From owner-rockhounds-digest@drizzle.com Sun Jan 21 15:44:28 2001 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 23:49:01 -0800 From: rockhounds-digest Reply-To: rockhounds@drizzle.com To: rockhounds-digest@drizzle.com Subject: rockhounds-digest V1 #757 rockhounds-digest Saturday, January 13 2001 Volume 01 : Number 757 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 08:34:45 -0500 From: "J Bryan Kramer" Subject: Re: Unusual question... mineralization via biological action Ah you haven't heard of sodium metasilicate I assume, it is very soluble in water. As are a number of other silica compounds. Bryan - ----- Original Message ----- > Quartz doesn't have to be igneous (how else can you explain geodes, for > one example), it can be metamorphic (hydrothermal/hydrothermal > replacement, or only pressure and heat as in {meta}quartzite). But I > doubt sedimentary other than by transport/deposition of particles > (sandstone). > > In either cold or hot (near boiling) water, all five forms of SiO2 are > insoluable, as is SiO (approximately STP conditions). HF will dissolve > it at normal conditions, but not much else. But trapped by heat and > pressure it must be at least slightly soluable. Its probably the only > explanation for most quartz forms found in sedimentary (and metamorphic) > formations. > > Now quartz is a good geologic thermometer. At 'normal' temperatures it > forms right or left handed rhombehedral crystals. At temperatures above > 573 degrees C it forms fully developed or paired rhombohedral crystals. > At temperatures above 870 C it forms platy orthorhombic crystals > (tridymite). And at above 1470 C it forms white cubic system crystals > (cristobalite). > > Anyone have info on soluability of SiO2 under pressure and heat in > water? Would this be sufficient, or would there have to be something > else present (fluorite anyone?) to help dissolve, transport, and > (re)deposit quartz? > > I don't think that the organic cause of the source of the dissolved > quartz is really relevant. It could as easily have been sandstone. Its > the unusual conditions. > > But these (hydrothermal) conditions seem to rule out stuff like opalized > wood, so there must still be some other method of formation. Any ideas? > > Kreigh Tomaszewski > > Mailto:Kreigh@Tomaszewski.net > Please visit our family web pages at http://Tomaszewski.net > > > Rockbusterpub@aol.com wrote: > > > > Keith, Kreigh and others, > > > > Although I will take no credit for proposing such a thing, I have > > had it > > suggested to me that perhaps the source of the silica which ultimately > > > > resulted in Herkimer Diamonds being formed could have been of a > > biological > > source. It is contantly being argued that the source was not igneous > > in > > nature. It has been established that the area where the Herkimers are > > found, > > was at one time a shallow sea. It is thought that "waters rich in > > silica > > content" were trapped in the pockets of the sedimentary sands of the > > sea bed, > > which later resulted in the Herkimers being formed by the pressure of > > an > > additional 3500 feet of sedimentary cover on top of this layer. > > Then, the question arises of what was the source of the high > > silica > > content of the water. One suggestion for this was that the sea bed > > was > > covered in millions of millions of little critters called > > "radialarians." > > These early form (late Cambrien) microscopic, simple cell structured, > > marine > > life had skeltons that were composed of silica. Furthermore, it is > > said that > > when they process foods, silica is a bi-product. In some sedimentary > > rocks, > > fossils of these radialarians can be observed in abundance, when using > > a > > microscope. > > So, theory is that the silica which resulted from these little > > guys > > could have been the source of the high silica content in the water. > > Just > > another theory.... > > > > Barry > > Rockbusters' Publishing > > http://rockbusterspub.com > ################################################################# > # Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing Alias: rockhounds@drizzle.com # > # Web: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/ # > # Subscription Services: majordomo@drizzle.com # > ################################################################# > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:48:03 EST From: FOSSILNUT@aol.com Subject: Re: Question, Rock and Mineral clubs - --part1_31.f10e11a.2791c4a3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the course of my career, my company has had us pick up stakes and move a number of times, so I've had the chance to join a number of clubs in different states. I've belonged to clubs in MD, DE, PA, FL, IL, & TX. My general impression is that most clubs welcome new members and if you can just get over the initial discomfort of meeting new people and getting to know them (and them to know you) you have an opportunity to make new friends while learning about the hobby. There is no doubt that some members will be suspicious of a "stranger" wanting to know all their best kept secrets, but in my experience all the secrets come out given time to build familiarity and trust. I will also say that every club is like a human body, it has it's brain, it's "Mouth" and it's "A--hole." Take the time to know "who's which!" Anyone living in travel distance to Wilmington, DE and interested in joining a club please contact me off list and I will take a personal interest in helping you join and feel comfortable in the Delaware Mineralogical Society. BTW, one of the surest ways to make a member for life is to ask newbies to help out. That gets them off the sidelines so they feel less excluded. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE - --part1_31.f10e11a.2791c4a3_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the course of my career, my company has had us pick up stakes and move a
number of times, so I've had the chance to join a number of clubs in
different states. I've belonged to clubs in MD, DE, PA, FL, IL, & TX. My
general impression is that most clubs welcome new members and if you can just
get over the initial discomfort of meeting new people and getting to know
them (and them to know you) you have an opportunity to make new friends while
learning about the hobby.

There is no doubt that some members will be suspicious of a "stranger"
wanting to know all their best kept secrets, but in my experience all the
secrets come out given time to build familiarity and trust. I will also say
that every club is like a human body, it has it's brain, it's "Mouth" and
it's "A--hole." Take the time to know "who's which!"

Anyone living in travel distance to Wilmington, DE and interested in joining
a club please contact me off list and I will take a personal interest in
helping you join and feel comfortable in the Delaware Mineralogical Society.
BTW, one of the surest ways to make a member for life is to ask newbies to
help out. That gets them off the sidelines so they feel less excluded.

Gene Hartstein
Newark, DE

- --part1_31.f10e11a.2791c4a3_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:05:23 -0500 From: Don Subject: Re: Question, Rock and Mineral clubs Well said, and I have been watching this thread with interest. Our club now has a "greeter," but any Executive Board member who sees a new face at the meeting is obligated to go to them, introduce themselves, and talk to the person a little bit. At the beginning of the business portion of the meeting, the President asks, "are there any guests here tonight? Would you stand up and introduce yourself, and tell us where you are from, and how you found out about the club?" He is also agressive about asking new people to take on tasks, and to my amazement that tactic has been quite successful. We also do a periodic club survey to find out the particular interests of club members. Our last two presidents have done a wonderful job with making our club more people-oriented and participatory. Don Halterman 1st VP, Delaware Valley Earth Science Society FOSSILNUT@aol.com wrote: > > In the course of my career, my company has had us pick up stakes and > move a > number of times, so I've had the chance to join a number of clubs in > different states. I've belonged to clubs in MD, DE, PA, FL, IL, & TX. > My > general impression is that most clubs welcome new members and if you > can just > get over the initial discomfort of meeting new people and getting to > know > them (and them to know you) you have an opportunity to make new > friends while > learning about the hobby. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 11:27:01 -0500 From: Carolyn & Steve Weinberger Subject: AFMS Newsletter I've just learned that the January issue of the AFMS Newsletter has not yet been mailed by the printer. Included in the issue is information about various AFMS programs including the All American Award program, Editors seminar at Quartzsite, new changes to the Uniform Rules and an invitation to enrol in the EFMLS Workshop for Certified Judges being held at Wildacres, NC this May and September. All is not lost however, as the issue has been posted to the AFMS website. Feel free to copy and use any or all of the material there. Carolyn Weinberger AFMS Editor ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:25:22 -0600 From: " The Dalys" Subject: Re: Question, Rock and Mineral clubs This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_00C8_01C07D4B.22A2FCE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jackie- Many years ago I belonged to two clubs in central NJ, and both were very = welcoming to newcomers. The New Jersey Mineral Society meets in Scotch = Plains- don't know exactly where anymore. The Morris Museum Mineral = Society meets in the Morris Museum in Morristown. They were especially = good on field trips. Give them a try! Jim ----- Original Message -----=20 From: CRAZYDOVE@aol.com=20 To: rockhounds@drizzle.com=20 Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 4:44 PM Subject: Re: Question, Rock and Mineral clubs My personal feelings about Rock/Mineral Clubs is this...I have played = with=20 the idea of joining one for years. BUT, being a complete novice as = far as=20 finding minerals out in the field, (I am fairly decent on mineral=20 identification, but still not more than a novice) I have stayed away = from=20 joining because I feel I would be "looked" down on..as being..too=20 inexperienced as opposed to the more venerable members, the ones that = have=20 been there, done that. And..not knowing anyone locally to sort of = ease me=20 into a club, I would be walking in as a complete stranger to everyone = there=20 and that would be really uncomfortable for me. =20 Jackie=20 - ------=_NextPart_000_00C8_01C07D4B.22A2FCE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jackie-
Many years ago I belonged to two clubs in central = NJ, and both=20 were very welcoming to newcomers. The New Jersey Mineral Society meets = in Scotch=20 Plains- don't know exactly where anymore. The Morris Museum Mineral = Society=20 meets in the Morris Museum in Morristown. They were especially good on = field=20 trips.
Give them a try!
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 CRAZYDOVE@aol.com
To: rockhounds@drizzle.com
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 = 4:44=20 PM
Subject: Re: Question, Rock and = Mineral=20 clubs

My personal feelings about Rock/Mineral = Clubs is=20 this...I have played with
the idea of joining one for years. =  BUT,=20 being a complete novice as far as
finding minerals out in the = field, (I am=20 fairly decent on mineral
identification, but still not more than a = novice)=20 I have stayed away from
joining because I feel I would be "looked" = down=20 on..as being..too
inexperienced as opposed to the more venerable = members,=20 the ones that have
been there, done that.  And..not knowing = anyone=20 locally to sort of ease me
into a club, I would be walking in as a = complete stranger to everyone there
and that would be really = uncomfortable=20 for me.  =20 =
           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =       Jackie=20 - ------=_NextPart_000_00C8_01C07D4B.22A2FCE0-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:21:47 -0800 (PST) From: Aaron Fox Subject: [BOUNCE] Re: Unusual question...mineralization via biological action Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 02:56:47 -0800 To: From: "Carol J. Bova" Subject: Re: Unusual question... mineralization via biological action Kreigh, Where do silica gels fit in? Not referring to quartz crystal formation, but chalcedony often forms in botryoidal forms that seem to be only possible from a gel formation. If you look at the chalcedony fire agate caps, for example, in the same piece of rock, the "bubbles" are at many angles to each other in the same occurrence of fire agate. And a second question: Why would hydrothermal conditions rule out opalized wood? Couldn't an ionic exchange of some sort under hydrothermal conditions be responsible for the rearrangement into opal from already silicified wood? Carol bova@bovagems.com At 11:36 PM 1/12/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Quartz doesn't have to be igneous (how else can you explain geodes, for >one example), it can be metamorphic (hydrothermal/hydrothermal >replacement, or only pressure and heat as in {meta}quartzite). But I >doubt sedimentary other than by transport/deposition of particles >(sandstone). > >In either cold or hot (near boiling) water, all five forms of SiO2 are >insoluable, as is SiO (approximately STP conditions). HF will dissolve >it at normal conditions, but not much else. But trapped by heat and >pressure it must be at least slightly soluable. Its probably the only >explanation for most quartz forms found in sedimentary (and metamorphic) >formations. > >Now quartz is a good geologic thermometer. At 'normal' temperatures it >forms right or left handed rhombehedral crystals. At temperatures above >573 degrees C it forms fully developed or paired rhombohedral crystals. >At temperatures above 870 C it forms platy orthorhombic crystals >(tridymite). And at above 1470 C it forms white cubic system crystals >(cristobalite). > >Anyone have info on soluability of SiO2 under pressure and heat in >water? Would this be sufficient, or would there have to be something >else present (fluorite anyone?) to help dissolve, transport, and >(re)deposit quartz? > >I don't think that the organic cause of the source of the dissolved >quartz is really relevant. It could as easily have been sandstone. Its >the unusual conditions. > >But these (hydrothermal) conditions seem to rule out stuff like opalized >wood, so there must still be some other method of formation. Any ideas? > >Kreigh Tomaszewski > >Mailto:Kreigh@Tomaszewski.net >Please visit our family web pages at http://Tomaszewski.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 11:15:58 -0600 From: " The Dalys" Subject: Re: Sending the virus was CERTAINLY not intentional. Once it infected my system, it sent to everyone I sent to, including lists. It had gotten past my virus scanning software (I've now switched) and it's taken me a week to disinfect my system and get back on line. Sorry for any inconvenience. Jim Daly - ----- Original Message ----- From: Teresa Masters To: Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 2:42 PM Subject: Re: > James Daly, > > I know you just sent a message saying you had just received the virus. I > just received a copy of it from you via Drizzle. > > Aaron, you there watching??? > It is the geocities free sites > > Did you mean to send this to the list? > Teresa > > ################################################################# > # Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing Alias: rockhounds@drizzle.com # > # Web: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/ # > # Subscription Services: majordomo@drizzle.com # > ################################################################# > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:06:13 -0800 From: "Lanny R. Ream" Subject: Sotheby's - Freilich The Freilich sale at Sotheby's was during the past two days. You can go to Sotheby's site and view the sales prices. (sothebys.com, click on calendar, click on Freilich mineral collection, click on view online catalog). The specimens sold at all possibilities: less than estimated, in the range, and more than. A few that sold at more than the estimated price really surprised me, the two chalcedony's, one for $18,000 (estimate was $6,500-8,000), a couple calcites, one with twins on spiky crystals sold for $34,000 (estimate of $12,000-18,000). There was one bug: a trilobite, Arctinurus boltoni, 6 " on 12" slab, sold for $15,600 (est. $3,000-4,000). You can take a look and draw your own conclusions. Some may not have sold, they don't have a sold at price. Lanny ********************************************* Lanny R. Ream - lanny@mineralnews.com Owner/Publisher - LR Ream Publishing Publisher of gem & mineral references and guides, Mineral News - printed and online, Mineral software: The Mineral Database and the Mineral-Periodical Index Visit our Web pages at http://www.mineralnews.com ****** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:35:55 -0500 From: Kreigh Tomaszewski Subject: Re: Unusual question... mineralization via biological action Sure, I've heard of 'water glass'. But that would require two formation issues. First, creation of the NaSiO3*9H2O, and then something to break it down so the SiO2 can crystalize, carrying the sodium away. Hydrothermal replacement is more difficult than simple transport and crystal growth from solution. Other silicon compounds have the same issues. Occam's razor suggests the more difficult process is (much) less likely than the simple explanation. But the universe we live in is a strange place, and 'Herks' are somewhat unique, so we may need to look for a less common cause than simple crystal growth from solution (even if under unusual conditions). Any suggestions on how a sodium metasilicate process would work to produce quartz crystals? Kreigh Tomaszewski Mailto:Kreigh@Tomaszewski.net Please visit our family web pages at http://Tomaszewski.net J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > Ah you haven't heard of sodium metasilicate I assume, it is very soluble in > water. As are a number of other silica compounds. > Bryan > ----- Original Message ----- > > > Quartz doesn't have to be igneous (how else can you explain geodes, for > > one example), it can be metamorphic (hydrothermal/hydrothermal > > replacement, or only pressure and heat as in {meta}quartzite). But I > > doubt sedimentary other than by transport/deposition of particles > > (sandstone). > > > > In either cold or hot (near boiling) water, all five forms of SiO2 are > > insoluable, as is SiO (approximately STP conditions). HF will dissolve > > it at normal conditions, but not much else. But trapped by heat and > > pressure it must be at least slightly soluable. Its probably the only > > explanation for most quartz forms found in sedimentary (and metamorphic) > > formations. > > > > Now quartz is a good geologic thermometer. At 'normal' temperatures it > > forms right or left handed rhombehedral crystals. At temperatures above > > 573 degrees C it forms fully developed or paired rhombohedral crystals. > > At temperatures above 870 C it forms platy orthorhombic crystals > > (tridymite). And at above 1470 C it forms white cubic system crystals > > (cristobalite). > > > > Anyone have info on soluability of SiO2 under pressure and heat in > > water? Would this be sufficient, or would there have to be something > > else present (fluorite anyone?) to help dissolve, transport, and > > (re)deposit quartz? > > > > I don't think that the organic cause of the source of the dissolved > > quartz is really relevant. It could as easily have been sandstone. Its > > the unusual conditions. > > > > But these (hydrothermal) conditions seem to rule out stuff like opalized > > wood, so there must still be some other method of formation. Any ideas? > > > > Kreigh Tomaszewski > > > > Mailto:Kreigh@Tomaszewski.net > > Please visit our family web pages at http://Tomaszewski.net > > > > > > Rockbusterpub@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > Keith, Kreigh and others, > > > > > > Although I will take no credit for proposing such a thing, I have > > > had it > > > suggested to me that perhaps the source of the silica which ultimately > > > > > > resulted in Herkimer Diamonds being formed could have been of a > > > biological > > > source. It is contantly being argued that the source was not igneous > > > in > > > nature. It has been established that the area where the Herkimers are > > > found, > > > was at one time a shallow sea. It is thought that "waters rich in > > > silica > > > content" were trapped in the pockets of the sedimentary sands of the > > > sea bed, > > > which later resulted in the Herkimers being formed by the pressure of > > > an > > > additional 3500 feet of sedimentary cover on top of this layer. > > > Then, the question arises of what was the source of the high > > > silica > > > content of the water. One suggestion for this was that the sea bed > > > was > > > covered in millions of millions of little critters called > > > "radialarians." > > > These early form (late Cambrien) microscopic, simple cell structured, > > > marine > > > life had skeltons that were composed of silica. Furthermore, it is > > > said that > > > when they process foods, silica is a bi-product. In some sedimentary > > > rocks, > > > fossils of these radialarians can be observed in abundance, when using > > > a > > > microscope. > > > So, theory is that the silica which resulted from these little > > > guys > > > could have been the source of the high silica content in the water. > > > Just > > > another theory.... > > > > > > Barry > > > Rockbusters' Publishing > > > http://rockbusterspub.com > > ################################################################# > > # Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing Alias: rockhounds@drizzle.com # > > # Web: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/ # > > # Subscription Services: majordomo@drizzle.com # > > ################################################################# > > > > > > ################################################################# > # Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing Alias: rockhounds@drizzle.com # > # Web: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/ # > # Subscription Services: majordomo@drizzle.com # > ################################################################# ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 14:45:53 -0400 From: Ronnie Van Dommelen Subject: Re: Question, Rock and Mineral clubs > I would like to take the other side and gather information on what clubs > do that discourages members from remaining or joining. Our club nearly went extinct because of beaurocracy: 1) The majority of every meeting was spent on business instead of rocks. We would discuss what we discussed last month, and what we should discuss next month, and never looked at minerals! 2) People lived by the club constitution. Some members said we couldn't make changes to the club because the constituition didn't allow for it - even though every member wanted to make the changes!? A club is just a group of people with similar interests. If you want to do something, do it, don't get bogged down by a piece of paper written years earlier that no longer meets the needs of the group. Later, - -- Ronnie Van Dommelen, PhD Candidate dommelen@is2.dal.ca, http://is2.dal.ca/~dommelen Photonics Applications Lab, http://www.optics.dal.ca Electrical and Computer Engineering, Dalhousie University ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:31:53 -0500 From: Leunens Subject: Lava rocks Hi, Being new at rock collecting, I have been cleaning rocks we picked up last fall on our property, we have found many in our gravel pit, we concentrated mostly on rocks covered with molted lava, how common are these rocks and how old could they be ?, we are surrounded by ski mountains but no information, if at one time they could have been volcanos. Pls. could someone answer my questions. Best Regards Victor ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 14:34:03 -0500 From: Kreigh Tomaszewski Subject: Re: [BOUNCE] Re: Sector growth I have an example of pyrite in fluorite where the inclusions are in a plane in the octahedron. It certainly seems to show that flourite octahedrons grow from the square middle towards the pyramid points. I've got a picture at http://Tomaszewski.net/Images/PyriteInFluorite.jpg It looks like the fluorite crystal partially formed __ / \ \__/ and they pyrite grew on the flat top and bottom, and then the octahedron finished forming /\ / \ \ / \/ Not the best picture, but you might find it interesting. Kreigh Tomaszewski Mailto:Kreigh@Tomaszewski.net Please visit our family web pages at http://Tomaszewski.net mysfit@mindspring.com wrote: > > The speed of crystallization would have an impact as it can change the segregation coefficient(which is what determines how quickly a given impurity is incorporated into the crystal). While this change may be minor, it is there. > > I have worked in growing silicon and GaAs single crystals. In both cases, specfic impurities are added with the desire to achieve a uniform crystal (radially) and the degree to which the rate of freezing affects the segregation coefficient is often hotly debated......my experinece indicates the effect is not negligible > > ################################################################# > # Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing Alias: rockhounds@drizzle.com # > # Web: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/ # > # Subscription Services: majordomo@drizzle.com # > ################################################################# ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 16:13:50 EST From: JScully216@aol.com Subject: Ad: Updated Web Site Hi, Since you last heard from me on a commercial note, I've moved to Albuquerque, NM from West Virginia and will resume my business here. I've updated my website and added some new crystals found at the Himalaya Mine this December. I'll be adding more after Tucson. See also information re. two mining claims here in NM. http://www.feraloldguy.com. (-: Thanks John Scully ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 16:21:24 -0500 From: "Dan Z" Subject: Re: Lava rocks It would help to know your locality. However it sounds like you are more likely finding the residue from an old iron smelter. Iron used to be separated from the rock constituting the ore by literally melting the rock The heavier iron would sink, and would be drained off from the bottom of the smelter into molds. Then the remaining molten material was usually just dumped near by. The name for this rehardened material is "slag" or "slag glass," and depending on the minerals involved can often be quite colorful. - -dan- - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leunens" To: Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 13:31 Subject: Lava rocks > Hi, > Being new at rock collecting, I have been cleaning rocks we picked up > last fall on our property, we have found many in our gravel pit, we > concentrated mostly on rocks covered with molted lava, how common are > these rocks and how old could they be ?, we are surrounded by ski > mountains but no information, if at one time they could have been > volcanos. > Pls. could someone answer my questions. > Best Regards > Victor > > ################################################################# > # Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing Alias: rockhounds@drizzle.com # > # Web: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/ # > # Subscription Services: majordomo@drizzle.com # > ################################################################# > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 16:56:06 EST From: Jhbnyc@aol.com Subject: Re: Sotheby's - Freilich I just came from the Freilich auction a Sotheby's. Very interesting... A few observations: - - The audience was a diverse mix of high-end mineral dealers, serious collectors, museum curators, tourists and locals checking out the action, Wall Street junior executives, and Sotheby's regulars. - - The prices listed by Sotheby's was the estimated sale price - not the reserve price as some mistakenly thought. - - In general, the reserve price on each lot was about 50% the minimum estimate. - - Out of 433 mineral lots, 166 did not make the reserve price and did not sell. These were in all price ranges and not just limited to the expensive items. Sotheby's has 30 days to sell these privately. - - The book collection was much more successful and brought in over $9 million. - - Several items exceeded the maximum estimate. This occurred when there were two bidders competing for an item. - - The big pyrite from Peru, which many exclaimed was way overvalued, exceeded the maximum estimate and sold for $65,000 (to a well known mineral dealer). - - At least one specimen was bought back by the collector that originally sold it to Freilich (for about half the price he sold it for). - - There were some bargains, and many purchasers were delighted (myself included). John Betts www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 17:45:22 -0500 From: Kreigh Tomaszewski Subject: Re: Unusual question...mineralization via biological action Carol (and list), The original question had to do with the formation of 'Herks', a beta quartz that forms between 573 and 870 C. Some other mechanism is needed for opalized wood because the logs would not survive the approach to those temperatures. But you ask some relevant questions, so let me try to widen the field. ... The Silicates are broken down to Silica (framework structure), Disilicates (sheets), Metasilicates (chains), Pyrosilicate (isolated tetrahedra groups), Orthosilicates (single tetrahedra), and Subsilicates (Isoloated tetrahedra w/ extra O). Quartz is the primary member of the Silica Group. Quartz has a number of forms, suggesting different methods of formation. * Crystalized quartz - often occurs as large, well formed crystals, but also as a druze or crust (of well formed crystals). Impurities produce varieties such as amethyst, smoky, citrine, and milky quartz. Formation temperature also affects variety as in tridymite and cristobalite. * Veins of quartz - often milky or rose (which is a special case), seldom with well formed crystals. * Chalcedony - microcrystallized quartz with individual crystals arranged as slender fibers in (roughly) parallel bands. Often botryoidal. Impurity banding gives agate. Ordered arrangement of the fibers (end point) surface face probably produces the 'fire' agate. * Chert/Flint/Jasper - microcrystallized quartz with a heterogeneous/granular structure. Seldom transparent due to higer levels of impurity. * Opal - microscopic spheres; jumbled together you get common opal (and opalized wood?), arranged into metacrystalline arrangements you get precious opal and play of color ('fire'). Matrix color from impurities, and possibly sphere size. I just have problems fitting all these types of quartz into the same methods of formation. But opalized wood, and maybe opal, seems most likely to have a biological component (think of plankton or bacteria making microscopic silica pearls). Any agate, flint, or jasper experts out there who can throw some light on formation of the non-crystalized quartz varieties? Kreigh Tomaszewski Mailto:Kreigh@Tomaszewski.net Please visit our family web pages at http://Tomaszewski.net Aaron Fox wrote: > > Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 02:56:47 -0800 > To: > From: "Carol J. Bova" > Subject: Re: Unusual question... mineralization via biological action > > Kreigh, > Where do silica gels fit in? Not referring to quartz crystal formation, > but chalcedony often forms in botryoidal forms that seem to be only > possible from a gel formation. If you look at the chalcedony fire agate > caps, for example, in the same piece of rock, the "bubbles" are at many > angles to each other in the same occurrence of fire agate. > > And a second question: Why would hydrothermal conditions rule out opalized > wood? Couldn't an ionic exchange of some sort under hydrothermal conditions > be responsible for the rearrangement into opal from already silicified wood? > Carol > bova@bovagems.com > > At 11:36 PM 1/12/2001 -0500, you wrote: > >Quartz doesn't have to be igneous (how else can you explain geodes, for > >one example), it can be metamorphic (hydrothermal/hydrothermal > >replacement, or only pressure and heat as in {meta}quartzite). But I > >doubt sedimentary other than by transport/deposition of particles > >(sandstone). > > > >In either cold or hot (near boiling) water, all five forms of SiO2 are > >insoluable, as is SiO (approximately STP conditions). HF will dissolve > >it at normal conditions, but not much else. But trapped by heat and > >pressure it must be at least slightly soluable. Its probably the only > >explanation for most quartz forms found in sedimentary (and metamorphic) > >formations. > > > >Now quartz is a good geologic thermometer. At 'normal' temperatures it > >forms right or left handed rhombehedral crystals. At temperatures above > >573 degrees C it forms fully developed or paired rhombohedral crystals. > >At temperatures above 870 C it forms platy orthorhombic crystals > >(tridymite). And at above 1470 C it forms white cubic system crystals > >(cristobalite). > > > >Anyone have info on soluability of SiO2 under pressure and heat in > >water? Would this be sufficient, or would there have to be something > >else present (fluorite anyone?) to help dissolve, transport, and > >(re)deposit quartz? > > > >I don't think that the organic cause of the source of the dissolved > >quartz is really relevant. It could as easily have been sandstone. Its > >the unusual conditions. > > > >But these (hydrothermal) conditions seem to rule out stuff like opalized > >wood, so there must still be some other method of formation. Any ideas? > > > >Kreigh Tomaszewski > > > >Mailto:Kreigh@Tomaszewski.net > >Please visit our family web pages at http://Tomaszewski.net > > ################################################################# > # Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing Alias: rockhounds@drizzle.com # > # Web: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/ # > # Subscription Services: majordomo@drizzle.com # > ################################################################# ------------------------------ End of rockhounds-digest V1 #757 ******************************** ################################################################# # To subscribe or unsubscribe to the Rockhoundz List, send mail # # to with the following keys: # # subscribe rockhounds (or) unsubscribe rockhounds # # rockhounds@drizzle.com | http://callisto.golder.com/rockhoundz# #################################################################