From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Nov 1 03:15:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Nov 1 03:15:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moonrock theft References: <003f01c39f9b$8d284640$709f77d5@axel> <3FA331E1.2C32@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <004c01c3a069$471255a0$319f77d5@axel> ! Bow... bow... making several reverences... slightly blushing.... bowing again.... ;-)))))))) Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 5:16 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Moonrock theft > ! > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > Yesterday, after more than 15 months, the curtain fell for Thad Ryan Roberts, the mastermind behind the theft of the Apollo moon rock samples and Mars meteorites. He got 8 years and 4 months of jail-time. Cool??? COOL !!! > > > > There's a good article about the trial in the Orlando Sentinel http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/custom/space/orl-asecmoonrocks30103003oct30,0,1501752.story > > > > or go to their home page: http://www.orlandosentinel.com > > > > The only "loose end" left is the appeal of Gordon McWhorter who still claims he's innocent... > > > > Axel > > > > Axel Emmermann > > Lobbesplein 12 > > B-2640 MORTSEL > > 03 295.35.54 > > Website: http://users.pandora.be/axel.emmerman/home/index.htm > > > > Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen > > Werkgroepen: Fluorescentie & Technische Realisaties > > Website Nederl. : http://www.minerant.org/MKA/index.html > > Engels : http://www.minerant.org/index.html > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Nov 1 04:54:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Van) Date: Sat Nov 1 04:54:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hamlin etc. References: <3FA29203.2080908@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: <001001c3a077$2dab76b0$c3ff4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> Augustus Hamlin was Hannibal Hamlin's cousin. Hannibal and his brother, Cyrus, blasted for tourmalines at Mount Mica in 1822, but didn't keep up the hobby. Cyrus went on to be an internationally famous educator, president of colleges, etc. Augustus' brother Charles was a General in the Civil War and was on the boards of several mining companies Augustus founded - Douglass Copper Mine at Blue Hill, Winslow Tin Mine at Winslow, Blanchard Slate Mine at Blanchard, as well as the Mount Mica Tin and Mica Company. Yes, revisionists are a hardy lot, always trying to swim up stream - to mix a metaphor. Trying for consistency is probably a better pursuit, but revisionists do provide "color". I was once solicited to write an article and the editor requested that I put in as much controversy as possible to enliven the magazine for the readership. I tried, but the editor thought it was too "reasonable". He published it anyway. Van ----- Original Message ----- From: "jb" To: Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 11:46 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Hamlin etc. > Hannibal Hamlin ran as vice president with Lincoln in 1860. Is he > related to the Maine Hamlins? > > Re: Selenite see the note "Selenite. Die, You Accursed Term!" in the > Nov/Dec 2003 _Ricks & Minerals._ The title alone speaks volumes. > > Historical revisionism will always be with us. I guess the best antidote > is to speak always as we have been taught, and encourage others to read > the old texts and original sources. > > /Ignoratus vademecum meum est. > > /john > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Nov 1 13:22:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Ydain) Date: Sat Nov 1 13:22:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] For Larry Rush References: <001201c39da6$053f6ac0$0c2824d5@Bureau> <002701c39e9b$63e55800$b9305841@powertech.net> Message-ID: <006701c3a0be$20627660$8f2a24d5@Bureau> Always the same problem (with att.net I think) : the message is coming back with error : - Diagnostic SMTP : 550-213.36.80.91 blocked by blacklist.mail.ops.worldnet.att.net.\r\n550 Blocked for abuse. Please contact the administrator of your ISP or sending mail service. Copuld you open a new free mail ? (hotmail for exemple) Just the time of our exchange ? ???????????????????????????????? From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Nov 1 13:35:59 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Mel Albright) Date: Sat Nov 1 13:35:59 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] For Larry Rush References: <001201c39da6$053f6ac0$0c2824d5@Bureau> <002701c39e9b$63e55800$b9305841@powertech.net> <006701c3a0be$20627660$8f2a24d5@Bureau> Message-ID: <004f01c3a0bf$baab6be0$d1b3950c@mel> I got this once. It is an anti-spam measure. If YOUR ISP is identified = as a large source of SPAM, all mail from it will be blocked by a large = group of servers. Only your ISP can get this changed. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ydain=20 To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com=20 Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 3:21 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] For Larry Rush Always the same problem (with att.net I think) : the message is coming back with error : - Diagnostic SMTP : 550-213.36.80.91 blocked by blacklist.mail.ops.worldnet.att.net.\r\n550 Blocked for abuse. Please contact the administrator of your ISP or sending mail service. Copuld you open a new free mail ? (hotmail for exemple) Just the time = of our exchange ? ???????????????????????????????? _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Nov 1 13:54:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Ydain) Date: Sat Nov 1 13:54:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] For Larry Rush References: <001201c39da6$053f6ac0$0c2824d5@Bureau> <002701c39e9b$63e55800$b9305841@powertech.net> <006701c3a0be$20627660$8f2a24d5@Bureau> <004f01c3a0bf$baab6be0$d1b3950c@mel> Message-ID: <001301c3a0c2$95b87820$8f2a24d5@Bureau> what "ISP" is ? From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Nov 1 13:57:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Paul Hewitt) Date: Sat Nov 1 13:57:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] For Larry Rush References: <001201c39da6$053f6ac0$0c2824d5@Bureau> <002701c39e9b$63e55800$b9305841@powertech.net> <006701c3a0be$20627660$8f2a24d5@Bureau> <004f01c3a0bf$baab6be0$d1b3950c@mel> <001301c3a0c2$95b87820$8f2a24d5@Bureau> Message-ID: <000b01c3a0c3$0f9a4060$6401a8c0@Maingear> Internet Service Provider ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ydain" To: Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 4:53 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] For Larry Rush > what "ISP" is ? > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 2 10:14:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sun Nov 2 10:14:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moonrock theft References: <003f01c39f9b$8d284640$709f77d5@axel> <3FA331E1.2C32@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <003501c3a16b$f5d42700$8a305841@powertech.net> > ! *Yes!!! Me too!!!* margaret > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > Yesterday, after more than 15 months, the curtain fell for Thad Ryan Roberts, the mastermind behind the theft of the Apollo moon rock samples and Mars meteorites. He got 8 years and 4 months of jail-time. Cool??? COOL !!! > > > > There's a good article about the trial in the Orlando Sentinel http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/custom/space/orl-asecmoonrocks30103003oc t30,0,1501752.story > > > > or go to their home page: http://www.orlandosentinel.com > > > > The only "loose end" left is the appeal of Gordon McWhorter who still claims he's innocent... > > > > Axel > > > > Axel Emmermann > > Lobbesplein 12 > > B-2640 MORTSEL > > 03 295.35.54 > > Website: http://users.pandora.be/axel.emmerman/home/index.htm > > > > Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen > > Werkgroepen: Fluorescentie & Technische Realisaties > > Website Nederl. : http://www.minerant.org/MKA/index.html > > Engels : http://www.minerant.org/index.html > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 2 10:26:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Gary Truesdail) Date: Sun Nov 2 10:26:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moonrock theft References: <003f01c39f9b$8d284640$709f77d5@axel> <3FA331E1.2C32@Tomaszewski.net> <003501c3a16b$f5d42700$8a305841@powertech.net> Message-ID: <3FA54C25.32DA5529@directcon.net> I tuned in late to this thread. I assume there is a hero in this event. Maybe if the hero would publish an address we could all mail a nice mineral specimen. Gary Margaret Malm wrote: > > ! > > *Yes!!! Me too!!!* > > margaret > > > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > Yesterday, after more than 15 months, the curtain fell for Thad Ryan > Roberts, the mastermind behind the theft of the Apollo moon rock samples and > Mars meteorites. He got 8 years and 4 months of jail-time. Cool??? COOL !!! > > > > > > There's a good article about the trial in the Orlando Sentinel > http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/custom/space/orl-asecmoonrocks30103003oc > t30,0,1501752.story > > > > > > or go to their home page: http://www.orlandosentinel.com > > > > > > The only "loose end" left is the appeal of Gordon McWhorter who still > claims he's innocent... > > > > > > Axel > > > > > > Axel Emmermann > > > Lobbesplein 12 > > > B-2640 MORTSEL > > > 03 295.35.54 > > > Website: http://users.pandora.be/axel.emmerman/home/index.htm > > > > > > Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen > > > Werkgroepen: Fluorescentie & Technische Realisaties > > > Website Nederl. : http://www.minerant.org/MKA/index.html > > > Engels : http://www.minerant.org/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 2 11:50:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Rik Dillen) Date: Sun Nov 2 11:50:02 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moonrock theft In-Reply-To: <3FA54C25.32DA5529@directcon.net> Message-ID: <000201c3a17a$55f334b0$753f88d9@maxdata> Just a suggestion (whispering, Axel shouldn't hear !) : if you do so, make it a fluorescent one... Rik *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Gary Truesdail *Sent: zondag 2 november 2003 19:26 *To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com *Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Moonrock theft * * *I tuned in late to this thread. I assume there is a hero in *this event. Maybe if the hero would publish an address we *could all mail a nice mineral specimen. * *Gary * *Margaret Malm wrote: * *> > ! *> *> *Yes!!! Me too!!!* *> *> margaret *> *> > *> > Axel Emmermann wrote: *> > > *> > > Hi all, *> > > *> > > Yesterday, after more than 15 months, the curtain fell for Thad *> > > Ryan *> Roberts, the mastermind behind the theft of the Apollo moon rock *> samples and Mars meteorites. He got 8 years and 4 months of *jail-time. *> Cool??? COOL !!! *> > > *> > > There's a good article about the trial in the Orlando Sentinel *> *http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/custom/space/orl-*asecmoonrocks3010 *> 3003oc *> t30,0,1501752.story *> > > *> > > or go to their home page: http://www.orlandosentinel.com *> > > *> > > The only "loose end" left is the appeal of Gordon McWhorter who *> > > still *> claims he's innocent... *> > > *> > > Axel *> > > *> > > Axel Emmermann *> > > Lobbesplein 12 *> > > B-2640 MORTSEL *> > > 03 295.35.54 *> > > Website: http://users.pandora.be/axel.emmerman/home/index.htm *> > > *> > > Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen *> > > Werkgroepen: Fluorescentie & Technische Realisaties Website *> > > Nederl. : http://www.minerant.org/MKA/index.html *> > > Engels : http://www.minerant.org/index.html *> > _______________________________________________ *> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List *> > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds *> > Subscription Services: *> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds *> > *> *> _______________________________________________ *> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List *> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds *> Subscription Services: *> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds * *_______________________________________________ *Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List *WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds *Subscription Services: *http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds * * From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 2 12:03:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Nov 2 12:03:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moonrock theft References: <003f01c39f9b$8d284640$709f77d5@axel> <3FA331E1.2C32@Tomaszewski.net> <003501c3a16b$f5d42700$8a305841@powertech.net> <3FA54C25.32DA5529@directcon.net> Message-ID: <3FA562E3.5ABA@Tomaszewski.net> Please help honor Axel Emmermann for his role in recovering the stolen moonrocks... http://Tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Minerals/MoonRocks.shtml ...and ask your friends to help too. Gary Truesdail wrote: > > I tuned in late to this thread. I assume there is a hero in this event. Maybe > if the hero would publish an address we could all mail a nice mineral specimen. > > Gary > > Margaret Malm wrote: > > > > ! > > > > *Yes!!! Me too!!!* > > > > margaret > > > > > > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > Yesterday, after more than 15 months, the curtain fell for Thad Ryan > > Roberts, the mastermind behind the theft of the Apollo moon rock samples and > > Mars meteorites. He got 8 years and 4 months of jail-time. Cool??? COOL !!! > > > > > > > > There's a good article about the trial in the Orlando Sentinel > > http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/custom/space/orl-asecmoonrocks30103003oc > > t30,0,1501752.story > > > > > > > > or go to their home page: http://www.orlandosentinel.com > > > > > > > > The only "loose end" left is the appeal of Gordon McWhorter who still > > claims he's innocent... > > > > > > > > Axel > > > > > > > > Axel Emmermann > > > > Lobbesplein 12 > > > > B-2640 MORTSEL > > > > 03 295.35.54 > > > > Website: http://users.pandora.be/axel.emmerman/home/index.htm > > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 2 12:05:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Nov 2 12:05:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moonrock theft In-Reply-To: <004c01c3a069$471255a0$319f77d5@axel> References: <003f01c39f9b$8d284640$709f77d5@axel> <3FA331E1.2C32@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031102101719.02558910@mail.aloha.net> >Axel Emmermann wrote: > >Hi all, > >Yesterday, after more than 15 months, the curtain fell for Thad Ryan >Roberts, the mastermind behind the theft of the Apollo moon rock samples and >Mars meteorites. He got 8 years and 4 months of jail-time. Cool??? COOL !!! > >There's a good article about the trial in the Orlando Sentinel >http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/custom/space/orl-asecmoonrocks30103003oct30,0,1501752.story YES!!! Many cheers, and much gratitude, Axel. Do you (or does anyone) know why the thieves destroyed Dr. Everett Gibson's notebooks of 30 years work? Aloha, KItty --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 10/16/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 2 12:24:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Italian Minerals) Date: Sun Nov 2 12:24:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pezzottaite available Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20031102212637.00eaea18@popmail.libero.it> For those interested in the new variety od red beryl/morganite from Madagascar, I have some nicely terminated specimens available. Go to: http://www.italianminerals.com/AFRICA/pezzottaite.htm or visit : www.italianminerlas.com Regards, Alessandro ============================= Italian Minerals http://www.italianminerals.com quality minerals from Italy and worldwide ============================= From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 2 12:43:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sun Nov 2 12:43:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock Highgrading thoughts Message-ID: <138.2731d355.2cd6c64d@aol.com> Recently I was purchasing some rocks and the seller stated that certain boxes and whole stacked piles of rocks, would be from $2 LB to $4 lb. for the entire box / whole piles....However, if I picked out just the rocks that I wanted only, well then, I would be charged $7 to $8 LB, or more... just depending... Depending on what was my first thought... I also had a beginning rockhound friend along with me who quickly said to me, " why would you pay more for anything that you have to invest your precious time and labor into, not to mention all your expertise and knowledge and also your going to get really dirty - we drove in his car.. and your inhaling all that dust, etc etc.... just doesn't make much sense to me why you should pay more for working your butt off, just to find something good"....He went on and on.... I also think he wanted to get home quicker : ) But anyway, I thought about it and decided I'd ask the question and get opinions..... I know about the word "highgrading," it's kind of like the laborious act of sifting through all the bananas and apples & other fruits at the grocery store and carefully picking and choosing the good stuff, from all the bruised, unripe, overripe fruits & or other, "rotten apples," so to speak....... YET, I have never been overcharged at the check out register, with a statement from the sales clerk of, "hmm let me see, looks like you took your own laborious & sweet time, to pick out some good fruits, therefore, I have to charge you more." The key words here for all of us are, our TIME & our LABOR ... It is after all, our labor, our time, the years of learning, your expertise, your sore back and stiff body & hands, your dust filled lungs, your dirt clothes, etc., and once again your time and physical labor that finally achieves the hard earned goal of holding some good material in your hands & into your containers. Now I could easily understand if ALL the highgrading was performed by the hard Labors and long invested Time of the seller, whereby the seller would most likely need to charge more for THEIR INVESTED TIME & LABORS.... But to charge any customer extra, when that customer is forced to put his or her precious time and hard labor into finding good materials, is backward thinking in my opinion. I know it is pretty much standard to charge more for when we, as a customer, high-grade, but after thinking it all through, as my friend explained above, I now only think it is truthfully justified to charge more for highgraded materials, when and IF the seller themselves invest their OWN TIME and their OWN LABOR into the highgraded materials and NOT use me to do their work. Forcing customers to high-grade and then charging customers extra, for their own time and labors, is backwards thinking, isn't it ?... Any thoughts ? RnL --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 2 12:45:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Nov 2 12:45:02 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moonrock theft In-Reply-To: <000201c3a17a$55f334b0$753f88d9@maxdata> References: <3FA54C25.32DA5529@directcon.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031102105722.02542170@mail.aloha.net> What great idea! (Shhhh) It would be fun if each of us sent something from our own particular geographic location, or alternatively, something of our own special interest or expertise...and, yes, fluorescent if possible! (Again, Shhhhhhh:) Axel Emmermann Lobbesplein 12 B-2640 Mortsel Belgium Aloha, Kitty At 09:48 AM 11/2/2003, you wrote: >Just a suggestion (whispering, Axel shouldn't hear !) : if you do so, make >it a fluorescent one... > >Rik > >*-----Original Message----- >*From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com >*[mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Gary Truesdail >*Sent: zondag 2 november 2003 19:26 >*To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >*Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Moonrock theft >* >* >*I tuned in late to this thread. I assume there is a hero in >*this event. Maybe if the hero would publish an address we >*could all mail a nice mineral specimen. >* >*Gary >* >*Margaret Malm wrote: >* >*> > ! >*> >*> *Yes!!! Me too!!!* >*> >*> margaret >*> >*> > >*> > Axel Emmermann wrote: >*> > > >*> > > Hi all, >*> > > >*> > > Yesterday, after more than 15 months, the curtain fell for Thad >*> > > Ryan >*> Roberts, the mastermind behind the theft of the Apollo moon rock >*> samples and Mars meteorites. He got 8 years and 4 months of >*jail-time. >*> Cool??? COOL !!! >*> > > >*> > > There's a good article about the trial in the Orlando Sentinel >*> >*http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/custom/space/orl-*asecmoonrocks3010 >*> 3003oc >*> t30,0,1501752.story >*> > > >*> > > or go to their home page: http://www.orlandosentinel.com >*> > > >*> > > The only "loose end" left is the appeal of Gordon McWhorter who >*> > > still >*> claims he's innocent... >*> > > >*> > > Axel >*> > > >*> > > Axel Emmermann >*> > > Lobbesplein 12 >*> > > B-2640 MORTSEL >*> > > 03 295.35.54 >*> > > Website: http://users.pandora.be/axel.emmerman/home/index.htm >*> > > >*> > > Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen >*> > > Werkgroepen: Fluorescentie & Technische Realisaties Website >*> > > Nederl. : http://www.minerant.org/MKA/index.html >*> > > Engels : http://www.minerant.org/index.html >*> > _______________________________________________ >*> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >*> > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >*> > Subscription Services: >*> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >*> > >*> >*> _______________________________________________ >*> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >*> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >*> Subscription Services: >*> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >* >*_______________________________________________ >*Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >*WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >*Subscription Services: >*http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >* >* > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 10/16/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 10/16/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 2 13:34:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Lunarcowgirl) Date: Sun Nov 2 13:34:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock Highgrading thoughts In-Reply-To: <138.2731d355.2cd6c64d@aol.com> Message-ID: <20031102213309.46749.qmail@web40308.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, I agree with you. If the seller has sorted it out and put it in seperate bins wtih differnt prices - thats ok. But if I have to dig thru their junk- I do mean junk in most cases- then I want a flat fee for so much a lb. The last time I picked thru slabs I paid 6 a lb. It was all mixed up but wasnt too much stuff to go thru. It was in the middle of his backyard and was a pile about 3x3 and about 5 inches tall. Not that bad at all. I thought 6 was fair for the quailty of material I got. I think I made out ok. I paid something like 53 bucks for a ton of slabs. I sat down and worked it out. I ended up getting like 70 nice sized slabs and another 30 small ones. Tickled me pink :) On the other hand If I thought it was too much when being charged I will dicker with them - or I sort again and put back stuff. Generally sellers dont like to see that.... so they will usually start to dicker with you. Especially when I put back more than half the stack :) I do feel that if any rock, or slabs are all mixed up it shouldnt be per piece or per certain item. I get a flat fee and ask them specifically if that whole rock mountain is that fee per lb or are there exceptions. Then you have them locked in. If a seller changes it on you.. or does what you have described it sounds like a bad dealer IMO. I have also noticed when folks want to move flats.. its not worth the $ your putting in to buy that flat. I dont feel that I should have to pay for someones mistakes you know? I have mine still and dont try to pawn them off on anyone. I usualy give them away free. When you end up bying hte few items out of that stack tho at hte higher fee, you prolly end up buying the entire flat anyways. :) Sucks huh? If I do pick out of a flat priced as a whole... I will just flat out tell them that thats too much to charge and not worth it. I set it down and walk out. I have only done that once. The guy that you were dealing with was charging way too much. What type of rock were you getting? I am dying to know what would make a seller charge that much more for high grading. > Forcing customers to high-grade and then charging > customers extra, for their > own time and labors, is backwards thinking, isn't it > ?... Affirmative. Kinda makes me wonder if they even know what they got and if its good or not. You know.. wait for someone to come thru that knows and ask them tons of questions. I have had that done before. Luckly I was with a group of older rockhounds and they made the price go down. I was new to buying like that but knew good rock. Sometimes it helps to go in a group... espeically if some of them dicker a lot :) More than my 2 cents. Jane __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 2 13:39:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Sun Nov 2 13:39:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock Highgrading thoughts In-Reply-To: <138.2731d355.2cd6c64d@aol.com> Message-ID: In my opinion, this has nothing to do with your time or labor. It's just a very effective way for the seller to move a large number of rocks out of his inventory so he can replace them with newer items. "Buy the whole lot and pay a discounted price; break up the lot and you have to pay the normal price." Or, you could look at it from a different perspective: The longer you take to go through all of those specimens in the box or stack, that is less time another buyer will have to go through the box or stack, so you have to pay for that privilege. I'm sure that is not what the seller is thinking, but it's another argument that could be brought up. Regards, Bob Loeffler Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Rocknlight@aol.com Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 1:43 PM To: la-rocks@yahoogroups.com; rocksandfossils@yahoogroups.com; rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com; rockhoundslist@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock Highgrading thoughts Recently I was purchasing some rocks and the seller stated that certain boxes and whole stacked piles of rocks, would be from $2 LB to $4 lb. for the entire box / whole piles....However, if I picked out just the rocks that I wanted only, well then, I would be charged $7 to $8 LB, or more... just depending... Depending on what was my first thought... I also had a beginning rockhound friend along with me who quickly said to me, " why would you pay more for anything that you have to invest your precious time and labor into, not to mention all your expertise and knowledge and also your going to get really dirty - we drove in his car.. and your inhaling all that dust, etc etc.... just doesn't make much sense to me why you should pay more for working your butt off, just to find something good"....He went on and on.... I also think he wanted to get home quicker : ) But anyway, I thought about it and decided I'd ask the question and get opinions..... I know about the word "highgrading," it's kind of like the laborious act of sifting through all the bananas and apples & other fruits at the grocery store and carefully picking and choosing the good stuff, from all the bruised, unripe, overripe fruits & or other, "rotten apples," so to speak....... YET, I have never been overcharged at the check out register, with a statement from the sales clerk of, "hmm let me see, looks like you took your own laborious & sweet time, to pick out some good fruits, therefore, I have to charge you more." The key words here for all of us are, our TIME & our LABOR ... It is after all, our labor, our time, the years of learning, your expertise, your sore back and stiff body & hands, your dust filled lungs, your dirt clothes, etc., and once again your time and physical labor that finally achieves the hard earned goal of holding some good material in your hands & into your containers. Now I could easily understand if ALL the highgrading was performed by the hard Labors and long invested Time of the seller, whereby the seller would most likely need to charge more for THEIR INVESTED TIME & LABORS.... But to charge any customer extra, when that customer is forced to put his or her precious time and hard labor into finding good materials, is backward thinking in my opinion. I know it is pretty much standard to charge more for when we, as a customer, high-grade, but after thinking it all through, as my friend explained above, I now only think it is truthfully justified to charge more for highgraded materials, when and IF the seller themselves invest their OWN TIME and their OWN LABOR into the highgraded materials and NOT use me to do their work. Forcing customers to high-grade and then charging customers extra, for their own time and labors, is backwards thinking, isn't it ?... Any thoughts ? RnL --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 2 15:06:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Nov 2 15:06:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock Highgrading thoughts References: <138.2731d355.2cd6c64d@aol.com> Message-ID: <3FA58DA0.50F3@Tomaszewski.net> Rocknlight@aol.com wrote: > I know it is pretty much standard to charge more for when we, as a customer, > high-grade, but after thinking it all through, as my friend explained above, I > now only think it is truthfully justified to charge more for highgraded > materials, when and IF the seller themselves invest their OWN TIME and their OWN > LABOR into the highgraded materials and NOT use me to do their work. > > Forcing customers to high-grade and then charging customers extra, for their > own time and labors, is backwards thinking, isn't it ?... > > Any thoughts ? > > RnL > The dealer is charging more for higrading, so look at the issue from his perspective. You are coming thru and stealing the best out of the lots he has worked hard to acquire and break up into lots that are, on average, worth some set price. He knows well that there are some better specimens (he probably higraded out the best few already) and took care to disperse them thru the lots. He needs to charge more for higrading because it lowers the average value of what you leave and he can't charge as much anymore; he doesn't want to acquire a reputation of overcharging for his rock, but he deserves fair value for the quality of goods going out the door. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 2 15:47:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Don H) Date: Sun Nov 2 15:47:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock Highgrading thoughts References: <138.2731d355.2cd6c64d@aol.com> <3FA58DA0.50F3@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <3FA597FB.8AF221DF@att.net> I know a dealer who mines on BLM land, and divides his pieces on quality, running anywhere from $4 to $10 lb. Within those bins, however, the price is the price, and the customer can take their time picking pieces that they like; they will pay the per-pound price. That is the agreement the dealer undertakes when selling pieces by the pound. When I go to any of the rock shops near the Petrified Forest, I can pick through the bins all day until I find what catches my eye--and in all cases, what I want to buy may not even be the nicest material, but rather would likely have some geological or mineralogical significance rather than an aesthetic purpose. Just because I take a long time to pick out material does not mean I am "highgrading." Reductio ad absurdum: A new load of rough comes in. Presume the dealer *doesn't* high grade first (which is highly unlikely, but just say). Now you have a fresh bin of 100 lbs., $2/lb. The first customer comes along and picks 5 pieces, which happen to be the 5 most aesthetic pieces. The dealer charges for "highgrading," even though there was no sign saying so--only a sign with the per-pound price--and instead of saying "forget it," the sucker pays the higher price. Then the next customer comes along and picks the next 5 best pieces, even though the original best 5 pieces are gone. Does the dealer charge for highgrading? And why--technically they have already been highgraded! And so on and so on? Now say we're down to the last 2 pieces in the bin. A customer comes along and picks one of them. Does the dealer . . . you get the point. To me, an appended highgrading charge is nothing more than someone trying to have their cake and eat it too. They don't want to do the work of sorting carefully, but then they try to charge the customer for it because they presume the customer picked the best pieces. To this I respond, "Duh, what else would you expect someone to do? Pick the worst pieces?" I would expect that all pieces in a bin of a certain price are of roughly equal quality. I would also expect that the joy of buying such pieces is the ability of the customer to pick what they like and just maybe, find a piece a bit better than the rest. Otherwise they could buy individual pieces at individual prices. Note that I think the original poster was talking about bulk specimens in bins, not boxed specimens in flats. If I am incorrect in that assumption, I apologize, though my previous jeremiad still stands. I will close with a funny story: a local man of wealth decided to cash in on the burgeoning market in specimens. He had plenty of capital but little knowledge. He began buying large collections and selling them wholesale. One dealer told me this: "So I went over there to look at what he had, and there were some flats of marcasite he was trying to sell for $50 each. They were all rotten and corroded, and I told him there was no way he should be selling them, he should just dump them and take the loss. The next time I went over there, he was selling mixed flats of minerals, no picking allowed--and in the corner of each flat was one of the rotten marcasites." Hee hee hee hee. Caveat emptor, vendor disruptor! Don From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 2 18:26:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sun Nov 2 18:26:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock Highgrading thoughts Message-ID: <1d3.13a002e8.2cd716a1@aol.com> In a message dated 11/2/03 3:48:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, morningstar@att.net writes: The next time I went over there, he was selling mixed flats of minerals, no picking allowed--and in the corner of each flat was one of the rotten marcasites." Hee hee hee hee. Caveat emptor, vendor disruptor! Don, That is why some people get wealthy. They find a way to turn a profit on something the rest of us would discard. The rotten marcasites in each flat probably didn't add any value for the seller but he didn't have to throw them away, and I bet some purchasers learned a cheap lesson. Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 2 18:43:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sun Nov 2 18:43:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock Highgrading thoughts Message-ID: <7e.40b538df.2cd71a99@aol.com> In a message dated 11/2/03 12:44:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, Rocknlight@aol.com writes: that certain boxes and whole stacked piles of rocks, would be from $2 LB to $4 lb. for the entire box / whole piles....However, if I picked out just the rocks that I wanted only, well then, I would be charged $7 to $8 LB, or more... just depending... Depending on what was my first thought... It is common in Quartzsite (and probably Avi) for a pile, box, or barrel of rock to have two prices marked. One is for the whole lot, the other is for small quantities. I don't think it is surprising. If I go into the hardware store and buy a 5 pound box of nails it cost more per nail than if I buy them in a 50 pound box. And that is with nails, something where there is no discernible difference in quality. Where there is difference in quality and you only want the best -- or you don't want that much -- be prepared to pay more. Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 2 20:52:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sun Nov 2 20:52:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock Highgrading thoughts Morn star Message-ID: <19c.1c2a1bd6.2cd738e0@aol.com> Morning Star Yes, I am beginning to think you and my friend are 100 % correct.. I remember a guy selling the same 2 tons of rough rock out of his backyard for about 10 years and he always charged for high-grading.. He had his rough rocks stacked in individual piles of approx. 25 and 50 pounds each. They were priced at $2.00 per pound, so he sold the piles at $50 or $100, each pile, but you had to buy the whole pile, or else pay a high grade fee of $5.00 for whatever rocks you picked out individually from the piles...That of course took time and labor on the customers part alone. I too pick out rocks for colors, shapes, etc and those rocks may actually be poor quality for any type of slabbing or jewelry, or it was just a nice looking rock and perhaps would look good if I were to toss it in the tumbler and see what happens, type of rock... Yet just because I picked it aside from all the others the seller says, gotcha, and charges me a highgraded $ amount. I suppose it all boils down to the miners themselves and or, dealers themselves, should use their own time and own labors to highgrade and then charge accordingly and that is where the highgrading charges should dead stop...... The miners and the dealers should highgrade themselves and have separate higher grade prices for what they know and think to be a higher grade... Instead, we see so many customers using their own time and labors to pick rocks they find attractive / "highgrading" and thus making the customer work for free.... Then, adding insult to back injuries, the seller demands an extra fee for the customers labor, to dig the highgrade ditch, so to speak, just because the customer used the sellers shovel.... In essence, customers are sweating & working for nothing and at the end of their laboring, they are being charged for the privilege to receive a drink of highgraded water... But, I do understand both sides and as my friend is now advising me on this thread, he says, "It would be best for everyone to just let the direct miners and or retailers highgrade their own materials and then only charge higher prices for that individual higher graded material alone..... If a customer wants to put in his own time and own labor and work for free, so be it.. Just don't charge a customer extra, simply because they take their own time and energy to dig through piles of rocks... : ) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Nov 3 02:04:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Nov 3 02:04:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moonrock theft References: <003f01c39f9b$8d284640$709f77d5@axel> <3FA331E1.2C32@Tomaszewski.net> <003501c3a16b$f5d42700$8a305841@powertech.net> <3FA54C25.32DA5529@directcon.net> Message-ID: <006401c3a1f1$c7c56aa0$e79c77d5@axel> > I tuned in late to this thread. I assume there is a hero in this event. Maybe > if the hero would publish an address we could all mail a nice mineral specimen. > > Gary HERO??? Where....??? (Looking around 360°)... I don't see any heroes... ;-)))))) It's just common sense people... Can we live in a world where NO crimes are ever reported and opportunisme is the mainstream ethical attitude??? Now there's a gloomy perspective... The bad guys are a small minority that can only rule us if we let them! We all have to look out for each other in order to be safe. Let's call it the basis of civilisation ;-)))) If we are not willing to do so we give up the right to safely walk our streets. Now, I'm so scared of the idea that someone could actually physically attack me in my own street that I 'd do ANYTHING to be safe...even report a crime! See, I'm no hero... I'm the yellowest chicken on the planet ;-))))) I see that Kitty has already published my co-ordinates (naughty naughty ;-)))) so there's no escaping this bombardment of rare and priceless specimens you are going to unleash upon my unworthy person. No, seriously, please don't go out of your way for me my friends... keep it simple... Gary, thanks for the thought! > Margaret Malm wrote: > > > > ! > > > > *Yes!!! Me too!!!* > > > > margaret > > > > > > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > Yesterday, after more than 15 months, the curtain fell for Thad Ryan > > Roberts, the mastermind behind the theft of the Apollo moon rock samples and > > Mars meteorites. He got 8 years and 4 months of jail-time. Cool??? COOL !!! > > > > > > > > There's a good article about the trial in the Orlando Sentinel > > http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/custom/space/orl-asecmoonrocks30103003oc > > t30,0,1501752.story > > > > > > > > or go to their home page: http://www.orlandosentinel.com > > > > > > > > The only "loose end" left is the appeal of Gordon McWhorter who still > > claims he's innocent... > > > > > > > > Axel > > > > > > > > Axel Emmermann > > > > Lobbesplein 12 > > > > B-2640 MORTSEL > > > > 03 295.35.54 > > > > Website: http://users.pandora.be/axel.emmerman/home/index.htm > > > > > > > > Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen > > > > Werkgroepen: Fluorescentie & Technische Realisaties > > > > Website Nederl. : http://www.minerant.org/MKA/index.html > > > > Engels : http://www.minerant.org/index.html > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Nov 3 02:08:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Nov 3 02:08:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moonrock theft References: <000201c3a17a$55f334b0$753f88d9@maxdata> Message-ID: <006a01c3a1f2$4acc33c0$e79c77d5@axel> > Just a suggestion (whispering, Axel shouldn't hear !) : if you do so, make it a fluorescent one... > Rik My hearing is worse than ever... even with my ear glued to the monitor I hear nothing but a slight humming... To bad... now I missed this one... Axel > > *-----Original Message----- > *From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > *[mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Gary Truesdail > *Sent: zondag 2 november 2003 19:26 > *To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > *Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Moonrock theft > * > * > *I tuned in late to this thread. I assume there is a hero in > *this event. Maybe if the hero would publish an address we > *could all mail a nice mineral specimen. > * > *Gary > * > *Margaret Malm wrote: > * > *> > ! > *> > *> *Yes!!! Me too!!!* > *> > *> margaret > *> > *> > > *> > Axel Emmermann wrote: > *> > > > *> > > Hi all, > *> > > > *> > > Yesterday, after more than 15 months, the curtain fell for Thad > *> > > Ryan > *> Roberts, the mastermind behind the theft of the Apollo moon rock > *> samples and Mars meteorites. He got 8 years and 4 months of > *jail-time. > *> Cool??? COOL !!! > *> > > > *> > > There's a good article about the trial in the Orlando Sentinel > *> > *http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/custom/space/orl-*asecmoonrocks3010 > *> 3003oc > *> t30,0,1501752.story > *> > > > *> > > or go to their home page: http://www.orlandosentinel.com > *> > > > *> > > The only "loose end" left is the appeal of Gordon McWhorter who > *> > > still > *> claims he's innocent... > *> > > > *> > > Axel > *> > > > *> > > Axel Emmermann > *> > > Lobbesplein 12 > *> > > B-2640 MORTSEL > *> > > 03 295.35.54 > *> > > Website: http://users.pandora.be/axel.emmerman/home/index.htm > *> > > > *> > > Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen > *> > > Werkgroepen: Fluorescentie & Technische Realisaties Website > *> > > Nederl. : http://www.minerant.org/MKA/index.html > *> > > Engels : http://www.minerant.org/index.html > *> > _______________________________________________ > *> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > *> > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > *> > Subscription Services: > *> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > *> > > *> > *> _______________________________________________ > *> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > *> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > *> Subscription Services: > *> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > * > *_______________________________________________ > *Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > *WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > *Subscription Services: > *http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > * > * > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Nov 3 02:40:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Nov 3 02:40:02 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moonrock theft References: <003f01c39f9b$8d284640$709f77d5@axel><3FA331E1.2C32@Tomaszewski.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20031102101719.02558910@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <008a01c3a1f6$bd633c90$e79c77d5@axel> >YES!!! Many cheers, and much gratitude, Axel. You're most welcome, Kitty! >Do you (or does anyone) know why the thieves destroyed Dr. Everett Gibson's >notebooks of 30 years work? Cheer stupidity, jealousy, irresponsible negligence, frustration? I think the latter! Roberts offered me several KILO's of samples. He thought that the safe of Dr. Gibson contained several large moonrocks (which he had seen on previous occasions). He also thought that he had the combination of that safe but in reality he had only some numbers that were used to calculate the combination through an algorithm only known to Dr.Gibson. If he had known the combination, the heist would not have been discovered for weeks after... So when he started the heist, he first found himself locked out of the safe. Not having the combination Roberts had to either abort the heist or take the whole safe. He took the safe, thereby risking immediate exposure. It took great effort and risk to smuggle the safe out of JSC and more effort to open it. Imaging his disappointment when there were only just over 100 grams of moon"pebbles" in the safe instead of kilos! I think that is why he wanted to hurt Dr Gibson for crossing his "masterplan". I think it was the uncontrolled hysteric rage of a spoiled brat that wiped thirty years of research out of existance. I know Dr. Everett Gibson personally. He's a great guy and I know he doesn't deserve this. He has been victimized by this senseless act in a way that we cannot even begin to understand... It is precisely as judge Conway said: Roberts could write a book about what he did (and it looks like he's doing just that)... so could I... Dr. Gibson is the only one left empty-handed and that is a crying shame! So, I hope this answers your question Kitty? Aloha right back to you ;-))) Axel --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 10/16/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Nov 3 10:59:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (ItalianMinerals) Date: Mon Nov 3 10:59:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pezzottaite Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20031103195617.02520798@popmail.libero.it> Hi there, a new rare beryl has been found among the pegmatites in Madagascar and it has been called Pezzottaite to celebrate the italian mineralogist and professor Pezzotta. I have some of this rare beryl available in nice and well defined crystals on matrix. If interested you can see them at: http://www.italianminerals.com/AFRICA/pezzottaite.htm Regards, Alessandro www.italianminerals.com ===================== Visit us at: http://www.ItalianMinerals.com for quality minerals !! Check our auctions on Ebay at: http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=italianminerals ===================== --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Nov 3 11:52:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Mon Nov 3 11:52:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock Highgrading thoughts References: <138.2731d355.2cd6c64d@aol.com> Message-ID: <000f01c3a242$d2222460$c2325841@powertech.net> > Recently I was purchasing some rocks and the seller stated that certain boxes > and whole stacked piles of rocks, would be from $2 LB to $4 lb. for the > entire box / whole piles....However, if I picked out just the rocks that I wanted > only, well then, I would be charged $7 to $8 LB, or more... just depending... > Depending on what was my first thought... > > I also had a beginning rockhound friend along with me who quickly said to me, > " why would you pay more for anything that you have to invest your precious > time and labor into, not to mention all your expertise and knowledge and also > your going to get really dirty - we drove in his car.. and your inhaling all > that dust, etc etc.... just doesn't make much sense to me why you should pay > more for working your butt off, just to find something good".... > > But anyway, I thought about it and decided I'd ask the question and get > opinions..... > > I know about the word "highgrading," it's kind of like the laborious act of > sifting through all the bananas and apples & other fruits at the grocery store > and carefully picking and choosing the good stuff, from all the bruised, > unripe, overripe fruits & or other, "rotten apples," so to speak....... YET, I > have never been overcharged at the check out register, with a statement > from the sales clerk of, "hmm let me see, looks like you took your own > laborious & sweet time, to pick out some good fruits, therefore, I have to > charge you more." > > The key words here for all of us are, our TIME & our LABOR ... > > It is after all, our labor, our time, the years of learning, your expertise, > your sore back and stiff body & hands, your dust filled lungs, your dirt > clothes, etc., and once again your time and physical labor that finally > achieves the hard earned goal of holding some good material in your > hands & into your containers. > > Now I could easily understand if ALL the highgrading was performed by the > hard Labors and long invested Time of the seller, whereby the seller would > most likely need to charge more for THEIR INVESTED TIME & > LABORS.... > I know it is pretty much standard to charge more for when we, as a > customer, > high-grade, but after thinking it all through, as my friend explained above, I > now only think it is truthfully justified to charge more for highgraded > materials, when and IF the seller themselves invest their OWN TIME and > their OWN LABOR into the highgraded materials and NOT use me to do > their work. > > Forcing customers to high-grade and then charging customers extra, for > their own time and labors, is backwards thinking, isn't it ?... > Any thoughts ? > RnL No, I really don't. Of course, it does depend to some extent on whose side you are looking at it from. Please excuse me for using Australian examples, but that is what I am most familiar with (although I am an American. ) Consider, for instance, the Sapphire miners in Australia, who have stopped mining for awhile. Why? Because the Thais, who were their principal purchasers, suddenly demanded to be permitted to high-grade the material, and buy only the gems they want -- and for the same price as they were paying for the job lots. This would leave the miners with the smaller, and thus less desirable (but still valuable) gems, that they would not be able to sell otherwise. (At least to the large-scale buyers). Also, consider the opal miners in Australia. When a buyer goes to buy from a miner, he/she is presented with "packets" that contain not only the really superb stuff, but also the lesser but still good ones. He is not allowed to high-grade; there is just a single cost for the whole packet. Iin buying the packet, the buyer not only gets a few great opals that he will be able to sell for much more than what he paid for the whole lot, but then he also has, essentially for free, a lot of other very good opals that he can make some more good money from. After all, most people who buy from him are not looking for a $30,000 opal to put in his wife's birthday bracelet; they are looking for something lovely but much more affordable. And the miner got a good price for *all* of his good opal that he worked so hard to mine. When you go to a rock show and buy a jar of opal, (you have to buy the whole jar) you don't expect every one of them to be of top quality. After all, these will be the ones too small or with not enough "flash" to be economically feasible for them to cut. But there *will* be at least one in there (usually in a spot where you can see it easily) that will be worth at least the cost of the jar. (These jars are *very* popular with the Chinese, who do not mind spending hours and hours painstakingly piecing together tiny chips and bits into lovely opals that you can hardly tell have been pieced together, and that sell for surprisingly low prices.) Your dealer was obviously using the same philosophy. He was selling wholesale, not retail, right?? and he was looking to sell it all, and not end up stuck with a bunch of lesser material. So he mixed it all in together, and priced it as job lots. If you are looking for superb specimens, you have to expect to pay for them. Even if you have to pick them out of the pile with your own front paws. You'd probably get a better deal buying the pile, or box, that contains the specimen you want. And then you would also have some stuff to trade with friends. You speak of all the "labor" going through them to pick out what you want. (Which may not, BTW, be what someone else would be looking for). Have you considered the labor, time, wear-and tear, etc. it cost him (or whomever he got the material from) to mine them, in the first place? ***And, believe me, that seller *has* done some careful sorting, into the piles and boxes***! If you are just looking for some nice specimens, without having to go to the time, trouble, energy, etc. to go out and find them yourself, you could better go to a rock shop and buy them all neatly cleaned, identified, labeled, and mounted in boxes, or whatever you want. for very little labor on your part. In fact, you ould probably call the shop, tell them what you want, and have them shipped to you -- all with spending very little time and almost no energy on your part. Just my thoughts. margaret > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Nov 3 16:21:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Stuart Schmitt) Date: Mon Nov 3 16:21:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Low Grading? References: <138.2731d355.2cd6c64d@aol.com> <000f01c3a242$d2222460$c2325841@powertech.net> Message-ID: <001001c3a269$75a306b0$6400a8c0@STUART> Low Grading... I actually charge more for "low-grading". When my customers want to pick from my "un-graded" tables of quartz crystal points and clusters I charge them more than if they want to buy the whole table. By my standards they seem to pick the worst, low grade crystals.... so they are "low-grading" me. As long as they get what they want at a price they are willing to pay, we are both satisfied with the experience. Just another perspective (smile)? With appreciation & gratitude, Stuart Schmitt Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine www.arcrystalmine.com 60 Mary's Eagle Trail Mount Ida, AR 71957 (870) 867-2443 From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Nov 3 16:26:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon Nov 3 16:26:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] St. Louis Show This Weekend Message-ID: <20031103.182244.-523255.2.kjvgorock@juno.com> Hi All, The St. Louis Mineral & Gem Society is having its 46th Annual show this weekend. It's one of the best in the St. Louis area. It's held at the Stratford Inn on the outer road of I-44 across from the Chrysler plant. Specifically 800 South Highway Drive, Fenton, MO 63026 Hours are Fri 4-8, Sat 10-7, Sun 10-5 Cost: $2 adults, $1 students w/ ID, $0 children 12 & younger, $0 Scouts in uniform Show Chairperson is Melissa Perucca (636-861-3865) Our Gangue Minerals (Stan Perry) and Hurlburt Minerals (Roy Hurlburt) are two mineral dealers I know will be there among others. Also, I'll be there with plenty of Keokuk geodes cracked & uncracked. Kenneth Vaisvil ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Nov 3 18:08:17 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon Nov 3 18:08:17 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Low Grading? - - Message-ID: <1a2.1c488fd9.2cd863e3@aol.com> Isn't that a lot like selling low grade bottles of wine, for high grade prices?. Like thinking..... OK you foolish novices and experts alike, I will sell you my finest bottle of high grade champagne wine / "Cristal" champagne, or is it crystal... - pun intended - for $500 per bottle....... However, if you don't want that $500 bottle and you choose your own wine, I'll charge you $700 each bottle, even if you pick out a bottle of Ripple wine. The problem is that the world is so fast pace now, no one has much time anymore and what time we rockhounds do have, we need to and like to feel that, the dealers are being fair and honest with us. Every dealer and every rockhound knows lapidary people are always thirsty for rocks, just don't take too much advantage of our thirst, by giving us Ripple wine and then coercing us to believe, it's a higher grade than "Cristal"....... Little time and little honesty, are perhaps 2 of the main reasons lapidary and rockhounds are disappearing..... No one wants to ( eventually ) find out they have wasted their precious time and money, it leaves a bad and bitter taste, just like bad wine....... RnL --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Nov 3 19:24:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Dri) Date: Mon Nov 3 19:24:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Low Grading? References: <138.2731d355.2cd6c64d@aol.com> <000f01c3a242$d2222460$c2325841@powertech.net> <001001c3a269$75a306b0$6400a8c0@STUART> Message-ID: <023101c3a283$0ac05c20$6701a8c0@dslverizon.net> I am still a novice rockhound. You certainly have eliminated my desire to purchase mineral stones. Guess I will just stick to what I can find out there in the boondocks. And whether it be a high grade or low grade find, all it will cost me in dollars is some gasoline. My time, well it will spent doing something I enjoy. Appears that this is just another sad example of, "Buyer Beware". In closing, have you ever heard of the word, "Ethics"? Dri-Anna VioletReflections Newsletter Editor/Publisher WA - USA http://www.geocities.com/txdixie4107/VRnewsletterCover.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart Schmitt" To: Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 16:20 Subject: [Rockhounds] Low Grading? > Low Grading... I actually charge more for "low-grading". When my customers > want to pick from my "un-graded" tables of quartz crystal points and > clusters I charge them more than if they want to buy the whole table. By my > standards they seem to pick the worst, low grade crystals.... so they are > "low-grading" me. As long as they get what they want at a price they are > willing to pay, we are both satisfied with the experience. Just another > perspective (smile)? > > > With appreciation & gratitude, > Stuart Schmitt > Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine > www.arcrystalmine.com > 60 Mary's Eagle Trail > Mount Ida, AR 71957 > (870) 867-2443 > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Nov 3 20:06:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Rich Allen) Date: Mon Nov 3 20:06:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Low Grading? In-Reply-To: <023101c3a283$0ac05c20$6701a8c0@dslverizon.net> Message-ID: <200311321527.316019@laptop> I honestly don't see the issue here. The higher price is the standard for the rock/slab/whatever. The lower price is a discount for buying bulk. This is done EVERYWHERE! Bulk foods cost less than the same exact item sold in smaller quantities. Same thing for hardware such as the nails mentioned earlier. Same thing for office supplies, etc. etc. etc. You are NOT being ripped off for picking out a few pieces from the barrel. You are getting a discount if you buy the whole lot, in bulk. Rich Allen (not a dealer of anything) From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Nov 3 20:50:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Nov 3 20:50:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moonrock theft References: <003f01c39f9b$8d284640$709f77d5@axel><3FA331E1.2C32@Tomaszewski.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20031102101719.02558910@mail.aloha.net> <008a01c3a1f6$bd633c90$e79c77d5@axel> Message-ID: <3FA72FBA.2AA1@Tomaszewski.net> Axel Emmermann wrote: > > >YES!!! Many cheers, and much gratitude, Axel. > > You're most welcome, Kitty! > > >Do you (or does anyone) know why the thieves destroyed Dr. Everett Gibson's > >notebooks of 30 years work? > > Cheer stupidity, jealousy, irresponsible negligence, frustration? > I think the latter! Roberts offered me several KILO's of samples. He Jay Leno used the stolen moonrocks in a 'dumb crooks' segment on his TV show tonight. "Who isn't going to know that something called a moonrock is either stolen or a fraud? Well, DUH!" Jay took great pleasure in noting the criminal's sentence. I just wish he had mentioned Axel by name. Please help honor Axel Emmermann for his role in recovering the stolen moonrocks... http://Tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Minerals/MoonRocks.shtml ...and ask your friends to help too. Kreigh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Nov 3 20:58:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Nov 3 20:58:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031103180313.029e8650@mail.aloha.net> Hi List, I didn't hit the mute in time while watching the TV news tonight and caught an ad for "Judge Judy" where she said to a man (plaintiff? accused? I'm not sure): "You are dumb as a bucket of rocks." I give (volunteer) demonstrations at schools and have often used "dumb as a rock" as a phrase to introduce the idea to kids' minds that rocks & minerals really can "do" things, some of which are pretty smart and remarkable. So can you give Judge Judy examples of how a "bucket of rocks" might contain some abilities or qualities that are not so dumb? Aloha, Kitty --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 10/16/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Nov 3 23:07:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Teresa Otis) Date: Mon Nov 3 23:07:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Low Grading? References: <138.2731d355.2cd6c64d@aol.com> <000f01c3a242$d2222460$c2325841@powertech.net> <001001c3a269$75a306b0$6400a8c0@STUART> <023101c3a283$0ac05c20$6701a8c0@dslverizon.net> Message-ID: <3FA74FB6.181AB2E7@earthlink.net> There is a wonderful code of ethics and honesty among most rockhounds. And that is what makes it most worthwhile and satisfying when you are dealing with various dealers. Find a good dealer in your area and get to know them. It is more than worth it in the long run as you will learn from them as well as get great deals. I was fortunate.......not only did I learn from great rockhounds, in addition, I also learned from a dealer that was an active rockhound and he shared his knowledge as well as his finds. The best of all worlds :) Teresa Otis Dri wrote: > > I am still a novice rockhound. You certainly have eliminated my desire to > purchase mineral stones. Guess I will just stick to what I can find out > there in the boondocks. And whether it be a high grade or low grade find, > all it will cost me in dollars is some gasoline. My time, well it will spent > doing something I enjoy. > Appears that this is just another sad example of, "Buyer Beware". > In closing, have you ever heard of the word, "Ethics"? > Dri-Anna > VioletReflections Newsletter Editor/Publisher > WA - USA > http://www.geocities.com/txdixie4107/VRnewsletterCover.htm > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stuart Schmitt" > To: > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 16:20 > Subject: [Rockhounds] Low Grading? > > > Low Grading... I actually charge more for "low-grading". When my > customers > > want to pick from my "un-graded" tables of quartz crystal points and > > clusters I charge them more than if they want to buy the whole table. By > my > > standards they seem to pick the worst, low grade crystals.... so they are > > "low-grading" me. As long as they get what they want at a price they are > > willing to pay, we are both satisfied with the experience. Just another > > perspective (smile)? > > > > > > With appreciation & gratitude, > > Stuart Schmitt > > Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine > > www.arcrystalmine.com > > 60 Mary's Eagle Trail > > Mount Ida, AR 71957 > > (870) 867-2443 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 4 01:14:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (armando afonso) Date: Tue Nov 4 01:14:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Low Grading? References: <138.2731d355.2cd6c64d@aol.com> <000f01c3a242$d2222460$c2325841@powertech.net> <001001c3a269$75a306b0$6400a8c0@STUART> <023101c3a283$0ac05c20$6701a8c0@dslverizon.net> <3FA74FB6.181AB2E7@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000901c3a2b3$f1f64480$97e1fea9@1> Hi all. First of all excuse me the terrible (triclinic) english. I am a part-time dealer, ie, I sell minerals as an hobby, just for fun. In the begining of this activity, I lost substancial money selling the rocks at an homogeneous price. The result was that after the first clients passage, the nicest material sold fastly and the remaining part of the parcel tended to rest on the shelves for ever. This is a sign good taste, and I do not blaim my clients for this, "au contraire". In this moment, from typical wholesale parcels I choose only about 5% of the material and practicaly discard the remaining (the local school and all the kids around are very happy with my politics). From that 5% I make my business, only nice stuff, at a fair price.There is no point in trying to sell specimens that you would not judge good enough for yourself. Armando Afonso - Portugal From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 4 06:36:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Stuart Schmitt) Date: Tue Nov 4 06:36:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Low Grading & Crystal Dig results References: <138.2731d355.2cd6c64d@aol.com> <000f01c3a242$d2222460$c2325841@powertech.net> <001001c3a269$75a306b0$6400a8c0@STUART> Message-ID: <009d01c3a2e0$e559afa0$6400a8c0@STUART> My comments on "Low Grading" were meant to be a spoof on the "High Grading" issue. Guess I shouldn't try to be funny. New subject: Check out the results of this year's "World's Championship Crystal Dig" http://www.mtidachamber.com/2003%20Dig%20Web%20Page/2003Digfinal.html With appreciation & gratitude, Stuart Schmitt Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine www.arcrystalmine.com 60 Mary's Eagle Trail Mount Ida, AR 71957 (870) 867-2443 From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 4 07:20:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Tue Nov 4 07:20:02 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Low Grading? Message-ID: <2D70DCF7.0285DC4C.02180873@aol.com> For the novice collector who is starting out buying I offer this advice. Go ahead and buy. It is an important aspect of the hobby and it will provide you access to specimens you have little chance of collecting yourself. While we have talked about price and high grading a bit, what I have come to realize over the years (slow learner) is that quality (rarity, condition, asthetic appeal) is far more important than price alone. Get the best of that item you can afford, and buy from a reputable dealer and you are not likely to go wrong. Buying lots is rarely beneficial unless you really know your stuff and either can justify the purchase on the basis of the good items in the lot, or have an outlet and use for the lesser items. Trust your instincts and buy what appeals to you. You are not likely to go wrong doing so. Buy on price as the major consideration and you are likely to regret it.... I sure have have. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 4 07:51:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Nov 4 07:51:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. References: <5.1.0.14.0.20031103180313.029e8650@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <002201c3a2eb$73b82c90$849c77d5@axel> Hi Kitty, I found one reference where a rock can act as a barrier between man and bloodsucking nightmarish creatures.... Read this story and you'll agree... (since it's for the kids, I censored the 4-letter words). A vampire bat came flapping in from the night, face all covered in fresh blood and parked himself on the ceiling of the cave to get some sleep. Pretty soon all the other bats could smell the blood and began hassling him about where he got it. He told them to &§%$ off and let him get some sleep, but they persisted until he finally gave in. "OK, follow me", he said and flew out of the cave with hundreds of bats streaming behind him. Down through a valley they went, across a river and into a huge forest. Finally he slowed down at the edge of a cliff and all the other bats excitedly milled around him, tongues hanging out for blood. "Do you see that large granite boulder over there?" he asked. "Yes, yes, YES!!" the bats all screamed in a frenzy." Good," said the first bat, "because I §%£$§&@ didn't!" Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 6:16 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. Hi List, I didn't hit the mute in time while watching the TV news tonight and caught an ad for "Judge Judy" where she said to a man (plaintiff? accused? I'm not sure): "You are dumb as a bucket of rocks." I give (volunteer) demonstrations at schools and have often used "dumb as a rock" as a phrase to introduce the idea to kids' minds that rocks & minerals really can "do" things, some of which are pretty smart and remarkable. So can you give Judge Judy examples of how a "bucket of rocks" might contain some abilities or qualities that are not so dumb? Aloha, Kitty --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 10/16/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 4 08:56:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Dri) Date: Tue Nov 4 08:56:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Low Grading & Crystal Dig results References: <138.2731d355.2cd6c64d@aol.com> <000f01c3a242$d2222460$c2325841@powertech.net> <001001c3a269$75a306b0$6400a8c0@STUART> <009d01c3a2e0$e559afa0$6400a8c0@STUART> Message-ID: <029d01c3a2f4$76798060$6701a8c0@dslverizon.net> Stuart: Being that your message was a "spoof", I extend my apologies for "gettin' on your case". Dri-Anna VioletReflections Newsletter Editor/Publisher WA - USA http://www.geocities.com/txdixie4107/VRnewsletterCover.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart Schmitt" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 06:35 Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Low Grading & Crystal Dig results > My comments on "Low Grading" were meant to be a spoof on the "High Grading" > issue. Guess I shouldn't try to be funny. > > New subject: Check out the results of this year's "World's Championship > Crystal Dig" > http://www.mtidachamber.com/2003%20Dig%20Web%20Page/2003Digfinal.html > > With appreciation & gratitude, > Stuart Schmitt > Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine > www.arcrystalmine.com > 60 Mary's Eagle Trail > Mount Ida, AR 71957 > (870) 867-2443 > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 4 09:02:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Richard@Mineral of the Month Club) Date: Tue Nov 4 09:02:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cinnabar Message-ID: <001201c3a2f6$358b9320$a24e5d3f@t5k8i6> Hello All, Can anyone recommend a good wholesale source for small cinnabar = specimens? We are looking for about 150 small pieces for the Junior = members of our Mineral of the Month Club. Thanks in advance! Richard Sittinger Mineral of the Month Club 1770 Orville Avenue Cambria, CA 93428 805.927.2223 Richard@Mineralofthemonthclub.org www.mineralofthemonthclub.org --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 4 09:06:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (earl verbeek) Date: Tue Nov 4 09:06:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. Message-ID: OK, Kitty, I'll bite on the "dumb rocks" topic, though my contribution can't hold a candle to Axel's. Nature thought of fiber optics long before man did. You've already guessed, I'll bet, that I'm talking about ulexite. If you take a nice, clean piece of this mineral, cut it perpendicular to the fibers, and then polish both ends, you've got an effective fiber-optic device. Maybe you've seen this, the "TV rocks" that are sold at shows. The neat thing about it: when you place it over, say, a page of print, it's not like looking through a transparent material to see the print below; instead the image is transmitted to the TOP of the piece of the ulexite. A true fiber-optic response, you see. Several months ago we had a group of science teachers here at Sterling Hill, and I was teaching them about effective ways to introduce kids to minerals. The overwhelming hit of the day was ulexite, and several of the teachers just had to obtain their own piece to take back with them. Cheers- Earl _________________________________________________________________ Send a QuickGreet with MSN Messenger http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_games From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 4 09:08:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Tue Nov 4 09:08:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Low Grading? - - References: <1a2.1c488fd9.2cd863e3@aol.com> Message-ID: <009701c3a2f5$118ac460$8c315841@powertech.net> Well, RnL, I think you are trying to compare apples and oranges here. As I understood it, you were talking first about buying in mixed lots rather than picking out the one you want. What you talk about here is an entirely different situation. margaret > Isn't that a lot like selling low grade bottles of wine, for high grade > prices?. > > Like thinking..... OK you foolish novices and experts alike, I will sell you > my finest bottle of high grade champagne wine / "Cristal" champagne, or is it > crystal... - pun intended - for $500 per bottle....... > > However, if you don't want that $500 bottle and you choose your own wine, > I'll charge you $700 each bottle, even if you pick out a bottle of Ripple wine. > > > RnL > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 4 09:42:09 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Nov 4 09:42:09 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. References: Message-ID: <008101c3a2fa$f469e450$849c77d5@axel> Hey Earl... enjoyed the vamp-tale? Ok.... must top that.... Hmmm, Kitty, did you know that the oldest abbeys over here had no glass to put in their church windows. To keep out the rain and let in the light, the monks used polished plates of alabaster (anhydrite). The old coal stoves had windows of muscovite to observe the glowing coal. Arsenolite powder (arsenic) will restore the dull color of an old horses hair to a shiny and young appearance. A scam often used by malafide horse traders in the old days (when the west was won or something along those lines...) Graphite will lubricate moving mechanic parts as will molybdenite. Calcite can save you a lot of money and helps you preserve your health... The Iceland spar variety gives you double vision without you having to consume a barrel of scotch... Sodalite (var hackmanite) or tugtupite may change color and back a thousand times or more when hit with UV and daylight alternately just like a chameleon. There... a bucket of rocks may be dumb but it can sure do some nice tricks.... Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "earl verbeek" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 6:04 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. > > OK, Kitty, I'll bite on the "dumb rocks" topic, though my contribution can't > hold a candle to Axel's. > > Nature thought of fiber optics long before man did. You've already guessed, > I'll bet, that I'm talking about ulexite. If you take a nice, clean piece > of this mineral, cut it perpendicular to the fibers, and then polish both > ends, you've got an effective fiber-optic device. Maybe you've seen this, > the "TV rocks" that are sold at shows. The neat thing about it: when you > place it over, say, a page of print, it's not like looking through a > transparent material to see the print below; instead the image is > transmitted to the TOP of the piece of the ulexite. A true fiber-optic > response, you see. > > Several months ago we had a group of science teachers here at Sterling Hill, > and I was teaching them about effective ways to introduce kids to minerals. > The overwhelming hit of the day was ulexite, and several of the teachers > just had to obtain their own piece to take back with them. > > Cheers- Earl > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send a QuickGreet with MSN Messenger > http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_games > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 4 09:46:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Tue Nov 4 09:46:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cinnabar In-Reply-To: <001201c3a2f6$358b9320$a24e5d3f@t5k8i6> Message-ID: Hi all, I don't know where you can get the cinnabar specimens, but this is a good example of purchasing from a "lot" instead of piece by piece (everyone refer to the "Rock Highgrading thoughts" thread). If Richard can find someone who is selling a cinnabar "lot", he will be able to get a much cheaper price than if he went to several dealers and chose a few cinnabar specimens from each dealer. Hopefully this will help explain (and end) the highgrading (and lowgrading) threads. And I hope Richard can find the cinnabar specimens he needs. Regards, Bob Loeffler Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Richard@Mineral of the Month Club Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 10:08 AM To: rocksandfossils@yahoogroups.com; rocksandfossils@egroups.com; RockhoundsList@yahoogroups.com; rockhounds@yahoogroups.com; rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Cinnabar Hello All, Can anyone recommend a good wholesale source for small cinnabar specimens? We are looking for about 150 small pieces for the Junior members of our Mineral of the Month Club. Thanks in advance! Richard Sittinger Mineral of the Month Club 1770 Orville Avenue Cambria, CA 93428 805.927.2223 Richard@Mineralofthemonthclub.org www.mineralofthemonthclub.org --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 4 10:33:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (JOHN STOCKWELL) Date: Tue Nov 4 10:33:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gem Trails Pa & NJ for Sale References: Message-ID: Henry, The individual did send a check. Sorry I can't come up with another = copy. John ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Henry Barwood=20 To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com=20 Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 5:58 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Gem Trails Pa & NJ for Sale I would be interested in a copy. Please e-mail me with details. Henry Barwood hbarwood@troyst.edu -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of JOHN STOCKWELL Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 4:48 PM To: rock hounds Subject: [Rockhounds] Gem Trails Pa & NJ for Sale I have two copies. New $5 plus postage. John --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 4 11:08:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Tue Nov 4 11:08:02 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gem Trails Pa & NJ for Sale Message-ID: <14a.2647998f.2cd952ea@aol.com> i think the sterling hill mining museum has a few copies there for sale. if the interested person asks i think they might send them a copy. Greg Lesinski GSLROCKS 4726 Porter Center Rd. Lewiston NY 14092 Fluorescent minerals, ultraviolet lamps and reference books website www.gslrocks.com GSLROCKS@AOL.COM 716-754-9729 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 4 12:28:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Dan Z) Date: Tue Nov 4 12:28:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gem Trails Pa & NJ for Sale References: <14a.2647998f.2cd952ea@aol.com> Message-ID: <000401c3a312$0080b680$6400a8c0@ManyFacetsXP> I have two copies, $12.95 each plus $2.50 S/H. -dan- __ Let the banks dispose of them for you! Write NO! across those credit card apps, and stuff everything including the original envelope into the postage-paid envelope, and mail it all back.... Rock Shop: http://www.ManyFacets.com Personal: http://www.ManyFacets.com/dan ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 2:07 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Gem Trails Pa & NJ for Sale > i think the sterling hill mining museum has a few copies there for sale. > if the interested person asks i think they might send them a copy. > > > > Greg Lesinski > GSLROCKS > 4726 Porter Center Rd. > Lewiston NY > 14092 > Fluorescent minerals, ultraviolet lamps and reference books > website www.gslrocks.com > GSLROCKS@AOL.COM > 716-754-9729 > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 4 13:50:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Lawrence Rush) Date: Tue Nov 4 13:50:02 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails References: <6.0.0.22.0.20031029123453.0258ae30@popmail.libero.it> <003601c39e6e$93dc37e0$467c24d5@Bureau> Message-ID: <000901c3a31d$6e12a2c0$6eac5a0c@fekib> Recently, A Rockhounds subscriber answered a private e-mail letter from me to him on this forum because his private messages to me were rejected by my server. I find that this kind of rejection has happened to me several other times. This may be of interest to others on this list, particularly those of you who sell minerals to collectors in other countries. Mel Albright told us that some ISPs are rejecting e-mails because the sending ISP is guilty of forwarding large amounts of "spam" via the same servers, and they can't filter out the good from the bad. Consequently, they reject all messages from those offending servers(evidently, the Rockhounds server doesn't employ this procedure). My ISP (AT&T) recommends that the sender complain to his server about this in the hope that this will cut down on the spam traffic. It is questionable in my mind whether this is a valid solution. At any rate, we may all be losing messages (and mineral business) by this tactic. I don't know the solution, and if I did, I could achieve my "15 minutes of fame" by helping to stop the growing spam problem. I just wanted to warn others who might run into this problem with their private messages. Good collecting..................Larry Rush From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 4 13:56:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Henry Barwood) Date: Tue Nov 4 13:56:02 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gem Trails Pa & NJ for Sale In-Reply-To: <000401c3a312$0080b680$6400a8c0@ManyFacetsXP> Message-ID: I would like to have one. Is there some way we can communicate off the list? I guess the anti-spam keeps out "reply to all" processing. Henry Barwood -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Dan Z Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 2:27 PM To: Rockhounds list (DANIEL) Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Gem Trails Pa & NJ for Sale I have two copies, $12.95 each plus $2.50 S/H. -dan- __ Let the banks dispose of them for you! Write NO! across those credit card apps, and stuff everything including the original envelope into the postage-paid envelope, and mail it all back.... Rock Shop: http://www.ManyFacets.com Personal: http://www.ManyFacets.com/dan ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 2:07 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Gem Trails Pa & NJ for Sale > i think the sterling hill mining museum has a few copies there for sale. > if the interested person asks i think they might send them a copy. > > > > Greg Lesinski > GSLROCKS > 4726 Porter Center Rd. > Lewiston NY > 14092 > Fluorescent minerals, ultraviolet lamps and reference books > website www.gslrocks.com > GSLROCKS@AOL.COM > 716-754-9729 > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 4 15:37:24 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Tue Nov 4 15:37:24 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails Message-ID: <19b.1ca3ea90.2cd991d8@aol.com> Hi Larry, AOL has also dumped a bunch in the spam bin; I now check the bin when I sign on. Dave --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 4 15:39:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Nov 4 15:39:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails In-Reply-To: <000901c3a31d$6e12a2c0$6eac5a0c@fekib> Message-ID: Spam is killing email and no one has any good plans for stopping it. Right now I have 128 spam messages just from today in my bit bucket and maybe 30-40 real messages. Some of the big ISP, AOL is the worst, have taken to wholesale blocking of messages. They've blocked a number of email lists like one from the Appalachin Trail group that I'm on. The newest virus making the rounds is suspected to spread by (and written by) spammers and used to attack anti-spam sites and to take over computers to send out spam. This situation will only be getting worse unless some of these folks go to jail. Bryan "Si vis pacem para bellum" > > Recently, A Rockhounds subscriber answered a private e-mail letter from me > to him on this forum because his private messages to me were > rejected by my > server. I find that this kind of rejection has happened to me > several other > times. This may be of interest to others on this list, > particularly those of > you who sell minerals to collectors in other countries. Mel > Albright told us > that some ISPs are rejecting e-mails because the sending ISP is guilty of > forwarding large amounts of "spam" via the same servers, and they can't > filter out the good from the bad. Consequently, they reject all messages > from those offending servers(evidently, the Rockhounds server > doesn't employ > this procedure). > > My ISP (AT&T) recommends that the sender complain to his server about this > in the hope that this will cut down on the spam traffic. It is > questionable > in my mind whether this is a valid solution. At any rate, we may all be > losing messages (and mineral business) > by this tactic. I don't know the solution, and if I did, I could > achieve my > "15 minutes of fame" by helping to stop the growing spam problem. I just > wanted to warn others who might run into this problem with their private > messages. > > Good collecting..................Larry Rush > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 4 17:07:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Tue Nov 4 17:07:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails Message-ID: <16d.23e62499.2cd9a6f8@aol.com> My customers request email notification every time I add minerals to my site (Tuesdays at noon). When I send the emails, it is not uncommon to have 20% blocked as spam, even though the customers requested notification. Hotmail and AOL have indiscriminate filters. I send the emails from my AT&T account and copy my AOL address in one of the emails. half the time it never arrives at AOL (filtered) the other half it takes 2 hours to be received. John Betts http://www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com/ From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 4 18:17:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Tue Nov 4 18:17:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails Message-ID: <147.1bda5f3d.2cd9b784@aol.com> In a message dated 11/4/03 3:37:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, BETDAV97@aol.com writes: AOL has also dumped a bunch in the spam bin; I now check the bin when I sign on. -------------------------> Yep, AOL is catching a few legit emails but they sure put a stop to the number of spam e's I get every day. They have also filed some lawsuits. Have you looked at the way spammers are spelling things now? Like viag.ra, som.a, medzzzz!!! If the put it in the subject line spelled properly AOL sends it off into cyberspace.They have me support. Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 4 18:36:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Dri) Date: Tue Nov 4 18:36:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails References: <16d.23e62499.2cd9a6f8@aol.com> Message-ID: <006d01c3a345$85a59c80$6701a8c0@dslverizon.net> Well y'all, There is a solution. It requires a change in the way we communicate and is RSS blogging which I am reluctantly finding myself beginning to agree with. I belong to a list for a different hobby track, no, not AV's who has all but given up on List email. The bummer part is that you need both a news aggregator (reader) and a text generator (sender). I belong to a group called Bloki which has free membership and lots of tutorials and such for RSS blogging. I am just learning about all of this. Of course I have an aggregator and do receive several news feeds. The biggest hurdle is overcoming the emotional fact that email will no longer be used. Dri-Anna VioletReflections Newsletter Editor/Publisher WA - USA http://www.geocities.com/txdixie4107/VRnewsletterCover.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 17:06 Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails > My customers request email notification every time I add minerals to my site > (Tuesdays at noon). > > When I send the emails, it is not uncommon to have 20% blocked as spam, even > though the customers requested notification. Hotmail and AOL have > indiscriminate filters. > > I send the emails from my AT&T account and copy my AOL address in one of the > emails. half the time it never arrives at AOL (filtered) the other half it > takes 2 hours to be received. > > John Betts > http://www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 4 18:41:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Nov 4 18:41:02 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails In-Reply-To: <006d01c3a345$85a59c80$6701a8c0@dslverizon.net> Message-ID: Yah, RSS is fine for newsletters and such but it doesn't replace the Email List as a way of pulling a group of people together. The guy who owns the RSS feed talks and everyone else listens, on a list everyone talks and everyone listens, a many to many relationship not a one to many. Bryan "Si vis pacem para bellum" > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Dri > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 21:36 > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails > > > Well y'all, There is a solution. It requires a change in the way we > communicate and is RSS blogging which I am reluctantly finding myself > beginning to agree with. I belong to a list for a different hobby track, > no, not AV's who has all but given up on List email. The bummer > part is that > you need both a news aggregator (reader) and a text generator (sender). I > belong to a group called Bloki which has free membership and lots of > tutorials and such for RSS blogging. I am just learning about all of this. > Of course I have an aggregator and do receive several news feeds. The > biggest hurdle is overcoming the emotional fact that email will > no longer be > used. > Dri-Anna > VioletReflections Newsletter Editor/Publisher > WA - USA > http://www.geocities.com/txdixie4107/VRnewsletterCover.htm > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 17:06 > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails > > > > My customers request email notification every time I add minerals to my > site > > (Tuesdays at noon). > > > > When I send the emails, it is not uncommon to have 20% blocked as spam, > even > > though the customers requested notification. Hotmail and AOL have > > indiscriminate filters. > > > > I send the emails from my AT&T account and copy my AOL address in one of > the > > emails. half the time it never arrives at AOL (filtered) the > other half it > > takes 2 hours to be received. > > > > John Betts > > http://www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 4 20:55:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Nov 4 20:55:02 2003 Subject: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails References: Message-ID: <3FA8828D.1B32@Tomaszewski.net> I'm sticking my neck out in joining this discussion. In my mundane job I am an email administrator ('the Postmaster') for a global business handling over 1M internet messages/day. We have a corporate policy of not accepting mail from servers known to be comprimised or current sources of spam; we use a selected number of blacklists to help enforce this policy, and blocked over 2M spam delivery attempts last month. We average one complaint per week about a legitimate email being blocked, research every one, and only find one per year (average) that is inappropriately blocked. We also stop viri. Blacklisting is currently the most effective spam elimination process. It has an added benefit of reducing bandwidth (and *_costs_*) to ISPs. In my experience, ISPs that have been blacklisted for supporting spammers tend to be very reactive and terminate the spammer's account/access to get off. Blacklisting works; complain to the blacklisted ISP. Filters have finally approached/reached the effective level of blacklists. Many have the added benefit of giving you the option of seeing 'blocked' messages. Industry reports center on 80% of email being spam, and the percentage is growing; the "opt-out" model does not scale and needs to be replaced with "opt-in" legislation like The EU recently adopted. J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > Spam is killing email and no one has any good plans for stopping it. Right > now I have 128 spam messages just from today in my bit bucket and maybe > 30-40 real messages. Some of the big ISP, AOL is the worst, have taken to > wholesale blocking of messages. They've blocked a number of email lists like > one from the Appalachin Trail group that I'm on. > > The newest virus making the rounds is suspected to spread by (and written > by) spammers and used to attack anti-spam sites and to take over computers > to send out spam. This situation will only be getting worse unless some of > these folks go to jail. > > Bryan > > "Si vis pacem para bellum" > > > > > Recently, A Rockhounds subscriber answered a private e-mail letter from me > > to him on this forum because his private messages to me were > > rejected by my > > server. I find that this kind of rejection has happened to me > > several other > > times. This may be of interest to others on this list, > > particularly those of > > you who sell minerals to collectors in other countries. Mel > > Albright told us > > that some ISPs are rejecting e-mails because the sending ISP is guilty of > > forwarding large amounts of "spam" via the same servers, and they can't > > filter out the good from the bad. Consequently, they reject all messages > > from those offending servers(evidently, the Rockhounds server > > doesn't employ > > this procedure). > > > > My ISP (AT&T) recommends that the sender complain to his server about this > > in the hope that this will cut down on the spam traffic. It is > > questionable > > in my mind whether this is a valid solution. At any rate, we may all be > > losing messages (and mineral business) > > by this tactic. I don't know the solution, and if I did, I could > > achieve my > > "15 minutes of fame" by helping to stop the growing spam problem. I just > > wanted to warn others who might run into this problem with their private > > messages. > > > > Good collecting..................Larry Rush > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 4 21:39:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Tue Nov 4 21:39:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Blocked mails LA - ROCKS ETC Message-ID: Recently I noticed I am not receiving e mails from LA- Rocks, nor am I able to send LA - Rocks e mails....... This is also happening with several other rockhound and lapidary / e mails groups.. I have No idea why, or what to do about it.... ? This computer stuff is far too time consuming as it is and to now throw another wrench into this Internet stuff, well...... It's just FAR FAR out of my knowledge and amount of time to spend on it. It is a real shame because, this blocked e mail stuff only serves to help FADE AWAY the lapidary & rockhound world even more, especially for us rock and computer novices. Sadly, RnL --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 4 23:51:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (ItalianMinerals) Date: Tue Nov 4 23:51:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ItalianMinerals update Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20031105084222.025a21a8@popmail.libero.it> Hi there, three pages of new rocks have been added and still several rocks are available at a 30% discount !!! There are also the last four specimen of the new red beryl from Madagascar named PEZZOTTAITE available at http://www.italianminerals.com/AFRICA/pezzottaite.htm ! Visit www.ItalianMinerals.com or go directly to the newly added specimanes at http://www.italianminerals.com/whatsnew-5.html If you have time "surf" the many pages of italian rocks, we tried to improve the quality of our photos to let you feel better the rocks we show ! Regards, Alessandro ===================== Visit us at: http://www.ItalianMinerals.com for quality minerals !! Check our auctions on Ebay at: http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=italianminerals ===================== From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 5 06:21:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Anita Westlake) Date: Wed Nov 5 06:21:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Need Dealers for Atlanta, GA Show References: <20031103.182244.-523255.2.kjvgorock@juno.com> Message-ID: <3FA9071E.000014.01212@anitaw.library.emory.edu> Hi Guys:=0D If you are a dealer or know someone who is, and would be interested i= n our December Holiday Show in the Atlanta, GA area please pass along the following:=0D =0D We have a few spots left for high-quality gem, mineral, jewelry, equipment and fossil dealers. Our show is Dec 12, 13, 14 at the North Atlanta Trade Center in Norcross, GA.=0D The exhibit space is a huge, climate controlled indoor facility with easy access to Interstate I-85. This is a well attended show and well-advertised. =0D If you'd like to be considered for a dealer space ($100.00 a table, w= ith a 2 table minimum), please call Anita Westlake at 404-761-7849 or email h= er at: libawc@emory.edu=0D =0D Thanks so much,=0D Anita=0D =20 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/gif image/jpeg --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 5 10:53:27 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (JOHN STOCKWELL) Date: Wed Nov 5 10:53:27 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Blocked mails LA - ROCKS ETC References: Message-ID: I'm finding the rock messages in my "junk mail" file containing the = messages my filter has blocked. Not very useful to have all the wanted = messages filtered, because then I must go through all messages as if = there were no filter at all. John ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Rocknlight@aol.com=20 To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 9:38 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Blocked mails LA - ROCKS ETC Recently I noticed I am not receiving e mails from LA- Rocks, nor am I = able=20 to send LA - Rocks e mails....... This is also happening with several other rockhound and lapidary / e = mails=20 groups.. I have No idea why, or what to do about it.... ?=20 This computer stuff is far too time consuming as it is and to now = throw=20 another wrench into this Internet stuff, well...... It's just FAR FAR = out of my=20 knowledge and amount of time to spend on it. It is a real shame because, this blocked e mail stuff only serves to = help=20 FADE AWAY the lapidary & rockhound world even more, especially for us = rock and=20 computer novices. Sadly, RnL --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 5 11:08:03 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Wed Nov 5 11:08:03 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails In-Reply-To: <3FA8828D.1B32@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: This is a long e-mail that is off-topic, but still very important to our mailing list. Please delete if you are not interested. We definitely need a better way to stop spams. I get more than 100 per day and I've set up my MS Outlook to filter through them, but people have figured out ways to get around the filtering. As someone else mentioned, they just stick a period (.) within a word like "viag.ra". People who do that are obviously doing it to "sneak" into your e-mail, so that should be outlawed. I have another filter that looks in the body of a message for words like "viagra", "prescription medication", etc... but the filter doesn't work because people are using multipart messages and I think that's different than the "body" of a message. The US government (and others) should make a law that says "If anyone willfully tries to send spam (and spam would be defined) to any e-mail address located within the boundaries of the US or its territories, the sender or their Internet Service Provider (ISP) may get fined or imprisoned." That would be difficult to enforce because so many spammers are outside the US, but it would give some of these "free e-mail account" ISPs like Juno a hint that they need to stop giving free e-mail to everyone who asks for it. And for ISPs like AOL/Compuserve that have inexpensive e-mail accounts that spammers also use, maybe those ISPs would start checking into who they sell these accounts to so they can make sure they don't get fined because they have a LOT of spammers. Maybe those ISPs could put outgoing filters on their e-mail servers. For example, if a single e-mail account sends out more than 100 messages (or 1 message to 100 recipients) in one day, red flag that account. If it happens again the next day (or within a certain number of days), shut down that account and contact the account owner (since the e-mails could be legitimate because the owner could be sending an e-mail to 100 members of a rock club he is in, for example). If the account owner isn't legitimate (or the message is an obvious spam), red flag the credit card that was used to open that account so it can't be used to open another account at the ISP again. And maybe the ISPs can have a blacklist of credit cards so all of the other ISPs can see the bad card numbers and not allow them. If the ISP is outside the US, the US can't fine or imprison that ISP, but it could put other penalties on the ISP, such as blacklisting them. All US ISPs and companies could have access to this blacklist. When an e-mail from a blacklisted ISP reaches a mail server in the US, the e-mail would be blocked at that point. The US gov't wouldn't require a mandatory use of the blacklist, but most US ISPs and companies would probably want to use it to drastically cut down on viruses and spams. The blacklist could be accessible by anyone with Internet access throughout the world, so individuals and companies would know the ISPs that they should stay away from. Maybe this "blacklisting" method could have a grace period of 3 months so that all ISPs would have a chance to weed out as many existing spammers as possible and prevent new spammers from opening accounts. I'm sorry for the long letter, but we need to find a way to stop this before we all start losing our access to this and other rockhound-related mailing lists. Stopping spam after it already gets to you is a pain for each of us and takes up a lot of bandwidth. And, some spam contains viruses. We need to stop the spam from happening in the first place. Regards, Bob Loeffler Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Kreigh Tomaszewski Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 9:55 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails I'm sticking my neck out in joining this discussion. In my mundane job I am an email administrator ('the Postmaster') for a global business handling over 1M internet messages/day. We have a corporate policy of not accepting mail from servers known to be comprimised or current sources of spam; we use a selected number of blacklists to help enforce this policy, and blocked over 2M spam delivery attempts last month. We average one complaint per week about a legitimate email being blocked, research every one, and only find one per year (average) that is inappropriately blocked. We also stop viri. Blacklisting is currently the most effective spam elimination process. It has an added benefit of reducing bandwidth (and *_costs_*) to ISPs. In my experience, ISPs that have been blacklisted for supporting spammers tend to be very reactive and terminate the spammer's account/access to get off. Blacklisting works; complain to the blacklisted ISP. Filters have finally approached/reached the effective level of blacklists. Many have the added benefit of giving you the option of seeing 'blocked' messages. Industry reports center on 80% of email being spam, and the percentage is growing; the "opt-out" model does not scale and needs to be replaced with "opt-in" legislation like The EU recently adopted. J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > Spam is killing email and no one has any good plans for stopping it. Right > now I have 128 spam messages just from today in my bit bucket and maybe > 30-40 real messages. Some of the big ISP, AOL is the worst, have taken to > wholesale blocking of messages. They've blocked a number of email lists like > one from the Appalachin Trail group that I'm on. > > The newest virus making the rounds is suspected to spread by (and written > by) spammers and used to attack anti-spam sites and to take over computers > to send out spam. This situation will only be getting worse unless some of > these folks go to jail. > > Bryan > > "Si vis pacem para bellum" > > > > > Recently, A Rockhounds subscriber answered a private e-mail letter from me > > to him on this forum because his private messages to me were > > rejected by my > > server. I find that this kind of rejection has happened to me > > several other > > times. This may be of interest to others on this list, > > particularly those of > > you who sell minerals to collectors in other countries. Mel > > Albright told us > > that some ISPs are rejecting e-mails because the sending ISP is guilty of > > forwarding large amounts of "spam" via the same servers, and they can't > > filter out the good from the bad. Consequently, they reject all messages > > from those offending servers(evidently, the Rockhounds server > > doesn't employ > > this procedure). > > > > My ISP (AT&T) recommends that the sender complain to his server about this > > in the hope that this will cut down on the spam traffic. It is > > questionable > > in my mind whether this is a valid solution. At any rate, we may all be > > losing messages (and mineral business) > > by this tactic. I don't know the solution, and if I did, I could > > achieve my > > "15 minutes of fame" by helping to stop the growing spam problem. I just > > wanted to warn others who might run into this problem with their private > > messages. > > > > Good collecting..................Larry Rush > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 5 12:17:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Nov 5 12:17:00 2003 Subject: OFF TOPIC: Re: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails In-Reply-To: References: <3FA8828D.1B32@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031105121303.01d2a9e0@mail.spiritone.com> There is a much simpler way. Use Eudora. It has a spam filter that is almost perfect out of the box, and it "learns" when you tell it that a message that it incorrectly classified is or is not spam. At 11:07 AM 11/5/2003, you wrote: >This is a long e-mail that is off-topic, but still very important to our >mailing list. Please delete if you are not interested. > >We definitely need a better way to stop spams. I get more than 100 per day >and I've set up my MS Outlook to filter through them, but people have >figured out ways to get around the filtering. As someone else mentioned, >they just stick a period (.) within a word like "viag.ra". People who do >that are obviously doing it to "sneak" into your e-mail, so that should be >outlawed. I have another filter that looks in the body of a message for >words like "viagra", "prescription medication", etc... but the filter >doesn't work because people are using multipart messages and I think that's >different than the "body" of a message. > >Regards, > >Bob Loeffler >Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster >North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) >http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ >and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) > >Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: >http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 5 12:48:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Wed Nov 5 12:48:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails Message-ID: <19d.1c96670d.2cdabbec@aol.com> In a message dated 11/5/2003 2:08:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, bobl@peaktopeak.com writes: > Maybe those ISPs could put outgoing filters on their e-mail servers. For > example, if a single e-mail account sends out more than 100 messages (or 1 > message to 100 recipients) in one day, red flag that account. If it happens > again the next day (or within a certain number of days), shut down that > account and contact the account owner (since the e-mails could be legitimate > because the owner could be sending an e-mail to 100 members of a rock club > he is in, for example). All of my emails are sent to customers that request notification. This type of outgoing filter would stop my legitimate emails. John Betts www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 5 13:30:03 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Wed Nov 5 13:30:03 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails In-Reply-To: <19d.1c96670d.2cdabbec@aol.com> Message-ID: Yes, that's why I mentioned the "contact the account owner". When the ISP contacts you and finds out that your e-mails are legitimate, they can put you on an exceptions list so your e-mails could be sent without being filtered in the future. Bob Loeffler Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Jhbnyc@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 1:48 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails In a message dated 11/5/2003 2:08:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, bobl@peaktopeak.com writes: > Maybe those ISPs could put outgoing filters on their e-mail servers. For > example, if a single e-mail account sends out more than 100 messages (or 1 > message to 100 recipients) in one day, red flag that account. If it happens > again the next day (or within a certain number of days), shut down that > account and contact the account owner (since the e-mails could be legitimate > because the owner could be sending an e-mail to 100 members of a rock club > he is in, for example). All of my emails are sent to customers that request notification. This type of outgoing filter would stop my legitimate emails. John Betts www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 5 13:36:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Wed Nov 5 13:36:01 2003 Subject: OFF TOPIC: Re: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20031105121303.01d2a9e0@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: Most e-mail applications have some type of spam filter, but the ones I've tried are not very good because people are always thinking of better ways to get around the filters. Can Eudora "learn" to filter e-mails with specific bad words in them even if the sender put a period or a space or some other punctuation or character somewhere in the word? Some of the spam that I'm getting might have double letters in the words that I'm trying to filter, e.g. VVIIAAGGRRAA or even just VIAGRRA. No e-mail app that I know of can filter this out, and I don't want to be asked by the e-mail app for every e-mail that I receive. Thanks, Bob Loeffler Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Tim Fisher Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 1:17 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: OFF TOPIC: Re: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails There is a much simpler way. Use Eudora. It has a spam filter that is almost perfect out of the box, and it "learns" when you tell it that a message that it incorrectly classified is or is not spam. At 11:07 AM 11/5/2003, you wrote: >This is a long e-mail that is off-topic, but still very important to our >mailing list. Please delete if you are not interested. > >We definitely need a better way to stop spams. I get more than 100 per day >and I've set up my MS Outlook to filter through them, but people have >figured out ways to get around the filtering. As someone else mentioned, >they just stick a period (.) within a word like "viag.ra". People who do >that are obviously doing it to "sneak" into your e-mail, so that should be >outlawed. I have another filter that looks in the body of a message for >words like "viagra", "prescription medication", etc... but the filter >doesn't work because people are using multipart messages and I think that's >different than the "body" of a message. > >Regards, > >Bob Loeffler >Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster >North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) >http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ >and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) > >Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: >http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 5 14:48:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Don H) Date: Wed Nov 5 14:48:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails References: Message-ID: <3FA97E92.11784D3E@att.net> Bob Loeffler wrote: For those truly interested in this fight, you can join the forums at spamcop.net. The most difficult part is tracking them down; but SpamCop has software to help with that. You can use the free version or the full-featured fee version. You can also ask questions in the forum and be directed to other resources. I have been fighting this fight for years. I have managed to get two of them nailed for sure (for peddling adult material to minors and another one for tax evasion) and have contributed to the demise of others; that was back when the idiots still used their personal phone numbers and P.O. box addresses to peddle their nonsense. Now most of them are website based (for obvious reasons), and I leave that fight to others who have the time to track down the details. It is definitely time to make the Internet useless for spammmers before spammers make the Internet useless for communication. Hang'em high! Don From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 5 15:03:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Jim Daly) Date: Wed Nov 5 15:03:00 2003 Subject: OFF TOPIC: Re: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails References: Message-ID: <003401c3a3f0$51842880$545204d0@jim> Apparently Yahoo is doing a good job of filtering out spam. I average 40 to 50 spam per day on my POP3 mail, and about 1 a month on Yahoo. My ISP's mail server supposedly has a "blacklist" feature, but the only thing I've seen it stop has been Yahoogroups and my sister's ISP, which is owned by the local phone company. I'm about ready to switch all my E-mail to Yahoo. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales Microminerals and mounting supplies http://www.sauktown.com sauktown@adsnet.com or orders@sauktown.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Loeffler" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 3:35 PM Subject: RE: OFF TOPIC: Re: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails > Most e-mail applications have some type of spam filter, but the ones I've > tried are not very good because people are always thinking of better ways to > get around the filters. Can Eudora "learn" to filter e-mails with specific > bad words in them even if the sender put a period or a space or some other > punctuation or character somewhere in the word? Some of the spam that I'm > getting might have double letters in the words that I'm trying to filter, > e.g. VVIIAAGGRRAA or even just VIAGRRA. No e-mail app that I know of can > filter this out, and I don't want to be asked by the e-mail app for every > e-mail that I receive. > > Thanks, > > Bob Loeffler > Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster > North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) > http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ > and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) > > Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: > http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Tim Fisher > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 1:17 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: OFF TOPIC: Re: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails > > > There is a much simpler way. Use Eudora. It has a spam filter that is > almost perfect out of the box, and it "learns" when you tell it that a > message that it incorrectly classified is or is not spam. > > At 11:07 AM 11/5/2003, you wrote: > >This is a long e-mail that is off-topic, but still very important to our > >mailing list. Please delete if you are not interested. > > > >We definitely need a better way to stop spams. I get more than 100 per day > >and I've set up my MS Outlook to filter through them, but people have > >figured out ways to get around the filtering. As someone else mentioned, > >they just stick a period (.) within a word like "viag.ra". People who do > >that are obviously doing it to "sneak" into your e-mail, so that should be > >outlawed. I have another filter that looks in the body of a message for > >words like "viagra", "prescription medication", etc... but the filter > >doesn't work because people are using multipart messages and I think that's > >different than the "body" of a message. > > > >Regards, > > > >Bob Loeffler > >Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster > >North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) > >http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ > >and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) > > > >Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: > >http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ > > Tim Fisher > Ore-ROCK-On! > nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 5 15:43:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Wed Nov 5 15:43:01 2003 Subject: OFF TOPIC: Re: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails In-Reply-To: <003401c3a3f0$51842880$545204d0@jim> Message-ID: Unfortunately, Yahoo isn't policing themselves. I get about 25 spams each day from yahoo accounts. Bob Loeffler Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Jim Daly Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 3:58 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: Re: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails Apparently Yahoo is doing a good job of filtering out spam. I average 40 to 50 spam per day on my POP3 mail, and about 1 a month on Yahoo. My ISP's mail server supposedly has a "blacklist" feature, but the only thing I've seen it stop has been Yahoogroups and my sister's ISP, which is owned by the local phone company. I'm about ready to switch all my E-mail to Yahoo. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales Microminerals and mounting supplies http://www.sauktown.com sauktown@adsnet.com or orders@sauktown.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Loeffler" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 3:35 PM Subject: RE: OFF TOPIC: Re: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails > Most e-mail applications have some type of spam filter, but the ones I've > tried are not very good because people are always thinking of better ways to > get around the filters. Can Eudora "learn" to filter e-mails with specific > bad words in them even if the sender put a period or a space or some other > punctuation or character somewhere in the word? Some of the spam that I'm > getting might have double letters in the words that I'm trying to filter, > e.g. VVIIAAGGRRAA or even just VIAGRRA. No e-mail app that I know of can > filter this out, and I don't want to be asked by the e-mail app for every > e-mail that I receive. > > Thanks, > > Bob Loeffler > Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster > North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) > http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ > and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) > > Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: > http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Tim Fisher > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 1:17 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: OFF TOPIC: Re: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails > > > There is a much simpler way. Use Eudora. It has a spam filter that is > almost perfect out of the box, and it "learns" when you tell it that a > message that it incorrectly classified is or is not spam. > > At 11:07 AM 11/5/2003, you wrote: > >This is a long e-mail that is off-topic, but still very important to our > >mailing list. Please delete if you are not interested. > > > >We definitely need a better way to stop spams. I get more than 100 per day > >and I've set up my MS Outlook to filter through them, but people have > >figured out ways to get around the filtering. As someone else mentioned, > >they just stick a period (.) within a word like "viag.ra". People who do > >that are obviously doing it to "sneak" into your e-mail, so that should be > >outlawed. I have another filter that looks in the body of a message for > >words like "viagra", "prescription medication", etc... but the filter > >doesn't work because people are using multipart messages and I think that's > >different than the "body" of a message. > > > >Regards, > > > >Bob Loeffler > >Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster > >North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) > >http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ > >and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) > > > >Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: > >http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ > > Tim Fisher > Ore-ROCK-On! > nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 5 16:22:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Nov 5 16:22:02 2003 Subject: OFF TOPIC: Re: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails In-Reply-To: References: <6.0.0.22.2.20031105121303.01d2a9e0@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031105162002.01d1e828@mail.spiritone.com> The answer to all your questions is yes. I told you it is almost perfect. At 01:35 PM 11/5/2003, you wrote: >Most e-mail applications have some type of spam filter, but the ones I've >tried are not very good because people are always thinking of better ways to >get around the filters. Can Eudora "learn" to filter e-mails with specific >bad words in them even if the sender put a period or a space or some other >punctuation or character somewhere in the word? Some of the spam that I'm >getting might have double letters in the words that I'm trying to filter, >e.g. VVIIAAGGRRAA or even just VIAGRRA. No e-mail app that I know of can >filter this out, and I don't want to be asked by the e-mail app for every >e-mail that I receive. > >Thanks, > >Bob Loeffler >Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster >North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) >http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ >and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) > >Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: >http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ > > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Tim Fisher >Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 1:17 PM >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Subject: OFF TOPIC: Re: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails > > >There is a much simpler way. Use Eudora. It has a spam filter that is >almost perfect out of the box, and it "learns" when you tell it that a >message that it incorrectly classified is or is not spam. > >At 11:07 AM 11/5/2003, you wrote: > >This is a long e-mail that is off-topic, but still very important to our > >mailing list. Please delete if you are not interested. > > > >We definitely need a better way to stop spams. I get more than 100 per day > >and I've set up my MS Outlook to filter through them, but people have > >figured out ways to get around the filtering. As someone else mentioned, > >they just stick a period (.) within a word like "viag.ra". People who do > >that are obviously doing it to "sneak" into your e-mail, so that should be > >outlawed. I have another filter that looks in the body of a message for > >words like "viagra", "prescription medication", etc... but the filter > >doesn't work because people are using multipart messages and I think that's > >different than the "body" of a message. > > > >Regards, > > > >Bob Loeffler > >Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster > >North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) > >http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ > >and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) > > > >Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: > >http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ > >Tim Fisher >Ore-ROCK-On! >nospam@OreRockOn.com >Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 5 17:02:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Wed Nov 5 17:02:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. References: <008101c3a2fa$f469e450$849c77d5@axel> Message-ID: <001301c3a400$72082ec0$25315841@powertech.net> . > Hey Earl... enjoyed the vamp-tale? > > Ok.... must top that.... > > Hmmm, Kitty, did you know that the oldest abbeys over here had no glass to > put in their church windows. To keep out the rain and let in the light, the > monks used polished plates of alabaster (anhydrite). Here in Soutwestern Utah, the pioneers used Selenite (gypsum) for their windows. Obtained from a nearby mine. Clear as glass, and it came in big sheets of just about the right thickness! Just my 2 cents! Margaret > > The old coal stoves had windows of muscovite to observe the glowing coal. > > Arsenolite powder (arsenic) will restore the dull color of an old horses > hair to a shiny and young appearance. A scam often used by malafide horse > traders in the old days (when the west was won or something along those > lines...) > > Graphite will lubricate moving mechanic parts as will molybdenite. > > Calcite can save you a lot of money and helps you preserve your health... > The Iceland spar variety gives you double vision without you having to > consume a barrel of scotch... > > Sodalite (var hackmanite) or tugtupite may change color and back a thousand > times or more when hit with UV and daylight alternately just like a > chameleon. > > There... a bucket of rocks may be dumb but it can sure do some nice > tricks.... > > Axel > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "earl verbeek" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 6:04 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. > > > > > > OK, Kitty, I'll bite on the "dumb rocks" topic, though my contribution > can't > > hold a candle to Axel's. > > > > Nature thought of fiber optics long before man did. You've already > guessed, > > I'll bet, that I'm talking about ulexite. If you take a nice, clean piece > > of this mineral, cut it perpendicular to the fibers, and then polish both > > ends, you've got an effective fiber-optic device. Maybe you've seen this, > > the "TV rocks" that are sold at shows. The neat thing about it: when you > > place it over, say, a page of print, it's not like looking through a > > transparent material to see the print below; instead the image is > > transmitted to the TOP of the piece of the ulexite. A true fiber-optic > > response, you see. > > > > Several months ago we had a group of science teachers here at Sterling > Hill, > > and I was teaching them about effective ways to introduce kids to > minerals. > > The overwhelming hit of the day was ulexite, and several of the teachers > > just had to obtain their own piece to take back with them. > > > > Cheers- Earl > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Send a QuickGreet with MSN Messenger > > http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_games > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 5 19:04:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (clector) Date: Wed Nov 5 19:04:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re Madoc Fluorite Message-ID: <000801c39cab$f85b9cc0$6800a8c0@larry> I just Googled out this conversation but have some local experience with = Madoc Fluorite that is current and historical in scope.=20 I live relatively nearby to the mines (40 min.) and have been collecting = there on a weekly basis this fall. Now to the question of GOOD = specimens. Spectacular xls are not uncommon from this DANA locality area = and I have had pass thru my hands single xls (cubo-hexoctahedra) 14 cm = on a face collected in the '50s. This is approaching basketball size. = The dominant colour is green and optical quality clarity is frequent. If = the xls are free-growing on calcite and barite and uncovered by these = gangue minerals, the crystals are shiney faced and spectacular. Size = does not diminish the quality of the xls which are only limited in size = and quality by the size of the vugs and arrangement of secondary calcite = and barite. Vuggy central cores of main veins produced the best = material. Usually on crested barite. Collecting on dumps is still excellent in SOME mines. Collecting = pressure has been extremely limited - a huge surprise - in some of the = majors and prospect pits and it is not difficult to find extraordinary = fine specimens with fluorite cubes to 1/2 inch. Some mine dumps, = however, have been very heavily dug. Specialized knowledge is necessary = for success. Laurence J. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 5 19:04:20 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Ivo Janssens) Date: Wed Nov 5 19:04:20 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mr. Axel Emmerman Message-ID: <003701c3a192$ea7f1500$1dee77c2@acer> Hi! Please forward my sincerest words of respect to Mr. Axel Emmerman for his substantial help in recovering the stolen moonrocks. Ivo Janssens B-2547 HOVE BELGIUM From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 5 19:04:27 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Wed Nov 5 19:04:27 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Low Grading? - - In-Reply-To: <1a2.1c488fd9.2cd863e3@aol.com> Message-ID: There are so many analogies to this whole thing, but I would like to offer one more, one that is common knowledge to most shoppers; and not trying to take sides on the issue as both sides can be PIGS!! You can buy beef, maybe a whole beef at $1.29 / pound, or you can buy filet mignon at $8.99/ pound if you are lucky.. should the purchaser insist that he only wants the filet of the whole beef at $1.29 just because the butcher has not sperated that piece yet?? In most cases the only way a butcher can get that filet is to purchase the whole beef and either sell the whole thing into butchered sections, or slect just the filet and other pieces to sell individually. I do beleive it really is this simple when it comes to highgrading and the opportunity to acquire select pieces. Rocknlight@aol.com said: > Isn't that a lot like selling low grade bottles of wine, for high grade > prices?. > > Like thinking..... OK you foolish novices and experts alike, I will sell you > my finest bottle of high grade champagne wine / "Cristal" champagne, or is it > crystal... - pun intended - for $500 per bottle....... > > However, if you don't want that $500 bottle and you choose your own wine, > I'll charge you $700 each bottle, even if you pick out a bottle of Ripple wine. > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 5 19:20:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Nov 5 19:20:01 2003 Subject: [OT] Re: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails References: <3FA97E92.11784D3E@att.net> Message-ID: <3FA9BDAC.1127@Tomaszewski.net> Don H wrote: > > Bob Loeffler wrote: > > For those truly interested in this fight, you can join the forums at > spamcop.net. The most difficult part is tracking them down; but SpamCop > has software to help with that. You can use the free version or the > full-featured fee version. You can also ask questions in the forum and > be directed to other resources. You can also find spam fighting resources (including SpamCop, one of the best!) on my website at http://tomaszewski.net/Family/Intranet/StoppingSpam.shtml if you don't care to join the SpamCop discussion list. > It is definitely time to make the Internet useless for spammmers before > spammers make the Internet useless for communication. Hang'em high! > > Don From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 5 19:38:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (TA Masters) Date: Wed Nov 5 19:38:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails References: <3FA97E92.11784D3E@att.net> Message-ID: <3FA9C26F.6050708@cox.net> About Spamcop, make sure you look for spamcop.net, .com is a scam. I have used it for years, have not seen a "kill" in a long time, but I do enjoy seeing "yum this spam is fresh." Teresa From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 5 19:45:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Nov 5 19:45:01 2003 Subject: [OT] Re: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails References: Message-ID: <3FA9C392.4BDE@Tomaszewski.net> Bob Loeffler wrote: > > This is a long e-mail that is off-topic, but still very important to our > mailing list. Please delete if you are not interested. > > We definitely need a better way to stop spams. I get more than 100 Spam fighting solutions tend to be about 80% effective, and no better. Spammers are now writing viri (like the SOBIG worm) that comprimise systems connected to the internet and open them up as anonymous proxies to send spam; technically a crime, and difficult to trace. Typical package solutions for an ISP or (large) business start at $100K, and usually more than one is needed. Spammers used to be profitable at .5% response rate. As volume has increased the profitable response rate has been driven down to .1%, and spammers are still getting a good return -- but it is declining. Whatever solution that works must push the return rate below the profitable level and put the spammers out of business. > > The US government (and others) should make a law that says "If anyone Legislation (*or* a technical leap) that prevents hiding the origin of an email would go a long way to stopping spam if it had teeth. The problem with legislation is making it global, like the internet. Most of the world is trending to "opt-in" legislation (EU is phasing it in since October) because "opt-out" does not scale. America is the exception; write your representatives, there are 'opt-out' bills being considered in Congress right now. Act locally, but think globally. mailing > lists. Stopping spam after it already gets to you is a pain for each of us > and takes up a lot of bandwidth. And, some spam contains viruses. We need > to stop the spam from happening in the first place. Real spam very rarely contains viri, but many viri pick up spam to (re)send with their payload from infected systems. But I very much agree with you that we need to stop spam at the source so nobody needs to deal with it. > > Regards, > > Bob Loeffler > Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster > North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) > http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ > and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) > > Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: > http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Kreigh > Tomaszewski > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 9:55 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails > > I'm sticking my neck out in joining this discussion. In my mundane job I > am an email administrator ('the Postmaster') for a global business > handling over 1M internet messages/day. We have a corporate policy of > not accepting mail from servers known to be comprimised or current > sources of spam; we use a selected number of blacklists to help enforce > this policy, and blocked over 2M spam delivery attempts last month. We > average one complaint per week about a legitimate email being blocked, > research every one, and only find one per year (average) that is > inappropriately blocked. We also stop viri. > > Blacklisting is currently the most effective spam elimination process. > It has an added benefit of reducing bandwidth (and *_costs_*) to ISPs. > In my experience, ISPs that have been blacklisted for supporting > spammers tend to be very reactive and terminate the spammer's > account/access to get off. Blacklisting works; complain to the > blacklisted ISP. > > Filters have finally approached/reached the effective level of > blacklists. Many have the added benefit of giving you the option of > seeing 'blocked' messages. > > Industry reports center on 80% of email being spam, and the percentage > is growing; the "opt-out" model does not scale and needs to be replaced > with "opt-in" legislation like The EU recently adopted. > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > > Spam is killing email and no one has any good plans for stopping it. Right > > now I have 128 spam messages just from today in my bit bucket and maybe > > 30-40 real messages. Some of the big ISP, AOL is the worst, have taken to > > wholesale blocking of messages. They've blocked a number of email lists > like > > one from the Appalachin Trail group that I'm on. > > > > The newest virus making the rounds is suspected to spread by (and written > > by) spammers and used to attack anti-spam sites and to take over computers > > to send out spam. This situation will only be getting worse unless some of > > these folks go to jail. > > > > Bryan > > > > "Si vis pacem para bellum" > > > > > > > > Recently, A Rockhounds subscriber answered a private e-mail letter from > me > > > to him on this forum because his private messages to me were > > > rejected by my > > > server. I find that this kind of rejection has happened to me > > > several other > > > times. This may be of interest to others on this list, > > > particularly those of > > > you who sell minerals to collectors in other countries. Mel > > > Albright told us > > > that some ISPs are rejecting e-mails because the sending ISP is guilty > of > > > forwarding large amounts of "spam" via the same servers, and they can't > > > filter out the good from the bad. Consequently, they reject all messages > > > from those offending servers(evidently, the Rockhounds server > > > doesn't employ > > > this procedure). > > > > > > My ISP (AT&T) recommends that the sender complain to his server about > this > > > in the hope that this will cut down on the spam traffic. It is > > > questionable > > > in my mind whether this is a valid solution. At any rate, we may all be > > > losing messages (and mineral business) > > > by this tactic. I don't know the solution, and if I did, I could > > > achieve my > > > "15 minutes of fame" by helping to stop the growing spam problem. I just > > > wanted to warn others who might run into this problem with their private > > > messages. > > > > > > Good collecting..................Larry Rush > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 5 20:15:03 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Don H) Date: Wed Nov 5 20:15:03 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Low Grading? - - References: Message-ID: <3FA9CB58.280F3FD4@att.net> buff1@ptdprolog.net wrote: > > You can buy beef, maybe a whole beef at $1.29 / pound, or you can buy > filet mignon at $8.99/ pound if you are lucky.. should the purchaser insist > that he only wants the filet of the whole beef at $1.29 just because the > butcher has not sperated that piece yet?? I still think different people in this discussion are talking about different kinds of high-grading. I agree that individual pieces should be priced accordingly. I agree that whole lots, priced as such, should be sold as lots and if the buyer wants to cherry-pick then they must pay a higher fee. However, I have known several cases in which bins of rough or commodity minerals--agates, quartz crystals, and so forth--were marked $X per the piece or per pound, but when I or my associates picked from the bin, the vendor said afterward "Oh that will be $X + $Y per pound because you high-graded." That is foolishness because there was no alternative pricing marked on the bin, and I'm willing to bet that the buyer would win this argument in civil court. I think someone else made this point: does the grocer charge more because the customer picked the best apples or bananas from the bin? Not where I live anyway. That's the only point I am trying to make, then; referring to this particular and specific set of circumstances. Referring to my favorite example of bulk petrified wood, my chosen vendor has large areas marked with increasing prices based on generally increasing quality, but *within* each area, the customer picks what they want (and is encouraged to take plenty of time doing it)! and the marked price is the price. Best regards, Don From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 5 20:18:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Wed Nov 5 20:18:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Low Grading? /\ Message-ID: <6.1b773cce.2cdb256e@aol.com> I don't think anyone has a problem with specific cuts of beef, or slab cuts of rock, etc being separated by the sellers labor and then priced according to their time and labors and highgrading opinion value.. What some buyers are concerned about is the practice of forcing the customers to put in the time and labor of finding good rock, whether it be 1 pound or 100 pounds and then being charged higher prices, especially if the sale is above 10 + pounds of rock... For under 10 pounds i can somewhat empathize..... If any buyer / grocery store customer, is forced by the butcher to put on a bloody apron, grab the raw meat , hoist it, lift it, drag it and then cut the filets themselves, away from the whole pile, so to speak, well then....... for any customers time and labor, filthy clothes and hands, sweat and grime, etc...I certainly believe that laboring customer deserves a lower price...Maybe not a rock bottom price, as for the whole pile, but a lower price nonetheless for all their time and labor... In truth though, i must admit i am brainwashed to think that if i want good rock i have to dig for it and labor for it and put in a lot of my own time and sweat to get the rocks that i find attractive, even though the rocks i pick out may not be rare or valuable, i just may like the way they look.......And so, i am ready to pay a higher price, just because that is the way it seems to be done.....Is it rght..? Depends on who you ask, a buyer or a seller ! ......or perhaps a butcher : ) smile --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 5 22:35:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Chris Auer) Date: Wed Nov 5 22:35:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails References: <3FA97E92.11784D3E@att.net> <3FA9C26F.6050708@cox.net> Message-ID: <003901c3a42f$f759edf0$fbf498d4@chris> Hi, I`m living in Austria, a country where its not allowed to send spam. Nevertheless I get 80 spams per day due to my two websites where my email adress is filtered by specific search programs. So I`m using Mcafee. Virus scan, firewall, privacy service and anti spam. The last mentioned program not only finds 95% of the spam, I also have a statistic of which kind the spam was + different level settings. I use the highest, which means only friends can reach me (have 500 email adresses as friends). So there is the possibility that some emails are blocked which I want to read. But I can see them through (easily checking the headers) and still get it. An easy and good resolution. Chris Auer ======================== http://www.wulfenite.com http://www.minerlamps.com ======================== From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Nov 6 01:55:03 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Nov 6 01:55:03 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. References: <008101c3a2fa$f469e450$849c77d5@axel> <001301c3a400$72082ec0$25315841@powertech.net> Message-ID: <002f01c3a44c$00544ba0$beaa77d5@axel> > Here in Soutwestern Utah, the pioneers used Selenite (gypsum) for their > windows. Obtained from a nearby mine. Clear as glass, and it came in big > sheets of just about the right thickness! > > Just my 2 cents! Margaret Smart! The 50 ft crystals recently discovered in Spain are large enough to be used as windows in a gothic cathedral. Gyspum is reasonably soluble in water though. So don't use too hot water to clean those windows! You might suddenly end up waving your sponge at the scenery ... On the other hand... finding out something like that is a kind of pioneering too, isn't it? Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margaret Malm" To: Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 1:53 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. > . > > > Hey Earl... enjoyed the vamp-tale? > > > > Ok.... must top that.... > > > > Hmmm, Kitty, did you know that the oldest abbeys over here had no glass to > > put in their church windows. To keep out the rain and let in the light, > the > > monks used polished plates of alabaster (anhydrite). > > Here in Soutwestern Utah, the pioneers used Selenite (gypsum) for their > windows. Obtained from a nearby mine. Clear as glass, and it came in big > sheets of just about the right thickness! > > Just my 2 cents! Margaret > > > > > The old coal stoves had windows of muscovite to observe the glowing coal. > > > > Arsenolite powder (arsenic) will restore the dull color of an old horses > > hair to a shiny and young appearance. A scam often used by malafide horse > > traders in the old days (when the west was won or something along those > > lines...) > > > > Graphite will lubricate moving mechanic parts as will molybdenite. > > > > Calcite can save you a lot of money and helps you preserve your health... > > The Iceland spar variety gives you double vision without you having to > > consume a barrel of scotch... > > > > Sodalite (var hackmanite) or tugtupite may change color and back a > thousand > > times or more when hit with UV and daylight alternately just like a > > chameleon. > > > > There... a bucket of rocks may be dumb but it can sure do some nice > > tricks.... > > > > Axel > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "earl verbeek" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 6:04 PM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. > > > > > > > > > > OK, Kitty, I'll bite on the "dumb rocks" topic, though my contribution > > can't > > > hold a candle to Axel's. > > > > > > Nature thought of fiber optics long before man did. You've already > > guessed, > > > I'll bet, that I'm talking about ulexite. If you take a nice, clean > piece > > > of this mineral, cut it perpendicular to the fibers, and then polish > both > > > ends, you've got an effective fiber-optic device. Maybe you've seen > this, > > > the "TV rocks" that are sold at shows. The neat thing about it: when > you > > > place it over, say, a page of print, it's not like looking through a > > > transparent material to see the print below; instead the image is > > > transmitted to the TOP of the piece of the ulexite. A true fiber-optic > > > response, you see. > > > > > > Several months ago we had a group of science teachers here at Sterling > > Hill, > > > and I was teaching them about effective ways to introduce kids to > > minerals. > > > The overwhelming hit of the day was ulexite, and several of the teachers > > > just had to obtain their own piece to take back with them. > > > > > > Cheers- Earl > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Send a QuickGreet with MSN Messenger > > > http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_games > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Nov 6 02:47:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Nov 6 02:47:02 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails References: <3FA97E92.11784D3E@att.net> <3FA9C26F.6050708@cox.net> Message-ID: <004b01c3a453$4f2a7810$beaa77d5@axel> I use a freeware program that works absolutely fabulous! Spamhilator. http://www.spamihilator.com/index2.php?lang=en It's a German product but there's an English Version. It allows the use of plugins like (the ones I use but there are even more): - Alphabet soup filter (filters e-mails with subject containing garbled text) - Image filter: filters mail with images that are on an external server. - Newsletter plugin: allows to choose newsletters that are NOT to be filtered. - Strange country plugin: Search the header for IPs that come from "strange"countries (example: Korea ;-))) You just fill in the code "Be" (for Belgium) and you will no longer get my messages... Tempting, no? ;-))) - Whitestring filter: Mails containing your white string will be marked as NonSpam. Built in is a Bayesian learning filter that is amazingly powerful. I use to receive some 120 messages a day, of which maybe 10 to 15 were NonSpam. Now I only get the "real" messages with only one or two spams A MONTH leaking through (once, as you can blacklist the senders address.) The first two weeks you'll have to watch out that you don't accidentally loose a NonSpam message by going over the messages in the "training mode" of the program. I'm happy with it! Very... As Kreigh says, however, you must protect yourself against viruses and worms and Trojans too... Axel Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "TA Masters" To: Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 4:39 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails > About Spamcop, make sure you look for spamcop.net, .com is a scam. > > I have used it for years, have not seen a "kill" in a long time, but I > do enjoy seeing "yum this spam is fresh." > Teresa > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Nov 6 10:27:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Thu Nov 6 10:27:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Low Grading? - - In-Reply-To: <3FA9CB58.280F3FD4@att.net> Message-ID: Hi Don and list, When I saw the original e-mail, I assumed that there was a sign that said "$2/lb for the lot; $8/lb for individual specimens". If there wasn't a sign, then I agree with you... the dealer shouldn't be charging different prices. If a dealer did that to me, I would just walk away because it's obvious he isn't a reputable or honest dealer. I'm sorry if I confused the issue. Regards, Bob Loeffler Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Don H Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 9:17 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Low Grading? - - buff1@ptdprolog.net wrote: > > You can buy beef, maybe a whole beef at $1.29 / pound, or you can buy > filet mignon at $8.99/ pound if you are lucky.. should the purchaser insist > that he only wants the filet of the whole beef at $1.29 just because the > butcher has not sperated that piece yet?? I still think different people in this discussion are talking about different kinds of high-grading. I agree that individual pieces should be priced accordingly. I agree that whole lots, priced as such, should be sold as lots and if the buyer wants to cherry-pick then they must pay a higher fee. However, I have known several cases in which bins of rough or commodity minerals--agates, quartz crystals, and so forth--were marked $X per the piece or per pound, but when I or my associates picked from the bin, the vendor said afterward "Oh that will be $X + $Y per pound because you high-graded." That is foolishness because there was no alternative pricing marked on the bin, and I'm willing to bet that the buyer would win this argument in civil court. I think someone else made this point: does the grocer charge more because the customer picked the best apples or bananas from the bin? Not where I live anyway. That's the only point I am trying to make, then; referring to this particular and specific set of circumstances. Referring to my favorite example of bulk petrified wood, my chosen vendor has large areas marked with increasing prices based on generally increasing quality, but *within* each area, the customer picks what they want (and is encouraged to take plenty of time doing it)! and the marked price is the price. Best regards, Don _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Nov 6 11:22:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Hans-J=F8rgen?= Berg) Date: Thu Nov 6 11:22:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Munich show report Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20031106201158.030c97f0@imap.uio.no> Hello There haven't been much talk about the largest mineral show in Europe in this list, namely the Munich show which had a 40 year jubilee this year. Here are some pictures (click on the the thumbnails for enlargement): http://folk.uio.no/hansjb/munchen2003/index_munchen.htm Regards Hans-Jørgen Berg Hans-Jørgen Berg Universitetets Naturhistoriske museer og botanisk hage Mineralogisk-Geologisk Museum Universitetet i Oslo Boks 1172 Blindern, 0318 Oslo Besøksadresse: Sars' gt. 1 Tlf (+47) 22851772 / 92442890 Email h.j.berg@nhm.uio.no From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Nov 6 12:11:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Nathan C. Martin II) Date: Thu Nov 6 12:11:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Munich show report In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20031106201158.030c97f0@imap.uio.no> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20031106144857.01e04d70@po2.bbn.com> Hans, Thanks for the reminder about the Munich show. I really enjoyed looking your picture gallery from the show. Those of us in the US who were not able to go to Munich would appreciate any comments that you or others who attended might have on what you found to be new and interesting at the Munich show this year. It doesn't have to be a long involved report but any insights would be of interest. My special interest is associations of unusual minerals with fluorite. I remember a few years ago seeing pictures of some Russian specimens of fluorite and apatite. Were any of those in evidence at the show? Nate Martin Lexington, MA, USA At 02:20 PM 11/6/2003, you wrote: >Hello > >There haven't been much talk about the largest mineral show in Europe in >this list, namely the Munich show which had a 40 year jubilee this year. >Here are some pictures (click on the the thumbnails for enlargement): > >http://folk.uio.no/hansjb/munchen2003/index_munchen.htm > >Regards > >Hans-Jørgen Berg > >Hans-Jørgen Berg >Universitetets Naturhistoriske museer og botanisk hage >Mineralogisk-Geologisk Museum >Universitetet i Oslo >Boks 1172 Blindern, 0318 Oslo >Besøksadresse: Sars' gt. 1 > >Tlf (+47) 22851772 / 92442890 > >Email h.j.berg@nhm.uio.no From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Nov 6 12:11:17 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Nov 6 12:11:17 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Munich show report In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20031106201158.030c97f0@imap.uio.no> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031106102849.02fc6330@mail.aloha.net> Many thanks! I've been hoping someone would post a report, and your=20 pictures are excellent! Aloha, Kitty At 09:20 AM 11/6/2003, you wrote: >Hello > >There haven't been much talk about the largest mineral show in Europe in=20 >this list, namely the Munich show which had a 40 year jubilee this year.=20 >Here are some pictures (click on the the thumbnails for enlargement): > >http://folk.uio.no/hansjb/munchen2003/index_munchen.htm > >Regards > >Hans-J=F8rgen Berg > > > >Hans-J=F8rgen Berg >Universitetets Naturhistoriske museer og botanisk hage >Mineralogisk-Geologisk Museum >Universitetet i Oslo >Boks 1172 Blindern, 0318 Oslo >Bes=F8ksadresse: Sars' gt. 1 > >Tlf (+47) 22851772 / 92442890 > >Email h.j.berg@nhm.uio.no > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 10/16/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 10/16/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Nov 6 17:45:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Thu Nov 6 17:45:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. References: <008101c3a2fa$f469e450$849c77d5@axel> <001301c3a400$72082ec0$25315841@powertech.net> <002f01c3a44c$00544ba0$beaa77d5@axel> Message-ID: <004b01c3a4cf$a0c73060$8e305841@powertech.net> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. > > Here in Soutwestern Utah, the pioneers used Selenite (gypsum) for their > > windows. Obtained from a nearby mine. Clear as glass, and it came in big > > sheets of just about the right thickness! > > > > Just my 2 cents! Margaret > > Smart! The 50 ft crystals recently discovered in Spain are large enough to > be used as windows in a gothic cathedral. > Gyspum is reasonably soluble in water though. So don't use too hot water to > clean those windows! You might suddenly end up waving your sponge at the > scenery ... On the other hand... finding out something like that is a kind > of pioneering too, isn't it? > > Axel True! And also, it scratches quite readily. But still, it served them well. We have quite a lot of gypsum -- both alabaster and selenite -- around here. They unwisely built a reservoir in this gypsiferous formation, and about 15 years ago they found out the hard way about the solubility problem, too; a cofferdam on a side stream went out and a huge flood roared down the river and flooded some homes in the fanciest suburb of St. George. Happy New Years Day! It also tore out a bridge on the highway and a lot of little towns, plus Zion National Park, suddenly found that they were many miles further away from St. George (the only town of any size, for shopping etc., for quite a few miles around)! (And would you believe, they just went ahead and rebuilt the dam, in the same spot, despite storms of protest from everyone. (St. George had just completed a million-dollar water purification plant built to remove the gypsum from the water and make it fit for human consumption, and were not just about to "waste" it!). Margaret _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Nov 6 18:52:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Nov 6 18:52:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. In-Reply-To: <008101c3a2fa$f469e450$849c77d5@axel> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031106165905.03f2e840@mail.aloha.net> At 07:42 AM 11/4/2003, you wrote: >Hmmm, Kitty, did you know that the oldest abbeys over here had no glass to >put in their church windows. To keep out the rain and let in the light, the >monks used polished plates of alabaster (anhydrite). When I traveled one summer in Europe (in 1964) I was at some famous cathedral where a guide pointed out windows of alabaster. Typical of me that I would remember vividly the lovely amber glow those windows gave to the interior, and the graceful natural curving patterns in the translucent stone, but not remember exactly which church it was, which city, or even be sure which country! Possibly Italy---San Marco in Venice? I have slides I took with a heavy old Leica and I would have notations in a notebook...if I could find it! Aloha, Kitty --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 10/16/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Nov 6 19:05:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Nov 6 19:05:02 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20031106165905.03f2e840@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: St Paul's Monestary in Rome? Bryan "Si vis pacem para bellum" > > > At 07:42 AM 11/4/2003, you wrote: > >Hmmm, Kitty, did you know that the oldest abbeys over here had > no glass to > >put in their church windows. To keep out the rain and let in the > light, the > >monks used polished plates of alabaster (anhydrite). > > When I traveled one summer in Europe (in 1964) I was at some famous > cathedral where a guide pointed out windows of alabaster. Typical of me > that I would remember vividly the lovely amber glow those windows gave to > the interior, and the graceful natural curving patterns in the > translucent > stone, but not remember exactly which church it was, which city, > or even be > sure which country! Possibly Italy---San Marco in Venice? I > have slides I > took with a heavy old Leica and I would have notations in a > notebook...if I > could find it! > > Aloha, Kitty > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 10/16/2003 > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/plain (text body -- kept) > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Nov 6 20:12:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (John McLaughlin) Date: Thu Nov 6 20:12:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Old Collection for Sale Message-ID: <005901c3a4e5$40f85b30$e75a2741@johniepsh4mfjg> Hi All, =20 This post is to let you know that Gerry Blair, a long time Arizona = mineral collector and rockhound, is beginning to sell his collection of = lapidary materials and mineral specimens. Gerry's collection was = started in the 1950's and will have a good number of superb and rare = pieces. Gerry authored many articles for Lapidary Journal, Rock & Gem = and other magazines during previous years. He is the author of the = current edition of the Falcon Guide Rockhounding Arizona. Gerry has developed a web site featuring items from his collection which = can be found at=20 http://www.investorgems.info/ =20 He will be adding to the site fairly frequently, as he has time to = photograph/scan his pieces. Gerry now has Dryhead agate, Mohave jasper, = Lake Superior agate, Arizona turquoise, Bruneau jasper, Biggs jasper and = some scenic Owyhee picture jaspers among the cabochons displayed on his = site. =20 Disclaimer: I am doing this as a favor to a fellow rockhound and I have = no financial interest in any of Gerry's sales. =20 =20 John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Nov 6 20:29:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Nov 6 20:29:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20031106165905.03f2e840@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031106181538.02ab1320@mail.aloha.net> At 05:04 PM 11/6/2003, you wrote: >St Paul's Monestary in Rome? >Bryan I'm pretty sure it was Italy, and I was in Rome, Venice, Florence and Turin. So if St Paul's in Rome has alabaster windows, that could be it. I don't recall it being a monastery. I'm pretty sure I remember it appearing to me to be a cathedral with the cruciform floor plan, and a loft at the rear where a small choir could sing in response to a main choir at the front. (I should be able to remember the appropriate terms, like transept, apse, nave, but I don't now.) The alabaster windows were high on the sides of the main aisles. There may have been stained glass windows in addition. Aloha, Kitty > When I traveled one summer in Europe (in 1964) I was at some famous > > cathedral where a guide pointed out windows of alabaster. Typical of me > > that I would remember vividly the lovely amber glow those windows gave to > > the interior, and the graceful natural curving patterns in the translucent > > stone, but not remember exactly which church it was, which city, > > or even be sure which country! Possibly Italy---San Marco in Venice? I > > have slides I took with a heavy old Leica and I would have notations in a > > notebook...if I could find it! > > > > Aloha, Kitty --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 10/16/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Nov 7 06:24:04 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Nov 7 06:24:04 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. References: <008101c3a2fa$f469e450$849c77d5@axel> <001301c3a400$72082ec0$25315841@powertech.net> <002f01c3a44c$00544ba0$beaa77d5@axel> <004b01c3a4cf$a0c73060$8e305841@powertech.net> Message-ID: <001c01c3a536$85e6fa70$9d9c77d5@axel> >And would you believe, they just went ahead and > rebuilt the dam, in the same spot, despite storms of protest from everyone. > (St. George had just completed a million-dollar water purification plant > built to remove the gypsum from the water and make it fit for human > consumption, and were not just about to "waste" it!). > > Margaret Yes, when money talks, common sense walks.... ;-)))))))))))))) Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margaret Malm" To: Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 2:36 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. > > > > > Here in Soutwestern Utah, the pioneers used Selenite (gypsum) for their > > > windows. Obtained from a nearby mine. Clear as glass, and it came in > big > > > sheets of just about the right thickness! > > > > > > Just my 2 cents! Margaret > > > > Smart! The 50 ft crystals recently discovered in Spain are large enough to > > be used as windows in a gothic cathedral. > > Gyspum is reasonably soluble in water though. So don't use too hot water > to > > clean those windows! You might suddenly end up waving your sponge at the > > scenery ... On the other hand... finding out something like that is a kind > > of pioneering too, isn't it? > > > > Axel > > True! And also, it scratches quite readily. But still, it served them well. > We have quite a lot of gypsum -- both alabaster and selenite -- around here. > They unwisely built a reservoir in this gypsiferous formation, and about 15 > years ago they found out the hard way about the solubility problem, too; a > cofferdam on a side stream went out and a huge flood roared down the river > and flooded some homes in the fanciest suburb of St. George. Happy New Years > Day! It also tore out a bridge on the highway and a lot of little towns, > plus Zion National Park, suddenly found that they were many miles further > away from St. George (the only town of any size, for shopping etc., for > quite a few miles around)! (And would you believe, they just went ahead and > rebuilt the dam, in the same spot, despite storms of protest from everyone. > (St. George had just completed a million-dollar water purification plant > built to remove the gypsum from the water and make it fit for human > consumption, and were not just about to "waste" it!). > > Margaret > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Nov 7 07:02:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Lawrence Rush) Date: Fri Nov 7 07:02:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. References: <5.1.0.14.0.20031106165905.03f2e840@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <001c01c3a540$071962a0$46ad5a0c@fekib> ----- Original Message ----- From: Kitty & Bill Heacox To: Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 10:10 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. > At 07:42 AM 11/4/2003, you wrote: > >Hmmm, Kitty, did you know that the oldest abbeys over here had no glass to > >put in their church windows. To keep out the rain and let in the light, the > >monks used polished plates of alabaster (anhydrite). > > When I traveled one summer in Europe (in 1964) I was at some famous > cathedral where a guide pointed out windows of alabaster. Typical of me > that I would remember vividly the lovely amber glow those windows gave to > the interior, and the graceful natural curving patterns in the translucent > stone, but not remember exactly which church it was, which city, or even be > sure which country! Possibly Italy---San Marco in Venice? I have slides I > took with a heavy old Leica and I would have notations in a notebook...if I > could find it! > > Aloha, Kitty > =============================================== Even today, architects are using stone as windows! The rare book library at Yale University, in New Haven, Ct has no glass in the stack sections, instead using very large slabs of mottled marble which allows a pleasant, soft muted light through. The purpose is to prevent natural sunlight from deteriorating the rare manuscripts stored there, but the effect is wonderful! Larry Rush From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Nov 7 08:44:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Nov 7 08:44:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. References: <5.1.0.14.0.20031106165905.03f2e840@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <001701c3a54e$3d7de9c0$9d9c77d5@axel> Hi Kitty & Brian, it seems like the use of Alabaster was commonplace in those days. This is the abbey I was talking about: http://www.villers.be/ If there are still any monks left I hope they have long underpants because that ruin looks drafty (draughty if you're from the UK ;-) Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 4:10 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. At 07:42 AM 11/4/2003, you wrote: >Hmmm, Kitty, did you know that the oldest abbeys over here had no glass to >put in their church windows. To keep out the rain and let in the light, the >monks used polished plates of alabaster (anhydrite). When I traveled one summer in Europe (in 1964) I was at some famous cathedral where a guide pointed out windows of alabaster. Typical of me that I would remember vividly the lovely amber glow those windows gave to the interior, and the graceful natural curving patterns in the translucent stone, but not remember exactly which church it was, which city, or even be sure which country! Possibly Italy---San Marco in Venice? I have slides I took with a heavy old Leica and I would have notations in a notebook...if I could find it! Aloha, Kitty --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 10/16/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Nov 7 14:00:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Jokela) Date: Fri Nov 7 14:00:02 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] (advert) What's New at Element 51 References: Message-ID: <001a01c3a57b$85cbeb00$2f05efd1@oemcomputer> The following specimens have been added to the website in the last forty = days or so, follow the links to check them out, simply email me, = tjokela@execulink.com, to order. First come, first served! For new customers, complete info on shipping costs, how to order, = payment options, etc., is available here: = http://www.element51.com/contact.htm. Schlossmacherite, Chile, http://www.element51.com/schlossmacherite.htm Gold with atacamite, boleite, Chile, = http://www.element51.com/gold.CHILE.htm Calcite xls covered with drusy quartz, India, = http://www.element51.com/calcite.india.htm Stellerite with heulandite, India, = http://www.element51.com/stellerite.htm Heulandite with julgoldite, India, http://www.element51.com/heu.julg.htm Epistilbite, India, http://www.element51.com/epistilbite.htm Quartz stalactites, India, http://www.element51.com/stalactites.htm Kidwellite from Arkansas, http://www.element51.com/kidwellite.A.htm and = http://www.element51.com/kidwellite.B.htm Milarite on orthoclase, Mexico, http://www.element51.com/milarite.htm Amethyst from Utah, http://www.element51.com/amethyst.utah.htm Quartz, Japan Law Twins, from Peru, = http://www.element51.com/quartz.japtwins.htm Siderite w childrenite, augelite, Yukon Territory, = http://www.element51.com/siderite.htm Gypsum twin, bizarre, from Australia, = http://www.element51.com/gypsum.htm Wulfenite, Mexico, http://www.element51.com/wulfenite.bunny.htm Bertrandite, Brazil, http://www.element51.com/bertrandite.htm Zaratite, Australia, http://www.element51.com/zaratite.htm Dioptase, Kazakhstan, http://www.element51.com/dioptase.htm Calcite, barite-coated, on fluorite, Illinois, = http://www.element51.com/calBAR.htm Fluorapatite, Maine, http://www.element51.com/fluorapatite.bennett.htm Fluorite, Nova Scotia, http://www.element51.com/fluorite.ns.htm Molybdenite, Quebec, http://www.element51.com/molybdenite.htm Arsenic w pyrargyrite, Sweden, - new find - = http://www.element51.com/arsenic.htm Sampleite, Chile, http://www.element51.com/sampleite.htm Hundreds of new micromounts, scroll down, = http://www.element51.com/update.june21.htm Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr, tjokela@execulink.com=20 Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The mineralogy of Ontario, Canada: http://www.ontariominerals.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Nov 8 05:38:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Italian Minerals) Date: Sat Nov 8 05:38:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] HENMILITE, new mineral from Japan ! Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20031108143046.00b3a020@popmail.libero.it> Hi there, as you probably know a new borate has been found in Japan few months ago and its name is HENMILITE. It shows as nice millimetric deep blue crystals on white matrix and it is perfectly stable at room conditions ! The crystals are romboedric and well shaped. If interested you can see some of this rare and showy unusual new mineral at: http://www.italianminerals.com/ASIA/HENMILITE.htm Best regards, Alessandro (italianminerals.com) ****************** You receive this email since you have been in touch via email with us at least once. In case you do not want to receive our unfrequent mailing anymore just drop us a note. ****************** ============================== Quality minerals from Italy and worldwide Italian Minerals http://www.italianminerals.com ============================== --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Nov 8 08:11:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Sat Nov 8 08:11:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Munich show report In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20031106201158.030c97f0@imap.uio.no> Message-ID: <000001c3a613$d8c9f750$2b01a8c0@Downstairs> Also John of Triniy Minerals www.trinityminerals.com does excellent reports from the show. To go directly www.trinityminerals.com/ms2003 And click on reports Tommy Armstrong > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Hans-Jørgen Berg > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 2:20 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] The Munich show report > > > Hello > > There haven't been much talk about the largest mineral show > in Europe in > this list, namely the Munich show which had a 40 year jubilee > this year. > Here are some pictures (click on the the thumbnails for enlargement): > http://folk.uio.no/hansjb/munchen2003/index_munchen.htm Regards Hans-Jørgen Berg Hans-Jørgen Berg Universitetets Naturhistoriske museer og botanisk hage Mineralogisk-Geologisk Museum Universitetet i Oslo Boks 1172 Blindern, 0318 Oslo Besøksadresse: Sars' gt. 1 Tlf (+47) 22851772 / 92442890 Email h.j.berg@nhm.uio.no _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Nov 8 20:15:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (John McLaughlin) Date: Sat Nov 8 20:15:02 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Zealand Collecting References: <001c01c394a8$22044e70$c3ff4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> Message-ID: <005f01c3a677$ee1f3ed0$e75a2741@johniepsh4mfjg> Hi Folks, My wife and I are leaving for a month in New Zealand on Nov. 15th and we hope to do a bit of rockhounding while there. We would appreciate any suggestions regarding fun locations. We will be on the North Island for about a week and then spend three weeks on the South Island (including four days to walk the Milford Track). Thanks, John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 9 11:38:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sun Nov 9 11:38:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Zealand Collecting References: <001c01c394a8$22044e70$c3ff4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> <005f01c3a677$ee1f3ed0$e75a2741@johniepsh4mfjg> Message-ID: <002301c3a6f7$c1227660$0a325841@powertech.net> > Hi Folks, > > My wife and I are leaving for a month in New Zealand on Nov. 15th and we > hope to do a bit of rockhounding while there. We would appreciate any > suggestions regarding fun locations. We will be on the North Island for > about a week and then spend three weeks on the South Island (including four > days to walk the Milford Track). >John McLaughlin Hi, John - When I was there (we spent all our time on the South Island), about the only interesting things I found were Paua shells (on Pacific Coast side), a bit of gold panned from the Shotover River,;and jade (and near-jade) over on the Indian Ocean side, on or near the beaches where streams come down out of the mountains. (The mines are way up on the mountain and accessible mostly only by helicopter.) I envy you your opportunity to do the Milford Track! margaret > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 9 13:48:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Nov 9 13:48:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Zealand Collecting In-Reply-To: <005f01c3a677$ee1f3ed0$e75a2741@johniepsh4mfjg> References: <001c01c394a8$22044e70$c3ff4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031109102756.02fedec0@mail.aloha.net> Hi John, The most interesting collecting spot Bill and I found was Kiritehere Beach on the west side of North Island, just a short drive from Waitomo Caves (also known as Glow Worm Caves), a bit south of the city of Hamilton. The caves are great too (you float out in a boat in the middle of an underground lake and look up to see glow worms on the ceiling above looking like millions of stars), but not for collecting. At Krirtehere beach you will find black sand that contains iron, so when you put some in a bottle and move a magnet along the outside, the sand follows the magnet. At the south end of the beach you'll find greywacke shale shards and plates filled with shells (we haven't identified the shell species nor the date; must do that someday!). Rotorua is fascinating, especially if you've never been to Yellowstone. There's a geyser that goes off when a park guide pours laundry soap into its mouth. On the Coromandel Peninsula you can find carnelian bits in the beach gravel in several places. I believe we found some at beaches right in the town of Coromandel. On the other (east) side of the peninsula is a place of geological interest---and fun---(but not much to collect) called Hot Water Beach or Hot Sand Beach, where geothermal water comes up through the sand; people carve out spa pools in the sand and go jump in the ocean when they get too hot. There are mines and such on the peninsula, so that area might be a good place to explore. If I were you I would go to the town of Ngatea just east of the base of the Coromandel Peninsula to Wilderness Gems, a huge warehouse full of a wide variety of specimens, including many from New Zealand, and a nice display of fluorescent pieces. There is a fellow there who will talk your ear off, and you can probably get tips on places to fossick. Just go to the counter and ask for the guy who knows all about minerals. If you're interested in buying in addition to collecting, a good person to see is Dave Blakemore in Wanganui. His address and phone number are on his website: [ http://www.roughcountryminerals.com/ ]. He and his wife are very friendly and his prices are quite reasonable. He actually gave us (that is, free) several nice pieces from New Zealand because he said people in New Zealand don't want to buy local stuff. South Island is gorgeous, but we were so busy either sightseeing or working, that we didn't have time to do any collecting. We strongly recommend stopping at visitor centers and asking about fossicking, and staying at B&B's. You'll get to meet people, and the Kiwi's are very friendly and helpful. They are a trifle more reserved than Aussies, but still wonderful people. Public transportation is excellent---trains and busses will take you almost anywhere, and they are clean and run on time. Very special towns in South Island are Christchurch (don't miss the Antarctic Center at the airport), and Dunedin. We lived in NZ for a year six years ago and returned for 2 weeks last summer. If you have other questions, contact me off list. Aloha, Kitty At 06:14 PM 11/8/2003, you wrote: >Hi Folks, > >My wife and I are leaving for a month in New Zealand on Nov. 15th and we >hope to do a bit of rockhounding while there. We would appreciate any >suggestions regarding fun locations. We will be on the North Island for >about a week and then spend three weeks on the South Island (including four >days to walk the Milford Track). > >Thanks, > >John McLaughlin >Glendale, Arizona > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 10/16/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 10/16/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 9 15:15:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Frederick Olmstead) Date: Sun Nov 9 15:15:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Zealand Collecting References: <001c01c394a8$22044e70$c3ff4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> <005f01c3a677$ee1f3ed0$e75a2741@johniepsh4mfjg> Message-ID: <3FAECC58.19C0@rcn.com> I suggest that you can contact clubs in the north and south islands that would have information about collecting. Lapidary Journal has information about clubs. Birdling's Flat ('shingle' beach near Akarora) is a fun place to collect. Stop at the small country gas station / restaurant near the area - sorry I cannot at present remember the mame - very friendly owner - he had some ash from the active volcano in the north island that I collect - along with my sands. I'll try to find more info for you. Jocelyn Thornton is a person who might be on the internet as a contact. Whe wrote a great book about NZ and some collecting. That title is upstairs and I am downstairs at the moment. The university in Christchurch has some good books - and the university in Dunedin has some good books. GeorgiaO ___..--..__..--..__ John McLaughlin wrote: Hi Folks, My wife and I are leaving for a month in New Zealand on Nov. 15th and we hope to do a bit of rockhounding while there. We would appreciate any suggestions regarding fun locations. We will be on the North Island for about a week and then spend three weeks on the South Island (including four days to walk the Milford Track). Thanks, John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 9 20:44:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Dave Guin) Date: Sun Nov 9 20:44:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Zealand Collecting In-Reply-To: <002301c3a6f7$c1227660$0a325841@powertech.net> References: <001c01c394a8$22044e70$c3ff4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> <005f01c3a677$ee1f3ed0$e75a2741@johniepsh4mfjg> <002301c3a6f7$c1227660$0a325841@powertech.net> Message-ID: <3FAF1785.3060607@earthlink.net> Hi Folks, >>My wife and I are leaving for a month in New Zealand on Nov. 15th and we >>hope to do a bit of rockhounding while there. We would appreciate any >>suggestions regarding fun locations. We will be on the North Island for >>about a week and then spend three weeks on the South Island (including >> >> >four > > >>days to walk the Milford Track). >> >> Hey John, Have you contacted Gus? ( magnetstogo@yahoo.com ) I'm not sure if he is on this forum or not. Peace, dave --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 9 22:35:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Sun Nov 9 22:35:02 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Does Anyone Else Like to Collect Mineral Pictures on the Web? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001101c3a755$ba90b3d0$2b01a8c0@Downstairs> Dear Pete, I know it has been awhile and sorry did not get back with you, but with Don H we have developed a mineral database for collectors and museums. Would you be interested in beta testing it? It requires a FULL installation either Access 200,2002,or 2003 (have not checked out on 2003).The tables have been constructed and much of the input forms have been completed. Excel would also be nice if you want to export reports to it. I am waiting on input from Don and a couple of others as to what kind of reports people may want to see. The source code is accessible and I am just trusting mineral people to respect the copyright. Tommy Armstrong N 35* 23' 52'' W 78* 49' 9'' > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Pete Neri > Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 1:41 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Does Anyone Else Like to Collect > Mineral Pictures on the Web? > > > Tommy, > > I'd like to volunteer my services as a beta tester. I write > manuals about software and will be happy to do a "user guide" > for you if you like. > > Pete Neri > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Tommy > Armstrong > Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 10:24 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Does Anyone Else Like to Collect > Mineral Pictures on the Web? > > > Although its not quite a full blown addiction, many times > when surfing the web, I see a rock that is really grabs my > fancy. Most of course are out of my price range, but I still > have this compulsion to save the picture. Well they end up > getting saved all over the place-each time I think that my > newest method of filing is better than the last. Well I > decided to write a little database program so that I could > control them. I'm needing a couple of beta testers to put it > through the wringer and hopefully come up with some other > functionalities they would like to have. > > If you have the same compulsion as I, what would you like to > see in such an application, and how much time should it take > to input a picture. Downloading copyrighted pictures for > personal use is completely lawful, but to use them for > anything else would of course need permission. > > Current functions: > Search by mineral,nation, state, county, mine, or town. > Map site with interactive web mapping sites including topo's > for USA Make a copy and name it with useful file names > quickly and consistantly Save photographer and owner info > with picture Save in depth description about specimen > > > > > Tommy Armstrong > N 35* 23' 52'' W 78* 49' 9'' > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rock> hounds > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 9 22:46:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Sun Nov 9 22:46:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Does Anyone Else Like to Collect Mineral Pictures on the Web? In-Reply-To: <001101c3a755$ba90b3d0$2b01a8c0@Downstairs> Message-ID: <001301c3a757$5e7fe820$2b01a8c0@Downstairs> Sorry--Meant to be personal note--but since its public are there any serious mineral collectors that would like to give program a spin? I would want serious feedback, as Don and I really want this to be a useful program and easy to use program. Have to have full install of Access 2000 or 2002. Tommy Armstrong "Creativity is the marvelous capacity to grasp distinct realities and draw a spark from their juxtaposition." Max Ernst From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Nov 10 01:30:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (armando afonso) Date: Mon Nov 10 01:30:02 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Does Anyone Else Like to Collect Mineral Pictures on the Web? References: <001301c3a757$5e7fe820$2b01a8c0@Downstairs> Message-ID: <000d01c3a76d$1ef432e0$97e1fea9@1> OK, Send me the program, I would like to have a look. AA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tommy Armstrong" To: Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 6:53 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Does Anyone Else Like to Collect Mineral Pictures on the Web? > Sorry--Meant to be personal note--but since its public are there any serious > mineral collectors that would like to give program a spin? I would want > serious feedback, as Don and I really want this to be a useful program and > easy to use program. Have to have full install of Access 2000 or 2002. > > Tommy Armstrong > > "Creativity is the marvelous capacity to grasp distinct realities and draw a > spark from their juxtaposition." > Max Ernst > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Nov 10 07:29:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon Nov 10 07:29:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ad - Website Update - New Galleries Of Missouri Minerals For Show And Tell Message-ID: <72.34369c9d.2ce108a8@aol.com> Hi! I wanted to let everyone know that I have just performed a major update to the website. There are now three new galleries of items added to the site. In addition to these galleries, there are now three Reverse Auction galleries up and going, with one of the galleries at 70% discount today! Be sure to check these out - there are some great specimens in these galleries going at bargain prices! In addition to all of the great new material added to the site for sale, I have added three new galleries of items strictly for "show and tell", featuring great specimens from Missouri. I always welcome any constructive comments and feedback concerning the lay-out of the website, galleries, etc. Please do not be shy! Should you have any questions/comments please let me know. I hope that you enjoy viewing the new material! Dan Weinrich P.O. Box 425 Grover, MO 63040 314-341-1811 http://www.danweinrich.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 11 11:43:08 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Nov 11 11:43:08 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Zealand Collecting In-Reply-To: <3FAECC58.19C0@rcn.com> References: <001c01c394a8$22044e70$c3ff4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> <005f01c3a677$ee1f3ed0$e75a2741@johniepsh4mfjg> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031111093839.0318aec0@mail.aloha.net> At 01:23 PM 11/9/2003, you wrote: >......Jocelyn Thornton is a person who might be on the internet as >a contact. Whe wrote a great book about NZ and some collecting. >That title is upstairs and I am downstairs at the moment. >The university in Christchurch has some good books - and the >university in Dunedin has some good books. > >GeorgiaO >___..--..__..--..__ The book is The Reed Field Guide to New Zealand Geology by Jocelyn Thornton. First published in 1985 as "Field Guide to New Zealand Geology, " "The Reed" was added when it was republished (by Reed Press) in 1995. There is another author who writes from a much more technical viewpoint: Graeme R. Stevens. His titles are: "Rugged Landscape, the Geology of Central New Zealand, " "New Zealand Adrift," "Lands in Collision," and "Prehistoric New Zealand." These are published by DSIR Publishing (Department of Scientific & Industrial Research) in Wellington, NZ. Aloha, Kitty --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 10/16/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 11 12:41:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Tue Nov 11 12:41:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Advise on Colorado & Arizona Message-ID: <1d2.1430b7aa.2ce2a324@aol.com> Hello Everyone Next week I am going on a short trip to Denver and then to Phoenix, Tucson and Benson AZ. Any dealers and or rock shops and possibly individual rockhounds etc.....who might be worthwhile calling and visiting. I am looking for good agates and jaspers and other lapidary types of materials. Thank you for any advise and phone numbers etc.. Appreciatively, RnL --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 12 02:14:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (=?iso-8859-1?B?bWFnbmV0?=) Date: Wed Nov 12 02:14:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] =?iso-8859-1?B?UmU6IFtSb2NraG91bmRzXSBOZXcgWmVhbGFuZCBDb2xsZWN0aW5n?= Message-ID: <20031112101424.30622.qmail@webmachine101.com> WW91IGNhbiBjb250YWN0IEpvY2VseW4gVGhvcm50b24gYXQgc29kYWxpdGVAcGFyYWRpc2UubmV0 Lm56DQoNClJlZ2FyZHMNClN0ZXZlDQoK --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 12 18:36:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (John & Liz) Date: Wed Nov 12 18:36:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mails Message-ID: <3FA9CC1A.7040801@mn.rr.com> Hi Gang, I don't get any - really, nada - wrongly rejected e-mails with the combination of Netscape 7.0 plus running SpamAssassin proxy. The SA proxy uses an online update checking system, very smart, very slight delay in downloads, not noticable and dead accurate. And SA is free: http://spamassassin.org, although the company (Stata Labs) makes more stuff you can buy like Bloomba, their general email system. I just use SAProxy (the software for Windows XP, etc.). It takes a little configuring for Netscape, but it's easy and the instructions are clear. -- John John K. Nash, Ph.D. Licensed Psychologist Behavioral Medicine Associates, Inc. Beautiful Minerals --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 12 18:36:55 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Michael Schmidt) Date: Wed Nov 12 18:36:55 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] email address required Message-ID: <263601c3a725$d9fe5c20$bdcd94d1@remains> Hi If Gene Harstein is on this list, could he please email me privately = please? thanks Michael --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 12 18:36:59 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Rik Hill) Date: Wed Nov 12 18:36:59 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: [rocksandfossils] Advise on Colorado & Arizona In-Reply-To: <1d2.1430b7aa.2ce2a324@aol.com> References: <1d2.1430b7aa.2ce2a324@aol.com> Message-ID: <200311111358.15441.rhill@lpl.arizona.edu> In tucson there's the Arizona-Sonora Desert museum (http://www.desertmuseum.org/) Very close to that is Tucson Mineral & Gem world (http://www.tucsonmineral.com/) run by Pete Ratkevich, a great guy I've known for about 20 years (and both his sons). Most of the agates and jaspers I've ever found here have been in N. Az. For more local info see the bottom of my page at: http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~rhill/azastro.html -Rik Tucson, Az On Tuesday 11 November 2003 13:40, Rocknlight@aol.com wrote: > Hello Everyone > > Next week I am going on a short trip to Denver and then to Phoenix, > Tucson and Benson AZ. > > Any dealers and or rock shops and possibly individual rockhounds > etc.....who might be worthwhile calling and visiting. > > I am looking for good agates and jaspers and other lapidary types > of materials. > > Thank you for any advise and phone numbers etc.. > > Appreciatively, > > RnL > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 12 18:37:05 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Wed Nov 12 18:37:05 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: [LapidaryList] Advise on Colorado & Arizona In-Reply-To: <1d2.1430b7aa.2ce2a324@aol.com> References: <1d2.1430b7aa.2ce2a324@aol.com> Message-ID: <1891.137.80.60.254.1068662196.squirrel@www.outb.com> When your in Benson, head towards Sierra Vista on State Route 92 heading south. When you reach the intersection at Mustang Corners head west and go up about a mile or two to The Blue Opal. You won't regret it. The owner, Mike, has some beautiful Blue Opal that he mines. You can reach him at mike@theblueopal.com And don't forget to see Kartchners Caverns. They just opened up the new BiG Room. Kelly Mason > Hello Everyone > > Next week I am going on a short trip to Denver and then to Phoenix, > Tucson and Benson AZ. > > Any dealers and or rock shops and possibly individual rockhounds > etc.....who might be worthwhile calling and visiting. > > I am looking for good agates and jaspers and other lapidary types of > materials. > > Thank you for any advise and phone numbers etc.. > > Appreciatively, > > RnL > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark > Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & > Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 > http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/lBTolB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > The user command addresses for the Lapiday List are: > Subscribe: LapidaryList-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > Post message: LapidaryList@yahoogroups.com > Unsubscribe: LapidaryList-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 12 19:29:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (John Teague) Date: Wed Nov 12 19:29:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Melbourne, FL show this weekend Message-ID: <3FB2FA2C.ED247084@icx.net> Greetings! I would like to remind members of the list about the Canaveral Mineral and Gems Society's 2003 Parade of Gems this weekend in Melbourne, FL. My booth is hard to miss as I have UT orange table coverings! And for you faceters ... I will have a used Ultra Tech with 8-8" laps for sale. I'm trying to help out with the closing of an estate. If you're interested, stop by and see the machine. It seems to be in very good shape. The owner, due to health problems, had not used the machine in a good while. Dates: Saturday and Sunday, November 15 & 16, 2003 Hours: Saturday -10:00 am - 5:00 pm Sunday - 10:00 am - 5:00 pm Location: Melbourne Auditorium 625 East Hibiscus Blvd Melbourne, FL (5 block north of US 192; 2 blocks west of US1) Hope to see you there! Stop by and say "HI!" and introduce yourself. Maybe you'll even see something I have that you can't live without! John Teague Volunteer Gems Knoxville, Tennessee http://www.VolunteerGems.com From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Nov 15 17:49:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Sat Nov 15 17:49:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Benson AZ is near Bisbee Message-ID: <20031116014842.77066.qmail@web41009.mail.yahoo.com> Hi: If you're going to be in Benson Arizona, you will be less than an hour North of Bisbee, the scene of one of the most prolific copper mineralizations ever mined. There is an open pit mine called the Lavender Pit that's 1/3 mile across and 1/2 a mile deep, with a spiral road around the hole. You can even go into the Copper Queen deep mine and see what a stope looks like after a bunch of copper minerals is mined out. There must be a rock shop or art botique in Bisbee that you would enjoy. Tombstone is just north of Bisbee, between Benson and Bisbee, there's abandoned mines there that daring collectors sometimes enter, and the O K Corral is still there, too. So that's another recommendation for a day trip in So Arizona. It doesn't sound like you'll have time to visit Meteor Crater, Petrified Forest the Painted Desert or Grand Canyon, so there are several rocky trips left for you in Arizona, have fun! JR in WV __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 16 08:49:09 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sun Nov 16 08:49:09 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polishing large rocks Message-ID: <133.27bf0746.2ce5ca75@aol.com> Is it possible to polish a large 8" oval river rock? What tumbler can handle this size rock? John --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 16 09:12:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Paul Hewitt) Date: Sun Nov 16 09:12:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polishing large rocks References: <133.27bf0746.2ce5ca75@aol.com> Message-ID: <002201c3ac64$ad8a3990$6501a8c0@ibmlaptop> Lortone makes a 40 lb tumbler that may be able to handle that. http://www.lortone.com/commtumb.html ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 1:04 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Polishing large rocks > Is it possible to polish a large 8" oval river rock? What tumbler can handle > this size rock? > > John > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 16 09:18:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Nov 16 09:18:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polishing large rocks References: <133.27bf0746.2ce5ca75@aol.com> Message-ID: <3FB7B11D.1DF5@Tomaszewski.net> S8312560@aol.com wrote: > > Is it possible to polish a large 8" oval river rock? What tumbler can handle > this size rock? > > John My homemade equipment page has links (about half way down the page) to two large tumbler contruction projects that could easily handle stones of that size. http://Tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Minerals/Homemade.shtml Kreigh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 16 09:28:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sun Nov 16 09:28:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ad: books and fossil wood specimens Message-ID: <1d8.1480d521.2ce90d91@aol.com> Just in time for the holidays, I have books that will make great presents fo= r=20 the rock and mineral enthusiast in your family, and I have a list of top=20 quality petrified wood specimens. Contact me off list for a copy of the foss= il=20 wood list and any other additional information you need. I have just six cop= ies=20 of Secrets of Petrified Plants, five copies of Araucaria, and seven Quartz=20 books left. Petrified Wood: The World of Fossilized Wood, Cones, Ferns, and Cycads, by=20 Frank J. Daniels. Hard cover, large format, 176 pages. 430 full color=20 photographs. $75 plus $3 S/H =20 =20 Araucaria, by Ulrich Dernbach. Large format, 160 pages, each book is in both= =20 German and English, beautiful photography. Hard cover. Large format. Publish= ed=20 in Germany in 1992. If you like the wood and cones from Patagonia you will=20 like this book. $65 plus $4 S/H =20 =20 NEW RELEASE: Secrets of Petrified Plants, by Ulrich Dernbach , Ruth Stockey= ,=20 William Tidwell, Walt Wright, and others. It is a large format, hard cover=20 book of 232 pages in full color with many photographs of fossil wood from=20 worldwide locations. Chapters include discussions of ferns, Psaronius, Osmun= da,=20 Chinle woods, Tempskya, cones, conifers, cycads, Hermanophyton, and many oth= er=20 woods. I recommend this book to all petrified wood enthusiasts. Hard Cover;=20= Large=20 format In English. Published in 2002 in Germany. $75 plus $4 S/H (no furthe= r=20 discounts) =20 NEW RELEASE: Quartz: decoding messages from inside the earth. Hot off the=20 presses. I was able to get several extra copies of this first edition, limit= ed=20 edition (only 1,000 hard cover copies printed) lovely and interesting new bo= ok.=20 Written by Harold Dibble, copyrighted in 2002, and just printed in January.=20 Here is how it reads on the inside flap of the dust jacket: =E2=80=9CThis bo= ok breaks=20 new ground in several ways. The internal structure of quartz crystals are=20 covered as well as its external forms. It describes many forms of quartz cry= stals=20 that have not been covered in previous books. The CD, which is included, is=20= an=20 educational tool beyond anything that has been used before. It clearly=20 illustrates the internal atomic arrangements and growth mechanisms in a mann= er that=20 the two-dimensional pages of a book cannot. The specimens used in the book w= ere=20 not selected merely for their beauty, but for their unique qualities.=E2=80= =9D The=20 178 photographs are very well done by such topnotch photographers as Jeff Sc= ovil=20 and Rainer Bode. The format is 8 =C2=BD by 11 with 100 pages plus the Java A= pplet=20 CD. List price is $55. My price is $47.50 plus $3 S/H.(no further discounts.= ) Frank J. Daniels, publisher Western Colorado Publishing Company 2024 Freedom Court Grand Junction, CO 81503-9522 (970) 242-5255 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 16 13:42:06 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Dawn M. Fredricks) Date: Sun Nov 16 13:42:06 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Benson AZ is near Bisbee Message-ID: I highly recommend if in Bisbee, go on the Copper Queen mine tour. I don't recall how much it is, but I was sad when our time was up! They put a rain coat on you, battery pack around the waist, hard hat miners lamp and you jump on the little train and they take you in the mine. If I remember correctly, they have restored under 1 mile and when we were there a year and a half ago, they someday hoped to be able to restore the full loop. There are some great mineral pockets they have purposely left exposed with malachite and azurite. They show the little tunnels that the donkeys used to live in, how they used TNT to clear new areas. Our guides name was Jose, he used to work in the mine. The Lavendar pit is really incredible to stand and look at. As you drive thru Bisbee, get off the main road, it really is a very cute little town. You'll notice all the mine portals as you drive thru the area. It's a good thing I'm to scared to go into them! If you get to Clifton, you must go to the Morenci mine. There are no tours, but it is really a sight to see. Here's a link with a few photos http://www.hightsite.com/clifton.html. Clifton is below the mine and there is a town up at the mine. As you drive around the area up top of the mine, you will see where there are houses that sit empty because the mine is approaching them, when driving up to the lookout point, you will encounter a stop sign in the middle of the hyw and a guard shack where they will radio to see where the hauler is as they don't have to stop! When you get to the lookout, get out and look way down in the bottom. From the top, it looks like a little tiny very blue lake. Back down in Clifton, we saw much road construction when there. There is a huge Flood gate at one end of town. I never found out for sure, but it seems to me that just in case there were any accidents up at the mine, the town would be safe! We were using the usual Arizona rockhound guide books during our trip. We went mainly for the Tuscon show and were gone for 2 weeks. Only got to wear shorts for 2 days out of the entire trip. We had snow!!! in Green Valley our first morning and rain and wind most of the time! Boy I wish we could go again this year!!! Dawn Fredricks Portland Oregon _________________________________________________________________ MSN Shopping upgraded for the holidays! Snappier product search... http://shopping.msn.com From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 16 20:03:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Nov 16 20:03:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. References: <5.1.0.14.0.20031103180313.029e8650@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <3FB84867.751@Tomaszewski.net> Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > Hi List, > > I didn't hit the mute in time while watching the TV news tonight and caught > an ad for "Judge Judy" where she said to a man (plaintiff? accused? I'm not > sure): "You are dumb as a bucket of rocks." > > I give (volunteer) demonstrations at schools and have often used "dumb as a > rock" as a phrase to introduce the idea to kids' minds that rocks & > minerals really can "do" things, some of which are pretty smart and remarkable. > > So can you give Judge Judy examples of how a "bucket of rocks" might > contain some abilities or qualities that are not so dumb? > > Aloha, Kitty Everything people use is either grown or mined (some processing is assumed). Animals need plants, and plants do their own mining (with some energy help from the sun). Gardening is a form of mining. Mining is key to all human survival and activity. Rockhounding is the collection and study of rocks and minerals (the object/product of mining), how formed, where found, how obtained, and how processed. Rockhounding touches on everything we use or do. So can your 'dumb bucket of rocks' -- it just depends on what rocks you have collected. Aloha, Kreigh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Nov 17 06:08:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Van) Date: Mon Nov 17 06:08:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Benson AZ is near Bisbee References: Message-ID: <001c01c3ad14$19b85d90$c3ff4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> Don't forget if you're on the Right Coast to go to the Sterling Mining Museum in Ogdensburg. Great tours and excellent museum. Van ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn M. Fredricks" To: Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 4:41 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Benson AZ is near Bisbee > I highly recommend if in Bisbee, go on the Copper Queen mine tour. I don't > recall how much it is, but I was sad when our time was up! They put a rain > coat on you, battery pack around the waist, hard hat miners lamp and you > jump on the little train and they take you in the mine. If I remember > correctly, they have restored under 1 mile and when we were there a year and > a half ago, they someday hoped to be able to restore the full loop. There > are some great mineral pockets they have purposely left exposed with > malachite and azurite. They show the little tunnels that the donkeys used > to live in, how they used TNT to clear new areas. Our guides name was Jose, > he used to work in the mine. The Lavendar pit is really incredible to stand > and look at. As you drive thru Bisbee, get off the main road, it really is > a very cute little town. You'll notice all the mine portals as you drive > thru the area. It's a good thing I'm to scared to go into them! > > If you get to Clifton, you must go to the Morenci mine. There are no tours, > but it is really a sight to see. Here's a link with a few photos > http://www.hightsite.com/clifton.html. Clifton is below the mine and there > is a town up at the mine. As you drive around the area up top of the mine, > you will see where there are houses that sit empty because the mine is > approaching them, when driving up to the lookout point, you will encounter a > stop sign in the middle of the hyw and a guard shack where they will radio > to see where the hauler is as they don't have to stop! When you get to the > lookout, get out and look way down in the bottom. From the top, it looks > like a little tiny very blue lake. > > Back down in Clifton, we saw much road construction when there. There is a > huge Flood gate at one end of town. I never found out for sure, but it > seems to me that just in case there were any accidents up at the mine, the > town would be safe! > > We were using the usual Arizona rockhound guide books during our trip. We > went mainly for the Tuscon show and were gone for 2 weeks. Only got to wear > shorts for 2 days out of the entire trip. We had snow!!! in Green Valley > our first morning and rain and wind most of the time! Boy I wish we could > go again this year!!! > > > Dawn Fredricks > Portland Oregon > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Shopping upgraded for the holidays! Snappier product search... > http://shopping.msn.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Nov 17 12:29:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Paul Tambuyser) Date: Mon Nov 17 12:29:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] do we have a link to your site? Message-ID: <000001c3ad49$63ac4d00$9600000a@Bib> Those of you who frequently use the "Mineral Collectors Page" www.minerant.org know that we provide comprehensive lists of links to all kinds of mineralogy related information on the WWW. Lots of collectors and mineral and gem dealers already have a link to their website. If you would also like to be mentioned on our pages, or if the information on your site needs updating, we would very appreciate if you could let us know. If you want to make exchanges, please use the "Virtual Quarry" www.minerant.org/vq.html our free advertisement service. Kind regards, Paul Tambuyser (webmaster) Mineralogy Club of Antwerp, Belgium info@minerant.org www.minerant.org From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 18 19:39:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Nov 18 19:39:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. In-Reply-To: <3FB84867.751@Tomaszewski.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20031103180313.029e8650@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031118162311.02368210@mail.aloha.net> Hi again, List, I was called last night to substitute for a high school science teacher today, so I took along a bunch of rocks and minerals and our UV lamp and a Geiger counter, all packed carefully in a 5 gallon paint bucket! Here are some of the things the kids found out my "bucket of dumb rocks" could do: Magnetite picked up a paper clip. Ulexite transferred an image from its underside to its surface. Autunite set the Geiger counter clicking (just a little). Terlingua calcite fluoresced different colors under LW and SW. Hackmanite showed tenebrescence. Some Franklin willemite phosphoresced for several minutes. Yes, I was careful with my demonstrations, and yes, I showed and told the students more: triboluminescence, thermoluminescence, iridescence, double refraction, a crystal that had "healed" itself, stalactites that grew down and stalagmites that grew up, some minerals that can heal people or keep them healthy, ones that can kill people or make them sick, ones that can create weapons or generate power, or be used in makeup or to comfort babies, and so on. Since I am a fine and performing arts person, not a scientist, I came armed with copies of a list of books for the kids to find in the library, and websites and topics to search on the computer, so if a kid asked a question I felt I couldn't handle, I'd point to the list. And amazingly enough, not one student asked about "metaphysical" powers! (That's almost as amazing as my-husband-the-astronomer not having a single college student this fall ask about astrology!) The classes were small enough that each student had a chance for a good look at everything, and to examine some specimens closely. And at morning recess and lunch, kids came by from other classes asking if they could also see the "smart rocks." After school even some teachers, secretaries and janitors came by! Finally, I heard one kid say to another, "I didn't know rocks could be this cool!" Aloha, Kitty At 06:05 PM 11/16/2003, you wrote: >Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > > > Hi List, > > > > I didn't hit the mute in time while watching the TV news tonight and caught > > an ad for "Judge Judy" where she said to a man (plaintiff? accused? I'm not > > sure): "You are dumb as a bucket of rocks." > > > > I give (volunteer) demonstrations at schools and have often used "dumb as a > > rock" as a phrase to introduce the idea to kids' minds that rocks & > > minerals really can "do" things, some of which are pretty smart and > remarkable. > > > > So can you give Judge Judy examples of how a "bucket of rocks" might > > contain some abilities or qualities that are not so dumb? > > > > Aloha, Kitty > > >Everything people use is either grown or mined (some processing is >assumed). Animals need plants, and plants do their own mining (with some >energy help from the sun). Gardening is a form of mining. > >Mining is key to all human survival and activity. > >Rockhounding is the collection and study of rocks and minerals (the >object/product of mining), how formed, where found, how obtained, and >how processed. > >Rockhounding touches on everything we use or do. So can your 'dumb >bucket of rocks' -- it just depends on what rocks you have collected. > >Aloha, > >Kreigh >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 10/16/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 10/16/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 18 19:47:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Don H) Date: Tue Nov 18 19:47:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. References: <5.1.0.14.0.20031103180313.029e8650@mail.aloha.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20031118162311.02368210@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <3FBAE836.ABB9E871@att.net> Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > Hi again, List, > > I was called last night to substitute for a high school science teacher > today, so I took along a bunch of rocks and minerals and our UV lamp and a > Geiger counter, all packed carefully in a 5 gallon paint bucket! Very, very well done. Always, Don From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 19 07:32:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (William Cordua) Date: Wed Nov 19 07:32:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20031118162311.02368210@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: Dear Kitty, This is a great report. Rock hounds have a great tradition of being generous with their time and material in inspiring others to learn about the earth. Your presentation material is in contrast to a distressing trend I've seen from my University's students and faculty in science education. Often our students are asked to do a lesson or a session on earth science in elementary or middle schools. Many pop by my office looking for materials to use. Most recently, though, they've been uninterested in learning themselves about what they are borrowing. For example, one student wanted to demonstrate to kindergartners that rocks could have different sizes and shapes. I offered to get some basalt and fossiliferous limestone and sandstone and.. She interrupted me, saying that she didn't need to know anything about what they were, that her kids couldn't comprehend such technical details. I was amazed. Surely they understand about rivers, beaches and volcanoes. "Nope", she said, "I don't want to know anything about the rocks because the students will just learning that they have different shapes". "Don't you want to know something about them in case some kids asks you?",I said. "No", she says, "I just want gravel. I don't care what it is or where it comes from." I finally just sent her to a nearby stream. I actually wasn't sure she understood she could get gravel there. A few weeks later, another student came in, wanting to demonstrate rocks that would float. I said, "Oh, you want some pumice." This person said he didn't care what it was called, it was too hard a term. "You want to tell the students how it forms and why it floats?" I asked. "They wouldn't understand. I just want to show them that some rocks float". I shudder to think these folks can aspire to be science teachers. How can they challenge and enthuse their students when they won't challenge or enthuse themselves? Our education faculty are telling them (I've heard this expressed): "Don't worry about content, just principles". I think principles are meaningless without content. Keep up the good work gang! We need you! Best wishes - Dr. Bill on 11/18/03 9:58 PM, Kitty & Bill Heacox at kahako@aloha.net wrote: > Hi again, List, > > I was called last night to substitute for a high school science teacher > today, so I took along a bunch of rocks and minerals and our UV lamp and a > Geiger counter, all packed carefully in a 5 gallon paint bucket! Here are > some of the things the kids found out my "bucket of dumb rocks" could > do: Magnetite picked up a paper clip. Ulexite transferred an image from > its underside to its surface. Autunite set the Geiger counter clicking > (just a little). Terlingua calcite fluoresced different colors under LW > and SW. Hackmanite showed tenebrescence. Some Franklin willemite > phosphoresced for several minutes. Yes, I was careful with my > demonstrations, and yes, I showed and told the students > more: triboluminescence, thermoluminescence, iridescence, double > refraction, a crystal that had "healed" itself, stalactites that grew down > and stalagmites that grew up, some minerals that can heal people or keep > them healthy, ones that can kill people or make them sick, ones that can > create weapons or generate power, or be used in makeup or to comfort > babies, and so on. > > Since I am a fine and performing arts person, not a scientist, I came armed > with copies of a list of books for the kids to find in the library, and > websites and topics to search on the computer, so if a kid asked a question > I felt I couldn't handle, I'd point to the list. And amazingly enough, not > one student asked about "metaphysical" powers! (That's almost as amazing > as my-husband-the-astronomer not having a single college student this fall > ask about astrology!) > > The classes were small enough that each student had a chance for a good > look at everything, and to examine some specimens closely. And at morning > recess and lunch, kids came by from other classes asking if they could also > see the "smart rocks." After school even some teachers, secretaries and > janitors came by! Finally, I heard one kid say to another, "I didn't know > rocks could be this cool!" > > Aloha, Kitty > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 19 08:15:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Nov 19 08:15:02 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. References: <5.1.0.14.0.20031103180313.029e8650@mail.aloha.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20031118162311.02368210@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <001601c3aeb8$3a3ce270$409c77d5@axel> >After school even some teachers, secretaries and >janitors came by! Finally, I heard one kid say to another, "I didn't know >rocks could be this cool!" AHAAAA!!! Fresh blood for the list ;-))) Sooner or later they 'll get the collecting-bug... Way to go, Kitty! Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 4:58 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. Hi again, List, I was called last night to substitute for a high school science teacher today, so I took along a bunch of rocks and minerals and our UV lamp and a Geiger counter, all packed carefully in a 5 gallon paint bucket! Here are some of the things the kids found out my "bucket of dumb rocks" could do: Magnetite picked up a paper clip. Ulexite transferred an image from its underside to its surface. Autunite set the Geiger counter clicking (just a little). Terlingua calcite fluoresced different colors under LW and SW. Hackmanite showed tenebrescence. Some Franklin willemite phosphoresced for several minutes. Yes, I was careful with my demonstrations, and yes, I showed and told the students more: triboluminescence, thermoluminescence, iridescence, double refraction, a crystal that had "healed" itself, stalactites that grew down and stalagmites that grew up, some minerals that can heal people or keep them healthy, ones that can kill people or make them sick, ones that can create weapons or generate power, or be used in makeup or to comfort babies, and so on. Since I am a fine and performing arts person, not a scientist, I came armed with copies of a list of books for the kids to find in the library, and websites and topics to search on the computer, so if a kid asked a question I felt I couldn't handle, I'd point to the list. And amazingly enough, not one student asked about "metaphysical" powers! (That's almost as amazing as my-husband-the-astronomer not having a single college student this fall ask about astrology!) The classes were small enough that each student had a chance for a good look at everything, and to examine some specimens closely. And at morning recess and lunch, kids came by from other classes asking if they could also see the "smart rocks." After school even some teachers, secretaries and janitors came by! Finally, I heard one kid say to another, "I didn't know rocks could be this cool!" Aloha, Kitty At 06:05 PM 11/16/2003, you wrote: >Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > > > Hi List, > > > > I didn't hit the mute in time while watching the TV news tonight and caught > > an ad for "Judge Judy" where she said to a man (plaintiff? accused? I'm not > > sure): "You are dumb as a bucket of rocks." > > > > I give (volunteer) demonstrations at schools and have often used "dumb as a > > rock" as a phrase to introduce the idea to kids' minds that rocks & > > minerals really can "do" things, some of which are pretty smart and > remarkable. > > > > So can you give Judge Judy examples of how a "bucket of rocks" might > > contain some abilities or qualities that are not so dumb? > > > > Aloha, Kitty > > >Everything people use is either grown or mined (some processing is >assumed). Animals need plants, and plants do their own mining (with some >energy help from the sun). Gardening is a form of mining. > >Mining is key to all human survival and activity. > >Rockhounding is the collection and study of rocks and minerals (the >object/product of mining), how formed, where found, how obtained, and >how processed. > >Rockhounding touches on everything we use or do. So can your 'dumb >bucket of rocks' -- it just depends on what rocks you have collected. > >Aloha, > >Kreigh >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 10/16/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 10/16/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 19 08:44:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Jokela) Date: Wed Nov 19 08:44:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. References: <5.1.0.14.0.20031103180313.029e8650@mail.aloha.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20031118162311.02368210@mail.aloha.net> <001601c3aeb8$3a3ce270$409c77d5@axel> Message-ID: <005501c3aebd$465f2b80$5906efd1@oemcomputer> Congrats, Kitty. Watch out or you'll be doing it once a week! A friend of mine gives talks on fossils to local schools. He's an enthusiastic collector and manages to keep a classroom of kids literally spellbound for the whole hour. Give me fifty people like you and him and there would be as many mineral collectors as golfers. Coming soon to cable TV - The Gem, Mineral & Fossil Channel!! It's not easy, but it is true that we can change the world, one rock at a time. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr, tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The mineralogy of Ontario, Canada: http://www.ontariominerals.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. > > > Hi again, List, > > I was called last night to substitute for a high school science teacher > today, so I took along a bunch of rocks and minerals and our UV lamp and a > Geiger counter, all packed carefully in a 5 gallon paint bucket! Here are snip From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 19 08:59:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Wed Nov 19 08:59:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] This Saturday and Sunday Message-ID: <3FBBA14D.7060302@tenforward.com> Hi All, For those of you in the Seattle area, the Kitsap Gem and Mineral Club is having their Mineral and Gem Show this weekend and I'd like to invite you to attend. I'll be there popping geodes and selling Challis heulandites and world specimens. Come on by and say hello and share in the fun! The hours will be from 10 - 5 on both Sat. and Sunday and the show will be held in the Kitsap County Fairgrounds. I hope to see some of you there. All the best everyone, see ya, John From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 19 09:01:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Wed Nov 19 09:01:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sunday 11/30 Disney Radio Message-ID: <3FBBA15F.5040202@tenforward.com> Hi Everyone, As many of you know, educational outreach is very important to me. Just this last weekend, I was invited to speak on Disney Radio here in Seattle, Washington. The show is 1/2 hour long and is called Seattle Kids Care. My show will air Sunday 11/30 at 7:30 PM on KKDZ AM 1250. Much of the focus will be on my work at the Olympic Park Institute where I do Crystal and Fossil talks and a weekend long Family Field Seminar called Far Out Fossils, Crystals and Minerals. If your interested, do a search for Olympic Park Institute and then search their Family Seminars for more info. on my program and others offered. Thanks much, see ya, John --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 19 09:02:27 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Wed Nov 19 09:02:27 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Challis, Idaho heulandite update Message-ID: <3FBBA181.80400@tenforward.com> Hi everyone, Just a quick note to let you know that I've finally completed cleaning and am currently getting my orders pulled and will be mailing these next week. Thank you those of you who have ordered and who have shown an interest in my Idaho adventures. Currently specimens are available for sale in sizes from thumbnails to museum sized 65 pound monsters. If I can help, just let me know. Also, for those of you interested, another chapter in the Challis story is still awaiting writing and will hopefully soon be started (currently I'm writing my field trip paper of collecting eurypterids in New York). All the best everone, see ya, John From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 19 10:00:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Wed Nov 19 10:00:02 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. Message-ID: <12121AD6.24578E3F.02180873@aol.com> Dr. Bill and all: It troubles me that education students so dogmatically underestimate the potential and interest that their students will have. No wonder we turn students off to science at such an early age. Years ago, when I lived in another state, I did a number of presentations to schools and through the library in a really disadvantaged area. I'd come in dressed as Indiana Jones (which in retrospect was really funny since this was NorthWest Indiana) and I'd dazzle the gradeschoolers with fossils and paleontology. Three rules would guide me. 1) keep the pace fast and exciting 2) leave 'em wanting more and 3) have a handout (some sort of fossil or crystal) for every kid. The kids loved it and you got to see how badly a lot of these kids craved attention. Most of them had no trouble picking up on any of the content, and in fact most wanted more. Too bad there aren't a lot of good collecting sites for gradeschoolers in and near Gary, In. I'd bet we'd have had a load of volunteers. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE In a message dated 11/19/2003 10:31:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, William Cordua writes: >Dear Kitty, >    This is a great report. Rock hounds have a great tradition of being >generous with their time and material in inspiring others to learn about the >earth. >    Your presentation material is in contrast to a distressing trend I've >seen from my University's students and faculty in science education. Often >our students are asked to do a lesson or a session on earth science in >elementary or middle schools. Many pop by my office looking for materials to >use. >     Most recently, though, they've been uninterested in learning themselves >about what they are borrowing. For example, one student wanted to >demonstrate to kindergartners that rocks could have different sizes and >shapes. I offered to get some basalt and fossiliferous limestone and >sandstone and.. She interrupted me, saying that she didn't need to know >anything about what they were, that her kids couldn't comprehend such >technical details. I was amazed. Surely they understand about rivers, >beaches and volcanoes. >    "Nope", she said, "I don't want to know anything about the rocks because >the students will just learning that they have different shapes". >    "Don't you want to know something about them in case some kids asks >you?",I said.   >    "No", she says, "I just want gravel. I don't care what it is or where it >comes from." >    I finally just sent her to a nearby stream. I actually wasn't sure she >understood she could get gravel there. >    A few weeks later, another student came in, wanting to demonstrate rocks >that would float. >    I said, "Oh, you want some pumice." This person said he didn't care what >it was called, it was too hard a term. >    "You want to tell the students how it forms and why it floats?" I asked. >    "They wouldn't understand. I just want to show them that some rocks >float". >    I shudder to think these folks can aspire to be science teachers. How >can they challenge and enthuse their students when they won't challenge or >enthuse themselves? >    Our education faculty are telling them (I've heard this expressed): >"Don't worry about content, just principles". I think principles are >meaningless without content. >    Keep up the good work gang! We need you! > >    Best wishes - Dr. Bill >   >   > > >on 11/18/03 9:58 PM, Kitty & Bill Heacox at kahako@aloha.net wrote: > >> Hi again, List, >> >> I was called last night to substitute for a high school science teacher >> today, so I took along a bunch of rocks and minerals and our UV lamp and a >> Geiger counter, all packed carefully in a 5 gallon paint bucket!  Here are >> some of the things the kids found out my "bucket of dumb rocks" could >> do:  Magnetite picked up a paper clip.  Ulexite transferred an image from >> its underside to its surface.  Autunite set the Geiger counter clicking >> (just a little).  Terlingua calcite fluoresced different colors under LW >> and SW.  Hackmanite showed tenebrescence.  Some Franklin willemite >> phosphoresced for several minutes. Yes, I was careful with my >> demonstrations, and yes, I showed and told the students >> more:  triboluminescence, thermoluminescence, iridescence, double >> refraction, a crystal that had "healed" itself, stalactites that grew down >> and stalagmites that grew up, some minerals that can heal people or keep >> them healthy, ones that can kill people or make them sick, ones that can >> create weapons or generate power, or be used in makeup or to comfort >> babies, and so on. >> >> Since I am a fine and performing arts person, not a scientist, I came armed >> with copies of a list of books for the kids to find in the library, and >> websites and topics to search on the computer, so if a kid asked a question >> I felt I couldn't handle, I'd point to the list.  And amazingly enough, not >> one student asked about "metaphysical" powers!  (That's almost as amazing >> as my-husband-the-astronomer not having a single college student this fall >> ask about astrology!) >> >> The classes were small enough that each student had a chance for a good >> look at everything, and to examine some specimens closely.  And at morning >> recess and lunch, kids came by from other classes asking if they could also >> see the "smart rocks."  After school even some teachers, secretaries and >> janitors came by! Finally, I heard one kid say to another, "I didn't know >> rocks could be this cool!" >> >> Aloha, Kitty >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 19 10:24:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Gary Brown) Date: Wed Nov 19 10:24:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. In-Reply-To: <12121AD6.24578E3F.02180873@aol.com> Message-ID: <00cf01c3aeca$3529bb20$6701a8c0@moose> I don't think that this is generally true. Being in grad school myself (old dog...new tricks ), and being in training to be a middle school science teacher (yeh, yeh, glutton for punishment), I've not found this attitude in my fellow students. Nor, have I found it any of the middle-school or elementary school teachers I've worked with over the years. My sweetie teaches elementary school in inner-city Minneapolis. Heck, if she figures THEY can handle the science stuff (and she does), it should be able to be handled anywhere. Gary Brown > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > FOSSILNUT@aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 11:59 AM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. > > > Dr. Bill and all: > > It troubles me that education students so dogmatically > underestimate the potential and interest that their students > will have. No wonder we turn students off to science at such > an early age...... From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 19 12:12:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (DANIEL-HARRY STEWARD) Date: Wed Nov 19 12:12:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] This Saturday and Sunday References: <3FBBA14D.7060302@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <00a401c3aeda$4676cc00$ea5a1a43@uswest.net> Hi John-- Please describe the location--what city--address location etc. for the Kitsap County Fairgrounds. Thanks! Danny Steward / Seattle ----- Original Message ----- From: "John and Gloria Cornish" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 8:58 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] This Saturday and Sunday > Hi All, > > For those of you in the Seattle area, the Kitsap Gem and Mineral Club is > having their Mineral and Gem Show this weekend and I'd like to invite > you to attend. I'll be there popping geodes and selling Challis > heulandites and world specimens. Come on by and say hello and share in > the fun! The hours will be from 10 - 5 on both Sat. and Sunday and the > show will be held in the Kitsap County Fairgrounds. I hope to see some > of you there. All the best everyone, see ya, > > John > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 19 13:13:40 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Nov 19 13:13:40 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Rockhounds]...and now for a totally different topic.. Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031119102815.009eba60@mail.aloha.net> Once a year I give a big demonstration at two public schools here on the Big Island---one K - 6 and the other K - 12. I arrange for a room that can be darkened, and prepare a set up that accommodates our large cabinet UV lamps, one SW and one LW, as well as a hand-held that can switch between SW and LW. Then there are tables with samples of everything from fossils to crystals to sand. I separate the ones that are delicate or potentially dangerous and keep them either in a small glass cabinet or with an assistant on guard to enforce the "don't touch" sign. Everything else is "hands on" and there are boxes for little kids to step up on so they can reach the table height. I start with a short presentation and demonstration, and then go to questions, and finally allow the kids to wander around and get a closer look. The Kindergarten kids are extremely enthusiastic and are definitely able to grasp certain concepts, and they ask neat questions! Of course I have to make the answers simple for the younger kids, but I don't have to "talk down" to them. When a little one asks why the rocks glow with the special light I don't try to explain molecular structure and activators; I say that certain things react differently to other things...if you throw a Nerf ball at a window, the window responds differently than if you throw a baseball at it. So some things respond differently to special kinds of light. I used to give out small crystals, fossils or other pretty rocks to each child, but I've run out, and there aren't a whole lot of opportunities to get anything but lava bits in Hawaii. However, I do include a table of interesting lava pieces and pictures for the kids to look at. It's surprising how few people who live here have actually gone down to where the lava activity is! My husband-the-college-professor helped build a program at University of Hawaii at Hilo for aspiring science teachers: They get a BA in Natural Science by taking courses in each of the sciences and declaring a minor in one of their choice. Then they go on for a Masters in Education, which includes practice teaching, and at the end they get their teaching certificate. The people who complete the program are delighted because they have a solid background in science, good training in teaching methods, and since they have an MA they are at a higher salary level when they start teaching. Every one of the graduates since the program began four years ago has gotten a job immediately and is still teaching. Aloha, Kitty .....Rock hounds have a great tradition of being generous with their time and material in inspiring others to learn about the earth. Your presentation material is in contrast to a distressing trend I've seen from my University's students and faculty in science education..... Our education faculty are telling them (I've heard this expressed): "Don't worry about content, just principles". I think principles are meaningless without content. - Dr. Bill ......Watch out or you'll be doing it once a week!....It's not easy, but it is true that we can change the world, one rock at a time. -Tim Jokela ....It troubles me that education students so dogmatically underestimate the potential and interest that their students will have. No wonder we turn students off to science at such an early age.....Three rules would guide me. 1) keep the pace fast and exciting 2) leave 'em wanting more and 3) have a handout (some sort of fossil or crystal) for every kid. The kids loved it ....Most of them had no trouble picking up on any of the content, and in fact most wanted more. -Gene Hartstein I don't think that this is generally true. Being in grad school myself (old dog...new tricks ), and being in training to be a middle school science teacher (yeh, yeh, glutton for punishment), I've not found this attitude in my fellow students. Nor, have I found it any of the middle-school or elementary school teachers I've worked with over the years. My sweetie teaches elementary school in inner-city Minneapolis. Heck, if she figures THEY can handle the science stuff (and she does), it should be able to be handled anywhere. -Gary Brown --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 19 14:07:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Dri) Date: Wed Nov 19 14:07:02 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] This Saturday and Sunday References: <3FBBA14D.7060302@tenforward.com> <00a401c3aeda$4676cc00$ea5a1a43@uswest.net> Message-ID: <006c01c3aee9$7ce4faa0$6701a8c0@dslverizon.net> I second that John Directions please? Dri-Anna -Mountlake Terrace WA - USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "DANIEL-HARRY STEWARD" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 12:18 Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] This Saturday and Sunday > Hi John-- > Please describe the location--what city--address location etc. for the > Kitsap County Fairgrounds. > Thanks! > Danny Steward / Seattle > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John and Gloria Cornish" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 8:58 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] This Saturday and Sunday > > > > Hi All, > > > > For those of you in the Seattle area, the Kitsap Gem and Mineral Club is > > having their Mineral and Gem Show this weekend and I'd like to invite > > you to attend. I'll be there popping geodes and selling Challis > > heulandites and world specimens. Come on by and say hello and share in > > the fun! The hours will be from 10 - 5 on both Sat. and Sunday and the > > show will be held in the Kitsap County Fairgrounds. I hope to see some > > of you there. All the best everyone, see ya, > > > > John > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 19 16:16:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Nov 19 16:16:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ....and now...a postscript Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031119141716.0298bc10@mail.aloha.net> Hi List, A postscript to how I do the once-a-year demonstration for schools: I failed to mention that I arrange this with the school so that teachers bring their classes in one at a time. That way I never have more than 30 children in a group---usually more like 15 or 20---and the classroom teacher is there to enforce discipline should that be needed. It also means that I give seven presentations in one day at the elementary school. And at the K - 12 school the sessions are spread over two days, grades K - 5 on one day, and 6 - 12 the next (This is a small school, by the way, with only about 200 students; it's in the town of Laupahoehoe, which means "Lava Tongue," for the nearby peninsula of the same name. The school used to be on that peninsula, but it was washed away in the tsunami of April 1, 1946). I also arrange to have a few good students help with set-up before school, and pack-up after school. And on the following day I collapse! Aloha, Kitty --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 19 19:11:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Lawrence Bull) Date: Wed Nov 19 19:11:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Worcester, MA mineral club show Message-ID: Hi Everyone: The Worcester Mineral Club will be having their annual show this weekend the 22nd and 23rd from 10:00 AM to 5:00 PM each day. It takes place at the Army National Guard facitlity on Lincoln Street, Worceseter, MA easy access from Interstate 290 at the Main Street, Shrewsbury exit and go north. If anyone wants additional directions please e-mail me. The show is a good mineral collectors show with the emphasis on minerals and fossils with some jewelry etc. Larry Bull _________________________________________________________________ Say “goodbye” to busy signals and slow downloads with a high-speed Internet connection! Prices start at less than $1 a day average. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 19 19:14:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Brian Doll) Date: Wed Nov 19 19:14:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] This Saturday and Sunday Message-ID: Hi all - The Kitsap County Fairgrounds are in Bremerton. I attended the show a couple of years ago, and I would say that it was worth the drive. I dont recall the exact directions, but I imagine you can get them from mapquest. I'll problably be there on Saturday - need to get some Christmas gifts for the family! Brian >From: "Dri" >Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >To: >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] This Saturday and Sunday >Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:07:13 -0800 > >I second that John Directions please? >Dri-Anna -Mountlake Terrace >WA - USA > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "DANIEL-HARRY STEWARD" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 12:18 >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] This Saturday and Sunday > > > > Hi John-- > > Please describe the location--what city--address location etc. for >the > > Kitsap County Fairgrounds. > > Thanks! > > Danny Steward / Seattle > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John and Gloria Cornish" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 8:58 AM > > Subject: [Rockhounds] This Saturday and Sunday > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > For those of you in the Seattle area, the Kitsap Gem and Mineral Club >is > > > having their Mineral and Gem Show this weekend and I'd like to invite > > > you to attend. I'll be there popping geodes and selling Challis > > > heulandites and world specimens. Come on by and say hello and share in > > > the fun! The hours will be from 10 - 5 on both Sat. and Sunday and the > > > show will be held in the Kitsap County Fairgrounds. I hope to see some > > > of you there. All the best everyone, see ya, > > > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _________________________________________________________________ Need a shot of Hank Williams or Patsy Cline? The classic country stars are always singing on MSN Radio Plus. Try one month free! http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 19 20:39:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Wed Nov 19 20:39:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] This Saturday and Sunday In-Reply-To: <00a401c3aeda$4676cc00$ea5a1a43@uswest.net> References: <3FBBA14D.7060302@tenforward.com> <00a401c3aeda$4676cc00$ea5a1a43@uswest.net> Message-ID: <3FBC4533.40307@tenforward.com> Hi Everyone, Thank you for your interest. Stop by and say hi! All the best, John Bremerton - Kitsap County Fairgrounds 1195 NW Fairgrounds Rd, Bremerton, WA 98311 (360) 337-5350 Campus Information, Directions and Map >From Bremerton: Follow Hwy16 towards Silverdale which becomes Hwy 3. Go approximately 8.5 miles and take the Newberry Hill Rd. exit. Turn right onto Newberry Hill Rd. which becomes Silverdale Way NW. Turn right onto Bucklin Hill Rd. Turn right onto Tracyton Blvd NW. Turn left onto Fairgrounds Rd. DANIEL-HARRY STEWARD wrote: >Hi John-- > Please describe the location--what city--address location etc. for the >Kitsap County Fairgrounds. >Thanks! >Danny Steward / Seattle > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John and Gloria Cornish" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 8:58 AM >Subject: [Rockhounds] This Saturday and Sunday > > > > >>Hi All, >> >>For those of you in the Seattle area, the Kitsap Gem and Mineral Club is >>having their Mineral and Gem Show this weekend and I'd like to invite >>you to attend. I'll be there popping geodes and selling Challis >>heulandites and world specimens. Come on by and say hello and share in >>the fun! The hours will be from 10 - 5 on both Sat. and Sunday and the >>show will be held in the Kitsap County Fairgrounds. I hope to see some >>of you there. All the best everyone, see ya, >> >>John >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Nov 20 05:59:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (TA Masters) Date: Thu Nov 20 05:59:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. References: Message-ID: <3FBCC8ED.4060908@cox.net> Dr. Bill, Someone is really dropping the ball. Earth Sciences need a boost from enthusiastic teachers. The attitude you are seeing is sad. Too much TV, computer games, too little outside activities such as hikes where you may discover some interesting specimens along the way. There is a Science/discovery comic in my Sunday newspaper comic section, I learn something new almost every week. This past week it was in response to the question of why the house makes noises. I listen to my house just about every evening, I wondered if it was shifting, or if the slab was cracking, I just did not know. The answer was in that comic! I am far less concerned now. Never too old to learn, or too young for that matter. Thanks Teresa From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Nov 20 07:59:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Lawrence Rush) Date: Thu Nov 20 07:59:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Charles Weber Message-ID: <001601c3af7e$e98d5680$a9814c0c@fekib> Charlie Weber, a well-known micromounter and the widower of the late mineralogist, Marcella Weber, died Sunday locally here in Guilford, Ct. He and Marcella were avid collectors and researchers, frequenting Mt.St.Hilaire for many years. They have the honor of having a new mineral, Charmarite, named after them. If anyone wishes more information on memorials or details, please contact me. Larry Rush "Noel Coward thought work was more fun than play, but he never, ever worked in the mines" From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Nov 20 07:59:20 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Lawrence Rush) Date: Thu Nov 20 07:59:20 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unique name plate Message-ID: <001701c3af7e$ea246660$a9814c0c@fekib> A mineral friend of mine did me a nice favor recently and I wanted to share what it is with you, in case you may want one of these for yourselves. (I hope you accept this not as an advertisement, but more of a sharing of things mineralogical!). In return for a favor to him, he made me a name plate, which is unique and neat. It consists of a polished slab of labradorite, with my name incised on it, and mounted in a hardwood case so that it can be used at shows, or as a desk accessory. It is about 3" wide and 7" long at the base and sits upright. It is professionally done (Steve is a cabinet-maker by trade), and very striking. If anyone is interested (it would make a great dealer's name sign at shows!), you can contact Steve at sjrprime@aol.com or at http://members.aol.com/SJRPRIME/mmdhome.html ( He also makes mineral cabinets, wooden labels and mounting stands) Larry Rush "Noel Coward thought work was more fun than play, but he never, ever worked in the mines" From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Nov 20 08:12:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Nathan C. Martin II) Date: Thu Nov 20 08:12:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unique name plate In-Reply-To: <001701c3af7e$ea246660$a9814c0c@fekib> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20031120110632.01dfac00@po2.bbn.com> Larry, Thanks for letting us know about this. I am not a dealer but I have used Steve's display stands for several years and have always found his work to be excellent. I think I'll start dropping hints to my wife that this would make a great Christmas gift! Nate Martin Lexington, MA At 10:55 AM 11/20/2003, you wrote: >A mineral friend of mine did me a nice favor recently and I wanted to share >what it is with you, in case you may want one of these for yourselves. (I >hope you accept this not as an advertisement, but more of a sharing of >things mineralogical!). In return for a favor to him, he made me a name >plate, which is unique and neat. It consists of a polished slab of >labradorite, with my name incised on it, and mounted in a hardwood case so >that it can be used at shows, or as a desk accessory. It is about 3" wide >and 7" long at the base and sits upright. It is professionally done (Steve >is a cabinet-maker by trade), and very striking. If anyone is interested (it >would make a great dealer's name sign at shows!), you can contact Steve at >sjrprime@aol.com or at http://members.aol.com/SJRPRIME/mmdhome.html > >( He also makes mineral cabinets, wooden labels and mounting stands) > >Larry Rush > Dr. Nathan C. Martin Principal Scientist BBN Technologies, A Verizon Company Room 1/117, 10 Moulton Street, Cambridge, MA 02138 Phone: (617)873-3495 Office FAX: (617)873-2918 From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Nov 20 11:01:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Ronnie Van Dommelen) Date: Thu Nov 20 11:01:02 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Removing analcime from copper Message-ID: <3FBD100E.2060304@dal.ca> Hi All, I have a nice copper specimen with massive analcime grown all in and around the small crystals. I have been working hard with a needle under the microscope to remove the analcime but am hitting a wall. The analcime is just getting too hard to work. Does anyone know of any way to get rid of it? Acid would galantinize the analcime, but would ruin the nice copper too. Just as an experiment, I was thinking of heating the specimen quite a bit and then putting it in liquid nitrogen. I'm not sure if that would do anything useful, the expansion of the copper might not be enough (although it might make a cool explosion). Any ideas or is it an impossible goal? Happy Collecting, Ronnie van Dommelen From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Nov 20 11:15:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Nov 20 11:15:02 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Advertisement: Lapidary Rough & Slab Sale ends Friday 11/21 Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20031120111206.01d7e720@mail.spiritone.com> Just a quick note that my 50% off most rough and slabs sale is ending tomorrow since I am going to the right (old) coast for 2 weeks... >I am broke so I am staying put this Labor Day. To keep >myself occupied and my mind off of Virgin Valley I am offering most of my >lapidary rough and slabs for 50% off through Labor Day. This includes >Dust Devil sunstones. Just order half of what you need if you are using >the PayPal cart. Here's the link to the sale page: > > >http://orerockon.com/lapidary.htm Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Nov 20 11:17:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Van) Date: Thu Nov 20 11:17:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Removing analcime from copper References: <3FBD100E.2060304@dal.ca> Message-ID: <000d01c3af9a$bb2a1eb0$c3ff4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> Try HCl. This acid doesn't attack copper as readily as Nitric acid. Test an inconsequential specimen. Perhaps a partial acid treatment will "soften" the analcime so it's easier to pick out and the copper will be relatively unscathed. You don't have to treat the specimen to the point that the analcime is completely gelatinized. Van From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Nov 20 15:14:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Ronald Schanfish) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:14:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Spain/Morocco Trip Message-ID: <00d501c3afbb$d4d35270$0100a8c0@WonderBox> Will be leaving Saturday for a trip to Andalusia ,Spain and Northern Morocco! Any interesting "mineral" sights to see? Will be traveling first week around Southern Spain by rental auto so if there is anything available might take a swat at it! Second week in Morocco will be more of a "package"tour but might work something out if it is special and close to the tour route! Any ideas! Ron Schanfish From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Nov 20 16:15:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Jokela) Date: Thu Nov 20 16:15:02 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Spain/Morocco Trip References: <00d501c3afbb$d4d35270$0100a8c0@WonderBox> Message-ID: <004e01c3afc5$78a986e0$0f06efd1@oemcomputer> Jordi Fabre is an excellent dealer in Barcelona, google out his website for contact info. The pyrite mines at Navajun would be a cool thing to see, they allow fee collecting, I'm sure Jordi could put you in touch with the folks in charge. Spain is a wonderful country, have a great trip! Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr, tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The mineralogy of Ontario, Canada: http://www.ontariominerals.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ronald Schanfish" To: Sent: November 20, 2003 6:12 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Spain/Morocco Trip > Will be leaving Saturday for a trip to Andalusia ,Spain and Northern > Morocco! Any interesting "mineral" sights to see? Will be traveling first > week around Southern Spain by rental auto so if there is anything available > might take a swat at it! Second week in Morocco will be more of a > "package"tour but might work something out if it is special and close to the > tour route! Any ideas! Ron Schanfish > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Nov 20 16:52:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (John Siebel) Date: Thu Nov 20 16:52:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. References: <3FBCC8ED.4060908@cox.net> Message-ID: <001301c3afb8$be0be640$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Teresa, So, for those of us who are still concerned, why *is* your house making noises? Most of ours are coming from loads of snow sliding off the roof followed by cats skittering and dogs following suit. John Santa, Idaho > There is a Science/discovery comic in my Sunday newspaper comic section, > I learn something new almost every week. This past week it was in > response to the question of why the house makes noises. I listen to my > house just about every evening, I wondered if it was shifting, or if the > slab was cracking, I just did not know. The answer was in that comic! I > am far less concerned now. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Nov 20 21:15:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (TA Masters) Date: Thu Nov 20 21:15:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. References: <3FBCC8ED.4060908@cox.net> <001301c3afb8$be0be640$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <3FBD9FBA.5040509@cox.net> John, Contraction, as the warmth of the Sun decreases, I guess the house adjusts. Something like a big stretch? Must admit it was a bit scary at first. Teresa From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Nov 22 02:32:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Frank de Wit) Date: Sat Nov 22 02:32:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Spain/Morocco Trip References: <00d501c3afbb$d4d35270$0100a8c0@WonderBox> Message-ID: <002501c3b0e3$cb500670$897ba8c0@cm333814lt> the michuel vacas mine is in the south of portugal right on the border with spain; so south of spain ;-) see: http://www.strahlen.org/ cheers! Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ronald Schanfish" To: Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 12:12 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Spain/Morocco Trip > Will be leaving Saturday for a trip to Andalusia ,Spain and Northern > Morocco! Any interesting "mineral" sights to see? Will be traveling first > week around Southern Spain by rental auto so if there is anything available > might take a swat at it! Second week in Morocco will be more of a > "package"tour but might work something out if it is special and close to the > tour route! Any ideas! Ron Schanfish > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Nov 22 02:47:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sat Nov 22 02:47:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Spain/Morocco Trip In-Reply-To: <00d501c3afbb$d4d35270$0100a8c0@WonderBox> Message-ID: Hi, Be carefull with Moroccan customs. A friend of mine is Moroccan and deals in minerals and fossils. To get minerals and fossils out of the country as a dealer requiers a special permit. Even then he sometimes has to wait several months for his goods to clear customs. Of course custom employees can not see if you are a dealer. Their rule of thumb was always "If you have two specimen or more of the same mineral, you are a dealer." So at least in theory you can run into trouble trying to get out two vanadinites without a permit! So far it is not as bad as Turkey, but it may be wise to ask around with customs when entering the country, what you are allowed to take out. Cheers, Maurice -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Ronald Schanfish Sent: vrijdag 21 november 2003 0:13 To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Spain/Morocco Trip Will be leaving Saturday for a trip to Andalusia ,Spain and Northern Morocco! Any interesting "mineral" sights to see? Will be traveling first week around Southern Spain by rental auto so if there is anything available might take a swat at it! Second week in Morocco will be more of a "package"tour but might work something out if it is special and close to the tour route! Any ideas! Ron Schanfish _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 23 12:22:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Sun Nov 23 12:22:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] New look for the North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club's website! Message-ID: Hi all, After a few weeks of redesigning and hard work, I am happy to announce that the North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club's website has gotten a major facelift. Some of the new features include: a main menu on the left side of most pages (except the photo pages), a general menu at the bottom of all pages, new layout for the photo pages, and external links will now open in a separate browser window. I would like to thank Cheri Dougherty for her graphical artistry on the main banner picture/collage; for her tireless testing to make sure all of the links are working correctly; and for her design/layout skills. We hope all of you enjoy the new "look and feel" of the website. We think it looks much more professional than it used to, yet still has the same text and picture content that it has always had. Regards, Bob Loeffler :) Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 23 13:02:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kris Murray) Date: Sun Nov 23 13:02:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] davis creel obsidian In-Reply-To: <000801c39cab$f85b9cc0$6800a8c0@larry> References: <000801c39cab$f85b9cc0$6800a8c0@larry> Message-ID: <48075B94-1DF8-11D8-953E-000A95AF049E@mac.com> my apologies to everyone one to whom this message is cross-posted earlier this year on this list i read about the davis creek obsidian in north cali. being that i like obsidian and i heard that there was 'electric blue' stuff at this site (and my better half, who puts up with my rock obsession, likes blue) so i decided to stopo by there on my way out of lake tahoe (i had to go to a convention there in october). first thing i did was get ahold of the ranger station out there to find out that yea i could collect i just needed the free permit at cedarville, california. so i mapquested from tahoe to cedarville and headed out there not knowing what to expect (having only collected at burns oregon). the ranger was really nice and a local rock shop guy kinda tried to change the subject a few times saying all the good stuff was gone and leading me towards some scepters some miles away. the ranger said there was plenty of needles and we were already there so WTF, we went for it. it was easy getting there and based upon our map we were given it was a huge loop road with the first site tob the right, and the other two to the left but you could make the whole loop if you wanted to which we did. now the first site to the right the "davis creek" site had no pits but we did locate some obsidian that looked like blue lace agate, small pieces though. further walking showed a place that had a few more of the pieces and it LOOKED like the whole place had been overturned, like we were looking at old tailings that were old enough to resemble ground. the amount of blue agate/obsidian was high here but it was very apparent that we would not be able to get any large piece of that without a backhoe, ugh. we headed around the loop towards i think the pink lady mines that we were told were mined out long ago. we never found them but everywhere the ground was sparkling and there were 1-2" pieces every three inches of low grade black stuff. we did find some pits with some diggers. they were getting gold sheen and some cloud type of stuff, neat, but didnt really get my goat. he said that some of the pits held huge sheen pieces but we looked at every one we could find and didnt really see much that made us go ohh or ahh, just hmmm. (some of the pits near burns when you hoop in them you go wow, crazy, neat, etc) so we continued on to the famed 'needles' pit. wow, neat, now that place is neat. huge pits of nothing but needles. any and every wall of obsidian would break off into needles and nothing else. i guess that was some feature of how it cooled maybe? we easily got 10lbs of needles and figured that we had enough. even though there were deep its there was no huge piece that could be had. in every pit everywhere it was that way. this whole place had more soil over it that the burns desert so it was very different from burns. but neat stuff. i have a grip of material to go through a few pieces with nifty color for a small 2" sphere or two. anyone know about the pink lady stuff? my convention next oct is again in tahoe so i can again go by there, which we may do for needles but i am wondering if anyone knows if it would be worth my time to hunt for the pink lady or dig for electric blue? one of the diggers i met showed me a 3 foot limb cast he had got out of a canyon near cedarville, anyone know whats up with that? I think we will go back i just am not sure where or not i should explore some more roads to find some really neat stuff or just get some needles which are kinda neat, in a crafty sort of way. TIA ~KM From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 23 13:52:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun Nov 23 13:52:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Davis Creek obsidian In-Reply-To: <48075B94-1DF8-11D8-953E-000A95AF049E@mac.com> References: <000801c39cab$f85b9cc0$6800a8c0@larry> <48075B94-1DF8-11D8-953E-000A95AF049E@mac.com> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20031123134650.01d764f8@mail.spiritone.com> I have directions, maps, and pictures of material from each pit in the area on my site & CD. Pink Lady has some great material if you follow my directions and the Electric Blue pit is actually at Lassen Creek, and is pretty well covered by about 12 feet of tailings, BTW...all the good stuff is not anywhere near gone. It would take an army of diggers a century or two to dig out Davis Creek. I pull several 50 lb.+ pieces from each and every pit and other locations in the area every year. You missed the big Davis Creek pits; it's the first site to the right on the USFS map but is a little tricky to find. At 01:02 PM 11/23/2003, you wrote: >my apologies to everyone one to whom this message is cross-posted > earlier this year on this list i read about the davis creek > obsidian in north cali. being that i like obsidian and i heard that there > was 'electric blue' stuff at this site (and my better half, who puts up > with my rock obsession, likes blue) so i decided to stopo by there on my > way out of lake tahoe (i had to go to a convention there in october). > first thing i did was get ahold of the ranger station out there to find > out that yea i could collect i just needed the free permit at cedarville, > california. so i mapquested from tahoe to cedarville and headed out there > not knowing what to expect (having only collected at burns oregon). the > ranger was really nice and a local rock shop guy kinda tried to change > the subject a few times saying all the good stuff was gone and leading me > towards some scepters some miles away. the ranger said there was plenty > of needles and we were already there so WTF, we went for it. > it was easy getting there and based upon our map we were given it > was a huge loop road with the first site tob the right, and the other two > to the left but you could make the whole loop if you wanted to which we > did. now the first site to the right the "davis creek" site had no pits > but we did locate some obsidian that looked like blue lace agate, small > pieces though. further walking showed a place that had a few more of the > pieces and it LOOKED like the whole place had been overturned, like we > were looking at old tailings that were old enough to resemble ground. the > amount of blue agate/obsidian was high here but it was very apparent that > we would not be able to get any large piece of that without a backhoe, ugh. > we headed around the loop towards i think the pink lady mines > that we were told were mined out long ago. we never found them but > everywhere the ground was sparkling and there were 1-2" pieces every > three inches of low grade black stuff. we did find some pits with some > diggers. they were getting gold sheen and some cloud type of stuff, neat, > but didnt really get my goat. he said that some of the pits held huge > sheen pieces but we looked at every one we could find and didnt really > see much that made us go ohh or ahh, just hmmm. (some of the pits near > burns when you hoop in them you go wow, crazy, neat, etc) >so we continued on to the famed 'needles' pit. wow, neat, now that place >is neat. huge pits of nothing but needles. any and every wall of obsidian >would break off into needles and nothing else. i guess that was some >feature of how it cooled maybe? we easily got 10lbs of needles and figured >that we had enough. > even though there were deep its there was no huge piece that > could be had. in every pit everywhere it was that way. this whole place > had more soil over it that the burns desert so it was very different from > burns. but neat stuff. i have a grip of material to go through a few > pieces with nifty color for a small 2" sphere or two. > anyone know about the pink lady stuff? my convention next oct is > again in tahoe so i can again go by there, which we may do for needles > but i am wondering if anyone knows if it would be worth my time to hunt > for the pink lady or dig for electric blue? one of the diggers i met > showed me a 3 foot limb cast he had got out of a canyon near cedarville, > anyone know whats up with that? I think we will go back i just am not > sure where or not i should explore some more roads to find some really > neat stuff or just get some needles which are kinda neat, in a crafty > sort of way. >TIA >~KM > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 23 15:16:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kris Murray) Date: Sun Nov 23 15:16:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Davis Creek obsidian In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20031123134650.01d764f8@mail.spiritone.com> References: <000801c39cab$f85b9cc0$6800a8c0@larry> <48075B94-1DF8-11D8-953E-000A95AF049E@mac.com> <6.0.1.1.2.20031123134650.01d764f8@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: i have a photo of the sign where i was at but didnt see the pit thanks ~KM -- Absolute submission can be a form of freedom --- On Nov 23, 2003, at 1:51 PM, Tim Fisher wrote: > You missed the big Davis Creek pits --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 23 18:44:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sun Nov 23 18:44:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] obsidian for flint knapping, anyone? Message-ID: Hey everyone. I'm looking for some obsidion for practicing my knapping skills and was wondering if there was anyone who has some they would like to donate to my practice. I will pay the shipping if it's not a big bulk package. Doesn't have to be fine grade. Actually don't expect to use great quality. just good enough so it fractures well for good points. I live in a place that it's hard to come by material like this. any tips from any Flint knappers out there? Thanks in advance. Kevin Paintricks custom Airbrushing --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Nov 24 09:14:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Richard@Mineral of the Month Club) Date: Mon Nov 24 09:14:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Membership renewal Message-ID: <001301c3b2af$3a7876a0$6c4e5d3f@t5k8i6> Hello All, One of our Club members is asking me a question that I thought some list = members might be able to answer: "My wife and I are taking a trip to Thunder Bay, Ontario next year and = was wondering if you know of any books or other references describing = collecting localities in the area. I'm interested in the areas around = Lake Superior, Thunder Bay, Minnesotta, and Michigan."=20 If you have any references, I'll forward them to him. Thanks! Richard Sittinger Mineral of the Month Club --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Nov 24 09:42:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Nov 24 09:42:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ontario collecting In-Reply-To: <001301c3b2af$3a7876a0$6c4e5d3f@t5k8i6> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031124075436.02377df0@mail.aloha.net> We found Bancroft so wonderful the first time we went there in 1999 that we went to a lot of effort to go again in 2000 and 2001. First trip: 2 days, we said, "We've got to come back and stay longer." Second trip: 4 days, we said, "This still wasn't enough time; we've got to stay longer." Third trip: 6 days, we said, "You know, we've still just scratched the surface!" I believe Bancroft is about a 3-hour drive from Toronto, and a full day drive to Thunder Bay. The information below is copied from the Web. The Guidebook from the Chamber of Commerce is excellent, showing locations of over 30 collecting sites from mine dumps to river beds to road cuts and caves, and listing minerals and where they can be found. Local geology maps are also available at the Chamber, as well as permits to enter those few sites that require a small entry fee. Aloha, Kitty http://www.bancroftdistrict.com/ http://www.discovermyvillage.com/Articles/mines/mineral_collecting_introduction_bancroft.htm The Bancroft & District Mineral Collecting Guidebook may be purchased in the Mineral Capital Gift Shop in the "Old Station "in Bancroft or ordered and delivered through the mail. Or contact: Bancroft and District Chamber of Commerce Box 539, Bancroft, ON K0L 1C0 Tel:613-332-1513 Fax:613-332-2119 Email: chamber@commerce.bancroft.on.ca At 07:20 AM 11/24/2003, you wrote: >Hello All, > >One of our Club members is asking me a question that I thought some list >members might be able to answer: > >"My wife and I are taking a trip to Thunder Bay, Ontario next year and was >wondering if you know of any books or other references describing >collecting localities in the area. I'm interested in the areas around >Lake Superior, Thunder Bay, Minnesotta, and Michigan." > > > If you have any references, I'll forward them to him. > >Thanks! > >Richard Sittinger >Mineral of the Month Club --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Nov 24 09:47:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Jokela) Date: Mon Nov 24 09:47:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Membership renewal References: <001301c3b2af$3a7876a0$6c4e5d3f@t5k8i6> Message-ID: <004f01c3b2b3$b97134c0$4d04efd1@oemcomputer> Ann Sabina has covered the area, it's a government publication, a bit of work with google will lead you to a source. The amethyst mines are fun to poke around, they're about 40km south of T-Bay, right on the Trans-Canada Hwy. On the way there is the agate mine, but last report I heard said it was closed. Any rock shop in the area can give specific directions. There's not a whole lot else, really. For those into lapidary, abandoned gravel pits may contain red jasper, maybe agate if you're lucky. Check out http://www.ontariominerals.com for more information; contact info for the Thunder Bay club will be listed at canadianrockhound.ca. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr, tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The mineralogy of Ontario, Canada: http://www.ontariominerals.com -------------- Hello All, One of our Club members is asking me a question that I thought some list members might be able to answer: "My wife and I are taking a trip to Thunder Bay, Ontario next year and was wondering if you know of any books or other references describing collecting localities in the area. I'm interested in the areas around Lake Superior, Thunder Bay, Minnesotta, and Michigan." If you have any references, I'll forward them to him. Thanks! Richard Sittinger Mineral of the Month Club --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Nov 24 09:49:03 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Jokela) Date: Mon Nov 24 09:49:03 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ontario collecting References: <5.1.0.14.0.20031124075436.02377df0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <005401c3b2b4$01fe3440$4d04efd1@oemcomputer> Er, Bancroft is great all right, but it's about 1,000 km SE of Thunder Bay... Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr, tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The mineralogy of Ontario, Canada: http://www.ontariominerals.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: Sent: November 24, 2003 1:00 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Ontario collecting > We found Bancroft so wonderful the first time we went there in 1999 that we > went to a lot of effort to go again in 2000 and 2001. First trip: 2 days, > we said, "We've got to come back and stay longer." Second trip: 4 days, we > said, "This still wasn't enough time; we've got to stay longer." Third > trip: 6 days, we said, "You know, we've still just scratched the > surface!" I believe Bancroft is about a 3-hour drive from Toronto, and a > full day drive to Thunder Bay. The information below is copied from the > Web. The Guidebook from the Chamber of Commerce is excellent, showing > locations of over 30 collecting sites from mine dumps to river beds to road > cuts and caves, and listing minerals and where they can be found. Local > geology maps are also available at the Chamber, as well as permits to enter > those few sites that require a small entry fee. > > Aloha, Kitty > snip From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Nov 24 19:18:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Williams) Date: Mon Nov 24 19:18:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. References: <5.1.0.14.0.20031103180313.029e8650@mail.aloha.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20031118162311.02368210@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <00a101c3b302$97fa5de0$29d14fd1@Williams> Good job!!! I want to add something to think about. I was asked to speak to an elementary school in Central Ca. in September. This was a school that was classified as a school for "slow kids". The school had set aside the whole day for speakers and "show and tell" for all of the kids and teachers. The schedule called for the speakers being available all day for rotating groups of kids every 30 minutes. I was asked because they heard that I visit all classifications of schools and talk about Rocks, Minerals, and Elements--unlike previous speakers from Gem & Mineral clubs who only talk about rocks and how you can tumble and polish them and make jewelry,etc.--nothing about the differences between them. I jumped at the chance, even though I lived 160+ miles away. My wife went with me and she wanted to be the Fluorescent lady. I also took a bunch of minerals that fluoresce as well as those that do not--both thumbnails and larger specimens. The problem was, how to explain in 30 minutes or less, the difference between rocks, minerals and elements, so that even kids in the 1st grade would understand and still cover what was neccesary so that THEY would know the differences, as well as the teachers. My solution was 450 pieces of Granite. As the groups came into our area, my wife would tell each person to pick out a rock for their own and don't throw it at their freinds. Even the teachers and the aides had to take one. I was dressed just as I would be if I was on a field trip--complete with hardhat, backpack, picks, grungy clothes, Indiana Jones hat, and unshaven. The attendees all got a chanch to look at 37 different minerals, rocks and elements and I picked out certain ones to pass around--even the Gold, which I actually still had when we went home after 7 hours. It was worth more than you will ever know unless you do the same thing as I did when the kids would pass them around--especially when it was time for Galena. I went through my backpack and showed what was in there and why--they loved the toothbrush, especially when I told the that it wasn't to brush my teeth. I asked them all to holdup their "rock" and then look at the ones that the people next to them had and asked if theirs was exactly the same as anybody elses. They finally realized that none of them had one exactly like theirs. I then proceded to define a rock in terms that they would all understand and told them that Their Granite was a rock. Next, I talked about minerals and how they are they are made up of elements. On the board, I had 10 circles and called them atoms---nine of them had names of elements in them, one didn't. As the teachers came in, I had asked what their names were and wrote them done on a piece of paper. As I went to the circles, I told them what the chemical symbols meant and what elements they represented, then I said that If the last symbol represented Copper, it would be called Chalcanthite,but, if it represented an element called Thorium, it would be a New, unnamed mineral and it might evenually be called----either there teachers first name or last name with an "ite" after it---everybody enjoyed that comment. Once again, Iasked them to look at their Granite rock. I asked them if they could see the shiny black or brown things on their rock--I had made a special effoert to make sure that all specimens had lots of shiny spots and I told them that they were a mineral called Mica and that their rock now also had minerals on it. I then explained what an element was and said that since their rock had minerals, and minerals were made of elements, that THEY each had a rock, a mineral and some elements all on their own special rock that was different than anybody elses. Some of them wanted another specimen and I would let them pick out one more. Every one in the group now knew the difference between a rock, mineral and an element and as they left to go to another session with someone else, many of them asked if I would take them on a field trip to collect their own minerals. All I could say was, I wish I could,but, I bet their Mom and/or Dad would if they showed them their rocks and told them all about what they had learned. I also said that if they asked teacher where they could go when on a vacation, there teacher could send me an e-mail and I would recommend a place and tell them how to get there and what they could find and what it looked like. 23 teacher requests were sent to me and I advised on all of them. I have also, not only received a letter of appreciation from the Principal, but, from the School Board and many of the classes. It was a Wonderful day, and well worth the time. I didn't intend this to be so lengthy--but it was the Granites fault. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 7:58 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. > Hi again, List, > > I was called last night to substitute for a high school science teacher > today, so I took along a bunch of rocks and minerals and our UV lamp and a > Geiger counter, all packed carefully in a 5 gallon paint bucket! Here are > some of the things the kids found out my "bucket of dumb rocks" could > do: Magnetite picked up a paper clip. Ulexite transferred an image from > its underside to its surface. Autunite set the Geiger counter clicking > (just a little). Terlingua calcite fluoresced different colors under LW > and SW. Hackmanite showed tenebrescence. Some Franklin willemite > phosphoresced for several minutes. Yes, I was careful with my > demonstrations, and yes, I showed and told the students > more: triboluminescence, thermoluminescence, iridescence, double > refraction, a crystal that had "healed" itself, stalactites that grew down > and stalagmites that grew up, some minerals that can heal people or keep > them healthy, ones that can kill people or make them sick, ones that can > create weapons or generate power, or be used in makeup or to comfort > babies, and so on. > > Since I am a fine and performing arts person, not a scientist, I came armed > with copies of a list of books for the kids to find in the library, and > websites and topics to search on the computer, so if a kid asked a question > I felt I couldn't handle, I'd point to the list. And amazingly enough, not > one student asked about "metaphysical" powers! (That's almost as amazing > as my-husband-the-astronomer not having a single college student this fall > ask about astrology!) > > The classes were small enough that each student had a chance for a good > look at everything, and to examine some specimens closely. And at morning > recess and lunch, kids came by from other classes asking if they could also > see the "smart rocks." After school even some teachers, secretaries and > janitors came by! Finally, I heard one kid say to another, "I didn't know > rocks could be this cool!" > > Aloha, Kitty > > > At 06:05 PM 11/16/2003, you wrote: > > >Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > > > > > Hi List, > > > > > > I didn't hit the mute in time while watching the TV news tonight and caught > > > an ad for "Judge Judy" where she said to a man (plaintiff? accused? I'm not > > > sure): "You are dumb as a bucket of rocks." > > > > > > I give (volunteer) demonstrations at schools and have often used "dumb as a > > > rock" as a phrase to introduce the idea to kids' minds that rocks & > > > minerals really can "do" things, some of which are pretty smart and > > remarkable. > > > > > > So can you give Judge Judy examples of how a "bucket of rocks" might > > > contain some abilities or qualities that are not so dumb? > > > > > > Aloha, Kitty > > > > > >Everything people use is either grown or mined (some processing is > >assumed). Animals need plants, and plants do their own mining (with some > >energy help from the sun). Gardening is a form of mining. > > > >Mining is key to all human survival and activity. > > > >Rockhounding is the collection and study of rocks and minerals (the > >object/product of mining), how formed, where found, how obtained, and > >how processed. > > > >Rockhounding touches on everything we use or do. So can your 'dumb > >bucket of rocks' -- it just depends on what rocks you have collected. > > > >Aloha, > > > >Kreigh > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > >--- > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > >Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 10/16/2003 > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 10/16/2003 > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/plain (text body -- kept) > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Nov 24 19:30:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (TA Masters) Date: Mon Nov 24 19:30:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. References: <5.1.0.14.0.20031103180313.029e8650@mail.aloha.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20031118162311.02368210@mail.aloha.net> <00a101c3b302$97fa5de0$29d14fd1@Williams> Message-ID: <3FC2CD2B.4010504@cox.net> Jim, Great story. thank you very much. Teresa From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Nov 24 19:44:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (John Siebel) Date: Mon Nov 24 19:44:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. References: <5.1.0.14.0.20031103180313.029e8650@mail.aloha.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20031118162311.02368210@mail.aloha.net> <00a101c3b302$97fa5de0$29d14fd1@Williams> Message-ID: <001301c3b2f5$69996ca0$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> How very cool Jim! You're clearly a man who appreciates life and the cartoon that it is. But do tell us more about Fluorescent Lady! And, does the hardhat go over or under the Indiana Jones? You inspired some kids that day. Keep it up. John Santa, Idaho john@pandemoniumgraphics.com www.pandemoniumgraphics.com From: "Williams" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. > I was asked to speak to an elementary school in Central Ca. > I jumped at the chance, even though I lived 160+ miles away. My wife went > with me and she wanted to be the Fluorescent lady. > I was > dressed just as I would be if I was on a field trip--complete with hardhat, > backpack, picks, grungy clothes, Indiana Jones hat, and unshaven. > Jim From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Nov 24 21:06:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Nov 24 21:06:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. References: <5.1.0.14.0.20031103180313.029e8650@mail.aloha.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20031118162311.02368210@mail.aloha.net> <00a101c3b302$97fa5de0$29d14fd1@Williams> Message-ID: <3FC2E306.6A31@Tomaszewski.net> Williams wrote: > > Good job!!! > > I want to add something to think about. > > I was asked to speak to an elementary school in Central Ca. in I want to add 'Good job!!!' too. And I thank you for a couple ideas from your wonderful report that will help me with some classroom presentations in the near future. Kreigh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Nov 24 21:41:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Nov 24 21:41:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ontario collecting In-Reply-To: <005401c3b2b4$01fe3440$4d04efd1@oemcomputer> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20031124075436.02377df0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031124194547.02668cb0@mail.aloha.net> Yeah, well, I said it's a full day drive from Thunder Bay---a long one, but we've done it without much stress. And since they are planning well in advance, and depending on how much time they have available, maybe they might want to consider it, at least by checking out the sources I provided. Aloha , Kitty At 07:54 AM 11/24/2003, you wrote: >Er, Bancroft is great all right, but it's about 1,000 km SE of Thunder >Bay... > >Cheers, > >Tim Jokela Jr, tjokela@execulink.com >Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com >The mineralogy of Ontario, Canada: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" >To: >Sent: November 24, 2003 1:00 PM >Subject: [Rockhounds] Ontario collecting > > > > We found Bancroft so wonderful the first time we went there in 1999 that >we > > went to a lot of effort to go again in 2000 and 2001. First trip: 2 days, > > we said, "We've got to come back and stay longer." Second trip: 4 days, >we > > said, "This still wasn't enough time; we've got to stay longer." Third > > trip: 6 days, we said, "You know, we've still just scratched the > > surface!" I believe Bancroft is about a 3-hour drive from Toronto, and a > > full day drive to Thunder Bay. The information below is copied from the > > Web. The Guidebook from the Chamber of Commerce is excellent, showing > > locations of over 30 collecting sites from mine dumps to river beds to >road > > cuts and caves, and listing minerals and where they can be found. Local > > geology maps are also available at the Chamber, as well as permits to >enter > > those few sites that require a small entry fee. > > > > Aloha, Kitty > > >snip > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 25 03:02:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Nov 25 03:02:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. References: <5.1.0.14.0.20031103180313.029e8650@mail.aloha.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20031118162311.02368210@mail.aloha.net> <00a101c3b302$97fa5de0$29d14fd1@Williams> Message-ID: <002801c3b343$86f527a0$959f77d5@axel> Oh well, I'll jump in... just for laughs.... When I was about 15 years I was, as Saddam would put it, the absolute "grandmother" of any teachers' nightmare... As a gifted prankster I had managed to scare everybody out of their wits AGAIN during chemistry practice and the teacher got fed up with me. He said to me: "Listen you unsightly larva of something unspeakable, you don't seem to understand how much work it takes to prepare a lesson so that even the lowest forms of life in my class, that are seemingly put on the planet for the sole purpose of producing manure, can catch a glimpse of the intricate beauty of nature's laws". (Oh yes, quite colorful fellow he was). "Therefore I'll punish you in the most fitting and just way my cynical mind can device: by next week you will prepare a lesson of 1 hour about light and it's effects and give it before the class. Make it good or I will be your Nemesis in more ways than you will wish to count..." I knew the guy... he always meant what he said so I spent an hour or two contemplating, pondering, brooding and then collected what I needed. That much dreaded day I appeared in class, loaded like a mule... I had brought a small chemistry set, a blacklight lamp, my complete collection of fluorescent minerals (12 specimens at the time), an infrared lamp, sheet of black glass, a spray-flask and a 2 sheets of paper: 1 white and 1 black. The teacher, already frowning, sat down and I started my "lesson".... after one hour I had demonstrated the photochemical impact of long wave UV on a test tube with a silver chloride colloid, the difference in photo-electrical power between short and long wavelengths using blacklight and IR-lamp and a photo-cell.... In fact, I had been speaking for 75 min and meanwhile the math teacher had entered and sat down, obviously intrigued. When I noticed I was working overtime I apologized to the math teacher for stealing his time but he nodded to the chemistry teacher who said his first word in more than an hour: "continue or perish, mister Emmermann!" .... I did... for the next hour... and the next.... demonstrating the warming effect of IR light using an instrument that I borrowed from the physics lab... penetrating ability of IR-light by placing a black glass between lamp and instrument... I sprayed a solution of a double salt (I think it was ammonium iron(II) citrate) on a sheet of white paper which I covered after drying (in darkness) with some cut out figures in black paper. Then after letting the sun shine on it for some 15 minutes... a blueprint was developed (I think it was after rinsing the paper with water and spraying again with potassium hexacyanoferrate(II)... it's 36 years ago but I still recall it)... After 3 hours, the teacher stopped me and looked at me in a funny way... and gave me an A+ Now, from time to time, I do a speech for my club and other mineralogy or lapidary or fossil clubs and I still LOVE it ;-))))) Cheers Axel From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 25 07:05:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Horst Windisch) Date: Tue Nov 25 07:05:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. References: <5.1.0.14.0.20031103180313.029e8650@mail.aloha.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20031118162311.02368210@mail.aloha.net> <00a101c3b302$97fa5de0$29d14fd1@Williams> <002801c3b343$86f527a0$959f77d5@axel> Message-ID: <001201c3b364$9e0c17c0$c14027c4@horstspc> Hi Axel, I loved this one. ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT. Kind regards, Horst ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. > Oh well, I'll jump in... just for laughs.... > > When I was about 15 years I was, as Saddam would put it, the absolute > "grandmother" of any teachers' nightmare... > As a gifted prankster I had managed to scare everybody out of their wits > AGAIN during chemistry practice and the teacher got fed up with me. > He said to me: "Listen you unsightly larva of something unspeakable, you > don't seem to understand how much work it takes to prepare a lesson so that > even the lowest forms of life in my class, that are seemingly put on the > planet for the sole purpose of producing manure, can catch a glimpse of the > intricate beauty of nature's laws". (Oh yes, quite colorful fellow he was). > "Therefore I'll punish you in the most fitting and just way my cynical mind > can device: by next week you will prepare a lesson of 1 hour about light and > it's effects and give it before the class. Make it good or I will be your > Nemesis in more ways than you will wish to count..." > > I knew the guy... he always meant what he said so I spent an hour or two > contemplating, pondering, brooding and then collected what I needed. > That much dreaded day I appeared in class, loaded like a mule... I had > brought a small chemistry set, a blacklight lamp, my complete collection of > fluorescent minerals (12 specimens at the time), an infrared lamp, sheet of > black glass, a spray-flask and a 2 sheets of paper: 1 white and 1 black. > The teacher, already frowning, sat down and I started my "lesson".... after > one hour I had demonstrated the photochemical impact of long wave UV on a > test tube with a silver chloride colloid, the difference in photo-electrical > power between short and long wavelengths using blacklight and IR-lamp and a > photo-cell.... > In fact, I had been speaking for 75 min and meanwhile the math teacher had > entered and sat down, obviously intrigued. > When I noticed I was working overtime I apologized to the math teacher for > stealing his time but he nodded to the chemistry teacher who said his first > word in more than an hour: "continue or perish, mister Emmermann!" .... > I did... for the next hour... and the next.... demonstrating the warming > effect of IR light using an instrument that I borrowed from the physics > lab... penetrating ability of IR-light by placing a black glass between lamp > and instrument... > I sprayed a solution of a double salt (I think it was ammonium iron(II) > citrate) on a sheet of white paper which I covered after drying (in > darkness) with some cut out figures in black paper. Then after letting the > sun shine on it for some 15 minutes... a blueprint was developed (I think it > was after rinsing the paper with water and spraying again with potassium > hexacyanoferrate(II)... it's 36 years ago but I still recall it)... > > After 3 hours, the teacher stopped me and looked at me in a funny way... and > gave me an A+ > > Now, from time to time, I do a speech for my club and other mineralogy or > lapidary or fossil clubs and I still LOVE it ;-))))) > > Cheers > > Axel > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 25 07:07:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Tue Nov 25 07:07:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. Message-ID: It appears your teacher was also something of a psychologist as well. You ended up teaching an interesting lesson, and therefore having to learn the subject well enough to teach it. And you remember it decades later. My hat is off to your teacher. I had a high school chemistry teacher who infused a light flash, explosion or other phenomenal demonstration of the wonder of chemistry into every class lecture. I credit him, or curse him (depending on how things are going at any particular point in time) with the fact that I chose to become a Chemical Engineer. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 25 08:37:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Tue Nov 25 08:37:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pipestone / Catlinite Message-ID: Ran across your Old message while looking for more info on this stone. THe Rock store in Fortuna California has quite a bit if you are still looking. ============================== Hello all Does anyone know where I can get some Alborine and/or Catlinite? I have a friend that lives in London ON that's looking for some, suitable for carving. Cheers Jim Ebsary From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 25 09:26:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Nov 25 09:26:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. In-Reply-To: <002801c3b343$86f527a0$959f77d5@axel> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20031103180313.029e8650@mail.aloha.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20031118162311.02368210@mail.aloha.net> <00a101c3b302$97fa5de0$29d14fd1@Williams> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031125073104.0237ed60@mail.aloha.net> OK Axel, you really are a heroic sort! Great story. And Bill and I have sent you a little piece of Hawaii as a token of appreciation for being a marplot for the moonrock thieves. Aloha, Kitty At 01:01 AM 11/25/2003, you wrote: >Oh well, I'll jump in... just for laughs.... > >When I was about 15 years I was, as Saddam would put it, the absolute >"grandmother" of any teachers' nightmare... > >....After 3 hours, the teacher stopped me and looked at me in a funny >way... and >gave me an A+ > >Now, from time to time, I do a speech for my club and other mineralogy or >lapidary or fossil clubs and I still LOVE it ;-))))) > >Cheers > >Axel --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 25 10:45:11 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Rik Dillen) Date: Tue Nov 25 10:45:11 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20031125073104.0237ed60@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <000201c3b383$ecba0ed0$e7a1f151@maxdata> *And Bill and I have sent you a little piece of Hawaii as a token of appreciation for being a marplot for the moonrock thieves. * *Aloha, Kitty * >>>>> Axel, just wanted to let you know that they continuously produce new Hawaii, in order to be able until the end of times to reward people who help arresting moon rock thieves... The plant where they produce those pieces is called Pu'u O'o :>)) Rik From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 25 11:25:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Dri) Date: Tue Nov 25 11:25:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Plastic Specimen Boxs Message-ID: <00e601c3b389$cf975a00$6701a8c0@dslverizon.net> Hi all: I am looking for some good sources for Plastic Single-Specimen boxes. Might some of you have a good supplier? Dri-Anna WA - USA From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 25 11:48:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Tue Nov 25 11:48:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Plastic Specimen Boxs In-Reply-To: <00e601c3b389$cf975a00$6701a8c0@dslverizon.net> Message-ID: Hi Dri-Anna, The two company's that I know about are: Althor Products - http://www.thomasregister.com/olc/althor/ David Shannon Minerals - (480) 985-0557 - Mesa, AZ USA I've always gotten mine from David Shannon Minerals and they are always good products. Regards, Bob Loeffler :) Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Dri Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 12:25 PM To: Rockhounds Subject: [Rockhounds] Plastic Specimen Boxs Hi all: I am looking for some good sources for Plastic Single-Specimen boxes. Might some of you have a good supplier? Dri-Anna WA - USA _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 25 13:52:03 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Gary Brown) Date: Tue Nov 25 13:52:03 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Travelling to UK In-Reply-To: <002801c3b343$86f527a0$959f77d5@axel> Message-ID: <00f901c3b39e$440e2c10$6701a8c0@moose> Hi All... Looks like I'll be in London from the 17th of December through the 22nd of December. Part business (well... On spec as of now!) part fun. A couple of questions: - anyone interested in doing some trades for Franklin NJ material whilst I'm in the UK? - if staying with my friend in London falls through, and suggestions for a "cheap" but nice place to stay in London? Tanx all... Gary Brown Catspaw Minerals From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 25 17:51:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Dri) Date: Tue Nov 25 17:51:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Plastic Specimen Boxs References: Message-ID: <002401c3b3bf$d0ae11a0$6701a8c0@dslverizon.net> Thank you Bob: Althor has some decent prices. All of the sites I found via Google charge much more than Althor does. Does David Shannon Minerals perhaps have a website or email address? Dri-Anna WA - USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Loeffler" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 11:47 Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Plastic Specimen Boxs > Hi Dri-Anna, > > The two company's that I know about are: > > Althor Products - http://www.thomasregister.com/olc/althor/ > David Shannon Minerals - (480) 985-0557 - Mesa, AZ USA > > I've always gotten mine from David Shannon Minerals and they are always good > products. > > Regards, > > Bob Loeffler :) > Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster > North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) > http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ > and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) > > Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: > http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ > > >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 25 19:37:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Nov 25 19:37:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Plastic Specimen Boxs References: <00e601c3b389$cf975a00$6701a8c0@dslverizon.net> Message-ID: <3FC41FB6.222@Tomaszewski.net> Dri wrote: > > Hi all: > I am looking for some good sources for Plastic Single-Specimen boxes. Might > some of you have a good supplier? > > Dri-Anna > WA - USA Check out the 'catalog' at CR-Scientific for 1" and 2" 'perky' boxes at www.crscientific.com Arizona Mineral Company has the small 'perky' boxes and mineral tack at www.arizonaminerals.com AMAC Plastics has some boxes for larger sizes but you have to order quantity at www.amacbox.com From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 25 20:58:12 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (herwig pelckmans) Date: Tue Nov 25 20:58:12 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Plastic Specimen Boxs References: <002401c3b3bf$d0ae11a0$6701a8c0@dslverizon.net> Message-ID: <007a01c3b3d7$3d20b4c0$6a7277d5@pandora.be> > Does David Shannon Minerals perhaps have a website or email address? > Dri-Anna No, he does not. You have to write or call him the old fashioned way... Cheers, Herwig Herwig Pelckmans Worldwide Mineral Collector Cardijnstraat 12 B-3530 Helchteren Belgium Europe http://www.xlizd.com From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Nov 25 22:49:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Horst Windisch) Date: Tue Nov 25 22:49:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Plastic Specimen Boxs References: <00e601c3b389$cf975a00$6701a8c0@dslverizon.net> Message-ID: <009401c3b3e8$a8484900$793f27c4@horstspc> Hi Dri, You might try and obtaining these from a supplier in Europe - contact Renate Grosch, e-mail - stereo-optik-grosch@web.de. They have very competitive prices and I have been ordering from them the last 30 years. Postage and customs duty may have an influence on final price, but with me residing in South Africa, and having to pay postage from any other source in the world, it pays me to order from them instead of ordering from the USA (price-wise). Horst ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dri" To: "Rockhounds" Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 9:24 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Plastic Specimen Boxs > Hi all: > I am looking for some good sources for Plastic Single-Specimen boxes. Might > some of you have a good supplier? > > > Dri-Anna > WA - USA > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 26 00:49:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Nov 26 00:49:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. References: <5.1.0.14.0.20031103180313.029e8650@mail.aloha.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20031118162311.02368210@mail.aloha.net> <00a101c3b302$97fa5de0$29d14fd1@Williams> <002801c3b343$86f527a0$959f77d5@axel> <001201c3b364$9e0c17c0$c14027c4@horstspc> Message-ID: <002f01c3b3fa$07d6cf20$959f77d5@axel> Hi Horst, Thank you.... I'll send you the URL of my fanclub off list (just kidding) ;-))))) I saw you on a big projection screen just two weeks ago when a mutual acquaintance of ours gave his lecture about South Africa and Namibia before the MKA... His name is Paul Van de Velde. Shall I give him your regards? Darn, this planet is getting smaller every day ;-))))) Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Horst Windisch" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 12:43 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. > Hi Axel, > > I loved this one. ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT. > > Kind regards, > Horst > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Axel Emmermann" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 1:01 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. > > > > Oh well, I'll jump in... just for laughs.... > > > > When I was about 15 years I was, as Saddam would put it, the absolute > > "grandmother" of any teachers' nightmare... > > As a gifted prankster I had managed to scare everybody out of their wits > > AGAIN during chemistry practice and the teacher got fed up with me. > > He said to me: "Listen you unsightly larva of something unspeakable, you > > don't seem to understand how much work it takes to prepare a lesson so > that > > even the lowest forms of life in my class, that are seemingly put on the > > planet for the sole purpose of producing manure, can catch a glimpse of > the > > intricate beauty of nature's laws". (Oh yes, quite colorful fellow he > was). > > "Therefore I'll punish you in the most fitting and just way my cynical > mind > > can device: by next week you will prepare a lesson of 1 hour about light > and > > it's effects and give it before the class. Make it good or I will be your > > Nemesis in more ways than you will wish to count..." > > > > I knew the guy... he always meant what he said so I spent an hour or two > > contemplating, pondering, brooding and then collected what I needed. > > That much dreaded day I appeared in class, loaded like a mule... I had > > brought a small chemistry set, a blacklight lamp, my complete collection > of > > fluorescent minerals (12 specimens at the time), an infrared lamp, sheet > of > > black glass, a spray-flask and a 2 sheets of paper: 1 white and 1 black. > > The teacher, already frowning, sat down and I started my "lesson".... > after > > one hour I had demonstrated the photochemical impact of long wave UV on a > > test tube with a silver chloride colloid, the difference in > photo-electrical > > power between short and long wavelengths using blacklight and IR-lamp and > a > > photo-cell.... > > In fact, I had been speaking for 75 min and meanwhile the math teacher had > > entered and sat down, obviously intrigued. > > When I noticed I was working overtime I apologized to the math teacher for > > stealing his time but he nodded to the chemistry teacher who said his > first > > word in more than an hour: "continue or perish, mister Emmermann!" .... > > I did... for the next hour... and the next.... demonstrating the warming > > effect of IR light using an instrument that I borrowed from the physics > > lab... penetrating ability of IR-light by placing a black glass between > lamp > > and instrument... > > I sprayed a solution of a double salt (I think it was ammonium iron(II) > > citrate) on a sheet of white paper which I covered after drying (in > > darkness) with some cut out figures in black paper. Then after letting the > > sun shine on it for some 15 minutes... a blueprint was developed (I think > it > > was after rinsing the paper with water and spraying again with potassium > > hexacyanoferrate(II)... it's 36 years ago but I still recall it)... > > > > After 3 hours, the teacher stopped me and looked at me in a funny way... > and > > gave me an A+ > > > > Now, from time to time, I do a speech for my club and other mineralogy or > > lapidary or fossil clubs and I still LOVE it ;-))))) > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 26 01:05:06 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Nov 26 01:05:06 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. References: <5.1.0.14.0.20031103180313.029e8650@mail.aloha.net><5.1.0.14.0.20031118162311.02368210@mail.aloha.net><00a101c3b302$97fa5de0$29d14fd1@Williams> <5.1.0.14.0.20031125073104.0237ed60@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <003901c3b3fc$5d2963f0$959f77d5@axel> Hi Kitty & Bill Amazing timing but that piece of Hawaii just got here yesterday! Rare and fluorescent indeed, thank you so much! I also love the card ;-))) I'll think about the theory about the genesis of the calcite... worth a discussion, that for sure! We'll get back on that in a few days ;-))) When I think of it.... looking at my collection; I already got chunks of many States of the US. I should try to get a specimen of every state... Then I can lay them out in the right order on the floor and play president with my daughter's Ken & Barbie (LOL). BTW: I never saw Nebraska, Florida, and some other states on a mineral label... are there states with NO minerals at all? Thanks again Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 6:41 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. OK Axel, you really are a heroic sort! Great story. And Bill and I have sent you a little piece of Hawaii as a token of appreciation for being a marplot for the moonrock thieves. Aloha, Kitty At 01:01 AM 11/25/2003, you wrote: >Oh well, I'll jump in... just for laughs.... > >When I was about 15 years I was, as Saddam would put it, the absolute >"grandmother" of any teachers' nightmare... > >....After 3 hours, the teacher stopped me and looked at me in a funny >way... and >gave me an A+ > >Now, from time to time, I do a speech for my club and other mineralogy or >lapidary or fossil clubs and I still LOVE it ;-))))) > >Cheers > >Axel --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 26 01:13:08 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Nov 26 01:13:08 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] ...and now for a totally different topic.. References: <000201c3b383$ecba0ed0$e7a1f151@maxdata> Message-ID: <003f01c3b3fd$746e0150$959f77d5@axel> > >>>>> Axel, just wanted to let you know that they continuously produce new Hawaii, in order to be able until the end of times to > reward people who help arresting moon rock thieves... The plant where they produce those pieces is called Pu'u O'o :>)) > Thank you Rik! You just saved me a guilt-trip (ROFL).... I was having nightmares about Kitty and Bill (and the rest of the population) having to live in a pole-hut after giving away their last piece of Hawaii. (Very ROFL... slightly purple in the face) Axel From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 26 13:15:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Nov 26 13:15:02 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rotor clouds Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031125180536.029a0010@mail.aloha.net> Hi List, This isn't about rocks, but it is science, and involves mountains. (Note: I usually try to give measurements in metric, but I may not succeed all the time in this report.) Tuesday morning Bill and I awoke to an astonishing sight in the sky. At dawn (6:30am) there was one huge rotor cloud eastward and obviously downwind from Mauna Kea (which is 14,000 ft/ 42,000 m. high). The first I noticed anything strange was when I saw an orange glow on the tile floor of the lanai (deck) outside our bedroom which faces to the west. With the sun coming up on the opposite side of the house, I wondered where this glow could be coming from. I looked out at the mountain and saw four orange/white dots which I recognized as sunrise light reflecting off some of the telescope domes there. Then I stepped out to get a better look at the sky and saw an enormous cloud which was glowing orange on its edges and reflecting that color onto our tile. The underside of the cloud, however, was dark gray---almost black---and patterned with lines forming a spiral. I expected to hear deep threatening organ music! I also thought of the movie "Independence Day" with the image of an alien spaceship descending. To my left---southward---was a smaller and similar cloud closer to Mauna Loa. I ran to tell Bill (who had gotten up before dawn---the time his brain works best---to work on research) and he grabbed his camera but found it was out of film, ran back in the house to put in a new role, and got back outside to get a few shots but without the orange color. Meanwhile I had grabbed my digital camera, but I also was too late to get very much of the color. We had already planned to drive to the west side of the island to Kona for shopping for Thanksgiving dinner supplies, so we left at 9am and drove around the north route. That meant that we went up the east coast of the island continuing north and then west, then gradually southwest and finally south so we made a semicircle around the north side of Mauna Kea. We usually divide driving so one of us takes the 2-hour duty one way, and the other does the return. It was my turn to drive over, and I had to concentrate to make sure I was paying proper attention to the road because the huge clouds were still there---3 hours later---and were spectacular! There was also a smaller rotor cloud to the north that seemed to act like a baby trying to keep in close touch by reaching a cloudy tendril towards its "mother." As we proceeded around the north end of the island the clouds looked (at our left) like great bull-nosed marine mammals, heads toward the east, tails streaming west. When we reached the west coast and were heading south, we were able to see the clouds head on, and at that point they had the true appearance of rotor clouds, which is like a disc---or a soft-edged can of tuna---and suggests even more an alien space ship. The one closest to Mauna Kea was the most enormous---Bill thinks it must have been 10 miles (15 km?) wide and definitely higher than the mountain---looked like an uneven stack of fuzzy pancakes, tilted slightly to the north. That tilt gave it an especially ominous appearance, like a space ship taking a final turn to zoom in for attack! The smaller one we had originally seen close to Mauna Loa at 6:30 am, was now another large fuzzy pancake stack, with several white and dark gray layers. And the "baby" was by now nearly half as large as its "mother." The rest of the sky showed a great assortment of cloud types: there was a thick layer of puffy cumulous over each of the mountains (Mauna Kea, Mauna Loa, Hualalai, Kohala, and also Hale'akala visible across the channel on Maui), high cirrus in mare's tail form showed in different directions at different altitudes, there were a few lenticular clouds, and near the ocean it was raining here and there. The Hawaii Tribune Herald had a front page photo of the largest cloud this morning (it may appear on http://www.hilohawaiitribune.com/ later today or tomorrow; right now it still shows yesterdays big story which was cleaning up after record surf covered Bayfront Highway with debris). Various news sources say that yesterday winds gusted to 80 mph with wind chill to -20 degrees f. on the mountain summits. They say there is probably snow to as much as five feet deep on Mauna Kea and possibly Mauna Loa also, but no one has been able to get up to either location to look because the roads are too icy. The newspaper says the clouds, "are called lenticular or mountain-wave clouds," but my-husband-the-astronomer says neither of those terms is correct (nor are they synonymous); they are indeed rotor clouds showing clear vortex lines. I've tried to find some account---especially pictures---on the Internet but have not been able to yet. If our pictures turn out to be any good I'll ask Kreigh if he would be willing to post them. Aloha, and Happy Thanksgiving to all those who celebrate this holiday. Kitty --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 26 13:42:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Wed Nov 26 13:42:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rotor clouds In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20031125180536.029a0010@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: Hi Kitty, That is a very nice account of what you saw. What is your definition of a rotor cloud? I've never heard of it, but I'm not a meteorologist. Is it only associated with volcanos? Is it any cloud with a swirling vortex, like a tornado or funnel cloud? I would love to see a picture of it, even if it doesn't have the orange edges that you talked about. Thanks, Bob Loeffler :) Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill Heacox Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 2:35 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Rotor clouds Hi List, This isn't about rocks, but it is science, and involves mountains. (Note: I usually try to give measurements in metric, but I may not succeed all the time in this report.) Tuesday morning Bill and I awoke to an astonishing sight in the sky. At dawn (6:30am) there was one huge rotor cloud eastward and obviously downwind from Mauna Kea (which is 14,000 ft/ 42,000 m. high). The first I noticed anything strange was when I saw an orange glow on the tile floor of the lanai (deck) outside our bedroom which faces to the west. With the sun coming up on the opposite side of the house, I wondered where this glow could be coming from. I looked out at the mountain and saw four orange/white dots which I recognized as sunrise light reflecting off some of the telescope domes there. Then I stepped out to get a better look at the sky and saw an enormous cloud which was glowing orange on its edges and reflecting that color onto our tile. The underside of the cloud, however, was dark gray---almost black---and patterned with lines forming a spiral. I expected to hear deep threatening organ music! I also thought of the movie "Independence Day" with the image of an alien spaceship descending. To my left---southward---was a smaller and similar cloud closer to Mauna Loa. I ran to tell Bill (who had gotten up before dawn---the time his brain works best---to work on research) and he grabbed his camera but found it was out of film, ran back in the house to put in a new role, and got back outside to get a few shots but without the orange color. Meanwhile I had grabbed my digital camera, but I also was too late to get very much of the color. We had already planned to drive to the west side of the island to Kona for shopping for Thanksgiving dinner supplies, so we left at 9am and drove around the north route. That meant that we went up the east coast of the island continuing north and then west, then gradually southwest and finally south so we made a semicircle around the north side of Mauna Kea. We usually divide driving so one of us takes the 2-hour duty one way, and the other does the return. It was my turn to drive over, and I had to concentrate to make sure I was paying proper attention to the road because the huge clouds were still there---3 hours later---and were spectacular! There was also a smaller rotor cloud to the north that seemed to act like a baby trying to keep in close touch by reaching a cloudy tendril towards its "mother." As we proceeded around the north end of the island the clouds looked (at our left) like great bull-nosed marine mammals, heads toward the east, tails streaming west. When we reached the west coast and were heading south, we were able to see the clouds head on, and at that point they had the true appearance of rotor clouds, which is like a disc---or a soft-edged can of tuna---and suggests even more an alien space ship. The one closest to Mauna Kea was the most enormous---Bill thinks it must have been 10 miles (15 km?) wide and definitely higher than the mountain---looked like an uneven stack of fuzzy pancakes, tilted slightly to the north. That tilt gave it an especially ominous appearance, like a space ship taking a final turn to zoom in for attack! The smaller one we had originally seen close to Mauna Loa at 6:30 am, was now another large fuzzy pancake stack, with several white and dark gray layers. And the "baby" was by now nearly half as large as its "mother." The rest of the sky showed a great assortment of cloud types: there was a thick layer of puffy cumulous over each of the mountains (Mauna Kea, Mauna Loa, Hualalai, Kohala, and also Hale'akala visible across the channel on Maui), high cirrus in mare's tail form showed in different directions at different altitudes, there were a few lenticular clouds, and near the ocean it was raining here and there. The Hawaii Tribune Herald had a front page photo of the largest cloud this morning (it may appear on http://www.hilohawaiitribune.com/ later today or tomorrow; right now it still shows yesterdays big story which was cleaning up after record surf covered Bayfront Highway with debris). Various news sources say that yesterday winds gusted to 80 mph with wind chill to -20 degrees f. on the mountain summits. They say there is probably snow to as much as five feet deep on Mauna Kea and possibly Mauna Loa also, but no one has been able to get up to either location to look because the roads are too icy. The newspaper says the clouds, "are called lenticular or mountain-wave clouds," but my-husband-the-astronomer says neither of those terms is correct (nor are they synonymous); they are indeed rotor clouds showing clear vortex lines. I've tried to find some account---especially pictures---on the Internet but have not been able to yet. If our pictures turn out to be any good I'll ask Kreigh if he would be willing to post them. Aloha, and Happy Thanksgiving to all those who celebrate this holiday. Kitty --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 26 14:29:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Nov 26 14:29:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rotor clouds References: Message-ID: <3FC528F4.32E7@Tomaszewski.net> You can find a picture of a rotor cloud at http://www.inclouds.com/Wx/clouds2.html -- it is the third one in the first row of pictures. Bob Loeffler wrote: > > Hi Kitty, > > That is a very nice account of what you saw. What is your definition of a > rotor cloud? I've never heard of it, but I'm not a meteorologist. Is it > only associated with volcanos? Is it any cloud with a swirling vortex, like > a tornado or funnel cloud? I would love to see a picture of it, even if it > doesn't have the orange edges that you talked about. > > Thanks, > > Bob Loeffler :) > Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster > North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) > http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ > and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) > > Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: > http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill > Heacox > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 2:35 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Rotor clouds > > Hi List, > > This isn't about rocks, but it is science, and involves mountains. (Note: I > usually try to give measurements in metric, but I may not succeed all the > time in this report.) > > Tuesday morning Bill and I awoke to an astonishing sight in the sky. At > dawn (6:30am) there was one huge rotor cloud eastward and obviously > downwind from Mauna Kea (which is 14,000 ft/ 42,000 m. high). The first I > noticed anything strange was when I saw an orange glow on the tile floor of > the lanai (deck) outside our bedroom which faces to the west. With the sun > coming up on the opposite side of the house, I wondered where this glow > could be coming from. I looked out at the mountain and saw four > orange/white dots which I recognized as sunrise light reflecting off some > of the telescope domes there. Then I stepped out to get a better look at > the sky and saw an enormous cloud which was glowing orange on its edges and > reflecting that color onto our tile. The underside of the cloud, however, > was dark gray---almost black---and patterned with lines forming a > spiral. I expected to hear deep threatening organ music! I also thought > of the movie "Independence Day" with the image of an alien spaceship > descending. To my left---southward---was a smaller and similar cloud > closer to Mauna Loa. I ran to tell Bill (who had gotten up before > dawn---the time his brain works best---to work on research) and he grabbed > his camera but found it was out of film, ran back in the house to put in a > new role, and got back outside to get a few shots but without the orange > color. Meanwhile I had grabbed my digital camera, but I also was too late > to get very much of the color. > > We had already planned to drive to the west side of the island to Kona for > shopping for Thanksgiving dinner supplies, so we left at 9am and drove > around the north route. That meant that we went up the east coast of the > island continuing north and then west, then gradually southwest and finally > south so we made a semicircle around the north side of Mauna Kea. We > usually divide driving so one of us takes the 2-hour duty one way, and the > other does the return. It was my turn to drive over, and I had to > concentrate to make sure I was paying proper attention to the road because > the huge clouds were still there---3 hours later---and were > spectacular! There was also a smaller rotor cloud to the north that seemed > to act like a baby trying to keep in close touch by reaching a cloudy > tendril towards its "mother." As we proceeded around the north end of the > island the clouds looked (at our left) like great bull-nosed marine > mammals, heads toward the east, tails streaming west. > > When we reached the west coast and were heading south, we were able to see > the clouds head on, and at that point they had the true appearance of rotor > clouds, which is like a disc---or a soft-edged can of tuna---and suggests > even more an alien space ship. The one closest to Mauna Kea was the most > enormous---Bill thinks it must have been 10 miles (15 km?) wide and > definitely higher than the mountain---looked like an uneven stack of fuzzy > pancakes, tilted slightly to the north. That tilt gave it an especially > ominous appearance, like a space ship taking a final turn to zoom in for > attack! The smaller one we had originally seen close to Mauna Loa at 6:30 > am, was now another large fuzzy pancake stack, with several white and dark > gray layers. And the "baby" was by now nearly half as large as its > "mother." The rest of the sky showed a great assortment of cloud > types: there was a thick layer of puffy cumulous over each of the > mountains (Mauna Kea, Mauna Loa, Hualalai, Kohala, and also Hale'akala > visible across the channel on Maui), high cirrus in mare's tail form showed > in different directions at different altitudes, there were a few lenticular > clouds, and near the ocean it was raining here and there. > > The Hawaii Tribune Herald had a front page photo of the largest cloud this > morning (it may appear on http://www.hilohawaiitribune.com/ later today > or tomorrow; right now it still shows yesterdays big story which was > cleaning up after record surf covered Bayfront Highway with > debris). Various news sources say that yesterday winds gusted to 80 mph > with wind chill to -20 degrees f. on the mountain summits. They say there > is probably snow to as much as five feet deep on Mauna Kea and possibly > Mauna Loa also, but no one has been able to get up to either location to > look because the roads are too icy. The newspaper says the clouds, "are > called lenticular or mountain-wave clouds," but my-husband-the-astronomer > says neither of those terms is correct (nor are they synonymous); they are > indeed rotor clouds showing clear vortex lines. > > I've tried to find some account---especially pictures---on the Internet but > have not been able to yet. If our pictures turn out to be any good I'll > ask Kreigh if he would be willing to post them. > > Aloha, and Happy Thanksgiving to all those who celebrate this holiday. > > Kitty > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/2003 > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/plain (text body -- kept) > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 26 15:08:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Wed Nov 26 15:08:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rotor clouds In-Reply-To: <3FC528F4.32E7@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Thanks Kreigh. We often see lenticular clouds like that here in Denver, but that one is extremely long. The lenticular clouds are caused by very strong winds, but Kitty talked about a vortex, so Bill-the-astronomer is probably correct that they aren't lenticular clouds. I do see a little "rolling" or "vortex" in the cloud near the left side of that image. I bet I've seen these rotor clouds before, but just thought that they were thin lenticular clouds. When I was digging for barite up at the Stoneham, CO locality (Weld County) a few years ago, I saw some mammatus clouds that were much more beautiful than the ones in the middle picture in the second row on that website. The cloud was huge and gray, and the sun was low but not setting yet, so each of the little mammatus clouds were very distinct and looked like perfect little spheres (ok, half-spheres). It was the first time I had ever seen it, so it was very eery. The friend with me took several pictures but I have no idea where they went to. :-( Thanks again! Bob Loeffler :) Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Kreigh Tomaszewski Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 3:38 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rotor clouds You can find a picture of a rotor cloud at http://www.inclouds.com/Wx/clouds2.html -- it is the third one in the first row of pictures. Bob Loeffler wrote: > > Hi Kitty, > > That is a very nice account of what you saw. What is your definition of a > rotor cloud? I've never heard of it, but I'm not a meteorologist. Is it > only associated with volcanos? Is it any cloud with a swirling vortex, like > a tornado or funnel cloud? I would love to see a picture of it, even if it > doesn't have the orange edges that you talked about. > > Thanks, > > Bob Loeffler :) > Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster > North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) > http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ > and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) > > Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: > http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill > Heacox > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 2:35 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Rotor clouds > > Hi List, > > This isn't about rocks, but it is science, and involves mountains. (Note: I > usually try to give measurements in metric, but I may not succeed all the > time in this report.) > > Tuesday morning Bill and I awoke to an astonishing sight in the sky. At > dawn (6:30am) there was one huge rotor cloud eastward and obviously > downwind from Mauna Kea (which is 14,000 ft/ 42,000 m. high). The first I > noticed anything strange was when I saw an orange glow on the tile floor of > the lanai (deck) outside our bedroom which faces to the west. With the sun > coming up on the opposite side of the house, I wondered where this glow > could be coming from. I looked out at the mountain and saw four > orange/white dots which I recognized as sunrise light reflecting off some > of the telescope domes there. Then I stepped out to get a better look at > the sky and saw an enormous cloud which was glowing orange on its edges and > reflecting that color onto our tile. The underside of the cloud, however, > was dark gray---almost black---and patterned with lines forming a > spiral. I expected to hear deep threatening organ music! I also thought > of the movie "Independence Day" with the image of an alien spaceship > descending. To my left---southward---was a smaller and similar cloud > closer to Mauna Loa. I ran to tell Bill (who had gotten up before > dawn---the time his brain works best---to work on research) and he grabbed > his camera but found it was out of film, ran back in the house to put in a > new role, and got back outside to get a few shots but without the orange > color. Meanwhile I had grabbed my digital camera, but I also was too late > to get very much of the color. > > We had already planned to drive to the west side of the island to Kona for > shopping for Thanksgiving dinner supplies, so we left at 9am and drove > around the north route. That meant that we went up the east coast of the > island continuing north and then west, then gradually southwest and finally > south so we made a semicircle around the north side of Mauna Kea. We > usually divide driving so one of us takes the 2-hour duty one way, and the > other does the return. It was my turn to drive over, and I had to > concentrate to make sure I was paying proper attention to the road because > the huge clouds were still there---3 hours later---and were > spectacular! There was also a smaller rotor cloud to the north that seemed > to act like a baby trying to keep in close touch by reaching a cloudy > tendril towards its "mother." As we proceeded around the north end of the > island the clouds looked (at our left) like great bull-nosed marine > mammals, heads toward the east, tails streaming west. > > When we reached the west coast and were heading south, we were able to see > the clouds head on, and at that point they had the true appearance of rotor > clouds, which is like a disc---or a soft-edged can of tuna---and suggests > even more an alien space ship. The one closest to Mauna Kea was the most > enormous---Bill thinks it must have been 10 miles (15 km?) wide and > definitely higher than the mountain---looked like an uneven stack of fuzzy > pancakes, tilted slightly to the north. That tilt gave it an especially > ominous appearance, like a space ship taking a final turn to zoom in for > attack! The smaller one we had originally seen close to Mauna Loa at 6:30 > am, was now another large fuzzy pancake stack, with several white and dark > gray layers. And the "baby" was by now nearly half as large as its > "mother." The rest of the sky showed a great assortment of cloud > types: there was a thick layer of puffy cumulous over each of the > mountains (Mauna Kea, Mauna Loa, Hualalai, Kohala, and also Hale'akala > visible across the channel on Maui), high cirrus in mare's tail form showed > in different directions at different altitudes, there were a few lenticular > clouds, and near the ocean it was raining here and there. > > The Hawaii Tribune Herald had a front page photo of the largest cloud this > morning (it may appear on http://www.hilohawaiitribune.com/ later today > or tomorrow; right now it still shows yesterdays big story which was > cleaning up after record surf covered Bayfront Highway with > debris). Various news sources say that yesterday winds gusted to 80 mph > with wind chill to -20 degrees f. on the mountain summits. They say there > is probably snow to as much as five feet deep on Mauna Kea and possibly > Mauna Loa also, but no one has been able to get up to either location to > look because the roads are too icy. The newspaper says the clouds, "are > called lenticular or mountain-wave clouds," but my-husband-the-astronomer > says neither of those terms is correct (nor are they synonymous); they are > indeed rotor clouds showing clear vortex lines. > > I've tried to find some account---especially pictures---on the Internet but > have not been able to yet. If our pictures turn out to be any good I'll > ask Kreigh if he would be willing to post them. > > Aloha, and Happy Thanksgiving to all those who celebrate this holiday. > > Kitty > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/2003 > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/plain (text body -- kept) > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 26 17:14:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (John Siebel) Date: Wed Nov 26 17:14:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rotor clouds References: <5.1.0.14.0.20031125180536.029a0010@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <002201c3b472$c1606fa0$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Thanks for the report Kitty! It really sounds spectacular and reminded me of seeing the pinwheel of northern lights on 10/29/03 when we had the big solar storm. Julie stayed up all night working and woke me at midnight to see the northern lights. The wind was brutal but the sky was clear and the whole northern horizon was lit up like big city pollution (we live in the mountains of northern Idaho - nearest town is 20 miles to the west and was closed at the time). As we stared up(with the wind whistling up the crack of my longjohns) a pinwheel formed straight above us near the Pleiades, sending streaks of red and green flashing from the locus. At least Julie tells me they were red and green as I have developed color blindness. But I believe her as I saw the same thing about 35 years ago in Ontario, Canada, and that one rotated with a meteor shower shooting through it. Huge sheets of light formed then dissolved right down to the southern horizon. Very cool. Does Bill (or other list members) know the technical term for this phenomenon? I've always referred to it as a pinwheel. Thanks again, John Siebel Santa, Idaho john@pandemoniumgraphics.com www.pandemoniumgraphics.com From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 26 17:45:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Nov 26 17:45:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rotor clouds In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20031125180536.029a0010@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031126152332.02992430@mail.aloha.net> Hi, Bill-the-astronomer is now admitting that he is not Bill-the-meteorologist, and that the clouds we saw must indeed have been altocumulus lenticular. The description from the following neat website: http://www.inclouds.com/Wx/clouds2.html sounds very much like what I wrote, complete with reference to stacked pancakes and alien ships. [a type of wave cloud called altocumulus lenticular which have been mistaken for UFOs in the past. They often look like a stack of pancakes or plates and are created by moist air flowing over mountains.] The confusing part was that on the east side the clouds trailed out like tails, and only looked like pancakes from the west. As a former smoke jumper and Navy Air navigator Bill describes such clouds (rotor as well as lenticular) as "God's favorite method of plucking wings off aircraft." Aloha, Kitty At 11:41 AM 11/26/2003, you wrote: >Hi Kitty, > >That is a very nice account of what you saw. What is your definition of a >rotor cloud? I've never heard of it, but I'm not a meteorologist. Is it >only associated with volcanos? Is it any cloud with a swirling vortex, like >a tornado or funnel cloud? I would love to see a picture of it, even if it >doesn't have the orange edges that you talked about. > >Thanks, > >Bob Loeffler :) >Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster >North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) >http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ >and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) > >Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: >http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ > > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill >Heacox >Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 2:35 PM >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Subject: [Rockhounds] Rotor clouds > > >Hi List, > >This isn't about rocks, but it is science, and involves mountains. (Note: I >usually try to give measurements in metric, but I may not succeed all the >time in this report.) > >Tuesday morning Bill and I awoke to an astonishing sight in the sky. At >dawn (6:30am) there was one huge rotor cloud eastward and obviously >downwind from Mauna Kea (which is 14,000 ft/ 42,000 m. high). The first I >noticed anything strange was when I saw an orange glow on the tile floor of >the lanai (deck) outside our bedroom which faces to the west. With the sun >coming up on the opposite side of the house, I wondered where this glow >could be coming from. I looked out at the mountain and saw four >orange/white dots which I recognized as sunrise light reflecting off some >of the telescope domes there. Then I stepped out to get a better look at >the sky and saw an enormous cloud which was glowing orange on its edges and >reflecting that color onto our tile. The underside of the cloud, however, >was dark gray---almost black---and patterned with lines forming a >spiral. I expected to hear deep threatening organ music! I also thought >of the movie "Independence Day" with the image of an alien spaceship >descending. To my left---southward---was a smaller and similar cloud >closer to Mauna Loa. I ran to tell Bill (who had gotten up before >dawn---the time his brain works best---to work on research) and he grabbed >his camera but found it was out of film, ran back in the house to put in a >new role, and got back outside to get a few shots but without the orange >color. Meanwhile I had grabbed my digital camera, but I also was too late >to get very much of the color. > >We had already planned to drive to the west side of the island to Kona for >shopping for Thanksgiving dinner supplies, so we left at 9am and drove >around the north route. That meant that we went up the east coast of the >island continuing north and then west, then gradually southwest and finally >south so we made a semicircle around the north side of Mauna Kea. We >usually divide driving so one of us takes the 2-hour duty one way, and the >other does the return. It was my turn to drive over, and I had to >concentrate to make sure I was paying proper attention to the road because >the huge clouds were still there---3 hours later---and were >spectacular! There was also a smaller rotor cloud to the north that seemed >to act like a baby trying to keep in close touch by reaching a cloudy >tendril towards its "mother." As we proceeded around the north end of the >island the clouds looked (at our left) like great bull-nosed marine >mammals, heads toward the east, tails streaming west. > >When we reached the west coast and were heading south, we were able to see >the clouds head on, and at that point they had the true appearance of rotor >clouds, which is like a disc---or a soft-edged can of tuna---and suggests >even more an alien space ship. The one closest to Mauna Kea was the most >enormous---Bill thinks it must have been 10 miles (15 km?) wide and >definitely higher than the mountain---looked like an uneven stack of fuzzy >pancakes, tilted slightly to the north. That tilt gave it an especially >ominous appearance, like a space ship taking a final turn to zoom in for >attack! The smaller one we had originally seen close to Mauna Loa at 6:30 >am, was now another large fuzzy pancake stack, with several white and dark >gray layers. And the "baby" was by now nearly half as large as its >"mother." The rest of the sky showed a great assortment of cloud >types: there was a thick layer of puffy cumulous over each of the >mountains (Mauna Kea, Mauna Loa, Hualalai, Kohala, and also Hale'akala >visible across the channel on Maui), high cirrus in mare's tail form showed >in different directions at different altitudes, there were a few lenticular >clouds, and near the ocean it was raining here and there. > >The Hawaii Tribune Herald had a front page photo of the largest cloud this >morning (it may appear on http://www.hilohawaiitribune.com/ later today >or tomorrow; right now it still shows yesterdays big story which was >cleaning up after record surf covered Bayfront Highway with >debris). Various news sources say that yesterday winds gusted to 80 mph >with wind chill to -20 degrees f. on the mountain summits. They say there >is probably snow to as much as five feet deep on Mauna Kea and possibly >Mauna Loa also, but no one has been able to get up to either location to >look because the roads are too icy. The newspaper says the clouds, "are >called lenticular or mountain-wave clouds," but my-husband-the-astronomer >says neither of those terms is correct (nor are they synonymous); they are >indeed rotor clouds showing clear vortex lines. > >I've tried to find some account---especially pictures---on the Internet but >have not been able to yet. If our pictures turn out to be any good I'll >ask Kreigh if he would be willing to post them. > >Aloha, and Happy Thanksgiving to all those who celebrate this holiday. > >Kitty > > > > > > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/2003 > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/plain (text body -- kept) >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 26 18:29:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Nov 26 18:29:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rotor clouds In-Reply-To: <002201c3b472$c1606fa0$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20031125180536.029a0010@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031126164519.02e38090@mail.aloha.net> At 01:12 PM 11/26/2003, you wrote: >.....Does Bill (or other list members) know the technical term for this >phenomenon? I've always referred to it as a pinwheel. > >John Siebel That sounds wonderful! Bill says pinwheel sounds good to him! Aloha, Kitty --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 26 21:39:33 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Nov 26 21:39:33 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rotor clouds References: Message-ID: <3FC58D92.3585@Tomaszewski.net> I find it interesting that I see lenticular clouds almost monthly in West Michigan, where we have no mountains (the topo says I am at 680 feet, and I am 30 something miles inland); the Lake Michigan shoreline makes a thermal mountain (compounded in my case by the Greater Grand Rapids '{thermal} energy bubble', that makes another 'mountain'). The 'big bathtub' upwind of me has a _profound_ effect on my weather! We also have our variation of 'rotor' clouds in West Michigan, but they usually appear in horizon to horizon rows of rotor clouds in parallel lines (usually equally spaced by clear sky). And these occur more often than the lenticular clouds. I've noticed pilots usually go thru the gaps parallel to the cloud rows (I flew across them once, and hope it does not reoccur). At the start of WWII the Army decided they needed to open a Meterology School, and they picked Grand Rapids. Six months later they decided to move it westward several hundred miles because it was "impossible to predict the weather in West Michigan". Kreigh Bob Loeffler wrote: > > Thanks Kreigh. We often see lenticular clouds like that here in Denver, but > that one is extremely long. The lenticular clouds are caused by very strong > winds, but Kitty talked about a vortex, so Bill-the-astronomer is probably > correct that they aren't lenticular clouds. I do see a little "rolling" or > "vortex" in the cloud near the left side of that image. I bet I've seen > these rotor clouds before, but just thought that they were thin lenticular > clouds. > > When I was digging for barite up at the Stoneham, CO locality (Weld County) > a few years ago, I saw some mammatus clouds that were much more beautiful > than the ones in the middle picture in the second row on that website. The > cloud was huge and gray, and the sun was low but not setting yet, so each of > the little mammatus clouds were very distinct and looked like perfect little > spheres (ok, half-spheres). It was the first time I had ever seen it, so it > was very eery. The friend with me took several pictures but I have no idea > where they went to. :-( > > Thanks again! > > Bob Loeffler :) > Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster > North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) > http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ > and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) > > Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: > http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Kreigh > Tomaszewski > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 3:38 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rotor clouds > > You can find a picture of a rotor cloud at > http://www.inclouds.com/Wx/clouds2.html -- it is the third one in the > first row of pictures. > > Bob Loeffler wrote: > > > > Hi Kitty, > > > > That is a very nice account of what you saw. What is your definition of a > > rotor cloud? I've never heard of it, but I'm not a meteorologist. Is it > > only associated with volcanos? Is it any cloud with a swirling vortex, > like > > a tornado or funnel cloud? I would love to see a picture of it, even if > it > > doesn't have the orange edges that you talked about. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Bob Loeffler :) > > Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster > > North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) > > http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ > > and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) > > > > Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: > > http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill > > Heacox > > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 2:35 PM > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Rotor clouds > > > > Hi List, > > > > This isn't about rocks, but it is science, and involves mountains. (Note: > I > > usually try to give measurements in metric, but I may not succeed all the > > time in this report.) > > > > Tuesday morning Bill and I awoke to an astonishing sight in the sky. At > > dawn (6:30am) there was one huge rotor cloud eastward and obviously > > downwind from Mauna Kea (which is 14,000 ft/ 42,000 m. high). The first I > > noticed anything strange was when I saw an orange glow on the tile floor > of > > the lanai (deck) outside our bedroom which faces to the west. With the > sun > > coming up on the opposite side of the house, I wondered where this glow > > could be coming from. I looked out at the mountain and saw four > > orange/white dots which I recognized as sunrise light reflecting off some > > of the telescope domes there. Then I stepped out to get a better look at > > the sky and saw an enormous cloud which was glowing orange on its edges > and > > reflecting that color onto our tile. The underside of the cloud, however, > > was dark gray---almost black---and patterned with lines forming a > > spiral. I expected to hear deep threatening organ music! I also thought > > of the movie "Independence Day" with the image of an alien spaceship > > descending. To my left---southward---was a smaller and similar cloud > > closer to Mauna Loa. I ran to tell Bill (who had gotten up before > > dawn---the time his brain works best---to work on research) and he grabbed > > his camera but found it was out of film, ran back in the house to put in a > > new role, and got back outside to get a few shots but without the orange > > color. Meanwhile I had grabbed my digital camera, but I also was too late > > to get very much of the color. > > > > We had already planned to drive to the west side of the island to Kona for > > shopping for Thanksgiving dinner supplies, so we left at 9am and drove > > around the north route. That meant that we went up the east coast of the > > island continuing north and then west, then gradually southwest and > finally > > south so we made a semicircle around the north side of Mauna Kea. We > > usually divide driving so one of us takes the 2-hour duty one way, and the > > other does the return. It was my turn to drive over, and I had to > > concentrate to make sure I was paying proper attention to the road because > > the huge clouds were still there---3 hours later---and were > > spectacular! There was also a smaller rotor cloud to the north that > seemed > > to act like a baby trying to keep in close touch by reaching a cloudy > > tendril towards its "mother." As we proceeded around the north end of > the > > island the clouds looked (at our left) like great bull-nosed marine > > mammals, heads toward the east, tails streaming west. > > > > When we reached the west coast and were heading south, we were able to see > > the clouds head on, and at that point they had the true appearance of > rotor > > clouds, which is like a disc---or a soft-edged can of tuna---and suggests > > even more an alien space ship. The one closest to Mauna Kea was the most > > enormous---Bill thinks it must have been 10 miles (15 km?) wide and > > definitely higher than the mountain---looked like an uneven stack of fuzzy > > pancakes, tilted slightly to the north. That tilt gave it an especially > > ominous appearance, like a space ship taking a final turn to zoom in for > > attack! The smaller one we had originally seen close to Mauna Loa at 6:30 > > am, was now another large fuzzy pancake stack, with several white and > dark > > gray layers. And the "baby" was by now nearly half as large as its > > "mother." The rest of the sky showed a great assortment of cloud > > types: there was a thick layer of puffy cumulous over each of the > > mountains (Mauna Kea, Mauna Loa, Hualalai, Kohala, and also Hale'akala > > visible across the channel on Maui), high cirrus in mare's tail form > showed > > in different directions at different altitudes, there were a few > lenticular > > clouds, and near the ocean it was raining here and there. > > > > The Hawaii Tribune Herald had a front page photo of the largest cloud this > > morning (it may appear on http://www.hilohawaiitribune.com/ later today > > or tomorrow; right now it still shows yesterdays big story which was > > cleaning up after record surf covered Bayfront Highway with > > debris). Various news sources say that yesterday winds gusted to 80 mph > > with wind chill to -20 degrees f. on the mountain summits. They say there > > is probably snow to as much as five feet deep on Mauna Kea and possibly > > Mauna Loa also, but no one has been able to get up to either location to > > look because the roads are too icy. The newspaper says the clouds, "are > > called lenticular or mountain-wave clouds," but my-husband-the-astronomer > > says neither of those terms is correct (nor are they synonymous); they > are > > indeed rotor clouds showing clear vortex lines. > > > > I've tried to find some account---especially pictures---on the Internet > but > > have not been able to yet. If our pictures turn out to be any good I'll > > ask Kreigh if he would be willing to post them. > > > > Aloha, and Happy Thanksgiving to all those who celebrate this holiday. > > > > Kitty From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 26 22:32:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Wed Nov 26 22:32:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rotor clouds Message-ID: <8f.356110af.2cf6f423@aol.com> In a message dated 11/27/2003 12:40:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, Kreigh@Tomaszewski.net writes: http://www.hilohawaiitribune.com the cloud pics are up now on the site Kitty sent before .... Very Nice! Thanks Kitty! Greg --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 26 23:45:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Nov 26 23:45:02 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rotor clouds In-Reply-To: <3FC58D92.3585@Tomaszewski.net> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031126211254.029c8ec0@mail.aloha.net> >Kreigh wrote: >I find it interesting that I see lenticular clouds almost monthly in >West Michigan, where we have no mountains.... > >Bob Loeffler wrote: >We often see lenticular clouds like that here in Denver, but > > that one is extremely long. The lenticular clouds are caused by very > strong > > winds, but Kitty talked about a vortex... Gerg L. wrote: the cloud pic is now up on the site Kitty sent before: http://www.hilohawaiitribune.com ... Hi List, Kitty here: I think a key may be in the word altocumulus, emphasis on alto. I believe lenticular clouds may be seen in many places, and they are fairly small. We see little ones often, and sometimes not close to mountains. But DO take a look at the website I posted and Greg reiterated above. The angle of view is hard to perceive, but at the lower part of the picture is Mauna Kea---14,000 ft in altitude. Our house is on its slopes, and we were looking up almost directly under the cloud and it obscured most of our view of the sky. There is a cloud arm extending to the left that shows just a bit if the right edge of another similar but smaller, cloud that is over Mauna Loa (which is almost as tall as Mauna Kea). Not very clear, but visible to the right, is what I called the "baby." The "vortex" shape is seen in both. This complex of three connected altocumulus lenticular clouds extending over something between 30 and 60 miles is---I would think---larger and more impressive than what most people have seen as lenticluars. And there are no pictures (yet) of the view we had on the other (west) side of those puppies where they looked like alien invader pancake stacks! Aloha, Kitty --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Nov 26 23:51:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (TA Masters) Date: Wed Nov 26 23:51:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rotor clouds References: <5.1.0.14.0.20031125180536.029a0010@mail.aloha.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20031126152332.02992430@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <3FC5AD53.1000104@cox.net> Kitty, Your posts are fantastic. thanks from an appreciative fan. Teresa From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Nov 27 01:48:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Nov 27 01:48:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rotor clouds References: <8f.356110af.2cf6f423@aol.com> Message-ID: <001001c3b4cb$7e851ec0$80ab77d5@axel> > Kreigh@Tomaszewski.net writes: > http://www.hilohawaiitribune.com > the cloud pics are up now on the site Kitty sent before .... Very Nice! > Thanks Kitty! Great story to go with this photo, Kitty! Thanks. I'm sorry to inform you that no rotor clouds are visible over my part of Hawaii. Maybe it's because of the plastic box? ;-))) This thing looks like a tornado without the funnel and without the thunderstorm... Axel From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Nov 27 03:59:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Thu Nov 27 03:59:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rotor clouds In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20031126211254.029c8ec0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: Hi Kitty, Now I see what you were talking about. Those are cool clouds! Why didn't you say so in the first place? ;-) Bob Loeffler :) Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill Heacox Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 1:04 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rotor clouds >Kreigh wrote: >I find it interesting that I see lenticular clouds almost monthly in >West Michigan, where we have no mountains.... > >Bob Loeffler wrote: >We often see lenticular clouds like that here in Denver, but > > that one is extremely long. The lenticular clouds are caused by very > strong > > winds, but Kitty talked about a vortex... Gerg L. wrote: the cloud pic is now up on the site Kitty sent before: http://www.hilohawaiitribune.com ... Hi List, Kitty here: I think a key may be in the word altocumulus, emphasis on alto. I believe lenticular clouds may be seen in many places, and they are fairly small. We see little ones often, and sometimes not close to mountains. But DO take a look at the website I posted and Greg reiterated above. The angle of view is hard to perceive, but at the lower part of the picture is Mauna Kea---14,000 ft in altitude. Our house is on its slopes, and we were looking up almost directly under the cloud and it obscured most of our view of the sky. There is a cloud arm extending to the left that shows just a bit if the right edge of another similar but smaller, cloud that is over Mauna Loa (which is almost as tall as Mauna Kea). Not very clear, but visible to the right, is what I called the "baby." The "vortex" shape is seen in both. This complex of three connected altocumulus lenticular clouds extending over something between 30 and 60 miles is---I would think---larger and more impressive than what most people have seen as lenticluars. And there are no pictures (yet) of the view we had on the other (west) side of those puppies where they looked like alien invader pancake stacks! Aloha, Kitty --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html text/plain (text body -- kept) --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Nov 27 08:16:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Thu Nov 27 08:16:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rotor clouds References: <3FC58D92.3585@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <006701c3b500$7b568100$45315841@powertech.net> Also, Denali (Mr. McKinley) in Alaska has a large lenticular cloud sitting over it almost all the time. Sometimes you can see a tail on it due to the very high winds blowing the snow. Margaret kadok@infowest.com, in Utah's colorful Dixie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rotor clouds > I find it interesting that I see lenticular clouds almost monthly in > West Michigan, where we have no mountains (the topo says I am at 680 > feet, and I am 30 something miles inland); the Lake Michigan shoreline > makes a thermal mountain (compounded in my case by the Greater Grand > Rapids '{thermal} energy bubble', that makes another 'mountain'). The > 'big bathtub' upwind of me has a _profound_ effect on my weather! > > We also have our variation of 'rotor' clouds in West Michigan, but they > usually appear in horizon to horizon rows of rotor clouds in parallel > lines (usually equally spaced by clear sky). And these occur more often > than the lenticular clouds. I've noticed pilots usually go thru the gaps > parallel to the cloud rows (I flew across them once, and hope it does > not reoccur). > > At the start of WWII the Army decided they needed to open a Meterology > School, and they picked Grand Rapids. Six months later they decided to > move it westward several hundred miles because it was "impossible to > predict the weather in West Michigan". > > Kreigh > > > > Bob Loeffler wrote: > > > > Thanks Kreigh. We often see lenticular clouds like that here in Denver, but > > that one is extremely long. The lenticular clouds are caused by very strong > > winds, but Kitty talked about a vortex, so Bill-the-astronomer is probably > > correct that they aren't lenticular clouds. I do see a little "rolling" or > > "vortex" in the cloud near the left side of that image. I bet I've seen > > these rotor clouds before, but just thought that they were thin lenticular > > clouds. > > > > When I was digging for barite up at the Stoneham, CO locality (Weld County) > > a few years ago, I saw some mammatus clouds that were much more beautiful > > than the ones in the middle picture in the second row on that website. The > > cloud was huge and gray, and the sun was low but not setting yet, so each of > > the little mammatus clouds were very distinct and looked like perfect little > > spheres (ok, half-spheres). It was the first time I had ever seen it, so it > > was very eery. The friend with me took several pictures but I have no idea > > where they went to. :-( > > > > Thanks again! > > > > Bob Loeffler :) > > Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster > > North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) > > http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ > > and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) > > > > Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: > > http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Kreigh > > Tomaszewski > > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 3:38 PM > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rotor clouds > > > > You can find a picture of a rotor cloud at > > http://www.inclouds.com/Wx/clouds2.html -- it is the third one in the > > first row of pictures. > > > > Bob Loeffler wrote: > > > > > > Hi Kitty, > > > > > > That is a very nice account of what you saw. What is your definition of a > > > rotor cloud? I've never heard of it, but I'm not a meteorologist. Is it > > > only associated with volcanos? Is it any cloud with a swirling vortex, > > like > > > a tornado or funnel cloud? I would love to see a picture of it, even if > > it > > > doesn't have the orange edges that you talked about. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Bob Loeffler :) > > > Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster > > > North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) > > > http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ > > > and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) > > > > > > Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: > > > http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > > > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill > > > Heacox > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 2:35 PM > > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Rotor clouds > > > > > > Hi List, > > > > > > This isn't about rocks, but it is science, and involves mountains. (Note: > > I > > > usually try to give measurements in metric, but I may not succeed all the > > > time in this report.) > > > > > > Tuesday morning Bill and I awoke to an astonishing sight in the sky. At > > > dawn (6:30am) there was one huge rotor cloud eastward and obviously > > > downwind from Mauna Kea (which is 14,000 ft/ 42,000 m. high). The first I > > > noticed anything strange was when I saw an orange glow on the tile floor > > of > > > the lanai (deck) outside our bedroom which faces to the west. With the > > sun > > > coming up on the opposite side of the house, I wondered where this glow > > > could be coming from. I looked out at the mountain and saw four > > > orange/white dots which I recognized as sunrise light reflecting off some > > > of the telescope domes there. Then I stepped out to get a better look at > > > the sky and saw an enormous cloud which was glowing orange on its edges > > and > > > reflecting that color onto our tile. The underside of the cloud, however, > > > was dark gray---almost black---and patterned with lines forming a > > > spiral. I expected to hear deep threatening organ music! I also thought > > > of the movie "Independence Day" with the image of an alien spaceship > > > descending. To my left---southward---was a smaller and similar cloud > > > closer to Mauna Loa. I ran to tell Bill (who had gotten up before > > > dawn---the time his brain works best---to work on research) and he grabbed > > > his camera but found it was out of film, ran back in the house to put in a > > > new role, and got back outside to get a few shots but without the orange > > > color. Meanwhile I had grabbed my digital camera, but I also was too late > > > to get very much of the color. > > > > > > We had already planned to drive to the west side of the island to Kona for > > > shopping for Thanksgiving dinner supplies, so we left at 9am and drove > > > around the north route. That meant that we went up the east coast of the > > > island continuing north and then west, then gradually southwest and > > finally > > > south so we made a semicircle around the north side of Mauna Kea. We > > > usually divide driving so one of us takes the 2-hour duty one way, and the > > > other does the return. It was my turn to drive over, and I had to > > > concentrate to make sure I was paying proper attention to the road because > > > the huge clouds were still there---3 hours later---and were > > > spectacular! There was also a smaller rotor cloud to the north that > > seemed > > > to act like a baby trying to keep in close touch by reaching a cloudy > > > tendril towards its "mother." As we proceeded around the north end of > > the > > > island the clouds looked (at our left) like great bull-nosed marine > > > mammals, heads toward the east, tails streaming west. > > > > > > When we reached the west coast and were heading south, we were able to see > > > the clouds head on, and at that point they had the true appearance of > > rotor > > > clouds, which is like a disc---or a soft-edged can of tuna---and suggests > > > even more an alien space ship. The one closest to Mauna Kea was the most > > > enormous---Bill thinks it must have been 10 miles (15 km?) wide and > > > definitely higher than the mountain---looked like an uneven stack of fuzzy > > > pancakes, tilted slightly to the north. That tilt gave it an especially > > > ominous appearance, like a space ship taking a final turn to zoom in for > > > attack! The smaller one we had originally seen close to Mauna Loa at 6:30 > > > am, was now another large fuzzy pancake stack, with several white and > > dark > > > gray layers. And the "baby" was by now nearly half as large as its > > > "mother." The rest of the sky showed a great assortment of cloud > > > types: there was a thick layer of puffy cumulous over each of the > > > mountains (Mauna Kea, Mauna Loa, Hualalai, Kohala, and also Hale'akala > > > visible across the channel on Maui), high cirrus in mare's tail form > > showed > > > in different directions at different altitudes, there were a few > > lenticular > > > clouds, and near the ocean it was raining here and there. > > > > > > The Hawaii Tribune Herald had a front page photo of the largest cloud this > > > morning (it may appear on http://www.hilohawaiitribune.com/ later today > > > or tomorrow; right now it still shows yesterdays big story which was > > > cleaning up after record surf covered Bayfront Highway with > > > debris). Various news sources say that yesterday winds gusted to 80 mph > > > with wind chill to -20 degrees f. on the mountain summits. They say there > > > is probably snow to as much as five feet deep on Mauna Kea and possibly > > > Mauna Loa also, but no one has been able to get up to either location to > > > look because the roads are too icy. The newspaper says the clouds, "are > > > called lenticular or mountain-wave clouds," but my-husband-the-astronomer > > > says neither of those terms is correct (nor are they synonymous); they > > are > > > indeed rotor clouds showing clear vortex lines. > > > > > > I've tried to find some account---especially pictures---on the Internet > > but > > > have not been able to yet. If our pictures turn out to be any good I'll > > > ask Kreigh if he would be willing to post them. > > > > > > Aloha, and Happy Thanksgiving to all those who celebrate this holiday. > > > > > > Kitty > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Nov 27 08:59:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tina Tuttle) Date: Thu Nov 27 08:59:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hawaiian Weather log Message-ID: Kitty: thanks for the weather-log from Hawaii. You would do Pliny the Elder proud (Pliny documented the fateful eruption of the Vesuvius in 79AD)! As it is grey and dreary as typical November in Indiana, it was nice to pretend I was back on the Big Island for a few moments to see the amazing viewscapes. It also reminded me of the bizarro cloud formations we saw in the Mojave--where the mojave meets the Sierra Nevada. You do get a vortex going there called the Sierra wave, but the causes are likely different than what you describe. We also got an effect that an air controller friend called "cumulus hugulus" which is pretty explanatory. happy holidays, all. Thanks for taking the time to share! tj tuttle _________________________________________________________________ online games and music with a high-speed Internet connection! Prices start at less than $1 a day average. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Nov 27 13:09:02 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Thu Nov 27 13:09:02 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: puzzled over how the list administrator accepts mail In-Reply-To: <112720032020.25260.4805@att.net> Message-ID: Hi all, Pete Modreski is having problems sending e-mails to the list (Aaron?), so I'm forwarding his message until he gets it fixed. (see e-mail below) Bob Loeffler :) Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ -----Original Message----- From: pjmodreski@att.net [mailto:pjmodreski@att.net] Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 1:20 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Cc: Kreigh@Tomaszewski.net; bobl@peaktopeak.com; kahako@aloha.net; kadok@infowest.com Subject: puzzled over how the list administrator accepts mail Hi, Rockhounds, Pete here, from Denver, and I'm just expressing some puzzlement & mild frustration over how exactly the "rockhounds" lists does or doesn't recognize mail from me. I recently did some reprogramming of my home computer, and right now, I've been sending & receiving my email directly through the ATT Worldnet home page (my internet service provider), instead of through Microsoft Outlook Express, which is how I formerly had my email configured. I just posted a (nice, long) message to the Rockhounds list, in response to some of the "rotor clouds" and related messages. I was surprised to see, instead of my message appearing to the list, a message that because my message is perceived as coming from a non-list member, it must await approval by the list administrator for posting. Well, darn it, the message IS coming from me, from the same (pjmodreski@att.net) list address that I've always used, so I don't know why it isn't recognized as such; I guess, just because it isn't coming through the Outlook Express gateway as it used to??? Well, among other things, I had wanted to wish the people on the list a Happy Thanksgiving, and also to pass on about how the International Space Station has been visible from most of the U.S. shortly after dark all this week, including today (Thanksgiving) at 5:35 p.m. Denver time; you can find exact times for your city at the NASA Human Spaceflight website, http://spaceflight1.nasa.gov/realdata/sightings . Well, since it would nice if at least some humans read my message before a day or more has elapsed, I'm going to cc this message directly to several of you (Kitty, Kreigh, Bob, Margaret) who've been posting on the "rotor clouds" theme to Rockhounds! So, as I had wanted to say, Happy Thanksgiving to all, and you'll get the rest of my message, later. best regards (wish I were in Hawaii too, Kitty!), Pete Modreski From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Nov 27 18:24:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Nov 27 18:24:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] [OT] Re: puzzled over how the list administrator accepts mail References: <112720032020.25260.4805@att.net> Message-ID: <3FC6B18F.2CC5@Tomaszewski.net> Hi Pete, Your claimed 'From:' address is part of what a mailing list package looks at in trying to decide if the sender of a message for posting is a trusted member of the list. The list server would have seen headers in your message essentially the same as the ones on the copy I received. It is obvious your 'From:' address has changed (see full headers below) from "Peter J. Modreski" to pjmodreski@att.net which is reflected in the more reliable 'Return-Path:' that many lists use to screen posters. BTW, the 'Message-ID:' is often used to validate the return-path. It looks like you are going to have to unsubscribe the old address and subscribe the new one. Kreigh Your current headeers... Return-Path: Received: from 192.168.1.26 (127.0.0.1) by Tomaszewski.net with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Thu, 27 Nov 2003 15:26:00 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.117]) by invincible.cnchost.com (ConcentricHost SMTP MX 1.42) id PAA05974 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 15:20:22 -0500 (EST) From: pjmodreski@att.net Errors-To: Received: from 204.127.135.59 ([204.127.135.59]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13) with SMTP id <20031127202003113003bs3ee>; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 20:20:03 +0000 Received: from [12.72.168.69] by 204.127.135.59; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 20:20:01 +0000 To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Cc: Kreigh@Tomaszewski.net, bobl@peaktopeak.com, kahako@aloha.net, kadok@infowest.com Subject: puzzled over how the list administrator accepts mail Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 20:20:01 +0000 Message-Id: <112720032020.25260.4805@att.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 10 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: cGptb2RyZXNraUBhdHQubmV0 X-UIDL: 149943 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 ...and your old headers received from the list (I saved a posting)... Return-Path: Received: from 192.168.1.26 (127.0.0.1) by Tomaszewski.net with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Wed, 24 Sep 2003 01:01:09 -0400 Return-Path: Received: from bubbleator.drizzle.com (bubbleator.drizzle.com [216.162.192.19]) by zealous.cnchost.com (ConcentricHost SMTP MX 1.39) id AAA08799 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 00:33:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bubbleator.drizzle.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by bubbleator.drizzle.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h8O4R5oU013535; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:27:05 -0700 Received: from mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.116]) by bubbleator.drizzle.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h8O4QeoU013492 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:26:40 -0700 Received: from oemcomputer (235.denver-03-04rs.co.dial-access.att.net[12.86.1.235]) by mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12) with SMTP id <2003092404263911200ctt49e>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 04:26:40 +0000 Message-ID: <006001c38255$0a5b6a20$b902560c@oemcomputer> From: "Peter J. Modreski" To: References: <20030923205738.14533.qmail@eznet.net> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] AD: New Program for Kids: Earth Digger Clubs MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com Errors-To: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com X-BeenThere: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: X-Original-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:33:03 -0600 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:33:03 -0600 X-UIDL: 140052 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 Content-Length: 3149 pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > Hi, Rockhounds, > > Pete here, from Denver, and I'm just expressing some puzzlement & mild > frustration over how exactly the "rockhounds" lists does or doesn't recognize > mail from me. > > I recently did some reprogramming of my home computer, and right now, I've > been sending & receiving my email directly through the ATT Worldnet home page > (my internet service provider), instead of through Microsoft Outlook Express, > which is how I formerly had my email configured. I just posted a (nice, > long) message to the Rockhounds list, in response to some of the "rotor > clouds" and related messages. I was surprised to see, instead of my message > appearing to the list, a message that because my message is perceived as > coming from a non-list member, it must await approval by the list > administrator for posting. Well, darn it, the message IS coming from me, > from the same (pjmodreski@att.net) list address that I've always used, so I > don't know why it isn't recognized as such; I guess, just because it isn't > coming through the Outlook Express gateway as it used to??? Well, among > other things, I had wanted to wish the people on the list a Happy > Thanksgiving, and also to pass on about how the International Space Station > has been visible from most of the U.S. shortly after dark all this week, > including today (Thanksgiving) at 5:35 p.m. Denver time; you can find exact > times for your city at the NASA Human Spaceflight website, > http://spaceflight1.nasa.gov/realdata/sightings . > > Well, since it would nice if at least some humans read my message before a > day or more has elapsed, I'm going to cc this message directly to several of > you (Kitty, Kreigh, Bob, Margaret) who've been posting on the "rotor clouds" > theme to Rockhounds! So, as I had wanted to say, Happy Thanksgiving to all, > and you'll get the rest of my message, later. > > best regards (wish I were in Hawaii too, Kitty!), > Pete Modreski From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Nov 27 19:13:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Nov 27 19:13:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] [OT] Re: puzzled over how the list administrator accepts mail In-Reply-To: <3FC6B18F.2CC5@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: That happened to me when MSN switched from email.msn.com to just msn.com. The problem is that you now cannot unsub from the list since the list is looking for your old, no longer usable email address for commands. Bryan "Si vis pacem para bellum" > > > Hi Pete, > > Your claimed 'From:' address is part of what a mailing list package > looks at in trying to decide if the sender of a message for posting is a > trusted member of the list. The list server would have seen headers in > your message essentially the same as the ones on the copy I received. > > It is obvious your 'From:' address has changed (see full headers below) > from > > "Peter J. Modreski" > > to > > pjmodreski@att.net > > which is reflected in the more reliable 'Return-Path:' that many lists > use to screen posters. BTW, the 'Message-ID:' is often used to validate > the return-path. > > It looks like you are going to have to unsubscribe the old address and > subscribe the new one. > > Kreigh > > > > Your current headeers... > > Return-Path: > > Received: > from 192.168.1.26 (127.0.0.1) by Tomaszewski.net > with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Thu, 27 Nov 2003 15:26:00 > -0500 > Return-Path: > > Received: > from mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net > (mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.117]) by invincible.cnchost.com > (ConcentricHost > SMTP MX 1.42) id PAA05974 for > ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 15:20:22 -0500 (EST) > From: > pjmodreski@att.net > Errors-To: > > Received: > from 204.127.135.59 ([204.127.135.59]) by > worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13) with SMTP id <20031127202003113003bs3ee>; > Thu, > 27 Nov 2003 20:20:03 +0000 > Received: > from [12.72.168.69] by 204.127.135.59; Thu, 27 Nov > 2003 20:20:01 +0000 > To: > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Cc: > Kreigh@Tomaszewski.net, bobl@peaktopeak.com, > kahako@aloha.net, kadok@infowest.com > Subject: > puzzled over how the list administrator accepts > mail > Date: > Thu, 27 Nov 2003 20:20:01 +0000 > Message-Id: > <112720032020.25260.4805@att.net> > X-Mailer: > AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 10 2003) > X-Authenticated-Sender: > cGptb2RyZXNraUBhdHQubmV0 > X-UIDL: > 149943 > X-Mozilla-Status: > 0001 > > > ...and your old headers received from the list (I saved a posting)... > > Return-Path: > > Received: > from 192.168.1.26 (127.0.0.1) by Tomaszewski.net > with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Wed, 24 Sep 2003 > 01:01:09 -0400 > Return-Path: > > Received: > from bubbleator.drizzle.com > (bubbleator.drizzle.com [216.162.192.19]) by zealous.cnchost.com > (ConcentricHost SMTP MX > 1.39) id AAA08799 for ; > Wed, 24 Sep 2003 00:33:22 -0400 (EDT) > Received: > from bubbleator.drizzle.com > (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by bubbleator.drizzle.com > (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id > h8O4R5oU013535; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:27:05 -0700 > Received: > from mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net > (mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.116]) by bubbleator.drizzle.com > (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h8O4QeoU013492 > for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:26:40 -0700 > Received: > from oemcomputer > (235.denver-03-04rs.co.dial-access.att.net[12.86.1.235]) by > mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12) > with SMTP id <2003092404263911200ctt49e>; Wed, > 24 Sep 2003 04:26:40 +0000 > Message-ID: > <006001c38255$0a5b6a20$b902560c@oemcomputer> > From: > "Peter J. Modreski" > > To: > > References: > <20030923205738.14533.qmail@eznet.net> > Subject: > Re: [Rockhounds] AD: New Program for Kids: Earth > Digger Clubs > MIME-Version: > 1.0 > X-Priority: > 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: > Normal > X-Mailer: > Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 > X-MimeOLE: > Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: > 7bit > Content-Type: > text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" > Sender: > rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > Errors-To: > rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > X-BeenThere: > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > X-Mailman-Version: > 2.0.13 > Precedence: > bulk > Reply-To: > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > List-Help: > > > List-Post: > > List-Subscribe: > > , > > List-Id: > Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock > and gem collectors > List-Unsubscribe: > > , > > List-Archive: > > X-Original-Date: > Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:33:03 -0600 > Date: > Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:33:03 -0600 > X-UIDL: > 140052 > X-Mozilla-Status: > 0011 > Content-Length: > 3149 > > > > > pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > > > Hi, Rockhounds, > > > > Pete here, from Denver, and I'm just expressing some puzzlement & mild > > frustration over how exactly the "rockhounds" lists does or > doesn't recognize > > mail from me. > > > > I recently did some reprogramming of my home computer, and > right now, I've > > been sending & receiving my email directly through the ATT > Worldnet home page > > (my internet service provider), instead of through Microsoft > Outlook Express, > > which is how I formerly had my email configured. I just posted a (nice, > > long) message to the Rockhounds list, in response to some of the "rotor > > clouds" and related messages. I was surprised to see, instead > of my message > > appearing to the list, a message that because my message is perceived as > > coming from a non-list member, it must await approval by the list > > administrator for posting. Well, darn it, the message IS > coming from me, > > from the same (pjmodreski@att.net) list address that I've > always used, so I > > don't know why it isn't recognized as such; I guess, just > because it isn't > > coming through the Outlook Express gateway as it used to??? Well, among > > other things, I had wanted to wish the people on the list a Happy > > Thanksgiving, and also to pass on about how the International > Space Station > > has been visible from most of the U.S. shortly after dark all this week, > > including today (Thanksgiving) at 5:35 p.m. Denver time; you > can find exact > > times for your city at the NASA Human Spaceflight website, > > http://spaceflight1.nasa.gov/realdata/sightings . > > > > Well, since it would nice if at least some humans read my > message before a > > day or more has elapsed, I'm going to cc this message directly > to several of > > you (Kitty, Kreigh, Bob, Margaret) who've been posting on the > "rotor clouds" > > theme to Rockhounds! So, as I had wanted to say, Happy > Thanksgiving to all, > > and you'll get the rest of my message, later. > > > > best regards (wish I were in Hawaii too, Kitty!), > > Pete Modreski > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Nov 27 20:14:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Don H) Date: Thu Nov 27 20:14:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: puzzled over how the list administrator accepts mail References: Message-ID: <3FC6CC31.37050961@att.net> It's an AT&T thing. When you stop using the "worldnet" the software isn't smart enough to know that it's actually the same account from the same ISP. Pete needs to re-subscribe as @att.net. Don From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Nov 28 10:23:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Fri Nov 28 10:23:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: puzzled over how the list administrator accepts mail References: <112720032020.25260.4805@att.net> Message-ID: <001101c3b5db$67a46c40$22335841@powertech.net> Thanks, Pete. You are probably right about what the problem is in getting your message through. (Although I certainly am no expert at any of this!) I am going to forward your message on to the list, and see if it gets through this way (at least so the list admin can see that there is a problem). Margaret kadok@infowest.com, in Utah's colorful Dixie ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: ; ; ; Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 1:20 PM Subject: puzzled over how the list administrator accepts mail > Hi, Rockhounds, > > Pete here, from Denver, and I'm just expressing some puzzlement & mild > frustration over how exactly the "rockhounds" lists does or doesn't recognize > mail from me. > > I recently did some reprogramming of my home computer, and right now, I've > been sending & receiving my email directly through the ATT Worldnet home page > (my internet service provider), instead of through Microsoft Outlook Express, > which is how I formerly had my email configured. I just posted a (nice, > long) message to the Rockhounds list, in response to some of the "rotor > clouds" and related messages. I was surprised to see, instead of my message > appearing to the list, a message that because my message is perceived as > coming from a non-list member, it must await approval by the list > administrator for posting. Well, darn it, the message IS coming from me, > from the same (pjmodreski@att.net) list address that I've always used, so I > don't know why it isn't recognized as such; I guess, just because it isn't > coming through the Outlook Express gateway as it used to??? Well, among > other things, I had wanted to wish the people on the list a Happy > Thanksgiving, and also to pass on about how the International Space Station > has been visible from most of the U.S. shortly after dark all this week, > including today (Thanksgiving) at 5:35 p.m. Denver time; you can find exact > times for your city at the NASA Human Spaceflight website, > http://spaceflight1.nasa.gov/realdata/sightings . > > Well, since it would nice if at least some humans read my message before a > day or more has elapsed, I'm going to cc this message directly to several of > you (Kitty, Kreigh, Bob, Margaret) who've been posting on the "rotor clouds" > theme to Rockhounds! So, as I had wanted to say, Happy Thanksgiving to all, > and you'll get the rest of my message, later. > > best regards (wish I were in Hawaii too, Kitty!), > Pete Modreski > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Nov 28 22:33:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Michael Binno) Date: Fri Nov 28 22:33:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] HELP! - Please Remove Me From Your Mailing List References: <20031129020003.10462.15576.Mailman@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <001501c3b642$90269410$f7053e44@D6WJC121> Please Remove Me From Your Mailing List. I Want To Unsubscribe From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Nov 28 23:59:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Fri Nov 28 23:59:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] HELP! - Please Remove Me From Your Mailing List In-Reply-To: <001501c3b642$90269410$f7053e44@D6WJC121> Message-ID: Michael, To unsubscribe, all you need to do is: a) Point your web browser to: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds b) Scroll down to the "Rockhounds Subscribers" section. c) Enter your e-mail address in the BOTTOM box, and click the "Edit Options" button. d) On the upper left hand side of the screen, you'll see a section marked "Unsubscribing from Rockhounds". Enter your password in the box below, and click on the "Unsubscribe" button. Regards, Bob Loeffler :) Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Michael Binno Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 11:32 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] HELP! - Please Remove Me From Your Mailing List Please Remove Me From Your Mailing List. I Want To Unsubscribe _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Nov 29 17:01:12 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sat Nov 29 17:01:12 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ad: Fossil Wood books Message-ID: <1c5.11d22b47.2cfa9b24@aol.com> I can accept PayPal, Visa/MasterCard, or checks for these books. Just in tim= e=20 for the holidays, these will make great presents for the rock and mineral=20 enthusiast in your family, and I have a list of top quality petrified wood=20 specimens. Contact me off list for a copy of the fossil wood list and any ot= her=20 additional information you need. I have just three copies of Secrets of Petr= ified=20 Plants, five copies of Araucaria, and six Quartz books left. Petrified Wood: The World of Fossilized Wood, Cones, Ferns, and Cycads, by=20 Frank J. Daniels. Hard cover, large format, 176 pages. 430 full color=20 photographs. $75 plus $3 S/H =20 =20 Araucaria, by Ulrich Dernbach. Large format, 160 pages, each book is in both= =20 German and English, beautiful photography. Hard cover. Large format. Publish= ed=20 in Germany in 1992. If you like the wood and cones from Patagonia you will=20 like this book. $65 plus $4 S/H =20 =20 NEW RELEASE: Secrets of Petrified Plants, by Ulrich Dernbach , Ruth Stockey= ,=20 William Tidwell, Walt Wright, and others. It is a large format, hard cover=20 book of 232 pages in full color with many photographs of fossil wood from=20 worldwide locations. Chapters include discussions of ferns, Psaronius, Osmun= da,=20 Chinle woods, Tempskya, cones, conifers, cycads, Hermanophyton, and many oth= er=20 woods. I recommend this book to all petrified wood enthusiasts. Hard Cover;=20= Large=20 format In English. Published in 2002 in Germany. $75 plus $4 S/H (no furthe= r=20 discounts) =20 NEW RELEASE: Quartz: decoding messages from inside the earth. Hot off the=20 presses. I was able to get several extra copies of this first edition, limit= ed=20 edition (only 1,000 hard cover copies printed) lovely and interesting new bo= ok.=20 Written by Harold Dibble, copyrighted in 2002, and just printed in January.=20 Here is how it reads on the inside flap of the dust jacket: =E2=80=9CThis bo= ok breaks=20 new ground in several ways. The internal structure of quartz crystals are=20 covered as well as its external forms. It describes many forms of quartz cry= stals=20 that have not been covered in previous books. The CD, which is included, is=20= an=20 educational tool beyond anything that has been used before. It clearly=20 illustrates the internal atomic arrangements and growth mechanisms in a mann= er that=20 the two-dimensional pages of a book cannot. The specimens used in the book w= ere=20 not selected merely for their beauty, but for their unique qualities.=E2=80= =9D The=20 178 photographs are very well done by such topnotch photographers as Jeff Sc= ovil=20 and Rainer Bode. The format is 8 =C2=BD by 11 with 100 pages plus the Java A= pplet=20 CD. List price is $55. My price is $47.50 plus $3 S/H.(no further discounts.= ) Frank J. Daniels, publisher Western Colorado Publishing Company 2024 Freedom Court Grand Junction, CO 81503-9522 (970) 242-5255 -the best time to call is evenings and weekends --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Nov 29 21:06:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sat Nov 29 21:06:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Test to list (and, microscopes) References: <112720032020.25260.4805@att.net> <001101c3b5db$67a46c40$22335841@powertech.net> Message-ID: <001201c3b6ff$839fa7a0$3da6490c@pete> Hi, Rockhounds, Pardon the extra message, but I've reconfigured my email program and this message is just to confirm that now my message posts to Rockhounds will be accepted as coming from a list member. P.S.--I might as well say something of mineral interest too. Those of you who subscribe to The Mineralogical Record, will just have received their latest Nov-Dec issue which is a special double issue, one magazine on the theme of Mexico - Part III (Los Lamentos, Fresnillo, Las Vigas, and Sierra de Cruces (Lake Jaco); and the second magazine a special issue on "The Petrographic Microscope", written by Daniel E. Kile. Dan is from the Denver area and is a colleague at the USGS and a fellow mineral collector; he has put a great deal of effort into preparing this special issue on the history of the petrographic microscope, and some of you have probably seen the excellent exhibits of antique microscopes that he has prepared in Tucson and Denver. Several local mineral organizations, including the Colorado Chapter of Friends of Mineralogy and the Greater Denver Area Gem and Mineral Council, and others, made contributions to help MR publish this special issue, which comes as an extra supplement to its subscribers (7 issues this year, instead of 6). I suspect that not many people may read through the entire article and may content themselves with admiring the excellent photographs of fancy brass microscopes, but this issue will be a valuable reference work and will probably become a collector's item. For those in the Denver area, we (Colorado Friends of Mineralogy) are planning to have Dan give a talk & slide presentation on "The History of Petrographic Microscope" at one of our coming meetings, probably on Jan. 8, 2004. Best wishes & happy hunting to all, Pete Modreski, Denver CO, pjmodreski@att.net From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 30 07:19:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Nathan C. Martin II) Date: Sun Nov 30 07:19:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Petrographic microscopes In-Reply-To: <001201c3b6ff$839fa7a0$3da6490c@pete> References: <112720032020.25260.4805@att.net> <001101c3b5db$67a46c40$22335841@powertech.net> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20031130100810.01d951f0@po2.bbn.com> Pete, Please tell your colleague, Dan Kile, that there is at least one East Coast mineral collector that intends to read this special issue quite thoroughly. I acquired a used petrographic microscope about a year ago when a local college was getting rid of some old equipment, but have not yet had the time to figure out how to use it. When I opened my latest issue of MR this morning I was delighted to find the bonus special issue. Although I know that it is not by any means an instruction manual I have perused it enough to know that it will give me a good introduction to the instrument and its history. If anyone else has suggestions on other resources (either on-line or written texts) for learning to use the microscope I would appreciate your sharing them with the list. Best regards, Nate Martin Lexington, MA At 12:04 AM 11/30/2003, Pete Modreski wrote: >Hi, Rockhounds, > >Pardon the extra message, but I've reconfigured my email program and this >message is just to confirm that now my message posts to Rockhounds will be >accepted as coming from a list member. > >P.S.--I might as well say something of mineral interest too. Those of you >who subscribe to The Mineralogical Record, will just have received their >latest Nov-Dec issue which is a special double issue, one magazine on the >theme of Mexico - Part III (Los Lamentos, Fresnillo, Las Vigas, and Sierra >de Cruces (Lake Jaco); and the second magazine a special issue on "The >Petrographic Microscope", written by Daniel E. Kile. Dan is from the Denver >area and is a colleague at the USGS and a fellow mineral collector; he has >put a great deal of effort into preparing this special issue on the history >of the petrographic microscope, and some of you have probably seen the >excellent exhibits of antique microscopes that he has prepared in Tucson and >Denver. Several local mineral organizations, including the Colorado Chapter >of Friends of Mineralogy and the Greater Denver Area Gem and Mineral >Council, and others, made contributions to help MR publish this special >issue, which comes as an extra supplement to its subscribers (7 issues this >year, instead of 6). I suspect that not many people may read through the >entire article and may content themselves with admiring the excellent >photographs of fancy brass microscopes, but this issue will be a valuable >reference work and will probably become a collector's item. For those in >the Denver area, we (Colorado Friends of Mineralogy) are planning to have >Dan give a talk & slide presentation on "The History of Petrographic >Microscope" at one of our coming meetings, probably on Jan. 8, 2004. > >Best wishes & happy hunting to all, >Pete Modreski, Denver CO, pjmodreski@att.net From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 30 08:36:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Don H) Date: Sun Nov 30 08:36:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Test to list (and, microscopes) References: <112720032020.25260.4805@att.net> <001101c3b5db$67a46c40$22335841@powertech.net> <001201c3b6ff$839fa7a0$3da6490c@pete> Message-ID: <3FCA1D09.51F2A5FE@att.net> "Peter J. Modreski" wrote: > > P.S.--I might as well say something of mineral interest too. Those of you > who subscribe to The Mineralogical Record, will just have received their > latest Nov-Dec issue which is a special double issue, one magazine on the > theme of Mexico - Part III (Los Lamentos, Fresnillo, Las Vigas, and Sierra > de Cruces (Lake Jaco); and the second magazine a special issue on "The > Petrographic Microscope", written by Daniel E. Kile. I wholeheartedly second that emotion. I have come to know Dan Kile and he holds more knowledge about microscpes than anyone I have met. The issue speaks for itself; it is a masterpiece. And in the end, his conclusion speaks to the need for continuing these valuable techniques. Don From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 30 09:34:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (John Teague) Date: Sun Nov 30 09:34:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Columbia, SC show this weekend Message-ID: <3FC41DCD.65CA3A4A@icx.net> Greetings! I would like to remind members of the list about the Columbia Gem and Mineral Society's 36 Annual Show this weekend in Columbia, SC. Full of turkey? Tired of the After-Thanksgiving-Mall- Sales traffic? Take a break and head to this show. This will be my second year doing this show. Last year's show was a GREAT one! Great folks doing a great show! And it is a great place to buy those unique Christmas gifts! My booth is hard to miss as I have UT orange table coverings! And for you faceters ... I will have a used Ultra Tech with 8-8" laps for sale. I'm trying to help out with the closing of an estate. If you're interested, stop by and see the machine. It seems to be in very good shape. The owner, due to health problems, had not used the machine in a good while. Dates: Friday, Saturday and Sunday, November 28-30, 2003 Hours: Friday - 10:00 am - 7:00 pm Saturday -10:00 am - 5:00 pm Sunday - 12:00 am - 5:00 pm Location: Moore Building South Carolina Fairgrounds 1200 Rosewood Dr. Columbia, SC Hope to see you there! Stop by and say "HI!" and introduce yourself. Maybe you'll even see something I have that you can't live without! John Teague Volunteer Gems Knoxville, Tennessee http://www.VolunteerGems.com From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 30 09:34:16 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sun Nov 30 09:34:16 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rotor clouds, + Space Station, etc. Message-ID: <112720031909.25441.139a@att.net> Hi, Rockhounds, I've enjoyed reading & seeing the posts and pictures about the lenticular and rotor clouds, etc., starting with Kitty & Bill's from Hawaii. The picture from the Hilo paper was great (still probably not quite as neat as what K&B saw), and I really enjoyed the link to the clouds & weather gallery photos, too. And, Kreigh, I appreciated your comments about the western Michigan clouds & weather, which I showed to my wife, Jane--some of you may recall, she's a Michigan native (from Albion--between Jackson/Lansing/Battle Creek) and really enjoys hearing about anything from up there. Of course, we see those lenticular & rotor clouds here along the Colorado Front Range ourselves quite often, as Bob L. has noted. While I'm writing I'm going to paste in & share a couple of other things that may be of interest. I periodically send out an email message--sort of an informal newsletter--to people "on my mailing list" from Colorado, about earth science events--lectures, field trips, minerals shows, etc.--taking place around here. Most of this isn't relevant to those of you outside the state, but sometimes I've shared some of the more "universal" interest things; a few of you (like Bob Loeffler) within CO, are already on my "local" mailing list. So, I'm pasting in below, two of these items from an email that I sent to this list yesterday, including (astonomically speaking) how the International Space Station is visible from many cities in the U.S. just after sunset this week, including good viewing tonight from Denver at 5:35 p.m. MST--for elsewhere, check the NASA website I've given below. I've deleted the items I had included about local mineral shows & club events, the last four days of the "Dino World Tour" exhibition now showing in Denver, and the fact that the USGS is giving out free out-of-date topo maps for use as Christmas wrapping paper, at our Map Sales offices in Denver, Reston VA, and Menlo Park CA. And I'll mention, that the last item on my list, below, is one that is perhaps more than a little bit controversial--as, I guess, anything relating to the tradeoffs between environmental ethics and exploitation of resources by our society, must needs be? (Although this one is not about mineral resources.) So go to that website if you care to, and see what you think of it. * Thanksgiving Space Station viewing! This week, the International Space Station is readily visible each night (some nights better than others) as it transits over Colorado shortly after dusk. You can see a table of exact times and directions for any location in the country at the NASA Human Spaceflight website, http://spaceflight1.nasa.gov/realdata/sightings/ I know this works, because I watched the ISS pass over last night (Tuesday) at 6:03 p.m., and it was just about the brightest object in the sky! On some passes you'll see the space station suddenly "wink out" as it moves eastward into the Earth's shadow. The best sighting will be on Thursday (T-Day), at 5:35 p.m., when it will be visible for about 3 minutes, maximum elevation 24 degrees, travelling NW to NNE. Friday at 6:08 p.m. it will be visible for 2 minutes but only 12 degrees maximum above the horizon, and tonight (Wednesday Nov. 26) visible for only 1 minute at 5:03 p.m. and <1 minute at 6:36 p.m. * And, my last note, somewhat "off topic" unless the topic be Society and Environment, is the website noted below, which is both amusing, thought-provoking, and controversial. I'll leave it up to the educators on my list, whether this might be appropriate to show to any of their classes!: >>(Fw as received from elsewhere) >>This is an interesting animation that I think will spark the interest of >>teens in where our meat comes from. While not everyone will agree with >>this animation, I think the opportunity to get teens engaged in >>discussion, and perhaps move them to action, or at least get thinking >>about this issue, makes it worthwhile to share in the classroom. >>http://www.themeatrix.com >>This is a wee bit political, but does provide food for thought. >>(understatement, pun intended) Best regards and best wishes to everyone, for Thanksgiving from here in the Denver, Colorado area. Today is very nice--sunny, clear and cold; a bit of snow left on the ground from our storm last weekend, and it isn't warm enough today to melt any of it. Sincerely, Pete Modreski From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 30 09:34:21 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sun Nov 30 09:34:21 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] puzzled over how the list administrator accepts mail Message-ID: <112720032020.25260.4805@att.net> Hi, Rockhounds, Pete here, from Denver, and I'm just expressing some puzzlement & mild frustration over how exactly the "rockhounds" lists does or doesn't recognize mail from me. I recently did some reprogramming of my home computer, and right now, I've been sending & receiving my email directly through the ATT Worldnet home page (my internet service provider), instead of through Microsoft Outlook Express, which is how I formerly had my email configured. I just posted a (nice, long) message to the Rockhounds list, in response to some of the "rotor clouds" and related messages. I was surprised to see, instead of my message appearing to the list, a message that because my message is perceived as coming from a non-list member, it must await approval by the list administrator for posting. Well, darn it, the message IS coming from me, from the same (pjmodreski@att.net) list address that I've always used, so I don't know why it isn't recognized as such; I guess, just because it isn't coming through the Outlook Express gateway as it used to??? Well, among other things, I had wanted to wish the people on the list a Happy Thanksgiving, and also to pass on about how the International Space Station has been visible from most of the U.S. shortly after dark all this week, including today (Thanksgiving) at 5:35 p.m. Denver time; you can find exact times for your city at the NASA Human Spaceflight website, http://spaceflight1.nasa.gov/realdata/sightings . Well, since it would nice if at least some humans read my message before a day or more has elapsed, I'm going to cc this message directly to several of you (Kitty, Kreigh, Bob, Margaret) who've been posting on the "rotor clouds" theme to Rockhounds! So, as I had wanted to say, Happy Thanksgiving to all, and you'll get the rest of my message, later. best regards (wish I were in Hawaii too, Kitty!), Pete Modreski From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 30 09:34:28 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sun Nov 30 09:34:28 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cherokee Mine Message-ID: <117.2c3d2f09.2cf81f7f@aol.com> I was looking for some information about the Cherokee Mine and came across your article. As I type, I am wearing a Cherokee diamond on my left hand. I also have a necklace with seven Cherokee diamonds in it. My great grandfather was a mining engineer who traveled with David Glass, one of the original owners of the mine. He helped nurse Mr. Glass back to health on the journey to Cherokee and in gratitude, Mr. Glass gave some of his mining rights to my great grandfather. These diamonds were set at Tiffany's in New York and I have documents of their authenticity. I still live in the Chico area and have been involved in the Butte County Historical Society. About two years ago, I was invited to give a talk to the society on my necklace and ring. There were about five of us who shared our Cherokee diamonds and their stories. They really are out there! Betsy --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 30 09:38:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Sun Nov 30 09:38:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] puzzled over how the list administrator accepts mail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry about the delay, all. It seems like problems arise when I'm away on vacation, or out in the field (running GPR looking for a fault with Holocene displacement in Canby, OR). Problem solved. I've added your generic att.net address to the "authenticated senders" list within the Rockhounds mailing list software. Mailman is picky about email addresses and sender authentication to prevent spam and virii, but it can sometimes be a bit stupid. Sorry about the problems, and the delay in getting them addressed. And no, I don't theink we found a fault. At least not until I can process the data (topographic correction, a migration, and NMO). Happy Thanksgiving (belated) Aaron > Hi all, > > Pete Modreski is having problems sending e-mails to the list (Aaron?), so > I'm forwarding his message until he gets it fixed. (see e-mail below) > > Bob Loeffler :) > Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster > North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) > http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ > and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) > > Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: > http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pjmodreski@att.net [mailto:pjmodreski@att.net] > Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 1:20 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Cc: Kreigh@Tomaszewski.net; bobl@peaktopeak.com; kahako@aloha.net; > kadok@infowest.com > Subject: puzzled over how the list administrator accepts mail > > Hi, Rockhounds, > > Pete here, from Denver, and I'm just expressing some puzzlement & mild > frustration over how exactly the "rockhounds" lists does or doesn't > recognize > mail from me. > > I recently did some reprogramming of my home computer, and right now, I've > been sending & receiving my email directly through the ATT Worldnet home > page > (my internet service provider), instead of through Microsoft Outlook > Express, > which is how I formerly had my email configured. I just posted a (nice, > long) message to the Rockhounds list, in response to some of the "rotor > clouds" and related messages. I was surprised to see, instead of my message > appearing to the list, a message that because my message is perceived as > coming from a non-list member, it must await approval by the list > administrator for posting. Well, darn it, the message IS coming from me, > from the same (pjmodreski@att.net) list address that I've always used, so I > don't know why it isn't recognized as such; I guess, just because it isn't > coming through the Outlook Express gateway as it used to??? Well, among > other things, I had wanted to wish the people on the list a Happy > Thanksgiving, and also to pass on about how the International Space Station > has been visible from most of the U.S. shortly after dark all this week, > including today (Thanksgiving) at 5:35 p.m. Denver time; you can find exact > times for your city at the NASA Human Spaceflight website, > http://spaceflight1.nasa.gov/realdata/sightings . > > Well, since it would nice if at least some humans read my message before a > day or more has elapsed, I'm going to cc this message directly to several of > you (Kitty, Kreigh, Bob, Margaret) who've been posting on the "rotor clouds" > theme to Rockhounds! So, as I had wanted to say, Happy Thanksgiving to all, > and you'll get the rest of my message, later. > > best regards (wish I were in Hawaii too, Kitty!), > Pete Modreski > > -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox Highway Patrolman: "Sir, do you know how fast you were going?" Heisenberg: "No, but I know EXACTLY where I was!" From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 30 17:02:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Nov 30 17:02:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rotor clouds References: <3FC58D92.3585@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <3FCA92DF.7DEE@Tomaszewski.net> If you want to see the cloud that Kitty talked about, I've posted a couple of her pictures of it at http://Tomaszewski.net/~Heacox/Index.shtml Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > Bob Loeffler wrote: > > Bob Loeffler wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > > > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill > > > Heacox > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 2:35 PM > > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Rotor clouds > > > > > > Hi List, > > > > > > This isn't about rocks, but it is science, and involves mountains. (Note: > > I > > > have not been able to yet. If our pictures turn out to be any good I'll > > > ask Kreigh if he would be willing to post them. > > > > > > Aloha, and Happy Thanksgiving to all those who celebrate this holiday. > > > > > > Kitty From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 30 17:33:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sun Nov 30 17:33:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rotor clouds Message-ID: <1ef.148fe754.2cfbf425@aol.com> WOW!! What else can one say! Those are amazing!! There is another name for those saucer shaped clouds..if I can find my sky/weather/cloud book..I'll see what it says. Those pictures are breathtaking! Thanks for sharing them so we could see them! Jackie In a message dated 11/30/03 8:02:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, Kreigh@Tomaszewski.net writes: > If you want to see the cloud that Kitty talked about, I've posted a > couple of her pictures of it at > > http://Tomaszewski.net/~Heacox/Index.shtml --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 30 18:59:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Nov 30 18:59:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] lenticular clouds In-Reply-To: <1ef.148fe754.2cfbf425@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031130165824.023c3cb0@mail.aloha.net> As was cited earlier, http://www.inclouds.com/Wx/clouds2.html confirms that what we saw were not rotor clouds, but very high and very large altocumulus lenticular clouds. It was our mistake to call them rotor clouds initially. Rotor clouds turn on an axis that is horizontal so the cloud looks like a cigar, or a rolled up rug. A common lenticular is lens-shaped, turns on a vertical axis, and looks like a small "flying saucer." The humongous ones we saw are characterized by the appearance of a stack of pancakes or a thick fuzzy disc and appear more like enormous doomsday alien space ships. They were so high that although we could see a spiral or vortex pattern, we could not perceive any movement. Glad you liked the pictures! Aloha, Kittty At 03:32 PM 11/30/2003, you wrote: >WOW!! What else can one say! Those are amazing!! There is another name for >those saucer shaped clouds..if I can find my sky/weather/cloud book..I'll see >what it says. Those pictures are breathtaking! Thanks for sharing them >so we >could see them! > Jackie > >In a message dated 11/30/03 8:02:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, >Kreigh@Tomaszewski.net writes: > > > If you want to see the cloud that Kitty talked about, I've posted a > > couple of her pictures of it at > > > > http://Tomaszewski.net/~Heacox/Index.shtml --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 30 19:09:00 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sun Nov 30 19:09:00 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] lenticular clouds Message-ID: <68.385bfb23.2cfc0a97@aol.com> Kitty i think your pictures were way better than the ones they had in the newspaper! Phenominal shots! Greg --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Nov 30 19:35:01 2003 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Powell) Date: Sun Nov 30 19:35:01 2003 Subject: [Rockhounds] Canadian Minerals Book Message-ID: <010f01c3b7bc$0b05ccd0$1d8869d1@6663r01> Dear Rockhounds, Can someone on the list recommend a good book on Canadian minerals? = I am sure there are a number of them but don't know which would be a top = quality book that combines good photographs with locality and specimen = information. Thanks to all for any input. Much appreciated. Peace. Darryl Powell Manchester, New York --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html ---