From magnet at crocoite.com Wed Dec 1 01:49:59 2004 From: magnet at crocoite.com (magnet) Date: Wed Dec 1 01:53:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Mineral Publication... Message-ID: <20041201094959.7666.qmail@webmachine101.com> Hi all I received an email yesterday from Granit Publishing (publishers of the excellent Minerals of the Carpathians). They are about to publish a new book - Minerals and their Localities by Jan H. Bernard and Jaroslav Hyršl. The book is edited by Vandall King (great job Van by the way). I have uploaded the pdf files that they sent me that provide more information (beware, one is over 750k, the other "only" 125k). You can find these at: http://www.crocoite.com/granite1.pdf (125k) http://www.crocoite.com/granite2.pdf (750k) I have already placed my order and look forward to receiving my copy. Regards Steve --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From magnet at crocoite.com Wed Dec 1 02:02:16 2004 From: magnet at crocoite.com (magnet) Date: Wed Dec 1 02:06:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Clinoclase from Chile Message-ID: <20041201100216.9808.qmail@webmachine101.com> Hi Pete Clinoclase is quite distinctive in terms of colour (blue-green) and habit (tabular prismatic) (see http://www.mindat.org/min-1055.html) and very different to connellite (http://www.mindat.org/min-1120.html) which tends to be usually acicular sprays or balls in habit, and a different blue. You should be able to determine which species visually. As for the locality, no can help, although the area is a copper mining district. Regards Steve -------Original Message------- > From: Pete Richards > Subject: [Rockhounds] Clinoclase from Chile > Sent: 30 Nov 2004 03:54:51 > > At the recent symposium of the Cleveland Micromineral Society, I picked up a sample that claims to be clinoclase from Amolanus District, Coya, Chile, but I have become suspicious that the locality and/or the identity are wrong. It shows tiny long prisms of a dark blue color. They look very similar to another specimen I have of connellite, not clinoclase, from the Gold Hill Mine, Tooele County, Utah. I find minimal evidence of clinoclase from Chile (i.e. clinoclase is listed in the Szenecs collection of Chilean minerals in the R&M article in Jan. 2003 but I find no other references), or of the existence of Amolanus District, although Coya shows up in a google search in association with mining. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dguin at earthlink.net Wed Dec 1 06:50:35 2004 From: dguin at earthlink.net (Dave Guin) Date: Wed Dec 1 06:51:06 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cabelas - tumblers In-Reply-To: <7C6412DB-435C-11D9-8713-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> References: <7C6412DB-435C-11D9-8713-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <41ADDA3B.5040006@earthlink.net> Lanny wrote: > > > However, today the Cabelas Christmas catalog arrived and it has three > models of rock tumblers. That was a surprise. Good looking machines. > Maybe the hunters and fishers pick up pebbles while they wait... Although they may indeed pick up a rock or two, reloaders use these to clean their brass shells. Peace, dave From XtalRabbit at aol.com Wed Dec 1 06:59:22 2004 From: XtalRabbit at aol.com (XtalRabbit@aol.com) Date: Wed Dec 1 06:59:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cabelas - tumblers Message-ID: <75.397f83a0.2edf364a@aol.com> Don't Reloaders (shooters who reload their used shells) use tumblers to clean shell casings prior to reloading them? Lynn --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From danielz at acmenet.net Wed Dec 1 07:05:51 2004 From: danielz at acmenet.net (Dan Z) Date: Wed Dec 1 07:05:49 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cabelas - tumblers References: <7C6412DB-435C-11D9-8713-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <41ADDA3B.5040006@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000301c4d7b7$3f8fc430$6401a8c0@M1Garand> I am not familiar with the Cabela's models, however in most cases there are differences between vibratory tumblers designed for metals such as brass and those designed for rock. The models designed for rock generally have a larger, more durable motor able to handle the weight. They also usually have a barrel with a higher rubber content to prevent rapid wear and help keep the silicon carbide grit (not used with metals) from imbedding into the barrel. These are the reasons why a vibrating tumbler sold for reloading purposes is usually much cheaper than one sold for processing rock. Thus I use a Hornaday vibrator to tumble my brass, and a Raytech to tumble the rocks. -dan z- - - Protect your civil rights! Let the politicians know how you feel. Join or donate to the NRA today! http://membership.nrahq.org/default.asp?campaignid=XR014887 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Guin" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cabelas - tumblers > Lanny wrote: > > > > > > > However, today the Cabelas Christmas catalog arrived and it has three > > models of rock tumblers. That was a surprise. Good looking machines. > > Maybe the hunters and fishers pick up pebbles while they wait... > > Although they may indeed pick up a rock or two, reloaders use these to > clean their brass shells. > > Peace, > dave > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From Docia1154 at aol.com Wed Dec 1 07:25:29 2004 From: Docia1154 at aol.com (Docia1154@aol.com) Date: Wed Dec 1 07:25:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cabelas - tumblers Message-ID: In a message dated 11/30/2004 11:46:39 PM Central Standard Time, lanny@lrream.com writes: However, today the Cabelas Christmas catalog arrived and it has three models of rock tumblers. That was a surprise. Good looking machines. Maybe the hunters and fishers pick up pebbles while they wait... Not only do we pick up rocks, minerals, fossils and the occassional pebble while out hunting and fishing (especially fishing - we get into some good stuff in remote coves on lakes etc), but it also a great gift to give to kids to get them involved outdoors. My husband and I both love being outdoors, period. We hunt and fish in season and in between we go rock hounding - find places to go while hunting and fishing. So it is a great cross over for us. and long johns are a good buy for the rock hounder for the colder months and also a lot of the rock hounds that I know are also campers. For many of us, being out doors enjoying nature is an all inclusive thing. you might also look at some of the fanny type packs that hunters use - some come with 3 or 4 different sacklike pieces around the belt. Can hold tools or snacks and of course the special specimens that you want to watch over. and of course anyone who goes out rock hounding in deer gun season should also buy an orange hat and vest - for safety. Docia --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tam2819 at cox.net Wed Dec 1 07:52:27 2004 From: tam2819 at cox.net (T.A.Masters) Date: Wed Dec 1 07:52:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cabelas - tumblers References: Message-ID: <41ADE8BB.6050708@cox.net> Don't overlook the fact that these tumblers represent quite a saving for those of us who work in metals. They do a fantastic job finishing and deburring silver and gold jewelry, in addition to the traditional use of brass and copper. There was a comment couple of days ago on Orchid to the effect that polishing wheels are no longer necessary. Rather than spending time at the wheels, the pieces go into the tumbler and the fabricator can go back to the bench. These tumblers are a double value, they are far less expensive than those sold within the jewelry industry, and time returned to the bench. I bought tumblers from another outfitter company, Midway, even bought one for the class I was attending. Terrie From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Dec 1 08:16:35 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Dec 1 08:16:33 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealistic fainthearted pebble-picking amateur{was: British Columbia} In-Reply-To: <41AD0A29.6B72@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Kreigh wrote: I think you demean this list. Most of us have moved our unrealistic dreams well beyond fainthearted pebbles to large boulders (or even to hard rock). We may have once been pebble pups, but now we are incurable Rockhounds. Axel: No way Kreigh... I haven't yet reached the stage of unrealistic fainthearted pebble-picking amateur myself. Usually it's my wife or kids who find the nice stuff while I stand aside and stare in the wrong direction, theorizing where the neat stuff should be hidden by some exotic geological process... Usually I just buy my specimens ;-)))) I do make an exception for specimens that are large enough to trip over or bump into. I usually find those myself despite the warning shouts and gesticulations of my dear family... In fact, once I get into the wild (as far as Belgium has any of that left) the smartest thing I can do is to sit down and unleash my wife and kids upon the locality. Less pain, more specimens... What can I say, I'm a cerebral collector. Cheers Axel PS: since I collect fluorescent minerals, one should be aware that falling over and bumping into rocks is less shameful in the dark of night. From lanny at lrream.com Wed Dec 1 09:14:39 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Wed Dec 1 09:13:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cabelas - tumblers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7C23410B-43BC-11D9-8713-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> I guess I should have explained a little more. The tumblers are labeled in the Cabelas catalog as "Cabelas Rock Polishers." Maybe I'm misreading reading that title, but it just doesn't suggest to me that they are advertising them for tumbling brass. Now that I look at them closer, they appear to have good rubber barrels, but the frames and shafts don't look all that sturdy. The shafts are in nylon bushings, not bearings. As to the long johns, yes very useful. Wish I'd brought mine with me last May (which is supposed to be warm in central Idaho) while we had the trackhoe on the Rat's Nest and Summer Storm claims in all that cold, snow and wind. My comment in the original message was just a tongue in cheek poke at all the camouflage items in Cabelas' catalogs. Especially considering that three hunters were shot in northern Idaho in the first month of this hunting season, none of them wearing hunter orange, you certainly aren't going to see me out in the field (mineral collecting, fishing or hunting) during hunting season wearing camo! I wouldn't even trust the bow hunters or black powder hunters, even though they don't seem to shoot each other and apparently can distinguish a human in any kind of clothes from a deer (in any kind of clothes) as compared to some of those who use rifles. As a former hunter, and still a fisherman, I give up mineral collecting when hunting season starts, except for visiting locations easily accessible and out in the open. There are a lot of outdoor items in Cabelas and the other suppliers that are useful to rockhounds and anyone who goes outdoors. I'd post my Christmas list, but you'd all get bored... Regards, Lanny On Dec 1, 2004, at 7:25 AM, Docia1154@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/30/2004 11:46:39 PM Central Standard Time, > lanny@lrream.com writes: > However, today the Cabelas Christmas catalog arrived and it has three > models of rock tumblers. That was a surprise. Good looking machines. > Maybe the hunters and fishers pick up pebbles while they wait... > Not only do we pick up rocks, minerals, fossils and the occassional > pebble > while out hunting and fishing (especially fishing - we get into some > good stuff > in remote coves on lakes etc), but it also a great gift to give to > kids to get > them involved outdoors. My husband and I both love being outdoors, > period. > We hunt and fish in season and in between we go rock hounding - find > places to > go while hunting and fishing. So it is a great cross over for us. > > and long johns are a good buy for the rock hounder for the colder > months and > also a lot of the rock hounds that I know are also campers. For many > of us, > being out doors enjoying nature is an all inclusive thing. > > you might also look at some of the fanny type packs that hunters use - > some > come with 3 or 4 different sacklike pieces around the belt. Can hold > tools or > snacks and of course the special specimens that you want to watch over. > > and of course anyone who goes out rock hounding in deer gun season > should > also buy an orange hat and vest - for safety. > > Docia > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From kadok at infowest.com Wed Dec 1 22:07:06 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Wed Dec 1 22:07:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unrealistic fainthearted pebble-picking amateurs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041202060710.8D61CCBA8A6@delivery.infowest.com> I couldn't admit to that either! That would be unrealistic! }:>]] >OK, would you rather be a REALISTIC fainthearted pebble-picking amateur then? (LOL) axel >>Who? Me? I never will admit to it! [:<}} _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kadok at infowest.com Wed Dec 1 22:21:06 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Wed Dec 1 22:21:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cabelas - tumblers In-Reply-To: <7C6412DB-435C-11D9-8713-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <20041202062109.D3AFDCB9649@delivery.infowest.com> Lanny -- they use them to clean their "brass" before reloading it. Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Lanny Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 10:47 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com:A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Cabelas - tumblers I was wondering if anyone else saw these - I've ordered an odd thing or two from Cabelas (a large outdoor/hunting/fishing/camping supplier for those not familiar with the company), so they now think I need a copy of every catalog they publish. No! I don't need camouflage tents, truck covers or long johns! However, today the Cabelas Christmas catalog arrived and it has three models of rock tumblers. That was a surprise. Good looking machines. Maybe the hunters and fishers pick up pebbles while they wait... Lanny _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pchil at botsnet.bw Thu Dec 2 02:02:01 2004 From: pchil at botsnet.bw (P.C. Hulley) Date: Thu Dec 2 01:40:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealistic fainthearted pebble-picking amateur{was: British Columbia} References: <41AD0A29.6B72@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <007001c4d856$1656f080$2848a7a8@hulley> Take out the "faint hearted" and yes, that would include me as well! Hildagarde Hulley ----- Original Message ----- From: Kreigh Tomaszewski To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 2:05 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealistic fainthearted pebble-picking amateur{was: British Columbia} > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > Hello list > > > > a friend of mine is going on vacation in British Columbia this summer. > > He's a seasoned professional mineralogist with lots of experience...not > > just another unrealistic fainthearted pebble-picking amateur > > Axel, > > I think you demean this list. Most of us have moved our unrealistic > dreams well beyond fainthearted pebbles to large boulders (or even to > hard rock). We may have once been pebble pups, but now we are incurable > Rockhounds. > > Kreigh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Dec 2 01:55:02 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Dec 2 01:54:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Was Unrealistic ...-picking amateurs now: real fainted In-Reply-To: <20041202060710.8D61CCBA8A6@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: OK, Margaret... playing it tough, hu? Very well, last try: What about a "real fainted unheartistic (sounds like "unartistic") amateur-Pekinese" ... Roar, woof. Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm Verzonden: donderdag 2 december 2004 7:07 Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Unrealistic fainthearted pebble-picking amateurs I couldn't admit to that either! That would be unrealistic! }:>]] >OK, would you rather be a REALISTIC fainthearted pebble-picking amateur then? (LOL) axel >>Who? Me? I never will admit to it! [:<}} _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Dec 2 02:16:21 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Dec 2 02:16:20 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealistic fainthearted pebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} In-Reply-To: <007001c4d856$1656f080$2848a7a8@hulley> Message-ID: Nothing wrong with fainthearted Hildagarde... I'm perectly capable of staring down anything ranging from a mouse to a Flemish Giant (a giant rabbit hat can weigh up to 12 pounds)... still, anything alive (regardless of size) that has more than 4 legs and 2 eyes triggers a Pavlovian fleeing reflex in my brain. I once was hacking away at an innocent Austrian boulder in an Austrian meadow, when I noticed that a rather big (at LEAST 5 mm!) spider was crawling up on my leg. The boulder had some strongly fluorescent calcite layers in it, so I wanted it bad. I broke two world records that day: the world record pole vaulting was crushed. I did it without the running and without the pole but still... an 18 ft jump from a crouching position isn't bad. After that, I ran 100 yards without even touching the grass in just under two milliseconds. It took my wife's breath away... the laughter, I mean. Cheers axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens P.C. Hulley Verzonden: donderdag 2 december 2004 11:02 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealistic fainthearted pebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} Take out the "faint hearted" and yes, that would include me as well! Hildagarde Hulley ----- Original Message ----- From: Kreigh Tomaszewski To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 2:05 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealistic fainthearted pebble-picking amateur{was: British Columbia} > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > Hello list > > > > a friend of mine is going on vacation in British Columbia this summer. > > He's a seasoned professional mineralogist with lots of experience...not > > just another unrealistic fainthearted pebble-picking amateur > > Axel, > > I think you demean this list. Most of us have moved our unrealistic > dreams well beyond fainthearted pebbles to large boulders (or even to > hard rock). We may have once been pebble pups, but now we are incurable > Rockhounds. > > Kreigh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From magnet at crocoite.com Thu Dec 2 02:18:47 2004 From: magnet at crocoite.com (magnet) Date: Thu Dec 2 02:23:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Blatant Ad! But not to be missed... Message-ID: <20041202101847.79.qmail@webmachine101.com> Hi all If you are after a 2005 mineral-related calendar, don't forget my New Zealand one - http://www.crocoite.com/2005calendar.htm Also, I recently created a logo for my artwork using my email tag of "SmartArts" and I have created a few pieces of merchandise at CafePress with this logo on (received my mug, mousemat and t-shirt this week). They look good (even if I do say so myself). Check out the range at http://www.crocoite.com/merchandise.htm Regards Steve --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Thu Dec 2 07:51:58 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Dec 2 07:52:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Blatant Ad! But not to be missed... In-Reply-To: <20041202101847.79.qmail@webmachine101.com> Message-ID: <200412021552.iB2Fq9Xr012731@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Hey, Steve... COOL logo! GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of magnet > Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 4:19 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: [Rockhounds] Blatant Ad! But not to be missed... > > Hi all > > If you are after a 2005 mineral-related calendar, don't > forget my New Zealand one - http://www.crocoite.com/2005calendar.htm > > Also, I recently created a logo for my artwork using my email > tag of "SmartArts" and I have created a few pieces of > merchandise at CafePress with this logo on (received my mug, > mousemat and t-shirt this week). > > They look good (even if I do say so myself). Check out the > range at http://www.crocoite.com/merchandise.htm > > Regards > Steve > From kadok at infowest.com Thu Dec 2 09:46:30 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Thu Dec 2 09:46:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Was Unrealistic ...-picking amateurs now: realfainted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041202174634.2228FCBA99C@delivery.infowest.com> OK, Axel. I give up! LOL Margaret OK, Margaret... playing it tough, hu? Very well, last try: What about a "real fainted unheartistic (sounds like "unartistic") amateur-Pekinese" ... Roar, woof. Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm Verzonden: donderdag 2 december 2004 7:07 Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Unrealistic fainthearted pebble-picking amateurs I couldn't admit to that either! That would be unrealistic! }:>]] >OK, would you rather be a REALISTIC fainthearted pebble-picking amateur then? (LOL) axel >>Who? Me? I never will admit to it! [:<}} _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From slb at headofthetide.com Thu Dec 2 12:28:55 2004 From: slb at headofthetide.com (Sally Baldwin) Date: Thu Dec 2 12:29:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Introduction of newbie Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20041202150159.01f18408@mail.adelphia.net> Hi, I've been lurking for a little while, and I guess it's time to stick my head out of the closet and tell you I'm here. I live in Belfast, Maine with my husband of nearly eight years (we met via the internet that long ago, and moved to Maine to retire). We like to drive to places in the Bay of Fundy, and I began to notice that all my windowsills were filling up with nice smooth beach rocks, generally of volcanic origin... and lately I got into picking up some specimens on eBay. And I unpacked a little box of specimens I'd bought oh maybe 45 years ago, when I lived in Manhattan and passed by Walker's Minerals on my way home from work. Ok, I'm an unrealistic pebble-picker-upper, more faint of knee and back than of heart. I've bought some books and started learning about atoms and stuff (better late than never) and got a microscope (I don't think I've ever been without a loupe in my adult life, but now I have three)... I know I lack the muscle and particularly the joints to ever be a digger, but I sure enjoy the heck out of looking and marvelling. Where we live in Maine is halfway up the coast, several hours from the good collecting places in the western part of the state. But when springtime comes again -- and reason and experience assure me that it will -- I'd like to go exploring there. My husband is a ham radio type, and likes geo-caching, so I can generally get him to go along with doing things like that. But it will have to be to places that we can drive right up to, and require very little walking to get to, since I'm, oh, vertically challenged. I just did want to add to the collection/museum thread that nowadays most institutions ask that you make a sizeable donation along with your good stuff, in order to fund the curatorial work involved. Kind of sad, isn't it? The corporate attitude strikes again. I imagine any number of places will start deaccessioning a percentage of their unfunded and underappreciated holdings. I REALLY like the idea of giving stuff to high schools and universities to be used or studied in the classrooms and departments. Cheers to all, and thank you for making me realize that I'm not the only person with stones all over the bathroom! Sally Baldwin From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Thu Dec 2 13:17:21 2004 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Thu Dec 2 13:17:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] museum donations In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20041202150159.01f18408@mail.adelphia.net> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20041202150159.01f18408@mail.adelphia.net> Message-ID: <41AF8661.7010400@xs4all.nl> Welcome Sally > I just did want to add to the collection/museum thread that nowadays > most institutions ask that you make a sizeable donation along with > your good stuff, in order to fund the curatorial work involved. Kind > of sad, isn't it? I think that most musea are really not interested in the average private collection. Let's throw away your own pride and look at your own collection.... How many specimen are REALLY one of a kind ? Of my humble collection of about 4000 (mainly systematic) minerals are only a hand full of very rare species that could be of interest as study material. And even than, what can the Rock and Crystal museum is god know where do with a micromount of say Cejkaite? So when you donate your precious collection to a museum 99.9 if not 100% will end up in the museum storage facility. There it is only an addition to the bulk. It has to be archived and stored in boxes. It takes up time and room, thus money. In the past people who donated their collection could state specific conditions of such a donation. Like 'it is not allowed to split up this collection'. Or 'this collection must be in the museum for ever' . Great.... I know instances where relatives came checking every once in a while where granddaddy's rocks where!!! So if you want that your rocks live on long after you, just SELL your rocks on the open market. That way they will end up in private collections, where they are much more valued that in a box upon a shelve under stratified layers of museum-depot dust. Cheers, Maurice From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Thu Dec 2 17:08:17 2004 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Linda Rasmussen) Date: Thu Dec 2 17:09:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealistic faintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} References: Message-ID: <00fd01c4d8d4$96422480$6a5fe842@pavilion> Axel, I'm still laughing. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: Axel Emmermann To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 3:16 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealistic faintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} > Nothing wrong with fainthearted Hildagarde... > I'm perectly capable of staring down anything ranging from a mouse to a > Flemish Giant (a giant rabbit hat can weigh up to 12 pounds)... still, > anything alive (regardless of size) that has more than 4 legs and 2 eyes > triggers a Pavlovian fleeing reflex in my brain. > > I once was hacking away at an innocent Austrian boulder in an Austrian > meadow, when I noticed that a rather big (at LEAST 5 mm!) spider was > crawling up on my leg. The boulder had some strongly fluorescent calcite > layers in it, so I wanted it bad. > I broke two world records that day: the world record pole vaulting was > crushed. I did it without the running and without the pole but still... an > 18 ft jump from a crouching position isn't bad. After that, I ran 100 yards > without even touching the grass in just under two milliseconds. It took my > wife's breath away... the laughter, I mean. > > Cheers > > axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens P.C. Hulley > Verzonden: donderdag 2 december 2004 11:02 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealistic fainthearted > pebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} > > > Take out the "faint hearted" and yes, that would include me as well! > > Hildagarde Hulley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 2:05 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealistic fainthearted pebble-picking > amateur{was: British Columbia} > > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > > > Hello list > > > > > > a friend of mine is going on vacation in British Columbia this summer. > > > He's a seasoned professional mineralogist with lots of experience...not > > > just another unrealistic fainthearted pebble-picking amateur > > > > Axel, > > > > I think you demean this list. Most of us have moved our unrealistic > > dreams well beyond fainthearted pebbles to large boulders (or even to > > hard rock). We may have once been pebble pups, but now we are incurable > > Rockhounds. > > > > Kreigh > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From johnjold at comcast.net Thu Dec 2 17:48:22 2004 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Thu Dec 2 17:48:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A real rockhound Message-ID: <6A70C2B8-44CD-11D9-9478-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> The Grand Rapids Michigan paper, tonight, reported the efforts of Virgil Liebrock and his excavator friend who last weekend unearthed a 50 ton glacial erratic in Gratiot County. "I just wanted to see how big it was, said Liebrock who collects rocks of all sizes to display in his yard. At 15 feet long, 10 feet wide and 71/2 feet high it is one of the largest geological specimens found in the area. The region was covered by 15,000 feet of ice in 4 to 6 distinct Ice Ages. That ice ripped the chunk out of the earth and slowly carried it hundreds of miles from Canada. The boulder was weighed by driving the heavy equipment trailer onto a grain elevator scale. It currently is sitting on the trailer in front of Greta's Kitchen in Merrill, Michigan. Virgil has turned down offers because he wants to see how it looks in front of his house. This is the first rockhounding effort I would call "monumental". From Gslrocks at aol.com Thu Dec 2 18:02:09 2004 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Thu Dec 2 18:02:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A real rockhound Message-ID: <157.452b5657.2ee12321@aol.com> i know a few pyrotechnician friends/farmers who in the midwest have augered front and behind, and with timed detonation launched such objects from fields into the woods! I think a bit smaller though probably the rock was only 10 x 6 x 6. They filled the holes with ANFO ammonium nitrate and fuel oil aka 2 part dynamite.. turned on the video camera blew the material away from the front side then setoff the charge behind and under the rock and launched it from its starting point about 400 ft plus putting it into a wooded section from the plowed field. It was quite an impressive video .. from the 1988 PGI " Pyrotecnics Guild International convention" in Gary Indianna. Greg Lesinski --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Dec 2 18:24:53 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Dec 2 18:25:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealistic faintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} References: Message-ID: <002d01c4d8df$465e2c60$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> ROTFL! Wonder what it is about itty bitty spiders that can send such big guys off like a rocket? My son-in-law has the same reaction. It NEVER bothers me to SEE a spider, especially when I've invaded HER domain and she runs out to protest the intrusion. It's the ones I don't see, like when I back into the big web of our resident banana spiders in the yard, and then can't find the resident spider. A superfast check of hair and clothes ensues.....sometimes a little hopping around and slapping of the neck....a little dance of the heebie jeebies.....who says I'm scared of spiders?? Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 4:16 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealistic faintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} > Nothing wrong with fainthearted Hildagarde... > I'm perectly capable of staring down anything ranging from a mouse to a > Flemish Giant (a giant rabbit hat can weigh up to 12 pounds)... still, > anything alive (regardless of size) that has more than 4 legs and 2 eyes > triggers a Pavlovian fleeing reflex in my brain. > > I once was hacking away at an innocent Austrian boulder in an Austrian > meadow, when I noticed that a rather big (at LEAST 5 mm!) spider was > crawling up on my leg. The boulder had some strongly fluorescent calcite > layers in it, so I wanted it bad. > I broke two world records that day: the world record pole vaulting was > crushed. I did it without the running and without the pole but still... an > 18 ft jump from a crouching position isn't bad. After that, I ran 100 yards > without even touching the grass in just under two milliseconds. It took my > wife's breath away... the laughter, I mean. > > Cheers > > axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens P.C. Hulley > Verzonden: donderdag 2 december 2004 11:02 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealistic fainthearted > pebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} > > > Take out the "faint hearted" and yes, that would include me as well! > > Hildagarde Hulley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 2:05 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealistic fainthearted pebble-picking > amateur{was: British Columbia} > > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > > > Hello list > > > > > > a friend of mine is going on vacation in British Columbia this summer. > > > He's a seasoned professional mineralogist with lots of experience...not > > > just another unrealistic fainthearted pebble-picking amateur > > > > Axel, > > > > I think you demean this list. Most of us have moved our unrealistic > > dreams well beyond fainthearted pebbles to large boulders (or even to > > hard rock). We may have once been pebble pups, but now we are incurable > > Rockhounds. > > > > Kreigh > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Dec 2 18:39:33 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Dec 2 18:39:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Introduction of newbie References: <6.0.3.0.2.20041202150159.01f18408@mail.adelphia.net> Message-ID: <004801c4d8e1$534b46e0$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> Welcome! and we're happy to have you come out of lurk mode and introduce your self. I'm just wondering if many of you can actually see the top of your kitchen counters.....mine's covered at the moment with the latest acquisitions, and the ALL-U-NEED and various works in progress... Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sally Baldwin" To: Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 2:28 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Introduction of newbie > Hi, I've been lurking for a little while, and I guess it's time to stick my > head out of the closet and tell you I'm here. > > I live in Belfast, Maine with my husband of nearly eight years (we met via > the internet that long ago, and moved to Maine to retire). We like to > drive to places in the Bay of Fundy, and I began to notice that all my > windowsills were filling up with nice smooth beach rocks, generally of > volcanic origin... and lately I got into picking up some specimens on > eBay. And I unpacked a little box of specimens I'd bought oh maybe 45 > years ago, when I lived in Manhattan and passed by Walker's Minerals on my > way home from work. > > Ok, I'm an unrealistic pebble-picker-upper, more faint of knee and back > than of heart. I've bought some books and started learning about atoms and > stuff (better late than never) and got a microscope (I don't think I've > ever been without a loupe in my adult life, but now I have three)... I > know I lack the muscle and particularly the joints to ever be a digger, but > I sure enjoy the heck out of looking and marvelling. > > Where we live in Maine is halfway up the coast, several hours from the good > collecting places in the western part of the state. But when springtime > comes again -- and reason and experience assure me that it will -- I'd like > to go exploring there. My husband is a ham radio type, and likes > geo-caching, so I can generally get him to go along with doing things like > that. But it will have to be to places that we can drive right up to, and > require very little walking to get to, since I'm, oh, vertically challenged. > > I just did want to add to the collection/museum thread that nowadays most > institutions ask that you make a sizeable donation along with your good > stuff, in order to fund the curatorial work involved. Kind of sad, isn't > it? The corporate attitude strikes again. I imagine any number of places > will start deaccessioning a percentage of their unfunded and > underappreciated holdings. I REALLY like the idea of giving stuff to high > schools and universities to be used or studied in the classrooms and > departments. > > Cheers to all, and thank you for making me realize that I'm not the only > person with stones all over the bathroom! > > Sally Baldwin > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From morningstar at att.net Thu Dec 2 18:49:22 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Thu Dec 2 18:48:49 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Introduction of newbie In-Reply-To: <004801c4d8e1$534b46e0$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20041202150159.01f18408@mail.adelphia.net> <004801c4d8e1$534b46e0$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <41AFD432.7090502@att.net> Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > Welcome! and we're happy to have you come out of lurk mode and introduce > your self. > I'm just wondering if many of you can actually see the top of your kitchen > counters.....mine's covered at the moment with the latest acquisitions, and > the ALL-U-NEED and various works in progress... We've done this before . . . but let's get it on again . . . Mine are under the bed, in the closet, on the bedroom floor, in the shed, in the car, in the kitchen, in the kitchen cabinets, in the breakfront, in the laundry room, in the living room, in the walk-in closet, all over the kitchen counter, in the bathroom, and have been in the tub and the refrigerator . . . plus I bought a friend of mine some shelving units, two of which are for me to put some there. Don From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Thu Dec 2 18:51:16 2004 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Thu Dec 2 18:53:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cabelas - tumblers References: <7C6412DB-435C-11D9-8713-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <41ADDA3B.5040006@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <001401c4d8e2$f7c7ee20$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Dave wrote: "Although they may indeed pick up a rock or two, reloaders use these to clean their brass shells." Dave, The brass is normally from rifle or pistol "cartridges".... "shells" are mostly for shotguns and are made primarily of plastic, unless you are referring to the military's big artillery "shells", which sure will not fit in a rock tumbler unless it is one humongous tumbler! LOL!!!! (No flame intended.) Defense, Glenn > Lanny wrote: > > > However, today the Cabelas Christmas catalog arrived and it has three > > models of rock tumblers. That was a surprise. Good looking machines. > > Maybe the hunters and fishers pick up pebbles while they wait... > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Gslrocks at aol.com Thu Dec 2 19:02:27 2004 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Thu Dec 2 19:02:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Introduction of newbie Message-ID: Hello there! Welcome i love collecting in Maine and the many friends we have up there. As far as rocks and bathrooms.. ROFL WE COVERED THAT ONE on the fluorescent minerals list...lol I am probably one of the craziest people in that aspect. besides rocks in very room, plus garage , driveway and outdoor and indoor racking. We have gone on a trip to West Pierrepont NY to collect at night> Then just decide to show up at our friends house in South Paris Maine to visit and go collecting after we had a few cups of coffee Easter sunday morning. Lots of driving great times and good friends made it one of the most enjoyable trips we have had. Greg Lesinski Greg Lesinski GSLROCKS 4726 Porter Center Rd. Lewiston NY 14092 Fluorescent minerals, ultraviolet lamps and reference books website www.gslrocks.com GSLROCKS@AOL.COM 716-754-9729 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Dec 2 19:05:59 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Dec 2 19:06:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lack of counterspace References: <6.0.3.0.2.20041202150159.01f18408@mail.adelphia.net><004801c4d8e1$534b46e0$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> <41AFD432.7090502@att.net> Message-ID: <007701c4d8e5$04611c40$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> I know we've been through all the places we have stashed our rocks. I was just wondering how many of us right now can actually see the countertop in the kitchen.....so I can tell Glenn...SEE! I'm not the only one!! Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don H" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 8:49 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Introduction of newbie > Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > > > Welcome! and we're happy to have you come out of lurk mode and introduce > > your self. > > I'm just wondering if many of you can actually see the top of your kitchen > > counters.....mine's covered at the moment with the latest acquisitions, and > > the ALL-U-NEED and various works in progress... > > We've done this before . . . but let's get it on again . . . > > Mine are under the bed, in the closet, on the bedroom floor, in the > shed, in the car, in the kitchen, in the kitchen cabinets, in the > breakfront, in the laundry room, in the living room, in the walk-in > closet, all over the kitchen counter, in the bathroom, and have been in > the tub and the refrigerator . . . plus I bought a friend of mine some > shelving units, two of which are for me to put some there. > > Don > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From danielz at acmenet.net Thu Dec 2 19:27:56 2004 From: danielz at acmenet.net (Dan Z) Date: Thu Dec 2 19:27:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cabelas - tumblers References: <7C6412DB-435C-11D9-8713-000393AC22E6@lrream.com><41ADDA3B.5040006@earthlink.net> <001401c4d8e2$f7c7ee20$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <000301c4d8e8$15236530$6401a8c0@M1Garand> Ok, let's be real technical. The brass IS the cartridge. It is from a round of pistol or rifle ammunition. The cartridge usually holds the powder, primer and bullet -- all four of which together comprise a round of ammo. But to get back to the original thread - if Cabela's says their tumblers are capable of tumbling rock, then they must be of sufficient quality. However looking at their web page, I only see three labeled as rock tumblers, and all are of rotary design. The vibratory tumblers are labeled as "case tumblers" or are listed as using dry media, which means not rocks. (See http://tinyurl.com/4arar for the rock models, http://tinyurl.com/556xu for all models). I'm not familiar with these models, but the grit kit and pound of rough rock don't seem to be bargains. Better to buy from your local rock shop. -dan z- - - Protect your civil rights! Let the politicians know how you feel. Join or donate to the NRA today! http://membership.nrahq.org/default.asp?campaignid=XR014887 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Wimpee" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cabelas - tumblers Dave wrote: "Although they may indeed pick up a rock or two, reloaders use these to clean their brass shells." Dave, The brass is normally from rifle or pistol "cartridges".... "shells" are mostly for shotguns and are made primarily of plastic, unless you are referring to the military's big artillery "shells", which sure will not fit in a rock tumbler unless it is one humongous tumbler! LOL!!!! (No flame intended.) Defense, Glenn > Lanny wrote: > > > However, today the Cabelas Christmas catalog arrived and it has three > > models of rock tumblers. That was a surprise. Good looking machines. > > Maybe the hunters and fishers pick up pebbles while they wait... > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From morningstar at att.net Thu Dec 2 19:35:57 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Thu Dec 2 19:35:20 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lack of counterspace In-Reply-To: <007701c4d8e5$04611c40$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20041202150159.01f18408@mail.adelphia.net><004801c4d8e1$534b46e0$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> <41AFD432.7090502@att.net> <007701c4d8e5$04611c40$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <41AFDF1D.2070708@att.net> Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > I know we've been through all the places we have stashed our rocks. I was > just wondering how many of us right now can actually see the countertop in > the kitchen.....so I can tell Glenn...SEE! I'm not the only one!! > Jeanette Aha . . . well, I pretty much cannot. In addition to minerals, there are papers, chemicals, hydrated microenvironments for my chalcophyllite, vitamins, ping-pong-ball closest-packed crystal models, CDs, and tea. There is enough room in front of the microwave to open the door. I haven't seen the stove top in months. Don From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Dec 2 20:22:09 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Dec 2 20:22:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A real rockhound References: <6A70C2B8-44CD-11D9-9478-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> Message-ID: <41AFE9EB.13AF@Tomaszewski.net> Hey John, ya beat me to posting this one from our local paper. Had some stuff to get done before looking to my email. The article also mentions that he first 'had to dig it out just to find out how big it was', and that it probably came to Michigan from Canada. There is a great picture of him leaning on the muddy boulder, still sitting on the monster flatbed used to transport it. My wife said it was too big for our yard, so don't even start thinking in that direction -- besides, the front yard is her domain. My kids wanted to know what his wife thought, and wished he had powerwashed it before the picture. It is not for the faint of heart to pick up 50 ton pebbles and bring them home. Kreigh John Joldersma wrote: > > The Grand Rapids Michigan paper, tonight, reported the efforts of > Virgil Liebrock and his excavator friend who last weekend unearthed > a 50 ton glacial erratic in Gratiot County. "I just wanted to see how > big > it was, said Liebrock who collects rocks of all sizes to display in his > yard. > At 15 feet long, 10 feet wide and 71/2 feet high it is one of the > largest > geological specimens found in the area. The region was covered by > 15,000 feet of ice in 4 to 6 distinct Ice Ages. That ice ripped the > chunk > out of the earth and slowly carried it hundreds of miles from Canada. > The boulder was weighed by driving the heavy equipment trailer onto > a grain elevator scale. It currently is sitting on the trailer in > front of > Greta's Kitchen in Merrill, Michigan. Virgil has turned down offers > because he wants to see how it looks in front of his house. > This is the first rockhounding effort I would call "monumental". > From folmstead at rcn.com Thu Dec 2 20:46:43 2004 From: folmstead at rcn.com (Fred Olmstead) Date: Thu Dec 2 20:30:33 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 50 ton erratic In-Reply-To: <6A70C2B8-44CD-11D9-9478-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> References: <6A70C2B8-44CD-11D9-9478-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> Message-ID: <41AFEFB3.7000808@rcn.com> Hello..... This sounds interesting.... What is the name of the newspaper? I would like more information. Thank you GeorgiaO ___...---...___ John Joldersma wrote: > The Grand Rapids Michigan paper, tonight, reported the efforts of > Virgil Liebrock and his excavator friend who last weekend unearthed > a 50 ton glacial erratic in Gratiot County. "I just wanted to see how > big > it was, said Liebrock who collects rocks of all sizes to display in > his yard. > At 15 feet long, 10 feet wide and 71/2 feet high it is one of the largest > geological specimens found in the area. The region was covered by > 15,000 feet of ice in 4 to 6 distinct Ice Ages. That ice ripped the > chunk > out of the earth and slowly carried it hundreds of miles from Canada. > The boulder was weighed by driving the heavy equipment trailer onto > a grain elevator scale. It currently is sitting on the trailer in > front of > Greta's Kitchen in Merrill, Michigan. Virgil has turned down offers > because he wants to see how it looks in front of his house. > This is the first rockhounding effort I would call "monumental". > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Thu Dec 2 20:40:48 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Dec 2 20:40:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 50 ton erratic In-Reply-To: <41AFEFB3.7000808@rcn.com> Message-ID: <200412030440.iB34etkT020241@bubbleator.drizzle.com> My favorite erratic was one I spotted eons ago whilst looking for an old iron mine in the UP of Michigan. The thing was as big as a house! Way Cool... 50 tons? Tiny! GcB From kahako at aloha.net Thu Dec 2 21:23:29 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Dec 2 20:53:54 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lack of counterspace In-Reply-To: <41AFDF1D.2070708@att.net> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20041202150159.01f18408@mail.adelphia.net> <004801c4d8e1$534b46e0$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> <41AFD432.7090502@att.net> <007701c4d8e5$04611c40$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> <41AFDF1D.2070708@att.net> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041202190411.0424a7f0@mail.aloha.net> Don, Sounds like a bachelor pad. Do you have a wife, roommate, or "significant other"? Is she/he also a rockhound? Reason I ask is that a while ago I bought a bunch of minerals from a fellow whose wife apparently told him he had to chose which he wanted to keep: his rock collection or his wife. I got the rocks, so one hopes the marriage is still intact. Bill and I have a rotation plan for some of our geologic booty: When we have overnight guests the rocks in the guest room go into my art studio. When I have projects I have to do in my art studio, the rocks in there go into the shop. When we have work to be done in the shop, the rocks go into the living room. When we have people over for dinner, the rocks on the dining table and other tables in the livingroom go into the laundry room. When we have to do laundry, those rocks go into the bedroom....etc. We just had house guests who had to occupy much of the house, so all the rocks went into the garage. Hmmmm. The bad news is that the cars have been outside in the rain for a while, but the good news is that we've been getting good exercise carrying trays and boxes of rocks around! Aloha, Kitty At 05:35 PM 12/2/2004, you wrote: >Aha . . . well, I pretty much cannot. In addition to minerals, there are >papers, chemicals, hydrated microenvironments for my chalcophyllite, >vitamins, ping-pong-ball closest-packed crystal models, CDs, and tea. >There is enough room in front of the microwave to open the door. I >haven't seen the stove top in months. > >Don > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.4 - Release Date: 11/30/2004 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.4 - Release Date: 11/30/2004 From johnjold at comcast.net Thu Dec 2 21:09:20 2004 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Thu Dec 2 21:09:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 50 ton erratic In-Reply-To: <41AFEFB3.7000808@rcn.com> References: <6A70C2B8-44CD-11D9-9478-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> <41AFEFB3.7000808@rcn.com> Message-ID: <7D2D88D8-44E9-11D9-A65F-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> The article was on page B6 of the Dec 2 Grand Rapids Press I tried and failed finding a link to the great picture of Virgil standing next to the boulder chained to the flatbed. This link will take you to the Saginaw News original article from yesterday http://www.mlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news-13/ 110191442541770.xml?sanews?NECN On Dec 2, 2004, at 11:46 PM, Fred Olmstead wrote: > Hello..... > This sounds interesting.... > What is the name of the newspaper? > I would like more information. > Thank you > > GeorgiaO > ___...---...___ > > John Joldersma wrote: > >> The Grand Rapids Michigan paper, tonight, reported the efforts of >> Virgil Liebrock and his excavator friend who last weekend unearthed >> a 50 ton glacial erratic in Gratiot County. "I just wanted to see >> how big >> it was, said Liebrock who collects rocks of all sizes to display in >> his yard. >> At 15 feet long, 10 feet wide and 71/2 feet high it is one of the >> largest >> geological specimens found in the area. The region was covered by >> 15,000 feet of ice in 4 to 6 distinct Ice Ages. That ice ripped the >> chunk >> out of the earth and slowly carried it hundreds of miles from Canada. >> The boulder was weighed by driving the heavy equipment trailer onto >> a grain elevator scale. It currently is sitting on the trailer in >> front of >> Greta's Kitchen in Merrill, Michigan. Virgil has turned down offers >> because he wants to see how it looks in front of his house. >> This is the first rockhounding effort I would call "monumental". >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Dec 2 21:13:33 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Dec 2 21:13:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 50 ton erratic References: <6A70C2B8-44CD-11D9-9478-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> <41AFEFB3.7000808@rcn.com> Message-ID: <41AFF5F1.B72@Tomaszewski.net> The Grand Rapids Press http://gr-press.com Fred Olmstead wrote: > > Hello..... > This sounds interesting.... > What is the name of the newspaper? > I would like more information. > Thank you > > GeorgiaO > ___...---...___ > > John Joldersma wrote: > > > The Grand Rapids Michigan paper, tonight, reported the efforts of > > Virgil Liebrock and his excavator friend who last weekend unearthed > > a 50 ton glacial erratic in Gratiot County. "I just wanted to see how > > big > > it was, said Liebrock who collects rocks of all sizes to display in > > his yard. > > At 15 feet long, 10 feet wide and 71/2 feet high it is one of the largest > > geological specimens found in the area. The region was covered by > > 15,000 feet of ice in 4 to 6 distinct Ice Ages. That ice ripped the > > chunk > > out of the earth and slowly carried it hundreds of miles from Canada. > > The boulder was weighed by driving the heavy equipment trailer onto > > a grain elevator scale. It currently is sitting on the trailer in > > front of > > Greta's Kitchen in Merrill, Michigan. Virgil has turned down offers > > because he wants to see how it looks in front of his house. > > This is the first rockhounding effort I would call "monumental". From lanny at lrream.com Thu Dec 2 22:11:16 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Thu Dec 2 22:10:54 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A real rockhound In-Reply-To: <6A70C2B8-44CD-11D9-9478-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> References: <6A70C2B8-44CD-11D9-9478-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> Message-ID: <240EE7F4-44F2-11D9-8713-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> That's bigger than I care to move, or have in my front yard. My first reaction though was that at that size it should be closer to 100 tons. After all these years I'm wondering if I still think straight about the weight of a chunk of rock. In mining, the simple approach is to figure 10-12 cubic feet per ton. At that rate, a 15 x 10 x 7.5 foot rock would be 1125 cubic feet divided by 12 = 94 tons. Working the hard way, 1125 cubic feet times the weight of water at 62.5 pounds/cubic foot = 70,312.5 pounds x 2.5 (the "average" specific gravity of rock) gives a total weight of 175,781 pounds, or 88 tons. Wonder if they guessed the dimensions, if it really is a geode or if I no longer remember how to figure the weight of rock. Regards, Lanny On Dec 2, 2004, at 5:48 PM, John Joldersma wrote: > The Grand Rapids Michigan paper, tonight, reported the efforts of > Virgil Liebrock and his excavator friend who last weekend unearthed > a 50 ton glacial erratic in Gratiot County. "I just wanted to see how > big > it was, said Liebrock who collects rocks of all sizes to display in > his yard. > At 15 feet long, 10 feet wide and 71/2 feet high it is one of the > largest > geological specimens found in the area. The region was covered by > 15,000 feet of ice in 4 to 6 distinct Ice Ages. That ice ripped the > chunk > out of the earth and slowly carried it hundreds of miles from Canada. > The boulder was weighed by driving the heavy equipment trailer onto > a grain elevator scale. It currently is sitting on the trailer in > front of > Greta's Kitchen in Merrill, Michigan. Virgil has turned down offers > because he wants to see how it looks in front of his house. > This is the first rockhounding effort I would call "monumental". > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From afox at drizzle.com Thu Dec 2 23:50:13 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Thu Dec 2 23:50:15 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 50 ton erratic In-Reply-To: <200412030440.iB34etkT020241@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: I remember a few years back that one of these was encountered in Seattle. It was in the excavation for a parking garage for yet another Belltown yuppie high-rise (wasn't our job). The excavation walls were supported by soldier piles with tiebacks, and the contractor was about 5 floors down (I think). The excavator came down on a rock with a loud 'Tink'. No worries, the operator thought. He moved over five feet to dig around it. 'Tink'!. Moved 10 feet to the other side. 'Tink'!. The boulder (most likely an ice-rafted dropstone) ended up being approximately 20' x 35' (I think), and no idea how heavy. There was no way to get it out easily of a hole that deep. Since the excavation was in downtown Seattle, blasting was not the best option. I believe the contractor used a chemical wedge (mixing a granular powder with an aqueous solution to hydrate and expand the mixture) in holes drilled into the erratic to break it into smaller pieces. I've oft thought about finding some of that chemical wedging material for my own personal use... Oh, and BTW, turnaround time will be a bit long on list requests; I'm in Stockholm now for two months, and I'm not checking email nearly as frequently. Sorry for the inconvenience. a. -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From TomE61 at aol.com Fri Dec 3 00:18:48 2004 From: TomE61 at aol.com (TomE61@aol.com) Date: Fri Dec 3 00:18:52 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] European Rock and Mineral Collecting -- I Could Use Some Guidance Message-ID: <196.336a07ff.2ee17b68@aol.com> I am planning at least one, possibly two, trips to Europe during early 2005 and I could use some help in identifying rock and mineral collecting opportunities. I wish I were, but no, I am not an international jet-setter; I have an award certificate from American Airlines that expires in April as well as a lot of frequent flier miles that I want to use. As of right now, I am thinking about Germany (Frankfurt) and Corsica, since those are two places I've not yet been to, but I've made no reservations and nothing is cast in stone (no pun intended). A lot will ultimately depend on flight and hotel availability. I've been doing a lot of web-based research, and although its enjoyable, it is very time-consuming. So any information that the community can share would be most welcome. It could be as general as the geology of Europe, or specific to any particular country or geographic area. Websites and publications will help a lot, but I know I would benefit from and enjoy reading about personal experiences as well. And, although I can get by with a few European languages, it would probably be best if the information had an English language option. Thank you in advance for any help and suggestions and I wish all of you a very happy, safe and rewarding holiday season. Regards, Tom Russell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Docia1154 at aol.com Fri Dec 3 03:10:18 2004 From: Docia1154 at aol.com (Docia1154@aol.com) Date: Fri Dec 3 03:10:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lack of counterspace Message-ID: In a message dated 12/2/2004 10:54:16 PM Central Standard Time, kahako@aloha.net writes: Bill and I have a rotation plan for some of our geologic booty: When we have overnight guests the rocks in the guest room go into my art studio. When I have projects I have to do in my art studio, the rocks in there go into the shop. When we have work to be done in the shop, the rocks go into the living room. When we have people over for dinner, the rocks on the dining table and other tables in the livingroom go into the laundry room. When we have to do laundry, those rocks go into the bedroom....etc. We just had house guests who had to occupy much of the house, so all the rocks went into the garage. Hmmmm. The bad news is that the cars have been outside in the rain for a while, but the good news is that we've been getting good exercise carrying trays and boxes of rocks around! Can't everyone see this as one of those scenes from an old cartoon, the one with all the different door ways where the characters go in one door and come out a completely different door, back and forth, in and out. or like the old scenes where Elmer Fudd would be chasing Bugs Bunny and they would go behind one tree and they reappear at another. Now add the music of Rocky Top and speed up the action. well anyway, my imagination can sure put this into action. Docia --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Anthony.Schlinsog at GEHA.com Fri Dec 3 05:57:45 2004 From: Anthony.Schlinsog at GEHA.com (Schlinsog, Anthony) Date: Fri Dec 3 05:56:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 50 ton erratic Message-ID: Aaron, Look no further.... What you are talking about sounds like Dexpan - a non-explosive demolition agent manufactured by the Archer Company. There website with info on the agent is: http://archerusa.com/Product_Dexpan.html Anthony Schlinsog -----Original Message----- From: Aaron Fox [mailto:afox@drizzle.com] Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 1:50 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] 50 ton erratic I remember a few years back that one of these was encountered in Seattle. It was in the excavation for a parking garage for yet another Belltown yuppie high-rise (wasn't our job). The excavation walls were supported by soldier piles with tiebacks, and the contractor was about 5 floors down (I think). The excavator came down on a rock with a loud 'Tink'. No worries, the operator thought. He moved over five feet to dig around it. 'Tink'!. Moved 10 feet to the other side. 'Tink'!. The boulder (most likely an ice-rafted dropstone) ended up being approximately 20' x 35' (I think), and no idea how heavy. There was no way to get it out easily of a hole that deep. Since the excavation was in downtown Seattle, blasting was not the best option. I believe the contractor used a chemical wedge (mixing a granular powder with an aqueous solution to hydrate and expand the mixture) in holes drilled into the erratic to break it into smaller pieces. I've oft thought about finding some of that chemical wedging material for my own personal use... Oh, and BTW, turnaround time will be a bit long on list requests; I'm in Stockholm now for two months, and I'm not checking email nearly as frequently. Sorry for the inconvenience. a. -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in this email belongs to the sender which is confidential and may be legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please immediately delete and destroy all copies of the original email and its attachments, and notify the sender. From DOMMELEN at DAL.CA Fri Dec 3 06:28:09 2004 From: DOMMELEN at DAL.CA (Ronnie Van Dommelen) Date: Fri Dec 3 06:28:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 50 ton erratic In-Reply-To: <200412030440.iB34etkT020241@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200412030440.iB34etkT020241@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <1102084089.41b077f9866ef@my2.dal.ca> Hi All, I live in Nova Scotia and we have huge numbers of enormous chunks of granite. I wouldn't want to even guess the weight of the largest ones. One of note however is not nearly the largest but one of the best known - because it could be rocked back and forth using a 2x4 lever or a length of tree (it sits on a bare patch of a granite hilltop). One of the links below states that it stopped rocking in 1963. I first saw it about 1980, and remember it rocking then - but I was young and memory can play tricks. This one has an estimated weight that varies from report to report. I have seen 60 tons, 162 tons, and 200 tons. Whatever the weight, it is heavy and very cool. The area is now somewhat built up - and is known as Rockingstone! See (pic): http://www.gov.ns.ca/nsarm/virtual/halifax/exhibit.asp?ID=105 for an old-time pic. See (text only): http://www.rootsweb.com/~nsmshs/calendarindex.html and go to the first October listing (Oct 1992). Here the weight is said to be 200 tons, but I would think 60 is more accurate. See (text only): http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:BOZDunJs0CkJ:www.gov.ns.ca/natr/MEB/is/is01.htm+kidston+lake+spryfield+granite+boulder&hl=en and go to Halifax County. Later, Ronnie Van Dommelen From afox at drizzle.com Fri Dec 3 06:50:58 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Fri Dec 3 06:51:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 50 ton erratic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Outstanding! That sounds exactly like it.... It looks pretty safe, too (MSDS): http://archerusa.com/Pictures/Products/Dexpan/MSDS.pdf Not sure what the cost is, tho. I'll email the company and find out. For some reason, I no longer thing I'll need that slide hammer anymore (just kidding).... a. > Aaron, > > Look no further.... What you are talking about sounds like Dexpan - a > non-explosive demolition agent manufactured by the Archer Company. > There website with info on the agent is: > > http://archerusa.com/Product_Dexpan.html > > Anthony Schlinsog > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Aaron Fox [mailto:afox@drizzle.com] > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 1:50 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] 50 ton erratic > > > I remember a few years back that one of these was encountered in Seattle. > It was in the excavation for a parking garage for yet another Belltown > yuppie high-rise (wasn't our job). The excavation walls were supported by > soldier piles with tiebacks, and the contractor was about 5 floors down (I > think). > > The excavator came down on a rock with a loud 'Tink'. No worries, the > operator thought. He moved over five feet to dig around it. 'Tink'!. Moved > 10 feet to the other side. 'Tink'!. The boulder (most likely an > ice-rafted dropstone) ended up being approximately 20' x 35' (I think), > and no idea how heavy. There was no way to get it out easily of a hole > that deep. > > Since the excavation was in downtown Seattle, blasting was not the best > option. I believe the contractor used a chemical wedge (mixing a granular > powder with an aqueous solution to hydrate and expand the mixture) in > holes drilled into the erratic to break it into smaller pieces. I've oft > thought about finding some of that chemical wedging material for my own > personal use... > > Oh, and BTW, turnaround time will be a bit long on list requests; I'm in > Stockholm now for two months, and I'm not checking email nearly as > frequently. Sorry for the inconvenience. > > a. > > -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Dec 3 07:21:11 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Dec 3 07:21:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} In-Reply-To: <00fd01c4d8d4$96422480$6a5fe842@pavilion> Message-ID: My wife is too, Wayne... It seems I have this funny way of saying and doing things. > I once was hacking away at an innocent Austrian boulder in an Austrian > meadow, when I noticed that a rather big (at LEAST 5 mm!) spider was > crawling up on my leg. I forgot to mention that it was an AUSTRIAN spider! Sorry folks, my mistake... Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Linda Rasmussen Verzonden: vrijdag 3 december 2004 2:08 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} Axel, I'm still laughing. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: Axel Emmermann To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 3:16 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealistic faintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} > Nothing wrong with fainthearted Hildagarde... > I'm perectly capable of staring down anything ranging from a mouse to a > Flemish Giant (a giant rabbit hat can weigh up to 12 pounds)... still, > anything alive (regardless of size) that has more than 4 legs and 2 eyes > triggers a Pavlovian fleeing reflex in my brain. > > I once was hacking away at an innocent Austrian boulder in an Austrian > meadow, when I noticed that a rather big (at LEAST 5 mm!) spider was > crawling up on my leg. The boulder had some strongly fluorescent calcite > layers in it, so I wanted it bad. > I broke two world records that day: the world record pole vaulting was > crushed. I did it without the running and without the pole but still... an > 18 ft jump from a crouching position isn't bad. After that, I ran 100 yards > without even touching the grass in just under two milliseconds. It took my > wife's breath away... the laughter, I mean. > > Cheers > > axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens P.C. Hulley > Verzonden: donderdag 2 december 2004 11:02 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealistic fainthearted > pebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} > > > Take out the "faint hearted" and yes, that would include me as well! > > Hildagarde Hulley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 2:05 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealistic fainthearted pebble-picking > amateur{was: British Columbia} > > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > > > Hello list > > > > > > a friend of mine is going on vacation in British Columbia this summer. > > > He's a seasoned professional mineralogist with lots of experience...not > > > just another unrealistic fainthearted pebble-picking amateur > > > > Axel, > > > > I think you demean this list. Most of us have moved our unrealistic > > dreams well beyond fainthearted pebbles to large boulders (or even to > > hard rock). We may have once been pebble pups, but now we are incurable > > Rockhounds. > > > > Kreigh > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rpr at nike.heidelberg.edu Fri Dec 3 07:21:33 2004 From: rpr at nike.heidelberg.edu (Pete Richards) Date: Fri Dec 3 07:21:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pyrite oxydation In-Reply-To: <1102084089.41b077f9866ef@my2.dal.ca> References: <200412030440.iB34etkT020241@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <1102084089.41b077f9866ef@my2.dal.ca> Message-ID: For those of you interested in why pyrite falls apart after time, there's an interesting article in a recent Environmental Science and Technology (38: 5604-5606) reporting some clever research on pyrite immersed in water that clearly established that the oxygen that converted the sulfur into sulfate came from the water and not from the oxygen dissolved in the water, but that the oxygen that converted the liberated iron into iron oxyhydroxide (essentially limonite in the making...) came from the oxygen dissolved in the water. (Now that was a sentence to be proud of!) The lesson here seems to me to be the importance of keeping pyrite (and marcasite) specimens DRY. This may be more important than trying to keep them away from oxygen in the atmosphere. But it raises again the interesting question of why pyrite sitting in a clay bed which is saturated with water does not oxidize.... Regards, Pete -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Dec 3 08:07:11 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Dec 3 08:07:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} In-Reply-To: <002d01c4d8df$465e2c60$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: Once bitten, twice shy... I've been bitten twice by a spider. Both very painful, colorful and swollen body parts... In both cases it was just an ordinary black spider with hairy legs and a body of about 1.5 cm like you often find in cellars or cracks in the wall around here. Normally they cannot pierce the human skin but if you help them while slapping them on the head while they are already trying to bite you..... (one was in my bed, I leaned on it with my fist and it bit me between two fingers. The other one crawled up my leg inside my trousers and I accidentally squashed it against the inside of my thigh). Anyway, it hurts. Not at once but after an hour or so...when the swelling begins. Is a banana spider one of those icky crawly tennis ball-sized monsters... Like those you put your foot on and then say "take me to the supermarket"? Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jeanette Wimpee Verzonden: vrijdag 3 december 2004 3:25 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} ROTFL! Wonder what it is about itty bitty spiders that can send such big guys off like a rocket? My son-in-law has the same reaction. It NEVER bothers me to SEE a spider, especially when I've invaded HER domain and she runs out to protest the intrusion. It's the ones I don't see, like when I back into the big web of our resident banana spiders in the yard, and then can't find the resident spider. A superfast check of hair and clothes ensues.....sometimes a little hopping around and slapping of the neck....a little dance of the heebie jeebies.....who says I'm scared of spiders?? Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 4:16 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealistic faintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} > Nothing wrong with fainthearted Hildagarde... > I'm perectly capable of staring down anything ranging from a mouse to a > Flemish Giant (a giant rabbit hat can weigh up to 12 pounds)... still, > anything alive (regardless of size) that has more than 4 legs and 2 eyes > triggers a Pavlovian fleeing reflex in my brain. > > I once was hacking away at an innocent Austrian boulder in an Austrian > meadow, when I noticed that a rather big (at LEAST 5 mm!) spider was > crawling up on my leg. The boulder had some strongly fluorescent calcite > layers in it, so I wanted it bad. > I broke two world records that day: the world record pole vaulting was > crushed. I did it without the running and without the pole but still... an > 18 ft jump from a crouching position isn't bad. After that, I ran 100 yards > without even touching the grass in just under two milliseconds. It took my > wife's breath away... the laughter, I mean. > > Cheers > > axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens P.C. Hulley > Verzonden: donderdag 2 december 2004 11:02 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealistic fainthearted > pebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} > > > Take out the "faint hearted" and yes, that would include me as well! > > Hildagarde Hulley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 2:05 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealistic fainthearted pebble-picking > amateur{was: British Columbia} > > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > > > Hello list > > > > > > a friend of mine is going on vacation in British Columbia this summer. > > > He's a seasoned professional mineralogist with lots of experience...not > > > just another unrealistic fainthearted pebble-picking amateur > > > > Axel, > > > > I think you demean this list. Most of us have moved our unrealistic > > dreams well beyond fainthearted pebbles to large boulders (or even to > > hard rock). We may have once been pebble pups, but now we are incurable > > Rockhounds. > > > > Kreigh > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From bg at his.com Fri Dec 3 08:29:55 2004 From: bg at his.com (Catherine Gaber) Date: Fri Dec 3 08:29:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <90BE3FDB-4548-11D9-AAFA-000A95A8FEB6@his.com> i've been bitten by spiders many, many times. usually it is just a minor inconvenience, but one bite led to blood poisoning, so be careful. cathy On Dec 3, 2004, at 11:07 AM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Once bitten, twice shy... > I've been bitten twice by a spider. Both very painful, colorful and > swollen > body parts... > In both cases it was just an ordinary black spider with hairy legs and > a > body of about 1.5 cm like you often find in cellars or cracks in the > wall > around here. > Normally they cannot pierce the human skin but if you help them while > slapping them on the head while they are already trying to bite > you..... > (one was in my bed, I leaned on it with my fist and it bit me between > two > fingers. The other one crawled up my leg inside my trousers and I > accidentally squashed it against the inside of my thigh). > Anyway, it hurts. Not at once but after an hour or so...when the > swelling > begins. > > Is a banana spider one of those icky crawly tennis ball-sized > monsters... > Like those you put your foot on and then say "take me to the > supermarket"? > > Cheers > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jeanette Wimpee > Verzonden: vrijdag 3 december 2004 3:25 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: > unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} > > > ROTFL! > Wonder what it is about itty bitty spiders that can send such big guys > off > like a rocket? My son-in-law has the same reaction. It NEVER bothers > me to > SEE a spider, especially when I've invaded HER domain and she runs out > to > protest the intrusion. It's the ones I don't see, like when I back > into the > big web of our resident banana spiders in the yard, and then can't > find the > resident spider. A superfast check of hair and clothes > ensues.....sometimes > a little hopping around and slapping of the neck....a little dance of > the > heebie jeebies.....who says I'm scared of spiders?? > Jeanette > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Axel Emmermann" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 4:16 AM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealistic > faintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} > > >> Nothing wrong with fainthearted Hildagarde... >> I'm perectly capable of staring down anything ranging from a mouse to >> a >> Flemish Giant (a giant rabbit hat can weigh up to 12 pounds)... still, >> anything alive (regardless of size) that has more than 4 legs and 2 >> eyes >> triggers a Pavlovian fleeing reflex in my brain. >> >> I once was hacking away at an innocent Austrian boulder in an Austrian >> meadow, when I noticed that a rather big (at LEAST 5 mm!) spider was >> crawling up on my leg. The boulder had some strongly fluorescent >> calcite >> layers in it, so I wanted it bad. >> I broke two world records that day: the world record pole vaulting was >> crushed. I did it without the running and without the pole but >> still... an >> 18 ft jump from a crouching position isn't bad. After that, I ran 100 > yards >> without even touching the grass in just under two milliseconds. It >> took my >> wife's breath away... the laughter, I mean. >> >> Cheers >> >> axel >> >> >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >> Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens P.C. Hulley >> Verzonden: donderdag 2 december 2004 11:02 >> Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors >> Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealistic fainthearted >> pebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} >> >> >> Take out the "faint hearted" and yes, that would include me as well! >> >> Hildagarde Hulley >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Kreigh Tomaszewski >> To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 2:05 AM >> Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealistic fainthearted pebble-picking >> amateur{was: British Columbia} >> >> >>> Axel Emmermann wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello list >>>> >>>> a friend of mine is going on vacation in British Columbia this >>>> summer. >>>> He's a seasoned professional mineralogist with lots of > experience...not >>>> just another unrealistic fainthearted pebble-picking amateur >>> >>> Axel, >>> >>> I think you demean this list. Most of us have moved our unrealistic >>> dreams well beyond fainthearted pebbles to large boulders (or even to >>> hard rock). We may have once been pebble pups, but now we are >>> incurable >>> Rockhounds. >>> >>> Kreigh >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Dec 3 08:30:18 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Dec 3 08:30:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] European Rock and Mineral Collecting -- I Could Use SomeGuidance In-Reply-To: <196.336a07ff.2ee17b68@aol.com> Message-ID: If you're into micromounting: the German Eifel (Volcanic Eifel) is a must. Small stuff, easy to carry home ;-))) There's still a report (in Dutch, alas) about the 2002 European FMS-meeting on our MKA-page. Scroll down and you'll see us at the Mendig quarry and an example of a fluorescing nosean/andesite specimen from that quarry. A lot of localities can be found on MINDAT.org ... Just search for Germany or Corsica and you'll be busy for weeks. Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens TomE61@aol.com Verzonden: vrijdag 3 december 2004 9:19 Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] European Rock and Mineral Collecting -- I Could Use SomeGuidance I am planning at least one, possibly two, trips to Europe during early 2005 and I could use some help in identifying rock and mineral collecting opportunities. I wish I were, but no, I am not an international jet-setter; I have an award certificate from American Airlines that expires in April as well as a lot of frequent flier miles that I want to use. As of right now, I am thinking about Germany (Frankfurt) and Corsica, since those are two places I've not yet been to, but I've made no reservations and nothing is cast in stone (no pun intended). A lot will ultimately depend on flight and hotel availability. I've been doing a lot of web-based research, and although its enjoyable, it is very time-consuming. So any information that the community can share would be most welcome. It could be as general as the geology of Europe, or specific to any particular country or geographic area. Websites and publications will help a lot, but I know I would benefit from and enjoy reading about personal experiences as well. And, although I can get by with a few European languages, it would probably be best if the information had an English language option. Thank you in advance for any help and suggestions and I wish all of you a very happy, safe and rewarding holiday season. Regards, Tom Russell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Fri Dec 3 08:30:43 2004 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Fri Dec 3 08:30:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41B094B3.6030209@xs4all.nl> >Is a banana spider one of those icky crawly tennis ball-sized monsters... > Like those you put your foot on and then say "take me to the supermarket"? LOL I know Belgium has many problems with illegal hormones administered to their livestock, but this is new to me. :-)) Taking the size of our Axel in account I think the poor creatures are better off walking to the vet. But with all fears you have to confront yourself. Last summer while working in the garden I took some time to observe some (for our standards) big spiders. They are quite interesting. After a few times I stopped shivering and got a really good view of them. After a few more times I did not mind when they walked over my hands. I was surpised how fast this confrontation method works. It is not that I pick them up or so, but at least I'm not scared of them anymore. My ultimate goal is to look at one under the microscope. That is the final exam. Either I will be scared of them like never before or I will start collecting them :-))) cheers, Maurice >Cheers > >Axel > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jeanette Wimpee >Verzonden: vrijdag 3 december 2004 3:25 >Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: >unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} > > >ROTFL! >Wonder what it is about itty bitty spiders that can send such big guys off >like a rocket? My son-in-law has the same reaction. It NEVER bothers me to >SEE a spider, especially when I've invaded HER domain and she runs out to >protest the intrusion. It's the ones I don't see, like when I back into the >big web of our resident banana spiders in the yard, and then can't find the >resident spider. A superfast check of hair and clothes ensues.....sometimes >a little hopping around and slapping of the neck....a little dance of the >heebie jeebies.....who says I'm scared of spiders?? >Jeanette > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Axel Emmermann" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 4:16 AM >Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealistic >faintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} > > > > >>Nothing wrong with fainthearted Hildagarde... >>I'm perectly capable of staring down anything ranging from a mouse to a >>Flemish Giant (a giant rabbit hat can weigh up to 12 pounds)... still, >>anything alive (regardless of size) that has more than 4 legs and 2 eyes >>triggers a Pavlovian fleeing reflex in my brain. >> >>I once was hacking away at an innocent Austrian boulder in an Austrian >>meadow, when I noticed that a rather big (at LEAST 5 mm!) spider was >>crawling up on my leg. The boulder had some strongly fluorescent calcite >>layers in it, so I wanted it bad. >>I broke two world records that day: the world record pole vaulting was >>crushed. I did it without the running and without the pole but still... an >>18 ft jump from a crouching position isn't bad. After that, I ran 100 >> >> >yards > > >>without even touching the grass in just under two milliseconds. It took my >>wife's breath away... the laughter, I mean. >> >>Cheers >> >>axel >> >> >>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >>Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >>[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens P.C. Hulley >>Verzonden: donderdag 2 december 2004 11:02 >>Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >>Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealistic fainthearted >>pebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} >> >> >>Take out the "faint hearted" and yes, that would include me as well! >> >>Hildagarde Hulley >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: Kreigh Tomaszewski >>To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >> >>Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 2:05 AM >>Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealistic fainthearted pebble-picking >>amateur{was: British Columbia} >> >> >> >> >>>Axel Emmermann wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Hello list >>>> >>>>a friend of mine is going on vacation in British Columbia this summer. >>>>He's a seasoned professional mineralogist with lots of >>>> >>>> >experience...not > > >>>>just another unrealistic fainthearted pebble-picking amateur >>>> >>>> >>>Axel, >>> >>>I think you demean this list. Most of us have moved our unrealistic >>>dreams well beyond fainthearted pebbles to large boulders (or even to >>>hard rock). We may have once been pebble pups, but now we are incurable >>>Rockhounds. >>> >>>Kreigh >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>>Subscription Services: >>>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 3 08:31:19 2004 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Fri Dec 3 08:31:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pyrite oxydation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041203163119.98495.qmail@web51001.mail.yahoo.com> > > But it raises again the interesting question of why > pyrite sitting in a clay bed which is saturated > with water does not oxidize.... > Actually, it does oxidize (or at least decompose), just a lot more slowly than in air. I collected some marcasite nodules from a clay bed in Glen Cove, NY in about 1950. The nodules that were left out in the atmosphere decomposed in a matter of months, while nodules that I kept in a jar under water lasted over 20 years. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales www.sauktown.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 3 08:38:49 2004 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Fri Dec 3 08:38:52 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Micromount symposium in Florida Message-ID: <20041203163849.78172.qmail@web51009.mail.yahoo.com> Could someone please send me the info on the micromount symposium in Florida in February? I had the original post saved on my hard drive, but lost it when I changed hard drives. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales www.sauktown.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 From hbarwood at troyst.edu Fri Dec 3 08:54:33 2004 From: hbarwood at troyst.edu (Henry Barwood) Date: Fri Dec 3 08:53:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Micromount symposium in Florida In-Reply-To: <20041203163849.78172.qmail@web51009.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Jim, The details are at: http://home.earthlink.net/~earlrock/wintermicro/index.html Hope to see you there. Henry -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Jim Daly Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 10:39 AM To: Rockhounds; Micromounts Subject: [Rockhounds] Micromount symposium in Florida Could someone please send me the info on the micromount symposium in Florida in February? I had the original post saved on my hard drive, but lost it when I changed hard drives. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales www.sauktown.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From geenet2 at mchsi.com Fri Dec 3 09:15:46 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Fri Dec 3 09:26:52 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lack of counterspace References: <6.0.3.0.2.20041202150159.01f18408@mail.adelphia.net><004801c4d8e1$534b46e0$6401a8c0@mchsi.com><41AFD432.7090502@att.net><007701c4d8e5$04611c40$6401a8c0@mchsi.com><41AFDF1D.2070708@att.net> <6.1.2.0.0.20041202190411.0424a7f0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <000f01c4d95b$becd6680$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> I have to confess, we also have rocks in the bathroom, the bedroom, the living room, the dining room, the kitchen and of course the main "rock" room which is the enclosed back porch which is also the kennel room and orchid room. My daughter's room is off limits to rocks...also HER bathroom. I don't think there are any rocks in the laundry room...unless there is an "erratic" pocket rock. It helps to have a co-rockhound in the house. Jeanette AND Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 11:23 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Lack of counterspace > Don, > > Sounds like a bachelor pad. Do you have a wife, roommate, or "significant > other"? Is she/he also a rockhound? Reason I ask is that a while ago I > bought a bunch of minerals from a fellow whose wife apparently told him he > had to chose which he wanted to keep: his rock collection or his wife. I > got the rocks, so one hopes the marriage is still intact. > > Bill and I have a rotation plan for some of our geologic booty: When we > have overnight guests the rocks in the guest room go into my art > studio. When I have projects I have to do in my art studio, the rocks in > there go into the shop. When we have work to be done in the shop, the > rocks go into the living room. When we have people over for dinner, the > rocks on the dining table and other tables in the livingroom go into the > laundry room. When we have to do laundry, those rocks go into the > bedroom....etc. We just had house guests who had to occupy much of the > house, so all the rocks went into the garage. Hmmmm. The bad news is that > the cars have been outside in the rain for a while, but the good news is > that we've been getting good exercise carrying trays and boxes of rocks around! > > Aloha, Kitty > > > At 05:35 PM 12/2/2004, you wrote: > >Aha . . . well, I pretty much cannot. In addition to minerals, there are > >papers, chemicals, hydrated microenvironments for my chalcophyllite, > >vitamins, ping-pong-ball closest-packed crystal models, CDs, and tea. > >There is enough room in front of the microwave to open the door. I > >haven't seen the stove top in months. > > > >Don > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > >-- > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.4 - Release Date: 11/30/2004 > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.4 - Release Date: 11/30/2004 > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From geenet2 at mchsi.com Fri Dec 3 09:15:46 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Fri Dec 3 09:28:42 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lack of counterspace References: <6.0.3.0.2.20041202150159.01f18408@mail.adelphia.net><004801c4d8e1$534b46e0$6401a8c0@mchsi.com><41AFD432.7090502@att.net><007701c4d8e5$04611c40$6401a8c0@mchsi.com><41AFDF1D.2070708@att.net> <6.1.2.0.0.20041202190411.0424a7f0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <003f01c4d95d$51bdddc0$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> I have to confess, we also have rocks in the bathroom, the bedroom, the living room, the dining room, the kitchen and of course the main "rock" room which is the enclosed back porch which is also the kennel room and orchid room. My daughter's room is off limits to rocks...also HER bathroom. I don't think there are any rocks in the laundry room...unless there is an "erratic" pocket rock. It helps to have a co-rockhound in the house. Jeanette AND Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 11:23 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Lack of counterspace > Don, > > Sounds like a bachelor pad. Do you have a wife, roommate, or "significant > other"? Is she/he also a rockhound? Reason I ask is that a while ago I > bought a bunch of minerals from a fellow whose wife apparently told him he > had to chose which he wanted to keep: his rock collection or his wife. I > got the rocks, so one hopes the marriage is still intact. > > Bill and I have a rotation plan for some of our geologic booty: When we > have overnight guests the rocks in the guest room go into my art > studio. When I have projects I have to do in my art studio, the rocks in > there go into the shop. When we have work to be done in the shop, the > rocks go into the living room. When we have people over for dinner, the > rocks on the dining table and other tables in the livingroom go into the > laundry room. When we have to do laundry, those rocks go into the > bedroom....etc. We just had house guests who had to occupy much of the > house, so all the rocks went into the garage. Hmmmm. The bad news is that > the cars have been outside in the rain for a while, but the good news is > that we've been getting good exercise carrying trays and boxes of rocks around! > > Aloha, Kitty > > > At 05:35 PM 12/2/2004, you wrote: > >Aha . . . well, I pretty much cannot. In addition to minerals, there are > >papers, chemicals, hydrated microenvironments for my chalcophyllite, > >vitamins, ping-pong-ball closest-packed crystal models, CDs, and tea. > >There is enough room in front of the microwave to open the door. I > >haven't seen the stove top in months. > > > >Don > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > >-- > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.4 - Release Date: 11/30/2004 > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.4 - Release Date: 11/30/2004 > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From lanny at lrream.com Fri Dec 3 09:34:09 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Fri Dec 3 09:32:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 50 ton erratic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8A439E3A-4551-11D9-8713-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Aaron, There is at least one other too. Bob Jackson has used one and I'm quite sure the name wasn't Dexpan. I recall that the one he used did the job well, was a bit pricey and took overnight to work. Lanny On Dec 3, 2004, at 5:57 AM, Schlinsog, Anthony wrote: > Aaron, > > Look no further.... What you are talking about sounds like Dexpan - a > non-explosive demolition agent manufactured by the Archer Company. > There website with info on the agent is: > > http://archerusa.com/Product_Dexpan.html > > Anthony Schlinsog > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Aaron Fox [mailto:afox@drizzle.com] > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 1:50 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] 50 ton erratic > > > I remember a few years back that one of these was encountered in > Seattle. > It was in the excavation for a parking garage for yet another Belltown > yuppie high-rise (wasn't our job). The excavation walls were > supported by > soldier piles with tiebacks, and the contractor was about 5 floors > down (I > think). > > The excavator came down on a rock with a loud 'Tink'. No worries, the > operator thought. He moved over five feet to dig around it. 'Tink'!. > Moved > 10 feet to the other side. 'Tink'!. The boulder (most likely an > ice-rafted dropstone) ended up being approximately 20' x 35' (I think), > and no idea how heavy. There was no way to get it out easily of a hole > that deep. > > Since the excavation was in downtown Seattle, blasting was not the best > option. I believe the contractor used a chemical wedge (mixing a > granular > powder with an aqueous solution to hydrate and expand the mixture) in > holes drilled into the erratic to break it into smaller pieces. I've > oft > thought about finding some of that chemical wedging material for my own > personal use... > > Oh, and BTW, turnaround time will be a bit long on list requests; I'm > in > Stockholm now for two months, and I'm not checking email nearly as > frequently. Sorry for the inconvenience. > > a. > > -- > afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox > FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your > computer. Press any key to reboot > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in this email > belongs to the sender which is confidential and may be legally > privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the > individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, > distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents > of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this > email in error, please immediately delete and destroy all copies of > the original email and its attachments, and notify the sender. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From geenet2 at mchsi.com Fri Dec 3 09:15:46 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Fri Dec 3 09:42:20 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lack of counterspace References: <6.0.3.0.2.20041202150159.01f18408@mail.adelphia.net><004801c4d8e1$534b46e0$6401a8c0@mchsi.com><41AFD432.7090502@att.net><007701c4d8e5$04611c40$6401a8c0@mchsi.com><41AFDF1D.2070708@att.net> <6.1.2.0.0.20041202190411.0424a7f0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <005801c4d95f$5aa379c0$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> I have to confess, we also have rocks in the bathroom, the bedroom, the living room, the dining room, the kitchen and of course the main "rock" room which is the enclosed back porch which is also the kennel room and orchid room. My daughter's room is off limits to rocks...also HER bathroom. I don't think there are any rocks in the laundry room...unless there is an "erratic" pocket rock. It helps to have a co-rockhound in the house. Jeanette AND Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 11:23 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Lack of counterspace > Don, > > Sounds like a bachelor pad. Do you have a wife, roommate, or "significant > other"? Is she/he also a rockhound? Reason I ask is that a while ago I > bought a bunch of minerals from a fellow whose wife apparently told him he > had to chose which he wanted to keep: his rock collection or his wife. I > got the rocks, so one hopes the marriage is still intact. > > Bill and I have a rotation plan for some of our geologic booty: When we > have overnight guests the rocks in the guest room go into my art > studio. When I have projects I have to do in my art studio, the rocks in > there go into the shop. When we have work to be done in the shop, the > rocks go into the living room. When we have people over for dinner, the > rocks on the dining table and other tables in the livingroom go into the > laundry room. When we have to do laundry, those rocks go into the > bedroom....etc. We just had house guests who had to occupy much of the > house, so all the rocks went into the garage. Hmmmm. The bad news is that > the cars have been outside in the rain for a while, but the good news is > that we've been getting good exercise carrying trays and boxes of rocks around! > > Aloha, Kitty > > > At 05:35 PM 12/2/2004, you wrote: > >Aha . . . well, I pretty much cannot. In addition to minerals, there are > >papers, chemicals, hydrated microenvironments for my chalcophyllite, > >vitamins, ping-pong-ball closest-packed crystal models, CDs, and tea. > >There is enough room in front of the microwave to open the door. I > >haven't seen the stove top in months. > > > >Don > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > >-- > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.4 - Release Date: 11/30/2004 > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.4 - Release Date: 11/30/2004 > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From lanny at lrream.com Fri Dec 3 09:45:12 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Fri Dec 3 09:43:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pyrite oxydation In-Reply-To: <20041203163119.98495.qmail@web51001.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041203163119.98495.qmail@web51001.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <14F37A31-4553-11D9-8713-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Pete was probably referring to the water in the clay while the pyrite is in situ. It's wet for thousands to millions of years, yet is fresh and shiny when we find it. And that does bring up an interesting point. In other environments (old mines, even mine dumps) the pyrite is exposed to surface waters. The mine may have been operated 50, 60 or a 100 years ago, yet we hit the dump with our collecting tools, find a shiny pyrite cluster and take it home, and within 10 years it may be cracking and crumbling. The pyrite in the sediments on the Pacific Ocean beach just south of Otter Rock, Oregon has been exposed for several thousand years (or more). The pyrite comes out of the rock shiny or with a thin "limonite" coating. Take it home and forget it in a damp environment and it will be a black powdery mess in only a couple years. There must be something more to this than just the water born oxygen. Regards, Lanny On Dec 3, 2004, at 8:31 AM, Jim Daly wrote: > >> >> But it raises again the interesting question of why >> pyrite sitting in a clay bed which is saturated >> with water does not oxidize.... >> > Actually, it does oxidize (or at least decompose), > just a lot more slowly than in air. I collected some > marcasite nodules from a clay bed in Glen Cove, NY in > about 1950. The nodules that were left out in the > atmosphere decomposed in a matter of months, while > nodules that I kept in a jar under water lasted over > 20 years. > Jim Daly > Sauktown Sales > www.sauktown.com > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From tam2819 at cox.net Fri Dec 3 09:49:43 2004 From: tam2819 at cox.net (T.A.Masters) Date: Fri Dec 3 09:49:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lack of counterspace References: <6.0.3.0.2.20041202150159.01f18408@mail.adelphia.net> <004801c4d8e1$534b46e0$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> <41AFD432.7090502@att.net> <007701c4d8e5$04611c40$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> <41AFDF1D.2070708@att.net> <6.1.2.0.0.20041202190411.0424a7f0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <41B0A737.9040706@cox.net> Kitty, After that litany, no one with a conscience would dare ask to visit. Hugs Terrie From morningstar at att.net Fri Dec 3 09:55:35 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Fri Dec 3 09:55:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lack of counterspace Message-ID: <120320041755.26788.41B0A896000D375A000068A421603831169D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> > > Sounds like a bachelor pad. Do you have a wife, roommate, or "significant > > other"? Is she/he also a rockhound? Reason I ask is that a while ago I > > bought a bunch of minerals from a fellow whose wife apparently told him he > > had to chose which he wanted to keep: his rock collection or his wife. Oh heck no, are you kidding? I would have never been able to pile up this many specimens with someone else involved. DD From tam2819 at cox.net Fri Dec 3 10:01:00 2004 From: tam2819 at cox.net (T.A.Masters) Date: Fri Dec 3 10:01:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} References: <41B094B3.6030209@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <41B0A9DC.6040106@cox.net> Fossilized spiders to be included in fabricated jewelry and worn with pride? Terrie Thanks all for my morning coffee respite. From kahako at aloha.net Fri Dec 3 10:56:25 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Dec 3 10:26:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lack of counterspace In-Reply-To: <41B0A737.9040706@cox.net> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20041202150159.01f18408@mail.adelphia.net> <004801c4d8e1$534b46e0$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> <41AFD432.7090502@att.net> <007701c4d8e5$04611c40$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> <41AFDF1D.2070708@att.net> <6.1.2.0.0.20041202190411.0424a7f0@mail.aloha.net> <41B0A737.9040706@cox.net> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041203082151.03c2d1c0@mail.aloha.net> Well, Henry Barwood and his wife and daughter have come for lunch, and Kreigh & Monica Tomaszewski stayed with us for a week. Bill and I got lots of exercise...and they never saw the laundry room! Aloha, Kitty At 07:49 AM 12/3/2004, you wrote: >Kitty, >After that litany, no one with a conscience would dare ask to visit. >Hugs >Terrie > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.4 - Release Date: 11/30/2004 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.5 - Release Date: 12/3/2004 From kahako at aloha.net Fri Dec 3 10:59:00 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Dec 3 10:29:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lack of counterspace In-Reply-To: <120320041755.26788.41B0A896000D375A000068A421603831169D0E9 B9C090207029D0103@att.net> References: <120320041755.26788.41B0A896000D375A000068A421603831169D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041203085658.03c39080@mail.aloha.net> > > > Sounds like a bachelor pad. Do you have a wife, roommate, or > "significant > > > other"? Is she/he also a rockhound? > >Oh heck no, are you kidding? I would have never been able to pile up this >many specimens with someone else involved. > >DD Unless the "someone else" is also a rockhound. In which case you develop a joint solution...like Bill's and my rotation system! Aloha, Kitty -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.5 - Release Date: 12/3/2004 From TomE61 at aol.com Fri Dec 3 10:50:09 2004 From: TomE61 at aol.com (TomE61@aol.com) Date: Fri Dec 3 10:50:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounding in Europe; Please resend Posting Message-ID: <92.1b216eff.2ee20f61@aol.com> I hate to trouble everyone with this, but don't see another way around it. A member of the community sent me an e-mail about Rockhounding in Europe, and it wound up in AOL's SPAM folder and was accidentally deleted. Without going into the frustrating details of trying to deal with AOL, I am unable to recover that particular message. To the person that sent it: I appreciate it and ask that you send it to me one more time. Thanks and I apologize if I've inconvenienced anyone. Tom Russell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tangojuli at yahoo.com Fri Dec 3 11:08:23 2004 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Fri Dec 3 11:08:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Northwest AZ pebble localities In-Reply-To: <41B0A9DC.6040106@cox.net> Message-ID: <20041203190823.96717.qmail@web60810.mail.yahoo.com> This unrealistic stonehearted pebble picking amateur wants to know if any of you rockhounds out there has any info on Bouse AZ or other localities in that zone. I'm heading out there at the end of the month and would like to check out some old localities I read about (hematite etc). If there are other collecting sites with 50 miles that might be worth the trip, I'd be grateful for any info. I have a rugged pickup, but not 4WD and will only have 4 days. Thanks! tina (formerly tinaindesert & now tinaintundra) tangojuli@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From johnjold at comcast.net Fri Dec 3 11:10:06 2004 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Fri Dec 3 11:10:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 50 ton erratic Message-ID: I tried to send this link to the original newspaper article in the Saginaw News last night but it seems to have been lost. Let's retry today. http://www.mlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news-13/ 110191442541770.xml?sanews?NECN From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Fri Dec 3 11:12:18 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Fri Dec 3 11:12:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lack of counterspace In-Reply-To: <005801c4d95f$5aa379c0$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <200412031912.iB3JCQ5b023723@bubbleator.drizzle.com> My sweetie and I have five years to figure out how to consolidate our collections... That's when my youngest son and her youngest son will finally be "out of the nest(s)" and away to college. GcB From rik.dillen at skynet.be Fri Dec 3 10:29:05 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Fri Dec 3 13:34:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pyrite oxydation In-Reply-To: <14F37A31-4553-11D9-8713-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <000001c4d965$f8d1cd80$aac1f051@maxdata> *The pyrite in the sediments on the Pacific Ocean beach just south of Otter Rock, Oregon has been exposed for several thousand years (or more). The pyrite comes out of the rock shiny or with a thin "limonite" coating. Take it home and forget it in a damp environment and it will be a black powdery mess in only a couple years. There must be something more to this than just the water born oxygen. * >>>>> Reducing environment by bacteria ? Just an idea... Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Fri Dec 3 12:55:53 2004 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Fri Dec 3 14:56:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pyrite oxydation References: <000001c4d965$f8d1cd80$aac1f051@maxdata> Message-ID: <001501c4d97a$81f6f720$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Note that the Otter Rock, Oregon pyrites are rough casts of fossilized gastropods and pelecypods in sandstone of the Miocene age (5-26 million year old) Astoria Formation. I don't know how this affects deterioration. Perhaps the calcium? Then there's Boulder Creek in Linn County, OR that has beautiful little pyrite crystals in wet clay. John Siebel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rik Dillen" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 12:29 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Pyrite oxydation > *The pyrite in the sediments on the Pacific Ocean beach just south of Otter Rock, Oregon has been exposed for several thousand years > (or > more). The pyrite comes out of the rock shiny or with a thin "limonite" coating. Take it home and forget it in a damp environment > and it will > be a black powdery mess in only a couple years. There must be something more to this than just the water born oxygen. > * > >>>>> Reducing environment by bacteria ? > Just an idea... > Greetings, > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > Belgium > > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > >>> Belgian minerals > >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! > >>> Exchange list > > MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Fri Dec 3 15:35:58 2004 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Dec 3 15:41:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pyrite oxydation References: <200412030440.iB34etkT020241@bubbleator.drizzle.com><1102084089.41b077f9866ef@my2.dal.ca> Message-ID: <003501c4d991$464db6c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Earlier this year I went with a group to a dense gray clay area on a riverbank in Alabama that was recently eroded by heavy rains and loaded with pyrite or marcasite (depending on which expert is asked). Many of the specimens were in various stages of decomposure. There were lots of specimens, most of which had a distinct deep purple hue on their surfaces. These were more silvery (when cleaned with muriatic acid) than most I've seen from out west. I was told to spray them with lacquer to preserve their luster. We have both oxygen and water in the air here, average humidity above 80%. But obviously in the wet riverbank location, formation and decompsure is continuing at that lightning fast geologic pace. Also the "crystals" were only a few millimeters, but were in nearly spherical formations of all sizes up to 3 of 4 centimeters. Many of the "spheres" were grouped with several others to form specimens up to at least 10-12 cm, or nearly 5 inches. The seriously decomposed ones were easily broken and the inside looked like rust colored starbursts. FeO2 no doubt! But still very interesting to this novice. I kept several for my personal collection and gave the rest to our club for the kids dig we had at the Mobile Show last weekend. Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Richards" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 9:21 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Pyrite oxydation > For those of you interested in why pyrite falls apart after time, there's an interesting article in a recent Environmental Science and Technology (38: 5604-5606) reporting some clever research on pyrite immersed in water that clearly established that the oxygen that converted the sulfur into sulfate came from the water and not from the oxygen dissolved in the water, but that the oxygen that converted the liberated iron into iron oxyhydroxide (essentially limonite in the making...) came from the oxygen dissolved in the water. (Now that was a sentence to be proud of!) > > The lesson here seems to me to be the importance of keeping pyrite (and marcasite) specimens DRY. This may be more important than trying to keep them away from oxygen in the atmosphere. > > But it raises again the interesting question of why pyrite sitting in a clay bed which is saturated with water does not oxidize.... > > Regards, > Pete > -- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > R. Peter Richards > rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu > > Mineral collector > Crystallographer > SHAPE for the Macintosh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Fri Dec 3 16:07:25 2004 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Dec 3 16:09:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} References: Message-ID: <004b01c4d995$3cec7360$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> The "banana spider" is also known as the "bird spider" for the obvious reason that some believe it can catch small birds in its large web. They are also amongst the "golden orb spiders" for their beautiful webs. It can be the diameter of a grown woman's hand and is a variety of nephila. Its up to 3 inch long body is often colored like a slightly over ripe banana. We have another variety that is striped with a yellow, black, and white pattern. Really pretty. These don't crawl around, so when you find yourself entangled it is always around the head, face, and EYES! YIKES!!! Jeanette is trying to post a couple of pics. BTW, I got 15,400 hits when I typed nephila on Google. Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re:unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} > Once bitten, twice shy... . > > Is a banana spider one of those icky crawly tennis ball-sized monsters... > Like those you put your foot on and then say "take me to the supermarket"? > > Cheers > > Axel > > From cjkuo at verizon.net Fri Dec 3 16:16:06 2004 From: cjkuo at verizon.net (Jimmy Kuo) Date: Fri Dec 3 16:17:49 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pyrite oxydation References: <200412030440.iB34etkT020241@bubbleator.drizzle.com><1102084089.41b077f9866ef@my2.dal.ca> <003501c4d991$464db6c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <047f01c4d996$734c0460$0c02a8c0@LOSJKUOLT2> [about marcasite, or decomposed pyrite] >I kept several for my personal collection and gave the rest to our club >for the kids dig we had at the Mobile Show last weekend. It being a sulfur compound, I always tell our kids that handle them to wash their hands afterwards. (Always a good thing anyway, but since it's sulfur...) See: http://www.amrclearinghouse.org/Sub/SCARLIFTReports/LickingCreek/FormationTransportAMD.pdf and also: 4 FeS2(s) + 15 O2(aq) + 14 H2O(l) ? 4 Fe(OH)3(s) + 8 SO42-(aq) + 16 H+(aq) (1) or 4 FeS2(s) + 30 H2O2(aq) ? 4 Fe(OH)3(s) + 8 SO42-(aq) + 16 H+(aq) + 16 H2O(l) (2) Not good things for kids to stick their "used fingers" into their mouths. Also, all these chemical formulas about marcasite decomposition is what actually got me back into rockhounding. :-) Jimmy From tangojuli at yahoo.com Fri Dec 3 16:33:37 2004 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Fri Dec 3 16:33:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Glenn's spiders In-Reply-To: <004b01c4d995$3cec7360$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <20041204003337.23114.qmail@web60806.mail.yahoo.com> This sounds like those unbelieveable spiders that shared a bed n' breakfast with us on the Big Island--I thought they were called palm spiders 'cause we were surrounded by palm trees, but it was really cause they are the SIZE OF YOUR PALM. And they jump. smelling salts anyone? tangojuli Glenn Wimpee wrote: The "banana spider" is also known as the "bird spider" for the obvious reason that some believe it can catch small birds in its large web. They are also amongst the "golden orb spiders" for their beautiful webs. It can be the diameter of a grown woman's hand and is a variety of nephila. Its up to 3 inch long body is often colored like a slightly over ripe banana. We have another variety that is striped with a yellow, black, and white pattern. Really pretty. These don't crawl around, so when you find yourself entangled it is always around the head, face, and EYES! YIKES!!! Jeanette is trying to post a couple of pics. BTW, I got 15,400 hits when I typed nephila on Google. Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re:unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} > Once bitten, twice shy... . > > Is a banana spider one of those icky crawly tennis ball-sized monsters... > Like those you put your foot on and then say "take me to the supermarket"? > > Cheers > > Axel > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Send holiday email and support a worthy cause. Do good. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Fri Dec 3 16:35:23 2004 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Fri Dec 3 16:35:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pyrite oxydation In-Reply-To: <047f01c4d996$734c0460$0c02a8c0@LOSJKUOLT2> References: <200412030440.iB34etkT020241@bubbleator.drizzle.com><1102084089.41b077f9866ef@my2.dal.ca> <003501c4d991$464db6c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <047f01c4d996$734c0460$0c02a8c0@LOSJKUOLT2> Message-ID: <41B1064B.2070605@xs4all.nl> hmmmm I think that sulphuric acid in childrens fingers is not a big problem. Don't get me wrong, wahsing your hands is always good. But the formation of sulphuric acid does not happen that quickly. Otherwise pyrite would taste acidic and it does not....... OK I confess I tasted pyrite once. Not because I was bored with my normal meals, but hey it was dark in the bathroom and I was using that other toothbrush to clean pyrites during the day........ cheers, Maurice Jimmy Kuo wrote: >[about marcasite, or decomposed pyrite] > > >>I kept several for my personal collection and gave the rest to our club >>for the kids dig we had at the Mobile Show last weekend. >> >> > >It being a sulfur compound, I always tell our kids that handle them to wash >their hands afterwards. (Always a good thing anyway, but since it's >sulfur...) > >See: > >http://www.amrclearinghouse.org/Sub/SCARLIFTReports/LickingCreek/FormationTransportAMD.pdf > >and also: > > 4 FeS2(s) + 15 O2(aq) + 14 H2O(l) ? 4 Fe(OH)3(s) + 8 SO42-(aq) + 16 H+(aq) >(1) > >or > >4 FeS2(s) + 30 H2O2(aq) ? 4 Fe(OH)3(s) + 8 SO42-(aq) + 16 H+(aq) + 16 H2O(l) >(2) > >Not good things for kids to stick their "used fingers" into their mouths. > >Also, all these chemical formulas about marcasite decomposition is what >actually got me back into rockhounding. :-) > >Jimmy > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From geenet2 at mchsi.com Fri Dec 3 16:43:13 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Fri Dec 3 16:43:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] One of the "pets" Message-ID: <000901c4d99a$3d1cb8e0$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> Here's a link to a picture we took of one of the local spiders. Just a little one. http://home.mchsi.com/~geenet2/spider.html Jeanette --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html application/octet-stream --- From tangojuli at yahoo.com Fri Dec 3 16:49:41 2004 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Fri Dec 3 16:49:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] One of the "pets" In-Reply-To: <000901c4d99a$3d1cb8e0$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <20041204004941.50603.qmail@web60802.mail.yahoo.com> If THAT's a pet, what the family? smelling salts...where's the smelling salts...someone, QUICK! Jeanette Wimpee wrote: Here's a link to a picture we took of one of the local spiders. Just a little one. http://home.mchsi.com/~geenet2/spider.html Jeanette --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html application/octet-stream --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockcurrier at cs.com Fri Dec 3 20:53:59 2004 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Fri Dec 3 20:53:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Piles of rocks everywhere References: <200412040202.iB422fnR029582@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <017001c4d9bd$470b3660$bcf3a5d8@rock5> A word of warning to all of you with piles of rocks everywhere. At some point, unless you take care of the problem before hand, someone will take care of the problem for you when you die. I certainly understand the comforts and joys of having a lot of rocks around you. I have 10,000 square feet of rocks surrounding me every day at work. Several times each year I am called on the phone to see if I might be interested in taking care of piles of rocks (minerals, rocks etc) that other people accumulated during their life times. These range from a few chunks of petrified wood that their grandfather collected in Arizona back in the late 1800s to garages and rooms full of lapidary equipment and specimens and overgrown piles of rough rock that where collected from a lifetime of field trips and summer vacations. Usually in such cases, the property needs to be cleaned out so it can be put out on the real-estate market and sold. In some cases I advise the people that the material has little value and we would not have any interest in making an offer on it. In this case I advise them to call the local gem and mineral societies and offer the stuff to the members for free or at a nominal cost, like ten cents per pound. The ballance of the material is thrown into the trash or into one of the big rental dumptsers. Sometimes if there is enough tonnage of rough rocks of large enough size that have lapidary potential we offer 10 cents per pound and take the time to sort it into barrels of different kinds of rough that we can sell for a dollar or two per pound or in the worse case at fifty cents a pound. We end up throwing a lot of it in the trash anyway if we can't find a school or institution that can use it for teaching purposes. We can't store it very long for free nor spend much time or money advertising free rocks and specimens. I can't think of how many thousands of pounds of unlabled micromaterial I have thrown out in the trash. If the specimen material does not have labels with it and I can't sight identify it, most of it has no value at all and gets thrown in the trash. If you have a lot of rocks laying around the house. Put labels on them, preferably glue labels on the specimens. Without these, most of them will end up in the trash. The grim reaper gets us all in the end. As a friend of mine jokes, no one gets out of this world alive. In the sweap of history, more specimens have ended up in the trash that have ever been saved. How long your spcimens will survive depends to a great extent on how well you label them. After you die, the odds are that there will be persons in charge of your collection that know little or nothing about your specimens. Unless you make them look important (good labels, nice cabinets and specimen cabinets) they will think they are not, and throw them out in the trash or try and sell them at the local swap meet. At least if they look important, more care will be taken with their disposal and they will survive longer and be of more use to society. What will be the half life of you collection? How many years after you die will it be before half the specimens in you collection end up in the trash? You goal should be to increase the half life of your collection as much as possible. One of the micromount collections I bought was from the estate of a wonderful micromounter, Bob Massie. When asked if he had made any plans for the disposal of his collection he would say no. When asked why not, he said that when you were dead you were dead and since he didn't have any children or relatives it didn't make any difference. He just didn't care. He died without a will and his house and collections went to the state and were auctoned off by a local auctioneer that didn't know anything aobut minerals. If you feel, like Bob, and don't feel any responsibility for the things you accumulate during your life there is no point in anyone trying to arue with you and you should feel free to continue as you are, but if you worry at all about the minerals and specimens you have spent a lifetime accumulating, then you may want to spend some time taking care of them. Rock Currier From lanny at lrream.com Fri Dec 3 21:52:34 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Fri Dec 3 21:51:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pyrite oxydation In-Reply-To: <001501c4d97a$81f6f720$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> References: <000001c4d965$f8d1cd80$aac1f051@maxdata> <001501c4d97a$81f6f720$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: Hi John, They must be incredibly "rough" casts. As I recall, the Otter Rock pyrites show no form at all suggesting gastropods or pelecypods but just look like clusters of pyrite cubes with the outer shapes being what one would expect with cubes stuck together in various arrangements. You can see them in place and they are not in a cavity that could be a fossil mold. As I recall, they Boulder Creek pyrites fit Pete's example too. Soaking wet clay from which good solid pyrites can be collected. Did you ever make it up Tyson Creek and try panning for gold? Regards, Lanny On Dec 3, 2004, at 12:55 PM, John Siebel wrote: > Note that the Otter Rock, Oregon pyrites are rough casts of fossilized > gastropods and pelecypods in sandstone of the Miocene age (5-26 > million year > old) Astoria Formation. I don't know how this affects deterioration. > Perhaps > the calcium? Then there's Boulder Creek in Linn County, OR that has > beautiful little pyrite crystals in wet clay. > > John Siebel > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rik Dillen" > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors'" > > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 12:29 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Pyrite oxydation > > >> *The pyrite in the sediments on the Pacific Ocean beach just south of > Otter Rock, Oregon has been exposed for several thousand years >> (or >> more). The pyrite comes out of the rock shiny or with a thin >> "limonite" > coating. Take it home and forget it in a damp environment >> and it will >> be a black powdery mess in only a couple years. There must be >> something > more to this than just the water born oxygen. >> * >>>>>>> Reducing environment by bacteria ? >> Just an idea... >> Greetings, >> >> Rik DILLEN >> Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas >> Belgium >> >> E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be >> >> Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>>>> Belgian minerals >>>>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp >>>>> ! >>>>> Exchange list >> >> MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 >> Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) >> Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen >> http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html >> Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Fri Dec 3 21:44:31 2004 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Fri Dec 3 23:45:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pyrite oxydation References: <000001c4d965$f8d1cd80$aac1f051@maxdata><001501c4d97a$81f6f720$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <000d01c4d9c4$5b083b20$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Lanny, You're right. The Otter Rock (Oregon) pyrites are *very* rough casts. But if you work into the sandstone a bit you'll find that the less eroded ones are more true to form. My small collection of them is still packed away after two or three years and I have no idea how they're holding up. Finding them will be a good project for tomorrow when we expect to get snowed in. Perhaps I'll find the Boulder Creek stuff too. I think that I remember a DOGAMI paper about Otter Rock and I know it was mentioned in one of the Gladwell books. This summer was busier than I had hoped so we did not make it up Tyson Creek. I still have that information on my desktop though, so we'll get there eventually. We did hit Emerald Creek for garnet and Mica Mountain (Idaho) for books of muscovite and loads of small shorl tourmaline that got sent out to Kitty for her pebble pup lecture. Yours Truly - John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 11:52 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Pyrite oxydation > Hi John, > > They must be incredibly "rough" casts. As I recall, the Otter Rock > pyrites show no form at all suggesting gastropods or pelecypods but > just look like clusters of pyrite cubes with the outer shapes being > what one would expect with cubes stuck together in various > arrangements. You can see them in place and they are not in a cavity > that could be a fossil mold. > > As I recall, they Boulder Creek pyrites fit Pete's example too. Soaking > wet clay from which good solid pyrites can be collected. > > Did you ever make it up Tyson Creek and try panning for gold? > > Regards, > > Lanny > > On Dec 3, 2004, at 12:55 PM, John Siebel wrote: > > > Note that the Otter Rock, Oregon pyrites are rough casts of fossilized > > gastropods and pelecypods in sandstone of the Miocene age (5-26 > > million year > > old) Astoria Formation. I don't know how this affects deterioration. > > Perhaps > > the calcium? Then there's Boulder Creek in Linn County, OR that has > > beautiful little pyrite crystals in wet clay. > > > > John Siebel > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Rik Dillen" > > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors'" > > > > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 12:29 PM > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Pyrite oxydation > > > > > >> *The pyrite in the sediments on the Pacific Ocean beach just south of > > Otter Rock, Oregon has been exposed for several thousand years > >> (or > >> more). The pyrite comes out of the rock shiny or with a thin > >> "limonite" > > coating. Take it home and forget it in a damp environment > >> and it will > >> be a black powdery mess in only a couple years. There must be > >> something > > more to this than just the water born oxygen. > >> * > >>>>>>> Reducing environment by bacteria ? > >> Just an idea... > >> Greetings, > >> > >> Rik DILLEN > >> Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > >> Belgium > >> > >> E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > >> > >> Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > >>>>> Belgian minerals > >>>>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp > >>>>> ! > >>>>> Exchange list > >> > >> MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 > >> Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > >> Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > >> http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > >> Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Fri Dec 3 22:35:12 2004 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sat Dec 4 00:36:05 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Halite References: <000001c4d965$f8d1cd80$aac1f051@maxdata><001501c4d97a$81f6f720$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> <000d01c4d9c4$5b083b20$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <001301c4d9cb$6d6a7ba0$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Well, thanks to Lanny, I put on my pack boots and trudged through the snow to the shop, at midnight, to search for Otter Rock pyrites. I didn't find them. But on top of the pile I did find a box of halite from Searls Lake, Trona, California. The packing (toilet paper and newspaper) was soaking wet! I assume that they absorbed moisture from the air. Specimens are currently drying by the woodstove and are in surprisingly good condition after two years of storage. Now what? I figure they'll be fine through the winter's low humidity but how should I display/store them in the future? Thanks John From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Sat Dec 4 05:11:40 2004 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Sat Dec 4 05:11:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealistic faintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: Briti... Message-ID: Once when I was fossil collecting in a river bed near Washington DC with a friend we put our collecting buckets on a gravel bar in the creek we were in. As we dug the wall of the creek, I noticed that the gravel bar had lots of Wolf Spiders on it. Now these fellows are not big, maybe an inch.... or two with legs. But then they are not small either, and my buddy is afraid of spiders. Mind you he'll, chase a 5 foot snake up hill to pick it up and get a closer look, but he won't touch a spider. So naturally I put over a dozen of them in his bucket. Funny, he didn't buy the explanation that they crawled in there by themselves. Another time I was collecting in Texas, we were digging into a hole we had started weeks before to get some nice shark teeth. As I was about to begin, the fellow with me said "Aren't you going to remove the Black Widow first?". I thought he was kidding, but sure enough, it was the real thing, hourglass and all. Last one, we once spied a big spider crossing the road in East Texas. Now a spider has to be pretty big if you can see it from a Blazer going 65 MPH. I was proceeding to stop and go over to get a better look when one of the collectors with me informed me "You know they jump don't you?". (No I didn't) That was the end of that. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mosasaur47 at msn.com Sat Dec 4 08:07:01 2004 From: mosasaur47 at msn.com (Kenneth Quinn) Date: Sat Dec 4 06:07:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: Briti... References: Message-ID: > Last one, we once spied a big spider crossing the road in East Texas. Now a > spider has to be pretty big if you can see it from a Blazer going 65 MPH.. And they are found at least as far north as Stillwater, Oklahoma, where they are abundant. Kenneth Quinn From tangojuli at yahoo.com Sat Dec 4 06:08:23 2004 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Sat Dec 4 06:08:25 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Halite In-Reply-To: <001301c4d9cb$6d6a7ba0$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <20041204140823.79969.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com> John-- I've brought to Indiana via Milwaukee, two years of hunting at Searles in 2001 and 2002: here are my observations on maintaining this stuff in high humidity and freeze/thaw environments: 1. Keep halites (and other evaporites) in covered containers--I like the US Acrylic stuff--clear, nice for display and low cost. Your a dealer, so you can get them wholesale from the company. 2. some I sprayed with clearcoat. This does not hold up to our humidity here, and due to the uneven application on larger specimens, I've experienced spoty conversion as they start to absorb moisture. These have not survived as well 2-3 years later in my glass display case as the ones in the acrylic covers. 3. to fix these that have been exposed, I find I let them dry in a moisture free environment, then spray to avoid further deterioration, then put those in acrylic cases if they are worth it. If they have developed the crusties, brush off with a soft toothbrush lightly and blow with canned air before spraying w/ acrylic. Note: once exposed to elements, the bonds are loosened, lose a little lustre and they are more friable but still salvagable. This means that sometimes a little jarring will shatter the specimen. Non-display specimens are kept in sealed beer flats with spongy packing material (like I'm waiting to be a dealer or something!?) Those that were sprayed and kept this way in the beer flats in storage in my house have fared very well. Those out in the shed, exposed to temperature extremes (it's 26 degrees here right now) but sheilded from the sun and sealed in hefty bags haven't done too bad either but I haven't jarred them! Those left out in bright light at all fade in color, lose their cohesion, develop exzema and are really hard to give away. For your specimens, I'd recommend you clean them after they are completely dry (leave them on newspaper for a while until they no longer leave a damp residue), spray them with good acrylic spray to slow deterioration, and put in acrylic or some display case. In their own covered case, they will last longer than a non-sealed display case. Good luck! tinaintundra John Siebel wrote: Well, thanks to Lanny, I put on my pack boots and trudged through the snow to the shop, at midnight, to search for Otter Rock pyrites. I didn't find them. But on top of the pile I did find a box of halite from Searls Lake, Trona, California. The packing (toilet paper and newspaper) was soaking wet! I assume that they absorbed moisture from the air. Specimens are currently drying by the woodstove and are in surprisingly good condition after two years of storage. Now what? I figure they'll be fine through the winter's low humidity but how should I display/store them in the future? Thanks John _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lmcraft at wcc.net Sat Dec 4 07:00:35 2004 From: lmcraft at wcc.net (Marcia & Leroy Ingham) Date: Sat Dec 4 06:59:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: Briti... References: Message-ID: <002f01c4da12$027c8d00$a5770bd0@wcc.net> And the spiders do jump but they're not poisonous. I've seen them be so plentiful that they crawl up the sides of the houses & almost impossible to walk without stepping on them! Apparently they migrate at a certain time of year because they're all "on the move" at the same time & everywhere! Some type of non-poisonous tarantula but will scare you to death!! Marcia Ingham ----- Original Message ----- > > > Last one, we once spied a big spider crossing the road in East Texas. Now > a > > spider has to be pretty big if you can see it from a Blazer going 65 MPH.. > > And they are found at least as far north as Stillwater, Oklahoma, where they > are abundant. > > Kenneth Quinn > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 4 07:34:47 2004 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sat Dec 4 07:34:49 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Halite In-Reply-To: <001301c4d9cb$6d6a7ba0$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <20041204153447.75329.qmail@web51001.mail.yahoo.com> Store them in sealed containers- glass or plastic jars, or even zip-lok bags. Put them in the containers when the ambient humidity is low. Display is a lot more difficult. Micros are relatively simple. My website shows how to make an airtight mount. Larger specimens are a problem. Perhaps an airtight display case made from an old aquarium? Jim Daly Sauktown Sales www.sauktown.com --- John Siebel wrote: > Well, thanks to Lanny, I put on my pack boots and > trudged through the snow > to the shop, at midnight, to search for Otter Rock > pyrites. I didn't find > them. But on top of the pile I did find a box of > halite from Searls Lake, > Trona, California. The packing (toilet paper and > newspaper) was soaking wet! > I assume that they absorbed moisture from the air. > Specimens are currently > drying by the woodstove and are in surprisingly good > condition after two > years of storage. Now what? I figure they'll be fine > through the winter's > low humidity but how should I display/store them in > the future? > > Thanks John > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Dec 4 08:13:32 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Dec 4 08:13:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Halite In-Reply-To: <20041204140823.79969.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Spraying halite works if you do it thoroughly and all around. You most likely either kill or add fluorescence, however, depending on what you use. In my experience, acrylic spray blocks SW-UV. A good way to preserve halite is to soak it in a really saturated solution of kitchen salt (NaCl). The only thing that happens is that all potassium ions go into solution and are replaces by sodium. Pure sodium chloride isn't hygroscopic. Doesn't work for other evaporates like hanksite, glauberite... >>tinaintundra Axelintaiga ;-))) -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens tango juli Verzonden: zaterdag 4 december 2004 15:08 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Halite John-- I've brought to Indiana via Milwaukee, two years of hunting at Searles in 2001 and 2002: here are my observations on maintaining this stuff in high humidity and freeze/thaw environments: 1. Keep halites (and other evaporites) in covered containers--I like the US Acrylic stuff--clear, nice for display and low cost. Your a dealer, so you can get them wholesale from the company. 2. some I sprayed with clearcoat. This does not hold up to our humidity here, and due to the uneven application on larger specimens, I've experienced spoty conversion as they start to absorb moisture. These have not survived as well 2-3 years later in my glass display case as the ones in the acrylic covers. 3. to fix these that have been exposed, I find I let them dry in a moisture free environment, then spray to avoid further deterioration, then put those in acrylic cases if they are worth it. If they have developed the crusties, brush off with a soft toothbrush lightly and blow with canned air before spraying w/ acrylic. Note: once exposed to elements, the bonds are loosened, lose a little lustre and they are more friable but still salvagable. This means that sometimes a little jarring will shatter the specimen. Non-display specimens are kept in sealed beer flats with spongy packing material (like I'm waiting to be a dealer or something!?) Those that were sprayed and kept this way in the beer flats in storage in my house have fared very well. Those out in the shed, exposed to temperature extremes (it's 26 degrees here right now) but sheilded from the sun and sealed in hefty bags haven't done too bad either but I haven't jarred them! Those left out in bright light at all fade in color, lose their cohesion, develop exzema and are really hard to give away. For your specimens, I'd recommend you clean them after they are completely dry (leave them on newspaper for a while until they no longer leave a damp residue), spray them with good acrylic spray to slow deterioration, and put in acrylic or some display case. In their own covered case, they will last longer than a non-sealed display case. Good luck! tinaintundra John Siebel wrote: Well, thanks to Lanny, I put on my pack boots and trudged through the snow to the shop, at midnight, to search for Otter Rock pyrites. I didn't find them. But on top of the pile I did find a box of halite from Searls Lake, Trona, California. The packing (toilet paper and newspaper) was soaking wet! I assume that they absorbed moisture from the air. Specimens are currently drying by the woodstove and are in surprisingly good condition after two years of storage. Now what? I figure they'll be fine through the winter's low humidity but how should I display/store them in the future? Thanks John _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Dec 4 08:38:40 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Dec 4 08:38:42 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: Briti... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Enough already... we're out of quick salt. I said spiders, not sheepdogs! If it's that big, it's a horse and if you see a horse with 8 legs you should stay off the bourbon ;-))) We didn't have any poisonous spiders in Belgium but that may have changed... About two years ago, a moving truck lost about 60 young spiders with the mother in the wild... a subspecies of black widow. I don't know if they survived. We also have a jumping spider (many species jump, actually) that displays rather peculiar behavior. I 've seen them in our yard twice. They're about 2 cm large and built like the black widow with a large "aft"-segment. When you approach them they roll on their back and play dead but if you get too close they can jump astonishingly far. I 've seen one jump two meters... 100 times her body length. Imagine we could jump like that. Arachnafobiaxel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens FOSSILNUT@aol.com Verzonden: zaterdag 4 december 2004 14:12 Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: Briti... Once when I was fossil collecting in a river bed near Washington DC with a friend we put our collecting buckets on a gravel bar in the creek we were in. As we dug the wall of the creek, I noticed that the gravel bar had lots of Wolf Spiders on it. Now these fellows are not big, maybe an inch.... or two with legs. But then they are not small either, and my buddy is afraid of spiders. Mind you he'll, chase a 5 foot snake up hill to pick it up and get a closer look, but he won't touch a spider. So naturally I put over a dozen of them in his bucket. Funny, he didn't buy the explanation that they crawled in there by themselves. Another time I was collecting in Texas, we were digging into a hole we had started weeks before to get some nice shark teeth. As I was about to begin, the fellow with me said "Aren't you going to remove the Black Widow first?". I thought he was kidding, but sure enough, it was the real thing, hourglass and all. Last one, we once spied a big spider crossing the road in East Texas. Now a spider has to be pretty big if you can see it from a Blazer going 65 MPH. I was proceeding to stop and go over to get a better look when one of the collectors with me informed me "You know they jump don't you?". (No I didn't) That was the end of that. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tangojuli at yahoo.com Sat Dec 4 08:44:33 2004 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Sat Dec 4 08:44:36 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Halite In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041204164433.20954.qmail@web60805.mail.yahoo.com> As Axelintaiga (!) indicates, the spraying is an inexact science. If I was going to do it over, I'd get a little turntable to even out the application. At the time I was prepping mine, I had over 50 specimens I was trying to preserve. But I would caution against soaking Searles specimens in kitchen salt solution. You might use this solution SPARINGLY to lightly clean crystals, but extended application will not yeild results you'll want to display and you may end up with lots of new little crystals forming on your specimen (which could be cool--would that be secondary?) Jenny Rohl out in LA may chime in on this as she's quite the expert on preserving these; she donates a portion of her annual SEarles take to local museums for resale. The brine from Searles has other components (sulfates?) in it that vary in different parts of the lake and lead to either clear cubes or to the prized pink "cranberry" hopper xls. Soaking the hopper xls in any solution other than that which they grow in will definitely dissolve these delicate structures and possibly leach the anerobic bacteria that gives it the pinkish hue. The cubes (which are usually clear) may respond differently. The base on which the cubes grow is burkheit or one of two other minerals that don't respond well to table salt solution. I tried using a table salt solution to clean my muddy burkheit and cube specimens when I ran out of brine reserve. It also leaves a film which has to be wiped off the Xl faces before spraying but permanently mars the purplish burkheit.. After I left California, I spent months and months playing with, cleaning, tweaking and experimenting with my 20+ flats of the evaporites (mourning period of missing my rockcollecting in the desert). After Axel's warning a couple years ago, I was careful not to overspray my hanksites and halites for fear of the loss he reminds us about below. But the tradeoff is that those in my display cases but not in the sealed acrylic containers have to be "cleaned" every year, with a loss in lustre each time and ever fading and chipping acrylic for the exposed specimens. Some will tell you that putting them under hot lights will protect and preserve them, but I found that my prized cranberry halites faded with that treatment compared to those kept in the shadows or in storage boxes. . Please note that I'm in a high humidity environment so my comments are offered with that caveat. best, tina Axel Emmermann wrote: Spraying halite works if you do it thoroughly and all around. You most likely either kill or add fluorescence, however, depending on what you use. In my experience, acrylic spray blocks SW-UV. A good way to preserve halite is to soak it in a really saturated solution of kitchen salt (NaCl). The only thing that happens is that all potassium ions go into solution and are replaces by sodium. Pure sodium chloride isn't hygroscopic. Doesn't work for other evaporates like hanksite, glauberite... >>tinaintundra Axelintaiga ;-))) -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens tango juli Verzonden: zaterdag 4 december 2004 15:08 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Halite John-- I've brought to Indiana via Milwaukee, two years of hunting at Searles in 2001 and 2002: here are my observations on maintaining this stuff in high humidity and freeze/thaw environments: 1. Keep halites (and other evaporites) in covered containers--I like the US Acrylic stuff--clear, nice for display and low cost. Your a dealer, so you can get them wholesale from the company. 2. some I sprayed with clearcoat. This does not hold up to our humidity here, and due to the uneven application on larger specimens, I've experienced spoty conversion as they start to absorb moisture. These have not survived as well 2-3 years later in my glass display case as the ones in the acrylic covers. 3. to fix these that have been exposed, I find I let them dry in a moisture free environment, then spray to avoid further deterioration, then put those in acrylic cases if they are worth it. If they have developed the crusties, brush off with a soft toothbrush lightly and blow with canned air before spraying w/ acrylic. Note: once exposed to elements, the bonds are loosened, lose a little lustre and they are more friable but still salvagable. This means that sometimes a little jarring will shatter the specimen. Non-display specimens are kept in sealed beer flats with spongy packing material (like I'm waiting to be a dealer or something!?) Those that were sprayed and kept this way in the beer flats in storage in my house have fared very well. Those out in the shed, exposed to temperature extremes (it's 26 degrees here right now) but sheilded from the sun and sealed in hefty bags haven't done too bad either but I haven't jarred them! Those left out in bright light at all fade in color, lose their cohesion, develop exzema and are really hard to give away. For your specimens, I'd recommend you clean them after they are completely dry (leave them on newspaper for a while until they no longer leave a damp residue), spray them with good acrylic spray to slow deterioration, and put in acrylic or some display case. In their own covered case, they will last longer than a non-sealed display case. Good luck! tinaintundra John Siebel wrote: Well, thanks to Lanny, I put on my pack boots and trudged through the snow to the shop, at midnight, to search for Otter Rock pyrites. I didn't find them. But on top of the pile I did find a box of halite from Searls Lake, Trona, California. The packing (toilet paper and newspaper) was soaking wet! I assume that they absorbed moisture from the air. Specimens are currently drying by the woodstove and are in surprisingly good condition after two years of storage. Now what? I figure they'll be fine through the winter's low humidity but how should I display/store them in the future? Thanks John _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Dec 4 08:47:35 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Dec 4 08:47:36 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] One of the "pets" In-Reply-To: <000901c4d99a$3d1cb8e0$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: Pretty animal, Jeanette! Is the blue in the background your pool? Are there any alligators in it? If a tourist comes to Alabama, what is his MTBBBBSG? (mean time before being bitten by something ghastly) ROFL Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jeanette Wimpee Verzonden: zaterdag 4 december 2004 1:43 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] One of the "pets" Here's a link to a picture we took of one of the local spiders. Just a little one. http://home.mchsi.com/~geenet2/spider.html Jeanette --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html application/octet-stream --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Sat Dec 4 08:36:16 2004 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Sat Dec 4 08:49:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pyrite oxydation In-Reply-To: <001501c4d97a$81f6f720$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> References: <000001c4d965$f8d1cd80$aac1f051@maxdata> <001501c4d97a$81f6f720$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <41B1E780.5090107@tenforward.com> Hi John, I was curious, how did you come to the conclusion that these are casts? Thanks, John John Siebel wrote: >Note that the Otter Rock, Oregon pyrites are rough casts of fossilized >gastropods and pelecypods in sandstone of the Miocene age (5-26 million year >old) Astoria Formation. I don't know how this affects deterioration. Perhaps >the calcium? Then there's Boulder Creek in Linn County, OR that has >beautiful little pyrite crystals in wet clay. > >John Siebel > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Rik Dillen" >To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > >Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 12:29 PM >Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Pyrite oxydation > > > > >>*The pyrite in the sediments on the Pacific Ocean beach just south of >> >> >Otter Rock, Oregon has been exposed for several thousand years > > >>(or >>more). The pyrite comes out of the rock shiny or with a thin "limonite" >> >> >coating. Take it home and forget it in a damp environment > > >>and it will >>be a black powdery mess in only a couple years. There must be something >> >> >more to this than just the water born oxygen. > > >>* >> >> >>>>>>>Reducing environment by bacteria ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>Just an idea... >>Greetings, >> >>Rik DILLEN >>Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas >>Belgium >> >>E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be >> >>Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >> >> >>>>>Belgian minerals >>>>>An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>>>>Exchange list >>>>> >>>>> >>MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 >>Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) >>Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen >>http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html >>Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny at lrream.com Sat Dec 4 09:14:59 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sat Dec 4 09:13:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pyrite oxydation In-Reply-To: <000d01c4d9c4$5b083b20$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> References: <000001c4d965$f8d1cd80$aac1f051@maxdata><001501c4d97a$81f6f720$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> <000d01c4d9c4$5b083b20$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <073493C8-4618-11D9-87AE-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi John, I just checked Gladwell's guide, and he doesn't mention that they are casts. And those I picked up next to the outcrop were fresh and sharp, not eroded, so I don't think they lost any form from erosion. Haven't seen a DOGAMI report on the area. But that's just my feelings and memory, I'm a long way from the site! While you are looking around, find out where the Clarkia quartz locality is. The one that produces the milky crystals in groups with some to several inches long. I keep seeing specimens but they are always from someone who has obtained them from someone else, not any who has been there. Regards, Lanny On Dec 3, 2004, at 9:44 PM, John Siebel wrote: > Lanny, > > You're right. The Otter Rock (Oregon) pyrites are *very* rough casts. > But if > you work into the sandstone a bit you'll find that the less eroded > ones are > more true to form. My small collection of them is still packed away > after > two or three years and I have no idea how they're holding up. Finding > them > will be a good project for tomorrow when we expect to get snowed in. > Perhaps > I'll find the Boulder Creek stuff too. I think that I remember a DOGAMI > paper about Otter Rock and I know it was mentioned in one of the > Gladwell > books. > > This summer was busier than I had hoped so we did not make it up Tyson > Creek. I still have that information on my desktop though, so we'll get > there eventually. We did hit Emerald Creek for garnet and Mica Mountain > (Idaho) for books of muscovite and loads of small shorl tourmaline > that got > sent out to Kitty for her pebble pup lecture. > > Yours Truly - John > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lanny" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 11:52 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Pyrite oxydation From JWachsmuth at gmx.de Fri Dec 3 09:58:49 2004 From: JWachsmuth at gmx.de (Juergen Wachsmuth) Date: Sat Dec 4 09:25:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] European Rock and Mineral Collecting References: <196.336a07ff.2ee17b68@aol.com> Message-ID: <41B0A959.F2A0ABB3@gmx.de> Dear Tom, not easy to start an answer to your question. The topic geology of Europe alone is covered by more than a library. If possible do not go too early in the year to avoid rainy weather. Near Ulm where I am living there are no good mineral localities. We have mostly limestone here and possibilities for collecting fossils. A good place for minerals might be Grube Clara / Schwarzwald. The dump is open to collectors for a small fee on working days (Mon-Fri). There is new fresh material every day. If you need directions please ask again. If you decide to travel near Ulm please let me know, we could meet for some mineral talk. Corsica is a great place for hiking or swimming in the sea. Concerning minerals do not expect too much. You should be able to collect realgar/auripigment at Matra, and lead and copper secondary minerals at Ghisoni. Regards, J?rgen Wachsmuth Ulm - Germany TomE61@aol.com schrieb: > I am planning at least one, possibly two, trips to Europe during early 2005 > and I could use some help in identifying rock and mineral collecting > opportunities. > > I wish I were, but no, I am not an international jet-setter; I have an award > certificate from American Airlines that expires in April as well as a lot of > frequent flier miles that I want to use. > > As of right now, I am thinking about Germany (Frankfurt) and Corsica, since > those are two places I've not yet been to, but I've made no reservations and > nothing is cast in stone (no pun intended). A lot will ultimately depend on > flight and hotel availability. > > I've been doing a lot of web-based research, and although its enjoyable, it > is very time-consuming. > > So any information that the community can share would be most welcome. It > could be as general as the geology of Europe, or specific to any particular > country or geographic area. Websites and publications will help a lot, but I know > I would benefit from and enjoy reading about personal experiences as well. > > And, although I can get by with a few European languages, it would probably > be best if the information had an English language option. > > Thank you in advance for any help and suggestions and I wish all of you a > very happy, safe and rewarding holiday season. > > Regards, > Tom Russell > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kadok at infowest.com Sat Dec 4 09:41:46 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sat Dec 4 09:41:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: Briti... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041204174144.371F9CBA1AF@delivery.infowest.com> Your Wolf Spiders are miniatures, compared to the ones we have here in Utah. I woke up one morning in my dormitory room in Zion, and there was one calmly clinging to the ceiling right above me. About 6-8 inches in diameter (legs included). About tarantula size. Only my prior knowledge that they are not only harmless (to us), but also quite beneficial creatures saved me from --ummm -- "getting a bit upset!". Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of FOSSILNUT@aol.com Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 6:12 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: Briti... Once when I was fossil collecting in a river bed near Washington DC with a friend we put our collecting buckets on a gravel bar in the creek we were in. As we dug the wall of the creek, I noticed that the gravel bar had lots of Wolf Spiders on it. Now these fellows are not big, maybe an inch.... or two with legs. But then they are not small either, and my buddy is afraid of spiders. Mind you he'll, chase a 5 foot snake up hill to pick it up and get a closer look, but he won't touch a spider. So naturally I put over a dozen of them in his bucket. Funny, he didn't buy the explanation that they crawled in there by themselves. Another time I was collecting in Texas, we were digging into a hole we had started weeks before to get some nice shark teeth. As I was about to begin, the fellow with me said "Aren't you going to remove the Black Widow first?". I thought he was kidding, but sure enough, it was the real thing, hourglass and all. Last one, we once spied a big spider crossing the road in East Texas. Now a spider has to be pretty big if you can see it from a Blazer going 65 MPH. I was proceeding to stop and go over to get a better look when one of the collectors with me informed me "You know they jump don't you?". (No I didn't) That was the end of that. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kadok at infowest.com Sat Dec 4 09:44:06 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sat Dec 4 09:44:06 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: Briti... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041204174403.C10BACB9222@delivery.infowest.com> Hi, Kenneth -- Most likely a tarantula, I think. I was born and raised in Oklahoma, and went to college in Stillwater, and tarantulas are about the only BIG spiders I recall from there. Margaret > Last one, we once spied a big spider crossing the road in East Texas. Now a > spider has to be pretty big if you can see it from a Blazer going 65 MPH.. And they are found at least as far north as Stillwater, Oklahoma, where they are abundant. Kenneth Quinn _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From TomE61 at aol.com Sat Dec 4 10:51:44 2004 From: TomE61 at aol.com (TomE61@aol.com) Date: Sat Dec 4 10:51:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Lack of Counterspace Message-ID: <9d.543e5c2e.2ee36140@aol.com> I enjoyed reading all of the postings about "lack of counterspace" and can certainly appreciate all that we go through to house our treasures. I live in a reasonably sized studio (by NYC standards, that means larger than a closet) and in addition to collecting rocks and minerals, I also collect books and the fancier wooden cigar boxes. Imagine almost 100 cigar boxes just hanging on shelves all over the place. I learned very quickly to have the boxes serve double duty. Now I store a lot of rocks and minerals in the boxes and it seems to work quite well. BUT, I still have specimens all over the bathroom (I got rid of the magazine rack a long time ago) and they are slowly working their way into the kitchen. I probably won't use the refrigerator to store any specimens, but the spice rack is another story. And those empty spice bottles make nice collection devices for smaller, but durable minerals. I live alone. There is no significant other, not even a pet, in residence. Right now, there's just not enough room. Besides, I can't think of any man, woman or animal that would enjoy waking up with a hammer and chisel under the pillow. (For the record, that has only happened to me once so far.) With the colder weather here and the chance to go on field trips pretty slim, I suppose I'll spend more time indoors, seeking out creative ways to store and display my collection. Look forward to hearing more stories (or suggestions) about this. Happy holidays, Tom Russell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jr50wv at yahoo.com Sat Dec 4 10:56:26 2004 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Sat Dec 4 10:56:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] spiders and European rocks Message-ID: <20041204185626.16873.qmail@web41005.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all: About spiders, I too was once really REALLY afraid of bugs in general, and spiders and wasps in particular. This is bad, because the world is full of these things! Somehow, I got over it. We have golden orb spiders here on the farm, and their webs are really striking in the mornings, covered with dew, as the rising sun hits them. But once they get up to 6 inches across, I'm loosing my cool if they're on me! We also have wolf spiders, which are dark brown, large, and way carniverous! When I find one in the house, I use a clear glass container, which they can't really see, scoop them up, and put them out in the woods. They are an occupational hazard for anyone exploring, like geo-cachers and rock-hounds. Regarding rock collecting in Europe, my wife and I are seriously considering a trip to France next June, to visit Brittany to see the standing stones, Ste Marie aux Mines to visit the show, and the caves of S Fr. to see the paintings and other neolithic remains. I would love to visit and collect with anyone over there... Anyone with first-hand knowledge of these places, events and things, please, any advice will be greatly appreciated. We've never been out of the USofA before, and are a little apprehensive, given the world's current geopolitical mess. I feel like a wimp, now, just saying that, when so many folks travel to S. Asia, Brazil, Africa, buying specimens for us back home to drool over, but when you're a home-body who doesn't travel much, well, there you are, right? Tnanks, all, and Keep on Rockin' JR in WV __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo From rainforest1950 at lycos.com Sat Dec 4 11:00:56 2004 From: rainforest1950 at lycos.com (rain forest) Date: Sat Dec 4 11:00:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] I got rocks in my . . . Message-ID: <20041204190056.BAB8BCA07A@ws7-4.us4.outblaze.com> Garden, walkways and driveway. Those things that are on my desk, entertainment center, windowcills, bookshelves, table, kitchen counter, bathroom counter, and other nooks and crannies are . . . . all valuable mineral specimens. David Bese The Rainforest Hippie Pt. Orchard, Wa. -- _______________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 From jabac at hal-pc.org Sat Dec 4 12:16:53 2004 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Sat Dec 4 11:14:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unrealistic fainthearted pebble-picking amateurs In-Reply-To: <25.5381839b.2edd85d1@aol.com> References: <25.5381839b.2edd85d1@aol.com> Message-ID: <1102191413.2725.3.camel@localhost> On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 02:14, MCGINNISG@aol.com wrote: > Are there any unrealistic fainthearted pebble-picking amateurs amongst this > group??? > I would suppose they are unrealistic for only one or two field trips; then they become realistic, though still faint-hearted, and make a decision to stay with it or move on to some other madness. So if you are among those who have stuck with it, wear the label proudly -- you earned it! john From WTompkcccc at aol.com Sat Dec 4 11:36:04 2004 From: WTompkcccc at aol.com (WTompkcccc@aol.com) Date: Sat Dec 4 11:36:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pyrite oxydation Message-ID: <144.3a4ae5f9.2ee36ba4@aol.com> In a message dated 12/4/04 9:14:04 AM, lanny@lrream.com writes: << Hi John, I just checked Gladwell's guide, and he doesn't mention that they are casts. And those I picked up next to the outcrop were fresh and sharp, not eroded, so I don't think they lost any form from erosion. Haven't seen a DOGAMI report on the area. But that's just my feelings and memory, I'm a long way from the site! >> Lanny- I have in my collection a Moon Snail fossil from Otter Rock that is 2" across and when you turn it over you find that it is filled with pyrite/marcasite cubes. It's my favorite find from Otter Rock, usually all we found were disks of pyrite/marcasite. Also, here is a copy of an old report on the fossils from that area. Otter Rock is locality #3. Bill Tompkins ----------------------------------------------------- REPRINTED (REVISED) FROM The ORE BIN Vol. 16, No. 4, p. 21 to 26 April 1954 FOSSIL LOCALITIES OF LINCOLN COUNTY BEACHES, OREGON by Margaret L. Steere, Geologist, State of Oregon Department of Geology and Mineral Industries Geologic Picture Many fossils occur in the old marine sediments which form cliffs behind the beaches of Lincoln County, Oregon. Particularly fossiliferous is the Astoria Formation, which crops out almost continuously along the coast from the town of Lincoln Beach south to Yaquina Bay. Its areal distribution is shown as the shaded portion on the accompanying map, and in this long, narrow strip fossils may be found in unweathered road cuts as well as along the beach cliffs. The Astoria Formation is composed chiefly of blue-gray sandstones and shales that were deposited during middle Miocene time, about 20 million years ago, when the shore line of the sea was somewhat east of its present position. The name "Astoria Formation" is applied to these Miocene sediments in Lincoln County because of their similarity to the type Astoria Formation at Astoria in Clatsop County, Oregon. Shells of mollusks (see accompanying sketches) are concentrated in great numbers in certain layers of the Astoria sediments. Scattered through the formation are many large, ball-like concretions which when split open, expose masses of fossil shells. Occasionally concretions are found that contain the fossil bones of whales and sea lions. Overlying the Astoria Formation in many places along the coastare thick deposits of brown and yellow dune sands of Pleistocene or Recent origin. These nonfossiliferous sands are readily distinguished from the older sandstone by their distinctive yellowish color and general lack of consolidation. Two other fossil-bearing formations, older than the Astoria, crop out along the shore of Yaquina Bay. They include the gray Nye Mudstone of early Miocene age and the yellow, iron-stained sandstones of the Yaquina Formation of late Oligocene age. Fossil shells are scarce in the Nye Mudstone but are numerous in the Yaquina Formation. The Yaquina Formation also contains fossil plant fragments and coal. Fossil Localities Five of the best places to find fossils along the Lincoln County beaches are described below: 1. Fogarty Creek State Park U.S. Highway 101 crosses Fogarty Creek 1.0 mile south of the Lincoln Beach Post Office. There is a parking space and picnic area on the east side of the highway, and a trail leads under the bridge directly out to the beach. Fossils and concretions containing fossils can be found in the Astoria Formation which forms the cliffs along the beach both north and south of the creek. 2. Depoe Bay The fossiliferous Astoria Formation crops out in the high cliff at the north end of the small inner bay, east of the highway bridge. The locality is easily reached by way of a road which follows around the north end of this bay to the Coast Guard Station at water level. The base of the cliff can be reached at low tide, 3. Otter Rock Fossils can be found in the sea cliffs below Devils Punch Bowl State Park, which is 0.4 mile west of the highway at Otter Rock. A good foot trail leads down to the beach from the south- east corner of the park. Buff-colored sandstone, which forms the high cliffs of the point, yields a few fossils. The blue-gray Astoria Formation, containing only a few fossils at this particular locality, crops out at the foot of the trail and is continuous,and locally very fossiliferous, as far as Yaquina Head, 5 miles to the south. 4. Beverly Beach State Park Many welI -preserved fossiIs and concretions containing fossiIs can be found in the low sea cliffs at Beverly Beach State Park. The park is on Spencer Creek 6 miles south of Depoe Bay. Camping, picnic, and parking areas lie east of the highway, and from them a trail leads under Spencer Creek bridge and out to the beach. The sea cliffs here and for the next 4 miles south are composed of fossiliferous Astoria sandstone: this same rock is sometimes exposed on the floor of the beach, especially during the winter when storms sweep away the sand. Various turnouts along U.S. Highway 101 south of Beverly Beach State Park also provide access to the beach area and fossil beds. 5. Yaquina Bay Road cuts in cliffs along the north shore of Yaquina Bay expose thin beds of Nye Mudstone with thicker layers of very hard, light-colored concretions. Fish scales and vertebrae and small mollusks can be found in the mudstone in a series of outcrops along the Yaquina Bay road between 1 and 2 miles east of Newport . At the east end of Yaquina Bay, beginning about 4 miles from Newport, fossil mollusks are numerous in certain places in yellow sandstone of the Yaquina Formation. An outcrop just north of the Yaquina store has been productive in the past. A road cut 1.7 miles beyond the store, at river light No. 25, contains fossil leaf imprints in westward dipping cream-colored sandstone. An underlying carbonaceous layer of shale contains fossil wood. Names of the Fossils When a paleontologist discovers a new fossiI, he gives it three names, two of which are Greek or Latin, the third his own name. For instance, a certain mollusk which is very abundant along the Lincoln County beaches has been named "Anadara devincta Conrad." The first name, Anadara, is the genus, denoting a group of fossils all members of which look something alike. Next comes the species name, devincta, which differentiates the fossil from all others of that genus. And last is the name of the paleontologist himself - in this case, Conrad. After a description of the species has been published, the name is adopted internationally. The amateur fossil hunter will find that it is very difficult to tell one species from another, but that it is fairly easy to identify the genus of a well-preserved specimen by carefully comparing it to pictures and descriptions in the literatvre. Fossils which are found in greatest abundance along the Lincoln County beaches are the mollusks. Mollusks are a large family of animols having protective shells, the most common types being pelecypods and gastropods. These two important groups are easily differentiated: pelecypods have two shells and resemble clams: gastropods have one coiled shell and resemble snails, At least 60 species of fossil mollusks (pelecypods and gastropods in approximately equal numbers) have been found in the Astoria Formation in Lincoln County and more than half that number in the Yaquina Formation. All of these species have been described and most of them illustrated in the literature (see bibliography). The names listed below represent only a few of the many species of pelecypods and gastropods characteristic of the Astoria and Yaquina Formations. Some of these fossils are shown in the accompanying sketches. Astoria Formation Yaquina Formation Gastropods: Bruclarkia oregonensis (Conrad) Ficvs modestvs Conrad Natica oregonensis (Conrad) Turritella oregonensis Conrad Bruclarkia columbiana (Anderson and Martin) Fusi nus I i ncol ne nsi s Weaver Calyptraea mammillaris Broderip For many years fossil hunters, both amateur and professional, have been finding fossil bones of marine mammals in the outcrops of the Astoria Formation along the Lincoln County beaches, Most of the bones have been identified as belonging to pinnipeds (seals and walruses), cetaceans (whales), and sirenians (sea cows). The majority of the finds have been separate parts of skeletons, such as skulls, jaw bones, and vertebrae. More rarely is an entire skeleton discovered. The best preserved specimens are generally found in the hard sandstone concretions. Among the mammals identified from the Astoria Formation are the following: Sirenians (sea cows) Desmostylus Hannibal Desmostylus Marsh (extinct species) Pinnipeds (seals and walruses) Desmatophoca oregonensis Condon Cetaceans (whales) Cophocetus oregonensis Packard and Kelrogg Remains of other vertebrate dwellers in the Miocene sea, which have been found in the Astoria Formation, include a very large turtle skull, fish vertebrae, and shark teeth. Bibliography Cushman, J. A., Stewart, R. E., and Stewart, K. C., 1947, Astoria Miocene foraminifera from Agate Beach, Lincoln County, Oregon: Oreg. Dept. Geol. and Mineral Indust. Bull 36, part 2. Daugherty, Lloyd F., 1951, The mollusco and foraminifera of Depoe Bay, Oregon: Oreg. Univ. Master's Thesis. Herron, John E., 1953, Stratigraphy of the Miocene Agate Beach Formation in Lincoln County, Oregon: Oregon State Cell. Master's Thesis Moore, Ellen I., 1963, Miocene mollusks from the Astoria Formation in Oregon: U.S. Geol. Survey Prof. Paper 419. Moore, Ellen I., 1971, Fossil mollusks of coastal Oregon (Newport area):Oregon State Univ. Press, Studies in Geology No. 10. Packard, Earl L., 1940, A new turtle from the marine Miocene of Oregon: Oreg. State Cell. Mon., Studies in Geol. No. 2. Packard, Earl L., 1947, A pinniped humerus from the Astoria Miocene of Oregon: Oreg. State Cell. Mon., Studies in Geol. No. 7. Packard, Earl L., and Kellogg, Remjngton, 1934, A new Cetothere from the Miocene Astoria Formation of Newport, Oregon: Carnegie Inst. Washington Pub. 447. Schenck, Hubert G., 1936, Nuculid bivalves of the genus Acila: Geol. Soc. Am. Spec. Paper 4. Snavely, P. D., Jr., and Vokes, H. E., 1949, The coastal area between Cape Kiwanda and Cape Foulweather, Oregon: U.S. Geol. Survey Oil and Gas Invest. Map 97, with text. Snavely, P. D., Jr., and MacLeod, N. S., 1969, Geology of the Newport area, Oregon, Parts 1 and 2: Ore Bin, v. 31, no. 2 and 3. Vokes, H. E., Norbisrath, Hans, and Snavely, P. D., Jr., 1949, Geology of the Newport- Waldport area, Lincoln County, Oregon: U.S. Geol. Survey Map OM 88. Weaver. Charles E.. 1937 Tertiary stratigraphy of western Washington and north- western Oregon: Wash. Univ. Publ. in Geol., vol. 4. Weaver, Charles E., 1942. Paleontology of the marine Tertiary formations of Oregon and Washington, Wash. Univ. Publ. in Geol., vol. 5. From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sat Dec 4 09:52:37 2004 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sat Dec 4 11:53:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pyrite oxydation References: <144.3a4ae5f9.2ee36ba4@aol.com> Message-ID: <005a01c4da2a$131d85c0$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Hi Bill! I was hoping you'd show up on this thread. I was looking through old email to see if you had sent me info on Otter Rock to no avail. Thanks and I hope you're well. Also, from Jon Gladwell's "The Best of Crystals and Minerals" 1998, p.34, "...brown to blackish weathered nodules up to an inch or two across, which turn out to be rough casts of pyrite after sea shells." John ----- Original Message ----- From: > > In a message dated 12/4/04 9:14:04 AM, lanny@lrream.com writes: > > << Hi John, > > I just checked Gladwell's guide, and he doesn't mention that they are > casts. And those I picked up next to the outcrop were fresh and sharp, > not eroded, so I don't think they lost any form from erosion. Haven't > seen a DOGAMI report on the area. > > But that's just my feelings and memory, I'm a long way from the site! >> > > Lanny- > > I have in my collection a Moon Snail fossil from Otter Rock that is 2" > across and when you turn it over you find that it is filled with pyrite/marcasite > cubes. It's my favorite find from Otter Rock, usually all we found were disks > of pyrite/marcasite. > > Also, here is a copy of an old report on the fossils from that area. Otter > Rock is locality #3. > > Bill Tompkins From kahako at aloha.net Sat Dec 4 13:02:32 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Dec 4 12:32:52 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:Rocks for kids In-Reply-To: <000d01c4d9c4$5b083b20$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> References: <000001c4d965$f8d1cd80$aac1f051@maxdata> <001501c4d97a$81f6f720$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> <000d01c4d9c4$5b083b20$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041204101816.050b3470@mail.aloha.net> Here's an update on my Rocks for Hawaii School Kids project: To those who have already sent stuff, I'm planning to send you some bits of Hawaii, and am feeling guilty about not having done so sooner (we've been busy). I've received some very neat things, and there are going to be many enthusiastic new young rockhounds as a result. Therein lies a story: I have a ten-year-old friend who comes over nearly every weekend to do ceramics or crafts, etc. She has been somewhat interested in the rocks in our display cabinets. But when the packages of samples for my upcoming school sessions started arriving, she became entranced. She unpacked packages, carefully examined specimens, looked at crystals with a loupe, grouped like-materials on a bridge table I set up (all other flat surfaces are already occupied, of course), and she became completely hooked on rocks. That's the good news. The bad news is that although I made sure she kept any tags with the correct items to indicate their name and location, I forgot until too late to keep track of which batches of material came out of which box. So I have very little record of who sent me what. In some cases it is obvious---like quarts crystals from Stuart Schmitt's Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine. In other cases the person told me in an e-mail exactly what they were going to send, so it is easy to match the material with the e-mail. But others of you kind people presented me with surprises. So I will send individual packages of Hawaii goodies to you all, but if I have to ask you to identify the specific material you sent, please forgive me for being careless in the midst of a young girl's enthusiasm. And you can console yourself with the fact that you already have encouraged one very excited young rockhound, and there will be many more to come in January when I start my school sessions. For you newbies, I give demonstrations for schools two or three times a year, and I decided that instead of just "show and tell" I would try to give each child a couple of rocks to keep. Since kids in Hawaii seldom see anything other than sand or lava, I thought it would be particularly nice if they could have something like a pyrite cube, a quartz crystal, a bit of mica, a fossil, etc. If anyone else wants to add to my Rocks for Hawaii School Kids project, let me know off list, please. And thank you again to all you generous folks who have already contributed. Aloha, Kitty -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.5 - Release Date: 12/3/2004 From lanny at lrream.com Sat Dec 4 13:23:22 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sat Dec 4 13:22:05 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pyrite oxydation In-Reply-To: <144.3a4ae5f9.2ee36ba4@aol.com> References: <144.3a4ae5f9.2ee36ba4@aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Bill, Thanks for the info. I do notice that the Ore Bin report does not state that the pyrite clusters are from fossils, only that fossils also in the formation. I guess the next time I'm hanging around the Oregon coast I'm going to have to go back to Otter Rock and take another look at the occurrence again. When I looked at it the first time, I did not notice any fossil form/outline or other indication around those pyrites I looked at in the exposure, just a cluster of cubes enclosed in the soft rock. How coarse are the pyrites in your snail? Regards, Lanny > Lanny- > > I have in my collection a Moon Snail fossil from Otter Rock that is > 2" > across and when you turn it over you find that it is filled with > pyrite/marcasite > cubes. It's my favorite find from Otter Rock, usually all we found > were disks > of pyrite/marcasite. > > Also, here is a copy of an old report on the fossils from that area. > Otter > Rock is locality #3. > > Bill Tompkins From WTompkcccc at aol.com Sat Dec 4 13:42:13 2004 From: WTompkcccc at aol.com (WTompkcccc@aol.com) Date: Sat Dec 4 13:42:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pyrite oxydation Message-ID: <9a.1b1be746.2ee38935@aol.com> In a message dated 12/4/04 1:22:33 PM, lanny@lrream.com writes: << How coarse are the pyrites in your snail? >> Lanny- The pyrites in the snail are 1/8" or smaller, much finer than some of the other pieces I found at Otter Rock where the pyrites sometimes reach 1/4" across. It lookes to me like the pyrites cluster or nucleate around some central object, kinda like the concretions from K-M Mt., WA. where the crabs are found in clay balls. Bill From lanny at lrream.com Sat Dec 4 13:40:47 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sat Dec 4 13:42:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pyrite oxydation In-Reply-To: <005a01c4da2a$131d85c0$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> References: <144.3a4ae5f9.2ee36ba4@aol.com> <005a01c4da2a$131d85c0$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <287A2B32-463D-11D9-87AE-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi John, It's beginning to look like the pyrite around Otter Rock may occur in three ways. What I have been referring to are coarse pyrite crystal clusters. These have cubes up to a half inch or so in clusters. These have no indications of having come from fossils; they are complete floaters. If they occurred in the mold of a fossil, they would most likely have at least one curved side where they rested on the wall of the mold. A second occurrence is the small crystals in cavities in the fossils, such as in Bill's moon snail. The third occurrence, the larger black to brown nodules of pyrite that may be the rough casts of fossils. Gladwell doesn't mention either of the latter two in his first field guide which has the original Otter Rock listing, and I don't have his "Best of." I wanted to get back to Otter Rock and get a couple of the coarse pyrite clusters to try to preserve them for my collection, now there are more reasons to spend more time and take a longer look at those outcrops. Regards, Lanny On Dec 4, 2004, at 9:52 AM, John Siebel wrote: > Hi Bill! > > I was hoping you'd show up on this thread. I was looking through old > email > to see if you had sent me info on Otter Rock to no avail. Thanks and I > hope > you're well. > > Also, from Jon Gladwell's "The Best of Crystals and Minerals" 1998, > p.34, > "...brown to blackish weathered nodules up to an inch or two across, > which > turn out to be rough casts of pyrite after sea shells." > > John > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > > >> >> In a message dated 12/4/04 9:14:04 AM, lanny@lrream.com writes: >> >> << Hi John, >> >> I just checked Gladwell's guide, and he doesn't mention that they are >> casts. And those I picked up next to the outcrop were fresh and sharp, >> not eroded, so I don't think they lost any form from erosion. Haven't >> seen a DOGAMI report on the area. >> >> But that's just my feelings and memory, I'm a long way from the site! >> >> >> >> Lanny- >> >> I have in my collection a Moon Snail fossil from Otter Rock that is >> 2" >> across and when you turn it over you find that it is filled with > pyrite/marcasite >> cubes. It's my favorite find from Otter Rock, usually all we found >> were > disks >> of pyrite/marcasite. >> >> Also, here is a copy of an old report on the fossils from that area. > Otter >> Rock is locality #3. >> >> Bill Tompkins > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Sat Dec 4 13:29:44 2004 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Sat Dec 4 13:48:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pyrite oxydation In-Reply-To: <144.3a4ae5f9.2ee36ba4@aol.com> References: <144.3a4ae5f9.2ee36ba4@aol.com> Message-ID: <41B22C48.5040502@tenforward.com> Hi Bill and Everyone, Thank you for this wonderful information, I really appreciate it. All the very best, John WTompkcccc@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 12/4/04 9:14:04 AM, lanny@lrream.com writes: > ><< Hi John, > >I just checked Gladwell's guide, and he doesn't mention that they are >casts. And those I picked up next to the outcrop were fresh and sharp, >not eroded, so I don't think they lost any form from erosion. Haven't >seen a DOGAMI report on the area. > >But that's just my feelings and memory, I'm a long way from the site! >> > > Lanny- > > I have in my collection a Moon Snail fossil from Otter Rock that is 2" >across and when you turn it over you find that it is filled with pyrite/marcasite >cubes. It's my favorite find from Otter Rock, usually all we found were disks >of pyrite/marcasite. > > Also, here is a copy of an old report on the fossils from that area. Otter >Rock is locality #3. > > Bill Tompkins >----------------------------------------------------- > >REPRINTED (REVISED) FROM The ORE BIN > Vol. 16, No. 4, p. 21 to 26 April 1954 > > FOSSIL LOCALITIES OF LINCOLN COUNTY BEACHES, OREGON >by Margaret L. Steere, Geologist, >State of Oregon Department of Geology and Mineral Industries > > > Geologic Picture > Many fossils occur in the old marine sediments which form cliffs >behind the beaches of Lincoln County, Oregon. Particularly fossiliferous is the >Astoria Formation, which crops out almost continuously along the coast from the >town of Lincoln Beach south to Yaquina Bay. Its areal distribution is shown >as the shaded portion on the accompanying map, and in this long, narrow strip >fossils may be found in unweathered road cuts as well as along the beach >cliffs. > The Astoria Formation is composed chiefly of blue-gray sandstones >and shales that were deposited during middle Miocene time, about 20 million >years ago, when the shore line of the sea was somewhat east of its present >position. The name "Astoria Formation" is applied to these Miocene sediments in >Lincoln County because of their similarity to the type Astoria Formation at Astoria >in Clatsop County, Oregon. > Shells of mollusks (see accompanying sketches) are concentrated in >great numbers in certain layers of the Astoria sediments. Scattered through >the formation are many large, ball-like concretions which when split open, >expose masses of fossil shells. Occasionally concretions are found that contain the >fossil bones of whales and sea lions. > Overlying the Astoria Formation in many places along the coastare >thick deposits of brown and yellow dune sands of Pleistocene or Recent origin. >These nonfossiliferous sands are readily distinguished from the older sandstone >by their distinctive yellowish color and general lack of consolidation. > Two other fossil-bearing formations, older than the Astoria, crop >out along the shore of Yaquina Bay. They include the gray Nye Mudstone of early >Miocene age and the yellow, iron-stained sandstones of the Yaquina Formation >of late Oligocene age. Fossil shells are scarce in the Nye Mudstone but are >numerous in the Yaquina Formation. The Yaquina Formation also contains fossil >plant fragments and coal. > > > Fossil Localities > Five of the best places to find fossils along the Lincoln County >beaches are described below: >1. Fogarty Creek State Park > U.S. Highway 101 crosses Fogarty Creek 1.0 mile south of the Lincoln >Beach Post Office. There is a parking space and picnic area on the east side of >the highway, and a trail leads under the bridge directly out to the beach. >Fossils and concretions containing fossils can be found in the Astoria Formation >which forms the cliffs along the beach both north and south of the creek. >2. Depoe Bay > The fossiliferous Astoria Formation crops out in the high cliff at the >north end of the small inner bay, east of the highway bridge. The locality is >easily reached by way of a road which follows around the north end of this bay >to the Coast Guard Station at water level. The base of the cliff can be >reached at low tide, >3. Otter Rock > Fossils can be found in the sea cliffs below Devils Punch Bowl State >Park, which is 0.4 mile west of the highway at Otter Rock. A good foot trail >leads down to the beach from the south- east corner of the park. Buff-colored >sandstone, which forms the high cliffs of the point, yields a few fossils. The >blue-gray Astoria Formation, containing only a few fossils at this particular >locality, crops out at the foot of the trail and is continuous,and locally very >fossiliferous, as far as Yaquina Head, 5 miles to the south. >4. Beverly Beach State Park > Many welI -preserved fossiIs and concretions containing fossiIs can >be found in the low sea cliffs at Beverly Beach State Park. The park is on >Spencer Creek 6 miles south of Depoe Bay. Camping, picnic, and parking areas lie >east of the highway, and from them a trail leads under Spencer Creek bridge >and out to the beach. The sea cliffs here and for the next 4 miles south are >composed of fossiliferous Astoria sandstone: this same rock is sometimes exposed >on the floor of the beach, especially during the winter when storms sweep >away the sand. Various turnouts along U.S. Highway 101 south of Beverly Beach >State Park also provide access to the beach area and fossil beds. >5. Yaquina Bay > Road cuts in cliffs along the north shore of Yaquina Bay expose thin >beds of Nye Mudstone with thicker layers of very hard, light-colored >concretions. Fish scales and vertebrae and small mollusks can be found in the mudstone >in a series of outcrops along the Yaquina Bay road between 1 and 2 miles east >of Newport . > At the east end of Yaquina Bay, beginning about 4 miles from Newport, >fossil mollusks are numerous in certain places in yellow sandstone of the >Yaquina Formation. An outcrop just north of the Yaquina store has been productive >in the past. A road cut 1.7 miles beyond the store, at river light No. 25, >contains fossil leaf imprints in westward dipping cream-colored sandstone. An >underlying carbonaceous layer of shale contains fossil wood. >Names of the Fossils > When a paleontologist discovers a new fossiI, he gives it three >names, two of which are Greek or Latin, the third his own name. For instance, a >certain mollusk which is very abundant along the Lincoln County beaches has been >named "Anadara devincta Conrad." The first name, Anadara, is the genus, >denoting a group of fossils all members of which look something alike. Next comes >the species name, devincta, which differentiates the fossil from all others of >that genus. And last is the name of the paleontologist himself - in this >case, Conrad. After a description of the species has been published, the name is >adopted internationally. > The amateur fossil hunter will find that it is very difficult to >tell one species from another, but that it is fairly easy to identify the genus >of a well-preserved specimen by carefully comparing it to pictures and >descriptions in the literatvre. Fossils which are found in greatest abundance along >the Lincoln County beaches are the mollusks. Mollusks are a large family of >animols having protective shells, the most common types being pelecypods and >gastropods. These two important groups are easily differentiated: pelecypods have >two shells and resemble clams: gastropods have one coiled shell and resemble >snails, At least 60 species of fossil mollusks (pelecypods and gastropods in >approximately equal numbers) have been found in the Astoria Formation in Lincoln >County and more than half that number in the Yaquina Formation. All of these >species have been described and most of them illustrated in the literature (see >bibliography). > The names listed below represent only a few of the many species of >pelecypods and gastropods characteristic of the Astoria and Yaquina Formations. >Some of these fossils are shown in the accompanying sketches. >Astoria Formation > >Yaquina Formation > >Gastropods: >Bruclarkia oregonensis (Conrad) Ficvs modestvs Conrad Natica oregonensis >(Conrad) Turritella oregonensis Conrad >Bruclarkia columbiana (Anderson and Martin) Fusi nus I i ncol ne nsi s > Weaver Calyptraea mammillaris Broderip > For many years fossil hunters, both amateur and professional, have >been finding fossil bones of marine mammals in the outcrops of the Astoria >Formation along the Lincoln County beaches, Most of the bones have been identified >as belonging to pinnipeds (seals and walruses), cetaceans (whales), and >sirenians (sea cows). The majority of the finds have been separate parts of >skeletons, such as skulls, jaw bones, and vertebrae. More rarely is an entire >skeleton discovered. The best preserved specimens are generally found in the hard >sandstone concretions. Among the mammals identified from the Astoria Formation >are the following: >Sirenians (sea cows) Desmostylus Hannibal Desmostylus Marsh >(extinct species) >Pinnipeds (seals and walruses) Desmatophoca oregonensis Condon >Cetaceans (whales) Cophocetus oregonensis Packard and Kelrogg > Remains of other vertebrate dwellers in the Miocene sea, which have >been found in the Astoria Formation, include a very large turtle skull, fish >vertebrae, and shark teeth. > > Bibliography > >Cushman, J. A., Stewart, R. E., and Stewart, K. C., 1947, Astoria Miocene >foraminifera > from Agate Beach, Lincoln County, Oregon: Oreg. Dept. Geol. and Mineral >Indust. Bull > 36, part 2. >Daugherty, Lloyd F., 1951, The mollusco and foraminifera of Depoe Bay, >Oregon: Oreg. > Univ. Master's Thesis. >Herron, John E., 1953, Stratigraphy of the Miocene Agate Beach Formation in >Lincoln > County, Oregon: Oregon State Cell. Master's Thesis >Moore, Ellen I., 1963, Miocene mollusks from the Astoria Formation in Oregon: >U.S. Geol. > Survey Prof. Paper 419. >Moore, Ellen I., 1971, Fossil mollusks of coastal Oregon (Newport >area):Oregon State > Univ. Press, Studies in Geology No. 10. >Packard, Earl L., 1940, A new turtle from the marine Miocene of Oregon: Oreg. >State > Cell. Mon., Studies in Geol. No. 2. >Packard, Earl L., 1947, A pinniped humerus from the Astoria Miocene of >Oregon: Oreg. > State Cell. Mon., Studies in Geol. No. 7. >Packard, Earl L., and Kellogg, Remjngton, 1934, A new Cetothere from the >Miocene > Astoria Formation of Newport, Oregon: Carnegie Inst. Washington Pub. >447. >Schenck, Hubert G., 1936, Nuculid bivalves of the genus Acila: Geol. Soc. Am. >Spec. > Paper 4. >Snavely, P. D., Jr., and Vokes, H. E., 1949, The coastal area between Cape >Kiwanda and > Cape Foulweather, Oregon: U.S. Geol. Survey Oil and Gas Invest. Map 97, >with text. Snavely, P. D., Jr., and MacLeod, N. S., 1969, Geology of the >Newport area, Oregon, Parts > 1 and 2: Ore Bin, v. 31, no. 2 and 3. >Vokes, H. E., Norbisrath, Hans, and Snavely, P. D., Jr., 1949, Geology of the >Newport- > Waldport area, Lincoln County, Oregon: U.S. Geol. Survey Map OM 88. >Weaver. Charles E.. 1937 Tertiary stratigraphy of western Washington and >north- > western Oregon: Wash. Univ. Publ. in Geol., vol. 4. >Weaver, Charles E., 1942. Paleontology of the marine Tertiary formations of >Oregon and > Washington, Wash. Univ. Publ. in Geol., vol. 5. > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From WTompkcccc at aol.com Sat Dec 4 13:47:58 2004 From: WTompkcccc at aol.com (WTompkcccc@aol.com) Date: Sat Dec 4 13:48:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pyrite oxydation Message-ID: <25.53e67ab1.2ee38a8e@aol.com> In a message dated 12/4/04 1:42:44 PM, lanny@lrream.com writes: << I wanted to get back to Otter Rock and get a couple of the coarse pyrite clusters to try to preserve them for my collection, now there are more reasons to spend more time and take a longer look at those outcrops. >> Lanny- Or you could save a couple hours drive and come get some out of my garage. :) See ya next micro meeting at the Rice Museum. Bill From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Dec 4 20:39:37 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Dec 4 20:38:42 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Lack of Counterspace References: <9d.543e5c2e.2ee36140@aol.com> Message-ID: <41B290CF.3814@Tomaszewski.net> TomE61@aol.com wrote: > > I enjoyed reading all of the postings about "lack of counterspace" and can > certainly appreciate all that we go through to house our treasures. > Look forward to hearing more stories (or suggestions) about this. > > Happy holidays, > Tom Russell Hi Tom, Doorways with doors are often positioned so that when the door is open, it is up against a wall. The doorknob (or doorstop) causes two to four inches deep of wall space to be hidden behind the door when it is open. This is a commonly overlooked space for a display shelf, especially if the door is normally open. A typical door leaves a 24 X 48 X 3 inch space above the doorknob for a hanging wall shelf. I have several displays that you have to 'close the door' to see. One (long) wall of my basement bathroom (above the towel bar) has a 3 inch deep shelf unit covering the wall to the ceiling. Three of the four walls in my (basement) laundry room have rock cabinets from four feet to ceiling (leaving room for appliances, including sink and freezer -- the other wall has the window). If you build/buy your bookcases just a little deep, you can line up a row of specimens in front of the books. Leave at least one blank specimen space per bookcase/shelf so you can easily move specimens around to pull out books. When collecting rocks and minerals, please remember that any nearly horizontal surface IS display space. Kreigh From pchil at botsnet.bw Sat Dec 4 21:41:37 2004 From: pchil at botsnet.bw (P.C. Hulley) Date: Sat Dec 4 22:02:36 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} References: Message-ID: <00f101c4da93$30ddb3a0$e248a7a8@hulley> Axel, I sympathise! But this is why I think that anyone who intentionally and voluntarily turns over rock after rock......, knowing full well that there may be any number of bighting, stinging, creepy nasties lurking underneath, like spiders, scorpions, snakes COCKROACHES, can definitely NOT be referred to as 'faint hearted'. Cockroaches are my personal phobia, having spent some time on a deep sea commercial fishing boat in my pre-teens, before the advent of long-term pesticides, in place where these prehistoric monsters reach the size of rats [slight exaggeration] and are affectionately referred to by the locals as the "Natal [province in South Africa] Toughies! Someone who has a severe fear of heights and is still prepared to crawl up scree slopes to find the source of "that piece of prehnite", or walk miles along a narrow path hundreds of feet up a sheer cliff on a mountain side, cannot be called faint hearted! Someone who hikes 2 to 3 miles down a hillside in humiditure around 45oC to collect amethyst geodes, knowing full well that whatever is found, will have to be carried, personally, all the way back up again, cannot be called faint hearted! I am sure amongst a fraternity as large and experienced in the art of acquiring rock and mineral specimens, as this, there must be many, MANY more reasons! Hildagarde ----- Original Message ----- From: Axel Emmermann To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 6:07 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re:unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} > Once bitten, twice shy... > I've been bitten twice by a spider. Both very painful, colorful and swollen > body parts... > In both cases it was just an ordinary black spider with hairy legs and a > body of about 1.5 cm like you often find in cellars or cracks in the wall > around here. > Normally they cannot pierce the human skin but if you help them while > slapping them on the head while they are already trying to bite you..... > (one was in my bed, I leaned on it with my fist and it bit me between two > fingers. The other one crawled up my leg inside my trousers and I > accidentally squashed it against the inside of my thigh). > Anyway, it hurts. Not at once but after an hour or so...when the swelling > begins. > > Is a banana spider one of those icky crawly tennis ball-sized monsters... > Like those you put your foot on and then say "take me to the supermarket"? > > Cheers > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jeanette Wimpee > Verzonden: vrijdag 3 december 2004 3:25 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: > unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} > > > ROTFL! > Wonder what it is about itty bitty spiders that can send such big guys off > like a rocket? My son-in-law has the same reaction. It NEVER bothers me to > SEE a spider, especially when I've invaded HER domain and she runs out to > protest the intrusion. It's the ones I don't see, like when I back into the > big web of our resident banana spiders in the yard, and then can't find the > resident spider. A superfast check of hair and clothes ensues.....sometimes > a little hopping around and slapping of the neck....a little dance of the > heebie jeebies.....who says I'm scared of spiders?? > Jeanette > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Axel Emmermann" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 4:16 AM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealistic > faintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} > > > > Nothing wrong with fainthearted Hildagarde... > > I'm perectly capable of staring down anything ranging from a mouse to a > > Flemish Giant (a giant rabbit hat can weigh up to 12 pounds)... still, > > anything alive (regardless of size) that has more than 4 legs and 2 eyes > > triggers a Pavlovian fleeing reflex in my brain. > > > > I once was hacking away at an innocent Austrian boulder in an Austrian > > meadow, when I noticed that a rather big (at LEAST 5 mm!) spider was > > crawling up on my leg. The boulder had some strongly fluorescent calcite > > layers in it, so I wanted it bad. > > I broke two world records that day: the world record pole vaulting was > > crushed. I did it without the running and without the pole but still... an > > 18 ft jump from a crouching position isn't bad. After that, I ran 100 > yards > > without even touching the grass in just under two milliseconds. It took my > > wife's breath away... the laughter, I mean. > > > > Cheers > > > > axel > > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens P.C. Hulley > > Verzonden: donderdag 2 december 2004 11:02 > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealistic fainthearted > > pebble-pickingamateur{was: British Columbia} > > > > > > Take out the "faint hearted" and yes, that would include me as well! > > > > Hildagarde Hulley > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 2:05 AM > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealistic fainthearted pebble-picking > > amateur{was: British Columbia} > > > > > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello list > > > > > > > > a friend of mine is going on vacation in British Columbia this summer. > > > > He's a seasoned professional mineralogist with lots of > experience...not > > > > just another unrealistic fainthearted pebble-picking amateur > > > > > > Axel, > > > > > > I think you demean this list. Most of us have moved our unrealistic > > > dreams well beyond fainthearted pebbles to large boulders (or even to > > > hard rock). We may have once been pebble pups, but now we are incurable > > > Rockhounds. > > > > > > Kreigh > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pchil at botsnet.bw Sat Dec 4 22:03:13 2004 From: pchil at botsnet.bw (P.C. Hulley) Date: Sat Dec 4 22:02:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was:British Columbia} References: <41B094B3.6030209@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <00f301c4da93$33186160$e248a7a8@hulley> > >Is a banana spider one of those icky crawly tennis ball-sized monsters... > > Like those you put your foot on and then say "take me to the > supermarket"? > Took a drive through our game park the other evening, (Yes we have our own game park there is a gate about 500m from mine) and saw what at first appeared to me a small rodent in the road. On closer inspection, it turned out to be a "Baboon spider", which would definite fit into that category! Looks very much like a tarantula, but harmless. ( So they say.... I am still suspicious!) Hildagarde From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Sun Dec 5 07:19:49 2004 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Sun Dec 5 07:19:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: British... Message-ID: <1ed.305083eb.2ee48115@aol.com> Years ago I went collecting at the St Calir, PA fossil site. In those days our club had connections to a director of the mine and they unlocked the gate for us on collecting day. We drove to the site and loaded our car trunks to the limit of the springs.... well at least some of us did, myself included. Fortunately this material is really dirty, with black shale and carbon on it so it is not the sort of material to take directly in the house. Instead I left it piled in the back yard and spent the next few weeks cleaning, sorting and trimming material for the collection and give aways. One of the large slabs had one side covered with many ferns but it was quite thick and had numerous cracks in the edge indicating additional bedding planes. I was in the process of splitting this treasure box, when I noticed what at first appeared to be a wood boring beetle. On closer inspection it turned out to be a wood roach.... smaller cousin of the Cockroach. The piece turned out to have several dozen wood roaches in it. None of the other slabs appeared to have any roaches in them and a little shaking and washing and ... no more roaches. If I had brought these fellows into the house my wife would have had a fit. Not that roaches bother me too much.. 'Cept when we lived in Puerto Rico. Our cat at the time would play with his little toys and at bed time he would kill one of his little toy mice and bring it on the bed as a peace offering, his passport to some attention and a place on the bed with my wife and me. One night, after the lights were out he brought us his toy... and I thought.."that's odd, didn't he bring a toy just 20 minutes ago?" I turned on the lights to discover a still live but disabled Puerto Rico cockroach (about 3 inches long) on my chest. BTW Puerto Rico has some nice fossils which get exposed from time to time when they build something else. I have a nice, but small, C. megalodon tooth from there as well as numerous other Miocene/Oligocene marine vertebrate fossils. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE In a message dated 12/5/2004 1:04:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, pchil@botsnet.bw writes: Cockroaches are my personal phobia, having spent some time on a deep sea commercial fishing boat in my pre-teens, before the advent of long-term pesticides, in place where these prehistoric monsters reach the size of rats [slight exaggeration] and are affectionately referred to by the locals as the "Natal [province in South Africa] Toughies! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny at lrream.com Sun Dec 5 09:29:59 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sun Dec 5 09:28:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pyrite oxydation In-Reply-To: <25.53e67ab1.2ee38a8e@aol.com> References: <25.53e67ab1.2ee38a8e@aol.com> Message-ID: <49DBEDF3-46E3-11D9-87AE-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi Bill, Your garage is probably fun, but not nearly as much fun as the Oregon coast! It's a lot more fun to collect your own with the surf crashing on the rock near you! The next micro meeting is to close to the Alaska adventure, probably won't make it. Maybe the next one wrapped around a few days of vacation at Cannon Beach with a trip to Otter Rock. Lanny On Dec 4, 2004, at 1:47 PM, WTompkcccc@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 12/4/04 1:42:44 PM, lanny@lrream.com writes: > > << I wanted to get back to Otter Rock and get a couple of the coarse > pyrite clusters to try to preserve them for my collection, now there > are more reasons to spend more time and take a longer look at those > outcrops. >> > > Lanny- > > Or you could save a couple hours drive and come get some out of my > garage. > :) > See ya next micro meeting at the Rice Museum. > > Bill > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From lanny at lrream.com Sun Dec 5 09:41:08 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sun Dec 5 09:39:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: Briti... In-Reply-To: <20041204174144.371F9CBA1AF@delivery.infowest.com> References: <20041204174144.371F9CBA1AF@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: Hi Margaret, The Tarantulas in Utah are mostly harmless, but don't make one feel threatened, such as leaning against it field while collecting where it might think you are trying to squash it. Supposedly the bite is no worse than the average spider bite, which is of course often a real nuisance. However, I always liked them. They are big enough that they don't usually sneak up on me like the smaller spiders do (doing such things as clinging to the underside of the rock you just picked up where, as this thread started, you through the specimen a hundred yards and jump nearly as far). One more thing about them, if you pet one you will find that the hair on them is really quite soft. Regards, Lanny On Dec 4, 2004, at 9:41 AM, Margaret Malm wrote: > Your Wolf Spiders are miniatures, compared to the ones we have here in > Utah. > > I woke up one morning in my dormitory room in Zion, and there was one > calmly > clinging to the ceiling right above me. About 6-8 inches in diameter > (legs > included). About tarantula size. Only my prior knowledge that they are > not > only harmless (to us), but also quite beneficial creatures saved me > from > --ummm -- "getting a bit upset!". > > Margaret From kahako at aloha.net Sun Dec 5 11:01:00 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Dec 5 10:31:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Spiders (was unrealistic...). In-Reply-To: References: <20041204174144.371F9CBA1AF@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041205085646.02583520@mail.aloha.net> At 07:41 AM 12/5/2004, you wrote: >Hi Margaret, >The Tarantulas in Utah are mostly harmless, if you pet one you >will find that the hair on them is really quite soft. >Regards, >Lanny ...pet one? PET ONE??? Arghhhh!!!! K. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.5 - Release Date: 12/3/2004 From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Dec 5 10:49:11 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Dec 5 10:49:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: Briti... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: PET ONE???? Bweuahhhhhhh THUMP.... (sound of me hitting floor unconscious...) Uh? What happened... where am I??? Oh yes... What??? PET ONE??? (Bweuahhhhhhh THUMP....) Uh? What happened... where am I??? Oh yes... What??? PET ONE??? (Bweuahhhhhhh THUMP....) Uh? What happened... where am I??? Oh yes... What??? PET ONE??? (Bweuahhhhhhh THUMP....) Uh? What happened... where am I??? Oh yes... What??? PET ONE??? (Bweuahhhhhhh THUMP....) Uh? What happened... where am I??? Oh yes... What??? PET ONE??? (Bweuahhhhhhh THUMP....) etc.......etc....... The correct term for the above is "recursive fainting", I think. I'll pet one all right! With an anvil smack on the head... uh... thingy with the legs attached to it. Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Lanny Verzonden: zondag 5 december 2004 18:41 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Re:unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: Briti... Hi Margaret, The Tarantulas in Utah are mostly harmless, but don't make one feel threatened, such as leaning against it field while collecting where it might think you are trying to squash it. Supposedly the bite is no worse than the average spider bite, which is of course often a real nuisance. However, I always liked them. They are big enough that they don't usually sneak up on me like the smaller spiders do (doing such things as clinging to the underside of the rock you just picked up where, as this thread started, you through the specimen a hundred yards and jump nearly as far). One more thing about them, if you pet one you will find that the hair on them is really quite soft. Regards, Lanny On Dec 4, 2004, at 9:41 AM, Margaret Malm wrote: > Your Wolf Spiders are miniatures, compared to the ones we have here in > Utah. > > I woke up one morning in my dormitory room in Zion, and there was one > calmly > clinging to the ceiling right above me. About 6-8 inches in diameter > (legs > included). About tarantula size. Only my prior knowledge that they are > not > only harmless (to us), but also quite beneficial creatures saved me > from > --ummm -- "getting a bit upset!". > > Margaret _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Dec 5 11:02:44 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Dec 5 11:02:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Spiders (was unrealistic...). In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20041205085646.02583520@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: >...pet one? PET ONE??? Arghhhh!!!! Kitty... I have goose bumps the size of Delaware! Maybe we could organize an experiment: let hit those soft haired monsters over the head with a taser! A few thousand volts and I'll bet they 'll be wiggling around with a Shaft-hairdo... Very retro indeed! Cheers Axel From kadok at infowest.com Sun Dec 5 12:16:33 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sun Dec 5 12:16:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: Briti... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041205201628.E10C9CB9E69@delivery.infowest.com> Hi, Lanny -- Yes, I have always understood that Tarantula bites were not all that bad. (Grew up with them in Oklahoma -- and Black Widows also.) Also, I hear that they have really poor vision, so you don't have to worry about them deliberately "atttacking" you. I don't really remember seeing on in Utah, although that is quite possible. And, as I said, Wolf Spiders are quite harmless. Quite interesting, really! Margaret >Hi Margaret, >The Tarantulas in Utah are mostly harmless, but don't make one feel threatened, such as leaning against it field while collecting where it might think you are trying to squash it. Supposedly the bite is no worse than the average spider bite, which is of course often a real nuisance. >However, I always liked them. They are big enough that they don't usually sneak up on me like the smaller spiders do (doing such things as clinging to the underside of the rock you just picked up where, as this thread started, you through the specimen a hundred yards and jump nearly as far). One more thing about them, if you pet one you will find that the hair on them is really quite soft. Regards, Lanny On Dec 4, 2004, at 9:41 AM, Margaret Malm wrote: > Your Wolf Spiders are miniatures, compared to the ones we have here in > Utah. > > I woke up one morning in my dormitory room in Zion, and there was one > calmly > clinging to the ceiling right above me. About 6-8 inches in diameter > (legs > included). About tarantula size. Only my prior knowledge that they are > not > only harmless (to us), but also quite beneficial creatures saved me > from > --ummm -- "getting a bit upset!". > > Margaret _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kadok at infowest.com Sun Dec 5 12:19:16 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sun Dec 5 12:19:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Spiders (was unrealistic...). In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20041205085646.02583520@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <20041205201911.34B5DCB9DD0@delivery.infowest.com> Hi, K. Pet one? Sure! Why not? They may look scary, but they are so blind that if you come up from behind and pet it gently it probably won't even notice. And they re very slow-moving, too; you could be long gone before it could turn on you. Margaret At 07:41 AM 12/5/2004, you wrote: >Hi Margaret, >The Tarantulas in Utah are mostly harmless, if you pet one you >will find that the hair on them is really quite soft. >Regards, >Lanny ...pet one? PET ONE??? Arghhhh!!!! K. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.5 - Release Date: 12/3/2004 _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kadok at infowest.com Sun Dec 5 12:22:02 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sun Dec 5 12:21:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was:Briti... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041205202157.570DBCB9DD0@delivery.infowest.com> But, Axel -- where's your compassion? [:>}} Why would you want to kill it? It's just trying to go about its business. Probably can't even see you. Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 11:49 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re:unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was:Briti... PET ONE???? Bweuahhhhhhh THUMP.... (sound of me hitting floor unconscious...) Uh? What happened... where am I??? Oh yes... What??? PET ONE??? (Bweuahhhhhhh THUMP....) Uh? What happened... where am I??? Oh yes... What??? PET ONE??? (Bweuahhhhhhh THUMP....) Uh? What happened... where am I??? Oh yes... What??? PET ONE??? (Bweuahhhhhhh THUMP....) Uh? What happened... where am I??? Oh yes... What??? PET ONE??? (Bweuahhhhhhh THUMP....) Uh? What happened... where am I??? Oh yes... What??? PET ONE??? (Bweuahhhhhhh THUMP....) etc.......etc....... The correct term for the above is "recursive fainting", I think. I'll pet one all right! With an anvil smack on the head... uh... thingy with the legs attached to it. Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Lanny Verzonden: zondag 5 december 2004 18:41 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Re:unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: Briti... Hi Margaret, The Tarantulas in Utah are mostly harmless, but don't make one feel threatened, such as leaning against it field while collecting where it might think you are trying to squash it. Supposedly the bite is no worse than the average spider bite, which is of course often a real nuisance. However, I always liked them. They are big enough that they don't usually sneak up on me like the smaller spiders do (doing such things as clinging to the underside of the rock you just picked up where, as this thread started, you through the specimen a hundred yards and jump nearly as far). One more thing about them, if you pet one you will find that the hair on them is really quite soft. Regards, Lanny On Dec 4, 2004, at 9:41 AM, Margaret Malm wrote: > Your Wolf Spiders are miniatures, compared to the ones we have here in > Utah. > > I woke up one morning in my dormitory room in Zion, and there was one > calmly > clinging to the ceiling right above me. About 6-8 inches in diameter > (legs > included). About tarantula size. Only my prior knowledge that they are > not > only harmless (to us), but also quite beneficial creatures saved me > from > --ummm -- "getting a bit upset!". > > Margaret _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From lanny at lrream.com Sun Dec 5 16:48:16 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sun Dec 5 16:47:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Spiders (was unrealistic...). In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <84132B61-4720-11D9-87AE-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> OK Axel and Kitty, I was sure that petting thing would get your blood flowing. I don't like spiders sneaking up on me or surprising me, and some do look down right nasty. Here in northern Idaho we have what is called: the aggressive house spider, don't recall the more proper common name. It's big for spiders in this region, up to about 1 1/2 inches across the legs. It's bite is rather nasty, takes a long time to heal and might cause a lot of discoloration, pain and just down right not fun to have. It does appear to be rather aggressive, one time I slid a box out of the way and there were three of them under it, two of them ran at me, even as I stomped the first one. As it turns out, they aren't actually aggressive, they have poor sight and poor hearing and often go towards motion or sound to find out what's going on. Good run under by shoe! Like most spiders, they only bite humans when they feel threatened, especially when pressed between you and your bed, chair, clothing, etc. So bites are uncommon. Spiders aren't supposed to sneak up me or surprise me. They have been warned, they can die quickly by doing that. It's that surprise when picking up a rock, look at it, turn it over, and something moves, something with 8 legs (or crawls onto my hand!). In that case the rock flies, I fly. I even chose that problem as the title for the draft (and probably the final) of my collecting journals: "There's a Spider Under Every Rock." On the other hand, tarantulas are big and fuzzy. They are too big, slow moving and non-aggressive to be scary (although if I unexpectedly find one on the bottomside of a rock I just picked up, that thought could change in an instant). Utah has them all over the west half, and probably most of the state, except the high mountains. If you collect at the Thomas Range/Topaz Mountain, you have a good chance of seeing one hiking across country. "Good chance" may not be quite correct, they aren't numerous, and I've been to the Thomas Range a dozen times or so and have seen only one there (also 2 scorpions and 3 rattlesnakes). Although what scared me the most out there was the idiot in Topaz Valley shooting a hand gun on Easter 1977(?) with about 40 cars and campers in the valley. Regards, Lanny On Dec 5, 2004, at 11:02 AM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > >> ...pet one? PET ONE??? Arghhhh!!!! > > Kitty... I have goose bumps the size of Delaware! > Maybe we could organize an experiment: let hit those soft haired > monsters > over the head with a taser! > A few thousand volts and I'll bet they 'll be wiggling around with a > Shaft-hairdo... Very retro indeed! > > Cheers > > Axel > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From mosasaur47 at msn.com Sun Dec 5 18:58:18 2004 From: mosasaur47 at msn.com (Kenneth Quinn) Date: Sun Dec 5 16:59:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] tarantulas References: <84132B61-4720-11D9-87AE-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: I realize we are getting somewhat off topic (with Aaron in Sweden we can get by with it, maybe!) but had to add this tidbit: tarantula hair is the active ingredient in itching powder. It is a defense that the spider has against predators: it shakes the hair loose, and the pursuer's nasal passages instantly become inflamed! I have seen film of South American Indians roasting and eating tarantula - how repulsive, I think, as I munch on a crab. Kenneth Quinn From Ted at crystalgems.com Sun Dec 5 18:02:17 2004 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted) Date: Sun Dec 5 18:02:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Spiders (was unrealistic...). In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20041205085646.02583520@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <001c01c4db37$a04f91f0$0200a8c0@gametime> All: By all means; pet a tarantula. Just don't ever blow on one. They have hair sensors, including one which warns of a sudden blast of air that might be produced by a descending bird. The tarantula response to air blown on them is usually defensive (from the tarantula's perspective) but may appear aggressive to you. (For some tarantula's, they expect a bird lunch when they feel air blown at them) I am somewhat spider phobic in that I dislike their webs all over my face and I occasionally dance around kinda wild-like when I realize there is a large spider on my body. Here in Virginia, I walk through the woods waving my walking stick in front of me to collect all of the webs. Most of these webs are unoccupied, as we have a spider called the orb weaver, (ugly spider, beautiful webs) that spins beautiful webs. A new web every night in a different location... Surprisingly, I am not at all bothered by their close relatives, scorpions. I also spent a stint living in New Orleans where I learned that palmetto bugs are another name for huge flying cockroaches. I quickly learned that roaches are natives their and to suck the heads of boiled crawfish. In amusement; Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA. USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill Heacox Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:01 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Spiders (was unrealistic...). At 07:41 AM 12/5/2004, you wrote: >Hi Margaret, >The Tarantulas in Utah are mostly harmless, if you pet one you >will find that the hair on them is really quite soft. >Regards, >Lanny ...pet one? PET ONE??? Arghhhh!!!! K. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.5 - Release Date: 12/3/2004 _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From geenet2 at mchsi.com Sun Dec 5 18:09:57 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Sun Dec 5 18:09:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] One of the "pets" References: Message-ID: <003f01c4db38$af637980$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> They are pretty for a spider..... The solid yellow ones are the prettiest, but I don't have a picture of one of them. That's our X-pool. It had a slow leak in it, therefore the pool cover would sink down into the pool. We had a big rain storm with INCHES of rain (don't remember how many....) and the rain on top of the cover pulled in the sides. So....we no longer have a pretty blue pool. The kids are all gone, and the grandkids don't come over enough to justify getting it fixed. The only one around here who wants a pool is Glenn, which is weird because he was the one who had to clean it out and keep the water "right" complaining because he WAS the only one doing it.... MTBBBBSG......hmmm.....I guess it would depend on the time of year, and where you were actually standing.....Downtown Mobile??? maybe a mosquito down by the river at night. They spray for mosquitos so they aren't really a problem in metro Mobile. Out in the suburbs tho, come dusk they come out ready for blood. They hover around me but one a few actually bite, they prefer Glenn. If there's a mosquito within 100 yards of him they will zero in and attack. Now if you don't actually stick your arms into all the bushes you come too(sooner of later you would run into a wasp), don't stand in the middle of an antbed(duh), don't swim in the Gulf in August or September (jellyfish season) don't stand around after dark (mosquitos), you won't get bit. These are all minor pests, nothing I'd call ghastly. Now, if you want to go up in the Delta, jump out of the boat for a swim, you will definitely be a snack for a ghastly alligator. It's not like they are EVERYWHERE, you have to go into their territory which is the bayous, swamps and rivers around here. But there are plenty of those around if you want to see one. Umm....I forgot the snakes.....around the water, we do have cottonmouth moccasins, but I personally haven't seen one since we lived in Florida 18 years ago. Another menace you have to really look for to find. We don't go rockhounding in deep woods during the summer, too likely to run across a snake or get carried off by mosquitos. Most of the snakes you might see around here, are non-poisonous. Don't they have things in Belgium that bite, sting or otherwise bug you?? Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 10:47 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] One of the "pets" > Pretty animal, Jeanette! > Is the blue in the background your pool? Are there any alligators in it? > If a tourist comes to Alabama, what is his MTBBBBSG? (mean time before being > bitten by something ghastly) > > ROFL > > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jeanette Wimpee > Verzonden: zaterdag 4 december 2004 1:43 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] One of the "pets" > > > Here's a link to a picture we took of one of the local spiders. Just a > little one. > > http://home.mchsi.com/~geenet2/spider.html > > Jeanette > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > application/octet-stream > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From slb at headofthetide.com Sun Dec 5 18:14:07 2004 From: slb at headofthetide.com (Sally Baldwin) Date: Sun Dec 5 18:14:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: References: <84132B61-4720-11D9-87AE-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20041205210228.01f400d0@mail.adelphia.net> Hi, friends, you all intimidate me with your great vaults of rocks, not to mention laundry rooms and bathrooms, and I imagine they are all properly catalogued, too. Well, mostly. Since I'm at the beginning I'd like to tackle doing a proper database thingie before things get out of hand. I searched the archives, but only found info from several years back, at which time folks were wondering if something new had come along. And since that was close to five years back, I thought I'd ask. I've seen a few propietary programs listed, on the internet, and I wonder if you have any recommendations. That is, if you were starting all over now, is there one you'd use? I'd like something that would also make labels, of course... including ones for micromounts. Hope I'm not asking for too much. The discussion on spiders reminds me that many years ago in the hazy, strange days that were the 'sixties, a friend of mine had given me a Herk positioned in a little vug (are they still vugs when they are that small?) and I had my trusty 10x loupe out examining it. I am lost in admiration of the herk, which of course looked gigantic up close, when I turned the stone a bit and a grub of some sort, long dead, dropped into my field of view. It looked as big as Godzilla, at 10x, and I screeched and dropped everything in my lap, and then felt so damned foolish -- but it was pretty funny... Best, Sally Never lose altitude unnecessarily. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From geenet2 at mchsi.com Sun Dec 5 18:42:04 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Sun Dec 5 18:42:06 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur spider avoiders References: <41B094B3.6030209@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <00bf01c4db3d$2c231080$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> We get these cute little spiders here called "crab spiders" because they have a colorful shell shaped body that looks exactly like a crab. I use to play with them as a kid, and now can really gross my grandkids out by handing one to them. The only time I ever got slightly bitten was when one almost fell out of the hand and it had to clamp down on my hand to keep from falling off. Evidently there aren't as quick as Spiderman at web slinging. Jeanette > >Is a banana spider one of those icky crawly tennis ball-sized monsters... > > Like those you put your foot on and then say "take me to the > supermarket"? > > LOL I know Belgium has many problems with illegal hormones administered > to their livestock, but this is new to me. :-)) > > Taking the size of our Axel in account I think the poor creatures are > better off walking to the vet. > > But with all fears you have to confront yourself. Last summer while > working in the garden I took some time to observe some (for our > standards) big spiders. They are quite interesting. After a few times I > stopped shivering and got a really good view of them. After a few more > times I did not mind when they walked over my hands. I was surpised how > fast this confrontation method works. It is not that I pick them up or > so, but at least I'm not scared of them anymore. My ultimate goal is to > look at one under the microscope. That is the final exam. Either I will > be scared of them like never before or I will start collecting them :-))) > > cheers, > Maurice > From geenet2 at mchsi.com Sun Dec 5 18:46:48 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Sun Dec 5 18:46:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was: Briti... References: <20041204174144.371F9CBA1AF@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: <00c701c4db3d$d5085e80$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Yeah, snakes and spiders have gotten bad PR, they help keep other noxious insects at bay. But like I said I like them where I can see them and control them, not feel them crawling up my leg, or getting tangled in a web, and not know if one is in my hair....or not....if it is, it's likely to die, beneficial or not. Jeanette Only my prior knowledge that they are not > only harmless (to us), but also quite beneficial creatures saved me from > --ummm -- "getting a bit upset!". > > Margaret From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Sun Dec 5 18:58:48 2004 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sun Dec 5 19:01:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-picking .. References: <002f01c4da12$027c8d00$a5770bd0@wcc.net> Message-ID: <004701c4db3f$831db000$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> I thought all spiders were poisonous. It's just that most won't bite unless they feel threatened or think you are their favorite food. And some have fangs so small or so positioned that they can't bite a human even if they want. Glenn ----- From: "Marcia & Leroy Ingham" Re:unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was:Briti... > And the spiders do jump but they're not poisonous. I've seen them be so > plentiful that they crawl up the sides of the houses & almost impossible to > walk without stepping on them! Apparently they migrate at a certain time of > year because they're all "on the move" at the same time & everywhere! > Some type of non-poisonous tarantula but will scare you to death!! > > Marcia Ingham > > From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Sun Dec 5 19:07:49 2004 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sun Dec 5 19:10:05 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Halite References: Message-ID: <004f01c4db40$c4bc9660$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> We have to add rice to our salt shakers or it will become a solid chunk from soaking up our sub-tropical Gulf Coast humidity. GlenninHOH (GLUB GLUB) LOL!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Halite > Spraying halite works if you do it thoroughly and all around. You most > likely either kill or add fluorescence, however, depending on what you use. > In my experience, acrylic spray blocks SW-UV. > > A good way to preserve halite is to soak it in a really saturated solution > of kitchen salt (NaCl). The only thing that happens is that all potassium > ions go into solution and are replaces by sodium. Pure sodium chloride isn't > hygroscopic. > Doesn't work for other evaporates like hanksite, glauberite... > > >>tinaintundra > > Axelintaiga ;-))) > From rockcurrier at cs.com Sun Dec 5 19:18:47 2004 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Sun Dec 5 19:18:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cockroaches, spiders, bats and snakes References: <200412060200.iB620ZLj030269@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <004b01c4db42$4dadd960$bcf3a5d8@rock5> Dear P.C. There is a small abandoned base metal mine not far south of Darwin in the Northern Territories of Australia. It is called Mt. Bonnie. I visited this mine about 30 years ago with my friend Demetrious Pohl looking for mimetite crystals. We didn't find much in the way of mimetite but we did find a lot of cockroaches. They were big suckers, in the one to two inch range. They were literally carpeting the walls of the mine in places. You couldn't put your hand on the wall without crushing them and when you were quiet, the noise they made was like putting your ear to a seashell. Occasionally on the walls there on the walls were large spiders about the size of tarantulas that you could tell the cockroaches had a healthy respect for because there was always a small clean halo of wall space around them . I don't know what kind they were or if they were poisoness. Also a lot of big bats lived in the cave and when trying to fly past you in the narrow tunnels you could feel them brush your ears, but their echo location was pretty good because they never ran into us. We saw a wonderfully complete snake skeleton on the floor that Demetrous said had been picked clean overnight when they had killed it on a previous trip. We speculated that the cockroaches lived in part off of the bat droppings. You got used to the cockroaches running around on your body and over your helmet and light because if you didn't you couldn't get any collecting done. Why is it the follies of youth are preferable to the successes of old age? Rock Currier From rockcurrier at cs.com Sun Dec 5 19:35:05 2004 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Sun Dec 5 19:34:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A tarantula story References: <200412060200.iB620ZLj030269@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <004f01c4db44$987303b0$bcf3a5d8@rock5> Once long long ago in a galexy far far away....I was auditing a course in optical mineralogy at Cal State LA. I had talked the much too permissive department chairman to allow me to do this even though I was not a regular student there and even got the professor who taught the class to go along witth the deal. Most of the students were geology majors and were taking a full load of geology courses includng some with field trips. One of the guys went by the name of Cutworth and he sat close to me in class and I would hear all about the field trips etc and the other gossip going around in the department. One morning Cutworth was late and when he came in all the kids started growning and making rude noises like, "Oh Jesus Christ, here comes Cutworth". It turned out that on the most recent field trip when they were camping out that they had caught a tarantula and after suitable lubrication of an alcaholic nature one of the guys bet Cutworth he couldn't eat the tarantula. He finally agreed to eat the tarantula if they could get up enough money between them. The ammount they finally got up was about $50 but they wouldn't get the money if he spit it up or threw up. They said he looked at it a long time before he did it and won the $50 dollars. They even had photos of the deed, one of them showing little hairy legs sticking out of his mouth. Even not being there I started to feel a little woozy. Rock From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Sun Dec 5 19:41:42 2004 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sun Dec 5 19:43:54 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Spiders References: <20041204174144.371F9CBA1AF@delivery.infowest.com> <6.1.2.0.0.20041205085646.02583520@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <009c01c4db45$80921460$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> Lots of strange people keep tarantulas as pets and handle them often. Many pet stores sell them... Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Spiders (was unrealistic...). > At 07:41 AM 12/5/2004, you wrote: > >Hi Margaret, > >The Tarantulas in Utah are mostly harmless, if you pet one you > >will find that the hair on them is really quite soft. > >Regards, > >Lanny > > ...pet one? PET ONE??? Arghhhh!!!! > > K. > From morningstar at att.net Sun Dec 5 19:51:27 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Sun Dec 5 19:50:54 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20041205210228.01f400d0@mail.adelphia.net> References: <84132B61-4720-11D9-87AE-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.0.3.0.2.20041205210228.01f400d0@mail.adelphia.net> Message-ID: <41B3D73F.7010103@att.net> Sally Baldwin wrote: > Since I'm at the beginning I'd like to tackle doing a proper database > thingie before things get out of hand. Hi, I thought about a nice, long, detailed answer to your question; then I thought again, and decided to ask, "What EXACTLY do you want it to do?" There are some simple programs out there that will accept the minimal information, like specimen, locality, and date acquired, and not much else. This is great for some people. On the other hand, I co-designed a database with dozens of fields, more detailed than anything out there, and it has terrified some collectors while filling the needs of others. So again, it all depends on what you want to do, and how much detail you need to capture. Don From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Sun Dec 5 20:00:29 2004 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sun Dec 5 20:06:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? References: <84132B61-4720-11D9-87AE-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.0.3.0.2.20041205210228.01f400d0@mail.adelphia.net> <41B3D73F.7010103@att.net> Message-ID: <001501c4db48$b3069da0$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> I also need a real simple program or catalog. Thanks! Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don H" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > Sally Baldwin wrote: > > > Since I'm at the beginning I'd like to tackle doing a proper database > > thingie before things get out of hand. > > Hi, > > I thought about a nice, long, detailed answer to your question; then I > thought again, and decided to ask, "What EXACTLY do you want it to do?" > There are some simple programs out there that will accept the minimal > information, like specimen, locality, and date acquired, and not much > else. This is great for some people. On the other hand, I co-designed a > database with dozens of fields, more detailed than anything out there, > and it has terrified some collectors while filling the needs of others. > So again, it all depends on what you want to do, and how much detail > you need to capture. > > Don > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From hptdesigns at charter.net Sun Dec 5 20:24:20 2004 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Sun Dec 5 20:19:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20041205210228.01f400d0@mail.adelphia.net> Message-ID: <3khj62$iuksmr@mxip13a.cluster1.charter.net> Dear Sally, Don Halterman and I have developed a mineral database for a mineral museum and individual collectors(he pretty much designed the structure and fields and I did the coding and forms basic design). There are a few caveats to it that you should be aware of however. It was created as an Access application and as such it requires a full installation of MS Office 2003 and really needs to run under Windows XP. It integrates with Outlook, MS Word, Excel. It contains just about any field you might want and also the ability to add new ones. Since it is written under Access and all code is accessible, if you want to learn Access, you can add to it. Also all the built in query and report generators of Access are fully available. Since it is extremely doubtful that MS will ever discontinue Access and they will make sure that previous versions will not become outdated. It allows the attachment of any kind of document to the specimen (pictures, pdf files, word files, etc.) and also the ability to creat a library of pictures and documents that can be attached to one or more speciemns. It will also connect to different onling mineral databases and mapping programs with one click. Now with the new full text search engines such as the very good FREE one at http://www.copernic.com/, one can then search those docs instantaneously. It is also my plan to incorportate PaperPort into the database for scanning and and OCR and pdf conversion. Very good program for $100 by http://scansoft.com/paperport/. You can see some screenshots at http://www.hockyjocky.com/mineral_database.htm I have changed a few of them to add a few micromount specific fields such as mounted, when mounted , and mounter. Drop me a note offlist and will answer any other questions. Tommy Armstrong "Creativity is the marvelous capacity to grasp distinct realities and draw a spark from their juxtaposition." Max Ernst > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Sally Baldwin > Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 9:14 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > > Hi, friends, you all intimidate me with your great vaults of > rocks, not to mention laundry rooms and bathrooms, and I > imagine they are all properly catalogued, too. Well, mostly. > > Since I'm at the beginning I'd like to tackle doing a proper > database thingie before things get out of hand. I searched > the archives, but only found info from several years back, at > which time folks were wondering if something new had come > along. And since that was close to five years back, I > thought I'd ask. I've seen a few propietary programs listed, > on the internet, and I wonder if you have any > recommendations. That is, if you were starting all over now, > is there one you'd use? > > I'd like something that would also make labels, of course... > including ones for micromounts. Hope I'm not asking for too much. > > The discussion on spiders reminds me that many years ago in > the hazy, strange days that were the 'sixties, a friend of > mine had given me a Herk positioned in a little vug (are they > still vugs when they are that small?) and I had my trusty 10x > loupe out examining it. I am lost in admiration of the herk, > which of course looked gigantic up close, when I turned the > stone a bit and a grub of some sort, long dead, dropped into > my field of view. It looked as big as Godzilla, at 10x, and > I screeched and dropped everything in my lap, and then felt > so damned foolish -- but it was pretty funny... > > Best, > Sally > > Never lose altitude unnecessarily. > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From hptdesigns at charter.net Sun Dec 5 20:28:55 2004 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Sun Dec 5 20:24:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20041205210228.01f400d0@mail.adelphia.net> Message-ID: <3k70il$gssdsa@mxip20a.cluster1.charter.net> The program Don and I designed really should not really "terrify" anyone as there are really not required fields. And I taught my daughter how to use it in 30 minutes. But it does require Office Professional. Tommy From kahako at aloha.net Sun Dec 5 20:57:31 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Dec 5 20:27:49 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Halite (& humidity & counterspace) In-Reply-To: <004f01c4db40$c4bc9660$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> References: <004f01c4db40$c4bc9660$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041205174942.03c16eb0@mail.aloha.net> Here on the wet side of the Big Island we often have humidity at 70% (sometimes higher) and get over 200 inches of rain a year. Restaurants put rice in the salt shakers, but for home use that is insufficient. We get shaker jars with screw-on lids and keep the lids closed tightly between each use. Other things have to be put into zip-lock bags or tightly sealed canisters as soon as they are brought home from the (air-conditioned) store. I have twice made the mistake of leaving a specimen out on a sideboard in the living room for just a couple of hours---once with hanksite and once with halite---and found a puddle of liquid ruining the sideboard's wood finish. The halite recovered after being transferred to the one air-conditioned room in our house (the study, with books, the computer, and a rock display cabinet for specimens that require dry environment). After brushing it off, and the halite was fine. The hanksite still looks a little cloudy on the surface. The sideboard needs refinishing to remove the stains, but since it isn't a rock, that's not important. It IS still a horizontal surface, however, and at the moment it has trays of rocks that were recently brought in from the garage...(sound of cartoon music, Docia). Aloha, Kitty At 05:07 PM 12/5/2004, you wrote: >We have to add rice to our salt shakers or it will become a solid chunk from >soaking up our sub-tropical Gulf Coast humidity. > >GlenninHOH (GLUB GLUB) LOL!!! -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.5 - Release Date: 12/3/2004 From bobcarla at golden.net Sun Dec 5 20:29:28 2004 From: bobcarla at golden.net (bobcarla@golden.net) Date: Sun Dec 5 20:29:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] You have an Admirer Message-ID: <3e4426a4cb265e50e0c91cca67fb39@s4200nx> Someone has asked us on there behalf to send
you this email and tell you they think you are
wonderfull!!! All the The mystery persons details
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Note: This footer will be removed with Licensed Version From geenet2 at mchsi.com Sun Dec 5 20:38:02 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Sun Dec 5 20:38:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Spiders References: <20041204174144.371F9CBA1AF@delivery.infowest.com><6.1.2.0.0.20041205085646.02583520@mail.aloha.net> <009c01c4db45$80921460$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <002d01c4db4d$5f923a80$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> I worked in a couple of those pet stores....so take it from me. If you handle a tarantula, wash your hands thoroughly immediately after. The hairs on tarantulas are VERY irritating to the skin and particularly nasty in the eyes. So don't rub your face or eyes after petting that tarantula. Those who do, singe the hairs off the tarantula with a blowtorch before battering and frying them....yuck. Yeah, and I had snow crabs for supper tonight....but somehow I cannot imagine dipping a spider leg in butter and enjoying it as much. Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Wimpee" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 9:41 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Spiders > Lots of strange people keep tarantulas as pets and handle them often. > Many pet stores sell them... > > Glenn > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Spiders (was unrealistic...). > > > > At 07:41 AM 12/5/2004, you wrote: > > >Hi Margaret, > > >The Tarantulas in Utah are mostly harmless, if you pet one you > > >will find that the hair on them is really quite soft. > > >Regards, > > >Lanny > > > > ...pet one? PET ONE??? Arghhhh!!!! > > > > K. > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From LynnMemTn at aol.com Sun Dec 5 20:44:32 2004 From: LynnMemTn at aol.com (LynnMemTn@aol.com) Date: Sun Dec 5 20:44:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] You have an Admirer Message-ID: <8b.1bd2ff22.2ee53db0@aol.com> there was no attachment --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From afox at drizzle.com Sun Dec 5 23:02:34 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Sun Dec 5 23:02:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN]: You have an Admirer In-Reply-To: <3e4426a4cb265e50e0c91cca67fb39@s4200nx> Message-ID: The attachment was removed by StripMIME before it reached the list. The offending user has been sent a message detailing what he or she did wrong, and then unsubscribed from the list. Aaron Fox Rockhounds Admin -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sun Dec 5 23:54:28 2004 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sun Dec 5 23:54:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20041205210228.01f400d0@mail.adelphia.net> References: <84132B61-4720-11D9-87AE-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.0.3.0.2.20041205210228.01f400d0@mail.adelphia.net> Message-ID: <41B41034.8050908@xs4all.nl> I think the best database is your own home made one. MSAccess is available to nearly anybody. It really pays to play a little with that programme or even by an "MSACCESS for dummy's" book to get you started. Once you grasp the basics it is not difficult to design your own database with exactly the information you want. And there are enough people on this list who can and will answer any questions about the design. Just do not use Excel for this purpose If you sort your table alphabetically in Excel it is very easy to sort only a single column. Once saved you end up with all wrong localities to all minerals. Cheers, Maurice Sally Baldwin wrote: > Hi, friends, you all intimidate me with your great vaults of rocks, > not to mention laundry rooms and bathrooms, and I imagine they are all > properly catalogued, too. Well, mostly. > > Since I'm at the beginning I'd like to tackle doing a proper database > thingie before things get out of hand. I searched the archives, but > only found info from several years back, at which time folks were > wondering if something new had come along. And since that was close > to five years back, I thought I'd ask. I've seen a few propietary > programs listed, on the internet, and I wonder if you have any > recommendations. That is, if you were starting all over now, is there > one you'd use? > > I'd like something that would also make labels, of course... > including ones for micromounts. Hope I'm not asking for too much. > > The discussion on spiders reminds me that many years ago in the hazy, > strange days that were the 'sixties, a friend of mine had given me a > Herk positioned in a little vug (are they still vugs when they are > that small?) and I had my trusty 10x loupe out examining it. I am > lost in admiration of the herk, which of course looked gigantic up > close, when I turned the stone a bit and a grub of some sort, long > dead, dropped into my field of view. It looked as big as Godzilla, at > 10x, and I screeched and dropped everything in my lap, and then felt > so damned foolish -- but it was pretty funny... > > Best, > Sally > > Never lose altitude unnecessarily. > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From tangojuli at yahoo.com Mon Dec 6 02:22:27 2004 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Mon Dec 6 02:22:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <3khj62$iuksmr@mxip13a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <20041206102227.82663.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com> Hey Tommy, Glad to hear about your database again. I remember you were beta testing a year ago. You may have answered this before, but bear with me. I've got my collection in an Excel database right now; is it a clean process to convert my file to your database? Will formulas convert well with sub and superscript? thanks, tina Tommy Armstrong wrote: Dear Sally, Don Halterman and I have developed a mineral database for a mineral museum and individual collectors(he pretty much designed the structure and fields and I did the coding and forms basic design). There are a few caveats to it that you should be aware of however. It was created as an Access application and as such it requires a full installation of MS Office 2003 and really needs to run under Windows XP. It integrates with Outlook, MS Word, Excel. It contains just about any field you might want and also the ability to add new ones. Since it is written under Access and all code is accessible, if you want to learn Access, you can add to it. Also all the built in query and report generators of Access are fully available. Since it is extremely doubtful that MS will ever discontinue Access and they will make sure that previous versions will not become outdated. It allows the attachment of any kind of document to the specimen (pictures, pdf files, word files, etc.) and also the ability to creat a library of pictures and documents that can be attached to one or more speciemns. It will also connect to different onling mineral databases and mapping programs with one click. Now with the new full text search engines such as the very good FREE one at http://www.copernic.com/, one can then search those docs instantaneously. It is also my plan to incorportate PaperPort into the database for scanning and and OCR and pdf conversion. Very good program for $100 by http://scansoft.com/paperport/. You can see some screenshots at http://www.hockyjocky.com/mineral_database.htm I have changed a few of them to add a few micromount specific fields such as mounted, when mounted , and mounter. Drop me a note offlist and will answer any other questions. Tommy Armstrong "Creativity is the marvelous capacity to grasp distinct realities and draw a spark from their juxtaposition." Max Ernst > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Sally Baldwin > Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 9:14 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > > Hi, friends, you all intimidate me with your great vaults of > rocks, not to mention laundry rooms and bathrooms, and I > imagine they are all properly catalogued, too. Well, mostly. > > Since I'm at the beginning I'd like to tackle doing a proper > database thingie before things get out of hand. I searched > the archives, but only found info from several years back, at > which time folks were wondering if something new had come > along. And since that was close to five years back, I > thought I'd ask. I've seen a few propietary programs listed, > on the internet, and I wonder if you have any > recommendations. That is, if you were starting all over now, > is there one you'd use? > > I'd like something that would also make labels, of course... > including ones for micromounts. Hope I'm not asking for too much. > > The discussion on spiders reminds me that many years ago in > the hazy, strange days that were the 'sixties, a friend of > mine had given me a Herk positioned in a little vug (are they > still vugs when they are that small?) and I had my trusty 10x > loupe out examining it. I am lost in admiration of the herk, > which of course looked gigantic up close, when I turned the > stone a bit and a grub of some sort, long dead, dropped into > my field of view. It looked as big as Godzilla, at 10x, and > I screeched and dropped everything in my lap, and then felt > so damned foolish -- but it was pretty funny... > > Best, > Sally > > Never lose altitude unnecessarily. > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Dec 6 05:28:19 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Dec 6 05:28:20 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20041205210228.01f400d0@mail.adelphia.net> Message-ID: Sally I once put a really big spider under the microscope after chloroforming it. I was trying to take a good look at the eyes and the ends of the legs. Suddenly, the spider twitched, stood up and walked towards me... (actually I ran away from me but the microscope reverses the direction of movement)... I STILL have goose bumps from that... 35 years ago, imagine! Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Sally Baldwin Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 3:14 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? Hi, friends, you all intimidate me with your great vaults of rocks, not to mention laundry rooms and bathrooms, and I imagine they are all properly catalogued, too. Well, mostly. Since I'm at the beginning I'd like to tackle doing a proper database thingie before things get out of hand. I searched the archives, but only found info from several years back, at which time folks were wondering if something new had come along. And since that was close to five years back, I thought I'd ask. I've seen a few propietary programs listed, on the internet, and I wonder if you have any recommendations. That is, if you were starting all over now, is there one you'd use? I'd like something that would also make labels, of course... including ones for micromounts. Hope I'm not asking for too much. The discussion on spiders reminds me that many years ago in the hazy, strange days that were the 'sixties, a friend of mine had given me a Herk positioned in a little vug (are they still vugs when they are that small?) and I had my trusty 10x loupe out examining it. I am lost in admiration of the herk, which of course looked gigantic up close, when I turned the stone a bit and a grub of some sort, long dead, dropped into my field of view. It looked as big as Godzilla, at 10x, and I screeched and dropped everything in my lap, and then felt so damned foolish -- but it was pretty funny... Best, Sally Never lose altitude unnecessarily. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From libawc at emory.edu Mon Dec 6 05:32:17 2004 From: libawc at emory.edu (Anita Westlake) Date: Mon Dec 6 05:32:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Piles of rocks everywhere In-Reply-To: <017001c4d9bd$470b3660$bcf3a5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <002201c4db98$0199dff0$bcbd8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> An excellent post Rock! You may want to consider writing this up for your local rock club newsletter if you haven't already. Truer words were never spoken! Anita D. Westlake -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Rock Currier Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 11:54 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Piles of rocks everywhere A word of warning to all of you with piles of rocks everywhere. At some point, unless you take care of the problem before hand, someone will take care of the problem for you when you die. I certainly understand the comforts and joys of having a lot of rocks around you. I have 10,000 square feet of rocks surrounding me every day at work. Several times each year I am called on the phone to see if I might be interested in taking care of piles of rocks (minerals, rocks etc) that other people accumulated during their life times. These range from a few chunks of petrified wood that their grandfather collected in Arizona back in the late 1800s to garages and rooms full of lapidary equipment and specimens and overgrown piles of rough rock that where collected from a lifetime of field trips and summer vacations. Usually in such cases, the property needs to be cleaned out so it can be put out on the real-estate market and sold. In some cases I advise the people that the material has little value and we would not have any interest in making an offer on it. In this case I advise them to call the local gem and mineral societies and offer the stuff to the members for free or at a nominal cost, like ten cents per pound. The ballance of the material is thrown into the trash or into one of the big rental dumptsers. Sometimes if there is enough tonnage of rough rocks of large enough size that have lapidary potential we offer 10 cents per pound and take the time to sort it into barrels of different kinds of rough that we can sell for a dollar or two per pound or in the worse case at fifty cents a pound. We end up throwing a lot of it in the trash anyway if we can't find a school or institution that can use it for teaching purposes. We can't store it very long for free nor spend much time or money advertising free rocks and specimens. I can't think of how many thousands of pounds of unlabled micromaterial I have thrown out in the trash. If the specimen material does not have labels with it and I can't sight identify it, most of it has no value at all and gets thrown in the trash. If you have a lot of rocks laying around the house. Put labels on them, preferably glue labels on the specimens. Without these, most of them will end up in the trash. The grim reaper gets us all in the end. As a friend of mine jokes, no one gets out of this world alive. In the sweap of history, more specimens have ended up in the trash that have ever been saved. How long your spcimens will survive depends to a great extent on how well you label them. After you die, the odds are that there will be persons in charge of your collection that know little or nothing about your specimens. Unless you make them look important (good labels, nice cabinets and specimen cabinets) they will think they are not, and throw them out in the trash or try and sell them at the local swap meet. At least if they look important, more care will be taken with their disposal and they will survive longer and be of more use to society. What will be the half life of you collection? How many years after you die will it be before half the specimens in you collection end up in the trash? You goal should be to increase the half life of your collection as much as possible. One of the micromount collections I bought was from the estate of a wonderful micromounter, Bob Massie. When asked if he had made any plans for the disposal of his collection he would say no. When asked why not, he said that when you were dead you were dead and since he didn't have any children or relatives it didn't make any difference. He just didn't care. He died without a will and his house and collections went to the state and were auctoned off by a local auctioneer that didn't know anything aobut minerals. If you feel, like Bob, and don't feel any responsibility for the things you accumulate during your life there is no point in anyone trying to arue with you and you should feel free to continue as you are, but if you worry at all about the minerals and specimens you have spent a lifetime accumulating, then you may want to spend some time taking care of them. Rock Currier _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Dec 6 05:53:50 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Dec 6 05:53:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A tarantula-kebab In-Reply-To: <004f01c4db44$987303b0$bcf3a5d8@rock5> Message-ID: Ok, Rock, you asked for it! Ladies, look away for a minute, this is gonna get ugly! Fred, my new neighbor is somewhat of a party animal. He smokes a kind of green tobacco that comes from flowers rather than from leaves and goes to Thailand for two reasons: the biggest full moon in the world and "recreational" mushroom consumption. On one of his more orgiastic nights "on the town" he ate, in a more or less comatose state, 4 tarantula-kebabs. (They fry them on a stick like sates.) His wife and his friend videotaped the event from the time that the vendor put his hand in the jar with live spiders until Fred's final burp from contentment. Next day Fred got relatively sober and his buddy showed him the video on a big screen TV. Fred set a new vomiting record. Both in duration AND distance. He actually vomited for two days. Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Rock Currier Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 4:35 Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] A tarantula story Once long long ago in a galexy far far away....I was auditing a course in optical mineralogy at Cal State LA. I had talked the much too permissive department chairman to allow me to do this even though I was not a regular student there and even got the professor who taught the class to go along witth the deal. Most of the students were geology majors and were taking a full load of geology courses includng some with field trips. One of the guys went by the name of Cutworth and he sat close to me in class and I would hear all about the field trips etc and the other gossip going around in the department. One morning Cutworth was late and when he came in all the kids started growning and making rude noises like, "Oh Jesus Christ, here comes Cutworth". It turned out that on the most recent field trip when they were camping out that they had caught a tarantula and after suitable lubrication of an alcaholic nature one of the guys bet Cutworth he couldn't eat the tarantula. He finally agreed to eat the tarantula if they could get up enough money between them. The ammount they finally got up was about $50 but they wouldn't get the money if he spit it up or threw up. They said he looked at it a long time before he did it and won the $50 dollars. They even had photos of the deed, one of them showing little hairy legs sticking out of his mouth. Even not being there I started to feel a little woozy. Rock _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From libawc at emory.edu Mon Dec 6 06:54:54 2004 From: libawc at emory.edu (Anita Westlake) Date: Mon Dec 6 06:55:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Lack of Counterspace In-Reply-To: <41B290CF.3814@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <002c01c4dba3$8c4b3df0$bcbd8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> Speaking of doors...I've always thought it would be a good idea to make a shallow shelf running just above the 6 doors in my hallway. Held up by fancy wooden brackets, the narrow shelves could hold specimens galore. Some track lighting down the center of the hall would "spotlight" the really special ones. Of course, it helps to be 6 feet tall to see 'em! Anita D. Westlake -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kreigh Tomaszewski Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 11:40 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Lack of Counterspace TomE61@aol.com wrote: > > I enjoyed reading all of the postings about "lack of counterspace" and can > certainly appreciate all that we go through to house our treasures. > Look forward to hearing more stories (or suggestions) about this. > > Happy holidays, > Tom Russell Hi Tom, Doorways with doors are often positioned so that when the door is open, it is up against a wall. The doorknob (or doorstop) causes two to four inches deep of wall space to be hidden behind the door when it is open. This is a commonly overlooked space for a display shelf, especially if the door is normally open. A typical door leaves a 24 X 48 X 3 inch space above the doorknob for a hanging wall shelf. I have several displays that you have to 'close the door' to see. One (long) wall of my basement bathroom (above the towel bar) has a 3 inch deep shelf unit covering the wall to the ceiling. Three of the four walls in my (basement) laundry room have rock cabinets from four feet to ceiling (leaving room for appliances, including sink and freezer -- the other wall has the window). If you build/buy your bookcases just a little deep, you can line up a row of specimens in front of the books. Leave at least one blank specimen space per bookcase/shelf so you can easily move specimens around to pull out books. When collecting rocks and minerals, please remember that any nearly horizontal surface IS display space. Kreigh _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From LarryRush at worldnet.att.net Sun Dec 5 08:51:26 2004 From: LarryRush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Mon Dec 6 07:04:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pegmatology Message-ID: <001401c4dba5$0c920740$368a4c0c@fekib> There is a new book on pegmatites out called Pegmatology. I haven't seen or read it, so don't use this as a recommendation, but if anyone is interested, here are some details: Pegmatology The Rubellite Press, New Orleans, LA 176 pages, 300 color images; "aimed at the mid-level student of pegmatites" By Wm.Simmons, PhD; Karen Webber,PhD;Alexander Falster,MS; and James Nizamoff,MS $59, plus shipping Larry Rush www.ConnRoxMinerals.com www.mineralstotrade.homestead.com "Noel Coward thought work was more fun than play, but he never, ever worked in the mines" --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dguin at earthlink.net Mon Dec 6 07:12:13 2004 From: dguin at earthlink.net (Dave Guin) Date: Mon Dec 6 07:12:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pegmatology In-Reply-To: <001401c4dba5$0c920740$368a4c0c@fekib> References: <001401c4dba5$0c920740$368a4c0c@fekib> Message-ID: <41B476CD.9050106@earthlink.net> Lawrence Rush wrote: >There is a new book on pegmatites out called Pegmatology. I haven't seen or read it, so don't use this as a recommendation, but if anyone is interested, here are some details: > >Pegmatology >The Rubellite Press, New Orleans, LA >176 pages, 300 color images; "aimed at the mid-level student of pegmatites" >By Wm.Simmons, PhD; Karen Webber,PhD;Alexander Falster,MS; and James Nizamoff,MS > >$59, plus shipping > >Larry Rush > > I attended the pegmatite workshop in Maine this past summer. It is taught by Simmons, et al. This is the text Skip uses. It covers from the tectonic/plutonic development of pegmatites to the molecular composition of tourmalines (and everything in between). I highly recommend this book for anyone who wants to understand pegmatites and the newer theories associated with them. Karen's work has added an amazing perspective to the body of knowledge. Plus it has some pretty pictures ;) Peace, dave From mosasaur47 at msn.com Mon Dec 6 09:17:14 2004 From: mosasaur47 at msn.com (Kenneth Quinn) Date: Mon Dec 6 07:18:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pegmatology References: <001401c4dba5$0c920740$368a4c0c@fekib> Message-ID: A little note. the authors are affiliated with the Univ. of New Orleans Geology Department. Al's e-mail address is afalster@uno.edu, you can get the e-mail addies of the rest at www.uno.edu . Kenneth Quinn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" To: Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:51 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Pegmatology There is a new book on pegmatites out called Pegmatology. I haven't seen or read it, so don't use this as a recommendation, but if anyone is interested, here are some details: Pegmatology The Rubellite Press, New Orleans, LA 176 pages, 300 color images; "aimed at the mid-level student of pegmatites" By Wm.Simmons, PhD; Karen Webber,PhD;Alexander Falster,MS; and James Nizamoff,MS $59, plus shipping Larry Rush www.ConnRoxMinerals.com www.mineralstotrade.homestead.com "Noel Coward thought work was more fun than play, but he never, ever worked in the mines" --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tim at orerockon.com Mon Dec 6 07:34:15 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Dec 6 07:34:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Go for it Aaron! In-Reply-To: References: <200412030440.iB34etkT020241@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041206072552.02e0f500@mail.spiritone.com> http://www.crown-sales.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=91_92&products_id=666 Have a BLAST! Dexpan Non Explosive [DEXPAN] $34.97 $34.97 PER ONE 11 POUND BAG $99.88 PER ONE CASE (4-11 POUND BAGS) Dexpan is a Non-Explosive Controlled Demolition Agent. Demolition, beaking and cutting can be used according to work scheme, it is very easy to crunch the remaining reinforced concrete structures on demand during demolition. Dexpan is poured into the same hole that dangerous explosives are usually placed in. Dexpan can do more work safely, while providing control expansive cracking. Dexpan can also be used to achive perfect slabs, and blocks from onyx, marble, granite or whatever material you are working with. Dexpan can be applied in the field where cracking by means of explosives is not suitable. Clean up on the job site is safer and faster and easier to stay within environmental and OSHA regulations while using this exceptional product. The environmental implications of this product are obvious, little clean up, dissolves in water after use, no chemical residue and no gaseous fumes. This also makes Dexpan safe to use in close quarters, where large equipment cannot reach and dust contamination is totally out of the question. When explosives have to be used, Dexpan is there to help cut cost and increase safety, because Dexpan is used to structurally weaken buildings in order to use less explosives and to help insure an even safer collapse. What can DEXPAN help you with? Rock, Limestone, Road Paving, Tunnel Excavating, Demolition under water...Excavation of rock wall or bedrock, splitting of boulders, slab, for road expansion, for resident development, excavation associated with tunneling, trenching shaft sinking, for various types of construction work, reinforced concrete, cement, demolition of abandoned buildings, break bridge, remodeling...Demolition of mass concrete, demolition of foundations for machinery and structures, pillars, beams, wall or slab of bridges demolition.... Types of Dexpan: Depending on usable temperature, there are three types of Dexpan: Dexpan I - usable temp. of F 77/104 or c 25/40 Dexpan II - usable temp of F 50/77 or C 10/25 Dexpan III - usable temp of F 22/13 or C -5/10 Drilling & Mixing: A. Drilling: Drill hole with an air drill according to the requirements of design. Hole Diameter: 1 1/2" - 2.0", 1' - 2' apart. B. Mixing: For a small amount of DEXPAN, mixed by hand, use rubber glove. Pour about 1.5 liter (.33 gal) clean water into a container and add one bag of DEXPAN, which is 11 lbs (or pour water and DEXPAN at a rate of 1:3 units by weight), mix well. C. Filling: Clean up the holes before filling. DEXPAN slurry should be poured into hole within 10 minutes after mixing. For horizontal holes, a grouting pump and a plug for stopping are required. D. Cracking or cutting time: The cracks appear in 30 minutes after filling, depending on the weather, rocks and concrete temperature. The cracks become wider with time (24 hr max. expanding time). E. Recommendations: A pair of safety goggles is recommended when working. After filling, do not look at any hole closely and directly. Keep DEXPAN in a dry storage. Choose the correct DEXPAN type for the weather. Strength is 18,000 PSI At 11:50 PM 12/2/2004, you wrote: >Since the excavation was in downtown Seattle, blasting was not the best >option. I believe the contractor used a chemical wedge (mixing a granular >powder with an aqueous solution to hydrate and expand the mixture) in >holes drilled into the erratic to break it into smaller pieces. I've oft >thought about finding some of that chemical wedging material for my own >personal use... Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.5 - Release Date: 12/3/2004 From tim at orerockon.com Mon Dec 6 07:49:36 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Dec 6 07:49:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 50 ton erratic In-Reply-To: <8A439E3A-4551-11D9-8713-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> References: <8A439E3A-4551-11D9-8713-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041206074058.02dcfa68@mail.spiritone.com> Lanny, that definition fits all of the SCDAs *soundless chemical demolition agents). Fract.ag is still around, Safex was manufactured for quite a few years but I haven't seen any mention of it lately, and Bristar used to be pretty popular. You can even get pre-loaded cartridges that drop in just about any size drill hole. The boys at the Dust Devil use these to break up big caprocks. I have used Dexpan to break up jasper boulders for John Marston, the hardest part was drilling a hole in solid jasper with a rotary hammer. On a hot day it cracks a big one (~350 lbs.) in an hour or so. If it's below 77F you need another type for cold weather. I doubt it gets to 77F any night up at Spruce! At 09:34 AM 12/3/2004, you wrote: >Aaron, > >There is at least one other too. Bob Jackson has used one and I'm quite >sure the name wasn't Dexpan. I recall that the one he used did the job >well, was a bit pricey and took overnight to work. > >Lanny Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.5 - Release Date: 12/3/2004 From tim at orerockon.com Mon Dec 6 08:19:07 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Dec 6 08:19:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Automatic vs Stick in SUV/Question In-Reply-To: <419A8B46.3060005@azgs.az.gov> References: <419A8B46.3060005@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041206081258.02e7fa10@mail.spiritone.com> Just read this topic; I would second that SERIOUS off-roaders (note: I am being snobby here. Off-road means there IS NO ROAD!) prefer an automatic, with low range 4WD. I used to have a stick Trooper & the automatic Dodge I have now kicks butt in terms of ease of use in potentially dangerous situations, i.e. descending into a canyon on a talus slope (been there, done that with both :) ). And it has nothing to do with the clutch, and everything to do with not having to shift 590 times when you are creeping downhill in low range and you HAVE to accelerate or you will slide a few hundred feet. At 03:20 PM 11/16/2004, you wrote: >Assuming you're talking about 4WD situations, Manual is better for going >downhill, Automatic is better for starting from a dead stop on a hill >going uphill. I've heard that most "serious" 4WD people prefer automatic, >I suspect because there is less chance of clutch problems out in the >boonies. By "serious" I actually mean people who go out looking for bad >places to play with their 4WD. I don't shrink from rough patches, but I >don't go looking for them and if there is a chance of harming my vehicle I >will either walk the last bit or find another route. I've owned one >automatic 4WD which was an OK vehicle, but I prefer manual. If you are >getting an automatic 4WD and actually intend to use it, I would advise a 4 >or 5 speed automatic transmission with both high and low ranges. My >preference for serious rockhounding and camping (but NOT looking for >routes that will break your vehicle) is a V8 full-size pickup with five >speed manual and a transfer case for low and high range. For a smaller >SUV, a 4 cylinder engine can be adequate, but I think 6 cylinders are >better. It's not about fuel economy, it's about getting where you want to go. > >JOHN STOCKWELL wrote: > >>Hi out there! >> >>Would welcome opinions as to the relative ease of handling in tight >>situations; more control with stick? That's what I've always driven, but >>am thinking of a shift. >> >>Thanks. >> >>John >> >>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >>--- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> > >-- >Rick Trapp >Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey >rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.5 - Release Date: 12/3/2004 From tim at orerockon.com Mon Dec 6 08:39:55 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Dec 6 08:39:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] faceting questions In-Reply-To: <006901c4ce7c$b0a7f3c0$6401a8c0@Junior> References: <1a0.2bfcce1c.2eced4eb@aol.com> <006901c4ce7c$b0a7f3c0$6401a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041206082801.02e69be8@mail.spiritone.com> I would add that National Geographic had a great pic of faceted diamonds from India a few issues back and they were in that size range. They are faceted in sweatshops using crude machines in India and Thailand, among other SE Asian countries. You can indeed buy 2mm faceted stones in SRB from many sources. At 01:14 PM 11/19/2004, you wrote: >>Does anybody know what the minimum facet able size is (excluding emerald >>cuts)? > >I asked that question on this list a loooong time ago, and was told that >1mm across is about the minimum. Faceting machines are indeed extremely >precise - and expensive. I've been told a good unit starts at something >like $4,000. > > >> Who >>would bother faceting a stone only worth .99 cents? > >Most cutting is done overseas for pitiful wages. > >Cheers, > >Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com >Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com >The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com >Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.6 - Release Date: 12/5/2004 From hptdesigns at charter.net Mon Dec 6 08:52:29 2004 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Mon Dec 6 08:47:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <20041206102227.82663.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3khdfd$ea3cc6@mxip04a.cluster1.charter.net> You can use sub and superscripts and added a character map to enable you to pretty easily add them and the greek letters and other characters to your descriptions and formula field. As far as the excel, it definitely can be imported but need to map the fields in the spreadsheet into the fields in the database. If you could email me a sample of your spreadsheet, I could answer the question on whether it would be a "clean conversion". Access itself has an import wizard that is pretty darned sophisticated. But I would like to try it out and see how your fields "match up". For example we have separate fields for location data--country, state, town, mine, etc. How many do you have in your excel file? If thousands, I could create code to parse the fields. Really need to see how you have yours set up. Also, if not straighforward, I am sure I could get he data into the database on a per hour basis. Or could come up with a conversion scenario for you. Tommy > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of tango juli > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:22 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > > Hey Tommy, > Glad to hear about your database again. I remember you were > beta testing a year ago. > You may have answered this before, but bear with me. I've got > my collection in an Excel database right now; is it a clean > process to convert my file to your database? Will formulas > convert well with sub and superscript? > thanks, > tina > > Tommy Armstrong wrote: > Dear Sally, > > Don Halterman and I have developed a mineral database for a > mineral museum and individual collectors(he pretty much > designed the structure and fields and I did the coding and > forms basic design). > > There are a few caveats to it that you should be aware of however. > > It was created as an Access application and as such it > requires a full installation of MS Office 2003 and really > needs to run under Windows XP. It integrates with Outlook, MS > Word, Excel. > > It contains just about any field you might want and also the > ability to add new ones. Since it is written under Access and > all code is accessible, if you want to learn Access, you can > add to it. Also all the built in query and report generators > of Access are fully available. Since it is extremely doubtful > that MS will ever discontinue Access and they will make sure > that previous versions will not become outdated. > > It allows the attachment of any kind of document to the > specimen (pictures, pdf files, word files, etc.) and also the > ability to creat a library of pictures and documents that can > be attached to one or more speciemns. It will also connect to > different onling mineral databases and mapping programs with > one click. > > Now with the new full text search engines such as the very > good FREE one at http://www.copernic.com/, one can then > search those docs instantaneously. It is also my plan to > incorportate PaperPort into the database for scanning and and > OCR and pdf conversion. Very good program for $100 by > http://scansoft.com/paperport/. > > You can see some screenshots at > http://www.hockyjocky.com/mineral_database.htm > > I have changed a few of them to add a few micromount specific > fields such as mounted, when mounted , and mounter. > > Drop me a note offlist and will answer any other questions. > > Tommy Armstrong > > "Creativity is the marvelous capacity to grasp distinct > realities and draw a spark from their juxtaposition." > Max Ernst > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Sally > > Baldwin > > Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 9:14 PM > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > > Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > > > > Hi, friends, you all intimidate me with your great vaults of rocks, > > not to mention laundry rooms and bathrooms, and I imagine > they are all > > properly catalogued, too. Well, mostly. > > > > Since I'm at the beginning I'd like to tackle doing a > proper database > > thingie before things get out of hand. I searched the archives, but > > only found info from several years back, at which time folks were > > wondering if something new had come along. And since that > was close to > > five years back, I thought I'd ask. I've seen a few propietary > > programs listed, on the internet, and I wonder if you have any > > recommendations. That is, if you were starting all over > now, is there > > one you'd use? > > > > I'd like something that would also make labels, of course... > > including ones for micromounts. Hope I'm not asking for too much. > > > > The discussion on spiders reminds me that many years ago in > the hazy, > > strange days that were the 'sixties, a friend of mine had > given me a > > Herk positioned in a little vug (are they still vugs when they are > > that small?) and I had my trusty 10x loupe out examining > it. I am lost > > in admiration of the herk, which of course looked gigantic > up close, > > when I turned the stone a bit and a grub of some sort, long dead, > > dropped into my field of view. It looked as big as > Godzilla, at 10x, > > and I screeched and dropped everything in my lap, and then felt so > > damned foolish -- but it was pretty funny... > > > > Best, > > Sally > > > > Never lose altitude unnecessarily. > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Mon Dec 6 09:00:50 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Mon Dec 6 09:01:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <3khdfd$ea3cc6@mxip04a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <200412061700.iB6H0vN1030509@bubbleator.drizzle.com> I'm not sure if it would work, but OpenOffice might be a good, low-cost solution. Low cost, as in "free". Access can be migrated and used, I believe, with OpenOFfice. See: http://www.openoffice.org/product/dbase.html It all depends on how the databases are set up. GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Tommy Armstrong > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 10:52 AM > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > > You can use sub and superscripts and added a character map to > enable you to pretty easily add them and the greek letters > and other characters to your descriptions and formula field. > As far as the excel, it definitely can be imported but need > to map the fields in the spreadsheet into the fields in the > database. If you could email me a sample of your spreadsheet, > I could answer the question on whether it would be a "clean > conversion". > > Access itself has an import wizard that is pretty darned > sophisticated. But I would like to try it out and see how > your fields "match up". > > For example we have separate fields for location > data--country, state, town, mine, etc. > > How many do you have in your excel file? > > If thousands, I could create code to parse the fields. > > Really need to see how you have yours set up. > > Also, if not straighforward, I am sure I could get he data > into the database on a per hour basis. Or could come up with > a conversion scenario for you. > > Tommy From TomE61 at aol.com Mon Dec 6 09:02:35 2004 From: TomE61 at aol.com (TomE61@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 6 09:07:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: In UK This January Message-ID: <89.1b7045bd.2ee5eaab@aol.com> Gary, I was in London in January 2004. I can think of several alternative ways to spend your hard-earned money than at Harrod's. While I was there, I visited a small mineral shop that had some impressive and some reasonably priced specimens. The owners were extremely helpful and I am sure could provide with you information, especially about other collectors who may not advertise or have access to an electronic bulletin board. The name of the shop: Gregory, Bottley & LLoyd 13 Seagrove Road London, UK SW6 1RP (No e-mail address as I recall) Although not centrally located, it is very convenient to public transportation. The following site, if you haven't already been there, has listings for at least four (4) UK mineral clubs and societies and they may be worth contacting. http://www.minerant.org/collecting.html Have a safe and enjoyable trip. Cheers, Tom Russell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny at lrream.com Mon Dec 6 09:25:56 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Mon Dec 6 09:24:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 50 ton erratic In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041206074058.02dcfa68@mail.spiritone.com> References: <8A439E3A-4551-11D9-8713-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041206074058.02dcfa68@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: Tim, That figure of $35 for an 11 pound bag of Dexpan doesn't sound too bad. Any idea how that equates to the real world of using it several holes across a boulder? I would think that it might add up to be kind of expensive for a commercial operation of mining minerals if you had to use it often, but for an occasional job for us rabid non-professionals who don't have blasting licenses it might be a great thing to use on occasion. Regards, Lanny On Dec 6, 2004, at 7:49 AM, Tim Fisher wrote: > Lanny, that definition fits all of the SCDAs *soundless chemical > demolition agents). Fract.ag is still around, Safex was manufactured > for quite a few years but I haven't seen any mention of it lately, and > Bristar used to be pretty popular. You can even get pre-loaded > cartridges that drop in just about any size drill hole. The boys at > the Dust Devil use these to break up big caprocks. I have used Dexpan > to break up jasper boulders for John Marston, the hardest part was > drilling a hole in solid jasper with a rotary hammer. On a hot day it > cracks a big one (~350 lbs.) in an hour or so. If it's below 77F you > need another type for cold weather. I doubt it gets to 77F any night > up at Spruce! > > At 09:34 AM 12/3/2004, you wrote: > >> Aaron, >> >> There is at least one other too. Bob Jackson has used one and I'm >> quite sure the name wasn't Dexpan. I recall that the one he used did >> the job well, was a bit pricey and took overnight to work. >> >> Lanny > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.5 - Release Date: 12/3/2004 > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Mon Dec 6 09:31:26 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Mon Dec 6 09:31:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: In UK This January In-Reply-To: <89.1b7045bd.2ee5eaab@aol.com> Message-ID: <200412061731.iB6HVQEt008662@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Ah, Bottley & Lloyd! One of my favourite spots. Visiting that shop is liking stepping back into the 19th century. Wonderful drawers full of amazing things. I remember before they moved... They used to have a two storey shop that you entered in through a long, narrow passageway. Either side of the path was stacked to the ceiling with boxes that looked like they had been sitting there since the days of The Empire. I always pick up at least one something whilst there! I wonder if they still have that nice Louisiana opal??? A bit out of my price range, but if it is STILL there, they might be willing to haggle a bit! (Did he say LOUISIANA???) Thanks for the tips... GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > TomE61@aol.com > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:03 AM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: In UK This January > > > Gary, I was in London in January 2004. I can think of > several alternative ways to spend your hard-earned money than > at Harrod's. > > While I was there, I visited a small mineral shop that had > some impressive and some reasonably priced specimens. The > owners were extremely helpful and I am sure could provide > with you information, especially about other collectors who > may not advertise or have access to an electronic bulletin board. > > The name of the shop: > > Gregory, Bottley & LLoyd > 13 Seagrove Road > London, UK SW6 1RP > (No e-mail address as I recall) > > Although not centrally located, it is very convenient to > public transportation. > > > The following site, if you haven't already been there, has > listings for at > least four (4) UK mineral clubs and societies and they may be > worth contacting. > > > http://www.minerant.org/collecting.html > > > Have a safe and enjoyable trip. > > > Cheers, > Tom Russell From tim at orerockon.com Mon Dec 6 09:46:12 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Dec 6 09:46:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Peruvian Blue Opal??? In-Reply-To: References: <00bc01c4d4fd$c797df50$215e70d1@S0033035959> <005201c4d578$db2a70c0$c5a6490c@pete> <006301c4d57e$49c10a80$c5a6490c@pete> <005b01c4d5ba$97e028e0$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> <00ca01c4d5bf$aa924900$685fe842@pavilion> <000a01c4d5c4$508f6e60$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041206094229.02d712c0@mail.spiritone.com> Dale Rhode has a terrible reputation among the quarry owners around Biggs. He also auctioned stolen Opal Butte jelly opal on Ebay; one buyer even returned his to Dale Hewitt (the rightful owner of the mine at the time) when he learned of the theft. For this he was given probation and a fine by the county judge, who apparently thinks jelly opal is valueless. Caveat emptor! Big time! At 08:57 AM 11/29/2004, you wrote: >On Nov 28, 2004, at 10:34 PM, Wayne wrote: > >>>Biggs Jasper can be bought from Rhodes Cabbin and Gems. > > Tread carefully when dealing with this dude. I bought 3 items >on eBay from him last May. When they arrived 27 days later I left >identical feedback for all three items, "Nice rock, slow shipping." >For that mild rebuke, I was banned from trading with him. He never >told me of this action, I had to find out in August when I bid on >another of his items any the eBay notice came up. I thought of >complaining to eBay, but why fight to bid on his stuff which >tends to go for very high prices. Instead I revised my feedback >to note his lack of courtesy and compared him to the soup nazi >from Seinfeld, "None for you." > Generally I have good luck on rough from eBay sources. >You will find many sellers who honestly depict and describe >their items and have timely shipping. Good people to deal >with from my experience are (by eBay id) > chimingrock > diamondminerals > gems24 > urchindiver > arizona-lapiday-gem-rough > wyomaric > > The first 5 have a wide variety of items. Wyomaric has only >Wyoming Jade. Their rough always seems to go cheaply. >They have a wide variety of jade, he was a miner with many >claims. They only ask $2 lb. for buy it now chunks. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.6 - Release Date: 12/5/2004 From tim at orerockon.com Mon Dec 6 09:39:06 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Dec 6 09:54:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pyrite oxydation In-Reply-To: <073493C8-4618-11D9-87AE-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> References: <000001c4d965$f8d1cd80$aac1f051@maxdata> <001501c4d97a$81f6f720$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> <000d01c4d9c4$5b083b20$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> <073493C8-4618-11D9-87AE-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041206092444.02d71c40@mail.spiritone.com> I have never seen a pyrite cast after anything at Otter Rock. Nor have I seen any pyrites in the cliffs. Not to say that it isn't possible; after all the calcite casts of clams on the Timber Hwy don't look like anything when they are lying broken at the foot of the roadcut. Remember that it is a state park and they will fine you if you are caught digging for anything. As for the Ore Bin reprint, most of those sites are garbage. I tried ALL of them about 8 years ago. Another example of someone repeating what they read instead of actually going and looking for themselves. If you go, do it now. Winter storms expose fresh pyrite, and I suspect that what is not covered by seawater decomposes rather quickly, as the abundance of pyrite in summer is practically zero. As for oxygen: the amount of oxygen dissolved in aerated (aka surface) seawater is approximately 18 parts per MILLION. The oxygen content of air is approximately 21% or 21 parts per HUNDRED. It is simply a matter of exposing the pyrites to enough oxygen to greatly accelerate the rate of decomposition, nothing more. There is no air in the clays at Boulder Creek until you dig into them. Thus the pyrite is unoxidized. Until you ruin it by collecting it :) At 09:14 AM 12/4/2004, you wrote: >Hi John, > >I just checked Gladwell's guide, and he doesn't mention that they are >casts. And those I picked up next to the outcrop were fresh and sharp, not >eroded, so I don't think they lost any form from erosion. Haven't seen a >DOGAMI report on the area. > >But that's just my feelings and memory, I'm a long way from the site! > >While you are looking around, find out where the Clarkia quartz locality >is. The one that produces the milky crystals in groups with some to >several inches long. I keep seeing specimens but they are always from >someone who has obtained them from someone else, not any who has been there. > >Regards, > >Lanny > > >On Dec 3, 2004, at 9:44 PM, John Siebel wrote: > >>Lanny, >> >>You're right. The Otter Rock (Oregon) pyrites are *very* rough casts. But if >>you work into the sandstone a bit you'll find that the less eroded ones are >>more true to form. My small collection of them is still packed away after >>two or three years and I have no idea how they're holding up. Finding them >>will be a good project for tomorrow when we expect to get snowed in. Perhaps >>I'll find the Boulder Creek stuff too. I think that I remember a DOGAMI >>paper about Otter Rock and I know it was mentioned in one of the Gladwell >>books. >> >>This summer was busier than I had hoped so we did not make it up Tyson >>Creek. I still have that information on my desktop though, so we'll get >>there eventually. We did hit Emerald Creek for garnet and Mica Mountain >>(Idaho) for books of muscovite and loads of small shorl tourmaline that got >>sent out to Kitty for her pebble pup lecture. >> >>Yours Truly - John >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Lanny" >>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> >>Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 11:52 PM >>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Pyrite oxydation > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.5 - Release Date: 12/3/2004 Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.6 - Release Date: 12/5/2004 From rik.dillen at skynet.be Mon Dec 6 09:58:12 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Mon Dec 6 09:58:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <3khdfd$ea3cc6@mxip04a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <000401c4dbbd$2b4599a0$e1e0c950@maxdata> *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Tommy Armstrong *Sent: maandag 6 december 2004 17:52 *To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' *Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? * *Access itself has an import wizard that is pretty darned sophisticated. But I would like to try it out and see how your fields "match up". For example we have separate fields for location data--country, state, town, mine, etc. * >>>>> For those who are interested I still have my good old ACCESS database, that I made up originally in Dbase 2+, later to Dbase 3 and Dbase 4, and finally all thinkable version of ACCESS. I can send (off list, of course, upon request) a sample version, for free, to be used as you want. Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ From rik.dillen at skynet.be Mon Dec 6 09:58:12 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Mon Dec 6 09:59:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: In UK This January In-Reply-To: <89.1b7045bd.2ee5eaab@aol.com> Message-ID: <000501c4dbbd$2b9b33b0$e1e0c950@maxdata> *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of *TomE61@aol.com *Sent: maandag 6 december 2004 18:03 *To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com *Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: In UK This January * * Gregory, Bottley & LLoyd * 13 Seagrove Road * London, UK SW6 1RP * (No e-mail address as I recall) * *Although not centrally located, it is very convenient to public transportation. >>>>> I have been there in 1973, when they were still in SW London (near the British Museum of Natural History). At that time their stock was overwhelming : a huge hangar with piles of more than 3 meter high, with many stacks that hadn't been touched for 50-100 years ! * Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ From rik.dillen at skynet.be Mon Dec 6 10:16:16 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Mon Dec 6 10:16:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: In UK This January In-Reply-To: <200412061731.iB6HVQEt008662@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <000201c4dbbf$b0e3eba0$e1e0c950@maxdata> *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Gary Brown *Sent: maandag 6 december 2004 18:31 *To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' *Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: In UK This January * * *Ah, Bottley & Lloyd! One of my favourite spots. Visiting that shop is liking stepping back into the 19th century. Wonderful drawers full of amazing things. I remember before they moved... They used to have a two storey shop that you entered in through a long, narrow passageway. Either side of the path was stacked to the ceiling with boxes that looked like they had been sitting there since the days of The Empire. I always pick up at least one something whilst there! I wonder if they still have that nice Louisiana opal??? A bit out of my price range, but if it is STILL there, they might be willing to haggle a bit! (Did he say LOUISIANA???) * >>>>>> You evocated exactly my nostalgic feelings about Gregory and Bottley (at that time without "Lloyd" !). Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Dec 6 10:03:30 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Dec 6 10:18:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pegmatology Message-ID: <120620041803.5324.41B49EF1000E82E2000014CC216028106007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Yes, I lthink this is a pretty good book, too. I was excited the first time I saw it, but didn't buy it immediately (the price is about $65, as I recall--a bit pricey for a thick though softcover book), but I did break down and buy a copy at the next mineral show where it was being sold. If you really "care" about pegmatites and want to learn a lot about them, I recommend it. Pete Modreski -------------- Original message from "Lawrence Rush" : -------------- > There is a new book on pegmatites out called Pegmatology. I haven't seen or read > it, so don't use this as a recommendation, but if anyone is interested, here are > some details: > > Pegmatology > The Rubellite Press, New Orleans, LA > 176 pages, 300 color images; "aimed at the mid-level student of pegmatites" > By Wm.Simmons, PhD; Karen Webber,PhD;Alexander Falster,MS; and James Nizamoff,MS > > $59, plus shipping > > Larry Rush > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jr50wv at yahoo.com Mon Dec 6 10:31:05 2004 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Mon Dec 6 10:38:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Spiders? too late for spiders? Message-ID: <20041206183105.72888.qmail@web41012.mail.yahoo.com> Years ago when my wife worked nights and I was gloriously unemployed, I would watch the Johnny Carson Show starting at 11:30. He would often have a pretty young woman from the San Diego Zoo on, and she would bring a cute little baby tiger or bear or something like that. One night, she only had a small box, white cardboard. After a little banter, she opened the box, and took out a 6 inch (that's about 15 cm to you guys across the ocean) spider and dropped it on Johnny's arm. He was motionless, expressionless, totally stone still. After a few seconds, he said, "I suppose it's been defanged or whatever." She said, "Oh no, that would kill him." Still motionless, he said "Take it off! Take it off!!" and she did. A masterful exhibition of self control, I thought. I couldn't sleep for days thinking about the horror of it all! Off topic, but someone brought up spiders. I like 'em OK now. Maybe that long-ago TV show helped me get over it, or maybe it was the cave full of spiders a few years later. I could probably pet one now, if it was well behaved. Maybe... --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tangojuli at yahoo.com Mon Dec 6 10:46:51 2004 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Mon Dec 6 10:53:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] converting mineral database? In-Reply-To: <200412061700.iB6H0vN1030509@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20041206184651.19743.qmail@web60805.mail.yahoo.com> Tommy-- I think I have maybe 15 fields max. I shoulda broke locality up, but didn't (city, state) as I didn't think I would be trying to convert it. It's standard categories--mineral name, colloquial, formula, locality, city/state, acquired/found, date found, price, mineral family, chemical category, stuff like that. I could probably convert it myself--I have used the file import wizard, but usually from ACCESS to Excel or SPSS. I'll send you a sample file for you to examine. tina > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Tommy Armstrong > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 10:52 AM > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > > You can use sub and superscripts and added a character map to > enable you to pretty easily add them and the greek letters > and other characters to your descriptions and formula field. > As far as the excel, it definitely can be imported but need > to map the fields in the spreadsheet into the fields in the > database. If you could email me a sample of your spreadsheet, > I could answer the question on whether it would be a "clean > conversion". > > Access itself has an import wizard that is pretty darned > sophisticated. But I would like to try it out and see how > your fields "match up". > > For example we have separate fields for location > data--country, state, town, mine, etc. > > How many do you have in your excel file? > > If thousands, I could create code to parse the fields. > > Really need to see how you have yours set up. > > Also, if not straighforward, I am sure I could get he data > into the database on a per hour basis. Or could come up with > a conversion scenario for you. > > Tommy _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! – What will yours do? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From geenet2 at mchsi.com Mon Dec 6 11:11:47 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (geenet2@mchsi.com) Date: Mon Dec 6 11:12:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A tarantula-kebab Message-ID: <120620041911.20569.a2e@mchsi.com> ROTFL!! OK, now guys, It hurts to snort sweet tea up your nose. I should know better than to try to eat lunch and read my email at the same time. 8=)D I can eat rattlesnake. I can eat squirrel. I can eat raw oysters. I can eat octopus (fried) I can even eat sashimi (raw tuna I think) I've even eaten brine shrimp (betcha didn't know that, Glenn) but I draw the line at spiders, fried, roasted or otherwise. Or any other kind of bugs or worms for that matter. Jeanette > Ok, Rock, you asked for it! > Ladies, look away for a minute, this is gonna get ugly! > From hptdesigns at charter.net Mon Dec 6 11:30:45 2004 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Mon Dec 6 11:26:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <200412061700.iB6H0vN1030509@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <3k7897$jd0ij1@mxip12a.cluster1.charter.net> Gary is right of course. OpenOffice has a very good database program that is based on MySQL. And it is free. The whole genesis of this project was a custom app for a particular museum and for myself and my own collection. I am a good to very good Access programmer and feel much more comfortable using that medium. I actually like MS even with all its faults. And I could see no reason that anytime in my lifetime, I would not have some version of MS Office running on my machine. And as for a program for a major museum, there is really no reason why they would not have a copy. If they don't, they should. Granted that if you had to go out and purchase Office and a PC just to run this app., then the cost would be pretty high. But if you have Office and XP, then it is very reasonable. And since the file format of Access is almost universal, any migration in the future is pretty much assured. All documents and pictures are stored outside the main application as whatever kind of file you want, such as pdf, jpeg, mov, Word, Excel, html, xml, etc. and the app itself is simply a repository for the links to those files. Much like a website for those files. All files ARE however copied to a subfolder of the main app with an easy to understand naming convention so that when one wants to backup everything, one simply copies the main folder onto a CD or DVD or tape or whatever media is currently the choice. You can also create emails and word docs from within the program and copies of those messages are saved and attached to the specimen so that it is fairly easy to track all correspondence associated with the specimen. This is not of course to be used instead of Outlook, Eudora, or whatever email client you like to use, but just for correspondence that you want associated in the database. It has a very simple contact manager for such correspondences but should not be construed to take the place of a real contact management system such as OutLook. It does support multiple collections and has search screens for pictures and documents for either the actual specimen or for library pics and docs. Library pics are for example pictures of similar species but not actually in the individuals collection. Say for example you have a wulfenite from Alhumada and while searching the web you run across other wulfenites. You can save those and put them into the "picture library". When you enter your specimen into the database (or later) you can then attach these ancillary pics to that specimen or to as many as you want. The same goes for documents. Say for example you subscribe to MinRec and there is an article that is about a location or occurrence that you want to associate with specimens in your collection. You can scan that article (perfectly legal for your own personal use), save it as a pdf file or tiff file, and then associate that article with all the specimens in your collection that are pertinent. I am currently working on a more seamless way of scanning using Paperport, but it is not really necessary to actually save a file. The main advantage of Paperport is that it will create pdf docs that can be annotated and manipulated. And it is darn reasonable for what it does. I am very excited about the full text search free program from copernic because you can use it to index all those library docs that you have saved and be able to pull them up immediately. It can index and search any doc on your pc or any doc in any folder. Since when using my program, the docs and pics actually get copied into a subfolder of the main app, you can easily search with copernic just those things in that subfolder. I had always wanted to include this in the app, but the add-in tools were expensive. Access itself can do it for text, but not for pdf and word doc and html files. This pretty much solves all those problems even though a bit kludgy. You can also link to a file on the web or on your pc without copying it, but who is to say that 10 years or even two days from now that that file will exist or have the same path. Web files change constantly. On the location tab, you can click the MD button and it send you to the appropriate page on Mindats site and you can bring up maps on mapquest, topozone, terraserver and elevation maps on the National Geographic Map Machine if the lat long is saved. It will also convert lat/longs from deg-min-sec to decimals for saving in the field. On the description tab, you can automatically open up mineralweb.com to the appropriate mineral and review all the data available there. It also has a little utility for adding non-standard characters such as sub scripts and super scripts and greek letters and math symbols while entering text. But the main reason I decided on using Access is the built in filter by form function that allows one to pretty much return and set of records based on just about any field on the form itself. This is a MS Access function and can only be used if app is running under Access and does not work if running under an executable. To duplicate this very powerful function would have required many, many, many hours of programming and probably would still not as been as robust. The same goes for the query builder screens and the report generating functions. With a very simple understanding of Access you can create your own specific queries and reports (labels, etc.)to just your specifications. You can also add your own parameters to the record for those that are not included in the field list--such as Dana Number, Strunz Number, etc. We decided that that was not really necessary since they are readily available on the very good online databases especially mineralweb.com. If one wants that info, one could easily save the webpage as an mht file and then add it to the library. Then attach that library document to the specimen. Total time for all that about 30 seconds--I just did just that to test it. Then you have all the data about that species that you will probably always need -- as mineralweb is simply an awesome resource. I do not feel it my job to duplicate its functionality (even if I could, which I could not). However, the advantage of actually saving a copy on your machine is that it is available even if you have no internet access or perhaps the site is no longer in existance. Tommy Armstrong "Creativity is the marvelous capacity to grasp distinct realities and draw a spark from their juxtaposition." Max Ernst > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Gary Brown > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 12:01 PM > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > > I'm not sure if it would work, but OpenOffice might be a > good, low-cost solution. Low cost, as in "free". Access can > be migrated and used, I believe, with OpenOFfice. See: > > http://www.openoffice.org/product/dbase.html > > It all depends on how the databases are set up. > > GcB > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Tommy > > Armstrong > > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 10:52 AM > > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors' > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > > > > You can use sub and superscripts and added a character map > to enable > > you to pretty easily add them and the greek letters and other > > characters to your descriptions and formula field. > > As far as the excel, it definitely can be imported but need > to map the > > fields in the spreadsheet into the fields in the database. If you > > could email me a sample of your spreadsheet, I could answer the > > question on whether it would be a "clean conversion". > > > > Access itself has an import wizard that is pretty darned > > sophisticated. But I would like to try it out and see how > your fields > > "match up". > > > > For example we have separate fields for location > data--country, state, > > town, mine, etc. > > > > How many do you have in your excel file? > > > > If thousands, I could create code to parse the fields. > > > > Really need to see how you have yours set up. > > > > Also, if not straighforward, I am sure I could get he data into the > > database on a per hour basis. Or could come up with a conversion > > scenario for you. > > > > Tommy > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From afox at drizzle.com Mon Dec 6 11:27:49 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Mon Dec 6 11:27:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] [OT] Place to Crash in Edinburgh? Message-ID: Okay, so I apologize for being off-topic. I get one freebee, don't I? So, I booked a 6 day trip to Scotland (Edinburgh) over the Christmas Holiday. I, however, neglected to find a place to stay after the trip (the 29th and 30th). Apparently, this Hogsmanay thing is pretty popular... Now, I did manage to make the best, and find lodgings in Edinburgh on the 29th, and in Glasgow on the 30th and 31st. However, I'd love to stay in Edinburgh the extra day, and then head down to Glasgow on the 31st. So, for you UKers on the list (yeah, there aren't many...), if you've got a place and wouldn't mind a rockhound crashing for a night (the 30th), let me know via private email. And I apologize for being off topic! Thanks! Aaron Fox Rockhounds Admin -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From nmartin at bbn.com Mon Dec 6 11:09:43 2004 From: nmartin at bbn.com (Nathan C. Martin II) Date: Mon Dec 6 11:30:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20041205210228.01f400d0@mail.adelphia.net> References: <84132B61-4720-11D9-87AE-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20041206135645.01f36f88@po2.bbn.com> Sally (and other list members), Below is an article I recent wrote for my club newsletter (Boston Mineral Club). Lithos appears to be a free downloadable program that has some interesting features. Note, however, I have not yet tested it extensively. If you try it let me know what you think so that I will know how strongly to recommend it. If anyone else on the list has used it I would appreciate learning of your experiences with it. Nate Martin Lexington, MA Mining the Internet by Nate Martin I recently came across a free program for mineral collection cataloging. It is called Lithos, and has been developed by some German collectors (Karl G?nter W?nsch & Micaela Pantke). Below is my rewrite of the description that was on their website. I have downloaded the program and given it enough of a cursory examination to think it may be useful (but have not yet completely checked it out to see how well it works). Given how long it might take me to do that, I thought I should at least let you know that it exists. If you try it and develop some opinions about it (good or bad) please write a follow-up article to mine. What is Lithos? Lithos is a software tool to keep track of your mineral collection. It is available for Windows 95/98/ME and Windows NT/2000. The current version is 2.3. It seems to be free for the downloading at http://www.lithos-mineralien.de/. The current version of Lithos offers the following features: ? An integrated Database with all IMA acknowledged mineral species up to December of 2000. The information available for each species includes name, crystal system, crystal class, hardness, density, color, streak color, cleavage, fracture and crystal grid parameters. - Links from over 1000 trade names, old or obsolete names, and mineral groups to the currently acknowledged species. - Quick identification of mineral species based on physical properties with powerful search capabilities. - Over 1000 crystal drawings of approx. 600 species. - A database for your own collection. Keep track of the specimen in your collection and where they come from. - Search facilities for your own collection that permit the following operations: -- listing all localities from which you have a specific mineral species, -- listing all specimens from a locality or region, and -- listing all specimens in a given storage space. -- of course, all of this only works after you have catalogued your collection using Lithos. - Printing out labels using numerous formats. - Note that whenever you need to enter a mineral name inside Lithos there is an assistant that helps to prevent casual spelling errors. A full bilingual version of Lithos 2.3 (German & English) is available for download at http://www.lithos-mineralien.de/. The download consists of a single zipped file (lithos2000.zip) that is 886 kb in size and unzips to create 13 files requiring a total of 3.56 Mb of additional disk space. To install the version of Lithos just unzip the file lithos2000.zip into a subdirectory and create a shortcut to the program lithos_en.exe. If you also want to try out the German language version create a shortcut to lithos_de.exe. At 09:14 PM 12/5/2004, you wrote: >Hi, friends, you all intimidate me with your great vaults of rocks, not to >mention laundry rooms and bathrooms, and I imagine they are all properly >catalogued, too. Well, mostly. > >Since I'm at the beginning I'd like to tackle doing a proper database >thingie before things get out of hand. I searched the archives, but only >found info from several years back, at which time folks were wondering if >something new had come along. And since that was close to five years >back, I thought I'd ask. I've seen a few propietary programs listed, on >the internet, and I wonder if you have any recommendations. That is, if >you were starting all over now, is there one you'd use? > >I'd like something that would also make labels, of course... including >ones for micromounts. Hope I'm not asking for too much. > >The discussion on spiders reminds me that many years ago in the hazy, >strange days that were the 'sixties, a friend of mine had given me a Herk >positioned in a little vug (are they still vugs when they are that small?) >and I had my trusty 10x loupe out examining it. I am lost in admiration >of the herk, which of course looked gigantic up close, when I turned the >stone a bit and a grub of some sort, long dead, dropped into my field of >view. It looked as big as Godzilla, at 10x, and I screeched and dropped >everything in my lap, and then felt so damned foolish -- but it was pretty >funny... > >Best, >Sally --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From bigbobauburn at mindspring.com Mon Dec 6 12:22:51 2004 From: bigbobauburn at mindspring.com (Bob and Mary Stevens) Date: Mon Dec 6 12:23:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] snake story Message-ID: <01a901c4dbd1$71e72cc0$5095aec7@DBMZTG21> Back in the mid sixty's, Henry Barwood and I were collecting pegmatite phosphates at the Williams Prospect in Coosa County, Alabama. I hit a large rock with my rock hammer and heard a hissing noise like what is made by a rattlesnake. Henry and I took turns hitting the rock trying to get it to leave since it was in our way. It didn't leave so we got ready to turn the rock over and get rid of it. Well it turned out to be a puff adder, a snake who spreads it's neck and hisses like a cobra. After a good laugh we removed the snake from our hole and began to dig. Of course we didn't find much after that. A few years later I was mapping soils in a corn field when I walked up on another puff adder who you could tell had just swallowed something. I poked at it with my soil auger and when he raised his head, spread his neck and opened his mouth, a toad jumped out. I see toads hop all the time, usually four or five hops, stop, hop a few more times, stop, etc. This toad took off like a flash and didn't stop until I lost track of it. It probably told his grandchildren about the giant that saved his life. What a wonderful place this world is if people would stop and just look and enjoy. Bob ps I've been able to show my grandchildren how a puff adder will turn over on his back if he's threatened and if you flip him upright he'll turn over on his back again. They got a good laugh about it. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Gslrocks at aol.com Mon Dec 6 13:55:53 2004 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 6 14:01:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] snake story Message-ID: <8a.1b6d5fda.2ee62f69@aol.com> sounds like a Hognosed snake to me. Puff adders are venemous and not found in the US. Greg Lesinski GSLROCKS 4726 Porter Center Rd. Lewiston NY 14092 Fluorescent minerals, ultraviolet lamps and reference books website www.gslrocks.com GSLROCKS@AOL.COM 716-754-9729 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockcurrier at cs.com Wed Dec 15 14:48:12 2004 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Mon Dec 6 14:47:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Spiders and micromounts References: <200412061518.iB6FIGUp023060@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <012801c4e2f8$2868a550$bcf3a5d8@rock5> In my collection is a cherished micromount from Tiger, Arizona. It is a tiny spider house assembled from micro fragments of wulfenite and dioptase fragments. Rock From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Mon Dec 6 13:06:12 2004 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Mon Dec 6 15:07:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Spiders and micromounts References: <200412061518.iB6FIGUp023060@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <012801c4e2f8$2868a550$bcf3a5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <005301c4dbd7$6f3f7da0$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> One of the coolest finds I've made was a vacant caddis fly larva case made entirely from almandine garnet at Emerald Creek, ID. Unfortunately, I left it on my dashboard and it disintegrated after a few weeks. I suppose this could also go on the "Lack of Counterspace" thread. I have to clear off the dashboard every now and then when I can't read the speedometer any more! John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rock Currier" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 4:48 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Spiders and micromounts > In my collection is a cherished micromount from Tiger, Arizona. It is a tiny > spider house assembled from micro fragments of wulfenite and dioptase > fragments. > Rock > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From tim at orerockon.com Mon Dec 6 15:47:35 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Dec 6 15:47:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 50 ton erratic In-Reply-To: References: <8A439E3A-4551-11D9-8713-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041206074058.02dcfa68@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041206154512.02d71ed0@mail.spiritone.com> I have never used an entire 11 lb. bag. I would guess that to crack a boulder of jasper the size I have used it on required about a pound in 3 holes. I would think it is cost-effective if the Dust Devil miners are using it in lieu of explosives, which they are licensed to have and use. At 09:25 AM 12/6/2004, you wrote: >Tim, > >That figure of $35 for an 11 pound bag of Dexpan doesn't sound too bad. >Any idea how that equates to the real world of using it several holes >across a boulder? I would think that it might add up to be kind of >expensive for a commercial operation of mining minerals if you had to use >it often, but for an occasional job for us rabid non-professionals who >don't have blasting licenses it might be a great thing to use on occasion. > >Regards, > >Lanny Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.6 - Release Date: 12/5/2004 From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Mon Dec 6 14:16:37 2004 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Mon Dec 6 16:17:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Europe References: <200412061518.iB6FIGUp023060@bubbleator.drizzle.com><012801c4e2f8$2868a550$bcf3a5d8@rock5> <005301c4dbd7$6f3f7da0$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <000c01c4dbe1$479fdc40$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Hi - this is John's wife Julie. A website client I have that rents apartments in Europe has given us a two week vacation to pretty much anywhere they go. John and I have never been off of the N. American continent, for rockhounding, or anything else! I'm interested in Italy for a lot of reasons (hearty wines, pasta, seafood, pasta, archeology, pasta) and so we were thinking of choosing N. Tuscany, S. Tuscany or Umbria. On the other hand, rockhounding-wise, we might be better off in an area like Ticino in Switzerland. They also go to various other places throughout Europe. Can someone enlighten us on what there is to collect in Italy, and where, or another place they go (www.untours.com) that would be a cool rockhounding trip? We're not married to Switzerland, we just don't have a real good handle on European geography, so I don't know what is found where, and how far it is from any particular place! lol Any guidance would be appreciated... Julie John here, Sorry for the redundant post but we still haven't a clue here. Been chatting on mindat looking for ideas. John From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Mon Dec 6 16:29:20 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Mon Dec 6 16:29:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? References: <84132B61-4720-11D9-87AE-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <5.2.0.9.2.20041206135645.01f36f88@po2.bbn.com> Message-ID: <006201c4dbf3$cc5ded20$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> It's too late for me! I don't have time to enter all of my catalogued specimens on a database. I started it in 1979 with a typewriter. I have been entering them on my computer in Word for the last few years. Between my fossils, minerals and rocks, if it took one minute per specimen to fill out the data record, it would take about 270 hours enter all the specimens in my collection. Frankly, I'd rather be out collecting! I created a Filemaker database for the collections at the park where I work. I have entered some 1,500 records since 1994. There I add new records each winter when I have time to do collections management. I have been entering the Troost mineral catalogue on a separate database I created for it as another winter project. Since 1994, I have entered nearly 12,000 records! Only about 1,000 to go! The Troost collection is the 2nd oldest mineral collection in the U.S. (ca. 1810 - 1850). Eventually, the database will be made available to those who would like to learn about early 19th century collecting. It will also help identify many of the specimens with missing catalogue numbers. Alan P.S. I don't mean to be a party pooper, but I think we've beaten the spider thread (pun intended) into the ground. It says "A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" - not spider afficiandos! How about more rocks and less arachnids? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nathan C. Martin II" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? Sally (and other list members), Below is an article I recent wrote for my club newsletter (Boston Mineral Club). Lithos appears to be a free downloadable program that has some interesting features. Note, however, I have not yet tested it extensively. If you try it let me know what you think so that I will know how strongly to recommend it. If anyone else on the list has used it I would appreciate learning of your experiences with it. Nate Martin Lexington, MA Mining the Internet by Nate Martin I recently came across a free program for mineral collection cataloging. It is called Lithos, and has been developed by some German collectors (Karl G?nter W?nsch & Micaela Pantke). Below is my rewrite of the description that was on their website. I have downloaded the program and given it enough of a cursory examination to think it may be useful (but have not yet completely checked it out to see how well it works). Given how long it might take me to do that, I thought I should at least let you know that it exists. If you try it and develop some opinions about it (good or bad) please write a follow-up article to mine. What is Lithos? Lithos is a software tool to keep track of your mineral collection. It is available for Windows 95/98/ME and Windows NT/2000. The current version is 2.3. It seems to be free for the downloading at http://www.lithos-mineralien.de/. The current version of Lithos offers the following features: ? An integrated Database with all IMA acknowledged mineral species up to December of 2000. The information available for each species includes name, crystal system, crystal class, hardness, density, color, streak color, cleavage, fracture and crystal grid parameters. - Links from over 1000 trade names, old or obsolete names, and mineral groups to the currently acknowledged species. - Quick identification of mineral species based on physical properties with powerful search capabilities. - Over 1000 crystal drawings of approx. 600 species. - A database for your own collection. Keep track of the specimen in your collection and where they come from. - Search facilities for your own collection that permit the following operations: -- listing all localities from which you have a specific mineral species, -- listing all specimens from a locality or region, and -- listing all specimens in a given storage space. -- of course, all of this only works after you have catalogued your collection using Lithos. - Printing out labels using numerous formats. - Note that whenever you need to enter a mineral name inside Lithos there is an assistant that helps to prevent casual spelling errors. A full bilingual version of Lithos 2.3 (German & English) is available for download at http://www.lithos-mineralien.de/. The download consists of a single zipped file (lithos2000.zip) that is 886 kb in size and unzips to create 13 files requiring a total of 3.56 Mb of additional disk space. To install the version of Lithos just unzip the file lithos2000.zip into a subdirectory and create a shortcut to the program lithos_en.exe. If you also want to try out the German language version create a shortcut to lithos_de.exe. At 09:14 PM 12/5/2004, you wrote: >Hi, friends, you all intimidate me with your great vaults of rocks, not to >mention laundry rooms and bathrooms, and I imagine they are all properly >catalogued, too. Well, mostly. > >Since I'm at the beginning I'd like to tackle doing a proper database >thingie before things get out of hand. I searched the archives, but only >found info from several years back, at which time folks were wondering if >something new had come along. And since that was close to five years back, >I thought I'd ask. I've seen a few propietary programs listed, on the >internet, and I wonder if you have any recommendations. That is, if you >were starting all over now, is there one you'd use? > >I'd like something that would also make labels, of course... including >ones for micromounts. Hope I'm not asking for too much. > >The discussion on spiders reminds me that many years ago in the hazy, >strange days that were the 'sixties, a friend of mine had given me a Herk >positioned in a little vug (are they still vugs when they are that small?) >and I had my trusty 10x loupe out examining it. I am lost in admiration of >the herk, which of course looked gigantic up close, when I turned the stone >a bit and a grub of some sort, long dead, dropped into my field of view. >It looked as big as Godzilla, at 10x, and I screeched and dropped >everything in my lap, and then felt so damned foolish -- but it was pretty >funny... > >Best, >Sally --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Mon Dec 6 16:34:34 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Mon Dec 6 16:34:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Spiders... Bird nests and micromounts References: <200412061518.iB6FIGUp023060@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <012801c4e2f8$2868a550$bcf3a5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <008301c4dbf4$86f2d1a0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I took pictures of one of two killdeer nests I saw in Rosiclare, Illinois made of small chips of yellow fluorite and white calcite. Not practical to collect those nests! (Believe it or not you need a fish & wildlife permit to collect bird nests. But let's not start a new thread on that subject!) Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rock Currier" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 5:48 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Spiders and micromounts > In my collection is a cherished micromount from Tiger, Arizona. It is a > tiny > spider house assembled from micro fragments of wulfenite and dioptase > fragments. > Rock > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Mon Dec 6 16:54:01 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Mon Dec 6 16:53:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral locality photos Message-ID: <009901c4dbf7$3e43c3d0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I have been busy posting photos of collecting sites on the www.mindat.org web site. So far, I have posted images of these localities: Beryl Pit, Quadeville, Ontario Corydon Crushed Stone Quarry, Corydon, Indiana Hastie's Quarry, Cave in Rock, Illinois Lavender Open Pit, Bisbee, Arizona (okay so I didn't collect here...) Maumee Quarry, Maumee, Ohio Old Jim Mine, Crittenden Co., Kentucky Princess Sodalite Mine, Bancroft, Ontario Rose Quartz Pit, Quadeville, Ontario I've got a number of other localities, but need to scan the pictures first. I've also posted mineral photos from the above localities, as well as Halls Gap, Kentucky. I hope all mineral collectors on this listserve are aware of this web site, because it is a great clearinghouse for mineral information! Consider contributing photos -- it's not hard to do. I was cleaning an Old Jim mine smithsonite I found during the FM symposium last October. One specimen was buried (for 100 years) and it cleaned up to reveal a pinkish, yellow and orange botryoidal specimen. Beautiful!!! Alan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From hptdesigns at charter.net Mon Dec 6 17:16:07 2004 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Mon Dec 6 17:11:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <006201c4dbf3$cc5ded20$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <3khj1l$dv5r08@mxip09a.cluster1.charter.net> I have to agree that entering data into a database is incredibly tedious but for good collection management probably does require some sort of catalog. Doing it by hand is also very time consuming. Imputting it into Word, although not a database, with the advent of text searching engines is pretty good--at least you can find a specimen or location with relative ease. I would highly recommend downloading the Copernic Desktop Search program (free) and have it index your word files. Once indexed (probably about 10 minutes), you can then just about instantaneously search for word occurrences using boolean operators. Just a thought. I would be interested in seeing the Troost catalog once you get it finished. With OCR software, it is now relatively easy to get typed documents into electronic form for indexing and searching. Tommy Armstrong "Creativity is the marvelous capacity to grasp distinct realities and draw a spark from their juxtaposition." Max Ernst > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Alan Goldstein > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 7:29 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > > It's too late for me! I don't have time to enter all of my > catalogued specimens on a database. I started it in 1979 with > a typewriter. I have been entering them on my computer in > Word for the last few years. Between my fossils, minerals and > rocks, if it took one minute per specimen to fill out the > data record, it would take about 270 hours enter all the > specimens in my collection. Frankly, I'd rather be out collecting! > > I created a Filemaker database for the collections at the > park where I work. > I have entered some 1,500 records since 1994. There I add new > records each winter when I have time to do collections management. > > I have been entering the Troost mineral catalogue on a > separate database I created for it as another winter project. > Since 1994, I have entered nearly 12,000 records! Only about > 1,000 to go! The Troost collection is the 2nd oldest mineral > collection in the U.S. (ca. 1810 - 1850). Eventually, the > database will be made available to those who would like to > learn about early 19th century collecting. It will also help > identify many of the specimens with missing catalogue numbers. > > Alan > P.S. I don't mean to be a party pooper, but I think we've > beaten the spider thread (pun intended) into the ground. It > says "A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" - not > spider afficiandos! How about more rocks and less arachnids? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nathan C. Martin II" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 2:09 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > > > Sally (and other list members), > > Below is an article I recent wrote for my club newsletter > (Boston Mineral > Club). Lithos appears to be a free downloadable program that has some > interesting features. Note, however, I have not yet tested > it extensively. > > If you try it let me know what you think so that I will know > how strongly > to recommend it. > > If anyone else on the list has used it I would appreciate > learning of your > experiences with it. > > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > > Mining the Internet by Nate Martin > > I recently came across a free program for mineral collection > cataloging. It is called Lithos, and has been developed by > some German > collectors (Karl G?nter W?nsch & Micaela Pantke). Below is > my rewrite of > the description that was on their website. I have downloaded > the program > and given it enough of a cursory examination to think it may > be useful (but > have not yet completely checked it out to see how well it > works). Given > how long it might take me to do that, I thought I should at > least let you > know that it exists. If you try it and develop some opinions about it > (good or bad) please write a follow-up article to mine. > > What is Lithos? Lithos is a software tool to keep track of > your mineral > collection. It is available for Windows 95/98/ME and Windows > NT/2000. The > current version is 2.3. It seems to be free for the downloading at > http://www.lithos-mineralien.de/. > > The current version of Lithos offers the following features: > > ? An integrated Database with all IMA acknowledged > mineral species > up to December of 2000. The information available for each > species includes > name, crystal system, crystal class, hardness, density, color, streak > color, cleavage, fracture and crystal grid parameters. > > - Links from over 1000 trade names, old or obsolete names, > and mineral > groups to the currently acknowledged species. > - Quick identification of mineral species based on physical > properties > with powerful search capabilities. > - Over 1000 crystal drawings of approx. 600 species. > - A database for your own collection. Keep track of the > specimen in your > collection and where they come from. > - Search facilities for your own collection that permit the following > operations: > -- listing all localities from which you have a > specific mineral > species, > -- listing all specimens from a locality or region, and > -- listing all specimens in a given storage space. > -- of course, all of this only works after you have > catalogued your > collection using Lithos. > - Printing out labels using numerous formats. > - Note that whenever you need to enter a mineral name inside > Lithos there > is an assistant that helps to prevent casual spelling errors. > > A full bilingual version of Lithos 2.3 (German & English) is > available for > download at > http://www.lithos-mineralien .de/. The > download consists of a single zipped file (lithos2000.zip) > that is 886 kb > in size and unzips to create 13 files requiring a total of 3.56 Mb of > additional disk space. > > To install the version of Lithos just unzip the file > lithos2000.zip into a > subdirectory and create a shortcut to the program > lithos_en.exe. If you > also want to try out the German language version create a shortcut to > lithos_de.exe. > > > At 09:14 PM 12/5/2004, you wrote: > >Hi, friends, you all intimidate me with your great vaults of > rocks, not to > >mention laundry rooms and bathrooms, and I imagine they are > all properly > >catalogued, too. Well, mostly. > > > >Since I'm at the beginning I'd like to tackle doing a proper > database > >thingie before things get out of hand. I searched the > archives, but only > >found info from several years back, at which time folks were > wondering if > >something new had come along. And since that was close to > five years back, > >I thought I'd ask. I've seen a few propietary programs > listed, on the > >internet, and I wonder if you have any recommendations. > That is, if you > >were starting all over now, is there one you'd use? > > > >I'd like something that would also make labels, of course... > including > >ones for micromounts. Hope I'm not asking for too much. > > > >The discussion on spiders reminds me that many years ago in > the hazy, > >strange days that were the 'sixties, a friend of mine had > given me a Herk > >positioned in a little vug (are they still vugs when they > are that small?) > >and I had my trusty 10x loupe out examining it. I am lost > in admiration of > >the herk, which of course looked gigantic up close, when I > turned the stone > >a bit and a grub of some sort, long dead, dropped into my > field of view. > >It looked as big as Godzilla, at 10x, and I screeched and dropped > >everything in my lap, and then felt so damned foolish -- but > it was pretty > >funny... > > > >Best, > >Sally > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From Gslrocks at aol.com Mon Dec 6 17:57:57 2004 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 6 17:58:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral locality photos Message-ID: <6a.4a0687f3.2ee66825@aol.com> i have numerous pictures of the GTC, Gouveneur Talc Mines in Balmat, Talcville and Harrisville, Zinc Corporation of America Mines ZCA "now Ont Zinc" Balmat, Edwards, Pierrepont (including documenting the reclamation of the mine last year) and the Hyatt location in Talcville. In fact i wrote to mindat.org a while back about a number of minerals that are not in their database that came from those locations and got no response or interest returned in adding to their resources. I have amassed a number of fluorescent and daylight reference specimens from the different mines for study and preservation. Greg Lesinski GSLROCKS 4726 Porter Center Rd. Lewiston NY 14092 Fluorescent minerals, ultraviolet lamps and reference books website www.gslrocks.com GSLROCKS@AOL.COM 716-754-9729 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Mon Dec 6 18:49:06 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Mon Dec 6 18:48:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral locality photos References: <6a.4a0687f3.2ee66825@aol.com> Message-ID: <001401c4dc07$51f4b550$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I found the only was to get queries answered was by posting them their message board. I got a quick response. E-mailing the webmaster is useless. Apparently he is a "globetrotter" and I don't mean a basketball player... Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 8:57 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] mineral locality photos >i have numerous pictures of the GTC, Gouveneur Talc Mines in Balmat, > Talcville and Harrisville, Zinc Corporation of America Mines ZCA "now Ont > Zinc" > Balmat, Edwards, Pierrepont (including documenting the reclamation of the > mine last > year) and the Hyatt location in Talcville. > In fact i wrote to mindat.org a while back about a number of minerals that > are not in their database that came from those locations and got no > response or > interest returned in adding to their resources. I have amassed a number of > fluorescent and daylight reference specimens from the different mines for > study > and preservation. > > > Greg Lesinski > GSLROCKS > 4726 Porter Center Rd. > Lewiston NY > 14092 > Fluorescent minerals, ultraviolet lamps and reference books > website www.gslrocks.com > GSLROCKS@AOL.COM > 716-754-9729 > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From jaybates at rcn.com Mon Dec 6 18:53:30 2004 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Mon Dec 6 18:49:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 50 ton erratic References: <8A439E3A-4551-11D9-8713-000393AC22E6@lrream.com><6.2.0.14.2.20041206074058.02dcfa68@mail.spiritone.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041206154512.02d71ed0@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <000701c4dc07$ef361fc0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Tim, my club SFGMS has a rhodonite mine. We have been using an electric hammer drill, portable genertor, and wedges and shims to break off pieces of boulders. We have started to run out of small pieces and need to break up some large boulders, like 3 or 4 feet in diameter. Do you have any suggestions and what equipment we need. That Dexpan looks good. Maybe we need a more agressive type drill. Any suggestions? Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 3:47 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 50 ton erratic > I have never used an entire 11 lb. bag. I would guess that to crack a > boulder of jasper the size I have used it on required about a pound in 3 > holes. I would think it is cost-effective if the Dust Devil miners are > using it in lieu of explosives, which they are licensed to have and use. > > At 09:25 AM 12/6/2004, you wrote: > > >Tim, > > > >That figure of $35 for an 11 pound bag of Dexpan doesn't sound too bad. > >Any idea how that equates to the real world of using it several holes > >across a boulder? I would think that it might add up to be kind of > >expensive for a commercial operation of mining minerals if you had to use > >it often, but for an occasional job for us rabid non-professionals who > >don't have blasting licenses it might be a great thing to use on occasion. > > > >Regards, > > > >Lanny > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.6 - Release Date: 12/5/2004 > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Mon Dec 6 19:52:39 2004 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Mon Dec 6 19:54:36 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Active volcanoes Message-ID: <011301c4dc10$330e9e40$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> While surfing around the site Kitty shared I happened across this one: http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vw.html It has lots of good info, but I am most intrigued by the active volcano postings with current updates from all over the world. Manam, Papua New Guinea has just been evacuated! Check it out if you like! Glenn From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Mon Dec 6 18:54:21 2004 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Mon Dec 6 20:07:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] snake story References: <8a.1b6d5fda.2ee62f69@aol.com> Message-ID: <001f01c4dc12$460e7090$e34227c4@privatehome> Also had never heard of puff adders in the USA. Worthwhile to check in a "snake book" Horst (from the southern tip of Africa where I have yet to see a puff adder in the wild, although it is pretty common in South Africa)----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:55 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] snake story > sounds like a Hognosed snake to me. Puff adders are venemous and not found > in > the US. > > > Greg Lesinski > GSLROCKS > 4726 Porter Center Rd. > Lewiston NY > 14092 > Fluorescent minerals, ultraviolet lamps and reference books > website www.gslrocks.com > GSLROCKS@AOL.COM > 716-754-9729 > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Dec 6 20:15:44 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Dec 6 20:12:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Dexpan & Club Mine {was: 50 ton erratic} References: <8A439E3A-4551-11D9-8713-000393AC22E6@lrream.com><6.2.0.14.2.20041206074058.02dcfa68@mail.spiritone.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041206154512.02d71ed0@mail.spiritone.com> <000701c4dc07$ef361fc0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <41B52DB6.6D91@Tomaszewski.net> Way too cool! A Club with their own Mine. As for your boulders, local help is better than email. Check your yellow pages for the local 'concrete cutting and breaking' company, 'commercial builder' or the local 'demolition and salvage' company. These folks drill holes in concrete and/or rock daily. They probably have the portable equipment you could rent by the day (complete with skilled operator) to drill adequate holes in anything; I expect most will share knowledge so you can do it yourself. The Dexpan spec sheet will tell you how big and how far apart to drill holes. But think of the fun you could have putting in a drill pattern to leave a cube at the boulder center that is just small enough that you can still carry it out -- to cut a monster rhodonite sphere. A Club with their own Mine. Amazing! Kreigh jaybates wrote: > > Tim, my club SFGMS has a rhodonite mine. We have been using an electric > hammer drill, portable genertor, and wedges and shims to break off pieces of > boulders. We have started to run out of small pieces and need to break up > some large boulders, like 3 or 4 feet in diameter. Do you have any > suggestions and what equipment we need. That Dexpan looks good. Maybe we > need a more agressive type drill. Any suggestions? Jay > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Fisher" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 3:47 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 50 ton erratic > > > I have never used an entire 11 lb. bag. I would guess that to crack a > > boulder of jasper the size I have used it on required about a pound in 3 > > holes. I would think it is cost-effective if the Dust Devil miners are > > using it in lieu of explosives, which they are licensed to have and use. > > > > At 09:25 AM 12/6/2004, you wrote: > > > > >Tim, > > > > > >That figure of $35 for an 11 pound bag of Dexpan doesn't sound too bad. > > >Any idea how that equates to the real world of using it several holes > > >across a boulder? I would think that it might add up to be kind of > > >expensive for a commercial operation of mining minerals if you had to > use > > >it often, but for an occasional job for us rabid non-professionals who > > >don't have blasting licenses it might be a great thing to use on > occasion. > > > > > >Regards, > > > > > >Lanny > > > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From Gslrocks at aol.com Mon Dec 6 20:21:24 2004 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 6 20:21:33 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] snake story Message-ID: most likely a Southern Hognosed snake. I ran 4 pet shops for 12 years and also wholesaled reptiles for 4-5 years of that time. so i have seen literally thousands of tarantulas scorpions etc from all over, and collected and sold many animals from north america and other countries. The thing i thought funniest was how much people loved cuban hissing beetles...basically a jumbo cockroach! for pets! Greg --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Mon Dec 6 21:36:19 2004 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Linda Rasmussen) Date: Mon Dec 6 21:37:10 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Dexpan & Club Mine {was: 50 ton erratic} References: <8A439E3A-4551-11D9-8713-000393AC22E6@lrream.com><6.2.0.14.2.20041206074058.02dcfa68@mail.spiritone.com><6.2.0.14.2.20041206154512.02d71ed0@mail.spiritone.com><000701c4dc07$ef361fc0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <41B52DB6.6D91@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <016d01c4dc1e$af2e6740$6c5fe842@pavilion> Hi Kreigh, A Boise Idaho Rock Club owns there own Fire Opal mine, its called the Wangdoodle mine. most of the gems are from vug's and quite nice with bright fire. I have even seen black Opal with fire come out of there and there outstanding, you have to be in the club to mine or I believe a member can take in a friend to. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: Kreigh Tomaszewski To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 9:15 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Dexpan & Club Mine {was: 50 ton erratic} > Way too cool! A Club with their own Mine. > > As for your boulders, local help is better than email. > > Check your yellow pages for the local 'concrete cutting and breaking' > company, 'commercial builder' or the local 'demolition and salvage' > company. These folks drill holes in concrete and/or rock daily. They > probably have the portable equipment you could rent by the day (complete > with skilled operator) to drill adequate holes in anything; I expect > most will share knowledge so you can do it yourself. The Dexpan spec > sheet will tell you how big and how far apart to drill holes. > > But think of the fun you could have putting in a drill pattern to leave > a cube at the boulder center that is just small enough that you can > still carry it out -- to cut a monster rhodonite sphere. > > A Club with their own Mine. Amazing! > > Kreigh > > > > > jaybates wrote: > > > > Tim, my club SFGMS has a rhodonite mine. We have been using an electric > > hammer drill, portable genertor, and wedges and shims to break off pieces of > > boulders. We have started to run out of small pieces and need to break up > > some large boulders, like 3 or 4 feet in diameter. Do you have any > > suggestions and what equipment we need. That Dexpan looks good. Maybe we > > need a more agressive type drill. Any suggestions? Jay > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Tim Fisher" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 3:47 PM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 50 ton erratic > > > > > I have never used an entire 11 lb. bag. I would guess that to crack a > > > boulder of jasper the size I have used it on required about a pound in 3 > > > holes. I would think it is cost-effective if the Dust Devil miners are > > > using it in lieu of explosives, which they are licensed to have and use. > > > > > > At 09:25 AM 12/6/2004, you wrote: > > > > > > >Tim, > > > > > > > >That figure of $35 for an 11 pound bag of Dexpan doesn't sound too bad. > > > >Any idea how that equates to the real world of using it several holes > > > >across a boulder? I would think that it might add up to be kind of > > > >expensive for a commercial operation of mining minerals if you had to > > use > > > >it often, but for an occasional job for us rabid non-professionals who > > > >don't have blasting licenses it might be a great thing to use on > > occasion. > > > > > > > >Regards, > > > > > > > >Lanny > > > > > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > > > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From johnjold at comcast.net Mon Dec 6 22:48:49 2004 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Mon Dec 6 22:48:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 50 ton erratic In-Reply-To: <000701c4dc07$ef361fc0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> References: <8A439E3A-4551-11D9-8713-000393AC22E6@lrream.com><6.2.0.14.2.20041206074058.02dcfa68@mail.spiritone.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041206154512.02d71ed0@mail.spiritone.com> <000701c4dc07$ef361fc0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <0CCA73E6-481C-11D9-8D5E-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> On Dec 6, 2004, at 9:53 PM, jaybates wrote: > Tim, my club SFGMS has a rhodonite mine. We have been using an > electric > hammer drill, portable genertor, and wedges and shims to break off > pieces of > boulders. Do you mean an electric hammer drill or a rotary hammer? They are not the same animal. Rotary hammers are much more powerful. I have used a 1 1/2" Bosch rotary hammer in Little Falls dolomite at Diamond Acres near Fonda, New York (Herkimer Diamonds). I consider it to be a more valuable tool than my 20 lb Demolition Hammer. Wedges and shims (variously called pins and feathers or feathers and wedges in NY) are great for splitting large pieces. I got mine at Trow & Holden Co. in Barre Vt. I use 3/4 inch holes to split small boulders and 1 inch holes for larger pieces. I also carry 4 sets for 1 1/2 holes. These are used in the bedrock only. I have not yet seen a boulder that would need that size. When I talked to the people at Trow & Holden their advice was the smaller the hole the better. I love to show off the process to people who have not seen the method by splitting a large rock with no more than a 3 lb crack hammer. Replacement drills got cheaper now that the local Home Depot carries suitable carbide hammer drills. It is easier to go with the grain of the rock, if it has grain, but the force exerted by a good pattern of holes could break anything. A cube like that described by Kreigh would be possible but the wedges should be carefully pounded in, slowly increasing the pressure, giving the rock some time to react to the pressure before increasing it. Stop when the wedge rings and let it work. Rapidly banging away will result in sloppier splits. From jaybates at rcn.com Tue Dec 7 01:24:51 2004 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Tue Dec 7 01:21:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 50 ton erratic References: <8A439E3A-4551-11D9-8713-000393AC22E6@lrream.com><6.2.0.14.2.20041206074058.02dcfa68@mail.spiritone.com><6.2.0.14.2.20041206154512.02d71ed0@mail.spiritone.com><000701c4dc07$ef361fc0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <0CCA73E6-481C-11D9-8D5E-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000701c4dc3e$9b5c0a40$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> It is a Bosch rotary hammer. Also we use wedges and feathers. Some of the boulders are 4 and 5 feet in diameter. Some of the boulders are not rhodonite, so we need to move them out of the way. We cannot use heavy equipment as this is not a patent claim and we have endangered salamanders on the property. The Forest Service is quite sensitive to the salamanders. Is there something better than the bosch rotary hammer, without getting into pneumatic drills and air compressors. By the way if anyone is interested in rhodonite, once a year we invite other clubs to go with us to our claim and work it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Joldersma" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 50 ton erratic > > On Dec 6, 2004, at 9:53 PM, jaybates wrote: > > > Tim, my club SFGMS has a rhodonite mine. We have been using an > > electric > > hammer drill, portable genertor, and wedges and shims to break off > > pieces of > > boulders. > > > Do you mean an electric hammer drill or a rotary hammer? They are not > the > same animal. Rotary hammers are much more powerful. I have used a 1 > 1/2" > Bosch rotary hammer in Little Falls dolomite at Diamond Acres near > Fonda, > New York (Herkimer Diamonds). I consider it to be a more valuable tool > than > my 20 lb Demolition Hammer. Wedges and shims (variously called pins and > feathers or feathers and wedges in NY) are great for splitting large > pieces. > I got mine at Trow & Holden Co. in Barre Vt. I use 3/4 inch holes to > split small > boulders and 1 inch holes for larger pieces. I also carry 4 sets for 1 > 1/2 holes. > These are used in the bedrock only. I have not yet seen a boulder > that would > need that size. When I talked to the people at Trow & Holden their > advice was > the smaller the hole the better. I love to show off the process to > people who have > not seen the method by splitting a large rock with no more than a 3 lb > crack hammer. > Replacement drills got cheaper now that the local Home Depot carries > suitable > carbide hammer drills. It is easier to go with the grain of the rock, > if it has grain, > but the force exerted by a good pattern of holes could break anything. > A cube > like that described by Kreigh would be possible but the wedges should be > carefully pounded in, slowly increasing the pressure, giving the rock > some > time to react to the pressure before increasing it. Stop when the > wedge rings > and let it work. Rapidly banging away will result in sloppier splits. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 7 06:26:29 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Tue Dec 7 06:18:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] rhodonite mine (was 50 ton erratic) References: <8A439E3A-4551-11D9-8713-000393AC22E6@lrream.com><6.2.0.14.2.20041206074058.02dcfa68@mail.spiritone.com><6.2.0.14.2.20041206154512.02d71ed0@mail.spiritone.com><000701c4dc07$ef361fc0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com><0CCA73E6-481C-11D9-8D5E-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> <000701c4dc3e$9b5c0a40$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <000f01c4dc68$c11e1460$a9a5490c@pete> So, Jay, is that the San Francisco Gem and Mineral Society, or San Fernando, or ______ ? I'm not especially familiar with rhodonite from anywhere in (California??); perhaps it doesn't often make it out here, to the rest of the country. Here in Colorado we commonly see the massive pink material from the Sunnyside mine, Silverton CO, which is still known as rhodonite to most rockhounds, but was identified several decades ago as properly being pyroxmangite, a closely related pink manganese silicate mineral. ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 2:24 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 50 ton erratic > > > > Tim, my club SFGMS has a rhodonite mine. We have been using an > > > electric hammer drill, ...By the way if anyone is interested in rhodonite, once a year we invite other clubs to go with us to our claim and work it.... From jaybates at rcn.com Tue Dec 7 08:37:43 2004 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Tue Dec 7 08:34:06 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] rhodonite mine (was 50 ton erratic) References: <8A439E3A-4551-11D9-8713-000393AC22E6@lrream.com><6.2.0.14.2.20041206074058.02dcfa68@mail.spiritone.com><6.2.0.14.2.20041206154512.02d71ed0@mail.spiritone.com><000701c4dc07$ef361fc0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com><0CCA73E6-481C-11D9-8D5E-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net><000701c4dc3e$9b5c0a40$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <000f01c4dc68$c11e1460$a9a5490c@pete> Message-ID: <000c01c4dc7b$13a84720$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> That is the San Francisco Gem and Mineral Society. The mine is the Spider Mine which is familiar to most of the clubs in northern California. As far as I know, it is rhodonite. There is also some other mines in California, including one near Wildwood in southern California. Our club has made trips to Utah and Montana but not Colorado. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 6:26 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] rhodonite mine (was 50 ton erratic) > So, Jay, is that the San Francisco Gem and Mineral Society, or San Fernando, > or ______ ? > > I'm not especially familiar with rhodonite from anywhere in (California??); > perhaps it doesn't often make it out here, to the rest of the country. Here > in Colorado we commonly see the massive pink material from the Sunnyside > mine, Silverton CO, which is still known as rhodonite to most rockhounds, > but was identified several decades ago as properly being pyroxmangite, a > closely related pink manganese silicate mineral. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jaybates" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 2:24 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 50 ton erratic > > > > > > > Tim, my club SFGMS has a rhodonite mine. We have been using an > > > > electric hammer drill, ...By the way if anyone is interested in > rhodonite, once a year we invite other clubs to go with us to our claim and > work it.... > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From nmartin at bbn.com Tue Dec 7 08:55:09 2004 From: nmartin at bbn.com (Nathan C. Martin II) Date: Tue Dec 7 08:55:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Europe In-Reply-To: <000c01c4dbe1$479fdc40$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> References: <200412061518.iB6FIGUp023060@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <012801c4e2f8$2868a550$bcf3a5d8@rock5> <005301c4dbd7$6f3f7da0$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20041207113601.01ef1700@po2.bbn.com> Julie (and John), A few of years ago my wife and I went to Italy with a musical group and spent time in Padua, Bolzano and Venice. It was all pretty amazing and has given me many good memories including singing works by the Italian composer Palestrina in Saint Marks cathedral in Venice, but that is an answer to a different question. For rockhounding interests I would go back to Bolzano in a heartbeat. It lies in the Alto Adige region in northern Italy. The locals speak both German and Italian. The food is wonderful, the scenery is drop-dead georgeous and although I was not there long enough to collect anything but river rock I believe it has potential due to the specimens I saw in a museum in Padua. We were there in late April and I missed a local mineral swap/show by one day (Aaaaaarrrrgggggghhh!). I think I still have the brochure somewhere with some contact info for the organizers of the show. If you are serious about this region let me know and I will look for it. Here is a website that has some info on collecting in that area http://www.italianminerals.com/Zeoliti-siusi/zeolites-siusi.html I also recommend contacting the Alessandro Genazzani to see if he has other suggestions. Somewhere I have a club newsletter article that I wrote about the trip describing the University of Padua mineral museum I visited in Padua, the Natural History museum in Bolzano and various mineral stores I found in both Padua and Venice. If you are interested I will find it and send it too you. I envy your opportunity. I'm sure you will have a great time. Best regards, Nate Martin Lexington, MA At 05:16 PM 12/6/2004, you wrote: >Hi - this is John's wife Julie. > >A website client I have that rents apartments in Europe has given us a two >week vacation to pretty much anywhere they go. > >John and I have never been off of the N. American continent, for >rockhounding, or anything else! > >I'm interested in Italy for a lot of reasons (hearty wines, pasta, seafood, >pasta, archeology, pasta) and so we were thinking of choosing N. Tuscany, S. >Tuscany or Umbria. On the other hand, rockhounding-wise, we might be better >off in an area like Ticino in Switzerland. They also go to various other >places throughout Europe. Can someone enlighten us on what there is to >collect in Italy, and where, or another place they go (www.untours.com) that >would be a cool rockhounding trip? We're not married to Switzerland, we just >don't have a real good handle on European geography, so I don't know what is >found where, and how far it is from any particular place! lol > >Any guidance would be appreciated... > >Julie > >John here, > >Sorry for the redundant post but we still haven't a clue here. Been chatting >on mindat looking for ideas. > >John > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Dr. Nathan C. Martin Principal Scientist BBN Technologies Room 1/117, 50 Moulton Street, Cambridge, MA 02138 Phone: (617)873-3495 Office FAX: (617)873-2918 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Tue Dec 7 08:56:54 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Dec 7 08:56:50 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 50 ton erratic In-Reply-To: <0CCA73E6-481C-11D9-8D5E-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> References: <8A439E3A-4551-11D9-8713-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041206074058.02dcfa68@mail.spiritone.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041206154512.02d71ed0@mail.spiritone.com> <000701c4dc07$ef361fc0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <0CCA73E6-481C-11D9-8D5E-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041207085429.02e6a800@mail.spiritone.com> Rotary hammers are the way to go. You can rent one just about anywhere. 1/2" holes are plenty big. Invest in your own sintered diamond bit, carbide bits are too slow for impatient people like me :) At 10:48 PM 12/6/2004, you wrote: >On Dec 6, 2004, at 9:53 PM, jaybates wrote: > >>Tim, my club SFGMS has a rhodonite mine. We have been using an electric >>hammer drill, portable genertor, and wedges and shims to break off pieces of >>boulders. > > >Do you mean an electric hammer drill or a rotary hammer? They are not the >same animal. Rotary hammers are much more powerful. I have used a 1 1/2" >Bosch rotary hammer in Little Falls dolomite at Diamond Acres near Fonda, >New York (Herkimer Diamonds). I consider it to be a more valuable tool than >my 20 lb Demolition Hammer. Wedges and shims (variously called pins and >feathers or feathers and wedges in NY) are great for splitting large pieces. >I got mine at Trow & Holden Co. in Barre Vt. I use 3/4 inch holes to split >small >boulders and 1 inch holes for larger pieces. I also carry 4 sets for 1 >1/2 holes. >These are used in the bedrock only. I have not yet seen a boulder that would >need that size. When I talked to the people at Trow & Holden their advice was >the smaller the hole the better. I love to show off the process to >people who have >not seen the method by splitting a large rock with no more than a 3 lb >crack hammer. >Replacement drills got cheaper now that the local Home Depot carries suitable >carbide hammer drills. It is easier to go with the grain of the rock, if >it has grain, >but the force exerted by a good pattern of holes could break anything. >A cube >like that described by Kreigh would be possible but the wedges should be >carefully pounded in, slowly increasing the pressure, giving the rock some >time to react to the pressure before increasing it. Stop when the wedge rings >and let it work. Rapidly banging away will result in sloppier splits. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From tim at orerockon.com Tue Dec 7 09:02:29 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Dec 7 09:02:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Dexpan & Club Mine {was: 50 ton erratic} In-Reply-To: <41B52DB6.6D91@Tomaszewski.net> References: <8A439E3A-4551-11D9-8713-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041206074058.02dcfa68@mail.spiritone.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041206154512.02d71ed0@mail.spiritone.com> <000701c4dc07$ef361fc0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <41B52DB6.6D91@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041207085817.02e43f58@mail.spiritone.com> No one at any of the rental joints in Portland knows anything, they are monkeys hired to get the stuff out the door. It doesn't take a genius to drill a hole in a rock & pour water & powder into it. Splitting rocks is a matter of luck and experience. Unless you can find someone like the guy who did the job Aaron mentioned, you are on your own. And most of the clubs in the NW OR/SW WA area have their own claims or exclusive access to materials on industrial forest land. Mt. Hood had 3 or 4 claims at one time; now we are down to 1 (Fallen Tree thundereggs) and an "unofficial" claim (Lily pad jasper) that the BLM can't seem to figure out how to file on. We lost our Steens thunderegg claim when it was turned into a wilderness a few years ago. Wasn't worth the drive anyway. At 08:15 PM 12/6/2004, you wrote: >Way too cool! A Club with their own Mine. > >As for your boulders, local help is better than email. > >Check your yellow pages for the local 'concrete cutting and breaking' >company, 'commercial builder' or the local 'demolition and salvage' >company. These folks drill holes in concrete and/or rock daily. They >probably have the portable equipment you could rent by the day (complete >with skilled operator) to drill adequate holes in anything; I expect >most will share knowledge so you can do it yourself. The Dexpan spec >sheet will tell you how big and how far apart to drill holes. > >But think of the fun you could have putting in a drill pattern to leave >a cube at the boulder center that is just small enough that you can >still carry it out -- to cut a monster rhodonite sphere. > >A Club with their own Mine. Amazing! > >Kreigh > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site Owner, Fisher Fisheries, Ltd. nospam@OreRockOn.com WWW http://OreRockOn.com From tim at orerockon.com Tue Dec 7 09:04:37 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Dec 7 09:04:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Dexpan & Club Mine {was: 50 ton erratic} In-Reply-To: <016d01c4dc1e$af2e6740$6c5fe842@pavilion> References: <8A439E3A-4551-11D9-8713-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041206074058.02dcfa68@mail.spiritone.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041206154512.02d71ed0@mail.spiritone.com> <000701c4dc07$ef361fc0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <41B52DB6.6D91@Tomaszewski.net> <016d01c4dc1e$af2e6740$6c5fe842@pavilion> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041207090244.02e517f0@mail.spiritone.com> There is one "official" field trip each year to the Wangdoodle and the other Boise Club claims (I believe they have 3 or 4 now). Any NFMS club member can attend, AFAIK, for a small fee. They have a nice website - google it. At 09:36 PM 12/6/2004, you wrote: >Hi Kreigh, > >A Boise Idaho Rock Club owns there own Fire Opal mine, its called the >Wangdoodle mine. most of the gems are from vug's and quite nice with >bright fire. I have even seen black Opal with fire come out of there and >there outstanding, you have to be in the club to mine or I believe a member >can take in a friend to. > >Wayne >----- Original Message ----- >From: Kreigh Tomaszewski >To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > >Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 9:15 PM >Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Dexpan & Club Mine {was: 50 ton erratic} > > > > Way too cool! A Club with their own Mine. > > > > As for your boulders, local help is better than email. > > > > Check your yellow pages for the local 'concrete cutting and breaking' > > company, 'commercial builder' or the local 'demolition and salvage' > > company. These folks drill holes in concrete and/or rock daily. They > > probably have the portable equipment you could rent by the day (complete > > with skilled operator) to drill adequate holes in anything; I expect > > most will share knowledge so you can do it yourself. The Dexpan spec > > sheet will tell you how big and how far apart to drill holes. > > > > But think of the fun you could have putting in a drill pattern to leave > > a cube at the boulder center that is just small enough that you can > > still carry it out -- to cut a monster rhodonite sphere. > > > > A Club with their own Mine. Amazing! > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > jaybates wrote: > > > > > > Tim, my club SFGMS has a rhodonite mine. We have been using an electric > > > hammer drill, portable genertor, and wedges and shims to break off >pieces of > > > boulders. We have started to run out of small pieces and need to break >up > > > some large boulders, like 3 or 4 feet in diameter. Do you have any > > > suggestions and what equipment we need. That Dexpan looks good. Maybe we > > > need a more agressive type drill. Any suggestions? Jay > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Tim Fisher" > > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 3:47 PM > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 50 ton erratic > > > > > > > I have never used an entire 11 lb. bag. I would guess that to crack a > > > > boulder of jasper the size I have used it on required about a pound in >3 > > > > holes. I would think it is cost-effective if the Dust Devil miners are > > > > using it in lieu of explosives, which they are licensed to have and >use. > > > > > > > > At 09:25 AM 12/6/2004, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >Tim, > > > > > > > > > >That figure of $35 for an 11 pound bag of Dexpan doesn't sound too >bad. > > > > >Any idea how that equates to the real world of using it several holes > > > > >across a boulder? I would think that it might add up to be kind of > > > > >expensive for a commercial operation of mining minerals if you had >to > > > use > > > > >it often, but for an occasional job for us rabid non-professionals >who > > > > >don't have blasting licenses it might be a great thing to use on > > > occasion. > > > > > > > > > >Regards, > > > > > > > > > >Lanny > > > > > > > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > > > > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.6 - Release Date: 12/5/2004 Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From nmartin at bbn.com Tue Dec 7 09:22:21 2004 From: nmartin at bbn.com (Nathan C. Martin II) Date: Tue Dec 7 09:22:27 2004 Subject: Trow and Holden - was Re: [Rockhounds] 50 ton erratic In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041207085429.02e6a800@mail.spiritone.com> References: <0CCA73E6-481C-11D9-8D5E-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> <8A439E3A-4551-11D9-8713-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041206074058.02dcfa68@mail.spiritone.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041206154512.02d71ed0@mail.spiritone.com> <000701c4dc07$ef361fc0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <0CCA73E6-481C-11D9-8D5E-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20041207120503.01efcc10@po2.bbn.com> Having never met a tool I didn't like, I am enjoying this thread immensely and don't want to distract it. However the comment about Trow and Holden in Barre, VT reminded me of a recent good experience with them. About 5 or 6 years ago I bought some 7/8" carbide-tipped hand chisels from them. They were expensive but I soon learned to love them. Early this year while collecting at Eden Mills, VT the carbide tip finally fell out because the steel on either side of the tip had become completely worn away. I kept the tip and sent it and this ugly beat-up carcass of a chisel back to them with a request to fix it and let me know how much I owed them. The other day I got a box in the mail and inside was what looked like a brand new chisel but from its length I was pretty sure it was in fact the result of their reworking my old friend, trimming the mushroomed end and resetting the carbide tip. The invoice listed the cost to me as $00.00. They even paid to ship it back to me. In this day and age, it is really heartening to find a company that makes good products and works to keep customers happy. If you haven't yet completed your Christmas list you might want to include one of their carbide tipped chisels. When a regular steel chisel just bounces off the rock these carbide tipped chisels bite and cut - I absolutely love em. (and no, I don't have any connection to them other than a satisfied customer). Nate Martin Lexington, MA >>On Dec 6, 2004, at 9:53 PM, jaybates wrote: >> >>>Tim, my club SFGMS has a rhodonite mine. We have been using an electric >>>hammer drill, portable genertor, and wedges and shims to break off pieces of >>>boulders. >> >> >>Do you mean an electric hammer drill or a rotary hammer? They are not the >>same animal. Rotary hammers are much more powerful. I have used a 1 1/2" >>Bosch rotary hammer in Little Falls dolomite at Diamond Acres near Fonda, >>New York (Herkimer Diamonds). I consider it to be a more valuable tool than >>my 20 lb Demolition Hammer. Wedges and shims (variously called pins and >>feathers or feathers and wedges in NY) are great for splitting large pieces. >>I got mine at Trow & Holden Co. in Barre Vt. I use 3/4 inch holes to >>split small >>boulders and 1 inch holes for larger pieces. I also carry 4 sets for 1 >>1/2 holes. >>These are used in the bedrock only. I have not yet seen a boulder that >>would >>need that size. When I talked to the people at Trow & Holden their >>advice was >>the smaller the hole the better. I love to show off the process to >>people who have >>not seen the method by splitting a large rock with no more than a 3 lb >>crack hammer. >>Replacement drills got cheaper now that the local Home Depot carries suitable >>carbide hammer drills. It is easier to go with the grain of the rock, if >>it has grain, >>but the force exerted by a good pattern of holes could break anything. >>A cube >>like that described by Kreigh would be possible but the wedges should be >>carefully pounded in, slowly increasing the pressure, giving the rock some >>time to react to the pressure before increasing it. Stop when the wedge >>rings >>and let it work. Rapidly banging away will result in sloppier splits. > >Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com >Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From shm at tapnet.net Tue Dec 7 10:51:47 2004 From: shm at tapnet.net (SHM) Date: Tue Dec 7 10:51:57 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] museum donations In-Reply-To: <41AF8661.7010400@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <003001c4dc8d$d047ea90$bee4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Hi group, This is an old thread, but I'm just now getting my act together. Maurice noted that most museums "are really not interested in the average private collection". While true for some museums, there are many exceptions, so please don't cross museums off your list when planning what to do with your minerals. It all depends on how you wish them to be used. Maurice's comment applies most rigorously to those who wish their specimens to be placed on permanent display. However, museums have numerous uses for specimens besides public displays. For example, here at the Sterling Hill Mining Museum we require a constant influx of specimens for developing mineral kits for science teachers, and we have a growing collection of our own teaching materials. We also appreciate collections where the donor or seller is willing to have the specimens sold to generate revenue for the museum. Some collections have come our way with that express purpose: the donor realized that we would probably not keep the bulk of his collection, but it represented good sales stock, and was given to us with that purpose in mind. That is a thoughtful and useful gift, good for all concerned. We also accept collections of minerals we feel we cannot sell individually, or even by the flat, but which people might enjoy collecting on their own. These specimens we place in a big pile outdoors, where anybody can collect to their heart's content at $1/lb. You'd be surprised how many people will buy specimens at that price if they "collected" them themselves, but they wouldn't buy the same pieces, at the same prices, in our gift shop. Finally, we are always on the lookout for specimens that can simply be given away, to schools or children, or interested educators who wish to teach others about minerals, or to scout groups, etc. [Message to Kitty: watch your mailbox; we'll be sending stuff too] Bottom line: there are many other museums like ours, museums that use minerals for multiple purposes. We can use really high-end minerals for public display, really low-end ones for educational purposes, and everything in between. It would be a mistake to assume that museums are interested only in top-quality material, because many museums have educational and outreach functions, as well as public exhibits. The trick is to find out what a particular institution DOES want, whether it be a museum or school or club, so your collection can live on in a manner pleasing to you. Cheers- Earl Verbeek (Resident Geologist, Sterling Hill Mining Museum) -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Maurice de Graaf Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 4:17 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] museum donations I think that most musea are really not interested in the average private collection. Let's throw away your own pride and look at your own collection.... How many specimen are REALLY one of a kind ? Of my humble collection of about 4000 (mainly systematic) minerals are only a hand full of very rare species that could be of interest as study material. And even than, what can the Rock and Crystal museum is god know where do with a micromount of say Cejkaite? So when you donate your precious collection to a museum 99.9 if not 100% will end up in the museum storage facility. There it is only an addition to the bulk. It has to be archived and stored in boxes. It takes up time and room, thus money. From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Tue Dec 7 11:12:21 2004 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Tue Dec 7 11:12:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] museum donations In-Reply-To: <003001c4dc8d$d047ea90$bee4a5ce@D3JM7W21> References: <003001c4dc8d$d047ea90$bee4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <41B60095.4030407@xs4all.nl> Hi, Thanks for pointing that out. In my posting I was referring to donations to musea with the purpose of adding the specimen to the museum collection (either on display or 'backstage'). I understand that if a museum has other activities like a shop or educational function it is a different story. My main point is that I would like to see as many specimen as possible flow back to the collecting (or educational) community, instead of being stored in some depot for indefinite times. Cheers, Maurice SHM wrote: >Hi group, > >This is an old thread, but I'm just now getting my act together. > >Maurice noted that most museums "are really not interested in the average >private collection". While true for some museums, there are many >exceptions, so please don't cross museums off your list when planning what >to do with your minerals. It all depends on how you wish them to be used. > >Maurice's comment applies most rigorously to those who wish their specimens >to be placed on permanent display. However, museums have numerous uses for >specimens besides public displays. For example, here at the Sterling Hill >Mining Museum we require a constant influx of specimens for developing >mineral kits for science teachers, and we have a growing collection of our >own teaching materials. We also appreciate collections where the donor or >seller is willing to have the specimens sold to generate revenue for the >museum. Some collections have come our way with that express purpose: the >donor realized that we would probably not keep the bulk of his collection, >but it represented good sales stock, and was given to us with that purpose >in mind. That is a thoughtful and useful gift, good for all concerned. > >We also accept collections of minerals we feel we cannot sell individually, >or even by the flat, but which people might enjoy collecting on their own. >These specimens we place in a big pile outdoors, where anybody can collect >to their heart's content at $1/lb. You'd be surprised how many people will >buy specimens at that price if they "collected" them themselves, but they >wouldn't buy the same pieces, at the same prices, in our gift shop. > >Finally, we are always on the lookout for specimens that can simply be given >away, to schools or children, or interested educators who wish to teach >others about minerals, or to scout groups, etc. [Message to Kitty: watch >your mailbox; we'll be sending stuff too] Bottom line: there are many >other museums like ours, museums that use minerals for multiple purposes. >We can use really high-end minerals for public display, really low-end ones >for educational purposes, and everything in between. It would be a mistake >to assume that museums are interested only in top-quality material, because >many museums have educational and outreach functions, as well as public >exhibits. The trick is to find out what a particular institution DOES want, >whether it be a museum or school or club, so your collection can live on in >a manner pleasing to you. > > Cheers- Earl Verbeek (Resident Geologist, Sterling Hill Mining >Museum) > > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Maurice de Graaf >Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 4:17 PM >To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] museum donations > > >I think that most musea are really not interested in the average private >collection. Let's throw away your own pride and look at your own >collection.... How many specimen are REALLY one of a kind ? Of my >humble collection of about 4000 (mainly systematic) minerals are only a >hand full of very rare species that could be of interest as study >material. And even than, what can the Rock and Crystal museum is god >know where do with a micromount of say Cejkaite? >So when you donate your precious collection to a museum 99.9 if not >100% will end up in the museum storage facility. There it is only an >addition to the bulk. It has to be archived and stored in boxes. It >takes up time and room, thus money. > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From jabac at hal-pc.org Tue Dec 7 13:37:52 2004 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Tue Dec 7 12:35:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unrealistic fainthearted pebble-picking amateurs In-Reply-To: <002b01c4d74e$0ee62040$a0a6490c@pete> References: <000001c4d6a5$e60435c0$56b523d0@eoni.com> <002b01c4d74e$0ee62040$a0a6490c@pete> Message-ID: <1102455472.2724.0.camel@localhost> On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 20:32, Peter J. Modreski wrote: > You (Ann) will be amused to hear that your "I Resemble that Remark" line > kept bothering me, because I knew it sounded familiar, but I really couldn't > remember who it was from. I was thinking maybe W.C. Fields. (I guess I'm > just not an expert on famous comedy lines.) It finally bugged me enough > that I searched on the web for it, and after going through a whole lot of > "hits" where people USED the line but didn't make any reference to where it > originated, I finally figured it out--by one person who made reference to > "Curly", which of course gave it away. > > cheers, Pete It's likely that Curly got it from William Bendix who routinely used it on "The Life of Riley" in 1950's radio. john From johnjold at comcast.net Tue Dec 7 12:54:42 2004 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Tue Dec 7 12:54:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unrealistic fainthearted pebble-picking amateurs In-Reply-To: <1102455472.2724.0.camel@localhost> References: <000001c4d6a5$e60435c0$56b523d0@eoni.com> <002b01c4d74e$0ee62040$a0a6490c@pete> <1102455472.2724.0.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <381290BA-4892-11D9-8B39-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> I swear I remember that line from Groucho Marx in one of their 30's movies. On Dec 7, 2004, at 4:37 PM, john wrote: > On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 20:32, Peter J. Modreski wrote: >> You (Ann) will be amused to hear that your "I Resemble that Remark" >> line >> kept bothering me, because I knew it sounded familiar, but I really >> couldn't >> remember who it was from. I was thinking maybe W.C. Fields. (I >> guess I'm >> just not an expert on famous comedy lines.) It finally bugged me >> enough >> that I searched on the web for it, and after going through a whole >> lot of >> "hits" where people USED the line but didn't make any reference to >> where it >> originated, I finally figured it out--by one person who made >> reference to >> "Curly", which of course gave it away. >> >> cheers, Pete > > > It's likely that Curly got it from William Bendix who routinely used it > on "The Life of Riley" in 1950's radio. > > > john > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Dec 7 10:54:57 2004 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Tue Dec 7 12:55:54 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Europe References: <200412061518.iB6FIGUp023060@bubbleator.drizzle.com><012801c4e2f8$2868a550$bcf3a5d8@rock5><005301c4dbd7$6f3f7da0$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> <5.2.0.9.2.20041207113601.01ef1700@po2.bbn.com> Message-ID: <002301c4dc8e$46bd62e0$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Thanks Nate! I took a quick look at italianminerals.com and I'm getting excited! We're thinking of going in April so if the swap/show liturature is handy I'd be very interested. But, if you're like me, it's buried in a box somewhere so don't go to too much trouble. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nathan C. Martin II" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Europe > Julie (and John), > > A few of years ago my wife and I went to Italy with a musical group and > spent time in Padua, Bolzano and Venice. It was all pretty amazing and has > given me many good memories including singing works by the Italian composer > Palestrina in Saint Marks cathedral in Venice, but that is an answer to a > different question. > > For rockhounding interests I would go back to Bolzano in a heartbeat. It > lies in the Alto Adige region in northern Italy. The locals speak both > German and Italian. The food is wonderful, the scenery is drop-dead > georgeous and although I was not there long enough to collect anything but > river rock I believe it has potential due to the specimens I saw in a > museum in Padua. We were there in late April and I missed a local mineral > swap/show by one day (Aaaaaarrrrgggggghhh!). I think I still have the > brochure somewhere with some contact info for the organizers of the > show. If you are serious about this region let me know and I will look for it. > > Here is a website that has some info on collecting in that area > http://www.italianminerals.com/Zeoliti-siusi/zeolites-siusi.html I also > recommend contacting the > > Alessandro Genazzani to see if he has other suggestions. > > Somewhere I have a club newsletter article that I wrote about the trip > describing the University of Padua mineral museum I visited in Padua, the > Natural History museum in Bolzano and various mineral stores I found in > both Padua and Venice. If you are interested I will find it and send it > too you. > > I envy your opportunity. I'm sure you will have a great time. > > Best regards, > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA From bova at mindspring.com Tue Dec 7 13:37:57 2004 From: bova at mindspring.com (Carol Bova) Date: Tue Dec 7 13:35:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unrealistic fainthearted pebble-picking amateurs In-Reply-To: <381290BA-4892-11D9-8B39-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4265A8DC-4898-11D9-9D9B-000A95773806@mindspring.com> Possibly from A Day at the Races.. *g* Carol On Tuesday, December 7, 2004, at 03:54 PM, John Joldersma wrote: > I swear I remember that line from Groucho Marx in one of their 30's > movies. > > On Dec 7, 2004, at 4:37 PM, john wrote: > >> On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 20:32, Peter J. Modreski wrote: >>> You (Ann) will be amused to hear that your "I Resemble that Remark" >>> line >>> kept bothering me, because I knew it sounded familiar, but I really >>> couldn't >>> remember who it was from. I was thinking maybe W.C. Fields. (I >>> guess I'm >>> just not an expert on famous comedy lines.) It finally bugged me >>> enough >>> that I searched on the web for it, and after going through a whole >>> lot of >>> "hits" where people USED the line but didn't make any reference to >>> where it >>> originated, I finally figured it out--by one person who made >>> reference to >>> "Curly", which of course gave it away. >>> >>> cheers, Pete >> >> >> It's likely that Curly got it from William Bendix who routinely used >> it >> on "The Life of Riley" in 1950's radio. >> >> >> john >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From jabac at hal-pc.org Tue Dec 7 14:43:37 2004 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Tue Dec 7 13:41:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was:Briti... In-Reply-To: <20041205202157.570DBCB9DD0@delivery.infowest.com> References: <20041205202157.570DBCB9DD0@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: <1102459417.2724.15.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2004-12-05 at 14:22, Margaret Malm wrote: > But, Axel -- where's your compassion? [:>}} > Why would you want to kill it? It's just trying to go about its business. > Probably can't even see you. > > Margaret Amen to that. Spiders are one of our best defenses (tools?) against the rest of the insect world. They eat prodigious amounts of harmful (to us) critters. Wolf spiders and tarantulas are harmless, except for a species or two of tarantula in Durango, Mexico. The real nasty is the Brown Recluse. It's small and innocuous-looking; likes to hang out in trash and assorted accumulations; and it will climb into one's clothing and inflict a bite that becomes a boil; takes a long time to heal. Spiders are also one of the best indicators of ecological health. They are very sensitive to insecticides. So if you see a field full of spiders and webs, that area has been free of pesticides for some time. > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann > Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 11:49 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] > Re:unrealisticfaintheartedpebble-pickingamateur{was:Briti... > > PET ONE???? Bweuahhhhhhh THUMP.... (sound of me hitting floor > unconscious...) > > Uh? What happened... where am I??? > Oh yes... What??? PET ONE??? (Bweuahhhhhhh THUMP....) > > Uh? What happened... where am I??? > Oh yes... What??? PET ONE??? (Bweuahhhhhhh THUMP....) > > Uh? What happened... where am I??? > Oh yes... What??? PET ONE??? (Bweuahhhhhhh THUMP....) > > Uh? What happened... where am I??? > Oh yes... What??? PET ONE??? (Bweuahhhhhhh THUMP....) > > Uh? What happened... where am I??? > Oh yes... What??? PET ONE??? (Bweuahhhhhhh THUMP....) > > etc.......etc....... > > The correct term for the above is "recursive fainting", I think. > > I'll pet one all right! With an anvil smack on the head... uh... thingy with > the legs attached to it. > > Axel That's successive fainting, Axel. "recursive fainting" would be instances nested within each other. By the time you got to the "etc....etc...", you would probably be under for several weeks! Not to mention that it would constitute a nightmare, wouldn't it? Hmmm... do I detect a slight hint of Arachnophobia here? john From jpjunk at mc.net Tue Dec 7 14:40:13 2004 From: jpjunk at mc.net (jjunkroski) Date: Tue Dec 7 14:37:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A dumb newbie queation re: A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <3k7897$jd0ij1@mxip12a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: Can I get it to work on a Mac? Junk on 12/6/04 1:30 PM, Tommy Armstrong at hptdesigns@charter.net wrote: > Gary is right of course. OpenOffice has a very good database program that is > based on MySQL. And it is free. > > The whole genesis of this project was a custom app for a particular museum > and for myself and my own collection. I am a good to very good Access > programmer and feel much more comfortable using that medium. I actually like > MS even with all its faults. And I could see no reason that anytime in my > lifetime, I would not have some version of MS Office running on my machine. > And as for a program for a major museum, there is really no reason why they > would not have a copy. If they don't, they should. Granted that if you had > to go out and purchase Office and a PC just to run this app., then the cost > would be pretty high. But if you have Office and XP, then it is very > reasonable. And since the file format of Access is almost universal, any > migration in the future is pretty much assured. All documents and pictures > are stored outside the main application as whatever kind of file you want, > such as pdf, jpeg, mov, Word, Excel, html, xml, etc. and the app itself is > simply a repository for the links to those files. Much like a website for > those files. All files ARE however copied to a subfolder of the main app > with an easy to understand naming convention so that when one wants to > backup everything, one simply copies the main folder onto a CD or DVD or > tape or whatever media is currently the choice. You can also create emails > and word docs from within the program and copies of those messages are saved > and attached to the specimen so that it is fairly easy to track all > correspondence associated with the specimen. This is not of course to be > used instead of Outlook, Eudora, or whatever email client you like to use, > but just for correspondence that you want associated in the database. It has > a very simple contact manager for such correspondences but should not be > construed to take the place of a real contact management system such as > OutLook. > > It does support multiple collections and has search screens for pictures and > documents for either the actual specimen or for library pics and docs. > Library pics are for example pictures of similar species but not actually in > the individuals collection. Say for example you have a wulfenite from > Alhumada and while searching the web you run across other wulfenites. You > can save those and put them into the "picture library". When you enter your > specimen into the database (or later) you can then attach these ancillary > pics to that specimen or to as many as you want. The same goes for > documents. Say for example you subscribe to MinRec and there is an article > that is about a location or occurrence that you want to associate with > specimens in your collection. You can scan that article (perfectly legal for > your own personal use), save it as a pdf file or tiff file, and then > associate that article with all the specimens in your collection that are > pertinent. I am currently working on a more seamless way of scanning using > Paperport, but it is not really necessary to actually save a file. The main > advantage of Paperport is that it will create pdf docs that can be annotated > and manipulated. And it is darn reasonable for what it does. I am very > excited about the full text search free program from copernic because you > can use it to index all those library docs that you have saved and be able > to pull them up immediately. It can index and search any doc on your pc or > any doc in any folder. Since when using my program, the docs and pics > actually get copied into a subfolder of the main app, you can easily search > with copernic just those things in that subfolder. I had always wanted to > include this in the app, but the add-in tools were expensive. Access itself > can do it for text, but not for pdf and word doc and html files. This pretty > much solves all those problems even though a bit kludgy. > > You can also link to a file on the web or on your pc without copying it, but > who is to say that 10 years or even two days from now that that file will > exist or have the same path. Web files change constantly. > > On the location tab, you can click the MD button and it send you to the > appropriate page on Mindats site and you can bring up maps on mapquest, > topozone, terraserver and elevation maps on the National Geographic Map > Machine if the lat long is saved. It will also convert lat/longs from > deg-min-sec to decimals for saving in the field. > > On the description tab, you can automatically open up mineralweb.com to the > appropriate mineral and review all the data available there. > > It also has a little utility for adding non-standard characters such as sub > scripts and super scripts and greek letters and math symbols while entering > text. > > But the main reason I decided on using Access is the built in filter by form > function that allows one to pretty much return and set of records based on > just about any field on the form itself. This is a MS Access function and > can only be used if app is running under Access and does not work if running > under an executable. To duplicate this very powerful function would have > required many, many, many hours of programming and probably would still not > as been as robust. > > The same goes for the query builder screens and the report generating > functions. With a very simple understanding of Access you can create your > own specific queries and reports (labels, etc.)to just your specifications. > > You can also add your own parameters to the record for those that are not > included in the field list--such as Dana Number, Strunz Number, etc. We > decided that that was not really necessary since they are readily available > on the very good online databases especially mineralweb.com. If one wants > that info, one could easily save the webpage as an mht file and then add it > to the library. Then attach that library document to the specimen. Total > time for all that about 30 seconds--I just did just that to test it. Then > you have all the data about that species that you will probably always need > -- as mineralweb is simply an awesome resource. I do not feel it my job to > duplicate its functionality (even if I could, which I could not). However, > the advantage of actually saving a copy on your machine is that it is > available even if you have no internet access or perhaps the site is no > longer in existance. > > Tommy Armstrong > > "Creativity is the marvelous capacity to grasp distinct realities and draw a > spark from their juxtaposition." > Max Ernst > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Gary Brown >> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 12:01 PM >> To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors' >> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? >> >> I'm not sure if it would work, but OpenOffice might be a >> good, low-cost solution. Low cost, as in "free". Access can >> be migrated and used, I believe, with OpenOFfice. See: >> >> http://www.openoffice.org/product/dbase.html >> >> It all depends on how the databases are set up. >> >> GcB >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >>> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Tommy >>> Armstrong >>> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 10:52 AM >>> To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>> collectors' >>> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? >>> >>> You can use sub and superscripts and added a character map >> to enable >>> you to pretty easily add them and the greek letters and other >>> characters to your descriptions and formula field. >>> As far as the excel, it definitely can be imported but need >> to map the >>> fields in the spreadsheet into the fields in the database. If you >>> could email me a sample of your spreadsheet, I could answer the >>> question on whether it would be a "clean conversion". >>> >>> Access itself has an import wizard that is pretty darned >>> sophisticated. But I would like to try it out and see how >> your fields >>> "match up". >>> >>> For example we have separate fields for location >> data--country, state, >>> town, mine, etc. >>> >>> How many do you have in your excel file? >>> >>> If thousands, I could create code to parse the fields. >>> >>> Really need to see how you have yours set up. >>> >>> Also, if not straighforward, I am sure I could get he data into the >>> database on a per hour basis. Or could come up with a conversion >>> scenario for you. >>> >>> Tommy >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Dec 7 12:54:34 2004 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Tue Dec 7 14:55:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Halite References: <20041204140823.79969.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003b01c4dc9e$f9da6700$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> tinaintundra and\or tango juli and list, Sorry for the lapse but I've been busy digging firewood out of the snow. Thanks kindly for all of the info re. halite. John From hptdesigns at charter.net Tue Dec 7 18:53:52 2004 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Tue Dec 7 18:49:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A dumb newbie queation re: A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3k77vd$e39t2j@mxip10a.cluster1.charter.net> Well, the Access file format is almost universal but lo and behold MS has not created Access for the Mac. However, my son is a Mac support technician and informs me that the next version of Office for Mac is going to include Virtual PC. Or you might already have a copy. And since the company that developed Virtual PC was bought by MS, I have a good feeling that it will be tweaked to run MS programs. From what I understand, it essentially installs a full version of XP on the MAC and then translates to OS 10.2. Hell if it works (and he is supposed to get a copy soon) I might say bye bye to pc's as long as I can use Access. I understand that Excel for Mac as well as Word are superior to those for the pc. tommy > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of jjunkroski > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 5:40 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: [Rockhounds] A dumb newbie queation re: A good > mineral database? > > > > Can I get it to work on a Mac? > > Junk > > on 12/6/04 1:30 PM, Tommy Armstrong at hptdesigns@charter.net wrote: > > > Gary is right of course. OpenOffice has a very good > database program > > that is based on MySQL. And it is free. > > > > The whole genesis of this project was a custom app for a particular > > museum and for myself and my own collection. I am a good to > very good > > Access programmer and feel much more comfortable using that > medium. I > > actually like MS even with all its faults. And I could see > no reason > > that anytime in my lifetime, I would not have some version > of MS Office running on my machine. > > And as for a program for a major museum, there is really no reason > > why they would not have a copy. If they don't, they should. Granted > > that if you had to go out and purchase Office and a PC just to run > > this app., then the cost would be pretty high. But if you > have Office > > and XP, then it is very reasonable. And since the file format of > > Access is almost universal, any migration in the future is > pretty much > > assured. All documents and pictures are stored outside the main > > application as whatever kind of file you want, such as pdf, > jpeg, mov, > > Word, Excel, html, xml, etc. and the app itself is simply a > repository > > for the links to those files. Much like a website for those > files. All > > files ARE however copied to a subfolder of the main app > with an easy > > to understand naming convention so that when one wants to backup > > everything, one simply copies the main folder onto a CD or > DVD or tape > > or whatever media is currently the choice. You can also > create emails > > and word docs from within the program and copies of those > messages are > > saved and attached to the specimen so that it is fairly > easy to track > > all correspondence associated with the specimen. This is > not of course > > to be used instead of Outlook, Eudora, or whatever email client you > > like to use, but just for correspondence that you want > associated in > > the database. It has a very simple contact manager for such > > correspondences but should not be construed to take the > place of a real contact management system such as OutLook. > > > > It does support multiple collections and has search screens for > > pictures and documents for either the actual specimen or > for library pics and docs. > > Library pics are for example pictures of similar species but not > > actually in the individuals collection. Say for example you have a > > wulfenite from Alhumada and while searching the web you run across > > other wulfenites. You can save those and put them into the "picture > > library". When you enter your specimen into the database (or later) > > you can then attach these ancillary pics to that specimen or to as > > many as you want. The same goes for documents. Say for example you > > subscribe to MinRec and there is an article that is about a > location > > or occurrence that you want to associate with specimens in your > > collection. You can scan that article (perfectly legal for your own > > personal use), save it as a pdf file or tiff file, and then > associate > > that article with all the specimens in your collection that are > > pertinent. I am currently working on a more seamless way of > scanning > > using Paperport, but it is not really necessary to actually save a > > file. The main advantage of Paperport is that it will > create pdf docs > > that can be annotated and manipulated. And it is darn > reasonable for > > what it does. I am very excited about the full text search free > > program from copernic because you can use it to index all those > > library docs that you have saved and be able to pull them up > > immediately. It can index and search any doc on your pc or > any doc in > > any folder. Since when using my program, the docs and pics actually > > get copied into a subfolder of the main app, you can easily search > > with copernic just those things in that subfolder. I had > always wanted > > to include this in the app, but the add-in tools were > expensive. Access itself can do it for text, but not for pdf > and word doc and html files. This pretty much solves all > those problems even though a bit kludgy. > > > > You can also link to a file on the web or on your pc > without copying > > it, but who is to say that 10 years or even two days from now that > > that file will exist or have the same path. Web files > change constantly. > > > > On the location tab, you can click the MD button and it send you to > > the appropriate page on Mindats site and you can bring up maps on > > mapquest, topozone, terraserver and elevation maps on the National > > Geographic Map Machine if the lat long is saved. It will > also convert > > lat/longs from deg-min-sec to decimals for saving in the field. > > > > On the description tab, you can automatically open up > mineralweb.com > > to the appropriate mineral and review all the data available there. > > > > It also has a little utility for adding non-standard > characters such > > as sub scripts and super scripts and greek letters and math symbols > > while entering text. > > > > But the main reason I decided on using Access is the built > in filter > > by form function that allows one to pretty much return and set of > > records based on just about any field on the form itself. > This is a MS > > Access function and can only be used if app is running under Access > > and does not work if running under an executable. To duplicate this > > very powerful function would have required many, many, many > hours of > > programming and probably would still not as been as robust. > > > > The same goes for the query builder screens and the report > generating > > functions. With a very simple understanding of Access you > can create > > your own specific queries and reports (labels, etc.)to just > your specifications. > > > > You can also add your own parameters to the record for > those that are > > not included in the field list--such as Dana Number, Strunz Number, > > etc. We decided that that was not really necessary since they are > > readily available on the very good online databases especially > > mineralweb.com. If one wants that info, one could easily save the > > webpage as an mht file and then add it to the library. Then attach > > that library document to the specimen. Total time for all > that about > > 30 seconds--I just did just that to test it. Then you have all the > > data about that species that you will probably always need > > -- as mineralweb is simply an awesome resource. I do not feel it my > > job to duplicate its functionality (even if I could, which I could > > not). However, the advantage of actually saving a copy on > your machine > > is that it is available even if you have no internet access > or perhaps > > the site is no longer in existance. > > > > Tommy Armstrong > > > > "Creativity is the marvelous capacity to grasp distinct > realities and > > draw a spark from their juxtaposition." > > Max Ernst > > > > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Gary Brown > >> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 12:01 PM > >> To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >> collectors' > >> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > >> > >> I'm not sure if it would work, but OpenOffice might be a good, > >> low-cost solution. Low cost, as in "free". Access can be > migrated > >> and used, I believe, with OpenOFfice. See: > >> > >> http://www.openoffice.org/product/dbase.html > >> > >> It all depends on how the databases are set up. > >> > >> GcB > >> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > >>> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Tommy > >>> Armstrong > >>> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 10:52 AM > >>> To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >>> collectors' > >>> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > >>> > >>> You can use sub and superscripts and added a character map > >> to enable > >>> you to pretty easily add them and the greek letters and other > >>> characters to your descriptions and formula field. > >>> As far as the excel, it definitely can be imported but need > >> to map the > >>> fields in the spreadsheet into the fields in the database. If you > >>> could email me a sample of your spreadsheet, I could answer the > >>> question on whether it would be a "clean conversion". > >>> > >>> Access itself has an import wizard that is pretty darned > >>> sophisticated. But I would like to try it out and see how > >> your fields > >>> "match up". > >>> > >>> For example we have separate fields for location > >> data--country, state, > >>> town, mine, etc. > >>> > >>> How many do you have in your excel file? > >>> > >>> If thousands, I could create code to parse the fields. > >>> > >>> Really need to see how you have yours set up. > >>> > >>> Also, if not straighforward, I am sure I could get he > data into the > >>> database on a per hour basis. Or could come up with a conversion > >>> scenario for you. > >>> > >>> Tommy > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From hammerron at yahoo.com Tue Dec 7 18:55:51 2004 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Tue Dec 7 18:55:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A dumb newbie queation re: A good mineral database? References: <3k77vd$e39t2j@mxip10a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <003401c4dcd1$716470e0$82e2fc40@j9yhq01> I wonder if openoffice.org has a mac database there (if they do, bet its pretty good and free) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tommy Armstrong" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 9:53 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] A dumb newbie queation re: A good mineral database? > Well, the Access file format is almost universal but lo and behold MS has > not created Access for the Mac. However, my son is a Mac support technician > and informs me that the next version of Office for Mac is going to include > Virtual PC. Or you might already have a copy. And since the company that > developed Virtual PC was bought by MS, I have a good feeling that it will be > tweaked to run MS programs. From what I understand, it essentially installs > a full version of XP on the MAC and then translates to OS 10.2. Hell if it > works (and he is supposed to get a copy soon) I might say bye bye to pc's as > long as I can use Access. I understand that Excel for Mac as well as Word > are superior to those for the pc. > > tommy > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of jjunkroski > > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 5:40 PM > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Subject: [Rockhounds] A dumb newbie queation re: A good > > mineral database? > > > > > > > > Can I get it to work on a Mac? > > > > Junk > > > > on 12/6/04 1:30 PM, Tommy Armstrong at hptdesigns@charter.net wrote: > > > > > Gary is right of course. OpenOffice has a very good > > database program > > > that is based on MySQL. And it is free. > > > > > > The whole genesis of this project was a custom app for a particular > > > museum and for myself and my own collection. I am a good to > > very good > > > Access programmer and feel much more comfortable using that > > medium. I > > > actually like MS even with all its faults. And I could see > > no reason > > > that anytime in my lifetime, I would not have some version > > of MS Office running on my machine. > > > And as for a program for a major museum, there is really no reason > > > why they would not have a copy. If they don't, they should. Granted > > > that if you had to go out and purchase Office and a PC just to run > > > this app., then the cost would be pretty high. But if you > > have Office > > > and XP, then it is very reasonable. And since the file format of > > > Access is almost universal, any migration in the future is > > pretty much > > > assured. All documents and pictures are stored outside the main > > > application as whatever kind of file you want, such as pdf, > > jpeg, mov, > > > Word, Excel, html, xml, etc. and the app itself is simply a > > repository > > > for the links to those files. Much like a website for those > > files. All > > > files ARE however copied to a subfolder of the main app > > with an easy > > > to understand naming convention so that when one wants to backup > > > everything, one simply copies the main folder onto a CD or > > DVD or tape > > > or whatever media is currently the choice. You can also > > create emails > > > and word docs from within the program and copies of those > > messages are > > > saved and attached to the specimen so that it is fairly > > easy to track > > > all correspondence associated with the specimen. This is > > not of course > > > to be used instead of Outlook, Eudora, or whatever email client you > > > like to use, but just for correspondence that you want > > associated in > > > the database. It has a very simple contact manager for such > > > correspondences but should not be construed to take the > > place of a real contact management system such as OutLook. > > > > > > It does support multiple collections and has search screens for > > > pictures and documents for either the actual specimen or > > for library pics and docs. > > > Library pics are for example pictures of similar species but not > > > actually in the individuals collection. Say for example you have a > > > wulfenite from Alhumada and while searching the web you run across > > > other wulfenites. You can save those and put them into the "picture > > > library". When you enter your specimen into the database (or later) > > > you can then attach these ancillary pics to that specimen or to as > > > many as you want. The same goes for documents. Say for example you > > > subscribe to MinRec and there is an article that is about a > > location > > > or occurrence that you want to associate with specimens in your > > > collection. You can scan that article (perfectly legal for your own > > > personal use), save it as a pdf file or tiff file, and then > > associate > > > that article with all the specimens in your collection that are > > > pertinent. I am currently working on a more seamless way of > > scanning > > > using Paperport, but it is not really necessary to actually save a > > > file. The main advantage of Paperport is that it will > > create pdf docs > > > that can be annotated and manipulated. And it is darn > > reasonable for > > > what it does. I am very excited about the full text search free > > > program from copernic because you can use it to index all those > > > library docs that you have saved and be able to pull them up > > > immediately. It can index and search any doc on your pc or > > any doc in > > > any folder. Since when using my program, the docs and pics actually > > > get copied into a subfolder of the main app, you can easily search > > > with copernic just those things in that subfolder. I had > > always wanted > > > to include this in the app, but the add-in tools were > > expensive. Access itself can do it for text, but not for pdf > > and word doc and html files. This pretty much solves all > > those problems even though a bit kludgy. > > > > > > You can also link to a file on the web or on your pc > > without copying > > > it, but who is to say that 10 years or even two days from now that > > > that file will exist or have the same path. Web files > > change constantly. > > > > > > On the location tab, you can click the MD button and it send you to > > > the appropriate page on Mindats site and you can bring up maps on > > > mapquest, topozone, terraserver and elevation maps on the National > > > Geographic Map Machine if the lat long is saved. It will > > also convert > > > lat/longs from deg-min-sec to decimals for saving in the field. > > > > > > On the description tab, you can automatically open up > > mineralweb.com > > > to the appropriate mineral and review all the data available there. > > > > > > It also has a little utility for adding non-standard > > characters such > > > as sub scripts and super scripts and greek letters and math symbols > > > while entering text. > > > > > > But the main reason I decided on using Access is the built > > in filter > > > by form function that allows one to pretty much return and set of > > > records based on just about any field on the form itself. > > This is a MS > > > Access function and can only be used if app is running under Access > > > and does not work if running under an executable. To duplicate this > > > very powerful function would have required many, many, many > > hours of > > > programming and probably would still not as been as robust. > > > > > > The same goes for the query builder screens and the report > > generating > > > functions. With a very simple understanding of Access you > > can create > > > your own specific queries and reports (labels, etc.)to just > > your specifications. > > > > > > You can also add your own parameters to the record for > > those that are > > > not included in the field list--such as Dana Number, Strunz Number, > > > etc. We decided that that was not really necessary since they are > > > readily available on the very good online databases especially > > > mineralweb.com. If one wants that info, one could easily save the > > > webpage as an mht file and then add it to the library. Then attach > > > that library document to the specimen. Total time for all > > that about > > > 30 seconds--I just did just that to test it. Then you have all the > > > data about that species that you will probably always need > > > -- as mineralweb is simply an awesome resource. I do not feel it my > > > job to duplicate its functionality (even if I could, which I could > > > not). However, the advantage of actually saving a copy on > > your machine > > > is that it is available even if you have no internet access > > or perhaps > > > the site is no longer in existance. > > > > > > Tommy Armstrong > > > > > > "Creativity is the marvelous capacity to grasp distinct > > realities and > > > draw a spark from their juxtaposition." > > > Max Ernst > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > > Gary Brown > > >> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 12:01 PM > > >> To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > >> collectors' > > >> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > > >> > > >> I'm not sure if it would work, but OpenOffice might be a good, > > >> low-cost solution. Low cost, as in "free". Access can be > > migrated > > >> and used, I believe, with OpenOFfice. See: > > >> > > >> http://www.openoffice.org/product/dbase.html > > >> > > >> It all depends on how the databases are set up. > > >> > > >> GcB > > >> > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > >>> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > >>> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Tommy > > >>> Armstrong > > >>> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 10:52 AM > > >>> To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > >>> collectors' > > >>> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > > >>> > > >>> You can use sub and superscripts and added a character map > > >> to enable > > >>> you to pretty easily add them and the greek letters and other > > >>> characters to your descriptions and formula field. > > >>> As far as the excel, it definitely can be imported but need > > >> to map the > > >>> fields in the spreadsheet into the fields in the database. If you > > >>> could email me a sample of your spreadsheet, I could answer the > > >>> question on whether it would be a "clean conversion". > > >>> > > >>> Access itself has an import wizard that is pretty darned > > >>> sophisticated. But I would like to try it out and see how > > >> your fields > > >>> "match up". > > >>> > > >>> For example we have separate fields for location > > >> data--country, state, > > >>> town, mine, etc. > > >>> > > >>> How many do you have in your excel file? > > >>> > > >>> If thousands, I could create code to parse the fields. > > >>> > > >>> Really need to see how you have yours set up. > > >>> > > >>> Also, if not straighforward, I am sure I could get he > > data into the > > >>> database on a per hour basis. Or could come up with a conversion > > >>> scenario for you. > > >>> > > >>> Tommy > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > >> Subscription Services: > > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From hptdesigns at charter.net Wed Dec 8 05:49:46 2004 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Wed Dec 8 05:45:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A dumb newbie queation re: A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <003401c4dcd1$716470e0$82e2fc40@j9yhq01> Message-ID: <3k70j8$it90la@mxip17a.cluster1.charter.net> Just remember the database itself may be free, but the application is not if indeed there is one written for mineral collecting. It is similar to my wastewater plant--the microbes that actually do the work of breaking down and treating the sewerage are free. But the tanks to contain them , the controls to monitor them, the aerators to provide them air, the pumps to move them around, the pipes to to feed them (the sewer lines), the pipes to isolate them and keep them away from the river, and the disinfection of the end product are decidedly not free. Just for information, it costs $4.00/ gallon to build a wastewater plant. So if you need to treat 1,000,000 gallons a day, the plant (the appplication) is going to cost $4,000,000 not including operating costs (support). But the microbes are free, and they are the only things that are really doing the work. Also remember that when you get your water bill and sewer bill not to complain too much--be thankful. For less than the costs of cable you get water piped to your house and dirty water taken away with little impact on the environment. When they say in Iraq that we can do all this sophisticated war stuff but are having trouble getting water and sewer--there is a reason for that--it is a much more complicated problem than simply building a rocket. Now to get off my soapbox and have a good cup of coffee. Mindat is a great database application and is free to use--but it is definitely not free to create or maintain. That genius that created it gave his genius away and we should all be thankful. But the costs to him are real in time and probably not a considerable amount of money. Same goes for webmineral.com Tommy > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of The Hammer > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 9:56 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] A dumb newbie queation re: A good > mineral database? > > I wonder if openoffice.org has a mac database there (if they > do, bet its pretty good and free) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tommy Armstrong" > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors'" > > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 9:53 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] A dumb newbie queation re: A good > mineral database? > > > > Well, the Access file format is almost universal but lo and > behold MS has > > not created Access for the Mac. However, my son is a Mac support > technician > > and informs me that the next version of Office for Mac is > going to include > > Virtual PC. Or you might already have a copy. And since > the company that > > developed Virtual PC was bought by MS, I have a good > feeling that it will > be > > tweaked to run MS programs. From what I understand, it essentially > installs > > a full version of XP on the MAC and then translates to OS > 10.2. Hell if it > > works (and he is supposed to get a copy soon) I might say > bye bye to pc's > as > > long as I can use Access. I understand that Excel for Mac > as well as Word > > are superior to those for the pc. > > > > tommy > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf > Of jjunkroski > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 5:40 PM > > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and > gem collectors > > > Subject: [Rockhounds] A dumb newbie queation re: A good > > > mineral database? > > > > > > > > > > > > Can I get it to work on a Mac? > > > > > > Junk > > > > > > on 12/6/04 1:30 PM, Tommy Armstrong at > hptdesigns@charter.net wrote: > > > > > > > Gary is right of course. OpenOffice has a very good > > > database program > > > > that is based on MySQL. And it is free. > > > > > > > > The whole genesis of this project was a custom app for > a particular > > > > museum and for myself and my own collection. I am a good to > > > very good > > > > Access programmer and feel much more comfortable using that > > > medium. I > > > > actually like MS even with all its faults. And I could see > > > no reason > > > > that anytime in my lifetime, I would not have some version > > > of MS Office running on my machine. > > > > And as for a program for a major museum, there is > really no reason > > > > why they would not have a copy. If they don't, they > should. Granted > > > > that if you had to go out and purchase Office and a PC > just to run > > > > this app., then the cost would be pretty high. But if you > > > have Office > > > > and XP, then it is very reasonable. And since the file format of > > > > Access is almost universal, any migration in the future is > > > pretty much > > > > assured. All documents and pictures are stored outside the main > > > > application as whatever kind of file you want, such as pdf, > > > jpeg, mov, > > > > Word, Excel, html, xml, etc. and the app itself is simply a > > > repository > > > > for the links to those files. Much like a website for those > > > files. All > > > > files ARE however copied to a subfolder of the main app > > > with an easy > > > > to understand naming convention so that when one wants to backup > > > > everything, one simply copies the main folder onto a CD or > > > DVD or tape > > > > or whatever media is currently the choice. You can also > > > create emails > > > > and word docs from within the program and copies of those > > > messages are > > > > saved and attached to the specimen so that it is fairly > > > easy to track > > > > all correspondence associated with the specimen. This is > > > not of course > > > > to be used instead of Outlook, Eudora, or whatever > email client you > > > > like to use, but just for correspondence that you want > > > associated in > > > > the database. It has a very simple contact manager for such > > > > correspondences but should not be construed to take the > > > place of a real contact management system such as OutLook. > > > > > > > > It does support multiple collections and has search screens for > > > > pictures and documents for either the actual specimen or > > > for library pics and docs. > > > > Library pics are for example pictures of similar species but not > > > > actually in the individuals collection. Say for example > you have a > > > > wulfenite from Alhumada and while searching the web you > run across > > > > other wulfenites. You can save those and put them into > the "picture > > > > library". When you enter your specimen into the > database (or later) > > > > you can then attach these ancillary pics to that > specimen or to as > > > > many as you want. The same goes for documents. Say for > example you > > > > subscribe to MinRec and there is an article that is about a > > > location > > > > or occurrence that you want to associate with specimens in your > > > > collection. You can scan that article (perfectly legal > for your own > > > > personal use), save it as a pdf file or tiff file, and then > > > associate > > > > that article with all the specimens in your collection that are > > > > pertinent. I am currently working on a more seamless way of > > > scanning > > > > using Paperport, but it is not really necessary to > actually save a > > > > file. The main advantage of Paperport is that it will > > > create pdf docs > > > > that can be annotated and manipulated. And it is darn > > > reasonable for > > > > what it does. I am very excited about the full text search free > > > > program from copernic because you can use it to index all those > > > > library docs that you have saved and be able to pull them up > > > > immediately. It can index and search any doc on your pc or > > > any doc in > > > > any folder. Since when using my program, the docs and > pics actually > > > > get copied into a subfolder of the main app, you can > easily search > > > > with copernic just those things in that subfolder. I had > > > always wanted > > > > to include this in the app, but the add-in tools were > > > expensive. Access itself can do it for text, but not for pdf > > > and word doc and html files. This pretty much solves all > > > those problems even though a bit kludgy. > > > > > > > > You can also link to a file on the web or on your pc > > > without copying > > > > it, but who is to say that 10 years or even two days > from now that > > > > that file will exist or have the same path. Web files > > > change constantly. > > > > > > > > On the location tab, you can click the MD button and it > send you to > > > > the appropriate page on Mindats site and you can bring > up maps on > > > > mapquest, topozone, terraserver and elevation maps on > the National > > > > Geographic Map Machine if the lat long is saved. It will > > > also convert > > > > lat/longs from deg-min-sec to decimals for saving in the field. > > > > > > > > On the description tab, you can automatically open up > > > mineralweb.com > > > > to the appropriate mineral and review all the data > available there. > > > > > > > > It also has a little utility for adding non-standard > > > characters such > > > > as sub scripts and super scripts and greek letters and > math symbols > > > > while entering text. > > > > > > > > But the main reason I decided on using Access is the built > > > in filter > > > > by form function that allows one to pretty much return > and set of > > > > records based on just about any field on the form itself. > > > This is a MS > > > > Access function and can only be used if app is running > under Access > > > > and does not work if running under an executable. To > duplicate this > > > > very powerful function would have required many, many, many > > > hours of > > > > programming and probably would still not as been as robust. > > > > > > > > The same goes for the query builder screens and the report > > > generating > > > > functions. With a very simple understanding of Access you > > > can create > > > > your own specific queries and reports (labels, etc.)to just > > > your specifications. > > > > > > > > You can also add your own parameters to the record for > > > those that are > > > > not included in the field list--such as Dana Number, > Strunz Number, > > > > etc. We decided that that was not really necessary > since they are > > > > readily available on the very good online databases especially > > > > mineralweb.com. If one wants that info, one could > easily save the > > > > webpage as an mht file and then add it to the library. > Then attach > > > > that library document to the specimen. Total time for all > > > that about > > > > 30 seconds--I just did just that to test it. Then you > have all the > > > > data about that species that you will probably always need > > > > -- as mineralweb is simply an awesome resource. I do > not feel it my > > > > job to duplicate its functionality (even if I could, > which I could > > > > not). However, the advantage of actually saving a copy on > > > your machine > > > > is that it is available even if you have no internet access > > > or perhaps > > > > the site is no longer in existance. > > > > > > > > Tommy Armstrong > > > > > > > > "Creativity is the marvelous capacity to grasp distinct > > > realities and > > > > draw a spark from their juxtaposition." > > > > Max Ernst > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > > > Gary Brown > > > >> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 12:01 PM > > > >> To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > > >> collectors' > > > >> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > > > >> > > > >> I'm not sure if it would work, but OpenOffice might be a good, > > > >> low-cost solution. Low cost, as in "free". Access can be > > > migrated > > > >> and used, I believe, with OpenOFfice. See: > > > >> > > > >> http://www.openoffice.org/product/dbase.html > > > >> > > > >> It all depends on how the databases are set up. > > > >> > > > >> GcB > > > >> > > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > > >>> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > >>> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On > Behalf Of Tommy > > > >>> Armstrong > > > >>> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 10:52 AM > > > >>> To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > > >>> collectors' > > > >>> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > > > >>> > > > >>> You can use sub and superscripts and added a character map > > > >> to enable > > > >>> you to pretty easily add them and the greek letters and other > > > >>> characters to your descriptions and formula field. > > > >>> As far as the excel, it definitely can be imported but need > > > >> to map the > > > >>> fields in the spreadsheet into the fields in the > database. If you > > > >>> could email me a sample of your spreadsheet, I could > answer the > > > >>> question on whether it would be a "clean conversion". > > > >>> > > > >>> Access itself has an import wizard that is pretty darned > > > >>> sophisticated. But I would like to try it out and see how > > > >> your fields > > > >>> "match up". > > > >>> > > > >>> For example we have separate fields for location > > > >> data--country, state, > > > >>> town, mine, etc. > > > >>> > > > >>> How many do you have in your excel file? > > > >>> > > > >>> If thousands, I could create code to parse the fields. > > > >>> > > > >>> Really need to see how you have yours set up. > > > >>> > > > >>> Also, if not straighforward, I am sure I could get he > > > data into the > > > >>> database on a per hour basis. Or could come up with a > conversion > > > >>> scenario for you. > > > >>> > > > >>> Tommy > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > >> Subscription Services: > > > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > > Subscription Services: > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From JWachsmuth at gmx.de Wed Dec 8 09:54:31 2004 From: JWachsmuth at gmx.de (Juergen Wachsmuth) Date: Wed Dec 8 10:04:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Europe References: <200412061518.iB6FIGUp023060@bubbleator.drizzle.com><012801c4e2f8$2868a550$bcf3a5d8@rock5> <005301c4dbd7$6f3f7da0$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> <000c01c4dbe1$479fdc40$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <41B73FD7.E7FADF7D@gmx.de> Hello Julie and John, as I am living in Germany I should be in the position to send you some useful information. First a warning: mineral collecting is not easy in Europe: almost no active mines, great difficulties with access to active quarries, a lot of people interested in mineral specimens. The part of Italy you are mentioning is a great place. In two weeks you can get a good impression of Tuscany and Umbria; you should rent a car to avoid spending much time in busses and trains. And be careful, which time of the year do you plan to go? Avoid the winter time in southern Europe. It can be pretty wet. There are a lot of mineral localities in this area. Unfortunately I never went on field trips there. We spent our time with all the other pleasures you mentioned (hearty wines, pasta, seafood, pasta, archeology, pasta) ... So I do not know which places are accessible in these days and worth a visit. For example you can read about the type locality of gismondine at Capo di Bove, Via Appia, Rom, Latium, Italy. But going there you will not be able to collect a single small rock containing any zeolite. It is history, private and forbidden (I beg your pardon, the example is a little bit outside the area you described). My suggestion is to look for the help of local collectors but I cannot give you an address. There are several societies of mineral collectors in Italy. Addresses should be available by the Italian journal Rivista Mineralogica Italiana, published by Gruppo Mineralogico Lombardo, Museo Civico di Storia Naturale, Corso Venezia 55, 20121 Milano, Italy. This is the best journal for mineral collectors in Italy. Ticino, Switzerland: another great region for holidays. I like skiing (winter) and hiking (summer) there. I did not do field trips there for minerals. Please be aware that many localities there are high in the mountains, and be prepared for long walks. Collecting in high mountains is not easy. Of course there are easier places down in the valleys. Another problem in Switzerland is legislation. Many places have restrictions for collectors and you have to buy a license to be allowed collecting. An area that is promoting mineral collecting for tourists is Binntal (Lengenbach quarry you sure know), Wallis, Switzerland. They have a homepage that is giving latest information, I guess it is www.georama.ch, or google it. Dr. Stefan Weiss, responsible for Lapis (lapis@lapis.de), knows a lot about Swiss localities. He is visiting localities together with local experts and writing articles every year. I do not know whether is willing to help you. What I know is that his time is quite restricted. I wish you a good time on your trip. Personally I would suggest Italy. While definitely not cheap, especially with the current rate USD-Euro, you should be prepared for spending even more money in Switzerland. Of course, depending on your needs there is a broad range of possibilities -from youth hostel to 5* hotel, from self-catering to gourmet restaurant. I would like to hear about your decision, and feel free to forward any other questions. Regards, J?rgen Wachsmuth Ulm - Germany John Siebel schrieb: > Hi - this is John's wife Julie. > > A website client I have that rents apartments in Europe has given us a two > week vacation to pretty much anywhere they go. > > John and I have never been off of the N. American continent, for > rockhounding, or anything else! > > I'm interested in Italy for a lot of reasons (hearty wines, pasta, seafood, > pasta, archeology, pasta) and so we were thinking of choosing N. Tuscany, S. > Tuscany or Umbria. On the other hand, rockhounding-wise, we might be better > off in an area like Ticino in Switzerland. They also go to various other > places throughout Europe. Can someone enlighten us on what there is to > collect in Italy, and where, or another place they go (www.untours.com) that > would be a cool rockhounding trip? We're not married to Switzerland, we just > don't have a real good handle on European geography, so I don't know what is > found where, and how far it is from any particular place! lol > > Any guidance would be appreciated... > > Julie > > John here, > > Sorry for the redundant post but we still haven't a clue here. Been chatting > on mindat looking for ideas. > > John > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From JWachsmuth at gmx.de Wed Dec 8 10:24:12 2004 From: JWachsmuth at gmx.de (Juergen Wachsmuth) Date: Wed Dec 8 10:48:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Europe References: <200412061518.iB6FIGUp023060@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <012801c4e2f8$2868a550$bcf3a5d8@rock5> <005301c4dbd7$6f3f7da0$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> <5.2.0.9.2.20041207113601.01ef1700@po2.bbn.com> Message-ID: <41B746CC.F12A106D@gmx.de> Hello, nice to hear that you liked your trip to Europe, even without serious collecting. The Padua Museum is one of my favourites, too. A necessary addition concerning those zeolites because you obviously did not hear this. The area Seiser Alm = Alpe de Siusi is a national park now, and you are not supposed to collect minerals or fossils there. The reason is that we are speaking of a fragile environment visited by thousands of people every year. Of course, some people do collect and there is no police man behind every rock; nevertheless it is against the law, and in my opinion we should behave like guests in this country. Regards, J?rgen Wachsmuth Ulm - Germany > Julie (and John), > > A few of years ago my wife and I went to Italy with a musical group and > spent time in Padua, Bolzano and Venice. It was all pretty amazing and has > given me many good memories including singing works by the Italian composer > Palestrina in Saint Marks cathedral in Venice, but that is an answer to a > different question. > > For rockhounding interests I would go back to Bolzano in a heartbeat. It > lies in the Alto Adige region in northern Italy. The locals speak both > German and Italian. The food is wonderful, the scenery is drop-dead > georgeous and although I was not there long enough to collect anything but > river rock I believe it has potential due to the specimens I saw in a > museum in Padua. We were there in late April and I missed a local mineral > swap/show by one day (Aaaaaarrrrgggggghhh!). I think I still have the > brochure somewhere with some contact info for the organizers of the > show. If you are serious about this region let me know and I will look for it. > > Here is a website that has some info on collecting in that area > http://www.italianminerals.com/Zeoliti-siusi/zeolites-siusi.html I also > recommend contacting the > > Alessandro Genazzani to see if he has other suggestions. > > Somewhere I have a club newsletter article that I wrote about the trip > describing the University of Padua mineral museum I visited in Padua, the > Natural History museum in Bolzano and various mineral stores I found in > both Padua and Venice. If you are interested I will find it and send it > too you. > > I envy your opportunity. I'm sure you will have a great time. > > Best regards, > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > > From tangojuli at yahoo.com Wed Dec 8 11:50:21 2004 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Wed Dec 8 11:50:24 2004 Subject: collecting in Italy [Rockhounds] Europe In-Reply-To: <41B73FD7.E7FADF7D@gmx.de> Message-ID: <20041208195021.81840.qmail@web60805.mail.yahoo.com> John and Julie: I would echo Juergen's comments below on many points. I lived in southern Italy for a long time and lived in sud tirol (trentino alto adige--mezzocorona--the Dolomites) for a couple years. Rock collecting has been a popular hobby there for a long time, so surface collecting in publically accessible areas has been long since depleted. And since the entire peninsula was settled prehisotrically and historically, digging anywhere is dangerous for contractors (it'll stop you cold for years if you hit a cultural site). So not a lot of exposures there. Land is such a premium, there isn't anything like our public lands here. There are places I heard about in the Alps (which run throughout northern italy) for collecting, but the ones I heard about--pegmatites--required serious mountaineering skills. There was an old Galena mine near our house in mezzocorona as well, but I never found anything :(. The south is a bit different from the north, but comes with its own hazards. Sicily is supposed to have some very nice minerals, but you really need a guide. I usually buy mine rather than collect. You used to be able to get up to the Etna (volcano) for cool extrusives (lavas), but it has serious indigestion right now, so that might be hazardous if not prohibited. The Etna region has been an attractive settlement since before the greeks came in the 8th century bc, so there are lots of roman and greek ruins in Sicily. In the Naples region are some of the richest most unforgetable archaeological ruins in the world--Pompeii, Herculaneum, Stabiae and of course, the Vesuvius, of which you can get up to the rim. Last time I visited, you could still buy volcanic minerals from roadside vendors. There is an active volcano right near naples--the Solfatara-- with an old roman sauna in it that you can visit as well. There are fumaroles and mudpools that are quite fun too. I've found some interesting minerals in there--although I lost them when I moved back stateside. Down the street is one of the best preserved roman amphitheatres in europe--at pozzuoli. Security used to be pretty relaxed, so you can see a lot of the underworkings where the chains used to pull the wild animal cages up to the arena. Bradyseism in the area--earthquake activity--sometimes keeps the underworkings closed technically...but... Traffic is beyond anything in your imaginings in this area, but there might be other ways to travel to this part of naples. There are old 7th C. BC Greek ruins from the first Greek colony at Cuma a couple miles down from the arena. It is controversial, but they say settlement here may have predated the founding of Rome. This wasn't a little village--it came with temples, and an enormous earthwork sistern. South of Pompeii is Paestum, another Greek colony whose temples are in far better shape than anything in Greece. So in s. Italy at least, you'd get serious archaeology if not serious minerals. It is a great place to explore geology, that is for sure. Naples is also home to Pizza, the best fresh seafood in the world, opera, and joyous people, so it wouldn't be a loss! If you elect to travel to southern italy, feel free to contact me for more info. Buon viaggio whereever you decide to go! tina tangojuli@yahoo.com Juergen Wachsmuth wrote: Hello Julie and John, as I am living in Germany I should be in the position to send you some useful information. First a warning: mineral collecting is not easy in Europe: almost no active mines, great difficulties with access to active quarries, a lot of people interested in mineral specimens. The part of Italy you are mentioning is a great place. In two weeks you can get a good impression of Tuscany and Umbria; you should rent a car to avoid spending much time in busses and trains. And be careful, which time of the year do you plan to go? Avoid the winter time in southern Europe. It can be pretty wet. There are a lot of mineral localities in this area. Unfortunately I never went on field trips there. We spent our time with all the other pleasures you mentioned (hearty wines, pasta, seafood, pasta, archeology, pasta) ... So I do not know which places are accessible in these days and worth a visit. For example you can read about the type locality of gismondine at Capo di Bove, Via Appia, Rom, Latium, Italy. But going there you will not be able to collect a single small rock containing any zeolite. It is history, private and forbidden (I beg your pardon, the example is a little bit outside the area you described). My suggestion is to look for the help of local collectors but I cannot give you an address. There are several societies of mineral collectors in Italy. Addresses should be available by the Italian journal Rivista Mineralogica Italiana, published by Gruppo Mineralogico Lombardo, Museo Civico di Storia Naturale, Corso Venezia 55, 20121 Milano, Italy. This is the best journal for mineral collectors in Italy. Ticino, Switzerland: another great region for holidays. I like skiing (winter) and hiking (summer) there. I did not do field trips there for minerals. Please be aware that many localities there are high in the mountains, and be prepared for long walks. Collecting in high mountains is not easy. Of course there are easier places down in the valleys. Another problem in Switzerland is legislation. Many places have restrictions for collectors and you have to buy a license to be allowed collecting. An area that is promoting mineral collecting for tourists is Binntal (Lengenbach quarry you sure know), Wallis, Switzerland. They have a homepage that is giving latest information, I guess it is www.georama.ch, or google it. Dr. Stefan Weiss, responsible for Lapis (lapis@lapis.de), knows a lot about Swiss localities. He is visiting localities together with local experts and writing articles every year. I do not know whether is willing to help you. What I know is that his time is quite restricted. I wish you a good time on your trip. Personally I would suggest Italy. While definitely not cheap, especially with the current rate USD-Euro, you should be prepared for spending even more money in Switzerland. Of course, depending on your needs there is a broad range of possibilities -from youth hostel to 5* hotel, from self-catering to gourmet restaurant. I would like to hear about your decision, and feel free to forward any other questions. Regards, Jürgen Wachsmuth Ulm - Germany John Siebel schrieb: > Hi - this is John's wife Julie. > > A website client I have that rents apartments in Europe has given us a two > week vacation to pretty much anywhere they go. > > John and I have never been off of the N. American continent, for > rockhounding, or anything else! > > I'm interested in Italy for a lot of reasons (hearty wines, pasta, seafood, > pasta, archeology, pasta) and so we were thinking of choosing N. Tuscany, S. > Tuscany or Umbria. On the other hand, rockhounding-wise, we might be better > off in an area like Ticino in Switzerland. They also go to various other > places throughout Europe. Can someone enlighten us on what there is to > collect in Italy, and where, or another place they go (www.untours.com) that > would be a cool rockhounding trip? We're not married to Switzerland, we just > don't have a real good handle on European geography, so I don't know what is > found where, and how far it is from any particular place! lol > > Any guidance would be appreciated... > > Julie > > John here, > > Sorry for the redundant post but we still haven't a clue here. Been chatting > on mindat looking for ideas. > > John > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Wed Dec 8 16:09:51 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Wed Dec 8 16:09:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] to get an answer from mindat.org Message-ID: <002d01c4dd83$67b165f0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Since some people have had difficulty getting the "okay" to post mineral photos on the mindat.org web site, and e-mailing the web master doesn't produce a response, I've drafted some instructions below that worked for me: 1) Go to the www.mindat.org web site. 2) At the top, click on the "Message Board". 3) Find the heading "Manual". 4) Click on "New Topic" and write a note indicating you want to contribute photos. They will respond to you directly (if you indicate on the note) or via the message board within a day. - OR - try this link: http://www.mindat.org/msgboard-10.html Try it and let us know if it works for you. Alan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 8 18:02:55 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Wed Dec 8 17:54:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] rhodonite mine (was 50 ton erratic) References: <8A439E3A-4551-11D9-8713-000393AC22E6@lrream.com><6.2.0.14.2.20041206074058.02dcfa68@mail.spiritone.com><6.2.0.14.2.20041206154512.02d71ed0@mail.spiritone.com><000701c4dc07$ef361fc0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com><0CCA73E6-481C-11D9-8D5E-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net><000701c4dc3e$9b5c0a40$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com><000f01c4dc68$c11e1460$a9a5490c@pete> <000c01c4dc7b$13a84720$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <006601c4dd93$33b2bfa0$54a6490c@pete> Jay, thanks for clarifying that locality--just one of many things/places I don't know much about! I just looked in Pemberton's Minerals of California. After figuring out the somewhat inconvenient order in which minerals are listed in that book (still don't quite comprehend that, but I just looked up rhodonite in the index; it's grouped with other manganese silicates--bementite, bustamite, pyroxmangite, and alleghanyite), I saw that many CA localities are listed for rhodonite. The Spider mine is mentioned there (among other mines in Trinity County), which reminded me when I saw it, of the one occurrence of manganese mineral there that is, I think, best known to mineral collectors worldwide, the inesite from the Hale Creek mine--probably because that's one of the better crystallized occurrences of all the mines with manganese silicates. sincerely, Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 9:37 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] rhodonite mine (was 50 ton erratic) > That is the San Francisco Gem and Mineral Society. The mine is the Spider > Mine which is familiar to most of the clubs in northern California. As far > as I know, it is rhodonite. There is also some other mines in California, > including one near Wildwood in southern California. Our club has made trips > to Utah and Montana but not Colorado. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter J. Modreski" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 6:26 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] rhodonite mine (was 50 ton erratic) > > > > So, Jay, is that the San Francisco Gem and Mineral Society, or San > Fernando, > > or ______ ? > > > > I'm not especially familiar with rhodonite from anywhere in > (California??); From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Dec 8 17:58:14 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Dec 8 17:58:20 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A dumb newbie queation re: A good mineral database? References: <3k77vd$e39t2j@mxip10a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <41B7B12E.7078@Tomaszewski.net> I've used Virtual PC for years on my Mac. It actually emulates the Intel hardware of a PC so you can run Windows, Linux, or OS/2 in a window on your Mac, as well as any software that works on those operating systems. Hopefully Microsoft will not 'tweak' it, because it already works. Kreigh Tommy Armstrong wrote: > > Well, the Access file format is almost universal but lo and behold MS has > not created Access for the Mac. However, my son is a Mac support technician > and informs me that the next version of Office for Mac is going to include > Virtual PC. Or you might already have a copy. And since the company that > developed Virtual PC was bought by MS, I have a good feeling that it will be > tweaked to run MS programs. From what I understand, it essentially installs > a full version of XP on the MAC and then translates to OS 10.2. Hell if it > works (and he is supposed to get a copy soon) I might say bye bye to pc's as > long as I can use Access. I understand that Excel for Mac as well as Word > are superior to those for the pc. > > tommy > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of jjunkroski > > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 5:40 PM > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Subject: [Rockhounds] A dumb newbie queation re: A good > > mineral database? > > > > > > > > Can I get it to work on a Mac? > > > > Junk > > > > on 12/6/04 1:30 PM, Tommy Armstrong at hptdesigns@charter.net wrote: > > > > > Gary is right of course. OpenOffice has a very good > > database program > > > that is based on MySQL. And it is free. > > > > > > The whole genesis of this project was a custom app for a particular > > > museum and for myself and my own collection. I am a good to > > very good > > > Access programmer and feel much more comfortable using that > > medium. I > > > actually like MS even with all its faults. And I could see > > no reason > > > that anytime in my lifetime, I would not have some version > > of MS Office running on my machine. > > > And as for a program for a major museum, there is really no reason > > > why they would not have a copy. If they don't, they should. Granted > > > that if you had to go out and purchase Office and a PC just to run > > > this app., then the cost would be pretty high. But if you > > have Office > > > and XP, then it is very reasonable. And since the file format of > > > Access is almost universal, any migration in the future is > > pretty much > > > assured. All documents and pictures are stored outside the main > > > application as whatever kind of file you want, such as pdf, > > jpeg, mov, > > > Word, Excel, html, xml, etc. and the app itself is simply a > > repository > > > for the links to those files. Much like a website for those > > files. All > > > files ARE however copied to a subfolder of the main app > > with an easy > > > to understand naming convention so that when one wants to backup > > > everything, one simply copies the main folder onto a CD or > > DVD or tape > > > or whatever media is currently the choice. You can also > > create emails > > > and word docs from within the program and copies of those > > messages are > > > saved and attached to the specimen so that it is fairly > > easy to track > > > all correspondence associated with the specimen. This is > > not of course > > > to be used instead of Outlook, Eudora, or whatever email client you > > > like to use, but just for correspondence that you want > > associated in > > > the database. It has a very simple contact manager for such > > > correspondences but should not be construed to take the > > place of a real contact management system such as OutLook. > > > > > > It does support multiple collections and has search screens for > > > pictures and documents for either the actual specimen or > > for library pics and docs. > > > Library pics are for example pictures of similar species but not > > > actually in the individuals collection. Say for example you have a > > > wulfenite from Alhumada and while searching the web you run across > > > other wulfenites. You can save those and put them into the "picture > > > library". When you enter your specimen into the database (or later) > > > you can then attach these ancillary pics to that specimen or to as > > > many as you want. The same goes for documents. Say for example you > > > subscribe to MinRec and there is an article that is about a > > location > > > or occurrence that you want to associate with specimens in your > > > collection. You can scan that article (perfectly legal for your own > > > personal use), save it as a pdf file or tiff file, and then > > associate > > > that article with all the specimens in your collection that are > > > pertinent. I am currently working on a more seamless way of > > scanning > > > using Paperport, but it is not really necessary to actually save a > > > file. The main advantage of Paperport is that it will > > create pdf docs > > > that can be annotated and manipulated. And it is darn > > reasonable for > > > what it does. I am very excited about the full text search free > > > program from copernic because you can use it to index all those > > > library docs that you have saved and be able to pull them up > > > immediately. It can index and search any doc on your pc or > > any doc in > > > any folder. Since when using my program, the docs and pics actually > > > get copied into a subfolder of the main app, you can easily search > > > with copernic just those things in that subfolder. I had > > always wanted > > > to include this in the app, but the add-in tools were > > expensive. Access itself can do it for text, but not for pdf > > and word doc and html files. This pretty much solves all > > those problems even though a bit kludgy. > > > > > > You can also link to a file on the web or on your pc > > without copying > > > it, but who is to say that 10 years or even two days from now that > > > that file will exist or have the same path. Web files > > change constantly. > > > > > > On the location tab, you can click the MD button and it send you to > > > the appropriate page on Mindats site and you can bring up maps on > > > mapquest, topozone, terraserver and elevation maps on the National > > > Geographic Map Machine if the lat long is saved. It will > > also convert > > > lat/longs from deg-min-sec to decimals for saving in the field. > > > > > > On the description tab, you can automatically open up > > mineralweb.com > > > to the appropriate mineral and review all the data available there. > > > > > > It also has a little utility for adding non-standard > > characters such > > > as sub scripts and super scripts and greek letters and math symbols > > > while entering text. > > > > > > But the main reason I decided on using Access is the built > > in filter > > > by form function that allows one to pretty much return and set of > > > records based on just about any field on the form itself. > > This is a MS > > > Access function and can only be used if app is running under Access > > > and does not work if running under an executable. To duplicate this > > > very powerful function would have required many, many, many > > hours of > > > programming and probably would still not as been as robust. > > > > > > The same goes for the query builder screens and the report > > generating > > > functions. With a very simple understanding of Access you > > can create > > > your own specific queries and reports (labels, etc.)to just > > your specifications. > > > > > > You can also add your own parameters to the record for > > those that are > > > not included in the field list--such as Dana Number, Strunz Number, > > > etc. We decided that that was not really necessary since they are > > > readily available on the very good online databases especially > > > mineralweb.com. If one wants that info, one could easily save the > > > webpage as an mht file and then add it to the library. Then attach > > > that library document to the specimen. Total time for all > > that about > > > 30 seconds--I just did just that to test it. Then you have all the > > > data about that species that you will probably always need > > > -- as mineralweb is simply an awesome resource. I do not feel it my > > > job to duplicate its functionality (even if I could, which I could > > > not). However, the advantage of actually saving a copy on > > your machine > > > is that it is available even if you have no internet access > > or perhaps > > > the site is no longer in existance. > > > > > > Tommy Armstrong > > > > > > "Creativity is the marvelous capacity to grasp distinct > > realities and > > > draw a spark from their juxtaposition." > > > Max Ernst > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > > Gary Brown > > >> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 12:01 PM > > >> To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > >> collectors' > > >> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > > >> > > >> I'm not sure if it would work, but OpenOffice might be a good, > > >> low-cost solution. Low cost, as in "free". Access can be > > migrated > > >> and used, I believe, with OpenOFfice. See: > > >> > > >> http://www.openoffice.org/product/dbase.html > > >> > > >> It all depends on how the databases are set up. > > >> > > >> GcB > > >> > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > >>> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > >>> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Tommy > > >>> Armstrong > > >>> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 10:52 AM > > >>> To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > >>> collectors' > > >>> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > > >>> > > >>> You can use sub and superscripts and added a character map > > >> to enable > > >>> you to pretty easily add them and the greek letters and other > > >>> characters to your descriptions and formula field. > > >>> As far as the excel, it definitely can be imported but need > > >> to map the > > >>> fields in the spreadsheet into the fields in the database. If you > > >>> could email me a sample of your spreadsheet, I could answer the > > >>> question on whether it would be a "clean conversion". > > >>> > > >>> Access itself has an import wizard that is pretty darned > > >>> sophisticated. But I would like to try it out and see how > > >> your fields > > >>> "match up". > > >>> > > >>> For example we have separate fields for location > > >> data--country, state, > > >>> town, mine, etc. > > >>> > > >>> How many do you have in your excel file? > > >>> > > >>> If thousands, I could create code to parse the fields. > > >>> > > >>> Really need to see how you have yours set up. > > >>> > > >>> Also, if not straighforward, I am sure I could get he > > data into the > > >>> database on a per hour basis. Or could come up with a conversion > > >>> scenario for you. > > >>> > > >>> Tommy From scottkleine at greatbasinminerals.com Wed Dec 8 18:09:15 2004 From: scottkleine at greatbasinminerals.com (Scott Kleine, Great Basin Minerals) Date: Wed Dec 8 18:16:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Superb Getchell mine Getchellites about to be listed on my web site- References: <011301c4dc10$330e9e40$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <008301c4dd94$159cc370$6b1ac93f@gbm> Calling all Getchell Mine (Nevada) collectors- I am just about finished cleaning a FANTASTIC collection of Getchell mine getchellites and thought you all might like to know about it. Please see- http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Getchell%20mine%20Getchellites%20Page.htm I would be happy to e-mail anyone interested (privately), immediately after I update my web site with these specimens. Please contact me off group. All the best! Scott Kleine- Great Basin Minerals www.greatbasinminerals.com scottkleine@greatbasinminerals.com From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Dec 8 18:16:33 2004 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Wed Dec 8 20:17:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Europe References: <200412061518.iB6FIGUp023060@bubbleator.drizzle.com><012801c4e2f8$2868a550$bcf3a5d8@rock5><005301c4dbd7$6f3f7da0$3b00a8c0@mshome.net><000c01c4dbe1$479fdc40$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> <41B73FD7.E7FADF7D@gmx.de> Message-ID: <002301c4dd95$1f38d3a0$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Thanks Juergen, Looks like we may have to satisfy our rockhounding along the beach! John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juergen Wachsmuth" Hello Julie and John, as I am living in Germany I should be in the position to send you some useful information. First a warning: mineral collecting is not easy in Europe: almost no active mines, great difficulties with access to active quarries, a lot of people interested in mineral specimens. From kahako at aloha.net Wed Dec 8 20:55:59 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Dec 8 20:26:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Date? (Spiders and micromounts) In-Reply-To: <012801c4e2f8$2868a550$bcf3a5d8@rock5> References: <200412061518.iB6FIGUp023060@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <012801c4e2f8$2868a550$bcf3a5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041208185134.0458abf0@mail.aloha.net> Small OT question...Rock, how did it happen that your message of a few days ago came with the date for next Wednesday? Aloha, Kitty---who has enough trouble keeping in touch with reality and her life in order without a time warp in her email! ;-)) At 12:48 PM 12/15/2004, you wrote: >In my collection is a cherished micromount from Tiger, Arizona. It is a tiny >spider house assembled from micro fragments of wulfenite and dioptase >fragments. >Rock > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.6 - Release Date: 12/5/2004 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.8 - Release Date: 12/8/2004 From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Dec 8 21:15:07 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Dec 8 21:14:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police {was: Date? (Spiders and micromounts)} References: <200412061518.iB6FIGUp023060@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <012801c4e2f8$2868a550$bcf3a5d8@rock5> <6.1.2.0.0.20041208185134.0458abf0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <41B7DF4A.B8F@Tomaszewski.net> Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > Small OT question...Rock, how did it happen that your message of a few days > ago came with the date for next Wednesday? > > Aloha, Kitty---who has enough trouble keeping in touch with reality and her > life in order without a time warp in her email! ;-)) > > At 12:48 PM 12/15/2004, you wrote: > > >In my collection is a cherished micromount from Tiger, Arizona. It is a tiny > >spider house assembled from micro fragments of wulfenite and dioptase > >fragments. > >Rock The next weekly meeting of The Time Traveling Rockhounds Association will be held last week Thursday at our usual location. The following meeting will be three weeks away; please bring a specimen to trade. From hptdesigns at charter.net Wed Dec 8 21:19:46 2004 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Wed Dec 8 21:15:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A dumb newbie queation re: A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <41B7B12E.7078@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <3k789p$jhpji1@mxip11a.cluster1.charter.net> Have you ever used it an run an Access/VB application under it. I understood that it really slowed things down, but with computers so fast the speed thing might be a problem of the past. Tommy > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Kreigh Tomaszewski > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 8:58 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] A dumb newbie queation re: A good > mineral database? > > I've used Virtual PC for years on my Mac. It actually > emulates the Intel hardware of a PC so you can run Windows, > Linux, or OS/2 in a window on your Mac, as well as any > software that works on those operating systems. > Hopefully Microsoft will not 'tweak' it, because it already works. > > Kreigh > > > > > Tommy Armstrong wrote: > > > > Well, the Access file format is almost universal but lo and > behold MS > > has not created Access for the Mac. However, my son is a > Mac support > > technician and informs me that the next version of Office > for Mac is > > going to include Virtual PC. Or you might already have a copy. And > > since the company that developed Virtual PC was bought by > MS, I have a > > good feeling that it will be tweaked to run MS programs. > From what I > > understand, it essentially installs a full version of XP on the MAC > > and then translates to OS 10.2. Hell if it works (and he is > supposed > > to get a copy soon) I might say bye bye to pc's as long as > I can use > > Access. I understand that Excel for Mac as well as Word are > superior to those for the pc. > > > > tommy > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > > > jjunkroski > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 5:40 PM > > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > > collectors > > > Subject: [Rockhounds] A dumb newbie queation re: A good mineral > > > database? > > > > > > > > > > > > Can I get it to work on a Mac? > > > > > > Junk > > > > > > on 12/6/04 1:30 PM, Tommy Armstrong at > hptdesigns@charter.net wrote: > > > > > > > Gary is right of course. OpenOffice has a very good > > > database program > > > > that is based on MySQL. And it is free. > > > > > > > > The whole genesis of this project was a custom app for a > > > > particular museum and for myself and my own collection. I am a > > > > good to > > > very good > > > > Access programmer and feel much more comfortable using that > > > medium. I > > > > actually like MS even with all its faults. And I could see > > > no reason > > > > that anytime in my lifetime, I would not have some version > > > of MS Office running on my machine. > > > > And as for a program for a major museum, there is really no > > > > reason why they would not have a copy. If they don't, > they should. > > > > Granted that if you had to go out and purchase Office and a PC > > > > just to run this app., then the cost would be pretty > high. But if > > > > you > > > have Office > > > > and XP, then it is very reasonable. And since the file > format of > > > > Access is almost universal, any migration in the future is > > > pretty much > > > > assured. All documents and pictures are stored outside the main > > > > application as whatever kind of file you want, such as pdf, > > > jpeg, mov, > > > > Word, Excel, html, xml, etc. and the app itself is simply a > > > repository > > > > for the links to those files. Much like a website for those > > > files. All > > > > files ARE however copied to a subfolder of the main app > > > with an easy > > > > to understand naming convention so that when one wants > to backup > > > > everything, one simply copies the main folder onto a CD or > > > DVD or tape > > > > or whatever media is currently the choice. You can also > > > create emails > > > > and word docs from within the program and copies of those > > > messages are > > > > saved and attached to the specimen so that it is fairly > > > easy to track > > > > all correspondence associated with the specimen. This is > > > not of course > > > > to be used instead of Outlook, Eudora, or whatever email client > > > > you like to use, but just for correspondence that you want > > > associated in > > > > the database. It has a very simple contact manager for such > > > > correspondences but should not be construed to take the > > > place of a real contact management system such as OutLook. > > > > > > > > It does support multiple collections and has search screens for > > > > pictures and documents for either the actual specimen or > > > for library pics and docs. > > > > Library pics are for example pictures of similar > species but not > > > > actually in the individuals collection. Say for example > you have a > > > > wulfenite from Alhumada and while searching the web you > run across > > > > other wulfenites. You can save those and put them into the > > > > "picture library". When you enter your specimen into > the database > > > > (or later) you can then attach these ancillary pics to that > > > > specimen or to as many as you want. The same goes for > documents. > > > > Say for example you subscribe to MinRec and there is an article > > > > that is about a > > > location > > > > or occurrence that you want to associate with specimens in your > > > > collection. You can scan that article (perfectly legal for your > > > > own personal use), save it as a pdf file or tiff file, and then > > > associate > > > > that article with all the specimens in your collection that are > > > > pertinent. I am currently working on a more seamless way of > > > scanning > > > > using Paperport, but it is not really necessary to > actually save a > > > > file. The main advantage of Paperport is that it will > > > create pdf docs > > > > that can be annotated and manipulated. And it is darn > > > reasonable for > > > > what it does. I am very excited about the full text search free > > > > program from copernic because you can use it to index all those > > > > library docs that you have saved and be able to pull them up > > > > immediately. It can index and search any doc on your pc or > > > any doc in > > > > any folder. Since when using my program, the docs and pics > > > > actually get copied into a subfolder of the main app, you can > > > > easily search with copernic just those things in that > subfolder. I > > > > had > > > always wanted > > > > to include this in the app, but the add-in tools were > > > expensive. Access itself can do it for text, but not for pdf and > > > word doc and html files. This pretty much solves all > those problems > > > even though a bit kludgy. > > > > > > > > You can also link to a file on the web or on your pc > > > without copying > > > > it, but who is to say that 10 years or even two days > from now that > > > > that file will exist or have the same path. Web files > > > change constantly. > > > > > > > > On the location tab, you can click the MD button and it > send you > > > > to the appropriate page on Mindats site and you can > bring up maps > > > > on mapquest, topozone, terraserver and elevation maps on the > > > > National Geographic Map Machine if the lat long is > saved. It will > > > also convert > > > > lat/longs from deg-min-sec to decimals for saving in the field. > > > > > > > > On the description tab, you can automatically open up > > > mineralweb.com > > > > to the appropriate mineral and review all the data > available there. > > > > > > > > It also has a little utility for adding non-standard > > > characters such > > > > as sub scripts and super scripts and greek letters and math > > > > symbols while entering text. > > > > > > > > But the main reason I decided on using Access is the built > > > in filter > > > > by form function that allows one to pretty much return > and set of > > > > records based on just about any field on the form itself. > > > This is a MS > > > > Access function and can only be used if app is running under > > > > Access and does not work if running under an executable. To > > > > duplicate this very powerful function would have required many, > > > > many, many > > > hours of > > > > programming and probably would still not as been as robust. > > > > > > > > The same goes for the query builder screens and the report > > > generating > > > > functions. With a very simple understanding of Access you > > > can create > > > > your own specific queries and reports (labels, etc.)to just > > > your specifications. > > > > > > > > You can also add your own parameters to the record for > > > those that are > > > > not included in the field list--such as Dana Number, Strunz > > > > Number, etc. We decided that that was not really > necessary since > > > > they are readily available on the very good online databases > > > > especially mineralweb.com. If one wants that info, one could > > > > easily save the webpage as an mht file and then add it to the > > > > library. Then attach that library document to the > specimen. Total > > > > time for all > > > that about > > > > 30 seconds--I just did just that to test it. Then you have all > > > > the data about that species that you will probably always need > > > > -- as mineralweb is simply an awesome resource. I do > not feel it > > > > my job to duplicate its functionality (even if I could, which I > > > > could not). However, the advantage of actually saving a copy on > > > your machine > > > > is that it is available even if you have no internet access > > > or perhaps > > > > the site is no longer in existance. > > > > > > > > Tommy Armstrong > > > > > > > > "Creativity is the marvelous capacity to grasp distinct > > > realities and > > > > draw a spark from their juxtaposition." > > > > Max Ernst > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > > > Gary Brown > > > >> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 12:01 PM > > > >> To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > > >> collectors' > > > >> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > > > >> > > > >> I'm not sure if it would work, but OpenOffice might be a good, > > > >> low-cost solution. Low cost, as in "free". Access can be > > > migrated > > > >> and used, I believe, with OpenOFfice. See: > > > >> > > > >> http://www.openoffice.org/product/dbase.html > > > >> > > > >> It all depends on how the databases are set up. > > > >> > > > >> GcB > > > >> > > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > > >>> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > >>> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On > Behalf Of Tommy > > > >>> Armstrong > > > >>> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 10:52 AM > > > >>> To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > > >>> collectors' > > > >>> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > > > >>> > > > >>> You can use sub and superscripts and added a character map > > > >> to enable > > > >>> you to pretty easily add them and the greek letters and other > > > >>> characters to your descriptions and formula field. > > > >>> As far as the excel, it definitely can be imported but need > > > >> to map the > > > >>> fields in the spreadsheet into the fields in the database. If > > > >>> you could email me a sample of your spreadsheet, I > could answer > > > >>> the question on whether it would be a "clean conversion". > > > >>> > > > >>> Access itself has an import wizard that is pretty darned > > > >>> sophisticated. But I would like to try it out and see how > > > >> your fields > > > >>> "match up". > > > >>> > > > >>> For example we have separate fields for location > > > >> data--country, state, > > > >>> town, mine, etc. > > > >>> > > > >>> How many do you have in your excel file? > > > >>> > > > >>> If thousands, I could create code to parse the fields. > > > >>> > > > >>> Really need to see how you have yours set up. > > > >>> > > > >>> Also, if not straighforward, I am sure I could get he > > > data into the > > > >>> database on a per hour basis. Or could come up with a > conversion > > > >>> scenario for you. > > > >>> > > > >>> Tommy > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From johnjold at comcast.net Wed Dec 8 21:51:18 2004 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Wed Dec 8 21:51:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Agate name site Message-ID: <58702C5E-49A6-11D9-8F0B-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> I googled a name for a jasper on eBay I had never heard of and was led to a fantastic site. http://csd.unl.edu/agates/agatelexiconletter.asp This is the Agate Lexicon of the University of Nebraska, Lincoln. A list of over 3000 names for agate, jasper, opal and other amorphous cryptocrystalline or spherulitic forms of gem Silicon Dioxide. If you go back to the home page http://csd.unl.edu/default.asp you will find an agate bibliography, an agate page and an illustrated glossary of agate terms. They also have good coverage of Nebraska fossil fish. This site has only had about a thousand visitors since opening last January. Let's encourage those hard working, clearly rockhound, Nebraskans with a year end burst of activity at their site. Be forewarned! You will spend more time at this site than you think. From hptdesigns at charter.net Wed Dec 8 22:18:00 2004 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Wed Dec 8 22:13:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Agate name site In-Reply-To: <58702C5E-49A6-11D9-8F0B-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3khj1l$e3egan@mxip09a.cluster1.charter.net> Wow--and I'm not really an agate person--but could get hooked. > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > John Joldersma > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 12:51 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com : A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > Subject: [Rockhounds] Agate name site > > I googled a name for a jasper on eBay I had never heard of > and was led > to a fantastic site. > http://csd.unl.edu/agates/agatelexiconletter.asp This is the Agate > Lexicon of the University of Nebraska, Lincoln. A list of > over 3000 names for agate, jasper, opal and other amorphous > cryptocrystalline or spherulitic forms of gem Silicon > Dioxide. If you go back to the home > page http://csd.unl.edu/default.asp you will find an agate > bibliography, an agate page and an illustrated glossary of > agate terms. > They also have good coverage of Nebraska fossil fish. This > site has only had about a thousand visitors since opening > last January. Let's encourage those hard working, clearly > rockhound, Nebraskans with a year end burst of activity at > their site. Be forewarned! You will spend more time at this > site than you think. > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From kahako at aloha.net Wed Dec 8 22:50:13 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Dec 8 22:20:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police {was: Date? (Spiders and micromounts)} In-Reply-To: <41B7DF4A.B8F@Tomaszewski.net> References: <200412061518.iB6FIGUp023060@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <012801c4e2f8$2868a550$bcf3a5d8@rock5> <6.1.2.0.0.20041208185134.0458abf0@mail.aloha.net> <41B7DF4A.B8F@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041208203957.045a0dc0@mail.aloha.net> Oh, Kreigh, thank you for my laugh of the day!!! It usually comes from Axel. It's nice to have another bit of wonderful comic relief. With good laughs, we may all live forever! Aloha, Kitty At 07:15 PM 12/8/2004, Kreigh wrote: >The next weekly meeting of The Time Traveling Rockhounds Association >will be held last week Thursday at our usual location. The following >meeting will be three weeks away; please bring a specimen to trade. >Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: >Small OT question...Rock, how did it happen that your >message of a few days ago came with the date for next >Wednesday? >Aloha, Kitty---who has enough trouble keeping in touch with >reality and her life in order without a time warp in her email! ;-)) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.8 - Release Date: 12/8/2004 From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Dec 9 00:54:28 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Dec 9 00:54:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police {was: Date? (Spidersand micromounts)} In-Reply-To: <41B7DF4A.B8F@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: >The next weekly meeting of The Time Traveling Rockhounds Association >will be held last week Thursday at our usual location. The following >meeting will be three weeks away; please bring a specimen to trade. Dear colleagues, My TARDIS is currently under repair but I'll have it back tomorrow. I'll set the dials for last Wednesday then to make up for the gained time. Toodles Axel (You really have to be British to understand this one... The TARDIS is the time machine, disguised as a phone booth, from the immensely popular BBC TV series "Doctor Who". I doubt that it was ever shown on American TV... too much carboard & latex aliens and home-made wheapons that looked suspiciously much like kitchen appliances. ) From webmaster at opalvalley.com Thu Dec 9 02:23:55 2004 From: webmaster at opalvalley.com (webmaster@opalvalley.com) Date: Thu Dec 9 02:24:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? References: <200412061700.iB6H0vN1030509@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <002901c4ddd9$304163d0$ba85ab40@OPALVALLEY> I use OpenOffice and it works just as well if not better than MS Office. Sherry > I'm not sure if it would work, but OpenOffice might be a good, low-cost > solution. Low cost, as in "free". Access can be migrated and used, I > believe, with OpenOFfice. See: > > http://www.openoffice.org/product/dbase.html > > It all depends on how the databases are set up. > > GcB From hptdesigns at charter.net Thu Dec 9 06:39:02 2004 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Thu Dec 9 06:34:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police {was: Date?(Spidersand micromounts)} In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3k789p$jid4k0@mxip11a.cluster1.charter.net> Dr. Who was a huge success over here for a certain subculture (mostly hippies and the cultural elitist types)--we would even have Dr. Who parties when it was broadcast. Actually the great Doctor is one of the great cultural contributions the Brits have had in the past 50 years or so. I think the whole series is available on DVD and would make a great Christmas present. > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Axel Emmermann > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 3:54 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police > {was: Date?(Spidersand micromounts)} > > >The next weekly meeting of The Time Traveling Rockhounds Association > >will be held last week Thursday at our usual location. The following > >meeting will be three weeks away; please bring a specimen to trade. > > Dear colleagues, > > My TARDIS is currently under repair but I'll have it back tomorrow. > I'll set the dials for last Wednesday then to make up for the > gained time. > > Toodles > > Axel > > (You really have to be British to understand this one... The > TARDIS is the time machine, disguised as a phone booth, from > the immensely popular BBC TV series "Doctor Who". I doubt > that it was ever shown on American TV... too much carboard & > latex aliens and home-made wheapons that looked suspiciously > much like kitchen appliances. ) > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Thu Dec 9 06:51:16 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Dec 9 06:51:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police {was:Date?(Spidersand micromounts)} In-Reply-To: <3k789p$jid4k0@mxip11a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <200412091451.iB9EpRJc016098@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Luckily, I've got a "hacked" DVD player than can play UK DVD's (stupid regional encoding Grrrrr). Looks like I'll have to haunt the used-DVD shops in the UK when I'm over there to find the disks. GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Tommy Armstrong > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:39 AM > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police > {was:Date?(Spidersand micromounts)} > > Dr. Who was a huge success over here for a certain subculture > (mostly hippies and the cultural elitist types)--we would > even have Dr. Who parties when it was broadcast. Actually the > great Doctor is one of the great cultural contributions the > Brits have had in the past 50 years or so. I think the whole > series is available on DVD and would make a great Christmas present. From afox at drizzle.com Thu Dec 9 07:14:22 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Thu Dec 9 07:14:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police {was:Date?(Spidersand micromounts)} In-Reply-To: <200412091451.iB9EpRJc016098@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: http://www.regionfreedvd.net/ or http://www.barrel-of-monkeys.com/graphics/prod/dvdplayers/jvcdvd-main.shtml Or, if you're watching on a PC, use DVD X-Player http://www.dvd-x-player.com/ Or, if you prefer to hakc your player: http://regionhacks.datatestlab.com/ Keep in mind that 'hacking' your DVD player may not be legal where you live (Australia, USA) thanks to short-sighted politicians who think 'Fair Use' is something only criminals whine about when they are arrested... a. > Luckily, I've got a "hacked" DVD player than can play UK DVD's (stupid > regional encoding Grrrrr). Looks like I'll have to haunt the used-DVD shops > in the UK when I'm over there to find the disks. > > GcB > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > > Tommy Armstrong > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:39 AM > > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors' > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police > > {was:Date?(Spidersand micromounts)} > > > > Dr. Who was a huge success over here for a certain subculture > > (mostly hippies and the cultural elitist types)--we would > > even have Dr. Who parties when it was broadcast. Actually the > > great Doctor is one of the great cultural contributions the > > Brits have had in the past 50 years or so. I think the whole > > series is available on DVD and would make a great Christmas present. > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Dec 9 08:56:02 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Dec 9 08:56:05 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Date? (Spiders and micromounts) Message-ID: <120920041656.28029.41B883A20004447900006D7D216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> I think Rock is just WAY ahead of all the rest of us! P.S., and I'm not British, but I knew what a Tardis was, too, cheers, Pete -------------- Original message from Kitty & Bill Heacox : -------------- > Small OT question...Rock, how did it happen that your message of a few days > ago came with the date for next Wednesday? > > Aloha, Kitty---who has enough trouble keeping in touch with reality and her > life in order without a time warp in her email! ;-)) > > At 12:48 PM 12/15/2004, you wrote: > > >In my collection is a cherished micromount from Tiger, Arizona. It is a tiny > >spider house assembled from micro fragments of wulfenite and dioptase > >fragments. > >Rock /rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at aloha.net Thu Dec 9 09:45:42 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Dec 9 09:15:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police {was:Date?(Spidersand micromounts)} In-Reply-To: <200412091451.iB9EpRJc016098@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <3k789p$jid4k0@mxip11a.cluster1.charter.net> <200412091451.iB9EpRJc016098@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041209074041.03a1fc00@mail.aloha.net> We receive a 50-page sales mag from BBC America Shop (possibly because we contribute to PBS), and they advertise two full pages of Dr. Who DVDs, videos, books, and replicas of robots. You can go to http://www.bbcamericashop.com/ Lots of other British series there too, in USA/Canada formats. Aloha, Kitty At 04:51 AM 12/9/2004, you wrote: >Luckily, I've got a "hacked" DVD player than can play UK DVD's (stupid >regional encoding Grrrrr). Looks like I'll have to haunt the used-DVD shops >in the UK when I'm over there to find the disks. > >GcB > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > > Tommy Armstrong > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:39 AM > > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors' > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police > > {was:Date?(Spidersand micromounts)} > > > > Dr. Who was a huge success over here for a certain subculture > > (mostly hippies and the cultural elitist types)--we would > > even have Dr. Who parties when it was broadcast. Actually the > > great Doctor is one of the great cultural contributions the > > Brits have had in the past 50 years or so. I think the whole > > series is available on DVD and would make a great Christmas present. > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.8 - Release Date: 12/8/2004 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.8 - Release Date: 12/8/2004 From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Dec 9 09:31:01 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Dec 9 09:31:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Agate SYMPOSIUM Message-ID: <120920041731.5437.41B88BD4000A859F0000153D216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Dear Rockhounds List, John Joldersma's note about the Roger Pabian's Agate Lexicon on the University of Nebraska website reminded me about an upcoming event that I've been meaning to post to this list about, so I would like to do that right now, as one of the organizing committee of this event. We'd appreciate it if any of you who read this would distribute it, electronically or in print, to any other clubs or groups you are in contact with. I can also email anyone interested a one-page flier about the symposium (a 260 kbyte file, because it contains a color image--if you ask for the flier, you'll get to see our neat agate photo, a "bulls-eye with cross-hairs" pattern agate from a Colorado School of Mines Museum specimen). Thanks very much, Pete Modreski. To interested mineral collectors/mineralogists/rockhounds, On Sep. 10-11, 2005, the weekend before the Denver Gem and Mineral Show, a mineral symposium on the theme of "Agate and Other Cryptocrystalline Quartz" will be held at the Colorado School of Mines campus in Golden, Colorado. The symposium will be Saturday and Sunday, Sep. 10-11, with optional field trips to area mineral localities on Sep. 12 and 13; the Denver Show is Sep. 16-18. The symposium, cosponsored by the Colorado Chapter of Friends of Mineralogy, the Colorado School of Mines Geology Museum, and the U.S. Geological Survey, is keyed to the theme of the 2005 Denver Show, which will be "Quartz and Cryptocrystalline Quartz". The symposium will include two days of talks on the mineralogy, origin, and worldwide occurrence of agate and other forms of cryptocrystalline quartz, with a booklet of abstracts and papers to be published; a welcoming reception and tour of the Colorado School of Mines Geology Museum; a Saturday evening banquet; and information about self-guided field trips to Colorado mineral localities. Registration will be $40; interested persons should write to Friends of Mineralogy, Colorado Chapter, P.O. Box 5276, Golden CO, 80401-5276, to register or to be put on a mailing list for further information (email pmodreski@usgs.gov). Anyone interested in presenting a paper on some aspect of cryptocrystalline quartz and related topics at this symposium (agate, chalcedony, jasper, chert, opal, geodes, thunder eggs, etc.) should contact Pete Modreski, U.S. Geological Survey, Denver CO, pmodreski@usgs.gov, or 303-202-4766. We think this symposium will present material that will be of interest to a wide range of collectors, curators, and professional mineralogists, and we hope that many of you will consider attending, and staying to see the Denver Gem and Mineral Show. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Dec 9 09:37:44 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Dec 9 09:37:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <002901c4ddd9$304163d0$ba85ab40@OPALVALLEY> Message-ID: Very well. First I downloaded , installed and registred OpenOffice 1.1.3 Then I tried to make a small database... then I frowned... Now I'm wondering: how the ... skip mild profanities ... do I do that. The help files are full of DBase this and DBase that but I can't make a new tabel and I can't import an Access database. Still, I get along with a complicated piece of software like Access pretty well... I don't THINK it's me... I may be wrong but I think that it's me. Maybe I missed someting in the way that OpenOffice approaches data? Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens webmaster@opalvalley.com Verzonden: donderdag 9 december 2004 11:24 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? I use OpenOffice and it works just as well if not better than MS Office. Sherry > I'm not sure if it would work, but OpenOffice might be a good, low-cost > solution. Low cost, as in "free". Access can be migrated and used, I > believe, with OpenOFfice. See: > > http://www.openoffice.org/product/dbase.html > > It all depends on how the databases are set up. > > GcB _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Dec 9 09:55:51 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Dec 9 09:56:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police {was: Date?(Spidersand micromounts)} References: Message-ID: <003301c4de18$52db4660$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Are you kidding, Axel?? Of course we got Dr Who over here! One of my favorite series. It was fun. Did you ever watch the original Star Trek series? Some of the effects and props used then are also cheezy by today's standards. The story is the hook...you get into it, and don't notice the production "details". After a while, it's very "campy" ness was the appeal. An original Trekkie...did my homework in front of the TV watching Captain Kirk and Spock! Jeanette the immensely popular BBC TV > series "Doctor Who". I doubt that it was ever shown on American TV... too > much carboard & latex aliens and home-made wheapons that looked suspiciously > much like kitchen appliances. ) > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu Thu Dec 9 10:29:15 2004 From: william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu (William Cordua) Date: Thu Dec 9 10:29:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Marcasite jewelry? In-Reply-To: <120920041731.5437.41B88BD4000A859F0000153D216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: Hi, I've seen some folks selling what they call marcasite jewelry which feature a clear stone in a silver setting ('the next best thing to diamond"). My students are asking me what this is as it doesn't look like their class-room marcasite. I've searched on line and found a zillion places to buy the stuff, but not much telling me what it is. So I appeal to the vast collective wisdom of the knowledgeable folks on this site. What in the world is this stuff they are calling marcasite? Thanks - Dr. Bill Dr. William S. Cordua Professor of Geology/Mineralogy University of Wisconsin - River Falls 410 South Third Street River Falls, WI 54022 715-425-3139 william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu http://www.uwrf.edu/~william.s.cordua/ "Speak to the Earth and it shall teach thee" - Job 12:8 From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Thu Dec 9 10:41:58 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Dec 9 10:42:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police {was:Date?(Spidersand micromounts)} In-Reply-To: <003301c4de18$52db4660$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <200412091842.iB9IgCOs027421@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Oh heck... Keep up the digression. If you have some of STTOS (The Original Series, as contrasted to STNG ) and slow down to single-frame advance you can actually see the string pulling props around. We've discussed it before... But from STNG on you see a LOT of agates and the like in officer's quarters. GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Jeanette Wimpee > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:56 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police > {was:Date?(Spidersand micromounts)} > > Are you kidding, Axel?? Of course we got Dr Who over here! > One of my favorite series. It was fun. Did you ever watch > the original Star Trek series? Some of the effects and props > used then are also cheezy by today's standards. The story is > the hook...you get into it, and don't notice the production > "details". After a while, it's very "campy" ness was the appeal. > An original Trekkie...did my homework in front of the TV > watching Captain Kirk and Spock! > Jeanette From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Dec 9 11:13:21 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Dec 9 11:13:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police {was:Date?(Spidersand micromounts)} In-Reply-To: <003301c4de18$52db4660$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: >Are you kidding, Axel?? Of course we got Dr Who over here! One of my Ahaaa!! There's hope for you yet! >favorite series. It was fun. Did you ever watch the original Star Trek >series? I think I saw 99.9% of ALL the Start Trek series ever made... My wife and I even raised our children according to Vulcan customs. At least we did it as described in the famous book by Dr Spock. (Now take the child by the ears and "slosh" it back and forth in the luke warm water until it is clean. Hence the pointed ears?) >An original Trekkie...did my homework in front of the TV watching Captain >Kirk and Spock! I still wonder... was the guy who designed the bridge colorblind? Aaaargh... those colors... Kirk and Spock: bad acting versus nonn acting Nichelle Nichols (Lt. Uhura) as the most underdressed trekkie of the decade... Axel From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 9 11:40:39 2004 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Thu Dec 9 11:40:41 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Microminerals from Sauktown Sales Message-ID: <20041209194039.24734.qmail@web51001.mail.yahoo.com> There's a new update to the pricelist on www.sauktown.com Fewer new listings than usual this month. Most are phosphates from the Sandamab Quarry, Namibia. As always, if you would like to be removed from my mailing list, please tell me. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Jazz up your holiday email with celebrity designs. Learn more. http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com From LarryRush at worldnet.att.net Thu Dec 9 12:10:44 2004 From: LarryRush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Thu Dec 9 12:09:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Advertisement References: Message-ID: <002401c4de2b$2ba1cac0$8a804c0c@fekib> Christmas Sale - 10% off any specimen at my web site (www.connroxminerals.com), plus Priority Mail shipping anywhere in the US in time for Christmas. Larry Rush --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From hammerron at yahoo.com Thu Dec 9 12:23:56 2004 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Thu Dec 9 12:23:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Marcasite jewelry? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041209202356.12322.qmail@web81404.mail.yahoo.com> Dr Bill: I've often wondered the same thing. I went web surfing and found descriptions like this site had: http://www.etronics.com/product.asp?stk_code=sil1377&store=&catid=6113 They make it sound like it is the marcasite that we know, but cut into tiny, reflective, "diamond like" pieces that give a silvery appearance. That's about all I can tell you! -Ron http://www.hammerron.com/minerals --- William Cordua wrote: > Hi, > I've seen some folks selling what they call marcasite > jewelry which > feature a clear stone in a silver setting ('the next best > thing to > diamond"). My students are asking me what this is as it > doesn't look like > their class-room marcasite. I've searched on line and found a > zillion places > to buy the stuff, but not much telling me what it is. So I > appeal to the > vast collective wisdom of the knowledgeable folks on this > site. What in the > world is this stuff they are calling marcasite? > > Thanks - Dr. Bill > > > Dr. William S. Cordua > Professor of Geology/Mineralogy > University of Wisconsin - River Falls > 410 South Third Street > River Falls, WI 54022 > 715-425-3139 > william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu > http://www.uwrf.edu/~william.s.cordua/ > "Speak to the Earth and it shall teach thee" - Job 12:8 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From bg at his.com Thu Dec 9 12:46:30 2004 From: bg at his.com (Catherine Gaber) Date: Thu Dec 9 12:49:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Marcasite jewelry? In-Reply-To: <20041209202356.12322.qmail@web81404.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041209202356.12322.qmail@web81404.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <67706BCD-4A23-11D9-AAFA-000A95A8FEB6@his.com> The marcasite used in jewelry is supposedly really pyrite, but I have never tested it or anything. Cathy On Dec 9, 2004, at 3:23 PM, The Hammer wrote: > Dr Bill: > > I've often wondered the same thing. I went web surfing and > found descriptions like this site had: > http://www.etronics.com/product.asp?stk_code=sil1377&store=&catid=6113 > > They make it sound like it is the marcasite that we know, but > cut into tiny, reflective, "diamond like" pieces that give a > silvery appearance. That's about all I can tell you! > > -Ron > > http://www.hammerron.com/minerals > > --- William Cordua wrote: > >> Hi, >> I've seen some folks selling what they call marcasite >> jewelry which >> feature a clear stone in a silver setting ('the next best >> thing to >> diamond"). My students are asking me what this is as it >> doesn't look like >> their class-room marcasite. I've searched on line and found a >> zillion places >> to buy the stuff, but not much telling me what it is. So I >> appeal to the >> vast collective wisdom of the knowledgeable folks on this >> site. What in the >> world is this stuff they are calling marcasite? >> >> Thanks - Dr. Bill >> >> >> Dr. William S. Cordua >> Professor of Geology/Mineralogy >> University of Wisconsin - River Falls >> 410 South Third Street >> River Falls, WI 54022 >> 715-425-3139 >> william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu >> http://www.uwrf.edu/~william.s.cordua/ >> "Speak to the Earth and it shall teach thee" - Job 12:8 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From tim at orerockon.com Thu Dec 9 12:57:13 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Dec 9 12:57:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Agate name site In-Reply-To: <58702C5E-49A6-11D9-8F0B-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> References: <58702C5E-49A6-11D9-8F0B-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041209125511.02e20cc8@mail.spiritone.com> Actually Roger's Pabain's agate lexicon has been posted to the net for as long as I can remember. It was recently moved so that is the reason for the low hit count. I bet the real number of hits is more like a couple hundred thousand... At 09:51 PM 12/8/2004, you wrote: >I googled a name for a jasper on eBay I had never heard of and was led to >a fantastic site. >http://csd.unl.edu/agates/agatelexiconletter.asp This is the Agate >Lexicon of the University of Nebraska, Lincoln. A list of over 3000 names >for agate, jasper, opal and other amorphous cryptocrystalline or >spherulitic forms of gem Silicon Dioxide. If you go back to the home >page http://csd.unl.edu/default.asp you will find an agate >bibliography, an agate page and an illustrated glossary of agate >terms. They also have good coverage of Nebraska fossil fish. This site >has only had about a thousand visitors since opening last January. Let's >encourage those hard working, clearly rockhound, Nebraskans with a year >end burst of activity at their site. Be forewarned! You will spend more >time at this site than you think. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Thu Dec 9 13:40:34 2004 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Thu Dec 9 13:40:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Marcasite jewelry? In-Reply-To: <67706BCD-4A23-11D9-AAFA-000A95A8FEB6@his.com> References: <20041209202356.12322.qmail@web81404.mail.yahoo.com> <67706BCD-4A23-11D9-AAFA-000A95A8FEB6@his.com> Message-ID: <41B8C652.1040204@xs4all.nl> The jewelry marcasite is indeed pyrite, because it is more stable. I also once saw guy on a mineral show selling huge (2-3cm) diamonds.... They where actually pyrite pentagondodecahedrons. But because pyrite gives a positive result on regular (thermal) diamond testers. He had a tester and of course showed the test result to everybody at his stand. aaarrgghhhhh. cheers, Maurice Catherine Gaber wrote: > The marcasite used in jewelry is supposedly really pyrite, but I have > never tested it or anything. > > Cathy > > On Dec 9, 2004, at 3:23 PM, The Hammer wrote: > >> Dr Bill: >> >> I've often wondered the same thing. I went web surfing and >> found descriptions like this site had: >> http://www.etronics.com/product.asp?stk_code=sil1377&store=&catid=6113 >> >> They make it sound like it is the marcasite that we know, but >> cut into tiny, reflective, "diamond like" pieces that give a >> silvery appearance. That's about all I can tell you! >> >> -Ron >> >> http://www.hammerron.com/minerals >> >> --- William Cordua wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> I've seen some folks selling what they call marcasite >>> jewelry which >>> feature a clear stone in a silver setting ('the next best >>> thing to >>> diamond"). My students are asking me what this is as it >>> doesn't look like >>> their class-room marcasite. I've searched on line and found a >>> zillion places >>> to buy the stuff, but not much telling me what it is. So I >>> appeal to the >>> vast collective wisdom of the knowledgeable folks on this >>> site. What in the >>> world is this stuff they are calling marcasite? >>> >>> Thanks - Dr. Bill >>> >>> >>> Dr. William S. Cordua >>> Professor of Geology/Mineralogy >>> University of Wisconsin - River Falls >>> 410 South Third Street >>> River Falls, WI 54022 >>> 715-425-3139 >>> william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu >>> http://www.uwrf.edu/~william.s.cordua/ >>> "Speak to the Earth and it shall teach thee" - Job 12:8 >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From Lapadary at aol.com Thu Dec 9 14:02:54 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Thu Dec 9 14:03:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] wangdoodle Message-ID: Tim, It is probably not a good idea to google "wangdoodle" when the kids are around. "Wangdoodle claim" is safe, or maybe -- "wangdoodle" opal -- but not just wangdoodle. Actually, I live in a college town. The local kids probably know what a wangdoodle is without googling. Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu Thu Dec 9 14:48:44 2004 From: william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu (William Cordua) Date: Thu Dec 9 14:48:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Marcasite jewelry? In-Reply-To: <41B8C652.1040204@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: This is intersting. I am seeing clear gems marked as marcasite. I'm wondering if some one couldn't spell moissanite? Dr. Bill C. on 12/9/04 3:40 PM, Maurice de Graaf at Mauricedegraaf@xs4all.nl wrote: > The jewelry marcasite is indeed pyrite, because it is more stable. > > I also once saw guy on a mineral show selling huge (2-3cm) diamonds.... > They where actually pyrite pentagondodecahedrons. But because pyrite > gives a positive result on regular (thermal) diamond testers. He had a > tester and of course showed the test result to everybody at his stand. > aaarrgghhhhh. > > cheers, > Maurice > > Catherine Gaber wrote: > >> The marcasite used in jewelry is supposedly really pyrite, but I have >> never tested it or anything. >> >> Cathy >> >> On Dec 9, 2004, at 3:23 PM, The Hammer wrote: >> >>> Dr Bill: >>> >>> I've often wondered the same thing. I went web surfing and >>> found descriptions like this site had: >>> http://www.etronics.com/product.asp?stk_code=sil1377&store=&catid=6113 >>> >>> They make it sound like it is the marcasite that we know, but >>> cut into tiny, reflective, "diamond like" pieces that give a >>> silvery appearance. That's about all I can tell you! >>> >>> -Ron >>> >>> http://www.hammerron.com/minerals >>> >>> --- William Cordua wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> I've seen some folks selling what they call marcasite >>>> jewelry which >>>> feature a clear stone in a silver setting ('the next best >>>> thing to >>>> diamond"). My students are asking me what this is as it >>>> doesn't look like >>>> their class-room marcasite. I've searched on line and found a >>>> zillion places >>>> to buy the stuff, but not much telling me what it is. So I >>>> appeal to the >>>> vast collective wisdom of the knowledgeable folks on this >>>> site. What in the >>>> world is this stuff they are calling marcasite? >>>> >>>> Thanks - Dr. Bill >>>> >>>> >>>> Dr. William S. Cordua >>>> Professor of Geology/Mineralogy >>>> University of Wisconsin - River Falls >>>> 410 South Third Street >>>> River Falls, WI 54022 >>>> 715-425-3139 >>>> william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu >>>> http://www.uwrf.edu/~william.s.cordua/ >>>> "Speak to the Earth and it shall teach thee" - Job 12:8 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>>> Subscription Services: >>>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From tim at orerockon.com Thu Dec 9 14:49:50 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Dec 9 14:49:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] wangdoodle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041209144042.02e1ee48@mail.spiritone.com> 1. I suggested googling for the Boise Club site, not the claim. 2. Gooling for the term "wangdoodle" brings up one "explicit" result on the first page, and a fairly benign one at that. You can always turn off the porn results in the preferences - I had to turn them on to even get the one result. 3. wangdoodle is also a poker game. 4. I like typing wangdoodle :) wangdoodle wangdoodle wangdoodle! At 02:02 PM 12/9/2004, you wrote: >Tim, > >It is probably not a good idea to google "wangdoodle" when the kids are >around. "Wangdoodle claim" is safe, or maybe -- "wangdoodle" opal -- >but not just >wangdoodle. > >Actually, I live in a college town. The local kids probably know what a >wangdoodle is without googling. > >Grant Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From tam2819 at cox.net Thu Dec 9 14:52:05 2004 From: tam2819 at cox.net (T.A.Masters) Date: Thu Dec 9 14:52:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] wangdoodle References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041209144042.02e1ee48@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <41B8D714.3080106@cox.net> I just wonder how many hits on this Google will get now? ;-) Terrie From markhp at xs4all.nl Thu Dec 9 14:52:21 2004 From: markhp at xs4all.nl (Mark Holtkamp) Date: Thu Dec 9 14:52:42 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41B8D725.2090009@xs4all.nl> Hi Axel, Ok i'll give it a try.. The nice thing about OpenOffice is that you can use several database protocols, like MySQL, JDBC, ODBC, ADO... but getting started may seem a little bit awkward and I don't think there is a wizard to do it for you. The first thing you have to do, is making a connection to your database by defining a datasource. Open a document, and use the menu 'extra/gegevens bronnen'. Mm I've got the dutch version, in English this would be something like 'tools/data sources'. In the data sources window, click the top-left-button named 'nieuwe gegevensbron' (new data source). Now fill in the tab 'Algemeen' on the right. If you want to connect to an existing MS-Acces database, choose 'ADO' in the 'database type' field. Now, in the 'Gegevensbronnen URL' field (data source URL) use the connection string (without the quotes) 'PROVIDER=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data source=C:\db.mdb' Use the full path to your database instead of 'C:\db.mdb'. Now if you press F4 you'll get a database window with your database in the left panel. Expand the items in the data sources tree to add or edit your tables and queries. Right-clicking on a table or query gives acces to the form and report wizard. Or you can use Windows' ODBC driver if you have it installed: http://openoffice.homelinux.org/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=9 If you want to create a new database: choose the dbase type as the new data source type and type the name in the data source URL field or use the ellipses button. (...). See http://documentation.openoffice.org/HOW_TO/data_source/data1_EN.html I hope this will get you going :-) cheers, Mark. Axel Emmermann wrote: > Very well. > First I downloaded , installed and registred OpenOffice 1.1.3 > Then I tried to make a small database... then I frowned... > Now I'm wondering: how the ... skip mild profanities ... do I do that. > The help files are full of DBase this and DBase that but I can't make a new > tabel and I can't import an Access database. > > Still, I get along with a complicated piece of software like Access pretty > well... I don't THINK it's me... I may be wrong but I think that it's me. > > Maybe I missed someting in the way that OpenOffice approaches data? > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens > webmaster@opalvalley.com > Verzonden: donderdag 9 december 2004 11:24 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > > > I use OpenOffice and it works just as well if not better than MS Office. > > Sherry > > >>I'm not sure if it would work, but OpenOffice might be a good, low-cost >>solution. Low cost, as in "free". Access can be migrated and used, I >>believe, with OpenOFfice. See: >> >>http://www.openoffice.org/product/dbase.html >> >>It all depends on how the databases are set up. >> >>GcB > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Dec 9 15:00:13 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Dec 9 15:00:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] wangdoodle Message-ID: <120920042300.10993.41B8D8FC000BB94B00002AF1215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> And let me say on my own behalf (maybe from not having been a college student for, let's see, 35 years)... I have absolutely no clue what wangdoodle means. (I suppose I could take a wild guess and probably be somewhere in the ballpark, or yes, go googling and be closer, but maybe I'll just do something else instead. Look up something about agate, or rhodonite, or opal, or marcasite...) happy Thursday to all, Pete -------------- Original message from Lapadary@aol.com: -------------- > Tim, > > It is probably not a good idea to google "wangdoodle" when the kids are > around. "Wangdoodle claim" is safe, or maybe -- "wangdoodle" opal -- but not > just > wangdoodle. > > Actually, I live in a college town. The local kids probably know what a > wangdoodle is without googling. > > Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Thu Dec 9 15:07:21 2004 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Thu Dec 9 15:07:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] wangdoodle In-Reply-To: <120920042300.10993.41B8D8FC000BB94B00002AF1215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <120920042300.10993.41B8D8FC000BB94B00002AF1215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <41B8DAA9.7050305@xs4all.nl> pjmodreski@att.net wrote: >happy Thursday to all, >Pete > > Great timing Pete! Thursday is just seven minutes behind us overhere :-)) Cheers, Maurice From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Dec 9 15:22:47 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Dec 9 15:22:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Marcasite jewelry? Message-ID: <120920042322.4165.41B8DE4700081DA600001045215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Perhaps you're right, Bill, about "marcasite" getting mixed up with moissanite. Or maybe the setting has (supposedly) marcasite in it, and some kind of transparent gem was just added. I also have always understood that facet-cut, metallic-shiny marcasite is a common feature of much older jewelry, and yes, that it's anyone's guess, whether most of this is really marcasite, or is pyrite. One book (World of Gemstones, by Duda and Rejl, Geoscience Press, 1998) says, "Small cut marcasites set in silver are now popular in Thailand.") Pete -------------- Original message from William Cordua : -------------- > This is intersting. I am seeing clear gems marked as marcasite. I'm > wondering if some one couldn't spell moissanite? > > Dr. Bill C. > > on 12/9/04 3:40 PM, Maurice de Graaf at Mauricedegraaf@xs4all.nl wrote: > > > The jewelry marcasite is indeed pyrite, because it is more stable. > > > > I also once saw guy on a mineral show selling huge (2-3cm) diamonds.... > > They where actually pyrite pentagondodecahedrons. But because pyrite > > gives a positive result on regular (thermal) diamond testers. He had a > > tester and of course showed the test result to everybody at his stand. > > aaarrgghhhhh. > > > > cheers, > > Maurice > > > > Catherine Gaber wrote: > > > >> The marcasite used in jewelry is supposedly really pyrite, but I have > >> never tested it or anything. > >> > >> Cathy > >> > >> On Dec 9, 2004, at 3:23 PM, The Hammer wrote: > >> > >>> Dr Bill: > >>> > >>> I've often wondered the same thing. I went web surfing and > >>> found descriptions like this site had: > >>> http://www.etronics.com/product.asp?stk_code=sil1377&store=&catid=6113 > >>> > >>> They make it sound like it is the marcasite that we know, but > >>> cut into tiny, reflective, "diamond like" pieces that give a > >>> silvery appearance. That's about all I can tell you! > >>> > >>> -Ron > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Thu Dec 9 15:27:25 2004 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Thu Dec 9 15:30:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police References: Message-ID: <002301c4de46$a6724480$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> Dr. Who series was very popular here a few years back. And we are in the "deep dark south" part of the USA. ROTFL! More comedy than science for sure. BTW last Thursday WILL BE a very good time! Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" Subject: Rock Busted by Clock Police > >The next weekly meeting of The Time Traveling Rockhounds Association > >will be held last week Thursday at our usual location. The following > >meeting will be three weeks away; please bring a specimen to trade. > > Dear colleagues, > > My TARDIS is currently under repair but I'll have it back tomorrow. > I'll set the dials for last Wednesday then to make up for the gained time. > > Toodles > > Axel > > (You really have to be British to understand this one... The TARDIS is the > time machine, disguised as a phone booth, from the immensely popular BBC TV > series "Doctor Who". I doubt that it was ever shown on American TV... too > much carboard & latex aliens and home-made wheapons that looked suspiciously > much like kitchen appliances. ) > From tangojuli at yahoo.com Thu Dec 9 16:10:12 2004 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Thu Dec 9 16:10:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] wangdoodle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041210001012.98011.qmail@web60804.mail.yahoo.com> Wonder how many blew google out tonite out of curiousity. Lapadary@aol.com wrote:Tim, It is probably not a good idea to google "wangdoodle" when the kids are around. "Wangdoodle claim" is safe, or maybe -- "wangdoodle" opal -- but not just wangdoodle. Actually, I live in a college town. The local kids probably know what a wangdoodle is without googling. Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From hptdesigns at charter.net Thu Dec 9 16:17:28 2004 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Thu Dec 9 16:13:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police In-Reply-To: <002301c4de46$a6724480$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <3khj1h$ebnjq7@mxip07a.cluster1.charter.net> ROTFL ????? You must mean the "highly enlightened South" Tommy > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Glenn Wimpee > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 6:27 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police > > Dr. Who series was very popular here a few years back. > And we are in the "deep dark south" part of the USA. ROTFL! > More comedy than science for sure. > > BTW last Thursday WILL BE a very good time! > > Glenn > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Axel Emmermann" > Subject: Rock Busted by Clock Police > > > >The next weekly meeting of The Time Traveling Rockhounds > Association > > >will be held last week Thursday at our usual location. The > following > > >meeting will be three weeks away; please bring a specimen to trade. > > > > Dear colleagues, > > > > My TARDIS is currently under repair but I'll have it back tomorrow. > > I'll set the dials for last Wednesday then to make up for > the gained time. > > > > Toodles > > > > Axel > > > > (You really have to be British to understand this one... > The TARDIS is > > the time machine, disguised as a phone booth, from the immensely > > popular BBC > TV > > series "Doctor Who". I doubt that it was ever shown on > American TV... > > too much carboard & latex aliens and home-made wheapons that looked > suspiciously > > much like kitchen appliances. ) > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From haroldsrocks at juno.com Thu Dec 9 17:24:17 2004 From: haroldsrocks at juno.com (haroldsrocks@juno.com) Date: Thu Dec 9 17:26:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] show dealers needed Message-ID: <20041209.192418.3728.1.haroldsrocks@juno.com> I have been on these lists for a long time and enjoy listening but very very rarely talk. I am on the board of the Central Illinois Gem and Mineral Club, located in Decatur, Illinois, which is in central Illinois about a half hour east of Springfield. We are starting to contact dealers for our spring show. This year, 2005, it will be on April 29, 30 and May 1, with setup on April 28. April 29 will be kids day, expecting to get a lot of school field trips. Show chairman is Bob Heim. He requested that I ask these groups if there would be dealers who are interested. His e-mail address is heimhaus@springnet1.com. Snail mail address: 16 Hilltop Dr., Decatur, Illinois 62521, phone 217-422-1075. Thanks, Harold Helmuth From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Dec 9 17:28:42 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Dec 9 17:28:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Star Trek; WAS Rock Busted by Clock Police{was:Date?(Spidersand micromounts)} References: Message-ID: <000e01c4de57$95fe2b80$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> > > Ahaaa!! There's hope for you yet! And you had doubts??? > I think I saw 99.9% of ALL the Start Trek series ever made... No doubt I've seen all of them, but I'll still watch an episode when I come across one on TV...that is when I watch TV. My TV watching has been seriously compromised by the computer. My wife and I even raised our children according to Vulcan customs. At least we did it as > described in the famous book by Dr Spock. (Now take the child by the ears > and "slosh" it back and forth in the luke warm water until it is clean. Uh, that should have been MR SPOCK you listened to...I believe Dr. Spock was describing pre-rinsing diapers. > I still wonder... was the guy who designed the bridge colorblind? Aaaargh... > those colors... > Kirk and Spock: bad acting versus nonn acting I loved Scott Bakula in the time traveling series, which due to CRS I can't recall the name right now. But I never could get into the lastest Star Trek rip-off, er spin-off. Babylon 5 either...too busy NOT watching TV nowadays. Rock related....just to see if anybody actually reads this..what is the shiny gold veins in rhodonite?? Just cabbed a piece and found nice golden veining in it. Almost makes one think it could be gold as in gold quartz....but I doubt it. Jeanette --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Dec 9 17:41:23 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Dec 9 17:41:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] wangdoodle References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041209144042.02e1ee48@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <004b01c4de59$5bb59920$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Oh, NO!! He said it three times!! You know how Beetlejuice shows up when you say his name three times??? If you say wangdoodle three times, you'll probably get Howard Stern. Jeanette Keeping it OT, Howard Stern has ROCKS in his head..... > 4. I like typing wangdoodle :) > wangdoodle wangdoodle wangdoodle! > > From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Dec 9 17:45:17 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Dec 9 17:45:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police References: <3khj1h$ebnjq7@mxip07a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <006301c4de59$e72c1ce0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> > > You must mean the "highly enlightened South" > > Tommy I'll set him straight on that... Jeanette From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Thu Dec 9 17:47:54 2004 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Linda Rasmussen) Date: Thu Dec 9 17:48:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] wangdoodle References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041209144042.02e1ee48@mail.spiritone.com> <004b01c4de59$5bb59920$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <008b01c4de5a$4546b060$675fe842@pavilion> jeanette, Still laughing, what on earth did I start ? Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeanette Wimpee To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 6:41 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] wangdoodle > Oh, NO!! He said it three times!! > > You know how Beetlejuice shows up when you say his name three times??? > > If you say wangdoodle three times, you'll probably get Howard Stern. > > Jeanette > > Keeping it OT, Howard Stern has ROCKS in his head..... > > > > 4. I like typing wangdoodle :) > > wangdoodle wangdoodle wangdoodle! > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Dec 9 17:54:55 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Dec 9 17:55:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] wangdoodle References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041209144042.02e1ee48@mail.spiritone.com><004b01c4de59$5bb59920$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <008b01c4de5a$4546b060$675fe842@pavilion> Message-ID: <007901c4de5b$3f83a9c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Seems to me like the weather is too bad for rockhounding, everybody's bored, and a little nudge sends us off into a little comic relief. ;-) Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Rasmussen" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] wangdoodle > jeanette, > > Still laughing, what on earth did I start ? > > Wayne > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeanette Wimpee > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 6:41 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] wangdoodle > > > > Oh, NO!! He said it three times!! > > > > You know how Beetlejuice shows up when you say his name three times??? > > > > If you say wangdoodle three times, you'll probably get Howard Stern. > > > > Jeanette > > > > Keeping it OT, Howard Stern has ROCKS in his head..... > > > > > > > 4. I like typing wangdoodle :) > > > wangdoodle wangdoodle wangdoodle! > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From morningstar at att.net Thu Dec 9 17:59:56 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Thu Dec 9 17:59:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] wangdoodle In-Reply-To: <007901c4de5b$3f83a9c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041209144042.02e1ee48@mail.spiritone.com><004b01c4de59$5bb59920$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <008b01c4de5a$4546b060$675fe842@pavilion> <007901c4de5b$3f83a9c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <41B9031C.90107@att.net> Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > Seems to me like the weather is too bad for rockhounding, It is NEVER too bad for mineral collecting, and especially if you are a micromounter, because every day can be a field trip. Don From Lapidry at aol.com Thu Dec 9 18:23:19 2004 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Thu Dec 9 18:23:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Star Trek; WAS Rock Busted by Clock Police{was:Date?(Sp... Message-ID: <55.683df619.2eea6297@aol.com> In a message dated 12/9/2004 8:29:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, geenet2@mchsi.com writes: I loved Scott Bakula in the time traveling series, which due to CRS I can't recall the name right now. But I never could get into the lastest Star Trek rip-off, er spin-off. Babylon 5 either...too busy NOT watching TV nowadays. Quantum Leap --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pbhewitt at comcast.net Thu Dec 9 18:25:29 2004 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul Hewitt) Date: Thu Dec 9 18:25:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Star Trek; WAS Rock Busted by Clock Police{was:Date?(Sp... References: <55.683df619.2eea6297@aol.com> Message-ID: <000601c4de5f$84d22340$6501a8c0@DellLaptop> Quantum Leap ... just for CRS's sake! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 9:23 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Star Trek;WAS Rock Busted by Clock Police{was:Date?(Sp... > In a message dated 12/9/2004 8:29:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, > geenet2@mchsi.com writes: > I loved Scott Bakula in the time traveling series, which due to CRS I > can't > recall the name right now. But I never could get into the lastest Star > Trek > rip-off, er spin-off. Babylon 5 either...too busy NOT watching TV > nowadays. > Quantum Leap > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Dec 9 18:29:05 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Dec 9 18:29:20 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041209144042.02e1ee48@mail.spiritone.com><004b01c4de59$5bb59920$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <008b01c4de5a$4546b060$675fe842@pavilion><007901c4de5b$3f83a9c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <41B9031C.90107@att.net> Message-ID: <008901c4de60$055e2860$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Excuse a stupid question but exactly what is involved in micromounting? I've seen pictures of some, and I understand, or at least I think I do, they are tiny clusters of perfect crystals mounted on a block or something. What I wonder is, where do you look for things like this when you set out of find some? Check the insides of geodes and vugs, for them? Then how do you separate them from the rest? Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don H" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 7:59 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] wangdoodle > Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > > Seems to me like the weather is too bad for rockhounding, > > It is NEVER too bad for mineral collecting, and especially if you are a > micromounter, because every day can be a field trip. > > Don > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Dec 9 18:30:30 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Dec 9 18:30:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Star Trek; WAS Rock Busted by Clock Police{was:Date?(Sp... References: <55.683df619.2eea6297@aol.com> Message-ID: <008f01c4de60$382cbfe0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Yep, that's it, thanks for reminding me...... Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:23 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Star Trek;WAS Rock Busted by Clock Police{was:Date?(Sp... > In a message dated 12/9/2004 8:29:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, > geenet2@mchsi.com writes: > I loved Scott Bakula in the time traveling series, which due to CRS I can't > recall the name right now. But I never could get into the lastest Star Trek > rip-off, er spin-off. Babylon 5 either...too busy NOT watching TV nowadays. > Quantum Leap > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From mosasaur47 at msn.com Thu Dec 9 20:46:52 2004 From: mosasaur47 at msn.com (Kenneth Quinn) Date: Thu Dec 9 18:47:06 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041209144042.02e1ee48@mail.spiritone.com><004b01c4de59$5bb59920$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <008b01c4de5a$4546b060$675fe842@pavilion><007901c4de5b$3f83a9c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com><41B9031C.90107@att.net> <008901c4de60$055e2860$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: > Excuse a stupid question but exactly what is involved in micromounting? I've > seen pictures of some, and I understand, or at least I think I do, they are > tiny clusters of perfect crystals mounted on a block or something. What I > wonder is, where do you look for things like this when you set out of find > some? Check the insides of geodes and vugs, for them? Then how do you > separate them from the rest? > First and most essential - join my Yahoo group. "Micromounts"!! Seriously, it is a matter of definition. The ultrapurists are satisfied with nothing less than a single crystal mounted on a pedestal! However, I have a loose definition - any mineral specimen whose features are too small to be appreciated without a microscope or at least a 10x hand lens, is micromount. Actually a micromineral, but I use the other term because it is more familiar. Many specimens, however are true micromounts, needing to be placed on some sort of support. There are several advantages. As Don points out, a well crystallized specimen from a good locality may yield many hours of delight as you gently break of pieces and examine them. For those like me, far away from mineral localities and in too bad health to do much field work, places like David Shannon Minerals sells raw material to be perused for micromount material. I should point out that some minerals never have crystals that are larger than micromount material. Also, as you go smaller, it is easier to find really nice specimens that have excellent crystals! I'm just scratching the surface. To answer your question of how you separate them, the answer is verrry carefully. More details if you wish. Northern Alabama, BTW, is noted for having several localities that provide excellent micromounts of phosphate minerals; the last time I visited Indian Mountain, several decades ago, it apparently had been collected out, but there are other spots. Kenneth Quinn From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Dec 9 18:56:50 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Dec 9 18:57:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041209144042.02e1ee48@mail.spiritone.com><004b01c4de59$5bb59920$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <008b01c4de5a$4546b060$675fe842@pavilion><007901c4de5b$3f83a9c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com><41B9031C.90107@att.net><008901c4de60$055e2860$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <00b301c4de63$e6048140$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Sounds interesting. I've noticed that some of the prettiest crystals are the small ones down in the crevices between the bigger ones. They protected the little guys from getting banged up. I for one can appreciate beauty in small packages..sounds fun. Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth Quinn" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 10:46 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? > > > Excuse a stupid question but exactly what is involved in micromounting? > I've > > seen pictures of some, and I understand, or at least I think I do, they > are > > tiny clusters of perfect crystals mounted on a block or something. What I > > wonder is, where do you look for things like this when you set out of find > > some? Check the insides of geodes and vugs, for them? Then how do you > > separate them from the rest? > > > > First and most essential - join my Yahoo group. "Micromounts"!! > > Seriously, it is a matter of definition. The ultrapurists are satisfied > with nothing less than a single crystal mounted on a pedestal! However, I > have a loose definition - any mineral specimen whose features are too small > to be appreciated without a microscope or at least a 10x hand lens, is > micromount. Actually a micromineral, but I use the other term because it is > more familiar. Many specimens, however are true micromounts, needing to be > placed on some sort of support. There are several advantages. As Don > points out, a well crystallized specimen from a good locality may yield many > hours of delight as you gently break of pieces and examine them. For those > like me, far away from mineral localities and in too bad health to do much > field work, places like David Shannon Minerals sells raw material to be > perused for micromount material. I should point out that some minerals > never have crystals that are larger than micromount material. Also, as you > go smaller, it is easier to find really nice specimens that have excellent > crystals! > > I'm just scratching the surface. To answer your question of how you > separate them, the answer is verrry carefully. More details if you wish. > Northern Alabama, BTW, is noted for having several localities that provide > excellent micromounts of phosphate minerals; the last time I visited Indian > Mountain, several decades ago, it apparently had been collected out, but > there are other spots. > > Kenneth Quinn > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Thu Dec 9 19:02:04 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Dec 9 19:02:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police In-Reply-To: <006301c4de59$e72c1ce0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <200412100302.iBA32FRY013451@bubbleator.drizzle.com> "Oh, I wanna go back to Dixie, Take me back to dear old Dixie, The Southland is where I wanna go be...." Tom Lehrer. GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Jeanette Wimpee > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 7:45 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police > > > > > You must mean the "highly enlightened South" > > > > Tommy > > I'll set him straight on that... > Jeanette From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Dec 9 19:06:03 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Dec 9 19:06:20 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police References: <200412100302.iBA32FRY013451@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <00c801c4de65$2fc1a6e0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> What? Are you an expatriated Southerner?? Jeanette >From down in the HEART of DIXIE - Mobile Alabama....can't get much farther south than that. South Florida does NOT count! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Brown" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 9:02 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police > "Oh, I wanna go back to Dixie, > Take me back to dear old Dixie, > The Southland is where I wanna go be...." > > Tom Lehrer. > > > GcB > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > > Jeanette Wimpee > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 7:45 PM > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police > > > > > > > > You must mean the "highly enlightened South" > > > > > > Tommy > > > > I'll set him straight on that... > > Jeanette > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From hbarwood at troyst.edu Thu Dec 9 19:07:36 2004 From: hbarwood at troyst.edu (Henry Barwood) Date: Thu Dec 9 19:06:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? In-Reply-To: <008901c4de60$055e2860$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: Hi Jeanette, Micromount refers to any specimen that needs magnification to easily view the crystals. Most micromounters operate in the 5-40X range. The show/display definition of a micromount includes anything that will fit in a 1 inch cube (box). In past years 99% of micros were mounted in Althor boxes that were 7/8 X 7/8 X 5/8 inch in size, but that has slowly given way to boxes that are a 1 inch cube. There are lots of sites on the web that give instructions on micromounting, and several lists are dedicated to the "wee ones". I'm the worlds worst micromounter, since I prefer to hot glue a chunk of rock in a box with the most photogenic side mounted up. "Real" micromounters spend hours preparing and trimming the piece and mounting it for the most aesthetic view under a microscope. Where to find micromounts? Just about anywhere. Good specimens of common to extremely rare mineral species are almost literally underfoot. Best way to find them is to read up on the minerals in your area, get a microscope (and a good light) and start looking. Henry Henry Barwood Associate Professor of Science, Earth Science Department of Math and Physics MSCX 312G Troy State University Troy, Alabama 36082 hbarwood@troyst.edu -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Jeanette Wimpee Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:29 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? Excuse a stupid question but exactly what is involved in micromounting? I've seen pictures of some, and I understand, or at least I think I do, they are tiny clusters of perfect crystals mounted on a block or something. What I wonder is, where do you look for things like this when you set out of find some? Check the insides of geodes and vugs, for them? Then how do you separate them from the rest? Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don H" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 7:59 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] wangdoodle > Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > > Seems to me like the weather is too bad for rockhounding, > > It is NEVER too bad for mineral collecting, and especially if you are a > micromounter, because every day can be a field trip. > > Don > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From morningstar at att.net Thu Dec 9 19:37:54 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Thu Dec 9 19:37:15 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? In-Reply-To: <008901c4de60$055e2860$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041209144042.02e1ee48@mail.spiritone.com><004b01c4de59$5bb59920$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <008b01c4de5a$4546b060$675fe842@pavilion><007901c4de5b$3f83a9c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <41B9031C.90107@att.net> <008901c4de60$055e2860$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <41B91A12.1060705@att.net> Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > Excuse a stupid question but exactly what is involved in micromounting? I've > seen pictures of some, and I understand, or at least I think I do, they are > tiny clusters of perfect crystals mounted on a block or something. What I > wonder is, where do you look for things like this when you set out of find > some? Check the insides of geodes and vugs, for them? Then how do you > separate them from the rest? 1) Use a tricorder; 2) Use the transporter with the Heisenberg compensator tuned to maximum discrimination. Or . . . First let me say that the hard-core micromounters don't consider me a true micromounter. I collect *microminerals*, a few of which I have mounted in little boxes. I have also purchased or traded for a number of micromounts. That being said, I have attended a number of micromount symposia, am involved in a micromount club, read the requisite books, and am otherwise fairly well versed in the lifestyle. So . . . You look for them everywhere! It is good to have a 10x loupe at all times; often you need a closer look at a small crystal that isn't quite a micro, but it also helps you find micros where you couldn't have seen them otherwise. At 10x, you will also see things that look like *something*, but you can't be sure, in which case you need a 15x or 20x loupe or you need to use a microscope. I will become philosophical here and say that you can find micros in any number of places where there are vesicles, pockets, cracks, weathering zones, or other places where small crystals might form. You simply need to sense things in a different way, to get close to the formation, to be curious, magnify things, and say "what is that?" The rare mineral juanitaite looks like tiny flecks of pepper to the eye, when you can see it with the eye at all. Under magnification, they are complex resinous bronzy plates. Recently, I was prospecting in an area best described colloquially as "gooey crumbly black crap," or, in geological terms, an amorphous, loosely aggregated, weathered, hydrated, indeterminate manganese oxide. I have seen collectors pass by this area with a scowl; I know they are looking for big well-formed crystals. This is what is called a "geological microenvironment," meaning it is a specific and small formation that has occurred due to very limited geochemical circumstances. In this case, once I dug deep enough, I found that an approximately 25mm thick fault-filling vein of galena cut through the host rock, providing an interesting catalyst for the formation of secondary minerals. Acid rain percolating through vertical cracks and faults in the host rock (there were several epsiodes of faulting in this formation) dissolved the largely calcite base rock, mobilizing calcium and carbonate and washing over the galena to liberate lead and sulfate. Unfortunately I have not had geochemistry yet so my theories on the sequence of formation are rather amateurish. There is also zinc, silica, and iron available in the formation, such that two prominent micro species appear: beautiful, water-clear, micro rosettes of hemimorphite, and a gossamer, reddish-orange latticework that I think is ferrihydrite--the conditions are correct--but I can't prove it. The hemimorphites alone were worth the effort, but then I see under the microscope some tiny, harsh landscapes of bright yellow, red, black, white, and pale green. What are all these things? They don't have crystal shapes, they are quite fragile, filling space like the flying buttresses of Gothic cathedrals, or hanging across a vesicle like lace tablecloths. My geologist advisor says this is the beginning of clay formation and a late stage in the rock cycle; he loves clay minerals, so this excites him. Clay minerals are a monster for beginners to ID, especially without what we call x-ray diffraction tests, so I do not love this. I collected many pounds of this fragile material, picking through it with dental tools, magnifying everything, looking to separate everything so it can be identified. There is still much more, in plastic containers in the living room and kitchen, waiting to be explored, hours and hours of armchair field trips. I asked Earl the geologist to map the faults (this involves something called a Brunton compass and a lot of eyeing things through it, and measuring angles, and strikes and dips, but I haven't had field geology yet either) and I took lots of photos. When I have geochemistry I should be able to trace the formation of the secondary minerals, since all the involved primary minerals are identified. Someday we will truly know the nature of this small outcrop because of such attention to little things. This is how micro collectors live. Indeed, there may be times when the only samples of a rare and expensive mineral you can afford would be micros of that species; there are some species that are ONLY micros and never grow larger than a few mm, or, in some cases, fractions of a mm. Also, the strangest forms occur in micros, such as Sugar Grove, WV, filiform pyrite that grows at right angles, little hairs of millerite in Hall's Gap, KY, geodettes, tiny inclusions, spirals, crystals perched on the tips of fibrous minerals . . . the list goes on. I tip my hat to the great micromounters. I share a kinship via my love of microminerals. Several years ago, an eccentric friend, Harvey, took my hand, slapped a little black box into it, and as he walked away while I stared at this thing, he said, "There's your first micromount. Now get a microscope." That changed everything for me. Don I remember From asgardsgc at earthlink.net Thu Dec 9 19:41:06 2004 From: asgardsgc at earthlink.net (Mark Easterbrook) Date: Thu Dec 9 19:41:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police {was: Date?(Spidersand micromounts)} Message-ID: <410-22004125103416322@earthlink.net> Axel, "Dr. Who" was shown for years on local public television in many areas around the USA. I have seen probably more than half of the episodes shown. Unfortunately, I have not seen it for a few years now. A made for TV movie, which featured the last doctor from the series was shown nationwide on major network TV about 4 or 5 years ago from what I remember. Yes, there is a loyal following for the series here in the states. Good writing and acting will always more than make up for low budget special effects in my perspective. Mark > [Original Message] > From: Axel Emmermann > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Date: 12/9/2004 5:54:22 AM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police {was: Date?(Spidersand micromounts)} > > >The next weekly meeting of The Time Traveling Rockhounds Association > >will be held last week Thursday at our usual location. The following > >meeting will be three weeks away; please bring a specimen to trade. > > Dear colleagues, > > My TARDIS is currently under repair but I'll have it back tomorrow. > I'll set the dials for last Wednesday then to make up for the gained time. > > Toodles > > Axel > > (You really have to be British to understand this one... The TARDIS is the > time machine, disguised as a phone booth, from the immensely popular BBC TV > series "Doctor Who". I doubt that it was ever shown on American TV... too > much carboard & latex aliens and home-made wheapons that looked suspiciously > much like kitchen appliances. ) > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Dec 9 20:00:42 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Dec 9 20:00:20 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041209144042.02e1ee48@mail.spiritone.com><004b01c4de59$5bb59920$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <008b01c4de5a$4546b060$675fe842@pavilion><007901c4de5b$3f83a9c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <41B9031C.90107@att.net> <008901c4de60$055e2860$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <41B91F50.5405@Tomaszewski.net> First you accidently drop a good specimen onto a hard floor. Then you sweep up the shards and carefully sort thru them with a lens looking for good micromounts and thumbnails before tossing it into the tumbler. If you don't want to wait for an accident you can take a likely rock and give it a really good whack with a big hammer. Good stress release. Or you can take the slow way and break up the rock bit by bit with a splitter. Or just follow after the hard rock collectors, and pick up the shards they leave from their swinging steel. Kreigh Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > > Excuse a stupid question but exactly what is involved in micromounting? I've > seen pictures of some, and I understand, or at least I think I do, they are > tiny clusters of perfect crystals mounted on a block or something. What I > wonder is, where do you look for things like this when you set out of find > some? Check the insides of geodes and vugs, for them? Then how do you > separate them from the rest? > Jeanette > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don H" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 7:59 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] wangdoodle > > > Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > > > Seems to me like the weather is too bad for rockhounding, > > > > It is NEVER too bad for mineral collecting, and especially if you are a > > micromounter, because every day can be a field trip. > > > > Don From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Dec 9 20:12:39 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Dec 9 20:12:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041209144042.02e1ee48@mail.spiritone.com><004b01c4de59$5bb59920$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <008b01c4de5a$4546b060$675fe842@pavilion><007901c4de5b$3f83a9c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com><41B9031C.90107@att.net> <008901c4de60$055e2860$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <41B91F50.5405@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <002d01c4de6e$7d20ffe0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Every time I've opened a geode, I've peered down into it, trying to see the "little" crystals therein. Maybe I've been a closet micromount enthusiast all along. Sounds like a whole new world. Jeanette Going now to go over all my rocks now with a loupe.... From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Dec 9 20:13:46 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Dec 9 20:14:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041209144042.02e1ee48@mail.spiritone.com><004b01c4de59$5bb59920$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <008b01c4de5a$4546b060$675fe842@pavilion><007901c4de5b$3f83a9c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com><41B9031C.90107@att.net> <008901c4de60$055e2860$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <41B91F50.5405@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <003101c4de6e$a522b2e0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> What would you call a "likely" rock? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 10:00 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? > First you accidently drop a good specimen onto a hard floor. Then you > sweep up the shards and carefully sort thru them with a lens looking for > good micromounts and thumbnails before tossing it into the tumbler. > > If you don't want to wait for an accident you can take a likely rock and > give it a really good whack with a big hammer. Good stress release. > > Or you can take the slow way and break up the rock bit by bit with a > splitter. > > Or just follow after the hard rock collectors, and pick up the shards > they leave from their swinging steel. > > Kreigh > > > > > Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > > > > Excuse a stupid question but exactly what is involved in micromounting? I've > > seen pictures of some, and I understand, or at least I think I do, they are > > tiny clusters of perfect crystals mounted on a block or something. What I > > wonder is, where do you look for things like this when you set out of find > > some? Check the insides of geodes and vugs, for them? Then how do you > > separate them from the rest? > > Jeanette > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Don H" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 7:59 PM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] wangdoodle > > > > > Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > > > > Seems to me like the weather is too bad for rockhounding, > > > > > > It is NEVER too bad for mineral collecting, and especially if you are a > > > micromounter, because every day can be a field trip. > > > > > > Don > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Dec 9 20:22:57 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Dec 9 20:23:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041209144042.02e1ee48@mail.spiritone.com><004b01c4de59$5bb59920$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <008b01c4de5a$4546b060$675fe842@pavilion><007901c4de5b$3f83a9c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <41B9031C.90107@att.net><008901c4de60$055e2860$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <41B91A12.1060705@att.net> Message-ID: <004b01c4de6f$edaa17a0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Way cool! Where was this? >From the responses of all the micromounters, you all sound very excited about this aspect of "rockhounding". It's seeing things from a whole new perspective. Jeanette microenvironment," meaning it is a specific and small formation that has > occurred due to very limited geochemical circumstances. In this case, > once I dug deep enough, I found that an approximately 25mm thick > fault-filling vein of galena cut through the host rock, providing an > interesting catalyst for the formation of secondary minerals. Acid rain > percolating through vertical cracks and faults in the host rock (there > were several epsiodes of faulting in this formation) dissolved the > largely calcite base rock, mobilizing calcium and carbonate and washing > over the galena to liberate lead and sulfate. Unfortunately I have not > had geochemistry yet so my theories on the sequence of formation are > rather amateurish. There is also zinc, silica, and iron available in > the formation, such that two prominent micro species appear: beautiful, > water-clear, micro rosettes of hemimorphite, and a gossamer, > reddish-orange latticework that I think is ferrihydrite--the conditions > are correct--but I can't prove it. The hemimorphites alone were worth > the effort, but then I see under the microscope some tiny, harsh > landscapes of bright yellow, red, black, white, and pale green. What > are all these things? They don't have crystal shapes, they are quite > fragile, filling space like the flying buttresses of Gothic cathedrals, > or hanging across a vesicle like lace tablecloths. My geologist advisor > says this is the beginning of clay formation and a late stage in the > rock cycle; he loves clay minerals, so this excites him. Clay minerals > are a monster for beginners to ID, especially without what we call x-ray > diffraction tests, so I do not love this. I collected many pounds of > this fragile material, picking through it with dental tools, magnifying > everything, looking to separate everything so it can be identified. > There is still much more, in plastic containers in the living room and > kitchen, waiting to be explored, hours and hours of armchair field > trips. I asked Earl the geologist to map the faults (this involves > something called a Brunton compass and a lot of eyeing things through > it, and measuring angles, and strikes and dips, but I haven't had field > geology yet either) and I took lots of photos. When I have geochemistry > I should be able to trace the formation of the secondary minerals, since > all the involved primary minerals are identified. Someday we will truly > know the nature of this small outcrop because of such attention to > little things. This is how micro collectors live. > > Indeed, there may be times when the only samples of a rare and expensive > mineral you can afford would be micros of that species; there are some > species that are ONLY micros and never grow larger than a few mm, or, in > some cases, fractions of a mm. Also, the strangest forms occur in > micros, such as Sugar Grove, WV, filiform pyrite that grows at right > angles, little hairs of millerite in Hall's Gap, KY, geodettes, tiny > inclusions, spirals, crystals perched on the tips of fibrous minerals . > . . the list goes on. > > I tip my hat to the great micromounters. I share a kinship via my love > of microminerals. Several years ago, an eccentric friend, Harvey, took > my hand, slapped a little black box into it, and as he walked away while > I stared at this thing, he said, "There's your first micromount. Now > get a microscope." That changed everything for me. > > Don > > > > I remember > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Dec 9 20:25:17 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Dec 9 20:25:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? References: Message-ID: <005101c4de70$40e269e0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Hey, a fellow Alabamian! How do you identify all the little things you find. Especially if one is rank amateur at minerals. Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henry Barwood" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 9:07 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? > Hi Jeanette, > > Where to find micromounts? Just about anywhere. Good specimens of common to > extremely rare mineral species are almost literally underfoot. Best way to > find them is to read up on the minerals in your area, get a microscope (and > a good light) and start looking. > > Henry > > Henry Barwood > Associate Professor of Science, Earth Science > Department of Math and Physics > MSCX 312G > Troy State University > Troy, Alabama 36082 > hbarwood@troyst.edu > From mosasaur47 at msn.com Thu Dec 9 22:32:26 2004 From: mosasaur47 at msn.com (Kenneth Quinn) Date: Thu Dec 9 20:33:05 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041209144042.02e1ee48@mail.spiritone.com><004b01c4de59$5bb59920$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <008b01c4de5a$4546b060$675fe842@pavilion><007901c4de5b$3f83a9c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <41B9031C.90107@att.net><008901c4de60$055e2860$6501a8c0@mchsi.com><41B91A12.1060705@att.net> <004b01c4de6f$edaa17a0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: Forgot to mention. I have a specimen of the rare mineral labuntsovite, one of those only found in micromount size. I found it in a piece of gravel in a parking lot in Little Rock, Arkansas. No telling where you can find good micromounts! Kenneth Quinn From mosasaur47 at msn.com Thu Dec 9 22:39:32 2004 From: mosasaur47 at msn.com (Kenneth Quinn) Date: Thu Dec 9 20:40:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? References: <005101c4de70$40e269e0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: > Hey, a fellow Alabamian! > How do you identify all the little things you find. Especially if one is > rank amateur at minerals. > Jeanette Actually Henry and I are both Alabamians, I just happen to be in New Orleans at present - the last 14 years really, but once an Alabamian always an Alabaman. Being a micromounter makes a mineralogist out of you. They are too small to do streak tests, run chemical assays (unless you have highly esoteric equipment), or do hardness tests. So, you go by color, crystal shape, and the nature of the rock that is associated. For instance, the labuntsovite I identified by its color and the fact it was in syenite. It is not as hard as you might think to learn about crystal shapes and such. I highly recommend John Sinkankas's book, "Mineralogy For Amateurs". Kenneth Quinn From morningstar at att.net Thu Dec 9 20:44:56 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Thu Dec 9 20:44:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? In-Reply-To: <004b01c4de6f$edaa17a0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041209144042.02e1ee48@mail.spiritone.com><004b01c4de59$5bb59920$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <008b01c4de5a$4546b060$675fe842@pavilion><007901c4de5b$3f83a9c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <41B9031C.90107@att.net><008901c4de60$055e2860$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <41B91A12.1060705@att.net> <004b01c4de6f$edaa17a0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <41B929C8.2060105@att.net> Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > Way cool! Where was this? >>From the responses of all the micromounters, you all sound very excited > about this aspect of "rockhounding". > It's seeing things from a whole new perspective. This was at the Sterling Hill Mine, NJ. In my 6 intense years of doing this, I have found, in general, that the micromounters and micros collectors can be the most friendly, knowledgeble, and generous of all. I deeply regret that circumstances have caused me to miss the last several symposia. It is like missing a family reunion. [pause] [rolling on floor like an upturned turtle, laughing] I just read your other post directed at Henry. At the risk of embarrassing him, I will tell you he is very well-known among the micro community. Ask him about the Coon Creek Gang (I think I got that right). Ask him about Arkansas phosphates too. I met him in person once, and another of my regrets is that I have never had the time to study at his side. He is a micro man for sure. I will tell you this much, now that I am not laughing: collecting micros really forced me into mineral ID. A lot of it involves working with others who know, being aware of the locality, having books and other references. For example, at a symposium, young Jason & Mandy Smith might bring boxes full of giveaways from the Foote Mine, NC, along with a species list and descriptions. Others will do the same with their favorite localities. Then the attendees might spend a great part of their weekend picking apart the giveaways, getting help from those who know what they are seeing. Sometimes you just don't know, but as long as you have a locality you have a good chance of finding out later; in this case, you mark the label as such, and put it away for later observation. Don From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Thu Dec 9 21:12:02 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Thu Dec 9 21:03:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? References: <005101c4de70$40e269e0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <005701c4de76$cafe7f00$36a6490c@pete> Wow, Jeanette, that micromounting question sure generated a lot of responses! Actually, I think that micromounters are just rockhounds who are chicken to tackle the more serious challenge posed by collecting big rocks--namely, where to find all the counter and shelf space to keep them! (as of course has been discussed at length in the previous thread on the list, with so many useful suggestions--of which I think I like Kitty & Bill's the best--shuffling them from room to room to keep one step ahead of the guests or of whatever else needs the space) But actually for real, I am very impressed by the knowledge acquired by most micromounters, who do get really good at recognizing (micro crystals of) so many minerals just by their crystal form plus whatever other (color, associations, etc.) clues are available. I've tried micromounting a (very) little bit myself, back a long time ago, but I guess I've never had either the patience or the time (take your pick) to pursue it in any serious way. I do sort of treasure the small (maybe 20 or so?) micromounts I do have, which I prepared in the "traditional" way, in the Althor plastic boxes of which I painted the insides with flat black enamel. Here's to all those folks who DO have the patience to do that! Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth Quinn" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:39 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? > > Hey, a fellow Alabamian! > > How do you identify all the little things you find. Especially if one is > > rank amateur at minerals. > > Jeanette > > Actually Henry and I are both Alabamians, I just happen to be in New Orleans > at present - the last 14 years really, but once an Alabamian always an > Alabaman. > > Being a micromounter makes a mineralogist out of you. They are too small to > do streak tests, run chemical assays (unless you have highly esoteric > equipment), or do hardness tests. So, you go by color, crystal shape, and > the nature of the rock that is associated. For instance, the labuntsovite I > identified by its color and the fact it was in syenite. > > It is not as hard as you might think to learn about crystal shapes and such. > I highly recommend John Sinkankas's book, "Mineralogy For Amateurs". > > Kenneth Quinn From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Thu Dec 9 21:05:55 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Dec 9 21:06:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police {was:Date?(Spidersand micromounts)} In-Reply-To: <410-22004125103416322@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200412100506.iBA566L3013163@bubbleator.drizzle.com> ST DS9 "Trial and Tribulations" The Best. GcB From Lapidry at aol.com Thu Dec 9 21:59:21 2004 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Thu Dec 9 21:59:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock Busted by Clock Police Message-ID: In a message dated 12/9/2004 10:41:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, asgardsgc@earthlink.net writes: You really have to be British to understand this one... The TARDIS is the > time machine, disguised as a phone booth, from the immensely popular BBC There isn't a rockhound around who wouldn't love to have the Tardis. It takes up the space of a phone booth on the outside yet has room after room on the inside. The perfect way to store rocks. They showed Dr. Who in the US for years, usually a year behind BBC. After all, Dr. Who was on the BBC better than 25 years. I was on a project in Seattle and made friends with a group who had friends in England who sent VHS tapes of the current episodes over. We'd meet one Friday night a month to watch that month's episodes. A whole room full of Whovians. What was the name of those nasty little robots? Darlecs? It really was a show that took watching at least a dozen to get hooked. I remember thinking people were nuts to like the show the first couple of episodes I watched. Dan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Fri Dec 10 01:49:02 2004 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Fri Dec 10 01:49:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? In-Reply-To: <008901c4de60$055e2860$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041209144042.02e1ee48@mail.spiritone.com><004b01c4de59$5bb59920$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <008b01c4de5a$4546b060$675fe842@pavilion><007901c4de5b$3f83a9c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <41B9031C.90107@att.net> <008901c4de60$055e2860$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <41B9710E.8020305@xs4all.nl> The best way of collecting micromounts is just to go out collecting minerals in general. But limit the storage space in your house to a tiny little cupboard. After you get home of your collecting trip you look at your finds under magnification. Most likely you will ask yourself, now I have to keep a fist size rock, but all that it is really interesting is only a few millimeters across. Then you wack it with a hammer while saying a little prayer that your interesting crystals survived. Search the debris, find your crystals back and mount them in a tiny box. After a while you get tired of hammering stones and demolishing finds and you will buy a rock splitter, or simply start looking for smaller rocks to take home. One lesson here is that 'micromounts' often grow in natural cracks. So if you see cracks of veins in a rock it is worth the effort to open it up. good luck, Maurice Jeanette Wimpee wrote: >Excuse a stupid question but exactly what is involved in micromounting? I've >seen pictures of some, and I understand, or at least I think I do, they are >tiny clusters of perfect crystals mounted on a block or something. What I >wonder is, where do you look for things like this when you set out of find >some? Check the insides of geodes and vugs, for them? Then how do you >separate them from the rest? >Jeanette > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Don H" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 7:59 PM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] wangdoodle > > > > >>Jeanette Wimpee wrote: >> >> >>>Seems to me like the weather is too bad for rockhounding, >>> >>> >>It is NEVER too bad for mineral collecting, and especially if you are a >>micromounter, because every day can be a field trip. >> >>Don >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Fri Dec 10 01:57:02 2004 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Fri Dec 10 01:57:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] labuntsovite, was micromounts??? In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041209144042.02e1ee48@mail.spiritone.com><004b01c4de59$5bb59920$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <008b01c4de5a$4546b060$675fe842@pavilion><007901c4de5b$3f83a9c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <41B9031C.90107@att.net><008901c4de60$055e2860$6501a8c0@mchsi.com><41B91A12.1060705@att.net> <004b01c4de6f$edaa17a0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <41B972EE.2020504@xs4all.nl> Hi Kenneth, What Labuntsovite (Mn, Fe, Mg) occurs in Arkansas? It is an interesting minerals, which does occur in delightful cabinets on Kola, Russia. Unfortunately the labuntsovite group got expanded with numerous new species recently and my older specimen are just labeled 'Labuntsovite'. Normally the old 'Labuntsovite' should be Labuntsovite-Mn. However in my own N'Yourpakhk specimen I could not find any Mn, but lots of Fe, with my own 19th century analythical skills. It suggests Labuntsovite-Fe, which is pretty rare, but analysed properly from N'Yourpakhk by Steffen Moeckel, a German collector...... Interesting new group cheers, Maurice Kenneth Quinn wrote: >Forgot to mention. I have a specimen of the rare mineral labuntsovite, one >of those only found in micromount size. I found it in a piece of gravel in >a parking lot in Little Rock, Arkansas. No telling where you can find good >micromounts! > >Kenneth Quinn >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From mosasaur47 at msn.com Fri Dec 10 05:41:29 2004 From: mosasaur47 at msn.com (Kenneth Quinn) Date: Fri Dec 10 05:42:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] labuntsovite, was micromounts??? In-Reply-To: <41B972EE.2020504@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: >What Labuntsovite (Mn, Fe, Mg) occurs in Arkansas? My information is that the variety in Arkansas is Mn. Kenneth From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Dec 10 06:20:00 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Dec 10 06:19:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds]NOW: Police Rocked By Busty Clock WAS: Rock Busted by Clock Police In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Absolutely Dan... I lost track of it because I had to choose between chasing girls and watching the Show. It's one of those things you carry along with you for the rest of your life... We used to have some cute youth-TV in the 60's and 70's on our national TV. They made some GREAT (and really camp ;-)) series for the summer. The kind of stuff you stayed at home for as a teenager in those days... On the other hand, in the aftermath of the Marshall-plan, we were flooded with some good All-American stuff too... The long hot summer, Dick Powell Show, Hawaii 5-0, The Invaders, Peyton Place, Mannix, Bonanza, The Untouchables, Dennis the menace, Lucille Ball,... People sometimes ask me why I have such good command over the American language... It's a miracle that I remember my own language ;-)))) Cheers Axel PS(t): the subject line... look at the subject line LOL -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Lapidry@aol.com Verzonden: vrijdag 10 december 2004 6:59 Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rock Busted by Clock Police In a message dated 12/9/2004 10:41:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, asgardsgc@earthlink.net writes: You really have to be British to understand this one... The TARDIS is the > time machine, disguised as a phone booth, from the immensely popular BBC There isn't a rockhound around who wouldn't love to have the Tardis. It takes up the space of a phone booth on the outside yet has room after room on the inside. The perfect way to store rocks. They showed Dr. Who in the US for years, usually a year behind BBC. After all, Dr. Who was on the BBC better than 25 years. I was on a project in Seattle and made friends with a group who had friends in England who sent VHS tapes of the current episodes over. We'd meet one Friday night a month to watch that month's episodes. A whole room full of Whovians. What was the name of those nasty little robots? Darlecs? It really was a show that took watching at least a dozen to get hooked. I remember thinking people were nuts to like the show the first couple of episodes I watched. Dan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Dec 10 06:30:41 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Dec 10 06:30:36 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police {was:Date?(Spidersand micromounts)} In-Reply-To: <410-22004125103416322@earthlink.net> Message-ID: It's the zeal of the makers that shines through... No doubt... Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Mark Easterbrook Verzonden: vrijdag 10 december 2004 4:41 Aan: rockhounds Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police {was:Date?(Spidersand micromounts)} Axel, "Dr. Who" was shown for years on local public television in many areas around the USA. I have seen probably more than half of the episodes shown. Unfortunately, I have not seen it for a few years now. A made for TV movie, which featured the last doctor from the series was shown nationwide on major network TV about 4 or 5 years ago from what I remember. Yes, there is a loyal following for the series here in the states. Good writing and acting will always more than make up for low budget special effects in my perspective. Mark > [Original Message] > From: Axel Emmermann > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Date: 12/9/2004 5:54:22 AM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police {was: Date?(Spidersand micromounts)} > > >The next weekly meeting of The Time Traveling Rockhounds Association > >will be held last week Thursday at our usual location. The following > >meeting will be three weeks away; please bring a specimen to trade. > > Dear colleagues, > > My TARDIS is currently under repair but I'll have it back tomorrow. > I'll set the dials for last Wednesday then to make up for the gained time. > > Toodles > > Axel > > (You really have to be British to understand this one... The TARDIS is the > time machine, disguised as a phone booth, from the immensely popular BBC TV > series "Doctor Who". I doubt that it was ever shown on American TV... too > much carboard & latex aliens and home-made wheapons that looked suspiciously > much like kitchen appliances. ) > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Dec 10 06:44:21 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Dec 10 06:44:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <41B8D725.2090009@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: I'll try it out... Got a "new table" made already so there's hope! Thanks 10^3 Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Mark Holtkamp Verzonden: donderdag 9 december 2004 23:52 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? Hi Axel, Ok i'll give it a try.. The nice thing about OpenOffice is that you can use several database protocols, like MySQL, JDBC, ODBC, ADO... but getting started may seem a little bit awkward and I don't think there is a wizard to do it for you. The first thing you have to do, is making a connection to your database by defining a datasource. Open a document, and use the menu 'extra/gegevens bronnen'. Mm I've got the dutch version, in English this would be something like 'tools/data sources'. In the data sources window, click the top-left-button named 'nieuwe gegevensbron' (new data source). Now fill in the tab 'Algemeen' on the right. If you want to connect to an existing MS-Acces database, choose 'ADO' in the 'database type' field. Now, in the 'Gegevensbronnen URL' field (data source URL) use the connection string (without the quotes) 'PROVIDER=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data source=C:\db.mdb' Use the full path to your database instead of 'C:\db.mdb'. Now if you press F4 you'll get a database window with your database in the left panel. Expand the items in the data sources tree to add or edit your tables and queries. Right-clicking on a table or query gives acces to the form and report wizard. Or you can use Windows' ODBC driver if you have it installed: http://openoffice.homelinux.org/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=vie w_page&PAGE_id=9 If you want to create a new database: choose the dbase type as the new data source type and type the name in the data source URL field or use the ellipses button. (...). See http://documentation.openoffice.org/HOW_TO/data_source/data1_EN.html I hope this will get you going :-) cheers, Mark. Axel Emmermann wrote: > Very well. > First I downloaded , installed and registred OpenOffice 1.1.3 > Then I tried to make a small database... then I frowned... > Now I'm wondering: how the ... skip mild profanities ... do I do that. > The help files are full of DBase this and DBase that but I can't make a new > tabel and I can't import an Access database. > > Still, I get along with a complicated piece of software like Access pretty > well... I don't THINK it's me... I may be wrong but I think that it's me. > > Maybe I missed someting in the way that OpenOffice approaches data? > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens > webmaster@opalvalley.com > Verzonden: donderdag 9 december 2004 11:24 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > > > I use OpenOffice and it works just as well if not better than MS Office. > > Sherry > > >>I'm not sure if it would work, but OpenOffice might be a good, low-cost >>solution. Low cost, as in "free". Access can be migrated and used, I >>believe, with OpenOFfice. See: >> >>http://www.openoffice.org/product/dbase.html >> >>It all depends on how the databases are set up. >> >>GcB > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From liz.fodi at utoronto.ca Fri Dec 10 06:55:08 2004 From: liz.fodi at utoronto.ca (liz fodi) Date: Fri Dec 10 06:51:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? References: <005101c4de70$40e269e0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <41B9B8CC.21C0B195@utoronto.ca> Get a book on mineralogy (not a field guide). Lots of suggestions as to just which one(s) will come from this list. Join a micro-mineral group. There a quite a few, though they tend to be shy getting information out about their existence. Start with: http://afm.w3sites.net/ Come to the various symposiums, conferences, workshops etc. Lots of rocks fill the givaway tables. At least some of the organizations put out extra scopes for those just getting interested. Micromounters give things away quite readily. . . even nicely mounted & labelled to get your ID collection started. They also love to see new stuff and delight in trying to determine just what it is you have found. Before long you'll be sharing what you have learned with those just starting on the journey. Liz Fodi From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 10 07:07:58 2004 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Fri Dec 10 07:08:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? In-Reply-To: <41B9710E.8020305@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20041210150758.35690.qmail@web51003.mail.yahoo.com> ACtually, being a micromounter doesn't save much space. I've been micromounting for over 20 years, and while my collection only takes up a few cubic feet, the extra material, material to be worked on, etc. takes up a 25 X 25 ft. room in the basement! As for trimming specimens, I use a spitter (non-hydraulic) much of the time, but also find that diagonal wire cutters work well. I've also heard that a manual pipe cutter makes a good, cheap trimmer, but haven't tried it. I think Ken, Don, Maurice, Kreigh, et al have answered most of your questions (and a few you didn't ask). You can find more on how to mount, etc. on my website www.sauktown.com and I'd be glad to answer any specific questions as well. Jim Daly --- Maurice de Graaf wrote: > The best way of collecting micromounts is just to go > out collecting > minerals in general. But limit the storage space in > your house to a tiny > little cupboard. After you get home of your > collecting trip you look at > your finds under magnification. Most likely you will > ask yourself, now I > have to keep a fist size rock, but all that it is > really interesting is > only a few millimeters across. Then you wack it with > a hammer while > saying a little prayer that your interesting > crystals survived. Search > the debris, find your crystals back and mount them > in a tiny box. > After a while you get tired of hammering stones and > demolishing finds > and you will buy a rock splitter, or simply start > looking for smaller > rocks to take home. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From res19ubk at verizon.net Thu Dec 9 14:42:16 2004 From: res19ubk at verizon.net (Dri-Anna) Date: Fri Dec 10 08:42:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? References: <3khj62$iuksmr@mxip13a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <002201c4de40$55e0b700$6401a8c0@Dri> Tommy: The Screenshots indicate you did a pretty slick job setting up this database. Tis' a Pity as I have Access 2000 running under XP. Dri-Anna Davis WA - USA http://www.twospirit.net/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tommy Armstrong" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:24 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > Dear Sally, > > Don Halterman and I have developed a mineral database for a mineral museum > and individual collectors(he pretty much designed the structure and fields > and I did the coding and forms basic design). > > There are a few caveats to it that you should be aware of however. > > It was created as an Access application and as such it requires a full > installation of MS Office 2003 and really needs to run under Windows XP. > It > integrates with Outlook, MS Word, Excel. > > It contains just about any field you might want and also the ability to > add > new ones. Since it is written under Access and all code is accessible, if > you want to learn Access, you can add to it. Also all the built in query > and > report generators of Access are fully available. Since it is extremely > doubtful that MS will ever discontinue Access and they will make sure that > previous versions will not become outdated. > > It allows the attachment of any kind of document to the specimen > (pictures, > pdf files, word files, etc.) and also the ability to creat a library of > pictures and documents that can be attached to one or more speciemns. It > will also connect to different onling mineral databases and mapping > programs > with one click. > > Now with the new full text search engines such as the very good FREE one > at > http://www.copernic.com/, one can then search those docs instantaneously. > It > is also my plan to incorportate PaperPort into the database for scanning > and > and OCR and pdf conversion. Very good program for $100 by > http://scansoft.com/paperport/. > > You can see some screenshots at > http://www.hockyjocky.com/mineral_database.htm > > I have changed a few of them to add a few micromount specific fields such > as > mounted, when mounted , and mounter. > > Drop me a note offlist and will answer any other questions. > > Tommy Armstrong > > "Creativity is the marvelous capacity to grasp distinct realities and draw > a > spark from their juxtaposition." > Max Ernst >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From geenet2 at mchsi.com Fri Dec 10 08:44:45 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Fri Dec 10 08:45:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? References: <005101c4de70$40e269e0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <002301c4ded7$8e76c5e0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> And how did you know it was syenite?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth Quinn" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 12:39 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? > > Hey, a fellow Alabamian! > > How do you identify all the little things you find. Especially if one is > > rank amateur at minerals. > > Jeanette > > Actually Henry and I are both Alabamians, I just happen to be in New Orleans > at present - the last 14 years really, but once an Alabamian always an > Alabaman. > > Being a micromounter makes a mineralogist out of you. They are too small to > do streak tests, run chemical assays (unless you have highly esoteric > equipment), or do hardness tests. So, you go by color, crystal shape, and > the nature of the rock that is associated. For instance, the labuntsovite I > identified by its color and the fact it was in syenite. > > It is not as hard as you might think to learn about crystal shapes and such. > I highly recommend John Sinkankas's book, "Mineralogy For Amateurs". > > Kenneth Quinn > From rainforest1950 at lycos.com Fri Dec 10 08:47:44 2004 From: rainforest1950 at lycos.com (rain forest) Date: Fri Dec 10 08:47:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Micros, macros, minis and . . . . Message-ID: <20041210164744.07FE5CA07A@ws7-4.us4.outblaze.com> I guess then, I'm none of the above. When in the field; I carry a day pack for the big stuff; while and the same time a jacket pocket has a loupe and 1" baggies. My shelf will contain 6" fluorite on sphalerite next to a 1/2" cavansite on stilbite; next to a 1" plastic box with a chip in it. No favorites. On one trip, I celebrated finding a 6x6 plate of tiny quartz xtls, but sat by the campfire with the loupe marvelling at rice sized pockets in a dirty brown cobble. or as the song goes "I Collect Rocks" David Bese The Rainforest Hippie Pt. Orchard, Wa. -- _______________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 From geenet2 at mchsi.com Fri Dec 10 08:48:42 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Fri Dec 10 08:49:06 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041209144042.02e1ee48@mail.spiritone.com><004b01c4de59$5bb59920$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <008b01c4de5a$4546b060$675fe842@pavilion><007901c4de5b$3f83a9c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <41B9031C.90107@att.net><008901c4de60$055e2860$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <41B91A12.1060705@att.net><004b01c4de6f$edaa17a0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <41B929C8.2060105@att.net> Message-ID: <002901c4ded8$1b801ea0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> When you say you pick them apart, do you take any particular solid rock from a locale, and break it open just to see what minute crystal structures or variations are inside?? And then try it again?? Or is it just vugs and crevices that get all the attention? Jeanette From geenet2 at mchsi.com Fri Dec 10 08:52:21 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Fri Dec 10 08:52:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Favorite Star Trek ; Was, Rock Busted by Clock Police{was:Date?(Spidersand micromounts)} References: <200412100506.iBA566L3013163@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <003101c4ded8$9e5b43e0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> The Trouble with Tribbles... Jeanette Ever notice how all the rocks on the planets they explored bounced like (big hunks of styrofoam)? Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Brown" To: ; "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:05 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police{was:Date?(Spidersand micromounts)} > > ST DS9 > > "Trial and Tribulations" > > The Best. > > > GcB > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From hptdesigns at charter.net Fri Dec 10 09:12:22 2004 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Fri Dec 10 09:08:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <002201c4de40$55e0b700$6401a8c0@Dri> Message-ID: <3khj1l$e5uk1s@mxip09a.cluster1.charter.net> Actually it will run under Access 2000, in fact the current version is in Access 2000 format. But the external links (what MS calls references ) are set to 2003. It is a relatively simple matter to reset them. It might take a 5 minute phone call to step you through it. And I do not think (I hope) that I have not used any of the new whistles and bells that are available in 2003--but I intend to. If there is enough interest, I might support both formats, but give me a note off line and we can discuss it. Tommy > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Dri-Anna > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 5:42 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > > Tommy: > The Screenshots indicate you did a pretty slick job setting > up this database. Tis' a Pity as I have Access 2000 running > under XP. Dri-Anna Davis WA - USA http://www.twospirit.net/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tommy Armstrong" > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors'" > > Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:24 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > > > > Dear Sally, > > > > Don Halterman and I have developed a mineral database for a > mineral museum > > and individual collectors(he pretty much designed the > structure and fields > > and I did the coding and forms basic design). > > > > There are a few caveats to it that you should be aware of however. > > > > It was created as an Access application and as such it > requires a full > > installation of MS Office 2003 and really needs to run > under Windows XP. > > It > > integrates with Outlook, MS Word, Excel. > > > > It contains just about any field you might want and also > the ability to > > add > > new ones. Since it is written under Access and all code is > accessible, if > > you want to learn Access, you can add to it. Also all the > built in query > > and > > report generators of Access are fully available. Since it > is extremely > > doubtful that MS will ever discontinue Access and they will > make sure that > > previous versions will not become outdated. > > > > It allows the attachment of any kind of document to the specimen > > (pictures, > > pdf files, word files, etc.) and also the ability to creat > a library of > > pictures and documents that can be attached to one or more > speciemns. It > > will also connect to different onling mineral databases and mapping > > programs > > with one click. > > > > Now with the new full text search engines such as the very > good FREE one > > at > > http://www.copernic.com/, one can then search those docs > instantaneously. > > It > > is also my plan to incorportate PaperPort into the database > for scanning > > and > > and OCR and pdf conversion. Very good program for $100 by > > http://scansoft.com/paperport/. > > > > You can see some screenshots at > > http://www.hockyjocky.com/mineral_database.htm > > > > I have changed a few of them to add a few micromount > specific fields such > > as > > mounted, when mounted , and mounter. > > > > Drop me a note offlist and will answer any other questions. > > > > Tommy Armstrong > > > > "Creativity is the marvelous capacity to grasp distinct > realities and draw > > a > > spark from their juxtaposition." > > Max Ernst > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From shm at tapnet.net Fri Dec 10 09:12:30 2004 From: shm at tapnet.net (SHM) Date: Fri Dec 10 09:12:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? In-Reply-To: <41B91A12.1060705@att.net> Message-ID: <000501c4dedb$700fbc20$c0e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> A few additional comments on this thread: 1. Carry a 10x loupe with you everywhere, every day. It's a whole new world in there -- not just with minerals, but with moss on a boulder, the underside of fern leaves (sporangia), and definitely, absolutely, with snowflakes. And don't get a cheapie, or you'll be disappointed. Get a Hastings triplet, or one of those Belgian beauties made by Rubin & Sons (Axel, did I get that right?). 2. One of the most famous and talented micromounters of all time, Neil Yedlin, said this: "I collect minerals, not sizes." That's good advice. It's wonderful to become a micromounter, and the point has already been made that many minerals occur only as microcrystals, or are best developed in that size realm, but it's also true that micromounting can be carried too far. If possible, it's best to select specimens where the mineral of interest is preserved in its full glory and context. When dealing with coarse-grained assemblages, that means big specimens. Breaking a specimen for the sole purpose of reducing it to some predetermined size can, in some cases, result in much lost information. What good is a tiny chip of roeblingite mounted on a spindle? Certainly it's better to retain the chip than throw it away, if the chip was found lying somewhere, or created accidentally, but anyone who breaks a roeblingite nodule associated with margarosanite, clinohedrite, etc. to produce 20 or 30 smaller specimens, most of which lack the associated minerals, should . . . well, maybe I'd better not go there. 3. Another of Neil Yedlin's lines: "Buy and use a good book." Don't spend all your money or time on specimens; devote much of both to learning. You may end up with fewer specimens, but you will enjoy them much more. The more you know, the richer the experience of collecting minerals will become. Nicely offsetting the cost factor is that you'll learn to enjoy minerals that are cheap or free, the ones that are passed up by the status collectors, because you'll be looking at minerals from a whole new level. I'm writing this as a mineral enthusiast, not a mineralogist (I'm a structural geologist instead), but please take my word on this. So: buy that loupe, buy that book, and get out there. You'll love it. Cheers- Earl V. From morningstar at att.net Fri Dec 10 09:19:45 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Fri Dec 10 09:19:49 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? Message-ID: <121020041719.9520.41B9DAB10004A5CE0000253021603762239D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Jeanette Wimpee" > When you say you pick them apart, do you take any particular solid rock from > a locale, and break it open just to see what minute crystal structures or > variations are inside?? . . . Not sure whom you are addressing here, but it could be me. Well, often, one looks for surface features that indicate a formation has lots of open space, or has been subject to weathering, or both. There is value in cracking both exposed, weathered material as well as fresh material. This is one of those cases where I find it difficult to describe, but I know it when I see it. Now, if you have a compact, fine-grained, unaltered rock, you are not likely to find open pockets or vesicles containing free-standing micros. However, when you break it, you may find microcrystals of things like tourmaline or apatite that are in the rock. These are more difficult to extract. Then again, if this rock mass has cracks and seams in it, you may find micros in there--really small ones, depending on the dimensions of the cracks. Contact zones are another good place to find interesting minerals--the places where there is an obvious fault-filling event of a different color, or where there has been an intrusion of igneous rock. It's like pudding skin: it only forms on the surface where the warm pudding meets the cooling air. All the rest of the bowl is just, well, pudding. You'd be surprised at how many hidden treasures are in the larger rocks you have. I bet there are a lot of people with Mexican adamite or hemimorphite on that brown, crumbly, "limonitic gossan" that have hidden treasures of legrandite, a related, uncommon, attractive, and more valuable mineral. While legrandite can reach several cm in length, with exponentially increasing price tags to match, typical available specimens are micros, and you can find them in your matrices at home (if you are willing to take them apart) or on giveaway tables at symposia. The list goes on and on! Don "I don't collect sizes, I collect minerals." -- either Neal Yedlin or Bill Yost, I forget which one. From mosasaur47 at msn.com Fri Dec 10 11:40:30 2004 From: mosasaur47 at msn.com (Kenneth Quinn) Date: Fri Dec 10 09:41:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041209144042.02e1ee48@mail.spiritone.com><004b01c4de59$5bb59920$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <008b01c4de5a$4546b060$675fe842@pavilion><007901c4de5b$3f83a9c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <41B9031C.90107@att.net><008901c4de60$055e2860$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <41B91A12.1060705@att.net><004b01c4de6f$edaa17a0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com><41B929C8.2060105@att.net> <002901c4ded8$1b801ea0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: > When you say you pick them apart, do you take any particular solid rock from > a locale, and break it open just to see what minute crystal structures or > variations are inside?? And then try it again?? Or is it just vugs and > crevices that get all the attention? > Jeanette It depends on the nature of the material and the particular locality. Usually you start off breaking a few at random, to see what the stuff is like. To put it another way, you wouold break big pieces to see if there were crevices or vugs worth extraction. So, tools range from a heave sledgehammer to wirecutters, pliers, and sometimes even tweezers. Kenneth Quinn From afox at drizzle.com Fri Dec 10 09:46:09 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Fri Dec 10 09:46:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Favorite Star Trek ; Was, Rock Busted by Clock Police{was:Date?(Spidersand micromounts)} In-Reply-To: <003101c4ded8$9e5b43e0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: We're getting a bit off-topic here. Let's please bring it back to Earth... a. -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From mosasaur47 at msn.com Fri Dec 10 11:46:07 2004 From: mosasaur47 at msn.com (Kenneth Quinn) Date: Fri Dec 10 09:46:20 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? References: <005101c4de70$40e269e0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <002301c4ded7$8e76c5e0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: > And how did you know it was syenite?? > Several ways. First, any granite-like material from Little Rock is almost 100% certain to be syenite, it is the only granitoid rock in the area. Any exceptions to that are very rare. Second, even if I found it in, say, a geology department collection and unlabelled, I would know it is syenite by the absence of quartz in a granite-like rock, along with its light color compared to gabbro and diorite. Also, there are feldspathoids like nepheline present, and they are indicative of syenite or at least of rocks deficient in silica. Kenneth Quinn From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Fri Dec 10 09:55:58 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Fri Dec 10 09:56:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Favorite Star Trek ; Was, Rock Busted by ClockPolice{was:Date?(Spidersand micromounts)} In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200412101756.iBAHuBt7031947@bubbleator.drizzle.com> ** sorry baas ** Back to earth... Let's see... How about... << dramatic pause >> Bad Geology ~or~ How come science in TV and the Movies can be SO WRONG. I love obvious limestone caves with lava running in 'em! GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Fox > Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 11:46 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Favorite Star Trek ; Was, Rock > Busted by ClockPolice{was:Date?(Spidersand micromounts)} > > We're getting a bit off-topic here. Let's please bring it > back to Earth... > > a. From murowchickj at umkc.edu Fri Dec 10 10:17:31 2004 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (J B Murowchick) Date: Fri Dec 10 10:17:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? In-Reply-To: <41B929C8.2060105@att.net> Message-ID: I'd like to echo what Don just wrote (below): working with micros will really hone your mineral ID skills. About a week ago, our cat stepped on a flat of specimens, mostly thumbnails but with micro-sized crystals, that had not yet been worked up and mounted. All were labeled, many with unpronounceable names, but were loose in small paper boxes. Well, the flat hit the floor, and when I opened it, I had a pile of 60-some specimens (some had multiple pieces) at one end of the flat, along with a bunch of empty specimen boxes with labels. I spent most of the afternoon and evening looking at the specimens, going through my books on Mt Ste Hilaire and Roberts et al.'s Encyclopedia of Minerals, and a few others before I had all the specimens back where they belonged. And I loved every minute of it! I've been so busy with work that I haven't had time to stop and enjoy the roses (or is it rosasite?). Also echoing Don--the locality information on the labels was crucial! I had several examples of the same mineral from different localities, and they were distinguishable by the matrix or crystal habit, or associated minerals. We can always correct a misidentification, but once location info is lost for a specimen, it is very likely that it will never be regained with certainty. Jim __________________________________________________________ Dr. James B. Murowchick Associate Professor Office: (816) 235-2979 Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall Fax: (816) 235-5535 University of Missouri-Kansas City E-mail: murowchickj@umkc.edu 5110 Rockhill Road Kansas City, MO 64110 on 12/9/04 10:44 PM, Don H at morningstar@att.net wrote: > > I will tell you this much, now that I am not laughing: collecting micros > really forced me into mineral ID. A lot of it involves working with > others who know, being aware of the locality, having books and other > references. For example, at a symposium, young Jason & Mandy Smith > might bring boxes full of giveaways from the Foote Mine, NC, along with > a species list and descriptions. Others will do the same with their > favorite localities. Then the attendees might spend a great part of > their weekend picking apart the giveaways, getting help from those who > know what they are seeing. > > Sometimes you just don't know, but as long as you have a locality you > have a good chance of finding out later; in this case, you mark the > label as such, and put it away for later observation. > > Don > From lanny at lrream.com Fri Dec 10 10:20:58 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Fri Dec 10 10:19:36 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? In-Reply-To: <41B9710E.8020305@xs4all.nl> References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041209144042.02e1ee48@mail.spiritone.com><004b01c4de59$5bb59920$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <008b01c4de5a$4546b060$675fe842@pavilion><007901c4de5b$3f83a9c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <41B9031C.90107@att.net> <008901c4de60$055e2860$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <41B9710E.8020305@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <3D562A2E-4AD8-11D9-86F9-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> "tiny little cupboard"? That's a myth or a big lie spread by micromounters to trick others into collecting micros for the sake of saving space. I'm a mineral collector, I don't collect "sizes" (i.e. thumbnails only, micros only, miniatures only, etc.); I collect minerals. My main interest is the mineralogy of localities that I visit. Thus, I collect the minerals in what ever size they happen to occur in. For some localities, they are macros only (or almost only, aren't many mineral locations that have no micro crystals); for others its micros only and for others it's a mix. Thus, I take home what I find, no matter the size. But it's a complete fabrication that collecting micros takes less space. First there is all that bulk rock to break up to find the micros. I'm sure a scientific study would prove that it takes 1 ton of rock to get 1 or 2 micro specimens. Kind of like the ratio of gold per ton or diamond per ton. After breaking it up and selecting the representative tiny crystals, there are all those thousands of little pieces (tons) of rock to dispose of. You can gravel your driveway only so many times! Then, there are the specimens. Being interested in the mineralogy of localities more than "having specimens because they are cute" I end up with many, many micro specimens from each locality, often 200-300. After all, there are so many differences in crystal form for each mineral, in colors, in associations, etc. They all have to be represented. Then there are those that are kept because they look fantastic (nothing like a micro for near perfection and aesthetics!). Then there is the size issue; I'm not a micromounter. I'm a collector of minerals including many in which the crystals are tiny (micros). They aren't trimmed down to a gnats eyebrow and they aren't trimmed down to fit in a little cube, they are the size they broke out in less the really excess rock. There is a lot more mineralogy in a cavity an inch and a half across with five or six different minerals in it or a rock two inches across with three cavities with different minerals in each one than there is in a single crystal viciously chipped out of it's home and glued to a cactus spine, impaled like a victim of Vlad for all eternity! Don't tell me collecting micros takes up less room. It takes up more, much, much more. That doesn't even include the space in your garage or mineral prep room for the trimmers, then the study room with its microscope, lights. etc. Saves space, ha! What laugh! Hold on a second while go put another floor jack under a certain corner of the house... Lanny On Dec 10, 2004, at 1:49 AM, Maurice de Graaf wrote: > The best way of collecting micromounts is just to go out collecting > minerals in general. But limit the storage space in your house to a > tiny little cupboard. After you get home of your collecting trip you > look at your finds under magnification. Most likely you will ask > yourself, now I have to keep a fist size rock, but all that it is > really interesting is only a few millimeters across. Then you wack it > with a hammer while saying a little prayer that your interesting > crystals survived. Search the debris, find your crystals back and > mount them in a tiny box. > After a while you get tired of hammering stones and demolishing finds > and you will buy a rock splitter, or simply start looking for smaller > rocks to take home. > > One lesson here is that 'micromounts' often grow in natural cracks. So > if you see cracks of veins in a rock it is worth the effort to open it > up. > > good luck, > Maurice > > From lanny at lrream.com Fri Dec 10 10:37:05 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Fri Dec 10 10:35:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? In-Reply-To: <002901c4ded8$1b801ea0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041209144042.02e1ee48@mail.spiritone.com><004b01c4de59$5bb59920$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <008b01c4de5a$4546b060$675fe842@pavilion><007901c4de5b$3f83a9c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <41B9031C.90107@att.net><008901c4de60$055e2860$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <41B91A12.1060705@att.net><004b01c4de6f$edaa17a0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <41B929C8.2060105@att.net> <002901c4ded8$1b801ea0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <7DC1D6CD-4ADA-11D9-86F9-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> It's everything. Minerals occur where ever they want to, and micro size crystals can be hidden in just about any opening in the rock. It can be the fracture surfaces which were actually opened just a little when the rock fractured before or during mineralization. Thus, a chunk of rock may be completely without any visible vugs, yet the suurfaces can be coated with tiny crystals. Break it again, and that facture you saw before breaking it, or didn't see, may provide surfaces with more crystals. I've collected at a few mines that have lots of cavities from tiny to large, with nothing in them. All the crystals are on those fracture surfaces. The micro crystals may be sprinkled on the macro crystals, and may or may not be obvious to the unaided eye. They may only be tucked in around the base of the large crystals, thus hiding unless you sneak up on them with a loupe or microscope. Another good spot is the back side of plates of crystals where the plates spalled off the host rock before mineralization was complete. This often provides a much wider depth of mineralogy than the large crystals on the plate for which the specimen was kept. This is common in miarolitic cavities in granitic rocks including pegmatites. These cavities typically burst before the crystals stop growing. The plates of crystals become detached from the walls, or completely broken up into single crystals. Tiny late stage minerals (and later secondary minerals) may be deposited anywhere on the pieces. We studied the mineralogy of the granite of the Sawtooth batholith in Idaho before it was closed to collecting. Out of the 45+ minerals identified there, about 30 of them were micro only with many of those on the back side of plates of large crystals. Take a loupe, around 10X, and look carefully when out collecting, it can be quite rewarding, Lanny On Dec 10, 2004, at 8:48 AM, Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > When you say you pick them apart, do you take any particular solid > rock from > a locale, and break it open just to see what minute crystal structures > or > variations are inside?? And then try it again?? Or is it just vugs > and > crevices that get all the attention? > Jeanette > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From tim at orerockon.com Fri Dec 10 10:46:56 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Dec 10 10:46:57 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bad geology In-Reply-To: <200412101756.iBAHuBt7031947@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200412101756.iBAHuBt7031947@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041210104530.02550df8@mail.spiritone.com> The "diamond crystal" in Congo. - yeah right :)) The entire movie "Volcano" - ditto At 09:55 AM 12/10/2004, you wrote: >** sorry baas ** > >Back to earth... > >Let's see... How about... > ><< dramatic pause >> > >Bad Geology ~or~ How come science in TV and the Movies can be SO WRONG. I >love obvious limestone caves with lava running in 'em! > >GcB Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From tim at orerockon.com Fri Dec 10 10:54:13 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Dec 10 10:54:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? In-Reply-To: <3D562A2E-4AD8-11D9-86F9-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041209144042.02e1ee48@mail.spiritone.com> <004b01c4de59$5bb59920$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <008b01c4de5a$4546b060$675fe842@pavilion> <007901c4de5b$3f83a9c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <41B9031C.90107@att.net> <008901c4de60$055e2860$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <41B9710E.8020305@xs4all.nl> <3D562A2E-4AD8-11D9-86F9-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041210104800.0257a618@mail.spiritone.com> The best "pretty" micro I have seen is the sceptered quartz on salmon pink stilbite from the Mill Creek quarry near Sheridan OR. It's the only micro I have because when I saw it projected on the screen with Guy Hammer's TV microscope at the only micromounters symposium that I went to, it blew me away. Hundreds of sceptered crystals and none was more than 1/16" or so. I only wish I hadn't traded those huge chunks of it to Jon Gladwell that day. BTW for those of you that didn't know, Guy passed away in relative anonymity last September. I met him off-roading in the Tillamook State Forest around 14 years ago & he was one of the folks who rekindled my interest in rockhounding. I am sure lots of off-roaders, geocachers, and rockhounds miss his presence... At 10:20 AM 12/10/2004, you wrote: >"tiny little cupboard"? > >That's a myth or a big lie spread by micromounters to trick others into >collecting micros for the sake of saving space. > >I'm a mineral collector, I don't collect "sizes" (i.e. thumbnails only, >micros only, miniatures only, etc.); I collect minerals. My main interest >is the mineralogy of localities that I visit. Thus, I collect the minerals >in what ever size they happen to occur in. For some localities, they are >macros only (or almost only, aren't many mineral locations that have no >micro crystals); for others its micros only and for others it's a mix. >Thus, I take home what I find, no matter the size. > >But it's a complete fabrication that collecting micros takes less space. >First there is all that bulk rock to break up to find the micros. I'm sure >a scientific study would prove that it takes 1 ton of rock to get 1 or 2 >micro specimens. Kind of like the ratio of gold per ton or diamond per ton. > >After breaking it up and selecting the representative tiny crystals, there >are all those thousands of little pieces (tons) of rock to dispose of. You >can gravel your driveway only so many times! > >Then, there are the specimens. Being interested in the mineralogy of >localities more than "having specimens because they are cute" I end up >with many, many micro specimens from each locality, often 200-300. After >all, there are so many differences in crystal form for each mineral, in >colors, in associations, etc. They all have to be represented. Then there >are those that are kept because they look fantastic (nothing like a micro >for near perfection and aesthetics!). > >Then there is the size issue; I'm not a micromounter. I'm a collector of >minerals including many in which the crystals are tiny (micros). They >aren't trimmed down to a gnats eyebrow and they aren't trimmed down to fit >in a little cube, they are the size they broke out in less the really >excess rock. There is a lot more mineralogy in a cavity an inch and a half >across with five or six different minerals in it or a rock two inches >across with three cavities with different minerals in each one than there >is in a single crystal viciously chipped out of it's home and glued to a >cactus spine, impaled like a victim of Vlad for all eternity! > >Don't tell me collecting micros takes up less room. It takes up more, >much, much more. That doesn't even include the space in your garage or >mineral prep room for the trimmers, then the study room with its >microscope, lights. etc. > >Saves space, ha! What laugh! Hold on a second while go put another floor >jack under a certain corner of the house... > >Lanny > > >On Dec 10, 2004, at 1:49 AM, Maurice de Graaf wrote: > >>The best way of collecting micromounts is just to go out collecting >>minerals in general. But limit the storage space in your house to a tiny >>little cupboard. After you get home of your collecting trip you look at >>your finds under magnification. Most likely you will ask yourself, now I >>have to keep a fist size rock, but all that it is really interesting is >>only a few millimeters across. Then you wack it with a hammer while >>saying a little prayer that your interesting crystals survived. Search >>the debris, find your crystals back and mount them in a tiny box. >>After a while you get tired of hammering stones and demolishing finds and >>you will buy a rock splitter, or simply start looking for smaller rocks >>to take home. >> >>One lesson here is that 'micromounts' often grow in natural cracks. So if >>you see cracks of veins in a rock it is worth the effort to open it up. >> >>good luck, >>Maurice >> > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From kadok at infowest.com Fri Dec 10 11:18:01 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Fri Dec 10 11:18:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Marcasite jewelry? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041210191800.12A41CBA4A2@delivery.infowest.com> I certainly haven't seen any marcasite that looks like that, either. It appears to be another of those "give it a fancy name" scams, where they take something common and try to make people think it's something rare and unusual. But they were not wise enough to chose a name that wasn't already well-know as an entirely different mineral. Or they figured (correctly) that most people would not know what marcasite was anyhow. And (probably most people would not question it and) go ahead and pay a big price for it. I saw advertised recently (in the Arizona Highways Christmas catalog), some magnesite jewelry - and it probably is -- although their description as a "unique black and white gemstone from Black Canyon City Arizona" is surely gilding the lily--! They're asking a pretty good price for it, too. But -- it looks very much like what you may remember, a few years ago, they were trying very hard to sell people as "white turquoise". Great traffic nowadays in the "P.T. Barnum" type sales! Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of William Cordua Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:29 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Marcasite jewelry? Hi, I've seen some folks selling what they call marcasite jewelry which feature a clear stone in a silver setting ('the next best thing to diamond"). My students are asking me what this is as it doesn't look like their class-room marcasite. I've searched on line and found a zillion places to buy the stuff, but not much telling me what it is. So I appeal to the vast collective wisdom of the knowledgeable folks on this site. What in the world is this stuff they are calling marcasite? Thanks - Dr. Bill Dr. William S. Cordua Professor of Geology/Mineralogy University of Wisconsin - River Falls 410 South Third Street River Falls, WI 54022 715-425-3139 william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu http://www.uwrf.edu/~william.s.cordua/ "Speak to the Earth and it shall teach thee" - Job 12:8 _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Fri Dec 10 12:04:40 2004 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Fri Dec 10 12:04:41 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? In-Reply-To: <3D562A2E-4AD8-11D9-86F9-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041209144042.02e1ee48@mail.spiritone.com><004b01c4de59$5bb59920$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <008b01c4de5a$4546b060$675fe842@pavilion><007901c4de5b$3f83a9c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <41B9031C.90107@att.net> <008901c4de60$055e2860$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <41B9710E.8020305@xs4all.nl> <3D562A2E-4AD8-11D9-86F9-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <41BA0158.7090300@xs4all.nl> "tiny little cupboard"? > > That's a myth or a big lie spread by micromounters to trick others > into collecting micros for the sake of saving space. That is the problem. Because MM tend to consume less space, you WILL get more of them until you grow out of room. I think all of us have the same 'shrinking house' problem as I have, no matter what sizes of rocks have. Even if we would decide to nail down our collection to loose grains of 'increadiblehardtofindite' , we would have one capsule with THE mineral under a glass dome and the rest of the space will be filled with equipement, maps and references in order to find another specimen. Not to mention the huge spoil heap you handpicked in the back garden :-) I too collect minerals in the first place, but when I can choose between a large and a small rock of the same quality the small one wins for space reasons. (generally....) Cheers, Maurice > > I'm a mineral collector, I don't collect "sizes" (i.e. thumbnails > only, micros only, miniatures only, etc.); I collect minerals. My main > interest is the mineralogy of localities that I visit. Thus, I collect > the minerals in what ever size they happen to occur in. For some > localities, they are macros only (or almost only, aren't many mineral > locations that have no micro crystals); for others its micros only and > for others it's a mix. Thus, I take home what I find, no matter the size. > > But it's a complete fabrication that collecting micros takes less > space. First there is all that bulk rock to break up to find the > micros. I'm sure a scientific study would prove that it takes 1 ton of > rock to get 1 or 2 micro specimens. Kind of like the ratio of gold per > ton or diamond per ton. > > After breaking it up and selecting the representative tiny crystals, > there are all those thousands of little pieces (tons) of rock to > dispose of. You can gravel your driveway only so many times! > > Then, there are the specimens. Being interested in the mineralogy of > localities more than "having specimens because they are cute" I end up > with many, many micro specimens from each locality, often 200-300. > After all, there are so many differences in crystal form for each > mineral, in colors, in associations, etc. They all have to be > represented. Then there are those that are kept because they look > fantastic (nothing like a micro for near perfection and aesthetics!). > > Then there is the size issue; I'm not a micromounter. I'm a collector > of minerals including many in which the crystals are tiny (micros). > They aren't trimmed down to a gnats eyebrow and they aren't trimmed > down to fit in a little cube, they are the size they broke out in less > the really excess rock. There is a lot more mineralogy in a cavity an > inch and a half across with five or six different minerals in it or a > rock two inches across with three cavities with different minerals in > each one than there is in a single crystal viciously chipped out of > it's home and glued to a cactus spine, impaled like a victim of Vlad > for all eternity! > > Don't tell me collecting micros takes up less room. It takes up more, > much, much more. That doesn't even include the space in your garage or > mineral prep room for the trimmers, then the study room with its > microscope, lights. etc. > > Saves space, ha! What laugh! Hold on a second while go put another > floor jack under a certain corner of the house... > > Lanny > > > On Dec 10, 2004, at 1:49 AM, Maurice de Graaf wrote: > >> The best way of collecting micromounts is just to go out collecting >> minerals in general. But limit the storage space in your house to a >> tiny little cupboard. After you get home of your collecting trip you >> look at your finds under magnification. Most likely you will ask >> yourself, now I have to keep a fist size rock, but all that it is >> really interesting is only a few millimeters across. Then you wack it >> with a hammer while saying a little prayer that your interesting >> crystals survived. Search the debris, find your crystals back and >> mount them in a tiny box. >> After a while you get tired of hammering stones and demolishing finds >> and you will buy a rock splitter, or simply start looking for smaller >> rocks to take home. >> >> One lesson here is that 'micromounts' often grow in natural cracks. >> So if you see cracks of veins in a rock it is worth the effort to >> open it up. >> >> good luck, >> Maurice >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Dec 10 12:09:29 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Dec 10 12:06:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041209144042.02e1ee48@mail.spiritone.com><004b01c4de59$5bb59920$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <008b01c4de5a$4546b060$675fe842@pavilion><007901c4de5b$3f83a9c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com><41B9031C.90107@att.net> <008901c4de60$055e2860$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <41B91F50.5405@Tomaszewski.net> <003101c4de6e$a522b2e0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <41BA01E0.23A2@Tomaszewski.net> Something with little vugs, cracks, seams, or an interface between two types of rocks where you are likely to find little crystals. Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > > What would you call a "likely" rock? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 10:00 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? > > > First you accidently drop a good specimen onto a hard floor. Then you > > sweep up the shards and carefully sort thru them with a lens looking for > > good micromounts and thumbnails before tossing it into the tumbler. > > > > If you don't want to wait for an accident you can take a likely rock and > > give it a really good whack with a big hammer. Good stress release. > > > > Or you can take the slow way and break up the rock bit by bit with a > > splitter. > > > > Or just follow after the hard rock collectors, and pick up the shards > > they leave from their swinging steel. > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > > > > > > Excuse a stupid question but exactly what is involved in micromounting? > I've > > > seen pictures of some, and I understand, or at least I think I do, they > are > > > tiny clusters of perfect crystals mounted on a block or something. What > I > > > wonder is, where do you look for things like this when you set out of > find > > > some? Check the insides of geodes and vugs, for them? Then how do you > > > separate them from the rest? > > > Jeanette > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Don H" > > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 7:59 PM > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] wangdoodle > > > > > > > Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > > > > > Seems to me like the weather is too bad for rockhounding, > > > > > > > > It is NEVER too bad for mineral collecting, and especially if you are > a > > > > micromounter, because every day can be a field trip. > > > > > > > > Don > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Fri Dec 10 20:25:12 2004 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Fri Dec 10 20:25:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bad geology Message-ID: <85.1cb42979.2eebd0a8@aol.com> How 'bout dinosaur DNA being found in Dominican Amber (Miocene/Oligocene)? That is the one that always bugged me. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE In a message dated 12/10/2004 1:48:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, tim@orerockon.com writes: The "diamond crystal" in Congo. - yeah right :)) The entire movie "Volcano" - ditto At 09:55 AM 12/10/2004, you wrote: >** sorry baas ** > >Back to earth... > >Let's see... How about... > ><< dramatic pause >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Fri Dec 10 20:25:13 2004 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Fri Dec 10 20:25:20 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? Message-ID: <36.67d5bca3.2eebd0a9@aol.com> I'd love to see what you folks have done. I too have only Office Pro 2000 including Access. My rela interest is to see what fields you have set up and what it will take to turn it into a fossil data base... Gene Hartstein Newark, DE --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Fri Dec 10 22:09:43 2004 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Fri Dec 10 22:09:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <36.67d5bca3.2eebd0a9@aol.com> References: <36.67d5bca3.2eebd0a9@aol.com> Message-ID: <41BA8F27.6000706@xs4all.nl> I use MSAccess and it is a fine database program, provided you take care about some 'bugs'. The most important bug is that you'd better not use memo fields. Especially in larger databases they tend to screw up. I think my personal database has a LOT of fields. I use my database not only for keeping track of my collection, but also as a sort of private (and better :-) ) Mindat. I started building in 1991. The relational database consists of 16 tables with in total 135 fields. Basically I have made one large table with all IMA minerals and about 25 fields, regarding mineral properties. This table is linked to a collection table with data about my specimen. But it is also linked to a large locality table. Since I work with GIS (digital mapping) the locality database is ODBC linked to digital mapping software. So with the right queries I could generate a world map of my collection :-) I assume these possibilities go way beyond the needs of an average collector. My database serves as a kind of 'brain' where I can store information that I want to retrieve easily. It is not my goal to really fill up all the 135 fields. Here a few considerations: Each record has to have a unique key. In a collectiondatabase a record is a specimen. So you must number or code your specimen. Think about how you are going to do that before designing a database. My system is, I just started with 0001. Each specimen gets an inidivual number, which does not carry any information about the specimen. Most of my specimen have different minerals in them. I give them a letter. So the piece is numbered 0967, and then 0967a is Eudialyte and 0967b is the Astrophyllite in the same specimen. The specimen should be stored in drawer E, because the 0967a is eudialyte. My collection table itself contains not too many field, only number, size, locality, type loc (y/n), paragenese, genese, remark and habitus. In designing a database it is paramount to make it fool proof. So design it in such a way that you can not enter misspellings (I'm very good in making errors, so it's vital my database corrects me :-) ). Also try to avoid redundancy. It's good in aeroplanes, but not in databases. This means if you have 35 specimen from the Tsumeb mine, Namibia, make your database so that you do not have to type 'Tsumeb mine, Namibia'" 35 times. It induces errors and if you later want to alter the mine name in "Tsumeb mine,Otjikoto Region, Namibia" it is a lot of work. You can do all this by designing a relational database. It looks difficult at first if you do not have any database experience, but it is worth the effort. cheers, Maurice FOSSILNUT@aol.com wrote: >I'd love to see what you folks have done. I too have only Office Pro 2000 >including Access. My rela interest is to see what fields you have set up and what >it will take to turn it into a fossil data base... > >Gene Hartstein >Newark, DE > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sat Dec 11 04:25:54 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sat Dec 11 04:26:31 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? In-Reply-To: <3D562A2E-4AD8-11D9-86F9-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <000001c4df7c$937bf650$4a68c950@maxdata> *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Lanny *Sent: vrijdag 10 december 2004 19:21 *To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors *Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? * * *"tiny little cupboard"? * *That's a myth or a big lie spread by micromounters to trick others into collecting micros for the sake of saving space. I'm a mineral collector, I don't collect "sizes" (i.e. thumbnails only, micros only, miniatures only, etc.); I collect minerals. My main interest is the mineralogy of localities that I visit. Thus, I collect the minerals in what ever size they happen to occur in. For some localities, they are macros only (or almost only, aren't many mineral locations that have no micro crystals); for others its micros only and for others it's a mix. Thus, I take home what I find, no matter the size. * >>>>>>> AMEN ! I collect "minerals", not "formats". Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ From mikeflan at earthlink.net Sat Dec 11 05:01:32 2004 From: mikeflan at earthlink.net (Mike Flannigan) Date: Sat Dec 11 04:59:15 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? References: <200412092249.iB9Mn2j3007761@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <41BAEFAC.73F9227C@earthlink.net> I'm glad to hear that. Last I tried the Excel counterpart (more than 3 years ago), it had trouble importing my 40,000+ line Excel files. I hope to try it again in the future. Mike Flannigan On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, webmaster@opalvalley.com wrote: > I use OpenOffice and it works just as well if not better than MS Office. > > Sherry From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 11 07:22:41 2004 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sat Dec 11 07:22:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <41BA8F27.6000706@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20041211152241.48708.qmail@web51003.mail.yahoo.com> I agree that it's worthwhile to learn Access and design your own database, at least until a "universal" database that would allow everyone to exchange data comes along. Everyone has their own idea of what data they want to store, and how to arrange it. For example, I don't include data on the properties of the minerals. I can look that up in many references. Of course, if it were available in a form here I could import it, I would probably do so. I chose to have separate fields for "entry number", the unique field, and "specimen number". Thus all the minerals on a given specimen have the same specimen number, but are unique entries. De gustibus non disputandum (if I remember my latin) Jim Daly Sauktown Sales www.sauktown.com --- Maurice de Graaf wrote: > I use MSAccess and it is a fine database program, > provided you take care > about some 'bugs'. The most important bug is that > you'd better not use > memo fields. Especially in larger databases they > tend to screw up. > > I think my personal database has a LOT of fields. I > use my database not > only for keeping track of my collection, but also as > a sort of private > (and better :-) ) Mindat. I started building in > 1991. The relational > database consists of 16 tables with in total 135 > fields. Basically I > have made one large table with all IMA minerals and > about 25 fields, > regarding mineral properties. This table is linked > to a collection table > with data about my specimen. But it is also linked > to a large locality > table. Since I work with GIS (digital mapping) the > locality database is > ODBC linked to digital mapping software. So with the > right queries I > could generate a world map of my collection :-) I > assume these > possibilities go way beyond the needs of an average > collector. > > My database serves as a kind of 'brain' where I can > store information > that I want to retrieve easily. It is not my goal to > really fill up all > the 135 fields. > > Here a few considerations: > > Each record has to have a unique key. In a > collectiondatabase a record > is a specimen. So you must number or code your > specimen. Think about how > you are going to do that before designing a > database. My system is, I > just started with 0001. Each specimen gets an > inidivual number, which > does not carry any information about the specimen. > Most of my specimen > have different minerals in them. I give them a > letter. So the piece is > numbered 0967, and then 0967a is Eudialyte and 0967b > is the > Astrophyllite in the same specimen. The specimen > should be stored in > drawer E, because the 0967a is eudialyte. > > My collection table itself contains not too many > field, only number, > size, locality, type loc (y/n), paragenese, genese, > remark and habitus. > > In designing a database it is paramount to make it > fool proof. So design > it in such a way that you can not enter misspellings > (I'm very good in > making errors, so it's vital my database corrects me > :-) ). Also try to > avoid redundancy. It's good in aeroplanes, but not > in databases. > This means if you have 35 specimen from the Tsumeb > mine, Namibia, make > your database so that you do not have to type > 'Tsumeb mine, Namibia'" 35 > times. It induces errors and if you later want to > alter the mine name in > "Tsumeb mine,Otjikoto Region, Namibia" it is a lot > of work. You can do > all this by designing a relational database. It > looks difficult at first > if you do not have any database experience, but it > is worth the effort. > > cheers, > Maurice > > > > > FOSSILNUT@aol.com wrote: > > >I'd love to see what you folks have done. I too > have only Office Pro 2000 > >including Access. My rela interest is to see what > fields you have set up and what > >it will take to turn it into a fossil data base... > > > >Gene Hartstein > >Newark, DE > > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > >--- > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Dec 11 08:25:21 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Dec 11 08:25:15 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Favorite Star Trek ; Was, Rock Busted by Clock Police{was:Date?(Spidersand micromounts)} In-Reply-To: <003101c4ded8$9e5b43e0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: rocks??? Oh, you mean the Marshmallowians? Yes, they bounce a lot during mating season! The Enterprise crew had no idea what a mating season is. In fact, if they had, the propmaster would have had to let out Lt Uhura's skirt, which was most likely disgned by a nearsighted micromounter. The alternative is unthinkable but it involves frantic bouncing also and it is a good thing that the good ship Enterprise is equipped with "inertial dampeners" or everything would have shaken loose.... To baldly bounce where no one has bounced before.... ta tadaaaaaaa ta tata tada tadaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa zoom zooooooooooom zoom zoom zoom zoom zoooooooooooooooooooooooooooom Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jeanette Wimpee Verzonden: vrijdag 10 december 2004 17:52 Aan: gbrown@catspaw-minerals.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Favorite Star Trek ;Was, Rock Busted by Clock Police{was:Date?(Spidersand micromounts)} The Trouble with Tribbles... Jeanette Ever notice how all the rocks on the planets they explored bounced like (big hunks of styrofoam)? Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Brown" To: ; "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:05 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: Rock Busted by Clock Police{was:Date?(Spidersand micromounts)} > > ST DS9 > > "Trial and Tribulations" > > The Best. > > > GcB > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From bg at his.com Sat Dec 11 09:44:18 2004 From: bg at his.com (Catherine Gaber) Date: Sat Dec 11 09:44:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] pietra dura Message-ID: <485999BE-4B9C-11D9-8C1B-000A95A8FEB6@his.com> dear rockhounds, the washington post had an interesting article today on an incredible cabinet inlaid with pietra dura - hard, often precious, stone mosaic that went up for auction thursday. those of you in europe may be able to see it soon! http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A56502-2004Dec10.html cathy From lanny at lrream.com Sat Dec 11 09:50:50 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sat Dec 11 09:49:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Canadian Mineralogist needed Message-ID: <31D37A9E-4B9D-11D9-86F9-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi all, Could someone supply me with a copy of an article from the Canadian Mineralogist? I need the descriptive article for potassic-carpholite, from V. 42, p. 121-124. This was a new mineral from the Sawtooth batholith, Idaho, which is something that was discovered about 12 years ago, but the person originally working on it never completed the work, now I see it has been done. Unfortunately, it looks like the type location is screwed up (combining two sites). If someone can mail a photocopy, I'll be glad to pay for the expense or email a scan. Thanks, Lanny From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Sat Dec 11 10:49:20 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Sat Dec 11 10:49:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <41BA8F27.6000706@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <200412111849.iBBInbfD029895@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Here's something I learned Way Back When. As your "unique" key for your record make sure you always use the "auto number" type field that Access provides. That is guaranteed unique in the database forever. Then, have another field such as you talk about that is the unique "visible" ID for the mineral. When you link records together in queries link 'em on the Access unique ID rather than the human-entered unique ID. Why do this? In case you have made an error ("wetware" a.k.a. "human beings" are prone to this) you need only change the manually entered ID once. If you have used that manually entered ID in other records (say, linking a mineral to a localities list or something) you have to change that ID in the other records. If you use the machine-created ID as the link the "visible" ID will change, but the links will still stay intact since the underlying structure hasn't been messed with. Regards, GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Maurice de Graaf > Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 12:10 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > > > > Here a few considerations: > > Each record has to have a unique key. In a collectiondatabase > a record is a specimen. So you must number or code your > specimen. Think about how you are going to do that before > designing a database. My system is, I just started with 0001. > From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Sat Dec 11 10:53:13 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Sat Dec 11 10:53:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Favorite Star Trek ; Was, Rock Busted by Clock Police{was:Date?(Spidersand micromounts)} In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200412111853.iBBIrSfD031926@bubbleator.drizzle.com> **arf** Dontcha love it in Trials & Triblations when The Old Man gets to wear a miniskirt, too? And, Axel, What's this in your note: > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Klingon? Toot Sins... GcB ((Ooooo.... Aaron's gonna whap me...)) > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Axel Emmermann > Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 10:25 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: Favorite Star Trek ;Was, Rock > Busted by Clock Police{was:Date?(Spidersand micromounts)} > > rocks??? > Oh, you mean the Marshmallowians? > Yes, they bounce a lot during mating season! > The Enterprise crew had no idea what a mating season is. In > fact, if they had, the propmaster would have had to let out > Lt Uhura's skirt, which was most likely disgned by a > nearsighted micromounter. The alternative is unthinkable but > it involves frantic bouncing also and it is a good thing that > the good ship Enterprise is equipped with "inertial > dampeners" or everything would have shaken loose.... > > To baldly bounce where no one has bounced before.... ta > tadaaaaaaa ta tata tada tadaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa zoom > zooooooooooom zoom zoom zoom zoom zoooooooooooooooooooooooooooom > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jeanette Wimpee From tangojuli at yahoo.com Sat Dec 11 12:01:39 2004 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Sat Dec 11 12:01:41 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Canadian Mineralogist needed In-Reply-To: <31D37A9E-4B9D-11D9-86F9-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <20041211200139.52877.qmail@web60804.mail.yahoo.com> Lanny- I sent the PDF doc to your email address. tj Lanny wrote: Hi all, Could someone supply me with a copy of an article from the Canadian Mineralogist? I need the descriptive article for potassic-carpholite, from V. 42, p. 121-124. This was a new mineral from the Sawtooth batholith, Idaho, which is something that was discovered about 12 years ago, but the person originally working on it never completed the work, now I see it has been done. Unfortunately, it looks like the type location is screwed up (combining two sites). If someone can mail a photocopy, I'll be glad to pay for the expense or email a scan. Thanks, Lanny _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From hbarwood at troyst.edu Sat Dec 11 14:47:45 2004 From: hbarwood at troyst.edu (Henry Barwood) Date: Sat Dec 11 14:46:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] labuntsovite, was micromounts??? In-Reply-To: <41B972EE.2020504@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Hi Maurice and Kenneth, The original identification of labuntsovite from the Diamond Jo Quarry (DJQ) was by Charles Milton. The ID was by powder XRD, but I do not remember if the chemistry was determined. Recently collected samples from DJQ, and the nearby Jones Mill Quarry, have been visual with minor EDS analysis. Unfortunately, I never got around to running microprobe analyses on the labuntsovite while I was at IU. Like so much from Arkansas, it needs work. Henry -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Maurice de Graaf Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 3:57 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] labuntsovite, was micromounts??? Hi Kenneth, What Labuntsovite (Mn, Fe, Mg) occurs in Arkansas? It is an interesting minerals, which does occur in delightful cabinets on Kola, Russia. Unfortunately the labuntsovite group got expanded with numerous new species recently and my older specimen are just labeled 'Labuntsovite'. Normally the old 'Labuntsovite' should be Labuntsovite-Mn. However in my own N'Yourpakhk specimen I could not find any Mn, but lots of Fe, with my own 19th century analythical skills. It suggests Labuntsovite-Fe, which is pretty rare, but analysed properly from N'Yourpakhk by Steffen Moeckel, a German collector...... Interesting new group cheers, Maurice Kenneth Quinn wrote: >Forgot to mention. I have a specimen of the rare mineral labuntsovite, one >of those only found in micromount size. I found it in a piece of gravel in >a parking lot in Little Rock, Arkansas. No telling where you can find good >micromounts! > >Kenneth Quinn >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From hbarwood at troyst.edu Sat Dec 11 14:57:45 2004 From: hbarwood at troyst.edu (Henry Barwood) Date: Sat Dec 11 14:56:31 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? In-Reply-To: <005101c4de70$40e269e0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: Hi Jeanette, One of the truly great micro mineral enthusiasts, the late Neal Yedlin, used to admonish people to "Buy, and Read, a good book" on minerals/mineralogy/mineral-collecting. The micro minerals are not only beautiful, but highly educational. Under the microscope you can study their forms, associations and characteristics. Many "micro collectors" are a walking encyclopedia of knowledge about their favorite location(s). Some, like the (sadly) late Curt Segeler, used to teach Scout Troops how to perform simple physical and chemical tests to identify minerals. One of his favorite "tricks" was to show how you could rub a Nickel on a piece of filter paper and use a Ring Oven to identify the minute amount of Nickel and Copper that were rubbed off! Never failed to impress young minds. Another collector I knew taught himself how to use a petrographic microscope, and a spindle stage to accurately measure the refractive index of micro minerals. Not all up and coming mineralogists are deceased, either. Jason and Mandy Smith have done an unbelievable job on the minerals from the spodumene quarry at Kings Mountain. Henry -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Jeanette Wimpee Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 10:25 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? Hey, a fellow Alabamian! How do you identify all the little things you find. Especially if one is rank amateur at minerals. Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henry Barwood" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 9:07 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? > Hi Jeanette, > > Where to find micromounts? Just about anywhere. Good specimens of common to > extremely rare mineral species are almost literally underfoot. Best way to > find them is to read up on the minerals in your area, get a microscope (and > a good light) and start looking. > > Henry > > Henry Barwood > Associate Professor of Science, Earth Science > Department of Math and Physics > MSCX 312G > Troy State University > Troy, Alabama 36082 > hbarwood@troyst.edu > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From hbarwood at troyst.edu Sat Dec 11 15:04:48 2004 From: hbarwood at troyst.edu (Henry Barwood) Date: Sat Dec 11 15:03:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? In-Reply-To: <002d01c4de6e$7d20ffe0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: Geodes are good! Midwest geodes have upwards of 30 minerals that can be found in them. Some of the rare ones are only in micro sizes. "Coconut" geodes often have real oddball stuff like apatites and manganese oxides as micro crystals. Henry -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Jeanette Wimpee Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 10:13 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? Every time I've opened a geode, I've peered down into it, trying to see the "little" crystals therein. Maybe I've been a closet micromount enthusiast all along. Sounds like a whole new world. Jeanette Going now to go over all my rocks now with a loupe.... _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From hbarwood at troyst.edu Sat Dec 11 15:04:49 2004 From: hbarwood at troyst.edu (Henry Barwood) Date: Sat Dec 11 15:03:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts??? In-Reply-To: <41B91F50.5405@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: "First you accidently drop a good specimen onto a hard floor. Then you sweep up the shards and carefully sort thru them with a lens looking for good micromounts and thumbnails before tossing it into the tumbler." Ouch! I, unfortunately, resemble that! I had saved some tiny single crystals of cacoxenite that were detached while trimming a specimen. They were lying on a petri dish by the microscope. My helpful daughter came by and used my can of compressed air to clean off the dust for me. Sigh! Henry From johnjold at comcast.net Sat Dec 11 15:13:37 2004 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Sat Dec 11 15:13:31 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Good tools Message-ID: <4975F335-4BCA-11D9-8F0B-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> The Trow & Holden Co. of Barre, VT came up a few times last week. The first link is for an instructional pdf called Boulders to Building Blocks. This details an ancient method of splitting boulders or quarrying. Their terms are shims and drills but there are a lot of names for the same process including pins and feathers, wedges and shims or feathers and wedges. They have sets for holes from 1/2" to 2". They are an old company supplying tools to the quarry trade as well as marble and granite carvers. Also of interest to rockhounds are their steel and carbide chisels. The carbide tools are only high priced until you realize how many steel points one will replace. The second link in the Trow & Holden on line catalogue. I have no interest in the company other than as a very satisfied customer. I have driven up to Barre from the Herkimer area twice and do recommend a visit if possible. Besides the company itself you have the guided tour of the Rock of Ages Quarry. This is the quarry covered by the recent History Channel Modern Marvels program on ancient and modern quarry methods. It is impossible to describe. The tour guide also recommended a visit to the Hope Cemetery. For a century the Rock of Ages Co. has given a large block of granite, gratis, whenever a close relative of a carver died. The relative gets a great tomb stone and the company gets free advertising. If you are into really fancy cemeteries, or admire the stone carvers art this place is a must. My personal favorites are the bi-plane, the large soccer ball and the couple sitting up in bed holding hands. I hope that is enough to inspire some visits. http://trowandholden.com/reference.html http://trowandholden.com/cgi-bin/store/agora.cgi? cart_id=6545715.1448*Vz0ls8 From jaybates at rcn.com Sat Dec 11 16:02:35 2004 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sat Dec 11 15:59:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Good tools References: <4975F335-4BCA-11D9-8F0B-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000701c4dfdd$e2e5e460$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> John I found this site about mining for rhodochrosite crystals in the Sweet Home mine in Alma Colorado. http://www.cozine.com/archive/cc1995/00160247.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Joldersma" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com : A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 3:13 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Good tools > The Trow & Holden Co. of Barre, VT came up a few times last week. > The first link is for an instructional pdf called Boulders to Building > Blocks. This details an ancient method of splitting boulders or > quarrying. Their terms are shims and drills but there are a lot of > names for the same process including pins and feathers, wedges and > shims or feathers and wedges. They have sets for holes from 1/2" to > 2". They are an old company supplying tools to the quarry trade as > well as marble and granite carvers. Also of interest to rockhounds are > their steel and carbide chisels. The carbide tools are only high > priced until you realize how many steel points one will replace. > The second link in the Trow & Holden on line catalogue. > I have no interest in the company other than as a very satisfied > customer. I have driven up to Barre from the Herkimer area twice and > do recommend a visit if possible. Besides the company itself you have > the guided tour of the Rock of Ages Quarry. This is the quarry covered > by the recent History Channel Modern Marvels program on ancient and > modern quarry methods. It is impossible to describe. The tour guide > also recommended a visit to the Hope Cemetery. For a century the Rock > of Ages Co. has given a large block of granite, gratis, whenever a > close relative of a carver died. The relative gets a great tomb stone > and the company gets free advertising. If you are into really fancy > cemeteries, or admire the stone carvers art this place is a must. My > personal favorites are the bi-plane, the large soccer ball and the > couple sitting up in bed holding hands. I hope that is enough to > inspire some visits. > > http://trowandholden.com/reference.html > > http://trowandholden.com/cgi-bin/store/agora.cgi? > cart_id=6545715.1448*Vz0ls8 > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From morningstar at att.net Sat Dec 11 16:09:57 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Sat Dec 11 16:08:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <41BA8F27.6000706@xs4all.nl> References: <36.67d5bca3.2eebd0a9@aol.com> <41BA8F27.6000706@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <41BB8C55.3060700@att.net> Maurice de Graaf wrote: Greetings! > I think my personal database has a LOT of fields. ... The relational > database consists of 16 tables with in total 135 fields. Basically I > have made one large table with all IMA minerals and about 25 fields, > regarding mineral properties. ... My collection table itself contains > not too many field, only number, > size, locality, type loc (y/n), paragenese, genese, remark and habitus. I'm confused though . . . if it has 135 fields, I only count less than 50 here; what are they all and what do they do? > Each record has to have a unique key. . . . My system is, I > just started with 0001. I am a big advocate of this simplicity, especially since it is a standard model for data management. A number of museums do nothing more than this, though I do advocate adding a local prefix, such as MDG-549 for Maurice De Graaf's collection. My documentation has half a page explaining why this is the best choice. However, due to legacy habits or personal preference, some collectors use code numbers like "2004-12-0007", for the 7th specimen collected in 2004 which was collected in December, or some such thing. To accomodate that, the system still assigns an Autoincrement number to each new specimen (as Gary discussed in another post), however, there are fields for "previous specimen number" which can easily be used to insert a user's custom number. Since you can search or sort a database any way you like, it is just as easy to sort by this field as it is by the automatic specimen index number. > So the piece is > numbered 0967, and then 0967a is Eudialyte and 0967b is the > Astrophyllite in the same specimen. The specimen should be stored in > drawer E, because the 0967a is eudialyte. I'm a bit curious here as well; why did you pick "E" over "A"? How would you know to look in E? You might consider adding a "storage location" field, which tells you, of course, where it is. For example, I find it easier to store mounted micros in trays since they fit so nicely together, and as long as the drawer is marked "7F", or whatever, when I want to find that specimen I see in the database that the storage location is "7F" . . . unless, of course, the database indicates it is out on loan. It sounds like you are doing the right thing, and if someone is fortunate to acquire your collection intact, they will have a nice catalog to go with it. All the best, Don From hptdesigns at charter.net Sat Dec 11 16:42:28 2004 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Sat Dec 11 16:37:52 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <41BA8F27.6000706@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <3khdg6$eojc4u@mxip03a.cluster1.charter.net> Maurice is right in all things stated. WARNING: LONG Boring database stuff to follow--read at own risk. Good stuff to put you to sleep. >The most important bug is > that you'd better not use memo fields. Especially in larger > databases they tend to screw up. I really have not had any problems with memo fields, though I am sure he is correct. In the early versions of Access the memo fields was essentially a dump field that could hold up to 64000 characters and was a good place (and really the only place) to store large amounts of text. But Access is different from other database formats that at least I am aware of in that all the data is stored in a single .mdb file. Tables,queries, forms, modules, macros, etc. So for example if you had lots and lots of say letters stored in memo fields, your file size would increase incredibly. I now only use memo fields for those fields that need to be longer than 256 characters that a normal text field can handle--for example a location notes field, oops "LOCALITY" notes field--gotcha Don Halterman. But with the advent of the hyperlink field in Access 97, the limitations pretty much disappeared--at least to my mind. Instead of now dumping that data into a field, let the hyperlink field manage an external document. That document can be of any file type, whether it be a movie, picture, Word doc., rtf doc, html page, mht file, autocad file, etc, etc, etc. The core relational stuff is still stored in the mdb file but the external goodies can now be store anywhere and relationaly linked. This is of course what is the basis of much of the internet. One thing that I would encourage anyone who uses Access or any other database development program is to explore this very powerful field type. As well as Excel users and Word users. But the problem comes from where are all those files and how can I be sure I don't lose them. I want to be able to back them up and get EVERYTHING. The hyperlink can of course make links to a remote server such as a mindat webpage. And as long as that page is available and its address does not change, there is theoretically no reason store it for yourself. But the rub comes when 20 years from now, mindat changes its way of serving up pages and they end up having a new address. Then that address you saved is no longer valid and the data it constained is no longer available. So for an archive of information, you need to make sure you have control of the data. Its ok to have a broken link to a file, but it is not OK not to have the file. You can repair the link, but if you don't have the file, you are up the creek without a paddle, boat, food, water--you are DEAD. My approach to this in my application (and my wastewater process control application also) is to actually copy those files to a place I know where they are and rename them to a name that has useful information embedded in the file name so that even if the application failed, the files were still there. This was critical for my ww program, because you are required by law to keep reports for years. But the management of all these "external" files needs to be in a relational scheme so that one can "serve" them up when wanted and search for them with a variety of criteria. So in many ways, in my approach, the database itself is just saving meta-data about the files and then manages that meta-data----not the files themselves. Now understand that that is for all the external stuff such as pictures and maps and articles. So for example when you go to a certain specimen, the core text data about that specimen is saved in the fields, while the pictures are stored externally and a link to them is stored in the database itself. But since I programatically create the link and point it, I know that all the files are named consistantly and are located all in one subdirectory for that kind of file. So when I add a picture to a specimen, my approach was to go out and find the picture wherever it was--say on a flash card of a digital camera, copy it, name it with the specimen number embedded along with Locality info, save it to a specified subdirectory of the application, and then programatically create the link to the file and to title it with an appropriate title. A hyperlink contains two parts--what is called the display text and the address part. The display text can be anything while the address is a pointer to the path and name of the file--wherever it may reside. It might be on the web, or in my situation, in a subfolder of the app. People out there with excel spreadsheets can also make use of this stategy by simple getting all their pictures into a folder and then creating a cell with the data type of hyperlink. They can then right click the cell, edit hyperlink, and point it to the picture. Then in the spreadsheet, all they have to do is to click the link and the picture will launch with whatever viewer they have registered. Very powerful stuff that a few years ago would have been incredibly difficult to implement. And with the newer versions, MS has a very robust and easy to use link creator. A few years ago, one had to delve pretty deeply into coding, etc. to achieve such a mechanism. What I have found is that many in the normal world are not even aware of this incredibly powerful and new data type. I'm sure openoffice has the same thing--but I am essentially a MS Office guy as I use Excel, Word, and Access all the time at work (and at play). In fact, in my program, one can easily change the display text or the address of a hyperlink stored in the database by simply right clicking it and using the edit hyperlink dialog. One can of course even create the link using this method directly in a field (or Excel cell) using the dialog. For very simple spreadsheet type catalogs that many might have out there and are perfectly satisfied with , this is an easy to implement feature. Simply add additional columns to the sheet and set the cells in those columns to data type hyperlink. So for example, make a column named picture1, set data type of cells in that column to hyperlink. Right click on cell and go to edit hyperlink. Go find the file, set the display text, and voila, you have attached that picture to that specimen. And if you have all your pics in the same folder, point it to that folder, on the file dialog box, view as thumbnails and voila, every picture in that folder is displayed so you don't even have to know the file name, just look at the pictures and pick the right one. Very kewl. > I think my personal database has a LOT of fields. I use my > database not only for keeping track of my collection, but > also as a sort of private (and better :-) ) Mindat. That is essentially my concept of what a collection database is all about. Being able to not only store specific info about the specimen but also as a personal library in which to store the many personal researches and info about minerals and related stuff and be able to quickly find it and associate it to individual specimens. >I started > building in 1991. The relational database consists of 16 > tables with in total 135 fields. Basically I have made one > large table with all IMA minerals and about 25 fields, > regarding mineral properties. This table is linked to a > collection table with data about my specimen. Begin Digression: Notice Maurice started 1991 and still at it. No matter what anyone says it takes a lot of time to build your own. Although my program maybe is not as sophisticated as his, I have at least 500 hours of time invested in it and it still does not do everything I would like. And if you figure that 1/2 of that time was wasted for lack of knowledge or just thinking about what I wanted (and Don did a lot of the basic thinking), that is still a lot of time. So for all yall out there that think you are going to get Access, or openoffice, or whatever and whip together something, be prepared to put the work in. And even after you do that, the really tedious and important part is to actually enter the data. Its time consuming and that is the reason very few want to tackle it and the reason there is no perfect specialized application for mineral collectors--there is not enough of a market to economically justify creating the killer program. Mindat, webmineral, and even that agate collection on the web only are there because of the need of their developers to create something. Now that professor was getting paid, and now webmineral and mindat get a bit of advertising but I know it surely will never compensate their creators for all the time that went into them. End Digression: I applaud that but found it to be a bit overwhelming and pretty much decided that all that data on properties was of course interesting and useful but too much for me to deal with for a personal project. But when I discovered the very good online databases--especially Athena, webmineral.com (God that guy is a genius) mindat (incredible amount of work and resource that is community updated--genius also), I decided that I would use their information instead of duplicating it. The way I decided to deal with it (and when I am cataloging or using my collection database I DO want that info available) was to create a "Library" and then link the "books" (files) in the library to the specimen. And since I am constantly going to those in particular sites, I made a link to their sites that launches from within the interface. So you are viewing a wulfenite specimen from Los Lamentos. Clicking on the webmineral button takes you directly to the wulfenite data page on the web. Clicking the mindat button next to Los Lamentos takes you to that page on mindat. BUT what happens if the internet is down or heaven forbid the site has gone, what to do. So what I do is to add that wulfenite datasheet on webmineral to my library so I can link to to my all of my wulfenite specimens. Perfectly legal for personal use, however would definitely have to get permission if included it with a commercial version. I created a little interface that does it in about 30 seconds. And here is a hint about saving web pages. If you are using IE, you can save it as a .mht file and it saves everything on the page including pics etc as one file. And its searchable. Any links on the page are live if conneceted to the internet but even if those underlying links are no longer valid, whatever is displayed on the page, including pictures, tables, etc itself is still saved. Being able to save as pdf file is also a good way, but I do not have a program to do that. For future longterm archiving pdf is probably the way to go as it is fast becoming the standard of the world--although I doubt very seriously that MS will ever not continue to have a way of either displaying .mht files or at least a conversion routine. Some pdf programs can of couse convert an mht to a pdf. > But it is also > linked to a large locality table. Since I work with GIS > (digital mapping) the locality database is ODBC linked to > digital mapping software. Very kewl. I do not have digital mapping software--but really should. I too have fields for lat/long data and in my opinion it is an absoulutely essential field. For with using it, I can automatically open up many of the mapping programs online and get valuable information. There are some really good mapping resources online or very inexpensive at the retail market. My concept was to programatically create a url that would be opened in MapQuest for political stuff and roads (world wide), Topozone for topo maps of US, Terra Server for actual aerial photos of the site, and the National Geographic Map Machine for elevation maps and other great views. Once you generate the map online, it is quite simple to save that map (as mht file or other) and put it in you library. You can then attach it to various specimens. You can search for it in the library by city, state, mine etc. So for example you create a map of Tsumeb, you add it to your library, and then You can of course do the same with DeLorme to automatically map the location. But whatever mapping program you use, for your collection, at least for my collection, I like to have that map saved in my archive and hooked to my specimen forever and ever. I do not want to have to have the delorme dvd or the internet available. I want that map in MY archive. In fact now that I am spewing off, that is probably the next module to be developed. One that will say create the map and do it pretty much instantly and associate it. Good idea Tommy! In my program and concept I wanted to be sure it was easy to attach a resouce doc to an single individual specimen-and I think I have done that pretty well. But now as I write, what I want to do is to attach a single resouce doc to a set of individual specimens. So for example all specimens from Tsumeb would be automatically have the maps of Tsumeb attached to them. My next project. There are two formats for lat/long of couse and I decided to use the decimal format because it was easier to pass it to the various mapping programs. Therefore I did add a little conversion wizard that allows easy entry for those fields. Begin Digression: And for me that is the beauty of a pretty well established database program such as Access which has now gone through I think 8 major revisions. Say what you want about MS--but they eventually get it right--or a least they keep improving their core products. They really do listen to their users and attempt to add those functions in the next release. I could probably do the above without any coding in Access by just opening up the query builder and doing a few select and update queries. The problem is for the normal person who does not want to invest hours or days into such things, it is difficult to do it for him. A power user in Access can almost always get the info extracted the way he wants without any coding using the built in tools. They have gotten much better--but still have to read the manual and understand some level of SQL. However, if one wants to automate the process and make it more user friendly, using Visual Basic he can accomplish that also. The same goes for reports. End Digression: The data that Gary has composed in his MasMils db is incredibly useful because it has those two little numbers--one for lat and one for long. Begin Digression: I am beginning to digress more and more--but you were warned at the top For with that one combination of unique numbers, a vast quantity of information is available that hitherto would be undreamed of. To be able to plot the exact location down to a few centimeters of an object might be the most enduring technological advance of the 20th century. And the resources, both mind and money, going into it assure that it will only continue to progress. And the benefits have been incredible (and perhaps some major liabilities also). One can now plot his deer blind deep in the woods, never to be lost again. One can plot each water meter or sewer manhole so that it can instantly be found. One can now map oil fields and geological stuctures like never before. It just goes on and on and on. Of course the liability is that other people also know where you are. You can instantly plot the exact location of my house by just searching on Yahoo, finding my tele number, and then map me. Kind of scary. So all yall out there that are completely bored with all this db stuff--just don't take it out on me. And those damned rental cars with GPS--they know exactly where you are and went--BS. If I want to go to a topless bar, I sure do not want somebody in Houston knowing that--or the police- or heaven forbid my wife. GPS cell phones are scary. Big Big Big Brother is here if we allow him. End Digression >So with the right queries I could > generate a world map of my collection :-) I assume these > possibilities go way beyond the needs of an average collector. Not really if they were really easy--I am sure a lot of collectors would like that feature. And it really would be relatively easy to create an interface that would do it in Access if you were a decent Access developer, as well as in any other development program. > > My database serves as a kind of 'brain' where I can store > information that I want to retrieve easily. It is not my goal > to really fill up all the 135 fields. Absolutely--but you want those fields there if applicable to a certain specimen. > > Here a few considerations: > > Each record has to have a unique key. In a collectiondatabase > a record is a specimen. Absolutely---I use Access's auto-increment number so no possibility of duplication. See Gary's post. I fully concur with him. So you must number or code your > specimen. Think about how you are going to do that before > designing a database. My system is, I just started with 0001. > Each specimen gets an inidivual number, which does not carry > any information about the specimen. Most of my specimen have > different minerals in them. I give them a letter. So the > piece is numbered 0967, and then 0967a is Eudialyte and 0967b > is the Astrophyllite in the same specimen. The specimen > should be stored in drawer E, because the 0967a is eudialyte. I approached mine a little bit differently. I have an auto number for the specimen--a useless number in the sense of any information contained in it but the core field of the app as it is the primary key for so many things. Now at first, I thought I would have a single significan mineral and associated minerals. Say for example the significant mineral was Eudialyte and the associated were Astrophyllite. After much discussion I was persuaded to have a "primry search mineral", significant minerals, and associated minerals. One specimen can have one "primary search mineral", many significant minerals and many associated minerals. You can search by all or any of them, but for a direct search using filter by form built into Access, you have to use the Primary Search Mineral. Begin Digression: ANYONE who wants to make a database for themselves, there is one absolutely wonderful thing about using Access and creating your forms there. There is a built in Query By Form functionality built in which you allows you to search by any and all criteria you would ever want to and it takes absolutely no coding. Just click the button and create you criteria right on the form, click another button and all records in the database that meet those criteria are automatically displayed on the form. So once you have created a simple form with the form wizard, you could essentiall say I want all specimens from Tsumeb that are thumbnails and cost more than $5.00 and were bought from Dealer1 before Sept 3, 1987 and were mounted. Click the button and the query is made run and displayed. > > In designing a database it is paramount to make it fool > proof. So design it in such a way that you can not enter > misspellings (I'm very good in making errors, so it's vital > my database corrects me :-) ). Absolutely and it makes it much more enjoyable (or at least much less detestable) to enter data that corrects itself or enters itself. I made use of the CIA World Fact Book and entered all countries that might have minerals in them, then all the states,provinces counties, etc for those countries. So when for example you type in az into the pick country drop box, Azerbaijan comes up--who wants to spell that more than once in ones lifetime. Once you tab out of it, Azerbaijan is copied to a field for country and ready to be saved Then you tab again and you go to the state/province drop box and lo and behold all the provinces of Azerbaijan are there for the picking. ( they are called rayons (rayonlar; rayon - singular)) beginning with Abseron Rayonu and ending with Zardab Rayonu. So entering locality data is relatively easy and mouseless. With the states it drills down USA, STATE, County. In Maurice's example you would pick Namibia, and the state drop box would be populated with all the 13 regions of Namibia. The same goes for mineral names as you pick the name from a drop box with all approved names. Also you can add non-approved names to the list. I am going to use Biotite whether it is approved or not! The approved ones are denoted as approved. Mines caused me a bit of a problem--I have been around and around on how to deal with them. And might change in future as the list of mines grows and grows. What I decided to do was to have the person type in the mine name, say Tsumeb, and then that mine gets added to the list in the drop box. Additional specimens from Tsumeb will then be picked from the drop box. When there is a question, I first go to mindat by clicking the MD button next to the mine field and see whether they have some alternate spelling. And many times, if there are alternate ones, or ones that have non standard characters, you can simply copy from mindat and paste to the field. Also while there visiting the mine page at mindat, there is often a lat/long for that mine for you to put in the database. However mindat uses degminsec and I decimal format so need to open up little conversion utility. Dealers that you purchase specimens from are treated the same way. Add once and then pick. Entering date data is a real pain and have incorportated a calendar that pops up if you double click on a date field so you can pick the date instead of having to type it in a certain format. Also try to avoid redundancy. Absolutely--but with memory so cheap now--its not quite as big a factor. But one should in most cases design tables and relationships as "Normal" as possible. > It's good in aeroplanes, but not in databases. > This means if you have 35 specimen from the Tsumeb mine, > Namibia, make your database so that you do not have to type > 'Tsumeb mine, Namibia'" 35 times. It induces errors and if > you later want to alter the mine name in "Tsumeb > mine,Otjikoto Region, Namibia" it is a lot of work. >You can do all this by designing a relational database. It looks > difficult at first if you do not have any database > experience, but it is worth the effort. Begin Digression: Well it may be worth the effort to people like Maurice and I who obviously like this kind of thing, but let me tell you, it also can be a mighty frustrating experience if its not your thing. And actually for those people, I would suggest NOT to embark on such a journey--just organize your note cards and create a catalog of your collection. I use Access at work and started to create programs to make my work easier and the management of my water and sewer plants better. I also of course had big expectations of getting rich by creating a killer program for all 80000 sewer plants in the US.So the knowledge that I acquired from writing a mineral program actually had some carryover useage. In fact the module I created for pictures in the mineral database, I have incorporated into the wastewater app for the recording of the different microorganisms in the mixed liquor. So you can now go to Sept 13, 2004 and bring up the digital pictures of the population that day. Even a simple spreadsheet or word file that can be printed is much much better than nothing. And if you don't like typing and entering data, you can always get your self a microphone, record an mp3 file or a wav file of your observations about the specimen, its history, where you found it, etc and then with that wonderful hyperlink field, create a link to that recorded file on your simple spreadsheet. This would have been out of most pocketbooks only a few years ago, but with cheap huge hardrives and CD and DVD burning and whatever is coming next it is probably a very viable and useful idea. Hell you can get 400 cd's of music on an Ipod. While you are collecting, take your ipod along with you with a microphone and when you get back, add the file to your library and link to it. Collecting trip to That really is a good idea. As a listener to NPR, I know how enjoyable it is to listen to "radio logs" Log onto a dealers site, and instead of reading a description, listen to it. Or make a video of the specimen with sound describing it. Actually that is really a good idea--Module #2. Video and Recorded descriptions--like doctors do for autopsies. Then take that recording--run it through a speech to text engine and have it print it out. Computers should really make things simpler, but I don't know. But they definitely open new doors. End Digression: > > cheers, > Maurice > > > > > FOSSILNUT@aol.com wrote: > > >I'd love to see what you folks have done. I too have only > Office Pro 2000 > >including Access. My rela interest is to see what fields you > have set up and what > >it will take to turn it into a fossil data base... > > > >Gene Hartstein > >Newark, DE > > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > >--- > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From morningstar at att.net Sat Dec 11 18:00:53 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Sat Dec 11 17:59:52 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <20041211152241.48708.qmail@web51003.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041211152241.48708.qmail@web51003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <41BBA655.7040407@att.net> Jim Daly wrote: > I agree that it's worthwhile to learn Access and > design your own database, at least until a "universal" > database that would allow everyone to exchange data > comes along. I want to address that very good point; but first a little history. My original design was such that anyone could have applied it to Access, Paradox, MySql, Oracle, Sybase, Ingres, or any other fully relational database. I bought Paradox 9 so it could be created as a standalone executable. However--and this is a big "however"--no matter what you do, no matter how you do it, if you create an executable then you are responsible for making it run on several different platforms and keeping it upgraded. One of the biggest complaints from the some of the institutions I surveyed was that the programs they had were custom and the creator no longer supported them. Some of them had to remain on older computers. Now, I am no fan of Microsoft and I maintain the belief that a special place in hell is reserved for Bill Gates, so when Tommy said he would create this is Access, I was not pleased. We went 'round and 'round for quite a while on that one. Once he figured out how to create special characters in the fields--one of my more serious complaints--and I saw everything he did with it, I was convinced. The flexibility and utility of what he brought to life are astounding. His DB will remain viable as long as Access is upgraded, and even when Tommy and I have returned to ashes and dust, there will always be Access & Visual Basic programmers who can continue to work on it. I really am pleased with his solution because it can remain viable far, far longer than any custom executable can. Now, to finally address your "universal" comment: the other beautiful thing about Tommy tying it in with Office is that Billgatus of Borg is embracing the XML standard--XML is, for very general intents and purposes (in other words, don't quote it this way), a super-HTML in the sense that you use markup language to describe data elements. Soon enough, XML will be supported on all platforms, and then you will truly see universality. That exchange of data will still require some work, but it is worth the work because of the vast benefits. > For example, I don't include data on the properties of the > minerals. I can look that up in many references. Of > course, if it were available in a form here I could > import it, I would probably do so. That's another important point. Though people often don't like to be told what they shouldn't do, industry best practices suggest that it is counterproductive to try to do something like create your own table with over 4,000 species in it. This database is about SPECIMENS, not MINERAL SPECIES; they are two different entities, though each specimen may have one or more species in it. (Side note: Earl Verbeek, a geologist and my co-designer, noted that some specimens are truly "rocks," and may have no identified species in them when you catalog the specimen, so you need to be able to accept the fact that not every specimen will be associated with an IMA-approved species). Species data is what we call "static information," meaning that it either doesn't change, or changes very little, and is used for reference purposes. If you try to capture all this yourself, you may or may not make a mistake; and when species change, as they do from time to time (keep reading Rocks & Minerals for the current lively debate on this topic), you would need to keep up with that. It is far easier to link to Webmineral or one of the other venerable species databases out there. (Side note: during my early years in data management, one of my duties was to make sure the weekly "static tables" were pushed out to all sites; it was one person's job to make sure the static data were correct, and my department's job to make certain every fielded site got updated with the current data at the same time). As you sort-of-implied, Jim, it would be great if the IMA or some other authoritative body published a "static table update" of species data every time it changed, and sent the change notice out to an e-mail list of interested parties, so everyone could grab the list and import the data into the database of their choice. The one and only disadvantage of linking to something like Webmineral is that you rely upon the author to get everything right (though, over the years, I have found this site to be very reliable), and as Tommy already pointed out, if you are offline or the web is down--or, worst case, Webmineral ceases to exist--your only salvation is a cached copy. The IMA does have a committee on computers. I am confident that they will eventually publish a web list of current mineral species, groups, and varieties and their characteristics, and when that happens, it will be a blessing for everyone who does what Maurice is doing and what Jim wishes he could do. Until then, we do have a few good websites, and there are always books, so this isn't a critical concern. All the best, Don From digem at plateautel.net Sat Dec 11 18:33:42 2004 From: digem at plateautel.net (Allison & Wayne Holland) Date: Sat Dec 11 18:24:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pen holder/stand supplies, where? Message-ID: <41BBAE06.40606@plateautel.net> I am looking for the little brass or chrome plated pen stands that you can epoxy to anything/something and make a beautiful pen holder display? Any suggestions? From lanny at lrream.com Sat Dec 11 19:01:56 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sat Dec 11 19:00:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Canadian Mineralogist needed In-Reply-To: <20041211200139.52877.qmail@web60804.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041211200139.52877.qmail@web60804.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2EE3F09A-4BEA-11D9-86F9-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Fast work! Thank you TJ and KQ for the offers, and for the article, only a few hours from request to receiving the article! The help from the list members is fantastic. Regards, Lanny On Dec 11, 2004, at 12:01 PM, tango juli wrote: > Lanny- > I sent the PDF doc to your email address. > tj > > Lanny wrote: > Hi all, > > Could someone supply me with a copy of an article from the Canadian > Mineralogist? I need the descriptive article for potassic-carpholite, > from V. 42, p. 121-124. This was a new mineral from the Sawtooth > batholith, Idaho, which is something that was discovered about 12 years > ago, but the person originally working on it never completed the work, > now I see it has been done. Unfortunately, it looks like the type > location is screwed up (combining two sites). > > If someone can mail a photocopy, I'll be glad to pay for the expense or > email a scan. > > Thanks, > > Lanny > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From TomE61 at aol.com Sat Dec 11 20:38:17 2004 From: TomE61 at aol.com (TomE61@aol.com) Date: Sat Dec 11 20:38:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database -- My Suggestions Message-ID: <83.1cc1f650.2eed2539@aol.com> In my opinion, the recent discussion about mineral databases has been excellent and some valuable insights have come up. I would like to take a little time to share some of my suggestions and thoughts. In general, if I can buy something that I need that is equal or better than something I can create myself, I will spend the money. For example, I am not a carpenter, so I can't construct shelves, so I buy them already manufactured. On the other hand, I make a kick-ass brownie, from scratch, so I wouldn't even consider buying store made ones. As someone who has a lot of experience with databases (design, testing, etc.) I would love to sit down and create a database for my specimen collection. I have extensive experience with MS Access, Excel and have used dBase (back when it was THE only database), AlphaFour and FoxPro. However, based on what I've heard, and in the interest of conserving time, I am very excited about test-driving Tommy and Don's latest mineral database offering. If I ultimately decide that it is not what I need, then I guess I'll have to go back and "bake my own database." But I'm pretty confident that THEIR offering is going to help me immensely. BUT, if you're a newbie and need some advice, I hope this helps: Choosing a Database: There is no universally correct response to this, despite what Microsoft says. Some common things that sway decisions are comfort, ease of learning, ease of use, price, scalability, technical support, etc. If you simply want to replace your index cards, white out and India Ink, or can no longer rely on your memory to tell you where specific items came from, then you have a different need than someone who wants a more robust database, with photos and mineral characteristics, chemical compositions, map of locality, etc. Be very sure upfront what it is you want to accomplish. Then choose accordingly. I would suggest trying any number of free offerings out there, to see how they work and to see if you're comfortable with their features. If you're NOT comfortable, fairly quickly, then you can move on to a database program that costs money. Please bear in mind that free offerings often DO NOT come with built in technical support and in some cases, may not be exportable to other more established programs. I don't work for Microsoft, but I have to say that if you need to purchase a database program, then Access is a good choice. The Office products are pretty good and while we all know and recognize that there are bugs, Microsoft is often not too proud or presumptious to assume, right off the bat, that its the user problem and not the manufacturer's problem. (If you're thinking Oracle or dBase, then you have way TOO MUCH money to spend, and we should have a conversation off line so that I can help you spend that money on me .) Don't be afraid to try as many databases as you are able to; the learning experience is invaluable and if you're looking for a quick solution, then perhaps you should just hire someone to do this. Dive in and try whatever is out there. After all, you can just uninstall any program that you no longer have any use for. Designing and Using the Database, Once You've Made a Decision: So you've chosen one or more databases to try. It is always a good idea to test various programs using the SAME scenario to see what results you get and then determine if you're satisfied. Once you have the chosen database up and running on your computer, I would suggest the following: 1. If they have a tour, demo or tutorial, go through it at least twice to see what the features are. 2. Start out designing a database with something simple and well-known and see how the features work. For example: You might want to design a database for Xmas gifts and Xmas recipients; you might then want to get more into it by detailing the gift, how much it cost, where you got it from, etc. [Important Note: If you can't easily modify the database, after it is initially designed, then the program is utterly worthless.] You might want to create a database to record all of the books you've read, by author, title, genre, where purchased, and then include a memo field to record your opinion. Finally, you might want to create a database that houses recipes. This is an EXCELLENT example, because it really uses a lot of concepts: using tbp for tablespoon, using tsp for teaspon, 1 cup versus fractional cups, a dash of this and a dash of that. Categorize by food group or dinner offering: appetizer, soup, main dish, dessert, etc. Recipes and their components really test your database design and data-entry skills. You may find that your test-drive of the sample database might actually become something you really feel comforfable with and use frequently, and that is a good thing. BUT, onto the mineral database. Keep these general design principles in mind: 1. Draw it out on paper. Keep it simple. Don't rush into it. Spend a few days thinking about what it is you want to record and which fields are ultimately going to be important to you. e.g., is locality more important to you? or type of rock or mineral? or value? 2. Sweat the details. Keep the fields simple and accessible. Rather than using ONE field for "city, state, zip", create three (3) different fields for each so that you can easily sort on any of those fields later on. 3. Use the database's "mask" feature; that is, it allows you to enter info into a pre-defined template so you don't have to re-invent the data entry process every time. 4. Use the database's spelling and validation feature; someone else mentioned it here and it is a GREAT suggestion....... 5. Get familiar with the reporting features of your database. A simple summary of your database is fine, but perhaps you want a more detailed view of your collection. Explore ALL of the reporting options and try them on for size. In closing, don't choose or try to design a database which is TOO complex. After all, the goal here is to catalog your collection, and use a vehicle which is not only comfortable, but non-threatening as well. It can be done. I know it Good luck with your efforts. Let me know if you have any questions or need additional information. Happy Holidays, Tom Russell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lmcraft at wcc.net Sat Dec 11 21:09:52 2004 From: lmcraft at wcc.net (Marcia & Leroy Ingham) Date: Sat Dec 11 21:08:49 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Pen holder/stand supplies References: <41BBAE06.40606@plateautel.net> Message-ID: <009901c4e008$cfed1d80$a5770bd0@wcc.net> Eloxite Corp. has the holder complete with pen. There have several styles. Haven't found just the holder yet. www.eloxite.com No connection; just a satisfied customer. Marcia Ingham lmcraft@wcc.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allison & Wayne Holland" To: "rockhounds" Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 8:33 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Pen holder/stand supplies, where? > I am looking for the little brass or chrome plated pen stands that you > can epoxy to anything/something and make a beautiful pen holder display? > Any suggestions? > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Dec 11 21:11:00 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Dec 11 21:10:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database -- My Suggestions References: <83.1cc1f650.2eed2539@aol.com> Message-ID: <41BBD2E0.52C0@Tomaszewski.net> TomE61@aol.com wrote: > > In my opinion, the recent discussion about mineral databases has been > excellent and some valuable insights have come up. I would like to take a little > time to share some of my suggestions and thoughts. Tom, I hope your Club's Newsletter Editor gets a copy of this (with a little clean-up). Good advice. Kreigh From hptdesigns at charter.net Sat Dec 11 22:17:11 2004 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Sat Dec 11 22:12:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database -- My Suggestions In-Reply-To: <83.1cc1f650.2eed2539@aol.com> Message-ID: <3k70kp$k0bt8u@mxip16a.cluster1.charter.net> And we have another poster who is I think absolutely correct. Wow a bunch of smart people out there. A few comments. > In general, if I can buy something that I need that is equal > or better than something I can create myself, I will spend > the money. AMEN If I ultimately > decide that it is not what I need, then I guess I'll have to > go back and "bake my own database." Or since the code is open, you are welcome to use mine and just modify--which I am sure you would do anyway. Might want to add a field here or there and for sure create some custom reports. Our app has very few at the present so would have to do them if you wanted them. However Access does have a nice and robust report generator as well as a pretty easy (easiest I have ever used) query builder. > There is no universally correct response to this, despite > what Microsoft says. Some common things that sway decisions > are comfort, ease of learning, ease of use, price, > scalability, technical support, etc. Very, very true. Filemaker comes to mind for Apple people. > Be very sure upfront what it is you want to accomplish. Then > choose accordingly. We wanted to accomplish something that would be robust enough for a full blown museum but easy enough to use for an average collector (such as myself). We created numerous fields which I as a normal collector would never probably use, but so what--empty fields take up very little room and room is cheap. One of the things I have been toying with if people actually want to use my database (and are willing to pay a very reasonable amount for it) is to have a "light input form" which just included those really well used fields. The way we have it set up now is that everything is there on the form albeit on different tabs. > > I would suggest trying any number of free offerings out > there, to see how they work and to see if you're comfortable > with their features. If you're NOT comfortable, fairly > quickly, then you can move on to a database program that > costs money. Please bear in mind that free offerings often > DO NOT come with built in technical support and in some > cases, may not be exportable to other more established programs. > > I don't work for Microsoft, but I have to say that if you > need to purchase a database program, then Access is a good > choice. The Office products are pretty good and while we all > know and recognize that there are bugs, Microsoft is often > not too proud or presumptious to assume, right off the bat, > that its the user problem and not the manufacturer's problem. I know that a lot of people really dislike MS, but they are the company that brought computing to the masses. And they really over the years have supported developers. I would never have even done any programming without VB. Started with 2.0. Let those gurus learn C. Their knowledge base is an incredible resource and they put out a lot of good free training materials for professionals and non-professionals like me. They actually understand, at least they did in the past, that it's the developers who drive sales for their products. If they make it easy to write programs for windows, then more programs will get written, and more copies of their operating systems will get bought. That's why they have a monopoly--they built really good tools to use to program with as long as you were programing for windows. Go to shareware.com or wherever and you will find literally hundreds of thousands of programs written in VB or Access. Each one drove a sale for a computer and an operating system. > > (If you're thinking Oracle or dBase, then you have way TOO > MUCH money to spend, and we should have a conversation off > line so that I can help you spend that money on me .) Yea, if I was going to build a database program to run the Bank of America website it would probably Oracle (which of course I have absolutely no competence or desire to do). However if I was going to create a cookbook database(which I have done and found it to be quite a challenge- and then went out and bought an off the shelf one that was better) I would probably choose Access for windows, Filemaker for Apple. Access even has a wizard to automatically create a database and forms for collection management. They are really a good place to start. > > Don't be afraid to try as many databases as you are able to; > the learning experience is invaluable and if you're looking > for a quick solution, then perhaps you should just hire > someone to do this. Dive in and try whatever is out there. > After all, you can just uninstall any program that you no > longer have any use for. > Access even has a wizard to automatically create a database and forms for collection management. They are really a good place to start. Click a button and it will create you a music database, a book database, or a cookbook. All the tables fields and forms. Very good place to dive in--look how they set up their tables. > snip > > 1. Draw it out on paper. Keep it simple. Don't rush into > it. Spend a few > days thinking about what it is you want to record and which > fields are ultimately going to be important to you. e.g., is > locality more important to you? > or type of rock or mineral? or value? ABSOLUTELY--ON PAPER--ONLY WAY DRAW-THINK-DRAW-THINK DAYS NOT MINUTES > > 2. Sweat the details. Keep the fields simple and > accessible. Rather than > using ONE field for "city, state, zip", create three (3) > different fields for each so that you can easily sort on any > of those fields later on. And one more thing--creating the database itself--the tables and queries is really the easy part, in my opinion, unless it is something really complex. Creating a user interface that works well is much more difficult. Make sure you get the tab order right. Create so hardly every have to go to the mouse if entering text. I myself am a fan of big buttons with labels on them and shortcuts built in. Now the one I have created works good for the way I think--and that's why I did it that way. When looking for a program, you want to find one that works for you, not one that you work for. That's what a good interface does. Tommy Armstrong N 35* 23' 52'' W 78* 49' 9'' > Happy Holidays, > > Tom Russell > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From lanny at lrream.com Sat Dec 11 22:43:22 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sat Dec 11 22:42:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database -- My Suggestions In-Reply-To: <3k70kp$k0bt8u@mxip16a.cluster1.charter.net> References: <3k70kp$k0bt8u@mxip16a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <1DF16892-4C09-11D9-86F9-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> >> > > Very, very true. Filemaker comes to mind for Apple people. > > Filemaker is also quite popular in the Windows version. It is highly rated and easy to use. Lanny From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sun Dec 12 01:36:37 2004 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sun Dec 12 01:36:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <41BB8C55.3060700@att.net> References: <36.67d5bca3.2eebd0a9@aol.com> <41BA8F27.6000706@xs4all.nl> <41BB8C55.3060700@att.net> Message-ID: <41BC1125.90900@xs4all.nl> > I'm confused though . . . if it has 135 fields, I only count less than > 50 here; what are they all and what do they do? In my explanation I focused on the mineral part. The locality part also has numerous fields, like coordinates, type of deposit. In a subtable are more detailed geological data for the locality, like types of rocks found there with their ages. I also added a table for mining history. It says for instance who operated a mine and when, which is interesting in respect of old mining stocks etc. You also need a number of 'technical' field like ID's to connect the different tables. Again I'm not intending to fill up the entire database, I just want to have a structure where I can put my data and find it back again. For the mineral part it basically consists of three tables locality------junctiontable------mineral The locality table has all info about the site, like coordinates, type etc. Attached to this table are other tables with rocks, mining history etc. The mineral table has all the mineral data, like color, hardness, density, crystallographic data, etc. The juntion table is a way to connect the localities to the minerals in a n:m mode. So one mineral can occur in multiple localities and one locality can have multiple minerals. Basically this junction table only has two fields, locality and mineral. A record saying Tsumeb and Azurite connects all the Tsumeb data in the locality table with all the Azurite data in the mineral table. But this junction table is too good not to extent. It has data about the specific combination. So everything you put in this table has (in the example) effect on Azurite from Tsumeb ONLY. So this is a great place to say something about how azurite occurs in Tsumeb and what references there are about this occurence of Azurite. Since fluorescene often depends on the locality I also added a SW and LW field here. >> numbered 0967, and then 0967a is Eudialyte and 0967b is the >> Astrophyllite in the same specimen. The specimen should be stored in >> drawer E, because the 0967a is eudialyte. > > So the piece is > > I'm a bit curious here as well; why did you pick "E" over "A"? How > would you know to look in E? You might consider adding a "storage > location" field, which tells you, of course, where it is. In my example the first mineral mentioned under entry a is Eudialyte, so it will be stored as eudialyte, under E. A storage location field is also a good idea. I frequently loose track of minerals, but that only happens when the specimen is not where it should be. The only forensic clue of it's whereabouts is an empty spot in the drawer :-) > It sounds like you are doing the right thing, and if someone is > fortunate to acquire your collection intact, they will have a nice > catalog to go with it. It should be. But somehow I still find specimen in my collection that escaped registry. Cheers, Maurice > > All the best, > Don > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sun Dec 12 02:05:10 2004 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sun Dec 12 02:05:10 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database -- My Suggestions In-Reply-To: <3k70kp$k0bt8u@mxip16a.cluster1.charter.net> References: <3k70kp$k0bt8u@mxip16a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <41BC17D6.9000208@xs4all.nl> >And one more thing--creating the database itself--the tables and queries is >really the easy part, in my opinion, unless it is something really complex. >Creating a user interface that works well is much more difficult. > Amen! It is defenitely fun to do and puzzle about, but it can be very complex and time consuming. I designed an interface with just a few basic features. Because I know Access fairly well by now and I am the only user of my database I work with the tables directly. For my work I once designed a complicated user interface and database to run the office. It kept track of all (paper) files, conference room scheduling and that kind of stuff. The company was spread over several buildings and most information was allready present somewhere in other databases. I just made an interface, which took data literally from all over town. If you needed a document that was not on archive you could immediately see who had it, for how long and why and what his email ardess is.. You also could see that he reported ill and that there is no way you get your documents in time ;-) It really illustrated the power of databases. cheers, Maurice From naturesemp at earthlink.net Sun Dec 12 04:49:01 2004 From: naturesemp at earthlink.net (Nature's Emporium) Date: Sun Dec 12 04:49:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pen holder/stand supplies, where? Message-ID: <41BC3E3D.6020408@earthlink.net> National Art Crafts and they have a web site Gloria On 12/11/2004 6:33:42 PM, Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) wrote: > I am looking for the little brass or chrome plated pen stands that you > can epoxy to anything/something and make a beautiful pen holder display? > Any suggestions? > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From hptdesigns at charter.net Sun Dec 12 06:02:40 2004 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Sun Dec 12 05:57:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <41BC1125.90900@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <3khdfd$ekqsph@mxip04a.cluster1.charter.net> I really thought about doing it your way with having the locality in one table and the specimen data in another with a junction table. Probably more normal way of doing it, but I decided after looking at my collection and the fact that we have mine notes and other detailed stuff about the mine that needs to be saved with the specimen--I opted (or rather Don did) to have it in the main specimen table itself. So for example if you had a specimen from Los Lamentos Ahumad Mine level 2 and one from Los Lamentos Ahumad Mine level 3, they would essentially have to be separate entities in the Mine table. Just two way of thinking that both work. And also, since the mine would have to be viewed a s a subform of the specimen instead of directly in the recordset, it would not be able to use query by form to do searches on the mine. Micromounters are especially interested in levels, stope, etc. With my interface, they can simply search by mine and by stope and all specimens that meet those criteria are automatically returned (I did not have to do a darn bit of coding). Tommy Armstrong N 35* 23' 52'' W 78* 49' 9'' > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Maurice de Graaf > Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 4:37 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > > > > I'm confused though . . . if it has 135 fields, I only > count less than > > 50 here; what are they all and what do they do? > > > In my explanation I focused on the mineral part. The locality > part also has numerous fields, like coordinates, type of > deposit. In a subtable are more detailed geological data for > the locality, like types of rocks found there with their > ages. I also added a table for mining history. It says for > instance who operated a mine and when, which is interesting > in respect of old mining stocks etc. You also need a number > of 'technical' > field like ID's to connect the different tables. > Again I'm not intending to fill up the entire database, I > just want to have a structure where I can put my data and > find it back again. > > For the mineral part it basically consists of three tables > > locality------junctiontable------mineral > > The locality table has all info about the site, like > coordinates, type etc. Attached to this table are other > tables with rocks, mining history etc. The mineral table has > all the mineral data, like color, hardness, density, > crystallographic data, etc. The juntion table is a way to > connect the localities to the minerals in a n:m mode. So one > mineral can occur in multiple localities and one locality can > have multiple minerals. Basically this junction table only > has two fields, locality and mineral. A record saying Tsumeb > and Azurite connects all the Tsumeb data in the locality > table with all the Azurite data in the mineral table. > But this junction table is too good not to extent. It has > data about the specific combination. So everything you put in > this table has (in the > example) effect on Azurite from Tsumeb ONLY. So this is a > great place to say something about how azurite occurs in > Tsumeb and what references there are about this occurence of > Azurite. Since fluorescene often depends on the locality I > also added a SW and LW field here. > > >> numbered 0967, and then 0967a is Eudialyte and 0967b is the > >> Astrophyllite in the same specimen. The specimen should be > stored in > >> drawer E, because the 0967a is eudialyte. > > > > So the piece is > > > > I'm a bit curious here as well; why did you pick "E" over "A"? How > > would you know to look in E? You might consider adding a "storage > > location" field, which tells you, of course, where it is. > > In my example the first mineral mentioned under entry a is > Eudialyte, so it will be stored as eudialyte, under E. A > storage location field is also a good idea. I frequently > loose track of minerals, but that only happens when the > specimen is not where it should be. The only forensic clue of > it's whereabouts is an empty spot in the drawer :-) > > > It sounds like you are doing the right thing, and if someone is > > fortunate to acquire your collection intact, they will have a nice > > catalog to go with it. > > It should be. But somehow I still find specimen in my > collection that escaped registry. > > Cheers, > Maurice > > > > > > All the best, > > Don > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sun Dec 12 07:02:53 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sun Dec 12 06:54:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] pietra dura References: <485999BE-4B9C-11D9-8C1B-000A95A8FEB6@his.com> Message-ID: <002d01c4e05b$a8767dc0$64a3490c@pete> I enjoyed that description and the photo & story of the "pietra dura" cabinet, Catherine! Imagine--$36.7 M (I think that was it) for this piece of stone-inlaid furniture, and what was it, the 17th-most $$$ ever paid for any art object at auction, and the rest of which were paintings. Now THERE's something any rockhound with a lot of unused nice polished slabs could do--start working on creating an (almost) equally good, inlaid piece of woodwork! We probably have access to a lot more beautiful and interesting kinds of stones, than they did when this piece was crafted, in the 18th century. One could use charoite, sugilite, tigereye, eudialyte, tugtupite... Even if it only came out as something worth, oh, say only $35.7 million, it would still be worth it! [I do realize that the historic value of the old cabinet does add something.] P.S., a great place to see some related kinds of lapidary work is the Lizzadro Museum of Lapidary Arts, in the western suburbs of Chicago; I visited there 2 years ago--worth seeing! Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Gaber" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com : A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 10:44 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] pietra dura > dear rockhounds, > > the washington post had an interesting article today on an incredible > cabinet inlaid with pietra dura - hard, often precious, stone mosaic > that went up for auction thursday. those of you in europe may be able > to see it soon! > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A56502-2004Dec10.html > > cathy > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From DOMMELEN at DAL.CA Sun Dec 12 08:24:30 2004 From: DOMMELEN at DAL.CA (Ronnie Van Dommelen) Date: Sun Dec 12 08:24:33 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <3khdfd$ekqsph@mxip04a.cluster1.charter.net> References: <3khdfd$ekqsph@mxip04a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <1102868670.41bc70be7bb4f@my2.dal.ca> Hi All, Can pictures be included in these databases? I beg forgiveness if this has already been discussed. I have read a lot, but not all of the thread. Ronnie Van Dommelen From hptdesigns at charter.net Sun Dec 12 08:40:20 2004 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Sun Dec 12 08:35:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <1102868670.41bc70be7bb4f@my2.dal.ca> Message-ID: <3khj1h$eg74ir@mxip07a.cluster1.charter.net> At least in my database app, you can add as many pictures of a specimen as you like and also save as many "library pictures" that you would like. When thinking about a mineral database, one should exclude any that cannot retrieve pictures as that really is the best way of identifying that specimen. Check out http://geopubs.wr.usgs.gov/i-map/i2790/ for an incredible picture that would be a good library picture Tommy Armstrong N 35* 23' 52'' W 78* 49' 9'' > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Ronnie Van Dommelen > Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 11:25 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > > Hi All, > > Can pictures be included in these databases? > > I beg forgiveness if this has already been discussed. I have > read a lot, but not all of the thread. > > Ronnie Van Dommelen > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From hptdesigns at charter.net Sun Dec 12 08:41:07 2004 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Sun Dec 12 08:36:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Awesome Map Crater Lake In-Reply-To: <1102868670.41bc70be7bb4f@my2.dal.ca> Message-ID: <3khj1l$e99ajj@mxip09a.cluster1.charter.net> check out http://geopubs.wr.usgs.gov/i-map/i2790/ > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Ronnie Van Dommelen > Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 11:25 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > > Hi All, > > Can pictures be included in these databases? > > I beg forgiveness if this has already been discussed. I have > read a lot, but not all of the thread. > > Ronnie Van Dommelen > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From morningstar at att.net Sun Dec 12 08:43:09 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Sun Dec 12 08:42:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <3khdfd$ekqsph@mxip04a.cluster1.charter.net> References: <3khdfd$ekqsph@mxip04a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <41BC751D.9090007@att.net> Tommy Armstrong wrote: > I really thought about doing it your way with having the locality in one > table and the specimen data in another with a junction table. Probably more > normal way of doing it, but I decided after looking at my collection and the > fact that we have mine notes and other detailed stuff about the mine that > needs to be saved with the specimen--I opted (or rather Don did) to have it > in the main specimen table itself. I actually did it the more normalized way, or "by the book" as you might say. Each specimen has one, and only one locality from which it came; that is as much as part of the specimen record as your eye color is part of a description of you. I think I understand what Maurice is trying to do, and it's not "wrong" in the sense that it works, but it seems more focused on binding localities with species and therefore any queries directed at that concept will be easy. However, the same report or query can be constructed when the locality is included in the specimen record, it just requires a little more knowledge of the query language (MS SQL, in this case). Just to be pedantic and annoying for a moment: with a complex data model, you design the fields and tables around all the things that describe your universe of interest; i.e., all the things that make up a specimen. Then you design your reports and queries around the model. If you design your model to fit the reports and queries you think you want, you might find down the road that you want a new query, but you can't do it because the tables do not relate to each other in the correct logical manner. Don From morningstar at att.net Sun Dec 12 08:59:10 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Sun Dec 12 08:58:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <1102868670.41bc70be7bb4f@my2.dal.ca> References: <3khdfd$ekqsph@mxip04a.cluster1.charter.net> <1102868670.41bc70be7bb4f@my2.dal.ca> Message-ID: <41BC78DE.1010109@att.net> Ronnie Van Dommelen wrote: > Hi All, > > Can pictures be included in these databases? That's the beautiful thing about this generation of tools. Back in my early Oracle days, databases were meant to hold text. Now, with web enablement, HTML, links, multimedia, etc., you can do so much more with your applications. Most newer databses support Binary Large Objects (or BLOBs. Really). However, the better thing to do, in order to eliminate size concerns, is to store links or references to the media objects in a field, then use those links to pull up the photo, or Acrobat PDF file, or Word doc, or movie, or whatever! While most DBs these days support BLOBs, even if you have one that doesn't, you can use this little trick to refer to media objects. Not to keep repeating the issue, but I'm astonished at how well Tommy has done what the 4th generation of computing was designed to do: link together text info, media, and other web resources in a relatively seamless application that lets you record everything you can possibly want to record about the specimen. That was the original dream of the WWW: information stored in many formats, in many different places, linked together for viewing at any time and essentially without limits on the size or type of data. Ronnie, et al., whatever method you select, you are best served by a product that supports media objects, links, and rich formatting; otherwise, it will not remain viable for very long. The good news is that the latest versions of Access, Paradox, and others all support this type of flexibility. DB Don From hptdesigns at charter.net Sun Dec 12 09:06:45 2004 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Sun Dec 12 09:02:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <1102868670.41bc70be7bb4f@my2.dal.ca> Message-ID: <3k01ib$ij83k8@mxip19a.cluster1.charter.net> There was a database that was featured in Rocks and Gems about a year ago that was really pretty OK. I downloaded it thinking that I might want just chuck my project and buy, but it just did not work the way I wanted it to, and I could not modify it--and as a programmer, I am always wanting to modify. However--it was good in the fact that it did not require Office and pretty much self installed. Not really a bad implementation. They had essentially created it from a "real program" that was their bread and butter. Written in java and actually used Access formatted tables. For all yall that migh want a reasonably good self-contained program you should probably check it out. Don and mine has to have Office for it to work--and it is easier if that version is 2003. We wanted ours to be able to be modified by the end user--they wanted an executable. Both valid approaches. And if I was really in it for the money--I would have made it as an executable or at least a lot of registration stuff to make sure I did not get ripped off. We have essentially decided to trust anyone who purchases it not to copy and distribute it. Rockhounds, I have observed, are usually pretty trustworthy people and understand the concept of permissions. Tommy > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Ronnie Van Dommelen > Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 11:25 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > > Hi All, > > Can pictures be included in these databases? > > I beg forgiveness if this has already been discussed. I have > read a lot, but not all of the thread. > > Ronnie Van Dommelen > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sun Dec 12 09:23:23 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sun Dec 12 09:14:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice "one more time" Message-ID: <00e701c4e06f$49d4efe0$64a3490c@pete> Dear List, Mind if I revisit and ask for advice, "one more time", about digital cameras? I know this has been on this List several times, and I had asked for (and received) a bunch of advice from the list, back in August--but still haven't bought a camera. I'm hoping to do so now, though (like, this week let's say). So, here's my plea for answers to a few questions, from someone who is still only "partially literate" about digital camera, and is still bewildered by the number that are available, which seems like it must at least exceed the number of known mineral species! For a quick recap, I don't want/need a "super capability" camera, I want a simple one that is easy to use and to carry around and download pictures from. I still have my Canon SLR cameras and lenses for when I want to do fancier stuff, with film. I want reasonably good zoom capability, some modest (emphasize, modest) macro capability, but I'm not into micro photos of minerals, I suspect that something that gets me to within 5 cm of a subject is probably good enough for me, for photos in the field of rocks or flowers. I'm probably going to shoot for finding something to as close to the $200 price range as I can (hey, we're all on some kind of budget, right?). I want to take advantage of the convenience, simplicity, and low cost of a modern digital camera, not do all kinds of fancy stuff with it. I've looked at (and will go back to look at more) these websites that Lanny and others recommended earlier, that have good camera reviews: http://dpreview.com/ http://www.steves-digicams.com/ I suspect that what I'm going to try to do, is see what models of cameras I can look at firsthand in the local discount stores, then go back and compare features & prices on the internet, and then probably just buy one locally, unless there's a really significant $$ savings by ordering over the internet. Now, here are a couple of my questions, thanks much for any answers anyone can offer! Please excuse it if some of my questions are pretty dumb, out of not so much knowledge yet (or shall I just say, ignorance?). Let me start by saying that from what I've read so far, I'm thinking that something like a Canon Powershot A75 or similar camera, would probably do it for me. Something with 3 Mp, a 3x optical zoom, and 5 cm close focus distance, is probably good enough for me. I've been advised (via this List) that CF storage cards are perhaps more convenient than the others. That seems to mean Canon cameras mostly (which is fine with me, as I said, I've always liked my Canon SLRs). Any advice on that? Anyone have any comments on using one of the perhaps lower-end Nikon Coolpix cameras, that fits generally what I'm describing, as to how it would compare to the Canons? One of my dumb questions, when one buys a camera, does it come with whatever device or connector one needs to connect it to a computer, or do you have to buy a separate device to plug in the card to download the pictures? Or is the "standard" option a cable that connects the camera directly to the computer, and it's an extra item to buy, if I want a card-reader type device to pull out the card and connect it to a computer? And here's a dumb computer question, my computer is a fairly old model, and all the plug-in ports on the back are already filled up with devices; is that going to be an annoying problem, to plug in my camera? (It's a BIG pain to get to the back of the computer and plug and unplug connectors.) Is this going to be an extra incentive to get a new computer, too? My old one is a 350 MHz Pentium II. Thank you all, for any "final" advice anyone may have! (You may reply on or offline to the list, thanks). And happy holidays, Pete Modreski --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Dec 12 09:20:14 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Dec 12 09:20:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <20041211152241.48708.qmail@web51003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jim wrote: >I chose to have >separate fields for "entry number", the unique field, >and "specimen number". Thus all the minerals on a >given specimen have the same specimen number, but are >unique entries. I use an unique ID generator in Access that works as follows: The specimen-table has an auto counter. The ID-field is updated with a small VB-code. The code is executed on the "lost focus event" of the mineral name field (actually the code related to the mineral names that are in another table. Looks something like (off the bald top of my head): (on mineral field lost focus) ID.text = left$(mineral.text,3) & counter.txt so the code is generated each time I tab out of the field "mineral". If the 4566th mineral that I enter in my database is say cummingtonite, the code generated would be CUM4566. It's unique and hints at the mineral if you look at the label... CAL275 would most likely a calcite, unless it looks like small bleu XX... that would then be caledonite ;-))) >De gustibus non disputandum (if I remember my latin) Like they say in English: Les gouts et les couleurs, ca ne discute pas! ;-)))) Cheers Axel From hptdesigns at charter.net Sun Dec 12 09:29:46 2004 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Sun Dec 12 09:24:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3k77vr$eq2jpd@mxip08a.cluster1.charter.net> Nice--I thought about doing something like that but wanted the ID to be a long-interger instead of a text field. But very good way of doing what you wanted. I'll rememember that one. Tommy > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Axel Emmermann > Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 12:20 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > > Jim wrote: > > >I chose to have > >separate fields for "entry number", the unique field, and "specimen > >number". Thus all the minerals on a given specimen have the same > >specimen number, but are unique entries. > > I use an unique ID generator in Access that works as follows: > The specimen-table has an auto counter. The ID-field is > updated with a small VB-code. > The code is executed on the "lost focus event" of the mineral > name field (actually the code related to the mineral names > that are in another table. > Looks something like (off the bald top of my head): > > (on mineral field lost focus) > ID.text = left$(mineral.text,3) & counter.txt > > so the code is generated each time I tab out of the field "mineral". > If the 4566th mineral that I enter in my database is say > cummingtonite, the code generated would be CUM4566. > It's unique and hints at the mineral if you look at the > label... CAL275 would most likely a calcite, unless it looks > like small bleu XX... that would then be caledonite ;-))) > > >De gustibus non disputandum (if I remember my latin) > > Like they say in English: Les gouts et les couleurs, ca ne > discute pas! > ;-)))) > > Cheers > > Axel > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From arf at mc.net Sun Dec 12 10:44:27 2004 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Sun Dec 12 10:44:54 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice "one more time" References: <00e701c4e06f$49d4efe0$64a3490c@pete> Message-ID: <002b01c4e07a$a9c70180$b55c70d1@computername> Santa brought me a Digital Rebel and it's like I died and went to heaven. js Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage http://schmidling.com From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 12 12:09:38 2004 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sun Dec 12 12:09:41 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice "one more time" In-Reply-To: <00e701c4e06f$49d4efe0$64a3490c@pete> Message-ID: <20041212200938.95049.qmail@web51002.mail.yahoo.com> > For a quick recap, I don't want/need a "super > capability" camera, I want a simple one that is easy > to use and to carry around and download pictures > from. I still have my Canon SLR cameras and lenses > for when I want to do fancier stuff, with film. I > want reasonably good zoom capability, some modest > (emphasize, modest) macro capability, but I'm not > into micro photos of minerals, I suspect that > something that gets me to within 5 cm of a subject > is probably good enough for me, for photos in the > field of rocks or flowers. I'm probably going to > shoot for finding something to as close to the $200 > price range as I can (hey, we're all on some kind of > budget, right?). I want to take advantage of the > convenience, simplicity, and low cost of a modern > digital camera, not do all kinds of fancy stuff with > it. I have a Canon A60, and like it for a good general-purpose camera. It was about $ 250 at Walmart a year and a half ago. Probably a lot less now (or obsolete). I suspect the A75 is very similar. > > Let me start by saying that from what I've read so > far, I'm thinking that something like a Canon > Powershot A75 or similar camera, would probably do > it for me. Something with 3 Mp, a 3x optical zoom, > and 5 cm close focus distance, is probably good > enough for me. > One of my dumb questions, when one buys a camera, > does it come with whatever device or connector one > needs to connect it to a computer, or do you have to > buy a separate device to plug in the card to > download the pictures? Or is the "standard" option > a cable that connects the camera directly to the > computer, and it's an extra item to buy, if I want a > card-reader type device to pull out the card and > connect it to a computer? The A60 comes with the cable to connect to the computer via a USB port. I purchased a card reader (Kodak, $ 25) as well- seems to be easier to use, and saves the battery. The card reader connects via a serial port. > > And here's a dumb computer question, my computer is > a fairly old model, and all the plug-in ports on the > back are already filled up with devices; is that > going to be an annoying problem, to plug in my > camera? (It's a BIG pain to get to the back of the > computer and plug and unplug connectors.) Is this > going to be an extra incentive to get a new > computer, too? My old one is a 350 MHz Pentium II. > If you have USB, no problem. You can add a USB device that works like a "cube tap"- I forget what it's called. Jim Daly __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com From murowchickj at umkc.edu Sun Dec 12 12:40:51 2004 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (J B Murowchick) Date: Sun Dec 12 12:40:57 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice "one more time" In-Reply-To: <00e701c4e06f$49d4efe0$64a3490c@pete> Message-ID: Pete- FYI--This month's MacWorld has a great survey article on choosing a digital camera. It lists many models (an don't worry about it being a Mac magazine--the cameras work with Wintel platforms, too). I'm looking for a new digital cam, too. I have a Nikon CoolPix 950, which has been versatile, but it's time to move up. Nikon has a good reputation for their macro abilities (some of them will focus to around 1cm from the lens), but the Canons also get good ratings. The article covers all kinds of features you might want to consider in whatever you buy. I'm also looking at a Fuji Finepix 7000 (?). A friend of mine has one and uses it for nature photography, including macro work. She loves it. Jim ____________________________________________________ Dr. James B. Murowchick Associate Professor Office: (816) 235-2979 Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall Fax: (816) 235-5535 University of Missouri-Kansas City E-mail: murowchickj@umkc.edu 5110 Rockhill Road Kansas City, MO 64110 on 12/12/04 11:23 AM, Peter J. Modreski at pjmodreski@worldnet.att.net wrote: > Dear List, > > Mind if I revisit and ask for advice, "one more time", about digital cameras? From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sun Dec 12 12:59:26 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun Dec 12 12:59:25 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice "one more time" References: <00e701c4e06f$49d4efe0$64a3490c@pete> Message-ID: <001d01c4e08d$777b8210$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Pete, I have a Canon S-45. It is was purchased in May, 2003. I got the 256 MB flashcard to hold lots of pix on a trip to New England we took a few weeks later. The card that came with the camera had a 16 MB capacity (which I keep as a back up). I bought a flashcard reader to plug in the USB port - it cost $14 at a computer store. I also purchased a recharger, because the image screen sucks the battery down faster than you can imagine. I can't focus in macro mode within about 16" when the lens is zoomed out. (But form me that is sufficient.) I can get closer when it is not zoomed, but I find that if I'm shooting something with the flash, the image seems to become over exposed. When I'm outside, it is not as much of a problem. I purchased this model because I do a lot of photography through a binocular microscope and the S-45's small lens allows me to get excellent pictures. Since that is not your goal, a model with a larger lens may be better. I also have a Canon SLR which I still use. It is an F-1 circa 1976, a real workhorse model. A friend of mine swears by the Olympus model, digital, because he used/uses Olympus cameras for nature and cave photography. As you know there are a lot of models. Buy an inexpensive camera, you loose some flexibility. Ultimately, here is what you need to do: list the parameters you require and take them to a camera store. Even if you don't buy one from them, they may steer you towards certain models that meet most or all your needs. You can go on-line or to an electronics store to find them a little cheaper. Regards, Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" To: "Rockhounds@Lists.Drizzle.Com" Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 12:23 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice "one more time" Dear List, Mind if I revisit and ask for advice, "one more time", about digital cameras? I know this has been on this List several times, and I had asked for (and received) a bunch of advice from the list, back in August--but still haven't bought a camera. I'm hoping to do so now, though (like, this week let's say). So, here's my plea for answers to a few questions, from someone who is still only "partially literate" about digital camera, and is still bewildered by the number that are available, which seems like it must at least exceed the number of known mineral species! For a quick recap, I don't want/need a "super capability" camera, I want a simple one that is easy to use and to carry around and download pictures from. I still have my Canon SLR cameras and lenses for when I want to do fancier stuff, with film. I want reasonably good zoom capability, some modest (emphasize, modest) macro capability, but I'm not into micro photos of minerals, I suspect that something that gets me to within 5 cm of a subject is probably good enough for me, for photos in the field of rocks or flowers. I'm probably going to shoot for finding something to as close to the $200 price range as I can (hey, we're all on some kind of budget, right?). I want to take advantage of the convenience, simplicity, and low cost of a modern digital camera, not do all kinds of fancy stuff with it. I've looked at (and will go back to look at more) these websites that Lanny and others recommended earlier, that have good camera reviews: http://dpreview.com/ http://www.steves-digicams.com/ I suspect that what I'm going to try to do, is see what models of cameras I can look at firsthand in the local discount stores, then go back and compare features & prices on the internet, and then probably just buy one locally, unless there's a really significant $$ savings by ordering over the internet. Now, here are a couple of my questions, thanks much for any answers anyone can offer! Please excuse it if some of my questions are pretty dumb, out of not so much knowledge yet (or shall I just say, ignorance?). Let me start by saying that from what I've read so far, I'm thinking that something like a Canon Powershot A75 or similar camera, would probably do it for me. Something with 3 Mp, a 3x optical zoom, and 5 cm close focus distance, is probably good enough for me. I've been advised (via this List) that CF storage cards are perhaps more convenient than the others. That seems to mean Canon cameras mostly (which is fine with me, as I said, I've always liked my Canon SLRs). Any advice on that? Anyone have any comments on using one of the perhaps lower-end Nikon Coolpix cameras, that fits generally what I'm describing, as to how it would compare to the Canons? One of my dumb questions, when one buys a camera, does it come with whatever device or connector one needs to connect it to a computer, or do you have to buy a separate device to plug in the card to download the pictures? Or is the "standard" option a cable that connects the camera directly to the computer, and it's an extra item to buy, if I want a card-reader type device to pull out the card and connect it to a computer? And here's a dumb computer question, my computer is a fairly old model, and all the plug-in ports on the back are already filled up with devices; is that going to be an annoying problem, to plug in my camera? (It's a BIG pain to get to the back of the computer and plug and unplug connectors.) Is this going to be an extra incentive to get a new computer, too? My old one is a 350 MHz Pentium II. Thank you all, for any "final" advice anyone may have! (You may reply on or offline to the list, thanks). And happy holidays, Pete Modreski --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Dec 12 13:53:05 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Dec 12 13:50:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? References: <3khdfd$ekqsph@mxip04a.cluster1.charter.net> <1102868670.41bc70be7bb4f@my2.dal.ca> <41BC78DE.1010109@att.net> Message-ID: <41BCBD39.C4E@Tomaszewski.net> Don H wrote: > can possibly want to record about the specimen. That was the original > dream of the WWW: information stored in many formats, in many different > places, linked together for viewing at any time and essentially without > limits on the size or type of data. When I started cataloging my collection years ago I elected to put it into a web based format. Instead of following the database model I choose to emulate the traditional index card catalog. What I ended up with is; Principal Mineral, Formula, Images, Locality, When Collected, Matrix, Secondary Minerals, Comments, Reference # (on label and specimen), Hardness, Streak, Specific Gravity, and Crystal Form. Sometimes the comments are many paragraphs long. An index also lets me get to all related specimens. Google makes it easy to search. The web gives me links to related resources like mindat and webmineral. And since almost every OS has a built in web server, you don't have to put up a public web site to be web based. The only software you need is a text editor, but you can get much more sophisticated. The data entry is the tedious part, no matter what catalog solution you select. I'm keeping up with current acquisitions (but not their photos), and I continue to make slow progress against the backlog of specimens collected before I started the catalog some five years ago. But with the formats defined, I'm basically just filling in free-form fields, making a few links, and filing appropriately named (ref# plus unique sequence #/letter) pictures in a folder. Kreigh From tangojuli at yahoo.com Sun Dec 12 14:03:27 2004 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Sun Dec 12 14:03:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice "one more time" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041212220327.65872.qmail@web60806.mail.yahoo.com> Pete, I have a FujiFinepix 3000 and it has been wonderfully versatile, has all the features that would please a former photographer who gave up the Canon F1 and AE1. My brother and I each bought the finepix for Xmas last year, had focusing problems initially which forced us to consult the manual. Amzing what reading the directions will tell you. Close ups have been pleasing, high resolution 3.2 mp with not too much artifacting. What is really great is that downloading to computer is very easy and doesn't require much of me. My brother purchased the extra little unit to download the chip to which saved on his batteries, but I have rechargeables which has been the best investment ever. I purchased a high end 1-hour batt charger with car adapter that has been a life saver in remote areas. Flash spread is adequate in caves and mines up to 15-maybe 20 feet. I don't do macro other than close ups of specimens and haven't had an issue with them. The software provided with the camera is also nice for editing, but I'd recommend ACDC or other editing/storage solution for more in depth stuf. Comes with Lens hood, usb cord, and video cable. Other great perk--it resembles the AE1 and slr bodies with the hand grip which was a deal breaker for me. When I'm hangin upside down or have a hammer in one hand, I don't want a little square box tumbling out of my hand and the handgrip and design of the camera make it possible to do most things one-handed. Read up on the finepix technology; supposedly, their megapixels are constructed in a way that a 3.2 mp gives you same resolution as 5 or something (can't recall) The finepix comes with all kinds of cool stuff, and you can get all the accessories at any reputable camera store (ritz or mikes in the midwest). Check prices carefully during the holiday season. For the same price being offered at Best Buy and Computer World, my finepix last holiday season came with accoutrements at 50% off--which meant battery charger etc for $30 (price of a couple months worth of batteries) and flash card at half. The memory cards for the finepix have also halve in price since I bought this, so my $39 memory chip is less than half it was a year ago. Like Alan G. said in another response, finepix comes with 16 mg card which isn't enuf to get warmed up with and I too use it as a backup. The only prob I have with the finepix is that often after it has been turned off a while, the first image shot comes up with camera error which sucks when you run into bigfoot and jackie O walking by, but is ok shooting rocks which move much more slowly. Regarding a computer upgrade--you will appreciate that my recent upgrade from my 1999 compaq laptop 533mhz to my Pentium 4, 180 gig 2.80 ghz is like going from a pinto to a rolls royce. The prices on computers are always falling, and you can score great computer deals during the holidays--this HP pavillion was $999 in January and is now $699. It comes with a set of usb ports on the front a bunch of other outlets I haven't needed. The difference in working with big files and playing with multiple images simultaneously is too huge to convey. happy shopping! J B Murowchick wrote: Pete- FYI--This month's MacWorld has a great survey article on choosing a digital camera. It lists many models (an don't worry about it being a Mac magazine--the cameras work with Wintel platforms, too). I'm looking for a new digital cam, too. I have a Nikon CoolPix 950, which has been versatile, but it's time to move up. Nikon has a good reputation for their macro abilities (some of them will focus to around 1cm from the lens), but the Canons also get good ratings. The article covers all kinds of features you might want to consider in whatever you buy. I'm also looking at a Fuji Finepix 7000 (?). A friend of mine has one and uses it for nature photography, including macro work. She loves it. Jim ____________________________________________________ Dr. James B. Murowchick Associate Professor Office: (816) 235-2979 Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall Fax: (816) 235-5535 University of Missouri-Kansas City E-mail: murowchickj@umkc.edu 5110 Rockhill Road Kansas City, MO 64110 on 12/12/04 11:23 AM, Peter J. Modreski at pjmodreski@worldnet.att.net wrote: > Dear List, > > Mind if I revisit and ask for advice, "one more time", about digital cameras? _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do good. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From CRAZYDOVE at aol.com Sun Dec 12 14:29:14 2004 From: CRAZYDOVE at aol.com (CRAZYDOVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Dec 12 14:29:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice "one more time" Message-ID: <97.548e6d94.2eee203a@aol.com> Hi..as far as plugging in the device..I use one of those multi port USB devices. You plug one end into the pc USB port..and have 4-5 USB ports at the other end of it. I also invested in a card reader for my dig camera, I take the memory card out, slide it into the reader..and then proceed to upload the photos. Fairly easy! I have a Kodak Digital Camera, a few years old..ran around 225 about 3-4 years ago. Woiks for me! Good Luck..Jackie --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From geenet2 at mchsi.com Sun Dec 12 18:41:10 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Sun Dec 12 18:41:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Thanks for the Micromounts.....answers. References: <3khj1l$e99ajj@mxip09a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <017801c4e0bd$34e9e100$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Thanks to all those who responded with info about micromounts. I got a lot of good information, and a starting point. Woke a lot of folks up with that question, didn't I? Jeanette From morningstar at att.net Sun Dec 12 18:45:59 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Sun Dec 12 18:44:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Thanks for the Micromounts.....answers. In-Reply-To: <017801c4e0bd$34e9e100$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> References: <3khj1l$e99ajj@mxip09a.cluster1.charter.net> <017801c4e0bd$34e9e100$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <41BD0267.5010002@att.net> Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > Thanks to all those who responded with info about micromounts. I got a lot > of good information, and a starting point. Woke a lot of folks up with that > question, didn't I? Did you get a stereo microscope yet? You can get a decent used one for a few hundred. A nice Hastings triplet 10X loupe is about $50. Join the ranks of the tiny! Don From geenet2 at mchsi.com Sun Dec 12 18:56:44 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Sun Dec 12 18:56:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Thanks for the Micromounts.....answers. References: <3khj1l$e99ajj@mxip09a.cluster1.charter.net><017801c4e0bd$34e9e100$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <41BD0267.5010002@att.net> Message-ID: <01a601c4e0bf$61a81fc0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> > Did you get a stereo microscope yet? You can get a decent used one for > a few hundred. Don't think we're quite ready to go out and invest in a stereo microscope, but I've always considered one nice to have. A nice Hastings triplet 10X loupe is about $50. Join > the ranks of the tiny! We have a 10X loupe, bought it from Ebersoles at the rock show. It's not a deluxe model, but will have to do for now. Thanks, we'll let ya'll know when we find our first mini- micro- or otherwise tiny mineral. Jeanette > > > Don > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From morningstar at att.net Sun Dec 12 19:08:50 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Sun Dec 12 19:07:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Thanks for the Micromounts.....answers. In-Reply-To: <01a601c4e0bf$61a81fc0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> References: <3khj1l$e99ajj@mxip09a.cluster1.charter.net><017801c4e0bd$34e9e100$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <41BD0267.5010002@att.net> <01a601c4e0bf$61a81fc0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <41BD07C2.9000606@att.net> Jeanette Wimpee wrote: >>Did you get a stereo microscope yet? You can get a decent used one for >>a few hundred. > > Don't think we're quite ready to go out and invest in a stereo microscope, > but I've always considered one nice to have. I was being sort of funny there (I need to remind myself that dry humor doesn't always carry across in e-mail). But seriously--use your loupe to check out the smaller stuff. If you like and appreciate what you see, then you can decide to upgrade. The good thing is that a quality scope, when cared for, will last you decades. Have fun, Don From johnjold at comcast.net Sun Dec 12 19:36:21 2004 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Sun Dec 12 19:36:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Thanks for the Micromounts.....answers. In-Reply-To: <01a601c4e0bf$61a81fc0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> References: <3khj1l$e99ajj@mxip09a.cluster1.charter.net><017801c4e0bd$34e9e100$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <41BD0267.5010002@att.net> <01a601c4e0bf$61a81fc0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <284222DF-4CB8-11D9-8F0B-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> There is an item at Radio Shack that may be of interest to micromounters for field work. They have a microscope that zooms from 60 to 100 power and lights up with AAA batteries. It comes in a carrying case and sells for a whopping $9.95. I read about it on a science web chatline. Had to go to two Radio Shacks to get one but it was worth it. It is small enough that I can't find mine right now. Easily pocket size. Try to keep both eyes open, it gets easier with practice and really causes less eye strain. Even your house dust is fascinating at that power. On Dec 12, 2004, at 9:56 PM, Jeanette Wimpee wrote: >> Did you get a stereo microscope yet? You can get a decent used one >> for >> a few hundred. > > Don't think we're quite ready to go out and invest in a stereo > microscope, > but I've always considered one nice to have. > > A nice Hastings triplet 10X loupe is about $50. Join >> the ranks of the tiny! > > We have a 10X loupe, bought it from Ebersoles at the rock show. It's > not a > deluxe model, but will have to do for now. > > Thanks, we'll let ya'll know when we find our first mini- micro- or > otherwise tiny mineral. > Jeanette > > > >> >> >> Don >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From hptdesigns at charter.net Sun Dec 12 20:39:46 2004 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Sun Dec 12 20:35:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <41BCBD39.C4E@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <3khj1f$eb4h8d@mxip06a.cluster1.charter.net> I was driving to Raleigh to a ballet and got thinking about this thread and what database would be best for a newbie or one who wanted to design his own. And I came to the same conclusion as Kreigh. I think a newbie would be best to just create a website using something like Frontpage or Dreamweaver or Adobe GoLive and I am sure there are others out there==perhaps Kreigh would have some suggestions. Quick price check showed Frontpage as quite a bit cheaper, but have only done a little web design. But if one puts the learning into figuring out how to create a data driven site, he would probably end up with a more useful skill set as he could apply that to other webdesigns. And Frontpage automatically creates an Access database--I'm sure Dreamweaver does likewise. So instead of creating a database--create a website. I am no expert, but I am sure there are plenty out there. Tommy > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Kreigh Tomaszewski > Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 4:53 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? > > Don H wrote: > > can possibly want to record about the specimen. That was > the original > > dream of the WWW: information stored in many formats, in many > > different places, linked together for viewing at any time and > > essentially without limits on the size or type of data. > > When I started cataloging my collection years ago I elected > to put it into a web based format. Instead of following the > database model I choose to emulate the traditional index card > catalog. What I ended up with is; Principal Mineral, Formula, > Images, Locality, When Collected, Matrix, Secondary Minerals, > Comments, Reference # (on label and specimen), Hardness, > Streak, Specific Gravity, and Crystal Form. > Sometimes the comments are many paragraphs long. > > An index also lets me get to all related specimens. Google > makes it easy to search. The web gives me links to related > resources like mindat and webmineral. And since almost every > OS has a built in web server, you don't have to put up a > public web site to be web based. The only software you need > is a text editor, but you can get much more sophisticated. > > The data entry is the tedious part, no matter what catalog > solution you select. I'm keeping up with current acquisitions > (but not their photos), and I continue to make slow progress > against the backlog of specimens collected before I started > the catalog some five years ago. But with the formats > defined, I'm basically just filling in free-form fields, > making a few links, and filing appropriately named (ref# plus > unique sequence > #/letter) pictures in a folder. > > Kreigh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From TomE61 at aol.com Sun Dec 12 20:56:23 2004 From: TomE61 at aol.com (TomE61@aol.com) Date: Sun Dec 12 20:56:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digital Camera Advice -- Taking Better Pictures Message-ID: <104.5659ce45.2eee7af7@aol.com> I own a digital camera (Canon PowerShot) and it is easy to use and does an excellent job, although I must confess, upfront, that I am an ADEQUATE photographer. And I'm probably being kind to myself. However, I did run across this posting about taking pictures of mineral specimens and thought it might come in handy for some of you. Enjoy ! http://www.minrec.org/photography.html Happy Holidays, Tom Russell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From afox at drizzle.com Sun Dec 12 22:31:40 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Sun Dec 12 22:31:42 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice "one more time" In-Reply-To: <00e701c4e06f$49d4efe0$64a3490c@pete> Message-ID: Pete, I have a Canon Powershot A85 that I just got for my trip (after breaking the CF adapated in the one I'd borrowed....:-( ). I'm mixed on it. The good ---------- Excellent optics (4x optical zoom, 5x digital zoom) USB 2 transfer speed Intuitive camera UI Fine-grained control (can set aperture, shutter speed, iso settings, etc.) Macro focus lens setting allows for fairly (0.5 m) close-up focusing. I would NOT want to use this camera for working on micromounts; it won't focus that close. Takes good pictures (I can post samples if you'd like) The bad --------- Autofocus is iffy. Autofocus memory (i.e. you focus on an object and then drag the camera to frame the shot you want) doesn't work right. Firmware upgrade, maybe? Eats batteries like there is no tomorrow The fugly --------- The software sucks; it's a PiTA to transfer pictures to and from the camera. I'd rather a drag-n-drop interface than the Canon Visual Basic forms interface. It installs nine or ten different applications, all in different spots, with a million registry hooks (some of which are in very sneaky spots). Can you tell I don't like the software? That's one man's opinion. I would also get a portable folding monopod for whatever camera you get. I'm finding that lots of my pictures are in places with fairly low light levels, but where a flash will wash out the scene. I'm regretting not picking one up before I left the States. YMMV. Aaron -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From rockcurrier at cs.com Wed Dec 22 01:01:49 2004 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Mon Dec 13 01:00:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Splitting boulders References: <200412120202.iBC22F2f031238@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <012801c4e804$e081e960$4af6a5d8@rock5> Splitting boulders always seemed difficult to me until I saw the way the locals near Banglor, India split granite boulders into building blocks, telephone polls, 7 ft fence posts etc. The local quarry workers went to work each day with a little cloth sack that had a three or four pound short handled steel hammer with a bamboo handle that they would insert in the hammer head when they needed to hammer their little chisels. The chisels were made from three quarter inch rebar that a black smith had hammered a chisel point on one end and tempered the tip of to make it harder. The rebar chisels were used to make little holes in the granite. The chisels were only about six inches long and after they had a little hole started they would just leave it wedged in the hole and then place the next one the same way about a foot to 18 inches distant. They would make a line of these little holes with chisels in them all the way across the top of the boulder and then just start hammering on them in succession till the boulder split. The split was usually quite clean and fairly straight for they understood the "grain" of the granite. I saw house size boulders that were cleanly split down the middle. They just kept making more lines of holes till they got the granite down to whatever size they wanted. At the time a seven foot granite fence post about four to five inches in diameter cost $1.25. Probably cheaper than an equivalent size fence post and it would last ten to twenty times longer. I thought about importing some, but figured the cost of putting them on a boat would double the cost of the posts. Oh well, another million dollar idea down the drain. Rock Currier From rockcurrier at cs.com Wed Dec 22 01:01:58 2004 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Mon Dec 13 01:01:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Splitting boulders References: <200412120202.iBC22F2f031238@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <012901c4e804$e6945310$4af6a5d8@rock5> Splitting boulders always seemed difficult to me until I saw the way the locals near Banglor, India split granite boulders into building blocks, telephone polls, 7 ft fence posts etc. The local quarry workers went to work each day with a little cloth sack that had a three or four pound short handled steel hammer with a bamboo handle that they would insert in the hammer head when they needed to hammer their little chisels. The chisels were made from three quarter inch rebar that a black smith had hammered a chisel point on one end and tempered the tip of to make it harder. The rebar chisels were used to make little holes in the granite. The chisels were only about six inches long and after they had a little hole started they would just leave it wedged in the hole and then place the next one the same way about a foot to 18 inches distant. They would make a line of these little holes with chisels in them all the way across the top of the boulder and then just start hammering on them in succession till the boulder split. The split was usually quite clean and fairly straight for they understood the "grain" of the granite. I saw house size boulders that were cleanly split down the middle. They just kept making more lines of holes till they got the granite down to whatever size they wanted. At the time a seven foot granite fence post about four to five inches in diameter cost $1.25. Probably cheaper than an equivalent size fence post and it would last ten to twenty times longer. I thought about importing some, but figured the cost of putting them on a boat would double the cost of the posts. Oh well, another million dollar idea down the drain. Rock Currier From rockcurrier at cs.com Mon Dec 13 03:14:41 2004 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Mon Dec 13 03:13:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Marcasite jewelry References: <200412110201.iBB20wS1023639@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <005c01c4e104$f20b1d70$4af6a5d8@rock5> Dear Bill, Most of the marcasite jewelry that is sold these days consists of many very small slightly faceted and polished stones of Peruvian pyrite (fools gold) in the .5 to 2mm range, usually covering or partly covering the jewelry and set down into it. I have never seen or heard of any clear stones that have been called marcasite. Marcasite is an iron sulfide mineral that has a brassy look similar to fools gold and usually somewhat more prone to decomposition. Perhaps someone in the chat group can give you better information. Rock Currier From cweinber at bcpl.net Mon Dec 13 05:32:02 2004 From: cweinber at bcpl.net (Carolyn Weinberger) Date: Mon Dec 13 05:35:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Thanks for the Micromounts.....answers. In-Reply-To: <01a601c4e0bf$61a81fc0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <5F7607E6-4D0B-11D9-A497-0005025E4230@bcpl.net> Jeanette, You can sometimes find good used stereo microscopes, but before you purchase any scope check out Absolute Clarity and Calibration's website. Jim gives an excellent report on scopes that are worth purchasing and those to definitely avoid. The website is C On Sunday, December 12, 2004, at 09:56 PM, Jeanette Wimpee wrote: >> Did you get a stereo microscope yet? You can get a decent used one >> for >> a few hundred. > > Don't think we're quite ready to go out and invest in a stereo > microscope, > but I've always considered one nice to have. > > A nice Hastings triplet 10X loupe is about $50. Join >> the ranks of the tiny! > > We have a 10X loupe, bought it from Ebersoles at the rock show. It's > not a > deluxe model, but will have to do for now. > > Thanks, we'll let ya'll know when we find our first mini- micro- or > otherwise tiny mineral. > Jeanette > > > >> >> >> Don >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Mon Dec 13 06:33:50 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Mon Dec 13 06:25:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Splitting boulders References: <200412120202.iBC22F2f031238@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <012801c4e804$e081e960$4af6a5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <001e01c4e120$c449f200$1fa6490c@pete> A nice story about splitting the granite fence posts in India, Rock. I always remember from seeing a slide show about Indian zeolites, pictures of the local people working the aggregate quarries--for crushed stone for road building, not for minerals--totally by hand, breaking up all those basalt boulders with sledge hammers for road gravel. "It's a different world over there." Thanks for the marcasite jewelry note too--you are a real fountain of information, sir! (I guess, what else can you expect, from someone named "Rock"?) Cheers, Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rock Currier" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 2:01 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Splitting boulders > Splitting boulders always seemed difficult to me until I saw the way the > locals near Banglor, India split granite boulders into building blocks, > telephone polls, 7 ft fence posts etc. The local quarry workers went to work > each day with a little cloth sack that had a three or four pound short > handled steel hammer with a bamboo handle that they would insert in the > hammer head when they needed to hammer their little chisels. The chisels > were made from three quarter inch rebar that a black smith had hammered a > chisel point on one end and tempered the tip of to make it harder. The rebar > chisels were used to make little holes in the granite. The chisels were only > about six inches long and after they had a little hole started they would > just leave it wedged in the hole and then place the next one the same way > about a foot to 18 inches distant. They would make a line of these little > holes with chisels in them all the way across the top of the boulder and > then just start hammering on them in succession till the boulder split. The > split was usually quite clean and fairly straight for they understood the > "grain" of the granite. I saw house size boulders that were cleanly split > down the middle. They just kept making more lines of holes till they got the > granite down to whatever size they wanted. At the time a seven foot granite > fence post about four to five inches in diameter cost $1.25. Probably > cheaper than an equivalent size fence post and it would last ten to twenty > times longer. I thought about importing some, but figured the cost of > putting them on a boat would double the cost of the posts. Oh well, another > million dollar idea down the drain. > > Rock Currier > From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Mon Dec 13 06:47:03 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Mon Dec 13 06:38:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice "one more time" References: Message-ID: <002301c4e122$a24cdb20$1fa6490c@pete> Thanks very much, several of you, for the advice on cameras. May I say, I am thinking of getting--for me, a Minolta "DiMAGE" Z10 (3 mp, 8X zoom, and macro focus to 1 cm). My son just got one of these as a birthday present from his girlfriend, and he says it's great (I think he got the Z2 model with 4 mp and a 10X zoom--that goes for a few more $$). And for my stepson (who doesn't care about macro), a Kodak Easy Shot CX7430 or 7430. Does anyone have any last minute good/bad personal comments to share about either of these brands or models? I just may go buy them today! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Fox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 11:31 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice "one more time" > Pete, > > I have a Canon Powershot A85 that I just got for my trip (after breaking > the CF adapated in the one I'd borrowed....:-( ). I'm mixed on it. > > The good > ---------- > Excellent optics (4x optical zoom, 5x digital zoom) > USB 2 transfer speed > Intuitive camera UI > Fine-grained control (can set aperture, shutter speed, iso settings, etc.) > Macro focus lens setting allows for fairly (0.5 m) close-up focusing. I > would NOT want to use this camera for working on micromounts; it won't > focus that close. > Takes good pictures (I can post samples if you'd like) > > The bad > --------- > Autofocus is iffy. > Autofocus memory (i.e. you focus on an object and then drag the camera to > frame the shot you want) doesn't work right. Firmware upgrade, maybe? > Eats batteries like there is no tomorrow > > The fugly > --------- > The software sucks; it's a PiTA to transfer pictures to and from the > camera. I'd rather a drag-n-drop interface than the Canon Visual Basic > forms interface. It installs nine or ten different applications, all in > different spots, with a million registry hooks (some of which are in very > sneaky spots). > > Can you tell I don't like the software? > > That's one man's opinion. I would also get a portable folding monopod for > whatever camera you get. I'm finding that lots of my pictures are in > places with fairly low light levels, but where a flash will wash out the > scene. I'm regretting not picking one up before I left the States. > > YMMV. > > Aaron > > -- > afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox > FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your > computer. Press any key to reboot > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Mon Dec 13 06:51:27 2004 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 13 06:51:33 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Splitting boulders Message-ID: I use the same method when quarrying fossils. The idea is to bring up as large a slab as possible to expose as complete a fossil as possible. In most, but not all fossil localities we have the advantage of working a bedding plane, which will tend to split along the plane anyway. However, in most cases the bedding plane is interrupted by numerous weak areas and so splitting a large slab is essential. Of course we use sledges and real chisels, usually flat chisels. In one Illinois quarry, we were getting large numbers of Mississippian shark teeth. If we tried to get small pieces the teeth usually shattered since they had lots of micro cracks in them already. If we took up a slab that was obviously loaded we would take it home without further digging to find better teeth. That work was better left to the prep lab where we could enusre that the best teeth did not get broken by our recovery efforts. To ensure the slabs did not damage each other in the trunk or back of the truck, we brought lots of old cardboard boxes broken down. You can get these at places like K-mart and Wal Mart by dumpster diving... or asking them if you know someone. Just be sure to remove the staples. 2 or 3 layers of cardboard between the layers of rock provides pretty good protection, You can also bend one around the edges of a slab and place some around the edges of the bed to protect the edges and the bed liner. BTW. The biggest slab we pulled up at the Illinois location was about 5 feet square and about 5 inches thick. Took a few of us to load and unload that one. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE In a message dated 12/13/2004 4:02:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, rockcurrier@cs.com writes: Splitting boulders always seemed difficult to me until I saw the way the locals near Banglor, India split granite boulders into building blocks, telephone polls, 7 ft fence posts etc. The local quarry workers went to work each day with a little cloth sack that had a three or four pound short handled steel hammer with a bamboo handle that they would insert in the hammer head when they needed to hammer their little chisels. The chisels were made from three quarter inch rebar that a black smith had hammered a chisel point on one end and tempered the tip of to make it harder. The rebar chisels were used to make little holes in the granite. The chisels were only about six inches long and after they had a little hole started they would just leave it wedged in the hole and then place the next one the same way about a foot to 18 inches distant. They would make a line of these little holes with chisels in them all the way across the top of the boulder and then just start hammering on them in succession till the boulder split. The split was usually quite clean and fairly straight for they understood the "grain" of the granite. I saw house size boulders that were cleanly split down the middle. They just kept making more lines of holes till they got the granite down to whatever size they wanted. At the time a seven foot granite fence post about four to five inches in diameter cost $1.25. Probably cheaper than an equivalent size fence post and it would last ten to twenty times longer. I thought about importing some, but figured the cost of putting them on a boat would double the cost of the posts. Oh well, another million dollar idea down the drain. Rock Currier --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From afox at drizzle.com Mon Dec 13 06:58:39 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Mon Dec 13 06:58:42 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice "one more time" In-Reply-To: <002301c4e122$a24cdb20$1fa6490c@pete> Message-ID: > May I say, I am thinking of getting--for me, a Minolta "DiMAGE" Z10 (3 mp, > 8X zoom, and macro focus to 1 cm). My son just got one of these as a > birthday present from his girlfriend, and he says it's great (I think he got > the Z2 model with 4 mp and a 10X zoom--that goes for a few more $$). And > for my stepson (who doesn't care about macro), a Kodak Easy Shot CX7430 or > 7430. Does anyone have any last minute good/bad personal comments to share > about either of these brands or models? I just may go buy them today! Avoid Fry's and Best Buy like the plague. Especially Fry's. This time of year, you'll get a returned box that may or may not work, or drive all the way to find out they don't have it. Neither store's websites adequately keep track of what's actually in stock. It might also pay to wait until after Christmas, too, WRT the prices. a. From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Mon Dec 13 07:12:27 2004 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Mon Dec 13 07:12:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice "one more time" In-Reply-To: <002301c4e122$a24cdb20$1fa6490c@pete> References: <002301c4e122$a24cdb20$1fa6490c@pete> Message-ID: <41BDB15B.7090200@xs4all.nl> I promissed myself not get involved in this one, but I can not resist. (I haven't read the complete thread, so excuses if I say something allready discussed) I can not give any comment on your choice of camera. I happily use a Nikon Coolpix 4500. It serves all my wishes (that is only the photographic ones). I have no experience with any other digital camera, so I can not compare. But depending on what you want 3mp might be a tad low. For publishing photo's on the internet it is OK. I used lower resolution until I was recently asked to make some high definition pictures suitable for publication in print for a Canadian mining company. My 4mp where OK for that, but I guess 3mp would be a little low. The higher resolution pics are really much better, but they take a lot of space in your computer and camera. Zoom is fine as long as it is optical zoom and not digital zoom. Digital zoom is just blowing up the pictures without getting more information. You can do this also afterwards with software like paintshop or photo suite. Higher resolution would allow more 'digital zoom' this way. Finally figure out if you can attach your model to your binocular microscope. Cheers, Maurice Peter J. Modreski wrote: >Thanks very much, several of you, for the advice on cameras. > >May I say, I am thinking of getting--for me, a Minolta "DiMAGE" Z10 (3 mp, >8X zoom, and macro focus to 1 cm). My son just got one of these as a >birthday present from his girlfriend, and he says it's great (I think he got >the Z2 model with 4 mp and a 10X zoom--that goes for a few more $$). And >for my stepson (who doesn't care about macro), a Kodak Easy Shot CX7430 or >7430. Does anyone have any last minute good/bad personal comments to share >about either of these brands or models? I just may go buy them today! > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Aaron Fox" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 11:31 PM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice "one more time" > > > > >>Pete, >> >>I have a Canon Powershot A85 that I just got for my trip (after breaking >>the CF adapated in the one I'd borrowed....:-( ). I'm mixed on it. >> >>The good >>---------- >>Excellent optics (4x optical zoom, 5x digital zoom) >>USB 2 transfer speed >>Intuitive camera UI >>Fine-grained control (can set aperture, shutter speed, iso settings, etc.) >>Macro focus lens setting allows for fairly (0.5 m) close-up focusing. I >>would NOT want to use this camera for working on micromounts; it won't >>focus that close. >>Takes good pictures (I can post samples if you'd like) >> >>The bad >>--------- >>Autofocus is iffy. >>Autofocus memory (i.e. you focus on an object and then drag the camera to >>frame the shot you want) doesn't work right. Firmware upgrade, maybe? >>Eats batteries like there is no tomorrow >> >>The fugly >>--------- >>The software sucks; it's a PiTA to transfer pictures to and from the >>camera. I'd rather a drag-n-drop interface than the Canon Visual Basic >>forms interface. It installs nine or ten different applications, all in >>different spots, with a million registry hooks (some of which are in very >> >> > > > >>sneaky spots). >> >>Can you tell I don't like the software? >> >>That's one man's opinion. I would also get a portable folding monopod for >>whatever camera you get. I'm finding that lots of my pictures are in >>places with fairly low light levels, but where a flash will wash out the >>scene. I'm regretting not picking one up before I left the States. >> >> YMMV. >> >>Aaron >> >>-- >> afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox >> FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your >> computer. Press any key to reboot >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From hbarwood at troyst.edu Mon Dec 13 08:13:28 2004 From: hbarwood at troyst.edu (Henry Barwood) Date: Mon Dec 13 08:12:15 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Thanks for the Micromounts.....answers. In-Reply-To: <017801c4e0bd$34e9e100$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: Hi Jeanette, You may want to try and come over for the Winter Micromount Gathering just to see what micromounting is all about. It is a good chance to look at scopes and talk with people about minerals, etc. We usually have lots of give-aways for beginners. Information can be found at: http://home.earthlink.net/~earlrock/wintermicro/index.html Henry -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Jeanette Wimpee Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 8:41 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Thanks for the Micromounts.....answers. Thanks to all those who responded with info about micromounts. I got a lot of good information, and a starting point. Woke a lot of folks up with that question, didn't I? Jeanette _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Dec 13 08:40:43 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Dec 13 08:40:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A good mineral database? In-Reply-To: <3khj1f$eb4h8d@mxip06a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: Hi Tommy, > And Frontpage automatically creates an Access database--I'm sure >Dreamweaver does likewise. So instead of creating a database--create a >website. Only if the provider allows for some accessory software to be installed. My provider doesn't and as a result some of the Frontpage extentions do not work: animated bullets, batabase, forms.... Axel From johnjold at comcast.net Mon Dec 13 08:42:56 2004 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Mon Dec 13 08:42:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Radio Shack Microscope Message-ID: <0A91505A-4D26-11D9-8F0B-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> The link will take you to the Radio Shack on line catalogue. Where the item is out of stock. They say to check local stores for availability. There is one knob for zoom from 60 to 100 power. The other knob is for focus. You have to refocus after zooming. I also had the price wrong. it is $9.99. To see the item. http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp? catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=63-1133 From LarryRush at worldnet.att.net Mon Dec 13 08:59:06 2004 From: LarryRush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Mon Dec 13 08:59:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral donations for schools References: <104.5659ce45.2eee7af7@aol.com> Message-ID: <000a01c4e135$2fab7aa0$30864c0c@fekib> A few weeks ago, someone on the list suggested that mineral donors and science teachers should get together in order to make specimens available to kids for study purposes. I would be willing to build a few web pages on my site and give administration time to such a project, if there are enough people here that would be willing to give specimens. This, in my mind, would be kind of a "clearing-house" approach, where the names and e-mail addresses of donors would be posted together with the names and e-mails of science teachers who are looking for donations. They could then contact each other, and arrange their own transactions, in any way they want. The only rule I would want to impose is that the donations be absolutely free, possibly excepting postage, which might be a negotiating item. I will put out feelers to science teacher associations to get the data from teachers. The minerals, as I envision this, would be basic ones, perhaps self-collected, and would be the kinds of things that might serve to excite the kids into knowing more about the science, such as mica, quartz, garnet, galena, pyrite, etc. I know most of us have these kinds of things stored away in our garages and basements, serving only to collect dust and revive old memories! Can I get an idea of who from this group would be interested in donating specimens on a regular basis? I would hope to have at least a dozen or so serious donors in order to get this started and maintained. I would appreciate any other ideas along this line, as well. Thanks.........Larry Rush www.connroxminerals.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tangojuli at yahoo.com Mon Dec 13 09:03:33 2004 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Mon Dec 13 09:03:36 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Radio Shack Microscope In-Reply-To: <0A91505A-4D26-11D9-8F0B-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20041213170333.80647.qmail@web60810.mail.yahoo.com> I believe I bought this from Edmund Scientific (sp?-can't recall the company name exactly) 3 years ago. It didn't last but week or so; the lens was also very poor if I recall correctly. That version at least was pretty disappointing but maybe this is a differnt version. tangojuli John Joldersma wrote:The link will take you to the Radio Shack on line catalogue. Where the item is out of stock. They say to check local stores for availability. There is one knob for zoom from 60 to 100 power. The other knob is for focus. You have to refocus after zooming. I also had the price wrong. it is $9.99. To see the item. http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp? catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=63-1133 _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do good. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From johnjold at comcast.net Mon Dec 13 09:45:06 2004 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Mon Dec 13 09:45:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Radio Shack Microscope In-Reply-To: <20041213170333.80647.qmail@web60810.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041213170333.80647.qmail@web60810.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yes it is a cheap lens (at the price of a couple of Starbucks). Mine has worked since July and everybody I have shown it to has at least said they were going to buy one. The efficiency of the simple lighting system means you can see ittsy bitsy stuff real good through the cheap molded lens. If I don't use it as a wheel block when I change a tire, it should last a long time. PS I own no stock in Radio Shack nor have any interest in them other than as a source of cheap toys. On Dec 13, 2004, at 12:03 PM, tango juli wrote: > I believe I bought this from Edmund Scientific (sp?-can't recall the > company name exactly) 3 years ago. It didn't last but week or so; the > lens was also very poor if I recall correctly. That version at least > was pretty disappointing but maybe this is a differnt version. > tangojuli > John Joldersma wrote:The link will take you to > the Radio Shack on line catalogue. > Where the item is out of stock. > They say to check local stores for availability. There is one knob for > zoom from 60 to 100 power. > The other knob is for focus. You have to refocus after zooming. I > also had the price wrong. it is $9.99. > > To see the item. > > http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp? > catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=63-1133 > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do good. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From tangojuli at yahoo.com Mon Dec 13 09:48:29 2004 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Mon Dec 13 09:48:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Radio Shack Microscope In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041213174829.76317.qmail@web60806.mail.yahoo.com> glad to hear your good experience with it. I'll give it another try then as I've been looking ever since for something reasonable. I'll remember not to use as a wheel block this time :) tangojuli John Joldersma wrote: Yes it is a cheap lens (at the price of a couple of Starbucks). Mine has worked since July and everybody I have shown it to has at least said they were going to buy one. The efficiency of the simple lighting system means you can see ittsy bitsy stuff real good through the cheap molded lens. If I don't use it as a wheel block when I change a tire, it should last a long time. PS I own no stock in Radio Shack nor have any interest in them other than as a source of cheap toys. On Dec 13, 2004, at 12:03 PM, tango juli wrote: > I believe I bought this from Edmund Scientific (sp?-can't recall the > company name exactly) 3 years ago. It didn't last but week or so; the > lens was also very poor if I recall correctly. That version at least > was pretty disappointing but maybe this is a differnt version. > tangojuli > John Joldersma wrote:The link will take you to > the Radio Shack on line catalogue. > Where the item is out of stock. > They say to check local stores for availability. There is one knob for > zoom from 60 to 100 power. > The other knob is for focus. You have to refocus after zooming. I > also had the price wrong. it is $9.99. > > To see the item. > > http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp? > catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=63-1133 > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do good. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From afox at drizzle.com Mon Dec 13 10:19:53 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Mon Dec 13 10:19:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice "one more time" In-Reply-To: <002301c4e122$a24cdb20$1fa6490c@pete> Message-ID: Sorry to keep the digital camera thread going, but a good link here (a guide to choosing): http://firingsquad.com/pfucata_digicam_guide_04/ You might wait a couple hours before viewing, as the site is currently slashdotted. a. -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 13 11:57:35 2004 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Mon Dec 13 11:57:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Radio Shack Microscope In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041213195735.35700.qmail@web51009.mail.yahoo.com> This sounds like something I bought quite a few years ago, only it was up to 30X. Worked reasonably well for field work, or carrying to a show.In fact, I just gave mine to my great-grandson. He's a budding rockhound, and wanted a microscope. Figured this would be better for a 6 year old. I don't recall where I got it, but the tradename was Tasco. Jim Daly --- John Joldersma wrote: > Yes it is a cheap lens (at the price of a couple of > Starbucks). Mine > has worked since July and everybody I have shown it > to has at least > said they were going to buy one. The efficiency of > the simple lighting > system means you can see ittsy bitsy stuff real good > through the cheap > molded lens. If I don't use it as a wheel block > when I change a tire, > it should last a long time. PS I own no stock in > Radio Shack nor have > any interest in them other than as a source of cheap > toys. > > On Dec 13, 2004, at 12:03 PM, tango juli wrote: > > > I believe I bought this from Edmund Scientific > (sp?-can't recall the > > company name exactly) 3 years ago. It didn't last > but week or so; the > > lens was also very poor if I recall correctly. > That version at least > > was pretty disappointing but maybe this is a > differnt version. > > tangojuli > > John Joldersma wrote:The > link will take you to > > the Radio Shack on line catalogue. > > Where the item is out of stock. > > They say to check local stores for availability. > There is one knob for > > zoom from 60 to 100 power. > > The other knob is for focus. You have to refocus > after zooming. I > > also had the price wrong. it is $9.99. > > > > To see the item. > > > > http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp? > > catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=63-1133 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. > Do good. > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Jazz up your holiday email with celebrity designs. Learn more. http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com From danielz at acmenet.net Mon Dec 13 14:03:48 2004 From: danielz at acmenet.net (Dan Z) Date: Mon Dec 13 14:03:52 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Some help with mineral ID? Message-ID: <000501c4e15f$a0651ba0$6401a8c0@M1Garand> I acquired these two crystals some time ago from a collector named Melvin Machin from Chicago. They are labeled "sturmanite" from the N'Chwaning Mine, Kuraman, South Africa. Perhaps they were sturmanite at one time, but they have obviously pseudomorphed to something else. They look more like sturmanite-shaped feldspar, now. I have posted a good picture (76K byte) at http://www.manyfacets.com/unknown.jpg. The crystals are about 1/2 inch in diameter. If anyone has any info on these, I would sure appreciate it! -dan z- From geenet2 at mchsi.com Mon Dec 13 15:41:39 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Mon Dec 13 15:41:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice "one more time" References: <002301c4e122$a24cdb20$1fa6490c@pete> Message-ID: <005601c4e16d$4b603e60$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> I have three different digital cameras. Each has different quirks you have to live with, but there are a couple of important (to me) ideas to consider 1. Get a camera that "fits" your hand. Try one out in the store and see if the shutter button is easy to find by feel. Too small a camera gets awkward trying to push the right button for settings, shutter, etc. 2. Picture quality...check the reviews at the UNbiased camera websites. Getting true color and sharpness may be the deciding factor. 3. Batteries??? I get 10 times the life out of Eveready E2 batteries in my HP camera, than the proprietary battery in the Canon S45. You can pick up more AA batteries almost anywhere, but you can't recharge the Canon battery in the field. BIG POINT WITH ME.. 4. Compact flash cards are the way to go. Not likely to disappear anytime soon. JMHO, Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice "one more time" > Thanks very much, several of you, for the advice on cameras. > > May I say, I am thinking of getting--for me, a Minolta "DiMAGE" Z10 (3 mp, > 8X zoom, and macro focus to 1 cm). My son just got one of these as a > birthday present from his girlfriend, and he says it's great (I think he got > the Z2 model with 4 mp and a 10X zoom--that goes for a few more $$). And > for my stepson (who doesn't care about macro), a Kodak Easy Shot CX7430 or > 7430. Does anyone have any last minute good/bad personal comments to share > about either of these brands or models? I just may go buy them today! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aaron Fox" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 11:31 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice "one more time" > > > > Pete, > > > > I have a Canon Powershot A85 that I just got for my trip (after breaking > > the CF adapated in the one I'd borrowed....:-( ). I'm mixed on it. > > > > The good > > ---------- > > Excellent optics (4x optical zoom, 5x digital zoom) > > USB 2 transfer speed > > Intuitive camera UI > > Fine-grained control (can set aperture, shutter speed, iso settings, etc.) > > Macro focus lens setting allows for fairly (0.5 m) close-up focusing. I > > would NOT want to use this camera for working on micromounts; it won't > > focus that close. > > Takes good pictures (I can post samples if you'd like) > > > > The bad > > --------- > > Autofocus is iffy. > > Autofocus memory (i.e. you focus on an object and then drag the camera to > > frame the shot you want) doesn't work right. Firmware upgrade, maybe? > > Eats batteries like there is no tomorrow > > > > The fugly > > --------- > > The software sucks; it's a PiTA to transfer pictures to and from the > > camera. I'd rather a drag-n-drop interface than the Canon Visual Basic > > forms interface. It installs nine or ten different applications, all in > > different spots, with a million registry hooks (some of which are in very > > > sneaky spots). > > > > Can you tell I don't like the software? > > > > That's one man's opinion. I would also get a portable folding monopod for > > whatever camera you get. I'm finding that lots of my pictures are in > > places with fairly low light levels, but where a flash will wash out the > > scene. I'm regretting not picking one up before I left the States. > > > > YMMV. > > > > Aaron > > > > -- > > afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox > > FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your > > computer. Press any key to reboot > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Mon Dec 13 16:52:24 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Mon Dec 13 16:52:25 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral donations for schools References: <104.5659ce45.2eee7af7@aol.com> <000a01c4e135$2fab7aa0$30864c0c@fekib> Message-ID: <005701c4e177$2d7840f0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I might suggest you make it more general - that is geological specimens - not just minerals. I recently donated something like four boxes of fossils to a teacher in Freeport, Maine. He wanted fossils, not minerals. To maximize the benefit of your kind offer, especially as a clearinghouse, keep in general. Many teachers would be happy to get samples of rocks! Because of the weight, my donations always involve the teacher to cover the shipping costs, which may be over $20 via ground rate. I can't afford to donate the shipping cost. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 11:59 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral donations for schools A few weeks ago, someone on the list suggested that mineral donors and science teachers should get together in order to make specimens available to kids for study purposes. I would be willing to build a few web pages on my site and give administration time to such a project, if there are enough people here that would be willing to give specimens. This, in my mind, would be kind of a "clearing-house" approach, where the names and e-mail addresses of donors would be posted together with the names and e-mails of science teachers who are looking for donations. They could then contact each other, and arrange their own transactions, in any way they want. The only rule I would want to impose is that the donations be absolutely free, possibly excepting postage, which might be a negotiating item. I will put out feelers to science teacher associations to get the data from teachers. The minerals, as I envision this, would be basic ones, perhaps self-collected, and would be the kinds of things that might serve to excite the kids into knowing more about the science, such as mica, quartz, garnet, galena, pyrite, etc. I know most of us have these kinds of things stored away in our garages and basements, serving only to collect dust and revive old memories! Can I get an idea of who from this group would be interested in donating specimens on a regular basis? I would hope to have at least a dozen or so serious donors in order to get this started and maintained. I would appreciate any other ideas along this line, as well. Thanks.........Larry Rush www.connroxminerals.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From newryqs at rochester.rr.com Mon Dec 13 19:31:04 2004 From: newryqs at rochester.rr.com (Van) Date: Mon Dec 13 19:31:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Some help with mineral ID? References: <000501c4e15f$a0651ba0$6401a8c0@M1Garand> Message-ID: <001401c4e18d$577a7ce0$6601a8c0@nathanqa8gl7gx> Sturmanite is photosensitive and turns brown on exposure to light. Knowing the rerason why would probably earn you an advanced degree. Van ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Z" To: "Rockhound list danielz frm" ; "Rocks-Fossils list (egroups)" Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 5:03 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Some help with mineral ID? >I acquired these two crystals some time ago from a collector named Melvin > Machin from Chicago. They are labeled "sturmanite" from the N'Chwaning > Mine, > Kuraman, South Africa. Perhaps they were sturmanite at one time, but they > have obviously pseudomorphed to something else. They look more like > sturmanite-shaped feldspar, now. I have posted a good picture (76K byte) > at > http://www.manyfacets.com/unknown.jpg. The crystals are about 1/2 inch in > diameter. If anyone has any info on these, I would sure appreciate it! > > -dan z- > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Mon Dec 13 19:45:32 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Mon Dec 13 19:36:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice "one more time" References: Message-ID: <002501c4e18f$5db60780$6ca6490c@pete> Thanks again, to Aaron and several of you, for your continued answers to my camera question. I did go out today, and buy the Minolta DiMAGIC Z10 camera. (It's supposed to be sort of a surprise Xmas present, I guess (from Santa to me?), so it'll stay hidden until then. But I think it'll be good, and the 1 cm close focus should be fine (I hope) for most rocks & minerals, and other nature stuff. This camera uses either regular AA or rechargeable AA batteries so I bought both with a charger including a 12V adapter, so I should never have to run out of power. And, I also did buy a Kodak CX7430 for Trevor. P.S., Aaron, that link to the site you sent, seems mostly to address whether one needs a true "SLR-like" digital camera, and which ones qualify as SLR-like. Thanks again to all, Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Fox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice "one more time" > Sorry to keep the digital camera thread going, but a good link here (a > guide to choosing): > http://firingsquad.com/pfucata_digicam_guide_04/ > From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Mon Dec 13 20:13:10 2004 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 13 20:13:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice "one more time" Message-ID: <46.5eba27a9.2eefc256@aol.com> I had a Canon S-20 which I used for several years till I dropped it on the concrete. It worked pretty good for a 3.2 megapixel with some optical zoom. I now have a Canon Digital Rebel.... Killer. A family member works for Canon and got me a hell of a deal. I'm in heaven. I had been wanting a digitial SLR for ages since this enables me to use different lenses and compose and shoot like a traditional SLR. The lenses from my Canon Elan II (pretty serious film SLR) fit the Digital Rebel. This gives me a couple of lenses to use. Next purchase is a Macro Lens to fit the camera, though one of the lenses I already have will do decent close ups.\\ Gene Hartstein Newark, DE --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From geenet2 at mchsi.com Mon Dec 13 20:46:30 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Mon Dec 13 20:46:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Thanks for the Micromounts.....answers. References: Message-ID: <00fe01c4e197$e12dc140$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Thanks for the invite.... I checked out the gathering and the location. Sounds fun, maybe we will take an early spring vacation. Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henry Barwood" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 10:13 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Thanks for the Micromounts.....answers. > Hi Jeanette, > > You may want to try and come over for the Winter Micromount Gathering just > to see what micromounting is all about. It is a good chance to look at > scopes and talk with people about minerals, etc. We usually have lots of > give-aways for beginners. Information can be found at: > > http://home.earthlink.net/~earlrock/wintermicro/index.html > > Henry > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Jeanette > Wimpee > Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 8:41 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Thanks for the Micromounts.....answers. > > > Thanks to all those who responded with info about micromounts. I got a lot > of good information, and a starting point. Woke a lot of folks up with that > question, didn't I? > Jeanette > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jpjunk at mc.net Mon Dec 13 21:02:42 2004 From: jpjunk at mc.net (jjunkroski) Date: Mon Dec 13 21:00:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral donations for schools In-Reply-To: <000a01c4e135$2fab7aa0$30864c0c@fekib> Message-ID: on 12/13/04 10:59 AM, Lawrence Rush at LarryRush@worldnet.att.net wrote: > A few weeks ago, someone on the list suggested that mineral donors and science > teachers should get together in order to make specimens available to kids for Larry< I was one of the people who suggested donating those unwanted specimens to teachers. Having spent nearly thirty years standing in front of fourteen-year-olds I have a couple of ideas. The young teachers I see coming in today have not had a chance to travel around the country and pick up their own teaching examples. Most of them would be excited to get any samples that are good, unmistakeable examples of one or more of the classic identification properties, like calcite which readily and cleanly breaks into rhombs, or galena or pyrite with bright metallic luster, or satin spar gypsum to show fibrous luster or native copper that the kids can hammer to show tenacity. A selection of several different colored quartz to indicate that color is not the most dependable clue. Rarely can school districts provide enough replacement samples each year to let each student actually reduce a sample to tiny bits, and you've never seen excitement in a classroom until you have twenty kids each able to cleave their own flourite octahedron and take it home to Mom. ( I used to do this on parents night and often had Moms giggling like their kids.) Or give them a grubby native copper nugget, some ketchup, salt and an old toothbrush and listen to the "OH, wows." This one I even passed on to the chem teacher. Another possibility is to provide some of the less readily available members of Mohs scale like topaz and corundum, any crummy fragment that the kids can actually use to scratch against quartz and feldspar. Rocks are another story. Several times I collected or mooched enough leaverite geodes on field trips so that at least half the kids could crack one and share it with a friend to take home. ( Everybody has to have a chance to take one... so think in terms of five gallon buckets here.) No teacher in the world has enough fossils; any slab with a glob of crinoids ( no, they're not fossil cheerios) would grace any teachers desk. Finally, fist sized or larger examples (they're much less likely to "walk off"): a really sparkly schist, a colorfully banded gneiss, a dribbly looking scoria, ( a volcanic bomb!), obsidian, graphic granite, any pegmatite, anything with any gem mineral, ( Do garnet crystals really GROW like that?), thunder-eggs, agates, pseudo-fossils, anything with eye-appeal. If shipping is a problem, make a phone call to your LOCAL high school; for 90% of us it's no more than a mile or two away. Ask for the science coordinator or the science department chair; ask them to refer you to the Earth Science teacher and tell them you have stuff to give away. I'll bet they'll find somebody to come pick it up. Get off the couch, go out behind the garage and start sorting. Do it! From tam2819 at cox.net Mon Dec 13 21:05:52 2004 From: tam2819 at cox.net (T.A.Masters) Date: Mon Dec 13 21:05:54 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral donations for schools References: Message-ID: <41BE74B0.90201@cox.net> Junk, Great Idea! Now to attack that rock pile in the yard. Terrie From Lapadary at aol.com Mon Dec 13 21:15:09 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 13 21:15:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral donations for schools Message-ID: <143.3abf1033.2eefd0dd@aol.com> In a message dated 12/13/2004 9:00:59 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, jpjunk@mc.net writes: Or give them a grubby native copper nugget, some ketchup, salt and an old toothbrush and listen to the "OH, wows." This one I even passed on to the chem teacher. OK, I'll bite. What do you do with them? Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From arf at mc.net Mon Dec 13 21:14:43 2004 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Mon Dec 13 21:15:20 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice "one more time" References: <46.5eba27a9.2eefc256@aol.com> Message-ID: <021701c4e19b$e677d510$bb5e70d1@S0033035959> From: > I now have a Canon Digital Rebel.... Killer. A family member works for Canon > and got me a hell of a deal. I'm in heaven. > > I had been wanting a digitial SLR for ages since this enables me to use > different lenses Unfortunately, not the lenses on my other Canon camera or my vast collection of screw mount lenses. I found a 28-300 mm EF lens for about $150. Can I assume that any EF lens will fit my Rebel? I was told by a friend that an adapter for my other lenses would preclude infinity focus. Is this true? js My first photo taken with my new Rebel is the POW this week. jjs PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.com From kahako at aloha.net Mon Dec 13 23:10:56 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Dec 13 22:41:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral donations for schools & volunteering In-Reply-To: References: <000a01c4e135$2fab7aa0$30864c0c@fekib> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041213204458.03dc0db0@mail.aloha.net> Hey, John or "Junk," YES! Do it! For anyone who is interested in helping kids, PLEASE read "Junk'"s message if you have not done so. Please consider volunteering or donating to your local schools in any way you can. This is a rockhound list, so donating rocks, fossils and minerals to teachers is the obvious way to go. Also go to schools and volunteer to give demonstrations to science classes (high school or middle school), or for all elementary teachers; the little kids drink this stuff up!! And I know many of you have interests other than rockhounding. At least in the US, many schools are cutting back or eliminating art, music and performing arts. If you or your spouse or friends have any talent or interest, or extra CD's or videos to donate...Go for it! In the spirit of the holidays: Giving and Sharing... Aloha, Kitty At 07:02 PM 12/13/2004, you wrote: >on 12/13/04 10:59 AM, Lawrence Rush at LarryRush@worldnet.att.net wrote: > > > A few weeks ago, someone on the list suggested that mineral donors and > science > > teachers should get together in order to make specimens available to > kids for > > >Larry< > >I was one of the people who suggested donating those unwanted specimens to >teachers. > >Having spent nearly thirty years standing in front of fourteen-year-olds I >have a couple of ideas. The young teachers I see coming in today have not >had a chance to travel around the country and pick up their own teaching >examples. Most of them would be excited to get any samples that are good, >unmistakeable examples of one or more of the classic identification >properties, like calcite which readily and cleanly breaks into rhombs, or >galena or pyrite with bright metallic luster, or satin spar gypsum to show >fibrous luster or native copper that the kids can hammer to show tenacity. >A selection of several different colored quartz to indicate that color is >not the most dependable clue. > >Rarely can school districts provide enough replacement samples each year to >let each student actually reduce a sample to tiny bits, and you've never >seen excitement in a classroom until you have twenty kids each able to >cleave their own flourite octahedron and take it home to Mom. ( I used to do >this on parents night and often had Moms giggling like their kids.) > >Or give them a grubby native copper nugget, some ketchup, salt and an old >toothbrush and listen to the "OH, wows." This one I even passed on to the >chem teacher. > >Another possibility is to provide some of the less readily available members >of Mohs scale like topaz and corundum, any crummy fragment that the kids can >actually use to scratch against quartz and feldspar. > >Rocks are another story. Several times I collected or mooched enough >leaverite geodes on field trips so that at least half the kids could crack >one and share it with a friend to take home. ( Everybody has to have a >chance to take one... so think in terms of five gallon buckets here.) > >No teacher in the world has enough fossils; any slab with a glob of crinoids >( no, they're not fossil cheerios) would grace any teachers desk. > >Finally, fist sized or larger examples (they're much less likely to "walk >off"): a really sparkly schist, a colorfully banded gneiss, a dribbly >looking scoria, ( a volcanic bomb!), obsidian, graphic granite, any >pegmatite, anything with any gem mineral, ( Do garnet crystals really GROW >like that?), thunder-eggs, agates, pseudo-fossils, anything with >eye-appeal. > >If shipping is a problem, make a phone call to your LOCAL high school; for >90% of us it's no more than a mile or two away. Ask for the science >coordinator or the science department chair; ask them to refer you to the >Earth Science teacher and tell them you have stuff to give away. I'll bet >they'll find somebody to come pick it up. >Get off the couch, go out behind the garage and start sorting. Do it! > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.5.2 - Release Date: 12/13/2004 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.5.2 - Release Date: 12/13/2004 From rockcurrier at cs.com Mon Dec 13 23:48:37 2004 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Mon Dec 13 23:47:41 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sturmanite crystals References: <200412140053.iBE0r8J3026714@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <003601c4e1b1$533c7ab0$4af6a5d8@rock5> Dan, your crystals at http://www.manyfacets.com/unknown.jpg certainly do look like sturmanite and almost certainly at one time were much more attractive than they are now. Sturmanite with dot 25 H2O is certainly would not make a candidate for the most stable mineral in the world. Tony Nickshire tells a funny story about putting a nice, fairly large transparent crystal of charlesite (26 H2O and a close relative to sturmanite) into his probe chamber and turning on the vacuum pump to evacuate the air from the probe chamber so he could probe it to check the elements in its composition. He said that for some reason it took a very long time to reach the purity of vacuum necessary to make the test. He was afraid that something was going wrong with his vacuum pump or that atmosphere was leaking in from somewhere, both possibilities implied time consuming trouble shooting and expensive repairs. He finally got the results of the test which did indicate that it was probably charlesite, equalized the pressure in the probe chamber with the outside air and took out the crystal which he had tested whole rather than break a piece off such a beautiful crystal. It was no longer beautiful or even transparent. It was all shrunken up and cracked. There was nothing at all wrong with his vacuum pump, it had done its work perfectly. It had sucked enough water out of the structure to change the character of the crystal completely. Sturmanite is just not a very stable mineral although a bit more stable than a mineral like laumontite. It just takes a bit longer to alter. When the sturmanites first came out of the manganese mines near Kuraman in South Africa, some of the better specimens were sold for several thousand dollars and many of them were sold for hundreds of dollars. I think that few of any of these specimens look as nice as they did when they were dug, probably because some of the water in their structure has "evaporated" from their surface "layers". It is just one more example of minerals altering their structures so they will be more stable in a new environment. I always congratulated myself for never having bought any of the expensive specimens because I thought the water indicated that they could not be stable. I did however keep several nice TN specimens "just in case they were really stable after all". Well, as it turned out, they are not very stable and the TN specimens I kept look about like your specimen does and I remember with irritation what they used to look like. I once went collecting in a dry lake bed near Taft, California for evaporate minerals like gluaberite and bloodite. The surface of the lake was more or less dry or semi dry salt on its surface. The trick was to break down through the salt crust in the center of the big polygonal shrinkage? structures of salt and dig down about three or four feet into a really unpleasant black gray mud where you would encounter beautiful crystal clusters of gray thenardite crystals and sometimes bloodite. On one occasion, the conditions in the mud was just right and mirabilite crystals were growing. You could pull out of the hole fabulous large cabinet specimens of transparent white crystals of mirabilite crystals which if they were any other mineral would sell for a thousand dollars each. After a few minutes they started to turn white on the surface and in the space of an hour or two would just sort of melt away into nothing. Perhaps a bit more stable than ice crystals. When you were done with a dig there you had to change your clothes for the ride home. The first time that you laid your digger pants on the ground to dry it came as a surprise that when dry you cold stand them up and they would not collapse. I have often wondered how many species would look the same after a thousand years in a display cabinet. I think it would be useful for someone to document how our currently known minerals from various known localities change over time. I think it is far more than most people think. There is no incentive for mineral dealers to do this for it will only make selling minerals more difficult. I wonder how many people who buy amethyst specimens from Rio Grande do Brazil are told that the color of the specimen they are buying will be a shade or two lighter in a few years. I in fact wonder how many of the dealers who sell these specimens know this. Rock Currier From newryqs at rochester.rr.com Tue Dec 14 06:16:03 2004 From: newryqs at rochester.rr.com (Van) Date: Tue Dec 14 06:16:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Greetings from the future References: <200412092249.iB9Mn2j7007761@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <010001f8740e$4c28d840$4af6a5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <001001c4e1e7$71bc0920$6601a8c0@nathanqa8gl7gx> Back in my day we didn't have plastic. We sat around the fire rolling up bits of thin card into oblong boxes. Sent some thin paper out to have our initials printed so we could use horse hoof glue to affix the monogram to the base. Used to have the children do this, but it was an incentive for them to move out when they became of age. BTW The three successive world record prices for true micromounts have all been for specimens from Franklin, NJ. The current record holder, $2,500, was a sliver of a specimen in a regular 7/8th inch box. Species name not to be revealed to protect the anonymity of the buyer. (There were two buyers available for the specimen, but the micromount was being held for a certain customer and another customer was seemingly willing to enter a bidding war if there were an auction. Micromounts have increased in price over the years, but many of the collections I've been seeing coming up for sale are full of $2 priced micros that languish for want of buyers. The Sahara sand micro you mention might actually sell compared to what most collectors are willing to glue up. Paul Desautels did say every collection contains some "junk". Mine does and I know John Barlow's did, although he didn't catalog the stray junk bits that many collectors might have valued as treasures. Maybe the exercise of having a banished micromounter mount up the sand wouldn't be a redeeming activity after all? As far as the arctic goes, I do have a "stabilized" snowflake from Wintrop, Maine in a micromount box.) Merry Holidays. Van From danielz at acmenet.net Tue Dec 14 06:58:13 2004 From: danielz at acmenet.net (Dan Z) Date: Tue Dec 14 06:58:15 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sturmanite crystals References: <200412140053.iBE0r8J3026714@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <003601c4e1b1$533c7ab0$4af6a5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <000401c4e1ed$55b34fd0$6401a8c0@M1Garand> Thanks for the info, Rock. One more question - if the sturmanite lost it's water content, wouldn't the changed formula then make it a different mineral, a pseudomorph of the sturmanite? -dan z- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rock Currier" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 2:48 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Sturmanite crystals > Dan, your crystals at http://www.manyfacets.com/unknown.jpg certainly do > look like sturmanite and almost certainly at one time were much more > attractive than they are now. Sturmanite with dot 25 H2O is certainly would > not make a candidate for the most stable mineral in the world. From Bobg532 at netscape.net Tue Dec 14 07:18:12 2004 From: Bobg532 at netscape.net (Bob G) Date: Tue Dec 14 07:18:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ReL Sand In-Reply-To: <003601c4e1b1$533c7ab0$4af6a5d8@rock5> References: <200412140053.iBE0r8J3026714@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <003601c4e1b1$533c7ab0$4af6a5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <41BF0434.9010701@netscape.net> In reference to fanatical micromounters mounting sand in the desert, I came across this reference in the New York Times. Dry Quicksand An air mount sounds ideal for the super-purists :) Bob G --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Dec 14 07:50:48 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Dec 14 07:50:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral donations for schools Message-ID: <121420041550.27328.41BF0BD7000BCB7E00006AC0216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Grant, and the gang, The ketchup (or anything else acid) removes the oxidation tarnish from the copper and makes it fresh and shiny. We did this one or two years, as a fun demonstration for kids at our USGS booth at the Tucson Show. My wife and I had just collected a bunch of thin flakes of native copper at the Santa Rita mine in New Mexico, and we had plenty to demonstrate with like this, and give away. Plain vinegar works too, but the ketchup is more fun. (I'm not sure about the salt; I presume it enhances the cleaning action.) We had dishes to demonstrate everything you could think of--ketchup, vinegar, mustard, and I think pickle relish too, and plain water as a control. The mustard didn't work very well. And of course, you can use pennies if native copper from a mine isn't available. Here at the USGS in Denver, we maintain a "Rock Room" where teachers are invited to come and take free specimens for use in their classes. We put out whatever is available; we always have plenty of "rocks" (sandstone, limestone, rocksalt (we have lots of drill core through salt beds), granite, basalt, pumice, etc.); the mineral are more variable--it depends on what we have, or what some of us have collected recently, or has been donated, so we often but not always have a supply of quartz, calcite, pyrite, muscovite, biotite, gypsum.... other things come and go. I've thought of asking the local rock clubs here for donations of some of the things we are periodically in short supply of. FYI, if anyone's coming through Denver at any time, here's a paragaph about some of the things at the USGS one can visit: best regards, Pete U.S. National Earthquake Information Center is located in Golden, Colorado, at 1711 Illinois St. on the Colorado School of Mines campus. You may visit the Earthquake Center in person to see "live" seismographs in operation; call 303-273-8500 for a free tour (advance reservations required); see http://neic.cr.usgs.gov Also in Golden is the National Landslide Information Center, 1-800-654-4966. At the Denver Federal Center (6th Ave. and Kipling, Lakewood), in addition to the Map Store where you can purchase copies of all USGS maps and publications over-the-counter (hours, 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. weekdays only), tours are available of the Core Research Center (over 1 million feet of rock drill core, 303-202-4852), National Ice Core Laboratory (glacial ice cores stored at -35° C, 303-202-4843), Rocky Mountain Mapping Center (how topographic maps are made, 303-202-4133, National Water Quality Laboratory (analyzes 350,000 water samples each year from all over the U.S., 303-236-3490). At the Core Research Center, the USGS “Rock Room” gives out free rock and mineral samples for teachers, and also loans sample kits; call Tom Michalski, 303-202-4852, or Pete Modreski, 303-202-4766. For geography and map educational information, see http://rockyweb.cr.usgs.gov/outreach/mapcatalog -------------- Original message from Lapadary@aol.com: -------------- > In a message dated 12/13/2004 9:00:59 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > jpjunk@mc.net writes: > > > Or give them a grubby native copper nugget, some ketchup, salt and an old > toothbrush and listen to the "OH, wows." This one I even passed on to the chem > teacher. > > OK, I'll bite. What do you do with them? > > Grant > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From DOMMELEN at DAL.CA Tue Dec 14 09:15:14 2004 From: DOMMELEN at DAL.CA (Ronnie Van Dommelen) Date: Tue Dec 14 09:15:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sturmanite crystals In-Reply-To: <000401c4e1ed$55b34fd0$6401a8c0@M1Garand> References: <200412140053.iBE0r8J3026714@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <003601c4e1b1$533c7ab0$4af6a5d8@rock5> <000401c4e1ed$55b34fd0$6401a8c0@M1Garand> Message-ID: <1103044514.41bf1fa2e932e@my2.dal.ca> Dan, I'm sure you'll get better responses than this one, but I'll give it a shot. It will change the formula of the material that you have. However, it would be very difficult to define a new mineral for every change in water molecules (25H2O, 24H2O, 23H2O, etc) so only the fully hydrated chemical formula is defined as a mineral. Many hydrated minerals, such as the zeolites, lose water. The most dramatic example is laumontite which turns into powder. In the past this power was informally called leonhardite (sp?) but it is not a valid mineral species. I seem to remember an exception to this rule - two valid minerals, one being a dehydrated version of the other, but I can't think of it off the top of my head, and I might be wrong there. Ronnie Van Dommelen > Thanks for the info, Rock. One more question - if the sturmanite lost it's > water content, wouldn't the changed formula then make it a different > mineral, a pseudomorph of the sturmanite? > > -dan z- > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rock Currier" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 2:48 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Sturmanite crystals > > > > Dan, your crystals at http://www.manyfacets.com/unknown.jpg certainly do > > look like sturmanite and almost certainly at one time were much more > > attractive than they are now. Sturmanite with dot 25 H2O is certainly > would > > not make a candidate for the most stable mineral in the world. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From buff1 at ptd.net Tue Dec 14 11:47:20 2004 From: buff1 at ptd.net (Dennis Buffenmyer) Date: Tue Dec 14 11:47:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sturmanite crystals In-Reply-To: <1103044514.41bf1fa2e932e@my2.dal.ca> References: <200412140053.iBE0r8J3026714@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <003601c4e1b1$533c7ab0$4af6a5d8@rock5> <000401c4e1ed$55b34fd0$6401a8c0@M1Garand> <1103044514.41bf1fa2e932e@my2.dal.ca> Message-ID: <41BF4348.9010404@ptd.net> Ronnie Van Dommelen wrote: Torbenite/Meta-Torbenite is just one of the many pairs you describe below >Dan, > >I'm sure you'll get better responses than this one, but I'll give it a shot. It >will change the formula of the material that you have. However, it would be >very difficult to define a new mineral for every change in water molecules >(25H2O, 24H2O, 23H2O, etc) so only the fully hydrated chemical formula is >defined as a mineral. Many hydrated minerals, such as the zeolites, lose >water. The most dramatic example is laumontite which turns into powder. In >the past this power was informally called leonhardite (sp?) but it is not a >valid mineral species. I seem to remember an exception to this rule - two >valid minerals, one being a dehydrated version of the other, but I can't think >of it off the top of my head, and I might be wrong there. > >Ronnie Van Dommelen > > > > From DOMMELEN at DAL.CA Tue Dec 14 12:30:48 2004 From: DOMMELEN at DAL.CA (Ronnie Van Dommelen) Date: Tue Dec 14 12:30:49 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 3D Printer Message-ID: <1103056247.41bf4d7804508@my2.dal.ca> Hi All, I just came back to my desk from getting a piece of pizza and saw a brochure for the most amazing 3D printer / prototyping machine. This is the first time I have heard of one of these machines available for commercial use (perhaps to others in larger cities this is old news!). All sorts of ideas are running through my head for waht it could be used for - atomic and crystallographic models, custom specimen stands, etc. I might be expensive - I don't know, but I thought I would let the list know in case someone finds a use for it. The website is: http://www.3dhfx.com/ (I have no affiliation. This is not an ad.) Ronnie Van Dommelen From DOMMELEN at DAL.CA Tue Dec 14 12:54:26 2004 From: DOMMELEN at DAL.CA (Ronnie Van Dommelen) Date: Tue Dec 14 12:54:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Goethite on Mars Message-ID: <1103057666.41bf5302141af@my2.dal.ca> Hi All, Another mineral discovered on Mars that indicates water... http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/newsroom/pressreleases/20041213a.html Ronnie Van Dommelen From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Dec 14 13:23:33 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Dec 14 13:23:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 3D Printer Message-ID: <121420042123.20992.41BF59D40009D5A900005200216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> That's pretty cool, Ronnie; I just looked at the "Imagineerying 3-D Solutions" website you gave. I had heard that architectural design companies use 3D printers in this way, to build up a 3-D model of buildings, etc. by putting down successive layers of paste-like material instead of ink. But I had no idea they could be this elaborate and, "dimensional". I wonder if you can program one to construct one of Escher's impossible 3-D creations! FYI, here in the lobby of our Map Sales store at the USGS in Denver (as I wrote about in my last email), we have on display a large (65" x 90") 3-D topographic model of Colorado. It was constructed (and displayed on loan to us) by a company called Clinton Systems, Inc. On their website, http://www.clintonsystems.com, along with a description of their precision/computer cut topographic models, you'll see a picture of a model of the Gusev Crater area, Mars--even in the on-screen image, it looks so realistic, you'd think it was imaged in 3-D (it's not). They make their models out of machinable plastic, cut with "high-speed router technology"--so, cutting them down, instead of building them up. The Colorado model is awesome. Its scale is 1 inch = 4.31 miles, vertical exaggeration 2:1, which gives the mountains just enough extra relief to really stand out without looking unrealistic. The contour interval is 25 feet--which for the whole state, shows incredible detail. One feature very distinctly visible on the model is a newly discovered fault scarp in the plains of eastern Colorado, the Anton fault, which is a 70-to-100-foot-high escarpment that extends for 95 miles. You can just about stand there all day, looking at detailed features in the State. I'm sorry, but I don't have any online images to point to, of this model of Colorado. I guess you'll all just have to come out here to see it. Sincerely, Pete Modreski -------------- Original message from Ronnie Van Dommelen : -------------- > Hi All, > > I just came back to my desk from getting a piece of pizza and saw a brochure for > the most amazing 3D printer / prototyping machine. This is the first time I > have heard of one of these machines available for commercial use (perhaps to > others in larger cities this is old news!). All sorts of ideas are running > through my head for waht it could be used for - atomic and crystallographic > models, custom specimen stands, etc. I might be expensive - I don't know, but > I thought I would let the list know in case someone finds a use for it. The > website is: > http://www.3dhfx.com/ > (I have no affiliation. This is not an ad.) > > Ronnie Van Dommelen > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Dec 14 14:09:19 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Dec 14 14:09:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sturmanite/Laumontite/Torbernite Message-ID: <121420042209.8242.41BF648F00047B7000002032216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Regarding these minerals... I had just done some checking, online and in mineralogy books, and I must admit that I was still a little confused as to why leonhardite is discredited as a separate mineal species and is just considered a less hydrated form of laumontite, whereas metatorbernite, metatyuyamunite, and others are still counted as separate species, so I kept reading. Zeolite minerals (such as laumontite, and the uranyl minerals behave similarly) can reversibly gain or lose some of the water molecules in their structure, to produce completely or less than completely hydrated forms. In the case of laumontite, "leonhardite" was formerly used as a name for the less hydrated from, with 7 instead of 9 water molecules per each 8 silicon and 24 oxygen atoms. However, it's been shown that this water content is totally and smoothly variable within this range, and there is no change to a distinctly different crystal structure for the less hydrated form; so, it's all considered one mineral. But for torbernite and the related uranyl minerals there is a slight difference in the crystal structure of the less hydrated forms; for example, in torbernite (12 H2O) vs. metatorbernite (8 H2O), though both are tetragonal, the former belongs to Point Group 4/m 2/m 2/m and Space Group P4/nnc, whereas metatorbernite is the slightly less symmetrical Point Group 4/m and Space Group P4/n . Zeunerite and metazeunerite, and others, are analogous (the paper cited below mentions that there are 40 such known uranyl arsenates and phosphates, including the most common, autunite and meta-autunite. So that's why the meta- forms are considered separate mineral species. Pete Modreski -------------- Original message from Dennis Buffenmyer : -------------- > Ronnie Van Dommelen wrote: > > > Torbenite/Meta-Torbenite is just one of the many pairs you describe below > > >Dan, > > > >I'm sure you'll get better responses than this one, but I'll give it a shot. > It > >will change the formula of the material that you have. However, it would be > >very difficult to define a new mineral for every change in water molecules > >(25H2O, 24H2O, 23H2O, etc) so only the fully hydrated chemical formula is > >defined as a mineral. Many hydrated minerals, such as the zeolites, lose > >water. The most dramatic example is laumontite which turns into powder. In > >the past this power was informally called leonhardite (sp?) but it is not a > >valid mineral species. I seem to remember an exception to this rule - two > >valid minerals, one being a dehydrated version of the other, but I can't think > >of it off the top of my head, and I might be wrong there. > > > >Ronnie Van Dommelen > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Dec 14 14:28:18 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Dec 14 14:28:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Torbernite, P.S. Message-ID: <121420042228.27672.41BF6901000A07B100006C18216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Oops, I forgot to list the paper I meant to give as a source for more information (for anyone interested in the technical details) about torbernite and zeunerite, by Locock and Burns, from Can. Min. v. 41, p. 489-502, 2003, the abstract is online at http://pubs.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/mineral/tcm-48941-2.html and the whole paper at, www.nd.edu/~pburns/pcb152.pdf and, two detailed papers about laumonite/leonhardite are online at, doi.wiley.com/10.1002/ange.200352364 and www.minsocam.org/MSA/AmMin/TOC/Abstracts/ 2003_Abstracts/FM03_Abstracts/Fridriksson_p277_03.pdf That's all! Pete --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jpjunk at mc.net Tue Dec 14 16:42:48 2004 From: jpjunk at mc.net (jjunkroski) Date: Tue Dec 14 16:40:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grubby copper...was: Mineral donations for schools In-Reply-To: <143.3abf1033.2eefd0dd@aol.com> Message-ID: Grant, The acid (vinegar), in the ketchup and the salt act just like commercial "copper cleaner" works on kitchen utensils. Smear the mix on a nugget and scrub with the toothbrush and you get pretty, pink, shiny as a new penny. You could also use straight vinegar, but ketchup is messier and therefore much more fun. I've done this with Cub Scouts, and it never fails to be a hit. Chem teacher loves a demonstration of a reduction reaction, with utterly safe (edible!) materials. Junk > In a message dated 12/13/2004 9:00:59 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > jpjunk@mc.net writes: > > > Or give them a grubby native copper nugget, some ketchup, salt and an old > toothbrush and listen to the "OH, wows." This one I even passed on to the chem > teacher. > > OK, I'll bite. What do you do with them? > > Grant > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Tue Dec 14 16:59:41 2004 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Tue Dec 14 16:59:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grubby copper...was: Mineral donations for schools In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41BF8C7D.6040202@xs4all.nl> Is it a reduction reaction? I always assumed that the oxide was dissolved by the aceetic acid, where upon the copper was kept in solution by a chloride complex. I might be wrong here. Acetic acid alone does not work as well and there seems not much 'oxidizable' at NaCl.... cheers, Maurice jjunkroski wrote: >Grant, > >The acid (vinegar), in the ketchup and the salt act just like commercial >"copper cleaner" works on kitchen utensils. > >Smear the mix on a nugget and scrub with the toothbrush and you get pretty, >pink, shiny as a new penny. > >You could also use straight vinegar, but ketchup is messier and therefore >much more fun. > >I've done this with Cub Scouts, and it never fails to be a hit. > >Chem teacher loves a demonstration of a reduction reaction, with utterly >safe (edible!) materials. > >Junk > > >>In a message dated 12/13/2004 9:00:59 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, >>jpjunk@mc.net writes: >> >> >>Or give them a grubby native copper nugget, some ketchup, salt and an old >>toothbrush and listen to the "OH, wows." This one I even passed on to the chem >>teacher. >> >>OK, I'll bite. What do you do with them? >> >>Grant >> >> >>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>multipart/alternative >>text/plain (text body -- kept) >>text/html >>--- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jpjunk at mc.net Tue Dec 14 18:18:56 2004 From: jpjunk at mc.net (jjunkroski) Date: Tue Dec 14 18:16:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grubby copper...was: Mineral donations for schools In-Reply-To: <41BF8C7D.6040202@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Maurice, you got me. The chemistry teacher who said that is now retired...I'll ask a couple of the new guys. I was also told that the salt acts as an abrasive. That may be wrong,too. "There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact." Mark Twain Junk on 12/14/04 6:59 PM, Maurice de Graaf at Mauricedegraaf@xs4all.nl wrote: > Is it a reduction reaction? I always assumed that the oxide was > dissolved by the aceetic acid, where upon the copper was kept in > solution by a chloride complex. I might be wrong here. Acetic acid alone > does not work as well and there seems not much 'oxidizable' at NaCl.... > > cheers, > Maurice > > jjunkroski wrote: > >> Grant, >> >> The acid (vinegar), in the ketchup and the salt act just like commercial >> "copper cleaner" works on kitchen utensils. >> >> Smear the mix on a nugget and scrub with the toothbrush and you get pretty, >> pink, shiny as a new penny. >> >> You could also use straight vinegar, but ketchup is messier and therefore >> much more fun. >> >> I've done this with Cub Scouts, and it never fails to be a hit. >> >> Chem teacher loves a demonstration of a reduction reaction, with utterly >> safe (edible!) materials. >> >> Junk >> >> >>> In a message dated 12/13/2004 9:00:59 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, >>> jpjunk@mc.net writes: >>> >>> >>> Or give them a grubby native copper nugget, some ketchup, salt and an old >>> toothbrush and listen to the "OH, wows." This one I even passed on to the >>> chem >>> teacher. >>> >>> OK, I'll bite. What do you do with them? >>> >>> Grant >>> >>> >>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>> multipart/alternative >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) >>> text/html >>> --- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >> > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Dec 14 19:45:16 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Dec 14 19:38:52 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 3D Printer References: <1103056247.41bf4d7804508@my2.dal.ca> Message-ID: <41BFB1C8.63FA@Tomaszewski.net> Ronnie, We've got a couple of these printers at work in R&D as output for some CAD software. They use them to make prototype parts direct from drawings. I've even seen one that was homemade from a modified HP inkjet printer. Neat technology. There is also an input unit for CAD now available that turns an existing object into a drawing using lasers and cameras -- a 3D scanner. And it all hooks up to a high end PC. Scan the bottom of any mineral or rock specimen (oriented the way you want to display it). Do a couple simple operations, and 'print' a custom 3D base that perfectly fits the specimen. You can even have the label anywhere on the base in raised or carved lettering. Sounds like a nice Christmas 'stocking stuffer' present any rockhound would like to find. Thanks for the link. Kreigh Ronnie Van Dommelen wrote: > > Hi All, > > I just came back to my desk from getting a piece of pizza and saw a brochure for > the most amazing 3D printer / prototyping machine. This is the first time I > have heard of one of these machines available for commercial use (perhaps to > others in larger cities this is old news!). All sorts of ideas are running > through my head for waht it could be used for - atomic and crystallographic > models, custom specimen stands, etc. I might be expensive - I don't know, but > I thought I would let the list know in case someone finds a use for it. The > website is: > http://www.3dhfx.com/ > (I have no affiliation. This is not an ad.) From morningstar at att.net Tue Dec 14 20:09:07 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Tue Dec 14 20:07:57 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 3D Printer In-Reply-To: <41BFB1C8.63FA@Tomaszewski.net> References: <1103056247.41bf4d7804508@my2.dal.ca> <41BFB1C8.63FA@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <41BFB8E3.9030409@att.net> Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > Scan the bottom of any mineral or rock specimen (oriented the way you > want to display it). Do a couple simple operations, and 'print' a custom > 3D base that perfectly fits the specimen. You can even have the label > anywhere on the base in raised or carved lettering. I'm really confused--due in large part to lack of time to adequately analyze the web page--but how does this printer turn something into a 3D solid object? Don From Lapadary at aol.com Tue Dec 14 20:12:10 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Tue Dec 14 20:12:20 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grubby copper...was: Mineral donations for schools Message-ID: <65.3aaabeb2.2ef1139a@aol.com> In a message dated 12/14/2004 4:41:13 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, jpjunk@mc.net writes: Chem teacher loves a demonstration of a reduction reaction, with utterly safe (edible!) materials. ===================== Thanks. I stopped at Radio Shack tonight and got one of those $9.99 microscopes someone on this list mentioned. The sales clerk was telling me about looking at pond water through a microscope when he was in college. He said it was full of little wiggly things. Then just when we were going out the door he said, "Oh yeah, try ketchup too." I'm not sure I want to find out that my favorite vegetable is full of living organisms. When I get done with my email I'll put a battery in that microscope, find some glass for a slide, and let you know how ketchup looks. Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Dec 14 20:24:25 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Dec 14 20:17:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sturmanite/Laumontite/Torbernite References: <121420042209.8242.41BF648F00047B7000002032216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <41BFBAEF.385D@Tomaszewski.net> pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > Regarding these minerals... > > I had just done some checking, online and in mineralogy books, and I must admit that I was still a little confused as to why leonhardite is discredited as a separate mineal species and is just considered a less hydrated form of laumontite, whereas metatorbernite, metatyuyamunite, and others are still counted as separate species, so I kept reading. > Zeolite minerals (such as laumontite, and the uranyl minerals behave similarly) can reversibly gain or lose some of the water molecules in their structure, to produce completely or less than completely hydrated forms. In the case of laumontite, "leonhardite" was formerly used as a name for the less hydrated from, with 7 instead of 9 water molecules per each 8 silicon and 24 oxygen atoms. However, it's been shown that this water content is totally and smoothly variable within this range, and there is no change to a distinctly different crystal structure for the less hydrated form; so, it's all considered one mineral. > But for torbernite and the related uranyl minerals there is a slight difference in the crystal structure of the less hydrated forms; for example, in torbernite (12 H2O) vs. metatorbernite (8 H2O), though both are tetragonal, the former belongs to Point Group 4/m 2/m 2/m and Space Group P4/nnc, whereas metatorbernite is the slightly less symmetrical Point Group 4/m and Space Group P4/n . Zeunerite and metazeunerite, and others, are analogous (the paper cited below mentions that there are 40 such known uranyl arsenates and phosphates, including the most common, autunite and meta-autunite. So that's why the meta- forms are considered separate mineral species. > Pete Modreski > Pete, You make a good point. The IMA now uses the physical/crystal structure to differentiate unique minerals. Unfortunately, they have also started mixing the formula into the name, as in Heulandite-Ca, -K, -Na, and -Sr...and many more examples (and we can probably include your meta... example{s}). I think we would all be better served if any existing minerals being split were promoted to 'group' status, and unique names (not names plus formula) be given to each of the split species comprising the new group. Heulandite Group, consisting of NameOneITE (Ca rich), NameTwoITE (K rich), NameThreeITE (Na rich), and NameFourITE (Sr rich). Besides, those able to do the work to split species ought to have traditional naming rights for their efforts, without dishonoring the rights of the original discoverer. The IMA needs to correct a wrong turn. Thanks for the reminder. Kreigh From Lapadary at aol.com Tue Dec 14 20:23:27 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Tue Dec 14 20:23:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Greetings from the future Message-ID: <1e1.31754b3e.2ef1163f@aol.com> In a message dated 12/14/2004 2:14:22 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, rockcurrier@cs.com writes: All agate lickers have been banished to the Artic regions until they see the light. Just thought I would give you a glimpse of the future. I hope the authorities don't find out. Rock, The last time I was up that way I saw a few agates, a bunch of fuzzy dogs, and piles of yellow snow. I advise the agate lickers to carry a spray bottle full of Perrier. Grant Johnston, Chico, CA --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Dec 14 20:48:26 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Dec 14 20:41:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 3D Printer References: <1103056247.41bf4d7804508@my2.dal.ca> <41BFB1C8.63FA@Tomaszewski.net> <41BFB8E3.9030409@att.net> Message-ID: <41BFC08E.3682@Tomaszewski.net> Don H wrote: > > Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > Scan the bottom of any mineral or rock specimen (oriented the way you > > want to display it). Do a couple simple operations, and 'print' a custom > > 3D base that perfectly fits the specimen. You can even have the label > > anywhere on the base in raised or carved lettering. > > I'm really confused--due in large part to lack of time to adequately > analyze the web page--but how does this printer turn something into a 3D > solid object? > > Don It lays down successive layers of 'black' ink that a UV light hardens on contact with the 'paper' (the 'color' inks give support but don't harden, and are later 'washed' away). The 'paper' is a platform that moves past the print head (or a print head that moves past the 'paper'), and then steps 'down' for the next layer. Some don't have 'color' inks, but are limited in overhang. From hptdesigns at charter.net Tue Dec 14 22:26:21 2004 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Tue Dec 14 22:21:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 3D Printer In-Reply-To: <41BFB8E3.9030409@att.net> Message-ID: <3k786n$jq59or@mxip14a.cluster1.charter.net> They essentially lay down a thickness of material just like building up a contour map. For example, say you want the printer to create a copy of a mountain and valley. Each coordinate x,y, and z is a unique point. X and y define the plane, and the z is the thickness of the "ink" which in this case is some kind of plastic material. Its kind of like the opposite of milling a part in that with milling you take away what you do not want, while with this process, you just build up that which you do want. The thickness of each layer determines resolution or accuracy of the model. I think I remember reading that its about 1000 layers per inch, so the vertical accuracy would be 1/1000 of and inch and the printer would then have to have 1000 print cycles to creat a model 1" high. An 3d autocad file will create the necessary 3d map of the object and each point that needs to be printed or left unprinted. Tom's idea is really a kewl idea, and I had thought of it using my engraving machine to essentially do the same thing. Scan the bottom of the specimen in 3D and then send the file to a 3d engraving (or milling machine) and rout out a negative of the scan out of a block of material such as acrylic such that you would crate a perfect custom "hole" in which the specimen would fit. With my machine it is of course the opposite of printing in that it routs out all that you want gone from the block, leaving the custom hole, whereas in 3d printing it builds up the block but just does not print the hole. I had all intentions of doing this with my machine to create neat custom stands, but money ran out and never bought the 3d scanner. And for small stuff they are really relatively inexpensive--less than $1000. My machine is an inxexpensive one as they go and can only do things abut 2" high but can do all kinds of reliefs, jewelery stuff, etc. Almost all jewelery molds now days are done this way along with millions of other parts. I have used my machine to create contoured LEGO bricks and small contour maps with reliefs up to 1". But just have not had time to play with it as much as I would like. If you want to see what I do with it go to www.brickengraver.com (along with making labels for minerals). But if you really want to see what is the future today go to http://www.emachineshop.com/ You can download their software free, design your part, submit it, they will automatically analyze it, give you a price to produce it, mill it, engrave it, 3d print it, or however you want it, and the send it to you. This concept really is going to put local custom machine parts out of business. I you wanted to you could actually design your own gun and all its parts and have them automatically machine them to 1/10000 inch toleraces or better. Lord the possibilities for this technology for the backyard inventer are limitless. I you can make a model of it or design a model of it on the computer, they can machine it. What now usually takes weeks to get created is now done in days or hours.I predict in 20 years that practically everything will be machined this way. In fact, I bet it will almost evolve into something almost as good as a Startrek Transporter. You have a machine at home or work, go to an online store, buy the file, download it to your machine, and it creates the product for you. No shipping. For more complicated stuff, you go to the local kinkos which will have the super machine to make much more complex objects. This concept would be abosolutely possible for something as simple as a custom mineral stand right now. Tommy Armstrong "Creativity is the marvelous capacity to grasp distinct realities and draw a spark from their juxtaposition." Max Ernst > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Don H > Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 11:09 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 3D Printer > > Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > Scan the bottom of any mineral or rock specimen (oriented > the way you > > want to display it). Do a couple simple operations, and 'print' a > > custom 3D base that perfectly fits the specimen. You can > even have the > > label anywhere on the base in raised or carved lettering. > > I'm really confused--due in large part to lack of time to > adequately analyze the web page--but how does this printer > turn something into a 3D solid object? > > Don > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From hptdesigns at charter.net Tue Dec 14 22:41:51 2004 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Tue Dec 14 22:37:00 2004 Subject: AD: Flagrant Advertisement-- RE: [Rockhounds] 3D Printer In-Reply-To: <41BFC08E.3682@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <3k77vd$eg1huf@mxip10a.cluster1.charter.net> By the way, if any of yall would like custom engraved labels out of a variety of minerals such as acrylic, wood, brass, etc., email me at tfa@brickengraver.com. I am also in the process of coming up with custom stands made of veneered LEGO bricks--150 woods available. And I Garanteeee that I am the only one in the world that does this. Modular stands- different woods for different classes--don't laugh--I am going to figure out how to make something classy. Actually engraved LEGO bricks make very good labels in that they require no stand and sit up on their own. And they have a part that hides the studs so you never know it a brick. Great for case displays. Tommy > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Kreigh Tomaszewski > Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 11:48 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 3D Printer > > Don H wrote: > > > > Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > > > Scan the bottom of any mineral or rock specimen (oriented the way > > > you want to display it). Do a couple simple operations, > and 'print' > > > a custom 3D base that perfectly fits the specimen. You > can even have > > > the label anywhere on the base in raised or carved lettering. > > > > I'm really confused--due in large part to lack of time to > adequately > > analyze the web page--but how does this printer turn > something into a > > 3D solid object? > > > > Don > > It lays down successive layers of 'black' ink that a UV light > hardens on contact with the 'paper' (the 'color' inks give > support but don't harden, and are later 'washed' away). The > 'paper' is a platform that moves past the print head (or a > print head that moves past the 'paper'), and then steps > 'down' for the next layer. Some don't have 'color' inks, but > are limited in overhang. > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockcurrier at cs.com Wed Dec 15 01:14:38 2004 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Wed Dec 15 01:13:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Alterered sturmanite References: <200412150201.iBF21ppo019273@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <01e801c4e286$81b95b80$4af6a5d8@rock5> Dan, You are of course correct when a mineral alters it becomes another mineral even if there is not a name established for it. Mother nature does not care for names. In the case of sturmanite probably the part of the mineral nearest the surface alters first and probably sequentially in several steps and the core of the crystal remains intact, at least for a while. So what you appear to have is the same crystal but repersenting god knows how many minerlas. The same would also be true with torbernite altering to metatorbernite. At what point does it shift from one mineral species to another. The examples of this gradual alteration of minerals are not small. Rock From LarryRush at worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 15 07:25:13 2004 From: LarryRush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Wed Dec 15 07:25:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral donations for schools References: Message-ID: <000a01c4e2ba$6386f580$e48b4c0c@fekib> Well, let's try this again...........the responses here were great and the efforts and enthusiasm commendable, BUT......I got only one offer to have a name posted as a volunteer donor. Those people who wrote about their experiences have done a super job in their home towns, but what about those towns and cities where there are few collectors to offer their surplus material (including fossils, too, I should add!). My suggestion is for all schools, whereby the teacher might contact one of us via e-mail to arrange a donation without a personal visit and pep talk. Please rethink about your contributions, and if you have something to offer, send me your name and e-mail address, so this thing has a chance to get off the ground (no pun intended!) Larry Rush ----- Original Message ----- From: jjunkroski To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 12:02 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mineral donations for schools on 12/13/04 10:59 AM, Lawrence Rush at LarryRush@worldnet.att.net wrote: > A few weeks ago, someone on the list suggested that mineral donors and science > teachers should get together in order to make specimens available to kids for --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Wed Dec 15 09:15:08 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Wed Dec 15 09:15:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 3D Printer Message-ID: <121520041715.16895.41C0711C0007E4F9000041FF216037596407059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Don, It uses the same technology that the Replicator on Star Trek does, to create a steaming hot cup of Earl Grey tea for Capt. Kirk. Glad I could help answer that, Pete -------------- Original message from Don H : -------------- > I'm really confused--due in large part to lack of time to adequately > analyze the web page--but how does this printer turn something into a 3D > solid object? > > Don --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From morningstar at att.net Wed Dec 15 09:22:18 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Wed Dec 15 09:22:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 3D Printer Message-ID: <121520041722.23747.41C072CA000834F500005CC321603759649D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: pjmodreski@att.net > Don, > > It uses the same technology that the Replicator on Star Trek does, to create a > steaming hot cup of Earl Grey tea for Capt. Kirk. Um, yeah, Captain Picard drank the Earl Grey. I only remember Kirk with coffee--I couldn't see Kirk sipping tea. Tea is too genteel. Kirk kicked ass. Anyway, on a more serious note, some of us are involved in an off-list discussion. While this concept does have applications to mineral collecting in many ways, it is likely considered off-topic by the majority of members and could go on for a while. If you want to join the off-list conversation, please let me or Ronnie or Tommy or Kreigh know, and we'll add you to the list. Don From afox at drizzle.com Wed Dec 15 09:25:15 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Wed Dec 15 09:25:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 3D Printer In-Reply-To: <121520041715.16895.41C0711C0007E4F9000041FF216037596407059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: Actually, there are devices like this. We have one at PSU in the Engineering Department, called a 'rapid prototyper'. I'm unsure as to whether it's a polymer spray or not (I thought the old ones were cornstarch based). Some examples: http://www.cim.mcgill.ca/~arlweb/rapidprototyper.html http://www.coe.montana.edu/ie/facility/cimlab/Rapid%20Prototyper.htm http://www.denford.co.uk/thermojet.htm Oh, and it was Cpt. Picard who enjoyed Earl Grey. I thought that Kirk drank some Romulan alcohol that McCoy smuggled in, but I could be wrong. a. > Don, > > It uses the same technology that the Replicator on Star Trek does, to create a steaming hot cup of Earl Grey tea for Capt. Kirk. > > Glad I could help answer that, > > Pete > > -------------- Original message from Don H : -------------- > > > I'm really confused--due in large part to lack of time to adequately > > analyze the web page--but how does this printer turn something into a 3D > > solid object? > > > > Don > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From kahako at aloha.net Wed Dec 15 10:04:59 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Dec 15 09:35:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: off-list discussion In-Reply-To: <121520041722.23747.41C072CA000834F500005CC321603759649D0E9 B9C090207029D0103@att.net> References: <121520041722.23747.41C072CA000834F500005CC321603759649D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041215080346.03acb500@mail.aloha.net> Can you give us a hint as to the subject matter? Aloha, Kitty At 07:22 AM 12/15/2004, you wrote: >Anyway, on a more serious note, some of us are involved in an off-list >discussion. While this concept does have applications to mineral >collecting in many ways, it is likely considered off-topic by the majority >of members and could go on for a while. If you want to join the off-list >conversation, please let me or Ronnie or Tommy or Kreigh know, and we'll >add you to the list. > >Don -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.5.3 - Release Date: 12/14/2004 From morningstar at att.net Wed Dec 15 09:40:10 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Wed Dec 15 09:40:15 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: off-list discussion Message-ID: <121520041740.11469.41C076F90000E0CC00002CCD21603759649D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Kitty & Bill Heacox > Can you give us a hint as to the subject matter? > > Aloha, Kitty Oh--the 3D printer, making small parts, materials used, and virtual machine shops. Don From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Dec 15 10:21:55 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Dec 15 10:21:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 3D Printer In-Reply-To: <121520041722.23747.41C072CA000834F500005CC321603759649D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: >If you want to join the off-list conversation, please let me or Ronnie or Tommy or Kreigh know, and we'll add you to the >>list. Yes, please do. Axel From kahako at aloha.net Wed Dec 15 11:08:35 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Dec 15 10:38:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT Hawaii news Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041215085808.03acb860@mail.aloha.net> Just for the heck of it, here's some non-rockhound news items from Hawaii. 1. Swell on north and west shores of all Hawaiian islands is creating waves 35 to 50 feet tall. 2. The entire state is out of real Christmas trees. They are brought in via refrigerated containers on ships that take 4 to 6 weeks to get here from the Pacific NW, so when they're sold out, there ain't no more. Now there's a run on artificial trees. 3. There's snow on Mauna Kea and Mauna Loa, and lava is still going into the ocean (OK, that's on topic). Aloha, Kitty -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.5.4 - Release Date: 12/15/2004 From Lapadary at aol.com Wed Dec 15 13:03:37 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Wed Dec 15 13:03:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Alterered sturmanite Message-ID: <13c.8abfb9d.2ef200a9@aol.com> In a message dated 12/15/2004 1:14:43 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, rockcurrier@cs.com writes: Dan, You are of course correct when a mineral alters it becomes another mineral even if there is not a name established for it. Mother nature does not care for names. I'm glad to hear that. Now if we could just convince those people who add resin and dye to turquoise to stop calling it turquoise. My wife bought a bracelet from a person on the Navajo reservation and had blue stains on her arm before we got to Flagstaff. Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Dec 15 20:35:30 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Dec 15 20:25:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral donations for schools References: <000a01c4e2ba$6386f580$e48b4c0c@fekib> Message-ID: <41C10E3F.7921@Tomaszewski.net> Larry, Most of my excess specimens end up going to local needs. But if you have specific (verified) requests I would appreciate being included in the (offline) cc: as I expect to be able contribute at least a few times annually. Kreigh Lawrence Rush wrote: > > Well, let's try this again...........the responses here were great and the efforts and enthusiasm commendable, BUT......I got only one offer to have a name posted as a volunteer donor. Those people who wrote about their experiences have done a super job in their home towns, but what about those towns and cities where there are few collectors to offer their surplus material (including fossils, too, I should add!). My suggestion is for all schools, whereby the teacher might contact one of us via e > > Please rethink about your contributions, and if you have something to offer, send me your name and e-mail address, so this thing has a chance to get off the ground (no pun intended!) > > Larry Rush > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jjunkroski > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 12:02 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mineral donations for schools > > on 12/13/04 10:59 AM, Lawrence Rush at LarryRush@worldnet.att.net wrote: > > > A few weeks ago, someone on the list suggested that mineral donors and science > > teachers should get together in order to make specimens available to kids for From tam2819 at cox.net Wed Dec 15 20:33:14 2004 From: tam2819 at cox.net (T.A.Masters) Date: Wed Dec 15 20:33:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT Hawaii news References: <6.1.2.0.0.20041215085808.03acb860@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <41C1100A.3090000@cox.net> Kitty, Saw those waves on local TV news tonight. Hear in the morning they will be even higher. Wowee. Terrie From TomE61 at aol.com Wed Dec 15 21:02:25 2004 From: TomE61 at aol.com (TomE61@aol.com) Date: Wed Dec 15 21:02:33 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 3-D Printer Message-ID: <15d.463c17de.2ef270e1@aol.com> So, at last, something I can definitively chime in on. Most of my entire career (25+ years) has been involved in some sort of executive management of, or hands on management of, printing: legal, financial, commercial, gravure, 4-color, 6-color, laser printing, on-demand printing, color laser printing, etc. And I can state, most unequivocably, that there is NO such thing as a 3-D printer. There may be devices that produce 3-D prototypes, but a printer is NOT one of them. Consider the following: A picture of a beautiful specimen is what we call a 2 x 2. The actual beautiful specimen is what we call a 3 x 3. The difference: The first is only a flat representation, that you can VISUALIZE. The second is the real thing, that you can TOUCH AND FEEL. It has depth in addition to length and width. >From the days of Heidelberg in the Middle Ages, to the new IPOD type hand-held printers, the only thing these devices WILL DO is to replicate an image you have created using SOME OTHER medium......in other words, the printer is just one of the means to an end. IF YOU DOUBT what I say, then I suggest you stop right now and do a search on Michealangelo or Rafael or any Renaissance Italian painter to see exactly how 2-dimension creativity is rendered into 3-dimension so-called reality. The force behind ANY printer is the software that creates, edits or enhances the image. It is THIS software which ultimately controls the final product. Again, the printer is ONLY accepting instructions on how to render the product you created. If you created a "3-D" picture, then most available and current printers (color or B/W) should be able to render it, as you intended. However, NO printer will, on its own, correct, fix or enchance whatever shortcomings your original picture had. The software does that. And if the manufacturer claims that the printer "DOES" that, its only because the printer is utilziing secondary software to augment the original program that you used. Admittedly, I didn't read ALL of the threads associated with this topic, but when I saw the heading, I decided that I had to say something to prevent anyone from falling into the trap of buying yet one another product that promises more than it delivers. There are hundreds of high quality, low cost printers out there that will give you an excellent rendering of your image (s). Lexmark and HP come to mind. Any of the printers which accept your digital camera chip and print off high quality pictures is also a good choice. However, if you want a 3-D rendering, try buying the old fashioned "Etch-O-Sketch" instead. Regards, Tom Russell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From hptdesigns at charter.net Wed Dec 15 22:34:29 2004 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Wed Dec 15 22:29:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 3-D Printer In-Reply-To: <15d.463c17de.2ef270e1@aol.com> Message-ID: <3k70ii$jbpe4u@mxip18a.cluster1.charter.net> I think that why they call them printers is the fact that they in essence do print to a two dimensional plane (except for the thickness of the "ink". ) And in fact, the way I understand it, the software is essentially the same as traditional software in that it prints xy coordinates. The z coordinate is simpley the thickness of the paint. Its like when you were in geography class and had to build a contour map. The bottom layer was a sheet of matt board cut to the contour of say sea level. The next piece was cut to the contour of the 10 foot elevation and then put on top of the first one. The third was the elevation of th 20 foot level. And so on. The software controling the "3d" printer slices the 3d object into a number of horizontal planes. The number of planes (or printings) necessary is the height of the object divided by the thickness of the "ink". But the printer head has to either move up that thickness for the next print or the bed that held the printed object would have to go down the thickness of the "ink". So either the bed or the head has to have a z axis control motor. I remember in design school that we used to use silkscreening to create contours. You would simply continue to silkscreen the same screen until you got enough layers of ink to create a contoured surface. Then you would change screens so that the only thing printed with that screen was on top of the origingal design. Gave the surface depth. To be truthful, you are not really printing the object, you are printing a bunch of slices of the object on top of each other. It is true that they might should have come up with a different name for it but I think it evolved from printer technolgy rather than milling technology and so some guy just decided to name it a 3d printer. tommy > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > TomE61@aol.com > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 12:02 AM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] 3-D Printer > > > So, at last, something I can definitively chime in on. > > Most of my entire career (25+ years) has been involved in > some sort of executive management of, or hands on management > of, printing: legal, financial, commercial, gravure, > 4-color, 6-color, laser printing, on-demand printing, color > laser printing, etc. > > And I can state, most unequivocably, that there is NO such > thing as a 3-D printer. There may be devices that produce > 3-D prototypes, but a printer is NOT one of them. > > Consider the following: > > A picture of a beautiful specimen is what we call a 2 x 2. > > The actual beautiful specimen is what we call a 3 x 3. > > The difference: The first is only a flat representation, > that you can VISUALIZE. The second is the real thing, that > you can TOUCH AND FEEL. It has depth in addition to length and width. > > >From the days of Heidelberg in the Middle Ages, to the new IPOD type > hand-held printers, the only thing these devices WILL DO is > to replicate an image you have created using SOME OTHER > medium......in other words, the printer is just one of the > means to an end. > > IF YOU DOUBT what I say, then I suggest you stop right now > and do a search on Michealangelo or Rafael or any Renaissance > Italian painter to see exactly how 2-dimension creativity is > rendered into 3-dimension so-called reality. > > The force behind ANY printer is the software that creates, > edits or enhances the image. It is THIS software which > ultimately controls the final product. > Again, the printer is ONLY accepting instructions on how to > render the product you created. > > If you created a "3-D" picture, then most available and > current printers (color or B/W) should be able to render it, > as you intended. However, NO printer will, on its own, > correct, fix or enchance whatever shortcomings your original > picture had. The software does that. And if the > manufacturer claims that the printer "DOES" that, its only > because the printer is utilziing secondary software to > augment the original program that you used. > > Admittedly, I didn't read ALL of the threads associated with > this topic, but when I saw the heading, I decided that I had > to say something to prevent anyone from falling into the trap > of buying yet one another product that promises more than it delivers. > > There are hundreds of high quality, low cost printers out > there that will give you an excellent rendering of your image > (s). Lexmark and HP come to mind. > Any of the printers which accept your digital camera chip and > print off high quality pictures is also a good choice. > > However, if you want a 3-D rendering, try buying the old > fashioned "Etch-O-Sketch" instead. > > Regards, > Tom Russell > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Thu Dec 16 03:19:13 2004 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Thu Dec 16 03:19:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral donations for schools Message-ID: Just as a thought here for mineral donations (fossils too). Many schools have specific curriculum requirements for different grade groups, i.e. they must teach specific concepts. I got a chance to see such a list of proficiency reqirements a few years ago when I worked with a middle school science superintendent to develop a lesson plan built to match the grade needs and teach other concepts. In my case it was done with fossils. In addition we helped the youngsters hone their research skills by giving them a few web sites that provided information on identification and classification of fossils from the specific locality source of the fossils. The point is that not all rocks, though they may be interesting specimens to us, would be of interest to a school. On the other hand what may appear to be pretty ordinary specimens could fit nicely into the schools needs. In addition you can stimulate the need for what you have by helping to develop an appropriate lesson plan around the material you can supply. All you need to do is develop a relationship with a teacher or administrator and begin a dialogue. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Thu Dec 16 06:29:48 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Dec 16 06:30:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A Really Neat New (and old) magazine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200412161429.iBGETvrI010081@bubbleator.drizzle.com> While not exactly a "rockhound" resource, there is a wonderful new magazine Out There for all hard-core science geeks. It's the successor to the magazine of the Fermilab Accelerator Site and it's called "Symmetry". Here's the web site: http://www.symmetrymagazine.org The magazine is joint venture between Fermilab and the Stanford Accelerator site. Neat, NEAT, N-E-A-T! GcB From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Thu Dec 16 06:46:25 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Thu Dec 16 06:37:41 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT Hawaii news References: <6.1.2.0.0.20041215085808.03acb860@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <005001c4e37e$05f14960$9aa5490c@pete> Kitty, re. the shortage of real Xmas trees in Hawaii---though of course, an evergreen Xmas tree in Hawaii does seem a bit out of place; I'm sure that the proportion of people who have them, must be the smallest in the U.S.!--- but here's an interesting substitute. We have in our house (have I ever mentioned this to the List before?), the dried fallen stalk of a century plant (agave), that we brought back from the AZ/NM border area several years ago. We spray-painted it gold, and put it in a small Xmas tree stands and it sits in corner of the living room (along with some southwestern art and a couple of ristras of red chiles from New Mexico) all year long, and gets decorated with whatever are the seasonal themes (i.e., hearts around Valentine's Day... Halloweeny stuff around Halloween, etc.), and Christmas things at Christmas. It's about 7 feet tall. It wasn't an absolutely original idea--we first saw one decorated at a rock shop some friends had in Silver City, NM. We do have a real Christmas tree too--but the century plant is a nice addition! Merry Christmas Season to all, Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:08 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] OT Hawaii news > Just for the heck of it, here's some non-rockhound news items from Hawaii. > > 1. Swell on north and west shores of all Hawaiian islands is creating > waves 35 to 50 feet tall. > > 2. The entire state is out of real Christmas trees. They are brought in > via refrigerated containers on ships that take 4 to 6 weeks to get here > from the Pacific NW, so when they're sold out, there ain't no more. Now > there's a run on artificial trees. > > 3. There's snow on Mauna Kea and Mauna Loa, and lava is still going into > the ocean (OK, that's on topic). > > Aloha, Kitty > From tam2819 at cox.net Thu Dec 16 07:41:56 2004 From: tam2819 at cox.net (T.A.Masters) Date: Thu Dec 16 07:41:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT Hawaii news References: <6.1.2.0.0.20041215085808.03acb860@mail.aloha.net> <005001c4e37e$05f14960$9aa5490c@pete> Message-ID: <41C1ACC4.7050307@cox.net> Pete, Fun. Another gift of nature. Tumble weed. Get a nice big round ball of it. Spray paint and decorate appropriately. I have seen these used as Hanukkah Bushes, sprayed blue and silver. Looked wonderful. We have a forecast of our Santana Winds and 80 degrees for the next couple of days. Should be lots of tumbleweed balls around. I may just find one and decorate it for outside the house if I can figure out how to anchor it down. Can you imagine a glittering tinseled ball tumbling down the street? Terrie From shm at tapnet.net Thu Dec 16 10:22:08 2004 From: shm at tapnet.net (SHM) Date: Thu Dec 16 10:22:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Greetings from the future In-Reply-To: <010001f8740e$4c28d840$4af6a5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <010301c4e39c$27efd950$c6e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Oooooh, where does that leave those of us who occasionally collect fluorescent minerals? One well-known collector on the national scene ranked the three lowest forms of collecting thusly: Agates Fluorescent minerals River rocks Now THAT's status! Cheers- Earl V. From jaszczak at mtu.edu Thu Dec 16 10:43:55 2004 From: jaszczak at mtu.edu (John Jaszczak) Date: Thu Dec 16 10:44:06 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Greetings from the future In-Reply-To: <010301c4e39c$27efd950$c6e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> References: <010001f8740e$4c28d840$4af6a5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20041216134337.01134980@email.mtu.edu> And graphite collecting didn't even make the list! John At 01:22 PM 12/16/2004 -0500, you wrote: >the light. Just thought I would give you a glimpse of the future. I hope the >authorities don't find out. >Rock > > >Oooooh, where does that leave those of us who occasionally collect >fluorescent minerals? One well-known collector on the national scene ranked >the three lowest forms of collecting thusly: > Agates > Fluorescent minerals > River rocks > >Now THAT's status! > > Cheers- Earl V. > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From morningstar at att.net Thu Dec 16 11:09:19 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Thu Dec 16 11:09:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Greetings from the future Message-ID: <121620041909.10058.41C1DD5E000EFBCD0000274A21603760219D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: John Jaszczak > And graphite collecting didn't even make the list! And graphite with spiral growth patterns--who would imagine such a thing!!! That would be even worse! Don From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Dec 16 17:43:25 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Dec 16 17:30:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Greetings from the future References: <010001f8740e$4c28d840$4af6a5d8@rock5> <5.2.1.1.0.20041216134337.01134980@email.mtu.edu> Message-ID: <41C236B8.3E43@Tomaszewski.net> Graphite collecting DID make the list -- it was written in pencil. John Jaszczak wrote: > > And graphite collecting didn't even make the list! > > John > > At 01:22 PM 12/16/2004 -0500, you wrote: > > > >the light. Just thought I would give you a glimpse of the future. I hope the > >authorities don't find out. > >Rock > > > > >Oooooh, where does that leave those of us who occasionally collect > >fluorescent minerals? One well-known collector on the national scene ranked > >the three lowest forms of collecting thusly: > > Agates > > Fluorescent minerals > > River rocks > > > >Now THAT's status! > > > > Cheers- Earl V. From silicawood at gmail.com Thu Dec 16 19:47:19 2004 From: silicawood at gmail.com (brian doll) Date: Thu Dec 16 19:47:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral donations for schools In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <54d4a88f041216194766dff5aa@mail.gmail.com> Any teachers or schools here in Washington (Pierce county) are welcome to come dig through my petrified wood pile - most children are interested in colorful agatized wood. Brian On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 06:19:13 EST, FOSSILNUT@aol.com wrote: > Just as a thought here for mineral donations (fossils too). Many schools have > specific curriculum requirements for different grade groups, i.e. they must > teach specific concepts. I got a chance to see such a list of proficiency > reqirements a few years ago when I worked with a middle school science > superintendent to develop a lesson plan built to match the grade needs and teach other > concepts. In my case it was done with fossils. In addition we helped the > youngsters hone their research skills by giving them a few web sites that provided > information on identification and classification of fossils from the specific > locality source of the fossils. > > The point is that not all rocks, though they may be interesting specimens to > us, would be of interest to a school. On the other hand what may appear to be > pretty ordinary specimens could fit nicely into the schools needs. In addition > you can stimulate the need for what you have by helping to develop an > appropriate lesson plan around the material you can supply. All you need to do is > develop a relationship with a teacher or administrator and begin a dialogue. > > Gene Hartstein > Newark, DE > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From tim at orerockon.com Fri Dec 17 08:42:00 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Dec 17 08:42:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 3-D Printer In-Reply-To: <15d.463c17de.2ef270e1@aol.com> References: <15d.463c17de.2ef270e1@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041217083948.02586be0@mail.spiritone.com> I suggest you Google "3D printer". I did and this was at the first hit: ZPrinter 310 System The ZPrinter 310 System creates physical models directly from digital data in hours instead of days. The System is fast, versatile and simple, allowing engineers to produce a range of concept models and functional test parts quickly and inexpensively. The system is ideal for an office environment or educational institution, providing product developers easy access to a 3D Printer. The ZPrinter 310 System's sleek design and straightforward user interface make it the ideal entry-level rapid prototyping system. In addition, the versatility of the machine allows users to make parts quickly for early concept evaluation and testing, painted parts for a finished look, or patterns for casting applications. At 09:02 PM 12/15/2004, you wrote: >And I can state, most unequivocably, that there is NO such thing as a 3-D >printer. There may be devices that produce 3-D prototypes, but a printer >is NOT >one of them. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From morningstar at att.net Fri Dec 17 09:09:22 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Fri Dec 17 09:09:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 3-D Printer Message-ID: <121720041709.18468.41C312C20001F27F0000482421587667559D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> That really is incredible. The higher-end models are even more impressive. Now $25,000 for the base model is a lot, but for a manufacturing business, that isn't so bad. Or, even better, you can send your properly formatted drawings to a service that owns one of thse printers and will make the model for you, and you are much better off! Now all you need is a 3D scanner to go with it. . . . http://www.simple3d.com/ Don From afox at drizzle.com Fri Dec 17 09:35:39 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Fri Dec 17 09:35:41 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 3-D Printer In-Reply-To: <121720041709.18468.41C312C20001F27F0000482421587667559D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: Hey all, It's time for the 3-d printer conversation to migrate off list or to stop, please. A few folks have gently complained via private email that it's getting a bit off topic. Thanks! a. -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From Lapadary at aol.com Fri Dec 17 17:31:24 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Fri Dec 17 17:31:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] european coin? Message-ID: <9.39a95a5e.2ef4e26c@aol.com> Hello, I found a very plain looking silvery coin, with a mans profile on the front and on the back it has something like a coat-of-arms with Belgie on the top, 1977 on the bottom, 10 on the left of the coat-of-arms, and F on the right of the coat-of-arms. Is this from Belgium? I know most of those European coins were replaced by Euros. I was going to give this one to my grandson but I decided I should find out for sure what it is -- because I know he will ask. Oh, just to stay on topic, I accidentally dropped the coin and found it laying beside a piece of green and red Maury Mountain agate. Merry Christmas rockhounds and thanks for another year of exciting rhetoric, arguments, directions, and information. Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From TomE61 at aol.com Fri Dec 17 17:59:12 2004 From: TomE61 at aol.com (TomE61@aol.com) Date: Fri Dec 17 17:59:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: 3D Printer Comments Revisited Message-ID: <89.1c6cf9a8.2ef4e8f0@aol.com> Since I posted my thread about 3D printers, I have received several responses (and I see some responses online) that helped educate me a little further. While I still think that the name "3D printer" is an ill-advised use of the term, there's no doubt in my mind that this technology is and will become the latest tool in our arsenal of graphic representations. I spoke to my friends (husband and wife) who are both accomplished architects for the City of New York, and they actually "pooh-poohed" the use of the term 3D. They preferred the name "prototype rendering device." Joanna, the wife, told me that she can't wait for the device to help create the perfect man and/or husband (OH WELL, I guess that's the subject of another thread Yes, it is Belgian. Ann Craven ---- From: Lapadary@aol.com I found a very plain looking silvery coin, with a mans profile on the front and on the back it has something like a coat-of-arms with Belgie on the top, 1977 on the bottom, 10 on the left of the coat-of-arms, and F on the right of the coat-of-arms. Is this from Belgium? I know most of those European coins were replaced by Euros. I was going to give this one to my grandson but I decided I should find out for sure what it is -- because I know he will ask. From TomE61 at aol.com Fri Dec 17 18:35:09 2004 From: TomE61 at aol.com (TomE61@aol.com) Date: Fri Dec 17 18:35:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Retiring a Topic -- 3D Printers Message-ID: Aaron, I appreciate your input and won't (except for this one) post ANY MORE threads about 3D printers. In actuality, several members have aleady e-mailed me off list, with some GREAT suggestions, and I do find this particular topic very interesting. BUT, I am curious.....at what point do certain postings become "off-topic"? Perhaps you can resend me or just post the guidelines or direct me to those guidelines which govern suitable postings. The site guidelines aren't specific enough, in my opinion. I have gone through virtually ALL of the Rockhound archives and I can truthfully say that I found many many threads which I felt were off-topic. For example, the spider discussion still terrifies me, to say the least. But that is more than likely a personal thing. When I encounter topics, with each daily posting, that either don't interest me or I don't feel are pertinent to rockhounding, I don't read them. I just pass over them. Should I, instead, send you a private e-mail to express my disinterest? I know for a fact that several members who are dealers or promoters and who are looking for ways to jazz up their catalogs or even produce some collateral material for shows and exhibits, would be VERY interested in this new technology. Based on the price tag, and obvious lack of profitable return, it might be several years before they incorporate it, but its still a good topic to put out there. And I also know that museums and other institutions would be very very interested in at least knowing about the newest techology, and YOUR site, in my opinion, is one of the better forums for exchanging ideas about ANY new technology that supports rockhounding. Aaron, I think you do a great job of administering this site (the postings appear EVERY day, as promised) and absent any clearly defined defamation, you don't resort to any sort of arbitrary censorship. So, if its not too much trouble, perhaps you can help us ALL by letting us know what should be an extended discussion or what should possibly die a natural death. AND, I do sincerely hope that you enjoy your holidays, safely and happily and I will certainly understand if you don't post every day during that time period. GO ENJOY YOURSELF ! Happy holidays, Tom Russell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jmonroe at sisna.com Fri Dec 17 20:47:57 2004 From: jmonroe at sisna.com (Jed and Abby) Date: Fri Dec 17 20:48:06 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chicken Track Jasper Message-ID: <004901c4e4bc$bfb82f00$4a0bbed8@jedscl07h66gyy> I would like to buy about 10 to 15 lbs of chicken track jasper from the mcdermitt area of nevada. I only want material with blue sky. If you have some to sell, you are welcome to send information to my personal e-mail account. Thank you, Jed --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From hptdesigns at charter.net Fri Dec 17 21:48:00 2004 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Fri Dec 17 21:42:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Off Topic ???????? In-Reply-To: <004901c4e4bc$bfb82f00$4a0bbed8@jedscl07h66gyy> Message-ID: <3khj62$jlfq4m@mxip13a.cluster1.charter.net> Aaron Wrote: Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 3-D Printer To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hey all, It's time for the 3-d printer conversation to migrate off list or to stop, please. A few folks have gently complained via private email that it's getting a bit off topic. "So what?" Bandwidth is not a problem now as it was years ago. Hardrive space isn't either. Now I can understand that if it was about religion or politics. If a list member cannot hit his delete button or skip a message because it is in his opinion "a bit off topic" well then I will be glad to instruct him or her how to accomplish it. I do it everytime I get mail from this list and never complain about all those topics that do not interest me. Because every once in a while there is a morsel to be savored. The heading that is in the To line states: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors The object of the preposition "for" is collectors--ie people. Now if three or four collectors decide that the topic is worth discussing, I see no harm to the other 1000 or so that does not want to participate. What exactly are the guidelines. The object of the preposition "for" is collectors--ie people. Now if three or four collectors decide that the topic is worth discussing, I see no harm to the other 500 or so that does not want to participate. What exactly are the guidelines. I guess I have missed out on the whole concept of this list. I thought that it was a place for people with interests in minerals and gems to get together to discuss things. Do they have to discuss mineral and gems? What happens when that discussion leads to another topic. Isn't that what human conversation is all about. Isn't that the way that people expand their vision? What difference does it make that a subject like 3d printing came up during a post and that evolved into a new thread--maybe not directly related to rocks and minerals but obviously of enough interest to rock and gem collectors to keep it going. Threads die when no one else wants to say anything. It is true that I have noticed very little humor on this list--is that off topic only? Gimme a break. Tommy Armstrong "Creativity is the marvelous capacity to grasp distinct realities and draw a spark from their juxtaposition." Max Ernst From cjkuo at verizon.net Fri Dec 17 22:08:42 2004 From: cjkuo at verizon.net (Jimmy Kuo) Date: Fri Dec 17 22:08:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Off Topic ???????? Message-ID: <20041218060842.XHJ4287.out008.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> To me, this is as pertinent as discussion of cameras in photographing specimens. In fact, isn't that how this topic got started? It was about representing the specimen in 3-D, wasn't it? I admit, I had started deleting the messages. But I presume those who take pictures of their specimens would have been more interested in the discussion about the cameras, and there would be those who have interest in this particular field as well, even if it wasn't me. But certainly, we should allow for these discussions. At some point in the future, we won't be sending and posting JPGs. We will be posting ACADs and letting our 3-D printer render the image. When, I don't know. But it will happen. And I am talking about rocks. At Stanford about 2-3 years ago, I read that they developed a copying bay that used lasers to capture a 3-D image and then they sent that some place and had a duplicate solid object rendered. They said it was good for sending models. Sounds to me that would be good for creating copies/models of facets that I see in the rock museums too. It's good to know about future technology that's going to affect your hobby. Jimmy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tommy Armstrong" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 9:48 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Off Topic ???????? > Aaron Wrote: > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 3-D Printer > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > Hey all, > > It's time for the 3-d printer conversation to migrate off list or to stop, > please. A few folks have gently complained via private email that it's > getting a bit off topic. > > "So what?" > > Bandwidth is not a problem now as it was years ago. Hardrive space isn't > either. > > > > Now I can understand that if it was about religion or politics. If a list > member cannot hit his delete button or skip a message because it is in his > opinion "a bit off topic" well then I will be glad to instruct him or her > how to accomplish it. I do it everytime I get mail from this list and never > complain about all those topics that do not interest me. Because every once > in a while there is a morsel to be savored. > > The heading that is in the To line states: > > Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > The object of the preposition "for" is collectors--ie people. Now if three > or four collectors decide that the topic is worth discussing, I see no harm > to the other 1000 or so that does not want to participate. What exactly are > the guidelines. > > The object of the preposition "for" is collectors--ie people. Now if three > or four collectors decide that the topic is worth discussing, I see no harm > to the other 500 or so that does not want to participate. What exactly are > the guidelines. > > I guess I have missed out on the whole concept of this list. I thought that > it was a place for people with interests in minerals and gems to get > together to discuss things. Do they have to discuss mineral and gems? What > happens when that discussion leads to another topic. Isn't that what human > conversation is all about. Isn't that the way that people expand their > vision? What difference does it make that a subject like 3d printing came up > during a post and that evolved into a new thread--maybe not directly related > to rocks and minerals but obviously of enough interest to rock and gem > collectors to keep it going. Threads die when no one else wants to say > anything. > > It is true that I have noticed very little humor on this list--is that off > topic only? > > Gimme a break. > > Tommy Armstrong > > "Creativity is the marvelous capacity to grasp distinct realities and draw a > spark from their juxtaposition." > Max Ernst > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Paintricks at aol.com Fri Dec 17 22:34:23 2004 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Fri Dec 17 22:34:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Off Topic ???????? Message-ID: <1f1.312ab152.2ef5296f@aol.com> This sounds like a good way to scale references for Airbrushing and illustrating rocks. I'm gonna have to look into it. Kevin Paintricks Airbrushing --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Fri Dec 17 22:37:55 2004 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Linda Rasmussen) Date: Fri Dec 17 22:39:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chicken Track Jasper References: <004901c4e4bc$bfb82f00$4a0bbed8@jedscl07h66gyy> Message-ID: <01ee01c4e4cc$1c51ca00$645fe842@pavilion> Jed, Sorry the chicken track I have is not blue, almost but not quite, Thanks for asking, Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: Jed and Abby To: Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 9:47 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Chicken Track Jasper I would like to buy about 10 to 15 lbs of chicken track jasper from the mcdermitt area of nevada. I only want material with blue sky. If you have some to sell, you are welcome to send information to my personal e-mail account. Thank you, Jed --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at aloha.net Fri Dec 17 23:18:39 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Dec 17 22:48:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Off Topic ???????? In-Reply-To: <3khj62$jlfq4m@mxip13a.cluster1.charter.net> References: <004901c4e4bc$bfb82f00$4a0bbed8@jedscl07h66gyy> <3khj62$jlfq4m@mxip13a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041217210427.034092c0@mail.aloha.net> Tommy, I'm not responding to the rest of your message for a variety of reasons (and I actually agree with some of your points), but I have to say that if you have noticed very little humor on this list, you've obviously skipped over MANY posts! As I've mentioned on several occasions, if a laugh a day keeps the doctor away, then a lot of us who participate on this list are going to live forever. Axel alone will contribute to a huge number of years!...and there are LOTS of other people who are extremely witty and funny---some who can produce a huge laugh with only one short line. Aloha, Kitty At 07:48 PM 12/17/2004, you wrote: >It is true that I have noticed very little humor on this list... > >Tommy Armstrong -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.0 - Release Date: 12/17/2004 From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Dec 18 02:44:51 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Dec 18 02:44:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] european coin? In-Reply-To: <9.39a95a5e.2ef4e26c@aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Grant, you found a Belgian coin that was worth 10 Belgian Francs (at the time, about 25 dollar cent). The profile is that of our late king Boudewijn 1 (you'd call him Baldwin, I guess ;-))) I'll send you an image off list. Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Lapadary@aol.com Verzonden: zaterdag 18 december 2004 2:31 Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] european coin? Hello, I found a very plain looking silvery coin, with a mans profile on the front and on the back it has something like a coat-of-arms with Belgie on the top, 1977 on the bottom, 10 on the left of the coat-of-arms, and F on the right of the coat-of-arms. Is this from Belgium? I know most of those European coins were replaced by Euros. I was going to give this one to my grandson but I decided I should find out for sure what it is -- because I know he will ask. Oh, just to stay on topic, I accidentally dropped the coin and found it laying beside a piece of green and red Maury Mountain agate. Merry Christmas rockhounds and thanks for another year of exciting rhetoric, arguments, directions, and information. Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From michelblondieau at freegates.be Sat Dec 18 03:13:42 2004 From: michelblondieau at freegates.be (Michel Blondieau) Date: Sat Dec 18 03:18:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] european coin? In-Reply-To: <9.39a95a5e.2ef4e26c@aol.com> References: <9.39a95a5e.2ef4e26c@aol.com> Message-ID: <41C410E6.4080208@freegates.be> Hello, Yes, it was an old coin in use in Belgium up to 1982, I think. All the coin is nickel and than is magnetic. Today the "belgian franc" (Bef) is replaced by "euros" (?) To convert these moneys : 1 ? = 40,3399 Bef. Friendly from Belgium, Michel Blondieau http://membres.lycos.fr/minbe Lapadary@aol.com wrote: >Hello, > >I found a very plain looking silvery coin, with a mans profile on the front >and on the back it has something like a coat-of-arms with Belgie on the top, >1977 on the bottom, 10 on the left of the coat-of-arms, and F on the right >of the coat-of-arms. > >Is this from Belgium? I know most of those European coins were replaced by >Euros. I was going to give this one to my grandson but I decided I should find >out for sure what it is -- because I know he will ask. > >Oh, just to stay on topic, I accidentally dropped the coin and found it >laying beside a piece of green and red Maury Mountain agate. > >Merry Christmas rockhounds and thanks for another year of exciting rhetoric, >arguments, directions, and information. > > >Grant > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.0 - Release Date: 17/12/2004 From afox at drizzle.com Sat Dec 18 03:41:10 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Sat Dec 18 03:41:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Off Topic ???????? In-Reply-To: <3khj62$jlfq4m@mxip13a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: The threshold for 'off-topic' posts is very biased, unscientific, and rather arbitrary. Basically, I let the discussion go until one of three things happen: 1) We get blatantly outside the realm of rockhounding or hobbies in general. For example, the minute things start straying to politics or religion, I begin stepping in. As several folks had pointed out, the 3D printers thread really wasn't all that far out of our areas of interest. 2) A flame skirmish begins. These are nipped in the bud. 3) I start getting a non-insignificant number of people messaging me privately about the thread. For example, in the case of the 3D printer discussion, I had twelve different emails from twelve different members, all wondering either how common this type of thread was, or gently suggesting that it might be off-topic. This is what happened in the 3D printers thread. It's not mob rule here. We're all adults, and, unlike many mailing lists I've been on, almost everybody here is extremely kind, helpful, knowledgable, and respectful. Thus, when twelve of you take the time to to suggest to me that something might not be right, I really feel obligated to listen. And, in this case, I agreed with them. It was an interesting topic, but one that I thought had migrated out of the core domain (rocks, minerals, fossils, localities, lapidary, geology, etc) of the list. That's why I suggested that those interested migrate the discussion off list. Notice that I have never actually censored anything. I've suggested that certain threads should stop. But I've never canceled a posting or unsubscribed a user who kept talking. There's no reason to do that; I'll NEVER do that, unless what you're saying violates our list rules (see the webpage). And even then, I'd rather warn than blatantly cancel or unsubscribe. We're all here because, to varying extents, we share a common interest in rocks and minerals. That's what most of us want to talk about, and where most of us want to spend our time. Diversions are healthy, but it can get to the point where it becomes a distraction to the purpose of the list itself. I feel like I've not done a very good job of answering the complaints regarding this issue. I would welcome further discussion, offlist if possible so as to keep the list on topic, and apologize in advance if I've offenden anyone. Aaron Fox Rockhounds Admin -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sat Dec 18 09:41:51 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sat Dec 18 09:42:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] european coin? In-Reply-To: <23173121.1103335257045.JavaMail.root@wamui05.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000601c4e528$de7af870$5e3688d9@maxdata> And what's even more : its not only "Belgian", but even somewhat rare. Coins of 10 F(rancs) have been in circulation for only a few years, and are not at all widespread. Of course, we have no francs anymore... Greetings, Rik (Belgian citizen :>)) Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of *acraven@mindspring.com *Sent: zaterdag 18 december 2004 3:01 *To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem *collectors; rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com *Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] european coin? * * *Yes, it is Belgian. * *Ann Craven * *---- * *From: Lapadary@aol.com *I found a very plain looking silvery coin, with a mans profile *on the front *and on the back it has something like a coat-of-arms with *Belgie on the top, *1977 on the bottom, 10 on the left of the coat-of-arms, and F *on the right *of the coat-of-arms. * *Is this from Belgium? I know most of those European coins were * replaced by *Euros. I was going to give this one to my grandson but I *decided I should find *out for sure what it is -- because I know he will ask. From Lapadary at aol.com Sat Dec 18 09:58:13 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Sat Dec 18 09:58:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] european coin? Message-ID: <12b.52a0cc1a.2ef5c9b5@aol.com> In a message dated 12/18/2004 9:42:25 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, rik.dillen@skynet.be writes: And what's even more : its not only "Belgian", but even somewhat rare. Coins of 10 F(rancs) have been in circulation for only a few years, and are not at all widespread. Of course, we have no francs anymore... Hey, maybe I'll keep it myself. My grandson doesn't need a rare coin, not as much as his grandfather does. I've heard that ebay was invented so there would be a place to dispose of the national coins replaced by the Euro -- plus all the ones left over when CCCP (USSR) went back to being Russia. Then Yugoslavia ceased to exist so millions of Yugoslav coins were orphaned . Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tjokela at execulink.com Sat Dec 18 10:36:46 2004 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Sat Dec 18 10:36:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Off Topic ???????? References: <3khj62$jlfq4m@mxip13a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <000d01c4e530$877306f0$6401a8c0@Junior> snip > Do they have to discuss mineral and gems? snip Um, yes please. Some of us get a tremendous amount of email. Too much spam = people unsubscribing. Staying on topic is A Good Thing. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Dec 18 10:51:20 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Dec 18 10:51:05 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] european coin? In-Reply-To: <12b.52a0cc1a.2ef5c9b5@aol.com> Message-ID: Spoken as a true numismatic... Soon the Belgian coin will be worth a fortune and you'll trade it for a mass a specimens... Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Lapadary@aol.com Verzonden: zaterdag 18 december 2004 18:58 Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] european coin? In a message dated 12/18/2004 9:42:25 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, rik.dillen@skynet.be writes: And what's even more : its not only "Belgian", but even somewhat rare. Coins of 10 F(rancs) have been in circulation for only a few years, and are not at all widespread. Of course, we have no francs anymore... Hey, maybe I'll keep it myself. My grandson doesn't need a rare coin, not as much as his grandfather does. I've heard that ebay was invented so there would be a place to dispose of the national coins replaced by the Euro -- plus all the ones left over when CCCP (USSR) went back to being Russia. Then Yugoslavia ceased to exist so millions of Yugoslav coins were orphaned . Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Fossil1960 at aol.com Sat Dec 18 18:07:29 2004 From: Fossil1960 at aol.com (Fossil1960@aol.com) Date: Sat Dec 18 18:07:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pele Message-ID: <15a.464ab27e.2ef63c61@aol.com> Hello All Last year some one on the list posted a link to a web site that had images of Pele in lava. I think it was Kitty but am not positive. My puter was hit by lightning earlier this year and all my links are now gone. Does any one remember this site? One photo that I remember well looked like a dragon in the lava. Thanks Robin Hendrix --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From davisj at earthlink.net Sat Dec 18 18:21:49 2004 From: davisj at earthlink.net (Joe Davis) Date: Sat Dec 18 18:21:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Off Topic ???????? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Aron You do a great job..keep it up. From a primarily lurker. Joe Davis From kahako at aloha.net Sat Dec 18 18:59:18 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Dec 18 18:29:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pele In-Reply-To: <15a.464ab27e.2ef63c61@aol.com> References: <15a.464ab27e.2ef63c61@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041218164900.03c92580@mail.aloha.net> Hi Robin, Here's the website: http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/main.html Click on Image Archive for past pictures, and be sure to click on "large" for best impression. The following dates were ones that were mentioned in earlier messages: Year: 2002 September 3 at 0620:40, resembles something from the underworld, one of the Angry Gods. 2 August, 2nd picture...a lava Cookie Monster or Jabba the Hut. 30 July, 4 pics of a biting monster. 26 July, 1st 3 pics of a drooling sea creature. 25 January, last picture for that date, is captioned "Close-up of a knuckle handshake between 2 glowering towers," but it reminds me of a grotesque version of Michelangelo's "God Creating Adam." 19 August, "Head-on view of tiny stair-climber" looks like a snake lifting its head to decide where to go next. Aloha, Kitty At 04:07 PM 12/18/2004, you wrote: >Hello All > > >Last year some one on the list posted a link to a web site that had images >of Pele >in lava. I think it was Kitty but am not positive. My puter was hit by >lightning earlier >this year and all my links are now gone. > >Does any one remember this site? One photo that I remember well looked like >a dragon >in the lava. > >Thanks > >Robin Hendrix > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.0 - Release Date: 12/17/2004 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.0 - Release Date: 12/17/2004 From Fossil1960 at aol.com Sat Dec 18 20:06:15 2004 From: Fossil1960 at aol.com (Fossil1960@aol.com) Date: Sat Dec 18 20:06:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pele Message-ID: <13d.8dd008e.2ef65837@aol.com> In a message dated 12/18/2004 8:30:07 P.M. Central Standard Time, kahako@aloha.net writes: _http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/main.html_ (http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/main.html) Kitty, This is not the web site that I remember. It was a personal web page with images taken by a man. He also talked about the photos and evidently takes some chances to get shots. Many were taken at night or in very low light. He must live near the volcano because he has lots of his own photos on his web page. I seem to remember that he had a lots of Pele shots. I remember thinking he was either crazy or brave getting that close to some of these lava flows. Thanks Robin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at aloha.net Sat Dec 18 22:06:35 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Dec 18 21:36:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pele In-Reply-To: <13d.8dd008e.2ef65837@aol.com> References: <13d.8dd008e.2ef65837@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041218200548.03c9a1a0@mail.aloha.net> Maybe you mean: http://www.lavajunkie.com/gallery.html Aloha Kitty At 06:06 PM 12/18/2004, you wrote: >In a message dated 12/18/2004 8:30:07 P.M. Central Standard Time, >kahako@aloha.net writes: > >_http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/main.html_ >(http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/main.html) > >Kitty, > >This is not the web site that I remember. It was a personal web page with >images >taken by a man. He also talked about the photos and evidently takes some >chances to get shots. Many were taken at night or in very low light. He >must >live near the volcano because he has lots of his own photos on his web page. >I seem to remember that he had a lots of Pele shots. I remember thinking he >was >either crazy or brave getting that close to some of these lava flows. > >Thanks > >Robin > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.0 - Release Date: 12/17/2004 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.0 - Release Date: 12/17/2004 From TomE61 at aol.com Sat Dec 18 23:07:40 2004 From: TomE61 at aol.com (TomE61@aol.com) Date: Sat Dec 18 23:07:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Aaron's Response to Retiring a Topic and Off List Threads Message-ID: <127.51d2cb32.2ef682bc@aol.com> Aaron, I disagree with your posting.....you DID a GREAT job in passing along the will of the majority and you did it in a courteous and professional manner. While I don't agree that the topic was not relevant, that is MY issue and something I can take up with other members who want to disucss this further, as we have already done. I just wanted to make sure that I understood the guidelines for posting, and responding, and you also did an excellent job of detailing those as well. There are few e-mail forums out there, without challenges, but I must say, that this one does maintain a good deal of courtesy and respect, and even a good deal of humor, even for those topics which might ultimately be deemed to be a bit off the rock hounding path. Keep up the good work, Aaron ! P.S. I believe that tte 3D printer topic and the Digital Camera Topic have a lot in common and are related. To those of your who are interested, catch me or Tommy or Ronnie offline to discuss further if you want. At first glance, this is some awesome sh*t ! ! ! ! Happy, safe and satisfying holidays to ALL, Tom Russell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From ROCKCURRIER at cs.com Sat Dec 18 23:22:43 2004 From: ROCKCURRIER at cs.com (ROCKCURRIER@cs.com) Date: Sat Dec 18 23:22:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Greatings from China Message-ID: <1D1BB6B1.1159AC7E.3AEB17FB@cs.com> I thought I might avoid making another trip to buy specimens this year, but now find myself on a quick trip to China, although I probably wont make it home for Christmas. That really doesn't seem to matter all that much with the Chinese because they have taken to Christmas with gusto. My hotel which is across the street from the Geological Survey building in downtown Changsha (the capitol of Hunan state) has few Europeans in residence, but is all decked out with christmas decorations and the hostess in the coffee shop on the ground floor is all dressed up in a cute, santa helpers outfit and hundreds of giant erzatz snowflakes hang from the ceiling. My chinese host tells me that the merchants have embraced Christmas, not because it has anything to with any traditional Chinese holiday, but as a way to make extra sales and the general public loves holidays. ? ? Across the street and somewhat cati-corner is a little diagonal alley with a sign near its entrance that proclaims it to be the Gem and Mineral Market. As you enter, on both sides are the more traditional jewelry stores selling rings, jade, carvings etc, but as you get further back in the alley are small store frots that are the businesses that specalize in mineral specimens. Some specalize in high end decorator specimens each with their own carved wooden stand, and others sell all manner of mineral specimens from all over China. I think that often the dealers who sell the specimens don't even know where they are from. Some dealers specalize in specimens from particular mines and others try and have a few specimens from everywhere. Some have specimens more than a meter across. There is a long tradition in China of veneration of cave formations and wildly shaped river worn rocks. This year one of the dealers in the market place had some large stalactites, up to about six feet in height, each in their own glass case designed for each specimen, out in front of their little store. Many of the customers who visit here from Europe and the US want to just buy a few specimens that they can put in their suitcase and take home, high quality specimens only. Others want to buy quantities of speicmens, large lots. The dealers who cater to those dealers have large stacks of white plastic trays full of specimens that sit one on top of the other, lining the walls of their small sales areas. Frequently these small sales areas have back rooms full of speicmens, or small lofts built above. Some of these lofts are not tall enough for me to stand upin. ? ? If you want to pick and choose specimens, even modest small specimens, most dealers here will ot hesitate to ask you $100 or more. Sometimes, even if you want to buy the whole lot, like 100 to 200 so so fluroite speicmens from a particualr mine, they will ask more than 100 each. It all depends on if they think you are a sucker or not. When you buy a lot, a big group of specimens from a mine you usually not find any really fine specimens in the lot. The exceptional specimens have long since been picked out for individual sales. The dealere here have equal access to the internet and can see exactly what is asked for different kinds of specimens in the USA. The very fine speicmens are often reserved for the dealers or collectors who will pay the most money for the specimens. Traveling to China is no guarntee that you will even get to see the very bust specimens. If you want to see fin Chinese mineral specimens you should go to the Tucson Gem and Mineral show. There you will see more fine Chinese specimens that you could see in a month of looking here in Changsha. Although here, the price of the fine specimens, should you see any, may, but not necessarily, be cheaper than at Tucson. ? ? Stibnites are still abundant in the market here. For a modest price you can buy beautiful speicmens of stibnite that 20 years ago you would have had to have paid hundreds or even thousands of dollars for. The spesartine garnets are still being produced in spite of the government declaring the area off limits to collecting. The farmers who dig this material from surface workings on or near their farms do not take kindly to government orders to stop. Now if you ask the dealers about them they say the specimens are from old stocks. ? ? Today, Sunday, I have not seen many dealers and it is a good thing, because the electricity was out in the Gem and Mineral market and the rooms are dark, making it difficult or impossible to see the speicmens. You would think that that since it is not unusual for the poewr to go out that the dealers would at least have a flash light to make it possible for customers to see their goods. Afterall they want to sell you thousands or at least hudreds of dollars worth of speicmens. You would think that self preservation would tell them it would be wise to invest in a $5 dollar flashlight. Another practice that bothers me is that it is common for them to sprinkle watter on all their speicmens just before you get there to buy them. Of course many specimedns look better when they are wet or at least damp. I still have to tell them that I can't consider buying their speicmens unless I see them in a dry condition. The dealers have all learned that oil can be their best friend and it is almost impossible to find fluorite speicmens here that have not had oil applied to them. All the dealers here have learned to use the little hand held high pressure water guns to clean their speicmens and to use hydrochloric and even hydrfluoric acid to etch away quartz when needed to enhance the value of their speicmens.Rock Currier From kahako at aloha.net Sun Dec 19 00:13:09 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Dec 18 23:43:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Greetings from China In-Reply-To: <1D1BB6B1.1159AC7E.3AEB17FB@cs.com> References: <1D1BB6B1.1159AC7E.3AEB17FB@cs.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041218220257.03c9c4b0@mail.aloha.net> Great report, Rock! Many thanks. I've heard & read reports from many places, but never from China....this is fascinating. Some of it reminds me of shopping in certain places in Tokyo and Chang Mai (Thailand). You should have a battery-powered UV light with you...it would have been great for checking for fluorescence when the power went out. We glowhounds always have trouble in shops where there is no way to darken the room! Have a good Christmas and come back safely. Aloha, Kitty At 09:22 PM 12/18/2004, you wrote: >I thought I might avoid making another trip to buy specimens this year, >but now find myself on a quick trip to China, although I probably wont >make it home for Christmas. That really doesn't seem to matter all that >much with the Chinese because they have taken to Christmas with gusto. My >hotel which is across the street from the Geological Survey building in >downtown Changsha (the capitol of Hunan state) has few Europeans in >residence, but is all decked out with christmas decorations and the >hostess in the coffee shop on the ground floor is all dressed up in a >cute, santa helpers outfit and hundreds of giant erzatz snowflakes hang >from the ceiling. My chinese host tells me that the merchants have >embraced Christmas, not because it has anything to with any traditional >Chinese holiday, but as a way to make extra sales and the general public >loves holidays. Across the street and somewhat cati-corner is a little >diagonal alley with a sign near its entrance that proclaims it ! > to be the Gem and Mineral Market. As you enter, on both sides are the > more traditional jewelry stores selling rings, jade, carvings etc, but as > you get further back in the alley are small store frots that are the > businesses that specalize in mineral specimens. Some specalize in high > end decorator specimens each with their own carved wooden stand, and > others sell all manner of mineral specimens from all over China. I think > that often the dealers who sell the specimens don't even know where they > are from. Some dealers specalize in specimens from particular mines and > others try and have a few specimens from everywhere. Some have specimens > more than a meter across. There is a long tradition in China of > veneration of cave formations and wildly shaped river worn rocks. This > year one of the dealers in the market place had some large stalactites, > up to about six feet in height, each in their own glass case designed for > each specimen, out in front of their little store. Many of the ! > customers who visit here from Europe and the US want to just buy a few > specimens that they can put in their suitcase and take home, high > quality specimens only. Others want to buy quantities of speicmens, large > lots. The dealers who cater to those dealers have large stacks of white > plastic trays full of specimens that sit one on top of the other, lining > the walls of their small sales areas. Frequently these small sales areas > have back rooms full of speicmens, or small lofts built above. Some of > these lofts are not tall enough for me to stand upin. If you want to > pick and choose specimens, even modest small specimens, most dealers here > will ot hesitate to ask you $100 or more. Sometimes, even if you want to > buy the whole lot, like 100 to 200 so so fluroite speicmens from a > particualr mine, they will ask more than 100 each. It all depends on if > they think you are a sucker or not. When you buy a lot, a big group of > specimens from a mine you usually not find any really fine specimens in > the lot. The exceptional specimens have long since been p! > icked out for individual sales. The dealere here have equal access to > the internet and can see exactly what is asked for different kinds of > specimens in the USA. The very fine speicmens are often reserved for the > dealers or collectors who will pay the most money for the specimens. > Traveling to China is no guarntee that you will even get to see the very > bust specimens. If you want to see fin Chinese mineral specimens you > should go to the Tucson Gem and Mineral show. There you will see more > fine Chinese specimens that you could see in a month of looking here in > Changsha. Although here, the price of the fine specimens, should you see > any, may, but not necessarily, be cheaper than at Tucson. Stibnites > are still abundant in the market here. For a modest price you can buy > beautiful speicmens of stibnite that 20 years ago you would have had to > have paid hundreds or even thousands of dollars for. The spesartine > garnets are still being produced in spite of the government declari! > ng the area off limits to collecting. The farmers who dig this materia >l from surface workings on or near their farms do not take kindly to >government orders to stop. Now if you ask the dealers about them they say >the specimens are from old stocks. Today, Sunday, I have not seen many >dealers and it is a good thing, because the electricity was out in the Gem >and Mineral market and the rooms are dark, making it difficult or >impossible to see the speicmens. You would think that that since it is not >unusual for the poewr to go out that the dealers would at least have a >flash light to make it possible for customers to see their goods. Afterall >they want to sell you thousands or at least hudreds of dollars worth of >speicmens. You would think that self preservation would tell them it would >be wise to invest in a $5 dollar flashlight. Another practice that bothers >me is that it is common for them to sprinkle watter on all their speicmens >just before you get there to buy them. Of course many specimedns look >better when they are wet or at least damp.! > I still have to tell them that I can't consider buying their speicmens > unless I see them in a dry condition. The dealers have all learned that > oil can be their best friend and it is almost impossible to find fluorite > speicmens here that have not had oil applied to them. All the dealers > here have learned to use the little hand held high pressure water guns to > clean their speicmens and to use hydrochloric and even hydrfluoric acid > to etch away quartz when needed to enhance the value of their > speicmens.Rock Currier >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.0 - Release Date: 12/17/2004 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.0 - Release Date: 12/17/2004 From cjkuo at verizon.net Sun Dec 19 00:52:36 2004 From: cjkuo at verizon.net (Jimmy Kuo) Date: Sun Dec 19 00:52:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Saving links, was: Pele Message-ID: <20041219085237.NBKH10436.out012.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> If you're worried about losing your favorites, or want to transfer them to another computer, or are travelling and want to bring them along, They're in: C:\Documents and Settings\English\Favorites or some place similar. Just copy the directory somewhere for safe keeping, or to your USB thumbdrive. Jimmy From kadok at infowest.com Sun Dec 19 09:42:02 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sun Dec 19 09:42:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pele In-Reply-To: <15a.464ab27e.2ef63c61@aol.com> Message-ID: <20041219174158.B4AAECB92D0@delivery.infowest.com> Yes, I remember (and you'll probably get a bunch of other replies, too! It was/is the Hawaii Volcanoes site that kitty sent us http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/main/html (you will have to type this in, it's not "clickable") Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Fossil1960@aol.com Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 7:07 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Pele Hello All Last year some one on the list posted a link to a web site that had images of Pele in lava. I think it was Kitty but am not positive. My puter was hit by lightning earlier this year and all my links are now gone. Does any one remember this site? One photo that I remember well looked like a dragon in the lava. Thanks Robin Hendrix --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at aloha.net Sun Dec 19 11:22:09 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Dec 19 10:53:19 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] glossary of volcano terms In-Reply-To: <20041219174158.B4AAECB92D0@delivery.infowest.com> References: <15a.464ab27e.2ef63c61@aol.com> <20041219174158.B4AAECB92D0@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041219084526.04821eb0@mail.aloha.net> Someone just asked me off-list what "a'a" lava is, and I thought the following might be interesting to the list (I actually mentioned it some years ago, but with new members I'll repeat): The following wedsite is a glossary of volcano terms. It gives very good descriptions and explanations of terms that come from the Hawaiian language (like a'a, pahoehoe and Pele's hair), as well as things like phreatic, Plianian and Strombolian eruptions. There are excellent photos for each term. http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/Products/Pglossary/pglossary.html Aloha, Kitty At 07:42 AM 12/19/2004, you wrote: >Yes, I remember (and you'll probably get a bunch of other replies, too! It >was/is the Hawaii Volcanoes site that kitty sent us > >http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/main/html > >(you will have to type this in, it's not "clickable") > >Margaret > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of >Fossil1960@aol.com >Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 7:07 PM >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Subject: [Rockhounds] Pele > >Hello All > > >Last year some one on the list posted a link to a web site that had images >of Pele >in lava. I think it was Kitty but am not positive. My puter was hit by >lightning earlier >this year and all my links are now gone. > >Does any one remember this site? One photo that I remember well looked >like >a dragon >in the lava. > >Thanks > >Robin Hendrix > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.0 - Release Date: 12/17/2004 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.0 - Release Date: 12/17/2004 From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Sun Dec 19 13:45:50 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Sun Dec 19 13:46:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Long Wave on the Cheap In-Reply-To: <000a01c4e2ba$6386f580$e48b4c0c@fekib> Message-ID: <200412192146.iBJLk0wE011214@bubbleator.drizzle.com> A couple of weeks ago I bought a Way-Too-Cool UV lamp from Greg at his on-line shop (see: http://www.gslrocks.com/). And indeed, it is "Way Too Cool". I've been finding all sorts of nifty stuff on the chunks I brought back from Sterling a couple of weeks ago (thanks for the ID help, Earl!). I got the LW/MW/SW combo. It's a killer... -- but -- That's not why I write. The Way Too Cool lamp is not cheap. But, hey, you get what you pay for! In my quest for "Gee... I wonder if I can make THIS work.." I headed over to the local cheapo lumber yard (Menards, here in St. Paul) and grabbed up a gen-u-ine Feit Electric Blacklight (visualize funky lettering on the "Blacklight"). This isn't one of those coated incandescent bulbs, rather it's one of those new compact-fluorescent jobs. Here's a link: http://www.feit.com/neoncolor.html. I figured that this technology might be a wee bit better than the last one. -- the results -- For ten bucks, not too shabby at all! Willemite shows up quite nicely, Wernerite kicks, and my Rogerly fluorites really glow. The rest of the usual suspects, sphalerite and the like, aren't exactly brilliant. But like I said... What do you want for a tenner, eh? I'm popping a note to the company to see if they can give me any spectral information on the beast. Stay tuned... Gary Brown Catspaw Minerals http://www.catspaw-minerals.com Home of the MasMils/PLUS mine location disk. From lehkerd at gvsu.edu Sun Dec 19 16:16:57 2004 From: lehkerd at gvsu.edu (David Lehker) Date: Sun Dec 19 16:17:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lake Tahoe/Reno area Message-ID: I'm taking my teenage boys to Lake Tahoe over the Christmas break. While they snowboard, I'd be interested in any rock shops or collecting that might be available in the general area. I assume it's too cold to spend time collecting; but any suggestions would be appreciated. David Lehker, MSW, CSW Grand Valley State University School of Social Work DeVos Center, 401 W Fulton Grand Rapids Michigan 49504 616-331-6597 Fax - 616-331-6570 lehkerd@gvsu.edu From jaybates at rcn.com Sun Dec 19 16:38:50 2004 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sun Dec 19 16:41:19 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lake Tahoe/Reno area References: Message-ID: <000501c4e62c$46a22f00$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> There are a couple good rock shops in Fallon Nevada. There are also some in Reno I am not familiar with. The following link is of rock shops and a few clubs with phone numbers. You may want to call ahead and see if they are open. http://www.net-comber.com/rockshops.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Lehker" To: Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 4:16 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Lake Tahoe/Reno area > I'm taking my teenage boys to Lake Tahoe over the Christmas break. > While they snowboard, I'd be interested in any rock shops or collecting > that might be available in the general area. I assume it's too cold to > spend time collecting; but any suggestions would be appreciated. > > David Lehker, MSW, CSW > Grand Valley State University > School of Social Work > DeVos Center, 401 W Fulton > Grand Rapids Michigan 49504 > 616-331-6597 > Fax - 616-331-6570 > lehkerd@gvsu.edu > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Fossil1960 at aol.com Sun Dec 19 21:39:37 2004 From: Fossil1960 at aol.com (Fossil1960@aol.com) Date: Sun Dec 19 21:39:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pele Message-ID: <1db.31a29975.2ef7bf99@aol.com> Kitty http://www.lavajunkie.com/gallery.html Thanks so much for the URL. This is exactly the web site that I remembered! I do like his photos and the island links on his pages. Thanks again Robin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From italianminerals at libero.it Mon Dec 20 09:19:31 2004 From: italianminerals at libero.it (ItalianMinerals) Date: Mon Dec 20 09:19:36 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD - Xmas update ! Message-ID: <200412201719.iBKHJVeM007467@antivirus.unimo.it> Hi there ! Just before Xmas a couple of new pages have been added to out website. There are a number of new honey colored SPHALERITE crystals on matrix from Italy, bright green UVAROVITE from Pakistan, and bright brown VESUVIANITE crystals on matrix from the type locality, that is Vesuvio, Napoli, Italy. You can see these material visiting aour web site: www.ItalianMinerals.com or just go to: for SPHALERITE goto http://www.italianminerals.com/ITALY/sfalerite.html for UVAROVITE goto http://www.italianminerals.com/ASIA/uvarovite.html for VESUVIANITE goto http://www.italianminerals.com/ITALY/vesuvio/Vesuvio.html A lot of other minerals are available on our pages! We take this chance to wish to you all a Happy Christmas and a prosperous 2005. Thanks for your support, Alessandro (ItalianMinerals.com) From italianminerals at libero.it Mon Dec 20 09:19:55 2004 From: italianminerals at libero.it (ItalianMinerals) Date: Mon Dec 20 09:19:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD - Xmas update ! Message-ID: <200412201719.iBKHJtco007649@antivirus.unimo.it> Hi there ! Just before Xmas a couple of new pages have been added to out website. There are a number of new honey colored SPHALERITE crystals on matrix from Italy, bright green UVAROVITE from Pakistan, and bright brown VESUVIANITE crystals on matrix from the type locality, that is Vesuvio, Napoli, Italy. You can see these material visiting aour web site: www.ItalianMinerals.com or just go to: for SPHALERITE goto http://www.italianminerals.com/ITALY/sfalerite.html for UVAROVITE goto http://www.italianminerals.com/ASIA/uvarovite.html for VESUVIANITE goto http://www.italianminerals.com/ITALY/vesuvio/Vesuvio.html A lot of other minerals are available on our pages! We take this chance to wish to you all a Happy Christmas and a prosperous 2005. Thanks for your support, Alessandro (ItalianMinerals.com) From italianminerals at libero.it Mon Dec 20 18:21:33 2004 From: italianminerals at libero.it (ItalianMinerals) Date: Mon Dec 20 09:21:05 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD - Xmas update ! Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.0.20041220182053.02922b40@popmail.libero.it> Hi there ! Just before Xmas a couple of new pages have been added to out website. There are a number of new honey colored SPHALERITE crystals on matrix from Italy, bright green UVAROVITE from Pakistan, and bright brown VESUVIANITE crystals on matrix from the type locality, that is Vesuvio, Napoli, Italy. You can see these material visiting aour web site: www.ItalianMinerals.com or just go to: for SPHALERITE goto http://www.italianminerals.com/ITALY/sfalerite.html for UVAROVITE goto http://www.italianminerals.com/ASIA/uvarovite.html for VESUVIANITE goto http://www.italianminerals.com/ITALY/vesuvio/Vesuvio.html A lot of other minerals are available on our pages! We take this chance to wish to you all a Happy Christmas and a prosperous 2005. Thanks for your support, Alessandro (ItalianMinerals.com) ===================== Visit us at: http://www.ItalianMinerals.com for quality minerals !! Check our auctions on Ebay at: http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=italianminerals&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=50 ===================== From italianminerals at libero.it Mon Dec 20 09:21:38 2004 From: italianminerals at libero.it (ItalianMinerals) Date: Mon Dec 20 09:21:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD - Xmas update ! Message-ID: <200412201721.iBKHLcvp008876@antivirus.unimo.it> Hi there ! Just before Xmas a couple of new pages have been added to out website. There are a number of new honey colored SPHALERITE crystals on matrix from Italy, bright green UVAROVITE from Pakistan, and bright brown VESUVIANITE crystals on matrix from the type locality, that is Vesuvio, Napoli, Italy. You can see these material visiting aour web site: www.ItalianMinerals.com or just go to: for SPHALERITE goto http://www.italianminerals.com/ITALY/sfalerite.html for UVAROVITE goto http://www.italianminerals.com/ASIA/uvarovite.html for VESUVIANITE goto http://www.italianminerals.com/ITALY/vesuvio/Vesuvio.html A lot of other minerals are available on our pages! We take this chance to wish to you all a Happy Christmas and a prosperous 2005. Thanks for your support, Alessandro (ItalianMinerals.com) ************ You receive this email since you have been in touch with us. In case you would like to be removed from our not so frequent mailing, let us know. ************ From italianminerals at libero.it Mon Dec 20 09:22:51 2004 From: italianminerals at libero.it (ItalianMinerals) Date: Mon Dec 20 09:22:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD - Xmas update ! Message-ID: <200412201722.iBKHMp4C009719@antivirus.unimo.it> Hi there ! Just before Xmas a couple of new pages have been added to out website. There are a number of new honey colored SPHALERITE crystals on matrix from Italy, bright green UVAROVITE from Pakistan, and bright brown VESUVIANITE crystals on matrix from the type locality, that is Vesuvio, Napoli, Italy. You can see these material visiting our web site: www.ItalianMinerals.com or just go to: for SPHALERITE goto http://www.italianminerals.com/ITALY/sfalerite.html for UVAROVITE goto http://www.italianminerals.com/ASIA/uvarovite.html for VESUVIANITE goto http://www.italianminerals.com/ITALY/vesuvio/Vesuvio.html A lot of other minerals are available on our pages! We take this chance to wish to you all a Happy Christmas and a prosperous 2005. Thanks for your support, Alessandro (ItalianMinerals.com) ************ You receive this email since you have been in touch with us. In case you would like to be removed from our not so frequent mailing, let us know. ************ From herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be Mon Dec 20 10:47:01 2004 From: herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be (herwig pelckmans) Date: Mon Dec 20 10:51:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] MASTERPIECES OF THE MINERAL WORLD References: <1db.31a29975.2ef7bf99@aol.com> Message-ID: <001701c4e6c4$4ad3f5c0$919c76d5@telenet.be> Hi, This book on minerals was published November 2004 ... I googled extensively and found a few reviews, but would like to know more, and especially what the list members think of this publication. Have you seen it yet? Is it a coffee table mineral book? Any comments? Curiously, Herwig Herwig Pelckmans Worldwide Mineral Collector Cardijnstraat 12 B-3530 Helchteren Belgium Europe http://www.xlizd.com From herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be Mon Dec 20 10:50:19 2004 From: herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be (herwig pelckmans) Date: Mon Dec 20 10:53:54 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Your favorite "mineral coffee table book" ? Message-ID: <002001c4e6c4$c0c91a80$919c76d5@telenet.be> Hi, The time for best wishes and gifts is approaching, so I wandered... What is your favorite "mineral coffee table book" ? Sincerely, Herwig Herwig Pelckmans Worldwide Mineral Collector Cardijnstraat 12 B-3530 Helchteren Belgium Europe http://www.xlizd.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From morningstar at att.net Mon Dec 20 11:02:48 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Mon Dec 20 11:02:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] MASTERPIECES OF THE MINERAL WORLD Message-ID: <122020041902.14902.41C721D80009B54C00003A3621603759649D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "herwig pelckmans" > Hi, > > This book on minerals was published November 2004 ... > I googled extensively and found a few reviews, but would like to know more, > and especially what the list members think of this publication. Have you > seen it yet? Is it a coffee table mineral book? Well I haven't seen it, but here is the publicity blurb from Amazon.com; after seeing this, and knowing the provenance Herwig, you can decide whether it might be the kind of book you are seeking (one also wonders who decided that this collection was "the finest and best known in the world"): "Editorial Reviews About the Author Wendell E. Wilson is editor and publisher of The Mineralogical Record. Joel A. Bartsch is curator of gems and minerals at the Houston Museum of Natural Science. Product Description: The collection of natural mineral crystals housed at the Houston Museum of Natural Science is the finest and best known in the world. Now the treasures of this singular collection are shown in resplendent photographs that will seduce both the connoisseur of beauty and the student of natural history. The spectacular and rare specimens on display here, from a huge imperial topaz crystal weighing more than 2,000 carats to a crystallized gold cluster that is one of the most highly coveted objects in the mineral kingdom, are true masterpieces, the Rembrandts and Picassos of the natural world. Like fine art, minerals are prized for their aesthetic qualities-color, luster, sculptural composition-and for their provenance. Avidly pursued by naturalists throughout the centuries, precious metals and gem crystals have a fascinating history. Stories regarding the pursuit and discovery of these precious natural objects, including tales of good luck and hardship, are related in these pages. Essays that explore connoisseurship in the mineral kingdom and chronicle the history of this noble pursuit add to the appeal of this unique volume. AUTHOR BIO: Wendell E. Wilson is editor and publisher of The Mineralogical Record. Joel A. Bartsch is curator of gems and minerals at the Houston Museum of Natural Science." From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Dec 20 11:48:13 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Dec 20 11:48:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Your favorite "mineral coffee table book" ? References: <002001c4e6c4$c0c91a80$919c76d5@telenet.be> Message-ID: <41C72C75.7A5F@Tomaszewski.net> herwig pelckmans wrote: > > Hi, > > The time for best wishes and gifts is approaching, so I wandered... > What is your favorite "mineral coffee table book" ? > > Sincerely, Herwig "Mineralogy of Michigan" by E.W. Heinrich, updated and revised by George W. Robinson. Kreigh (in cold and snowy Michigan) From tim at orerockon.com Mon Dec 20 11:49:32 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Dec 20 11:49:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD - Xmas update ! In-Reply-To: <200412201722.iBKHMp4C009719@antivirus.unimo.it> References: <200412201722.iBKHMp4C009719@antivirus.unimo.it> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041220114642.0256a1b0@mail.spiritone.com> Did we really need 5 copies of this? One is plenty. And I am curious now, did this person harvest our email addresses from this list? I know I never had any contact with them and suddenly began receiving an ad a day or so from them until I complained to their ISP. Requesting to be removed from their list only brought me more ads that I didn't ask for. At 09:22 AM 12/20/2004, you wrote: >Hi there ! >Just before Xmas a couple of new pages have been added to out website. >There are a number of new honey colored SPHALERITE crystals on matrix from >Italy, bright green UVAROVITE >from Pakistan, and bright brown VESUVIANITE crystals on matrix from the >type locality, that is Vesuvio, Napoli, Italy. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Mon Dec 20 11:55:50 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Mon Dec 20 11:56:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD - Xmas update ! In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041220114642.0256a1b0@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <200412201956.iBKJu4NB001466@bubbleator.drizzle.com> I think more often than not his email sending mechanism "burps" and spits out a bunch of copies. My guess it's a sin of techie gunk rather than an overt send-out-ten-zillion-copies thing. Mind you, the harvesting of the addresses is a totally different issue. GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Tim Fisher > Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 1:50 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] AD - Xmas update ! > > Did we really need 5 copies of this? One is plenty. And I am > curious now, did this person harvest our email addresses from > this list? I know I never had any contact with them and > suddenly began receiving an ad a day or so from them until I > complained to their ISP. Requesting to be removed from their > list only brought me more ads that I didn't ask for. > > At 09:22 AM 12/20/2004, you wrote: > > > >Hi there ! > >Just before Xmas a couple of new pages have been added to > out website. > >There are a number of new honey colored SPHALERITE crystals > on matrix > >from Italy, bright green UVAROVITE from Pakistan, and bright brown > >VESUVIANITE crystals on matrix from the type locality, that > is Vesuvio, > >Napoli, Italy. From kahako at aloha.net Mon Dec 20 12:38:40 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Dec 20 12:08:36 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD - Xmas update ! In-Reply-To: <200412201956.iBKJu4NB001466@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041220114642.0256a1b0@mail.spiritone.com> <200412201956.iBKJu4NB001466@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041220103628.06654c80@mail.aloha.net> I've sent a message to Alessandro regarding this, but haven't gotten a response yet. He is a member of this List, and I expect he would respond positively to constructive criticism. Aloha, Kitty At 09:55 AM 12/20/2004, you wrote: >I think more often than not his email sending mechanism "burps" and spits >out a bunch of copies. My guess it's a sin of techie gunk rather than an >overt send-out-ten-zillion-copies thing. Mind you, the harvesting of the >addresses is a totally different issue. > >GcB -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.1 - Release Date: 12/20/2004 From italianminerals at libero.it Mon Dec 20 13:38:53 2004 From: italianminerals at libero.it (Italian Minerals) Date: Mon Dec 20 13:39:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] sorry ! Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.0.20041220223659.01d0c080@popmail.libero.it> Sorry for the repeated emails ! they were unwanted and due to a repeated "send" command of my email program. Excuse me again ! Alessandro (italianMinerals.com) ============================= Italian Minerals http://www.italianminerals.com quality minerals from Italy and worldwide ============================= From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Mon Dec 20 13:57:13 2004 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Mon Dec 20 13:57:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Your favorite "mineral coffee table book" ? In-Reply-To: <002001c4e6c4$c0c91a80$919c76d5@telenet.be> References: <002001c4e6c4$c0c91a80$919c76d5@telenet.be> Message-ID: <41C74AB9.4030005@tenforward.com> Hi Herwig and Everyone, As a big fan of these types of books here are a few of my favorites.... Gem and Crystal Treasures, P. Bancroft Tsumeb Vol 1 and 2, G. Gebhard The Tourmaline, A monograph, Benesch and Wohrmann Mineraux, Bariand and Bariand more?... The Beauty of Banded Agates, Carlson Petrified Wood, Daniels The Magic of Minerals, Medenbach The Desmond Sacco Collection, Cairncross The F. John Barlow Collection more, how about finishing with... Wonders Within Gemstones, De Goutiere and last but not least, the mineral art book... The World's Mineral Masterpieces, Equit There are many more and I love them all. Merry Christmas and Happy New Years everyone! All the very best, John herwig pelckmans wrote: >Hi, > >The time for best wishes and gifts is approaching, so I wandered... >What is your favorite "mineral coffee table book" ? > >Sincerely, Herwig > >Herwig Pelckmans >Worldwide Mineral Collector >Cardijnstraat 12 >B-3530 Helchteren >Belgium Europe >http://www.xlizd.com > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be Mon Dec 20 13:56:02 2004 From: herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be (herwig pelckmans) Date: Mon Dec 20 13:59:36 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Your favorite "mineral coffee table book" ? References: <002001c4e6c4$c0c91a80$919c76d5@telenet.be> Message-ID: <00a801c4e6de$b2d44340$919c76d5@telenet.be> Just noted that my message (or my poor English, your choice ;-) contains a rather funny "typo" ... Of course it needs to be : The time for best wishes and gifts is approaching, so I WONDERED... Fortunately Kreigh and Don already replied, so I assume the message was understandable after all! Cheers, Herwig ----- Original Message ----- From: "herwig pelckmans" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 7:50 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Your favorite "mineral coffee table book" ? Hi, The time for best wishes and gifts is approaching, so I wandered... What is your favorite "mineral coffee table book" ? Sincerely, Herwig Herwig Pelckmans Worldwide Mineral Collector Cardijnstraat 12 B-3530 Helchteren Belgium Europe http://www.xlizd.com From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Mon Dec 20 14:03:15 2004 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Mon Dec 20 14:03:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lake Tahoe/Reno area In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41C74C23.9060204@tenforward.com> Hi David and Everyone, If near Carson City, check out the Gold Nugget Casino. They had a large gold nugget collection there on display last I was in the area. Also interesting there is the U.S. Mint building and Museum. In Virginia City there is a business with a mineral museum on the outskirts of town that advertised their collection with a sign. The collection had some decent things, though nearly 100% of it was incorrectly labeled. All the best, John David Lehker wrote: >I'm taking my teenage boys to Lake Tahoe over the Christmas break. >While they snowboard, I'd be interested in any rock shops or collecting >that might be available in the general area. I assume it's too cold to >spend time collecting; but any suggestions would be appreciated. > >David Lehker, MSW, CSW >Grand Valley State University >School of Social Work >DeVos Center, 401 W Fulton >Grand Rapids Michigan 49504 >616-331-6597 >Fax - 616-331-6570 >lehkerd@gvsu.edu > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From morningstar at att.net Mon Dec 20 14:38:18 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Mon Dec 20 14:36:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Your favorite "mineral coffee table book" ? In-Reply-To: <41C74AB9.4030005@tenforward.com> References: <002001c4e6c4$c0c91a80$919c76d5@telenet.be> <41C74AB9.4030005@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <41C7545A.9020108@att.net> John and Gloria Cornish wrote: > The Magic of Minerals, Medenbach Is that Olaf Medenbach? Don From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Mon Dec 20 15:36:32 2004 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn's Mail) Date: Mon Dec 20 15:36:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pele References: <1db.31a29975.2ef7bf99@aol.com> Message-ID: <000701c4e6ec$bf3ea2c0$6601a8c0@GlennWimpee> Yep!!! These are really good! I am really enjoying the volcano sites Kitty and others pointed out to us. And other links noted at some of the sites. Incredible pictures and notes for us who cannot be there at the "right" time. Pele can also be found haunting other volcanoes. Who is the doctor that took off in the booth. Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 11:39 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Pele > Kitty > > http://www.lavajunkie.com/gallery.html > > > Thanks so much for the URL. This is exactly the web site that I remembered! > I do like his photos and the island links on his pages. > > Thanks again > > Robin > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at aloha.net Mon Dec 20 16:27:48 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Dec 20 15:57:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Your favorite "mineral coffee table book" ? In-Reply-To: <002001c4e6c4$c0c91a80$919c76d5@telenet.be> References: <002001c4e6c4$c0c91a80$919c76d5@telenet.be> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041220142557.02598530@mail.aloha.net> Minerals of the World by Alain Eid and Michel Viard Aloha, Kitty At 08:50 AM 12/20/2004, you wrote: >Hi, > >The time for best wishes and gifts is approaching, so I wandered... >What is your favorite "mineral coffee table book" ? > >Sincerely, Herwig > >Herwig Pelckmans >Worldwide Mineral Collector >Cardijnstraat 12 >B-3530 Helchteren >Belgium Europe >http://www.xlizd.com > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.1 - Release Date: 12/20/2004 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.1 - Release Date: 12/20/2004 From kahako at aloha.net Mon Dec 20 18:26:44 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Dec 20 17:56:41 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pele In-Reply-To: <000701c4e6ec$bf3ea2c0$6601a8c0@GlennWimpee> References: <1db.31a29975.2ef7bf99@aol.com> <000701c4e6ec$bf3ea2c0$6601a8c0@GlennWimpee> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041220142835.03a49150@mail.aloha.net> At 01:36 PM 12/20/2004, Glenn wrote: > >Pele can also be found haunting other volcanoes. > >Who is the doctor that took off in the booth. > >Glenn Sorry, I can't figure out what you're talking about with the doctor and the booth....??? But here's a story about Pele and other volcanoes: Shortly after Mt. St. Helens blew her top in May of 1980, my brother---who was living in Seattle at the time---saw a small article in the Seattle Times, buried in the second section of the paper. He had visited us many times in Hawaii, and thus knew all the legends and tales about Madam Pele. He knew that she generally has two incarnations: one is a young woman with black hair, dressed in red. The other is an old woman with long gray hair, with a small white dog on a leash. The news article went something like this: "Missing Woman, Dog. Forest Service and rescue helicopters resumed search this morning for a woman seen yesterday evening on the slopes of Mt. St. Helens. At 4:15pm yesterday a Forest Service pilot who was returning to base reported seeing what appeared to be an elderly woman with long gray hair, walking through ankle-deep ash in the wake of Mt. St. Helen's eruption. The pilot saw that she had a small white dog on a leash, and their footsteps were clearly visible in the ash for some distance behind them. The area was in the midst of the worst devastation and they were miles from any civilization. The pilot did not have enough fuel to stop and pick her up, so he noted the location, reported the sighting to rescue headquarters, and returned to base. When a rescue helicopter and the original pilot returned to the location an hour later, there was no sign of the women or the dog. One pilot reported seeing some footprints that resembled those of one person a small animal, possibly a dog, but they were being gradually obliterated by rising wind." My brother felt the hair stand up on the back if his neck, and he called me to relate the story. I told a Hawaiian friend about this, and she smiled, and noted that the normal mild activity at Kilauea had completely stopped on May 17, the day before the Mt. St. Helens eruption, and had not resumed yet. "Maybe Madam Pele went on a vacation," she said with a grin, "I hear the Pacific Northwest is nice this time of year." Aloha, Kitty -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.1 - Release Date: 12/20/2004 From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Mon Dec 20 18:16:21 2004 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Mon Dec 20 18:16:20 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Your favorite "mineral coffee table book" ? In-Reply-To: <41C7545A.9020108@att.net> References: <002001c4e6c4$c0c91a80$919c76d5@telenet.be> <41C74AB9.4030005@tenforward.com> <41C7545A.9020108@att.net> Message-ID: <41C78775.7020906@tenforward.com> Hi Don and Everyone, Yes, though I should have listed it as The Magic of Minerals by Olaf Medenbach and Harry Wilk, and translated by John Sampson White. This work of 205 pages includes 110 color photographs, and many if not most are at 10 x 12 glorious inches. It is from 1977 and as such, it offers a wonderful photographic time capsule of mineralogy of the day. Take care and all the very best, John Don H wrote: > John and Gloria Cornish wrote: > > >> The Magic of Minerals, Medenbach > > > Is that Olaf Medenbach? > > Don > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From morningstar at att.net Mon Dec 20 18:34:43 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Mon Dec 20 18:33:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Your favorite "mineral coffee table book" ? In-Reply-To: <41C78775.7020906@tenforward.com> References: <002001c4e6c4$c0c91a80$919c76d5@telenet.be> <41C74AB9.4030005@tenforward.com> <41C7545A.9020108@att.net> <41C78775.7020906@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <41C78BC3.5000802@att.net> John and Gloria Cornish wrote: > Hi Don and Everyone, > > Yes, though I should have listed it as The Magic of Minerals by Olaf > Medenbach and Harry Wilk, and translated by John Sampson White. Indeed, I didn't know Olaf was so multi-talented. He is very well known as an optical mineralogist, and he is quite a machinist who creates the most elaborate instruments that microscope companies won't produce any more. I need to check this book out. Maybe I'll show you photos of some of his work when I move to Idaho. If you get the Mineralogical Record and have the special petrographic microscope issue, some of his collection is featured in there. Don From afox at drizzle.com Mon Dec 20 23:12:31 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Mon Dec 20 23:12:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD - Xmas update ! In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041220114642.0256a1b0@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: The person has been a member of the list since the inception. I will speak to the individual in private and inform him that email harvesting on Rockhounds is explicitly prohibited, and that one advertisment a month is more than enough. I don't want to have to resort to dropping members if I don't have to. Aaron Fox Rockhounds Admin > Did we really need 5 copies of this? One is plenty. And I am curious now, > did this person harvest our email addresses from this list? I know I never > had any contact with them and suddenly began receiving an ad a day or so > from them until I complained to their ISP. Requesting to be removed from > their list only brought me more ads that I didn't ask for. > > At 09:22 AM 12/20/2004, you wrote: > > > >Hi there ! > >Just before Xmas a couple of new pages have been added to out website. > >There are a number of new honey colored SPHALERITE crystals on matrix from > >Italy, bright green UVAROVITE > >from Pakistan, and bright brown VESUVIANITE crystals on matrix from the > >type locality, that is Vesuvio, Napoli, Italy. > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From italianminerals at libero.it Tue Dec 21 09:07:48 2004 From: italianminerals at libero.it (ItalianMinerals) Date: Tue Dec 21 00:14:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] sorry ! Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.0.20041221090450.02912b40@popmail.libero.it> I would like again to apologize with all the member of the list. I changed the email program and the importing of the email addresses confused my lists. This caused the mixing of some addresses. I'm not used to bother anyone. Sorry again for the repeated emails ! Excuse me again ! Alessandro (italianMinerals.com) ============================= Italian Minerals http://www.italianminerals.com quality minerals from Italy and worldwide ============================= _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ===================== Visit us at: http://www.ItalianMinerals.com for quality minerals !! Check our auctions on Ebay at: http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=italianminerals&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=50 ===================== From afox at drizzle.com Tue Dec 21 02:15:40 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Tue Dec 21 02:15:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Volunteers? Message-ID: So, the Rockhounds Information Page (the old home of this list at infodyn.com) is in drastic need of updating. See: Unfortunately, I don't have time to really do it right now. Between the thesis, studying for the ASBOG, and working F/T, I'm strapped. So, I'm asking the list for help. What I'm looking for is a few volunteers to do the following: 1) Check the validity of the links in the old Rockhounds Information Page. If you know of a site with an updated link, submit it to the blog (described below). If you can search out and FIND the updated link, that would be great, too! 2) Add new links to the site. Keep things fresh! If a couple people are interested in helping, what I'll do is this (when I get back from Scotland after New Years): 1) Set up a blog where folks can submit their updates. http://afox.erocs.org/ You can either create an account, or login as: USER: RHL_Guest Password: Email me for password. (you can also see my Sweden / Scotland pictures under the Sweeden forum, too!) 2) Try and contact Tom (if I can find him) about either us sending him an updated page, or pointing the old page to a new page at Drizzle. 3) Once we compile a list and I get some time, I'll generate the HTML, reformat, and repost. Volunteers, contact me off-list. Thanks! Aaron List Admin -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From lehkerd at gvsu.edu Tue Dec 21 09:49:48 2004 From: lehkerd at gvsu.edu (David Lehker) Date: Tue Dec 21 09:50:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lake Tahoe/Reno area Message-ID: Thanks to the several folks who responded with ideas and possibilities. Now I look forward to learning how to snow-board and engage in my favorite past-time. Sounds like it might even be possible to get into the field, weather permitting. Coming from Michigan in December, those possibilities look mighty attractive. David Lehker, MSW, CSW Grand Valley State University School of Social Work DeVos Center, 401 W Fulton Grand Rapids Michigan 49504 616-331-6597 Fax - 616-331-6570 lehkerd@gvsu.edu >>> j&gcornish@tenforward.com 12/20/04 05:03PM >>> Hi David and Everyone, If near Carson City, check out the Gold Nugget Casino. They had a large gold nugget collection there on display last I was in the area. Also interesting there is the U.S. Mint building and Museum. In Virginia City there is a business with a mineral museum on the outskirts of town that advertised their collection with a sign. The collection had some decent things, though nearly 100% of it was incorrectly labeled. All the best, John David Lehker wrote: >I'm taking my teenage boys to Lake Tahoe over the Christmas break. >While they snowboard, I'd be interested in any rock shops or collecting >that might be available in the general area. I assume it's too cold to >spend time collecting; but any suggestions would be appreciated. > >David Lehker, MSW, CSW >Grand Valley State University >School of Social Work >DeVos Center, 401 W Fulton >Grand Rapids Michigan 49504 >616-331-6597 >Fax - 616-331-6570 >lehkerd@gvsu.edu > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From lehkerd at gvsu.edu Tue Dec 21 12:40:49 2004 From: lehkerd at gvsu.edu (David Lehker) Date: Tue Dec 21 12:41:19 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Your favorite "mineral coffee table book" ? Message-ID: I have been enjoying "Minerals - An illustrated exploration of the dynamic world of Minerals and their properties" by George W. Robinson and Jeffrey Scovil. It's got great photos, but more importantly, It has a very nice and readable introduction to the world of Minerals. Excellent for someone like myself who is just learning about this world. Also, Thanks to whoever recommenced "The Barren Lands". I found it to be a fun and informative read. David Lehker, MSW, CSW Grand Valley State University School of Social Work DeVos Center, 401 W Fulton Grand Rapids Michigan 49504 616-331-6597 Fax - 616-331-6570 lehkerd@gvsu.edu >>> morningstar@att.net 12/20/04 09:34PM >>> John and Gloria Cornish wrote: > Hi Don and Everyone, > > Yes, though I should have listed it as The Magic of Minerals by Olaf > Medenbach and Harry Wilk, and translated by John Sampson White. Indeed, I didn't know Olaf was so multi-talented. He is very well known as an optical mineralogist, and he is quite a machinist who creates the most elaborate instruments that microscope companies won't produce any more. I need to check this book out. Maybe I'll show you photos of some of his work when I move to Idaho. If you get the Mineralogical Record and have the special petrographic microscope issue, some of his collection is featured in there. Don _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From asgardsgc at earthlink.net Tue Dec 21 21:39:56 2004 From: asgardsgc at earthlink.net (Mark Easterbrook) Date: Tue Dec 21 21:40:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Volunteers? Message-ID: <410-220041232253956898@earthlink.net> Aaron, Good luck with the ASBOG (Association of State Boards of Geology) test, or as I call it Geo Trivial Pursuit. It's a hard one to pass because there is not much specific study material out there for the test and geology is a very broad subject area. I am re-taking the test in March. I took a very good prep course at University of Florida (Gainesville) a couple of years ago that was geared specifically for passing the ASBOG. I think the course was $500 and lasted for less than a week (it was like total immersion in all things geology). I think courses like it are starting to pop up in other parts of the country. >From Another Lurker and fellow geologist, Mark Easterbrook > [Original Message] > From: Aaron Fox > To: Rockhounds mailing list > Date: 12/21/2004 5:13:17 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Volunteers? > > So, the Rockhounds Information Page (the old home of this list at > infodyn.com) is in drastic need of updating. See: > > Unfortunately, I don't have time to really do it right now. Between the > thesis, studying for the ASBOG, and working F/T, I'm strapped. So, I'm > asking the list for help. > > What I'm looking for is a few volunteers to do the following: > 1) Check the validity of the links in the old Rockhounds Information Page. > If you know of a site with an updated link, submit it to the blog > (described below). If you can search out and FIND the updated link, that > would be great, too! > > 2) Add new links to the site. Keep things fresh! > > If a couple people are interested in helping, what I'll do is this (when I > get back from Scotland after New Years): > > 1) Set up a blog where folks can submit their updates. > http://afox.erocs.org/ > You can either create an account, or login as: > USER: RHL_Guest > Password: Email me for password. > (you can also see my Sweden / Scotland pictures under the Sweeden > forum, too!) > > 2) Try and contact Tom (if I can find him) about either us sending him an > updated page, or pointing the old page to a new page at Drizzle. > > 3) Once we compile a list and I get some time, I'll generate the HTML, > reformat, and repost. > > Volunteers, contact me off-list. Thanks! > > Aaron > List Admin > > -- > afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox > FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your > computer. Press any key to reboot > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tangojuli at yahoo.com Wed Dec 22 04:32:47 2004 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Wed Dec 22 04:32:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Volunteers? In-Reply-To: <410-220041232253956898@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20041222123247.4071.qmail@web60810.mail.yahoo.com> Aaron- I'd like to help with the updating as I get a lot out of this list. My commitments won't let me take the lead on this, but I can work with others on it in January. Let me know. Happiest of holidays to all you rockhounds and especially to Aaron who keeps this link alive for a very special hobby (ok, obsession). tina aka tangojuli@yahoo.com > [Original Message] > From: Aaron Fox > To: Rockhounds mailing list > Date: 12/21/2004 5:13:17 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Volunteers? > > So, the Rockhounds Information Page (the old home of this list at > infodyn.com) is in drastic need of updating. See: > > Unfortunately, I don't have time to really do it right now. Between the > thesis, studying for the ASBOG, and working F/T, I'm strapped. So, I'm > asking the list for help. > > What I'm looking for is a few volunteers to do the following: > 1) Check the validity of the links in the old Rockhounds Information Page. > If you know of a site with an updated link, submit it to the blog > (described below). If you can search out and FIND the updated link, that > would be great, too! > > 2) Add new links to the site. Keep things fresh! > > If a couple people are interested in helping, what I'll do is this (when I > get back from Scotland after New Years): > > 1) Set up a blog where folks can submit their updates. > http://afox.erocs.org/ > You can either create an account, or login as: > USER: RHL_Guest > Password: Email me for password. > (you can also see my Sweden / Scotland pictures under the Sweeden > forum, too!) > > 2) Try and contact Tom (if I can find him) about either us sending him an > updated page, or pointing the old page to a new page at Drizzle. > > 3) Once we compile a list and I get some time, I'll generate the HTML, > reformat, and repost. > > Volunteers, contact me off-list. Thanks! > > Aaron > List Admin > > -- > afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox > FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your > computer. Press any key to reboot > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Wed Dec 22 07:56:41 2004 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Wed Dec 22 07:56:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Your favorite "mineral coffee table book" ? In-Reply-To: <41C78BC3.5000802@att.net> References: <002001c4e6c4$c0c91a80$919c76d5@telenet.be> <41C74AB9.4030005@tenforward.com> <41C7545A.9020108@att.net> <41C78775.7020906@tenforward.com> <41C78BC3.5000802@att.net> Message-ID: <41C99939.7080208@tenforward.com> Hi Don and Everyone, Thanks for the info., have a great day, John Don H wrote: > John and Gloria Cornish wrote: > >> Hi Don and Everyone, >> >> Yes, though I should have listed it as The Magic of Minerals by Olaf >> Medenbach and Harry Wilk, and translated by John Sampson White. > > > Indeed, I didn't know Olaf was so multi-talented. He is very well > known as an optical mineralogist, and he is quite a machinist who > creates the most elaborate instruments that microscope companies won't > produce any more. I need to check this book out. > > Maybe I'll show you photos of some of his work when I move to Idaho. > If you get the Mineralogical Record and have the special petrographic > microscope issue, some of his collection is featured in there. > > Don > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Wed Dec 22 08:00:16 2004 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Wed Dec 22 08:00:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Your favorite "mineral coffee table book" ? In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20041220142557.02598530@mail.aloha.net> References: <002001c4e6c4$c0c91a80$919c76d5@telenet.be> <6.1.2.0.0.20041220142557.02598530@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <41C99A10.70009@tenforward.com> Hi Kitty and Everyone, Thanks for providing some info to this thread (I'd have thought there would have been a lot more replies!). I've not seen this book, could you describe it a bit for me please. Thank you! All the very best, John Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > Minerals of the World by Alain Eid and Michel Viard > > Aloha, Kitty > > > At 08:50 AM 12/20/2004, you wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> The time for best wishes and gifts is approaching, so I wandered... >> What is your favorite "mineral coffee table book" ? >> >> Sincerely, Herwig >> >> Herwig Pelckmans >> Worldwide Mineral Collector >> Cardijnstraat 12 >> B-3530 Helchteren >> Belgium Europe >> http://www.xlizd.com >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.1 - Release Date: 12/20/2004 > > > From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 22 09:53:16 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Wed Dec 22 09:44:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] "ASBOG" References: <410-220041232253956898@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <003701c4e84f$1ed5b940$bba3490c@pete> So, Aaron (and Mark, who replied), exactly what is the ASBOG (Assoc. State Boards of Geology) test for? It's not something I'm familiar with. Does it relate to, something about becoming registered in a given state as a "certified professional geologist" or something like that? My own experience in geology has always been what you would call on the academic side of things, and I don't have much familiary with many matters of geology as it relates to civil engineering and such. Just curious! Best holiday wishes to all of you, Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Easterbrook" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 10:39 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Volunteers? > Aaron, > > Good luck with the ASBOG (Association of State Boards of Geology) test, or > as I call it Geo Trivial Pursuit. It's a hard one to pass because there is > not much specific study material out there for the test and geology is a > very broad subject area. I am re-taking the test in March. I took a very > good prep course at University of Florida (Gainesville) a couple of years > ago that was geared specifically for passing the ASBOG. I think the course > was $500 and lasted for less than a week (it was like total immersion in > all things geology). I think courses like it are starting to pop up in > other parts of the country. > > >From Another Lurker and fellow geologist, > Mark Easterbrook > > > [Original Message] > > From: Aaron Fox > > To: Rockhounds mailing list > > Date: 12/21/2004 5:13:17 AM > > Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Volunteers? > > > > So, the Rockhounds Information Page (the old home of this list at > > infodyn.com) is in drastic need of updating. See: > > > > Unfortunately, I don't have time to really do it right now. Between the > > thesis, studying for the ASBOG, and working F/T, I'm strapped. So, I'm > > asking the list for help. > > > > What I'm looking for is a few volunteers to do the following: > > 1) Check the validity of the links in the old Rockhounds Information > Page. > > If you know of a site with an updated link, submit it to the blog > > (described below). If you can search out and FIND the updated link, that > > would be great, too! > > > > 2) Add new links to the site. Keep things fresh! > > > > If a couple people are interested in helping, what I'll do is this (when > I > > get back from Scotland after New Years): > > > > 1) Set up a blog where folks can submit their updates. > > http://afox.erocs.org/ > > You can either create an account, or login as: > > USER: RHL_Guest > > Password: Email me for password. > > (you can also see my Sweden / Scotland pictures under the Sweeden > > forum, too!) > > > > 2) Try and contact Tom (if I can find him) about either us sending him an > > updated page, or pointing the old page to a new page at Drizzle. > > > > 3) Once we compile a list and I get some time, I'll generate the HTML, > > reformat, and repost. > > > > Volunteers, contact me off-list. Thanks! > > > > Aaron > > List Admin > > > > -- > > afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox > > FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your > > computer. Press any key to reboot > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at aloha.net Wed Dec 22 11:03:31 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Dec 22 10:33:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Your favorite "mineral coffee table book" ? In-Reply-To: <41C99A10.70009@tenforward.com> References: <002001c4e6c4$c0c91a80$919c76d5@telenet.be> <6.1.2.0.0.20041220142557.02598530@mail.aloha.net> <41C99A10.70009@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041222082218.0341d6d0@mail.aloha.net> Hi there, "Minerals of the World" by Alain Eid and Michel Viard is basically a picture book (but that's what a "coffee table book" is supposed to be, right?), 196 pages, 66 of which are full-page photos; facing these full-page pics are pages with (usually) 6 smaller photos. There are 22 double-page-spread pictures (the photo goes across the gutter and covers 2 facing pages). I'm not enough of an expert to tell if the text is fully accurate, but the pictures are great. There's not a lot of text. Chapters group minerals by color, with additional ones on "Gemstones and Precious Metals," and "Unusual Minerals." It's published in the US by Chartwell Books, 1997, printed in Spain, and is translated from another unspecified language (the authors' names don't look Spanish to me). ISBN # is 0-7858-0824-8. Amazon.com says they have 2 copies left. Aloha, Kitty At 06:00 AM 12/22/2004, you wrote: >Hi Kitty and Everyone, > >Thanks for providing some info to this thread (I'd have thought there >would have been a lot more replies!). I've not seen this book, could you >describe it a bit for me please. Thank you! All the very best, > >John > > >Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > >>Minerals of the World by Alain Eid and Michel Viard >> >>Aloha, Kitty >> >> >>At 08:50 AM 12/20/2004, you wrote: >> >>>Hi, >>> >>>The time for best wishes and gifts is approaching, so I wandered... >>>What is your favorite "mineral coffee table book" ? >>> >>>Sincerely, Herwig >>> >>>Herwig Pelckmans >>>Worldwide Mineral Collector >>>Cardijnstraat 12 >>>B-3530 Helchteren >>>Belgium Europe >>>http://www.xlizd.com >>> >>> >>>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>>multipart/alternative >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) >>> text/html >>>--- >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>>Subscription Services: >>>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>>No virus found in this incoming message. >>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.1 - Release Date: 12/20/2004 >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.2 - Release Date: 12/20/2004 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 From herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be Wed Dec 22 14:42:30 2004 From: herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be (herwig pelckmans) Date: Wed Dec 22 14:45:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Your favorite "mineral coffee table book" ? References: <002001c4e6c4$c0c91a80$919c76d5@telenet.be><6.1.2.0.0.20041220142557.02598530@mail.aloha.net><41C99A10.70009@tenforward.com> <6.1.2.0.0.20041222082218.0341d6d0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <024f01c4e877$852715e0$919c76d5@telenet.be> Hi John & Kitty & others, The book was first published in French in Paris (France) by Les Editions Hatier in 1995. EID is the author, VIARD the photographer. The book was also (poorly) translated in Dutch ("Mineralen van de Wereld", 1996). The pics are OK, the specimens depicted are most of the time "average collection quality". The description of the specimens is "very basic" : For example (I did not translate the Dutch text, so here's your chance to learn some Dutch ;-) : page 50: pyromorfiet. Klasse: fosfaten (Verenigde Staten) (=United States) Thus localities, when mentioned, are restricted to the country name. Too bad, because everyone could look up that pyromorphite is a phosphate, but nobody can determine for sure from the picture alone where the specimen came from ... Sometimes even that basic information is just plain wrong... Example: page 70-71: epidoot (pistaciet) Klasse: silicaten. Besides the fact that no "locality" is provided, the specimen depicted is NOT epidote, but most probably a nice cluster of well crystallized "spaghetti aragonite" with a faint blue tint, looking very similar to specimens I have seen from Laurium (Lavrion), Greece. I got my copy a few years ago for a good price (about $10 at that time), so could not resist the bargain, but I *personally* would not pay $25 for it now. Cheers, Herwig Herwig Pelckmans Worldwide Mineral Collector Cardijnstraat 12 B-3530 Helchteren Belgium Europe http://www.xlizd.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 8:03 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Your favorite "mineral coffee table book" ? > Hi there, > > "Minerals of the World" by Alain Eid and Michel Viard is basically a > picture book (but that's what a "coffee table book" is supposed to be, > right?), 196 pages, 66 of which are full-page photos; facing these > full-page pics are pages with (usually) 6 smaller photos. There are 22 > double-page-spread pictures (the photo goes across the gutter and covers 2 > facing pages). I'm not enough of an expert to tell if the text is fully > accurate, but the pictures are great. There's not a lot of text. Chapters > group minerals by color, with additional ones on "Gemstones and Precious > Metals," and "Unusual Minerals." > > It's published in the US by Chartwell Books, 1997, printed in Spain, and is > translated from another unspecified language (the authors' names don't look > Spanish to me). ISBN # is 0-7858-0824-8. Amazon.com says they have 2 > copies left. > > Aloha, Kitty > > > > > > > At 06:00 AM 12/22/2004, you wrote: > > >Hi Kitty and Everyone, > > > >Thanks for providing some info to this thread (I'd have thought there > >would have been a lot more replies!). I've not seen this book, could you > >describe it a bit for me please. Thank you! All the very best, > > > >John > > > > > >Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > > >>Minerals of the World by Alain Eid and Michel Viard > >> > >>Aloha, Kitty > >> > >> > >>At 08:50 AM 12/20/2004, you wrote: > >> > >>>Hi, > >>> > >>>The time for best wishes and gifts is approaching, so I wandered... > >>>What is your favorite "mineral coffee table book" ? > >>> > >>>Sincerely, Herwig > >>> > >>>Herwig Pelckmans > >>>Worldwide Mineral Collector > >>>Cardijnstraat 12 > >>>B-3530 Helchteren > >>>Belgium Europe > >>>http://www.xlizd.com > >>> > >>> > >>>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >>>multipart/alternative > >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) > >>> text/html > >>>--- > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >>>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >>>Subscription Services: > >>>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>-- > >>>No virus found in this incoming message. > >>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >>>Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.1 - Release Date: 12/20/2004 > >> > >> > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > >-- > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.2 - Release Date: 12/20/2004 > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From kahako at aloha.net Wed Dec 22 16:05:22 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Dec 22 15:35:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Your favorite "mineral coffee table book" ? In-Reply-To: <024f01c4e877$852715e0$919c76d5@telenet.be> References: <002001c4e6c4$c0c91a80$919c76d5@telenet.be> <6.1.2.0.0.20041220142557.02598530@mail.aloha.net> <41C99A10.70009@tenforward.com> <6.1.2.0.0.20041222082218.0341d6d0@mail.aloha.net> <024f01c4e877$852715e0$919c76d5@telenet.be> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041222135926.03423dc0@mail.aloha.net> I thought the names looked French. And I agree that the identifications and locations are quite limited. I like the book because of the large pictures. It is a joy to see visiting neighbor children or our grandnieces and grandnephews go "Ooooh" and "Aaah" over a picture of a mineral that is bigger than a person's head. Some of the kids will look at a picture and then run over to one of our cabinets and say, "It looks like this one!" Aloha, Kitty At 12:42 PM 12/22/2004, you wrote: >Hi John & Kitty & others, > >The book was first published in French in Paris (France) by Les Editions >Hatier in 1995. >EID is the author, VIARD the photographer. >The book was also (poorly) translated in Dutch ("Mineralen van de Wereld", >1996). > >The pics are OK, the specimens depicted are most of the time "average >collection quality". >The description of the specimens is "very basic" : >For example (I did not translate the Dutch text, so here's your chance to >learn some Dutch ;-) : >page 50: pyromorfiet. Klasse: fosfaten (Verenigde Staten) (=United States) > >Thus localities, when mentioned, are restricted to the country name. Too >bad, because everyone could look up that pyromorphite is a phosphate, but >nobody can determine for sure from the picture alone where the specimen came >from ... > >Sometimes even that basic information is just plain wrong... >Example: >page 70-71: epidoot (pistaciet) Klasse: silicaten. >Besides the fact that no "locality" is provided, the specimen depicted is >NOT epidote, but most probably a nice cluster of well crystallized >"spaghetti aragonite" with a faint blue tint, looking very similar to >specimens I have seen from Laurium (Lavrion), Greece. > >I got my copy a few years ago for a good price (about $10 at that time), so >could not resist the bargain, but I *personally* would not pay $25 for it >now. > >Cheers, Herwig > >Herwig Pelckmans >Worldwide Mineral Collector >Cardijnstraat 12 >B-3530 Helchteren >Belgium Europe >http://www.xlizd.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 8:03 PM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Your favorite "mineral coffee table book" ? > > > > Hi there, > > > > "Minerals of the World" by Alain Eid and Michel Viard is basically a > > picture book (but that's what a "coffee table book" is supposed to be, > > right?), 196 pages, 66 of which are full-page photos; facing these > > full-page pics are pages with (usually) 6 smaller photos. There are 22 > > double-page-spread pictures (the photo goes across the gutter and covers 2 > > facing pages). I'm not enough of an expert to tell if the text is fully > > accurate, but the pictures are great. There's not a lot of text. >Chapters > > group minerals by color, with additional ones on "Gemstones and Precious > > Metals," and "Unusual Minerals." > > > > It's published in the US by Chartwell Books, 1997, printed in Spain, and >is > > translated from another unspecified language (the authors' names don't >look > > Spanish to me). ISBN # is 0-7858-0824-8. Amazon.com says they have 2 > > copies left. > > > > Aloha, Kitty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 06:00 AM 12/22/2004, you wrote: > > > > >Hi Kitty and Everyone, > > > > > >Thanks for providing some info to this thread (I'd have thought there > > >would have been a lot more replies!). I've not seen this book, could you > > >describe it a bit for me please. Thank you! All the very best, > > > > > >John > > > > > > > > >Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > > > > >>Minerals of the World by Alain Eid and Michel Viard > > >> > > >>Aloha, Kitty > > >> > > >> > > >>At 08:50 AM 12/20/2004, you wrote: > > >> > > >>>Hi, > > >>> > > >>>The time for best wishes and gifts is approaching, so I wandered... > > >>>What is your favorite "mineral coffee table book" ? > > >>> > > >>>Sincerely, Herwig > > >>> > > >>>Herwig Pelckmans > > >>>Worldwide Mineral Collector > > >>>Cardijnstraat 12 > > >>>B-3530 Helchteren > > >>>Belgium Europe > > >>>http://www.xlizd.com > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > >>>multipart/alternative > > >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) > > >>> text/html > > >>>--- > > >>>_______________________________________________ > > >>>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > >>>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > >>>Subscription Services: > > >>>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>-- > > >>>No virus found in this incoming message. > > >>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > >>>Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.1 - Release Date: 12/20/2004 > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > >Subscription Services: > > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > >No virus found in this incoming message. > > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > >Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.2 - Release Date: 12/20/2004 > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 From TomE61 at aol.com Wed Dec 22 21:39:12 2004 From: TomE61 at aol.com (TomE61@aol.com) Date: Wed Dec 22 21:39:19 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:Volunteers for Aaron Message-ID: Hey Aaron, please just let me know what you need and I can be available to help. Unfortunately, it won't be until after the holidays (January 5, 2005 at the earliest). I'm especially good with Internet research as well as writing and editing. I've spent a fair amount of time editing and illustrating manuals for children who are learning English as a 2nd language. And if THAT doesn't quality me for SOMETHING, then I don't know what does ! Seriously, just shout and I'll do what I can to help. Happy, safe and satisfying holidays to you Aaron, and all my colleagues at Rockhounds. Warmest Regards, Tom Russell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From TomE61 at aol.com Wed Dec 22 21:58:14 2004 From: TomE61 at aol.com (TomE61@aol.com) Date: Wed Dec 22 21:58:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rocks for Kids Message-ID: <1e6.315028aa.2efbb876@aol.com> I recall a thread not too long ago where someone asked for donations of rocks for kids. I believe it was Kitty from Hawaii, but I am not certain. Unfortunately, I don't have the time right now to search the archives, so if it IS Kitty, then just let me know. If anyone else knows who it is, then please forward that as well. Here's the reason. A very famous garnet location, not far from NYC, has recently been worked and has literally tons of material for picking and collecting. A lot of the garnets are in matrix, but easily removed, and there are a good deal of loose items to pick up. On our last trip there, right before Thanksgiving, I almost got a hernia trying to help my cousin carry out her bags full of garnets. And because of the wintry weather, we were only there for a couple of hours. I assume NO one is going to visit that place while Connecticut is buried under snow. And trust me, they will be. SO, if it IS Kitty, please let me know and remind me as it gets closer to spring, when we go back, and I would be more than happy to collect a good sampling for you to pass along to your kiddies. The garnets, by the way, are not necessarily gem quality, but they are somewhat large (much larger than the stuff you might get from sluicing in commercial mines), in varied shapes and even in the matrix, they make a stunning presentation. Regards, Tom Russell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at aloha.net Wed Dec 22 23:44:40 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Dec 22 23:16:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rocks for Kids In-Reply-To: <1e6.315028aa.2efbb876@aol.com> References: <1e6.315028aa.2efbb876@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041222211259.025bee10@mail.aloha.net> Hi Tom and List, Yes, the Rocks for Kids thread was me, and although my next presentation to schools is in January, I do 2 or 3 a year, so more stuff is always appreciated. The garnets sound great! The reason I'm replying to the list is that I want to remind everyone that kids in Hawaii don't get to see things like garnets---or anything but sand and lava, for the most part. So if anyone wants to contribute anything, it will always be appreciated. I'll pay postage and will send something in return---lava, sand, macadamia nuts, whatever. To those who have already contributed and not received the "something in return," please forgive the delay...it will go out after Christmas. Thanks, Tom. I'll remind you later, towards spring. Aloha, Kitty At 07:58 PM 12/22/2004, you wrote: >I recall a thread not too long ago where someone asked for donations of rocks >for kids. I believe it was Kitty from Hawaii, but I am not certain. > >Unfortunately, I don't have the time right now to search the archives, so if >it IS Kitty, then just let me know. If anyone else knows who it is, then >please forward that as well. > > >Here's the reason. A very famous garnet location, not far from NYC, has >recently been worked and has literally tons of material for picking and >collecting. A lot of the garnets are in matrix, but easily removed, and >there are a >good deal of loose items to pick up. On our last trip there, right before >Thanksgiving, I almost got a hernia trying to help my cousin carry out her >bags full >of garnets. And because of the wintry weather, we were only there for a >couple of hours. > >I assume NO one is going to visit that place while Connecticut is buried >under snow. And trust me, they will be. > >SO, if it IS Kitty, please let me know and remind me as it gets closer to >spring, when we go back, and I would be more than happy to collect a good >sampling for you to pass along to your kiddies. > >The garnets, by the way, are not necessarily gem quality, but they are >somewhat large (much larger than the stuff you might get from sluicing in >commercial >mines), in varied shapes and even in the matrix, they make a stunning >presentation. > > >Regards, >Tom Russell > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 From kahako at aloha.net Thu Dec 23 01:00:24 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Dec 23 00:30:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] funny OT news item Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041222215056.025bc310@mail.aloha.net> Hi all, This is totally off topic, but funny enough to hopefully bring a smile to anyone stressed out with holiday prep: This is a genuine true news story out of Honolulu. Bill and I read it in newspapers and saw it on TV. A young male prisoner escaped from the minimum security prison on Oahu a couple of days ago. He was serving a 90 day misdemeanor sentence for beating up his girlfriend. He was in the prison exercise area, wearing long pants but no shirt, when he escaped by climbing over a fence with razor-wire on top...and his pants were found hanging from the fence. Not just his pants, but also his boxer shorts. Shortly after the escape, several witnesses reported seeing a nude man running across the busy highway near the prison, holding what appeared to be a discarded white-and-red paper bag like those from Burger King over his...lower front side. A little while later, witnesses saw the man trotting down a street "wearing" a cardboard box so it would function as...well, BOXer shorts! The man was captured yesterday at his girlfriend's home. He had only 38 days to go on his misdemeanor sentence, but now faces 5 years for escape. Aloha, Kitty -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 23 06:40:04 2004 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Thu Dec 23 06:40:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rocks for Kids In-Reply-To: <1e6.315028aa.2efbb876@aol.com> Message-ID: <20041223144004.36051.qmail@web51001.mail.yahoo.com> Is this Roxbury, CT? I recall collecting there over 50 years ago. THey were dark red, opaque, in a very light tan micaceous matrix- nice contrast. Jim Daly --- TomE61@aol.com wrote: > > Here's the reason. A very famous garnet location, > not far from NYC, has > recently been worked and has literally tons of > material for picking and > collecting. A lot of the garnets are in matrix, but > easily removed, and there are a > good deal of loose items to pick up. On our last > trip there, right before > Thanksgiving, I almost got a hernia trying to help > my cousin carry out her bags full > of garnets. And because of the wintry weather, we > were only there for a > couple of hours. > > I assume NO one is going to visit that place while > Connecticut is buried > under snow. And trust me, they will be. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com From johnjold at comcast.net Thu Dec 23 07:23:23 2004 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Thu Dec 23 07:23:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rocks for Kids In-Reply-To: <20041223144004.36051.qmail@web51001.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041223144004.36051.qmail@web51001.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9591D96E-54F6-11D9-A970-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> This is not the official web site but does have a good map and contact information. http://www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com/jhbnyc/trips/roxbury.htm On Dec 23, 2004, at 9:40 AM, Jim Daly wrote: > Is this Roxbury, CT? I recall collecting there over 50 > years ago. THey were dark red, opaque, in a very light > tan micaceous matrix- nice contrast. > Jim Daly > --- TomE61@aol.com wrote: > > >> >> Here's the reason. A very famous garnet location, >> not far from NYC, has >> recently been worked and has literally tons of >> material for picking and >> collecting. A lot of the garnets are in matrix, but >> easily removed, and there are a >> good deal of loose items to pick up. On our last >> trip there, right before >> Thanksgiving, I almost got a hernia trying to help >> my cousin carry out her bags full >> of garnets. And because of the wintry weather, we >> were only there for a >> couple of hours. >> >> I assume NO one is going to visit that place while >> Connecticut is buried >> under snow. And trust me, they will be. >> > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! > http://my.yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From LarryRush at worldnet.att.net Thu Dec 23 08:00:07 2004 From: LarryRush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Thu Dec 23 07:59:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rocks for Kids References: <20041223144004.36051.qmail@web51001.mail.yahoo.com> <9591D96E-54F6-11D9-A970-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> Message-ID: <004b01c4e908$7ac111a0$d18b4c0c@fekib> The Roxbury garnet mine in Connecticut has not been "worked" commercially for over 60 years, but it is heavily visited and is still a good producer. As long as the collectors treat the location with respect, the owner will continue to keep it available. He asks that collectors park at the end of the driveway, and pay a minimal parking fee to the tenant at the house near the entrance. This is a good spot for beginners and kids, since the garnets are plentiful. However, the quarry walls are steep and dangerous, and it is not a place for unsupervised children. If youngsters stick to the dumps they will be well rewarded. BTW, the person looking for donations for school kids via a web site was me. I am disappointed that only 2 members volunteered to be part of a posting designed to serve as a get-together for donor and teachers. consequently, I am giving up on the idea. Maybe the self-satisfaction of live teaching does not extend to donations via the web!! Good collecting.........Larry Rush ----- Original Message ----- From: John Joldersma To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 10:23 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Rocks for Kids This is not the official web site but does have a good map and contact information. http://www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com/jhbnyc/trips/roxbury.htm On Dec 23, 2004, at 9:40 AM, Jim Daly wrote: > Is this Roxbury, CT? I recall collecting there over 50 > years ago. THey were dark red, opaque, in a very light > tan micaceous matrix- nice contrast. > Jim Daly > --- TomE61@aol.com wrote: > > >> >> Here's the reason. A very famous garnet location, >> not far from NYC, has >> recently been worked and has literally tons of >> material for picking and >> collecting. A lot of the garnets are in matrix, but >> easily removed, and there are a >> good deal of loose items to pick up. On our last >> trip there, right before >> Thanksgiving, I almost got a hernia trying to help >> my cousin carry out her bags full >> of garnets. And because of the wintry weather, we >> were only there for a >> couple of hours. >> >> I assume NO one is going to visit that place while >> Connecticut is buried >> under snow. And trust me, they will be. >> > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! > http://my.yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From shm at tapnet.net Thu Dec 23 08:23:31 2004 From: shm at tapnet.net (SHM) Date: Thu Dec 23 08:23:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] funny OT news item In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20041222215056.025bc310@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <000701c4e90b$bea9af00$b5e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Another candidate for the Darwin Awards . . . Cheers- Earl -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill Heacox Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 4:00 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] funny OT news item Hi all, This is totally off topic, but funny enough to hopefully bring a smile to anyone stressed out with holiday prep: This is a genuine true news story out of Honolulu. Bill and I read it in newspapers and saw it on TV. A young male prisoner escaped from the minimum security prison on Oahu a couple of days ago. He was serving a 90 day misdemeanor sentence for beating up his girlfriend. He was in the prison exercise area, wearing long pants but no shirt, when he escaped by climbing over a fence with razor-wire on top...and his pants were found hanging from the fence. Not just his pants, but also his boxer shorts. Shortly after the escape, several witnesses reported seeing a nude man running across the busy highway near the prison, holding what appeared to be a discarded white-and-red paper bag like those from Burger King over his...lower front side. A little while later, witnesses saw the man trotting down a street "wearing" a cardboard box so it would function as...well, BOXer shorts! The man was captured yesterday at his girlfriend's home. He had only 38 days to go on his misdemeanor sentence, but now faces 5 years for escape. Aloha, Kitty -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Thu Dec 23 08:33:17 2004 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Thu Dec 23 08:33:25 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Your favorite "mineral coffee table book" ? In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20041222135926.03423dc0@mail.aloha.net> References: <002001c4e6c4$c0c91a80$919c76d5@telenet.be> <6.1.2.0.0.20041220142557.02598530@mail.aloha.net> <41C99A10.70009@tenforward.com> <6.1.2.0.0.20041222082218.0341d6d0@mail.aloha.net> <024f01c4e877$852715e0$919c76d5@telenet.be> <6.1.2.0.0.20041222135926.03423dc0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <41CAF34D.3080905@tenforward.com> Hi Herwig, Kitty and Everyone, Thanks much for the comments, I appreciate it. Say Herwig, your favorites? Have fantastic Holidays Everyone! All the very best, John Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > I thought the names looked French. And I agree that the > identifications and locations are quite limited. > > I like the book because of the large pictures. It is a joy to see > visiting neighbor children or our grandnieces and grandnephews go > "Ooooh" and "Aaah" over a picture of a mineral that is bigger than a > person's head. Some of the kids will look at a picture and then run > over to one of our cabinets and say, "It looks like this one!" > > Aloha, Kitty > > At 12:42 PM 12/22/2004, you wrote: > >> Hi John & Kitty & others, >> >> The book was first published in French in Paris (France) by Les Editions >> Hatier in 1995. >> EID is the author, VIARD the photographer. >> The book was also (poorly) translated in Dutch ("Mineralen van de >> Wereld", >> 1996). >> >> The pics are OK, the specimens depicted are most of the time "average >> collection quality". >> The description of the specimens is "very basic" : >> For example (I did not translate the Dutch text, so here's your >> chance to >> learn some Dutch ;-) : >> page 50: pyromorfiet. Klasse: fosfaten (Verenigde Staten) (=United >> States) >> >> Thus localities, when mentioned, are restricted to the country name. Too >> bad, because everyone could look up that pyromorphite is a phosphate, >> but >> nobody can determine for sure from the picture alone where the >> specimen came >> from ... >> >> Sometimes even that basic information is just plain wrong... >> Example: >> page 70-71: epidoot (pistaciet) Klasse: silicaten. >> Besides the fact that no "locality" is provided, the specimen >> depicted is >> NOT epidote, but most probably a nice cluster of well crystallized >> "spaghetti aragonite" with a faint blue tint, looking very similar to >> specimens I have seen from Laurium (Lavrion), Greece. >> >> I got my copy a few years ago for a good price (about $10 at that >> time), so >> could not resist the bargain, but I *personally* would not pay $25 >> for it >> now. >> >> Cheers, Herwig >> >> Herwig Pelckmans >> Worldwide Mineral Collector >> Cardijnstraat 12 >> B-3530 Helchteren >> Belgium Europe >> http://www.xlizd.com >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 8:03 PM >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Your favorite "mineral coffee table book" ? >> >> >> > Hi there, >> > >> > "Minerals of the World" by Alain Eid and Michel Viard is basically a >> > picture book (but that's what a "coffee table book" is supposed to be, >> > right?), 196 pages, 66 of which are full-page photos; facing these >> > full-page pics are pages with (usually) 6 smaller photos. There >> are 22 >> > double-page-spread pictures (the photo goes across the gutter and >> covers 2 >> > facing pages). I'm not enough of an expert to tell if the text is >> fully >> > accurate, but the pictures are great. There's not a lot of text. >> Chapters >> > group minerals by color, with additional ones on "Gemstones and >> Precious >> > Metals," and "Unusual Minerals." >> > >> > It's published in the US by Chartwell Books, 1997, printed in >> Spain, and >> is >> > translated from another unspecified language (the authors' names don't >> look >> > Spanish to me). ISBN # is 0-7858-0824-8. Amazon.com says they have 2 >> > copies left. >> > >> > Aloha, Kitty >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > At 06:00 AM 12/22/2004, you wrote: >> > >> > >Hi Kitty and Everyone, >> > > >> > >Thanks for providing some info to this thread (I'd have thought there >> > >would have been a lot more replies!). I've not seen this book, >> could you >> > >describe it a bit for me please. Thank you! All the very best, >> > > >> > >John >> > > >> > > >> > >Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: >> > > >> > >>Minerals of the World by Alain Eid and Michel Viard >> > >> >> > >>Aloha, Kitty >> > >> >> > >> >> > >>At 08:50 AM 12/20/2004, you wrote: >> > >> >> > >>>Hi, >> > >>> >> > >>>The time for best wishes and gifts is approaching, so I wandered... >> > >>>What is your favorite "mineral coffee table book" ? >> > >>> >> > >>>Sincerely, Herwig >> > >>> >> > >>>Herwig Pelckmans >> > >>>Worldwide Mineral Collector >> > >>>Cardijnstraat 12 >> > >>>B-3530 Helchteren >> > >>>Belgium Europe >> > >>>http://www.xlizd.com >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> > >>>multipart/alternative >> > >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> > >>> text/html >> > >>>--- >> > >>>_______________________________________________ >> > >>>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> > >>>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> > >>>Subscription Services: >> > >>>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>>-- >> > >>>No virus found in this incoming message. >> > >>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> > >>>Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.1 - Release Date: >> 12/20/2004 >> > >> >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > >_______________________________________________ >> > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> > >Subscription Services: >> > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >-- >> > >No virus found in this incoming message. >> > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> > >Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.2 - Release Date: 12/20/2004 >> > >> > >> > -- >> > No virus found in this outgoing message. >> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> > Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> > Subscription Services: >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 > > > From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Thu Dec 23 09:01:20 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Thu Dec 23 08:52:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] funny OT news item References: <000701c4e90b$bea9af00$b5e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <001301c4e911$079d9460$9ca6490c@pete> Oh, these online shorthand buzzword acronyms, that I can never remember--good story, but now, if I can only figure out what "OT" means... overtime?,... AHA! It's Off Topic! I can rest easy now. Best pre-Christmas wishes, to all the rockhound friends out there on the internet. We finally got out first dose of really cold weather here in Denver (are you jealous, Earl?), it's about 4 degrees F right now, with a few inches of snow from yesterday and the day before, very light snow still falling. Back on about Monday, it was 65 degrees here in Wheat Ridge! P.S., (now here's a really OT thought, not to mention treading lightly on the bounds of controversy, but what the heck), a friend told me a story the other day about someone in a government office here in Denver, being reprimanded by their boss for saying "merry Christmas" to co-workers; not to the public, but just to co-workers. Because it's "politically incorrect" to refer to Christmas, it being a religious observance and all that and risking offending people who have different or no religous beliefs; the correct thing being to say "happy holidays". (You see, I noticed I used the term "pre-Christmas" in my paragraph above.) So, anyway, all good wishes to everyone on this List, for whatever and however you think of this holiday season, religious of any sort or spiritual or secular or anything in between. Best wishes of peace, joy, and love in the world and in your own worlds, to everyone, and if it's cold stay inside and learn good things about your rocks and minerals, if it's warm go out collecting, and think about how you can make plans to come to Denver next Sep. 10 through 18 for our "Agate and Cryptocrystalline Quartz" mineral symposium plus the Denver Mineral Show! How in the world do you think all those interesting growth patterns in agates REALLY form, anyway? happy holidays, Pete Modreski, Wheat Ridge, Colorado, USA, Planet Earth ----- Original Message ----- From: "SHM" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 9:23 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] funny OT news item > Another candidate for the Darwin Awards . . . > > Cheers- Earl > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill > Heacox > Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 4:00 AM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] funny OT news item > > Hi all, > > This is totally off topic, but funny enough to hopefully bring a smile to > anyone stressed out with holiday prep: > From tam2819 at cox.net Thu Dec 23 09:13:58 2004 From: tam2819 at cox.net (T.A.Masters) Date: Thu Dec 23 09:14:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] funny OT news item References: <000701c4e90b$bea9af00$b5e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> <001301c4e911$079d9460$9ca6490c@pete> Message-ID: <41CAFCD6.1040605@cox.net> Pete, et al, The slightly OT comments lately have been a fresh breath to the list. Nice to see no grousing. Hopefully all are feeling Joy, and Tranquility. The requests for, and the offers of sharing are wonderful, brings out the best on this list. About "PC" well for every correction, there is an over correction. I hope this one is short lived and we can all get back to sharing OUR season's joy with all on the list, no matter what it may be. How did we ever get so far off the path? I remember as a very young child, a teacher asking me in front of the whole class, "So what Holidays are you taking off this year?" My parent's were of different persuasions. I felt humiliated. Just so long as anyone believes theirs is the only path, we will continue to have issues of "PC." I love this and similar lists, we share common interests and form friendships outside of Race and/or Religion. How wonderful. Peace and Joy to all, and yes have a very Merry Christmas, and a Healthy New Year. Terrie PS, my parent's enjoyed 62 years of marriage, and lie side by side with the Symbol of their Religion on their headstone, and yes there was a complaint. From bobl at peaktopeak.com Thu Dec 23 09:45:49 2004 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Thu Dec 23 09:45:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rocks for Kids In-Reply-To: <004b01c4e908$7ac111a0$d18b4c0c@fekib> Message-ID: Hi Larry, If I remember correctly, you were asking for people who could donate "regularly". (Maybe that wasn't the word but that's how I read it.) I, as I'm sure most people on this list, could donate once a year, but I wouldn't categorize that as "regularly". Maybe that is why others didn't sign up. Regards, Bob Loeffler Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) http://www.peaktopeak.com/njeffco/index.php Dealer Chairman and Webmaster Denver Gem and Mineral Show http://www.denvermineralshow.com Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: http://www.peaktopeak.com/colorado/index.php -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Lawrence Rush Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 9:00 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Rocks for Kids The Roxbury garnet mine in Connecticut has not been "worked" commercially for over 60 years, but it is heavily visited and is still a good producer. As long as the collectors treat the location with respect, the owner will continue to keep it available. He asks that collectors park at the end of the driveway, and pay a minimal parking fee to the tenant at the house near the entrance. This is a good spot for beginners and kids, since the garnets are plentiful. However, the quarry walls are steep and dangerous, and it is not a place for unsupervised children. If youngsters stick to the dumps they will be well rewarded. BTW, the person looking for donations for school kids via a web site was me. I am disappointed that only 2 members volunteered to be part of a posting designed to serve as a get-together for donor and teachers. consequently, I am giving up on the idea. Maybe the self-satisfaction of live teaching does not extend to donations via the web!! Good collecting.........Larry Rush From kahako at aloha.net Thu Dec 23 11:05:38 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Dec 23 10:35:31 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rocks for Kids In-Reply-To: <004b01c4e908$7ac111a0$d18b4c0c@fekib> References: <20041223144004.36051.qmail@web51001.mail.yahoo.com> <9591D96E-54F6-11D9-A970-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> <004b01c4e908$7ac111a0$d18b4c0c@fekib> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041223082420.0341e460@mail.aloha.net> I'm sorry if there was confusion about the "Rocks for Kids" request. Mine was for the sessions I do for schools here in Hawaii where kids only have sand and lava to look at. Larry's was for a continuing web site. I think Larry's idea is a great one, but I didn't respond because I have so little to contribute (sand and lava). I will add, however, that the "self-satisfaction of live teaching" is strongly affected by lack of time and a usually frustrating work situation. Public school teachers often "burn out" after a few years. In many districts parents and community organizations have to donate basic supplies like paper and notebooks. Many times teachers still have to buy supplies and even books out of their own pocket. At the time I retired I taught 6 classes a day in 4 different subjects, with one 10-minute recess in the morning, and 30 minutes for lunch; that 30 minutes included 15 minutes of supervision duty, so the remaining 15 minutes was all I had to eat lunch and use the restroom. After the last class of the day I had 45 minutes of paid "preparation" time in which to prepare lessons, grade papers, complete government forms and paperwork, confer with administration and other teachers regarding problems, call or meet with parents, give individual tutoring to kids who came in for help, etc., etc., etc. I always---every day---either stayed late at school until 5 or 6pm, took work home to complete, or came in early at 7am to prepare---sometimes all three! In addition each teacher has to do some extra things on a regular basis, like be a class advisor and/or sponsor a club, and these duties include after school and weekend time chaperoning dances, conducting car washes and other fund-raisers, coaching sports, directing plays, entering science fairs and speech contests, etc., etc., etc. Yes, it would be nice if teachers had time to participate in web site get-togethers, but most of them have trouble finding time to go to the bathroom! I was a teacher for 35 years. The joy was the children. Everything else was frustration and overwork to the point of at times being hellish. And I didn't even teach in a large inner city school. Sorry for the rant. Aloha, Kitty At 06:00 AM 12/23/2004, Larry Rush wrote: > >BTW, the person looking for donations for school kids via a web site was >me. I am disappointed that only 2 members volunteered to be part of a >posting designed to serve as a get-together for donor and teachers. >consequently, I am giving up on the idea. Maybe the self-satisfaction of >live teaching does not extend to donations via the web!! > >Good collecting.........Larry Rush -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Thu Dec 23 10:57:55 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Dec 23 10:58:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rocks for Kids In-Reply-To: <004b01c4e908$7ac111a0$d18b4c0c@fekib> Message-ID: <200412231858.iBNIw2pg011666@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Larry guided me there a number of years ago and we had a great time! Finding good specimens there is about as easy as shooting ducks in a barrel (or diving for tofu at the co-op if you are of the vegan mold). GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Lawrence Rush > Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 10:00 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Rocks for Kids > > The Roxbury garnet mine in Connecticut has not been "worked" > commercially for over 60 years, but it is heavily visited.... > > Good collecting.........Larry Rush From morningstar at att.net Thu Dec 23 11:14:38 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Thu Dec 23 11:13:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rocks for Kids In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41CB191E.5000204@att.net> > BTW, the person looking for donations for school kids via a web site was me. > I am disappointed that only 2 members volunteered to be part of a posting > designed to serve as a get-together for donor and teachers. consequently, I > am giving up on the idea. Maybe the self-satisfaction of live teaching does > not extend to donations via the web!! Larry, Please don't take it that way at all. I know very few people who have enough material to potentially supply all the requests that would come through a web page like that. I myself don't have much left that I am able to give away, and when that's gone, I don't know when I'll have more. If possible, I would supply every man, woman, and child who wanted teaching material with all they could carry. But I can't. It was a very good and generous idea. I just think people have enough outlets for the material they have. Warm regards, Don From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Thu Dec 23 11:24:23 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Thu Dec 23 11:24:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] locality photos in the IL- KY fluorspar district Message-ID: <004101c4e925$02c149a0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I have been busy putting photos of mineral localities on the www.mindat.org web site. One of the biggest areas is the Illinois - Kentucky fluorspar district. Note an asterisk "*" indicates I have added mineral photos from these mines on the web site as well. If you are buried under snow and ice like I am, warm up a little by looking at some mineral locality photos. Alan Illinois *Annabel Lee mine (lots of underground photos, with many more to be added) *Cleveland mine - Hastie property *Conn's mine Deardorff mine dump Green - Defender mine - Hastie property *Hastie Quarry Henson mine *Lead mine (Lead adit) *Minerva No. 1 mine *Oxford Cut - Hastie property Oxford No. 5 (soon) Victory mine - most via Hastie property Kentucky Columbia mine *Hickory Cane mine *Hutson mine *Lafayette mine Mico mine *Old Jim mine Pygmy mine --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Thu Dec 23 11:33:44 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Thu Dec 23 11:33:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] locality photos - part 2 Message-ID: <004801c4e926$50f5c690$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> In addition to the Illinois - Kentucky fluorspar district, I've added photos of these localities on the www.mindat.org web site: Arkansas Baroid mine Christy Vanadium mine Cove Creek (soon) Colorado Atlantic Cable mine Hartsel barite locality Idarado mine Madonna mine National Belle mine Rico Boy mine Stoneham barite locality Indiana Corydon Quarry (+ minerals) SR 37 Road Cut (+ minerals) Kentucky Halls Gap (+ minerals) Irvington Quarry (+ minerals) Nally-Gibson Georgetown Quarry Minerals only: Lexington Quarry Co. Catnip Hill mine; Muldraugh dome / KY 1638 road cut Maine Mt. Mica Tourmaline mine I recommend that others who have mineral locality photos should add them! And let us know!!! Alan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From LarryRush at worldnet.att.net Thu Dec 23 12:44:44 2004 From: LarryRush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Thu Dec 23 12:44:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ashes into diamonds! References: Message-ID: <003a01c4e930$5ace7b80$248a4c0c@fekib> There have been several news articles recently about a firm that is converting cremation ashes into diamonds via heat and pressure (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2209799.stm) (among others). For about $4000 US, LifeGem Memorials will create the diamonds from the purified carbon of a loved ones ashes, which takes about 16 weeks in a special pressurized furnace. This is not only scientifically interesting, but an irresistible source of puns! Now, there have got to be some good lines out there among you gem lovers about this; for example: Yes, that's Mabel on my finger....she always was a gem of a girl! or: Harry always said my mineral collection took up too much room, and now I can carry it (and him) around my neck! OK....poor examples, but I know you can do better. How about it??? Larry Rush --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Thu Dec 23 13:31:42 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Thu Dec 23 13:31:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rocks for Kids References: <41CB191E.5000204@att.net> Message-ID: <008c01c4e936$cb867930$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I give stuff away -- but sporadically. It depends on what I have and how much time I can put in on it. Usually my give away mode kicks in when I reach a critical mass, i.e. have too much stuff around the garage, basement, picnic table, etc. Also depends on when I get a request. I don't seek people, but they seem to find me! While I could use a web site to post my give-away stuff, it would only be during my "spring cleaning moments" which can occur anytime of the year. Alan >> BTW, the person looking for donations for school kids via a web site was >> me. >> I am disappointed that only 2 members volunteered to be part of a >> posting >> designed to serve as a get-together for donor and teachers. consequently, >> I >> am giving up on the idea. Maybe the self-satisfaction of live teaching >> does >> not extend to donations via the web!! From herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be Thu Dec 23 13:57:26 2004 From: herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be (herwig pelckmans) Date: Thu Dec 23 14:00:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Your favorite "mineral coffee table book" ? References: <002001c4e6c4$c0c91a80$919c76d5@telenet.be> <6.1.2.0.0.20041220142557.02598530@mail.aloha.net> <41C99A10.70009@tenforward.com> <6.1.2.0.0.20041222082218.0341d6d0@mail.aloha.net> <024f01c4e877$852715e0$919c76d5@telenet.be><6.1.2.0.0.20041222135926.03423dc0@mail.aloha.net> <41CAF34D.3080905@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <035301c4e93a$63cbeba0$919c76d5@telenet.be> John & list, One of my favorites is also one of my first books of that kind on minerals. Even though that book is almost 40 years old now, I still treasure it... Why (the obvious question) ? Well, in short : great pics (Nelly Bariand does know how to capture minerals on paper), excellent and beautiful specimens, little text (but no nonsense, Pierre Bariand does know "his rocks"), and not only pics of large crystals but also multiple pics of micromounts. The colors of the pics are VERY close to the natural colors of the specimens, and that REALLY makes the uraniferous minerals pop out! You can almost feel their radiation! ;-) The book is a bit smaller than average, so it will also fit on a smaller coffee table... Only 128 pages, "far too few" will also be your feeling while paging through it! It must have been very popular at that time, because it was not only translated from the original French version into German, but probably also into Brittish English and American English... At least that's what I think they did, for why else would the same book have two different titles (title depends on where it was printed : London or NY) ? Finally, the titles of the book? Let's see how fast our list members can find them all !! Cheers, Herwig Herwig Pelckmans Worldwide Mineral Collector Cardijnstraat 12 B-3530 Helchteren Belgium Europe http://www.xlizd.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John and Gloria Cornish" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Your favorite "mineral coffee table book" ? > Hi Herwig, Kitty and Everyone, > > Thanks much for the comments, I appreciate it. Say Herwig, your favorites? > > Have fantastic Holidays Everyone! All the very best, > > John From william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu Thu Dec 23 14:09:09 2004 From: william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu (William Cordua) Date: Thu Dec 23 14:09:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ashes into diamonds! In-Reply-To: <003a01c4e930$5ace7b80$248a4c0c@fekib> Message-ID: on 12/23/04 2:44 PM, Lawrence Rush at LarryRush@worldnet.att.net wrote: > There have been several news articles recently about a firm that is converting > cremation ashes into diamonds via heat and pressure > (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2209799.stm) (among others). > > For about $4000 US, LifeGem Memorials will create the diamonds from the > purified carbon of a loved ones ashes, which takes about 16 weeks in a special > pressurized furnace. This is not only scientifically interesting, but an > irresistible source of puns! > > Now, there have got to be some good lines out there among you gem lovers about > this; for example: > > Yes, that's Mabel on my finger....she always was a gem of a girl! > > or: Harry always said my mineral collection took up too much room, and now I > can carry it (and him) around my neck! > > OK....poor examples, but I know you can do better. How about it??? > > Larry Rush > > "Yes, I know it's only graphite, but I could only afford $2,000." And a very healthy, happy and merry - no matter what you celebrate this time of year. Dr. Bill From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Thu Dec 23 14:10:07 2004 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Thu Dec 23 14:10:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ashes into diamonds! In-Reply-To: <003a01c4e930$5ace7b80$248a4c0c@fekib> References: <003a01c4e930$5ace7b80$248a4c0c@fekib> Message-ID: <41CB423F.1050701@tenforward.com> Hi Larry and Everyone, These folks have been around for awhile now. When I first read of them, they were focusing their marketing on creating blue diamonds from a loved ones (human or animal) remains. If you go their site... http://www.lifegem.com/ ...or read their literature, you'll now find that the blue is no longer mentioned. From talking with their representatives, it was learned that blue diamonds were much more difficult to conceive of a quality acceptable to their clients. To combat this, the company is now focusing on the more successfully/consistently created high quality orange and yellow colors. Additionally, the colors of the orange and the yellow are much more saturated then was the blue, all were unique. I discuss this topic while relating how common diamonds are in comparison to other precious gem stones (i.e., diamonds are so common that each one of us can be made into one!). A fascinating scenario of our times! All the very best everyone, take care, John Lawrence Rush wrote: >There have been several news articles recently about a firm that is converting cremation ashes into diamonds via heat and pressure (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2209799.stm) (among others). > >For about $4000 US, LifeGem Memorials will create the diamonds from the purified carbon of a loved ones ashes, which takes about 16 weeks in a special pressurized furnace. This is not only scientifically interesting, but an irresistible source of puns! > >Now, there have got to be some good lines out there among you gem lovers about this; for example: > >Yes, that's Mabel on my finger....she always was a gem of a girl! > >or: Harry always said my mineral collection took up too much room, and now I can carry it (and him) around my neck! > >OK....poor examples, but I know you can do better. How about it??? > >Larry Rush > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From jonee at epix.net Thu Dec 23 14:17:42 2004 From: jonee at epix.net (E. L. Jones) Date: Thu Dec 23 14:17:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rocks for Kids In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20041222211259.025bee10@mail.aloha.net> References: <1e6.315028aa.2efbb876@aol.com> <6.1.2.0.0.20041222211259.025bee10@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <41CB4406.8050803@epix.net> Ok Kitty, I have full intentions of sorting some things over the next several weeks. Do you have a fluorscent interest. I have a lot of Franklin material. I have several fossil locations from PA and Virgina What size items do you seek? Thumbnails or cabnet size for display, or? I have little that is museum quality but a fair amount of items that are illustrative of geological concepts. Rocks from the east coast get heavy(expensive) quickly I don't want to send you what you don't need. I need a a mailing address. Elton Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > Hi Tom and List, > > Yes, the Rocks for Kids thread was me, and although my next > presentation to schools is in January, I do 2 or 3 a year, so more > stuff is always appreciated. The garnets sound great! The reason I'm > replying to the list is that I want to remind everyone that kids in > Hawaii don't get to see things like garnets---or anything but sand and > lava, for the most part. So if anyone wants to contribute anything, > it will always be appreciated. I'll pay postage and will send > something in return---lava, sand, macadamia nuts, whatever. > > To those who have already contributed and not received the "something > in return," please forgive the delay...it will go out after Christmas. > > Thanks, Tom. I'll remind you later, towards spring. > > Aloha, Kitty > > At 07:58 PM 12/22/2004, you wrote: > > >> I recall a thread not too long ago where someone asked for donations >> of rocks >> for kids. I believe it was Kitty from Hawaii, but I am not certain. >> >> Unfortunately, I don't have the time right now to search the >> archives, so if >> it IS Kitty, then just let me know. If anyone else knows who it is, >> then >> please forward that as well. >> >> >> Here's the reason. A very famous garnet location, not far from NYC, has >> recently been worked and has literally tons of material for picking and >> collecting. A lot of the garnets are in matrix, but easily removed, >> and there are a >> good deal of loose items to pick up. On our last trip there, right >> before >> Thanksgiving, I almost got a hernia trying to help my cousin carry >> out her bags full >> of garnets. And because of the wintry weather, we were only there for a >> couple of hours. >> >> I assume NO one is going to visit that place while Connecticut is buried >> under snow. And trust me, they will be. >> >> SO, if it IS Kitty, please let me know and remind me as it gets >> closer to >> spring, when we go back, and I would be more than happy to collect a >> good >> sampling for you to pass along to your kiddies. >> >> The garnets, by the way, are not necessarily gem quality, but they are >> somewhat large (much larger than the stuff you might get from >> sluicing in commercial >> mines), in varied shapes and even in the matrix, they make a stunning >> presentation. >> >> >> Regards, >> Tom Russell >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 > > > From jonee at epix.net Thu Dec 23 14:28:54 2004 From: jonee at epix.net (E. L. Jones) Date: Thu Dec 23 14:28:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sturmanite/Laumontite/Torbernite In-Reply-To: <121420042209.8242.41BF648F00047B7000002032216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <121420042209.8242.41BF648F00047B7000002032216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <41CB46A6.6070407@epix.net> Thank you Pete, for the clarification re Radioactives and "meta". I had always assumed that the "meta" designation was owing to the decay/daughter products in the crystal matrix. Never occured that it was related to hydration. One learns something new everyday. Elton pjmodreski@att.net wrote: >Regarding these minerals... >(snip) >But for torbernite and the related uranyl minerals there is a slight difference in the crystal structure of the less hydrated forms; for example, in torbernite (12 H2O) vs. metatorbernite (8 H2O), though both are tetragonal, the former belongs to Point Group 4/m 2/m 2/m and Space Group P4/nnc, whereas metatorbernite is the slightly less symmetrical Point Group 4/m and Space Group P4/n . Zeunerite and metazeunerite, and others, are analogous (the paper cited below mentions that there are 40 such known uranyl arsenates and phosphates, including the most common, autunite and meta-autunite. So that's why the meta- forms are considered separate mineral species. > >Pete Modreski > > From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Thu Dec 23 14:34:46 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Dec 23 14:35:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ashes into diamonds! In-Reply-To: <41CB423F.1050701@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <200412232235.iBNMYxgj022182@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Which is why I got my sweetie, now my betrothed (!), a cut solid black opal as a betrothal token rather than a hunk 'o carbon. (And, yes, I did get down on "bended knee" to make the proposal. Now, being the gal that she is, if she had a choice of my non-mortal remains as a cut diamond -or- a diamond crystal, well, I think the crystal would win out! GcB > unique. I discuss this topic while relating how common > diamonds are in comparison to other precious gem stones > (i.e., diamonds are so common that each one of us can be made > into one!). From kqhayes at chartermi.net Thu Dec 23 14:46:31 2004 From: kqhayes at chartermi.net (kqhayes@chartermi.net) Date: Thu Dec 23 14:46:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rocks for Kids Message-ID: <3k70ii$jp459i@mxip18a.cluster1.charter.net> Larry, et al, My issue on this is simply time. I have lots of material in excess, but I don't have time to sort it out and mail it. I have given away many, many specimens to local folks, but I require some help from them to make it happen. Now that I am in a new location - Kentucky vs. Michigan, I expect to do the same once I get moved in and stop working 12's. Regards, Keith Hayes www.kqminerals.com > > From: Don H > Date: 2004/12/23 Thu PM 07:14:38 GMT > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Rocks for Kids > > > BTW, the person looking for donations for school kids via a web site was me. > > I am disappointed that only 2 members volunteered to be part of a posting > > designed to serve as a get-together for donor and teachers. consequently, I > > am giving up on the idea. Maybe the self-satisfaction of live teaching does > > not extend to donations via the web!! > > > Larry, > > Please don't take it that way at all. I know very few people who have > enough material to potentially supply all the requests that would come > through a web page like that. I myself don't have much left that I am > able to give away, and when that's gone, I don't know when I'll have > more. If possible, I would supply every man, woman, and child who > wanted teaching material with all they could carry. But I can't. > > It was a very good and generous idea. I just think people have enough > outlets for the material they have. > > Warm regards, > Don > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From jonee at epix.net Thu Dec 23 15:05:21 2004 From: jonee at epix.net (E. L. Jones) Date: Thu Dec 23 15:05:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT RANT on the REPLY settings..Was Rocks for Kids In-Reply-To: <41CB4406.8050803@epix.net> References: <1e6.315028aa.2efbb876@aol.com> <6.1.2.0.0.20041222211259.025bee10@mail.aloha.net> <41CB4406.8050803@epix.net> Message-ID: <41CB4F31.2070001@epix.net> Sorry Kitty and List for that personal email which went to the list. As A subscriber to several list in which the standard setting is : REPLY: goes to sender only REPLY to ALL: goes to the list and the sender. It is easy to miss that this list has a single setting and to reply privately to the sender requires an extra minute of copying and pasting the intended address. Being an old dog it is hard to adapt to new tricks. Being an old senile dog-- it is hopeless. For we who are so accustomed to using the "reply" button for a private reply and are too senile to always check address line. Do you think the settings can be adjusted so that a "REPLY" goes to the apparent addressee and not to the list at large? I am sure if something is appropriate to the list it will be made under the "REPLY to ALL" functions of our email programs. If there is interest could/would we consider trying it and see if it facilitates keeping the mundane and embarassing posts for the eyes of the list at large? Thanks I am stepping off the soap box now. Merry "Politically Correct Resignated National Holiday Observation Period of 25 December With Associated and Lesser Cultural Customs including by not limited to Festivus"--Formally known as Christmas. Elton E. L. Jones wrote: > Ok Kitty, From kahako at aloha.net Thu Dec 23 18:17:09 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Dec 23 17:47:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ashes into diamonds! In-Reply-To: <003a01c4e930$5ace7b80$248a4c0c@fekib> References: <003a01c4e930$5ace7b80$248a4c0c@fekib> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041223160930.04e386a0@mail.aloha.net> I sent a post to the list back in August of 2002 under the topic/thread "natural gems." Several people jumped in, including Walt Bowser, who said he'd rather have his ashes divided in thirds, one part to be scattered at sea, one into a volcano, and one at a favorite collecting site. My original message follows: Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:46:51 -1000 As long as we're discussing natural vs. manmade minerals, here's a website for diamonds made from cremated remains "as a lasting keepsake of a loved one." www.lifegem.com There was an interview on the TV news this morning. The guy insisted that these are not synthetic, but genuine diamonds. They're genuine something, because a full karat stone costs $22,000. He said one loved one's remains could produce several gems, enough for the whole bereaved family. Aloha, Kitty At 10:44 AM 12/23/2004, you wrote: >There have been several news articles recently about a firm that is >converting cremation ashes into diamonds via heat and pressure >(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2209799.stm) (among others). > >For about $4000 US, LifeGem Memorials will create the diamonds from the >purified carbon of a loved ones ashes, which takes about 16 weeks in a >special pressurized furnace. This is not only scientifically interesting, >but an irresistible source of puns! > >Now, there have got to be some good lines out there among you gem lovers >about this; for example: > >Yes, that's Mabel on my finger....she always was a gem of a girl! > >or: Harry always said my mineral collection took up too much room, and now >I can carry it (and him) around my neck! > >OK....poor examples, but I know you can do better. How about it??? > >Larry Rush > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 From morningstar at att.net Thu Dec 23 18:29:12 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Thu Dec 23 18:27:41 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ashes into diamonds! In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20041223160930.04e386a0@mail.aloha.net> References: <003a01c4e930$5ace7b80$248a4c0c@fekib> <6.1.2.0.0.20041223160930.04e386a0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <41CB7EF8.3060800@att.net> Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > There was an interview on the TV news this morning. The guy insisted > that these are not synthetic, but genuine diamonds. That cracks me up . . . they might be diamonds, chemically and structurally, but they're sure as heck synthetic (in the strict sense of the word)--unless the loved one is buried in a kimberlite pipe as it is forming. What he probably meant to say was that they're real diamonds and not an artifical substitute, like moissanite or CZ. Still, just my opinion, but that's pretty sick. I couldn't imagine wearing a loved one as a ring. I couldn't imagine paying that much to do it either. Just bury me in a field and let some plants grow from my nutrients--from the earth I came, and to the earth I shall return. On that cheerful note, happy holidays to those for whom this is a holiday, and to those for whom it isn't, enjoy the general spirit of the season. I would like to offer my appreciation for the continued fellowship of the list, and even with differing opinions and viewpoints, this remains a happy sanctuary of conversation, information, specimens, and inspiration. That is a gift not only during Christmas, but year 'round. Best to all, Don J. Halterman, Jr. From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Dec 23 19:15:10 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Dec 23 19:12:15 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT RANT on the REPLY settings..Was Rocks for Kids References: <1e6.315028aa.2efbb876@aol.com> <6.1.2.0.0.20041222211259.025bee10@mail.aloha.net> <41CB4406.8050803@epix.net> <41CB4F31.2070001@epix.net> Message-ID: <41CB88E8.372@Tomaszewski.net> The Majordomo Users Group (and many other list related groups) say that 'Best Practices' for news or announcement type lists the Reply should go to the sender by default, but that for discussion groups the Reply should go to the list by default (to promote group discussion). Kreigh E. L. Jones wrote: > > Sorry Kitty and List for that personal email which went to the list. > > As A subscriber to several list in which the standard setting is : > REPLY: goes to sender only > REPLY to ALL: goes to the list and the sender. > > It is easy to miss that this list has a single setting and to reply > privately to the sender requires an extra minute of copying and pasting > the intended address. Being an old dog it is hard to adapt to new > tricks. Being an old senile dog-- it is hopeless. > > For we who are so accustomed to using the "reply" button for a private > reply and are too senile to always check address line. Do you think the > settings can be adjusted so that a "REPLY" goes to the apparent > addressee and not to the list at large? I am sure if something is > appropriate to the list it will be made under the "REPLY to ALL" > functions of our email programs. > > If there is interest could/would we consider trying it and see if it > facilitates keeping the mundane and embarassing posts for the eyes of > the list at large? > > Thanks I am stepping off the soap box now. > > Merry "Politically Correct Resignated National Holiday Observation > Period of 25 December With Associated and Lesser Cultural Customs > including by not limited to Festivus"--Formally known as Christmas. > > Elton > > E. L. Jones wrote: > > > Ok Kitty, From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Dec 23 21:13:53 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Dec 23 21:10:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rocks for Kids References: <20041223144004.36051.qmail@web51001.mail.yahoo.com> <9591D96E-54F6-11D9-A970-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> <004b01c4e908$7ac111a0$d18b4c0c@fekib> <6.1.2.0.0.20041223082420.0341e460@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <41CBA4AB.6950@Tomaszewski.net> Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > I'm sorry if there was confusion about the "Rocks for Kids" request. Mine > was for the sessions I do for schools here in Hawaii where kids only have > sand and lava to look at. Larry's was for a continuing web site. I think > Larry's idea is a great one, but I didn't respond because I have so little > to contribute (sand and lava). Kitty, To those of us lacking a friendly neighborhood volcano, your lava is interesting stuff. It can also produce some interesting sand (green, black,...). Most of us have some rock or mineral near us that we consider fairly common. Being common we usually don't think it has much value. But if you trade that rock with someone a thousand miles away it becomes something uncommon, and acquires value beyond the shipping costs. Your request for minerals was an unusually clear example of the need for any mineral types for education. I also think Larry's idea of promoting/facilitating long range donations of specimens for education is a great one. But I expect it won't work until he figures out how to handle one-time donations. Regular donations are not likely to come forward (but he might sell a few mines in donating a barrel (annually?) of stuff he ships if he can prove he is a non-profit per IRS). Validating the request is from a real teacher is also an issue. Limiting requests to only .edu domains might be a reasonable comprimise. I assume teachers can make specific or open-ended requests. The trick is matching requests and donations; do they stand in line, or is it random? I do some cleaning and find I have 7 pyrites, 3 agates, 5 fossils, and 13 selenite specimens to donate -- 28 in all. PayPal or other transfer of 3.76 (or whatever the basic small box rate is USPS) should allow each specimen to go to a different teacher with a need. Think of it as freeBAY, first come, first served; FOB shipper's dock (pick it up, or pay to ship). I hope Larry figures out how to make it work. Consider the fun you could have throwing in a couple extra specimens with each request you shipped. Kreigh From newryqs at rochester.rr.com Fri Dec 24 06:40:58 2004 From: newryqs at rochester.rr.com (Van) Date: Fri Dec 24 06:41:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ward's and Ward's Ashes References: <003a01c4e930$5ace7b80$248a4c0c@fekib> <6.1.2.0.0.20041223160930.04e386a0@mail.aloha.net> <41CB7EF8.3060800@att.net> Message-ID: <00af01c4e9c6$950314a0$6601a8c0@nathanqa8gl7gx> Yes, Don, this is a macabre thread even in the least holiday oriented of times. When I was at Ward's, many a year ago, a mineral collector's widow asked me to scatter her husband's remains at Newry, Maine. We bought a ticket from the miner who had the lease at that time and spread the ashes in the woods near the Dunton gem quarry. (No, he's not mingled with the dump.) As an aside, Ward's developed many of the modern taxidermy techniques and more than once has been asked to taxidermy a husband, although, company tradition has always held that the business was declined. When Ward's developed freeze dried taxidermy, new requests came in which were also declined. However, they do pets. Might as well get everything out in the open. When Henry Ward died in 1906 as the first traffic fatality in Buffalo, NY, Henry was cremated, except for his brain. His brain was bequeathed to a brain collector at Cornell University. About 1984, Cornell decided they were not in the brain business anymore, and offered Henry back to Ward's, which they accepted. Cornell had second thoughts and cremated those remains and the disposition of those ashes are unknown. Unfortunately, Henry's other ashes were installed out in the open in a cleft of polished granite which served as a base for Henry's favorite rock - the Gowganda tillite. The Gowganda tillite is named for a rock occurring near that Ontario, Canada silver mining town. It is a kind of quartzite with cobbles of bright orange red jasper. Kind of looks like a white rock with paint splotches. Henry's urn was stolen and the urn eventually found on cemetery property, but was empty. (Incidentally, American Museum of Natural History tradition holds that Henry was in New York City, the day before his death. He showed up having "partied too much" and the curator, probably Louis Gratacap, had Henry sleep it off on a mineralogy bench lest Henry continue embarrasing himself and the museum, but Henry rolled off onto the floor. Henry must have taken the train to Buffalo in order to get there the next day. Undoubtedly still hung over, Henry was crossing the street in downtown Buffalo in front of an oncoming auto. Henry stopped and insisted that the car give the right of way, but the driver was distracted by an hysterical passenger and did not operate the brake and the rest is history. Ward's tradition held that Henry began crossing the street reading something and I always imagined he was reading a mineral catalog or the Mineral Collector, rather than an ordinary newspaper.) Well, at least this thread is about the history of mineralogy. Happy HanuChriwanza! Van -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 From LarryRush at worldnet.att.net Fri Dec 24 07:29:07 2004 From: LarryRush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Fri Dec 24 07:29:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rocks for Kids References: <20041223144004.36051.qmail@web51001.mail.yahoo.com><9591D96E-54F6-11D9-A970-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net><004b01c4e908$7ac111a0$d18b4c0c@fekib><6.1.2.0.0.20041223082420.0341e460@mail.aloha.net> <41CBA4AB.6950@Tomaszewski.net> <001d01c4e9cc$0f8fd0a0$1d914c0c@fekib> Message-ID: <005201c4e9cd$7488b3e0$1d914c0c@fekib> Kreigh- Thanks again for your great enthusiasm, support, and ideas! My original idea was that I would not physically handle the donations myself, but only serve as a common communication ground for those who are interested. Thus, I wouldn't get directly involved in the postage and shipping aspects, except to act as a mediator or facilitator. (My age is a factor here!) I expected that the teachers would have been willing to pay the postage, and, in my experience, this has usually been the case. As for validation of the request, I would have gone to the professional associations of science teachers for advice and references. I still believe in the concept, and think that, in time, it has the potential to develop into a huge success, with donations coming from commercial mine owners, miners, dealers, and individual collectors. In time, it's conceivable that someone would volunteer to be a shipping point. The hobby needs the involvement of children now more than ever. The widespread closing of collecting sites has acted as a major depressant on the rate of kids getting involved. We all remember most clubs having a "pebble pup" group of youngsters actively and enthusiastically learning about minerals and fossils. These rarely exist today, and one can only wonder at the effect it must be having on young people getting interested in the earth sciences as a profession. Those who wrote about their experiences in giving school talks and hand-outs are doing a great job, and I wanted to supplement their efforts, not replace them. I don't plan on posting any more on this subject, I think we have beaten it enough, but, I do think it would be helpful to take a serious look at what we can do to keep the enthusiasm and wonder we all have for the science alive and well in future generations. Larry Rush I also think Larry's idea of promoting/facilitating long range donations of specimens for education is a great one. But I expect it won't work until he figures out how to handle one-time donations. Regular donations are not likely to come forward (but he might sell a few mines in donating a barrel (annually?) of stuff he ships if he can prove he is a non-profit per IRS). Validating the request is from a real teacher is also an issue. Limiting requests to only .edu domains might be a reasonable comprimise. I assume teachers can make specific or open-ended requests. The trick is matching requests and donations; do they stand in line, or is it random? I do some cleaning and find I have 7 pyrites, 3 agates, 5 fossils, and 13 selenite specimens to donate -- 28 in all. PayPal or other transfer of 3.76 (or whatever the basic small box rate is USPS) should allow each specimen to go to a different teacher with a need. Think of it as freeBAY, first come, first served; FOB shipper's dock (pick it up, or pay to ship). I hope Larry figures out how to make it work. Consider the fun you could have throwing in a couple extra specimens with each request you shipped. Kreigh _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Fri Dec 24 07:42:03 2004 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Fri Dec 24 07:42:05 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ashes into diamonds! In-Reply-To: <41CB7EF8.3060800@att.net> References: <003a01c4e930$5ace7b80$248a4c0c@fekib> <6.1.2.0.0.20041223160930.04e386a0@mail.aloha.net> <41CB7EF8.3060800@att.net> Message-ID: <41CC38CB.80401@xs4all.nl> Somehow I do not believe this whole thing at all. I know the 'compress your loved one into a gem business' does exist, but I'm pretty sure the end product will be some sort of glass. I'm no expert, but I think there is a difference between a cremated human and the black turkey at your in-law's X-mass diner. The black turkey is indeed mostly carbon. The ashes of a human are heated beyond that stage and most carbon is gone as CO2. What is left is only the inorganic substances of the body. This will be mostly the calcium phosphates of the bones and then some Fe, Na, K etc salts. I agree this can be carbonates, but overall this hardly seems diamond material at all. A low budget suggestion for the die-hard ( :-) ) rockhound is, let your bones to be thrown in a nearby iron rich swamp. This will ensure the formation of beautifull natural vivianite crystals..... I wish you all a merry X-mass and enjoy the turkey ;-) Maurice Don H wrote: > Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > >> >> There was an interview on the TV news this morning. The guy insisted >> that these are not synthetic, but genuine diamonds. > > > That cracks me up . . . they might be diamonds, chemically and > structurally, but they're sure as heck synthetic (in the strict sense > of the word)--unless the loved one is buried in a kimberlite pipe as > it is forming. What he probably meant to say was that they're real > diamonds and not an artifical substitute, like moissanite or CZ. > Still, just my opinion, but that's pretty sick. I couldn't imagine > wearing a loved one as a ring. I couldn't imagine paying that much to > do it either. Just bury me in a field and let some plants grow from > my nutrients--from the earth I came, and to the earth I shall return. > > On that cheerful note, happy holidays to those for whom this is a > holiday, and to those for whom it isn't, enjoy the general spirit of > the season. > > I would like to offer my appreciation for the continued fellowship of > the list, and even with differing opinions and viewpoints, this > remains a happy sanctuary of conversation, information, specimens, and > inspiration. That is a gift not only during Christmas, but year 'round. > > > Best to all, > > Don J. Halterman, Jr. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Fri Dec 24 08:16:06 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Fri Dec 24 08:07:10 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ward's and Ward's Ashes References: <003a01c4e930$5ace7b80$248a4c0c@fekib><6.1.2.0.0.20041223160930.04e386a0@mail.aloha.net><41CB7EF8.3060800@att.net> <00af01c4e9c6$950314a0$6601a8c0@nathanqa8gl7gx> Message-ID: <003901c4e9d3$e024dce0$a3a3490c@pete> Hi Van, That was a most interesting story about Henry Ward. I just printed it out and read it to Jane, who was much amused and interested (her being the Michigan gal, who particularly loves the rocks of the Great Lakes country). But she instantly pointed out one geologic error in your account, you're discussing the Gowganda Tillite but the conglomerate you describe is the well-known "jasper conglomerate" ("puddingstone", red jasper pebbles in white quartz matrix), part of the Lorain Quartzite which has its outcrops in Ontario near Sault St.-Marie. The Gowganda Tillite, of course (as I know, that you know) has a dark gray, silty matrix, with clasts mostly of red granite. Jane (Dianich), by the way, has among her "yard rocks" collection, two small boulders (or large cobbles--well, watermelon-size, let's say) of Gowganda Tillite, and one big one, for the record, of "jaspilite" from Jasper Knob, Ispheming, Mich. (in addition to assorted quartzites and sandstones, all hauled, of course, over the years, from their natural environment in Michigan or Ontario, down here to Denver). But her dream (or one of them), is still to acquire a similar-size nice rock of the Lorain/jasper conglomerate! P.S. to Kreigh, I was telling Jane about you again (she's read some of your stories online here before), and how I was sure you'd also notice the conglomeratic inconsistency in Van's description, and she says she needs to get to meet you some time, next time she's in Michigan! (She was there twice this summer, which makes her count it as nothing less than a super year.) And, Van--just keeping you honest about the accuracy of all the petrographic details! best wishes to all, Pete Modreski ----- Original Message ----- From: "Van" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 7:40 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Ward's and Ward's Ashes From morningstar at att.net Fri Dec 24 08:17:31 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Fri Dec 24 08:16:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ashes into diamonds! In-Reply-To: <41CC38CB.80401@xs4all.nl> References: <003a01c4e930$5ace7b80$248a4c0c@fekib> <6.1.2.0.0.20041223160930.04e386a0@mail.aloha.net> <41CB7EF8.3060800@att.net> <41CC38CB.80401@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <41CC411B.6020205@att.net> Maurice de Graaf wrote: > Somehow I do not believe this whole thing at all. . . . The > ashes of a human are heated beyond that stage and most carbon is gone as > CO2. What is left is only the inorganic substances of the body. This > will be mostly the calcium phosphates of the bones and then some Fe, Na, > K etc salts. You know Maurice, that is an interesting point. I heard about this on the radio some time ago, and it sounded like someone had analyzed the material and found it to be diamond. But then again I could be wrong. It may be possible that, just as with Mount St. Helen's ash, the body parts are mixed with a seed material that actually forms the bulk of the diamond. Who knows at this point. What would be really cool, as you implied, is if they could take all our component parts and make things like apatite crystals, vivianite, hematite, some fluorescent calcite (doped with the manganese and rare earth elements that exist as traces), etc. Then they can make a display out of it all! I'm about ready to head out, and I won't be back until Sunday, so happy (and, apparently, bizarre) holidays. Don From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Fri Dec 24 08:32:00 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Fri Dec 24 08:23:06 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ward's and Ward's Ashes - P.S. References: <003a01c4e930$5ace7b80$248a4c0c@fekib><6.1.2.0.0.20041223160930.04e386a0@mail.aloha.net><41CB7EF8.3060800@att.net> <00af01c4e9c6$950314a0$6601a8c0@nathanqa8gl7gx> Message-ID: <000701c4e9d6$193b3400$b2a4490c@pete> Hi Van again, One comment/question I meant to add to my letter about Ward's ashes. I was trying to intrepret from your story, where the cemetary is where Henry's ashes were buried or cached or stolen or whatever. One presumed from the story that it was in New York, perhaps Buffalo, but you said "in a cleft in [glacially, obviously] polished granite", and I'm thinking there is no granite bedrock around Buffalo (all Niagara-type limestone?), or anywhere along the south shore of Lakes Erie/Ontario, but maybe I'm wrong--I don't have a geologic map of NY immediately at hand; and I'm sure you can straighten me out on this. that's all! Pete From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Fri Dec 24 08:24:24 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Fri Dec 24 08:24:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nancy Hanks claim, Colorado Message-ID: <004d01c4e9d5$08659f40$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I have some green botryoidal fluorite from the Nancy Hanks claim in Mesa Co., Colorado. Is it part of a mineralized district or a completely isolated location? Is there a nearby town that could be listed on the label? Thanks, Alan G. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Fri Dec 24 08:26:14 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Fri Dec 24 08:26:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Boulder Hill mine, Nevada Message-ID: <005401c4e9d5$49bac7e0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> The mindat database lists the Boulder Hill claim in both Douglas Co. and Lyon Co., Nevada. I suppose the mine could bisect the claim. Does anyone know what the status is? Alan G. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Gslrocks at aol.com Fri Dec 24 08:52:02 2004 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Fri Dec 24 08:52:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ward's and Ward's Ashes - P.S. Message-ID: <192.35eca56d.2efda332@aol.com> The only granite here around Buffalo or Niagara Falls is glacial till material.That was brought down from up in Ontario. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From johnjold at comcast.net Fri Dec 24 09:16:11 2004 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Fri Dec 24 09:16:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ward's and Ward's Ashes In-Reply-To: <003901c4e9d3$e024dce0$a3a3490c@pete> References: <003a01c4e930$5ace7b80$248a4c0c@fekib><6.1.2.0.0.20041223160930.04e386a0@mail.aloha.net><41CB7EF8.3060800@att.net> <00af01c4e9c6$950314a0$6601a8c0@nathanqa8gl7gx> <003901c4e9d3$e024dce0$a3a3490c@pete> Message-ID: <8250766A-55CF-11D9-A970-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> Jasper conglomerate, while originating in Canada, is found in glacial deposits all over Michigan. I have several in the front yard found in gravel pits. Last year John Hall (Petoskey Stone Shop on US 31 N of Petoskey) told me about a guy who stopped in with a pickup bed load of jasper conglomerate boulders he had collected by looking in the water around Drummond Island off the eastern tip of Michigan's Upper Penninsula. They can be very colorful with the red and black jasper pebbles retaining their shape in the bright white metamorphic quartzite. John was converting some of these into specimens. Anybody who recovers boulders from water as cold as that part of the world has earned their money. In nearby Lake Superior your life expectancy if you fall in during the middle of August is 10 minutes. In Eastern Ave. Cemetery in Grand Rapids, near Kreigh's house, is a good sized 2 to 3' boulder cut in two both sides polished and converted into a tombstone. It is an especially good quality stone and certainly one of a kind. I'm not modern enough to have a digital camera yet or I would post a picture. In the same cemetery is another one of a kind tombstone a 5 to 6' boulder carved all over in a style unlikely to ever be duplicated. Now the tombstones and the last post about ashes lead me to yet another tale. I have dug at Margaret Hastings Diamond Acres near Fonda, New York for 8 summers since the late 80's including having a regular claim the last 5 years. About every 10 years the mine owners bring in a bull dozer to remove the rubble and see what is there to dig. The last such effort happened while I was living in Asia so I am not sure of the name of the dozer driver. The fellow was also a digger who, like many of us, loved the place. He died not long after that. His last wishes were to be sprinkled on the last pile of rubble he scraped together in the place he loved. His son fulfilled his wishes. To this day he is saluted and even talked to by some of the regulars. John J On Dec 24, 2004, at 11:16 AM, Peter J. Modreski wrote: > Hi Van, > > That was a most interesting story about Henry Ward. I just printed it > out > and read it to Jane, who was much amused and interested (her being the > Michigan gal, who particularly loves the rocks of the Great Lakes > country). > But she instantly pointed out one geologic error in your account, > you're > discussing the Gowganda Tillite but the conglomerate you describe is > the > well-known "jasper conglomerate" ("puddingstone", red jasper pebbles in > white quartz matrix), part of the Lorain Quartzite which has its > outcrops in > Ontario near Sault St.-Marie. The Gowganda Tillite, of course (as I > know, > that you know) has a dark gray, silty matrix, with clasts mostly of red > granite. > > Jane (Dianich), by the way, has among her "yard rocks" collection, two > small > boulders (or large cobbles--well, watermelon-size, let's say) of > Gowganda > Tillite, and one big one, for the record, of "jaspilite" from Jasper > Knob, > Ispheming, Mich. (in addition to assorted quartzites and sandstones, > all > hauled, of course, over the years, from their natural environment in > Michigan or Ontario, down here to Denver). But her dream (or one of > them), > is still to acquire a similar-size nice rock of the Lorain/jasper > conglomerate! > > P.S. to Kreigh, I was telling Jane about you again (she's read some of > your > stories online here before), and how I was sure you'd also notice the > conglomeratic inconsistency in Van's description, and she says she > needs to > get to meet you some time, next time she's in Michigan! (She was there > twice this summer, which makes her count it as nothing less than a > super > year.) And, Van--just keeping you honest about the accuracy of all the > petrographic details! > > best wishes to all, > Pete Modreski > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Van" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > > Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 7:40 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Ward's and Ward's Ashes > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From newryqs at rochester.rr.com Fri Dec 24 09:18:28 2004 From: newryqs at rochester.rr.com (Van) Date: Fri Dec 24 09:18:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ward's and Ward's Ashes References: <003a01c4e930$5ace7b80$248a4c0c@fekib> <6.1.2.0.0.20041223160930.04e386a0@mail.aloha.net> <41CB7EF8.3060800@att.net> <00af01c4e9c6$950314a0$6601a8c0@nathanqa8gl7gx> <003901c4e9d3$e024dce0$a3a3490c@pete> Message-ID: <000f01c4e9dc$95eb28b0$6601a8c0@nathanqa8gl7gx> Dear Pete, Thanks for the correction. As I said, these details came down as a tradition and the tradition included the name of Ward's gravestone rock. Best Regards, Van -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 From newryqs at rochester.rr.com Fri Dec 24 09:22:54 2004 From: newryqs at rochester.rr.com (Van) Date: Fri Dec 24 09:23:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ward's and Ward's Ashes - P.S. References: <003a01c4e930$5ace7b80$248a4c0c@fekib> <6.1.2.0.0.20041223160930.04e386a0@mail.aloha.net> <41CB7EF8.3060800@att.net> <00af01c4e9c6$950314a0$6601a8c0@nathanqa8gl7gx> <000701c4e9d6$193b3400$b2a4490c@pete> Message-ID: <001801c4e9dd$34457d30$6601a8c0@nathanqa8gl7gx> Most cemeteries do not allow what they call "wild rock". Henry's gravestone is in Mt. Hope Cemetary, Mt. Hope Avenue, Rochester, NY. The granite was professionally polished. There are actually four clefts containing urns in the granite base. Henry's son's urn is also missing, but as I remember it there are two urns remaining of family members installed in the same monument. Van -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 From lanny at lrream.com Fri Dec 24 09:35:15 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Fri Dec 24 09:33:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Boulder Hill mine, Nevada In-Reply-To: <005401c4e9d5$49bac7e0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> References: <005401c4e9d5$49bac7e0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <2BFB1CFD-55D2-11D9-94B8-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi Alan, The Nevada Mineral Index in Rocks & Minerals puts the locality in Lyon Co. as does the new Minerals of Nevada. Lanny On Dec 24, 2004, at 8:26 AM, Alan Goldstein wrote: > The mindat database lists the Boulder Hill claim in both Douglas Co. > and Lyon Co., Nevada. I suppose the mine could bisect the claim. Does > anyone know what the status is? > > Alan G. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From pjmodreski at att.net Fri Dec 24 09:43:29 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Fri Dec 24 09:43:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ward's and Ward's Ashes - P.S. Message-ID: <122420041743.13006.41CC5541000685C1000032CE216028106007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Thanks, Van! I had (incorrectly, as I see) interpreted your "clefts in polished granite" to mean some natural outdoor site with clefts in glacially polished bedrock--totally a wrong take on what you said. Enjoyed the others' comments about the jasper conglomerate etc., too. best regards, Pete -------------- Original message from "Van" : -------------- > Most cemeteries do not allow what they call "wild rock". Henry's gravestone > is in Mt. Hope Cemetary, Mt. Hope Avenue, Rochester, NY. The granite was > professionally polished. There are actually four clefts containing urns in > the granite base. Henry's son's urn is also missing, but as I remember it > there are two urns remaining of family members installed in the same > monument. > > Van > > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Fri Dec 24 09:40:34 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Fri Dec 24 09:55:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nancy Hanks claim, Colorado Message-ID: <122420041740.11621.41CC5491000ADFB700002D65216028106007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Hi Allen, Just a real quick reply. I read this & your last email-- I'll write back & answer & comment on your letters--at leisure. Busy doing some "holiday stuff", I guess. But the Nancy Hanks mine is on a tributary (Nancy Hanks Gulch) to Unaweep Canyon, south of Grand Junction. There are several vein deposits in this area, with green fluorite, and some copper minerals, and some with amethyst too. We describe this quite briefly in our (Jack Murphy & me) article on Colorado gemstones in the July-Aug 2002 Rocks & Minerals. No towns nearby. I'll write back some more, best regards, Pete -------------- Original message from "Alan Goldstein" : -------------- > I have some green botryoidal fluorite from the Nancy Hanks claim in Mesa Co., > Colorado. Is it part of a mineralized district or a completely isolated > location? Is there a nearby town that could be listed on the label? > > Thanks, > > Alan G. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From teyancey at mail.tca.net Fri Dec 24 10:26:13 2004 From: teyancey at mail.tca.net (Thomas Yancey) Date: Fri Dec 24 10:26:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nancy Hanks claim, Colorado In-Reply-To: <004d01c4e9d5$08659f40$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> References: <004d01c4e9d5$08659f40$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: Alan, This is a small district with fluorite. My info is: "site is in Nancy Hanks Gulch, 1.2 mile from Amethyst Queen mine, on north side of Unaweep Canyon, 12 miles SW of Whitewater" in center of N1/2 of Sec.10, T.14S, R.100W; 38?51'N, 108?33'W described in Rocks&Minerals v.59, p.10-11 and v.71, p.164 Tom Y >I have some green botryoidal fluorite from the Nancy Hanks claim in >Mesa Co., Colorado. Is it part of a mineralized district or a >completely isolated location? Is there a nearby town that could be >listed on the label? > >Thanks, > >Alan G. -- Thomas Yancey From geenet2 at mchsi.com Fri Dec 24 11:31:16 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Fri Dec 24 11:32:31 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Ebay rock collectors....dedicated to you! Message-ID: <003901c4e9ef$239465c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> A friend of mine who knows I buy a lot of my rocks and minerals on eBay sent this to me. Any body else who also eBays can appreciate this. Jeanette I just got some Biggs Jasper slabs........from eBay. Click on the link, and have your speakers on. >> So funny...dedicated to you! http://www.geoffellis.com/ebay.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Fri Dec 24 11:39:30 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Fri Dec 24 11:40:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Ebay rock collectors....dedicated to you! In-Reply-To: <003901c4e9ef$239465c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <200412241939.iBOJdltc031234@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Lot's of other good stuff on old Al's CD! My boys like to play this in the car whilst on long trips. Singing this at the top of our lungs in the car is a hoot. I especially like "I bid on Shatner's old toupee". GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Jeanette Wimpee > Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 1:31 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Ebay rock collectors....dedicated to you! > > A friend of mine who knows I buy a lot of my rocks and > minerals on eBay sent this to me. Any body else who also > eBays can appreciate this. > Jeanette > I just got some Biggs Jasper slabs........from eBay. > > Click on the link, and have your speakers on. > > > > >> So funny...dedicated to you! > > http://www.geoffellis.com/ebay.html From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Fri Dec 24 11:41:48 2004 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn's Mail) Date: Fri Dec 24 11:41:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Merry Christmas! References: <122420041740.11621.41CC5491000ADFB700002D65216028106007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <006601c4e9f0$9bcb20a0$6601a8c0@GlennWimpee> Merry Christmas! May you all have a joyous and blessed Christmas! And to keep this OT, may Santa (or one of his helpers) bring you the mineral speciman of your dreams! Glenn & Jeanette Wimpee --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Dec 24 11:49:42 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Dec 24 11:49:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Merry Christmas! In-Reply-To: <006601c4e9f0$9bcb20a0$6601a8c0@GlennWimpee> Message-ID: Glenn & Jeanette wrote: >Merry Christmas! >May you all have a joyous and blessed Christmas! >And to keep this OT, may Santa (or one of his helpers) bring you the mineral speciman of your dreams! allow me to ad my wishes and may the specimen of your dreams fluoresce in several exiting colors and phosphoresce far into 2005. Merry Cristmas to y'all Axel From jbryankramer at msn.com Fri Dec 24 12:32:42 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Dec 24 12:32:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] MSN desktop search In-Reply-To: <2BFB1CFD-55D2-11D9-94B8-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: I assume many of you have a large number of emails and such on your hard drive with information about rockhounding or maybe even other subjects. I do and it can be tough to find a particular email when I'm looking for it a couple of years later. Microsoft has just came out with a beta version of their desktop search engine which is very impressive. Once your drive is indexed (takes overnight or so depending on how much you have on the drives and how fast your machine is) it will do instantaneous searches on files and emails. I just searched for 'Apatite' and it pulled up 10 hits before I finished typing the word. Vastly superior to the awful search function built into Windows. Some warnings: The email search only works on MS Outlook and Outlook Express The beta is English only And you need MS Internet Explorer (I think to make it work) In other words you need a MS based system, it searches inside other MS Office files too. The indexing goes on as a background process. I wasn't planning on trying this until I saw a demo and was wowed by the demo. If interested the URL: http://beta.toolbar.msn.com Bryan From jbryankramer at msn.com Fri Dec 24 12:42:37 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Dec 24 12:42:42 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ashes into diamonds! In-Reply-To: <41CC38CB.80401@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: I was thinking the same thing, I doubt there is any carbon left in the ashes. IIRC crematories run at about 2000 degrees F or 1100 C. Didn't we already have this exact thread a year or so ago? It seems like we ended up at the same conclusion. Bryan -------Original Message----- -- --Somehow I do not believe this whole thing at all. I know the --'compress --your loved one into a gem business' does exist, but I'm --pretty sure the --end product will be some sort of glass. I'm no expert, but I --think there --is a difference between a cremated human and the black turkey at your --in-law's X-mass diner. The black turkey is indeed mostly carbon. The --ashes of a human are heated beyond that stage and most carbon --is gone as --CO2. What is left is only the inorganic substances of the body. This --will be mostly the calcium phosphates of the bones and then --some Fe, Na, --K etc salts. I agree this can be carbonates, but overall this hardly --seems diamond material at all. -- --A low budget suggestion for the die-hard ( :-) ) rockhound --is, let your --bones to be thrown in a nearby iron rich swamp. This will ensure the --formation of beautifull natural vivianite crystals..... -- --I wish you all a merry X-mass and enjoy the turkey ;-) -- --Maurice -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --Don H wrote: -- --> Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: --> -->> -->> There was an interview on the TV news this morning. The --guy insisted -->> that these are not synthetic, but genuine diamonds. --> --> --> That cracks me up . . . they might be diamonds, chemically and --> structurally, but they're sure as heck synthetic (in the --strict sense --> of the word)--unless the loved one is buried in a --kimberlite pipe as --> it is forming. What he probably meant to say was that --they're real --> diamonds and not an artifical substitute, like moissanite or CZ. --> Still, just my opinion, but that's pretty sick. I couldn't imagine --> wearing a loved one as a ring. I couldn't imagine paying --that much to --> do it either. Just bury me in a field and let some plants --grow from --> my nutrients--from the earth I came, and to the earth I --shall return. --> --> On that cheerful note, happy holidays to those for whom this is a --> holiday, and to those for whom it isn't, enjoy the general --spirit of --> the season. --> --> I would like to offer my appreciation for the continued --fellowship of --> the list, and even with differing opinions and viewpoints, this --> remains a happy sanctuary of conversation, information, --specimens, and --> inspiration. That is a gift not only during Christmas, but --year 'round. --> --> --> Best to all, --> --> Don J. Halterman, Jr. --> --> --> --> _______________________________________________ --> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --> Subscription Services: --> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --> --> -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Fri Dec 24 13:50:39 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Fri Dec 24 13:41:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ashes into diamonds! References: Message-ID: <001301c4ea02$9d7a7920$4aa5490c@pete> I also had been puzzled when I first read about the "ashes to diamonds" business. Seems like I've read two different stories of how this is done, and I'm not sure which is correct. One implied that they trap & collect some of the CO2 gas given off when the body is cremated, and use that. But they talk about just needing the ashes to make the diamonds, so the other version is that there is still a small amount of carbon retained in the ash (such as in the form of traces of Ca or Na carbonates, not all completely decomposed at the combustion temperature), and this is what they extract and use. This would be similar to the way carbon-14 dating is done; the carbon is extracted, usually as CO2, from the carbon-bearing material to be dated, and the isotope measurements are made on a pure sample of the CO2. An accurate description must be posted somewhere, though I think they say that the process is "proprietary". One might also wonder whether they use exclusively C derived from the.... dearly departed beloved, shall we say... or whether they mix a bit of the "real" person's carbon with "filler" carbon to make the diamond. Like Mount St. Helens Glass/"Emeralds", which I think the consensus is, has enhanced coloring agents added. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 1:42 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Ashes into diamonds! > I was thinking the same thing, I doubt there is any carbon left in the > ashes. IIRC crematories run at about 2000 degrees F or 1100 C. Didn't we > already have this exact thread a year or so ago? It seems like we ended up > at the same conclusion. > > Bryan > > -------Original Message----- > -- > --Somehow I do not believe this whole thing at all. I know the > --'compress > --your loved one into a gem business' does exist, but I'm > --pretty sure the > --end product will be some sort of glass. I'm no expert, but I > --think there > --is a difference between a cremated human and the black turkey at your > --in-law's X-mass diner. The black turkey is indeed mostly carbon. The > --ashes of a human are heated beyond that stage and most carbon > --is gone as > --CO2. What is left is only the inorganic substances of the body. This > --will be mostly the calcium phosphates of the bones and then > --some Fe, Na, > --K etc salts. I agree this can be carbonates, but overall this hardly > --seems diamond material at all. > -- > --A low budget suggestion for the die-hard ( :-) ) rockhound > --is, let your > --bones to be thrown in a nearby iron rich swamp. This will ensure the > --formation of beautifull natural vivianite crystals..... > -- > --I wish you all a merry X-mass and enjoy the turkey ;-) > -- > --Maurice > -- > -- > -- > -- > -- > -- > -- > -- > --Don H wrote: > -- > --> Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > --> > -->> > -->> There was an interview on the TV news this morning. The > --guy insisted > -->> that these are not synthetic, but genuine diamonds. > --> > --> > --> That cracks me up . . . they might be diamonds, chemically and > --> structurally, but they're sure as heck synthetic (in the > --strict sense > --> of the word)--unless the loved one is buried in a > --kimberlite pipe as > --> it is forming. What he probably meant to say was that > --they're real > --> diamonds and not an artifical substitute, like moissanite or CZ. > --> Still, just my opinion, but that's pretty sick. I couldn't imagine > --> wearing a loved one as a ring. I couldn't imagine paying > --that much to > --> do it either. Just bury me in a field and let some plants > --grow from > --> my nutrients--from the earth I came, and to the earth I > --shall return. > --> > --> On that cheerful note, happy holidays to those for whom this is a > --> holiday, and to those for whom it isn't, enjoy the general > --spirit of > --> the season. > --> > --> I would like to offer my appreciation for the continued > --fellowship of > --> the list, and even with differing opinions and viewpoints, this > --> remains a happy sanctuary of conversation, information, > --specimens, and > --> inspiration. That is a gift not only during Christmas, but > --year 'round. > --> > --> > --> Best to all, > --> > --> Don J. Halterman, Jr. > --> > --> > --> > --> _______________________________________________ > --> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > --> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > --> Subscription Services: > --> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --> > --> > -- > --_______________________________________________ > --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > --Subscription Services: > --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > -- > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at aloha.net Fri Dec 24 14:30:20 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Dec 24 14:00:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ashes into diamonds! In-Reply-To: <001301c4ea02$9d7a7920$4aa5490c@pete> References: <001301c4ea02$9d7a7920$4aa5490c@pete> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041224122120.055b1eb0@mail.aloha.net> To see what the "lifegem" website says about the process, go to: http://www.lifegem.com/secondary/process.asp As for covering this is the past, here is what Walt Browser wrote back in 2002: "Saw that on TV last night. What a crock. First of all, Diamonds are pure carbon. Secondly, ashes contain little carbon, as it has mostly been changed to CO2. NOW, did you see the diamonds? They appeared to be heavily included. Maybe, but definitely NOT natural..." Aloha, Kitty At 11:50 AM 12/24/2004, Peter J. Modreski wrote: >I also had been puzzled when I first read about the "ashes to diamonds" >business. Seems like I've read two different stories of how this is done, >and I'm not sure which is correct. At 10:42 AM 12/24/2004, J Bryan Kramer wrote: I was thinking the same thing, I doubt there is any carbon left in the ashes. IIRC crematories run at about 2000 degrees F or 1100 C. Didn't we already have this exact thread a year or so ago? It seems like we ended up at the same conclusion. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Dec 24 14:44:13 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Dec 24 14:43:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ashes into diamonds! In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20041224122120.055b1eb0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: yo Kitty >did you see the diamonds? They appeared to be heavily included. Maybe, but >definitely NOT natural..." No but did you see the movie "DOA" in which a professor is poisoned with radium and has 24 hours to live (and find his killer)? Imagine turning his remains into a diamond-contamination? You'd have a permanently luminescent diamond ;-)))) No kidding, I ink it would be hard to incorporate any strange atoms in the diamond crystal lattice except: nitrogen triplets and quintuplets, boron, aluminum and... well... what else? Anybody? Cheers Axel From jbryankramer at msn.com Fri Dec 24 14:58:34 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Dec 24 14:58:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ashes into diamonds! In-Reply-To: <001301c4ea02$9d7a7920$4aa5490c@pete> Message-ID: Well Calcium and Magnesium Carbonate decompose at fairly low temps to the oxide and CO2 gas during the original cremation which occurs around 1000-1150 C (according to some websites I checked) and lasts around 2 to 2 1/2 hours. I think Sodium Carbonate decomposes around 1000 C, it is used as a flux for fusions in labs. The website of the diamond producers say they extract carbon at very high temps and mix it with their carbon to produce the diamond. So they may extract a few micrograms of CO2 from the remains. This operation seems to be about as ethical as the one who sells 'star names'. Bryan -------Original Message----- -- --I also had been puzzled when I first read about the "ashes to --diamonds" business. Seems like I've read two different --stories of how this is done, and I'm not sure which is --correct. One implied that they trap & collect some of the --CO2 gas given off when the body is cremated, and use that. --But they talk about just needing the ashes to make the --diamonds, so the other version is that there is still a small --amount of carbon retained in the ash (such as in the form of --traces of Ca or Na carbonates, not all completely decomposed --at the combustion temperature), and this is what they extract --and use. This would be similar to the way carbon-14 dating --is done; the carbon is extracted, usually as CO2, from the --carbon-bearing material to be dated, --and the isotope measurements are made on a pure sample of the --CO2. An --accurate description must be posted somewhere, though I think --they say that the process is "proprietary". -- --One might also wonder whether they use exclusively C derived --from the.... dearly departed beloved, shall we say... or --whether they mix a bit of the "real" person's carbon with --"filler" carbon to make the diamond. Like Mount St. Helens --Glass/"Emeralds", which I think the consensus is, has --enhanced coloring agents added. -- --Pete -- -- ------- Original Message ----- --From: "J Bryan Kramer" --To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem --collectors'" --Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 1:42 PM --Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Ashes into diamonds! -- -- --> I was thinking the same thing, I doubt there is any carbon --left in the --> ashes. IIRC crematories run at about 2000 degrees F or 1100 --C. Didn't --> we already have this exact thread a year or so ago? It --seems like we --> ended up at the same conclusion. --> --> Bryan --> --> -------Original Message----- --> -- --> --Somehow I do not believe this whole thing at all. I know the --> --'compress --your loved one into a gem business' does --exist, but I'm --> --pretty sure the --> --end product will be some sort of glass. I'm no expert, but I --> --think there --> --is a difference between a cremated human and the black --turkey at your --> --in-law's X-mass diner. The black turkey is indeed mostly --carbon. The --> --ashes of a human are heated beyond that stage and most carbon --> --is gone as --> --CO2. What is left is only the inorganic substances of the --body. This --> --will be mostly the calcium phosphates of the bones and then --> --some Fe, Na, --> --K etc salts. I agree this can be carbonates, but overall --this hardly --> --seems diamond material at all. --> -- --> --A low budget suggestion for the die-hard ( :-) ) rockhound --> --is, let your --> --bones to be thrown in a nearby iron rich swamp. This will --ensure the --> --formation of beautifull natural vivianite crystals..... --> -- --> --I wish you all a merry X-mass and enjoy the turkey ;-) --> -- --> --Maurice --> -- --> -- --> -- --> -- --> -- --> -- --> -- --> -- --> --Don H wrote: --> -- --> --> Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: --> --> --> -->> --> -->> There was an interview on the TV news this morning. The --> --guy insisted --> -->> that these are not synthetic, but genuine diamonds. --> --> --> --> --> --> That cracks me up . . . they might be diamonds, chemically and --> --> structurally, but they're sure as heck synthetic (in the --> --strict sense --> --> of the word)--unless the loved one is buried in a --> --kimberlite pipe as --> --> it is forming. What he probably meant to say was that --> --they're real --> --> diamonds and not an artifical substitute, like --moissanite or CZ. --> --> Still, just my opinion, but that's pretty sick. I couldn't --> --> imagine wearing a loved one as a ring. I couldn't --imagine paying --> --that much to --> --> do it either. Just bury me in a field and let some plants --> --grow from --> --> my nutrients--from the earth I came, and to the earth I --> --shall return. --> --> --> --> On that cheerful note, happy holidays to those for whom --this is a --> --> holiday, and to those for whom it isn't, enjoy the general --> --spirit of --> --> the season. --> --> --> --> I would like to offer my appreciation for the continued --> --fellowship of --> --> the list, and even with differing opinions and viewpoints, this --> --> remains a happy sanctuary of conversation, information, --> --specimens, and --> --> inspiration. That is a gift not only during Christmas, but --> --year 'round. --> --> --> --> --> --> Best to all, --> --> --> --> Don J. Halterman, Jr. --> --> --> --> --> --> --> --> _______________________________________________ --> --> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --> --> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --> --> Subscription Services: --> --> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --> --> --> --> --> -- --> --_______________________________________________ --> --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --> --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --> --Subscription Services: --> --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --> -- --> --> _______________________________________________ --> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --> Subscription Services: --> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- From adaml001 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 24 15:04:31 2004 From: adaml001 at yahoo.com (adam larson) Date: Fri Dec 24 15:04:33 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Nancy Hanks claim, Colorado Message-ID: <20041224230431.50226.qmail@web52303.mail.yahoo.com> Hi All, I know the owner and have a little for trade if anyone can use amethyst on fluorite. It is a worldwide locale. Regards, Adam Larson __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Dec 24 20:35:13 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Dec 24 20:35:03 2004 Subject: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] MSN desktop search References: Message-ID: <41CCEDEF.5E15@Tomaszewski.net> You might also want to check out Google's desktop search tool. J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > I assume many of you have a large number of emails and such on your hard > drive with information about rockhounding or maybe even other subjects. I do > and it can be tough to find a particular email when I'm looking for it a > couple of years later. Microsoft has just came out with a beta version of > their desktop search engine which is very impressive. Once your drive is > indexed (takes overnight or so depending on how much you have on the drives > and how fast your machine is) it will do instantaneous searches on files and > emails. I just searched for 'Apatite' and it pulled up 10 hits before I > finished typing the word. Vastly superior to the awful search function built > into Windows. > > Some warnings: > > The email search only works on MS Outlook and Outlook Express > > The beta is English only > > And you need MS Internet Explorer (I think to make it work) > > In other words you need a MS based system, it searches inside other MS > Office files too. The indexing goes on as a background process. I wasn't > planning on trying this until I saw a demo and was wowed by the demo. If > interested the URL: > > http://beta.toolbar.msn.com > > Bryan From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Dec 24 21:36:00 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Dec 24 21:35:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ward's and Ward's Ashes References: <003a01c4e930$5ace7b80$248a4c0c@fekib><6.1.2.0.0.20041223160930.04e386a0@mail.aloha.net><41CB7EF8.3060800@att.net> <00af01c4e9c6$950314a0$6601a8c0@nathanqa8gl7gx> <003901c4e9d3$e024dce0$a3a3490c@pete> <8250766A-55CF-11D9-A970-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> Message-ID: <41CCFC27.58C5@Tomaszewski.net> John Joldersma wrote: > In Eastern Ave. Cemetery in Grand Rapids, near Kreigh's house, is > a good sized 2 to 3' boulder cut in two both sides polished and > converted into a tombstone. It is an especially good quality stone and > certainly one of a kind. I'm not modern enough to have a digital > camera yet or I would post a picture. In the same cemetery is another > one of a kind tombstone a 5 to 6' boulder carved all over in a style > unlikely to ever be duplicated. Thank you John! Now that you mention it I remember those tombstones. I first met them on a third grade school field trip to the Eastern Avenue Cemetery. The City Historian was our guide, and he introduced us to our City's Founders at their gravesides, and told us their histories. Third grade geography and history was city, fourth was state, fifth was country, and sixth was the world. I was already a rockhound, and was the only one in my class that could identify the 'puddingstone concrection'/'jasper conglomerate' tombstone. Thank you for reminding me of a childhood memory. And I wish the list a Merry Christmas, and hope you can share in my joy at this holiday season, whatever your personal beliefs may be. Peace be with you. Kreigh From geenet2 at mchsi.com Fri Dec 24 22:06:24 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Fri Dec 24 22:07:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Ebay rock collectors....dedicated to you! References: <200412241939.iBOJdltc031234@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <011601c4ea47$dd5613c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Yeah, that was a good one... I enjoyed Al Yankovich's videos on MTV (used to watch with the kids, long time ago). Even watched thru the other junk just to record them on VHS. I have a few MP3's too. I love ROCK and roll music..... Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Brown" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 1:39 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fw: Ebay rock collectors....dedicated to you! > Lot's of other good stuff on old Al's CD! My boys like to play this in the > car whilst on long trips. Singing this at the top of our lungs in the car > is a hoot. I especially like "I bid on Shatner's old toupee". > > GcB > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > > Jeanette Wimpee > > Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 1:31 PM > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Ebay rock collectors....dedicated to you! > > > > A friend of mine who knows I buy a lot of my rocks and > > minerals on eBay sent this to me. Any body else who also > > eBays can appreciate this. > > Jeanette > > I just got some Biggs Jasper slabs........from eBay. > > > > Click on the link, and have your speakers on. > > > > > > > > >> So funny...dedicated to you! > > > > http://www.geoffellis.com/ebay.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From geenet2 at mchsi.com Fri Dec 24 22:07:46 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Fri Dec 24 22:09:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Merry Christmas! References: Message-ID: <011c01c4ea48$0e503960$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Axel, you must be from the southern region of Belgium. :-) > > Merry Cristmas to y'all > > Axel > From geenet2 at mchsi.com Fri Dec 24 22:11:39 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Fri Dec 24 22:12:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] MSN desktop search References: Message-ID: <013401c4ea48$98dd4780$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> That would be useful to have. With over 3000 photos on my computer, even sorted into folders, sometimes it's hard to remember exactly where one I want is. Maybe this will help. If I can remember what the name is, that is... Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 2:32 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] MSN desktop search > I assume many of you have a large number of emails and such on your hard > drive with information about rockhounding or maybe even other subjects. I do > and it can be tough to find a particular email when I'm looking for it a > couple of years later. Microsoft has just came out with a beta version of > their desktop search engine which is very impressive. Once your drive is > indexed (takes overnight or so depending on how much you have on the drives > and how fast your machine is) it will do instantaneous searches on files and > emails. I just searched for 'Apatite' and it pulled up 10 hits before I > finished typing the word. Vastly superior to the awful search function built > into Windows. > > Some warnings: > > The email search only works on MS Outlook and Outlook Express > > The beta is English only > > And you need MS Internet Explorer (I think to make it work) > > In other words you need a MS based system, it searches inside other MS > Office files too. The indexing goes on as a background process. I wasn't > planning on trying this until I saw a demo and was wowed by the demo. If > interested the URL: > > http://beta.toolbar.msn.com > > Bryan > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From geenet2 at mchsi.com Fri Dec 24 22:13:40 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Fri Dec 24 22:14:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] MSN desktop search References: Message-ID: <013a01c4ea48$e13665c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Well darn....you have to have XP. Jeanette > Some warnings: > > The email search only works on MS Outlook and Outlook Express > > The beta is English only > > And you need MS Internet Explorer (I think to make it work) > > In other words you need a MS based system, it searches inside other MS > Office files too. The indexing goes on as a background process. I wasn't > planning on trying this until I saw a demo and was wowed by the demo. If > interested the URL: > > http://beta.toolbar.msn.com > > Bryan > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From magnet at crocoite.com Fri Dec 24 23:27:21 2004 From: magnet at crocoite.com (magnet) Date: Fri Dec 24 23:27:03 2004 Subject: OT: [Rockhounds] MSN desktop search Message-ID: <20041225072721.10135.qmail@webmachine101.com> I have loaded both the Google one (which is a beta version) and Copernic and I find the latter much more useful. Problem with Google for me is that it doesn't (yet) index pdf files. Regards Steve -------Original Message------- > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > Subject: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] MSN desktop search > Sent: 24 Dec 2004 18:35:13 > > You might also want to check out Google's desktop search tool. > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Dec 25 03:17:18 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Dec 25 03:16:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Merry Christmas! In-Reply-To: <011c01c4ea48$0e503960$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: No Jeanette, I'm as far North as can be without crossing the Dutch border... I have such a warm heart, however, that I always carry my own south with me... (liver & kidneys are ok too, but I usually don't brag about that) Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jeanette Wimpee Verzonden: zaterdag 25 december 2004 7:08 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Merry Christmas! Axel, you must be from the southern region of Belgium. :-) > > Merry Cristmas to y'all > > Axel > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sat Dec 25 03:29:41 2004 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sat Dec 25 04:07:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Merry Christmas! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41CD4F25.2010106@xs4all.nl> What Axel actually want to say, but did not dare is that he is DUTCH southern belle. Long time ago Belgium was part of the Netherlands, but the warm hearted southerns choose to go their own way. Ook een zalig kerstfeest voor jouw Axel :-) Maurice Axel Emmermann wrote: >No Jeanette, I'm as far North as can be without crossing the Dutch border... >I have such a warm heart, however, that I always carry my own south with >me... (liver & kidneys are ok too, but I usually don't brag about that) > >Axel > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jeanette Wimpee >Verzonden: zaterdag 25 december 2004 7:08 >Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Merry Christmas! > > >Axel, you must be from the southern region of Belgium. :-) > > > > >>Merry Cristmas to y'all >> >>Axel >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Dec 25 05:46:23 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Dec 25 05:46:10 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Merry Christmas! In-Reply-To: <41CD4F25.2010106@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Yeah, and if I had hair it would smell of magnolias... Unfortunately, all our minerals are in he southern part of our country, where French is spoken... Maurice, een pettige kerst en ga maar eens lekker uit de bol met oudejaar. Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Maurice de Graaf Verzonden: zaterdag 25 december 2004 12:30 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Merry Christmas! What Axel actually want to say, but did not dare is that he is DUTCH southern belle. Long time ago Belgium was part of the Netherlands, but the warm hearted southerns choose to go their own way. Ook een zalig kerstfeest voor jouw Axel :-) Maurice Axel Emmermann wrote: >No Jeanette, I'm as far North as can be without crossing the Dutch border... >I have such a warm heart, however, that I always carry my own south with >me... (liver & kidneys are ok too, but I usually don't brag about that) > >Axel > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jeanette Wimpee >Verzonden: zaterdag 25 december 2004 7:08 >Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Merry Christmas! > > >Axel, you must be from the southern region of Belgium. :-) > > > > >>Merry Cristmas to y'all >> >>Axel >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jbryankramer at msn.com Sat Dec 25 07:39:12 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Dec 25 07:39:19 2004 Subject: OT: [Rockhounds] MSN desktop search In-Reply-To: <20041225072721.10135.qmail@webmachine101.com> Message-ID: Does Google do email? I prefer the google search engine. Bryan -------Original Message----- --From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com --[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of magnet --Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 02:27 --To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors --Subject: Re: OT: [Rockhounds] MSN desktop search -- -- --I have loaded both the Google one (which is a beta version) --and Copernic and I find the latter much more useful. Problem --with Google for me is that it doesn't (yet) index pdf files. -- --Regards --Steve -- -- -- -------Original Message------- -- > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski -- > Subject: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] MSN desktop search -- > Sent: 24 Dec 2004 18:35:13 -- > -- > You might also want to check out Google's desktop search tool. -- > -- -- -- ----- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative -- text/plain (text body -- kept) -- text/html ----- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sat Dec 25 08:38:16 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sat Dec 25 08:39:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Merry Christmas! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001801c4eaa0$29dfb450$2a34f051@maxdata> Zeg, mannen, binnenkort is deze lijst helemaal Nederlandstalig ! Wie had dat ooit gedacht ! Mijn allerbeste wensen, overigens... No, just kidding, to make myself understood more or less worldwide : I wish you all a very happy (rest of the) Christmas day and a very prosperous, happy, healthy, peaceful and nice 2005 ! Best regards to you all, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of *Axel Emmermann *Sent: zaterdag 25 december 2004 14:46 *To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors *Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Merry Christmas! * * *Yeah, and if I had hair it would smell of magnolias... * *Unfortunately, all our minerals are in he southern part of our *country, where French is spoken... * *Maurice, een pettige kerst en ga maar eens lekker uit de bol *met oudejaar. * *Axel * *-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- *Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Maurice de Graaf *Verzonden: zaterdag 25 december 2004 12:30 *Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors *Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Merry Christmas! * * *What Axel actually want to say, but did not dare is that he is *DUTCH southern belle. Long time ago Belgium was part of the *Netherlands, but the warm hearted southerns choose to go their own way. * *Ook een zalig kerstfeest voor jouw Axel :-) * *Maurice * * * *Axel Emmermann wrote: * *>No Jeanette, I'm as far North as can be without crossing the Dutch *border... *>I have such a warm heart, however, that I always carry my own south *>with me... (liver & kidneys are ok too, but I usually don't *brag about *>that) *> *>Axel *> *>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- *>Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *>[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jeanette Wimpee *>Verzonden: zaterdag 25 december 2004 7:08 *>Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem *collectors *>Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Merry Christmas! *> *> *>Axel, you must be from the southern region of Belgium. :-) *> *> *> *> *>>Merry Cristmas to y'all *>> *>>Axel *>> *>> *>> *> *>_______________________________________________ *>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List *>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds *>Subscription Services: *>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds *> *> *> *> *>_______________________________________________ *>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List *>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds *>Subscription Services: *>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds *> *> *> *> * * * *--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative * text/plain (text body -- kept) * text/html *--- *_______________________________________________ *Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List *WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds *Subscription Services: *http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds * * * * * *_______________________________________________ *Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List *WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds *Subscription Services: *http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds * * From morningstar at att.net Sat Dec 25 10:00:18 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Sat Dec 25 10:00:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Merry Christmas! Message-ID: <122520041800.7227.41CDAAB200023F1E00001C3B21602807419D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> -------------- Original message from "Rik Dillen" : -------------- > Zeg, mannen, binnenkort is deze lijst helemaal Nederlandstalig ! Wie had dat > ooit gedacht ! > Mijn allerbeste wensen, overigens... Oh you all aren't taking over that quickly. Just wait, some of us are going to come over there, then you will see a barbarian invasion of eating and drinking from the days of old! Peace to the Low Countries, Don --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jonee at epix.net Sat Dec 25 12:27:03 2004 From: jonee at epix.net (E. L. Jones) Date: Sat Dec 25 12:27:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gowganda tillite locale? In-Reply-To: <00af01c4e9c6$950314a0$6601a8c0@nathanqa8gl7gx> References: <003a01c4e930$5ace7b80$248a4c0c@fekib> <6.1.2.0.0.20041223160930.04e386a0@mail.aloha.net> <41CB7EF8.3060800@att.net> <00af01c4e9c6$950314a0$6601a8c0@nathanqa8gl7gx> Message-ID: <41CDCD17.8030001@epix.net> I've seen this puddingstone-like deposit at the Sterling Hill Museum. Does anyone know a specific location where it may be collected fee or otherwise? Merry "Politically Corrected Redesignated National Holiday Observation Period of 25 December (? 30 calender days) With Associated and Lesser Cultural Customs Excluding Public Sector Religious Designations and Including, but not limited to, Festivus, Boxing Day, and Dolly Parton's Birthday"--Formally known as CHRISTMAS Elton Van wrote: > Henry's other ashes were installed out in the open in a cleft of > polished granite which served as a base for Henry's favorite rock - > the Gowganda tillite. The Gowganda tillite is named for a rock > occurring near that Ontario, Canada silver mining town. It is a kind > of quartzite with cobbles of bright orange red jasper. Kind of looks > like a white rock with paint splotches. From tjokela at execulink.com Sat Dec 25 14:33:08 2004 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Sat Dec 25 14:33:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gowganda tillite locale? References: <003a01c4e930$5ace7b80$248a4c0c@fekib> <6.1.2.0.0.20041223160930.04e386a0@mail.aloha.net> <41CB7EF8.3060800@att.net><00af01c4e9c6$950314a0$6601a8c0@nathanqa8gl7gx> <41CDCD17.8030001@epix.net> Message-ID: <000301c4ead1$b57fe9e0$6401a8c0@Junior> Hmmmm, if "Gowganda tillite" is another name for puddingstone, aka jasper conglomerate, it can still be easily collected at various road cuts and gravel pits on the north shore of Lake Superior. A distinctive and interesting material, red jasper pebbles in a matrix of white quartzite, I'm fond of the stuff but have never collected it personally. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "E. L. Jones" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 3:27 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Gowganda tillite locale? I've seen this puddingstone-like deposit at the Sterling Hill Museum. Does anyone know a specific location where it may be collected fee or otherwise? Merry "Politically Corrected Redesignated National Holiday Observation Period of 25 December (? 30 calender days) With Associated and Lesser Cultural Customs Excluding Public Sector Religious Designations and Including, but not limited to, Festivus, Boxing Day, and Dolly Parton's Birthday"--Formally known as CHRISTMAS Elton Van wrote: > Henry's other ashes were installed out in the open in a cleft of polished > granite which served as a base for Henry's favorite rock - the Gowganda > tillite. The Gowganda tillite is named for a rock occurring near that > Ontario, Canada silver mining town. It is a kind of quartzite with cobbles > of bright orange red jasper. Kind of looks like a white rock with paint > splotches. _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sat Dec 25 15:03:51 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sat Dec 25 14:55:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gowganda tillite locale? References: <003a01c4e930$5ace7b80$248a4c0c@fekib> <6.1.2.0.0.20041223160930.04e386a0@mail.aloha.net> <41CB7EF8.3060800@att.net><00af01c4e9c6$950314a0$6601a8c0@nathanqa8gl7gx><41CDCD17.8030001@epix.net> <000301c4ead1$b57fe9e0$6401a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <004801c4ead6$01910a40$c2a5490c@pete> Now, those are two totally different rocks. The Gowganda Tillite is more common and widespread and not so pretty; as I said in the earlier post, it's mostly a darkish gray matrix with somewhat angular fragments of pinkish granite in it. A "tillite" means an ancient, cemented together to form a hard rock, former glacial till--an unsorted mixture of different size rock cobbles, in a fine-grained (silty) matrix. The jasper conglomerate, aka puddingstone, aka part of the Lorain Quartzite, typically has a snow-white matrix with red to black pebbles, and it's a true conglomerate, a river-deposited gravelly sand deposit. It's found as glacially carried boulders here & there in eastern Michigan and Ontario, but the bedrock source is along the Ontario coast of Lake Huron, southeast of Sault Ste.-Marie. That's about what I've learned about it! Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Jokela Jr." To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 3:33 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Gowganda tillite locale? > Hmmmm, if "Gowganda tillite" is another name for puddingstone, aka jasper > conglomerate, it can still be easily collected at various road cuts and > gravel pits on the north shore of Lake Superior. > > A distinctive and interesting material, red jasper pebbles in a matrix of > white quartzite, I'm fond of the stuff but have never collected it > personally. > > Cheers, > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "E. L. Jones" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 3:27 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Gowganda tillite locale? > > > I've seen this puddingstone-like deposit at the Sterling Hill Museum. > Does anyone know a specific location where it may be collected fee or > otherwise? > > > Merry "Politically Corrected Redesignated National Holiday Observation > Period of 25 December (? 30 calender days) With Associated and Lesser > Cultural Customs Excluding Public Sector Religious Designations and > Including, but not limited to, Festivus, Boxing Day, and Dolly Parton's > Birthday"--Formally known as CHRISTMAS > > Elton > > Van wrote: > > > Henry's other ashes were installed out in the open in a cleft of polished > > granite which served as a base for Henry's favorite rock - the Gowganda > > tillite. The Gowganda tillite is named for a rock occurring near that > > Ontario, Canada silver mining town. It is a kind of quartzite with cobbles > > of bright orange red jasper. Kind of looks like a white rock with paint > > splotches. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Lapadary at aol.com Sat Dec 25 15:34:14 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Sat Dec 25 15:34:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gowganda tillite locale? Message-ID: In a message dated 12/25/2004 2:55:57 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, pjmodreski@worldnet.att.net writes: The jasper conglomerate, aka puddingstone, aka part of the Lorain Quartzite, typically has a snow-white matrix with red to black pebbles, and it's a true conglomerate, a river-deposited gravelly sand deposit. It's found as glacially carried boulders here & there in eastern Michigan and Ontario, but the bedrock source is along the Ontario coast of Lake Huron, southeast of Sault Ste.-Marie. That's about what I've learned about it! So is puddingstone the same as brecciated jasper? I've seen brecciated jasper with several locale names. Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mosasaur47 at msn.com Sat Dec 25 17:50:58 2004 From: mosasaur47 at msn.com (Kenneth Quinn) Date: Sat Dec 25 15:52:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT - Colorado mystery rock References: <004101c4e925$02c149a0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: Would the gentleman who sent me the chips from his mystery specimen in NW Colorado contact me off list - I have info for you. To the list: my apologies, I did not have his address and name saved. Kenneth Quinn --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From johnjold at comcast.net Sat Dec 25 16:12:03 2004 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Sat Dec 25 16:12:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gowganda tillite locale? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > In this case no. Brecciated means the original rock was broken up > and re cemented in some way. In the case of jasper conglomerate it is > a water deposited layer of sand and jasper pebbles. The sand was > later metamorphosed into quartzite while the jasper pebbles retained > their original shape and color looking just like the original > conglomerate but the sandstone is now a bright white color. I do have > one piece which has a pebble of brecciated jasper among the red and > black ones, but this is the only one like it I have ever seen. > > So is puddingstone the same as brecciated jasper? I've seen brecciated > jasper with several locale names. > > Grant > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From jonee at epix.net Sat Dec 25 16:42:22 2004 From: jonee at epix.net (E. L. Jones) Date: Sat Dec 25 16:42:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gowganda tillite locale? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41CE08EE.6010609@epix.net> Lapadary@aol.com wrote: >So is puddingstone the same as brecciated jasper? I've seen brecciated >jasper with several locale names. > Grant > So far as I recall "Puddingstone" originally described an almost uniform-sized, closely-packed, conglomerate found on the south coast of England. I use the term casually to describe any well mature conglomerate of closely packed uniform-sized, well rounded pebbles. Be it remembered, by definition, a breccia(pronounced something like " brey chuh") has few if any rounded/ tumbled parts. It is made from broken pieces in a matrix. The fragtments/clasts are angular, indicating they did not travel far before being reconsolidated. A conglomerate is almost completely formed from well tumbled pebbles and/ or cobbles. This conglomerate we are discussing looks like colored easter eggs in a cake-- the pebbles are moderately spaced in the specimens I've seen. It is a very attractive "Mega macro" mount and I'd like to have a boulder of it at the head of my driveway! So is there a trade name for the Lake Superior Conglomerate in question? Happy Holidays, Elton From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Dec 25 16:57:18 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Dec 25 16:56:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gowganda tillite locale? In-Reply-To: <41CDCD17.8030001@epix.net> Message-ID: Dolly Christmas????? Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens E. L. Jones Verzonden: zaterdag 25 december 2004 21:27 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Gowganda tillite locale? I've seen this puddingstone-like deposit at the Sterling Hill Museum. Does anyone know a specific location where it may be collected fee or otherwise? Merry "Politically Corrected Redesignated National Holiday Observation Period of 25 December (? 30 calender days) With Associated and Lesser Cultural Customs Excluding Public Sector Religious Designations and Including, but not limited to, Festivus, Boxing Day, and Dolly Parton's Birthday"--Formally known as CHRISTMAS Elton Van wrote: > Henry's other ashes were installed out in the open in a cleft of > polished granite which served as a base for Henry's favorite rock - > the Gowganda tillite. The Gowganda tillite is named for a rock > occurring near that Ontario, Canada silver mining town. It is a kind > of quartzite with cobbles of bright orange red jasper. Kind of looks > like a white rock with paint splotches. _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Dec 25 17:09:45 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Dec 25 17:09:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Merry Christmas! In-Reply-To: <122520041800.7227.41CDAAB200023F1E00001C3B21602807419D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: Oh, be afraid... be very afraid.... We call him the "editor from hell" ... Where he goes, the grass stops growing... Mainly because he scrapes off the sand for his daughter who collects it. Without soil the grass won't grow. Hey Rik, you asked for it (gringrin) Now guys, did I get a chistmas present: go look at http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/lists/MPNames.html and click on the "E". Then scrol down and look between "Emmarochelle" and "Emmons" and tell me what you find. Tomorrow I am going to call my dear friend Doctor Everett Gibson form NASA and thank him for bestowing this great honor upon me. Look to he heavens... I'm between Jupiter and Mars. Cheers Axel ( the real one, not the planetoid) -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens morningstar@att.net Verzonden: zaterdag 25 december 2004 19:00 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Merry Christmas! -------------- Original message from "Rik Dillen" : -------------- > Zeg, mannen, binnenkort is deze lijst helemaal Nederlandstalig ! Wie had dat > ooit gedacht ! > Mijn allerbeste wensen, overigens... Oh you all aren't taking over that quickly. Just wait, some of us are going to come over there, then you will see a barbarian invasion of eating and drinking from the days of old! Peace to the Low Countries, Don --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jayhawkmn at yahoo.com Sat Dec 25 17:20:34 2004 From: jayhawkmn at yahoo.com (June Young) Date: Sat Dec 25 17:20:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gowganda tillite locale? In-Reply-To: <000301c4ead1$b57fe9e0$6401a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <20041226012034.1969.qmail@web51003.mail.yahoo.com> Tim: Could you give me more info on this location. I would be interested in searching for this since I am in MN. Thanks June --- "Tim Jokela Jr." wrote: > Hmmmm, if "Gowganda tillite" is another name for > puddingstone, aka jasper > conglomerate, it can still be easily collected at > various road cuts and > gravel pits on the north shore of Lake Superior. > > A distinctive and interesting material, red jasper > pebbles in a matrix of > white quartzite, I'm fond of the stuff but have > never collected it > personally. > > Cheers, > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > The minerals of Ontario: > http://www.ontariominerals.com > Minerals through the microscope: > http://www.micromounts.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "E. L. Jones" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock > and gem collectors" > > Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 3:27 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Gowganda tillite locale? > > > I've seen this puddingstone-like deposit at the > Sterling Hill Museum. > Does anyone know a specific location where it may be > collected fee or > otherwise? > > > Merry "Politically Corrected Redesignated National > Holiday Observation > Period of 25 December (± 30 calender days) With > Associated and Lesser > Cultural Customs Excluding Public Sector Religious > Designations and > Including, but not limited to, Festivus, Boxing Day, > and Dolly Parton's > Birthday"--Formally known as CHRISTMAS > > Elton > > Van wrote: > > > Henry's other ashes were installed out in the > open in a cleft of polished > > granite which served as a base for Henry's > favorite rock - the Gowganda > > tillite. The Gowganda tillite is named for a rock > occurring near that > > Ontario, Canada silver mining town. It is a kind > of quartzite with cobbles > > of bright orange red jasper. Kind of looks like a > white rock with paint > > splotches. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From kahako at aloha.net Sat Dec 25 18:09:04 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Dec 25 17:38:52 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! In-Reply-To: References: <122520041800.7227.41CDAAB200023F1E00001C3B21602807419D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041225160132.03a40eb0@mail.aloha.net> Congratulations, Axel! You well deserve to be an asteroid! Yay, bravo, clap-clap-clap! Aloha, Kitty At 03:09 PM 12/25/2004, Axel wrote: >Now guys, did I get a chistmas present: go look at >http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/lists/MPNames.html and click on the "E". >Then scrol down and look between "Emmarochelle" and "Emmons" and tell me >what you find. > >Tomorrow I am going to call my dear friend Doctor Everett Gibson form NASA >and thank him for bestowing this great honor upon me. >Look to he heavens... I'm between Jupiter and Mars. > >Cheers > >Axel ( the real one, not the planetoid) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 From kahako at aloha.net Sat Dec 25 18:15:46 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Dec 25 17:45:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Holiday wishes Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041225160908.03a457f0@mail.aloha.net> Bill and I would like to extend best wishes for the holiday season to everyone. We pray for peace and understanding among nations and peoples. And for rockhounds? May love of the beauty found in the earth of this planet be beneficial to all humankind. Aloha, Kitty & Bill -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 From geenet2 at mchsi.com Sat Dec 25 17:58:11 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Sat Dec 25 17:59:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Merry Christmas! References: Message-ID: <002701c4eaee$5b317360$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Hey, no fair! Translate for us linguistically impaired.. Jeanette > Maurice, een pettige kerst en ga maar eens lekker uit de bol met oudejaar. > > Axel > > -- > [> Ook een zalig kerstfeest voor jouw Axel :-) > > Maurice > > > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Dec 25 19:08:47 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Dec 25 19:05:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gowganda tillite locale? References: <41CE08EE.6010609@epix.net> Message-ID: <41CE2A6F.7E05@Tomaszewski.net> The Lake Superior/Lake Huron conglomerate is usually referred to as 'Michigan Puddingstone'. Occasionally you will find a chunk of this with quartzite pebbles along with the jasper. I have one specimen that has a pebble of amethyst along with the jasper. The Michigan Puddingstone conglomerate is not uncommon in most Michigan gravel (and the glaciers brought a lot of it down from Canada), but you will have to do a bit of looking as it is not common either. Boulders are often large, but egg to fist size is more common. It is competent rock that you can slab and cut like agate. I like to pick it up when collecting in Michigan because it makes good trading stock (suggest cutting the specimen in half; put the better half on the display shelf with its new flat base, and slab the other half for cabs). Kreigh E. L. Jones wrote: > > Lapadary@aol.com wrote: > > >So is puddingstone the same as brecciated jasper? I've seen brecciated > >jasper with several locale names. > > Grant > > > So far as I recall "Puddingstone" originally described an almost > uniform-sized, closely-packed, conglomerate found on the south coast of > England. I use the term casually to describe any well mature > conglomerate of closely packed uniform-sized, well rounded pebbles. > > Be it remembered, by definition, a breccia(pronounced something like " > brey chuh") has few if any rounded/ tumbled parts. It is made from > broken pieces in a matrix. The fragtments/clasts are angular, > indicating they did not travel far before being reconsolidated. A > conglomerate is almost completely formed from well tumbled pebbles and/ > or cobbles. > > This conglomerate we are discussing looks like colored easter eggs in a > cake-- the pebbles are moderately spaced in the specimens I've seen. > It is a very attractive "Mega macro" mount and I'd like to have a > boulder of it at the head of my driveway! > > So is there a trade name for the Lake Superior Conglomerate in question? > > Happy Holidays, > Elton From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Dec 25 19:12:48 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Dec 25 19:09:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gowganda tillite locale? References: Message-ID: <41CE2B61.5A5C@Tomaszewski.net> I beleive the correct response to that is "Parton me" (pun intended). Kreigh Axel Emmermann wrote: > > Dolly Christmas????? > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens E. L. Jones > Verzonden: zaterdag 25 december 2004 21:27 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Gowganda tillite locale? > > I've seen this puddingstone-like deposit at the Sterling Hill Museum. > Does anyone know a specific location where it may be collected fee or > otherwise? > > Merry "Politically Corrected Redesignated National Holiday Observation > Period of 25 December (? 30 calender days) With Associated and Lesser > Cultural Customs Excluding Public Sector Religious Designations and > Including, but not limited to, Festivus, Boxing Day, and Dolly Parton's > Birthday"--Formally known as CHRISTMAS > > Elton > > Van wrote: > > > Henry's other ashes were installed out in the open in a cleft of > > polished granite which served as a base for Henry's favorite rock - > > the Gowganda tillite. The Gowganda tillite is named for a rock > > occurring near that Ontario, Canada silver mining town. It is a kind > > of quartzite with cobbles of bright orange red jasper. Kind of looks > > like a white rock with paint splotches. From xossfs at yahoo.com Sat Dec 25 19:36:25 2004 From: xossfs at yahoo.com (Stephen Stover) Date: Sat Dec 25 19:36:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fairburn Agate. In-Reply-To: <41CE2B61.5A5C@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <20041226033625.2280.qmail@web20022.mail.yahoo.com> Gotta tell you the great thing my wife got me for Christmas. I was at a Gem and mineral Show and a guy had a Fairburn Agate Cab for sale. Squarish with round coners a little over one inch on a side. I oogled over the stone. I have wanted one since I was a kid and first read about them in the Rockhound Magazine my grandmother use to get. This is the first one I have seen in 30 years of Gem and Mineals shows. Well I oogeled voer it for awhile and then flipped it over to see a $100.00 price tag and slowly put it down. My beautiful sife snuck in behind me and scooped up that puppy and gave it to me yesterday. I want all ya'll to know I got a great wife. Hope ya'll had cool rocks in your boxes like I got in mind. Merry Christmas ===== Stephen F. Stover PH (281) 829-1102 xossfs@yahoo.com Wanting to hunt rocks and play games every day! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sat Dec 25 20:02:49 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sat Dec 25 20:02:49 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nancy Hanks claim, Colorado References: <122420041740.11621.41CC5491000ADFB700002D65216028106007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <006601c4eaff$c4255ec0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Pete, I have been uploading photos to mindat.org and found the Nancy Hanks claim / mine was not listed. I don't mind adding a new locality to the list - if I have enough information to do so! Between your note and Tom Yancey's, I now have enough information. I have been adding mine photos from my 1987 honeymoon to Colorado. I found the Madonna mine and National Belle mine on mindat, but not the Rico Boy or Atlantic Cable mines (which I had photographed, and have since added to the locality database). I also added photos of Hartsel and Stoneham barite localities. I have come to find out that the locality photo category is new to that web site, but in the past 3 weeks I've added photos of at least two dozen localities. Incidently, there is a mine on the south side of Round Mountain near Tarryall which my wife and I investigated. I never found its name. It was visible from the highway (between Colorado Springs & Florissant). Alan P.S. I've scanned a bunch of slides and have added (on mindat) underground photos of the Annabel Lee mine and the Moore mine (East Faircloth vein) at Mundy's Landing, KY. I spent a full shift in the Annabel Lee in 1987 doing research for an exihibit with a friend who is a top cave photographer. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Nancy Hanks claim, Colorado > Hi Allen, > > Just a real quick reply. I read this & your last email-- I'll write back > & answer & comment on your letters--at leisure. Busy doing some "holiday > stuff", I guess. > > But the Nancy Hanks mine is on a tributary (Nancy Hanks Gulch) to Unaweep > Canyon, south of Grand Junction. There are several vein deposits in this > area, with green fluorite, and some copper minerals, and some with > amethyst too. We describe this quite briefly in our (Jack Murphy & me) > article on Colorado gemstones in the July-Aug 2002 Rocks & Minerals. No > towns nearby. I'll write back some more, > > best regards, Pete > > > -------------- Original message from "Alan Goldstein" > : -------------- > > >> I have some green botryoidal fluorite from the Nancy Hanks claim in Mesa >> Co., >> Colorado. Is it part of a mineralized district or a completely isolated >> location? Is there a nearby town that could be listed on the label? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Alan G. >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Dec 25 20:11:51 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Dec 25 20:08:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Merry Christmas! References: Message-ID: <41CE392F.19E5@Tomaszewski.net> Axel Emmermann wrote: > > Oh, be afraid... be very afraid.... > We call him the "editor from hell" ... Where he goes, the grass stops > growing... Mainly because he scrapes off the sand for his daughter who > collects it. Without soil the grass won't grow. Ah, the salt of the earth, and so crusty that the grains fall off and poison the soil (to better allow the organics to be washed out for later collecting as sand). > > Hey Rik, you asked for it (gringrin) > > Now guys, did I get a chistmas present: go look at > http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/lists/MPNames.html and click on the "E". > Then scrol down and look between "Emmarochelle" and "Emmons" and tell me > what you find. Did you get a t-shirt yet with '15513' on the front and 'Emmermann' on the back? Or did you go for a sport jersey with player 15513/Emmermann? > > Tomorrow I am going to call my dear friend Doctor Everett Gibson form NASA > and thank him for bestowing this great honor upon me. > Look to he heavens... I'm between Jupiter and Mars. Gee, I put 'planetoid 15513' into Google to find the coordinates and it seems to be a lot farther away (YMMV).... ;-} > > Cheers > > Axel ( the real one, not the planetoid) ...and Christmas Cheers to you ! Yes, I had rocks in my Christmas Stocking (hung by the chimney with care), but the rock you got was a whole lot lot bigger gift, and more interesting. How soon can the list come to collect on your new claim? Just how many minerals is it a type locality for? "Season's Greetings" and "Happy Holidays" (does that count for PC?); Merry Christmas!! Thanks for brightening an already wonderful day! Kreigh > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens morningstar@att.net > Verzonden: zaterdag 25 december 2004 19:00 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Merry Christmas! > > -------------- Original message from "Rik Dillen" > : -------------- > > > Zeg, mannen, binnenkort is deze lijst helemaal Nederlandstalig ! Wie had > dat > > ooit gedacht ! > > Mijn allerbeste wensen, overigens... > > Oh you all aren't taking over that quickly. Just wait, some of us are going > to come over there, then you will see a barbarian invasion of eating and > drinking from the days of old! > > Peace to the Low Countries, > > Don From jonee at epix.net Sat Dec 25 16:41:38 2004 From: jonee at epix.net (E. L. Jones) Date: Sat Dec 25 20:12:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gowganda tillite locale? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41CE08C2.4010403@epix.net> Lapadary@aol.com wrote: >So is puddingstone the same as brecciated jasper? I've seen brecciated >jasper with several locale names. > Grant > So far as I recall "Puddingstone" originally described an almost uniform-sized, closely-packed, conglomerate found on the south coast of England. I use the term casually to describe any well mature conglomerate of closely packed uniform-sized, well rounded pebbles. Be it remembered, by definition, a breccia(pronounced something like " brey chuh") has few if any rounded/ tumbled parts. It is made from broken pieces in a matrix. The fragtments/clasts are angular, indicating they did not travel far before being reconsolidated. A conglomerate is almost completely formed from well tumbled pebbles and/ or cobbles. This conglomerate we are discussing looks like colored easter eggs in a cake-- the pebbles are moderately spaced in the specimens I've seen. It is a very attractive "Mega macro" mount and I'd like to have a boulder of it at the head of my driveway! Happy Holidays, Elton From tam2819 at cox.net Sat Dec 25 21:23:35 2004 From: tam2819 at cox.net (T.A.Masters) Date: Sat Dec 25 21:23:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Merry Christmas! References: Message-ID: <41CE4AD7.4000804@cox.net> Dear Planetoid Axel. Mahvelus Dear, what will come next. Congratulations, Terrie From LarryRush at worldnet.att.net Sat Dec 25 07:22:17 2004 From: LarryRush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sun Dec 26 08:09:19 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Belated Christmas Wishes Message-ID: <000201c4eb65$44e1f5e0$828a4c0c@fekib> THE NIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS (A COMPUTER VISIT FROM ST. NICCOLITE) (With apologies to Clement C. Moore) By Larry Rush 'Twas the night before Christmas, when through the Rockhound's list, Not a subscriber was posting, neither mister nor miss; The e-mail was stored on the server with care, In hopes that the spammers would not visit there. The rockhounds were nestled all snug in their beds, While visions of emeralds danced in their heads. And I, clutching my Estwing and old collecting pack, Had just settled down for a long winters nap, When down in the computer room there arose such a clatter, I sprang from my bed to see what was the matter. Away to the hallway, and crossing the floor, I tore down the stairs and threw open the door. The light from the Gateway monitor below, Gave the luster of mid-day to objects aglow, When what to my wondering eyes should appear, But an internet graphic; a sleigh and eight rockhounds there. With a little old webmaster, so lively and bright, I knew in a moment it must be St. Niccolite. More rapid than Microsoft his posters they came, And he whistled and shouted, and called them by name. Now Kreigh, now Alex, now Van and Lanny, On Keith, on John, on Margaret and Kitty! To the top of the screen, to the top of the list, Now mail away, mail away, mail away quick! And, as subscribers to AOL often cry, When they meet with a virus, the tempers they fly, So on to Bett's home page the collectors they flew, With the screen full of slabs, and St. Niccolite, too. And then in a twinkling, I saw on John's site, Beautiful images of fossils and rhodochrosite. As I clicked more on my mouse to surf around, Back onto my screen came St. Nick with a bound. He was dressed all in demin, from his feet to his shirt, And his clothes were all stained with limonite dirt. A bundle of crystals he had flung on his back, And he looked like a miner with a full collecting pack. His eyes twinkled like zircons, his dimples how merry! His cheeks like rose quartz, his nose like agate of cherry! His droll little mouth was drawn up with an apatite, And the beard of his chin was as white as calcite. The stump of a pipe he held firm with his bite, And the smoke encircled his head like hemimorphite. He had a broad face and a little round belly, That shook when he laughed like a bowl of opal (jelly). He was chubby and plump, a right jolly old rockhound, And I laughed when I saw him, right out of the Red Cloud. A wink of his eye and a twist of his head, Soon gave me to know he had galena and lead! He spoke not a word but went straight to his right, And filled all the Perkies with beryl and wulfenite. And laying his hammer aside of the frame, And giving a nod, to the Escape key he came. He sprang to his pickup, to his pals gave a whistle, And away they all browsed like the down of a thistle. But I heard him exclaim, 'ere he faded from sight, Good collecting to all, (and for the fluorescents, a Good Light!). Merry Christmas to the Rockhound Group. May all your presents be crystallized! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at aloha.net Sun Dec 26 10:05:30 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Dec 26 09:35:57 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Belated Christmas Wishes In-Reply-To: <000201c4eb65$44e1f5e0$828a4c0c@fekib> References: <000201c4eb65$44e1f5e0$828a4c0c@fekib> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041226080152.0340d540@mail.aloha.net> Very good, Larry. I'm flattered to be in the company of the other "reindeer." However, I think you meant "Axel," not "Alex". didn't you? Aloha, Kitty >Now Kreigh, now Alex, now Van and Lanny, > >On Keith, on John, on Margaret and Kitty! -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 From kadok at infowest.com Sun Dec 26 09:43:25 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sun Dec 26 09:43:25 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20041225160132.03a40eb0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <20041226174321.2A594CB9953@delivery.infowest.com> Hey, yes! I second Kitty's statement! Margaret Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! Congratulations, Axel! You well deserve to be an asteroid! Yay, bravo, clap-clap-clap! Aloha, Kitty At 03:09 PM 12/25/2004, Axel wrote: >Now guys, did I get a chistmas present: go look at >http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/lists/MPNames.html and click on the "E". >Then scrol down and look between "Emmarochelle" and "Emmons" and tell me >what you find. > >Tomorrow I am going to call my dear friend Doctor Everett Gibson form NASA >and thank him for bestowing this great honor upon me. >Look to he heavens... I'm between Jupiter and Mars. > >Cheers > >Axel ( the real one, not the planetoid) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Dec 26 10:51:14 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Dec 26 10:50:52 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Merry Christmas! In-Reply-To: <41CE392F.19E5@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Kreigh wrote: >Did you get a t-shirt yet with '15513' on the front and 'Emmermann' on >the back? Or did you go for a sport jersey with player 15513/Emmermann? Hmmm; that was not included, I'm afraid... >Gee, I put 'planetoid 15513' into Google to find the coordinates and it >seems to be a lot farther away (YMMV).... ;-} Darn, I've been had! Ah, but look who's up here with me... Hey... Elvis (frantically waving)... Seriously, just saw Elvis floating by. Cheers ;-))))) Axel From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Dec 26 10:56:34 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Dec 26 10:56:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Merry Christmas! In-Reply-To: <41CE4AD7.4000804@cox.net> Message-ID: Thanks Terrie, I just got off the phone with the man who gave me this cristmas present. "Were you blown away?" was the first he said ;-)))) Yes, I was flabbergasted I asked if NASA could give me a ride to go and inspect my planetoid, maybe plat a flag or so... It seems very unlikely that I would have enough money to pay for the ride.... ;-))) AWESOME!!! Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens T.A.Masters Verzonden: zondag 26 december 2004 6:24 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Merry Christmas! Dear Planetoid Axel. Mahvelus Dear, what will come next. Congratulations, Terrie _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Dec 26 11:01:30 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Dec 26 11:01:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20041225160132.03a40eb0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: Thank you... bow bow... thank you very much... bow bow curtain closes curtain opens again Thank you... bow bow... thank you very much... bow bow ;-))))) Cheers Axel 15513 -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kitty & Bill Heacox Verzonden: zondag 26 december 2004 3:09 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! Congratulations, Axel! You well deserve to be an asteroid! Yay, bravo, clap-clap-clap! Aloha, Kitty At 03:09 PM 12/25/2004, Axel wrote: >Now guys, did I get a chistmas present: go look at >http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/lists/MPNames.html and click on the "E". >Then scrol down and look between "Emmarochelle" and "Emmons" and tell me >what you find. > >Tomorrow I am going to call my dear friend Doctor Everett Gibson form NASA >and thank him for bestowing this great honor upon me. >Look to he heavens... I'm between Jupiter and Mars. > >Cheers > >Axel ( the real one, not the planetoid) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Dec 26 11:05:17 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Dec 26 11:04:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! In-Reply-To: <20041226174321.2A594CB9953@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: Hi Margaret Thank you... bow bow... thank you vey much... bow bow Hernia starting to show.... Cheers Axel 15513 (seems it's customary to put the number of your asteroid under your signature, if you got one) PS: I'm a show-off aren't I???? Hahaaaaaaaaa -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm Verzonden: zondag 26 december 2004 18:43 Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! Hey, yes! I second Kitty's statement! Margaret Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! Congratulations, Axel! You well deserve to be an asteroid! Yay, bravo, clap-clap-clap! Aloha, Kitty At 03:09 PM 12/25/2004, Axel wrote: >Now guys, did I get a chistmas present: go look at >http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/lists/MPNames.html and click on the "E". >Then scrol down and look between "Emmarochelle" and "Emmons" and tell me >what you find. > >Tomorrow I am going to call my dear friend Doctor Everett Gibson form NASA >and thank him for bestowing this great honor upon me. >Look to he heavens... I'm between Jupiter and Mars. > >Cheers > >Axel ( the real one, not the planetoid) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at aloha.net Sun Dec 26 11:50:30 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Dec 26 11:20:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! In-Reply-To: References: <20041226174321.2A594CB9953@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041226094746.0340e4e0@mail.aloha.net> Yep. Some time ago I called you a "shrinking violet" ---and ended up giving a brief lecture on poetic irony. Aloha, Kitty >Thank you... bow bow... thank you vey much... bow bow >Hernia starting to show.... > >Cheers > >Axel >15513 (seems it's customary to put the number of your asteroid under your >signature, if you got one) > >PS: I'm a show-off aren't I???? Hahaaaaaaaaa -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release Date: 12/26/2004 From corndogs at charter.net Sun Dec 26 11:30:08 2004 From: corndogs at charter.net (corndogs@charter.net) Date: Sun Dec 26 11:30:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Massive Earthquake and what it might mean to us Rockhounds Message-ID: <3k70mg$joqmtu@mxip15a.cluster1.charter.net> HI THERE!! I don't post very often but I was wondering what all of you EXPERTS thought of the earthquake that happened yesterday in Indonasia. Do you think that there will be uncovered gemstone deposits or some major errosion that will expose something fantastic?? I have a 10+ pound ruby from Karnataka that according to the person I got it from, is one of the 4-5 best large specimens ever found. And supposedly they aren't finding anymore. I believe him because he is an expert, but of course, I could be wrong :-) I am just wondering what the outcomes of this catostrophic event might have for us Rockhounds :-) Any ideas?!?!?! Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, NE CornDogs@Charter.net Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sun Dec 26 11:53:54 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sun Dec 26 11:45:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! References: Message-ID: <001b01c4eb84$a54528c0$b1a4490c@pete> Dear Axel, I want to add my congratulations to those of all the others, about your namesake up there. That's quite an honor, and well deserved! I looked at the Minor Planets website you gave the link to; I'm impressed (1) with how many have been discovered and catalogued; (2) how many have been named (I guess I didn't realize that all those planetoids are given names; one hears a lot about comets, but not so much about the asteroids; there must be a lot more of these, than the comets!); and (3)... just the whole business, contratulations again! I see that your object was discovered in 1999, and the discovery site is given as "Anderson Mesa". I wonder where that is--sounds like it could be New Mexico (or other places, I'm sure--just guessing). Also that the discoverer is given as "LONEOS"; I don't know what that means, but I'm guessing it's some (automated?) asteroid-searching project, rather than an individual; I see from the list of Discoverers on that site, it's ranked as the second-most prolific discoverer of MP's between 1998-2004; 4899 objects discovered. (I'm sure I could satisfy my curiosity with a very quick web search on LONEOS, and then I'd know.) Congratulations again, and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! Pete Modreski, Denver CO From johnjold at comcast.net Sun Dec 26 11:47:59 2004 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Sun Dec 26 11:48:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS Message-ID: <0B9ABEEE-5777-11D9-A970-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> I started looking into hand held GPS and quickly got out of my depth. What do you think. Are they great or a pain. How much (little) can you get away with in price. Any good brands out there? Features to look for? Back in 1997 I got confused at the chimney beds on the way to Quartzsite. I ran out of light and just gathered enough firewood for the night. I slept baking and freezing on alternate sides every half hour. I found the van when it was light enough to move around the desert just as the rain hit. I don't expect to be that lucky the next time so I kinda want to avoid it. From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sun Dec 26 12:19:27 2004 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sun Dec 26 12:19:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Massive Earthquake and what it might mean to us Rockhounds In-Reply-To: <3k70mg$joqmtu@mxip15a.cluster1.charter.net> References: <3k70mg$joqmtu@mxip15a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <41CF1CCF.8020702@xs4all.nl> Thinking about uncovered gemstone deposits less than 24 hours after a major disaster (11.000 casualties and counting), is WAY beyond decency in my opinion. Cheers, Maurice corndogs@charter.net wrote: >HI THERE!! > >I don't post very often but I was wondering what all of you EXPERTS thought of the earthquake that happened yesterday in Indonasia. Do you think that there will be uncovered gemstone deposits or some major errosion that will expose something fantastic?? > >I have a 10+ pound ruby from Karnataka that according to the person I got it from, is one of the 4-5 best large specimens ever found. And supposedly they aren't finding anymore. I believe him because he is an expert, but of course, I could be wrong :-) > >I am just wondering what the outcomes of this catostrophic event might have for us Rockhounds :-) Any ideas?!?!?! >Brenda > >Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan >Assisting Boston Terriers >Kearney, NE >CornDogs@Charter.net >Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers >To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! >Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From tam2819 at cox.net Sun Dec 26 12:25:18 2004 From: tam2819 at cox.net (T.A.Masters) Date: Sun Dec 26 12:25:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Massive Earthquake and what it might mean to us Rockhounds References: <3k70mg$joqmtu@mxip15a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <41CF1E2E.60407@cox.net> Sorry, the comment is way beyond the realm of human decency. Teresa From tam2819 at cox.net Sun Dec 26 12:28:40 2004 From: tam2819 at cox.net (T.A.Masters) Date: Sun Dec 26 12:28:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Merry Christmas! References: Message-ID: <41CF1EF8.8090208@cox.net> Axel, I'd play Betsy Ross and stitch your flag were it ever possible to plant it. You know, we do have a fine bunch of wonderful people on this list. At this moment they are all recognizing you Axel, a well deserved honor to a very fine gentleman with a wicked sense of humor. Terrie From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sun Dec 26 12:31:21 2004 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sun Dec 26 12:31:20 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41CF1F99.1070903@xs4all.nl> Axel, Any chance that we get to see a picture of your planet? Maybe we can find some resembances :-) Do you know how big the new addition to the Emmermann family is? (Any possible relation with the first sentence of this mail is purely coincidental...) Congretulations, Maurice Axel Emmermann wrote: >Hi Margaret > >Thank you... bow bow... thank you vey much... bow bow >Hernia starting to show.... > >Cheers > >Axel >15513 (seems it's customary to put the number of your asteroid under your >signature, if you got one) > >PS: I'm a show-off aren't I???? Hahaaaaaaaaa > > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm >Verzonden: zondag 26 december 2004 18:43 >Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors' >Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! > > >Hey, yes! I second Kitty's statement! > >Margaret > >Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! > >Congratulations, Axel! You well deserve to be an asteroid! Yay, bravo, >clap-clap-clap! > >Aloha, Kitty > > >At 03:09 PM 12/25/2004, Axel wrote: > > >>Now guys, did I get a chistmas present: go look at >>http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/lists/MPNames.html and click on the "E". >>Then scrol down and look between "Emmarochelle" and "Emmons" and tell me >>what you find. >> >>Tomorrow I am going to call my dear friend Doctor Everett Gibson form NASA >>and thank him for bestowing this great honor upon me. >>Look to he heavens... I'm between Jupiter and Mars. >> >>Cheers >> >>Axel ( the real one, not the planetoid) >> >> > > >-- >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jbryankramer at msn.com Sun Dec 26 12:44:16 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Dec 26 12:44:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Massive Earthquake and what it might mean to usRockhounds In-Reply-To: <41CF1CCF.8020702@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: I thought it was rather incredible that some Indonesian government official stated that "they had never had anything like this happen before in Sumatra'. Krakatoa forgotten already, and it produced 40 meter tsunamis and up to 130,000 dead. Of course no reporter knew enough to question the statement either. Bryan -------Original Message----- -- --Thinking about uncovered gemstone deposits less than 24 hours after a --major disaster (11.000 casualties and counting), is WAY --beyond decency --in my opinion. -- --Cheers, --Maurice -- -- -- -- --corndogs@charter.net wrote: -- -->HI THERE!! --> -->I don't post very often but I was wondering what all of you EXPERTS -->thought of the earthquake that happened yesterday in --Indonasia. Do you -->think that there will be uncovered gemstone deposits or some major -->errosion that will expose something fantastic?? --> -->I have a 10+ pound ruby from Karnataka that according to the --person I -->got it from, is one of the 4-5 best large specimens ever found. And -->supposedly they aren't finding anymore. I believe him --because he is an -->expert, but of course, I could be wrong :-) --> -->I am just wondering what the outcomes of this catostrophic --event might -->have for us Rockhounds :-) Any ideas?!?!?! Brenda --> -->Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan -->Assisting Boston Terriers -->Kearney, NE -->CornDogs@Charter.net -->Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston -->Terriers -->To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU --are the World! -->Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, --because your character is what you really are, while your --reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown --> --> --> --> -->_______________________________________________ -->Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List -->WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds -->Subscription Services: -->http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --> --> --> --> -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- From erongo at mweb.co.za Sun Dec 26 13:03:09 2004 From: erongo at mweb.co.za (Willie Steyn) Date: Sun Dec 26 13:03:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! References: <41CF1F99.1070903@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <006b01c4eb8e$4f118c50$8e91fea9@Namibiaminerals> Baie geluk Axel. Jy het dit voorwaar verdien.Ons wat net elke dag die e-posse lees en leer vanaf die meesters dink dit was welgedaan. Willem jnr. Suid Afrika - Original Message ----- From: "Maurice de Graaf" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 10:31 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! > Axel, > > Any chance that we get to see a picture of your planet? Maybe we can find > some resembances :-) > > Do you know how big the new addition to the Emmermann family is? > (Any possible relation with the first sentence of this mail is purely > coincidental...) > > Congretulations, > Maurice > > > > > > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > >>Hi Margaret >> >>Thank you... bow bow... thank you vey much... bow bow >>Hernia starting to show.... >> >>Cheers >> >>Axel >>15513 (seems it's customary to put the number of your asteroid under your >>signature, if you got one) >> >>PS: I'm a show-off aren't I???? Hahaaaaaaaaa >> >> >>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >>Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >>[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm >>Verzonden: zondag 26 december 2004 18:43 >>Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>collectors' >>Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! >> >> >>Hey, yes! I second Kitty's statement! >> >>Margaret >> >>Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! >> >>Congratulations, Axel! You well deserve to be an asteroid! Yay, bravo, >>clap-clap-clap! >> >>Aloha, Kitty >> >> >>At 03:09 PM 12/25/2004, Axel wrote: >> >>>Now guys, did I get a chistmas present: go look at >>>http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/lists/MPNames.html and click on the "E". >>>Then scrol down and look between "Emmarochelle" and "Emmons" and tell me >>>what you find. >>> >>>Tomorrow I am going to call my dear friend Doctor Everett Gibson form >>>NASA >>>and thank him for bestowing this great honor upon me. >>>Look to he heavens... I'm between Jupiter and Mars. >>> >>>Cheers >>> >>>Axel ( the real one, not the planetoid) >>> >> >> >>-- >>No virus found in this outgoing message. >>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sun Dec 26 14:02:01 2004 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sun Dec 26 14:02:25 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! In-Reply-To: <006b01c4eb8e$4f118c50$8e91fea9@Namibiaminerals> References: <41CF1F99.1070903@xs4all.nl> <006b01c4eb8e$4f118c50$8e91fea9@Namibiaminerals> Message-ID: <41CF34D9.4010007@xs4all.nl> The Axel story made me remember. A few nights ago I was watching through my telescope at the heavens, when I saw something I never saw before. I shot a short movie of it. I was looking to the south from the Netherlands. See for yourself: http://maurice.strahlen.org/telescope Cheers, Maurice Willie Steyn wrote: > Baie geluk Axel. Jy het dit voorwaar verdien.Ons wat net elke dag die > e-posse lees en leer vanaf die meesters dink dit was welgedaan. > Willem jnr. > Suid Afrika > > > - Original Message ----- From: "Maurice de Graaf" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 10:31 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! > > >> Axel, >> >> Any chance that we get to see a picture of your planet? Maybe we can >> find some resembances :-) >> >> Do you know how big the new addition to the Emmermann family is? >> (Any possible relation with the first sentence of this mail is purely >> coincidental...) >> >> Congretulations, >> Maurice >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Axel Emmermann wrote: >> >>> Hi Margaret >>> >>> Thank you... bow bow... thank you vey much... bow bow >>> Hernia starting to show.... >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Axel >>> 15513 (seems it's customary to put the number of your asteroid under >>> your >>> signature, if you got one) >>> >>> PS: I'm a show-off aren't I???? Hahaaaaaaaaa >>> >>> >>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >>> Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >>> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm >>> Verzonden: zondag 26 december 2004 18:43 >>> Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>> collectors' >>> Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! >>> >>> >>> Hey, yes! I second Kitty's statement! >>> >>> Margaret >>> >>> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! >>> >>> Congratulations, Axel! You well deserve to be an asteroid! Yay, >>> bravo, >>> clap-clap-clap! >>> >>> Aloha, Kitty >>> >>> >>> At 03:09 PM 12/25/2004, Axel wrote: >>> >>>> Now guys, did I get a chistmas present: go look at >>>> http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/lists/MPNames.html and click on the >>>> "E". >>>> Then scrol down and look between "Emmarochelle" and "Emmons" and >>>> tell me >>>> what you find. >>>> >>>> Tomorrow I am going to call my dear friend Doctor Everett Gibson >>>> form NASA >>>> and thank him for bestowing this great honor upon me. >>>> Look to he heavens... I'm between Jupiter and Mars. >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> >>>> Axel ( the real one, not the planetoid) >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>> Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Sun Dec 26 14:45:13 2004 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Sun Dec 26 14:45:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS Message-ID: <1ad.2dd64224.2f0098f9@aol.com> For about $170 I got the Magellan E- Trex legend. It works great. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dri.anna at verizon.net Sun Dec 26 15:18:42 2004 From: dri.anna at verizon.net (Dri-Anna) Date: Sun Dec 26 15:18:45 2004 Subject: OT: [Rockhounds] MSN desktop search References: <20041225072721.10135.qmail@webmachine101.com> Message-ID: <000c01c4eba1$3e125f70$6401a8c0@Dri> I use Copernic which is free and I love it. It required near three hours to sort through and place in correct folders (Photos, e-books, etc) 180 gigs of data. Now every thing is in subject folders, No more having to search all folders and/or drives for one file. However, it is for Windows XP only. I use Google several times a day for online searches. I am not sure if I want Google searching the files on my personal puter', thus Google Desktop Search is not an option for me. I found it necessary to unsubscribe from Gmail as the Spam was horrible. I had Gmail set up in my POP accounts within my email client. My, "I Hate Spam", was blocking upwards of 30 emails an hour associated with my Gmail account. Dri-Anna Davis WA - USA http://www.twospirit.net/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "magnet" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 11:27 PM Subject: Re: OT: [Rockhounds] MSN desktop search >I have loaded both the Google one (which is a beta version) and Copernic >and I find the latter much more useful. Problem with Google for me is that >it doesn't (yet) index pdf files. > > Regards > Steve > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > > Subject: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] MSN desktop search > > Sent: 24 Dec 2004 18:35:13 > > > > You might also want to check out Google's desktop search tool. > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 26 15:33:13 2004 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sun Dec 26 15:33:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS In-Reply-To: <0B9ABEEE-5777-11D9-A970-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20041226233313.39979.qmail@web51004.mail.yahoo.com> I have an E-trex Venture. It's fairly basic, but works well. I can use it hand-held to zero in on a collecting locality, or find my way back to the van. It can also be hooked in to a laptop runnig Street Atlas or TopoUSA for navigation in the van. I haven't done this so far (no laptop). I think the model I have only cost about $ 100. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales www.sauktown.com --- John Joldersma wrote: > I started looking into hand held GPS and > quickly got out of my > depth. > What do you think. Are they great or a pain. How > much (little) can you > get away with in price. Any good brands out there? > Features to look > for? > Back in 1997 I got confused at the chimney beds > on the way to > Quartzsite. > I ran out of light and just gathered enough firewood > for the night. I > slept > baking and freezing on alternate sides every half > hour. I found the van > when it was light enough to move around the desert > just as the rain hit. > I don't expect to be that lucky the next time so I > kinda want to avoid > it. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo From corndogs at charter.net Sun Dec 26 17:03:59 2004 From: corndogs at charter.net (corndogs@charter.net) Date: Sun Dec 26 17:04:05 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Massive Earthquake and what it might mean to us Rockhounds Message-ID: <3khj1h$f91bii@mxip07a.cluster1.charter.net> I am so sorry if you took this as that....I meant no disrespect at all!! In fact, I was thinking it might be one of the wonderful after-effects of catastrophy in that it might provide jobs and economic recovery for the areas hardest hit!!! In all of the posts I have read on this list, I know that the list owner and most members want this to be a list that stays on topic. I thought this was staying on topic. Unfortunately, I cannot do anything about the deaths of those people...no matter how tragic it is. However, I might be able to purchase some things from them and aid in their economic recovery. Yes...it is horrible that so many lives have been lost. That so much property has been damaged and those that have so little have lost even that!!! However, this is not a 'human rights' list, it is a list about rocks :-) I was trying to keep my post about rocks...that is all!! Again, I meant no disrespect and I apologize to those who were offended.... Brenda ============================================================ From: Maurice de Graaf Date: 2004/12/26 Sun PM 02:19:27 CST To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Massive Earthquake and what it might mean to us Rockhounds Thinking about uncovered gemstone deposits less than 24 hours after a major disaster (11.000 casualties and counting), is WAY beyond decency in my opinion. Cheers, Maurice corndogs@charter.net wrote: >HI THERE!! > >I don't post very often but I was wondering what all of you EXPERTS thought of the earthquake that happened yesterday in Indonasia. Do you think that there will be uncovered gemstone deposits or some major errosion that will expose something fantastic?? > >I have a 10+ pound ruby from Karnataka that according to the person I got it from, is one of the 4-5 best large specimens ever found. And supposedly they aren't finding anymore. I believe him because he is an expert, but of course, I could be wrong :-) > >I am just wondering what the outcomes of this catostrophic event might have for us Rockhounds :-) Any ideas?!?!?! >Brenda > >Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan >Assisting Boston Terriers >Kearney, NE >CornDogs@Charter.net >Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers >To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! >Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ============================================================ Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, NE CornDogs@Charter.net Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown From magnet at crocoite.com Sun Dec 26 18:31:53 2004 From: magnet at crocoite.com (magnet) Date: Sun Dec 26 18:31:42 2004 Subject: OT: [Rockhounds] MSN desktop search Message-ID: <20041227023153.2203.qmail@webmachine101.com> Only if it's Outlook... -------Original Message------- > From: J Bryan Kramer > Subject: RE: OT: [Rockhounds] MSN desktop search > Sent: 25 Dec 2004 05:39:12 > > Does Google do email? I prefer the google search engine. > > Bryan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dmschmidt at sprint.ca Sun Dec 26 18:39:18 2004 From: dmschmidt at sprint.ca (michael schmidt) Date: Sun Dec 26 18:35:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Massive Earthquake and what it might mean tous Rockhounds References: <3khj1h$f91bii@mxip07a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <006701c4ebbd$43e64fd0$64525318@johnny> Brenda don't worry about it...I doubt most people took your message as opportunitsic. The couple of people that voiced their opinions about it need to lighten up. And yes, it was on-topic....unlike a lot of posts from those who criticised you. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gemcollectors" Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 5:03 PM Subject: Re: Re: [Rockhounds] Massive Earthquake and what it might mean tous Rockhounds > I am so sorry if you took this as that....I meant no disrespect at all!! In fact, I was thinking it might be one of the wonderful after-effects of catastrophy in that it might provide jobs and economic recovery for the areas hardest hit!!! > > In all of the posts I have read on this list, I know that the list owner and most members want this to be a list that stays on topic. I thought this was staying on topic. Unfortunately, I cannot do anything about the deaths of those people...no matter how tragic it is. However, I might be able to purchase some things from them and aid in their economic recovery. > > Yes...it is horrible that so many lives have been lost. That so much property has been damaged and those that have so little have lost even that!!! However, this is not a 'human rights' list, it is a list about rocks :-) I was trying to keep my post about rocks...that is all!! > > Again, I meant no disrespect and I apologize to those who were offended.... > Brenda > ============================================================ > From: Maurice de Graaf > Date: 2004/12/26 Sun PM 02:19:27 CST > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Massive Earthquake and what it might mean to us > Rockhounds > > Thinking about uncovered gemstone deposits less than 24 hours after a > major disaster (11.000 casualties and counting), is WAY beyond decency > in my opinion. > > Cheers, > Maurice > > > > > corndogs@charter.net wrote: > > >HI THERE!! > > > >I don't post very often but I was wondering what all of you EXPERTS thought of the earthquake that happened yesterday in Indonasia. Do you think that there will be uncovered gemstone deposits or some major errosion that will expose something fantastic?? > > > >I have a 10+ pound ruby from Karnataka that according to the person I got it from, is one of the 4-5 best large specimens ever found. And supposedly they aren't finding anymore. I believe him because he is an expert, but of course, I could be wrong :-) > > > >I am just wondering what the outcomes of this catostrophic event might have for us Rockhounds :-) Any ideas?!?!?! > >Brenda > > > >Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan > >Assisting Boston Terriers > >Kearney, NE > >CornDogs@Charter.net > >Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers > >To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! > >Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > ============================================================ > > > Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan > Assisting Boston Terriers > Kearney, NE > CornDogs@Charter.net > Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers > To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! > Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From geenet2 at mchsi.com Sun Dec 26 21:47:12 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Sun Dec 26 21:48:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! References: <41CF1F99.1070903@xs4all.nl><006b01c4eb8e$4f118c50$8e91fea9@Namibiaminerals> <41CF34D9.4010007@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <003a01c4ebd7$83a45ee0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Ok, poets out there...... Finish this ode to Axel... "When you wish upon a star....." 1. "Could be Axel from afar.... From geenet2 at mchsi.com Sun Dec 26 21:49:24 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Sun Dec 26 21:50:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS References: <20041226233313.39979.qmail@web51004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004701c4ebd7$d2720400$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> > I have an E-trex Venture. It's fairly basic, but works > well. I can use it hand-held to zero in on a > collecting locality, or find my way back to the van. Hey, I would find that very handy at the Mall... Jeanette --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jemstone at amug.org Sun Dec 26 22:00:46 2004 From: jemstone at amug.org (John McLaughlin) Date: Sun Dec 26 22:00:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS References: <0B9ABEEE-5777-11D9-A970-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> Message-ID: <002f01c4ebd9$691fd160$f25a2741@MCWIDOM> I've been using a GPS unit for quite a while now. My first unit was a basic Garmin Etrex and it worked well. It would certainly keep one from getting lost, assuming it was used to keep track of the starting point and, if in difficult terrain, waypoints on the way in.. I used it to find new sites (for which I have GPS positions), make sure I can get back to excellent collecting areas and to keep from getting lost. About three months ago I bought myself an early Christmas present, a Garmin GPSmap 60C, plus the topo maps of the US. The maps are only 1:100,000 but they are sufficient for route planning. Now I can lay out a route to a new area at home on the computer screen. I just click along the route anywhere it might get confusing. I believe the routing program allows for 250 waypoints for a route, plenty for most purposes. Since there are many old roads in the desert, finding one's way to an infrequently visited mine is not always easy. Being able to lay out the route and then download it into the GPS unit is great. The downloaded map and route show the terrain and roads with a small arrow indicating where you are on the route. It would be better if the topos were more up to date. My guess is that they date from about 1976 to 1979, at least in the area I frequently travel. However, they are fine for most off highway navigation purposes. They are useless in a fast growing city - navigation in a town requires a different set of maps. The mapping unit has a tracking feature that is pretty much like a bread crumb trail. You have a option of setting either a time interval or a distance interval when you are hiking in a new area. I usually have the unit create a waypoint three times every tenth of a mile - 30 waypoints per mile. This provides a pretty detailed track that can be followed back to my point of origin quite easily. One other feature that I like is the trip odometer. Pretty much like your car's odometer - it tracks your actual path and gives you the cumulative mileage. The simple GPS units tell you how far you have come in a straight line. This feature tells you how far you actually walked, quite a difference in broken country. You can make sure you won't get lost for under $100. The units that display maps and have a lot of features, plus the cost of the maps, total more like $450. Well worth it to me, but I am able to get out a lot and Arizona has a lot of superb places in which to get lost. However, the most valuable features on the GPS units are the ability to mark a great collecting location one finds through prospecting and the ability to lay out a detailed route to a new area. The mapping feature is not necessary for either use. You can use the Topo Zone maps to get the GPS points needed to lay out a route. The onscreen maps are more a luxury. If you continue wandering around western Arizona a GPS unit is a great safety net. John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Joldersma" > I started looking into hand held GPS and quickly got out of my depth. > What do you think. Are they great or a pain. How much (little) can you > get away with in price. Any good brands out there? Features to look for? From rainforest1950 at lycos.com Sun Dec 26 22:33:55 2004 From: rainforest1950 at lycos.com (rain forest) Date: Sun Dec 26 22:33:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] It's rather sad Brenda. Message-ID: <20041227063355.2B77C3384B@ws7-3.us4.outblaze.com> Your postscript talks of saving abused dogs; yet your post ignored the human toll and made play of what gemstones could be found at the expense of the loss. It seems your priorities need some re-examining. David Bese The Rainforest Hippie Pt. Orchard, Wa. -- _______________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 From pchil at botsnet.bw Sun Dec 26 11:33:09 2004 From: pchil at botsnet.bw (P.C. Hulley) Date: Mon Dec 27 00:37:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Merry Christmas! References: <41CE392F.19E5@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000201bf1a7d$e7aa6000$ed48a7a8@hulley> To all the list members, especially those who's colourful words keep (Axel et al) us all smiling, a really wonderful festive season, and a prosperous new year. As for the mineral specimen...... Santa brought me a doubly terminated quartz,crystal part smoky, part amethyst from the Brandberg in Namibia, complete with windows and phantoms going to right to the heart! I'm in heaven. On a more serious note; been watching CNN and SKY news all day. The power of nature never ceases to hold one in awe, especially when faced with a disaster like the one unfolding in East Asia. Our thoughts and prayers are with those who have been touched more personally by this tragedy, and those who have loved ones in the area. Hildagarde From tangojuli at yahoo.com Mon Dec 27 06:22:57 2004 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Mon Dec 27 06:23:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS question In-Reply-To: <002f01c4ebd9$691fd160$f25a2741@MCWIDOM> Message-ID: <20041227142258.64297.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com> John-- (or list!) I leave tomorrow for desert rock collecting in Bouse area (AZ), and CA and Nevada. A friend loaned me his Garmin Etrex. I figured I'd read the directions on the plane, since I've never used one before. I'm glad I read your post before leaving. If I don't have an account with them can I still download the maps from Topozone? I had hoped to use it to do the breadcrumb thing since we hope to hit a number of places that I will not remember in the future without such a device. Since I haven't read the directions, I didn't think I needed to download maps to use it. I'd welcome your thoughts and advice on this. tina tuttle aka tangojuli John McLaughlin <> wrote: I've been using a GPS unit for quite a while now. My first unit was a basic Garmin Etrex and it worked well. It would certainly keep one from getting lost, assuming it was used to keep track of the starting point and, if in difficult terrain, waypoints on the way in.. I used it to find new sites (for which I have GPS positions), make sure I can get back to excellent collecting areas and to keep from getting lost. About three months ago I bought myself an early Christmas present, a Garmin GPSmap 60C, plus the topo maps of the US. The maps are only 1:100,000 but they are sufficient for route planning. Now I can lay out a route to a new area at home on the computer screen. I just click along the route anywhere it might get confusing. I believe the routing program allows for 250 waypoints for a route, plenty for most purposes. Since there are many old roads in the desert, finding one's way to an infrequently visited mine is not always easy. Being able to lay out the route and then download it into the GPS unit is great. The downloaded map and route show the terrain and roads with a small arrow indicating where you are on the route. It would be better if the topos were more up to date. My guess is that they date from about 1976 to 1979, at least in the area I frequently travel. However, they are fine for most off highway navigation purposes. They are useless in a fast growing city - navigation in a town requires a different set of maps. The mapping unit has a tracking feature that is pretty much like a bread crumb trail. You have a option of setting either a time interval or a distance interval when you are hiking in a new area. I usually have the unit create a waypoint three times every tenth of a mile - 30 waypoints per mile. This provides a pretty detailed track that can be followed back to my point of origin quite easily. One other feature that I like is the trip odometer. Pretty much like your car's odometer - it tracks your actual path and gives you the cumulative mileage. The simple GPS units tell you how far you have come in a straight line. This feature tells you how far you actually walked, quite a difference in broken country. You can make sure you won't get lost for under $100. The units that display maps and have a lot of features, plus the cost of the maps, total more like $450. Well worth it to me, but I am able to get out a lot and Arizona has a lot of superb places in which to get lost. However, the most valuable features on the GPS units are the ability to mark a great collecting location one finds through prospecting and the ability to lay out a detailed route to a new area. The mapping feature is not necessary for either use. You can use the Topo Zone maps to get the GPS points needed to lay out a route. The onscreen maps are more a luxury. If you continue wandering around western Arizona a GPS unit is a great safety net. John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Joldersma" > I started looking into hand held GPS and quickly got out of my depth. > What do you think. Are they great or a pain. How much (little) can you > get away with in price. Any good brands out there? Features to look for? _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Jazz up your holiday email with celebrity designs. Learn more. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From corndogs at charter.net Mon Dec 27 06:32:49 2004 From: corndogs at charter.net (corndogs@charter.net) Date: Mon Dec 27 06:32:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] It's rather sad Brenda. Message-ID: <3k786n$kekcda@mxip14a.cluster1.charter.net> I am a very loving person who cares deeply about many things, including people and dogs. However, I am also disabled and have major memory problems. This question came into my head while I was hearing about it and knew that if I didn't ask it right away, chances are - I was never going to ask it. I have also made my apologies on another post, which I hope you have read. And I asked the question as soon as I heard about it because it is in an area that I have done alot of research on in the way of rocks. I hadn't heard any of the casualty numbers or seen any of the pictures...and having lived my whole life until 3 years ago 35 miles east of San Francisco - Earthquakes are not something that I fear. I think that has something to do with my 'lack of feeling' that seemingly alot of you saw in my post. I have however seen new cracks and crevices open basically in my backyard (in the surrounding areas where we used to play) and that is what prompted my question. I sincerely apologize for my lack of better timing...but that is all I will apologize for. I hope you can understand that. And my thoughts and prayers DO go out to all of those who might know of someone in the area who's life has been tragically turned upside down or ended too soon. And for all of the loss to those people who don't have alot of the basic things we take for granted everyday. I do feel for them and more importantly, because few others will...cry for the animals who have been lost in this tragedy, too. The help is there for the people from many other countries...it's the animals who are most often forgotten in these things. Brenda ============================================================ From: "rain forest" Date: 2004/12/27 Mon AM 12:33:55 CST To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] It's rather sad Brenda. Your postscript talks of saving abused dogs; yet your post ignored the human toll and made play of what gemstones could be found at the expense of the loss. It seems your priorities need some re-examining. David Bese The Rainforest Hippie Pt. Orchard, Wa. -- _______________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ============================================================ Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, NE CornDogs@Charter.net Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 27 06:40:56 2004 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Mon Dec 27 06:40:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS In-Reply-To: <004701c4ebd7$d2720400$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <20041227144056.41081.qmail@web51001.mail.yahoo.com> I realize you're just being funny, but you bring up a point worth mentioning: GPS needs a clear view of the sky to function. It won't work in a forest with heavy tree cover, underground, or inside a mall. Jim --- Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > > > I have an E-trex Venture. It's fairly basic, but > works > > well. I can use it hand-held to zero in on a > > collecting locality, or find my way back to the > van. > > > Hey, I would find that very handy at the Mall... > > Jeanette > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Mon Dec 27 06:52:29 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Mon Dec 27 06:43:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS question References: <20041227142258.64297.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001601c4ec23$b181c9a0$56a3490c@pete> I'll try to add a few maybe useful comments, T.T./T.J., I myself have an older, basic Garmin GPS that doesn't contain maps or do any of the fancier things. In using it, a difficulty in making its information useful is that it's not a lot of help (except in finding your way back to your starting point, and knowing which compass direction you're moving) unless you've already got locations with coordinates, calculated and written down or stored on your unit. I find that a "most useful" thing to do is to go online in advance and print out a map from Topozone, with a geographic point that you want to reach (a mountain summit, or an old mine) highlighted & with its lat. & long., or UTM coordinates, printed out. Then, you know the coordinates you want to get to. Of course, having a CD or a printout giving coordinates of the sites (such as old mines) in the vicinity you're exploring, with you, is what would be really helpful--such as the MAS/MILS CD (which to be honest, is not something I yet have a copy of). Even if you're out in the field and have a topo map in front of you, and have your GPS giving your location, it's not very easy to plot it on the paper topo map--unless you're all prepared with a good flat desk surface, a long straightedge and ruler, a pocket calculator, etc. As a general rule, the UTM coordinates are easier to transfer to and from a map than lat. & long. are. Some newer USGS topo maps have the complete UTM grid printed on the map--that makes it very easy; older maps don't, they just have tick marks along the edges, not as convenient, so then you have to physically draw straight N-S and E-W pencil lines across the length and width of the map, to be able to easily estimate between them. It's a big help to have computed the coordinates in advance, or have them from MapQuest or from a CD. I'm sure that using one of those advanced memory GPS units with the maps stored in it, is a HUGE help in navigating around the countryside. best of luck, Pete From tangojuli at yahoo.com Mon Dec 27 07:26:39 2004 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Mon Dec 27 07:26:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS question In-Reply-To: <001601c4ec23$b181c9a0$56a3490c@pete> Message-ID: <20041227152640.57697.qmail@web60807.mail.yahoo.com> Pete-- this rocks. Altho I love and collect old maps, I am a novice navigator and probably could do with some orienteering instruction. I have printed out the topos for all the places we are going, but will have to check to see if UTMs are printed on them. I didn't make the connection between the topos and the GPS, so thanks. Your response below is terribly helpful! thanks for taking the time! tina "Peter J. Modreski" wrote: I'll try to add a few maybe useful comments, T.T./T.J., I myself have an older, basic Garmin GPS that doesn't contain maps or do any of the fancier things. In using it, a difficulty in making its information useful is that it's not a lot of help (except in finding your way back to your starting point, and knowing which compass direction you're moving) unless you've already got locations with coordinates, calculated and written down or stored on your unit. I find that a "most useful" thing to do is to go online in advance and print out a map from Topozone, with a geographic point that you want to reach (a mountain summit, or an old mine) highlighted & with its lat. & long., or UTM coordinates, printed out. Then, you know the coordinates you want to get to. Of course, having a CD or a printout giving coordinates of the sites (such as old mines) in the vicinity you're exploring, with you, is what would be really helpful--such as the MAS/MILS CD (which to be honest, is not something I yet have a copy of). Even if you're out in the field and have a topo map in front of you, and have your GPS giving your location, it's not very easy to plot it on the paper topo map--unless you're all prepared with a good flat desk surface, a long straightedge and ruler, a pocket calculator, etc. As a general rule, the UTM coordinates are easier to transfer to and from a map than lat. & long. are. Some newer USGS topo maps have the complete UTM grid printed on the map--that makes it very easy; older maps don't, they just have tick marks along the edges, not as convenient, so then you have to physically draw straight N-S and E-W pencil lines across the length and width of the map, to be able to easily estimate between them. It's a big help to have computed the coordinates in advance, or have them from MapQuest or from a CD. I'm sure that using one of those advanced memory GPS units with the maps stored in it, is a HUGE help in navigating around the countryside. best of luck, Pete _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Mon Dec 27 07:30:14 2004 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Linda Rasmussen) Date: Mon Dec 27 07:32:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] It's rather sad Brenda. References: <3k786n$kekcda@mxip14a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <001e01c4ec28$f6f95980$675fe842@pavilion> Brenda, I know this guy, he goes from board site to board site attacking mostly women to get others injoined into a Flame war....I met him in Seattle once 5'2" 95-105 lbs long hair I guess it is. If others want a flame war here it is boys.....he can drive you to missing sleep with threats....... and subliminaly messaging. better leave well enough alone, nuff said. Besides we have Mineral and Rocks to learn about. The Peanut Farmer. We harvest Nuts. Young or Old. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gemcollectors Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 7:32 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] It's rather sad Brenda. > I am a very loving person who cares deeply about many things, including people and dogs. However, I am also disabled and have major memory problems. This question came into my head while I was hearing about it and knew that if I didn't ask it right away, chances are - I was never going to ask it. I have also made my apologies on another post, which I hope you have read. And I asked the question as soon as I heard about it because it is in an area that I have done alot of research on in the way of rocks. I hadn't heard any of the casualty numbers or seen any of the pictures...and having lived my whole life until 3 years ago 35 miles east of San Francisco - Earthquakes are not something that I fear. I think that has something to do with my 'lack of feeling' that seemingly alot of you saw in my post. I have however seen new cracks and crevices open basically in my backyard (in the surrounding areas where we used to play) and that is what prompted my question. > > I sincerely apologize for my lack of better timing...but that is all I will apologize for. I hope you can understand that. > > And my thoughts and prayers DO go out to all of those who might know of someone in the area who's life has been tragically turned upside down or ended too soon. And for all of the loss to those people who don't have alot of the basic things we take for granted everyday. I do feel for them and more importantly, because few others will...cry for the animals who have been lost in this tragedy, too. The help is there for the people from many other countries...it's the animals who are most often forgotten in these things. > Brenda > ============================================================ > From: "rain forest" > Date: 2004/12/27 Mon AM 12:33:55 CST > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] It's rather sad Brenda. > > Your postscript talks of saving abused dogs; yet your post ignored the human toll and made play of what gemstones could be found at the expense of the loss. It seems your priorities need some re-examining. > > David Bese > The Rainforest Hippie > Pt. Orchard, Wa. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages > http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp ?SRC=lycos10 > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > ============================================================ > > > Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan > Assisting Boston Terriers > Kearney, NE > CornDogs@Charter.net > Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers > To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! > Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From cliffjackson9 at earthlink.net Mon Dec 27 08:13:00 2004 From: cliffjackson9 at earthlink.net (Cliff Jackson) Date: Mon Dec 27 08:13:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS Message-ID: <15287056.1104163980697.JavaMail.root@misspiggy.psp.pas.earthlink.net> John I have been using Street Atlas with MAS/MIL mine locations loaded and GPS receiver on a laptop. This works great. I live in Las Vegas and go out exploring a lot. There are areas where there are so many dirt roads that it would be very easy to get lost or in some cases you can see the old mine but can't determin how to get there. If you have a laptop go to the Delorme web site for pricing. Cliff Cliff Jackson From geenet2 at mchsi.com Mon Dec 27 08:26:06 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Mon Dec 27 08:27:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS References: <20041227144056.41081.qmail@web51001.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004001c4ec30$c47b0b40$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> I was being seriously funny, about finding my CAR where I left it at the Mall...which would be out in the open. I have been know to walk down the wrong line of cars looking for mine, only to find it two lanes over. Just getting old I guess. Not working in a deep forest is something I didn't think about tho, there is a lot of deep forest down here, but you're not likely to find rocks in them anyway. Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Daly" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 8:40 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] GPS > I realize you're just being funny, but you bring up a > point worth mentioning: GPS needs a clear view of the > sky to function. It won't work in a forest with heavy > tree cover, underground, or inside a mall. > Jim > --- Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > > > > > > I have an E-trex Venture. It's fairly basic, but > > works > > > well. I can use it hand-held to zero in on a > > > collecting locality, or find my way back to the > > van. > > > > > > Hey, I would find that very handy at the Mall... > > > > Jeanette > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Ted at crystalgems.com Mon Dec 27 09:21:17 2004 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted) Date: Mon Dec 27 09:23:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS question In-Reply-To: <20041227142258.64297.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002901c4ec38$a0ce87f0$0300a8c0@gametime> Tina: I'll add my two cents worth of opinion. Several years ago I purchased a Garmin ETrex Legend right before a long road trip visiting National Parks and rock hound sites. The legend was one of the top models available at the time, small, portable and quite solid. It ran me slightly over $300 at the time plus another hundred for the roads and cities software. Since then I have used it and the software on hikes and road trips. It goes with me on every long road trip ad all outdoor adventures. What's it do? Well, first I'll add a note that here in the East we have extensive tree cover; especially around the Appalachian mountains. With the modern GPS units; they track so many satellites so easily that they are not easily lost. They might lose some accuracy... So my unit might display an estimated accuracy of 50 yards (45 meters) instead of the 13 feet (4 meters) it was capable of. Not once, on hikes in the Appalachian mountains and along the Appalachian Trail has my GPS unit failed me or lost view of enough satellites; nor has it lost me in any city that I have traveled through (Washington DC; Philadelphia; New York; Boston are a few). Yes, I have heard horror stories about others; mine works fine in those places; thank you. Malls and inside places are another story; roofs and walls do block view of the satellites. The best thing my GPS has accomplished was the elimination of all map arguments while driving. As a rough aside; my wife is map challenged. So when we cruise down the interstate and a sign comes up that is confusing and I need a quick map check; it is incredibly easy to pick up the GPS unit; check where we are, direction we are traveling and all exits nearby. Before, I always had to pull to the side of the road to check the map before committing a possible routing blunder. Now, the GPS unit shows what we need. It has unlost when the road name signs were missing and clarified many exit signs that fail to mention road names/numbers and compass direction. Before a trip, I use the software to identify counties along all routes and I download the detail into the GPS Unit; which brings me to one of the reasons I chose the top unit at the time. It has 24 MB of memory for maps. More memory; more maps and better detail that can be loaded at one time. Off-road use has not always been terrific. When I cruise off the beaten track I use the waypoint finder most. I mark the local towns and where I start out from. This allows me to keep a reference somewhat better than NSEW as to where in the world am I. As discussed before the Topo maps are not always accurate; nor are they firmly indexed to major topo features as I found out when I was supposedly in the middle of the lake while I was actually traversing a hill alongside the lake. You can also use Gary's Mine DB CD to identify mines and their rough Lat/Lon locations. These can be marked and then downloaded to the GPS unit as a waypoint or marker. Pretty cool when the Lat/Lon listed is reasonably correct. One of my favorite GPS stories is when we visited one of my wife's friends who lived in a city. Directions to her house were very convoluted and complex (correct as far as could be). The main difficulty was directions being complicated by extensive road work around her home with intersections opening and closing depending on construction. I used the software to identify where her house was located and marked it. As we tried to follow the directions and deal with closed roads; the GPS unit faithfully told me which direction; how far away and where we were along with an accurate map from her house. What could have been a very miserable and grueling search ended up as an amusing adventure with city work crews. Good Luck with yours! Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of tango juli Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 9:23 AM To: jemstone@amug.org; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] GPS question John-- (or list!) I leave tomorrow for desert rock collecting in Bouse area (AZ), and CA and Nevada. A friend loaned me his Garmin Etrex. I figured I'd read the directions on the plane, since I've never used one before. I'm glad I read your post before leaving. If I don't have an account with them can I still download the maps from Topozone? I had hoped to use it to do the breadcrumb thing since we hope to hit a number of places that I will not remember in the future without such a device. Since I haven't read the directions, I didn't think I needed to download maps to use it. I'd welcome your thoughts and advice on this. tina tuttle aka tangojuli John McLaughlin <> wrote: I've been using a GPS unit for quite a while now. My first unit was a basic Garmin Etrex and it worked well. It would certainly keep one from getting lost, assuming it was used to keep track of the starting point and, if in difficult terrain, waypoints on the way in.. I used it to find new sites (for which I have GPS positions), make sure I can get back to excellent collecting areas and to keep from getting lost. About three months ago I bought myself an early Christmas present, a Garmin GPSmap 60C, plus the topo maps of the US. The maps are only 1:100,000 but they are sufficient for route planning. Now I can lay out a route to a new area at home on the computer screen. I just click along the route anywhere it might get confusing. I believe the routing program allows for 250 waypoints for a route, plenty for most purposes. Since there are many old roads in the desert, finding one's way to an infrequently visited mine is not always easy. Being able to lay out the route and then download it into the GPS unit is great. The downloaded map and route show the terrain and roads with a small arrow indicating where you are on the route. From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Mon Dec 27 09:34:52 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Mon Dec 27 09:25:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake Message-ID: <005f01c4ec3a$60572a40$56a3490c@pete> Dear Rockhounds list, I thought you might be interested in some info available about the Sumatra earthquake (and let me say, this post will stay pretty much stricly "on topic" 'cause I'll keep it about the geology-related aspect of the quake, and not it's human effects.) I sent these notes to some friends, and I thought some of the rest of you might be interested. Those who are inveterate web-watchers probably already have some of these sites bookmarked, but for the rest who may be interested... The quake was so strong that it would be readily recognizable from any seismograph anywhere in the world. I went to one of the Mt. Rainier stations that's part of the Pacific Northwest Seismograph Network, and once I figured out the time zones, it's neat to look at an actual seismogram of the quake. If you go to the pnsn.org site and look at their volcano webicorder records (the page where you select the desired station is, http://www.pnsn.org/WEBICORDER/VOLC/welcome.html and select any of the stations (I used Rainier-Mt. Fremont seismograph) for the 12-hour time period designated 12/26/2004 (00), you'll see the seismic waves as they arrived at Mt. Rainier--and, you can't miss it! (Look at the preceding 12-hour record to see a quiet period for comparison.) It was confusing to even figure out "which day" the earthquake occurred, because it was the early morning of Dec. 26 in east Asia, but the evening of Dec. 25 here in the U.S. The quake was at 06:58:50 local time Dec. 26 in Sumatra and 00:58:50 Dec. 26 UTC, which made it 5:58:50 p.m. Dec. 25 Mountain Time here in Denver, thus 4:58:50 on the Pacific coast. I see that the first seismic wave arrival at Mt. Rainier was (if I'm reading the chart right) at about 01:18 UTC, hence 19 minutes travel time from the point of origin in Sumatra. I think I'm figuring this right. That's for the waves to travel what looks like from a globe, about 1/3 of the way around the world. It will be interesting to check the news stories and compare how long it took the tsunamis to arrive at different places along the Indian Ocean coasts (typically several hour for the tsunamis, vs. minutes for the seismic waves through the earth). P.S., the USGS web page about the earthquake is at, http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqinthenews/2004/usslav/ The pnsn "webicorders" are kept posted for each 5-day period, so after about another 48 hours, those seismograms I referred to above will be wiped off the screen and replaced by more recent records. If you search you can find similar "webicorder" seismograms viewable online for stations all over the U.S., from other seismograph networks. best regards to all, Pete Modreski, Denver CO --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny at lrream.com Mon Dec 27 09:33:29 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Mon Dec 27 09:32:31 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS question In-Reply-To: <001601c4ec23$b181c9a0$56a3490c@pete> References: <20041227142258.64297.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com> <001601c4ec23$b181c9a0$56a3490c@pete> Message-ID: <6C1216E5-582D-11D9-B99E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> I've been using a GPS for a long time -- the first one I bought cost $900 for what is today a basic model; that was a number of years ago. Plotting lat./lon. coordinates may be a pain on a paper map, but most of the USA uses it. USGS data typically is in lat./lon. first and as Pete pointed out, UTM is usually only tic marks on the side of the map. I like it, and I'm sticking with it. The problem is easily solved if you use something like National Geographics TOPO. You can print out a paper copy of the map to take in the field, or use it on a laptop. The USGS sells a ruler that is designed to make the plotting of lat./lon. coordinates on paper maps easy. In TOPO you can either find a spot on the map if you know the coordinates, or you can get the coordinates by placing the cursor on the spot and reading them off. You can upload way points to TOPO from your GPS or download a route and waypoints from TOPO to your GPS. You can also use it live to show you where you are as you drive down the roads. A GPS is useful for just about any angle you can think of to make it useful in finding a site, finding yourself, finding your car if you saved the location (waypoint) before walking away (never done that one), sorting out conflicting roads and access, but mostly I find it's best for marking/recording a location so you can tell someone else where it is. The thing I haven't figured out is what people are doing with all these route/waypoints they store that they rave about on the GPS forums. When I go into the woods, I either follow a trail or cut across country where I don't want to come out the same way --- you don't find anything new by walking the same path out as you took in! As for needing clear sight of the sky, and thus the satellites, the better the view the better the reception and greater number of satellites that will be used. My first GPS, a Trimble, had no problem getting a fix in my home and in moderate forest cover. I am now using a Garmin Etrex Summit which doesn't do quite as good a job in those conditions. The Garmin is dieing, so I'm going get a new one that does maps, probably a Garmin GSMAP 76C or CS, despite the fact that I hate the company because it will not support my Mac. Buying advice, get the one with the most functions that you can afford. When you start using it, you will find that other functions are useful too. I didn't think having maps on it would be all that useful, but after traveling with a friend using maps on his, even with that dinky little screen that shows almost nothing, it is fun using the GPS unit to navigate on its tiny map, and keep re-enforcing your thoughts that you know where you are going. Regards, Lanny On Dec 27, 2004, at 6:52 AM, Peter J. Modreski wrote: > I'll try to add a few maybe useful comments, T.T./T.J., > > I myself have an older, basic Garmin GPS that doesn't contain maps or > do any > of the fancier things. In using it, a difficulty in making its > information > useful is that it's not a lot of help (except in finding your way back > to > your starting point, and knowing which compass direction you're moving) > unless you've already got locations with coordinates, calculated and > written > down or stored on your unit. > > I find that a "most useful" thing to do is to go online in advance and > print > out a map from Topozone, with a geographic point that you want to > reach (a > mountain summit, or an old mine) highlighted & with its lat. & long., > or UTM > coordinates, printed out. Then, you know the coordinates you want to > get > to. Of course, having a CD or a printout giving coordinates of the > sites > (such as old mines) in the vicinity you're exploring, with you, is what > would be really helpful--such as the MAS/MILS CD (which to be honest, > is not > something I yet have a copy of). Even if you're out in the field and > have a > topo map in front of you, and have your GPS giving your location, it's > not > very easy to plot it on the paper topo map--unless you're all prepared > with > a good flat desk surface, a long straightedge and ruler, a pocket > calculator, etc. As a general rule, the UTM coordinates are easier to > transfer to and from a map than lat. & long. are. Some newer USGS > topo maps > have the complete UTM grid printed on the map--that makes it very easy; > older maps don't, they just have tick marks along the edges, not as > convenient, so then you have to physically draw straight N-S and E-W > pencil > lines across the length and width of the map, to be able to easily > estimate > between them. It's a big help to have computed the coordinates in > advance, > or have them from MapQuest or from a CD. > > I'm sure that using one of those advanced memory GPS units with the > maps > stored in it, is a HUGE help in navigating around the countryside. > > best of luck, > Pete > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Mon Dec 27 10:04:38 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Mon Dec 27 09:55:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS question References: <002901c4ec38$a0ce87f0$0300a8c0@gametime> Message-ID: <006501c4ec3e$8b0b0820$56a3490c@pete> In contrast to Ted, I find that with my old Garmin unit (a Garmin 38, which only gets 8 satellites; I think it's at least 6 or 8 years old) very often, probably a good 25% of the time, just being in a valley or heavily timbered area will be enough to block the satellites to the point where I can't get a position fix. Then I have to go back to my old-fashioned map, compass, and hopeful "sense of direction". I'm never sure if this is the way my unit has always worked, or if it functions less well with advanced age (why??), or if it's due to my abuse of it over time, such as the time I left it on the roof of my Jeep (a convenient place to get a better signal--if you remember not to leave it there) and didn't notice it until it bounced off the roof, 50 miles later at 65 mph going down a highway. After I backed up and recovered it, I was incredibly surprised that it still worked; just a few scrapes on the case (I should have written to Garmin about it--I guess they do make those babies tough!). Pete From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Mon Dec 27 10:10:49 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Mon Dec 27 10:11:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineralized Wood for Pens In-Reply-To: <005f01c4ec3a$60572a40$56a3490c@pete> Message-ID: <200412271811.iBRIBAD1026877@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Now here's an odd one for us... I just got off the phone with a potential business partner (in my "real" geek job) and we got to talking about what we do for fun. He makes pens. I said..."Gee, you know what would be cool? A pen made out of old mine timbers that had been mineralized.". -- so my question -- Anyone have, or know of, where I can get hunks of wood that have been mineralized? I'm NOT looking for petrified wood, but rather wood that could still be turned on a lathe. Any ideas? Oh... And my new found friend said that if he gets a chunk of wood from someone, he'll give them the first pen that he makes from it! Thanks... Gary Brown http://www.catspaw-minerals.com Home of the MasMils/PLUS Mine Location Disk Perfect for your new GPS! (hint, hint) From tangojuli at yahoo.com Mon Dec 27 10:59:41 2004 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Mon Dec 27 10:59:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS question In-Reply-To: <002901c4ec38$a0ce87f0$0300a8c0@gametime> Message-ID: <20041227185941.26654.qmail@web60806.mail.yahoo.com> Ted-- I think many of my friends are map challenged as well (directionally challenged too) and would benefit from a GPS. I too have to navigate while driving a lot, and can't rely on friends for that too often. A couple friends usually get too car sick to navigate or be at all helpful. Thanks for your comments. I'm looking forward to figuring this out! tina Ted wrote: Tina: I'll add my two cents worth of opinion. Several years ago I purchased a Garmin ETrex Legend right before a long road trip visiting National Parks and rock hound sites. The legend was one of the top models available at the time, small, portable and quite solid. It ran me slightly over $300 at the time plus another hundred for the roads and cities software. Since then I have used it and the software on hikes and road trips. It goes with me on every long road trip ad all outdoor adventures. What's it do? Well, first I'll add a note that here in the East we have extensive tree cover; especially around the Appalachian mountains. With the modern GPS units; they track so many satellites so easily that they are not easily lost. They might lose some accuracy... So my unit might display an estimated accuracy of 50 yards (45 meters) instead of the 13 feet (4 meters) it was capable of. Not once, on hikes in the Appalachian mountains and along the Appalachian Trail has my GPS unit failed me or lost view of enough satellites; nor has it lost me in any city that I have traveled through (Washington DC; Philadelphia; New York; Boston are a few). Yes, I have heard horror stories about others; mine works fine in those places; thank you. Malls and inside places are another story; roofs and walls do block view of the satellites. The best thing my GPS has accomplished was the elimination of all map arguments while driving. As a rough aside; my wife is map challenged. So when we cruise down the interstate and a sign comes up that is confusing and I need a quick map check; it is incredibly easy to pick up the GPS unit; check where we are, direction we are traveling and all exits nearby. Before, I always had to pull to the side of the road to check the map before committing a possible routing blunder. Now, the GPS unit shows what we need. It has unlost when the road name signs were missing and clarified many exit signs that fail to mention road names/numbers and compass direction. Before a trip, I use the software to identify counties along all routes and I download the detail into the GPS Unit; which brings me to one of the reasons I chose the top unit at the time. It has 24 MB of memory for maps. More memory; more maps and better detail that can be loaded at one time. Off-road use has not always been terrific. When I cruise off the beaten track I use the waypoint finder most. I mark the local towns and where I start out from. This allows me to keep a reference somewhat better than NSEW as to where in the world am I. As discussed before the Topo maps are not always accurate; nor are they firmly indexed to major topo features as I found out when I was supposedly in the middle of the lake while I was actually traversing a hill alongside the lake. You can also use Gary's Mine DB CD to identify mines and their rough Lat/Lon locations. These can be marked and then downloaded to the GPS unit as a waypoint or marker. Pretty cool when the Lat/Lon listed is reasonably correct. One of my favorite GPS stories is when we visited one of my wife's friends who lived in a city. Directions to her house were very convoluted and complex (correct as far as could be). The main difficulty was directions being complicated by extensive road work around her home with intersections opening and closing depending on construction. I used the software to identify where her house was located and marked it. As we tried to follow the directions and deal with closed roads; the GPS unit faithfully told me which direction; how far away and where we were along with an accurate map from her house. What could have been a very miserable and grueling search ended up as an amusing adventure with city work crews. Good Luck with yours! Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of tango juli Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 9:23 AM To: jemstone@amug.org; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] GPS question John-- (or list!) I leave tomorrow for desert rock collecting in Bouse area (AZ), and CA and Nevada. A friend loaned me his Garmin Etrex. I figured I'd read the directions on the plane, since I've never used one before. I'm glad I read your post before leaving. If I don't have an account with them can I still download the maps from Topozone? I had hoped to use it to do the breadcrumb thing since we hope to hit a number of places that I will not remember in the future without such a device. Since I haven't read the directions, I didn't think I needed to download maps to use it. I'd welcome your thoughts and advice on this. tina tuttle aka tangojuli John McLaughlin <> wrote: I've been using a GPS unit for quite a while now. My first unit was a basic Garmin Etrex and it worked well. It would certainly keep one from getting lost, assuming it was used to keep track of the starting point and, if in difficult terrain, waypoints on the way in.. I used it to find new sites (for which I have GPS positions), make sure I can get back to excellent collecting areas and to keep from getting lost. About three months ago I bought myself an early Christmas present, a Garmin GPSmap 60C, plus the topo maps of the US. The maps are only 1:100,000 but they are sufficient for route planning. Now I can lay out a route to a new area at home on the computer screen. I just click along the route anywhere it might get confusing. I believe the routing program allows for 250 waypoints for a route, plenty for most purposes. Since there are many old roads in the desert, finding one's way to an infrequently visited mine is not always easy. Being able to lay out the route and then download it into the GPS unit is great. The downloaded map and route show the terrain and roads with a small arrow indicating where you are on the route. _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tangojuli at yahoo.com Mon Dec 27 11:06:51 2004 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Mon Dec 27 11:06:54 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS question In-Reply-To: <006501c4ec3e$8b0b0820$56a3490c@pete> Message-ID: <20041227190651.2264.qmail@web60807.mail.yahoo.com> I've heard that around 2000 they started making the GPSs more accurate. Had something to do with the satellites and tracking(?) or something. I remember driving around in the El Pasos, CA a few years and hearing an NPR special about it (it sticks in memory because of the beautiful scenery). Perhaps that may be why there is difficulty with the older units? Someone will surely chime in on this. Thanks to everyone's comments on this. I have to pack my pick and Leave on a Jet Plane now, but will tell tales when I get back. (Please--No rain dances! We aren't packing tents!) cheers, tina "Peter J. Modreski" wrote: In contrast to Ted, I find that with my old Garmin unit (a Garmin 38, which only gets 8 satellites; I think it's at least 6 or 8 years old) very often, probably a good 25% of the time, just being in a valley or heavily timbered area will be enough to block the satellites to the point where I can't get a position fix. Then I have to go back to my old-fashioned map, compass, and hopeful "sense of direction". I'm never sure if this is the way my unit has always worked, or if it functions less well with advanced age (why??), or if it's due to my abuse of it over time, such as the time I left it on the roof of my Jeep (a convenient place to get a better signal--if you remember not to leave it there) and didn't notice it until it bounced off the roof, 50 miles later at 65 mph going down a highway. After I backed up and recovered it, I was incredibly surprised that it still worked; just a few scrapes on the case (I should have written to Garmin about it--I guess they do make those babies tough!). Pete _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jr50wv at yahoo.com Mon Dec 27 11:25:08 2004 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Mon Dec 27 11:25:15 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Planetoid Axel etc. Message-ID: <20041227192508.65411.qmail@web41014.mail.yahoo.com> Axel: I'm awe-struck! Just to read the listserv that a planetoid participates in! My wife got me a giant magnifying glass with a circular light tube around it, the better to see the rocks with...pretty good, I thought! Happy New Year, everyone! JR in WV --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 27 11:36:51 2004 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Mon Dec 27 11:36:54 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS In-Reply-To: <004001c4ec30$c47b0b40$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <20041227193651.91831.qmail@web51006.mail.yahoo.com> Actually, I've been to quite a few mine dumps in heavy forest. The Michigan copper country is one area that comes to mind. Jim --- Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > Not working in a deep forest is something I didn't > think about tho, there > is a lot of deep forest down here, but you're not > likely to find rocks in > them anyway. > Jeanette > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From kadok at infowest.com Mon Dec 27 11:41:36 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Mon Dec 27 11:41:36 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041227194129.53085CB9B2C@delivery.infowest.com> Hi, Axel 15513 -- You have a right to be a showoff! Margaret >Thank you... bow bow... thank you vey much... bow bow >Hernia starting to show.... >Cheers >Axel >15513 (seems it's customary to put the number of your asteroid under your >signature, if you got one) >PS: I'm a show-off aren't I???? Hahaaaaaaaaa -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm Verzonden: zondag 26 december 2004 18:43 Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! Hey, yes! I second Kitty's statement! Margaret Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! Congratulations, Axel! You well deserve to be an asteroid! Yay, bravo, clap-clap-clap! Aloha, Kitty At 03:09 PM 12/25/2004, Axel wrote: >Now guys, did I get a chistmas present: go look at >http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/lists/MPNames.html and click on the "E". >Then scrol down and look between "Emmarochelle" and "Emmons" and tell me >what you find. > >Tomorrow I am going to call my dear friend Doctor Everett Gibson form NASA >and thank him for bestowing this great honor upon me. >Look to he heavens... I'm between Jupiter and Mars. > >Cheers > >Axel ( the real one, not the planetoid) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 27 11:44:00 2004 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Mon Dec 27 11:44:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS question In-Reply-To: <20041227190651.2264.qmail@web60807.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20041227194400.18216.qmail@web51004.mail.yahoo.com> Yes, newer GPSs are more accurate. As Pete said, the old ones only accessed about 8 satellites. Now, even the cheap ones like mine access about 33 satellites. I also recall something around 2000 where the data from the satellites got better. Prior to that time, the government addded some random error to make the satellites less useful to enemies, as I recall. Jim --- tango juli wrote: > I've heard that around 2000 they started making the > GPSs more accurate. Had something to do with the > satellites and tracking(?) or something. I remember > driving around in the El Pasos, CA a few years and > hearing an NPR special about it (it sticks in memory > because of the beautiful scenery). Perhaps that may > be why there is difficulty with the older units? > Someone will surely chime in on this. > Thanks to everyone's comments on this. I have to > pack my pick and Leave on a Jet Plane now, but will > tell tales when I get back. > (Please--No rain dances! We aren't packing tents!) > cheers, > tina > > "Peter J. Modreski" > wrote: > In contrast to Ted, I find that with my old Garmin > unit (a Garmin 38, which > only gets 8 satellites; I think it's at least 6 or 8 > years old) very often, > probably a good 25% of the time, just being in a > valley or heavily timbered > area will be enough to block the satellites to the > point where I can't get a > position fix. Then I have to go back to my > old-fashioned map, compass, and > hopeful "sense of direction". I'm never sure if this > is the way my unit has > always worked, or if it functions less well with > advanced age (why??), or if > it's due to my abuse of it over time, such as the > time I left it on the roof > of my Jeep (a convenient place to get a better > signal--if you remember not > to leave it there) and didn't notice it until it > bounced off the roof, 50 > miles later at 65 mph going down a highway. After I > backed up and recovered > it, I was incredibly surprised that it still worked; > just a few scrapes on > the case (I should have written to Garmin about > it--I guess they do make > those babies tough!). > > Pete > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo From kadok at infowest.com Mon Dec 27 11:52:15 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Mon Dec 27 11:52:10 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Massive Earthquake and what it might mean to usRockhounds In-Reply-To: <41CF1CCF.8020702@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20041227195207.74039CB9399@delivery.infowest.com> I agree with you 100%, Maurice! Margaret >Thinking about uncovered gemstone deposits less than 24 hours after a >major disaster (11.000 casualties and counting), is WAY beyond decency >in my opinion. >Cheers, >Maurice corndogs@charter.net wrote: >HI THERE!! > >I don't post very often but I was wondering what all of you EXPERTS thought of the earthquake that happened yesterday in Indonasia. Do you think that there will be uncovered gemstone deposits or some major errosion that will expose something fantastic?? > >I have a 10+ pound ruby from Karnataka that according to the person I got it from, is one of the 4-5 best large specimens ever found. And supposedly they aren't finding anymore. I believe him because he is an expert, but of course, I could be wrong :-) > >I am just wondering what the outcomes of this catostrophic event might have for us Rockhounds :-) Any ideas?!?!?! >Brenda > >Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan >Assisting Boston Terriers >Kearney, NE >CornDogs@Charter.net >Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers >To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! >Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kadok at infowest.com Mon Dec 27 11:56:11 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Mon Dec 27 11:56:06 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! In-Reply-To: <41CF34D9.4010007@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20041227195603.60C91CB9399@delivery.infowest.com> Oh, that is so great, Maurice!! Margaret >The Axel story made me remember. A few nights ago I was watching through >my telescope at the heavens, when I saw something I never saw before. I >shot a short movie of it. I was looking to the south from the >Netherlands. See for yourself: http://maurice.strahlen.org/telescope >Cheers, >Maurice Willie Steyn wrote: > Baie geluk Axel. Jy het dit voorwaar verdien.Ons wat net elke dag die > e-posse lees en leer vanaf die meesters dink dit was welgedaan. > Willem jnr. > Suid Afrika > > > - Original Message ----- From: "Maurice de Graaf" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 10:31 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! > > >> Axel, >> >> Any chance that we get to see a picture of your planet? Maybe we can >> find some resembances :-) >> >> Do you know how big the new addition to the Emmermann family is? >> (Any possible relation with the first sentence of this mail is purely >> coincidental...) >> >> Congretulations, >> Maurice >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Axel Emmermann wrote: >> >>> Hi Margaret >>> >>> Thank you... bow bow... thank you vey much... bow bow >>> Hernia starting to show.... >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Axel >>> 15513 (seems it's customary to put the number of your asteroid under >>> your >>> signature, if you got one) >>> >>> PS: I'm a show-off aren't I???? Hahaaaaaaaaa >>> >>> >>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >>> Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >>> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm >>> Verzonden: zondag 26 december 2004 18:43 >>> Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>> collectors' >>> Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! >>> >>> >>> Hey, yes! I second Kitty's statement! >>> >>> Margaret >>> >>> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! >>> >>> Congratulations, Axel! You well deserve to be an asteroid! Yay, >>> bravo, >>> clap-clap-clap! >>> >>> Aloha, Kitty >>> >>> >>> At 03:09 PM 12/25/2004, Axel wrote: >>> >>>> Now guys, did I get a chistmas present: go look at >>>> http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/lists/MPNames.html and click on the >>>> "E". >>>> Then scrol down and look between "Emmarochelle" and "Emmons" and >>>> tell me >>>> what you find. >>>> >>>> Tomorrow I am going to call my dear friend Doctor Everett Gibson >>>> form NASA >>>> and thank him for bestowing this great honor upon me. >>>> Look to he heavens... I'm between Jupiter and Mars. >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> >>>> Axel ( the real one, not the planetoid) >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>> Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Dec 27 12:05:35 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Dec 27 12:05:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS question Message-ID: <122720042005.12646.41D06B0F0003B65700003166216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Yes, it was a great benefit to users when the U.S. government removed that error factor that had been added to the signals available to the general public, and increased the accuracy by several times. However, all the GPS units, even the older ones like mine, benefit from the increased accuracy. But the new units do have several features, including the greater number of satellites accessible, that make them more accurate. Pete -------------- Original message from tango juli : -------------- > I've heard that around 2000 they started making the GPSs more accurate. Had > something to do with the satellites and tracking(?) or something. I remember > driving around in the El Pasos, CA a few years and hearing an NPR special about > it (it sticks in memory because of the beautiful scenery). Perhaps that may be > why there is difficulty with the older units? Someone will surely chime in on > this. > Thanks to everyone's comments on this. I have to pack my pick and Leave on a Jet > Plane now, but will tell tales when I get back. > (Please--No rain dances! We aren't packing tents!) > cheers, > tina > > "Peter J. Modreski" wrote: > In contrast to Ted, I find that with my old Garmin unit (a Garmin 38, which > only gets 8 satellites; I think it's at least 6 or 8 years old) very often, > probably a good 25% of the time, just being in a valley or heavily timbered > area will be enough to block the satellites to the point where I can't get a > position fix. Then I have to go back to my old-fashioned map, compass, and > hopeful "sense of direction". I'm never sure if this is the way my unit has > always worked, or if it functions less well with advanced age (why??), or if > it's due to my abuse of it over time, such as the time I left it on the roof > of my Jeep (a convenient place to get a better signal--if you remember not > to leave it there) and didn't notice it until it bounced off the roof, 50 > miles later at 65 mph going down a highway. After I backed up and recovered > it, I was incredibly surprised that it still worked; just a few scrapes on > the case (I should have written to Garmin about it--I guess they do make > those babies tough!). > > Pete > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kadok at infowest.com Mon Dec 27 12:16:20 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Mon Dec 27 12:16:15 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS question In-Reply-To: <20041227190651.2264.qmail@web60807.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20041227201612.D661ECB9BB5@delivery.infowest.com> Hi,, Tina -- The increased accuracy was not so much in the instrument itself, as in the fact that the government finally removed the inaccuracies that they had deliberately built into the system! (But which were not, of course, present in the military's systems!) Guess they were worried about Rooshian spies running around with their little GPSes getting readings on all the strategic targets. But I reckon they are getting more accurate, too. Margaret >I've heard that around 2000 they started making the GPSs more accurate. Had >something to do with the satellites and tracking(?) or something. I >remember driving around in the El Pasos, CA a few years and hearing an NPR >special about it (it sticks in memory because of the beautiful scenery). >Perhaps that may be why there is difficulty with the older units? Someone >will surely chime in on this. >Thanks to everyone's comments on this. I have to pack my pick and Leave on >a Jet Plane now, but will tell tales when I get back. >(Please--No rain dances! We aren't packing tents!) >cheers, >tina "Peter J. Modreski" wrote: In contrast to Ted, I find that with my old Garmin unit (a Garmin 38, which only gets 8 satellites; I think it's at least 6 or 8 years old) very often, probably a good 25% of the time, just being in a valley or heavily timbered area will be enough to block the satellites to the point where I can't get a position fix. Then I have to go back to my old-fashioned map, compass, and hopeful "sense of direction". I'm never sure if this is the way my unit has always worked, or if it functions less well with advanced age (why??), or if it's due to my abuse of it over time, such as the time I left it on the roof of my Jeep (a convenient place to get a better signal--if you remember not to leave it there) and didn't notice it until it bounced off the roof, 50 miles later at 65 mph going down a highway. After I backed up and recovered it, I was incredibly surprised that it still worked; just a few scrapes on the case (I should have written to Garmin about it--I guess they do make those babies tough!). Pete _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From volgems at icx.net Mon Dec 27 13:20:17 2004 From: volgems at icx.net (John Teague) Date: Mon Dec 27 13:20:20 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Massive Earthquake and what it might mean to usRockhounds Message-ID: <19862772.1104182417815.JavaMail.root@wamui01.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Hey, guys, Brenda made an apology and explained her situation. I think that's enough. Just my opine. BTW, her original message was more ON TOPIC for this list that 80+% of the messages for the past couple of weeks or so. Don't think so? If nothing else, check the messages for the past 24-48 hours. Again, just my opine. John -----Original Message----- From: Margaret Malm Sent: Dec 27, 2004 2:52 PM To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Massive Earthquake and what it might mean to usRockhounds I agree with you 100%, Maurice! Margaret >Thinking about uncovered gemstone deposits less than 24 hours after a >major disaster (11.000 casualties and counting), is WAY beyond decency >in my opinion. >Cheers, >Maurice corndogs@charter.net wrote: >HI THERE!! > >I don't post very often but I was wondering what all of you EXPERTS thought of the earthquake that happened yesterday in Indonasia. Do you think that there will be uncovered gemstone deposits or some major errosion that will expose something fantastic?? > >I have a 10+ pound ruby from Karnataka that according to the person I got it from, is one of the 4-5 best large specimens ever found. And supposedly they aren't finding anymore. I believe him because he is an expert, but of course, I could be wrong :-) > >I am just wondering what the outcomes of this catostrophic event might have for us Rockhounds :-) Any ideas?!?!?! >Brenda > >Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan >Assisting Boston Terriers >Kearney, NE >CornDogs@Charter.net >Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers >To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! >Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Dec 27 13:54:12 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Dec 27 13:44:42 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineralized Wood for Pens References: <200412271811.iBRIBAD1026877@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <41D08241.4FEC@Tomaszewski.net> Gary, Pulling out old wooden mine timbers is a very high risk occupation. You might do better looking for an area of the country where wooden fenceposts are known to be mineralized from the local groundwater. Or talk to your lumber yard about pressure treating some good grained timber with waterglass. Kreigh Gary Brown wrote: > > Now here's an odd one for us... > > I just got off the phone with a potential business partner (in my "real" > geek job) and we got to talking about what we do for fun. He makes pens. I > said..."Gee, you know what would be cool? A pen made out of old mine > timbers that had been mineralized.". > > -- so my question -- > > Anyone have, or know of, where I can get hunks of wood that have been > mineralized? I'm NOT looking for petrified wood, but rather wood that could > still be turned on a lathe. Any ideas? Oh... And my new found friend said > that if he gets a chunk of wood from someone, he'll give them the first pen > that he makes from it! > > Thanks... > > Gary Brown From erongo at mweb.co.za Mon Dec 27 13:52:12 2004 From: erongo at mweb.co.za (Willie Steyn) Date: Mon Dec 27 13:52:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Massive Earthquake and what it might mean tousRockhounds References: <19862772.1104182417815.JavaMail.root@wamui01.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <00ff01c4ec5e$5319b090$8e91fea9@Namibiaminerals> I don`t want to get involved in a mud slinging contest , but I feel Brenda was in her rights to ask the questions she did. We live in South Africa and an average of 20 people is murdered daily in our country but it does not prohibit the rest of the world to do business with us , for all it matters I still sell my produce on a daily basis. It is the way the world evolves. If it was people known personally on the list my heart goes out to them and they are in our prayers but the world goes on. If she did not ask the question another 100 did , that I can assure you. Brenda I see it not as being rude or ignorant but as a matter of all day living. Yes we must have respect for the dead and grieve for the lost but all Brenda did was asking everyday questions avoiding bringing the topic of the terrible loss to the list. Grieving and respect is a private matter that each person handles differently. Willem Jnr South Africa ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Teague" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 11:20 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Massive Earthquake and what it might mean tousRockhounds > Hey, guys, Brenda made an apology and explained her situation. > I think that's enough. Just my opine. > > BTW, her original message was more ON TOPIC for this list that > 80+% of the messages for the past couple of weeks or so. Don't > think so? If nothing else, check the messages for the past 24-48 > hours. Again, just my opine. > > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: Margaret Malm > Sent: Dec 27, 2004 2:52 PM > To: > "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Massive Earthquake and what it might mean to > usRockhounds > > > > I agree with you 100%, Maurice! > > Margaret > >>Thinking about uncovered gemstone deposits less than 24 hours after a >>major disaster (11.000 casualties and counting), is WAY beyond decency >>in my opinion. > >>Cheers, >>Maurice > > > > > corndogs@charter.net wrote: > >>HI THERE!! >> >>I don't post very often but I was wondering what all of you EXPERTS >>thought > of the earthquake that happened yesterday in Indonasia. Do you think that > there will be uncovered gemstone deposits or some major errosion that will > expose something fantastic?? > >> >>I have a 10+ pound ruby from Karnataka that according to the person I got > it from, is one of the 4-5 best large specimens ever found. And > supposedly > they aren't finding anymore. I believe him because he is an expert, but > of > course, I could be wrong :-) >> >>I am just wondering what the outcomes of this catostrophic event might >>have > for us Rockhounds :-) Any ideas?!?!?! >>Brenda >> >>Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan >>Assisting Boston Terriers >>Kearney, NE >>CornDogs@Charter.net >>Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston >>Terriers > >>To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! >>Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your > character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what > others think you are. ~Author Unknown >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rik.dillen at skynet.be Mon Dec 27 13:57:17 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Mon Dec 27 13:57:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200412272157.iBRLvHYP008585@outmx015.isp.belgacom.be> Axel (et al. FYI), later than usual, also my congratulations, of course. I was wrestling during a few days with IP-adresses, unknown file locations and other interesting stuff you get over you when you install a new computer, and that's the reason why I missed most of the story. Splendid news? And BTW Maurice, splendid *.gif ! Best regards, Rik (new signature not yet ready) -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: zondag 26 december 2004 20:02 To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! Thank you... bow bow... thank you very much... bow bow curtain closes curtain opens again Thank you... bow bow... thank you very much... bow bow ;-))))) Cheers Axel 15513 From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Mon Dec 27 12:14:13 2004 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Mon Dec 27 14:14:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Massive Earthquake and what it might meantousRockhounds References: <19862772.1104182417815.JavaMail.root@wamui01.slb.atl.earthlink.net> <00ff01c4ec5e$5319b090$8e91fea9@Namibiaminerals> Message-ID: <009e01c4ec50$a6da9c20$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Well said Willem. John Santa, Idaho, US ----- Original Message ----- From: "Willie Steyn" > the terrible loss to the list. > Grieving and respect is a private matter that each person handles > differently. > Willem Jnr > South Africa From lanny at lrream.com Mon Dec 27 14:45:14 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Mon Dec 27 14:44:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS question In-Reply-To: <20041227194400.18216.qmail@web51004.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041227194400.18216.qmail@web51004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The error problem up to a few years ago was introduced on purpose to keep enemy rockets, etc. less accurate, it was called Selective Availability. At that time any reading taken was likely to be within 30 to 100 yards of accurate. The greater accuracy of the modern unit has more to do with the removal of Selective Availability than the fact that they can receive more than 12 satellites at a time. Don't believe the hype about a unit being able to read/use 12, 20 or 33 satellites. First off, there are only 21 active satellites at any one time (24 in the sky, 3 switched off for maintenance or replacement). Secondly, only a few can be seen at one time. The satellites are not fixed in position over you, but actually orbit the earth a slight bit less than once every 12 hours. Due to their position (four orbital planes, with the satellite spaced at one per 60 degrees). There are only 6-12 visible from any place on earth at one time. Generally, it takes 3 points to triangulate a position, with GPS, that's true, but a 4th satellite will greatly improve the elevation reading. More than that may slightly improve the horizontal reading, but not by much, unless a couple of the satellite signals are not of good quality (interference from trees, bouncing around in canyons, mountains, alien invaders....). A good receiver probably is best at sorting out the good signals from the bad, then finding much use in 8 good signals. The manufacturing hype that a GPS receiver can receive up to 24 satellites at once is about as useful as stating that digital camera has the non-optical telephoto capability of 240x. Regards, Lanny On Dec 27, 2004, at 11:44 AM, Jim Daly wrote: > Yes, newer GPSs are more accurate. As Pete said, the > old ones only accessed about 8 satellites. Now, even > the cheap ones like mine access about 33 satellites. I > also recall something around 2000 where the data from > the satellites got better. Prior to that time, the > government addded some random error to make the > satellites less useful to enemies, as I recall. > Jim > --- tango juli wrote: > >> I've heard that around 2000 they started making the >> GPSs more accurate. Had something to do with the >> satellites and tracking(?) or something. I remember >> driving around in the El Pasos, CA a few years and >> hearing an NPR special about it (it sticks in memory >> because of the beautiful scenery). Perhaps that may >> be why there is difficulty with the older units? >> Someone will surely chime in on this. >> Thanks to everyone's comments on this. I have to >> pack my pick and Leave on a Jet Plane now, but will >> tell tales when I get back. >> (Please--No rain dances! We aren't packing tents!) >> cheers, >> tina >> >> "Peter J. Modreski" >> wrote: >> In contrast to Ted, I find that with my old Garmin >> unit (a Garmin 38, which >> only gets 8 satellites; I think it's at least 6 or 8 >> years old) very often, >> probably a good 25% of the time, just being in a >> valley or heavily timbered >> area will be enough to block the satellites to the >> point where I can't get a >> position fix. Then I have to go back to my >> old-fashioned map, compass, and >> hopeful "sense of direction". I'm never sure if this >> is the way my unit has >> always worked, or if it functions less well with >> advanced age (why??), or if >> it's due to my abuse of it over time, such as the >> time I left it on the roof >> of my Jeep (a convenient place to get a better >> signal--if you remember not >> to leave it there) and didn't notice it until it >> bounced off the roof, 50 >> miles later at 65 mph going down a highway. After I >> backed up and recovered >> it, I was incredibly surprised that it still worked; >> just a few scrapes on >> the case (I should have written to Garmin about >> it--I guess they do make >> those babies tough!). >> >> Pete >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam >> protection around >> http://mail.yahoo.com >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Dec 27 22:32:19 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Dec 27 22:31:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake References: <005f01c4ec3a$60572a40$56a3490c@pete> Message-ID: <41D0FDC2.228A@Tomaszewski.net> Pete, I subscribe to the USGS notification list for earthquakes (at http://earthquake.usgs.gov/products/neic_data_services.html), but somehow missed receiving notice of the big quake (I've received all the aftershock notices). I am also a member of the www.elfrad.org group that has been looking at earthquake precursor events in ELF/ULF radio frequency data. Charlie Plyler captured the precursor event 49 minutes before the quake (http://elfrad.com/Quake/Qinfo22.htm), but was unable to identify where due to lack of triangulating stations reporting. Has the type of earth movement that caused the quake been identified? News reports indicate that the sudden change to the earth's surface (even if under water) has changed the earth's rotation slightly, and that the earth is ringing like a bell as an aftereffect. Can you tell us more about this? BTW, I have a personal interest in knowing more about this event; I have several business associates (and some that are personal friends) living in/near the affected areas that I am unable to reach; from the magnitude of the disaster it will be weeks to months before I know their status. Any new details will be appreciated. Kreigh Peter J. Modreski wrote: > > Dear Rockhounds list, > > I thought you might be interested in some info available about the Sumatra earthquake (and let me say, this post will stay pretty much stricly "on topic" 'cause I'll keep it about the geology-related aspect of the quake, and not it's human effects.) I sent these notes to some friends, and I thought some of the rest of you might be interested. Those who are inveterate web-watchers probably already have some of these sites bookmarked, but for the rest who may be interested... > > The quake was so strong that it would be readily recognizable from any seismograph anywhere in the world. I went to one of the Mt. Rainier stations that's part of the Pacific Northwest Seismograph Network, and once I figured out the time zones, it's neat to look at an actual seismogram of the quake. If you go to the pnsn.org site and look at their volcano webicorder records (the page where you select the desired station is, > > and select any of the stations (I used Rainier-Mt. Fremont seismograph) for the 12-hour time period designated 12/26/2004 (00), you'll see the seismic waves as they arrived at Mt. Rainier--and, you can't miss it! (Look at the preceding 12-hour record to see a quiet period for comparison.) > > It was confusing to even figure out "which day" the earthquake occurred, because it was the early morning of Dec. 26 in east Asia, but the evening of Dec. 25 here in the U.S. The quake was at 06:58:50 local time Dec. 26 in Sumatra and 00:58:50 Dec. 26 UTC, which made it 5:58:50 p.m. Dec. 25 Mountain Time here in Denver, thus 4:58:50 on the Pacific coast. > > I see that the first seismic wave arrival at Mt. Rainier was (if I'm reading the chart right) at about 01:18 UTC, hence 19 minutes travel time from the point of origin in Sumatra. I think I'm figuring this right. That's for the waves to travel what looks like from a globe, about 1/3 of the way around the world. It will be interesting to check the news stories and compare how long it took the tsunamis to arrive at different places along the Indian Ocean coasts (typically several hour for the t > > P.S., the USGS web page about the earthquake is at, > http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqinthenews/2004/usslav/ > > The pnsn "webicorders" are kept posted for each 5-day period, so after about another 48 hours, those seismograms I referred to above will be wiped off the screen and replaced by more recent records. If you search you can find similar "webicorder" seismograms viewable online for stations all over the U.S., from other seismograph networks. > > best regards to all, > Pete Modreski, Denver CO From kahako at aloha.net Tue Dec 28 00:49:47 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Dec 28 00:20:06 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake (OT) In-Reply-To: <41D0FDC2.228A@Tomaszewski.net> References: <005f01c4ec3a$60572a40$56a3490c@pete> <41D0FDC2.228A@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041227222708.03a3ad00@mail.aloha.net> My brother is in Thailand now. He and his wife were supposed to be on Phuket at the time of the quake, but they decided to leave a day early and are now in the north, near Chang Mai. Their son and his wife were also supposed to be with them but also left just a few hours before the quake, and are now safe in Bangkok. Bill and I had an extremely nervous time for several hours until we heard from them. My brother said they felt the quake strongly in Chang Mai and buildings were swaying. Aloha, Kitty >BTW, I have a personal interest in knowing more about this event; I have >several business associates (and some that are personal friends) living >in/near the affected areas that I am unable to reach; from the magnitude >of the disaster it will be weeks to months before I know their status. > >Any new details will be appreciated. > >Kreigh -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release Date: 12/26/2004 From rockcurrier at cs.com Tue Dec 28 02:45:01 2004 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Tue Dec 28 02:44:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS data and descriptive mineralogy References: <200412280202.iBS22HNC032069@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <006401c4ecca$492580c0$97f7a5d8@rock5> Pete Thanks for the great way you put in perspective the claims of GPS units that claim to be able to handle the data from many GPS satellites. Information is useful, but information put in correct perspective is really much more valuable. I have had a bone to pick with descriptive mineralogy for years in that it is full of information about minerals but very little effort is ever made to put that information into perspective. Lists of minerals found at localities has always been a pet peeve. These lists provide information, but there is often little effort to put it into perspective. A locality produces pyrite and calcite. Who cares. What we want to know is what kind of calcite and pyrite are produced. What do they look like and how do they compare to pyrite and calcite from other localities? We spend all our lives as collectors, dealers and curators learning about stuff like that, but once we learn about it this information is rarely written down. Ultimately we want to know: How good does the pyrite and calcite get from this locality? How much of it was collected and when? When these questions are answered the calcite and pyrite from a particular locality are put in perspective. Ultimately they will help answer the fundamental question that all of us want to know the answer to. Can I get one? Rock From libawc at emory.edu Tue Dec 28 06:54:31 2004 From: libawc at emory.edu (Anita Westlake) Date: Tue Dec 28 06:54:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! In-Reply-To: <20041227194129.53085CB9B2C@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: <007501c4eced$25ff5030$bcbd8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> Dear 15513: You'll always be number "1" in my book! Just don't get too cocky and "moon" someone! Anita D. Westlake From DOMMELEN at DAL.CA Tue Dec 28 07:15:07 2004 From: DOMMELEN at DAL.CA (Ronnie Van Dommelen) Date: Tue Dec 28 07:15:10 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Twins Message-ID: <1104246907.41d1787b10873@my2.dal.ca> Hi All, Over Xmas I found a very nice online article on quartz twins at: http://www.minsocam.org/msa/collectors_corner/arc/qtztwin.htm It mentions several quartz contact twins other than the Japan Law. These are the Esterel, Sardinia, and Breithaupt Laws. I cannot seem to find any other info about these on the web. The article is from 1949, and I wonder if this are still considered valid twins. Or perhaps the names have changed in the meantime. Could someone enlighten me? Thanks in advance. Sincerely, Ronnie Van Dommelen From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 28 07:36:05 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Tue Dec 28 07:27:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake References: <005f01c4ec3a$60572a40$56a3490c@pete> <41D0FDC2.228A@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <001201c4ecf2$f30a5d40$49a4490c@pete> Kreigh, The original email bulletin about the big quake had an underestimate of its magnitude; I think the preliminary notice gave it as 8.5 or something close to that. The USGS often revises the first estimate, and issues a bulletin about it later. So, you may have seen the "big quake" notice at the head of the list but not recognized it as such, because of the lower magnitude given. I'll have to look at the website of your elfrad group. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this type of endeavor is still looked on as "fringe science" by the mainstream science establishment, because the honest fact is that there has been no unambiguous documentation that any true "precursor" events have been recorded that can really be related to specific earthquakes. You know, it's all a matter of statistical analysis of whether a correlation is real or just a matter of approximate coincidence in time and place--so, if there was some kind of rf event recorded 49 minutes before the quake, but no location on the planet determinable--well, who's to say whether that really has any relation to the earthquake? But I'll look at those websites and see what they say, and try to keep an open mind! I haven't read anything specific yet about the change to the earth's rotation. I know that any time there is a significant mass shift in the earth's crust, that invariably affects the earth rotation, by shifting the center of mass. I'm not sure if this has been documented before for instant events like the earthquake; I think people have calculated the effect for slower-term events, like the filling of a large reservoir. If I find anything specific about this, I'll let you know. Now, part of the earth "ringing like a bell" is the longer-frequency seismic waves that you can see for example in that seismogram from the Mt. Rainier-Mt Fremont WA seismic station that I gave the link to the other day; for about 60-80 minutes after the initial p-wave arrival, you can see the continued, long-period (about 4 cycles per minute) oscillation on the seismogram. I'm sure that the type of movement was a classic "subduction zone" earthquake; the Burma Plate thrusting westward, over-riding the India Plate. A story I heard on TV I think said that Sumatra had moved westward by some very measurable amount--I'll have to look for that in print, but on the order of, well, a meter or several. I'm sure that GPS measurements exist and will be published, that will document exactly what happened. Again, I'll let you know of any online sources of info that I find. Good luck about hearing about your friends/associates living in the region. I had an email yesterday from a former USGS friend, who with her husband were vacationing in the Seychelles (between India and Africa); they were on a protected side of an island (La Digue) , so the tsunami was not great (about 2 meters), but it did cause greater damage and some deaths on the Seychelles main island of Mahe. She said that although it was 7 hours after the event that the tsunami arrived there, there was no warning at all--no one had any clue that anything was going to happen; and even after the waves arrived and damaged boats docked along the shore, etc., no one knew why it had happened, until they started listening to the radio. Sincerely, Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 11:32 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake > Pete, > > I subscribe to the USGS notification list for earthquakes (at > http://earthquake.usgs.gov/products/neic_data_services.html), but > somehow missed receiving notice of the big quake (I've received all the > aftershock notices). > > I am also a member of the www.elfrad.org group that has been looking at > earthquake precursor events in ELF/ULF radio frequency data. Charlie > Plyler captured the precursor event 49 minutes before the quake > (http://elfrad.com/Quake/Qinfo22.htm), but was unable to identify where > due to lack of triangulating stations reporting. > > Has the type of earth movement that caused the quake been identified?... the page where you select the desired station is, http://www.pnsn.org/WEBICORDER/VOLC/welcome.html > > > > and select any of the stations (I used Rainier-Mt. Fremont seismograph) for the 12-hour time period designated 12/26/2004 (00), you'll see the seismic waves From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 28 07:50:45 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Tue Dec 28 07:41:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS data and descriptive mineralogy References: <200412280202.iBS22HNC032069@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <006401c4ecca$492580c0$97f7a5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <001e01c4ecf5$04f193a0$49a4490c@pete> Hi Rock, Actually, I think it was Lanny who gave the info about GPS receivers not really being able to use so many satellites, not me--I don't want to take his credit! Well, your descriptive mineralogy question is a complicated one. Certainly, when someone publishes a detailed article about an important locality, such as in Min. Record or Rocks & Minerals or in some monograph they've written, they do document this kind of information, but it just takes a longer article to do so. Right, just a simple list of mineral species can't do the job. But many of the recent "mineral locality index" articles that have appeared in R&M, have included this kind of extra info about what the minerals look like and what kinds of habits/associations are present at a locality, often in the form of photos included with the article; rather than the article just being a concise list of localities & species. Perhaps "mindat" could be a place for posting this kind of information? Right now there only seems to be provision for posting photographs there of minerals from a given locality, not descriptions of the mineral as it occurs at each site. Is this something that can (or already is?) be readily added, to the bare bones list of minerals present? It could, of course, be incorporated into the caption information in each photograph--say, if there was an image documenting each notable different habit of the mineral that occurs at the locality. Any comments from some of our mindat experts? Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rock Currier" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 3:45 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS data and descriptive mineralogy > Pete > Thanks for the great way you put in perspective the claims of GPS units > that claim to be able to handle the data from many GPS satellites. > Information is useful, but information put in correct perspective is really > much more valuable. > > I have had a bone to pick with descriptive mineralogy for years in that it > is full of information about minerals but very little effort is ever made to > put that information into perspective. Lists of minerals found at localities > has always been a pet peeve. These lists provide information, but there is > often little effort to put it into perspective. A locality produces pyrite > and calcite. Who cares. What we want to know is what kind of calcite and > pyrite are produced. What do they look like and how do they compare to > pyrite and calcite from other localities? We spend all our lives as > collectors, dealers and curators learning about stuff like that, but once we > learn about it this information is rarely written down. Ultimately we want > to know: How good does the pyrite and calcite get from this locality? How > much of it was collected and when? When these questions are answered the > calcite and pyrite from a particular locality are put in perspective. > Ultimately they will help answer the fundamental question that all of us > want to know the answer to. Can I get one? > Rock > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From corndogs at charter.net Tue Dec 28 08:49:39 2004 From: corndogs at charter.net (Brenda LaCroix) Date: Tue Dec 28 08:49:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake References: <005f01c4ec3a$60572a40$56a3490c@pete><41D0FDC2.228A@Tomaszewski.net> <001201c4ecf2$f30a5d40$49a4490c@pete> Message-ID: <003401c4ecfd$3924ca90$7c8ca842@dit03r92qai5fx> <> HOW ON EARTH CAN THAT HAPPEN?!?!?!?! I get that there were no warning sirens as with a tornado which gives you a few minutes - but 7 hours time to be notified?!?!?! That is just absolutely horrible, IMO!!! How many lives would have been saved if those people had some warning, even like our "winter weather storm" watches and warnings on the bottom of our tvs. Even if the majority of people don't have tvs, word of mouth in cases like this travels like wildfire!!! All it would have taken was a warning on the motel tvs - after all, they are saying these were resort-type places - and people could have even gotten their most personal possesions (clothes!! I see so many people running around in their bathing suits with nothing!!) to higher ground. Or am I totally wrong about this whole thing?? I just don't understand how in the techonological world we live in, these people had no warning of this impending catpstrophic event!!! I am glad that people are starting to hear from their loved ones and I can only pray that the latest estimates of over 55,000 is not reached :-( It has made me wonder about these types of things in the past and what they did to other civilizations. They certainly didn't have the aid from other countries and their buildings weren't built nearly as well (even if those buildings now weren't perfect!). These are the types of things that literally did wipe out civilizations thousands of years ago, right?? Or am I overexagerating....LOL!!! Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, NE CornDogs@Charter.net Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake Kreigh, The original email bulletin about the big quake had an underestimate of its magnitude; I think the preliminary notice gave it as 8.5 or something close to that. The USGS often revises the first estimate, and issues a bulletin about it later. So, you may have seen the "big quake" notice at the head of the list but not recognized it as such, because of the lower magnitude given. I'll have to look at the website of your elfrad group. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this type of endeavor is still looked on as "fringe science" by the mainstream science establishment, because the honest fact is that there has been no unambiguous documentation that any true "precursor" events have been recorded that can really be related to specific earthquakes. You know, it's all a matter of statistical analysis of whether a correlation is real or just a matter of approximate coincidence in time and place--so, if there was some kind of rf event recorded 49 minutes before the quake, but no location on the planet determinable--well, who's to say whether that really has any relation to the earthquake? But I'll look at those websites and see what they say, and try to keep an open mind! I haven't read anything specific yet about the change to the earth's rotation. I know that any time there is a significant mass shift in the earth's crust, that invariably affects the earth rotation, by shifting the center of mass. I'm not sure if this has been documented before for instant events like the earthquake; I think people have calculated the effect for slower-term events, like the filling of a large reservoir. If I find anything specific about this, I'll let you know. Now, part of the earth "ringing like a bell" is the longer-frequency seismic waves that you can see for example in that seismogram from the Mt. Rainier-Mt Fremont WA seismic station that I gave the link to the other day; for about 60-80 minutes after the initial p-wave arrival, you can see the continued, long-period (about 4 cycles per minute) oscillation on the seismogram. I'm sure that the type of movement was a classic "subduction zone" earthquake; the Burma Plate thrusting westward, over-riding the India Plate. A story I heard on TV I think said that Sumatra had moved westward by some very measurable amount--I'll have to look for that in print, but on the order of, well, a meter or several. I'm sure that GPS measurements exist and will be published, that will document exactly what happened. Again, I'll let you know of any online sources of info that I find. Good luck about hearing about your friends/associates living in the region. I had an email yesterday from a former USGS friend, who with her husband were vacationing in the Seychelles (between India and Africa); they were on a protected side of an island (La Digue) , so the tsunami was not great (about 2 meters), but it did cause greater damage and some deaths on the Seychelles main island of Mahe. She said that although it was 7 hours after the event that the tsunami arrived there, there was no warning at all--no one had any clue that anything was going to happen; and even after the waves arrived and damaged boats docked along the shore, etc., no one knew why it had happened, until they started listening to the radio. Sincerely, Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 11:32 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake > Pete, > > I subscribe to the USGS notification list for earthquakes (at > http://earthquake.usgs.gov/products/neic_data_services.html), but > somehow missed receiving notice of the big quake (I've received all the > aftershock notices). > > I am also a member of the www.elfrad.org group that has been looking at > earthquake precursor events in ELF/ULF radio frequency data. Charlie > Plyler captured the precursor event 49 minutes before the quake > (http://elfrad.com/Quake/Qinfo22.htm), but was unable to identify where > due to lack of triangulating stations reporting. > > Has the type of earth movement that caused the quake been identified?... the page where you select the desired station is, http://www.pnsn.org/WEBICORDER/VOLC/welcome.html > > > > and select any of the stations (I used Rainier-Mt. Fremont seismograph) for the 12-hour time period designated 12/26/2004 (00), you'll see the seismic waves _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 28 09:17:23 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Tue Dec 28 09:08:36 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake References: <005f01c4ec3a$60572a40$56a3490c@pete><41D0FDC2.228A@Tomaszewski.net><001201c4ecf2$f30a5d40$49a4490c@pete> <003401c4ecfd$3924ca90$7c8ca842@dit03r92qai5fx> Message-ID: <000501c4ed01$1a237ca0$7da5490c@pete> Brenda, You're right in everything you say here, of course; these Indian Ocean/Asian countries simply had made no provision for warning the people about such an event. And this was indeed the kind of thing that has destroyed past civilizations--such as the eruption of Santorini/Thera that is believed to have destroyed the Minoan civilization--probably mostly from tsunamis. We should think about other areas on earth that could be subject to this same kind of thing. The news stories have made clear that the entire Pacific rim DOES have a state-of-the-art detection and warning system in place; but that simply had not been extended to the Indian Ocean coasts. It's a matter of international cooperation and priorities, of course; and it has been noted that, what, I think they say 95% of the tsunamis worldwide to occur in the Pacific basin. But, what about the Mediterranean? If there were a catastrophic tsunami right now in the Med, whether due to an earthquake or a volcanic eruption, is there any such warning system in effect, and would warnings be giving? The Med is small, and the time for a warning would be short. I don't think there is anything in place; it could be disastrous. And you may have read in the past year or two, news stories about how some geologists have speculated that a catastropic landslide on the unstable slopes of a volcano in the--and now offhand, I don't remember if it's the Azores or the Canary Islands--could cause a devastating tsunami in the Atlantic. Most scientists have minimized this risk, that it is unlikely to happen "all in one big collapse", and that such events are theoretically possible geologically, but may only take place every million or less years. But if they are wrong and such an event does occur and generates a multi-tens-of-meters-high tsunami all across the Atlantic--would either Europe or the U.S. have any alert system ready to warn the coastside populations? Unfortunately, probably not. There have also been speculations that collapse of unstable areas along the North American continental slope, could also cause tsunamis. I suspect that there is going to be a lot more attention paid to such possibilities, in the near future. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda LaCroix" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake > < the event that the tsunami arrived there, there was no warning at all--no > one had any clue that anything was going to happen; and even after the waves > arrived and damaged boats docked along the shore, etc., no one knew why it > had happened, until they started listening to the radio>> > > HOW ON EARTH CAN THAT HAPPEN?!?!?!?! > > I get that there were no warning sirens as with a tornado which gives you a few minutes - but 7 hours time to be notified?!?!?! > That is just absolutely horrible, IMO!!! How many lives would have been saved if those people had some warning, even like our > "winter weather storm" watches and warnings on the bottom of our tvs. Even if the majority of people don't have tvs, word of mouth > in cases like this travels like wildfire!!! All it would have taken was a warning on the motel tvs - after all, they are saying > these were resort-type places - and people could have even gotten their most personal possesions (clothes!! I see so many people > running around in their bathing suits with nothing!!) to higher ground. > > Or am I totally wrong about this whole thing?? I just don't understand how in the techonological world we live in, these people had > no warning of this impending catpstrophic event!!! > > I am glad that people are starting to hear from their loved ones and I can only pray that the latest estimates of over 55,000 is not > reached :-( It has made me wonder about these types of things in the past and what they did to other civilizations. They > certainly didn't have the aid from other countries and their buildings weren't built nearly as well (even if those buildings now > weren't perfect!). These are the types of things that literally did wipe out civilizations thousands of years ago, right?? Or am I > overexagerating....LOL!!! > Brenda > > Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan > Assisting Boston Terriers > Kearney, NE > CornDogs@Charter.net > Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers > To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! > Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is > merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter J. Modreski" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:36 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake > > > Kreigh, > > The original email bulletin about the big quake had an underestimate of its > magnitude; I think the preliminary notice gave it as 8.5 or something close > to that. The USGS often revises the first estimate, and issues a bulletin > about it later. So, you may have seen the "big quake" notice at the head of > the list but not recognized it as such, because of the lower magnitude > given. > > I'll have to look at the website of your elfrad group. Correct me if I'm > wrong, but I think this type of endeavor is still looked on as "fringe > science" by the mainstream science establishment, because the honest fact is > that there has been no unambiguous documentation that any true "precursor" > events have been recorded that can really be related to specific > earthquakes. You know, it's all a matter of statistical analysis of whether > a correlation is real or just a matter of approximate coincidence in time > and place--so, if there was some kind of rf event recorded 49 minutes before > the quake, but no location on the planet determinable--well, who's to say > whether that really has any relation to the earthquake? But I'll look at > those websites and see what they say, and try to keep an open mind! > > I haven't read anything specific yet about the change to the earth's > rotation. I know that any time there is a significant mass shift in the > earth's crust, that invariably affects the earth rotation, by shifting the > center of mass. I'm not sure if this has been documented before for instant > events like the earthquake; I think people have calculated the effect for > slower-term events, like the filling of a large reservoir. If I find > anything specific about this, I'll let you know. > > Now, part of the earth "ringing like a bell" is the longer-frequency seismic > waves that you can see for example in that seismogram from the Mt. > Rainier-Mt Fremont WA seismic station that I gave the link to the other day; > for about 60-80 minutes after the initial p-wave arrival, you can see the > continued, long-period (about 4 cycles per minute) oscillation on the > seismogram. > > I'm sure that the type of movement was a classic "subduction zone" > earthquake; the Burma Plate thrusting westward, over-riding the India Plate. > A story I heard on TV I think said that Sumatra had moved westward by some > very measurable amount--I'll have to look for that in print, but on the > order of, well, a meter or several. I'm sure that GPS measurements exist > and will be published, that will document exactly what happened. Again, > I'll let you know of any online sources of info that I find. > > Good luck about hearing about your friends/associates living in the region. > I had an email yesterday from a former USGS friend, who with her husband > were vacationing in the Seychelles (between India and Africa); they were on > a protected side of an island (La Digue) , so the tsunami was not great > (about 2 meters), but it did cause greater damage and some deaths on the > Seychelles main island of Mahe. She said that although it was 7 hours after > the event that the tsunami arrived there, there was no warning at all--no > one had any clue that anything was going to happen; and even after the waves > arrived and damaged boats docked along the shore, etc., no one knew why it > had happened, until they started listening to the radio. > > Sincerely, Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 11:32 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake > > > > Pete, > > > > I subscribe to the USGS notification list for earthquakes (at > > http://earthquake.usgs.gov/products/neic_data_services.html), but > > somehow missed receiving notice of the big quake (I've received all the > > aftershock notices). > > > > I am also a member of the www.elfrad.org group that has been looking at > > earthquake precursor events in ELF/ULF radio frequency data. Charlie > > Plyler captured the precursor event 49 minutes before the quake > > (http://elfrad.com/Quake/Qinfo22.htm), but was unable to identify where > > due to lack of triangulating stations reporting. > > > > Has the type of earth movement that caused the quake been identified?... > > > the page where you select the desired station is, > > http://www.pnsn.org/WEBICORDER/VOLC/welcome.html > > > > > > > and select any of the stations (I used Rainier-Mt. Fremont seismograph) > for the 12-hour time period designated 12/26/2004 (00), you'll see the > seismic waves > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From arf at mc.net Tue Dec 28 09:11:43 2004 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Tue Dec 28 09:11:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amazonite References: <200412280202.iBS22HNC032069@bubbleator.drizzle.com><006401c4ecca$492580c0$97f7a5d8@rock5> <001e01c4ecf5$04f193a0$49a4490c@pete> Message-ID: <002901c4ed00$52dd6340$c85f70d1@S0033035959> From: "Peter J. Modreski" Not sure if we have an email problem but I am curious if you have learned anything about the "Amazonite" sample I sent. Sorry for being a pest but I would really like to put this to rest. Thanks, js PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.com From corndogs at charter.net Tue Dec 28 09:30:43 2004 From: corndogs at charter.net (Brenda LaCroix) Date: Tue Dec 28 09:30:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake References: <005f01c4ec3a$60572a40$56a3490c@pete><41D0FDC2.228A@Tomaszewski.net><001201c4ecf2$f30a5d40$49a4490c@pete><003401c4ecfd$3924ca90$7c8ca842@dit03r92qai5fx> <000501c4ed01$1a237ca0$7da5490c@pete> Message-ID: <006401c4ed02$f5f83b20$7c8ca842@dit03r92qai5fx> I feel like I am learning so much right now....and also solidifying that alot of my research has paid off :-) This is really fascinating to me....and I hope that we can accept the fact that the human toll is the most tragic part of this whole thing and know that we are all praying in our own ways for the people who were lost and the people who lost them. Now, about this local possibilities you mention....wouldn't the news medias at least tell us that a massive earthquake had occured just minutes ago in the middle of the Atlantic and everyone immediately move to higher ground?? There would be massive traffic jams, etc - but there would be warnings of some kind, wouldn't there??? Like I said, news like that travels fast....everyone would know within an hour. They might not be able to get home to get personal property, but could certainly head inland from wherever they were immediately, right?? 7 hours is a heck of a long time!!!!!! Even the closest areas had 2 hours....and that is alot of time for them to get the word out for people to head inland. From what I hear, there were masses of people down at the shoreline, investigating the 1000+ feet of water that had receeded, only to be killed by it coming back as a tsunami!! They say there were major rock formations that no one had ever seen before and that people were checking them out and had no idea what the inevitable would be. I just find that horrifically tragic :-( And again, I just don't understand how it could have happened today. 55,000 people is a civilization hundreds of years ago!!! Now, can I ask this question, in a bit more appropriate setting and with the acknowledgement of the horrific loss??? :-) >From what I have read, our 'rocks' are formed when certain of the earth's minerals mix together in the right environment. Is this the type of event that causes new deposits?? Is that material mine-able (sorry, don't know the proper terminology at the moment...) in the next few years or does it take millions of years for stuff like that to be formed?? Again, I am asking for knowledge, not material gain....I hope you can understand that. Does anyone have any websites that I can maybe research to find out this stuff on my own so that I am not seeming insensitive to anyone??? Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, NE CornDogs@Charter.net Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake Brenda, You're right in everything you say here, of course; these Indian Ocean/Asian countries simply had made no provision for warning the people about such an event. And this was indeed the kind of thing that has destroyed past civilizations--such as the eruption of Santorini/Thera that is believed to have destroyed the Minoan civilization--probably mostly from tsunamis. We should think about other areas on earth that could be subject to this same kind of thing. The news stories have made clear that the entire Pacific rim DOES have a state-of-the-art detection and warning system in place; but that simply had not been extended to the Indian Ocean coasts. It's a matter of international cooperation and priorities, of course; and it has been noted that, what, I think they say 95% of the tsunamis worldwide to occur in the Pacific basin. But, what about the Mediterranean? If there were a catastrophic tsunami right now in the Med, whether due to an earthquake or a volcanic eruption, is there any such warning system in effect, and would warnings be giving? The Med is small, and the time for a warning would be short. I don't think there is anything in place; it could be disastrous. And you may have read in the past year or two, news stories about how some geologists have speculated that a catastropic landslide on the unstable slopes of a volcano in the--and now offhand, I don't remember if it's the Azores or the Canary Islands--could cause a devastating tsunami in the Atlantic. Most scientists have minimized this risk, that it is unlikely to happen "all in one big collapse", and that such events are theoretically possible geologically, but may only take place every million or less years. But if they are wrong and such an event does occur and generates a multi-tens-of-meters-high tsunami all across the Atlantic--would either Europe or the U.S. have any alert system ready to warn the coastside populations? Unfortunately, probably not. There have also been speculations that collapse of unstable areas along the North American continental slope, could also cause tsunamis. I suspect that there is going to be a lot more attention paid to such possibilities, in the near future. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda LaCroix" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake > < the event that the tsunami arrived there, there was no warning at all--no > one had any clue that anything was going to happen; and even after the waves > arrived and damaged boats docked along the shore, etc., no one knew why it > had happened, until they started listening to the radio>> > > HOW ON EARTH CAN THAT HAPPEN?!?!?!?! > > I get that there were no warning sirens as with a tornado which gives you a few minutes - but 7 hours time to be notified?!?!?! > That is just absolutely horrible, IMO!!! How many lives would have been saved if those people had some warning, even like our > "winter weather storm" watches and warnings on the bottom of our tvs. Even if the majority of people don't have tvs, word of mouth > in cases like this travels like wildfire!!! All it would have taken was a warning on the motel tvs - after all, they are saying > these were resort-type places - and people could have even gotten their most personal possesions (clothes!! I see so many people > running around in their bathing suits with nothing!!) to higher ground. > > Or am I totally wrong about this whole thing?? I just don't understand how in the techonological world we live in, these people had > no warning of this impending catpstrophic event!!! > > I am glad that people are starting to hear from their loved ones and I can only pray that the latest estimates of over 55,000 is not > reached :-( It has made me wonder about these types of things in the past and what they did to other civilizations. They > certainly didn't have the aid from other countries and their buildings weren't built nearly as well (even if those buildings now > weren't perfect!). These are the types of things that literally did wipe out civilizations thousands of years ago, right?? Or am I > overexagerating....LOL!!! > Brenda > > Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan > Assisting Boston Terriers > Kearney, NE > CornDogs@Charter.net > Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers > To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! > Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is > merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter J. Modreski" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:36 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake > > > Kreigh, > > The original email bulletin about the big quake had an underestimate of its > magnitude; I think the preliminary notice gave it as 8.5 or something close > to that. The USGS often revises the first estimate, and issues a bulletin > about it later. So, you may have seen the "big quake" notice at the head of > the list but not recognized it as such, because of the lower magnitude > given. > > I'll have to look at the website of your elfrad group. Correct me if I'm > wrong, but I think this type of endeavor is still looked on as "fringe > science" by the mainstream science establishment, because the honest fact is > that there has been no unambiguous documentation that any true "precursor" > events have been recorded that can really be related to specific > earthquakes. You know, it's all a matter of statistical analysis of whether > a correlation is real or just a matter of approximate coincidence in time > and place--so, if there was some kind of rf event recorded 49 minutes before > the quake, but no location on the planet determinable--well, who's to say > whether that really has any relation to the earthquake? But I'll look at > those websites and see what they say, and try to keep an open mind! > > I haven't read anything specific yet about the change to the earth's > rotation. I know that any time there is a significant mass shift in the > earth's crust, that invariably affects the earth rotation, by shifting the > center of mass. I'm not sure if this has been documented before for instant > events like the earthquake; I think people have calculated the effect for > slower-term events, like the filling of a large reservoir. If I find > anything specific about this, I'll let you know. > > Now, part of the earth "ringing like a bell" is the longer-frequency seismic > waves that you can see for example in that seismogram from the Mt. > Rainier-Mt Fremont WA seismic station that I gave the link to the other day; > for about 60-80 minutes after the initial p-wave arrival, you can see the > continued, long-period (about 4 cycles per minute) oscillation on the > seismogram. > > I'm sure that the type of movement was a classic "subduction zone" > earthquake; the Burma Plate thrusting westward, over-riding the India Plate. > A story I heard on TV I think said that Sumatra had moved westward by some > very measurable amount--I'll have to look for that in print, but on the > order of, well, a meter or several. I'm sure that GPS measurements exist > and will be published, that will document exactly what happened. Again, > I'll let you know of any online sources of info that I find. > > Good luck about hearing about your friends/associates living in the region. > I had an email yesterday from a former USGS friend, who with her husband > were vacationing in the Seychelles (between India and Africa); they were on > a protected side of an island (La Digue) , so the tsunami was not great > (about 2 meters), but it did cause greater damage and some deaths on the > Seychelles main island of Mahe. She said that although it was 7 hours after > the event that the tsunami arrived there, there was no warning at all--no > one had any clue that anything was going to happen; and even after the waves > arrived and damaged boats docked along the shore, etc., no one knew why it > had happened, until they started listening to the radio. > > Sincerely, Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 11:32 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake > > > > Pete, > > > > I subscribe to the USGS notification list for earthquakes (at > > http://earthquake.usgs.gov/products/neic_data_services.html), but > > somehow missed receiving notice of the big quake (I've received all the > > aftershock notices). > > > > I am also a member of the www.elfrad.org group that has been looking at > > earthquake precursor events in ELF/ULF radio frequency data. Charlie > > Plyler captured the precursor event 49 minutes before the quake > > (http://elfrad.com/Quake/Qinfo22.htm), but was unable to identify where > > due to lack of triangulating stations reporting. > > > > Has the type of earth movement that caused the quake been identified?... > > > the page where you select the desired station is, > > http://www.pnsn.org/WEBICORDER/VOLC/welcome.html > > > > > > > and select any of the stations (I used Rainier-Mt. Fremont seismograph) > for the 12-hour time period designated 12/26/2004 (00), you'll see the > seismic waves > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Tue Dec 28 09:37:33 2004 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn's Mail) Date: Tue Dec 28 09:37:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Massive Earthquake and what it might meantousRockhounds References: <19862772.1104182417815.JavaMail.root@wamui01.slb.atl.earthlink.net> <00ff01c4ec5e$5319b090$8e91fea9@Namibiaminerals> Message-ID: <002701c4ed03$e9b58a10$6601a8c0@GlennWimpee> Well said Willem. This is a true catastrophic natural disaster, however, none of us CAN put the reality of daily requirements aside very long for natural nor man made disatsers (WAR). I feel a tremendous majority of us care deeply for the suffering and loss of those caught up in these events. I pray that we can learn to deal with nature and each other better. Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Willie Steyn" > I don`t want to get involved in a mud slinging contest , but I feel Brenda > was in her rights to ask the questions she did. We live in South Africa and > an average of 20 people is murdered daily in our country but it does not > prohibit the rest of the world to do business with us , for all it matters I > still sell my produce on a daily basis. > It is the way the world evolves. If it was people known personally on the > list my heart goes out to them and they are in our prayers but the world > goes on. > If she did not ask the question another 100 did , that I can assure you. > Brenda I see it not as being rude or ignorant but as a matter of all day > living. Yes we must have respect for the dead and grieve for the lost but > all Brenda did was asking everyday questions avoiding bringing the topic of > the terrible loss to the list. > Grieving and respect is a private matter that each person handles > differently. > Willem Jnr > South Africa From lanny at lrream.com Tue Dec 28 09:06:13 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Tue Dec 28 09:39:42 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Twins In-Reply-To: <1104246907.41d1787b10873@my2.dal.ca> References: <1104246907.41d1787b10873@my2.dal.ca> Message-ID: Hi Ronnie, One big problem with these "other" quartz twins is that they are rare, specimens are quite scarce. There also are disagreements and some confusion. The Quartz volume of Dana (7th edition, and I have no idea what happened with all this data in the single volume latest edition) lists 15 twin laws with inclined axes. As to the Esterel law in the MSA article in your link, Dana states that is a twin law for high quartz, and in low quartz, the law is Reichenstein-Grieserntal. Twinning is on the same plane (10-11). I mention this one as an example because I am familiar with it. The PC claim near Basin, Montana which has produced hundreds (thousands?) of Japan law twins has produced just two twins of the Reichenstein-Grieserntal law. I was lucky in finding one of them; the other was found by the claim owner and is perched on a Japan law twin! I expect that with these other twins, there is disagreement and confusion because of the big problem that few examples are found and thus they are rarely studied. Being so rare, it is likely that if we find one, we will think it's just another two crystals growing together at a random angle. Japan law twins are now easy to recognize because they are not really rare, and most of the time they are tabular and fairly distinctly shaped. Regards, Lanny On Dec 28, 2004, at 7:15 AM, Ronnie Van Dommelen wrote: > Hi All, > > Over Xmas I found a very nice online article on quartz twins at: > http://www.minsocam.org/msa/collectors_corner/arc/qtztwin.htm > > It mentions several quartz contact twins other than the Japan Law. > These are > the Esterel, Sardinia, and Breithaupt Laws. I cannot seem to find any > other > info about these on the web. The article is from 1949, and I wonder > if this > are still considered valid twins. Or perhaps the names have changed > in the > meantime. Could someone enlighten me? > > Thanks in advance. > > Sincerely, > Ronnie Van Dommelen > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From kadok at infowest.com Tue Dec 28 09:45:37 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Tue Dec 28 09:45:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake In-Reply-To: <41D0FDC2.228A@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <20041228174528.4D709CB9CEE@delivery.infowest.com> Yeah, Kreigh -- I also subscribe to that list and didn't get the notification for the big quake (although I have gotten a large number of subsequent ones.) Margaret Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake Pete, I subscribe to the USGS notification list for earthquakes (at http://earthquake.usgs.gov/products/neic_data_services.html), but somehow missed receiving notice of the big quake (I've received all the aftershock notices). I am also a member of the www.elfrad.org group that has been looking at earthquake precursor events in ELF/ULF radio frequency data. Charlie Plyler captured the precursor event 49 minutes before the quake (http://elfrad.com/Quake/Qinfo22.htm), but was unable to identify where due to lack of triangulating stations reporting. Has the type of earth movement that caused the quake been identified? News reports indicate that the sudden change to the earth's surface (even if under water) has changed the earth's rotation slightly, and that the earth is ringing like a bell as an aftereffect. Can you tell us more about this? BTW, I have a personal interest in knowing more about this event; I have several business associates (and some that are personal friends) living in/near the affected areas that I am unable to reach; from the magnitude of the disaster it will be weeks to months before I know their status. Any new details will be appreciated. Kreigh Peter J. Modreski wrote: > > Dear Rockhounds list, > > I thought you might be interested in some info available about the Sumatra earthquake (and let me say, this post will stay pretty much stricly "on topic" 'cause I'll keep it about the geology-related aspect of the quake, and not it's human effects.) I sent these notes to some friends, and I thought some of the rest of you might be interested. Those who are inveterate web-watchers probably already have some of these sites bookmarked, but for the rest who may be interested... > > The quake was so strong that it would be readily recognizable from any seismograph anywhere in the world. I went to one of the Mt. Rainier stations that's part of the Pacific Northwest Seismograph Network, and once I figured out the time zones, it's neat to look at an actual seismogram of the quake. If you go to the pnsn.org site and look at their volcano webicorder records (the page where you select the desired station is, > > and select any of the stations (I used Rainier-Mt. Fremont seismograph) for the 12-hour time period designated 12/26/2004 (00), you'll see the seismic waves as they arrived at Mt. Rainier--and, you can't miss it! (Look at the preceding 12-hour record to see a quiet period for comparison.) > > It was confusing to even figure out "which day" the earthquake occurred, because it was the early morning of Dec. 26 in east Asia, but the evening of Dec. 25 here in the U.S. The quake was at 06:58:50 local time Dec. 26 in Sumatra and 00:58:50 Dec. 26 UTC, which made it 5:58:50 p.m. Dec. 25 Mountain Time here in Denver, thus 4:58:50 on the Pacific coast. > > I see that the first seismic wave arrival at Mt. Rainier was (if I'm reading the chart right) at about 01:18 UTC, hence 19 minutes travel time from the point of origin in Sumatra. I think I'm figuring this right. That's for the waves to travel what looks like from a globe, about 1/3 of the way around the world. It will be interesting to check the news stories and compare how long it took the tsunamis to arrive at different places along the Indian Ocean coasts (typically several hour for the t > > P.S., the USGS web page about the earthquake is at, > http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqinthenews/2004/usslav/ > > The pnsn "webicorders" are kept posted for each 5-day period, so after about another 48 hours, those seismograms I referred to above will be wiped off the screen and replaced by more recent records. If you search you can find similar "webicorder" seismograms viewable online for stations all over the U.S., from other seismograph networks. > > best regards to all, > Pete Modreski, Denver CO _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kadok at infowest.com Tue Dec 28 10:16:55 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Tue Dec 28 10:16:52 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake In-Reply-To: <003401c4ecfd$3924ca90$7c8ca842@dit03r92qai5fx> Message-ID: <20041228181646.BC1C9CB9ABD@delivery.infowest.com> Brenda --, it happened because they do not have the warning devices in place, that we have in the Pacific (and I assume Atlantic?) to detect tsunamis (or potential ones). They probably do not even have seismic measuring equipment in that area. They do not have emergency measures that automatically take over in place to warn people. We live in a nice technological world, here, with all the "mod. Cons." But they do not. And the people running around with their bathing suits on are doing so because they were caught (unawares) while out swimming! Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Brenda LaCroix Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:50 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake <> HOW ON EARTH CAN THAT HAPPEN?!?!?!?! I get that there were no warning sirens as with a tornado which gives you a few minutes - but 7 hours time to be notified?!?!?! That is just absolutely horrible, IMO!!! How many lives would have been saved if those people had some warning, even like our "winter weather storm" watches and warnings on the bottom of our tvs. Even if the majority of people don't have tvs, word of mouth in cases like this travels like wildfire!!! All it would have taken was a warning on the motel tvs - after all, they are saying these were resort-type places - and people could have even gotten their most personal possesions (clothes!! I see so many people running around in their bathing suits with nothing!!) to higher ground. Or am I totally wrong about this whole thing?? I just don't understand how in the techonological world we live in, these people had no warning of this impending catpstrophic event!!! I am glad that people are starting to hear from their loved ones and I can only pray that the latest estimates of over 55,000 is not reached :-( It has made me wonder about these types of things in the past and what they did to other civilizations. They certainly didn't have the aid from other countries and their buildings weren't built nearly as well (even if those buildings now weren't perfect!). These are the types of things that literally did wipe out civilizations thousands of years ago, right?? Or am I overexagerating....LOL!!! Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, NE CornDogs@Charter.net Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake Kreigh, The original email bulletin about the big quake had an underestimate of its magnitude; I think the preliminary notice gave it as 8.5 or something close to that. The USGS often revises the first estimate, and issues a bulletin about it later. So, you may have seen the "big quake" notice at the head of the list but not recognized it as such, because of the lower magnitude given. I'll have to look at the website of your elfrad group. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this type of endeavor is still looked on as "fringe science" by the mainstream science establishment, because the honest fact is that there has been no unambiguous documentation that any true "precursor" events have been recorded that can really be related to specific earthquakes. You know, it's all a matter of statistical analysis of whether a correlation is real or just a matter of approximate coincidence in time and place--so, if there was some kind of rf event recorded 49 minutes before the quake, but no location on the planet determinable--well, who's to say whether that really has any relation to the earthquake? But I'll look at those websites and see what they say, and try to keep an open mind! I haven't read anything specific yet about the change to the earth's rotation. I know that any time there is a significant mass shift in the earth's crust, that invariably affects the earth rotation, by shifting the center of mass. I'm not sure if this has been documented before for instant events like the earthquake; I think people have calculated the effect for slower-term events, like the filling of a large reservoir. If I find anything specific about this, I'll let you know. Now, part of the earth "ringing like a bell" is the longer-frequency seismic waves that you can see for example in that seismogram from the Mt. Rainier-Mt Fremont WA seismic station that I gave the link to the other day; for about 60-80 minutes after the initial p-wave arrival, you can see the continued, long-period (about 4 cycles per minute) oscillation on the seismogram. I'm sure that the type of movement was a classic "subduction zone" earthquake; the Burma Plate thrusting westward, over-riding the India Plate. A story I heard on TV I think said that Sumatra had moved westward by some very measurable amount--I'll have to look for that in print, but on the order of, well, a meter or several. I'm sure that GPS measurements exist and will be published, that will document exactly what happened. Again, I'll let you know of any online sources of info that I find. Good luck about hearing about your friends/associates living in the region. I had an email yesterday from a former USGS friend, who with her husband were vacationing in the Seychelles (between India and Africa); they were on a protected side of an island (La Digue) , so the tsunami was not great (about 2 meters), but it did cause greater damage and some deaths on the Seychelles main island of Mahe. She said that although it was 7 hours after the event that the tsunami arrived there, there was no warning at all--no one had any clue that anything was going to happen; and even after the waves arrived and damaged boats docked along the shore, etc., no one knew why it had happened, until they started listening to the radio. Sincerely, Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 11:32 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake > Pete, > > I subscribe to the USGS notification list for earthquakes (at > http://earthquake.usgs.gov/products/neic_data_services.html), but > somehow missed receiving notice of the big quake (I've received all the > aftershock notices). > > I am also a member of the www.elfrad.org group that has been looking at > earthquake precursor events in ELF/ULF radio frequency data. Charlie > Plyler captured the precursor event 49 minutes before the quake > (http://elfrad.com/Quake/Qinfo22.htm), but was unable to identify where > due to lack of triangulating stations reporting. > > Has the type of earth movement that caused the quake been identified?... the page where you select the desired station is, http://www.pnsn.org/WEBICORDER/VOLC/welcome.html > > > > and select any of the stations (I used Rainier-Mt. Fremont seismograph) for the 12-hour time period designated 12/26/2004 (00), you'll see the seismic waves _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From corndogs at charter.net Tue Dec 28 10:28:37 2004 From: corndogs at charter.net (Brenda LaCroix) Date: Tue Dec 28 10:28:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake References: <20041228181646.BC1C9CB9ABD@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: <00a501c4ed0b$0c53d3e0$7c8ca842@dit03r92qai5fx> While I understand both of those things (grin)....what I don't understand is why no one picked up a phone to tell anyone anything!!! That is what is boggling my mind, I guess....they have tv stations and news stations...India is a very commercialized country, considering the area. Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, NE CornDogs@Charter.net Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margaret Malm" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 12:16 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake Brenda --, it happened because they do not have the warning devices in place, that we have in the Pacific (and I assume Atlantic?) to detect tsunamis (or potential ones). They probably do not even have seismic measuring equipment in that area. They do not have emergency measures that automatically take over in place to warn people. We live in a nice technological world, here, with all the "mod. Cons." But they do not. And the people running around with their bathing suits on are doing so because they were caught (unawares) while out swimming! Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Brenda LaCroix Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:50 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake <> HOW ON EARTH CAN THAT HAPPEN?!?!?!?! I get that there were no warning sirens as with a tornado which gives you a few minutes - but 7 hours time to be notified?!?!?! That is just absolutely horrible, IMO!!! How many lives would have been saved if those people had some warning, even like our "winter weather storm" watches and warnings on the bottom of our tvs. Even if the majority of people don't have tvs, word of mouth in cases like this travels like wildfire!!! All it would have taken was a warning on the motel tvs - after all, they are saying these were resort-type places - and people could have even gotten their most personal possesions (clothes!! I see so many people running around in their bathing suits with nothing!!) to higher ground. Or am I totally wrong about this whole thing?? I just don't understand how in the techonological world we live in, these people had no warning of this impending catpstrophic event!!! I am glad that people are starting to hear from their loved ones and I can only pray that the latest estimates of over 55,000 is not reached :-( It has made me wonder about these types of things in the past and what they did to other civilizations. They certainly didn't have the aid from other countries and their buildings weren't built nearly as well (even if those buildings now weren't perfect!). These are the types of things that literally did wipe out civilizations thousands of years ago, right?? Or am I overexagerating....LOL!!! Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, NE CornDogs@Charter.net Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake Kreigh, The original email bulletin about the big quake had an underestimate of its magnitude; I think the preliminary notice gave it as 8.5 or something close to that. The USGS often revises the first estimate, and issues a bulletin about it later. So, you may have seen the "big quake" notice at the head of the list but not recognized it as such, because of the lower magnitude given. I'll have to look at the website of your elfrad group. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this type of endeavor is still looked on as "fringe science" by the mainstream science establishment, because the honest fact is that there has been no unambiguous documentation that any true "precursor" events have been recorded that can really be related to specific earthquakes. You know, it's all a matter of statistical analysis of whether a correlation is real or just a matter of approximate coincidence in time and place--so, if there was some kind of rf event recorded 49 minutes before the quake, but no location on the planet determinable--well, who's to say whether that really has any relation to the earthquake? But I'll look at those websites and see what they say, and try to keep an open mind! I haven't read anything specific yet about the change to the earth's rotation. I know that any time there is a significant mass shift in the earth's crust, that invariably affects the earth rotation, by shifting the center of mass. I'm not sure if this has been documented before for instant events like the earthquake; I think people have calculated the effect for slower-term events, like the filling of a large reservoir. If I find anything specific about this, I'll let you know. Now, part of the earth "ringing like a bell" is the longer-frequency seismic waves that you can see for example in that seismogram from the Mt. Rainier-Mt Fremont WA seismic station that I gave the link to the other day; for about 60-80 minutes after the initial p-wave arrival, you can see the continued, long-period (about 4 cycles per minute) oscillation on the seismogram. I'm sure that the type of movement was a classic "subduction zone" earthquake; the Burma Plate thrusting westward, over-riding the India Plate. A story I heard on TV I think said that Sumatra had moved westward by some very measurable amount--I'll have to look for that in print, but on the order of, well, a meter or several. I'm sure that GPS measurements exist and will be published, that will document exactly what happened. Again, I'll let you know of any online sources of info that I find. Good luck about hearing about your friends/associates living in the region. I had an email yesterday from a former USGS friend, who with her husband were vacationing in the Seychelles (between India and Africa); they were on a protected side of an island (La Digue) , so the tsunami was not great (about 2 meters), but it did cause greater damage and some deaths on the Seychelles main island of Mahe. She said that although it was 7 hours after the event that the tsunami arrived there, there was no warning at all--no one had any clue that anything was going to happen; and even after the waves arrived and damaged boats docked along the shore, etc., no one knew why it had happened, until they started listening to the radio. Sincerely, Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 11:32 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake > Pete, > > I subscribe to the USGS notification list for earthquakes (at > http://earthquake.usgs.gov/products/neic_data_services.html), but > somehow missed receiving notice of the big quake (I've received all the > aftershock notices). > > I am also a member of the www.elfrad.org group that has been looking at > earthquake precursor events in ELF/ULF radio frequency data. Charlie > Plyler captured the precursor event 49 minutes before the quake > (http://elfrad.com/Quake/Qinfo22.htm), but was unable to identify where > due to lack of triangulating stations reporting. > > Has the type of earth movement that caused the quake been identified?... the page where you select the desired station is, http://www.pnsn.org/WEBICORDER/VOLC/welcome.html > > > > and select any of the stations (I used Rainier-Mt. Fremont seismograph) for the 12-hour time period designated 12/26/2004 (00), you'll see the seismic waves _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov Tue Dec 28 10:37:52 2004 From: rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov (Richard Trapp) Date: Tue Dec 28 10:37:54 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake In-Reply-To: <00a501c4ed0b$0c53d3e0$7c8ca842@dit03r92qai5fx> References: <20041228181646.BC1C9CB9ABD@delivery.infowest.com> <00a501c4ed0b$0c53d3e0$7c8ca842@dit03r92qai5fx> Message-ID: <41D1A800.5010801@azgs.az.gov> Actually there was a discussion of this on NPR this morning. Short story: At this time they believe tsunamis occur in the Indian Ocean on the order of one every FEW HUNDRED years, whereas the frequency in the Pacific Ocean is one every few years or a decade. Consequently, up to now the danger has not seemed urgent. Also consequently, whereas all the Pacific Rim countries have specific agencies and mechanisms in place to alert people to the dangers, countries around the Indian Ocean do not have such centralized agencies; therefore, there was actually no one to call to alert the whole country. The experts say that for "millions of dollars" sensors could be placed on the floor of the Indian Ocean just like in the Pacific Ocean. But with the periodicity ranging to hundreds of years, how long would the countries responsible for maintaining the sensors and the civil alert system pay attention? Years? Decades? Centuries???? Brenda LaCroix wrote: >While I understand both of those things (grin)....what I don't understand is why no one picked up a phone to tell anyone anything!!! >That is what is boggling my mind, I guess....they have tv stations and news stations...India is a very commercialized country, >considering the area. >Brenda > > >Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan >Assisting Boston Terriers >Kearney, NE >CornDogs@Charter.net >Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers >To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! >Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is >merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Margaret Malm" >To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" >Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 12:16 PM >Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake > > >Brenda --, it happened because they do not have the warning devices in >place, that we have in the Pacific (and I assume Atlantic?) to detect >tsunamis (or potential ones). They probably do not even have seismic >measuring equipment in that area. They do not have emergency measures that >automatically take over in place to warn people. We live in a nice >technological world, here, with all the "mod. Cons." >But they do not. >And the people running around with their bathing suits on are doing so >because they were caught (unawares) while out swimming! > >Margaret > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Brenda LaCroix >Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:50 AM >To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake > ><the event that the tsunami arrived there, there was no warning at all--no >one had any clue that anything was going to happen; and even after the waves >arrived and damaged boats docked along the shore, etc., no one knew why it >had happened, until they started listening to the radio>> > >HOW ON EARTH CAN THAT HAPPEN?!?!?!?! > >I get that there were no warning sirens as with a tornado which gives you a >few minutes - but 7 hours time to be notified?!?!?! >That is just absolutely horrible, IMO!!! How many lives would have been >saved if those people had some warning, even like our >"winter weather storm" watches and warnings on the bottom of our tvs. Even >if the majority of people don't have tvs, word of mouth >in cases like this travels like wildfire!!! All it would have taken was a >warning on the motel tvs - after all, they are saying >these were resort-type places - and people could have even gotten their most >personal possesions (clothes!! I see so many people >running around in their bathing suits with nothing!!) to higher ground. > >Or am I totally wrong about this whole thing?? I just don't understand how >in the techonological world we live in, these people had >no warning of this impending catpstrophic event!!! > >I am glad that people are starting to hear from their loved ones and I can >only pray that the latest estimates of over 55,000 is not >reached :-( It has made me wonder about these types of things in the past >and what they did to other civilizations. They >certainly didn't have the aid from other countries and their buildings >weren't built nearly as well (even if those buildings now >weren't perfect!). These are the types of things that literally did wipe >out civilizations thousands of years ago, right?? Or am I >overexagerating....LOL!!! >Brenda > >Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan >Assisting Boston Terriers >Kearney, NE >CornDogs@Charter.net >Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers >To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! >Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your >character is what you really are, while your reputation is >merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Peter J. Modreski" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:36 AM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake > > >Kreigh, > >The original email bulletin about the big quake had an underestimate of its >magnitude; I think the preliminary notice gave it as 8.5 or something close >to that. The USGS often revises the first estimate, and issues a bulletin >about it later. So, you may have seen the "big quake" notice at the head of >the list but not recognized it as such, because of the lower magnitude >given. > >I'll have to look at the website of your elfrad group. Correct me if I'm >wrong, but I think this type of endeavor is still looked on as "fringe >science" by the mainstream science establishment, because the honest fact is >that there has been no unambiguous documentation that any true "precursor" >events have been recorded that can really be related to specific >earthquakes. You know, it's all a matter of statistical analysis of whether >a correlation is real or just a matter of approximate coincidence in time >and place--so, if there was some kind of rf event recorded 49 minutes before >the quake, but no location on the planet determinable--well, who's to say >whether that really has any relation to the earthquake? But I'll look at >those websites and see what they say, and try to keep an open mind! > >I haven't read anything specific yet about the change to the earth's >rotation. I know that any time there is a significant mass shift in the >earth's crust, that invariably affects the earth rotation, by shifting the >center of mass. I'm not sure if this has been documented before for instant >events like the earthquake; I think people have calculated the effect for >slower-term events, like the filling of a large reservoir. If I find >anything specific about this, I'll let you know. > >Now, part of the earth "ringing like a bell" is the longer-frequency seismic >waves that you can see for example in that seismogram from the Mt. >Rainier-Mt Fremont WA seismic station that I gave the link to the other day; >for about 60-80 minutes after the initial p-wave arrival, you can see the >continued, long-period (about 4 cycles per minute) oscillation on the >seismogram. > >I'm sure that the type of movement was a classic "subduction zone" >earthquake; the Burma Plate thrusting westward, over-riding the India Plate. >A story I heard on TV I think said that Sumatra had moved westward by some >very measurable amount--I'll have to look for that in print, but on the >order of, well, a meter or several. I'm sure that GPS measurements exist >and will be published, that will document exactly what happened. Again, >I'll let you know of any online sources of info that I find. > >Good luck about hearing about your friends/associates living in the region. >I had an email yesterday from a former USGS friend, who with her husband >were vacationing in the Seychelles (between India and Africa); they were on >a protected side of an island (La Digue) , so the tsunami was not great >(about 2 meters), but it did cause greater damage and some deaths on the >Seychelles main island of Mahe. She said that although it was 7 hours after >the event that the tsunami arrived there, there was no warning at all--no >one had any clue that anything was going to happen; and even after the waves >arrived and damaged boats docked along the shore, etc., no one knew why it >had happened, until they started listening to the radio. > >Sincerely, Pete > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 11:32 PM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake > > > > >>Pete, >> >>I subscribe to the USGS notification list for earthquakes (at >>http://earthquake.usgs.gov/products/neic_data_services.html), but >>somehow missed receiving notice of the big quake (I've received all the >>aftershock notices). >> >>I am also a member of the www.elfrad.org group that has been looking at >>earthquake precursor events in ELF/ULF radio frequency data. Charlie >>Plyler captured the precursor event 49 minutes before the quake >>(http://elfrad.com/Quake/Qinfo22.htm), but was unable to identify where >>due to lack of triangulating stations reporting. >> >>Has the type of earth movement that caused the quake been identified?... >> >> > > >the page where you select the desired station is, > > http://www.pnsn.org/WEBICORDER/VOLC/welcome.html > > > >>>and select any of the stations (I used Rainier-Mt. Fremont seismograph) >>> >>> >for the 12-hour time period designated 12/26/2004 (00), you'll see the >seismic waves > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > -- Rick Trapp Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tam2819 at cox.net Tue Dec 28 10:51:14 2004 From: tam2819 at cox.net (T.A.Masters) Date: Tue Dec 28 10:51:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake References: <20041228181646.BC1C9CB9ABD@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: <41D1AB22.8020806@cox.net> Margaret, I heard a report regarding the Atlantic Coast in the last day or so. No, there is no such warning system in place at this time. The example of a similarity to the Sumatra earthquake was that one could occur below the Canary Islands and a Tsunami could strike from New York to Florida without enroute sensors in place to make an adequate warning. Teresa From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Tue Dec 28 10:53:11 2004 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Tue Dec 28 10:51:41 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Most powerful earthquake ever In-Reply-To: <41D1A800.5010801@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: Hi everyone, As an aside from the catastrophe in the Indian Ocean, I am curious what might be the most powerful earthquake (or quakes) ever recorded, and how much damage, loss of life, and change of topography occurred in consequence of it or them. Cheers Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Tue Dec 28 10:57:29 2004 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Tue Dec 28 10:57:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake In-Reply-To: <41D1A800.5010801@azgs.az.gov> References: <20041228181646.BC1C9CB9ABD@delivery.infowest.com> <00a501c4ed0b$0c53d3e0$7c8ca842@dit03r92qai5fx> <41D1A800.5010801@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: <41D1AC99.7070207@xs4all.nl> Not only that, a magnitude ~9 earthquake occurs only a few times in a century. All the >9 quakes except for one in the 20th century occured in the northern Pacifc, the other in the Chile. 1960 Chile 9.5 1964 Alaska 9.2 1957 Alaska 9.1 1952 Kamchatka 9 By far not all quakes trigger a tsunami. For this to happen the epicenter has to be in the sea and the seafloor must experience a sudden move upward. So a magnitude 9 quake is pretty rare, a 9-er that poduced a giant tsunami is more rare and having it in the Indian Ocean is something nobody could foresee. What I do agree with Brenda is that common sense did not always prevail.After a full day of coverage on CNN and other media Somalia got hit. Still many people fell victim on the beaches. local authorities should have seen it comming and at least place warning signs. Then again, Somalia does not have much of a government at the moment. cheers, Maurice Richard Trapp wrote: > Actually there was a discussion of this on NPR this morning. > > Short story: At this time they believe tsunamis occur in the Indian > Ocean on the order of one every FEW HUNDRED years, From corndogs at charter.net Tue Dec 28 11:03:43 2004 From: corndogs at charter.net (Brenda LaCroix) Date: Tue Dec 28 11:03:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake References: <20041228181646.BC1C9CB9ABD@delivery.infowest.com><00a501c4ed0b$0c53d3e0$7c8ca842@dit03r92qai5fx> <41D1A800.5010801@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: <00f401c4ed0f$f46700e0$7c8ca842@dit03r92qai5fx> I know....I know....I should just accept it didn't happen and move on, right?? But what I don't get is that isn't a tsunami inevitable from a large earthquake in the ocean like this?? Or am I wrong in that assumption?? If I am, then I apologize and I would be able to understand. But what I am getting at is that people in Washington saw the movement on their seismic readers (whatever they are called) immediately after it happened.....right???? How could those people not put out a warning to SOMEONE......ANYONE - there is an American Embassy everywhere, right??? I don't know.....it just seems that some word could have gotten around to alleviate some of the major loss of life. This is all coming from my own questions as I haven't been watching much of the news, except what is on Good Morning America. I have been sleeping alot the past few days with all of these changes in weather....hard on my health :-( So maybe I am totally off base and these aren't even relevant questions....but I really don't have anyone else to ask :-) Brenda C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Desktop\sig line bold 10 plus name1.htmlBrenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, NE CornDogs@Charter.net Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Trapp" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake Actually there was a discussion of this on NPR this morning. Short story: At this time they believe tsunamis occur in the Indian Ocean on the order of one every FEW HUNDRED years, whereas the frequency in the Pacific Ocean is one every few years or a decade. Consequently, up to now the danger has not seemed urgent. Also consequently, whereas all the Pacific Rim countries have specific agencies and mechanisms in place to alert people to the dangers, countries around the Indian Ocean do not have such centralized agencies; therefore, there was actually no one to call to alert the whole country. The experts say that for "millions of dollars" sensors could be placed on the floor of the Indian Ocean just like in the Pacific Ocean. But with the periodicity ranging to hundreds of years, how long would the countries responsible for maintaining the sensors and the civil alert system pay attention? Years? Decades? Centuries???? Brenda LaCroix wrote: >While I understand both of those things (grin)....what I don't understand is why no one picked up a phone to tell anyone >anything!!! >That is what is boggling my mind, I guess....they have tv stations and news stations...India is a very commercialized country, >considering the area. >Brenda > > >Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan >Assisting Boston Terriers >Kearney, NE >CornDogs@Charter.net >Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers >To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! >Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is >merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Margaret Malm" >To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" >Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 12:16 PM >Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake > > >Brenda --, it happened because they do not have the warning devices in >place, that we have in the Pacific (and I assume Atlantic?) to detect >tsunamis (or potential ones). They probably do not even have seismic >measuring equipment in that area. They do not have emergency measures that >automatically take over in place to warn people. We live in a nice >technological world, here, with all the "mod. Cons." >But they do not. >And the people running around with their bathing suits on are doing so >because they were caught (unawares) while out swimming! > >Margaret > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Brenda LaCroix >Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:50 AM >To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake > ><the event that the tsunami arrived there, there was no warning at all--no >one had any clue that anything was going to happen; and even after the waves >arrived and damaged boats docked along the shore, etc., no one knew why it >had happened, until they started listening to the radio>> > >HOW ON EARTH CAN THAT HAPPEN?!?!?!?! > >I get that there were no warning sirens as with a tornado which gives you a >few minutes - but 7 hours time to be notified?!?!?! >That is just absolutely horrible, IMO!!! How many lives would have been >saved if those people had some warning, even like our >"winter weather storm" watches and warnings on the bottom of our tvs. Even >if the majority of people don't have tvs, word of mouth >in cases like this travels like wildfire!!! All it would have taken was a >warning on the motel tvs - after all, they are saying >these were resort-type places - and people could have even gotten their most >personal possesions (clothes!! I see so many people >running around in their bathing suits with nothing!!) to higher ground. > >Or am I totally wrong about this whole thing?? I just don't understand how >in the techonological world we live in, these people had >no warning of this impending catpstrophic event!!! > >I am glad that people are starting to hear from their loved ones and I can >only pray that the latest estimates of over 55,000 is not >reached :-( It has made me wonder about these types of things in the past >and what they did to other civilizations. They >certainly didn't have the aid from other countries and their buildings >weren't built nearly as well (even if those buildings now >weren't perfect!). These are the types of things that literally did wipe >out civilizations thousands of years ago, right?? Or am I >overexagerating....LOL!!! >Brenda > >Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan >Assisting Boston Terriers >Kearney, NE >CornDogs@Charter.net >Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers >To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! >Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your >character is what you really are, while your reputation is >merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Peter J. Modreski" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:36 AM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake > > >Kreigh, > >The original email bulletin about the big quake had an underestimate of its >magnitude; I think the preliminary notice gave it as 8.5 or something close >to that. The USGS often revises the first estimate, and issues a bulletin >about it later. So, you may have seen the "big quake" notice at the head of >the list but not recognized it as such, because of the lower magnitude >given. > >I'll have to look at the website of your elfrad group. Correct me if I'm >wrong, but I think this type of endeavor is still looked on as "fringe >science" by the mainstream science establishment, because the honest fact is >that there has been no unambiguous documentation that any true "precursor" >events have been recorded that can really be related to specific >earthquakes. You know, it's all a matter of statistical analysis of whether >a correlation is real or just a matter of approximate coincidence in time >and place--so, if there was some kind of rf event recorded 49 minutes before >the quake, but no location on the planet determinable--well, who's to say >whether that really has any relation to the earthquake? But I'll look at >those websites and see what they say, and try to keep an open mind! > >I haven't read anything specific yet about the change to the earth's >rotation. I know that any time there is a significant mass shift in the >earth's crust, that invariably affects the earth rotation, by shifting the >center of mass. I'm not sure if this has been documented before for instant >events like the earthquake; I think people have calculated the effect for >slower-term events, like the filling of a large reservoir. If I find >anything specific about this, I'll let you know. > >Now, part of the earth "ringing like a bell" is the longer-frequency seismic >waves that you can see for example in that seismogram from the Mt. >Rainier-Mt Fremont WA seismic station that I gave the link to the other day; >for about 60-80 minutes after the initial p-wave arrival, you can see the >continued, long-period (about 4 cycles per minute) oscillation on the >seismogram. > >I'm sure that the type of movement was a classic "subduction zone" >earthquake; the Burma Plate thrusting westward, over-riding the India Plate. >A story I heard on TV I think said that Sumatra had moved westward by some >very measurable amount--I'll have to look for that in print, but on the >order of, well, a meter or several. I'm sure that GPS measurements exist >and will be published, that will document exactly what happened. Again, >I'll let you know of any online sources of info that I find. > >Good luck about hearing about your friends/associates living in the region. >I had an email yesterday from a former USGS friend, who with her husband >were vacationing in the Seychelles (between India and Africa); they were on >a protected side of an island (La Digue) , so the tsunami was not great >(about 2 meters), but it did cause greater damage and some deaths on the >Seychelles main island of Mahe. She said that although it was 7 hours after >the event that the tsunami arrived there, there was no warning at all--no >one had any clue that anything was going to happen; and even after the waves >arrived and damaged boats docked along the shore, etc., no one knew why it >had happened, until they started listening to the radio. > >Sincerely, Pete > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 11:32 PM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake > > > > >>Pete, >> >>I subscribe to the USGS notification list for earthquakes (at >>http://earthquake.usgs.gov/products/neic_data_services.html), but >>somehow missed receiving notice of the big quake (I've received all the >>aftershock notices). >> >>I am also a member of the www.elfrad.org group that has been looking at >>earthquake precursor events in ELF/ULF radio frequency data. Charlie >>Plyler captured the precursor event 49 minutes before the quake >>(http://elfrad.com/Quake/Qinfo22.htm), but was unable to identify where >>due to lack of triangulating stations reporting. >> >>Has the type of earth movement that caused the quake been identified?... >> >> > > >the page where you select the desired station is, > > http://www.pnsn.org/WEBICORDER/VOLC/welcome.html > > > >>>and select any of the stations (I used Rainier-Mt. Fremont seismograph) >>> >>> >for the 12-hour time period designated 12/26/2004 (00), you'll see the >seismic waves > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > -- Rick Trapp Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From corndogs at charter.net Tue Dec 28 11:07:49 2004 From: corndogs at charter.net (Brenda LaCroix) Date: Tue Dec 28 11:07:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake References: <20041228181646.BC1C9CB9ABD@delivery.infowest.com> <00a501c4ed0b$0c53d3e0$7c8ca842@dit03r92qai5fx><41D1A800.5010801@azgs.az.gov> <41D1AC99.7070207@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <00fa01c4ed10$8660b180$7c8ca842@dit03r92qai5fx> THANK YOU SO MUCH, Maurice!!! This is exactly what I wanted to know :-) I feel alot better now...as this has really been bothering me....LOL!! Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, NE CornDogs@Charter.net Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice de Graaf" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake Not only that, a magnitude ~9 earthquake occurs only a few times in a century. All the >9 quakes except for one in the 20th century occured in the northern Pacifc, the other in the Chile. 1960 Chile 9.5 1964 Alaska 9.2 1957 Alaska 9.1 1952 Kamchatka 9 By far not all quakes trigger a tsunami. For this to happen the epicenter has to be in the sea and the seafloor must experience a sudden move upward. So a magnitude 9 quake is pretty rare, a 9-er that poduced a giant tsunami is more rare and having it in the Indian Ocean is something nobody could foresee. What I do agree with Brenda is that common sense did not always prevail.After a full day of coverage on CNN and other media Somalia got hit. Still many people fell victim on the beaches. local authorities should have seen it comming and at least place warning signs. Then again, Somalia does not have much of a government at the moment. cheers, Maurice Richard Trapp wrote: > Actually there was a discussion of this on NPR this morning. > > Short story: At this time they believe tsunamis occur in the Indian > Ocean on the order of one every FEW HUNDRED years, _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 28 12:08:30 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Tue Dec 28 11:59:33 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake References: <20041228181646.BC1C9CB9ABD@delivery.infowest.com><00a501c4ed0b$0c53d3e0$7c8ca842@dit03r92qai5fx><41D1A800.5010801@azgs.az.gov> <00f401c4ed0f$f46700e0$7c8ca842@dit03r92qai5fx> Message-ID: <004101c4ed19$03523120$7da5490c@pete> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda LaCroix" > But what I am getting at is that people in Washington saw the movement on their seismic readers (whatever they are called) > immediately after it happened.....right???? > How could those people not put out a warning to SOMEONE......ANYONE - there is an American Embassy everywhere, right??? I don't know.....it just seems that some word could have gotten around to alleviate some of the major loss of life. > I heard them say on the news yesterday that the U.S. government was "desperately" trying to alert countries about the tsunami possibility, after the earthquake happened. I don't think the U.S. was asleep; I think that neither the countries affected nor any international agency, nor the U.S., had any system in place to do this--for those south Asia and Indian Ocean nations. Nor did those countries have any plans in place to notify their populations of such a thing. I know personally that the chief USGS earthquake spokesperson, Waverly Person here in Golden CO, went in to our Earthquake Center here Christmas evening as soon as the Sumatra earthquake happened (6:58 p.m., our time; they have automatic alarms that ring his and others' telephones when there is a big quake), and I suspect he was there much of the night. We do have a "standard" method in place for sending all available information that would be useful about a big quake to all the affected countries, and I'm sure that was used with this one, and I would assume it include a warning about a likely tsunami. The question is whether any of those countries had anyone on alert to respond to the messages and pass them on to their public; and I'm sure that the U.S. was trying to make extra calls and contacts through our embassies and otherwise, to pass this word on those countries. Having the earthquake and tsunami happen on a Sunday morning (like Pearl Harbor), the day after Christmas to boot, was probably one of the worst times for it to happen, to catch everyone unprepared. Pete From rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov Tue Dec 28 11:59:42 2004 From: rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov (Richard Trapp) Date: Tue Dec 28 11:59:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake In-Reply-To: <41D1AC99.7070207@xs4all.nl> References: <20041228181646.BC1C9CB9ABD@delivery.infowest.com> <00a501c4ed0b$0c53d3e0$7c8ca842@dit03r92qai5fx> <41D1A800.5010801@azgs.az.gov> <41D1AC99.7070207@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <41D1BB2E.1080802@azgs.az.gov> Actually, Somalia was hit about 6 hours after the earthquake... Maurice de Graaf wrote: > Not only that, a magnitude ~9 earthquake occurs only a few times in a > century. All the >9 quakes except for one in the 20th century occured > in the northern Pacifc, the other in the Chile. > > 1960 Chile 9.5 > 1964 Alaska 9.2 > 1957 Alaska 9.1 > 1952 Kamchatka 9 > > By far not all quakes trigger a tsunami. For this to happen the > epicenter has to be in the sea and the seafloor must experience a > sudden move upward. So a magnitude 9 quake is pretty rare, a 9-er that > poduced a giant tsunami is more rare and having it in the Indian Ocean > is something nobody could foresee. > > What I do agree with Brenda is that common sense did not always > prevail.After a full day of coverage on CNN and other media Somalia > got hit. Still many people fell victim on the beaches. local > authorities should have seen it comming and at least place warning > signs. Then again, Somalia does not have much of a government at the > moment. > > cheers, > Maurice > > > > > > > > Richard Trapp wrote: > >> Actually there was a discussion of this on NPR this morning. >> >> Short story: At this time they believe tsunamis occur in the Indian >> Ocean on the order of one every FEW HUNDRED years, > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > -- Rick Trapp Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov From corndogs at charter.net Tue Dec 28 12:09:18 2004 From: corndogs at charter.net (Brenda LaCroix) Date: Tue Dec 28 12:09:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake References: <20041228181646.BC1C9CB9ABD@delivery.infowest.com><00a501c4ed0b$0c53d3e0$7c8ca842@dit03r92qai5fx><41D1A800.5010801@azgs.az.gov><00f401c4ed0f$f46700e0$7c8ca842@dit03r92qai5fx> <004101c4ed19$03523120$7da5490c@pete> Message-ID: <013301c4ed19$1d2a6720$7c8ca842@dit03r92qai5fx> Thank you so much, Pete!! That helps alot too....as I said, I have been really disturbed about this. It just seems that we have warnings for darn near everything....and while there is no warning for an earthquake, it isn't as if it could go unnoticed!!! Many years ago it might have, but not anymore. I am glad I had this list to come with my questions!! Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, NE CornDogs@Charter.net Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda LaCroix" > But what I am getting at is that people in Washington saw the movement on their seismic readers (whatever they are called) > immediately after it happened.....right???? > How could those people not put out a warning to SOMEONE......ANYONE - there is an American Embassy everywhere, right??? I don't know.....it just seems that some word could have gotten around to alleviate some of the major loss of life. > I heard them say on the news yesterday that the U.S. government was "desperately" trying to alert countries about the tsunami possibility, after the earthquake happened. I don't think the U.S. was asleep; I think that neither the countries affected nor any international agency, nor the U.S., had any system in place to do this--for those south Asia and Indian Ocean nations. Nor did those countries have any plans in place to notify their populations of such a thing. I know personally that the chief USGS earthquake spokesperson, Waverly Person here in Golden CO, went in to our Earthquake Center here Christmas evening as soon as the Sumatra earthquake happened (6:58 p.m., our time; they have automatic alarms that ring his and others' telephones when there is a big quake), and I suspect he was there much of the night. We do have a "standard" method in place for sending all available information that would be useful about a big quake to all the affected countries, and I'm sure that was used with this one, and I would assume it include a warning about a likely tsunami. The question is whether any of those countries had anyone on alert to respond to the messages and pass them on to their public; and I'm sure that the U.S. was trying to make extra calls and contacts through our embassies and otherwise, to pass this word on those countries. Having the earthquake and tsunami happen on a Sunday morning (like Pearl Harbor), the day after Christmas to boot, was probably one of the worst times for it to happen, to catch everyone unprepared. Pete _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu Tue Dec 28 12:23:25 2004 From: william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu (William Cordua) Date: Tue Dec 28 12:23:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sumatra earthquake In-Reply-To: <00fa01c4ed10$8660b180$7c8ca842@dit03r92qai5fx> Message-ID: Hi. If you want to look at the Pacific Tsunami warning system, there is a site at http://lumahai.soest.hawaii.edu/tsunami.html . A warning still exists in the Pacific for spill-over effects from the Sumatra quake. As I understand it, many of the warning indicators are tidal gauges, which record anomalous values as the wave goes by and allows Pacific rim scientists to track them, then issue warnings through a pre-established network. Pacfiic oastal communities usually have plans of what to do when such a warning is given. I think therefore that the lack of warning in the Sumatra case relates more to a the lack of a system, rather than the lack of sufficient measuring devices. Perhaps one of the few positive things to come out of this will be the establishment of such early warning systems in all the ocean basins. The Mediterranean is an obviously example due its tectonic activity, but a warning system there would be hampered by the basin's relatively small size, which would not give people a lot of time to act. The Atlantic is threatened by tsunamis from the collapse of mid-ocean volcanoes, especially in the Canary Islands such as Tenerife. The sea floor around this chain has obvious debris fans formed by past collapses. The U.S. would have maybe 7-9 hours before a tsunami from such a collapse would reach us - enough time to do some good if perceived in time. Of course, many would be likely killed in the panic to get the heck out of the way. I expect other folks would flock to the coast to see the thing come in. I'm undecided as to which way I'd go. Of course these events are rare, and have as their one of their dangers the fact that they are so unexpected. I think people in the Indian Ocean area really had no idea that tsunamis can travel so far destructively. Thus they made no connection between a distant powerful earthquake and the strange things going on along their coasts until it was too late. A good rule of thumb is that if you see the sea level declining visibly, run inland and up hill. A tsunami will be along in a few minutes. Take care. Bill cordua The Pacfiic on 12/28/04 1:07 PM, Brenda LaCroix at corndogs@charter.net wrote: > THANK YOU SO MUCH, Maurice!!! > > This is exactly what I wanted to know :-) I feel alot better now...as this > has really been bothering me....LOL!! > Brenda > > Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan > Assisting Boston Terriers > Kearney, NE > CornDogs@Charter.net > Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers > To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! > Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your > character is what you really are, while your reputation is > merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Maurice de Graaf" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 12:57 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake > > > From corndogs at charter.net Tue Dec 28 12:24:22 2004 From: corndogs at charter.net (Brenda LaCroix) Date: Tue Dec 28 12:24:20 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Interesting graphic References: <20041228181646.BC1C9CB9ABD@delivery.infowest.com><00a501c4ed0b$0c53d3e0$7c8ca842@dit03r92qai5fx><41D1A800.5010801@azgs.az.gov> <41D1AC99.7070207@xs4all.nl> <41D1BB2E.1080802@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: <015401c4ed1b$37a7f2f0$7c8ca842@dit03r92qai5fx> http://staff.aist.go.jp/kenji.satake/animation.gif Interesting graphic of the Tsunami Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, NE CornDogs@Charter.net Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Trapp" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake Actually, Somalia was hit about 6 hours after the earthquake... Maurice de Graaf wrote: > Not only that, a magnitude ~9 earthquake occurs only a few times in a > century. All the >9 quakes except for one in the 20th century occured > in the northern Pacifc, the other in the Chile. > > 1960 Chile 9.5 > 1964 Alaska 9.2 > 1957 Alaska 9.1 > 1952 Kamchatka 9 > > By far not all quakes trigger a tsunami. For this to happen the > epicenter has to be in the sea and the seafloor must experience a > sudden move upward. So a magnitude 9 quake is pretty rare, a 9-er that > poduced a giant tsunami is more rare and having it in the Indian Ocean > is something nobody could foresee. > > What I do agree with Brenda is that common sense did not always > prevail.After a full day of coverage on CNN and other media Somalia > got hit. Still many people fell victim on the beaches. local > authorities should have seen it comming and at least place warning > signs. Then again, Somalia does not have much of a government at the > moment. > > cheers, > Maurice > > > > > > > > Richard Trapp wrote: > >> Actually there was a discussion of this on NPR this morning. >> >> Short story: At this time they believe tsunamis occur in the Indian >> Ocean on the order of one every FEW HUNDRED years, > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > -- Rick Trapp Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tam2819 at cox.net Tue Dec 28 13:01:55 2004 From: tam2819 at cox.net (T.A.Masters) Date: Tue Dec 28 13:01:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sumatra earthquake References: Message-ID: <41D1C9C3.8020202@cox.net> Bill, Here in San Diego County, a Coastal alert of extreme high wave activity brings the Surfers out in droves. I have seen photos of people standing on rocks to watch these waves, and next a bare rock. People are amazing at times. When the storm has moved East, then rockhounding at the beaches near outflows can be very fruitful. Terrie From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 28 13:15:09 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Tue Dec 28 13:06:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Interesting graphic References: <20041228181646.BC1C9CB9ABD@delivery.infowest.com><00a501c4ed0b$0c53d3e0$7c8ca842@dit03r92qai5fx><41D1A800.5010801@azgs.az.gov><41D1AC99.7070207@xs4all.nl> <41D1BB2E.1080802@azgs.az.gov> <015401c4ed1b$37a7f2f0$7c8ca842@dit03r92qai5fx> Message-ID: <006301c4ed22$512ea960$7da5490c@pete> Brenda, That's a superb graphic animation--thanks for finding it and sharing it. You can see from the beginning of that animation, how apparently pretty much the entire length of the Andaman Island arc subduction zone, moved to cause this earthquake. Not to sound extra alarmist, but this is the same type of long-length subduction zone earthquake, that is acknowledged as a possibility of the Pacific NW coast of the North America. This could generate the "maximum possible" size earthquake that is believed capable of occurring on planet earth, similar to the Sumatra and 1960 Chilean quakes; and such an earthquake could create a very large tsunami that would strike the entire CA-OR-WA-BC coast with very little warning--including of course the Puget Sound area. There have been numerous studies and stories in the news media and scientific literature about this possibility in the last couple of years--if anyone's lacking an extra worry to keep them awake at night. Also, putting the present Indian Ocean disaster in some more context (I just did a little web searching), monsoonal flooding in Bangladesh in 1988 killed about 5000 people. There are numerous kinds of natural hazards that nations need to plan for. FYI, the USGS website, among its posted "FAQ's" and earthquake information, has tabulations of the most destructive earthquakes in the U.S. and worldwide; you can see them at http://earthquake.usgs.gov/bytopic/lists.html on the lists of destructive earthquakes, I see that there were two earthquakes in Italy, in 1908 and 1915, that caused huge numbers of casualties, 70,000+ and 29,000, and the 1908 earthquake included losses from a tsunami. So, such events in the Mediterranean are not hypothetical. As most of us remember to varying degrees, there have been earthquakes in China, Japan, Iran, Pakistan, Chile, Turkey, USSR, Peru, Guatemala, Armenia, India, all in the 20th century and all with huge (>20,000) fatalities. Of course, then there are floods... and wars. Wow, this is getting all very dismal (and diverging off the "rocks" topic, except that we all have to live on these often not so stable things! I'm going to log off for now, drive the 3.5 miles to my office (hi, Jack!) and see if I can't figure out what a certain green stone is! thinking with concern about everything involved in trying to keep human life safe and harmonious on planet earth, Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda LaCroix" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 1:24 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Interesting graphic > http://staff.aist.go.jp/kenji.satake/animation.gif > > Interesting graphic of the Tsunami > From dawnmfredricks at msn.com Tue Dec 28 13:05:45 2004 From: dawnmfredricks at msn.com (Dawn M. Fredricks) Date: Tue Dec 28 13:07:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tsunami info & links Message-ID: Here is a great link with all kinds of tsumani info. Oregon has put much more into this than they have mineral info for several years now. http://www.oregongeology.com/earthquakes/Coast/TsunamiIntro.htm   --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From dawnmfredricks at msn.com Tue Dec 28 13:05:30 2004 From: dawnmfredricks at msn.com (Dawn M. Fredricks) Date: Tue Dec 28 13:07:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tsunami info & links Message-ID: Here is a great link with all kinds of tsumani info. Oregon has put much more into this than they have mineral info for several years now. http://www.oregongeology.com/earthquakes/Coast/TsunamiIntro.htm   --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Dec 28 13:08:41 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Dec 28 13:08:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! In-Reply-To: <007501c4eced$25ff5030$bcbd8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> Message-ID: Too late, too late.... (grin) Did I mention I just saw Elvis? He's up here too... Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Anita Westlake Verzonden: dinsdag 28 december 2004 15:55 Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! Dear 15513: You'll always be number "1" in my book! Just don't get too cocky and "moon" someone! Anita D. Westlake _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Dec 28 13:21:05 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Dec 28 13:20:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! In-Reply-To: <41CF34D9.4010007@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Absolutely fabulous Maurice! I think I'll share the link with the guy from NASA who gave me this present. Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Maurice de Graaf Verzonden: zondag 26 december 2004 23:02 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! The Axel story made me remember. A few nights ago I was watching through my telescope at the heavens, when I saw something I never saw before. I shot a short movie of it. I was looking to the south from the Netherlands. See for yourself: http://maurice.strahlen.org/telescope Cheers, Maurice Willie Steyn wrote: > Baie geluk Axel. Jy het dit voorwaar verdien.Ons wat net elke dag die > e-posse lees en leer vanaf die meesters dink dit was welgedaan. > Willem jnr. > Suid Afrika > > > - Original Message ----- From: "Maurice de Graaf" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 10:31 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! > > >> Axel, >> >> Any chance that we get to see a picture of your planet? Maybe we can >> find some resembances :-) >> >> Do you know how big the new addition to the Emmermann family is? >> (Any possible relation with the first sentence of this mail is purely >> coincidental...) >> >> Congretulations, >> Maurice >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Axel Emmermann wrote: >> >>> Hi Margaret >>> >>> Thank you... bow bow... thank you vey much... bow bow >>> Hernia starting to show.... >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Axel >>> 15513 (seems it's customary to put the number of your asteroid under >>> your >>> signature, if you got one) >>> >>> PS: I'm a show-off aren't I???? Hahaaaaaaaaa >>> >>> >>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >>> Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >>> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm >>> Verzonden: zondag 26 december 2004 18:43 >>> Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>> collectors' >>> Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! >>> >>> >>> Hey, yes! I second Kitty's statement! >>> >>> Margaret >>> >>> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! >>> >>> Congratulations, Axel! You well deserve to be an asteroid! Yay, >>> bravo, >>> clap-clap-clap! >>> >>> Aloha, Kitty >>> >>> >>> At 03:09 PM 12/25/2004, Axel wrote: >>> >>>> Now guys, did I get a chistmas present: go look at >>>> http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/lists/MPNames.html and click on the >>>> "E". >>>> Then scrol down and look between "Emmarochelle" and "Emmons" and >>>> tell me >>>> what you find. >>>> >>>> Tomorrow I am going to call my dear friend Doctor Everett Gibson >>>> form NASA >>>> and thank him for bestowing this great honor upon me. >>>> Look to he heavens... I'm between Jupiter and Mars. >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> >>>> Axel ( the real one, not the planetoid) >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>> Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Dec 28 13:29:23 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Dec 28 13:28:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! In-Reply-To: <41CF1F99.1070903@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Hi Maurice >Any chance that we get to see a picture of your planet? Maybe we can >find some resembances :-) It's bald alright! and round...;-))) >Do you know how big the new addition to the Emmermann family is? >(Any possible relation with the first sentence of this mail is purely >coincidental...) I have no idea... I 'll look it up one of these days. Right now I'm torn betwen a backlash in work, slight computer problem and the terrible disaster that struck half the world. We haven't begun to see the damage and loss of life yet. Cheers Axel From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Dec 28 13:37:43 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Dec 28 13:37:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! In-Reply-To: <001b01c4eb84$a54528c0$b1a4490c@pete> Message-ID: Thanks Pete! To answer your question, or at least partially: the asteroid was discovered by the asteroid search group at Anderson Mesa, Arizona. They are associated with the Lowell Observatory in Flagstaff, Arizona-made famous by Percivell Lowell. Loneos stands for Lowell Observatory Near-Earth Object Search. Here's more: http://www.lowell.edu/users/elgb/loneos_disc.html Thanks again Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Peter J. Modreski Verzonden: zondag 26 december 2004 20:54 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! Dear Axel, I want to add my congratulations to those of all the others, about your namesake up there. That's quite an honor, and well deserved! I looked at the Minor Planets website you gave the link to; I'm impressed (1) with how many have been discovered and catalogued; (2) how many have been named (I guess I didn't realize that all those planetoids are given names; one hears a lot about comets, but not so much about the asteroids; there must be a lot more of these, than the comets!); and (3)... just the whole business, contratulations again! I see that your object was discovered in 1999, and the discovery site is given as "Anderson Mesa". I wonder where that is--sounds like it could be New Mexico (or other places, I'm sure--just guessing). Also that the discoverer is given as "LONEOS"; I don't know what that means, but I'm guessing it's some (automated?) asteroid-searching project, rather than an individual; I see from the list of Discoverers on that site, it's ranked as the second-most prolific discoverer of MP's between 1998-2004; 4899 objects discovered. (I'm sure I could satisfy my curiosity with a very quick web search on LONEOS, and then I'd know.) Congratulations again, and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! Pete Modreski, Denver CO _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Dec 28 13:42:59 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Dec 28 13:42:33 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20041226094746.0340e4e0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: Kitty wrote: >Some time ago I called you a "shrinking violet" I shall forthwith change my name in "freakin' Ultra-violet" Cheers TAFKASHRIV (The artist formerly known as shrinking violet) PS: We're glad your family got out of that calamity uninjured! From kahako at aloha.net Tue Dec 28 15:00:58 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Dec 28 14:30:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sri Lanka & Arthur C Clarke In-Reply-To: <41D1C9C3.8020202@cox.net> References: <41D1C9C3.8020202@cox.net> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041228122025.044aa8c0@mail.aloha.net> Earlier this morning Bill and I were wondering about Arthur C. Clarke, who lives in Sri Lanka. We were hoping he is safe. Bill mentioned that he is---in addition to being a Science Fiction writer---an avid scuba diver, so we were hoping he was not at the beach at the time of the trunami, but we assumed that some large public announcement would have been made if a famous and popular writer had been killed or injured. Clarke also invented the concept of geosynchronous orbits (so satellites can stay in one place in relation to earth), joined Stanley Kubric for "2002, A Space Odyssey," and pioneered the idea of using rockets and satellites for weather research. So I did some searching and found the following site which includes a letter from Clarke written December 27 regarding the tsunami in Sri Lanka. http://clarkeinstitute.com/ The following website is a biography of Clarke, and includes his famous "three laws." For those who don't want to bother with going to the site, I'll quote here: 1. "When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong." 2. "The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible." 3. "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." He wrote after the laws that "Since three laws was sufficient for both the Isaacs - Newton and Asimov - I have decided to stop here;" however, he continued to write laws, as we can see in the Appendix 2 of The Odyssey File where he states the Clarke's 69th Law: "Reading computer manuals without the hardware is as frustrating as reading sex manuals without the software." I thought several members of our List would appreciate that humor. I'm waiting for someone to comment on "software"...but then again, maybe we'd better not go there! http://www.lsi.usp.br/~rbianchi/clarke/ACC.Biography.html Aloha, Kitty -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.6 - Release Date: 12/28/2004 From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Tue Dec 28 15:22:07 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Tue Dec 28 15:22:33 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collector in North Carolina In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20041228122025.044aa8c0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <200412282322.iBSNMVNn006051@bubbleator.drizzle.com> I'm trying to remember / re-connect with a chap I did some trading with a number of years ago. He worked during the summers as a counselor at a "Woodsman of the World" summer camp somewhere down in the Carolinas. Old-time list members probably remember who he is. My grey cells have gone on vacation. Help! Thanks... Gary Brown From geenet2 at mchsi.com Tue Dec 28 16:25:19 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Tue Dec 28 16:26:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake References: <20041228181646.BC1C9CB9ABD@delivery.infowest.com><00a501c4ed0b$0c53d3e0$7c8ca842@dit03r92qai5fx> <41D1A800.5010801@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: <004801c4ed3c$e0ebffc0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> BUT when one hears of, or feels an earthquake, especially one offshore, doesn't it logically preclude a tsunami event of some magnitude SOMEWHERE? As soon as I saw the first notice online about an 8.5 earthquake off Sumatra, I thought to myself where will the tidal wave hit? If the news services had picked up on the earthquake immediately, I don't see how the awareness of a possible tidal wave didn't occur to the civil authorities in every one of those coastal villages and towns. Even if the Pacific gets the majority of earthquake---->tidal wave occurrences. Wouldn't an 8.5 in the Indian Ocean alarm you if you were in that neighborhood?? It wouldn't take "million dollar sensors" to make me head for high ground, especially in an island nation. Jeanette > Actually there was a discussion of this on NPR this morning. > > Short story: At this time they believe tsunamis occur in the Indian > Ocean on the order of one every FEW HUNDRED years, whereas the frequency > in the Pacific Ocean is one every few years or a decade. Consequently, > up to now the danger has not seemed urgent. Also consequently, whereas > all the Pacific Rim countries have specific agencies and mechanisms in > place to alert people to the dangers, countries around the Indian Ocean > do not have such centralized agencies; therefore, there was actually no > one to call to alert the whole country. The experts say that for > "millions of dollars" sensors could be placed on the floor of the Indian > Ocean just like in the Pacific Ocean. But with the periodicity ranging > to hundreds of years, how long would the countries responsible for > maintaining the sensors and the civil alert system pay attention? Years? > Decades? Centuries???? > > > > Brenda LaCroix wrote: > > >While I understand both of those things (grin)....what I don't understand is why no one picked up a phone to tell anyone anything!!! > >That is what is boggling my mind, I guess....they have tv stations and news stations...India is a very commercialized country, > >considering the area. > >Brenda >/rockhounds From jbryankramer at msn.com Tue Dec 28 16:40:26 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Dec 28 16:40:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake In-Reply-To: <004801c4ed3c$e0ebffc0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: I think it depends on the type of motion generated by that earthquake. Quakes with a large vertical motion tend to make tsunamis. As for the frequency of tsunamis in the Indian ocean...they had a government official from the Maldives on NPR tonight who said that they had a small tsunami in 1987, the Krakatoa explosion generated a large tsunami (30 to 40 meters high, much larger than this one) in the 1800's so the every couple hundred years theory seems unlikely. Wasn't there another volcanic event around the time of Krakatoa in te same area? Bryan -------Original Message----- -- -- --BUT when one hears of, or feels an earthquake, especially one --offshore, doesn't it logically preclude a tsunami event of --some magnitude SOMEWHERE? As soon as I saw the first notice --online about an 8.5 earthquake off Sumatra, I thought to --myself where will the tidal wave hit? If the news services --had picked up on the earthquake immediately, I don't see how --the awareness of a possible tidal wave didn't occur to the --civil authorities in every one of those coastal villages and --towns. Even if the Pacific gets the majority of --earthquake---->tidal wave occurrences. Wouldn't an 8.5 in the --Indian Ocean alarm you if you were in that neighborhood?? It --wouldn't take "million dollar sensors" to make me head for --high ground, especially in an island nation. -- --Jeanette -- --> Actually there was a discussion of this on NPR this morning. --> --> Short story: At this time they believe tsunamis occur in the Indian --> Ocean on the order of one every FEW HUNDRED years, whereas the --> frequency in the Pacific Ocean is one every few years or a decade. --> Consequently, up to now the danger has not seemed urgent. Also --> consequently, whereas all the Pacific Rim countries have specific --> agencies and mechanisms in place to alert people to the dangers, --> countries around the Indian Ocean do not have such centralized --> agencies; therefore, there was actually no one to call to alert the --> whole country. The experts say that for "millions of --dollars" sensors --> could be placed on the floor of the Indian Ocean just like in the --> Pacific Ocean. But with the periodicity ranging to hundreds --of years, --> how long would the countries responsible for maintaining --the sensors --> and the civil alert system pay attention? Years? Decades? --> Centuries???? --> --> --> --> Brenda LaCroix wrote: --> --> >While I understand both of those things (grin)....what I don't --> >understand --is why no one picked up a phone to tell anyone anything!!! --> >That is what is boggling my mind, I guess....they have tv stations --> >and --news stations...India is a very commercialized country, --> >considering the area. --> >Brenda -->/rockhounds -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 28 16:49:49 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Tue Dec 28 16:41:33 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake References: <20041228181646.BC1C9CB9ABD@delivery.infowest.com><00a501c4ed0b$0c53d3e0$7c8ca842@dit03r92qai5fx><41D1A800.5010801@azgs.az.gov> <004801c4ed3c$e0ebffc0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <009101c4ed40$54d43620$7da5490c@pete> Yes, Jeanette, "you would think", certainly, all that. If I had been anywhere in the area, and I heard about (or felt, I think) the earthquake, I would certainly have headed to at least modestly high ground, and tried to get news by radio or whatever. You would think that "someone", in the local areas, upon hearing of the strong earthquake, would have tried to get the word out. The news stories I heard did say that the Thai "Meteorological Agency" did know to expect a tsunami and tried to spread the word, but there was nothing set up to facilitate doing that. It was reported (as you probably heard or read) that the first warnings in Thailand did not go out until about the time the first waves were already hitting the coast, and there was nothing on any websites there until several hours too late. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanette Wimpee" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 5:25 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake > BUT when one hears of, or feels an earthquake, especially one offshore, > doesn't it logically preclude a tsunami event of some magnitude SOMEWHERE? > As soon as I saw the first notice online about an 8.5 earthquake off > Sumatra, I thought to myself where will the tidal wave hit? If the news > services had picked up on the earthquake immediately, I don't see how the > awareness of a possible tidal wave didn't occur to the civil authorities in > every one of those coastal villages and towns. Even if the Pacific gets the > majority of earthquake---->tidal wave occurrences. Wouldn't an 8.5 in the > Indian Ocean alarm you if you were in that neighborhood?? It wouldn't take > "million dollar sensors" to make me head for high ground, especially in an > island nation. > > Jeanette > From jbryankramer at msn.com Tue Dec 28 16:42:49 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Dec 28 16:42:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sri Lanka & Arthur C Clarke In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20041228122025.044aa8c0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: I saw a statement from Clarke today, he is safe and was apparently away from the coast when the event occurred. His property was in the center of the area of major destruction and was extensively damaged. Some employees may be missing. Bryan -------Original Message----- -- --Earlier this morning Bill and I were wondering about Arthur --C. Clarke, who --lives in Sri Lanka. We were hoping he is safe. Bill --mentioned that he - From jbryankramer at msn.com Tue Dec 28 16:56:40 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Dec 28 16:56:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake In-Reply-To: Message-ID: To answer my own question, it was Tambora in 1815 (the year without a summer) and it cause sea level rises of about 3-4 meters. Also located in Indonesia. Bryan -------Original Message----- -- --I think it depends on the type of motion generated by that --earthquake. Quakes with a large vertical motion tend to make tsunamis. -- -- As for the frequency of tsunamis in the Indian ocean...they --had a government official from the Maldives on NPR tonight --who said that they had a small tsunami in 1987, the Krakatoa --explosion generated a large tsunami (30 to 40 meters high, --much larger than this one) in the 1800's so the every couple --hundred years theory seems unlikely. Wasn't there another --volcanic event around the time of Krakatoa in te same area? -- --Bryan -- -- ---------Original Message----- ---- ---- ----BUT when one hears of, or feels an earthquake, especially one ----offshore, doesn't it logically preclude a tsunami event of ----some magnitude SOMEWHERE? As soon as I saw the first notice ----online about an 8.5 earthquake off Sumatra, I thought to ----myself where will the tidal wave hit? If the news services ----had picked up on the earthquake immediately, I don't see how ----the awareness of a possible tidal wave didn't occur to the ----civil authorities in every one of those coastal villages and ----towns. Even if the Pacific gets the majority of ----earthquake---->tidal wave occurrences. Wouldn't an 8.5 in the ----Indian Ocean alarm you if you were in that neighborhood?? It ----wouldn't take "million dollar sensors" to make me head for ----high ground, especially in an island nation. ---- ----Jeanette ---- ----> Actually there was a discussion of this on NPR this morning. ----> ----> Short story: At this time they believe tsunamis occur in --the Indian ----> Ocean on the order of one every FEW HUNDRED years, whereas the ----> frequency in the Pacific Ocean is one every few years or --a decade. ----> Consequently, up to now the danger has not seemed urgent. Also ----> consequently, whereas all the Pacific Rim countries have specific ----> agencies and mechanisms in place to alert people to the dangers, ----> countries around the Indian Ocean do not have such centralized ----> agencies; therefore, there was actually no one to call to --alert the ----> whole country. The experts say that for "millions of ----dollars" sensors ----> could be placed on the floor of the Indian Ocean just like in the ----> Pacific Ocean. But with the periodicity ranging to hundreds ----of years, ----> how long would the countries responsible for maintaining ----the sensors ----> and the civil alert system pay attention? Years? Decades? ----> Centuries???? ----> ----> ----> ----> Brenda LaCroix wrote: ----> ----> >While I understand both of those things (grin)....what I don't ----> >understand ----is why no one picked up a phone to tell anyone anything!!! ----> >That is what is boggling my mind, I guess....they have --tv stations ----> >and ----news stations...India is a very commercialized country, ----> >considering the area. ----> >Brenda ---->/rockhounds ---- ----_______________________________________________ ----Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List ----WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds ----Subscription Services: ----http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ---- -- -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- From johnjold at comcast.net Tue Dec 28 17:25:40 2004 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Tue Dec 28 17:26:05 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS question In-Reply-To: References: <20041227194400.18216.qmail@web51004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8D489092-5938-11D9-A970-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> > Thanks to everybody who helped with the GPS question. I am almost > ready to talk to a salesman. I have another question. What is the > practical difference between mapping and non mapping handheld GPS > units? John J From jbryankramer at msn.com Tue Dec 28 17:33:10 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Dec 28 17:33:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake In-Reply-To: <41D1AC99.7070207@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: The New Madrid mid-plate earthquake series had at least three of the four quakes around the high 8's and low 9's, the third quake is supposedly just below The 1960 Chile event in magnitude. The cause of the New Madrid quakes is still a mystery. The 1755 Lisbon earthquake was estimated to be around magnitude 9 and generated tsunamis as well. So there are examples of big quakes away from the Pacific rim. Bryan -------Original Message----- -- -- --Not only that, a magnitude ~9 earthquake occurs only a few --times in a --century. All the >9 quakes except for one in the 20th century --occurred in --the northern Pacific, the other in the Chile. -- --1960 Chile 9.5 --1964 Alaska 9.2 --1957 Alaska 9.1 --1952 Kamchatka 9 -- --By far not all quakes trigger a tsunami. For this to happen the --epicenter has to be in the sea and the seafloor must --experience a sudden --move upward. So a magnitude 9 quake is pretty rare, a 9-er --that poduced --a giant tsunami is more rare and having it in the Indian Ocean is --something nobody could foresee. -- --What I do agree with Brenda is that common sense did not always --prevail.After a full day of coverage on CNN and other media --Somalia got --hit. Still many people fell victim on the beaches. local authorities --should have seen it comming and at least place warning signs. Then --again, Somalia does not have much of a government at the moment. -- --cheers, --Maurice -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --Richard Trapp wrote: -- --> Actually there was a discussion of this on NPR this morning. --> --> Short story: At this time they believe tsunamis occur in the Indian --> Ocean on the order of one every FEW HUNDRED years, -- -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- From jbryankramer at msn.com Tue Dec 28 17:38:35 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Dec 28 17:38:42 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Most powerful earthquake ever In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Seismographs weren't invented until the last half of the 1800's. Early seismoscopes were in use for the New Madrid quakes but weren't calibrated and of course left no record. So the Chile event in 1960 would have to be the greatest recorded quake. Without a doubt there have been much larger events in the past. Bryan -------Original Message----- -- --Hi everyone, -- --As an aside from the catastrophe in the Indian Ocean, I am --curious what --might be the most powerful earthquake (or quakes) ever recorded, and --how much damage, loss of life, and change of topography occurred in --consequence of it or them. -- --Cheers --Hans Durstling --Moncton, Canada -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- From jbryankramer at msn.com Tue Dec 28 17:46:12 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Dec 28 17:46:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake In-Reply-To: <000501c4ed01$1a237ca0$7da5490c@pete> Message-ID: Well in Kenya, the government got on the phones and evacuated the shorelines. As a consequence only 2 were killed there. Somalia, just up the coast did nothing and hundreds were killed there, maybe more. Your government has a lot to say about these disasters. BTW An automatic warning (actually two warning messages were sent) was generated by the Pacific tsunami system, if only the Indians, Indonesian and Sri lanki had just monitored that they wouldn't have needed millions in equipment. All the had to do was subscribe to the right list and then take the sensible action. Bryan -------Original Message----- -- --Brenda, -- --You're right in everything you say here, of course; these --Indian Ocean/Asian countries simply had made no provision for --warning the people about such an event. And this was indeed --the kind of thing that has destroyed past civilizations--such --as the eruption of Santorini/Thera that is believed to have --destroyed the Minoan civilization--probably mostly from tsunamis. From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Tue Dec 28 19:01:23 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Tue Dec 28 19:01:25 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Madrid earthquakes References: Message-ID: <00b201c4ed52$b0a87df0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Mystery? There is no mystery. The New Madrid fault zone is part of the mid continent rift system. It was formed in the Precambrian (~700 m.y.a.) and is still active today. It is thought that the earthquakes in 1811 - 12 occur about every 500 or so years. Those periodic earthquakes and tsunamis that occurred when the continent was under shallow seas (i.e., Cambrian - Upper Mississippian) could have caused a lot of the so called tempestites and created things like the Crawfordsville crinoid beds. (Combined with the more mundane hurricanes and tropical storms.) Although the rift is no longer active, I read somewhere that the continental ocean sediments (and later the Mississippi River) would continue to add sediments in the rift valley over time. As a result of sediment being deposited for such a long time, some 20,000 feet of sediment has covered the original structure and the weight of all that sediment keeps the faults moving - greasing the wheel so to speak. Since I'm not a geophysicist, I can only regurgitate info that I read. There are some excellent books on the New Madrid Quakes, including some great stories from eye witnesses (like John James Audubon). Visit Reelfoot Lake in Tennessee - that was created by the shifting of land under the Mississippi! Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 8:33 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake > The New Madrid mid-plate earthquake series had at least three of the four > quakes around the high 8's and low 9's, the third quake is supposedly just > below The 1960 Chile event in magnitude. The cause of the New Madrid > quakes > is still a mystery. > > The 1755 Lisbon earthquake was estimated to be around magnitude 9 and > generated tsunamis as well. So there are examples of big quakes away from > the Pacific rim. > > Bryan > > -------Original Message----- > -- > -- > --Not only that, a magnitude ~9 earthquake occurs only a few > --times in a > --century. All the >9 quakes except for one in the 20th century > --occurred in > --the northern Pacific, the other in the Chile. > -- > --1960 Chile 9.5 > --1964 Alaska 9.2 > --1957 Alaska 9.1 > --1952 Kamchatka 9 > -- > --By far not all quakes trigger a tsunami. For this to happen the > --epicenter has to be in the sea and the seafloor must > --experience a sudden > --move upward. So a magnitude 9 quake is pretty rare, a 9-er > --that poduced > --a giant tsunami is more rare and having it in the Indian Ocean is > --something nobody could foresee. > -- > --What I do agree with Brenda is that common sense did not always > --prevail.After a full day of coverage on CNN and other media > --Somalia got > --hit. Still many people fell victim on the beaches. local authorities > --should have seen it comming and at least place warning signs. Then > --again, Somalia does not have much of a government at the moment. > -- > --cheers, > --Maurice > -- > -- > -- > -- > -- > -- > -- > --Richard Trapp wrote: > -- > --> Actually there was a discussion of this on NPR this morning. > --> > --> Short story: At this time they believe tsunamis occur in the Indian > --> Ocean on the order of one every FEW HUNDRED years, > -- > -- > --_______________________________________________ > --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > --Subscription Services: > --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > -- > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Dec 28 17:14:30 2004 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Tue Dec 28 19:15:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Madrid earthquakes References: <00b201c4ed52$b0a87df0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <004301c4ed43$c6633a40$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Goldstein" > Although the rift is no longer active, When I was at the University of Illinois (1973-74) at Champaign/Urbana we experienced a small earthquake or tremor. I lived on the 13th floor of an apartment building. The building swayed, the record skipped and pictures fell off the wall. Woke me right out of a well deserved nap! I don't know if the "rift" is active, but the fault still is. John Siebel Santa, Idaho From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Tue Dec 28 19:31:18 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Tue Dec 28 19:31:15 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] descriptive mineralogy References: <200412280202.iBS22HNC032069@bubbleator.drizzle.com><006401c4ecca$492580c0$97f7a5d8@rock5> <001e01c4ecf5$04f193a0$49a4490c@pete> Message-ID: <00b701c4ed56$dc263b80$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I've written the Kentucky Mineral Locality Index. (It is in its final editing stage.) For all practical purposes, it is a list of minerals with collectible species in italics (collectible = usually crystallized). I wish I could add descriptive detail, but the result would be too large to fit in a magazine. Some of the mines in the western and central KY fluorspar districts are not known for mineral specimens because they were mined long ago (1811 - late 1800's) and there was little or no collecting during the short period they operated. In some cases where specimens were preserved, no detailed information was recorded. But there are plenty of other localities where this information is still available! I have turned to mindat to fill the void, but it has limitations. As Pete pointed out, the locality page has a field for adding mineral names, but no place for descriptions like "golden brown scalenohedrons to 50 cm." I've put that kind of information with the mineral photos I've added, but there are obvious limitations, i.e., having to look through all of the photos from a particular locality. At this time, that isn't a major issue, because most localities (at least those that I have looked at) have small numbers of mineral photos posted. (The largest number I have found in my limited searches are with the Minerva No. 1 mine.) Assuming that mindat doesn't disappear due to a computer hacker, web host problems, etc., eventually all collectible sites should be documented with lots of photos! Imagine if all the Franklin mineral species were illustrated, or minerals/crystal habits/associations from the Annabel Lee mine or the National Belle mine! Mindat should be organized as a database where one could type in "calcite" + "Elmwood" in a seach field and only those photos (or that data) would come up. From what I can figure, they are not there yet. But I plug away adding photos of minerals and localities as time allows. For example, check out the Corydon Quarry, Hasties Quarry or Beryl Pit to see what I have done. Personally, I'd like to see anyone on this list submit photos of minerals and localities. This is a group from across the globe. All you need is a digital camera or a scanner. (Or know someone with one...) Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 10:50 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] GPS data and descriptive mineralogy > Hi Rock, > > Actually, I think it was Lanny who gave the info about GPS receivers not > really being able to use so many satellites, not me--I don't want to take > his credit! > > Well, your descriptive mineralogy question is a complicated one. > Certainly, > when someone publishes a detailed article about an important locality, > such > as in Min. Record or Rocks & Minerals or in some monograph they've > written, > they do document this kind of information, but it just takes a longer > article to do so. Right, just a simple list of mineral species can't do > the > job. But many of the recent "mineral locality index" articles that have > appeared in R&M, have included this kind of extra info about what the > minerals look like and what kinds of habits/associations are present at a > locality, often in the form of photos included with the article; rather > than > the article just being a concise list of localities & species. > > Perhaps "mindat" could be a place for posting this kind of information? > Right now there only seems to be provision for posting photographs there > of > minerals from a given locality, not descriptions of the mineral as it > occurs > at each site. Is this something that can (or already is?) be readily > added, > to the bare bones list of minerals present? It could, of course, be > incorporated into the caption information in each photograph--say, if > there > was an image documenting each notable different habit of the mineral that > occurs at the locality. Any comments from some of our mindat experts? > > Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rock Currier" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 3:45 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS data and descriptive mineralogy > > >> Pete >> Thanks for the great way you put in perspective the claims of GPS > units >> that claim to be able to handle the data from many GPS satellites. >> Information is useful, but information put in correct perspective is > really >> much more valuable. >> >> I have had a bone to pick with descriptive mineralogy for years in that >> it >> is full of information about minerals but very little effort is ever made > to >> put that information into perspective. Lists of minerals found at > localities >> has always been a pet peeve. These lists provide information, but there >> is >> often little effort to put it into perspective. A locality produces >> pyrite >> and calcite. Who cares. What we want to know is what kind of calcite and >> pyrite are produced. What do they look like and how do they compare to >> pyrite and calcite from other localities? We spend all our lives as >> collectors, dealers and curators learning about stuff like that, but once > we >> learn about it this information is rarely written down. Ultimately we >> want >> to know: How good does the pyrite and calcite get from this locality? How >> much of it was collected and when? When these questions are answered the >> calcite and pyrite from a particular locality are put in perspective. >> Ultimately they will help answer the fundamental question that all of us >> want to know the answer to. Can I get one? >> Rock >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Tue Dec 28 19:43:57 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Tue Dec 28 19:43:54 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Most powerful earthquake ever References: Message-ID: <00dc01c4ed58$a0c0ee80$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> There was a fellow in Louisville (a dentist, perhaps), who created a device to record earthquakes after one of the last big ones in New Madrid (1812 I believe). That was its only purpose. He noted some 600 aftershocks with his primitive instrument. It was not a recording device and I don't remember the details of how it worked. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 8:38 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Most powerful earthquake ever > Seismographs weren't invented until the last half of the 1800's. Early > seismoscopes were in use for the New Madrid quakes but weren't calibrated > and of course left no record. So the Chile event in 1960 would have to be > the greatest recorded quake. Without a doubt there have been much larger > events in the past. > > Bryan > > > -------Original Message----- > -- > --Hi everyone, > -- > --As an aside from the catastrophe in the Indian Ocean, I am > --curious what > --might be the most powerful earthquake (or quakes) ever recorded, and > --how much damage, loss of life, and change of topography occurred in > --consequence of it or them. > -- > --Cheers > --Hans Durstling > --Moncton, Canada > -- > --_______________________________________________ > --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > --Subscription Services: > --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > -- > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Dec 28 20:32:03 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Dec 28 20:31:11 2004 Subject: OT: Software {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Sri Lanka & Arthur C Clarke} References: <41D1C9C3.8020202@cox.net> <6.1.2.0.0.20041228122025.044aa8c0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <41D23309.77F3@Tomaszewski.net> Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > I thought several members of our List would appreciate that humor. I'm > waiting for someone to comment on "software"...but then again, maybe we'd > better not go there! Kitty, I distinguish between hardware, software, and wetware (aka, living brains and their various receptors); wetware is still winning. Kreigh P.S., Arthur is OK. Most of his scuba operation is gone. He is still looking for some of his staff (as of this morning when I found his website). From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Tue Dec 28 21:00:35 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Tue Dec 28 21:01:28 2004 Subject: Software {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Sri Lanka & Arthur C Clarke} In-Reply-To: <41D23309.77F3@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <200412290501.iBT51QAI029893@bubbleator.drizzle.com> All rightee! Someone else who uses "wetware"! I used that at a meeting out in NJ a couple of months ago. They looked at me funny. OK No smart comments to that last sentence, eh? GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Kreigh Tomaszewski > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 10:32 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: OT: Software {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Sri Lanka & > Arthur C Clarke} > > Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > I thought several members of our List would appreciate that humor. > > I'm waiting for someone to comment on "software"...but then again, > > maybe we'd better not go there! > > Kitty, > > I distinguish between hardware, software, and wetware (aka, > living brains and their various receptors); wetware is still winning. > > Kreigh > > P.S., Arthur is OK. Most of his scuba operation is gone. He > is still looking for some of his staff (as of this morning > when I found his website). > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From jpjunk at mc.net Tue Dec 28 21:34:36 2004 From: jpjunk at mc.net (jjunkroski) Date: Tue Dec 28 21:33:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake In-Reply-To: <00f401c4ed0f$f46700e0$7c8ca842@dit03r92qai5fx> Message-ID: Dear Brenda, Your incredulity at the horrific loss of life is understandable, and commendable. Clearly you are a person of great sympathy and caring, but you seem not to understand what conditions are like in many of the areas affected, and indeed in most of the world. No, there are NOT US Embassies everywhere, perhaps one in each capital city, sometimes thousands of miles from the sleepy fishing villages that were devastated. Even if our people told their people within minutes, many of those countries do NOT have internal communication systems that could get a message to each of their coastal settlements in any reasonable time. Some of those villages HAVE no communications systems. Some of those villages have no water supplies or electricity or medical care or sewage treatment or schools. Yes, WE, the privileged tiny percent who live in North America or western Europe have warnings on everything. THEY, the five billion humans outside our cozy little illusion seldom have even the comfort of a roof or a toilet, much less access to a television or cell phone. Some of the land areas nearest the epicenter have had on-going political/military unrest for decades, even generations. Large numbers of armed men of various political/religious orientations are murdering, burning, raping and pillaging at will, some of them may actually be in the pay of their governments. It is highly doubtful that those governments have much interest in the welfare of poor fisher-folk in their grass huts. There is no doubt in my mind that the conscious, deliberate acts of humans have caused many times the deaths of this single disaster. Have we done anything to stop that? We are certainly not getting the reality from Good Morning America. I was sadenned but not surprised at the emphasis on the poor, poor western tourists who lost their luggage. Horrors! They'll have to buy new t-shirts! What about the tens of thousands of local folks who lost loved-ones and, perhaps worse yet, have lost the wherewithal to feed and shelter themselves and their surviving families? I hope this doesn't sound unfeeling, but we need to get a handle on the reality that WE are incredibly rich and privileged and most of the rest of the world is just barely hanging on. Often, as in this case, they are not even surviving. We all share the pain and suffering of those people... but unless we educate ourselves about their situation and actively work to improve it our sympathy is hollow. John Junkroski > But what I am getting at is that people in Washington saw the movement on > their seismic readers (whatever they are called) > immediately after it happened.....right???? > > How could those people not put out a warning to SOMEONE......ANYONE - there is > an American Embassy everywhere, right??? I don't > know.....it just seems that some word could have gotten around to alleviate > some of the major loss of life. > From magnet at crocoite.com Tue Dec 28 22:27:14 2004 From: magnet at crocoite.com (magnet) Date: Tue Dec 28 22:26:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] descriptive mineralogy Message-ID: <20041229062714.2030.qmail@webmachine101.com> Hi Alan You can now search Mindat for a photo of a mineral by providing mineral name and location. See http://www.mindat.org/searchmenu.php Regards Steve -------Original Message------- > From: Alan Goldstein > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] descriptive mineralogy > Mindat should be organized as a database where one could type in "calcite" + > "Elmwood" in a seach field and only those photos (or that data) would come > up. From what I can figure, they are not there yet. But I plug away adding > photos of minerals and localities as time allows. For example, check out the > Corydon Quarry, Hasties Quarry or Beryl Pit to see what I have done. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 28 22:40:23 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Tue Dec 28 22:32:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Jack's green rock = quartzite References: <200412280202.iBS22HNC032069@bubbleator.drizzle.com><006401c4ecca$492580c0$97f7a5d8@rock5><001e01c4ecf5$04f193a0$49a4490c@pete> <002901c4ed00$52dd6340$c85f70d1@S0033035959> Message-ID: <003001c4ed71$52843560$a7a3490c@pete> Hi Jack, Folks on this List may remember Jack's attractive-colored green rocks found in soil in his garden, and which he wondered might be amazonite or ______? Jack posted a picture of some of the stones he polished from them, back in November, at http://schmidling.com/az2.jpg Well, Jack, I did stop at my office this afternoon and used my microscope to check out your samples. In a word, they are quartz, definitely not amazonite or any other kind of feldspar. I chipped off and crushed up a big from the paler green, sawn piece that you sent. The polarizing microscope shows that it is made of quartz; not part of a single crystal, but rather it has the appearance of a metamorphic rock, composed of many, small, intergrown quartz grains, with a lot of specks of dark material (probably tiny grains of mica, that give it the green color) sandwiched in between. >From its texture, I would call this rock a quartzite; more specifically, a slightly micaceous, green quartzite. Just to confirm this (and to do some kind of a confirming test on the polished piece you sent too, rather than smash it to break any chips off), I also measured the specific gravity of the two pieces. I see from your past email that you also said you measured the S.G. of one of the stones and got 2.66, which matches quartz (ideally 2.65). I measured the S.G. of each of the two pieces (on a Cent-o-Gram balance I have at home, on which I can measure the weight while the stone is suspended in water from a thin metal wire). I got 2.65 and 2.63 for the two pieces, which is close enough to quartz to consider it matching that (the error is probably about +/- 0.02). Feldspar (orthoclase or microcline) should have a S.G. of about 2.54-2.57 . So, that's what the material is. I'm not sure what the best, simple, one-word name for it might be (if there is an appropriate one-word term). You can call it quartz, or quartzite, or micaceous quartzite. (The term "aventurine" means, according to one mineralogy book, "quartz including brilliant scales of hematite or mica". Material called aventurine usually has a sparkly appearance--the "brilliant scales", but your stones really don't show that much sparkliness, so that may not be the best name for it.) best regards, Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Schmidling" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Amazonite > From: "Peter J. Modreski" > > Not sure if we have an email problem but I am curious if you have learned > anything about the "Amazonite" sample I sent. > > Sorry for being a pest but I would really like to put this to rest. > > Thanks, > > js > > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From lanny at lrream.com Tue Dec 28 22:36:24 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Tue Dec 28 22:34:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS question In-Reply-To: <8D489092-5938-11D9-A970-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> References: <20041227194400.18216.qmail@web51004.mail.yahoo.com> <8D489092-5938-11D9-A970-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> Message-ID: It's simply that the mapping GPS units have a lot of memory with software designed to store and display maps, the others don't have that capability. The amount of memory and thus amount of map data that can be stored varies. Some only have gray scale screens some have color. The type and quality of maps available is also quite variable. Go to Garmin's website and look at the units they sell and the mapping software they recommend for more info. Lanny On Dec 28, 2004, at 5:25 PM, John Joldersma wrote: >> Thanks to everybody who helped with the GPS question. I am almost >> ready to talk to a salesman. I have another question. What is the >> practical difference between mapping and non mapping handheld GPS >> units? John J > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rik.dillen at skynet.be Wed Dec 29 03:35:30 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Wed Dec 29 03:36:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200412291135.iBTBZV8G020004@outmx009.isp.belgacom.be> Amen. John, you said exactly what I was thinking too. Too much emphasis on "poor" tourists (being a tourist is not a crime though, I'm every year at least once one of them ;>) and not enough understanding of the local situations. It is very easy to judge on guilt questions from our cosy chair in front of our plasma television set, but in places where there is only little infrastructure at all it is veeeery difficult to reach people quickly. Two years ago we experienced that in practice when we travelled during 3 weeks through Namibia. At the end of the trip we wouldn't have known if Osama would have taken over the government of Belgium in the meantime, or if Mars people would have landed on earth. We wouldn't even have known about the existence of planetoid # 15513. Anyway, I'm feeling sad for all those people that lost friends and/or family members. But remember, life goes on. Greetings, Rik Dillen -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of jjunkroski Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 6:35 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake Dear Brenda, Your incredulity at the horrific loss of life is understandable, and commendable. Clearly you are a person of great sympathy and caring, but you seem not to understand what conditions are like in many of the areas affected, and indeed in most of the world. No, there are NOT US Embassies everywhere, perhaps one in each capital city, sometimes thousands of miles from the sleepy fishing villages that were devastated. Even if our people told their people within minutes, many of those countries do NOT have internal communication systems that could get a message to each of their coastal settlements in any reasonable time. Some of those villages HAVE no communications systems. Some of those villages have no water supplies or electricity or medical care or sewage treatment or schools. Yes, WE, the privileged tiny percent who live in North America or western Europe have warnings on everything. THEY, the five billion humans outside our cozy little illusion seldom have even the comfort of a roof or a toilet, much less access to a television or cell phone. Some of the land areas nearest the epicenter have had on-going political/military unrest for decades, even generations. Large numbers of armed men of various political/religious orientations are murdering, burning, raping and pillaging at will, some of them may actually be in the pay of their governments. It is highly doubtful that those governments have much interest in the welfare of poor fisher-folk in their grass huts. There is no doubt in my mind that the conscious, deliberate acts of humans have caused many times the deaths of this single disaster. Have we done anything to stop that? We are certainly not getting the reality from Good Morning America. I was sadenned but not surprised at the emphasis on the poor, poor western tourists who lost their luggage. Horrors! They'll have to buy new t-shirts! What about the tens of thousands of local folks who lost loved-ones and, perhaps worse yet, have lost the wherewithal to feed and shelter themselves and their surviving families? I hope this doesn't sound unfeeling, but we need to get a handle on the reality that WE are incredibly rich and privileged and most of the rest of the world is just barely hanging on. Often, as in this case, they are not even surviving. We all share the pain and suffering of those people... but unless we educate ourselves about their situation and actively work to improve it our sympathy is hollow. John Junkroski > But what I am getting at is that people in Washington saw the movement on > their seismic readers (whatever they are called) > immediately after it happened.....right???? > > How could those people not put out a warning to SOMEONE......ANYONE - there is > an American Embassy everywhere, right??? I don't > know.....it just seems that some word could have gotten around to alleviate > some of the major loss of life. > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From corndogs at charter.net Wed Dec 29 05:53:40 2004 From: corndogs at charter.net (Brenda LaCroix) Date: Wed Dec 29 05:54:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Minedat References: <200412280202.iBS22HNC032069@bubbleator.drizzle.com><006401c4ecca$492580c0$97f7a5d8@rock5><001e01c4ecf5$04f193a0$49a4490c@pete> <00b701c4ed56$dc263b80$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <003a01c4edad$f24a0980$4e887644@dit03r92qai5fx> REALLY?!?!?! We can add our OWN PICTURES to Minedat?!?!?! I have my 10+ pound ruby specimen from Mysore that I think should be on there :-) Have you guys seen pictures of My Giant?!?! http://photos.yahoo.com/corndogs1969 In the album, "A Giant of a Ruby" hehehehe!! I am really looking forward to hearing some opinions about My Giant!!! Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, NE CornDogs@Charter.net Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Goldstein" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] descriptive mineralogy I've written the Kentucky Mineral Locality Index. (It is in its final editing stage.) For all practical purposes, it is a list of minerals with collectible species in italics (collectible = usually crystallized). I wish I could add descriptive detail, but the result would be too large to fit in a magazine. Some of the mines in the western and central KY fluorspar districts are not known for mineral specimens because they were mined long ago (1811 - late 1800's) and there was little or no collecting during the short period they operated. In some cases where specimens were preserved, no detailed information was recorded. But there are plenty of other localities where this information is still available! I have turned to mindat to fill the void, but it has limitations. As Pete pointed out, the locality page has a field for adding mineral names, but no place for descriptions like "golden brown scalenohedrons to 50 cm." I've put that kind of information with the mineral photos I've added, but there are obvious limitations, i.e., having to look through all of the photos from a particular locality. At this time, that isn't a major issue, because most localities (at least those that I have looked at) have small numbers of mineral photos posted. (The largest number I have found in my limited searches are with the Minerva No. 1 mine.) Assuming that mindat doesn't disappear due to a computer hacker, web host problems, etc., eventually all collectible sites should be documented with lots of photos! Imagine if all the Franklin mineral species were illustrated, or minerals/crystal habits/associations from the Annabel Lee mine or the National Belle mine! Mindat should be organized as a database where one could type in "calcite" + "Elmwood" in a seach field and only those photos (or that data) would come up. From what I can figure, they are not there yet. But I plug away adding photos of minerals and localities as time allows. For example, check out the Corydon Quarry, Hasties Quarry or Beryl Pit to see what I have done. Personally, I'd like to see anyone on this list submit photos of minerals and localities. This is a group from across the globe. All you need is a digital camera or a scanner. (Or know someone with one...) Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 10:50 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] GPS data and descriptive mineralogy > Hi Rock, > > Actually, I think it was Lanny who gave the info about GPS receivers not > really being able to use so many satellites, not me--I don't want to take > his credit! > > Well, your descriptive mineralogy question is a complicated one. > Certainly, > when someone publishes a detailed article about an important locality, > such > as in Min. Record or Rocks & Minerals or in some monograph they've > written, > they do document this kind of information, but it just takes a longer > article to do so. Right, just a simple list of mineral species can't do > the > job. But many of the recent "mineral locality index" articles that have > appeared in R&M, have included this kind of extra info about what the > minerals look like and what kinds of habits/associations are present at a > locality, often in the form of photos included with the article; rather > than > the article just being a concise list of localities & species. > > Perhaps "mindat" could be a place for posting this kind of information? > Right now there only seems to be provision for posting photographs there > of > minerals from a given locality, not descriptions of the mineral as it > occurs > at each site. Is this something that can (or already is?) be readily > added, > to the bare bones list of minerals present? It could, of course, be > incorporated into the caption information in each photograph--say, if > there > was an image documenting each notable different habit of the mineral that > occurs at the locality. Any comments from some of our mindat experts? > > Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rock Currier" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 3:45 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS data and descriptive mineralogy > > >> Pete >> Thanks for the great way you put in perspective the claims of GPS > units >> that claim to be able to handle the data from many GPS satellites. >> Information is useful, but information put in correct perspective is > really >> much more valuable. >> >> I have had a bone to pick with descriptive mineralogy for years in that >> it >> is full of information about minerals but very little effort is ever made > to >> put that information into perspective. Lists of minerals found at > localities >> has always been a pet peeve. These lists provide information, but there >> is >> often little effort to put it into perspective. A locality produces >> pyrite >> and calcite. Who cares. What we want to know is what kind of calcite and >> pyrite are produced. What do they look like and how do they compare to >> pyrite and calcite from other localities? We spend all our lives as >> collectors, dealers and curators learning about stuff like that, but once > we >> learn about it this information is rarely written down. Ultimately we >> want >> to know: How good does the pyrite and calcite get from this locality? How >> much of it was collected and when? When these questions are answered the >> calcite and pyrite from a particular locality are put in perspective. >> Ultimately they will help answer the fundamental question that all of us >> want to know the answer to. Can I get one? >> Rock >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 29 07:02:27 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Wed Dec 29 06:53:25 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Mindat References: <200412280202.iBS22HNC032069@bubbleator.drizzle.com><006401c4ecca$492580c0$97f7a5d8@rock5><001e01c4ecf5$04f193a0$49a4490c@pete><00b701c4ed56$dc263b80$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> <003a01c4edad$f24a0980$4e887644@dit03r92qai5fx> Message-ID: <000d01c4edb7$6a6ddf00$b6a5490c@pete> I looked--wow, Brenda, you have all kinds of photos of nice rubies and emeralds there, but there's neither an album nor a photo titled "A Giant of A Ruby". There are 9 albums shown, but none have that title. Am I missing something? (P.S., I guess the rest of your photo web site is going to the dogs, Brenda!) cheers, Pete Cheers ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda LaCroix" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 6:53 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Minedat > REALLY?!?!?! We can add our OWN PICTURES to Minedat?!?!?! > > I have my 10+ pound ruby specimen from Mysore that I think should be on there :-) Have you guys seen pictures of My Giant?!?! > http://photos.yahoo.com/corndogs1969 In the album, "A Giant of a Ruby" hehehehe!! > > I am really looking forward to hearing some opinions about My Giant!!! > Brenda > > > Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan > Assisting Boston Terriers > Kearney, NE > CornDogs@Charter.net > Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers > To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! > Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is > merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alan Goldstein" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:31 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] descriptive mineralogy > > > I've written the Kentucky Mineral Locality Index. (It is in its final > editing stage.) For all practical purposes, it is a list of minerals with > collectible species in italics (collectible = usually crystallized). I wish > I could add descriptive detail, but the result would be too large to fit in > a magazine. Some of the mines in the western and central KY fluorspar > districts are not known for mineral specimens because they were mined long > ago (1811 - late 1800's) and there was little or no collecting during the > short period they operated. In some cases where specimens were preserved, no > detailed information was recorded. But there are plenty of other localities > where this information is still available! > > I have turned to mindat to fill the void, but it has limitations. As Pete > pointed out, the locality page has a field for adding mineral names, but no > place for descriptions like "golden brown scalenohedrons to 50 cm." I've put > that kind of information with the mineral photos I've added, but there are > obvious limitations, i.e., having to look through all of the photos from a > particular locality. At this time, that isn't a major issue, because most > localities (at least those that I have looked at) have small numbers of > mineral photos posted. (The largest number I have found in my limited > searches are with the Minerva No. 1 mine.) Assuming that mindat doesn't > disappear due to a computer hacker, web host problems, etc., eventually all > collectible sites should be documented with lots of photos! Imagine if all > the Franklin mineral species were illustrated, or minerals/crystal > habits/associations from the Annabel Lee mine or the National Belle mine! > > Mindat should be organized as a database where one could type in "calcite" + > "Elmwood" in a seach field and only those photos (or that data) would come > up. From what I can figure, they are not there yet. But I plug away adding > photos of minerals and localities as time allows. For example, check out the > Corydon Quarry, Hasties Quarry or Beryl Pit to see what I have done. > > Personally, I'd like to see anyone on this list submit photos of minerals > and localities. This is a group from across the globe. All you need is a > digital camera or a scanner. (Or know someone with one...) > > Alan > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter J. Modreski" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 10:50 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] GPS data and descriptive mineralogy > > > > Hi Rock, > > > > Actually, I think it was Lanny who gave the info about GPS receivers not > > really being able to use so many satellites, not me--I don't want to take > > his credit! > > > > Well, your descriptive mineralogy question is a complicated one. > > Certainly, > > when someone publishes a detailed article about an important locality, > > such > > as in Min. Record or Rocks & Minerals or in some monograph they've > > written, > > they do document this kind of information, but it just takes a longer > > article to do so. Right, just a simple list of mineral species can't do > > the > > job. But many of the recent "mineral locality index" articles that have > > appeared in R&M, have included this kind of extra info about what the > > minerals look like and what kinds of habits/associations are present at a > > locality, often in the form of photos included with the article; rather > > than > > the article just being a concise list of localities & species. > > > > Perhaps "mindat" could be a place for posting this kind of information? > > Right now there only seems to be provision for posting photographs there > > of > > minerals from a given locality, not descriptions of the mineral as it > > occurs > > at each site. Is this something that can (or already is?) be readily > > added, > > to the bare bones list of minerals present? It could, of course, be > > incorporated into the caption information in each photograph--say, if > > there > > was an image documenting each notable different habit of the mineral that > > occurs at the locality. Any comments from some of our mindat experts? > > > > Pete > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Rock Currier" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 3:45 AM > > Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS data and descriptive mineralogy > > > > > >> Pete > >> Thanks for the great way you put in perspective the claims of GPS > > units > >> that claim to be able to handle the data from many GPS satellites. > >> Information is useful, but information put in correct perspective is > > really > >> much more valuable. > >> > >> I have had a bone to pick with descriptive mineralogy for years in that > >> it > >> is full of information about minerals but very little effort is ever made > > to > >> put that information into perspective. Lists of minerals found at > > localities > >> has always been a pet peeve. These lists provide information, but there > >> is > >> often little effort to put it into perspective. A locality produces > >> pyrite > >> and calcite. Who cares. What we want to know is what kind of calcite and > >> pyrite are produced. What do they look like and how do they compare to > >> pyrite and calcite from other localities? We spend all our lives as > >> collectors, dealers and curators learning about stuff like that, but once > > we > >> learn about it this information is rarely written down. Ultimately we > >> want > >> to know: How good does the pyrite and calcite get from this locality? How > >> much of it was collected and when? When these questions are answered the > >> calcite and pyrite from a particular locality are put in perspective. > >> Ultimately they will help answer the fundamental question that all of us > >> want to know the answer to. Can I get one? > >> Rock > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From corndogs at charter.net Wed Dec 29 06:57:32 2004 From: corndogs at charter.net (Brenda LaCroix) Date: Wed Dec 29 06:57:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Mindat - PETE References: <200412280202.iBS22HNC032069@bubbleator.drizzle.com><006401c4ecca$492580c0$97f7a5d8@rock5><001e01c4ecf5$04f193a0$49a4490c@pete><00b701c4ed56$dc263b80$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose><003a01c4edad$f24a0980$4e887644@dit03r92qai5fx> <000d01c4edb7$6a6ddf00$b6a5490c@pete> Message-ID: <007c01c4edb6$ba343170$4e887644@dit03r92qai5fx> OOPS - Thanks, Pete...forgot to make it a public album :-) It is there now.....and thank you for the compliments on my other pics. Yes, rocks and dogs are my life passions.....so there are probably more Dog Albums than Rock Albums...LOL!! What about adding our own pics though....and do you think I should add the pictures of My Giant?!?! (Once you see Him of course...hehehe!!) Bren Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan ssisting Boston Terriers Kearney, NE CornDogs@Charter.net Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Mindat I looked--wow, Brenda, you have all kinds of photos of nice rubies and emeralds there, but there's neither an album nor a photo titled "A Giant of A Ruby". There are 9 albums shown, but none have that title. Am I missing something? (P.S., I guess the rest of your photo web site is going to the dogs, Brenda!) cheers, Pete Cheers ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda LaCroix" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 6:53 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Minedat > REALLY?!?!?! We can add our OWN PICTURES to Minedat?!?!?! > > I have my 10+ pound ruby specimen from Mysore that I think should be on there :-) Have you guys seen pictures of My Giant?!?! > http://photos.yahoo.com/corndogs1969 In the album, "A Giant of a Ruby" hehehehe!! > > I am really looking forward to hearing some opinions about My Giant!!! > Brenda > > > Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan > Assisting Boston Terriers > Kearney, NE > CornDogs@Charter.net > Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers > To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! > Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is > merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alan Goldstein" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:31 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] descriptive mineralogy > > > I've written the Kentucky Mineral Locality Index. (It is in its final > editing stage.) For all practical purposes, it is a list of minerals with > collectible species in italics (collectible = usually crystallized). I wish > I could add descriptive detail, but the result would be too large to fit in > a magazine. Some of the mines in the western and central KY fluorspar > districts are not known for mineral specimens because they were mined long > ago (1811 - late 1800's) and there was little or no collecting during the > short period they operated. In some cases where specimens were preserved, no > detailed information was recorded. But there are plenty of other localities > where this information is still available! > > I have turned to mindat to fill the void, but it has limitations. As Pete > pointed out, the locality page has a field for adding mineral names, but no > place for descriptions like "golden brown scalenohedrons to 50 cm." I've put > that kind of information with the mineral photos I've added, but there are > obvious limitations, i.e., having to look through all of the photos from a > particular locality. At this time, that isn't a major issue, because most > localities (at least those that I have looked at) have small numbers of > mineral photos posted. (The largest number I have found in my limited > searches are with the Minerva No. 1 mine.) Assuming that mindat doesn't > disappear due to a computer hacker, web host problems, etc., eventually all > collectible sites should be documented with lots of photos! Imagine if all > the Franklin mineral species were illustrated, or minerals/crystal > habits/associations from the Annabel Lee mine or the National Belle mine! > > Mindat should be organized as a database where one could type in "calcite" + > "Elmwood" in a seach field and only those photos (or that data) would come > up. From what I can figure, they are not there yet. But I plug away adding > photos of minerals and localities as time allows. For example, check out the > Corydon Quarry, Hasties Quarry or Beryl Pit to see what I have done. > > Personally, I'd like to see anyone on this list submit photos of minerals > and localities. This is a group from across the globe. All you need is a > digital camera or a scanner. (Or know someone with one...) > > Alan > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter J. Modreski" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 10:50 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] GPS data and descriptive mineralogy > > > > Hi Rock, > > > > Actually, I think it was Lanny who gave the info about GPS receivers not > > really being able to use so many satellites, not me--I don't want to take > > his credit! > > > > Well, your descriptive mineralogy question is a complicated one. > > Certainly, > > when someone publishes a detailed article about an important locality, > > such > > as in Min. Record or Rocks & Minerals or in some monograph they've > > written, > > they do document this kind of information, but it just takes a longer > > article to do so. Right, just a simple list of mineral species can't do > > the > > job. But many of the recent "mineral locality index" articles that have > > appeared in R&M, have included this kind of extra info about what the > > minerals look like and what kinds of habits/associations are present at a > > locality, often in the form of photos included with the article; rather > > than > > the article just being a concise list of localities & species. > > > > Perhaps "mindat" could be a place for posting this kind of information? > > Right now there only seems to be provision for posting photographs there > > of > > minerals from a given locality, not descriptions of the mineral as it > > occurs > > at each site. Is this something that can (or already is?) be readily > > added, > > to the bare bones list of minerals present? It could, of course, be > > incorporated into the caption information in each photograph--say, if > > there > > was an image documenting each notable different habit of the mineral that > > occurs at the locality. Any comments from some of our mindat experts? > > > > Pete > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Rock Currier" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 3:45 AM > > Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS data and descriptive mineralogy > > > > > >> Pete > >> Thanks for the great way you put in perspective the claims of GPS > > units > >> that claim to be able to handle the data from many GPS satellites. > >> Information is useful, but information put in correct perspective is > > really > >> much more valuable. > >> > >> I have had a bone to pick with descriptive mineralogy for years in that > >> it > >> is full of information about minerals but very little effort is ever made > > to > >> put that information into perspective. Lists of minerals found at > > localities > >> has always been a pet peeve. These lists provide information, but there > >> is > >> often little effort to put it into perspective. A locality produces > >> pyrite > >> and calcite. Who cares. What we want to know is what kind of calcite and > >> pyrite are produced. What do they look like and how do they compare to > >> pyrite and calcite from other localities? We spend all our lives as > >> collectors, dealers and curators learning about stuff like that, but once > > we > >> learn about it this information is rarely written down. Ultimately we > >> want > >> to know: How good does the pyrite and calcite get from this locality? How > >> much of it was collected and when? When these questions are answered the > >> calcite and pyrite from a particular locality are put in perspective. > >> Ultimately they will help answer the fundamental question that all of us > >> want to know the answer to. Can I get one? > >> Rock > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 29 07:19:46 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Wed Dec 29 07:10:42 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Mindat - PETE References: <200412280202.iBS22HNC032069@bubbleator.drizzle.com><006401c4ecca$492580c0$97f7a5d8@rock5><001e01c4ecf5$04f193a0$49a4490c@pete><00b701c4ed56$dc263b80$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose><003a01c4edad$f24a0980$4e887644@dit03r92qai5fx><000d01c4edb7$6a6ddf00$b6a5490c@pete> <007c01c4edb6$ba343170$4e887644@dit03r92qai5fx> Message-ID: <001c01c4edb9$d5aaf4e0$b6a5490c@pete> OK, thanks for posting it! Yes, that's a nice crystal. I do love the rich, red, distinctive color of uncut ruby. I like your closest-up photo best, #5678, but it cut off the top of the poor crystal. The ones of the whole crystal sitting on the seat of the chair are good, too. And sure, it's worth adding to mindat for the Mysore locality. (Not that the dealers in Indian ruby probably don't have bigger ones.) best regards, Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda LaCroix" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 7:57 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Mindat - PETE > OOPS - Thanks, Pete...forgot to make it a public album :-) It is there now.....and thank you for the compliments on my other pics. > Yes, rocks and dogs are my life passions.....so there are probably more Dog Albums than Rock Albums...LOL!! > > What about adding our own pics though....and do you think I should add the pictures of My Giant?!?! (Once you see Him of > course...hehehe!!) > Bren > > Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan ssisting Boston Terriers Kearney, NE > CornDogs@Charter.net > Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers > To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! > Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is > merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter J. Modreski" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 9:02 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Mindat > > > I looked--wow, Brenda, you have all kinds of photos of nice rubies and > emeralds there, but there's neither an album nor a photo titled "A Giant of > A Ruby". There are 9 albums shown, but none have that title. Am I missing > something? > > (P.S., I guess the rest of your photo web site is going to the dogs, > Brenda!) > > cheers, Pete > Cheers > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brenda LaCroix" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 6:53 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Minedat > > > > REALLY?!?!?! We can add our OWN PICTURES to Minedat?!?!?! > > > > I have my 10+ pound ruby specimen from Mysore that I think should be on > there :-) Have you guys seen pictures of My Giant?!?! > > http://photos.yahoo.com/corndogs1969 In the album, "A Giant of a Ruby" > hehehehe!! > > > > I am really looking forward to hearing some opinions about My Giant!!! > > Brenda > > > > > > Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan > > Assisting Boston Terriers > > Kearney, NE > > CornDogs@Charter.net > > Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston > Terriers > > To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! > > Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your > character is what you really are, while your reputation is > > merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Alan Goldstein" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:31 PM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] descriptive mineralogy > > > > > > I've written the Kentucky Mineral Locality Index. (It is in its final > > editing stage.) For all practical purposes, it is a list of minerals with > > collectible species in italics (collectible = usually crystallized). I > wish > > I could add descriptive detail, but the result would be too large to fit > in > > a magazine. Some of the mines in the western and central KY fluorspar > > districts are not known for mineral specimens because they were mined long > > ago (1811 - late 1800's) and there was little or no collecting during the > > short period they operated. In some cases where specimens were preserved, > no > > detailed information was recorded. But there are plenty of other > localities > > where this information is still available! > > > > I have turned to mindat to fill the void, but it has limitations. As Pete > > pointed out, the locality page has a field for adding mineral names, but > no > > place for descriptions like "golden brown scalenohedrons to 50 cm." I've > put > > that kind of information with the mineral photos I've added, but there are > > obvious limitations, i.e., having to look through all of the photos from a > > particular locality. At this time, that isn't a major issue, because most > > localities (at least those that I have looked at) have small numbers of > > mineral photos posted. (The largest number I have found in my limited > > searches are with the Minerva No. 1 mine.) Assuming that mindat doesn't > > disappear due to a computer hacker, web host problems, etc., eventually > all > > collectible sites should be documented with lots of photos! Imagine if all > > the Franklin mineral species were illustrated, or minerals/crystal > > habits/associations from the Annabel Lee mine or the National Belle mine! > > > > Mindat should be organized as a database where one could type in "calcite" > + > > "Elmwood" in a seach field and only those photos (or that data) would come > > up. From what I can figure, they are not there yet. But I plug away adding > > photos of minerals and localities as time allows. For example, check out > the > > Corydon Quarry, Hasties Quarry or Beryl Pit to see what I have done. > > > > Personally, I'd like to see anyone on this list submit photos of minerals > > and localities. This is a group from across the globe. All you need is a > > digital camera or a scanner. (Or know someone with one...) > > > > Alan > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Peter J. Modreski" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 10:50 AM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] GPS data and descriptive mineralogy > > > > > > > Hi Rock, > > > > > > Actually, I think it was Lanny who gave the info about GPS receivers not > > > really being able to use so many satellites, not me--I don't want to > take > > > his credit! > > > > > > Well, your descriptive mineralogy question is a complicated one. > > > Certainly, > > > when someone publishes a detailed article about an important locality, > > > such > > > as in Min. Record or Rocks & Minerals or in some monograph they've > > > written, > > > they do document this kind of information, but it just takes a longer > > > article to do so. Right, just a simple list of mineral species can't do > > > the > > > job. But many of the recent "mineral locality index" articles that have > > > appeared in R&M, have included this kind of extra info about what the > > > minerals look like and what kinds of habits/associations are present at > a > > > locality, often in the form of photos included with the article; rather > > > than > > > the article just being a concise list of localities & species. > > > > > > Perhaps "mindat" could be a place for posting this kind of information? > > > Right now there only seems to be provision for posting photographs there > > > of > > > minerals from a given locality, not descriptions of the mineral as it > > > occurs > > > at each site. Is this something that can (or already is?) be readily > > > added, > > > to the bare bones list of minerals present? It could, of course, be > > > incorporated into the caption information in each photograph--say, if > > > there > > > was an image documenting each notable different habit of the mineral > that > > > occurs at the locality. Any comments from some of our mindat experts? > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Rock Currier" > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 3:45 AM > > > Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS data and descriptive mineralogy > > > > > > > > >> Pete > > >> Thanks for the great way you put in perspective the claims of GPS > > > units > > >> that claim to be able to handle the data from many GPS satellites. > > >> Information is useful, but information put in correct perspective is > > > really > > >> much more valuable. > > >> > > >> I have had a bone to pick with descriptive mineralogy for years in that > > >> it > > >> is full of information about minerals but very little effort is ever > made > > > to > > >> put that information into perspective. Lists of minerals found at > > > localities > > >> has always been a pet peeve. These lists provide information, but there > > >> is > > >> often little effort to put it into perspective. A locality produces > > >> pyrite > > >> and calcite. Who cares. What we want to know is what kind of calcite > and > > >> pyrite are produced. What do they look like and how do they compare to > > >> pyrite and calcite from other localities? We spend all our lives as > > >> collectors, dealers and curators learning about stuff like that, but > once > > > we > > >> learn about it this information is rarely written down. Ultimately we > > >> want > > >> to know: How good does the pyrite and calcite get from this locality? > How > > >> much of it was collected and when? When these questions are answered > the > > >> calcite and pyrite from a particular locality are put in perspective. > > >> Ultimately they will help answer the fundamental question that all of > us > > >> want to know the answer to. Can I get one? > > >> Rock > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > >> Subscription Services: > > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From corndogs at charter.net Wed Dec 29 08:22:57 2004 From: corndogs at charter.net (Brenda LaCroix) Date: Wed Dec 29 08:22:57 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] CORUNDUM (used to be "Mindat and adding pictures - Pete) References: <200412280202.iBS22HNC032069@bubbleator.drizzle.com><006401c4ecca$492580c0$97f7a5d8@rock5><001e01c4ecf5$04f193a0$49a4490c@pete><00b701c4ed56$dc263b80$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose><003a01c4edad$f24a0980$4e887644@dit03r92qai5fx><000d01c4edb7$6a6ddf00$b6a5490c@pete><007c01c4edb6$ba343170$4e887644@dit03r92qai5fx> <001c01c4edb9$d5aaf4e0$b6a5490c@pete> Message-ID: <009a01c4edc2$a891c3e0$4e887644@dit03r92qai5fx> Thanks, Pete....I LOVE MY CORUNDUM - especially rubies!!! I just added another album of my most current pieces, except a couple of new pieces I got this past month - but they aren't anything spectacular :-) >From what I have been told - and I do believe the information as I have done ALOT of research on rubies from Mysore - that My Giant is one of the 4-5 best "monster specimens" found to date....and they aren't finding anymore - at least as of a few months ago. I have looked for other pieces - either in collections or for sale - and the closest I have found was a 5 pound specimen for sale. It has the same coloration and nice formation, but of course, mine is almost twice the size!!!! And I feel I have done some extensive searching....but of course I could be wrong! IF ANYONE HAS DIFFERENT INFORMATION.....would you please share it with me?!?!?! I would really like to know FOR SURE if this is the case. I have shown him to some other people, including a gemstone seller in India - and they are always blown away. THANKS FOR ANY INFORMATION ANYONE MIGHT HAVE FOR ME!!!! Also, if anyone has any corundum pieces in their collections they would like to sell and/or trade....I would be very interested in speaking with you, offlist of course so as to not irritate anyone :-) Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, NE CornDogs@Charter.net Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Mindat - PETE OK, thanks for posting it! Yes, that's a nice crystal. I do love the rich, red, distinctive color of uncut ruby. I like your closest-up photo best, #5678, but it cut off the top of the poor crystal. The ones of the whole crystal sitting on the seat of the chair are good, too. And sure, it's worth adding to mindat for the Mysore locality. (Not that the dealers in Indian ruby probably don't have bigger ones.) best regards, Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda LaCroix" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 7:57 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Mindat - PETE > OOPS - Thanks, Pete...forgot to make it a public album :-) It is there now.....and thank you for the compliments on my other pics. > Yes, rocks and dogs are my life passions.....so there are probably more Dog Albums than Rock Albums...LOL!! > > What about adding our own pics though....and do you think I should add the pictures of My Giant?!?! (Once you see Him of > course...hehehe!!) > Bren > > Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan ssisting Boston Terriers Kearney, NE > CornDogs@Charter.net > Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers > To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! > Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is > merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter J. Modreski" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 9:02 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Mindat > > > I looked--wow, Brenda, you have all kinds of photos of nice rubies and > emeralds there, but there's neither an album nor a photo titled "A Giant of > A Ruby". There are 9 albums shown, but none have that title. Am I missing > something? > > (P.S., I guess the rest of your photo web site is going to the dogs, > Brenda!) > > cheers, Pete > Cheers > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brenda LaCroix" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 6:53 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Minedat > > > > REALLY?!?!?! We can add our OWN PICTURES to Minedat?!?!?! > > > > I have my 10+ pound ruby specimen from Mysore that I think should be on > there :-) Have you guys seen pictures of My Giant?!?! > > http://photos.yahoo.com/corndogs1969 In the album, "A Giant of a Ruby" > hehehehe!! > > > > I am really looking forward to hearing some opinions about My Giant!!! > > Brenda > > > > > > Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan > > Assisting Boston Terriers > > Kearney, NE > > CornDogs@Charter.net > > Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston > Terriers > > To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! > > Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your > character is what you really are, while your reputation is > > merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Alan Goldstein" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:31 PM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] descriptive mineralogy > > > > > > I've written the Kentucky Mineral Locality Index. (It is in its final > > editing stage.) For all practical purposes, it is a list of minerals with > > collectible species in italics (collectible = usually crystallized). I > wish > > I could add descriptive detail, but the result would be too large to fit > in > > a magazine. Some of the mines in the western and central KY fluorspar > > districts are not known for mineral specimens because they were mined long > > ago (1811 - late 1800's) and there was little or no collecting during the > > short period they operated. In some cases where specimens were preserved, > no > > detailed information was recorded. But there are plenty of other > localities > > where this information is still available! > > > > I have turned to mindat to fill the void, but it has limitations. As Pete > > pointed out, the locality page has a field for adding mineral names, but > no > > place for descriptions like "golden brown scalenohedrons to 50 cm." I've > put > > that kind of information with the mineral photos I've added, but there are > > obvious limitations, i.e., having to look through all of the photos from a > > particular locality. At this time, that isn't a major issue, because most > > localities (at least those that I have looked at) have small numbers of > > mineral photos posted. (The largest number I have found in my limited > > searches are with the Minerva No. 1 mine.) Assuming that mindat doesn't > > disappear due to a computer hacker, web host problems, etc., eventually > all > > collectible sites should be documented with lots of photos! Imagine if all > > the Franklin mineral species were illustrated, or minerals/crystal > > habits/associations from the Annabel Lee mine or the National Belle mine! > > > > Mindat should be organized as a database where one could type in "calcite" > + > > "Elmwood" in a seach field and only those photos (or that data) would come > > up. From what I can figure, they are not there yet. But I plug away adding > > photos of minerals and localities as time allows. For example, check out > the > > Corydon Quarry, Hasties Quarry or Beryl Pit to see what I have done. > > > > Personally, I'd like to see anyone on this list submit photos of minerals > > and localities. This is a group from across the globe. All you need is a > > digital camera or a scanner. (Or know someone with one...) > > > > Alan > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Peter J. Modreski" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 10:50 AM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] GPS data and descriptive mineralogy > > > > > > > Hi Rock, > > > > > > Actually, I think it was Lanny who gave the info about GPS receivers not > > > really being able to use so many satellites, not me--I don't want to > take > > > his credit! > > > > > > Well, your descriptive mineralogy question is a complicated one. > > > Certainly, > > > when someone publishes a detailed article about an important locality, > > > such > > > as in Min. Record or Rocks & Minerals or in some monograph they've > > > written, > > > they do document this kind of information, but it just takes a longer > > > article to do so. Right, just a simple list of mineral species can't do > > > the > > > job. But many of the recent "mineral locality index" articles that have > > > appeared in R&M, have included this kind of extra info about what the > > > minerals look like and what kinds of habits/associations are present at > a > > > locality, often in the form of photos included with the article; rather > > > than > > > the article just being a concise list of localities & species. > > > > > > Perhaps "mindat" could be a place for posting this kind of information? > > > Right now there only seems to be provision for posting photographs there > > > of > > > minerals from a given locality, not descriptions of the mineral as it > > > occurs > > > at each site. Is this something that can (or already is?) be readily > > > added, > > > to the bare bones list of minerals present? It could, of course, be > > > incorporated into the caption information in each photograph--say, if > > > there > > > was an image documenting each notable different habit of the mineral > that > > > occurs at the locality. Any comments from some of our mindat experts? > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Rock Currier" > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 3:45 AM > > > Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS data and descriptive mineralogy > > > > > > > > >> Pete > > >> Thanks for the great way you put in perspective the claims of GPS > > > units > > >> that claim to be able to handle the data from many GPS satellites. > > >> Information is useful, but information put in correct perspective is > > > really > > >> much more valuable. > > >> > > >> I have had a bone to pick with descriptive mineralogy for years in that > > >> it > > >> is full of information about minerals but very little effort is ever > made > > > to > > >> put that information into perspective. Lists of minerals found at > > > localities > > >> has always been a pet peeve. These lists provide information, but there > > >> is > > >> often little effort to put it into perspective. A locality produces > > >> pyrite > > >> and calcite. Who cares. What we want to know is what kind of calcite > and > > >> pyrite are produced. What do they look like and how do they compare to > > >> pyrite and calcite from other localities? We spend all our lives as > > >> collectors, dealers and curators learning about stuff like that, but > once > > > we > > >> learn about it this information is rarely written down. Ultimately we > > >> want > > >> to know: How good does the pyrite and calcite get from this locality? > How > > >> much of it was collected and when? When these questions are answered > the > > >> calcite and pyrite from a particular locality are put in perspective. > > >> Ultimately they will help answer the fundamental question that all of > us > > >> want to know the answer to. Can I get one? > > >> Rock > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > >> Subscription Services: > > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 29 09:19:28 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Wed Dec 29 09:10:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] big rubies References: <200412280202.iBS22HNC032069@bubbleator.drizzle.com><006401c4ecca$492580c0$97f7a5d8@rock5><001e01c4ecf5$04f193a0$49a4490c@pete><00b701c4ed56$dc263b80$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose><003a01c4edad$f24a0980$4e887644@dit03r92qai5fx><000d01c4edb7$6a6ddf00$b6a5490c@pete><007c01c4edb6$ba343170$4e887644@dit03r92qai5fx><001c01c4edb9$d5aaf4e0$b6a5490c@pete> <009a01c4edc2$a891c3e0$4e887644@dit03r92qai5fx> Message-ID: <003201c4edca$8eab8a80$b6a5490c@pete> Brenda, You're quite right, I think--about the exceptional size of your ruby crystal. I just did a quick search on the internet, and the biggest ruby crystal I found advertized for sale was a 5.2 pound crystal from mineralminers.com (and not as nicely shaped as yours is) (they're asking $2124 for it) (it's probably the 5-lb specimen you refer to in your email). I know I've seen in the past, "quite large" rubies for sale by some of the Indian dealers at the Denver Show, such as the gentleman named "Pandi"--I should remember his business name, you probably know it, maybe you're even bought crystals from him--for all I know, maybe you even bought your big one from him.; but I really don't remember, how large "quite large" was; maybe as big as yours, maybe not. So, congratulations on your really big and really good looking 10-pound ruby crystal, and I hope you go ahead and post a picture on mindat! (P.S., I see that many sources give, for the Mysore area, India, the more specific locality name as Karnataka. I haven't checked what's said on Mindat.) Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda LaCroix" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 9:22 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] CORUNDUM (used to be "Mindat and adding pictures -Pete) > Thanks, Pete....I LOVE MY CORUNDUM - especially rubies!!! I just added another album of my most current pieces, except a couple of new pieces I got this past month - but they aren't anything spectacular :-) > > >From what I have been told - and I do believe the information as I have done ALOT of research on rubies from Mysore - that My Giant is one of the 4-5 best "monster specimens" found to date....and they aren't finding anymore - at least as of a few months ago. I have looked for other pieces - either in collections or for sale - and the closest I have found was a 5 pound specimen for sale. It has the same coloration and nice formation, but of course, mine is almost twice the size!!!! And I feel I have done some extensive searching....but of course I could be wrong! > http://photos.yahoo.com/corndogs1969 From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Dec 29 09:16:04 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Dec 29 09:15:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Minedat In-Reply-To: <003a01c4edad$f24a0980$4e887644@dit03r92qai5fx> Message-ID: Yo Brenda......A slight but terminal case of rubycism, if ever I saw one. Have you ever put a blacklight on that one? Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Brenda LaCroix Verzonden: woensdag 29 december 2004 14:54 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Minedat REALLY?!?!?! We can add our OWN PICTURES to Minedat?!?!?! I have my 10+ pound ruby specimen from Mysore that I think should be on there :-) Have you guys seen pictures of My Giant?!?! http://photos.yahoo.com/corndogs1969 In the album, "A Giant of a Ruby" hehehehe!! I am really looking forward to hearing some opinions about My Giant!!! Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, NE CornDogs@Charter.net Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Goldstein" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] descriptive mineralogy I've written the Kentucky Mineral Locality Index. (It is in its final editing stage.) For all practical purposes, it is a list of minerals with collectible species in italics (collectible = usually crystallized). I wish I could add descriptive detail, but the result would be too large to fit in a magazine. Some of the mines in the western and central KY fluorspar districts are not known for mineral specimens because they were mined long ago (1811 - late 1800's) and there was little or no collecting during the short period they operated. In some cases where specimens were preserved, no detailed information was recorded. But there are plenty of other localities where this information is still available! I have turned to mindat to fill the void, but it has limitations. As Pete pointed out, the locality page has a field for adding mineral names, but no place for descriptions like "golden brown scalenohedrons to 50 cm." I've put that kind of information with the mineral photos I've added, but there are obvious limitations, i.e., having to look through all of the photos from a particular locality. At this time, that isn't a major issue, because most localities (at least those that I have looked at) have small numbers of mineral photos posted. (The largest number I have found in my limited searches are with the Minerva No. 1 mine.) Assuming that mindat doesn't disappear due to a computer hacker, web host problems, etc., eventually all collectible sites should be documented with lots of photos! Imagine if all the Franklin mineral species were illustrated, or minerals/crystal habits/associations from the Annabel Lee mine or the National Belle mine! Mindat should be organized as a database where one could type in "calcite" + "Elmwood" in a seach field and only those photos (or that data) would come up. From what I can figure, they are not there yet. But I plug away adding photos of minerals and localities as time allows. For example, check out the Corydon Quarry, Hasties Quarry or Beryl Pit to see what I have done. Personally, I'd like to see anyone on this list submit photos of minerals and localities. This is a group from across the globe. All you need is a digital camera or a scanner. (Or know someone with one...) Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 10:50 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] GPS data and descriptive mineralogy > Hi Rock, > > Actually, I think it was Lanny who gave the info about GPS receivers not > really being able to use so many satellites, not me--I don't want to take > his credit! > > Well, your descriptive mineralogy question is a complicated one. > Certainly, > when someone publishes a detailed article about an important locality, > such > as in Min. Record or Rocks & Minerals or in some monograph they've > written, > they do document this kind of information, but it just takes a longer > article to do so. Right, just a simple list of mineral species can't do > the > job. But many of the recent "mineral locality index" articles that have > appeared in R&M, have included this kind of extra info about what the > minerals look like and what kinds of habits/associations are present at a > locality, often in the form of photos included with the article; rather > than > the article just being a concise list of localities & species. > > Perhaps "mindat" could be a place for posting this kind of information? > Right now there only seems to be provision for posting photographs there > of > minerals from a given locality, not descriptions of the mineral as it > occurs > at each site. Is this something that can (or already is?) be readily > added, > to the bare bones list of minerals present? It could, of course, be > incorporated into the caption information in each photograph--say, if > there > was an image documenting each notable different habit of the mineral that > occurs at the locality. Any comments from some of our mindat experts? > > Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rock Currier" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 3:45 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS data and descriptive mineralogy > > >> Pete >> Thanks for the great way you put in perspective the claims of GPS > units >> that claim to be able to handle the data from many GPS satellites. >> Information is useful, but information put in correct perspective is > really >> much more valuable. >> >> I have had a bone to pick with descriptive mineralogy for years in that >> it >> is full of information about minerals but very little effort is ever made > to >> put that information into perspective. Lists of minerals found at > localities >> has always been a pet peeve. These lists provide information, but there >> is >> often little effort to put it into perspective. A locality produces >> pyrite >> and calcite. Who cares. What we want to know is what kind of calcite and >> pyrite are produced. What do they look like and how do they compare to >> pyrite and calcite from other localities? We spend all our lives as >> collectors, dealers and curators learning about stuff like that, but once > we >> learn about it this information is rarely written down. Ultimately we >> want >> to know: How good does the pyrite and calcite get from this locality? How >> much of it was collected and when? When these questions are answered the >> calcite and pyrite from a particular locality are put in perspective. >> Ultimately they will help answer the fundamental question that all of us >> want to know the answer to. Can I get one? >> Rock >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 29 09:40:47 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Wed Dec 29 09:31:49 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] postscript about tsunami warnings Message-ID: <003e01c4edcd$890b1520$b6a5490c@pete> A followup to our discussions about this, I just sought out the website of the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center, http://www.prh.noaa.gov/pr/ptwc/ and looked at their archive of recent tsunami bulletins, which is at http://www.prh.noaa.gov/ptwc/olderwmsg The comment has been made that anyone from these other Asian countries could have looked at the warnings sent out by the existing PTWC network and known of a likely tsunami threat; as well as the USGS earthquake notices which are sent by email to anyone, and been reasonably informed of the danger. This is partly true; however, as you'll see from these bulletins which I've copied below, the threat was underrated in them, and a Dec. 23 mag. 7.9 earthquake between Australia and New Zealand, which apparently did not produce any significant tsunami, generated a more serious-sounding warning than did the Sumatra earthquake. Part of the problem evidently was that the preliminary magnitude assigned to the Sumatra quake was only 8.0, which was subsequently (an hour later) upgraded to 8.5, still an underestimate. The times given in these bulletins are Universal (Greenwich) time. Compare the Sumatra bulletins to the 23 Dec one for Macquarie Island (AU-NZ region). Note that the first bulletin issued, at 1:14 Dec. 26 (15 minutes after the earthquake occurred at 0:59), makes it sound like there is no threat. The second one, issued 50 minutes later at 2:04, has only one line with a warning, which sounds less emphatic than the 23 Dec one did. There were no other update bulletins issued until Dec. 27. Pete TSUNAMI BULLETIN NUMBER 001 PACIFIC TSUNAMI WARNING CENTER/NOAA/NWS ISSUED AT 1519Z 23 DEC 2004 THIS BULLETIN IS FOR ALL AREAS OF THE PACIFIC BASIN EXCEPT ALASKA - BRITISH COLUMBIA - WASHINGTON - OREGON - CALIFORNIA. .................. TSUNAMI INFORMATION BULLETIN .................. THIS MESSAGE IS FOR INFORMATION ONLY. THERE IS NO TSUNAMI WARNING OR WATCH IN EFFECT. AN EARTHQUAKE HAS OCCURRED WITH THESE PRELIMINARY PARAMETERS ORIGIN TIME - 1459Z 23 DEC 2004 COORDINATES - 50.1 SOUTH 161.1 EAST LOCATION - NORTH OF MACQUARIE ISLAND MAGNITUDE - 7.9 EVALUATION THIS EARTHQUAKE IS LOCATED OUTSIDE THE PACIFIC. NO TSUNAMI THREAT EXISTS TO COASTLINES IN THE PACIFIC. HOWEVER - THIS EARTHQUAKE HAS THE POTENTIAL TO GENERATE A WIDELY DESTRUCTIVE TSUNAMI IN THE SEA NEAR THE EARTHQUAKE. AUTHORITIES IN THAT REGION SHOULD BE AWARE OF THIS POSSIBILITY. THIS WILL BE THE ONLY BULLETIN ISSUED FOR THIS EVENT UNLESS ADDITIONAL INFORMATION BECOMES AVAILABLE. ************************************************************** TSUNAMI BULLETIN NUMBER 001 PACIFIC TSUNAMI WARNING CENTER/NOAA/NWS ISSUED AT 0114Z 26 DEC 2004 THIS BULLETIN IS FOR ALL AREAS OF THE PACIFIC BASIN EXCEPT ALASKA - BRITISH COLUMBIA - WASHINGTON - OREGON - CALIFORNIA. .................. TSUNAMI INFORMATION BULLETIN .................. THIS MESSAGE IS FOR INFORMATION ONLY. THERE IS NO TSUNAMI WARNING OR WATCH IN EFFECT. AN EARTHQUAKE HAS OCCURRED WITH THESE PRELIMINARY PARAMETERS ORIGIN TIME - 0059Z 26 DEC 2004 COORDINATES - 3.4 NORTH 95.7 EAST LOCATION - OFF W COAST OF NORTHERN SUMATERA MAGNITUDE - 8.0 EVALUATION THIS EARTHQUAKE IS LOCATED OUTSIDE THE PACIFIC. NO DESTRUCTIVE TSUNAMI THREAT EXISTS BASED ON HISTORICAL EARTHQUAKE AND TSUNAMI DATA. THIS WILL BE THE ONLY BULLETIN ISSUED FOR THIS EVENT UNLESS ADDITIONAL INFORMATION BECOMES AVAILABLE. ************************************************************** TSUNAMI BULLETIN NUMBER 002 PACIFIC TSUNAMI WARNING CENTER/NOAA/NWS ISSUED AT 0204Z 26 DEC 2004 THIS BULLETIN IS FOR ALL AREAS OF THE PACIFIC BASIN EXCEPT ALASKA - BRITISH COLUMBIA - WASHINGTON - OREGON - CALIFORNIA. .................. TSUNAMI INFORMATION BULLETIN .................. ATTENTION: NOTE REVISED MAGNITUDE. THIS MESSAGE IS FOR INFORMATION ONLY. THERE IS NO TSUNAMI WARNING OR WATCH IN EFFECT. AN EARTHQUAKE HAS OCCURRED WITH THESE PRELIMINARY PARAMETERS ORIGIN TIME - 0059Z 26 DEC 2004 COORDINATES - 3.4 NORTH 95.7 EAST LOCATION - OFF W COAST OF NORTHERN SUMATERA MAGNITUDE - 8.5 EVALUATION REVISED MAGNITUDE BASED ON ANALYSIS OF MANTLE WAVES. THIS EARTHQUAKE IS LOCATED OUTSIDE THE PACIFIC. NO DESTRUCTIVE TSUNAMI THREAT EXISTS FOR THE PACIFIC BASIN BASED ON HISTORICAL EARTHQUAKE AND TSUNAMI DATA. THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY OF A TSUNAMI NEAR THE EPICENTER. THIS WILL BE THE ONLY BULLETIN ISSUED FOR THIS EVENT UNLESS ADDITIONAL INFORMATION BECOMES AVAILABLE. THE WEST COAST/ALASKA TSUNAMI WARNING CENTER WILL ISSUE BULLETINS FOR ALASKA - BRITISH COLUMBIA - WASHINGTON - OREGON - CALIFORNIA. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jabac at hal-pc.org Wed Dec 29 09:51:11 2004 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Wed Dec 29 09:50:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! In-Reply-To: <003a01c4ebd7$83a45ee0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> References: <41CF1F99.1070903@xs4all.nl> <006b01c4eb8e$4f118c50$8e91fea9@Namibiaminerals> <41CF34D9.4010007@xs4all.nl> <003a01c4ebd7$83a45ee0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <1104342624.2802.35.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2004-12-26 at 23:47, Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > Ok, poets out there...... > > Finish this ode to Axel... > > "When you wish upon a star....." > > 1. "Could be Axel from afar.... When you wish upon a star Think of Axel in a bar Holding forth to one and all What a marvel! What a ball! Turn that 'scope a little right And tell your friends what you have seen The steady shining little light Of Asteroid One-Fifty-Five-Thirteen. What you see is not what you get I belong to yet another set Think of where I am tonight Floating nearly out of sight In manly orbit round the sun A journey not so lightly done. I will add upon your wish My own to your desire That all and sundry, near and far Want only good from this...little star john From corndogs at charter.net Wed Dec 29 09:51:37 2004 From: corndogs at charter.net (Brenda LaCroix) Date: Wed Dec 29 09:51:33 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] big rubies References: <200412280202.iBS22HNC032069@bubbleator.drizzle.com><006401c4ecca$492580c0$97f7a5d8@rock5><001e01c4ecf5$04f193a0$49a4490c@pete><00b701c4ed56$dc263b80$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose><003a01c4edad$f24a0980$4e887644@dit03r92qai5fx><000d01c4edb7$6a6ddf00$b6a5490c@pete><007c01c4edb6$ba343170$4e887644@dit03r92qai5fx><001c01c4edb9$d5aaf4e0$b6a5490c@pete><009a01c4edc2$a891c3e0$4e887644@dit03r92qai5fx> <003201c4edca$8eab8a80$b6a5490c@pete> Message-ID: <00ab01c4edcf$0b8957e0$4e887644@dit03r92qai5fx> YUP....and NOPE :-) That is the ruby I was referring to.....I got such an amazing deal on mine that I would be embarrased to tell you....you probably wouldn't believe me.....think that it isn't real...or that I have something 'going on' with the seller.....LOL!! But none of that is the case, I can tell you ;-) I have never been to any shows and have done all of my purchasing online - I believe I have gotten incredibly lucky in my purchases. So no, I have never heard of that dealer....does he have a website that you know of??? I would be most interested :-) And yes....My Giant came from Subramium, Kanakarta, Mysore, India - I think that was the 'offical' name on him. Does that mean he is from the Subramium (sp??) Mine in the city of Kanakarta in the state of Mysore in the country of India???? That is what I have been thinking. I wish I could find the piece of paper so I could make sure that was exactly what it said, but I think I have read it so often that I am right. Should I look for it and make sure so that I can get the correct information from you guys or does that sound right???? Any more help you can give me with this.....just to solidify the information I have been given - again, not that I don't believe everything he has told me since he wasn't trying to make money off of this ruby or anything - BELIEVE ME!!!!!! But shouldn't we always double check the information we are given??? I think it is soooooooooo easy to lie about where our rocks come from, isn't it?!?!?! Brenda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] big rubies Brenda, You're quite right, I think--about the exceptional size of your ruby crystal. I just did a quick search on the internet, and the biggest ruby crystal I found advertized for sale was a 5.2 pound crystal from mineralminers.com (and not as nicely shaped as yours is) (they're asking $2124 for it) (it's probably the 5-lb specimen you refer to in your email). I know I've seen in the past, "quite large" rubies for sale by some of the Indian dealers at the Denver Show, such as the gentleman named "Pandi"--I should remember his business name, you probably know it, maybe you're even bought crystals from him--for all I know, maybe you even bought your big one from him.; but I really don't remember, how large "quite large" was; maybe as big as yours, maybe not. So, congratulations on your really big and really good looking 10-pound ruby crystal, and I hope you go ahead and post a picture on mindat! (P.S., I see that many sources give, for the Mysore area, India, the more specific locality name as Karnataka. I haven't checked what's said on Mindat.) Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda LaCroix" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 9:22 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] CORUNDUM (used to be "Mindat and adding pictures -Pete) > Thanks, Pete....I LOVE MY CORUNDUM - especially rubies!!! I just added another album of my most current pieces, except a couple of new pieces I got this past month - but they aren't anything spectacular :-) > > >From what I have been told - and I do believe the information as I have done ALOT of research on rubies from Mysore - that My Giant is one of the 4-5 best "monster specimens" found to date....and they aren't finding anymore - at least as of a few months ago. I have looked for other pieces - either in collections or for sale - and the closest I have found was a 5 pound specimen for sale. It has the same coloration and nice formation, but of course, mine is almost twice the size!!!! And I feel I have done some extensive searching....but of course I could be wrong! > http://photos.yahoo.com/corndogs1969 _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From corndogs at charter.net Wed Dec 29 09:56:45 2004 From: corndogs at charter.net (Brenda LaCroix) Date: Wed Dec 29 09:56:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Minedat References: Message-ID: <00af01c4edcf$c32595d0$4e887644@dit03r92qai5fx> HI, Axel....LOL!!! Yes, I am hooked, no doubt about it. I do searches on ebay every other day to make sure I don't miss anything that I HAVE to have :-) And I have made a couple of amazing friends who are dealer/collectors and they have taught me almost everything I know....the rest coming with my own research with them planting the seed :-) NO....I have never put a blacklight on it.....should I?!?!?!? What would I be looking for if I did....LOL!!! I have read that rubies can flouresce (sp?), is that right?? Is that what I would be looking for?? Where does one go about getting a blacklight, or finding someone who has one that I could use momentarily?? I certainly wouldn't need to buy one, would I??? Or maybe it is something that is needed to be a rockhound?? hehehe!!! Very interested..... Brenda C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Desktop\sig line bold 10 plus name1.htmlBrenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, NE CornDogs@Charter.net Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 11:16 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Minedat Yo Brenda......A slight but terminal case of rubycism, if ever I saw one. Have you ever put a blacklight on that one? Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Brenda LaCroix Verzonden: woensdag 29 december 2004 14:54 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Minedat REALLY?!?!?! We can add our OWN PICTURES to Minedat?!?!?! I have my 10+ pound ruby specimen from Mysore that I think should be on there :-) Have you guys seen pictures of My Giant?!?! http://photos.yahoo.com/corndogs1969 In the album, "A Giant of a Ruby" hehehehe!! I am really looking forward to hearing some opinions about My Giant!!! Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, NE CornDogs@Charter.net Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Goldstein" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] descriptive mineralogy I've written the Kentucky Mineral Locality Index. (It is in its final editing stage.) For all practical purposes, it is a list of minerals with collectible species in italics (collectible = usually crystallized). I wish I could add descriptive detail, but the result would be too large to fit in a magazine. Some of the mines in the western and central KY fluorspar districts are not known for mineral specimens because they were mined long ago (1811 - late 1800's) and there was little or no collecting during the short period they operated. In some cases where specimens were preserved, no detailed information was recorded. But there are plenty of other localities where this information is still available! I have turned to mindat to fill the void, but it has limitations. As Pete pointed out, the locality page has a field for adding mineral names, but no place for descriptions like "golden brown scalenohedrons to 50 cm." I've put that kind of information with the mineral photos I've added, but there are obvious limitations, i.e., having to look through all of the photos from a particular locality. At this time, that isn't a major issue, because most localities (at least those that I have looked at) have small numbers of mineral photos posted. (The largest number I have found in my limited searches are with the Minerva No. 1 mine.) Assuming that mindat doesn't disappear due to a computer hacker, web host problems, etc., eventually all collectible sites should be documented with lots of photos! Imagine if all the Franklin mineral species were illustrated, or minerals/crystal habits/associations from the Annabel Lee mine or the National Belle mine! Mindat should be organized as a database where one could type in "calcite" + "Elmwood" in a seach field and only those photos (or that data) would come up. From what I can figure, they are not there yet. But I plug away adding photos of minerals and localities as time allows. For example, check out the Corydon Quarry, Hasties Quarry or Beryl Pit to see what I have done. Personally, I'd like to see anyone on this list submit photos of minerals and localities. This is a group from across the globe. All you need is a digital camera or a scanner. (Or know someone with one...) Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 10:50 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] GPS data and descriptive mineralogy > Hi Rock, > > Actually, I think it was Lanny who gave the info about GPS receivers not > really being able to use so many satellites, not me--I don't want to take > his credit! > > Well, your descriptive mineralogy question is a complicated one. > Certainly, > when someone publishes a detailed article about an important locality, > such > as in Min. Record or Rocks & Minerals or in some monograph they've > written, > they do document this kind of information, but it just takes a longer > article to do so. Right, just a simple list of mineral species can't do > the > job. But many of the recent "mineral locality index" articles that have > appeared in R&M, have included this kind of extra info about what the > minerals look like and what kinds of habits/associations are present at a > locality, often in the form of photos included with the article; rather > than > the article just being a concise list of localities & species. > > Perhaps "mindat" could be a place for posting this kind of information? > Right now there only seems to be provision for posting photographs there > of > minerals from a given locality, not descriptions of the mineral as it > occurs > at each site. Is this something that can (or already is?) be readily > added, > to the bare bones list of minerals present? It could, of course, be > incorporated into the caption information in each photograph--say, if > there > was an image documenting each notable different habit of the mineral that > occurs at the locality. Any comments from some of our mindat experts? > > Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rock Currier" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 3:45 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS data and descriptive mineralogy > > >> Pete >> Thanks for the great way you put in perspective the claims of GPS > units >> that claim to be able to handle the data from many GPS satellites. >> Information is useful, but information put in correct perspective is > really >> much more valuable. >> >> I have had a bone to pick with descriptive mineralogy for years in that >> it >> is full of information about minerals but very little effort is ever made > to >> put that information into perspective. Lists of minerals found at > localities >> has always been a pet peeve. These lists provide information, but there >> is >> often little effort to put it into perspective. A locality produces >> pyrite >> and calcite. Who cares. What we want to know is what kind of calcite and >> pyrite are produced. What do they look like and how do they compare to >> pyrite and calcite from other localities? We spend all our lives as >> collectors, dealers and curators learning about stuff like that, but once > we >> learn about it this information is rarely written down. Ultimately we >> want >> to know: How good does the pyrite and calcite get from this locality? How >> much of it was collected and when? When these questions are answered the >> calcite and pyrite from a particular locality are put in perspective. >> Ultimately they will help answer the fundamental question that all of us >> want to know the answer to. Can I get one? >> Rock >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From corndogs at charter.net Wed Dec 29 10:02:43 2004 From: corndogs at charter.net (Brenda LaCroix) Date: Wed Dec 29 10:02:41 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! References: <41CF1F99.1070903@xs4all.nl><006b01c4eb8e$4f118c50$8e91fea9@Namibiaminerals><41CF34D9.4010007@xs4all.nl> <003a01c4ebd7$83a45ee0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <1104342624.2802.35.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <00b701c4edd0$995c25b0$4e887644@dit03r92qai5fx> OH MY.....I think there is a poet among us :-) That is quite the homage, I have to say!!! Brenda C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Desktop\sig line bold 10 plus name1.htmlBrenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, NE CornDogs@Charter.net Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! On Sun, 2004-12-26 at 23:47, Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > Ok, poets out there...... > > Finish this ode to Axel... > > "When you wish upon a star....." > > 1. "Could be Axel from afar.... When you wish upon a star Think of Axel in a bar Holding forth to one and all What a marvel! What a ball! Turn that 'scope a little right And tell your friends what you have seen The steady shining little light Of Asteroid One-Fifty-Five-Thirteen. What you see is not what you get I belong to yet another set Think of where I am tonight Floating nearly out of sight In manly orbit round the sun A journey not so lightly done. I will add upon your wish My own to your desire That all and sundry, near and far Want only good from this...little star john _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 29 10:14:18 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Wed Dec 29 10:05:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence References: <00af01c4edcf$c32595d0$4e887644@dit03r92qai5fx> Message-ID: <005a01c4edd2$377d7360$b6a5490c@pete> Brenda, Most rubies fluoresce red, under long-wave ultraviolet light; an exception among minerals, because long-wave UV lamps are the less expensive kind. Some rubies are brighter than others. Yes, you should get a lamp and check out all your ruby crystals! One of many good places to start for more information is the Fluorescent Mineral Society website, http://www.uvminerals.org/ Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda LaCroix" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Minedat > NO....I have never put a blacklight on it.....should I?!?!?!? > > What would I be looking for if I did....LOL!!! I have read that rubies can flouresce (sp?), is that right?? Is that what I would > be looking for?? > > Where does one go about getting a blacklight, or finding someone who has one that I could use momentarily?? I certainly wouldn't > need to buy one, would I??? Or maybe it is something that is needed to be a rockhound?? hehehe!!! > > Very interested..... > Brenda From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Wed Dec 29 11:32:07 2004 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Wed Dec 29 11:56:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake References: <20041228181646.BC1C9CB9ABD@delivery.infowest.com><00a501c4ed0b$0c53d3e0$7c8ca842@dit03r92qai5fx><41D1A800.5010801@azgs.az.gov> <41D1AC99.7070207@xs4all.nl> <41D1BB2E.1080802@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: <000201c4ede0$6f4e0da0$0b4227c4@privatehome> Hi List, According to today's "Pretoria News", the resulting wave even reached South African shores. Quote:- "Two Eastern Cape swimmers, a man and a boy are still missing after being swept out to sea by a sudden 3m rise in sea level caused by the deadly tidal waves that wreaked havoc from south Asia to East Africa on Sunday. The National Sea Rescue Insitute (NSRI) said a Uitenhage man, Hamish Weitz (32) and an unidentified Eazt London boy, aged between 10 and 12 are presumed drowned. NSRI stations in Port Elizabeth, East London, Plettenberrg Bay, Port Alfred and Richards Bay all reported yesterday that the sea level had risen swiftly and dramatically along the Eastern Cape coastline from 6 pm on Sunday, sending a 3m-high tide surging onshore. Weitz was swimming with two friends at Blue Horizon Bay outside Port Elizabeth in "knee deep water that rose suddenly until it was over the top of their heads", said Ian Grey of the Port Elizabeth NSRI station. Weitz was swept out to sea, but his friends, due to the CPR efforts of a doctor on the beach survived. In East London, four boys, aged between 10 and 12, disappeared while swimming in the Quinera River at Gonubie as a mass of water surged inland from the sea at 6.15 pm on Sunday, said Jeff Mcgregor of the East London NSRI station. Buffalo City municipal lifeguards managed to save three of the boys in time, but the fourth is presumed drowned. Municipal lifeguards also saved another two small children at Gonubie and a man at Eastern Beach in the city.. Lifeguard Catherine Prentis said:-"The sea was really strange. It was receding very fast and then rising way past the high water mark in about 20 seconds." Mcgregor said the level of the Bufallo River, where the East London harbour and yacht club are situated, rose 3m and most of the yachts were wrenched from their moorings." The South African eastern coastline is the extreme end of the Indian Ocean, thus even parts these parts of the earth were influenced by the tsunami, thousands of miles away. An aeroplane sent to Thailand on Tuesday, arrived back at Johannesburg International Airport with about 60 South African survivors and four bodies today. This is surely one of the world's major modern disasters and our thoughts and prayers go out to all those people affected. Horst---- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Trapp" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:59 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake > Actually, Somalia was hit about 6 hours after the earthquake... > > > > > Maurice de Graaf wrote: > >> Not only that, a magnitude ~9 earthquake occurs only a few times in a >> century. All the >9 quakes except for one in the 20th century occured in >> the northern Pacifc, the other in the Chile. >> >> 1960 Chile 9.5 >> 1964 Alaska 9.2 >> 1957 Alaska 9.1 >> 1952 Kamchatka 9 >> >> By far not all quakes trigger a tsunami. For this to happen the epicenter >> has to be in the sea and the seafloor must experience a sudden move >> upward. So a magnitude 9 quake is pretty rare, a 9-er that poduced a >> giant tsunami is more rare and having it in the Indian Ocean is something >> nobody could foresee. >> >> What I do agree with Brenda is that common sense did not always >> prevail.After a full day of coverage on CNN and other media Somalia got >> hit. Still many people fell victim on the beaches. local authorities >> should have seen it comming and at least place warning signs. Then again, >> Somalia does not have much of a government at the moment. >> >> cheers, >> Maurice >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Richard Trapp wrote: >> >>> Actually there was a discussion of this on NPR this morning. >>> >>> Short story: At this time they believe tsunamis occur in the Indian >>> Ocean on the order of one every FEW HUNDRED years, >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> > > -- > Rick Trapp > Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey > rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From Bunyhgr203 at aol.com Wed Dec 29 12:05:57 2004 From: Bunyhgr203 at aol.com (Bunyhgr203@aol.com) Date: Wed Dec 29 12:06:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) Message-ID: <53.1de35a7c.2f046825@aol.com> Subject re:Sumatra earthquake warning response Dear john,,{no pun intended} While I agree with you about the conditions and lack of communications in the areas effected by the tsunomi,, I feel it is important to note that your comments about " our cozie little illusion" are a bit scewed.....we have in our own nation many many peoples living in the same conditions as those you describe in the areas effected, yet there are no acknowledgements from the general public let alone our government that theses same contidtions exit right here in our back yards.............."illusion" seems to be the perfect analogy to decribe american life,,,,,,,,,,,,while I feel terrible for those suffering under oppressive governments, natural disasters, and human indifferance,,,I have to ask. How do we help others, be the savyors of the world, and turn a blind eye to the needs of the people living below poverty level here in our backyards who are "just barely hanging on " ? Who should come first? Unfortunatly we donnot have a morality early warning system. sorry off my soap box,,,,,, just thought some of your equation was overlooked,,many areas within the US do not have any warning systems for natural disasters either ! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Bunyhgr203 at aol.com Wed Dec 29 12:21:58 2004 From: Bunyhgr203 at aol.com (Bunyhgr203@aol.com) Date: Wed Dec 29 12:22:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] giant ruby Message-ID: <1c1.21c81436.2f046be6@aol.com> Dear Brenda, All i can say is ,,WOW Did you collect this speciamen yourelf,,? and would you care to share where,,,? Cheryl Omaha , Ne Bunyhgr203@aol.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From DOMMELEN at DAL.CA Wed Dec 29 12:27:29 2004 From: DOMMELEN at DAL.CA (Ronnie Van Dommelen) Date: Wed Dec 29 12:27:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for Larry Havens - Littleton, Colorado Message-ID: <1104352049.41d31331aa959@my2.dal.ca> Hi All! I'm hoping someone on this list can help me with this. I'm looking for an email address (if he has one) for Larry Havens, a member of the Littleton Gem & Mineral Club in Colorado. If he does not have one, another member of that club would do. Thank you! Ronnie Van Dommelen From Bunyhgr203 at aol.com Wed Dec 29 12:41:24 2004 From: Bunyhgr203 at aol.com (Bunyhgr203@aol.com) Date: Wed Dec 29 12:41:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] maps and collecting locations Message-ID: <7f.5464ef2a.2f047074@aol.com> Hello everyone! I am a new member of the list,,and have lain back and observed for a while now,,to get the feel of what it's all about. I think this is a great forum! Now I have a question for you all, I am sure you have run up against it before and surely will again. My collecting experience has been limited to what I happen upon, and to club field trips, while I love to reserch,,it is often hard to find specific information on collecting sites for gems, Minerals, fossils and of course the beloved agates and petrified wood. So the question is,, do any of you have recommendations of where to look for specific information,,,maps,,and types of "software" that can help me build a map collection {topographical maps} . Cheryl Omaha,Ne Bunyhgr203@aol.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From JScully216 at aol.com Wed Dec 29 12:48:52 2004 From: JScully216 at aol.com (JScully216@aol.com) Date: Wed Dec 29 12:49:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] maps and collecting locations Message-ID: <1f3.3af3297.2f047234@aol.com> If you are collecting on public lands in the far west, BLM and Forest Service maps are a good start. Then use the National Geographic digitized topo maps which provide great detail and allow you to explore an entire area of interest down to individual prospects,mines, etc. The NG topo programs cost about $130 per state. I have the one for NM and find it an excellent way to explore a mining district. John Scully In a message dated 12/29/2004 1:41:49 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, Bunyhgr203@aol.com writes: Hello everyone! I am a new member of the list,,and have lain back and observed for a while now,,to get the feel of what it's all about. I think this is a great forum! Now I have a question for you all, I am sure you have run up against it before and surely will again. My collecting experience has been limited to what I happen upon, and to club field trips, while I love to reserch,,it is often hard to find specific information on collecting sites for gems, Minerals, fossils and of course the beloved agates and petrified wood. So the question is,, do any of you have recommendations of where to look for specific information,,,maps,,and types of "software" that can help me build a map collection {topographical maps} . Cheryl Omaha,Ne Bunyhgr203@aol.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jbryankramer at msn.com Wed Dec 29 14:13:31 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Dec 29 14:13:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Most powerful earthquake ever In-Reply-To: <00dc01c4ed58$a0c0ee80$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: Right as I noted below, there actually were two people using seismoscopes that they constructed. Coincidently I picked up "The New Madrid Earthquakes" by Penick at the library and finished reading it a couple of weeks ago. He goes into some detail on these seismoscopes and the subsequent invention of recording seismographs. One of the fellows apparently watched his devices night and day for months keeping a detailed log of the results. Interesting small book but I'd look for it at the library rather than buying it. Bryan -------Original Message----- - -- --There was a fellow in Louisville (a dentist, perhaps), who --created a device --to record earthquakes after one of the last big ones in New --Madrid (1812 I --believe). That was its only purpose. He noted some 600 --aftershocks with his --primitive instrument. It was not a recording device and I --don't remember the --details of how it worked. -- --Alan -- ------- Original Message ----- --From: "J Bryan Kramer" --To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem --collectors'" -- --Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 8:38 PM --Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Most powerful earthquake ever -- -- --> Seismographs weren't invented until the last half of the --1800's. Early --> seismoscopes were in use for the New Madrid quakes but weren't --> calibrated and of course left no record. So the Chile event in 1960 --> would have to be the greatest recorded quake. Without a doubt there --> have been much larger events in the past. --> --> Bryan --> --> --> -------Original Message----- --> -- --> --Hi everyone, --> -- --> --As an aside from the catastrophe in the Indian Ocean, I --am --curious --> what --might be the most powerful earthquake (or quakes) ever --> recorded, and --how much damage, loss of life, and change of --> topography occurred in --consequence of it or them. --> -- --> --Cheers --> --Hans Durstling --> --Moncton, Canada --> -- --> --_______________________________________________ --> --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --> --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --> --Subscription Services: --> --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --> -- --> --> _______________________________________________ --> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --> Subscription Services: --> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --> -- -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- From jbryankramer at msn.com Wed Dec 29 14:17:22 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Dec 29 14:17:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Madrid earthquakes In-Reply-To: <00b201c4ed52$b0a87df0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: Ah, is that failed rift under that part of the country, I thought it was farther west, more under Kansas. Penick in the book I mention in the other post said it was still a mystery. Maybe just trying to inject some mystery into his book. Bryan -------Original Message----- -- --Mystery? There is no mystery. The New Madrid fault zone is --part of the mid --continent rift system. It was formed in the Precambrian (~700 --m.y.a.) and is --still active today. It is thought that the earthquakes in --1811 - 12 occur --about every 500 or so years. Those periodic earthquakes and --tsunamis that --occurred when the continent was under shallow seas (i.e., --Cambrian - Upper --Mississippian) could have caused a lot of the so called --tempestites and --created things like the Crawfordsville crinoid beds. --(Combined with the more --mundane hurricanes and tropical storms.) -- --Although the rift is no longer active, I read somewhere that --the continental --ocean sediments (and later the Mississippi River) would --continue to add --sediments in the rift valley over time. As a result of sediment being --deposited for such a long time, some 20,000 feet of sediment --has covered the --original structure and the weight of all that sediment keeps --the faults --moving - greasing the wheel so to speak. Since I'm not a --geophysicist, I can --only regurgitate info that I read. -- --There are some excellent books on the New Madrid Quakes, --including some --great stories from eye witnesses (like John James Audubon). --Visit Reelfoot --Lake in Tennessee - that was created by the shifting of land --under the --Mississippi! -- --Alan -- -- ------- Original Message ----- --From: "J Bryan Kramer" --To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem --collectors'" -- --Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 8:33 PM --Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake -- -- --> The New Madrid mid-plate earthquake series had at least --three of the --> four quakes around the high 8's and low 9's, the third quake is --> supposedly just below The 1960 Chile event in magnitude. --The cause of --> the New Madrid quakes is still a mystery. --> --> The 1755 Lisbon earthquake was estimated to be around --magnitude 9 and --> generated tsunamis as well. So there are examples of big --quakes away --> from the Pacific rim. --> --> Bryan --> --> -------Original Message----- --> -- --> -- --> --Not only that, a magnitude ~9 earthquake occurs only a --few --times --> in a --century. All the >9 quakes except for one in the 20th century --> --occurred in --> --the northern Pacific, the other in the Chile. --> -- --> --1960 Chile 9.5 --> --1964 Alaska 9.2 --> --1957 Alaska 9.1 --> --1952 Kamchatka 9 --> -- --> --By far not all quakes trigger a tsunami. For this to happen the --> --epicenter has to be in the sea and the seafloor must --> --experience a sudden --> --move upward. So a magnitude 9 quake is pretty rare, a 9-er --> --that poduced --> --a giant tsunami is more rare and having it in the Indian Ocean is --> --something nobody could foresee. --> -- --> --What I do agree with Brenda is that common sense did not always --> --prevail.After a full day of coverage on CNN and other media --> --Somalia got --> --hit. Still many people fell victim on the beaches. local --authorities --> --should have seen it comming and at least place warning signs. Then --> --again, Somalia does not have much of a government at the moment. --> -- --> --cheers, --> --Maurice --> -- --> -- --> -- --> -- --> -- --> -- --> -- --> --Richard Trapp wrote: --> -- --> --> Actually there was a discussion of this on NPR this morning. --> --> --> --> Short story: At this time they believe tsunamis occur in the --> --> Indian Ocean on the order of one every FEW HUNDRED years, --> -- --> -- --> --_______________________________________________ --> --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --> --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --> --Subscription Services: --> --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --> -- --> --> _______________________________________________ --> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --> Subscription Services: --> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --> -- -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Dec 29 15:22:14 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Dec 29 15:21:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] postscript about tsunami warnings In-Reply-To: <003e01c4edcd$890b1520$b6a5490c@pete> Message-ID: Hi Pete, if I recall right (SSP... Standard Safety Phrase ;-)), a tsunami occurs only when: a) the ocean floor is lifted over a substantial distance. The water above it is lifted too and this generates the tsunami. b) a large amount of land or ice slides in the sea or ocean. Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Peter J. Modreski Verzonden: woensdag 29 december 2004 18:41 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors CC: pmodresk@usgs.gov Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] postscript about tsunami warnings A followup to our discussions about this, I just sought out the website of the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center, http://www.prh.noaa.gov/pr/ptwc/ and looked at their archive of recent tsunami bulletins, which is at http://www.prh.noaa.gov/ptwc/olderwmsg The comment has been made that anyone from these other Asian countries could have looked at the warnings sent out by the existing PTWC network and known of a likely tsunami threat; as well as the USGS earthquake notices which are sent by email to anyone, and been reasonably informed of the danger. This is partly true; however, as you'll see from these bulletins which I've copied below, the threat was underrated in them, and a Dec. 23 mag. 7.9 earthquake between Australia and New Zealand, which apparently did not produce any significant tsunami, generated a more serious-sounding warning than did the Sumatra earthquake. Part of the problem evidently was that the preliminary magnitude assigned to the Sumatra quake was only 8.0, which was subsequently (an hour later) upgraded to 8.5, still an underestimate. The times given in these bulletins are Universal (Greenwich) time. Compare the Sumatra bulletins to the 23 Dec one for Macquarie Island (AU-NZ region). Note that the first bulletin issued, at 1:14 Dec. 26 (15 minutes after the earthquake occurred at 0:59), makes it sound like there is no threat. The second one, issued 50 minutes later at 2:04, has only one line with a warning, which sounds less emphatic than the 23 Dec one did. There were no other update bulletins issued until Dec. 27. Pete TSUNAMI BULLETIN NUMBER 001 PACIFIC TSUNAMI WARNING CENTER/NOAA/NWS ISSUED AT 1519Z 23 DEC 2004 THIS BULLETIN IS FOR ALL AREAS OF THE PACIFIC BASIN EXCEPT ALASKA - BRITISH COLUMBIA - WASHINGTON - OREGON - CALIFORNIA. .................. TSUNAMI INFORMATION BULLETIN .................. THIS MESSAGE IS FOR INFORMATION ONLY. THERE IS NO TSUNAMI WARNING OR WATCH IN EFFECT. AN EARTHQUAKE HAS OCCURRED WITH THESE PRELIMINARY PARAMETERS ORIGIN TIME - 1459Z 23 DEC 2004 COORDINATES - 50.1 SOUTH 161.1 EAST LOCATION - NORTH OF MACQUARIE ISLAND MAGNITUDE - 7.9 EVALUATION THIS EARTHQUAKE IS LOCATED OUTSIDE THE PACIFIC. NO TSUNAMI THREAT EXISTS TO COASTLINES IN THE PACIFIC. HOWEVER - THIS EARTHQUAKE HAS THE POTENTIAL TO GENERATE A WIDELY DESTRUCTIVE TSUNAMI IN THE SEA NEAR THE EARTHQUAKE. AUTHORITIES IN THAT REGION SHOULD BE AWARE OF THIS POSSIBILITY. THIS WILL BE THE ONLY BULLETIN ISSUED FOR THIS EVENT UNLESS ADDITIONAL INFORMATION BECOMES AVAILABLE. ************************************************************** TSUNAMI BULLETIN NUMBER 001 PACIFIC TSUNAMI WARNING CENTER/NOAA/NWS ISSUED AT 0114Z 26 DEC 2004 THIS BULLETIN IS FOR ALL AREAS OF THE PACIFIC BASIN EXCEPT ALASKA - BRITISH COLUMBIA - WASHINGTON - OREGON - CALIFORNIA. .................. TSUNAMI INFORMATION BULLETIN .................. THIS MESSAGE IS FOR INFORMATION ONLY. THERE IS NO TSUNAMI WARNING OR WATCH IN EFFECT. AN EARTHQUAKE HAS OCCURRED WITH THESE PRELIMINARY PARAMETERS ORIGIN TIME - 0059Z 26 DEC 2004 COORDINATES - 3.4 NORTH 95.7 EAST LOCATION - OFF W COAST OF NORTHERN SUMATERA MAGNITUDE - 8.0 EVALUATION THIS EARTHQUAKE IS LOCATED OUTSIDE THE PACIFIC. NO DESTRUCTIVE TSUNAMI THREAT EXISTS BASED ON HISTORICAL EARTHQUAKE AND TSUNAMI DATA. THIS WILL BE THE ONLY BULLETIN ISSUED FOR THIS EVENT UNLESS ADDITIONAL INFORMATION BECOMES AVAILABLE. ************************************************************** TSUNAMI BULLETIN NUMBER 002 PACIFIC TSUNAMI WARNING CENTER/NOAA/NWS ISSUED AT 0204Z 26 DEC 2004 THIS BULLETIN IS FOR ALL AREAS OF THE PACIFIC BASIN EXCEPT ALASKA - BRITISH COLUMBIA - WASHINGTON - OREGON - CALIFORNIA. .................. TSUNAMI INFORMATION BULLETIN .................. ATTENTION: NOTE REVISED MAGNITUDE. THIS MESSAGE IS FOR INFORMATION ONLY. THERE IS NO TSUNAMI WARNING OR WATCH IN EFFECT. AN EARTHQUAKE HAS OCCURRED WITH THESE PRELIMINARY PARAMETERS ORIGIN TIME - 0059Z 26 DEC 2004 COORDINATES - 3.4 NORTH 95.7 EAST LOCATION - OFF W COAST OF NORTHERN SUMATERA MAGNITUDE - 8.5 EVALUATION REVISED MAGNITUDE BASED ON ANALYSIS OF MANTLE WAVES. THIS EARTHQUAKE IS LOCATED OUTSIDE THE PACIFIC. NO DESTRUCTIVE TSUNAMI THREAT EXISTS FOR THE PACIFIC BASIN BASED ON HISTORICAL EARTHQUAKE AND TSUNAMI DATA. THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY OF A TSUNAMI NEAR THE EPICENTER. THIS WILL BE THE ONLY BULLETIN ISSUED FOR THIS EVENT UNLESS ADDITIONAL INFORMATION BECOMES AVAILABLE. THE WEST COAST/ALASKA TSUNAMI WARNING CENTER WILL ISSUE BULLETINS FOR ALASKA - BRITISH COLUMBIA - WASHINGTON - OREGON - CALIFORNIA. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Dec 29 15:25:49 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Dec 29 15:25:20 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! In-Reply-To: <1104342624.2802.35.camel@localhost> Message-ID: Not half bad ;-)))) Differenc ebetween me and the rock is that you don't need a scope to see me. Better of with a fisheye lens ;-))) Cheers "Rocky" Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens john Verzonden: woensdag 29 december 2004 18:51 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! On Sun, 2004-12-26 at 23:47, Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > Ok, poets out there...... > > Finish this ode to Axel... > > "When you wish upon a star....." > > 1. "Could be Axel from afar.... When you wish upon a star Think of Axel in a bar Holding forth to one and all What a marvel! What a ball! Turn that 'scope a little right And tell your friends what you have seen The steady shining little light Of Asteroid One-Fifty-Five-Thirteen. What you see is not what you get I belong to yet another set Think of where I am tonight Floating nearly out of sight In manly orbit round the sun A journey not so lightly done. I will add upon your wish My own to your desire That all and sundry, near and far Want only good from this...little star john _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 29 15:37:12 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Wed Dec 29 15:28:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for Larry Havens - Littleton, Colorado References: <1104352049.41d31331aa959@my2.dal.ca> Message-ID: <002401c4edff$572e1de0$fba4490c@pete> Ronnie, I think (but am not sure) that I should have an email address for Larry Havens; I am a member of the Littleton Club. If I have one, I may have it in the memory of my computer at the office--I don't have one here at home. Larry is the (2004) president of the Littleton club, but the club newsletter only gives a phone number, not an email. If I find one for him, I'll write back to you off-list. Otherwise you can also write c/o the club, Littleton GMC@yahoo.com Pete Modreski ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ronnie Van Dommelen" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 1:27 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for Larry Havens - Littleton, Colorado > Hi All! > > I'm hoping someone on this list can help me with this. I'm looking for an email > address (if he has one) for Larry Havens, a member of the Littleton Gem & > Mineral Club in Colorado. If he does not have one, another member of that club > would do. Thank you! > > Ronnie Van Dommelen > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From mosasaur47 at msn.com Wed Dec 29 17:36:39 2004 From: mosasaur47 at msn.com (Kenneth Quinn) Date: Wed Dec 29 15:38:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Madrid earthquakes References: Message-ID: >Ah, is that failed rift under that part of the country, I thought it was >farther west, more under Kansas. Penick in the book I mention in the other >post said it was still a mystery. Maybe just trying to inject some mystery >into his book. Perhaps you are thinking of the Nemaha Ridge, which runs at least from Nebraska to Oklahoma in the deep subsurface and is somewhat active tectonically. Kenneth Quinn --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From arf at mc.net Wed Dec 29 15:55:24 2004 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Wed Dec 29 15:56:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Jack's green rock = quartzite References: <200412280202.iBS22HNC032069@bubbleator.drizzle.com><006401c4ecca$492580c0$97f7a5d8@rock5><001e01c4ecf5$04f193a0$49a4490c@pete><002901c4ed00$52dd6340$c85f70d1@S0033035959> <003001c4ed71$52843560$a7a3490c@pete> Message-ID: <018f01c4ee02$113e3010$c85f70d1@S0033035959> From: "Peter J. Modreski" First of all, thank you and thanks to Al Gore for inventing the internet. > I chipped off and crushed up a big from the paler green, sawn piece that you > sent. Just for the record, I believe I sent two pieces of green material. One was pretty clearly green quartz and not at all like the mystery stone other than the unusual color and that it was found in the same garden. > I see from your past > email that you also said you measured the S.G. of one of the stones and got > 2.66, which matches quartz (ideally 2.65). I measured the S.G. of each of > the two pieces (on a Cent-o-Gram balance I have at home, on which I can > measure the weight while the stone is suspended in water from a thin metal > wire). I got 2.65 and 2.63 for the two pieces..... Nice to know my home made set up seems to work well enough. > Material called aventurine usually > has a sparkly appearance--the "brilliant scales"... Someone sent me a pice of aventurine and the sparkly is quite obvious. He also sent me a piece of Amazonite and the look is very similar. > don't show that much sparkliness, so that may not be the best name for it.) Well, someone said that green quartz is known as prase which came up when I found the other piece I sent to you. Would that fit this one? js PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.com From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 29 17:02:31 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Wed Dec 29 17:03:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Jack's green rock = quartzite References: <200412280202.iBS22HNC032069@bubbleator.drizzle.com><006401c4ecca$492580c0$97f7a5d8@rock5><001e01c4ecf5$04f193a0$49a4490c@pete><002901c4ed00$52dd6340$c85f70d1@S0033035959><003001c4ed71$52843560$a7a3490c@pete> <018f01c4ee02$113e3010$c85f70d1@S0033035959> Message-ID: <007701c4ee0c$95c43aa0$fba4490c@pete> Hi Jack, You sent me (just) two pieces. One was the very pale green (nearly white), sawn piece; that's the one I chipped some off and looked at the fragments. The other was a small, steeply domed cabochon, that you said I should keep as a sample of the material. Just those two! But from what I've seen of the two pieces, and the S.G., I'd say they are both basically the same material, the polished cabochon stone just has more of the green impurity that colors it (probably mica). Thinking it over, yes, I do think that prase would be the right name for this material. Some books specify a specific color for "prase", namely, "leek green", but who's to say exactly what is "leek green". Yes, I think you can go with prase as the best name to describe your material. (Anyone else want to go back and look at the image Jack posted, and say whether you agree that this can reasonably be called prase?) It's definitely not green jasper, which would have an ultra-fine grained (cryptocrystalline) grain structure and be more homogeneous and smooth-textured. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Schmidling" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 4:55 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Jack's green rock = quartzite > From: "Peter J. Modreski" > > First of all, thank you and thanks to Al Gore for inventing the internet. > > > > I chipped off and crushed up a big from the paler green, sawn piece that > you > > sent. > > Just for the record, I believe I sent two pieces of green material. One was > pretty clearly green quartz and not at all like the mystery stone other than > the unusual color and that it was found in the same garden. > > > I see from your past > > email that you also said you measured the S.G. of one of the stones and > got > > 2.66, which matches quartz (ideally 2.65). I measured the S.G. of each of > > the two pieces (on a Cent-o-Gram balance I have at home, on which I can > > measure the weight while the stone is suspended in water from a thin metal > > wire). I got 2.65 and 2.63 for the two pieces..... > > Nice to know my home made set up seems to work well enough. > > > > Material called aventurine usually > > has a sparkly appearance--the "brilliant scales"... > > Someone sent me a pice of aventurine and the sparkly is quite obvious. He > also sent me a piece of Amazonite and the look is very similar. > > > don't show that much sparkliness, so that may not be the best name for > it.) > > Well, someone said that green quartz is known as prase which came up when I > found the other piece I sent to you. Would that fit this one? > > js > > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.com From geenet2 at mchsi.com Wed Dec 29 17:36:21 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Wed Dec 29 17:37:10 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! References: <41CF1F99.1070903@xs4all.nl><006b01c4eb8e$4f118c50$8e91fea9@Namibiaminerals><41CF34D9.4010007@xs4all.nl> <003a01c4ebd7$83a45ee0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <1104342624.2802.35.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <007101c4ee0f$f7c7c0c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Way to go, John! A complete little ditty about our "star" of the list. Hope his head doesn't get too big from all the accolades. Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! > On Sun, 2004-12-26 at 23:47, Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > > Ok, poets out there...... > > > > Finish this ode to Axel... > > > > "When you wish upon a star....." > > > > 1. "Could be Axel from afar.... > > > When you wish upon a star > Think of Axel in a bar > Holding forth to one and all > What a marvel! What a ball! > Turn that 'scope a little right > And tell your friends what you have seen > The steady shining little light > Of Asteroid One-Fifty-Five-Thirteen. > > What you see is not what you get > I belong to yet another set > Think of where I am tonight > Floating nearly out of sight > In manly orbit round the sun > A journey not so lightly done. > I will add upon your wish > My own to your desire > That all and sundry, near and far > Want only good from this...little star > > > > > john > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockcurrier at cs.com Wed Dec 29 18:17:02 2004 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Wed Dec 29 18:07:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meaningfull locality data in perspective References: <200412291623.iBTGNEhp027451@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <004801c4ee15$a6b5c230$6901a8c0@rock3> Yes I realize that the reason that much good mineralogical descriptive data is lost because there is just not enough room in magazines or books to accommodate it. Sometimes the authors of the articles simply don't know about it or have written the article to pump up some material they have for sale and are not interested in comparing it in any objective manner to other specimens of the same species from other localities. Also, the space in conventional publications (hard copy) for pictures is quite limited, almost all articles and books never present a rounded picture of what is available from a locality. Even when they do, information on what the best specimens look like is missing and left to the imagination of the reader. Also, there is rarely information about how much material has been found. Usually the locality articles are written by individuals who are in love with the localities and want to make the locality look as good as possible, so objectivity suffers. I know I have certainly been guilty of this pardonable sin. Often the localities are ancient and no record was kept of what the mine produced in the way of specimens and there is no one left alive today that has that kind of information. So we go through life picking up bits and pieces of specimen lore, struggling to put in perspective the quality of those specimens we have in our collections and see in others. It is a painful process. Typically we see a specimen we like and buy it, only to discover later that it was not as good as we thought and is in fact not very good at all. In addition to all that, new localities come along and completely put in the shade the specimens from old localities. When this happens, the old descriptive information, is still there in the literature to beguile collectors of future generations and mislead them. A fine example of this is contained in the 4th edition of the Dana Textbook of Mineralogy. It describes "...large crystals found in the mercury mines of New Almaden..." . When you track the reference back it to the original article in and 1880s American Journal of Science article it says that they were up to 2 cm. Of course there is no one in California that I can find that has ever seen any of these and even if they had, 2 cm apophyllites today are not very exciting. The literature of today is full of similar descriptions. Well, we are not limited today to publishing on paper and the cost of publishing electronically, even that of images, is but a tiny fraction of the cost of hard copy material and the cost of electronic storage is continuing to drop. The futrue of all literature is going to be electronic rather than hard copy based. I was told by a professor at the California Institute of Technology that almost all the references sited in students in papers that they wrote for his classes were internet references. We just can't quite trust the media yet, and perhaps justifiably, like the comment wondering about the permanance of mindat. I got a nice reply from the guy who runs min dat out of England and he makes no money on it but does it as a labor of love. He makes a living designing web sights and says it helps him sell his services because prospective clients can look at something he has designed and that helps sales. It would not be very much work for him to add the fields needed to describe all manner of things relating to minerals or localities with space for related images as well. He says that people ocasionally make small donations that help pay for some of the computers, etc to help keep the site running. What is needed of course is for us (mineral collectors, dealers, curators etc) to cough up enough money either by donations or subscriptions to have mindat or some other website create the necessary fields to record the data we would like to preserve and then encourage all collectors to contribute data (peer reviewed probably) that goes into the fields. This means enough money to pay a full time individual to oversee the operation, make changes to the database when needed an to supervise data entry. Idealy I supose we would like to see a professional organization like the IMA take over and run the site. It if was done in the USA, the cost of a full time professional would be at least $50 K a year plus the cost of office space, utilities, a computer, broad band connection etc which would probably cost another $20K per year. Say $75K per year. OK how do we raise the money. If it was done in a country with lower wages like Russia, India or China, the cost of labor would be a lot cheaper. But we shoud probably figure on setting it up in an English speaking country like Canada, England or the USA and should probably go with the higher labor cost. Would you be willing to cough up $10 per month to use mindat? $5 per month? $100 per year? if you could get from it what you get now for free plus detailed descriptions of what the best minerals from most mineral localities looked like and how they compared to others of their kind? Rock From william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu Wed Dec 29 17:18:04 2004 From: william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu (William Cordua) Date: Wed Dec 29 18:10:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Madrid earthquakes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The rift under the New Madrid area is the Reelfoot Rift, and is of a different age than the Mid-continental Rift System. Why it is still active is a mystery, though, which m,akes earthquake prediction in that area very difficult. Just finished reading a book by Office and Page, called "The Big One" which was also about the New Madrid region and the birth of seismology. Good book. Happy New Year! Dr. Bill on 12/29/04 4:17 PM, J Bryan Kramer at jbryankramer@msn.com wrote: > Ah, is that failed rift under that part of the country, I thought it was > farther west, more under Kansas. Penick in the book I mention in the other > post said it was still a mystery. Maybe just trying to inject some mystery > into his book. > > Bryan > > -------Original Message----- > -- > --Mystery? There is no mystery. The New Madrid fault zone is > --part of the mid > --continent rift system. It was formed in the Precambrian (~700 > --m.y.a.) and is > --still active today. It is thought that the earthquakes in > --1811 - 12 occur > --about every 500 or so years. Those periodic earthquakes and > --tsunamis that > --occurred when the continent was under shallow seas (i.e., > --Cambrian - Upper > --Mississippian) could have caused a lot of the so called > --tempestites and > --created things like the Crawfordsville crinoid beds. > --(Combined with the more > --mundane hurricanes and tropical storms.) > -- > --Although the rift is no longer active, I read somewhere that > --the continental > --ocean sediments (and later the Mississippi River) would > --continue to add > --sediments in the rift valley over time. As a result of sediment being > --deposited for such a long time, some 20,000 feet of sediment > --has covered the > --original structure and the weight of all that sediment keeps > --the faults > --moving - greasing the wheel so to speak. Since I'm not a > --geophysicist, I can > --only regurgitate info that I read. > -- > --There are some excellent books on the New Madrid Quakes, > --including some > --great stories from eye witnesses (like John James Audubon). > --Visit Reelfoot > --Lake in Tennessee - that was created by the shifting of land > --under the > --Mississippi! > -- > --Alan > -- > -- > ------- Original Message ----- > --From: "J Bryan Kramer" > --To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > --collectors'" > -- > --Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 8:33 PM > --Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake > -- > -- > --> The New Madrid mid-plate earthquake series had at least > --three of the > --> four quakes around the high 8's and low 9's, the third quake is > --> supposedly just below The 1960 Chile event in magnitude. > --The cause of > --> the New Madrid quakes is still a mystery. > --> > --> The 1755 Lisbon earthquake was estimated to be around > --magnitude 9 and > --> generated tsunamis as well. So there are examples of big > --quakes away > --> from the Pacific rim. > --> > --> Bryan > --> > --> -------Original Message----- > --> -- > --> -- > --> --Not only that, a magnitude ~9 earthquake occurs only a > --few --times > --> in a --century. All the >9 quakes except for one in the 20th century > --> --occurred in > --> --the northern Pacific, the other in the Chile. > --> -- > --> --1960 Chile 9.5 > --> --1964 Alaska 9.2 > --> --1957 Alaska 9.1 > --> --1952 Kamchatka 9 > --> -- > --> --By far not all quakes trigger a tsunami. For this to happen the > --> --epicenter has to be in the sea and the seafloor must > --> --experience a sudden > --> --move upward. So a magnitude 9 quake is pretty rare, a 9-er > --> --that poduced > --> --a giant tsunami is more rare and having it in the Indian Ocean is > --> --something nobody could foresee. > --> -- > --> --What I do agree with Brenda is that common sense did not always > --> --prevail.After a full day of coverage on CNN and other media > --> --Somalia got > --> --hit. Still many people fell victim on the beaches. local > --authorities > --> --should have seen it comming and at least place warning signs. Then > --> --again, Somalia does not have much of a government at the moment. > --> -- > --> --cheers, > --> --Maurice > --> -- > --> -- > --> -- > --> -- > --> -- > --> -- > --> -- > --> --Richard Trapp wrote: > --> -- > --> --> Actually there was a discussion of this on NPR this morning. > --> --> > --> --> Short story: At this time they believe tsunamis occur in the > --> --> Indian Ocean on the order of one every FEW HUNDRED years, > --> -- > --> -- > --> --_______________________________________________ > --> --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > --> --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > --> --Subscription Services: > --> --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --> -- > --> > --> _______________________________________________ > --> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > --> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > --> Subscription Services: > --> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --> > -- > -- > --_______________________________________________ > --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > --Subscription Services: > --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > -- > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Dec 29 18:11:18 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Dec 29 18:11:15 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] postscript about tsunami warnings References: Message-ID: <41D363BB.155F@Tomaszewski.net> c) a significant collapse of a seamount side I think there may also be a d) from a substantial drop in the ocean floor. Kreigh Axel Emmermann wrote: > > Hi Pete, > > if I recall right (SSP... Standard Safety Phrase ;-)), a tsunami occurs only > when: > a) the ocean floor is lifted over a substantial distance. The water above it > is lifted too and this generates the tsunami. > b) a large amount of land or ice slides in the sea or ocean. > > Cheers > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Peter J. Modreski > Verzonden: woensdag 29 december 2004 18:41 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > CC: pmodresk@usgs.gov > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] postscript about tsunami warnings > > A followup to our discussions about this, I just sought out the website of > the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center, > http://www.prh.noaa.gov/pr/ptwc/ > > and looked at their archive of recent tsunami bulletins, which is at > http://www.prh.noaa.gov/ptwc/olderwmsg > > The comment has been made that anyone from these other Asian countries could > have looked at the warnings sent out by the existing PTWC network and known > of a likely tsunami threat; as well as the USGS earthquake notices which are > sent by email to anyone, and been reasonably informed of the danger. This > is partly true; however, as you'll see from these bulletins which I've > copied below, the threat was underrated in them, and a Dec. 23 mag. 7.9 > earthquake between Australia and New Zealand, which apparently did not > produce any significant tsunami, generated a more serious-sounding warning > than did the Sumatra earthquake. Part of the problem evidently was that the > preliminary magnitude assigned to the Sumatra quake was only 8.0, which was > subsequently (an hour later) upgraded to 8.5, still an underestimate. The > times given in these bulletins are Universal (Greenwich) time. > > Compare the Sumatra bulletins to the 23 Dec one for Macquarie Island (AU-NZ > region). Note that the first bulletin issued, at 1:14 Dec. 26 (15 minutes > after the earthquake occurred at 0:59), makes it sound like there is no > threat. The second one, issued 50 minutes later at 2:04, has only one line > with a warning, which sounds less emphatic than the 23 Dec one did. There > were no other update bulletins issued until Dec. 27. > > Pete > > TSUNAMI BULLETIN NUMBER 001 > PACIFIC TSUNAMI WARNING CENTER/NOAA/NWS > ISSUED AT 1519Z 23 DEC 2004 > > THIS BULLETIN IS FOR ALL AREAS OF THE PACIFIC BASIN EXCEPT > ALASKA - BRITISH COLUMBIA - WASHINGTON - OREGON - CALIFORNIA. > > .................. TSUNAMI INFORMATION BULLETIN .................. > > THIS MESSAGE IS FOR INFORMATION ONLY. THERE IS NO TSUNAMI WARNING > OR WATCH IN EFFECT. > > AN EARTHQUAKE HAS OCCURRED WITH THESE PRELIMINARY PARAMETERS > > ORIGIN TIME - 1459Z 23 DEC 2004 > COORDINATES - 50.1 SOUTH 161.1 EAST > LOCATION - NORTH OF MACQUARIE ISLAND > MAGNITUDE - 7.9 > > EVALUATION > > THIS EARTHQUAKE IS LOCATED OUTSIDE THE PACIFIC. NO TSUNAMI THREAT > EXISTS TO COASTLINES IN THE PACIFIC. > > HOWEVER - THIS EARTHQUAKE HAS THE POTENTIAL TO GENERATE A WIDELY > DESTRUCTIVE TSUNAMI IN THE SEA NEAR THE EARTHQUAKE. AUTHORITIES > IN THAT REGION SHOULD BE AWARE OF THIS POSSIBILITY. > > THIS WILL BE THE ONLY BULLETIN ISSUED FOR THIS EVENT UNLESS > ADDITIONAL INFORMATION BECOMES AVAILABLE. > > ************************************************************** > > TSUNAMI BULLETIN NUMBER 001 > PACIFIC TSUNAMI WARNING CENTER/NOAA/NWS > ISSUED AT 0114Z 26 DEC 2004 > > THIS BULLETIN IS FOR ALL AREAS OF THE PACIFIC BASIN EXCEPT > ALASKA - BRITISH COLUMBIA - WASHINGTON - OREGON - CALIFORNIA. > > .................. TSUNAMI INFORMATION BULLETIN .................. > > THIS MESSAGE IS FOR INFORMATION ONLY. THERE IS NO TSUNAMI WARNING > OR WATCH IN EFFECT. > > AN EARTHQUAKE HAS OCCURRED WITH THESE PRELIMINARY PARAMETERS > > ORIGIN TIME - 0059Z 26 DEC 2004 > COORDINATES - 3.4 NORTH 95.7 EAST > LOCATION - OFF W COAST OF NORTHERN SUMATERA > MAGNITUDE - 8.0 > > EVALUATION > > THIS EARTHQUAKE IS LOCATED OUTSIDE THE PACIFIC. NO DESTRUCTIVE > TSUNAMI THREAT EXISTS BASED ON HISTORICAL EARTHQUAKE AND TSUNAMI > DATA. > > THIS WILL BE THE ONLY BULLETIN ISSUED FOR THIS EVENT UNLESS > ADDITIONAL INFORMATION BECOMES AVAILABLE. > > ************************************************************** > > TSUNAMI BULLETIN NUMBER 002 > PACIFIC TSUNAMI WARNING CENTER/NOAA/NWS > ISSUED AT 0204Z 26 DEC 2004 > > THIS BULLETIN IS FOR ALL AREAS OF THE PACIFIC BASIN EXCEPT > ALASKA - BRITISH COLUMBIA - WASHINGTON - OREGON - CALIFORNIA. > > ................. TSUNAMI INFORMATION BULLETIN .................. > > ATTENTION: NOTE REVISED MAGNITUDE. > > THIS MESSAGE IS FOR INFORMATION ONLY. THERE IS NO TSUNAMI WARNING > OR WATCH IN EFFECT. > > AN EARTHQUAKE HAS OCCURRED WITH THESE PRELIMINARY PARAMETERS > > ORIGIN TIME - 0059Z 26 DEC 2004 > COORDINATES - 3.4 NORTH 95.7 EAST > LOCATION - OFF W COAST OF NORTHERN SUMATERA > MAGNITUDE - 8.5 > > EVALUATION > REVISED MAGNITUDE BASED ON ANALYSIS OF MANTLE WAVES. > THIS EARTHQUAKE IS LOCATED OUTSIDE THE PACIFIC. NO DESTRUCTIVE > TSUNAMI THREAT EXISTS FOR THE PACIFIC BASIN BASED ON HISTORICAL > EARTHQUAKE AND TSUNAMI DATA. > > THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY OF A TSUNAMI NEAR THE EPICENTER. > > THIS WILL BE THE ONLY BULLETIN ISSUED FOR THIS EVENT UNLESS > ADDITIONAL INFORMATION BECOMES AVAILABLE. > > THE WEST COAST/ALASKA TSUNAMI WARNING CENTER WILL ISSUE BULLETINS > FOR ALASKA - BRITISH COLUMBIA - WASHINGTON - OREGON - CALIFORNIA. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Wed Dec 29 18:15:42 2004 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn's Mail) Date: Wed Dec 29 18:15:42 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Madrid earthquakes References: Message-ID: <00ef01c4ee15$76f729d0$6601a8c0@GlennWimpee> Just a few months ago we had a geologist speak at a Mobile R&GS club metting. The New Madrid fault is definitely "dormant" and overdue for a major event! Many buildings are now being built like those near the San Andreas fault, especially hospitals and other emergency facilities. The 1811/1812 event was documented to have been felt over the entire eastern U.S. It changed surface features along the Mississippi for hundreds of miles! From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Dec 29 18:43:47 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Dec 29 18:43:38 2004 Subject: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! References: Message-ID: <41D36B53.2FB9@Tomaszewski.net> > What you see is not what you get http://www.startrekvoyager.com/viewtopic.php?t=15513 Now there is a ship that might let you go collecting on your asteroid. Kreigh Axel Emmermann wrote: > > Not half bad ;-)))) > Differenc ebetween me and the rock is that you don't need a scope to see me. > Better of with a fisheye lens ;-))) > > Cheers > > "Rocky" Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens john > Verzonden: woensdag 29 december 2004 18:51 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! > > On Sun, 2004-12-26 at 23:47, Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > > Ok, poets out there...... > > > > Finish this ode to Axel... > > > > "When you wish upon a star....." > > > > 1. "Could be Axel from afar.... > > When you wish upon a star > Think of Axel in a bar > Holding forth to one and all > What a marvel! What a ball! > Turn that 'scope a little right > And tell your friends what you have seen > The steady shining little light > Of Asteroid One-Fifty-Five-Thirteen. > > What you see is not what you get > I belong to yet another set > Think of where I am tonight > Floating nearly out of sight > In manly orbit round the sun > A journey not so lightly done. > I will add upon your wish > My own to your desire > That all and sundry, near and far > Want only good from this...little star > > john From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Wed Dec 29 18:45:23 2004 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn's Mail) Date: Wed Dec 29 18:48:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Madrid earthquakes References: Message-ID: <00fe01c4ee19$9c928e60$6601a8c0@GlennWimpee> Speaking of seismographic sensors, the Chinese had one type thousands of years ago. Intricate large stone (OT) sculptures were made and spheres of rock (OT) would vibrate, roll off various perches, and indicate the severity of a quake by the number of spheres that fell. From jbryankramer at msn.com Wed Dec 29 18:51:03 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Dec 29 18:51:10 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Madrid earthquakes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Actually that was the book I read, couldn't recall the title and took a guess, wrong, off Amazon. Bryan -------Original Message----- -- --The rift under the New Madrid area is the Reelfoot Rift, and --is of a different age than the Mid-continental Rift System. --Why it is still active is a mystery, though, which m,akes --earthquake prediction in that area very difficult. Just --finished reading a book by Office and Page, called "The Big --One" which was also about the New Madrid region and the birth --of seismology. Good book. -- --Happy New Year! -- --Dr. Bill -- -- -- -- --on 12/29/04 4:17 PM, J Bryan Kramer at jbryankramer@msn.com wrote: -- --> Ah, is that failed rift under that part of the country, I --thought it --> was farther west, more under Kansas. Penick in the book I --mention in --> the other post said it was still a mystery. Maybe just trying to --> inject some mystery into his book. --> --> Bryan --> --> -------Original Message----- --> -- --> --Mystery? There is no mystery. The New Madrid fault zone --is --part of --> the mid --continent rift system. It was formed in the Precambrian --> (~700 --> --m.y.a.) and is --> --still active today. It is thought that the earthquakes in --> --1811 - 12 occur --> --about every 500 or so years. Those periodic earthquakes and --> --tsunamis that --> --occurred when the continent was under shallow seas (i.e., --> --Cambrian - Upper --> --Mississippian) could have caused a lot of the so called --> --tempestites and --> --created things like the Crawfordsville crinoid beds. --> --(Combined with the more --> --mundane hurricanes and tropical storms.) --> -- --> --Although the rift is no longer active, I read somewhere that --> --the continental --> --ocean sediments (and later the Mississippi River) would --> --continue to add --> --sediments in the rift valley over time. As a result of --sediment being --> --deposited for such a long time, some 20,000 feet of sediment --> --has covered the --> --original structure and the weight of all that sediment keeps --> --the faults --> --moving - greasing the wheel so to speak. Since I'm not a --> --geophysicist, I can --> --only regurgitate info that I read. --> -- --> --There are some excellent books on the New Madrid Quakes, --> --including some --> --great stories from eye witnesses (like John James Audubon). --> --Visit Reelfoot --> --Lake in Tennessee - that was created by the shifting of land --> --under the --> --Mississippi! --> -- --> --Alan --> -- --> -- --> ------- Original Message ----- --> --From: "J Bryan Kramer" --> --To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem --> --collectors'" --> -- --> --Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 8:33 PM --> --Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake --> -- --> -- --> --> The New Madrid mid-plate earthquake series had at least --> --three of the --> --> four quakes around the high 8's and low 9's, the third quake is --> --> supposedly just below The 1960 Chile event in magnitude. --> --The cause of --> --> the New Madrid quakes is still a mystery. --> --> --> --> The 1755 Lisbon earthquake was estimated to be around --> --magnitude 9 and --> --> generated tsunamis as well. So there are examples of big --> --quakes away --> --> from the Pacific rim. --> --> --> --> Bryan --> --> --> --> -------Original Message----- --> --> -- --> --> -- --> --> --Not only that, a magnitude ~9 earthquake occurs only a --> --few --times --> --> in a --century. All the >9 quakes except for one in the 20th --> --> century --occurred in --the northern Pacific, the other in the --> --> Chile. --> --> -- --> --> --1960 Chile 9.5 --> --> --1964 Alaska 9.2 --> --> --1957 Alaska 9.1 --> --> --1952 Kamchatka 9 --> --> -- --> --> --By far not all quakes trigger a tsunami. For this to --happen the --> --> --epicenter has to be in the sea and the seafloor must --> --> --experience a sudden --move upward. So a magnitude 9 quake is --> --> pretty rare, a 9-er --that poduced --> --> --a giant tsunami is more rare and having it in the --Indian Ocean is --> --> --something nobody could foresee. --> --> -- --> --> --What I do agree with Brenda is that common sense did --not always --> --> --prevail.After a full day of coverage on CNN and other media --> --> --Somalia got --> --> --hit. Still many people fell victim on the beaches. local --> --authorities --> --> --should have seen it comming and at least place warning signs. --> --> Then --again, Somalia does not have much of a government at the --> --> moment. --> --> -- --> --> --cheers, --> --> --Maurice --> --> -- --> --> -- --> --> -- --> --> -- --> --> -- --> --> -- --> --> -- --> --> --Richard Trapp wrote: --> --> -- --> --> --> Actually there was a discussion of this on NPR this morning. --> --> --> --> --> --> Short story: At this time they believe tsunamis --occur in the --> --> --> Indian Ocean on the order of one every FEW HUNDRED years, --> --> -- --> --> -- --> --> --_______________________________________________ --> --> --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --> --> --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --> --> --Subscription Services: --> --> --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --> --> -- --> --> --> --> _______________________________________________ --> --> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --> --> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --> --> Subscription Services: --> --> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --> --> --> -- --> -- --> --_______________________________________________ --> --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --> --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --> --Subscription Services: --> --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --> -- --> --> _______________________________________________ --> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --> Subscription Services: --> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --> -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Dec 29 19:11:57 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Dec 29 19:11:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meaningfull locality data in perspective References: <200412291623.iBTGNEhp027451@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <004801c4ee15$a6b5c230$6901a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: <41D371E9.180D@Tomaszewski.net> Rock, A common format for commercially successful websites is to offer a good free service, and a great subscription service. Many blatently show what is missing in the free service with a link to subscribe. The key seems to be keeping the cost low enough per subscriber to make money from low volume users of the service (and eat the high volume users -- or make a premium service). A few bucks a month for a much better MinDat or WebMineral would certainly be acceptable (and might make it self-sustaining). Kreigh Rock Currier wrote: > > Yes I realize that the reason that much good mineralogical descriptive data > is lost because there is just not enough room in magazines or books to > accommodate it. Sometimes the authors of the articles simply don't know > about it or have written the article to pump up some material they have for > sale and are not interested in comparing it in any objective manner to other > specimens of the same species from other localities. Also, the space in > conventional publications (hard copy) for pictures is quite limited, almost > all articles and books never present a rounded picture of what is available > from a locality. Even when they do, information on what the best specimens > look like is missing and left to the imagination of the reader. Also, there > is rarely information about how much material has been found. Usually the > locality articles are written by individuals who are in love with the > localities and want to make the locality look as good as possible, so > objectivity suffers. I know I have certainly been guilty of this pardonable > sin. Often the localities are ancient and no record was kept of what the > mine produced in the way of specimens and there is no one left alive today > that has that kind of information. So we go through life picking up bits and > pieces of specimen lore, struggling to put in perspective the quality of > those specimens we have in our collections and see in others. It is a > painful process. Typically we see a specimen we like and buy it, only to > discover later that it was not as good as we thought and is in fact not very > good at all. In addition to all that, new localities come along and > completely put in the shade the specimens from old localities. When this > happens, the old descriptive information, is still there in the literature > to beguile collectors of future generations and mislead them. A fine example > of this is contained in the 4th edition of the Dana Textbook of Mineralogy. > It describes "...large crystals found in the mercury mines of New > Almaden..." . When you track the reference back it to the original article > in and 1880s American Journal of Science article it says that they were up > to 2 cm. Of course there is no one in California that I can find that has > ever seen any of these and even if they had, 2 cm apophyllites today are not > very exciting. The literature of today is full of similar descriptions. > Well, we are not limited today to publishing on paper and the cost of > publishing electronically, even that of images, is but a tiny fraction of > the cost of hard copy material and the cost of electronic storage is > continuing to drop. The futrue of all literature is going to be electronic > rather than hard copy based. I was told by a professor at the California > Institute of Technology that almost all the references sited in students in > papers that they wrote for his classes were internet references. We just > can't quite trust the media yet, and perhaps justifiably, like the comment > wondering about the permanance of mindat. I got a nice reply from the guy > who runs min dat out of England and he makes no money on it but does it as a > labor of love. He makes a living designing web sights and says it helps him > sell his services because prospective clients can look at something he has > designed and that helps sales. It would not be very much work for him to add > the fields needed to describe all manner of things relating to minerals or > localities with space for related images as well. He says that people > ocasionally make small donations that help pay for some of the computers, > etc to help keep the site running. What is needed of course is for us > (mineral collectors, dealers, curators etc) to cough up enough money either > by donations or subscriptions to have mindat or some other website create > the necessary fields to record the data we would like to preserve and then > encourage all collectors to contribute data (peer reviewed probably) that > goes into the fields. This means enough money to pay a full time individual > to oversee the operation, make changes to the database when needed an to > supervise data entry. > Idealy I supose we would like to see a professional organization like > the IMA take over and run the site. It if was done in the USA, the cost of a > full time professional would be at least $50 K a year plus the cost of > office space, utilities, a computer, broad band connection etc which would > probably cost another $20K per year. Say $75K per year. OK how do we raise > the money. If it was done in a country with lower wages like Russia, India > or China, the cost of labor would be a lot cheaper. But we shoud probably > figure on setting it up in an English speaking country like Canada, England > or the USA and should probably go with the higher labor cost. Would you be > willing to cough up $10 per month to use mindat? $5 per month? $100 per > year? if you could get from it what you get now for free plus detailed > descriptions of what the best minerals from most mineral localities looked > like and how they compared to others of their kind? > Rock > From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Wed Dec 29 19:16:12 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Wed Dec 29 19:16:20 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Madrid earthquakes References: <00ef01c4ee15$76f729d0$6601a8c0@GlennWimpee> Message-ID: <009001c4ee1d$eae5af80$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Yes, that's right it was the Reelfoot rift. It is seismically active, in that there are many 1 - 2.5 mag. quakes in the rift area. Some geologists claim that evidence points to a frequency of about 500 years, meaning it could be around 2300 when the next big one occurs. Of course, they can't predict any quakes today. In another 100 years, who knows what technology will advance to? At the very least, there should be tsunami warning systems worldwide. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn's Mail" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 9:15 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New Madrid earthquakes > Just a few months ago we had a geologist speak at a Mobile R&GS club > metting. > The New Madrid fault is definitely "dormant" and overdue for a major > event! > Many buildings are now being built like those near the San Andreas fault, > especially hospitals and other emergency facilities. > The 1811/1812 event was documented to have been felt over the entire > eastern > U.S. > It changed surface features along the Mississippi for hundreds of miles! From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Dec 29 19:27:05 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Dec 29 19:26:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Madrid earthquakes References: <00fe01c4ee19$9c928e60$6601a8c0@GlennWimpee> Message-ID: <41D37574.5FB8@Tomaszewski.net> Glenn's Mail wrote: > > Speaking of seismographic sensors, the Chinese had one type thousands of > years ago. > Intricate large stone (OT) sculptures were made and spheres of rock (OT) > would vibrate, roll off various perches, and indicate the severity of a > quake by the number of spheres that fell. > A similar principal is used in making gas (water {and sewage}) valves that close in the event of an earthquake above a certain magnitude. They have a sphere on a mount above the outflow; an earthquake knocks off the sphere to block the fluid flow (resettable via a chain attached to the sphere). They were invented around 75 years ago. Kreigh From corndogs at charter.net Wed Dec 29 20:06:09 2004 From: corndogs at charter.net (Brenda LaCroix) Date: Wed Dec 29 20:06:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] INCREDIBLY INTERESTING!!! Message-ID: <018501c4ee24$e61a67a0$4e887644@dit03r92qai5fx> OK, I just watched the Primetime Special on the Tsunami..... The closing comment was about wild life - the first I had heard about animals, so of course, I was very interested to hear what he had to say - and he said that the Government of Sri Lanka has reported NO CORPSES OF WILD LIFE I don't know if that is covering domestic dogs and cats - which I can't imagine that it is, because there must be some of those that were caught in houses and had to have died. But the wild life is what is sooooooooooooo interesting. These are places that must be covered with birds and monkeys and all kinds of things. They have a sense that we don't pay attention to.....because we have it to, of course, since we are all mammals in the basic sense. I think this just proves it :-) I just thought I would mention this.....any comments?!?! Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, NE CornDogs@Charter.net Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From folmstead at rcn.com Wed Dec 29 21:27:46 2004 From: folmstead at rcn.com (Fred Olmstead) Date: Wed Dec 29 21:10:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] rock formations In-Reply-To: <3k70mg$joqmtu@mxip15a.cluster1.charter.net> References: <3k70mg$joqmtu@mxip15a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <41D391D2.7010601@rcn.com> I think that it was in U.S.A. Today that I read that 'some people' were checking out the (unusual?) rock formationson the ocean floor when the water receded 600 feet.... thinking that cause of the tide going out was from the full moon..... Others did not realize the significance and were curious... so came down to see. I remember several years ago when I was living in Monterey, California - I do not recall the year - late 50's or early 60's - several people WENT TO THE BEACH to see a possible Tsunami that was predicted.... GeorgiaO > > > From jemstone at amug.org Wed Dec 29 21:48:53 2004 From: jemstone at amug.org (John McLaughlin) Date: Wed Dec 29 21:48:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS question References: <20041227142258.64297.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com> <001601c4ec23$b181c9a0$56a3490c@pete> Message-ID: <003601c4ee33$3f4c6310$f25a2741@MCWIDOM> Your comments below, Pete, are the reasons I retired my basic Garmin Etrex and bought the Garmin GPSmap 60C. The advantage is that to get to a new location I can lay out the route on my home computer screen on the Garmin topo map. Layout is as simple as clicking on the road on the map. Each click is a new waypoint. It's pretty easy to determine where you want to go sitting at home looking at a map, rather than in the field with three roads forking off in roughly the same direction, one of which is not on the map. The download process takes about two seconds. I no longer have to print out the 1:24,000 topos, other than for the specific collecting location. All that waypoint entry work done to program a route on the basic units is history with the mapping unit. I have been using it to get to remote locations in a state that has an enormous number of mining, prospecting, ranching, grazing range, logging and recreational roads. The easy routing process is a real time saver and very accurate. My frequent collecting partner is a land surveyor and public lands real estate specialist for a Federal agency. He is wedded to range and townships and can smell a corner marker from 100 yards, but on our last trip he just held the unit and said things like "we have a right turn coming up and then a hard left up a hill." He finally dropped the paper topo and just read off the screen (which showed the 1:100,000 topo). The bread crumb tracking feature is useful when you are prospecting on foot. There are places in Arizona where the terrain is very broken and where one place can look very much like everywhere else for a few miles around. While I usually have mountains to take my bearings on, setting the unit to create thirty or forty waypoints per mile is very helpful. You have a detailed path back to your starting point. With the basic unit you know where you started, but not where you finally found a crossing for a steep arroyo or a way down a sheer drop. Plus, the batteries last for 30 hours in the new unit vs about 3 in the basic unit. To me, there was as much difference going from the basic Etrex to the 60C as there was going from no GPS unit to the Etrex. On Sunday I'm leading a field trip to the Anderson Mine in Yavapai County - a long way from pavement and over some pretty bad roads. I have only been there once and that was years ago. The route and the area topo maps are downloaded into my Garmin and I'll have no problem at all navigating to the mine. Flat tires, soft sand, folks that have little four wheeling experience - those are different issues. John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona From: "Peter J. Modreski" > > I myself have an older, basic Garmin GPS that doesn't contain maps or do > any > of the fancier things. In using it, a difficulty in making its > information > useful is that it's not a lot of help (except in finding your way back to > your starting point, and knowing which compass direction you're moving) > unless you've already got locations with coordinates, calculated and > written > down or stored on your unit. > > I find that a "most useful" thing to do is to go online in advance and > print > out a map from Topozone, with a geographic point that you want to reach (a > mountain summit, or an old mine) highlighted & with its lat. & long., or > UTM > coordinates, printed out. Then, you know the coordinates you want to get > to. Of course, having a CD or a printout giving coordinates of the sites > (such as old mines) in the vicinity you're exploring, with you, is what > would be really helpful--such as the MAS/MILS CD (which to be honest, is > not > something I yet have a copy of). Even if you're out in the field and have > a > topo map in front of you, and have your GPS giving your location, it's not > very easy to plot it on the paper topo map--unless you're all prepared > with > a good flat desk surface, a long straightedge and ruler, a pocket > calculator, etc. As a general rule, the UTM coordinates are easier to > transfer to and from a map than lat. & long. are. Some newer USGS topo > maps > have the complete UTM grid printed on the map--that makes it very easy; > older maps don't, they just have tick marks along the edges, not as > convenient, so then you have to physically draw straight N-S and E-W > pencil > lines across the length and width of the map, to be able to easily > estimate > between them. It's a big help to have computed the coordinates in > advance, > or have them from MapQuest or from a CD. > > I'm sure that using one of those advanced memory GPS units with the maps > stored in it, is a HUGE help in navigating around the countryside. > > best of luck, > Pete From folmstead at rcn.com Wed Dec 29 22:30:31 2004 From: folmstead at rcn.com (Fred Olmstead) Date: Wed Dec 29 22:15:31 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earth rotation In-Reply-To: <41D391D2.7010601@rcn.com> References: <3k70mg$joqmtu@mxip15a.cluster1.charter.net> <41D391D2.7010601@rcn.com> Message-ID: <41D3A087.9030805@rcn.com> On TV News permanently altered Earth rotation / days shortened moved island to new location GeorgiaO > From rockhound at btinternet.com Thu Dec 30 00:56:24 2004 From: rockhound at btinternet.com (rockhound) Date: Thu Dec 30 00:56:31 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Eastern United States Tsunami imminent Message-ID: <002701c4ee4d$71126560$0100a8c0@Shabon01> I am not aware of what is shown on US television, so don't know if this is news to any of our American members out there, but the Eastern Seabord of the US of A is due to be hit by a major Tsunami. In geological and even historical timescales, one side of the Island of Tenerife is looking particularly ropey, and when it stops hanging on, not only will the island change, but there will likely be a trunami generated when it slides into the sea. There is an existing fault running through the island, and the magma chamber is still active. We here in the UK could also suffer somewhat, but just imagine is something like the Asian Tsunami clouted some of our modern westren cities unannounced and definitely uninvited. I would imagine many subway systems inundated and the loss of life there alone would be huge. I digress, this is just a Tsunami early warning notice. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Thu Dec 30 04:52:23 2004 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Thu Dec 30 04:52:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] postscript about tsunami warnings In-Reply-To: <41D363BB.155F@Tomaszewski.net> References: <41D363BB.155F@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <41D3FA07.9050607@xs4all.nl> Just a small fact that illustrates the power of a magnitude 9 quake. The seimological station here in the Netherlands measured a ground movement overhere of 4 millimeters! The quake was not felt here of course, but that was only because the 4mm earth movement took place in 20 seconds, so the accelleration was low. I find it astonishing that half way around the planet there is still so much movement in the crust. Cheers, Maurice From newryqs at rochester.rr.com Thu Dec 30 06:19:41 2004 From: newryqs at rochester.rr.com (Van) Date: Thu Dec 30 06:20:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock's thread - online research References: <200412291623.iBTGNEhp027451@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <004801c4ee15$a6b5c230$6901a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: <002901c4ee7a$9a5132d0$6601a8c0@nathanqa8gl7gx> Always read your threads, because you have plenty to say rather than one sentence comments. Split this one off so that the flames about paying for internet services didn't overwhelm this part of your comments I'd like to chime in about internet information. I've found some great historical information on the internet and am joining the masses in their twitter about having entire libraries online (for a fee) and each book searchable online. The comments I have deal with specialization. The contents of these libraries is certainly wonderful, but as a frequent user of one of the targeted libraries, I know that my research interests will be far down the line of their priorities as I have in my library references they would never dream of owning. I did like that one of the libraries had a run of the New York Sun newspaper on microfilm so I could track down the article that George Howe wrote when he was a young reporter, about raising money for General/President Grant's tomb. (George Howe you will remember is the one who first used the term watermelon tourmaline in August, 1910.) I recently subscribed to an online microfilm to OCR service which was great even if the coverage was lousey. Tracked down contemporary articles about Elijah and Augustus Hamlin and even located some info on some of the miners who lived in the shadows. Located a reference to rubellite being found "recently" in California in an 1883 newspaper. The problem with the database is that the microfilm was flawed. [If you've ever tried to read the 1824 Oxford Observer (currently only available at three libraries in the world) to find when Elijah Hamlin first wrote about his tourmaline discoveries, you'll also discover that some entire pages of microfilm are unreadable. Mostly they're over-exposed and the letters are little more than hen scratchings.] Online, the OCR worked perfectly, but the source microfilm was deplorable. I'd search for "mica" and get hits for "miss" - no pun intended, but glad it showed up. I'd search for OCR mis-spellings to find the appropriate articles. Again to Hamlin, I'd search "Honlln" and still find articles. Also searched "toumalin" and "tourmallne". Went to a movie recently which sort of accused one of the characters of being a luddite, sharing the mentality that technological advancement was bad just as those who believe that the internet was bad because it did away with public libraries. The libraries of the future will be museums of the original sources, that is, you'll be able to actually hold a copy of the 1885 USBM Mineral Resources book in your hand and read Kunz's Precious Stones chapter, etc. without the interacting electrons. True, with electronic storage, an intellectual hacker might intrude the database to correct "errors" in his great grandfather's research book or eliminate star systems from the maps so that a base might go undetected, but the hardcopy, lovingly kept in a few strategic libraries will be the backup hard copy to preserve intellectual integrity.(As a further aside, there is at least one case of this in mineralogy. A mineralogist was criticized in a non-English based journal article, but the article was written in somewhat informal English so that English speaking mineralogists would know the "truth" about an incident. I searched the few USA libraries which hold this journal, both USGS libraries, at Reston, Virginia and at Denver, Colorado and the run of that journal is complete except for that issue. Some would say "coincidence", others might be suspicious.) Returning to the present, the internet is certainly reveered by many as already being complete enough. Yesterday, a researcher asked me about the literary output of a person he was researching. He'd spent "thousands of hours" searching the internet. Although he didn't say so, I believe that I was able to double the number of citations as I tend to pick up a book once in a while. I do love the internet, but I notice that many of the sites I reach are composed of old books which have been merely transcribed. Have a book on interlibrary loan request: Life and Times of Hannibal Hamlin. Hannibal was the first to drill and blast for tourmalines at Mount Mica, despite his older brother and a friend having found the tourmalines in the famous fallen tree roots two years before. I'm searching for the reference that the Indian psychic Mollyockett, who, coincident to the current earthquake thread, also has a fault later named for her along which several metal mines were located, predicted that Hannibal Hamlin would one day be a great man. If you read the internet drivel, all you can find out is that Mollyockett, with variant spellings, no "y" and/or single "t", died in 1816 and that Hannibal was born in 1807. Prophecy was limited to a seven year time period, but the biography states that Hannibal was but an "infink" (to qoute Popeye the Sailor). [That information and $8.14 will get you a cup of Coffee at Starbucks.] (Also thanking in advance those who search the internet and find this information already in inconvenienced electron form and their telling me what the url is.) Before the ultimate comment, the penultimate one refers to how to cite a website. Most of the time the author is "anonymous", sometimes you might be able to track them down through a still active link. Many of the email addresses in the "contact me" links are deadends and come back "undeliverable". I just put the url next to the cited passage. (I wonder how many sites, and therefore term papers, have cited spoof information?) What a great seguay .. When a newspaper article came out about George Howe and his mining activities, he is known to have told his friends, "Lies! All lies!" He did leave some notes in his own hand contradicting the "truth" in print. Sorry, gotta go to the library. The weather outside isn't frightful - today. Van -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.6 - Release Date: 12/28/2004 From arf at mc.net Thu Dec 30 06:20:20 2004 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Thu Dec 30 06:20:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Jack's green rock = quartzite References: <200412280202.iBS22HNC032069@bubbleator.drizzle.com><006401c4ecca$492580c0$97f7a5d8@rock5><001e01c4ecf5$04f193a0$49a4490c@pete><002901c4ed00$52dd6340$c85f70d1@S0033035959><003001c4ed71$52843560$a7a3490c@pete><018f01c4ee02$113e3010$c85f70d1@S0033035959> <007701c4ee0c$95c43aa0$fba4490c@pete> Message-ID: <025201c4ee7a$b72543b0$c85f70d1@S0033035959> From: "Peter J. Modreski" > You sent me (just) two pieces. One was the very pale green (nearly white), > sawn piece; that's the one I chipped some off and looked at the fragments. > The other was a small, steeply domed cabochon, that you said I should keep > as a sample of the material. Just those two! Either I am really senile or the real piece got lost. The pale green piece was what we decided was prase and I just sent it along as a point of interest. It has nothing to do with the cabbed piece other than the source (garden) and greenish color. The material for the cab is dark green and would look like the ground bottom of the cab on the sawn edged. Mostly green with a few white steaks. I can't seem to find the cover letter I sent with them but if you still have it, let me know if I mentioned the 3 pieces or just what I did say. We can do this in private but I guess I need your home email address. js PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.com From corndogs at charter.net Thu Dec 30 06:44:35 2004 From: corndogs at charter.net (Brenda LaCroix) Date: Thu Dec 30 06:44:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] giant ruby References: <1c1.21c81436.2f046be6@aol.com> Message-ID: <003201c4ee7e$1543ee80$198da842@dit03r92qai5fx> HI, Cheryl :-) OH, how I wish I was able to have collected him myself!!! I find him magnificent and would love to have been the first one to see him come from the earth...but I have never done any mining myself. I am pretty new to this "rock thing" - at least to the extent I am getting involved now :-) I have been collecting rocks and minerals for their metaphysical properties for about 5 years, when I was searching for ANYTHING to help with my disability when I was first sick. I have only been interested in this side of them - the origin, mining, formation, etc - for about 6 months or so. But, no - it came from Mysore, India by way of a miner/dealer who sold it to my now-friend and he sold it to me :-) I see you live in Omaha.....would you care to meet someday??? I live in Kearney, however, my doctor is in Lincoln - I go to a specialist there once a month - and I would love to meet up with you there or come to Omaha and meet. If this is something you would consider, email me privately so as to not disturb the other members :-) Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, NE CornDogs@Charter.net Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 2:21 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] giant ruby Dear Brenda, All i can say is ,,WOW Did you collect this speciamen yourelf,,? and would you care to share where,,,? Cheryl Omaha , Ne Bunyhgr203@aol.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tam2819 at cox.net Thu Dec 30 08:03:04 2004 From: tam2819 at cox.net (T.A.Masters) Date: Thu Dec 30 08:03:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tsunami Trusted Donation Message-ID: <41D426B8.8010000@cox.net> To All, Ahmed Shareek of Crescent Gems in Sri Lanka is a well known member of Orchid List. He is a resident of Sri Lanka and has provided the following. I was able to make a donation through his web site via PayPal. If you care to contribute, this is one way to do so. Thank you Terrie > TSUNAMI UPDATE : > > Thank you for all your emails expressing concern. Crescent Gems, its > staff and all of our loved ones are safe. At this moment, we are > collecting donations that will be used to help distribute dry rations > and shelter to the millions of victims. If you have not already > contributed, please help. > > Main Street of Galle. > Main Street ( galle ) > Please see the Blue truck whcih is on its side and the Dark Blue Van > which is on top > Please Note a boat at the Town center > Galle Bus depot > Van On its side > Cleaning up > > NEVER UNDER ESTIMATE NATURE and her power. > > http://www.crescentgems.com > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) multipart/related text/html --- From Ted at crystalgems.com Thu Dec 30 08:50:29 2004 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted) Date: Thu Dec 30 08:51:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] maps and collecting locations In-Reply-To: <7f.5464ef2a.2f047074@aol.com> Message-ID: <002801c4ee8f$bca10620$0300a8c0@gametime> Cheryl: Welcome to the list! I confess to being curious about your email name... Do you raise rabbits? Back to on-topic stuff. Collecting information is where you find it. Local rock clubs are definitely excellent sources. Members of the local rock clubs are better sources. Every club has members who have paid their dues and over time garnered information and acquaintances to rock collecting sites. A word of caution here; do not expect these people to immediately download to you all of their info upon request, especially vaguely phrased requests. Side story: I once asked an elder rock hound who was digging near me in South Carolina where I could find minerals in Virginia closer to where I lived... After awhile he finally gave me terse advice which was "Amelia". That was it; no better definition or description. It took me a couple of years; but that one small piece of advice is (still) a gold mine (figuratively speaking). Now: back to your question... Maps and software: There are several excellent sources for software maps. As mentioned before the National Geographic Topo series are excellent; so too is Delorme's Topo? An irritation is that some topo software will prepare and download to GPS units, but no software will download to all units nor will any unit accept downloads from all software. Investigate this before purchasing a GPS and software package unless you like buying multiple products. (I confess to having three separate Topo software products in my drawer and I don't have a clear preference; it all depends on what I am looking for). Paper maps: Of course there is the master source of topos at USGS, definitely find their online sites. Also hook up or go online with the various State Geological departments. Please bear in mind that States place different levels of support for their survey departments. Also locate the colleges that have earth science departments. Both State and colleges publish references and studies. Some state departments also publish a map usually titled "Geological Highway Map". These maps colorize rock units and firmaments as an overlay on a general map. Also try the "American Association of Petroleum Geologists" for maps. I am envious of how well some States develop and distribute geological information versus my own State. (Check out http://www.ugs.state.ut.us/) Other maps: I actively search out books and publications for areas well before I visit that area. This gives me time locate and possibly purchase out of date publications. Past issues of the various rock or mineral magazines are valuable sources to maps and collecting spots. Other sources: Visit the Library! It is surprising how many locations have ancient thesis, papers and monographs that reside in their vaults. By all means get Tim Fisher's excellent CD on the NorthWest and Gary Browns CD copy of Max/Mils (a Government survey of mineral resources from the 1950-60's). Good hunting! Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Bunyhgr203@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 3:41 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] maps and collecting locations Hello everyone! I am a new member of the list,,and have lain back and observed for a while now,,to get the feel of what it's all about. I think this is a great forum! Now I have a question for you all, I am sure you have run up against it before and surely will again. My collecting experience has been limited to what I happen upon, and to club field trips, while I love to reserch,,it is often hard to find specific information on collecting sites for gems, Minerals, fossils and of course the beloved agates and petrified wood. So the question is,, do any of you have recommendations of where to look for specific information,,,maps,,and types of "software" that can help me build a map collection {topographical maps} . Cheryl Omaha,Ne Bunyhgr203@aol.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tjokela at execulink.com Thu Dec 30 09:06:10 2004 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Thu Dec 30 09:06:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] INCREDIBLY INTERESTING!!! References: <018501c4ee24$e61a67a0$4e887644@dit03r92qai5fx> Message-ID: <002201c4ee91$dc38e000$6401a8c0@Junior> Nonsense. With thousands of dead, injured, and homeless humans, do you think the Government of Sri Lanka has time to go around resuscitating dead parrots? I really doubt they've managed an accurate wildlife census at this point in time. If animals did flee the tsunami well before it arrived, it's not because of some mysterious doggy sixth sense, it's because of their excellent sense of hearing. I hope the ASPCA is monitoring the situation, and will be donating some dog and cat food to ease the suffering of our four-legged friends. Not at all an appropriate topic for this list, so let's hope this is the last post on it. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda LaCroix" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 11:06 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] INCREDIBLY INTERESTING!!! OK, I just watched the Primetime Special on the Tsunami..... The closing comment was about wild life - the first I had heard about animals, so of course, I was very interested to hear what he had to say - and he said that the Government of Sri Lanka has reported NO CORPSES OF WILD LIFE I don't know if that is covering domestic dogs and cats - which I can't imagine that it is, because there must be some of those that were caught in houses and had to have died. But the wild life is what is sooooooooooooo interesting. These are places that must be covered with birds and monkeys and all kinds of things. They have a sense that we don't pay attention to.....because we have it to, of course, since we are all mammals in the basic sense. I think this just proves it :-) I just thought I would mention this.....any comments?!?! Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, NE CornDogs@Charter.net Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Thu Dec 30 09:24:13 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Thu Dec 30 09:15:10 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] INCREDIBLY INTERESTING!!! References: <018501c4ee24$e61a67a0$4e887644@dit03r92qai5fx> <002201c4ee91$dc38e000$6401a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <009101c4ee94$62b33a20$b6a6490c@pete> I wonder if the immediate coastal areas, which are heavily populated, haven't had most of the native wildlife either driven back further into this less populated interior areas, and/or long since hunted for food. I'll bet there's just not that much wildlife, near the shore in the innundated areas. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Jokela Jr." To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 10:06 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] INCREDIBLY INTERESTING!!! > Nonsense. > > With thousands of dead, injured, and homeless humans, do you think the > Government of Sri Lanka has time to go around resuscitating dead parrots? I > really doubt they've managed an accurate wildlife census at this point in > time. > > If animals did flee the tsunami well before it arrived, it's not because of > some mysterious doggy sixth sense, it's because of their excellent sense of > hearing. > > I hope the ASPCA is monitoring the situation, and will be donating some dog > and cat food to ease the suffering of our four-legged friends. > > Not at all an appropriate topic for this list, so let's hope this is the > last post on it. > > Cheers, > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brenda LaCroix" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 11:06 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] INCREDIBLY INTERESTING!!! > > > OK, I just watched the Primetime Special on the Tsunami..... > > The closing comment was about wild life - the first I had heard about > animals, so of course, I was very interested to hear what he had to say - > and he said that the Government of Sri Lanka has reported NO CORPSES OF WILD > LIFE > > I don't know if that is covering domestic dogs and cats - which I can't > imagine that it is, because there must be some of those that were caught in > houses and had to have died. But the wild life is what is sooooooooooooo > interesting. These are places that must be covered with birds and monkeys > and all kinds of things. They have a sense that we don't pay attention > to.....because we have it to, of course, since we are all mammals in the > basic sense. I think this just proves it :-) > > I just thought I would mention this.....any comments?!?! > Brenda > > > Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan > > Assisting Boston Terriers > > Kearney, NE > > CornDogs@Charter.net > > Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers > > To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! > > Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your > character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what > others think you are. ~Author Unknown > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From totis at earthlink.net Thu Dec 30 10:58:40 2004 From: totis at earthlink.net (teresa) Date: Thu Dec 30 10:58:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: New Madrid Fault thoughts Message-ID: <19817416.1104433120824.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> I have been thoroughly enjoying all of the information everyone has been sharing about the New Madrid Earthquake and fault zone. Althought I must admit, the technological and geological knowledge in this ezine as always is way beyond my knowledge and I always appreciate everyone's responses and thoughts. Because the New Madrid exists in a place that isn't considered normal it has always fascinated me. About 25 years ago (1980) we had moved down to Arkansas and were making a trip back to Indiana to visit family and friends. and along the way we stopped in New Madrid, Missouri. This was long before I got hooked on rocks and rockhounding, but the earthquake history of the 'big one' had always fascinated me. In addition, in the early seventies there had been ground shaking in northern Indiana that was reputedly from the New Madrid fault. I wanted to see what was there lol! I remember 2 things distinctly from stopping there....a small historical museum that had some earthquake info and a lot of civil war stuff...but the major thing I will always remember is we took the kids and walked up this very steep kinda high embankment and there was the Mississippi River at our feet - ABOVE the town. It amazed me to realize this was an effect of the quake in the process of forming Reelfoot Lake in Tennessee. The town seemingly dropped below the river level and the river itself flowed backwards and made new channels for itself. In 1990, Browning predicted the New Madrid was going to have another big quake. I'm sure many of you remember this in the news. Living in central Arkansas at the time, no one really believed it but yet .. more notably..no one DISbelieved it. Northeastern Arkansas was (and is) accustomed to the rumbles and movement that occur but this was thought to be big enough in size to affect the entire state. Everyone checked the cost of earthquake insurance, made plans for where family members were and who would check on the kids if families were on opposite sides of the river if/when the big one happened that December. We had many friends in the military and, as I recall, the Army, Air Force and National Guard was put on emergency alert status of some sort. The National Guard changed its annual field training and just, conveniently of course, scheduled it for the week of the prediction and had it take place within the possible epicenter region so that all possible military personnel and hospital setups would be immediately available. At the predicted time period, most sane people (I hope I was one of those lol) went on about everyday life in the normal way albeit very aware of what might or might not occur. As we all know now, it didn't happen...then. But I believe it can and will happen. Geologically speaking aside, it's there, it's not dormant and it is a pressure cooker. The link to the UALR website provides a lot of interesting information on the fault. http://quake.ualr.edu/public/nmfz.htm ------- Original Message ----- --> --From: "J Bryan Kramer" --> --To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem --> --collectors'" --> -- --> --Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 8:33 PM --> --Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake --> -- --> -- --> --> The New Madrid mid-plate earthquake series had at least --> --three of the --> --> four quakes around the high 8's and low 9's, the third quake is --> --> supposedly just below The 1960 Chile event in magnitude. --> --The cause of --> --> the New Madrid quakes is still a mystery. --> --> --> --> The 1755 Lisbon earthquake was estimated to be around --> --magnitude 9 and --> --> generated tsunamis as well. So there are examples of big --> --quakes away --> --> from the Pacific rim. --> --> --> --> Bryan From cjkuo at verizon.net Thu Dec 30 11:23:54 2004 From: cjkuo at verizon.net (Jimmy Kuo) Date: Thu Dec 30 11:26:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] INCREDIBLY INTERESTING!!! References: <018501c4ee24$e61a67a0$4e887644@dit03r92qai5fx><002201c4ee91$dc38e000$6401a8c0@Junior> <009101c4ee94$62b33a20$b6a6490c@pete> Message-ID: <00ad01c4eea5$1af42940$1902a8c0@LOSJKUOLT2> Or, when found, was taken for food. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] INCREDIBLY INTERESTING!!! > I wonder if the immediate coastal areas, which are heavily populated, > haven't had most of the native wildlife either driven back further into this > less populated interior areas, and/or long since hunted for food. I'll bet > there's just not that much wildlife, near the shore in the innundated areas. > > Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Jokela Jr." > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 10:06 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] INCREDIBLY INTERESTING!!! > > > > Nonsense. > > > > With thousands of dead, injured, and homeless humans, do you think the > > Government of Sri Lanka has time to go around resuscitating dead parrots? > I > > really doubt they've managed an accurate wildlife census at this point in > > time. > > > > If animals did flee the tsunami well before it arrived, it's not because > of > > some mysterious doggy sixth sense, it's because of their excellent sense > of > > hearing. > > > > I hope the ASPCA is monitoring the situation, and will be donating some > dog > > and cat food to ease the suffering of our four-legged friends. > > > > Not at all an appropriate topic for this list, so let's hope this is the > > last post on it. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Brenda LaCroix" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 11:06 PM > > Subject: [Rockhounds] INCREDIBLY INTERESTING!!! > > > > > > OK, I just watched the Primetime Special on the Tsunami..... > > > > The closing comment was about wild life - the first I had heard about > > animals, so of course, I was very interested to hear what he had to say - > > and he said that the Government of Sri Lanka has reported NO CORPSES OF > WILD > > LIFE > > > > I don't know if that is covering domestic dogs and cats - which I can't > > imagine that it is, because there must be some of those that were caught > in > > houses and had to have died. But the wild life is what is sooooooooooooo > > interesting. These are places that must be covered with birds and monkeys > > and all kinds of things. They have a sense that we don't pay attention > > to.....because we have it to, of course, since we are all mammals in the > > basic sense. I think this just proves it :-) > > > > I just thought I would mention this.....any comments?!?! > > Brenda > > > > > > Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan > > > > Assisting Boston Terriers > > > > Kearney, NE > > > > CornDogs@Charter.net > > > > Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston > Terriers > > > > To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! > > > > Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your > > character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what > > others think you are. ~Author Unknown > > > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 30 12:00:25 2004 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Thu Dec 30 12:00:31 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] maps and collecting locations In-Reply-To: <002801c4ee8f$bca10620$0300a8c0@gametime> Message-ID: <20041230200025.2778.qmail@web51005.mail.yahoo.com> You can also download or print topo maps from topozone.com Jim --- Ted wrote: > Cheryl: > Welcome to the list! I confess to being curious > about your email name... Do > you raise rabbits? > > Back to on-topic stuff. > > Collecting information is where you find it. Local > rock clubs are definitely > excellent sources. Members of the local rock clubs > are better sources. Every > club has members who have paid their dues and over > time garnered information > and acquaintances to rock collecting sites. A word > of caution here; do not > expect these people to immediately download to you > all of their info upon > request, especially vaguely phrased requests. > > Side story: I once asked an elder rock hound who was > digging near me in > South Carolina where I could find minerals in > Virginia closer to where I > lived... After awhile he finally gave me terse > advice which was "Amelia". > That was it; no better definition or description. It > took me a couple of > years; but that one small piece of advice is (still) > a gold mine > (figuratively speaking). > > Now: back to your question... Maps and software: > There are several excellent > sources for software maps. As mentioned before the > National Geographic Topo > series are excellent; so too is Delorme's Topo? An > irritation is that some > topo software will prepare and download to GPS > units, but no software will > download to all units nor will any unit accept > downloads from all software. > Investigate this before purchasing a GPS and > software package unless you > like buying multiple products. (I confess to having > three separate Topo > software products in my drawer and I don't have a > clear preference; it all > depends on what I am looking for). > > Paper maps: Of course there is the master source of > topos at USGS, > definitely find their online sites. Also hook up or > go online with the > various State Geological departments. Please bear in > mind that States place > different levels of support for their survey > departments. Also locate the > colleges that have earth science departments. Both > State and colleges > publish references and studies. Some state > departments also publish a map > usually titled "Geological Highway Map". These maps > colorize rock units and > firmaments as an overlay on a general map. Also try > the "American > Association of Petroleum Geologists" for maps. I am > envious of how well some > States develop and distribute geological information > versus my own State. > (Check out http://www.ugs.state.ut.us/) > > Other maps: I actively search out books and > publications for areas well > before I visit that area. This gives me time locate > and possibly purchase > out of date publications. Past issues of the various > rock or mineral > magazines are valuable sources to maps and > collecting spots. > > Other sources: Visit the Library! It is surprising > how many locations have > ancient thesis, papers and monographs that reside in > their vaults. By all > means get Tim Fisher's excellent CD on the NorthWest > and Gary Browns CD copy > of Max/Mils (a Government survey of mineral > resources from the 1950-60's). > > Good hunting! > > Ted Kowalski > Fredericksburg, VA USA > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On > Behalf Of > Bunyhgr203@aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 3:41 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] maps and collecting locations > > Hello everyone! > > I am a new member of the list,,and have lain back > and observed for a while > now,,to get the feel of what it's all about. I think > this is a great forum! > > Now I have a question for you all, I am sure you > have run up against it > before and surely will again. > > My collecting experience has been limited to what I > happen upon, and to > club > field trips, > > while I love to reserch,,it is often hard to find > specific information on > collecting sites for gems, > > Minerals, fossils and of course the beloved agates > and petrified wood. So > the question is,, > > do any of you have recommendations of where to look > for specific > information,,,maps,,and > > types of "software" that can help me build a map > collection {topographical > maps} . > > > Cheryl > Omaha,Ne > Bunyhgr203@aol.com > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 30 12:07:07 2004 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Thu Dec 30 12:07:10 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sri Lanka & Arthur C Clarke In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20041228122025.044aa8c0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <20041230200707.4932.qmail@web51005.mail.yahoo.com> Kitty, Thanks for passing along the links for Clarke, and the info that he's OK. He's always been one of my favorite writers. Jim Daly --- Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > Earlier this morning Bill and I were wondering about > Arthur C. Clarke, who > lives in Sri Lanka. We were hoping he is safe. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From kadok at infowest.com Thu Dec 30 13:09:27 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Thu Dec 30 13:09:31 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! In-Reply-To: <1104342624.2802.35.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20041230210929.592BDCB9FB2@delivery.infowest.com> Hey, great, John, I like it! I like it! Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of john Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:51 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! On Sun, 2004-12-26 at 23:47, Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > Ok, poets out there...... > > Finish this ode to Axel... > > "When you wish upon a star....." > > 1. "Could be Axel from afar.... When you wish upon a star Think of Axel in a bar Holding forth to one and all What a marvel! What a ball! Turn that 'scope a little right And tell your friends what you have seen The steady shining little light Of Asteroid One-Fifty-Five-Thirteen. What you see is not what you get I belong to yet another set Think of where I am tonight Floating nearly out of sight In manly orbit round the sun A journey not so lightly done. I will add upon your wish My own to your desire That all and sundry, near and far Want only good from this...little star john _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From LarryRush at worldnet.att.net Thu Dec 30 13:05:32 2004 From: LarryRush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Thu Dec 30 13:30:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: New Madrid Fault thoughts References: <19817416.1104433120824.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <018201c4eeb7$020abae0$6b8a4c0c@fekib> Teresa: You may be interested in a USGS publication on Brownings prediction (Circular 1083, 248 pages, published in 1993) entitled "Responses to Iben Browning's Prediction of a 1990 New Madrid, Missouri, Earthquake". Not a scientific critique of Browning, but it contains all of the newspaper accounts of the prediction, and the public and scientific community responses to his statements. Non-technical, very readable, and interesting reading for New Madrid enthusiasts! Larry Rush ----- Original Message ----- From: teresa To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 1:58 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: New Madrid Fault thoughts I have been thoroughly enjoying all of the information everyone has been sharing about the New Madrid Earthquake and fault zone. Althought I must admit, the technological and geological knowledge in this ezine as always is way beyond my knowledge and I always appreciate everyone's responses and thoughts. Because the New Madrid exists in a place that isn't considered normal it has always fascinated me. About 25 years ago (1980) we had moved down to Arkansas and were making a trip back to Indiana to visit family and friends. and along the way we stopped in New Madrid, Missouri. This was long before I got hooked on rocks and rockhounding, but the earthquake history of the 'big one' had always fascinated me. In addition, in the early seventies there had been ground shaking in northern Indiana that was reputedly from the New Madrid fault. I wanted to see what was there lol! I remember 2 things distinctly from stopping there....a small historical museum that had some earthquake info and a lot of civil war stuff...but the major thing I will always remember is we took the kids and walked up this very steep kinda high embankment and there was the Mississippi River at our feet - ABOVE the town. It amazed me to realize this was an effect of the quake in the process of forming Reelfoot Lake in Tennessee. The town seemingly dropped below the river level and the river itself fl! owed backwards and made new channels for itself. In 1990, Browning predicted the New Madrid was going to have another big quake. I'm sure many of you remember this in the news. Living in central Arkansas at the time, no one really believed it but yet .. more notably..no one DISbelieved it. Northeastern Arkansas was (and is) accustomed to the rumbles and movement that occur but this was thought to be big enough in size to affect the entire state. Everyone checked the cost of earthquake insurance, made plans for where family members were and who would check on the kids if families were on opposite sides of the river if/when the big one happened that December. We had many friends in the military and, as I recall, the Army, Air Force and National Guard was put on emergency alert status of some sort. The National Guard changed its annual field training and just, conveniently of course, scheduled it for the week of the prediction and had it take place within the possible epicenter region so that all possible military perso! nnel and hospital setups would be immediately available. At the predicted time period, most sane people (I hope I was one of those lol) went on about everyday life in the normal way albeit very aware of what might or might not occur. As we all know now, it didn't happen...then. But I believe it can and will happen. Geologically speaking aside, it's there, it's not dormant and it is a pressure cooker. The link to the UALR website provides a lot of interesting information on the fault. http://quake.ualr.edu/public/nmfz.htm ------- Original Message ----- --> --From: "J Bryan Kramer" --> --To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem --> --collectors'" --> -- --> --Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 8:33 PM --> --Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake --> -- --> -- --> --> The New Madrid mid-plate earthquake series had at least --> --three of the --> --> four quakes around the high 8's and low 9's, the third quake is --> --> supposedly just below The 1960 Chile event in magnitude. --> --The cause of --> --> the New Madrid quakes is still a mystery. --> --> --> --> The 1755 Lisbon earthquake was estimated to be around --> --magnitude 9 and --> --> generated tsunamis as well. So there are examples of big --> --quakes away --> --> from the Pacific rim. --> --> --> --> Bryan _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From LarryRush at worldnet.att.net Thu Dec 30 13:11:54 2004 From: LarryRush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Thu Dec 30 13:31:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: New Madrid Fault thoughts References: <19817416.1104433120824.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <018301c4eeb7$041aaf20$6b8a4c0c@fekib> Teresa: For more info. on Browning and his New Madrid prediction, see the USGS Circular 1083, (1993,248 pages, paperback). An interesting view of Iben Browning, his prediction, and the public and scientific community's responses to it. A non-technical, and very readable account of a fascinating piece of American earthquake history. Larry Rush ----- Original Message ----- From: teresa To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 1:58 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: New Madrid Fault thoughts I have been thoroughly enjoying all of the information everyone has been sharing about the New Madrid Earthquake and fault zone. Althought I must admit, the technological and geological knowledge in this ezine as always is way beyond my knowledge and I always appreciate everyone's responses and thoughts. Because the New Madrid exists in a place that isn't considered normal it has always fascinated me. About 25 years ago (1980) we had moved down to Arkansas and were making a trip back to Indiana to visit family and friends. and along the way we stopped in New Madrid, Missouri. This was long before I got hooked on rocks and rockhounding, but the earthquake history of the 'big one' had always fascinated me. In addition, in the early seventies there had been ground shaking in northern Indiana that was reputedly from the New Madrid fault. I wanted to see what was there lol! I remember 2 things distinctly from stopping there....a small historical museum that had some earthquake info and a lot of civil war stuff...but the major thing I will always remember is we took the kids and walked up this very steep kinda high embankment and there was the Mississippi River at our feet - ABOVE the town. It amazed me to realize this was an effect of the quake in the process of forming Reelfoot Lake in Tennessee. The town seemingly dropped below the river level and the river itself fl! owed backwards and made new channels for itself. In 1990, Browning predicted the New Madrid was going to have another big quake. I'm sure many of you remember this in the news. Living in central Arkansas at the time, no one really believed it but yet .. more notably..no one DISbelieved it. Northeastern Arkansas was (and is) accustomed to the rumbles and movement that occur but this was thought to be big enough in size to affect the entire state. Everyone checked the cost of earthquake insurance, made plans for where family members were and who would check on the kids if families were on opposite sides of the river if/when the big one happened that December. We had many friends in the military and, as I recall, the Army, Air Force and National Guard was put on emergency alert status of some sort. The National Guard changed its annual field training and just, conveniently of course, scheduled it for the week of the prediction and had it take place within the possible epicenter region so that all possible military perso! nnel and hospital setups would be immediately available. At the predicted time period, most sane people (I hope I was one of those lol) went on about everyday life in the normal way albeit very aware of what might or might not occur. As we all know now, it didn't happen...then. But I believe it can and will happen. Geologically speaking aside, it's there, it's not dormant and it is a pressure cooker. The link to the UALR website provides a lot of interesting information on the fault. http://quake.ualr.edu/public/nmfz.htm _______________________________________________ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Dec 30 13:39:54 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Dec 30 13:39:25 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! In-Reply-To: <41D36B53.2FB9@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Hmmm... warp 9.some... that would have me home in time for dinner ;-))) Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski Verzonden: donderdag 30 december 2004 3:44 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! > What you see is not what you get http://www.startrekvoyager.com/viewtopic.php?t=15513 Now there is a ship that might let you go collecting on your asteroid. Kreigh Axel Emmermann wrote: > > Not half bad ;-)))) > Differenc ebetween me and the rock is that you don't need a scope to see me. > Better of with a fisheye lens ;-))) > > Cheers > > "Rocky" Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens john > Verzonden: woensdag 29 december 2004 18:51 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Bravo Axel! > > On Sun, 2004-12-26 at 23:47, Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > > Ok, poets out there...... > > > > Finish this ode to Axel... > > > > "When you wish upon a star....." > > > > 1. "Could be Axel from afar.... > > When you wish upon a star > Think of Axel in a bar > Holding forth to one and all > What a marvel! What a ball! > Turn that 'scope a little right > And tell your friends what you have seen > The steady shining little light > Of Asteroid One-Fifty-Five-Thirteen. > > What you see is not what you get > I belong to yet another set > Think of where I am tonight > Floating nearly out of sight > In manly orbit round the sun > A journey not so lightly done. > I will add upon your wish > My own to your desire > That all and sundry, near and far > Want only good from this...little star > > john _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Dec 30 13:54:06 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Dec 30 13:53:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: <005a01c4edd2$377d7360$b6a5490c@pete> Message-ID: Hi Pete, I beg to differ. Some minerals will fluoresce solely or much stronger under LW: Ruby, meionite (wernerite) most sodalite, etc.. Some minerals will react completely different to LW, MW or SW. Tugtupite, spodumene, TT calcite, etc... In my experience, MW is the strongest in "average" . I think we should look upon UV as a continuous spectrum in which many minerals have there optimal exiting band of wavelengths. We have only three narrow bands at our disposal... Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Peter J. Modreski Verzonden: woensdag 29 december 2004 19:14 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence Brenda, Most rubies fluoresce red, under long-wave ultraviolet light; an exception among minerals, because long-wave UV lamps are the less expensive kind. Some rubies are brighter than others. Yes, you should get a lamp and check out all your ruby crystals! One of many good places to start for more information is the Fluorescent Mineral Society website, http://www.uvminerals.org/ Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda LaCroix" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Minedat > NO....I have never put a blacklight on it.....should I?!?!?!? > > What would I be looking for if I did....LOL!!! I have read that rubies can flouresce (sp?), is that right?? Is that what I would > be looking for?? > > Where does one go about getting a blacklight, or finding someone who has one that I could use momentarily?? I certainly wouldn't > need to buy one, would I??? Or maybe it is something that is needed to be a rockhound?? hehehe!!! > > Very interested..... > Brenda _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Dec 30 15:10:03 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Dec 30 15:11:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] postscript about tsunami warnings References: <41D363BB.155F@Tomaszewski.net> <41D3FA07.9050607@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <003601c4eec4$b203a300$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> I want to know exactly how much changed down there where the epicenter was, did the landscape of the seafloor change, and GPS coordinates of the islands themselves. And with a terrific jolt like that in ONE place, how will that affect other faults. What about the effect on the planet? I wonder if the tilt of the earth changed any, and is the change in day length permanent? Anyone have the link to articles about the planet changes? Jeanette > I find it astonishing that half way around the planet there is still so > much movement in the crust. > > Cheers, > Maurice > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From nmartin at bbn.com Thu Dec 30 15:42:45 2004 From: nmartin at bbn.com (Nathan C. Martin II) Date: Thu Dec 30 15:42:52 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] tsunami info & thanks Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20041230182740.01ee2800@po2.bbn.com> About a year ago someone on the list pointed out an excellent set of Mineralogy course notes by Tulane Univ. geology professor Stephen Nelson. I downloaded those for my own study and liked them so much that I looked around to see what other courses he taught. If you check out the link below you will find lecture notes in pdf format for Tulane course EENS 204: Natural Disasters. One of the sessions deals with tsunami and I think it provides an excellent introduction to the phenomenon. The other 20 or so topics in the course are equally well done. http://www.tulane.edu/~sanelson/geol204/index.html#Lecture%20Notes Thanks to all of you who continue to post messages to the list to inform and amuse us all. Best regards for a happy start to 2005! I pray that it will be a better, more peaceful year for all of us who inhabit this amazing planet. Nate Martin Lexington, MA From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Thu Dec 30 16:05:17 2004 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Thu Dec 30 16:05:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] postscript about tsunami warnings In-Reply-To: <003601c4eec4$b203a300$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> References: <41D363BB.155F@Tomaszewski.net> <41D3FA07.9050607@xs4all.nl> <003601c4eec4$b203a300$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <41D497BD.7040702@xs4all.nl> I think I remember an expert on TV saying that the vertical movement of the seafloor was 'several tens of meters' . I did a quick google but I could not find any sites to back up these sorts of figures. I did find: http://iri.columbia.edu/~lareef/tsunami/ Which has a lot of scientific info on the Indian ocean tsunami. Cheers, Maurice Jeanette Wimpee wrote: >I want to know exactly how much changed down there where the epicenter was, >did the landscape of the seafloor change, and GPS coordinates of the islands >themselves. And with a terrific jolt like that in ONE place, how will that >affect other faults. >What about the effect on the planet? I wonder if the tilt of the earth >changed any, and is the change in day length permanent? >Anyone have the link to articles about the planet changes? > >Jeanette > > > > >>I find it astonishing that half way around the planet there is still so >>much movement in the crust. >> >>Cheers, >>Maurice >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jbryankramer at msn.com Thu Dec 30 16:22:51 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Dec 30 16:22:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] postscript about tsunami warnings In-Reply-To: <003601c4eec4$b203a300$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: Well, a nearby volcano started erupting. In the Andamen Islands I think. Bryan -------Original Message----- --From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com --[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of --Jeanette Wimpee --Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 18:10 --To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors --Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] postscript about tsunami warnings -- -- --I want to know exactly how much changed down there where the --epicenter was, did the landscape of the seafloor change, and --GPS coordinates of the islands themselves. And with a --terrific jolt like that in ONE place, how will that affect --other faults. What about the effect on the planet? I wonder --if the tilt of the earth changed any, and is the change in --day length permanent? Anyone have the link to articles about --the planet changes? -- --Jeanette -- -- --> I find it astonishing that half way around the planet there --is still --> so much movement in the crust. --> --> Cheers, --> Maurice --> --> --> _______________________________________________ --> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --> Subscription Services: --> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Thu Dec 30 16:42:23 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Thu Dec 30 16:33:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence References: Message-ID: <003501c4eed1$9ae08f00$dca4490c@pete> Ah, Axel, now we can argue about how many minerals do which! But wouldn't you still say that, "on average", there aren't nearly as many minerals that fl. brightly under LW, and SW? (Of course, I'm always biased by the preponderance of Franklin/Sterling Hill specimens in displays or collections, most of which need SW to fluoresce brightly.) And to be honest, although I have a MW lamp, I really don't use it all that much, and I don't look at as many of my specimens with it as I should. When I bought it I got one (made by UVP) that is just MW; if I had to do it again, I'd get one that was one bulb SW, one bulb MW; then I'd toggle back and forth to MW after using the SW lamp, and I'll bet I'd use it a lot more. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 2:54 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > Hi Pete, > > I beg to differ. Some minerals will fluoresce solely or much stronger under > LW: Ruby, meionite (wernerite) most sodalite, etc.. > Some minerals will react completely different to LW, MW or SW. Tugtupite, > spodumene, TT calcite, etc... > In my experience, MW is the strongest in "average" . > > I think we should look upon UV as a continuous spectrum in which many > minerals have there optimal exiting band of wavelengths. We have only three > narrow bands at our disposal... > > Cheers > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Peter J. Modreski > Verzonden: woensdag 29 december 2004 19:14 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > > Brenda, > > Most rubies fluoresce red, under long-wave ultraviolet light; an exception > among minerals, because long-wave UV lamps are the less expensive kind. > Some rubies are brighter than others. Yes, you should get a lamp and check > out all your ruby crystals! > > One of many good places to start for more information is the Fluorescent > Mineral Society website, > > http://www.uvminerals.org/ > > Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brenda LaCroix" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:56 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Minedat > > > > > NO....I have never put a blacklight on it.....should I?!?!?!? > > > > What would I be looking for if I did....LOL!!! I have read that rubies > can flouresce (sp?), is that right?? Is that what I would > > be looking for?? > > > > Where does one go about getting a blacklight, or finding someone who has > one that I could use momentarily?? I certainly wouldn't > > need to buy one, would I??? Or maybe it is something that is needed to be > a rockhound?? hehehe!!! > > > > Very interested..... > > Brenda > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Paintricks at aol.com Thu Dec 30 16:45:52 2004 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Thu Dec 30 16:45:57 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ? about shift Message-ID: As some of us have heard, the waves have made a shift of the earths geology. It's still inconceivable to me the magnitude of all of what has been going on this past week. It's still hard to take all in. Since it was so massive, what affects could this have on otherwise "stable" or quiet fault lines of the world? Coastal areas? Thoughts and prayers. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Thu Dec 30 17:25:53 2004 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn's Mail) Date: Thu Dec 30 17:25:52 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: New Madrid Fault thoughts References: <19817416.1104433120824.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <007301c4eed7$abd37d80$6601a8c0@GlennWimpee> When I wrote "dormant" I meant "not extinct" as used to describe a volcano. BTW it would not be a surprise to me to see another big quake event on the opposite side of the Indian-Australian plate! Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "teresa" To: Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 12:58 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: New Madrid Fault thoughts > I have been thoroughly enjoying all of the information everyone has been sharing about the New Madrid Earthquake and fault zone. Althought I must admit, the technological and geological knowledge in this ezine as always is way beyond my knowledge and I always appreciate everyone's responses and thoughts. > > Because the New Madrid exists in a place that isn't considered normal it has always fascinated me. > > About 25 years ago (1980) we had moved down to Arkansas and were making a trip back to Indiana to visit family and friends. and along the way we stopped in New Madrid, Missouri. This was long before I got hooked on rocks and rockhounding, but the earthquake history of the 'big one' had always fascinated me. In addition, in the early seventies there had been ground shaking in northern Indiana that was reputedly from the New Madrid fault. I wanted to see what was there lol! I remember 2 things distinctly from stopping there....a small historical museum that had some earthquake info and a lot of civil war stuff...but the major thing I will always remember is we took the kids and walked up this very steep kinda high embankment and there was the Mississippi River at our feet - ABOVE the town. It amazed me to realize this was an effect of the quake in the process of forming Reelfoot Lake in Tennessee. The town seemingly dropped below the river level and the river itself fl! > owed backwards and made new channels for itself. > > In 1990, Browning predicted the New Madrid was going to have another big quake. I'm sure many of you remember this in the news. Living in central Arkansas at the time, no one really believed it but yet .. more notably..no one DISbelieved it. Northeastern Arkansas was (and is) accustomed to the rumbles and movement that occur but this was thought to be big enough in size to affect the entire state. Everyone checked the cost of earthquake insurance, made plans for where family members were and who would check on the kids if families were on opposite sides of the river if/when the big one happened that December. We had many friends in the military and, as I recall, the Army, Air Force and National Guard was put on emergency alert status of some sort. The National Guard changed its annual field training and just, conveniently of course, scheduled it for the week of the prediction and had it take place within the possible epicenter region so that all possible military perso! > nnel and hospital setups would be immediately available. > > At the predicted time period, most sane people (I hope I was one of those lol) went on about everyday life in the normal way albeit very aware of what might or might not occur. As we all know now, it didn't happen...then. But I believe it can and will happen. Geologically speaking aside, it's there, it's not dormant and it is a pressure cooker. > > The link to the UALR website provides a lot of interesting information on the fault. > > http://quake.ualr.edu/public/nmfz.htm > > > ------- Original Message ----- > --> --From: "J Bryan Kramer" > --> --To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > --> --collectors'" > --> -- > --> --Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 8:33 PM > --> --Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake > --> -- > --> -- > --> --> The New Madrid mid-plate earthquake series had at least > --> --three of the > --> --> four quakes around the high 8's and low 9's, the third quake is > --> --> supposedly just below The 1960 Chile event in magnitude. > --> --The cause of > --> --> the New Madrid quakes is still a mystery. > --> --> > --> --> The 1755 Lisbon earthquake was estimated to be around > --> --magnitude 9 and > --> --> generated tsunamis as well. So there are examples of big > --> --quakes away > --> --> from the Pacific rim. > --> --> > --> --> Bryan > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Thu Dec 30 17:29:42 2004 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn's Mail) Date: Thu Dec 30 17:29:41 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sri Lanka & Arthur C Clarke References: <20041230200707.4932.qmail@web51005.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007d01c4eed8$3462bfd0$6601a8c0@GlennWimpee> As usual, really good science fiction becomes plain old science. Mr. Clarke is truly an inspired man of our time. Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Daly" > Kitty, > Thanks for passing along the links for Clarke, and the > info that he's OK. He's always been one of my favorite > writers. > Jim Daly > --- Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > > Earlier this morning Bill and I were wondering about > > Arthur C. Clarke, who > > lives in Sri Lanka. We were hoping he is safe. > > From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Thu Dec 30 17:46:43 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Thu Dec 30 17:37:41 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence References: <003501c4eed1$9ae08f00$dca4490c@pete> Message-ID: <004901c4eeda$95c03760$dca4490c@pete> Excuse me, please, I meant to say, wouldn't you still say that, "on average", there aren't nearly as many minerals that fl. brightly under LW, AS [under] SW? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 5:42 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > Ah, Axel, now we can argue about how many minerals do which! But wouldn't > you still say that, "on average", there aren't nearly as many minerals that > fl. brightly under LW, and SW? (Of course, I'm always biased by the > preponderance of Franklin/Sterling Hill specimens in displays or > collections, most of which need SW to fluoresce brightly.) > > And to be honest, although I have a MW lamp, I really don't use it all that > much, and I don't look at as many of my specimens with it as I should. When > I bought it I got one (made by UVP) that is just MW; if I had to do it > again, I'd get one that was one bulb SW, one bulb MW; then I'd toggle back > and forth to MW after using the SW lamp, and I'll bet I'd use it a lot more. > > Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Axel Emmermann" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 2:54 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > > > Hi Pete, > > > > I beg to differ. Some minerals will fluoresce solely or much stronger > under > > LW: Ruby, meionite (wernerite) most sodalite, etc.. > > Some minerals will react completely different to LW, MW or SW. Tugtupite, > > spodumene, TT calcite, etc... > > In my experience, MW is the strongest in "average" . > > > > I think we should look upon UV as a continuous spectrum in which many > > minerals have there optimal exiting band of wavelengths. We have only > three > > narrow bands at our disposal... > > > > Cheers > > Axel > > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Peter J. Modreski > > Verzonden: woensdag 29 december 2004 19:14 > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > > > > > Brenda, > > > > Most rubies fluoresce red, under long-wave ultraviolet light; an exception > > among minerals, because long-wave UV lamps are the less expensive kind. > > Some rubies are brighter than others. Yes, you should get a lamp and > check > > out all your ruby crystals! > > > > One of many good places to start for more information is the Fluorescent > > Mineral Society website, > > > > http://www.uvminerals.org/ > > > > Pete > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Brenda LaCroix" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:56 AM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Minedat > > > > > > > > > NO....I have never put a blacklight on it.....should I?!?!?!? > > > > > > What would I be looking for if I did....LOL!!! I have read that rubies > > can flouresce (sp?), is that right?? Is that what I would > > > be looking for?? > > > > > > Where does one go about getting a blacklight, or finding someone who has > > one that I could use momentarily?? I certainly wouldn't > > > need to buy one, would I??? Or maybe it is something that is needed to > be > > a rockhound?? hehehe!!! > > > > > > Very interested..... > > > Brenda > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Rewhittemo at aol.com Thu Dec 30 19:12:16 2004 From: Rewhittemo at aol.com (Rewhittemo@aol.com) Date: Thu Dec 30 19:12:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Eastern United States Tsunami imminent Message-ID: <1e9.324f4eda.2f061d90@aol.com> Where is the island of Tenerife? How do you know it is looking "particularly ropey"? What does that mean"? Anne --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From SMKELL45 at aol.com Thu Dec 30 19:25:15 2004 From: SMKELL45 at aol.com (SMKELL45@aol.com) Date: Thu Dec 30 19:25:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Eastern United States Tsunami imminent Message-ID: <1e1.328c6a08.2f06209b@aol.com> Tenerife is, I believe, a volcanic island. The inner structure has been weakened by water. If it slumps it could produce a significant wave. Hawaii also has a similar history of slumping. smkell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From CRAZYDOVE at aol.com Thu Dec 30 20:13:24 2004 From: CRAZYDOVE at aol.com (CRAZYDOVE@aol.com) Date: Thu Dec 30 20:13:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Eastern United States Tsunami imminent Message-ID: <1d4.32b7845e.2f062be4@aol.com> >From a lurker.....I've been keeping watch on that Volcano, ever since seeing a special on one of the "nature" channels on cable. They explained about the slide it would produce if it blows..and the tsunami that would head towards the eastern coast of the U.S. Here's the website......Click here: CVO Menu - Canary Islands Volcanoes and Volcanics Jackie --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From CRAZYDOVE at aol.com Thu Dec 30 20:15:52 2004 From: CRAZYDOVE at aol.com (CRAZYDOVE@aol.com) Date: Thu Dec 30 20:15:57 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Check out La Palma, Canary Islands Message-ID: <1f3.3b8b526.2f062c78@aol.com> Here are some pictures of the volcano! Jackie Click here: La Palma, Canary Islands --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jpjunk at mc.net Thu Dec 30 22:03:48 2004 From: jpjunk at mc.net (jjunkroski) Date: Thu Dec 30 22:02:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake In-Reply-To: <200412291135.iBTBZV8G020004@outmx009.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: Thanks Rik, I'm never quite sure if people will understand my e-mails. This one seems to have gotten my point across, although I haven't heard from the person to whom it was addressed, I received a couple of very nice notes like yours. My hope for the new year is that more of us try to look at the world with a little broader perspective, and try to understand the viewpoint of the " other guy ". Happy New Year to all, lift a glass and laugh out loud. Junk on 12/29/04 5:35 AM, Rik Dillen at rik.dillen@skynet.be wrote: > Amen. John, you said exactly what I was thinking too. Too much emphasis on > "poor" tourists (being a tourist is not a crime though, I'm every year at > least once one of them ;>) and not enough understanding of the local > situations. From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Thu Dec 30 22:25:12 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Thu Dec 30 22:16:15 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Check out La Palma, Canary Islands References: <1f3.3b8b526.2f062c78@aol.com> Message-ID: <00bb01c4ef01$7cdbc580$dca4490c@pete> I'm sure you've noticed, your links are not working, Jackie (namely, they aren't there at all!) Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 9:15 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Check out La Palma, Canary Islands > Here are some pictures of the volcano! > Jackie > > Click here: La Palma, Canary Islands > > From kahako at aloha.net Thu Dec 30 23:18:35 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Dec 30 22:48:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Eastern United States Tsunami imminent In-Reply-To: <002701c4ee4d$71126560$0100a8c0@Shabon01> References: <002701c4ee4d$71126560$0100a8c0@Shabon01> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041230183342.044feeb0@mail.aloha.net> Dear "Rockhound"---(you didn't sign your name), May I make a gentle recommendation that phrases like "tsunami imminent" and "tsunami early warning notice" not be used in a time when a large part of the world is terrified of immediate disaster, possibly from after-shocks in the Indian Ocean. I appreciate getting your information, but please don't run the risk of making people panic, or triggering more nightmares for those of us who have friends or family affected by the present disaster. Phrases like "possible in the not too distant future," or "additional tsunami concern" might be less alarmist. Aloha, Kitty At 10:56 PM 12/29/2004, you wrote: >I am not aware of what is shown on US television, so don't know if this is >news to any of our American members out there, but the Eastern Seabord of >the US of A is due to be hit by a major Tsunami. In geological and even >historical timescales, one side of the Island of Tenerife is looking >particularly ropey, and when it stops hanging on, not only will the island >change, but there will likely be a trunami generated when it slides into >the sea. There is an existing fault running through the island, and the >magma chamber is still active. > >We here in the UK could also suffer somewhat, but just imagine is >something like the Asian Tsunami clouted some of our modern westren cities >unannounced and definitely uninvited. I would imagine many subway systems >inundated and the loss of life there alone would be huge. > >I digress, this is just a Tsunami early warning notice. > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.6 - Release Date: 12/28/2004 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004 From kahako at aloha.net Fri Dec 31 00:20:40 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Dec 30 23:50:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] rock formations & tsunamis In-Reply-To: <41D391D2.7010601@rcn.com> References: <3k70mg$joqmtu@mxip15a.cluster1.charter.net> <41D391D2.7010601@rcn.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041229194449.082a2a40@mail.aloha.net> On April 1, 1946 a tsunami swept across Laupahoehoe point here on the Big Island, and wiped away nearly every building, including the original Laupahoehoe School. Over 120 people were killed, most of whose bodies were never found. I taught for many years at the "new" Laupahoehoe School, built at a safe location well above the present coastal highway. On that same day, in the town of Hilo, people ran out into the bay when the water receded and gleefully picked up fish that were flopping around on the sand. I read that people in various locations in the Indian Ocean did just the same thing on December 26, 2004. Aloha, Kitty At 07:27 PM 12/29/2004, you wrote: >I think that it was in U.S.A. Today that I read that 'some people' were >checking out the (unusual?) rock formationson the ocean floor when the >water receded 600 feet.... thinking that cause of the tide going out was >from the full moon..... Others did not realize the significance and were >curious... so came down to see. > >I remember several years ago when I was living in Monterey, California - I >do not recall the year - late 50's or early 60's - several people WENT TO >THE BEACH to see a possible Tsunami that was predicted.... > > GeorgiaO > > >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.6 - Release Date: 12/28/2004 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004 From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 31 06:15:38 2004 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Fri Dec 31 06:15:41 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041231141538.38727.qmail@web51001.mail.yahoo.com> A very good point, and one we all seem to forget. Rather than speaking of a mineral fluorescing under LW or SW, it would be better to give the characteristic wavelength (or range) that excites it. I suspect that sort of information just isn't available, though. Jim Daly --- Axel Emmermann wrote: > I think we should look upon UV as a continuous > spectrum in which many > minerals have there optimal exiting band of > wavelengths. We have only three > narrow bands at our disposal... > > Cheers > Axel __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? http://my.yahoo.com From CRAZYDOVE at aol.com Fri Dec 31 06:20:44 2004 From: CRAZYDOVE at aol.com (CRAZYDOVE@aol.com) Date: Fri Dec 31 06:20:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Check out La Palma, Canary Islands Message-ID: <88.1d13ca7d.2f06ba3c@aol.com> Sorry Pete..I'll try to put them in the email the regular way..unless no one is interested! Sorry about that..duh!!! Jackie --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Dec 31 06:57:29 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Dec 31 06:56:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: <20041231141538.38727.qmail@web51001.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I would be as bold as to expand the spectrum from blue-green light to the far end of gamma-rays. ;-))) Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jim Daly Verzonden: vrijdag 31 december 2004 15:16 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence A very good point, and one we all seem to forget. Rather than speaking of a mineral fluorescing under LW or SW, it would be better to give the characteristic wavelength (or range) that excites it. I suspect that sort of information just isn't available, though. Jim Daly --- Axel Emmermann wrote: > I think we should look upon UV as a continuous > spectrum in which many > minerals have there optimal exiting band of > wavelengths. We have only three > narrow bands at our disposal... > > Cheers > Axel __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? http://my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Dec 31 07:03:54 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Dec 31 07:03:25 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Eastern United States Tsunami imminent In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20041230183342.044feeb0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: Well said Kitty... remember the panic that was caused by just the dramatic voice of Orson Welles reading the radio play "War of the Worlds"... Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kitty & Bill Heacox Verzonden: vrijdag 31 december 2004 8:19 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Eastern United States Tsunami imminent Dear "Rockhound"---(you didn't sign your name), May I make a gentle recommendation that phrases like "tsunami imminent" and "tsunami early warning notice" not be used in a time when a large part of the world is terrified of immediate disaster, possibly from after-shocks in the Indian Ocean. I appreciate getting your information, but please don't run the risk of making people panic, or triggering more nightmares for those of us who have friends or family affected by the present disaster. Phrases like "possible in the not too distant future," or "additional tsunami concern" might be less alarmist. Aloha, Kitty At 10:56 PM 12/29/2004, you wrote: >I am not aware of what is shown on US television, so don't know if this is >news to any of our American members out there, but the Eastern Seabord of >the US of A is due to be hit by a major Tsunami. In geological and even >historical timescales, one side of the Island of Tenerife is looking >particularly ropey, and when it stops hanging on, not only will the island >change, but there will likely be a trunami generated when it slides into >the sea. There is an existing fault running through the island, and the >magma chamber is still active. > >We here in the UK could also suffer somewhat, but just imagine is >something like the Asian Tsunami clouted some of our modern westren cities >unannounced and definitely uninvited. I would imagine many subway systems >inundated and the loss of life there alone would be huge. > >I digress, this is just a Tsunami early warning notice. > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.6 - Release Date: 12/28/2004 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004 _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Fri Dec 31 07:31:14 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Fri Dec 31 07:22:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tsunami postscript again Message-ID: <001801c4ef4d$c4d61060$0ca5490c@pete> Our local (Denver) paper this morning has some very good stories about how scientists in Australia, Hawaii, Golden, Seattle, and elsewhere all wanted or tried to warn more of the world about the tsunami, but just did not have any means in place to enable them to effectively do it. These are AP stories, so I'm sure they appear similarly in many papers and online. They do a good job of explaining the reasons why the warnings fell short of what might have been done, and how frustrated the scientists were in not being able to do more. Well... turn to the future, and wish a good day and a good year to all! As the TV news pointed out this morning--it's already 2005 in Australia! Pete Modreski, Denver CO --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Dec 31 07:45:30 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Dec 31 07:45:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: <003501c4eed1$9ae08f00$dca4490c@pete> Message-ID: Hi Pete, >now we can argue about how many minerals do which! But wouldn't >you still say that, "on average", there aren't nearly as many minerals that >fl. brightly under LW, and SW? Yes that is true and also quite logical... >(Of course, I'm always biased by the >preponderance of Franklin/Sterling Hill specimens in displays or >collections, most of which need SW to fluoresce brightly.) Some of the F/SH calcites respond with a weird violet fluorescence under LW (blacklight with woods glass mantle, unfiltered). You'd miss that if you would limit yourself to SW only ;-)))) >And to be honest, although I have a MW lamp, I really don't use it all that >much, and I don't look at as many of my specimens with it as I should. When >I bought it I got one (made by UVP) that is just MW; if I had to do it >again, I'd get one that was one bulb SW, one bulb MW; then I'd toggle back >and forth to MW after using the SW lamp, and I'll bet I'd use it a lot more. My MW lamp is still in disassembled state... I cannibalized it for the display of our annual show. I distinctly remember however that most of my specimens (both in the LW and SW display) went completely bananas under MW. My Chinese scheelite fluoresces medium bright tan under SW while light blue under SW and weak brown under LW... Powellite fluoresces MUCH stronger in MW than in SW... So does cupro-scheelite. On of these days I'll call my cousin-in-law. He has some contacts at one of the major lamp manufacturers. It would be interesting to design a custom filled halogen lamp with added salts and gases to pump up the volume and bandwidth of the output UV. Remember, ours is a community without established rights in UV-land... we thrive by the grace of other users with specific needs (curing of ink, disinfections, skin treatment, water purification, etc). There are no lamps or phosphors especially made for us. There are only reasonably good approximations of what we need thanks to clever manufacturers... I think we would welcome a set of say 3 lamps that range from 380 nm to 254.6 without gaps. I know I would ;-))) Cheers Axel From dmschmidt at sprint.ca Fri Dec 31 07:48:52 2004 From: dmschmidt at sprint.ca (michael schmidt) Date: Fri Dec 31 07:48:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tsunami postscript again References: <001801c4ef4d$c4d61060$0ca5490c@pete> Message-ID: <00c801c4ef50$3a9ebc00$64525318@johnny> there was an article here in a paper in which a local author was interviewed. I can't remember exactly what his field of research was, but it was something to do with tsunamis/earthquake events..... he predicted this exact scenario about 5 years ago but, big surprise, pretty much no one in the right circles listened. In the article he went on to explain that for less than $4 million USD, an early warning system could have been in place using existing cellular technologies. The region of Thailand that was decimated was worth how many billions per year to the Thai government in tourism revenues....yet a couple of million dollars for "insurance" wasn't a concern. seems typical. You have governments that seem to worry little about this type of thing.....but now that there are 100,000+ dead (a number that could possibly have been dramaticly reduced by such a system) everyone stands up and takes notice that this type of thing could happen.... too bad 150,000 people have to die before someone realises that Chicken Little may actually have a point. $4 million is a drop in the bucket in comparison to what this is going to cost to sort out. what do you want to bet within a few months there being an early warning system in place for the next such occurence??? Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" To: "Rockhounds@Lists.Drizzle.Com" Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 7:31 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Tsunami postscript again Our local (Denver) paper this morning has some very good stories about how scientists in Australia, Hawaii, Golden, Seattle, and elsewhere all wanted or tried to warn more of the world about the tsunami, but just did not have any means in place to enable them to effectively do it. These are AP stories, so I'm sure they appear similarly in many papers and online. They do a good job of explaining the reasons why the warnings fell short of what might have been done, and how frustrated the scientists were in not being able to do more. Well... turn to the future, and wish a good day and a good year to all! As the TV news pointed out this morning--it's already 2005 in Australia! Pete Modreski, Denver CO --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jbryankramer at msn.com Fri Dec 31 08:42:42 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Dec 31 08:42:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tsunami postscript again In-Reply-To: <001801c4ef4d$c4d61060$0ca5490c@pete> Message-ID: Well it turns out that in Thailand they had a meeting to decide whether to issue a warning 60 to 90 minutes before the tsunami hit the country. The government body was staffed by *meteorologists* and they decided not to issue a warning since it would damage the tourist industry if it was a false alarm. Bryan -------Original Message----- -- --Our local (Denver) paper this morning has some very good --stories about how scientists in Australia, Hawaii, Golden, --Seattle, and elsewhere all wanted or tried to warn more of --the world about the tsunami, but just did not have any means --in place to enable them to effectively do it. These are AP --stories, so I'm sure they appear similarly in many papers and --online. They do a good job of explaining the reasons why the --warnings fell short of what might have been done, and how --frustrated the scientists were in not being able to do more. -- --Well... turn to the future, and wish a good day and a good --year to all! As the TV news pointed out this morning--it's --already 2005 in Australia! -- --Pete Modreski, Denver CO -- -- ----- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative -- text/plain (text body -- kept) -- text/html ----- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- From morningstar at att.net Fri Dec 31 09:06:33 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Fri Dec 31 09:04:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: <20041231141538.38727.qmail@web51001.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041231141538.38727.qmail@web51001.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <41D58719.3080303@att.net> Jim Daly wrote: > A very good point, and one we all seem to forget. > Rather than speaking of a mineral fluorescing under LW > or SW, it would be better to give the characteristic > wavelength (or range) that excites it. I suspect that > sort of information just isn't available, though. > Jim Daly Actually, I can help there. As I found out, it's not that "it hasn't been done," it simply isn't widely available. Scientists like George Rossman and Glenn Waychunas, whose names are known among fluorescent mineral collectors, do spectral research as part of their profession. However, their papers usually circulate in particular circles and are not widely disseminated among collectors, nor even among scientists outside that specialty. At the museum (Thomas S. Warren Museum of Fluorescence), we began a similar project four years ago. The idea was to "map" or "fingerprint" the responses of minerals over as wide a range of excitation as possible. Th neat thing about science is that it's OK to be wrong, when in the end you have proof that your theories are incorrect, and can say "well I thought it was X but here I've shown that X is wrong, so now we know for certain that X is false and here is the evidence." People well-known in the fluorescent world, notably Don Newsome, Dick Bostwick, and Earl Verbeek, already knew some of the things I would find, but let me find out for myself. So here are some results that address the items in this thread. We borrowed an instrument called a spectrophotometer, a Varian Cary Eclipse model that can excite from 190nm (deep shortwave) to about 1100 nm (well into the near-infrared). The instrument has a high resolution and sensitivity, but it was designed for analyzing liquids in cuvettes, so there were some things we couldn't do. Overall, though, we discovered a lot. 1. Presumption: You can identify fluorescent minerals by their emission pattern. This is FALSE. When you measure the excitation of a specimen, you are measuring the response of its activators and co-activators. The composition of the mineral itself sometimes has little to do with the output, except when elements of the mineral are co-activators, or in the case of self-fluorescing minerals, like scheelite (calcium tungstate), in which the polyatomic tungstate ion is described as "self-fluorescing." In other words, you can take pure calcite and pure fluorite, and these will not fluoresce. However, with certain quantities of impurity (i.e., activator(s)) present, the minerals will fluoresce. However, that color depends upon whether your activator is manganese, europium, samarium, etc. (It also depends upon the valence state of the element, but we won't go into that detail here). Therefore, when you are analyzing a manganese-activated calcite, you are looking at the emission curve for manganese, but you have no way of knowing from that whether it is in calcite or some other mineral. The uranyl ion is a perfect example of that point: this complex ion is the cause of green fluorescence in opals, chalcedonies, and other minerals world-wide. It has a distinct "five-fingered" output pattern, centered in the green, that you can easily observe with a $25 diffraction-grating spectroscope (I think Axel has photos of this). However, once you see the tell-tale uranyl pattern, you still don't know much about the mineral species in which it is contained. The disulfide ion is another activator with a distinct pattern, common in the variety wernerite and some sodalites, though it is subtle and I suspect you would need a research instrument to really see the tiny "shoulder" peaks on each side of the main curve. 2. Presumption: Each activator has a specific wavelength that excites it. This is FALSE. This fact is quite relevant to this thread, and it brings good news. I had imagined that, for example, Franklin calcite responds to a narrow band of energy near the 253.7 nm peak (this is the peak emitted by shortwave lights). I couldn't have been more wrong about that. The instrument allows you to run an "excitation scan," with parameters you set yourself. For example, you can tell it to excite the specimen from 190 nm to 400 nm in 5 nm increments, and record the fluorescence. When you do this, you see that most minerals begin with a weak response at a certain wavelength--let's make up an example, say, 210 nm--and then the response grows stronger, until it reaches a peak--let's say, for example, 270 nm--and then begins to fall off again. Some minerals, like the locally-named "apple green" variety of willemite from Franklin, have a very wide response range. There is a reason it is a bright apple-green in daylight: it is fluorescing from the blue-green light! In fact, its peak output occurs not in SW, not MW, not LW, but somewhere around an excitation of 530 nm (I forget the exact wavelength at the moment). Some minerals have shorter excitation ranges, but none of them that I tested respond to a very narrow band. Why is this good news? Well, if you have four lights: SW (shortwave, ~254 nm), MW (medium wave, ~310 nm), LW350 (long wave, ~350 nm), and LW370 (long wave, 370 nm), you are bound to see the range of responses for your minerals and be generally confident you aren't missing anything (more on this in a minute). Now, you might not get the peak emissions out of them--for example, some mineral might have a peak emission when excited at 330 nm, so you won't see its full glory using the 4 lights above, but then again you might not notice the difference if you did see it at its peak. There is a side note here. Our eyes only see from approximately 400nm to 700 nm. Nature, on the other hand, doesn't care what you can see. Some minerals actually fluoresce in the UV itself, or in the IR. For example, hardystonite fluoresces violet, but if you look at the output on a instrument, you will see the emission curve extends down into the long wave. This blew my mind the first time I saw it, but as my brother pointed out (I should mention he works for the company that loaned us the instrument), why should that surprise us? There is all sorts of invisible energy all around us. Witherite, Terlingua calcite, and some blue-fluorescing fluorites are other minerals that emit LW when excited by SW. On the other side of the spectrum, some minerals like ruby and, I believe, Seilles fluorite (shout-out to the Belgians), emit near-IR when excited by LW. I should also offer another side note: there is a principle called the Stokes shift. It says, simply put, that the energy of emission is always less than the energy of excitation. For example, if you light a mineral with 300 nm, and it fluoresces green peaking at 600 nm, then we say the peak has a 300 nm Stokes shift. Some excitation/emission responses have a very short Stokes shift (i.e., the witherite excited by SW and giving off LW), and some have a long Stokes shift (i.e., ruby excited by LW and emitting red and near-IR up to 730 nm or more). One more side note, for anyone reading this far: it is possible to see near-IR fluorescence with a $50 black-and-white camera, a $25 IR filter, and a television set that takes input. I find this fascinating, but others may think it is boring because you only see a glowing rock in B&W. I'm not certain if I'll make the Rochester Mineralogical Symposium this year, but if I do, I'll bring my IR setup and I can show IR luminescence to any list members who might want to attend. Well I hope this has been of some use in the discussion, and I hope it eases some people's minds that they aren't missing as much as they think they are with the equipment that they have. Don H From rocks4u at prodigy.net Fri Dec 31 09:33:18 2004 From: rocks4u at prodigy.net (rocks4u@prodigy.net) Date: Fri Dec 31 09:35:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence References: Message-ID: <008e01c4ef5e$d1668e20$8291fea9@WesMedion1918> You can exactly what you want at http://www.fluorescents.com/ If he doesn't have the exact item he can make it for you. Cheers! Wes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 7:45 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > Hi Pete, > >>now we can argue about how many minerals do which! But wouldn't >>you still say that, "on average", there aren't nearly as many minerals >>that >>fl. brightly under LW, and SW? > > Yes that is true and also quite logical... > >>(Of course, I'm always biased by the >>preponderance of Franklin/Sterling Hill specimens in displays or >>collections, most of which need SW to fluoresce brightly.) > > Some of the F/SH calcites respond with a weird violet fluorescence under > LW > (blacklight with woods glass mantle, unfiltered). You'd miss that if you > would limit yourself to SW only ;-)))) > > >>And to be honest, although I have a MW lamp, I really don't use it all >>that >>much, and I don't look at as many of my specimens with it as I should. > When >>I bought it I got one (made by UVP) that is just MW; if I had to do it >>again, I'd get one that was one bulb SW, one bulb MW; then I'd toggle back >>and forth to MW after using the SW lamp, and I'll bet I'd use it a lot > more. > > My MW lamp is still in disassembled state... I cannibalized it for the > display of our annual show. I distinctly remember however that most of my > specimens (both in the LW and SW display) went completely bananas under > MW. > My Chinese scheelite fluoresces medium bright tan under SW while light > blue > under SW and weak brown under LW... Powellite fluoresces MUCH stronger in > MW > than in SW... So does cupro-scheelite. > > On of these days I'll call my cousin-in-law. He has some contacts at one > of > the major lamp manufacturers. It would be interesting to design a custom > filled halogen lamp with added salts and gases to pump up the volume and > bandwidth of the output UV. > Remember, ours is a community without established rights in UV-land... we > thrive by the grace of other users with specific needs (curing of ink, > disinfections, skin treatment, water purification, etc). There are no > lamps > or phosphors especially made for us. There are only reasonably good > approximations of what we need thanks to clever manufacturers... > I think we would welcome a set of say 3 lamps that range from 380 nm to > 254.6 without gaps. I know I would ;-))) > > Cheers > > Axel > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From hptdesigns at charter.net Fri Dec 31 10:32:13 2004 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Fri Dec 31 10:26:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: <41D58719.3080303@att.net> Message-ID: <3k77vd$fbj428@mxip10a.cluster1.charter.net> Good stuff Don. Tommy Armstrong N 35* 23' 52'' W 78* 49' 9'' > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Don H > Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 12:07 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > Jim Daly wrote: > > A very good point, and one we all seem to forget. > > Rather than speaking of a mineral fluorescing under LW or > SW, it would > > be better to give the characteristic wavelength (or range) that > > excites it. I suspect that sort of information just isn't > available, > > though. > > Jim Daly > > > Actually, I can help there. As I found out, it's not that > "it hasn't been done," it simply isn't widely available. > Scientists like George Rossman and Glenn Waychunas, whose > names are known among fluorescent mineral collectors, do > spectral research as part of their profession. > However, their papers usually circulate in particular circles > and are not widely disseminated among collectors, nor even > among scientists outside that specialty. > > At the museum (Thomas S. Warren Museum of Fluorescence), we > began a similar project four years ago. The idea was to > "map" or "fingerprint" > the responses of minerals over as wide a range of excitation > as possible. Th neat thing about science is that it's OK to > be wrong, when > in the end you have proof that your theories are incorrect, > and can say "well I thought it was X but here I've shown that > X is wrong, so now we know for certain that X is false and > here is the evidence." People well-known in the fluorescent > world, notably Don Newsome, Dick Bostwick, and Earl Verbeek, > already knew some of the things I would find, but let me find > out for myself. So here are some results that address the > items in this thread. > > We borrowed an instrument called a spectrophotometer, a > Varian Cary Eclipse model that can excite from 190nm (deep > shortwave) to about 1100 nm (well into the near-infrared). > The instrument has a high resolution and sensitivity, but it > was designed for analyzing liquids in cuvettes, so there were > some things we couldn't do. Overall, though, we discovered a lot. > > 1. Presumption: You can identify fluorescent minerals by > their emission pattern. This is FALSE. When you measure the > excitation of a specimen, you are measuring the response of > its activators and co-activators. The composition of the > mineral itself sometimes has little to do with the output, > except when elements of the mineral are co-activators, or in > the case of self-fluorescing minerals, like scheelite > (calcium tungstate), in which the polyatomic tungstate ion is > described as "self-fluorescing." In other words, you can > take pure calcite and pure fluorite, and these will not > fluoresce. However, with certain quantities of impurity > (i.e., activator(s)) present, the minerals will fluoresce. > However, that color depends upon whether your activator is > manganese, europium, samarium, etc. (It also depends upon the > valence state of the element, but we won't go into that > detail here). Therefore, when you are analyzing a > manganese-activated calcite, you are looking at the emission > curve for manganese, but you have no way of knowing from that > whether it is in calcite or some other mineral. > The uranyl ion is a perfect example of that point: this > complex ion is the cause of green fluorescence in opals, > chalcedonies, and other minerals world-wide. It has a > distinct "five-fingered" output pattern, centered in the > green, that you can easily observe with a $25 > diffraction-grating spectroscope (I think Axel has photos of this). > However, once you see the tell-tale uranyl pattern, you still > don't know much about the mineral species in which it is > contained. The disulfide ion is another activator with a > distinct pattern, common in the variety wernerite and some > sodalites, though it is subtle and I suspect you would need a > research instrument to really see the tiny "shoulder" peaks > on each side of the main curve. > > 2. Presumption: Each activator has a specific wavelength > that excites it. This is FALSE. This fact is quite relevant > to this thread, and it brings good news. I had imagined > that, for example, Franklin calcite responds to a narrow band > of energy near the 253.7 nm peak (this is the peak emitted by > shortwave lights). I couldn't have been more wrong about > that. The instrument allows you to run an "excitation scan," > with parameters you set yourself. For example, you can tell > it to excite the specimen from 190 nm to 400 nm in 5 nm > increments, and record the fluorescence. When you do this, > you see that most minerals begin with a weak response at a > certain wavelength--let's make up an example, say, 210 > nm--and then the response grows stronger, until it reaches a > peak--let's say, for example, 270 nm--and then begins to fall > off again. > Some minerals, like the locally-named "apple green" variety > of willemite from Franklin, have a very wide response range. > There is a reason it is a bright apple-green in daylight: it > is fluorescing from the blue-green light! In fact, its peak > output occurs not in SW, not MW, not LW, but somewhere around > an excitation of 530 nm (I forget the exact wavelength at the > moment). Some minerals have shorter excitation ranges, but > none of them that I tested respond to a very narrow band. > Why is this good news? Well, if you have four lights: SW (shortwave, > ~254 nm), MW (medium wave, ~310 nm), LW350 (long wave, ~350 > nm), and LW370 (long wave, 370 nm), you are bound to see the > range of responses for your minerals and be generally > confident you aren't missing anything (more on this in a > minute). Now, you might not get the peak emissions out of > them--for example, some mineral might have a peak emission > when excited at 330 nm, so you won't see its full glory using > the 4 lights above, but then again you might not notice the > difference if you did see it at its peak. > > There is a side note here. Our eyes only see from > approximately 400nm to 700 nm. Nature, on the other hand, > doesn't care what you can see. > Some minerals actually fluoresce in the UV itself, or in the > IR. For example, hardystonite fluoresces violet, but if you > look at the output on a instrument, you will see the emission > curve extends down into the long wave. This blew my mind the > first time I saw it, but as my brother pointed out (I should > mention he works for the company that loaned us the > instrument), why should that surprise us? There is all sorts > of invisible energy all around us. Witherite, Terlingua > calcite, and some blue-fluorescing fluorites are other > minerals that emit LW when excited by SW. On the other side > of the spectrum, some minerals like ruby and, I believe, > Seilles fluorite (shout-out to the Belgians), emit near-IR > when excited by LW. > > I should also offer another side note: there is a principle > called the Stokes shift. It says, simply put, that the > energy of emission is always less than the energy of > excitation. For example, if you light a mineral with 300 nm, > and it fluoresces green peaking at 600 nm, then we say the > peak has a 300 nm Stokes shift. Some excitation/emission > responses have a very short Stokes shift (i.e., the witherite > excited by SW and giving off LW), and some have a long Stokes > shift (i.e., ruby excited by LW and emitting red and near-IR > up to 730 nm or more). > > One more side note, for anyone reading this far: it is > possible to see near-IR fluorescence with a $50 > black-and-white camera, a $25 IR filter, and a television set > that takes input. I find this fascinating, but others may > think it is boring because you only see a glowing rock in > B&W. I'm not certain if I'll make the Rochester > Mineralogical Symposium this year, but if I do, I'll bring my > IR setup and I can show IR luminescence to any list members > who might want to attend. > > Well I hope this has been of some use in the discussion, and > I hope it eases some people's minds that they aren't missing > as much as they think they are with the equipment that they have. > > > Don H > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From morningstar at att.net Fri Dec 31 10:34:43 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Fri Dec 31 10:32:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence (part II) In-Reply-To: <41D58719.3080303@att.net> References: <20041231141538.38727.qmail@web51001.mail.yahoo.com> <41D58719.3080303@att.net> Message-ID: <41D59BC3.7040008@att.net> Don H wrote: > Jim Daly wrote: > >> A very good point, and one we all seem to forget. >> Rather than speaking of a mineral fluorescing under LW >> or SW, it would be better to give the characteristic >> wavelength (or range) that excites it. By the way, in my last epic, I forgot to mention one of the end results of all these experiments. We felt that it would be quite practical to mount lamps from all 4 common wavelengths in an enclosure, and test all the minerals in the reference collection. Then we would record the results and publish them. This would go a long way toward helping collectors know what possibilities they had in their collection, and whether it was even worth buying a MW or LW370 light, based upon what they could expect or not expect to see. There have been some delays: first, a major construction project at the museum put the unit on hold, and then we had to develop a robust data model to hold all the information, since there was nothing out there for it (that's the database that Tommy Armstrong finished and has been discussed in other threads). This information includes the species and *the locality*, as well as the lights used, and the nature of the fluorescence and phosphorescence. However, this WILL be done, and in fact we plan to get the unit finished this winter (along with the database and the user's maual for it). Take care, Don From kadok at infowest.com Fri Dec 31 10:57:43 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Fri Dec 31 10:57:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041231185743.CDE69CBA5EB@delivery.infowest.com> I agree, Axel. It IS a continuous spectrum. Who knows, maybe the great majority of minerals do excite at some wavelength, perhaps very narrow. It we had light of all wavelengths at our disposal, and with means to make the band very narrow, perhaps it could turn out to be a good and simple means of identifying many minerals! Or am I way out in left field? Margaret ----I think we should look upon UV as a continuous spectrum in which many minerals have there optimal exiting band of wavelengths. We have only three narrow bands at our disposal... Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Peter J. Modreski Verzonden: woensdag 29 december 2004 19:14 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence Brenda, Most rubies fluoresce red, under long-wave ultraviolet light; an exception among minerals, because long-wave UV lamps are the less expensive kind. Some rubies are brighter than others. Yes, you should get a lamp and check out all your ruby crystals! One of many good places to start for more information is the Fluorescent Mineral Society website, http://www.uvminerals.org/ Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda LaCroix" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Minedat > NO....I have never put a blacklight on it.....should I?!?!?!? > > What would I be looking for if I did....LOL!!! I have read that rubies can flouresce (sp?), is that right?? Is that what I would > be looking for?? > > Where does one go about getting a blacklight, or finding someone who has one that I could use momentarily?? I certainly wouldn't > need to buy one, would I??? Or maybe it is something that is needed to be a rockhound?? hehehe!!! > > Very interested..... > Brenda _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Fri Dec 31 10:57:17 2004 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Fri Dec 31 11:06:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake References: Message-ID: <000201c4ef6b$d1a18860$2d4227c4@privatehome> Hi Bryan, Made a similar mistake some time ago. Arte you really older than 195 years? Horst ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 2:56 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake > To answer my own question, it was Tambora in 1815 (the year without a > summer) and it cause sea level rises of about 3-4 meters. Also located in > Indonesia. > > Bryan > > -------Original Message----- > -- > --I think it depends on the type of motion generated by that > --earthquake. Quakes with a large vertical motion tend to make tsunamis. > -- > -- As for the frequency of tsunamis in the Indian ocean...they > --had a government official from the Maldives on NPR tonight > --who said that they had a small tsunami in 1987, the Krakatoa > --explosion generated a large tsunami (30 to 40 meters high, > --much larger than this one) in the 1800's so the every couple > --hundred years theory seems unlikely. Wasn't there another > --volcanic event around the time of Krakatoa in te same area? > -- > --Bryan > -- > -- > ---------Original Message----- > ---- > ---- > ----BUT when one hears of, or feels an earthquake, especially one > ----offshore, doesn't it logically preclude a tsunami event of > ----some magnitude SOMEWHERE? As soon as I saw the first notice > ----online about an 8.5 earthquake off Sumatra, I thought to > ----myself where will the tidal wave hit? If the news services > ----had picked up on the earthquake immediately, I don't see how > ----the awareness of a possible tidal wave didn't occur to the > ----civil authorities in every one of those coastal villages and > ----towns. Even if the Pacific gets the majority of > ----earthquake---->tidal wave occurrences. Wouldn't an 8.5 in the > ----Indian Ocean alarm you if you were in that neighborhood?? It > ----wouldn't take "million dollar sensors" to make me head for > ----high ground, especially in an island nation. > ---- > ----Jeanette > ---- > ----> Actually there was a discussion of this on NPR this morning. > ----> > ----> Short story: At this time they believe tsunamis occur in > --the Indian > ----> Ocean on the order of one every FEW HUNDRED years, whereas the > ----> frequency in the Pacific Ocean is one every few years or > --a decade. > ----> Consequently, up to now the danger has not seemed urgent. Also > ----> consequently, whereas all the Pacific Rim countries have specific > ----> agencies and mechanisms in place to alert people to the dangers, > ----> countries around the Indian Ocean do not have such centralized > ----> agencies; therefore, there was actually no one to call to > --alert the > ----> whole country. The experts say that for "millions of > ----dollars" sensors > ----> could be placed on the floor of the Indian Ocean just like in the > ----> Pacific Ocean. But with the periodicity ranging to hundreds > ----of years, > ----> how long would the countries responsible for maintaining > ----the sensors > ----> and the civil alert system pay attention? Years? Decades? > ----> Centuries???? > ----> > ----> > ----> > ----> Brenda LaCroix wrote: > ----> > ----> >While I understand both of those things (grin)....what I don't > ----> >understand > ----is why no one picked up a phone to tell anyone anything!!! > ----> >That is what is boggling my mind, I guess....they have > --tv stations > ----> >and > ----news stations...India is a very commercialized country, > ----> >considering the area. > ----> >Brenda > ---->/rockhounds > ---- > ----_______________________________________________ > ----Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > ----WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > ----Subscription Services: > ----http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > ---- > -- > -- > --_______________________________________________ > --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > --Subscription Services: > --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > -- > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Fri Dec 31 11:16:57 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Fri Dec 31 11:07:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence References: <20041231185743.CDE69CBA5EB@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: <002501c4ef6d$4cb7bc80$03a5490c@pete> A possible means of identifying minerals, but probably not "simple". Partly for the reason Don noted, that most of the luminescence spectrum is determined by the activator(s), not the base mineral. Other existing means of identifying minerals are probably more convenient and more positive, and already "worked out", such as infrared spectra, and of course, X-ray diffraction. XRD, of course, requires removing & grinding up a small fragment of the mineral. Spectroscopy can, ideally, be done on a surface of a mineral sample "as is". Instruments exist (I've never used one myself) where one simply scans a rock sample with hand-held instrument which records the IR spectrum (reflectance spectrum) , and matches it to the spectra of known minerals! Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margaret Malm" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 11:57 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > I agree, Axel. It IS a continuous spectrum. Who knows, maybe the great > majority of minerals do excite at some wavelength, perhaps very narrow. It > we had light of all wavelengths at our disposal, and with means to make the > band very narrow, perhaps it could turn out to be a good and simple means of > identifying many minerals! > > Or am I way out in left field? > > Margaret > > ----I think we should look upon UV as a continuous spectrum in which many > minerals have there optimal exiting band of wavelengths. We have only three > narrow bands at our disposal... > > Cheers > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Peter J. Modreski > Verzonden: woensdag 29 december 2004 19:14 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > > Brenda, > > Most rubies fluoresce red, under long-wave ultraviolet light; an exception > among minerals, because long-wave UV lamps are the less expensive kind. > Some rubies are brighter than others. Yes, you should get a lamp and check > out all your ruby crystals! > > One of many good places to start for more information is the Fluorescent > Mineral Society website, > > http://www.uvminerals.org/ > > Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brenda LaCroix" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:56 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Minedat > > > > > NO....I have never put a blacklight on it.....should I?!?!?!? > > > > What would I be looking for if I did....LOL!!! I have read that rubies > can flouresce (sp?), is that right?? Is that what I would > > be looking for?? > > > > Where does one go about getting a blacklight, or finding someone who has > one that I could use momentarily?? I certainly wouldn't > > need to buy one, would I??? Or maybe it is something that is needed to be > a rockhound?? hehehe!!! > > > > Very interested..... > > Brenda > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kadok at infowest.com Fri Dec 31 11:19:34 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Fri Dec 31 11:19:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] postscript about tsunami warnings In-Reply-To: <003601c4eec4$b203a300$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <20041231191934.E23C1CBA62F@delivery.infowest.com> Maurice, you should "subscribe" to the National Earthquake Information Center. (send an e-mail to majordomo@ghtmail.er.usgs.gov In the body (NOT the subject line) of the message just put subscribe bigquake The send you notifications (and a lot of information on) of all the big quakes (and even some smaller ones if they are in the U.S.) that are picked up by our measuring equipment. After watching it for a while, you will soon find that (especially at certain times of the year, it seems like, at least to me), there are actually a considerable number of large quakes, especially in the Pacific Ocean region. South America, Japan, there's a fairly active fault in the New Zealand, etc. A lot of the time they are offshore. (And they've picked up the ones in Turkey and reported them too. I don't think the crust ever really stops moving, and I think the large movements are really a lot more common than most people are aware of. And Jeanette -- I think you could get a lot of that info from the USGS site. But, of course, since the quakes are continuing, today isn't going to be the same as yesterday! Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Jeanette Wimpee Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 4:10 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] postscript about tsunami warnings I want to know exactly how much changed down there where the epicenter was, did the landscape of the seafloor change, and GPS coordinates of the islands themselves. And with a terrific jolt like that in ONE place, how will that affect other faults. What about the effect on the planet? I wonder if the tilt of the earth changed any, and is the change in day length permanent? Anyone have the link to articles about the planet changes? Jeanette > I find it astonishing that half way around the planet there is still so > much movement in the crust. > > Cheers, > Maurice > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Bozo5 at aol.com Fri Dec 31 11:45:07 2004 From: Bozo5 at aol.com (Bozo5@aol.com) Date: Fri Dec 31 11:45:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence Message-ID: An explanation of "tunable" lasers I recently received might be of interest. I had always thought that these light absorbing and emitting events were narrow bands determined by the electron orbital energy levels available to electrons in the (lazing) material. (Basic laser theory) Lights outside the laser shine onto the laser. The electrons of the material in the laser absorb photons from the pumping lights around the laser and jump from one defined-energy-level up to an available higher energy-level. While the electrons are temporarily stabile there, they can be stimulated to drop back to the earlier energy-level by being exposed to light of the proper (same) energy. This releases the stored energy as a photon having the same energy (color) as was absorbed earlier. In a laser, the stimulation is pretty inefficient, so they have to put mirrors on the ends so the light bounces back and forth many times, trying to stimulate more releases before it's released out the end. The length of the laser is carefully set so that the light (think standing-waves now) doesn't cancel itself out while it's bouncing back and forth. I had thought that the energy-levels were pretty precise, so that the transitions too would be precise, leading to the narrow bands seen in lasers. How then could they be "tuned"? It turns out that they are NOT precise. If you look at the weak stimulation, it can be explained by motions of the electrons within their orbitals! If the electron happens to be moving in one direction or speed when the stimulating photon comes by, it might interact, while it couldn't if it were moving in the opposite direction. SO, you tune a laser by simply adjusting the length of the laser to allow a standing-wave of the wavelength you want, only THAT color gets a chance to wait around for the many electrons to get into the proper laser-stimulation-energy within the orbital, and out comes the color you want! So there you are: fluorescence colors are spread by variability in the energy levels at either end of the light emitting transition. Start adding multiple allowed-transitions and you get a big smear. Flint --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From morningstar at att.net Fri Dec 31 11:54:48 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Fri Dec 31 11:52:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: <002501c4ef6d$4cb7bc80$03a5490c@pete> References: <20041231185743.CDE69CBA5EB@delivery.infowest.com> <002501c4ef6d$4cb7bc80$03a5490c@pete> Message-ID: <41D5AE88.90408@att.net> Peter J. Modreski wrote: > A possible means of identifying minerals, but probably not "simple". Partly > for the reason Don noted, that most of the luminescence spectrum is > determined by the activator(s), not the base mineral. Don't forget, Pete, that's why mineralogists tend to look down upon fluorescence as a quality for ID. Some of us don't necessarily agree, but that's how it is. Now, of course, it has its uses in applied science, but for pure mineralogy, we won't find much interest in its properties except as a curiousity. It is more of a materials science thing--physics, optics, medicine, consumer products, etc. I have spoken to a number of my superiors in mineralogy and geology, and no one seems partcularly excited about studying fluorescence as a mineral property--not as an indicator of the presence of rare earth elements, not for ID, not for presence of hydrocarbons (e.g., crude oil), nor for any other reason. As I said, I think this is more the realm of materials scientists, people who are interested in creating new types of phosphors, taggants, indicators, etc. Ironically, biologists and chemists use fluorescence as a property more often than mineralogists do. By the way, if you want a cheap medium-wave (MW, ~310 nm) light, sign up for eBay or www.labx.com, and search for "electrophoresis" and "transilluminator"--you'll see a lot of non-related junk, but every once in a while you'll see a Fisher, Spectroline, or other brand of table-top illuminator and be able to get it cheap. These are noted by their relatively flat, rectangular appearance, and the dark blue filter built into the top. Again, using the ubiquitous calcite and fluorite as examples, these are minerals that do not fluoresce in their pure form, and are known world-wide from thousands of localities and in many different colors, both daylight and fluorescent. You would never be able to ID either one of these by its fluorescent emissions. On the other hand, there is value in noting the luminescence of these minerals from specific localities, mostly for the collecting community though. Don From hptdesigns at charter.net Fri Dec 31 12:25:29 2004 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Fri Dec 31 12:19:36 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: <41D5AE88.90408@att.net> Message-ID: <3k77vr$fqsdvb@mxip08a.cluster1.charter.net> > Ironically, biologists and chemists use fluorescence as a > property more often than mineralogists do. I know at the water and wastewater plant we use it for the testing of pathogenic bacteria. It used to be that one would have to test for coliform bacteria (22 hours) -- if they were found then one had to then incubate them and culture the extracted coliforms in another broth. Now the test is simply test for presence or absence of coliform and then view under a black light (forget the wavelength) and if it fluoreces a certain color then fecal coliform (the bad guys) are present. Cuts the testing process from 3 days to 22 hours. E coli emits a different color. Since at a water plant you would never hopefully have coliforms present (I never have had at mine)--you would not usually have need of the black light. If you did, you had screwed up. But when testing well water or river water or swimming pool water to make sure they are safe, the indicator dyes and black light make it much more quick to get test results and also much less interpretation. They are either there or not there. Tommy Armstrong N 35* 23' 52'' W 78* 49' 9'' From kadok at infowest.com Fri Dec 31 12:23:08 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Fri Dec 31 12:23:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Eastern United States Tsunami imminent In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041231202307.DEC30CBA635@delivery.infowest.com> Yes indeed! Margaret Well said Kitty... remember the panic that was caused by just the dramatic voice of Orson Welles reading the radio play "War of the Worlds"... Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kitty & Bill Heacox Verzonden: vrijdag 31 december 2004 8:19 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Eastern United States Tsunami imminent Dear "Rockhound"---(you didn't sign your name), May I make a gentle recommendation that phrases like "tsunami imminent" and "tsunami early warning notice" not be used in a time when a large part of the world is terrified of immediate disaster, possibly from after-shocks in the Indian Ocean. I appreciate getting your information, but please don't run the risk of making people panic, or triggering more nightmares for those of us who have friends or family affected by the present disaster. Phrases like "possible in the not too distant future," or "additional tsunami concern" might be less alarmist. Aloha, Kitty At 10:56 PM 12/29/2004, you wrote: >I am not aware of what is shown on US television, so don't know if this is >news to any of our American members out there, but the Eastern Seabord of >the US of A is due to be hit by a major Tsunami. In geological and even >historical timescales, one side of the Island of Tenerife is looking >particularly ropey, and when it stops hanging on, not only will the island >change, but there will likely be a trunami generated when it slides into >the sea. There is an existing fault running through the island, and the >magma chamber is still active. > >We here in the UK could also suffer somewhat, but just imagine is >something like the Asian Tsunami clouted some of our modern westren cities >unannounced and definitely uninvited. I would imagine many subway systems >inundated and the loss of life there alone would be huge. > >I digress, this is just a Tsunami early warning notice. > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.6 - Release Date: 12/28/2004 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004 _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From folmstead at rcn.com Fri Dec 31 18:19:14 2004 From: folmstead at rcn.com (Fred Olmstead) Date: Fri Dec 31 18:01:42 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] recede tide In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20041229194449.082a2a40@mail.aloha.net> References: <3k70mg$joqmtu@mxip15a.cluster1.charter.net> <41D391D2.7010601@rcn.com> <6.1.2.0.0.20041229194449.082a2a40@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <41D608A2.6090801@rcn.com> Just curious re tide did it recede in such a manner to be noticed - unusual - faster, slower?? How long was the "tide" out?? What was "in" for so many years was bound to 'return' __..--..__..--..__ Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > On April 1, 1946 a tsunami swept across Laupahoehoe point here on the > Big Island, and wiped away nearly every building, including the > original Laupahoehoe School. Over 120 people were killed, most of > whose bodies were never found. I taught for many years at the "new" > Laupahoehoe School, built at a safe location well above the present > coastal highway. > > On that same day, in the town of Hilo, people ran out into the bay > when the water receded and gleefully picked up fish that were flopping > around on the sand. I read that people in various locations in the > Indian Ocean did just the same thing on December 26, 2004. > > Aloha, Kitty > > > At 07:27 PM 12/29/2004, you wrote: > >> I think that it was in U.S.A. Today that I read that 'some people' were >> checking out the (unusual?) rock formationson the ocean floor when the >> water receded 600 feet.... thinking that cause of the tide going out was >> from the full moon..... Others did not realize the significance and >> were >> curious... so came down to see. >> >> I remember several years ago when I was living in Monterey, >> California - I >> do not recall the year - late 50's or early 60's - several people >> WENT TO >> THE BEACH to see a possible Tsunami that was predicted.... >> >> GeorgiaO >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.6 - Release Date: 12/28/2004 > > > From dguin at earthlink.net Fri Dec 31 21:25:25 2004 From: dguin at earthlink.net (Dave Guin) Date: Fri Dec 31 21:25:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] postscript about tsunami warnings In-Reply-To: <20041231191934.E23C1CBA62F@delivery.infowest.com> References: <20041231191934.E23C1CBA62F@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: <41D63445.1020407@earthlink.net> Margaret Malm wrote: >Maurice, you should "subscribe" to the National Earthquake Information >Center. (send an e-mail to majordomo@ghtmail.er.usgs.gov >In the body (NOT the subject line) of the message just put > subscribe bigquake > > > Try this address; bigquake-subscribe@eqinfo.wr.usgs.gov Peace, dave