From owner-rockhounds-digest@drizzle.com Sun Feb 24 17:57:58 2002 Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 23:16:01 -0800 From: rockhounds-digest Reply-To: rockhounds@drizzle.com To: rockhounds-digest@drizzle.com Subject: rockhounds-digest V2 #1216 rockhounds-digest Friday, February 22 2002 Volume 02 : Number 1216 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:24:44 -0500 From: George Campbell Subject: My Tucson Story Message text written by INTERNET:rockhounds@drizzle.com >The tent and tables cost $6200, the Ryder truck (both going and coming) cost $2150, the motel was $2000 and I have no idea what our food cost for 24 days. We sold enough crystal to pay ALL expenses and probably lost $5000 by not being home to fill internet sale orders. < Hi, That's a large nut for a show. I can't even imagine risking that kind of money. I go to Tucson every year for a few days, but to buy specimens to sell on my site. It wears me out, just doing that. George Campbell OsoSoft Mineral Connection http://www.osomin.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:30:11 -0500 From: Anita Westlake Subject: Re: Pyrite Disease - New Age Physticism I don't know if I can believe all this quantum physics stuff. I've been willing myself home all day and as far as I can tell, I'm still at work. Maybe my particles aren't excited enough? Anita Tim Fisher wrote: > A corollary effect has been observed in the teleportation research now > occurring. The probability that the particle has moved in space can be > influenced, as can the place to where it has moved. Therefore you can > theoretically will it to be in the drawer, or anywhere else for that > matter. No joke (saw the article in Science). Also, there is a finite > probability that the particle got sucked into the quantum foam and > disappeared down a wormhole to another time/place/parallel universe. > See Crichton's book of a few years ago; he based it on current > research. Therefore your parallel self in another universe may have > your missing specimen, or you may have it in the future (or the past, > which is its own special conundrum, since you DID have it in the > past). Send yourself an email; it the email doesn't arrive, it > probably went to one of your parallel selves, and you just might get > it back ;) > > At 01:51 PM 2/22/2002 -0500, you wrote: > >> In a message dated 2/22/02 5:03:21 AM Pacific Standard Time, >> libawc@emory.edu >> writes: >> >> > Well, I spoke too soon. I was bragging ... >> > >> > Any other ideas? >> >> You are neglecting the power of the written word. By stating so >> forcefully >> that you don't have problems, you created a negative space that the >> marcasite >> probability cloud could move into. In the closed drawer, unobserved, >> the >> ball was in an indeterminate quantum state. Neither diseased nor >> healthy but >> rather in a nebulous undecided state. Only when you opened the >> drawer and >> forced the probability cloud to collapse into a single state was the >> influence of your rash statement observable. >> >> I like to think of these things like Salvador Dali's famous clock. >> If you >> ask, where is the minute hand, it might be up at the top in a normal >> flat >> state. If you look at a different time it might be over the edge in the >> droopy second state. You never know before you look where the hand >> will be, >> so you can't know whether the hand will be droopy or not. The >> position of >> the clock as a whole can be shifted either way over the edge to >> represent the >> relative probabilities of the two states. By making such a rash >> statement >> you pushed the clock a little farther over the edge, farther into >> droopiness. >> Then, when you looked, the hand was droopy. It might still have been >> normal, but the fraction of time (the probability) was decreased. >> >> Next time you are so bold, be sure to knock on wood, as the sound >> waves can >> penetrate into the closed drawer and counteract the ill effects on the >> probability distribution function. >> >> Flint >> >> PS, One more interesting quantum effect is tunneling. Tunneling is >> related >> to the particle-in-a-box experiment which is a basic quantum mechanics >> example. Basically, it goes like this: If a particle is moving back >> and >> forth at an unknown speed inside a box, you can't know where it is. >> You can >> however calculate the probability of it being at any particular >> location. >> When you use the full power of QM to do this, you find a very >> interesting >> phenomenon: There is a calculated possibility that the particle will be >> OUTSIDE the box!! Of course, the farther from the box, the lower the >> chance >> of finding the particle. >> >> This is a real, observed phenomenon used in tunneling microscopes. >> Electrons >> mystically jump from the end of a needle to arrive on a nearby >> sample. How >> often they make the jump is dependent on the distance to be jumped. By >> measuring the current flow you can measure the distance. Then by >> scanning >> back and forth over the surface you can build up a 3D map of the >> surface. >> >> This is related to your mineral specimen problem in a way that we >> have all >> experienced. Many times we place an item in a known location, say in a >> drawer, then leave it unobserved. Later, when we open the drawer, we >> almost >> always find it has just moved a little forward or back in the drawer. >> More >> rarely, we find the item missing. Sometimes we can locate the item, >> usually >> in the drawer above or below, maybe resting on the top of the >> cabinet It is >> natural to expand the search outward from the center of the location >> probability cloud toward the fringes. Our brains are accustomed to >> these >> physics effects and adjust without question. >> >> Again, the written word has been shown to have immense power. A >> simple note >> to the effect that you had placed the sample in such-and-such drawer >> shifts >> the Dali clock much farther up onto the table. >> >> New age Physticism does not, to my knowledge, have a good explanation >> for >> where samples go when they move and fully disappear from the plane of >> existence -F >> ################################################################# >> # Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing Alias: rockhounds@drizzle.com # >> # Web: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/ # >> # Subscription Services: majordomo@drizzle.com # >> ################################################################# > > > Tim Fisher > Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site > Owner, Fisher Fisheries, Ltd. > mailto:tim@OreRockOn.com > WWW http://OreRockOn.com > > ################################################################# > # Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing Alias: rockhounds@drizzle.com # > # Web: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/ # > # Subscription Services: majordomo@drizzle.com # > ################################################################# ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:20:26 -0800 From: Teresa A Masters Subject: Re: My Tucson Story Stuart, Thank you for sharing your specific Tucson experience with the list. You are not alone in your expressed position with reference to Internet sales. There is also adequate support from Rock and Mineral clubs as well as Federations. Club shows now experience difficulty in filling dealer tables. Not every club of course, but many. Quite a few dealers have found they can net a reasonable sum selling on Internet. Exactly the reasons and costs you mention no longer need to be factored in. Easier bookkeeping too. Several years ago at an Earth Sciences Seminar, I met a well known dealer who in less than five months selling on Internet was able to cut back the number of shows necessary for the same income. She was then predicting the back breaking scenario of loading, unloading, set up, break down, loading and unloading in addition to driving, housing and food costs, would be limited to a couple of shows a year. I no longer see them where they were anchor dealers in the not too distant past. Stuart, I did not get to see you as planned as the driving, cold rain and ankle deep mud kept me from the Howard Johnson venue, sorry about that. In closing, you are to be applauded for your honesty, it may help some make a more informed decision. I know from personal observation, dealer participation as well as buyer, was less than last year for example and most likely will continue to retrench for a while. The criticism, take it from where it comes, I too expect my usual bashing ;-) . Teresa ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:32:39 -0800 From: Teresa A Masters Subject: Hans and the Bays A short time ago I was able to meet Hans at Carol Bova's Rock Yard Sale. His material looks even better in hand. We were treated to a slide show with Hans doing the narrating, and that did lead to some prodigious salivating. I do believe that is a rock field trip of dreams. Natural phenomena abounds. I think I would hope for a good storm the day before my visit. Well might as well dream all the way. Thanks Hans, Teresa ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 17:14:16 -0500 From: George Campbell Subject: Re: My Tucson Story A few more notes from a non-show dealer: When I started out as a mineral dealer, I started directly on the Internet. >From time to time, I've considered doing shows, but have always decided against it. The cost of travelling to the shows, the labor of packing up and unpacking specimens twice for each show, and the need to leave my one-person web site for several days has always led me to decide against selling at shows...even my local ones. While the Internet is not always an ideal way to make specimens available, or to purchase minerals, it makes a lot of sense for small dealers who are willing to invest the time to create and maintain an active website. For customers, the advantages of the Internet are obvious. They can view a wide variety of specimens, compare prices, and decide what to buy from the comfort of their home. They don't have to go to a local show and be disappointed at the variety of specimens available, nor do they have to travel to Tucson, Denver, or elsewhere to find some competition for the minerals they want to buy. If a collector is seeking, say, a nice specimen of cavansite, he or she can see dozens of specimens in all price ranges in just a short time. At a local show, he or she might find one dealer with a specimen or two of the mineral. It gets even more complicated when you are looking for really scarce material. I don't know about the lapidary rough marketplace, to tell the truth, so that may well be a different market for customers at shows vs. the Internet, but I know that the mineral collector seeking specimens will find a wider variety online than they every will find, even at the largest shows. That said, I go to shows myself, as a customer. That's where I get much of the stock I sell on my website. I look for real bargains, and buy in quantity from dealers who are looking to sell at wholesale prices. My prices are controlled by both the price I pay and the competition from the dozens of other mineral dealers on the Internet. I know that some people have been burned on deals from some Internet dealers, but the dealers that have been around for a few years online are honest and good business folks, for the most part. I depend on customers coming back again and again to buy specimens, so I have to provide good specimens at good prices, ship promptly, and accept returns and make refunds immediately. Otherwise, my customers would go elsewhere. Personally, I hope the shows go on forever. That's where I meet my colleagues and friends. That's where I buy my stock. That's where I learn about what's new and what's coming up. But I'll continue to go to them as a buyer, not a seller. It's a heckuva lot more fun to shop at a show than to deal at a show. Somewhere there's a happy balance, I'm sure. Best wishes, George Campbell OsoSoft Mineral Connection ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 16:36:48 -0600 From: "kevin k conroy" Subject: Re: My Tucson Story Hi Stuart! Please don't be discouraged about your first Tucson show. It takes a while to become established at some of these shows. When I was selling at the Tucson and Denver shows I mainly had specimens form the Viburnum Trend. Several other folks did too. Through the years I developed very good friendships with a lot of my customers, and although sometimes some other folks may have had a little lower price my customers still came to me. Likewise, I know that sometimes my prices were lower for the exact same quality specimens as some of the other folks but their steady customers went to them. And I think that's great! There's a lot to be said for the friendships you develop over the years. Your friends, even if they don't buy a single specimen from you, add to the enjoyment of going to the big shows. It's not just a sales event. It's an opportunity for a lot of folks with the same interest to get together for a few days on vacation and have some fun. Hopefully you had a chance to get away from the show to see some of the stuff that's nearby Tucson. Many of the museums, parks, scenery, and old mining towns just add to the whole event. Now that you've got your feet wet and know the ropes, I would give it at least one more shot before scratching it from the show schedule. All the best, Kevin www.kcminerals.com - -----Original Message----- From: Stuart Schmitt To: rockhounds@drizzle.com Date: Friday, February 22, 2002 11:40 AM Subject: My Tucson Story > We're finally back home in Arkansas after sitting in a 30 x 50 tent at >Howard Johnson's in Tucson for three weeks trying to sell quartz crystals. >We got snowed on, rained on, covered with dust, got sick with the Tucson >crud and were pestered by Rainbows, beggars, the homeless, and all kinds of >assorted weird people who wanted something for nothing. The tent and tables >cost $6200, the Ryder truck (both going and coming) cost $2150, the motel >was $2000 and I have no idea what our food cost for 24 days. We sold enough >crystal to pay ALL expenses and probably lost $5000 by not being home to >fill internet sale orders. Tucson was a great lesson on how not to do >business. I predict that trade shows (like the Tucson Gem & Mineral Shows) >will be extinct in 10 years due to the Internet business. These shows are >just too costly for the vendors and the big wholesale buyers (importers & >exporters) just aren't there any more. The Internet is cutting the middle >men out of business because individuals and the smaller Mom & Pop shops can >buy direct from the sources. > While I'm still coughing up the Tucson dust, the sweet smell of clean >Arkansas air is cleansing my lungs. The crappie should be biting soon and >I'm getting ready to turn the garden under for Spring planting. > I would be interested in hearing comments from other vendors who were >at Tucson. > >With appreciation & gratitude, >Stuart Schmitt >Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine >www.arcrystalmine.com >60 Mary's Eagle Trail >Mount Ida, AR 71957 >(870) 867-2443 > > > >################################################################# ># Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing Alias: rockhounds@drizzle.com # ># Web: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/ # ># Subscription Services: majordomo@drizzle.com # >################################################################# > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 17:46:14 -0500 From: "Paul Hewitt" Subject: Re: My Tucson Story Thanks for the great insight George. I have been burned by a couple of website dealers that sold me substandard materials online. I wont mention any names but I bought some flourite that was advertised as "dime to quarter sized pieces" but when I got my 5 lbs at least 3 lbs of it was pea size or smaller. Admittedly there were some nice pieces in the bunch but I was disappointed at the overall size of the material. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Campbell" To: Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 17:14 Subject: Re: My Tucson Story > A few more notes from a non-show dealer: > > When I started out as a mineral dealer, I started directly on the Internet. > From time to time, I've considered doing shows, but have always decided > against it. The cost of travelling to the shows, the labor of packing up > and unpacking specimens twice for each show, and the need to leave my > one-person web site for several days has always led me to decide against > selling at shows...even my local ones. > > While the Internet is not always an ideal way to make specimens available, > or to purchase minerals, it makes a lot of sense for small dealers who are > willing to invest the time to create and maintain an active website. For > customers, the advantages of the Internet are obvious. They can view a wide > variety of specimens, compare prices, and decide what to buy from the > comfort of their home. > > They don't have to go to a local show and be disappointed at the variety of > specimens available, nor do they have to travel to Tucson, Denver, or > elsewhere to find some competition for the minerals they want to buy. If a > collector is seeking, say, a nice specimen of cavansite, he or she can see > dozens of specimens in all price ranges in just a short time. At a local > show, he or she might find one dealer with a specimen or two of the > mineral. It gets even more complicated when you are looking for really > scarce material. > > I don't know about the lapidary rough marketplace, to tell the truth, so > that may well be a different market for customers at shows vs. the > Internet, but I know that the mineral collector seeking specimens will find > a wider variety online than they every will find, even at the largest > shows. > > That said, I go to shows myself, as a customer. That's where I get much of > the stock I sell on my website. I look for real bargains, and buy in > quantity from dealers who are looking to sell at wholesale prices. My > prices are controlled by both the price I pay and the competition from the > dozens of other mineral dealers on the Internet. > > I know that some people have been burned on deals from some Internet > dealers, but the dealers that have been around for a few years online are > honest and good business folks, for the most part. I depend on customers > coming back again and again to buy specimens, so I have to provide good > specimens at good prices, ship promptly, and accept returns and make > refunds immediately. Otherwise, my customers would go elsewhere. > > Personally, I hope the shows go on forever. That's where I meet my > colleagues and friends. That's where I buy my stock. That's where I learn > about what's new and what's coming up. But I'll continue to go to them as a > buyer, not a seller. It's a heckuva lot more fun to shop at a show than to > deal at a show. > > Somewhere there's a happy balance, I'm sure. > > Best wishes, > > George Campbell > OsoSoft Mineral Connection > ################################################################# > # Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing Alias: rockhounds@drizzle.com # > # Web: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/ # > # Subscription Services: majordomo@drizzle.com # > ################################################################# ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 00:32:44 +0000 From: agate13727@att.net Subject: Re: My Tucson Story I am not a dealer. I did spend 10 days at Tucson and had a great time. I bought som material and looked at much more. It is a great experience. I have noticed, over recent years, that more and more dealers have set up in permanent locations. While they are only open during the shows, they avoid the unpacking and repacking problem as well as hauling unsold items back home. Hugh ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 23:18:26 -0700 From: John McLaughlin Subject: Re: My Tucson Story Stuart Schmitt wrote: > We're finally back home in Arkansas after sitting in a 30 x 50 tent at Howard > Johnson's in Tucson for three weeks trying to sell quartz crystals. . . . .We > sold enough crystal to pay ALL expenses and probably lost $5000 by not being > home to fill internet sale orders. Hi Stuart, I am sorry I did not get as far as the Howard Johnson to say hello. One of the things about doing shows that you might consider is that it can work with your internet business. Customers who meet you and like your prices and quality may be more apt to do business with you over the internet, at least that's my own experience as a buyer. I buy a lot of the material I need for the year in Tucson and spend much of my time making contacts with the folks who can supply me with my more frequent needs. I also tend to visit the same vendors that gave me good prices and products year after year. I suspect that, like any business, repeat customers help a lot in Tucson. All that being said, there are a number of Mt. Ida area crystal dealers at the shows. It has to be hard to distinguish your crystals from others without cutting the profit. As an Arizonan, I apologize for the snow. It had been ordered for earlier in January and, due to scheduling difficulties, was delayed. Those of us who have lived on the low desert most of our lives were out in the hills that got snow playing, which also caused a reduction in traffic for you. Thanks for your Tucson reports. I have never done a show longer than three days and can't imagine what it would be like doing Tucson. Your write ups were very interesting The motel rooms are no fun, food at the shows is not great and there are no great restaurants close to the Howard Johnsons. That has to make the internet look great. John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona jemstone@amug.org ------------------------------ End of rockhounds-digest V2 #1216 ********************************* ################################################################# # Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing Alias: rockhounds@drizzle.com # # Web: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/ # # Subscription Services: majordomo@drizzle.com # #################################################################