From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 1 07:07:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Anita Westlake) Date: Thu Jan 1 07:07:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] How to display collections References: Message-ID: <3FF461E1.6B5F2A99@emory.edu> I haunt antique shows for display cases. I found an old, double door wooden post office cabinet with multiple pigeon holes that I dearly love. I even have antique dealers looking for pieces for me. They'll shout at me from across the room "Hey! I found something you can put your rocks in!" I also have several tall old oak filing cabinets (one with 7 deep drawers, the other with 12 long shallow drawers), two metal microfiche cabinets with shallow, roll-out drawers, a couple of beautiful wooden card catalogs (I work in a university library!), a 50's style lighted cabinet with spindle legs, a bed headboard with cubby holes, a large hinged glass display case on long legs and a Plexiglas 6 shelved curio cabinet (both items I bought at a mineral society auction), a corner cabinet glass & wood lighted display case from Big Lots Furniture for $100.00, an apothecary chest from Macy's with a crackle paint finish and 12 drawers, lots of bookshelves (I've long since given up on trying to keep books around), and various small wall-mounted shelves and small table-top display cases. I have as much fun looking for display pieces as I do buying specimens! Since "Nature abhors a vacuum" I usually fill up every piece I find. Anita Faceter01 wrote: > > About display cases, > > If I remember correctly, I believe it was Tim Jokela, who some years ago told me not to use Oak to build a display case, it is corrosive to minerals over time. Correct me if I'm wrong Tim. > > Also, as I remember reading somewhere, don't display Pyrite with other minerals behind a glass covered display case without it being enclosed in it's own display box. Over time, as the pyrite breaks down, the sulphuric acid will coat the other minerals. But again, correct me if I'm wrong. > > Finally, go to John Betts site for some great info on displaying minerals and other fine articles. > > http://www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com/jhbnyc/articles.htm > > -Ron > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 1 09:00:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Jan 1 09:00:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] How to display collections In-Reply-To: <3FF461E1.6B5F2A99@emory.edu> Message-ID: <00a301c3d088$96d9ed60$6701a8c0@moose> I'm just loving that old library card-catalog case I picked up from the University of Minnesota a couple of weeks ago. Those drawers can handle the weight of the specimens, and they are wide enough for most pieces (hey... I wish I could afford pieces that were too big !). Check out surplus sales at local schools & libraries for those cases. With everyone switching to electronic card catalogs there are probably a lot of cases floating around (though this one is too heavy to truly float ). True, you can't see the specimens, but it does keep 'em organized and dust free. You even have a slot on the front of the drawer to say "what's what...". Gary Brown http://www.catspaw-minerals.com Home of "MasMils/PLUS" mine location CD. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 1 10:25:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Jokela) Date: Thu Jan 1 10:25:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] How to display collections References: Message-ID: <005301c3d095$a4250560$7605efd1@oemcomputer> Yep, solid oak probably isn't a good choice for mineral storage. The wood can react with sulfides, producing sulfuric acid over time. One of the classiest display units I've seen is a long, thin, quite shallow glass-front unit that a friend got from IKEA for like $100. Exceedingly cool, totally perfect for mineral display, though a bit underlit in the lower half. White melamine if I recall correctly, much classier than I would expect from the source. (I do serious woodworking when I'm not breaking rock or chasing trout, and tend to look down on wannabe furniture made of plastic and sawdust, so I was quite surprised at the quality of this unit, not at all what I'd expect from IKEA.) The main things you're looking for in mineral display are dust protection and lighting, unless you live in Cali or Iran, in which case you want a unit that bolts to the wall, with drawers that can't slide out on their own. There's an article on it in Min Rec somewhere on what a quake will do to a mineral collection, ouch... Glass shelves and a mirror on the bottom and back, transmitting and reflecting the lighting from the top, make for a super-classy display, but bear in mind that the more glass there is, the more glass cleaning you'll have to do, and glass adds cost, fragility, and weight. Removing and replacing fragile minerals every two months to dust them is a major pain, but if you're using hot lights you should have some ventilation. Lots of pros and cons, probably more information than you really need, but I design my own stuff and tend to look at everything very closely. I'd second the suggestion that you check out flea markets and antique places, but not the uppity kind where everything is actually antique and four figures. Keep an eye on the papers for auction announcements, you can get some perfectly good furniture for ridiculous prices if you're lucky and patient, lots of stores that go out of business auction off their very usable fixtures for good prices. Lastly, it seems that a lot of the rockhounds I know are also woodworkers. I don't know which hobby came first, but it is a perfect combination; you get obsessed with minerals, look at the price of storage units, and find you can build your own better and cheaper. Buy some tools and DIY, fill entire walls up with shelving and drawer units. The money you save on furniture you can spend on more minerals. A grand obsession! Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr, tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The mineralogy of Ontario, Canada: http://www.ontariominerals.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Faceter01" To: Sent: December 31, 2003 5:17 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] How to display collections About display cases, If I remember correctly, I believe it was Tim Jokela, who some years ago told me not to use Oak to build a display case, it is corrosive to minerals over time. Correct me if I'm wrong Tim. Also, as I remember reading somewhere, don't display Pyrite with other minerals behind a glass covered display case without it being enclosed in it's own display box. Over time, as the pyrite breaks down, the sulphuric acid will coat the other minerals. But again, correct me if I'm wrong. Finally, go to John Betts site for some great info on displaying minerals and other fine articles. http://www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com/jhbnyc/articles.htm -Ron --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 1 10:26:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Thu Jan 1 10:26:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] a New Year's rock pastime... Message-ID: <002901c3d094$c0c55180$8ba4490c@pete> Hi there, rockhounds, I thought I'd write a little note to share a slightly off-beat = rock-related holiday activity. One of my Christmas presents--and this = was one of those things that Jane and I saw together in a gift shop last = summer, so I knew she'd bought it for me, but I pretend not to = remember... was a rock jigsaw puzzle---a bit of a special one (to us). = I'll explain. Jane is from Michigan, and the Lake Superior region is = just about her favorite place in the world (no just abouts about it, = really, it is). There is a really neat little booklet, written and = illustrated by Susan Robinson, titled "Is this an agate? -- an = illustrated guide to Lake Superior's Beach Stones, Michigan". Susan, an = artist, has written a number of articles for Rocks & Minerals magazine = over the years about the work of other mineral artists; her husband, = George, a mineralogist and author himself, is currently at the Michigan = Tech/Seaman Museum in Houghton, Mich. This little (23-page) booklet is = really well done, and it's probably one of my favorite "rock" books, = especially because of Susan's excellent color drawings of beach pebbles. = The point of the book is how to tell an agate from all the other kinds = of rock pebbles one would find on a beach along Lake Superior; but it = serves as an excellent guide to what are the different types of rocks = found in that region. Many of you probably know how hard it is to pick = up a miscellaneous assortment of gravel pebbles, and be able to tell = someone, clearly and accurately, what each pebble in the pile is; well, = this is what Susan has done in this book, which I think is a great guide = for any "rock-looker" anywhere, though of course the rock types are = keyed to those that are most abundant in the Superior region. Her = written descriptions of each rock are very good, but the special charm = of her book is in the drawings; she really has a special knack for = depicting the rocks "with soul" and illustrating the characteristics = that really make each type of rock look distinctive, much better than a = photograph could probably do. So, that's my praise of her book. The puzzle (which we bought at a = dockside gift shop outside Superior, Wisconsin) is an enlarged version = of the cover picture from the book, showing an assortment of several = dozen beach pebbles of different, distinctive types--such things as = amygdaloidal basalt, granite, sandstone, porphyry, diabase, rhyolite, = conglomerate, etc.; of course, with a few small but colorful agates = interspersed. I've been playing at putting the puzzle together over the = holidays (it's much more fun than sitting down and working at writing = out any of our very late Christmas cards which are now going to be New = Years cards at best)! If you own a copy of the book (not supplied with = the puzzle, of course), you have access to a "key" diagram that labels = what each rock in the picture is--in case you can't figure them out for = sure for yourself! That's it--I just wanted to share my story about this neat little = book and the puzzle (I guess it doesn't take too much, to keep a true = "rockhound" happy over the wintertime!). For those interested, the = booklet (copyright 2001, Book Concern Printers, Hancock, MI, ISBN = 0-9707342-0-4) is available at better rock shops and gift shops around = Lake Superior, and hopefully elsewhere too. I think the book costs = somewhere between $5-$10; the puzzle is more. (I just checked online; = Amazon says it's out of print, but Barnes&Noble says they have it, for = $7.95; neither seems to have a picture of the cover, which would show = you what her illustrations look like.) Susan tells me that she has a = second "rock" puzzle out now, too. Best regards and happy New Year to all, Pete Modreski, Denver CO --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 1 10:56:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Williams) Date: Thu Jan 1 10:56:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: How to display collections References: <008f01c3cfc3$bc81c760$6b4e5d3f@t5k8i6> Message-ID: <003301c3d098$e42d3440$99d04fd1@Williams> Most of what I have are minerals waiting to be mounted and large pieces waiting to be made smaller or identified. One thing that I also do, is become a specimen collector as well as a micromounter. For the specimens that are thumbnail or smaller, I use clear plastice containers with 16-18 slots that I can put the identified minerals in and stick a number on the side or top that corresponds with an index card telling all of the important information about the specimen(s) and it goes in the container as well. These containers can be stacked on top of each other, so they are space efficient. Micromounts and smaller individual identified specimens are cross cataloged in my database as well as a notebook for easy retrieval when I want to admire them or study them. I also use egg cartons to store extras by locality-cartons tell where and when they were collected and having been collecting for 40+ years, I also have a ton of "beer flats" full of specimens, by locality---or to separate the larger specimens in when I am waiting to either put in a dislay cabinet or take to a school or Scout troop for educational purposes. The problem with Specimen collection is the elements in the composition,ei, Sulphur, Uranium, Vanadium, Thorium,etc--you have to be carefull where you put them and what they are put with. Anyway, without going into more detail, thats it! Bye now, I am going out to my shed and look at some more minerals to start the new year We currently have heavy rain and 40-50 mile an hour winds. HAPPY NEW YEARS EVERYBODY!!!! Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard@Mineral of the Month Club" To: ; ; Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 9:30 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: How to display collections > Hello All, > > Anyone have some suggestions I can forward to this person? Thanks! > > > > > Dear Richard, > > > > My 11 year old son has been collecting since he was small and I need a way > > to display the specimens. Can you refer me to a supplier, or can I learn > > without any woodworking skills? How about lighting to enhance the color > and > > brilliance of the minerals? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Camille > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Have fun customizing MSN Messenger - learn how here! > > http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_customize > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 1 11:15:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (tina tuttle) Date: Thu Jan 1 11:15:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] display idea etc In-Reply-To: <20040101020001.21965.91303.Mailman@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <4BA0A362F722AB4CAF3B84FAA297739FA71665@iu-mssg-mbx01.exchange.iu.edu> Display Idea: Acrylic boxes in a variety of sizes from US Acrylic are very handy for minerals that need protection. One can put several smaller specimens and labels into the box on a bookcase or on a desk and not have to worry about degradation from the air, or having to dust them. US Acrylic has a nice catalogue, although they don't vend direct to the public unless you are a business. You have to buy in lots of 6 to 12 units. The prices are very reasonable($1-3 each) and many don't have unseemly seams when you lay them on the side (lid to the side). I use these for 6-9" specimens that I want to put on bookcases but must protect from the elements. They are also great when I need to travel for with them for presentations and want to protect them from touching. So glad to read this bit about mineral reactions in displaying minerals together--I just finished restoring my 72x26x26" display case I found in a flea market and started to arrange the displays, including my pyrites. Glad to know about the potential corrosion issues w/ the latter. Will read John Betts website for more tips. I have a large evaporite collection (borates, etc)--other than the humidity issues, are there interactions with other minerals I should be worried about? Tina Tuttle tinaindesert@hotmail.com From: "Faceter01" To: Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 17:17:38 -0500 Subject: [Rockhounds] How to display collections Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com About display cases, If I remember correctly, I believe it was Tim Jokela, who some years ago = told me not to use Oak to build a display case, it is corrosive to = minerals over time. Correct me if I'm wrong Tim. Also, as I remember reading somewhere, don't display Pyrite with other = minerals behind a glass covered display case without it being enclosed = in it's own display box. Over time, as the pyrite breaks down, the = sulphuric acid will coat the other minerals. But again, correct me if = I'm wrong. Finally, go to John Betts site for some great info on displaying = minerals and other fine articles. http://www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com/jhbnyc/articles.htm -Ron From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 1 12:36:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (John Siebel) Date: Thu Jan 1 12:36:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] a New Year's rock pastime... References: <002901c3d094$c0c55180$8ba4490c@pete> Message-ID: <003401c3d095$a9761ae0$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" >There is a really neat little booklet, written and illustrated by Susan Robinson, titled "Is this an agate? -- an illustrated guide to Lake Superior's Beach Stones, Michigan". Julie and I picked up this booklet when we visited the Keewenah peninsula in Michigan some years ago. Julie had spent her childhood beachcombing for agate in Washington and Oregon but had no clue until she read this. John From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 1 12:42:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Jan 1 12:42:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] display ideas etc In-Reply-To: <4BA0A362F722AB4CAF3B84FAA297739FA71665@iu-mssg-mbx01.excha nge.iu.edu> References: <20040101020001.21965.91303.Mailman@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040101100532.039031e0@mail.aloha.net> At 09:13 AM 1/1/2004, you wrote: > --other than the humidity issues, are there >interactions with other minerals I should be worried about? >Tina Tuttle Yes, I wonder too. I am definitely a rockhound, not a geologist, and the last time I studied physics or chemistry was in 7th grade General Science (too many years ago!). I've read a lot of books and looked up information on the Internet, but I haven't found a place that provides specific warnings about storage. Ignorance can indeed be damaging. Recently I purchased a large amount of material from a rockhound who had to dispose of his collection. The pieces were mostly labeled, but in not very clear handwriting. One piece looked to me a bit like gypsum, but the label said (I think) "Calcite." After one day in our humid weather the piece was completely covered in white powder and sitting in a pool of liquid. I've managed to remove most of the powder and restore some of its appearance with a light coating of mineral oil, and I've moved it into the one air-conditioned room in our house. When Henry Barwood was here he said that it is indeed gypsum. I said I'd never had a problem with gypsum and humidity, and he said that when gypsum is in crystal form there is not a problem, but this piece is fibrous and that allows moisture to enter the small spaces between the fibers...and he went on with further scientific detail. I've learned a lot of things the hard way (like having a hanksite specimen destroy the finish on our coffee table in just 3 hours), but I've also found that even if the name contains the word "hydro" , or H2O appears in it's chemical formula, that doesn't necessarily mean it has to be kept in a dry environment; a lot depends on the specific makeup. So I wish someone would write an article---perhaps a book---called something like "Safe Environments for Your Minerals." John Betts has two excellent articles with suggestions for beginners and maintaining a collection, but nothing on what kind of materials should be protected from humidity or from other materials including each other. We love to look at our collection as we pass through our home, and display as much of it as possible to visitors, so we want to have as few as possible stored away in dark drawers or boxes. And for that we need to know how to make informed selections and placements. Aloha and Happy New Year, Kitty --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.553 / Virus Database: 345 - Release Date: 12/18/2003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 1 12:44:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Don H) Date: Thu Jan 1 12:44:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] How to display collections References: <005301c3d095$a4250560$7605efd1@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3FF48779.E95F5539@att.net> Tim Jokela wrote: > > Yep, solid oak probably isn't a good choice for mineral storage. The wood > can react with sulfides, producing sulfuric acid over time. If I may--I believe it is also the tannic acid in oak, especially fresh oak, that outgasses. Some will say that this is nonsense, and others will say that old oak, or well-sealed oak, is OK to use. I have never done any empirical research of my own, but given the controversy, I'd rather stick with other woods. Of course, I can't imagine there aren't nasty volatiles in other woods either, but in the few articles I've seen, people tend to pick on oak. Definitely a subject for further research. Don From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 1 12:59:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Duane) Date: Thu Jan 1 12:59:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: How to display collections In-Reply-To: <003301c3d098$e42d3440$99d04fd1@Williams> References: <008f01c3cfc3$bc81c760$6b4e5d3f@t5k8i6> Message-ID: <4.3.1.0.20040101155228.00bf3438@pop.megalink.net> Just a thought on wooden specimen cabinets (solid hardwood or plastic and sawdust). If you are going to store the specimens in pasteboard trays with labels or the typical white cotton filled box, take some very fine mesh (1/4 inch or less) screen and attach firmly to the underside on the cabinet. This, if properly secured, will keep the critters out of the cabinet where they love to store food, make nests, eat labels and generally make a mess. Cabinets stored in basements, sheds or attics are especially prone to the critter problem. Hope this helps... From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 1 13:36:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Thu Jan 1 13:36:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] How to display collections Message-ID: <85.2681952.2d25ec4a@aol.com> I like oak because the outgassing tannic acid kills the bacteria that degrades marcasite/pyrite ;-) John Betts www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 1 16:23:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Thu Jan 1 16:23:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] display ideas etc Message-ID: <20040102002220.QDNY11223.fed1mtao06.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Kitty, A book on the care and display of your minerals must have been written sometime and somewhere. It is too good an idea to have been overlooked. Were someone to undertake it, there must be an indication of optimum circumstances plus advice for climatic extremes. Hanksite is a great example. People in the Searles Lake area certainly would know. The annual diggers and collectors may not at all. The wood, as told by Tim Fisher is certainly not widely known, light, sun, air, certainly need to be clearly mentioned. I too love to have specimins in places where they can be seen, fading is so subtle at times, it is not noticed until it is too late. Excellent topic for discussion. Teresa From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 1 18:26:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Thu Jan 1 18:26:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hi and the first paper of the New Year Message-ID: <3FF4D69D.1050906@tenforward.com> Hi Everyone, I hope you all had terrific Holidays! Below you'll find the newest paper of 2004, I hope you enjoy! All the very best everyone! Sincerely, John P.S. Look for me in Tucson at the Inn Suites this year, room #169. I'll be sharing the room with Scott Kleine of Great Basin Minerals (please consider checking out Scott's website at greatbasinminerals.com We did the 2003 Denver Show together and you can see our room and read the Show Report posted on Scott's website by clicking on... http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Mineral%20Show%20Pix/Denver%202003%20Show%20Pix%20Page.htm I hope your all able to stop by and say hello! Take care! JC Jump In, The Waters Fine; Eurypterid Collecting In New York By John Cornish j&gcornish@tenforward.com My flight was leaving in the morning, I'd be traveling from Port Angeles, Washington to the small village of Ilion, in southern Herkimer County, New York and from there, I'd be traveling back in time to an ancient, exotic world existing over 400 million years ago. If I thought the changes of traveling from the western coast of North America to its eastern coast were challenging, they pale when compared to this! The New York of today, October 2003, was blanketed in a colorful collage of changing Fall colors, bright ruby reds and flaring oranges mixed in with vibrant greens and faded browns. In this part of the State, New York is an enchantingly simple, rural world of older communities and farmlands and the bustling cityscape I'd erroneously pictured never did materialize. Surrounding were low rolling hills and plenty of fresh country air. It's a nice place, but don't let the peaceful serenity of the present mislead you into believing that things have always been this way, oh no! If we step back in time to the Paleozoic upper Silurian, to the period when these sediments churned with the motions of a thriving prehistoric community, things would be very different indeed. Thankfully, such was not the case today, today the rigors of nearly 2000 miles travel would be journey enough. Before putting up my feet though, I still had to pick-up my baggage and meet my host for this incredible adventure, Allan Langheinrich. Allan was hopefully, patiently awaiting my delayed flight's arrival and it was with a sense of relief, to both of us I'd imagine, that we finally spotted each other. As we greeted over the roar of oncoming traffic and screaming aircraft engines, I unceremoniously loaded my bags into his van. The quiet descended with the closing doors and everything just seemed to get better. After a short ride through the darkened countryside, I'd be at Allan's place and this seemingly endless first part of my journey would finally lie behind me. We chatted about this and that as Allan drove until with a gradual slowing, he turned off the pavement and onto the compacted gravel drive entering into his farm. He'd driven past the house and had turned in towards a house trailer set back off the road a bit. He parked beside the trailer's lit porch and said we'd arrived. We off loaded my bags and then headed inside where Allan showed me around. Afterwards, Allan left me to unpack and when ready, I'd head over to the shop where I'd meet Zarko and Leon. With that said, maybe now is a good time to catch everyone up on the players in this awesome drama. Foremost is Allan Langheinrich, proprietor of Langs Fossils and our host. Allan has a website at... http://www.langsfossils.com/home.htm I wholeheartedly recommend your visiting Allan's site, it offers a wealth of text and photographed information presenting a valuable and rare glimpse into this, one of the World's foremost eurypterid deposits. For over twenty years now, Allan has excavated on his farm in Langs Quarry for these exemplary arthropods, preparing the specimens in-house in a fully equipped lab. Education is a major focus of Allan's operation and future plans are to design and construct a public museum highlighting the farm's exceptional paleontology and geology. As mentioned earlier, in addition to Allan and I, there were two others also sharing this adventure whom I'd like to introduce, they are Zarko Ljuboja and Leon Theisen. Zarko and Leon are both world class fossil preparators hailing from Ohio and South Dakota respectfully. Zarko has a business named Benthos Projects, while Leon's business is Custom Paleo. Both can be contacted through Langs Fossils should you desire preparation assistance for your own specimens. True artisans of their craft, both Zarko and Leon have been professionally preparing fossils for over twenty years. While here, Zarko, or Z, and Leon would be spending the majority of their time chained to the work bench, preparing the many specimens which had accumulated over the collecting season. In comparison, I would be much more mobile, learning everything as I went. I was excited and was really looking forward to the morning's adventures and the days upcoming, eager to explore this intoxicating new world. But not tonight, all too soon the rigors of the day's travels began catching up and taking their toll. My yawns were coming more frequently and I could feel myself slipping away. Before things became too embarrassing, I finally succumbed and said my good-byes and headed off to bed. Tomorrow would be a big day and my first full day in the exotic far eastern land of New York. The morning came early and with a clearer head I was ready for the day. Z was still snoozing while Leon had the coffee brewing, the three of us were all staying in the big trailer home. The smell of the coffee was a pleasant one and even though I can't drink the stuff, it turns me into a human pinball, bing-bing-bing, its heady aroma sure welcomes one to the day. I made my way over to the shop after dressing and was soon marveling anew at all the fossil treasures spread about awaiting the final preparatory attentions of the guys. It was an awesome sight. Eurypterids are unique and exotic fossils in every sense. Localities producing complete specimens are very rare and the deposits of New York are among the finest known. Eurypterids are arthropods whose closest living relatives are the so-called living fossils, horseshoe crabs. Arthropods are a wildly successful group whose members by species, by individuals and by prospects of evolutionary continuation outnumber all other animals. Approximately 80% of all known life forms are arthropods. The majority of these are insects whose first appearance occurred during the early Cambrian of 550 - 600 million years ago. The eurypterids first appeared, as currently documented in the fossil record, in the early Ordovician and peak in number and diversity in the late Silurian. Following this high point, eurypterids begin to decline through the Carboniferous and meet their end during the great Permian extinction along with over 90% of all extant species. Three genus of eurypterid are recovered with some frequency from the quarry, these include Eurypterus, Dolichopterus, and Pterygotus. Of these, Eurypterus remipes has the distinction of being honored as New York State's official Fossil. This happened in 1984. This species of Eurypterus is also the most abundant eurypterid found in the quarry and is recovered in sizes ranging from 8 mm (just over 5/16's of an inch) to 28 cm (just over 11 inches). Dolichopterus have been found in sizes ranging up to 33 cm (just under 13 inches), while Pterygotus have been found in ranges varying from 7.5 cm (just under 3 inches) to 2.13 meters (7 feet) in length. These monster Pterygotus are representative of the largest arthropods ever to have existed and to have been recovered from the United States. They are considered to be the ultimate predators of their times. During quarrying operations this year (2003), in addition to those genus mentioned above, a specimen of a potentially new species of genus Clarkiopterus was additionally recovered. Specimens of this genus are quite rare and positive identification is still pending, it's everyone's hope that this specimen will represent a new as yet unwritten chapter in New York State paleontology. Like all arthropods, eurypterids are made up of many segments and joints. The three body segments are the prosoma (carapace, etc.), mesosoma (the preabdomen containing 6 tergites and 5 sternites ), and the metasoma (the postabdomen with 6 caudal segments and a telson). They had both walking and paddled swimming legs and some, the Pterygotus, had a large pair of pinchers with serrated knife-like forward directed teeth, or coxae, which were utilized to capture and hold prey. The pointed telson, or tail of the eurypterid, is considered to have been poisonous in the Eurypterus and the Dolichopterus. This theory draws its conclusions from studies substantiating the relationship between eurypterids and proscorpions, early evolutionary ancestors of present day scorpions, though no proof has yet to be discovered which substantiates this claim. In Pterygotus, the telson developed into a massive swimming flipper. The overall structure of the Eurypterid body is one which suggests formidable strength and agility. Eurypterids were both aquatic and terrestrial and are considered to be the first animals ever to have ventured onto land. Ironically when first described in 1818, eurypterids were incorrectly described as being fish. This error was corrected in 1825. These first specimens were collected in Westmoreland, Onedia County, New York. Much later, in the 1950's, a road cut was developed on Spohn Hill, at Passage Gulf, quite near what is presently the Langheinrich farm. This road construction revealed the underlying treasure laden Bertie Groups, Phelps Waterlime Member, Fiddlers Green Formation. Spanning the international border separating Canada and the United States, exposures of this rock can be found in New York and continue north through and beyond the Niagara Peninsula of Ontario. The occurrence in Langs Quarry was developed after the purchase of the farm in 1984, when quarrying began soon thereafter. Since that time, the exposure of the Fiddlers Green Formation in Langs Quarry has become the largest ever known. The Fiddlers Green Formation is approximately 1 meter (just over 3 feet) thick and is a hard, fine grained dolostone which has been used historically by area residents in fence lines and as building foundations. These dolomitic muds were produced in lagoonal and laucustrine environments in an inland deltaic basin. Shallow, brackish lagoons and river-fed swamps near intertidal areas proved to be ideal habitats for eurypterids and have produced such considerable concentrations of these animals that these fossil rich areas have been termed, eurypterid pools. No other Fiddlers Green exposure has yielded such an exotic assemblage of rare and unique fossils as those which occur in Langs Quarry. In addition to the eurypterids, proscorpions (2 different species thus far identified), cephalopods, graptolites, and a varied group of fossilized plant remains (including a species of our planet's first land plant, an unidentified member of genus Cooksonia) have also been recovered during quarrying operations and a special emphasis is placed on the study and collection of these incredibly rare and oft times unique fossil treasures. And now, many of those same rare treasures lay spread all about me awaiting the attentions of Z and Leon. As I marveled, the guys slowly filtered in, another day about to begin. I'd be busy today, everything was new and exciting and I was thrilled through and through. Outside, all the elemental fury of a fired up New York Fall storm continued thrashing away with angry sheets of rain and gusting, ragged winds, but inside everything was calm and methodical and meticulous. At least in the areas worked in by Z and Leon! My day began with Alan showing me the Comco air abrasive unit while explaining its function and operation. Quite simply, this unit can be compared to a minature-sized sand blaster. Compressed air is fed through the Comco to a hand held pen-sized spraying unit. The material expelled, via adjustable pressure and volume controls, is an extremely fine 50 micron dolomite aluminum oxide powder. This powder is shot upon the rock to create a uniform surface texture which surrounds the fossil. It is not used on the fossil itself, rather only upon its matrix. This serves to obscure any scaring which may have resulted from the actual fossil's preparation and creates a pleasing uniform contrast which highlights the perfect preservation seen in these wonderful creatures. For these specimens, this step is the last prior to the dust being blown off and their being disseminated to enthusiasts the world over. I very much enjoyed learning the Comco's operation and was thrilled when Allan suggested I begin preparing specimens myself. Right from the get-go I learned the importance of angle and pressure, if using too direct an approach with too much air pressure, one quickly makes little pit-like circular borings, created in a heartbeat. A slow steady approach is so very important when preparing specimens, whatever their type, rather then a rushing, pell-mell thrifty assault. Should any of you ever have the opportunity to use one of these or similar units, my advice is the same as that given by Allan; be careful, take your time and don't be in a hurry. All of these simple truths echoed in my mind while I struggled for perfection during those first moments. Thank goodness Allan had given me body parts and specimens of an inferior quality to begin working on, preparation is not as easy as it looks and its nuances are subtle indeed. I worked for quite a spell to finish the two dozen pieces Allan had laid out before finally calling it quits, having for the time being caught up to the boys. After some refueling, breakfast, I was ready for more adventures and boy, oh boy, did Allan have one for me. We walked into the machine shop, to one of its far corners where a big Square-D circuit breaker panel commanded a wall above a monstrous electrical motor. With a pull, Allan grabbed the breaker arm and yanked it down energizing the 3-phase circuit kicking the motor to life. Power from this circuit traveled to another part of the lab, to an area dominated by huge hobbyists lapidary and professional masonry saws. Making his way to the biggest, a massive steel framed masonry unit sporting an overhead 20 inch diamond blade, Allan turned on the water feed and flipped the switch producing a high pitched whining scream which gained in volume as the spinning blade spun ever faster and faster. Water splashed against the blade to keep it cooled while it cut producing a fine spray which showered against the operator as they worked. Once I'd seen how he'd fired everything up, Allan showed me how to shut everything down reversing the process. With this accomplished, the next step was to show me the actual cutting process. Allan had over a dozen pre-marked specimens set around the saw for us to draw from. The eurypterids on these rocks had been framed by penciled lines centering the fossils on their matrix. My job was to follow these lines to produce a perfectly centered specimen. Not so hard in theory, but with the ragged rock's circumference being anything but straight, it was a fair bit challenging. But like the Comco, the operation of the big saw was much the same, be careful, take your time and don't be in a hurry. I watched, I listened, I learned and then I put it to the test with my ear protection in place muffling the shrill scream of the cutting blade, I was off and running. I busied myself cutting for the next several hours becoming more adept placing the wooden wedges which helped to position the specimen during its first initial cuts. Each specimen required a minimum of four squaring cuts, but more often then not, other cuts were needed which eventually yielded the ideally centered specimen. A quick rinse after the specimen is freed of the vise is all that's needed before the specimen is off to the stove, where in a special area, the pieces are sat to slowly dry. This area's specimens are those that Z and Leon will draw from to prepare. And so, I'd gone from working the end of the preparation process, air abrading, to working its beginning, sawing. Outside of this were still the actual experiences of collecting the specimens and the serious preparation work performed by Z and Leon. But right now, I was soaked, I'd caught up sawing and a hot shower sure sounded great. After this, the day steadily wound down and it was a sound sleep I slept that night. On Thursday, I woke to find the storm past and the countryside lit by beautiful, sunny skies. Scattered clouds trailed quickly past in the winds which had yet to abate. It was such a sight that I quickly dressed and set out for a morning walk. The quarry was my destination and an entire world lay between here and there. The grass was wet and twinkling with dew and the muddy road was puddled. Tracks and scat lay everywhere offering silent testimonials to the abundance of area wildlife. Coyote, opossum, deer, turkey and heron were among those I recognized. Innumerable birds called from the long grass and shrubs while high overhead geese streamed by in noisy arrowheaded flight. As I walked, the flat ascended and with persistence I gained the summit of the small hill and dropped down into the quarry. Huge slabs of rock lay jumbled in great piles stretching across the flat. On the right, a wooded hillside rose, cut by the Excavator and Bulldozer so as to expose the fossil bearing Fiddlers Green Formation. This cut wraps around in a rough half mooned shape with slabs abreast of it the entire way. It was and wasn't what I'd expected after having seen Allan's website, but one thing was for sure, it was absolutely awesome and I was here! I wandered about and snapped off lots of photos for about an hour or so before finally turning back for the farm. The views were enchanting and the air was fresh and I thought to myself, this is what it's like to be at a world class fossil locality, and I don't know, I just felt really, really thankful that I was having this opportunity and was enjoying this moment. And with that realization, the air just seemed to smell a little bit sweeter. There was a click to my heel and a whistle on my lips as I strolled down to work that day. Thursday in the shop pretty much mirrored Wednesday's routine to a tee, more air abrading (in addition to the Comco, I was also able to use a much larger, more infinitely adjustable unit manufactured by S. S. White) and cutting. On Friday, my morning equally mimicked the prior day's morning and began with a walk up to the quarry. It was a beautiful day and once again the skies were filled with the cries of the flying geese, flock after endless seeming flock of them. I'd gotten up early again and I was finding that I very much enjoyed this morning quiet time. Upon reaching the quarry, I began searching the slabs, seeking out hidden treasures and it was while doing so that I first noticed a new thing hidden among the rocks. There I found large chunks, some weighing in the tens of pounds, of a multi-color banded onyx-like material displaying an overall butterscotchish, brownish-golden tone. It was odd and neat, just not overly attractive in its current chunky, battered form. When I mentioned these to Allan, he related that voids were occasionally encountered within the Fiddlers Green whose surfaces were coated by this material. Rare stalactite and stalagmite deposits have also been found, additionally, it's interesting to note that some fluorescence has been reported in this material. That was the first trip I made up to the quarry on Friday, when I made my second trip, it was made a whole lot quicker and was a whole lot bumpier too! The trimmings from my cutting with the big masonry saw were piling up into a growing mini-mountain against the wall next to the saw. The buckets had long since overfilled and things were really starting to get out of hand. To solve the problem, we hooked a small trailer to one of the quads, a type of 4 wheeled motorcycle, and pulled it nearest to the saw and its pile. Next we hauled out rock until finally we'd emptied the entire area and its buckets of waste. With the trailer piled high and both the transmission and the throttle engaged, we set off for the quarry. The weight of the load really caused things to buck and bounce, but with spinning tires slinging chunks from the roadway, we lurched our way ever onward. Just beyond the summit, we pulled aside and dumped our load. Allan was already in the quarry, he'd come up earlier and was running the big rigs. With all the excitement and activity, I opted to stay and used the moment to get some great action photos of Allan operating the Excavator and Bulldozer. He was re-opening the road through the quarry and was using the equipment to move monster sized slabs clear. When he was finished, Allan jumped from the rig and called me over towards his quad. Reaching into his gear holder, Allan pulled free a 3-pound crack hammer and a small masonry hammer with a blunt hammer head on one side and a flat chisel-like face on the other. Once I had these in hand, Allan said I was ready for some collecting! With the utterance of these simple words, my heart jumped up into my throat, I was going to collect! Allan bade me follow and together we walked into the jumbled pile of slabs. Allan related that collecting here was done in a different fashion then perhaps I'd experienced at other localities. Explaining further, he related that the slabs lying about could not be forced apart. In fact, to do so would only ruin that particular slab's production potential. The only efficient way fossils can be recovered from the Fiddlers Green dolostone is to allow them to weather naturally. Dependent on the rock, this weathering process may take as long as a decade. A repeated cycle of freezing and thawing forms cracks which are influenced by the fossil and debris layers within the rock, these natural areas of weakness affect the contraction and the expansion of the rock. These cracks may develop around the circumference of the rock or upon its face in consistent, round dish-like shapes. When found, the flat chisel face of the chipping hammer is placed into or upon the crack and the 3-pound hammer is then brought down against its blunt end pounding the chisel face into the crack. With luck, fossils will be exposed as the crack separates. A large percentage of the eurypterids that are found in the quarry are recovered from the round dish-like plates which can be split out from some slab surfaces. These dishes are called conchoids and are a weathering phenomenon of this very fine grained dolostone. As we walked about, Allan would flip and spin the rocks lying about us in search of an illusive crack. It took him a bit, but soon he espied one in a slab partially buried in the pile. He pointed out the signs which had led him to that particular piece and then set the tools in place and smacked the hammer down. The rock split just fine to expose---nothing. But that was o.k., I'd gotten the idea and after finding that I had no other questions, Allan set me free to find treasure; and that's exactly what I did. Oh, it didn't happen right off, I had to work for it, spending several hours rooting about flipping and spinning my own rocks, but eventually, I found the piece I was looking for. It was a heavy slab partially buried beneath weeds and overgrowing sticker bushes. A bold crack split its edge and beckoned. I tore into the little pile of slabs and with a bit of a grunt, pulled the slab free. I set it on its edge and placed my tools as Allan had shown me earlier. Smack and the hammer rings steel on steel and the rock splits with a tiny groan all its own and separates freely into two opposing slabs both miraculously bearing the perfect imprint of a splayed out 18 cm (just over 7 inches) long Eurypterus remipes. As it appeared, I sat down and set the tools aside and just stared open mouthed. I'd just recovered a 410 million year old fossil eurypterid and this was what it was all about. With a building storm growing inside, I inevitably exploded a shout of pure joy and jumped up waving my arms to catch Allan's attention in the Excavator to let him know we'd just found treasure! Seeing me, Allan waved and smiled and continued his work. Me, I just bobbed about buoyant in my jubilation until with a renewed sense of purpose, I grabbed up the slabs and walked them over to the quads. Boy, was I ever pumped up. I felt like a kid in a candy store, and still hungry, I wanted more! Allan and I worked up there for several more hours and before we headed back down to the shop, I'd split out two more complete specimens. What a day, what a day! On Saturday, we had a day of visitors culminating with the arrival of two New York public school teachers. In an incredibly generous gesture, Allan has offered the New York State school system a eurypterid for each school that would like one. In this ultimate outreach program, Allan has thus far donated over 400 individual specimens. Personally, I felt honored to be associated with Allan when I learned the depth of his commitment to education. And then I learned that this was only the beginning. On Sunday, we had another day of visitors. This time a college Geology Club with about 20 kids came to visit. Allan gave them a tour of his facilities and then led them up to the quarry where he let them collect. After a couple hours, the group had had its fill and with treasures in hand, they said their thank you's and eventual good-byes. On Monday, another group came to visit, this time it was the Chenango Forks High School Geology Club. These kids and their teacher were a real fun group and they were quite enjoyable to have around. They even shocked us when at the end of their visit they presented each of us with an official Club T-shirt sporting a tough looking, hammer wielding eurypterid; a really neat shirt! Yup, like I said, Allan's commitment is very impressive. During these last three days of visits, I managed to keep busy. During the quieter moments, I spent lots of time air abrading and cutting with the big saw. I helped Allan move his wood pile indoors and even managed to collect one more eurypterid. While I busied myself, endlessly, Z and Leon slaved away at their work benches. Eyes ever focused through magnifiers or microscopes while performing the ultra-fine detail work which really brings these animals back to life. With a myriad of specialty tools strewn about them, bottled adhesives and lubricants, picks and probes, they appeared every bit the professionals that their final efforts so exquisitely portrayed. I watched, took notes and asked way too many dumb questions. Z, Leon and Allan, all of these guys were Saints putting up with me, but hey, I sure learned a lot. And in such a real world scenario too. It comes at you hard and fast sometimes, but I was never one to let the dust settle anyway. In such a unique and unconventional business as this, there's always something to do, something to fix, something that's got to be done, that can't wait until tomorrow. It's a world of pressures and personal motivation, a world of trials and even errors on occasion, but the rewards, ah the rewards can be sweet beyond the expression of words. At the end of the day, there's a satisfaction in a job well done that most just don't get to ever experience in the real world. This type of work isn't easy and its not for everyone, I just know I'm sure glad it appeals to Allan. In an almost universal way, we're all fascinated and held rapt in awe when viewing the unique and rare fossil treasures collected and prepared from Allan's farm. The visions that these ancient animals evoke as we see the monstrous Pterygotus with its nasty, wicked appearing pinchers; the sleek spike-tailed, poisonous telson of the Eurypterus and the Dolichopterus, they and all the other exotic fauna and flora of this rare and special place challenge us. Awake within us a grand scaled fantasy adventure complete with all the trappings of an ancient prehistoric world, one which existed right here in upstate New York, 410 million years ago. And then all too soon, that was it, Monday slipped into Tuesday and it was time to head back to Port Angeles. I'd packed most everything the night before, including a wonderful selection of specimens which Allan had presented as a gift, and then had finished packing after waking. With my good-byes said, Allan and I pulled out from the farm early in weather every bit as pleasant as when I'd arrived. The wind was howling, the rain was falling and this time we enjoyed the added accompaniment of flashing lightning and booming thunder. We made it to the airport without incident and soon I was awaiting my 12:40 flight for home. My flights took forever and I was additionally confronted with a canceled flight in Seattle to Port Angeles, so close and yet so far away. But eventually, my last flight touched down in the darkness of our little local airport. Gloria was there waving as I stepped free of the plane and walked across the tarmac towards her waiting arms. My bags soon followed and with Buddy, our labrador mix, happily eating up all the exuberant pets I lovingly bestowed, we were soon on our way home. This has truly been a wonderful adventure, one which I'll always remember. I had such a great time and have learned so very many things. I've met some great guys in Allan, Z and Leon, and I'm very much looking forward to seeing all of them in 2004's big upcoming Tucson celebration. It's the 50th year of the Tucson Gem and Mineral Show and it's going to be a terrific, crazy adventure filled time and I can't think of a better group of friends to enjoy it with. Thanks for coming along everyone. All the very best. Take care, John Reference Ljuboja, Z. The Fauna and Flora of the Silurian, Fiddlers Green Formation and association with Eurypterus Remipes of Herkimer County, New York. (http://www.langsfossils.com/pages/edu-2.htm) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 1 19:16:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Thu Jan 1 19:16:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral storage and display Message-ID: <20040102031520.10326.qmail@web41002.mail.yahoo.com> Hi: Regarding the storage of Pyrite with other minerals - I remember it as marcasite causing the problems - since (perhaps) it's a less stable form of FeS2? Or am I mis-remembering this too? I'm pretty sure I remember hearing a horror story about prime marcasite specimens stacked together with other great rocks, and the whole stack of flats dissovling into toxic sludge. Hope that doesn't work for pyrite too. I think really OLD oak shelves would probably be OK, tannic acid won't be released for ever and ever. How about cheap pine boxes, of the sort that Alan Plante passed a design around for last year? Not showy, but you can pack a lot of minerals into a small space. I built 50 with a friend, wse split 30/20 since I bought the wood, and still have a few empty... well, a couple, anyway. They're great for volume. On the antique front, I have a music cabinet (meant to hold sheet music) with 2 inch drawers, and the drawer front drops down out of the way when you open the drawer. It's great for TNs and miniatures, I've been working for years and am just a little past 1/2 way full. And I have an old stacking set of bookshelves with glass fronts, they call them laywer's bookcases I think, for cabinet sized pieces. All antique, and won't hold 500 lbs of rocks, but for selected specimens, they work really well. The music cabinet is probably really an antique, but the bookcase is just old and battered. I bet there are a million of them around in small towns. Hope this contributes to the discussion. JR in WV __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 http://search.yahoo.com/top2003 From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 1 20:05:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Jan 1 20:05:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hi and the first paper of the New Year References: <3FF4D69D.1050906@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <3FF4EDD4.247F@Tomaszewski.net> John, Thank you for sharing. It was a very good read and it let me learn from a side of the hobby I don't normally follow (i.e., collecting fossils). Kreigh John and Gloria Cornish wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > I hope you all had terrific Holidays! Below you'll find the newest paper > of 2004, I hope you enjoy! All the very best everyone! Sincerely, > > John > > P.S. Look for me in Tucson at the Inn Suites this year, room #169. > I'll be sharing the room with Scott Kleine of Great Basin Minerals > (please consider checking out Scott's website at greatbasinminerals.com > We did the 2003 Denver Show together and you can see our room and read > the Show Report posted on Scott's website by clicking on... > > http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Mineral%20Show%20Pix/Denver%202003%20Show%20Pix%20Page.htm > > I hope your all able to stop by and say hello! Take care! JC > > Jump In, The Waters Fine; Eurypterid Collecting In New York > > By John Cornish > j&gcornish@tenforward.com > > My flight was leaving in the morning, I'd be traveling from Port > Angeles, Washington to the small village of Ilion, in southern Herkimer > County, New York and from there, I'd be traveling back in time to an > ancient, exotic world existing over 400 million years ago. If I From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 1 20:31:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Jan 1 20:31:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] How to display collections References: <005301c3d095$a4250560$7605efd1@oemcomputer> <3FF48779.E95F5539@att.net> Message-ID: <3FF4F3FF.7C36@Tomaszewski.net> Don H wrote: > > Tim Jokela wrote: > > > > Yep, solid oak probably isn't a good choice for mineral storage. The wood > > can react with sulfides, producing sulfuric acid over time. > > If I may--I believe it is also the tannic acid in oak, especially fresh > oak, that outgasses. Some will say that this is nonsense, and others > will say that old oak, or well-sealed oak, is OK to use. I have never > done any empirical research of my own, but given the controversy, I'd > rather stick with other woods. Of course, I can't imagine there aren't > nasty volatiles in other woods either, but in the few articles I've > seen, people tend to pick on oak. Definitely a subject for further > research. > > Don http://www.aucklandartgallery.govt.nz/downloads/artcare/pdf has some hints on care of stone, and mentions that (all) woods give off acetic, formic, and tannic acids. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 1 21:20:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Jan 1 21:20:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] a New Year's rock pastime... References: <002901c3d094$c0c55180$8ba4490c@pete> Message-ID: <3FF4FF74.6E45@Tomaszewski.net> Peter J. Modreski wrote: > > Hi there, rockhounds, > > > > > Best regards and happy New Year to all, > Pete Modreski, Denver CO As a fellow Michigander, still resident, please give my regards to Jane. And thank you for making me aware of a most interesting book I had not seen previously. Kreigh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 2 06:20:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (William Cordua) Date: Fri Jan 2 06:20:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent mica In-Reply-To: <001001c3cfd2$15e64480$2f5204d0@jim> Message-ID: Happy New Year, Over New Years, I was trying out my Ultrabright s.w. U.V. on various parts of my collection. A euhedral mica crystal, labeled muscovite, and collected at a small rose quartz prospect in the Tobacco Root Mts. of Montana fluoresced a very nice cream color. I have heard of fluorescent polylithionite and a few reports of fluorescent lepidolite. Has any one heard of fluorescing muscovite? Me thinks I ought to check my sample for lithium! Best wishes - Bill C. Dr. William S. Cordua Professor of Geology/Mineralogy University of Wisconsin - River Falls 410 South Third Street River Falls, WI 54022 715-425-3139 william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu "Speak to the Earth and it shall teach thee" - Job 12:8 From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 2 06:40:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Van) Date: Fri Jan 2 06:40:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent mica References: Message-ID: <005401c3d13e$4385b700$c3ff4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> I guess the question is: "Is it muscovite?" Have you checked RI and 2V? Masutomilite is a white mica and polylithionite has recently been redefined so that it is going to be much more common. I've already told of the "garnet" I had a student work on and he kept trying to tell me it was a red tourmaline. Good luck! Van ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Cordua" To: Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 9:19 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent mica > Happy New Year, > Over New Years, I was trying out my Ultrabright s.w. U.V. on various > parts of my collection. A euhedral mica crystal, labeled muscovite, and > collected at a small rose quartz prospect in the Tobacco Root Mts. of > Montana fluoresced a very nice cream color. I have heard of fluorescent > polylithionite and a few reports of fluorescent lepidolite. Has any one > heard of fluorescing muscovite? Me thinks I ought to check my sample for > lithium! > > Best wishes - Bill C. > > Dr. William S. Cordua > Professor of Geology/Mineralogy > University of Wisconsin - River Falls > 410 South Third Street > River Falls, WI 54022 > 715-425-3139 > william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu > "Speak to the Earth and it shall teach thee" - Job 12:8 > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Jan 3 11:42:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sat Jan 3 11:42:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] display ideas etc References: <20040101020001.21965.91303.Mailman@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20040101100532.039031e0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <000501c3d22e$30628f40$345204d0@jim> There's a lot of information out there, but as far as I know it's never been compiled in one accessible place. A friend of mine, John Ade, compiled a list of Conditions and Substances Which are Harmful to Minerals in 1986. It was never published, but was used as a handout to the Micromount Study Group of ESCONI. I'm sure it could use some updating, and then maybe I could put it on my website to make it accessible to all. I'm sure John won't mind my using his work, since he passed away over 10 years ago. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales Microminerals and mounting supplies http://www.sauktown.com sauktown@adsnet.com or orders@sauktown.com > > --other than the humidity issues, are there > >interactions with other minerals I should be worried about? > >Tina Tuttle From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Jan 3 14:15:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Jan 3 14:15:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] display ideas etc In-Reply-To: <000501c3d22e$30628f40$345204d0@jim> References: <20040101020001.21965.91303.Mailman@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20040101100532.039031e0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040103123434.028b9be0@mail.aloha.net> That sounds great, Jim. Please let us know when you have it up on your website. Eager amateurs want to know! Aloha, Kitty At 09:17 AM 1/3/2004, you wrote: >There's a lot of information out there, but as far as I know it's never been >compiled in one accessible place. A friend of mine, John Ade, compiled a >list of Conditions and Substances Which are Harmful to Minerals in 1986. It >was never published, but was used as a handout to the Micromount Study Group >of ESCONI. I'm sure it could use some updating, and then maybe I could put >it on my website to make it accessible to all. I'm sure John won't mind my >using his work, since he passed away over 10 years ago. >Jim Daly >Sauktown Sales >Microminerals and mounting supplies >http://www.sauktown.com >sauktown@adsnet.com >or orders@sauktown.com > > > --other than the humidity issues, are there > > >interactions with other minerals I should be worried about? > > >Tina Tuttle > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Jan 3 14:21:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Jan 3 14:21:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Returned mail: User unknown In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040103123739.03097420@mail.aloha.net> Hi Aaron, Hope you are feeling better. Has everyone else been getting every time they post something to the List with <----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ...> ? Aloha, Kitty At 11:20 AM 12/28/2003, you wrote: >I've removed the offender until he can figure out his own damn software. > >Aaron, who's stuck in SoCAl with the flu and has little patience. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Jan 3 14:39:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sat Jan 3 14:39:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Returned mail: User unknown References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040103123739.03097420@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <008b01c3d24a$7c2ad2e0$14a5490c@pete> I got one of those messages the other day--just one, that I recall, maybe that was because I only posted one email to the list. Evidently someone's computer that bounces back that message somehow when it receives mail from the list... Pete From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Jan 3 17:51:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Jan 3 17:51:01 2004 Subject: [JunkMail] [Rockhounds] Returned mail: User unknown References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040103123739.03097420@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <3FF7616F.6052@Tomaszewski.net> It appears to be due to an AOL subscriber to the list forwarding to an invalid/obsolete address @cs.com. Unfortunately, the bounce messages going back to the poster do not identify the original recipient address (@AOL) so it can be fixed. Aaron's been looking into this one for about a week now. Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > Hi Aaron, > > Hope you are feeling better. Has everyone else been getting mail: User unknown> every time they post something to the List with <----- > The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > ...> ? > > Aloha, Kitty > > At 11:20 AM 12/28/2003, you wrote: > > >I've removed the offender until he can figure out his own damn software. > > > >Aaron, who's stuck in SoCAl with the flu and has little patience. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Jan 3 19:47:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sat Jan 3 19:47:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Returned mail: User unknown Message-ID: <20040104034559.KGQV27510.fed1mtao02.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Kitty, Yes I have. Terrie ...> ? Aloha, Kitty At 11:20 AM 12/28/2003, you wrote: >I've removed the offender until he can figure out his own damn software. > >Aaron, who's stuck in SoCAl with the flu and has little patience. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ============================================================ From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 4 11:36:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sun Jan 4 11:36:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] E-mail address for Sauktown Sales Message-ID: <000801c3d2f8$6be68e20$6f5204d0@jim> Please don't send any correspondence other than Rockhounds list to this = adsnet address. Please use only orders(at)sauktown.com (replace the (at) = with the @ sign). It appears that adsnet has installed a SPAM filter that's much too = enthusiastic. It not only filters out SPAM, but most of my other = correspondence as well. Likewise, if anyone has sent me an order or = inquiry and hasn't gotten a reply, please try again, using the = sauktown.com address. Thanks, Jim Daly Sauktown Sales --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 4 11:58:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Stuart Schmitt) Date: Sun Jan 4 11:58:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Crushing Quartz References: <000801c3d2f8$6be68e20$6f5204d0@jim> Message-ID: <002801c3d2fc$f2a1afe0$6400a8c0@STUART> I have a request to crush quartz crystal to a powder form. Does anyone know of equipment that can do this on a small scale (a few pounds at a time) or of any company that can do this on a small scale. With appreciation & gratitude, Stuart Schmitt Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine www.arcrystalmine.com 60 Mary's Eagle Trail Mount Ida, AR 71957 (870) 867-2443 From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 4 12:12:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kevin Conroy) Date: Sun Jan 4 12:12:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Crushing Quartz References: <000801c3d2f8$6be68e20$6f5204d0@jim> <002801c3d2fc$f2a1afe0$6400a8c0@STUART> Message-ID: <002d01c3d2ff$5da51820$1a8e4a0c@kcmins> Hi! I've found an effective method for doing this to any mineral. Simply take a hammer and chisel, and try to remove a fine quality specimen from it's pocket too quickly! All the best, Kevin www.kcminerals.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart Schmitt" To: Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 1:57 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Crushing Quartz > I have a request to crush quartz crystal to a powder form. Does anyone know > of equipment that can do this on a small scale (a few pounds at a time) or > of any company that can do this on a small scale. > > With appreciation & gratitude, > Stuart Schmitt > Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine > www.arcrystalmine.com > 60 Mary's Eagle Trail > Mount Ida, AR 71957 > (870) 867-2443 > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 4 12:26:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Frank de Wit) Date: Sun Jan 4 12:26:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cornwall pics on strahlen.org Message-ID: <004401c3d300$e0582680$897ba8c0@cm333814lt> Hi all, I uploaded 81 pics of famous Cornwall localities to = http://www.strahlen.org/, have fun ! (maps are coming...) and... Strahlen.org was visited over 25.000 times from may 2003 'till = now, never expected that I want to thank everyone who gave me pics and info in 2003 to share with = others... and hope to continue in 2004 the same way Cheers!! Frank http://www.strahlen.org/ http://www.untertage.com/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 4 12:34:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Jan 4 12:34:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Crushing Quartz In-Reply-To: <002801c3d2fc$f2a1afe0$6400a8c0@STUART> Message-ID: Well it is commercially available, do they want just powdered quartz or some specific specimen reduced to powder? Here is one supplier: http://www.reade.com/Products/Minerals_and_Ores/quartz.html Bryan Samuel Adams advised, "Let us contemplate our forefathers, and posterity, and resolve to maintain the rights bequeathed to us from the former, for the sake of the latter." > I have a request to crush quartz crystal to a powder form. Does > anyone know > of equipment that can do this on a small scale (a few pounds at a time) or > of any company that can do this on a small scale. > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 4 13:35:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (liz fodi) Date: Sun Jan 4 13:35:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] display ideas etc References: <20040101020001.21965.91303.Mailman@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20040101100532.039031e0@mail.aloha.net> <000501c3d22e$30628f40$345204d0@jim> Message-ID: <3FF886E2.9DC918EF@utoronto.ca> Hello All I saved some of the answers when the topic of "pyrite disease", and related topics about preparation, treatment and preservation of specimens, arose on the lists in those days. In odd moments over the years I have compiled and edited for my own files information that is still useful. from long long ago :^} via the rocksandfossils list I quote: "A. by Sally Shelton I have abstracted this information from several sources. One of the best is the chapter on the subject in "The Care and Conservation of Geological Material: Minerals, Rocks, Meteorites and Lunar Finds", edited by Frank M. Howie and published by Butterworths in 1992. (The companion volume on paleontology, edited by Chris Collins of the Geological Conservation Unit at Cambridge University is due out soon.) Frank is the Health and Safety Officer at the Natural History Museum, London (formerly called the BM(NH)), and prior to that worked in the palaeontology section." Liz Fodi Jim Daly wrote: > > There's a lot of information out there, but as far as I know it's never been > compiled in one accessible place. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 4 14:45:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Jan 4 14:45:01 2004 Subject: [JunkMail] [Rockhounds] Crushing Quartz References: <000801c3d2f8$6be68e20$6f5204d0@jim> <002801c3d2fc$f2a1afe0$6400a8c0@STUART> Message-ID: <3FF89739.6EE0@Tomaszewski.net> Stuart, Any swimming pool supply store stocks size graded quartz sand for filters (often made from crushed quartz) in large bags. Finer grades could be considered to be powder. There are companies that make rock crushers and you should be able to find them with a google search. They sell to mines, aggregate suppliers, and road construction firms. Similar suppliers will take the golf ball to pea sized crushed rock and powder it with a second stage of processing. They are used in mining to prepare ore for processing, and in cement plants. These same suppliers usually make miniature versions for use in pilot plants and QA work. Any better than average materials testing lab should be able to process a specific batch of quartz for you on the pound scale. And you can always use a sledge, anvil, and old sock to reduce a pound of quartz to dust. Think of it as revenge for all the specimens you've broken trying to trim them. Kreigh Stuart Schmitt wrote: > > I have a request to crush quartz crystal to a powder form. Does anyone know > of equipment that can do this on a small scale (a few pounds at a time) or > of any company that can do this on a small scale. > > With appreciation & gratitude, > Stuart Schmitt > Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine > www.arcrystalmine.com > 60 Mary's Eagle Trail > Mount Ida, AR 71957 > (870) 867-2443 From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 4 19:18:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (jb) Date: Sun Jan 4 19:18:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Crushing quartz Message-ID: <3FF8D443.9040808@hal-pc.org> When I took my undergrad courses in Chemical Engineering a while back, we had a small rock crusher in the lab for reducing "raw materials". You might try your friendly neighborhood ChemE or CivilEng university program. A good road metal company would have one but they aren't interested in reducing everything to powder, of course... john From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 5 08:14:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Mon Jan 5 08:14:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Bounces Message-ID: Greetings, y'all. I will attempt to track down the bounces this week, now that I'm back in Portland with a reliable Internet connection. I apologize for the delay, but I spent the last week and a half both in bed, fighting pneumonitis, a sinus infection, dual ear infections, and the flu to boot. Plus dealing with an old truck that gave up the ghost while one thousand miles away from home. It's been a shitty Christmas. I'll post more when I get a chance to get things fixed. Once again, sorry about the inconvenience. I'm on it. Aaron -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox Highway Patrolman: "Sir, do you know how fast you were going?" Heisenberg: "No, but I know EXACTLY where I was!" From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 5 08:27:20 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Mark Easterbrook) Date: Mon Jan 5 08:27:20 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] green amber? Message-ID: <410-22004141145334230@earthlink.net> The green baltic is reconstituted to bring out the green color. There is indeed green amber from Simojovel de Allende in Chiapas Mexico. Mark > [Original Message] > From: Dan Z > To: Rockhounds list \(DANIEL\) > Date: 12/17/2003 8:33:27 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] green amber? > > Green amber is found primarily in the Dominican Republic, although there is > also green Baltic. From what I have read, the green color is really a > fluorescence of an included substance. The pieces I have look pretty orange > under incandescent light, but light green/yellow under regular fluorescent > light. One article indicated that the fluorescence may also possibly be > induced by doping the amber somehow, but natural stuff does exist. > > Most amber runs from pale yellow (almost colorless) to deep red. > > -dan- > > > __ > Let the banks dispose of them for you! > Write NO! across those credit card apps, and stuff > everything including the original envelope into the > postage-paid envelope, and mail it all back.... > > Rock Shop: http://www.ManyFacets.com > Personal: http://www.ManyFacets.com/dan > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 5 08:55:59 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon Jan 5 08:55:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Bounces Message-ID: <010520041655.17478.76e2@att.net> Hi Aaron, Sorry you had a punky Christmas with the infections and truck and all. Thanks very much to you, for wrestling with dumb email bouncing problems, too! [I haven't seen any/many more of those bounced emails--this one hasn't been a really big deal, not like the one that generated a list reply to every email received from it.] Thank you for all the work you do in keeping "rockhounds" going--it really is appreciated! And I wish you a better and good New Year, in all ways! sincerely, Pete Modreski From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 5 10:35:16 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (herwig pelckmans) Date: Mon Jan 5 10:35:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: David Shannon Minerals in Arizona Message-ID: <012a01c3d3ba$99b8aaa0$ea935251@pandora.be> Dear List Members, It is with great sadness that I forward the message below. Those who have known David, will agree another mineral legend has passed away. Thousands of collectors were able to expand their collections thanks to this man. His room at the Executive Inn ALWAYS had interesting specimens at reasonable prices. But above all you could FEEL that David had a passion : he lived for his minerals. Tucson will never be the same again. Sincerely, Herwig Herwig Pelckmans Worldwide Mineral Collector Cardijnstraat 12 B-3530 Helchteren Belgium Europe http://www.xlizd.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pelckmans Herwig" To: "herwig" Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 2:45 PM Subject: FW: [micromounts] David Shannon Minerals in Arizona > -----Original Message----- > From: yannathena [SMTP:janeelsa@msn.com] > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 8:21 AM > To: micromounts@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [micromounts] David Shannon Minerals in Arizona > > David Shannon passed away on January 2, 2004 under tragic > circumstances. If anybody would like to send a sympathy card to his > widow, Colleen, here is the address: > > David Shannon Minerals > 6649 E. Rustic Drive > Mesa, AZ 85215 > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 5 10:47:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon Jan 5 10:47:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Bounces Message-ID: <20040105184503.WIRE27510.fed1mtao02.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Aaron, Seems to be an epidemic of sorts. Got similar ailments the day after I got to Texas. It has been tough, coughing the 12 Days of Christmas, plus a few more. Take care of yourself, and feel much better quickly. Terrie From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 5 10:47:08 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Jan 5 10:47:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Bounces In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040105085804.02381320@mail.aloha.net> Hay, Aaron, take it easy and get well. What an awful blow of illnesses! Thanks for your work on the List, and we all wish you a swift recovery and a better new year. Aloha, Kitty At 06:13 AM 1/5/2004, you wrote: >Greetings, y'all. > >I will attempt to track down the bounces this week, now that I'm back in >Portland with a reliable Internet connection. I apologize for the delay, >but I spent the last week and a half both in bed, fighting pneumonitis, a >sinus infection, dual ear infections, and the flu to boot. Plus dealing >with an old truck that gave up the ghost while one thousand miles away >from home. It's been a shitty Christmas. > >I'll post more when I get a chance to get things fixed. Once again, sorry >about the inconvenience. I'm on it. > >Aaron > >-- > afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox > Highway Patrolman: "Sir, do you know how fast you were going?" > Heisenberg: "No, but I know EXACTLY where I was!" > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 5 10:51:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Mon Jan 5 10:51:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Bounces *should* be stopped now Message-ID: With the help of some hints from Kreigh and John Cornish, plus tracking down the original authors, I've found and purged the dead email address. You might get a bounce or two today that was in the queue, but they should shut off after that. Sorry about the inconvenience; talk amongst yourselves! No need to reply to this message (just a status update) ;-) Aaron R.A. -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox Highway Patrolman: "Sir, do you know how fast you were going?" Heisenberg: "No, but I know EXACTLY where I was!" From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 5 10:54:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Jan 5 10:54:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Spirit on Mars Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040105090805.02384ec0@mail.aloha.net> Bill and I were delighted to hear of the successful landing and first pictures transmitted from Mars by the Spirit rover. It was especially pleasing to see that out local newspaper devoted 3/4 of the front page to the Bravo! Aloha, Kitty --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 5 11:04:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Mon Jan 5 11:04:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hi and the first paper of the New Year In-Reply-To: <3FF4EDD4.247F@Tomaszewski.net> References: <3FF4D69D.1050906@tenforward.com> <3FF4EDD4.247F@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <3FF9B4E4.4060101@tenforward.com> Thanks Kreigh, as the only one who wrote, I really appreciate your kind words. All the very best, John Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >John, > >Thank you for sharing. It was a very good read and it let me learn from >a side of the hobby I don't normally follow (i.e., collecting fossils). > >Kreigh > > > >John and Gloria Cornish wrote: > > >>Hi Everyone, >> >>I hope you all had terrific Holidays! Below you'll find the newest paper >>of 2004, I hope you enjoy! All the very best everyone! Sincerely, >> >>John >> >>P.S. Look for me in Tucson at the Inn Suites this year, room #169. >>I'll be sharing the room with Scott Kleine of Great Basin Minerals >>(please consider checking out Scott's website at greatbasinminerals.com >>We did the 2003 Denver Show together and you can see our room and read >>the Show Report posted on Scott's website by clicking on... >> >>http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Mineral%20Show%20Pix/Denver%202003%20Show%20Pix%20Page.htm >> >>I hope your all able to stop by and say hello! Take care! JC >> >>Jump In, The Waters Fine; Eurypterid Collecting In New York >> >>By John Cornish >>j&gcornish@tenforward.com >> >>My flight was leaving in the morning, I'd be traveling from Port >>Angeles, Washington to the small village of Ilion, in southern Herkimer >>County, New York and from there, I'd be traveling back in time to an >>ancient, exotic world existing over 400 million years ago. If I >> >> >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 5 11:37:09 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Jim Daly) Date: Mon Jan 5 11:37:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: David Shannon Minerals in Arizona References: <012a01c3d3ba$99b8aaa0$ea935251@pandora.be> Message-ID: <001101c3d3c2$18bd9660$295204d0@jim> I'd like to second Herwig's comments. David was always generous with sharing directions to collecting localities whenever I was in Arizona. I always made it a point to see him whenever I visited my daughter, just to talk and prowl around in his "warehouse", if nothing else. He'll be sorely missed. Jim Daly ----- Original Message ----- From: "herwig pelckmans" To: Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 12:34 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: David Shannon Minerals in Arizona > Dear List Members, > > It is with great sadness that I forward the message below. > Those who have known David, will agree another mineral legend has passed > away. > Thousands of collectors were able to expand their collections thanks to this > man. > His room at the Executive Inn ALWAYS had interesting specimens at reasonable > prices. > But above all you could FEEL that David had a passion : he lived for his > minerals. > Tucson will never be the same again. > > Sincerely, Herwig > > Herwig Pelckmans > Worldwide Mineral Collector > Cardijnstraat 12 > B-3530 Helchteren > Belgium Europe > http://www.xlizd.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pelckmans Herwig" > To: "herwig" > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 2:45 PM > Subject: FW: [micromounts] David Shannon Minerals in Arizona > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: yannathena [SMTP:janeelsa@msn.com] > > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 8:21 AM > > To: micromounts@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [micromounts] David Shannon Minerals in Arizona > > > > David Shannon passed away on January 2, 2004 under tragic > > circumstances. If anybody would like to send a sympathy card to his > > widow, Colleen, here is the address: > > > > David Shannon Minerals > > 6649 E. Rustic Drive > > Mesa, AZ 85215 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 5 11:57:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Jan 5 11:57:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Bounces *should* be stopped now References: Message-ID: <3FF9C153.54BD@Tomaszewski.net> Aaron Fox wrote: > > With the help of some hints from Kreigh and John Cornish, plus tracking > down the original authors, I've found and purged the dead email address. > You might get a bounce or two today that was in the queue, but they > should shut off after that. > > Sorry about the inconvenience; talk amongst yourselves! No need to reply > to this message (just a status update) ;-) > > Aaron > R.A. > > -- > afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox > Highway Patrolman: "Sir, do you know how fast you were going?" > Heisenberg: "No, but I know EXACTLY where I was!" Aaron's Uncertainty Principle: I know where the bounces are coming from, but not when they will stop. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 5 12:13:09 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Rik Dillen) Date: Mon Jan 5 12:13:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] David Shannon Minerals in Arizona In-Reply-To: <012a01c3d3ba$99b8aaa0$ea935251@pandora.be> Message-ID: <000001c3d3c8$22bff030$80abf151@maxdata> With unbelief and big sadness I heard that David passed away. I was just intending to send him a fax announcing that I would be able to meet him and Colleen, his wife, in Tucson this year and to enquire about some mineral species/specimens. During the many years that I have known David (must be some 25 years or so !), he became a good friend, despite the fact that I met him only quite irregularly. He was a fine person, and I can assure you I will miss him very much. I still can't believe it. Numerous minerals in my collection will forever carry his name as the supplier and/or finder. I have visited him several times at home and in Tucson. He will live forever in my memory as someone who lived for his minerals AND his family. But above all, he was a friendly and nice man and friend. I will send tomorrow morning a fax to Colleen to wish her, her children and grand-children a lot of strength and warmth during these very difficult weeks and months. I hope it is a support for her to know that also at the other side of the world people sympathize with her. As Herwig stated already, Tucson will never be the same again. Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15 B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium Tel. + 32 3 7706007 E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of *herwig pelckmans *Sent: maandag 5 januari 2004 19:35 *To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com *Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: David Shannon Minerals in Arizona * * *Dear List Members, * *It is with great sadness that I forward the message below. *Those who have known David, will agree another mineral legend *has passed away. Thousands of collectors were able to expand *their collections thanks to this man. His room at the *Executive Inn ALWAYS had interesting specimens at reasonable *prices. But above all you could FEEL that David had a passion *: he lived for his minerals. Tucson will never be the same again. * *Sincerely, Herwig * *Herwig Pelckmans *Worldwide Mineral Collector *Cardijnstraat 12 *B-3530 Helchteren *Belgium Europe *http://www.xlizd.com * *----- Original Message ----- *From: "Pelckmans Herwig" *To: "herwig" *Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 2:45 PM *Subject: FW: [micromounts] David Shannon Minerals in Arizona * * * * *> -----Original Message----- *> From: yannathena [SMTP:janeelsa@msn.com] *> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 8:21 AM *> To: micromounts@yahoogroups.com *> Subject: [micromounts] David Shannon Minerals in Arizona *> *> David Shannon passed away on January 2, 2004 under tragic *> circumstances. If anybody would like to send a sympathy card to his *> widow, Colleen, here is the address: *> *> David Shannon Minerals *> 6649 E. Rustic Drive *> Mesa, AZ 85215 *> * * *_______________________________________________ *Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List *WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds *Subscription Services: *http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds * * From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 5 16:53:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon Jan 5 16:53:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Fluorescent mica Message-ID: <010620040052.24352.7ebf@att.net> Dear Bill, Fluorescent mica: not uncommon In New Jersey and Pennsylvania, I found fluorescent phlogopite. Identifying the right mica is the thoughest part. Johan From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 5 17:54:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Thomas Yancey) Date: Mon Jan 5 17:54:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: David Shannon Minerals in Arizona In-Reply-To: <000001c3d3c8$22bff030$80abf151@maxdata> References: <000001c3d3c8$22bff030$80abf151@maxdata> Message-ID: It is indeed incredible to hear that David Shannon has died. I have purchased hundreds of different species of minerals from him and expected to do so for years to come. I regularly scan the catalog that he sent out nearly every month. David provided the foundation for my mineral species collection, at prices I could afford, and has been a remarkable resource. Can someone provide more details of this tragic event? Does anyone know if Colleen and Michael will continue the business? Incredible. At least he had a mineral named for him while he was alive to appreciate the honor. Tom Yancey From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 6 05:41:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Anita Westlake) Date: Tue Jan 6 05:41:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals Message-ID: <3FFABACE.000015.01208@anitaw.library.emory.edu> Dear Rockheads:=0D I just got this off my meteorite list and thought I'd pass it along:=0D =0D Anita=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: Fredmeteorhall@aol.com=0D Date: Monday, January 05, 2004 10:40:25 PM=0D To: baalke@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com=0D Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals=0D =0D Fellow Meteorite Collectors,=0D Before ingesting, or DRY polishing meteorites, fossils or minerals, keep this in mind: =0D Mineral samples can be as dangerous as any chemical found in the chemistry laboratory. It only takes 0.3 grams of the mineral orpiment (Arsenic sulfide, can be found in Nevada, USA) to kill a 150 pound person= =2E=20 Around the same amount of arsenopyrite will be fatal. Realgar (another Arsenic sulfide) is similarly dangerous. Greenocite (cadmium sulfide) is very toxic if ingested, and inhalations can be as dangerous as ingestion.= =0D Poison fumes can be released by HEATING and by blowpipe lab testing. Minerals of antimony, nickel, barium, cadmium, lead, mercury, selenium an= d zinc are to be treated with care.=0D Licking or tasting minerals in the field is as risky as tasting mushrooms in the field to see if they are poisonous. These include antimo= ny, arsenic, barium, boron, cadmium, cobalt, iron, lead, mercury, nickel, selenium and zinc. Harmful effects are most likely if the mineral is solu= ble in water or stomach acid. Acute symptoms include dryness and burning of t= he nasal cavities, gastroenteritis, delirium (note Dave Freeman!) coma and death.=0D The borax minerals, colemanite, kernite and sodium borate (borax) ar= e assumed by many to be safe since they are used in laundry products. These cause several deaths a year (In the USA or worldwide? Article did not sta= te ) as the borax is absorbed through cuts or through the skin. Three grams = in the body of a child is sufficient to kill. (So don't try using a borax laundry soap for the kids bubble bath, unless you're tired of the little boogers!)=0D Iron, especially ferrous sulfate (melamterite) can result in death f= rom as little as 0.4 grams. (By the way guys, don't take your wife's "Made fo= r Women Vitamins and Minerals" as men don't require near as much iron as wo= men and the extra iron in the daily vitamin has been known to cause health problems for men.)=0D This is not a complete list, watch out when working with unknown minerals.=0D Have A Safe and Happy New Year, Fred Hall, member of the Colorado Meteori= te Society (COMETS) and the Colorado Mineral Society.=0D =0D =20 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/gif --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 6 06:04:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Tue Jan 6 06:04:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] David Shannon Minerals (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 06:13:11 -0700 From: Jane Granneman To: afox@drizzle.com Subject: David Shannon Minerals David Shannon passed away on January 2, 2004. If anybody would like to send a sympathy card to his widow, Colleen, I'm sure they would be very much appreciated and may help her to get through this difficult time. The address is - Colleen Shannon c/o David Shannon Minerals 6649 E. Rustic Drive Mesa, AZ 85215 U.S.A. Thank you From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 6 07:34:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Tue Jan 6 07:34:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals Message-ID: <36.4eb6a2b2.2d2c2f28@aol.com> Anita..that was very informative..and for a novice mineral collector.. very educational! I didn't know alot of that..and I for one, appreciate you sending it for us un-informed novices! Thank you! Jackie --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 6 09:26:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jan 6 09:26:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals References: <3FFABACE.000015.01208@anitaw.library.emory.edu> Message-ID: <000d01c3d47a$17ede0b0$109d77d5@axel> Hi Anita, informative? Yes... complete?... Well, there may be some items we want to add... Beryllium will give you cancer so polishing emeralds or other beryl varieties may be a perilous occupation. Thorium and hafnium in zircons and chrysoberyls may radiate strong enough to kill the person who wears them regularly. I don't go near an ocean or sea since I learned that 37 grams of NaCl is enough to kill a grown man (the text didn't say " grown person" and neither was there any mention of women... I guess you are safe if you take it with a grain of salt... LOL). We all look a pollution with fear-filled eyes but ignore the killers that hide in the cupboard. For example: those of use who like to drink a glass of wine with their daily meal should consider throwing out their crystal and start using plain glasses. Crystal contains lead oxide (often more than 12%) which gives it a high refractive index. The lead, however, is quite soluble in the acids and other chemicals that make wine so tasteful. It is no coincidence that senility and other (often undiagnosed) symptoms of lead poisoning were common among the upper class in the past few centuries. If we need to show off, we'd better use gold goblets... or chalices cut from quartz (or some non-toxic wood). Furthermore: men with brass balls risk blue blood from the copper in the brass... Noblesse oblige! Anything that is alien to our body must be considered as harmful. I often wonder how many people got various cancers because of chemicals in their cosmetics??? Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anita Westlake" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 2:40 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals Dear Rockheads: I just got this off my meteorite list and thought I'd pass it along: Anita -------Original Message------- From: Fredmeteorhall@aol.com Date: Monday, January 05, 2004 10:40:25 PM To: baalke@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals Fellow Meteorite Collectors, Before ingesting, or DRY polishing meteorites, fossils or minerals, keep this in mind: Mineral samples can be as dangerous as any chemical found in the chemistry laboratory. It only takes 0.3 grams of the mineral orpiment (Arsenic sulfide, can be found in Nevada, USA) to kill a 150 pound person. Around the same amount of arsenopyrite will be fatal. Realgar (another Arsenic sulfide) is similarly dangerous. Greenocite (cadmium sulfide) is very toxic if ingested, and inhalations can be as dangerous as ingestion. Poison fumes can be released by HEATING and by blowpipe lab testing. Minerals of antimony, nickel, barium, cadmium, lead, mercury, selenium and zinc are to be treated with care. Licking or tasting minerals in the field is as risky as tasting mushrooms in the field to see if they are poisonous. These include antimony, arsenic, barium, boron, cadmium, cobalt, iron, lead, mercury, nickel, selenium and zinc. Harmful effects are most likely if the mineral is soluble in water or stomach acid. Acute symptoms include dryness and burning of the nasal cavities, gastroenteritis, delirium (note Dave Freeman!) coma and death. The borax minerals, colemanite, kernite and sodium borate (borax) are assumed by many to be safe since they are used in laundry products. These cause several deaths a year (In the USA or worldwide? Article did not state ) as the borax is absorbed through cuts or through the skin. Three grams in the body of a child is sufficient to kill. (So don't try using a borax laundry soap for the kids bubble bath, unless you're tired of the little boogers!) Iron, especially ferrous sulfate (melamterite) can result in death from as little as 0.4 grams. (By the way guys, don't take your wife's "Made for Women Vitamins and Minerals" as men don't require near as much iron as women and the extra iron in the daily vitamin has been known to cause health problems for men.) This is not a complete list, watch out when working with unknown minerals. Have A Safe and Happy New Year, Fred Hall, member of the Colorado Meteorite Society (COMETS) and the Colorado Mineral Society. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/gif --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 6 10:12:07 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Jan 6 10:12:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals In-Reply-To: <000d01c3d47a$17ede0b0$109d77d5@axel> References: <3FFABACE.000015.01208@anitaw.library.emory.edu> <000d01c3d47a$17ede0b0$109d77d5@axel> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040106101107.01e7f160@mail.spiritone.com> Axel, I agree, everything will kill you so we should all give up this hobby and be afraid to even touch a rock. IMHO. (sarcasm intended) At 09:25 AM 1/6/2004, you wrote: >Hi Anita, > >informative? Yes... complete?... Well, there may be some items we want to >add... >Beryllium will give you cancer so polishing emeralds or other beryl >varieties may be a perilous occupation. >Thorium and hafnium in zircons and chrysoberyls may radiate strong enough to >kill the person who wears them regularly. >I don't go near an ocean or sea since I learned that 37 grams of NaCl is >enough to kill a grown man (the text didn't say " grown person" and neither >was there any mention of women... I guess you are safe if you take it with a >grain of salt... LOL). > >We all look a pollution with fear-filled eyes but ignore the killers that >hide in the cupboard. For example: those of use who like to drink a glass of >wine with their daily meal should consider throwing out their crystal and >start using plain glasses. Crystal contains lead oxide (often more than 12%) >which gives it a high refractive index. The lead, however, is quite soluble >in the acids and other chemicals that make wine so tasteful. It is no >coincidence that senility and other (often undiagnosed) symptoms of lead >poisoning were common among the upper class in the past few centuries. >If we need to show off, we'd better use gold goblets... or chalices cut from >quartz (or some non-toxic wood). > >Furthermore: men with brass balls risk blue blood from the copper in the >brass... Noblesse oblige! > >Anything that is alien to our body must be considered as harmful. I often >wonder how many people got various cancers because of chemicals in their >cosmetics??? > >Cheers > >Axel > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Anita Westlake" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 2:40 PM >Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals > > >Dear Rockheads: > I just got this off my meteorite list and thought I'd pass it along: > >Anita > >-------Original Message------- > >From: Fredmeteorhall@aol.com >Date: Monday, January 05, 2004 10:40:25 PM >To: baalke@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals > >Fellow Meteorite Collectors, > Before ingesting, or DRY polishing meteorites, fossils or minerals, >keep this in mind: > Mineral samples can be as dangerous as any chemical found in the >chemistry laboratory. It only takes 0.3 grams of the mineral orpiment >(Arsenic sulfide, can be found in Nevada, USA) to kill a 150 pound person. >Around the same amount of arsenopyrite will be fatal. Realgar (another >Arsenic sulfide) is similarly dangerous. Greenocite (cadmium sulfide) is >very toxic if ingested, and inhalations can be as dangerous as ingestion. > Poison fumes can be released by HEATING and by blowpipe lab testing. >Minerals of antimony, nickel, barium, cadmium, lead, mercury, selenium and >zinc are to be treated with care. > Licking or tasting minerals in the field is as risky as tasting >mushrooms in the field to see if they are poisonous. These include antimony, >arsenic, barium, boron, cadmium, cobalt, iron, lead, mercury, nickel, >selenium and zinc. Harmful effects are most likely if the mineral is soluble >in water or stomach acid. Acute symptoms include dryness and burning of the >nasal cavities, gastroenteritis, delirium (note Dave Freeman!) coma and >death. > The borax minerals, colemanite, kernite and sodium borate (borax) are >assumed by many to be safe since they are used in laundry products. These >cause several deaths a year (In the USA or worldwide? Article did not state >) as the borax is absorbed through cuts or through the skin. Three grams in >the body of a child is sufficient to kill. (So don't try using a borax >laundry soap for the kids bubble bath, unless you're tired of the little >boogers!) > Iron, especially ferrous sulfate (melamterite) can result in death from >as little as 0.4 grams. (By the way guys, don't take your wife's "Made for >Women Vitamins and Minerals" as men don't require near as much iron as women > and the extra iron in the daily vitamin has been known to cause health >problems for men.) > This is not a complete list, watch out when working with unknown >minerals. >Have A Safe and Happy New Year, Fred Hall, member of the Colorado Meteorite >Society (COMETS) and the Colorado Mineral Society. > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/related > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > image/gif >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 6 10:26:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Anita Westlake) Date: Tue Jan 6 10:26:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals References: <000d01c3d47a$17ede0b0$109d77d5@axel> Message-ID: <3FFAFD8E.00002C.01208@anitaw.library.emory.edu> Thanks Axel. A couple of others: inhaling any airborne rock/mineral/chemical can't be good for you or other living things. Whene= ver I carve talc, I do it outside (and not on a windy day!). When I use a coolant other than water for a rock saw I wear a mask. When I do the fina= l polish on a leather wheel for a cabochon, I keep the wheel wet wet wet so= I don't inhale aluminum oxide or flying rock dust. I love rocks, but not enough to have them become a permanent part of my lungs.=0D A friend of mine continues to "lick rocks" in the field. I'm just waiting for the day he picks up hardened rabbit poop.=0D =0D Anita=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com=0D Date: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 12:26:18 PM=0D To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com=0D Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals=0D =0D Hi Anita,=0D =0D informative? Yes... complete?... Well, there may be some items we want to= =0D add...=0D Beryllium will give you cancer so polishing emeralds or other beryl=0D varieties may be a perilous occupation.=0D Thorium and hafnium in zircons and chrysoberyls may radiate strong enough= to=0D kill the person who wears them regularly.=0D I don't go near an ocean or sea since I learned that 37 grams of NaCl is=0D enough to kill a grown man (the text didn't say " grown person" and neith= er=0D was there any mention of women... I guess you are safe if you take it wit= h a=0D grain of salt... LOL).=0D =0D We all look a pollution with fear-filled eyes but ignore the killers that= =0D hide in the cupboard. For example: those of use who like to drink a glass= of=0D wine with their daily meal should consider throwing out their crystal and= =0D start using plain glasses. Crystal contains lead oxide (often more than 1= 2%)=0D which gives it a high refractive index. The lead, however, is quite solub= le=0D in the acids and other chemicals that make wine so tasteful. It is no=0D coincidence that senility and other (often undiagnosed) symptoms of lead=0D poisoning were common among the upper class in the past few centuries.=0D If we need to show off, we'd better use gold goblets... or chalices cut f= rom=0D quartz (or some non-toxic wood).=0D =0D Furthermore: men with brass balls risk blue blood from the copper in the=0D brass... Noblesse oblige!=0D =0D Anything that is alien to our body must be considered as harmful. I often= =0D wonder how many people got various cancers because of chemicals in their=0D cosmetics???=0D =0D Cheers=0D =0D Axel=0D =0D ----- Original Message ----- =0D From: "Anita Westlake" =0D To: =0D Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 2:40 PM=0D Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals=0D =0D =0D Dear Rockheads:=0D I just got this off my meteorite list and thought I'd pass it along:=0D =0D Anita=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: Fredmeteorhall@aol.com=0D Date: Monday, January 05, 2004 10:40:25 PM=0D To: baalke@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com=0D Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals=0D =0D Fellow Meteorite Collectors,=0D Before ingesting, or DRY polishing meteorites, fossils or minerals,=0D keep this in mind:=0D Mineral samples can be as dangerous as any chemical found in the=0D chemistry laboratory. It only takes 0.3 grams of the mineral orpiment=0D (Arsenic sulfide, can be found in Nevada, USA) to kill a 150 pound person= =2E=0D Around the same amount of arsenopyrite will be fatal. Realgar (another=0D Arsenic sulfide) is similarly dangerous. Greenocite (cadmium sulfide) is=0D very toxic if ingested, and inhalations can be as dangerous as ingestion.= =0D Poison fumes can be released by HEATING and by blowpipe lab testing.=0D Minerals of antimony, nickel, barium, cadmium, lead, mercury, selenium an= d=0D zinc are to be treated with care.=0D Licking or tasting minerals in the field is as risky as tasting=0D mushrooms in the field to see if they are poisonous. These include antimo= ny,=0D arsenic, barium, boron, cadmium, cobalt, iron, lead, mercury, nickel,=0D selenium and zinc. Harmful effects are most likely if the mineral is solu= ble=0D in water or stomach acid. Acute symptoms include dryness and burning of t= he=0D nasal cavities, gastroenteritis, delirium (note Dave Freeman!) coma and=0D death.=0D The borax minerals, colemanite, kernite and sodium borate (borax) are=0D assumed by many to be safe since they are used in laundry products. These= =0D cause several deaths a year (In the USA or worldwide? Article did not sta= te=0D ) as the borax is absorbed through cuts or through the skin. Three grams = in=0D the body of a child is sufficient to kill. (So don't try using a borax=0D laundry soap for the kids bubble bath, unless you're tired of the little=0D boogers!)=0D Iron, especially ferrous sulfate (melamterite) can result in death from=0D as little as 0.4 grams. (By the way guys, don't take your wife's "Made fo= r=0D Women Vitamins and Minerals" as men don't require near as much iron as wo= men=0D and the extra iron in the daily vitamin has been known to cause health=0D problems for men.)=0D This is not a complete list, watch out when working with unknown=0D minerals.=0D Have A Safe and Happy New Year, Fred Hall, member of the Colorado Meteori= te=0D Society (COMETS) and the Colorado Mineral Society.=0D =0D =0D =0D --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---=0D multipart/related=0D multipart/alternative=0D text/plain (text body -- kept)=0D text/html=0D image/gif=0D ---=0D _______________________________________________=0D Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List=0D WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds=0D Subscription Services:=0D http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds=0D =0D =0D =0D =0D _______________________________________________=0D Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List=0D WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds=0D Subscription Services:=0D http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds=0D =2E=20 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/gif image/jpeg --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 6 11:08:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Tue Jan 6 11:08:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals In-Reply-To: <3FFAFD8E.00002C.01208@anitaw.library.emory.edu> Message-ID: Licking rocks is a great analytical method. If the rock tastes salty it is probably halite, if the rock tastes bitter it is probably crandallite and if you drop dead it is probably notlickite. As Axel said you should see things in perspective. If you saw and polish rocks it is better to wear a mask. And of course you should not eat (or lick) too many rocks on a single day. But licking an orpiment really won't kill you on the spot. If I go with your 0.3 gramms (I did not check the lethal dose of arsenicsulphide)that is about a quarter to half a teaspoon. You won't lick that of a normal rock. But it is defenitely not the healthiest thing to do. Licking arsenic trioxide (arsenolite)is allready more dangerous, because arsenic trioxide dissolves more readily. The 'it is natural so it must be good' attitude does not work with rocks, nor with much else. Many plants, animals and mushrooms are MUCH more poisonous than minerals. I'm off eating some peanuts with Halite, Maurice -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Anita Westlake Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 7:25 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals Thanks Axel. A couple of others: inhaling any airborne rock/mineral/chemical can't be good for you or other living things. Whenever I carve talc, I do it outside (and not on a windy day!). When I use a coolant other than water for a rock saw I wear a mask. When I do the final polish on a leather wheel for a cabochon, I keep the wheel wet wet wet so I don't inhale aluminum oxide or flying rock dust. I love rocks, but not enough to have them become a permanent part of my lungs. A friend of mine continues to "lick rocks" in the field. I'm just waiting for the day he picks up hardened rabbit poop. Anita -------Original Message------- From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Date: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 12:26:18 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals Hi Anita, informative? Yes... complete?... Well, there may be some items we want to add... Beryllium will give you cancer so polishing emeralds or other beryl varieties may be a perilous occupation. Thorium and hafnium in zircons and chrysoberyls may radiate strong enough to kill the person who wears them regularly. I don't go near an ocean or sea since I learned that 37 grams of NaCl is enough to kill a grown man (the text didn't say " grown person" and neither was there any mention of women... I guess you are safe if you take it with a grain of salt... LOL). We all look a pollution with fear-filled eyes but ignore the killers that hide in the cupboard. For example: those of use who like to drink a glass of wine with their daily meal should consider throwing out their crystal and start using plain glasses. Crystal contains lead oxide (often more than 12%) which gives it a high refractive index. The lead, however, is quite soluble in the acids and other chemicals that make wine so tasteful. It is no coincidence that senility and other (often undiagnosed) symptoms of lead poisoning were common among the upper class in the past few centuries. If we need to show off, we'd better use gold goblets... or chalices cut from quartz (or some non-toxic wood). Furthermore: men with brass balls risk blue blood from the copper in the brass... Noblesse oblige! Anything that is alien to our body must be considered as harmful. I often wonder how many people got various cancers because of chemicals in their cosmetics??? Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anita Westlake" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 2:40 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals Dear Rockheads: I just got this off my meteorite list and thought I'd pass it along: Anita -------Original Message------- From: Fredmeteorhall@aol.com Date: Monday, January 05, 2004 10:40:25 PM To: baalke@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals Fellow Meteorite Collectors, Before ingesting, or DRY polishing meteorites, fossils or minerals, keep this in mind: Mineral samples can be as dangerous as any chemical found in the chemistry laboratory. It only takes 0.3 grams of the mineral orpiment (Arsenic sulfide, can be found in Nevada, USA) to kill a 150 pound person. Around the same amount of arsenopyrite will be fatal. Realgar (another Arsenic sulfide) is similarly dangerous. Greenocite (cadmium sulfide) is very toxic if ingested, and inhalations can be as dangerous as ingestion. Poison fumes can be released by HEATING and by blowpipe lab testing. Minerals of antimony, nickel, barium, cadmium, lead, mercury, selenium and zinc are to be treated with care. Licking or tasting minerals in the field is as risky as tasting mushrooms in the field to see if they are poisonous. These include antimony, arsenic, barium, boron, cadmium, cobalt, iron, lead, mercury, nickel, selenium and zinc. Harmful effects are most likely if the mineral is soluble in water or stomach acid. Acute symptoms include dryness and burning of the nasal cavities, gastroenteritis, delirium (note Dave Freeman!) coma and death. The borax minerals, colemanite, kernite and sodium borate (borax) are assumed by many to be safe since they are used in laundry products. These cause several deaths a year (In the USA or worldwide? Article did not state ) as the borax is absorbed through cuts or through the skin. Three grams in the body of a child is sufficient to kill. (So don't try using a borax laundry soap for the kids bubble bath, unless you're tired of the little boogers!) Iron, especially ferrous sulfate (melamterite) can result in death from as little as 0.4 grams. (By the way guys, don't take your wife's "Made for Women Vitamins and Minerals" as men don't require near as much iron as women and the extra iron in the daily vitamin has been known to cause health problems for men.) This is not a complete list, watch out when working with unknown minerals. Have A Safe and Happy New Year, Fred Hall, member of the Colorado Meteorite Society (COMETS) and the Colorado Mineral Society. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/gif --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds . --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/gif image/jpeg --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 6 11:17:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Frank de Wit) Date: Tue Jan 6 11:17:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals References: Message-ID: <002101c3d489$90505e20$897ba8c0@cm333814lt> tsssjjj Maurice Maurice Maurice... notlickit is not a mineral, see http://www.mindat.org/search.php?name=notlickite but ablickite http://www.mindat.org/min-4440.html is... so you should not lick stones, but ablick them to analyse them hahaha cheers! frank ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice de Graaf" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 8:07 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals > Licking rocks is a great analytical method. If the rock tastes salty it is > probably halite, if the rock tastes bitter it is probably crandallite and if > you drop dead it is probably notlickite. > > As Axel said you should see things in perspective. If you saw and polish > rocks it is better to wear a mask. And of course you should not eat (or > lick) too many rocks on a single day. But licking an orpiment really won't > kill you on the spot. If I go with your 0.3 gramms (I did not check the > lethal dose of arsenicsulphide)that is about a quarter to half a teaspoon. > You won't lick that of a normal rock. But it is defenitely not the > healthiest thing to do. Licking arsenic trioxide (arsenolite)is allready > more dangerous, because arsenic trioxide dissolves more readily. > > The 'it is natural so it must be good' attitude does not work with rocks, > nor with much else. Many plants, animals and mushrooms are MUCH more > poisonous than minerals. > > I'm off eating some peanuts with Halite, > > Maurice > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Anita Westlake > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 7:25 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals > > > Thanks Axel. A couple of others: inhaling any airborne > rock/mineral/chemical can't be good for you or other living things. Whenever > I carve talc, I do it outside (and not on a windy day!). When I use a > coolant other than water for a rock saw I wear a mask. When I do the final > polish on a leather wheel for a cabochon, I keep the wheel wet wet wet so I > don't inhale aluminum oxide or flying rock dust. I love rocks, but not > enough to have them become a permanent part of my lungs. A friend of mine > continues to "lick rocks" in the field. I'm just waiting > for the day he picks up hardened rabbit poop. Anita -------Original > Message------- From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Date: Tuesday, January > 06, 2004 12:26:18 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: > [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals Hi Anita, > informative? Yes... complete?... Well, there may be some items we want to > add... Beryllium will give you cancer so polishing emeralds or other beryl > varieties may be a perilous occupation. Thorium and hafnium in zircons and > chrysoberyls may radiate strong enough to kill the person who wears them > regularly. I don't go near an ocean or sea since I learned that 37 grams of > NaCl is enough to kill a grown man (the text didn't say " grown person" and > neither was there any mention of women... I guess you are safe if you take > it with a grain of salt... LOL). We all look a pollution with fear-filled > eyes but ignore the killers that hide in the cupboard. For example: those of > use who like to drink a glass of wine with their daily meal should consider > throwing out their crystal and start using plain glasses. Crystal contains > lead oxide (often more than 12%) which gives it a high refractive index. The > lead, however, is quite soluble in the acids and other chemicals that make > wine so tasteful. It is no coincidence that senility and other (often > undiagnosed) symptoms of lead poisoning were common among the upper class in > the past few centuries. If we need to show off, we'd better use gold > goblets... or chalices cut from quartz (or some non-toxic wood). > Furthermore: men with brass balls risk blue blood from the copper in the > brass... Noblesse oblige! Anything that is alien to our body must be > considered as harmful. I often wonder how many people got various cancers > because of chemicals in their cosmetics??? Cheers Axel ----- Original > Message ----- From: "Anita Westlake" To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 2:40 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals Dear > Rockheads: I just got this off my meteorite list and thought I'd pass it > along: Anita -------Original Message------- From: Fredmeteorhall@aol.com > Date: Monday, January 05, 2004 10:40:25 PM To: baalke@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov; > meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic > Minerals Fellow Meteorite Collectors, Before ingesting, or DRY polishing > meteorites, fossils or minerals, keep this in mind: Mineral samples can be > as dangerous as any chemical found in the chemistry laboratory. It only > takes 0.3 grams of the mineral orpiment (Arsenic sulfide, can be found in > Nevada, USA) to kill a 150 pound person. Around the same amount of > arsenopyrite will be fatal. Realgar (another Arsenic sulfide) is similarly > dangerous. Greenocite (cadmium sulfide) is very toxic if ingested, and > inhalations can be as dangerous as ingestion. Poison fumes can be released > by HEATING and by blowpipe lab testing. Minerals of antimony, nickel, > barium, cadmium, lead, mercury, selenium and zinc are to be treated with > care. Licking or tasting minerals in the field is as risky as tasting > mushrooms in the field to see if they are poisonous. These include antimony, > arsenic, barium, boron, cadmium, cobalt, iron, lead, mercury, nickel, > selenium and zinc. Harmful effects are most likely if the mineral is soluble > in water or stomach acid. Acute symptoms include dryness and burning of the > nasal cavities, gastroenteritis, delirium (note Dave Freeman!) coma and > death. The borax minerals, colemanite, kernite and sodium borate (borax) are > assumed by many to be safe since they are used in laundry products. These > cause several deaths a year (In the USA or worldwide? Article did not > state ) as the borax is absorbed through cuts or through the skin. Three > grams in the body of a child is sufficient to kill. (So don't try using a > borax laundry soap for the kids bubble bath, unless you're tired of the > little boogers!) Iron, especially ferrous sulfate (melamterite) can result > in death from as little as 0.4 grams. (By the way guys, don't take your > wife's "Made for Women Vitamins and Minerals" as men don't require near as > much iron as women and the extra iron in the daily vitamin has been known to > cause health problems for men.) This is not a complete list, watch out when > working with unknown minerals. Have A Safe and Happy New Year, Fred Hall, > member of the Colorado Meteorite Society (COMETS) and the Colorado Mineral > Society. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html image/gif --- _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing > List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds . > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/related > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > image/gif > image/jpeg > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 6 11:20:11 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Frank de Wit) Date: Tue Jan 6 11:20:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals Message-ID: <003501c3d48a$00a6c290$897ba8c0@cm333814lt> o yeah, i forgot... stupid me you can buy ablickite http://www.mindat.org/loc-4241.html here in the supermarket, next to the halite flavoured peanuts... cheers again ! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank de Wit" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals > tsssjjj Maurice Maurice Maurice... > notlickit is not a mineral, see > http://www.mindat.org/search.php?name=notlickite > but > ablickite http://www.mindat.org/min-4440.html is... > so you should not lick stones, but ablick them to analyse them hahaha > cheers! frank > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Maurice de Graaf" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 8:07 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals > > > > Licking rocks is a great analytical method. If the rock tastes salty it is > > probably halite, if the rock tastes bitter it is probably crandallite and > if > > you drop dead it is probably notlickite. > > > > As Axel said you should see things in perspective. If you saw and polish > > rocks it is better to wear a mask. And of course you should not eat (or > > lick) too many rocks on a single day. But licking an orpiment really won't > > kill you on the spot. If I go with your 0.3 gramms (I did not check the > > lethal dose of arsenicsulphide)that is about a quarter to half a teaspoon. > > You won't lick that of a normal rock. But it is defenitely not the > > healthiest thing to do. Licking arsenic trioxide (arsenolite)is allready > > more dangerous, because arsenic trioxide dissolves more readily. > > > > The 'it is natural so it must be good' attitude does not work with rocks, > > nor with much else. Many plants, animals and mushrooms are MUCH more > > poisonous than minerals. > > > > I'm off eating some peanuts with Halite, > > > > Maurice > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Anita Westlake > > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 7:25 PM > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals > > > > > > Thanks Axel. A couple of others: inhaling any airborne > > rock/mineral/chemical can't be good for you or other living things. > Whenever > > I carve talc, I do it outside (and not on a windy day!). When I use a > > coolant other than water for a rock saw I wear a mask. When I do the final > > polish on a leather wheel for a cabochon, I keep the wheel wet wet wet so > I > > don't inhale aluminum oxide or flying rock dust. I love rocks, but not > > enough to have them become a permanent part of my lungs. A friend of mine > > continues to "lick rocks" in the field. I'm just waiting > > for the day he picks up hardened rabbit poop. Anita -------Original > > Message------- From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Date: Tuesday, January > > 06, 2004 12:26:18 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: > > [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals Hi Anita, > > informative? Yes... complete?... Well, there may be some items we want to > > add... Beryllium will give you cancer so polishing emeralds or other beryl > > varieties may be a perilous occupation. Thorium and hafnium in zircons and > > chrysoberyls may radiate strong enough to kill the person who wears them > > regularly. I don't go near an ocean or sea since I learned that 37 grams > of > > NaCl is enough to kill a grown man (the text didn't say " grown person" > and > > neither was there any mention of women... I guess you are safe if you take > > it with a grain of salt... LOL). We all look a pollution with fear-filled > > eyes but ignore the killers that hide in the cupboard. For example: those > of > > use who like to drink a glass of wine with their daily meal should > consider > > throwing out their crystal and start using plain glasses. Crystal contains > > lead oxide (often more than 12%) which gives it a high refractive index. > The > > lead, however, is quite soluble in the acids and other chemicals that make > > wine so tasteful. It is no coincidence that senility and other (often > > undiagnosed) symptoms of lead poisoning were common among the upper class > in > > the past few centuries. If we need to show off, we'd better use gold > > goblets... or chalices cut from quartz (or some non-toxic wood). > > Furthermore: men with brass balls risk blue blood from the copper in the > > brass... Noblesse oblige! Anything that is alien to our body must be > > considered as harmful. I often wonder how many people got various cancers > > because of chemicals in their cosmetics??? Cheers Axel ----- Original > > Message ----- From: "Anita Westlake" To: > > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 2:40 PM > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals Dear > > Rockheads: I just got this off my meteorite list and thought I'd pass it > > along: Anita -------Original Message------- From: > Fredmeteorhall@aol.com > > Date: Monday, January 05, 2004 10:40:25 PM To: baalke@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov; > > meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic > > Minerals Fellow Meteorite Collectors, Before ingesting, or DRY polishing > > meteorites, fossils or minerals, keep this in mind: Mineral samples can be > > as dangerous as any chemical found in the chemistry laboratory. It only > > takes 0.3 grams of the mineral orpiment (Arsenic sulfide, can be found in > > Nevada, USA) to kill a 150 pound person. Around the same amount of > > arsenopyrite will be fatal. Realgar (another Arsenic sulfide) is similarly > > dangerous. Greenocite (cadmium sulfide) is very toxic if ingested, and > > inhalations can be as dangerous as ingestion. Poison fumes can be released > > by HEATING and by blowpipe lab testing. Minerals of antimony, nickel, > > barium, cadmium, lead, mercury, selenium and zinc are to be treated with > > care. Licking or tasting minerals in the field is as risky as tasting > > mushrooms in the field to see if they are poisonous. These include > antimony, > > arsenic, barium, boron, cadmium, cobalt, iron, lead, mercury, nickel, > > selenium and zinc. Harmful effects are most likely if the mineral is > soluble > > in water or stomach acid. Acute symptoms include dryness and burning of > the > > nasal cavities, gastroenteritis, delirium (note Dave Freeman!) coma and > > death. The borax minerals, colemanite, kernite and sodium borate (borax) > are > > assumed by many to be safe since they are used in laundry products. These > > cause several deaths a year (In the USA or worldwide? Article did not > > state ) as the borax is absorbed through cuts or through the skin. Three > > grams in the body of a child is sufficient to kill. (So don't try using a > > borax laundry soap for the kids bubble bath, unless you're tired of the > > little boogers!) Iron, especially ferrous sulfate (melamterite) can result > > in death from as little as 0.4 grams. (By the way guys, don't take your > > wife's "Made for Women Vitamins and Minerals" as men don't require near as > > much iron as women and the extra iron in the daily vitamin has been known > to > > cause health problems for men.) This is not a complete list, watch out > when > > working with unknown minerals. Have A Safe and Happy New Year, Fred Hall, > > member of the Colorado Meteorite Society (COMETS) and the Colorado Mineral > > Society. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html image/gif --- _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: > http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing > > List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds . > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/related > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > image/gif > > image/jpeg > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 6 11:20:20 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Tue Jan 6 11:20:20 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals In-Reply-To: <000d01c3d47a$17ede0b0$109d77d5@axel> Message-ID: <20040106191957.84D03EA8D7F@delivery.infowest.com> Hi Anita, >informative? Yes... complete?... Well, there may be some items we want to >add... >Beryllium will give you cancer so polishing emeralds or other beryl >varieties may be a perilous occupation. And, Axel, I would point out, all the copper minerals are hazardous. Margaret Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 6 11:36:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jan 6 11:36:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals References: Message-ID: <002701c3d48c$37daec30$109d77d5@axel> In order of appearance: Maurice, You should avoid old gold mines if you 're the licking kind.... Sitting down on the ground can already be lethal (by absorption through the skin) in old mine shafts where cyanide was used to extract gold... let alone lick anything! Tim, you wrote: >Axel, I agree, everything will kill you so we should all give up this hobby >and be afraid to even touch a rock. IMHO. (sarcasm intended) I'm currently applying for monkship in a Tibetan monastery... The idea is to master the art of levitation so I can avoid touching that ghastly, mineral riddled planet completely. Anita >A friend of mine continues to "lick rocks" in the field. I'm just waiting >for the day he picks up hardened rabbit poop He's not really a friend, is he? Anyway, I'm glad I'm on your good side... No telling what you wish upon your enemies... ROFL Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice de Graaf" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 8:07 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals > Licking rocks is a great analytical method. If the rock tastes salty it is > probably halite, if the rock tastes bitter it is probably crandallite and if > you drop dead it is probably notlickite. > > As Axel said you should see things in perspective. If you saw and polish > rocks it is better to wear a mask. And of course you should not eat (or > lick) too many rocks on a single day. But licking an orpiment really won't > kill you on the spot. If I go with your 0.3 gramms (I did not check the > lethal dose of arsenicsulphide)that is about a quarter to half a teaspoon. > You won't lick that of a normal rock. But it is defenitely not the > healthiest thing to do. Licking arsenic trioxide (arsenolite)is allready > more dangerous, because arsenic trioxide dissolves more readily. > > The 'it is natural so it must be good' attitude does not work with rocks, > nor with much else. Many plants, animals and mushrooms are MUCH more > poisonous than minerals. > > I'm off eating some peanuts with Halite, > > Maurice > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Anita Westlake > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 7:25 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals > > > Thanks Axel. A couple of others: inhaling any airborne > rock/mineral/chemical can't be good for you or other living things. Whenever > I carve talc, I do it outside (and not on a windy day!). When I use a > coolant other than water for a rock saw I wear a mask. When I do the final > polish on a leather wheel for a cabochon, I keep the wheel wet wet wet so I > don't inhale aluminum oxide or flying rock dust. I love rocks, but not > enough to have them become a permanent part of my lungs. A friend of mine > continues to "lick rocks" in the field. I'm just waiting > for the day he picks up hardened rabbit poop. Anita -------Original > Message------- From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Date: Tuesday, January > 06, 2004 12:26:18 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: > [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals Hi Anita, > informative? Yes... complete?... Well, there may be some items we want to > add... Beryllium will give you cancer so polishing emeralds or other beryl > varieties may be a perilous occupation. Thorium and hafnium in zircons and > chrysoberyls may radiate strong enough to kill the person who wears them > regularly. I don't go near an ocean or sea since I learned that 37 grams of > NaCl is enough to kill a grown man (the text didn't say " grown person" and > neither was there any mention of women... I guess you are safe if you take > it with a grain of salt... LOL). We all look a pollution with fear-filled > eyes but ignore the killers that hide in the cupboard. For example: those of > use who like to drink a glass of wine with their daily meal should consider > throwing out their crystal and start using plain glasses. Crystal contains > lead oxide (often more than 12%) which gives it a high refractive index. The > lead, however, is quite soluble in the acids and other chemicals that make > wine so tasteful. It is no coincidence that senility and other (often > undiagnosed) symptoms of lead poisoning were common among the upper class in > the past few centuries. If we need to show off, we'd better use gold > goblets... or chalices cut from quartz (or some non-toxic wood). > Furthermore: men with brass balls risk blue blood from the copper in the > brass... Noblesse oblige! Anything that is alien to our body must be > considered as harmful. I often wonder how many people got various cancers > because of chemicals in their cosmetics??? Cheers Axel ----- Original > Message ----- From: "Anita Westlake" To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 2:40 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals Dear > Rockheads: I just got this off my meteorite list and thought I'd pass it > along: Anita -------Original Message------- From: Fredmeteorhall@aol.com > Date: Monday, January 05, 2004 10:40:25 PM To: baalke@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov; > meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic > Minerals Fellow Meteorite Collectors, Before ingesting, or DRY polishing > meteorites, fossils or minerals, keep this in mind: Mineral samples can be > as dangerous as any chemical found in the chemistry laboratory. It only > takes 0.3 grams of the mineral orpiment (Arsenic sulfide, can be found in > Nevada, USA) to kill a 150 pound person. Around the same amount of > arsenopyrite will be fatal. Realgar (another Arsenic sulfide) is similarly > dangerous. Greenocite (cadmium sulfide) is very toxic if ingested, and > inhalations can be as dangerous as ingestion. Poison fumes can be released > by HEATING and by blowpipe lab testing. Minerals of antimony, nickel, > barium, cadmium, lead, mercury, selenium and zinc are to be treated with > care. Licking or tasting minerals in the field is as risky as tasting > mushrooms in the field to see if they are poisonous. These include antimony, > arsenic, barium, boron, cadmium, cobalt, iron, lead, mercury, nickel, > selenium and zinc. Harmful effects are most likely if the mineral is soluble > in water or stomach acid. Acute symptoms include dryness and burning of the > nasal cavities, gastroenteritis, delirium (note Dave Freeman!) coma and > death. The borax minerals, colemanite, kernite and sodium borate (borax) are > assumed by many to be safe since they are used in laundry products. These > cause several deaths a year (In the USA or worldwide? Article did not > state ) as the borax is absorbed through cuts or through the skin. Three > grams in the body of a child is sufficient to kill. (So don't try using a > borax laundry soap for the kids bubble bath, unless you're tired of the > little boogers!) Iron, especially ferrous sulfate (melamterite) can result > in death from as little as 0.4 grams. (By the way guys, don't take your > wife's "Made for Women Vitamins and Minerals" as men don't require near as > much iron as women and the extra iron in the daily vitamin has been known to > cause health problems for men.) This is not a complete list, watch out when > working with unknown minerals. Have A Safe and Happy New Year, Fred Hall, > member of the Colorado Meteorite Society (COMETS) and the Colorado Mineral > Society. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html image/gif --- _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing > List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds . > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/related > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > image/gif > image/jpeg > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 6 11:59:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Anita Westlake) Date: Tue Jan 6 11:59:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals References: <002701c3d48c$37daec30$109d77d5@axel> Message-ID: <3FFB136C.000035.01208@anitaw.library.emory.edu> Axel:=0D Who said you were on my good side? =0D Well, it's true. You're still my moon-rock-saving-hero-guy.=0D =0D Anita=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D Anita=0D =0D >A friend of mine continues to "lick rocks" in the field. I'm just waitin= g=0D >for the day he picks up hardened rabbit poop=0D =0D He's not really a friend, is he? Anyway, I'm glad I'm on your good side..= =2E=0D No telling what you wish upon your enemies... ROFL=0D =0D Axel=0D =0D ----- Original Message ----- =0D From: "Maurice de Graaf" =0D To: =0D Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 8:07 PM=0D Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals=0D =0D =0D > Licking rocks is a great analytical method. If the rock tastes salty it= is=0D > probably halite, if the rock tastes bitter it is probably crandallite a= nd=0D if=0D > you drop dead it is probably notlickite.=0D >=0D > As Axel said you should see things in perspective. If you saw and polis= h=0D > rocks it is better to wear a mask. And of course you should not eat (or= =0D > lick) too many rocks on a single day. But licking an orpiment really wo= n't=0D > kill you on the spot. If I go with your 0.3 gramms (I did not check the= =0D > lethal dose of arsenicsulphide)that is about a quarter to half a teaspo= on.=0D > You won't lick that of a normal rock. But it is defenitely not the=0D > healthiest thing to do. Licking arsenic trioxide (arsenolite)is allread= y=0D > more dangerous, because arsenic trioxide dissolves more readily.=0D >=0D > The 'it is natural so it must be good' attitude does not work with rock= s,=0D > nor with much else. Many plants, animals and mushrooms are MUCH more=0D > poisonous than minerals.=0D >=0D > I'm off eating some peanuts with Halite,=0D >=0D > Maurice=0D >=0D >=0D >=0D > -----Original Message-----=0D > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com=0D > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Anita Westlake=0D > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 7:25 PM=0D > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com=0D > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals=0D >=0D >=0D > Thanks Axel. A couple of others: inhaling any airborne=0D > rock/mineral/chemical can't be good for you or other living things.=0D Whenever=0D > I carve talc, I do it outside (and not on a windy day!). When I use a=0D > coolant other than water for a rock saw I wear a mask. When I do the fi= nal=0D > polish on a leather wheel for a cabochon, I keep the wheel wet wet wet = so=0D I=0D > don't inhale aluminum oxide or flying rock dust. I love rocks, but not=0D > enough to have them become a permanent part of my lungs. A friend of mi= ne=0D > continues to "lick rocks" in the field. I'm just waiting=0D > for the day he picks up hardened rabbit poop. Anita -------Original=0D > Message------- From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Date: Tuesday, Januar= y=0D > 06, 2004 12:26:18 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re:=0D > [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals Hi Anita,=0D > informative? Yes... complete?... Well, there may be some items we want = to=0D > add... Beryllium will give you cancer so polishing emeralds or other be= ryl=0D > varieties may be a perilous occupation. Thorium and hafnium in zircons = and=0D > chrysoberyls may radiate strong enough to kill the person who wears the= m=0D > regularly. I don't go near an ocean or sea since I learned that 37 gram= s=0D of=0D > NaCl is enough to kill a grown man (the text didn't say " grown person"= =0D and=0D > neither was there any mention of women... I guess you are safe if you t= ake=0D > it with a grain of salt... LOL). We all look a pollution with fear-fill= ed=0D > eyes but ignore the killers that hide in the cupboard. For example: tho= se=0D of=0D > use who like to drink a glass of wine with their daily meal should=0D consider=0D > throwing out their crystal and start using plain glasses. Crystal conta= ins=0D > lead oxide (often more than 12%) which gives it a high refractive index= =2E=0D The=0D > lead, however, is quite soluble in the acids and other chemicals that m= ake=0D > wine so tasteful. It is no coincidence that senility and other (often=0D > undiagnosed) symptoms of lead poisoning were common among the upper cla= ss=0D in=0D > the past few centuries. If we need to show off, we'd better use gold=0D > goblets... or chalices cut from quartz (or some non-toxic wood).=0D > Furthermore: men with brass balls risk blue blood from the copper in th= e=0D > brass... Noblesse oblige! Anything that is alien to our body must be=0D > considered as harmful. I often wonder how many people got various cance= rs=0D > because of chemicals in their cosmetics??? Cheers Axel ----- Original=0D > Message ----- From: "Anita Westlake" To:=0D > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 2:40 PM=0D > Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals Dear=0D > Rockheads: I just got this off my meteorite list and thought I'd pass i= t=0D > along: Anita -------Original Message------- From:=0D Fredmeteorhall@aol.com=0D > Date: Monday, January 05, 2004 10:40:25 PM To: baalke@zagami.jpl.nasa.g= ov;=0D > meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic= =0D > Minerals Fellow Meteorite Collectors, Before ingesting, or DRY polishin= g=0D > meteorites, fossils or minerals, keep this in mind: Mineral samples can= be=0D > as dangerous as any chemical found in the chemistry laboratory. It only= =0D > takes 0.3 grams of the mineral orpiment (Arsenic sulfide, can be found = in=0D > Nevada, USA) to kill a 150 pound person. Around the same amount of=0D > arsenopyrite will be fatal. Realgar (another Arsenic sulfide) is simila= rly=0D > dangerous. Greenocite (cadmium sulfide) is very toxic if ingested, and=0D > inhalations can be as dangerous as ingestion. Poison fumes can be relea= sed=0D > by HEATING and by blowpipe lab testing. Minerals of antimony, nickel,=0D > barium, cadmium, lead, mercury, selenium and zinc are to be treated wit= h=0D > care. Licking or tasting minerals in the field is as risky as tasting=0D > mushrooms in the field to see if they are poisonous. These include=0D antimony,=0D > arsenic, barium, boron, cadmium, cobalt, iron, lead, mercury, nickel,=0D > selenium and zinc. Harmful effects are most likely if the mineral is=0D soluble=0D > in water or stomach acid. Acute symptoms include dryness and burning of= =0D the=0D > nasal cavities, gastroenteritis, delirium (note Dave Freeman!) coma and= =0D > death. The borax minerals, colemanite, kernite and sodium borate (borax= )=0D are=0D > assumed by many to be safe since they are used in laundry products. The= se=0D > cause several deaths a year (In the USA or worldwide? Article did not=0D > state ) as the borax is absorbed through cuts or through the skin. Thre= e=0D > grams in the body of a child is sufficient to kill. (So don't try using= a=0D > borax laundry soap for the kids bubble bath, unless you're tired of the= =0D > little boogers!) Iron, especially ferrous sulfate (melamterite) can res= ult=0D > in death from as little as 0.4 grams. (By the way guys, don't take your= =0D > wife's "Made for Women Vitamins and Minerals" as men don't require near= as=0D > much iron as women and the extra iron in the daily vitamin has been kno= wn=0D to=0D > cause health problems for men.) This is not a complete list, watch out=0D when=0D > working with unknown minerals. Have A Safe and Happy New Year, Fred Hal= l,=0D > member of the Colorado Meteorite Society (COMETS) and the Colorado Mine= ral=0D > Society. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---=0D > multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept)=0D > text/html image/gif --- _______________________________________________= =0D > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW:=0D http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds=0D > Subscription Services:=0D http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds=0D > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mail= ing=0D > List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services= :=0D > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds .=0D >=0D > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---=0D > multipart/related=0D > multipart/alternative=0D > text/plain (text body -- kept)=0D > text/html=0D > image/gif=0D > image/jpeg=0D > ---=0D > _______________________________________________=0D > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List=0D > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds=0D > Subscription Services:=0D > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds=0D >=0D >=0D > _______________________________________________=0D > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List=0D > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds=0D > Subscription Services:=0D > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds=0D >=0D >=0D >=0D =0D =0D _______________________________________________=0D Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List=0D WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds=0D Subscription Services:=0D http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds=0D =2E=20 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/gif image/gif image/jpeg --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 6 12:43:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Frank de Wit) Date: Tue Jan 6 12:43:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals References: <002701c3d48c$37daec30$109d77d5@axel> Message-ID: <000901c3d495$95a46360$8d7ba8c0@cm333814lt> talking about shafts... today I received my mining calendar 2004 ('Bergbaukalender 2004') containing really beautiful pictures of mines in the Sachsen/Germany area see: http://www.spezialbild.de/kalender/frame_04.htm I can't wait to go underground there ! Cheers! Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 8:35 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals > In order of appearance: > > Maurice, > > You should avoid old gold mines if you 're the licking kind.... > Sitting down on the ground can already be lethal (by absorption through the > skin) in old mine shafts where cyanide was used to extract gold... let alone > lick anything! > > Tim, > > you wrote: > >Axel, I agree, everything will kill you so we should all give up this hobby > >and be afraid to even touch a rock. IMHO. (sarcasm intended) > > I'm currently applying for monkship in a Tibetan monastery... The idea is to > master the art of levitation so I can avoid touching that ghastly, mineral > riddled planet completely. > > Anita > > >A friend of mine continues to "lick rocks" in the field. I'm just waiting > >for the day he picks up hardened rabbit poop > > He's not really a friend, is he? Anyway, I'm glad I'm on your good side... > No telling what you wish upon your enemies... ROFL > > Axel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Maurice de Graaf" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 8:07 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals > > > > Licking rocks is a great analytical method. If the rock tastes salty it is > > probably halite, if the rock tastes bitter it is probably crandallite and > if > > you drop dead it is probably notlickite. > > > > As Axel said you should see things in perspective. If you saw and polish > > rocks it is better to wear a mask. And of course you should not eat (or > > lick) too many rocks on a single day. But licking an orpiment really won't > > kill you on the spot. If I go with your 0.3 gramms (I did not check the > > lethal dose of arsenicsulphide)that is about a quarter to half a teaspoon. > > You won't lick that of a normal rock. But it is defenitely not the > > healthiest thing to do. Licking arsenic trioxide (arsenolite)is allready > > more dangerous, because arsenic trioxide dissolves more readily. > > > > The 'it is natural so it must be good' attitude does not work with rocks, > > nor with much else. Many plants, animals and mushrooms are MUCH more > > poisonous than minerals. > > > > I'm off eating some peanuts with Halite, > > > > Maurice > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Anita Westlake > > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 7:25 PM > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals > > > > > > Thanks Axel. A couple of others: inhaling any airborne > > rock/mineral/chemical can't be good for you or other living things. > Whenever > > I carve talc, I do it outside (and not on a windy day!). When I use a > > coolant other than water for a rock saw I wear a mask. When I do the final > > polish on a leather wheel for a cabochon, I keep the wheel wet wet wet so > I > > don't inhale aluminum oxide or flying rock dust. I love rocks, but not > > enough to have them become a permanent part of my lungs. A friend of mine > > continues to "lick rocks" in the field. I'm just waiting > > for the day he picks up hardened rabbit poop. Anita -------Original > > Message------- From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Date: Tuesday, January > > 06, 2004 12:26:18 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: > > [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals Hi Anita, > > informative? Yes... complete?... Well, there may be some items we want to > > add... Beryllium will give you cancer so polishing emeralds or other beryl > > varieties may be a perilous occupation. Thorium and hafnium in zircons and > > chrysoberyls may radiate strong enough to kill the person who wears them > > regularly. I don't go near an ocean or sea since I learned that 37 grams > of > > NaCl is enough to kill a grown man (the text didn't say " grown person" > and > > neither was there any mention of women... I guess you are safe if you take > > it with a grain of salt... LOL). We all look a pollution with fear-filled > > eyes but ignore the killers that hide in the cupboard. For example: those > of > > use who like to drink a glass of wine with their daily meal should > consider > > throwing out their crystal and start using plain glasses. Crystal contains > > lead oxide (often more than 12%) which gives it a high refractive index. > The > > lead, however, is quite soluble in the acids and other chemicals that make > > wine so tasteful. It is no coincidence that senility and other (often > > undiagnosed) symptoms of lead poisoning were common among the upper class > in > > the past few centuries. If we need to show off, we'd better use gold > > goblets... or chalices cut from quartz (or some non-toxic wood). > > Furthermore: men with brass balls risk blue blood from the copper in the > > brass... Noblesse oblige! Anything that is alien to our body must be > > considered as harmful. I often wonder how many people got various cancers > > because of chemicals in their cosmetics??? Cheers Axel ----- Original > > Message ----- From: "Anita Westlake" To: > > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 2:40 PM > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals Dear > > Rockheads: I just got this off my meteorite list and thought I'd pass it > > along: Anita -------Original Message------- From: > Fredmeteorhall@aol.com > > Date: Monday, January 05, 2004 10:40:25 PM To: baalke@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov; > > meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic > > Minerals Fellow Meteorite Collectors, Before ingesting, or DRY polishing > > meteorites, fossils or minerals, keep this in mind: Mineral samples can be > > as dangerous as any chemical found in the chemistry laboratory. It only > > takes 0.3 grams of the mineral orpiment (Arsenic sulfide, can be found in > > Nevada, USA) to kill a 150 pound person. Around the same amount of > > arsenopyrite will be fatal. Realgar (another Arsenic sulfide) is similarly > > dangerous. Greenocite (cadmium sulfide) is very toxic if ingested, and > > inhalations can be as dangerous as ingestion. Poison fumes can be released > > by HEATING and by blowpipe lab testing. Minerals of antimony, nickel, > > barium, cadmium, lead, mercury, selenium and zinc are to be treated with > > care. Licking or tasting minerals in the field is as risky as tasting > > mushrooms in the field to see if they are poisonous. These include > antimony, > > arsenic, barium, boron, cadmium, cobalt, iron, lead, mercury, nickel, > > selenium and zinc. Harmful effects are most likely if the mineral is > soluble > > in water or stomach acid. Acute symptoms include dryness and burning of > the > > nasal cavities, gastroenteritis, delirium (note Dave Freeman!) coma and > > death. The borax minerals, colemanite, kernite and sodium borate (borax) > are > > assumed by many to be safe since they are used in laundry products. These > > cause several deaths a year (In the USA or worldwide? Article did not > > state ) as the borax is absorbed through cuts or through the skin. Three > > grams in the body of a child is sufficient to kill. (So don't try using a > > borax laundry soap for the kids bubble bath, unless you're tired of the > > little boogers!) Iron, especially ferrous sulfate (melamterite) can result > > in death from as little as 0.4 grams. (By the way guys, don't take your > > wife's "Made for Women Vitamins and Minerals" as men don't require near as > > much iron as women and the extra iron in the daily vitamin has been known > to > > cause health problems for men.) This is not a complete list, watch out > when > > working with unknown minerals. Have A Safe and Happy New Year, Fred Hall, > > member of the Colorado Meteorite Society (COMETS) and the Colorado Mineral > > Society. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html image/gif --- _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: > http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing > > List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds . > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/related > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > image/gif > > image/jpeg > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 6 14:00:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Jan 6 14:00:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals In-Reply-To: <3FFABACE.000015.01208@anitaw.library.emory.edu> Message-ID: I don't know where these numbers were dredged up but they seem to be incorrect. Ferrous Sulfate is listed as "Low Toxicity" and the LD50 for rats is .319 gm/kg or about 24 grams for an adult human, assuming the value scales to humans. That's quite a bit of Ferrous Sulfate to choke down. Borax has a Oral LDLO-Man of .709 gm/Kg or over 50 grams for an adult human. Of course heavy metal salts can be hazardous but whoever wrote this balderdash didn't know what he was talking about. Bryan Samuel Adams advised, "Let us contemplate our forefathers, and posterity, and resolve to maintain the rights bequeathed to us from the former, for the sake of the latter." > > Dear Rockheads: I just got this off my meteorite list and > thought I'd pass it along: Anita -------Original > Message------- From: Fredmeteorhall@aol.com Date: Monday, > January 05, 2004 10:40:25 PM To: baalke@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov; > meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: > Toxic Minerals Fellow Meteorite Collectors, Before > ingesting, or DRY polishing meteorites, fossils or minerals, > keep this in mind: Mineral samples can be as dangerous as > any chemical found in the > chemistry laboratory. It only takes 0.3 grams of the mineral orpiment > (Arsenic sulfide, can be found in Nevada, USA) to kill a 150 > pound person. > Around the same amount of arsenopyrite will be fatal. Realgar (another > Arsenic sulfide) is similarly dangerous. Greenocite (cadmium sulfide) is > very toxic if ingested, and inhalations can be as dangerous as > ingestion. Poison fumes can be released by HEATING and by > blowpipe lab testing. > Minerals of antimony, nickel, barium, cadmium, lead, mercury, selenium and > zinc are to be treated with care. Licking or tasting > minerals in the field is as risky as tasting > mushrooms in the field to see if they are poisonous. These > include antimony, > arsenic, barium, boron, cadmium, cobalt, iron, lead, mercury, nickel, > selenium and zinc. Harmful effects are most likely if the mineral > is soluble > in water or stomach acid. Acute symptoms include dryness and > burning of the > nasal cavities, gastroenteritis, delirium (note Dave Freeman!) coma and > death. The borax minerals, colemanite, kernite and sodium > borate (borax) are > assumed by many to be safe since they are used in laundry products. These > cause several deaths a year (In the USA or worldwide? Article did > not state > ) as the borax is absorbed through cuts or through the skin. > Three grams in > the body of a child is sufficient to kill. (So don't try using a borax > laundry soap for the kids bubble bath, unless you're tired of the little > boogers!) Iron, especially ferrous sulfate (melamterite) can > result in death from > as little as 0.4 grams. (By the way guys, don't take your wife's "Made for > Women Vitamins and Minerals" as men don't require near as much > iron as women > and the extra iron in the daily vitamin has been known to cause health > problems for men.) This is not a complete list, watch out > when working with unknown > minerals. Have A Safe and Happy New Year, Fred Hall, member of > the Colorado Meteorite > Society (COMETS) and the Colorado Mineral Society. > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 6 14:09:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jan 6 14:09:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals References: <002701c3d48c$37daec30$109d77d5@axel> <3FFB136C.000035.01208@anitaw.library.emory.edu> Message-ID: <000a01c3d4a1$99837be0$109d77d5@axel> Hmmm... I may have misused the expression "to be on someone's good side"... I got that from some TV-show I think... (The District????) Oh well, I'll settle for "my moon-rock-saving-hero-guy". LOL Keep smiling Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anita Westlake" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 8:58 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals Axel: Who said you were on my good side? Well, it's true. You're still my moon-rock-saving-hero-guy. Anita -------Original Message------- Anita >A friend of mine continues to "lick rocks" in the field. I'm just waiting >for the day he picks up hardened rabbit poop He's not really a friend, is he? Anyway, I'm glad I'm on your good side... No telling what you wish upon your enemies... ROFL Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice de Graaf" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 8:07 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals > Licking rocks is a great analytical method. If the rock tastes salty it is > probably halite, if the rock tastes bitter it is probably crandallite and if > you drop dead it is probably notlickite. > > As Axel said you should see things in perspective. If you saw and polish > rocks it is better to wear a mask. And of course you should not eat (or > lick) too many rocks on a single day. But licking an orpiment really won't > kill you on the spot. If I go with your 0.3 gramms (I did not check the > lethal dose of arsenicsulphide)that is about a quarter to half a teaspoon. > You won't lick that of a normal rock. But it is defenitely not the > healthiest thing to do. Licking arsenic trioxide (arsenolite)is allready > more dangerous, because arsenic trioxide dissolves more readily. > > The 'it is natural so it must be good' attitude does not work with rocks, > nor with much else. Many plants, animals and mushrooms are MUCH more > poisonous than minerals. > > I'm off eating some peanuts with Halite, > > Maurice > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Anita Westlake > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 7:25 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals > > > Thanks Axel. A couple of others: inhaling any airborne > rock/mineral/chemical can't be good for you or other living things. Whenever > I carve talc, I do it outside (and not on a windy day!). When I use a > coolant other than water for a rock saw I wear a mask. When I do the final > polish on a leather wheel for a cabochon, I keep the wheel wet wet wet so I > don't inhale aluminum oxide or flying rock dust. I love rocks, but not > enough to have them become a permanent part of my lungs. A friend of mine > continues to "lick rocks" in the field. I'm just waiting > for the day he picks up hardened rabbit poop. Anita -------Original > Message------- From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Date: Tuesday, January > 06, 2004 12:26:18 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: > [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals Hi Anita, > informative? Yes... complete?... Well, there may be some items we want to > add... Beryllium will give you cancer so polishing emeralds or other beryl > varieties may be a perilous occupation. Thorium and hafnium in zircons and > chrysoberyls may radiate strong enough to kill the person who wears them > regularly. I don't go near an ocean or sea since I learned that 37 grams of > NaCl is enough to kill a grown man (the text didn't say " grown person" and > neither was there any mention of women... I guess you are safe if you take > it with a grain of salt... LOL). We all look a pollution with fear-filled > eyes but ignore the killers that hide in the cupboard. For example: those of > use who like to drink a glass of wine with their daily meal should consider > throwing out their crystal and start using plain glasses. Crystal contains > lead oxide (often more than 12%) which gives it a high refractive index. The > lead, however, is quite soluble in the acids and other chemicals that make > wine so tasteful. It is no coincidence that senility and other (often > undiagnosed) symptoms of lead poisoning were common among the upper class in > the past few centuries. If we need to show off, we'd better use gold > goblets... or chalices cut from quartz (or some non-toxic wood). > Furthermore: men with brass balls risk blue blood from the copper in the > brass... Noblesse oblige! Anything that is alien to our body must be > considered as harmful. I often wonder how many people got various cancers > because of chemicals in their cosmetics??? Cheers Axel ----- Original > Message ----- From: "Anita Westlake" To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 2:40 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals Dear > Rockheads: I just got this off my meteorite list and thought I'd pass it > along: Anita -------Original Message------- From: Fredmeteorhall@aol.com > Date: Monday, January 05, 2004 10:40:25 PM To: baalke@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov; > meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic > Minerals Fellow Meteorite Collectors, Before ingesting, or DRY polishing > meteorites, fossils or minerals, keep this in mind: Mineral samples can be > as dangerous as any chemical found in the chemistry laboratory. It only > takes 0.3 grams of the mineral orpiment (Arsenic sulfide, can be found in > Nevada, USA) to kill a 150 pound person. Around the same amount of > arsenopyrite will be fatal. Realgar (another Arsenic sulfide) is similarly > dangerous. Greenocite (cadmium sulfide) is very toxic if ingested, and > inhalations can be as dangerous as ingestion. Poison fumes can be released > by HEATING and by blowpipe lab testing. Minerals of antimony, nickel, > barium, cadmium, lead, mercury, selenium and zinc are to be treated with > care. Licking or tasting minerals in the field is as risky as tasting > mushrooms in the field to see if they are poisonous. These include antimony, > arsenic, barium, boron, cadmium, cobalt, iron, lead, mercury, nickel, > selenium and zinc. Harmful effects are most likely if the mineral is soluble > in water or stomach acid. Acute symptoms include dryness and burning of the > nasal cavities, gastroenteritis, delirium (note Dave Freeman!) coma and > death. The borax minerals, colemanite, kernite and sodium borate (borax) are > assumed by many to be safe since they are used in laundry products. These > cause several deaths a year (In the USA or worldwide? Article did not > state ) as the borax is absorbed through cuts or through the skin. Three > grams in the body of a child is sufficient to kill. (So don't try using a > borax laundry soap for the kids bubble bath, unless you're tired of the > little boogers!) Iron, especially ferrous sulfate (melamterite) can result > in death from as little as 0.4 grams. (By the way guys, don't take your > wife's "Made for Women Vitamins and Minerals" as men don't require near as > much iron as women and the extra iron in the daily vitamin has been known to > cause health problems for men.) This is not a complete list, watch out when > working with unknown minerals. Have A Safe and Happy New Year, Fred Hall, > member of the Colorado Meteorite Society (COMETS) and the Colorado Mineral > Society. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html image/gif --- _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing > List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds . > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/related > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > image/gif > image/jpeg > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds . --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/gif image/gif image/jpeg --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 6 14:20:03 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Jan 6 14:20:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hi and the first paper of the New Year In-Reply-To: <3FF9B4E4.4060101@tenforward.com> References: <3FF4EDD4.247F@Tomaszewski.net> <3FF4D69D.1050906@tenforward.com> <3FF4EDD4.247F@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040106123728.04463ec0@mail.aloha.net> Hi John, I was too busy with the holidays to read your paper until today. I too am not into collecting fossils, but your story was almost enough to get me started! Very well done. As I've said before regarding your tales, I like the way you paint a picture of the surroundings, moods, etc...not just purely "rock stuff" (or in this case, fossil stuff). Aloha, Kitty At 09:03 AM 1/5/2004, you wrote: >Thanks Kreigh, as the only one who wrote, I really appreciate your kind >words. All the very best, > >John > >Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > >>John, >> >>Thank you for sharing. It was a very good read and it let me learn from >>a side of the hobby I don't normally follow (i.e., collecting fossils). >> >>Kreigh >> >> >> >>John and Gloria Cornish wrote: >> >> >>>Hi Everyone, >>> >>>I hope you all had terrific Holidays! Below you'll find the newest paper >>>of 2004, I hope you enjoy! All the very best everyone! Sincerely, >>> >>>John >>> >>>P.S. Look for me in Tucson at the Inn Suites this year, room #169. >>>I'll be sharing the room with Scott Kleine of Great Basin Minerals >>>(please consider checking out Scott's website at greatbasinminerals.com >>>We did the 2003 Denver Show together and you can see our room and read >>>the Show Report posted on Scott's website by clicking on... >>> >>>http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Mineral%20Show%20Pix/Denver%202003%20Show%20Pix%20Page.htm >>> >>>I hope your all able to stop by and say hello! Take care! JC >>> >>>Jump In, The Waters Fine; Eurypterid Collecting In New York >>> >>>By John Cornish >>>j&gcornish@tenforward.com >>> >>>My flight was leaving in the morning, I'd be traveling from Port >>>Angeles, Washington to the small village of Ilion, in southern Herkimer >>>County, New York and from there, I'd be traveling back in time to an >>>ancient, exotic world existing over 400 million years ago. If I >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 6 15:14:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (jb) Date: Tue Jan 6 15:14:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals Message-ID: <3FFB3742.4080406@hal-pc.org> Kudos to J B Kramer for pointing out that things are not always as they are said. Ferrous Sulfate is used in ordinary iron pills available over the counter. They are used in the treatment of anemia. If one tries to eat too much of it, the digestive tract can get very irritated, but absorption into the blood is limited to more or less what is needed; massive doses can be toxic but are probably not fatal. I would fear more the sodium in kernite and borax or any of the carbonates than I would the boron. The borate radical is very stable and would mostly just pass through the body rather than be absorbed. As for the arsenates, what other ocherous earthy common mineral is out there other than ochre itself and perhaps sulfur? When in Gold Hill, Utah, don't fool around with the yellows and oranges; elsewhere it's probably iron oxide which children and others have been known to ingest in prodigious quantities while playing...so far to no known mass toxic effect. The point is that, yes, any substance can be abused and injure us. But common sense ( or is it the not-so-common kind?) should inform us in how we treat anything. We. that is all of life, have been living with a tremendous background radiation for as long as we have been around but we have adopted to it. I am sure that the background has become considerably hotter since the advent of The Atomic Age, but babies are still born normally for the most part, and continue to grow and live to 80 and beyond. Yeah the incidence of cancer and other chronic diseases is up, but I suspect that is more a function of improper nutrition than of the widespread pollutions of all sorts that we all adapt to by necessity. Life is a hazardous occupation for any soul. Anyway it is well to keep in mind safety when working materials, especially around the shop. Jade is fine except when it is fibrous enough to become asbestos-like. Even then it's ok until it is ground into fine dust. So pick up your boulders where you may with careless abandon, but be careful when you turn them into powder. (Who on earth actually tastes a mineral to find out what it may be?? Hmmm...) john From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 6 15:40:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Jan 6 15:40:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals In-Reply-To: <3FFB3742.4080406@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: Well as for who actually tastes minerals, or chemicals: I recall that in my freshman Chem class the prof mentioned that it was once common for jars of beryllium sulfate to be passed around such classes so that the students could taste the beryllium salt. I believe it was known as 'sugar of beryllium' and it has a very sweet taste. The very thought of this now would cause the average toxicologist to suffer fainting spells at the least ;-> But there were no mass die-offs among the students. Fox News had an article on mercury toxicity last week: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,106703,00.html and Arsenic the week before: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,106135,00.html both of which expose exaggerated concerns over metal toxicity. You should always keep in mind that people are making money over these wild and ill thought out claims of environmental hazards. The 'scientists' live on grants and wild-eyed claims of danger draws a lot more grant money than the boring truth does. Bryan Samuel Adams advised, "Let us contemplate our forefathers, and posterity, and resolve to maintain the rights bequeathed to us from the former, for the sake of the latter." > > Kudos to J B Kramer for pointing out that things are not always as they > are said. Ferrous Sulfate is used in ordinary iron pills available over > the counter. They are used in the treatment of anemia. If one tries to > eat too much of it, the digestive tract can get very irritated, but > absorption into the blood is limited to more or less what is needed; > massive doses can be toxic but are probably not fatal. > > I would fear more the sodium in kernite and borax or any of the > carbonates than I would the boron. The borate radical is very stable > and would mostly just pass through the body rather than be absorbed. As > for the arsenates, what other ocherous earthy common mineral is out > there other than ochre itself and perhaps sulfur? When in Gold Hill, > Utah, don't fool around with the yellows and oranges; elsewhere it's > probably iron oxide which children and others have been known to ingest > in prodigious quantities while playing...so far to no known mass toxic > effect. > > The point is that, yes, any substance can be abused and injure us. But > common sense ( or is it the not-so-common kind?) should inform us in how > we treat anything. We. that is all of life, have been living with a > tremendous background radiation for as long as we have been around but > we have adopted to it. I am sure that the background has become > considerably hotter since the advent of The Atomic Age, but babies are > still born normally for the most part, and continue to grow and live to > 80 and beyond. Yeah the incidence of cancer and other chronic diseases > is up, but I suspect that is more a function of improper nutrition than > of the widespread pollutions of all sorts that we all adapt to by > necessity. Life is a hazardous occupation for any soul. > > Anyway it is well to keep in mind safety when working materials, > especially around the shop. Jade is fine except when it is fibrous > enough to become asbestos-like. Even then it's ok until it is ground > into fine dust. So pick up your boulders where you may with careless > abandon, but be careful when you turn them into powder. > > (Who on earth actually tastes a mineral to find out what it may be?? > Hmmm...) > > john > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 6 15:58:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Tue Jan 6 15:58:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK this thread is getting weirder by each email. The taste of toxic stuff.... I never tasted beryllium salt and frankly I'm not really waiting in line for a bite. I do know that lead does taste very sweet. No not by my own experience :-) I had several toxicology classes, one of them was clinical toxicology. A number of doctors from the academic hospital told story after story of Agatha Christie like poisonings by jealous wives etc. One of the most frequent intoxications of children is lead intoxication. Small kids tend to nibble at the lead chord under in some curtains, or drink lead based paint because of the sweetness. As for 'the old days'. The solvent benzene is now practically forbidden in laboratories because of it's carcinogene effects. It was widely used a couple of decades ago. Chloroform is still widely used, but will probably be banned to for similar reasons. In the medieval times one of the remedies (I don't know for what, living??) was drinking metallic mercury. That can be done safely because it won't be taken up. It is only dangerous when inhaled. So be sure to swallow every little drop! Cheers! Maurice -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 12:39 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals Well as for who actually tastes minerals, or chemicals: I recall that in my freshman Chem class the prof mentioned that it was once common for jars of beryllium sulfate to be passed around such classes so that the students could taste the beryllium salt. I believe it was known as 'sugar of beryllium' and it has a very sweet taste. The very thought of this now would cause the average toxicologist to suffer fainting spells at the least ;-> But there were no mass die-offs among the students. Fox News had an article on mercury toxicity last week: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,106703,00.html and Arsenic the week before: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,106135,00.html both of which expose exaggerated concerns over metal toxicity. You should always keep in mind that people are making money over these wild and ill thought out claims of environmental hazards. The 'scientists' live on grants and wild-eyed claims of danger draws a lot more grant money than the boring truth does. Bryan Samuel Adams advised, "Let us contemplate our forefathers, and posterity, and resolve to maintain the rights bequeathed to us from the former, for the sake of the latter." > > Kudos to J B Kramer for pointing out that things are not always as they > are said. Ferrous Sulfate is used in ordinary iron pills available over > the counter. They are used in the treatment of anemia. If one tries to > eat too much of it, the digestive tract can get very irritated, but > absorption into the blood is limited to more or less what is needed; > massive doses can be toxic but are probably not fatal. > > I would fear more the sodium in kernite and borax or any of the > carbonates than I would the boron. The borate radical is very stable > and would mostly just pass through the body rather than be absorbed. As > for the arsenates, what other ocherous earthy common mineral is out > there other than ochre itself and perhaps sulfur? When in Gold Hill, > Utah, don't fool around with the yellows and oranges; elsewhere it's > probably iron oxide which children and others have been known to ingest > in prodigious quantities while playing...so far to no known mass toxic > effect. > > The point is that, yes, any substance can be abused and injure us. But > common sense ( or is it the not-so-common kind?) should inform us in how > we treat anything. We. that is all of life, have been living with a > tremendous background radiation for as long as we have been around but > we have adopted to it. I am sure that the background has become > considerably hotter since the advent of The Atomic Age, but babies are > still born normally for the most part, and continue to grow and live to > 80 and beyond. Yeah the incidence of cancer and other chronic diseases > is up, but I suspect that is more a function of improper nutrition than > of the widespread pollutions of all sorts that we all adapt to by > necessity. Life is a hazardous occupation for any soul. > > Anyway it is well to keep in mind safety when working materials, > especially around the shop. Jade is fine except when it is fibrous > enough to become asbestos-like. Even then it's ok until it is ground > into fine dust. So pick up your boulders where you may with careless > abandon, but be careful when you turn them into powder. > > (Who on earth actually tastes a mineral to find out what it may be?? > Hmmm...) > > john > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 6 16:13:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Jan 6 16:13:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I wasn't advocating that people try eating beryllium salts or lead for that matter. I was just pointing out that the alarmism prevalent today may be unjustified. We are products of evolution and our species can deal with toxic materials in small amounts. The attitude that _ANY_ amount of toxic materials is harmful isn't justified by the known science. Bryan Samuel Adams advised, "Let us contemplate our forefathers, and posterity, and resolve to maintain the rights bequeathed to us from the former, for the sake of the latter." > > OK this thread is getting weirder by each email. The taste of toxic > stuff.... I never tasted beryllium salt and frankly I'm not really waiting > in line for a bite. I do know that lead does taste very sweet. No > not by my > own experience :-) I had several toxicology classes, one of them was > clinical toxicology. A number of doctors from the academic hospital told > story after story of Agatha Christie like poisonings by jealous wives etc. > One of the most frequent intoxications of children is lead intoxication. > Small kids tend to nibble at the lead chord under in some > curtains, or drink > lead based paint because of the sweetness. > > As for 'the old days'. The solvent benzene is now practically forbidden in > laboratories because of it's carcinogene effects. It was widely used a > couple of decades ago. Chloroform is still widely used, but will > probably be > banned to for similar reasons. In the medieval times one of the > remedies (I > don't know for what, living??) was drinking metallic mercury. That can be > done safely because it won't be taken up. It is only dangerous > when inhaled. > So be sure to swallow every little drop! > > Cheers! > Maurice > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 12:39 AM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals > > > Well as for who actually tastes minerals, or chemicals: I recall > that in my > freshman Chem class the prof mentioned that it was once common for jars of > beryllium sulfate to be passed around such classes so that the students > could taste the beryllium salt. I believe it was known as 'sugar of > beryllium' and it has a very sweet taste. The very thought of > this now would > cause the average toxicologist to suffer fainting spells at the least ;-> > But there were no mass die-offs among the students. > > Fox News had an article on mercury toxicity last week: > > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,106703,00.html > > and Arsenic the week before: > > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,106135,00.html > > both of which expose exaggerated concerns over metal toxicity. You should > always keep in mind that people are making money over these wild and ill > thought out claims of environmental hazards. The 'scientists' > live on grants > and wild-eyed claims of danger draws a lot more grant money than > the boring > truth does. > > Bryan > > Samuel Adams advised, "Let us contemplate our forefathers, and posterity, > and resolve to maintain the rights bequeathed to us from the > former, for the > sake of the latter." > > > > > > Kudos to J B Kramer for pointing out that things are not always as they > > are said. Ferrous Sulfate is used in ordinary iron pills available over > > the counter. They are used in the treatment of anemia. If one tries to > > eat too much of it, the digestive tract can get very irritated, but > > absorption into the blood is limited to more or less what is needed; > > massive doses can be toxic but are probably not fatal. > > > > I would fear more the sodium in kernite and borax or any of the > > carbonates than I would the boron. The borate radical is very stable > > and would mostly just pass through the body rather than be absorbed. As > > for the arsenates, what other ocherous earthy common mineral is out > > there other than ochre itself and perhaps sulfur? When in Gold Hill, > > Utah, don't fool around with the yellows and oranges; elsewhere it's > > probably iron oxide which children and others have been known to ingest > > in prodigious quantities while playing...so far to no known mass toxic > > effect. > > > > The point is that, yes, any substance can be abused and injure us. But > > common sense ( or is it the not-so-common kind?) should inform us in how > > we treat anything. We. that is all of life, have been living with a > > tremendous background radiation for as long as we have been around but > > we have adopted to it. I am sure that the background has become > > considerably hotter since the advent of The Atomic Age, but babies are > > still born normally for the most part, and continue to grow and live to > > 80 and beyond. Yeah the incidence of cancer and other chronic diseases > > is up, but I suspect that is more a function of improper nutrition than > > of the widespread pollutions of all sorts that we all adapt to by > > necessity. Life is a hazardous occupation for any soul. > > > > Anyway it is well to keep in mind safety when working materials, > > especially around the shop. Jade is fine except when it is fibrous > > enough to become asbestos-like. Even then it's ok until it is ground > > into fine dust. So pick up your boulders where you may with careless > > abandon, but be careful when you turn them into powder. > > > > (Who on earth actually tastes a mineral to find out what it may be?? > > Hmmm...) > > > > john > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 6 17:10:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Tue Jan 6 17:10:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hi and the first paper of the New Year In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040106123728.04463ec0@mail.aloha.net> References: <3FF4EDD4.247F@Tomaszewski.net> <3FF4D69D.1050906@tenforward.com> <3FF4EDD4.247F@Tomaszewski.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20040106123728.04463ec0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <3FFB5C68.4080809@tenforward.com> Hi Kitty, Thanks much for the comments! Good or bad, its always nice to hear how things read. Watch out you don't drift over to the dark side of paleontology, with the right treasures, it is very much an intoxicating world. I knew a guy on the Big Island who collected extinct land snails and on Oahu, at the Laie Quarry, near the calcite caves, fossil shells were found in the limestone. Truth be told though, I've none of these fossils in the collection, what I do prize from the islands are the calcite crystals and stalactites (and the movie made of their discovery and collection). For those who may be interested, these caves where found in an operating (cement?) quarry. As I understand it, on the neighboring property, owned by the University of Hawaii, were found other calcite caves, these had been used as ancient burial chambers for tribal members of high standing (royalty?). The local Rock and Mineral Society, Hui Pohaku O'Hawaii, was allowed to excavate the crystals from several caves in the quarry in 1998, this is where my specimens originated. All the very best, John Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > Hi John, > > I was too busy with the holidays to read your paper until today. I > too am not into collecting fossils, but your story was almost enough > to get me started! Very well done. As I've said before regarding > your tales, I like the way you paint a picture of the surroundings, > moods, etc...not just purely "rock stuff" (or in this case, fossil > stuff). > > Aloha, Kitty > > > At 09:03 AM 1/5/2004, you wrote: > >> Thanks Kreigh, as the only one who wrote, I really appreciate your >> kind words. All the very best, >> >> John >> >> Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >> >>> John, >>> >>> Thank you for sharing. It was a very good read and it let me learn from >>> a side of the hobby I don't normally follow (i.e., collecting fossils). >>> >>> Kreigh >>> >>> >>> >>> John and Gloria Cornish wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Hi Everyone, >>>> >>>> I hope you all had terrific Holidays! Below you'll find the newest >>>> paper >>>> of 2004, I hope you enjoy! All the very best everyone! Sincerely, >>>> >>>> John >>>> >>>> P.S. Look for me in Tucson at the Inn Suites this year, room #169. >>>> I'll be sharing the room with Scott Kleine of Great Basin Minerals >>>> (please consider checking out Scott's website at >>>> greatbasinminerals.com >>>> We did the 2003 Denver Show together and you can see our room and read >>>> the Show Report posted on Scott's website by clicking on... >>>> >>>> http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Mineral%20Show%20Pix/Denver%202003%20Show%20Pix%20Page.htm >>>> >>>> >>>> I hope your all able to stop by and say hello! Take care! JC >>>> >>>> Jump In, The Waters Fine; Eurypterid Collecting In New York >>>> >>>> By John Cornish >>>> j&gcornish@tenforward.com >>>> >>>> My flight was leaving in the morning, I'd be traveling from Port >>>> Angeles, Washington to the small village of Ilion, in southern >>>> Herkimer >>>> County, New York and from there, I'd be traveling back in time to an >>>> ancient, exotic world existing over 400 million years ago. If I >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >> >> --- >> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >> Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004 > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004 > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/plain (text body -- kept) > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 6 17:42:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Don H) Date: Tue Jan 6 17:42:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals References: <3FFABACE.000015.01208@anitaw.library.emory.edu> <000d01c3d47a$17ede0b0$109d77d5@axel> Message-ID: <3FFB64BC.34121D20@att.net> There is an interesting twist to all of this. If I may put long-term member and faithful contributor Pete Modreski on the spot: whether he is aware or not, he is quoted on page 32 of Teaching Mineralogy (Mineralogical Society of America, 1997). I have been wondering about this passage in the few weeks I have had the book: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [What follows is a reply from one mineral scientist to an Internet request for references about mineral toxicity. Read Puffer's paper (my note: this paper is not included in the book), this note and reach your own conclusions.] Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 15:10:27 -0500 (EST) From: Malcolm Ross, U.S. Geological Survey Subject: Mineral Toxicity, a paper by J.H. Puffer, Mineralogical Record, Feb. 1980. Pete Modreski recommended this paper as a reference on the subject of minerals and health. If those teaching mineralogy wish to scare the hell out of their students, let them read this paper. . . . Table 1 lists nearly 200 minerals that are "analagous to minerals described by NIOSH (1977) as suspected or proven toxins." One is hard pressed to understand how most of these minerals got on the toxic list, except to note that the NIOSH people know nothing about mineralogy. Barite, one of the most insoluble minerals, is ingested as a barite slurry for medical diagnostic purposes. Corundum, native gold, beryl, brookite, and hematite are extremely inert minerals and are in no way toxic unless, perhaps when ground up as sub micron particles and inhaled in large quantities. . . . All chemicals are poisonous when taken in sufficient amounts and all mineral dusts are dangerous in large quantities. . . . Lead-bearing minerals when ingested they go right through the digestive tract in a few hours before any significant dissolution takes place. Children in old lead mining towns, such as Leadville, CO, who played on lead-bearing mine tailings show blood lead levels that are no higher than the U.S. average. . . . I . . . can only plea that mineralogists get a better understanding of health risks by very carefully reading the primary medical literature instead of relying on second hand literature promoted by fear mongers. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Well that was neat. Pete, what is your opinion on this matter? Does anyone have this paper in a copy of MinRec? Toxically yours, Don Halterman From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 6 17:49:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Jan 6 17:49:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals References: <3FFB3742.4080406@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: <3FFB657F.4E34@Tomaszewski.net> jb wrote: > > (Who on earth actually tastes a mineral to find out what it may be?? > Hmmm...) Most folks who lick rocks in the field are doing so to better see the mineral; its easier than carrying around a bucket of water to dip them in. I was taught to spit on a rock and rub it with a thumb instead of licking it. I used to have a friend who took a squirtgun when he went collecting because spit was not sanitary. Except in arid conditions it is reasonably safe to lick rocks you pick up, at least on the dry upper side, because rain has washed away anything likely to be dissolved in your spit. But taste is a valid identification test for some minerals. As an example, my Audubon Field Guide notes for Kernite that it "has sweetish alkaline taste". Kreigh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 6 17:56:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Tue Jan 6 17:56:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals In-Reply-To: <3FFB657F.4E34@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Sometimes when I'm out digging for stuff (e.g. topaz, smoky quartz, aquamarine, etc) here in Colorado, I will put a small crystal into my mouth to wash it off. I get most of the mud/dirt off of it first, of course, and then I spit out the resulting muddy juices. :-) If I don't know if a crystal is harmful or not, I won't do it. Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Kreigh Tomaszewski Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 7:04 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals jb wrote: > > (Who on earth actually tastes a mineral to find out what it may be?? > Hmmm...) Most folks who lick rocks in the field are doing so to better see the mineral; its easier than carrying around a bucket of water to dip them in. I was taught to spit on a rock and rub it with a thumb instead of licking it. I used to have a friend who took a squirtgun when he went collecting because spit was not sanitary. Except in arid conditions it is reasonably safe to lick rocks you pick up, at least on the dry upper side, because rain has washed away anything likely to be dissolved in your spit. But taste is a valid identification test for some minerals. As an example, my Audubon Field Guide notes for Kernite that it "has sweetish alkaline taste". Kreigh _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 6 18:29:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Jan 6 18:29:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals References: Message-ID: <3FFB6ECA.321A@Tomaszewski.net> I'de be more worried about what 'bugs' might be living in the mud than the chemicals dissolved from the mineral. Bob Loeffler wrote: > > Sometimes when I'm out digging for stuff (e.g. topaz, smoky quartz, > aquamarine, etc) here in Colorado, I will put a small crystal into my mouth > to wash it off. I get most of the mud/dirt off of it first, of course, and > then I spit out the resulting muddy juices. :-) If I don't know if a > crystal is harmful or not, I won't do it. > > Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Kreigh > Tomaszewski > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 7:04 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals > > jb wrote: > > > > (Who on earth actually tastes a mineral to find out what it may be?? > > Hmmm...) > > Most folks who lick rocks in the field are doing so to better see the > mineral; its easier than carrying around a bucket of water to dip them > in. I was taught to spit on a rock and rub it with a thumb instead of > licking it. I used to have a friend who took a squirtgun when he went > collecting because spit was not sanitary. > > Except in arid conditions it is reasonably safe to lick rocks you pick > up, at least on the dry upper side, because rain has washed away > anything likely to be dissolved in your spit. > > But taste is a valid identification test for some minerals. As an > example, my Audubon Field Guide notes for Kernite that it "has sweetish > alkaline taste". > > Kreigh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 6 18:39:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Pete Richards) Date: Tue Jan 6 18:39:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals In-Reply-To: <3FFB657F.4E34@Tomaszewski.net> References: <3FFB3742.4080406@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: A very important aspect of toxicity, only hinted at in a few of the messages in this thread, is the availability of the chemical (or lack of it) to the body in a form that is toxic. If a chemical (e.g. arsenic) is locked tightly in a mineral lattice that the body cannot dissolve and interact with chemically, it does not matter that the chemical in some other form is highly toxic. If your body cannot react to it in a negative way, because the crystal holds it too tightly, it will pass on without harm. A good example is lead in pyromorphite. EPA is exploring (or even employing) the use of various chemicals to trap lead in acid mine drainage by precipitating it as pyromorphite, which is highly insoluble under normal conditions, and in toxicological testing by ingestion (with rats as I recall) shows no toxicity. Very often, people who are worried about chemicals in the environment fail to take account of such subtilties, and do simple calculations from a highly toxic form (often a highly soluble chloride or nitrate salt if the toxic is a metal) to other things such as minerals. The result is, more often than not, highly misleading and almost certainly erroneous. Unfortunately, one must test the bioavailability of each substance of concern in each chemical state and in each matrix (e.g. mineral lattice, air, mud) before one really knows how dangerous it is. The play-it-safe approach which says just keep me away from the stuff is also useless. "The stuff" is always around in small amounts. (I just saw a uranium atom float by...) The poison is in the dose. Salt, if tested at the doses applied by EPA for many new synthetic compounds, would almost certainly be classified as a toxic substance. And it contains chlorine, to make matters worse (an example of false reasoning of the sort referred to in the last paragraph). All that said, I think tasting minerals for composition is not a wise practice in this time. Taste tests are qualitative, subjective, and experience-based, and other simple more objective chemical tests are readily available for the few minerals that give a useful taste response. The same is true for smell-based tests. It is reported, and probably true, that a number of assay chemists in the gold fields suffered serious mental damage from inhaling fumes containing arsenic, looking for the tell-tale garlic smell of arsenic. My favorite no-no is that really pretty dark red mineral from Mont Saint-Hilaire, villiaumite, which is water soluble and has a distinct taste (so I am told), allowing it to be distinguished in the field from other dark red minerals such as eudialyte. Unfortunately, it is sodium fluoride, which is relatively highly toxic. A lick probably would not do you in, but there are better ways to check it out! The same should be said for the lapidarists about the possible hazards of the dust/mist coming from the various plates/blades in the polishing process. There could be bad things in it. The likelihood is that there won't be enough to be dangerous, but it's better not to breathe the stuff if you don't have to, especially over a prolonged period of time. And it's important to try to evaluate from a scientifically informed perspective the hazards associated with each type of lapidary material. Beryllium in beryl, for example, probably (I do not know this for a fact!) has a totally different toxicological profile than beryllium metal, which is well known for toxic effects. I guess the bottom line is, if you don't fully understand what you are doing, don't do it, or do it recognizing that you are taking a risk that you do not know. If you don't fully understand what you are advising, perhaps it's better not to advise. And if you accept advice from the internet without having the knowledge to evaluate it critically, caveat lector! Still alive after all these years of collecting minerals, U, Th, Pb, As, Se, Cu, NaF, HCl notwithstanding, Pete Richards -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 6 18:56:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Jan 6 18:56:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals References: <3FFABACE.000015.01208@anitaw.library.emory.edu> <000d01c3d47a$17ede0b0$109d77d5@axel> <3FFB64BC.34121D20@att.net> Message-ID: <3FFB7523.2D31@Tomaszewski.net> I found three 'hits' searching for the paper. I found it is available as a back issue at minrec.org, It is referenced in a website about hazards in museum objects, and was part of an assignment for Geol410 at uwm.edu (read the MinRec article and write brief responses...). Don H wrote: > > There is an interesting twist to all of this. If I may put long-term > member and faithful contributor Pete Modreski on the spot: whether he is > aware or not, he is quoted on page 32 of Teaching Mineralogy > (Mineralogical Society of America, 1997). I have been wondering about > this passage in the few weeks I have had the book: > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > [What follows is a reply from one mineral scientist to an Internet > request for references about mineral toxicity. Read Puffer's paper (my > note: this paper is not included in the book), this note and reach your > own conclusions.] > > Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 15:10:27 -0500 (EST) > From: Malcolm Ross, U.S. Geological Survey > Subject: Mineral Toxicity, a paper by J.H. Puffer, Mineralogical Record, > Feb. 1980. > > Pete Modreski recommended this paper as a reference on the subject of > minerals and health. If those teaching mineralogy wish to scare the > hell out of their students, let them read this paper. . . . Table 1 > lists nearly 200 minerals that are "analagous to minerals described by > NIOSH (1977) as suspected or proven toxins." One is hard pressed to > understand how most of these minerals got on the toxic list, except to > note that the NIOSH people know nothing about mineralogy. > > Barite, one of the most insoluble minerals, is ingested as a barite > slurry for medical diagnostic purposes. Corundum, native gold, beryl, > brookite, and hematite are extremely inert minerals and are in no way > toxic unless, perhaps when ground up as sub micron particles and inhaled > in large quantities. . . . All chemicals are poisonous when taken in > sufficient amounts and all mineral dusts are dangerous in large > quantities. . . . Lead-bearing minerals when ingested they go right > through the digestive tract in a few hours before any significant > dissolution takes place. Children in old lead mining towns, such as > Leadville, CO, who played on lead-bearing mine tailings show blood lead > levels that are no higher than the U.S. average. . . . I . . . can only > plea that mineralogists get a better understanding of health risks by > very carefully reading the primary medical literature instead of relying > on second hand literature promoted by fear mongers. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Well that was neat. Pete, what is your opinion on this matter? Does > anyone have this paper in a copy of MinRec? > > Toxically yours, > > Don Halterman From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 6 18:58:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Jan 6 18:58:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think it's a standard method for testing whether a specimen is a fossil too, touch it to your tongue and if it sticks then it could be a bone fragment. Bryan Samuel Adams advised, "Let us contemplate our forefathers, and posterity, and resolve to maintain the rights bequeathed to us from the former, for the sake of the latter." > > > Sometimes when I'm out digging for stuff (e.g. topaz, smoky quartz, > aquamarine, etc) here in Colorado, I will put a small crystal > into my mouth > to wash it off. I get most of the mud/dirt off of it first, of course, and > then I spit out the resulting muddy juices. :-) If I don't know if a > crystal is harmful or not, I won't do it. > > Bob > > > jb wrote: > > > > (Who on earth actually tastes a mineral to find out what it may be?? > > Hmmm...) > > Most folks who lick rocks in the field are doing so to better see the > mineral; its easier than carrying around a bucket of water to dip them > in. I was taught to spit on a rock and rub it with a thumb instead of > licking it. I used to have a friend who took a squirtgun when he went > collecting because spit was not sanitary. > > Except in arid conditions it is reasonably safe to lick rocks you pick > up, at least on the dry upper side, because rain has washed away > anything likely to be dissolved in your spit. > > But taste is a valid identification test for some minerals. As an > example, my Audubon Field Guide notes for Kernite that it "has sweetish > alkaline taste". > > Kreigh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 6 20:14:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Tue Jan 6 20:14:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals References: <3FFABACE.000015.01208@anitaw.library.emory.edu> <000d01c3d47a$17ede0b0$109d77d5@axel> <3FFB64BC.34121D20@att.net> Message-ID: <001701c3d4d4$bc2e1dc0$67a3490c@pete> Hi Don, Well, I was surprised to read my name connected to this discussion... No, I didn't realize I was mentioned or quoted in that "Teaching Mineralogy" book, of which I do have a copy (I'll have to look at that page). But to recap what was said there, as I interpret this & recall it, was that in helping to answer someone's question, I had referred them to that 1980 MR paper by J. Puffer on mineral toxicity. Then, all the rest of that quotation is from Malcolm Ross, who was pointing out (correctly, as I also believe), that many of the minerals listed by Puffer as "toxic" in his paper, are in fact so inert and insoluble, that it strains the imagination to conceive of how they could ever actually act in a toxic way (e.g., barite, corundum, gold, etc.). So, that article by Puffer, while it does contain some useful information, is, I would say, excessively over-inclusive as to what it classes as a "toxic" mineral. Pete Modreski ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don H" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 6:45 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals > > There is an interesting twist to all of this. If I may put long-term > member and faithful contributor Pete Modreski on the spot: whether he is > aware or not, he is quoted on page 32 of Teaching Mineralogy > (Mineralogical Society of America, 1997). I have been wondering about > this passage in the few weeks I have had the book... > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 7 01:26:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (armando afonso) Date: Wed Jan 7 01:26:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals References: Message-ID: <003e01c3d500$30982720$97e1fea9@1> or super-glue ... ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 2:57 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals > I think it's a standard method for testing whether a specimen is a fossil > too, touch it to your tongue and if it sticks then it could be a bone > fragment. > > Bryan > > Samuel Adams advised, "Let us contemplate our forefathers, and posterity, > and resolve to maintain the rights bequeathed to us from the former, for the > sake of the latter." > > > > > > > Sometimes when I'm out digging for stuff (e.g. topaz, smoky quartz, > > aquamarine, etc) here in Colorado, I will put a small crystal > > into my mouth > > to wash it off. I get most of the mud/dirt off of it first, of course, and > > then I spit out the resulting muddy juices. :-) If I don't know if a > > crystal is harmful or not, I won't do it. > > > > Bob > > > > > > jb wrote: > > > > > > (Who on earth actually tastes a mineral to find out what it may be?? > > > Hmmm...) > > > > Most folks who lick rocks in the field are doing so to better see the > > mineral; its easier than carrying around a bucket of water to dip them > > in. I was taught to spit on a rock and rub it with a thumb instead of > > licking it. I used to have a friend who took a squirtgun when he went > > collecting because spit was not sanitary. > > > > Except in arid conditions it is reasonably safe to lick rocks you pick > > up, at least on the dry upper side, because rain has washed away > > anything likely to be dissolved in your spit. > > > > But taste is a valid identification test for some minerals. As an > > example, my Audubon Field Guide notes for Kernite that it "has sweetish > > alkaline taste". > > > > Kreigh > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 7 02:45:03 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Jan 7 02:45:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals References: Message-ID: <002b01c3d50b$46a46000$849f77d5@axel> >The attitude that _ANY_ amount of toxic > materials is harmful isn't justified by the known science I would be very wary about ideas like that because the idea that many of our "modern" diseases are caused by exactly this slow "poisoning" is being affirmed in many ongoing experiments. Alfa-phenoles and other oestrogen-mimicing chemicals can influence human fertility and change the normal reproductive cycle of fish and other water dwellers drastically. Remarkably, they do so in concentrations that range from PPB to PPT. PPT, or parts per trillion, is a "near homeopathic" concentration. These chemicals, strangely enough, do NOT have that effect in concentrations that lie around PPM or higher. The latest alert seems to be plain dust! Dust is not destroyed when you remove it from you furniture or carpets and eventually your house. Some of it will get back in loaded with pesticides or other harmful chemicals. The idea seems preposterous but studies show that the very low concentrations of pesticides, PCB's, dioxin, herbicides, etc in the dust are much more dangerous to our immune system than higher concentrations. It appears that many, if not most, cancers can be related to this phenomenon. The general idea is that the "gentle overload" of the immune system that is caused by these trace-contaminants is responsible for the increasing amount of diagnosed allergies. Also a less efficient immune systems may lower the treshold at which diseases like AIDS or SARS make the species-jump from being an animal to a human disease. Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 1:12 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals > I wasn't advocating that people try eating beryllium salts or lead for that > matter. I was just pointing out that the alarmism prevalent today may be > unjustified. We are products of evolution and our species can deal with > toxic materials in small amounts. The attitude that _ANY_ amount of toxic > materials is harmful isn't justified by the known science. > > Bryan > > Samuel Adams advised, "Let us contemplate our forefathers, and posterity, > and resolve to maintain the rights bequeathed to us from the former, for the > sake of the latter." > > > > > OK this thread is getting weirder by each email. The taste of toxic > > stuff.... I never tasted beryllium salt and frankly I'm not really waiting > > in line for a bite. I do know that lead does taste very sweet. No > > not by my > > own experience :-) I had several toxicology classes, one of them was > > clinical toxicology. A number of doctors from the academic hospital told > > story after story of Agatha Christie like poisonings by jealous wives etc. > > One of the most frequent intoxications of children is lead intoxication. > > Small kids tend to nibble at the lead chord under in some > > curtains, or drink > > lead based paint because of the sweetness. > > > > As for 'the old days'. The solvent benzene is now practically forbidden in > > laboratories because of it's carcinogene effects. It was widely used a > > couple of decades ago. Chloroform is still widely used, but will > > probably be > > banned to for similar reasons. In the medieval times one of the > > remedies (I > > don't know for what, living??) was drinking metallic mercury. That can be > > done safely because it won't be taken up. It is only dangerous > > when inhaled. > > So be sure to swallow every little drop! > > > > Cheers! > > Maurice > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer > > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 12:39 AM > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals > > > > > > Well as for who actually tastes minerals, or chemicals: I recall > > that in my > > freshman Chem class the prof mentioned that it was once common for jars of > > beryllium sulfate to be passed around such classes so that the students > > could taste the beryllium salt. I believe it was known as 'sugar of > > beryllium' and it has a very sweet taste. The very thought of > > this now would > > cause the average toxicologist to suffer fainting spells at the least ;-> > > But there were no mass die-offs among the students. > > > > Fox News had an article on mercury toxicity last week: > > > > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,106703,00.html > > > > and Arsenic the week before: > > > > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,106135,00.html > > > > both of which expose exaggerated concerns over metal toxicity. You should > > always keep in mind that people are making money over these wild and ill > > thought out claims of environmental hazards. The 'scientists' > > live on grants > > and wild-eyed claims of danger draws a lot more grant money than > > the boring > > truth does. > > > > Bryan > > > > Samuel Adams advised, "Let us contemplate our forefathers, and posterity, > > and resolve to maintain the rights bequeathed to us from the > > former, for the > > sake of the latter." > > > > > > > > > > Kudos to J B Kramer for pointing out that things are not always as they > > > are said. Ferrous Sulfate is used in ordinary iron pills available over > > > the counter. They are used in the treatment of anemia. If one tries to > > > eat too much of it, the digestive tract can get very irritated, but > > > absorption into the blood is limited to more or less what is needed; > > > massive doses can be toxic but are probably not fatal. > > > > > > I would fear more the sodium in kernite and borax or any of the > > > carbonates than I would the boron. The borate radical is very stable > > > and would mostly just pass through the body rather than be absorbed. As > > > for the arsenates, what other ocherous earthy common mineral is out > > > there other than ochre itself and perhaps sulfur? When in Gold Hill, > > > Utah, don't fool around with the yellows and oranges; elsewhere it's > > > probably iron oxide which children and others have been known to ingest > > > in prodigious quantities while playing...so far to no known mass toxic > > > effect. > > > > > > The point is that, yes, any substance can be abused and injure us. But > > > common sense ( or is it the not-so-common kind?) should inform us in how > > > we treat anything. We. that is all of life, have been living with a > > > tremendous background radiation for as long as we have been around but > > > we have adopted to it. I am sure that the background has become > > > considerably hotter since the advent of The Atomic Age, but babies are > > > still born normally for the most part, and continue to grow and live to > > > 80 and beyond. Yeah the incidence of cancer and other chronic diseases > > > is up, but I suspect that is more a function of improper nutrition than > > > of the widespread pollutions of all sorts that we all adapt to by > > > necessity. Life is a hazardous occupation for any soul. > > > > > > Anyway it is well to keep in mind safety when working materials, > > > especially around the shop. Jade is fine except when it is fibrous > > > enough to become asbestos-like. Even then it's ok until it is ground > > > into fine dust. So pick up your boulders where you may with careless > > > abandon, but be careful when you turn them into powder. > > > > > > (Who on earth actually tastes a mineral to find out what it may be?? > > > Hmmm...) > > > > > > john > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 7 03:36:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Wed Jan 7 03:36:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals Message-ID: <103.3cb1d048.2d2d48ff@aol.com> Of course, while unpleasant, the results of a barium cocktail or enema are hardly fatal. In the cocktail you drink a flavored barium sulfate that they tell you tastes like a milk shake. (they lie, it tastes awful). I assure you there is enough barium sulfate in either to render your digestive tract somewhat opaque to x-rays. The chemical form of an element is obviously important in determining its toxicity. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE In a message dated 1/6/2004 5:00:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbryankramer@msn.com writes: include antimony, > arsenic, barium, boron, cadmium, cobalt, iron, lead, mercury, nickel --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 7 08:26:07 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Lawrence Rush) Date: Wed Jan 7 08:26:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals References: <3FFB3742.4080406@hal-pc.org> <3FFB657F.4E34@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <008601c3d53a$c239e760$338d4c0c@fekib> Hmmm......Reminds me of a time when we were in the field with a = mineralogy class. A student picked up a rock with a pinkish smear on it, = and asked the professor "Is this cobaltite", thinking the smear was = "cobalt bloom". The prof answered,"The standard test is to lick it and = see what it tastes like". The student did and responded "Ugh...this = tastes awful!". The professor said"Well, that isn't cobaltite, then. = It's bird poop!" I would hope that both of them have improved their diagnostic skills = since then! Larry Rush ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Kreigh Tomaszewski=20 To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 9:04 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals jb wrote: >=20 > (Who on earth actually tastes a mineral to find out what it may be?? > Hmmm...) Most folks who lick rocks in the field are doing so to better see the mineral; its easier than carrying around a bucket of water to dip them in. I was taught to spit on a rock and rub it with a thumb instead of licking it. I used to have a friend who took a squirtgun when he went collecting because spit was not sanitary. Except in arid conditions it is reasonably safe to lick rocks you pick up, at least on the dry upper side, because rain has washed away anything likely to be dissolved in your spit.=20 But taste is a valid identification test for some minerals. As an example, my Audubon Field Guide notes for Kernite that it "has = sweetish alkaline taste". Kreigh _______________________________________________ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 7 10:42:10 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (THOMAS BOWERS) Date: Wed Jan 7 10:42:10 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals Message-ID: Boric acid has long been used as a "safe" pesticide.  Does anyone know if it has any toxic/hazardous effects on humans, even in small amounts over long periods of time?  We will be building a house within the next 5 years or so and I was planning on sprinkling boric acid all along the base of the parameter inside the drywall.  This discussion has got me wondering if that would be wise. ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Take advantage of our limited-time introductory offer for dial-up Internet access. ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 7 10:47:10 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Wed Jan 7 10:47:10 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals Message-ID: <010720041832.14175.4c6f@att.net> Yes, in retrospect the page was taken out of context and the headers and references to names should have been edited out or changed; those things add no value to the learning exercise. I would also imagine the author was providing copies of the article to his students since it is not included in the teaching handbook itself. But hey, at least you have another claim to fame, in there with all those color Escher prints (can someone PLEASE write me a lesson on unit cell determinations without using everything in the world EXCEPT a real unit cell as an example), and if I ever meet you I can get your autograph on that page! Don From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 7 10:49:27 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tom Bowers) Date: Wed Jan 7 10:49:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hi and the first paper of the New Year In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040106123728.04463ec0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <20040107184843.95851.qmail@web61009.mail.yahoo.com> Kitty, Just curious, are there any fossils on the islands? Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: Hi John, I was too busy with the holidays to read your paper until today. I too am not into collecting fossils, but your story was almost enough to get me started! Very well done. As I've said before regarding your tales, I like the way you paint a picture of the surroundings, moods, etc...not just purely "rock stuff" (or in this case, fossil stuff). Aloha, Kitty --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 7 10:59:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Wed Jan 7 10:59:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals Message-ID: <010720041858.10724.2cf3@att.net> Hi Tom, these links might help: http://www.kemi.se/kemamne_eng/borsyra_eng.htm http://www.astrochemicals.com/6033.pdf > Boric acid has long been used as a "safe" pesticide.  Does anyone know if > it has any toxic/hazardous effects on humans, even in small amounts over long > periods of time?  We will be building a house within the next 5 years or so > and I was planning on sprinkling boric acid all along the base of the parameter > inside the drywall.  This discussion has got me wondering if that would be > wise. > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > Take advantage of our limited-time introductory offer for dial-up Internet > access. > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > text/html (html body -- converted) > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 7 11:23:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Jim Daly) Date: Wed Jan 7 11:23:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals References: Message-ID: <000001c3d552$9bef6d60$5e5204d0@jim> Actually, only lead carbonate tastes sweet. It was known as "sugar of lead" in the old days. This was the ingredient in lead-based paint, and the reason some children ate it. Other lead compounds, and lead itself, have no taste, because they are for all practical purposes insoluble. They are also not very toxic by ingestion for that reason. They do have some solubility in stomach acids, which is the main problem. The most serious toxicity problems with lead are by inhalation of dust, since it then gets into the lungs, where it doesn't pass through the body. It just sits there, and even slight solubility results in absorption. The other problem is organic lead compounds, such as tetraethyl lead. These can be absorbed by the body. Jim DalySauktown Sales Microminerals and mounting supplies http://www.sauktown.com sauktown@adsnet.com or orders@sauktown.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice de Graaf" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 5:57 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals > OK this thread is getting weirder by each email. The taste of toxic > stuff.... I never tasted beryllium salt and frankly I'm not really waiting > in line for a bite. I do know that lead does taste very sweet. No not by my > own experience :-) I had several toxicology classes, one of them was > clinical toxicology. A number of doctors from the academic hospital told > story after story of Agatha Christie like poisonings by jealous wives etc. > One of the most frequent intoxications of children is lead intoxication. > Small kids tend to nibble at the lead chord under in some curtains, or drink > lead based paint because of the sweetness. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 7 12:12:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Jan 7 12:12:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hi and the first paper of the New Year In-Reply-To: <20040107184843.95851.qmail@web61009.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040106123728.04463ec0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040107102826.009e5020@mail.aloha.net> I had never heard of fossils in Hawaii, but John Cornish wrote to the list yesterday the following: I knew a guy...who collected extinct land snails and on Oahu, at the Laie Quarry, near the calcite caves, fossil shells were found in the limestone. Aloha, Kitty At 08:48 AM 1/7/2004, you wrote: >Kitty, > >Just curious, are there any fossils on the islands? --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 7 12:17:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Rik Dillen) Date: Wed Jan 7 12:17:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hematite + magnetite Message-ID: <000001c3d55b$0c7af1f0$116bc950@maxdata> Dear friends, This time I have a job-related request. For calibration of our GD-OES (glow discharge optical emission spectrometer) for oxygen (target : phase determination with depth profiling on oxidised sheet steel) we are after a solid piece of VERY PURE hematite, and one of magnetite. I think that the best purity would be guaranteed in a large single crystal of each mineral. We should be able to reveal a polished cross section of at least about 1.5 X 1.5 cm that is free of inclusions and/or cavities. Massive material is IMHO not suited for the purpose, because it is NEVER pure enough (BTW massive stuff we have usually about 3 million tons in stock :>)) Suppliers of ultrapure products only can supply these materials in powder form, which also will not cover our needs (not even after pelletisation). So we need a "massive" (not platy, because the difficulty of handling it to produce a mechanically stable cross section) crystal that has a high probability of being pure enough of hematite and magnetite, of let's say about 2-3 cm. How it looks like at the outside (damages, scratches etc.) is totally irrelevant... I guarantee you it will be destroyed. If you can offer such material, please let me know off list (I suppose nobody on this list is in fact interested in ugly, damaged crystals). If someone has any other idea, I would be glad to hear about it. Thanks and best regards, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15 B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium Tel. + 32 3 7706007 E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 7 12:31:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (jb) Date: Wed Jan 7 12:31:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Toxiic Minerals Message-ID: <3FFC6292.9060607@hal-pc.org> Yeah, Bob (and all) we've all given into the temptation to care " a lick or two" for that potential speciman in the field. Especially in the desert where the caliche makes one wonder if that piece of agate is really a keeper or not. But we also have a fair idea beforehand that the country rock is caliche or old volcanic ash or just plain disintegrated granite. In mining areas, if one has done the homework, one knows what to expect and take everything related to safety into account. In the shop one always does that, e.g., thinking about malachite dust... But things sure have gotten strange since I was a kid. Back then several of us young teeners who were interested in Chemistry would peruse the ads in Chemical&Engineering News for free samples, compose a letter on a "letterhead" and write away for them. Several times out of ten we would get the sample back in the mails. We learned that thiokols are very evil-smelling, that palm. tall, and coconut oils were the basis for lots of foodstuffs and shampoos, that even Boron metal was available free in two-ounce lots, and that feedstocks were useful for all kinds of laboratory productions by amateurs. I even once got a five gallon can of Nitrobenzene nicely crated and leaking through Railway Express. (The only immediate use I could think of for it was for drag racing.) I also quickly discovered that the dregs from the Solvay Process were good for road salt and nothing else. Now the USA has gone completely bananas. I read Rachel Carson's books when they first came out and agreed with every word. But her sane and reasonable warnings have been wildly exaggerated to the extremes to say the least. I wonder if some of it isn't related to the implicit desire to live long and die hard that pervades so much of our society...but than I think, "Naw; all ya' gotta do is follow the money! In any event there seems to be a paranoia about keeping everything the same as it is now, despite the known fact that the Universe insists upon constant change as the given way of things. In the mid-50's anyone could go to any hardware store and buy lead acetate paper which was put in a shallow dish with a little water and fed to the flies. It was very effective. Likewise Paris green as an insecticide. I wonder if we really have made any progress by eliminating these highly poisonous but more or less natural substances in favor of the huge number of industrial pesticides. (Remember that DDT is still freely used in the "advanced" society of Chile among many other places.) Boric acid is still the most effective and safest eye wash around. You can buy it at any drugstore. It is also one of the most effective known defenses against the cockroach. Of course in the city the roaches merely move next door until the danger passes, then come back. But against isolated populations it can completely eliminate them if used long enough. I prefer that to any of the sprays and other stuff. the smell alone of those things should tell you something aint quite right here. Someone mentioned some epidemilogical studies that show dust, etc. supposedly weakens the immune system. I would guess that it is more than halfway the other way around. Because we don't eat right or pay attention to the things that make us strong, we weaken ourselves and fall victum to the incredible amount and number of things that we are putting into the environment in the name of keeping us from evil. Darwin may have been wrong about a lot of things, but he sure nailed it when he pointed out that one adapts or one dies. Our method of adaptation so far is to continue with our "miracle" cures, try to clean up the mess afterwords, and negect to do the real right thing, which is be our own best physicians. Well, forgive me. All this is pretty far afield from poor rockhounds poisoning themselves accidently in a rock-strewn field. As for fossils; yes, you can eat Dolomite; it's actually good for you. Calcite rock isn't half bad either. Has a bit of grain to it though from the included sand...Caution! May causes excessive wear on tooth enamel. As to the fossils themselves, I thought Chondritin was good for you. No? I guess not if it's from Euterpiads... john From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 7 12:56:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (jb) Date: Wed Jan 7 12:56:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals Message-ID: <3FFC675A.3070909@hal-pc.org> Ah, Maurice, the good old days. Makes me think of another horseman, M. Chevalier. Benzene is a basic feedstock in the chemical industry. It's not available anymore to you and me, but many tons of it are produced every year because it is tha starting point for, among other things, many pharmaceuticals. It is THE basic aromatic compound. And where would we be without all the artificial flavors (of which artificial banana was the first) without the aromatics? Way back when I was a teen-ager and libraries were still libraries, I discovered De Quincy's book on heroin addiction, an excellent read. Then I discovered another heavy tome that outlined all the known pharmacology of the addictions. One of these was arsenic. By starting small and gradually increasing the dosages, one can become addicted to arsenic. And then even massive doses are not fatal. Very useful I suppose if one suffers from Syphilis, but not too instructive otherwise. Except to note that even the evil poisons are tolerable in the right circumstances. An exception is Mercury. It can and WILL be absorbed through the skin without one even knowing what is going on, And the resulting accumulation can build to a high enough level to interfere with the musculature. I had a professor of Thermodynamics who was a fine and learned man. But he had done graduate work using Mercury and was a virtual cripple in his later years because of it. Everyone: forget about lead, arsenic, and beryllium. Beware of Mercury! john From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 7 12:56:13 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Wed Jan 7 12:56:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hi and the first paper of the New Year Message-ID: <1a2.1ef22046.2d2dcbe4@aol.com> I have a fossil collecting friend from Honolulu who has collected fossils on the island. These are all Pleistocene. He has mollusks and a few crabs. It has been many years since I've seen pictures of his material so that's as best I can recall. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE In a message dated 1/7/2004 3:12:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, kahako@aloha.net writes: I had never heard of fossils in Hawaii, but John Cornish wrote to the list yesterday the following: I knew a guy...who collected extinct land snails and on Oahu, at the Laie Quarry, near the calcite caves, fossil shells were found in the limestone. Aloha, Kitty --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 7 13:34:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Dan Weinrich) Date: Wed Jan 7 13:34:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ad - Website updates/Tucson news References: <000001c3d55b$0c7af1f0$116bc950@maxdata> Message-ID: <011b01c3d565$3ad9a0a0$6401a8c0@S0029989181> Hi! First I want to let everyone know that I will have a new update, Friday morning, Jan. 9, 2004 at 9:30 central standard time, featuring 24 classic old time specimens from the Joplin/Granby area in Missouri. All are very historical, and of very good quality, formerly in the collection of Jim DuFoe. These will include a suite of cerussites (a few with pyromorphite), hemimorphite, smithsonites and a leadhillite. Specimens like these are very difficult to obtain today. Be sure to keep checking out the Reverse Auctions! There are currently some very good things available there. In the near future expect some good material from the Viburnum Trend to appear in these galleries. I will be in Dallas, Texas for a private showing with Herb Obodda on Saturday, Jan. 24. If you are going to be in the area and would like to join us, please contact me for information. I plan to arrive in Tucson on Jan. 27. If you would like a private appointment anytime between then and Feb. 8, please let me know. I will be in an apartment about 5 - 10 minutes drive from the Inn Suites Hotel. I hope that everyone has had a great holiday and I am looking forward to 2004! Dan Weinrich http://www.danweinrich.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rik Dillen" To: "Rockhounds" Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 2:15 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Hematite + magnetite > Dear friends, > > This time I have a job-related request. > For calibration of our GD-OES (glow discharge optical emission spectrometer) for oxygen (target : phase determination with depth > profiling on oxidised sheet steel) we are after a solid piece of VERY PURE hematite, and one of magnetite. > I think that the best purity would be guaranteed in a large single crystal of each mineral. We should be able to reveal a polished > cross section of at least about 1.5 X 1.5 cm that is free of inclusions and/or cavities. > Massive material is IMHO not suited for the purpose, because it is NEVER pure enough (BTW massive stuff we have usually about 3 > million tons in stock :>)) Suppliers of ultrapure products only can supply these materials in powder form, which also will not > cover our needs (not even after pelletisation). > > So we need a "massive" (not platy, because the difficulty of handling it to produce a mechanically stable cross section) crystal > that has a high probability of being pure enough of hematite and magnetite, of let's say about 2-3 cm. How it looks like at the > outside (damages, scratches etc.) is totally irrelevant... I guarantee you it will be destroyed. > > If you can offer such material, please let me know off list (I suppose nobody on this list is in fact interested in ugly, damaged > crystals). > If someone has any other idea, I would be glad to hear about it. > Thanks and best regards, > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15 > B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > Belgium > > Tel. + 32 3 7706007 > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) > >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! > >>> Exchange list > > MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 7 13:49:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Jan 7 13:49:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals In-Reply-To: <010720041858.10724.2cf3@att.net> Message-ID: BTW according to my Father-in-law, who is something of a professional expert on pesticides, Boric acid does seem to work but only in dry climates. The mode of action actually is mechanical, the crystals adhere to the breathing spicules (if I got that right) of the insects and kills them that way. Damp air ruins the sharp crystal points and so they don't work. This work was done in Florida and Boric acid is ineffective here. Bryan Samuel Adams advised, "Let us contemplate our forefathers, and posterity, and resolve to maintain the rights bequeathed to us from the former, for the sake of the latter." > > Boric acid has long been used as a "safe" pesticide.  Does > anyone know if > > it has any toxic/hazardous effects on humans, even in small > amounts over long > > periods of time?  We will be building a house within the > next 5 years or so > > and I was planning on sprinkling boric acid all along the base > of the parameter > > inside the drywall.  This discussion has got me wondering > if that would be > > wise. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 7 13:59:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tom Bowers) Date: Wed Jan 7 13:59:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040107215808.12790.qmail@web61003.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks for the input Bryan, >From Morningstar's web sites it sounded like a safe enough material, but it sounds like, even in the driest climate, its effacacy would be short-lived. J Bryan Kramer wrote: BTW according to my Father-in-law, who is something of a professional expert on pesticides, Boric acid does seem to work but only in dry climates. The mode of action actually is mechanical, the crystals adhere to the breathing spicules (if I got that right) of the insects and kills them that way. Damp air ruins the sharp crystal points and so they don't work. This work was done in Florida and Boric acid is ineffective here. Bryan Samuel Adams advised, "Let us contemplate our forefathers, and posterity, and resolve to maintain the rights bequeathed to us from the former, for the sake of the latter." > > Boric acid has long been used as a "safe" pesticide. Does > anyone know if > > it has any toxic/hazardous effects on humans, even in small > amounts over long > > periods of time? We will be building a house within the > next 5 years or so > > and I was planning on sprinkling boric acid all along the base > of the parameter > > inside the drywall. This discussion has got me wondering > if that would be > > wise. _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 7 15:11:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Duane) Date: Wed Jan 7 15:11:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.1.0.20040107180039.00bff270@pop.megalink.net> People interested in toxicity values (probably as accurate as you can find) as well as a host of other information on chemicals, many of which exist naturally as minerals, should try to pick up a copy of the Merck Index which contains a HOST of practical information and references on the 10,000 most common chemical substances. The book is published every 3-4 years as updates occur but any relatively recent copy (I have 1990) is a good reference. Best wishes, Duane From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 7 16:03:03 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (jjunkroski) Date: Wed Jan 7 16:03:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've been using boric acid powder in my home to discourage ( NOTHING will eliminate ) carpenter ants. When I dust it around their paths they disappear almost immediately. I know it's widely sold in the South for cockroach control. I'm beginning to have some doubts about the wisdom of this practice, particularly the effect on our two well-loved cats. Any advice? Junk on 1/7/04 12:20 PM, THOMAS BOWERS at aden0313@msn.com wrote: > Boric acid has long been used as a "safe" pesticide.  Does anyone know if > it has any toxic/hazardous effects on humans, even in small amounts over long > periods of time?  We will be building a house within the next 5 years or > so and I was planning on sprinkling boric acid all along the base of the > parameter inside the drywall.  This discussion has got me wondering if > that would be wise. > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > Take advantage of our limited-time introductory offer for dial-up Internet > access. > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > text/html (html body -- converted) > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 7 16:52:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Teresa Otis) Date: Wed Jan 7 16:52:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals Message-ID: <410-2200414805158740@earthlink.net> I've been using good old fashioned 20 Mule Team Borax (in the laundry detergent area of your grocery store) to deal with crawly critters for many years now. After my first horrible beyond control experience in a water flooded area of Memphis, TN combined with high humidity (roach heaven!), I started using it. It was recommended by a naturalist friend of mine. I sprinkle it on the carpet (no, I don't have children crawling around but I do have dogs and cats) and along the baseboards and doorways. I rarely ever see ants, termites, roaches, etc. anymore. And now living in desert Arizona, it seems to work just as well on spiders and things out here. Of course it probably has to be 'renewed' more often than boric acid -- but the reason I tried the 20 Mule Team in the first place was the cost difference in it and boric acid. Teresa Otis > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 1/7/04 11:58:02 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals > > > Hi Tom, these links might help: > > http://www.kemi.se/kemamne_eng/borsyra_eng.htm > http://www.astrochemicals.com/6033.pdf > > > Boric acid has long been used as a "safe" pesticide.  Does anyone know if > > it has any toxic/hazardous effects on humans, even in small amounts over long > > periods of time?  We will be building a house within the next 5 years or so > > and I was planning on sprinkling boric acid all along the base of the parameter > > inside the drywall.  This discussion has got me wondering if that would be > > wise. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > Take advantage of our limited-time introductory offer for dial-up Internet > > access. > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > text/html (html body -- converted) > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 7 17:18:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jan 7 17:18:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: [meteorite-list] Re: Toxic Minerals References: <103.3cb1d048.2d2d48ff@aol.com> Message-ID: <3FFCAF92.794@Tomaszewski.net> Gene, Didn't you know that the barium milk shakes come in two flavors? If you don't volunteer a preference they just mix them together. Next time remember to ask for either 'chalk' or 'plaster' flavor and it will taste better than the usual mix does. ;~} Kreigh FOSSILNUT@aol.com wrote: > > Of course, while unpleasant, the results of a barium cocktail or enema are > hardly fatal. In the cocktail you drink a flavored barium sulfate that they tell > you tastes like a milk shake. (they lie, it tastes awful). I assure you there > is enough barium sulfate in either to render your digestive tract somewhat > opaque to x-rays. The chemical form of an element is obviously important in > determining its toxicity. > > Gene Hartstein > Newark, DE > > In a message dated 1/6/2004 5:00:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, > jbryankramer@msn.com writes: > include antimony, > > arsenic, barium, boron, cadmium, cobalt, iron, lead, mercury, nickel > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 7 20:01:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Wed Jan 7 20:01:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals Message-ID: <137.29b14353.2d2e2fd2@aol.com> Benzene is also the starting point for many urethane foams. Interestingly, although you cannot buy it easily as benzene, most gasoline has a significant amount of benzene (along with toluene and xylene) in it. So you still get exposure every time you spill some at the pump. Gene Hartstein. In a message dated 1/7/2004 3:56:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbacko@hal-pc.org writes: Benzene is a basic feedstock in the chemical industry. It's not available anymore to you and me, but many tons of it are produced every year because it is tha starting point for, among other things, many pharmaceuticals. It is THE basic aromatic compound. And where would we be without all the artificial flavors (of which artificial banana was the first) without the aromatics? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 7 20:01:18 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Wed Jan 7 20:01:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals Message-ID: <17a.2488a2d2.2d2e2fd1@aol.com> A good bug killer is plain ordinary diatomaceous earth. Works particularly well on things like beetles and roaches. The abrasive particles adhere to and abrade the joints of the arthrapods. Besides, diatomaceous earth is a fossil. Avoid breathing the dust when spreading it, just like you'd do if you were reacharging your pool filter with it. For added enjoyment look at some under a microscope. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 7 20:52:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jan 7 20:52:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals References: <17a.2488a2d2.2d2e2fd1@aol.com> Message-ID: <3FFCE1BF.4BA4@Tomaszewski.net> It also makes a reasonably good (and cheap) pre-polish for tumbling; Great stuff in the vege garden! FOSSILNUT@aol.com wrote: > > A good bug killer is plain ordinary diatomaceous earth. Works particularly > well on things like beetles and roaches. The abrasive particles adhere to and > abrade the joints of the arthrapods. > > Besides, diatomaceous earth is a fossil. Avoid breathing the dust when > spreading it, just like you'd do if you were reacharging your pool filter with it. > For added enjoyment look at some under a microscope. > > Gene Hartstein > Newark, DE From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 7 21:35:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Wed Jan 7 21:35:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hematite + magnetite References: <000001c3d55b$0c7af1f0$116bc950@maxdata> Message-ID: <008901c3d5a9$353bb2c0$d2a4490c@pete> Rik, Fairly large, solid crystals of pure hematite are fairly common from Brazil. I believe they are the source of the polished hematite beads that one often sees. I've seen (and purchased samples of) nice solid, tumbled-polished pieces of such hematite at rock shops and mineral shows, often for just $1 or so for a 1- or 2-inch size piece; you should be able to find some without too much difficulty--probably the polished lumps are even more generally available, than the crystal specimens. Pete Modreski ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rik Dillen" To: "Rockhounds" Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 1:15 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Hematite + magnetite > Dear friends, > > This time I have a job-related request. > For calibration of our GD-OES (glow discharge optical emission spectrometer) for oxygen (target : phase determination with depth > profiling on oxidised sheet steel) we are after a solid piece of VERY PURE hematite, and one of magnetite. > I think that the best purity would be guaranteed in a large single crystal of each mineral. We should be able to reveal a polished > cross section of at least about 1.5 X 1.5 cm that is free of inclusions and/or cavities. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 8 02:19:03 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Jan 8 02:19:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals References: Message-ID: <000501c3d5d0$773c9a00$119c77d5@axel> I recall from my student years that a boric acid solution was kept at hand during laboratory practice. It was used to rinse the eyes in case you got any caustic solutions in them... So, it can't have been VERY toxic, can it? I guess the problem with "hazardous" materials is a lot like "political corectness". Where does one draw the line? When does a joke stop being just an example of bad taste and becomes a racist one? When you really want a female candidate for a job, should you still put "person" in the ad? I think the "line" thay we draw is spelled L-I-A-B-I-L-I-T-Y . ;-)))))) If the manual of say... a wheelchair does not explicitly state that you have to remove the person in it BEFORE folding it you can file a gazillion dollar lawsuit against the company that makes the wheelchair. You just have to crunch your old grandma in it. A good manual is wasted on idiots... They will still have accidents, even while reading their newspaper (don't laugh, I've seen it happen). However, when a bunch of opportunists make it a sport to find loopholes in manuals and get rich off it... aren't they holding society hostage? That 's why everything has a warning label on it while the REAL dangers are often overlooked because they drown in a sea of futile warnings. Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "THOMAS BOWERS" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 7:20 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals > Boric acid has long been used as a "safe" pesticide.  Does anyone know if it has any toxic/hazardous effects on humans, even in small amounts over long periods of time?  We will be building a house within the next 5 years or so and I was planning on sprinkling boric acid all along the base of the parameter inside the drywall.  This discussion has got me wondering if that would be wise. > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > Take advantage of our limited-time introductory offer for dial-up Internet access. > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > text/html (html body -- converted) > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 8 09:28:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Jan 8 09:28:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals (boric acid) In-Reply-To: <410-2200414805158740@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040107160219.02390560@mail.aloha.net> When we first moved to Hawaii in 1972 the apartment we rented in Honolulu was infested with roaches---BIG ones, some over 6 cm. long. They got into anything that produced heat and ate the insulation off the wiring, so we quickly had a dead radio and clock. They would magically appear in the kitchen as soon as we turned the lights off and went into the living room, and you could hear them scrabbling about in there looking for any crumbs that might have fallen onto the floor. We tried "bombing" the place and all would be well for a week or so, and then someone in the next apartment would bomb their place, and all the roached would return to ours. We hated using bombs and sprays and the stronger paint-on insecticides, for a variety of reasons. Then an ad appeared in the paper for a "foolproof" and "non-toxic" roach killer, so I went to the store to check it out. I looked at the label and found that the ingredients amounted to 98% boric acid, and a 2 oz. container cost $15. So went to the drugstore and bought a 20 oz. jar of boric acid powder for $1.50. I sprinkled some under the sink, in the back of cupboards, behind the refrigerator and stove, and under every electric clock, the TV, etc. Bingo, no more roaches. And no dead bodies. That apartment was an extreme case, but roaches will show up in the newest and cleanest houses at times here, so we've been using boric acid powder ever since. Also, since the powder is in locations that pets can't reach, we haven't had to worry about our dogs and cats over the past 30 years. Because we've never seen any dead roaches, and we've never observed that the powder has been disturbed---eaten, or even walked through---we have wondered if the powder acts as a repellent in some fashion. It doesn't seem to work for ants, however. Aloha, Kitty At 02:51 PM 1/7/2004, you wrote: >I've been using good old fashioned 20 Mule Team Borax (in the laundry >detergent area of your grocery store) to deal with crawly critters for many >years now. After my first horrible beyond control experience in a water >flooded area of Memphis, TN combined with high humidity (roach heaven!), I >started using it. It was recommended by a naturalist friend of mine. I >sprinkle it on the carpet (no, I don't have children crawling around but I >do have dogs and cats) and along the baseboards and doorways. I rarely >ever see ants, termites, roaches, etc. anymore. And now living in desert >Arizona, it seems to work just as well on spiders and things out here. Of >course it probably has to be 'renewed' more often than boric acid -- but >the reason I tried the 20 Mule Team in the first place was the cost >difference in it and boric acid. > >Teresa Otis --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 8 11:38:16 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Jim Daly) Date: Thu Jan 8 11:38:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals (boric acid) References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040107160219.02390560@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <000501c3d61d$5353c3a0$3f5204d0@jim> Boric acid is the main (and I think only) ingredient in an ant poison sold under the trade name Terro. Terro used to contain arsenic, and it worked very well. It's now only boric acid, and doesn't work nearly as well. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 11:48 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals (boric acid) > When we first moved to Hawaii in 1972 the apartment we rented in Honolulu > was infested with roaches---BIG ones, some over 6 cm. long. They got into > anything that produced heat and ate the insulation off the wiring, so we > quickly had a dead radio and clock. They would magically appear in the > kitchen as soon as we turned the lights off and went into the living room, > and you could hear them scrabbling about in there looking for any crumbs > that might have fallen onto the floor. We tried "bombing" the place and > all would be well for a week or so, and then someone in the next apartment > would bomb their place, and all the roached would return to ours. We hated > using bombs and sprays and the stronger paint-on insecticides, for a > variety of reasons. Then an ad appeared in the paper for a "foolproof" and > "non-toxic" roach killer, so I went to the store to check it out. I looked > at the label and found that the ingredients amounted to 98% boric acid, and > a 2 oz. container cost $15. So went to the drugstore and bought a 20 oz. > jar of boric acid powder for $1.50. I sprinkled some under the sink, in > the back of cupboards, behind the refrigerator and stove, and under every > electric clock, the TV, etc. Bingo, no more roaches. And no dead > bodies. That apartment was an extreme case, but roaches will show up in > the newest and cleanest houses at times here, so we've been using boric > acid powder ever since. Also, since the powder is in locations that pets > can't reach, we haven't had to worry about our dogs and cats over the past > 30 years. Because we've never seen any dead roaches, and we've never > observed that the powder has been disturbed---eaten, or even walked > through---we have wondered if the powder acts as a repellent in some > fashion. It doesn't seem to work for ants, however. > > Aloha, Kitty > > At 02:51 PM 1/7/2004, you wrote: > > >I've been using good old fashioned 20 Mule Team Borax (in the laundry > >detergent area of your grocery store) to deal with crawly critters for many > >years now. After my first horrible beyond control experience in a water > >flooded area of Memphis, TN combined with high humidity (roach heaven!), I > >started using it. It was recommended by a naturalist friend of mine. I > >sprinkle it on the carpet (no, I don't have children crawling around but I > >do have dogs and cats) and along the baseboards and doorways. I rarely > >ever see ants, termites, roaches, etc. anymore. And now living in desert > >Arizona, it seems to work just as well on spiders and things out here. Of > >course it probably has to be 'renewed' more often than boric acid -- but > >the reason I tried the 20 Mule Team in the first place was the cost > >difference in it and boric acid. > > > >Teresa Otis > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004 > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/plain (text body -- kept) > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 8 23:23:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Thu Jan 8 23:23:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amethyst vs. Amethystine Message-ID: <1df.1715d697.2d2fb0cb@aol.com> Amethyst vs. Amethystine... is there a difference or just different name for the same thing? Thanx Tim McGinnis --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 9 00:39:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (armando afonso) Date: Fri Jan 9 00:39:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amethyst vs. Amethystine References: <1df.1715d697.2d2fb0cb@aol.com> Message-ID: <000501c3d68b$f8148b40$97e1fea9@1> Amethystrine = Ametyst + Citrin in the same specimen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 7:22 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Amethyst vs. Amethystine > Amethyst vs. Amethystine... is there a difference or just different name for > the same thing? Thanx > > Tim McGinnis > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 9 02:56:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Jolyon Ralph) Date: Fri Jan 9 02:56:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amethyst vs. Amethystine In-Reply-To: <000501c3d68b$f8148b40$97e1fea9@1> References: <1df.1715d697.2d2fb0cb@aol.com> <000501c3d68b$f8148b40$97e1fea9@1> Message-ID: <1073645001.3ffe85c975973@mail.mways.co.uk> Hi, Not quite right... "Ametrine" is the name some people and traders use for Amethyst and Citrine mixed within the same specimen. Amethyst is the common name for the purple variety of quartz. Amethystine is an adjective used to describe something which means "looks like amethyst", normally used for quartz, so that Amethystine quartz = Amethyst. It's also possible that the amethystine adjective could be used with other minerals, eg: Amethystine Beryl = A purple beryl of a similar colour to Amethyst. Hope this helps! Jolyon http://www.mindat.org Quoting armando afonso : > Amethystrine = Ametyst + Citrin in the same specimen > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 7:22 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Amethyst vs. Amethystine > > > > Amethyst vs. Amethystine... is there a difference or just different name > for > > the same thing? Thanx > > > > Tim McGinnis > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 9 08:23:05 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Fri Jan 9 08:23:05 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amethyst vs. Amethystine Message-ID: <010920041617.5886.16c5@att.net> I'd also guess that some people may use "amethystine" as a marketing word to describe quartz that is very pale amethyst, or only partly pale amethyst mixed with, perhaps drusy white quartz--trying to make it sound better, to take advantage of the "amethyst" name for something that only barely qualifies as being called amethyst. If I had a quartz specimen that just had a bare tinge of purple color, I might call it "amethystine quartz". ---Pete Modreski From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 9 11:39:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Michael D. McCormack) Date: Fri Jan 9 11:39:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fonts for Miller Indices Message-ID: Does anyuone know if there are Truetype fonts available to print out Miller indices with bar indices? Also a font for printing out mineral formulas? Thanks in advance for your help. Mike From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 9 11:54:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Fri Jan 9 11:54:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fonts for Miller Indices In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No, I don't, but I'm wondering if someone also knows hor to make subscribt (chemical formula's) in MS Access. :-) Cheers, Maurice -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Michael D. McCormack Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 9:27 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Fonts for Miller Indices Does anyuone know if there are Truetype fonts available to print out Miller indices with bar indices? Also a font for printing out mineral formulas? Thanks in advance for your help. Mike _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 9 16:48:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Mark) Date: Fri Jan 9 16:48:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fonts for Miller Indices In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FFF4B68.8050109@xs4all.nl> Michael D. McCormack wrote: > Does anyuone know if there are Truetype fonts available to print out Miller > indices with bar indices? Also a font for printing out mineral formulas? > Thanks in advance for your help. > > Mike > Hi Mike, Some time ago I tried to find a true type font with overbar symbols, but I never found one. I think you will have to buy a custom created font. Maybe in the future OpenType fonts and Unicode will do the trick. I don't know which software you use, but in MS Word you can generate numbers with overbars. Select the symbol font and type a ` followed by a number. Or type a number, select the overline symbol and decrease the width of the number until the overline is over it. Or use the formula editor. I don't think these tricks will work in other programs like Excel or Access. In html you can use CSS text decoration styles. Regarding fonts for mineral formulas, I believe there are commercial fonts available. I tried a freeware font once, can't remember the name, but it looked pretty awful. cheers, Mark. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 9 16:56:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Fri Jan 9 16:56:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 2003 Year End Collecting Statistics Message-ID: <3FFF4D8D.1010303@tenforward.com> 1/9/2003 My 2003 Year End Collecting Statistics Hi All, I'm back again with my annual year in review. It was another busy year with lots of terrific activities and memories. I visited several places this year which I found quite thrilling, the best were two out of state new localities where I enjoyed incredible fossil and crystal treasures. Idaho was a blast, with friends we opened dozens and dozens of pockets up to 24 by 24 inches which yielded beautiful specimens of pink heulandite associated with delicate hair-like mordenite. Additionally, we took great pleasure while enjoying the serenity of collecting numerous times along our Washington, Strait of Juan de Fuca beaches for fossil treasures. Below are the compiled stats from this years forays. I hope all of you had a safe and productive year too. Take care everyone, John 2003 Years End Collecting Statistics Total Trips 68 Different Localities Visited 19 Mineral 11 Fossil 8 Most Frequented A Fossil Locality 24 (4th Year In A Row) New Mineral Localities 1 Sweet Home Mine, Alma, Colorado New Fossil Localities 1 Langs Quarry, Ilion, N.Y. Shows Visited as a Participant 6 Longest Trips 24 and 19 Days Territory Covered U.S.A. - WA, OR, ID, MT, UT, WY, AZ, CO, N.Y. P.S. Tucson is just around the corner only weeks away and as always, the days are flying too quickly by! Should you find yourselves in Tucson, stop by and say hi, I'll be in the Inn Suites, room 169. All the very best! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 9 17:08:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Fri Jan 9 17:08:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fonts for Miller Indices In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200401100103.i0A13IIG010566@mxsf27.cluster1.charter.net> I'm not sure about the Miller Indices, but subscripts, superscripts, = Greek, German, French characters can be done using the character map. It = is a bit clumsy--but some of the main characters have keyboard = shortcuts. Go to programs, Accessories, system tools, Character map and = there are a plethora of characters. Using Arial Unicode MS, most all are = available. Don H and I have been working on an Access mineral database = and I have included in it a way to very easily add those characters to = the various description fields. I will check about the Miller Indices = characters and will add them also for the next version update. =20 We are currently on Version 1=E2=82=8D = =E2=82=80.=E2=82=81=E2=82=82=E2=82=83=E2=82=84=E2=82=85=E2=82=86=E2=82=87= =E2=82=88=E2=82=89 =E2=82=8E = A=E2=81=B0=C2=B9=C2=B3=E2=81=B4=E2=81=B5=E2=81=B6=E2=81=B7=E2=81=B8=E2=81= =B9 You can also create your own characters that can then be used using the = Private Character editor. In fact, it would be a good deal of help to me = to know what kind of special characters one might want to use in = reference to mineral collecting. I have included the following to my = character map dialog for the program. I need to know what others would = be useful and desirable.=20 =E2=82=80=E2=82=81=E2=82=82=E2=82=83=E2=82=84=E2=82=85=E2=82=86=E2=82=87=E2= =82=88=E2=82=89=E2=82=8A=E2=82=81=E2=82=8D=E2=82=8E=E2=81=B0=C2=B9 = =C2=B2 = =C2=B3=E2=81=B4=E2=81=B5=E2=81=B6=E2=81=B7=E2=81=B8=E2=81=B9=E2=81=BA=E2=82= =8D=E2=82=8E =E2=85=9B=C2=BC=E2=85=9C=C2=BD=E2=85=9D=C2=BE=E2=85=9E = =CE=93=CE=A0=CE=94=CE=98=CE=A3=CE=A8=CE=A9=CE=B1=CE=B2=CE=B3=CE=B5=CE=B6=CE= =BB=C2=B5=CF=80=CE=99 =E2=86=90 =E2=86=92 =E2=86=91 =E2=86=93 = =E2=87=86=E2=87=86 = =E2=88=9E=E2=88=A5=E2=88=9A=E2=89=A3=C3=84=C2=B0=C2=B5g =C2=A3 =E2=82=AC = =E2=82=A4 Tommy Armstrong > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com=20 > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of=20 > Maurice de Graaf > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 2:54 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fonts for Miller Indices >=20 > No, I don't, but I'm wondering if someone also knows hor to=20 > make subscribt (chemical formula's) in MS Access. :-) >=20 > Cheers, > Maurice >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Michael D. > McCormack > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 9:27 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Fonts for Miller Indices >=20 >=20 > Does anyuone know if there are Truetype fonts available to=20 > print out Miller indices with bar indices? Also a font for=20 > printing out mineral formulas? > Thanks in advance for your help. >=20 > Mike >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >=20 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 9 17:36:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Fri Jan 9 17:36:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fonts for Miller Indices In-Reply-To: <200401100103.i0A13IIG010566@mxsf27.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <200401100132.i0A1WB89040766@mxsf10.cluster1.charter.net> Well I just received this post I made, and it did not show all of the characters correctly probably because the limitation of the list serve to text only. But you can create all numbers sub and superscript and can view them if created and viewed with Arial Unicode MS font. These would have been correctly displayed in a word or excel document or any rich text doc as long as you had the Arial Unicode MS font installed. Actually character map its pretty kewl, just a bit clunky to use for lots of typing. That is why I developed a custom map for our program, so that when you are typing along, and then want a "superscript 1", you double click to bring up my character map, double click on the "superscript 1 button", and it is inserted directly into the text at the insertion point. Like I said, let me know what characters would be useful and desirable, as we are trying to develop this thing with Serious mineral collectors and curators in mind. Tommy Armstrong N 35* 23' 52'' W 78* 49' 9'' > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Tommy Armstrong > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 8:05 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fonts for Miller Indices > > I'm not sure about the Miller Indices, but subscripts, > superscripts, Greek, German, French characters can be done > using the character map. It is a bit clumsy--but some of the > main characters have keyboard shortcuts. Go to programs, > Accessories, system tools, Character map and there are a > plethora of characters. Using Arial Unicode MS, most all are > available. Don H and I have been working on an Access > mineral database and I have included in it a way to very > easily add those characters to the various description > fields. I will check about the Miller Indices characters and > will add them also for the next version update. > > We are currently on Version 1? 0.123456789 ? A°¹³45678? > > You can also create your own characters that can then be used > using the Private Character editor. In fact, it would be a > good deal of help to me to know what kind of special > characters one might want to use in reference to mineral > collecting. I have included the following to my character map > dialog for the program. I need to know what others would be > useful and desirable. > > 0123456789?1??°¹ ² ³45678???? ?¼?½?¾? G??TS?Oaß?e??µp? ? ? > ? ? ?? 8?v?Ä°µg £ € £ > > Tommy Armstrong > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Maurice de > > Graaf > > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 2:54 PM > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fonts for Miller Indices > > > > No, I don't, but I'm wondering if someone also knows hor to make > > subscribt (chemical formula's) in MS Access. :-) > > > > Cheers, > > Maurice > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Michael D. > > McCormack > > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 9:27 PM > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Fonts for Miller Indices > > > > > > Does anyuone know if there are Truetype fonts available to > print out > > Miller indices with bar indices? Also a font for printing > out mineral > > formulas? > > Thanks in advance for your help. > > > > Mike > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 9 18:49:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Pete Richards) Date: Fri Jan 9 18:49:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fonts for Miller Indices In-Reply-To: <200401100103.i0A13IIG010566@mxsf27.cluster1.charter.net> References: Message-ID: I heard of someone who used a program (Fontographer or something like that?) to define a special version of a true-type font that had superior bars included over the numbers. Probably option-3 was 3 with a bar over it, etc. Of course, every time you want a superior bar, you have to use this font, and if you change the font globally, the bar goes away and you get pound signs and daggars and other things instead! It might almost be as cumbersome as using the Word formula editor every time you need a Miller index. Groan! Because of portability issues, I have chosen not to use explicit subscripts in my databases for mineral formulas. Instead, I use 9 point type for those numbers while the rest of the formula (including the number of waters of hydration) is in 12 point type. It's a bit of a compromise, but it works fine for me. Pete Richards At 8:05 PM -0500 1/9/04, Tommy Armstrong wrote: >I'm not sure about the Miller Indices, but subscripts, superscripts, Greek, German, French characters can be done using the character map. It is a bit clumsy--but some of the main characters have keyboard shortcuts. Go to programs, Accessories, system tools, Character map and there are a plethora of characters. Using Arial Unicode MS, most all are available. Don H and I have been working on an Access mineral database and I have included in it a way to very easily add those characters to the various description fields. I will check about the Miller Indices characters and will add them also for the next version update. > >We are currently on Version 1’Çç ’ÇÄ.’ÇÅ’ÇÇ’ÇÉ’ÇÑ’ÇÖ’ÇÜ’Çá’Çà’Çâ ’Çé A’Ѭ¼¬„’Å¥’ŵ’Å’Å…’Ž’ż > >You can also create your own characters that can then be used using the Private Character editor. In fact, it would be a good deal of help to me to know what kind of special characters one might want to use in reference to mineral collecting. I have included the following to my character map dialog for the program. I need to know what others would be useful and desirable. > >’ÇÄ’ÇÅ’ÇÇ’ÇÉ’ÇÑ’ÇÖ’ÇÜ’Çá’Çà’Çâ’Çä’ÇÅ’Çç’Çé’Ѭ¼ ¬¾ ¬„’Å¥’ŵ’Å’Å…’Ž’ż’ņ’Çç’Çé ’Öõ¬º’Öú¬‡’Öù¬æ’Öû ‘ì‘Ý‘î‘ò‘£‘®‘©‘±‘¾‘„‘µ‘‘ª¬µ¦Ä‘ô ’Üê ’Üí ’Üë ’Üì ’áÜ’áÜ ’àû’à*’àö’⣈Ѭƒ¬µg ¬£ ’Ǩ ’ǧ > >Tommy Armstrong > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com >> [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of >> Maurice de Graaf >> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 2:54 PM >> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fonts for Miller Indices >> >> No, I don't, but I'm wondering if someone also knows hor to >> make subscribt (chemical formula's) in MS Access. :-) >> >> Cheers, >> Maurice >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com >> [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Michael D. >> McCormack >> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 9:27 PM >> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >> Subject: [Rockhounds] Fonts for Miller Indices >> >> >> Does anyuone know if there are Truetype fonts available to >> print out Miller indices with bar indices? Also a font for >> printing out mineral formulas? >> Thanks in advance for your help. >> >> Mike >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 9 19:19:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Fri Jan 9 19:19:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amethyst vs. Amethystine Message-ID: <268C931F.15DA5B54.0A970CBF@aol.com> The adjective "amethystine" is sometimes applied in lapidary circles to purple varieties of agate -- there apparently being some question as to whether purple chalcedony qualifies as actual amethyst. Other varieties called amethystine agate contain bands or zones of macrocrystalline amethyst interspersed with the bands of agate, which may be white (as in sowbelly agate from Creede, CO) or pink (as in the old-time Mexican material, which I believe came from Durango). Bill Barr Ann Arbor, Michigan "Will Work For Minerals" From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 9 19:31:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Fri Jan 9 19:31:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fonts for Miller Indices Message-ID: I found one font, Palatino Linotype, that has small numbers in the low position or in the high position, suitable for use a subscripts and superscripts. In Window's characer map, select advanced view, then select 'group by - unicode subrange' and select super/subscripts, you will have to copy and paste. I have done something similar in MSAccess, using a macro to examine formulas, and then replace the appropriate characters. I have also found a hidden application, Private Character Editor, which you can use to create your own characters, and so create your own Miller indice font, run the program eucdedit.exe to do this.from the c;\windows\system32 directory Jeff --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 9 19:45:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Fri Jan 9 19:45:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amethyst vs. Amethystine References: <268C931F.15DA5B54.0A970CBF@aol.com> Message-ID: <005e01c3d72c$47846e20$86a5490c@pete> I think Bill Barr's has been the best answer as to what "amethystine" is actually used to mean. I don't believe there is any true "amethyst-colored" agate. As he says about the sowbelly agate, there is sometimes an interbanding between thin layers of finely crystalline amethyst, and whitish agate. Pete Modreski ----- Original Message ----- From: > The adjective "amethystine" is sometimes applied in lapidary circles to purple varieties of agate -- there apparently being some question as to whether purple chalcedony qualifies as actual amethyst. > > Other varieties called amethystine agate contain bands or zones of macrocrystalline amethyst interspersed with the bands of agate, which may be white (as in sowbelly agate from Creede, CO) or pink (as in the old-time Mexican material, which I believe came from Durango). > > Bill Barr > Ann Arbor, Michigan > "Will Work For Minerals" > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Jan 10 01:26:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Italian Minerals) Date: Sat Jan 10 01:26:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD - Ebay items Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20040110101801.024a6500@popmail.libero.it> Hi there friends, new items on Ebay at very low starting bid price ! auricalcite, atacamite, qiartz crystals, realgar, barite and vesuvianite. Nice crystals ! have fun ! Goto: http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=italianminerals&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=25 You can visit us also at: http://www.italianminerals.com/ Best regards and have a wonderful 2004 ! ItalianMinerals.com stuff ============================= Italian Minerals http://www.italianminerals.com quality minerals from Italy and worldwide ============================= From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Jan 10 07:56:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sat Jan 10 07:56:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fonts for Miller Indices References: Message-ID: <003f01c3d791$f6506700$e18b4c0c@fekib> ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Pete Richards=20 To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com=20 Cc: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com=20 Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 9:48 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fonts for Miller Indices I heard of someone who used a program (Fontographer or something like = that?) to define a special version of a true-type font that had superior = bars included over the numbers. Probably option-3 was 3 with a bar over = it, etc. Of course, every time you want a superior bar, you have to use = this font, and if you change the font globally, the bar goes away and = you get pound signs and daggars and other things instead! It might = almost be as cumbersome as using the Word formula editor every time you = need a Miller index. Groan! Because of portability issues, I have chosen not to use explicit = subscripts in my databases for mineral formulas. Instead, I use 9 point = type for those numbers while the rest of the formula (including the = number of waters of hydration) is in 12 point type. It's a bit of a = compromise, but it works fine for me. Pete Richards ----------------------------------------------------------- Pete: A bit off subject, but I was impressed by your chart of the = isometric forms in the "gold" issue of Rocks and Minerals. It grapically = displays a subject that often baffles newcomers to crystallography, that = being how habits are physically related to each other in a system and = how the transitions occur between the classes. Have you done this for = the other systems, and if so, where can I get copies? I would recommend Pete's chart to anyone as an easy-to-grasp learning = device in mineralogy. Larry Rush --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 11 19:26:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Jan 11 19:26:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Powers of Ten Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040111174425.02689ec0@mail.aloha.net> Hi all, A physics teacher notified us of this website, and it is fun. Aloha, Kitty http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/scienceopticsu/powersof10/index --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 12 05:29:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon Jan 12 05:29:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Powers of Ten Message-ID: <011220041328.12811.7ee1@att.net> You hit a gold mine there! If you go to the home page of that site, you will find a wealth of educational material about microscopy and imaging. The site is professionally produced and the interactive tutorials make it stand out. Many microscopists will point you to this site when asked for information. If you use, or plan to use, a microscope in conjunction with minerals, this site will elevate your level of knowledge in a short time. Don > Hi all, > > A physics teacher notified us of this website, and it is fun. > > Aloha, Kitty > > http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/scienceopticsu/powersof10/index > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004 > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > text/plain (text body -- kept) > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 12 06:24:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Gary Brown) Date: Mon Jan 12 06:24:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Powers of Ten In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040111174425.02689ec0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <013c01c3d917$94580ee0$6701a8c0@moose> The "Eames Video" about powers-of-ten is the progenitor of this. I picked up a copy of it at the American Museum of Natural History last year. And, yes, for those of you that are into interior design... Same couple that did the "Eames Chair". What's neat on the Eames video is that you see the original storyboard, then the "prototype" film, and then the final film. See: ' http://www.boxesandarrows.com/archives/002320.php Thanks, Kitty, for the Java version. Cool Stuff. GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Kitty & Bill Heacox > Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 9:47 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Powers of Ten > > > Hi all, > > A physics teacher notified us of this website, and it is fun. > > Aloha, Kitty > http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/scienceopticsu/powersof10/index From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 12 09:37:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Jan 12 09:37:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] volcano spattering Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040112075322.009fa1c0@mail.aloha.net> Hi Group, There's new spattering in the crater at Pu'u O'o. It's worth clicking on to see the detail on some of the photos in the following site: http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/main.html Aloha, Kitty --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 12 10:54:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Gary Brown) Date: Mon Jan 12 10:54:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] MasMils/PLUS Documentation In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040112075322.009fa1c0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <000d01c3d93d$640864d0$6701a8c0@moose> I've gotten a couple of queries from people about the fields in the MasMils/PLUS system. So..... I've converted one of the original USBM documents into a PDF file and added it to the MasMils section on my site: http://www.catspaw-minerals.com/Masmils%20PLUS.htm Click on the "Masmils Data Defines" in the button list on the left to get a link to the PDF. Enjoy! Regards, Gary Brown http://www.catspaw-minerals.com Home of the MasMils/PLUS Mine Location Disk From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 12 15:41:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Jan 12 15:41:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Powers of Ten References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040111174425.02689ec0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <40033074.62E@Tomaszewski.net> Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > Hi all, > > A physics teacher notified us of this website, and it is fun. > > Aloha, Kitty > > http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/scienceopticsu/powersof10/index The original 'powers of ten' video by Eames is still one of the best science videos I have ever seen. It, the book, and a new interactive CD are available at powersoften.com. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 12 20:23:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon Jan 12 20:23:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geode formation? Message-ID: Hey guys, I was wondering what different ways geodes form? The length of time, it takes to form them. Do some form quickly in some areas than others(in Geological terms) and what geologically do you look for in finding them? What states are the better ones found? Any favorites out there? I have a basic theory of my own but I know there are batter ones out there. Thanks, Kevin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 12 21:39:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Mon Jan 12 21:39:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geode formation? References: Message-ID: <007801c3d997$bb442400$16a4490c@pete> Like gold, geodes are "where you find them". Actually, there are certain states & areas where geodes are abundant--some of the Central states for geodes in sedimentary rock, and certain western states for geodes in volcanic rock (Oregon; Dugway, Utah; Deming, New Mexico; as well as Chihuahua, Mexico, and Brazil). Exactly how geodes form is still partly a mystery. They start out (the volcanic type) as gas bubbles in the lava, and then if conditions are right, the hollow bubbles get an interior lining of silica, which makes them weather out into hard round nodules. How long they take to form is the least understood question--nobody really knows, because there is no real way at present to measure how long it took them to grow. Pete M. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 9:22 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Geode formation? > > Hey guys, > > I was wondering what different ways geodes form? The length of time, it > takes to form them. Do some form quickly in some areas than others(in Geological > terms) and what geologically do you look for in finding them? What states > are the better ones found? Any favorites out there? I have a basic theory of my > own but I know there are batter ones out there. > Thanks, > Kevin > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 13 08:56:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jan 13 08:56:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Powers of Ten References: <013c01c3d917$94580ee0$6701a8c0@moose> Message-ID: <007801c3d9f6$13cb2b10$089c77d5@axel> Last year I went to a lecture about electron microscopy at the Antwerp University. The nicest comparison I ever heard about the extremes of the powers of ten: a nanometer is approximately how much a supertanker would sink deeper in the water if a mosquito landed on it. Neat hmm? Great site Kitty! Thanks Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Brown" To: Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 3:22 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Powers of Ten The "Eames Video" about powers-of-ten is the progenitor of this. I picked up a copy of it at the American Museum of Natural History last year. And, yes, for those of you that are into interior design... Same couple that did the "Eames Chair". What's neat on the Eames video is that you see the original storyboard, then the "prototype" film, and then the final film. See: ' http://www.boxesandarrows.com/archives/002320.php Thanks, Kitty, for the Java version. Cool Stuff. GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Kitty & Bill Heacox > Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 9:47 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Powers of Ten > > > Hi all, > > A physics teacher notified us of this website, and it is fun. > > Aloha, Kitty > http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/scienceopticsu/powersof10/index _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 13 09:03:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Meyer, Bill J KRT-KRT) Date: Tue Jan 13 09:03:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Locations in the UK Message-ID: Greetings list, I will be traveling to the UK in a couple of weeks for business and am wondering if there is anything of interest, rock shops, museums or just neat geology that warrant a look see if one was to get a chance. I will be in London then on to Manchester and spending the days in Preston. Thanks, Bill Bill Meyer KRATON LIQUID(R) Polymers 3333 Hwy 6 So. Room CR-132 Houston TX 77082 281-668-3204 bill.meyer@kraton.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 13 11:28:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Rik Dillen) Date: Tue Jan 13 11:28:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hematite + magnetite In-Reply-To: <008901c3d5a9$353bb2c0$d2a4490c@pete> Message-ID: <004b01c3da0b$3fbea520$6712f251@maxdata> Thanks, Pete, for your advice ! Best regards, Rik DILLEN *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Peter *J. Modreski *Sent: donderdag 8 januari 2004 6:35 *To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com *Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Hematite + magnetite * * *Rik, * *Fairly large, solid crystals of pure hematite are fairly *common from Brazil. I believe they are the source of the *polished hematite beads that one often sees. I've seen (and *purchased samples of) nice solid, tumbled-polished pieces of *such hematite at rock shops and mineral shows, often for just *$1 or so for a 1- or 2-inch size piece; you should be able to *find some without too much difficulty--probably the polished *lumps are even more generally available, than the crystal specimens. * *Pete Modreski * *----- Original Message ----- *From: "Rik Dillen" *To: "Rockhounds" *Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 1:15 PM *Subject: [Rockhounds] Hematite + magnetite * * *> Dear friends, *> *> This time I have a job-related request. *> For calibration of our GD-OES (glow discharge optical emission *spectrometer) for oxygen (target : phase determination with depth *> profiling on oxidised sheet steel) we are after a solid *piece of VERY *> PURE *hematite, and one of magnetite. *> I think that the best purity would be guaranteed in a large single *> crystal *of each mineral. We should be able to reveal a polished *> cross section of at least about 1.5 X 1.5 cm that is free of *> inclusions *and/or cavities. * *_______________________________________________ *Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List *WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds *Subscription Services: *http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds * * From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 13 11:47:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Gary Brown) Date: Tue Jan 13 11:47:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hematite + magnetite In-Reply-To: <004b01c3da0b$3fbea520$6712f251@maxdata> Message-ID: <008401c3da0d$dfdf28c0$6701a8c0@moose> You have to be careful, though, because a lot (if not most, from what I've read in a number of jewelry catalogs) of the "hematite" is really a manufactured stone called "hemalyke". Looks almost identical. Soooooo.... Make sure you get "real" rough and not the man (person?) made material. GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Rik Dillen > Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 1:27 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Hematite + magnetite > > > Thanks, Pete, for your advice ! > Best regards, > > Rik DILLEN > > > *-----Original Message----- > *From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > *[mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Peter > *J. Modreski > *Sent: donderdag 8 januari 2004 6:35 > *To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > *Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Hematite + magnetite > * > * > *Rik, > * > *Fairly large, solid crystals of pure hematite are fairly > *common from Brazil. I believe they are the source of the > *polished hematite beads that one often sees. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 13 12:06:20 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (JOHN STOCKWELL) Date: Tue Jan 13 12:06:20 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geode formation? References: Message-ID: A few of us are working hard to establish a working nomenclature. We = begin by insisting that thundereggs NEVER be referred to as "geodes" = only; if thundereggs are partly hollow, then we call them "geoidal = thundereggs." This allows us to distinguish thundereggs, which have a = very unique and complex formational history from two other principal = types of geodes: "Keokuk" and "Uruguayan." The former are those which = are siliceous replacements of anhydrite nodules formed in a sedimentary = environment, those found in the Warsaw Formation and others in the Iowa, = Illinois, Missouri, and Indiana area (also Kentucky and a few other states). The = latter are those like the "cathedrals" from Uruguay formed in a manner = similar to amygdaloidal agates (Condor, Lake Superior, etc.) in basic = (commonly basalt) volcanic rocks, the filling of vesicules (gas = "pockets") frozen in the cooling magma.=20 So there are two different types of "pure" geodes, and then there are = geoidal thundereggs. The specimens from Deming are thundereggs. If = partly hollow they are geoidal thundereggs. Thundereggs NEVER form in = basalt, only in rhyolitic volcanic rocks, either flows or welded tuffs. = AND they do not form as the filling of vesicules. Rather, = spherulites/lithophysae form in the rhyolitic host rock, with an opening = (later filled with agate, etc.) in the SPHERULITE forming later. = Evidently the mechanism by which the spherulite opens is driven by the = pressure of volatiles released as the minerals forming the spherulite = crystallize. There is much more detail of course. In the last year I given talks on = all of this at the American Gemmological Institute (first John Sinkankas = Quartz Symposium), Stanford University, and a number of northern = California rock clubs. Check out Robert Colburn ("Geode Kid") on the net. I'd be glad to provide a few other references. John ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Paintricks@aol.com=20 To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com=20 Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 8:22 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Geode formation? Hey guys, =20 I was wondering what different ways geodes form? The length of time, = it=20 takes to form them. Do some form quickly in some areas than others(in = Geological=20 terms) and what geologically do you look for in finding them? What = states=20 are the better ones found? Any favorites out there? I have a basic = theory of my=20 own but I know there are batter ones out there. Thanks, Kevin =20 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 13 13:01:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Tue Jan 13 13:01:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hematite Message-ID: <011320042100.23135.5681@att.net> And Rik, re. the availability of (real) hematite, There was just a fairly small local mineral show here at one of the shopping malls in Denver, and I saw that several of the dealers had specimens of crystalline hematite for sale, that probably would have been the sort to meet your needs. I believe they were all from Ouro Preto, M.G., Brazil, and some are more solid, thick crystals such as you would want, as opposed to the "iron rose" type clusters of thinner, platy crystals. I believe a specimen in the 1.5-2.0 inch (please forgive me for using English units!) size range could be found for around $25-$50 or so. So, if you need it, I'm sure you'll be able to find such material from your local sources or over the internet, too. Sincerely, Pete From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 13 13:15:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Andy Parker) Date: Tue Jan 13 13:15:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Locations in the UK In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99n800doe802lougel827t7vtecfunj4sb@4ax.com> Bill Natural History Museum in London is an obvious choice - years since I went! www.manchesterminerals.co.uk might be on your route - nothing special there imho. I am 50 miles or so North of Preston so if you just want to talk rocks... off list if you like. Blue John (Fluorite) mines in Castleton, derbyshire are fun but query opening in January - online at http://www.bluejohn-cavern.co.uk/cav.htm Have fun even if it is work and bring a raincoat ! Andy Parker, Agate House Lapidary Ulverston, Cumbria, England andy@agatehouse.co.uk www.agatehouse.co.uk Tel: 01229 584023 From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 13 13:27:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Tue Jan 13 13:27:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geode formation? Message-ID: <011320042126.23790.6fcf@att.net> John, I appreciated reading your good comments on geodes vs. thundereggs; you gave a good summary of this, and clearly pointed out the difference between the two (a distinction I didn't attempt to make at all in my brief comments that I sent to this list yesterday!). I and some friends/colleagues here spent some time "worrying about" and debating this matter of thundereggs and spherulites, a year ago when we had talks at our Friends of Mineralogy-sponsored symposium in Denver on Gemstone Deposits of the Rocky Mountain Region, and in connection with the paper that Dan Kile gave at the symposium, also the subject of his much longer article in Rocks & Minerals last summer, "Occurrence and genesis of thunder eggs containing plume and moss agate from the Del Norte area, Saguache County, Colorado". A slightly amusing (?) note about names, when Dan wrote that article he chose to call the nodules "Thunder Eggs", preferring the two-word instead of the one-word form of the name. (We had debated about that, too, both have been used almost equally in print, but Dan felt that Thunder Egg "had priority" because that's what some of the earliest papers tended to use. Then, when the article was edited for publication in Rocks & Minerals, Marie Huizing, the magazine's esteemed (and highly talented and dedicated) editor, insisted that according to the proper rules of grammer which Heldref Publications tries to strictly adhere to, whenever the term is used as a modifier, it should be hyphenated; thus, throughout Dan's article, the usage switches back and forth between saying "The Del Norte thunder eggs..." and "The Del Norte thunder-egg beds are...", which I'm sure looked odd to the reader (as if no one proof read it for consistency) but which supposedly was correct English usage, not that we liked seeing it that way! And John, a final note, the theme of the September 2005 Denver Gem & Mineral Show is going to be "Crystalline and Cryptocrystalline Quartz", and the FM- Colorado Chapter is planning to sponsor a mineralogical symposium there the week before the mineral show starts, on the theme of cryptocrystalline quartz. I'm looking forward to a program of talks on this topic, partly because the few talks we had about this at our 2002 symposium, pointed out how many unanswered and controversial questions there are, regarding the formation of agates, thundereggs, and related quartz formations. So, I wanted to mention this as an advance note particularly to you, John, that perhaps we can get back in touch with you as to whether your calendar for that year might permit you to be in Denver for and before the show, and consider giving a talk at our symposium. best regards, Pete Modreski, pjmodreski@att.net or pmodreski@usgs.gov > A few of us are working hard to establish a working nomenclature. We begin by > insisting that thundereggs NEVER be referred to as "geodes" only; if thundereggs > are partly hollow, then we call them "geoidal thundereggs." This allows us to > distinguish thundereggs, which have a very unique and complex formational > history from two other principal types of geodes: "Keokuk" and "Uruguayan." The > former are those which are siliceous replacements of anhydrite nodules formed in > a sedimentary environment, those found in the Warsaw Formation and others in the > Iowa, Illinois, > Missouri, and Indiana area (also Kentucky and a few other states). The latter > are those like the "cathedrals" from Uruguay formed in a manner similar to > amygdaloidal agates (Condor, Lake Superior, etc.) in basic (commonly basalt) > volcanic rocks, the filling of vesicules (gas "pockets") frozen in the cooling > magma. > > So there are two different types of "pure" geodes, and then there are geoidal > thundereggs. The specimens from Deming are thundereggs. If partly hollow they > are geoidal thundereggs. Thundereggs NEVER form in basalt, only in rhyolitic > volcanic rocks, either flows or welded tuffs. AND they do not form as the > filling of vesicules. Rather, spherulites/lithophysae form in the rhyolitic host > rock, with an opening (later filled with agate, etc.) in the SPHERULITE forming > later. Evidently the mechanism by which the spherulite opens is driven by the > pressure of volatiles released as the minerals forming the spherulite > crystallize. > > There is much more detail of course. In the last year I given talks on all of > this at the American Gemmological Institute (first John Sinkankas Quartz > Symposium), Stanford University, and a number of northern California rock clubs. > > Check out Robert Colburn ("Geode Kid") on the net. > > I'd be glad to provide a few other references. > > John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paintricks@aol.com > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 8:22 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Geode formation? > > > > Hey guys, > > I was wondering what different ways geodes form? The length of time, it > takes to form them. Do some form quickly in some areas than others(in > Geological > terms) and what geologically do you look for in finding them? What states > are the better ones found? Any favorites out there? I have a basic theory of > my > own but I know there are batter ones out there. > Thanks, > Kevin > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 13 14:16:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (JOHN STOCKWELL) Date: Tue Jan 13 14:16:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geode formation? References: <011320042126.23790.6fcf@att.net> Message-ID: Pete, I appreciate your comments. Hyphenated (!) is a new one to me! Frazier = and Mustart (circa 1990, Lapidary Journal) come down on the side of = thunder egg. I use thundereggs, because actually I think that has = precedence, but it may not. Also, to my ear, although when I stop to = analyze I don't know why, thunderegg suggests it's not REALLY an egg, = whereas thunder egg does. I've read Kile's paper. It's good, I think, especially as a summary of = what's been advanced in the literature. The Germans were recording these = objects as early as about 1750 and theorizing, as were the French, = Hungarians, and English, starting about 1850. Bryan and Kay in Australia = come along in the early part of the 20th. I've also collected in = Colorado at both Saguache and Del Norte, having Dick's (Dick's Rock = Shop, Estes Park) permission. One of my prize specimens is from Middle Keweenawan rocks near Grand = Marais, MN. I'd be glad to speak in Denver. Please keep in touch, as early as = possible. Cryptocrystalline quartz seems on balance to be mostly ignored = in American academia, quite in contrast with Germany. Terry Moxon has been attempting to work out a way of dating agate = itself, but I fear it will not be possible. If it were, then the = question about "how long" might be answered. Of course, that's separate = from how long it took the spherulite to form and then at what point in = its developmental process the cavity opened and how fast that opening = occurred. John ----- Original Message -----=20 From: pjmodreski@att.net=20 To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com=20 Cc: pmodreski@usgs.gov=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geode formation? John, I appreciated reading your good comments on geodes vs. thundereggs; = you gave=20 a good summary of this, and clearly pointed out the difference between = the=20 two (a distinction I didn't attempt to make at all in my brief = comments that=20 I sent to this list yesterday!). I and some friends/colleagues here spent some time "worrying about" = and=20 debating this matter of thundereggs and spherulites, a year ago when = we had=20 talks at our Friends of Mineralogy-sponsored symposium in Denver on = Gemstone=20 Deposits of the Rocky Mountain Region, and in connection with the = paper that=20 Dan Kile gave at the symposium, also the subject of his much longer = article=20 in Rocks & Minerals last summer, "Occurrence and genesis of thunder = eggs=20 containing plume and moss agate from the Del Norte area, Saguache = County,=20 Colorado". A slightly amusing (?) note about names, when Dan wrote that article = he chose=20 to call the nodules "Thunder Eggs", preferring the two-word instead of = the=20 one-word form of the name. (We had debated about that, too, both have = been=20 used almost equally in print, but Dan felt that Thunder Egg "had = priority"=20 because that's what some of the earliest papers tended to use. Then, = when=20 the article was edited for publication in Rocks & Minerals, Marie = Huizing,=20 the magazine's esteemed (and highly talented and dedicated) editor, = insisted=20 that according to the proper rules of grammer which Heldref = Publications=20 tries to strictly adhere to, whenever the term is used as a modifier, = it=20 should be hyphenated; thus, throughout Dan's article, the usage = switches back=20 and forth between saying "The Del Norte thunder eggs..." and "The Del = Norte=20 thunder-egg beds are...", which I'm sure looked odd to the reader (as = if no=20 one proof read it for consistency) but which supposedly was correct = English=20 usage, not that we liked seeing it that way! And John, a final note, the theme of the September 2005 Denver Gem & = Mineral=20 Show is going to be "Crystalline and Cryptocrystalline Quartz", and = the FM- Colorado Chapter is planning to sponsor a mineralogical symposium = there the=20 week before the mineral show starts, on the theme of cryptocrystalline = quartz. I'm looking forward to a program of talks on this topic, = partly=20 because the few talks we had about this at our 2002 symposium, pointed = out=20 how many unanswered and controversial questions there are, regarding = the=20 formation of agates, thundereggs, and related quartz formations. So, = I=20 wanted to mention this as an advance note particularly to you, John, = that=20 perhaps we can get back in touch with you as to whether your calendar = for=20 that year might permit you to be in Denver for and before the show, = and=20 consider giving a talk at our symposium. best regards, Pete Modreski, pjmodreski@att.net or pmodreski@usgs.gov > A few of us are working hard to establish a working nomenclature. We = begin by=20 > insisting that thundereggs NEVER be referred to as "geodes" only; if = thundereggs=20 > are partly hollow, then we call them "geoidal thundereggs." This = allows us to=20 > distinguish thundereggs, which have a very unique and complex = formational=20 > history from two other principal types of geodes: "Keokuk" and = "Uruguayan." The=20 > former are those which are siliceous replacements of anhydrite = nodules formed in=20 > a sedimentary environment, those found in the Warsaw Formation and = others in the=20 > Iowa, Illinois, > Missouri, and Indiana area (also Kentucky and a few other states). = The latter=20 > are those like the "cathedrals" from Uruguay formed in a manner = similar to=20 > amygdaloidal agates (Condor, Lake Superior, etc.) in basic (commonly = basalt)=20 > volcanic rocks, the filling of vesicules (gas "pockets") frozen in = the cooling=20 > magma.=20 >=20 > So there are two different types of "pure" geodes, and then there = are geoidal=20 > thundereggs. The specimens from Deming are thundereggs. If partly = hollow they=20 > are geoidal thundereggs. Thundereggs NEVER form in basalt, only in = rhyolitic=20 > volcanic rocks, either flows or welded tuffs. AND they do not form = as the=20 > filling of vesicules. Rather, spherulites/lithophysae form in the = rhyolitic host=20 > rock, with an opening (later filled with agate, etc.) in the = SPHERULITE forming=20 > later. Evidently the mechanism by which the spherulite opens is = driven by the=20 > pressure of volatiles released as the minerals forming the = spherulite=20 > crystallize. >=20 > There is much more detail of course. In the last year I given talks = on all of=20 > this at the American Gemmological Institute (first John Sinkankas = Quartz=20 > Symposium), Stanford University, and a number of northern California = rock clubs. >=20 > Check out Robert Colburn ("Geode Kid") on the net. >=20 > I'd be glad to provide a few other references. >=20 > John > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: Paintricks@aol.com=20 > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com=20 > Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 8:22 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Geode formation? >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hey guys, > =20 > I was wondering what different ways geodes form? The length of = time, it=20 > takes to form them. Do some form quickly in some areas than = others(in=20 > Geological=20 > terms) and what geologically do you look for in finding them? = What states=20 > are the better ones found? Any favorites out there? I have a = basic theory of=20 > my=20 > own but I know there are batter ones out there. > Thanks, > Kevin > =20 >=20 >=20 > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >=20 >=20 >=20 > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 13 15:56:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Lanny) Date: Tue Jan 13 15:56:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Book for sale - give away - throw in trash Message-ID: Hi all, I have to get rid of a lot mineral and geology related materials that are not being used (tired of stumbling over the boxes). One thing that came up is an unused, untouched, like new (is new except it is 8 years old) copy of "Ultrahigh Pressure Metamorphism" one of the Cambridge Topics in Petrology. Not much use for most humans, but those of you really into your geologic studies might find it a necessity for the geological library. I'm offering at the super low price of pay the postage or best offer. Probably a hundred dollar text/research book. Lanny From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 14 04:36:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Frank de Wit) Date: Wed Jan 14 04:36:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nikon / Canon Message-ID: <000c01c3da9a$f2fc36e0$897ba8c0@cm333814lt> Hi all, The Canon 300D is almost a standard camera already ;-) I know some people who already have and use the digicam, but = unfortinately not for mineral macro photography And now also Nikon shows up: See: http://www.nikon-d70.nl/nl/ and = http://www.dcviews.com/page.htm?_Nikon/d70m.htm Also on this camera you can use the AF-Nikkor lenses you already have... Some will like to read that I suppose :-) My question is: who already has experience here with mineral macro = photography with the Canon? Cheers! Frank http://www.strahlen.org/ http://www.untertage.com/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 14 08:22:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Wed Jan 14 08:22:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Thunder eggs (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:53:22 EST From: RJSSMITH@aol.com To: afox@drizzle.com Subject: Thunder eggs I went to a meeting on Memorial Day a few years ago in the prineville area. It was sponsored by a WA club. Is that still going on? Leo Smith From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 14 10:15:03 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Jan 14 10:15:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Thunder eggs (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040114101115.01e47238@mail.spiritone.com> You have to call Darrell Friend, he is in the book, under Ashwood OR. No one knows what is going on over there since the MT Hood Club (Gresham, OR) has not been involved...IMHO the Memorial Day dig ain't it used to be :( At 08:21 AM 1/14/2004, you wrote: >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:53:22 EST >From: RJSSMITH@aol.com >To: afox@drizzle.com >Subject: Thunder eggs > >I went to a meeting on Memorial Day a few years ago in the prineville area. >It was sponsored by a WA club. Is that still going on? >Leo Smith > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 14 12:08:20 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Lawrence Rush) Date: Wed Jan 14 12:08:20 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Story - A Tribute to Henry Message-ID: <000201c3dad9$dcc40c60$028b4c0c@fekib> =20 The Bittersweet Apophyllite =20 When I moved to Connecticut in the early 1960's, I met a retired = physician who was also interested in minerals, and we became collecting = friends. Henry was a quiet, dignified gentleman with a strong scientific = mind who appreciated the marvelous aspects of crystals and mineralogy. = At one point early in our friendship, he showed me an apophyllite = specimen that his son had acquired for him while traveling in Brazil. = While not a "world-class" piece, it was very nice, with two well-formed = lustrous 3cm crystals sitting in a hand-sized chunk of matrix. It was = appealing enough for me to make a light hearted attempt at humor by = suggesting that I would be happy to trade him some locally collected = poor quartz crystals for it. In typical fashion, he didn't ridicule this = joke, but just smiled and made some innocuous answer. But these silly = little remarks became the basis of a humorous tease that went on for = some 25 years to follow. Whenever we were together, while collecting, at = a club meeting, or just socializing, one of us would always try to have = a witty proposal ready for the other about the apophyllite. It might be = a dry comment about trading an old car, or the best piece in my = collection, or a favor, such as free lawn mowing for life, or whatever. = These quiet, sly exchanges sometimes consisted of only a few words, a = quick reference, or even a look or wink at the right time. We always = expected the other to have some new complicated scheme in the planning = stage that was related to my getting the coveted apophyllite. Our wives = were never sure what was going on with these oblique maneuverings, and = probably thought we were both a little crazed (and maybe we were!), = especially when the phone would ring at some odd hour, and it would be = Henry, wanting to spring some new insane swap scheme on me. We tried our = best (although not always successfully) to come up with novel, clever = plots to try out on each other, springing them on the other as surprise = moves! We used the telephone, greeting cards and telegrams, notes in a = bottle, anything we could to keep the plot interesting. And, obviously, = we never wanted to consummate the trade, only to keep the tease going! Henry died while on a trip in the 80's, and a short time later, I = learned that he had included in his will a mention of the apophyllite. = In his typical, soft spoken, dignified manner he had left the piece to = me. The almost constant lighthearted teasing of the past 25 years had = come to its end along with the life of my friend. He had managed to get the last joke in.=20 The apophyllite now sits in a prominent position in my collection. = Whenever I look at it, I remember Henry, and our long-term joke, and = realize that sometimes it is just those kind of silly interplays between = people that help make true, long lasting friendships. I know that I = won't part with this specimen in my lifetime, it has just too much of a = bittersweet memory attached to it. =20 Larry Rush Guilford, CT www.mineralstotrade.homestead.com "Noel Coward thought work was more fun than play,=20 but he never, ever worked in the mines" --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 14 12:21:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Jan 14 12:21:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Story - A Tribute to Henry In-Reply-To: <000201c3dad9$dcc40c60$028b4c0c@fekib> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040114103934.02393040@mail.aloha.net> What a wonderful story, Larry. Very well written. Since he died a long while ago, I wonder what prompted you to bring it up now? Whatever the reason, I'm glad you shared it. Aloha, Kitty At 09:44 AM 1/14/2004, you wrote: > >The Bittersweet Apophyllite > > > >When I moved to Connecticut in the early 1960's, I met a retired physician >who was also interested in minerals, and we became collecting friends. >Henry was a quiet, dignified gentleman with a strong scientific mind who >appreciated the marvelous aspects of crystals and mineralogy. At one point >early in our friendship, he showed me an apophyllite specimen that his son >had acquired for him while traveling in Brazil. While not a "world-class" >piece, it was very nice, with two well-formed lustrous 3cm crystals >sitting in a hand-sized chunk of matrix. It was appealing enough for me >to make a light hearted attempt at humor by suggesting that I would be >happy to trade him some locally collected poor quartz crystals for it. In >typical fashion, he didn't ridicule this joke, but just smiled and made >some innocuous answer. But these silly little remarks became the basis of >a humorous tease that went on for some 25 years to follow. Whenever we >were together, while collecting, at a club meeting, or just socializing, >one of us would always try to have a witty proposal ready for the other >about the apophyllite. It might be a dry comment about trading an old car, >or the best piece in my collection, or a favor, such as free lawn mowing >for life, or whatever. These quiet, sly exchanges sometimes consisted of >only a few words, a quick reference, or even a look or wink at the right >time. We always expected the other to have some new complicated scheme in >the planning stage that was related to my getting the coveted apophyllite. >Our wives were never sure what was going on with these oblique >maneuverings, and probably thought we were both a little crazed (and maybe >we were!), especially when the phone would ring at some odd hour, and it >would be Henry, wanting to spring some new insane swap scheme on me. We >tried our best (although not always successfully) to come up with novel, >clever plots to try out on each other, springing them on the other as >surprise moves! We used the telephone, greeting cards and telegrams, notes >in a bottl[Rockhounds] Story - A Tribute .ems >e, anything we could to keep the plot interesting. And, obviously, we >never wanted to consummate the trade, only to keep the tease going! > > Henry died while on a trip in the 80's, and a short time later, I > learned that he had included in his will a mention of the apophyllite. In > his typical, soft spoken, dignified manner he had left the piece to me. > The almost constant lighthearted teasing of the past 25 years had come to > its end along with the life of my friend. > >He had managed to get the last joke in. > > The apophyllite now sits in a prominent position in my collection. > Whenever I look at it, I remember Henry, and our long-term joke, and > realize that sometimes it is just those kind of silly interplays between > people that help make true, long lasting friendships. I know that I won't > part with this specimen in my lifetime, it has just too much of a > bittersweet memory attached to it. > > > >Larry Rush > >Guilford, CT > > > >www.mineralstotrade.homestead.com > > >"Noel Coward thought work was more fun than play, >but he never, ever worked in the mines" > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 14 17:16:26 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jan 14 17:16:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nikon / Canon References: <000c01c3da9a$f2fc36e0$897ba8c0@cm333814lt> Message-ID: <4005E76B.738A@Tomaszewski.net> Frank de Wit wrote: > > Hi all, > > The Canon 300D is almost a standard camera already ;-) > I know some people who already have and use the digicam, but unfortinately not for mineral macro photography > > And now also Nikon shows up: > See: http://www.nikon-d70.nl/nl/ and http://www.dcviews.com/page.htm?_Nikon/d70m.htm > Also on this camera you can use the AF-Nikkor lenses you already have... > Some will like to read that I suppose :-) > > My question is: who already has experience here with mineral macro photography with the Canon? > > Cheers! > Frank Hi Frank, I've had some experience shooting rocks with a Cannon. But its not going to help here because I use a old FX or SX body with a set of Cannon lenses. I'm wondering if anyone knows if I could use my Cannon lenses on a new Nikon digital body with one of the old Cannon/Nikon adapter rings? The one Cannon body I found that could take my lenses was professional megapixels (it took NICE pictures) but had a professional pricetag. I'de like to find something less expensive. Kreigh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 14 17:18:14 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Wed Jan 14 17:18:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geode formation? In-Reply-To: <011320042126.23790.6fcf@att.net> Message-ID: <20040115010830.86B46EA8A30@delivery.infowest.com> While we're on this subject, may I chime in with a question about something similar but no doubt formed quite differently? In Zion N. P. (and throughtout the Navajo Sandstone country) we find soome spherical rock formations that are commonly called Moqui Marbles". They have a sandstone center, and an outside "rind", usually about 3-4mm thick, of much harder darker hematite-rich sandstone. We know that some layers of the hematite-rich material were laid down sometime during the time the Navajo was being formed, but it was apparently in relatively flat layers -- these layers form the hard caps of the 'hoodoos'. I have never found a (satisfactory, at least to me) explanation of just how the spherical Moqui Marbles were formed.?? Can anyone answer this one? Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of pjmodreski@att.net Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 2:26 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Cc: pmodreski@usgs.gov Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geode formation? _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 14 17:54:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (John Siebel) Date: Wed Jan 14 17:54:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Story - A Tribute to Henry References: <000201c3dad9$dcc40c60$028b4c0c@fekib> Message-ID: <004201c3daf8$f1a6f060$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Sweet story Larry. Thank you. John Santa, Idaho From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 14 18:50:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jan 14 18:50:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geode formation? (Moqui Marbles) References: <20040115010830.86B46EA8A30@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: <4005FFB2.6768@Tomaszewski.net> Margaret, I encountered the Moqui Marble 'concretion' in 2000 at JRs Rock Shop, Post Falls, Idaho. Bob and his wife worked with a couple local college profs for three years studying and researching their formation and he gave me the explanation that follows. It is the best one I've heard so I use it. Moqui marbles are concretions of iron and usually have a sandstone center stained red or yellow from iron. The Navaho Sandstone formation that produces Moqui Marbles was laid down at the beginning of the Jurassic era approximately 190 million years ago. Moqui Marbles probably formed at a time when the original sand dunes that later became the Navaho formation was under a sea. The iron in the marbles was probably from unstable Limonite, which forms a gel under pressure. Undersea volcanic venting produced bubbles in the Limonite gel, heat converted the Limonite to stable Hematite and iron which entrapped sand from the seabottom environment. Pressure on the cooling 'bubble' compressed the hematite into a hard and stable shell. Moqui Marbles are found in areas where the Navaho Sandstone formation has nearly eroded away and is again forming sand dunes. After weathering out of the sandstone they are wind polished. These 'fossil bubbles' are a real geological oddity. BTW, my specimen is a double, two 'bubbles' stuck together just like soap bubbles. Kreigh Margaret Malm wrote: > > While we're on this subject, may I chime in with a question about something > similar but no doubt formed quite differently? > > In Zion N. P. (and throughtout the Navajo Sandstone country) we find soome > spherical rock formations that are commonly called Moqui Marbles". They > have a sandstone center, and an outside "rind", usually about 3-4mm thick, > of much harder darker hematite-rich sandstone. We know that some layers of > the hematite-rich material were laid down sometime during the time the > Navajo was being formed, but it was apparently in relatively flat layers -- > these layers form the hard caps of the 'hoodoos'. I have never found a > (satisfactory, at least to me) explanation of just how the spherical Moqui > Marbles were formed.?? > Can anyone answer this one? > > Margaret From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 14 19:52:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Jan 14 19:52:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geode formation? In-Reply-To: <20040115010830.86B46EA8A30@delivery.infowest.com> References: <011320042126.23790.6fcf@att.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040114180728.023984b0@mail.aloha.net> We have some Moqui Marbles that I ordered from Andrew Romero at Coolrocks.com a couple of years ago. I haven't checked back to see if this info is still there, but at that time Andrew had the following posted: Aloha, Kitty (Andrew Romero): I recently received a note about Moqui Marbles from website visitor Dave Cosby, a geologist who has been doing some research on the area where Moqui Marbles are found in the US. Dave believes that the marbles were formed as the result of a meteor impact in the area. He wrote: "This material was formed in an impact site 12 miles east of Escalante UT in an area known as 'Big Spencer Flat'. The 'marbles' are composed of millions of molten spheres condensing on sand grains that bumped into and joined with other grains to form small spheres that joined with others to become even larger, with the hematite/silica coating always moving to the outside, but leaving a thin coat on most sand grains inside. Some larger spheres cooled below the melting point during this process, so all steps of it can be seen. Some 'marbles' landed in sand, others in limestone, and some have joined in almost every way imaginable. Most of the crater has eroded away, but the remnants of dikes created in the impact are still visible." At 03:08 PM 1/14/2004, you wrote: >While we're on this subject, may I chime in with a question about something >similar but no doubt formed quite differently? > >In Zion N. P. (and throughtout the Navajo Sandstone country) we find soome >spherical rock formations that are commonly called Moqui Marbles". They >have a sandstone center, and an outside "rind", usually about 3-4mm thick, >of much harder darker hematite-rich sandstone. We know that some layers of >the hematite-rich material were laid down sometime during the time the >Navajo was being formed, but it was apparently in relatively flat layers -- >these layers form the hard caps of the 'hoodoos'. I have never found a >(satisfactory, at least to me) explanation of just how the spherical Moqui >Marbles were formed.?? >Can anyone answer this one? > >Margaret > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of pjmodreski@att.net >Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 2:26 PM >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Cc: pmodreski@usgs.gov >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geode formation? > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 14 22:05:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Wed Jan 14 22:05:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui Marbles (Geode formation) References: <20040115010830.86B46EA8A30@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: <003f01c3db2d$a4a083a0$3ca5490c@pete> Well, Margaret, this is a good one! Before I attempted to give some probably lame-sounding explanation, I was curious what other (better) ones might be offered. The one about meteorite droplets--that is really pretty fanciful, I don't think there is any real evidence for any part of that scenario. Now, the origin sequence recounted by Kreigh; well, it sounds a little shaky in places. I don't think there is any real evidence for "volcanic venting" in these strata. As I started to say, my "lame" explanation would just have to do with dissolved iron being transported through that permeable Navajo Sandstone horizon, and for some reason (unknown, at least to me), being deposited around certain nuclei within the sandstone, and thus cementing the sand grains to form iron oxide-rich concretions. The reason for the nuclei of deposition--who know? Fossil remains perhaps? Bacterial colonies?... Maybe the exact "why" for this, should just remain one of those little mysteries of nature, that just causes things to be where they happen to be, and that's that! Pete Modreski From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 04:31:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Anita Westlake) Date: Thu Jan 15 04:31:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Story - A Tribute to Henry References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040114103934.02393040@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <400687F5.000013.01140@anitaw.library.emory.edu> Such a sweet story, and so well written. I even cried (and let me tell yo= u: I'm no silly sentimentalist, so that's saying something!)=0D =0D Your point about simple things making such wonderful memories was well ta= ken I think Life is pretty much made up of these seemingly inconsequential events that become the benchmarks of our lives.=0D =0D Anita=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com=0D Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 03:21:10 PM=0D To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com=0D Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Story - A Tribute to Henry=0D =0D What a wonderful story, Larry. Very well written. Since he died a long =0D while ago, I wonder what prompted you to bring it up now? Whatever the =0D reason, I'm glad you shared it.=0D =0D Aloha, Kitty=0D =0D =0D At 09:44 AM 1/14/2004, you wrote:=0D =0D >=0D >The Bittersweet Apophyllite=0D >=0D >=0D >=0D >When I moved to Connecticut in the early 1960's, I met a retired physici= an =0D >who was also interested in minerals, and we became collecting friends. =0D >Henry was a quiet, dignified gentleman with a strong scientific mind who= =0D >appreciated the marvelous aspects of crystals and mineralogy. At one poi= nt =0D >early in our friendship, he showed me an apophyllite specimen that his s= on =0D >had acquired for him while traveling in Brazil. While not a "world-class= " =0D >piece, it was very nice, with two well-formed lustrous 3cm crystals =0D >sitting in a hand-sized chunk of matrix. It was appealing enough for me = =0D >to make a light hearted attempt at humor by suggesting that I would be =0D >happy to trade him some locally collected poor quartz crystals for it. I= n =0D >typical fashion, he didn't ridicule this joke, but just smiled and made = =0D >some innocuous answer. But these silly little remarks became the basis o= f =0D >a humorous tease that went on for some 25 years to follow. Whenever we =0D >were together, while collecting, at a club meeting, or just socializing,= =0D >one of us would always try to have a witty proposal ready for the other = =0D >about the apophyllite. It might be a dry comment about trading an old ca= r, =0D >or the best piece in my collection, or a favor, such as free lawn mowing= =0D >for life, or whatever. These quiet, sly exchanges sometimes consisted of= =0D >only a few words, a quick reference, or even a look or wink at the right= =0D >time. We always expected the other to have some new complicated scheme i= n =0D >the planning stage that was related to my getting the coveted apophyllit= e. =0D >Our wives were never sure what was going on with these oblique =0D >maneuverings, and probably thought we were both a little crazed (and may= be =0D >we were!), especially when the phone would ring at some odd hour, and it= =0D >would be Henry, wanting to spring some new insane swap scheme on me. We = =0D >tried our best (although not always successfully) to come up with novel,= =0D >clever plots to try out on each other, springing them on the other as =0D >surprise moves! We used the telephone, greeting cards and telegrams, not= es =0D >in a bottl[Rockhounds] Story - A Tribute .ems=0D >e, anything we could to keep the plot interesting. And, obviously, we =0D >never wanted to consummate the trade, only to keep the tease going!=0D >=0D > Henry died while on a trip in the 80's, and a short time later, I =0D > learned that he had included in his will a mention of the apophyllite. = In =0D > his typical, soft spoken, dignified manner he had left the piece to me.= =0D > The almost constant lighthearted teasing of the past 25 years had come = to =0D > its end along with the life of my friend.=0D >=0D >He had managed to get the last joke in.=0D >=0D > The apophyllite now sits in a prominent position in my collection. =0D > Whenever I look at it, I remember Henry, and our long-term joke, and =0D > realize that sometimes it is just those kind of silly interplays betwee= n =0D > people that help make true, long lasting friendships. I know that I won= 't =0D > part with this specimen in my lifetime, it has just too much of a =0D > bittersweet memory attached to it.=0D >=0D >=0D >=0D >Larry Rush=0D >=0D >Guilford, CT=0D >=0D >=0D >=0D >www.mineralstotrade.homestead.com=0D >=0D >=0D >"Noel Coward thought work was more fun than play,=0D >but he never, ever worked in the mines"=0D >=0D >=0D >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---=0D >multipart/alternative=0D > text/plain (text body -- kept)=0D > text/html=0D >---=0D >_______________________________________________=0D >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List=0D >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds=0D >Subscription Services:=0D >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds=0D >=0D >=0D >---=0D >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.=0D >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).=0D >Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004=0D =0D =0D ---=0D Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.=0D Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).=0D Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004=0D =0D =0D --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---=0D multipart/mixed=0D text/plain (text body -- kept)=0D text/plain (text body -- kept)=0D ---=0D _______________________________________________=0D Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List=0D WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds=0D Subscription Services:=0D http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds=0D =2E=20 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/gif image/jpeg --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 06:21:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Thomas Yancey) Date: Thu Jan 15 06:21:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: Moqui marbles, was Geode formation? In-Reply-To: <20040115010830.86B46EA8A30@delivery.infowest.com> References: <20040115010830.86B46EA8A30@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: Margaret, I also waited a while before commenting, because my thoughts are less exciting than some of the other comments provided about origin of such objects. I agree with Pete Modreski that the 'Moqui marbles' are small concretions that have formed in the sandstone, and he pointed out that they weather free from the ancient dune sands and get polished by winds as they lie on the ground surface. This probably explains their attractive appearance. I have been fortunate enough to have seen many types and shapes of concretions over the years and the 'Moqui marbles' are not too different from concretions found in other areas. Concretions form in a rock after it has been produced: deposited if it is a sediment, hardened if it is volcanic. So the concretions replace or enclose material already present. You mentioned that the Moqui marbles contain sand in the middle, indicating that they formed within the sandstone after it had been deposited. Because they have an outer layer of iron oxide, the iron compounds moved through the sand to precipitate on the edge of the nodule. Precipitation of the iron compounds is a chemical reaction, controlled by the chemistry of the site. This is where the story gets less exciting, because it involves movement of dissolved materials in a sediment or rock body. This is very ordinary, since groundwater is constantly moving through all soil and rock and sediment, even at depth, carrying lots of dissolved compounds, of which iron oxide compounds are almost always present. When the iron compounds encounter a change in chemical conditions, it can precipitate. For the Moqui marble concretions, the dissolved iron compounds appear to have precipitated on the edge of a spherical area with different chemistry, sealing the sphere of sand with a shell of iron oxides. The sphere was probably one of different oxidation-reduction conditions. You no doubt have seen such 'reduction spheres' in redbed deposits, where small spherical areas were never stained with red iron oxides, because the reduced chemical conditions did not allow such precipitation. (Probably because of some organic material present; now gone.) Or change in color along fractures - an oxidation-reduction effect. If this type of chemical barrier causes precipitation only on that surface, the iron oxides form a shell, thus creating the 'Moqui marble' condition. Let the sediment erode and the iron oxide shells are released and weather out to lay on the ground surface. Wind polishing can then create a shiny ball. The discussion of iron compounds moving through the sediment is important for considering the origin of flat iron oxide layers in the sandstone. It is very likely that the flat layers were formed long after the sand was deposited, by the same general mechanism as that forming the concretions. A chemical boundary along which the iron oxides precipitated. The original layer did not have to be iron oxide-rich; it merely needed to have a different lithology that could produce different chemistry after deposition, allowing precipitation of dissolved iron oxide compounds. This general mechanism is responsible for the formation of bog iron ore deposits, a concentration of iron oxides that was often mined as an ore. The story of concretions is one of chemical change in a rock or sediment material. Not as dramatic as some stories, but still very interesting. Tom Yancey >While we're on this subject, may I chime in with a question about something >similar but no doubt formed quite differently? > >In Zion N. P. (and throughtout the Navajo Sandstone country) we find soome >spherical rock formations that are commonly called Moqui Marbles". They >have a sandstone center, and an outside "rind", usually about 3-4mm thick, >of much harder darker hematite-rich sandstone. We know that some layers of >the hematite-rich material were laid down sometime during the time the >Navajo was being formed, but it was apparently in relatively flat layers -- >these layers form the hard caps of the 'hoodoos'. I have never found a >(satisfactory, at least to me) explanation of just how the spherical Moqui >Marbles were formed.?? >Can anyone answer this one? > >Margaret From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 07:11:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Van) Date: Thu Jan 15 07:11:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Wild at eBay References: <000c01c3da9a$f2fc36e0$897ba8c0@cm333814lt> <4005E76B.738A@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <003001c3db79$a7782320$c3ff4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> For those of you who were drolling about the Wild microscope, there is currently a Wild M* and other scopes and accessories on eBay. You'll probably want to pick up some extra eyepieces also. Note the Wild M8 seems to be incomplete in some way and is being sold "as is", but still at a heck of a price. Maybe the phototube has no objective? Can't tell from photo. You'll get all of the Wild accessory listings if you just search "Wild microscope". If anyone is missing an accessory or eyepiece, you can create a "Frankenscope". Note many eyepieces can be interchanged between brands. If you're short something a bit of research might get you what you need. FYI Van From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 07:34:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Thu Jan 15 07:34:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Story - A Tribute to Henry In-Reply-To: <000201c3dad9$dcc40c60$028b4c0c@fekib> References: <000201c3dad9$dcc40c60$028b4c0c@fekib> Message-ID: <4006B2E3.2030508@tenforward.com> Dear Larry, This is one of the best pieces I've read in a very long time and I am very thankful that you've taken the time to share. Like Anita, I found your paper to be quite real and emotion filled. I'll keep this paper archived. Thank you, John Lawrence Rush wrote: > >The Bittersweet Apophyllite > > > >When I moved to Connecticut in the early 1960's, I met a retired physician who was also interested in minerals, and we became collecting friends. Henry was a quiet, dignified gentleman with a strong scientific mind who appreciated the marvelous aspects of crystals and mineralogy. At one point early in our friendship, he showed me an apophyllite specimen that his son had acquired for him while traveling in Brazil. While not a "world-class" piece, it was very nice, with two well-formed lustrous 3cm crystals sitting in a hand-sized chunk of matrix. It was appealing enough for me to make a light hearted attempt at humor by suggesting that I would be happy to trade him some locally collected poor quartz crystals for it. In typical fashion, he didn't ridicule this joke, but just smiled and made some innocuous answer. But these silly little remarks became the basis of a humorous tease that went on for some 25 years to follow. Whenever we were together, while collecting, at a club meeting, or just socializing, one of us would always try to have a witty proposal ready for the other about the apophyllite. It might be a dry comment about trading an old car, or the best piece in my collection, or a favor, such as free lawn mowing for life, or whatever. These quiet, sly exchanges sometimes consisted of only a few words, a quick reference, or even a look or wink at the right time. We always expected the other to have some new complicated scheme in the planning stage that was related to my getting the coveted apophyllite. Our wives were never sure what was going on with these oblique maneuverings, and probably thought we were both a little crazed (and maybe we were!), especially when the phone would ring at some odd hour, and it would be Henry, wanting to spring some new insane swap scheme on me. We tried our best (although not always successfully) to come up with novel, clever plots to try out on each other, springing them on the other as surprise moves! We used the telephone, greeting cards and telegrams, notes in a bottle, anything we could to keep the plot interesting. And, obviously, we never wanted to consummate the trade, only to keep the tease going! > > Henry died while on a trip in the 80's, and a short time later, I learned that he had included in his will a mention of the apophyllite. In his typical, soft spoken, dignified manner he had left the piece to me. The almost constant lighthearted teasing of the past 25 years had come to its end along with the life of my friend. > >He had managed to get the last joke in. > > The apophyllite now sits in a prominent position in my collection. Whenever I look at it, I remember Henry, and our long-term joke, and realize that sometimes it is just those kind of silly interplays between people that help make true, long lasting friendships. I know that I won't part with this specimen in my lifetime, it has just too much of a bittersweet memory attached to it. > > > >Larry Rush > >Guilford, CT > > > >www.mineralstotrade.homestead.com > > >"Noel Coward thought work was more fun than play, >but he never, ever worked in the mines" > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 07:46:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Jan 15 07:46:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Story - A Tribute to Henry In-Reply-To: <4006B2E3.2030508@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <00ed01c3db7e$a34890f0$6701a8c0@moose> Of course, we need to say that Larry has "passed it on..." (Not to be confused with "passed on"!!) Although it has been a number of years since I've been able to get up to Connecticut to go collecting with Larry, those times he took me with him into the field were absolutely wonderful! Having him walk me though his collection was a real treat. His generosity and kindnesses to me made me glad to be in this hobby! Gary > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of John > and Gloria Cornish > Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 9:34 AM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Story - A Tribute to Henry > > > Dear Larry, > > This is one of the best pieces I've read in a very long time ... From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 07:52:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Thu Jan 15 07:52:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Precipitation chemistry,was: Moqui marbles, was Geode ? Message-ID: <3a.43604e9a.2d381104@aol.com> Tom, Thank you for the very graphic explanation. I assume that this explanation also applies to the red stripes and arrays of spots seen in (Australian?) Zebra stone. It is relatively easy to see how a precipitation region could be generated in a spherical shape, (a gradient generated by a simple point source at the center), but the alternation of layers and spots is a little trickier. Do you know how such patterns arise? > Margaret, > > I also waited a while before commenting, because my thoughts are less > exciting than some of the other comments provided about origin of > such objects. I agree with Pete Modreski that the 'Moqui marbles' are > small concretions that have formed in the sandstone, and he pointed > out that they weather free from the ancient dune sands and get > polished by winds as they lie on the ground surface. This probably > explains their attractive appearance. I have been fortunate enough to > have seen many types and shapes of concretions over the years and the > 'Moqui marbles' are not too different from concretions found in other > areas. > > Concretions form in a rock after it has been produced: deposited if > it is a sediment, hardened if it is volcanic. So the concretions > replace or enclose material already present. You mentioned that the > Moqui marbles contain sand in the middle, indicating that they formed > within the sandstone after it had been deposited. Because they have > an outer layer of iron oxide, the iron compounds moved through the > sand to precipitate on the edge of the nodule. Precipitation of the > iron compounds is a chemical reaction, controlled by the chemistry of > the site. > > This is where the story gets less exciting, because it involves > movement of dissolved materials in a sediment or rock body. This is > very ordinary, since groundwater is constantly moving through all > soil and rock and sediment, even at depth, carrying lots of dissolved > compounds, of which iron oxide compounds are almost always present. > When the iron compounds encounter a change in chemical conditions, it > can precipitate. For the Moqui marble concretions, the dissolved iron > compounds appear to have precipitated on the edge of a spherical area > with different chemistry, sealing the sphere of sand with a shell of > iron oxides. > > The sphere was probably one of different oxidation-reduction > conditions. You no doubt have seen such 'reduction spheres' in redbed > deposits, where small spherical areas were never stained with red > iron oxides, because the reduced chemical conditions did not allow > such precipitation. (Probably because of some organic material > present; now gone.) Or change in color along fractures - an > oxidation-reduction effect. If this type of chemical barrier causes > precipitation only on that surface, the iron oxides form a shell, > thus creating the 'Moqui marble' condition. Let the sediment erode > and the iron oxide shells are released and weather out to lay on the > ground surface. Wind polishing can then create a shiny ball. > > The discussion of iron compounds moving through the sediment is > important for considering the origin of flat iron oxide layers in the > sandstone. It is very likely that the flat layers were formed long > after the sand was deposited, by the same general mechanism as that > forming the concretions. A chemical boundary along which the iron > oxides precipitated. The original layer did not have to be iron > oxide-rich; it merely needed to have a different lithology that could > produce different chemistry after deposition, allowing precipitation > of dissolved iron oxide compounds. This general mechanism is > responsible for the formation of bog iron ore deposits, a > concentration of iron oxides that was often mined as an ore. > > The story of concretions is one of chemical change in a rock or > sediment material. Not as dramatic as some stories, but still very > interesting. > > Tom Yancey > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 08:43:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Juergen Wachsmuth) Date: Thu Jan 15 08:43:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Locations in the UK References: Message-ID: <4006C30F.CCAA315B@gmx.de> Hello, the museum in London (Natural History) and its mineralogical collection is well worth a visit. Especially the old exhibition; it should be still accessible despite the opening of a new exhibition. I was there before that event and cannot comment on that one. People told me it is a little bit too dark around the new showcases. Regards, Jürgen Wachsmuth Ulm - Germany Meyer, Bill J KRT-KRT schrieb: > Greetings list, > I will be traveling to the UK in a couple of weeks for business and am > wondering if there is anything of interest, rock shops, museums or just neat > geology that warrant a look see if one was to get a chance. I will be in > London then on to Manchester and spending the days in Preston. > Thanks, > Bill > > Bill Meyer > KRATON LIQUID(R) Polymers > 3333 Hwy 6 So. Room CR-132 > Houston TX 77082 > 281-668-3204 > bill.meyer@kraton.com > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 08:49:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Bob G) Date: Thu Jan 15 08:49:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geode formation? In-Reply-To: <20040115010830.86B46EA8A30@delivery.infowest.com> References: <20040115010830.86B46EA8A30@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: <4006C454.9020703@netscape.net> I'm not familiar with the "Moqui Marbles" but the Dakota Badlands have many iron concretions, often referred to as sand balls and there is even a Cannonball Formation. The Saskatchewan, Canada bureau of geology has a pamphlet, circa 1970, on the formation of the concretions. As I recall most are attributed to Fe++ <=> Fe+++ transitions initiated by groundwater acting on very small amounts of organic matter that are at the center (not always seen). The organic matter oxidizes getting electrons from the Fe+++ changing it into the more soluble Fe++ which then can migrate outward with the shape influenced by migration paths. Some of the sand balls will also have some yellow traces which might be a sign of bacterial action. Bob G kadok@infowest.com wrote: >While we're on this subject, may I chime in with a question about something >similar but no doubt formed quite differently? > >In Zion N. P. (and throughtout the Navajo Sandstone country) we find soome >spherical rock formations that are commonly called Moqui Marbles". They >have a sandstone center, and an outside "rind", usually about 3-4mm thick, >of much harder darker hematite-rich sandstone. We know that some layers of >the hematite-rich material were laid down sometime during the time the >Navajo was being formed, but it was apparently in relatively flat layers -- >these layers form the hard caps of the 'hoodoos'. I have never found a >(satisfactory, at least to me) explanation of just how the spherical Moqui >Marbles were formed.?? >Can anyone answer this one? > >Margaret > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of pjmodreski@att.net >Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 2:26 PM >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Cc: pmodreski@usgs.gov >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geode formation? > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 08:50:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Bob G) Date: Thu Jan 15 08:50:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geode formation? In-Reply-To: <20040115010830.86B46EA8A30@delivery.infowest.com> References: <20040115010830.86B46EA8A30@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: <4006C483.1050703@netscape.net> I'm not familiar with the "Moqui Marbles" but the Dakota Badlands have many iron concretions, often referred to as sand balls and there is even a Cannonball Formation. The Saskatchewan, Canada bureau of geology has a pamphlet, circa 1970, on the formation of the concretions. As I recall most are attributed to Fe++ <=> Fe+++ transitions initiated by groundwater acting on very small amounts of organic matter that are at the center (not always seen). The organic matter oxidizes getting electrons from the Fe+++ changing it into the more soluble Fe++ which then can migrate outward with the shape influenced by migration paths. Some of the sand balls will also have some yellow traces which might be a sign of bacterial action. Bob G kadok@infowest.com wrote: >While we're on this subject, may I chime in with a question about something >similar but no doubt formed quite differently? > >In Zion N. P. (and throughtout the Navajo Sandstone country) we find soome >spherical rock formations that are commonly called Moqui Marbles". They >have a sandstone center, and an outside "rind", usually about 3-4mm thick, >of much harder darker hematite-rich sandstone. We know that some layers of >the hematite-rich material were laid down sometime during the time the >Navajo was being formed, but it was apparently in relatively flat layers -- >these layers form the hard caps of the 'hoodoos'. I have never found a >(satisfactory, at least to me) explanation of just how the spherical Moqui >Marbles were formed.?? >Can anyone answer this one? > >Margaret > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of pjmodreski@att.net >Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 2:26 PM >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Cc: pmodreski@usgs.gov >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geode formation? > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 08:57:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (earleyne mulroney) Date: Thu Jan 15 08:57:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Enquiry from a Canadian Rockhound Message-ID: <3FFF453A.000003.02976@your-lk4rlmsu41> Dear Margaret First let me introduce myself, We are Dave and Earleyne Mulroney from British Columbia, Canada. we found your email address on the web. Dave is an avid Rockhound, and we are planning a trip to Wa in Sept and Oct/04. We are hoping that you may be able to give some contact address for rock hound clubs in Wa. as we would like to contact them and see if there is anyone who may be interested in an exchange of recreational vehicles with us. We have spent a fair amount of time In Aus, and feel it is almost a second home. We did an exchange in 98 with friends in Qlds, for 6 months and it worked very well, so we are hoping to do the same in Wa for shorter period of time. We were in Aus 78 and 91/92.and have travelled extensively, and loved every minute of it. Thank you for any assistance you may be able to give us. Sincerely Dave and Earleyne Mulroney 3236 Hewstone Rd., Nanaimo, B. C. Canada, V9X 1W8 email early.bird@shaw.ca --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/gif image/jpeg --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 08:57:10 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (gc brown) Date: Thu Jan 15 08:57:10 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mars Message-ID: <00f401c3da2b$d52c3940$6701a8c0@moose> I don't know about you folks, but I am getting blown away EVERY day by = those images from Mars. Just think. Rover takes a picture.back to earth.on = my desktop in HOURS. Looking at the most recent shots at http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html , it's like being there. Super resolution. *sigh* I want to GO! Gary Brown http://www.catspaw-minerals.com Home of MasMils/PLUS Mine Location Disk PS. Don't you just expect to see a cactus or something? Even a tiny lichen... --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 08:57:18 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Dolly Shueh) Date: Thu Jan 15 08:57:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hawaii Orchestra 27 yrs ago Message-ID: <20040114031537.52304.qmail@web10506.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, My name is Dolly and I am trying to locate a friend of my father. I was going through the old file cabinets and found some letters dated about 27 years ago. They were all from friends that my dad met in an Orechestra in Hawaii. I though it would be fun to find this people for dad. One of the letters was from you, Gary Truesdail, and the return address on the envelop is 5320 Sanywood Court, Carmichael, CA. The letter inside is gone. Oh, and my dad's name is Sherman Shueh. I really hope that you are the person I am looking for. I look forward to hearing back from you. Dolly --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 09:09:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (jb) Date: Thu Jan 15 09:09:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui Marbles Message-ID: <4006BF48.7030906@hal-pc.org> As Donald L Baars points out in his book "The Colorado Plateau", the Navajo Sandstone consists almost entirely of wind-blown dunes, with local playas. Some of the playas were long-lasting enough to form thin local carbonate rock strata. It would seem likely that the iron concretions were formed around these playas, perhaps by percolation from below. Once released, the same winds that formed the original rock would round and polish them. The forms are very uncommon but the concretion type is not. As for volcanos or meteors, well, the Colorado Plateau has been the one long term stable structure in the region, and there is no evidence of shock quartz or impact residue. The prosaic explanation is most likely the correct one. Ah, well, even long eons of time can produce spectacular results. john From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 09:43:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Thu Jan 15 09:43:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geode formation? (Moqui Marbles) In-Reply-To: <4005FFB2.6768@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <20040115174231.CD115EAADD0@delivery.infowest.com> Thanks, Kreigh. That sounds like about as logical as any explanation I have heard for this. I had not heard the part about limonite becoming a gel under pressure. And there were volcanoes in this area. And we still have layers of limonite, usually pretty well up towards the tops of the cliffs on the east side of Zion. Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kreigh Tomaszewski Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 7:56 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geode formation? (Moqui Marbles) Margaret, I encountered the Moqui Marble 'concretion' in 2000 at JRs Rock Shop, Post Falls, Idaho. Bob and his wife worked with a couple local college profs for three years studying and researching their formation and he gave me the explanation that follows. It is the best one I've heard so I use it. Moqui marbles are concretions of iron and usually have a sandstone center stained red or yellow from iron. The Navaho Sandstone formation that produces Moqui Marbles was laid down at the beginning of the Jurassic era approximately 190 million years ago. Moqui Marbles probably formed at a time when the original sand dunes that later became the Navaho formation was under a sea. The iron in the marbles was probably from unstable Limonite, which forms a gel under pressure. Undersea volcanic venting produced bubbles in the Limonite gel, heat converted the Limonite to stable Hematite and iron which entrapped sand from the seabottom environment. Pressure on the cooling 'bubble' compressed the hematite into a hard and stable shell. Moqui Marbles are found in areas where the Navaho Sandstone formation has nearly eroded away and is again forming sand dunes. After weathering out of the sandstone they are wind polished. These 'fossil bubbles' are a real geological oddity. BTW, my specimen is a double, two 'bubbles' stuck together just like soap bubbles. Kreigh Margaret Malm wrote: > > While we're on this subject, may I chime in with a question about something > similar but no doubt formed quite differently? > > In Zion N. P. (and throughtout the Navajo Sandstone country) we find soome > spherical rock formations that are commonly called Moqui Marbles". They > have a sandstone center, and an outside "rind", usually about 3-4mm thick, > of much harder darker hematite-rich sandstone. We know that some layers of > the hematite-rich material were laid down sometime during the time the > Navajo was being formed, but it was apparently in relatively flat layers -- > these layers form the hard caps of the 'hoodoos'. I have never found a > (satisfactory, at least to me) explanation of just how the spherical Moqui > Marbles were formed.?? > Can anyone answer this one? > > Margaret _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 09:46:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Thu Jan 15 09:46:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Enquiry from a Canadian Rockhound Message-ID: <6f.40b25cc5.2d382bcd@aol.com> Regarding the inquiry about Washington Clubs, hope this link is helpful: http://www.facetersco-op.com/zabinski/Clubs/Washington.html -Ron http://www.hammerron.com/minerals In a message dated 1/15/2004 11:57:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, early.bird@shaw.ca writes: Dear Margaret First let me introduce myself, We are Dave and Earleyne Mulroney from British Columbia, Canada. we found your email address on the web. Dave is an avid Rockhound, and we are planning a trip to Wa in Sept and Oct/04. We are hoping that you may be able to give some contact address for rock hound clubs in Wa. as we would like to contact them and see if there is anyone who may be interested in an exchange of recreational vehicles with us. We have spent a fair amount of time In Aus, and feel it is almost a second home. We did an exchange in 98 with friends in Qlds, for 6 months and it worked very well, so we are hoping to do the same in Wa for shorter period of time. We were in Aus 78 and 91/92.and have travelled extensively, and loved every minute of it. Thank you for any assistance you may be able to give us. Sincerely Dave and Earleyne Mulroney 3236 Hewstone Rd., Nanaimo, B. C. Canada, V9X 1W8 email early.bird@shaw.ca --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/gif image/jpeg --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 09:57:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Thu Jan 15 09:57:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geode formation? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040114180728.023984b0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <20040115175610.8D18FEA9D9C@delivery.infowest.com> OHO! Thanks, Kitty. It appears to me that the Moqui Marbles from Big Spencer Flat may be different; may have formed in a different way than the ones around Zion. As far as I/we know, we haven't had any meteors impacting in the Zion area. (But lots of volcanic activity, such as Kreigh suggests). And how would the coating manage to always migrate toward the outside? Heavier material should tend to move *down*. Unless there was some sort of centrifugal action going on in the sphere. ?? Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill Heacox Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 9:13 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Geode formation? We have some Moqui Marbles that I ordered from Andrew Romero at Coolrocks.com a couple of years ago. I haven't checked back to see if this info is still there, but at that time Andrew had the following posted: Aloha, Kitty (Andrew Romero): I recently received a note about Moqui Marbles from website visitor Dave Cosby, a geologist who has been doing some research on the area where Moqui Marbles are found in the US. Dave believes that the marbles were formed as the result of a meteor impact in the area. He wrote: "This material was formed in an impact site 12 miles east of Escalante UT in an area known as 'Big Spencer Flat'. The 'marbles' are composed of millions of molten spheres condensing on sand grains that bumped into and joined with other grains to form small spheres that joined with others to become even larger, with the hematite/silica coating always moving to the outside, but leaving a thin coat on most sand grains inside. Some larger spheres cooled below the melting point during this process, so all steps of it can be seen. Some 'marbles' landed in sand, others in limestone, and some have joined in almost every way imaginable. Most of the crater has eroded away, but the remnants of dikes created in the impact are still visible." At 03:08 PM 1/14/2004, you wrote: >While we're on this subject, may I chime in with a question about something >similar but no doubt formed quite differently? > >In Zion N. P. (and throughtout the Navajo Sandstone country) we find soome >spherical rock formations that are commonly called Moqui Marbles". They >have a sandstone center, and an outside "rind", usually about 3-4mm thick, >of much harder darker hematite-rich sandstone. We know that some layers of >the hematite-rich material were laid down sometime during the time the >Navajo was being formed, but it was apparently in relatively flat layers -- >these layers form the hard caps of the 'hoodoos'. I have never found a >(satisfactory, at least to me) explanation of just how the spherical Moqui >Marbles were formed.?? >Can anyone answer this one? > >Margaret > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of pjmodreski@att.net >Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 2:26 PM >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Cc: pmodreski@usgs.gov >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geode formation? > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 10:11:14 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Don H) Date: Thu Jan 15 10:11:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geode formation? References: <20040115175610.8D18FEA9D9C@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: <4006D8A5.153C36B6@att.net> Margaret Malm wrote: > > And how would the coating manage to always migrate toward the outside? > Heavier material should tend to move *down*. Unless there was some sort of > centrifugal action going on in the sphere. > ?? > Margaret It may not be a case of gravitational migration so much as a case of chemistry; i.e., that is where the particular reaction occurs. Temperature and pressure may have played a role, but more importantly you might consider solutional saturation, evaporation, as well as capillary action, among others. In chemical microscopy, we are taught to look for the reaction product on the borderline between two droplets of different solutions where they just meet. This is where the concentrations are correct for the chemical reaction to occur and for the product to accrete heterogeneously; i.e, like substances clumping together to bring crystal growth. Remember, if the position of substances were dependent only on gravity, the mercury would never rise, a thick sponge dropped in a thin layer of water would never be wet on top, and those cool & colorful growths that form on coal from salt solutions (didn't you do this when you were a kid?) would never occur. Have fun, Don From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 10:14:05 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Thu Jan 15 10:14:05 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui Marbles (Geode formation) In-Reply-To: <003f01c3db2d$a4a083a0$3ca5490c@pete> Message-ID: <20040115181346.17349EA7DBF@delivery.infowest.com> Thanks, Pete. Your explanation sounds pretty much like the other ones I've had from my Geology profs etc. We do get layers of the Hematite-rich material, as I said, but they are in fairly flat layers. My problem is just understanding what causes it to end up in nodules sometimes. They are usually pretty regularly round (although some of the larger ones tend to be flattish), and are weathering out of the sandstone. So deposition around some nucleus seems to be logical. But I have never seen even a hint, in any of the many broken ones I have observed, of anything that might form a deposition nucleus. The fossil remains we are finding here (both plant and animal) are not in the Navajo. I agree with you regarding the exact "why". But try to explain that to a visitor on a geology walk! Cheers! Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Peter J. Modreski Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 11:06 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Moqui Marbles (Geode formation) Well, Margaret, this is a good one! Before I attempted to give some probably lame-sounding explanation, I was curious what other (better) ones might be offered. The one about meteorite droplets--that is really pretty fanciful, I don't think there is any real evidence for any part of that scenario. Now, the origin sequence recounted by Kreigh; well, it sounds a little shaky in places. I don't think there is any real evidence for "volcanic venting" in these strata. As I started to say, my "lame" explanation would just have to do with dissolved iron being transported through that permeable Navajo Sandstone horizon, and for some reason (unknown, at least to me), being deposited around certain nuclei within the sandstone, and thus cementing the sand grains to form iron oxide-rich concretions. The reason for the nuclei of deposition--who know? Fossil remains perhaps? Bacterial colonies?... Maybe the exact "why" for this, should just remain one of those little mysteries of nature, that just causes things to be where they happen to be, and that's that! Pete Modreski _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 10:26:43 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Mel Albright) Date: Thu Jan 15 10:26:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: Moqui marbles, was Geode formation? References: <20040115010830.86B46EA8A30@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: <007301c3db94$d74d3570$efb3950c@jessie> While not real round or polished, I have found similar concretions (rust and sandstone) here in Washington County OK. They are in a Pennsylvanian beach sand deposit. Mel Albright From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 10:35:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Mel Albright) Date: Thu Jan 15 10:35:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mars References: <00f401c3da2b$d52c3940$6701a8c0@moose> Message-ID: <008f01c3db96$29559dc0$efb3950c@jessie> I'd swear that's a hunk of petrified wood in center of the "Spirit is out of the gate" large version. Could it be?? Hmmm. Aw heck, no. Mel Albright ----- Original Message ----- From: "gc brown" To: "Rockhounds" ; "Rocksandfossils@Yahoogroups. Com" Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 5:20 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Mars > > I don't know about you folks, but I am getting blown away EVERY day by those > images from Mars. Just think. Rover takes a picture.back to earth.on my > desktop in HOURS. Looking at the most recent shots at > http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html , it's like being there. > Super resolution. *sigh* I want to GO! > > Gary Brown > http://www.catspaw-minerals.com > Home of MasMils/PLUS Mine Location Disk > > PS. Don't you just expect to see a cactus or something? Even a tiny > lichen... > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 10:56:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Thu Jan 15 10:56:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mars In-Reply-To: <008f01c3db96$29559dc0$efb3950c@jessie> Message-ID: And you can even see the curvature of the planet in that photo! It must be much smaller than we thought. HAHAHA Sorry, I couldn't resist... :-) Bob Loeffler -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Mel Albright Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 11:34 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mars I'd swear that's a hunk of petrified wood in center of the "Spirit is out of the gate" large version. Could it be?? Hmmm. Aw heck, no. Mel Albright ----- Original Message ----- From: "gc brown" To: "Rockhounds" ; "Rocksandfossils@Yahoogroups. Com" Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 5:20 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Mars > > I don't know about you folks, but I am getting blown away EVERY day by those > images from Mars. Just think. Rover takes a picture.back to earth.on my > desktop in HOURS. Looking at the most recent shots at > http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html , it's like being there. > Super resolution. *sigh* I want to GO! > > Gary Brown > http://www.catspaw-minerals.com > Home of MasMils/PLUS Mine Location Disk > > PS. Don't you just expect to see a cactus or something? Even a tiny > lichen... > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 11:01:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Lanny) Date: Thu Jan 15 11:01:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui Marbles (Geode formation) In-Reply-To: <003f01c3db2d$a4a083a0$3ca5490c@pete> References: <20040115010830.86B46EA8A30@delivery.infowest.com> <003f01c3db2d$a4a083a0$3ca5490c@pete> Message-ID: <1D1AA42A-478D-11D8-98FA-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Peter's explanation is what I've always accepted, the "Moqui marbles" appear to be just another concretion. I just wanted to comment that the idea of the meteor impact as the source for the iron has been around a long time. On a geology field trip from my college days (after continental drift began, but a long time before today), we were given that meteorite idea as one of the possibilities. After a few years of experience in viewing rocks and studying/doing geology, I've never understood why such iron concretions/nodules/lumps, etc. seem to bother some geologists. Iron lumps of various forms are scattered all over the earth's crust as are various concretions in sedimentary rocks. Regards, Lanny On Jan 14, 2004, at 10:05 PM, Peter J. Modreski wrote: > Well, Margaret, this is a good one! Before I attempted to give some > probably lame-sounding explanation, I was curious what other (better) > ones > might be offered. > > The one about meteorite droplets--that is really pretty fanciful, I > don't > think there is any real evidence for any part of that scenario. > > Now, the origin sequence recounted by Kreigh; well, it sounds a little > shaky > in places. I don't think there is any real evidence for "volcanic > venting" > in these strata. > > As I started to say, my "lame" explanation would just have to do with > dissolved iron being transported through that permeable Navajo > Sandstone > horizon, and for some reason (unknown, at least to me), being deposited > around certain nuclei within the sandstone, and thus cementing the sand > grains to form iron oxide-rich concretions. The reason for the nuclei > of > deposition--who know? Fossil remains perhaps? Bacterial colonies?... > > Maybe the exact "why" for this, should just remain one of those little > mysteries of nature, that just causes things to be where they happen > to be, > and that's that! > > Pete Modreski > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > ****************************************** Lanny R. Ream - LR Ream Publishing Publisher of MinDex, the Mineral Locality - Mineral Periodical Index Idaho Minerals and other books; back issues of Mineral News www. LRReam.com ******************************************* From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 15:25:04 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Jim Daly) Date: Thu Jan 15 15:25:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Microminerals from Sauktown Sales Message-ID: <000801c3dbbd$29c0a9e0$355204d0@jim> I've just posted another update to my website, www.sauktown.com . I've = added the last of the field trip reports for 2003 (finally!), the Seneca = and Iroquois Mines in Keweenaw Co., MI New additions to the price list, in addition to material from those two = mines, are water-soluble minerals from Searles Lake, Trona, CA and the = Dexter #7 Mine, Emery Co., UT.=20 The Searles Lake material includes hanksite, gaylussite, borax and = tincalconite. From the Dexter #7 there is goldichite, halotrichite, = butlerite, coquimbite, roemerite and voltaite. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales Microminerals and mounting supplies http://www.sauktown.com orders@sauktown.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 15:49:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Thu Jan 15 15:49:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui Marbles In-Reply-To: <4006BF48.7030906@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: <20040115234733.E9995EA99B0@delivery.infowest.com> Hi, John- But this still doesn't explain why they are *round*. They are not just round sandstone balls (that came to be round who-knows-how); they have an outer covering of dark hematite, which appears to be the same material that also forms the *flat* caps of the hoodoos. The Moqui Marbles are weathering out of the cross-bedded Navajo sandstone. So I sahould think they must have been deposited there in the rounded and rind-covered form. BTW, the carbonate rock formations around Zion are found up *above* the Navajo. Yes, I agree that Peter's "prosaic explanation" is probably the correct one. And that eons can indeed produce quite spectacular results! Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of jb Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 9:27 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui Marbles As Donald L Baars points out in his book "The Colorado Plateau", the Navajo Sandstone consists almost entirely of wind-blown dunes, with local playas. Some of the playas were long-lasting enough to form thin local carbonate rock strata. It would seem likely that the iron concretions were formed around these playas, perhaps by percolation from below. Once released, the same winds that formed the original rock would round and polish them. The forms are very uncommon but the concretion type is not. As for volcanos or meteors, well, the Colorado Plateau has been the one long term stable structure in the region, and there is no evidence of shock quartz or impact residue. The prosaic explanation is most likely the correct one. Ah, well, even long eons of time can produce spectacular results. john _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 16:09:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Thu Jan 15 16:09:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Enquiry from a Canadian Rockhound In-Reply-To: <3FFF453A.000003.02976@your-lk4rlmsu41> Message-ID: <20040116000833.6D740EAB56D@delivery.infowest.com> Howdy, Mulroneys I live a lot further from Washington than you do, so I can't really give you any firsthand info. However, there are a whole bunch of other avid rockhounds on this list who live in Wash. & can. So I think the first thing to do is wait for one of them to answer you. If you don't get a bunch of responses, then I will do some digging and see what I can find out. OK? Also, you might check out the Bob's Rockshop site. I don't know how up to date their lists are, but -- You live in a lovely area of BC! Cheers! Margaret. p.s. -- it just occurred to me (from the rest of your e-mail) that when you say "Wa." perhaps you don't mean Washington? And if not so, -- where? Dear Margaret First let me introduce myself, We are Dave and Earleyne Mulroney from British Columbia, Canada. we found your email address on the web. Dave is an avid Rockhound, and we are planning a trip to Wa in Sept and Oct/04. We are hoping that you may be able to give some contact address for rock hound clubs in Wa. as we would like to contact them and see if there is anyone who may be interested in an exchange of recreational vehicles with us. We have spent a fair amount of time In Aus, and feel it is almost a second home. We did an exchange in 98 with friends in Qlds, for 6 months and it worked very well, so we are hoping to do the same in Wa for shorter period of time. We were in Aus 78 and 91/92.and have travelled extensively, and loved every minute of it. Thank you for any assistance you may be able to give us. Sincerely Dave and Earleyne Mulroney 3236 Hewstone Rd., Nanaimo, B. C. Canada, V9X 1W8 email early.bird@shaw.ca --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/gif image/jpeg --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 16:12:03 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Thu Jan 15 16:12:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geode formation? In-Reply-To: <4006C483.1050703@netscape.net> Message-ID: <20040116001135.21B67EA9BF9@delivery.infowest.com> Hmmm! Yet another possibility. What do you think, everyone? Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Bob G Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 9:49 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geode formation? I'm not familiar with the "Moqui Marbles" but the Dakota Badlands have many iron concretions, often referred to as sand balls and there is even a Cannonball Formation. The Saskatchewan, Canada bureau of geology has a pamphlet, circa 1970, on the formation of the concretions. As I recall most are attributed to Fe++ <=> Fe+++ transitions initiated by groundwater acting on very small amounts of organic matter that are at the center (not always seen). The organic matter oxidizes getting electrons from the Fe+++ changing it into the more soluble Fe++ which then can migrate outward with the shape influenced by migration paths. Some of the sand balls will also have some yellow traces which might be a sign of bacterial action. Bob G kadok@infowest.com wrote: >While we're on this subject, may I chime in with a question about something >similar but no doubt formed quite differently? > >In Zion N. P. (and throughtout the Navajo Sandstone country) we find soome >spherical rock formations that are commonly called Moqui Marbles". They >have a sandstone center, and an outside "rind", usually about 3-4mm thick, >of much harder darker hematite-rich sandstone. We know that some layers of >the hematite-rich material were laid down sometime during the time the >Navajo was being formed, but it was apparently in relatively flat layers -- >these layers form the hard caps of the 'hoodoos'. I have never found a >(satisfactory, at least to me) explanation of just how the spherical Moqui >Marbles were formed.?? >Can anyone answer this one? > >Margaret > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of pjmodreski@att.net >Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 2:26 PM >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Cc: pmodreski@usgs.gov >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geode formation? > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 16:21:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Thu Jan 15 16:21:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Precipitation chemistry,was: Moqui marbles, was Geode ? In-Reply-To: <3a.43604e9a.2d381104@aol.com> Message-ID: <20040116002021.C2C6AEA9B4D@delivery.infowest.com> Ah, yes. I think I see it now. My main problem was figuring out how the hematite could surround a spherical bit of sandstone (or sand). Many thanks, all. Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Bozo5@aol.com Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 8:52 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Precipitation chemistry,was: Moqui marbles, was Geode ? Tom, Thank you for the very graphic explanation. I assume that this explanation also applies to the red stripes and arrays of spots seen in (Australian?) Zebra stone. It is relatively easy to see how a precipitation region could be generated in a spherical shape, (a gradient generated by a simple point source at the center), but the alternation of layers and spots is a little trickier. Do you know how such patterns arise? > Margaret, > > I also waited a while before commenting, because my thoughts are less > exciting than some of the other comments provided about origin of > such objects. I agree with Pete Modreski that the 'Moqui marbles' are > small concretions that have formed in the sandstone, and he pointed > out that they weather free from the ancient dune sands and get > polished by winds as they lie on the ground surface. This probably > explains their attractive appearance. I have been fortunate enough to > have seen many types and shapes of concretions over the years and the > 'Moqui marbles' are not too different from concretions found in other > areas. > > Concretions form in a rock after it has been produced: deposited if > it is a sediment, hardened if it is volcanic. So the concretions > replace or enclose material already present. You mentioned that the > Moqui marbles contain sand in the middle, indicating that they formed > within the sandstone after it had been deposited. Because they have > an outer layer of iron oxide, the iron compounds moved through the > sand to precipitate on the edge of the nodule. Precipitation of the > iron compounds is a chemical reaction, controlled by the chemistry of > the site. > > This is where the story gets less exciting, because it involves > movement of dissolved materials in a sediment or rock body. This is > very ordinary, since groundwater is constantly moving through all > soil and rock and sediment, even at depth, carrying lots of dissolved > compounds, of which iron oxide compounds are almost always present. > When the iron compounds encounter a change in chemical conditions, it > can precipitate. For the Moqui marble concretions, the dissolved iron > compounds appear to have precipitated on the edge of a spherical area > with different chemistry, sealing the sphere of sand with a shell of > iron oxides. > > The sphere was probably one of different oxidation-reduction > conditions. You no doubt have seen such 'reduction spheres' in redbed > deposits, where small spherical areas were never stained with red > iron oxides, because the reduced chemical conditions did not allow > such precipitation. (Probably because of some organic material > present; now gone.) Or change in color along fractures - an > oxidation-reduction effect. If this type of chemical barrier causes > precipitation only on that surface, the iron oxides form a shell, > thus creating the 'Moqui marble' condition. Let the sediment erode > and the iron oxide shells are released and weather out to lay on the > ground surface. Wind polishing can then create a shiny ball. > > The discussion of iron compounds moving through the sediment is > important for considering the origin of flat iron oxide layers in the > sandstone. It is very likely that the flat layers were formed long > after the sand was deposited, by the same general mechanism as that > forming the concretions. A chemical boundary along which the iron > oxides precipitated. The original layer did not have to be iron > oxide-rich; it merely needed to have a different lithology that could > produce different chemistry after deposition, allowing precipitation > of dissolved iron oxide compounds. This general mechanism is > responsible for the formation of bog iron ore deposits, a > concentration of iron oxides that was often mined as an ore. > > The story of concretions is one of chemical change in a rock or > sediment material. Not as dramatic as some stories, but still very > interesting. > > Tom Yancey > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 16:26:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Thu Jan 15 16:26:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geode formation? In-Reply-To: <4006D8A5.153C36B6@att.net> Message-ID: <20040116002513.E2BDFEAA94D@delivery.infowest.com> Yes, Don, you are right. I didn't think it through. Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Don H Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 11:15 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geode formation? Margaret Malm wrote: > > And how would the coating manage to always migrate toward the outside? > Heavier material should tend to move *down*. Unless there was some sort of > centrifugal action going on in the sphere. > ?? > Margaret It may not be a case of gravitational migration so much as a case of chemistry; i.e., that is where the particular reaction occurs. Temperature and pressure may have played a role, but more importantly you might consider solutional saturation, evaporation, as well as capillary action, among others. In chemical microscopy, we are taught to look for the reaction product on the borderline between two droplets of different solutions where they just meet. This is where the concentrations are correct for the chemical reaction to occur and for the product to accrete heterogeneously; i.e, like substances clumping together to bring crystal growth. Remember, if the position of substances were dependent only on gravity, the mercury would never rise, a thick sponge dropped in a thin layer of water would never be wet on top, and those cool & colorful growths that form on coal from salt solutions (didn't you do this when you were a kid?) would never occur. Have fun, Don _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 17:55:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Thomas Yancey) Date: Thu Jan 15 17:55:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Precipitation chemistry,was: Moqui marbles, was Geode ? In-Reply-To: <3a.43604e9a.2d381104@aol.com> References: <3a.43604e9a.2d381104@aol.com> Message-ID: Zebra striping can be explained by a similar process. As fluids with dissolved materials migrate through a rock (and they do, in almost all rocks) the dissolved components can precipitate in nearly parallel bands. These are diffusion bands, which can occur closely spaced in rocks. They often are called liesegang bands. Such banding is fairly common, although most diffusion bands occur singly or are quite faint. Usually one can see that the banding started along a fracture surface. Most diffusion banding occurs in fine grained sediments or volcanic rock, but not too long ago I saw photos of a piece of limestone rock found at Ely, Nevada that had diffusion banding. A most unusual occurrence. In that case there were two sets of diffusion bands that intersected each other and showed that the banding was secondary. Two episodes of banding may be similar to the situation producing the zebra rock you have observed, or it could be diffusion banding overlying a spotted condition that formed first. Tom Y >Tom, > Thank you for the very graphic explanation. I assume that this >explanation also applies to the red stripes and arrays of spots seen >in (Australian?) >Zebra stone. > >It is relatively easy to see how a precipitation region could be generated in >a spherical shape, (a gradient generated by a simple point source at the >center), but the alternation of layers and spots is a little trickier. Do you >know how such patterns arise? > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 18:40:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Pete Richards) Date: Thu Jan 15 18:40:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fonts for Miller Indices In-Reply-To: <003f01c3d791$f6506700$e18b4c0c@fekib> References: Message-ID: Larry Rush wrote: > Pete: A bit off subject, but I was impressed by your chart of the isometric forms in the "gold" issue of Rocks and Minerals. It grapically displays a subject that often baffles newcomers to crystallography, that being how habits are physically related to each other in a system and how the transitions occur between the classes. Have you done this for the other systems, and if so, where can I get copies? Thanks for your interest, Larry. I'm glad you found that diagram useful. I have not done comparable diagrams for other symmetry systems or even classes, though in principle it could be done. I'm not sure the idea is original, but rather suspect it comes from the dusty corners of my mind where I stored it when I saw it in an old (~1910) mineralogy text. There is also a diagram for pyrite that is somewhat similar, published by I. Sunagawa, I think, and used for a t-shirt at the Rochester symposium last year by Bruce and Cathy Gaber. -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 19:33:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Thu Jan 15 19:33:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Quartz Crystals Message-ID: <160.2a9fcc43.2d38b535@aol.com> >From my Father's estate, I received several Green Quartz Crystals. These crystals do not look like the adventurine quartz and are very clear like Amethyst or Citrine crystals except green. They are not included like prase nor do they have any other mineral coatings. Do these crystals have a "common name" other than green quartz? Any Idea where they are found? Thank you Timothy McGinnis --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 19:47:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Thu Jan 15 19:47:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles Message-ID: I have been a collector and student of sand concretions for quite a few years now and I may have something to contribute to this thread. Many sand concretions occur in spherical to near spherical forms and the existence of some of these in joined spheres (doubles and multiples) along with the fact that they are found in unconsolidated sand deposits suggests that they grow in unconsolidated sand . The sand deposit may later be consolidated by further deposition into sandstone formations from which these "sand balls" can then be eroded and hence found loose. I first came across the moqui marbles several years ago at various mineral shows and I've been studying them ever since in an attempt to develop a convincing mode of origin. Several lines of investigation lead to my current position on this subject of which the following is the main one. Forty years ago (in England) I became interested in the subject of growing crystals in gel (specifically in silica gel). Allowing solutions of chemicals to mix slowly by diffusion through a silica gelcan permit crystals to form. T he specific experiments that I performed consisted of the reaction between copper sulphate and a reducing agent( Iwas using hydroxlamine hydrochloride). If the two solutions are mixed directly what you get is a copper coloured "mud" in the test tube; if younallow them to react in a gel what you get are crystals of copper. I also performed this experiment allowing the solutions to diffuse and react slowly through a mass of fine damp silica sand and got a similar result. Further book research brought to light a phenomena known as "periodic precipitation". If one chemical is mixed in with the silica gel as it sets as a thin film on a glass plate and the second chemical is dripped onto this gel film the result is not a continious area of crystallization but a series of concentric rings of crystals interspersed with clear gel rings. If you visualize this process happening in three dimensions you could expect to get the formation of a spherical shell enclosing a clear center. Visualize this happening in a fine sand and you could get something like the moqui marbles. Further evidence is provided by some moqui marbles from my collection in which I have found interior shells of ironstone in the sand. I envisage this sort of growth occuring in an unconsolidate sand deposit which is later consolidated into sandstone. In such "balls" the sand inside the ball would be less consolidated (dense) than that outside the "ball". I have been seeking for some time a source of samples of the sandstone with the balls still in matrix so that I can compare the sand inside with the sandstone directly outside the shell. Is there anyone out there who can supply me with such? Jim Groves jg81638@aol.com 413-743-4542 94 River Road, Savoy, MA 01256 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 20:22:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kris Murray) Date: Thu Jan 15 20:22:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Enquiry from a Canadian Rockhound In-Reply-To: <3FFF453A.000003.02976@your-lk4rlmsu41> References: <3FFF453A.000003.02976@your-lk4rlmsu41> Message-ID: <62572572-47DB-11D8-A353-000393A96092@mac.com> mineral council of WA and this.... HTH ~KM On Jan 9, 2004, at 4:20 PM, earleyne mulroney wrote: > well, so we are hoping to do the same in Wa for shorter period of > time. We > Sin is a means of social control From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 21:23:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Jan 15 21:23:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Quartz Crystals References: <160.2a9fcc43.2d38b535@aol.com> Message-ID: <400774F6.5DD7@Tomaszewski.net> MCGINNISG@aol.com wrote: > > >From my Father's estate, I received several Green Quartz Crystals. These > crystals do not look like the adventurine quartz and are very clear like Amethyst > or Citrine crystals except green. They are not included like prase nor do they > have any other mineral coatings. Do these crystals have a "common name" other > than green quartz? > Any Idea where they are found? Thank you > > Timothy McGinnis Green quartz crystals (often with rounded forms) are known from the Greek island of Serifos. They are colored green by hedenbergite, but may have yellow or amethyst tints from iron impurities. They are commonly known as Green Quartz; Prase is Green 'Micro-Crystaline' Quartz. Kreigh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 15 23:02:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Chris Auer) Date: Thu Jan 15 23:02:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Wild at eBay References: <000c01c3da9a$f2fc36e0$897ba8c0@cm333814lt> <4005E76B.738A@Tomaszewski.net> <003001c3db79$a7782320$c3ff4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> Message-ID: <008501c3dbfe$7abae270$dc14bd51@chris> Hi Van, Thank you very much for this info. Short note to a complete Wild system: I spoke just with several dealers and also with Leica (Wild). If something on a Wild scope is missing or damaged you can`t get this part anymore. Sure, eyepieces should be still no problem, but if the phototubus is missing you have no chance. I was adviced to buy a complete scope otherwise I must live with my "Frankenscope". Chris Auer ======================== http://www.wulfenite.com http://www.minerlamps.com ======================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Van" To: Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 4:10 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Wild at eBay > For those of you who were drolling about the Wild microscope, there is > currently a Wild M* and other scopes and accessories on eBay. You'll > probably want to pick up some extra eyepieces also. Note the Wild M8 seems > to be incomplete in some way and is being sold "as is", but still at a heck > of a price. Maybe the phototube has no objective? Can't tell from photo. > You'll get all of the Wild accessory listings if you just search "Wild > microscope". If anyone is missing an accessory or eyepiece, you can create > a "Frankenscope". Note many eyepieces can be interchanged between brands. If > you're short something a bit of research might get you what you need. > > FYI > > Van > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 16 04:35:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Dennis Buffenmyer) Date: Fri Jan 16 04:35:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hematite + magnetite In-Reply-To: <008901c3d5a9$353bb2c0$d2a4490c@pete> References: <000001c3d55b$0c7af1f0$116bc950@maxdata> <008901c3d5a9$353bb2c0$d2a4490c@pete> Message-ID: <4007DAEC.5040107@ptd.net> I see an ad in rock and gem for magnetite/ utah lodestone; 100 medium pieces $60 or 50 lbs for $100 FAWCETT HOBBIES 320 S 300 W Hurricane, Utah 84737 435-635-2980 I have no personal experience with these folks.... Peter J. Modreski wrote: >Rik, > >Fairly large, solid crystals of pure hematite are fairly common from Brazil. >I believe they are the source of the polished hematite beads that one often >sees. I've seen (and purchased samples of) nice solid, tumbled-polished >pieces of such hematite at rock shops and mineral shows, often for just $1 >or so for a 1- or 2-inch size piece; you should be able to find some without >too much difficulty--probably the polished lumps are even more generally >available, than the crystal specimens. > >Pete Modreski > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Rik Dillen" >To: "Rockhounds" >Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 1:15 PM >Subject: [Rockhounds] Hematite + magnetite > > > > >>Dear friends, >> >>This time I have a job-related request. >>For calibration of our GD-OES (glow discharge optical emission >> >> >spectrometer) for oxygen (target : phase determination with depth > > >>profiling on oxidised sheet steel) we are after a solid piece of VERY PURE >> >> >hematite, and one of magnetite. > > >>I think that the best purity would be guaranteed in a large single crystal >> >> >of each mineral. We should be able to reveal a polished > > >>cross section of at least about 1.5 X 1.5 cm that is free of inclusions >> >> >and/or cavities. > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 16 08:20:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Stephen stover) Date: Fri Jan 16 08:20:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui Marbles In-Reply-To: <4006BF48.7030906@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: <20040116161917.95166.qmail@web20022.mail.yahoo.com> I have to disagree with this. The San Fransico peaks volcanic region around and north of Flagstaff has extensive volcanics in AZ there are numerous volcanic eruptive rocks in western AZ and across New Mexico. I will agree once north of about page AZ that the volcanics drop off to almost nil but anyone heading to the Grand canyon form flagstaff will attest to the "Hot, unsettled nature of the rocks" I was a geology major at Flagstaff and studied those rocks form Sedona, AZ (has a cidner cone in the middle of oak creek canyon) to the ash deposits around the Wupatki(sp?) indian ruins. so there is some igneious rocks on the colorado plateau. The plateau starts at the mogoian rim remember > As for volcanos or meteors, well, the Colorado > Plateau has been the one > long term stable structure in the region, and there > is no evidence of > shock quartz or impact residue. > > The prosaic explanation is most likely the correct > one. Ah, well, even > long eons of time can produce spectacular results. > > john > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ===== Stephen F. Stover PH (281) 829-1102 xossfs@yahoo.com Wanting to hunt rocks and play games every day! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 16 09:05:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (jb) Date: Fri Jan 16 09:05:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui Marbles Message-ID: <40080C1A.3080300@hal-pc.org> Hi, Margaret. Yes it does seem strange that they should form as round concretions and not be deposited there, but that is much more likely than the alternative. Remember that the Navajo Sandstone is a Lower Jurassic formation, and there are plenty of things that happened above it that have been eroded away. And this formation stretches from Central Arizona nearly to the Uintas. That's a lot of ground for things to happen over and that would allow enough time for almost anything to happen... As to why they are round, well... why are the Keokuck and Illlinois geodes mostly round? I have seen them in quantity that way. And most are quartz-filled, looking as though they grew from the center out until one sees some that are partially hollow showing an obvious wall grown cluster. A lot of those also have petroleum (bitumen) in them! No one knows how or why they do. Most of the vesicle-grown "thundereggs/geodes" are irregular in shape ranging all over the map. If you ever get a chance to collect at Round Mountain, AZ, DO SO, as you will easily find enough to make a "shapes" collection, besides a lot of fire agate. (Most of the agate is not facet-quality but it makes great cabs). The same is true of the NM, Oregon, and other eggs. The only thing they seem to have in common is that they all form in silicate-rich Rhyolite. I think we sometimes underestimate the power of water to transport. It's hard to imagine a rock as being permeable, but of course they are, and when whomever is carrying one or two ions at a time it is easy to accumulate lots over time. The interesting thing is the chemistry. Why did these iron ions "concrete" at a particular place? Water dissolved the iron as ferrous and it was deposited as ferric iron. That involves a change of oxidation state, which means that the concretions were formed quite near the surface, as they are in bogs and fens even now. Was it as suggested, some organic matter that triggered the change? Or something else? There is no direct evidence for anything, so Pete's little mystery remains intact (thank goodness; Lord, what would it be like if we knew everything!) john From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 16 09:09:26 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (jb) Date: Fri Jan 16 09:09:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcanics around the Colorado Plateau Message-ID: <400810DA.7070104@hal-pc.org> True. And those volcanics occur close to the Texas-Walker Fault line and the Rio Grande rift. One could also say the same thing about the San Juans in Colorado. But the plateau itself has been a remarkably long-lasting structure, relatively unchanged. Long enough to form the Grand Canyon. And the San Rafael Swell shows that some parts of it were once part of a sea. That's a lot of climate change as well as fault movement. The possibilities loom large. john From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 16 09:10:07 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Fri Jan 16 09:10:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Precipitation chemistry,was: Moqui marbles, was Geode ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040116170913.841C9EB00F5@delivery.infowest.com> Thanks, Tom. That would explain the layers of very iron-rich hematite that form the hoodoo caps in Zion. I would also mention that up in the "desert" north of Milford (Ut) there is an area where they mine a "Zebra Rock". White (limestone, I think) with dark (they look black) stripes. The stripes are not really straight, but they are fairly parallel. Might have originally been straight before all the pushing and shoving occurred! Or maybe not. Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Yancey Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 6:51 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Precipitation chemistry,was: Moqui marbles, was Geode ? Zebra striping can be explained by a similar process. As fluids with dissolved materials migrate through a rock (and they do, in almost all rocks) the dissolved components can precipitate in nearly parallel bands. These are diffusion bands, which can occur closely spaced in rocks. They often are called liesegang bands. Such banding is fairly common, although most diffusion bands occur singly or are quite faint. Usually one can see that the banding started along a fracture surface. Most diffusion banding occurs in fine grained sediments or volcanic rock, but not too long ago I saw photos of a piece of limestone rock found at Ely, Nevada that had diffusion banding. A most unusual occurrence. In that case there were two sets of diffusion bands that intersected each other and showed that the banding was secondary. Two episodes of banding may be similar to the situation producing the zebra rock you have observed, or it could be diffusion banding overlying a spotted condition that formed first. Tom Y From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 16 09:21:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Fri Jan 16 09:21:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040116172024.04CF5EA8741@delivery.infowest.com> Hi, Jim. The "periodic precipitation" sounds very interesting. I have seen broken marbles in Zion that did indeed have an interior shell as well as an exterior one. My question now, is -- where did/does the silica gel come from? I will have a look and see if I can find something to send you. Unfortunately, all the ones I have studied were in a National Park and therefore (by federal law) I cannot dig one out with some matrix to send you. But I may be able to find some outside the Park over towards Kanab. Margaret >>> Further book research brought to light a phenomena known as "periodic precipitation". If one chemical is mixed in with the silica gel as it sets as a thin film on a glass plate and the second chemical is dripped onto this gel film the result is not a continious area of crystallization but a series of concentric rings of crystals interspersed with clear gel rings. If you visualize this process happening in three dimensions you could expect to get the formation of a spherical shell enclosing a clear center. Visualize this happening in a fine sand and you could get something like the moqui marbles. Further evidence is provided by some moqui marbles from my collection in which I have found interior shells of ironstone in the sand. I envisage this sort of growth occuring in an unconsolidate sand deposit which is later consolidated into sandstone. In such "balls" the sand inside the ball would be less consolidated (dense) than that outside the "ball". I have been seeking for some time a source of samples of the sandstone with the balls still in matrix so that I can compare the sand inside with the sandstone directly outside the shell. Is there anyone out there who can supply me with such? Jim Groves jg81638@aol.com 413-743-4542 94 River Road, Savoy, MA 01256 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 16 11:20:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Fri Jan 16 11:20:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles Message-ID: <36.4f6180dc.2d39934b@aol.com> Hi Margaret - thanx for your comment, and multiple thanx for your offer to see if you can find marbles in matrix outside the park!! On your question re the silica gel - I don't mean to suggest that silica gel was necessary for "marble" formation, my (slight) investigation back in England leads me to suspect that a fine sand matrix could serve just as well and the sand I've found in the "marbles" I've opened is quite fine. Jim --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 16 11:53:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Fri Jan 16 11:53:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles Message-ID: <011620041952.2567.2b9a@att.net> You can make your own gel Margaret! 1. Buy cheap specimen of Mexican hemimorphite 2. Break off clear blades, trying to keep the limonite out of the mix, and gently crush them. A tablespoon full is enough for your first test. 3. Obtain 50 to 100 ml of hydrochloric or muriatic acid, 25 to 37%. 4. In a small glass container, 150 to 250 ml, add the hemimorphite and then slowly add the acid. 5. After some period of time, you will have your gel! I have grown crystals in this gel by accident; my matrix was not just hemimorphite, but also a hydrous hydrated iron oxide along with miscellanous lead, zinc, and sulfur compounds. Some nice, clear, needle-like crystals grew. Perhaps some of the chemists can suggest safe and interesting compounds to add to the mix in order to grow nice crystals. Have fun, Don From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 16 12:02:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Frank de Wit) Date: Fri Jan 16 12:02:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nikon / Canon References: <000c01c3da9a$f2fc36e0$897ba8c0@cm333814lt> <4005E76B.738A@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <001101c3dc6b$763d5c10$897ba8c0@cm333814lt> see a great email on 'backwards lens comptability' by Rik Dillen on e-min (in dutch) on the same subject (I crossposted my question ;-) see: http://www.topica.com/lists/mineralogie/read/message.html?mid=909365917&sort=d&start=3345 cheers! Frank ps there are online dictionaries for dutch->english translation: http://dictionaries.travlang.com/DutchEnglish/ and http://www.freetranslation.com/ but they make funny stuff out of dutch although dutch is already funny to you all i suppose ;-) a WW-II joke I believe, to distuingish between an american and a dutch, was to pronounce the name of the dutch town 'scheveningen' http://www.scheveningen.nl/gb/ have a go at it and be happy we dutch (and belgians) talk english (or some sort of angloamerican) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 2:12 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Nikon / Canon > Frank de Wit wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > The Canon 300D is almost a standard camera already ;-) > > I know some people who already have and use the digicam, but unfortinately not for mineral macro photography > > > > And now also Nikon shows up: > > See: http://www.nikon-d70.nl/nl/ and http://www.dcviews.com/page.htm?_Nikon/d70m.htm > > Also on this camera you can use the AF-Nikkor lenses you already have... > > Some will like to read that I suppose :-) > > > > My question is: who already has experience here with mineral macro photography with the Canon? > > > > Cheers! > > Frank > > Hi Frank, > > I've had some experience shooting rocks with a Cannon. But its not going > to help here because I use a old FX or SX body with a set of Cannon > lenses. > > I'm wondering if anyone knows if I could use my Cannon lenses on a new > Nikon digital body with one of the old Cannon/Nikon adapter rings? > > The one Cannon body I found that could take my lenses was professional > megapixels (it took NICE pictures) but had a professional pricetag. I'de > like to find something less expensive. > > Kreigh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 16 13:19:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Stephen Stover) Date: Fri Jan 16 13:19:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcanics around the Colorado Plateau In-Reply-To: <400810DA.7070104@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: <20040116211847.61430.qmail@web20021.mail.yahoo.com> Auctually the Colorado is fairly recent phenom. I will admit there is little structue on the plateau. but as a unit it has rise approx 5000 feet in the last few million years. Yes parts of the plateau were once the bottom of the sea, to my mind about half the rocks. but the teapeats sandstone was laid down over 500 million years ago. However teh larmide orgeny caused many broad structual elements all over the colorado including most of the monovlines and the swell tkaibab limestone arch the casued the grad canyon to occur. Also active tectonics does occur in northern az. In approx. 1910 fagstaff had a 6.0 or so earthquake that damaged the few builings in the area at the time. The colorado plateua is generally like the great plains, no great quantites of compression or heat however there is structure just look at the waterpocket fold in utah, the tilted fault blocks in the grand canyon. the lava outporings and the cinder cones IN the Grand Canyon. Be careful with sweeping statements becasue you always will get bit. and I am a pretty good junk yard dog. ;-) --- jb wrote: > True. And those volcanics occur close to the > Texas-Walker Fault line > and the Rio Grande rift. One could also say the > same thing about the > San Juans in Colorado. But the plateau itself has > been a remarkably > long-lasting structure, relatively unchanged. Long > enough to form the > Grand Canyon. And the San Rafael Swell shows that > some parts of it were > once part of a sea. That's a lot of climate change > as well as fault > movement. The possibilities loom large. > > john > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ===== Stephen F. Stover PH (281) 829-1102 xossfs@yahoo.com Wanting to hunt rocks and play games every day! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 16 14:18:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Jan 16 14:18:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles References: <011620041952.2567.2b9a@att.net> Message-ID: <001001c3dc7e$7318c8e0$539f77d5@axel> Hi Margaret and Don http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0486689158/103-9095771-5939809?v=glance This is what you need. I have a copy of this book "Crystal growth in gels" and I'm trying to grow fluorite. So far I only have "grown" the Liesegang bands (or rings) but fluorite may be harder to grow than calcite. Perhaps this explanation is redundant (I only read a few of the messages) or wrong but I think it's what happens in this type of geode growth : - cavity in rock is filled by hot solution of sillicagel and sand (carrying iron hydroxides as contaminant) through cracks by geothermic activity - geothermic activity ceases - water starts to migrate from the geode to the surrounding rock so the geode dries out from the center outwards. Cracks are sealed by sand and gel - Silicagel solidifies coagulating the sand into sandstone, the receding water carries the iron hydroxides along to the rim of the geode. The gel is less dense than the rock around it ( in fact the gel has "channels" through which the iron rich water can migrate, the rock is just porous and acts as a filter) so the iron is held back at the contact zone between the gel and the rock. Actually, it's much the same principle the is used in thin layer chromatography. Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 8:52 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles > > You can make your own gel Margaret! > > 1. Buy cheap specimen of Mexican hemimorphite > 2. Break off clear blades, trying to keep the limonite out of the mix, and > gently crush them. A tablespoon full is enough for your first test. > 3. Obtain 50 to 100 ml of hydrochloric or muriatic acid, 25 to 37%. > 4. In a small glass container, 150 to 250 ml, add the hemimorphite and then > slowly add the acid. > 5. After some period of time, you will have your gel! > > I have grown crystals in this gel by accident; my matrix was not just > hemimorphite, but also a hydrous hydrated iron oxide along with miscellanous > lead, zinc, and sulfur compounds. Some nice, clear, needle-like crystals > grew. Perhaps some of the chemists can suggest safe and interesting compounds > to add to the mix in order to grow nice crystals. > > Have fun, > > Don > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 16 14:55:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Don H) Date: Fri Jan 16 14:55:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles References: <011620041952.2567.2b9a@att.net> <001001c3dc7e$7318c8e0$539f77d5@axel> Message-ID: <40086CAF.C3864E@att.net> Axel Emmermann wrote: > > Hi Margaret and Don > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0486689158/103-9095771-5939809?v=glance > > This is what you need. Axel you are the KING! Does Belgium still have a king? I would also recommend another book that Amazon so cleverly lists beneath this one: Crystals and Light by Elizabeth Wood. If I could grow some clear, optical calcite, that would be superb. Maybe Margaret and I could trade crystals. Thanks, Don P.S. When I finish this semester of college chemistry, I should be able to create some of my own wild recipes. Lanthanum hexaboride, anyone? From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 16 15:02:04 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Jan 16 15:02:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles In-Reply-To: <011620041952.2567.2b9a@att.net> Message-ID: Sounds to me that you could do the same with some zinc, silica gel and HCl, why mash some specimin? I'm going to have to try this, we have all sorts of excess zinc rods laying around this would be an interesting use for for one or two. Bryan Samuel Adams advised, "Let us contemplate our forefathers, and posterity, and resolve to maintain the rights bequeathed to us from the former, for the sake of the latter." > > You can make your own gel Margaret! > > 1. Buy cheap specimen of Mexican hemimorphite > 2. Break off clear blades, trying to keep the limonite out of > the mix, and > gently crush them. A tablespoon full is enough for your first test. > 3. Obtain 50 to 100 ml of hydrochloric or muriatic acid, 25 to 37%. > 4. In a small glass container, 150 to 250 ml, add the > hemimorphite and then > slowly add the acid. > 5. After some period of time, you will have your gel! > > I have grown crystals in this gel by accident; my matrix was not just > hemimorphite, but also a hydrous hydrated iron oxide along with > miscellanous > lead, zinc, and sulfur compounds. Some nice, clear, needle-like crystals > grew. Perhaps some of the chemists can suggest safe and > interesting compounds > to add to the mix in order to grow nice crystals. > > Have fun, > > Don > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 16 15:09:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Don H) Date: Fri Jan 16 15:09:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles References: Message-ID: <40086FE8.56F46E7F@att.net> J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > Sounds to me that you could do the same with some zinc, silica gel and HCl, > why mash some specimin? You could, but I don't have silica gel sitting around! Perhaps we could use those gel dessicants? In any case, this is also a good field test for differentiating botryoidal hemimorphite from botryoidal smithsonite. The smithsonite will simply dissolve; the hemi will gel. Don From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 16 16:10:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Italian Minerals) Date: Fri Jan 16 16:10:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD - First pre Tucson update ! Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.0.20040117010044.021602a8@popmail.libero.it> Hi there, ucson is almost ready to begin and we have decided to start to add the new rocks we aquired in these last weeks! A nice variety and hgh quality specimens have been just added on www.ItalianMinerals.com . Among the many minerals already on our pages you can find gold from Romania, giant vivianite from Bolivia, analcime from Italt, wulfenite from USA, vanadinite from Marocco, tourmalines from Italy and a lot of other specimens ! Visit our pages at www.ItalianMinerals.com Next update will include: corundum, elbaite, columbite from Madagascar vanadinite from Marocco NEW elbaites from Isola Elba Have fun, Alessandro - ItalianMinerals.com ============================== Quality minerals from Italy and worldwide Italian Minerals http://www.italianminerals.com ============================== --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 16 16:33:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jan 16 16:33:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nikon / Canon References: <000c01c3da9a$f2fc36e0$897ba8c0@cm333814lt> <4005E76B.738A@Tomaszewski.net> <001101c3dc6b$763d5c10$897ba8c0@cm333814lt> Message-ID: <400882B3.3334@Tomaszewski.net> Topica reports the message no longer exists (It is possible it was deleted by the owner). Shucks! I was looking forward to attempting the translation. Hey Rik, if you still have the message in your Sent folder could you please pass it on or repost it here? Thanks! Kreigh Frank de Wit wrote: > > see a great email on 'backwards lens comptability' by Rik Dillen on e-min > (in dutch) on the same subject > (I crossposted my question ;-) > see: > http://www.topica.com/lists/mineralogie/read/message.html?mid=909365917&sort=d&start=3345 > > cheers! Frank > ps > there are online dictionaries for dutch->english translation: > http://dictionaries.travlang.com/DutchEnglish/ and > http://www.freetranslation.com/ > but they make funny stuff out of dutch although dutch is already funny to > you all i suppose ;-) > a WW-II joke I believe, to distuingish between an american and a dutch, was > to pronounce the name of the dutch town 'scheveningen' > http://www.scheveningen.nl/gb/ > > have a go at it and be happy we dutch (and belgians) talk english (or some > sort of angloamerican) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 2:12 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Nikon / Canon > > > Frank de Wit wrote: > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > The Canon 300D is almost a standard camera already ;-) > > > I know some people who already have and use the digicam, but > unfortinately not for mineral macro photography > > > > > > And now also Nikon shows up: > > > See: http://www.nikon-d70.nl/nl/ and > http://www.dcviews.com/page.htm?_Nikon/d70m.htm > > > Also on this camera you can use the AF-Nikkor lenses you already have... > > > Some will like to read that I suppose :-) > > > > > > My question is: who already has experience here with mineral macro > photography with the Canon? > > > > > > Cheers! > > > Frank > > > > Hi Frank, > > > > I've had some experience shooting rocks with a Cannon. But its not going > > to help here because I use a old FX or SX body with a set of Cannon > > lenses. > > > > I'm wondering if anyone knows if I could use my Cannon lenses on a new > > Nikon digital body with one of the old Cannon/Nikon adapter rings? > > > > The one Cannon body I found that could take my lenses was professional > > megapixels (it took NICE pictures) but had a professional pricetag. I'de > > like to find something less expensive. > > > > Kreigh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 16 20:12:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Fri Jan 16 20:12:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui Marbles East Texas style Message-ID: Hey everyone, I have some interesting geodelike Moqui Marblelike nodules near where I grew up in North East Texas. They are not the Moqui as have been described, but sinilar. They are sandstone iron ore balls that have sand inside when cracked open. They resemble a gumball filled with fine powder sand (sorounding material) that has hardened on the outside. No where as hard as the Moqui's. They are about that size too. Maybe they are Moqui cousins. Maybe at least in formation processes. There are surface growing gypsum crystals with them. The Grand Saline salt mines are around this area. I am told that the gypsum usually hangs out in these type areas. that's about all I know of these rocks. Anyone know of this location or similar ones? thanks, Kevin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 16 22:59:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Horst Windisch) Date: Fri Jan 16 22:59:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mara Texeira-Leite Message-ID: <000901c3dcc6$3ddaf160$124027c4@horstspc> Hi List, Have just been informed that Mara Texeira-Leite passed away on Friday evening in Bloemfontein, South Africa. She was living with her sister, after the death of her husband. Louis Texeira-Leite some years ago. Some of the regular visitors to the Tucson Show will probably remember her as being the wife of Louis, who was a regular mineral dealer in Tucson .The mineral Leiteite (found at Tsumeb) was named after Louis. We in South Africa got to know them very well, whilst they were still living in South Africa in the seventies and eighties, where they were both staunch members of the Pretoria Gem and Mineral Club (of which I was Chairman at the time). They eventually emigrated to Portugal, from where they then carried on with their mineral dealership. Horst From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Jan 17 00:40:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (magnet) Date: Sat Jan 17 00:40:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Test Post - Please Ignore Message-ID: <20040117084105.10365.qmail@webmachine101.com> Having trouble posting - please ignore this email if it gets to the list. Copied to Aaron --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Jan 17 02:02:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Frank de Wit) Date: Sat Jan 17 02:02:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nikon / Canon References: <000c01c3da9a$f2fc36e0$897ba8c0@cm333814lt> <4005E76B.738A@Tomaszewski.net> <001101c3dc6b$763d5c10$897ba8c0@cm333814lt> <400882B3.3334@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <002901c3dce0$c990f050$897ba8c0@cm333814lt> this is the one: Beste e-minners, ik ben al geruime tijd de markt van de digitale reflexcamera's van heel nabij aan het volgen, met vooral aandacht voor de NIKON D100 die al bijna 2 jaar op de markt is. De D70 zal daarvan een afgeslakte versie zijn, met wellicht (ook) een heel goede kwaliteit. Een paar dingen moet toch relativeren, met name de zogenaamde goede retro-compatibiliteit m.b.t. bestaande lenzen. Men had mij wijsgemaakt dat je alle gangbare objectieven en andere accessoires zou kunnen gebruiken, maar in de praktijk is dat verre van waar. En voor de D70 zal dat ongetwijfeld niet beter zijn, vrees ik. Ik geef eerst de contra's, daarna de pro's NEGATIEF : 1. Retro-compatibiliteit van lenzen en accessoires - AF-lenzen : OK ; voor de D70 zullen evenwel speciale lenzen aangeboden worden die beter geschikt zijn voor die technologie. - niet-AF lenzen (bv. de wereldberoemde Micro-Nikkor 55 mm macro-lens) : noppes, omdat de lichtmeting niet werkt met dergelijke lenzen. Je kunt er "op de tast" een foto mee maken, naderhand kijken op je LCD-scherm via een histogram of het goed is, zoniet opnieuw proberen en zo kom je er wel. In de praktijk dus : Micro-Nikkor 55 mm in de vuilbak (of enkel nog gebruçiken met de beschikbare F2A en/of F90), en een nieuwe peperdure macro-lens van Nikon kopen, die zoveel kost als een goede digitale compactcamera. - Een uitstekende flits (SB-25), met jaren geleden een prijskaartje van omgerekend zowat 600 ?, is enkel in manuele (dus niet-TTL) modus bruikbaar, dus... (jawel, je weet het antwoord al...) - Extensie-ring PK-13 voor macro-fotografie : forget it... geen lichtmeting mogelijk - Balg PB-6 voor macro-fotografie : forget it... idem - Dia-copieerapparaat PS-6 : idem als balg, uiteraard. - Hoek-zoeker DR-3 (zeker nodig als het fototoestel op een balg en dus nogal hoog staat) : hoera, mits twee op elkaar te monteren tussenstukken, die samen bijna zoveer kosten als een hoekzoeker bruikbaar op de D100 (en wellicht de D70). Samengevat : de retro-compatibiliteit is bijzonder pover ; geloof de publiciteit daaromtrent best niet zomaar. Als je macro-fotografie wil gaan doen mag je wellicht de prijs voor de D100 (ongeveer 1800 ? voor de body alleen) nog eens met 2 vermenigvuldigen voor je de nodige accessoires en lenzen hebt. En dat is dan nog dunnetjes berekend. Voor de D70 blijft het absolute getal voor de accessoires waarschijnlijk identisch. 2. Vervuiling van de eigenlijke "detector" of sensor. Dit is een uiterst delicaat electronisch onderdeeltje met 6 miljoen microscopisch grote detectoren. Bij het verwisselen van lenzen is dat zaakje elektrostatisch geladen, en trekt het onvermijdelijk stof en vuil aan. Dat uit zich op de duur in vlekjes op de beelden, en nogal wat gebruikers beklagen zich erover dat ze om de haverklap (tot meerdere keren per jaar) hun toestel moeten laten onderhouden (kostprijs in de US ongeveer 80 USD per keer). Er bestaan diverse methodes om het zelf te doen, maar dat kan je een complete sensor kosten (vele honderden ?). Dit probleem komt niet of nauwelijks voor bij digitale compactcamera's, omdat de sensor van deze toestellen nooit blootgesteld wordt. Je kunt het probleem ook beperken door er ALTIJD aan te denken de camera uit te schakelen als je een lens verwisselt. 3. Het blijft een vrij zwaar toestel, en je blijft net zoals vroeger met een tas vol accessoires en lenzen rondzeulen. 4. Denk ook aan de opslag van je beelden. Als je een goede kwaliteit van beelden wil opslaan in RAW (*.nef) formaat, zit je gauw aan 60 MB per beeld. Een jpeg van matige kwaliteit, bruikbaar tot een formaat van zowat 10 X 15 cm is zowat 2 MB per beeld. Als je dus op reis (zoals ik meestal) een 100-tal beelden maakt heb je ofwel een laptop nodig (en dat wil ik niet, wegens gewicht en risico), ofwel tenmiste een paar peperdure memory-sticks van 1 GB ofwel een micro-drive of analogon (kostprijs orde van grootte 300-400 ?). Daarbij verdienen solid state devices (zonder bewegende onderdelen) de absolute voorkeur op draagbare hard discs, omdat ze (op reis bv.) tegen een stootje kunnen. Als je RAW beelden van hoge resolutie wil opslaan moet je rekenen op ongeveer 40 seconden opslagtijd per beeld. POSITIEF : 1. De D100 (en ongetwijfeld ook de D70) is een uitstekende camera ; de beelden zijn, zeker in speciale omstandigheden, duidelijk veel beter van kwaliteit dan gelijk welke compacte digitale camera van gelijke resolutie. Dat komt omdat de verschillende lenzen veel beter zijn afgestemd op een bepaald gebiedje van de fotografie (macrolens, breedhoeklens, tele-lens...). Het heeft geen enkele zin om een camera te kopen met een bijzonder hoge resolutie als de kwaliteit van de lenzen er niet mee evenredig is. 2. Vergeleken met een compacte digitale camera is een belangrijk verschil dat je voor de opname door de zoeker kijkt (zoals op een analoge camera), en het LCD-schermpje wordt maar gebruikt nadien om het beeld te evalueren nadat het opgeslagen is. Door de klassieke zoeker zie je veel scherper dan op een LCD-schermpje. De batterij van de D100 gaat dus héél lang mee (vele honderden opnames). 3. Een compacte digitale camera heeft altijd een zeer hoge vertraging van afdrukken tot eigenlijke opname (minimaal 0.8, tot zelfs bijna 1.5 seconde !). Dat maakt het volkomen onmogelijk om een fatsoenlijke opname te maken van bv. een vlucht vogels of andere objecten in beweging. Bij de D100 wordt die tijd weergegeven in milliseconden... geen enkel probleem dus. 4. Voor macrofotografie moet je met een digitale compactcamera tot een paar cm van het voorwerp gaan, wat het zo goed als onmogelijk maakt om bv. een vlinder te fotograferen. Met een goede telelens doe je zoiets vanop een meter of 1.5 m. Ook met de D100. 5. Met een digitale reflexcamera kun je allerlei truuks uithalen met speciale accesssoires, die met een compactcamera niet mogelijk zijn (échte macrofotografie, externe flitser, complexe lichtmating en/of scherpstelling...) Als je veeleisend bent qua mogelijkheden en eindkwaliteit komt een digitale compactcamera eigenlijk niet in aanmerking. Dus moet het een digitale reflexcamera worden, maar die wordt onbetaalbaar als je ook de accessoires en lenzen in rekening brengt (retro-fitting van lenzen en accessoires mag je m.i. gewoon bijna vergeten). Help... ik heb echt geen aanvaardbare oplossing voor dit probleem. Alle suggesties zijn welkom. Geonieuws zal er (qua foto's) wel bij varen ! Ofwel ben ik dus over een paar weken/maanden gefrustreerd, ofwel straatarm... Beste groeten, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15 B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 1:46 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Nikon / Canon > Topica reports the message no longer exists (It is possible it was > deleted by the owner). Shucks! I was looking forward to attempting the > translation. > > Hey Rik, if you still have the message in your Sent folder could you > please pass it on or repost it here? Thanks! > > Kreigh > > > > Frank de Wit wrote: > > > > see a great email on 'backwards lens comptability' by Rik Dillen on e-min > > (in dutch) on the same subject > > (I crossposted my question ;-) > > see: > > http://www.topica.com/lists/mineralogie/read/message.html?mid=909365917&sort=d&start=3345 > > > > cheers! Frank > > ps > > there are online dictionaries for dutch->english translation: > > http://dictionaries.travlang.com/DutchEnglish/ and > > http://www.freetranslation.com/ > > but they make funny stuff out of dutch although dutch is already funny to > > you all i suppose ;-) > > a WW-II joke I believe, to distuingish between an american and a dutch, was > > to pronounce the name of the dutch town 'scheveningen' > > http://www.scheveningen.nl/gb/ > > > > have a go at it and be happy we dutch (and belgians) talk english (or some > > sort of angloamerican) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 2:12 AM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Nikon / Canon > > > > > Frank de Wit wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > The Canon 300D is almost a standard camera already ;-) > > > > I know some people who already have and use the digicam, but > > unfortinately not for mineral macro photography > > > > > > > > And now also Nikon shows up: > > > > See: http://www.nikon-d70.nl/nl/ and > > http://www.dcviews.com/page.htm?_Nikon/d70m.htm > > > > Also on this camera you can use the AF-Nikkor lenses you already have... > > > > Some will like to read that I suppose :-) > > > > > > > > My question is: who already has experience here with mineral macro > > photography with the Canon? > > > > > > > > Cheers! > > > > Frank > > > > > > Hi Frank, > > > > > > I've had some experience shooting rocks with a Cannon. But its not going > > > to help here because I use a old FX or SX body with a set of Cannon > > > lenses. > > > > > > I'm wondering if anyone knows if I could use my Cannon lenses on a new > > > Nikon digital body with one of the old Cannon/Nikon adapter rings? > > > > > > The one Cannon body I found that could take my lenses was professional > > > megapixels (it took NICE pictures) but had a professional pricetag. I'de > > > like to find something less expensive. > > > > > > Kreigh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Jan 17 02:50:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Rik Dillen) Date: Sat Jan 17 02:50:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nikon / Canon In-Reply-To: <002901c3dce0$c990f050$897ba8c0@cm333814lt> Message-ID: <001801c3dce7$8745a3b0$b5dfc850@maxdata> Huh...I'm obviously not acting at the same speed as others... As most of you won't understand a word of what I wrote (it's written in a European aboriginal language, Dutch :>)) I intended to translate it in English. I have seen yesterday the result of the translation in English by an automatic translation machine of an article I wrote on fulgurites, and I must say that I had more the impression that it was about the presence of snakes in ancient houses on Mars during winter time or something... Be patient for perhaps another 24 h and you will receive the text in a language that should be comparable to genuine English. Regards, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15 B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium Tel. + 32 3 7706007 E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Frank de Wit *Sent: zaterdag 17 januari 2004 11:01 *To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com *Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Nikon / Canon * * *this is the one: * *Beste e-minners, * *ik ben al geruime tijd de markt van de digitale reflexcamera's *van heel nabij aan het volgen, met vooral aandacht voor de *NIKON D100 die al bijna 2 jaar op de markt is. De D70 zal *daarvan een afgeslakte versie zijn, met wellicht (ook) een *heel goede kwaliteit. Een paar dingen moet toch relativeren, *met name de zogenaamde goede retro-compatibiliteit m.b.t. *bestaande lenzen. Men had mij wijsgemaakt dat je alle gangbare *objectieven en andere accessoires zou kunnen gebruiken, maar *in de praktijk is dat verre van waar. En voor de D70 zal dat *ongetwijfeld niet beter zijn, vrees ik. Ik geef eerst de *contra's, daarna de pro's * *NEGATIEF : * *1. Retro-compatibiliteit van lenzen en accessoires *- AF-lenzen : OK ; voor de D70 zullen evenwel speciale lenzen *aangeboden worden die beter geschikt zijn voor die technologie. *- niet-AF lenzen (bv. de wereldberoemde Micro-Nikkor 55 mm *macro-lens) : noppes, omdat de lichtmeting niet werkt met *dergelijke lenzen. Je kunt er "op de tast" een foto mee maken, *naderhand kijken op je LCD-scherm via een histogram of het *goed is, zoniet opnieuw proberen en zo kom je er wel. In de *praktijk dus : Micro-Nikkor 55 mm in de vuilbak (of enkel nog *gebruçiken met de beschikbare F2A en/of F90), en een nieuwe *peperdure macro-lens van Nikon kopen, die zoveel kost als een *goede digitale compactcamera. *- Een uitstekende flits (SB-25), met jaren geleden een *prijskaartje van omgerekend zowat 600 ?, is enkel in manuele *(dus niet-TTL) modus bruikbaar, dus... (jawel, je weet het *antwoord al...) *- Extensie-ring PK-13 voor macro-fotografie : forget it... *geen lichtmeting mogelijk *- Balg PB-6 voor macro-fotografie : forget it... idem *- Dia-copieerapparaat PS-6 : idem als balg, uiteraard. *- Hoek-zoeker DR-3 (zeker nodig als het fototoestel op een *balg en dus nogal hoog staat) : hoera, mits twee op elkaar te *monteren tussenstukken, die samen bijna zoveer kosten als een *hoekzoeker bruikbaar op de D100 (en wellicht de D70). * *Samengevat : de retro-compatibiliteit is bijzonder pover ; *geloof de publiciteit daaromtrent best niet zomaar. Als je *macro-fotografie wil gaan doen mag je wellicht de prijs voor *de D100 (ongeveer 1800 ? voor de body alleen) nog eens met 2 *vermenigvuldigen voor je de nodige accessoires en lenzen hebt. *En dat is dan nog dunnetjes berekend. Voor de D70 blijft het *absolute getal voor de accessoires waarschijnlijk identisch. * *2. Vervuiling van de eigenlijke "detector" of sensor. Dit is *een uiterst delicaat electronisch onderdeeltje met 6 miljoen *microscopisch grote detectoren. Bij het verwisselen van lenzen *is dat zaakje elektrostatisch geladen, en trekt het *onvermijdelijk stof en vuil aan. Dat uit zich op de duur in *vlekjes op de beelden, en nogal wat gebruikers beklagen zich *erover dat ze om de haverklap (tot meerdere keren per jaar) *hun toestel moeten laten onderhouden (kostprijs in de US *ongeveer 80 USD per keer). Er bestaan diverse methodes om het *zelf te doen, maar dat kan je een complete sensor kosten (vele *honderden ?). Dit probleem komt niet of nauwelijks voor bij *digitale compactcamera's, omdat de sensor van deze toestellen *nooit blootgesteld wordt. Je kunt het probleem ook beperken *door er ALTIJD aan te denken de camera uit te schakelen als je *een lens verwisselt. * *3. Het blijft een vrij zwaar toestel, en je blijft net zoals *vroeger met een tas vol accessoires en lenzen rondzeulen. * *4. Denk ook aan de opslag van je beelden. Als je een goede *kwaliteit van beelden wil opslaan in RAW (*.nef) formaat, zit *je gauw aan 60 MB per beeld. Een jpeg van matige kwaliteit, *bruikbaar tot een formaat van zowat 10 X 15 cm is zowat 2 MB *per beeld. Als je dus op reis (zoals ik meestal) een 100-tal *beelden maakt heb je ofwel een laptop nodig (en dat wil ik *niet, wegens gewicht en risico), ofwel tenmiste een paar *peperdure memory-sticks van 1 GB ofwel een micro-drive of *analogon (kostprijs orde van grootte 300-400 ?). Daarbij *verdienen solid state devices (zonder bewegende onderdelen) de *absolute voorkeur op draagbare hard discs, omdat ze (op reis *bv.) tegen een stootje kunnen. Als je RAW beelden van hoge *resolutie wil opslaan moet je rekenen op ongeveer 40 seconden *opslagtijd per beeld. * *POSITIEF : * *1. De D100 (en ongetwijfeld ook de D70) is een uitstekende *camera ; de beelden zijn, zeker in speciale omstandigheden, *duidelijk veel beter van kwaliteit dan gelijk welke compacte *digitale camera van gelijke resolutie. Dat komt omdat de *verschillende lenzen veel beter zijn afgestemd op een bepaald *gebiedje van de fotografie (macrolens, breedhoeklens, *tele-lens...). Het heeft geen enkele zin om een camera te *kopen met een bijzonder hoge resolutie als de kwaliteit van de *lenzen er niet mee evenredig is. * *2. Vergeleken met een compacte digitale camera is een *belangrijk verschil dat je voor de opname door de zoeker kijkt *(zoals op een analoge camera), en het LCD-schermpje wordt maar *gebruikt nadien om het beeld te evalueren nadat het opgeslagen *is. Door de klassieke zoeker zie je veel scherper dan op een *LCD-schermpje. De batterij van de D100 gaat dus héél lang mee *(vele honderden opnames). * *3. Een compacte digitale camera heeft altijd een zeer hoge *vertraging van afdrukken tot eigenlijke opname (minimaal 0.8, *tot zelfs bijna 1.5 seconde !). Dat maakt het volkomen *onmogelijk om een fatsoenlijke opname te maken van bv. een *vlucht vogels of andere objecten in beweging. Bij de D100 *wordt die tijd weergegeven in milliseconden... geen enkel probleem dus. * *4. Voor macrofotografie moet je met een digitale compactcamera *tot een paar cm van het voorwerp gaan, wat het zo goed als *onmogelijk maakt om bv. een vlinder te fotograferen. Met een *goede telelens doe je zoiets vanop een meter of 1.5 m. Ook met de D100. * *5. Met een digitale reflexcamera kun je allerlei truuks *uithalen met speciale accesssoires, die met een compactcamera *niet mogelijk zijn (échte macrofotografie, externe flitser, *complexe lichtmating en/of *scherpstelling...) * *Als je veeleisend bent qua mogelijkheden en eindkwaliteit komt *een digitale compactcamera eigenlijk niet in aanmerking. Dus *moet het een digitale reflexcamera worden, maar die wordt *onbetaalbaar als je ook de accessoires en lenzen in rekening *brengt (retro-fitting van lenzen en accessoires mag je m.i. *gewoon bijna vergeten). * *Help... ik heb echt geen aanvaardbare oplossing voor dit *probleem. Alle suggesties zijn welkom. Geonieuws zal er (qua *foto's) wel bij varen ! Ofwel ben ik dus over een paar *weken/maanden gefrustreerd, ofwel straatarm... * *Beste groeten, * *Rik DILLEN *Doornstraat 15 *B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas *Belgium * * *----- Original Message ----- *From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" *To: *Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 1:46 AM *Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Nikon / Canon * * *> Topica reports the message no longer exists (It is possible it was *> deleted by the owner). Shucks! I was looking forward to *attempting the *> translation. *> *> Hey Rik, if you still have the message in your Sent folder could you *> please pass it on or repost it here? Thanks! *> *> Kreigh *> *> *> *> Frank de Wit wrote: *> > *> > see a great email on 'backwards lens comptability' by Rik Dillen on *e-min *> > (in dutch) on the same subject *> > (I crossposted my question ;-) *> > see: *> > *http://www.topica.com/lists/mineralogie/read/message.html?mid=9 *09365917&sort=d&start=3345 *> > *> > cheers! Frank *> > ps *> > there are online dictionaries for dutch->english translation: *> > http://dictionaries.travlang.com/DutchEnglish/ and *> > http://www.freetranslation.com/ but they make funny stuff out of *> > dutch although dutch is already funny *to *> > you all i suppose ;-) *> > a WW-II joke I believe, to distuingish between an american and a *> > dutch, *was *> > to pronounce the name of the dutch town 'scheveningen' *> > http://www.scheveningen.nl/gb/ *> > *> > have a go at it and be happy we dutch (and belgians) talk english *> > (or *some *> > sort of angloamerican) *> > *> > ----- Original Message ----- *> > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" *> > To: *> > Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 2:12 AM *> > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Nikon / Canon *> > *> > > Frank de Wit wrote: *> > > > *> > > > Hi all, *> > > > *> > > > The Canon 300D is almost a standard camera already ;-) I know *> > > > some people who already have and use the digicam, but *> > unfortinately not for mineral macro photography *> > > > *> > > > And now also Nikon shows up: *> > > > See: http://www.nikon-d70.nl/nl/ and *> > http://www.dcviews.com/page.htm?_Nikon/d70m.htm *> > > > Also on this camera you can use the AF-Nikkor lenses *you already *have... *> > > > Some will like to read that I suppose :-) *> > > > *> > > > My question is: who already has experience here with mineral *> > > > macro *> > photography with the Canon? *> > > > *> > > > Cheers! *> > > > Frank *> > > *> > > Hi Frank, *> > > *> > > I've had some experience shooting rocks with a Cannon. *But its not *going *> > > to help here because I use a old FX or SX body with a set of *> > > Cannon lenses. *> > > *> > > I'm wondering if anyone knows if I could use my Cannon *lenses on a *> > > new Nikon digital body with one of the old Cannon/Nikon adapter *> > > rings? *> > > *> > > The one Cannon body I found that could take my lenses was *> > > professional megapixels (it took NICE pictures) but had a *> > > professional pricetag. *I'de *> > > like to find something less expensive. *> > > *> > > Kreigh *> _______________________________________________ *> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List *> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds *> Subscription Services: *> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds * *_______________________________________________ *Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List *WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds *Subscription Services: *http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds * * From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Jan 17 03:45:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Rik Dillen) Date: Sat Jan 17 03:45:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nikon / Canon [long - if not interested : delete !] In-Reply-To: <002901c3dce0$c990f050$897ba8c0@cm333814lt> Message-ID: <002001c3dcef$45b65ea0$b5dfc850@maxdata> As promised I translated my comments on the purchase of a digital reflexcamera compared to a compact digital camera... within 24 hours as promised... even better... within 2 hours !! You don't have to agree with my opinion... but no flames, please... ********************************************************** Since many months I follow up the market of digital reflex cameras quite closely, with special emphasis on the Nikon D100 that is already 2 years on the market now. The D70 will probably be a light version, probably also with a very good quality. A think one should take some considerations into account, more specifically concerns of retrofitting existing lenses. Publicity told me that I would be able to use all accessories that I had for my Nikon F2A and F90 film cameras, but in practice this is absolutely not the case. And for the D70 it will certainly not be better, on the contrary. First I mention what I see as con's, then the pro's NEGATIVE : 1. Retro-compatibility of lenses and accessories. - AF lenses : OK, but bear in mind that due to the smaller size of the detector compared to film a normal lens will act as a small tele. For the D70 special lenses will be available that are better suited for digital systems. - non-AF-lenses (e.g. the world famous Micro Nikkor 55 mm macro lens) : no way, because you won't be able to use the TTL light metering. You can use it based on trial-and-error : take a picture, verify the brightness a posteriori via the histogram on the LCD, correct accordingly the aperture or exposure time, take a new picture etc. Ergo : my Micro-Nikkor becomes useless ; a new equivalent lens costs as much as a very good compact digital camera. - An outstanding external flash, the SB25, with a price tag years ago in the order of 800 USD/650 EUR can only be used in manual mode (no TTL metering !). garbage bin ?? - Extension ring PK-13 for macro : forget it. No light metering. Garbage bin. - Bellows PB-6 for macro : idem. - slide coyping accessory PS-6 on bellows PB-6 idem. - angle viewfinder DR-3 (needed if camera mounted on bellows !) : huray ! compatible, IF TWO extra mounting pieces are used with a price that is probably near the price of the viewfinder. Summarized : retro-compatibility of somewhat older accessories and lenses is VERY poor. If you want to do macro-photography you should probably multiply the price of the D100 with a factor 2 for accessories and lenses. For the D70 the absolute figure for accessories will be the same, so in relative terms it will be even worse. 2. Contamination of the sensor, which is a very delicate electronic device (in fact 6 million micro-detectors). At all times during operation this device is electrically charged, and it attracts dirt and dust. After some time that will form dirt spots on the images, and many users complain about the fact that they have to service the camera quite often to clean the sensor (some claim that they are faced with that problem several times in a year - at a cost of 80 USD each time). This problem does not exist for compact cameras, because the sensor is never exposed to dirt/dust because you can't exchange lenses. You could limit the problem somewhat by always turning of the power of the camera before exchanging a lens. 3. The weight of the camera is considerable (same order as a heavy film camera), and you continue to carry a bag of heavy lenses with you. 4. Storage of images (the same as for a compact camera). If you want to store images in RAW format (which is a must if you want to process them decently afterwards) (*.nef format) you are faced with something like 60 MB per image. A jpeg of medium quality at 10 X 15 cm is something like 2 MB per image. I you shoot a lot of pictures while e.g. travelling (I usually take something like 1000 slides in 3-4 weeks) you need to carry a laptop (which I don't, because of the weight AND the risk) or at least some very expensive memory-sticks of >1 GB, or a micro-drive (cost something like 400 USD - 350 EUR). Solid state devices are far better than portable hard discs, because they can withstand mechanical "mistreatment". Downloading high resolution RAW images from a Nikon D100 takes about 40 seconds per image. POSITIVE 1. The D100 is a splendid camera ; the images are, certainly in special circumstances (macro !) MUCH better than those made by whatever compact digital camera with a comparable resolution. The resaon is that the lenses used are dedicated for their specific job (macro, tele, wide angle). On the other hand it makes no sense to buy a camera with a very high resolution if the quality of the lenses is not in proportion. 2. Compared to a compact digital camera a major difference is that to take a picture you look through the optical viewfinder, just as in an old-fashioned camera ; the LCD is only used for evaluation a posteriori. In the classical optical viewfinder everything is much more sharp and clear than on an LCD. The battery of a D100 has enough power for many hundreds of exposures. 3. A compact digital camera has a very large time gap between the push on the button and the actual exposure (minium 0.8, up to 1.5 seconds !). That makes it completely impossible to take a picture of e.g. a flight of birds in the air, or other moving subjects. For the D100 the elaps time is measured in milliseconds, not in seconds ! In that respect the D100 works exactly like a classical film camera. 4. For macro-photography with a digital compactcamera you have to approach the object to a distance of a few cm, which makes it impossible to take a picture e.g. of a butterfly. With a good tele-objective on the D100 you do that from a distance of something like 1.5 meter. 5. With a digital reflex camera you can use many special accessories to achieve special effects (real macro photography, external flash, complex light metering and/of focusing, ultra high speed images (up to 1/4000 seconds etc.). 6. You have a much wider range of sensibilities than in a compact camera (up to the equivalent of 1400 ASA) GENERAL CONCLUSION If your requirements and expectations on quality are high, a compact digital camera can't even be taken into consideration. The best option is a digital reflex camera, but that is nearly unaffordable (taking into account that retro-fitting of lenses and accessories is nearly impossible). HELP !!! I don't have any acceptable solution for this problem ! Any suggestions are welcome ! So within a few weeks I will either be frustrated (if I buy a compact digital camera) or homeless or at least in poverty (because I spent all my money to buy a D100 everything included). Last minute comment : if indeed I cannot find a decent solution for the lenses-and-accessories issue, I will buy anyway the best compact digital camera I can find (any suggestions - especially macro is important ?), and postpone the purchase of a reflex for at least one or two years. Any comments are very welcome. Flames are not. Rik DILLEN From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Jan 17 05:12:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Jan 17 05:12:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles References: <011620041952.2567.2b9a@att.net> <001001c3dc7e$7318c8e0$539f77d5@axel> <40086CAF.C3864E@att.net> Message-ID: <000701c3dcfb$5ac1acd0$4a9e77d5@axel> > Axel you are the KING! Hmm, well... the position has been vacant since Elvis died.... OK, Don, I'll think about it ;-))))) >Does Belgium still have a king? Yes, that would be King Albert II... We even have TWO queens. Queen Fabiola (Spanish nobility, she was "imported" as Donna Fabiobal di Mora Y Aragon), the wife of Boudewijn I stayed queen after the dead of her husband. The actual queen is Paola (di Calabria and something). Should King Albert die or abdicate while Fabiola is still alive we would have Prince Philip and his wife Princess Mathilde as new king and queen. Then we would be in an unbelievable luxureous position: three queens no less!!!! >I would also > recommend another book that Amazon so cleverly lists beneath this one: > Crystals and Light by Elizabeth Wood. Will keep it in mind! I have too much to read at this time... I plan to begin chewing my way through crystal field theory.... > If I could grow some clear, optical calcite, that would be superb. > Maybe Margaret and I could trade crystals. I could but it takes months... and the crystals are small, usually less than a few mm. I was, however, invited by professor Vochten to come over to his lab and play some with the advanced "pressure cookers" he has.... We can make fluorite, calcite and stuff like that in hours instead of months... > P.S. When I finish this semester of college chemistry, I should be able > to create some of my own wild recipes. One wart from a witches nose and two wings of a bat... > Lanthanum hexaboride, anyone? As used in ??? Cheers Axel > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Jan 17 05:17:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Jan 17 05:17:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles References: <40086FE8.56F46E7F@att.net> Message-ID: <001301c3dcfc$1fdde150$4a9e77d5@axel> You can make a perfect gel by mixing Sodium metasilicate (waterglass) with 1 M acetic acid. Dilute 17ml of the commercial waterglass to 100 ml with demineralized water (boil it first to remover the CO2. That way you can keep the solution longer). Of this solution you can mix equal parts with the diluted acetic acid. Let the gel settle for at least 48 hours. Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don H" To: Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 12:12 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > > Sounds to me that you could do the same with some zinc, silica gel and HCl, > > why mash some specimin? > > You could, but I don't have silica gel sitting around! Perhaps we could > use those gel dessicants? > In any case, this is also a good field test for differentiating > botryoidal hemimorphite from botryoidal smithsonite. The smithsonite > will simply dissolve; the hemi will gel. > > Don > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Jan 17 07:50:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sat Jan 17 07:50:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles References: <011620041952.2567.2b9a@att.net> <001001c3dc7e$7318c8e0$539f77d5@axel> <40086CAF.C3864E@att.net> <000701c3dcfb$5ac1acd0$4a9e77d5@axel> Message-ID: <003501c3dd11$bc39e840$dda3490c@pete> Dear List, Along with all these various comments & advice that's appeared here about precipitating minerals or growing crystals, I thought I'd just add a story about an interesting question I received recently at the USGS. I help answer various questions that come to us from the public, some of which come over our "Ask-a-Geologist" email line, and others that come by phone, letter, or email, which often get referred to me if no one else knows how to answer them. So, one recent email question, and I don't think I'm breaking any confidentiality by just sharing this, asked whether it would be feasible to grow crystals of minerals large enough to incorporate into or actually construct, the walls of a house or building out of! We had a nice email chat about this; about different ways to grow crystals, how large are the synthetic crystals (such as quartz) that are grown now, the conditions needed for such crystal growth, the size (and cost) of synthetic gem crystals and whether one could ever scale these up to mega-size, etc.--whether one could just pour the right mix of ingredients into a mold, stand back, and voila!, pull out a multi-foot long crystal that would be durable enough to put into a wall, like building stone. I guess my answer was that such a thing is perhaps theoretically possible, but is very, very far removed from being practically feasible. (If any of you have any great inspriational ideas about this, let me know!) I've gotten some very unusual questions at the USGS, about minerals, gems, rocks, etc. Some people aren't always asking about practical things, I've also been asked for advice about concepts they are trying to incorporate into science fiction stories. cheers, Pete Modreski From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Jan 17 13:17:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Gary Brown) Date: Sat Jan 17 13:17:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) Message-ID: <013701c3dd3f$3b9d0450$6701a8c0@moose> Hi Guys. A friend of mine has an agate, and he's wondering "what's it worth". = See it at: http://www.catspaw-minerals.com/agate.htm Nice and solid. Sweetwater, I think. Lemmee know, eh? Thanks. Gary Brown www.catspaw-minerals.com Home of MasMils/PLUS Mine Location CD-ROM --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Jan 17 13:55:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sat Jan 17 13:55:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <013701c3dd3f$3b9d0450$6701a8c0@moose> References: <013701c3dd3f$3b9d0450$6701a8c0@moose> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040117135204.01d58ec0@mail.spiritone.com> Could be lots of places Gary, Paiute agate from SE Oregon looks like that, and several ranches in the Ashwood area have very similar material. I bet there are other locations I am not familiar with as well that look about the same. At 01:16 PM 1/17/2004, you wrote: >Hi Guys. > >A friend of mine has an agate, and he's wondering "what's it worth". See it >at: > >http://www.catspaw-minerals.com/agate.htm > >Nice and solid. Sweetwater, I think. > >Lemmee know, eh? Thanks. > >Gary Brown >www.catspaw-minerals.com >Home of MasMils/PLUS Mine Location CD-ROM Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Jan 17 17:59:16 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Jan 17 17:59:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles References: <011620041952.2567.2b9a@att.net> <001001c3dc7e$7318c8e0$539f77d5@axel> <40086CAF.C3864E@att.net> <000701c3dcfb$5ac1acd0$4a9e77d5@axel> Message-ID: <4009E856.3D8A@Tomaszewski.net> Axel Emmermann wrote: > > P.S. When I finish this semester of college chemistry, I should be able > > to create some of my own wild recipes. > > One wart from a witches nose and two wings of a bat... > > > Lanthanum hexaboride, anyone? > > As used in ??? > Better quality, oriented single crystal, expensive, point cathodes for electron microscopes. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Jan 17 18:10:59 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sat Jan 17 18:10:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui Marbles In-Reply-To: <40080C1A.3080300@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: <20040118020105.3D342EB0471@delivery.infowest.com> Hi, Margaret. Hi, John; >Yes it does seem strange that they should form as round concretions and formation, and there are plenty of things that happened above it that >have been eroded away. Very true! <....I think we sometimes underestimate the power of water to transport. It's The interesting thing is the chemistry. Why >did these iron ions "concrete" at a particular place? Water dissolved >the iron as ferrous and it was deposited as ferric iron. That involves a >change of oxidation state, which means that the concretions were formed >quite near the surface, as they are in bogs and fens even now. Was it as >suggested, some organic matter that triggered the change? Or something >else? There is no direct evidence for anything, so Pete's little mystery >remains intact (thank goodness; Lord, what would it be like if we knew >everything!) Right on! Margaret _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Jan 17 18:19:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sat Jan 17 18:19:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles In-Reply-To: <36.4f6180dc.2d39934b@aol.com> Message-ID: <20040118021835.DE901EAB676@delivery.infowest.com> Hi Margaret - thanx for your comment, and multiple thanx for your offer to see if you can find marbles in matrix outside the park!! On your question re the silica gel - I don't mean to suggest that silica gel was necessary for "marble" formation, my (slight) investigation back in England leads me to suspect that a fine sand matrix could serve just as well and the sand I've found in the "marbles" I've opened is quite fine. Jim Hi, Jim OK. No, you didn't suggest silica gel; someone else had suggested it earlier. So I sort of leaped in that direction. Margaret --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Jan 17 18:25:04 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sat Jan 17 18:25:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles In-Reply-To: <011620041952.2567.2b9a@att.net> Message-ID: <20040118022446.8AC9CEAFB75@delivery.infowest.com> Thanks, Don. But -- where in nature would one expect to find the HCl to make this silica gel.? (Since we were talking about a natural process.) I think someone suggested earlier that the silica gel (necessary in his theory) was made by the limonite being subjected to great pressure?? Growing crystals your style sounds really fascinating! I can remember long ago growing copper sulfate crystals on a string--!! Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of morningstar@att.net Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 12:52 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles You can make your own gel Margaret! 1. Buy cheap specimen of Mexican hemimorphite 2. Break off clear blades, trying to keep the limonite out of the mix, and gently crush them. A tablespoon full is enough for your first test. 3. Obtain 50 to 100 ml of hydrochloric or muriatic acid, 25 to 37%. 4. In a small glass container, 150 to 250 ml, add the hemimorphite and then slowly add the acid. 5. After some period of time, you will have your gel! I have grown crystals in this gel by accident; my matrix was not just hemimorphite, but also a hydrous hydrated iron oxide along with miscellanous lead, zinc, and sulfur compounds. Some nice, clear, needle-like crystals grew. Perhaps some of the chemists can suggest safe and interesting compounds to add to the mix in order to grow nice crystals. Have fun, Don _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Jan 17 18:53:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Jan 17 18:53:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles References: <20040118022446.8AC9CEAFB75@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: <4009F4F1.4F58@Tomaszewski.net> Margaret Malm wrote: > > Thanks, Don. > But -- where in nature would one expect to find the HCl to make this silica > gel.? (Since we were talking about a natural process.) > I think someone suggested earlier that the silica gel (necessary in his > theory) was made by the limonite being subjected to great pressure?? My theory included a limonite gel (mixed with sand?), caused by the limonite being under pressure (under water). The trigger I proposed for converting the limonite gel into a hematite shell was hot gas bubbles from volcanic venting. Someone else introduced silaca gel into the discussion. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Jan 17 19:06:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Jan 17 19:06:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles In-Reply-To: <4009F4F1.4F58@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: If acid is required, you can find acidic solutions associated with volcanos and hotspots like Yellowstone. From the comment about Acetic acid, it wouldn't have to be an especially strong mineral acid either. Bryan Samuel Adams advised, "Let us contemplate our forefathers, and posterity, and resolve to maintain the rights bequeathed to us from the former, for the sake of the latter." > > Margaret Malm wrote: > > > > Thanks, Don. > > But -- where in nature would one expect to find the HCl to make > this silica > > gel.? (Since we were talking about a natural process.) > > I think someone suggested earlier that the silica gel (necessary in his > > theory) was made by the limonite being subjected to great pressure?? > > My theory included a limonite gel (mixed with sand?), caused by the > limonite being under pressure (under water). The trigger I proposed for > converting the limonite gel into a hematite shell was hot gas bubbles > from volcanic venting. > > Someone else introduced silaca gel into the discussion. > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Jan 17 19:32:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Jan 17 19:32:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles References: Message-ID: <4009FE08.77BA@Tomaszewski.net> J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > If acid is required, you can find acidic solutions associated with volcanos > and hotspots like Yellowstone. From the comment about Acetic acid, it > wouldn't have to be an especially strong mineral acid either. Or tannic acid from forest runoff. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Jan 17 19:45:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sat Jan 17 19:45:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles In-Reply-To: <003501c3dd11$bc39e840$dda3490c@pete> Message-ID: <20040118034422.ABA42EA8CF8@delivery.infowest.com> Dear List, Along with all these various comments & advice that's appeared here about precipitating minerals or growing crystals, I thought I'd just add a story about an interesting question I received recently at the USGS. I help answer various questions that come to us from the public, some of which come over our "Ask-a-Geologist" email line, and others that come by phone, letter, or email, which often get referred to me if no one else knows how to answer them. So, one recent email question, and I don't think I'm breaking any confidentiality by just sharing this, asked whether it would be feasible to grow crystals of minerals large enough to incorporate into or actually construct, the walls of a house or building out of! We had a nice email chat about this; about different ways to grow crystals, how large are the synthetic crystals (such as quartz) that are grown now, the conditions needed for such crystal growth, the size (and cost) of synthetic gem crystals and whether one could ever scale these up to mega-size, etc.--whether one could just pour the right mix of ingredients into a mold, stand back, and voila!, pull out a multi-foot long crystal that would be durable enough to put into a wall, like building stone. I guess my answer was that such a thing is perhaps theoretically possible, but is very, very far removed from being practically feasible. (If any of you have any great inspriational ideas about this, let me know!) I've gotten some very unusual questions at the USGS, about minerals, gems, rocks, etc. Some people aren't always asking about practical things, I've also been asked for advice about concepts they are trying to incorporate into science fiction stories. cheers, Pete Modreski That is an interesting question to speculate on, Peter. Sometime wild questions and speculation like that can be a lot of fun, as well as a challenge. Near St. George, Ut is an old Selenite mine. The selenite grew in huge flat layered glass-clear sheets, that the pioneers used as a substitute for glass in their windows. I can see (have been at the mine), that the sheets are large enough that it would be quite possible to fit them together into a house-sized shell. I would, of course, need a LOT of supporting structure. I don't think it would be very satisfactory, though -- not only from the strength standpoint, but because it would scratch very easily. And who would want to live in a "glass house"? Margaret _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Jan 17 23:15:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kris Murray) Date: Sat Jan 17 23:15:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <013701c3dd3f$3b9d0450$6701a8c0@moose> References: <013701c3dd3f$3b9d0450$6701a8c0@moose> Message-ID: =BF=BF$6 to $10 per pound depending, is what i would a decent range = would=20 be. ~KM Computers are useless; they can only give answers. -- Picasso On Jan 17, 2004, at 1:16 PM, Gary Brown wrote: > A friend of mine has an agate, and he's wondering "what's it worth". =20= > See it > at: > > http://www.catspaw-minerals.com/agate.htm > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 18 01:14:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (jb) Date: Sun Jan 18 01:14:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Natural Acids Message-ID: <400A4484.2090501@hal-pc.org> Acetic Acid is vinegar, a natural product. It is easy to produce acids under ordinary conditions. Coal can be ignited by lightning and burn for a long time. The slag plus rain water usually produces sulfurous acid in quantity, which can be rust-colored from the iron present. It's a big pollution problem in old strip mines. Marcesite (and pyrite over a longer time period) will react with water to produce a nice acidic mess. And silicates are everywhere in clays and igneous rocks. john From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 18 02:49:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Jan 18 02:49:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles References: <011620041952.2567.2b9a@att.net> <001001c3dc7e$7318c8e0$539f77d5@axel> <40086CAF.C3864E@att.net> <000701c3dcfb$5ac1acd0$4a9e77d5@axel> <4009E856.3D8A@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000901c3ddb0$ac3a4b70$8aae77d5@axel> The Scanning Tunneling kind? Or the plain kitchen variety? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 2:59 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > P.S. When I finish this semester of college chemistry, I should be able > > > to create some of my own wild recipes. > > > > One wart from a witches nose and two wings of a bat... > > > > > Lanthanum hexaboride, anyone? > > > > As used in ??? > > > > Better quality, oriented single crystal, expensive, point cathodes for > electron microscopes. > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 18 03:00:04 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Jan 18 03:00:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles References: <20040118022446.8AC9CEAFB75@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: <001301c3ddb2$1d97a320$8aae77d5@axel> > But -- where in nature would one expect to find the HCl to make this silica > gel.? (Since we were talking about a natural process.) Hi Margaret, even CO2 in water can dissociate soluble silikates under high pressure and at elevated temperatures (that's why I suggested to boil the demineralised water before making a stock solution of diluted waterglas. It would harden if you didn't get the CO2 out of the water.) In geothermic water you'll often find CO2, H2S, HF, HCl, H2SO3, H2SO4, H3BO3....... all acids and most of 'm probably strong enough to react with hemimorphite given the right environment and time. Axel > I think someone suggested earlier that the silica gel (necessary in his > theory) was made by the limonite being subjected to great pressure?? > > Growing crystals your style sounds really fascinating! > I can remember long ago growing copper sulfate crystals on a string--!! > Margaret > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of morningstar@att.net > Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 12:52 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles > > > You can make your own gel Margaret! > > 1. Buy cheap specimen of Mexican hemimorphite > 2. Break off clear blades, trying to keep the limonite out of the mix, and > gently crush them. A tablespoon full is enough for your first test. > 3. Obtain 50 to 100 ml of hydrochloric or muriatic acid, 25 to 37%. > 4. In a small glass container, 150 to 250 ml, add the hemimorphite and then > slowly add the acid. > 5. After some period of time, you will have your gel! > > I have grown crystals in this gel by accident; my matrix was not just > hemimorphite, but also a hydrous hydrated iron oxide along with miscellanous > lead, zinc, and sulfur compounds. Some nice, clear, needle-like crystals > grew. Perhaps some of the chemists can suggest safe and interesting > compounds > to add to the mix in order to grow nice crystals. > > Have fun, > > Don > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 18 03:10:53 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Jan 18 03:10:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles References: <4009FE08.77BA@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <002301c3ddb2$f8389200$8aae77d5@axel> Or fulvic acid or humic acid (both decay product from wood and leaves which often produce white to tan fluorescence in calcite, gypsum and other minerals that are found in karst-regions)... They would probably not be strong enough to attack most silicates but the only soluble ones. The only one that is soluble under normal conditions is sodium metasilicate. Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 4:31 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > > If acid is required, you can find acidic solutions associated with volcanos > > and hotspots like Yellowstone. From the comment about Acetic acid, it > > wouldn't have to be an especially strong mineral acid either. > > Or tannic acid from forest runoff. > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 18 07:14:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun Jan 18 07:14:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <013701c3dd3f$3b9d0450$6701a8c0@moose> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040118070754.01e8d970@mail.spiritone.com> I'd put the value right at more like $10.00/lb., which is what Paiute goes for in small pieces from the miner (Dale Hewitt)...IMHO...P.S. look at Dale's pic; this is Paiute or my name isn't Gary Brown :) http://www.wcmining.com/ws/1FS/fs.html At 11:14 PM 1/17/2004, you wrote: >¿¿$6 to $10 per pound depending, is what i would a decent range would be. >~KM > > >Computers are useless; they can only give answers. -- Picasso >On Jan 17, 2004, at 1:16 PM, Gary Brown wrote: > >>A friend of mine has an agate, and he's wondering "what's it worth". >>See it >>at: >> >>http://www.catspaw-minerals.com/agate.htm > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/enriched >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 18 07:19:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Don H) Date: Sun Jan 18 07:19:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles References: <011620041952.2567.2b9a@att.net> <001001c3dc7e$7318c8e0$539f77d5@axel> <40086CAF.C3864E@att.net> <000701c3dcfb$5ac1acd0$4a9e77d5@axel> <4009E856.3D8A@Tomaszewski.net> <000901c3ddb0$ac3a4b70$8aae77d5@axel> Message-ID: <400AA4C3.5528C84D@att.net> Axel Emmermann wrote: > > The Scanning Tunneling kind? > Or the plain kitchen variety? >From my class notes, a LaB6 filament provides high resolution at large current. You cannot simply screw one into any SEM; the unit needs to be made for it. We didn't spend too much time on this in class, and I get the impression these are not in such widespread use as the standard tungsten filaments. The crystals are a beautiful transparent purple. Don From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 18 07:27:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Sharon Behmann) Date: Sun Jan 18 07:27:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) - dendritic agate In-Reply-To: <013701c3dd3f$3b9d0450$6701a8c0@moose> Message-ID: I have an almost identical slab - it is Spanish Point agate from Wyoming. My approx. 5 inch x 5 inch slab cost me $31, but I won it on eBay, and that price could just depend on who else might have been after it at the same time? Sharon On Saturday, January 17, 2004, at 04:16 PM, Gary Brown wrote: > Hi Guys. > > A friend of mine has an agate, and he's wondering "what's it worth". > See it > at: > > http://www.catspaw-minerals.com/agate.htm > > Nice and solid. Sweetwater, I think. > > Lemmee know, eh? Thanks. > > Gary Brown From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 18 08:18:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Dean Welder) Date: Sun Jan 18 08:18:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New here, intro and Q/A about Ashwood Message-ID: <20040118161736.88857.qmail@web10101.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Gang, I'm new to this particular list. I found out about it via John Stockwell. John gave a very nice presentation to the club I'm in, Santa Cruz Mineral and Gem Society, just the other day about thundereggs. My wife and I are the field trip co-chairs for our club. I'm also a past president and we are both "past directors." I had always been a little interested in rocks and minerals but never really a collector. She was more of a collector. Now we collect together, sell a little here and there, and use collecting as an excuse for seeing some beatiful country. For us, the "getting out of dodge" is as important as the collecting itself, if ya know what I mean. Back to Ashwood: During the meeting John came to, I was reminding the club about a major field trip that we are planning. It is going to the Madras, Oregon area. My wife and I have been several times, including once going to the Memorial Day "Rockstock" event. However, each time we've gone there is one mine/claim that we wanted to go to but it has been closed. So, I've been in contact with the owner of the mine and making arrangements to go there some time during the Memorial Day weekend. I also was trying to find out if the Ashwood Rockstock digs would be happening this year and could make a combined trip for our plans. John mentioned to me that the Ashwood event had been discussed here. I also quickly perused the list archives and saw Tim's reply. I looked up the Ashwood website (did you know they had their own site?) and tried to email Darrell/Cathy but the message bounced. The site content is also a little stale. Did anymore info come out, perhaps off-list? Dang this message sure seems to be rambling. Hope it makes sense when you read it. Dean __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 18 08:55:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sun Jan 18 08:55:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles In-Reply-To: <001301c3ddb2$1d97a320$8aae77d5@axel> Message-ID: <20040118165421.6F9CFEAB6BE@delivery.infowest.com> -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 3:59 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles >> But -- where in nature would one expect to find the HCl to make this silica >> gel.? (Since we were talking about a natural process.) >Hi Margaret, >even CO2 in water can dissociate soluble silikates under high pressure and >at elevated temperatures (that's why I suggested to boil the demineralised >water before making a stock solution of diluted waterglas. It would harden >if you didn't get the CO2 out of the water.) >In geothermic water you'll often find CO2, H2S, HF, HCl, H2SO3, H2SO4, >H3BO3....... all acids and most of 'm probably strong enough to react with >hemimorphite given the right environment and time. Axel Ah, yes, of course! I'm just not thinking very deeply any more, I guess. Thanks! Margaret _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 18 09:17:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Stephen Stover) Date: Sun Jan 18 09:17:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Natural Acids In-Reply-To: <400A4484.2090501@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: <20040118171612.36626.qmail@web20026.mail.yahoo.com> Cave bacteria can produce large amounts of Sulfuric acid. This is one mech. to produce large caverns in limestone. the acid form the bacteria increases the size of the cave dramatically. --- jb wrote: > Acetic Acid is vinegar, a natural product. > > It is easy to produce acids under ordinary > conditions. Coal can be > ignited by lightning and burn for a long time. The > slag plus rain water > usually produces sulfurous acid in quantity, which > can be rust-colored > from the iron present. It's a big pollution problem > in old strip mines. > > Marcesite (and pyrite over a longer time period) > will react with water > to produce a nice acidic mess. And silicates are > everywhere in clays and > igneous rocks. > > john > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ===== Stephen F. Stover PH (281) 829-1102 xossfs@yahoo.com Wanting to hunt rocks and play games every day! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 18 09:49:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Jan 18 09:49:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] volcano Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040118075021.029c8ec0@mail.aloha.net> Hi List, Here's a head's-up for those who don't regularly check the USGS site below: there are great new pictures posted of the activity in the Pu'u O'o crater. On January 16th lava flowed over the rim of the crater for the first time since 1998. Some of the pictures are definitely worth clicking on "large" in order to see spatter frozen in the air, splashing and oozing flows, and photographers nearby for scale. http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/main.html Also if you missed past ones, click on "Image Archives." July and August of 2002 was when the lava was going into the ocean. Aloha, Kitty PS. It still gives us an enormous sense of wonder that from our home we can see the glow at night, and a column of smoke in the daytime, from an active volcano! --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 18 10:00:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun Jan 18 10:00:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New here, intro and Q/A about Ashwood In-Reply-To: <20040118161736.88857.qmail@web10101.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040118161736.88857.qmail@web10101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040118094752.01e60cd8@mail.spiritone.com> Dean, feel free to call me, I know more about Ashwood than any person has a right to ;) 503 631-7236. If you mean Ron Ochs, good for you, he rarely lets people dig the Pony Creek bed. Terry Ensell & I got his permission in October, and we left plenty of huge eggs in the ground (alright we didn't leave any exposed lol). As I am sure you are aware, their website is very stale, having been put up by Cathy one day about 4 years ago and never touched since. That's why I never point anyone to it for info. Call Darrell, he is listed, or call me for his #. I don't see any reason they wouldn't have the Memorial Day dig, but I can only speculate that Friends and possibly Marstons and MacDonalds will be participating. If they got insurance, Ochs would allow digging but it is about $400 and is the reason they don't get many more ranches participating like the Mt. Hood Rock Club did (we have had Ochs, Keegan, Nartz, John Friend, and other participants in the past when the club ran the event). Another possibility for an organized trip is the former Big Muddy ranch, aka Rajneeshpuram of late, now a Christian Camp. Darrell and a few from the club talked to the management a few years back and they seemed willing but nothing ever came of it. I am sure I will be there as I need Marston agate bad and I am going to try a jackhammer on some of the old beds on MacDonalds that have great jasp-agate that is inaccessible with hand tools. And there is a new egg bed on Trollin property (not the one Terry & I found about 7 years ago) that is accessible for those in-the-know ;) At 08:17 AM 1/18/2004, you wrote: >Hi Gang, > >I'm new to this particular list. I found out about it via John >Stockwell. John gave a very nice presentation to the club I'm in, Santa >Cruz Mineral and Gem Society, just the other day about thundereggs. > >My wife and I are the field trip co-chairs for our club. I'm also a >past president and we are both "past directors." I had always been a >little interested in rocks and minerals but never really a collector. >She was more of a collector. Now we collect together, sell a little >here and there, and use collecting as an excuse for seeing some >beatiful country. For us, the "getting out of dodge" is as important as >the collecting itself, if ya know what I mean. > >Back to Ashwood: During the meeting John came to, I was reminding the >club about a major field trip that we are planning. It is going to the >Madras, Oregon area. My wife and I have been several times, including >once going to the Memorial Day "Rockstock" event. However, each time >we've gone there is one mine/claim that we wanted to go to but it has >been closed. So, I've been in contact with the owner of the mine and >making arrangements to go there some time during the Memorial Day >weekend. I also was trying to find out if the Ashwood Rockstock digs >would be happening this year and could make a combined trip for our >plans. > >John mentioned to me that the Ashwood event had been discussed here. I >also quickly perused the list archives and saw Tim's reply. I looked up >the Ashwood website (did you know they had their own site?) and tried >to email Darrell/Cathy but the message bounced. The site content is >also a little stale. Did anymore info come out, perhaps off-list? > >Dang this message sure seems to be rambling. Hope it makes sense when >you read it. > >Dean > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes >http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 18 10:56:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (JOHN STOCKWELL) Date: Sun Jan 18 10:56:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New here, intro and Q/A about Ashwood References: <20040118161736.88857.qmail@web10101.mail.yahoo.com> <6.0.1.1.2.20040118094752.01e60cd8@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: Tim, You use the past tense in connection with the Mt. Hood Club. Do you know = if at least several ranches will be open during the Madras Pow Wow? It's = my intention to take a CFMS trip up there. John ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tim Fisher=20 To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com=20 Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New here, intro and Q/A about Ashwood Dean, feel free to call me, I know more about Ashwood than any person = has a=20 right to ;) 503 631-7236. If you mean Ron Ochs, good for you, he = rarely=20 lets people dig the Pony Creek bed. Terry Ensell & I got his = permission in=20 October, and we left plenty of huge eggs in the ground (alright we = didn't=20 leave any exposed lol). As I am sure you are aware, their website is = very=20 stale, having been put up by Cathy one day about 4 years ago and never = touched since. That's why I never point anyone to it for info. Call=20 Darrell, he is listed, or call me for his #. I don't see any reason = they=20 wouldn't have the Memorial Day dig, but I can only speculate that = Friends=20 and possibly Marstons and MacDonalds will be participating. If they = got=20 insurance, Ochs would allow digging but it is about $400 and is the = reason=20 they don't get many more ranches participating like the Mt. Hood Rock = Club=20 did (we have had Ochs, Keegan, Nartz, John Friend, and other = participants=20 in the past when the club ran the event). Another possibility for an=20 organized trip is the former Big Muddy ranch, aka Rajneeshpuram of = late,=20 now a Christian Camp. Darrell and a few from the club talked to the=20 management a few years back and they seemed willing but nothing ever = came=20 of it. I am sure I will be there as I need Marston agate bad and I am = going=20 to try a jackhammer on some of the old beds on MacDonalds that have = great=20 jasp-agate that is inaccessible with hand tools. And there is a new = egg bed=20 on Trollin property (not the one Terry & I found about 7 years ago) = that is=20 accessible for those in-the-know ;) At 08:17 AM 1/18/2004, you wrote: >Hi Gang, > >I'm new to this particular list. I found out about it via John >Stockwell. John gave a very nice presentation to the club I'm in, = Santa >Cruz Mineral and Gem Society, just the other day about thundereggs. > >My wife and I are the field trip co-chairs for our club. I'm also a >past president and we are both "past directors." I had always been a >little interested in rocks and minerals but never really a collector. >She was more of a collector. Now we collect together, sell a little >here and there, and use collecting as an excuse for seeing some >beatiful country. For us, the "getting out of dodge" is as important = as >the collecting itself, if ya know what I mean. > >Back to Ashwood: During the meeting John came to, I was reminding the >club about a major field trip that we are planning. It is going to = the >Madras, Oregon area. My wife and I have been several times, including >once going to the Memorial Day "Rockstock" event. However, each time >we've gone there is one mine/claim that we wanted to go to but it has >been closed. So, I've been in contact with the owner of the mine and >making arrangements to go there some time during the Memorial Day >weekend. I also was trying to find out if the Ashwood Rockstock digs >would be happening this year and could make a combined trip for our >plans. > >John mentioned to me that the Ashwood event had been discussed here. = I >also quickly perused the list archives and saw Tim's reply. I looked = up >the Ashwood website (did you know they had their own site?) and tried >to email Darrell/Cathy but the message bounced. The site content is >also a little stale. Did anymore info come out, perhaps off-list? > >Dang this message sure seems to be rambling. Hope it makes sense when >you read it. > >Dean > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes >http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore=20 _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 18 12:45:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Ann Bloom-Dickison) Date: Sun Jan 18 12:45:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] volcano References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040118075021.029c8ec0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <002801c3de03$e0ace040$5db523d0@anndickison> Thanks Kitty, for the reminders to check out Kilauea. I was there several years ago with a group from Eastern Oregon University (geology field trip) and can't wait to go back. I forget to check the website regularly and appreciate your updates. Ann From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 18 13:28:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun Jan 18 13:28:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New here, intro and Q/A about Ashwood In-Reply-To: References: <20040118161736.88857.qmail@web10101.mail.yahoo.com> <6.0.1.1.2.20040118094752.01e60cd8@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040118132553.01e535b0@mail.spiritone.com> That's a question for the All Rockhounds' PowWow chairman, he should be listed on their website. I will be there so if they don't do it we will go on our own :) I have never had a problem getting permission to dig any of the ranches. Mt Hood was never involved in the PowWow trips, only Memorial and Labor Day... At 10:55 AM 1/18/2004, you wrote: >Tim, > >You use the past tense in connection with the Mt. Hood Club. Do you know >if at least several ranches will be open during the Madras Pow Wow? It's >my intention to take a CFMS trip up there. > >John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tim Fisher > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 9:59 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New here, intro and Q/A about Ashwood > > > Dean, feel free to call me, I know more about Ashwood than any person > has a > right to ;) 503 631-7236. If you mean Ron Ochs, good for you, he rarely > lets people dig the Pony Creek bed. Terry Ensell & I got his permission in > October, and we left plenty of huge eggs in the ground (alright we didn't > leave any exposed lol). As I am sure you are aware, their website is very > stale, having been put up by Cathy one day about 4 years ago and never > touched since. That's why I never point anyone to it for info. Call > Darrell, he is listed, or call me for his #. I don't see any reason they > wouldn't have the Memorial Day dig, but I can only speculate that Friends > and possibly Marstons and MacDonalds will be participating. If they got > insurance, Ochs would allow digging but it is about $400 and is the reason > they don't get many more ranches participating like the Mt. Hood Rock Club > did (we have had Ochs, Keegan, Nartz, John Friend, and other participants > in the past when the club ran the event). Another possibility for an > organized trip is the former Big Muddy ranch, aka Rajneeshpuram of late, > now a Christian Camp. Darrell and a few from the club talked to the > management a few years back and they seemed willing but nothing ever came > of it. I am sure I will be there as I need Marston agate bad and I am > going > to try a jackhammer on some of the old beds on MacDonalds that have great > jasp-agate that is inaccessible with hand tools. And there is a new egg > bed > on Trollin property (not the one Terry & I found about 7 years ago) > that is > accessible for those in-the-know ;) > > At 08:17 AM 1/18/2004, you wrote: > >Hi Gang, > > > >I'm new to this particular list. I found out about it via John > >Stockwell. John gave a very nice presentation to the club I'm in, Santa > >Cruz Mineral and Gem Society, just the other day about thundereggs. > > > >My wife and I are the field trip co-chairs for our club. I'm also a > >past president and we are both "past directors." I had always been a > >little interested in rocks and minerals but never really a collector. > >She was more of a collector. Now we collect together, sell a little > >here and there, and use collecting as an excuse for seeing some > >beatiful country. For us, the "getting out of dodge" is as important as > >the collecting itself, if ya know what I mean. > > > >Back to Ashwood: During the meeting John came to, I was reminding the > >club about a major field trip that we are planning. It is going to the > >Madras, Oregon area. My wife and I have been several times, including > >once going to the Memorial Day "Rockstock" event. However, each time > >we've gone there is one mine/claim that we wanted to go to but it has > >been closed. So, I've been in contact with the owner of the mine and > >making arrangements to go there some time during the Memorial Day > >weekend. I also was trying to find out if the Ashwood Rockstock digs > >would be happening this year and could make a combined trip for our > >plans. > > > >John mentioned to me that the Ashwood event had been discussed here. I > >also quickly perused the list archives and saw Tim's reply. I looked up > >the Ashwood website (did you know they had their own site?) and tried > >to email Darrell/Cathy but the message bounced. The site content is > >also a little stale. Did anymore info come out, perhaps off-list? > > > >Dang this message sure seems to be rambling. Hope it makes sense when > >you read it. > > > >Dean > > > > > > > >__________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes > >http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD > Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary > Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers > Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale > Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 18 15:13:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Jan 18 15:13:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles References: <20040118165421.6F9CFEAB6BE@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: <005101c3de18$7b701430$2cae77d5@axel> Hi Margaret > Ah, yes, of course! I'm just not thinking very deeply any more, I guess. I never did that, so you 'd better have my two cent worth checked out by a geologist (I'm not a geologist, anyway) ;-))) I should have written "I think this is what happens" but I always get carried away. LOL Cheers Axel > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 18 15:29:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sun Jan 18 15:29:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mas Mils In-Reply-To: <002801c3de03$e0ace040$5db523d0@anndickison> Message-ID: Hi All, For those of you who use Topo USA by Delorme to look for mines. I adapted the Mas Mils database so all Mas Mil data could be visible with Topo USA. I just took the original shape file from http://tin.er.usgs.gov/metadata/masmils.faq.html added coordinates, clipped the file to the USA, threw away most of the data and converted the table to an ASCII file. This ascii file is available for all of you at my homepage http://maurice.strahlen.org (at the bottom of the first page). To use this file simply save it somewhere. Open Topo USA, go to draw, then file, then import select txt and the file and you will have between 100.000 and 200.000 localities on your Topo USA :-) Cheers, Maurice From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 18 16:05:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (JOHN STOCKWELL) Date: Sun Jan 18 16:05:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New here, intro and Q/A about Ashwood References: <20040118161736.88857.qmail@web10101.mail.yahoo.com> <6.0.1.1.2.20040118094752.01e60cd8@mail.spiritone.com> <6.0.1.1.2.20040118132553.01e535b0@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Tim! John ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tim Fisher=20 To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com=20 Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 1:27 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New here, intro and Q/A about Ashwood That's a question for the All Rockhounds' PowWow chairman, he should = be=20 listed on their website. I will be there so if they don't do it we = will go=20 on our own :) I have never had a problem getting permission to dig any = of=20 the ranches. Mt Hood was never involved in the PowWow trips, only = Memorial=20 and Labor Day... At 10:55 AM 1/18/2004, you wrote: >Tim, > >You use the past tense in connection with the Mt. Hood Club. Do you = know=20 >if at least several ranches will be open during the Madras Pow Wow? = It's=20 >my intention to take a CFMS trip up there. > >John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tim Fisher > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 9:59 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New here, intro and Q/A about Ashwood > > > Dean, feel free to call me, I know more about Ashwood than any = person=20 > has a > right to ;) 503 631-7236. If you mean Ron Ochs, good for you, he = rarely > lets people dig the Pony Creek bed. Terry Ensell & I got his = permission in > October, and we left plenty of huge eggs in the ground (alright we = didn't > leave any exposed lol). As I am sure you are aware, their website = is very > stale, having been put up by Cathy one day about 4 years ago and = never > touched since. That's why I never point anyone to it for info. = Call > Darrell, he is listed, or call me for his #. I don't see any = reason they > wouldn't have the Memorial Day dig, but I can only speculate that = Friends > and possibly Marstons and MacDonalds will be participating. If = they got > insurance, Ochs would allow digging but it is about $400 and is = the reason > they don't get many more ranches participating like the Mt. Hood = Rock Club > did (we have had Ochs, Keegan, Nartz, John Friend, and other = participants > in the past when the club ran the event). Another possibility for = an > organized trip is the former Big Muddy ranch, aka Rajneeshpuram of = late, > now a Christian Camp. Darrell and a few from the club talked to = the > management a few years back and they seemed willing but nothing = ever came > of it. I am sure I will be there as I need Marston agate bad and I = am=20 > going > to try a jackhammer on some of the old beds on MacDonalds that = have great > jasp-agate that is inaccessible with hand tools. And there is a = new egg=20 > bed > on Trollin property (not the one Terry & I found about 7 years = ago)=20 > that is > accessible for those in-the-know ;) > > At 08:17 AM 1/18/2004, you wrote: > >Hi Gang, > > > >I'm new to this particular list. I found out about it via John > >Stockwell. John gave a very nice presentation to the club I'm in, = Santa > >Cruz Mineral and Gem Society, just the other day about = thundereggs. > > > >My wife and I are the field trip co-chairs for our club. I'm also = a > >past president and we are both "past directors." I had always = been a > >little interested in rocks and minerals but never really a = collector. > >She was more of a collector. Now we collect together, sell a = little > >here and there, and use collecting as an excuse for seeing some > >beatiful country. For us, the "getting out of dodge" is as = important as > >the collecting itself, if ya know what I mean. > > > >Back to Ashwood: During the meeting John came to, I was reminding = the > >club about a major field trip that we are planning. It is going = to the > >Madras, Oregon area. My wife and I have been several times, = including > >once going to the Memorial Day "Rockstock" event. However, each = time > >we've gone there is one mine/claim that we wanted to go to but it = has > >been closed. So, I've been in contact with the owner of the mine = and > >making arrangements to go there some time during the Memorial Day > >weekend. I also was trying to find out if the Ashwood Rockstock = digs > >would be happening this year and could make a combined trip for = our > >plans. > > > >John mentioned to me that the Ashwood event had been discussed = here. I > >also quickly perused the list archives and saw Tim's reply. I = looked up > >the Ashwood website (did you know they had their own site?) and = tried > >to email Darrell/Cathy but the message bounced. The site content = is > >also a little stale. Did anymore info come out, perhaps off-list? > > > >Dang this message sure seems to be rambling. Hope it makes sense = when > >you read it. > > > >Dean > > > > > > > >__________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes > >http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD > Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary > Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers > Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale > Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore=20 _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 18 16:18:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Gary Brown) Date: Sun Jan 18 16:18:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040118070754.01e8d970@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <00cd01c3de21$92e082e0$6701a8c0@moose> Duh... I have a Baaaaddddd memory... Spanish Point is the location. Elicited from my friend over dinner after seeing the movie "Calendar Girls". Good flick! But I digress... Thanks for all the notes so far... GcB PS. I buy ellipses wholesale! From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 18 16:32:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Gary Brown) Date: Sun Jan 18 16:32:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mas Mils In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00d101c3de23$86e4a960$6701a8c0@moose> Nice work, Maurice. But, if you don't' want to hassle with separating out the data I've got my good-old "MasMils/PLUS" that has a county-by-county extract of the data, a state-by-commodity extract (such as "show me all the iron in Minnesota"), plus Access and Excel conversions of the data, along with an image of the original MasMils USBM disk. You can see info at: http://www.catspaw-minerals.com/Masmils%20PLUS.htm And, I've been remiss! Here's a sample set for Jefferson County, Colorado: http://www.catspaw-minerals.com/sample_masmils.htm I've also recently added a section on the MasMils data defines. You can get to that at: http://www.catspaw-minerals.com/masmils_data_defines.htm I'm working with some new GPS translation stuff right now, so stay tuned. Gary http://www.catspaw-minerals.com > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Maurice de Graaf > Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 5:28 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Mas Mils > > > Hi All, > > For those of you who use Topo USA by Delorme to look for .... From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 18 17:16:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sun Jan 18 17:16:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ?about arkansas quarts and gold? Message-ID: <149.2076d7d9.2d3c89b8@aol.com> Hey everyone, I have a question about gold related to quarts and why Arkansas' quarts does not contain gold. Or much of it. Since there is so much quartz there in arkansas why is there not more known gold associations. I live and grew up in north east Texas and it is predominatly red iron ore clay and rock. No quartz tho. Seems to stop around the border to Texas and Arkansas. Also, how far south does the crystal belt run? Much thanks, Kevin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 18 18:56:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Dean Welder) Date: Sun Jan 18 18:56:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New here, intro and Q/A about Ashwood In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040118094752.01e60cd8@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <20040119025530.57062.qmail@web10107.mail.yahoo.com> Tim, That's all great! You and I (and my wife) met several years ago at the Memorial Day event. Probably about 5 or 6 years now. Perhaps you recall our tailgate latch breaking so that we couldn't get into our camper and had to go to a body shop in Madras on Sunday to get it fixed! I will save your message and give you a call soon. Thanks for offering. Dean --- Tim Fisher wrote: > Dean, feel free to call me, I know more about Ashwood than any person > has a > right to ;) 503 631-7236. If you mean Ron Ochs, good for you, he > rarely > lets people dig the Pony Creek bed. Terry Ensell & I got his > permission in > October, and we left plenty of huge eggs in the ground (alright we > didn't > leave any exposed lol). As I am sure you are aware, their website is > very > stale, having been put up by Cathy one day about 4 years ago and > never > touched since. That's why I never point anyone to it for info. Call > Darrell, he is listed, or call me for his #. I don't see any reason > they > wouldn't have the Memorial Day dig, but I can only speculate that > Friends > and possibly Marstons and MacDonalds will be participating. If they > got > insurance, Ochs would allow digging but it is about $400 and is the > reason > they don't get many more ranches participating like the Mt. Hood Rock > Club > did (we have had Ochs, Keegan, Nartz, John Friend, and other > participants > in the past when the club ran the event). Another possibility for an > organized trip is the former Big Muddy ranch, aka Rajneeshpuram of > late, > now a Christian Camp. Darrell and a few from the club talked to the > management a few years back and they seemed willing but nothing ever > came > of it. I am sure I will be there as I need Marston agate bad and I am > going > to try a jackhammer on some of the old beds on MacDonalds that have > great > jasp-agate that is inaccessible with hand tools. And there is a new > egg bed > on Trollin property (not the one Terry & I found about 7 years ago) > that is > accessible for those in-the-know ;) > > At 08:17 AM 1/18/2004, you wrote: > >Hi Gang, > > > >I'm new to this particular list. I found out about it via John > >Stockwell. John gave a very nice presentation to the club I'm in, > Santa > >Cruz Mineral and Gem Society, just the other day about thundereggs. > > > >My wife and I are the field trip co-chairs for our club. I'm also a > >past president and we are both "past directors." I had always been a > >little interested in rocks and minerals but never really a > collector. > >She was more of a collector. Now we collect together, sell a little > >here and there, and use collecting as an excuse for seeing some > >beatiful country. For us, the "getting out of dodge" is as important > as > >the collecting itself, if ya know what I mean. > > > >Back to Ashwood: During the meeting John came to, I was reminding > the > >club about a major field trip that we are planning. It is going to > the > >Madras, Oregon area. My wife and I have been several times, > including > >once going to the Memorial Day "Rockstock" event. However, each time > >we've gone there is one mine/claim that we wanted to go to but it > has > >been closed. So, I've been in contact with the owner of the mine and > >making arrangements to go there some time during the Memorial Day > >weekend. I also was trying to find out if the Ashwood Rockstock digs > >would be happening this year and could make a combined trip for our > >plans. > > > >John mentioned to me that the Ashwood event had been discussed here. > I > >also quickly perused the list archives and saw Tim's reply. I looked > up > >the Ashwood website (did you know they had their own site?) and > tried > >to email Darrell/Cathy but the message bounced. The site content is > >also a little stale. Did anymore info come out, perhaps off-list? > > > >Dang this message sure seems to be rambling. Hope it makes sense > when > >you read it. > > > >Dean > > > > > > > >__________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes > >http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD > Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary > Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers > Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale > Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 18 19:14:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Jan 18 19:14:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ?about arkansas quarts and gold? References: <149.2076d7d9.2d3c89b8@aol.com> Message-ID: <400B4B45.589A@Tomaszewski.net> Paintricks@aol.com wrote: > > Hey everyone, > I have a question about gold related to quarts and why Arkansas' quarts > does not contain gold. Or much of it. Since there is so much quartz there in > arkansas why is there not more known gold associations. I live and grew up in > north east Texas and it is predominatly red iron ore clay and rock. No quartz > tho. Seems to stop around the border to Texas and Arkansas. Also, how far > south does the crystal belt run? > Much thanks, > Kevin Gold tends to be brought to the surface from underlying or surface (hot) volcanic rock (basalt) via hydrothermal action and deposited in low grade ores. There is often an association with (milky) quartz and/or fault lines. Secondary enrichment from erosion processes produces the really rich gold finds. Often the original source has been completely eroded and can only be inferred from the 'fossil' riverbeds it is found in. I'm sure a geologist could give you a better and more complete explanation, but this is my version of the quick summary. Hope it helps. Kreigh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 18 19:37:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (JOHN STOCKWELL) Date: Sun Jan 18 19:37:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Madras and Prineville Pow Wows/Madras/On this year?/Field Trips? Message-ID: I know the Prineville Pow Wow is set for 2004, but anybody out there = know what field trips are contemplated? Can't seem to find out if there'll be a Madras Pow Wow, also if the All = Rockhounds Club field trips are on again this year. Would appreciate any info. John --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 18 20:13:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kenneth Quinn) Date: Sun Jan 18 20:13:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ?about arkansas quarts and gold? References: <149.2076d7d9.2d3c89b8@aol.com> Message-ID: > I have a question about gold related to quarts and why Arkansas' quarts > does not contain gold. Or much of it. Since there is so much quartz > there in > arkansas why is there not more known gold associations. I live and grew > up in > north east Texas and it is predominatly red iron ore clay and rock. No > quartz > tho. Seems to stop around the border to Texas and Arkansas. Also, how > far > south does the crystal belt run? In very basic terms - gold is associated with hydrothermal activity at high temperatures and pressures, such as you see in the building of the Sierra Madres in California. The quartz in Arkansas was deposited at very low temperatures and pressures - and there was no source rock from which the gold could be derived, only sedimentary rock. The small amount of igneous rock present on the fringes of the Ouachitas was emplaced long after the quartz was deposited. The quartz only goes as far south as the Ouachita Mountains. If you draw a line down I-30 from Little Rock to Arkadelphia, then go straight west from that town, you will be just a bit south of the southern edge of the Ouachitas. Kenneth Quinn From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 18 20:24:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun Jan 18 20:24:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Madras and Prineville Pow Wows/Madras/On this year?/Field Trips? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040118202237.01e915b0@mail.spiritone.com> John, it took me 3 seconds to find the phone # on Google...(253)847-2755 from my site :D At 07:36 PM 1/18/2004, you wrote: I know the Prineville Pow Wow is set for 2004, but anybody out there know what field trips are contemplated? Can't seem to find out if there'll be a Madras Pow Wow, also if the All Rockhounds Club field trips are on again this year. Would appreciate any info. John --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 18 21:36:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sun Jan 18 21:36:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ?about arkansas quarts and gold? References: <149.2076d7d9.2d3c89b8@aol.com> Message-ID: <00f801c3de4e$49e89320$43a4490c@pete> Kevin, To add to the answers to you so far, in a word, there are many places in the country with quartz veins, but only in a very few of them do the quartz veins contain gold. As was said by Kenneth Quinn, different conditions produce different things; plain quartz, of course, is much more common than gold, that's why the one is valuable! An excellent website about Arkansas quartz crystals is, http://rockhoundingar.com/quartz/geology.html and it describes the fractured sandstones in which the Arkansas quartz crystals occur. Pete Modreski From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 19 01:15:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Dri) Date: Mon Jan 19 01:15:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ?about arkansas quarts and gold? References: <149.2076d7d9.2d3c89b8@aol.com> <400B4B45.589A@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <003801c3de6c$9be02c60$6701a8c0@dslverizon.net> The mountain ranges surrounding the Southern end of the Flint Creek Valley in Southwestern Montana where Philipsburg & the Ghost Town of Granite are located is loaded with Quartz. Native Granite is predominate there and the old mines produced either Black and Pink Manganese or Silver. In the Northern part of the Valley ( Princeton,Drummond, Garnet & Gold Creek locale), areas with Gold deposits worth mining were found. The heaviest concentrations of the Quartz are found in the areas where the Silver Mines and associated prospect holes are located. Gold was found there but not in quantities worth working the ore. 50 miles to the South in the Butte, MT area, Copper is King. To the East (Towards Helena), South (towards Livingston) and West (towards the Big Hole Valley & Wisdom) of Butte is where most of the Gold was found in Southwestern Montana. A few Uranium mines are located just the other side of the Continental Divide from Butte in the Boulder, MT area. Dri-Anna WA - USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 19:16 Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ?about arkansas quarts and gold? > Paintricks@aol.com wrote: > > > > Hey everyone, > > I have a question about gold related to quarts and why Arkansas' quarts > > does not contain gold. Or much of it. Since there is so much quartz there in > > arkansas why is there not more known gold associations. I live and grew up in > > north east Texas and it is predominatly red iron ore clay and rock. No quartz > > tho. Seems to stop around the border to Texas and Arkansas. Also, how far > > south does the crystal belt run? > > Much thanks, > > Kevin > > > Gold tends to be brought to the surface from underlying or surface (hot) > volcanic rock (basalt) via hydrothermal action and deposited in low > grade ores. There is often an association with (milky) quartz and/or > fault lines. > > Secondary enrichment from erosion processes produces the really rich > gold finds. Often the original source has been completely eroded and can > only be inferred from the 'fossil' riverbeds it is found in. > > I'm sure a geologist could give you a better and more complete > explanation, but this is my version of the quick summary. Hope it helps. > > Kreigh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 19 07:49:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Stephen Stover) Date: Mon Jan 19 07:49:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ?about arkansas quarts and gold? In-Reply-To: <149.2076d7d9.2d3c89b8@aol.com> Message-ID: <20040119154803.71099.qmail@web20025.mail.yahoo.com> Lemme try to e3xplain why there isn't any gold in the quartz of Arkansas and there is some samll amounts. Gold in quartz is produced by igneous intrusions. Granitc rocks produce hydrotheremal fluids enriched in metals that include gold. The grantic magma moves up through the rocks and reopens old fractures and infects the hydrothermal fluids into them. These fluids cool down and produce metal ladden veins. This is one way to produce the gold in quartz. Not all hydrothermal fluids have gold but most have quartz so, most viens do not have gold in them. However quartz crystals can be created other ways. In Arkansas the famous quartz crystal locations around MT. Ida were not created by hydrothermal fluids. There are large thick sandstone beds there. These beds were folded duing a mountian builinng process. Now think abount something that is very thick and bent. the bottom edge bends and remains the same length but the top edge has to stretch to bend along the same arch. (try it with clay) to stretch the distance required the top of the sandstone cracked adn left spaces in the sandstone. These spaces became the vugs the crystals would grow in. Now to fold the sandstone took great stress and a little heat. The pressure causes hot fluids to move through the rock and the best place to move was through the vugs. These fluids had quartz disollved in the liquid and as the liquid cooled the quartz crystals grew on the walls of the vugs. These fludis did not have any gold in them or anything else. That is why the crystals are so clean and clear. Hope this helps. Stephen of Houston TX --- Paintricks@aol.com wrote: > Hey everyone, > I have a question about gold related to quarts and > why Arkansas' quarts > does not contain gold. Or much of it. Since there > is so much quartz there in > arkansas why is there not more known gold > associations. I live and grew up in > north east Texas and it is predominatly red iron ore > clay and rock. No quartz > tho. Seems to stop around the border to Texas and > Arkansas. Also, how far > south does the crystal belt run? > Much thanks, > Kevin > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ===== Stephen F. Stover PH (281) 829-1102 xossfs@yahoo.com Wanting to hunt rocks and play games every day! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 19 07:59:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Gary Brown) Date: Mon Jan 19 07:59:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Space Center Houston In-Reply-To: <20040119154803.71099.qmail@web20025.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <019601c3dea5$1999dd30$6701a8c0@moose> My sweetie & I are heading down to Houston over President's day weekend. I seem to remember that some of the esteemed members of This Group work at the Space Center. If so, could you pop me a note "off list"? Dorothy's a teacher (and a confirmed "space nut" {not to mention as good a rockhound as I am! }) and if we could line up some "special" stuff it would be fun. Also... Any recommendations for shops or the like down there? Gary PS. Let's just hope it isn't like my present to her last year. It was a "good news / bad news" thing. We got trapped in our hotel in Washington DC by that bizarre snowstorm! If there is a blizzard in Houston over that weekend, well... If I were YOU I'd avoid traveling with US! From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 19 08:02:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Jan 19 08:02:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ?about arkansas quarts and gold? In-Reply-To: <20040119154803.71099.qmail@web20025.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Just as a matter of curiosity, what was the source of the North Georgia gold deposits? They were supposedly fairly extensive. Bryan Samuel Adams advised, "Let us contemplate our forefathers, and posterity, and resolve to maintain the rights bequeathed to us from the former, for the sake of the latter." > > Lemme try to e3xplain why there isn't any gold in the > quartz of Arkansas and there is some samll amounts. > > > Gold in quartz is produced by igneous intrusions. > Granitc rocks produce hydrotheremal fluids enriched in > metals that include gold. The grantic magma moves up > through the rocks and reopens old fractures and > infects the hydrothermal fluids into them. These > fluids cool down and produce metal ladden veins. This > is one way to produce the gold in quartz. Not all > hydrothermal fluids have gold but most have quartz so, > most viens do not have gold in them. > > However quartz crystals can be created other ways. > > In Arkansas the famous quartz crystal locations around > MT. Ida were not created by hydrothermal fluids. > > There are large thick sandstone beds there. These > beds were folded duing a mountian builinng process. > Now think abount something that is very thick and > bent. > > the bottom edge bends and remains the same length but > the top edge has to stretch to bend along the same > arch. (try it with clay) to stretch the distance > required the top of the sandstone cracked adn left > spaces in the sandstone. These spaces became the vugs > the crystals would grow in. Now to fold the sandstone > took great stress and a little heat. The pressure > causes hot fluids to move through the rock and the > best place to move was through the vugs. These fluids > had quartz disollved in the liquid and as the liquid > cooled the quartz crystals grew on the walls of the > vugs. > > These fludis did not have any gold in them or anything > else. That is why the crystals are so clean and > clear. Hope this helps. > > Stephen of Houston TX > --- Paintricks@aol.com wrote: > > Hey everyone, > > I have a question about gold related to quarts and > > why Arkansas' quarts > > does not contain gold. Or much of it. Since there > > is so much quartz there in > > arkansas why is there not more known gold > > associations. I live and grew up in > > north east Texas and it is predominatly red iron ore > > clay and rock. No quartz > > tho. Seems to stop around the border to Texas and > > Arkansas. Also, how far > > south does the crystal belt run? > > Much thanks, > > Kevin > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > ===== > Stephen F. Stover > PH (281) 829-1102 > xossfs@yahoo.com > > Wanting to hunt rocks > and play games every day! > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 19 08:10:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Stuart Schmitt) Date: Mon Jan 19 08:10:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ?about arkansas quarts and gold? References: <20040119154803.71099.qmail@web20025.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000b01c3dea6$96cb2920$6400a8c0@STUART> Hi Stephen, You wrote: > These fludis did not have any gold in them or anything > else. That is why the crystals are so clean and > clear. Hope this helps. While there are a number of Arkansas crystal mines in sandstone beds as you mention, there are also a lot of mines in shale beds that do not have any sandstone. In the shale beds, many crystals have shale inclusions (specks, chunks and phantoms). I've also found crystals with gold specks (probably not gold), what appears to be sand inclusions, possibly square chunks of galena and anchorite cubes, and green chloride inclusions. While I am not a geologist or expert in the rock business, I just wanted say that I have found many crystals with "stuff" in them (smile). With appreciation & gratitude, Stuart Schmitt Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine www.arcrystalmine.com 60 Mary's Eagle Trail Mount Ida, AR 71957 (870) 867-2443 From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 19 08:17:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Stephen Stover) Date: Mon Jan 19 08:17:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ?about arkansas quarts and gold? In-Reply-To: <000b01c3dea6$96cb2920$6400a8c0@STUART> Message-ID: <20040119161615.59541.qmail@web20022.mail.yahoo.com> Well the folding of any beds leave the space probel and cracks in the tops of the beds these vugs will allow crystal growth alos. and yes the fluids can have a lot of stuff floting along with that will be come inclusions. I just was talking about the gold that the orgianl poster wanted to know about. --- Stuart Schmitt wrote: > Hi Stephen, > > You wrote: > > These fludis did not have any gold in them or > anything > > else. That is why the crystals are so clean and > > clear. Hope this helps. > > While there are a number of Arkansas crystal mines > in sandstone beds as you > mention, there are also a lot of mines in shale beds > that do not have any > sandstone. In the shale beds, many crystals have > shale inclusions (specks, > chunks and phantoms). I've also found crystals with > gold specks (probably > not gold), what appears to be sand inclusions, > possibly square chunks of > galena and anchorite cubes, and green chloride > inclusions. While I am not a > geologist or expert in the rock business, I just > wanted say that I have > found many crystals with "stuff" in them (smile). > > With appreciation & gratitude, > Stuart Schmitt > Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine > www.arcrystalmine.com > 60 Mary's Eagle Trail > Mount Ida, AR 71957 > (870) 867-2443 > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ===== Stephen F. Stover PH (281) 829-1102 xossfs@yahoo.com Wanting to hunt rocks and play games every day! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 19 08:30:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Stephen Stover) Date: Mon Jan 19 08:30:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ?about arkansas quarts and gold? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040119162927.88572.qmail@web20021.mail.yahoo.com> There are an were very extensive. The belt runs form Alabama to Virginia and small outcroppings as far norht as maine. However the depoiits in North Geropgia were the richest. The gold rush was centered on what was to become Daholenga Georgia about 80 miles north of Atalnta. There are old gold prospect in the city of Atlanta and to the north west. Including Lake Altona haas major mines. Vill Rica has goldl production and Bnet Hickory I think. Plus stuff in the North Easten Corner. Most of the rocks are so Metamorphised the orginal emplacement rocks have been destroyed. However hypergene enrichment had done most of the work. Most of th gold is locked up in pyrite and it associated minerals in quarts vins and vienlets. However most things I have read shows these concentraion on fold axises which shows the mineralization was remoblized during the apllacian Orrgeny. The area is still rich in gold there are three problems in getting to it. One most of North georgia gold belt is privatle owned. When the Cherokees were driven off their land where the gold was in 1829, Georgia held a lottery for the new land. You paid 16 dollars to get a 1-4 chance to get 40 acres. All of the land was sold off and broken up in small pieces. Many of the richyes lots were prucahsed by mining companies and combined but those lots are worked out. so ting to find land to prospect is not easy unless you willing to buy land blind then prospect it. 2. Beign so close to Atlanta and the Great smoky mts. you could not get away with leach mining so you have to have a pretty rich to deposti to mine. Oh they are still there but getting the permits would be a bitch. 3. Green. and no I am not talking about money. Anyone who lives in the east will find, finding outcrops of any sort hard to locate. The back countyr is not easly travelled. For more info go to the Dahlonega Museum or the Consoldiated Mine Tour (largest ungergroud gold mine east of the Miss. Also Gerogia Geoloic Society ahs numerous reports on gold and other mining (pegmatites, baritess, conrundums) Last to the guy who lives in Kenesaw. Check oout those gold reports. Two Gold prospects in a creek just to the North west and I oudn one old prospect on top of Lost mountain. Some house is literally sitting on a gold mine. --- J Bryan Kramer wrote: > Just as a matter of curiosity, what was the source > of the North Georgia gold > deposits? They were supposedly fairly extensive. > > Bryan > > Samuel Adams advised, "Let us contemplate our > forefathers, and posterity, > and resolve to maintain the rights bequeathed to us > from the former, for the > sake of the latter." > > > > > Lemme try to e3xplain why there isn't any gold in > the > > quartz of Arkansas and there is some samll > amounts. > > > > > > Gold in quartz is produced by igneous intrusions. > > Granitc rocks produce hydrotheremal fluids > enriched in > > metals that include gold. The grantic magma moves > up > > through the rocks and reopens old fractures and > > infects the hydrothermal fluids into them. These > > fluids cool down and produce metal ladden veins. > This > > is one way to produce the gold in quartz. Not all > > hydrothermal fluids have gold but most have quartz > so, > > most viens do not have gold in them. > > > > However quartz crystals can be created other ways. > > > > In Arkansas the famous quartz crystal locations > around > > MT. Ida were not created by hydrothermal fluids. > > > > There are large thick sandstone beds there. These > > beds were folded duing a mountian builinng > process. > > Now think abount something that is very thick and > > bent. > > > > the bottom edge bends and remains the same length > but > > the top edge has to stretch to bend along the same > > arch. (try it with clay) to stretch the distance > > required the top of the sandstone cracked adn left > > spaces in the sandstone. These spaces became the > vugs > > the crystals would grow in. Now to fold the > sandstone > > took great stress and a little heat. The pressure > > causes hot fluids to move through the rock and the > > best place to move was through the vugs. These > fluids > > had quartz disollved in the liquid and as the > liquid > > cooled the quartz crystals grew on the walls of > the > > vugs. > > > > These fludis did not have any gold in them or > anything > > else. That is why the crystals are so clean and > > clear. Hope this helps. > > > > Stephen of Houston TX > > --- Paintricks@aol.com wrote: > > > Hey everyone, > > > I have a question about gold related to quarts > and > > > why Arkansas' quarts > > > does not contain gold. Or much of it. Since > there > > > is so much quartz there in > > > arkansas why is there not more known gold > > > associations. I live and grew up in > > > north east Texas and it is predominatly red iron > ore > > > clay and rock. No quartz > > > tho. Seems to stop around the border to Texas > and > > > Arkansas. Also, how far > > > south does the crystal belt run? > > > Much thanks, > > > Kevin > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > multipart/alternative > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > text/html > > > --- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > ===== > > Stephen F. Stover > > PH (281) 829-1102 > > xossfs@yahoo.com > > > > Wanting to hunt rocks > > and play games every day! > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" > Sweepstakes > > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ===== Stephen F. Stover PH (281) 829-1102 xossfs@yahoo.com Wanting to hunt rocks and play games every day! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 19 08:36:27 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kenneth Quinn) Date: Mon Jan 19 08:36:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ?about arkansas quarts and gold? References: Message-ID: > Just as a matter of curiosity, what was the source of the North Georgia > gold > deposits? They were supposedly fairly extensive. Extensive enough to extend into Alabama, where communities like Arbacoochee and Chulafinnee were known for gold mining. To the best of my knowledge, the deposits were created at the end of the Paleozoic, as Africa slammed into North America and formed the Appalachians. There were numerous igneous intrusions at that time, providing a source for the gold. Kenneth Quinn From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 19 08:51:17 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (JOHN STOCKWELL) Date: Mon Jan 19 08:51:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Madras and Prineville Pow Wows/Madras/On this year?/Field Trips? References: <6.0.1.1.2.20040118202237.01e915b0@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Tim. John ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tim Fisher=20 To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com=20 Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 8:23 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Madras and Prineville Pow Wows/Madras/On = this year?/Field Trips? John, it took me 3 seconds to find the phone # on Google...(253)847-2755 from my site :D At 07:36 PM 1/18/2004, you wrote: I know the Prineville Pow Wow is set for 2004, but anybody out there know what field trips are contemplated? Can't seem to find out if there'll be a Madras Pow Wow, also if the = All Rockhounds Club field trips are on again this year. Would appreciate any info. John --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD=20 Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 19 09:06:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Mon Jan 19 09:06:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digital photography Message-ID: <20040119170522.87468.qmail@web41004.mail.yahoo.com> HI list: Rik: Thanks very much for the painfully honest review of the Nikon Digital SLRs! Given the differences between film and a CCD we shouldn't be surprised that lenses and other accessories for a film SLR aren't particularly suited for a digital SLR. AFter all, you can't use Nikor lenses made for a 35mm SKR on a 8x10in sheet film camera without a lot of work. Regarding using a compact digital camera for macro use, I recently began using a Nikon Coolpix 4500 (no longer manufactured) for macro mineral photography with a little success. It is possible to control exposure (fstop and shutter speed) and focus manually - but it isn't easy or intuitive. Catching a butterfly is probably not in the cards - I tried to catch a snake last summer, but it didn't cooperate when I tried to move to a close-up range! But a motionless subject - a rock or a flower - is possible, even easy once you're set up with a tripod and lighting. I use bright light (halogen right now, Solux in the near future) to help shrink my f for better depth-of-field. I think some Sony CD cameras (the ones with German optics) are useful for macro focus work, but I have no hands-on experience with them. I was surprised to see that Leica digital cameras don't (AFAIK) focus at the macro distances we look for for mineral photography. I think John Betts has gone from a Sony with Ziess lens to a Nikon Coolpix recently - and his pictures appear to have good quality after that switch. I bought extra rechargable batteries and some big flask memory cards to work with, and haven't had problems with either for capacity so far. Hope this helps those wondering about when to switch from film to digital - I've enjoyed the NO-Film costs part a lot! Experimenting is FREE! and that's a real joy! J R Hodel, Hamlin WV __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 19 09:24:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Jan 19 09:24:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digital photography In-Reply-To: <20040119170522.87468.qmail@web41004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Space.com in their Mars coverage section has an interesting article on why the rover with a 1 MPixel CCD is so much better than the commercial 5 MPixel cameras. Optic is one big reason and the other is the fact that in commercial cameras more pixels are just squeezed into the same sized CCD which doesn't lead to better images. http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/pancam_techwed_040114.htm l Bryan Samuel Adams advised, "Let us contemplate our forefathers, and posterity, and resolve to maintain the rights bequeathed to us from the former, for the sake of the latter." > HI list: > > Rik: Thanks very much for the painfully honest review > of the Nikon Digital SLRs! Given the differences > between film and a CCD we shouldn't be surprised that > lenses and other accessories for a film SLR aren't > particularly suited for a digital SLR. AFter all, you > can't use Nikor lenses made for a 35mm SKR on a 8x10in > sheet film camera without a lot of work. > > Regarding using a compact digital camera for macro > use, I recently began using a Nikon Coolpix 4500 (no > longer manufactured) for macro mineral photography > with a little success. > > It is possible to control exposure (fstop and shutter > speed) and focus manually - but it isn't easy or > intuitive. Catching a butterfly is probably not in > the cards - I tried to catch a snake last summer, but > it didn't cooperate when I tried to move to a close-up > range! But a motionless subject - a rock or a flower > - is possible, even easy once you're set up with a > tripod and lighting. > > I use bright light (halogen right now, Solux in the > near future) to help shrink my f for better > depth-of-field. > > I think some Sony CD cameras (the ones with German > optics) are useful for macro focus work, but I have no > hands-on experience with them. I was surprised to see > that Leica digital cameras don't (AFAIK) focus at the > macro distances we look for for mineral photography. > > I think John Betts has gone from a Sony with Ziess > lens to a Nikon Coolpix recently - and his pictures > appear to have good quality after that switch. > > I bought extra rechargable batteries and some big > flask memory cards to work with, and haven't had > problems with either for capacity so far. > > Hope this helps those wondering about when to switch > from film to digital - I've enjoyed the NO-Film costs > part a lot! Experimenting is FREE! and that's a real > joy! > > J R Hodel, > Hamlin WV > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 19 09:26:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Mon Jan 19 09:26:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] volcano In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040118075021.029c8ec0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <20040119172519.2A27BEAB544@delivery.infowest.com> Thanks, Kitty. Yes I can just imagine the sense of wonder! The flow is awesome. I got to see it some years ago (the year of the total eclipse). Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill Heacox Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 11:11 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] volcano Hi List, Here's a head's-up for those who don't regularly check the USGS site below: there are great new pictures posted of the activity in the Pu'u O'o crater. On January 16th lava flowed over the rim of the crater for the first time since 1998. Some of the pictures are definitely worth clicking on "large" in order to see spatter frozen in the air, splashing and oozing flows, and photographers nearby for scale. http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/main.html Also if you missed past ones, click on "Image Archives." July and August of 2002 was when the lava was going into the ocean. Aloha, Kitty PS. It still gives us an enormous sense of wonder that from our home we can see the glow at night, and a column of smoke in the daytime, from an active volcano! --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 19 10:50:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Mon Jan 19 10:50:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles 'n stuff References: <20040118165421.6F9CFEAB6BE@delivery.infowest.com> <005101c3de18$7b701430$2cae77d5@axel> Message-ID: <005a01c3debd$14673840$4fa4490c@pete> I've enjoyed all the exchanges of comments about "Moqui marbles and how these, and other such similar things, form in rocks. In spite of having been a mineral collector, [geologist too], and yes, I'll say a "rockhound", for lots of years, interestingly, I only seem to have become aware of "Moqui marbles" a couple of years ago, when I saw them being sold as a curiosity at a mineral show or rock swap or wherever it was. I have one right here next to my desk, that I bought from whomever it was at that time--I'm "contemplating" it as I write this. I didn't know (till reading the recent exchange here) that they tend to have loose uncemented sand inside--having probably only seen intact ones; I guess I never thought about whether the interior was any different. Of course, I've seen many kinds of other, similar or not similar, concretions from a lot of places, of all sorts; from very hard, almost pure iron oxides, to loose friable sand, or clay, solid or hollow, and all shades of black to dark brown to red to yellow..., and all sorts of shapes---spherical, flattened (like the Moqui marbles), elongated, showing layering (like the "Moquis" do) or not, etc. Aside from that they all involve mineral growth from water moving through rock or sediment formations, and it's often in the form of iron oxides, and it often forms around some sort of nucleus of deposition, probably a lot of different details are involved at each location--accounting for the variety of things that one sees. Among other things, some form septarian nodules (with calcite-cemented radial fractures); some involve carbonate minerals--siderite (brown, often hard and fine-grained and not recognizably crystalline) or calcite (or ankerite), some are hollow, some have hollow cavities with euhedral crystals, some contain other minerals like barite, etc., etc. Some iron concretions probably started out as pyrite (or marcasite) nodules, which subsequently became altered and oxidized to the iron oxide as weathering of the bedrock progressed; sometimes that's hard to tell, and of course, that still leaves the question of why an iron sulfide nodule formed in the first place. There are some general geochemical/mineralogical guidelines that help explain most of these concretions, and a lot of these have been mentioned in the posts here. In general, iron is transported in water under acid and reducing conditions (Fe+2 is quite soluble), and is precipitated as ferric iron oxides (limonite, goethite, or hematite) under more oxidizing conditions--where the waters come in contact with more oxygenated, surface-derived, or less acid, water, because Fe+3 oxides or hydroxides are much more insoluble. Or, when the dissolved iron reaches very reduced or sulfur-bearing environments, around organic material or in the presence of petroleum, ferrous iron carbonate (siderite) or pyrite or marcasite will be deposited. A lot of the talk about the role of gels, involves a lot of speculation, mostly because no one really knows for sure much about what role these kinds of very fine particulate, rich is adsorbed water, non-crystalline solids play. It's really hard to take mineralogical samples, which have been through a long geologic history, and accurately reconstruct what the material was like when it was first deposited, if it has undergone a lot of changes. This is easier for minerals deposited as well-formed crystals, because one can see that this is the way they grew; it's much harder for material that we may infer or guess, to have first been deposited in non-crystalline, gel-like forms, which subsequently changed in many ways before becoming what we see it as today. This applies to both iron oxides, and silica (chalcedony and opal). I guess, in fact, those are the two common earth "mineraloids" that are abundant enough to be commonly found in many environments, and that do seem to deposit originally as non-crystalline forms. A lot of other minerals--most minerals--don't seem to have this tendancy to form non-crystalline precipitates; when they form, they form as crytalline minerals (even if just micro-crystalline), or they don't form at all--for example, calcite, gypsum, barite, fluorite, etc. Although mineral gels can be formed artificially by dissolving certain minerals in acid (such as hemimorphite, as has been pointed out here), that doesn't mean that they have to form this way in nature. If cooling, or changing of other conditions (pH, salt concentration, oxygen, etc.) causes the concentration of dissolved material (silica, iron, or whatever) to exceed its solubility, and conditions are right, gel-like particles can precipitate (it's called a "sol" when the colloidal particles are suspended in water, and a "gel" when the accumulate (coagulate I guess is a good word) to form a semi-solid but still water-rich mass. Again, since these gels are metastable, they change with time into crystalline or microcrystalline minerals, so we have to use a lot of interpretive guesswork into figuring out what they originally were. An interesting comment here, a lot has been learned about non-crystalline or poorly crystalline minerals from the study of "fresh" samples of the mineral chimneys and spires forming from undersea hot-spring vents; where minerals are being deposited rapidly from very hot, mineral-rich waters, as they cool and change chemistry as they mix with seawater. These "black smoker" chimneys are rich in iron, copper, and zinc sulfides, barite, and other minerals, but they contain many poorly crystalline mineral forms that are only found "temporarily" in these recently formed deposits; with time, and cooling, and with exposure either to seawater or to continued effects of more hot spring waters, they change and become altered into the "normal" minerals we see in ore deposits exposed in mines and on the surface--pyrite, chalcocite, sphalerite, etc. I'm not an expert on this topic of hot-spring vent mineralogy, but some of the commonly deposited minerals (or mineraloids) include amorphous silica, iron monosulfide (a form of FeS), and various forms of other sulfides that do not always correspond to the common, more stable sulfide minerals we see in normally observable rocks and ore deposits. [I'd have to do some more background reading to talk about all these minerals in more detail or more coherently!] cheers--that's all, just taking time to write a longer response about some of the things I'd been thinking about, on a quiet morning at home on a day off from work. Pete Modreski, Wheat Ridge, Colorado From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 19 11:11:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (dommelen) Date: Mon Jan 19 11:11:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digital photography Message-ID: <400D7152@webmail.dal.ca> >===== Original Message From "J. R. Hodel" ===== >Regarding using a compact digital camera for macro >use, I recently began using a Nikon Coolpix 4500 (no >longer manufactured) for macro mineral photography >with a little success. I got a Coolpix 5700 just before Christmas. Used only a few months and sold for half price! It has 8X optical zoom and is working out fantastically. It's so nice to be able to take 30 pics and select the best - without any processing cost. I haven't had a lot of time to play with most of the manual features yet, but even with mostly automatic control, I have been getting some great macro shots. The screen (about 2000 pixels across) is filled with a 3cm object, so it can capture pics of xtls only few mm's in size and they look large on a computer screen. I'm away from home for a few weeks, but when I get back, I plan to launch a big update my website on Nova Scotian minerals. That will include some of my initial shots. Eventually I will try more manual shots, and perhaps try using the camera with my microscope. Mmmmmmm, technology... Happy Collecting, Ronnie Van Dommelen From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 19 12:18:28 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Chris Auer) Date: Mon Jan 19 12:18:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digital photography References: <400D7152@webmail.dal.ca> Message-ID: <00b601c3dec8$4f7810c0$b09ada3e@chris> Hi, I got a Sony FD717 a while ago -5500 shots earlier :-) Its a perfect, professional camera with a working distance of macro pics as near as 1cm!! You get pretty pics of minerals 1cm in size, smaller is only with lower quality. I don`t want to make a hidden AD, but when you check my Ebay auctions under "wulfmaniac" you`ll see micromounts with this camera. I used low quality with 640x480. But still: My camera has "only" 5.2 M pixel and a slide film has 12-16 M pixel. So the best digital camera I am able to purchase nowadays isn`t as good as the good old slides. Chris Auer ======================== http://www.wulfenite.com http://www.minerlamps.com ======================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "dommelen" To: Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 8:10 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Digital photography > >===== Original Message From "J. R. Hodel" ===== > > >Regarding using a compact digital camera for macro > >use, I recently began using a Nikon Coolpix 4500 (no > >longer manufactured) for macro mineral photography > >with a little success. > > I got a Coolpix 5700 just before Christmas. Used only a few months and sold > for half price! It has 8X optical zoom and is working out fantastically. It's > so nice to be able to take 30 pics and select the best - without any > processing cost. I haven't had a lot of time to play with most of the manual > features yet, but even with mostly automatic control, I have been getting some > great macro shots. The screen (about 2000 pixels across) is filled with a 3cm > object, so it can capture pics of xtls only few mm's in size and they look > large on a computer screen. > > I'm away from home for a few weeks, but when I get back, I plan to launch a > big update my website on Nova Scotian minerals. That will include some of my > initial shots. Eventually I will try more manual shots, and perhaps try using > the camera with my microscope. Mmmmmmm, technology... > > Happy Collecting, > Ronnie Van Dommelen > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 19 12:18:53 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Mon Jan 19 12:18:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digital photography References: <400D7152@webmail.dal.ca> Message-ID: <006b01c3dec9$44bdfb80$4fa4490c@pete> We have a Nikon Coolpix 995 that we use at the USGS, and I must say that I've had mixed luck with it. This camera is several years old (made around 1999?). Overall it works well, except... I've tried to download pictures from it to my home computer, which uses Windows 98(SE), and I must say, I've totally failed at ever transferring any images. It has a cable connector as the only way to download images, and the computer has to have the Nikon software and driver installed to recognize the camera and do the image transfer. In spite of installing different software versions, email exchange with Nikon tech support, etc., nothing has worked, and I basically just gave up. My PC at work has Windows 2000, and the transfer there has worked fine. I find the number of menu options & control settings on the camera totally bewildering--without looking things up in the manual (I don't use the camera regularly every day, just on odd occasions), it's really difficult-to-impossible to figure out how to tell it to do anything. When I buy my own camera, I'm going to be sure to get a simpler one that doesn't have so darn many options and buttons (seriously!). For reasons unknown, the strobe flash recently stopped working on the camera, and none of us who use the camera has been able to figure out why--just "broken", I guess. cheers--just my experience, for what it's worth (re. buying a used older camera, perhaps?), Pete From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 19 13:53:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Henry Barwood) Date: Mon Jan 19 13:53:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digital photography In-Reply-To: <20040119170522.87468.qmail@web41004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I am in the process of switching over from film to digital photomicrography (Mostly micromount imaging at 5-40X). I purchased a used Nikon 990 off of e-Bay, since my budget did not have enough $$ for a new camera. Since then I've found the following: 1) The Coolpix, despite rather clunky software (as Nikon calls it: Firmware), has adaptations for photomicrography that most of the other digital cameras do not have. Among these are a good lens to begin with (well, at least some of them have good lenses!) and the ability to perform longer exposures. 2) I paid an outrageous price for an MC-EU1 remote cable release to control vibration. Next time I would probably go with some other type of release. Couldn't even use the thing until I upgraded the camera's firmware. Works fine now, BUT, you cannot use the remote and a direct link to a PC at the same time! 3) I work with memory cards and a card reader. This seems to be preferable to Nikon's software package and solves the Remote/PC conundrum. 4) I hooked the camera up to a small color TV with a RF converter ($17 at Wal-Mart) so I could focus critically. 5). Bought a screw-in microscope adapter, but have retired it in favor of a home built wooden one that can use more eyepiece designs and supports the camera body better. So far this seems to be working for me, despite a few glitches and some concerns over the usual photomicrography issues, like focus, depth-of-field and vibration. Henry Barwood From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 19 14:48:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Jan 19 14:48:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nikon / Canon [long - if not interested : delete !] References: <002001c3dcef$45b65ea0$b5dfc850@maxdata> Message-ID: <400C5E6C.48EA@Tomaszewski.net> Rik Dillen wrote: > > Last minute comment : if indeed I cannot find a decent solution for the lenses-and-accessories issue, I will buy anyway the best > compact digital camera I can find (any suggestions - especially macro is important ?), and postpone the purchase of a reflex for at > least one or two years. > > Any comments are very welcome. Flames are not. > > Rik DILLEN Rik, Thank you for taking time to translate your post; I had gotten thru the first paragraph of the original (reasonably well) when it arrived and appreciated the help. I found some points I was not previously aware of. I agree there are no generally acceptable solutions for an affordable digital camera that can use conventional 35mm lenses (pick a manufacturer). I have found a '35mm digital film pack' solution for a few specific camera models (that I don't have) that looks very promising, but is still only available in limited quantity. I reached the frustration point some time ago and took a multi pronged approach. I acquired a Fuji MX-1200 digital camera (somewhat fragile, takes reasonablty good macro {at least for the web} on a good tripod, with good lighting), I acquired a cheap scanner capable of mega-pixel resolution, and I started buying the optional CD when I developed film with interesting specimens. But I am still looking for an affordable solution that will let me use my existing (Cannon) lenses. Kreigh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 19 21:05:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon Jan 19 21:05:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digital photography Message-ID: <8a.1909485.2d3e10d1@aol.com> Just a quick note I had taken about 6000 or so pics on my Canon Eos Elan 35 mm, with macro lens, extension tubes, reverse adaptor, bellows, IR shutter release, etc. I now use a Canon EOS 10D, which works with all of these lens except the shutter release, which I replace with one for the 10D. Since the 10D's sensor is smaller than a 35 mm film frame, I get a 'free' extra bit closer to the subjects, which is great for macrophotography. I now find that I take many more pictures, and quickly screen them either in the camera, checking focus and histogram. Overall, for web or CD applications, and even print, the results are as good as film. Only when the size is greater than 8x10 will a difference be detected. Is the 10D pricey? Depends, I figure within a few years I will have saved the equivalent in film. Easy to use - yes and no, If you can use the Canon EOS series, then yes. If you want to get fancy with software, etc., then it takes some training. If any of you want to see what I have been up to, ask Tony at Excalibur Mineral, when you go to Tucson, to see the new 'Mineral News' postcard, and compare with the older 'Photographic Guide to Mineral Species" postcard. Quality the same, new one is all digital, the old ones shot on film Jeff --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 20 05:51:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Jokela) Date: Tue Jan 20 05:51:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nikon / Canon digicam References: <002001c3dcef$45b65ea0$b5dfc850@maxdata> <400C5E6C.48EA@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <008a01c3df5d$90dc11c0$1e06efd1@oemcomputer> I've spent the last few months trying to decide on a new digcam, and will probably end up buying the Canon EOS 300D. Six megapixels, (will make fabulous 8x11 prints) all the SLR adjustability, comes with a good lense, and you can upgrade to I don't know how many Canon lenses, for about a grand US. The lens it comes with is said to be quite good for macro work. If that sounds expensive, well, a few years ago a six megapixel camera was ten grand. I also picked up a tutorial CD on digital photography and Adobe Photoshop, mostly because I find the latter a real bear to understand as the geeks that write software don't give a damn about actually making it easy to use. It's called the 1-2-3 of digital imaging, check it out at 123di.com. Haven't fired it up yet but it deals with a wide range of pertinent issues and looks very useful. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr, tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The mineralogy of Ontario, Canada: http://www.ontariominerals.com > Rik Dillen wrote: > > > > > Last minute comment : if indeed I cannot find a decent solution for the lenses-and-accessories issue, I will buy anyway the best > > compact digital camera I can find (any suggestions - especially macro is important ?), and postpone the purchase of a reflex for at > > least one or two years. > > > > Any comments are very welcome. Flames are not. > > > > Rik DILLEN > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 20 07:03:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (William Cordua) Date: Tue Jan 20 07:03:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digital photography In-Reply-To: <006b01c3dec9$44bdfb80$4fa4490c@pete> Message-ID: Hi. I also bought a Nikon Cool Pix 995. I really like my camera. I do agree with Peter that it has a lot of extra bells and whistles that I don't use, but it didn't take me more than an evening to be taking neat pictures with it. I use a Macintosh and had no problem installing and using the Nikon software. I got an attachment that allows me to easily convert my 35 mm slides to digital formats. Have done this for all my key slides and made them part of my power points for my intro. geology and oceanography classes. I could use the ambient light in my office or go outside and use sunlight to do this. I find I use this camera instead of a scanner to capture pictures to paste into Power Point shows. Am now working on photographing both common and beautiful mineral samples for power points in teaching my mineralogy classes. Will make these into files students can also access on-line out of class. Most of that work will be done this summer, and ready for next Fall's students. Will have sections on each chemical class, and also will photograph samples for use in crystallography modules. I bought an adapter so the camera fits into a port of both our University's binocular and petrographic (polarized light) microscopes. I found at first the focus seemed off. Then I realized that I don't use my glasses when I work with these 'scopes. Once I started focusing with my glasses on, the photos were fine. Am using some of the photomicrographs I took with the petrographic scope in a paper I'm presenting this spring. I've also done this for a set of visuals showing minerals in thin section which will be available to students this spring. Best wishes - Bill Cordua Dr. William S. Cordua Professor of Geology/Mineralogy University of Wisconsin - River Falls 410 South Third Street River Falls, WI 54022 715-425-3139 william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu "Speak to the Earth and it shall teach thee" - Job 12:8 on 1/19/04 2:17 PM, Peter J. Modreski at pjmodreski@worldnet.att.net wrote: > We have a Nikon Coolpix 995 that we use at the USGS, and I must say that > I've had mixed luck with it. This camera is several years old (made around > 1999?). Overall it works well, except... > > I've tried to download pictures from it to my home computer, which uses > Windows 98(SE), and I must say, I've totally failed at ever transferring any > images. It has a cable connector as the only way to download images, and > the computer has to have the Nikon software and driver installed to > recognize the camera and do the image transfer. In spite of installing > different software versions, email exchange with Nikon tech support, etc., > nothing has worked, and I basically just gave up. My PC at work has Windows > 2000, and the transfer there has worked fine. > > I find the number of menu options & control settings on the camera totally > bewildering--without looking things up in the manual (I don't use the camera > regularly every day, just on odd occasions), it's really > difficult-to-impossible to figure out how to tell it to do anything. When I > buy my own camera, I'm going to be sure to get a simpler one that doesn't > have so darn many options and buttons (seriously!). > > For reasons unknown, the strobe flash recently stopped working on the > camera, and none of us who use the camera has been able to figure out > why--just "broken", I guess. > > cheers--just my experience, for what it's worth (re. buying a used older > camera, perhaps?), > Pete > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 20 09:03:41 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Tue Jan 20 09:03:41 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles 'n stuff In-Reply-To: <005a01c3debd$14673840$4fa4490c@pete> References: <20040118165421.6F9CFEAB6BE@delivery.infowest.com> <005101c3de18$7b701430$2cae77d5@axel> <005a01c3debd$14673840$4fa4490c@pete> Message-ID: <400D5ECB.7030104@tenforward.com> Hi Pete, Great email, I love being part of this list! John Peter J. Modreski wrote: >I've enjoyed all the exchanges of comments about "Moqui marbles and how >these, and other such similar things, form in rocks. > >In spite of having been a mineral collector, [geologist too], and yes, I'll >say a "rockhound", for lots of years, interestingly, I only seem to have >become aware of "Moqui marbles" a couple of years ago, when I saw them being >sold as a curiosity at a mineral show or rock swap or wherever it was. I >have one right here next to my desk, that I bought from whomever it was at >that time--I'm "contemplating" it as I write this. I didn't know (till >reading the recent exchange here) that they tend to have loose uncemented >sand inside--having probably only seen intact ones; I guess I never thought >about whether the interior was any different. Of course, I've seen many >kinds of other, similar or not similar, concretions from a lot of places, of >all sorts; from very hard, almost pure iron oxides, to loose friable sand, >or clay, solid or hollow, and all shades of black to dark brown to red to >yellow..., and all sorts of shapes---spherical, flattened (like the Moqui >marbles), elongated, showing layering (like the "Moquis" do) or not, etc. > >Aside from that they all involve mineral growth from water moving through >rock or sediment formations, and it's often in the form of iron oxides, and >it often forms around some sort of nucleus of deposition, probably a lot of >different details are involved at each location--accounting for the variety >of things that one sees. Among other things, some form septarian nodules >(with calcite-cemented radial fractures); some involve carbonate >minerals--siderite (brown, often hard and fine-grained and not recognizably >crystalline) or calcite (or ankerite), some are hollow, some have hollow >cavities with euhedral crystals, some contain other minerals like barite, >etc., etc. Some iron concretions probably started out as pyrite (or >marcasite) nodules, which subsequently became altered and oxidized to the >iron oxide as weathering of the bedrock progressed; sometimes that's hard to >tell, and of course, that still leaves the question of why an iron sulfide >nodule formed in the first place. > >There are some general geochemical/mineralogical guidelines that help >explain most of these concretions, and a lot of these have been mentioned in >the posts here. In general, iron is transported in water under acid and >reducing conditions (Fe+2 is quite soluble), and is precipitated as ferric >iron oxides (limonite, goethite, or hematite) under more oxidizing >conditions--where the waters come in contact with more oxygenated, >surface-derived, or less acid, water, because Fe+3 oxides or hydroxides are >much more insoluble. Or, when the dissolved iron reaches very reduced or >sulfur-bearing environments, around organic material or in the presence of >petroleum, ferrous iron carbonate (siderite) or pyrite or marcasite will be >deposited. > >A lot of the talk about the role of gels, involves a lot of speculation, >mostly because no one really knows for sure much about what role these kinds >of very fine particulate, rich is adsorbed water, non-crystalline solids >play. It's really hard to take mineralogical samples, which have been >through a long geologic history, and accurately reconstruct what the >material was like when it was first deposited, if it has undergone a lot of >changes. This is easier for minerals deposited as well-formed crystals, >because one can see that this is the way they grew; it's much harder for >material that we may infer or guess, to have first been deposited in >non-crystalline, gel-like forms, which subsequently changed in many ways >before becoming what we see it as today. This applies to both iron oxides, >and silica (chalcedony and opal). I guess, in fact, those are the two >common earth "mineraloids" that are abundant enough to be commonly found in >many environments, and that do seem to deposit originally as non-crystalline >forms. A lot of other minerals--most minerals--don't seem to have this >tendancy to form non-crystalline precipitates; when they form, they form as >crytalline minerals (even if just micro-crystalline), or they don't form at >all--for example, calcite, gypsum, barite, fluorite, etc. > >Although mineral gels can be formed artificially by dissolving certain >minerals in acid (such as hemimorphite, as has been pointed out here), that >doesn't mean that they have to form this way in nature. If cooling, or >changing of other conditions (pH, salt concentration, oxygen, etc.) causes >the concentration of dissolved material (silica, iron, or whatever) to >exceed its solubility, and conditions are right, gel-like particles can >precipitate (it's called a "sol" when the colloidal particles are suspended >in water, and a "gel" when the accumulate (coagulate I guess is a good word) >to form a semi-solid but still water-rich mass. Again, since these gels are >metastable, they change with time into crystalline or microcrystalline >minerals, so we have to use a lot of interpretive guesswork into figuring >out what they originally were. > >An interesting comment here, a lot has been learned about non-crystalline or >poorly crystalline minerals from the study of "fresh" samples of the mineral >chimneys and spires forming from undersea hot-spring vents; where minerals >are being deposited rapidly from very hot, mineral-rich waters, as they cool >and change chemistry as they mix with seawater. These "black smoker" >chimneys are rich in iron, copper, and zinc sulfides, barite, and other >minerals, but they contain many poorly crystalline mineral forms that are >only found "temporarily" in these recently formed deposits; with time, and >cooling, and with exposure either to seawater or to continued effects of >more hot spring waters, they change and become altered into the "normal" >minerals we see in ore deposits exposed in mines and on the surface--pyrite, >chalcocite, sphalerite, etc. I'm not an expert on this topic of hot-spring >vent mineralogy, but some of the commonly deposited minerals (or >mineraloids) include amorphous silica, iron monosulfide (a form of FeS), and >various forms of other sulfides that do not always correspond to the common, >more stable sulfide minerals we see in normally observable rocks and ore >deposits. [I'd have to do some more background reading to talk about all >these minerals in more detail or more coherently!] > >cheers--that's all, just taking time to write a longer response about some >of the things I'd been thinking about, on a quiet morning at home on a day >off from work. >Pete Modreski, Wheat Ridge, Colorado > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 20 10:10:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (jb) Date: Tue Jan 20 10:10:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 Message-ID: <400AC7DA.7040705@hal-pc.org> Pete, check your computer to see if it has USB 1.1 ports. If so upgrade to 2.0 with a $10 pci card. If that is not the problem then change from Win98 to Win ME, which has the USB 2.0 drivers which will handle the digital cameras. The best general photo-handling program is probably Photoshop Light, but there are lots of free programs around that will do the job ( maybe too many in fact!). I routinely use Cam2PC, which is a front end to my Canon, and ZoomBrowser. Maybe this will be of some help. john From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 20 10:28:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jan 20 10:28:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 References: <400AC7DA.7040705@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: <000901c3df83$03e428e0$569f77d5@axel> If your PC supports it, I would change to Windows 2000 or XP. I had unspeakable misery, sorrow and woes with ME. So had two friends of mine. We had more crashes than the R.A.F during WWII. The rest is sound advice... I run XP on a P3 450MHz and I'm just fine now ;-))) Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "jb" To: Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 6:52 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 > Pete, check your computer to see if it has USB 1.1 ports. If so upgrade > to 2.0 with a $10 pci card. > > If that is not the problem then change from Win98 to Win ME, which has > the USB 2.0 drivers which will handle the digital cameras. The best > general photo-handling program is probably Photoshop Light, but there > are lots of free programs around that will do the job ( maybe too many > in fact!). I routinely use Cam2PC, which is a front end to my Canon, and > ZoomBrowser. > > Maybe this will be of some help. > > john > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 20 10:55:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Gary Brown) Date: Tue Jan 20 10:55:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 In-Reply-To: <400AC7DA.7040705@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: <003901c3df86$df7ed9b0$6701a8c0@moose> Never, EVER, E V E R, upgrade (if you can call it that!) to WinME. As we say in Klingon, "It's a piece of P'Tak!". Seriously, ME is garbage. I'm in Microsoft's Developer Net, and when I've called Redmond and said "I've got a customer running Me..." they just laugh. With NEW computers running around $400 now with kick-ass drives, burners, etc etc. and with a new copy of WinXP running around $100 or so, think about getting a new box. GcB ====== > > If that is not the problem then change from Win98 to Win ME, > which has ===== From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 20 11:12:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Lanny) Date: Tue Jan 20 11:12:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digital photography In-Reply-To: <006b01c3dec9$44bdfb80$4fa4490c@pete> References: <400D7152@webmail.dal.ca> <006b01c3dec9$44bdfb80$4fa4490c@pete> Message-ID: <776CF61C-4B7C-11D8-98FA-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi Pete and others, Sorry for your troubles with the USGS camera. As others suggested, must be a system problem. The Nikon software is well known for being poor and causing troubles both with Windows and Mac systems. On a Mac, you don't need the Nikon software, the system handles downloading either from a card reader or directly from the camera, and for me, either method has always worked perfect. I believe it's the same with the newer Windows systems. I've had a Nikon Coolpix 995 since summer 1999; bought it because the reviews were good and it was one of the best for macro work; actually I waited for something like it before buying a good digital (before that bought two old models after the prices went down and didn't like either one). Was also pleased to find out it works so well on a microscope. For those who are interested, there is a Yahoo group for doing macro and micro work with the Coolpix cameras: CoopixPhotoMicMac. These cameras are famous for both macro work and adapting to a microscope. As to the complexity, they are only complex if you look at the their capabilities. If you look at what you personally may need, they are only as complex as any simple camera. Simple non complex cameras are either automatic (so use the Coolpix in auto mode), or only allow some basic adjustments of f-stop, speed and focus (so do the same with the Coolpix, only adjust and concern yourself with those you are interested in). Most of us already do that with the software we use; we just use the few commands and procedures we need and not the hundreds (thousands?) of commands and capabilities of our word processors, etc. For the capabilities of digital cameras 3-4 years ago the Coolpix 995 was state of the art, the new models are state of the art now, as are most of the better models of any brand. Digital definitely doesn't match the ability of film (primarily lower resolution and less latitude in the range of light that can be handled well). Most digital cameras don't do well with a bright spot, such as a reflection off a lustrous crystal face. This is less of a problem with film. However, digital makes it so much easier (cheaper) to make good photographs, that I'm done with film, possible totally done. In the last four months I've made nearly 300 photographs for a book, all taken digitally, half through the microscope. To do this, I took more than 3,000 photographs. I would have had to be a lot more conservative on the number of photos taken with film, and still spent way too much money to afford to do this. My advice, go digital, unless you truly have a need for the better quality of film. But most of us aren't taking photographs for National Geographic. For shooting photos for web pages and other computer uses, digital cameras are more than adequate. For good books where you aren't going to need big enlargements of the image, digital is also adequate, they are used a lot on professional work already. And as others have posted, with digital it's such a simple process to do it all yourself, do it "instantly" from taking the photo to viewing the photo, and after the purchase, it's use is practically free! Regards, Lanny On Jan 19, 2004, at 12:17 PM, Peter J. Modreski wrote: > We have a Nikon Coolpix 995 that we use at the USGS, and I must say > that > I've had mixed luck with it. This camera is several years old (made > around > 1999?). Overall it works well, except... > > I've tried to download pictures from it to my home computer, which uses > Windows 98(SE), and I must say, I've totally failed at ever > transferring any > images. It has a cable connector as the only way to download images, > and > the computer has to have the Nikon software and driver installed to > recognize the camera and do the image transfer. In spite of installing > different software versions, email exchange with Nikon tech support, > etc., > nothing has worked, and I basically just gave up. My PC at work has > Windows > 2000, and the transfer there has worked fine. > > I find the number of menu options & control settings on the camera > totally > bewildering--without looking things up in the manual (I don't use the > camera > regularly every day, just on odd occasions), it's really > difficult-to-impossible to figure out how to tell it to do anything. > When I > buy my own camera, I'm going to be sure to get a simpler one that > doesn't > have so darn many options and buttons (seriously!). > > For reasons unknown, the strobe flash recently stopped working on the > camera, and none of us who use the camera has been able to figure out > why--just "broken", I guess. > > cheers--just my experience, for what it's worth (re. buying a used > older > camera, perhaps?), > Pete > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 20 12:31:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Jan 20 12:31:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 In-Reply-To: <003901c3df86$df7ed9b0$6701a8c0@moose> Message-ID: I was on the Me tech beta and it was released over the objections of the beta testers, I detested it during the beta. Get Win 2K or XP Bryan Samuel Adams advised, "Let us contemplate our forefathers, and posterity, and resolve to maintain the rights bequeathed to us from the former, for the sake of the latter." > > Never, EVER, E V E R, upgrade (if you can call it that!) to > WinME. As we > say in Klingon, "It's a piece of P'Tak!". > > Seriously, ME is garbage. I'm in Microsoft's Developer Net, and when I've > called Redmond and said "I've got a customer running Me..." they > just laugh. > > With NEW computers running around $400 now with kick-ass drives, burners, > etc etc. and with a new copy of WinXP running around $100 or so, > think about > getting a new box. > > GcB > > > ====== > > > > If that is not the problem then change from Win98 to Win ME, > > which has > ===== > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 20 14:08:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Rik Dillen) Date: Tue Jan 20 14:08:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Deerite - howieite Message-ID: <005601c3dfa1$ac2d3b40$d63888d9@maxdata> Dear list, =20 I have a lot of deerite / howieite from the Laytonville quarry, = Mendocino Co., California, USA. In as far as I know deerite is purely black and occurs in the specimens = as acicular crystals, whereas howieite is very dark green to black, and forms more or less bladed crystals. In practice the description puzzles me : often there are crystals in = some kind of radiating crystals, somewhat between real acicular crystals and bladed crystals... Can anyone give me a hint to differentiate more easily between those = two minerals (with a stereomicroscope as the only aid), occurring on the same specimens ? Thanks for any suggestion ! Best regards, =20 Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15 B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium =20 Tel. + 32 3 7706007 E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be =20 Homepage : = http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list =20 MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html =20 Mineral collector's page = http://www.minerant.org/ >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! =20 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 20 14:16:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jan 20 14:16:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 References: Message-ID: <000601c3dfa2$f695bc10$569f77d5@axel> Yeah, I think Microsoft invented the "Millennium Bug". They just changed the name from "Bug" to "Edition" for commercial purposes. (ROFL or perhaps just LOL ?... no it a ROFL ) Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 9:30 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 > I was on the Me tech beta and it was released over the objections of the > beta testers, I detested it during the beta. Get Win 2K or XP > > Bryan > > Samuel Adams advised, "Let us contemplate our forefathers, and posterity, > and resolve to maintain the rights bequeathed to us from the former, for the > sake of the latter." > > > > > > Never, EVER, E V E R, upgrade (if you can call it that!) to > > WinME. As we > > say in Klingon, "It's a piece of P'Tak!". > > > > Seriously, ME is garbage. I'm in Microsoft's Developer Net, and when I've > > called Redmond and said "I've got a customer running Me..." they > > just laugh. > > > > With NEW computers running around $400 now with kick-ass drives, burners, > > etc etc. and with a new copy of WinXP running around $100 or so, > > think about > > getting a new box. > > > > GcB > > > > > > ====== > > > > > > If that is not the problem then change from Win98 to Win ME, > > > which has > > ===== > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 20 14:35:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Gary Brown) Date: Tue Jan 20 14:35:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 In-Reply-To: <000601c3dfa2$f695bc10$569f77d5@axel> Message-ID: <006c01c3dfa5$9dcde460$6701a8c0@moose> Hey, Axel, haven't you heard: "It's not a bug...it's a feature!" "How many Microsoft engineers does it take to change a light bulb?" "None... They define darkness as standard." Ok... I'll stop now. GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel > Emmermann > Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 4:16 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 > > > Yeah, I think Microsoft invented the "Millennium Bug". They > just changed the name from "Bug" to "Edition" for commercial > purposes. (ROFL or perhaps just LOL ?... no it a ROFL ) > > Axel From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 20 16:04:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Dri) Date: Tue Jan 20 16:04:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 References: <400AC7DA.7040705@hal-pc.org> <000901c3df83$03e428e0$569f77d5@axel> Message-ID: <007f01c3dfb1$db107480$6701a8c0@dslverizon.net> I agree with Axel. My companion's Daughter-in Law is a Manager at Microsoft and she grimaces every time she hears the word "ME". With that in mind, forget you ever heard of ME Dri-Anna WA - USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 10:27 Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 > If your PC supports it, I would change to Windows 2000 or XP. > I had unspeakable misery, sorrow and woes with ME. > So had two friends of mine. We had more crashes than the R.A.F during WWII. > The rest is sound advice... > > I run XP on a P3 450MHz and I'm just fine now ;-))) > > Axel > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jb" > To: > Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 6:52 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 > > > > Pete, check your computer to see if it has USB 1.1 ports. If so upgrade > > to 2.0 with a $10 pci card. > > > > If that is not the problem then change from Win98 to Win ME, which has > > the USB 2.0 drivers which will handle the digital cameras. The best > > general photo-handling program is probably Photoshop Light, but there > > are lots of free programs around that will do the job ( maybe too many > > in fact!). I routinely use Cam2PC, which is a front end to my Canon, and > > ZoomBrowser. > > > > Maybe this will be of some help. > > > > john > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 20 18:15:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Pete Richards) Date: Tue Jan 20 18:15:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digital photography In-Reply-To: <8a.1909485.2d3e10d1@aol.com> Message-ID: It's mostly been said, and I agree with all of it! I have a Nikon 5000, and I love it, though I hated it while I was trying to learn to drive it. I also use a Nikon SMZ1500 binocular microscope with dedicated digital camera, and get wonderful results with it. I find that critical focusing is very difficult with the 5000 in manual mode, partly because the focus is not continuous and your critical spot can fall between focal lengths, and partly because the screen is too small to see what is really in focus. The same problem occurs, though less severely, with tranditional SLR cameras. I agree that the pictures are never as sharp as a good photo, but I must admit that I rarely was able to take good enough photos to need the high resolution they potentially provided. Vibrations always killed me. And I'd take a roll of film and, after bracketing, get maybe 3 or 4 good pictures on a good day. I'd find out how I'd done after three days to a week. Now I shoot a bunch of alternatives, can review them on the spot, move them to my computer to check in more detail, all before moving on to the next setup. (And if I want to, I can remove the toothpick the specimen is sitting on after the fact in Photoshop, rather than having to spend 10 minutes cleverly balancing the sample on a hidden point of putty so nothing but background shows.) Though I sort of slid into doing my macro work digital, the thought of going back to film absolutely makes me shudder! I've presented digital micrography images at several mineral symposia with good experienced photographers present, and they were honestly impressed (not just being nice). The transition is underway! Cheers, Pete -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 20 18:16:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Tue Jan 20 18:16:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 References: <400AC7DA.7040705@hal-pc.org> <000901c3df83$03e428e0$569f77d5@axel> Message-ID: <001d01c3dfc4$af27a1a0$bfa3490c@pete> Thank you all for the comments & suggestions about the Nikon 995. Several of you made reference to "Windows 98 ME", but what I have (& mentioned) is Windows 98SE, SE = "Second Edition"; I'm not sure how that relates to "ME". [Computer stuff coming up now...] I used to have what I guess was the original version of Windows 98, and I developed this annoying problem of having run out of space on my c drive, on my poor old PC (1998 vintage, it's just a 350 MHz P2, but it still does pretty much everything I need it to). The hard drive was 8 Mb capacity but was partitioned into a 2 Mb c drive and the rest on a "d" drive, which was OK for data storage but all the programs have to be installed on "c", which was full. A colleague told me that Windows 98 did not support more than a 2 Mb c drive, and installed a new operating system for me, W 98SE, and now I can use the full 8 Mb as one drive, so there's lots of room for any new programs (within reason). It all seems to work for me (other than recognizing the Nikon 995 camera!). So, I'll read over all your advice and see what I can do (if it's worth trying) to make it work. Perhaps the suggestion about the old USB port will help, or something else will. It just makes my antsy, if I by a current model camera for myself, hopefully I won't find that it's not compatible with my computer's operating system, and have to buy a new computer too, before I'm ready to! Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 11:27 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 > If your PC supports it, I would change to Windows 2000 or XP. > I had unspeakable misery, sorrow and woes with ME. > So had two friends of mine. We had more crashes than the R.A.F during WWII. > The rest is sound advice... > > I run XP on a P3 450MHz and I'm just fine now ;-))) > > Axel > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jb" > To: > Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 6:52 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 > > > > Pete, check your computer to see if it has USB 1.1 ports. If so upgrade > > to 2.0 with a $10 pci card. > > > > If that is not the problem then change from Win98 to Win ME, which has > > the USB 2.0 drivers which will handle the digital cameras. The best > > general photo-handling program is probably Photoshop Light, but there > > are lots of free programs around that will do the job ( maybe too many > > in fact!). I routinely use Cam2PC, which is a front end to my Canon, and > > ZoomBrowser. > > > > Maybe this will be of some help. > > > > john > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 20 20:17:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Tue Jan 20 20:17:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Deerite - howieite Message-ID: <1a6.1f41cb8e.2d3f571e@aol.com> Rik I always thought the deerite was dark blue, and more fibrous appearing Jeff --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 21 00:00:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (TA Masters) Date: Wed Jan 21 00:00:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digital photography References: Message-ID: <400E314D.5090908@cox.net> Dr. Bill, Would you please clarify for me, to what device does the attachment that will convert 35 mm slides go, scanner or camera? Thanks, Teresa From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 21 01:06:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Jan 21 01:06:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 References: <400AC7DA.7040705@hal-pc.org> <000901c3df83$03e428e0$569f77d5@axel> <001d01c3dfc4$af27a1a0$bfa3490c@pete> Message-ID: <001101c3dffd$bb8a7880$efab77d5@axel> I know the feeling Pete! Why buy a new computer when the old one still works fine? I'm having the same problem... my kids need a modern PC for their homework... my "Dragon Naturally Speaking" works slow... My Paint shop Pro sometimes lets me grow an inch of beard while executing a filter.... On the other hand: I have a Nikon slidescanner to scan my slides of minerals (there, on topic!) I think that Windows ME was meant as something of a hybrid between W98 and W2000... I was told that it had ALL possible drivers aboard and was the best in recognizing new hardware... I WASN't told that it did things to your HDD that makes your skin crawl and crashes 5 times a week. My hard drives (40 Gb) broke. Installed a new one... it broke too. They couldn't even be formatted any more. I bought yet another new drive and a copy of XP Home Edition and after installing the new drive I got curious and installed the two broken hard disks. They formatted without any problems. So I now have 3 40Gb drives, a DVD-ROM and a CDRW working without problems. Unthinkable under ME or W98SE. Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 3:17 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 > Thank you all for the comments & suggestions about the Nikon 995. Several > of you made reference to "Windows 98 ME", but what I have (& mentioned) is > Windows 98SE, SE = "Second Edition"; I'm not sure how that relates to "ME". > [Computer stuff coming up now...] I used to have what I guess was the > original version of Windows 98, and I developed this annoying problem of > having run out of space on my c drive, on my poor old PC (1998 vintage, it's > just a 350 MHz P2, but it still does pretty much everything I need it to). > The hard drive was 8 Mb capacity but was partitioned into a 2 Mb c drive and > the rest on a "d" drive, which was OK for data storage but all the programs > have to be installed on "c", which was full. A colleague told me that > Windows 98 did not support more than a 2 Mb c drive, and installed a new > operating system for me, W 98SE, and now I can use the full 8 Mb as one > drive, so there's lots of room for any new programs (within reason). It all > seems to work for me (other than recognizing the Nikon 995 camera!). So, > I'll read over all your advice and see what I can do (if it's worth trying) > to make it work. Perhaps the suggestion about the old USB port will help, > or something else will. > > It just makes my antsy, if I by a current model camera for myself, hopefully > I won't find that it's not compatible with my computer's operating system, > and have to buy a new computer too, before I'm ready to! > > Pete > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Axel Emmermann" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 11:27 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 > > > > If your PC supports it, I would change to Windows 2000 or XP. > > I had unspeakable misery, sorrow and woes with ME. > > So had two friends of mine. We had more crashes than the R.A.F during > WWII. > > The rest is sound advice... > > > > I run XP on a P3 450MHz and I'm just fine now ;-))) > > > > Axel > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "jb" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 6:52 PM > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 > > > > > > > Pete, check your computer to see if it has USB 1.1 ports. If so upgrade > > > to 2.0 with a $10 pci card. > > > > > > If that is not the problem then change from Win98 to Win ME, which has > > > the USB 2.0 drivers which will handle the digital cameras. The best > > > general photo-handling program is probably Photoshop Light, but there > > > are lots of free programs around that will do the job ( maybe too many > > > in fact!). I routinely use Cam2PC, which is a front end to my Canon, a nd > > > ZoomBrowser. > > > > > > Maybe this will be of some help. > > > > > > john > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 21 02:18:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Jan 21 02:18:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 References: <400AC7DA.7040705@hal-pc.org> <000901c3df83$03e428e0$569f77d5@axel> <001d01c3dfc4$af27a1a0$bfa3490c@pete> <001101c3dffd$bb8a7880$efab77d5@axel> Message-ID: <003701c3e007$c2169a80$efab77d5@axel> Oops, I forgot to finish a sentence: >On the other hand: I have a Nikon slidescanner to scan my slides of minerals (there, on topic!) + but that device needs an ISA slot for the SCUSI (or something... ) adapter. New PC 's don't have ISA slots anymore and I don't know the scanner will work on a PCI adapter card. Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 10:05 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 > I know the feeling Pete! Why buy a new computer when the old one still works > fine? > I'm having the same problem... my kids need a modern PC for their > homework... my "Dragon Naturally Speaking" works slow... My Paint shop Pro > sometimes lets me grow an inch of beard while executing a filter.... > > On the other hand: I have a Nikon slidescanner to scan my slides of minerals > (there, on topic!) > > I think that Windows ME was meant as something of a hybrid between W98 and > W2000... I was told that it had ALL possible drivers aboard and was the best > in recognizing new hardware... I WASN't told that it did things to your HDD > that makes your skin crawl and crashes 5 times a week. My hard drives (40 > Gb) broke. Installed a new one... it broke too. They couldn't even be > formatted any more. > I bought yet another new drive and a copy of XP Home Edition and after > installing the new drive I got curious and installed the two broken hard > disks. They formatted without any problems. So I now have 3 40Gb drives, a > DVD-ROM and a CDRW working without problems. Unthinkable under ME or W98SE. > > Axel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter J. Modreski" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 3:17 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 > > > > Thank you all for the comments & suggestions about the Nikon 995. Several > > of you made reference to "Windows 98 ME", but what I have (& mentioned) is > > Windows 98SE, SE = "Second Edition"; I'm not sure how that relates to > "ME". > > [Computer stuff coming up now...] I used to have what I guess was the > > original version of Windows 98, and I developed this annoying problem of > > having run out of space on my c drive, on my poor old PC (1998 vintage, > it's > > just a 350 MHz P2, but it still does pretty much everything I need it to). > > The hard drive was 8 Mb capacity but was partitioned into a 2 Mb c drive > and > > the rest on a "d" drive, which was OK for data storage but all the > programs > > have to be installed on "c", which was full. A colleague told me that > > Windows 98 did not support more than a 2 Mb c drive, and installed a new > > operating system for me, W 98SE, and now I can use the full 8 Mb as one > > drive, so there's lots of room for any new programs (within reason). It > all > > seems to work for me (other than recognizing the Nikon 995 camera!). So, > > I'll read over all your advice and see what I can do (if it's worth > trying) > > to make it work. Perhaps the suggestion about the old USB port will help, > > or something else will. > > > > It just makes my antsy, if I by a current model camera for myself, > hopefully > > I won't find that it's not compatible with my computer's operating system, > > and have to buy a new computer too, before I'm ready to! > > > > Pete > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Axel Emmermann" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 11:27 AM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 > > > > > > > If your PC supports it, I would change to Windows 2000 or XP. > > > I had unspeakable misery, sorrow and woes with ME. > > > So had two friends of mine. We had more crashes than the R.A.F during > > WWII. > > > The rest is sound advice... > > > > > > I run XP on a P3 450MHz and I'm just fine now ;-))) > > > > > > Axel > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "jb" > > > To: > > > Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 6:52 PM > > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 > > > > > > > > > > Pete, check your computer to see if it has USB 1.1 ports. If so > upgrade > > > > to 2.0 with a $10 pci card. > > > > > > > > If that is not the problem then change from Win98 to Win ME, which has > > > > the USB 2.0 drivers which will handle the digital cameras. The best > > > > general photo-handling program is probably Photoshop Light, but there > > > > are lots of free programs around that will do the job ( maybe too many > > > > in fact!). I routinely use Cam2PC, which is a front end to my Canon, a > nd > > > > ZoomBrowser. > > > > > > > > Maybe this will be of some help. > > > > > > > > john > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > > Subscription Services: > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 21 05:06:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Wed Jan 21 05:06:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 (4500) In-Reply-To: <001101c3dffd$bb8a7880$efab77d5@axel> Message-ID: Hi All, Hmmm Axel, lots of crashes a week and failing harddisks. I had the same problems too, but I ran Win2000 professional. When the computer worked, I must say I had no problems with my coolpix 4500 software. I'm still not sure what the problem was but things seem to go a LOT better since I switched to Win XP Home edition. So for those of you keeping count. Nikon software has no problems Win2000 or XP home. The coolpix 4500 is a great camera, especially for macro work. A microscope adaptor to one eyepiece does work, but I'm not happy with it. First of all it is not very practical if you want to take pics occasionally while examining specimen. I was also told that it has some optical disadvantages over a phototube on a trinocular. Downside is that an adaptor for the phototube is pretty costly. About $300 versus $75 for an eyepiece adapter. I would like to try it fist and see if it is worth it's money. So far I found two downpoints on the 4500, which can be overcome easily. Battery life is pretty short, about 40 high resolution shots. For shooting minerals this means either a coffee break of buying a (probably expensive) net adaptor, making the battery lasting 'forever'. But when shooting outside on a field trip the extention cord will get impractically long...... The other slightly negative point we heard before. The small screen to focus. The 4500 can easily be hooked up to a TV. This will solve that problem. Cheers, Maurice -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 10:06 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 I know the feeling Pete! Why buy a new computer when the old one still works fine? I'm having the same problem... my kids need a modern PC for their homework... my "Dragon Naturally Speaking" works slow... My Paint shop Pro sometimes lets me grow an inch of beard while executing a filter.... On the other hand: I have a Nikon slidescanner to scan my slides of minerals (there, on topic!) I think that Windows ME was meant as something of a hybrid between W98 and W2000... I was told that it had ALL possible drivers aboard and was the best in recognizing new hardware... I WASN't told that it did things to your HDD that makes your skin crawl and crashes 5 times a week. My hard drives (40 Gb) broke. Installed a new one... it broke too. They couldn't even be formatted any more. I bought yet another new drive and a copy of XP Home Edition and after installing the new drive I got curious and installed the two broken hard disks. They formatted without any problems. So I now have 3 40Gb drives, a DVD-ROM and a CDRW working without problems. Unthinkable under ME or W98SE. Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 3:17 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 > Thank you all for the comments & suggestions about the Nikon 995. Several > of you made reference to "Windows 98 ME", but what I have (& mentioned) is > Windows 98SE, SE = "Second Edition"; I'm not sure how that relates to "ME". > [Computer stuff coming up now...] I used to have what I guess was the > original version of Windows 98, and I developed this annoying problem of > having run out of space on my c drive, on my poor old PC (1998 vintage, it's > just a 350 MHz P2, but it still does pretty much everything I need it to). > The hard drive was 8 Mb capacity but was partitioned into a 2 Mb c drive and > the rest on a "d" drive, which was OK for data storage but all the programs > have to be installed on "c", which was full. A colleague told me that > Windows 98 did not support more than a 2 Mb c drive, and installed a new > operating system for me, W 98SE, and now I can use the full 8 Mb as one > drive, so there's lots of room for any new programs (within reason). It all > seems to work for me (other than recognizing the Nikon 995 camera!). So, > I'll read over all your advice and see what I can do (if it's worth trying) > to make it work. Perhaps the suggestion about the old USB port will help, > or something else will. > > It just makes my antsy, if I by a current model camera for myself, hopefully > I won't find that it's not compatible with my computer's operating system, > and have to buy a new computer too, before I'm ready to! > > Pete > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Axel Emmermann" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 11:27 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 > > > > If your PC supports it, I would change to Windows 2000 or XP. > > I had unspeakable misery, sorrow and woes with ME. > > So had two friends of mine. We had more crashes than the R.A.F during > WWII. > > The rest is sound advice... > > > > I run XP on a P3 450MHz and I'm just fine now ;-))) > > > > Axel > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "jb" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 6:52 PM > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 > > > > > > > Pete, check your computer to see if it has USB 1.1 ports. If so upgrade > > > to 2.0 with a $10 pci card. > > > > > > If that is not the problem then change from Win98 to Win ME, which has > > > the USB 2.0 drivers which will handle the digital cameras. The best > > > general photo-handling program is probably Photoshop Light, but there > > > are lots of free programs around that will do the job ( maybe too many > > > in fact!). I routinely use Cam2PC, which is a front end to my Canon, a nd > > > ZoomBrowser. > > > > > > Maybe this will be of some help. > > > > > > john > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 21 05:59:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (William Cordua) Date: Wed Jan 21 05:59:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digital photography In-Reply-To: <400E314D.5090908@cox.net> Message-ID: on 1/21/04 1:59 AM, TA Masters at tam2819@cox.net wrote: > Dr. Bill, > Would you please clarify for me, to what device does the attachment that > will convert 35 mm slides go, scanner or camera? > Thanks, > Teresa > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > Hi Teresa, There is a "Nikon slide adapter" which screws onto the lens of a Cool Pix 995 - and maybe others. You drop a 35mm slide in, set the Nikon to "macro" and it focuses right in on the slide. You can zoom in or zoom out if you wish to center in on various parts of the slide. My biggest problem is getting the slide in upside down and backwards. Point the camera to a light (ceiling lights in my office work O.K.) or the sky outside (not the sun) and click. Put in another slide and there you go. It's simple! I've come in mornings at 8 A.M. with an idea for a class slide show with 25 slides, and had it processed and ready by 9 (A.M. not P.M. - the same day- yes?). Bought the adapter in the package with my camera, so not sure what it costs by itself. Best wishes - Bill C. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 21 06:13:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Jan 21 06:13:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] SCSI Card WAY off topic In-Reply-To: <003701c3e007$c2169a80$efab77d5@axel> References: <400AC7DA.7040705@hal-pc.org> <000901c3df83$03e428e0$569f77d5@axel> <001d01c3dfc4$af27a1a0$bfa3490c@pete> <001101c3dffd$bb8a7880$efab77d5@axel> <003701c3e007$c2169a80$efab77d5@axel> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040121060823.01e60b58@mail.spiritone.com> Axel, it should work on any SCSI card, ISA, PCI, what-have-you. You just have to get the SCSI parameters EXACTLY right or it won't work at all...GOOD LUCK! At 02:17 AM 1/21/2004, you wrote: >Oops, I forgot to finish a sentence: > > >On the other hand: I have a Nikon slidescanner to scan my slides of >minerals >(there, on topic!) >+ >but that device needs an ISA slot for the SCUSI (or something... ) adapter. >New PC 's don't have ISA slots anymore and I don't know the scanner will >work on a PCI adapter card. > >Axel Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 21 06:30:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (William Cordua) Date: Wed Jan 21 06:30:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Deerite - howieite In-Reply-To: <005601c3dfa1$ac2d3b40$d63888d9@maxdata> Message-ID: Dear Rik, I've got an idea that should work not only for deerite and howieite but for many other minerals. If your stereoscope allows light to come in from the bottom, so it is transmitted through a small sample instead of reflected off it, you can make it into a "cheapo" polarized light microscope and do all sorts of tests. You need some polaroid filters (I've bought them in big sheets from Edmund Scientific - scientifics@edsci.com - which you can cut up with scissors to what ever size you want. You might also try using a lens from polaroid sunglasses if you are really desperate). Put the polaroid filter on the scope stage. The light coming through the filter is now polarized! Put a little powder of the unknown on a glass slide and put the slide on the polaroid filter. Observe it under high power, turning the slide without moving the polaroid. Deerite will be pleochroic, changing from dark brown to black. Howieite is pleochroic too, but will turn shades of yellow, gray and/or green as the slide is turned. Try putting a second polaroid filter on top of the slide and sample, with its direction of polarization turned at 90 degrees to that of the lower polarizer. You can tell if the filters are aligned correctly, because virtually no light will get through the "crossed" polarizers. You will be able to see if your material is isometric or amorphous versus some other crystal system. Isometric and amorphous material will be black and stay blacked out even when the slide is turned (WITHOUT turning thre polarizers - takes some dexterity!). Tetragonal, hexagonal, monoclinic, orthorhombic and triclinic mineral will allow some light to pass through the light will often show nice interference colors. This won't help you with deerite/howieite, but may come in handy other times. If you buy a set of refractive index liquids (I've got them through Cargille ( http://www.cargille.com/ ) you can do even more tests. Howieite's refractive indices range from 1.701-1.734. Deerite's refractive indices range from 1.81 to 1.87. When put in liquid of 1.730 small fragments of howieite will show relatively faint outlines (low relief, refractive index of mineral close to that of the liquid) while deerite will show very bold outlines (high relief) against the liquid. If you are familiar with doing Becke line tests, you can be more sophisticated. In oil of 1.730, the Becke line (a light halo associated with grain boundaries) will move from the liquid into the deerite as the microscope tube is raised. The Becke line on howieite will either be hard to see, or move into the oil from the mineral as the microscope tube is raised. You can make some of these same observations putting the polarizers on a light table and using a handlens. All you need is a flat translucent surface with light coming through from below. Best wishes - Bill Cordua Dr. William S. Cordua Professor of Geology/Mineralogy University of Wisconsin - River Falls 410 South Third Street River Falls, WI 54022 715-425-3139 william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu "Speak to the Earth and it shall teach thee" - Job 12:8 on 1/20/04 4:06 PM, Rik Dillen at rik.dillen@skynet.be wrote: > Dear list, > > I have a lot of deerite / howieite from the Laytonville quarry, Mendocino Co., > California, USA. > In as far as I know deerite is purely black and occurs in the specimens as > acicular crystals, whereas howieite is very dark green to > black, and forms more or less bladed crystals. > In practice the description puzzles me : often there are crystals in some kind > of radiating crystals, somewhat between real acicular > crystals and bladed crystals... > Can anyone give me a hint to differentiate more easily between those two > minerals (with a stereomicroscope as the only aid), > occurring on the same specimens ? > Thanks for any suggestion ! > Best regards, > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15 > B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > Belgium > > Tel. + 32 3 7706007 > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > > Homepage : > http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) >>>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>>> Exchange list > > MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ >>>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 21 07:05:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Jan 21 07:05:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] SCSI Card WAY off topic References: <400AC7DA.7040705@hal-pc.org><000901c3df83$03e428e0$569f77d5@axel><001d01c3dfc4$af27a1a0$bfa3490c@pete><001101c3dffd$bb8a7880$efab77d5@axel><003701c3e007$c2169a80$efab77d5@axel> <6.0.1.1.2.20040121060823.01e60b58@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <003801c3e02f$db05eff0$efab77d5@axel> That's what I thought. The NIKON drivers for the CoolScanII are not supported under XP or Win2000 (and they refuse to work) but I downloaded the magnificent Silverfast driver for 49$ and that works just fine. Thanks Tim Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] SCSI Card WAY off topic > Axel, it should work on any SCSI card, ISA, PCI, what-have-you. You just > have to get the SCSI parameters EXACTLY right or it won't work at > all...GOOD LUCK! > > At 02:17 AM 1/21/2004, you wrote: > >Oops, I forgot to finish a sentence: > > > > >On the other hand: I have a Nikon slidescanner to scan my slides of > >minerals > >(there, on topic!) > >+ > >but that device needs an ISA slot for the SCUSI (or something... ) adapter. > >New PC 's don't have ISA slots anymore and I don't know the scanner will > >work on a PCI adapter card. > > > >Axel > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD > Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary > Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers > Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale > Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 21 07:33:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Gary Brown) Date: Wed Jan 21 07:33:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digital photography In-Reply-To: <400E314D.5090908@cox.net> Message-ID: <005901c3e033$ce740610$6701a8c0@moose> When I got my new Nikon Coolpix 4300 I was getting ready to spring for the "official" slide copier. Then I said to me self, I said "Hey... You already HAVE a copier..." Trouble was, it had a series 7 or something or other adapter size. I did, however, have some adapters that ALMOST worked. I was then thinking of a whole set of adapters when I smacked my hand on my head and said GLUE GUN (next best thing to duct tape!). I now have my old 1970's vintage slide adapter, a glued-together set of tubes, and my Nikon working together in unison. Of course, now I have to get my posterior in gear and start copying slides. Sort of the photo equivalent of taking my old 33 vinyl disks and ripping 'em to MP3 files. GcB PS... I love that new Nikon, but, garsh, so MANY options. About the time I figure out how to use everything it'll be time for a new camera . > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of TA Masters > Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 1:59 AM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Digital photography > > > Dr. Bill, > Would you please clarify for me, to what device does the > attachment that > will convert 35 mm slides go, scanner or camera? > Thanks, > Teresa From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 21 17:39:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Mel Albright) Date: Wed Jan 21 17:39:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digital photography References: Message-ID: <006801c3e088$7a8d98e0$ebb3950c@jessie> Would one of you camera/scanner experts tell me how to scan (a) 35 mm slides and negatives and (b) old style negatives (120, 127, 620,etc.). I have a bunch I'd like to save. Thanks Mel Albright From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 21 18:18:11 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Gary Brown) Date: Wed Jan 21 18:18:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digital photography In-Reply-To: <006801c3e088$7a8d98e0$ebb3950c@jessie> Message-ID: <004401c3e08d$e74efd70$6701a8c0@moose> Mel... What do you want to use? Scanner? Camera? With that setup I (and others) talked about earlier you can handle 35mm. The bigger formats... I'm sure there is something out there that could be "adapted". gcb > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Mel Albright > Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 7:39 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Digital photography > > > Would one of you camera/scanner experts tell me how to scan > (a) 35 mm slides and negatives and (b) old style negatives > (120, 127, 620,etc.). I have a bunch I'd like to save. > > Thanks > Mel Albright > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rock> hounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 21 18:50:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jan 21 18:50:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digital photography References: <006801c3e088$7a8d98e0$ebb3950c@jessie> Message-ID: <400F3A28.59C3@Tomaszewski.net> Mel Albright wrote: > > Would one of you camera/scanner experts tell me how to scan (a) 35 mm slides > and negatives and (b) old style negatives (120, 127, 620,etc.). I have a > bunch I'd like to save. > > Thanks > Mel Albright Mel, There is a slide holder option for some digital cameras that was mentioned recently here. Another option that may be more available is a scanner. The software that came with my scanner has a setting for transparencies that works reasonably well for slides and negatives. It also has an operation for inverting a negative (b&w or color) so it can be saved as a picture. I have to touch up the color or contrast about half the time. You have to crank up the scan resolution to get good quality enlargements. BTW, if you don't have a digital camera a scanner often does a great job of imaging a specimen laid on the scanning bed (or on a sheet of clear plastic on the bed so the bed is not scratched). I know a gentleman who acquired an automated slide feeder for a video camera and plugged it into his Mac and then used a frame grabber to capture his slides to disk. He could store one image every couple seconds, but then had to go back and label each file. And if time is a problem, many of the larger copy centers, and most real camera stores, offer a service where they will transfer your slides to CD. Keep an eye out for this as the prices are beginning to drop last I heard. Kreigh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 21 18:54:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Paul Gilmore) Date: Wed Jan 21 18:54:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digital photography Message-ID: Hi Ron: I was planning to get a Nikon Coolpix 4300 some day, but my wife, bless her heart, went one step better and got me a Coolpix 5700 for Christmas. Within a week it stopped functioning in all but the "no flash" mode; the speedlight would not charge, even with a fresh battery. I found a bulletin board on-line where this problem was reprted by many others (there were over 50 responses to the original posting). Others complained that the focusing was so slow that images were blurred if there was even slight motion. Nikon has repaired this for some of those folks, but the problem has recurred for at least one unfortunate person. I'm glad to hear that yours is working fine. After much consideration, I am returning my 5700, and downgrading to the 4 megapixel 4300, and using the leftover $ for accessories. Good luck! Paul Gilmore Andover, MA >From: dommelen >Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Digital photography >Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:10:37 -0400 > > >===== Original Message From "J. R. Hodel" ===== > > >Regarding using a compact digital camera for macro > >use, I recently began using a Nikon Coolpix 4500 (no > >longer manufactured) for macro mineral photography > >with a little success. > >I got a Coolpix 5700 just before Christmas. Used only a few months and >sold >for half price! It has 8X optical zoom and is working out fantastically. >It's >so nice to be able to take 30 pics and select the best - without any >processing cost. I haven't had a lot of time to play with most of the >manual >features yet, but even with mostly automatic control, I have been getting >some >great macro shots. The screen (about 2000 pixels across) is filled with a >3cm >object, so it can capture pics of xtls only few mm's in size and they look >large on a computer screen. > >I'm away from home for a few weeks, but when I get back, I plan to launch a >big update my website on Nova Scotian minerals. That will include some of >my >initial shots. Eventually I will try more manual shots, and perhaps try >using >the camera with my microscope. Mmmmmmm, technology... > >Happy Collecting, >Ronnie Van Dommelen > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _________________________________________________________________ Let the new MSN Premium Internet Software make the most of your high-speed experience. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1 From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 21 19:07:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Wed Jan 21 19:07:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles 'n stuff In-Reply-To: <005a01c3debd$14673840$4fa4490c@pete> Message-ID: <20040122030632.8E2C0EAB26D@delivery.infowest.com> Thank you very much Peter. An excellent "contemplative study" that pretty well explains it all! Margaret! -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Peter J. Modreski Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 11:50 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Moqui marbles 'n stuff I've enjoyed all the exchanges of comments about "Moqui marbles and how these, and other such similar things, form in rocks. In spite of having been a mineral collector, [geologist too], and yes, I'll say a "rockhound", for lots of years, interestingly, I only seem to have become aware of "Moqui marbles" a couple of years ago, when I saw them being sold as a curiosity at a mineral show or rock swap or wherever it was. I have one right here next to my desk, that I bought from whomever it was at that time--I'm "contemplating" it as I write this. I didn't know (till reading the recent exchange here) that they tend to have loose uncemented sand inside--having probably only seen intact ones; I guess I never thought about whether the interior was any different. Of course, I've seen many kinds of other, similar or not similar, concretions from a lot of places, of all sorts; from very hard, almost pure iron oxides, to loose friable sand, or clay, solid or hollow, and all shades of black to dark brown to red to yellow..., and all sorts of shapes---spherical, flattened (like the Moqui marbles), elongated, showing layering (like the "Moquis" do) or not, etc. Aside from that they all involve mineral growth from water moving through rock or sediment formations, and it's often in the form of iron oxides, and it often forms around some sort of nucleus of deposition, probably a lot of different details are involved at each location--accounting for the variety of things that one sees. Among other things, some form septarian nodules (with calcite-cemented radial fractures); some involve carbonate minerals--siderite (brown, often hard and fine-grained and not recognizably crystalline) or calcite (or ankerite), some are hollow, some have hollow cavities with euhedral crystals, some contain other minerals like barite, etc., etc. Some iron concretions probably started out as pyrite (or marcasite) nodules, which subsequently became altered and oxidized to the iron oxide as weathering of the bedrock progressed; sometimes that's hard to tell, and of course, that still leaves the question of why an iron sulfide nodule formed in the first place. There are some general geochemical/mineralogical guidelines that help explain most of these concretions, and a lot of these have been mentioned in the posts here. In general, iron is transported in water under acid and reducing conditions (Fe+2 is quite soluble), and is precipitated as ferric iron oxides (limonite, goethite, or hematite) under more oxidizing conditions--where the waters come in contact with more oxygenated, surface-derived, or less acid, water, because Fe+3 oxides or hydroxides are much more insoluble. Or, when the dissolved iron reaches very reduced or sulfur-bearing environments, around organic material or in the presence of petroleum, ferrous iron carbonate (siderite) or pyrite or marcasite will be deposited. A lot of the talk about the role of gels, involves a lot of speculation, mostly because no one really knows for sure much about what role these kinds of very fine particulate, rich is adsorbed water, non-crystalline solids play. It's really hard to take mineralogical samples, which have been through a long geologic history, and accurately reconstruct what the material was like when it was first deposited, if it has undergone a lot of changes. This is easier for minerals deposited as well-formed crystals, because one can see that this is the way they grew; it's much harder for material that we may infer or guess, to have first been deposited in non-crystalline, gel-like forms, which subsequently changed in many ways before becoming what we see it as today. This applies to both iron oxides, and silica (chalcedony and opal). I guess, in fact, those are the two common earth "mineraloids" that are abundant enough to be commonly found in many environments, and that do seem to deposit originally as non-crystalline forms. A lot of other minerals--most minerals--don't seem to have this tendancy to form non-crystalline precipitates; when they form, they form as crytalline minerals (even if just micro-crystalline), or they don't form at all--for example, calcite, gypsum, barite, fluorite, etc. Although mineral gels can be formed artificially by dissolving certain minerals in acid (such as hemimorphite, as has been pointed out here), that doesn't mean that they have to form this way in nature. If cooling, or changing of other conditions (pH, salt concentration, oxygen, etc.) causes the concentration of dissolved material (silica, iron, or whatever) to exceed its solubility, and conditions are right, gel-like particles can precipitate (it's called a "sol" when the colloidal particles are suspended in water, and a "gel" when the accumulate (coagulate I guess is a good word) to form a semi-solid but still water-rich mass. Again, since these gels are metastable, they change with time into crystalline or microcrystalline minerals, so we have to use a lot of interpretive guesswork into figuring out what they originally were. An interesting comment here, a lot has been learned about non-crystalline or poorly crystalline minerals from the study of "fresh" samples of the mineral chimneys and spires forming from undersea hot-spring vents; where minerals are being deposited rapidly from very hot, mineral-rich waters, as they cool and change chemistry as they mix with seawater. These "black smoker" chimneys are rich in iron, copper, and zinc sulfides, barite, and other minerals, but they contain many poorly crystalline mineral forms that are only found "temporarily" in these recently formed deposits; with time, and cooling, and with exposure either to seawater or to continued effects of more hot spring waters, they change and become altered into the "normal" minerals we see in ore deposits exposed in mines and on the surface--pyrite, chalcocite, sphalerite, etc. I'm not an expert on this topic of hot-spring vent mineralogy, but some of the commonly deposited minerals (or mineraloids) include amorphous silica, iron monosulfide (a form of FeS), and various forms of other sulfides that do not always correspond to the common, more stable sulfide minerals we see in normally observable rocks and ore deposits. [I'd have to do some more background reading to talk about all these minerals in more detail or more coherently!] cheers--that's all, just taking time to write a longer response about some of the things I'd been thinking about, on a quiet morning at home on a day off from work. Pete Modreski, Wheat Ridge, Colorado _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 21 19:31:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (TA Masters) Date: Wed Jan 21 19:31:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digital photography References: Message-ID: <400F43CF.9070808@cox.net> Dr. Bill, Sounds great. I suspected it was not a scanner attachment. This is the first time I have heard about this. Thanks, Now to find out if I can find one for my camera. Thanks again, and I'll bet your lectures are great. Teresa From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 22 08:40:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Jan 22 08:40:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digital photography In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002601c3e106$493d18a0$6701a8c0@moose> Since we are talking about switching to digital... I've (finally!) put my old Minolta dichro-head enlarger in storage. I'm thinking of (preferably!) selling the beast or donating it to my local high school's photo lab (they still do wet work). Any guesses out there as to what the beast might be worth? GcB From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 22 08:50:03 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Thu Jan 22 08:50:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digital photography Message-ID: <012220041649.12948.277e@att.net> About $100 to $200. I just bought one, but could maybe use another one for my fluorescence color-comparison project, so pleae contact me off-list. Don > Since we are talking about switching to digital... > > I've (finally!) put my old Minolta dichro-head enlarger in storage. I'm > thinking of (preferably!) selling the beast or donating it to my local high > school's photo lab (they still do wet work). Any guesses out there as to > what the beast might be worth? > > GcB > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 22 19:57:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Thu Jan 22 19:57:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digital photography Message-ID: <31.432ef40e.2d41f55a@aol.com> Dont''t get rid of it, I use mine for a copy stand, with a suitable adaptor. I add some extra weights to the slider part to keep the spring balanced Jeff > I've (finally!) put my old Minolta dichro-head enlarger in storage. I'm > thinking of (preferably!) selling the beast or donating it to my local high > school's photo lab (they still do wet work). Any guesses out there as to > what the beast might be worth? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Jan 24 03:43:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Dennis Buffenmyer) Date: Sat Jan 24 03:43:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Deerite - howieite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40125AA5.6000701@ptd.net> Doctor Bill, This is way cool stuff!! Dont know why I never thought of this... Your contribution is GREATLY appreciated by myself and hopefully others!! Dennis Buffenmyer William Cordua wrote: >Dear Rik, > I've got an idea that should work not only for deerite and howieite but >for many other minerals. If your stereoscope allows light to come in from >the bottom, so it is transmitted through a small sample instead of reflected >off it, you can make it into a "cheapo" polarized light microscope and do >all sorts of tests. You need some polaroid filters (I've bought them in big >sheets from Edmund Scientific - scientifics@edsci.com - which you can cut >up with scissors to what ever size you want. You might also try using a lens >from polaroid sunglasses if you are really desperate). Put the polaroid >filter on the scope stage. The light coming through the filter is now >polarized! Put a little powder of the unknown on a glass slide and put the >slide on the polaroid filter. Observe it under high power, turning the slide >without moving the polaroid. Deerite will be pleochroic, changing from dark >brown to black. Howieite is pleochroic too, but will turn shades of yellow, >gray and/or green as the slide is turned. > Try putting a second polaroid filter on top of the slide and sample, with >its direction of polarization turned at 90 degrees to that of the lower >polarizer. You can tell if the filters are aligned correctly, because >virtually no light will get through the "crossed" polarizers. You will be >able to see if your material is isometric or amorphous versus some other >crystal system. Isometric and amorphous material will be black and stay >blacked out even when the slide is turned (WITHOUT turning thre polarizers - >takes some dexterity!). Tetragonal, hexagonal, monoclinic, orthorhombic and >triclinic mineral will allow some light to pass through the light will often >show nice interference colors. This won't help you with deerite/howieite, >but may come in handy other times. > If you buy a set of refractive index liquids (I've got them through >Cargille ( http://www.cargille.com/ ) you can do even more tests. Howieite's >refractive indices range from 1.701-1.734. Deerite's refractive indices >range from 1.81 to 1.87. When put in liquid of 1.730 small fragments of >howieite will show relatively faint outlines (low relief, refractive index >of mineral close to that of the liquid) while deerite will show very bold >outlines (high relief) against the liquid. > If you are familiar with doing Becke line tests, you can be more >sophisticated. In oil of 1.730, the Becke line (a light halo associated with >grain boundaries) will move from the liquid into the deerite as the >microscope tube is raised. The Becke line on howieite will either be hard to >see, or move into the oil from the mineral as the microscope tube is raised. > You can make some of these same observations putting the polarizers on a >light table and using a handlens. All you need is a flat translucent surface >with light coming through from below. > > Best wishes - Bill Cordua > > >Dr. William S. Cordua >Professor of Geology/Mineralogy >University of Wisconsin - River Falls >410 South Third Street >River Falls, WI 54022 >715-425-3139 >william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu >"Speak to the Earth and it shall teach thee" - Job 12:8 > > > > > >on 1/20/04 4:06 PM, Rik Dillen at rik.dillen@skynet.be wrote: > > > >>Dear list, >> >>I have a lot of deerite / howieite from the Laytonville quarry, Mendocino Co., >>California, USA. >>In as far as I know deerite is purely black and occurs in the specimens as >>acicular crystals, whereas howieite is very dark green to >>black, and forms more or less bladed crystals. >>In practice the description puzzles me : often there are crystals in some kind >>of radiating crystals, somewhat between real acicular >>crystals and bladed crystals... >>Can anyone give me a hint to differentiate more easily between those two >>minerals (with a stereomicroscope as the only aid), >>occurring on the same specimens ? >>Thanks for any suggestion ! >>Best regards, >> >>Rik DILLEN >>Doornstraat 15 >>B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas >>Belgium >> >>Tel. + 32 3 7706007 >>E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be >> >>Homepage : >>http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >> >> >>>>>Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) >>>>>An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>>>>Exchange list >>>>> >>>>> >>MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 >>Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) >>Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen >>http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html >> >>Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ >> >> >>>>>The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! >>>>> >>>>> >> >> >> >>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>multipart/alternative >>text/plain (text body -- kept) >>text/html >>--- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Jan 24 20:03:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Adam Donatelli) Date: Sat Jan 24 20:03:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] new member Message-ID: hi im new to the group. I am in the lowermainland of BC and have been interested in rocks and gems for over 15 years now. I currently carve soapstone and alabaster in my spare time. Adam D. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/photos&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat Jan 24 20:08:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Adam Donatelli) Date: Sat Jan 24 20:08:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for lava rock... any ideas? Message-ID: i was wondering if anyone knew of some locations where you can find lava rock in BC? i am looking for a base for one of my carvings and any landscape place only caries up to 2" in size and i need something around 8 inches in diameter... so i figured that maybe i could find it out and about somewhere. Any Info would be greatly appreciated. Thanx Adam D _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 25 06:53:04 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sun Jan 25 06:53:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] We are a supplier of Jasperized Stromatolite stone. Message-ID: <19b.1fcd0ea4.2d453241@aol.com> From: crescentstoneinc@aol.com www.crescentstone.com Steve DeLong/President 888-400-0094 We are a new natural stone producer with Stromatolite Stone in jasperized red, green, black. We have graded specimens from museum quality to some present. We have rough supplies, you do the work or finished/polished to your needs. If interested call 888-400-0094. Sincerely; Steve DeLong --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 25 09:02:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sun Jan 25 09:02:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] a Michigan jasper rock question Message-ID: <001901c3e365$2bad8520$46a5490c@pete> Hi, to Rockhounds, Here's a rock question I've been meaning to ask, since our trip to = Michigan & the Great Lakes region this past summer. An interesting, distinctive-looking type of rock that we saw used as = decorative stone in Michigan, is a jasper conglomerate, which contained = deep red, rounded jasper pebbles. I recall that most of the rock is = whitish-colored, except for the red pebbles, which makes for a very = attractive color contrast. My wife Jane, the ex-Michigan gal and earth = science teacher, who knows "just about everything" about rocks in = Michigan, has seen this before but it's one of the few things that she = doesn't associate a name for, or know anything specific about where it's = found. Perhaps it only occurs as glacially-transported boulders?=20 Where we saw this, actually, in particular, was where it was one of a = number of interesting kinds of rock used to construct the stone = building, walls, and monuments at the St. Joseph's shrine, a Catholic = church & Stations of the Cross monument, located on U.S. Hwy. 12 a = little south and east of Brooklyn, Mich., in the "Irish Hills" of = southeast-central Michigan--not far from the big Michigan International = Speedway. By the way, this shrine is something that any rockhound would = have an interesting time stopping to see if passing through this way. = The rockwork was constructed by someone who really had an appreciation = for "rocks"; they went out of their way to incorporate all sorts of = interesting rocks, not just from Michigan but from elsewhere; there's = lots of rose quartz, drusy quartz, all kinds of igneous and metamorphic = rocks, neat ornamental rock types .... I should have jotted down more = notes about all the different kinds that were used; someone had told us = to look for the staurolites there, but that was one thing we never did = find. So, has anyone heard of this particular kind of jasper-pebble = conglomerate, and have a specific name for it, and know anything about = where in Michigan (or perhaps, from a source further north, across Lake = Superior in Ontario?) it comes from? A corollary is, I'd sometime like = to buy or otherwise obtain a piece of it--it must be about the only kind = of rock from Michigan that Jane doesn't have a piece of--either a small = piece for inside, or a near-boulder-size piece sitting out in our front = yard in Wheat Ridge, CO! You should see the "immense" boulder of = jaspilite she has--carted all the way from the U.P. to Denver. Since "someone in this online group must know everything", perhaps I'll = get some kind of a reply. Sincerely, Pete Modreski --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 25 09:15:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Keith Q. Hayes) Date: Sun Jan 25 09:15:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] a Michigan jasper rock question References: <001901c3e365$2bad8520$46a5490c@pete> Message-ID: <006101c3e364$b85ad0a0$5c8ee342@bay.chartermi.net> Pete, I think the local nickname for it is puddingstone. I occasionally see pieces at swaps and I think there used to be a big piece at the Eddy Center (outdoor geology park near Ann Arbor.) Regards, sorry, no pieces here. too many other rocks in the house :) Keith Q. Hayes KQ's Minerals kqhayes@chartermi.net www.kqminerals.com 3705 Fuller Drive Midland, MI 48642 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" To: "Rockhounds@Lists.Drizzle.Com" Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 12:03 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] a Michigan jasper rock question Hi, to Rockhounds, Here's a rock question I've been meaning to ask, since our trip to Michigan & the Great Lakes region this past summer. An interesting, distinctive-looking type of rock that we saw used as decorative stone in Michigan, is a jasper conglomerate, which contained deep red, rounded jasper pebbles. I recall that most of the rock is whitish-colored, except for the red pebbles, which makes for a very attractive color contrast. My wife Jane, the ex-Michigan gal and earth science teacher, who knows "just about everything" about rocks in Michigan, has seen this before but it's one of the few things that she doesn't associate a name for, or know anything specific about where it's found. Perhaps it only occurs as glacially-transported boulders? Where we saw this, actually, in particular, was where it was one of a number of interesting kinds of rock used to construct the stone building, walls, and monuments at the St. Joseph's shrine, a Catholic church & Stations of the Cross monument, located on U.S. Hwy. 12 a little south and east of Brooklyn, Mich., in the "Irish Hills" of southeast-central Michigan--not far from the big Michigan International Speedway. By the way, this shrine is something that any rockhound would have an interesting time stopping to see if passing through this way. The rockwork was constructed by someone who really had an appreciation for "rocks"; they went out of their way to incorporate all sorts of interesting rocks, not just from Michigan but from elsewhere; there's lots of rose quartz, drusy quartz, all kinds of igneous and metamorphic rocks, neat ornamental rock types .... I should have jotted down more notes about all the different kinds that were used; someone had told us to look for the staurolites there, but that was one thing we never did find. So, has anyone heard of this particular kind of jasper-pebble conglomerate, and have a specific name for it, and know anything about where in Michigan (or perhaps, from a source further north, across Lake Superior in Ontario?) it comes from? A corollary is, I'd sometime like to buy or otherwise obtain a piece of it--it must be about the only kind of rock from Michigan that Jane doesn't have a piece of--either a small piece for inside, or a near-boulder-size piece sitting out in our front yard in Wheat Ridge, CO! You should see the "immense" boulder of jaspilite she has--carted all the way from the U.P. to Denver. Since "someone in this online group must know everything", perhaps I'll get some kind of a reply. Sincerely, Pete Modreski --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 25 09:50:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sun Jan 25 09:50:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 In-Reply-To: <001d01c3dfc4$af27a1a0$bfa3490c@pete> References: <400AC7DA.7040705@hal-pc.org> <000901c3df83$03e428e0$569f77d5@axel> <001d01c3dfc4$af27a1a0$bfa3490c@pete> Message-ID: <1074676855.400e44777cea9@mail.mways.co.uk> Pete, If you cannot get Windows 98 to recognise the Nikon 995, your best option is to buy a Compact Flash card reader for your PC (obviously one that supports Windows 98!) - These are very cheap now, and you just unplug the card from your camera, plug it into the card reader, and it appears as a new drive letter (probably F in your case) which you can access files from just like it was the camera connected. I find this far more convenient that plugging my camera into the PC whenver I want to transfer photos from my Nikon 995 (which is an excellent camera). Jolyon ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 25 09:50:15 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Sun Jan 25 09:50:15 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] My main e-mail and www.peaktopeak.com are temporarily down until further notice... Message-ID: Hi all, Due to circumstances beyond my control, the http://www.peaktopeak.com website (and its sub-websites) and my main e-mail account (BobL@peaktopeak.com) are temporarily out of service. I am working to rectify this situation and hope everything will be up within the next couple days. I was planning on changing the website structure a little anyway (e.g. removing the "/minerals" directory), so I guess this is a good time to do it. I'll let everyone know the details when the site is up again. In the meantime, I am able to use my Qwest e-mail account, so if you sent me any e-mails yesterday or earlier today, please resend them to: BobL@qwest.net Thank you for your patience. Regards, Bob Loeffler From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 25 10:51:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Jan 25 10:51:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] a Michigan jasper rock question References: <001901c3e365$2bad8520$46a5490c@pete> Message-ID: <40141008.1910@Tomaszewski.net> Pete, It is a quartz conglomerate and has the common name of puddingstone. I have one specimen that includes an amethyst pebble along with the jasper. Kreigh Peter J. Modreski wrote: > > Hi, to Rockhounds, > > Here's a rock question I've been meaning to ask, since our trip to Michigan & the Great Lakes region this past summer. > > An interesting, distinctive-looking type of rock that we saw used as decorative stone in Michigan, is a jasper conglomerate, which contained deep red, rounded jasper pebbles. I recall that most of the rock is whitish-colored, except for the red pebbles, which makes for a very attractive color contrast. My wife Jane, the ex-Michigan gal and earth science teacher, who knows "just about everything" about rocks in Michigan, has seen this before but it's one of the few things that she doesn't assoc > > > > So, has anyone heard of this particular kind of jasper-pebble conglomerate, and have a specific name for it, and know anything about where in Michigan (or perhaps, from a source further north, across Lake Superior in Ontario?) it comes from? A corollary is, I'd sometime like to buy or otherwise obtain a piece of it--it must be about the only kind of rock from Michigan that Jane doesn't have a piece of--either a small piece for inside, or a near-boulder-size piece sitting out in our front yard i > > Since "someone in this online group must know everything", perhaps I'll get some kind of a reply. > > Sincerely, Pete Modreski From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 25 14:42:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (John McLaughlin) Date: Sun Jan 25 14:42:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ultrasonic Drills Message-ID: <003e01c3e394$6a217b70$e75a2741@johniepsh4mfjg> I have been contacted by a person who has inherited three Imahashi USD = 75 ultrasonic drills for help in finding the value of and selling the = drills and some other lapidary equipment. The drills were acquired 22 = years ago to drill holes in a variety of stone beads. They have been in = storage for most of this time.=20 I have found references to the Imahashi Mfg Co on the web as = manufacturers of faceting machines and ultrasonic drills, but I can't = find a web site. Does anyone have any knowledge of the drill and its = current value. Amazingly, eBay does not list any ultrasonic drills for = sale. The person who has the drills was a teenager when the drills were used. = He helped his dad drill stones and has some interesting memories of = exploding emerald and ruby beads before finding the correct frequencies = for drilling them. =20 Thanks for any thoughts on the subject. John McLaughlin, Glendale, Arizona jemstone@amug.org --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 25 15:15:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sun Jan 25 15:15:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 References: <400AC7DA.7040705@hal-pc.org> <000901c3df83$03e428e0$569f77d5@axel> <001d01c3dfc4$af27a1a0$bfa3490c@pete> <1074676855.400e44777cea9@mail.mways.co.uk> Message-ID: <000d01c3e398$1b02ac40$585204d0@jim> Yes, that's what I use. They are made by Kodak, and cost about $20-$25 at Walmart. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 3:20 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Nikon 995 and Win98 > Pete, > > If you cannot get Windows 98 to recognise the Nikon 995, your best option is to > buy a Compact Flash card reader for your PC (obviously one that supports > Windows 98!) - These are very cheap now, and you just unplug the card from your > camera, plug it into the card reader, and it appears as a new drive letter > (probably F in your case) which you can access files from just like it was the > camera connected. > > I find this far more convenient that plugging my camera into the PC whenver I > want to transfer photos from my Nikon 995 (which is an excellent camera). > > Jolyon > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 25 15:52:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sun Jan 25 15:52:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Michigan jasper rock--Puddingstone! References: <001901c3e365$2bad8520$46a5490c@pete> <006101c3e364$b85ad0a0$5c8ee342@bay.chartermi.net> Message-ID: <003a01c3e39e$5e4628a0$46a5490c@pete> Thanks, Keith and Kreigh, for your replies. Yes, that certainly helped--ya shure, you betcha, puddingstone is the name! Armed with that, in a minute or two I found this very nice description (with photos) of puddingstone on the internet, http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Pool/2099/puddingstone.htm about how it is found in Michgan, but comes from Ontario (SE of Sault Ste. Marie is what it said), and of all things, the website above was written by someone I know (Steve Veatch) from Colorado Springs, and it talks about how a friend of his bought a little sack of these puddingstones in a thrift store in Colorado Springs. Jane agrees that "puddingstone" is the name for this, and that somehow in the course of her all rambles about the state, she's just never gotten a sample. On our recent trip, we were in at least one or two rock shops in Mich. (including the ultimate U.P. rock shop, in Ishpheming, "Da Yoopers Rock Shop", which is a sub-department of one of the state's unique attractions which I'm sure you've all heard of, "Da Yoopers Tourist Trap", the gift shoppe extraordinaire**--anyway, at that shop at least, they must not have had any puddingstone specimens, or we would have bought one! **also known as the home of the classic singing group, Da Yoopers, best know for their quadruple-platinum (??) hit, "Deer Camp". [P.S., for some fun, check out the rock shop's website, http://www.dayooper.com/ ] P.P.S., as I now see, their website has a bunch of info posted about puddingstone, so I guess they must have had a pile of it at the shop too, I guess we just missed it! Thanks, guys. Pete P.P.P.S., Here is Denver today (or should I say, Wheat Ridge, the western suburb where we live), after a day that way promised to have snow but then changed to a forecast of "probably no snow to speak of except in the mountains", the threatening dark clouds finally got together enough to generate more-than-just-a-flurry, and it's been snowing like the dickens for about the past half hour; at least an inch of snow on the ground now--we can use it. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 25 16:24:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Dri) Date: Sun Jan 25 16:24:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for lava rock... any ideas? References: Message-ID: <002a01c3e3a2$a53dbe40$6701a8c0@dslverizon.net> Adam: The Cascades are hop, skip and jump away from you. And most, if not all Peaks in the Cascade Range are either dormant or quietly active Volcanoes. I would think this would be a good resource for you. Dri-Anna WA - USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Donatelli" To: Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 20:07 Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for lava rock... any ideas? > i was wondering if anyone knew of some locations where you can find lava > rock in BC? i am looking for a base for one of my carvings and any > landscape place only caries up to 2" in size and i need something around 8 > inches in diameter... so i figured that maybe i could find it out and about > somewhere. Any Info would be greatly appreciated. > Thanx > Adam D > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 25 17:44:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Dave West) Date: Sun Jan 25 17:44:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rocks, kids, and NASA Message-ID: <002501c3e3ad$b4d4fb10$6500a8c0@westp1nnb5h9zg> This looks great for getting kids "into" rocks. NASA is asking kids to = send a clean rock to them. They will take it, analyze it, and send a = certificate back to the child. There is much more to this, so if you are interested, go to the web page = and check it out: http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/classroom/schoolhouse/ Connect a kid to this page and help the hobby live for another = generation DaveW --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 25 19:07:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Keith Q. Hayes) Date: Sun Jan 25 19:07:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Michigan jasper rock--Puddingstone! References: <001901c3e365$2bad8520$46a5490c@pete> <006101c3e364$b85ad0a0$5c8ee342@bay.chartermi.net> <003a01c3e39e$5e4628a0$46a5490c@pete> Message-ID: <006601c3e3b6$c183cfe0$5c8ee342@bay.chartermi.net> Help! The apocalypse is drawing nigh... Pete is discovering the Yooper accent and slang. Next he will be demanding a pasty and begging to go mining in Copper Country. Keith Q. Hayes KQ's Minerals kqhayes@chartermi.net www.kqminerals.com 3705 Fuller Drive Midland, MI 48642 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" To: Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Michigan jasper rock--Puddingstone! > Thanks, Keith and Kreigh, for your replies. > > Yes, that certainly helped--ya shure, you betcha, puddingstone is the name! > Armed with that, in a minute or two I found this very nice description (with > photos) of puddingstone on the internet, > > http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Pool/2099/puddingstone.htm > > about how it is found in Michgan, but comes from Ontario (SE of Sault Ste. > Marie is what it said), and of all things, the website above was written by > someone I know (Steve Veatch) from Colorado Springs, and it talks about how > a friend of his bought a little sack of these puddingstones in a thrift > store in Colorado Springs. Jane agrees that "puddingstone" is the name for > this, and that somehow in the course of her all rambles about the state, > she's just never gotten a sample. On our recent trip, we were in at least > one or two rock shops in Mich. (including the ultimate U.P. rock shop, in > Ishpheming, "Da Yoopers Rock Shop", which is a sub-department of one of the > state's unique attractions which I'm sure you've all heard of, "Da Yoopers > Tourist Trap", the gift shoppe extraordinaire**--anyway, at that shop at > least, they must not have had any puddingstone specimens, or we would have > bought one! > > **also known as the home of the classic singing group, Da Yoopers, best know > for their quadruple-platinum (??) hit, > "Deer Camp". > > [P.S., for some fun, check out the rock shop's website, > http://www.dayooper.com/ ] P.P.S., as I now see, their website has a bunch > of info posted about puddingstone, so I guess they must have had a pile of > it at the shop too, I guess we just missed it! > > Thanks, guys. > Pete > > P.P.P.S., Here is Denver today (or should I say, Wheat Ridge, the western > suburb where we live), after a day that way promised to have snow but then > changed to a forecast of "probably no snow to speak of except in the > mountains", the threatening dark clouds finally got together enough to > generate more-than-just-a-flurry, and it's been snowing like the dickens for > about the past half hour; at least an inch of snow on the ground now--we can > use it. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 25 19:35:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Gary Brown) Date: Sun Jan 25 19:35:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Michigan jasper rock--Puddingstone! In-Reply-To: <006601c3e3b6$c183cfe0$5c8ee342@bay.chartermi.net> Message-ID: <001201c3e3bd$41251820$6701a8c0@moose> You mean dem little tassle things? GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Keith Q. Hayes > Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 8:48 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Michigan jasper rock--Puddingstone! > > > Help! > > The apocalypse is drawing nigh... Pete is discovering the > Yooper accent and slang. Next he will be demanding a pasty > and begging to go mining in Copper Country. > > > Keith Q. Hayes > KQ's Minerals > kqhayes@chartermi.net From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 25 19:43:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sun Jan 25 19:43:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Michigan jasper rock--Puddingstone! References: <001901c3e365$2bad8520$46a5490c@pete> <006101c3e364$b85ad0a0$5c8ee342@bay.chartermi.net> <003a01c3e39e$5e4628a0$46a5490c@pete> <006601c3e3b6$c183cfe0$5c8ee342@bay.chartermi.net> Message-ID: <008001c3e3be$b2abc9c0$46a5490c@pete> Well, Keith... Since writing my earlier message, I've had one misconception corrected, so I'll just take this opportunity to point out that the web site I referred to, "Da Yooper" at http://www.dayooper.com/ , is a separate rock shop, official shop name "The Oldest Antiques on Earth", and totally unrelated to the aforementioned "Da Yoopers Tourist Trap + Da Yoopers Rock Shop". The latter (still just as notoriously known as I made it sound) is in Ispheming, wheras the shop with the good rock website is in the southern part of the U.P., Rapid River--I just exchanged email with the proprietor, who helped set me straight on this. Similar names, different places & businesses, and the shop I've been in is the Ispheming one (also worth a stop). P.S., Keith, Jane, who as I said is a real dyed-in-the-wool Michigander and an honorary Yooper too (by virtue of her father's birthplace), asks if you know what a Kutchinatana is, and, by chance, if you've ever heard of Pussy Kulich's Bluff? Jane says that the legend is that the Kutchinatana would call from Pussy Kulich's Bluff, to the female sitting over by the ore stockpile. Now if that makes any sense to anyone... you're way ahead of me?? And P.S. again, after they finished telling us it wouldn't snow today in Denver, it clouded up and started snowing after all, we had about 2 inches or so, it all looks like "white Christmas" time now! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Q. Hayes" To: Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Michigan jasper rock--Puddingstone! > Help! > > The apocalypse is drawing nigh... Pete is discovering the Yooper accent and > slang. Next he will be demanding a pasty and begging to go mining in Copper > Country. > > > Keith Q. Hayes > KQ's Minerals > kqhayes@chartermi.net > www.kqminerals.com From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun Jan 25 19:45:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Pete Richards) Date: Sun Jan 25 19:45:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Michigan jasper rock--Puddingstone! In-Reply-To: <003a01c3e39e$5e4628a0$46a5490c@pete> References: <001901c3e365$2bad8520$46a5490c@pete> <006101c3e364$b85ad0a0$5c8ee342@bay.chartermi.net> Message-ID: Ya shure, you betcha.... While the term has clearly been applied to the Michigan conglomerates in question, "puddingstone" is also used in general as a term for any conglomerate. The conglomerate in question is characterized by having numerous pebbles of red jasper in it, and in this sense it is unusual, if not unique. There is probably more to this thread than what has appeared at this site to date. In our cemetery in Oberlin (OH) there is a set of locally collected natural tombstones that honor the Wright family, turn of the century (i.e. about 1900). The stones are all the same unmistakable jasper conglomerate. One (or more) of the Wrights was geologically inclined, and apparently traced these glacial erratics to their source in upper Michigan, an accomplishment which was of major significance for establishing the pathways of transport of glacial materials in this part of the midwest. As luck would have it, I have just had a request for more information about the Wrights and their puddingstone grave markers from a member of our local mineral club, and expect that I may be able to point to more specific information in the near future. I also intend to take some digital photographs of these stones the next time the snow on the melts..., and would be glad to send copies to those who are interested, though I guess they cannot be sent to this listserv. Cheers, Pete Richards -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 26 00:08:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon Jan 26 00:08:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Michigan jasper rock--Puddingstone! Message-ID: <1c6.147117b0.2d4624c1@aol.com> We have a very similar looking rock here in the UK called Puddingstone. Rounded flint and jasper pebbles, I think Ward's (USA) sell it. They call it Puddingstone in Hertfordshire but it grades to a finer grained rock called Sarsen stone in Wiltshire, they used it to build Averbury and some of Stone Hendge. Dave --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 26 06:52:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Jan 26 06:52:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ultrasonic Drills In-Reply-To: <003e01c3e394$6a217b70$e75a2741@johniepsh4mfjg> References: <003e01c3e394$6a217b70$e75a2741@johniepsh4mfjg> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040126065027.01eb55a8@mail.spiritone.com> Good news! You are in the heart of Imahashi country :) Go talk to your local fire agate carver, they covet these drills... At 02:41 PM 1/25/2004, you wrote: >I have been contacted by a person who has inherited three Imahashi USD 75 >ultrasonic drills for help in finding the value of and selling the drills >and some other lapidary equipment. The drills were acquired 22 years ago >to drill holes in a variety of stone beads. They have been in storage for >most of this time. > >I have found references to the Imahashi Mfg Co on the web as manufacturers >of faceting machines and ultrasonic drills, but I can't find a web >site. Does anyone have any knowledge of the drill and its current >value. Amazingly, eBay does not list any ultrasonic drills for sale. > >The person who has the drills was a teenager when the drills were >used. He helped his dad drill stones and has some interesting memories of >exploding emerald and ruby beads before finding the correct frequencies >for drilling them. > >Thanks for any thoughts on the subject. > >John McLaughlin, Glendale, Arizona >jemstone@amug.org Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 26 06:55:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Jan 26 06:55:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Michigan jasper rock--Puddingstone! In-Reply-To: <006601c3e3b6$c183cfe0$5c8ee342@bay.chartermi.net> References: <001901c3e365$2bad8520$46a5490c@pete> <006101c3e364$b85ad0a0$5c8ee342@bay.chartermi.net> <003a01c3e39e$5e4628a0$46a5490c@pete> <006601c3e3b6$c183cfe0$5c8ee342@bay.chartermi.net> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040126065312.01ec1228@mail.spiritone.com> Oh please, pasties? STOP THIS RIGHT NOW! (You're making me hungry for a Philly cheesesteak) :) At 06:47 PM 1/25/2004, you wrote: >Help! > >The apocalypse is drawing nigh... Pete is discovering the Yooper accent and >slang. Next he will be demanding a pasty and begging to go mining in Copper >Country. > > >Keith Q. Hayes >KQ's Minerals >kqhayes@chartermi.net >www.kqminerals.com >3705 Fuller Drive >Midland, MI 48642 Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 26 09:11:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Horst Windisch) Date: Mon Jan 26 09:11:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Michigan jasper rock--Puddingstone! References: <001901c3e365$2bad8520$46a5490c@pete> <006101c3e364$b85ad0a0$5c8ee342@bay.chartermi.net> Message-ID: <000701c3e42e$1637f3a0$dc3f27c4@horstspc> This is an interesting subject, but the material is certainly not unique, as here in South Africa we have found similar material with the jasper pebbles being red, green and black; the "background" is more dark green with patches of grey. As a Club we first collected this material over the 1967 Easter weekend. It is found basically on the border between South Africa and Swaziland (the nearest town being Barberton) in the Greenstone Belt (which is one of the world's oldest rock formations about 3 700 million years old)). We were all a bit younger in those days, but after parking our cars in a forest, we had to climb down a steep wooded hill for an hour, cross a very small stream (about one yard wide), then up the other side for an hour. Then we had to chop these chunks out of a near vertical face, load it in our rucksacks and wend our way back the same route. When the tired rockhounds arrived at the parked cars in the afternoon, they were welcomed with a hearty ovation and a cup of hot coffee!! In later years, during an annual Easter GEMBOREE (1989), we followed a different forest road and reached a much nearer point from which to collect the material. One year (1977) we collected in that area as well, but approached the collecting site from the Swaziland site (parking the cars near the Havelock Asbestos Mine). The walk to the site also took an hour, but was not as strenuous as our first outing in 1967. Many years ago, I was presented by our Club with a clock made out of this material (by one of our Club members) (about 7 inches in diameter). Our Club (Pretoria Gem and Mineral Club) is busy organising this year's Easter GEMBOREE and this collecting site is also on our schedule of outings on Easter Saturday. In our local rockhound jargon it also known as puddingstone. Horst ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Richards" To: Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 5:44 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Michigan jasper rock--Puddingstone! > Ya shure, you betcha.... > > While the term has clearly been applied to the Michigan conglomerates in question, "puddingstone" is also used in general as a term for any conglomerate. The conglomerate in question is characterized by having numerous pebbles of red jasper in it, and in this sense it is unusual, if not unique. > > There is probably more to this thread than what has appeared at this site to date. In our cemetery in Oberlin (OH) there is a set of locally collected natural tombstones that honor the Wright family, turn of the century (i.e. about 1900). The stones are all the same unmistakable jasper conglomerate. One (or more) of the Wrights was geologically inclined, and apparently traced these glacial erratics to their source in upper Michigan, an accomplishment which was of major significance for establishing the pathways of transport of glacial materials in this part of the midwest. > > As luck would have it, I have just had a request for more information about the Wrights and their puddingstone grave markers from a member of our local mineral club, and expect that I may be able to point to more specific information in the near future. > > I also intend to take some digital photographs of these stones the next time the snow on the melts..., and would be glad to send copies to those who are interested, though I guess they cannot be sent to this listserv. > > Cheers, > Pete Richards > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > R. Peter Richards > rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu > > Mineral collector > Crystallographer > SHAPE for the Macintosh > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 26 10:23:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Lanny) Date: Mon Jan 26 10:23:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for lava rock... any ideas? In-Reply-To: <002a01c3e3a2$a53dbe40$6701a8c0@dslverizon.net> References: <002a01c3e3a2$a53dbe40$6701a8c0@dslverizon.net> Message-ID: <88AE4550-502C-11D8-B372-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Not true. Few peaks in the Cascade Range are volcanoes, active, dormant or dead. Most peaks in the Cascades are sediments or metamorphics or intrusive igneous rocks. There are a lot of volcanic rocks, but most are not related to the few significant volcanic peaks. In BC, there is the extensive volcanic area of Garibaldi Provincial Park. I believe there are volcanic rocks extending outside of the park and in several areas along the coast and Vancouver Island. Lanny On Jan 25, 2004, at 4:23 PM, Dri wrote: > Adam: > The Cascades are hop, skip and jump away from you. And most, if not > all > Peaks in the Cascade Range are either dormant or quietly active > Volcanoes. > I would think this would be a good resource for you. > Dri-Anna > WA - USA > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Adam Donatelli" > To: > Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 20:07 > Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for lava rock... any ideas? > > >> i was wondering if anyone knew of some locations where you can find >> lava >> rock in BC? i am looking for a base for one of my carvings and any >> landscape place only caries up to 2" in size and i need something >> around 8 >> inches in diameter... so i figured that maybe i could find it out and > about >> somewhere. Any Info would be greatly appreciated. >> Thanx >> Adam D >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* >> > http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en- > ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgma > rket%3den-ca >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 26 10:26:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Michael Schmidt) Date: Mon Jan 26 10:26:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for lava rock... any ideas? References: <002a01c3e3a2$a53dbe40$6701a8c0@dslverizon.net> <88AE4550-502C-11D8-B372-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <001f01c3e439$ca3c15b0$dbca94d1@remains> check pet stores or Mountain Gems on Hastings st. in Burnaby ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny" To: Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 11:22 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] looking for lava rock... any ideas? > Not true. Few peaks in the Cascade Range are volcanoes, active, dormant > or dead. Most peaks in the Cascades are sediments or metamorphics or > intrusive igneous rocks. There are a lot of volcanic rocks, but most > are not related to the few significant volcanic peaks. > > In BC, there is the extensive volcanic area of Garibaldi Provincial > Park. I believe there are volcanic rocks extending outside of the park > and in several areas along the coast and Vancouver Island. > > Lanny > > > On Jan 25, 2004, at 4:23 PM, Dri wrote: > > > Adam: > > The Cascades are hop, skip and jump away from you. And most, if not > > all > > Peaks in the Cascade Range are either dormant or quietly active > > Volcanoes. > > I would think this would be a good resource for you. > > Dri-Anna > > WA - USA > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Adam Donatelli" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 20:07 > > Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for lava rock... any ideas? > > > > > >> i was wondering if anyone knew of some locations where you can find > >> lava > >> rock in BC? i am looking for a base for one of my carvings and any > >> landscape place only caries up to 2" in size and i need something > >> around 8 > >> inches in diameter... so i figured that maybe i could find it out and > > about > >> somewhere. Any Info would be greatly appreciated. > >> Thanx > >> Adam D > >> > >> _________________________________________________________________ > >> The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > >> > > http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en- > > ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgma > > rket%3den-ca > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 26 11:12:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Jim Daly) Date: Mon Jan 26 11:12:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Michigan jasper rock--Puddingstone! References: <001901c3e365$2bad8520$46a5490c@pete> <006101c3e364$b85ad0a0$5c8ee342@bay.chartermi.net> <000701c3e42e$1637f3a0$dc3f27c4@horstspc> Message-ID: <000e01c3e43f$4ccbc0c0$125204d0@jim> Apparently this rock is quite widespread. Irecall a restaurant in Boonton, NJ made of this sort of rock to a great extent. (The pebbles weren't all jasper, though). The place was called, appropriately, the Puddingstone Inn. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales Microminerals and mounting supplies http://www.sauktown.com sauktown@adsnet.com or orders@sauktown.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Horst Windisch" To: Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Michigan jasper rock--Puddingstone! > This is an interesting subject, but the material is certainly not unique, as > here in South Africa we have found similar material with the jasper pebbles > being red, green and black; the "background" is more dark green with patches > of grey. > > As a Club we first collected this material over the 1967 Easter weekend. It > is found basically on the border between South Africa and Swaziland (the > nearest town being Barberton) in the Greenstone Belt (which is one of the > world's oldest rock formations about 3 700 million years old)). > > We were all a bit younger in those days, but after parking our cars in a > forest, we had to climb down a steep wooded hill for an hour, cross a very > small stream (about one yard wide), then up the other side for an hour. Then > we had to chop these chunks out of a near vertical face, load it in our > rucksacks and wend our way back the same route. When the tired rockhounds > arrived at the parked cars in the afternoon, they were welcomed with a > hearty ovation and a cup of hot coffee!! > > In later years, during an annual Easter GEMBOREE (1989), we followed a > different forest road and reached a much nearer point from which to collect > the material. One year (1977) we collected in that area as well, but > approached the collecting site from the Swaziland site (parking the cars > near the Havelock Asbestos Mine). The walk to the site also took an hour, > but was not as strenuous as our first outing in 1967. > > Many years ago, I was presented by our Club with a clock made out of this > material (by one of our Club members) (about 7 inches in diameter). Our Club > (Pretoria Gem and Mineral Club) is busy organising this year's Easter > GEMBOREE and this collecting site is also on our schedule of outings on > Easter Saturday. > > In our local rockhound jargon it also known as puddingstone. > > Horst > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pete Richards" > To: > Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 5:44 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Michigan jasper rock--Puddingstone! > > > > Ya shure, you betcha.... > > > > While the term has clearly been applied to the Michigan conglomerates in > question, "puddingstone" is also used in general as a term for any > conglomerate. The conglomerate in question is characterized by having > numerous pebbles of red jasper in it, and in this sense it is unusual, if > not unique. > > > > There is probably more to this thread than what has appeared at this site > to date. In our cemetery in Oberlin (OH) there is a set of locally > collected natural tombstones that honor the Wright family, turn of the > century (i.e. about 1900). The stones are all the same unmistakable jasper > conglomerate. One (or more) of the Wrights was geologically inclined, and > apparently traced these glacial erratics to their source in upper Michigan, > an accomplishment which was of major significance for establishing the > pathways of transport of glacial materials in this part of the midwest. > > > > As luck would have it, I have just had a request for more information > about the Wrights and their puddingstone grave markers from a member of our > local mineral club, and expect that I may be able to point to more specific > information in the near future. > > > > I also intend to take some digital photographs of these stones the next > time the snow on the melts..., and would be glad to send copies to those who > are interested, though I guess they cannot be sent to this listserv. > > > > Cheers, > > Pete Richards > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > R. Peter Richards > > rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu > > > > Mineral collector > > Crystallographer > > SHAPE for the Macintosh > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 26 12:06:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon Jan 26 12:06:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Puddingstone Message-ID: <012620042005.20101.82@att.net> Hi to Horst and others, As has been noted, puddingstone, of course, is a traditional generic name for conglomerate, which I especially associate with England, but it seems there are several places around the world where "special" conglomerates go by the local name of puddingstone. From the pictures I've seen, I think the Ontario/Michigan puddinstone is especially attractive, because of the distinctive deep red jasper pebbles. Searching on the web for this name, I've seen references to "Roxbury Puddingstone" in buildings in Boston, and to some of the megaliths at Stonehenge and elsewhere in England being made of puddingstone. Pete Modreski From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 26 12:34:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon Jan 26 12:34:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Puddingstone, P.S. Message-ID: <012620042033.19557.6b38@att.net> And, by the way, checking some more websites just reminded me, that "Roxbury Puddingstone" is the state rock of Massachusetts. Massachusetts also has Granite as its "State Building and Monument Stone", and Plymouth Rock as its "State Historical Rock". I went first to the MSA's web page on state symbols, http://www.minsocam.org/MSA/collectors_corner/offmin.htm which then linked to the official Mass. state page, http://www.masshome.com/tour.html#Symbols Methinks that among our states, Mass. may have gotten a wee bit carried away in naming state symbols; I read that it also has a state beverage (Cranberry Juice), state fish (Cod), state cat (Tabby Cat), state flower (Mayflower, of course--I guess I didn't know there was such a flower!), state gem (Rhodonite- -you don't see much of that from Mass.!), state fossil (Dinosaur Track), and, according to another website (can we believe all we read on the web??), the Mass. state bean is the Baked Navy Bean, the state desert is Boston Cream Pie, the state muffin is the Corn Muffin, and the state cookie is the Chocolate Chip Cookie. There's a lot more. Is this getting out of hand, or what? (http://www.statehousegirls.net/ma/symbols/) cheers, Pete Modreski (P.S., my mother and sister live in New Hampshire, so they know that it's always OK to harass Massachusetts about just about anything). (P.P.S.,, My mom also says she's heard way more than enough campaign ads right about now!) From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 26 12:47:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kris Murray) Date: Mon Jan 26 12:47:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Puddingstone, P.S. In-Reply-To: <012620042033.19557.6b38@att.net> References: <012620042033.19557.6b38@att.net> Message-ID: anyone know of a listings of the state rocks or for the states that have state rocks? i looked one day and came up empty. THX ~KM On Jan 26, 2004, at 12:33 PM, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > the state rock of Massachusetts Windows Machines... nice gaming platform.. but I would not want to do any real work on one. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 26 13:18:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Jan 26 13:18:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Puddingstone, P.S. In-Reply-To: References: <012620042033.19557.6b38@att.net> <012620042033.19557.6b38@att.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040126113824.02055b70@mail.aloha.net> Pete Modreski posted these three sites last November when the topic came up before of state gemstones: http://www.geosymbols.org/geo/index.php http://www.minsocam.org/msa/collectors_corner/index.htm http://www.intersurf.com/~heinrich/statefossil.html Aloha, Kitty At 10:46 AM 1/26/2004, you wrote: >anyone know of a listings of the state rocks or for the states that have >state rocks? i looked one day and came up empty. >THX >~KM --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.563 / Virus Database: 355 - Release Date: 1/17/2004 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 26 13:37:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Nathan C. Martin II) Date: Mon Jan 26 13:37:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] MA State Symbols (was Puddingstone). In-Reply-To: <012620042033.19557.6b38@att.net> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20040126155337.01d9f2a0@po2.bbn.com> Pete, I won't comment on the other Massachusetts state symbols but in my estimation your list missed the most important one of all, the state mineral; babingtonite. Although this is a relatively rare mineral in most parts of the world it is relatively common in well-formed crystals at several quarries in MA. I remember being very disappointed by the babingtonite specimen on display at the Smithsonian, having seen far better self-collected specimens in the collections of members of my club (the Boston Mineral Club). Actually rhodonite was the original reason for the Betts Manganese Quarry in Plainfield, MA. I have never collected there but have heard that specimens can still be found on the dumps with effort. There is a nice rhodonite necklace on display in the New England Room at the Harvard Museum of Natural History that I think is made from material from that quarry. As far as far out symbols go, it could be worse. Why if I lived in Colorado where the state symbols include a state grass (blue grama grass) and a state insect (Colorado hairstreak butterfly), I think I would rather have a state cookie. ;-) I guess it just proves that vested interests are alive and well and talking state legislatures into doing weird things just about everywhere. Best regards, Nate Martin Lexington, MA At 03:33 PM 1/26/2004, you wrote: >And, by the way, checking some more websites just reminded me, that "Roxbury >Puddingstone" is the state rock of Massachusetts. > >Massachusetts also has Granite as its "State Building and Monument Stone", >and Plymouth Rock as its "State Historical Rock". I went first to the MSA's >web page on state symbols, >http://www.minsocam.org/MSA/collectors_corner/offmin.htm >which then linked to the official Mass. state page, >http://www.masshome.com/tour.html#Symbols > >Methinks that among our states, Mass. may have gotten a wee bit carried away >in naming state symbols; I read that it also has a state beverage (Cranberry >Juice), state fish (Cod), state cat (Tabby Cat), state flower (Mayflower, of >course--I guess I didn't know there was such a flower!), state gem (Rhodonite- >-you don't see much of that from Mass.!), state fossil (Dinosaur Track), and, >according to another website (can we believe all we read on the web??), >the Mass. state bean is the Baked Navy Bean, the state desert is Boston Cream >Pie, the state muffin is the Corn Muffin, and the state cookie is the >Chocolate Chip Cookie. There's a lot more. Is this getting out of hand, or >what? >(http://www.statehousegirls.net/ma/symbols/) From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 26 14:22:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon Jan 26 14:22:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chat about gem-digging in Tucson? Message-ID: <20040126222139.RQMS21310.simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@smtp8.sympatico.ca> Hi everyone, Through a combination of cicumstances as unexpected as it is welcome I'll be spending two weeks in Tucson - my first Tucson ever. I'll be at the Alpha Supply booth which is at 2500 East Ajo Way in the Keano Sports Park and would be delighted to meet some of you in person if your Tucson steps should lead you there. I'd particularly welcome chatting with anyone who can tell me stories about, information on, contacts to, people who are actively engaged in digging for gems and minerals. Basically, who is digging what, where. Some of you may be familiar with the "Stones of Fate and Fortune" series which I originated and which was broadcast on the Canadian Discovery Channel in the spring and again in the autumn of last year. I'm now seeking contacts to people and information to help flesh out a related project-in-development which is presently making its rounds among production houses and broacasters. So if you know of anyone who is doing & digging neat things in some exotic corner of the world or of Maine, why not drop by? Plus I'll have a few, very few, Bay of Fundy mineral specimens and an equally small number (remember all this is quite unexpected, so I'm coming unprepared in that respect) of finished Bay of Fundy agates. But I will have some slabs and a milk crate or two of Bay of Fundy rough though. Cheers and regards Hans Durstling snow-refugee from the Bay of Fundy From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 26 15:25:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Gary Mangan) Date: Mon Jan 26 15:25:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] thundereggs Message-ID: <000501c3e463$6899a1e0$3b5e1318@attbi.com> I was wanting to know if there was some place in western WA that has thundereggs for sale. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 26 15:47:28 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon Jan 26 15:47:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] MA State Symbols (was Puddingstone). Message-ID: <012620042346.8412.78b1@att.net> Nathan, & list, You know I just wanted to harass people from Massachusetts a bit. But I do hope the Patriots win! I was much amiss to have ignored the state mineral, babingtonite--I guess I was just going for the funny ones. And I didn't even get to the State Heroine, and the State Folk Hero! Of course, all of us in Colorado do know about our state insect, the Hairstreak Butterfly. Mass. has a state insect too--it's the ladybug. [P.S., I found this other very good website for the Mass. state symbols, http://www.state.ma.us/sec/cis/cismaf/mf1a.htm which explains the origin of the state's name, originally said to have been from "Messatossec", meaning "at or about the great hill", or "great hill's mouth" (among other interpretations).] Pete From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 26 16:47:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kris Murray) Date: Mon Jan 26 16:47:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Puddingstone, P.S. In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040126113824.02055b70@mail.aloha.net> References: <012620042033.19557.6b38@att.net> <012620042033.19557.6b38@att.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20040126113824.02055b70@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <3351D360-5062-11D8-8D6A-000393A96092@mac.com> thnk you a bazillion, i checked google but not the forum archives.. ~KM On Jan 26, 2004, at 1:39 PM, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > http://www.geosymbols.org/geo/index.php > http://www.minsocam.org/msa/collectors_corner/index.htm > http://www.intersurf.com/~heinrich/statefossil.html > Never let a day pass that you will have cause to say, 'I will do better=20= tomorrow.' =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0--- Brigham Young --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 26 19:30:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (John McLaughlin) Date: Mon Jan 26 19:30:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ultrasonic Drills References: <003e01c3e394$6a217b70$e75a2741@johniepsh4mfjg> <6.0.1.1.2.20040126065027.01eb55a8@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <006d01c3e485$b4c357b0$e75a2741@johniepsh4mfjg> Hi Tim, Very interesting answer. Why would a carver want an ultrasonic drill. It would seem to be good for punching a hole through a rock, but to contour fire agate how would it be used? I have a fair amount of fire agate rough, some very good, so this question is not only sincere - I'm going to hold my breath till you reply. By the way, we have Apaches to the east, Navajos and Hopis to the northeast, Pimas to the south and Chemehuevi and Mohaves to the west, but Imahashis are a new group to me. I'll watch for their casino! John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" To: Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 7:51 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Ultrasonic Drills > Good news! You are in the heart of Imahashi country :) Go talk to your > local fire agate carver, they covet these drills... From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 26 19:32:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon Jan 26 19:32:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oldest land animal found Message-ID: <14e.293e5c64.2d473449@aol.com> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=585&e=2&u=/nm/20040126/sc_nm/e nvironment_britain_fossil_dc --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon Jan 26 21:01:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Keith Q. Hayes) Date: Mon Jan 26 21:01:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Michigan jasper rock--Puddingstone! References: <001901c3e365$2bad8520$46a5490c@pete> <006101c3e364$b85ad0a0$5c8ee342@bay.chartermi.net> <003a01c3e39e$5e4628a0$46a5490c@pete> <006601c3e3b6$c183cfe0$5c8ee342@bay.chartermi.net> <008001c3e3be$b2abc9c0$46a5490c@pete> Message-ID: <004901c3e490$a9df19a0$5c8ee342@bay.chartermi.net> Pete, I am afraid there is some Yooper lore they never teach us trolls (those who live under the Big Mac bridge). I suspect that the rumors that more alcohol is consumed per capita in the UP than the lower peninsula is responsible for that legend. :) Ah well, there's great rocks up north and let's hope the snow clears by June so we can all go collect. Keith Q. Hayes KQ's Minerals kqhayes@chartermi.net www.kqminerals.com 3705 Fuller Drive Midland, MI 48642 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" To: Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 10:44 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Michigan jasper rock--Puddingstone! > Well, Keith... > > Since writing my earlier message, I've had one misconception corrected, so > I'll just take this opportunity to point out that the web site I referred > to, "Da Yooper" at http://www.dayooper.com/ , is a separate rock shop, > official shop name "The Oldest Antiques on Earth", and totally unrelated to > the aforementioned "Da Yoopers Tourist Trap + Da Yoopers Rock Shop". The > latter (still just as notoriously known as I made it sound) is in Ispheming, > wheras the shop with the good rock website is in the southern part of the > U.P., Rapid River--I just exchanged email with the proprietor, who helped > set me straight on this. Similar names, different places & businesses, and > the shop I've been in is the Ispheming one (also worth a stop). > > P.S., Keith, Jane, who as I said is a real dyed-in-the-wool Michigander and > an honorary Yooper too (by virtue of her father's birthplace), asks if you > know what a Kutchinatana is, and, by chance, if you've ever heard of Pussy > Kulich's Bluff? Jane says that the legend is that the Kutchinatana would > call from Pussy Kulich's Bluff, to the female sitting over by the ore > stockpile. > > Now if that makes any sense to anyone... you're way ahead of me?? > > And P.S. again, after they finished telling us it wouldn't snow today in > Denver, it clouded up and started snowing after all, we had about 2 inches > or so, it all looks like "white Christmas" time now! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Keith Q. Hayes" > To: > Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 7:47 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Michigan jasper rock--Puddingstone! > > > > Help! > > > > The apocalypse is drawing nigh... Pete is discovering the Yooper accent > and > > slang. Next he will be demanding a pasty and begging to go mining in > Copper > > Country. > > > > > > Keith Q. Hayes > > KQ's Minerals > > kqhayes@chartermi.net > > www.kqminerals.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 27 08:01:03 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Tue Jan 27 08:01:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] buying meteorites & rare minerals in Tuscon Message-ID: <012720041600.26000.d54@att.net> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) multipart/alternative message/rfc822 --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 27 08:04:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Tue Jan 27 08:04:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] [rocksandfossils] buying meteorites & rare minerals at Tuscon Message-ID: <012720041603.28938.55c0@att.net> Hi members, I hope everyone who is going to Tuscon enjoys the show. Of course, I'm always happy to offer tips and tricks, and this time it is about meteorites and rare minerals. 1. You should preferably purchase such materials from a dealer you know and trust. Unless you are quite experienced yourself, you have no way of knowing for certain whether the item offered is authentic or not. 2. Don't be afraid to ask questions about claims made by the vendor. In my experience, a professional vendor in such items will be able to produce some soft of documentation or at least explain the chain of authenticity. You may choose to think twice about someone who becomes hostile when legitimate questions are asked. 3. There was a recent fall in Park Forest, near Chicago, IL. I would imagine there will be a lot of "Park Forest" meteorites for sale, far more than was reportedly recovered. If you are in the market for pieces from this find, do your research to find out what kind of meteorite it was and what it looks like. I have seen some samples for sale on the Internet that could in no way be from any meteorite (unless meteorites look like Keokuk-type geodes sometimes) and definitely do not fit the description of the Park Forest find as I understand it. Also be scrupulous about what you consider a stamp of authenticity; an article by the finder in some non-refereed hobbyist's newsletter or magazine does not qualify by my standards. Good luck, have fun, stay safe, and buy sanely, Don Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rocksandfossils/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: rocksandfossils-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 27 08:09:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Tue Jan 27 08:09:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] buying meteorites & rare minerals in Tuscon Message-ID: <10c.2ec6b6da.2d47e6d5@aol.com> From: crescentstoneinc@aol.com www.crescentstone.com Steve DeLong/President 888-400-0094 We are a new natural stone producer with Stromatolite Stone in jasperized red, green, black. We have graded specimens from museum quality to some present. We have rough supplies, you do the work or finished/polished to your needs. If interested call 888-400-0094. Sincerely; Steve DeLong We will be in Tuscon 02/06/04 contact us at the telephone number or else email for location. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 27 08:23:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (HilmarKrocke) Date: Tue Jan 27 08:23:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for lava rock... any ideas? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: 2004.01.24 20:07Adam Donatelli i was wondering if anyone knew of some locations where you can find lava rock in BC? i am looking for a base for one of my carvings and any landscape place only caries up to 2" in size and i need something around 8 inches in diameter... so i figured that maybe i could find it out and about somewhere. Any Info would be greatly appreciated. Thanx Adam D _____________________________________________________________ Drive up towards Whistler. Right along the highway, in the vicinity of Daisy Lake, Brandywine Falls, Gallaghan Valley, there is Basalt (hexagonal columns) everywhere ! If you want you can call me : 604 986 8350 in North Vancouver. Hilmar --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 27 09:49:06 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Jan 27 09:49:06 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ultrasonic Drills In-Reply-To: <006d01c3e485$b4c357b0$e75a2741@johniepsh4mfjg> References: <003e01c3e394$6a217b70$e75a2741@johniepsh4mfjg> <6.0.1.1.2.20040126065027.01eb55a8@mail.spiritone.com> <006d01c3e485$b4c357b0$e75a2741@johniepsh4mfjg> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040127094346.01ea39f0@mail.spiritone.com> That I don't know; I only know that the fire agate and sunstone carvers that show up at the Dust Devil sunstone mine all drool over Imahashi drills. I imagine that since they are ultrasonic they can be tuned or used to carve, not just make holes...Bill Cox probably knows, he is www.gemcarver.com At 07:28 PM 1/26/2004, you wrote: Hi Tim, Very interesting answer. Why would a carver want an ultrasonic drill. It would seem to be good for punching a hole through a rock, but to contour fire agate how would it be used? I have a fair amount of fire agate rough, some very good, so this question is not only sincere - I'm going to hold my breath till you reply. By the way, we have Apaches to the east, Navajos and Hopis to the northeast, Pimas to the south and Chemehuevi and Mohaves to the west, but Imahashis are a new group to me.  I'll watch for their casino! John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 27 11:00:40 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Jan 27 11:00:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] buying meteorites & rare minerals in Tuscon In-Reply-To: <10c.2ec6b6da.2d47e6d5@aol.com> References: <10c.2ec6b6da.2d47e6d5@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040127105540.01eab578@mail.spiritone.com> Aren't list members restricted to one or two ads per month? At 08:07 AM 1/27/2004, you wrote: >From: crescentstoneinc@aol.com >www.crescentstone.com >Steve DeLong/President >888-400-0094 > > >We are a new natural stone producer with Stromatolite Stone in jasperized >red, green, black. We have graded specimens from museum quality to some >present. > We have rough supplies, you do the work or finished/polished to your > needs. >If interested call 888-400-0094. > > >Sincerely; Steve DeLong > > >We will be in Tuscon 02/06/04 contact us at the telephone number or else >email for location. > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 27 11:40:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Jan 27 11:40:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] buying meteorites & rare minerals in Tuscon In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040127105540.01eab578@mail.spiritone.com> References: <10c.2ec6b6da.2d47e6d5@aol.com> <10c.2ec6b6da.2d47e6d5@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040127095603.029b8890@mail.aloha.net> I don't remember that rule (though it sounds like a good idea), but I thought the subject line was supposed to have "Ad" in it. At 08:56 AM 1/27/2004, you wrote: >Aren't list members restricted to one or two ads per month? > >At 08:07 AM 1/27/2004, you wrote: >>From: crescentstoneinc@aol.com >>www.crescentstone.com >>Steve DeLong/President >>888-400-0094 >> >> >>We are a new natural stone producer with Stromatolite Stone in jasperized >>red, green, black. We have graded specimens from museum quality to some >>present. >> We have rough supplies, you do the work or finished/polished to your needs. >>If interested call 888-400-0094. >> >> >>Sincerely; Steve DeLong >> >> >>We will be in Tuscon 02/06/04 contact us at the telephone number or else >>email for location. >> >> >>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >>--- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com >Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com >CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD >Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary >Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers >Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale >Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.563 / Virus Database: 355 - Release Date: 1/17/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.563 / Virus Database: 355 - Release Date: 1/17/2004 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 27 11:49:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Tue Jan 27 11:49:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] buying meteorites & rare minerals in Tuscon Message-ID: <012720041948.3345.60b@att.net> Kitty, I think at some point there was a vote and the members decided twice a month or once a week or something close to that. The original charter of the list was essentially non-commercial, if I remember correctly, and since then we have come to a compromise that everyone seems to like. Aaron? In any case, I am not happy that someone replied to my original, informational, non-commercial post with an off-topic piggyback ad. Don From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 27 11:50:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Tue Jan 27 11:50:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Important: Mydoom e-mail VIRUS ALERT - Open attachments WITH CAUTION Message-ID: Hi all, I just wanted to let you know that an e-mail with a very evil virus attachment is flying around the internet today and yesterday. The Network Associates website lists it as a *High-Outbreak* virus and it is called "W32/Mydoom@MM". I have received the e-mail from 50 different people in less than 24 hours and the attachment is 22kb in size and is a .zip file (so it gets thru most anti-spam software). If you open the .zip attachment in WinZip, the compressed file will appear to be a normal file (such as a .htm), but the file type is listed as a "screensaver". But, the file is actually a .exe file that WILL do damage to your computer if you run it. DO NOT RUN IT!!! The body of the message is usually just one line that says one of the following (or it may even be blank): "The message contains Unicode characters and has been sent as a binary attachment." "The message cannot be represented in 7-bit ASCII encoding and has been sent as a binary attachment." "Mail transaction failed. Partial message is available." I also got it in an e-mail that looked like a valid "mailer daemon" message. Please see the Network Associates website (www.nai.com) for full details about the virus and how to get rid of it. Regards, Bob Loeffler Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 27 13:18:11 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Jan 27 13:18:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] buying meteorites & rare minerals in Tuscon In-Reply-To: <012720041948.3345.60b@att.net> References: <012720041948.3345.60b@att.net> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040127131342.01ec2e78@mail.spiritone.com> Don, that was my (implied) point. :) And yes, the word AD is supposed to be first in the title. Hopefully the poster is reading these and will conform to the policy in the future...else they might find their stay on this list to be a rather short one ;) At 11:48 AM 1/27/2004, you wrote: >Kitty, > >I think at some point there was a vote and the members decided twice a month >or once a week or something close to that. The original charter of the list >was essentially non-commercial, if I remember correctly, and since then we >have come to a compromise that everyone seems to like. Aaron? > >In any case, I am not happy that someone replied to my original, >informational, non-commercial post with an off-topic piggyback ad. > >Don > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 27 13:20:03 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Jerry (Flyrodman)) Date: Tue Jan 27 13:20:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Important: Mydoom e-mail VIRUS ALERT - Open attachments WITH CAUTION In-Reply-To: "Bob Loeffler" 's message of Tue, 27 Jan 2004 12:49:53 -0700 Message-ID: <20746-4016D5A4-2456@storefull-3251.bay.webtv.net> Hey Computer People, We Webbies don't get a chance very often to "blow our horns", so I've got to take this opportunity to say, "Webtv Sets cannot get viruses"! Hooray, score a point for us "Poor Cousins"!---And don't ask me what Make of Faceter I own! -- You can probably guess. :-) >From Florida Jerry Gemhunter@webtv.net From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 27 13:22:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Tue Jan 27 13:22:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] www.peaktopeak.com is up and running now! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi all, My e-mail and http://www.peaktopeak.com are now working again! There are 4 major changes: (1) The North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club's website is now at: http://www.peaktopeak.com/njeffco/index.php (2) The Colorado Rockhounding website is now at: http://www.peaktopeak.com/colorado/index.php3 (3) The Fluorite Gallery website is now at: http://www.peaktopeak.com/fluorite/index.php3 (4) The Blanchard Rock Shop's website is now at: http://www.peaktopeak.com/blanchard/index.htm or http://www.blanchardrockshop.com Thank you for your patience! Bob Loeffler -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Bob Loeffler Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 12:29 PM To: Rockhounds Subject: [Rockhounds] My main e-mail and www.peaktopeak.com are temporarily down until further notice... Hi all, Due to circumstances beyond my control, the http://www.peaktopeak.com website (and its sub-websites) and my main e-mail account (BobL@peaktopeak.com) are temporarily out of service. I am working to rectify this situation and hope everything will be up within the next couple days. I was planning on changing the website structure a little anyway (e.g. removing the "/minerals" directory), so I guess this is a good time to do it. I'll let everyone know the details when the site is up again. In the meantime, I am able to use my Qwest e-mail account, so if you sent me any e-mails yesterday or earlier today, please resend them to: BobL@qwest.net Thank you for your patience. Regards, Bob Loeffler _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 27 13:23:27 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Jan 27 13:23:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Important: Mydoom e-mail VIRUS ALERT - Open attachments WITH CAUTION In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040127131551.01ec3108@mail.spiritone.com> FWIW Symantec calls it novarg:http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.novarg.a@mm.html Whatever it is I cannot believe that people still click randomly on email attachments. I got at least 75 of them since yesterday. IMHO they should have their Internet connection physically severed until they learn better... At 11:49 AM 1/27/2004, you wrote: >Hi all, > >I just wanted to let you know that an e-mail with a very evil virus >attachment is flying around the internet today and yesterday. The Network >Associates website lists it as a *High-Outbreak* virus and it is called >"W32/Mydoom@MM". I have received the e-mail from 50 different people in less >than 24 hours and the attachment is 22kb in size and is a .zip file (so it >gets thru most anti-spam software). > >If you open the .zip attachment in WinZip, the compressed file will appear >to be a normal file (such as a .htm), but the file type is listed as a >"screensaver". But, the file is actually a .exe file that WILL do damage to >your computer if you run it. DO NOT RUN IT!!! > >The body of the message is usually just one line that says one of the >following (or it may even be blank): > >"The message contains Unicode characters and has been sent as a binary >attachment." > >"The message cannot be represented in 7-bit ASCII encoding and has been sent >as a binary attachment." > >"Mail transaction failed. Partial message is available." > >I also got it in an e-mail that looked like a valid "mailer daemon" message. > >Please see the Network Associates website (www.nai.com) for full details >about the virus and how to get rid of it. > >Regards, > >Bob Loeffler >Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster >North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) >http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ >and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) > >Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: >http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue Jan 27 14:03:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jan 27 14:03:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Important: Mydoom e-mail VIRUS ALERT - Open attachments WITH CAUTION References: Message-ID: <001101c3e521$32895b90$7fab77d5@axel> Hi Bob, thanks for the warning! It was on the news here in Belgium... it appears to be very agressive indeed. Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Loeffler" To: "Rockhounds" Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 8:49 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Important: Mydoom e-mail VIRUS ALERT - Open attachments WITH CAUTION > Hi all, > > I just wanted to let you know that an e-mail with a very evil virus > attachment is flying around the internet today and yesterday. The Network > Associates website lists it as a *High-Outbreak* virus and it is called > "W32/Mydoom@MM". I have received the e-mail from 50 different people in less > than 24 hours and the attachment is 22kb in size and is a .zip file (so it > gets thru most anti-spam software). > > If you open the .zip attachment in WinZip, the compressed file will appear > to be a normal file (such as a .htm), but the file type is listed as a > "screensaver". But, the file is actually a .exe file that WILL do damage to > your computer if you run it. DO NOT RUN IT!!! > > The body of the message is usually just one line that says one of the > following (or it may even be blank): > > "The message contains Unicode characters and has been sent as a binary > attachment." > > "The message cannot be represented in 7-bit ASCII encoding and has been sent > as a binary attachment." > > "Mail transaction failed. Partial message is available." > > I also got it in an e-mail that looked like a valid "mailer daemon" message. > > Please see the Network Associates website (www.nai.com) for full details > about the virus and how to get rid of it. > > Regards, > > Bob Loeffler > Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster > North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) > http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/njeffco/ > and a member of the Rock & Mineral Society (RAMS) > > Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: > http://www.peaktopeak.com/minerals/colorado/ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 28 04:04:04 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Horst Windisch) Date: Wed Jan 28 04:04:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ultrasonic Drills References: <003e01c3e394$6a217b70$e75a2741@johniepsh4mfjg> <6.0.1.1.2.20040126065027.01eb55a8@mail.spiritone.com> <006d01c3e485$b4c357b0$e75a2741@johniepsh4mfjg> Message-ID: <000d01c3e595$7142d900$754227c4@horstspc> Hi List, Is Imahashi not a Japanese make? Horst ----- Original Message ----- From: "John McLaughlin" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 5:28 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Ultrasonic Drills > Hi Tim, > > Very interesting answer. Why would a carver want an ultrasonic drill. It > would seem to be good for punching a hole through a rock, but to contour > fire agate how would it be used? I have a fair amount of fire agate rough, > some very good, so this question is not only sincere - I'm going to hold my > breath till you reply. > > By the way, we have Apaches to the east, Navajos and Hopis to the northeast, > Pimas to the south and Chemehuevi and Mohaves to the west, but Imahashis are > a new group to me. I'll watch for their casino! > > John McLaughlin > Glendale, Arizona > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Fisher" > To: > Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 7:51 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Ultrasonic Drills > > > > Good news! You are in the heart of Imahashi country :) Go talk to your > > local fire agate carver, they covet these drills... > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 28 05:58:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Jan 28 05:58:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ultrasonic Drills In-Reply-To: <000d01c3e595$7142d900$754227c4@horstspc> References: <003e01c3e394$6a217b70$e75a2741@johniepsh4mfjg> <6.0.1.1.2.20040126065027.01eb55a8@mail.spiritone.com> <006d01c3e485$b4c357b0$e75a2741@johniepsh4mfjg> <000d01c3e595$7142d900$754227c4@horstspc> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040128055503.01ebd4c0@mail.spiritone.com> Horst, I believe that was a bit of Arizona humor :) At 08:44 AM 1/27/2004, you wrote: >Hi List, > >Is Imahashi not a Japanese make? > >Horst >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John McLaughlin" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 5:28 AM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Ultrasonic Drills > > > > Hi Tim, > > > > Very interesting answer. Why would a carver want an ultrasonic drill. It > > would seem to be good for punching a hole through a rock, but to contour > > fire agate how would it be used? I have a fair amount of fire agate >rough, > > some very good, so this question is not only sincere - I'm going to hold >my > > breath till you reply. > > > > By the way, we have Apaches to the east, Navajos and Hopis to the >northeast, > > Pimas to the south and Chemehuevi and Mohaves to the west, but Imahashis >are > > a new group to me. I'll watch for their casino! > > > > John McLaughlin > > Glendale, Arizona > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 28 07:24:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Frank de Wit) Date: Wed Jan 28 07:24:01 2004 Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Rockhounds] Important: Mydoom e-mail VIRUS ALERT References: <20746-4016D5A4-2456@storefull-3251.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: <00f901c3e5b2$b1c0fc60$897ba8c0@cm333814lt> 90% of the tv settop boxes with internet access have linux/bsd-based OS-ses there are enough Linux aware virusses (see http://www.sophos.com/virusinfo/analyses/index_linuxworm.html) and you can receive/read email with settop boxes, or even POP your mail to the box itself; so by theory also Doom-alike worms so settop boxes can get virusses, sorry :-( seeing your email address: your settop box is Microsoft based ;-) http://www.webtv.net/pc/default.aspx you will have MSN webmail... cheers! Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry (Flyrodman)" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 10:18 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Important: Mydoom e-mail VIRUS ALERT - Openattachments WITH CAUTION > Hey Computer People, We Webbies don't get a chance very often to "blow > our horns", so I've got to take this opportunity to say, "Webtv Sets > cannot get viruses"! Hooray, score a point for us "Poor Cousins"!---And > don't ask me what Make of Faceter I own! -- You can probably guess. :-) > From Florida Jerry Gemhunter@webtv.net > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 28 07:42:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Michael Schmidt) Date: Wed Jan 28 07:42:01 2004 Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Rockhounds] Important: Mydoom e-mail VIRUS ALERT References: <20746-4016D5A4-2456@storefull-3251.bay.webtv.net> <00f901c3e5b2$b1c0fc60$897ba8c0@cm333814lt> Message-ID: <04e401c3e5b5$32d09e80$0fca94d1@remains> here's a thought.....DON'T open attachments on suspicious emails. that alone would eliminate the vast majority of virus spread...including this new one. But, after years and years of people being told this, nothing changes which is EXACTLY why new viruses or worms are still engineered to be spread in this fashion. People open attachments no matter how many times they are warned about it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank de Wit" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 8:23 AM Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Rockhounds] Important: Mydoom e-mail VIRUS ALERT > 90% of the tv settop boxes with internet access have linux/bsd-based OS-ses > there are enough Linux aware virusses (see > http://www.sophos.com/virusinfo/analyses/index_linuxworm.html) > and you can receive/read email with settop boxes, or even POP your mail to > the box itself; so by theory also Doom-alike worms > so settop boxes can get virusses, sorry :-( > seeing your email address: your settop box is Microsoft based ;-) > http://www.webtv.net/pc/default.aspx > you will have MSN webmail... > > cheers! Frank > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry (Flyrodman)" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 10:18 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Important: Mydoom e-mail VIRUS ALERT - > Openattachments WITH CAUTION > > > > Hey Computer People, We Webbies don't get a chance very often to "blow > > our horns", so I've got to take this opportunity to say, "Webtv Sets > > cannot get viruses"! Hooray, score a point for us "Poor Cousins"!---And > > don't ask me what Make of Faceter I own! -- You can probably guess. :-) > > From Florida Jerry Gemhunter@webtv.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 28 07:56:14 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Joe Mulvey) Date: Wed Jan 28 07:56:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] San Fran in March Message-ID: <20040128155152.92554.qmail@web20027.mail.yahoo.com> Hi List! I'll be in San Francisco, CA for 4 days in March. I am thinking I can get some time to go mineral hunting from sunup to mid afternoon on one day. Does anyone have suggestions on where to go? I'll have a rental car. Thanks in advance! You all rock! Joe Joe Mulvey Nashua, NH -- USA http://home.comcast.net/~mgag1 --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 28 08:18:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Wed Jan 28 08:18:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Did spam make it through? Message-ID: Did anybody else get this spam? Can't access the mail logs, so I'm not sure if it went out to the list. If so, I apolgize profusely. -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox Highway Patrolman: "Sir, do you know how fast you were going?" Heisenberg: "No, but I know EXACTLY where I was!" ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 28 Jan 04 14:19:21 GMT From: Addie Watkins To: rockhounds@drizzle.com Subject: Calm down, nothing happened in my chat ark Hi, My name is Debby, and I`ve just setup my first Webcam at :
How about I strip for you ? See you there !! Debby mtatfg asryrwjxihk wgsimp p q sma nhix zdj From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 28 08:22:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Wed Jan 28 08:22:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Crystal -- a poem Message-ID: Crystal Look into a crystal! What is it that we see? What is its attraction to him, and her and me? So clear and firmly shaped, with lines and angles crisp, long lines in parallel angled to a perfect tip. Inside glitter rainbows, from bent rays of the sun, gorgeous brilliant colors, through our crystal run. We can see its center. What lovely translucence! No stain, flaw or evil, we feel God's innocence. Among human beings exists no surety. We have too little trust, and too much pain and grief. A crystal we can trust. It won't exact a toll. It excites and delights and speaks right to our soul. JPS 1/27/04 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 28 08:47:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Gary Brown) Date: Wed Jan 28 08:47:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Crystal -- a poem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00a301c3e5be$482420a0$6501a8c0@moose> Nice... But... A Gentle Reminder: NEVER use "cc:" when sending out a note to a bunch of folks. Use "BCC:" (blind copy). That way you don't give away a ton of folk's email addresses that may not want 'em given out. (Also... This is the way spammers harvest emails). Regards, Gary > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > JScully216@aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 9:11 AM > To: A Big List.... > Subject: [Rockhounds] Crystal -- a poem > > > Crystal > > Look into a crystal! > What is it that we see? > What is its attraction > to him, and her and me?... From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 28 09:28:40 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kris Murray) Date: Wed Jan 28 09:28:40 2004 Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Rockhounds] Important: Mydoom e-mail VIRUS ALERT In-Reply-To: <00f901c3e5b2$b1c0fc60$897ba8c0@cm333814lt> References: <20746-4016D5A4-2456@storefull-3251.bay.webtv.net> <00f901c3e5b2$b1c0fc60$897ba8c0@cm333814lt> Message-ID: i would worry about web tv having msn webmail more than being 8nix based ~KM On Jan 28, 2004, at 7:23 AM, Frank de Wit wrote: > seeing your email address: your settop box is Microsoft based ;-) > http://www.webtv.net/pc/default.aspx > you will have MSN webmail... > You see things and you say, "Why?" But I dream things that never were=20 and say, "Why not?" =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0--- George Bernard Shaw --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 28 09:39:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Frank de Wit) Date: Wed Jan 28 09:39:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Did spam make it through? References: Message-ID: <014201c3e5c5$8f9ee8a0$897ba8c0@cm333814lt> unfortinately not what was the url you stripped out ? :-0 or is this an hidden advert for your own webcam Aaron ;-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Fox" To: "Rockhounds mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 5:17 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Did spam make it through? > Did anybody else get this spam? Can't access the mail logs, so I'm not > sure if it went out to the list. If so, I apolgize profusely. > > -- > afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox > Highway Patrolman: "Sir, do you know how fast you were going?" > Heisenberg: "No, but I know EXACTLY where I was!" > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 04 14:19:21 GMT > From: Addie Watkins > To: rockhounds@drizzle.com > Subject: Calm down, nothing happened in my chat ark > > Hi, > My name is Debby, and I`ve just setup my first Webcam at : > >
> How about I strip for you ? > > See you there !! > Debby > > > > mtatfg > asryrwjxihk wgsimp p q sma > nhix zdj > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 28 09:57:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Wed Jan 28 09:57:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Did spam make it through? In-Reply-To: <014201c3e5c5$8f9ee8a0$897ba8c0@cm333814lt> Message-ID: > unfortinately not > what was the url you stripped out ? Don't remember. Some porno spam. Looks like Procmail classified it into the wrong folder by accident. False alarm, everybody. My bad. > :-0 > or is this an hidden advert for your own webcam Aaron ;-) I don't think many people would pay to see that... :-p BTW: If anyone here is running SpamAssassin and wants a huge custom ruleset, just give me a shout offline. I've got a user_prefs file that tags about 99% of the spam I get correctly (at least up to this point). a. -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox Highway Patrolman: "Sir, do you know how fast you were going?" Heisenberg: "No, but I know EXACTLY where I was!" From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 28 16:23:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Wed Jan 28 16:23:01 2004 Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Rockhounds] Important: Mydoom e-mail VIRUS ALERT In-Reply-To: <04e401c3e5b5$32d09e80$0fca94d1@remains> Message-ID: Unfortunately, even if all of us take your suggestion to heart, there are thousands of newbies who get new e-mail accounts EVERY DAY and therefore can't see/hear your suggestion. I think all ISPs should make a huge effort in pointing this out to all of their new customers. I'm sure some ISPs do this already, but most probably don't. Neither my ISP nor my webhost (2 separate companies) told me anything about viruses, spams, etc. I already know this stuff, but newbies won't. You usually have to poke around on their websites to find this info. Regards, Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Michael Schmidt Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 8:41 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: OFFTOPIC Re: [Rockhounds] Important: Mydoom e-mail VIRUS ALERT here's a thought.....DON'T open attachments on suspicious emails. that alone would eliminate the vast majority of virus spread...including this new one. But, after years and years of people being told this, nothing changes which is EXACTLY why new viruses or worms are still engineered to be spread in this fashion. People open attachments no matter how many times they are warned about it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank de Wit" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 8:23 AM Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Rockhounds] Important: Mydoom e-mail VIRUS ALERT > 90% of the tv settop boxes with internet access have linux/bsd-based OS-ses > there are enough Linux aware virusses (see > http://www.sophos.com/virusinfo/analyses/index_linuxworm.html) > and you can receive/read email with settop boxes, or even POP your mail to > the box itself; so by theory also Doom-alike worms > so settop boxes can get virusses, sorry :-( > seeing your email address: your settop box is Microsoft based ;-) > http://www.webtv.net/pc/default.aspx > you will have MSN webmail... > > cheers! Frank > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry (Flyrodman)" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 10:18 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Important: Mydoom e-mail VIRUS ALERT - > Openattachments WITH CAUTION > > > > Hey Computer People, We Webbies don't get a chance very often to "blow > > our horns", so I've got to take this opportunity to say, "Webtv Sets > > cannot get viruses"! Hooray, score a point for us "Poor Cousins"!---And > > don't ask me what Make of Faceter I own! -- You can probably guess. :-) > > From Florida Jerry Gemhunter@webtv.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed Jan 28 21:29:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kris Murray) Date: Wed Jan 28 21:29:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Puddingstone, P.S. In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040126113824.02055b70@mail.aloha.net> References: <012620042033.19557.6b38@att.net> <012620042033.19557.6b38@att.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20040126113824.02055b70@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <084B1A82-521C-11D8-81CF-000A95AF049E@mac.com> thanks again! the last link, BTW, is bad now, but the first two are great! ~KM They may forget what you said, but they will never forget how you made them feel. --- Carl W. Buechner On Jan 26, 2004, at 1:39 PM, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > http://www.geosymbols.org/geo/index.php > http://www.minsocam.org/msa/collectors_corner/index.htm > http://www.intersurf.com/~heinrich/statefossil.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu Jan 29 11:25:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Jim Daly) Date: Thu Jan 29 11:25:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chat about gem-digging in Tucson? References: <20040126222139.RQMS21310.simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@smtp8.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <001401c3e69c$a63fedc0$2d5204d0@jim> Hans, Is your TV series available on VHS tape? We haven't been able to see it in the US, and I suspect my club in Illinois might be interested. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales Microminerals and mounting supplies http://www.sauktown.com sauktown@adsnet.com or orders@sauktown.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 4:21 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Chat about gem-digging in Tucson? > > Hi everyone, > > Through a combination of cicumstances as unexpected as it is welcome I'll be spending two weeks in Tucson - my first Tucson ever. > > I'll be at the Alpha Supply booth which is at 2500 East Ajo Way in the Keano Sports Park and would be delighted to meet some of you in person if your Tucson steps should lead you there. > > I'd particularly welcome chatting with anyone who can tell me stories about, information on, contacts to, people who are actively engaged in digging for gems and minerals. Basically, who is digging what, where. Some of you may be familiar with the "Stones of Fate and Fortune" series which I originated and which was broadcast on the Canadian Discovery Channel in the spring and again in the autumn of last year. I'm now seeking contacts to people and information to help flesh out a related project-in-development which is presently making its rounds among production houses and broacasters. So if you know of anyone who is doing & digging neat things in some exotic corner of the world or of Maine, why not drop by? > > Plus I'll have a few, very few, Bay of Fundy mineral specimens and an equally small number (remember all this is quite unexpected, so I'm coming unprepared in that respect) of finished Bay of Fundy agates. But I will have some slabs and a milk crate or two of Bay of Fundy rough though. > > Cheers and regards > Hans Durstling > snow-refugee from the Bay of Fundy > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri Jan 30 13:12:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Gary Brown) Date: Fri Jan 30 13:12:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Mars Images In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001601c3e775$b1091c20$6501a8c0@moose> Hi all... Time for another visit to the Mars site! There are some amazing images: http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html This one of "Adirondack" shows features as small as 0.10mm! http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/spirit/20040130a/2M127876510EFF 0327P2931M2M1-A026R1.jpg (the above should all on one line...your email viewer may have broken it into more than one line!) Regards, Gary http://www.catspaw-minerals.com Home of MasMils/PLUS Mine Location Disk