From owner-rockhounds-digest@drizzle.com Wed Apr 17 20:52:44 2002 Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 23:16:02 -0800 From: rockhounds-digest Reply-To: rockhounds@drizzle.com To: rockhounds-digest@drizzle.com Subject: rockhounds-digest V2 #1219 rockhounds-digest Monday, February 25 2002 Volume 02 : Number 1219 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 07:56:09 -0500 From: "earl verbeek" Subject: Re: My Tucson Story "I was lucky enough to actually dig at your mine last year. The over 30 DT and small DT clusters I came back with are some of my most prized rocks in my collection." Uhh, whazziz these DT things? Abbreviation for what? To us beer-drinking geologists (yes, I know that's redundant) DT can only mean "delirium tremens". Oh, I suppose you mean "doubly terminated", right? (After 25 years of dealing with abbreviations and acronyms in the federal government I have grown quite averse to them. We had a list of more than 800 acronyms in use at the Nevada Test Site . . .) cheers- Earl _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 09:10:14 -0400 From: Ronnie Van Dommelen Subject: Two Questions Hi All,

I have two questions about some worldwide material that is currently on the market.

1) I had a chance to see about half a dozen of the new poldervaartite specimens. Each
one, in addition to the poldervaartite, had tiny sprays of delicate white crystals. Does
anyone know what these are?

2) On a few of the garnet and smoky quartz specimens from China, there are small
colorless crystals. They are quite complex with many faces. Again, is anyone familiar
with these?

Later,

-- 
Ronnie Van Dommelen, PhD Candidate
dommelen@is2.dal.ca, http://is2.dal.ca/~dommelen
Photonics Applications Lab, http://www.optics.ee.dal.ca
Electrical and Computer Engineering, Dalhousie University

------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 08:49:36 EST From: ANNWB2@aol.com Subject: Re: Indiana Pyrite vs. marcasite disease Thanks for the info on the location with two names. Am currently formating my USA list for a database so I can get the USA website going. The literature is full of locality data for which there is insufficient explanation. I've indexed magazines in which a long fieldtrip discusses what was found and it is impossible to tell which locality produced the minerals listed. Some are a little less obscure. The most frequent label I've seen back East is: Marcasite, Pleasant Ridge quarry, Rensselaer, Indiana. Is this accurate? From other specimens I've seen, I was mistakenly led to believe that there was a similar quarry in Pleasant Ridge as well. In the East, every spot of land is in a town or township, occasionally a Burrough, etc. and some states have the same term for a governmental division that the adjoining state uses for a different kind of division. Van ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 09:30:02 EST From: ANNWB2@aol.com Subject: Re: My Tucson Story Speaking of the Nevada Bomb Test Site. When I was at Ward's, the U. S. senate wanted a mounted board with typical rocks from sites where there was consideration of a nuclear waste repository. There were four rock types requested including the rock type from "Site J-51" at the Nevada bomb test site. I called a geologist I knew and he shipped me a couple of hundred kilos, or whatever was needed to fill the order and labeled the rock appropriately. The purchasing agent for the senate sent Ward's the polished mahogany boards (about 25 x 20 cm) and the rocks were cut to uniform shape, ground flat and glued to the board with brass tags, as I remember it, below each sample. There was also a chunk of salt, granite, and basalt to compliment the J-51 treasure. This little collection might be given to you from your local senator, just for the asking. The CIA, or some other agency, called to find out how Ward's managed to get the J-51 rock as it was from a high-security clearance area. They were happy with the response, but a bit bemused about the process. (I never did ask if the rock was actually from the J-51 area or if the geologist sent an equivalent from a layer not on the base. Guess I'll never know.) Van ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 08:54:02 -0600 From: "Jim Daly" Subject: Re: Indiana Pyrite vs. marcasite disease It's the Rensselear Stone Co. quarry at Pleasant Ridge, IN. There's also anther quarry, still open, south of Rensselaer, but I don't recall the name of it. The Pleasant Ridge one is closed and flooded now. Jim - ----- Original Message ----- From: Stan Perry To: ; Kevin Conroy Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 11:05 AM Subject: Indiana Pyrite vs. marcasite disease > Hi All, > > I believe the Rensselaer and Pleasant Ridge quarry in > Indiana, USA location is one and the same. The quarry > is between the two towns and slightly closer to > Rensslaer. I was told the reason some use Pleasant > Ridge is you don't have to double check your spelling > every time you write it. I never collected there but > plenty of folks from St. Louis did. They say you got > covered with oil so they took disposable clothing. > Kevin Conroy may help out with this as I know he > collected there many a time. > > Regards, > Stan > > > The marcasite from Rensselaer, Indiana seems > > relatively stable, but that > > material is thoroughly impreganted with varios > > bitumens. My Pleasant Ridge > > marcasite has some white powder, however. The > > difference may reflct the > > "history" of the specimen. > > > ===== > Stan Perry > Our Gangue Minerals > www.emineralshow.com > Ebay seller ID rgangue > e-mail at rgangue@yahoo.com > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games > http://sports.yahoo.com > ################################################################# > # Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing Alias: rockhounds@drizzle.com # > # Web: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/ # > # Subscription Services: majordomo@drizzle.com # > ################################################################# > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 09:04:06 -0600 From: "Jim Daly" Subject: Re: Indiana Pyrite vs. marcasite disease Correct- you might add Jasper County for more detail. Jim - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 7:49 AM Subject: Re: Indiana Pyrite vs. marcasite disease > Thanks for the info on the location with two names. Am currently formating my > USA list for a database so I can get the USA website going. The literature is > full of locality data for which there is insufficient explanation. I've > indexed magazines in which a long fieldtrip discusses what was found and it > is impossible to tell which locality produced the minerals listed. Some are a > little less obscure. > > The most frequent label I've seen back East is: Marcasite, Pleasant Ridge > quarry, Rensselaer, Indiana. Is this accurate? From other specimens I've > seen, I was mistakenly led to believe that there was a similar quarry in > Pleasant Ridge as well. In the East, every spot of land is in a town or > township, occasionally a Burrough, etc. and some states have the same term > for a governmental division that the adjoining state uses for a different > kind of division. > > Van > ################################################################# > # Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing Alias: rockhounds@drizzle.com # > # Web: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/ # > # Subscription Services: majordomo@drizzle.com # > ################################################################# > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 15:57:26 +0100 From: Juergen Wachsmuth Subject: Re: Northern Italy Dear Nathan, the University of Padua is the home of a great mineralogical museum, Corso Garibaldi 37. Foundation in the 18th century. Especially the alpine collection dating back to the author G. Gasser (Die Mineralien Tirols, 1913) is famous. Unfortunately I do not know about opening times. Maybe it is wise to ask for an appointment. More good mineralogical museums are located in Trento and Bergamo. Good luck Jürgen Wachsmuth Ulm - Germany Nathan C. Martin II schrieb: > Later this spring I will be fortunate enough to spend several days in the > northern portion of Italy, including the towns of Venice, Padua and > Bolzano. Although my wife has decreed I will not have an opportunity to do > any field collecting, I would be interested in knowing about any museums > with good mineral displays or any mineral dealers that might be in any of > these three towns. I know that there is a museum of natural history in > Venice and that it has a fossil display, but I have not found any reference > to mineral specimen displays. If anyone on the list has any suggestions, I > would be pleased to receive them. > > Best regards, > Nathan Martin > Lexington, MA, USA > > ################################################################# > # Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing Alias: rockhounds@drizzle.com # > # Web: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/ # > # Subscription Services: majordomo@drizzle.com # > ################################################################# ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 09:33:25 -0600 From: Gary Brown Subject: Re: results of MAS MILS CD Yes... that drove me NUTS when I first converted the data for Street Atlas 1.0, lo those many years ago. I kept thinking there was something way off in my conversion program until I looked at the raw MasMils USBM data and realized that the fault was with that, and not with the conversion. "GIGO" as they say . I think most of the error in there is "wetware" errors that were introduced Way Back When during the creation of the original MasMils data. Some states seem to have locations that, when plotted on the DeLorme base, are within an inch of the "real" site. Others have a bias error for the whole state (dataum bias, eh?). Others are variable...usually "out east" where there are a tonne of very old locations with somewhat dubious information. The locations are PRECISE to four decimal places. However, the ACCURACY is at times '"iffy". (Hey, this is a great example of the difference between precise and accurate!). Gc "don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger" B At 05:58 PM 2/24/2002 -0800, you wrote: >Bob wrote: > I'm thinking that my GPS unit and >mapping software are using a different datum than the Mas/Mils CD data. >Does anyone know what datum the Mas/Mils CD is using?< > >Judging from some of the locations that I've seen, there are a lot of >mistakes, or outright fabrications in some of the data. Some mines plot in a >different countty, and there are even a few in the Atlantic. > >regards, >Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:53:15 -0500 From: "Barwood, Henry L" Subject: RE: results of MAS MILS CD Hi Gary, A lot of the early data was based on NAD 27 coordinates and may be as much as a few miles off unless converted. We ran into the same problem with lots of GIS layers. Obviously human error can contribute to the data believability as well. Henry - -----Original Message----- From: Gary Brown [mailto:catspaw@skypoint.com] Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 10:33 AM To: rockhounds@drizzle.com Subject: Re: results of MAS MILS CD Yes... that drove me NUTS when I first converted the data for Street Atlas 1.0, lo those many years ago. I kept thinking there was something way off in my conversion program until I looked at the raw MasMils USBM data and realized that the fault was with that, and not with the conversion. "GIGO" as they say . I think most of the error in there is "wetware" errors that were introduced Way Back When during the creation of the original MasMils data. Some states seem to have locations that, when plotted on the DeLorme base, are within an inch of the "real" site. Others have a bias error for the whole state (dataum bias, eh?). Others are variable...usually "out east" where there are a tonne of very old locations with somewhat dubious information. The locations are PRECISE to four decimal places. However, the ACCURACY is at times '"iffy". (Hey, this is a great example of the difference between precise and accurate!). Gc "don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger" B At 05:58 PM 2/24/2002 -0800, you wrote: >Bob wrote: > I'm thinking that my GPS unit and >mapping software are using a different datum than the Mas/Mils CD data. >Does anyone know what datum the Mas/Mils CD is using?< > >Judging from some of the locations that I've seen, there are a lot of >mistakes, or outright fabrications in some of the data. Some mines plot in a >different countty, and there are even a few in the Atlantic. > >regards, >Earl ################################################################# # Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing Alias: rockhounds@drizzle.com # # Web: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/ # # Subscription Services: majordomo@drizzle.com # ################################################################# ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 11:17:20 -0500 From: "earl verbeek" Subject: RE: results of MAS MILS CD If some of the data were imported from old Atomic Energy Commission files, when geologists were swarming all over the western U.S. and looking at thousands of uranium prospects, then human error is definitely a contributing complication for some localities. Remember the uranium rush was just that--a rush--and the AEC was attempting to gather a lot of data in a hurry, to get some idea of this nation's uranium reserves. Geologists who had to visit four or five prospects a day, and file reports on them, were simply too rushed for detail, and sometimes the "X" they put on their map was on the wrong ridge or in the wrong stream valley. Over the years, while working for the USGS, I tried to relocate some of these properties. Often the locations as given in the AEC files were dead on, but others were in error, sometimes considerably so. Cheers- Earl Verbeek _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:41:40 -0600 From: Gary Brown Subject: Kentucky Cave Land Hello all... This coming weekend my boys (11 and 16) will be joining me down in Kentucky for the weekend. I want to show them Mammoth Cave. Any other suggestions for a real short weekend? Any other "must see" cave down there? Of course, any rock shop suggestions would be welcome. We'll be flying out of Cincinnati on Sunday night. Thanks all... gcb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:12:34 -0600 From: haroldh3@juno.com Subject: Rensselaer Quarry Kevin, You say the quarry is now flooded. Does that mean no more collecting there? If there is still collecting who do we contact for permission? I do have a very nice pyrite cluster from there that I got at the Bloomington, Indiana rockshow several years ago. Harold Helmuth ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 19:30:10 -0600 From: "kevin k conroy" Subject: Re: Rensselaer Quarry Hi Harold! I haven't been there for many years now but my understanding is that the quarry is closed and no collecting is allowed. The quarry was quite large, and would have easily held at least 10 football fields. Last I heard the water was over half way up the walls, which were probably about 40 -50 feet high, and still rising. I'm sure it's leveled off but way too high to collect (except by boat) even if permission were granted. Now for a bit of a plug. The Bloomington swap is my favorite swap anywhere! I strongly urge everyone to attend if at all possible. Folks come from all over the US, mainly from the Midwest of course, to this event. There are also usually several folks from Canada who make it. The amount and variety of minerals, fossils, and lapidary stuff is very good. To see a report of last year's swap go to Stan Perry's site at: www.emineralshow.com/show2.htm In addition to the swap there are meetings of the Friends of Mineralogy, and the Mid America Paleontology Society (M.A.P.S.), Indiana Chapter. The dates this year are June 21 - 23, and it will be held at the Monroe County 4-H Fairgrounds, Bloomington, IN. If you want more info contact: Margaret Kahrs at (812) 533-6093. Mark your calendars now!!!! All the best, Kevin www.kcminerals.com - -----Original Message----- From: haroldh3@juno.com To: rockhounds@drizzle.com Date: Monday, February 25, 2002 6:50 PM Subject: Rensselaer Quarry >Kevin, >You say the quarry is now flooded. Does that mean no more collecting >there? If there is still collecting who do we contact for permission? >I do have a very nice pyrite cluster from there that I got at the >Bloomington, Indiana rockshow several years ago. >Harold Helmuth >________________________________________________________________ >GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! >Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! >Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. >################################################################# ># Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing Alias: rockhounds@drizzle.com # ># Web: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/ # ># Subscription Services: majordomo@drizzle.com # >################################################################# ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 20:42:11 -0600 From: Thomas & Elizabeth Yancey Subject: Bipyramidal quartz crystals Does anyone have information on the origin of large sized doubly terminated, bipyramidal (no prism faces) quartz crystals? I recently acquired large bipyramidal quartz crystals with no prism faces from Edwards, New York, which come from Grenville metamorphic rocks and formed within matrix, not in vugs. Could these have originated as beta quartz, at high temperature? Tiny bipyramidal quartz crystals with no prism faces are common in volcanic ash deposits and no doubt formed as beta quartz, but some 'Pecos diamonds' (which formed in sedimentary rocks near the Pecos River in New Mexico) are also bipyramidal yet unlikely to have been formed as beta quartz. The Edwards quartz crystals are unusual and I would appreciate any comments on origin. Tom Yancey ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 23:35:13 -0500 From: Pete Richards Subject: Re: Bipyramidal quartz crystals The simple answer, unfortunately, is that you cannot rely on a habit with minimal or no prism faces as an indicator of quartz that formed originally as beta quartz at high temperature. There are too many examples of crystals of that habit that certainly formed at and were never exposed to temperatures near the transition from low to high quartz. Pecos diamonds, quartz typically associated with hematite in New York, England, Elba, etc, and quartz from concretions in sedimentary rocks in Ohio that never have been above 100 degrees Centigrade in all probability all have this habit. As do (many) pseudomorphs of beta quartz. Pete Richards >Does anyone have information on the origin of large sized doubly >terminated, bipyramidal (no prism faces) quartz crystals? I recently >acquired large bipyramidal quartz crystals with no prism faces from >Edwards, New York, which come from Grenville metamorphic rocks and formed >within matrix, not in vugs. Could these have originated as beta quartz, at >high temperature? Tiny bipyramidal quartz crystals with no prism faces are >common in volcanic ash deposits and no doubt formed as beta quartz, but >some 'Pecos diamonds' (which formed in sedimentary rocks near the Pecos >River in New Mexico) are also bipyramidal yet unlikely to have been formed >as beta quartz. The Edwards quartz crystals are unusual and I would >appreciate any comments on origin. > >Tom Yancey > > >################################################################# ># Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing Alias: rockhounds@drizzle.com # ># Web: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/ # ># Subscription Services: majordomo@drizzle.com # >################################################################# - -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh ------------------------------ End of rockhounds-digest V2 #1219 ********************************* ################################################################# # Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing Alias: rockhounds@drizzle.com # # Web: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/ # # Subscription Services: majordomo@drizzle.com # #################################################################