From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Apr 1 19:34:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Apr 1 19:34:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tests for Silver Message-ID: <3E8A5A0F.5E7A@Tomaszewski.net> I am familiar with the usual test for silver using Nitric Acid, but this is a chemical many rockhounds do not have on hand. Does anyone know a simple test for silver that can be performed with compounds likely to be found in an average home? A non-destructive test would be preferred. Thanks! Kreigh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 2 00:24:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Apr 2 00:24:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tests for Silver References: <3E8A5A0F.5E7A@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <001c01c2f8f1$8d07ca60$369e77d5@pandora.be> Hi Kreigh Here's a test you can perform outside your house. Silver has a VERY high affinity for sulfur. Hydrogen sulfide will react almost immediately with silver . a simple test can be carried out like this: put a small fragment of iron sulfide in a jar. Add a few drops of HCl and watch how the effervescence sets in. Avoid breathing in the gas, it is a powerful nerve gas. Put a lid loosely on the jat to keep the gas in. Allow the gas to build up a bit. Wet the silver with water and put it in the jar quickly (without throwing it in the acid of course). The silver will almost immediately be covered with a brown or black layer of sulfide. If you remove the silver from the jar, the sulfide layer sticks to it. The brown layer of silver sulfide can easily be removed by immersing the silver in ammonia solution. It will simply dissolve. This test is not destructive. However, one should be aware of the risks of handling the above chemicals . Especially H2S is that highly toxic and dangerous gas. much native silver is already covered with sulfideso the visibility of the best would be greatly benefit from cleaning the silver previously. Small curls of silver are easily cleaned up by dipping them in ammonia for a short while. Large pieces can be polished with a good toothbrush and some wet ammonium carbonate. let me know if it works, will you? Axel Emmermann Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen MINERANT 2003 - Mineralen en fossielen beurs Dit jaar NIEUWE LOCATIE! "Stuurboord - hangar 26-27", Rijnkaai 96, Antwerpen. Grote parking ! Waar: Scheldekaaien naast de ATV-studio's ter hoogte vd Londonstraat. Route: http://www.stuurboord.com/gif/map.gif http://www.minerant.org/MKA/minerantnl.html Werkgroepen Fluorescentie & Technische Realisaties Home : Lobbesplein 12 B-2640 Mortsel Belgium Tel: +32 (0)3 295.35.54 E-mail: axel.emmermann@pandora.be Visit our homepage: http://www.minerant.org/index.html Bezoek onze web-site: http://www.minerant.org/MKA/index.html My own web-site: http://users.pandora.be/axel.emmerman/home/index.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 5:41 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Tests for Silver | I am familiar with the usual test for silver using Nitric Acid, but this | is a chemical many rockhounds do not have on hand. Does anyone know a | simple test for silver that can be performed with compounds likely to be | found in an average home? A non-destructive test would be preferred. | Thanks! | | Kreigh | _______________________________________________ | Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List | WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds | Subscription Services: | http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds | | From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 2 10:17:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (John Cornish) Date: Wed Apr 2 10:17:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] My New Acquistions Case Message-ID: <004901c2f944$1f97f560$7985a141@rockman> Hi Everyone, Over the last decade, I've actively strived to bring our specimens forth = in displays highlighting the glories of our hobby, and to be honest, for = more than any other reason, I've done this so that I can personally = enjoy these rare and unique wonders. Oh the comments from others are = sweetness and honey, don't get me wrong, but it's really my own singular = appreciation of knowing intimately the trials endured while recovering = these beautiful treasures. The blood spilt, the bugs that bit, the = expectation, the trials, and on those special days, the wide-eyed, heart = pounding anxiety of rewarding discovery. With all the unlimited = possibilities, truly, I love this hobby of ours. Personally, I'm an active field collector. I enjoy my time in the out of = doors, rain or shine. The smell of the air as it catches the wild = fragrances of the woods. The kiss of rain and the damp clinging wetness = of fog. Sun beams streaking through clouds and the grounding of the = Earth beneath my feet. The cool damp smell of freshly turned dirt and = the rising, swirling dust of broken rock. The shifting ebb of beach = sands and the cries of eagles and gulls, the bark of sun-bathing seals = and the lap of the waves. The ringing peal of steel and the grinding of = wedging bars. With the experience such an intoxicant, headlong I cast = myself forth, thrilling at every level of the search. With this my motivation, I've been fortunate and have made several = wonderful discoveries over the years, and while I'm not bragging, we've = managed to assemble a nice little collection of predominantly self = collected treasures. As these creations of nature accumulated, I became = less and less satisfied with their cubby-holed, boxed away existence = here at home. Thus, we acquired our first display case. And from there = we acquired others, and still others, always with an eye towards = enhancement and improvement. It's been a slow process over these long = years, but truly, I must say that I'm satisfied and proud of the = appearance of our maturing little collection.=20 Currently, our main cases are somewhat static. These were set up about a = year ago and while they look great, what about our new specimens? What = about those treasures discovered afterwards? Are they destined to start = full circle, back at the beginning, cubby-holed and stashed away, boxed = and forgotten? Icky thought. To have come so far and yet to have arrived = back at the beginning none the less. This will not do, and thus was = created our ever rotating New Acquisitions Case (NAC)! This case is = essentially a Federation Style case open, without its front glass = partition. It sits prominently in our display room and welcomes people = in a warmer, less forbidding way than the colder glassed cases which = surround it. And while all of the other displays in the room are = perfectly filled, this lone odd-ball case may be nearly empty or only = partially filled with a splendidly diverse mix of unrelated treasures = which slowly accumulate, one piece here and one piece there until = finally, the case is filled to completion, another complete display in a = room of same.=20 =20 And then, the cycle begins again and the NAC is cleared as new treasures = are added to the collection and the old ones are displaced. The = unfortunate truth is that this is still a short term display and = solution and that eventually, until another scenario is realized, these = treasures are destined to be cast aside into the inky darkness of closed = boxes and drawers. For a short time they were legend, they gleamed = nestled among other worldly treasures supremely. Still, here we are, = what to do, what to do?=20 And this brings us to the present, to today, or more appropriately, to = last Sunday, 3/30/2003. Gloria, Buddy our dog, and myself, we all took a = trip to one of our favorite beach haunts and there we found treasure. = Boy, oh boy, did we have a fun day! This special section of beach has = often yielded fossils from the Oligocene of about 28 million years ago. = The fossils we find are of marine origin and represent some of the = world's finest vertebrates and invertebrates from this period and = environment. We slipped down the soggy trail and eventually made our way = out onto the beach shingle. We had the place all to ourselves, and with = the rain pouring down as it was, things weren't likely to change. Within = minutes, I discovered my first fossilized whale vertebra. This was = quickly followed miraculously by 3 others! The vertebrae are quite = distinctive in shape and are very attractive, having a glossy, rich = brown iron oxide covering which aids in their discovery and = identification from among all of the other unrelated beach materials. As = we continued walking, my luck like a flower bloomed and before me lay a = large balled bone mass, the largest bone among a group of bones which if = complete would form the whale's flipper. The ball on the end of this = bone is nearly 5 inches across and it makes quite a hefty weight. The = smile playing across my face was just too hard to control and it wasn't = long before Gloria set out to make her own discoveries. She stayed in = the bigger rocks while I worked back towards the shore in hopes of = finding fossilized star fish. I'd not gone 30 yards when I heard her = sing out. Looking back, she's dancing a little dance and is motioning me = over. With her that excited, how could I refuse? Upon arriving, I could = see that Gloria was really pumped up. The first things she shows me are = two sections of broken rib and two vertebrae of her own, then she drops = the bomb and shows me the big prize, her own balled flipper bone! It's a = killer too, the entire piece is even more substantial then mine, though = the ball is of the same approximate size. Gloria's is absolutely covered = with barnacles too, while mine is completely bare. How very cool, = there's lots of vertebrae in a whale and yet there are only two of these = flipper bones and we'd managed to find them both. With a passion, we = were soon on the hunt checking to see what other treasures may be lying = about. We started combing the immediate area and that's when things = really got exciting, in total we found 19 separate bones that day and = among them, were two pieces of skull! Both skull pieces are quite large = and in addition to, and in consideration of, the flipper bones size, = this whale was likely between 15 and 20 feet long (this comparison = estimation is based on this animal's bone sizes and the bones of another = fossil whale which I discovered and donated to the Burke Museum in = Seattle back in 1993). Man, oh man, what a great day. Who cares if it = was like walking in a shower with all the rain streaming from the = heavens? Who cared that the entire hike out was uphill through slippery = mud? We'd found treasure! Additionally to this, we also made three other small discoveries. Gloria = found a nice pyritized clam and I managed a decent pyritized sea urchin. = Both of these fossils had minor shell coverings still in place and the = urchin still retains many of its tiny spines. The last specimen found = represents a first time discovery for me, it's a concretionary tube with = a hollow cavity within its interior. Lining it are nice, clear rhombic = calcite crystals, which in itself is not an uncommon occurrence, what is = uncommon and exceptional about this discovery is that these calcite's = were covered by an attractive iridescent pyrite overgrowth. Scattered = across the terminal faces of the calcite's are brilliant large, sharp = octahedral pyrite crystals which rise smartly from among smaller, less = well defined individuals attractively. This is the first example of this = association I've encountered in over a decade's collecting from these = sediments. Quite a day all in all! Once home, our treasures are washed, groomed (the seaweed and the = anemones are removed), and then they're dried. Currently, they're in the = kitchen crowding part of the counter top and in just a bit, I'll gather = them up and I'll move them downstairs to the rock room. Once there, = they'll be placed into the appropriate repositories, some, the lesser = specimens, chunks of broken bone mainly, will be placed into our kids = rocks box and the others, the important relevant specimens, they'll be = placed into our NAC, and it's here that things will come to a grinding = halt. Let me explain, the NAC display which is currently in place is = complete and was begun right at the beginning of this year, 2003, this = makes an ideal starting point to begin documenting these current = accumulated discoveries through photographs. In one sense, I've been = satisfied having these new specimens out, the problem, beyond those that = I've previously mentioned, is that these treasures mark the time, = reflecting the activities and localities most energetically pursued = during a particular period and if they're not documented, they're lost = in this sense. I believe that if we look beyond the moment, that for = some of us, one day our collections may achieve a standard of excellence = decreeing them worthy of a more lasting relevance and consideration. = It's with this hope, and for many other reasons additionally, that I = document our collection and our excursions. These varied forms of = documentation record so very many things and they're a joy to reference = as the years pass and the memories begin to fade. What potential = information and/or enjoyment could be gleaned from a photo, such a = simple thing, recording forever a particular time's collecting rewards? = The possibilities seem endless. The constantly changing, evolving = character and flavor of the collection would be captured in mini time = capsules illustrating these dramatic influences. And, what a neat quick = reference to have as a guide too! This just seems to make good sense, = especially in light of the fact that our NAC displays are currently = being rotated out and into storage. It's a shame it's taken me so long = to discover this simple truth. And so, the time to start is now. The current display is 100% comprised = of this year's collecting treasures and this makes the perfect starting = point to begin my documentation. With camera in hand, the fossil and = mineral specimens within this year's first NAC are recorded and this new = form of information can now be included into our collection's = information files. And what did this first NAC display you may ask? = Treasures my friend, treasures! Within was the largest accumulation of = loose fossil whale vertebrae that we've yet found to fill any one = individual NAC, 20 in all. They range in size from 2x2 to 5x5 inches. = There are 6 calcite after aragonite pseudomorphs, 5 of these are "X" = twins. 1 loose starfish platelet (of calcite) and one starfish matrix = plate with stars on both the top and the bottom surfaces, 4 brittlestar = mortality plates, one of these, a 3x5 inch specimen, is the first yet = recovered with micro pyrite association. 1 pyrite clam, 2 coral, 2 = driftwood with chalcedony filled borings, 1 crab with barnacles a top = its carapace. 6 peridote gem shards from Hawaii (gift from a friend's = driveway), 7 Chihuahua geode halves displaying calcite's of differing = morphology, color and phantoms, also from here are displayed goethite = crystal sprays on quartz and a 1x2 inch selenite crystal. 1 blue phantom = quartz plate (older material just cleaned), 1 vivianite clam and 1 = malachite after azurite (from this year's Tucson). 1 penetration twined = calcite and 1 penetration twin group on natrolite, and finally, 1 = stilbite flower-like matrix specimen. All of these treasures were = collected and/or acquired during the three month period starting on = January 14th (the first trip of the new year) and concluding on March = 22nd (the last trip whose materials filled the first NAC of 2003 to = completion).=20 In conclusion, the role of curator is an individual burden, though not = necessarily a wearisome one. Rather, it can be an adventure of = discoveries. The relevancy of our interest and dedication to our = collections may not be so apparent in the now, but in the future, who's = to know the importance of information lost, or more aspiringly praised, = information recorded? Our accomplishments may be tiny things in and of = themselves, but in combinations, who's to know the scope of our deeds? All the very best everyone. Take care, John --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 2 10:47:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Teresa Masters) Date: Wed Apr 2 10:47:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] My New Acquistions Case References: <004901c2f944$1f97f560$7985a141@rockman> Message-ID: <3E8B2FE3.445366E4@cox.net> John, What a beautifully poetic trip through your and Gloria's up to now 2003 Field Trips. It gives me the sense of being there on that beach in the rain, feeling it all especially the glory of discovery. Thank you for sharing this with us. Teresa From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Apr 3 19:18:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (John Cornish) Date: Thu Apr 3 19:18:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] My New Acquistions Case References: <004901c2f944$1f97f560$7985a141@rockman> <3E8B2FE3.445366E4@cox.net> Message-ID: <001f01c2fa58$ee23e0f0$df85a141@rockman> Hi Teresa, Your welcome. Thank you for the note, John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teresa Masters" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 10:46 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] My New Acquistions Case > John, > What a beautifully poetic trip through your and Gloria's up to now 2003 > Field Trips. > > It gives me the sense of being there on that beach in the rain, feeling > it all especially the glory of discovery. > > Thank you for sharing this with us. > Teresa > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Apr 4 07:17:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Lawrence Rush) Date: Fri Apr 4 07:17:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lignite Message-ID: <000201c2fabd$22712ac0$bcaf5a0c@fekib> If anyone on the list has experience or knowledge about lignite, could you please contact me off-line for a discussion? Thanks.......Larry Rush www.mineralstotrade.homestead.com "Noel Coward thought work was more fun than play, but he never, ever worked in the mines" From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Apr 5 05:53:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sat Apr 5 05:53:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Raleigh Show Message-ID: <003b01c2fb7a$dcc9f4c0$ab89f7a5@peggy> ITS SHOW TIME TARHEEL GEM & MINERAL CLUB'S 27th Annual Capitol Area Gem and Mineral Festival Kerr Scott Building, NC State Fairgrounds, Raleigh, NC Friday April 11 5pm - 9pm Saturday April 12 10am - 7pm Sunday April 13 10am - 5pm Anyone needing further information, please contact me off-list. Kenny barny@mindspring.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Apr 6 21:19:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Apr 6 20:19:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tests for Silver References: <3E8A5A0F.5E7A@Tomaszewski.net> <001c01c2f8f1$8d07ca60$369e77d5@pandora.be> Message-ID: <3E90FC32.7956@Tomaszewski.net> Axel, That's a great test, but it really doesn't meet my needs. I'm working via email with someone remotely and am not real comfortable recommending a test that produces a strong toxic vapor when I am unsure of the skills of my correspondent. But it did give me an inspiration. Placing some (powdered) sulfur on a silver surface, and wrapping it tightly in paper for a few days to a week, will give black spots of silver sulfide on the (brightly polished) silver surface where the sulfur is in contact. And as you indicated, ammonia will clean it off again. Safe, non-toxic, and using materials that are easily obtainable. That led me to boiling calcium oxide (lime) with raw egg white and a silver sample, which will also produce silver sulfide (egg whites contain sulfur, released by the lime and heat). But this test is less reliable. My thanks for your help! Kreigh Axel Emmermann wrote: > > Hi Kreigh > > Here's a test you can perform outside your house. > Silver has a VERY high affinity for sulfur. Hydrogen sulfide will react > almost immediately with silver . a simple test can be carried out like this: > put a small fragment of iron sulfide in a jar. Add a few drops of HCl and > watch how the effervescence sets in. Avoid breathing in the gas, it is a > powerful nerve gas. > Put a lid loosely on the jat to keep the gas in. Allow the gas to build up > a bit. Wet the silver with water and put it in the jar quickly (without > throwing it in the acid of course). The silver will almost immediately be > covered with a brown or black layer of sulfide. If you remove the silver > from the jar, the sulfide layer sticks to it. The brown layer of silver > sulfide can easily be removed by immersing the silver in ammonia solution. > It will simply dissolve. > > This test is not destructive. However, one should be aware of the risks of > handling the above chemicals . Especially H2S is that highly toxic and > dangerous gas. > > much native silver is already covered with sulfideso the visibility of the > best would be greatly benefit from cleaning the silver previously. Small > curls of silver are easily cleaned up by dipping them in ammonia for a short > while. Large pieces can be polished with a good toothbrush and some wet > ammonium carbonate. > > let me know if it works, will you? > > Axel Emmermann > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 5:41 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Tests for Silver > > | I am familiar with the usual test for silver using Nitric Acid, but this > | is a chemical many rockhounds do not have on hand. Does anyone know a > | simple test for silver that can be performed with compounds likely to be > | found in an average home? A non-destructive test would be preferred. > | Thanks! > | > | Kreigh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Apr 7 10:18:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Apr 7 09:18:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tests for Silver References: <3E8A5A0F.5E7A@Tomaszewski.net> <001c01c2f8f1$8d07ca60$369e77d5@pandora.be> <3E90FC32.7956@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <005b01c2fd21$885030a0$0a9d77d5@pandora.be> Hi Kreigh | | That's a great test, but it really doesn't meet my needs. I'm working | via email with someone remotely and am not real comfortable recommending | a test that produces a strong toxic vapor when I am unsure of the skills | of my correspondent. Yes, we don't want a liability suit ;-))) | But it did give me an inspiration. | | Placing some (powdered) sulfur on a silver surface, and wrapping it | tightly in paper for a few days to a week, will give black spots of | silver sulfide on the (brightly polished) silver surface where the | sulfur is in contact. And as you indicated, ammonia will clean it off | again. Safe, non-toxic, and using materials that are easily obtainable. I even have a simpeler and probably faster one: Rub the silver witch a freshly cut piece of onion or garlic... I should turn brown in a few second due to the sulfur compounds that cause the specific smell of these "vegetables" (mercaptanes). | That led me to boiling calcium oxide (lime) with raw egg white and a | silver sample, which will also produce silver sulfide (egg whites | contain sulfur, released by the lime and heat). But this test is less | reliable. How older the egg how better it works... The Chinese would burry an egg and a piece of silver for about 100 years. Then the grand grand children would unearth the egg, eat the egg and wonder what the black corroded stuff is that was burried next to the egg... | My thanks for your help! I owed you one ;-)))) You went through quite some trouble to get me a moon rock.... By the way, we are expecting an important visit at the MKA. I'll keep you informd. Axel | | | | Axel Emmermann wrote: | > | > Hi Kreigh | > | > Here's a test you can perform outside your house. | > Silver has a VERY high affinity for sulfur. Hydrogen sulfide will react | > almost immediately with silver . a simple test can be carried out like this: | > put a small fragment of iron sulfide in a jar. Add a few drops of HCl and | > watch how the effervescence sets in. Avoid breathing in the gas, it is a | > powerful nerve gas. | > Put a lid loosely on the jat to keep the gas in. Allow the gas to build up | > a bit. Wet the silver with water and put it in the jar quickly (without | > throwing it in the acid of course). The silver will almost immediately be | > covered with a brown or black layer of sulfide. If you remove the silver | > from the jar, the sulfide layer sticks to it. The brown layer of silver | > sulfide can easily be removed by immersing the silver in ammonia solution. | > It will simply dissolve. | > | > This test is not destructive. However, one should be aware of the risks of | > handling the above chemicals . Especially H2S is that highly toxic and | > dangerous gas. | > | > much native silver is already covered with sulfideso the visibility of the | > best would be greatly benefit from cleaning the silver previously. Small | > curls of silver are easily cleaned up by dipping them in ammonia for a short | > while. Large pieces can be polished with a good toothbrush and some wet | > ammonium carbonate. | > | > let me know if it works, will you? | > | > Axel Emmermann | > ----- Original Message ----- | > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" | > To: | > Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 5:41 AM | > Subject: [Rockhounds] Tests for Silver | > | > | I am familiar with the usual test for silver using Nitric Acid, but this | > | is a chemical many rockhounds do not have on hand. Does anyone know a | > | simple test for silver that can be performed with compounds likely to be | > | found in an average home? A non-destructive test would be preferred. | > | Thanks! | > | | > | Kreigh | _______________________________________________ | Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List | WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds | Subscription Services: | http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds | | From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Apr 7 20:42:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Hiroyasu Ichikawa) Date: Mon Apr 7 19:42:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] new standard of classification? Message-ID: <001b01c2fd78$541acaa0$221830db@hiro> Hi, has anyone heard about the new standard of classification of minerals including rare earth elements(ex. Y, Ce, La, Nb, Ta,U, Th, and so on) in pegmatite? Hiroyasu --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Apr 7 22:02:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Apr 7 21:02:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tests for Silver References: <3E8A5A0F.5E7A@Tomaszewski.net> <001c01c2f8f1$8d07ca60$369e77d5@pandora.be> <3E90FC32.7956@Tomaszewski.net> <005b01c2fd21$885030a0$0a9d77d5@pandora.be> Message-ID: <3E9257A3.25A4@Tomaszewski.net> Axel Emmermann wrote: > > Hi Kreigh > | > | That's a great test, but it really doesn't meet my needs. I'm > > I even have a simpeler and probably faster one: > Rub the silver witch a freshly cut piece of onion or garlic... I should turn > brown in a few second due to the sulfur compounds that cause the specific > smell of these "vegetables" (mercaptanes). That is a winner! I knew there was a safe, simple test I had heard of before, but I was frustrated by not being able to remember or find it. > > | That led me to boiling calcium oxide (lime) with raw egg white and a > How older the egg how better it works... The Chinese would burry an That's a fun one... > > | My thanks for your help! > > I owed you one ;-)))) > You went through quite some trouble to get me a moon rock.... By the way, we > are expecting an important visit at the MKA. I'll keep you informd. That sounds interesting. Much more interesting than the freezing rain and resulting ice (down trees, and power outages) we've been having since Friday evening. Kreigh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Apr 8 03:48:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Apr 8 02:48:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tests for Silver References: <3E8A5A0F.5E7A@Tomaszewski.net> <001c01c2f8f1$8d07ca60$369e77d5@pandora.be> <3E90FC32.7956@Tomaszewski.net> <005b01c2fd21$885030a0$0a9d77d5@pandora.be> <3E9257A3.25A4@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <006401c2fdb4$50785840$be9f77d5@pandora.be> | That sounds interesting. Can't say anything right now but if you haven't heard from me by next monday just ask! | | Much more interesting than the freezing rain | and resulting ice (down trees, and power outages) we've been having | since Friday evening. We've had three weeks of almost summer. Now it's cold but sunny with a freezing N.E. wind... (Straight from icy Skandinavia) Axel | Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List | WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds | Subscription Services: | http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds | | From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Apr 8 07:42:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Apr 8 06:42:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Roadside Geology of New York/Pennsylvania In-Reply-To: <15a.1d9a580c.2bb67297@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.5.2.20030408063357.015e93a8@mail.spiritone.com> What page is that on? AFAIK that stretch of 140 is pretty boring andesites and basalts...I have never heard of peridot in Oregon... At 10:52 PM 3/28/2003 -0500, you wrote: In a message dated 3/28/03 7:16:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, pjmodreski@worldnet.att.net writes: > they're for people who are interested in and curious > about, the geology of their state. > They do have some value for rockhounds, especiallky if you can find them cheaper than list price. I've used the Oregon Roadside Geology book to locate things that are not listed in the field guides. Peridot is listed between Klamath Falls and Ashland on Highway 140. I think knowing where to look before it gets listed in Gem Trails might be more productive than looking where the books say to look. They are primarily about road cuts but there are good things in road cuts. Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! mailto:tim@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Apr 8 07:51:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Tue Apr 8 06:51:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Roadside Geology of New York/Pennsylvania Message-ID: <200304081351.h38Dp0UZ002211@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Tim, I don't know about peridot, but there may be other members of the forsterite-fayalite series: basalts, why not? I have no evidence one way or the other; just a thought. However, I do know that zeolite collectors have made some good finds in Oregon. In fact, one of the most well-known micro collectors and author, Rudy Tschernich, lives out that way. I'm guessing that if you break out your loupe you will see all sorts of goodies in Oregon. Don > What page is that on? AFAIK that stretch of 140 is pretty > boring andesites and basalts...I have never heard of peridot in > Oregon... From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Apr 8 08:43:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Apr 8 07:43:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Roadside Geology of New York/Pennsylvania In-Reply-To: <200304081351.h38Dp0UZ002211@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.5.2.20030408071354.015e9ad8@mail.spiritone.com> Yes I am one of those idiots Don; but peridot is not related to nor commonly occurs with the zeolites (it only occurs in olivine basalts which are rare in the NW)...which is why I asked... At 01:50 PM 4/8/2003 +0000, you wrote: >Tim, I don't know about peridot, but there may be other members of the >forsterite-fayalite series: basalts, why not? I have no evidence one way or >the other; just a thought. However, I do know that zeolite collectors have >made some good finds in Oregon. In fact, one of the most well-known micro >collectors and author, Rudy Tschernich, lives out that way. I'm guessing >that >if you break out your loupe you will see all sorts of goodies in Oregon. > >Don > > > > > What page is that on? AFAIK that stretch of 140 is pretty > > boring andesites and basalts...I have never heard of peridot in > > Oregon... >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! mailto:tim@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Apr 8 09:04:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Tue Apr 8 08:04:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Roadside Geology of New York/Pennsylvania Message-ID: <200304081503.h38F3wYZ007643@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Interesting, that's good to know (the occurence of zeolites vs. olivines). I am trying to learn the basic geology along with mineralogy. It becomes confusing because older literature refers to "basic" and "acidic" rocks whereas later literature seems to deprecate that, preferring "mafic" and so forth; unless I am even more confused than I think. I would imagine the genetic composition of the rock determines the formation of components like olivine series minerals; but don't the zeolites form much later? Is it that that cannot chemically occur together, or just that in that locality in Oregon, they don't? Don > Yes I am one of those idiots Don; but peridot is not related to nor > commonly occurs with the zeolites (it only occurs in olivine basalts which > are rare in the NW)...which is why I asked... > > At 01:50 PM 4/8/2003 +0000, you wrote: > > >Tim, I don't know about peridot, but there may be other members of the > >forsterite-fayalite series: basalts, why not? I have no evidence one way or > >the other; just a thought. However, I do know that zeolite collectors have > >made some good finds in Oregon. In fact, one of the most well-known micro > >collectors and author, Rudy Tschernich, lives out that way. I'm guessing > >that > >if you break out your loupe you will see all sorts of goodies in Oregon. > > > >Don > > > > > > > > > What page is that on? AFAIK that stretch of 140 is pretty > > > boring andesites and basalts...I have never heard of peridot in > > > Oregon... > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > Tim Fisher > Ore-ROCK-On! > mailto:tim@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Apr 8 10:13:04 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Apr 8 09:13:04 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Roadside Geology of New York/Pennsylvania In-Reply-To: <200304081503.h38F3wYZ007643@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.5.2.20030408083158.015f9ce8@mail.spiritone.com> There are few olivine basalts in the NW, and peridot is an olivine...hence no peridot that I know of around here...the subject highway passes through classic Cascades andesitic basalts, and high iron flood basalts (i.e. lava flows)... At 03:03 PM 4/8/2003 +0000, you wrote: >Interesting, that's good to know (the occurence of zeolites vs. olivines). > >I am trying to learn the basic geology along with mineralogy. It becomes >confusing because older literature refers to "basic" and "acidic" rocks >whereas >later literature seems to deprecate that, preferring "mafic" and so forth; >unless I am even more confused than I think. I would imagine the genetic >composition of the rock determines the formation of components like olivine >series minerals; but don't the zeolites form much later? Is it that that >cannot chemically occur together, or just that in that locality in Oregon, >they >don't? > >Don > > Yes I am one of those idiots Don; but peridot is not related to nor > > commonly occurs with the zeolites (it only occurs in olivine basalts which > > are rare in the NW)...which is why I asked... > > > > At 01:50 PM 4/8/2003 +0000, you wrote: > > > > >Tim, I don't know about peridot, but there may be other members of the > > >forsterite-fayalite series: basalts, why not? I have no evidence one > way or > > >the other; just a thought. However, I do know that zeolite collectors > have > > >made some good finds in Oregon. In fact, one of the most well-known micro > > >collectors and author, Rudy Tschernich, lives out that way. I'm guessing > > >that > > >if you break out your loupe you will see all sorts of goodies in Oregon. > > > > > >Don > > > > > > > > > > > > > What page is that on? AFAIK that stretch of 140 is pretty > > > > boring andesites and basalts...I have never heard of peridot in > > > > Oregon... > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > >Subscription Services: > > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > Tim Fisher > > Ore-ROCK-On! > > mailto:tim@OreRockOn.com > > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! mailto:tim@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Apr 8 10:29:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Mack Lingenfelter) Date: Tue Apr 8 09:29:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Change of address Message-ID: <003e01c2fdeb$a59459a0$b83067cf@voicenet.com> As of april 14th my e-mail address will be mlingenfelter@comcast.net = rather than jo7ma4@voicenet.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Apr 8 13:45:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Tue Apr 8 12:45:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Roadside Geology of New York/Pennsylvania Message-ID: <1c7.7ded38c.2bc480a1@aol.com> In a message dated 4/8/03 7:49:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Tim@orerockon.com writes: > I am one of those idiots Don; but peridot is not related to nor > commonly occurs with the zeolites (it only occurs in olivine basalts which > are rare in the NW)...which is why I asked... > According to "Roadside Geology of Oregon" peridot can be found on the pass between Klamath Falls and Ashland. If anybody wants specific directions I'll find the book and look it up (although it is probably easier to find peridot in Oregon than finding a specific book in my house.) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Apr 8 14:33:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Tue Apr 8 13:33:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Roadside Geology of New York/Pennsylvania Message-ID: <77.e2a793a.2bc48bb4@aol.com> In a message dated 4/8/03 6:42:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Tim@orerockon.com writes: > What page is that on? AFAIK that stretch of 140 is pretty > boring andesites and basalts...I have never heard of peridot in > Oregon... Hi Tim, I had good luck looking for my Roadside Geology of Oregon book. It had not migrated into my van or motorhome. Page 153. There is a map showing Highway140 and Highway 62. At bottom of map, just above page number, "Black rubbly flows from Brown Mountain on south, cross highway at pass. This basalt is studded with 1/16 to 1/8-inch crystals of green olivine (peridot)." I have never stopped to verify the statement. My wife and her brother own a ranch on Highway 62 about 3 miles west of Fort Klamath, near the boundry for Crater Lake N. P. It can be boring but if you lok at the soft soil through a loop you can see little sparkly things. She said they were titanium. Anybody have a test for that? Grant in Chicoo, CA --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Apr 8 16:32:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Apr 8 15:32:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Roadside Geology of New York/Pennsylvania References: <77.e2a793a.2bc48bb4@aol.com> Message-ID: <3E935BC7.7B0F@Tomaszewski.net> Lapadary@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 4/8/03 6:42:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Tim@orerockon.com > writes: > said they were titanium. Anybody have a test for that? > > Grant in Chicoo, CA Fuse in borax and repowder. Dissolve in hot concentrated HCl. Boil with small amount of real tin. Turns pale blue or violet with Titanium present. or Dissolve in fusion of sodium carbonate. Dissolve in concentrated HCl. boil with sliver of zinc or tin. Turns blue-violet with Titanium present. Both tests are listed in Pough. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Apr 8 17:33:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Thomas Yancey) Date: Tue Apr 8 16:33:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Roadside Geology of New York/Pennsylvania In-Reply-To: <77.e2a793a.2bc48bb4@aol.com> References: <77.e2a793a.2bc48bb4@aol.com> Message-ID: Some geological points. Surface materials (including soils) in the near vicinity of Crater Lake National Park contain a lot of volcanic ash and rock fragments. After all, Crater Lake was formed by a very large volcanic eruption. Because the eruption was so large, it pulverized large amounts of rock and the rocks that form much of the mountains of Crater Lake area contain many crystals, especially feldspar crystals. Feldspar crystals are common in the surface materials in Crater Lake Nat. Park and nearby areas and these crystals are broken along flat cleavage planes, that reflect light well. So the 'sparkly things' are probably fragments of feldspar crystals. Of course, any specific area might have other material present in the soil, but feldspar crystals are the first thing to consider for a site so close to Crater Lake. The coarse material blasted out by the Crater Lake eruption is really interesting to look at with a microscope. Tom Y snip >I had good luck looking for my Roadside Geology of Oregon book. It had not >migrated into my van or motorhome. > >Page 153. There is a map showing Highway140 and Highway 62. At bottom of map, >just above page number, "Black rubbly flows from Brown Mountain on south, >cross highway at pass. This basalt is studded with 1/16 to 1/8-inch crystals >of green olivine (peridot)." I have never stopped to verify the statement. > >My wife and her brother own a ranch on Highway 62 about 3 miles west of Fort >Klamath, near the boundry for Crater Lake N. P. It can be boring but if you >lok at the soft soil through a loop you can see little sparkly things. She >said they were titanium. Anybody have a test for that? > >Grant in Chico, CA From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Apr 8 22:24:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Tue Apr 8 21:24:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] peridot in Oregon References: <5.2.0.5.2.20030408083158.015f9ce8@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <003b01c2fe4f$e65fba60$2d00560c@oemcomputer> Hi, Tim and others, Thought I'd try to add to the discussion about whether peridot/olivine occurs in Oregon. I don't have enough personal familiarity to answer definitively about the basalts there, but I did do a search on GEOREF, the online geologic literature database that can be accessed through some libraries & institutions that have a subscription to it. When I searched for peridot + Oregon there were no "hits", but for olivine + Oregon, the database listed 10 articles with these two words appearing in the title; and more, 86 articles, with olivine and Oregon given as "keywords" in the articles. So, there are geologic descriptions of lavas in Oregon that contain olivine. The 10 articles (I've seen the titles and key word summaries, but not the complete articles) appear to deal with olivine-bearing basalt in southeast Oregon (Jordan Valley) north-central Oregon, and Diamond Craters (Malheur and Harney counties). "Diamond Craters" sounds interesting! I'm not certain (haven't looked it up), but I think that those counties are in SE Oregon (some of you must know). Just for the record (I was additionally curious), here are the comparable results I got when I searched for the same terms, peridot or olivine, for Hawaii, Arizona, and New Mexico: number of articles: Oregon Hawaii Arizona New Mexico peridot+state (in title) 0 0 5 2 peridot+state (keywords) 0 0 20 11 olivine+state (in title) 10 30 11 8 olivine+state (keywords) 86 364 127 108 (We'll see how well this table stays aligned when you all receive the email.) The number of times it's been mentioned in geologic articles, should give a rough indication of the abundance of the mineral in the state. My last comment, when people are writing geologic guidebooks, it's easy to want to perhaps exaggerate things a bit; such as when olivine grains occur in a basalt, even if no gem quality has been demonstrated, there's a temptation to call it "peridot" instead of just olivine, because it sounds more interesting. Of course, anyplace where there are even small grains of olivine, there's certainly a possibility that some might be of gem quality, if you search hard enough for large and facetable grains. Pete Modreski, Denver CO, pjmodreski@att.net and USGS, Denver, pmodreski@usgs.gov From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 9 00:06:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Teresa Otis) Date: Tue Apr 8 23:06:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] IMA info and cd database Message-ID: <3E93B860.F1EAC550@earthlink.net> We were looking up information on Astorite and found these links. It just seemed like something that would be of interest to list members. www.geo.vu.nl/users/ima-cnmmn/IMA-list.pdf http://www.materialsdata.com/PR%20Mineral.htm http://www.materialsdata.com/MINERALS.htm From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 9 09:19:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (John Stockwell) Date: Wed Apr 9 08:19:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] John Sinkankas Quartz Symposium April 12, AGI Conference Center, Carlsbad Message-ID: <3E9450DA.B342411D@ix.netcom.com> Event this coming Saturday. Contact Mr. Roger Merk at 619-281-1032 or Sponsored by the San Diego Gem & Mineral Society. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 9 13:50:05 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Wed Apr 9 12:50:05 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] peridot in Oregon Message-ID: <43.1af38e6b.2bc5d349@aol.com> In a message dated 4/8/03 11:24:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time, pjmodreski@worldnet.att.net writes: > Of course, anyplace where there are even small grains of > olivine, there's certainly a possibility that some might be of gem quality, > if you search hard enough for large and facetable grains. > And that is a pretty good answer to the question that started this discussion. The question was about the book, Roadside Geology of NY, and its value to rockhounds. I have Roadside Geology of Arizona, Roadside Geology of Nevada, and Roadside Geology of Oregon. I think they have information of value for people who are tired of picking up the scraps left behind when a site was first discovered. I've heard stories about the good old days when you could back a truck up to a site and load it up. If there are any of those sites left you probably need more than the Gem Trails or Rockhounding guides to find them. The exceptional place, like Davis Creek obsidian, are still productive but most of the guide books are too old to do more than get you to the right neighborhood. Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 9 14:55:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (William S. Cordua) Date: Wed Apr 9 13:55:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Acid and Basic nomenclature In-Reply-To: <43.1af38e6b.2bc5d349@aol.com> Message-ID: Hi. I've also found the Roadside Guides to be good basic sources of geologic info about aimed at the non-professional but also very useful for professionals playing tourist in unfamiliar areas. An earlier response to this topic mentioned the terms "acid" and "basic" as applied to igneous rocks. This old terminology came from a misconception that silica present in magmas was there as silicic acid. Using this reasoning, higher silica magmas such as granites and rhyolites would be "acidic" and lower silica magmas such as basic and gabbro would be "basic". When it was widely realized that silica in magma was not there as silicic acid, and thus not related to a magma's pH, the terminology was rightly dropped as confusing. It still persists (for example one sometimes reads of peridotite as an ultrabasic rock.) Better terms are mafic (rich in magnesium and iron) for gabbro and basalt, ultramafic for dunite and peridotite, and felsic for grnaites and rhyolites. Felsic suggests lots of feldspar, which is certainly true for granites and rhyolites , but there's also lots of feldspar (plagioclase) in basalt and gabbro, so that terminology isn't perfect either. But, well, what is, eh? Best wishes - Dr. Bill Dr. William S. Cordua Professor of Geology/Mineralogy University of Wisconsin - River Falls 410 South Third Street River Falls, WI 54022 715-425-3139 william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu "Speak to the Earth and it shall teach thee" - Job 12:8 From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 9 15:11:08 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Don H) Date: Wed Apr 9 14:11:08 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] IMA info and cd database References: <3E93B860.F1EAC550@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3E948DB8.981F9F12@att.net> If these are what they seem to be, then they are of more than just interest. In fact if you weren't already taken I'd marry you for finding these. I must admit my web search skills have declined, not improved, over the years. This looks like the validated, professionally produced, updated IMA data I have been craving for years. I have list e-mails going back to the late 1990's when I naievely intended to build a database with this information in it, given that it was lacking. Once I realized the implications of that task, I regretfully abandoned the idea, but have recently returned to it. I realize that there can also be errors in validated, officially produced data; but at least this information has the potential to be more publicly distributed, and should be scrutinized by more experienced eyes. It is a darn sight better than totally user-created websites with totally unvalidated data. I now have renewed hope that institutions like the IMA, MSA, CMA, et al. will see the value of placing essential data on line and maintaining it professionally. Best, Don Teresa Otis wrote: > > We were looking up information on Astorite and found these links. It > just seemed like something that would be of interest to list members. > > http://www.materialsdata.com/PR%20Mineral.htm > http://www.materialsdata.com/MINERALS.htm From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 9 23:14:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Apr 9 22:14:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Roadside Geology of New York/Pennsylvania In-Reply-To: <77.e2a793a.2bc48bb4@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.5.2.20030409215008.015e35d8@mail.spiritone.com> OK, I am satisfied now. IMO olivine does not equal peridot; peridot is the gemmy variety of olivine (ala Sunstone and feldspar)... At 04:31 PM 4/8/2003 -0400, you wrote: In a message dated 4/8/03 6:42:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Tim@orerockon.com writes: > What page is that on? AFAIK that stretch of 140 is pretty > boring andesites and basalts...I have never heard of peridot in > Oregon... Hi Tim, I had good luck looking for my Roadside Geology of Oregon book. It had not migrated into my van or motorhome. Page 153. There is a map showing Highway140 and Highway 62. At bottom of map, just above page number, {quot}Black rubbly flows from Brown Mountain on south, cross highway at pass. This basalt is studded with 1/16 to 1/8-inch crystals of green olivine (peridot).{quot} I have never stopped to verify the statement. My wife and her brother own a ranch on Highway 62 about 3 miles west of Fort Klamath, near the boundry for Crater Lake N. P. It can be boring but if you lok at the soft soil through a loop you can see little sparkly things. She said they were titanium. Anybody have a test for that? Grant in Chicoo, CA --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! mailto:tim@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Apr 10 17:14:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Frederick Olmstead) Date: Thu Apr 10 16:14:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Micromounters Conference Message-ID: <3E95FB15.329F@rcn.com> THE ATLANTIC MICROMOUNTERS CONFERENCE Tysons Westpark Hotel (near Tysons Corner, Virginia) Fri - evening get together Sat and Sunday Conference / speakers..... Hope there is still room. hope to see you there. contact Steve Weinberger cweinber@bcpl.net From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Apr 11 08:46:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Gary Brown) Date: Fri Apr 11 07:46:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds.com rip? Message-ID: BlankSo, is Bob's Rockshop on-line (www.rockhounds.com) "officially" dead or "just resting"? I just tried the URL and went to never-never land. "Who-is" still has Bob as the owner... Gary Brown Catspaw Minerals http://www.catspaw-minerals.com Supplier of MasMils/PLUS Mine Location Disk --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/gif --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Apr 11 18:42:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Cathy Gaber) Date: Fri Apr 11 17:42:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] national rockhound and lapidary hall of fame Message-ID: <200304071858.h37Iw5b26132@mail.his.com> The National Rockhound and Lapidary Hall of Fame accepts nominations annually and adds talented people to each of six categories - minerals, lapidary, fossils, metalcraft, education and deceased. The new Hall of Fame members are printed up in Lapidary Journal each fall/winter (the 2002 awardees were in the January, 2003 issue). All past awardees are listed at the website: http://www.rockhoundhalloffame.org/ The awardees for 2003 have not been formally announced as not all of the awardees have yet been notified. It was our pleasure however to present one of the awardees with his pin and certificate this weekend at the Rochester Mineralogical Symposium. Dr. Steven Chamberlain of Syracuse University and Co-Chairman of the Symposium was delighted and honored to become one of the latest members of the Hall of Fame. Below is the text of one of the nominations that were submitted to the committee for approval. Nomination for the National Rockhound and Lapidary Hall of Fame Dr. Steven Chamberlain is eminently qualified to be a member of the Hall of Fame. As a mineralogist, an educator and a collector, Steve¹s contributions to the hobby can scarcely be surpassed. This nomination in the minerals category will highlight the best of Steve as we know it. In the realm of mineralogy, nothing can be more important than Steve¹s efforts as the Co-Chairman of the Rochester Mineralogical Symposium, a position he has held since 1986. He works tirelessly year round to make sure that the program is of the highest quality, even bringing in speakers from as far away as France, Italy and Russia. This pro/am event is attended by over 300 people each spring and it is undoubtedly one of the finest meetings of its kind. Steve also serves as the master of ceremonies and continues to be responsible for the technical session which he started in 1984. He sometimes presents a talk or a poster of his own, and he is involved in every aspect of the symposium. Steve is a serious mineral collector. When his collection started to take over his home, he bought a barn large enough to house his collection. Conveniently, the barn happened to have a house next to it! His collection numbers over 30,000 carefully cleaned and cataloged specimens, mostly from New York state. His collection is considered by many to be one of the finest of New York minerals. He always enjoys showing his workspace/lab and his collection to other mineral enthusiasts. He has been known to drop everything to head to a new collecting locality to see what is being found. When cubic magnetite was discovered 10 years ago in Balmat, New York, he actually made several trips, including one with us to the miner¹s home. He loves field collecting, but is happy to ³silver pick² to add to his collection. Some of his favorites are uvites from Bower Powers Farm in Pierrepont, NY, hematite from Chub Lake, NY and the black stemmed ³Herkimer diamonds², also from New York. Steve has an impressive body of written work. In addition to numerous articles in other scientific disciplines, he has published sixty-three mineral related papers and abstracts, including seven articles in Mineralogical Record, nineteen articles and twenty abstracts in Rock & Minerals, and two articles in MATRIX. He often writes for the RMS program notes as well. Steve serves as a reviewer for the Canadian Journal of Mineralogy, Rocks and Minerals and Mineralogical Record. Since 1980, he has been a consulting editor for Rocks and Minerals. For 10 years, he was the American Editor for the Journal for the Russell Society, and he has been an abstractor for Mineralogical Abstracts since 1989. As a speaker, Steve is in great demand and has given over 250 talks to clubs and other groups. He has more than once been the guest speaker at the EFMLS Wildacres Workshop. He has spoken at various federation events and shows and was the speaker for the Atlantic Micromount Conference few years ago. Loyal to his ³home² club, Steve speaks annually for the Gem and Mineral Society of Syracuse, and for years he was a regular exhibitor in the club¹s Gem World show. In the last three decades, Steve has led countless field trips for New York state minerals. We had not known Steve very long before we found ourselves committed to a 4 day field trip to upper New York state. He seems to know every mineral outcrop in the state, many of which are scarcely more than a hole in the ground. He is wonderfully willing to share his knowledge and expertise. We enjoyed the long weekend immensely and even got a few good specimens to show for it. Steve has been a mentor to many young people interested in the hobby, including a 16 year old boy who became the youngest to present a paper at the prestigious Rochester Mineralogical Symposium. He is proud to have coached three students getting bachelor¹s degrees with their theses in mineralogy in the 1980s. Geared to children, ³The Real Science TV show² (Show #609 "Rock Stars") featured Steve as a rockhound examining ³Herkimer diamonds² in New York state. One of Steve¹s most recent endeavors is as Acting Coordinator of the New York State Museum Center for Mineralogy. He is working with Bill Kelly and Mike Hawkins at the museum to facilitate exhibition of minerals. Some of Steve¹s best New York specimens have been generously lent to the museum for a public exhibit. Steve has already earned several mineral related awards. In 1978, the Eastern Federation¹s President¹s Award for ³Teaching by Sharing² was bestowed upon him. Jointly with George Robinson, Steve received the Friends of Mineralogy Award, Best Paper of 1984 in The Mineralogical Record. He took First Prize in the Professional Category of the Slide Competition at 37th Annual Tucson Gem and Mineral Show in 1991. In 1997, he was named the Honorary Scholarship recipient for the Eastern Federation. It thrilled him to be allowed to personally select two graduate students in earth science to receive an American Federation scholarship for two years. Steve earned a B.S. in Electrical Engineering with a concentration in mineralogy from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in 1968 and a Ph.D. from Syracuse University in Sensory Science in 1978. He is a professor of bioengineering and neuroscience at Syracuse University, and he is a specialist in invertebrate visual anatomy, engineering analysis of living systems, engineering education and mineralogy. He has been an Affiliate Professor of Earth Sciences at Syracuse University since 1992. For several years Steve also served as the Dean of Engineering. In addition, he is a Research Professor of Ophthalmology and Anatomy and Cell Biology at SUNY Health Science Center. He is a member of ARVO, ASEE, Society for Neuroscience, Tau Beta Pi, and Sigma Xi. From 1992-1994, he served on the Board of Directors of the Friends of Mineralogy. In 1995 he was made a Fellow in the Rochester Academy of Science. Until recently, he was also the curator of the Oren Root Collection at Hamilton College for nearly 20 years. In addition to all his mineral related activities, Steve has a number of other interests. He has 2500 identified hosta plants in his yard plantings and does his own crosses (plant pollination). When he went down in the Alvin 2 1/2 miles deep to the Mid Atlantic Ridge a few years ago to study the black smokers (hydrothermal vents), he ended up bringing back some small pyrite specimens and a shrimp that turned out to be a new species. He loves opera and even wrote one of his own that was performed at Syracuse University. He is also a faculty sponsor of a fraternity and the women¹s figure skating team. Steve is smart, generous, funny and as dedicated to the study and collecting of minerals as anyone could be. We trust that you will give serious consideration to adding him to the Hall of Fame. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Apr 11 18:42:32 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Fri Apr 11 17:42:32 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sale of uncut rocks, saws, etc Message-ID: <1c9.7ff137a.2bc5fdd9@aol.com> Is there anyone in the Omaha, Ne area who might be interested in buying uncut rocks, saws, polishers, etc. The owner was a rockhound for many years. This is to close an estate. Lots of great rocks available, plus equipment. Thanks for any help you may give. Is there an local club here in Ne that we might contact? From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Apr 11 18:42:34 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (jason l box) Date: Fri Apr 11 17:42:34 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Indiana collecting Message-ID: <20030410.134549.232.4.boxsboxs@juno.com> Hello, I am a new rockhound that has been doing this for abot 2 years. I live in Richmond Indiana along the whitewater gorge. I am trying to find new sites to hunt or well known sites I have never heard of. I can find an abundant supply of fossils and geodes, but I would like to find nice mineral specimins. Also any help you could give on polishing fossils or splitting goedes would be helpful. The only Indiana collecting sites I have found on the web have the road cuts south of Bloomington. I would appreciate any help or advise you could give thanks. Jason Box From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Apr 11 18:42:37 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (John McLaughlin) Date: Fri Apr 11 17:42:37 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mystery Specimen Message-ID: <3E95C666.A65968BF@amug.org> Hi All, I am reposting, with the author's permission, a message that appeared on usfgfaceterslist@yahoogroups.com. The specimen in question was going to be faceted, but the author was fascinated by the crystal formation and he instantly became a mineral collector. This specimen does not look anything like amethyst to me. If this is quartz I need to get some new books. I see only four sides to the crystal with a flat top. Barite? Anhydrite? What do you think it is? John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona . . . . In usfgfaceterslist@yahoogroups.com, "lookoutforjohnson" wrote: A few days ago when I was getting some rough ready to cut, I noticed that one of the "flat" crystal surfaces on a piece of Brazilian Amethyst was slightly bumpy. As I looked closer positioning the piece under the lamp, I noticed what looked like a birds-eye view of a city skyline complete with 30 story buildings. It was one of the most amazing things I've seen in my short time faceting. Don't think I have the heart now to facet the stone which is a terrific clear dark purple color. The stone looks like a hologram of a city on the surface. The city is quite fascinating to see - maybe old-hat to some more experienced rock collectors. I took about fifty photographs trying to capture the image and will try to get one posted on the USFG "photos" directory as soon as I get the rest downloaded from the camera. In the meanwhile, I did put one picture on my homepage if anyone wants to see it. URL is (no www in this URL) http://GemRough.home.att.net . John, Lexington KY From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Apr 11 19:33:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Apr 11 18:33:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Indiana collecting References: <20030410.134549.232.4.boxsboxs@juno.com> Message-ID: <3E976C95.57B3@Tomaszewski.net> Jason, I can help you with a trick for splitting geodes. You will need a good heavy vise, two triangle files, and some tape. Tape one of the triangle files to each of the faces of the vise, a flat side against the vise faces. Hold a geode between the pointed ridges of the two files, and tighten the vise. Keep tightening and the pressure from the two file ridges will eventually pop the geode in half (or break the vise) along the line between the points of contact. Wear safety glasses. You might want some padding under the vise as the split geode pieces tend to jump out of the vise when it splits. It usually makes a clean/flat break. Kreigh jason l box wrote: > > Hello, > I am a new rockhound that has been doing this for abot 2 years. I > live in Richmond Indiana along the whitewater gorge. I am trying to find > new sites to hunt or well known sites I have never heard of. I can find > an abundant supply of fossils and geodes, but I would like to find nice > mineral specimins. Also any help you could give on polishing fossils or > splitting goedes would be helpful. The only Indiana collecting sites I > have found on the web have the road cuts south of Bloomington. I would > appreciate any help or advise you could give thanks. Jason Box From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Apr 11 20:12:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Pete Richards) Date: Fri Apr 11 19:12:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mystery Specimen In-Reply-To: <3E95C666.A65968BF@amug.org> Message-ID: That's a great picture, both technically and aesthetically! But we need to see another view from the top, and we need to know what color it is in transmitted light. Then maybe we can tell what it is. Regards, Pete Richards >Hi All, > >I am reposting, with the author's permission, a message that appeared on >usfgfaceterslist@yahoogroups.com. The specimen in question was going to >be faceted, but the author was fascinated by the crystal formation and >he instantly became a mineral collector. > >This specimen does not look anything like amethyst to me. If this is >quartz I need to get some new books. I see only four sides to the >crystal with a flat top. Barite? Anhydrite? What do you think it is? > >John McLaughlin >Glendale, Arizona > >. . . . In usfgfaceterslist@yahoogroups.com, "lookoutforjohnson" > wrote: A few days ago when I was getting some rough ready >to cut, I noticed that one of the "flat" crystal surfaces on a piece of >Brazilian Amethyst was slightly bumpy. As I looked closer positioning >the piece under the lamp, I noticed what looked like a birds-eye view of >a city skyline complete with 30 story buildings. It was one of the most >amazing things I've seen in my short time faceting. Don't think I have >the heart now to facet the stone which is a terrific clear dark purple >color. The stone looks like a hologram of a city on the surface. The >city is quite fascinating to see - maybe old-hat to some more >experienced rock collectors. I took about fifty photographs trying to >capture the image and will try to get one posted on the USFG "photos" >directory as soon as I get the rest downloaded from the camera. In the >meanwhile, I did put one picture on my homepage if anyone wants to see >it. URL is (no www in this URL) http://GemRough.home.att.net . >John, Lexington KY > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Apr 11 20:13:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Stan Perry) Date: Fri Apr 11 19:13:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Indiana collecting In-Reply-To: <3E976C95.57B3@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <20030412021229.56374.qmail@web11106.mail.yahoo.com> Hi All, A quick note on the best tool I have seen for naturally cracking geodes. Cast Iron soil pipe cutters as seen here; http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/viewimage.x/00000000/herbjones/2831f.jpg Mine is a slightly different model but should work much the same. You can find these on Ebay or in Pawn Shops which is where I got mine. Anywhere around $100 is a decent price to pay. I have cracked 100's of geodes with mine and have a 95% plus success rate in getting them to split in 2 pieces. Be sure to see the articles on the recent geode bonanza due to Road construction near Hannibal, MO in the latest Mineral News and a second article coming soon in Rocks and Minerals. Rare pick scalenohedrons, and pagoda structures in iridescent brown calcite. Unfortunately the best collecting is over along with the road construction. As for Indiana Collecting try attending the Bloomington Indiana Swap in June where you should be able to see plenty of Indiana specimens and get to talk with local collectors as well as the other 100's of swapper/dealers there. For a quick review of the show you can got to my report on the 2001 show; http://emineralshow.com/show2.htm Cheers, Stan Perry www.emineralshow.com Our Gangue Minerals > > jason l box wrote: > > > > Hello, > > I am a new rockhound that has been doing this > for abot 2 years. I > > live in Richmond Indiana along the whitewater > gorge. I am trying to find > > new sites to hunt or well known sites I have never > heard of. I can find > > an abundant supply of fossils and geodes, but I > would like to find nice > > mineral specimins. Also any help you could give on > polishing fossils or > > splitting goedes would be helpful. The only > Indiana collecting sites I > > have found on the web have the road cuts south of > Bloomington. I would > > appreciate any help or advise you could give > thanks. Jason Box > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ===== Stan Perry Our Gangue Minerals www.emineralshow.com Ebay seller ID rgangue e-mail at rgangue@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Apr 11 20:44:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Apr 11 19:44:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mystery Specimen References: Message-ID: <3E977D66.112E@Tomaszewski.net> I couldn't get any of the pictures on the website to display (and I used multiple browsers on both Windows and Macintosh). This sounds really interesting. Any chance you could mail me a picture or two? Kreigh Pete Richards wrote: > > That's a great picture, both technically and aesthetically! But we need to see another view from the top, and we need to know what color it is in transmitted light. Then maybe we can tell what it is. > > Regards, > Pete Richards > > >Hi All, > > > >I am reposting, with the author's permission, a message that appeared on > >usfgfaceterslist@yahoogroups.com. The specimen in question was going to > >be faceted, but the author was fascinated by the crystal formation and > >he instantly became a mineral collector. > > > >This specimen does not look anything like amethyst to me. If this is > >quartz I need to get some new books. I see only four sides to the > >crystal with a flat top. Barite? Anhydrite? What do you think it is? > > > >John McLaughlin > >Glendale, Arizona > > > >. . . . In usfgfaceterslist@yahoogroups.com, "lookoutforjohnson" > > wrote: A few days ago when I was getting some rough ready > >to cut, I noticed that one of the "flat" crystal surfaces on a piece of > >Brazilian Amethyst was slightly bumpy. As I looked closer positioning > >the piece under the lamp, I noticed what looked like a birds-eye view of > >a city skyline complete with 30 story buildings. It was one of the most > >amazing things I've seen in my short time faceting. Don't think I have > >the heart now to facet the stone which is a terrific clear dark purple > >color. The stone looks like a hologram of a city on the surface. The > >city is quite fascinating to see - maybe old-hat to some more > >experienced rock collectors. I took about fifty photographs trying to > >capture the image and will try to get one posted on the USFG "photos" > >directory as soon as I get the rest downloaded from the camera. In the > >meanwhile, I did put one picture on my homepage if anyone wants to see > >it. URL is (no www in this URL) http://GemRough.home.att.net . > >John, Lexington KY > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > R. Peter Richards > rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu > > Mineral collector > Crystallographer > SHAPE for the Macintosh > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Apr 11 21:52:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Dave Guin) Date: Fri Apr 11 20:52:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds.com rip? (R.I.P.) References: Message-ID: <3E978D4B.9010906@earthlink.net> Gary Brown wrote: >BlankSo, is Bob's Rockshop on-line (www.rockhounds.com) "officially" dead or >"just resting"? I just tried the URL and went to never-never land. > You scared me with your subject line. There is a significant difference between rip and R.I.P. LOL The info I have gotten is that Bob is OK. He is dealing with other things right now. We do NOT know (yet) if he will put Bob's Rockshop back together when he returns or not. Hope springs eternal in the human breast. Peace, dave From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Apr 11 22:38:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Apr 11 21:38:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tests for Silver References: <3E8A5A0F.5E7A@Tomaszewski.net> <001c01c2f8f1$8d07ca60$369e77d5@pandora.be> <3E90FC32.7956@Tomaszewski.net> <005b01c2fd21$885030a0$0a9d77d5@pandora.be> <3E9257A3.25A4@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <3E9797EC.4A73@Tomaszewski.net> Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > Hi Kreigh > > | > > | That's a great test, but it really doesn't meet my needs. I'm > > > > I even have a simpeler and probably faster one: > > Rub the silver witch a freshly cut piece of onion or garlic... I should turn > > brown in a few second due to the sulfur compounds that cause the specific > > smell of these "vegetables" (mercaptanes). The test worked for me on some known silverware, but did not work for my correspondent (on the specimen, or some known silverware). Any more ideas on testing for silver -- or why this test didn't work on a known silver specimen? > > That is a winner! I knew there was a safe, simple test I had heard of > before, but I was frustrated by not being able to remember or find it. > > > > > That led me to boiling calcium oxide (lime) with raw egg white and a > > How older the egg how better it works... The Chinese would burry an > > That's a fun one... Kreigh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Apr 12 01:13:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Apr 12 00:13:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds.com rip? (R.I.P.) In-Reply-To: <3E978D4B.9010906@earthlink.net> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030411204208.029434d0@mail.aloha.net> "Bob's Rock Shop: The biggest rock, mineral and gem site on the web" "Bob's Rock Shop: The best on the web!" Above are quotes I found last year from two different websites in Australia. I expect there are similar tributes from other countries. Let's hope Bob decides to reinstate his superb---and internationally respected---site. Aloha, Kitty At 05:51 PM 4/11/2003, you wrote: >Gary Brown wrote: > >>BlankSo, is Bob's Rockshop on-line (www.rockhounds.com) "officially" dead or >>"just resting"? I just tried the URL and went to never-never land. >You scared me with your subject line. There is a significant difference >between rip and R.I.P. LOL > >The info I have gotten is that Bob is OK. He is dealing with other things >right now. We do NOT know (yet) if he will put Bob's Rockshop back >together when he returns or not. Hope springs eternal in the human breast. > >Peace, >dave > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.467 / Virus Database: 266 - Release Date: 4/1/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.467 / Virus Database: 266 - Release Date: 4/1/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Apr 12 06:21:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Apr 12 05:21:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tests for Silver References: <3E8A5A0F.5E7A@Tomaszewski.net> <001c01c2f8f1$8d07ca60$369e77d5@pandora.be> <3E90FC32.7956@Tomaszewski.net> <005b01c2fd21$885030a0$0a9d77d5@pandora.be> <3E9257A3.25A4@Tomaszewski.net> <3E9797EC.4A73@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <003f01c300ee$5479f100$c59e77d5@pandora.be> Hi Kreigh, a reason that the test might fail on silverware: some silverware is made of an alloy of silver and various other metals to provide resistance against corrosion. These alloys are visually undistinguishable from silver. Silver will color any metal, including copper and gold, in its typicall white color if there's 10% or more silver in the alloy. a reason for the test to fail on specimens: the silver has been sprayed with acrylic spray or clear nail polish to prevent corrosion. Some dealers do this to avoid having to clean the silver for each mineral show they go to. Such a specimen will not react, even when drowned in garlic juice. Cheers Axel Emmermann Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen MINERANT 2003 - Mineralen en fossielen beurs Dit jaar NIEUWE LOCATIE! "Stuurboord - hangar 26-27", Rijnkaai 96, Antwerpen. Grote parking ! Waar: Scheldekaaien naast de ATV-studio's ter hoogte vd Londonstraat. Route: http://www.stuurboord.com/gif/map.gif http://www.minerant.org/MKA/minerantnl.html Werkgroepen Fluorescentie & Technische Realisaties Home : Lobbesplein 12 B-2640 Mortsel Belgium Tel: +32 (0)3 295.35.54 E-mail: axel.emmermann@pandora.be Visit our homepage: http://www.minerant.org/index.html Bezoek onze web-site: http://www.minerant.org/MKA/index.html My own web-site: http://users.pandora.be/axel.emmerman/home/index.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 6:43 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Tests for Silver | Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: | > | > Axel Emmermann wrote: | > > | > > Hi Kreigh | > > | | > > | That's a great test, but it really doesn't meet my needs. I'm | > > | > > I even have a simpeler and probably faster one: | > > Rub the silver witch a freshly cut piece of onion or garlic... I should turn | > > brown in a few second due to the sulfur compounds that cause the specific | > > smell of these "vegetables" (mercaptanes). | | The test worked for me on some known silverware, but did not work for my | correspondent (on the specimen, or some known silverware). | | Any more ideas on testing for silver -- or why this test didn't work on | a known silver specimen? | | | > | > That is a winner! I knew there was a safe, simple test I had heard of | > before, but I was frustrated by not being able to remember or find it. | > | > > | > > That led me to boiling calcium oxide (lime) with raw egg white and a | > > How older the egg how better it works... The Chinese would burry an | > | > That's a fun one... | | Kreigh | _______________________________________________ | Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List | WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds | Subscription Services: | http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds | | From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Apr 12 08:22:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sat Apr 12 07:22:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Indiana collecting Message-ID: In a message dated 4/11/2003 8:43:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, boxsboxs@juno.com writes: > I am trying to find > new sites to hunt or well known sites I have never heard of. I got a couple of calcite and dolomite specimens in an old collection labeled: Clifty Falls State Park, Madison, Indiana John Betts http://www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Apr 12 10:15:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Michael Schmidt) Date: Sat Apr 12 09:15:02 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Indiana collecting References: <20030410.134549.232.4.boxsboxs@juno.com> <3E976C95.57B3@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <004e01c3010e$b0df9b00$21ca94d1@remains> for splitting geodes, do what the Brazillians do.... take a rope (it's can't be a plastic/synthetic fiber, really should be rope- slow burning), soak it in gasoline, wrap it tightly around the geode and light it on fire. A stress fracture will soon appear. give it a tap, and voila!!! an even split right along the internal fracture ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 7:37 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Indiana collecting > Jason, > > I can help you with a trick for splitting geodes. You will need a good > heavy vise, two triangle files, and some tape. > > Tape one of the triangle files to each of the faces of the vise, a flat > side against the vise faces. Hold a geode between the pointed ridges of > the two files, and tighten the vise. Keep tightening and the pressure > from the two file ridges will eventually pop the geode in half (or break > the vise) along the line between the points of contact. Wear safety > glasses. You might want some padding under the vise as the split geode > pieces tend to jump out of the vise when it splits. It usually makes a > clean/flat break. > > Kreigh > > > > > jason l box wrote: > > > > Hello, > > I am a new rockhound that has been doing this for abot 2 years. I > > live in Richmond Indiana along the whitewater gorge. I am trying to find > > new sites to hunt or well known sites I have never heard of. I can find > > an abundant supply of fossils and geodes, but I would like to find nice > > mineral specimins. Also any help you could give on polishing fossils or > > splitting goedes would be helpful. The only Indiana collecting sites I > > have found on the web have the road cuts south of Bloomington. I would > > appreciate any help or advise you could give thanks. Jason Box > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Apr 12 11:25:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Nathan C. Martin II) Date: Sat Apr 12 10:25:02 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Indiana collecting In-Reply-To: <20030410.134549.232.4.boxsboxs@juno.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030412131517.01d636c0@po2.bbn.com> Jason, The best advice that I can give you is to join a local Mineral Club. I grew up in Anderson, Indiana but did not get turned on to mineral collecting until I was in my 40's and living in Massachusetts. Every now and then I see a calcite specimen from one of the crushed rock quarries near Anderson I realize what I missed and it breaks my heart. A local club will know which quarries are productive and will hopefully have the contacts that will allow them to take club trips on a regular basis. A local club will also have people that you can learn from. I floundered around for several years collecting on my own before joining the Boston Mineral Club and it was the best thing I ever did. I don't know any of the Indiana clubs but I'll bet that someone on the list can give you some suggestions. Happy hunting, Nate Martin Lexington, MA At 02:37 PM 4/10/2003, you wrote: >Hello, > I am a new rockhound that has been doing this for abot 2 years. I >live in Richmond Indiana along the whitewater gorge. I am trying to find >new sites to hunt or well known sites I have never heard of. I can find >an abundant supply of fossils and geodes, but I would like to find nice >mineral specimins. Also any help you could give on polishing fossils or >splitting goedes would be helpful. The only Indiana collecting sites I >have found on the web have the road cuts south of Bloomington. I would >appreciate any help or advise you could give thanks. Jason Box >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Apr 12 19:25:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Stephen stover) Date: Sat Apr 12 18:25:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mystery Specimen In-Reply-To: <3E977D66.112E@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <20030413012441.66084.qmail@web20003.mail.yahoo.com> That looks alot like a crstal of Slicon Carbide that my dad has. SiCi is grinding grit. The stuff is made in blast furnaces and sometimes you get "Geodes" with crystals. That is what is looks like to me. --- Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > I couldn't get any of the pictures on the website to > display (and I used > multiple browsers on both Windows and Macintosh). > This sounds really > interesting. Any chance you could mail me a picture > or two? > > Kreigh > > > > Pete Richards wrote: > > > > That's a great picture, both technically and > aesthetically! But we need to see another view from > the top, and we need to know what color it is in > transmitted light. Then maybe we can tell what it > is. > > > > Regards, > > Pete Richards > > > > >Hi All, > > > > > >I am reposting, with the author's permission, a > message that appeared on > > >usfgfaceterslist@yahoogroups.com. The specimen > in question was going to > > >be faceted, but the author was fascinated by the > crystal formation and > > >he instantly became a mineral collector. > > > > > >This specimen does not look anything like > amethyst to me. If this is > > >quartz I need to get some new books. I see only > four sides to the > > >crystal with a flat top. Barite? Anhydrite? > What do you think it is? > > > > > >John McLaughlin > > >Glendale, Arizona > > > > > >. . . . In usfgfaceterslist@yahoogroups.com, > "lookoutforjohnson" > > > wrote: A few days ago when I was > getting some rough ready > > >to cut, I noticed that one of the "flat" crystal > surfaces on a piece of > > >Brazilian Amethyst was slightly bumpy. As I > looked closer positioning > > >the piece under the lamp, I noticed what looked > like a birds-eye view of > > >a city skyline complete with 30 story buildings. > It was one of the most > > >amazing things I've seen in my short time > faceting. Don't think I have > > >the heart now to facet the stone which is a > terrific clear dark purple > > >color. The stone looks like a hologram of a city > on the surface. The > > >city is quite fascinating to see - maybe old-hat > to some more > > >experienced rock collectors. I took about fifty > photographs trying to > > >capture the image and will try to get one posted > on the USFG "photos" > > >directory as soon as I get the rest downloaded > from the camera. In the > > >meanwhile, I did put one picture on my homepage > if anyone wants to see > > >it. URL is (no www in this URL) > http://GemRough.home.att.net . > > >John, Lexington KY > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > >Subscription Services: > > > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > R. Peter Richards > > rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu > > > > Mineral collector > > Crystallographer > > SHAPE for the Macintosh > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ===== Stephen F. Stover PH (281) 829-1102 xossfs@yahoo.com Wanting to hunt rocks and play games every day! __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Apr 15 13:00:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (JAMES BUDNIK) Date: Tue Apr 15 12:00:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gem and Mineral show and sale information Message-ID: Do you have wholesale dealers? =20 =20 ----- Original Message ----- From: rocksndogs Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 12:54 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Gem and Mineral show and sale information =20 My name is Kathy Fronk. Dealer chair for the Central Illinois Gem and Mi= neral Club. Our Club show is being held on May 10-11, 2003 at the Civic = Center in downtown Decatur, Illinois. I am looking for swappers for our = swap area. Anything related to the rock hobby is acceptable. Rocks, mine= rals, books, equipment, stone jewelry. No beanie babies and such. Swap = tables are $20.00 for the weekend. It's an easy way to trade off your st= uff for stuff you don't have. We plan to use swapper dollars (Like the C= incinatti, Ohio show) which will be accepted by all the professional deal= ers at our show. I am also looking for some demonstrators. We want to keep the hobby aliv= e, and one way to do that is to introduce the public to new things. Demo= nstrators are the heart of any good show. Show the people what rock houn= ds can do! Beaders, faceters, lapidaries, If you work with your stone, a= nd you are willing to be a show off for two days- we want you !!! You can contact me through the club website at - www.cigmc.com Keep = on rock'n !!! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Apr 15 20:24:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Apr 15 19:24:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] an important visit at the MKA??? References: <3E8A5A0F.5E7A@Tomaszewski.net> <001c01c2f8f1$8d07ca60$369e77d5@pandora.be> <3E90FC32.7956@Tomaszewski.net> <005b01c2fd21$885030a0$0a9d77d5@pandora.be> <3E9257A3.25A4@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <3E9CBE86.6A4C@Tomaszewski.net> Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > By the way, we > > are expecting an important visit at the MKA. I'll keep you informd. > > That sounds interesting. > Much more interesting than the freezing rain > and resulting ice (down trees, and power outages) we've been having > since Friday evening. > > > Can't say anything right now but if you haven't heard from me by > > next monday just ask! We've got more freezing rain in the forecast for Thursday. Have you got something more interesting you can announce now that Monday is past? You did say I should ask... Kreigh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Apr 15 21:41:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Tue Apr 15 20:41:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ad: Spring Sale - Pyromorphite.com Message-ID: <143.eec316c.2bce2aa5@aol.com> this is an AD, delete if not interested... visit www.pyromorphite.com for our spring clearance sale. From now until end of May, when you buy one specimen, get a second, of equal or lesser value, free! (except for a few specially marked items). Don't miss this great deal! Recent updates include a wide variety of strontianite, celestite, and wavellite specimens as well as minerals from Nevada. we accept Paypal, as well as cash, check, or money orders thanks for looking! Jeff www.pyromorphite.com From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 16 06:10:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Apr 16 05:10:02 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] an important visit at the MKA??? References: <3E8A5A0F.5E7A@Tomaszewski.net> <001c01c2f8f1$8d07ca60$369e77d5@pandora.be> <3E90FC32.7956@Tomaszewski.net> <005b01c2fd21$885030a0$0a9d77d5@pandora.be> <3E9257A3.25A4@Tomaszewski.net> <3E9CBE86.6A4C@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <006a01c30410$ca929de0$b29f77d5@pandora.be> Hi Kreigh Oh well, we had a visit at the MKA. Dr, Everett K. Gibson Jr., senior scientist at NASA, made a stop in Antwerp while travelling from the USA to London. We had the privilege to get to know him a little and attend his absolutely fascinating speech about possible life on Mars. We were and still are in a state of shock ;-)))) Dr. Gibson also didn't come empty handed. He gave me a personal gift from John Young, one of NASA's most seasoned astronauts who NEVER gives autographs. Well, I have one now! It's a collage of Captain John Young's missions and a personal "thank you" for not letting go to waste the samples that were brought back to earth. I included a picture (greyed out the signature out of respect. If Cpt Young doesn't give autographs, I don't think it would be appropriate to throw this one exception on the internet ;-)))) I'm in the middle of spring cleaning and the wife calls ;-)))) goto go...... Talk to you later. Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 4:30 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] an important visit at the MKA??? > Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > > > By the way, we > > > are expecting an important visit at the MKA. I'll keep you informd. > > > > That sounds interesting. > > Much more interesting than the freezing rain > > and resulting ice (down trees, and power outages) we've been having > > since Friday evening. > > > > > Can't say anything right now but if you haven't heard from me by > > > next monday just ask! > > We've got more freezing rain in the forecast for Thursday. Have you got > something more interesting you can announce now that Monday is past? You > did say I should ask... > > Kreigh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) image/jpeg --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 16 06:32:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Wed Apr 16 05:32:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] an important visit at the MKA??? Message-ID: <200304161231.h3GCVTEK001784@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Well congratulations! By the feedback from NASA, it did not seem likely that a chip of moon rock would be in the offering. However, I think this personal memento is even more meaningful and special. Don From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 16 07:35:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (horstwindisch) Date: Wed Apr 16 06:35:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Museums in crisis? Message-ID: <001a01c3041b$71761ce0$534227c4@horstspc> Hi List, Recently had a letter (dated 23rd March 2003) from friends of mine = residing near Phoenix, Arizona, with a sentence that sounded rather = disturbing. Quote:-"Our state of Arizona is in a terrible financial = bind. So the legislature is cutting out all the "unnecessary" = departments. They are ready to close the Department of Mines and = Minerals and the Mineral Museum with it. They want to sell off all the = mineral specimens, etc. Of course we are all doing our best to convince = them that that is not a good idea. They will bring it for a vote in the = next few weeks. Of course our Governor is a militant woman who would = probably rather throw rocks than collect them. Keep your fingers crossed = for us, and maybe a prayer or two wouldn't hurt". Surely if this came to pass, this would have a serious impact on the = future of our hobby? I am sitting far away in South Africa, but is there = not something that some gem and mineral collectors in the USA can do to = prevent this? Comments please, Horst --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 16 09:34:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Apr 16 08:34:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] an important visit at the MKA??? References: <200304161231.h3GCVTEK001784@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <001901c3042d$637a3a60$b29f77d5@pandora.be> Absolutely Don! A personal "thank you" that will shine proudly on my livingroom wall along with the personal letter of recognition I received from the FBI director personally. It's raining "rewards" in this sense that I had the opportunity to learn what a warm and friendly personality Dr. Gibson is (besides being top notch scientist 8oP). Also the gratitude and respect of my peers which is by far the greatest reward of all. You have no idea how this feels unless you have been there. A fun note: my club chose to honor me for what I did and so they gave me an enormous chunk of New Jersey... Almost big enough to live on... A large calcite/willemite/???(dark unidentified matter) that glows fierce under SW UV. This will definitely become the center piece of my collection. Downside: I don't need a bigger UV cabinet... I need a bigger hobbyroom and one of those Triplebrights to light it up! Don't worry, I checked and there were no people living on this specimen (and if there are, they will get a suntan...... ROFL) So anyone living in Franklin, NJ, watch out for craters in the landscape... that's where my rock came from. Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] an important visit at the MKA??? > > Well congratulations! By the feedback from NASA, it did not seem likely that a > chip of moon rock would be in the offering. However, I think this personal > memento is even more meaningful and special. > > Don > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 16 17:22:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Apr 16 16:22:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geological Wonders (topic revisited) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030416122212.02a30ac0@mail.aloha.net> At 03:39 AM 10/30/2002, you wrote: >Up here on the Bay of Fundy the days are getting shorter, colder, cloudier. >Winter lies ahead. Damn! - time to flee, time to travel - at least in the >mind. .... >Hans Durstling >Moncton, Canada Hans and List: There was an article in the Hilo newspaper (The Hawaii Tribune-Herald) last Sunday on the Kazumura Cave here on the Big Island. Bill and I first moved to Hawaii in 1972, and have been living on the Big Island since 1980, and we'd never heard of this cave, which is "the biggest lava tube on the planet." I cannot find the article on the web, but there are other sites that describe it if you just search for Kazumura Cave. It's over 40 miles long and drops from 3000 feet to sea level. It has a huge variety of strange and delicate formations, and fortunately the people who own the entrance and conduct tours are being very conscientious about protecting the cave and making sure vandals and misguided rockhounds don't damage it. Are things beginning to thaw out up there yet Hans? Aloha, Kitty --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.467 / Virus Database: 266 - Release Date: 4/1/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 16 20:39:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (John McLaughlin) Date: Wed Apr 16 19:39:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Museums in crisis? References: <001a01c3041b$71761ce0$534227c4@horstspc> Message-ID: <3E9E164E.2965F6E8@amug.org> Hi Horst, Trust that the rockhounds in Arizona have been attending the legislative hearings, writing letters, sending e-mails and making phone calls. I have no idea if it will be enough. The Museum collection is outstanding and the staff has done a great job in working with the Phoenix area and state school districts - both arranging field trips to the Museum and providing out reach programs in the class room. The intent is not to sell the collection but to put it with unrelated materials, like at the State Library or the Historical Society. Might as well sell it as place it out of sight and out of reach. The legislature has still not come up with a budget. Till they do no one will know the fate of the Museum. John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona horstwindisch wrote: > Hi List, > > Recently had a letter (dated 23rd March 2003) from friends of mine residing near Phoenix, Arizona, with a sentence that sounded rather disturbing. Quote:-"Our state of Arizona is in a terrible financial bind. So the legislature is cutting out all the "unnecessary" departments. They are ready to close the Department of Mines and Minerals and the Mineral Museum with it. They want to sell off all the mineral specimens, etc. Of course we are all doing our best to convince them that that is not a good idea. They will bring it for a vote in the next few weeks. Of course our Governor is a militant woman who would probably rather throw rocks than collect them. Keep your fingers crossed for us, and maybe a prayer or two wouldn't hurt". > > Surely if this came to pass, this would have a serious impact on the future of our hobby? I am sitting far away in South Africa, but is there not something that some gem and mineral collectors in the USA can do to prevent this? > > Comments please, > Horst From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 16 21:38:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Apr 16 20:38:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] an important visit at the MKA??? In-Reply-To: <001901c3042d$637a3a60$b29f77d5@pandora.be> References: <200304161231.h3GCVTEK001784@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030416164552.02fabd80@mail.aloha.net> At 05:32 AM 4/16/2003, you wrote: >Absolutely Don! >A personal "thank you" that will shine proudly on my livingroom wall along >with the personal letter of recognition I received from the FBI director >personally.... Axel, I think I've missed one or more messages. Am I correct that you got a neat thankyou and a rare autograph, but you did NOT get a moonrock? Oh well, I guess you're not Superman after all! But we're proud of you! Aloha, Kitty --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.467 / Virus Database: 266 - Release Date: 4/1/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Apr 17 06:38:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Apr 17 05:38:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] an important visit at the MKA??? References: <200304161231.h3GCVTEK001784@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20030416164552.02fabd80@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <001f01c304de$1714dd40$a3ab77d5@pandora.be> >Axel, I think I've missed one or more messages. Am I correct that you got >a neat thankyou and a rare autograph, but you did NOT get a moonrock? >Aloha, Kitty Yes Kitty! A photo-collage of Capt. John Young's missions whit a signed personal thank you message. And, as I said already, moonrock are for ALL people... not just one individual ;-))) >Oh well, I guess you're not Superman after all! But we're proud of you! Darn, you've unmasked me! 8oD))))))) Axel From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Apr 17 15:02:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Rik Dillen) Date: Thu Apr 17 14:02:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Important NASA-visit Message-ID: <002801c30524$86f01b70$44c5c950@maxdata> Dear colleagues, =20 This week we experienced a fantastic event here in Antwerp. During one = of his missions in Europe (Great-Britain, in fact), Dr. Everett K. Gibson, Jr., one of the top-scientists of the NASA, found (or = better : made) the time to visit Antwerp, together with Axel Emmermann (remember the stolen moon-rocks affair of last year) and = Paul Van hee. After a visit of the historical centre of Antwerp and, of course, the world-famous diamond museum, Dr. Gibson = participated in our monthly club meeting. =20 First he praised Axel for his invaluable help in the retrieval of the = stolen moonrocks last year. Both Dr. Gibson and Axel were really touched, and we are quite confident that events like this will = stimulate other high level scientists to recognise the benefits of cooperation between professional, semi-professional amateur = mineralogists/geologists. We hope also that such actions can enhance the credibility of all bona fide mineralogical = hobby-associations. =20 After a short ceremony, Dr. Gibson presented a talk on the investigation = of Mars in the past, today, and the future. I can assure you that this was a lecture beyond any expectations. Hearing such = interesting information from the mouth of the most prominent specialist in this matter is a rare and greatly appreciated privilege = for a non-official, non governmental society like ours... Although several professional earth scientists are among our members, we = are an amateur mineralogy club after all. =20 Dr. Gibson gave us a passionate lecture about his work, the first Mars = Missions and their results, the origin and travels of the Martian meteorites that landed on earth and the study of possible traces = of ancient life contained in them, about the recent and near-future Mars missions, and the Beagle 2 Mars lander that will be = launched shortly, to land on Mars around Christmas this year. =20 I can assure you that this was a club-evening we will always remember, = and in our notules it can surely be described as a "coup de th=E9=E2tre" ! We were more than proud to welcome such an eminent = scientist in our modest monthly meeting. About 120 persons were present, which is significantly more than the 80 we usually have. Also = the press was present and we had a quarter-page article in our newspaper. =20 Greetings, =20 Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15 B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium =20 Tel. + 32 3 7706007 E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be =20 Homepage : = http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list =20 Mineral collector's page = http://www.minerant.org/ >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! =20 MINERANT 2003 - Minerals and fossils show ATTENTION ! NEW LOCATION ! "Stuurboord - hangar 26-27", Rijnkaai 96, B-2000 Antwerpen 10 ' north of "Het Steen", Schelde - see = = http://www.stuurboord.com/gif/map.gif Large parking lot ! = http://www.minerant.org/MKA/minerantnl.html =20 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Apr 17 20:08:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rocksndogs) Date: Thu Apr 17 19:08:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gem Show Coming Message-ID: <000c01c3054f$433c81e0$ba64c343@computer> Come to the Central Illinois Gem and Mineral Club's 51st annual show at = the Decatur Civic Center in Decatur Illinois. On May 10-11, 2003. = Register to win a free 4.5ct blue topaz mounted in 14K gold with diamond = accents! 17 Dealers, a working sluice, kids area, and more! Show hours = are 10am to 7pm May 10th, 10am to 5pm May 11th !! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Apr 18 08:50:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Gary Brown) Date: Fri Apr 18 07:50:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Masmils/PLUS for South Dakota Message-ID: BlankSpring has GOT to be around here somewhere! We had our two days of record-breaking 89 degree weather, and now its back to ice-cold rain and snow. You just have to love the "Symphony of Seasons" here in Minnesota. (Ya sure...you betcha!) But... summer WILL arrive and I WILL get out rockhounding. Here's a sample of where I want to go... the northern Black Hills! Check out Lawrence County, home of the Homestake Gold Mine. Go to: http://www.catspaw-minerals.com and click on the "Sample MasMils" button on the left. Ok... here's the PLUG... I've got a lot of copies up of my MasMils/PLUS on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3226&item=2170405477 and http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4668&item=301926646 Have a great weekend! Wish me luck... I should be finishing up wiring my new bedroom in the attic. Next phase: display cases for my minerals. Regards, Gary Brown Catspaw Minerals Home of MasMils/PLUS http://www.catspaw-minerals.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/gif --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Apr 18 13:17:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Teresa Masters) Date: Fri Apr 18 12:17:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Masmils/PLUS for South Dakota References: Message-ID: <3EA04EFD.A3FFD84@cox.net> Gary, Is it available for the Mac? Thanks, Terrie From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Apr 18 13:45:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Gary Brown) Date: Fri Apr 18 12:45:02 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Masmils/PLUS for South Dakota In-Reply-To: <3EA04EFD.A3FFD84@cox.net> Message-ID: Hi Terrie: Being that the disk has data on it, and not executables (except for an "archival" copy of the original USBM MasMils program) it should be readable in any Mac that can handle a PC-formatted CD. Of course, the Microsoft Access and Dbase data are in will probably not be of much use, but the big, fat comma-delimited file would be fun to play with. For the most part, though, the thing that you would probably want to able to use are my county extracts (such as the sample data). I've got a file for EACH county in EVERY state (plus a bunch of foreign stuff). I assume that the Mac version of DeLorme Street Atlas can probably read the same text files as the Windows version (try it with my SoDak sample to find out...and let me know). Regards, GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Teresa Masters > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 2:16 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Masmils/PLUS for South Dakota > > > Gary, > Is it available for the Mac? > Thanks, > Terrie From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Apr 18 14:58:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Apr 18 13:58:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Masmils/PLUS for South Dakota In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Both Macs and PC's ( and I assume Linux systems too) use the same universal CDROM format called, IIRC, red book format. So both types of systems can read all CDs. Bryan > Being that the disk has data on it, and not executables (except for an > "archival" copy of the original USBM MasMils program) it should > be readable > in any Mac that can handle a PC-formatted CD. Of course, the Microsoft > Access and Dbase data are in will probably not be of much use, > but the big, > fat comma-delimited file would be fun to play with. For the most part, > though, the thing that you would probably want to able to use are > my county > extracts (such as the sample data). I've got a file for EACH county in > EVERY state (plus a bunch of foreign stuff). > > I assume that the Mac version of DeLorme Street Atlas can > probably read the > same text files as the Windows version (try it with my SoDak > sample to find > out...and let me know). > > Regards, > GcB > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Teresa Masters > > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 2:16 PM > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Masmils/PLUS for South Dakota > > > > > > Gary, > > Is it available for the Mac? > > Thanks, > > Terrie > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Apr 19 10:01:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sat Apr 19 09:01:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Indiana collecting Message-ID: <10c.22bf05f3.2bd2cca1@cs.com> In a message dated 4/11/2003 10:15:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rgangue@yahoo.com writes: > A quick note on the best tool I have seen for > naturally cracking geodes. Cast Iron soil pipe > cutters as seen here; I have to agree with using this tool to crack geodes. We crack many geodes during our our annual gem and mineral show each year using the pipe cutter. However, they will not cut very small geodes (under 2 inches in diameter), rather they will crush them (we use a diamond saw for this). We used to cut all of them using a diamond saw. This got rather messy with the oil. I would not recommend using the rope and gasoline idea. It does work. But, it is unsafe - not to mention dealing the fumes. Just my two cents. Mark --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Apr 19 19:39:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Rik Dillen) Date: Sat Apr 19 18:39:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Important NASA-visit Message-ID: <000601c3050c$a5d3bf50$44c5c950@maxdata> Dear colleagues, =20 This week we experienced a fantastic event here in Antwerp. During one = of his missions in Europe (Great-Britain, in fact), Dr. Everett K. Gibson, Jr., one of the top-scientists of the NASA, found (or = better : made) the time to visit Antwerp, together with Axel Emmermann (remember the stolen moon-rocks affair of last year) and = Paul Van hee. After a visit of the historical centre of Antwerp and, of course, the world-famous diamond museum, Dr. Gibson = participated in our monthly club meeting. =20 First he praised Axel for his invaluable help in the retrieval of the = stolen moonrocks last year. Both Dr. Gibson and Axel were really touched, and we are quite confident that events like this will = stimulate other high level scientists to recognise the benefits of cooperation between professional, semi-professional amateur = mineralogists/geologists. We hope also that such actions can enhance the credibility of all bona fide mineralogical = hobby-associations. =20 After a short ceremony, Dr. Gibson presented a talk on the investigation = of Mars in the past, today, and the future. I can assure you that this was a lecture beyond any expectations. Hearing such = interesting information from the mouth of the most prominent specialist in this matter is a rare and greatly appreciated privilege = for a non-official, non governmental society like ours... Although several professional earth scientists are among our members, we = are an amateur mineralogy club after all. =20 Dr. Gibson gave us a passionate lecture about his work, the first Mars = Missions and their results, the origin and travels of the Martian meteorites that landed on earth and the study of possible traces = of ancient life contained in them, about the recent and near-future Mars missions, and the Beagle 2 Mars lander that will be = launched shortly, to land on Mars around Christmas this year. =20 I can assure you that this was a club-evening we will always remember, = and in our notules it can surely be described as a "coup de th=E9=E2tre" ! We were more than proud to welcome such an eminent = scientist in our modest monthly meeting. About 120 persons were present, which is significantly more than the 80 we usually have. Also = the press was present and we had a quarter-page article in our newspaper. =20 Greetings, =20 Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15 B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium =20 Tel. + 32 3 7706007 E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be =20 Homepage : = http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list =20 Mineral collector's page = http://www.minerant.org/ >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! =20 MINERANT 2003 - Minerals and fossils show ATTENTION ! NEW LOCATION ! "Stuurboord - hangar 26-27", Rijnkaai 96, B-2000 Antwerpen 10 ' north of "Het Steen", Schelde - see = = http://www.stuurboord.com/gif/map.gif Large parking lot ! = http://www.minerant.org/MKA/minerantnl.html =20 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Apr 19 19:39:33 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Jim and Carolyn Ebsary) Date: Sat Apr 19 18:39:33 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] CCFMS Field Trips to Beamsville and Dundas Quarries Message-ID: <00dd01c306c3$f81941a0$9f7405d1@jimcarolyn> Hello all The Central Canadian Federation of Mineralogical Societies (CCFMS) field trips to Beamsville and Dundas quarries have been confirmed; Beamsville on May 10, Dundas on May11, 2003. Details including date, times, maps, directions, minerals, are on the CCFMS web site www.ccfms.ca follow the field trip links. Any questions, please give me a shout. Cheers The Niagara Peninsula Geological Society Jim Ebsary, Director jime@iaw.on.ca http://www.iaw.on.ca/~jime From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Apr 19 21:29:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sat Apr 19 20:29:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Indiana collecting Message-ID: <19a.13ae86ae.2bd36dd6@aol.com> In a message dated 4/19/03 9:02:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time, AsgardSGC@cs.com writes: > > However, they will not cut very small geodes (under 2 inches in diameter), > rather they will crush them (we use a diamond saw for this). We used to > cut > all of them using a diamond saw. This got rather messy with the oil. I've got a big bag of small (plum sized) geodes. I was thinking of cutting a big piece of bamboo, spliting it back to one of the joints, jam it full of geodes, and run it through my 10 inch saw. Has anybody on the list ever done anything lke that? Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Apr 19 22:16:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Apr 19 21:16:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Indiana collecting References: <19a.13ae86ae.2bd36dd6@aol.com> Message-ID: <3EA21EA1.357F@Tomaszewski.net> Lapadary@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 4/19/03 9:02:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time, AsgardSGC@cs.com > writes: > > > > > However, they will not cut very small geodes (under 2 inches in diameter), > > rather they will crush them (we use a diamond saw for this). We used to > > cut > > all of them using a diamond saw. This got rather messy with the oil. > > I've got a big bag of small (plum sized) geodes. I was thinking of cutting a > big piece of bamboo, spliting it back to one of the joints, jam it full of > geodes, and run it through my 10 inch saw. Has anybody on the list ever done > anything lke that? > > Grant It is a lot easier to pop the smaller geodes in half with a vise that has triangle files taped to the vise faces. You can do them in under a minute each as was explained earlier in this thread. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Apr 19 22:51:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sat Apr 19 21:51:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] cracking geodes Message-ID: <169.1d767eab.2bd380fb@aol.com> In a message dated 4/19/03 9:16:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Kreigh@Tomaszewski.net writes: > It is a lot easier to pop the smaller geodes in half with a vise that > has triangle files taped to the vise faces. You can do them in under a > minute each as was explained earlier in this thread. > Thanks. I think I'll try that. I've got a big vice and my only saw is a 10 inch. The vice trick would save a lot of wear on my blades. I can get a couple cheap files. Some of the small geodes have an opening already and I can see inside. Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Apr 20 06:20:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Thomas Yancey) Date: Sun Apr 20 05:20:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Indiana collecting In-Reply-To: <19a.13ae86ae.2bd36dd6@aol.com> References: <19a.13ae86ae.2bd36dd6@aol.com> Message-ID: This could cause damage to your saw. For the saw to make a clean cut, the geodes (or any rock) must be firmly held in place for the entire cut. Contact with the inner surface of a bamboo stem will not provide much gripping surface. The geode may slip as the blade begins to cut into it, creating a possible jam for the saw, or more likely a big problem will come when the saw is cutting the last of each geode, when each half will shift position and can jam against the blade. Jamming means damage. There is a chance of jamming on each geode and I suspect there will be at least one major jam that will bend or damage the blade. If you are thinking of doing something like this, do it in a traditional manner and set them in plaster. That will hold the geodes/rocks in position after the cut as well as before cutting. Otherwise the shifting of rocks will damage your saw. Tom Y > > However, they will not cut very small geodes (under 2 inches in diameter), >> rather they will crush them (we use a diamond saw for this). We used to >> cut >> all of them using a diamond saw. This got rather messy with the oil. > >I've got a big bag of small (plum sized) geodes. I was thinking of cutting a >big piece of bamboo, spliting it back to one of the joints, jam it full of >geodes, and run it through my 10 inch saw. Has anybody on the list ever done >anything lke that? > >Grant From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Apr 20 14:23:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sun Apr 20 13:23:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Indiana collecting Message-ID: <17c.19c36ed5.2bd45b8c@aol.com> In a message dated 4/20/03 5:20:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time, teyancey@mail.tca.net writes: > That will hold the geodes/rocks in position after the cut as well as before > cutting. > Otherwise the shifting of rocks will damage your saw. > Thanks Tom, If I take out the oil and put in Lube Cool I'll go with the plaster of paris. I don't like cutting that with oil. Also, because of the oil mist I don't like getting in close to hand hold a small geode. I come out looking like a 1 950s Brylcream ad, (Brylcream, a little dab will do you) except I'm bald now. Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Apr 20 18:30:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Apr 20 17:30:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Indiana collecting In-Reply-To: <17c.19c36ed5.2bd45b8c@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030420143102.02948cd0@mail.aloha.net> At 10:22 AM 4/20/2003, you wrote: >If I take out the oil and put in Lube Cool I'll go with the plaster of paris. >I don't like cutting that with oil. Also, because of the oil mist I don't >like getting in close to hand hold a small geode. I come out looking like a 1 >950s Brylcream ad, (Brylcream, a little dab will do you) except I'm bald now. > >Grant Oh, Grant, are you ever dating yourself! Remember (sing along now,):I "Old Spice means quality, said the captain to the bo'sun. So look for the bottle with the ship that sails the ocean." And "Use Ajax! Boom boom, The foaming cleanser! Booboo booboo boom boom! Floats the dirt right down the drain! (Lot's more booboo booms). I'll bet you remember Burmashave signs along the highway, too, as you went off on rock-hunting trips. (Had to throw the last phrase in to keep this on topic.) Aloha, Kitty --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release Date: 4/18/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Apr 20 19:20:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sun Apr 20 18:20:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Indiana collecting Message-ID: <137.1e69b929.2bd4a11d@aol.com> In a message dated 4/20/03 5:30:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time, kahako@aloha.net writes: > I'll bet you remember Burmashave signs along the > highway, too, as you went off on rock-hunting trips. > > (Had to throw the last phrase in to keep this on topic.) > Actually, I remember Burmashave verses along the 'blacktop' roads. In parts of Louisiana unpaved roads had sea shells on them. There wasn't enough gravel to make gravel roads. And shells were dredged up out of the water. Back then the conventional wisdom said swamps should be drained and rivers should be straight. I think I was in third or fourth grade before I saw a rock as big as a softball. Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Apr 20 19:44:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Apr 20 18:44:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Indiana collecting References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030420143102.02948cd0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <3EA34CB2.1693@Tomaszewski.net> Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > At 10:22 AM 4/20/2003, you wrote: > > >If I take out the oil and put in Lube Cool I'll go with the plaster of paris. > >I don't like cutting that with oil. Also, because of the oil mist I don't > >like getting in close to hand hold a small geode. I come out looking like a 1 > >950s Brylcream ad, (Brylcream, a little dab will do you) except I'm bald now. > > > >Grant > > Oh, Grant, are you ever dating yourself! Remember (sing along now,):I "Old > Spice means quality, said the captain to the bo'sun. So look for the bottle > with the ship that sails the ocean." And "Use Ajax! Boom boom, The foaming > cleanser! Booboo booboo boom boom! Floats the dirt right down the drain! > (Lot's more booboo booms). I'll bet you remember Burmashave signs along the > highway, too, as you went off on rock-hunting trips. > > (Had to throw the last phrase in to keep this on topic.) > > Aloha, Kitty > Beneath this stone Lies Elmer Gush Tickled to death By his Shaving Brush Burma Shave From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Apr 20 23:29:03 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (TA Masters) Date: Sun Apr 20 22:29:03 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Indiana collecting References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030420143102.02948cd0@mail.aloha.net> <3EA34CB2.1693@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <3EA38183.20200@cox.net> Kitty, Do you wonder where the yellow went? Teresa From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Apr 21 00:33:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sun Apr 20 23:33:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] CITRINE CHRYSOPRASE Message-ID: <161.1efcede9.2bd4ea87@aol.com> Hello, Tonight I saw a lady wearing a pendent that I couldn't identify. The light=20 was bad -- we were at a concert -- so my first guess was turquoise. My wife=20 said gaspeite. I changed my mind and decided it was varicite.=A0=20 At the break I saw a jeweler I know. We hunted up that lady so he could see=20 it. His first guess was variquoise, a stone that some people say does not=20 even=20 exist. However, after lifting it to feel the weight he said it was citrine=20 chrysoprase. OK, I'm confused. I Googled on Citrine chrysoprase and got one hit. Lemon chrysoprase? I don't= =20 know what that is. I know you good folks can't identify a stone you have=20 never seen but maybe somebody can tell me what lemon or citrine chrysoprase=20 really is. It ain't citrine and it ain't chrysoprase.=20 Grant Johnston, Chico, CA --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Apr 21 01:29:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Apr 21 00:29:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Indiana collecting In-Reply-To: <3EA38183.20200@cox.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030420143102.02948cd0@mail.aloha.net> <3EA34CB2.1693@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030420211809.02329020@mail.aloha.net> At 07:28 PM 4/20/2003, you wrote: >Kitty, >Do you wonder where the yellow went? >Teresa Yes! (I think one of my sulphur specimens is missing). And: I've got six seconds to sing: Buy Kraft cottage cheese, you'll love it love it love it. And: Aren't you glad you use Dial soap, don't you wish everybody did? And: (sing along as if marching) L A V A (the soap). Who knows what this has to do with rocks? ....The Shadow Knows! Aloha, Kitty --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release Date: 4/18/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Apr 21 01:42:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Apr 21 00:42:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Indiana collecting In-Reply-To: <3EA34CB2.1693@Tomaszewski.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030420143102.02948cd0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030420214508.0232ed40@mail.aloha.net> At 03:43 PM 4/20/2003, Kreigh wrote: >Beneath this stone > Lies Elmer Gush > Tickled to death > By his > Shaving Brush > Burma Shave Dinah doesn't Treat him right But if He'd shave Dinah-mite! Burma-Shave Kitty --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release Date: 4/18/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Apr 21 06:11:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon Apr 21 05:11:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] CITRINE CHRYSOPRASE In-Reply-To: <161.1efcede9.2bd4ea87@aol.com> Message-ID: <20030421120958.35614.qmail@web40912.mail.yahoo.com> Citrine chrysoprase is a cutting rough sold in Australia starting in the mid 70's to early 80's. It is chrysoprase with a slight yellow tint - hence, citrine chrysoprase. Some of the pieces were very yellow to just a hint of yellow,but all have a green tint. The difference in color caused the term citrine chrysoprase. It was produced from one or two pockets out of the chrysoprase mines with seems up to 2+ inches thick. I purchased a ton of it when it first was found and the color varied from true chrysoprase to the lemon color. Chris --- Lapadary@aol.com wrote: > Hello, > > Tonight I saw a lady wearing a pendent that I > couldn't identify. The light > was bad -- we were at a concert -- so my first guess > was turquoise. My wife > said gaspeite. I changed my mind and decided it was > varicite.  > > At the break I saw a jeweler I know. We hunted up > that lady so he could see > it. His first guess was variquoise, a stone that > some people say does not > even > exist. However, after lifting it to feel the weight > he said it was citrine > chrysoprase. OK, I'm confused. > > I Googled on Citrine chrysoprase and got one hit. > Lemon chrysoprase? I don't > know what that is. I know you good folks can't > identify a stone you have > never seen but maybe somebody can tell me what lemon > or citrine chrysoprase > really is. It ain't citrine and it ain't > chrysoprase. > > Grant Johnston, Chico, CA > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ===== Thanks, Chris Wright Wrights Rock Shop 3612 Albert Pike Hot Springs, Arkansas 71913 wrightsr@ipa.net __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Apr 21 10:25:59 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kris Murray) Date: Mon Apr 21 09:25:59 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] peridot in Oregon In-Reply-To: <43.1af38e6b.2bc5d349@aol.com> Message-ID: is this where that electric blue obsidian comes from??? Man i would like to get some of that!, anyone with info can email the list or privately Thankfully, KRIS! On Wednesday, April 9, 2003, at 12:49 PM, Lapadary@aol.com wrote: > The exceptional place, like Davis > Creek obsidian From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Apr 21 17:38:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Paul Green/Robin Lyn Green) Date: Mon Apr 21 16:38:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Indiana collecting References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030420143102.02948cd0@mail.aloha.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20030420214508.0232ed40@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <001701c3085c$00d9e800$9600000a@alltel.net> Here is a web site with many of the burma shave sayings. Paul http://www.nidlink.com/~dgookin/burma_shave/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 3:56 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Indiana collecting > At 03:43 PM 4/20/2003, Kreigh wrote: > > >Beneath this stone > > Lies Elmer Gush > > Tickled to death > > By his > > Shaving Brush > > Burma Shave > > Dinah doesn't > Treat him right > But if > He'd shave > Dinah-mite! > Burma-Shave > > Kitty > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release Date: 4/18/2003 > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > text/plain (text body -- kept) > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Apr 21 19:40:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Apr 21 18:40:02 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Electric blue obsidian In-Reply-To: References: <43.1af38e6b.2bc5d349@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.5.2.20030421181404.015cdec8@mail.spiritone.com> Directions on my site. Warning: it is buried beneath at least 10 feet of tailings... At 09:25 AM 4/21/2003 -0700, you wrote: is this where that electric blue obsidian comes from??? Man i would like to get some of that!, anyone with info can email the list or privately Thankfully, KRIS! On Wednesday, April 9, 2003, at 12:49 PM, Lapadary@aol.com wrote: The exceptional place, like Davis Creek obsidian Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! mailto:tim@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Apr 21 22:08:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kris Murray) Date: Mon Apr 21 21:08:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Electric blue obsidian In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.5.2.20030421181404.015cdec8@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: under 10ft of other colored obsidian but not electric blue? maybe dull blue? or is it just black or red? KM <- just got back from beaches in thailand! Thanks in advance On Monday, April 21, 2003, at 06:14 PM, Tim Fisher wrote: > Directions on my site. Warning: it is buried beneath at > least 10 feet of tailings... From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Apr 21 22:32:28 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Apr 21 21:32:28 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Electric blue obsidian In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.0.5.2.20030421181404.015cdec8@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.5.2.20030421211453.015db0e0@mail.spiritone.com> It is under tailings from diggers who didn't know where it was. At 09:07 PM 4/21/2003 -0700, you wrote: >under 10ft of other colored obsidian but not electric blue? maybe dull >blue? or is it just black or red? >KM <- just got back from beaches in thailand! >Thanks in advance >On Monday, April 21, 2003, at 06:14 PM, Tim Fisher wrote: > >>Directions on my site. Warning: it is buried beneath at >>least 10 feet of tailings... > >Tim Fisher >Ore-ROCK-On! >mailto:tim@OreRockOn.com >Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Apr 21 23:16:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kris Murray) Date: Mon Apr 21 22:16:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Electric blue obsidian In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.5.2.20030421211453.015db0e0@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <7D319618-7481-11D7-BEB7-000A27B5DC58@mac.com> under tailings of what nature and where, exactly, on your site are those directions? KM On Monday, April 21, 2003, at 09:15 PM, Tim Fisher wrote: > It is under tailings from diggers who didn't know where it was From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Apr 22 06:12:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Apr 22 05:12:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Electric blue obsidian In-Reply-To: <7D319618-7481-11D7-BEB7-000A27B5DC58@mac.com> References: <5.2.0.5.2.20030421211453.015db0e0@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.5.2.20030422045335.01491ed8@mail.spiritone.com> http://orerockon.com/Lakeview.htm Dirt... At 10:15 PM 4/21/2003 -0700, you wrote: under tailings of what nature and where, exactly, on your site are those directions? KM On Monday, April 21, 2003, at 09:15 PM, Tim Fisher wrote: It is under tailings from diggers who didn't know where it was _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site Owner, Fisher Fisheries, Ltd. mailto:tim@OreRockOn.com WWW http://OreRockOn.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Apr 22 06:33:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Apr 22 05:33:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Equipment for Sale Message-ID: <5.2.0.5.2.20030422051152.014af7a8@mail.spiritone.com> 12" SAW, 8" TRIM SAW, CABBER, AUTO HOLE DRILLER, 6" TRIM SAW Lortone 12" Slab Saw: Automatic feed; almost new high-speed professional MK continuous rim diamond blade (lists for $166 new). These blades ROCK! Set up for high speed operation. Pretty much everything that came with the original saw is still on it; the motor is newer than the saw (saw is 1970s vintage). Vise is a little wobbly (from wear). New bearings, belt, motor switch, feed switch, lid hinge, arbor, and pulleys. I will not ship the stand (it's welded together and way too bulky to ship). Lortone 8" Trim Saw Manual feed vise; set up for normal speed operation. Newer motor and switch. Runs good; never had to monkey with anything. Star Diamond Cabber: All-in-one cabbing unit with EVERYTHING included to get you started! Hardly used! 3 water supply inlets, one for each wheel, expandable drum sander, coarse and fine grit corundum grinding wheels, felt and leather polishing discs, flat sanding disc, trim saw, belt, motor, recirculating filtering water supply. Comes with an extra grinding wheel, many sanding discs, trim saw attachment & blades, leather polishing disc and extra pad, recirculating pump, Beacon Star filtering box, 1/3 HP motor, switch, and mounting brackets. "Pro Carva - Gem Drill" Vintage 1972, hardly used. I don't know much about this but I do have a copy of the one-page manual. I do know it accepts core drills that use carborundum grit as well as diamond drills. It has a cam to operate in automatic mode or it can operate without the cam. There is another pulley for slower applications but it was not with the unit when I bought it. The manual says the head can be tilted and used as a carving tool but I don't know anything about how to do that. The collet for using a carving attachment seems to be included. Includes Allen wrenches and chuck key. 6" Highland Park trim saw With 1/4 HP motor & switch; blade not included. I have it set up to run a high-speed opal trim blade; if you want to use a regular blade just double the size of the pulley on the motor. CLICK THE SITE LINK BELOW FOR PRICING AND PICS! http://orerockon.com/equipment_for_sale.html From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Apr 22 15:08:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (frank de wit) Date: Tue Apr 22 14:08:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Anna-I dump, Alsdorf, Aachen on www.strahlen.org Message-ID: <025c01c30913$1a205120$907ba8c0@cm333814LT> Hi Rockhounders, last week and this weekend I visited the burning coaldumps of the = Anna-I-mine near Alsdorf/Aachen/Germany a few times, and found Alunogen, = Tschermigit, Boussingaultit, Millosevichit-Godovikovit, Kremersit, = Rostit, Voltait, Letovicit etc etc See pics and info on http://www.strahlen.org/ If anyone wants to pick up some material at my house for free, or swap = (the material will break in the mail...), just mailme... Cheers! Frank --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Apr 22 16:47:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Don H) Date: Tue Apr 22 15:47:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] x-ray madness: help on basics of XRD vs. XRF Message-ID: <3EA5C7B9.D93EA6CD@att.net> Astute members, I am trying to grasp x-ray crystallography. To be specific, I am looking for a book that explains it from the beginning in simple terms and grows more complex slowly. There are plenty of resources to help me grasp the individual pieces, but none to put it all together neatly in a hierarchy. For example: elements are the fundamental building blocks of molecules, and molecules in crystalline form are the building blocks of minerals. From there we have Bravais lattices, and unit cells, and primitive unit cells, and reduced unit cells--some of which may mean the same thing. Then we find space groups, point groups, the crystal systems, and along the way Miller indices and Hermann-Maugin symbols come into effect. I think I understand most of these concepts by definition; but if you gave me a set of parameters covering all these aspects, I couldn't build a lattice model from them or draw the facial morphology, and I think one should be able to do that given enough facts. I am also trying to determine what types of x-ray investigation there are. I've heard of XRD, XRF, and precession cameras, and single-crystal diffraction, but I'm not sure which one to use to determine what facts. Last weekend I saw a video that explained how a diffraction pattern, which is usually expressed like this: @ ) )) ) ))) ) )) is actually a radial section of a circular pattern of concentric rings. Okay, that finally makes sense. But how do you know which angle you've got? If I build a complex lattice pattern out of Tinkertoys, it will look quite different in perspective depending upon the direction from which I view it. Argh. Very well, those are the things I need to understand. Might someone recommend a text that addresses these concepts from the ground up, in order? Thanks, Don From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 23 06:20:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Van) Date: Wed Apr 23 05:20:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] x-ray madness: help on basics of XRD vs. XRF References: <3EA5C7B9.D93EA6CD@att.net> Message-ID: <001101c30992$9d03c110$c3ff4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> Dear Don, There's about 26 hours of college credit in your questions. I'll tackle one in a college second of credit. The powder pattern was very cleverly shown! The part you need to know is that the sample to be x-rayed is put in the path of the x-ray beam. The beam is essentially a point source. When the point source interacts with a crystal, you get a point source of diffracted x-rays out and a single point would appear on the film of an x-ray powder camera. Actually, you might end up with several points on the film if there were several possible x-ray diffraction points intersected by the area of the film. In order to have arcs on the film, instead of points, there is a spindle in the x-ray powder camera and a motor rotates the sample. As the sample rotates, points that may have not touched the film before will rotate onto the curved film and expose the emulsion, while a previous diffraction point will rotate away from the film momentarily. (The x-ray is sometimes incorrectly said to be reflected, but it is actually diffracted through the original beam's interaction with the sample, hence you frequently read of the set of x-ray "reflections".) You don't get a lot of diffraction from a single grain so the sample holder, usually a glass tube or glass fiber, is stuffed with powdered sample or coated with an adhesive and a powder of sample. The powder has literally thousands of particles which intersect the beam and the thousands of particles each contribute diffracted spots which expose the film's emulsion. As the thousands of particles are supposed to be in random positions relative to the beam, you should get a true representation of how frequently a given grain will diffract x-rays. The rotation will produce arcs on the film which can be measured from a central zero point. The intensity of the arcs is related to how many grains are diffracting, to how efficient the particular plane of atoms is in interacting with the beam, etc. One of the problems of the method is that the hole in the film of the x-ray camera takes away area where diffraction might be recorded. Depending on the camera, diffraction lines above 15 A might be missing. The large spacings might be essential to identifying the mineral, etc. Many a mistake has been made this way. There are lots of clever things about the designs of x-ray cameras. The radius was chosen specifically so that some of the calculations would be simplified. There are cameras which place the hole of entry so that you can record large diffraction lines, etc. The Gandolfi camera was designed so that not only does the sample rotate, it precesses through the beam. With this camera, you can get more possible orientations with a minimal of sample, sometimes just a single grain. The powder camera is only one method of getting an x-ray diffraction pattern of a crystalline material. The powder camera is a moving sample method. You can also move the film and leave the sample stationary. You can also move both the sample and the film. These last two methods are good for single crystal studies. The x-ray diffractometer moves the "film". In this case, the film is replaced with an x-ray detector, such as a Geiger counter, and the detector moves through an arc above the sample. Again, the more sample you have, the better. You could put a single grain on the sample holder, but you might record no diffraction as the path of the detector might not intersect any diffraction points. The powdered sample in the holder does the same as the camera. The powder should have a random sample of all orientations and give a true representation of the possible diffraction events. If you don't have enough sample or if the powder is relatively coarse, there's not much to measure and the pattern may be difficult to impossible to work with. If you have a mineral with a perfect cleavage, such as calcite, you might not get a randomly orientated sample and the intensities might be enhanced for some diffractions and diminished for others. Clay mineralogists have used preferred orientation of clay samples to help identify poorly crystalline minerals, by enhancing what diffraction could come from the sample. Hope this gives you some useful basis. I recommend Crystallography and Crystal Chemistry by (fanfare) F. Donald Bloss. Great book! Remember that crystal lattice and crystal structure are not interchangeable terms, but are closely related. The Bravais crystal lattice is a classification of 14 possible ways to categorize crystal structures: primitive, centered, etc. The crystal structure is the actual placement in space of the atoms. Van ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don H" To: "rockhounds" ; ; "R&F" Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 6:52 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] x-ray madness: help on basics of XRD vs. XRF > > Astute members, > > I am trying to grasp x-ray crystallography. To be specific, I am > looking for a book that explains it from the beginning in simple terms > and grows more complex slowly. There are plenty of resources to help me > grasp the individual pieces, but none to put it all together neatly in a > hierarchy. For example: elements are the fundamental building blocks of > molecules, and molecules in crystalline form are the building blocks of > minerals. From there we have Bravais lattices, and unit cells, and > primitive unit cells, and reduced unit cells--some of which may mean the > same thing. Then we find space groups, point groups, the crystal > systems, and along the way Miller indices and Hermann-Maugin symbols > come into effect. I think I understand most of these concepts by > definition; but if you gave me a set of parameters covering all these > aspects, I couldn't build a lattice model from them or draw the facial > morphology, and I think one should be able to do that given enough > facts. > > I am also trying to determine what types of x-ray investigation there > are. I've heard of XRD, XRF, and precession cameras, and single-crystal > diffraction, but I'm not sure which one to use to determine what facts. > Last weekend I saw a video that explained how a diffraction pattern, > which is usually expressed like this: > > @ ) )) ) ))) ) )) > > is actually a radial section of a circular pattern of concentric rings. > Okay, that finally makes sense. But how do you know which angle you've > got? If I build a complex lattice pattern out of Tinkertoys, it will > look quite different in perspective depending upon the direction from > which I view it. Argh. > > Very well, those are the things I need to understand. Might someone > recommend a text that addresses these concepts from the ground up, in > order? > > Thanks, > > Don > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 23 11:23:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (John Teague) Date: Wed Apr 23 10:23:02 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Memphis, TN show this weekend Message-ID: <7318993.1051118561013.JavaMail.nobody@wamui01.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Greetings! I would like to remind members of the list about the 24th annual Mid-America Mineral, Fossil, Jewelry show, Memphis, Tennessee, this weekend. My booth is hard to miss as I have UT orange table coverings! I will have several new items from the Tucson shows including some of the cactus amethyst (Melody's "Spirit Quartz") from Africa and some interesting quartz/pyrite/calcite specimens from Peru. Also, I have some very nice Azurite Rosettes from the Big Indian Mine, La Salle, Utah. Stop by and give them a look! Dates: Saturday and Sunday, April 26 and 27, 2003 Hours: Saturday - 9:00 am - 5:00 pm Sunday - 10:00 noon - 5:00 pm Location: Pipkin Building, Midsouth Fairgrounds, Memphis, TN More information and directions can be found at: http://www.memphisgeology.org/the_show.html Hope to see you there! Stop by and say "HI!" and introduce yourself. Maybe you'll even see something I have that you can't live without. And then I'll have more to spend on my addiction with other dealers! John Teague Volunteer Gems Knoxville, Tennessee http://www.VolunteerGems.com From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 23 13:22:03 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Van) Date: Wed Apr 23 12:22:03 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Kaiser's mineral collection Message-ID: <000e01c309cd$85a27cb0$c3ff4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> Anyone on the list from Germany? Am trying to discover if Kaiser Wilhelm = had a mineral collection. (I'm sure he did.) However, was it ever on = public display? Does it still exist? Supposedly, it was in Potsdam. Van --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 23 20:35:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Don H) Date: Wed Apr 23 19:35:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] x-ray madness: help on basics of XRD vs. XRF References: <3EA5C7B9.D93EA6CD@att.net> <001101c30992$9d03c110$c3ff4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> Message-ID: <3EA74E9B.3F5DA972@att.net> Van, you are once again the man. Thanks for your extended explanation. This makes the physical, practical part of the exercise much clearer. I suppose I would learn it exponentially faster if I actually watched someone perform these tests as I was learning the math and theory behind them. > The powder pattern was very cleverly shown! Thanks. I am actually quite proud of that; once I figured out how to re-create it in ASCII characters I couldn't wait to use it. It's like getting a gold star in class. If I can get excited about that, though, it is actually a sad testimony to how far I have yet to go. > Hope this gives you some useful basis. I recommend Crystallography and > Crystal Chemistry by (fanfare) > F. Donald Bloss. Great book! Next on my list, as a matter of fact, along with the spindle stage book. I know he wrote four of them, and I'd like to read two or three of them before the class in July. Thanks again for your valuable time. I hope I'll be able to repay you some day by doing an analysis for you (if we both live that long). Don " . . . but then again, all crystallographers are nuts." -- Josef Vajdak From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 23 23:55:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Diederik Visser) Date: Wed Apr 23 22:55:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mistery Mineral References: <3EA5C7B9.D93EA6CD@att.net> <001101c30992$9d03c110$c3ff4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> <3EA74E9B.3F5DA972@att.net> Message-ID: <000d01c30a25$6d2c66c0$9c193591@oemcomputer> Last year I acquired several radioactive minerals from the US. One mineral which forms yellow-green crusts on matrix is from the Strawberry Roan Mine, San Miguel Co., Uravan Mineral Belt, Colorado and has been labelled Pentadoite. Pentadoite is probably an old varietal name since the minerals were collected in 1959-1960. Any information on pentadoite or locality info on the Strawberry Roan Mine would be very welcome. Cheers, Diederik Visser email: dvisser@wxs.nl or diederik.visser@dvminerals.com http://www.dvminerals.com From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Apr 24 06:16:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Van) Date: Thu Apr 24 05:16:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mistery Mineral References: <3EA5C7B9.D93EA6CD@att.net> <001101c30992$9d03c110$c3ff4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> <3EA74E9B.3F5DA972@att.net> <000d01c30a25$6d2c66c0$9c193591@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <000701c30a5b$1677d680$c3ff4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> I list the following USA occurrances for pintadoite. Is your specimen correctly identified? Pintadoite (Hess and Schaller, 1914) - {Mesa #5 mine}, {Mesa #6 mine}, [Lukachukai Mountains], Apache Co., AZ; {Coffins prospect (post-mine)}, [McElmo Creek], Montezuma Co., [Bull Canyon, 24 km W of Naturita], [[Bull Canyon District]], {Jo Dandy mine}, [Paradox Valley District], [[Uravan Belt]], Montrose Co., [[Slick Rock District]], [[[Uravan Belt]]], San Miguel Co., CO; {The Fish}, [Fish Creek Mountains, 48 km S of Eureka], [[Fish Creek District]], Eureka Co., NV; [Temple Rock], Emery Co., {Whitney prospect}, [Canyon Pintado], San Juan Co., UT Van ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diederik Visser" To: Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 1:50 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Mistery Mineral > Last year I acquired several radioactive minerals from the US. One mineral > which forms yellow-green crusts on matrix is from the Strawberry Roan Mine, > San Miguel Co., Uravan Mineral Belt, Colorado and has been labelled > Pentadoite. Pentadoite is probably an old varietal name since the minerals > were collected in 1959-1960. > Any information on pentadoite or locality info on the Strawberry Roan Mine > would be very welcome. > > Cheers, > > Diederik Visser > email: dvisser@wxs.nl or diederik.visser@dvminerals.com > http://www.dvminerals.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Apr 24 07:02:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Van) Date: Thu Apr 24 06:02:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] x-ray madness: help on basics of XRD vs. XRF References: <3EA5C7B9.D93EA6CD@att.net> <001101c30992$9d03c110$c3ff4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> <3EA74E9B.3F5DA972@att.net> Message-ID: <001e01c30a61$a28449f0$c3ff4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> Try looking for used mineral books at www.bookfinder.com Van ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don H" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 10:40 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] x-ray madness: help on basics of XRD vs. XRF > > Van, you are once again the man. Thanks for your extended explanation. > This makes the physical, practical part of the exercise much clearer. I > suppose I would learn it exponentially faster if I actually watched > someone perform these tests as I was learning the math and theory behind > them. > > > The powder pattern was very cleverly shown! > > Thanks. I am actually quite proud of that; once I figured out how to > re-create it in ASCII characters I couldn't wait to use it. It's like > getting a gold star in class. If I can get excited about that, though, > it is actually a sad testimony to how far I have yet to go. > > > Hope this gives you some useful basis. I recommend Crystallography and > > Crystal Chemistry by (fanfare) > > F. Donald Bloss. Great book! > > Next on my list, as a matter of fact, along with the spindle stage > book. I know he wrote four of them, and I'd like to read two or three > of them before the class in July. > > Thanks again for your valuable time. I hope I'll be able to repay you > some day by doing an analysis for you (if we both live that long). > > Don > > > " . . . but then again, all crystallographers are nuts." -- Josef > Vajdak > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Apr 24 07:20:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Diederik Visser) Date: Thu Apr 24 06:20:02 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mistery Mineral References: <3EA5C7B9.D93EA6CD@att.net> <001101c30992$9d03c110$c3ff4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> <3EA74E9B.3F5DA972@att.net> <000d01c30a25$6d2c66c0$9c193591@oemcomputer> <000701c30a5b$1677d680$c3ff4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> Message-ID: <000d01c30a63$8f9ee0a0$9c193591@oemcomputer> Dear Van, Ah, pintadoite..... and not pentadoite somehow I missed that one completely. Indeed the yellow-green crusts do fit pintadoite very well. As for possible misidentification, I think it is only a typo-error in the mineral-name, it was collected during a trip along several US Uraniumsites and the lot does contain a small number of Vanadium-minerals. As for the Strawberry Roan Mine I found two references, one listed it as an Uranium site and the other listing an accident resulting in the death of a miner in 1960. Diederik Visser ----- Original Message ----- From: "Van" To: Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mistery Mineral > I list the following USA occurrances for pintadoite. Is your specimen > correctly identified? > > Pintadoite (Hess and Schaller, 1914) - {Mesa #5 mine}, {Mesa #6 mine}, > [Lukachukai Mountains], Apache Co., AZ; {Coffins prospect (post-mine)}, > [McElmo Creek], Montezuma Co., [Bull Canyon, 24 km W of Naturita], [[Bull > Canyon District]], {Jo Dandy mine}, [Paradox Valley District], [[Uravan > Belt]], Montrose Co., [[Slick Rock District]], [[[Uravan Belt]]], San Miguel > Co., CO; {The Fish}, [Fish Creek Mountains, 48 km S of Eureka], [[Fish Creek > District]], Eureka Co., NV; [Temple Rock], Emery Co., {Whitney prospect}, > [Canyon Pintado], San Juan Co., UT > > > > Van > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Diederik Visser" > To: > Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 1:50 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Mistery Mineral > > > > Last year I acquired several radioactive minerals from the US. One mineral > > which forms yellow-green crusts on matrix is from the Strawberry Roan > Mine, > > San Miguel Co., Uravan Mineral Belt, Colorado and has been labelled > > Pentadoite. Pentadoite is probably an old varietal name since the minerals > > were collected in 1959-1960. > > Any information on pentadoite or locality info on the Strawberry Roan Mine > > would be very welcome. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Diederik Visser > > email: dvisser@wxs.nl or diederik.visser@dvminerals.com > > http://www.dvminerals.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Apr 24 07:25:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Thu Apr 24 06:25:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mistery Mineral Message-ID: <16a.1dab3cb9.2bd93f60@aol.com> In a message dated 4/24/2003 8:18:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, newryqs@rochester.rr.com writes: > I list the following USA occurrences for pintadoite. Is your specimen > correctly identified? > > Pintadoite (Hess and Schaller, 1914) - {Mesa #5 mine}, {Mesa #6 mine}, > [Lukachukai Mountains], Apache Co., AZ; {Coffins prospect (post-mine)}, > [McElmo Creek], Montezuma Co., [Bull Canyon, 24 km W of Naturita], [[Bull > Canyon District]], {Jo Dandy mine}, [Paradox Valley District], [[Uravan > Belt]], Montrose Co., [[Slick Rock District]], [[[Uravan Belt]]], San > Miguel > Co., CO; {The Fish}, [Fish Creek Mountains, 48 km S of Eureka], [[Fish > Creek > District]], Eureka Co., NV; [Temple Rock], Emery Co., {Whitney prospect}, > [Canyon Pintado], San Juan Co., UT Additionally, the location at Sunday Mine, Big Gypsum Valley, San Miguel County, Colorado is mentioned in Mineral News 9/87. John Betts http://www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Apr 24 08:00:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Thu Apr 24 07:00:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] x-ray madness: help on basics of XRD References: <3EA5C7B9.D93EA6CD@att.net> <001101c30992$9d03c110$c3ff4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> <3EA74E9B.3F5DA972@att.net> Message-ID: <003501c30a69$fd7d5880$2201560c@oemcomputer> Don, To add a suggestion, I have always thought that the pages on X-ray diffraction in whatever is the current edition (or any edition, for that matter) of Dana's Manual of Mineralogy (various authors of different editions; Hurlbut, etc.) gives a good, basic and clear summary of XRD and its different methods. You should check that out as a start, if you haven't already. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: Don H To: Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 8:40 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] x-ray madness: help on basics of XRD vs. XRF From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Apr 24 08:59:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Van) Date: Thu Apr 24 07:59:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mistery Mineral References: <3EA5C7B9.D93EA6CD@att.net> <001101c30992$9d03c110$c3ff4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> <3EA74E9B.3F5DA972@att.net> <000d01c30a25$6d2c66c0$9c193591@oemcomputer> <000701c30a5b$1677d680$c3ff4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> <000d01c30a63$8f9ee0a0$9c193591@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <002001c30a71$ea5e59e0$c3ff4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> Sorry I don't have any data for Strawberry Roan mine yet in my database. I did find 6 other mineral localities with Strawberry in the name, though. Please let me know what you find out. Van ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diederik Visser" To: Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 9:15 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mistery Mineral > Dear Van, > > Ah, pintadoite..... and not pentadoite somehow I missed that one completely. > Indeed the yellow-green crusts do fit pintadoite very well. As for possible > misidentification, I think it is only a typo-error in the mineral-name, it > was collected during a trip along several US Uraniumsites and the lot does > contain a small number of Vanadium-minerals. As for the Strawberry Roan Mine > I found two references, one listed it as an Uranium site and the other > listing an accident resulting in the death of a miner in 1960. > > Diederik Visser > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Van" > To: > Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 2:14 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mistery Mineral > > > > I list the following USA occurrances for pintadoite. Is your specimen > > correctly identified? > > > > Pintadoite (Hess and Schaller, 1914) - {Mesa #5 mine}, {Mesa #6 mine}, > > [Lukachukai Mountains], Apache Co., AZ; {Coffins prospect (post-mine)}, > > [McElmo Creek], Montezuma Co., [Bull Canyon, 24 km W of Naturita], [[Bull > > Canyon District]], {Jo Dandy mine}, [Paradox Valley District], [[Uravan > > Belt]], Montrose Co., [[Slick Rock District]], [[[Uravan Belt]]], San > Miguel > > Co., CO; {The Fish}, [Fish Creek Mountains, 48 km S of Eureka], [[Fish > Creek > > District]], Eureka Co., NV; [Temple Rock], Emery Co., {Whitney prospect}, > > [Canyon Pintado], San Juan Co., UT > > > > > > > > Van > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Diederik Visser" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 1:50 AM > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Mistery Mineral > > > > > > > Last year I acquired several radioactive minerals from the US. One > mineral > > > which forms yellow-green crusts on matrix is from the Strawberry Roan > > Mine, > > > San Miguel Co., Uravan Mineral Belt, Colorado and has been labelled > > > Pentadoite. Pentadoite is probably an old varietal name since the > minerals > > > were collected in 1959-1960. > > > Any information on pentadoite or locality info on the Strawberry Roan > Mine > > > would be very welcome. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Diederik Visser > > > email: dvisser@wxs.nl or diederik.visser@dvminerals.com > > > http://www.dvminerals.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Apr 24 15:38:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Don H) Date: Thu Apr 24 14:38:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] x-ray madness: help on basics of XRD References: <3EA5C7B9.D93EA6CD@att.net> <001101c30992$9d03c110$c3ff4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> <3EA74E9B.3F5DA972@att.net> <003501c30a69$fd7d5880$2201560c@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3EA85A9F.895FF4BA@att.net> In fact, I just got Hurlbut & Kline's edition. It looks neat! A lot of that info should help. It all makes a little more sense each time I read about it--I just wish I could have that final flash of intuition that allows me to understand it completely and work with it. Don "Peter J. Modreski" wrote: > > Don, > > To add a suggestion, I have always thought that the pages on X-ray > diffraction in whatever is the current edition (or any edition, for that > matter) of Dana's Manual of Mineralogy (various authors of different > editions; Hurlbut, etc.) gives a good, basic and clear summary of XRD and > its different methods. You should check that out as a start, if you haven't > already. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Apr 27 08:45:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Rik Dillen) Date: Sun Apr 27 07:45:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] MINERANT on the move... Message-ID: <00ab01c30ccb$7f9a7830$4fc4c950@maxdata> MINERANT, one of Europe's oldest and most famous mineral shows has moved = from a beautiful location downtown to an even more beautiful location at the Schelde river. The minerals and fossils remain = at the same level - so don't miss it !! Access to the new location is very easy, on foot, by public transport or = by car. =20 MINERANT2003 : 10-11 mei 2003, 10-18 u=20 28th international mineral- and fossil show NEW LOCATION :=20 STUURBOORD, Hangar 26-27, Rijnkaai 96, Antwerpen=20 North of downtown Antwerp, near to the Bonapartedok=20 MAP : = http://www.stuurboord.com/gif/map.gif=20 Information and directions :=20 = http://www.minerant.org/MKA/minerantnl.html=20 For more information contact secretariaat@minerant.org or tel/fax 03 = 4408987=20 Moving to a new location means starting it all over again. Please help = us actively, especially this time, by forwarding this message to all your friends, collectors you know, organisations, schools... with = the request to help to spread the word... Thank you for your cooperation ! =20 Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15 B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium =20 Tel. + 32 3 7706007 E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be =20 Homepage : = http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list =20 Mineral collector's page = http://www.minerant.org/ >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! =20 MINERANT 2003 - Minerals and fossils show ATTENTION ! NEW LOCATION ! "Stuurboord - hangar 26-27", Rijnkaai 96, B-2000 Antwerpen 10 ' north of "Het Steen", Schelde - see = = http://www.stuurboord.com/gif/map.gif Large parking lot ! = http://www.minerant.org/MKA/minerantnl.html =20 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Apr 27 11:30:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Jokela) Date: Sun Apr 27 10:30:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Halls Gap closed to collecting? References: <00ab01c30ccb$7f9a7830$4fc4c950@maxdata> Message-ID: <002701c30ce3$3a07b900$6e06efd1@oemcomputer> I recall reading in Mineral News or somewhere that the under cut @ Hall's Gap was too deep to be safely collected in, can anybody provide confirmation that this is now a closed locality? Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr, tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The mineralogy of Ontario, Canada: http://www.ontariominerals.com From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Apr 27 12:05:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Apr 27 11:05:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Halls Gap closed to collecting? References: <00ab01c30ccb$7f9a7830$4fc4c950@maxdata> <002701c30ce3$3a07b900$6e06efd1@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3EAC1B86.B84@Tomaszewski.net> Tim Jokela wrote: > > I recall reading in Mineral News or somewhere that the under cut @ Hall's > Gap was too deep to be safely collected in, can anybody provide confirmation > that this is now a closed locality? In a recent posting on another list I read the highway department has erected No Rock Collecting signs around Hall's Gap and the Police are issueing tickets. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Apr 28 11:22:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Italian Minerals) Date: Mon Apr 28 10:22:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD - web site UPDATE Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20030428192118.007c6c60@popmail.libero.it> Large update on ItalianMinerals.com ! in addition to HEMATITE from Isola Elba, there are SPHALERITE, ZINKENITE, BOTRYOGEN, HEMIMORPHYTE from Italy, ELBAITE from Pakistan. Goto: http://www.italianminerals.com/whatsnew-7.html Several specimens of FLUORITE from Canada can be seen on: http://www.italianminerals.com/whatsnew-7.html Very nice green FLUORITE from China are now on show at: http://www.italianminerals.com/ASIA/china-fluorite.html Some specimens of deep red GARNET from China are now on: http://www.italianminerals.com/ASIA/china-garnet.html A lot of other "stones" can be seen on the many pages of our web site. Some pages might take 3-4 minutes to be uploaded since photos are now with a higher degree of resolution to let you see better the details of our specimens ! Regards, Alessandro - ItalianMinerals.com . ===================== Visit us at: http://www.ItalianMinerals.com for quality minerals !! Check our auctions on Ebay at: http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=itali anminerals ===================== From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Apr 28 18:10:34 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Erwin WTP) Date: Mon Apr 28 17:10:34 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineralogy 211 In-Reply-To: <3E948DB8.981F9F12@att.net> References: <3E93B860.F1EAC550@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030428200640.00af0c20@mail.charter.net> I just ran across this website. A complete mineralogy course with extensive lecture notes. Good stuff here! http://www.tulane.edu/~sanelson/geol211/ Tommy ARmstrong From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Apr 28 20:47:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Don H) Date: Mon Apr 28 19:47:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: opportunity: encore spindle stage class with Dr. F.D. Bloss References: <3E3D44D0.9FFE8DC5@att.net> Message-ID: <3EADE91F.2919375@att.net> > Hi all, > > I was going to wait until things were more definite; but in light of my > need to move on from yesterday, and to bring something new and positive > to the forefront, I offer the following preliminary announcement. > Old-timers will recognize the significance of this; newcomers will come > to realize this is a little piece of history in which they can take > part. > > "In reaching for the stars, we might just touch the sky." Hi all, I had made the preliminary announcement in January, and the opportunity has finally been created. For those who want to add a little intermediate optics to their collecting skills, this is an event that will likely not happen again (Dr. Bloss, though spry, is in his 80's and is quite retired). There are 8 people committed so far and I believe the limit is 24 students. If you know anyone who has basic skills with polarized light microscopy, please pass the word along. I think we will have a dynamic class of students and a quartet of instructors of this calibre will not be assembled for quite some time. Thanks, Don "Special Short Course: Friday to Sunday, July 11 to 13, 2003 Optical Crystallography and The Spindle Stage F.D. Bloss, M.E. Gunter, S.C. Su, and R.M. Weaver Spindle stage measurements and the newest version of the computer program EXCALIBR will be used to rapidly orient microscopic (as small as 20 mm) anisotropic crystals to allow their principal refractive indices to be precisely measured without appreciable error from crystal misorientation. The collected data is used by EXCALIBR to calculate the optic axial angle (2V) for biaxial minerals most accurately. In addition, if crystal extinctions are measured using monochromatic light at several different wavelengths, a value for 2V and the positions of the five significant (biaxial) optic vectors (i.e. the two optic axes and the three principal vibration axes, X, Y, Z) will be precisely located for each wavelength. EXCALIBR then calculates the angular changes in these vectors with wavelength (i.e. dispersion) and analyzes these changes statistically to determine their significance. The spindle stage technique also determines whether the crystal is orthorhombic, monoclinic, or triclinic. Values of 2V at several different wavelengths for a biaxial crystal are highly individual. In essence, 2V constitutes a highly sensitive response to small changes in composition (and in order-disorder) in crystals. Spindle stage measurements may permit biaxial pharmaceutical crystals to be sensitively monitored for subtle changes in composition. In forensic soil analysis, the correspondence in 2V (at several wavelengths) between soil minerals is exceptionally good evidence supporting a common origin. For more information or to reserve your seat, contact McCrone Research Institute 2820 South Michigan Avenue Chicago IL 60616-3292 312-842-7100, -1078 (fax) email: info@mcri.org Tuition: $600. Enrollment is limited. Certificates will be issued." From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Apr 29 16:09:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Nathan C. Martin II) Date: Tue Apr 29 15:09:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD - web site UPDATE In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20030428192118.007c6c60@popmail.libero.it> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030429162822.01db3a20@po2.bbn.com> Alessandro, I would like to purchase the Canadian fluorite specimen CAN-A24. Please advise total cost including shipping. I will use PayPal for payment. Nate Martin Lexington, MA At 01:21 PM 4/28/2003, you wrote: > Large update on ItalianMinerals.com ! in addition to HEMATITE > from Isola >Elba, there are SPHALERITE, ZINKENITE, BOTRYOGEN, HEMIMORPHYTE from Italy, >ELBAITE from Pakistan. >Goto: http://www.italianminerals.com/whatsnew-7.html >Several specimens of FLUORITE from Canada can be seen on: >http://www.italianminerals.com/whatsnew-7.html >Very nice green FLUORITE from China are now on show at: >http://www.italianminerals.com/ASIA/china-fluorite.html >Some specimens of deep red GARNET from China are now on: >http://www.italianminerals.com/ASIA/china-garnet.html > > A lot of other "stones" can be seen on the many pages of our web > site. >Some pages might take 3-4 minutes to be uploaded since photos are now with >a higher degree of resolution to let you see better the details of our >specimens ! > Regards, > Alessandro - ItalianMinerals.com > >. > >===================== > Visit us at: >http://www.ItalianMinerals.com > for quality minerals !! >Check our auctions on Ebay at: >http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=itali >anminerals >===================== >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Dr. Nathan C. Martin Principal Scientist BBN Technologies, A Verizon Company 10 Fawcett Street, Cambridge, MA 02138 Phone: (617)873-3495 Office FAX: (617)873-2918 From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Apr 29 18:13:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Paul Gilmore) Date: Tue Apr 29 17:13:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Autunite storage Message-ID: Folks: I'd like to store and display autunite thumbnails in perky boxes and the like, but there must be a way to keep the contents relatively moist to prevent specimen death by dehydration. Keeping a moist sponge inside the box has only fogged the box, or led to a nice crop of mold. It's getting so I hardly bother to bring autuinite home. Any suggestions for maintaining this beautiful mineral? Paul Gilmore _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Apr 29 20:24:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Don H) Date: Tue Apr 29 19:24:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Autunite storage References: Message-ID: <3EAF3542.DE77206E@att.net> I have had great success keeping chalcophyllite stable in a passive hydration chamber for several years. It does fog depending upon the temperature, but again, you can't have it both ways unless you are willing to spend a lot of money on an active environment. I have also heard that autunite will degrade regardless of the hydration of the environment, that there is *nothing* I can do to preserve it permanently. Does anyone know if this is true and have a reference? Don Paul Gilmore wrote: > > Folks: > > I'd like to store and display autunite thumbnails in perky boxes and the > like, but there must be a way to keep the contents relatively moist to > prevent specimen death by dehydration. Keeping a moist sponge inside the box > has only fogged the box, or led to a nice crop of mold. It's getting so I > hardly bother to bring autuinite home. Any suggestions for maintaining this > beautiful mineral? > > Paul Gilmore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Apr 29 20:45:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (TA Masters) Date: Tue Apr 29 19:45:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: [LA-Rocks] Fossicking vs Flaunting Mining Laws References: <20030429215700.2140.qmail@web10907.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3EAF3898.4030907@cox.net> Gerry, I hear your pain. Australia does not own the rights to this wholesale chicanery. It is greed that fuels this offense. We constantly read of areas closed off to rockhounding/fossicking because of low life's with no social conscience. I know of some of the local miscreants here, they do not deserve to be anonymous, neither should the ones in Oz deserve to be protected in that way. I do know there are enough honest dealers around that would be horrified to know they are selling stolen or ill gotten goods. I believe you will get requests to identify them, let your conscience be your guide. Teresa From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 30 03:40:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Apr 30 02:40:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Autunite storage References: Message-ID: <000b01c30efc$610b8c00$d8aa77d5@pandora.be> Hi Paul, don't know if this will work for you but divers sometimes put a fine layer of vaseline (petroleum jelly) on the inside of their diving masks. This prevents condensation (a good spit will do to ;-))). You'd have to experiment a little because too much vaseline will form a cloudy layer on the plastic. If that happens, wiping the exess vaseline off with a dry cloth will help. The corners may be a little harder to reach... perhaps with a cotton stick on a drill (haven't tried that one yet ;-))) The mold just loves condensation but hates the petroleum in the vaseline. The idea of a moist sponge is good but using real sponge or cotton balls (organic materials) may actually be a dinner invitation for all kinds of fungi and molds. I would therefore either: 1) use syntetic sponge 2) boil the water in a pressure cooker to sterilise it (if you still want to use cotton, let it boil along with the water. Synthetic sponge will probably melt.) 3) Get some of the colorless (or slightly pink) desinfectant that is used for desinfecting surgical equipment, your drugstore or pharmacist should have that, and add a few drops on the sponge just before putting it in the perky box. I would'n use bleaching powder to sterilise the water. It may react with some minerals. Cheers Axel Emmermann Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen MINERANT 2003 - Mineralen en fossielen beurs Dit jaar NIEUWE LOCATIE! "Stuurboord - hangar 26-27", Rijnkaai 96, Antwerpen. Grote parking ! Waar: Scheldekaaien naast de ATV-studio's ter hoogte vd Londonstraat. Route: http://www.stuurboord.com/gif/map.gif http://www.minerant.org/MKA/minerantnl.html Werkgroepen Fluorescentie & Technische Realisaties Home : Lobbesplein 12 B-2640 Mortsel Belgium Tel: +32 (0)3 295.35.54 E-mail: axel.emmermann@pandora.be Visit our homepage: http://www.minerant.org/index.html Bezoek onze web-site: http://www.minerant.org/MKA/index.html My own web-site: http://users.pandora.be/axel.emmerman/home/index.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Gilmore" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 2:09 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Autunite storage > Folks: > > I'd like to store and display autunite thumbnails in perky boxes and the > like, but there must be a way to keep the contents relatively moist to > prevent specimen death by dehydration. Keeping a moist sponge inside the box > has only fogged the box, or led to a nice crop of mold. It's getting so I > hardly bother to bring autuinite home. Any suggestions for maintaining this > beautiful mineral? > > Paul Gilmore > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 30 03:50:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Apr 30 02:50:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Autunite storage References: <3EAF3542.DE77206E@att.net> Message-ID: <001701c30efd$d3bd0200$d8aa77d5@pandora.be> > I have also heard that autunite will degrade regardless of the hydration > of the environment, that there is *nothing* I can do to preserve it > permanently. Does anyone know if this is true and have a reference? I don't know but I THINK that constant hydrating/dehydrating can be avoided by keeping the specimen in either of the extremes qua humidity. It can't loose water in an atmosphere that is 100% humid (some exchanges at the surface of crystals perhaps???). Cheers Axel From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 30 05:48:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Don H) Date: Wed Apr 30 04:48:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Autunite storage References: <3EAF3542.DE77206E@att.net> <001701c30efd$d3bd0200$d8aa77d5@pandora.be> Message-ID: <3EAFB95D.7E9DDBD1@att.net> I checked one of the more venerable and responsible sites: http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/phosphat/meta-aut/meta-aut.htm I didn't know the change was reversible! I had been told it was permanent, as with so many minerals. I have seen crumbly, dusty, dried up specimens of (meta)autunite in collections and for sale, and was told that is the fateful end of all such specimens. I have a nice (meta)autunite from Spokane, Washington, that is small but in beautiful condition. Will my passive hydration chamber keep this from happening? I had heard someone make the off-hand remark that the radiation in (meta)autunite is partly responsible for the dehydration, but I don't know if that is true and do not yet have the means to calculate that for myself. Don Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > I have also heard that autunite will degrade regardless of the hydration > > of the environment, that there is *nothing* I can do to preserve it > > permanently. Does anyone know if this is true and have a reference? > > I don't know but I THINK that constant hydrating/dehydrating can be avoided > by keeping the specimen in either of the extremes qua humidity. It can't > loose water in an atmosphere that is 100% humid (some exchanges at the > surface of crystals perhaps???). From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 30 08:01:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Jim and Carolyn Ebsary) Date: Wed Apr 30 07:01:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Montrose Road Rock dump, Niagara Falls Ontario Message-ID: <005801c30d11$a5f04d20$b17505d1@jimcarolyn> Hello all In a recent move by Niagara Falls city council, the Montrose Rd rock dump has been declared surplus land, and as such, will be cleared and put up for sale. The neighborhood is up in arms, and feel that the property should be made into a park. Both sides have a negative impact to us rockhounds. The property will be landscaped if sold to developers. If kept as parkland, we won't be permitted to collect any more. City council will be debating the issue tomorrow night. Either way, if you haven't got anything from this site, now would be a good time to get in there. Regards The Niagara Peninsula Geological Society Jim Ebsary, Director jime@iaw.on.ca http://www.iaw.on.ca/~jime From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 30 08:05:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Michael Schmidt) Date: Wed Apr 30 07:05:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Montrose Road Rock dump, Niagara Falls Ontario References: <005801c30d11$a5f04d20$b17505d1@jimcarolyn> Message-ID: <008f01c30f21$9bbba810$81cb94d1@remains> why don't you try to do something to raise funds to purchase the land yourself? petition local business to donate funds....set the place up as a $5.00 per day collect rocks place for the kids.....something like that ask the city to donate it for this purpose...get the local papers involved ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim and Carolyn Ebsary" To: Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 5:06 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Montrose Road Rock dump, Niagara Falls Ontario > Hello all > > In a recent move by Niagara Falls city council, the Montrose Rd rock dump > has been declared surplus land, and as such, will be cleared and put up for > sale. The neighborhood is up in arms, and feel that the property should be > made into a park. > > Both sides have a negative impact to us rockhounds. The property will be > landscaped if sold to developers. If kept as parkland, we won't be > permitted to collect any more. > > City council will be debating the issue tomorrow night. Either way, if you > haven't got anything from this site, now would be a good time to get in > there. > > Regards > The Niagara Peninsula Geological Society > Jim Ebsary, Director > jime@iaw.on.ca > http://www.iaw.on.ca/~jime > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 30 08:39:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Dan Z) Date: Wed Apr 30 07:39:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Autunite storage References: Message-ID: <000901c30f26$2579f7b0$6400a8c0@ManyFacetsXP> >From Sinkankas "Gemstone & Mineral Data Book" "... it is safe to gently rinse in distilled water immediately after removal from ground. Rewetting thereafter must be avoided lest it accelerate crumbling of crystals. If possible store under glass or plastic cover to avoid airborne dirt.... Some specimens, especially the large thick curved books, tend to crumble due to loss of water. Various methods have been used to forestall such self-destruction including clear lacquer spraying or soaking in greatly diluted clear lacquer. Some success with these methods has been reported. Another method uses use a very dilute solution of vinyl acetate ("white") glue to which some wetting agent has been added to hasten penetration of water into the crystals. After soaking, specimen is toweled dry then allowed to dry further for several days in normal air. Others recommend placing specimens in boxes with dampened paper or other water-retaining material as soon as specimens are removed from the ground, and then preserving thereafter in sealed plastic boxes containing a small pad of water-soaked material to retain moist atmosphere." -dan- __ Let the banks dispose of them for you! Write NO! across those credit card apps, and stuff everything including the original envelope into the postage-paid envelope, and mail it all back.... Rock Shop: http://www.ManyFacets.com Personal: http://www.ManyFacets.com/dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Gilmore" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 8:09 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Autunite storage > Folks: > > I'd like to store and display autunite thumbnails in perky boxes and the > like, but there must be a way to keep the contents relatively moist to > prevent specimen death by dehydration. Keeping a moist sponge inside the box > has only fogged the box, or led to a nice crop of mold. It's getting so I > hardly bother to bring autuinite home. Any suggestions for maintaining this > beautiful mineral? > > Paul Gilmore > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 30 08:50:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Bob G) Date: Wed Apr 30 07:50:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Montrose Road Rock dump, Niagara Falls Ontario References: <005801c30d11$a5f04d20$b17505d1@jimcarolyn> Message-ID: <3EAFE25E.6080506@netscape.net> The city of Sylvania, Ohio has made an old quarriy into a fossil collecting park. The Silica quarries are a famous trilobite area. http://www.cityofsylvania.com/Parks/cparklst.htm Last fall some contractors even hauled some material into the middle of town for a kids day. Good luck convincing you city leaders that geology can be both an educational and financial resource. Bob G jime@iaw.on.ca wrote: >Hello all > >In a recent move by Niagara Falls city council, the Montrose Rd rock dump >has been declared surplus land, and as such, will be cleared and put up for >sale. The neighborhood is up in arms, and feel that the property should be >made into a park. > >Both sides have a negative impact to us rockhounds. The property will be >landscaped if sold to developers. If kept as parkland, we won't be >permitted to collect any more. > >City council will be debating the issue tomorrow night. Either way, if you >haven't got anything from this site, now would be a good time to get in >there. > >Regards >The Niagara Peninsula Geological Society >Jim Ebsary, Director >jime@iaw.on.ca >http://www.iaw.on.ca/~jime > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > -- Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 30 12:52:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Wed Apr 30 11:52:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kamchatkan fumaroles Message-ID: <002001c30f47$98cd6c80$c7ee79c3@o8o3s6> Hello all, With a little luck I will be rockhounding on some of the volcanoes of Kamchatka next month. For this trip I'm mostly interested in fumarole minerals. Most systematic collectors will know the rare ones from the scoria cones south of Tolbachik volcano. But there are about 30 more active volcanoes there of which I can find very little information with respect to fumarole minerals found there. Has anybody reliable data about fumarol minerals from the Avacha, Koryak, Uzon, Mutnovsky, Gorely, Zhupanovsky, Karymsky, Kiziman, Bezymyanni, Klyuchevskoy or any other Kamchatkan volcanoes?? Any information about the mechanisms of formation of these minerals in general is also very welcome! Thanks, Maurice From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 30 13:04:33 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Apr 30 12:04:33 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: [LA-Rocks] Fossicking vs Flaunting Mining Laws In-Reply-To: <3EAF3898.4030907@cox.net> References: <20030429215700.2140.qmail@web10907.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030430072515.02f62ce0@mail.aloha.net> Teresa...and maybe Aaron? I never got the original message to which you responded below. It looks like an important topic. Aloha, Kitty At 04:44 PM 4/29/2003, you wrote: >Gerry, >I hear your pain. Australia does not own the rights to this wholesale >chicanery. It is greed that fuels this offense. We constantly read of >areas closed off to rockhounding/fossicking because of low life's with no >social conscience. > >I know of some of the local miscreants here, they do not deserve to be >anonymous, neither should the ones in Oz deserve to be protected in that >way. I do know there are enough honest dealers around that would be >horrified to know they are selling stolen or ill gotten goods. > >I believe you will get requests to identify them, let your conscience be >your guide. >Teresa --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release Date: 4/18/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 30 13:08:06 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (TA Masters) Date: Wed Apr 30 12:08:06 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kamchatkan fumaroles References: <002001c30f47$98cd6c80$c7ee79c3@o8o3s6> Message-ID: <3EB01ED3.9020900@cox.net> Maurice, There is a Russian gent, first name Anton posting on USFG Faceters list. I can watch for his next post and connect you to if you think that may help. Teresa From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 30 13:15:09 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (DANIEL-HARRY STEWARD) Date: Wed Apr 30 12:15:09 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] The OZ story Message-ID: <025101c30f4d$920056a0$905b1a43@uswest.net> I did not receive the Australia posts either. Dunno whatsup but could = someone repost initial mail as I have friends in OZ and topic is of = interest. Thanks / Danny / Seattle --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 30 13:16:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Van) Date: Wed Apr 30 12:16:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Autunite storage References: <3EAF3542.DE77206E@att.net> <001701c30efd$d3bd0200$d8aa77d5@pandora.be> <3EAFB95D.7E9DDBD1@att.net> Message-ID: <008701c30f4c$c62cc5e0$c3ff4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> Autunitite group minerals dehydrate in stages. This group's minerals generally can be "fully" hydrated with 10 to12 water molecules per formula unit. There are some group members with other interlayer water contents, but which share a common structural pattern, otherwise. Cliff Frondel studied the group in the 1950's and others have subsequently. The interlayer can vary between 10-12 molecules and remain stable. When the interlayer region in the mineral is less populated with water, the rigid portion of the structure can no longer as widely separated. Specifically, if the interlayer region looses water so that there is statistically less than 10 water molecules, there is not enough interlayer water to maintain the spacing between the rigid portions of the structure and there is a re-alignment and "collapse" between the rigid layers. Once the re-alignment occurs, there isn't enough energy available to re-establish the old spacing and alignment. The process is irreversible. This lower hydrate is called meta-autunite I. Meta-autunite I is stable over a wide range of subsequent conditions, including immersion in water. By strongly heating meta-autunite I, an even lower hydrate can be created which has been called meta-autunite II. I'll leave it up to you to read the original literature. The path from autunite to meta-autunite is a "one way street". The change can occur on the dump or before you get home after leaving the locality. In the laboratory, the change from autunite to meta-autunite has been observed in just two hours. Personally, I never got too excited about how many species I had with respect to this kind of dehydration. BTW. Pseudomorphs are not atom for atom replacements. at least in detail. They are volume for volume replacements. Atom for atom replacements would be akin to cation/anion exchange. You would end up with the same structure, but a different chemistry. Yes, this would be a kind of pseudomorph, but I know of no good examples. There are pseudomorphs where there is a structural continuity all the way through the grain (crystal) as in amphiboles after pyroxenes. Frequently, pseudomorphs are very fine grained, variously oriented, replacements of grains (crystals). "Zeolitic water" can be lost without structural change, as in zeolites. Sometimes there is a minute difference because the water provided a hydration sphere around a channel cation and the half-site occupancy changed, etc., but it is inaccurate to say autunite's water is truly zeolitic. Yes, the shuffle between 10-12 molecules per formula unit is zeolitic in nature, but the change to meta-autunite is not. Van ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don H" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 7:54 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Autunite storage > > I checked one of the more venerable and responsible sites: > > http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/phosphat/meta-aut/meta-aut.htm > > I didn't know the change was reversible! I had been told it was > permanent, as with so many minerals. I have seen crumbly, dusty, dried > up specimens of (meta)autunite in collections and for sale, and was told > that is the fateful end of all such specimens. I have a nice > (meta)autunite from Spokane, Washington, that is small but in beautiful > condition. Will my passive hydration chamber keep this from happening? > I had heard someone make the off-hand remark that the radiation in > (meta)autunite is partly responsible for the dehydration, but I don't > know if that is true and do not yet have the means to calculate that for > myself. > > Don > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > > I have also heard that autunite will degrade regardless of the hydration > > > of the environment, that there is *nothing* I can do to preserve it > > > permanently. Does anyone know if this is true and have a reference? > > > > I don't know but I THINK that constant hydrating/dehydrating can be avoided > > by keeping the specimen in either of the extremes qua humidity. It can't > > loose water in an atmosphere that is 100% humid (some exchanges at the > > surface of crystals perhaps???). > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 30 13:34:05 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Don H) Date: Wed Apr 30 12:34:05 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Autunite storage References: <3EAF3542.DE77206E@att.net> <001701c30efd$d3bd0200$d8aa77d5@pandora.be> <3EAFB95D.7E9DDBD1@att.net> <008701c30f4c$c62cc5e0$c3ff4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> Message-ID: <3EB0269C.F6D6A34A@att.net> Thanks Van. I don't know what is more frightening: that you know that, or that I understood it. Don Van wrote: > > Autunitite group minerals dehydrate in stages. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 30 14:00:05 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Don H) Date: Wed Apr 30 13:00:05 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kamchatkan fumaroles References: <002001c30f47$98cd6c80$c7ee79c3@o8o3s6> Message-ID: <3EB025A8.435E94D5@att.net> That is a wonderful opportunity! I envy you! Unfortunately, I don't know anything about those localities to help you; however, you might want to check if one of them is the source of the infamous discredited/never-accredited/maybe-never-should-have-been-named RHENIITE. Good luck and have fun, Don Maurice de Graaf wrote: > > Hello all, > > With a little luck I will be rockhounding on some of the volcanoes of > Kamchatka next month. > > Has anybody reliable data about fumarol minerals from the Avacha, Koryak, > Uzon, Mutnovsky, Gorely, Zhupanovsky, Karymsky, Kiziman, Bezymyanni, > Klyuchevskoy or any other Kamchatkan volcanoes?? From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 30 14:06:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Don H) Date: Wed Apr 30 13:06:02 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] books, x-rays, and crystallography: enlightenment Message-ID: <3EB02E29.C4AA56F@att.net> Thanks to all who have recommended books over the past few months, especially regarding the esoteric topics of advanced mineralogy, crystallography, optics, and x-ray analysis. Over the last 9 months or so, I have acquired just about every major necessary text due to the suggestions of good folks; some were given to me but most were purchased from rare book dealers. I finally acquired two that are near the end of my "must-have" list and were recent recommendations: The Spindle Stage: Principles and Practice, and Crystallography and Crystal Chemistry (C&CC), both by F. Donald Bloss. The C&CC, in particular, is what I have needed all along, and for those who have followed my quest to understand such keywords as Bravais lattices, Miller indices, space groups, ad nauseum, this book does a wonderful job of putting it all together. Especially regarding the realm of x-rays, there are drawings of parts of the actual instrument in use overlaid on to the mathematical representations of 2-theta, the infamous diffraction pattern ( (( @ )) ) , and other treats. I just unwrapped it out of the mail, but even just flipping through it I feel those warm flashes that tell me I truly understand something. Of course, I now need to immerse once again in all the math I've either forgotten or never learned, but I knew that was coming anyway and it is the best incentive to do so. For those who want to transition to the next level of understanding crystals, this book contains more inside one volume than any several books together; and for that reason alone it is an absolute bargain. However, the treatment of a complex subject, while never easy by definition, is made as digestible as possible in small chunks with plenty of useful illustrations. I cannot wait to finish it. Don From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 30 14:42:03 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Apr 30 13:42:03 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Autunite storage References: <3EAF3542.DE77206E@att.net> <001701c30efd$d3bd0200$d8aa77d5@pandora.be> <3EAFB95D.7E9DDBD1@att.net> Message-ID: <00c901c30f2d$5d6438a0$d8aa77d5@pandora.be> Hi Don Some calculations can be done here: http://www.antenna.nl/wise/uranium/rup.html > I didn't know the change was reversible! I had been told it was > permanent, as with so many minerals. Al those "meta" uranyl phosphates/arsenates behave much like zeolites if I recall right............ And yes, I recall right (after having a quick look at this URL you provided). > I have seen crumbly, dusty, dried > up specimens of (meta)autunite in collections and for sale, and was told > that is the fateful end of all such specimens. We should ask ourselves: is it the "wandering water" that does the damage or are those crystals metamict due to radioactive decay? If, again, I recall right (I should probably learn to look things up before making profound statements instead of babbling off the top of my head, hahaha) uranium 238/235 is a beta-emitter ( first instance, later decay products may emit alfa and gamma). So, it shoots out a high-energetic electron upon transmutating into radium into radon into polonium.... eventually into stable lead. The beta radiation is capable of creating crystal defects while the different ion-radii of the consequent transmutations of the U238 decay will also add to the destruction of any crystal lattice, regardless of the bond strengths. > I had heard someone make the off-hand remark that the radiation in > (meta)autunite is partly responsible for the dehydration, but I don't > know if that is true and do not yet have the means to calculate that for > myself. Then, just a thought, not science: Also in on the "mineral.galleries.com" is this: "Zeolites are characterized by their ability to lose and absorb water without damage to their crystal structures. The large channels explain the consistent low specific gravity of these minerals." Could it be that this cage-like structure, in which the atoms are relatively far apart, has a side effect? If the atoms are more widely spaced their mutual attraction will be less than in more tightly packed sturctures (crystal bonds, not molecular bonds). So they would indeed be intrinsically more fragile rather than as a result of water migration or radioactivity. Cheers Axel From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 30 20:26:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Apr 30 19:26:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Autunite storage In-Reply-To: <00c901c30f2d$5d6438a0$d8aa77d5@pandora.be> Message-ID: Uranium (U-238) IIRC has a half life of 4.5 Billion years and so the actual production of particles is rather on the low side. I find it unlikely that there are enough produced to cause rapid crystal degradation. Bryan > > Hi Don > > Some calculations can be done here: > http://www.antenna.nl/wise/uranium/rup.html > > > I didn't know the change was reversible! I had been told it was > > permanent, as with so many minerals. > > Al those "meta" uranyl phosphates/arsenates behave much like zeolites if I > recall right............ And yes, I recall right (after having a > quick look > at this URL you provided). > > > I have seen crumbly, dusty, dried > > up specimens of (meta)autunite in collections and for sale, and was told > > that is the fateful end of all such specimens. > > We should ask ourselves: is it the "wandering water" that does > the damage or > are those crystals metamict due to radioactive decay? > If, again, I recall right (I should probably learn to look things > up before > making profound statements instead of babbling off the top of my head, > hahaha) uranium 238/235 is a beta-emitter ( first instance, later decay > products may emit alfa and gamma). So, it shoots out a high-energetic > electron upon transmutating into radium into radon into polonium.... > eventually into stable lead. > The beta radiation is capable of creating crystal defects while the > different ion-radii of the consequent transmutations of the U238 > decay will > also add to the destruction of any crystal lattice, regardless of the bond > strengths. > > > I had heard someone make the off-hand remark that the radiation in > > (meta)autunite is partly responsible for the dehydration, but I don't > > know if that is true and do not yet have the means to calculate that for > > myself. > > Then, just a thought, not science: > Also in on the "mineral.galleries.com" is this: "Zeolites are > characterized > by their ability to lose and absorb water without damage to their crystal > structures. The large channels explain the consistent low specific gravity > of these minerals." > Could it be that this cage-like structure, in which the atoms are > relatively > far apart, has a side effect? If the atoms are more widely spaced their > mutual attraction will be less than in more tightly packed sturctures > (crystal bonds, not molecular bonds). So they would indeed be > intrinsically > more fragile rather than as a result of water migration or radioactivity. > > Cheers > > Axel > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Apr 30 20:40:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (J. Campbell) Date: Wed Apr 30 19:40:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Going to South Dakota. In-Reply-To: <20030501010003.27842.29933.Mailman@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20030501023901.98527.qmail@web40306.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, I'm heading out to the Black Hills region at the end of May to get some field research in over the summer. The main plan is to try and get to some of the mica mines around there for collecting samples. If anyone happens to know of any mines that are open to the public or of any way I can contact the owners of the mine to get permission, I'd greatly appreciate it. Jessica Campbell __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com