From CrescentStoneINC at aol.com Thu Jul 1 06:08:42 2004 From: CrescentStoneINC at aol.com (CrescentStoneINC@aol.com) Date: Thu Jul 1 06:08:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ad: Fantastic fossilized organism stromatolite stone for sale. Message-ID: <15e.30eb7e00.2e1566da@aol.com> From: Crescent Stone Company crescentstoneinc@aol.com http://www.crescentstone.com/ 2915 West 44th Street Mpls., MN 55410 888-400-0094 We have what geologists are calling the find of the century, beautiful fossilized stone with algae embedded in stone with colors that will simply leave you speechless. Eyes as big as quarters, tubes as long as 22", with mineral replacement with such minerals as jasper, quartz, ect. Much of our stone has the ability for jewelry, it's just that fantastic. It is very hard, so will not flake as some sedimentary subjects do. We have sample picture to file that can be Emailed to you upon request. As always all shipments are guaranteed, all returns are immediately credited back to you upon reciept of material. Going up to waveboard at Tettegouche State Park on Baptism River, be back 06/03/04. Sincerely; Steve DeLong/Owner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Docia1154 at aol.com Thu Jul 1 07:30:54 2004 From: Docia1154 at aol.com (Docia1154@aol.com) Date: Thu Jul 1 07:31:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cleaning rocks Message-ID: <11.2d40fa40.2e157a1e@aol.com> In a message dated 6/30/2004 10:06:43 PM Central Daylight Time, enash@mn.rr.com writes: I've found stuff called Yellow Out - made by Iron Out in Fort Wayne, Indiana is superb for getting rust stains off minerals. It contains sodium hydrosulfite, sodium bisulfite, sodium carbonate, sodium sulphate. It is so gentle you can soak calcite crystals in it for hours with no damage or dulling to the crystals. No damage to fluorite, either. Heavy iron oxides may require several "baths". wow, I didn't think there was anything that you could use to clean calcite. I have been collecting some specimens here this week and now I have to go see if I can find that. Thanks for the info Docia --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Thu Jul 1 09:11:15 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Jul 1 09:11:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: New supply of Dust Devil Sunstones Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.2.20040701091042.02aaa4e0@mail.spiritone.com> Just a quickie to let you all know that I am just back from the Dust Devil with a new supply of colored & schiller sunstones. The digging is depressingly hard this year so I don't have my usual huge quantities the good stuff. I do have enough to satisfy more than a few of your cravings for the best sunstones there are. http://orerockon.com/sunstone.htm Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From tim at orerockon.com Thu Jul 1 09:15:03 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Jul 1 09:15:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ad: Fantastic fossilized organism stromatolite stone for sale. In-Reply-To: <15e.30eb7e00.2e1566da@aol.com> References: <15e.30eb7e00.2e1566da@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.2.20040701091441.01e15ec0@mail.spiritone.com> Let's do the time warp again! At 06:08 AM 7/1/2004, you wrote: >Going up to waveboard at Tettegouche State Park on Baptism River, be back >06/03/04. > > >Sincerely; Steve DeLong/Owner Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From lehkerd at gvsu.edu Thu Jul 1 10:27:46 2004 From: lehkerd at gvsu.edu (David Lehker) Date: Thu Jul 1 10:28:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cleaning rocks Message-ID: Thanks to all who responded to my inquiry about chemical cleaning of minerals. I particularly appreciate the idea of using less toxic solutions in light of the recient postings. I really do want my lungs to function for a few more years! Dave >>> Docia1154@aol.com 07/01/04 10:30AM >>> In a message dated 6/30/2004 10:06:43 PM Central Daylight Time, enash@mn.rr.com writes: I've found stuff called Yellow Out - made by Iron Out in Fort Wayne, Indiana is superb for getting rust stains off minerals. It contains sodium hydrosulfite, sodium bisulfite, sodium carbonate, sodium sulphate. It is so gentle you can soak calcite crystals in it for hours with no damage or dulling to the crystals. No damage to fluorite, either. Heavy iron oxides may require several "baths". wow, I didn't think there was anything that you could use to clean calcite. I have been collecting some specimens here this week and now I have to go see if I can find that. Thanks for the info Docia --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From lanny at lrream.com Thu Jul 1 10:27:59 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Thu Jul 1 10:28:19 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collecting suggestions - Utah In-Reply-To: <20040701030157.EAD62EA81B7@delivery.infowest.com> References: <20040701030157.EAD62EA81B7@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: Hi Margaret, That's Rock Corral, and you have been given bad information. Unless it has changed in the last couple of years, you can drive in there with most any vehicle. Finding the smoky quartz is difficult, the area has been picked over. Big pockets were found down low, around the scattered granite outcrops, but there are cavities up in the rocks and on occasion I still hear of someone finding a good smoky pocket up there. I found my very first smoky pocket in there quite a few years ago. Rock Corral is a nice place to camp in the spring, rather hot and dry in the summer. Lanny On Jun 30, 2004, at 8:02 PM, Margaret Malm wrote: > > Hi, Dave. There is an old iron mine near Cedar City where you can > still > find lots of neat magnetite xls, some apatite, and msc other things. > In the mineral Mountains, there is a place not too far from Milford > called > (if I remember right), the Rock Pasture, or some such. I have not been > there, as you apparently need a high-clearance vehicle to get there. > And it > does, they say, take a heap 'o digging to find anything good. West of > Milford is an old copper mine, the "Old Hickory', where I have found > some > nice copper and iron minerals and suchlike. > Go on north of Milford on the highway a ways and take one of the > (unpaved) > roads that goes off to the right; lots of obsidian. And on one (the > southernmost one, as I recall) there is a geothermal power plant; turn > off > toward it and follow the road around past it and you'll find a place > where > there is sulfur around a little hot spring area. > South of St. George (out past Fort Pierce) is an old Selenite mine, > and it > is really neat. The selenite is in big (huge!) sheets, and the > pioneers used > it instead of glass in their windows, as it is nice and clear. > > There's a kind of neat old rock shop at the south end of Beaver. > Used to be a similar one in Milford, but the lady died a few years ago > and > the kids were trying to sell it; don't know what happened. > > Margaret > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of David Lehker > Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 11:12 AM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Collecting suggestions - Utah > > > My wife and I will be flying to las Vegas in several weeks to explore > southwestern Utah (and/or areas between Nevada and Utah). We have > purchased the books that list sites - Rockhounding and Gem trails - but > would be interested in any contacts or suggestions from rockhound list > folks. Our tentative schedule for a week includes Zion National Park > and the area around Cedar City and Beaver. Anything pertaining to the > Mineral Mountains or Wah Wah mountains would be great. We are also > open > to alternative routes you might suggest. > Feel free to respond off list. > Thanks in advance for any help, Dave > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From kadok at infowest.com Thu Jul 1 10:34:29 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Thu Jul 1 10:34:25 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Utah In-Reply-To: <2004630222248.330000@lanpc> Message-ID: <20040701173422.5FEDFEAA3D4@delivery.infowest.com> -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Rich Allen Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 9:23 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Utah On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 21:13:22 -0600, Margaret Malm wrote: > 2) There are at least three rockshops in Springdale; they are mostly pretty > "touristy", but occasionally you find some fairly nice stuff. But the > absolutely best rock shop in the area is in Virgin, right next to the > highway, about a block after you (coming from St. George or Cedar City) turn > to go up the big hill towards Zion. I thought that was LaVerkin? Rich Allen Oops! You're right! I was in too much of a hurry! Sorry! Anyhow, it is a really neat rock shop! Margaret _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Jul 1 11:13:44 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Jul 1 11:14:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ad: Fantastic fossilized organismstromatolite stone for sale. References: <15e.30eb7e00.2e1566da@aol.com> <6.1.1.1.2.20040701091441.01e15ec0@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <004a01c45f97$25852640$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> It's just a step to the right.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Ad: Fantastic fossilized organismstromatolite stone for sale. > Let's do the time warp again! > > At 06:08 AM 7/1/2004, you wrote: > >Going up to waveboard at Tettegouche State Park on Baptism River, be back > >06/03/04. > > > > > >Sincerely; Steve DeLong/Owner > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From vferriols at comcast.net Thu Jul 1 12:06:52 2004 From: vferriols at comcast.net (vferriols) Date: Thu Jul 1 12:06:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Where to collect? Message-ID: <002201c45f9e$921333e0$2802a8c0@VENANCIO546QD3> I am new to this and have no (no exact) idea where to start looking for legal collecting areas around Washington State (Puget Sound area or Columbia Basin). I would like an area where I could take my grandchildren (8 and 12). Appreciate any ideas. Vince vferriols@comcast.net --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tjokela at execulink.com Thu Jul 1 14:08:06 2004 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Thu Jul 1 14:08:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] best educational website on pegmatites? References: <40E0FC40.60407@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000f01c45faf$815abee0$6401a8c0@Junior> A Google search for pegmatites was disappointing; sites at the top of the list weren't that good and mostly seem to be selling stuff, with educational content as an afterthought. I know there's an incredible page on skarns out there, and I was sure the peg nuts would have one... any tips? Thanks for any info! Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com From Skarnrx at megalink.net Thu Jul 1 14:51:21 2004 From: Skarnrx at megalink.net (Duane) Date: Thu Jul 1 14:51:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] best educational website on pegmatites? In-Reply-To: <000f01c45faf$815abee0$6401a8c0@Junior> References: <40E0FC40.60407@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4.3.1.0.20040701174120.00cf5c28@pop.megalink.net> At 05:08 PM 7/1/2004 -0400, you wrote: >A Google search for pegmatites was disappointing; sites at the top of the >list weren't that good and mostly seem to be selling stuff, with educational >content as an afterthought. I know there's an incredible page on skarns out >there, and I was sure the peg nuts would have one... any tips? Re Pegmatites, go to Ray Sprague's site for the annual Peg Camp www.pegmatology.com/maine_pegcamp.htm - 5k ; also see the book PEGMATOLOGY by Wm Simmons et. al. from the MP2 Research Group, Univ. of New Orleans, LA. Also see the CREST project guidebook and resources, Maine Geological Survey - Contact Woody Thompson for details..hope his helps....Duane --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.708 / Virus Database: 464 - Release Date: 6/18/2004 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Thu Jul 1 16:06:24 2004 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Thu Jul 1 16:08:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kilauea Message-ID: <001b01c45fc0$0a965380$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> The volcano pictures on the site Kitty shared with us continues to be mesmerizing! I'm gonna have to get a bigger hard drive to save all these great pictures! If you haven't been there, or at least not lately, you cannot consider yourself a true rock and mineral lover. Besides the intrinsic beauty, this is the mantle of the earth boiling up and forming new rocks laden with minerals! WOW! In case you missed it the site is: http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/main.html BTW, Kitty, how close will the park rangers let the general public get to the hot stuff? Jeanette wants to "feel the heat". Glenn Wimpee Irvington, Alabama --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/gif --- From kahako at aloha.net Thu Jul 1 19:51:44 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Jul 1 19:26:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kilauea In-Reply-To: <001b01c45fc0$0a965380$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> References: <001b01c45fc0$0a965380$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040701143514.02c5a0d0@mail.aloha.net> It depends on where the hot stuff is. When it's going in the ocean they keep you back a ways because of the possibility that a shelf will collapse (dropping you into boiling water), and the plume of "laze" when the lava hits the water can be literally a killer (it contains sulfuric acid and bits of glass). But you can get close enough to feel a lot of heat in the air. When the red stuff is moving slowly across the ground inland, you can walk right up and poke a stick in it. Even there, though, if the lava is going over vegetation (as opposed to fairly recent lava where no vegetation has re-grown), they keep you back several meters because of the possibility of methane explosions. One time when I was watching such a slow flow an explosion went off with a loud "pumph" and a puff of debris went up in the air about five meters high, the crowd of people who had been closing in (to the consternation of the lone ranger on hand at the time) leaped back, and several not-very-athletic people ran away with astonishing speed and agility over the rough terrain. Another factor is that the rangers do not---or rather cannot---patrol and control the whole area. They put out markers for a trail to the best viewing spots, but often have to move these, sometimes every day or so, as conditions change. And they place red cones and yellow ribbons to mark off dangerous areas. But people regularly wander off the trail markers and around or over the ribbons, and there is seldom more than two or three rangers for the entire area, which is huge. And the rangers are there only during the daytime. Bill and I have seen incredibly stupid maneuvers by some visitors, like a guy at night wearing only shorts and rubber "flip-flop" sandals clambering past the ribbon right up to the edge of a cliff above the lava going in the ocean; no protection if he should fall on the lava which can cut like glass (guess what? it IS glass!), no flashlight, no water, no brains! A cloud of laze enveloped him and he came back coughing and rubbing tears from his eyes, and said, "Hey, dudes, that smarts," then noticed that his rubber slippers were melting! A year ago I invested in a 100-sheet package of photo paper and began printing off my favorite images from the hvo usgs site. There may be a better way to do this, but I then copy the appropriate picture caption (sometimes editing or augmenting it) into a word document that I've formatted so the print will come out in the border beneath the picture, and run the picture through the printer again. Finally I use a paper cutter to trim off the extraneous stuff that comes automatically when you print from the website. Now I have a collection of pictures with explanatory captions to show to friends and visitors. I suppose I could just paste the picture into word or paintshop and set everything up there. Will have to try that. Aloha, Kitty At 01:06 PM 7/1/2004, you wrote: >The volcano pictures on the site Kitty shared with us continues to be >mesmerizing! >I'm gonna have to get a bigger hard drive to save all these great pictures! >If you haven't been there, or at least not lately, you cannot consider >yourself a true rock and mineral lover. >Besides the intrinsic beauty, this is the mantle of the earth boiling up >and forming new rocks laden with minerals! WOW! >In case you missed it the site is: >http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/main.html >BTW, Kitty, how close will the park rangers let the general public get to >the hot stuff? >Jeanette wants to "feel the heat". > >Glenn Wimpee >Irvington, Alabama From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Jul 1 20:26:12 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Jul 1 20:03:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kilauea References: <001b01c45fc0$0a965380$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <40E4D05B.B89@Tomaszewski.net> Glenn, My wife and I went last year. The rangers typically mark out a trail that gets you within 50 feet or so of hot stuff. You are on your own out on the flow fields, so if you want to continue on, you can. I walked up to within a foot of a small advancing flow -- the larger flows were too hot to get that close to. You can see pictures with my trip report at http://Tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Minerals/FieldTrips.shtml which comes just after Kitty and Bill's visit that is at the top of the page. Kreigh Glenn Wimpee wrote: > > The volcano pictures on the site Kitty shared with us continues to be mesmerizing! > I'm gonna have to get a bigger hard drive to save all these great pictures! > If you haven't been there, or at least not lately, you cannot consider yourself a true rock and mineral lover. > Besides the intrinsic beauty, this is the mantle of the earth boiling up and forming new rocks laden with minerals! WOW! > In case you missed it the site is: > http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/main.html > BTW, Kitty, how close will the park rangers let the general public get to the hot stuff? > Jeanette wants to "feel the heat". > > Glenn Wimpee > Irvington, Alabama From Kpduties8 at aol.com Thu Jul 1 21:03:43 2004 From: Kpduties8 at aol.com (Kpduties8@aol.com) Date: Thu Jul 1 21:03:47 2004 Subject: Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Utah Message-ID: <19c.26258a60.2e16389f@aol.com> 1. I guess it rolls off the tongue with an S LOL Not a big deal to me, I am sure I have a dozen or more mistakes. Since most business "Locally in Utah" use the term "Zions" it just kinda slips off your tongue that way. LOL Oh well, just call me a rock hounding hick!! 2. I did say at the bottom, not being a "Local" that is as much as I know about the city names. Bottom, seemed appropriate. Sorry if I led you astray Dave. Kathy 1) First of all, Kathy, it is ZION National Park, *not Zions. No S on the end!* [I happen to work there, and we are quite sensitive about the local (Utah) peoples' habit of sticking on that "S".] 2) There are at least three rockshops in Springdale; they are mostly pretty "touristy", but occasionally you find some fairly nice stuff. But the absolutely best rock shop in the area is in Virgin, right next to the highway, about a block after you (coming from St. George or Cedar City) turn to go up the big hill towards Zion. Cheers! Margaret >I also forgot to say that at the bottom of Zions Park before you enter the >park, there is a really large rock shop. They are very nice people, and >have >wonderful rocks to look at and reasonably priced. I bet they could help >with l>ocations. there are also several more shops along the road, but the one >at the >bottom is my favorite. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kpduties8 at aol.com Thu Jul 1 21:14:23 2004 From: Kpduties8 at aol.com (Kpduties8@aol.com) Date: Thu Jul 1 21:14:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Utah Message-ID: <30.5a55c3e1.2e163b1f@aol.com> Actually, I think that the town is called LaVerkin at the bottom before you travel to the top of Zions. I don't know where Virgin is? That is South of St. George I believe. You can't miss this shop, it is on the East side of the street and you will love how friendly the people are. We picked up some rocks to tumble and make cabs from. You will see the shop easily it has a large outside area, easily spotted from the road. Kathy There are at least three rockshops in Springdale; they are mostly pretty "touristy", but occasionally you find some fairly nice stuff. But the absolutely best rock shop in the area is in Virgin, right next to the highway, about a block after you (coming from St. George or Cedar City) turn to go up the big hill towards Zion. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lehkerd at gvsu.edu Thu Jul 1 21:33:16 2004 From: lehkerd at gvsu.edu (David Lehker) Date: Thu Jul 1 21:33:42 2004 Subject: Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Utah Message-ID: Kathy and Margaret, No matter how you say it, I look forward to being there and appreciate all the suggestions. Folks on this list have been so helpful on a number of forays into unknown territory. Thanks to all, dave >>> Kpduties8@aol.com 07/02/04 12:03AM >>> 1. I guess it rolls off the tongue with an S LOL Not a big deal to me, I am sure I have a dozen or more mistakes. Since most business "Locally in Utah" use the term "Zions" it just kinda slips off your tongue that way. LOL Oh well, just call me a rock hounding hick!! 2. I did say at the bottom, not being a "Local" that is as much as I know about the city names. Bottom, seemed appropriate. Sorry if I led you astray Dave. Kathy 1) First of all, Kathy, it is ZION National Park, *not Zions. No S on the end!* [I happen to work there, and we are quite sensitive about the local (Utah) peoples' habit of sticking on that "S".] 2) There are at least three rockshops in Springdale; they are mostly pretty "touristy", but occasionally you find some fairly nice stuff. But the absolutely best rock shop in the area is in Virgin, right next to the highway, about a block after you (coming from St. George or Cedar City) turn to go up the big hill towards Zion. Cheers! Margaret >I also forgot to say that at the bottom of Zions Park before you enter the >park, there is a really large rock shop. They are very nice people, and >have >wonderful rocks to look at and reasonably priced. I bet they could help >with l>ocations. there are also several more shops along the road, but the one >at the >bottom is my favorite. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Thu Jul 1 21:51:46 2004 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Thu Jul 1 21:51:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Where to collect? In-Reply-To: <002201c45f9e$921333e0$2802a8c0@VENANCIO546QD3> References: <002201c45f9e$921333e0$2802a8c0@VENANCIO546QD3> Message-ID: <40E4E9E2.70402@tenforward.com> Hi Vince, Consider a trip to the library. There are several guide books (with maps) readily available at the bigger branches by folks like Bob Jackson (4 volumes) and another from Lanny Ream. These may have come out a while ago, but the information is still plenty useable. Check out the following websites also... http://www.mineralcouncil.org/ This is for the Washington State Mineral Council. They've lots of info. here, including local clubs for your consideration. Also, mail the WSMC contact person and request information about the map books they sell. Here's another site... http://members.tripod.com/~WTompkins/ Scroll down to the bottom of Bill's home page and read away. Consider doing some internet surfing too, you'll find there's several sites out there for you to check out. All the best, John vferriols wrote: >I am new to this and have no (no exact) idea where to start looking for legal collecting areas around Washington State (Puget Sound area or Columbia Basin). I would like an area where I could take my grandchildren (8 and 12). Appreciate any ideas. > >Vince >vferriols@comcast.net > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From kadok at infowest.com Thu Jul 1 22:35:50 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Thu Jul 1 22:35:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Utah In-Reply-To: <30.5a55c3e1.2e163b1f@aol.com> Message-ID: <20040702053543.3F809EAAD87@delivery.infowest.com> -----Original Message----- >Actually, I think that the town is called LaVerkin at the bottom before you travel to the top of Zions. >You can't miss this shop, it is on the East side of the street and you will love how friendly the people are. We picked up some rocks to tumble and make cabs from. You will see the shop easily it has a large outside area, easily spotted from the road. Right! Someone else already called me on that one. >I don't know where Virgin is? That is South of St. George I believe. Kathy Virgin is the little place you go through (on the way to ZION - no S!) after you have climbed up the "Twist" (the hill after you go up after after you leave the rock shop in LaVerkin) and gone across the flats for a few miles. It's where the road turns off that goes north up onto the Kolob Terrace (the way you go to get to Lava Point, for instance.) Margaret --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From dguin at earthlink.net Thu Jul 1 23:39:09 2004 From: dguin at earthlink.net (Dave Guin) Date: Thu Jul 1 23:38:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] best educational website on pegmatites? In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.0.20040701174120.00cf5c28@pop.megalink.net> References: <40E0FC40.60407@earthlink.net> <4.3.1.0.20040701174120.00cf5c28@pop.megalink.net> Message-ID: <40E5030D.10200@earthlink.net> Duane wrote: > At 05:08 PM 7/1/2004 -0400, you wrote: > >> A Google search for pegmatites was disappointing; sites at the top of >> the >> list weren't that good and mostly seem to be selling stuff, with >> educational >> content as an afterthought. I know there's an incredible page on >> skarns out >> there, and I was sure the peg nuts would have one... any tips? > > > Re Pegmatites, go to Ray Sprague's site for the annual Peg Camp > www.pegmatology.com/maine_pegcamp.htm - 5k > ; also see the book PEGMATOLOGY by Wm Simmons et. al. from the MP2 > Research Group, Univ. of New Orleans, LA. Also see the CREST project > guidebook and resources, Maine Geological Survey > - Contact Woody Thompson for details..hope his helps....Duane I heartily agree with the above sources. If you can get to the Pegmatite Workshop, you will NOT be disappointed. Also see; http://pegmatite.com/default.htm http://www.pegmatology.com/ Peace, dave From JWachsmuth at gmx.de Fri Jul 2 09:22:31 2004 From: JWachsmuth at gmx.de (Juergen Wachsmuth) Date: Fri Jul 2 09:49:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Manganese Minerals References: <14397405.1088626313836.JavaMail.uportal@KIL-UPT-1.UCIS.Dal.Ca> Message-ID: <40E58BC7.A4BB86E7@gmx.de> Hello Ronnie, manganese minerals are tough to identify. This reference is giving a few details on laboratory methods. Ostwald, J.: Some Manganese Oxides From the Australian Region Australian Mineralogist 1 / 1989, Jhrg. 4, S. 32-39. I have some interest in manganese oxides with tunnel structures. So I can add a few more references below. I am sure there are plenty more as these structures are interesting not only as minerals but even more for production of batteries etc. Regards, J?rgen Wachsmuth Ulm - Germany Post, J.E., Von Dreele, R.B., Buseck, P.R.: Symmetry and cation displacements in hollandites: Structure refinements of hollandite, cryptomelane and priderite Acta Crystallographica B * 0 / 1982, Jhrg. 38, S. 1056-1065. Vicat, J., Fanchon, E., Strobel, P., Tran Qui, D.: The structure of K1,33Mn8O16 and cation ordering in hollandite-type structures Acta Crystallographica B * 0 / 1986, Jhrg. 42, S. 162-167. ======================================== Zhang, J.M., Ko, J., Hazen, R.M., Prewitt, C.T.: High-pressure crystal chemistry of KAlSi3O8 hollandite American Mineralogist 0 / 1993, Jhrg. 78, S. 493-499. McKeown, D.A., Post, J.E., : Characterization of manganese oxide mineralogy in rock varnish and dendrites using X-ray absorption spectroscopy American Mineralogist 5-6 / 2001, Jhrg. 86, S. 701-713. Post, JE, Heaney, PJ, Hanson,J: Synchrotron X-ray diffraction study of the structure and dehydration behavior of todorokite American Mineralogist 1 / 2003, Jhrg. 88, S. 142-150. ======================================== Ostwald, J., , : Some investigations on todorokite mineralogy Australian Mineralogist 37 / 1982, Jhrg. 1, S. 198-199. ======================================== Foley, J.A., Hughes, J.M., Drexler, J.W.: Redledgeite, structure and elucidation of the sequence of tunnel Ba cations Canadian Mineralogist 0 / 1997, Jhrg. 35, S. 1531-1534. Meisser, N, Perseil, E.A., Brugger, J, Chiappero, P.J.: Strontiomelane, a new mineral species of the cryptomelane group from St. Marcel-Praborna, Aosta Valley, Italy Canadian Mineralogist 3 / 1999, Jhrg. 37, S. 673-678. Mitchell, R.H., Yakovenchuk, V.N., Chakhmouradian, A.R., Burns, P.C., Pakhomovsky, Y.A.: Henrymeyerite, a new hollandite-type Ba-Fe titanate from the Kovdor complex, Russia Canadian Mineralogist 3 / 2000, Jhrg. 38, S. 617-626. ======================================== Randall, S.R., Sherman, D.M., Ragnarsdottir, K.V.: An extended X-ray absorption fine structure spectroscopy investigation of cadmium sorption on cryptomelan (KMn8O16) Chemical Geology 0 / 1998, Jhrg. 151, S. 95-106. ======================================== Lu, Anhuai, Gao, Xiang, Qin, Shan, Wang, Changqiu: Cryptomelane (KxMn8-xO16): Natural active octahedral molecular sieve (OMS-2) Chinese Science Bulletin 9 / 2003, Jhrg. 48, S. 920-923. ======================================== Ching, St, Suib, S. L., : Synthetic routes to microporous manganese oxides Comments on Inorganic Chemistry 5 / 1997, Jhrg. 19, S. 263-282. ======================================== Schreyer, W, Fransolet, A.M, Bernhardt, H.J.: Hollandite-strontiomelane solid solutions coexisting with kanonaite and braunite in late quartz veins of the Stavelot Massif, Ardennes, Belgium Contributions to Mineralogy and Petrology 5 / 2001, Jhrg. 141, S. 560-571. Ronnie F Van Dommelen schrieb: > Hi All, > > Hope the collecting season has been good to everyone so far. > > Does anyone know of papers or books that discuss the manganese minerals (ex. manganite, pyrolusite, hausmannite, ramsdellite, groutite). In particular I would be interested in ways to identify these minerals. Also crystallography (especially of pyrolusite) or other info would be useful. > > Thanks in advance. > > Happy Collecting, > Ronnie Van Dommelen > Nova Scotia, Canada > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kpduties8 at aol.com Fri Jul 2 20:25:52 2004 From: Kpduties8 at aol.com (Kpduties8@aol.com) Date: Fri Jul 2 20:25:57 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 2, Issue 2 Message-ID: <86.fcd46c9.2e178140@aol.com> That is good to know. The small towns seem to run one right after another and it does get confusing. Thanks Kathy In a message dated 7/2/04 1:02:58 PM Mountain Daylight Time, rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com writes: Virgin is the little place you go through (on the way to ZION - no S!) after you have climbed up the "Twist" (the hill after you go up after after you leave the rock shop in LaVerkin) and gone across the flats for a few miles. It's where the road turns off that goes north up onto the Kolob Terrace (the way you go to get to Lava Point, for instance.) Margaret --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dguin at earthlink.net Sat Jul 3 06:39:59 2004 From: dguin at earthlink.net (Dave Guin) Date: Sat Jul 3 06:39:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] best educational website on pegmatites? In-Reply-To: <40E5030D.10200@earthlink.net> References: <40E0FC40.60407@earthlink.net> <4.3.1.0.20040701174120.00cf5c28@pop.megalink.net> <40E5030D.10200@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <40E6B72F.8050100@earthlink.net> Dave Guin wrote: > > I heartily agree with the above sources. If you can get to the > Pegmatite Workshop, you will NOT be disappointed. > Also see; > > http://pegmatite.com/default.htm > http://www.pegmatology.com/ P.S. Here is the current web page for the pegmatite workshop in Maine. http://homepage.mac.com/rasprague/PegShop/ Peace, dave From jlacey at fs.fed.us Fri Jul 2 12:35:09 2004 From: jlacey at fs.fed.us (Janel C Lacey) Date: Mon Jul 5 09:56:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Serpentine Message-ID: I have also been wondering about polishing serpentine. I have access to a large source of dark green material, however, I also know serpentine is closely related to asbestos and so am concerned about health risks of polishing. Has there been any response to Sarah's inquiry? From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Mon Jul 5 10:12:17 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Mon Jul 5 10:08:49 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Serpentine References: Message-ID: <001501c462b3$3a83ca00$a5a4490c@pete> I don't remember reading any Sarah's inquiry on this list about polishing serpentine (maybe it was one of those that "piggybacked" on an unrelated message title, one I may have deleted without reading). But my off-the-cuff answer would be that polishing serpentine is not likely to be harmful the way asbestos is, because the material does not have anywhere near the fibrous character of chrysotile asbestos. However, I'd assume the polishing would be done moist, with water present, rather than dry, and hence would not be likely to generate any amount of airborne dust. I think it would be inadvisable to do any significant amount of dry-sanding of serpentine, just to be on the safe side. Pete Modreski, Denver CO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janel C Lacey" To: Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 1:35 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Serpentine > > > > > I have also been wondering about polishing serpentine. I have access to a > large source of dark green material, however, I also know serpentine is > closely related to asbestos and so am concerned about health risks of > polishing. Has there been any response to Sarah's inquiry? > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From djodjolubende at hotmail.com Mon Jul 5 10:52:17 2004 From: djodjolubende at hotmail.com (serge djodjo lubende) Date: Mon Jul 5 10:52:19 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] contact Message-ID: FROM : Serge Djodjo LUBENDE BUNKA 232, avenue Lumumba Lubumbashi E-Mail : djodjolubende@hotmail.com FAX : +2432342754 DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO Dear sir, My name is serge djodjo lubende bunka. I?m a congolese from the democratic republic of congo.I?m staying in lubumbashi.I?m a small businessman. I cannot personnally afford to do big investment like iwant to do it. That?s why i write to you or your company or your organisation to introduce some kind of business or investment you can make in my country. I?m seeking peoples or companies or organisations who can invest or make business in minerals like : gold, diamond, coltan, cassiterite, copper, cobalt, germstones and many others Also in farming, foods, oil, petrol If you find that the domain in wich you can invest is not listed here please come back to me for more informations. I?m sorry if this message don?t interest you but i gonna ask you if you can send this message to another company or personn who can be interested with, especially to the chamber of commerce. I?m a citizen of this country, so i have opportunities to help you invest or find what you need in my country. I?m sure that investing or making business in my country is not wasting of time and it gonna gain you very well. I?m waiting to hear from you for any questions or queries. I?m a french speaking personn but my english is not very good. So if you don?t get some thing in, please come back to me as soon as you can. With respect and best regards. Serge Djodjo LUBENDE BUNKA. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Messenger : discutez en direct avec vos amis ! http://www.msn.fr/msger/default.asp From djodjolubende at hotmail.com Mon Jul 5 10:55:32 2004 From: djodjolubende at hotmail.com (serge djodjo lubende) Date: Mon Jul 5 10:55:33 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] contact Message-ID: FROM : Serge Djodjo LUBENDE BUNKA 232, avenue Lumumba Lubumbashi E-Mail : djodjolubende@hotmail.com FAX : +2432342754 DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO Dear sir, My name is serge djodjo lubende bunka. I?m a congolese from the democratic republic of congo.I?m staying in lubumbashi.I?m a small businessman. I cannot personnally afford to do big investment like iwant to do it. That?s why i write to you or your company or your organisation to introduce some kind of business or investment you can make in my country. I?m seeking peoples or companies or organisations who can invest or make business in minerals like : gold, diamond, coltan, cassiterite, copper, cobalt, germstones and many others Also in farming, foods, oil, petrol If you find that the domain in wich you can invest is not listed here please come back to me for more informations. I?m sorry if this message don?t interest you but i gonna ask you if you can send this message to another company or personn who can be interested with, especially to the chamber of commerce. I?m a citizen of this country, so i have opportunities to help you invest or find what you need in my country. I?m sure that investing or making business in my country is not wasting of time and it gonna gain you very well. I?m waiting to hear from you for any questions or queries. I?m a french speaking personn but my english is not very good. So if you don?t get some thing in, please come back to me as soon as you can. With respect and best regards. Serge Djodjo LUBENDE BUNKA. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Search, le moteur de recherche qui pense comme vous ! http://search.msn.fr/worldwide.asp From hbarwood at troyst.edu Mon Jul 5 11:02:57 2004 From: hbarwood at troyst.edu (Henry Barwood) Date: Mon Jul 5 11:04:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] contact In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A new form of Nigerian Scam? Henry Barwood -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of serge djodjo lubende Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 12:56 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] contact FROM : Serge Djodjo LUBENDE BUNKA 232, avenue Lumumba Lubumbashi E-Mail : djodjolubende@hotmail.com FAX : +2432342754 DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO Dear sir, My name is serge djodjo lubende bunka. I?m a congolese from the democratic republic of congo.I?m staying in lubumbashi.I?m a small businessman. I cannot personnally afford to do big investment like iwant to do it. That?s why i write to you or your company or your organisation to introduce some kind of business or investment you can make in my country. I?m seeking peoples or companies or organisations who can invest or make business in minerals like : gold, diamond, coltan, cassiterite, copper, cobalt, germstones and many others Also in farming, foods, oil, petrol If you find that the domain in wich you can invest is not listed here please come back to me for more informations. I?m sorry if this message don?t interest you but i gonna ask you if you can send this message to another company or personn who can be interested with, especially to the chamber of commerce. I?m a citizen of this country, so i have opportunities to help you invest or find what you need in my country. I?m sure that investing or making business in my country is not wasting of time and it gonna gain you very well. I?m waiting to hear from you for any questions or queries. I?m a french speaking personn but my english is not very good. So if you don?t get some thing in, please come back to me as soon as you can. With respect and best regards. Serge Djodjo LUBENDE BUNKA. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Search, le moteur de recherche qui pense comme vous ! http://search.msn.fr/worldwide.asp _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From erongo at mweb.co.za Mon Jul 5 11:17:19 2004 From: erongo at mweb.co.za (Willie Steyn) Date: Mon Jul 5 11:17:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] contact References: Message-ID: <001601c462bc$4f3fa000$91bd1fc4@Namibiaminerals> It is definitely a scam , had the fax number traced from South Africa and is non existent. Willie Steyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "serge djodjo lubende" To: Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 7:55 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] contact > > FROM : Serge Djodjo LUBENDE BUNKA > 232, avenue Lumumba > Lubumbashi > E-Mail : djodjolubende@hotmail.com > FAX : +2432342754 > DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO > > > > Dear sir, > My name is serge djodjo lubende bunka. I'm a congolese from the democratic > republic of congo.I'm staying in lubumbashi.I'm a small businessman. I > cannot personnally afford to do big investment like iwant to do it. > That's why i write to you or your company or your organisation to introduce > some kind of business or investment you can make in my country. I'm seeking > peoples or companies or organisations who can invest or make business in > minerals like : gold, diamond, coltan, cassiterite, copper, cobalt, > germstones and many others. > Also in farming, foods, oil, petrol. > If you find that the domain in wich you can invest is not listed here please > come back to me for more informations. > I'm sorry if this message don't interest you but i gonna ask you if you can > send this message to another company or personn who can be interested with, > especially to the chamber of commerce. > I'm a citizen of this country, so i have opportunities to help you invest or > find what you need in my country. > I'm sure that investing or making business in my country is not wasting of > time and it gonna gain you very well. > I'm waiting to hear from you for any questions or queries. > I'm a french speaking personn but my english is not very good. So if you > don't get some thing in, please come back to me as soon as you can. > > With respect and best regards. > > > Serge Djodjo LUBENDE BUNKA. > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Search, le moteur de recherche qui pense comme vous ! > http://search.msn.fr/worldwide.asp > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > -- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 7.0.230 / Virus Database: 263.3.10 - Release Date: 7/4/2004 From frankdewit at home.nl Mon Jul 5 11:19:24 2004 From: frankdewit at home.nl (Frank de Wit) Date: Mon Jul 5 11:19:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Serpentine References: Message-ID: <014301c462bc$9a111140$897ba8c0@cm333814lt> asbestos is 99% hype or FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt for americans among us ;-) ... and 1% fact just make it wet before you polish it and have fun... and do not breath in the fibres 30yrs long standing in dry clouds of it of more than 2.000 fibres per m3 air (you might just not notice the problem so fast... miners in canada were followed for 20 years not showing any form of longcancer, mesotheliom or asbestoses) when you want to polish so-called 'blue asbestos' as they call it in the removal-business (krokydolith/riebeckit ...) you're at (little) risc it's the most harmful although only 12% of the world production was krokydolith in asbestos products and than mostly in submarines; and we don't get in there so much unfortinately (a dutch shipyard had a lot of asbestos-patients/employees :-( the so-called brown asbestos (4%) (amosit/grunerit) also, but less harmful and the so-called white asbestos (chrysotil/serpentine) is even more less harmful (84%) although chrysotil asbestos makes the smallest xls (to 0.03 micrometer small), they are easily 'coughed out/breathed out' the krokydolith asbestos xls are usually bigger (to 0.1 micrometer) but less flexible, so they stick better in your longs too much people are making too much money on removing asbestos walking in white suits... (there's about 50 kilos of asbestos around in holland per dutch citizen in about 3.000 products you use or have used ;-) we breath about a 1.000 asbestos fibres every day and enjoy it to the fullest There were/are about 600-1000 deaths a year and 200-250 new patients a year with diseases possibly caused by the use of asbestos it's a fraction of the amount of people killed by (passive) smoking and driving a car though, so we should all drive a car in a white suit i think in 1984 about 40.000 people worked daily in overload clouds of asbestos... what was more dangerous: asbestos or George Orwell's nightmare Before i get flamed for writing this, i graduated on the subject with an 79-page paper and read a lot of technical scientific research papers before having the courage to write it up in the newspaper here on 20/6/96... If you think I write bull, can be... my dog just bit me in my right eye, it's bleeding and I'm writing this with one eye closed... asbestos is a nice topic to have a discussion about; so do scientists all the time I love asbestos formed minerals, they're beautiful ! i have some nice prehnite on aktinolith asbestos MM's here from the Binntal I will photograph this week the real expert on this subject though is Ernst Burke of the Amsterdam university; perhaps he reads this and can write you a good advice. or there must be someone from Asbestos/Canada on the list :-) hojje! frank ps: beware of glass wool / mineral wool / ceramic fibres ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janel C Lacey" To: Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 9:35 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Serpentine > I have also been wondering about polishing serpentine. I have access to a > large source of dark green material, however, I also know serpentine is > closely related to asbestos and so am concerned about health risks of > polishing. Has there been any response to Sarah's inquiry? > From afox at drizzle.com Mon Jul 5 11:44:17 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Mon Jul 5 11:44:19 2004 Subject: [ADMIN] [Rockhounds] contact In-Reply-To: <001601c462bc$4f3fa000$91bd1fc4@Namibiaminerals> Message-ID: The offending user has been unsubscribed and banned from resubscribing to the list. Plonk! Sorry, y'all. There's not much I can do when they actually sign up for the list; we catch most forged spam, but when it's an authorized user, I can't stop content without going to full moderation. And I don't think anybody wants that.... Aaron, who's wishing he'd drank less British beer last night (ugh, too many black and tans) Rockhounds Admin On Mon, 5 Jul 2004, Willie Steyn wrote: > It is definitely a scam , had the fax number traced from South Africa and is > non existent. > Willie Steyn > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "serge djodjo lubende" > To: > Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 7:55 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] contact > > > > > > FROM : Serge Djodjo LUBENDE BUNKA > > 232, avenue Lumumba > > Lubumbashi > > E-Mail : djodjolubende@hotmail.com > > FAX : +2432342754 > > DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO > > > > > > > > Dear sir, > > My name is serge djodjo lubende bunka. I'm a congolese from the democratic > > republic of congo.I'm staying in lubumbashi.I'm a small businessman. I > > cannot personnally afford to do big investment like iwant to do it. > > That's why i write to you or your company or your organisation to > introduce > > some kind of business or investment you can make in my country. I'm > seeking > > peoples or companies or organisations who can invest or make business in > > minerals like : gold, diamond, coltan, cassiterite, copper, cobalt, > > germstones and many others. > > Also in farming, foods, oil, petrol. > > If you find that the domain in wich you can invest is not listed here > please > > come back to me for more informations. > > I'm sorry if this message don't interest you but i gonna ask you if you > can > > send this message to another company or personn who can be interested > with, > > especially to the chamber of commerce. > > I'm a citizen of this country, so i have opportunities to help you invest > or > > find what you need in my country. > > I'm sure that investing or making business in my country is not wasting of > > time and it gonna gain you very well. > > I'm waiting to hear from you for any questions or queries. > > I'm a french speaking personn but my english is not very good. So if you > > don't get some thing in, please come back to me as soon as you can. > > > > With respect and best regards. > > > > > > Serge Djodjo LUBENDE BUNKA. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > MSN Search, le moteur de recherche qui pense comme vous ! > > http://search.msn.fr/worldwide.asp > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox Highway Patrolman: "Sir, do you know how fast you were going?" Heisenberg: "No, but I know EXACTLY where I was!" From frankdewit at home.nl Mon Jul 5 11:51:25 2004 From: frankdewit at home.nl (Frank de Wit) Date: Mon Jul 5 11:51:30 2004 Subject: [ADMIN] [Rockhounds] contact References: Message-ID: <016701c462c1$12c33650$897ba8c0@cm333814lt> drink Guiness more fun, less headache :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Fox" To: "Rockhounds mailing list" Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 8:44 PM Subject: [ADMIN] [Rockhounds] contact > The offending user has been unsubscribed and banned from resubscribing to > the list. Plonk! > > Sorry, y'all. There's not much I can do when they actually sign up for the > list; we catch most forged spam, but when it's an authorized user, I can't > stop content without going to full moderation. And I don't think anybody > wants that.... > > Aaron, who's wishing he'd drank less British beer last night (ugh, too > many black and tans) > Rockhounds Admin > > > > On Mon, 5 Jul 2004, Willie Steyn wrote: > > > It is definitely a scam , had the fax number traced from South Africa and is > > non existent. > > Willie Steyn > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "serge djodjo lubende" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 7:55 PM > > Subject: [Rockhounds] contact > > > > > > > > > > FROM : Serge Djodjo LUBENDE BUNKA > > > 232, avenue Lumumba > > > Lubumbashi > > > E-Mail : djodjolubende@hotmail.com > > > FAX : +2432342754 > > > DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear sir, > > > My name is serge djodjo lubende bunka. I'm a congolese from the democratic > > > republic of congo.I'm staying in lubumbashi.I'm a small businessman. I > > > cannot personnally afford to do big investment like iwant to do it. > > > That's why i write to you or your company or your organisation to > > introduce > > > some kind of business or investment you can make in my country. I'm > > seeking > > > peoples or companies or organisations who can invest or make business in > > > minerals like : gold, diamond, coltan, cassiterite, copper, cobalt, > > > germstones and many others. > > > Also in farming, foods, oil, petrol. > > > If you find that the domain in wich you can invest is not listed here > > please > > > come back to me for more informations. > > > I'm sorry if this message don't interest you but i gonna ask you if you > > can > > > send this message to another company or personn who can be interested > > with, > > > especially to the chamber of commerce. > > > I'm a citizen of this country, so i have opportunities to help you invest > > or > > > find what you need in my country. > > > I'm sure that investing or making business in my country is not wasting of > > > time and it gonna gain you very well. > > > I'm waiting to hear from you for any questions or queries. > > > I'm a french speaking personn but my english is not very good. So if you > > > don't get some thing in, please come back to me as soon as you can. > > > > > > With respect and best regards. > > > > > > > > > Serge Djodjo LUBENDE BUNKA. > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > MSN Search, le moteur de recherche qui pense comme vous ! > > > http://search.msn.fr/worldwide.asp > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox > Highway Patrolman: "Sir, do you know how fast you were going?" > Heisenberg: "No, but I know EXACTLY where I was!" > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at aloha.net Mon Jul 5 12:34:45 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Jul 5 12:08:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Aaron & beer In-Reply-To: References: <001601c462bc$4f3fa000$91bd1fc4@Namibiaminerals> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040705092506.02c4b2a0@mail.aloha.net> So, Aaron, are you in England? How is your knee after surgery? Aloha, Kitty At 08:44 AM 7/5/2004, you wrote: > Aaron, who's wishing he'd drank less British beer last night >(ugh, too >many black and tans) >Rockhounds Admin From afox at drizzle.com Mon Jul 5 12:16:20 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Mon Jul 5 12:16:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Aaron & beer In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20040705092506.02c4b2a0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: Heh. No, I just felt like being a bit of a Tory last night. And technically, it was Irish beer, not British. Black & Tans. Mmmm. Note to all: Typing before the first cup of coffee is completed is *not* a good idea....:-) Knee is doing extremely well. Good ROM, strength coming back. It's still a bit weak, and it's going to be another couple of months before raquetball is an option again. However, it's holding up well to six 10-hour days a week in the field. Brace is off except for strenous exercise. a. > So, Aaron, are you in England? How is your knee after surgery? > > Aloha, Kitty > -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox Highway Patrolman: "Sir, do you know how fast you were going?" Heisenberg: "No, but I know EXACTLY where I was!" From magnet at crocoite.com Mon Jul 5 19:22:44 2004 From: magnet at crocoite.com (magnet) Date: Mon Jul 5 19:21:30 2004 Subject: [ADMIN] [Rockhounds] contact Message-ID: <20040706022244.2170.qmail@webmachine101.com> I personally liked the term "germstones"! Regards Steve > > > minerals like : gold, diamond, coltan, cassiterite, copper, cobalt, > > > germstones and many others. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at aloha.net Mon Jul 5 22:57:16 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Jul 5 22:31:25 2004 Subject: [ADMIN] [Rockhounds] contact In-Reply-To: <20040706022244.2170.qmail@webmachine101.com> References: <20040706022244.2170.qmail@webmachine101.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040705193918.025813d0@mail.aloha.net> Yep. Those germstones are the ones than infect certain types of people and cause a disease called "rockhounditis," which can be seen in a tendency to look down at the ground, to keep a rock hammer and collecting bag handy, to pull over at roadcuts, to surreptitiously frequent rockshops ...(add your own symptoms). Aloha, Kitty At 04:22 PM 7/5/2004, you wrote: >I personally liked the term "germstones"! > >Regards >Steve > > > > > minerals like : gold, diamond, coltan, cassiterite, copper, cobalt, > > > > germstones and many others. > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Mon Jul 5 23:43:07 2004 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Mon Jul 5 23:51:15 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Serpentine References: Message-ID: <000b01c46325$a2ae7ae0$a44227c4@privatehome> Hi there, In the early seventies, I polished quite a few serpentine cabochons. Obviously you have to grind and polish wet. For polishing I used cerium oxide, I suppose tin oxide would do just as well. However, the material does not take on a very high polish. The material we found on an asbestos mine (still in production at that time) was various shades of green, brown, grey and black. Regards, Horst ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janel C Lacey" To: Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 9:35 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Serpentine > > > > > I have also been wondering about polishing serpentine. I have access to a > large source of dark green material, however, I also know serpentine is > closely related to asbestos and so am concerned about health risks of > polishing. Has there been any response to Sarah's inquiry? > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Tue Jul 6 00:01:24 2004 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Tue Jul 6 00:07:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] contact References: Message-ID: <000401c46327$f42ab350$2f4027c4@privatehome> Hi everybody, I receive at least one to three of these scams per day on a regular basis. Of course these are all scams, and I just delete them. In earlier days I used to forward them to the South African police, but their e-mail address at one stage was no longer correct. Some of these apparently even emanate from highly placed individuals working in the South African government. Upon closer investigation, these persons were not even aware that their credentials were being misused! My advice isjust ignore and delete such messages. DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING THAT SOUNDS TO BE TOO GREAT TO BE TRUE. Regards. Horst---- Original Message ----- From: "Henry Barwood" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 8:02 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] contact > A new form of Nigerian Scam? > > Henry Barwood > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of serge djodjo > lubende > Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 12:56 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] contact > > > > FROM : Serge Djodjo LUBENDE BUNKA > 232, avenue Lumumba > Lubumbashi > E-Mail : djodjolubende@hotmail.com > FAX : +2432342754 > DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO > > > > Dear sir, > My name is serge djodjo lubende bunka. I'm a congolese from the democratic > republic of congo.I'm staying in lubumbashi.I'm a small businessman. I > cannot personnally afford to do big investment like iwant to do it. > That's why i write to you or your company or your organisation to introduce > some kind of business or investment you can make in my country. I'm seeking > peoples or companies or organisations who can invest or make business in > minerals like : gold, diamond, coltan, cassiterite, copper, cobalt, > germstones and many others. > Also in farming, foods, oil, petrol. > If you find that the domain in wich you can invest is not listed here please > come back to me for more informations. > I'm sorry if this message don't interest you but i gonna ask you if you can > send this message to another company or personn who can be interested with, > especially to the chamber of commerce. > I'm a citizen of this country, so i have opportunities to help you invest or > find what you need in my country. > I'm sure that investing or making business in my country is not wasting of > time and it gonna gain you very well. > I'm waiting to hear from you for any questions or queries. > I'm a french speaking personn but my english is not very good. So if you > don't get some thing in, please come back to me as soon as you can. > > With respect and best regards. > > > Serge Djodjo LUBENDE BUNKA. > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Search, le moteur de recherche qui pense comme vous ! > http://search.msn.fr/worldwide.asp > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From kadok at infowest.com Tue Jul 6 07:37:44 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Tue Jul 6 07:38:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] contact In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040706143738.46F94EAAC46@delivery.infowest.com> HEY! How did this scam get through? (Two copies, in fact)? Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of serge djodjo lubende Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 10:56 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] contact FROM : Serge Djodjo LUBENDE BUNKA 232, avenue Lumumba Lubumbashi E-Mail : djodjolubende@hotmail.com FAX : +2432342754 DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO Dear sir, My name is serge djodjo lubende bunka. I'm a congolese from the democratic republic of congo.I'm staying in lubumbashi.I'm a small businessman. I cannot personnally afford to do big investment like iwant to do it. That's why i write to you or your company or your organisation to introduce some kind of business or investment you can make in my country. I'm seeking peoples or companies or organisations who can invest or make business in minerals like : gold, diamond, coltan, cassiterite, copper, cobalt, germstones and many others. Also in farming, foods, oil, petrol. If you find that the domain in wich you can invest is not listed here please come back to me for more informations. I'm sorry if this message don't interest you but i gonna ask you if you can send this message to another company or personn who can be interested with, especially to the chamber of commerce. I'm a citizen of this country, so i have opportunities to help you invest or find what you need in my country. I'm sure that investing or making business in my country is not wasting of time and it gonna gain you very well. I'm waiting to hear from you for any questions or queries. I'm a french speaking personn but my english is not very good. So if you don't get some thing in, please come back to me as soon as you can. With respect and best regards. Serge Djodjo LUBENDE BUNKA. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Search, le moteur de recherche qui pense comme vous ! http://search.msn.fr/worldwide.asp _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From erongo at mweb.co.za Tue Jul 6 08:59:06 2004 From: erongo at mweb.co.za (Willie Steyn) Date: Tue Jul 6 08:59:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Manganese Minerals References: <14397405.1088626313836.JavaMail.uportal@KIL-UPT-1.UCIS.Dal.Ca> Message-ID: <002401c46372$2aefd9c0$08bf1fc4@Namibiaminerals> Hi Ronnie Prof. Bruce Caincross from South Africa has written a book called the "Manganese Adventure" it deals with the Kalahari manganese fields in South Africa.(N`Chwaning ,Bultfontein) I`m sure all your questions will be answered in this book , absolutely brilliant and a must if only for the photos of the different specimens. If you are interested you could contact Bruce at bc@na.rau.ac.za and order it from him. Willie Steyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ronnie F Van Dommelen" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 10:11 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Manganese Minerals > Hi All, > > Hope the collecting season has been good to everyone so far. > > Does anyone know of papers or books that discuss the manganese minerals (ex. manganite, pyrolusite, hausmannite, ramsdellite, groutite). In particular I would be interested in ways to identify these minerals. Also crystallography (especially of pyrolusite) or other info would be useful. > > Thanks in advance. > > Happy Collecting, > Ronnie Van Dommelen > Nova Scotia, Canada > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 7.0.230 / Virus Database: 263.3.10 - Release Date: 7/4/2004 From mmessenger at nwifc.org Tue Jul 6 09:56:50 2004 From: mmessenger at nwifc.org (Mike Messenger) Date: Tue Jul 6 10:00:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Show Announcement Message-ID: WASHINGTON AGATE & MINERAL SOCIETY OF OLYMPIA AND THE TENINO ROCK CRUISERS HUGE ! 2004 Rock & Gem Rendezvous During Tenino Oregon Trail Days Parkside Elementary School, Central Ave. E. Tenino, Washington Saturday, July 24 -- 10 a.m. - 6 p.m. Sunday, July 25 -- 10 a.m. - 5 p.m. Featuring: Demonstrations Silent Auction Activities for Kids Dealer Booths Snack Bar FREE ADMISSION Visit our web page at http://home.comcast.net/~wams1939 DIRECTIONS: TO REACH TENINO FROM I-5 (NORTHBOUND OR TAKE EXIT 88 AND GO EAST APPROX. 8 MILES. GO INTO TOWN AND TURN RIGHT ON STAGE ST SOUTH, GO ONE BLOCK; THE SCHOOL IS ON THE LEFT. WE ARE DIRECTLY ACROSS FROM THE CITY PARK WHERE THE OREGON TRAIL DAYS EVENT IS PUT ON. Mike Messenger Washngton agate and Mineral Society Email: wams1939@comcast.net WWW: http://home.comcast.net/~wams1939/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Tue Jul 6 13:31:01 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Jul 6 15:42:50 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Aaron & beer In-Reply-To: References: <6.1.2.0.0.20040705092506.02c4b2a0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.2.20040706133012.01e8e8d8@mail.spiritone.com> Even more technically it's Irish over British beer, Aaron. It used to signal that you were a member of the IRA in Irish pubs :) At 12:16 PM 7/5/2004, you wrote: >Heh. No, I just felt like being a bit of a Tory last night. And >technically, it was Irish beer, not British. Black & Tans. Mmmm. > >Note to all: Typing before the first cup of coffee is completed is *not* a >good idea....:-) > >Knee is doing extremely well. Good ROM, strength coming back. It's still >a bit weak, and it's going to be another couple of months before >raquetball is an option again. However, it's holding up well to six >10-hour days a week in the field. Brace is off except for strenous >exercise. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From BETDAV97 at aol.com Tue Jul 6 18:31:34 2004 From: BETDAV97 at aol.com (BETDAV97@aol.com) Date: Tue Jul 6 18:31:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] meteorite sightings? Message-ID: <1e3.248b6f24.2e1cac76@aol.com> Hi all, Has anyone west of WVa, say over Ohio or further west, reported any fireballs or meteorites at sunset this evening? The fire ball was reported as crossing the sun with a long tail. Thanks, Dave --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From BETDAV97 at aol.com Tue Jul 6 20:37:35 2004 From: BETDAV97 at aol.com (BETDAV97@aol.com) Date: Tue Jul 6 20:37:41 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] meteorite sightings? Message-ID: <1cb.25468fd7.2e1cc9ff@aol.com> Hi again, I'll answer my own mail; the weatherman on the 11 o'clock news explained it as a cloud phenomena due to the front coming in from the west and the angle of the evening sun. I didn't see the event myself, I was just relating info from a phone call, I received, and promised to inquire about it. Depending upon where you viewed it had a lot to do with seeing the proper angle. Meteorite hunters don't get your hopes up. Have a good day, Dave --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From MCGINNISG at aol.com Tue Jul 6 21:16:39 2004 From: MCGINNISG at aol.com (MCGINNISG@aol.com) Date: Tue Jul 6 21:16:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chandler Mountain Message-ID: <12e.45c32e94.2e1cd327@aol.com> Does anyone have the directions to the carnelian agate and petrified wood collecting areas on Chandler Mountain, Oregon? Thank you T. McGinnis --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From MCGINNISG at aol.com Tue Jul 6 21:21:59 2004 From: MCGINNISG at aol.com (MCGINNISG@aol.com) Date: Tue Jul 6 21:22:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Incline Village California Smoky Quartz Message-ID: Does anyone have directions to the smoky quartz and feldspar collecting area near Incline Village, California (North of Lake Tahoe)? Thank you T. McGinnis --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john.f.alcorn at gte.net Tue Jul 6 21:45:49 2004 From: john.f.alcorn at gte.net (John Alcorn) Date: Tue Jul 6 21:47:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chandler Mountain References: <12e.45c32e94.2e1cd327@aol.com> Message-ID: <002001c463dd$47319310$b4c80304@ROSENANTE> Tim Fisher sells a cd that some friends of mine found helpful on their trip in Oregon. Perhaps Chandler Mountain is on it. See http://OreRocOn.com. ja. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 9:16 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Chandler Mountain > Does anyone have the directions to the carnelian agate and petrified wood > collecting areas on Chandler Mountain, Oregon? > > Thank you > > T. McGinnis > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From tim at orerockon.com Wed Jul 7 07:21:44 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Jul 7 07:21:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chandler Mountain In-Reply-To: <002001c463dd$47319310$b4c80304@ROSENANTE> References: <12e.45c32e94.2e1cd327@aol.com> <002001c463dd$47319310$b4c80304@ROSENANTE> Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.2.20040707072027.01e7b358@mail.spiritone.com> Nope, just Brown's Mtn. AFAIK Chandler Mtn. is 100% private and while there are a few attempts every year to gain access I have never heard of anyone doing so... At 09:45 PM 7/6/2004, you wrote: >Tim Fisher sells a cd that some friends of mine found helpful on their trip >in Oregon. Perhaps Chandler Mountain is on it. >See http://OreRocOn.com. >ja. >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 9:16 PM >Subject: [Rockhounds] Chandler Mountain > > > > Does anyone have the directions to the carnelian agate and petrified wood > > collecting areas on Chandler Mountain, Oregon? > > > > Thank you > > > > T. McGinnis Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From kriswmurray1 at mac.com Wed Jul 7 09:44:19 2004 From: kriswmurray1 at mac.com (Kris Murray) Date: Wed Jul 7 09:44:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Aaron & beer In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.2.20040706133012.01e8e8d8@mail.spiritone.com> References: <6.1.2.0.0.20040705092506.02c4b2a0@mail.aloha.net> <6.1.1.1.2.20040706133012.01e8e8d8@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: THATS A COOL BEER FACT Thanks ~KM -- Deviants are sacrificed to increase group solidarity --- On Jul 6, 2004, at 1:31 PM, Tim Fisher wrote: > Even more technically it's Irish over British beer, Aaron. It used to > signal that you were a member of the IRA in Irish pubs :) From frankdewit at home.nl Wed Jul 7 15:06:34 2004 From: frankdewit at home.nl (Frank de Wit) Date: Wed Jul 7 15:06:41 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Serpentine Message-ID: <008401c4646e$aab38b50$897ba8c0@cm333814lt> > I love asbestos formed minerals, they're beautiful ! > i have some nice prehnite on aktinolith asbestos MM's here from the Binntal > I will photograph this week there are the first 3 http://www.mindat.org/gallery.php?min=3277&loc=29339 > hojje! frank From tim at orerockon.com Wed Jul 7 15:41:24 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Jul 7 15:41:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New page on Kemmerer WY fish fossil digging In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.2.20040707072027.01e7b358@mail.spiritone.com> References: <12e.45c32e94.2e1cd327@aol.com> <002001c463dd$47319310$b4c80304@ROSENANTE> <6.1.1.1.2.20040707072027.01e7b358@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.2.20040707153941.02aa03a0@mail.spiritone.com> I got tired of looking all over the net for info on Green River formation fish fossil digging at Kemmerer WY so I wrote my own page. Check it out at http://orerockon.com/ore_rock.htm Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From davisj at earthlink.net Wed Jul 7 16:20:12 2004 From: davisj at earthlink.net (Joe Davis) Date: Wed Jul 7 16:20:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Where to collect? In-Reply-To: <40E4E9E2.70402@tenforward.com> Message-ID: The WSMC also has many field trips which will put you in areas where there is something to collect and will be lead by a knowledgeable person Joe --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) message/rfc822 --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jul 7 19:34:07 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jul 7 19:31:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hawaii Reminder/Update Message-ID: <40ECB1E5.773A@Tomaszewski.net> On July 7 ... 1898 - The United States annexed Hawaii. Today the volcano eruptions resemble yesterday. . . But Madam Pele put on a nice show on the 4th as captured at http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/main.html From Docia1154 at aol.com Thu Jul 8 03:59:36 2004 From: Docia1154 at aol.com (Docia1154@aol.com) Date: Thu Jul 8 03:59:42 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Missouri Message-ID: I've recently relocated to Salem, Missouri (about 25 miles south of Rolla, which is approximately halfway between St. Louis & Springfield) and would love to hear from anyone who has information on the area. I'm hopefully going to Hamilton, IL this weekend to collect Keokuk geodes so any input on that area would be appreciated also. Thanks, Docia --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Sagebrushhome at aol.com Thu Jul 8 05:23:37 2004 From: Sagebrushhome at aol.com (Sagebrushhome@aol.com) Date: Thu Jul 8 05:23:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Missouri Message-ID: <60.4118cb0d.2e1e96c9@aol.com> The Sheffler Rock Shop near Wayland Missouri has a fee area that occasionally produces geodes with nice sphalerite crystals. Their phone number is 660-754-6443. The shop and dig site is several miles south of Wayland on Rt.61. Good luck. Rex --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From yyilmaz at uekae.tubitak.gov.tr Thu Jul 8 12:59:39 2004 From: yyilmaz at uekae.tubitak.gov.tr (Yasin Yilmaz) Date: Thu Jul 8 07:08:42 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: Polishing chalcedonies] Message-ID: <40EDA7AB.2050902@uekae.tubitak.gov.tr> Hello, I am very new at rock hounding. Last weak, I friend of me has taken me to my-first-Rockhounding-trip! It was great, we collect some ametist-containing rocks from sea shore (A little river joins the sea nearby. We have collected some amethysts just inside the river, also) Then, a lot of chalcedony from a dom construction area below 9-10 meters below the ground level. (by the way, I am writing from Turkey/Istanbul/Yalova + A nice place famous with hot water springs ) The chacledonies are very pale blue, some with quarts crystals in their inner cavities. A few rocks are quite big (at least for me:), more than 6-7 kg. My problems are: The amethysts from the sea shore are included in a white structure (my friend said its kind of quarts) but very rounded by the sea(or by the river). They are far from shining... When I broke some of them, amethsts in the rock are more visible but it is still hard to convince my wife not to throw away my collection :) Is there a way to polish my rocks (or make them at least shine a little more :) without buying those lapidary equipments? (I have spend hours cleaning my chalcedony with a toothbrush and soap (plus some dish washing detergents to remove dirts on the rocks). It worked very well for the chalcedonies which have a already shiny quarts crystals inside. But the amethysts are still very dim. May I use varnish (is it the right word?, a kind of chemical to shine/polish wood or any other things...) on some parts of the rocks, especially for ametists. Or is there any other method for polishing rocks by hand-work only. Yasin Yilmaz From folmstead at rcn.com Thu Jul 8 09:02:25 2004 From: folmstead at rcn.com (Fred Olmstead) Date: Thu Jul 8 08:47:19 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collection locations on Trip Message-ID: <40ED7011.2080600@rcn.com> For a trip to Sand Fest 2004, I will be traveling from Arlington, Virginia, to the Sand Dunes area of Indiana, and returning via Cincinnati, Ohio. The route generally will be I-270 to I -70 (in Maryland), proceeding west to I-68, through MD, WVA, and into Ohio, returning to I-70, and continuing west into Indiana. Prior to reaching Indianapolis, we will turn north (not yet sure of routing), to proceed to Sand Dunes area. The return will take us from Sand Dunes to Cincinnati, and return from Cincinnati to Arlington, probably via US 50. Can anyone suggest good collecting sites not too far off the route sketched out above? Would they be public or private lands? Are there any difficulties regarding access? Many thanks for any help. G. Olmstead From xossfs at yahoo.com Thu Jul 8 09:19:33 2004 From: xossfs at yahoo.com (Stephen Stover) Date: Thu Jul 8 09:19:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: Polishing chalcedonies] In-Reply-To: <40EDA7AB.2050902@uekae.tubitak.gov.tr> Message-ID: <20040708161933.33553.qmail@web20024.mail.yahoo.com> Eposxy resin is a shepa way to shine flat rocks and reasonablebly permanent. One way is a piece of canvsas on polishing grit. Ir you can get some greit just sit and watch tv and rub your stone. Use three different grits 120, 400, 800 and titainium oxide as a polishing grit. Use three different canvases for the grits and velvet for the polish. Over time you will put a permaneent polish on those babies --- Yasin Yilmaz wrote: > > Hello, > > I am very new at rock hounding. Last weak, I friend > of me has taken me > to my-first-Rockhounding-trip! It was great, we > collect some > ametist-containing rocks from sea shore (A little > river joins the sea > nearby. We have collected some amethysts just inside > the river, also) > > Then, a lot of chalcedony from a dom construction > area below 9-10 meters > below the ground level. (by the way, I am writing > from > Turkey/Istanbul/Yalova + A nice place famous with > hot water springs ) > The chacledonies are very pale blue, some with > quarts crystals in their > inner cavities. A few rocks are quite big (at least > for me:), more than > 6-7 kg. > > My problems are: > The amethysts from the sea shore are included in a > white structure (my > friend said its kind of quarts) but very rounded by > the sea(or by the > river). They are far from shining... When I broke > some of them, amethsts > in the rock are more visible but it is still hard to > convince my wife > not to throw away my collection :) > > Is there a way to polish my rocks (or make them at > least shine a little > more :) without buying those lapidary equipments? (I > have spend hours > cleaning my chalcedony with a toothbrush and soap > (plus some dish > washing detergents to remove dirts on the rocks). It > worked very well > for the chalcedonies which have a already shiny > quarts crystals inside. > But the amethysts are still very dim. > > May I use varnish (is it the right word?, a kind of > chemical to > shine/polish wood or any other things...) on some > parts of the > rocks, especially for ametists. Or is there any > other method for > polishing rocks by hand-work only. > > > Yasin Yilmaz > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > ===== Stephen F. Stover PH (281) 829-1102 xossfs@yahoo.com Wanting to hunt rocks and play games every day! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From kahako at aloha.net Thu Jul 8 10:22:18 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Jul 8 09:56:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hawaii Reminder/Update In-Reply-To: <40ECB1E5.773A@Tomaszewski.net> References: <40ECB1E5.773A@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040708071859.04b111a0@mail.aloha.net> The following photo was actually taken on July 2nd, but it makes a good Independence Day picture. You may have to paste to make the URL wrap. http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/archive/2004/Jul/20040702-3683_DAS_large.jpg Aloha, Kitty At 04:34 PM 7/7/2004, you wrote: >On July 7 ... >1898 - The United States annexed Hawaii. > >Today the volcano eruptions resemble yesterday. . . > >But Madam Pele put on a nice show on the 4th as captured at > > http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/main.html > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Thu Jul 8 10:03:42 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Jul 8 10:00:42 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collecting: Fresno In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200407081700.i68H0e3G016424@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Hi all... I'm heading out to Fresno, CA next month. Usual suggestions are welcome. Gary Brown Catspaw Minerals http://www.catspaw-minerals.com Home of MasMils/PLUS Mine Location Disk From nmartin at bbn.com Thu Jul 8 11:19:57 2004 From: nmartin at bbn.com (Nathan C. Martin II) Date: Thu Jul 8 11:20:06 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collecting: Fresno In-Reply-To: <200407081700.i68H0e3G016424@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20040708135455.01e2fb20@po2.bbn.com> Gary, If you will have a 4WD vehicle and a full day to spend you might consider driving west to the Clear Creek area administered by the BLM in San Benito County, CA.. - basically a huge serpentine deposit with lots of old mercury and asbestos mines, plus melanite and other various colors of andradite garnet, magnetite, artinite and if you get lucky perovskite. The benitoite mine is off limits but I can give you directions to the perovskite knob. This is rough and rugged country and you need to be prepared to drive through a few stream beds but it is usually quite manageable. Even if you did no collecting at all it is a lot of fun just driving around. There are overachieving species of pine trees there that produce pine cones about 1 ft long and 8" in diameter. The last time I was there on the way out I got stuck behind a small herd of free range cattle that were running along the road at about 7 mph - it took about 5 miles before they decided to head off into the brush and let me continue at a faster place. Neat place! This is my second favorite collecting spot in the USA (V.A.G. Quarry at Lowell/Eden Mills, VT is number 1). Let me know if you would like explicit info. Nate Martin Lexington, MA P.S. - coming in from the west through the deserted mining town of New Idria you will pass signs for the Whimsey Mining Company that claims to give a libertarian discount. I have never stopped but that too might be an adventure At 01:03 PM 7/8/2004, you wrote: >Hi all... I'm heading out to Fresno, CA next month. Usual suggestions are >welcome. > >Gary Brown >Catspaw Minerals >http://www.catspaw-minerals.com >Home of MasMils/PLUS Mine Location Disk > _______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Dr. Nathan C. Martin Principal Scientist BBN Technologies Room 1/117, 10 Moulton Street, Cambridge, MA 02138 Phone: (617)873-3495 Office FAX: (617)873-2918 From sauktown at adsnet.com Thu Jul 8 11:34:08 2004 From: sauktown at adsnet.com (Jim Daly) Date: Thu Jul 8 11:42:49 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collection locations on Trip References: <40ED7011.2080600@rcn.com> Message-ID: <001501c4651a$286fff00$625204d0@jim> Most collecting in Indiana is fossils. The dam at Brookville is good, and most road cuts in the Cincy area. The only accessible mineral collecting area I can think of is a road cut on Rt. 37 south of Bloomington, near Harrodsburg. Geodes, some with millerite have been found. I've also heard that some interesting things have been found on the beaches in the Benton Harbor, MI area. That's only a few miles from the eastern end of the dunes. When will you be making the trip? I live near the dunes. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales Microminerals and mounting supplies http://www.sauktown.com sauktown@adsnet.com or orders@sauktown.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Olmstead" To: Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 11:02 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Collection locations on Trip > For a trip to Sand Fest 2004, I will be traveling from Arlington, > Virginia, to the Sand Dunes area of Indiana, and returning via > Cincinnati, Ohio. The route generally will be I-270 to I -70 (in > Maryland), proceeding west to I-68, through MD, WVA, and into Ohio, > returning to I-70, and continuing west into Indiana. Prior to reaching > Indianapolis, we will turn north (not yet sure of routing), to proceed > to Sand Dunes area. > > The return will take us from Sand Dunes to Cincinnati, and return from > Cincinnati to Arlington, probably via US 50. > > Can anyone suggest good collecting sites not too far off the route > sketched out above? Would they be public or private lands? Are there > any difficulties regarding access? > > Many thanks for any help. > > G. Olmstead > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From mike at colellaphoto.com Thu Jul 8 13:12:19 2004 From: mike at colellaphoto.com (Mike@colellaphoto.com) Date: Thu Jul 8 13:09:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collection locations on Trip In-Reply-To: <40ED7011.2080600@rcn.com> Message-ID: Georgia, just saw your note, bring me back some Indiana sand dune because I won't be able to attend. I just cancelled my hotel last week. A long standing job I've done for the last 18 years changed its dates to conflict with the Sandfest. Have a great time. Mike Michael J. Colella Colella Photography 2806 Jennings Rd. Kensington, MD 20895 Studio 301-942-2853 Cell 301-520-9195 Mail: mike@colellaphoto.com Web: http://colellaphoto.com From Lapadary at aol.com Thu Jul 8 13:20:30 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Thu Jul 8 13:20:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collecting: Fresno Message-ID: In a message dated 7/8/04 10:00:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time, gbrown@catspaw-minerals.com writes: ... I'm heading out to Fresno, CA next month. Usual suggestions are welcome. Gary Brown Gary, I think anybody who comes to that part of CA should try panning for gold. Finding a spot where you can do itwithout being on a claim might be the hard part. There are places that are open for panning but you would need to ask locally. The California Gem and Mineral Museum is in Mariposa, one of the old mining towns in the Mother Lode. I think that is about 70 miles north east of Fresno. Mariposite, a beautiful green ore that is abundant in that area. I've sen it sold for l.apidary use but never worked any. There are one or two rockshops in the Mariposa area that could tell you what areas are productive for collecting -- but I'm not able to name them. (I've had good luck asking at rockshops because I usually let them know I'm just passing through and may not ever come back again.) The last time I was in Mariposa a small shop was selling scuba gear and gold dredges -- so they could probably give you an idea of where to look. Offering to buy a gold pan from them might help you get directions. Grant Johnston, Chico, CA --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From shm at tapnet.net Fri Jul 9 06:29:54 2004 From: shm at tapnet.net (SHM) Date: Fri Jul 9 06:30:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: Polishing chalcedonies] In-Reply-To: <40EDA7AB.2050902@uekae.tubitak.gov.tr> Message-ID: <000101c465b8$f1f946d0$c2e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Hello Yasim, If you have no equipment or abrasives to polish the amethyst specimens you collected, a spray-on acrylic coating would probably do. First, a question: if you immerse your amethyst specimens in water, do they look the way you want them to? If so, a similar effect can be achieved with an acrylic spray. It's been more than 20 years since I've used these, so there are probably better products on the market now, but for smooth and unpolished rock surfaces the sprays worked quite well. Most of them are removable in the appropriate solvents, so the specimens can be polished at a later date, if you wish. Cheers- Earl Verbeek -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Yasin Yilmaz Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 4:00 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: Polishing chalcedonies] Hello, I am very new at rock hounding. Last weak, I friend of me has taken me to my-first-Rockhounding-trip! It was great, we collect some ametist-containing rocks from sea shore (A little river joins the sea nearby. We have collected some amethysts just inside the river, also) Then, a lot of chalcedony from a dom construction area below 9-10 meters below the ground level. (by the way, I am writing from Turkey/Istanbul/Yalova + A nice place famous with hot water springs ) The chacledonies are very pale blue, some with quarts crystals in their inner cavities. A few rocks are quite big (at least for me:), more than 6-7 kg. My problems are: The amethysts from the sea shore are included in a white structure (my friend said its kind of quarts) but very rounded by the sea(or by the river). They are far from shining... When I broke some of them, amethsts in the rock are more visible but it is still hard to convince my wife not to throw away my collection :) Is there a way to polish my rocks (or make them at least shine a little more :) without buying those lapidary equipments? (I have spend hours cleaning my chalcedony with a toothbrush and soap (plus some dish washing detergents to remove dirts on the rocks). It worked very well for the chalcedonies which have a already shiny quarts crystals inside. But the amethysts are still very dim. May I use varnish (is it the right word?, a kind of chemical to shine/polish wood or any other things...) on some parts of the rocks, especially for ametists. Or is there any other method for polishing rocks by hand-work only. Yasin Yilmaz _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From howbout4 at netnitco.net Fri Jul 9 09:47:03 2004 From: howbout4 at netnitco.net (Joan Mammarella) Date: Fri Jul 9 09:56:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collection locations on Trip References: <40ED7011.2080600@rcn.com> Message-ID: <002201c465d4$5d7901a0$4d6e0b42@jlmbase> If you have time there is an unusual site just east of Rt.41 in Kentland, Indiana, There is a quarry that mines an uprising of limestone believed to have occured from a meteorite impact. I have been there several times with our club and have a couple of nice shattercone specimens. The shattercones are evidence of the impact, or that is what the scientist believe. Joan Valparaiso, IN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Olmstead" To: Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 11:02 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Collection locations on Trip > For a trip to Sand Fest 2004, I will be traveling from Arlington, > Virginia, to the Sand Dunes area of Indiana, and returning via > Cincinnati, Ohio. The route generally will be I-270 to I -70 (in > Maryland), proceeding west to I-68, through MD, WVA, and into Ohio, > returning to I-70, and continuing west into Indiana. Prior to reaching > Indianapolis, we will turn north (not yet sure of routing), to proceed > to Sand Dunes area. > > The return will take us from Sand Dunes to Cincinnati, and return from > Cincinnati to Arlington, probably via US 50. > > Can anyone suggest good collecting sites not too far off the route > sketched out above? Would they be public or private lands? Are there > any difficulties regarding access? > > Many thanks for any help. > > G. Olmstead > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Fri Jul 9 11:12:57 2004 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Fri Jul 9 11:14:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A Rare Glimpse Beneath The Waves Message-ID: <40EEE029.90209@tenforward.com> 7/9/2004 A Rare Glimpse Beneath The Waves By John Cornish j&gcornish@tenforward.com The Summer was officially here and with it come the extreme low tides that are so loved by beach enthusiasts here in Washington State. On a warm July morning just recently past, I was fortunate to be out adventuring with several others along an infrequently accessed stretch of beach on the hunt for fossils. This locality yields a wonderfully diverse group of Oligocene invertebrates and occasional sharks teeth. The exposure is on private property and spans an area measuring about 50 feet in length. The fossils are weathering free from a solid band of material cutting the cliff and as loose cobbles and boulders scattered about the outcrop. During previous trips I've sought out specifically the hardest rock, for it's within that the most attractively preserved fossils are found and this most recent trip had my focus centered in much the same way. I worked these rocks for a time and found several when split which yielded fine assemblages of treasures adding a decent weight to my pack for my homeward trek. After a time, and with these newly won goodies wrapped and stowed away, I felt sated and next decided to work the softer fossil bearing rock also scattered about. For the next hour or so I split out some not too interesting this and that and then as I checked after the crack of my last smack of the hammer, I discovered the newly exposed bright and shiny surface of my first sharks tooth from this locality. It's a neat jagged little thing about a half an inch long which sits beaming, bright and shiny on its dull gray-brown matrix. With a smile covering my face, I worked steadily until eventually I had my fill. After wrapping and packing the last of my treasures safely away, I decided next to wander about while the others continued their search. I'd not traveled far when the twin color sensations of blooming Indian Paintbrush flowers and juicy, ripe wild blackberries beckoned. I enjoyed the flowers visually and then enjoyed the berries gastronomically! Umm, umm good! Sated for the moment with the cliff and its world, I next opted to explore the waters edge. The tides were extremely low this day and were listed as being below a 3 foot minus. These low tides are treasured by locals for their excellent claming opportunities as areas rarely exposed are opened by the receding waters. With this opportunity availing itself to me, I just had to see what treasures were exposed. The way out was mucky and wet as the saturated sands welled up around my shoes as I slogged my way further and further out. The way was covered in eel grass and while I looked, I never did see any Dungeness crabs buried beneath their snake-like lengths. I spotted several dozen brightly colored starfish in varying sizes, some quite large and all multi-armed. Another dozen big moon snails were scattered about, with their dinner plate sized slimy foots busied in varying degrees of partial burial as they sought to escape the bright searing heat of the sun. Add to these a scattering of hairy necked horse clams and you've a near total experience into those things wild which I encountered. A near experience, but not a total one however as craftily I've kept the best for last... I've lived here in Washington my entire life and being as the beach has always played a role for my family and I, I'm fairly well versed in the wild life I encounter, but there has been one creature which I've never seen; this is the illusive Geoduck clam. The Geoduck, pronounced gooey-duck, is the big prize of the clam world hereabouts. These clams weigh up to several pounds and have always been eagerly sought by enthusiastic chowder-makers. These clams have a long life span and can live to be a hundred years old, as such they do not replenish themselves fast enough to reinforce their ranks and like most desirable things, they've become quite scarce and rare. And yet, here before me lay my first Geoduck. It was a monstrous thing with its flaccid, soft neck laying stretched out across the sand somewhat obscenely before its hole. Upon my approach, with its resultant ground rumbling, the Geoducks neck slithered across the sand to finally disappear, dropping from view into the soupy sands. Thrilled to have seen such an illusive beasty, I set out to hopefully discover more and eventually I did just that. The half dozen Geoducks I spotted as I ranged about all more or less reacted the same way upon my approach, either flat disappearing or first shooting a spray of water and then disappearing. Neat. Thrilled with all of my discoveries, I eventually made my way back to the group where everyone was packing up to leave. Everyone had found treasure and all had a terrific day. We yakked it up on our way out and I shared my discoveries along with everyone else. No one seemed to be as pleased with my Geoduck discoveries as I'd been, but on their way out, I noticed the banks getting a whole lot more attention as the others feasted on their own berries. For those of you interested, please consider visiting the following website for a smile-filled Geoduck digging adventure which I discovered when looking for photographs online to share with friends unfamiliar with these native northwest treasures. All the very best everyone. Take care and keep clam! John http://www.tonywhite.net/Goeduck.htm --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Fri Jul 9 13:59:13 2004 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Fri Jul 9 14:00:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rocks & Minerals magazine Message-ID: <40EF0721.6020804@tenforward.com> Hi All, Congratulations to all those Drizzlers out there who have been featured in the latest two issues of Rocks & Minerals magazine! In the latest issue, V79, N4 (an awesome issue with a new format!) Van King has two papers on garnet morphology as contributed at the last Rochester Mineralogical Symposium (Rochester, N.Y., April 3-6, 2004) and Ronnie Van Dommelen got his smiling mug photoed in the Through the 'Scope, 2003 feature. And in last issue, V79, N3, Lanny Ream was acknowledged for his years of commitment to the hobby in a tribute letter. And heck, while I don't deserve any mention, I was thrilled to see one of my self collected Rat's Nest, Idaho heulandites (which I'd mined last year) in the inside back cover photo-ad by Astro Gallery of Gems (upper right had case, bottom shelf, center) in issue V79, N3. Job well done folks! All the best, John From kahako at aloha.net Fri Jul 9 18:55:15 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Jul 9 18:29:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A Rare Glimpse Beneath The Waves In-Reply-To: <40EEE029.90209@tenforward.com> References: <40EEE029.90209@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040709152830.02fdaa70@mail.aloha.net> I remember digging for geoducks one particular occasion back in the 1950's somewhere in Puget Sound (don't remember which island, probably in the San Juans, but possibly Bainbridge). It was an extremely low tide, but to catch that low tide we had to go at night, and there was what people called phosphorescence in the water, which I believe is caused by microorganisms---some say associated with a "red tide." The effect was seen whenever the water was disturbed, in every little lap of the water on the shore, and in splashes if someone threw a rock in the water: brilliant bright blue-white flashes! And when you walked in the soupy sand, you left sparkling footprints. Shovels thrust in the sand produced silver glow. The show was almost like looking at scheelite or hydrozincite under SW UV (yes, I was a glowhound back then, as now), but the bright flashes only lasted a few seconds. I barely remember the rather disgusting-looking geoduck we got, but I'll never forget the glowing tide! I've only seen that phenomena on one other occasion, and that was on a camping trip on Menele Beach on the island of Lanai, here in Hawaii. Since it was open ocean instead of a protected sound, the disturbance of the water was caused by surf, and the glowing waves were spectacular, as well as blue-white sheets of sparkling light sliding up the beach. Aloha, Kitty At 08:12 AM 7/9/2004, you wrote: >7/9/2004 > >A Rare Glimpse Beneath The Waves > >By John Cornish >j&gcornish@tenforward.com From pjmodreski at att.net Fri Jul 9 18:38:11 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Fri Jul 9 18:38:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A Rare Glimpse Beneath The Waves Message-ID: <071020040138.28961.40EF488300072A0100007121216037631607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Well, John, that's sure interesting about the big ol' clams--quite famous in the Northwest, I understand. There are a plethora of websites about the geoduck, some of which include the famous "Gooey Duck Song". Here are a few of them (John I'm sure knows all this, but the others of us may not), http://www.olywa.net/cook/faq.htm [this url is weird, it links to a .ppt file, it opens, but I can't seem to paste in the url, here's what's there, PPT] What is a Geoduck?? File Format: Microsoft Powerpoint 97 - View as HTML ... Loveable but it can seem a bit obscene. Click to add text. Geoduck Fight Song by Malcolm Stilson. Go, Geoducks, go! Through the mud and the sand, let’s go! ... academic.evergreen.edu/s/stilsonr/geoduckshow.ppt - Similar pages http://www.geocities.com/rickram.geo/goeyduck.html http://sniff.numachi.com/~rickheit/dtrad/pages/tiGOOEYDUK;ttGOOEYDUK.html I'm sure I once found a website that SANG the gooey duck song, but I can't locate it now! All these is very far removed from anything we have here in Colorado, of course. However, we do have some Cretaceous and other-aged really old clam burrows in the Dakota Sandstone and other formations, for what that's worth! Pete Modreski --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From afox at drizzle.com Fri Jul 9 21:38:46 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Fri Jul 9 21:38:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Just a not-so-friendly reminder Message-ID: The use of this list as a method for harvesting email addresses for commercial ventures is strictly prohibited. It is not ment as an easy way for you to build custom spam databases. We have relatively lax policies regarding advertisements, but email harvesting has been, and always will be prohibited. I personally have been 'subscribed' to several mineral/gem/fossil mailing lists without consent, and I suspect the offenders have accounts on this mailing list. Please stop. Now. Let it be known that if I catch you, or receive complaints from other list members, you will be banned from the list, and I will send an army of angry monkeys to your door to shove rabid weasels down your pants while reading Vogon poetry at you. That is all. Flames to me offline at the address below in .sig Aaron Fox Rockhounds Admin -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox Highway Patrolman: "Sir, do you know how fast you were going?" Heisenberg: "No, but I know EXACTLY where I was!" From tim at orerockon.com Sat Jul 10 13:07:55 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sat Jul 10 13:07:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Legitimacy? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.2.20040710130254.02a568d8@mail.spiritone.com> Was cleaning my inbox when I re-read this post from Dawn. The latest news from the Prineville show held a few weeks ago is that the Crook Co. CofC in their infinite wisdom has decided to stop promoting rockhounding in their county. They no longer provide maps nor respond to inquiries from rockhounds. They haven't kept any of their claims current anyway. 'Tis a shame... At 04:46 PM 9/17/2003, you wrote: >The Chamber still has maps and directions to the sites they "own". The >charge a couple of $$'s to cover the postage and copying, but they mailed >a packet out to me a year ago. Found some real nice petrified wood at one >location. There were a couple we couldn't find, but then with 2 pre-teens >in the car we didnt' try very hard on some locations. > >Here's a link to them, with phone # >http://www.prineville-crookcounty.org/chamber/chamb_local.cfm. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Sat Jul 10 14:50:02 2004 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Sat Jul 10 14:50:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A Rare Glimpse Beneath The Waves In-Reply-To: <071020040138.28961.40EF488300072A0100007121216037631607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <071020040138.28961.40EF488300072A0100007121216037631607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <40F0648A.1060100@tenforward.com> Hi Pete and Everyone, Thank you for your comments and the additional info. While reading your letter a thought crossed my mind, and while it's not a clam or a burrow, you do have reference to some of the coolest fossils out there, specifically the native silver snails! These are just too cool sounding, incidentally, have you ever seen one of these? Thanks again and all the very best, John pjmodreski@att.net wrote: >Well, John, that's sure interesting about the big ol' clams--quite famous in the Northwest, I understand. > >There are a plethora of websites about the geoduck, some of which include the famous "Gooey Duck Song". Here are a few of them (John I'm sure knows all this, but the others of us may not), > >http://www.olywa.net/cook/faq.htm > >[this url is weird, it links to a .ppt file, it opens, but I can't seem to paste in the url, here's what's there, >PPT] What is a Geoduck?? >File Format: Microsoft Powerpoint 97 - View as HTML >... Loveable but it can seem a bit obscene. Click to add text. Geoduck Fight Song by >Malcolm Stilson. Go, Geoducks, go! Through the mud and the sand, let's go! ... >academic.evergreen.edu/s/stilsonr/geoduckshow.ppt - Similar pages > >http://www.geocities.com/rickram.geo/goeyduck.html > >http://sniff.numachi.com/~rickheit/dtrad/pages/tiGOOEYDUK;ttGOOEYDUK.html > >I'm sure I once found a website that SANG the gooey duck song, but I can't locate it now! > >All these is very far removed from anything we have here in Colorado, of course. However, we do have some Cretaceous and other-aged really old clam burrows in the Dakota Sandstone and other formations, for what that's worth! > >Pete Modreski > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From folmstead at rcn.com Sat Jul 10 21:23:55 2004 From: folmstead at rcn.com (Fred Olmstead) Date: Sat Jul 10 21:09:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] mammoth In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40F0C0DB.7030508@rcn.com> Hi >did anyone hear the WRC 6 p.m. news (short) report yesterday >about discovery of a 150,000 year old mammoth fossils in >Sacramento, CA??? > >GeorgiaO > > > > > > > From folmstead at rcn.com Sat Jul 10 21:25:39 2004 From: folmstead at rcn.com (Fred Olmstead) Date: Sat Jul 10 21:10:50 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mammoth Message-ID: <40F0C143.10308@rcn.com> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: te: From: To: I wonder if this is the mammoth mentioned on channel 4 WRC news july 9 GMO what Abstracts for PaleoBios 20[1-3] http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/museum/pbios/abstracts20_1to3.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html text/html --- From pchil at botsnet.bw Sat Jul 3 21:28:38 2004 From: pchil at botsnet.bw (P.C. Hulley) Date: Sat Jul 10 21:28:05 2004 Subject: Fw: [Rockhounds] Phosphorescence Message-ID: <002501c4617f$8b01ac20$a848a7a8@hulley> 'Morning all This may be off topic, but I had a similar experience with phosphorescence in Mauritius, one's legs glow briefly when on stepping out of the water. Also experienced it sailing in the Mozambique channel, more specifically the Agulhas current, which flows south from Madagascar to the Cape. The wake of the boat glows a milky white and the bow wave sparkles like thousands of fireflies. If there is a fresh wind blowing, the crests of the waves also glow, can be quite scary seeing the luminous white foam bearing down on you! I have also seen fish, caught at night, glowing eerily as they are pulled up out of the water. The fluorescence lasts only for a short while, and if you touch the fish, your hands will glow for a while as well. Great fun growing up on a deep sea fishing boat based in Durban, off the coast of Kwa Zulu Natal South Africa! Found quite a good explanation at www.mehs.educ.state.ak.us/staff/thart/phosphorescence.html Hildagarde Hulley in Botswana. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kitty & Bill Heacox > > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 3:55 AM > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] A Rare Glimpse Beneath The Waves > > > > > > > > > > I remember digging for geoducks one particular occasion back in the > > 1950's > > > > somewhere in Puget Sound (don't remember which island, probably in the > > San > > > > Juans, but possibly Bainbridge). It was an extremely low tide, but to > > > > catch that low tide we had to go at night, and there was what people > > > called > > > > phosphorescence in the water, which I believe is caused by > > > > microorganisms---some say associated with a "red tide." The effect > was > > > > seen whenever the water was disturbed, in every little lap of the > water > > on > > > > the shore, and in splashes if someone threw a rock in the water: > > > brilliant > > > > bright blue-white flashes! And when you walked in the soupy sand, you > > > left > > > > sparkling footprints. Shovels thrust in the sand produced silver > > > > glow. The show was almost like looking at scheelite or hydrozincite > > under > > > > SW UV (yes, I was a glowhound back then, as now), but the bright > flashes > > > > only lasted a few seconds. I barely remember the rather > > > disgusting-looking > > > > geoduck we got, but I'll never forget the glowing tide! > > > > > > > > I've only seen that phenomena on one other occasion, and that was on a > > > > camping trip on Menele Beach on the island of Lanai, here in Hawaii. > > > Since > > > > it was open ocean instead of a protected sound, the disturbance of the > > > > water was caused by surf, and the glowing waves were spectacular, as > > well > > > > as blue-white sheets of sparkling light sliding up the beach. > > > > > > > > Aloha, Kitty > > > > > > > > > > > > At 08:12 AM 7/9/2004, you wrote: > > > > >7/9/2004 > > > > > > > > > >A Rare Glimpse Beneath The Waves > > > > > > > > > >By John Cornish > > > > >j&gcornish@tenforward.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > > Subscription Services: > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > From Lapadary at aol.com Sat Jul 10 21:28:59 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Sat Jul 10 21:29:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mammoth Message-ID: <90.489b451e.2e221c0b@aol.com> I think the new find was at an undisclosed location in South Sacramento. Arco Arena is a few miles north of Sacramento. Grant in Chico --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Lapadary at aol.com Sat Jul 10 21:41:42 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Sat Jul 10 21:41:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] mamoth bones in Sac Message-ID: Here is the story in the local paper. _http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/science/story/9946598p-10868536c.html_ (http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/science/story/9946598p-10868536c.html) Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sun Jul 11 08:02:26 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sun Jul 11 07:58:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Clams, and phosphorescence References: <40EEE029.90209@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <005701c46758$14cbcca0$7da5490c@pete> [No, these are two unrelated topics, that evolved from the same original post--not connected at all!] Pete's last comment about those big ol' clams... John, as I recall the end of your story said that when you cooked 'em up, they were a bit tough but tasted good. I guess my comment--not being a serious clam freak, are those things REALLY good enough tasting to be worth cooking and eating such a gross-looking critter? I can think of lots of other good-tasting things that aren't tough and chewy. I think maybe I'll just stick to hot dogs when I want "tasty" and beef jerky when I want "chewy". And now to the phosphorescence. When recently leading a little after-dark field trip with black lights for a science teachers group, to an old fluorite mine near Jamestown CO, on our walk back through the woods, we saw (as we had last year when I led the same excursion), several "glow-worms", insect larvae just sitting there on rocks or twigs, glowing a bright, vivid green. I've only seen such things a couple of times in my life--here, and once in New Mexico. Interesting, both times were when I had been looking for fl. minerals after dark; I think it's because that's one of the few times one is likely to be walking around in the dark, without any lights on, and paying careful attention to what's on the ground. The glow-worms just sit there displaying their continuous, bright green bioluminescence, just like you were shining a UV light on a speck of very bright willemite or hyalite--but, no UV light required! (I guess some day, I should figure out exactly what type & species or whatever, of insect larva this is, that glows this way. They are tiny, I'd say maybe 1/4 inch long. cheers (or as Don Newsome always said or says, "Keep on glowing!) Pete Modreski From tjokela at execulink.com Sun Jul 11 08:10:59 2004 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Sun Jul 11 08:11:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Clams, and phosphorescence References: <40EEE029.90209@tenforward.com> <005701c46758$14cbcca0$7da5490c@pete> Message-ID: <000a01c46759$4718e2a0$6401a8c0@Junior> Scorpions fluoresce. I heard that in some third world country they found cheap UV lites to be very handy to inspect the inside and outside of their huts with and kill any they find, cutting down on infants getting stung and seriously hurt or killed. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 11:02 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Clams, and phosphorescence > [No, these are two unrelated topics, that evolved from the same original > post--not connected at all!] > > Pete's last comment about those big ol' clams... > > John, as I recall the end of your story said that when you cooked 'em up, > they were a bit tough but tasted good. I guess my comment--not being a > serious clam freak, are those things REALLY good enough tasting to be worth > cooking and eating such a gross-looking critter? I can think of lots of > other good-tasting things that aren't tough and chewy. I think maybe I'll > just stick to hot dogs when I want "tasty" and beef jerky when I want > "chewy". > > And now to the phosphorescence. When recently leading a little after-dark > field trip with black lights for a science teachers group, to an old > fluorite mine near Jamestown CO, on our walk back through the woods, we saw > (as we had last year when I led the same excursion), several "glow-worms", > insect larvae just sitting there on rocks or twigs, glowing a bright, vivid > green. I've only seen such things a couple of times in my life--here, and > once in New Mexico. Interesting, both times were when I had been looking > for fl. minerals after dark; I think it's because that's one of the few > times one is likely to be walking around in the dark, without any lights on, > and paying careful attention to what's on the ground. The glow-worms just > sit there displaying their continuous, bright green bioluminescence, just > like you were shining a UV light on a speck of very bright willemite or > hyalite--but, no UV light required! (I guess some day, I should figure out > exactly what type & species or whatever, of insect larva this is, that glows > this way. They are tiny, I'd say maybe 1/4 inch long. > > cheers (or as Don Newsome always said or says, "Keep on glowing!) > Pete Modreski > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at aloha.net Sun Jul 11 10:27:06 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Jul 11 10:01:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Clams, and phosphorescence In-Reply-To: <005701c46758$14cbcca0$7da5490c@pete> References: <40EEE029.90209@tenforward.com> <005701c46758$14cbcca0$7da5490c@pete> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040711071821.03917c80@mail.aloha.net> I mentioned this before, and others concurred, that in New Zealand the Waitomo Caves have "glow worms" that line the ceiling of an underground lake. Visitors take a tour of a huge cave with stalactites and stalagmites, then get into a boat and float out to the middle of the lake. Guides turn off their lights and overhead the "glow worms" look like galaxies of stars. Aloha, Kitty At 05:02 AM 7/11/2004, you wrote: >And now to the phosphorescence. When recently leading a little after-dark >field trip with black lights for a science teachers group, to an old >fluorite mine near Jamestown CO, on our walk back through the woods, we saw >(as we had last year when I led the same excursion), several "glow-worms", >insect larvae just sitting there on rocks or twigs, glowing a bright, vivid >green. I've only seen such things a couple of times in my life--here, and >once in New Mexico. Interesting, both times were when I had been looking >for fl. minerals after dark; I think it's because that's one of the few >times one is likely to be walking around in the dark, without any lights on, >and paying careful attention to what's on the ground. The glow-worms just >sit there displaying their continuous, bright green bioluminescence, just >like you were shining a UV light on a speck of very bright willemite or >hyalite--but, no UV light required! (I guess some day, I should figure out >exactly what type & species or whatever, of insect larva this is, that glows >this way. They are tiny, I'd say maybe 1/4 inch long. > >cheers (or as Don Newsome always said or says, "Keep on glowing!) >Pete Modreski > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jr50wv at yahoo.com Sun Jul 11 13:27:45 2004 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Sun Jul 11 13:27:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] glow-worms in the east of north america Message-ID: <20040711202745.97408.qmail@web41005.mail.yahoo.com> Hi guys: I think many (most if not all) glow worms in the east are larval fireflys, which for some reason aren't found in the western states, but make quite a beautiful display on summer evenings here in West Virginia Well, really, there in WV, since I'm visiting my Dad and brother's family in Houston TX. But the point's the same. There are also glowing molds or fungi on rotten stumps and wood on the forest floor. I first saw this when I was about 12, making my way home after dark the Friday evening after Thanksgiving. The folks were so glad to find us walking on the road after finally getting out of the woods they didn't even spank us! That was as big a relief as finally walking on asphalt! Phosphorescence and fluorescence are a wonderful gifts of mature, no matter where you find them! JR __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sun Jul 11 19:09:17 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun Jul 11 19:09:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] "Giesickite" Message-ID: <008a01c467b5$3cd39fe0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> While at the Princess Sodalite mine over a week ago, Andy Christie showed us a green rock with magnetite inclusions. He says it is an altered clay called something like "giesickite." I'm not sure of the correct spelling. Has anyone heard of that? Alan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Jul 11 20:16:17 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Jul 11 20:14:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] "Giesickite" References: <008a01c467b5$3cd39fe0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <40F2021D.472@Tomaszewski.net> Alan Goldstein wrote: > > While at the Princess Sodalite mine over a week ago, Andy Christie showed us a green rock with magnetite inclusions. He says it is an altered clay called something like "giesickite." I'm not sure of the correct spelling. Has anyone heard of that? > > Alan > Giessenite is a sulphosalt. Elbaite of Giesecke is a synonym for ilvaite, a sorosilicate. Geikielite is an oxide. White analcime altered from sodalite is known from the Princess Mine. Orthoclase is also known from the Princess and might provide the clay. Green in clay is often mica altered to chlorite. Magnetite is not uncommon with sodalite. From friedmanhvj at yahoo.com Sun Jul 11 20:34:29 2004 From: friedmanhvj at yahoo.com (friedmanhvj@yahoo.com) Date: Sun Jul 11 20:34:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] glow-worms in the east of north america In-Reply-To: <20040711202745.97408.qmail@web41005.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040712033429.67416.qmail@web51607.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all! While camping at Big Bend National Park in Texas at the Chisos basin, I also saw glow-worms in the nearby rocks.I was told they are the larvae of fireflies. They really created an eery night along side the remarkable star clustered sky! Virginia Friedman Grad student UT Dallas --- "J. R. Hodel" wrote: > Hi guys: > > I think many (most if not all) glow worms in the > east > are larval fireflys, which for some reason aren't > found in the western states, but make quite a > beautiful display on summer evenings here in West > Virginia > > Well, really, there in WV, since I'm visiting my Dad > and brother's family in Houston TX. But the point's > the same. > > There are also glowing molds or fungi on rotten > stumps > and wood on the forest floor. I first saw this when > I > was about 12, making my way home after dark the > Friday > evening after Thanksgiving. The folks were so glad > to > find us walking on the road after finally getting > out > of the woods they didn't even spank us! That was as > big a relief as finally walking on asphalt! > > Phosphorescence and fluorescence are a wonderful > gifts > of mature, no matter where you find them! > > JR > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From Lapadary at aol.com Sun Jul 11 20:41:36 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Sun Jul 11 20:41:41 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] glow-worms in the east of north america Message-ID: <1d9.25c7c784.2e236270@aol.com> In a message dated 7/11/04 8:34:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, friedmanhvj@yahoo.com writes: I also saw glow-worms in the nearby rocks.I was told they are the larvae of fireflies. They really created an eery night along side the remarkable star clustered sky! ------ They can be found in the vegetation along dirt roads in Louisiana too. They seem to glow brighter on really dark nights, and it helps to determine where the road edge is located. Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From arf at mc.net Sun Jul 11 20:48:35 2004 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Sun Jul 11 20:57:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] glow-worms in the east of north america References: <20040712033429.67416.qmail@web51607.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01fd01c467c4$6b3d0ab0$985c70d1@S0033035959> Every Spring we can sort of judge how the firefly display is going to be in July but the number of glow worms we see in late May. This year was not so hot probably because of all the rain we had. js PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/weekly.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sun Jul 11 21:53:54 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sun Jul 11 21:50:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] glow-worms in the east of north america References: <20040712033429.67416.qmail@web51607.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002101c467cc$3d8a9c60$0fa6490c@pete> We don't have any fireflies this far west, in Colorado, so the luminescent larvae I saw must be of something else. I've tried searching on the internet a bit, but haven't found anything definitive about what insect this might be. Pete From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Sun Jul 11 11:58:34 2004 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Mon Jul 12 01:07:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Clams, and phosphorescence References: <40EEE029.90209@tenforward.com><005701c46758$14cbcca0$7da5490c@pete> <000a01c46759$4718e2a0$6401a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <000401c467e7$42348120$c33f27c4@privatehome> When the second World War broke out, the British Government requested all its Commonwealth countries and colonies to prospect for tungsten mineral to aid their war effort. In South Africa, prospecting then was carried out in the Namaqualand Region (Springbok being the largest town in the area). As scheelite fluoresces a bluish-white it was easily recognisable, but in the veld two other objects fluoresce the same colour - scorpions and bird droppings. Thus prospectors were sometimes fooled! Horst ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Jokela Jr." To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Clams, and phosphorescence > Scorpions fluoresce. I heard that in some third world country they found > cheap UV lites to be very handy to inspect the inside and outside of their > huts with and kill any they find, cutting down on infants getting stung and > seriously hurt or killed. > > Cheers, > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter J. Modreski" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 11:02 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Clams, and phosphorescence > > > > [No, these are two unrelated topics, that evolved from the same original > > post--not connected at all!] > > > > Pete's last comment about those big ol' clams... > > > > John, as I recall the end of your story said that when you cooked 'em up, > > they were a bit tough but tasted good. I guess my comment--not being a > > serious clam freak, are those things REALLY good enough tasting to be > worth > > cooking and eating such a gross-looking critter? I can think of lots of > > other good-tasting things that aren't tough and chewy. I think maybe I'll > > just stick to hot dogs when I want "tasty" and beef jerky when I want > > "chewy". > > > > And now to the phosphorescence. When recently leading a little after-dark > > field trip with black lights for a science teachers group, to an old > > fluorite mine near Jamestown CO, on our walk back through the woods, we > saw > > (as we had last year when I led the same excursion), several "glow-worms", > > insect larvae just sitting there on rocks or twigs, glowing a bright, > vivid > > green. I've only seen such things a couple of times in my life--here, and > > once in New Mexico. Interesting, both times were when I had been looking > > for fl. minerals after dark; I think it's because that's one of the few > > times one is likely to be walking around in the dark, without any lights > on, > > and paying careful attention to what's on the ground. The glow-worms just > > sit there displaying their continuous, bright green bioluminescence, just > > like you were shining a UV light on a speck of very bright willemite or > > hyalite--but, no UV light required! (I guess some day, I should figure > out > > exactly what type & species or whatever, of insect larva this is, that > glows > > this way. They are tiny, I'd say maybe 1/4 inch long. > > > > cheers (or as Don Newsome always said or says, "Keep on glowing!) > > Pete Modreski > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From newryqs at rochester.rr.com Mon Jul 12 06:27:46 2004 From: newryqs at rochester.rr.com (Van) Date: Mon Jul 12 06:28:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] "Giesickite" References: <008a01c467b5$3cd39fe0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> <40F2021D.472@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <006001c46814$0a0b16b0$5df64342@nathanqa8gl7gx> Gieseckite originally appeared to be a valid species, as defined in 1817, however the analyses may have been defective. Many references simply suggest that gieseckite is a replacement of "pinite" after nepheline, essentially the way the mineral was originally identified. While many mica mineralogists equate pinite with a greasy, fine grained muscovite, gieseckite is more likely a low iron phlogopite. Best Regards, Van ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 11:16 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] "Giesickite" > Alan Goldstein wrote: > > > > While at the Princess Sodalite mine over a week ago, Andy Christie showed us a green rock with magnetite inclusions. He says it is an altered clay called something like "giesickite." I'm not sure of the correct spelling. Has anyone heard of that? > > > > Alan > > > > Giessenite is a sulphosalt. Elbaite of Giesecke is a synonym for > ilvaite, a sorosilicate. Geikielite is an oxide. White analcime altered > from sodalite is known from the Princess Mine. Orthoclase is also known > from the Princess and might provide the clay. Green in clay is often > mica altered to chlorite. Magnetite is not uncommon with sodalite. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Mon Jul 12 09:55:46 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Mon Jul 12 09:52:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200407121652.i6CGqceV010571@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Has anyone else noticed how often mineral specimens show up as "set dressing" in the Star Trek shows? I was just watching the latest in the Voyager DVD set (don't ask me how much I've spent for 'Trek DVD's, eh? PLEASE DON'T), and saw in the background a nice little septarian nodule. You know... One of those things with the grey matrix and brown/golden/amber barite filling. If you look at almost any STNG episode you'll see killer agate slices and halves. I was wondering if Leslie Frankenheimer is One Of Us. GcB http://www.catspaw-minerals.com Home of the MasMils/PLUS Mine Location Disk From Gslrocks at aol.com Mon Jul 12 09:53:48 2004 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Mon Jul 12 09:53:52 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] glow-worms in the east of north america Message-ID: <1cf.25a91e83.2e241c1c@aol.com> what you saw could have been railroad worms, some have patterns that look like a train with the passenger windows lit up at night. Greg Lesinski GSLROCKS 4726 Porter Center Rd. Lewiston NY 14092 Fluorescent minerals, ultraviolet lamps and reference books website www.gslrocks.com GSLROCKS@AOL.COM 716-754-9729 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From newryqs at rochester.rr.com Mon Jul 12 10:43:06 2004 From: newryqs at rochester.rr.com (Van) Date: Mon Jul 12 10:44:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates References: <200407121652.i6CGqceV010571@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <000b01c46837$b8f43a80$5df64342@nathanqa8gl7gx> Rock Currier told me that William Shatner believes in the psychic power of crystals and has been a customer. Van ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Brown" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 12:55 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates > Has anyone else noticed how often mineral specimens show up as "set > dressing" in the Star Trek shows? I was just watching the latest in the > Voyager DVD set (don't ask me how much I've spent for 'Trek DVD's, eh? > PLEASE DON'T), and saw in the background a nice little septarian nodule. > You know... One of those things with the grey matrix and brown/golden/amber > barite filling. If you look at almost any STNG episode you'll see killer > agate slices and halves. > > I was wondering if Leslie Frankenheimer is One Of Us. > > GcB > http://www.catspaw-minerals.com > Home of the MasMils/PLUS Mine Location Disk > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pchil at botsnet.bw Mon Jul 5 13:30:06 2004 From: pchil at botsnet.bw (P.C. Hulley) Date: Mon Jul 12 13:30:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates References: <200407121652.i6CGqceV010571@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <001301c462cf$2a02dec0$5748a7a8@hulley> >From one trekkie to another, I've had my suspicions for some time Hildagarde Hulley Botswana ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Brown To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 6:55 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates > Has anyone else noticed how often mineral specimens show up as "set > dressing" in the Star Trek shows? I was just watching the latest in the > Voyager DVD set (don't ask me how much I've spent for 'Trek DVD's, eh? > PLEASE DON'T), and saw in the background a nice little septarian nodule. > You know... One of those things with the grey matrix and brown/golden/amber > barite filling. If you look at almost any STNG episode you'll see killer > agate slices and halves. > > I was wondering if Leslie Frankenheimer is One Of Us. > > GcB > http://www.catspaw-minerals.com > Home of the MasMils/PLUS Mine Location Disk > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jul 12 14:42:42 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jul 12 14:42:36 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates References: <200407121652.i6CGqceV010571@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <001301c462cf$2a02dec0$5748a7a8@hulley> Message-ID: <009001c46859$2ce3a130$6402a8c0@axel> As a moderate yet fervent "trekkie" I'd have to say that the competition AKA Stargate-1 has taken over the concept.... Giant blue quartz XX in loose yellow sand... a bit weird but aesthetic. Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "P.C. Hulley" To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 10:30 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates > >From one trekkie to another, I've had my suspicions for some time > > Hildagarde Hulley Botswana > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gary Brown > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' > > Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 6:55 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates > > > > Has anyone else noticed how often mineral specimens show up as "set > > dressing" in the Star Trek shows? I was just watching the latest in the > > Voyager DVD set (don't ask me how much I've spent for 'Trek DVD's, eh? > > PLEASE DON'T), and saw in the background a nice little septarian nodule. > > You know... One of those things with the grey matrix and > brown/golden/amber > > barite filling. If you look at almost any STNG episode you'll see killer > > agate slices and halves. > > > > I was wondering if Leslie Frankenheimer is One Of Us. > > > > GcB > > http://www.catspaw-minerals.com > > Home of the MasMils/PLUS Mine Location Disk > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Jul 12 15:38:21 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Jul 12 15:38:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] glow-worms in the east of north america Message-ID: <071220042238.23860.40F312DC000EB85200005D34216037631607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> I read about those online--don't know if that's what we saw, we didn't notice any "passenger car" pattern, but probably no one looked at one closely enough with a hand lens, to see that. Pete -------------- Original message from Gslrocks@aol.com: -------------- > what you saw could have been railroad worms, some have patterns that look > like a train with the passenger windows lit up at night. > > > Greg Lesinski > GSLROCKS > 4726 Porter Center Rd. > Lewiston NY > 14092 > Fluorescent minerals, ultraviolet lamps and reference books > website www.gslrocks.com > GSLROCKS@AOL.COM > 716-754-9729 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Jul 12 15:54:52 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Jul 12 15:50:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] glow-worms in the east of north america References: <20040712033429.67416.qmail@web51607.mail.yahoo.com> <002101c467cc$3d8a9c60$0fa6490c@pete> Message-ID: <40F315B8.7109@Tomaszewski.net> Peter J. Modreski wrote: > > We don't have any fireflies this far west, in Colorado, so the luminescent > larvae I saw must be of something else. I've tried searching on the > internet a bit, but haven't found anything definitive about what insect this > might be. > > Pete > Pete, It might be a phengodidae (phengodid beetle). And fireflys do range to Colorado. Kreigh From Gslrocks at aol.com Mon Jul 12 16:05:36 2004 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Mon Jul 12 16:05:41 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] glow-worms in the east of north america Message-ID: <119.35353a8e.2e247340@aol.com> http://biodiversity.uno.edu/delta/elateria/images/zarhipif.jpg this is a link to a semi dark picture of one of the larva. Greg Lesinski GSLROCKS 4726 Porter Center Rd. Lewiston NY 14092 Fluorescent minerals, ultraviolet lamps and reference books website www.gslrocks.com GSLROCKS@AOL.COM 716-754-9729 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Mon Jul 12 16:17:23 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Mon Jul 12 16:17:19 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates References: <200407121652.i6CGqceV010571@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <005d01c46866$6340f1d0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I guess that means the set directors for the various Star Trek shows use the crystals as a way of connecting space with earth. I do not recall the original series as having much in the way of natural decor. Deep Space 9 used a baseball (although it had a more prominent role than the rocks). I'm pretty sure Shatner's first love (other than being a Hollywood star) is horses. Astronomy magazine had a interesting (but otherwise useless) article on famous people who were interested in astronomy. For instance, the rock star in the British Group "Queen" who wrote "We are the Champions" was in the process of completing is PhD in astrophysics when their group hit the big time. Now I suppose he could buy his on major observatory! Some stars apparently attend star parties near their homes. It would be fun to find out how many famous people collect fossils or minerals. Obviously many collect gemstones as an investment or to put on someone else's finger. But those don't count!!! Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Brown" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 12:55 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates > Has anyone else noticed how often mineral specimens show up as "set > dressing" in the Star Trek shows? I was just watching the latest in the > Voyager DVD set (don't ask me how much I've spent for 'Trek DVD's, eh? > PLEASE DON'T), and saw in the background a nice little septarian nodule. > You know... One of those things with the grey matrix and brown/golden/amber > barite filling. If you look at almost any STNG episode you'll see killer > agate slices and halves. > > I was wondering if Leslie Frankenheimer is One Of Us. > > GcB > http://www.catspaw-minerals.com > Home of the MasMils/PLUS Mine Location Disk > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Mon Jul 12 16:23:00 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Mon Jul 12 16:22:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] "Giesickite" References: <008a01c467b5$3cd39fe0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose><40F2021D.472@Tomaszewski.net> <006001c46814$0a0b16b0$5df64342@nathanqa8gl7gx> Message-ID: <006701c46867$2c880b50$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Thanks Van, I think you are on the right track. It seems to me that the Troost catalogue had gieseckite in it. I'll have to check my papers and database at work. Nepheline deposits are waaaay out of my knowledge area. But I am always interested in learning more. The material from the Princess Sodalite mine is very interesting stuff... whatever it is!!! Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Van" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] "Giesickite" > Gieseckite originally appeared to be a valid species, as defined in 1817, > however the analyses may have been defective. Many references simply suggest > that gieseckite is a replacement of "pinite" after nepheline, essentially > the way the mineral was originally identified. While many mica mineralogists > equate pinite with a greasy, fine grained muscovite, gieseckite is more > likely a low iron phlogopite. > > > Best Regards, Van > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 11:16 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] "Giesickite" > > > > Alan Goldstein wrote: > > > > > > While at the Princess Sodalite mine over a week ago, Andy Christie > showed us a green rock with magnetite inclusions. He says it is an altered > clay called something like "giesickite." I'm not sure of the correct > spelling. Has anyone heard of that? > > > > > > Alan > > > > > > > Giessenite is a sulphosalt. Elbaite of Giesecke is a synonym for > > ilvaite, a sorosilicate. Geikielite is an oxide. White analcime altered > > from sodalite is known from the Princess Mine. Orthoclase is also known > > from the Princess and might provide the clay. Green in clay is often > > mica altered to chlorite. Magnetite is not uncommon with sodalite. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Jul 12 18:57:58 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Jul 12 18:53:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates References: <200407121652.i6CGqceV010571@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <005d01c46866$6340f1d0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <40F3408A.7E29@Tomaszewski.net> Alan Goldstein wrote: > > It would be fun to find out how many famous people collect fossils or > minerals. Obviously many collect gemstones as an investment or to put on > someone else's finger. But those don't count!!! Washington Roebling was the architect who built the Brooklyn Bridge. His collection became the nucleus of the Smithsonian's Natural History Museum. The Triple A Rock Shop in Idaho claims to have sold Whoopi Goldberg a number of specimens (on their website). But my searching for celebrity rockhounds was not very productive otherwise. Interesting question. Answers might help inspire kids to become rockhounds. Kreigh From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Mon Jul 12 18:58:34 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Mon Jul 12 18:55:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates In-Reply-To: <009001c46859$2ce3a130$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: <200407130155.i6D1tPJJ029717@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Ahhh... I remember those! GcB PS... Not only is my sweetie a Star Trek fan, she is also a rockhound and SG1 fan. So lucky... > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Axel Emmermann > Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 4:43 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates > > As a moderate yet fervent "trekkie" I'd have to say that the > competition AKA > Stargate-1 has taken over the concept.... > Giant blue quartz XX in loose yellow sand... a bit weird but > aesthetic. > > Axel From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Mon Jul 12 19:33:00 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Mon Jul 12 19:32:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates References: <200407130155.i6D1tPJJ029717@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <00d501c46881$b78b5c10$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> My wife is all three as well. How many couples can boast their first date was to a rock quarry and a non-commerical cave? Our second date was to an old quarry to look for fossil corals. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Brown" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 9:58 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates > Ahhh... I remember those! > > GcB > > PS... Not only is my sweetie a Star Trek fan, she is also a rockhound and > SG1 fan. So lucky... From Gslrocks at aol.com Mon Jul 12 19:39:55 2004 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Mon Jul 12 19:40:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates Message-ID: how about first date to a fluorescent infested apartment and the second to Franklin NJ for a night dig.. and got to sleep with a large fluorescent specimen on the bed! Greg Lesinski GSLROCKS 4726 Porter Center Rd. Lewiston NY 14092 Fluorescent minerals, ultraviolet lamps and reference books website www.gslrocks.com GSLROCKS@AOL.COM 716-754-9729 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From morningstar at att.net Mon Jul 12 19:44:21 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Mon Jul 12 19:44:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates Message-ID: <071320040244.25077.40F34C850005F3F9000061F521602813029D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Man, where can I find these women? Don P.S. In answer to someone else's question, I believe the poet Goethe was a collector (otherwise I can't imagine why they would have named goethite after him); the semi-famous medieval German prioress Hildegard von Bingen was quite a collector; but then again we can name a number of people who were involved in the natural sciences who were also collectors; I suppose this list would be more intriguing if we found celebrities who were otherwise unconnected with the sciences. > My wife is all three as well. How many couples can boast their first date > was to a rock quarry and a non-commerical cave? Our second date was to an > old quarry to look for fossil corals. > > Alan From danweinrich at charter.net Mon Jul 12 20:16:52 2004 From: danweinrich at charter.net (Dan Weinrich) Date: Mon Jul 12 20:16:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ad - website update - new pyrrhotites from China References: <200407121652.i6CGqceV010571@bubbleator.drizzle.com><005d01c46866$6340f1d0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> <40F3408A.7E29@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <01b201c46887$d7d746e0$6401a8c0@S0029989181> Hi! I've added new specimens to the "Minerals from China" galleries, including a set of seven new pyrrhotite specimens in very sharp rosettes without matrix. Also note that Reverse Auction #3 is at an 80% discount at this time. Hope that you enjoy looking over the new specimens! Dan Weinrich http://www.danweinrich.com From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Mon Jul 12 20:57:59 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Mon Jul 12 20:54:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] "chatter stones" Message-ID: <005d01c4688d$99c02380$91a5490c@pete> Hi folks at Rockhounds, Now here's a good question for you all, perhaps someone among you knows something about this--since we have people who are experts on all sorts of physical phenomena! A fellow at work just brought in & showed me two shiny, black, metallic, elongate-elliptical shaped polished stones, and asked me what they were. My instant answer (being a smarty-pants--I won't say the other word) was, "hematite". Then he showed me how they were strong magnets, and stuck strongly together when touched. He says they're sold as "chatter stones". They certainly look like hematite--not like iron metal. I told him that hematite can't be magnetic; that magnetite can, but I don't think I've ever seen any magnetite as strongly magnetic as these are. I told him they are probably man-made, not natural, and definitely not hematite. So, I'm puzzling over what they really are made of. Interestingly, the poles of the magnets are not along their long axis, but on the short axis, so they stick together at their midpoints. They don't feel as heavy as iron metal; more like what hematite or magnetite would be, and they are lustrous black, not shiny-metallic like polished iron. I tried a streak test--it's kind of indeterminate, kind of a grayish-brown. I've wondered if they could be a strong magnet, encapsulated within hematite? I told him I'll try to measure the specific gravity, see if that gives me a clue--see if it matches either hematite, magnetite, or iron.. This will be tricky to do, though, because my balance is probably magnetic! I can measure the volume by immersing it in a graduated cylinder of water, and I'll find a way to measure the mass. I did just do the specific gravity measurement; I get a s.g. near 5 (the actual value was 4.7, but that's probably +/- 0.5). This is pretty close to matching both hematite and magnetite (both, s.g. near 5.2), and not near as dense as iron metal (7.8). Does anyone here have clue or a good guess as to what these are made of, and whether they're natural or synthetic? Do any of our physicists know if it's possible to make magnetic hematite (I can't imagine that it is), or if people have synthesized artificial magnetite that is very strongly magnetized, or any other good ideas about what these things might be made of? Some other magnetic compound that does not have a mineral analogue? Pete --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Mon Jul 12 21:40:48 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Mon Jul 12 21:37:06 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] glow-worms in the east of north america References: <20040712033429.67416.qmail@web51607.mail.yahoo.com><002101c467cc$3d8a9c60$0fa6490c@pete> <40F315B8.7109@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <007f01c46893$928e5860$91a5490c@pete> Well, I've never seen a firefly in the Denver area--our summer nights are definitely lacking in those (a pity). I can't vouch for out on the plains, though, close to KS-NE; I can believe they could occur there. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 4:54 PM > It might be a phengodidae (phengodid beetle). And fireflys do range to Colorado. > > Kreigh From Bozo5 at aol.com Mon Jul 12 21:39:48 2004 From: Bozo5 at aol.com (Bozo5@aol.com) Date: Mon Jul 12 21:39:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] "chatter stones" Message-ID: I haven't heard them called that but I can understand why that's fitting: Take the two apart, hold them about three inches apart and toss them three feet into the air. They come together with a Bbbbuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrpp sound. Much like that last sound a spinning coin makes before stopping. I'm very interested in hearing what they are. I'm sure they are much too strong to be natural. I'd say they are up there in strength with the magnets found in computer harddrives, but they have a much harder surface. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Suzy3D at aol.com Mon Jul 12 21:46:00 2004 From: Suzy3D at aol.com (Suzy3D@aol.com) Date: Mon Jul 12 21:46:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] "chatter stones" Message-ID: <9e.f17507c.2e24c308@aol.com> Since the Tucson show in Feb, I've been seeing magnetic "hematite" bead bracelets on customers. They do look like hematite, so I've been assuming they are a hematite simulant made to be magnetic. They seem to be popular with the metaphysical crowd. Karen Boulder, CO From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Jul 13 03:16:29 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jul 13 03:16:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates References: <200407130155.i6D1tPJJ029717@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <001901c468c2$79cc6900$6402a8c0@axel> > PS... Not only is my sweetie a Star Trek fan, she is also a rockhound and > SG1 fan. So lucky... Yoda says: Truly blessed you are... Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Brown" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 3:58 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates > Ahhh... I remember those! > > GcB > > PS... Not only is my sweetie a Star Trek fan, she is also a rockhound and > SG1 fan. So lucky... > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > > Axel Emmermann > > Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 4:43 PM > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates > > > > As a moderate yet fervent "trekkie" I'd have to say that the > > competition AKA > > Stargate-1 has taken over the concept.... > > Giant blue quartz XX in loose yellow sand... a bit weird but > > aesthetic. > > > > Axel > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From libawc at emory.edu Tue Jul 13 03:52:08 2004 From: libawc at emory.edu (Anita Westlake) Date: Tue Jul 13 03:52:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates In-Reply-To: <071320040244.25077.40F34C850005F3F9000061F521602813029D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: <000b01c468c7$71ce1b90$d6be8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> Yes, Johann Von Goethe was a collector. When not busy writing Faust, he would roam the hills in search of mineral specimens. He became rich enough to hire someone to collect for him. Man, how rich is that? I hope I never get that rich. Anita -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of morningstar@att.net Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 10:44 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates Man, where can I find these women? Don P.S. In answer to someone else's question, I believe the poet Goethe was a collector (otherwise I can't imagine why they would have named goethite after him); the semi-famous medieval German prioress Hildegard von Bingen was quite a collector; but then again we can name a number of people who were involved in the natural sciences who were also collectors; I suppose this list would be more intriguing if we found celebrities who were otherwise unconnected with the sciences. > My wife is all three as well. How many couples can boast their first date > was to a rock quarry and a non-commerical cave? Our second date was to an > old quarry to look for fossil corals. > > Alan _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From BNMJEFF at aol.com Tue Jul 13 05:18:25 2004 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Tue Jul 13 05:18:33 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] "chatter stones" Message-ID: <1a8.25dd22e9.2e252d11@aol.com> Pete, you did not say how big these were, but during a visit to a local bead store Saturday, I saw sets of stones used for massage. There were oval shaped, about 4 inches long and about 1 inch wide at the center with rounded ends. They definately looked like magnetite, but were very magnetic. Their shape and magnetism were the basis for the massage use. They were marked as being made of magnetite, but with a lot of "metaphysical" itmes, they could be an stretch of the truth.... Just my 2 cents jeff --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Tue Jul 13 05:51:33 2004 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Tue Jul 13 05:51:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] "chatter stones" Message-ID: <2E4376C6.5F35536F.02180873@aol.com> I am sure they are some sort of synthetic. The degree of magnetic attraction makes me highly suspicious that they have neodymium (spelling?) magnets inside. Futher they do not appear to be magnetic on the surface. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE In a message dated 7/13/2004 12:39:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Bozo5@aol.com writes: >I haven't heard them called that but I can understand why that's fitting: >Take the two apart, hold them about three inches apart and toss them three feet >into the air. ?They come together with a Bbbbuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrpp sound. ?Much >like that last sound a spinning coin makes before stopping. > >I'm very interested in hearing what they are. ?I'm sure they are much too >strong to be natural. ?I'd say they are up there in strength with the magnets >found in computer harddrives, but they have a much harder surface. > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > ?text/plain (text body -- kept) > ?text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Tue Jul 13 06:05:42 2004 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Tue Jul 13 06:05:50 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] "chatter stones" Message-ID: <56178E85.7876968B.02180873@aol.com> Pete: I missed your original post before my first reply. I'm pretty sure we are looking at some sort of composite material encapsulating a neodymium magnet (super magnet). The magnetic attracton on the ones I have is really strong, strong enough to hold the magnets together and support one THROUGH MY FINGERS!!! I know of no other small magnets, except the super magnets, that can do that trick. In addition the outer shell does not appear to be magnetic itself. Test the surface with another known magnet or a piece of iron and you will see what I mean. I looked for a seam on mine and can find none, so it does not appear to be a magnet inserted in a preformed tube. The outer material seems to be some sort of ceramic composite, as it does not appear to be an organic polymer. I would think that any firing of a ceramic would ruin the magnet inside, unless it can be remagnetized. Just how these are made is a mystery to me and I hate to perform a destructive test to figure out what they are. If anyone does know what these are and how they are made I would be very intersted too. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE In a message dated 7/12/2004 11:57:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Peter J. Modreski" writes: >Hi folks at Rockhounds, > >Now here's a good question for you all, perhaps someone among you knows something about this--since we have people who are experts on all sorts of physical phenomena! > >A fellow at work just brought in & showed me two shiny, black, metallic, elongate-elliptical shaped polished stones, and asked me what they were. My instant answer (being a smarty-pants--I won't say the other word) was, "hematite". Then he showed me how they were strong magnets, and stuck strongly together when touched. He says they're sold as "chatter stones". They certainly look like hematite--not like iron metal. I told him that hematite can't be magnetic; that magnetite can, but I don't think I've ever seen any magnetite as strongly magnetic as these are. I told him they are probably man-made, not natural, and definitely not hematite. > >So, I'm puzzling over what they really are made of. Interestingly, the poles of the magnets are not along their long axis, but on the short axis, so they stick together at their midpoints. They don't feel as heavy as iron metal; more like what hematite or magnetite would be, and they are lustrous black, not shiny-metallic like polished iron. ?I tried a streak test--it's kind of indeterminate, kind of a grayish-brown. I've wondered if they could be a strong magnet, encapsulated within hematite? ?I told him I'll try to measure the specific gravity, see if that gives me a clue--see if it matches either hematite, magnetite, or iron.. This will be tricky to do, though, because my balance is probably magnetic! I can measure the volume by immersing it in a graduated cylinder of water, and I'll find a way to measure the mass. > >I did just do the specific gravity measurement; I get a s.g. near 5 (the actual value was 4.7, but that's probably +/- 0.5). ?This is pretty close to matching both hematite and magnetite (both, s.g. near 5.2), and not near as dense as iron metal (7.8). > >Does anyone here have clue or a good guess as to what these are made of, and whether they're natural or synthetic? Do any of our physicists know if it's possible to make magnetic hematite (I can't imagine that it is), or if people have synthesized artificial magnetite that is very strongly magnetized, or any other good ideas about what these things might be made of? ?Some other magnetic compound that does not have a mineral analogue? > >Pete > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > ?text/plain (text body -- kept) > ?text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Tue Jul 13 06:07:55 2004 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Tue Jul 13 06:08:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates Message-ID: <3EA169D5.53694AD2.02180873@aol.com> My wife and I used to regularly hunt fossils on the beach... in November. We visited a fossil fern locality on our honeymoon!!!!!!! Gene Hartstein Newark, DE In a message dated 7/12/2004 10:39:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Gslrocks@aol.com writes: >how about first date to a fluorescent infested apartment and the second to >Franklin NJ for a night dig.. and got to sleep with a large fluorescent specimen >on the bed! > > >Greg Lesinski >GSLROCKS >4726 Porter Center Rd. >Lewiston NY >14092 >Fluorescent minerals, ultraviolet lamps and reference books >website www.gslrocks.com >GSLROCKS@AOL.COM >716-754-9729 > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > ?text/plain (text body -- kept) > ?text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Jul 13 06:14:28 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jul 13 06:14:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates References: <071320040244.25077.40F34C850005F3F9000061F521602813029D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: <002501c468db$572007e0$6402a8c0@axel> > Man, where can I find these women? > > Don You don't find them... you gently persuade the one that is closest to you to fluoresce! How hard can it be since they are already triboluminescent (aren't they, Kreigh).... and remember, spraycans with fluorescent paint are considered as "ungentlemanly". > P.S. In answer to someone else's question, I believe the poet Goethe was a collector (otherwise I can't imagine why they would have named >goethite after him); the semi-famous medieval German prioress Hildegard von Bingen was quite a collector; but then again we can name a number of >people who were involved in the natural sciences who were also collectors; I suppose this list would be more intriguing if we found celebrities who >were otherwise unconnected with the sciences. There was also "Freiherr Xavier Wulfen" if I recall correctly. He's the baron that wulfenite was named after. Much of the 18th and 19 th century royalty and noblemen were mineral collectors. I guess there are more famous people into rockhounding than one should expect. How else can you explain some of the ludicrous prices that some specimens are sold for ;-))))) On the other hand, suppose that we would get a new member on the list, introducing himself as "Hi, I'm Angelina Jolie and I'm new to this list...". Aaron can have only so much monkeys and rabid weasels... Reading Vogon poetry at e-mail harvesters around the clock is not a pleasant pastime. No, I guess that you'd have to be discrete about your hobbies if your famous... Remember the Simpsons cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 4:44 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates > > Man, where can I find these women? > > Don > > P.S. In answer to someone else's question, I believe the poet Goethe was a collector (otherwise I can't imagine why they would have named goethite after him); the semi-famous medieval German prioress Hildegard von Bingen was quite a collector; but then again we can name a number of people who were involved in the natural sciences who were also collectors; I suppose this list would be more intriguing if we found celebrities who were otherwise unconnected with the sciences. > > > > > > My wife is all three as well. How many couples can boast their first date > > was to a rock quarry and a non-commerical cave? Our second date was to an > > old quarry to look for fossil corals. > > > > Alan > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From shm at tapnet.net Tue Jul 13 06:46:37 2004 From: shm at tapnet.net (SHM) Date: Tue Jul 13 06:48:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates In-Reply-To: <40F3408A.7E29@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <001201c468e0$0384bbd0$a4e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Alan Goldstein wrote: > > It would be fun to find out how many famous people collect fossils or > minerals. Obviously many collect gemstones as an investment or to put on > someone else's finger. But those don't count!!! The fellow who played Chester on the old Gunsmoke series was (is?) quite a mineral collector. Last I heard he was building a house with walls made of old tires (and it made sense, too). The patriarch and son of the Oreck family, of vacuum-cleaner fame, are also mineral collectors, and philanthropists as well. The Sterling Hill Mining Museum, where I work, has been the grateful recipient of some very fine pieces that any museum in the world would be proud to display. Imagine a 60-cm Chinese pyromorphite for just one example. And yes, all these minerals ARE on display, in 15 custom-designed glass cases with fiber-optic lighting. It's quite a sight. Cheers- Earl Verbeek From bg at his.com Tue Jul 13 08:02:34 2004 From: bg at his.com (Catherine Gaber) Date: Tue Jul 13 08:02:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] rock city Message-ID: has anyone been to rock city in tennessee? like? dislike?? cathy From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Tue Jul 13 08:07:28 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Tue Jul 13 08:04:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates In-Reply-To: <00d501c46881$b78b5c10$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <200407131504.i6DF4DVA003667@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Our first "overnight" date up to the North Shore saw us going up to the old Agate Mine in Thunder Bay. Dorothy came back with more agate than I did. But we digress... GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Alan Goldstein > Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 9:33 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates > > My wife is all three as well. How many couples can boast > their first date was to a rock quarry and a non-commerical > cave? Our second date was to an old quarry to look for fossil corals. > > Alan From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Tue Jul 13 08:10:50 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Tue Jul 13 08:07:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200407131507.i6DF7XtR004592@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Greg: "and got to sleep with a large fluorescent specimen on the bed!" Uh does that mean you... Ummm, no, don't want to go there. As my kids used to say "Too much information!". . GcB (Geez... Kinda like the 60's, eh? Fluorescent body paint, Jimi on the record player (remember those, kiddies?), strawberry incense.) > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Gslrocks@aol.com > Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 9:40 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates > > how about first date to a fluorescent infested apartment and > the second to Franklin NJ for a night dig.. and got to sleep > with a large fluorescent specimen on the bed! > > > Greg Lesinski From libawc at emory.edu Tue Jul 13 08:20:57 2004 From: libawc at emory.edu (Anita Westlake) Date: Tue Jul 13 08:21:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] rock city In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003d01c468ed$00b471e0$d6be8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> Been there. Loved it! Trying to squeeze through "Fat Man's Squeeze" was fun (and a little scary). I guess no one has ever gotten stuck there permanently because I didn't see any skeletons lodged between the boulders! Anita -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Catherine Gaber Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 11:03 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] rock city has anyone been to rock city in tennessee? like? dislike?? cathy _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Jul 13 08:59:00 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Jul 13 08:59:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] famous people's rocks, etc. Message-ID: <071320041559.26080.40F406C400000D81000065E0216037596407059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Earl and Rockhounds folks, as I'm sure you know, Earl, the Oreck family has also donated a number of superb specimens to the Colorado School of Mines Geology Museum. Last summer that museum moved into an excellent new building, and anyone who is passing through Denver/Golden should make a point to stop and see it. The new museum is on two floors, a high, open main floor room, well let both by daylight and artificial lighting, with excellent display cases and specimens. The lower level features well designed educational displays (physical properties of minerals, state rocks & minerals, birthstones, radioactive minerals, gems, fossils, etc.), and the top floor has the "really good" minerals, with some displays featuring rhodochrosite, Colorado minerals, Colorado silver, etc. It's open 9-4 daily (closed Sundays during the summer, otherwise 1-4 Sundays), and is located on the CSM campus in Golden, at 13th and Maple Streets, about 3 blocks north of the old museum location. ---Pete Modreski > The patriarch and son of the Oreck family, of vacuum-cleaner fame, are also > mineral collectors, and philanthropists as well. The Sterling Hill Mining > Museum, where I work, has been the grateful recipient of some very fine > pieces that any museum in the world would be proud to display. Imagine a > 60-cm Chinese pyromorphite for just one example. And yes, all these > minerals ARE on display, in 15 custom-designed glass cases with fiber-optic > lighting. It's quite a sight. > > Cheers- Earl Verbeek --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Jul 13 09:01:42 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Jul 13 09:01:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] famous people's rocks, etc. Message-ID: <071320041601.29064.40F407660001CD0000007188216037596407059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> P.S., I should have added, that admission to the CSM museum is free. And it's well lit, not well let. Pete --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Jul 13 09:09:44 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Jul 13 09:09:49 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] "chatter stones" Message-ID: <071320041609.6525.40F40947000A0DC60000197D216037596407059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> The ones my coworker here has most be the smaller size, not the industrial massage size, they are about 2.5 inches long and 5/8 inch in diameter. I'm not sure I can tell whether or not all parts of them are magnetic--a magnet seems to be attracted to (or repelled by) all portions of them, just more strongly toward the center. I agree that the most likely thing seems to be some kind of strong magnet, contained within a hard, polished iron-rich ceramic coating fabricated around them. Interesting! Pete << Pete, you did not say how big these were, but during a visit to a local bead > store Saturday, I saw sets of stones used for massage. There were oval > shaped, about 4 inches long and about 1 inch wide at the center with rounded > ends. > They definately looked like magnetite, but were very magnetic. Their shape > and magnetism were the basis for the massage use. They were marked as being > made of magnetite, but with a lot of "metaphysical" itmes, they could be an > stretch of the truth.... jeff --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From asgardsgc at earthlink.net Tue Jul 13 09:50:29 2004 From: asgardsgc at earthlink.net (Mark Easterbrook) Date: Tue Jul 13 09:50:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates Message-ID: <33256389.1089737429224.JavaMail.root@misspiggy.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Trekker? -----Original Message----- From: Gary Brown Sent: Jul 13, 2004 11:10 AM To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates Greg: "and got to sleep with a large fluorescent specimen on the bed!" Uh does that mean you... Ummm, no, don't want to go there. As my kids used to say "Too much information!". . GcB (Geez... Kinda like the 60's, eh? Fluorescent body paint, Jimi on the record player (remember those, kiddies?), strawberry incense.) > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Gslrocks@aol.com > Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 9:40 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates > > how about first date to a fluorescent infested apartment and > the second to Franklin NJ for a night dig.. and got to sleep > with a large fluorescent specimen on the bed! > > > Greg Lesinski _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Jul 13 09:56:57 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jul 13 09:56:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates References: <200407131507.i6DF7XtR004592@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <004d01c468fa$6ca434f0$6402a8c0@axel> > "and got to sleep with a large fluorescent specimen on the bed!" and woke up with a sunburn if the fluorescence was due to a shortwave UV-lamp. The reason I mention this: We were once asked to assemble specimens for a display in the "Ecole des Mines", which belongs to the Sorbonne in Paris (not Texas). We being the European FMS branch and the fluophelic MKA-members. One of our group was a manufacturer of sunbeds. He, being close to the source of knowlegde and technology, had made himself a SW-lamp that was the great grandmother of all short wave lamps. It consisted of a quartz serpentine of at least a meter that was filled with an exotic mixture of mercury, deuterium, argon and some salts... all very hush hush... Anyway, this was a BAD lamp... correction, it was the WORST lamp ever. If you turned over a rock that was under that lamp your hand and wrist would turn red and begin to itch instantanously and the ozone layer runneth over... Now, this guy (bald as Yul Brunner) was so enthusiastic about the idea of participating in a foreign display, that he forgot all safety measures... He went home, put his superlamp on a floodlight stand and sat down on the floor with his boxes of specimens.... under the bright UV of his "indoor sun". I was told by some friends who visited him in the hospital that he had a somewhat strange complexion. > Uh does that mean you... Ummm, no, don't want to go there. As my kids used > to say "Too much information!". . Mine yell "enough already!!! Now we get images that will haunt us forever..." Cheers Axel From kqhayes at chartermi.net Tue Jul 13 10:33:40 2004 From: kqhayes at chartermi.net (Keith Q Hayes) Date: Tue Jul 13 10:35:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] CSM display. In-Reply-To: <071320041559.26080.40F406C400000D81000065E0216037596407059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: I visited the new CSM display about 2 months ago for the first time. It was very impressive and well worth the trip. Lots of large eye candy that one does not see often. Go visit it! Best Regards, Keith Hayes www.kqminerals.com kqhayes@chartermi.net 3705 Fuller Drive Midland, MI 48642 -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of pjmodreski@att.net Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 11:59 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] famous people's rocks, etc. Earl and Rockhounds folks, as I'm sure you know, Earl, the Oreck family has also donated a number of superb specimens to the Colorado School of Mines Geology Museum. Last summer that museum moved into an excellent new building, and anyone who is passing through Denver/Golden should make a point to stop and see it. The new museum is on two floors, a high, open main floor room, well let both by daylight and artificial lighting, with excellent display cases and specimens. The lower level features well designed educational displays (physical properties of minerals, state rocks & minerals, birthstones, radioactive minerals, gems, fossils, etc.), and the top floor has the "really good" minerals, with some displays featuring rhodochrosite, Colorado minerals, Colorado silver, etc. It's open 9-4 daily (closed Sundays during the summer, otherwise 1-4 Sundays), and is located on the CSM campus in Golden, at 13th and Maple Streets, about 3 blocks north of the old museum location. ---Pete Modreski > The patriarch and son of the Oreck family, of vacuum-cleaner fame, are also > mineral collectors, and philanthropists as well. The Sterling Hill Mining > Museum, where I work, has been the grateful recipient of some very fine > pieces that any museum in the world would be proud to display. Imagine a > 60-cm Chinese pyromorphite for just one example. And yes, all these > minerals ARE on display, in 15 custom-designed glass cases with fiber-optic > lighting. It's quite a sight. > > Cheers- Earl Verbeek --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Jul 13 10:54:28 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jul 13 10:54:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Clams, and phosphorescence References: <40EEE029.90209@tenforward.com><005701c46758$14cbcca0$7da5490c@pete><000a01c46759$4718e2a0$6401a8c0@Junior> <000401c467e7$42348120$c33f27c4@privatehome> Message-ID: <006601c46902$76460d50$6402a8c0@axel> We have a scheelite locality in the east of Belgium... The SW lamp can indeed fool you since the moss that grows on the rocks may fluoresce bluish white... Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Horst Windisch" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 8:58 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Clams, and phosphorescence > When the second World War broke out, the British Government requested all > its Commonwealth countries and colonies to prospect for tungsten mineral to > aid their war effort. > In South Africa, prospecting then was carried out in the Namaqualand Region > (Springbok being the largest town in the area). As scheelite fluoresces a > bluish-white it was easily recognisable, but in the veld two other objects > fluoresce the same colour - scorpions and bird droppings. Thus prospectors > were sometimes fooled! > > Horst > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Jokela Jr." > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 5:10 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Clams, and phosphorescence > > > > Scorpions fluoresce. I heard that in some third world country they found > > cheap UV lites to be very handy to inspect the inside and outside of their > > huts with and kill any they find, cutting down on infants getting stung > and > > seriously hurt or killed. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Peter J. Modreski" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 11:02 AM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Clams, and phosphorescence > > > > > > > [No, these are two unrelated topics, that evolved from the same original > > > post--not connected at all!] > > > > > > Pete's last comment about those big ol' clams... > > > > > > John, as I recall the end of your story said that when you cooked 'em > up, > > > they were a bit tough but tasted good. I guess my comment--not being a > > > serious clam freak, are those things REALLY good enough tasting to be > > worth > > > cooking and eating such a gross-looking critter? I can think of lots of > > > other good-tasting things that aren't tough and chewy. I think maybe > I'll > > > just stick to hot dogs when I want "tasty" and beef jerky when I want > > > "chewy". > > > > > > And now to the phosphorescence. When recently leading a little > after-dark > > > field trip with black lights for a science teachers group, to an old > > > fluorite mine near Jamestown CO, on our walk back through the woods, we > > saw > > > (as we had last year when I led the same excursion), several > "glow-worms", > > > insect larvae just sitting there on rocks or twigs, glowing a bright, > > vivid > > > green. I've only seen such things a couple of times in my life--here, > and > > > once in New Mexico. Interesting, both times were when I had been > looking > > > for fl. minerals after dark; I think it's because that's one of the few > > > times one is likely to be walking around in the dark, without any lights > > on, > > > and paying careful attention to what's on the ground. The glow-worms > just > > > sit there displaying their continuous, bright green bioluminescence, > just > > > like you were shining a UV light on a speck of very bright willemite or > > > hyalite--but, no UV light required! (I guess some day, I should figure > > out > > > exactly what type & species or whatever, of insect larva this is, that > > glows > > > this way. They are tiny, I'd say maybe 1/4 inch long. > > > > > > cheers (or as Don Newsome always said or says, "Keep on glowing!) > > > Pete Modreski > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From Rocknlight at aol.com Tue Jul 13 11:30:46 2004 From: Rocknlight at aol.com (Rocknlight@aol.com) Date: Tue Jul 13 11:30:54 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates Message-ID: Dear Trekers ?? Um and my kids .... PLEASE PLEASE...... Whenever the subject matter has changed and drifted away from the original thread, CHANGE the subject matter T i t l e Pillow Tooth Fairy and Amalgam of Mercury Argon would be a good title.. Just my 2ooth-fairy cents worth LOL : ) RnL --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tjokela at execulink.com Tue Jul 13 11:56:58 2004 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Tue Jul 13 11:57:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] "chatter stones" References: <071320041609.6525.40F40947000A0DC60000197D216037596407059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <001301c4690b$2cc87d30$6401a8c0@Junior> Will somebody please hit one with a hammer? The suspense is killing me! I've never seen these things, and don't know if they're expensive or what; if they are then please just ignore the above. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] "chatter stones" > The ones my coworker here has most be the smaller size, not the industrial massage size, they are about 2.5 inches long and 5/8 inch in diameter. > > I'm not sure I can tell whether or not all parts of them are magnetic--a magnet seems to be attracted to (or repelled by) all portions of them, just more strongly toward the center. > > I agree that the most likely thing seems to be some kind of strong magnet, contained within a hard, polished iron-rich ceramic coating fabricated around them. Interesting! > > Pete > > << makes me highly suspicious that they have neodymium (spelling?) magnets inside. > Futher they do not appear to be magnetic on the surface. > Gene Hartstein > > -------------- Original message from BNMJEFF@aol.com: -------------- > > Pete, you did not say how big these were, but during a visit to a local bead > > store Saturday, I saw sets of stones used for massage. There were oval > > shaped, about 4 inches long and about 1 inch wide at the center with rounded > > ends. > > They definately looked like magnetite, but were very magnetic. Their shape > > and magnetism were the basis for the massage use. They were marked as being > > made of magnetite, but with a lot of "metaphysical" itmes, they could be an > > stretch of the truth.... > jeff > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Lapadary at aol.com Tue Jul 13 12:05:14 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Tue Jul 13 12:05:19 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] "chatter stones" Message-ID: In a message dated 7/13/04 11:57:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time, tjokela@execulink.com writes: I've never seen these things, and don't know if they're expensive or what; if they are then please just ignore the above. ------------------------ The ones I saw selling at a Bluegrass Music festival were only $10. I think they were small balls, about the size of a large grape or small plum. Grant Johnston --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Jul 13 12:09:54 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Jul 13 12:09:57 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] "chatter stones" Message-ID: <071320041909.25152.40F43381000BE32D00006240216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> FYI to all interested, I found (or rather, re-found) some good information about the "chatter stones". Here are two messages that were posted on the Mineralogical Society of America email listserver back in March, in a discussion about hematite. So apparently, there is no magnet inside, but the magnetic material is disseminated throughout this synthetic hematite. sincerely, Pete from Rock Currier, 3/17/2004, I may be able to add something of interest concerning the Brazilian hematite that is used for lapidary purposes, and the synthetic "hematite" that is currently being used in China for jewelry purposes and the new "singing magnets" that are also being produced in China. Much if not most of the "hematite" jewelry that is being produced in China is not hematite. Most of the Chinese selling this material if pressed will admit that it is not hematite but "hematine". I have long suspected that it is synthetic ferrite which is somewhat confirmed by the note in Lapis magazine. I have a Chinese supplier who sells me bracelets and necklaces made from this material so cheaply that I you would not believe it. I ran some quick streak tests and suspected that the material was not hematite and grilled him on just what it was that he was selling us. At first he said the material was "hematine" but further grilling indicated it was a "waste product from a steel mill" Later it developed that he was part owner in the factory that was making the stuff and also the new "singing magnets" that were being sold at the Munich and Tucson shows. He says that they get the powder from the "steel mill" press it into whatever shape they want and fire it like a ceramic. If they want it to be magnetic them mix something with it, perhaps barium or cerium oxides? before it is fired. After it is fired it is put in a device and magnetized. He said he thought his was one of two companies in China that were making this magnetic material. A lot of this is getting into proprietary commercial information which he is understandably reluctant to talk about. Right now this part of the business, especially the new "singing magnets" are red hot and some venders are trying to lock up all near future production so they can be exclusive outlets for a hot selling and very profitable item. Five to ten time mark ups. from Rik Dillen, 3/17/2004, The material is a ferrite, which is a dual oxide of e.g. Ba and Fe, or Sr and Fe. Examples are strontian ferrite and ferroxdure, SrFe12O19 resp. BaFe12O19. This material is NOT hematite, and is is indeed purely synthetic. It is not a waste product from the steel production, but one of the compounds they make it from is. After hot rolling steel sheet has to be pickled to remove the oxide layer (which is between 10 and 50 µm thick) from its surface. Untill the sixties this was done in sulphuric acid, but nowadays it is done with hot (about 60°C) hydrochloric acid, either in very large acid-proof basins (containing many TONS of hydrochloric acid !) or, in modern steel plants, by jet spraying hot acid on the surface. By this process iron oxide is dissolved, and becomes eventually more or less saturated in iron chloride. The acid iron chloride solution is than recycled with a very high yield in e.g. a "Rüthner regeneration" process : after some purification steps the solution is sprayed in an oxygen-rich furnace, where it is decomposed in hydrochloric acid GAS, and iron oxide powder. The hydrochloric gas is condensed with water and used again in the pickling process, and the iron oxide formed, which is very pure hematite (mostly less than 200 ppm impurities) is sold to the ferrite industry to produce the Ba-, Sr, and many other ferrite products mentioned above. A steel factory like ours produces around 10-20 000 tons of that type of iron oxide a year (at a production rate of 4 000 000 tons of sheet steel). 30 years ago the steel companies had to pay to get rid of the oxide as a waste product, nowadays we get something in the order of magnitude of 300-400 euro (400-500 dollar) a ton, which is quite substantial. The main applications of the ferrites produced are in the electronics industry, but it is also used in cosmetics (facial powders etc.), dyes and many other products. Anyway, the material those Chinese gentlemen are keeping secrets about, is a normal, regular industrial product that they will never be able to claim in whatever form. The magnetic toys are only a small spin-off of the real use of the product range in question. I hope to have clarified a bit the connection between the magnets, hematite and the steel industry. Best regards, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15 B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be Tue Jul 13 12:15:02 2004 From: herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be (herwig pelckmans) Date: Tue Jul 13 12:16:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: "chatter stones" => Chinese power magnets Message-ID: <014301c4690d$b311dc40$33a0e0d5@pandora.be> Hope this one gets through ... Herwig Pelckmans Worldwide Mineral Collector Cardijnstraat 12 B-3530 Helchteren Belgium Europe http://www.xlizd.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "herwig pelckmans" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 9:12 PM Subject: Re: "chatter stones" => Chinese power magnets > Hi all, > > These "chatter stones" have been written up in Lapis magazine (Vol 29#1, p. > 39). > In general they are called "Chinese power magnets". > They were first sold at the 2003 Munich Show and were quite popular (70 000 > sold in 1 day!). > They are indeed SYNTHETIC: made of ground hematite that is sintered under > high pressure (500 tons) & extreme heat while residing in a magnetic field. > They are indeed extremely magnetic and as such should have "healing powers" > ... > Anyway, do take care while handling these, and keep them away from watches, > mobile phones, hard disks etc... or these might in fact be "healed" by the > strong magnetism !! > > Cheers, Herwig > > Herwig Pelckmans > Worldwide Mineral Collector > Cardijnstraat 12 > B-3530 Helchteren > Belgium Europe > http://www.xlizd.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Jokela Jr." > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 8:56 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] "chatter stones" > > > > Will somebody please hit one with a hammer? The suspense is killing me! > > > > I've never seen these things, and don't know if they're expensive or what; > > if they are then please just ignore the above. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Jul 13 12:28:25 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Jul 13 12:28:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: "chatter stones" => Chinese power magnets Message-ID: <071320041928.12596.40F437D8000A539600003134216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Thanks, Herwig, for the added info! Pete -------------- Original message from "herwig pelckmans" : -------------- > Hope this one gets through ... > > Herwig Pelckmans > Worldwide Mineral Collector > Cardijnstraat 12 > B-3530 Helchteren > Belgium Europe > http://www.xlizd.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "herwig pelckmans" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 9:12 PM > Subject: Re: "chatter stones" => Chinese power magnets > > > > Hi all, > > > > These "chatter stones" have been written up in Lapis magazine (Vol 29#1, > p. 39). > > In general they are called "Chinese power magnets". ... --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rik.dillen at skynet.be Tue Jul 13 13:22:11 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Tue Jul 13 13:23:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] "chatter stones" In-Reply-To: <071320041909.25152.40F43381000BE32D00006240216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <000401c46917$179791b0$2aaac950@maxdata> Just a minor correction : it is not magnetic material DISSEMINATED in hematite, but e.g. bariumferrite is a definite chemical compound, with as formula BaFe12O19. The product bariumferrite AS SUCH is highly magnetic. So it is not a mixture, but a real compound, man-made from hematite as starting product. Another such mangetic compound is strontiumferrite SrFe12O19. These products are used in numerous applications in the electronics industry (core memory elements, speaker magnets, magnetic recording devices, tapes etc.). Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15 B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of *pjmodreski@att.net *Sent: dinsdag 13 juli 2004 21:10 *To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors *Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] "chatter stones" * * *FYI to all interested, I found (or rather, re-found) some good *information about the "chatter stones". Here are two messages *that were posted on the Mineralogical Society of America email *listserver back in March, in a discussion about hematite. * *So apparently, there is no magnet inside, but the magnetic *material is disseminated throughout this synthetic hematite. * *sincerely, Pete * *from Rock Currier, 3/17/2004, *I may be able to add something of interest concerning the *Brazilian hematite that is used for lapidary purposes, and the *synthetic "hematite" that is currently being used in China for *jewelry purposes and the new "singing magnets" that are also *being produced in China. Much if not most of the "hematite" *jewelry that is being produced in China is not hematite. Most *of the Chinese selling this material if pressed will admit *that it is not hematite but "hematine". I have long suspected *that it is synthetic ferrite which is somewhat confirmed by *the note in Lapis magazine. I have a Chinese supplier who *sells me bracelets and necklaces made from this material so *cheaply that I you would not believe it. I ran some quick *streak tests and suspected that the material was not hematite *and grilled him on just what it was that he was selling us. At *first he said the material was "hematine" but further grilling *indicated it was a "waste product from a steel mill" Later it *developed that he was part owner in the factory that was *making the stuff and also the new "singing magnets" that were *being sold at the Munich and Tucson shows. He says that they *get the powder from the "steel mill" press it into whatever *shape they want and fire it like a ceramic. I! f they want it *to be magnetic them mix something with it, perhaps barium or *cerium oxides? before it is fired. After it is fired it is put *in a device and magnetized. He said he thought his was one of *two companies in China that were making this magnetic *material. A lot of this is getting into proprietary commercial *information which he is understandably reluctant to talk *about. Right now this part of the business, especially the new *"singing magnets" are red hot and some venders are trying to *lock up all near future production so they can be exclusive *outlets for a hot selling and very profitable item. Five to *ten time mark ups. * *from Rik Dillen, 3/17/2004, *The material is a ferrite, which is a dual oxide of e.g. Ba *and Fe, or Sr and Fe. Examples are strontian ferrite and *ferroxdure, SrFe12O19 resp. BaFe12O19. This material is NOT *hematite, and is is indeed purely synthetic. It is not a waste *product from the steel production, but one of the compounds *they make it from is. After hot rolling steel sheet has to be *pickled to remove the oxide layer (which is between 10 and 50 *?m thick) from its surface. Untill the sixties this was done *in sulphuric acid, but nowadays it is done with hot (about *60?C) hydrochloric acid, either in very large acid-proof *basins (containing many TONS of hydrochloric acid !) or, in *modern steel plants, by jet spraying hot acid on the surface. *By this process iron oxide is dissolved, and becomes *eventually more or less saturated in iron chloride. The acid *iron chloride solution is than recycled with a very high yield *in e.g. a "R?thner regeneration" process : after some *purification steps the solution is sprayed in an oxygen-rich *furnace, where it is decomposed in hydrochloric acid GAS, and *iron oxide powder. The hydrochloric gas is condensed with *water and used again in the pickling process, and the iron *oxide formed, which is very pure hematite (mostly less than *200 ppm impurities) is sold to the ferrite industry to pr! *oduce the Ba-, Sr, and many other ferrite products mentioned *above. A steel factory like ours produces around 10-20 000 *tons of that type of iron oxide a year (at a production rate *of 4 000 000 tons of sheet steel). 30 years ago the steel *companies had to pay to get rid of the oxide as a waste *product, nowadays we get something in the order of magnitude *of 300-400 euro (400-500 dollar) a ton, which is quite *substantial. The main applications of the ferrites produced *are in the electronics industry, but it is also used in *cosmetics (facial powders etc.), dyes and many other products. *Anyway, the material those Chinese gentlemen are keeping *secrets about, is a normal, regular industrial product that *they will never be able to claim in whatever form. The *magnetic toys are only a small spin-off of the real use of the *product range in question. I hope to have clarified a bit the *connection between the magnets, hematite and the steel *industry. Best regards, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15 B-9170 *Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium * *--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative * text/plain (text body -- kept) * text/html *--- *_______________________________________________ *Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List *WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds *Subscription Services: *http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds * * From tjokela at execulink.com Tue Jul 13 15:29:35 2004 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Tue Jul 13 15:29:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Careers in Science References: <008a01c467b5$3cd39fe0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose><40F2021D.472@Tomaszewski.net> <006001c46814$0a0b16b0$5df64342@nathanqa8gl7gx> Message-ID: <000e01c46928$e04e4250$6401a8c0@Junior> http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/ This is absolutely hilarious. The thin-skinned or easily offended should flame the author, not me, btw. Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Jul 13 16:01:08 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Jul 13 16:01:10 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] "chatter stones" Message-ID: <071320042301.10159.40F469B4000275D3000027AF216037631607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Rik, I had concluded (perhaps incorrectly) from what you wrote, that the "power magnets" were mostly Fe2O3, with only a small proportion of barium or other oxides mixed in, to produce some modest proportion of compounds such as BaFe12O19 in a matrix that was still mostly hematite. So, perhaps that was an incorrect understanding on my part, and what you meant was that enough Ba or Sr is added, so that the whole mass of material has the composition of BaFe12O19. I stand corrected! Pete --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From davisj at earthlink.net Tue Jul 13 22:05:17 2004 From: davisj at earthlink.net (Joe Davis) Date: Tue Jul 13 22:05:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Legitimacy? In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.2.20040710130254.02a568d8@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: You can still get maps from Mary at her shop in Prineville --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) message/rfc822 --- From tim at orerockon.com Wed Jul 14 07:47:36 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Jul 14 07:47:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Legitimacy? In-Reply-To: References: <6.1.1.1.2.20040710130254.02a568d8@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.2.20040714074644.01e56a90@mail.spiritone.com> If you mean Judy Elkins then yes, and also at Quant's. My point was that the C of C has stopped promoting rockhounding around Prinevile. At 10:05 PM 7/13/2004, you wrote: >You can still get maps from Mary at her shop in Prineville Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From Ted at crystalgems.com Wed Jul 14 09:21:21 2004 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted) Date: Wed Jul 14 09:21:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates In-Reply-To: <200407131504.i6DF4DVA003667@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <006101c469be$9a2ed640$0200a8c0@gametime> On our honeymoon 20 some years ago, I took my wife to the Crater of Diamonds state park in Murfreesboro to look for a better diamond. We didn't find one, but she loved visiting Hot Springs afterwards and taking in their hot baths and massage. We did visit a number of rock stands and shops around Murfreesboro and Mt. Ida and came home with our suitcases bulging at the seams and slightly overweight at the airline counter Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Gary Brown Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 11:07 AM To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates Our first "overnight" date up to the North Shore saw us going up to the old Agate Mine in Thunder Bay. Dorothy came back with more agate than I did. But we digress... GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Alan Goldstein > Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 9:33 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates > > My wife is all three as well. How many couples can boast > their first date was to a rock quarry and a non-commerical > cave? Our second date was to an old quarry to look for fossil corals. > > Alan _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Jul 14 10:28:19 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Jul 14 10:28:41 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates References: <006101c469be$9a2ed640$0200a8c0@gametime> Message-ID: <000d01c469c7$f7f5b560$6402a8c0@axel> Our honeymoon was in the pre-MKA era but I was already into fluorescence. My first find of fluorescent mineral was found on a long walk through the Habachtal in Austria. http://www.minerant.org/photo/fluoE.html# , tenth row, first column: Talc.... I was a "rockpuppie" rather than a rockhound then ;-))) Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted" To: ; "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 6:21 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates On our honeymoon 20 some years ago, I took my wife to the Crater of Diamonds state park in Murfreesboro to look for a better diamond. We didn't find one, but she loved visiting Hot Springs afterwards and taking in their hot baths and massage. We did visit a number of rock stands and shops around Murfreesboro and Mt. Ida and came home with our suitcases bulging at the seams and slightly overweight at the airline counter Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Gary Brown Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 11:07 AM To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates Our first "overnight" date up to the North Shore saw us going up to the old Agate Mine in Thunder Bay. Dorothy came back with more agate than I did. But we digress... GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Alan Goldstein > Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 9:33 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates > > My wife is all three as well. How many couples can boast > their first date was to a rock quarry and a non-commerical > cave? Our second date was to an old quarry to look for fossil corals. > > Alan _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at aloha.net Wed Jul 14 10:57:45 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Jul 14 10:31:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates In-Reply-To: <000d01c469c7$f7f5b560$6402a8c0@axel> References: <006101c469be$9a2ed640$0200a8c0@gametime> <000d01c469c7$f7f5b560$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040714075628.02f95960@mail.aloha.net> At 07:28 AM 7/14/2004, you wrote: >I was a "rockpuppie" rather than a rockhound then ;-))) >Axel The term I've seen is "pebble pup." Kitty From howbout4 at netnitco.net Wed Jul 14 13:36:19 2004 From: howbout4 at netnitco.net (Joan Mammarella) Date: Wed Jul 14 13:45:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collection locations on Trip References: <40ED7011.2080600@rcn.com> Message-ID: <000701c469e2$38acf180$d56d0b42@jlmbase> Fred, The regular address for the Kentland Quarry is 235 East U.S. Hwy.24 and they have a web site and an e-mail address www.rogersgroupinc.com sward@rogersgroupinc.com Joan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Olmstead" To: Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 11:02 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Collection locations on Trip > For a trip to Sand Fest 2004, I will be traveling from Arlington, > Virginia, to the Sand Dunes area of Indiana, and returning via > Cincinnati, Ohio. The route generally will be I-270 to I -70 (in > Maryland), proceeding west to I-68, through MD, WVA, and into Ohio, > returning to I-70, and continuing west into Indiana. Prior to reaching > Indianapolis, we will turn north (not yet sure of routing), to proceed > to Sand Dunes area. > > The return will take us from Sand Dunes to Cincinnati, and return from > Cincinnati to Arlington, probably via US 50. > > Can anyone suggest good collecting sites not too far off the route > sketched out above? Would they be public or private lands? Are there > any difficulties regarding access? > > Many thanks for any help. > > G. Olmstead > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Wed Jul 14 19:12:21 2004 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Wed Jul 14 19:14:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Phosphorescence & flourescence References: <200407131902.i6DJ2fio023015@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <002901c46a11$2b1b1540$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> My experience with phophorescence in nature (aside from millions of lightning bugs) goes back to a childhood fishing trip at Gulf Shores, Alabama circa 1958. Several of my cousins and I were treated to the overnight trip to the then new fishing pier by an older cousin who had a driver's license. It was already dark when we arrived but the water was aglow. Every ripple and wave presented its own lightshow! We were excited to try our luck and each cast resulted in splashes and trails of the BRIGHT GREEN GLOW! Pretty soon we noticed that we could see trails made by fish swimming close to and under the pier! We didn't catch much but were well rewarded by the experience, although at the time we thought this was probably a very ordinary occurrance. I've only seen this one other time and that was while fishing off a motel pier one night in Key Largo in 1970. With minerals, I've only known about this phenomenon for a couple of years. Jeanette & I "collected" some stuff from a sale pile at Rock Pick Legends rock shop in Salt Lake City. The owner checked our choices with his UV light and we had unknowingly picked up a fair number that flouresced, some in LW and others in SW, plus some that glowed in both. He was very helpful and gave us a great price on our specimens. This was just one more step in our progression as amateur 'hounds and we look forward to lots more. We're headed to that area again in August for one our daughters' wedding to a great young man from Missouri who is in the stone countertop business! Glenn Wimpee Irvington, Alabama From MCGINNISG at aol.com Wed Jul 14 20:57:08 2004 From: MCGINNISG at aol.com (MCGINNISG@aol.com) Date: Wed Jul 14 20:57:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Labradorite vs. Spectrolite Message-ID: <195.2beac1d3.2e275a94@aol.com> Labradorite vs. Spectrolite. I realize that Spectrolite is from Finland but is there any way to distinguish it from Labradorite that is from other areas of the world? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny at lrream.com Wed Jul 14 23:06:23 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Wed Jul 14 23:05:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick Message-ID: <19372BEF-D625-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> It's time to liven things up a bit. I'm getting tired of glow worms, the moon and other things non-earthly mineral related. So, here is another free book. I meant to get this one out of here back in the time of St. Patricks day, but due to the move and all the time-wasting crap related to that over the past three months, it didn't get done. The book is "The Mineral Kingdom" by Paul E. Desautels. It is good book, light on technical info with a chapter on just about every aspect of minerals, lots of color and b&w photos, 251 pages. Hardcover/cloth bound. I read it once, and it's just not that much use on my book shelf anymore (and considering that my bookshelf is a lot smaller than it used to be, some things have to go). So, the deal is, respond to this message (to the list so that everyone else can hate me for disturbing their day or love me for bringing them thousands of wonderful limericks) with an original limerick, written by you, that has something to do with minerals. They don't have to be tasteful, just what most people would consider acceptable to a family forum. The book goes to the person who sends in the one I like best, plus pays $3.00 s&h (more if out of the USA or Canada). You have until Wednesday (July 21). I am waiting for a phone call providing permission for a friend and I to visit a mine in south central Idaho, and if that happens to be around that time, then selection of the winner will be delayed a few days. (If per chance the winner does not want that book but would prefer one of these two: "Electron Microprobe Analysis, Second Edition" by S. J. B. Reed, 1993 or "Applied Mineral Inventory Estimation" by A. J. Sinclair and G. H. Blackwell 2002, then he or she can so choose.) I'm waiting. Entertain me. Lanny From dguin at earthlink.net Thu Jul 15 00:31:54 2004 From: dguin at earthlink.net (Dave Guin) Date: Thu Jul 15 00:31:49 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick In-Reply-To: <19372BEF-D625-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> References: <19372BEF-D625-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <40F632EA.4090205@earthlink.net> Lanny wrote: > > > I'm waiting. Entertain me. There once was a rockhound named Lanny Who pursued rocks in a way most uncanny Though he sought specimens fine In each quarry or mine He'd spend most of the day on his fanny Peace, dave From Rocknlight at aol.com Thu Jul 15 01:01:59 2004 From: Rocknlight at aol.com (Rocknlight@aol.com) Date: Thu Jul 15 01:02:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Labradorite vs. Spectrolite Message-ID: <1c6.1bc68e6c.2e2793f7@aol.com> It's late but I'll try I have seen both varieties up close and own some myself. I suppose it can be somewhat explained by comparing it to Fluorite... There is top grade fluorite and lower grade fluorite, from many locations.. Most likely you've seen both and know what I mean ? Good Finnish spectrolite has many sharp colors and patterns, which can be seen from almost any angle... Most labradorite cannot compare to top grade Spectrolite in colors, patterns and multiple angles of such.. There is some top A grade labradorite that rivals B grade spectrolite Others will have better ideas and facts Good Luck --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at aloha.net Thu Jul 15 01:41:33 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Jul 15 01:15:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick In-Reply-To: <19372BEF-D625-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> References: <19372BEF-D625-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040714222123.03e183f0@mail.aloha.net> Here's a repeat of what I sent regarding Axel a while ago. Can I submit another one, or do you limit the number of entries? :) There once was a Belgian quintessence Of most ludicrous effervescence; Wielding cow right and left, He foiled moon-rock theft, Then went back to his own rocks' fluorescence. So here's Axel Emmerman's epitaph: He helped nab those rock-thieving riffraff; Though he earned world-wide fame For his FBI game, Best of all he made lots of people laugh. Aloha, Kitty At 08:06 PM 7/14/2004, you wrote: >...So, the deal is, respond to this message (to the list so that everyone >else can hate me for disturbing their day or love me for bringing them >thousands of wonderful limericks) with an original limerick, written by >you, that has something to do with minerals. They don't have to be >tasteful, just what most people would consider acceptable to a family >forum. The book goes to the person who sends in the one I like best, plus >pays $3.00 s&h (more if out of the USA or Canada). From magnet at crocoite.com Thu Jul 15 04:27:14 2004 From: magnet at crocoite.com (magnet) Date: Thu Jul 15 04:26:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick Message-ID: <20040715112714.11490.qmail@webmachine101.com> There's too "manny" things rhyme with Lanny There's canny, UN-canny, and fanny I tried once before Won a book, that's for sure So I'll stuff up the last line and make sure someone else wins this time! Regards Steve --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From LarryRush at worldnet.att.net Thu Jul 15 05:59:48 2004 From: LarryRush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Thu Jul 15 06:01:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick References: <19372BEF-D625-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <000a01c46a6b$9f1ded00$5e8b4c0c@fekib> Lanny: I already have the book, but I have some original rockhound limericks posted on my site that you might enjoy: www.connroxminerals.com Larry Rush ----- Original Message ----- From: Lanny To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com : A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 2:06 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick It's time to liven things up a bit. I'm getting tired of glow worms, the moon and other things non-earthly mineral related. So, here is another free book. I meant to get this one out of here back in the time of St. Patricks day, but due to the move and all the time-wasting crap related to that over the past three months, it didn't get done. The book is "The Mineral Kingdom" by Paul E. Desautels. It is good book, light on technical info with a chapter on just about every aspect of minerals, lots of color and b&w photos, 251 pages. Hardcover/cloth bound. I read it once, and it's just not that much use on my book shelf anymore (and considering that my bookshelf is a lot smaller than it used to be, some things have to go). So, the deal is, respond to this message (to the list so that everyone else can hate me for disturbing their day or love me for bringing them thousands of wonderful limericks) with an original limerick, written by you, that has something to do with minerals. They don't have to be tasteful, just what most people would consider acceptable to a family forum. The book goes to the person who sends in the one I like best, plus pays $3.00 s&h (more if out of the USA or Canada). You have until Wednesday (July 21). I am waiting for a phone call providing permission for a friend and I to visit a mine in south central Idaho, and if that happens to be around that time, then selection of the winner will be delayed a few days. (If per chance the winner does not want that book but would prefer one of these two: "Electron Microprobe Analysis, Second Edition" by S. J. B. Reed, 1993 or "Applied Mineral Inventory Estimation" by A. J. Sinclair and G. H. Blackwell 2002, then he or she can so choose.) I'm waiting. Entertain me. Lanny _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From newryqs at rochester.rr.com Thu Jul 15 06:15:42 2004 From: newryqs at rochester.rr.com (Van) Date: Thu Jul 15 06:16:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Labradorite vs. Spectrolite References: <1c6.1bc68e6c.2e2793f7@aol.com> Message-ID: <005101c46a6d$d89ddb60$5df64342@nathanqa8gl7gx> Although the Madagascar labradorite has been known for sometime, there appears to be a new production of it. Does anyone know where in Madagascar its from? The color is patchy, but the color is intnse with color zones of yellow, etc. around the intense, dark blue central color zones. Van ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 4:01 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Labradorite vs. Spectrolite > It's late but I'll try > I have seen both varieties up close and own some myself. > > I suppose it can be somewhat explained by comparing it to Fluorite... > > There is top grade fluorite and lower grade fluorite, from many locations.. > Most likely you've seen both and know what I mean ? > > Good Finnish spectrolite has many sharp colors and patterns, which can be > seen from almost any angle... Most labradorite cannot compare to top grade > Spectrolite in colors, patterns and multiple angles of such.. > > There is some top A grade labradorite that rivals B grade spectrolite > > Others will have better ideas and facts > > Good Luck > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Jul 15 07:30:49 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Jul 15 07:31:05 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick References: <19372BEF-D625-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.1.2.0.0.20040714222123.03e183f0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <006301c46a78$57915aa0$6402a8c0@axel> Two limericks, no less! I feel honored ;-)))) I'll see if my American is good enough to enter the contest (I even don't have a Dutch thyme-dictionary)... Alohaxel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick > Here's a repeat of what I sent regarding Axel a while ago. Can I submit > another one, or do you limit the number of entries? :) > > There once was a Belgian quintessence > Of most ludicrous effervescence; > Wielding cow right and left, > He foiled moon-rock theft, > Then went back to his own rocks' fluorescence. > > So here's Axel Emmerman's epitaph: > He helped nab those rock-thieving riffraff; > Though he earned world-wide fame > For his FBI game, > Best of all he made lots of people laugh. > > Aloha, Kitty > > > > At 08:06 PM 7/14/2004, you wrote: > >...So, the deal is, respond to this message (to the list so that everyone > >else can hate me for disturbing their day or love me for bringing them > >thousands of wonderful limericks) with an original limerick, written by > >you, that has something to do with minerals. They don't have to be > >tasteful, just what most people would consider acceptable to a family > >forum. The book goes to the person who sends in the one I like best, plus > >pays $3.00 s&h (more if out of the USA or Canada). > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From tim at orerockon.com Thu Jul 15 07:42:35 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Jul 15 07:42:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Labradorite vs. Spectrolite In-Reply-To: <195.2beac1d3.2e275a94@aol.com> References: <195.2beac1d3.2e275a94@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.2.20040715073256.029f6df0@mail.spiritone.com> "Spectrolite" is a trade name invented by the Finnish Minister of Mines in the early 70s to attempt to separate the Finnish labradorite from other sources. Therefore any labradorite from Finland could be called "Spectrolite", I suppose. I think it's just another one of those catchy names that has almost come to substitute for a recognized mineral species name. So to answer the original question, if it's from Finland, it's Spectrolite. If it's not, it's not lol. And as others have pointed out, there is no difference between the sources of labradorite; pieces from one source are essentially chemically and structurally identical to pieces from another. I have seen the top "AAA" grade original material from Tabor Island, Labrador (now an Inuit owned quarry) that was mined in the 50s, and it is equal to the "AAA" grade Finnish material in every way. Similarly, "A" grade material (i.e., blue flash only) from all localities seems to be identical in appearance. At 08:57 PM 7/14/2004, you wrote: > Labradorite vs. Spectrolite. I realize that Spectrolite is from Finland > but >is there any way to distinguish it from Labradorite that is from other areas >of the world? > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Jul 15 08:31:28 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Jul 15 08:31:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick References: <19372BEF-D625-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.1.2.0.0.20040714222123.03e183f0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <007e01c46a80$d000d490$6402a8c0@axel> Ok, promise you won't laugh... or better promise that you WILL... Let it be known that I used the word gay in the sense of "light-hearted and carefree" for artistic purposes and without any connotation to the abstract meaning of the term which has regrettably become the most used meaning... So here's my contribution to Great American Literature: A Belgian rockhound, so gay looked for specimens night and day when they 're not fluorescent he'll think of 'm no less and collect the darn things anyway Now, that wasn't easy.... please excuse me while I go take a shower and repair the sweat that I broke. Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick > Here's a repeat of what I sent regarding Axel a while ago. Can I submit > another one, or do you limit the number of entries? :) > > There once was a Belgian quintessence > Of most ludicrous effervescence; > Wielding cow right and left, > He foiled moon-rock theft, > Then went back to his own rocks' fluorescence. > > So here's Axel Emmerman's epitaph: > He helped nab those rock-thieving riffraff; > Though he earned world-wide fame > For his FBI game, > Best of all he made lots of people laugh. > > Aloha, Kitty > > > > At 08:06 PM 7/14/2004, you wrote: > >...So, the deal is, respond to this message (to the list so that everyone > >else can hate me for disturbing their day or love me for bringing them > >thousands of wonderful limericks) with an original limerick, written by > >you, that has something to do with minerals. They don't have to be > >tasteful, just what most people would consider acceptable to a family > >forum. The book goes to the person who sends in the one I like best, plus > >pays $3.00 s&h (more if out of the USA or Canada). > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From dguin at earthlink.net Thu Jul 15 08:49:25 2004 From: dguin at earthlink.net (Dave Guin) Date: Thu Jul 15 08:49:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick In-Reply-To: <007e01c46a80$d000d490$6402a8c0@axel> References: <19372BEF-D625-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.1.2.0.0.20040714222123.03e183f0@mail.aloha.net> <007e01c46a80$d000d490$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: <40F6A785.6090408@earthlink.net> Axel Emmermann wrote: >Now, that wasn't easy.... please excuse me while I go take a shower and >repair the sweat that I broke. > >Cheers > >Axel > > One MUST suffer for one's art. Peace, dave From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Jul 15 09:07:19 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Jul 15 09:07:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick References: <19372BEF-D625-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.1.2.0.0.20040714222123.03e183f0@mail.aloha.net><007e01c46a80$d000d490$6402a8c0@axel> <40F6A785.6090408@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <008801c46a85$d24db880$6402a8c0@axel> I'm not sure but I don't think, suffered or not, this attempt will make me immortal as a poet... As a consolation to those who suffered immensely from my ludicrously literary effervescence: in Dutch, a "sufferd" is a moron. World peace, nothing less... Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Guin" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > >Now, that wasn't easy.... please excuse me while I go take a shower and > >repair the sweat that I broke. > > > >Cheers > > > >Axel > > > > > One MUST suffer for one's art. > > Peace, > dave > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Thu Jul 15 09:23:52 2004 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Thu Jul 15 09:23:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick Message-ID: <13535B4A.6081C46C.02180873@aol.com> And so, though it must be said That we all have rocks in our head For wherever we go We search high and low For that specimen to knock us all dead respectfully Gene Hartstein Newark, DE From kahako at aloha.net Thu Jul 15 12:51:48 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Jul 15 12:25:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick In-Reply-To: <19372BEF-D625-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> References: <19372BEF-D625-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040715092621.02e991c0@mail.aloha.net> This is pretty stupid, but here goes anyway: While rock-hunting, "I'm tired," thought Lanny, And sought rest with timing uncanny, For just then on a stack Of sharp rocks he fell back. Now Lanny can't sit on his fanny, can he? Aloha, Kitty At 08:06 PM 7/14/2004, you wrote: >It's time to liven things up a bit. ... From MCGINNISG at aol.com Thu Jul 15 12:49:45 2004 From: MCGINNISG at aol.com (MCGINNISG@aol.com) Date: Thu Jul 15 12:49:49 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Limerick Message-ID: <115.35204ece.2e2839d9@aol.com> There one was a man from Nantucket, Who carried his rocks in a bucket! He was asked to tell, If one didn't sell. Then would you simply chuck it? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at aloha.net Thu Jul 15 13:24:20 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Jul 15 12:58:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] lava display Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040715102218.02e98970@mail.aloha.net> Here's a lava display that seems appropriate for Bastille Day: http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/archive/2004/Jul/20040715-4553_DAS_large.jpg (You may have to paste to make it wrap). Aloha, Kitty From dpowell13 at Rochester.rr.com Thu Jul 15 13:28:31 2004 From: dpowell13 at Rochester.rr.com (Darryl Powell) Date: Thu Jul 15 13:28:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yet another limerick Message-ID: <001401c46aaa$4bbc1b20$4086a918@6663r01> By the not-so-famous mineral poet, J.W. Von Goethite: There once was a pyrite from Spain Who spent ten years in the rain. Despite all the varnish He started to tarnish And his luster went right down the drain. Cheers to all. Darryl Powell Manchester, NY --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Cycadwood at aol.com Thu Jul 15 14:02:59 2004 From: Cycadwood at aol.com (Cycadwood@aol.com) Date: Thu Jul 15 14:03:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick Message-ID: <68.41769322.2e284b03@aol.com> There once was a lad from Manila whose favorite mineral was silica petrified wood, and jasper, he understood opal, agate, turitilla Frank J Daniels, publisher Western Colorado Publishing Company 2024 Freedom Court Grand Junction, CO 81503-9522 cycadwood@aol.com publisher of Petrified Wood: The World of Fossilized Wood, Cones, Ferns, and Cycads --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Thu Jul 15 14:03:45 2004 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Thu Jul 15 14:03:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Limerick Message-ID: <445F0D5C.7887354D.02180873@aol.com> There are lots of Nantucket ones, none of which can be posted to the list... :-) Gene In a message dated 7/15/2004 3:49:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MCGINNISG@aol.com writes: >There one was a man from Nantucket, >Who carried his rocks in a bucket! >He was asked to tell, >If one didn't sell. >Then would you simply chuck it? > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > ?text/plain (text body -- kept) > ?text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From Gslrocks at aol.com Thu Jul 15 14:18:38 2004 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Thu Jul 15 14:18:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Limerick Message-ID: <13.2e7dc5fd.2e284eae@aol.com> rofl those were my thoughts exactly..... --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From libawc at emory.edu Thu Jul 15 14:48:09 2004 From: libawc at emory.edu (Anita Westlake) Date: Thu Jul 15 14:48:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates In-Reply-To: <000d01c469c7$f7f5b560$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: <006901c46ab5$6ba38580$d6be8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> You take a mean picture, Axel! Just another talent in a long list... P.S. Did you ever ask your wife if I could marry you? : ) Anita -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 1:28 PM To: Ted@crystalgems.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates Our honeymoon was in the pre-MKA era but I was already into fluorescence. My first find of fluorescent mineral was found on a long walk through the Habachtal in Austria. http://www.minerant.org/photo/fluoE.html# , tenth row, first column: Talc.... I was a "rockpuppie" rather than a rockhound then ;-))) Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted" To: ; "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 6:21 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates On our honeymoon 20 some years ago, I took my wife to the Crater of Diamonds state park in Murfreesboro to look for a better diamond. We didn't find one, but she loved visiting Hot Springs afterwards and taking in their hot baths and massage. We did visit a number of rock stands and shops around Murfreesboro and Mt. Ida and came home with our suitcases bulging at the seams and slightly overweight at the airline counter Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Gary Brown Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 11:07 AM To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates Our first "overnight" date up to the North Shore saw us going up to the old Agate Mine in Thunder Bay. Dorothy came back with more agate than I did. But we digress... GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Alan Goldstein > Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 9:33 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates > > My wife is all three as well. How many couples can boast > their first date was to a rock quarry and a non-commerical > cave? Our second date was to an old quarry to look for fossil corals. > > Alan _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From libawc at emory.edu Thu Jul 15 15:33:59 2004 From: libawc at emory.edu (Anita Westlake) Date: Thu Jul 15 15:34:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick In-Reply-To: <19372BEF-D625-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <008a01c46abb$d2a45470$d6be8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> There once was a collector named Bevy Who gathered rocks both light and heavy Her house fell to the ground With a gurgling sound Cause she collected her rocks from the levee Anita D. Westlake, Manager James S. Guy Chemistry Library Math/Science Library 440 Atwood Hall EMORY UNIVERSITY Phone: 404-727-4066 email: anitawestlake@emory.edu FAX: 404-727-0054 Website: http://chemistry.library.emory.edu/index.html -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Lanny Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 2:06 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com : A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick It's time to liven things up a bit. I'm getting tired of glow worms, the moon and other things non-earthly mineral related. So, here is another free book. I meant to get this one out of here back in the time of St. Patricks day, but due to the move and all the time-wasting crap related to that over the past three months, it didn't get done. The book is "The Mineral Kingdom" by Paul E. Desautels. It is good book, light on technical info with a chapter on just about every aspect of minerals, lots of color and b&w photos, 251 pages. Hardcover/cloth bound. I read it once, and it's just not that much use on my book shelf anymore (and considering that my bookshelf is a lot smaller than it used to be, some things have to go). So, the deal is, respond to this message (to the list so that everyone else can hate me for disturbing their day or love me for bringing them thousands of wonderful limericks) with an original limerick, written by you, that has something to do with minerals. They don't have to be tasteful, just what most people would consider acceptable to a family forum. The book goes to the person who sends in the one I like best, plus pays $3.00 s&h (more if out of the USA or Canada). You have until Wednesday (July 21). I am waiting for a phone call providing permission for a friend and I to visit a mine in south central Idaho, and if that happens to be around that time, then selection of the winner will be delayed a few days. (If per chance the winner does not want that book but would prefer one of these two: "Electron Microprobe Analysis, Second Edition" by S. J. B. Reed, 1993 or "Applied Mineral Inventory Estimation" by A. J. Sinclair and G. H. Blackwell 2002, then he or she can so choose.) I'm waiting. Entertain me. Lanny _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Jul 15 14:50:24 2004 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Thu Jul 15 16:57:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick References: <19372BEF-D625-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <002901c46ab5$c38dee20$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Hope this doesn't offend but I couldn't help myself. A mineral collector named Ream Had delusions of wealth in a dream So this guy known as "Lan" Grabbed his rusty gold pan Got his rocks off next to a steam Burma Shave This said, I vote the book goes to Dave. I'll go shower now too. And wash my mouth out. John From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Jul 15 18:51:05 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Jul 15 18:36:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick References: <19372BEF-D625-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <40F73123.4265@Tomaszewski.net> Lanny Ream's great big bookcase needed to shrink. A fine limerick contest he thought up in a wink. If rockhounds would play He would give books away; The best rhyme within time should spray his drink. Kreigh Lanny wrote: > > It's time to liven things up a bit. I'm getting tired of glow worms, > the moon and other things non-earthly mineral related. So, here is > another free book. I meant to get this one out of here back in the time > of St. Patricks day, but due to the move and all the time-wasting crap > related to that over the past three months, it didn't get done. > > The book is "The Mineral Kingdom" by Paul E. Desautels. It is good > book, light on technical info with a chapter on just about every aspect > of minerals, lots of color and b&w photos, 251 pages. Hardcover/cloth > bound. I read it once, and it's just not that much use on my book shelf > anymore (and considering that my bookshelf is a lot smaller than it > used to be, some things have to go). > > So, the deal is, respond to this message (to the list so that everyone > else can hate me for disturbing their day or love me for bringing them > thousands of wonderful limericks) with an original limerick, written by > you, that has something to do with minerals. They don't have to be > tasteful, just what most people would consider acceptable to a family > forum. The book goes to the person who sends in the one I like best, > plus pays $3.00 s&h (more if out of the USA or Canada). > > You have until Wednesday (July 21). I am waiting for a phone call > providing permission for a friend and I to visit a mine in south > central Idaho, and if that happens to be around that time, then > selection of the winner will be delayed a few days. > > (If per chance the winner does not want that book but would prefer one > of these two: "Electron Microprobe Analysis, Second Edition" by S. J. > B. Reed, 1993 or "Applied Mineral Inventory Estimation" by A. J. > Sinclair and G. H. Blackwell 2002, then he or she can so choose.) > > I'm waiting. Entertain me. > > Lanny > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From lanny at lrream.com Thu Jul 15 21:58:24 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Thu Jul 15 21:58:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick In-Reply-To: <000a01c46a6b$9f1ded00$5e8b4c0c@fekib> References: <19372BEF-D625-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <000a01c46a6b$9f1ded00$5e8b4c0c@fekib> Message-ID: Thanks Larry, those were an amusing break in the day! Lanny On Jul 15, 2004, at 5:59 AM, Lawrence Rush wrote: > Lanny: I already have the book, but I have some original rockhound > limericks posted on my site that you might enjoy: > > www.connroxminerals.com > > Larry Rush From lanny at lrream.com Thu Jul 15 22:04:25 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Thu Jul 15 22:04:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick In-Reply-To: <000a01c46a6b$9f1ded00$5e8b4c0c@fekib> References: <19372BEF-D625-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <000a01c46a6b$9f1ded00$5e8b4c0c@fekib> Message-ID: <9BC6E352-D6E5-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Thanks all of you "non-poets" (non-poet) being a reference to the fact that "real" poets look down their snobbish noses at limericks. Keep the good times coming. I'm enjoying the responses and already see that it was a big mistake -- how to pick a winner... . I didn't anticipate the personal stuff, Lanny's fanny indeed! Now what do I do to get rid of those other two books... ? Regards, Lanny From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Fri Jul 16 06:17:04 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (catgbrown) Date: Fri Jul 16 07:13:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] miami (fl) shops In-Reply-To: <195.2beac1d3.2e275a94@aol.com> References: <195.2beac1d3.2e275a94@aol.com> Message-ID: <20040716131448.M23930@catspaw-minerals.com> hi all... I'm in beautiful (HOT!) Miama (fl) for a day. In about 5 minutes I'm going to drive down to the Everglades. I was wondering if there are any nice shops here in the Miami area. Later... Gary Brown Catspaw Minerals PS. I'm writing this from my notebook in my rental car using the KILLER "wifi" card my son loaned me. Who knows whose network I'm piggybacking on now! It's amazing how many unsecured ports there are out there in the world. From Gslrocks at aol.com Fri Jul 16 09:22:18 2004 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Fri Jul 16 09:22:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick Message-ID: <14.2e5b7335.2e295aba@aol.com> you can send me one for not using the normal Nantucket limericks...ROFL Greg --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Jul 16 09:31:20 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Jul 16 09:31:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Star Trek and Agates References: <006901c46ab5$6ba38580$d6be8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> Message-ID: <006b01c46b52$572cca60$6402a8c0@axel> >You take a mean picture, Axel! Just another talent in a long list... Thank you... I've evolved somewhat since, though... I think I took that photo about 10 years ago. I'll send you a sample off list ;-))))) >P.S. Did you ever ask your wife if I could marry you? : ) Yes... she took it rather well, I may say. After a day or two, when the worst laughter had subsided into an almost controllable series of giggles and chuckles, she asked (gasping for air while she spoke): "CAN SHE COOK ??? ROUAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH". At this point I got a little worried because she was breathing in this funny way... She's better now, almost back to normal. Cheers Axel From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Jul 16 09:36:41 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Jul 16 09:36:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick References: <19372BEF-D625-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com><000a01c46a6b$9f1ded00$5e8b4c0c@fekib> <9BC6E352-D6E5-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <008401c46b53$17563600$6402a8c0@axel> Haiku contest? Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 7:04 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick > Thanks all of you "non-poets" (non-poet) being a reference to the fact > that "real" poets look down their snobbish noses at limericks. Keep the > good times coming. I'm enjoying the responses and already see that it > was a big mistake -- how to pick a winner... . I didn't anticipate the > personal stuff, Lanny's fanny indeed! > > Now what do I do to get rid of those other two books... ? > > Regards, > > Lanny > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From Gslrocks at aol.com Fri Jul 16 10:07:51 2004 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Fri Jul 16 10:08:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick Message-ID: <1da.26684c0c.2e296567@aol.com> yes for every haiku Axel sends out a case of Belgian beer... ! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny at lrream.com Fri Jul 16 10:22:16 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Fri Jul 16 10:21:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick In-Reply-To: <008401c46b53$17563600$6402a8c0@axel> References: <19372BEF-D625-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com><000a01c46a6b$9f1ded00$5e8b4c0c@fekib> <9BC6E352-D6E5-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <008401c46b53$17563600$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: At this stage, I'm thinking a Haiku contest would have been better. Some of these limericks are pretty good, but let's not push the limits of the family forum. Picking a winner is going to be difficult! Lanny On Jul 16, 2004, at 9:36 AM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Haiku contest? > > Axel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lanny" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > > Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 7:04 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick > > >> Thanks all of you "non-poets" (non-poet) being a reference to the fact >> that "real" poets look down their snobbish noses at limericks. Keep >> the >> good times coming. I'm enjoying the responses and already see that it >> was a big mistake -- how to pick a winner... . I didn't anticipate the >> personal stuff, Lanny's fanny indeed! >> >> Now what do I do to get rid of those other two books... ? >> >> Regards, >> >> Lanny >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From kahako at aloha.net Fri Jul 16 10:51:29 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Jul 16 10:25:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick In-Reply-To: <9BC6E352-D6E5-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> References: <19372BEF-D625-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <000a01c46a6b$9f1ded00$5e8b4c0c@fekib> <9BC6E352-D6E5-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040716075030.02eb9ea0@mail.aloha.net> For a really valuable book you might require a sonnet! Kitty At 07:04 PM 7/15/2004, you wrote: >Now what do I do to get rid of those other two books... ? > >Lanny From MCGINNISG at aol.com Fri Jul 16 13:23:05 2004 From: MCGINNISG at aol.com (MCGINNISG@aol.com) Date: Fri Jul 16 13:23:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nantucket Limerick Message-ID: <15.2dcc4dcf.2e299329@aol.com> Hey! The Nantucket limerick was CLEAN! When was the last time you heard a CLEAN Nantucket limerick? Probably never! Don't be like the guy who thought Martial Art was paintings of Matt Dillion and Wyatt Earp! (Marshall Art). Ha! Ha! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Fri Jul 16 13:28:11 2004 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Fri Jul 16 13:28:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nantucket Limerick Message-ID: <47DEFECD.7B18886A.02180873@aol.com> Agreed. That was the point of my commnet. I had never heard a clean Nantucket lymerick before. Gene In a message dated 7/16/2004 4:23:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MCGINNISG@aol.com writes: >Hey! The Nantucket limerick was CLEAN! ?When was the last time you heard a >CLEAN Nantucket limerick? ? Probably never! > >Don't be like the guy who thought Martial Art was paintings of Matt Dillion >and Wyatt Earp! ? ? ?(Marshall Art). ?Ha! Ha! > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > ?text/plain (text body -- kept) > ?text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From kahako at aloha.net Fri Jul 16 16:00:03 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Jul 16 15:33:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick In-Reply-To: <19372BEF-D625-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> References: <19372BEF-D625-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040716125339.02e9beb0@mail.aloha.net> Here's another. I got the idea from that great list "You know you're a rockhound when..." If you like to pick rocks from the ground, Throw a marble for each one you've found; When so many you've tossed, That your marbles you've lost, Then you know you've become a rockhound. Kitty At 08:06 PM 7/14/2004, you wrote: >It's time to liven things up a bit. ... >I'm waiting. Entertain me. > >Lanny From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jul 16 19:28:20 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jul 16 19:10:39 2004 Subject: OT -- Re: [Rockhounds] Nantucket Limerick References: <47DEFECD.7B18886A.02180873@aol.com> Message-ID: <40F88A95.3FA6@Tomaszewski.net> You can find more than a couple dozen clean Nantucket limericks at http://www.nantucket.net/YI/limerick/ FOSSILNUT@aol.com wrote: > > Agreed. That was the point of my commnet. I had never heard a clean Nantucket lymerick before. > > Gene > > In a message dated 7/16/2004 4:23:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MCGINNISG@aol.com writes: > > >Hey! The Nantucket limerick was CLEAN! ?When was the last time you heard a > >CLEAN Nantucket limerick? ? Probably never! > > > >Don't be like the guy who thought Martial Art was paintings of Matt Dillion > >and Wyatt Earp! ? ? ?(Marshall Art). ?Ha! Ha! > > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jul 16 19:52:43 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jul 16 19:34:57 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick References: <19372BEF-D625-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <000a01c46a6b$9f1ded00$5e8b4c0c@fekib> <9BC6E352-D6E5-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <40F89049.AEE@Tomaszewski.net> Lanny, When you look down your nose You see your toes And that's the way it goes. Gee, I'm a poet And I didn't know it But my feet show it (They're Longfellows) Now to get rid of the other two books, give one to the person who has the best suggestion for a new contest, and the second to the winner of that contest. Kreigh Lanny wrote: > > Thanks all of you "non-poets" (non-poet) being a reference to the fact > that "real" poets look down their snobbish noses at limericks. Keep the > good times coming. I'm enjoying the responses and already see that it > was a big mistake -- how to pick a winner... . I didn't anticipate the > personal stuff, Lanny's fanny indeed! > > Now what do I do to get rid of those other two books... ? > > Regards, > > Lanny From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Jul 17 06:57:05 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Jul 17 06:57:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick References: <19372BEF-D625-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com><000a01c46a6b$9f1ded00$5e8b4c0c@fekib><9BC6E352-D6E5-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com><008401c46b53$17563600$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: <002901c46c05$f587a3c0$6402a8c0@axel> I hesitate... should I stick(erick) with Limericks an emerman NOT from Nantucket was seen on an upside-down bucket a cow he would wield until butter she'd yield every day from morning till sunset or go for the haikus Storm of limericks ripples over the Internet now glowworms sadly drowned hm... hard choice... Axel (having fun) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick > At this stage, I'm thinking a Haiku contest would have been better. > > Some of these limericks are pretty good, but let's not push the limits > of the family forum. > > Picking a winner is going to be difficult! > > Lanny > > > On Jul 16, 2004, at 9:36 AM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > Haiku contest? > > > > Axel > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lanny" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors" > > > > Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 7:04 AM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick > > > > > >> Thanks all of you "non-poets" (non-poet) being a reference to the fact > >> that "real" poets look down their snobbish noses at limericks. Keep > >> the > >> good times coming. I'm enjoying the responses and already see that it > >> was a big mistake -- how to pick a winner... . I didn't anticipate the > >> personal stuff, Lanny's fanny indeed! > >> > >> Now what do I do to get rid of those other two books... ? > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Lanny > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From jabac at hal-pc.org Sat Jul 17 08:13:50 2004 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Sat Jul 17 08:09:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick In-Reply-To: <19372BEF-D625-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> References: <19372BEF-D625-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <1090077067.2753.18.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2004-07-15 at 01:06, Lanny wrote: > It's time to liven things up a bit. I'm getting tired of glow worms, > I'm waiting. Entertain me. > > Lanny To the everyday collector: I've reams of material on rocks And even a few on old locks But try as I might Though I look left and right I can't find a pair of dry socks. The Mineralogist's Dream: If you all try to follow Axel right You'll find that his numerous tracks'll bite Leading hither and yon Till they all come upon That one hoped-for rare bit of Axellite. Beware of the Dog: A novice collector was sold A rare piece of precious old gold Twas his pride and delight Till he found out one night That Pyrite is yellow and bold. john From jabac at hal-pc.org Sat Jul 17 08:28:38 2004 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Sat Jul 17 08:24:31 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick In-Reply-To: <002901c46c05$f587a3c0$6402a8c0@axel> References: <19372BEF-D625-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <000a01c46a6b$9f1ded00$5e8b4c0c@fekib> <9BC6E352-D6E5-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <008401c46b53$17563600$6402a8c0@axel> <002901c46c05$f587a3c0$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: <1090078118.2753.27.camel@localhost> On Sat, 2004-07-17 at 08:57, Axel Emmermann wrote: > I hesitate... > should I stick(erick) with Limericks > > an emerman NOT from Nantucket > was seen on an upside-down bucket > a cow he would wield > until butter she'd yield > every day from morning till sunset > > or go for the haikus > > Storm of limericks > ripples over the Internet now > glowworms sadly drowned > > hm... hard choice... > > Axel (having fun) > > Glowing worms On rippling water Moonlight Drowning stars Liquid Inca gold Masks desert white In the heat Of discovery Were I born again I would be a seashell In the hands Of a child john From kahako at aloha.net Sat Jul 17 11:05:08 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Jul 17 10:38:57 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] haiku In-Reply-To: <1090078118.2753.27.camel@localhost> References: <19372BEF-D625-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <000a01c46a6b$9f1ded00$5e8b4c0c@fekib> <9BC6E352-D6E5-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <008401c46b53$17563600$6402a8c0@axel> <002901c46c05$f587a3c0$6402a8c0@axel> <1090078118.2753.27.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040717075936.03211eb0@mail.aloha.net> Not to pick nits, but: A haiku should show a simple, elegant thought in only three lines: Five syllables in first and third lines, and seven in second; that's all. Aloha, Kitty At 05:28 AM 7/17/2004, you wrote: > > Storm of limericks > > ripples over the Internet now > > glowworms sadly drowned > >Axel >Glowing worms >On rippling water >Moonlight >Drowning stars > > >Liquid Inca gold >Masks desert white >In the heat >Of discovery > > >Were I born again >I would be a seashell >In the hands >Of a child > > > >john > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Jul 17 14:59:14 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Jul 17 14:38:52 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] haiku References: <19372BEF-D625-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <000a01c46a6b$9f1ded00$5e8b4c0c@fekib> <9BC6E352-D6E5-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <008401c46b53$17563600$6402a8c0@axel> <002901c46c05$f587a3c0$6402a8c0@axel> <1090078118.2753.27.camel@localhost> <6.1.2.0.0.20040717075936.03211eb0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <40F99C66.A0B@Tomaszewski.net> A crash reduces your expensive computer to a simple stone. Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > Not to pick nits, but: > > A haiku should show > a simple, elegant thought > in only three lines: > > Five syllables in > first and third lines, and seven > in second; that's all. > > Aloha, Kitty > > At 05:28 AM 7/17/2004, you wrote: > > > Storm of limericks > > > ripples over the Internet now > > > glowworms sadly drowned > > >Axel > > >Glowing worms > >On rippling water > >Moonlight > >Drowning stars > > > > > >Liquid Inca gold > >Masks desert white > >In the heat > >Of discovery > > > > > >Were I born again > >I would be a seashell > >In the hands > >Of a child > > > > > > > >john From jabac at hal-pc.org Sat Jul 17 20:54:47 2004 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Sat Jul 17 20:50:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] haiku In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20040717075936.03211eb0@mail.aloha.net> References: <19372BEF-D625-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <000a01c46a6b$9f1ded00$5e8b4c0c@fekib> <9BC6E352-D6E5-11D8-BC90-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <008401c46b53$17563600$6402a8c0@axel> <002901c46c05$f587a3c0$6402a8c0@axel> <1090078118.2753.27.camel@localhost> <6.1.2.0.0.20040717075936.03211eb0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <1090122887.2729.0.camel@localhost> On Sat, 2004-07-17 at 13:05, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > Not to pick nits, but: > > A haiku should show > a simple, elegant thought > in only three lines: > > Five syllables in > first and third lines, and seven > in second; that's all. > > Aloha, Kitty > > It is indeed. john From afox at drizzle.com Mon Jul 19 18:43:46 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Mon Jul 19 18:43:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 192-caret diamond Message-ID: MLP: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/APWires/headlines/D83U6V100.html Courtesy the AP. I want one. Not sure what I'd do with it, though.... a. -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox Highway Patrolman: "Sir, do you know how fast you were going?" Heisenberg: "No, but I know EXACTLY where I was!" From kris at murraysrockpile.com Mon Jul 19 18:53:17 2004 From: kris at murraysrockpile.com (Kris Murray) Date: Mon Jul 19 18:53:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 192-caret diamond In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <91A57DFC-D9EF-11D8-9D3C-000A95AF049E@murraysrockpile.com> i would make a sphere, myself ;))) too bad he only gets to keep a 'percentage' ~KM -- "No matter how hard you try, you cannot baptize a cat." heard on Comedy Central. --- On Jul 19, 2004, at 6:43 PM, Aaron Fox wrote: > MLP: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/APWires/headlines/D83U6V100.html > > Courtesy the AP. I want one. Not sure what I'd do with it, though.... From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Jul 19 19:25:48 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Jul 19 19:22:06 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 182-caret diamond References: Message-ID: <40FC81C4.18B8@Tomaszewski.net> Also at http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3226191 I want one too. But I think I know what to do with one; sell it and retire. Kreigh Aaron Fox wrote: > > MLP: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/APWires/headlines/D83U6V100.html > > Courtesy the AP. I want one. Not sure what I'd do with it, though.... > > a. > > -- > afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox > Highway Patrolman: "Sir, do you know how fast you were going?" > Heisenberg: "No, but I know EXACTLY where I was!" > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Jul 19 19:46:09 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Jul 19 19:42:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Virus Warning Message-ID: <40FC8686.2A11@Tomaszewski.net> There are several new virus nasties that were recently discovered, and at least one is spreading like wildfire across the internet after appearing today. I was prompted to alert the list because I received one of the new ones claiming to come from a list member. At least one other list member and I are in someone's address book, so someone you know could be infected. Practice safe computing. Make sure your antivirus software is current (NOW!). Don't open unexpected attachments, even when they appear to come from someone you know. Kreigh From rocks4u at prodigy.net Mon Jul 19 20:47:50 2004 From: rocks4u at prodigy.net (rocks4u@prodigy.net) Date: Mon Jul 19 20:40:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Virus Warning References: <40FC8686.2A11@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <001b01c46e0c$546e6380$f6c6c43f@cnq3yak2e45rug> My address has been hijacked and I receive dozens of bounced messages (from all over the world) with an attachment (read virus) attached to it that I didn't send. My anti-virus is auto-current but I wish there was a way of stopping the use of my address without getting a new one. WL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 7:46 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Virus Warning > There are several new virus nasties that were recently discovered, and > at least one is spreading like wildfire across the internet after > appearing today. > > I was prompted to alert the list because I received one of the new ones > claiming to come from a list member. At least one other list member and > I are in someone's address book, so someone you know could be infected. > > Practice safe computing. Make sure your antivirus software is current > (NOW!). Don't open unexpected attachments, even when they appear to come > from someone you know. > > Kreigh > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From afox at drizzle.com Tue Jul 20 03:24:30 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Afox) Date: Tue Jul 20 01:59:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Message-ID: --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/html image/bmp application/octet-stream --- StripMime Errors --- A message with no text/plain section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using plaintext formatting --- From afox at drizzle.com Tue Jul 20 03:47:06 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Afox) Date: Tue Jul 20 02:22:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Message-ID: --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/html application/octet-stream --- StripMime Errors --- A message with no text/plain section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using plaintext formatting --- From Docia1154 at aol.com Tue Jul 20 05:04:02 2004 From: Docia1154 at aol.com (Docia1154@aol.com) Date: Tue Jul 20 05:04:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Virus Warning Message-ID: In a message dated 7/19/2004 10:40:44 PM Central Daylight Time, rocks4u@prodigy.net writes: My address has been hijacked and I receive dozens of bounced messages (from all over the world) with an attachment (read virus) attached to it that I didn't send. My anti-virus is auto-current but I wish there was a way of stopping the use of my address without getting a new one. a few years ago my address was hijacked and folks in my address book/buddy list were receiving junk/spam/virus infected email and it was suggested that I go into my address book and insert the address "AAAA" - apparently when these virus mongers grasp your address and start sending out to your contacts it starts at the top of your address book and if it can't send to the first one then it is blocked. I don't know the true effectiveness of it but since that time I am not aware of it having happened to me. (of course I often expect that we will eventually need to add "zzzz" figuring that the creeps who do this sort of think will figure out a way to start at the opposite end of the alphabet). --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Lapidry at aol.com Tue Jul 20 05:10:12 2004 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Tue Jul 20 05:10:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Virus Warning Message-ID: <1a8.2618cb1b.2e2e65a4@aol.com> In a message dated 7/20/2004 8:04:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, Docia1154@aol.com writes: it was suggested that I go into my address book and insert the address "AAAA" - apparently when these virus mongers grasp your address and start sending out to your contacts it starts at the top of your address book and if it can't send to the first one then it is blocked. Unfortunately, the mailers don't wait for a response. This doesn't, in any fashion, block the use of your mail list. What it actually does though is almost as good. It lets you know that your mail list has been hijacked because you'll get a bounce on the invalid e-mail address and you should recognize it as the dummy e-mail you created. For this reason, everyone should create an invalid e-mail address in their address book just to pick up hijacking. Make it something you'll recognize immediately. Dan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From BETDAV97 at aol.com Tue Jul 20 05:19:14 2004 From: BETDAV97 at aol.com (BETDAV97@aol.com) Date: Tue Jul 20 05:19:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 192-caret diamond Message-ID: <12d.462cb877.2e2e67c2@aol.com> The first link doesn't work at the Seattle times, but the other link does work. Thanks, Dave --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From murowchickj at umkc.edu Tue Jul 20 10:08:33 2004 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (J B Murowchick) Date: Tue Jul 20 10:08:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Virus Warning In-Reply-To: <1a8.2618cb1b.2e2e65a4@aol.com> Message-ID: Good idea! But if I get a bounce back, what can I do then to stop further use of my address list? Jim Murowchick on 7/20/04 7:10 AM, Lapidry@aol.com at Lapidry@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/20/2004 8:04:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, > Docia1154@aol.com writes: > it was suggested that I > go into my address book and insert the address "AAAA" - apparently when these > virus mongers grasp your address and start sending out to your contacts it > starts at the top of your address book and if it can't send to the first one > then > it is blocked. > Unfortunately, the mailers don't wait for a response. This doesn't, in any > fashion, block the use of your mail list. What it actually does though is > almost > as good. It lets you know that your mail list has been hijacked because > you'll get a bounce on the invalid e-mail address and you should recognize it > as > the dummy e-mail you created. For this reason, everyone should create an > invalid > e-mail address in their address book just to pick up hijacking. Make it > something you'll recognize immediately. > > Dan > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds __________________________________________________________ Dr. James B. Murowchick Associate Professor Office: (816) 235-2979 Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall Fax: (816) 235-5535 University of Missouri-Kansas City E-mail: murowchickj@umkc.edu 5110 Rockhill Road Kansas City, MO 64110 From Lapidry at aol.com Tue Jul 20 13:42:30 2004 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Tue Jul 20 13:42:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Virus Warning Message-ID: <75.2ec74818.2e2eddb6@aol.com> In a message dated 7/20/2004 1:09:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, murowchickj@umkc.edu writes: Good idea! But if I get a bounce back, what can I do then to stop further use of my address list? Jim Murowchick It indicates you have a virus or macro on your system that's feeding your address book to someone or using your computer to do the actual mailing. In either case, you need to scan your system and fix the problem so it doesn't occur again. I should have explained that. Sorry. As others have mentioned, your virus protection is only as good as the last update. Some of the viruses are pretty good at disabling the more common virus programs such as Norton and McAfee if they get in. If you have your software set up for automatic updates you still have a fairly large window of opportunity before you get the virus definition (fix) that the more robust viruses can get you. I use Norton because I personally consider it the best but there are advantages to "off brand" virus scanners. The folks creating the viruses usually ignore them. Knock on wood but I haven't had a virus in ages. I did have one several years ago that took down McAfee and I had to go find one of the off brands in order to get rid of it. Well, hope this helps someone and I'm not just rambling.... Dan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Jul 20 17:30:43 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Jul 20 17:23:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Virus Warning (address book tricks) References: Message-ID: <40FDB78D.5870@Tomaszewski.net> There was one early virus where the invalid AAAA address trick worked, but that was a long time ago. There was also a period of time where having an invalid address in your directory could generate a bounce message back to you to make you aware you might be infected. Unfortunately, the new breed of virus we are seeing today contain their own SMTP engine so they can effectively spoof the from address so you never see any bounces (and if they do, they are coming from someone else's computer). About the only thing you can do with addresses is put your own address into your directory and hope the virus sends you a message as it randomly uses any two email addresses it finds anywhere on your disk (not just from your directory) to assemble the next message it is sending out. That also means you must check the headers on every virus you receive to make sure it did not originate on your machine. Do you know what IP address your machine is using now? It changes for most folks every time they connect to the internet. You are better off putting the time and energy into making sure you have current virus protection. Kreigh Docia1154@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 7/19/2004 10:40:44 PM Central Daylight Time, > rocks4u@prodigy.net writes: > My address has been hijacked and I receive dozens of bounced messages (from > all over the world) with an attachment (read virus) attached to it that I > didn't send. My anti-virus is auto-current but I wish there was a way of > stopping the use of my address without getting a new one. > a few years ago my address was hijacked and folks in my address book/buddy > list were receiving junk/spam/virus infected email and it was suggested that I > go into my address book and insert the address "AAAA" - apparently when these > virus mongers grasp your address and start sending out to your contacts it > starts at the top of your address book and if it can't send to the first one then > it is blocked. I don't know the true effectiveness of it but since that time > I am not aware of it having happened to me. (of course I often expect that we > will eventually need to add "zzzz" figuring that the creeps who do this sort > of think will figure out a way to start at the opposite end of the alphabet). From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Jul 20 18:08:01 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Jul 20 18:01:07 2004 Subject: Two Virus Messages Sent to List (was: Re: [Rockhounds] Re:) References: Message-ID: <40FDC045.46E8@Tomaszewski.net> Two virus messages, appearing to come from our list owner, were sent to the list this evening from IP 195.55.130.65 in Spain. The list software stripped out the virus, leaving the empty messages below. It is likely someone on the list is infected. If you think it might be you, please go to any of the major antivirus vendor sites and run their latest cleaning utility. Kreigh Afox wrote: > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/html > application/octet-stream > --- StripMime Errors --- > A message with no text/plain section was received. > The entire body of the message was removed. Please > resend the email using plaintext formatting > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds First Message:=============> Return-Path: Received: from 192.168.1.26 (127.0.0.1) by Tomaszewski.net with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Tue, 20 Jul 2004 05:09:44 -0400 Message-Id: To: "Rockhounds" From: "Afox" Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:24:30 +0100 Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Received: from bubbleator.drizzle.com (bubbleator.drizzle.com [216.162.192.19]) by hood.cnchost.com (ConcentricHost SMTP MX 1.45) id EAA02798 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 04:59:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bubbleator.drizzle.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by bubbleator.drizzle.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6K8xPb6001542; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 01:59:32 -0700 Received: from A0502019.org (pigna1.aragob.es [195.55.130.65]) by bubbleator.drizzle.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i6K8xMb2001513 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 01:59:23 -0700 Return-Path: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime X-StripMime-Failure: no text/plain X-BeenThere: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com Errors-To: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com X-JunkMail: NotJunk X-MFData: [4.286456 v2.1:1 n131 s2016 g22657 b21606 p0.023744 sN5 t1,792624] X-UIDL: 193188 X-Processed-By-SpamBolt: VicomsoftSpamBolt-0524610019 X-SpamBolt-Status: No, hits=0.0, required=5.0 X-Spam-Tests: <>: <>: X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/html image/bmp application/octet-stream --- StripMime Errors --- A message with no text/plain section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using plaintext formatting --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Second Message:============> Return-Path: Received: from 192.168.1.26 (127.0.0.1) by Tomaszewski.net with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Tue, 20 Jul 2004 05:39:26 -0400 Message-Id: To: "Rockhounds" From: "Afox" Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:47:06 +0100 Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Received: from bubbleator.drizzle.com (bubbleator.drizzle.com [216.162.192.19]) by audacious.cnchost.com (ConcentricHost SMTP MX 1.45) id FAA00208 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 05:22:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bubbleator.drizzle.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by bubbleator.drizzle.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6K9M1Zn006271; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 02:22:03 -0700 Received: from A0502019.net (pigna1.aragob.es [195.55.130.65]) by bubbleator.drizzle.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i6K9LuZj006249 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 02:21:57 -0700 Return-Path: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime X-StripMime-Failure: no text/plain X-BeenThere: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com Errors-To: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com X-JunkMail: NotJunk X-MFData: [4.714445 v2.1:1 n130 s2000 g22710 b21623 p0.024519 sN5 t0,779045] X-UIDL: 193191 X-Processed-By-SpamBolt: VicomsoftSpamBolt-0524610019 X-SpamBolt-Status: No, hits=0.0, required=5.0 X-Spam-Tests: <>: <>: X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/html application/octet-stream --- StripMime Errors --- A message with no text/plain section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using plaintext formatting --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From afox at drizzle.com Tue Jul 20 18:11:19 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Tue Jul 20 18:11:21 2004 Subject: *****SPAM***** Two Virus Messages Sent to List (was: Re: [Rockhounds] Re:) In-Reply-To: <40FDC045.46E8@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: I can also vouch for the fact that it's not me, as the computer has been down since last night. If you've ever wondered what the sound of a hard drive grinding itself to death sounds like, just email me and I'll send you a recording (sigh). Thank goodness for RAID 1 arrays for data. Not much I can do about these, since I only control GNU Mailman, which wont' follow back through the headers to verify true senders. Maybe when Drizzle finally gets on board with SPF.... If this continues to be a problem, I'll explore full moderation, with all posts held until they can be reviewed by moderators. Sigh. Thanks for the catch, Kreigh. a. > Two virus messages, appearing to come from our list owner, were sent to > the list this evening from IP 195.55.130.65 in Spain. The list software > stripped out the virus, leaving the empty messages below. It is likely > someone on the list is infected. If you think it might be you, please go > to any of the major antivirus vendor sites and run their latest cleaning > utility. > > Kreigh > > > > > Afox wrote: > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/mixed > > text/html > > application/octet-stream > > --- StripMime Errors --- > > A message with no text/plain section was received. > > The entire body of the message was removed. Please > > resend the email using plaintext formatting > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > First Message:=============> > Return-Path: > > Received: > from 192.168.1.26 (127.0.0.1) by Tomaszewski.net > with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Tue, 20 Jul 2004 > 05:09:44 -0400 > Message-Id: > > To: > "Rockhounds" > From: > "Afox" > Subject: > [Rockhounds] Re: > Date: > Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:24:30 +0100 > Reply-To: > "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock > and gem collectors" > Received: > from bubbleator.drizzle.com > (bubbleator.drizzle.com [216.162.192.19]) by hood.cnchost.com > (ConcentricHost SMTP MX > 1.45) id EAA02798 for ; > Tue, 20 Jul 2004 04:59:58 -0400 (EDT) > Received: > from bubbleator.drizzle.com > (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by bubbleator.drizzle.com > (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id > i6K8xPb6001542; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 01:59:32 -0700 > Received: > from A0502019.org (pigna1.aragob.es > [195.55.130.65]) by bubbleator.drizzle.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP > id > i6K8xMb2001513 for > ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 01:59:23 -0700 > Return-Path: > > MIME-Version: > 1.0 > X-StripMime: > Non-text section removed by stripmime > X-StripMime-Failure: > no text/plain > X-BeenThere: > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > X-Mailman-Version: > 2.1.5 > Precedence: > list > List-Id: > "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock > and gem collectors" > List-Unsubscribe: > > , > > List-Archive: > > List-Post: > > List-Help: > > > List-Subscribe: > > , > > Sender: > rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > Errors-To: > rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > X-JunkMail: > NotJunk > X-MFData: > [4.286456 v2.1:1 n131 s2016 g22657 b21606 > p0.023744 sN5 t1,792624] > X-UIDL: > 193188 > X-Processed-By-SpamBolt: > VicomsoftSpamBolt-0524610019 > X-SpamBolt-Status: > No, hits=0.0, required=5.0 > X-Spam-Tests: > <>: < results>>: > X-Spam-Flag: > NO > X-Mozilla-Status: > 0001 > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/html > image/bmp > application/octet-stream > --- StripMime Errors --- > A message with no text/plain section was received. > The entire body of the message was removed. Please > resend the email using plaintext formatting > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > Second Message:============> > Return-Path: > > Received: > from 192.168.1.26 (127.0.0.1) by Tomaszewski.net > with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Tue, 20 Jul 2004 > 05:39:26 -0400 > Message-Id: > > To: > "Rockhounds" > From: > "Afox" > Subject: > [Rockhounds] Re: > Date: > Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:47:06 +0100 > Reply-To: > "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock > and gem collectors" > Received: > from bubbleator.drizzle.com > (bubbleator.drizzle.com [216.162.192.19]) by audacious.cnchost.com > (ConcentricHost SMTP MX > 1.45) id FAA00208 for ; > Tue, 20 Jul 2004 05:22:42 -0400 (EDT) > Received: > from bubbleator.drizzle.com > (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by bubbleator.drizzle.com > (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id > i6K9M1Zn006271; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 02:22:03 -0700 > Received: > from A0502019.net (pigna1.aragob.es > [195.55.130.65]) by bubbleator.drizzle.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP > id > i6K9LuZj006249 for > ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 02:21:57 -0700 > Return-Path: > > MIME-Version: > 1.0 > X-StripMime: > Non-text section removed by stripmime > X-StripMime-Failure: > no text/plain > X-BeenThere: > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > X-Mailman-Version: > 2.1.5 > Precedence: > list > List-Id: > "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock > and gem collectors" > List-Unsubscribe: > > , > > List-Archive: > > List-Post: > > List-Help: > > > List-Subscribe: > > , > > Sender: > rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > Errors-To: > rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > X-JunkMail: > NotJunk > X-MFData: > [4.714445 v2.1:1 n130 s2000 g22710 b21623 > p0.024519 sN5 t0,779045] > X-UIDL: > 193191 > X-Processed-By-SpamBolt: > VicomsoftSpamBolt-0524610019 > X-SpamBolt-Status: > No, hits=0.0, required=5.0 > X-Spam-Tests: > <>: < results>>: > X-Spam-Flag: > NO > X-Mozilla-Status: > 0001 > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/html > application/octet-stream > --- StripMime Errors --- > A message with no text/plain section was received. > The entire body of the message was removed. Please > resend the email using plaintext formatting > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox Highway Patrolman: "Sir, do you know how fast you were going?" Heisenberg: "No, but I know EXACTLY where I was!" From iceage at adelphia.net Tue Jul 20 21:29:07 2004 From: iceage at adelphia.net (Patrick M. Harvey) Date: Tue Jul 20 18:26:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Virus Warning In-Reply-To: <75.2ec74818.2e2eddb6@aol.com> References: <75.2ec74818.2e2eddb6@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040720212810.02d21030@mail.adelphia.net> Did you have a firewall? Thanks, Patrick At 01:42 PM 7/20/04, you wrote: >In a message dated 7/20/2004 1:09:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, >murowchickj@umkc.edu writes: >Good idea! But if I get a bounce back, what can I do then to stop further >use of my address list? >Jim Murowchick >It indicates you have a virus or macro on your system that's feeding your >address book to someone or using your computer to do the actual mailing. In >either case, you need to scan your system and fix the problem so it >doesn't occur >again. I should have explained that. Sorry. > >As others have mentioned, your virus protection is only as good as the last >update. Some of the viruses are pretty good at disabling the more common >virus >programs such as Norton and McAfee if they get in. If you have your software >set up for automatic updates you still have a fairly large window of >opportunity before you get the virus definition (fix) that the more robust >viruses can >get you. I use Norton because I personally consider it the best but there are >advantages to "off brand" virus scanners. The folks creating the viruses >usually ignore them. Knock on wood but I haven't had a virus in ages. I >did have one >several years ago that took down McAfee and I had to go find one of the off >brands in order to get rid of it. > >Well, hope this helps someone and I'm not just rambling.... > >Dan Patrick M. Harvey NAR 81752 L2 Bluegrass Rocketry Society NAR# 657 - Advisor Visit the BluesRockS website: www.bluesrocks.org Kentucky TARC teams welcome! From Lapidry at aol.com Tue Jul 20 19:47:07 2004 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Tue Jul 20 19:47:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Virus Warning Message-ID: <8a.100d78af.2e2f332b@aol.com> Patrick: Not back then. I don't even remember if Black Ice was around that long ago. I have Norton Personal Firewall on all my machines now. Not because I've had a problem, so that I don't. Dan In a message dated 7/20/2004 9:26:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, iceage@adelphia.net writes: Did you have a firewall? Thanks, Patrick At 01:42 PM 7/20/04, you wrote: >In a message dated 7/20/2004 1:09:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, >murowchickj@umkc.edu writes: >Good idea! But if I get a bounce back, what can I do then to stop further >use of my address list? >Jim Murowchick >It indicates you have a virus or macro on your system that's feeding your >address book to someone or using your computer to do the actual mailing. In >either case, you need to scan your system and fix the problem so it >doesn't occur >again. I should have explained that. Sorry. > >As others have mentioned, your virus protection is only as good as the last >update. Some of the viruses are pretty good at disabling the more common >virus >programs such as Norton and McAfee if they get in. If you have your software >set up for automatic updates you still have a fairly large window of >opportunity before you get the virus definition (fix) that the more robust >viruses can >get you. I use Norton because I personally consider it the best but there are >advantages to "off brand" virus scanners. The folks creating the viruses >usually ignore them. Knock on wood but I haven't had a virus in ages. I >did have one >several years ago that took down McAfee and I had to go find one of the off >brands in order to get rid of it. > >Well, hope this helps someone and I'm not just rambling.... > >Dan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From cjkuo at verizon.net Tue Jul 20 19:52:11 2004 From: cjkuo at verizon.net (Jimmy Kuo) Date: Tue Jul 20 19:53:15 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Virus Warning References: <75.2ec74818.2e2eddb6@aol.com> <6.0.3.0.2.20040720212810.02d21030@mail.adelphia.net> Message-ID: <003301c46ecd$ba9192b0$7f7f7f7f@eur.nai.com> I wrote this a couple years ago. But people may still find it sufficiently informative. http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/workshops/security/comments/chengijimmykuo.pdf In it, I reference the Stay Safe Online Campaign. They're (We're) here: http://www.staysafeonline.info/ Jimmy From morningstar at att.net Tue Jul 20 20:00:17 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Tue Jul 20 20:00:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Virus Warning Message-ID: <072120040300.3734.40FDDC40000CDC2F00000E9621603762239D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> As a computer security professional (hopefully not too much longer), I can assert that Jimmy's work is known and respected. List members might not recongize the name, but if you do a lot of reading in the computer security field, you will. His advice is always worth heeding. Don > I wrote this a couple years ago. But people may still find it sufficiently > informative. > > http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/workshops/security/comments/chengijimmykuo.pdf > > In it, I reference the Stay Safe Online Campaign. They're (We're) here: > > http://www.staysafeonline.info/ From kris at murraysrockpile.com Tue Jul 20 20:01:17 2004 From: kris at murraysrockpile.com (Kris Murray) Date: Tue Jul 20 20:01:25 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Virus Warning (address book tricks) In-Reply-To: <40FDB78D.5870@Tomaszewski.net> References: <40FDB78D.5870@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <3C4471FC-DAC2-11D8-9D3C-000A95AF049E@murraysrockpile.com> this is the problem with a monoculture; viruses and infections spread rapidly. :( Everyone should consider the Red hats, Lindows and Apple Macs of the world! Just my biased two cents. PS a big rock thrown at any computer with said virus will, in fact, eliminate that virus AND stop it from spreading from your machine. Kinda like a bumper stickers I saw"The best way to change someone's mind is with a rock" ~KM Lesser artists borrow, great artists steal. -- Igor Stravinsky On Jul 20, 2004, at 5:30 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > Unfortunately, the new breed of virus we are seeing today contain their > own SMTP engine so they can effectively spoof the from address so you > never see any bounces (and if they do, they are coming from someone > else's computer). --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- From afox at drizzle.com Wed Jul 21 01:29:06 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Afox) Date: Wed Jul 21 00:03:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Message-ID: --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/html application/octet-stream --- StripMime Errors --- A message with no text/plain section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using plaintext formatting --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Jul 21 02:16:24 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Jul 21 02:16:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: quotes about rocks in real life References: <40FDB78D.5870@Tomaszewski.net> <3C4471FC-DAC2-11D8-9D3C-000A95AF049E@murraysrockpile.com> Message-ID: <002101c46f03$689162c0$6402a8c0@axel> Kris wrote > Kinda like a bumper stickers I saw"The best way to change someone's > mind is with a rock" That would make an impression, I'm sure ;-))) So, actually we collect arguments? Should I rename my collection of fluorescent minerals and call them "enlightened persuaders"? Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kris Murray" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 5:01 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] OT: Virus Warning (address book tricks) > this is the problem with a monoculture; viruses and infections spread > rapidly. :( > Everyone should consider the Red hats, Lindows and Apple Macs of the > world! > Just my biased two cents. > PS a big rock thrown at any computer with said virus will, in fact, > eliminate that virus AND stop it from spreading from your machine. > Kinda like a bumper stickers I saw"The best way to change someone's > mind is with a rock" > ~KM > Lesser artists borrow, great artists steal. -- Igor Stravinsky > On Jul 20, 2004, at 5:30 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > Unfortunately, the new breed of virus we are seeing today contain their > > own SMTP engine so they can effectively spoof the from address so you > > never see any bounces (and if they do, they are coming from someone > > else's computer). > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/enriched > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From pchil at botsnet.bw Wed Jul 14 06:02:00 2004 From: pchil at botsnet.bw (P.C. Hulley) Date: Wed Jul 21 06:04:13 2004 Subject: Fw: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick Message-ID: <001901c469a2$f27b45c0$2d48a7a8@hulley> O.K. Here's my 5 cents worth: Scratching for jasper and agate, Has become somewhat of a habit. As for fluorite and sheelite, things that glow in the night, I would simply reach out and grab it! Some rockhounds went out on a spree, To what they call a "Gemboree" Some rocks were collected, Much more than expected, What's more most of them were for free! Hildagarde Hulley in Botswana. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lanny To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com : A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 8:06 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick > It's time to liven things up a bit. I'm getting tired of glow worms, > the moon and other things non-earthly mineral related. So, here is > another free book. I meant to get this one out of here back in the time > of St. Patricks day, but due to the move and all the time-wasting crap > > related to that over the past three months, it didn't get done. > > > > The book is "The Mineral Kingdom" by Paul E. Desautels. It is good > > book, light on technical info with a chapter on just about every aspect > > of minerals, lots of color and b&w photos, 251 pages. Hardcover/cloth > > bound. I read it once, and it's just not that much use on my book shelf > > anymore (and considering that my bookshelf is a lot smaller than it > > used to be, some things have to go). > > > > So, the deal is, respond to this message (to the list so that everyone > > else can hate me for disturbing their day or love me for bringing them > > thousands of wonderful limericks) with an original limerick, written by > > you, that has something to do with minerals. They don't have to be > > tasteful, just what most people would consider acceptable to a family > > forum. The book goes to the person who sends in the one I like best, > > plus pays $3.00 s&h (more if out of the USA or Canada). > > > > You have until Wednesday (July 21). I am waiting for a phone call > > providing permission for a friend and I to visit a mine in south > > central Idaho, and if that happens to be around that time, then > > selection of the winner will be delayed a few days. > > > > (If per chance the winner does not want that book but would prefer one > > of these two: "Electron Microprobe Analysis, Second Edition" by S. J. > > B. Reed, 1993 or "Applied Mineral Inventory Estimation" by A. J. > > Sinclair and G. H. Blackwell 2002, then he or she can so choose.) > > > > I'm waiting. Entertain me. > > > > Lanny > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Wed Jul 21 06:57:34 2004 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Wed Jul 21 06:57:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick In-Reply-To: <001901c469a2$f27b45c0$2d48a7a8@hulley> Message-ID: OK two Limericks from Holland. Oi, had I only paid more attention in English class...... A miner way up in the Hills Was digging to pay his bills It was all agony and pain But when he struck that vein He knew he was digging for thrills And a more morbid one: A fellow collector from Penobsquis Dug underground for that Jaspis Big rumble gave him a fright Did not make it back to the light And now a fossil collector he is. Cheers, Maurice > It's time to liven things up a bit. I'm getting tired of glow worms, > the moon and other things non-earthly mineral related. So, here is > another free book. I meant to get this one out of here back in the time > of St. Patricks day, but due to the move and all the time-wasting crap > > related to that over the past three months, it didn't get done. > > > > The book is "The Mineral Kingdom" by Paul E. Desautels. It is good > > book, light on technical info with a chapter on just about every aspect > > of minerals, lots of color and b&w photos, 251 pages. Hardcover/cloth > > bound. I read it once, and it's just not that much use on my book shelf > > anymore (and considering that my bookshelf is a lot smaller than it > > used to be, some things have to go). > > > > So, the deal is, respond to this message (to the list so that everyone > > else can hate me for disturbing their day or love me for bringing them > > thousands of wonderful limericks) with an original limerick, written by > > you, that has something to do with minerals. They don't have to be > > tasteful, just what most people would consider acceptable to a family > > forum. The book goes to the person who sends in the one I like best, > > plus pays $3.00 s&h (more if out of the USA or Canada). > > > > You have until Wednesday (July 21). I am waiting for a phone call > > providing permission for a friend and I to visit a mine in south > > central Idaho, and if that happens to be around that time, then > > selection of the winner will be delayed a few days. > > > > (If per chance the winner does not want that book but would prefer one > > of these two: "Electron Microprobe Analysis, Second Edition" by S. J. > > B. Reed, 1993 or "Applied Mineral Inventory Estimation" by A. J. > > Sinclair and G. H. Blackwell 2002, then he or she can so choose.) > > > > I'm waiting. Entertain me. > > > > Lanny > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jbryankramer at msn.com Wed Jul 21 13:35:31 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Jul 21 13:35:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Virus Warning (address book tricks) In-Reply-To: <3C4471FC-DAC2-11D8-9D3C-000A95AF049E@murraysrockpile.com> Message-ID: just check out linux security.org and see how many vulnerabilities it has...a bunch I can tell you. More than windows. Bryan Lex et Libertas -- Semper Vigilo, Paratus, et Fidelis! > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Kris Murray > Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 22:01 > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] OT: Virus Warning (address book tricks) > > > this is the problem with a monoculture; viruses and infections spread > rapidly. :( > Everyone should consider the Red hats, Lindows and Apple Macs of the > world! > Just my biased two cents. > PS a big rock thrown at any computer with said virus will, in fact, > eliminate that virus AND stop it from spreading from your machine. > Kinda like a bumper stickers I saw"The best way to change someone's > mind is with a rock" > ~KM > Lesser artists borrow, great artists steal. -- Igor Stravinsky > On Jul 20, 2004, at 5:30 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > Unfortunately, the new breed of virus we are seeing today contain their > > own SMTP engine so they can effectively spoof the from address so you > > never see any bounces (and if they do, they are coming from someone > > else's computer). > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/enriched > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Jul 21 12:59:52 2004 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Wed Jul 21 15:06:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] NW Illinois Sites? References: <072120040300.3734.40FDDC40000CDC2F00000E9621603762239D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: <001201c46f5d$4dfd3ce0$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Hi List, Julie and I fly out to Chicago tomorrow for my mother's 90th b-day packing our party clothes and rock hammers. We'll end up camping near Rockford within driving distance of Galena, etc.in NW Illinois. Any good sites come to mind? Thanks! John From sauktown at adsnet.com Wed Jul 21 15:14:59 2004 From: sauktown at adsnet.com (Jim Daly) Date: Wed Jul 21 15:24:49 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bloomington, IN Show Message-ID: <000e01c46f70$346570a0$535204d0@jim> I've belatedly posted some pictures from last month's Bloomington show on my website. Go to www.sauktown.com , click on "Field Trips" and follow the links. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales Microminerals and mounting supplies http://www.sauktown.com sauktown@adsnet.com or orders@sauktown.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jul 21 15:44:22 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jul 21 15:41:33 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: quotes about rocks in real life References: <40FDB78D.5870@Tomaszewski.net> <3C4471FC-DAC2-11D8-9D3C-000A95AF049E@murraysrockpile.com> <002101c46f03$689162c0$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: <40FEF115.1345@Tomaszewski.net> Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock. -Will Rogers Axel Emmermann wrote: > > Kris wrote > > > Kinda like a bumper stickers I saw"The best way to change someone's > > mind is with a rock" > > That would make an impression, I'm sure ;-))) > So, actually we collect arguments? > Should I rename my collection of fluorescent minerals and call them > "enlightened persuaders"? > > Axel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kris Murray" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 5:01 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] OT: Virus Warning (address book tricks) > > > this is the problem with a monoculture; viruses and infections spread > > rapidly. :( > > Everyone should consider the Red hats, Lindows and Apple Macs of the > > world! > > Just my biased two cents. > > PS a big rock thrown at any computer with said virus will, in fact, > > eliminate that virus AND stop it from spreading from your machine. > > Kinda like a bumper stickers I saw"The best way to change someone's > > mind is with a rock" > > ~KM > > Lesser artists borrow, great artists steal. -- Igor Stravinsky > > On Jul 20, 2004, at 5:30 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > > > Unfortunately, the new breed of virus we are seeing today contain their > > > own SMTP engine so they can effectively spoof the from address so you > > > never see any bounces (and if they do, they are coming from someone > > > else's computer). > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/enriched > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From MCGINNISG at aol.com Wed Jul 21 17:06:09 2004 From: MCGINNISG at aol.com (MCGINNISG@aol.com) Date: Wed Jul 21 17:06:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock Shop Message-ID: <1e0.25da87b3.2e305ef1@aol.com> I stopped at a rock shop called the ROCK CASTLE in Lebanon Oregon on Monday. I was impressed. The owners were very nice, they have wonderful mineral specimens, rough material and better yet, they have excellent prices. They're located at 678 Main Street in Lebanon Oregon. This isn't an "AD", it was my first time there and I plan on going back. If your in the area, give them a visit. They're open Mon-Sat 10-6. Timm --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jul 21 19:03:38 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jul 21 19:00:19 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Virus Warning References: <75.2ec74818.2e2eddb6@aol.com> <6.0.3.0.2.20040720212810.02d21030@mail.adelphia.net> <003301c46ecd$ba9192b0$7f7f7f7f@eur.nai.com> Message-ID: <40FF1FAD.5C85@Tomaszewski.net> Jimmy, If you ever find time, I would love to see an updated/expanded version of your presentation that extends it thru the current brood of viri. I always learn something from your insight. Thanks for your great help in keeping us safe online, so we can continue to discuss rocks and minerals. Kreigh Jimmy Kuo wrote: > > I wrote this a couple years ago. But people may still find it sufficiently > informative. > > http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/workshops/security/comments/chengijimmykuo.pdf > > In it, I reference the Stay Safe Online Campaign. They're (We're) here: > > http://www.staysafeonline.info/ > > Jimmy > From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Wed Jul 21 19:34:30 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Wed Jul 21 19:34:31 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fossil Festival Message-ID: <007001c46f94$6a8b1800$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Hello, The Falls Fossil Festival is held Sept. 18 & 19, 2004 at the Falls of the Ohio State Park in Clarksville, Indiana (across the Ohio River from Louisville). We have had a couple of our vendors drop out this year. If you are interested in setting up contact me (not the list) directly. I'll be happy to give you the details. Among our guest speakers this year: Dr. James Farlow (Vertebrate Paleontologist), Ron Richards (Chief Curator of the Nature History Collections at the Indiana State Museum), Dr. Steve Greb (Geologist, educator with the Kentucky Geological Survey), Dallas Evans (Science Curator, Indianapolis Children's Museum), Rick Schrantz (KY Paleontological Society), etc. Regards, Alan Goldstein --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From cjkuo at verizon.net Wed Jul 21 20:08:29 2004 From: cjkuo at verizon.net (Jimmy Kuo) Date: Wed Jul 21 20:09:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Virus Warning References: <75.2ec74818.2e2eddb6@aol.com> <6.0.3.0.2.20040720212810.02d21030@mail.adelphia.net><003301c46ecd$ba9192b0$7f7f7f7f@eur.nai.com> <40FF1FAD.5C85@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <008501c46f99$2a0ea9e0$0b02a8c0@eur.nai.com> > If you ever find time, I would love to see an updated/expanded version > of your presentation that extends it thru the current brood of viri. I > always learn something from your insight. > > Thanks for your great help in keeping us safe online, so we can continue > to discuss rocks and minerals. I don't know if I'm going to be asked to update that one. Right now, I'm prepping a presentation for the FBI next week. I have to do 50 more slides. Took 5 hrs to do 4 new slides yesterday. :-( Jimmy From cjkuo at verizon.net Wed Jul 21 20:14:26 2004 From: cjkuo at verizon.net (Jimmy Kuo) Date: Wed Jul 21 20:15:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Virus Warning References: <75.2ec74818.2e2eddb6@aol.com> <6.0.3.0.2.20040720212810.02d21030@mail.adelphia.net><003301c46ecd$ba9192b0$7f7f7f7f@eur.nai.com><40FF1FAD.5C85@Tomaszewski.net> <008501c46f99$2a0ea9e0$0b02a8c0@eur.nai.com> Message-ID: <009701c46f99$ff37e870$0b02a8c0@eur.nai.com> Yikes! Sorry, last message was not meant for general distribution. Usually Kreigh writes to me directly on messages like that. Jimmy From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jul 21 20:33:05 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jul 21 20:33:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick References: Message-ID: <40FF356E.743B@Tomaszewski.net> Maurice, It may be morbid, but you paid enough attention to your English that I vote for your second Limerick as the contest winner; I hope Lanny agrees you best captured the true spirit of a Limerick. Thanks for the biggest laugh I've had in a long time. Kreigh (from Michigan) Maurice de Graaf wrote: > > OK two Limericks from Holland. Oi, had I only paid more attention in English > class...... > > A miner way up in the Hills > Was digging to pay his bills > It was all agony and pain > But when he struck that vein > He knew he was digging for thrills > > And a more morbid one: > > A fellow collector from Penobsquis > Dug underground for that Jaspis > Big rumble gave him a fright > Did not make it back to the light > And now a fossil collector he is. > > Cheers, > Maurice From kahako at aloha.net Wed Jul 21 21:51:58 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Jul 21 23:44:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick In-Reply-To: <40FF356E.743B@Tomaszewski.net> References: <40FF356E.743B@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040721184131.034e19a0@mail.aloha.net> Lanny, there's a thought for future contests: Let list members vote for their favorites! At 05:33 PM 7/21/2004, you wrote: >Maurice, > >It may be morbid, but you paid enough attention to your English that I >vote for your second Limerick as the contest winner; I hope Lanny agrees >you best captured the true spirit of a Limerick. Thanks for the biggest >laugh I've had in a long time. > >Kreigh >(from Michigan) > > > > >Maurice de Graaf wrote: > > > > OK two Limericks from Holland. Oi, had I only paid more attention in > English > > class...... > > > > A miner way up in the Hills > > Was digging to pay his bills > > It was all agony and pain > > But when he struck that vein > > He knew he was digging for thrills > > > > And a more morbid one: > > > > A fellow collector from Penobsquis > > Dug underground for that Jaspis > > Big rumble gave him a fright > > Did not make it back to the light > > And now a fossil collector he is. > > > > Cheers, > > Maurice From afox at drizzle.com Thu Jul 22 02:15:06 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Afox) Date: Thu Jul 22 00:49:57 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Message-ID: --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/html application/octet-stream --- StripMime Errors --- A message with no text/plain section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using plaintext formatting --- From afox at drizzle.com Thu Jul 22 02:44:42 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Afox) Date: Thu Jul 22 01:19:52 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Message-ID: --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/html application/octet-stream --- StripMime Errors --- A message with no text/plain section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using plaintext formatting --- From afox at drizzle.com Thu Jul 22 03:37:35 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Afox) Date: Thu Jul 22 02:12:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Message-ID: --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/html application/octet-stream --- StripMime Errors --- A message with no text/plain section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using plaintext formatting --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Jul 22 02:32:16 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Jul 22 02:32:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick References: <40FF356E.743B@Tomaszewski.net> <6.1.2.0.0.20040721184131.034e19a0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <003b01c46fce$cb1f78c0$6402a8c0@axel> > Lanny, there's a thought for future contests: Let list members vote for > their favorites! Yes, democracy at last............ I just joined the nit-pickers club... I thought a Limerick has to have the follow stucture: 9 syllables 9 syllables 5 or 6 syllables 5 or 6 syllables 9 syllables Yesterday it was a commemoration day of Armstrong setting foot on the moon... it was also an Armstrong who won another episode in the Tour de France... I found the small image from E.T. below both symbolic AND hilarious. Biking to the moon? Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 6:51 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick > Lanny, there's a thought for future contests: Let list members vote for > their favorites! > > At 05:33 PM 7/21/2004, you wrote: > >Maurice, > > > >It may be morbid, but you paid enough attention to your English that I > >vote for your second Limerick as the contest winner; I hope Lanny agrees > >you best captured the true spirit of a Limerick. Thanks for the biggest > >laugh I've had in a long time. > > > >Kreigh > >(from Michigan) > > > > > > > > > >Maurice de Graaf wrote: > > > > > > OK two Limericks from Holland. Oi, had I only paid more attention in > > English > > > class...... > > > > > > A miner way up in the Hills > > > Was digging to pay his bills > > > It was all agony and pain > > > But when he struck that vein > > > He knew he was digging for thrills > > > > > > And a more morbid one: > > > > > > A fellow collector from Penobsquis > > > Dug underground for that Jaspis > > > Big rumble gave him a fright > > > Did not make it back to the light > > > And now a fossil collector he is. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Maurice > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related text/plain (text body -- kept) application/octet-stream --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Jul 22 03:21:23 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Jul 22 03:21:49 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: quotes about rocks in real life References: <40FDB78D.5870@Tomaszewski.net> <3C4471FC-DAC2-11D8-9D3C-000A95AF049E@murraysrockpile.com><002101c46f03$689162c0$6402a8c0@axel> <40FEF115.1345@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <005e01c46fd5$a9e8a5d0$6402a8c0@axel> A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral. --Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry (1900-44), French writer Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 12:44 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] OT: quotes about rocks in real life > Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock. > -Will Rogers > > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > Kris wrote > > > > > Kinda like a bumper stickers I saw"The best way to change someone's > > > mind is with a rock" > > > > That would make an impression, I'm sure ;-))) > > So, actually we collect arguments? > > Should I rename my collection of fluorescent minerals and call them > > "enlightened persuaders"? > > > > Axel > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kris Murray" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 5:01 AM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] OT: Virus Warning (address book tricks) > > > > > this is the problem with a monoculture; viruses and infections spread > > > rapidly. :( > > > Everyone should consider the Red hats, Lindows and Apple Macs of the > > > world! > > > Just my biased two cents. > > > PS a big rock thrown at any computer with said virus will, in fact, > > > eliminate that virus AND stop it from spreading from your machine. > > > Kinda like a bumper stickers I saw"The best way to change someone's > > > mind is with a rock" > > > ~KM > > > Lesser artists borrow, great artists steal. -- Igor Stravinsky > > > On Jul 20, 2004, at 5:30 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > > > > > Unfortunately, the new breed of virus we are seeing today contain their > > > > own SMTP engine so they can effectively spoof the from address so you > > > > never see any bounces (and if they do, they are coming from someone > > > > else's computer). > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > multipart/alternative > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > text/enriched > > > --- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From shm at tapnet.net Thu Jul 22 07:59:28 2004 From: shm at tapnet.net (SHM) Date: Thu Jul 22 08:00:25 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: quotes about rocks in real life In-Reply-To: <005e01c46fd5$a9e8a5d0$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: <000101c46ffc$9ae2c0d0$afe4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Well, Axel, I suppose that leaves us married men out, doesn't it? No cathedrals for the likes of us . . . Cheers! Earl -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 6:21 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] OT: quotes about rocks in real life A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral. --Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry (1900-44), French writer Axel From kahako at aloha.net Thu Jul 22 10:39:54 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Jul 22 10:13:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick In-Reply-To: <003b01c46fce$cb1f78c0$6402a8c0@axel> References: <40FF356E.743B@Tomaszewski.net> <6.1.2.0.0.20040721184131.034e19a0@mail.aloha.net> <003b01c46fce$cb1f78c0$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040722073751.02ebae80@mail.aloha.net> At 11:32 PM 7/21/2004, you wrote: >... I found the small image from E.T. below both symbolic AND >hilarious. Biking to the moon? > >Axel There was nothing "below" on the message as it appeared to me. Was it a URL? Kitty From teyancey at mail.tca.net Thu Jul 22 13:53:49 2004 From: teyancey at mail.tca.net (Thomas Yancey) Date: Thu Jul 22 13:53:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock Shop In-Reply-To: <1e0.25da87b3.2e305ef1@aol.com> References: <1e0.25da87b3.2e305ef1@aol.com> Message-ID: I would like to add to this type of suggestion with a note about the rock shop in Hanksville, Utah. This is in the canyon country east of Capitol Reef Natl. Park. It is an old-fashioned type of show, small and with piles of rock all around, and has all kinds of rock. Mostly rough lapidary rock and fossils. The owner is very friendly and informative and has many years of experience collecting in the Henry Mountains area. The good material is inside and out back. There are several type of dinosaur coprolite rough there and many kinds of petrified wood, but most impressive are the huge sauropod leg bones. Personally, I was fascinated with the lovely specimens of silicified fern and cycads. Although I do not do lapidary work, I had a great time looking at the rough material and learning about the area. Well worth the time to stop and visit. I was pleased to get some uncut Ourdreville septarian concretions while there. Tom Yancey >I stopped at a rock shop called the ROCK CASTLE in Lebanon Oregon on Monday. >I was impressed. The owners were very nice, they have wonderful mineral >specimens, rough material and better yet, they have excellent prices. They're >located at 678 Main Street in Lebanon Oregon. >This isn't an "AD", it was my first time there and I plan on going back. If >your in the area, give them a visit. They're open Mon-Sat 10-6. From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Jul 22 14:57:13 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Jul 22 14:57:20 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: quotes about rocks in real life References: <000101c46ffc$9ae2c0d0$afe4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <000c01c47036$dc0ef850$6402a8c0@axel> Right on, Earl. Tool-sheds instead !!! A pile of wood ceases to be a pile of wood the moment a married men contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a tool-shed. --Axel Emmermann (1952 - not yet expired), Belgian nutcase and notorious plagiarist-- Just found a forgotten case of Steendonk in some far off supermarket ... Great grease for dry throats on a hot day. BTW: there's a thunderstorm heading this way... the air is so moist that my empty beer bottles float to the ceiling. Cheers (give some greeting to the colleagues of the SHM and TWMF) Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "SHM" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 4:59 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] OT: quotes about rocks in real life Well, Axel, I suppose that leaves us married men out, doesn't it? No cathedrals for the likes of us . . . Cheers! Earl -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 6:21 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] OT: quotes about rocks in real life A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral. --Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry (1900-44), French writer Axel _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Jul 22 15:11:59 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Jul 22 15:12:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick References: <40FF356E.743B@Tomaszewski.net><6.1.2.0.0.20040721184131.034e19a0@mail.aloha.net><003b01c46fce$cb1f78c0$6402a8c0@axel> <6.1.2.0.0.20040722073751.02ebae80@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <001601c47038$ec256650$6402a8c0@axel> Hi Kitty, I forgot that pictures and other attachments are stripped off messages sent to the list... It was the famous shot of E.T. (from Spielberg's movie E.T.) riding a bike through the air passing in fromt of the full moon http://www.komericanjournal.com/nightmare000.files/moon_et.gif.jpg Seemed appropriate somehow... Armstrong-moon-bike-tour-de-France ;-))) Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick > At 11:32 PM 7/21/2004, you wrote: > >... I found the small image from E.T. below both symbolic AND > >hilarious. Biking to the moon? > > > >Axel > > There was nothing "below" on the message as it appeared to me. Was it a URL? > > Kitty > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From lanny at lrream.com Thu Jul 22 16:03:05 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Thu Jul 22 16:02:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20040721184131.034e19a0@mail.aloha.net> References: <40FF356E.743B@Tomaszewski.net> <6.1.2.0.0.20040721184131.034e19a0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <4A852464-DC33-11D8-8DAA-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi, I'm back from Montana. Great country (Pioneer Mtns. SW of Butte), fair collecting. Love the wilds and mountains! Even saw a rock or two. Now that I'm back and the contest is over (yesterday, Wednesday July 21 was the last day). I'll have to grab a cold beer and go through those limericks again and pick the winner. I've thought of letting the list vote. I could get rid of a another book or two. Any suggestions as to the nature of the next contest? Lanny On Jul 21, 2004, at 9:51 PM, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > Lanny, there's a thought for future contests: Let list members vote > for their favorites! From kahako at aloha.net Thu Jul 22 17:02:23 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Jul 22 16:36:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick In-Reply-To: <4A852464-DC33-11D8-8DAA-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> References: <40FF356E.743B@Tomaszewski.net> <6.1.2.0.0.20040721184131.034e19a0@mail.aloha.net> <4A852464-DC33-11D8-8DAA-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040722135841.03254050@mail.aloha.net> How about something (about rocks or minerals, of course) written in the style of a well-known poet or author? We could even try to guess whose style it was supposed to be. Aloha, Kitty At 01:03 PM 7/22/2004, you wrote: >Hi, >....I've thought of letting the list vote. I could get rid of a another >book or two. Any suggestions as to the nature of the next contest? > >Lanny From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Jul 22 17:17:38 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Jul 22 17:17:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock Shop(s) References: <1e0.25da87b3.2e305ef1@aol.com> Message-ID: <000c01c4704a$766c0ce0$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> Speaking of Rock Shops, we'll be traveling from Salt Lake City to Yellowstone, then down to Denver, then back thru NM, TX, LA, to Alabama. We'd love to hear of good rock shops and places to do some rock hunting along the way. All suggestions will be appreciated. Jeanette and Glenn From Lapadary at aol.com Thu Jul 22 17:58:33 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Thu Jul 22 17:58:42 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick Message-ID: --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Jul 22 19:21:17 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Jul 22 19:18:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Contest for a Book References: <40FF356E.743B@Tomaszewski.net> <6.1.2.0.0.20040721184131.034e19a0@mail.aloha.net> <4A852464-DC33-11D8-8DAA-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <41007560.638@Tomaszewski.net> Lanny wrote: > book or two. Any suggestions as to the nature of the next contest? > > Lanny Lanny, Lots of ideas...off the top of my head... You can always explore other literary forms (haiku, quatrains, etc) looking for original works. You could ask for quotations about rocks/minerals (must be able to confirm the quote by putting it into Google and get at least one hit). Link submissions -- most perfect crystal, prettiest agate, best preserved fossil, best type locality specimen, or whatever you might like us all to search for. Best lapidary tip in 100 words or less. Best suggestion for recruiting new rockhounds (to join a club). Best field trip report (could be a repeat of one you took in the past five years, or a link to someone else's report of a trip in the past five years). The classic 'you know you are a rockhound if ...' contest. ...and of course, a book to whomever thinks up the best contest. Kreigh From iceage at adelphia.net Thu Jul 22 22:49:45 2004 From: iceage at adelphia.net (Patrick M. Harvey) Date: Thu Jul 22 19:46:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Contest for a Book In-Reply-To: <41007560.638@Tomaszewski.net> References: <40FF356E.743B@Tomaszewski.net> <6.1.2.0.0.20040721184131.034e19a0@mail.aloha.net> <4A852464-DC33-11D8-8DAA-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <41007560.638@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040722224745.0321feb0@mail.adelphia.net> I vote for these, especially the middle one ;*) Patrick - were we supposed to vote? I'm confused... At 07:21 PM 7/22/04, you wrote: >Best lapidary tip in 100 words or less. > >Best suggestion for recruiting new rockhounds (to join a club). > >Best field trip report (could be a repeat of one you took in the past >five years, or a link to someone else's report of a trip in the past >five years). Patrick M. Harvey NAR 81752 L2 Bluegrass Rocketry Society NAR# 657 - Advisor Visit the BluesRockS website: www.bluesrocks.org Kentucky TARC teams welcome! From afox at drizzle.com Fri Jul 23 02:22:00 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Afox) Date: Fri Jul 23 00:56:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Message-ID: --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/html image/bmp application/octet-stream --- StripMime Errors --- A message with no text/plain section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using plaintext formatting --- From afox at drizzle.com Fri Jul 23 03:20:51 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Afox) Date: Fri Jul 23 01:55:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Message-ID: --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/html application/octet-stream --- StripMime Errors --- A message with no text/plain section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using plaintext formatting --- From afox at drizzle.com Fri Jul 23 03:27:48 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Afox) Date: Fri Jul 23 02:02:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Message-ID: --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/html application/octet-stream --- StripMime Errors --- A message with no text/plain section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using plaintext formatting --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Jul 23 03:11:34 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Jul 23 03:12:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Contest for a Book References: <40FF356E.743B@Tomaszewski.net> <6.1.2.0.0.20040721184131.034e19a0@mail.aloha.net><4A852464-DC33-11D8-8DAA-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <41007560.638@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <003d01c4709d$725dc1e0$6402a8c0@axel> Or use mineral names in a completely normal sentence... Here's my first entry (yep, there's a mineral in there): "It's hot son, it even burns you if your not careful" or another funny one: "Carl fries it even better in olive oil." or "With Carl in it, every car looks small". Who would have thought that minerals can be used in so many playful ways ;-))) Cheers ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 4:21 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New Contest for a Book > Lanny wrote: > > book or two. Any suggestions as to the nature of the next contest? > > > > Lanny > > > Lanny, > > Lots of ideas...off the top of my head... > > You can always explore other literary forms (haiku, quatrains, etc) > looking for original works. > > You could ask for quotations about rocks/minerals (must be able to > confirm the quote by putting it into Google and get at least one hit). > > Link submissions -- most perfect crystal, prettiest agate, best > preserved fossil, best type locality specimen, or whatever you might > like us all to search for. > > Best lapidary tip in 100 words or less. > > Best suggestion for recruiting new rockhounds (to join a club). > > Best field trip report (could be a repeat of one you took in the past > five years, or a link to someone else's report of a trip in the past > five years). > > The classic 'you know you are a rockhound if ...' contest. > > ...and of course, a book to whomever thinks up the best contest. > > Kreigh > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From Hammerron at aol.com Fri Jul 23 04:06:58 2004 From: Hammerron at aol.com (Hammerron@aol.com) Date: Fri Jul 23 04:08:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Contest for a Book Message-ID: <129.46bea2a3.2e324b52@aol.com> I really liked your thoughts Kreigh: You got my mind starting to click (oh no): best lapidary tip best field trip report favorite website best original photograph (I can post to a temporary web page to view them since we cannot sent attachments here) probably can come up with more after my first cup of coffee. -Ron http://www.hammerron.com/minerals ...sound great how about also: best tips for topic/activity for a club to do (at meetings) best tip to organize collection In a message dated 7/22/2004 10:18:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: Lanny wrote: > book or two. Any suggestions as to the nature of the next contest? > > Lanny Lanny, Lots of ideas...off the top of my head... You can always explore other literary forms (haiku, quatrains, etc) looking for original works. You could ask for quotations about rocks/minerals (must be able to confirm the quote by putting it into Google and get at least one hit). Link submissions -- most perfect crystal, prettiest agate, best preserved fossil, best type locality specimen, or whatever you might like us all to search for. Best lapidary tip in 100 words or less. Best suggestion for recruiting new rockhounds (to join a club). Best field trip report (could be a repeat of one you took in the past five years, or a link to someone else's report of a trip in the past five years). The classic 'you know you are a rockhound if ...' contest. ...and of course, a book to whomever thinks up the best contest. Kreigh --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From afox at drizzle.com Fri Jul 23 06:22:15 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Fri Jul 23 06:22:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Virii (sigh) Message-ID: I've had to add myself to the 'Moderated' list in Mailman, as the spam that comes in forged as me goes straight to the list. Sorry for the inconvenience, but do know that I am not the source of the spam (Unix email client and all that...:-) I am going to examine going to full moderation with rockhounds this weekend. More details on Monday. Aaron Rockhounds Admin -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox Highway Patrolman: "Sir, do you know how fast you were going?" Heisenberg: "No, but I know EXACTLY where I was!" From pjmodreski at att.net Fri Jul 23 08:22:20 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Fri Jul 23 08:22:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Virii (sigh) Message-ID: <072320041522.20135.41012D2B000A416900004EA7216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Hey, Aaron, that's life (on the internet), it's no big deal for us to just click "delete" on all those bogus Re: messages that say they are from you. I think there were 3 or 4 to our list this morning--but it only takes a moment to delete them. Thanks for running & moderating the list & putting up with all this! Pete -------------- Original message from Aaron Fox : -------------- > I've had to add myself to the 'Moderated' list in Mailman, as the spam > that comes in forged as me goes straight to the list. Sorry for the > inconvenience, but do know that I am not the source of the spam (Unix > email client and all that...:-) > > I am going to examine going to full moderation with rockhounds this > weekend. More details on Monday. > > Aaron > Rockhounds Admin > > -- > afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox > Highway Patrolman: "Sir, do you know how fast you were going?" > Heisenberg: "No, but I know EXACTLY where I was!" > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Fri Jul 23 08:24:00 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Fri Jul 23 08:24:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Contest for a Book Message-ID: <072320041524.21549.41012D90000919880000542D216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> How about, "My favorite mineral, and why, in (25?) words or less?" Pete --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From hbarwood at troyst.edu Fri Jul 23 08:34:33 2004 From: hbarwood at troyst.edu (Henry Barwood) Date: Fri Jul 23 08:33:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Contest for a Book In-Reply-To: <072320041524.21549.41012D90000919880000542D216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: How about my LEAST favorite mineral I vote for whewellite because I've collected two samples as kidney stones, from my kidneys! Henry -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of pjmodreski@att.net Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 10:24 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New Contest for a Book How about, "My favorite mineral, and why, in (25?) words or less?" Pete --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From morningstar at att.net Fri Jul 23 08:43:58 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Fri Jul 23 08:44:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Contest for a Book Message-ID: <072320041543.21428.4101323E00005C62000053B421587667209D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> So where are my micromounts? I'm still waiting for some anthropogenic whewellite! I always hear, "the doctor took them," "the doctor thought I was nuts," etc. Don > How about my LEAST favorite mineral > > I vote for whewellite because I've collected two samples as kidney stones, > from my kidneys! > > Henry > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of > pjmodreski@att.net > Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 10:24 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New Contest for a Book > > > How about, > > "My favorite mineral, and why, in (25?) words or less?" > > Pete > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From hbarwood at troyst.edu Fri Jul 23 08:59:06 2004 From: hbarwood at troyst.edu (Henry Barwood) Date: Fri Jul 23 08:57:49 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Contest for a Book In-Reply-To: <072320041543.21428.4101323E00005C62000053B421587667209D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: Sorry, the MD's took the first one, and I ground up the second one to analyze. Henry -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of morningstar@att.net Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 10:44 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] New Contest for a Book So where are my micromounts? I'm still waiting for some anthropogenic whewellite! I always hear, "the doctor took them," "the doctor thought I was nuts," etc. Don > How about my LEAST favorite mineral > > I vote for whewellite because I've collected two samples as kidney stones, > from my kidneys! > > Henry > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of > pjmodreski@att.net > Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 10:24 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New Contest for a Book > > > How about, > > "My favorite mineral, and why, in (25?) words or less?" > > Pete > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Jul 23 09:18:44 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Jul 23 09:18:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Contest for a Book References: <40FF356E.743B@Tomaszewski.net> <6.1.2.0.0.20040721184131.034e19a0@mail.aloha.net><4A852464-DC33-11D8-8DAA-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <41007560.638@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <008d01c470d0$bdc80f90$6402a8c0@axel> Somehow this message seems to have got(ten) lost so I'll send it again... So sorry if you got it twice ;-))) Maybe use mineral names in an otherwise completely normal sentence... Here's my first entry (yep, there's a mineral in there): "It's hot son, it even burns you if your not careful" or another funny one: "Carl fries it even better in olive oil." or "With Carl in it, every car looks small". I'm sure you all picked out the hotsonite, carlfriesite and carlinite.... There must be hundreds of these in the glossary. Who would have thought that minerals can be used in so many playful ways ;-))) Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 4:21 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New Contest for a Book > Lanny wrote: > > book or two. Any suggestions as to the nature of the next contest? > > > > Lanny > > > Lanny, > > Lots of ideas...off the top of my head... > > You can always explore other literary forms (haiku, quatrains, etc) > looking for original works. > > You could ask for quotations about rocks/minerals (must be able to > confirm the quote by putting it into Google and get at least one hit). > > Link submissions -- most perfect crystal, prettiest agate, best > preserved fossil, best type locality specimen, or whatever you might > like us all to search for. > > Best lapidary tip in 100 words or less. > > Best suggestion for recruiting new rockhounds (to join a club). > > Best field trip report (could be a repeat of one you took in the past > five years, or a link to someone else's report of a trip in the past > five years). > > The classic 'you know you are a rockhound if ...' contest. > > ...and of course, a book to whomever thinks up the best contest. > > Kreigh > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From pjmodreski at att.net Fri Jul 23 09:40:40 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Fri Jul 23 09:40:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] hotsonite Message-ID: <072320041640.25754.41013F87000C29770000649A216037622307059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Hi Axel, Well, your first line mystified me, I figured it had to be "hotsonite", but (stubbornly refusing, of course, to look it up in my Glossary) I've sure never heard of that mineral. Where in the heck did you ever hear of "hotsonite"? It's sure not in my mineral vocabulary, so congratulations to you, for knowing such a thing exists! [I forget now, Axel, are you a micromounter? Micromounters know about all sort of weird stuff, that nobody else ever knows [or cares, might I dare to say?] about? Ditto for fluorescent freaks. And species collectors... I guess they are the ultimate. [Hey, now that I've insulted half the people on the list, you all know that I'm writing very much tongue in cheek here, right?!] [P.S., I did just look it up, couldn't resist, I see it's from South Africa, which is what I had kind of guessed. I must have had some subliminal memory of reading about it, or else it just "sounded" like a South African/Kalahari type mineral.] cheers, Pete -------------- Original message from "Axel Emmermann" : -------------- > Somehow this message seems to have got(ten) lost so I'll send it again... So > sorry if you got it twice ;-))) > > Maybe use mineral names in an otherwise completely normal sentence... > > Here's my first entry (yep, there's a mineral in there): "It's hot son, it > even burns you if your not careful" --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From afox at drizzle.com Fri Jul 23 11:08:44 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Afox) Date: Fri Jul 23 09:43:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Message-ID: --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/html application/octet-stream --- StripMime Errors --- A message with no text/plain section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using plaintext formatting --- From afox at drizzle.com Fri Jul 23 11:52:36 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Afox) Date: Fri Jul 23 10:27:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Message-ID: --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/html application/octet-stream --- StripMime Errors --- A message with no text/plain section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using plaintext formatting --- From afox at drizzle.com Fri Jul 23 12:13:42 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Afox) Date: Fri Jul 23 10:48:31 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Message-ID: --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/html application/octet-stream --- StripMime Errors --- A message with no text/plain section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using plaintext formatting --- From jabac at hal-pc.org Fri Jul 23 11:23:38 2004 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Fri Jul 23 11:18:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Presenting the One and Only... Message-ID: <1090607018.2876.54.camel@localhost> Who goes there? While peaceably eating my dinner one night Interrupted I was by that LOL of delight How can there be peace when Axel's about? World Peace, no less; the demand is too stout! Though a gadfly 'tis true His words ring so blue There's many a teacher with cause to rue The fact he sat in their class or two Third row, chair two was his style There to opine with mischievous smile Every whim, every wisp, every element of guile Launching diatribes wicked and mild At everyone, grownup and child Some thought him hectic; some dyspeptic Some thought him unseemly wild Some it would seem...still do But fear not, gentle reader; be of good cheer Twas not madness nor sadness, not clinical fear Not effervescence, not efflorescence Nor even fluorescence Twas only the beer So though my dinner may sometimes grow slightly old While reading the writing so charming and bold Still what would we do without such a glow? Worming its way into our each daily show Warming them over with good gentle laugh Even if ever so slightly daft Bereft we would be without such a soul And this rocky world would be... A bit less than whole. Thanks for being Axel. Axel. john From rik.dillen at skynet.be Fri Jul 23 11:21:36 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Fri Jul 23 11:22:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds list ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000701c470e1$e7670f20$f69388d9@maxdata> Dear all, Just 2 concerns : 1) I'm receiving a message like the one below about 5-6 times a day, since several days. Does anyone know what happens ? 2) It's ages ago that I learnt something about mineralogy. Most of the postings of the last few weeks are, IMHO, off topic, and belong more on a literature or eloquence list. May be funny sometimes, but I'm afraid I will leave this list if I can't learn anything anymore about mineralogy here. Please don't be offended, and also don't think that I don't have any sense of humor... this list is just not what I expect from it anymore. Best regards, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15 B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium Tel. + 32 3 7706007 E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Afox *Sent: vrijdag 23 juli 2004 21:14 *To: Rockhounds *Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: * * *--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed * text/html * application/octet-stream *--- StripMime Errors --- *A message with no text/plain section was received. *The entire body of the message was removed. Please *resend the email using plaintext formatting *--- *_______________________________________________ *Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List *WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds *Subscription Services: *http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds * * From dguin at earthlink.net Fri Jul 23 12:53:17 2004 From: dguin at earthlink.net (Dave Guin) Date: Fri Jul 23 12:53:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Presenting the One and Only... In-Reply-To: <1090607018.2876.54.camel@localhost> References: <1090607018.2876.54.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <41016CAD.4090002@earthlink.net> john wrote: >Who goes there? > > > BRAVO! From dguin at earthlink.net Fri Jul 23 12:57:40 2004 From: dguin at earthlink.net (Dave Guin) Date: Fri Jul 23 12:57:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds list ? In-Reply-To: <000701c470e1$e7670f20$f69388d9@maxdata> References: <000701c470e1$e7670f20$f69388d9@maxdata> Message-ID: <41016DB4.9050706@earthlink.net> Rik Dillen wrote: >Please don't be offended, and also don't think that I don't have any sense of humor... this list is just not what I expect from it >anymore. > > Even minerals can change over time. Conditions shift --> content shifts. I prefer my minerals with a bit of matrix attached. Peace, dave From BETDAV97 at aol.com Fri Jul 23 13:13:53 2004 From: BETDAV97 at aol.com (BETDAV97@aol.com) Date: Fri Jul 23 13:13:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds list ? Message-ID: <155.3a5f23a9.2e32cb81@aol.com> Hi Rik, None of it is of interest to me either, I just use the delete key a lot. Something will come up of interest eventually. It is summer and some folks have a need to do something. Have a good one, Dave --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny at lrream.com Fri Jul 23 13:29:18 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Fri Jul 23 13:28:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Contest for a Book In-Reply-To: <008d01c470d0$bdc80f90$6402a8c0@axel> References: <40FF356E.743B@Tomaszewski.net> <6.1.2.0.0.20040721184131.034e19a0@mail.aloha.net><4A852464-DC33-11D8-8DAA-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <41007560.638@Tomaszewski.net> <008d01c470d0$bdc80f90$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: Some very interesting ideas coming along. But Axel, this one is just too difficult. That's a lot of work piecing together the mineral names when you keep putting spaces between "syllables" like that. Really god though. Lanny On Jul 23, 2004, at 9:18 AM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Somehow this message seems to have got(ten) lost so I'll send it > again... So > sorry if you got it twice ;-))) > > Maybe use mineral names in an otherwise completely normal sentence... > > Here's my first entry (yep, there's a mineral in there): "It's hot > son, it > even burns you if your not careful" > > or another funny one: "Carl fries it even better in olive oil." or > "With > Carl in it, every car looks small". > > I'm sure you all picked out the hotsonite, carlfriesite and > carlinite.... > There must be hundreds of these in the glossary. > Who would have thought that minerals can be used in so many playful > ways > ;-))) > > Cheers > > Axel > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > > Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 4:21 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New Contest for a Book > > >> Lanny wrote: >>> book or two. Any suggestions as to the nature of the next contest? >>> >>> Lanny >> >> >> Lanny, >> >> Lots of ideas...off the top of my head... >> >> You can always explore other literary forms (haiku, quatrains, etc) >> looking for original works. >> >> You could ask for quotations about rocks/minerals (must be able to >> confirm the quote by putting it into Google and get at least one hit). >> >> Link submissions -- most perfect crystal, prettiest agate, best >> preserved fossil, best type locality specimen, or whatever you might >> like us all to search for. >> >> Best lapidary tip in 100 words or less. >> >> Best suggestion for recruiting new rockhounds (to join a club). >> >> Best field trip report (could be a repeat of one you took in the past >> five years, or a link to someone else's report of a trip in the past >> five years). >> >> The classic 'you know you are a rockhound if ...' contest. >> >> ...and of course, a book to whomever thinks up the best contest. >> >> Kreigh >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From tjokela at execulink.com Fri Jul 23 15:11:44 2004 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Fri Jul 23 15:11:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] hotsonite References: <072320041640.25754.41013F87000C29770000649A216037622307059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <008f01c47102$0a4bf580$6401a8c0@Junior> Well, you know how the town Hotazel came by its name, don't you? Clue: baking hot desert. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] hotsonite > Hi Axel, > > Well, your first line mystified me, I figured it had to be "hotsonite", but (stubbornly refusing, of course, to look it up in my Glossary) I've sure never heard of that mineral. Where in the heck did you ever hear of "hotsonite"? It's sure not in my mineral vocabulary, so congratulations to you, for knowing such a thing exists! [I forget now, Axel, are you a micromounter? Micromounters know about all sort of weird stuff, that nobody else ever knows [or cares, might I dare to say?] about? Ditto for fluorescent freaks. And species collectors... I guess they are the ultimate. [Hey, now that I've insulted half the people on the list, you all know that I'm writing very much tongue in cheek here, right?!] > > [P.S., I did just look it up, couldn't resist, I see it's from South Africa, which is what I had kind of guessed. I must have had some subliminal memory of reading about it, or else it just "sounded" like a South African/Kalahari type mineral.] > > cheers, Pete > > -------------- Original message from "Axel Emmermann" : -------------- > > Somehow this message seems to have got(ten) lost so I'll send it again... So > > sorry if you got it twice ;-))) > > > > Maybe use mineral names in an otherwise completely normal sentence... > > > > Here's my first entry (yep, there's a mineral in there): "It's hot son, it > > even burns you if your not careful" > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jul 23 15:59:55 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jul 23 15:54:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds list ? References: <000701c470e1$e7670f20$f69388d9@maxdata> Message-ID: <41019709.2AD3@Tomaszewski.net> Rik, The empty messages are due to someone in Spain (probably a list member) with a virus sending to the list. The virus is stripped out by the list server as an attachment, and the empty message shell is delivered to the list. Aaron is looking into a way to stop them. And yes, the list has gone off on some less serious discussions recently. This is in part due to a lack of good questions/subjects raised by list members. Kreigh Rik Dillen wrote: > > Dear all, > > Just 2 concerns : > 1) I'm receiving a message like the one below about 5-6 times a day, since several days. Does anyone know what happens ? > 2) It's ages ago that I learnt something about mineralogy. Most of the postings of the last few weeks are, IMHO, off topic, and > belong more on a literature or eloquence list. May be funny sometimes, but I'm afraid I will leave this list if I can't learn > anything anymore about mineralogy here. > > Please don't be offended, and also don't think that I don't have any sense of humor... this list is just not what I expect from it > anymore. > Best regards, > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15 > B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > Belgium > > Tel. + 32 3 7706007 > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) > >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! > >>> Exchange list > > MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! > > *-----Original Message----- > *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Afox > *Sent: vrijdag 23 juli 2004 21:14 > *To: Rockhounds > *Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: > * > * > *--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed > * text/html > * application/octet-stream > *--- StripMime Errors --- > *A message with no text/plain section was received. > *The entire body of the message was removed. Please > *resend the email using plaintext formatting > *--- > *_______________________________________________ > *Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > *WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > *Subscription Services: > *http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > * > * > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From davisj at earthlink.net Fri Jul 23 16:40:32 2004 From: davisj at earthlink.net (Joe Davis) Date: Fri Jul 23 16:40:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polishing compounds and the like for Ak jade Message-ID: Im confused. I have heard that chromium oxide is the compound to use for Alaska jade then I have heard cerium oxide. I had someone say to use cerium oxide somewhat dry. Today I had someone say this jade should be polished hot. I thought heat was a no no and was the cause of the orange peak effect I see. What advise does the membership have. Joe From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jul 23 17:30:21 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jul 23 17:24:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] CNC Machines for Working Stone Message-ID: <4101AC2E.700E@Tomaszewski.net> I expect this long URL will wrap... http://www.stoneworld.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/features/BNP__Features__Item/0,4046,65312,00.html But I think you will enjoy the peek into the world of working stone commercially. Kreigh From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jul 23 18:04:16 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jul 23 17:58:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Virii (sigh) References: Message-ID: <4101B41D.6113@Tomaszewski.net> Aaron, I appreciate you stepping in to remove the irritant messages, but I don't think the problem has reached the level where full moderation is needed. The timeliness of an unmoderated list of often of value. I would support moderation of new users until they demonstrate they are not spammers, and moderation of spoofed addresses when deleting their virus shells becomes an irritant. But not the whole list. Just my two cents... Kreigh Aaron Fox wrote: > > I've had to add myself to the 'Moderated' list in Mailman, as the spam > that comes in forged as me goes straight to the list. Sorry for the > inconvenience, but do know that I am not the source of the spam (Unix > email client and all that...:-) > > I am going to examine going to full moderation with rockhounds this > weekend. More details on Monday. > > Aaron > Rockhounds Admin From kahako at aloha.net Fri Jul 23 19:54:34 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Jul 23 19:28:15 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds list ? In-Reply-To: <000701c470e1$e7670f20$f69388d9@maxdata> References: <000701c470e1$e7670f20$f69388d9@maxdata> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040723155301.02ed5720@mail.aloha.net> At 08:21 AM 7/23/2004, Rik Dillen wrote: >... It's ages ago that I learnt something about mineralogy. Most of the >postings of the last few weeks are, IMHO, off topic, and belong more on a >literature or eloquence list. May be funny sometimes, but I'm afraid I >will leave this list if I can't learn >anything anymore about mineralogy here.... Just 3 things here: 1. It's summer, in many places the weather is awful, and some people just tend to get silly for a while. It's not a serious and permanent deficiency in the list. 2. The thing I like about this list is that it has variety. It's nice to have Lanny lighten up the topics occasionally, to have Axel make us laugh, Kreigh provide all the facts, a story from John Cornish, side trips into weather and astronomy, and then people like you to get us back on track. I agree with Dave Guin: sometimes a bit of matrix is a good thing. 3. The way to get us back on track is to ask a good question about minerals or collecting. (Actually I think Kreigh already said something like that.) Aloha, Kitty From geenet2 at mchsi.com Fri Jul 23 19:36:02 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Fri Jul 23 19:36:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds list ? References: <000701c470e1$e7670f20$f69388d9@maxdata> Message-ID: <001d01c47126$f6be9e80$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> Rocks have been and will be around for a long time....people won't. If "socializing" with fellow rockhounds while learning, OR contributing is unenjoyable. Bye! Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rik Dillen" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 1:21 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds list ? > Dear all, > > Just 2 concerns : > 1) I'm receiving a message like the one below about 5-6 times a day, since several days. Does anyone know what happens ? > 2) It's ages ago that I learnt something about mineralogy. Most of the postings of the last few weeks are, IMHO, off topic, and > belong more on a literature or eloquence list. May be funny sometimes, but I'm afraid I will leave this list if I can't learn > anything anymore about mineralogy here. > > Please don't be offended, and also don't think that I don't have any sense of humor... this list is just not what I expect from it > anymore. > Best regards, > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15 > B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > Belgium > > Tel. + 32 3 7706007 > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) > >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! > >>> Exchange list > > MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! > > > *-----Original Message----- > *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Afox > *Sent: vrijdag 23 juli 2004 21:14 > *To: Rockhounds > *Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: > * > * > *--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed > * text/html > * application/octet-stream > *--- StripMime Errors --- > *A message with no text/plain section was received. > *The entire body of the message was removed. Please > *resend the email using plaintext formatting > *--- > *_______________________________________________ > *Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > *WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > *Subscription Services: > *http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > * > * > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Fri Jul 23 20:27:45 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Fri Jul 23 20:23:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds list ? References: <000701c470e1$e7670f20$f69388d9@maxdata> <6.1.2.0.0.20040723155301.02ed5720@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <04bd01c4712e$30b1a7c0$dea4490c@pete> Kitty, and all, ...Maybe, all the serious mineral people are just out digging minerals all summer! (But no, all the "regulars" are still online in this group... just talking about... mostly trivia? Your phrase caught me about "It's summer, in many places the weather is awful". Of course, here in beautiful Colorado, garden place of the western world, summer is mostly beautiful, and the best time to hunt for minerals (unless, perhaps, you go to those hot dry places on the west slope or eastern plains. But in the mountains, of course, it's ideal; and it's always cooler in the Pikes Peak Batholith country than it is in the Front Range cities, so it's a good time to go prospecting! [And then there's the Michigan U.P. and such, where summer is the only time everything isn't covered by ice and snow!] Pete From kahako at aloha.net Fri Jul 23 21:38:38 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Jul 23 21:12:19 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040723171719.02eb3eb0@mail.aloha.net> OK, in the spirit of getting us back on topic, can anyone tell me what causes iridescence in minerals? A 10-year-old neighbor girl asked me why one of my opal specimens looks like the back of a beetle she had just picked up in the yard. She sits in wonder looking at pieces of labradorite, opal, chalcopyrite, bornite, bismuth, "turgite," calcite, quartz, and even several chunks of lava from our own resident volcano---turning them in the light, fascinated. "They have rainbows!" she says, or "It looks like a butterfly's wings!" (Of course she is already fascinated with our fluorescent collection, and did an excellent report on the subject for school last year, with a special demonstration by "Aunty Kitty.") We went to a dictionary and the computer and read about pleochroism, asterism, chatoyancy, labradorescence, opalescence, (there wasn't a whole lot on iridescence), and we agree that rainbow reflections in a crystal are different from rainbow colors on "turgite," but both she and I came away from the computer overwhelmed. We asked "Uncle Bill," my resident physicist husband and heard about interference phenomenon, and diffraction gratings, but even he could not tell us why some pieces of lava have iridescent surfaces. Anybody want to discourse on rainbow colors in and on minerals? Or point us toward some source we missed? Aloha, Kitty From gps444 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 23 21:22:03 2004 From: gps444 at yahoo.com (greg swanson) Date: Fri Jul 23 21:22:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Virii (sigh) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040724042203.77275.qmail@web13603.mail.yahoo.com> I think you do a tremendous job, using talents and know-how that most of us don't have. Realizing that our appreciation doesn't make up for the amount of time this must take, whatever you need to do to make this job more manageable, I support. Greg --- Aaron Fox wrote: > I've had to add myself to the 'Moderated' list in > Mailman, as the spam > that comes in forged as me goes straight to the > list. Sorry for the > inconvenience, but do know that I am not the source > of the spam (Unix > email client and all that...:-) > > I am going to examine going to full moderation with > rockhounds this > weekend. More details on Monday. > > Aaron > Rockhounds Admin > > -- > afox at drizzle dot com || > http://www.drizzle.com/~afox > Highway Patrolman: "Sir, do you know how fast you > were going?" > Heisenberg: "No, but I know EXACTLY where > I was!" > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jul 23 22:02:21 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jul 23 21:55:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds list ? References: <000701c470e1$e7670f20$f69388d9@maxdata> <6.1.2.0.0.20040723155301.02ed5720@mail.aloha.net> <04bd01c4712e$30b1a7c0$dea4490c@pete> Message-ID: <4101EBCA.3457@Tomaszewski.net> Peter J. Modreski wrote: > Range cities, so it's a good time to go prospecting! [And then there's the > Michigan U.P. and such, where summer is the only time everything isn't > covered by ice and snow!] We had frost in Michigan's U.P. last night. Coldest spot in the U.S. again. When Summer in the U.P. falls on a weekend everyone has a picnic. Kreigh From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jul 23 22:27:10 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jul 23 22:20:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence References: <6.1.2.0.0.20040723171719.02eb3eb0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <4101F19A.4FA4@Tomaszewski.net> Kitty, There are two major causes of iridescence I am aware of. The first comes from a diffraction effect such as in fire opal, where ordered planes of silica spheres make effective diffraction gratings. The second, and more common, comes from a thin layer effect, like in an oil slick or a soap bubble, where the thickness of a surface coating or layer causes selective reflection of some wavelengths of light. Your iridescent lava is usually in this category. A third, minor, cause is from refraction. This is most common in cut stones (think of the colors you see in a cut diamond), but can occur from natural crystals due to their prism like shapes. Kreigh Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > OK, in the spirit of getting us back on topic, can anyone tell me what > causes iridescence in minerals? A 10-year-old neighbor girl asked me why > one of my opal specimens looks like the back of a beetle she had just > picked up in the yard. She sits in wonder looking at pieces of > labradorite, opal, chalcopyrite, bornite, bismuth, "turgite," calcite, > quartz, and even several chunks of lava from our own resident > volcano---turning them in the light, fascinated. "They have rainbows!" she > says, or "It looks like a butterfly's wings!" (Of course she is already > fascinated with our fluorescent collection, and did an excellent report on > the subject for school last year, with a special demonstration by "Aunty > Kitty.") We went to a dictionary and the computer and read about > pleochroism, asterism, chatoyancy, labradorescence, opalescence, (there > wasn't a whole lot on iridescence), and we agree that rainbow reflections > in a crystal are different from rainbow colors on "turgite," but both she > and I came away from the computer overwhelmed. We asked "Uncle Bill," my > resident physicist husband and heard about interference phenomenon, and > diffraction gratings, but even he could not tell us why some pieces of lava > have iridescent surfaces. > > Anybody want to discourse on rainbow colors in and on minerals? Or point > us toward some source we missed? > > Aloha, Kitty > From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sat Jul 24 01:19:33 2004 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sat Jul 24 01:19:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) In-Reply-To: <4101F19A.4FA4@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Thanks for reminding me Kitty! For some time I have a question about iridiscent lava. Apart from minerals I collect rock samples from volcanoes. This is even less usefull than collecting minerals. Most friends going on a holliday bring me back rocks because I collect them. You all know they mostly bring back junk, so instructing them to go for volcanic stuff and note the exact locality is a nice way to 'exploit' your friends :-)) On many lava samples I encounter iridiscence much like my siderazot sample from Vesuvius. I always assumed the iridiscence on lava is caused by thin layers of oxides. I have lava samples from Kilauea and Tolbachik, which look very similar to siderazot from Vesuvius. Has anyone an idea if siderazot is much more common than I think, or are much more alledged siderazot samples just blue iridiscent lava? cheers, Maurice -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Kreigh Tomaszewski Sent: 24 July 2004 07:27 To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] iridescence Kitty, There are two major causes of iridescence I am aware of. The first comes from a diffraction effect such as in fire opal, where ordered planes of silica spheres make effective diffraction gratings. The second, and more common, comes from a thin layer effect, like in an oil slick or a soap bubble, where the thickness of a surface coating or layer causes selective reflection of some wavelengths of light. Your iridescent lava is usually in this category. A third, minor, cause is from refraction. This is most common in cut stones (think of the colors you see in a cut diamond), but can occur from natural crystals due to their prism like shapes. Kreigh Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > OK, in the spirit of getting us back on topic, can anyone tell me what > causes iridescence in minerals? A 10-year-old neighbor girl asked me why > one of my opal specimens looks like the back of a beetle she had just > picked up in the yard. She sits in wonder looking at pieces of > labradorite, opal, chalcopyrite, bornite, bismuth, "turgite," calcite, > quartz, and even several chunks of lava from our own resident > volcano---turning them in the light, fascinated. "They have rainbows!" she > says, or "It looks like a butterfly's wings!" (Of course she is already > fascinated with our fluorescent collection, and did an excellent report on > the subject for school last year, with a special demonstration by "Aunty > Kitty.") We went to a dictionary and the computer and read about > pleochroism, asterism, chatoyancy, labradorescence, opalescence, (there > wasn't a whole lot on iridescence), and we agree that rainbow reflections > in a crystal are different from rainbow colors on "turgite," but both she > and I came away from the computer overwhelmed. We asked "Uncle Bill," my > resident physicist husband and heard about interference phenomenon, and > diffraction gratings, but even he could not tell us why some pieces of lava > have iridescent surfaces. > > Anybody want to discourse on rainbow colors in and on minerals? Or point > us toward some source we missed? > > Aloha, Kitty > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pchil at botsnet.bw Sat Jul 17 02:44:09 2004 From: pchil at botsnet.bw (P.C. Hulley) Date: Sat Jul 24 02:53:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Contest for a Book References: <072320041524.21549.41012D90000919880000542D216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <004701c46be4$39c761a0$cc48a7a8@hulley> I Like the favourite mineral idea! Hildagarde Hulley ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New Contest for a Book > How about, > > "My favorite mineral, and why, in (25?) words or less?" > > Pete > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sat Jul 24 03:37:04 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sat Jul 24 03:37:33 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c4716a$2fc77790$3261c950@maxdata> Hi all, Just to make sure that nobody understood me wrongly : I have absolutely nothing against socializing on this list, and as you all know Axel, including his sense of humor, is a very close friend. So I appreciate friendship, humor and socializing, but IMO during some periods the essential target of the list is lost out of sight. So indeed, any good crystals should be on a piece of matrix, but a big piece of matrix with only traces of the mineral we kept it for is not always very valuable. Any good equilibrium is fine. And indeed, please don't go the opposite way, turning this list into a dull, dry, unenjoyable scientific forum. I will just use my delete button when (to my taste) necessary. On the other hand, it's not the TV stations that have to show what I like, it's the watcher who has to zap... Kreigh, you described irridescence in such a brilliant and compact way that I can't add anything... Maurice, concerning lavas I am pretty confident that siderazot is a quite rare mineral. I just looked around on the web, and have seen that indeed many collectors think that any irridiscent layer on lava is actually siderazot, which is certainly not the case. If it were so, than on the lava flows of the Pu'u O'o on Hawaii there would be square kilometers of "siderazot". It can only be identifed with certainty by analising it, which is an extremely difficult task. Siderazot aggregates are rarely big enough for X-ray diffraction, so mostly that's out of the question. And in an EDX (energy-dispersive X-ray analyser) such as is used on a SEM (scanning electron microscope) or TEM (transmission electron microscope) in most cases N (nitrogen) cannot be detected, and even with windowless detectors the signal is poor in such a case. It can be detected with a WDX (wavelength dispersive X-ray analyser) on a microprobe, but those things are not that widespread. Electron diffraction in a TEM is another option, but sample preparation is a serious drawback, and can be done only in dedicated laboratories. Conclusion : siderazot is very rare, and certainly not all that irridesces on lava is siderazot. The blue irridescence on lava is probably caused by selective reflection in thin surface layers, as Kreigh pointed out. The identification of siderazot is VEEEERY difficult. Regards, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15 B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium Tel. + 32 3 7706007 E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of *Maurice de Graaf *Sent: zaterdag 24 juli 2004 10:20 *To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors *Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) * * *Thanks for reminding me Kitty! * *For some time I have a question about iridiscent lava. Apart *from minerals I collect rock samples from volcanoes. This is *even less usefull than collecting minerals. Most friends going *on a holliday bring me back rocks because I collect them. You *all know they mostly bring back junk, so instructing them to *go for volcanic stuff and note the exact locality is a nice *way to 'exploit' your friends :-)) * *On many lava samples I encounter iridiscence much like my *siderazot sample from Vesuvius. I always assumed the *iridiscence on lava is caused by thin layers of oxides. I have *lava samples from Kilauea and Tolbachik, which look very *similar to siderazot from Vesuvius. Has anyone an idea if *siderazot is much more common than I think, or are much more *alledged siderazot samples just blue iridiscent lava? * *cheers, *Maurice * *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of *Kreigh Tomaszewski *Sent: 24 July 2004 07:27 *To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors *Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] iridescence * * *Kitty, * *There are two major causes of iridescence I am aware of. * *The first comes from a diffraction effect such as in fire *opal, where ordered planes of silica spheres make effective *diffraction gratings. * *The second, and more common, comes from a thin layer effect, *like in an oil slick or a soap bubble, where the thickness of *a surface coating or layer causes selective reflection of some *wavelengths of light. Your iridescent lava is usually in this category. * *A third, minor, cause is from refraction. This is most common *in cut stones (think of the colors you see in a cut diamond), *but can occur from natural crystals due to their prism like shapes. * *Kreigh * * * * * *Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: *> *> OK, in the spirit of getting us back on topic, can anyone *tell me what *> causes iridescence in minerals? A 10-year-old neighbor girl *asked me *> why one of my opal specimens looks like the back of a beetle she had *> just picked up in the yard. She sits in wonder looking at pieces of *> labradorite, opal, chalcopyrite, bornite, bismuth, *"turgite," calcite, *> quartz, and even several chunks of lava from our own resident *> volcano---turning them in the light, fascinated. "They have *> rainbows!" *she *> says, or "It looks like a butterfly's wings!" (Of course she is *> already fascinated with our fluorescent collection, and did an *> excellent report on the subject for school last year, with a special *> demonstration by "Aunty *> Kitty.") We went to a dictionary and the computer and read about *> pleochroism, asterism, chatoyancy, labradorescence, *opalescence, (there *> wasn't a whole lot on iridescence), and we agree that *rainbow reflections *> in a crystal are different from rainbow colors on "turgite," *but both she *> and I came away from the computer overwhelmed. We asked *"Uncle Bill," my *> resident physicist husband and heard about interference *phenomenon, and *> diffraction gratings, but even he could not tell us why some *pieces of *lava *> have iridescent surfaces. *> *> Anybody want to discourse on rainbow colors in and on minerals? Or *> point us toward some source we missed? *> *> Aloha, Kitty *> * *_______________________________________________ *Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List *WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds *Subscription Services: *http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds * * *_______________________________________________ *Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List *WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds *Subscription Services: *http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds * * From morningstar at att.net Sat Jul 24 05:03:08 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Sat Jul 24 05:03:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence Message-ID: <072420041203.19772.41024FFB0000BBD700004D3C21602807419D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> And even better, these phenomena are all related by the fact that they occur due to the energies of different wavelengths of light. Remember that "white light" consists of wavelengths from approximately 390 nanometers to 720 nanometers, with a nanometer being a billionth of a meter. For precision work we use the Angstrom unit, which is a tenth of a nanometer but is not officially recognized as a standard unit in the metric system. Each of these corresponds to a different wavelength and energy. Bragg's Law tells us how diffraction of x-rays occur at the atomic level. I am farily certain that this same law applies to the much larger wavelengths, and much greater layer spacings necessary, of the white-light range. http://www.eserc.stonybrook.edu/ProjectJava/Bragg/ http://www.osmic.com/education_braggs.asp Snell's Law describes refraction: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/geoopt/refr.html Remember, the effect of seeing different colors derives from the fact that different wavelengths of light are diffracted or refracted based upon their wavelength. For precision work, such as refractive index determination to 0.0001 or less, we use monochromatic light, in order to avoid these "rainbow" effects if you will. In the case of hematite var. turgite, the rainbow effect, as Kreigh pointed out, is due to micro-thin layers of material deposited on the surface at a thickness that happens to mathematically satisfy the equations that give us diffraction of visible light. Unfortunately I must sign off for a while; I wanted to bring these ideas forward for discussion and further investigation by the motivated reader. There are plenty of great web resources if you search on the terms "diffraction," "dispersion," and "thin film diffraction," among others. Some are painfully technical, yet some have good graphics and even interactive tutorials. Here is one more: http://www.spectrumminerals.com/wonder_of_color.cfm Enjoy your exploration, it is a wonderful subject! Don From morningstar at att.net Sat Jul 24 05:17:42 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Sat Jul 24 05:17:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) Message-ID: <072420041217.25870.41025366000288910000650E21602807419D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> > Siderazot aggregates are rarely big enough for X-ray > diffraction, so mostly that's out of the question. And in an EDX > (energy-dispersive X-ray analyser) such as is used on a SEM > (scanning electron microscope) or TEM (transmission electron microscope) in most > cases N (nitrogen) cannot be detected, and even > with windowless detectors the signal is poor in such a case. Don't forget, Rick, that even in a better SEM/EDS instrument that detects nitrogen, the layer is probably so thin that the beam will drive right through it and excite the phase below, which in this case would be the lava. If you have access to a good Monte Carlo simulator you can check just what that interaction volume would look like for different thicknesses of sideroazot (I had to look that one up, I couldn't believe it was a mineral name). Don From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sat Jul 24 07:09:40 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sat Jul 24 07:05:41 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) References: Message-ID: <003001c47187$de944880$56a3490c@pete> Hi Maurice & List, Your comment introduced me to another mineral I'd never heard of, siderazot; which sounded interesting, because I gathered from the name that it was a compound of iron and nitrogen; as it is, Fe5N2. So, iron nitride is interesting and unusual; and I see there seems to be very little data available about it. Mindat lists the Mount Etna type locality, and illustrates a specimen from Vesuvius; and the Encyclopedia of Minerals said "an inadequately described mineral". Dana lists the two localities and doesn't say much else. It seems to have been reported on lava from an 1874 eruption of Mount Etna, and an 1841 eruption of Vesuvius. (I see that one website listing it for sale says "1941 Vesuvius eruption", I suspect that's an error for 1841. So, I wonder, if it's something formed by high-temperature interaction between lava and air; or perhaps, with some kind of organic material that had been "cooked" by the lava?* * Also, I wonder if this occurrence is real and valid or not? I'm sure it must be a quite thin coating, and I see it was discovered in 1876; their techniques then for characterizing minerals, especially micro amounts of material, were of course very rudimentary compared to what we have now. I guess I'd be a little suspicious as to the validity of this mineral, unless it's been verified in more detail by more recent mineralogical work. When I'm back in my office (where most of my newer mineralogic books are too), I'll have to look it up on GEOREF and see if anything recent has been published on it. So Maurice, my guess is that this is a pretty uncommon mineral (if in fact it is really what it is claimed to be), and it's not necessarily what accounts for the iridescent coatings on other lavas. But, who knows??? [It would be somewhat difficult to verify or detect the presence of this mineral, Fe5N2, because for one thing, the most common technique in use (SEM-EDX) is minimally sensitive to detecting a light element such as N, some most analyses of surface coatings on lava, would simply show the presence of "Fe", even if Fe5N2 were really present.] Interesting! Pete Modreski **Maybe from mountain goats urinating on hot lava??? [I don't know if they have mountain goats in Italy.] Or perhaps bird doo-doo?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice de Graaf" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 2:19 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) > Thanks for reminding me Kitty! > > For some time I have a question about iridiscent lava. Apart from minerals I > collect rock samples from volcanoes. This is even less usefull than > collecting minerals. Most friends going on a holliday bring me back rocks > because I collect them. You all know they mostly bring back junk, so > instructing them to go for volcanic stuff and note the exact locality is a > nice way to 'exploit' your friends :-)) > > On many lava samples I encounter iridiscence much like my siderazot sample > from Vesuvius. I always assumed the iridiscence on lava is caused by thin > layers of oxides. I have lava samples from Kilauea and Tolbachik, which look > very similar to siderazot from Vesuvius. Has anyone an idea if siderazot is > much more common than I think, or are much more alledged siderazot samples > just blue iridiscent lava? > > cheers, > Maurice From jbryankramer at msn.com Sat Jul 24 07:37:00 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Jul 24 07:37:05 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds list ? In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20040723155301.02ed5720@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: The 'Off-Topic' material we see on this list is mild mannered and interesting... generally. We don't have flame wars over really off topic material like politics. IMHO any list that tries to prevent social posts and make every post toe the topic line is doomed to die. After all if we were all sitting around the campfire after a day of collecting, our conversation would range over many subjects. Not all of them mineralogical either. BTW Science Daily has started a news page for geology: http://www.sciencedaily.com/topix/index.php?feed=tech&topic=Geology and Palentology: http://www.sciencedaily.com/topix/index.php?feed=tech&topic=Paleontology It looks like it might be worth checking a couple of times a week. They have pages for quite a number of topics. Bryan Lex et Libertas -- Semper Vigilo, Paratus, et Fidelis! > > At 08:21 AM 7/23/2004, Rik Dillen wrote: > >... It's ages ago that I learnt something about mineralogy. Most of the > >postings of the last few weeks are, IMHO, off topic, and belong > more on a > >literature or eloquence list. May be funny sometimes, but I'm afraid I > >will leave this list if I can't learn > >anything anymore about mineralogy here.... > > Just 3 things here: > > 1. It's summer, in many places the weather is awful, and some people just > tend to get silly for a while. It's not a serious and permanent > deficiency > in the list. > > 2. The thing I like about this list is that it has variety. > It's nice to > have Lanny lighten up the topics occasionally, to have Axel make > us laugh, > Kreigh provide all the facts, a story from John Cornish, side trips into > weather and astronomy, and then people like you to get us back on > track. I > agree with Dave Guin: sometimes a bit of matrix is a good thing. > > 3. The way to get us back on track is to ask a good question about > minerals or collecting. (Actually I think Kreigh already said something > like that.) > > Aloha, Kitty > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sat Jul 24 08:18:09 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sat Jul 24 08:14:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds list ? References: Message-ID: <004401c47191$7089eb60$56a3490c@pete> Hi, Bryan, That "Science Daily" is a good news site--lots of interesting geology stories are posted there! Thanks for mentioning it; I'd never heard of Science Daily before. There's so much out there... Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 8:37 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds list ? > BTW Science Daily has started a news page for geology: > > http://www.sciencedaily.com/topix/index.php?feed=tech&topic=Geology > > and Palentology: > > http://www.sciencedaily.com/topix/index.php?feed=tech&topic=Paleontology > > It looks like it might be worth checking a couple of times a week. They have > pages for quite a number of topics. > > Bryan > From jbryankramer at msn.com Sat Jul 24 08:25:26 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Jul 24 08:25:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds list ? In-Reply-To: <004401c47191$7089eb60$56a3490c@pete> Message-ID: It is a good site, the main page is updated 3 times a day I think. I've been using it for years. I think it started out as someone's hobby but it has really expanded in the last couple of years. newscientist.com is the other major site that I keep an eye on. Bryan Lex et Libertas -- Semper Vigilo, Paratus, et Fidelis! > > Hi, Bryan, > > That "Science Daily" is a good news site--lots of interesting geology > stories are posted there! Thanks for mentioning it; I'd never heard of > Science Daily before. There's so much out there... > > Pete > > > BTW Science Daily has started a news page for geology: > > > > http://www.sciencedaily.com/topix/index.php?feed=tech&topic=Geology > > > > and Palentology: > > > > http://www.sciencedaily.com/topix/index.php?feed=tech&topic=Paleontology > > > > It looks like it might be worth checking a couple of times a week. They > have > > pages for quite a number of topics. > > > > Bryan > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sat Jul 24 08:42:58 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sat Jul 24 08:38:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Science Daily References: Message-ID: <006701c47194$e5adfd20$56a3490c@pete> Bryan, I meant to add, though, I'm having trouble accessing the material on that site. When I click on the links to specific geology news stories--nothing happens, it never goes to the linked story. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 9:25 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds list ? > It is a good site, the main page is updated 3 times a day I think. I've been > using it for years. I think it started out as someone's hobby but it has > really expanded in the last couple of years. newscientist.com is the other > major site that I keep an eye on. > > Bryan > > Lex et Libertas -- Semper Vigilo, Paratus, et Fidelis! From jbryankramer at msn.com Sat Jul 24 08:45:37 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Jul 24 08:45:42 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Science Daily In-Reply-To: <006701c47194$e5adfd20$56a3490c@pete> Message-ID: They pop up a new window with the story, your popup stopper may be killing it. Try over-riding it, usually by holding down the control key when you click on the link. Google taskbar popup stopper seems to be more intelligent than the one I used to use. It generally doesn't block links that the user clicks on but it is good at blocking other popups. Bryan Lex et Libertas -- Semper Vigilo, Paratus, et Fidelis! > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Peter J. > Modreski > Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 10:43 > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Science Daily > > > Bryan, I meant to add, though, I'm having trouble accessing the > material on > that site. When I click on the links to specific geology news > stories--nothing happens, it never goes to the linked story. > > Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "J Bryan Kramer" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 9:25 AM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds list ? > > > > It is a good site, the main page is updated 3 times a day I think. I've > been > > using it for years. I think it started out as someone's hobby but it has > > really expanded in the last couple of years. newscientist.com > is the other > > major site that I keep an eye on. > > > > Bryan > > > > Lex et Libertas -- Semper Vigilo, Paratus, et Fidelis! > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sat Jul 24 08:58:04 2004 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sat Jul 24 08:58:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) In-Reply-To: <003001c47187$de944880$56a3490c@pete> Message-ID: Hi Pete and list, As far as I know siderazot is a valid species. The Mineral Reference Manual from Nickel and Nichols regard it as a grandfather mineral. It is just bad luck that the analyses of it is so tricky. As far as it's formation, I'm not at all suprised by the chemical oddity. Volcanic vents bear really weird chemical environments. We are used to more or less normal test 'tube chemistry'. But because of the high temperatures in fumarolic gasses elements tend to behave quite differently. To give only one example. Silicon is transported as SiO gas. When reaching the surfce this gas will form Si and SiO2 (cristobalite). Silicon in the 2+ valency is quite rare. Apart from the weird valency of nitrogen in siderazot, the chemistry is not that weird. Iron and nitrogen are present in every volcanic vent. So unlike the rare copper oxy compounds in fumaroles of Vesuvius and Tolbachik, I would expect Siderazot at many more volcanoes than just Etna and Vesuvius. Finally Siderazot is pretty common on European mineral fares. I have three alledged samples, all from Vesuvius. With two of them I have serious questionmarks as if they are more likely iridiscent lava. The third sample (from another dealer) looks much different. It consists of a few blue metallic spots, resembling covellite on otherwise dull and non-iridiscent lava. Cheers and thanks for your remarks so far, Maurice -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Peter J. Modreski Sent: 24 July 2004 16:10 To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) Hi Maurice & List, Your comment introduced me to another mineral I'd never heard of, siderazot; which sounded interesting, because I gathered from the name that it was a compound of iron and nitrogen; as it is, Fe5N2. So, iron nitride is interesting and unusual; and I see there seems to be very little data available about it. Mindat lists the Mount Etna type locality, and illustrates a specimen from Vesuvius; and the Encyclopedia of Minerals said "an inadequately described mineral". Dana lists the two localities and doesn't say much else. It seems to have been reported on lava from an 1874 eruption of Mount Etna, and an 1841 eruption of Vesuvius. (I see that one website listing it for sale says "1941 Vesuvius eruption", I suspect that's an error for 1841. So, I wonder, if it's something formed by high-temperature interaction between lava and air; or perhaps, with some kind of organic material that had been "cooked" by the lava?* * Also, I wonder if this occurrence is real and valid or not? I'm sure it must be a quite thin coating, and I see it was discovered in 1876; their techniques then for characterizing minerals, especially micro amounts of material, were of course very rudimentary compared to what we have now. I guess I'd be a little suspicious as to the validity of this mineral, unless it's been verified in more detail by more recent mineralogical work. When I'm back in my office (where most of my newer mineralogic books are too), I'll have to look it up on GEOREF and see if anything recent has been published on it. So Maurice, my guess is that this is a pretty uncommon mineral (if in fact it is really what it is claimed to be), and it's not necessarily what accounts for the iridescent coatings on other lavas. But, who knows??? [It would be somewhat difficult to verify or detect the presence of this mineral, Fe5N2, because for one thing, the most common technique in use (SEM-EDX) is minimally sensitive to detecting a light element such as N, some most analyses of surface coatings on lava, would simply show the presence of "Fe", even if Fe5N2 were really present.] Interesting! Pete Modreski **Maybe from mountain goats urinating on hot lava??? [I don't know if they have mountain goats in Italy.] Or perhaps bird doo-doo?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice de Graaf" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 2:19 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) > Thanks for reminding me Kitty! > > For some time I have a question about iridiscent lava. Apart from minerals I > collect rock samples from volcanoes. This is even less usefull than > collecting minerals. Most friends going on a holliday bring me back rocks > because I collect them. You all know they mostly bring back junk, so > instructing them to go for volcanic stuff and note the exact locality is a > nice way to 'exploit' your friends :-)) > > On many lava samples I encounter iridiscence much like my siderazot sample > from Vesuvius. I always assumed the iridiscence on lava is caused by thin > layers of oxides. I have lava samples from Kilauea and Tolbachik, which look > very similar to siderazot from Vesuvius. Has anyone an idea if siderazot is > much more common than I think, or are much more alledged siderazot samples > just blue iridiscent lava? > > cheers, > Maurice _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Jul 24 09:07:50 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Jul 24 09:08:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] hotsonite References: <072320041640.25754.41013F87000C29770000649A216037622307059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <004e01c47198$63a06440$6402a8c0@axel> >Well, your first line mystified me, I figured it had to be "hotsonite", but (stubbornly refusing, of course, to look it up in my Glossary) I've sure never >heard of that mineral. Where in the heck did you ever hear of "hotsonite"? It's sure not in my mineral vocabulary, so congratulations to you, for >knowing such a thing exists! Take a peek at http://www.mindat.org/min-1933.html The mineral is IMA approved ;-))) The mindat site allows you to type any word (hot, creek, elephant....whatever) and see if a mineral exists with that word in it. From then on it's easy ;-))) Looks like I'm not THAT smart after all (LOL) >[I forget now, Axel, are you a micromounter? Micromounters know about all sort of weird stuff, that nobody else ever knows [or cares, might I >dare to say?] about? No, but I'm sometimes photographing small stuff for colleagues and friends. Currently I'm working on a series of slides of really rare stuff like brunogeierite, vesignieite and stuff like that. Cute but cumbersome (for the photographer) microstuff... >Ditto for fluorescent freaks. And species collectors... I guess they are the ultimate. [Hey, now that I've insulted half the people on the list, you all >know that I'm writing very much tongue in cheek here, right?!] We fluofreaks are the worst collectors imaginable but we only respond to insults after dark ;-)))) Cheers Axel From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sat Jul 24 10:55:40 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sat Jul 24 10:56:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence In-Reply-To: <072420041203.19772.41024FFB0000BBD700004D3C21602807419D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: <000801c471a7$726fc060$3261c950@maxdata> *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of *morningstar@att.net *Sent: zaterdag 24 juli 2004 14:03 *To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors *Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] iridescence *http://www.eserc.stonybrook.edu/ProjectJava/Bragg/ >>>>> This one is just spectacular ! Everything you always wanted to know about Bragg but never dared to ask is there ! And it is very didactically presented. Thanks for sharring, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15 B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium Tel. + 32 3 7706007 E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sat Jul 24 10:55:40 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sat Jul 24 10:56:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) In-Reply-To: <072420041217.25870.41025366000288910000650E21602807419D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: <000b01c471a7$75a45e80$3261c950@maxdata> *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of *morningstar@att.net *Sent: zaterdag 24 juli 2004 14:18 *To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors *Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) * *Don't forget, Rick, that even in a better SEM/EDS instrument that detects nitrogen, the layer is probably so thin that the beam will drive right through it and excite the phase below, which in this case would be the lava. If you have access to a good Monte Carlo simulator you can check just what that interaction volume would look like for different thicknesses of sideroazot (I had to look that one up, I couldn't believe it was a mineral name). >>>>> Right you are ! It would only be detectable with a very low acceleration voltage, and even if siderazot contains percents of N it would be very hard to be detected due to the low portion of the excitation volume from which those weak X-rays could escape. There are other techniques, such as micro-XPS (or ESCA), neutron activation analysis etc., but that's certainly totally beyond the scope of this list. For the same reason(s) also the element boron is very hard to detect, and is mostly overseen if no very sophisticated techniques are involved in the identification process. Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15 B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium Tel. + 32 3 7706007 E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! From kahako at aloha.net Sat Jul 24 11:22:40 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Jul 24 10:56:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence on lava In-Reply-To: References: <003001c47187$de944880$56a3490c@pete> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040724080105.02ea50c0@mail.aloha.net> Some of you have mentioned blue iridescence on lava. It is true that blue is the most common color that I have seen here in Hawaii, but I have sitting before me specimens with yellow and gold iridescence, as well as some with several colors---perhaps not a true rainbow, but definitely more than just blue. I also have some pieces where the colors are not iridescent, but flat, almost pastel chalky in appearance but not dusty. These show orange, pink, green, gray, blue and lavender. Finally, I have some where there are colorful spots that are not iridescent, but are shiny, looking much like glazed pottery, in orange, yellow, brown and red. I think these may actually be natural glazes from the soil and burned organic material that the lava flows over. As a potter I have experimented with creating glazes from mixtures of earth, ash, and the natural clay that is abundant in the ground here, and have achieved colors similar to those I've seen on cooled lava. Aloha, Kitty From jbryankramer at msn.com Sat Jul 24 11:13:06 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Jul 24 11:13:10 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) In-Reply-To: <000b01c471a7$75a45e80$3261c950@maxdata> Message-ID: The question still arises..how did chemists back in the 1800's identify this compound. Wet Chemistry at the time had to struggle to get parts-per-hundred sensitivity on large (by modern standards) samples. In my mind nitrogen would be especially hard to detect using classical methods. Bryan Lex et Libertas -- Semper Vigilo, Paratus, et Fidelis! > *-----Original Message----- > *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > *morningstar@att.net > *Sent: zaterdag 24 juli 2004 14:18 > *To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > *Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) > * > *Don't forget, Rick, that even in a better SEM/EDS instrument > that detects nitrogen, the layer is probably so thin that the beam > will drive right through it and excite the phase below, which in > this case would be the lava. If you have access to a good Monte > Carlo simulator you can check just what that interaction volume > would look like for different thicknesses of sideroazot (I had to > look that one up, I couldn't believe it was a mineral name). > > >>>>> Right you are ! It would only be detectable with a very low > acceleration voltage, and even if siderazot contains percents of N > it would be very hard to be detected due to the low portion of > the excitation volume from which those weak X-rays could escape. > There are other techniques, such as micro-XPS (or ESCA), neutron > activation analysis etc., but that's certainly totally beyond the > scope of this list. > > For the same reason(s) also the element boron is very hard to > detect, and is mostly overseen if no very sophisticated techniques are > involved in the identification process. > > Greetings, > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15 > B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > Belgium > > Tel. + 32 3 7706007 > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) > >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! > >>> Exchange list > > MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From morningstar at att.net Sat Jul 24 11:40:06 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Sat Jul 24 11:40:10 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) Message-ID: <072420041840.18345.4102AD060002F995000047A921602806519D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> That is a separate question that I pondered later. Now, while studying chemistry I am amazed at who discovered what so many hundred years ago; those folks like Priestley and Lavoisier were more capable than many might imagine. But I think you know that already (Bryan), because if I'm not mistaken you've said you are a chemist. Still, fast forward to the modern day, and I can't imagine using any of the techniques I know how to do, except *possibly* WDS if you are lucky enough to isolate a very flat surface--and what are the odds of that happening, given the known matrix? Now, we could use AES, AAS, or ICPMS to do bulk chemistry and at least detect Fe and N, but that does not imply stoichiometry or structure. Of course there was no IMA back then. [time lapse] I thought I just read in American Mineralogist or Canadian Mineralogist, or similar juried publication, that the CNMMN had decided on limits for new minerals in so far as the mineral needs to be detectable as a species using a minimum of available techniques (i.e., EDS + powder XRD), or words close to that. Now, I just spent the last few minutes runmmaging through my recent issues of CanMin and AmMin and can't find the darned thing. If anyone out there recognizes what I am talking about, please be so kind as to refer me to an issue and page number. I think I remember Don Peacor's name being associated with this statement, but again, don't quote me on that. Don > The question still arises..how did chemists back in the 1800's identify this > compound. Wet Chemistry at the time had to struggle to get parts-per-hundred > sensitivity on large (by modern standards) samples. In my mind nitrogen > would be especially hard to detect using classical methods. From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sat Jul 24 11:57:23 2004 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sat Jul 24 11:57:25 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Bryan, Beats me :-) But I think that about many more facets of science. I like to re-live the 19th century mineralogist by trying to see if some old fashioned blowpipe- and microanalyses work on throw-away mineral samples. A lot of them, much to my own surprise, do work perfectly on only a few grains of mineral.My books failed to come up with a nitride-specific reaction, but I'm sure there are a few. Making it work quantitatively is another question.... Meanwhile while searching my bookshelve on nitrides, I came past a possible clue on Siderazot formation. It appears nitrogen is not an inert gass at all above 200?C. In fact over that temperature it readily combines with metals to form nitrides. Burning magnesium metal in air would yield small amounts of magnesium nitride. So the formation of iron nitride in hot lava is plausible. I think the formation of siderazot is mainly ruled by what is NOT there, like chlorine (to form Molysite), oxygen to form hematite or water. Most nitrides are instable in water and fall apart in oxides and ammonia. Cheers, Maurice PS sorry Rik if this thread is suddenly boring and scientific in stead of social chit-chat :-)))) -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer Sent: 24 July 2004 20:13 To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) The question still arises..how did chemists back in the 1800's identify this compound. Wet Chemistry at the time had to struggle to get parts-per-hundred sensitivity on large (by modern standards) samples. In my mind nitrogen would be especially hard to detect using classical methods. Bryan Lex et Libertas -- Semper Vigilo, Paratus, et Fidelis! > *-----Original Message----- > *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > *morningstar@att.net > *Sent: zaterdag 24 juli 2004 14:18 > *To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > *Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) > * > *Don't forget, Rick, that even in a better SEM/EDS instrument > that detects nitrogen, the layer is probably so thin that the beam > will drive right through it and excite the phase below, which in > this case would be the lava. If you have access to a good Monte > Carlo simulator you can check just what that interaction volume > would look like for different thicknesses of sideroazot (I had to > look that one up, I couldn't believe it was a mineral name). > > >>>>> Right you are ! It would only be detectable with a very low > acceleration voltage, and even if siderazot contains percents of N > it would be very hard to be detected due to the low portion of > the excitation volume from which those weak X-rays could escape. > There are other techniques, such as micro-XPS (or ESCA), neutron > activation analysis etc., but that's certainly totally beyond the > scope of this list. > > For the same reason(s) also the element boron is very hard to > detect, and is mostly overseen if no very sophisticated techniques are > involved in the identification process. > > Greetings, > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15 > B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > Belgium > > Tel. + 32 3 7706007 > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) > >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! > >>> Exchange list > > MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jbryankramer at msn.com Sat Jul 24 12:05:42 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Jul 24 12:05:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) In-Reply-To: <072420041840.18345.4102AD060002F995000047A921602806519D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: I am a Chemist and mainly do Ion Chromatography now. I do have great respect for the early chemists. I used to have a book from the early 1900's on Inorganic Chemistry and it was amazing what those people could do. And of course the fact is that they did identify this material. Bryan Lex et Libertas -- Semper Vigilo, Paratus, et Fidelis! > > That is a separate question that I pondered later. Now, while > studying chemistry I am amazed at who discovered what so many > hundred years ago; those folks like Priestley and Lavoisier were > more capable than many might imagine. But I think you know that > already (Bryan), because if I'm not mistaken you've said you are > a chemist. Still, fast forward to the modern day, and I can't > imagine using any of the techniques I know how to do, except > *possibly* WDS if you are lucky enough to isolate a very flat > surface--and what are the odds of that happening, given the known > matrix? Now, we could use AES, AAS, or ICPMS to do bulk > chemistry and at least detect Fe and N, but that does not imply > stoichiometry or structure. Of course there was no IMA back then. > > [time lapse] > > I thought I just read in American Mineralogist or Canadian > Mineralogist, or similar juried publication, that the CNMMN had > decided on limits for new minerals in so far as the mineral needs > to be detectable as a species using a minimum of available > techniques (i.e., EDS + powder XRD), or words close to that. > Now, I just spent the last few minutes runmmaging through my > recent issues of CanMin and AmMin and can't find the darned > thing. If anyone out there recognizes what I am talking about, > please be so kind as to refer me to an issue and page number. I > think I remember Don Peacor's name being associated with this > statement, but again, don't quote me on that. > > > Don > > > > > > > > The question still arises..how did chemists back in the 1800's > identify this > > compound. Wet Chemistry at the time had to struggle to get > parts-per-hundred > > sensitivity on large (by modern standards) samples. In my mind nitrogen > > would be especially hard to detect using classical methods. > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From jabac at hal-pc.org Sat Jul 24 12:23:07 2004 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Sat Jul 24 12:18:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) In-Reply-To: <003001c47187$de944880$56a3490c@pete> References: <003001c47187$de944880$56a3490c@pete> Message-ID: <1090696986.2732.68.camel@localhost> On Sat, 2004-07-24 at 09:09, Peter J. Modreski wrote: > Hi Maurice & List, > > Your comment introduced me to another mineral I'd never heard of, siderazot; > which sounded interesting, because I gathered from the name that it was a > compound of iron and nitrogen; as it is, Fe5N2. > > So, iron nitride is interesting and unusual; and I see there seems to be > very little data available about it. Mindat lists the Mount Etna type > locality, and illustrates a specimen from Vesuvius; and the Encyclopedia of > Minerals said "an inadequately described mineral". Dana lists the two > localities and doesn't say much else. It seems to have been reported on > lava from an 1874 eruption of Mount Etna, and an 1841 eruption of Vesuvius. > (I see that one website listing it for sale says "1941 Vesuvius eruption", I > suspect that's an error for 1841. So, I wonder, if it's something formed > by high-temperature interaction between lava and air; or perhaps, with some > kind of organic material that had been "cooked" by the lava?* * > > Also, I wonder if this occurrence is real and valid or not? I'm sure it > must be a quite thin coating, and I see it was discovered in 1876; their > techniques then for characterizing minerals, especially micro amounts of > material, were of course very rudimentary compared to what we have now. I > guess I'd be a little suspicious as to the validity of this mineral, unless > it's been verified in more detail by more recent mineralogical work. When > I'm back in my office (where most of my newer mineralogic books are too), > I'll have to look it up on GEOREF and see if anything recent has been > published on it. > > So Maurice, my guess is that this is a pretty uncommon mineral (if in fact > it is really what it is claimed to be), and it's not necessarily what > accounts for the iridescent coatings on other lavas. But, who knows??? [It > would be somewhat difficult to verify or detect the presence of this > mineral, Fe5N2, because for one thing, the most common technique in use > (SEM-EDX) is minimally sensitive to detecting a light element such as N, > some most analyses of surface coatings on lava, would simply show the > presence of "Fe", even if Fe5N2 were really present.] > > Interesting! > > Pete Modreski > > **Maybe from mountain goats urinating on hot lava??? [I don't know if they > have mountain goats in Italy.] Or perhaps bird doo-doo?? See http://www.espi-metals.com/msds's/ironnitride.pdf for the MSDS on Ferrous Nitride (Iron Nitride), which is Fe(2)N and mixture Fe(4)N. The material is used in solid state fabrication as a masking or doping agent, though not much seems to be known about it's structure. It seems to be hexagonal. It decomposes above 600 C. Surface nitriding of steel is also done to make a harder product. Fe(5)N(2) seems not to be mentioned in the chemical literature and is suspect. Would it theoretically be Ferric Nitride? john From kahako at aloha.net Sat Jul 24 12:45:42 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Jul 24 12:19:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) In-Reply-To: <072420041840.18345.4102AD060002F995000047A921602806519D0E9 B9C090207029D0103@att.net> References: <072420041840.18345.4102AD060002F995000047A921602806519D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040724094018.03c33a80@mail.aloha.net> See, Rik? All it took was a good question to get away from literature and back to science (although this chemistry is completely beyond me)! Aloha, Kitty At 08:40 AM 7/24/2004, you wrote: >That is a separate question that I pondered later. Now, while studying >chemistry I am amazed at who discovered what so many hundred years ago; >those folks like Priestley and Lavoisier were more capable than many might >imagine. But I think you know that already (Bryan), because if I'm not >mistaken you've said you are a chemist. Still, fast forward to the modern >day, and I can't imagine using any of the techniques I know how to do, >except *possibly* WDS if you are lucky enough to isolate a very flat >surface--and what are the odds of that happening, given the known >matrix? Now, we could use AES, AAS, or ICPMS to do bulk chemistry and at >least detect Fe and N, but that does not imply stoichiometry or >structure. Of course there was no IMA back then. > >[time lapse] > >I thought I just read in American Mineralogist or Canadian Mineralogist, >or similar juried publication, that the CNMMN had decided on limits for >new minerals in so far as the mineral needs to be detectable as a species >using a minimum of available techniques (i.e., EDS + powder XRD), or words >close to that. Now, I just spent the last few minutes runmmaging through >my recent issues of CanMin and AmMin and can't find the darned thing. If >anyone out there recognizes what I am talking about, please be so kind as >to refer me to an issue and page number. I think I remember Don Peacor's >name being associated with this statement, but again, don't quote me on that. > > >Don > > > > > > > > The question still arises..how did chemists back in the 1800's identify > this > > compound. Wet Chemistry at the time had to struggle to get > parts-per-hundred > > sensitivity on large (by modern standards) samples. In my mind nitrogen > > would be especially hard to detect using classical methods. >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jbryankramer at msn.com Sat Jul 24 12:23:31 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Jul 24 12:23:36 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes nitrogen is reactive at higher temperatures, the Born-Haber process is one famous example. Modern combustion processes try to limit combustion gas temperature to reduce the formation of NOx gasses from the reaction of nitrogen and oxygen. NOx is a pollution source. I should have made the connection in another way. Nitriding is a common metal treatment process that forms a hard corrosion resistant layer on steel. The reaction occurs with gaseous ammonia and iron at around 500 deg C. It can also occur with high nitrogen organic material in contact with the iron. This happens around the same temperatures 500-600 C. Some of you may be familiar with the nitriding paste used in welding/metal fabrication shops. The formation of this material may follow the same reaction paths. Lex et Libertas -- Semper Vigilo, Paratus, et Fidelis! > > Hi Bryan, > > Beats me :-) But I think that about many more facets of science. I like to > re-live the 19th century mineralogist by trying to see if some > old fashioned > blowpipe- and microanalyses work on throw-away mineral samples. A lot of > them, much to my own surprise, do work perfectly on only a few grains of > mineral.My books failed to come up with a nitride-specific > reaction, but I'm > sure there are a few. Making it work quantitatively is another > question.... > > Meanwhile while searching my bookshelve on nitrides, I came past > a possible > clue on Siderazot formation. It appears nitrogen is not an inert > gass at all > above 200?C. In fact over that temperature it readily combines with metals > to form nitrides. Burning magnesium metal in air would yield small amounts > of magnesium nitride. So the formation of iron nitride in hot lava is > plausible. I think the formation of siderazot is mainly ruled by > what is NOT > there, like chlorine (to form Molysite), oxygen to form hematite or water. > Most nitrides are instable in water and fall apart in oxides and ammonia. > > Cheers, > Maurice > > PS sorry Rik if this thread is suddenly boring and scientific in stead of > social chit-chat :-)))) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer > Sent: 24 July 2004 20:13 > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) > > > The question still arises..how did chemists back in the 1800's > identify this > compound. Wet Chemistry at the time had to struggle to get > parts-per-hundred > sensitivity on large (by modern standards) samples. In my mind nitrogen > would be especially hard to detect using classical methods. > > Bryan > > > Lex et Libertas -- Semper Vigilo, Paratus, et Fidelis! > > > > *-----Original Message----- > > *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > > *morningstar@att.net > > *Sent: zaterdag 24 juli 2004 14:18 > > *To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > *Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) > > * > > *Don't forget, Rick, that even in a better SEM/EDS instrument > > that detects nitrogen, the layer is probably so thin that the beam > > will drive right through it and excite the phase below, which in > > this case would be the lava. If you have access to a good Monte > > Carlo simulator you can check just what that interaction volume > > would look like for different thicknesses of sideroazot (I had to > > look that one up, I couldn't believe it was a mineral name). > > > > >>>>> Right you are ! It would only be detectable with a very low > > acceleration voltage, and even if siderazot contains percents of N > > it would be very hard to be detected due to the low portion of > > the excitation volume from which those weak X-rays could escape. > > There are other techniques, such as micro-XPS (or ESCA), neutron > > activation analysis etc., but that's certainly totally beyond the > > scope of this list. > > > > For the same reason(s) also the element boron is very hard to > > detect, and is mostly overseen if no very sophisticated techniques are > > involved in the identification process. > > > > Greetings, > > > > Rik DILLEN > > Doornstraat 15 > > B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > > Belgium > > > > Tel. + 32 3 7706007 > > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > > > > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > > >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) > > >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! > > >>> Exchange list > > > > MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 > > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > > Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > > > > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > > >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From morningstar at att.net Sat Jul 24 12:26:01 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Sat Jul 24 12:26:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) Message-ID: <072420041926.21445.4102B7C80005CE7F000053C521587667559D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> The Handbook of Mineralogy has very little data on it, most from the synthetic analogue. This is one of those grandfathered species that give mineralogists a headache and cries out for a neotype description. Don From jbryankramer at msn.com Sat Jul 24 12:27:57 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Jul 24 12:28:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) In-Reply-To: <1090696986.2732.68.camel@localhost> Message-ID: Maybe a mix of the two phases would give an empirical formula of Fe5N2. The Iron Nitride does undergo phase changes between the two compounds. Bryan Lex et Libertas -- Semper Vigilo, Paratus, et Fidelis! > for the MSDS on Ferrous Nitride (Iron Nitride), which is Fe(2)N and > mixture Fe(4)N. The material is used in solid state fabrication as a > masking or doping agent, though not much seems to be known about it's > structure. It seems to be hexagonal. It decomposes above 600 C. > > Surface nitriding of steel is also done to make a harder product. > > Fe(5)N(2) seems not to be mentioned in the chemical literature and is > suspect. > Would it theoretically be Ferric Nitride? From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sat Jul 24 12:57:33 2004 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sat Jul 24 12:57:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20040724094018.03c33a80@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: It's your own fault, Kitty. You shouldn't have brought up 'iridiscent lava'. It triggers my 'siderazot reflex' :-)) BTW I also have a sample of Hawaiian basaltic foam. That is truly weird stuff. Looks like a 30 year old carseat stuffing. Is it common on Hawaii? Cheers, Maurice -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill Heacox Sent: 24 July 2004 21:46 To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) See, Rik? All it took was a good question to get away from literature and back to science (although this chemistry is completely beyond me)! Aloha, Kitty At 08:40 AM 7/24/2004, you wrote: >That is a separate question that I pondered later. Now, while studying >chemistry I am amazed at who discovered what so many hundred years ago; >those folks like Priestley and Lavoisier were more capable than many might >imagine. But I think you know that already (Bryan), because if I'm not >mistaken you've said you are a chemist. Still, fast forward to the modern >day, and I can't imagine using any of the techniques I know how to do, >except *possibly* WDS if you are lucky enough to isolate a very flat >surface--and what are the odds of that happening, given the known >matrix? Now, we could use AES, AAS, or ICPMS to do bulk chemistry and at >least detect Fe and N, but that does not imply stoichiometry or >structure. Of course there was no IMA back then. > >[time lapse] > >I thought I just read in American Mineralogist or Canadian Mineralogist, >or similar juried publication, that the CNMMN had decided on limits for >new minerals in so far as the mineral needs to be detectable as a species >using a minimum of available techniques (i.e., EDS + powder XRD), or words >close to that. Now, I just spent the last few minutes runmmaging through >my recent issues of CanMin and AmMin and can't find the darned thing. If >anyone out there recognizes what I am talking about, please be so kind as >to refer me to an issue and page number. I think I remember Don Peacor's >name being associated with this statement, but again, don't quote me on that. > > >Don > > > > > > > > The question still arises..how did chemists back in the 1800's identify > this > > compound. Wet Chemistry at the time had to struggle to get > parts-per-hundred > > sensitivity on large (by modern standards) samples. In my mind nitrogen > > would be especially hard to detect using classical methods. >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sat Jul 24 12:57:27 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sat Jul 24 12:57:52 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20040724094018.03c33a80@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <000101c471b8$78f5eac0$3fd7c850@maxdata> Yes, I know... you're right. But on the other hand I hope that the list would not loose the not-chemistry-oriented. No, I don't mean Axel... he is a genuine professional chemist ! But also in that direction you are right : good questions provoke good answers, also non-too scientific ones... Greetings, and, BTW, thanks for the question ! Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15 B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium Tel. + 32 3 7706007 E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of *Kitty & Bill Heacox *Sent: zaterdag 24 juli 2004 21:46 *To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors *Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) * * *See, Rik? All it took was a good question to get away from *literature and *back to science (although this chemistry is completely beyond me)! * *Aloha, Kitty * *At 08:40 AM 7/24/2004, you wrote: * *>That is a separate question that I pondered later. Now, *while studying *>chemistry I am amazed at who discovered what so many hundred *years ago; *>those folks like Priestley and Lavoisier were more capable *than many might *>imagine. But I think you know that already (Bryan), because *if I'm not *>mistaken you've said you are a chemist. Still, fast forward *to the modern *>day, and I can't imagine using any of the techniques I know *how to do, *>except *possibly* WDS if you are lucky enough to isolate a very flat *>surface--and what are the odds of that happening, given the known *>matrix? Now, we could use AES, AAS, or ICPMS to do bulk *chemistry and at *>least detect Fe and N, but that does not imply stoichiometry or *>structure. Of course there was no IMA back then. *> *>[time lapse] *> *>I thought I just read in American Mineralogist or Canadian *>Mineralogist, *>or similar juried publication, that the CNMMN had decided on *limits for *>new minerals in so far as the mineral needs to be detectable *as a species *>using a minimum of available techniques (i.e., EDS + powder *XRD), or words *>close to that. Now, I just spent the last few minutes *runmmaging through *>my recent issues of CanMin and AmMin and can't find the *darned thing. If *>anyone out there recognizes what I am talking about, please *be so kind as *>to refer me to an issue and page number. I think I remember *Don Peacor's *>name being associated with this statement, but again, don't *quote me on that. *> *> *>Don *> *> *> *> *> *> *> > The question still arises..how did chemists back in the 1800's *> > identify *> this *> > compound. Wet Chemistry at the time had to struggle to get *> parts-per-hundred *> > sensitivity on large (by modern standards) samples. In my mind *> > nitrogen would be especially hard to detect using *classical methods. *>_______________________________________________ *>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List *>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds *>Subscription Services: *>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds * *_______________________________________________ *Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List *WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds *Subscription Services: *http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds * * From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sat Jul 24 12:57:27 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sat Jul 24 12:57:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000301c471b8$796d1690$3fd7c850@maxdata> Maurice (and others), Nirtogen is indeed quite reactive at high temperatures. Nitrogen dissolved in steel e.g. combines immediately with metallic aluminium as AlN, or with Ti as TiN (and Nb, Ta etc.). we have dedicated selective (electrolytical) dissolution + nanofiltration methods so that we can isolate and analyse them. The problem is, as for mineralogy, that most reactions take place with metallic (native) elements, not with oxides etc. Therefore nitrides are not that common in the mineral kingdom. Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15 B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium Tel. + 32 3 7706007 E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of *Maurice de Graaf *Sent: zaterdag 24 juli 2004 20:57 *To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors *Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) * * *Hi Bryan, * *Beats me :-) But I think that about many more facets of *science. I like to re-live the 19th century mineralogist by *trying to see if some old fashioned *blowpipe- and microanalyses work on throw-away mineral *samples. A lot of them, much to my own surprise, do work *perfectly on only a few grains of mineral.My books failed to *come up with a nitride-specific reaction, but I'm sure there *are a few. Making it work quantitatively is another question.... * *Meanwhile while searching my bookshelve on nitrides, I came *past a possible clue on Siderazot formation. It appears *nitrogen is not an inert gass at all above 200?C. In fact over *that temperature it readily combines with metals to form *nitrides. Burning magnesium metal in air would yield small *amounts of magnesium nitride. So the formation of iron nitride *in hot lava is plausible. I think the formation of siderazot *is mainly ruled by what is NOT there, like chlorine (to form *Molysite), oxygen to form hematite or water. Most nitrides are *instable in water and fall apart in oxides and ammonia. * *Cheers, *Maurice * *PS sorry Rik if this thread is suddenly boring and scientific *in stead of social chit-chat :-)))) * * * * *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of J *Bryan Kramer *Sent: 24 July 2004 20:13 *To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors *Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) * * *The question still arises..how did chemists back in the 1800's *identify this compound. Wet Chemistry at the time had to *struggle to get parts-per-hundred sensitivity on large (by *modern standards) samples. In my mind nitrogen would be *especially hard to detect using classical methods. * *Bryan * * * Lex et Libertas -- Semper Vigilo, Paratus, et Fidelis! * * *> *-----Original Message----- *> *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *> *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of *> *morningstar@att.net *> *Sent: zaterdag 24 juli 2004 14:18 *> *To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem *> collectors *> *Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) *> * *> *Don't forget, Rick, that even in a better SEM/EDS instrument *> that detects nitrogen, the layer is probably so thin that the beam *> will drive right through it and excite the phase below, which in *> this case would be the lava. If you have access to a good Monte *> Carlo simulator you can check just what that interaction volume *> would look like for different thicknesses of sideroazot (I had to *> look that one up, I couldn't believe it was a mineral name). *> *> >>>>> Right you are ! It would only be detectable with a very low *> acceleration voltage, and even if siderazot contains *percents of N it *> would be very hard to be detected due to the low portion of the *> excitation volume from which those weak X-rays could escape. *There are *> other techniques, such as micro-XPS (or ESCA), neutron activation *> analysis etc., but that's certainly totally beyond the scope of this *> list. *> *> For the same reason(s) also the element boron is very hard *to detect, *> and is mostly overseen if no very sophisticated techniques are *> involved in the identification process. *> *> Greetings, *> *> Rik DILLEN *> Doornstraat 15 *> B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas *> Belgium *> *> Tel. + 32 3 7706007 *> E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be *> *> Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen *> >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and *> >>> more) An own find on a Korean (and now again on a *Guinean) postage *> >>> stamp ! Exchange list *> *> MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 *> Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) *> Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen *> http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html *> *> Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ *> >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! *> *> *> *> _______________________________________________ *> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List *> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds *> Subscription Services: *> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds *> * * *_______________________________________________ *Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List *WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds *Subscription Services: *http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds * * *_______________________________________________ *Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List *WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds *Subscription Services: *http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds * * From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sat Jul 24 12:57:27 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sat Jul 24 12:58:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) In-Reply-To: <072420041840.18345.4102AD060002F995000047A921602806519D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: <000401c471b8$799c8b00$3fd7c850@maxdata> *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of *morningstar@att.net *Sent: zaterdag 24 juli 2004 20:40 *To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors *Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) *happening, given the known matrix? Now, we could use AES, AAS, or ICPMS to do bulk chemistry and at least detect Fe and N, but that does not imply stoichiometry or structure. Of course there was no IMA back then. >>>>> The techniques mentioned won't help either : AES would not work because the sample is a non-conductor, AAS cannot operate in the far UV where N-lines are found, and ICPMS cannot analyse N because the plasma is full of it... * Grik Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15 B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium Tel. + 32 3 7706007 E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sat Jul 24 12:57:27 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sat Jul 24 12:58:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c471b8$791d9700$3fd7c850@maxdata> *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J *Bryan Kramer *Sent: zaterdag 24 juli 2004 21:06 *To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors *Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) * *I am a Chemist and mainly do Ion Chromatography now. I do have great respect for the early chemists. I used to have a book from the early 1900's on Inorganic Chemistry and it was amazing what those people could do. And of course the fact is that they did identify this material. >>>>> Imagine that ardennite the formula of ardennite, Mn4(Al,Mg)6(SiO4)2 (Si3O10)[(As,V)O4](OH)6 was determined already in the nineties (of the nineteenth century !), and that not much had to be changed about that formula in recent years. The only mistake that early investigators made was the fact that they found a few % of platinum, which obviously was due to contamination by the platinum crucible in which they dissolved the type material. No modern chemist, even the most skilled, would still be able to realise such an analysis with simple means ! Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15 B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium Tel. + 32 3 7706007 E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sat Jul 24 13:13:37 2004 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sat Jul 24 13:13:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) In-Reply-To: <000301c471b8$796d1690$3fd7c850@maxdata> Message-ID: >The problem is, as for mineralogy, that most reactions take place with metallic >(native) elements, not with oxides etc. >Therefore nitrides are not that common in the mineral kingdom. Agree (why shouldn't I?)! That is why nidtrides are found only in lava/fumaroles where there occur oxygen free micro-environments and in meteorites! cheers, Maurice Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15 B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium Tel. + 32 3 7706007 E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of *Maurice de Graaf *Sent: zaterdag 24 juli 2004 20:57 *To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors *Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) * * *Hi Bryan, * *Beats me :-) But I think that about many more facets of *science. I like to re-live the 19th century mineralogist by *trying to see if some old fashioned *blowpipe- and microanalyses work on throw-away mineral *samples. A lot of them, much to my own surprise, do work *perfectly on only a few grains of mineral.My books failed to *come up with a nitride-specific reaction, but I'm sure there *are a few. Making it work quantitatively is another question.... * *Meanwhile while searching my bookshelve on nitrides, I came *past a possible clue on Siderazot formation. It appears *nitrogen is not an inert gass at all above 200?C. In fact over *that temperature it readily combines with metals to form *nitrides. Burning magnesium metal in air would yield small *amounts of magnesium nitride. So the formation of iron nitride *in hot lava is plausible. I think the formation of siderazot *is mainly ruled by what is NOT there, like chlorine (to form *Molysite), oxygen to form hematite or water. Most nitrides are *instable in water and fall apart in oxides and ammonia. * *Cheers, *Maurice * *PS sorry Rik if this thread is suddenly boring and scientific *in stead of social chit-chat :-)))) * * * * *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of J *Bryan Kramer *Sent: 24 July 2004 20:13 *To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors *Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) * * *The question still arises..how did chemists back in the 1800's *identify this compound. Wet Chemistry at the time had to *struggle to get parts-per-hundred sensitivity on large (by *modern standards) samples. In my mind nitrogen would be *especially hard to detect using classical methods. * *Bryan * * * Lex et Libertas -- Semper Vigilo, Paratus, et Fidelis! * * *> *-----Original Message----- *> *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *> *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of *> *morningstar@att.net *> *Sent: zaterdag 24 juli 2004 14:18 *> *To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem *> collectors *> *Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) *> * *> *Don't forget, Rick, that even in a better SEM/EDS instrument *> that detects nitrogen, the layer is probably so thin that the beam *> will drive right through it and excite the phase below, which in *> this case would be the lava. If you have access to a good Monte *> Carlo simulator you can check just what that interaction volume *> would look like for different thicknesses of sideroazot (I had to *> look that one up, I couldn't believe it was a mineral name). *> *> >>>>> Right you are ! It would only be detectable with a very low *> acceleration voltage, and even if siderazot contains *percents of N it *> would be very hard to be detected due to the low portion of the *> excitation volume from which those weak X-rays could escape. *There are *> other techniques, such as micro-XPS (or ESCA), neutron activation *> analysis etc., but that's certainly totally beyond the scope of this *> list. *> *> For the same reason(s) also the element boron is very hard *to detect, *> and is mostly overseen if no very sophisticated techniques are *> involved in the identification process. *> *> Greetings, *> *> Rik DILLEN *> Doornstraat 15 *> B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas *> Belgium *> *> Tel. + 32 3 7706007 *> E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be *> *> Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen *> >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and *> >>> more) An own find on a Korean (and now again on a *Guinean) postage *> >>> stamp ! Exchange list *> *> MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 *> Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) *> Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen *> http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html *> *> Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ *> >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! *> *> *> *> _______________________________________________ *> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List *> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds *> Subscription Services: *> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds *> * * *_______________________________________________ *Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List *WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds *Subscription Services: *http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds * * *_______________________________________________ *Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List *WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds *Subscription Services: *http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds * * _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From morningstar at att.net Sat Jul 24 13:19:44 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Sat Jul 24 13:19:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) Message-ID: <072420042019.25140.4102C45F000AD3440000623421587667559D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Aha! Thanks for the tip. I learn something every day . . . which begs the question, what kind analytical instrumentation, if any, would qualitatively or quantitatively detect N? Iron is easy; just open up Chamot & Mason, Brush & Penfield, or O.C. Smith; but when it comes down to it, I wonder about the difficult items like H, N, O, elements that are gases at normal temperature and pressure and are also ubiquituous, not only in rocks, but in the reagents used to in determination or specimen preparation. Don > *-----Original Message----- > *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > *morningstar@att.net > *Sent: zaterdag 24 juli 2004 20:40 > *To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > *Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) > *happening, given the known matrix? Now, we could use AES, AAS, or ICPMS to do > bulk chemistry and at least detect Fe and N, but > that does not imply stoichiometry or structure. Of course there was no IMA back > then. > > >>>>> The techniques mentioned won't help either : AES would not work because > the sample is a non-conductor, AAS cannot operate in > the far UV where N-lines are found, and ICPMS cannot analyse N because the > plasma is full of it... > * > Grik > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15 > B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > Belgium > > Tel. + 32 3 7706007 > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) > >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! > >>> Exchange list > > MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at aloha.net Sat Jul 24 14:00:17 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Jul 24 13:34:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) In-Reply-To: References: <6.1.2.0.0.20040724094018.03c33a80@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040724104001.03c37d60@mail.aloha.net> Oh, but I brought up iridescence deliberately to demonstrate how easy it is to get the list off the silly and onto the serious. Getting over my head was a natural and expected consequence. Just about every kind of lava you can imagine is found here. People use truckloads of "cinder" for driveways and in gardens, and I'm always picking up pieces of bright iridescent blue or pale tan "foam" from such places. I particularly like the shiny black pieces that have tendrils and spikes that look like black glass sculptures; some of those have thin areas that are translucent. That kind doesn't survive the truckload treatment and is found at fresh flows. Aloha, Kitty At 09:57 AM 7/24/2004, you wrote: >It's your own fault, Kitty. You shouldn't have brought up 'iridiscent lava'. >It triggers my 'siderazot reflex' :-)) > >BTW I also have a sample of Hawaiian basaltic foam. That is truly weird >stuff. Looks like a 30 year old carseat stuffing. Is it common on Hawaii? > >Cheers, >Maurice > > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill >Heacox >Sent: 24 July 2004 21:46 >To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) > > >See, Rik? All it took was a good question to get away from literature and >back to science (although this chemistry is completely beyond me)! > >Aloha, Kitty > >At 08:40 AM 7/24/2004, you wrote: > > >That is a separate question that I pondered later. Now, while studying > >chemistry I am amazed at who discovered what so many hundred years ago; > >those folks like Priestley and Lavoisier were more capable than many might > >imagine. But I think you know that already (Bryan), because if I'm not > >mistaken you've said you are a chemist. Still, fast forward to the modern > >day, and I can't imagine using any of the techniques I know how to do, > >except *possibly* WDS if you are lucky enough to isolate a very flat > >surface--and what are the odds of that happening, given the known > >matrix? Now, we could use AES, AAS, or ICPMS to do bulk chemistry and at > >least detect Fe and N, but that does not imply stoichiometry or > >structure. Of course there was no IMA back then. > > > >[time lapse] > > > >I thought I just read in American Mineralogist or Canadian Mineralogist, > >or similar juried publication, that the CNMMN had decided on limits for > >new minerals in so far as the mineral needs to be detectable as a species > >using a minimum of available techniques (i.e., EDS + powder XRD), or words > >close to that. Now, I just spent the last few minutes runmmaging through > >my recent issues of CanMin and AmMin and can't find the darned thing. If > >anyone out there recognizes what I am talking about, please be so kind as > >to refer me to an issue and page number. I think I remember Don Peacor's > >name being associated with this statement, but again, don't quote me on >that. > > > > > >Don > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The question still arises..how did chemists back in the 1800's identify > > this > > > compound. Wet Chemistry at the time had to struggle to get > > parts-per-hundred > > > sensitivity on large (by modern standards) samples. In my mind nitrogen > > > would be especially hard to detect using classical methods. > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sat Jul 24 13:50:15 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sat Jul 24 13:50:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) In-Reply-To: <072420042019.25140.4102C45F000AD3440000623421587667559D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: <000001c471bf$d71b9da0$3fd7c850@maxdata> *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of *morningstar@att.net *Sent: zaterdag 24 juli 2004 22:20 *To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors *Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) * *Aha! Thanks for the tip. I learn something every day . . . which begs the question, what kind analytical instrumentation, if any, would qualitatively or quantitatively detect N? Iron is easy; just open up Chamot & Mason, Brush & Penfield, or O.C. Smith; but when it comes down to it, I wonder about the difficult items like H, N, O, elements that are gases at normal temperature and pressure and are also ubiquituous, not only in rocks, but in the reagents used to in determination or specimen preparation. * >>>>> Limited to the case of inorganic bound nitrogen : 1) so-called "combustion" analysis (in fact : no combustion, but thermal decomposition). Instruments made by LECO (USA), HORIBA (not horrible - Japan), and formerly (bankrupt since several years) STR?HLEIN (Germany) et al. This is sort of a bulk analysis. A small aliquot is weighed in an ultrapure graphite crucible, that is heated up to a temperature of about 2400?C (resistance heating, the crucible itself is the resistance in the circuit) in a helium flow. The helium flows over a heat conductance detector, and when traces of N are present, the thermodynamic properties of the gas flow change and this (integrated) change is proportional to the nitrogen present. In most such instruments the determination of N is combined with O, which is detected as CO-gas (C coming from the crucible). Detection limits nowadays around 1 ppm for a 250 mg sample. So if you take a sample scratching the surface you would have a mixture containing a few % of supposed siderazot, but because the N-concentration in siderazot is about 10 % you would probably detect it decently. 2) The good old Kjeldahl method : nitride is destructed with sulphuric acid, and the N is distilled as ammonia gas (NH3), and titrated. This method requires only a very little investment (some glasware and products), but is not very reproducible and not very sensitive (if an aliqout of 3-4 grams (!) of pure material is used for one run the detection limit lies in the neighbourhood of 40-50 ppm. Both methods are BULK methods, so they detect N in the sample, but not in what form or in combination with what element. There is a variant of method # 1, with programmed heating : this is something like Differential Thermal analysis (DTA), and the analyst finds out at what temperature(s) N comes out. By comparison with known compounds it is possible to determine the phase or compound. 3) XPS (Photo-electron spectroscopy) can reveal locally (down to 5-10 ?m) N present in VERY thin atomic layers (in fact in principle one atomic layer is enough). In principle this is the best method (IMO), but the instrumentation i a bit expensive for private use (about 0.8 MEUR or 1 million USD). The only condition is that a sample is needed with a known position covered by the unknown, and the surface (at a small scale) must be quite flat. For most methods the problem is that it is very difficult to sample such a thin layer decently without any substrate. Sorry for the chemistry stuff, but I hope it answers, at least partly, the question. Regards, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15 B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium Tel. + 32 3 7706007 E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! From lanny at lrream.com Sat Jul 24 14:00:22 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sat Jul 24 13:59:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free book for a limerick In-Reply-To: <008a01c46abb$d2a45470$d6be8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> References: <008a01c46abb$d2a45470$d6be8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> Message-ID: <7A3FFB2B-DDB4-11D8-8DAA-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Good hot afternoon everyone, I meant to get this written last night but (obviously) didn't. I enjoyed the limerick contest and reading the entries. The winner is Anita Westlake with the entry below. There were several others that I liked as much, but selected this one because it was not "forced." Limericks are difficult and they often seem to be forced, whereas this one works naturally. It is not structurally perfect, as most limericks aren't (especially the "once" is not needed and breaks an emphasis rule). Stay tuned, more books coming up. Regards, Lanny On Jul 15, 2004, at 3:33 PM, Anita Westlake wrote: > There once was a collector named Bevy > Who gathered rocks both light and heavy > Her house fell to the ground > With a gurgling sound > Cause she collected her rocks from the levee > > Anita D. Westlake, Manager > James S. Guy Chemistry Library > Math/Science Library > 440 Atwood Hall > EMORY UNIVERSITY > Phone: 404-727-4066 > email: anitawestlake@emory.edu > FAX: 404-727-0054 > Website: http://chemistry.library.emory.edu/index.html From morningstar at att.net Sat Jul 24 14:05:08 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Sat Jul 24 14:05:10 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) Message-ID: <072420042105.10174.4102CF0400001294000027BE21587667559D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Well it certainly helps me realize what I *don't* know. I keep waiting for the day when we have the instrumentation capable of describing a mineral that consists of a single unique unit cell. Of course, if I can ever find that article I just read about the limits of new mineral descriptions, I think we'd find that the IMA wouldn't formally acceopt it; but it would be fun to know it exists. Don > Sorry for the chemistry stuff, but I hope it answers, at least partly, the > question. From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Jul 24 14:49:51 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Jul 24 14:50:06 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) References: <000201c471b8$791d9700$3fd7c850@maxdata> Message-ID: <004d01c471c8$29f44a10$6402a8c0@axel> >No, I don't mean Axel... he is a genuine professional chemist ! I know how to hold a test tube... the open side up, if I recall right. Beyond that I know a few things but I 'm not a "genuine professional chemist" in the academic sense of the word. I do work in a chemistry lab but you can train a chimp to do that... in fact, I believe some of my colleagues at work are seriously dragging their knuckles over the floor. > >>>>> Imagine that ardennite the formula of ardennite, Mn4(Al,Mg)6(SiO4)2 (Si3O10)[(As,V)O4](OH)6 > The only mistake that early investigators made was the fact that they found a few % of platinum, which obviously was > due to contamination by the platinum crucible in which they dissolved the type material. When you heat the powdered mineral in a crucible to make an XRF-bead the As eats away the platinum, adding it to the melt. Even a few ppm will do that. Sulfur too but you can remove that by heating the sample with NH4NO3 prior to making the glass bead. Cheers Axel From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sat Jul 24 15:27:07 2004 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sat Jul 24 15:27:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) In-Reply-To: <004d01c471c8$29f44a10$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: >Sulfur too but you can remove that by heating the sample with NH4NO3 prior That is cool!! I remember the procedure from pharmaceutical analyses. If you want to test for chlorine, you should be sure that all the organic chlorine is converted to inorganic chlorides. This is done by heating whatever pill, ointment or something else with a mixture of potassium nitrate and some carbonate. Especially the pharmaceutical preparations with lots of fat in it give off wonderfull fireworks. Well you practically made gunpowder :-))) Of course we made sure to use enough of everything....... cheers, Maurice Cheers Axel _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Sat Jul 24 16:41:12 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Sat Jul 24 16:38:10 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Jim Craig - Sheppey - Trying to Contact In-Reply-To: <7A3FFB2B-DDB4-11D8-8DAA-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <200407242338.i6ONc8eN031771@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Hi All... I was doing some searching on fossils and I came a across a reference to the "late" Jim Craig. I collect with Jim a number of years ago on Sheppey. Does anyone know if he has indeed passed on to the great clay beds in the sky? Regards, Gary From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Jul 24 18:07:32 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Jul 24 17:58:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) References: <072420042019.25140.4102C45F000AD3440000623421587667559D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: <410305A0.7267@Tomaszewski.net> I grabbed Willard, Furman, & Bricker off my shelf and found an answer on page 161... N can be isolated as ammonium sulfate by boiling in sulfuric as in the Kjeldahl process used with organics. Add an excess of sodium hydroxide and distill off the ammonia into a measured volume of standard acid, and then titrate with a standard base and methyl red. Kreigh morningstar@att.net wrote: > > Aha! Thanks for the tip. I learn something every day . . . which begs the question, what kind analytical instrumentation, if any, would qualitatively or quantitatively detect N? Iron is easy; just open up Chamot & Mason, Brush & Penfield, or O.C. Smith; but when it comes down to it, I wonder about the difficult items like H, N, O, elements that are gases at normal temperature and pressure and are also ubiquituous, not only in rocks, but in the reagents used to in determination or specimen pre > > Don > > > > > *-----Original Message----- > > *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > > *morningstar@att.net > > *Sent: zaterdag 24 juli 2004 20:40 > > *To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > *Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) > > *happening, given the known matrix? Now, we could use AES, AAS, or ICPMS to do > > bulk chemistry and at least detect Fe and N, but > > that does not imply stoichiometry or structure. Of course there was no IMA back > > then. > > > > >>>>> The techniques mentioned won't help either : AES would not work because > > the sample is a non-conductor, AAS cannot operate in > > the far UV where N-lines are found, and ICPMS cannot analyse N because the > > plasma is full of it... > > * > > Grik > > > > Rik DILLEN > > Doornstraat 15 > > B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > > Belgium > > > > Tel. + 32 3 7706007 > > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > > > > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > > >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) > > >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! > > >>> Exchange list > > > > MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 > > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > > Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > > > > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > > >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Jul 24 18:24:23 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Jul 24 18:15:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) References: <072420042105.10174.4102CF0400001294000027BE21587667559D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: <41030991.52A0@Tomaszewski.net> http://euromin.w3sites.net/Nouveau_site/mineralogiste/IMA/IMAe.htm will provide you with all the details and procedures needed to have a new mineral named. Kreigh morningstar@att.net wrote: > > Well it certainly helps me realize what I *don't* know. > > I keep waiting for the day when we have the instrumentation capable of describing a mineral that consists of a single unique unit cell. Of course, if I can ever find that article I just read about the limits of new mineral descriptions, I think we'd find that the IMA wouldn't formally acceopt it; but it would be fun to know it exists. > > Don > > > Sorry for the chemistry stuff, but I hope it answers, at least partly, the > > question. From morningstar at att.net Sat Jul 24 18:21:54 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Sat Jul 24 18:21:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) Message-ID: <072520040121.20820.41030B320004BBB70000515421587667559D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> > I grabbed Willard, Furman, & Bricker off my shelf and found an answer on > page 161... > > N can be isolated as ammonium sulfate by boiling in sulfuric as in the > Kjeldahl process used with organics. Oh cool, I'll do that right away. Oh shoot, ran out of sulfuric. (Actually I won't keep sulfuric, HCN, or HF in the house, for obvious reasons). But seriously, what is that book? I thought I had every major wet chemistry book since Magnuficious, Alchemist to King Aleric the XXIXth, but that's a new one. Of course most of mine are strictly inorganic classics. Don From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sat Jul 24 18:27:14 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sat Jul 24 18:27:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Jim Craig - Sheppey - Trying to Contact References: <200407242338.i6ONc8eN031771@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <008901c471e6$8455aa80$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> That's what heard at least a year ago. But I don't live in the UK, so I can't personally verify it. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Brown" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 7:41 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Jim Craig - Sheppey - Trying to Contact > Hi All... > > I was doing some searching on fossils and I came a across a reference to the > "late" Jim Craig. I collect with Jim a number of years ago on Sheppey. > Does anyone know if he has indeed passed on to the great clay beds in the > sky? > > Regards, > Gary > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From morningstar at att.net Sat Jul 24 18:28:19 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Sat Jul 24 18:28:20 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) Message-ID: <072520040128.24195.41030CB20009D49700005E8321587667559D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Oh don't worry, I am painfully familiar with those. However, there were some recent additions to policy--or at least, proposed additions, to which I referred in an earlier e-mail, and which I still haven't found--that indicate it will be a bit more difficult to name a species like this one from now on. These haven't made it to that website yet. Thanks, Don > http://euromin.w3sites.net/Nouveau_site/mineralogiste/IMA/IMAe.htm will > provide you with all the details and procedures needed to have a new > mineral named. > > Kreigh > > > > > morningstar@att.net wrote: > > > > Well it certainly helps me realize what I *don't* know. > > > > I keep waiting for the day when we have the instrumentation capable of > describing a mineral that consists of a single unique unit cell. Of course, if > I can ever find that article I just read about the limits of new mineral > descriptions, I think we'd find that the IMA wouldn't formally acceopt it; but > it would be fun to know it exists. > > > > Don > > > > > Sorry for the chemistry stuff, but I hope it answers, at least partly, the > > > question. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From morningstar at att.net Sat Jul 24 18:42:21 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Sat Jul 24 18:42:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava)(new rules for new species) Message-ID: <072520040142.9937.41030FFC00046F25000026D121602810609D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> AHA!!! I found it. See CanMin Vol. 42, part 3, June 2004, p. 913: "On request of and according to the proposal of Donald Peacor, the following recommendations on CNMMN procedures have been approved in 1999-2000, but never published until now: * Mineral status should be accorded to those materials occuring in submicrometric crystallites only if they are of sufficient total volume or concentration to be detected by at least one commonly used laboratory technique . . . " So I didn't quite remember the quote correctly; there are important nuances therein. I had it bookmarked because I intend to follow up and find out exactly what this means. In any case, if siderazot were proposed today, I think it would be subject to consideration of this new proviso. Don From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Jul 24 19:21:51 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Jul 24 19:12:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) References: <072520040121.20820.41030B320004BBB70000515421587667559D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: <41031701.74C1@Tomaszewski.net> Don, Elements of Quantitative Analysis [Theory and Practice] by Hobart H. Willard, N. Howell Furman, and Clark E. Bricker, published by D. Van Nostrand Company, Inc of Princeton, New Jersey. I have the fourth edition from 1956 (others were 1933, 1935, and 1940). Library of Congress Catalog Card 56-5023. 576 pages. A quick google search shows you can pick up a copy online at abebooks.com for $5 to $15 (plus shipping) depending on edition and condition. Kreigh morningstar@att.net wrote: > > > I grabbed Willard, Furman, & Bricker off my shelf and found an answer on > > page 161... > > > > N can be isolated as ammonium sulfate by boiling in sulfuric as in the > > Kjeldahl process used with organics. > > Oh cool, I'll do that right away. Oh shoot, ran out of sulfuric. (Actually I won't keep sulfuric, > HCN, or HF in the house, for obvious reasons). > > But seriously, what is that book? I thought I had every major wet chemistry book since Magnuficious, > Alchemist to King Aleric the XXIXth, but that's a new one. Of course most of mine are strictly > inorganic classics. > > Don From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Sat Jul 24 20:35:18 2004 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sat Jul 24 20:37:42 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Iridescent rainbows in minerals, bugs, etc. References: <200407241857.i6OIvaJX007634@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <41032A76.000001.60889@PRES4770> Kitty wrote about this phenomenon and Don stole my thunder... Although I am an amateur rockhound, I am by profession a communications engineer with a degree in electrical engineering. Since Don beat me to it, I just want to agree with him and make an effort to simplify what he wrote. Surely we are all familiar with the effect of a prism in sunlight - it separates the "white" light into the familiar rainbow colors. This happens because, as Don said, the different wavelengths of light travel through the medium (glass or crystal in a prism - water droplets in the rainbows that are so common and awesome in Hawaii - fiber optics in communication) at slightly different speeds. The light enters one face and gets to the other side, each wavelength separated, and comes out so that we see the rainbow of colors. Obviously, again as Don said, mineral crystal has varying degrees of clarity and reflectivity. So do iridescent bugs and other things. Modern fiber optic cables allow only one specific wavelength to travel through. At about 10 years old, I KNEW I could see colors but had some difficulty understanding colors are the wavelengths of light. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/gif image/gif image/unknown --- From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Sat Jul 24 21:18:41 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Sat Jul 24 21:15:36 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Jim Craig - Sheppey - Trying to Contact In-Reply-To: <008901c471e6$8455aa80$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <200407250415.i6P4FYe0023353@bubbleator.drizzle.com> *sigh* He was a true "amateur" in the classic sense. A person who had nothing to do with geology in his day job, but was one of THE best fossil people I have ever know. A loss... GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Alan Goldstein > Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 8:27 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Jim Craig - Sheppey - Trying to Contact > > That's what heard at least a year ago. But I don't live in > the UK, so I can't personally verify it. > > Alan From Docia1154 at aol.com Sun Jul 25 05:40:16 2004 From: Docia1154 at aol.com (Docia1154@aol.com) Date: Sun Jul 25 05:40:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] You might be a rockhound if...... Message-ID: <9.2f0682d4.2e350430@aol.com> yeah yeah I know - I'm off on frivilous, but enjoy You Might Be a Rockhound If ... 1. You own more pieces of quartz than underwear. 2. Your rock collection weighs more than you do. 3. Your rock garden is located inside your house. 4. You can pronounce the word "molybdenite" correctly on the first try. 5. You don't think of "cleavage" the same way everyone else does. 6. You have ever uttered the phrase "have you tried licking it" with no sexual connotations involved. 7. You think the primary function of road cuts is tourist attractions. 8. You find yourself compelled to examine individual rocks in driveway gravel. 9. You're planning on using a pick and shovel while you're on vacation. 10. Your internet home page has pictures of your rocks. 11. You will walk across eight lanes of freeway traffic to see if the outcrop on the other side of the highway is the same type of rock as the side you're parked on. 12. You can point out where Tsumeb is on a world globe. 13. The baggage handlers at the airport know you by name and refuse to help with your luggage. 14. You have ever found yourself trying to explain to airport security that a rock hammer isn't really a weapon. 15. You never throw away anything. 16. You have ever taken a 22-passenger van over "roads" that were really intended only for cattle. 17. You consider a "recent event" to be anything that has happened in the last hundred thousand years. 18. You have ever had to respond "yes" to the question, "What have you got in here, rocks?" --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Lapidry at aol.com Sun Jul 25 06:02:24 2004 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Sun Jul 25 06:02:33 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] You might be a rockhound if...... Message-ID: <29.5d1e6769.2e350960@aol.com> Some interesting new (at least new to me) additions to the list. If you'd like to see the original list created over 8 years ago, go to http://fgms.home.att.net/rokhound.htm - several of the items on your list come from that list. To give a little history, there used to be a Special Interest Group (SIG) of rock club newsletter editors and one of the editors e-mailed a proposal to make a list on this subject. Within a couple of days, we had the list at this website. I've seen quite a few additions to it over the years. It's always fun to see what people come up with. Maybe it's time to have another round of new "You might's." Dan In a message dated 7/25/2004 8:40:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, Docia1154@aol.com writes: yeah yeah I know - I'm off on frivilous, but enjoy You Might Be a Rockhound If ... 1. You own more pieces of quartz than underwear. 2. Your rock collection weighs more than you do. 3. Your rock garden is located inside your house. 4. You can pronounce the word "molybdenite" correctly on the first try. 5. You don't think of "cleavage" the same way everyone else does. 6. You have ever uttered the phrase "have you tried licking it" with no sexual connotations involved. 7. You think the primary function of road cuts is tourist attractions. 8. You find yourself compelled to examine individual rocks in driveway gravel. 9. You're planning on using a pick and shovel while you're on vacation. 10. Your internet home page has pictures of your rocks. 11. You will walk across eight lanes of freeway traffic to see if the outcrop on the other side of the highway is the same type of rock as the side you're parked on. 12. You can point out where Tsumeb is on a world globe. 13. The baggage handlers at the airport know you by name and refuse to help with your luggage. 14. You have ever found yourself trying to explain to airport security that a rock hammer isn't really a weapon. 15. You never throw away anything. 16. You have ever taken a 22-passenger van over "roads" that were really intended only for cattle. 17. You consider a "recent event" to be anything that has happened in the last hundred thousand years. 18. You have ever had to respond "yes" to the question, "What have you got in here, rocks?" --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Docia1154 at aol.com Sun Jul 25 06:07:02 2004 From: Docia1154 at aol.com (Docia1154@aol.com) Date: Sun Jul 25 06:07:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] You might be a rockhound if...... Message-ID: In a message dated 7/25/2004 8:02:54 AM Central Daylight Time, Lapidry@aol.com writes: Some interesting new (at least new to me) additions to the list. If you'd like to see the original list created over 8 years ago, go to http://fgms.home.att.net/rokhound.htm - several of the items on your list come from that list. To give a little history, there used to be a Special Interest Group (SIG) of rock club newsletter editors and one of the editors e-mailed a proposal to make a list on this subject. Within a couple of days, we had the list at this website. I've seen quite a few additions to it over the years. It's always fun to see what people come up with. Maybe it's time to have another round of new "You might's." cool, I like the history of it. thanks for sharing the info --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sun Jul 25 06:13:58 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sun Jul 25 06:14:19 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] You might be a rockhound if...... In-Reply-To: <9.2f0682d4.2e350430@aol.com> Message-ID: <000a01c47249$422003f0$6dc4c950@maxdata> Splendid ! Rik DILLEN *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of *Docia1154@aol.com *Sent: zondag 25 juli 2004 14:40 *To: gbrown@catspaw-minerals.com; rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com *Subject: [Rockhounds] You might be a rockhound if...... * * *yeah yeah I know - I'm off on frivilous, but enjoy * *You Might Be a Rockhound If ... * *1. You own more pieces of quartz than underwear. * *2. Your rock collection weighs more than you do. * *3. Your rock garden is located inside your house. * *4. You can pronounce the word "molybdenite" correctly on the *first try. * *5. You don't think of "cleavage" the same way everyone else does. * *6. You have ever uttered the phrase "have you tried licking *it" with no *sexual connotations involved. * *7. You think the primary function of road cuts is tourist attractions. * *8. You find yourself compelled to examine individual rocks in driveway *gravel. * *9. You're planning on using a pick and shovel while you're on *vacation. * *10. Your internet home page has pictures of your rocks. * *11. You will walk across eight lanes of freeway traffic to see *if the outcrop *on the other side of the highway is the same type of rock as *the side you're *parked on. * *12. You can point out where Tsumeb is on a world globe. * *13. The baggage handlers at the airport know you by name and *refuse to help *with your luggage. * *14. You have ever found yourself trying to explain to airport *security that a *rock hammer isn't really a weapon. * *15. You never throw away anything. * *16. You have ever taken a 22-passenger van over "roads" that *were really *intended only for cattle. * *17. You consider a "recent event" to be anything that has *happened in the *last hundred thousand years. * *18. You have ever had to respond "yes" to the question, "What *have you got in *here, rocks?" * * *--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative * text/plain (text body -- kept) * text/html *--- *_______________________________________________ *Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List *WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds *Subscription Services: *http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds * * From volgems at icx.net Sun Jul 25 06:22:35 2004 From: volgems at icx.net (John Teague) Date: Sun Jul 25 06:22:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] You might be a rockhound if...... Message-ID: <26886473.1090761756325.JavaMail.root@wamui02.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Wonderful! -----Original Message----- From: Rik Dillen Sent: Jul 25, 2004 9:13 AM To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] You might be a rockhound if...... Splendid ! Rik DILLEN *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of *Docia1154@aol.com *Sent: zondag 25 juli 2004 14:40 *To: gbrown@catspaw-minerals.com; rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com *Subject: [Rockhounds] You might be a rockhound if...... * * *yeah yeah I know - I'm off on frivilous, but enjoy * *You Might Be a Rockhound If ... * *1. You own more pieces of quartz than underwear. * *2. Your rock collection weighs more than you do. * *3. Your rock garden is located inside your house. * *4. You can pronounce the word "molybdenite" correctly on the *first try. * *5. You don't think of "cleavage" the same way everyone else does. * *6. You have ever uttered the phrase "have you tried licking *it" with no *sexual connotations involved. * *7. You think the primary function of road cuts is tourist attractions. * *8. You find yourself compelled to examine individual rocks in driveway *gravel. * *9. You're planning on using a pick and shovel while you're on *vacation. * *10. Your internet home page has pictures of your rocks. * *11. You will walk across eight lanes of freeway traffic to see *if the outcrop *on the other side of the highway is the same type of rock as *the side you're *parked on. * *12. You can point out where Tsumeb is on a world globe. * *13. The baggage handlers at the airport know you by name and *refuse to help *with your luggage. * *14. You have ever found yourself trying to explain to airport *security that a *rock hammer isn't really a weapon. * *15. You never throw away anything. * *16. You have ever taken a 22-passenger van over "roads" that *were really *intended only for cattle. * *17. You consider a "recent event" to be anything that has *happened in the *last hundred thousand years. * *18. You have ever had to respond "yes" to the question, "What *have you got in *here, rocks?" * * *--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative * text/plain (text body -- kept) * text/html *--- *_______________________________________________ *Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List *WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds *Subscription Services: *http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds * * _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sun Jul 25 08:30:50 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun Jul 25 08:30:49 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] You might be a rockhound if...... References: <9.2f0682d4.2e350430@aol.com> Message-ID: <003301c4725c$5e01f200$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I have some individual comments on many of those and added a 19th to the list. Alan > You Might Be a Rockhound If ... > > 1. You own more pieces of quartz than underwear. (Yes, for almost as long as I've had underwear.) > > 2. Your rock collection weighs more than you do. (Since I was a child, my collection has gained more weight than me. While not exponential, I sure there is a mathematical formula.) > > 3. Your rock garden is located inside your house. (Both inside and out.) > > 4. You can pronounce the word "molybdenite" correctly on the first try. (How about other words like allochtonous?) > > 5. You don't think of "cleavage" the same way everyone else does. (How about both ways?) > > 6. You have ever uttered the phrase "have you tried licking it" with no > sexual connotations involved. (How about spitting on a rock to see what it looks like polished?) > > 7. You think the primary function of road cuts is tourist attractions. (You bet they are!!!) > > 8. You find yourself compelled to examine individual rocks in driveway gravel. (Not just examine, but take some home with you.) > > 9. You're planning on using a pick and shovel while you're on vacation. (You also save any newspaper you get at the motel.) > > 10. Your internet home page has pictures of your rocks. (One of these days when I have time to create one!) > > 11. You will walk across eight lanes of freeway traffic to see if the outcrop > on the other side of the highway is the same type of rock as the side you're > parked on. (Sorry, I may be dedicated, but no suicidal! Four lanes is my limit!) > > 12. You can point out where Tsumeb is on a world globe. (Also Cave in Rock) > > 13. The baggage handlers at the airport know you by name and refuse to help > with your luggage. (Don't travel THAT much!) > > 14. You have ever found yourself trying to explain to airport security that a > rock hammer isn't really a weapon. (No, but explaining the rocks packed in the boxes accompanying your luggage. Only a crazy person would pack siderite nodules on a plane!) > > 15. You never throw away anything. (It's called "recycling!") > > 16. You have ever taken a 22-passenger van over "roads" that were really > intended only for cattle. (No, but driven some old mine roads.) > > 17. You consider a "recent event" to be anything that has happened in the > last hundred thousand years. (Actually my cut-off is about 20,000 years!) > > 18. You have ever had to respond "yes" to the question, "What have you got in > here, rocks?" (How about rocks in the top-mounted luggage rack driving up Mt. Washington, New Hampshire?) My 19. - Can remember fossil names better than people's names. From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sun Jul 25 09:48:08 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sun Jul 25 09:44:05 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice? Message-ID: <004901c47267$2b259de0$06a4490c@pete> Hi, Rockhounds, I wonder if anyone would care to share any advice with me, about buying a digital camera? I'm sure this has been discussed online here before, but everything's always changing rapidly, and I probably don't have any of the old posts anyway. I'll appreciate any comments (or sources of info) any of you have to share. If you'd like to send info that may not be of general interest to the group, please just email it to me directly, pjmodreski@att.net I know there are a (bewildering?) number and kinds of cameras available, with all kinds of features. I'd like one mainly that is good for general-purpose use, taking pictures on field trips, of rock outcrops, occasional use for close-up macro photos of minerals, etc. I do want a camera that has a reasonably good macro capability; many of the camera comparisons I've seen don't always seem to give much info about this, and I don't exactly know what parameter to look for that "quantifies" macro capability. However, this is still not something I'm going to use all the time--i.e., I don't take mineral pictures to post online for sales or auctions, or anything like that. My use of the camera will generally be more that of "a geologist who likes to take rock and field trip pictures", than for close-up photos of minerals, but I want to be able to do that too. For those who care to read, here's what I think I'd like to find, based on the (relatively little) I know so far about digital cameras: >From what I know, a 3 or 4 megapixel resolution is probably all I need. I doubt that I'd ever need to print out large-format hi-res prints. Good macro capability (for minerals, flowers, etc.). Reasonably good zoom. Moderate price (I can probably be satisfied with a camera in or near the $200-$400 price range; I probably don't want to spend any more than that.) Simple to operate (at work, we used to have a Nikon Coolpix (9500?) camera that was totally overwhelming as far as the number of menu options; I could never figure out how to do ANYTHING without carefully reading the manual. I don't need all that jazz-a-ma-tazz, though I am used to using my conventional 35mm SLR (Canon) camera where I always enjoy making my own focus and exposure settings. Simple and convenient to transfer pictures (that Nikon Coolpix again--I NEVER could get it to download pictures (it could only do it through a cable) to my somewhat older home computer (uses Window 98SE). I doubt that I'd use the digital movie capability that some cameras have, very much. I've been advised to get an upgraded memory card rather than the minimum that comes with most cameras; and, that a card reader accessory is very handy. Also to get rechargeable batteries for the camera. A question--do all digital cameras include a built-in flash? I've seen some that have a shoe for a separate flash--I'd just as soon have it built-in. And I'd almost consider getting a weatherproof camera, of which I've seen a few. I think I "destroyed" our Coolpix one day, by taking it with me on a hike and taking pictures on a moderately wet, snowy day--the camera only got a "little" wet, but.... Anyone had any experience with this? I'll appreciate very much, any advice you all have! Any other special comments I haven't thought of, or things to look for, or to avoid? Many thanks, Pete Modreski --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From ki3u at hotmail.com Sun Jul 25 09:55:53 2004 From: ki3u at hotmail.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Sun Jul 25 09:55:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice? Message-ID: Pete There are some seemingly minor details with digital cameras that can loom large in actual use. In particular you will not regret choosing a model which has a very positive on/off switch detent. Some of these cameras have very light power-switch detents; what often happens is you slip the camera in its case or or in your pocket, and the power switch slides to on. Later when you want to take a pix you discover the batteries have discharged and are too low to take a pix. Berj >From: "Peter J. Modreski" >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@Lists.Drizzle.Com" >Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice? >Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 10:48:08 -0600 > >Hi, Rockhounds, > >I wonder if anyone would care to share any advice with me, about buying a >digital camera? I'm sure this has been discussed online here before, but >everything's always changing rapidly, and I probably don't have any of the >old posts anyway. > >I'll appreciate any comments (or sources of info) any of you have to share. > If you'd like to send info that may not be of general interest to the >group, please just email it to me directly, pjmodreski@att.net > >I know there are a (bewildering?) number and kinds of cameras available, >with all kinds of features. I'd like one mainly that is good for >general-purpose use, taking pictures on field trips, of rock outcrops, >occasional use for close-up macro photos of minerals, etc. > >I do want a camera that has a reasonably good macro capability; many of the >camera comparisons I've seen don't always seem to give much info about >this, and I don't exactly know what parameter to look for that "quantifies" >macro capability. However, this is still not something I'm going to use >all the time--i.e., I don't take mineral pictures to post online for sales >or auctions, or anything like that. My use of the camera will generally be >more that of "a geologist who likes to take rock and field trip pictures", >than for close-up photos of minerals, but I want to be able to do that too. > For those who care to read, here's what I think I'd like to find, based >on the (relatively little) I know so far about digital cameras: > > >From what I know, a 3 or 4 megapixel resolution is probably all I need. >I doubt that I'd ever need to print out large-format hi-res prints. > >Good macro capability (for minerals, flowers, etc.). > >Reasonably good zoom. > >Moderate price (I can probably be satisfied with a camera in or near the >$200-$400 price range; I probably don't want to spend any more than that.) > >Simple to operate (at work, we used to have a Nikon Coolpix (9500?) camera >that was totally overwhelming as far as the number of menu options; I could >never figure out how to do ANYTHING without carefully reading the manual. >I don't need all that jazz-a-ma-tazz, though I am used to using my >conventional 35mm SLR (Canon) camera where I always enjoy making my own >focus and exposure settings. > >Simple and convenient to transfer pictures (that Nikon Coolpix again--I >NEVER could get it to download pictures (it could only do it through a >cable) to my somewhat older home computer (uses Window 98SE). > >I doubt that I'd use the digital movie capability that some cameras have, >very much. > >I've been advised to get an upgraded memory card rather than the minimum >that comes with most cameras; and, that a card reader accessory is very >handy. Also to get rechargeable batteries for the camera. > >A question--do all digital cameras include a built-in flash? I've seen >some that have a shoe for a separate flash--I'd just as soon have it >built-in. > >And I'd almost consider getting a weatherproof camera, of which I've seen a >few. I think I "destroyed" our Coolpix one day, by taking it with me on a >hike and taking pictures on a moderately wet, snowy day--the camera only >got a "little" wet, but.... Anyone had any experience with this? > >I'll appreciate very much, any advice you all have! Any other special >comments I haven't thought of, or things to look for, or to avoid? Many >thanks, > >Pete Modreski > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ From kahako at aloha.net Sun Jul 25 11:25:57 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Jul 25 10:59:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice? In-Reply-To: <004901c47267$2b259de0$06a4490c@pete> References: <004901c47267$2b259de0$06a4490c@pete> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040725073900.0330c5e0@mail.aloha.net> Hi Pete, Believe it or not, a good place to get camera information is at amazon.com ! They give the manufacturer's technical specifications and description, picture of the camera, price, and a review by an amazon.com reviewer. Then they give reviews by people who have bought and used the camera, and this information is extremely helpful. They cover things that even photo magazine reviews often overlook, like how easy it is to understand the manual, or which computer systems it has problems with. I'm not saying you should necessarily buy the camera through amazon.com because their prices may not be the best. The best prices can often be found through one of the mail order places that advertise in the back section of photography magazines. We have used a few of those over the years with no problems and swift delivery. We have a Fujifilm FinePix 3800 3MP Digital Camera w/ 6x Optical Zoom and are happy with it, and it seems to fit most of the criteria you describe below. It's a little bit big and heavy compared to the ones you can slip in a chest pocket or wear like a necklace, but it's smaller and lighter than an older 35mm SLR. Aloha, Kitty At 06:48 AM 7/25/2004, you wrote: >Hi, Rockhounds, > >I wonder if anyone would care to share any advice with me, about buying a >digital camera? I'm sure this has been discussed online here before, but >everything's always changing rapidly, and I probably don't have any of the >old posts anyway. > >I'll appreciate any comments (or sources of info) any of you have to >share. If you'd like to send info that may not be of general interest to >the group, please just email it to me directly, pjmodreski@att.net > >I know there are a (bewildering?) number and kinds of cameras available, >with all kinds of features. I'd like one mainly that is good for >general-purpose use, taking pictures on field trips, of rock outcrops, >occasional use for close-up macro photos of minerals, etc. > >I do want a camera that has a reasonably good macro capability; many of >the camera comparisons I've seen don't always seem to give much info about >this, and I don't exactly know what parameter to look for that >"quantifies" macro capability. However, this is still not something I'm >going to use all the time--i.e., I don't take mineral pictures to post >online for sales or auctions, or anything like that. My use of the camera >will generally be more that of "a geologist who likes to take rock and >field trip pictures", than for close-up photos of minerals, but I want to >be able to do that too. For those who care to read, here's what I think >I'd like to find, based on the (relatively little) I know so far about >digital cameras: > > >From what I know, a 3 or 4 megapixel resolution is probably all I > need. I doubt that I'd ever need to print out large-format hi-res prints. > >Good macro capability (for minerals, flowers, etc.). > >Reasonably good zoom. > >Moderate price (I can probably be satisfied with a camera in or near the >$200-$400 price range; I probably don't want to spend any more than that.) > >Simple to operate (at work, we used to have a Nikon Coolpix (9500?) camera >that was totally overwhelming as far as the number of menu options; I >could never figure out how to do ANYTHING without carefully reading the >manual. I don't need all that jazz-a-ma-tazz, though I am used to using >my conventional 35mm SLR (Canon) camera where I always enjoy making my own >focus and exposure settings. > >Simple and convenient to transfer pictures (that Nikon Coolpix again--I >NEVER could get it to download pictures (it could only do it through a >cable) to my somewhat older home computer (uses Window 98SE). > >I doubt that I'd use the digital movie capability that some cameras have, >very much. > >I've been advised to get an upgraded memory card rather than the minimum >that comes with most cameras; and, that a card reader accessory is very >handy. Also to get rechargeable batteries for the camera. > >A question--do all digital cameras include a built-in flash? I've seen >some that have a shoe for a separate flash--I'd just as soon have it built-in. > >And I'd almost consider getting a weatherproof camera, of which I've seen >a few. I think I "destroyed" our Coolpix one day, by taking it with me on >a hike and taking pictures on a moderately wet, snowy day--the camera only >got a "little" wet, but.... Anyone had any experience with this? > >I'll appreciate very much, any advice you all have! Any other special >comments I haven't thought of, or things to look for, or to avoid? Many >thanks, > >Pete Modreski > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Gslrocks at aol.com Sun Jul 25 11:01:30 2004 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Sun Jul 25 11:01:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice? Message-ID: <12a.46f35d79.2e354f7a@aol.com> if you get a camera and plan on close ups make sure the macro feature will let you get close to show structure and small specimens! Greg Lesinski GSLROCKS 4726 Porter Center Rd. Lewiston NY 14092 Fluorescent minerals, ultraviolet lamps and reference books website www.gslrocks.com GSLROCKS@AOL.COM 716-754-9729 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Jul 25 11:21:38 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Jul 25 11:21:41 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] You might be a rockhound if...... References: <000a01c47249$422003f0$6dc4c950@maxdata> Message-ID: <003101c47274$3d750af0$6402a8c0@axel> Rik wrote > Splendid ! You're a rockhound if you think Rik really meant "splendite".... Cheers Axel (frivolous but enjoyable, I hope ;-)))) > > *-----Original Message----- > *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > *Docia1154@aol.com > *Sent: zondag 25 juli 2004 14:40 > *To: gbrown@catspaw-minerals.com; rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > *Subject: [Rockhounds] You might be a rockhound if...... > * > * > *yeah yeah I know - I'm off on frivilous, but enjoy > * > *You Might Be a Rockhound If ... > * > *1. You own more pieces of quartz than underwear. > * > *2. Your rock collection weighs more than you do. > * > *3. Your rock garden is located inside your house. > * > *4. You can pronounce the word "molybdenite" correctly on the > *first try. > * > *5. You don't think of "cleavage" the same way everyone else does. > * > *6. You have ever uttered the phrase "have you tried licking > *it" with no > *sexual connotations involved. > * > *7. You think the primary function of road cuts is tourist attractions. > * > *8. You find yourself compelled to examine individual rocks in driveway > *gravel. > * > *9. You're planning on using a pick and shovel while you're on > *vacation. > * > *10. Your internet home page has pictures of your rocks. > * > *11. You will walk across eight lanes of freeway traffic to see > *if the outcrop > *on the other side of the highway is the same type of rock as > *the side you're > *parked on. > * > *12. You can point out where Tsumeb is on a world globe. > * > *13. The baggage handlers at the airport know you by name and > *refuse to help > *with your luggage. > * > *14. You have ever found yourself trying to explain to airport > *security that a > *rock hammer isn't really a weapon. > * > *15. You never throw away anything. > * > *16. You have ever taken a 22-passenger van over "roads" that > *were really > *intended only for cattle. > * > *17. You consider a "recent event" to be anything that has > *happened in the > *last hundred thousand years. > * > *18. You have ever had to respond "yes" to the question, "What > *have you got in > *here, rocks?" > * > * > *--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative > * text/plain (text body -- kept) > * text/html > *--- > *_______________________________________________ > *Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > *WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > *Subscription Services: > *http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > * > * > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Jul 25 11:37:03 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Jul 25 11:37:06 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice? References: <004901c47267$2b259de0$06a4490c@pete> Message-ID: <004b01c47276$64b44660$6402a8c0@axel> Hi, Pete I have a Nikon Coolpix 4500 and a Canon Powershot G1. Both have their pro and cons but neither is perfect... The Nikon is too complex and the Canon not sophisticated enough. It all boils down to "what do you need it for?" This is a great site that I used to decide which one to buy: http://dpreview.com/ I think you should look there first and choose a camera you like. Then try to find people who have it and exchange comments and experiences. Good luck Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" To: "Rockhounds@Lists.Drizzle.Com" Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 6:48 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice? Hi, Rockhounds, I wonder if anyone would care to share any advice with me, about buying a digital camera? I'm sure this has been discussed online here before, but everything's always changing rapidly, and I probably don't have any of the old posts anyway. I'll appreciate any comments (or sources of info) any of you have to share. If you'd like to send info that may not be of general interest to the group, please just email it to me directly, pjmodreski@att.net I know there are a (bewildering?) number and kinds of cameras available, with all kinds of features. I'd like one mainly that is good for general-purpose use, taking pictures on field trips, of rock outcrops, occasional use for close-up macro photos of minerals, etc. I do want a camera that has a reasonably good macro capability; many of the camera comparisons I've seen don't always seem to give much info about this, and I don't exactly know what parameter to look for that "quantifies" macro capability. However, this is still not something I'm going to use all the time--i.e., I don't take mineral pictures to post online for sales or auctions, or anything like that. My use of the camera will generally be more that of "a geologist who likes to take rock and field trip pictures", than for close-up photos of minerals, but I want to be able to do that too. For those who care to read, here's what I think I'd like to find, based on the (relatively little) I know so far about digital cameras: >From what I know, a 3 or 4 megapixel resolution is probably all I need. I doubt that I'd ever need to print out large-format hi-res prints. Good macro capability (for minerals, flowers, etc.). Reasonably good zoom. Moderate price (I can probably be satisfied with a camera in or near the $200-$400 price range; I probably don't want to spend any more than that.) Simple to operate (at work, we used to have a Nikon Coolpix (9500?) camera that was totally overwhelming as far as the number of menu options; I could never figure out how to do ANYTHING without carefully reading the manual. I don't need all that jazz-a-ma-tazz, though I am used to using my conventional 35mm SLR (Canon) camera where I always enjoy making my own focus and exposure settings. Simple and convenient to transfer pictures (that Nikon Coolpix again--I NEVER could get it to download pictures (it could only do it through a cable) to my somewhat older home computer (uses Window 98SE). I doubt that I'd use the digital movie capability that some cameras have, very much. I've been advised to get an upgraded memory card rather than the minimum that comes with most cameras; and, that a card reader accessory is very handy. Also to get rechargeable batteries for the camera. A question--do all digital cameras include a built-in flash? I've seen some that have a shoe for a separate flash--I'd just as soon have it built-in. And I'd almost consider getting a weatherproof camera, of which I've seen a few. I think I "destroyed" our Coolpix one day, by taking it with me on a hike and taking pictures on a moderately wet, snowy day--the camera only got a "little" wet, but.... Anyone had any experience with this? I'll appreciate very much, any advice you all have! Any other special comments I haven't thought of, or things to look for, or to avoid? Many thanks, Pete Modreski --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sun Jul 25 11:57:48 2004 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sun Jul 25 11:57:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice? In-Reply-To: <004901c47267$2b259de0$06a4490c@pete> Message-ID: Hi Pete et.al., All I can tell you is about my own experience with my Coolpix 4500. The main advantage is that is a really good camera for macro work. That was the factor that made me buy this one. If you have good light the macro-zoom ends roughly where my 25x binocular starts. With a home made adaptor for that binocular I can photograph about every size of rock down to about 1/10 of a millimeter, depending on contrast and flatness of the composition. You find your Coolpix 9500 too complex. I don't know a 9500, but the 4500 is also quite complex. This is no disadvantage to me. Once you figured out the macro mode you use it pretty much all the time. A more complex camera with more possibilities is positive to me. invest a few hours or days playing with it and you might find just that special mode you need for a particular picture. The trick is throw away the 164 page manual and start googling!!! In the Google forums are anwers for every setting. The 4500 comes with a number of preset modes, one of which is 'macro'. These setting are good enough for most situations.For larger museum pieces you go to.... correct 'museum mode'. Can't get much easier than that! There a number of manual modes which let you control exposure time, diafram etc. They work great too, but similar to the old fashioned camera's you need to invest some time to figure out how to take a good picture. Still my wasted digital shots are nothing compared to my wasted film in old camera's. Each digital photo has additional info displaying the settings, so you can easily check your parameters. Uploading to the PC can not get much easier. Plug your camera in, switch it on and click a button. That's it. Only for Win98SE you'll need to install an extra file after installing the Nikon software before everything works. I have only experience with Win 2000 and XP. There are in my opinion one disadvantage of the 4500. That is battery life. I use the camera only in house for mineral photography. So my only problem are compulsary coffee breakes. You can buy a 2nd battery or a power adaptor. Both are pretty expensive at about $100 1/4 of the camera price!! But as a holliday snapshot camera it works fine as long as you have spare batteries. I used the camera also to zoom in on some frogs in my garden. You'll get a width of view of about 10cm at a distance of 2 meters or so. So no problem there either! Another problem is the small display screen, but that goes for about every digi cam I know. Focussing can be quite impossible. I think it is important to choose a camera that can be either operated by your computer (screen), or can be hooked up to a TV screen. The 4500 can be hooked up with a TV. I have a small color TV as monitor next to my microscope. The image quality on the screen is far worse than the resulting picture, but good enough to judge focussing and composition. Great camera worth every penny. Just invest three day's to figure out how it works. Hope my experience helped some of you, Maurice -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Peter J. Modreski Sent: 25 July 2004 18:48 To: Rockhounds@Lists.Drizzle.Com Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice? Hi, Rockhounds, I wonder if anyone would care to share any advice with me, about buying a digital camera? I'm sure this has been discussed online here before, but everything's always changing rapidly, and I probably don't have any of the old posts anyway. I'll appreciate any comments (or sources of info) any of you have to share. If you'd like to send info that may not be of general interest to the group, please just email it to me directly, pjmodreski@att.net I know there are a (bewildering?) number and kinds of cameras available, with all kinds of features. I'd like one mainly that is good for general-purpose use, taking pictures on field trips, of rock outcrops, occasional use for close-up macro photos of minerals, etc. I do want a camera that has a reasonably good macro capability; many of the camera comparisons I've seen don't always seem to give much info about this, and I don't exactly know what parameter to look for that "quantifies" macro capability. However, this is still not something I'm going to use all the time--i.e., I don't take mineral pictures to post online for sales or auctions, or anything like that. My use of the camera will generally be more that of "a geologist who likes to take rock and field trip pictures", than for close-up photos of minerals, but I want to be able to do that too. For those who care to read, here's what I think I'd like to find, based on the (relatively little) I know so far about digital cameras: >From what I know, a 3 or 4 megapixel resolution is probably all I need. I doubt that I'd ever need to print out large-format hi-res prints. Good macro capability (for minerals, flowers, etc.). Reasonably good zoom. Moderate price (I can probably be satisfied with a camera in or near the $200-$400 price range; I probably don't want to spend any more than that.) Simple to operate (at work, we used to have a Nikon Coolpix (9500?) camera that was totally overwhelming as far as the number of menu options; I could never figure out how to do ANYTHING without carefully reading the manual. I don't need all that jazz-a-ma-tazz, though I am used to using my conventional 35mm SLR (Canon) camera where I always enjoy making my own focus and exposure settings. Simple and convenient to transfer pictures (that Nikon Coolpix again--I NEVER could get it to download pictures (it could only do it through a cable) to my somewhat older home computer (uses Window 98SE). I doubt that I'd use the digital movie capability that some cameras have, very much. I've been advised to get an upgraded memory card rather than the minimum that comes with most cameras; and, that a card reader accessory is very handy. Also to get rechargeable batteries for the camera. A question--do all digital cameras include a built-in flash? I've seen some that have a shoe for a separate flash--I'd just as soon have it built-in. And I'd almost consider getting a weatherproof camera, of which I've seen a few. I think I "destroyed" our Coolpix one day, by taking it with me on a hike and taking pictures on a moderately wet, snowy day--the camera only got a "little" wet, but.... Anyone had any experience with this? I'll appreciate very much, any advice you all have! Any other special comments I haven't thought of, or things to look for, or to avoid? Many thanks, Pete Modreski --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Sun Jul 25 12:04:46 2004 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Sun Jul 25 12:04:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Crescent Mine, Olympic Peninsula, Washington Message-ID: <4104044E.6010702@tenforward.com> Hi Everyone, In visiting Mindat and entering a thread regarding mines, I posted this paper and thought that you may also enjoy the read. All the very best everyone, take care, John The Crescent Mine, Olympic Peninsula, Washington By John Cornish j&gcornish@tenforward.com The Crescent Mine is located in Clallam County, Washington and has the distinction of being Washington's greatest producer of manganese ore. Production for the mine peaked over a several decade long period during the 1920's and extending into the 1950's. The mine is developed on a property consisting of three patented claims and one unpatented claim which are owned currently by several individuals, Clallam County, and the Olympic National Park. The mine is accessed via a small cable-blocked road near the top of Fairholm Hill at the west end of Lake Crescent on Highway 101. This road winds magically through thick wooded second growth forest towards the mine, creating a perfect background for introducing visitors to the rich history of the property. At a point approximately one half mile beyond the highway, the road crosses the Spruce Railroad right of way. Turn left here and continue along the old railroad grade where it's possible that some eagle-eyed adventurer may notice the huge tailing piles of the mine blending subtly into the surrounding greenery on our right. Beyond these and ahead of us still is an overgrown flat where once all the support buildings of the mine had been built. Now all that's left of the camp are the partially decomposed buildings and the rusted remains of old equipment scattered about in the woods. While checking out the ruins and threading our way through the underbrush, the spoil piles suddenly loom and we can wonder at their immense size and at the treasures they once enclosed deep within the earth. Climbing the piles brings us abreast of the hillside and on to a level flat area once busy with mining equipment and now glowing in the soft greens of forest grasses and the whites and purples of wild flowers. Exploring along the edge of the landing reveals the racing scar of a collapsed tunnel ascending the hillside. Broken lengths of air hose and rusty mine rails disappear into the rich dirt and loam of the hill further pin-pointing the location of the buried tunnel. A small hole yawns blackly in the hillside here and from its maw a faint wind blows, rocking the roots and ferns in a waving dance and showing that air still flows through inaccessible galleries and tunnels dark as night. If on another trip you decide to continue your adventures at the Crescent Mine, do so at your own risk knowing that you are advancing towards dangerous ground. This account is not in any fashion suggesting and or granting permission to access this property further. My first visits to the property occurred nearly 10 years ago. While the area has remained relatively unchanged to the casual observer over this period there have been subtle transformations. The most terminal of these was the collapse of a lower haulage tunnel. This watery level could be accessed several years ago if one was willing to descend into it over a then partial collapse of dirt and plant debris which hampered entrance and prevented water from freely draining from the mine. If willing to brave the 3 foot deep waters beyond this barrier one could enter into the darkness proceeding deeper beneath the earth. Old wooden ladders and crib work around the collar of a manway ascended upwards beyond the light of the most powerful flashlights. The wood was water saturated, clammy and unhealthy to the touch with fungus and mold sliming its surface. A finger could be pressed through the rotten stuff with little effort and it was a wonder that they had not collapsed long ago under their own weight. Beyond this there was really nothing else to see and the tunnel ended smartly against a blank wall of stone. The next level above this collapsed years ago and is the one mentioned previously in the text. To the west of this approximately 150 feet can be found a gravel covered swath which cuts the green of the hillside rising out of sight beyond the overhanging branches of the trees. This loose slope leads upwards towards several other levels of the mine. Some of these are partially collapsed and others are open, all are dangerous. This is a very steep ascent and it's only with difficulty that the first adit is reached. Deer have made this entrance home on occasion and one should be prepared to be startled by the thrashing and crashing of an animal frightened into flight at their noisy approach. Cross a dangerous section over to the landing before the entrance of the adit and use this area as a drop point for your gear. If you decide to proceed into the mine make sure that you have TWO WORKING flashlights. Underhand workings plunge unexpectedly into darkness and complete caution should be shown by all, this is not a place for play. These workings in this, and the next level higher on the hill, both are very dangerous and people can die here if foolishly misjudging their surroundings. These underhand workings are of two types, one is a stope from which the manganese ore was wrested and the other is a chute where the ore was dropped from the higher level to the next lower for loading and transport from within the mine to the surface. This chute plummets like a killer down to a rocky floor nearly one hundred feet below. Two other levels were open above these several years ago. One quite near the top of the hill was partially collapsed at this time and is likely completely collapsed as of this writing. Should you climb upwards to these lofty heights consider continuing to the top and into the woods beyond. Here, sitting derelict among the forest growth sits an old large pot-bellied stove. There are no foundations or other signs of habitation at this level and when I visit this place I always wonder at its being here. Likely, back in the past, there had been a tram braking station erected here of which the stove is the only remains. A tram was used at this mine to carry the ore from the upper levels down to the landing far below. The gravel cut we've just climbed is pebbled with the fallen rock spilled from the tram buckets as they bucked and swayed their way down the hillside. Old tram cables and an odd bucket can still be located in the undergrowth with careful searching. Many are the mysteries revealed in this exploration and a hearty appreciation of the toil and hardships endured by the miners decades ago is still impressed upon those visitors finding themselves face to face with Clallam Counties own Crescent Mine. Minerals found from the Crescent Mine include in no particular order Rhodocrosite, Rhodonite, Inesite, Calcite, Hausmannite, Bementite, Neotocite, Cinnabar, Native Copper, Braunite and Hematite. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tjokela at execulink.com Sun Jul 25 12:35:30 2004 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Sun Jul 25 12:35:31 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Crescent Mine, Olympic Peninsula, Washington References: <4104044E.6010702@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <003001c4727e$8b5892a0$6401a8c0@Junior> Hey John, I'm wondering if you've looked into the liability issue surrounding a post like this? I've heard that if somebody reads something like this online, goes there, and breaks their neck, you are probably liable and can get hit with a lawsuit that will more or less ruin your life. Advertising a locality with such exceedingly dangerous underground collecting seems a little risky to me, but I may just be paranoid. The issue is of great interest to me, as I'm working on pages on geology/mineral/fossil/mining localities here in Ontario. Some are highly dangerous, with concealed shafts - and of course all field collecting has certain inherent risks. I've written a disclaimer, but have no idea if it gives me any legal protection. If there are any lawyers or insurance brokers in the house, or anybody with knowledge about liability issues, please feel free to jump in. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John and Gloria Cornish" snip > Old wooden > ladders and crib work around the collar of a manway ascended upwards > beyond the light of the most powerful flashlights. The wood was water > saturated, clammy and unhealthy to the touch with fungus and mold > sliming its surface. A finger could be pressed through the rotten stuff > with little effort and it was a wonder that they had not collapsed long > ago under their own weight. snip From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sun Jul 25 12:39:07 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sun Jul 25 12:39:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice? In-Reply-To: <004b01c47276$64b44660$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: <000001c4727f$107124c0$6dc4c950@maxdata> *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of *Axel Emmermann *Sent: zondag 25 juli 2004 20:37 *To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors *Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice? * *I have a Nikon Coolpix 4500 and a Canon Powershot G1. Both have their pro and cons but neither is perfect... The Nikon is too complex and the Canon not sophisticated enough. It all boils down to "what do you need it for?" This is a great site that I used to decide which one to buy: http://dpreview.com/ I think you should look there first and choose a camera you like. Then try to find people who have it and exchange comments and experiences. >>>>> I second Axel's opinion: at this site you will find ample informatin that might help you. You will also find ratings by users, but take into account that those ratings are somewhat biased : in general very neutral people who don't go deep into the matter do not respond. also pay attention that some opinions, often from unexperienced photographers who don't know how to operate the thing, create real panic and sometimes a very little problem is blown op to a disaster. so some people complained about the presence of Moir?-effects in the images shot with a D70. That problem is really inherent to digital photography in general, and depends much more on the device on which you look at the photos than on the camera. The D70 show perhaps a little bit more moir? than the cheapest cameras, but that is a trade-off for its very good resolution (and I don't only mean resolutions in terms of pixels, but including lens quality etc.). That, in fact is another important statement : the eventual quality of the image has to do in the first place with the quality of the lens(es), in the second place with the pixel-resolution and, last but not least : the quality of the person behind the camera. After 3-4 years of lurking, I finally decided to go for a digital reflex camera (NIKON D70). Expensive (but not more expensive than a very good film camera 10 years ago !), but IMHO worth every euro I spent. You can find some examples on users.skynet.be/rik.dillen/Photos.htm I must admit that I did not do a lot of macrophotography yet (time is lacking, as usual), but the first results are very encouraging. Main advantages of this type of camera over so-called point-and-shoot (PNS) cameras : 1) NO shutter lag (10-20 milliseconds) compared to a PNS (0.5-0.9 second), meaning that with a DSLR camera you can easily shoot a flying bird, whereas with a PNS you will always be "too late". Repetition rate is about 3-5 photos per second. 2) The D70 has "only" 6Mpixels, but each sensor-pixel is 7 ?m wide, which is 3-5 times as large as most cameras. This means far less noise. 3) You choose the lens that is appriopriate for the work. You can imagine that one tiny little lens in a PNS cannot be perfect for macro AND for portrait AND for wide angle AND for telephoto... 4) A classical optical viewfinder gives you a far better sight on the quality of an image while shooting. 5) You can use an external flash (e.g. Nikon SB800) synchronised down to a speed of 1/500 s 6) Instantaneous start-up : you can never be fast enough to miss the first photo because your camera is waking up. It's ready in milliseconds 7) Because the the LCD is only used "post mortem" (after each shot) for verification, the batteries have a very long life. Mostly I shoot easiliy 300-400 photos with one load. 8) shutter opening time down to 1/8000 second ; that 's almost 0.1 millisecond ! Disadvantages 1) Because you change lenses, dust can get into the camera, and if this reaches the sensor you have a (mostly little) problem. A special program lets you open the mirror and mechanical shutter, and you can blow in it with a rubber bulb. I had 3 dust particles until now, and they were always removed just by one blowing action. anyway, that can simply not happen with a PNS. 2) I still travel with a few kg of equipment in my backpack : camera, flash, telelens, macrolens, normal lens, batteries,... You cannot put your DSLR in your pocket. Also the camera as such is heavier than a PNS : about 600 g 3) some find it a disadvantage that you cannot point etc. based on the LCD, but as said, IMO an optical viewfinder is far superior. 4) The price, but the D70 is not that much more expensive than the top level of PNS cameras. I suggest you anyway to look at the website above, and perhaps if your choice is limited to a few camera types, you could join one or more discussion lists (Yohoo e.g.), where you can put your questions and doubts to thousands of others who have been in your case : to make a decision. I got a lot of usefull information on those lists. Wish you good luck. Best regards, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15 B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium Tel. + 32 3 7706007 E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! From kahako at aloha.net Sun Jul 25 13:07:18 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Jul 25 12:40:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] You might be a rockhound if...... In-Reply-To: <29.5d1e6769.2e350960@aol.com> References: <29.5d1e6769.2e350960@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040725095142.027c1400@mail.aloha.net> At 03:02 AM 7/25/2004, you wrote: >Some interesting new (at least new to me) additions to the list. If you'd >like to see the original list created over 8 years ago, go to >http://fgms.home.att.net/rokhound.htm - several of the items on your list >come from that list. >To give a little history, there used to be a Special Interest Group (SIG) of >rock club newsletter editors and one of the editors e-mailed a proposal to >make a list on this subject. Within a couple of days, we had the list at this >website. I've seen quite a few additions to it over the years. It's always >fun to >see what people come up with. Maybe it's time to have another round of new >"You might's." >Dan That list appears on some other sites, some with additions or modifications...I can't find the URL's now, but I think they lifted the list without giving credit to the authors. My favorite is the following: You shouted "Obsidian!" to a theater full of movie-goers while watching The Shawshank Redemption. ...because Bill and I shouted "Obsidian!" simultaneously when we saw that movie, only thankfully we had rented it from Blockbuster and were in the privacy of our home. Here's one Bill and I wrote after many a flight back to Hawaii: When you return from a trip and are paying the overweight charge for your luggage at the airline check-in counter, you are used to answering "Yes!" when the baggage handler says, "What have you got in here, rocks?" Aloha, Kitty From CornDogs at Charter.net Sun Jul 25 13:07:21 2004 From: CornDogs at Charter.net (CornDogs) Date: Sun Jul 25 13:09:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] BOOK REVIEW and Introduction Message-ID: <006701c47283$4773f340$69887644@dit03r92qai5fx> http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/25/books/review/25ZIMMERL.html?pagewanted=1&ei=5043&en=187b658310882977&ex=1091419200&partner=EXCITE HI THERE, Fellow Rockhounds :-) Well, I am not sure if I qualify for such a title yet....but mabye someday, when I have more knowledge and more skill?? Hopefully?!?! My name is Brenda LaCroix and I live in Kearney, Nebraska. I am 35, and have been disabled from a condition called Fibromyalgia for over 7 years. Before that, I was an Accounting Supervisor for a multi-national Financial Company. I moved to Nebraska a bit more than 2 years ago, and will be moving to eastern Texas in 3-9 months. I have 4 dogs, who are also my Kids (hehe!!) My Golden Retriever is my Service Dog who I trained myself - and I also have 3 Boston Terriers, 2 being rescues. I am unable to work, but I do work with Boston Terrier Rescue....and it is the most rewarding thing I have ever done in my entire life. It is where I will devote probably the rest of my life....helping homeless Boston Terriers find new forever homes. OK, that is me in a nutshell :-) Now, on to the ROCKS!!! I started collecting 'rocks', I guess, as a child. My mom started collecting Pewter pieces for me on her travels (she traveled alot for her job until I was 10) and I traveled alot too, since my Dad worked for United Airlines. I started collecting it myself when I was old enough to know what collecting and pewter was :-) All of those pieces are packed away with my parents - Mom refuses to give them to me until I have a house of my own, so that it is guaranteed they don't get lost somehow. I can't wait to see them again someday!!! So, since Pewter is a type of mineral, isn't it?? - I figure, that is where it all started for me. And I was also given a Birthday Doll (china, porceline or something like that, not like a baby doll) every year for my birthday until I was 18 - and each of them always had an emerald in it. So I have been collecting those, too. I had some carved rock-type things that I have always been attracted to - frogs especially!! (Since I wrote this introduction a couple of months ago to another Rockhound group (ok, I am caught...LOL!!) I have found out that Pewter is not a mineral, but I didn't want to take that out anyway) :-) About 5 years ago, I was looking for anytype of 'non-traditional' medical help for my health - and I discovered the metaphysical properties of rocks and crystals - and then I got serious. Really serious for awhile. I would say I had a collection of at least $2000. Carved items, huge spheres, tons of different types of rocks. I couldn't get enough!!! I have moved a couple of different times since then, and have either given away or sold alot of those items.....and only had a big glass plate full of my remaining collection. Rocks are HEAVY to move...LOL!! And being disabled and unable to carry much, they became casualties of my moves :-( HOWEVER - just a couple of months ago, I got back on Ebay, and have started collecting again!!!!!! OH, I am hooked again.....I had forgotten how much fun they are. I want to learn more about everything now....LOL!! But mostly - for right now - what I want to know is how to remove the matrix from Emeralds, Rubies and Sapphires. I figure that is a start, and I have to start somewhere, right?? I want to learn about tumbling (thinking of getting a used one on Ebay?? comments, suggestions appreciated), maybe get into cutting (cabbing, making spheres). I am sure I don't have the hand strength to do alot of stuff, and I would never have the ability to facet - not enough eye sight and my hands could never do anything that fine. But I am sure there are some things I can do, too. I am on Social Security, so I don't have tons of money to spend.....but I can spend some money every month to build up a supply of things I am going to need for basic things like mentioned above. I am going to have to buy some books, I am sure. I LOVE EBAY!! Since I live in a very small town, there isn't alot of options of places to shop here, and I could never find any lapidary tools here. I went to the bookstore last night, and they didn't even have any books on lapidary....LOL!! I would LOVE to hear what all of you EXPERTS think I need, where to buy it, and if I can get it used, etc. BUT - for my first question again....how do I remove the matrix from the emeralds, rubies and sapphires I just got on Ebay?? They are so beautiful, I can't wait to get them cleaned!!! (Again, this was written before, and since I wrote this, I bought myself a Dremel and have been cleaning them with a Tungsten Carbide and Diamond Tipped bits. I LOVE IT!! However, they are no longer 'rough' pieces of course, and I have only used the lesser pieces to play with. I would really like to know about how to remove this 'white stuff' on my rubies!) Now, about the Book Review....I ran across this on my Home Page under "Science News" with the title 'Devil in the Mountain': Making the Rocks Talk...of course that caught my eye :-) It sounds like this might be an interesting book, and a 'place to start' for me to get interested in Geology books. Having no experience on this side of the Rocks I have been collecting for 5+ years - I have recently started researching this side - origin, mining and lapidary. I have found it so fascinating.....and can't get enough information. Unfortunately, with my Fibromyalgia, I am unable to read and retain as much as I would like to. I used to read voraciously throughout my life....often reading a book a week during the summers as a child. Now I use the Internet to do most of my research, as it is easier for me to read than books. ANY AND ALL thoughts, comments or suggestions will be much appreciated :-) I know this email is tremendously long....but I hope you can see my fascination and willingness to learn in my words. I am unsure if this list accepts pictures, but I am going to attach a couple of pictures of a ruby piece I received recently and this is the main one I am wanting to remove the "white stuff" from the face of it. Looking forward to hearing from and learning from you.....you seem like quite the lively group and quite knowledgable, too!! THANK YOU!!! Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and MeghanAssisting Boston TerriersKearney, NECornDogs@Charter.netDedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg image/jpeg --- From CornDogs at Charter.net Sun Jul 25 13:18:25 2004 From: CornDogs at Charter.net (CornDogs) Date: Sun Jul 25 13:18:25 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ANYONE FROM NEBRAKSA or TEXAS???? Message-ID: <007401c47284$8a9cd500$69887644@dit03r92qai5fx> HI THERE, Again :-) I just sent my Introduction and failed to add that I am really looking for someone local to maybe get together with and 'pick your brain' and get some hands on experience??? I live in south central Nebraska in Kearney - which just so happens to be the exact center of the Country (well, the exact center from Boston to San Francisco) I actually live on the alleyway of Highway 30 at mile 1729 and mile 1733 is the center :-) I have always thought that was pretty cool....LOL!! And in the next six months or so, I will (hopefully, God Willing) be moving to San Angelo, Texas, which is in the central/west area. So, if anyone here is anywhere close....and you would be willing to share your experiences with me....email me and maybe we can get together some afternoon :-) Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and MeghanAssisting Boston TerriersKearney, NECornDogs@Charter.netDedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Rocks4u at prodigy.net Sun Jul 25 11:23:26 2004 From: Rocks4u at prodigy.net (Wes Lingerfelt) Date: Sun Jul 25 13:20:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Crescent Mine, Olympic Peninsula, Washington References: <4104044E.6010702@tenforward.com> <003001c4727e$8b5892a0$6401a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <00a601c47274$7a56d3e0$8291fea9@WesMedion1918> Believe it or not, the property owner could be liable for not providing adequate protection from harm, even if the injured party was trespassing. That is the reason my local club decided against publishing a book identifying collecting areas on the Central Coast of California. A lot of them are on private property and even with permission, if a person gets injured on a field trip you can bet on a massive law suit against anyone associated with the event. Just my 2 cents! Cheers! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Jokela Jr." To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] The Crescent Mine, Olympic Peninsula, Washington > Hey John, > > I'm wondering if you've looked into the liability issue surrounding a post > like this? I've heard that if somebody reads something like this online, > goes there, and breaks their neck, you are probably liable and can get hit > with a lawsuit that will more or less ruin your life. Advertising a locality > with such exceedingly dangerous underground collecting seems a little risky > to me, but I may just be paranoid. > > The issue is of great interest to me, as I'm working on pages on > geology/mineral/fossil/mining localities here in Ontario. Some are highly > dangerous, with concealed shafts - and of course all field collecting has > certain inherent risks. I've written a disclaimer, but have no idea if it > gives me any legal protection. > > If there are any lawyers or insurance brokers in the house, or anybody with > knowledge about liability issues, please feel free to jump in. > > Cheers, > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John and Gloria Cornish" > > snip > > Old wooden > > ladders and crib work around the collar of a manway ascended upwards > > beyond the light of the most powerful flashlights. The wood was water > > saturated, clammy and unhealthy to the touch with fungus and mold > > sliming its surface. A finger could be pressed through the rotten stuff > > with little effort and it was a wonder that they had not collapsed long > > ago under their own weight. > snip > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From geenet2 at mchsi.com Sun Jul 25 13:38:19 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Sun Jul 25 13:38:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ANYONE FROM NEBRAKSA or TEXAS???? References: <007401c47284$8a9cd500$69887644@dit03r92qai5fx> Message-ID: <001201c47287$52958aa0$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> Having BOTH, I can help you with Fibro and Dogs, but removing matrix is still a puzzle to me. I'd like to know too. I have a cluster of tourmaline enclosed in matrix I'd like to clean out. And yes, you can do cabbing and lapidary with Fibro... Cabbing is no problem, a light touch is better for the rock, and better for your wrists anyway. Faceting may be a whole nother story. My hands are too quivery for delicate work too. Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "CornDogs" To: Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 3:18 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] ANYONE FROM NEBRAKSA or TEXAS???? HI THERE, Again :-) I just sent my Introduction and failed to add that I am really looking for someone local to maybe get together with and 'pick your brain' and get some hands on experience??? I live in south central Nebraska in Kearney - which just so happens to be the exact center of the Country (well, the exact center from Boston to San Francisco) I actually live on the alleyway of Highway 30 at mile 1729 and mile 1733 is the center :-) I have always thought that was pretty cool....LOL!! And in the next six months or so, I will (hopefully, God Willing) be moving to San Angelo, Texas, which is in the central/west area. So, if anyone here is anywhere close....and you would be willing to share your experiences with me....email me and maybe we can get together some afternoon :-) Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and MeghanAssisting Boston TerriersKearney, NECornDogs@Charter.netDedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at aloha.net Sun Jul 25 14:55:17 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Jul 25 14:28:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Book Review and lava website In-Reply-To: <006701c47283$4773f340$69887644@dit03r92qai5fx> References: <006701c47283$4773f340$69887644@dit03r92qai5fx> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040725112442.027c6d70@mail.aloha.net> Hi Brenda (and List), That book review is interesting; think I'll add the book to my list of ones to get for Bill for Christmas: "Devil in the Mountain" by Simon Lamb. Since you seem to be a curious and enthusiastic sort who might like vicarious adventures, here's a wedsite that gives daily photos and descriptions of the lava at Kilauea Volcano here on the Big Island of Hawaii. Right now the lava is still pouring into the ocean with spectacular results. Many list members have book-marked the site to check each day,as I do. http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/main.html In yesterday's report the observer shows photos of an enthusiastic and stupid visitor who stepped over the warning ribbons that park rangers put up. He marched in the dark out onto a shelf next to the ocean. He came back safely, but four people have died from such foolhardy behavior in the past. Having the rock beneath your feet break off, plunging you into boiling-hot water is not a pleasant way to end an adventure! Aloha, Kitty At 10:07 AM 7/25/2004, you wrote: >http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/25/books/review/25ZIMMERL.html?pagewanted=1&ei=5043&en=187b658310882977&ex=1091419200&partner=EXCITE > >HI THERE, Fellow Rockhounds :-) > >Well, I am not sure if I qualify for such a title yet....but mabye >someday, when I have more knowledge and more skill?? Hopefully?!?! > >My name is Brenda LaCroix and I live in Kearney, Nebraska. I am 35, and >have been disabled from a condition called Fibromyalgia for over 7 >years. Before that, I was an Accounting Supervisor for a multi-national >Financial Company. I moved to Nebraska a bit more than 2 years ago, and >will be moving to eastern Texas in 3-9 months. I have 4 dogs, who are >also my Kids (hehe!!) My Golden Retriever is my Service Dog who I trained >myself - and I also have 3 Boston Terriers, 2 being rescues. I am unable >to work, but I do work with Boston Terrier Rescue....and it is the most >rewarding thing I have ever done in my entire life. It is where I will >devote probably the rest of my life....helping homeless Boston Terriers >find new forever homes. > >OK, that is me in a nutshell :-) > >Now, on to the ROCKS!!! > >I started collecting 'rocks', I guess, as a child. My mom started >collecting Pewter pieces for me on her travels (she traveled alot for her >job until I was 10) and I traveled alot too, since my Dad worked for >United Airlines. I started collecting it myself when I was old enough to >know what collecting and pewter was :-) All of those pieces are packed >away with my parents - Mom refuses to give them to me until I have a house >of my own, so that it is guaranteed they don't get lost somehow. I can't >wait to see them again someday!!! So, since Pewter is a type of mineral, >isn't it?? - I figure, that is where it all started for me. And I was >also given a Birthday Doll (china, porceline or something like that, not >like a baby doll) every year for my birthday until I was 18 - and each of >them always had an emerald in it. So I have been collecting those, >too. I had some carved rock-type things that I have always been attracted >to - frogs especially!! (Since I wrote this introduction a couple of >months ago to another Rockhound group (ok, I am caught...LOL!!) I have >found out that Pewter is not a mineral, but I didn't want to take that out >anyway) :-) > >About 5 years ago, I was looking for anytype of 'non-traditional' medical >help for my health - and I discovered the metaphysical properties of rocks >and crystals - and then I got serious. Really serious for awhile. I >would say I had a collection of at least $2000. Carved items, huge >spheres, tons of different types of rocks. I couldn't get enough!!! I >have moved a couple of different times since then, and have either given >away or sold alot of those items.....and only had a big glass plate full >of my remaining collection. Rocks are HEAVY to move...LOL!! And being >disabled and unable to carry much, they became casualties of my moves :-( > >HOWEVER - just a couple of months ago, I got back on Ebay, and have >started collecting again!!!!!! OH, I am hooked again.....I had forgotten >how much fun they are. > >I want to learn more about everything now....LOL!! > >But mostly - for right now - what I want to know is how to remove the >matrix from Emeralds, Rubies and Sapphires. > >I figure that is a start, and I have to start somewhere, right?? I want >to learn about tumbling (thinking of getting a used one on >Ebay?? comments, suggestions appreciated), maybe get into cutting >(cabbing, making spheres). I am sure I don't have the hand strength to do >alot of stuff, and I would never have the ability to facet - not enough >eye sight and my hands could never do anything that fine. But I am sure >there are some things I can do, too. > >I am on Social Security, so I don't have tons of money to spend.....but I >can spend some money every month to build up a supply of things I am going >to need for basic things like mentioned above. I am going to have to buy >some books, I am sure. I LOVE EBAY!! Since I live in a very small town, >there isn't alot of options of places to shop here, and I could never find >any lapidary tools here. I went to the bookstore last night, and they >didn't even have any books on lapidary....LOL!! I would LOVE to hear what >all of you EXPERTS think I need, where to buy it, and if I can get it >used, etc. > >BUT - for my first question again....how do I remove the matrix from the >emeralds, rubies and sapphires I just got on Ebay?? They are so >beautiful, I can't wait to get them cleaned!!! (Again, this was written >before, and since I wrote this, I bought myself a Dremel and have been >cleaning them with a Tungsten Carbide and Diamond Tipped bits. I LOVE >IT!! However, they are no longer 'rough' pieces of course, and I have >only used the lesser pieces to play with. I would really like to know >about how to remove this 'white stuff' on my rubies!) > >Now, about the Book Review....I ran across this on my Home Page under >"Science News" with the title 'Devil in the Mountain': Making the Rocks >Talk...of course that caught my eye :-) It sounds like this might be an >interesting book, and a 'place to start' for me to get interested in >Geology books. Having no experience on this side of the Rocks I have been >collecting for 5+ years - I have recently started researching this side - >origin, mining and lapidary. I have found it so fascinating.....and can't >get enough information. Unfortunately, with my Fibromyalgia, I am unable >to read and retain as much as I would like to. I used to read voraciously >throughout my life....often reading a book a week during the summers as a >child. Now I use the Internet to do most of my research, as it is easier >for me to read than books. > >ANY AND ALL thoughts, comments or suggestions will be much >appreciated :-) I know this email is tremendously long....but I hope you >can see my fascination and willingness to learn in my words. I am unsure >if this list accepts pictures, but I am going to attach a couple of >pictures of a ruby piece I received recently and this is the main one I am >wanting to remove the "white stuff" from the face of it. > >Looking forward to hearing from and learning from you.....you seem like >quite the lively group and quite knowledgable, too!! > >THANK YOU!!! >Brenda >Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and MeghanAssisting Boston TerriersKearney, >NECornDogs@Charter.netDedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and >abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue >Dog, YOU are the World! > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/mixed > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > image/jpeg > image/jpeg >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Docia1154 at aol.com Sun Jul 25 14:34:02 2004 From: Docia1154 at aol.com (Docia1154@aol.com) Date: Sun Jul 25 14:34:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Book Review and lava website Message-ID: <1c3.1c1e875f.2e35814a@aol.com> In a message dated 7/25/2004 4:29:59 PM Central Daylight Time, kahako@aloha.net writes: >Well, I am not sure if I qualify for such a title yet....but mabye >someday, when I have more knowledge and more skill?? Hopefully?!?! it takes knowledge and skill to qualify for a rockhound? eikes! that would leave me out, lol, I just like being out at those touristy sites along the highways (roadcuts) I think you more than qualify, while there are some major brains on this list there are lots of us who just like to go collecting rocks and minerals and enjoy tumbling polishing etc. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kqhayes at chartermi.net Sun Jul 25 15:15:22 2004 From: kqhayes at chartermi.net (Keith Q Hayes) Date: Sun Jul 25 15:15:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] BOOK REVIEW and Introduction In-Reply-To: <006701c47283$4773f340$69887644@dit03r92qai5fx> Message-ID: What you really need to clean up specimens like emeralds, rubies in matrix is an air abrasive set up. This means a safety hood, air abrasive gun, and grits that are softer than crystal, but harder than the matrix. Basically, you are sandblasting the stuff off that you do not want. If you do a google search, you can find the tools and the safety set ups. Good luck. Best Regards, Keith Hayes www.kqminerals.com kqhayes@chartermi.net 3705 Fuller Drive Midland, MI 48642 -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of CornDogs Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 4:07 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] BOOK REVIEW and Introduction http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/25/books/review/25ZIMMERL.html?pagewanted=1&e i=5043&en=187b658310882977&ex=1091419200&partner=EXCITE HI THERE, Fellow Rockhounds :-) Well, I am not sure if I qualify for such a title yet....but mabye someday, when I have more knowledge and more skill?? Hopefully?!?! My name is Brenda LaCroix and I live in Kearney, Nebraska. I am 35, and have been disabled from a condition called Fibromyalgia for over 7 years. Before that, I was an Accounting Supervisor for a multi-national Financial Company. I moved to Nebraska a bit more than 2 years ago, and will be moving to eastern Texas in 3-9 months. I have 4 dogs, who are also my Kids (hehe!!) My Golden Retriever is my Service Dog who I trained myself - and I also have 3 Boston Terriers, 2 being rescues. I am unable to work, but I do work with Boston Terrier Rescue....and it is the most rewarding thing I have ever done in my entire life. It is where I will devote probably the rest of my life....helping homeless Boston Terriers find new forever homes. OK, that is me in a nutshell :-) Now, on to the ROCKS!!! I started collecting 'rocks', I guess, as a child. My mom started collecting Pewter pieces for me on her travels (she traveled alot for her job until I was 10) and I traveled alot too, since my Dad worked for United Airlines. I started collecting it myself when I was old enough to know what collecting and pewter was :-) All of those pieces are packed away with my parents - Mom refuses to give them to me until I have a house of my own, so that it is guaranteed they don't get lost somehow. I can't wait to see them again someday!!! So, since Pewter is a type of mineral, isn't it?? - I figure, that is where it all started for me. And I was also given a Birthday Doll (china, porceline or something like that, not like a baby doll) every year for my birthday until I was 18 - and each of them always had an emerald in it. So I have been collecting those, too. I had some carved rock-type things that I have always been attracted to - frogs especially!! (Since I wrote this introduction a couple of months ago to another Rockhound group (ok, I am caught...LOL!!) I have found out that Pewter is not a mineral, but I didn't want to take that out anyway) :-) About 5 years ago, I was looking for anytype of 'non-traditional' medical help for my health - and I discovered the metaphysical properties of rocks and crystals - and then I got serious. Really serious for awhile. I would say I had a collection of at least $2000. Carved items, huge spheres, tons of different types of rocks. I couldn't get enough!!! I have moved a couple of different times since then, and have either given away or sold alot of those items.....and only had a big glass plate full of my remaining collection. Rocks are HEAVY to move...LOL!! And being disabled and unable to carry much, they became casualties of my moves :-( HOWEVER - just a couple of months ago, I got back on Ebay, and have started collecting again!!!!!! OH, I am hooked again.....I had forgotten how much fun they are. I want to learn more about everything now....LOL!! But mostly - for right now - what I want to know is how to remove the matrix from Emeralds, Rubies and Sapphires. I figure that is a start, and I have to start somewhere, right?? I want to learn about tumbling (thinking of getting a used one on Ebay?? comments, suggestions appreciated), maybe get into cutting (cabbing, making spheres). I am sure I don't have the hand strength to do alot of stuff, and I would never have the ability to facet - not enough eye sight and my hands could never do anything that fine. But I am sure there are some things I can do, too. I am on Social Security, so I don't have tons of money to spend.....but I can spend some money every month to build up a supply of things I am going to need for basic things like mentioned above. I am going to have to buy some books, I am sure. I LOVE EBAY!! Since I live in a very small town, there isn't alot of options of places to shop here, and I could never find any lapidary tools here. I went to the bookstore last night, and they didn't even have any books on lapidary....LOL!! I would LOVE to hear what all of you EXPERTS think I need, where to buy it, and if I can get it used, etc. BUT - for my first question again....how do I remove the matrix from the emeralds, rubies and sapphires I just got on Ebay?? They are so beautiful, I can't wait to get them cleaned!!! (Again, this was written before, and since I wrote this, I bought myself a Dremel and have been cleaning them with a Tungsten Carbide and Diamond Tipped bits. I LOVE IT!! However, they are no longer 'rough' pieces of course, and I have only used the lesser pieces to play with. I would really like to know about how to remove this 'white stuff' on my rubies!) Now, about the Book Review....I ran across this on my Home Page under "Science News" with the title 'Devil in the Mountain': Making the Rocks Talk...of course that caught my eye :-) It sounds like this might be an interesting book, and a 'place to start' for me to get interested in Geology books. Having no experience on this side of the Rocks I have been collecting for 5+ years - I have recently started researching this side - origin, mining and lapidary. I have found it so fascinating.....and can't get enough information. Unfortunately, with my Fibromyalgia, I am unable to read and retain as much as I would like to. I used to read voraciously throughout my life....often reading a book a week during the summers as a child. Now I use the Internet to do most of my research, as it is easier for me to read than books. ANY AND ALL thoughts, comments or suggestions will be much appreciated :-) I know this email is tremendously long....but I hope you can see my fascination and willingness to learn in my words. I am unsure if this list accepts pictures, but I am going to attach a couple of pictures of a ruby piece I received recently and this is the main one I am wanting to remove the "white stuff" from the face of it. Looking forward to hearing from and learning from you.....you seem like quite the lively group and quite knowledgable, too!! THANK YOU!!! Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and MeghanAssisting Boston TerriersKearney, NECornDogs@Charter.netDedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg image/jpeg --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sun Jul 25 15:51:30 2004 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sun Jul 25 15:51:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) and digital camera In-Reply-To: <41031701.74C1@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Hi all, To finish the siderazot thread below is a link to my 'most possible' siderazot. It looks different to iridiscent lava, because the surrounding lava is not iridiscent at all. http://www.mindat.org/picshow.php?id=19222 And for the digital photo question. This picture was taken with a Coolpix 4500 at the standard macro mode. It is merely a snapshot. No tripod or fixture, just out of my hand while I badly need to go to sleep at this hour :-)) The picture is not enhanced, only reduced in size. Camera picture quality was set 'fine' (1600x1200), focal length 16.2mm, 1/52.7 sec, f/3.5, autofocus on and no digital zoom. cheers, Maurice PS rightnow mindat seems a bit crowded and slow..... From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Sun Jul 25 16:21:26 2004 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Sun Jul 25 16:21:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] You might be a rockhound if...... Message-ID: Bobs Rock shop has a load of these. He ran a contest years ago. Great fun. http://www.rockhounds.com/rockshop/meander.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Sun Jul 25 16:21:26 2004 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Sun Jul 25 16:21:33 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] BOOK REVIEW and Introduction Message-ID: I agree with Keith however the investment for such a setup is not trivial. You will need a compressor, blast cabinet, air filter and eductor to pull air away from you, and the air abrasive machine. There are some inexpensive ones that don't work too well but if you've gone this far it is worth going the extra few yards for a good second hand air abrasive. Expect to pay over $1400 or more for the whole setup. then yu have to buy the grits, Also using one takes experience and you can ruin a specimen if you don't know what you are doing. So if you only have an occasional specimen to clean your best bet is to find a friend who has a unit and knows how to use it and give him a nice specimen for his trouble. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE In a message dated 7/25/2004 6:24:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, kqhayes@chartermi.net writes: What you really need to clean up specimens like emeralds, rubies in matrix is an air abrasive set up. This means a safety hood, air abrasive gun, and grits that are softer than crystal, but harder than the matrix. Basically, you are sandblasting the stuff off that you do not want. If you do a google search, you can find the tools and the safety set ups. Good luck. Best Regards, Keith Hayes www.kqminerals.com kqhayes@chartermi.net 3705 Fuller Drive Midland, MI 48642 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Sun Jul 25 16:21:27 2004 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Sun Jul 25 16:21:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] You might be a rockhound if...... Message-ID: this actually happened to me. I had ordered a new box spring and matress and in order to get it upstairs the moving men had to move a specimen cabinet. When I responded "yes" his response was "No really, what in there?" Gene Hartstein Newark, DE In a message dated 7/25/2004 9:02:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, Lapidry@aol.com writes: 18. You have ever had to respond "yes" to the question, "What have you got in here, rocks?" --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sun Jul 25 16:41:38 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sun Jul 25 16:37:42 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) References: Message-ID: <008f01c472a0$f0712fe0$06a4490c@pete> Maurice, your photo is certainly of a very distinctive-looking material, and it looks like more than just an ultra-thin coating; perhaps it is the real McCoy, after all. I had thought to some time look up the orginal description(s) of this mineral (as given in Dana), but I see that they are from some fairly obscure old publications; Annalen der Physik 1876, and I Metalli (I still haven't figured out what the heck publicatin that is), 1883. I may make some effort to see if they are in the USGS library, just out of curiousity. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice de Graaf" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 4:51 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) and digital camera > Hi all, > > To finish the siderazot thread below is a link to my 'most possible' > siderazot. It looks different to iridiscent lava, because the surrounding > lava is not iridiscent at all. > > http://www.mindat.org/picshow.php?id=19222 > > And for the digital photo question. This picture was taken with a Coolpix > 4500 at the standard macro mode. It is merely a snapshot. No tripod or > fixture, just out of my hand while I badly need to go to sleep at this hour > :-)) The picture is not enhanced, only reduced in size. Camera picture > quality was set 'fine' (1600x1200), focal length 16.2mm, 1/52.7 sec, f/3.5, > autofocus on and no digital zoom. > > cheers, > Maurice > > PS rightnow mindat seems a bit crowded and slow..... > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From corndogs at charter.net Sun Jul 25 18:02:14 2004 From: corndogs at charter.net (CornDogs) Date: Sun Jul 25 18:02:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ROCKS Message-ID: <200407260102.i6Q12EDK006189@bubbleator.drizzle.com> ROCKS HI THERE!! I read the message from the person who said I needed to sand blast the emeralds and rubies in order to remove the matrix. I don't think that would be appropriate for my particular piece...LOL!! It is less than the size of a quarter :-) But, I could be wrong - I am just envisioning big huge machinery to use on this itty-bitty piece. Here are some pictures of my rubies, emeralds and sapphires and some of my other crystal pieces, too. You can see the Ruby piece I am referring to in alot of the pictures - Rubies 25 is one of the best individual pics of it, and you can see it next to a quarter in others. I know there are chemical things I can try - Muriactic Acid being the one that sounds like it will be the most beneficial. But I want to get alot of EXPERT OPINIONS before I do something like that!! Please let me know what you think once you see the pictures of the particular piece I am talking about. THANK YOU!! Bren http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/corndogs1969/album?.tok=phV8veBB_.SPBmSs&.dir=/783e&.src=ph --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) multipart/related text/html image/jpeg --- From afox at drizzle.com Sun Jul 25 18:22:12 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Sun Jul 25 18:22:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Sunday Updates Message-ID: 1) I have decided, for the time being, not to moderate the Rockhounds list. I recieved a number of messages asking me not to take this step, so I'll defer to the majority. Means slightly less work for me! 2) Filtering. I've looked into GNU Mailman a little bit more, and, although it's possible to bounce messages based on attachments, it's a PITA. Most of the annoying ones come through as MIME type text/html, which are currently automagically turned to text and send through, provided they meet membership requirements. Choosing to hold text/html messages without stripping them first is tantamount to moderation, as a major percentage of the list mail comes that way first, anyway. So, for right now, what I'll do is add spamsign manually to the Mailman filters using regular expressions. This means that one message may get through, but, after that, no more should make it. Until GNU Mailman (and more ISPs) start taking advantage of better mail systems than SMTP (please, just standardize on SPF please, and not SenderID...), the address spoofing will continue to be an annoyance. We 'defang' most of these emails; you won't get a virus from them, but they will continue to be an annoyance. My apologies, but, short of rewriting Mailman myself (not that much of a Python expert yet), we're limited to its functionality, extended somewhat through custom regular expressions. If you know regexps, and have written any that compare multiple header lines (i.e. comparing the FROM field to some of the message paths (RECIEVED)), and are willing to share code, let me know. Sorry for the techie nature of the post; thought y'all might like to be kept updated. Talk amongst yourselves. Obligatory Rockhounds Post -------------------------- On my site this week, we finally started to excavate into serious bedrock. A mixture of Renton and Blakely Formations; intra- and pre-glacial lacustrine and fluvial sediments, ranging from sandstone to siltstone. Boring by itself, but some of the fracture infillings are quite interesting. They don't just look like the traditional iron or manganese oxides. Some fibrous slickensides/growth fibers; not sure of the mineralogy. Alteration rinds range in color from blue-green (!) to reddish-orange (iron?) to purplish-black (Manganese?). Kinda cool. I keep hoping to find more datable organic material; we've already sampled what looked to be a small kettle lake that may represent a pre-Vashon stade glaciation (looks like it has been covered by outwash sands before it could be plucked clean). The closest I can get to real geology on a construction site (sigh). To make things worse, we no longer get quarry rock from the Cadman Minerals Monroe quarry (calcite, aragonite, all sorts of nice little vug). All our rockery rock and quarry spall comes from Vancouver, BC, by barge, and is a silicified volcanoclastic rock. How boring. Obligatory Off-Topic Post ------------------------ Great Big Sea rocks. Especially live. Cheers! Aaron -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GS d- s:+ a- C++ UL+++$ P+>$ L++ E---- W+>$ N+ o K--? w O- !M- V-- PS+ PE+ Y+ PGP+ t-- 5 X R++ tv-- b+++ DI++ D++ G+ e++ h-- r-- y+ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From Paintricks at aol.com Sun Jul 25 19:27:03 2004 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Sun Jul 25 19:27:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] You might be a rockhound if...... Message-ID: <12d.46a58f63.2e35c5f7@aol.com> U stub your toe on the same rock in the same place as well as your wifes and I still won't move it because I like it so much where it is. End of the steps. kevin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Sun Jul 25 19:32:34 2004 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Sun Jul 25 19:32:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ROCKS Message-ID: <96.108d4bb3.2e35c742@aol.com> the orfices on my micro air abrasive range from 10 to 45 thousandths of an inch in diameter. It shoots a stream of abrasive (from baking soda to alumina in hardness depending on the job) that averages about a 50 micron particle size. I can do tiny things with this unit. It is not a big "sandblaster" but the principle is the same. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE In a message dated 7/25/2004 9:05:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, corndogs@charter.net writes: ROCKS HI THERE!! I read the message from the person who said I needed to sand blast the emeralds and rubies in order to remove the matrix. I don't think that would be appropriate for my particular piece...LOL!! It is less than the size of a quarter :-) But, I could be wrong - I am just envisioning big huge machinery to use on this itty-bitty piece. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Lapidry at aol.com Sun Jul 25 20:14:07 2004 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Sun Jul 25 20:14:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] You might be a rockhound if...... Message-ID: <193.2c2d5bc3.2e35d0ff@aol.com> How about: You might be a rockhound if you see a fireworks display and automatically think of one of them as being a really nice dendrite, too bad it isn't in a rock. Dan In a message dated 7/25/2004 2:22:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, axel.emmermann@pandora.be writes: Rik wrote > Splendid ! You're a rockhound if you think Rik really meant "splendite".... Cheers Axel (frivolous but enjoyable, I hope ;-)))) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From geenet2 at mchsi.com Sun Jul 25 21:28:13 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Sun Jul 25 21:28:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ROCKS References: <200407260102.i6Q12EDK006189@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <004601c472c8$f7246640$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> Did you buy one of those "unsearched bags of sapphires" from eBay? I did and didn't get anything worth looking at. The big ruby crystal looks nice, tho Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "CornDogs" To: Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 8:02 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] ROCKS > ROCKS > HI THERE!! > > I read the message from the person who said I needed to sand blast the emeralds and rubies in order to remove the matrix. I don't think that would be appropriate for my particular piece...LOL!! It is less than the size of a quarter :-) But, I could be wrong - I am just envisioning big huge machinery to use on this itty-bitty piece. > > Here are some pictures of my rubies, emeralds and sapphires and some of my other crystal pieces, too. > > You can see the Ruby piece I am referring to in alot of the pictures - Rubies 25 is one of the best individual pics of it, and you can see it next to a quarter in others. > > I know there are chemical things I can try - Muriactic Acid being the one that sounds like it will be the most beneficial. But I want to get alot of EXPERT OPINIONS before I do something like that!! > > Please let me know what you think once you see the pictures of the particular piece I am talking about. THANK YOU!! > Bren > > http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/corndogs1969/album?.tok=phV8veBB_.SPBmSs&.dir=/783e&.src=ph > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > multipart/related > text/html > image/jpeg > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From cjkuo at verizon.net Sun Jul 25 23:06:21 2004 From: cjkuo at verizon.net (Jimmy Kuo) Date: Sun Jul 25 23:07:32 2004 Subject: Vancouver, was: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Sunday Updates References: Message-ID: <053901c472d6$ae65c710$0b02a8c0@eur.nai.com> > All our rockery rock and quarry spall comes from Vancouver, BC, by barge, > and is a silicified volcanoclastic rock. How boring. Only silicified volcano rock? :-( There's copper and gold from Vancouver. So, there's related cupric minerals. You don't get any of those? Jimmy PS. Thanks for all your work. PPS. I get to go to Sun Peaks for Christmas once every few years. Anything interesting up there (under all that snow)? From italianminerals at libero.it Mon Jul 26 10:53:44 2004 From: italianminerals at libero.it (ItalianMinerals) Date: Mon Jul 26 01:53:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD - Ebay update Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.0.20040726105327.0257d908@popmail.libero.it> Hi there ! new items are now on Ebay ! low starting bids, as usual, for showy rocks ! Goto: http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=italianminerals&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=50 If you have time visit us at: www.italianminerals.com www.ItalianMinerals.com ===================== Visit us at: http://www.ItalianMinerals.com for quality minerals !! Check our auctions on Ebay at: http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=italianminerals ===================== From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jul 26 03:18:17 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jul 26 03:18:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Siderazot, or not? References: Message-ID: <003a01c472f9$e2050720$6402a8c0@axel> OK, seriously, I' ve been thinking... (ouch) The siderazote thread was a great outlet for some great technical explanations. But do you need it to explain the iridescence of the cooled lava? The following thought-experiment was inspired by looking at Venetian glass. Imagine a flow of very liquid lava like the kind we see on Hawaii. While it flows, it cools on the surface forming a thin skin of solidified lava. This skin is not strong and rigid enough to withstand the friction of the flow below, so it wrinkles and folds and breaks into very thin fragments. Imagine those fragments being mixed with the flow again. The top and sides of the flow are coldest and already on the verge of solidifying. There, the splinters of "skin" may not melt again so that we have two phases in the parts of the lavaflow that are solidifying. As the flow gets more and more syrupy, I can imagine that the fragments of "skin" in it break up further and become spatially polarized, just like domino tiles would in a flow of molasses. Ultimately, you would get a glassy substance with highly parallel inclusions of the same but oxidized material. If these inclusions are packed together close enough, you might very well see the same iridescence as described by Kitty. Why then blue and no other colors? Hmm, blue light is scattered more easily than the other colors? Maybe just a silly thought but a close look with a strong microscope (SEM?) might reveal the existence of such inclusions. Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice de Graaf" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 12:51 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) and digital camera > Hi all, > > To finish the siderazot thread below is a link to my 'most possible' > siderazot. It looks different to iridiscent lava, because the surrounding > lava is not iridiscent at all. > > http://www.mindat.org/picshow.php?id=19222 > > And for the digital photo question. This picture was taken with a Coolpix > 4500 at the standard macro mode. It is merely a snapshot. No tripod or > fixture, just out of my hand while I badly need to go to sleep at this hour > :-)) The picture is not enhanced, only reduced in size. Camera picture > quality was set 'fine' (1600x1200), focal length 16.2mm, 1/52.7 sec, f/3.5, > autofocus on and no digital zoom. > > cheers, > Maurice > > PS rightnow mindat seems a bit crowded and slow..... > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From jabac at hal-pc.org Mon Jul 26 04:04:08 2004 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Mon Jul 26 03:58:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Siderazot, or not? In-Reply-To: <003a01c472f9$e2050720$6402a8c0@axel> References: <003a01c472f9$e2050720$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: <1090839848.2747.9.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 05:18, Axel Emmermann wrote: > OK, seriously, I' ve been thinking... (ouch) > The siderazote thread was a great outlet for some great technical > explanations. > But do you need it to explain the iridescence of the cooled lava? > The following thought-experiment was inspired by looking at Venetian glass. > > Imagine a flow of very liquid lava like the kind we see on Hawaii. > While it flows, it cools on the surface forming a thin skin of solidified > lava. This skin is not strong and rigid enough to withstand the friction of > the flow below, so it wrinkles and folds and breaks into very thin > fragments. > Imagine those fragments being mixed with the flow again. The top and sides > of the flow are coldest and already on the verge of solidifying. There, the > splinters of "skin" may not melt again so that we have two phases in the > parts of the lavaflow that are solidifying. > As the flow gets more and more syrupy, I can imagine that the fragments of > "skin" in it break up further and become spatially polarized, just like > domino tiles would in a flow of molasses. > Ultimately, you would get a glassy substance with highly parallel inclusions > of the same but oxidized material. If these inclusions are packed together > close enough, you might very well see the same iridescence as described by > Kitty. > Why then blue and no other colors? > Hmm, blue light is scattered more easily than the other colors? > > Maybe just a silly thought but a close look with a strong microscope (SEM?) > might reveal the existence of such inclusions. > > Cheers > > Axel > Good thought. If you want to know about iridescence, ask a glass-blower. Suppose one takes a small piece of this lava with blue iridescence (not siderazot) and heats it red hot in a blowtorch, and then lets it cool naturally. What color remains? I suspect it would be something like a rust-red. Perhaps the blue is akin to the bluing one sees on steel when heated? john From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jul 26 04:32:29 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jul 26 04:32:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Siderazot, or not? References: <003a01c472f9$e2050720$6402a8c0@axel> <1090839848.2747.9.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <005301c47304$3f3fdd70$6402a8c0@axel> Jon wrote > Perhaps the blue is akin to the bluing one sees on steel when > heated? That might be siderazot ;-))))) Rather akin to the color of the sky. Also blue because of scattering of blue light while red and other colors go through more easily... Axel From afox at drizzle.com Mon Jul 26 05:47:15 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Mon Jul 26 05:47:16 2004 Subject: Vancouver, was: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Sunday Updates In-Reply-To: <053901c472d6$ae65c710$0b02a8c0@eur.nai.com> Message-ID: > Only silicified volcano rock? :-( > > There's copper and gold from Vancouver. So, there's related cupric > minerals. You don't get any of those? Well, you can. There's good stuff throughout the breccia pipes of the Fifes Peak Formation here in western WA. I helped do a quarry stability analysis for a Wherehauser (sp) division that wanted to leach gold and silver from the stuff. However, the concentrations of the stuff were so small that the environmental hassles made it noneconomic. Plus, this stuff from BC isn't the good stuff. The good stuff doesn't normally make good rockery rock. Rockhounds pick it apart too easily, and then my rockeries (and the buildings on top of them) fall down. :-) a. -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox Highway Patrolman: "Sir, do you know how fast you were going?" Heisenberg: "No, but I know EXACTLY where I was!" From morningstar at att.net Mon Jul 26 06:02:16 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Mon Jul 26 06:02:19 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Siderazot, or not? Message-ID: <072620041302.24066.410500D7000F0AB800005E0221603759649D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> > > Maybe just a silly thought but a close look with a strong microscope (SEM?) > > might reveal the existence of such inclusions. Indeed! Not a silly thought, but perhaps a slightly different choice of tool is in order--this is a job for the backscatter electron imaging feature included with most SEMs. The energy used to form the backscatter image emanates from deeper within the specimen, and while an SEM image itself is the equivalent of reading Braille-- mapping surface textures only, but not density or composition--backscatter electrons are dependent on density of the substance, and can reveal features just below the surface. The success of this effort, of course, would depend upon whether these inclusions had a slightly different composition, or a least a different structure that affected their overall density and made them stand out in backscatter. I've never explored that possibility in depth: a good way to test it would be to analye a mixture of pyrite and marcasite with backscatter and see if they appear differently in the image. Don From william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu Mon Jul 26 06:18:01 2004 From: william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu (William Cordua) Date: Mon Jul 26 06:18:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] You might be a rockhound if...... In-Reply-To: <003101c47274$3d750af0$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: G'day, Here a few that were made up by my students and myself during a long field trip. You might be a rock hound if: you want to name your dog, cat or child after a mineral. your favorite rock group doesn't play any instruments. you can't even go to the Dairy Queen without thinking of augen. you can tell what a rock is by its taste and texture on your tongue. your favorite rock is no longer granite, it's alkali feldspar syenite. you use your oven for metamorphic rock experiments. you discover a great outcrop and shout "Holy Schist"! the gift you bring home to your cat after a trip is a quartz crystal. you realize your acid isn't illegal in all states. you are a hard rocker even if you listen to classical music. you start spelling flour "fluor". Best wishes , Dr. Bill Cordua From shm at tapnet.net Mon Jul 26 06:54:18 2004 From: shm at tapnet.net (SHM) Date: Mon Jul 26 06:55:19 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] You might be a rockhound if...... In-Reply-To: <193.2c2d5bc3.2e35d0ff@aol.com> Message-ID: <000001c47318$2becb900$c8e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Following up on that, some of us, when watching fireworks, automatically think of identifying minerals by means of flame tests (part of what used to be called "pyrognostics"). How many of you instantly associate red fireworks with strontium, bluish green with copper, white with magnesium or aluminum, etc.? For those unfamiliar with this older-than-the-hills technique, it's basically quite simple, and a valuable bit of "kitchen chemistry". You'll need a short length of platinum or nichrome wire (stainless steel will do in a pinch; even a cheap dissecting needle will serve), some hydrochloric (muriatic) acid, and an alcohol lamp, Bunsen burner, oxyacetylene torch, anything to give you a reasonably hot flame. Powder a bit of the mineral, dip the tip of the wire in acid, touch the wire to the mineral powder so some of it adheres to the wire, and introduce the powder into the flame. Instant fireworks. Quite pretty, and an easy way to detect the presence of perhaps a dozen different metals in minerals. There's a bit more to it than this, but you get the basic idea . . . Cheers- Earl -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Lapidry@aol.com Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 11:14 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] You might be a rockhound if...... How about: You might be a rockhound if you see a fireworks display and automatically think of one of them as being a really nice dendrite, too bad it isn't in a rock. Dan From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Mon Jul 26 07:33:02 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Mon Jul 26 07:30:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200407261430.i6QEU4I7013549@bubbleator.drizzle.com> No kidding! I've got a Nikon 4300 and that is my BIGGEST complaint about it. Luckily, I always (well, almost always) keep a spare battery in the case so I can slip it in. That brings up two points: always get at least one spare battery, and keep it topped off. Secondly, pick up an AC power adapter for the camera. When I'm doing a bunch of shots it really saves a lot of hassle time to keep the camera up and running. GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Berj N. Ensanian > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 11:56 AM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice? > > > > Pete > > There are some seemingly minor details with digital cameras > that can loom large in actual use. In particular you will not > regret choosing a model which has a very positive on/off > switch detent. .... From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Mon Jul 26 07:40:12 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Mon Jul 26 07:37:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] You might be a rockhound if...... In-Reply-To: <12d.46a58f63.2e35c5f7@aol.com> Message-ID: <200407261437.i6QEbAI7015449@bubbleator.drizzle.com> You might be a rockhound if you ask you sweetie to "talk dirty" to you, and what you REALLY want to do is discuss paleosoils and post-glacial loess deposits. GcB From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jul 26 09:31:08 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jul 26 09:31:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Siderazot, or not? References: <072620041302.24066.410500D7000F0AB800005E0221603759649D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: <005f01c4732d$f9193d80$6402a8c0@axel> Hi Don, > Indeed! Not a silly thought, I was just kidding... having silly thoughts is against my nature (ROFL) > but perhaps a slightly different choice of tool is in order--this is a job > for the backscatter electron imaging feature included with most SEMs. The energy used to form the backscatter > image emanates from deeper within the specimen, and while an SEM image itself is the equivalent of reading Braille-- > mapping surface textures only, but not density or composition--backscatter electrons are dependent on density of the > substance, and can reveal features just below the surface. The success of this effort, of course, would depend upon > whether these inclusions had a slightly different composition, I was thinking like this: the skin is oxidized , the melt is not or less. I would gues that vitification or crystallisation occurs at a different pace in the oxidized phase. There should also be a "halo" around the inclusion of partially re-melted or solved stuff. Axel From lanny at lrream.com Mon Jul 26 09:34:28 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Mon Jul 26 09:34:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice? In-Reply-To: <200407261430.i6QEU4I7013549@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200407261430.i6QEU4I7013549@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: Turning the camera on while putting it in its case can be a problem, but on my Nikon 995 it is easily solved by either of two methods. I learned to put my finger on the on/off dial as I insert it in a case. The other method is to set the automatic off control to automatically turn it off (this can be set to 30 sec., 1 min., 5 min. or 30 min). Regards, Lanny On Jul 26, 2004, at 7:33 AM, Gary Brown wrote: > No kidding! I've got a Nikon 4300 and that is my BIGGEST complaint > about > it. Luckily, I always (well, almost always) keep a spare battery in > the > case so I can slip it in. That brings up two points: always get at > least > one spare battery, and keep it topped off. Secondly, pick up an AC > power > adapter for the camera. When I'm doing a bunch of shots it really > saves a > lot of hassle time to keep the camera up and running. > > GcB > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of >> Berj N. Ensanian >> Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 11:56 AM >> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice? >> >> >> >> Pete >> >> There are some seemingly minor details with digital cameras >> that can loom large in actual use. In particular you will not >> regret choosing a model which has a very positive on/off >> switch detent. .... > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jul 26 09:36:02 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jul 26 09:36:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] You might be a rockhound if...... References: Message-ID: <006701c4732e$a7cd0e60$6402a8c0@axel> Hi Bill, > you discover a great outcrop and shout "Holy Schist"! For those opposed to rude language that would be "Holy Schoost"? Axel From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Mon Jul 26 09:46:13 2004 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Mon Jul 26 09:45:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4E63F55D-DF23-11D8-947E-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Hi everyone, One thing that troubles me about all the digital cameras I have used so far is the absence of a cable-release for the shutter. Even if the camera is up on a tripod, hitting that little shutter release button with the index finger must cause unnecessary vibration. Does anyone know whether this is a valid concern? Or are digital camera shutter speeds so fast that it makes no difference? Cheers Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada From Gslrocks at aol.com Mon Jul 26 09:47:29 2004 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Mon Jul 26 09:47:36 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice? Message-ID: <8a.108b1028.2e368fa1@aol.com> there is a delay so there is not any vibration... well at least on my sosny F505V's and F717 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny at lrream.com Mon Jul 26 09:55:45 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Mon Jul 26 09:55:15 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice? In-Reply-To: <004901c47267$2b259de0$06a4490c@pete> References: <004901c47267$2b259de0$06a4490c@pete> Message-ID: Hi Pete, The selection of cameras with good macro ability is probably rather small in a price range below $400, but there are some Canons and maybe others that focus down to about 5 cm or so. That's not close enough for me, but I don't know what you really want. Also, most better cameras have all the goodies and thus can be complicated. However, I have a different opinion of this supposed complexity. It's like any good computer application. Your word processor may have the ability to do a thousand different things with a thousand different commands, however, most people who use a word processor will do 90-100% of their work using only a few commands. It's the same way with a digital camera. The Nikons that have been mentioned here have a very rich set of controls, two main menus with 1,2 or 3 pages each. But that's what the camera can do, not what you have to do. First off, most outdoor photos can be taken in automatic mode. You don't have to learn a thing except put the dial on "A." Shooting macros can be as complicated as you want to make it. It may work to your satisfaction in automatic mode; if not, it shouldn't take too long to find out what you want to do and how to set the camera in manual mode the way you need. You don't have to memorize all the commands, just a few settings that you use all the time. Below are two web sites with reviews and loads of information on digital cameras. Each one has a Buyers Guide where you can enter the camera characteristics that you want and see a list of models and brands. Find a couple that look good, then read the full review. http://www.dpreview.com/ http://www.steves-digicams.com/ Regards, Lanny On Jul 25, 2004, at 9:48 AM, Peter J. Modreski wrote: > Hi, Rockhounds, > > I wonder if anyone would care to share any advice with me, about > buying a digital camera? I'm sure this has been discussed online here > before, but everything's always changing rapidly, and I probably don't > have any of the old posts anyway. > > I'll appreciate any comments (or sources of info) any of you have to > share. If you'd like to send info that may not be of general interest > to the group, please just email it to me directly, pjmodreski@att.net > > I know there are a (bewildering?) number and kinds of cameras > available, with all kinds of features. I'd like one mainly that is > good for general-purpose use, taking pictures on field trips, of rock > outcrops, occasional use for close-up macro photos of minerals, etc. > > I do want a camera that has a reasonably good macro capability; many > of the camera comparisons I've seen don't always seem to give much > info about this, and I don't exactly know what parameter to look for > that "quantifies" macro capability. However, this is still not > something I'm going to use all the time--i.e., I don't take mineral > pictures to post online for sales or auctions, or anything like that. > My use of the camera will generally be more that of "a geologist who > likes to take rock and field trip pictures", than for close-up photos > of minerals, but I want to be able to do that too. For those who care > to read, here's what I think I'd like to find, based on the > (relatively little) I know so far about digital cameras: > >> From what I know, a 3 or 4 megapixel resolution is probably all I >> need. I doubt that I'd ever need to print out large-format hi-res >> prints. > > Good macro capability (for minerals, flowers, etc.). > > Reasonably good zoom. > > Moderate price (I can probably be satisfied with a camera in or near > the $200-$400 price range; I probably don't want to spend any more > than that.) > > Simple to operate (at work, we used to have a Nikon Coolpix (9500?) > camera that was totally overwhelming as far as the number of menu > options; I could never figure out how to do ANYTHING without carefully > reading the manual. I don't need all that jazz-a-ma-tazz, though I am > used to using my conventional 35mm SLR (Canon) camera where I always > enjoy making my own focus and exposure settings. > > Simple and convenient to transfer pictures (that Nikon Coolpix > again--I NEVER could get it to download pictures (it could only do it > through a cable) to my somewhat older home computer (uses Window > 98SE). > > I doubt that I'd use the digital movie capability that some cameras > have, very much. > > I've been advised to get an upgraded memory card rather than the > minimum that comes with most cameras; and, that a card reader > accessory is very handy. Also to get rechargeable batteries for the > camera. > > A question--do all digital cameras include a built-in flash? I've > seen some that have a shoe for a separate flash--I'd just as soon have > it built-in. > > And I'd almost consider getting a weatherproof camera, of which I've > seen a few. I think I "destroyed" our Coolpix one day, by taking it > with me on a hike and taking pictures on a moderately wet, snowy > day--the camera only got a "little" wet, but.... Anyone had any > experience with this? > > I'll appreciate very much, any advice you all have! Any other special > comments I haven't thought of, or things to look for, or to avoid? > Many thanks, > > Pete Modreski > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Mon Jul 26 09:57:15 2004 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Mon Jul 26 09:57:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Crescent Mine, Olympic Peninsula, Washington In-Reply-To: <003001c4727e$8b5892a0$6401a8c0@Junior> References: <4104044E.6010702@tenforward.com> <003001c4727e$8b5892a0$6401a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <410537EB.2020207@tenforward.com> Hi Tim, Wes and Everyone, Thank you for writing, what sobering emails. I'd placed the following into the text, " If on another trip you decide to continue your adventures at the Crescent Mine, do so at your own risk knowing that you are advancing towards dangerous ground. This account is not in any fashion suggesting and or granting permission to access this property further". I guess I'd hoped this would suffice. This is an issue I feel is so very out of whack in America, the personal responsibility issue. My goal in writing these papers is to share the exciting worlds of minerals and fossils with others. As some of you know, I present Crystal and Fossil talks and it's amazing to me that literally thousands of folks have never even heard of these natural treasures which surround us. For our family, we've had wonderful times and our appreciation of the natural world inspires us through the monotony that is our everyday life. So, what am I to do? I hate the thought of being frozen in fear and I really believe the story is worth telling (if for no other reason then just to clear my own head). I can't be responsible for everyone, hopefully I've not made a mistake, like you said Tim, "If there are any lawyers or insurance brokers in the house, or anybody with knowledge about liability issues, please feel free to jump in". Just my thoughts, my apologies if I've been too outspoken. All the very best, John Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: >Hey John, > >I'm wondering if you've looked into the liability issue surrounding a post >like this? I've heard that if somebody reads something like this online, >goes there, and breaks their neck, you are probably liable and can get hit >with a lawsuit that will more or less ruin your life. Advertising a locality >with such exceedingly dangerous underground collecting seems a little risky >to me, but I may just be paranoid. > >The issue is of great interest to me, as I'm working on pages on >geology/mineral/fossil/mining localities here in Ontario. Some are highly >dangerous, with concealed shafts - and of course all field collecting has >certain inherent risks. I've written a disclaimer, but have no idea if it >gives me any legal protection. > >If there are any lawyers or insurance brokers in the house, or anybody with >knowledge about liability issues, please feel free to jump in. > >Cheers, > >Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com >Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com >The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com >Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John and Gloria Cornish" > >snip > > >>Old wooden >>ladders and crib work around the collar of a manway ascended upwards >>beyond the light of the most powerful flashlights. The wood was water >>saturated, clammy and unhealthy to the touch with fungus and mold >>sliming its surface. A finger could be pressed through the rotten stuff >>with little effort and it was a wonder that they had not collapsed long >>ago under their own weight. >> >> >snip > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tjokela at execulink.com Mon Jul 26 09:58:44 2004 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Mon Jul 26 09:58:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice? References: <4E63F55D-DF23-11D8-947E-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Message-ID: <002801c47331$cf98dcf0$6401a8c0@Junior> The more you pay, the faster the shutter speed. It is a concern for professionals or photomicrography, but many digicams come with a remote control or a self-timer. I used the 10-second timer for hundreds of pix with my old digicam but don't bother with my new Canon digital Rebel. I've yet to do much shooting of minerals with it, gotta spring for a good macro lens and -ugh- actually figure out how to tweak all the complicated SLR settings properly. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Durstling" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 12:46 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice? > > Hi everyone, > > One thing that troubles me about all the digital cameras I have used so > far is the absence of a cable-release for the shutter. Even if the > camera is up on a tripod, hitting that little shutter release button > with the index finger must cause unnecessary vibration. Does anyone > know whether this is a valid concern? Or are digital camera shutter > speeds so fast that it makes no difference? > > Cheers > Hans Durstling > Moncton, Canada > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Mon Jul 26 10:06:13 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Mon Jul 26 10:03:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice? In-Reply-To: <4E63F55D-DF23-11D8-947E-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Message-ID: <200407261702.i6QH2vLZ018986@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Two fixes: Simple one: use the tripod and the self-timer. On my 4300, turning that on and giving a double-click to the shutter gives me a 3 second delay. I even use this when bracing myself on a wall. $$ one: you can buy a remote shutter cable that plugs into the side of the 4300 (and other Nikons). This gives you the usual shutter button, along with some added features such as the ability to do time-lapse photography. I assume this sort of cable is available to other cameras, too. Regards, GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Hans Durstling > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 11:46 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice? > > > Hi everyone, > > One thing that troubles me about all the digital cameras I > have used so far is the absence of a cable-release ... From lanny at lrream.com Mon Jul 26 10:09:29 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Mon Jul 26 10:09:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Crescent Mine, Olympic Peninsula, Washington In-Reply-To: <003001c4727e$8b5892a0$6401a8c0@Junior> References: <4104044E.6010702@tenforward.com> <003001c4727e$8b5892a0$6401a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <8E7D881C-DF26-11D8-A99C-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi Tim, That really scares me. We've all heard of all kinds of stories of someone being sued, and losing, over some incident where we can't understand why he was determined to be liable, but this one just isn't right. If this is true, then it will kill the guidebook business! If someone suggests that I visit Disney Land (not a chance) and I get injured there can I collect from the person who recommended it? How about if someone suggests I go camp at some lake in the mountains and I get hurt, can I collect on that one? Those aren't questions for you to answer of course, just rhetorical in nature. It's just that the thought that you are liable because you described a mine to someone is really scary! It's too bad the American courts (I don't know how bad this is in Canada) took on the role of removing personal liability from the individual and put it on the backs of everyone else. We all know we've lost a lot of collecting localities because of access being limited because of this liability issue, but for it to apply to mine descriptions is just too scary. Considering all the guidebooks I've written and published and the articles I've written and had published... Regards, Lanny On Jul 25, 2004, at 12:35 PM, Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: > Hey John, > > I'm wondering if you've looked into the liability issue surrounding a > post > like this? I've heard that if somebody reads something like this > online, > goes there, and breaks their neck, you are probably liable and can get > hit > with a lawsuit that will more or less ruin your life. Advertising a > locality > with such exceedingly dangerous underground collecting seems a little > risky > to me, but I may just be paranoid. > > The issue is of great interest to me, as I'm working on pages on > geology/mineral/fossil/mining localities here in Ontario. Some are > highly > dangerous, with concealed shafts - and of course all field collecting > has > certain inherent risks. I've written a disclaimer, but have no idea if > it > gives me any legal protection. > > If there are any lawyers or insurance brokers in the house, or anybody > with > knowledge about liability issues, please feel free to jump in. > > Cheers, > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John and Gloria Cornish" > > snip >> Old wooden >> ladders and crib work around the collar of a manway ascended upwards >> beyond the light of the most powerful flashlights. The wood was water >> saturated, clammy and unhealthy to the touch with fungus and mold >> sliming its surface. A finger could be pressed through the rotten >> stuff >> with little effort and it was a wonder that they had not collapsed >> long >> ago under their own weight. > snip > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From tjokela at execulink.com Mon Jul 26 10:14:53 2004 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Mon Jul 26 10:14:54 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Crescent Mine, Olympic Peninsula, Washington References: <4104044E.6010702@tenforward.com><003001c4727e$8b5892a0$6401a8c0@Junior> <410537EB.2020207@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <002d01c47334$11558f10$6401a8c0@Junior> No need for apologies John, I hope I wasn't too harsh - it's just something to think about. I hate to be paranoid myself, and I hate having to screen what I write because of litigious idiots. I'm not suggesting you quit what you're doing, but you may want to consider some of the possibilities. I wish I could get some free time from a lawyer to see what the law has to say; doesn't look like there are any lawyers on the list. My personal take on the story of the Mn mine that you're telling would be to discuss the history and the minerals, the dumps, etc., you're fairly safe there - but I wouldn't start telling people what's to be found within the mine, with the rotting ladders and cave-ins and whatnot. I'd include a very serious warning that poking around in adits is extremely, extremely dangerous and leave it at that - don't give anybody any reason to go underground. Mention of a healthy bat population is a good way to keep people from exploring adits. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John and Gloria Cornish" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] The Crescent Mine, Olympic Peninsula, Washington > Hi Tim, Wes and Everyone, > > Thank you for writing, what sobering emails. I'd placed the following > into the text, " If on another trip you decide to continue your > adventures at the Crescent Mine, do so at your own risk knowing that you > are advancing towards dangerous ground. This account is not in any > fashion suggesting and or granting permission to access this property > further". I guess I'd hoped this would suffice. This is an issue I feel > is so very out of whack in America, the personal responsibility issue. > > My goal in writing these papers is to share the exciting worlds of > minerals and fossils with others. As some of you know, I present Crystal > and Fossil talks and it's amazing to me that literally thousands of > folks have never even heard of these natural treasures which surround > us. For our family, we've had wonderful times and our appreciation of > the natural world inspires us through the monotony that is our everyday > life. So, what am I to do? I hate the thought of being frozen in fear > and I really believe the story is worth telling (if for no other reason > then just to clear my own head). I can't be responsible for everyone, > hopefully I've not made a mistake, like you said Tim, "If there are any > lawyers or insurance brokers in the house, or anybody with knowledge > about liability issues, please feel free to jump in". Just my thoughts, > my apologies if I've been too outspoken. All the very best, > > John > > > > > Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: > > >Hey John, > > > >I'm wondering if you've looked into the liability issue surrounding a post > >like this? I've heard that if somebody reads something like this online, > >goes there, and breaks their neck, you are probably liable and can get hit > >with a lawsuit that will more or less ruin your life. Advertising a locality > >with such exceedingly dangerous underground collecting seems a little risky > >to me, but I may just be paranoid. > > > >The issue is of great interest to me, as I'm working on pages on > >geology/mineral/fossil/mining localities here in Ontario. Some are highly > >dangerous, with concealed shafts - and of course all field collecting has > >certain inherent risks. I've written a disclaimer, but have no idea if it > >gives me any legal protection. > > > >If there are any lawyers or insurance brokers in the house, or anybody with > >knowledge about liability issues, please feel free to jump in. > > > >Cheers, > > > >Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > >Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > >The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > >Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "John and Gloria Cornish" > > > >snip > > > > > >>Old wooden > >>ladders and crib work around the collar of a manway ascended upwards > >>beyond the light of the most powerful flashlights. The wood was water > >>saturated, clammy and unhealthy to the touch with fungus and mold > >>sliming its surface. A finger could be pressed through the rotten stuff > >>with little effort and it was a wonder that they had not collapsed long > >>ago under their own weight. > >> > >> > >snip > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tjokela at execulink.com Mon Jul 26 10:38:50 2004 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Mon Jul 26 10:38:52 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Crescent Mine, Olympic Peninsula, Washington References: <4104044E.6010702@tenforward.com><003001c4727e$8b5892a0$6401a8c0@Junior> <8E7D881C-DF26-11D8-A99C-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <003401c47337$69dca580$6401a8c0@Junior> Funny, Lanny, I was just wondering about your take on the issue, after all you've written. The difference between publicizing mine sites and publicizing Disneyland is that people are killed by falling down mine shafts quite regularly - the risk is much, much greater. So is it irresponsible to publicize a place that is clearly dangerous? If it is irresponsible, bingo, you can be held liable for your actions. One might bear in mind that lawyers like blanket lawsuits. They name everybody in a lawsuit, from the property owner to the guy that sold an ice cream to the "victim" before he broke his neck, whether they have a case or not. Which means you get to hire a lawyer at $300 an hour to defend yourself against absolutely nothing - hello bankruptcy. I started getting a little nervous after a discussion with a guy that has done a lot of research on the Madoc area, especially the Richardson Mine, the first gold mine in Ontario. The site of this mine is incredibly dangerous, with poorly-covered open shafts galore, so he won't even post a picture of the place on his site. I'm thinking it's probably time for me to spend a few bucks on a phone consultation with a lawyer, there doesn't seem to be any other way of figuring this stuff out. It'd be nice if a club or federation with a healthy bank balance were to spend a few bucks on a legal opinion. I hope that the disclaimer I came up with for ontariominerals.com, quoted below, is sufficient. I don't know if one is absolved from liability by pointing out the obvious dangers and telling people not to tresspass. IMPORTANT: Mineral localities listed on this website are not necessarily open for collecting. Some are fee sites, open only on specific days of the week; some are active mines; and some have irate owners who do not take kindly to trespassers. Find out who owns the property and whether they allow collecting before you go pounding on any rocks. Those foolish enough to trespass on posted land or enter active mines or quarries without permission endanger themselves and may cause the permanant closure of that site. Again, I really don't want to get everybody all paranoid, I'm just suggesting that it's something to think about. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 1:09 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] The Crescent Mine, Olympic Peninsula, Washington > Hi Tim, > > That really scares me. We've all heard of all kinds of stories of > someone being sued, and losing, over some incident where we can't > understand why he was determined to be liable, but this one just isn't > right. If this is true, then it will kill the guidebook business! If > someone suggests that I visit Disney Land (not a chance) and I get > injured there can I collect from the person who recommended it? How > about if someone suggests I go camp at some lake in the mountains and I > get hurt, can I collect on that one? > > Those aren't questions for you to answer of course, just rhetorical in > nature. It's just that the thought that you are liable because you > described a mine to someone is really scary! > > It's too bad the American courts (I don't know how bad this is in > Canada) took on the role of removing personal liability from the > individual and put it on the backs of everyone else. We all know we've > lost a lot of collecting localities because of access being limited > because of this liability issue, but for it to apply to mine > descriptions is just too scary. Considering all the guidebooks I've > written and published and the articles I've written and had > published... > > Regards, > > Lanny > > > On Jul 25, 2004, at 12:35 PM, Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: > > > Hey John, > > > > I'm wondering if you've looked into the liability issue surrounding a > > post > > like this? I've heard that if somebody reads something like this > > online, > > goes there, and breaks their neck, you are probably liable and can get > > hit > > with a lawsuit that will more or less ruin your life. Advertising a > > locality > > with such exceedingly dangerous underground collecting seems a little > > risky > > to me, but I may just be paranoid. > > > > The issue is of great interest to me, as I'm working on pages on > > geology/mineral/fossil/mining localities here in Ontario. Some are > > highly > > dangerous, with concealed shafts - and of course all field collecting > > has > > certain inherent risks. I've written a disclaimer, but have no idea if > > it > > gives me any legal protection. > > > > If there are any lawyers or insurance brokers in the house, or anybody > > with > > knowledge about liability issues, please feel free to jump in. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John and Gloria Cornish" > > > > snip > >> Old wooden > >> ladders and crib work around the collar of a manway ascended upwards > >> beyond the light of the most powerful flashlights. The wood was water > >> saturated, clammy and unhealthy to the touch with fungus and mold > >> sliming its surface. A finger could be pressed through the rotten > >> stuff > >> with little effort and it was a wonder that they had not collapsed > >> long > >> ago under their own weight. > > snip > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From cjkuo at verizon.net Mon Jul 26 10:43:21 2004 From: cjkuo at verizon.net (Jimmy Kuo) Date: Mon Jul 26 10:44:36 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Crescent Mine, Olympic Peninsula, Washington References: <4104044E.6010702@tenforward.com><003001c4727e$8b5892a0$6401a8c0@Junior><410537EB.2020207@tenforward.com> <002d01c47334$11558f10$6401a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <068601c47338$0b9455d0$0b02a8c0@eur.nai.com> Basically, you're saying that the story should be toward factual representation, "Magnesium based crystals have been found" and never in the second person, "you could find..." Someone has to be "led". And if you don't lead them, no problem. Jimmy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Jokela Jr." To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 10:14 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] The Crescent Mine, Olympic Peninsula, Washington > No need for apologies John, I hope I wasn't too harsh - it's just something > to think about. I hate to be paranoid myself, and I hate having to screen > what I write because of litigious idiots. I'm not suggesting you quit what > you're doing, but you may want to consider some of the possibilities. > > I wish I could get some free time from a lawyer to see what the law has to > say; doesn't look like there are any lawyers on the list. > > My personal take on the story of the Mn mine that you're telling would be to > discuss the history and the minerals, the dumps, etc., you're fairly safe > there - but I wouldn't start telling people what's to be found within the > mine, with the rotting ladders and cave-ins and whatnot. I'd include a very > serious warning that poking around in adits is extremely, extremely > dangerous and leave it at that - don't give anybody any reason to go > underground. Mention of a healthy bat population is a good way to keep > people from exploring adits. > > Cheers, > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John and Gloria Cornish" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 12:57 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] The Crescent Mine, Olympic Peninsula, Washington > > > > Hi Tim, Wes and Everyone, > > > > Thank you for writing, what sobering emails. I'd placed the following > > into the text, " If on another trip you decide to continue your > > adventures at the Crescent Mine, do so at your own risk knowing that you > > are advancing towards dangerous ground. This account is not in any > > fashion suggesting and or granting permission to access this property > > further". I guess I'd hoped this would suffice. This is an issue I feel > > is so very out of whack in America, the personal responsibility issue. > > > > My goal in writing these papers is to share the exciting worlds of > > minerals and fossils with others. As some of you know, I present Crystal > > and Fossil talks and it's amazing to me that literally thousands of > > folks have never even heard of these natural treasures which surround > > us. For our family, we've had wonderful times and our appreciation of > > the natural world inspires us through the monotony that is our everyday > > life. So, what am I to do? I hate the thought of being frozen in fear > > and I really believe the story is worth telling (if for no other reason > > then just to clear my own head). I can't be responsible for everyone, > > hopefully I've not made a mistake, like you said Tim, "If there are any > > lawyers or insurance brokers in the house, or anybody with knowledge > > about liability issues, please feel free to jump in". Just my thoughts, > > my apologies if I've been too outspoken. All the very best, > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: > > > > >Hey John, > > > > > >I'm wondering if you've looked into the liability issue surrounding a > post > > >like this? I've heard that if somebody reads something like this online, > > >goes there, and breaks their neck, you are probably liable and can get > hit > > >with a lawsuit that will more or less ruin your life. Advertising a > locality > > >with such exceedingly dangerous underground collecting seems a little > risky > > >to me, but I may just be paranoid. > > > > > >The issue is of great interest to me, as I'm working on pages on > > >geology/mineral/fossil/mining localities here in Ontario. Some are highly > > >dangerous, with concealed shafts - and of course all field collecting > has > > >certain inherent risks. I've written a disclaimer, but have no idea if it > > >gives me any legal protection. > > > > > >If there are any lawyers or insurance brokers in the house, or anybody > with > > >knowledge about liability issues, please feel free to jump in. > > > > > >Cheers, > > > > > >Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > > >Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > > >The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > >Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "John and Gloria Cornish" > > > > > >snip > > > > > > > > >>Old wooden > > >>ladders and crib work around the collar of a manway ascended upwards > > >>beyond the light of the most powerful flashlights. The wood was water > > >>saturated, clammy and unhealthy to the touch with fungus and mold > > >>sliming its surface. A finger could be pressed through the rotten stuff > > >>with little effort and it was a wonder that they had not collapsed long > > >>ago under their own weight. > > >> > > >> > > >snip > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > >Subscription Services: > > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tjokela at execulink.com Mon Jul 26 10:58:30 2004 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Mon Jul 26 10:58:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Crescent Mine, Olympic Peninsula, Washington References: <4104044E.6010702@tenforward.com><003001c4727e$8b5892a0$6401a8c0@Junior><410537EB.2020207@tenforward.com><002d01c47334$11558f10$6401a8c0@Junior> <068601c47338$0b9455d0$0b02a8c0@eur.nai.com> Message-ID: <003d01c4733a$2934cc80$6401a8c0@Junior> Hmm, I never really thought about first and second person, but that's a good point. I'm more interested in making it very, very clear that adits, tunnels, shafts, etc. are not to be messed with whatsoever. People that read mineral mags know this stuff, but any knucklehead can read a web page and think abandoned mines are fun places to play in. Abandoned mines are at the top of the long list of dangers. There are so many hazards in field collecting that it's a wonder any of us are still alive. In the pages I'm working on now I mention stuff like cliffs without guardrails, the dangers of standing at the top or bottom of a 100 meter high vertical sand bluff, even bugs, snakes, and poison ivy. The pages are meant for teachers, so I feel an obligation to point these things out. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jimmy Kuo" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 1:43 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] The Crescent Mine, Olympic Peninsula, Washington > Basically, you're saying that the story should be toward factual > representation, "Magnesium based crystals have been found" and never in the > second person, "you could find..." > > Someone has to be "led". And if you don't lead them, no problem. > > Jimmy From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jul 26 11:00:00 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jul 26 11:00:06 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice? References: <4E63F55D-DF23-11D8-947E-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Message-ID: <008101c4733a$6281aee0$6402a8c0@axel> The Nikon CP 4500 has a connector for a remote cable, the Canon Powershots have a remote by IR. Both can be remotely operated. The canon by PC, the Nikon by Palm computer (I was told). Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Durstling" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 6:46 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice? > > Hi everyone, > > One thing that troubles me about all the digital cameras I have used so > far is the absence of a cable-release for the shutter. Even if the > camera is up on a tripod, hitting that little shutter release button > with the index finger must cause unnecessary vibration. Does anyone > know whether this is a valid concern? Or are digital camera shutter > speeds so fast that it makes no difference? > > Cheers > Hans Durstling > Moncton, Canada > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jul 26 11:07:07 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jul 26 11:07:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice? References: <004901c47267$2b259de0$06a4490c@pete> Message-ID: <009301c4733b$61255dc0$6402a8c0@axel> Hi Pete With the adapter and a couple of diopter lenses I achieve magnifications that are acceptable. Image width of 18 mm for the Canon Powershot 1. You loose a little quality but nothing dramatic. I'd say if you NEED to go smaller than 2 cm image width the Powershot is not for you. Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 6:55 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice? > Hi Pete, > > The selection of cameras with good macro ability is probably rather > small in a price range below $400, but there are some Canons and maybe > others that focus down to about 5 cm or so. That's not close enough > for me, but I don't know what you really want. > > Also, most better cameras have all the goodies and thus can be > complicated. However, I have a different opinion of this supposed > complexity. It's like any good computer application. Your word > processor may have the ability to do a thousand different things with a > thousand different commands, however, most people who use a word > processor will do 90-100% of their work using only a few commands. > > It's the same way with a digital camera. The Nikons that have been > mentioned here have a very rich set of controls, two main menus with > 1,2 or 3 pages each. But that's what the camera can do, not what you > have to do. First off, most outdoor photos can be taken in automatic > mode. You don't have to learn a thing except put the dial on "A." > > Shooting macros can be as complicated as you want to make it. It may > work to your satisfaction in automatic mode; if not, it shouldn't take > too long to find out what you want to do and how to set the camera in > manual mode the way you need. You don't have to memorize all the > commands, just a few settings that you use all the time. > > Below are two web sites with reviews and loads of information on > digital cameras. Each one has a Buyers Guide where you can enter the > camera characteristics that you want and see a list of models and > brands. Find a couple that look good, then read the full review. > > http://www.dpreview.com/ > > http://www.steves-digicams.com/ > > Regards, > > Lanny > > On Jul 25, 2004, at 9:48 AM, Peter J. Modreski wrote: > > > Hi, Rockhounds, > > > > I wonder if anyone would care to share any advice with me, about > > buying a digital camera? I'm sure this has been discussed online here > > before, but everything's always changing rapidly, and I probably don't > > have any of the old posts anyway. > > > > I'll appreciate any comments (or sources of info) any of you have to > > share. If you'd like to send info that may not be of general interest > > to the group, please just email it to me directly, pjmodreski@att.net > > > > I know there are a (bewildering?) number and kinds of cameras > > available, with all kinds of features. I'd like one mainly that is > > good for general-purpose use, taking pictures on field trips, of rock > > outcrops, occasional use for close-up macro photos of minerals, etc. > > > > I do want a camera that has a reasonably good macro capability; many > > of the camera comparisons I've seen don't always seem to give much > > info about this, and I don't exactly know what parameter to look for > > that "quantifies" macro capability. However, this is still not > > something I'm going to use all the time--i.e., I don't take mineral > > pictures to post online for sales or auctions, or anything like that. > > My use of the camera will generally be more that of "a geologist who > > likes to take rock and field trip pictures", than for close-up photos > > of minerals, but I want to be able to do that too. For those who care > > to read, here's what I think I'd like to find, based on the > > (relatively little) I know so far about digital cameras: > > > >> From what I know, a 3 or 4 megapixel resolution is probably all I > >> need. I doubt that I'd ever need to print out large-format hi-res > >> prints. > > > > Good macro capability (for minerals, flowers, etc.). > > > > Reasonably good zoom. > > > > Moderate price (I can probably be satisfied with a camera in or near > > the $200-$400 price range; I probably don't want to spend any more > > than that.) > > > > Simple to operate (at work, we used to have a Nikon Coolpix (9500?) > > camera that was totally overwhelming as far as the number of menu > > options; I could never figure out how to do ANYTHING without carefully > > reading the manual. I don't need all that jazz-a-ma-tazz, though I am > > used to using my conventional 35mm SLR (Canon) camera where I always > > enjoy making my own focus and exposure settings. > > > > Simple and convenient to transfer pictures (that Nikon Coolpix > > again--I NEVER could get it to download pictures (it could only do it > > through a cable) to my somewhat older home computer (uses Window > > 98SE). > > > > I doubt that I'd use the digital movie capability that some cameras > > have, very much. > > > > I've been advised to get an upgraded memory card rather than the > > minimum that comes with most cameras; and, that a card reader > > accessory is very handy. Also to get rechargeable batteries for the > > camera. > > > > A question--do all digital cameras include a built-in flash? I've > > seen some that have a shoe for a separate flash--I'd just as soon have > > it built-in. > > > > And I'd almost consider getting a weatherproof camera, of which I've > > seen a few. I think I "destroyed" our Coolpix one day, by taking it > > with me on a hike and taking pictures on a moderately wet, snowy > > day--the camera only got a "little" wet, but.... Anyone had any > > experience with this? > > > > I'll appreciate very much, any advice you all have! Any other special > > comments I haven't thought of, or things to look for, or to avoid? > > Many thanks, > > > > Pete Modreski > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jul 26 11:14:53 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jul 26 11:14:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] You might be a rockhound if...... References: <000001c47318$2becb900$c8e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <00ac01c4733c$76ffbcc0$6402a8c0@axel> > Following up on that, some of us, when watching fireworks, automatically > think of identifying minerals by means of flame tests (part of what used to > be called "pyrognostics"). How many of you instantly associate red > fireworks with strontium, bluish green with copper, white with magnesium or > aluminum, etc.? and europium with the deep purple embers that light up the sky... Fireworks, Smoke on the water, Deep Purple??? How old must one be to remember that.... Cheers Axel From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Jul 26 11:25:33 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Jul 26 11:25:36 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Siderazot, or not? Message-ID: <072620041825.27919.41054C9D0002034E00006D0F216037631607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Don, I'm pretty sure that the density difference between, say, pyrite and marcasite would not nearly be enough to show any contrast in a backscattered-electron image on an SEM. Pete < References: <003a01c472f9$e2050720$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040726084740.064a26b0@mail.aloha.net> At 12:18 AM 7/26/2004, Axel wrote: >Ultimately, you would get a glassy substance with highly parallel inclusions >of the same but oxidized material. If these inclusions are packed together >close enough, you might very well see the same iridescence as described by >Kitty. >Why then blue and no other colors? As I stated in an earlier message, although blue is the most common, I have several specimens with gold and yellow iridescence, and well as some with multiple colors. Aloha, Kitty From Gslrocks at aol.com Mon Jul 26 12:05:48 2004 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Mon Jul 26 12:05:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] You might be a rockhound if...... Message-ID: <1d5.270c2335.2e36b00c@aol.com> well i shoot many fireworks displays... some near the water but i have not burned any buildings down yet! But in the old days extra pyro chemicals have been added to campfires. After visiting differnt camps at night it was easy to find ours in the dark as it was the only fire that glowed in blues, greens, reds,and pinks... with the occasional zirconium, titanium, aluminum, magnallium (50% aluminum 50%magnesium) or plain old iron filings for sparkles. Greg Lesinski GSLROCKS 4726 Porter Center Rd. Lewiston NY 14092 Fluorescent minerals, ultraviolet lamps and reference books website www.gslrocks.com GSLROCKS@AOL.COM 716-754-9729 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jul 26 12:23:33 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jul 26 12:23:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Siderazot, or not? References: <003a01c472f9$e2050720$6402a8c0@axel> <6.1.2.0.0.20040726084740.064a26b0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <00ea01c47346$0ec14a70$6402a8c0@axel> My mistake, Kitty... lust have picked it up somewhere along the siderazot track ;-))) I did not read ALL the responses to this thread so my question may be redundant: does the iridescence occur only on the surface of the lava or is it visible on fractures (just below the surface) too? Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 8:52 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Siderazot, or not? > At 12:18 AM 7/26/2004, Axel wrote: > > >Ultimately, you would get a glassy substance with highly parallel inclusions > >of the same but oxidized material. If these inclusions are packed together > >close enough, you might very well see the same iridescence as described by > >Kitty. > >Why then blue and no other colors? > > As I stated in an earlier message, although blue is the most common, I have > several specimens with gold and yellow iridescence, and well as some with > multiple colors. > > Aloha, Kitty > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Mon Jul 26 12:41:42 2004 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Mon Jul 26 12:41:41 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Siderazot, or not? In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20040726084740.064a26b0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: I vote for Axel's hypothesis. Blue is not my most common color: Kilahuea 1974 lava: gold, blue, red, purple Pu'u O'o flow to ocean: gold blue and minor purple Pavahi crater, 1979 eruption: gold, minor blue Kilahuea 1882 lava, gold, bownish (where lava came into contact with trees) and minor blue Etna: minor iridiscence, blue, purple and gold Vesuvius 1944 lava: blue, purple gold Tolbachik 1979: mainly gold Avachinski, Vilyuchinsky, Karymsky samples from Kamchatka have no iridescence at all. So Axel all you have to do is check for the lammellar structure and find out if there is some connection between the occurence of iridescence and the viscosity of the lava :-) cheers, Maurice -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill Heacox Sent: 26 July 2004 20:52 To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Siderazot, or not? At 12:18 AM 7/26/2004, Axel wrote: >Ultimately, you would get a glassy substance with highly parallel inclusions >of the same but oxidized material. If these inclusions are packed together >close enough, you might very well see the same iridescence as described by >Kitty. >Why then blue and no other colors? As I stated in an earlier message, although blue is the most common, I have several specimens with gold and yellow iridescence, and well as some with multiple colors. Aloha, Kitty _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Mon Jul 26 12:56:59 2004 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Mon Jul 26 12:57:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Crescent Mine, Olympic Peninsula, Washington In-Reply-To: <002d01c47334$11558f10$6401a8c0@Junior> References: <4104044E.6010702@tenforward.com><003001c4727e$8b5892a0$6401a8c0@Junior> <410537EB.2020207@tenforward.com> <002d01c47334$11558f10$6401a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <4105620B.5060002@tenforward.com> Hi Tim and All, We're off and running now. No problems Tim, your never too harsh and I appreciate your views. We're just talking here... Since this mine has led us here, let's stay here awhile longer. This small report on the Crescent is woefully incomplete and inadequate and yet it is the only recent writing pertaining to this property of which I'm aware. As the years have passed, the mine and it's history have become lost, fading into the forest and out of memory. As an example, had I not visited and documented the interior condition of the lower haulage tunnel prior to its collapse, this information would have been lost. Nothing of real significance was gained from this exploration, still, things could have been different.... ....While struggling through the choking undergrowth I lucked upon a partially collapsed tunnel, as I shown my light into its dark belly I was amazed to see the tunnel walls a glitter with a thousand hot pink stars a blaze; I'd found the lost rhodochrosite lode of the Crescent!.... ...and bats, nope. If we're going to report on a property or experience, I think it's important that we stick with the facts. Thanks for taking the time and good luck with your project Tim. Thanks all, see ya, John Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: >No need for apologies John, I hope I wasn't too harsh - it's just something >to think about. I hate to be paranoid myself, and I hate having to screen >what I write because of litigious idiots. I'm not suggesting you quit what >you're doing, but you may want to consider some of the possibilities. > >I wish I could get some free time from a lawyer to see what the law has to >say; doesn't look like there are any lawyers on the list. > >My personal take on the story of the Mn mine that you're telling would be to >discuss the history and the minerals, the dumps, etc., you're fairly safe >there - but I wouldn't start telling people what's to be found within the >mine, with the rotting ladders and cave-ins and whatnot. I'd include a very >serious warning that poking around in adits is extremely, extremely >dangerous and leave it at that - don't give anybody any reason to go >underground. Mention of a healthy bat population is a good way to keep >people from exploring adits. > >Cheers, > >Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com >Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com >The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com >Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John and Gloria Cornish" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 12:57 PM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] The Crescent Mine, Olympic Peninsula, Washington > > > > >>Hi Tim, Wes and Everyone, >> >>Thank you for writing, what sobering emails. I'd placed the following >>into the text, " If on another trip you decide to continue your >>adventures at the Crescent Mine, do so at your own risk knowing that you >>are advancing towards dangerous ground. This account is not in any >>fashion suggesting and or granting permission to access this property >>further". I guess I'd hoped this would suffice. This is an issue I feel >>is so very out of whack in America, the personal responsibility issue. >> >>My goal in writing these papers is to share the exciting worlds of >>minerals and fossils with others. As some of you know, I present Crystal >>and Fossil talks and it's amazing to me that literally thousands of >>folks have never even heard of these natural treasures which surround >>us. For our family, we've had wonderful times and our appreciation of >>the natural world inspires us through the monotony that is our everyday >>life. So, what am I to do? I hate the thought of being frozen in fear >>and I really believe the story is worth telling (if for no other reason >>then just to clear my own head). I can't be responsible for everyone, >>hopefully I've not made a mistake, like you said Tim, "If there are any >>lawyers or insurance brokers in the house, or anybody with knowledge >>about liability issues, please feel free to jump in". Just my thoughts, >>my apologies if I've been too outspoken. All the very best, >> >>John >> >> >> >> >>Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: >> >> >> >>>Hey John, >>> >>>I'm wondering if you've looked into the liability issue surrounding a >>> >>> >post > > >>>like this? I've heard that if somebody reads something like this online, >>>goes there, and breaks their neck, you are probably liable and can get >>> >>> >hit > > >>>with a lawsuit that will more or less ruin your life. Advertising a >>> >>> >locality > > >>>with such exceedingly dangerous underground collecting seems a little >>> >>> >risky > > >>>to me, but I may just be paranoid. >>> >>>The issue is of great interest to me, as I'm working on pages on >>>geology/mineral/fossil/mining localities here in Ontario. Some are highly >>>dangerous, with concealed shafts - and of course all field collecting >>> >>> >has > > >>>certain inherent risks. I've written a disclaimer, but have no idea if it >>>gives me any legal protection. >>> >>>If there are any lawyers or insurance brokers in the house, or anybody >>> >>> >with > > >>>knowledge about liability issues, please feel free to jump in. >>> >>>Cheers, >>> >>>Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com >>>Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com >>>The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com >>>Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "John and Gloria Cornish" >>> >>>snip >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Old wooden >>>>ladders and crib work around the collar of a manway ascended upwards >>>>beyond the light of the most powerful flashlights. The wood was water >>>>saturated, clammy and unhealthy to the touch with fungus and mold >>>>sliming its surface. A finger could be pressed through the rotten stuff >>>>with little effort and it was a wonder that they had not collapsed long >>>>ago under their own weight. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>snip >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>>Subscription Services: >>>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >>--- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rik.dillen at skynet.be Mon Jul 26 12:58:25 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Mon Jul 26 12:58:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Siderazot, or not? In-Reply-To: <072620041825.27919.41054C9D0002034E00006D0F216037631607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <000001c4734a$e9c5b940$4707c850@maxdata> I think there is a misunderstanding in this thread. Not (weight) conventional density (cfr. specific gravity) is involved here, but roughly the mean atomic weight ! That is sometimes related to the (gravitational) density, but certainly not always. The difference between the mean atomic number of 2 phases should differ at least a few % to show in a BSE-image. Backscattering of an electron takes place because it bounces on the atomic cloud of just one (for a single backscattering event) atom, and it is the atomic number of that atom that plays a role. The more heavy (meaning : high atomic number) atoms are present, the more electrons are backscattered. Various isotopes of the same elements (they have the same atomic number) show the same electron backscatter intensity. Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15 B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium Tel. + 32 3 7706007 E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of *pjmodreski@att.net *Sent: maandag 26 juli 2004 20:26 *To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors *Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Siderazot, or not? * * *Don, * *I'm pretty sure that the density difference between, say, *pyrite and marcasite would not nearly be enough to show any *contrast in a backscattered-electron image on an SEM. * *Pete * *< References: <003a01c472f9$e2050720$6402a8c0@axel> <6.1.2.0.0.20040726084740.064a26b0@mail.aloha.net> <00ea01c47346$0ec14a70$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040726100628.064ada60@mail.aloha.net> The iridescence occurs for the most part on the surface. I have a few very thin pieces that are iridescent on both sides, almost as if they are a layer of different material that slipped off---like some of the "shelly pahoehoe" that I described on Kreigh's website (2nd picture, at http://Tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Minerals/FieldTrips.shtml ). If you like, I'll send you some specimens to play with. Aloha, Kitty. PS. Here's a comment Richard Dale made regarding shelly pahoehoe after he read my report: >> I thought I remembered Shelly Pahoehoe as the Tongan girl in one of my old college classes! << At 09:23 AM 7/26/2004, you wrote: >My mistake, Kitty... lust have picked it up somewhere along the siderazot >track ;-))) >I did not read ALL the responses to this thread so my question may be >redundant: >does the iridescence occur only on the surface of the lava or is it visible >on fractures (just below the surface) too? > >Cheers > >Axel --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mela at bartnet.net Mon Jul 26 13:04:14 2004 From: mela at bartnet.net (Mel Albright) Date: Mon Jul 26 13:08:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] You might be a rockhound if...... References: <29.5d1e6769.2e350960@aol.com> Message-ID: <007a01c4734c$50701d10$02b2950c@jessie> I'm glad my old friends still amuse - Obviously, tyhe idea came to me f rom a famous comedian's routines. Mel Albright From mela at bartnet.net Mon Jul 26 13:12:09 2004 From: mela at bartnet.net (Mel Albright) Date: Mon Jul 26 13:21:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] You might be a rockhound if...... References: <29.5d1e6769.2e350960@aol.com> Message-ID: <014101c4734e$1e9b3cf0$02b2950c@jessie> I'm glad my old friends still amuse - Obviously, the idea came to me f rom a famous comedian's routines. Bob's Rockhound picked up the original list. Then he had 2 contests for new ones. The total list ended up around 200 items.Just shows us old edtors that everything we write will eventually show up again. Mel Albright From morningstar at att.net Mon Jul 26 13:25:29 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Mon Jul 26 13:25:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Siderazot, or not? Message-ID: <072620042025.2065.410568B8000A9A6E0000081121612436469D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Not a misunderstanding, really, just a question about the effect of unit cell density on BEI. Even if you have 2 phases composed of FeS2, if one (pyrite) is packed more closely than the other (marcasite)*, then there would be more electrons to hit with the beam, and theoretically the pyrite should appear just the faintest shade darker. Of course, as Pete said, this could very well be undetectable by the human eye. Don * I don't know offhand which is more closely packed, but I presume pyrite is for the sake of discussion; you get the idea. > I think there is a misunderstanding in this thread. > Not (weight) conventional density (cfr. specific gravity) is involved here, but > roughly the mean atomic weight ! > That is sometimes related to the (gravitational) density, but certainly not > always. > The difference between the mean atomic number of 2 phases should differ at least From kahako at aloha.net Mon Jul 26 14:31:09 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Jul 26 14:04:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kilauea In-Reply-To: References: <6.1.2.0.0.20040726084740.064a26b0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040726112620.064d0eb0@mail.aloha.net> My most common color fro iridescence from Kilauea is blue, followed by gold, yellow, and a mixture of several colors, though probably not a true rainbow. Also a small correction: there is no < h > in Kilauea. Also, lava is still pouring into the ocean as we speak. Why don't you all come down here and take a look in person? :> Aloha, Kitty At 09:41 AM 7/26/2004, you wrote: >I vote for Axel's hypothesis. > >Blue is not my most common color: > >Kilahuea 1974 lava: gold, blue, red, purple >Pu'u O'o flow to ocean: gold blue and minor purple >Pavahi crater, 1979 eruption: gold, minor blue >Kilahuea 1882 lava, gold, bownish (where lava came into contact with trees) >and minor blue >Etna: minor iridiscence, blue, purple and gold >Vesuvius 1944 lava: blue, purple gold >Tolbachik 1979: mainly gold >Avachinski, Vilyuchinsky, Karymsky samples from Kamchatka have no >iridescence at all. > >So Axel all you have to do is check for the lammellar structure and find out >if there is some connection between the occurence of iridescence and the >viscosity of the lava :-) > >cheers, >Maurice From murowchickj at umkc.edu Mon Jul 26 14:29:15 2004 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (J B Murowchick) Date: Mon Jul 26 14:29:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice? In-Reply-To: <4E63F55D-DF23-11D8-947E-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Message-ID: Hello all Thought I'd add my 2 cents worth. Hans asked about vibration problems (below). I use a Nikon Coolpix 950 for field photography, macro work, and photomicrography (low-mag nonpolarized incident light and higher-mag polarized light work). Yes, pressing the button can introduce vibration that blurs the image. The nice thing about digitals is that you can inspect the image and immediately trash it if it's blurry. My shutter speeds are usually fast enough to prevent blurring with plane-polarized light, but with crossed nicols, exposures are longer (and the exposure bias needs to be adjusted to prevent overexposure if the field is very dark). BUT--there is a time delay I can use if needed to prevent vibration problems. (And I can screw a cable release into the shutter button, I think.) One overlooked aspect of using shutter speed to eliminate vibration blurring is that to prevent blurring, the duration of the image displacement during a vibration must not be similar to the shutter speed. If a vibration displaces the image some distance in, say 1/100 second, then during an exposure of 1/100 second, the object will be moving during the entire exposure. Usually, the solution is to have a very fast shutter speed: for a 1/1000 sec exposure, the object will move only 1/10 of the full vibration displacement during the exposure. That might limit blurring to an acceptable level. However with a camera on a microscope, the lighting might not permit such a short exposure. The alternative is to use an exposure much longer than the transient vibration. If the vibration occurs and motion ceases within 1/50 second, and an exposure time of 1 s is used, then the object is motionless for 49/50 sec, or 98% of the exposure time. The short time it is displaced will make an insignificant contribution to the image. Using a longer exposure time also permits the use of a smaller aperture and greater depth of focus--important considerations for macro work. Finally--don't be intimidated by a camera like the CoolPix which has lots of control choices. You can put it in automatic mode and simply point and shoot. But it is very nice to have alternatives available when that difficult shot comes up and you need to tell the camera how to collect the image. Jim on 7/26/04 11:46 AM, Hans Durstling at sinico@nbnet.nb.ca wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > One thing that troubles me about all the digital cameras I have used so > far is the absence of a cable-release for the shutter. Even if the > camera is up on a tripod, hitting that little shutter release button > with the index finger must cause unnecessary vibration. Does anyone > know whether this is a valid concern? Or are digital camera shutter > speeds so fast that it makes no difference? > > Cheers > Hans Durstling > Moncton, Canada > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds __________________________________________________________ Dr. James B. Murowchick Associate Professor Office: (816) 235-2979 Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall Fax: (816) 235-5535 University of Missouri-Kansas City E-mail: murowchickj@umkc.edu 5110 Rockhill Road Kansas City, MO 64110 From Rocks4u at prodigy.net Mon Jul 26 09:16:36 2004 From: Rocks4u at prodigy.net (Wes Lingerfelt) Date: Mon Jul 26 14:44:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Crescent Mine, Olympic Peninsula, Washington References: <4104044E.6010702@tenforward.com><003001c4727e$8b5892a0$6401a8c0@Junior> <410537EB.2020207@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <008a01c4732b$eee7e7a0$8291fea9@WesMedion1918> Just to follow up; I too am concerned about the state of the rockhounding hobby along with the closing of most good places to collect these days. However the reality is that where there is money to made someone will try to make it. I'm recalling an incident where a person was digging in the area behind Bakersfield, California's Hart Memorial Park for Sharks teeth on private property without permission. They found his crushed body with only his ankles sticking out of the wall. The area is well known for wall collapses as it is dried silt and sand from an ancient lake bottom (Hence the teeth are there but not plentiful). This person surely knew the risk he was taking. However, once it was discovered he held membership in a local club and a member of the California Federation of Mineralogical Societies the lawyers went for the deepest pockets and received several hundred thousand in compensation. Any idiot (or his family and their lawyers) can get rich these days just by doing something stupid! There is no doubt that the fear of litigation has closed more collecting areas than the entire environmental movement has. What's worse is the trend is growing in the wrong direction. My advise is to keep sharing (especially with the kids) and hope for a trend reversal but I don't think it is likely to happen soon. Cheers! ----- Original Message ----- From: "John and Gloria Cornish" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] The Crescent Mine, Olympic Peninsula, Washington > Hi Tim, Wes and Everyone, > > Thank you for writing, what sobering emails. I'd placed the following > into the text, " If on another trip you decide to continue your > adventures at the Crescent Mine, do so at your own risk knowing that you > are advancing towards dangerous ground. This account is not in any > fashion suggesting and or granting permission to access this property > further". I guess I'd hoped this would suffice. This is an issue I feel > is so very out of whack in America, the personal responsibility issue. > > My goal in writing these papers is to share the exciting worlds of > minerals and fossils with others. As some of you know, I present Crystal > and Fossil talks and it's amazing to me that literally thousands of > folks have never even heard of these natural treasures which surround > us. For our family, we've had wonderful times and our appreciation of > the natural world inspires us through the monotony that is our everyday > life. So, what am I to do? I hate the thought of being frozen in fear > and I really believe the story is worth telling (if for no other reason > then just to clear my own head). I can't be responsible for everyone, > hopefully I've not made a mistake, like you said Tim, "If there are any > lawyers or insurance brokers in the house, or anybody with knowledge > about liability issues, please feel free to jump in". Just my thoughts, > my apologies if I've been too outspoken. All the very best, > > John > > From kjvgorock at juno.com Mon Jul 26 15:21:41 2004 From: kjvgorock at juno.com (kjvgorock@juno.com) Date: Mon Jul 26 15:23:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Liability Release Form Message-ID: <20040726.172141.220.0.kjvgorock@juno.com> Hi all, Been off the list for a while - now back. Has anyone found or have a good liability release form for rock collecting on others' properties? I've found some that might work doing a google search, but would be interested to see if you have better ones. If you have a soft copy or link to one, please e-mail me the link or document. Thanks, Kenneth Vaisvil kjvgorock@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jul 26 15:40:57 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jul 26 15:41:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Siderazot, or not? References: Message-ID: <001801c47361$a2716960$6402a8c0@axel> Hi Maurice, > I vote for Axel's hypothesis. I'd call it a thought experiment but by lack of a better word hypothesis will have to do ;-))) > Kilahuea 1974 lava: gold, blue, red, purple > Pu'u O'o flow to ocean: gold blue and minor purple > Pavahi crater, 1979 eruption: gold, minor blue > Kilahuea 1882 lava, gold, bownish (where lava came into contact with trees) > and minor blue > Etna: minor iridiscence, blue, purple and gold > Vesuvius 1944 lava: blue, purple gold > Tolbachik 1979: mainly gold > Avachinski, Vilyuchinsky, Karymsky samples from Kamchatka have no > iridescence at all. If thin layer interference is involved, why is the green missing (and the red very rare)? Yellow and blue seem to be most common, why would that be? Just a basic observation: one set of complementary colors is prominently there, the other is missing (for the greater part). Are there other examples of this? I think I've seen this in soap bubbles (no really, don't laugh. It's about 10 years ago since I blew some bubbles with my kids but I remember)... a fresh bubble shows green and red... then, as the water evaporates and the bubble's "wall-thickness" decreases, yellow, gold and blue appear while green and red fade. > So Axel all you have to do is check for the lammellar structure and find out > if there is some connection between the occurence of iridescence and the > viscosity of the lava :-) My hippopotathesis needs low viscosity lava with high silica content.. I don't know the Kamchatka volcanoes but isn't Vesuvius lava rather viscous. I guess that basaltic lava's may iridesce due to other mechanisms (microcline or other stuff that forms lamellea?) or maybe even siderazot (LOL). Cheers Axel From hkrocke at sprint.ca Mon Jul 26 15:42:12 2004 From: hkrocke at sprint.ca (HilmarKrocke) Date: Mon Jul 26 15:43:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] digital camera advice? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: 2004.07.25 11:57Maurice de Graaf If you have good light the macro-zoom ends roughly where my 25x binocular starts. ____________________________________ What do you mean by that ??? Please explain !!! ____________________________________ With a home made adaptor for that binocular I can photograph about every size of rock down to about 1/10 of a millimeter. _____________________________________________________ You mean you take photographs through your binoculars ??? Or what ??? I am thinking of getting a digital camera too. Any clear advise would be appreciated. Hilmar --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Mon Jul 26 15:54:21 2004 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Mon Jul 26 15:54:20 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Siderazot, or not? In-Reply-To: <001801c47361$a2716960$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: >I don't know the Kamchatka volcanoes but isn't Vesuvius lava rather viscous. I will look through my Kamchatkan volcano books in the morning I I can find anything on their lava. BTW I think the 'mode' of eruption might be even more important. Afterall if the lava is flung out in explosions it will rain down as solid chunks. Generally thick lava/magma tends to explode rather that flow. This would so far go with Axel's theory (better word?) and the iridiscent lava observations. Hawaii has the best flow and by far the most iridescent lava. cheers Maurice From mela at bartnet.net Mon Jul 26 16:52:51 2004 From: mela at bartnet.net (Mel Albright) Date: Mon Jul 26 16:57:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] You might be a rockhound if...... References: <29.5d1e6769.2e350960@aol.com> <007a01c4734c$50701d10$02b2950c@jessie> Message-ID: <000a01c4736c$41733cf0$69b2950c@jessie> From mela at bartnet.net Mon Jul 26 16:57:02 2004 From: mela at bartnet.net (Mel Albright) Date: Mon Jul 26 16:57:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] You might be a rockhound if...... References: <29.5d1e6769.2e350960@aol.com> <014101c4734e$1e9b3cf0$02b2950c@jessie> Message-ID: <000b01c4736c$42285c20$69b2950c@jessie> a.. COMPLETE SET b.. Copyright Bob's Rock Shop c.. www.rockhounds.com d.. e.. f.. The sign on the side of the road says "Falling Rock" and you pull over to wait. g.. You accessorize your black & white cat with a collar that you made from the most FABULOUS snowflake obsidian for "dressy" days... then there's the turquoise for "casual" walks, carnelian and leoprdskin jasper for "outdoorsy" fun... and don't forget the rose quartz, chrysoprase and blue lace agate for picture day! h.. The severe sunburn acquired on your last vacation was a one inch wide strip of skin at the gap between the tail of your shirt and the top of your pants. i.. Watching the movie Armageddon while New York is being destroyed, all you can think about is all the great specimens there would be if that really happened. j.. Your kids bring you a "pretty stone" they've found, and you contrive to steal it. And you know you've done it. Don't lie. k.. You are convinced that buried deep in some secret government archive is a document that will conclusively prove that the entire US Apollo space program was conceived and developed for the sole purpose of getting a moon rock for a certain Presidential rock collection... The truth is out there! l.. You care more about what happened to the diamond in the move "Titanic" than the people. m.. You sob uncontrollably watching "How the West was Won" at the part where the farmers are clearing rocks and casting them off. n.. You bring a catchers mitt and a hand lens to a rock fight. o.. Your son hits his hand with your rock hammer, your wife screams it broken, and you reply it's a fracture, it has good cleavage, and has produced some unusual streaks in your son's underwear. p.. You've been found guilty of trespassing on BLM land. The judge sentences you to 10 years' hard labor breaking rocks. You fall to your knees and beg him, "Please, your honor, let it be in Franklin, New Jersey!" q.. Your spouse asks how the soup tastes and you reply, "variable color, greasy surface, low specific gravity, texture smooth with bits of ductile material." r.. When you lick a dirty rock to show off the wonderful colors, without stopping to realize that you are the only rockhound in the group. s.. Someone talks about cleavage and you don't think about women. t.. The USGS calls to tell you they've discovered a gravitational anomaly centered on your house and to ask if you might know the reason why. u.. Your family puts the birthday candles on a slab of amethyst instead of cake. v.. A truck throws a rock into your windshield and you examine the rock first. w.. Considering the purchase of a spectacular specimen at a mineral show, you wonder if all three of your kids really need to attend college. x.. You can pronounce the word "molybdenite" correctly on the first try. y.. You think the primary function of road cuts is tourist attractions. z.. You own more pieces of quartz than underwear. aa.. You associate the word "hard" with a value on the Mhos scale instead of "work". ab.. The rockpile in your garage is taller than you are. ac.. You have a strong opinion as to whether pieces of concrete are properly called "rocks". ad.. The local university's geology department requests permission to hold field trips in your back yard. ae.. You associate the name "Franklin" with New Jersey instead of "Ben". af.. There's amethyst in your aquarium. ag.. Your wife has ever had to ask you to move flats of rocks out of the tub so she could take a bath. ah.. Your spelling checker has a vocabulary that includes the words "polymorph" and "pseudomorph". ai.. Your children are named Rocky, Jewel, and Beryl. aj.. You were the only member of the group who spent their time looking at cathedral walls through a pocket magnifier during your trip to Europe. ak.. They won't give you time off from work to attend the Tucson Gem and Mineral Show and you go anyway. al.. You begin fussing because the light strips you installed on your bookshelves aren't full spectrum. am.. You've ever purchased an individual, unfaceted rock, regardless of the price. an.. You've ever spent more than ten dollars for a book about rocks. ao.. You shouted "Obsidian!" to a theater full of movie-goers while watching "The Shawshank Redemption". ap.. The polished slab on your bola tie is six inches in diameter. aq.. You find yourself compelled to examine individual rocks in driveway gravel. ar.. The USGS identifies your collection as a major contributing factor to isostasy in your state. as.. You know the location of every rock shop within a 100 mile radius of your home. at.. When they haven't seen you for a week, the shop owners send you get well cards. au.. You're retired and still thinking of adding another room to your house. av.. Your idea of a "quiet, romantic evening at home" involves blue mineral tack and thumbnail boxes. aw.. You're planning on using a pick and shovel while you're on vacation. ax.. You can point out where Tsumeb is on a world globe. ay.. You think Franklin, New Jersey might be a cool place to go on a vacation. az.. You associate the word "saw" with diamonds instead of "wood". ba.. You begin wondering what a complete set of the Mineralogical Record is worth. bb.. When you find out, you actually consider paying it. bc.. You've fabricated a backpack for your dog. bd.. You've installed more than one mineralogical database program on your computer. be.. The baggage handlers at the airport know you by name and refuse to help with your luggage. bf.. You receive a letter from the county informing you a landfill permit is required to put anymore rocks on your property. bg.. Your Internet home page has pictures of your rocks. bh.. There's a copy of Dana's Manual next to your toilet. bi.. You still think pet rocks are a pretty neat idea. bj.. You get excited when you discover a hardware store that stocks 16 pound sledge hammers and 5 foot long pry bars. bk.. You debate for months on the Internet concerning the relative advantages and drawbacks of vibratory verses drum tumblers. bl.. Your employer has asked you not to bring any more rocks to the office until they have time to reinforce the floor. bm.. You decide not to get married because you'd rather keep the rock. Thanks to rockhounds Mel Albright, Neil Auty, Richard Busch, Jenny Calloway, Paul Gilmore, John Hammack, Gene Hartstein, Max Hunt, Dan Imel, Tom Isenberg, Mariam Khaljani, Paul Kline, David Kraut, Martin Malahy, Daniel Russell, Mark Sexton, Cliff Vermont, Kelly Watkins, and Dave Watts for their contributions to this list! From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Tue Jul 27 07:01:22 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Tue Jul 27 06:58:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] You might be a rockhound if...... In-Reply-To: <000b01c4736c$42285c20$69b2950c@jessie> Message-ID: <200407271358.i6RDwAvO030113@bubbleator.drizzle.com> j.. Your kids bring you a "pretty stone" they've found, and you contrive to steal it. And you know you've done it. Don't lie. And it sits within arm's reach here at the office. It's a killer, 6" x 4" x 4" hunk of Thunder Bay amethyst. Jeff found this gunky looking chunk and said "Dad, can I have this?". "Sure", sez I. We bring it to the campground, clean off the usual muck, and WOW! The permission for permanent display was accompanied with "You can put it on your shelf, Dad, but you MUST tell everyone who found it!" And then.... I was getting a computer repaired (back when we didn't just chuck 'em out when they broke) and the parking lot dividers were filled with the usual Minnesota aggregate. A kid wanders into the shop with this rock. He asks his mom "What's this rock?" Of course, I had to wander over and take a look. It was an absolutely-to-die-for 5 inch laker. Beautiful banding. Solid. No cracks. *sigh* He still has it, I hope. GcB From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Jul 27 15:44:41 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jul 27 15:44:52 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Siderazot, or not? References: <003a01c472f9$e2050720$6402a8c0@axel><6.1.2.0.0.20040726084740.064a26b0@mail.aloha.net><00ea01c47346$0ec14a70$6402a8c0@axel> <6.1.2.0.0.20040726100628.064ada60@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <001401c4742b$51c90200$6402a8c0@axel> Hi Kitty, > The iridescence occurs for the most part on the surface. I have a few very > thin pieces that are iridescent on both sides, almost as if they are a > layer of different material that slipped off---like some of the "shelly > pahoehoe" that I described on Kreigh's website (2nd picture, at > http://Tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Minerals/FieldTrips.shtml ). I get the picture ;-))) > If you like, I'll send you some specimens to play with. Well, we could have a brainstorm over it at the MKA when we restart in September... It would be fun, wouldn't it? Some of us actually enjoy a good puzzle now and then ;-))) Yes, please do (if you have the time!) Thanks in advance Axel From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Jul 27 17:02:13 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Jul 27 16:56:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Organized Sampling of the World Message-ID: <4106EB99.16C@Tomaszewski.net> The Degree Confluence Project is working to visit each latitude and longitude integer degree intersection on the Earth and post pictures of each location on the Internet. They still have thousands of points left, but already 152 countries are represented. If you are out collecting near a latitude/longitude intersection you might want to take a side trip and contribute a picture. Details are at http://www.confluence.org BTW, their disclaimer on the 'how to visit a confluence' page might be useful for those describing collecting locations in newsletters or their own websites. It does a nice job of targeting personal responsibility. Enjoy! Kreigh From LarryRush at worldnet.att.net Tue Jul 27 12:20:04 2004 From: LarryRush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Tue Jul 27 17:05:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bunker Hill mine Message-ID: <000201c47436$50055800$23914c0c@fekib> Does anyone know if Bob Hopper still works the Bunker Hill mine, and if so, how I might get in touch with him? Thanks.......Larry Rush www.ConnRoxMinerals.com www.mineralstotrade.homestead.com "Noel Coward thought work was more fun than play, but he never, ever worked in the mines" --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From ki3u at hotmail.com Tue Jul 27 19:45:25 2004 From: ki3u at hotmail.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Tue Jul 27 19:45:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Organized Sampling of the World Message-ID: Nice info! Thanks Kreigh. Berj >From: Kreigh Tomaszewski >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: [Rockhounds] An Organized Sampling of the World >Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 20:02:13 -0400 > >The Degree Confluence Project is working to visit each latitude and >longitude integer degree intersection on the Earth and post pictures of >each location on the Internet. > >They still have thousands of points left, but already 152 countries are >represented. If you are out collecting near a latitude/longitude >intersection you might want to take a side trip and contribute a >picture. > >Details are at http://www.confluence.org > >BTW, their disclaimer on the 'how to visit a confluence' page might be _________________________________________________________________ Planning a family vacation? Check out the MSN Family Travel guide! http://dollar.msn.com From JDMeissner at aol.com Fri Jul 23 17:51:57 2004 From: JDMeissner at aol.com (JDMeissner@aol.com) Date: Tue Jul 27 20:01:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Could this be a "petrified" soft-body of a gastropod or seahare? Message-ID: I bought a rock at a garage sale. I believe I found what probably is extremely rare. It appears to be a 3-dimensional fossil of the soft-body of a gastropod or perhaps even a sea-hare. I am not a scientist nor an artist (see drawing below). Nor am I someone who knows anything about rocks. What I think I have is a piece of crystal quartz. One side is polished; the other side is rough and natural, crystallized rock. The rock is opaque. The "body" is white and opaque while the area around it is darker and opaque. I would say that 3/4 of the rock (not counting the body) has very few "inclusions" and is rather clear opaque material. The skin of the "gastropod" is mottled with tiny dot patterns. The view is from underneath the "gastropod". It is possible to even see through the body and see some areas of skin and see the same pattern underneath as viewed from outside the skin. How fortunate that part of the skin if folded underneath the body. I think it is amazing that whoever cut the rock happened to cut it almost perfectly so that the bottom of the gastropod can be seen so clearly; and amazing to see a 3-dimensional soft-bodied animal fossilized. I would love it if this rock could be photographed and shared with the lapidary and scientific communities if it is of any interest to them. On the left (in the photo) is at least one dark "tube" which retains its tubular form as seen on the back rough side of the rock. Jim Meissner, Ashland, Oregon --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg image/jpeg --- From pchil at botsnet.bw Mon Jul 19 21:52:10 2004 From: pchil at botsnet.bw (P.C. Hulley) Date: Tue Jul 27 20:06:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] You might be a rockhound if...... References: <9.2f0682d4.2e350430@aol.com> <003301c4725c$5e01f200$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <000501c46ed0$095c18a0$e948a7a8@hulley> I actually had three cats at one stage, Agate, a small round grey tabby rather like one of the agates from Luderitz beach in Namibia: Amber, a predominantly ginger tortoise shell: and Jasper a predominantly black tortoise shell. Three little orphans from an anti-cruelty society. Their names raised many eyebrows! Hildagarde Hulley in Botswana. > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Jul 27 20:32:30 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Jul 27 20:26:06 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Could this be a "petrified" soft-body of a gastropod or seahare? References: Message-ID: <41071CC4.7960@Tomaszewski.net> Jim, You can't post attachments (to stop viri and other nasties) to the list. I hope you can post a website link where we can see it; if not, please send it to me off-list. It sounds like a unique fossil, and I would like to see a picture. I hope you seek out a local college and give them an opportunity to see and research the specimen. Kreigh JDMeissner@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > I bought a rock at a garage sale. I believe I found what probably is > extremely rare. It appears to be a 3-dimensional fossil of the soft-body of a > gastropod or perhaps even a sea-hare. I am not a scientist nor an artist (see > drawing below). Nor am I someone who knows anything about rocks. What I think I > have is a piece of crystal quartz. One side is polished; the other side is > rough and natural, crystallized rock. The rock is opaque. The "body" is white and > opaque while the area around it is darker and opaque. I would say that 3/4 > of the rock (not counting the body) has very few "inclusions" and is rather > clear opaque material. > The skin of the "gastropod" is mottled with tiny dot patterns. The view > is from underneath the "gastropod". It is possible to even see through the > body and see some areas of skin and see the same pattern underneath as viewed > from outside the skin. How fortunate that part of the skin if folded > underneath the body. > > I think it is amazing that whoever cut the rock happened to cut it almost > perfectly so that the bottom of the gastropod can be seen so clearly; and > amazing to see a 3-dimensional soft-bodied animal fossilized. > > I would love it if this rock could be photographed and shared with the > lapidary and scientific communities if it is of any interest to them. > > > On the left (in the photo) is at least one dark "tube" which retains its > tubular form as seen on the back rough side of the rock. > > Jim Meissner, Ashland, Oregon > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/related > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > image/jpeg > image/jpeg > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From mosasaur47 at msn.com Tue Jul 27 20:39:02 2004 From: mosasaur47 at msn.com (Kenneth Quinn) Date: Tue Jul 27 20:40:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] You might be a rockhound if...... References: <9.2f0682d4.2e350430@aol.com><003301c4725c$5e01f200$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> <000501c46ed0$095c18a0$e948a7a8@hulley> Message-ID: > I actually had three cats at one stage, Agate, a small round grey tabby > rather like one of the agates from Luderitz beach in Namibia: Amber, a > predominantly ginger tortoise shell: and Jasper a predominantly black > tortoise shell. Three little orphans from an anti-cruelty society. > Their names raised many eyebrows! Some of the cats I have had: Agate - a black and white Jade - black, mother of Agate and Galena Galena - a gray cat, of course. Onyx - black Tourmaline - gray, but it sounded good! Kenneth Quinn From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Jul 27 20:59:37 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Jul 27 20:53:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Siderazot, or not? References: <003a01c472f9$e2050720$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: <4107231D.1DBA@Tomaszewski.net> >From what I've seen/read, a fresh lava surface tends to harden and float, making a crust/tube for the lava flow. When it breaks out of the tube it pushes the crust aside and flows thru the gap. Freshly hardened lava tends to be silver, which ages to black or iradescent (usually blueish/whiteish). It appears to be due to an oxidation of the surface layer exposed to the air. Kreigh Axel Emmermann wrote: > > OK, seriously, I' ve been thinking... (ouch) > The siderazote thread was a great outlet for some great technical > explanations. > But do you need it to explain the iridescence of the cooled lava? > The following thought-experiment was inspired by looking at Venetian glass. > > Imagine a flow of very liquid lava like the kind we see on Hawaii. > While it flows, it cools on the surface forming a thin skin of solidified > lava. This skin is not strong and rigid enough to withstand the friction of > the flow below, so it wrinkles and folds and breaks into very thin > fragments. > Imagine those fragments being mixed with the flow again. The top and sides > of the flow are coldest and already on the verge of solidifying. There, the > splinters of "skin" may not melt again so that we have two phases in the > parts of the lavaflow that are solidifying. > As the flow gets more and more syrupy, I can imagine that the fragments of > "skin" in it break up further and become spatially polarized, just like > domino tiles would in a flow of molasses. > Ultimately, you would get a glassy substance with highly parallel inclusions > of the same but oxidized material. If these inclusions are packed together > close enough, you might very well see the same iridescence as described by > Kitty. > Why then blue and no other colors? > Hmm, blue light is scattered more easily than the other colors? > > Maybe just a silly thought but a close look with a strong microscope (SEM?) > might reveal the existence of such inclusions. > > Cheers > > Axel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Maurice de Graaf" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 12:51 AM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) and digital camera > > > Hi all, > > > > To finish the siderazot thread below is a link to my 'most possible' > > siderazot. It looks different to iridiscent lava, because the surrounding > > lava is not iridiscent at all. > > > > http://www.mindat.org/picshow.php?id=19222 > > > > And for the digital photo question. This picture was taken with a Coolpix > > 4500 at the standard macro mode. It is merely a snapshot. No tripod or > > fixture, just out of my hand while I badly need to go to sleep at this > hour > > :-)) The picture is not enhanced, only reduced in size. Camera picture > > quality was set 'fine' (1600x1200), focal length 16.2mm, 1/52.7 sec, > f/3.5, > > autofocus on and no digital zoom. > > > > cheers, > > Maurice > > > > PS rightnow mindat seems a bit crowded and slow..... > > From lanny at lrream.com Tue Jul 27 22:52:04 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Tue Jul 27 22:51:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Crescent Mine, Olympic Peninsula, Washington In-Reply-To: <003401c47337$69dca580$6401a8c0@Junior> References: <4104044E.6010702@tenforward.com><003001c4727e$8b5892a0$6401a8c0@Junior> <8E7D881C-DF26-11D8-A99C-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <003401c47337$69dca580$6401a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <40A6DCD5-E05A-11D8-A99C-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi Tim, I don't believe I've ever heard of a case against someone who told someone else about a collecting locality being held liable. Guides and tour directors who actually took someone to a place or on a trip perhaps, but I haven't heard of any suits involving this in any mineral-related jaunts being liable. I expect they might be if someone was hurt or killed on an organized/guided trip. The clubs certainly have taken the approach that they are liable. Considering that literature of all kinds is full of descriptions of areas and activities that are dangerous, I doubt that writers are liable. I've still never heard of any one who writes about any kind of location or activity being held liable for someone being injured or killed there. It isn't just mineral locations and mines. There are a lot more people injured and killed swimming, fishing, hiking, mountain climbing, etc. and magazines and newspapers are loaded with descriptions of recreation and vacation sites. Several people have died climbing Mt. Rainier in the last 10 years (this was a bad year for that), but I don't believe there have been any lawsuits against any of the climbing magazines that have had articles on climbing Mt. Rainier. So why would the author or publisher of an article on a mine be liable? I disagree on your difference between Disneyland and mine sites. People have been seriously injured and killed at Disneyland. I don't believe there have been any lawsuits against the travel writers who have written on what a great place it is. As to injuries at mines, I would like to see those statistics on "... people are killed by falling down mine shafts quite regularly ... ." Sorry, I don't agree, there have been comparatively few deaths by "casual visitors" and mineral collectors in old mines. Would someone please send me a list of the names of mineral collectors they know of who have been killed in a mine. I know of only two or three, I think. Only one of those can I actually name positively as having happened, but it seems like there have been a couple others in the magazines. Yes, a collector died when a bank collapsed in a hole he was digging at Crystal Park, MT and last year a guy digging a hole undercutting a few feet of dirt was killed when it caved in on him at the Lolo, MT diggings. But those aren't mines. A collector was seriously injured in a fall in a quarry in Tennessee one of the other fluorite districts a several years ago. But where are all these deaths in underground mines? It's like what happened in my neck of the woods. A few years ago, two guys in the 20s died in an old mine a few miles north of here. It was a freak accident. They suffocated because the mine (an old undergound limestone mine), which ran down into the mountain at a moderate angle was full of carbon dioxide because someone had built a fire in the entrance. When this happened, the local paper was loaded with articles on how incredibly dangerous old mines are. This went on for a year or more, because the Forest Service then went on an active program of putting gates on abandoned mines or blasting them shut. But the truth of the matter is, old mines are not really that dangerous, as evidenced by the number of deaths. I offer as evidence the fact the mine in which the two guys died was visited hundreds to thousands of times per year by the curious public. It is a large opening on the shore of a large lake, easily visited by boat with a nice area in front to picnic. It had been there for nearly 100 years, and no one was reportedly injured or died prior to these two even with those thousands of person visits of the century. Now consider that same summer that the two guys died in the mine, 6 people drowned in northern Idaho during various recreation activities. No one wrote extensive newspaper articles that we should stop swimming, boating, fishing, etc. Also consider on top of that, no one has given me any information on any deaths of "casual visitors" to any of the thousands of old abandoned mines in Idaho (I do have one reference, no documentation, date or anything that there supposedly was one death in southern Idaho many years ago). Which activities are the most dangerous? Apparently not visits to old mines by the general public if one goes by the statistics. I asked the Colorado collectors and was told "there have been a few," but no one has any real info. That's a few, over the past 100 years in a state loaded with thousands of old mines, many of them in very popular tourist areas and many of them easily accessible and most likely often visited by the public. Same thing for Montana. Yes, mines by their nature are dangerous, but the visitors to them are rarely seriously injured or killed. I really hope we don't have to quit writing about mineral localities because someone might sue us; that would destroy a lot of sharing of information and should be the end of all the mineral magazines. Regards, Lannyh On Jul 26, 2004, at 10:38 AM, Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: > Funny, Lanny, I was just wondering about your take on the issue, after > all > you've written. The difference between publicizing mine sites and > publicizing Disneyland is that people are killed by falling down mine > shafts > quite regularly - the risk is much, much greater. So is it > irresponsible to > publicize a place that is clearly dangerous? If it is irresponsible, > bingo, > you can be held liable for your actions. > > One might bear in mind that lawyers like blanket lawsuits. They name > everybody in a lawsuit, from the property owner to the guy that sold > an ice > cream to the "victim" before he broke his neck, whether they have a > case or > not. Which means you get to hire a lawyer at $300 an hour to defend > yourself > against absolutely nothing - hello bankruptcy. > > I started getting a little nervous after a discussion with a guy that > has > done a lot of research on the Madoc area, especially the Richardson > Mine, > the first gold mine in Ontario. The site of this mine is incredibly > dangerous, with poorly-covered open shafts galore, so he won't even > post a > picture of the place on his site. > > I'm thinking it's probably time for me to spend a few bucks on a phone > consultation with a lawyer, there doesn't seem to be any other way of > figuring this stuff out. It'd be nice if a club or federation with a > healthy > bank balance were to spend a few bucks on a legal opinion. > > I hope that the disclaimer I came up with for ontariominerals.com, > quoted > below, is sufficient. I don't know if one is absolved from liability by > pointing out the obvious dangers and telling people not to tresspass. > > IMPORTANT: Mineral localities listed on this website are not > necessarily open for collecting. Some are fee sites, open only on > specific > days of the week; some are active mines; and some have irate owners > who do > not take kindly to trespassers. Find out who owns the property and > whether > they allow collecting before you go pounding on any rocks. Those > foolish > enough to trespass on posted land or enter active mines or quarries > without > permission endanger themselves and may cause the permanant closure of > that > site. > > > > Again, I really don't want to get everybody all paranoid, I'm just > suggesting that it's something to think about. > > Cheers, > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lanny" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 1:09 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] The Crescent Mine, Olympic Peninsula, > Washington > > >> Hi Tim, >> >> That really scares me. We've all heard of all kinds of stories of >> someone being sued, and losing, over some incident where we can't >> understand why he was determined to be liable, but this one just isn't >> right. If this is true, then it will kill the guidebook business! If >> someone suggests that I visit Disney Land (not a chance) and I get >> injured there can I collect from the person who recommended it? How >> about if someone suggests I go camp at some lake in the mountains and >> I >> get hurt, can I collect on that one? >> >> Those aren't questions for you to answer of course, just rhetorical in >> nature. It's just that the thought that you are liable because you >> described a mine to someone is really scary! >> >> It's too bad the American courts (I don't know how bad this is in >> Canada) took on the role of removing personal liability from the >> individual and put it on the backs of everyone else. We all know we've >> lost a lot of collecting localities because of access being limited >> because of this liability issue, but for it to apply to mine >> descriptions is just too scary. Considering all the guidebooks I've >> written and published and the articles I've written and had >> published... >> >> Regards, >> >> Lanny >> >> >> On Jul 25, 2004, at 12:35 PM, Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: >> >>> Hey John, >>> >>> I'm wondering if you've looked into the liability issue surrounding a >>> post >>> like this? I've heard that if somebody reads something like this >>> online, >>> goes there, and breaks their neck, you are probably liable and can >>> get >>> hit >>> with a lawsuit that will more or less ruin your life. Advertising a >>> locality >>> with such exceedingly dangerous underground collecting seems a little >>> risky >>> to me, but I may just be paranoid. >>> >>> The issue is of great interest to me, as I'm working on pages on >>> geology/mineral/fossil/mining localities here in Ontario. Some are >>> highly >>> dangerous, with concealed shafts - and of course all field >>> collecting >>> has >>> certain inherent risks. I've written a disclaimer, but have no idea >>> if >>> it >>> gives me any legal protection. >>> >>> If there are any lawyers or insurance brokers in the house, or >>> anybody >>> with >>> knowledge about liability issues, please feel free to jump in. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com >>> Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com >>> The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com >>> Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "John and Gloria Cornish" >>> >>> snip >>>> Old wooden >>>> ladders and crib work around the collar of a manway ascended upwards >>>> beyond the light of the most powerful flashlights. The wood was >>>> water >>>> saturated, clammy and unhealthy to the touch with fungus and mold >>>> sliming its surface. A finger could be pressed through the rotten >>>> stuff >>>> with little effort and it was a wonder that they had not collapsed >>>> long >>>> ago under their own weight. >>> snip >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Jul 28 02:11:02 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Jul 28 02:11:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Siderazot, or not? References: <003a01c472f9$e2050720$6402a8c0@axel> <4107231D.1DBA@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <002301c47482$d1773ec0$6402a8c0@axel> Yes Kreigh, I saw the photos you posted on your site. 7 th photo "dome and toe": the crests of the wrinkles seem to become almost opaque while the folds still glow fierce. Given less feed and slightly more constant cooling something along the lines of what I proposed could happen, couldn't it? A real crust would be to thick for my purposes ;-))) I mean those darker orange patches that float on the fierce orange lava flow... a thin and still plastic skin, just the onset of solidification. Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 5:59 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Siderazot, or not? > >From what I've seen/read, a fresh lava surface tends to harden and > float, making a crust/tube for the lava flow. When it breaks out of the > tube it pushes the crust aside and flows thru the gap. Freshly hardened > lava tends to be silver, which ages to black or iradescent (usually > blueish/whiteish). It appears to be due to an oxidation of the surface > layer exposed to the air. > > Kreigh > > > > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > OK, seriously, I' ve been thinking... (ouch) > > The siderazote thread was a great outlet for some great technical > > explanations. > > But do you need it to explain the iridescence of the cooled lava? > > The following thought-experiment was inspired by looking at Venetian glass. > > > > Imagine a flow of very liquid lava like the kind we see on Hawaii. > > While it flows, it cools on the surface forming a thin skin of solidified > > lava. This skin is not strong and rigid enough to withstand the friction of > > the flow below, so it wrinkles and folds and breaks into very thin > > fragments. > > Imagine those fragments being mixed with the flow again. The top and sides > > of the flow are coldest and already on the verge of solidifying. There, the > > splinters of "skin" may not melt again so that we have two phases in the > > parts of the lavaflow that are solidifying. > > As the flow gets more and more syrupy, I can imagine that the fragments of > > "skin" in it break up further and become spatially polarized, just like > > domino tiles would in a flow of molasses. > > Ultimately, you would get a glassy substance with highly parallel inclusions > > of the same but oxidized material. If these inclusions are packed together > > close enough, you might very well see the same iridescence as described by > > Kitty. > > Why then blue and no other colors? > > Hmm, blue light is scattered more easily than the other colors? > > > > Maybe just a silly thought but a close look with a strong microscope (SEM?) > > might reveal the existence of such inclusions. > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Maurice de Graaf" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 12:51 AM > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) and digital camera > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > To finish the siderazot thread below is a link to my 'most possible' > > > siderazot. It looks different to iridiscent lava, because the surrounding > > > lava is not iridiscent at all. > > > > > > http://www.mindat.org/picshow.php?id=19222 > > > > > > And for the digital photo question. This picture was taken with a Coolpix > > > 4500 at the standard macro mode. It is merely a snapshot. No tripod or > > > fixture, just out of my hand while I badly need to go to sleep at this > > hour > > > :-)) The picture is not enhanced, only reduced in size. Camera picture > > > quality was set 'fine' (1600x1200), focal length 16.2mm, 1/52.7 sec, > > f/3.5, > > > autofocus on and no digital zoom. > > > > > > cheers, > > > Maurice > > > > > > PS rightnow mindat seems a bit crowded and slow..... > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From DOMMELEN at DAL.CA Wed Jul 28 07:12:41 2004 From: DOMMELEN at DAL.CA (Ronnie F Van Dommelen) Date: Wed Jul 28 07:12:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dana Reference Message-ID: <318536196.1091023961238.JavaMail.uportal@sxt-upt-1.UCIS.Dal.Ca> Hi All, I'm looking in Dana's System of Mineralogy Vol 2, 7th edition and there is a reference given as: Larsen (87, 1921) Is there an assumed journal? I cannot find anything written in the volume to explain the conventions used, and if it is implied, I do not know what it is. Any help would be much appreciated. Later, Ronnie Van Dommelen From rpr at nike.heidelberg.edu Wed Jul 28 07:34:00 2004 From: rpr at nike.heidelberg.edu (Pete Richards) Date: Wed Jul 28 07:34:05 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dana Reference In-Reply-To: <318536196.1091023961238.JavaMail.uportal@sxt-upt-1.UCIS.Dal.Ca> References: <318536196.1091023961238.JavaMail.uportal@sxt-upt-1.UCIS.Dal.Ca> Message-ID: The reference protocol for Dana's System 7th edition is arcane to say the least! It is explained (sort of) on page 47ff of the first volume. This particular reference and ones with a similar format are for books listed in the introduction, in this case to page 87 of "Larsen (1921) 'The Microscopic Identification of the Nonopaque Minerals', first edition by E.S. Larsen, U.S. Geological Survey Bulletin 679, 1921..." as listed on page 76 of the first volume. Keep that first volume handy... it has lots more in it than just species descriptions! Regards, Pete Richards >Hi All, > >I'm looking in Dana's System of Mineralogy Vol 2, 7th edition and there is a reference given as: >Larsen (87, 1921) >Is there an assumed journal? I cannot find anything written in the volume to explain the conventions used, and if it is implied, I do not know what it is. Any help would be much appreciated. > >Later, >Ronnie Van Dommelen >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh From tjokela at execulink.com Wed Jul 28 08:20:42 2004 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Wed Jul 28 08:20:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Crescent Mine, Olympic Peninsula, Washington References: <4104044E.6010702@tenforward.com><003001c4727e$8b5892a0$6401a8c0@Junior><8E7D881C-DF26-11D8-A99C-000393AC22E6@lrream.com><003401c47337$69dca580$6401a8c0@Junior> <40A6DCD5-E05A-11D8-A99C-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <001801c474b6$7256af50$6401a8c0@Junior> Well put, Lanny - thanks for making the wider context more apparent to me. I think the safety/disclaimer blurb I've got will be adequate. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 1:52 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] The Crescent Mine, Olympic Peninsula, Washington > Hi Tim, > > I don't believe I've ever heard of a case against someone who told > someone else about a collecting locality being held liable. Guides and > tour directors who actually took someone to a place or on a trip > perhaps, but I haven't heard of any suits involving this in any > mineral-related jaunts being liable. I expect they might be if someone > was hurt or killed on an organized/guided trip. The clubs certainly > have taken the approach that they are liable. > > Considering that literature of all kinds is full of descriptions of > areas and activities that are dangerous, I doubt that writers are > liable. I've still never heard of any one who writes about any kind of > location or activity being held liable for someone being injured or > killed there. It isn't just mineral locations and mines. There are a > lot more people injured and killed swimming, fishing, hiking, mountain > climbing, etc. and magazines and newspapers are loaded with > descriptions of recreation and vacation sites. Several people have died > climbing Mt. Rainier in the last 10 years (this was a bad year for > that), but I don't believe there have been any lawsuits against any of > the climbing magazines that have had articles on climbing Mt. Rainier. > So why would the author or publisher of an article on a mine be liable? > > I disagree on your difference between Disneyland and mine sites. People > have been seriously injured and killed at Disneyland. I don't believe > there have been any lawsuits against the travel writers who have > written on what a great place it is. As to injuries at mines, I would > like to see those statistics on "... people are killed by falling down > mine shafts quite regularly ... ." Sorry, I don't agree, there have > been comparatively few deaths by "casual visitors" and mineral > collectors in old mines. Would someone please send me a list of the > names of mineral collectors they know of who have been killed in a > mine. I know of only two or three, I think. Only one of those can I > actually name positively as having happened, but it seems like there > have been a couple others in the magazines. Yes, a collector died when > a bank collapsed in a hole he was digging at Crystal Park, MT and last > year a guy digging a hole undercutting a few feet of dirt was killed > when it caved in on him at the Lolo, MT diggings. But those aren't > mines. A collector was seriously injured in a fall in a quarry in > Tennessee one of the other fluorite districts a several years ago. But > where are all these deaths in underground mines? > > It's like what happened in my neck of the woods. A few years ago, two > guys in the 20s died in an old mine a few miles north of here. It was a > freak accident. They suffocated because the mine (an old undergound > limestone mine), which ran down into the mountain at a moderate angle > was full of carbon dioxide because someone had built a fire in the > entrance. When this happened, the local paper was loaded with articles > on how incredibly dangerous old mines are. This went on for a year or > more, because the Forest Service then went on an active program of > putting gates on abandoned mines or blasting them shut. > > But the truth of the matter is, old mines are not really that > dangerous, as evidenced by the number of deaths. I offer as evidence > the fact the mine in which the two guys died was visited hundreds to > thousands of times per year by the curious public. It is a large > opening on the shore of a large lake, easily visited by boat with a > nice area in front to picnic. It had been there for nearly 100 years, > and no one was reportedly injured or died prior to these two even with > those thousands of person visits of the century. > > Now consider that same summer that the two guys died in the mine, 6 > people drowned in northern Idaho during various recreation activities. > No one wrote extensive newspaper articles that we should stop swimming, > boating, fishing, etc. Also consider on top of that, no one has given > me any information on any deaths of "casual visitors" to any of the > thousands of old abandoned mines in Idaho (I do have one reference, no > documentation, date or anything that there supposedly was one death in > southern Idaho many years ago). Which activities are the most > dangerous? Apparently not visits to old mines by the general public if > one goes by the statistics. > > I asked the Colorado collectors and was told "there have been a few," > but no one has any real info. That's a few, over the past 100 years in > a state loaded with thousands of old mines, many of them in very > popular tourist areas and many of them easily accessible and most > likely often visited by the public. Same thing for Montana. Yes, mines > by their nature are dangerous, but the visitors to them are rarely > seriously injured or killed. > > I really hope we don't have to quit writing about mineral localities > because someone might sue us; that would destroy a lot of sharing of > information and should be the end of all the mineral magazines. > > Regards, > > Lannyh > > > > > On Jul 26, 2004, at 10:38 AM, Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: > > > Funny, Lanny, I was just wondering about your take on the issue, after > > all > > you've written. The difference between publicizing mine sites and > > publicizing Disneyland is that people are killed by falling down mine > > shafts > > quite regularly - the risk is much, much greater. So is it > > irresponsible to > > publicize a place that is clearly dangerous? If it is irresponsible, > > bingo, > > you can be held liable for your actions. > > > > One might bear in mind that lawyers like blanket lawsuits. They name > > everybody in a lawsuit, from the property owner to the guy that sold > > an ice > > cream to the "victim" before he broke his neck, whether they have a > > case or > > not. Which means you get to hire a lawyer at $300 an hour to defend > > yourself > > against absolutely nothing - hello bankruptcy. > > > > I started getting a little nervous after a discussion with a guy that > > has > > done a lot of research on the Madoc area, especially the Richardson > > Mine, > > the first gold mine in Ontario. The site of this mine is incredibly > > dangerous, with poorly-covered open shafts galore, so he won't even > > post a > > picture of the place on his site. > > > > I'm thinking it's probably time for me to spend a few bucks on a phone > > consultation with a lawyer, there doesn't seem to be any other way of > > figuring this stuff out. It'd be nice if a club or federation with a > > healthy > > bank balance were to spend a few bucks on a legal opinion. > > > > I hope that the disclaimer I came up with for ontariominerals.com, > > quoted > > below, is sufficient. I don't know if one is absolved from liability by > > pointing out the obvious dangers and telling people not to tresspass. > > > > IMPORTANT: Mineral localities listed on this website are not > > necessarily open for collecting. Some are fee sites, open only on > > specific > > days of the week; some are active mines; and some have irate owners > > who do > > not take kindly to trespassers. Find out who owns the property and > > whether > > they allow collecting before you go pounding on any rocks. Those > > foolish > > enough to trespass on posted land or enter active mines or quarries > > without > > permission endanger themselves and may cause the permanant closure of > > that > > site. > > > > > > > > Again, I really don't want to get everybody all paranoid, I'm just > > suggesting that it's something to think about. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lanny" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors" > > > > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 1:09 PM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] The Crescent Mine, Olympic Peninsula, > > Washington > > > > > >> Hi Tim, > >> > >> That really scares me. We've all heard of all kinds of stories of > >> someone being sued, and losing, over some incident where we can't > >> understand why he was determined to be liable, but this one just isn't > >> right. If this is true, then it will kill the guidebook business! If > >> someone suggests that I visit Disney Land (not a chance) and I get > >> injured there can I collect from the person who recommended it? How > >> about if someone suggests I go camp at some lake in the mountains and > >> I > >> get hurt, can I collect on that one? > >> > >> Those aren't questions for you to answer of course, just rhetorical in > >> nature. It's just that the thought that you are liable because you > >> described a mine to someone is really scary! > >> > >> It's too bad the American courts (I don't know how bad this is in > >> Canada) took on the role of removing personal liability from the > >> individual and put it on the backs of everyone else. We all know we've > >> lost a lot of collecting localities because of access being limited > >> because of this liability issue, but for it to apply to mine > >> descriptions is just too scary. Considering all the guidebooks I've > >> written and published and the articles I've written and had > >> published... > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Lanny > >> > >> > >> On Jul 25, 2004, at 12:35 PM, Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: > >> > >>> Hey John, > >>> > >>> I'm wondering if you've looked into the liability issue surrounding a > >>> post > >>> like this? I've heard that if somebody reads something like this > >>> online, > >>> goes there, and breaks their neck, you are probably liable and can > >>> get > >>> hit > >>> with a lawsuit that will more or less ruin your life. Advertising a > >>> locality > >>> with such exceedingly dangerous underground collecting seems a little > >>> risky > >>> to me, but I may just be paranoid. > >>> > >>> The issue is of great interest to me, as I'm working on pages on > >>> geology/mineral/fossil/mining localities here in Ontario. Some are > >>> highly > >>> dangerous, with concealed shafts - and of course all field > >>> collecting > >>> has > >>> certain inherent risks. I've written a disclaimer, but have no idea > >>> if > >>> it > >>> gives me any legal protection. > >>> > >>> If there are any lawyers or insurance brokers in the house, or > >>> anybody > >>> with > >>> knowledge about liability issues, please feel free to jump in. > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> > >>> Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > >>> Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > >>> The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > >>> Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "John and Gloria Cornish" > >>> > >>> snip > >>>> Old wooden > >>>> ladders and crib work around the collar of a manway ascended upwards > >>>> beyond the light of the most powerful flashlights. The wood was > >>>> water > >>>> saturated, clammy and unhealthy to the touch with fungus and mold > >>>> sliming its surface. A finger could be pressed through the rotten > >>>> stuff > >>>> with little effort and it was a wonder that they had not collapsed > >>>> long > >>>> ago under their own weight. > >>> snip > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >>> Subscription Services: > >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >>> > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From lanny at lrream.com Wed Jul 28 12:48:17 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Wed Jul 28 12:47:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Crescent Mine, Olympic Peninsula, Washington In-Reply-To: <001801c474b6$7256af50$6401a8c0@Junior> References: <4104044E.6010702@tenforward.com><003001c4727e$8b5892a0$6401a8c0@Junior><8E7D881C-DF26-11D8-A99C-000393AC22E6@lrream.com><003401c47337$69dca580$6401a8c0@Junior> <40A6DCD5-E05A-11D8-A99C-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <001801c474b6$7256af50$6401a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <12652B2F-E0CF-11D8-A99C-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Actually Tim, sometimes I think the only thing that is adequate these days considering what some of the lawyers like to do is to say nothing, write nothing, do nothing and forever be a victim, . Lanny On Jul 28, 2004, at 8:20 AM, Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: > Well put, Lanny - thanks for making the wider context more apparent to > me. I > think the safety/disclaimer blurb I've got will be adequate. > > Cheers, > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lanny" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 1:52 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] The Crescent Mine, Olympic Peninsula, > Washington > > >> Hi Tim, >> >> I don't believe I've ever heard of a case against someone who told >> someone else about a collecting locality being held liable. Guides and >> tour directors who actually took someone to a place or on a trip >> perhaps, but I haven't heard of any suits involving this in any >> mineral-related jaunts being liable. I expect they might be if someone >> was hurt or killed on an organized/guided trip. The clubs certainly >> have taken the approach that they are liable. >> >> Considering that literature of all kinds is full of descriptions of >> areas and activities that are dangerous, I doubt that writers are >> liable. I've still never heard of any one who writes about any kind of >> location or activity being held liable for someone being injured or >> killed there. It isn't just mineral locations and mines. There are a >> lot more people injured and killed swimming, fishing, hiking, mountain >> climbing, etc. and magazines and newspapers are loaded with >> descriptions of recreation and vacation sites. Several people have >> died >> climbing Mt. Rainier in the last 10 years (this was a bad year for >> that), but I don't believe there have been any lawsuits against any of >> the climbing magazines that have had articles on climbing Mt. Rainier. >> So why would the author or publisher of an article on a mine be >> liable? >> >> I disagree on your difference between Disneyland and mine sites. >> People >> have been seriously injured and killed at Disneyland. I don't believe >> there have been any lawsuits against the travel writers who have >> written on what a great place it is. As to injuries at mines, I would >> like to see those statistics on "... people are killed by falling down >> mine shafts quite regularly ... ." Sorry, I don't agree, there have >> been comparatively few deaths by "casual visitors" and mineral >> collectors in old mines. Would someone please send me a list of the >> names of mineral collectors they know of who have been killed in a >> mine. I know of only two or three, I think. Only one of those can I >> actually name positively as having happened, but it seems like there >> have been a couple others in the magazines. Yes, a collector died when >> a bank collapsed in a hole he was digging at Crystal Park, MT and last >> year a guy digging a hole undercutting a few feet of dirt was killed >> when it caved in on him at the Lolo, MT diggings. But those aren't >> mines. A collector was seriously injured in a fall in a quarry in >> Tennessee one of the other fluorite districts a several years ago. But >> where are all these deaths in underground mines? >> >> It's like what happened in my neck of the woods. A few years ago, two >> guys in the 20s died in an old mine a few miles north of here. It was >> a >> freak accident. They suffocated because the mine (an old undergound >> limestone mine), which ran down into the mountain at a moderate angle >> was full of carbon dioxide because someone had built a fire in the >> entrance. When this happened, the local paper was loaded with articles >> on how incredibly dangerous old mines are. This went on for a year or >> more, because the Forest Service then went on an active program of >> putting gates on abandoned mines or blasting them shut. >> >> But the truth of the matter is, old mines are not really that >> dangerous, as evidenced by the number of deaths. I offer as evidence >> the fact the mine in which the two guys died was visited hundreds to >> thousands of times per year by the curious public. It is a large >> opening on the shore of a large lake, easily visited by boat with a >> nice area in front to picnic. It had been there for nearly 100 years, >> and no one was reportedly injured or died prior to these two even with >> those thousands of person visits of the century. >> >> Now consider that same summer that the two guys died in the mine, 6 >> people drowned in northern Idaho during various recreation activities. >> No one wrote extensive newspaper articles that we should stop >> swimming, >> boating, fishing, etc. Also consider on top of that, no one has given >> me any information on any deaths of "casual visitors" to any of the >> thousands of old abandoned mines in Idaho (I do have one reference, no >> documentation, date or anything that there supposedly was one death in >> southern Idaho many years ago). Which activities are the most >> dangerous? Apparently not visits to old mines by the general public if >> one goes by the statistics. >> >> I asked the Colorado collectors and was told "there have been a few," >> but no one has any real info. That's a few, over the past 100 years in >> a state loaded with thousands of old mines, many of them in very >> popular tourist areas and many of them easily accessible and most >> likely often visited by the public. Same thing for Montana. Yes, mines >> by their nature are dangerous, but the visitors to them are rarely >> seriously injured or killed. >> >> I really hope we don't have to quit writing about mineral localities >> because someone might sue us; that would destroy a lot of sharing of >> information and should be the end of all the mineral magazines. >> >> Regards, >> >> Lannyh >> >> >> >> >> On Jul 26, 2004, at 10:38 AM, Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: >> >>> Funny, Lanny, I was just wondering about your take on the issue, >>> after >>> all >>> you've written. The difference between publicizing mine sites and >>> publicizing Disneyland is that people are killed by falling down mine >>> shafts >>> quite regularly - the risk is much, much greater. So is it >>> irresponsible to >>> publicize a place that is clearly dangerous? If it is irresponsible, >>> bingo, >>> you can be held liable for your actions. >>> >>> One might bear in mind that lawyers like blanket lawsuits. They name >>> everybody in a lawsuit, from the property owner to the guy that sold >>> an ice >>> cream to the "victim" before he broke his neck, whether they have a >>> case or >>> not. Which means you get to hire a lawyer at $300 an hour to defend >>> yourself >>> against absolutely nothing - hello bankruptcy. >>> >>> I started getting a little nervous after a discussion with a guy that >>> has >>> done a lot of research on the Madoc area, especially the Richardson >>> Mine, >>> the first gold mine in Ontario. The site of this mine is incredibly >>> dangerous, with poorly-covered open shafts galore, so he won't even >>> post a >>> picture of the place on his site. >>> >>> I'm thinking it's probably time for me to spend a few bucks on a >>> phone >>> consultation with a lawyer, there doesn't seem to be any other way of >>> figuring this stuff out. It'd be nice if a club or federation with a >>> healthy >>> bank balance were to spend a few bucks on a legal opinion. >>> >>> I hope that the disclaimer I came up with for ontariominerals.com, >>> quoted >>> below, is sufficient. I don't know if one is absolved from liability >>> by >>> pointing out the obvious dangers and telling people not to tresspass. >>> >>> IMPORTANT: Mineral localities listed on this website are not >>> necessarily open for collecting. Some are fee sites, open only on >>> specific >>> days of the week; some are active mines; and some have irate owners >>> who do >>> not take kindly to trespassers. Find out who owns the property and >>> whether >>> they allow collecting before you go pounding on any rocks. Those >>> foolish >>> enough to trespass on posted land or enter active mines or quarries >>> without >>> permission endanger themselves and may cause the permanant closure of >>> that >>> site. >>> >>> >>> >>> Again, I really don't want to get everybody all paranoid, I'm just >>> suggesting that it's something to think about. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com >>> Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com >>> The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com >>> Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Lanny" >>> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>> collectors" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 1:09 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] The Crescent Mine, Olympic Peninsula, >>> Washington >>> >>> >>>> Hi Tim, >>>> >>>> That really scares me. We've all heard of all kinds of stories of >>>> someone being sued, and losing, over some incident where we can't >>>> understand why he was determined to be liable, but this one just >>>> isn't >>>> right. If this is true, then it will kill the guidebook business! If >>>> someone suggests that I visit Disney Land (not a chance) and I get >>>> injured there can I collect from the person who recommended it? How >>>> about if someone suggests I go camp at some lake in the mountains >>>> and >>>> I >>>> get hurt, can I collect on that one? >>>> >>>> Those aren't questions for you to answer of course, just rhetorical >>>> in >>>> nature. It's just that the thought that you are liable because you >>>> described a mine to someone is really scary! >>>> >>>> It's too bad the American courts (I don't know how bad this is in >>>> Canada) took on the role of removing personal liability from the >>>> individual and put it on the backs of everyone else. We all know >>>> we've >>>> lost a lot of collecting localities because of access being limited >>>> because of this liability issue, but for it to apply to mine >>>> descriptions is just too scary. Considering all the guidebooks I've >>>> written and published and the articles I've written and had >>>> published... >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Lanny >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jul 25, 2004, at 12:35 PM, Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hey John, >>>>> >>>>> I'm wondering if you've looked into the liability issue >>>>> surrounding a >>>>> post >>>>> like this? I've heard that if somebody reads something like this >>>>> online, >>>>> goes there, and breaks their neck, you are probably liable and can >>>>> get >>>>> hit >>>>> with a lawsuit that will more or less ruin your life. Advertising a >>>>> locality >>>>> with such exceedingly dangerous underground collecting seems a >>>>> little >>>>> risky >>>>> to me, but I may just be paranoid. >>>>> >>>>> The issue is of great interest to me, as I'm working on pages on >>>>> geology/mineral/fossil/mining localities here in Ontario. Some are >>>>> highly >>>>> dangerous, with concealed shafts - and of course all field >>>>> collecting >>>>> has >>>>> certain inherent risks. I've written a disclaimer, but have no idea >>>>> if >>>>> it >>>>> gives me any legal protection. >>>>> >>>>> If there are any lawyers or insurance brokers in the house, or >>>>> anybody >>>>> with >>>>> knowledge about liability issues, please feel free to jump in. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> >>>>> Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com >>>>> Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com >>>>> The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com >>>>> Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "John and Gloria Cornish" >>>>> >>>>> snip >>>>>> Old wooden >>>>>> ladders and crib work around the collar of a manway ascended >>>>>> upwards >>>>>> beyond the light of the most powerful flashlights. The wood was >>>>>> water >>>>>> saturated, clammy and unhealthy to the touch with fungus and mold >>>>>> sliming its surface. A finger could be pressed through the rotten >>>>>> stuff >>>>>> with little effort and it was a wonder that they had not collapsed >>>>>> long >>>>>> ago under their own weight. >>>>> snip >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>>>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>>>> Subscription Services: >>>>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>>> Subscription Services: >>>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From lanny at lrream.com Wed Jul 28 12:50:57 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Wed Jul 28 12:50:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bunker Hill mine In-Reply-To: <000201c47436$50055800$23914c0c@fekib> References: <000201c47436$50055800$23914c0c@fekib> Message-ID: <714E4F81-E0CF-11D8-A99C-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi Larry, Bob Hopper still mines the Bunker Hill Mine, but they worked through the pyromorphite zone a few years ago. There hasn't been anything significant found since. The phone number at the mine is 208-786-9891. Regards, Lanny On Jul 27, 2004, at 12:20 PM, Lawrence Rush wrote: > Does anyone know if Bob Hopper still works the Bunker Hill mine, and > if so, how I might get in touch with him? > > Thanks.......Larry Rush > > > www.ConnRoxMinerals.com > www.mineralstotrade.homestead.com > > > "Noel Coward thought work was more fun than play, > but he never, ever worked in the mines" > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jul 28 20:55:28 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jul 28 20:45:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Siderazot, or not? References: <003a01c472f9$e2050720$6402a8c0@axel> <4107231D.1DBA@Tomaszewski.net> <002301c47482$d1773ec0$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: <410872E6.499D@Tomaszewski.net> Axel, Volcano World's FAQ (URL may wrap) at http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vwdocs/frequent_questions/grp1/question3753.html reports that the iridesence in pahoehoe is caused by numerous parallel thin layers of glass. They give the analogy of an oil slick on a wet road. Short and sweet (but its a fun website you could lose hours at). Other educational and government websites I found offered the same explanation (though some said simply a thin layer of glass). None I found explained how the thin layer(s) formed, or gave references for their answer. This may be one of those commonly accepted 'facts' begging for new research to provide the real story. Someone once looked at the physical attributes causing the iridesence and made a fact of its physical cause. Omitted was how the physical conditions formed. I think they call that an exercise for the student. Forgive me for doing a little thinking aloud (at least as fast as my typewronging skills allow)... I note in my limited samples that iridesence is much more likely on surfaces that appear to have been stretched. Stretching would help produce parallel layers, and I don't think what is stretched always needs to be layered originally since temp, pressure/tension, and atmosphere gradients are closely aligned in surface stretching. However, I have some examples where stretching doesn't seem to apply at all. Your idea sounds like it could be key to an explanation of the formation of multiple layers. A way to form multiple layers eliminates a requirement for stretching, while giving it a better chance of success. Thin film deposition on existing crust by exhausted vapors is a known cause of iridesence. I expect surface microconditions, flow composition, and exposure to the air, to affect the surfaces produced because of deposition effects. I'm sorta thinking about how Al forms a thin oxide layer in the atmosphere that mostly protects it from further chemical erosion, and that the lava gasses must contribute in that wierd environment, but I expect this to be a small (though possibly major) factor. The crust that forms is often/usually full of expanded (micro) vapor bubbles liberated from the gas in solution with the molten lava as its state changed through plastic to solid. It has a lower specific gravity and floats in lava. Turbulence would cause just about anything floating on such a surface to get an occasional immersion. If you dip a layer of oxidized/nitrated/aired hardened lava in hot lava do you get a thin coat, like dipping a candle in hot wax, that can form another changed layer when it bobs back to the surface? How hot is that lava? How regular are the layers? Do chemical bonds change when it hardened so the structure is less affected by heat? I think you are well started as you have a plausable place to begin an exploration into the cause of iridesence in pahoehoe. I look forward to hearing about your progress. Kreigh P.S., If you are VERY _Seriously_ up to "Do _NOT_ Try This At Home!" experiments, it is not very difficult to make a carbon arc furnace for melting your own small batches of lava to experiment with. _YOU_ are responsible for your own, SAFE, breathing air if you are crazy enough to even think of trying this.. A couple firebricks, an extension cord, a few batteries, some 1/4 inch (copper) plumbing pipe, lye, a large (pyrex) glass container, water, a switch, a few boards and nails, some high temp electrical tape, proper UV (welding) protection, proper gloves, some other very common stuff, ...and more than a clue of what you are getting into on your _OWN_ responsibility. Soldering iron is optional (but suggested); other tools assumed (give up now if you can't name them). All "Online", and any "Off-Line", questions not showing a very GOOD understanding _WILL_ be ignored; any responses will be off-line. THIS _REALLY_ IS _NOT_ SAFE! -KT Axel Emmermann wrote: > > Yes Kreigh, > > I saw the photos you posted on your site. > 7 th photo "dome and toe": the crests of the wrinkles seem to become almost > opaque while the folds still glow fierce. Given less feed and slightly more > constant cooling something along the lines of what I proposed could happen, > couldn't it? > A real crust would be to thick for my purposes ;-))) > I mean those darker orange patches that float on the fierce orange lava > flow... a thin and still plastic skin, just the onset of solidification. > > Cheers > > Axel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 5:59 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Siderazot, or not? > > > >From what I've seen/read, a fresh lava surface tends to harden and > > float, making a crust/tube for the lava flow. When it breaks out of the > > tube it pushes the crust aside and flows thru the gap. Freshly hardened > > lava tends to be silver, which ages to black or iradescent (usually > > blueish/whiteish). It appears to be due to an oxidation of the surface > > layer exposed to the air. > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > > > OK, seriously, I' ve been thinking... (ouch) > > > The siderazote thread was a great outlet for some great technical > > > explanations. > > > But do you need it to explain the iridescence of the cooled lava? > > > The following thought-experiment was inspired by looking at Venetian > glass. > > > > > > Imagine a flow of very liquid lava like the kind we see on Hawaii. > > > While it flows, it cools on the surface forming a thin skin of > solidified > > > lava. This skin is not strong and rigid enough to withstand the friction > of > > > the flow below, so it wrinkles and folds and breaks into very thin > > > fragments. > > > Imagine those fragments being mixed with the flow again. The top and > sides > > > of the flow are coldest and already on the verge of solidifying. There, > the > > > splinters of "skin" may not melt again so that we have two phases in the > > > parts of the lavaflow that are solidifying. > > > As the flow gets more and more syrupy, I can imagine that the fragments > of > > > "skin" in it break up further and become spatially polarized, just like > > > domino tiles would in a flow of molasses. > > > Ultimately, you would get a glassy substance with highly parallel > inclusions > > > of the same but oxidized material. If these inclusions are packed > together > > > close enough, you might very well see the same iridescence as described > by > > > Kitty. > > > Why then blue and no other colors? > > > Hmm, blue light is scattered more easily than the other colors? > > > > > > Maybe just a silly thought but a close look with a strong microscope > (SEM?) > > > might reveal the existence of such inclusions. > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > Axel > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Maurice de Graaf" > > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > > > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 12:51 AM > > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) and digital > camera > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > To finish the siderazot thread below is a link to my 'most possible' > > > > siderazot. It looks different to iridiscent lava, because the > surrounding > > > > lava is not iridiscent at all. > > > > > > > > http://www.mindat.org/picshow.php?id=19222 > > > > > > > > And for the digital photo question. This picture was taken with a > Coolpix > > > > 4500 at the standard macro mode. It is merely a snapshot. No tripod or > > > > fixture, just out of my hand while I badly need to go to sleep at this > > > hour > > > > :-)) The picture is not enhanced, only reduced in size. Camera picture > > > > quality was set 'fine' (1600x1200), focal length 16.2mm, 1/52.7 sec, > > > f/3.5, > > > > autofocus on and no digital zoom. > > > > > > > > cheers, > > > > Maurice > > > > > > > > PS rightnow mindat seems a bit crowded and slow..... > > > > From kahako at aloha.net Wed Jul 28 22:22:06 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Jul 28 21:55:54 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Siderazot, or not? In-Reply-To: <410872E6.499D@Tomaszewski.net> References: <003a01c472f9$e2050720$6402a8c0@axel> <4107231D.1DBA@Tomaszewski.net> <002301c47482$d1773ec0$6402a8c0@axel> <410872E6.499D@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040728185755.03229eb0@mail.aloha.net> Kreigh, you never cease to astonish me at the breadth of your knowledge! Regarding your observation that "iridescence is much more likely on surfaces that appear to have been stretched," I agree that the ones I observe which show blue, gold, yellow, or blue-and-yellow, do appear to be stretched. But the ones that are multicolored appear to have formed with bubbles---small concave dimples about 1mm in diameter, closely clustered together. I don't think I've seen a multicolored one that appears stretched (though I'm not sure). Aloha, Kitty At 05:55 PM 7/28/2004, you wrote: >Axel, > >Volcano World's FAQ (URL may wrap) at > > >http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vwdocs/frequent_questions/grp1/question3753.html > >reports that the iridesence in pahoehoe is caused by numerous parallel >thin layers of glass. They give the analogy of an oil slick on a wet >road. Short and sweet (but its a fun website you could lose hours at). > >Other educational and government websites I found offered the same >explanation (though some said simply a thin layer of glass). None I >found explained how the thin layer(s) formed, or gave references for >their answer. > >This may be one of those commonly accepted 'facts' begging for new >research to provide the real story. Someone once looked at the physical >attributes causing the iridesence and made a fact of its physical cause. > >Omitted was how the physical conditions formed. I think they call that >an exercise for the student. > >Forgive me for doing a little thinking aloud (at least as fast as my >typewronging skills allow)... > >I note in my limited samples that iridesence is much more likely on >surfaces that appear to have been stretched. Stretching would help >produce parallel layers, and I don't think what is stretched always >needs to be layered originally since temp, pressure/tension, and >atmosphere gradients are closely aligned in surface stretching. > >However, I have some examples where stretching doesn't seem to apply at >all. Your idea sounds like it could be key to an explanation of the >formation of multiple layers. A way to form multiple layers eliminates a >requirement for stretching, while giving it a better chance of success. > >Thin film deposition on existing crust by exhausted vapors is a known >cause of iridesence. I expect surface microconditions, flow composition, >and exposure to the air, to affect the surfaces produced because of >deposition effects. I'm sorta thinking about how Al forms a thin oxide >layer in the atmosphere that mostly protects it from further chemical >erosion, and that the lava gasses must contribute in that wierd >environment, but I expect this to be a small (though possibly major) >factor. > >The crust that forms is often/usually full of expanded (micro) vapor >bubbles liberated from the gas in solution with the molten lava as its >state changed through plastic to solid. It has a lower specific gravity >and floats in lava. Turbulence would cause just about anything floating >on such a surface to get an occasional immersion. > >If you dip a layer of oxidized/nitrated/aired hardened lava in hot lava >do you get a thin coat, like dipping a candle in hot wax, that can form >another changed layer when it bobs back to the surface? How hot is that >lava? How regular are the layers? Do chemical bonds change when it >hardened so the structure is less affected by heat? > > > >I think you are well started as you have a plausable place to begin an >exploration into the cause of iridesence in pahoehoe. I look forward to >hearing about your progress. > >Kreigh > > >P.S., If you are VERY _Seriously_ up to "Do _NOT_ Try This At Home!" >experiments, it is not very difficult to make a carbon arc furnace for >melting your own small batches of lava to experiment with. >_YOU_ are responsible for your own, SAFE, breathing air if you are crazy >enough to even think of trying this.. >A couple firebricks, an extension cord, a few batteries, some 1/4 inch >(copper) plumbing pipe, lye, a large (pyrex) glass container, water, a >switch, a few boards and nails, some high temp electrical tape, proper >UV (welding) protection, proper gloves, some other very common stuff, >...and more than a clue of what you are getting into on your _OWN_ >responsibility. >Soldering iron is optional (but suggested); other tools assumed (give up >now if you can't name them). >All "Online", and any "Off-Line", questions not showing a very GOOD >understanding _WILL_ be ignored; any responses will be off-line. > >THIS _REALLY_ IS _NOT_ SAFE! > >-KT > > > > > > >Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > Yes Kreigh, > > > > I saw the photos you posted on your site. > > 7 th photo "dome and toe": the crests of the wrinkles seem to become almost > > opaque while the folds still glow fierce. Given less feed and slightly more > > constant cooling something along the lines of what I proposed could happen, > > couldn't it? > > A real crust would be to thick for my purposes ;-))) > > I mean those darker orange patches that float on the fierce orange lava > > flow... a thin and still plastic skin, just the onset of solidification. > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 5:59 AM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Siderazot, or not? > > > > > >From what I've seen/read, a fresh lava surface tends to harden and > > > float, making a crust/tube for the lava flow. When it breaks out of the > > > tube it pushes the crust aside and flows thru the gap. Freshly hardened > > > lava tends to be silver, which ages to black or iradescent (usually > > > blueish/whiteish). It appears to be due to an oxidation of the surface > > > layer exposed to the air. > > > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > > > > > OK, seriously, I' ve been thinking... (ouch) > > > > The siderazote thread was a great outlet for some great technical > > > > explanations. > > > > But do you need it to explain the iridescence of the cooled lava? > > > > The following thought-experiment was inspired by looking at Venetian > > glass. > > > > > > > > Imagine a flow of very liquid lava like the kind we see on Hawaii. > > > > While it flows, it cools on the surface forming a thin skin of > > solidified > > > > lava. This skin is not strong and rigid enough to withstand the > friction > > of > > > > the flow below, so it wrinkles and folds and breaks into very thin > > > > fragments. > > > > Imagine those fragments being mixed with the flow again. The top and > > sides > > > > of the flow are coldest and already on the verge of solidifying. There, > > the > > > > splinters of "skin" may not melt again so that we have two phases > in the > > > > parts of the lavaflow that are solidifying. > > > > As the flow gets more and more syrupy, I can imagine that the fragments > > of > > > > "skin" in it break up further and become spatially polarized, just like > > > > domino tiles would in a flow of molasses. > > > > Ultimately, you would get a glassy substance with highly parallel > > inclusions > > > > of the same but oxidized material. If these inclusions are packed > > together > > > > close enough, you might very well see the same iridescence as described > > by > > > > Kitty. > > > > Why then blue and no other colors? > > > > Hmm, blue light is scattered more easily than the other colors? > > > > > > > > Maybe just a silly thought but a close look with a strong microscope > > (SEM?) > > > > might reveal the existence of such inclusions. > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > Axel > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Maurice de Graaf" > > > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 12:51 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] iridescence (siderazot on lava) and digital > > camera > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > To finish the siderazot thread below is a link to my 'most possible' > > > > > siderazot. It looks different to iridiscent lava, because the > > surrounding > > > > > lava is not iridiscent at all. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.mindat.org/picshow.php?id=19222 > > > > > > > > > > And for the digital photo question. This picture was taken with a > > Coolpix > > > > > 4500 at the standard macro mode. It is merely a snapshot. No > tripod or > > > > > fixture, just out of my hand while I badly need to go to sleep at > this > > > > hour > > > > > :-)) The picture is not enhanced, only reduced in size. Camera > picture > > > > > quality was set 'fine' (1600x1200), focal length 16.2mm, 1/52.7 sec, > > > > f/3.5, > > > > > autofocus on and no digital zoom. > > > > > > > > > > cheers, > > > > > Maurice > > > > > > > > > > PS rightnow mindat seems a bit crowded and slow..... > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From CrescentStoneINC at aol.com Thu Jul 29 06:55:15 2004 From: CrescentStoneINC at aol.com (CrescentStoneINC@aol.com) Date: Thu Jul 29 06:55:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free sample of beautiful fossilized stromatolite stone. Message-ID: <45.11c8546b.2e3a5bc3@aol.com> From: Crescent Stone Company We are offering free samples to sellers or collectors of rough stone, and finished we are embarking on what we feel will be the marketing of the next big thing in beautiful fossilized stone. If you feel you could market this product please Email your shipping address and UPS shipper number if applicable, so we can ship free sample you pay only for shipping. This organism created the first oxygen on Earth as well as being between 1.7-3.5 billion years old. We are now in the process of making an educational film about this fossil as well as in contact will Smithsonian as to their planned new wing on the most important and beautiful fossil on Earth, Stromatolite (algal) Stone. The quality ranges from construction grade to jewelry grade. You can go to http://www.crescentstone.com/ for geologist authentication. When you reply to free offer please explain your use so we can send correct sample. Sample will be about size 2.5"x2.5". You will be responsible for UPS shipping not handling. Sincerely; Steve DeLong/Owner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From BNMJEFF at aol.com Thu Jul 29 10:05:55 2004 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Thu Jul 29 10:06:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free sample of beautiful fossilized stromatolite stone. Message-ID: <143.2f119d8c.2e3a8873@aol.com> I would love a sample. I have heard a lot about it, but never seen it other than in pictures. SHip to Jeff Ursillo Bob's Printing 181 SE 5th Ave Delray Beach FL 33483 UPS shipper number X9X 795 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dmschmidt at sprint.ca Thu Jul 29 10:21:50 2004 From: dmschmidt at sprint.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Thu Jul 29 10:34:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free sample of beautiful fossilized stromatolitestone. References: <143.2f119d8c.2e3a8873@aol.com> Message-ID: <336401c47590$8902d0a0$6702a8c0@remains> publishing your UPS account number on a public list probably isn't the smartest thing you could do...... ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Free sample of beautiful fossilized stromatolitestone. > I would love a sample. I have heard a lot about it, but never seen it other > than in pictures. > > > SHip to Jeff Ursillo > Bob's Printing > 181 SE 5th Ave > Delray Beach FL 33483 > > UPS shipper number X9X 795 > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From indiacolors at comcast.net Thu Jul 29 13:55:11 2004 From: indiacolors at comcast.net (K Sterling-ADAMS) Date: Thu Jul 29 10:54:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free sample of beautiful fossilized stromatolite stone. References: <45.11c8546b.2e3a5bc3@aol.com> Message-ID: <008001c475ae$59086c20$be523f44@danbry01.ct.comcast.net> I would like a free sample of the fossil stone you have promoted. I prefer one suitable for a nice large pendant in jewelry. I do not have a UPS account, so please email me directly with payment information. I can send Paypal or whatever you prefer. Thanks! Kim Adams 248 Greenwood Ave Bethel CT 06801-2420 email: indiacolors@comcast.net ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 6:55 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Free sample of beautiful fossilized stromatolite stone. > From: Crescent Stone Company > > > We are offering free samples to sellers or collectors of rough stone, and > finished we are embarking on what we feel will be the marketing of the next big > thing in beautiful fossilized stone. If you feel you could market this > product please Email your shipping address and UPS shipper number if applicable, so > we can ship free sample you pay only for shipping. This organism created the > first oxygen on Earth as well as being between 1.7-3.5 billion years old. > We are now in the process of making an educational film about this fossil as > well as in contact will Smithsonian as to their planned new wing on the most > important and beautiful fossil on Earth, Stromatolite (algal) Stone. The > quality ranges from construction grade to jewelry grade. You can go to > http://www.crescentstone.com/ for geologist authentication. > When you reply to free offer please explain your use so we can send correct > sample. Sample will be about size 2.5"x2.5". > You will be responsible for UPS shipping not handling. > > > > Sincerely; Steve DeLong/Owner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Jul 29 14:44:27 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Jul 29 14:44:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Siderazot, or not? References: <003a01c472f9$e2050720$6402a8c0@axel> <4107231D.1DBA@Tomaszewski.net><002301c47482$d1773ec0$6402a8c0@axel> <410872E6.499D@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <004501c475b5$3c936700$6402a8c0@axel> Yo Kreigh, > Volcano World's FAQ (URL may wrap) at > http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vwdocs/frequent_questions/grp1/question3753.html Yes, I tookalook. Go this way: http://www.tulane.edu/~sanelson/geol111/igneous.htm > reports that the iridesence in pahoehoe is caused by numerous parallel > thin layers of glass. They give the analogy of an oil slick on a wet > road. Short and sweet (but its a fun website you could lose hours at). Yes BUT : I may have been too rash ;-)) So, on second thougth: Hawaiian volcanoes have (in my recollection, tell me if I'm wrong) high temp. (1000?-1200? ???) magma and low SiO2 (45-55%) content. I.o.w. they're basaltic? How are we gonna make glass from that? However, we're still stretching the cooling lava while there's stuff forming... Let's say that the fast cooling surface of the lava has a aphanitic structure. Still a final stretch in the flow before hardening would polarize any (even cryptocrystalline) crystals growing. Instead of parralel lamellae of glass, parallel crypto-crystals of feldspar (microcline?) could give rise to a shimmer of iridescence? > Forgive me for doing a little thinking aloud (at least as fast as my > typewronging skills allow)... I can feel the power of imagination kicking in ;-)))))) We have been doing that for the last ... say...15.000 years, haven't we? (LOL) > I note in my limited samples that iridesence is much more likely on > surfaces that appear to have been stretched. Stretching would help > produce parallel layers, and I don't think what is stretched always > needs to be layered originally since temp, pressure/tension, and > atmosphere gradients are closely aligned in surface stretching. Let me point out that stretching may organise even molecules (AND large crystals) in a mass of polyethylene or polystyrene. It would certainly force relatively large objects like crystals to polarise. > However, I have some examples where stretching doesn't seem to apply at > all. Your idea sounds like it could be key to an explanation of the > formation of multiple layers. A way to form multiple layers eliminates a > requirement for stretching, while giving it a better chance of success. Yes, in more rhyolitic magmas... Seems like layer thickness dictates whether the iridescence is blue-yellow (thinner) or red-green (thicker). > Thin film deposition on existing crust by exhausted vapors is a known > cause of iridesence. I expect surface microconditions, flow composition, > and exposure to the air, to affect the surfaces produced because of > deposition effects. I'm sorta thinking about how Al forms a thin oxide > layer in the atmosphere that mostly protects it from further chemical > erosion, and that the lava gasses must contribute in that wierd > environment, but I expect this to be a small (though possibly major) > factor. Microchemical as opposed to micromechanical (the stretching)... hmm... > The crust that forms is often/usually full of expanded (micro) vapor > bubbles liberated from the gas in solution with the molten lava as its > state changed through plastic to solid. Foam? Thin membranes of glass may react as soap-bubbles? > If you dip a layer of oxidized/nitrated/aired hardened lava in hot lava > do you get a thin coat, like dipping a candle in hot wax, that can form > another changed layer when it bobs back to the surface? How hot is that > lava? How regular are the layers? Do chemical bonds change when it > hardened so the structure is less affected by heat? Two phases with a halo of intermediate material? Wouldn't that show up on a polarasation microscope with a thin plaque of polished material? > LOL > I think you are well started as you have a plausable place to begin an > exploration into the cause of iridesence in pahoehoe. I look forward to > hearing about your progress. I'll start by correcting my ideas about the type of lava. Basaltic? Anyone? Please? > P.S., If you are VERY _Seriously_ up to "Do _NOT_ Try This At Home!" > experiments, it is not very difficult to make a carbon arc furnace for > melting your own small batches of lava to experiment with. > _YOU_ are responsible for your own, SAFE, breathing air if you are crazy > enough to even think of trying this.. > A couple firebricks, an extension cord, a few batteries, some 1/4 inch > (copper) plumbing pipe, lye, a large (pyrex) glass container, water, a > switch, a few boards and nails, some high temp electrical tape, proper > UV (welding) protection, proper gloves, some other very common stuff, > ...and more than a clue of what you are getting into on your _OWN_ > responsibility. > Soldering iron is optional (but suggested); other tools assumed (give up > now if you can't name them). A Rhumkorf coil? > All "Online", and any "Off-Line", questions not showing a very GOOD > understanding _WILL_ be ignored; any responses will be off-line. > > THIS _REALLY_ IS _NOT_ SAFE! Let's say that lyability starts by knowing that electric current can kill the feable minded explorer ;-)))) I know some people that are far better in doing this than I am... I'll try to interest them. There is no financial gain in this and mineralogy has been swimming in the backwater since the dawn of geo-sattelites ;-((( It really boils down to: do we wanna know what this is about and how bad do we want to know it. Cheers Axel From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Jul 29 14:46:23 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Jul 29 14:46:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Siderazot, or not? References: <003a01c472f9$e2050720$6402a8c0@axel><4107231D.1DBA@Tomaszewski.net><002301c47482$d1773ec0$6402a8c0@axel><410872E6.499D@Tomaszewski.net> <6.1.2.0.0.20040728185755.03229eb0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <004c01c475b5$82590920$6402a8c0@axel> > Kreigh, you never cease to astonish me at the breadth of your knowledge! I'll second that, Kitty. > But the ones that are multicolored appear to have formed with bubbles---small > concave dimples about 1mm in diameter, closely clustered together. I don't > think I've seen a multicolored one that appears stretched (though I'm not > sure). Foam? Axel From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Jul 29 15:14:25 2004 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Thu Jul 29 17:21:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free sample of beautiful fossilizedstromatolitestone. References: <143.2f119d8c.2e3a8873@aol.com> <336401c47590$8902d0a0$6702a8c0@remains> Message-ID: <006c01c475b9$6e6c3000$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Uh Jeff? I would suggest that you change that UPS shipper number pronto! John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Schmidt" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Free sample of beautiful fossilizedstromatolitestone. > publishing your UPS account number on a public list probably isn't the > smartest thing you could do...... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 11:05 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Free sample of beautiful fossilized > stromatolitestone. > > > > I would love a sample. I have heard a lot about it, but never seen it > other > > than in pictures. > > > > > > SHip to Jeff Ursillo > > Bob's Printing > > 181 SE 5th Ave > > Delray Beach FL 33483 > > > > UPS shipper number X9X 795 > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Jul 29 18:32:40 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Jul 29 18:20:10 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Siderazot, or not? References: <003a01c472f9$e2050720$6402a8c0@axel> <4107231D.1DBA@Tomaszewski.net><002301c47482$d1773ec0$6402a8c0@axel> <410872E6.499D@Tomaszewski.net> <004501c475b5$3c936700$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: <4109A240.749@Tomaszewski.net> Axel Emmermann wrote: > Yes BUT : I may have been too rash ;-)) > So, on second thougth: Hawaiian volcanoes have (in my recollection, tell me > if I'm wrong) high temp. (1000?-1200? ???) magma and low SiO2 (45-55%) USGS says Kilauea is 48.4% SiO2 13.2 Al2O3 11.2 FeO 9.7 MgO 10.3 CaO 2.4 Na2O 0.6 K2O 2.8 TiO2 1.4 Other Kilauea's theoleiitic lava becomes solid at 1800F (980C). Up to 1960F (1070C) it is partially molten but still rigid; at that temperature it becomes molten and yields with a taffy-like texture when probed. Flows commonly have a temperature between 2040F and 2190F. Magma emerging from the core runs around 2480F when it reaches the surface level, and cools a couple hundred degrees F rising thru the cone to the volcano mouth. > content. I.o.w. they're basaltic? How are we gonna make glass from that? Cool the surface quickly by contact with air. It doesn't have to cool very much. > However, we're still stretching the cooling lava while there's stuff > forming... > Let's say that the fast cooling surface of the lava has a aphanitic > structure. Still a final stretch in the flow before hardening would polarize > any (even cryptocrystalline) crystals growing. Schumann (and others) observe the micro crystals in basalt often have a preferred alignment. > Instead of parralel lamellae of glass, parallel crypto-crystals of feldspar Alkali feldspars are typically under 35%, plagioclase typically above 65%, of the total feldspar content. > (microcline?) could give rise to a shimmer of iridescence? > This is getting interesting. How do you test for parallel crypto-crystals? Thin slices and polarized light under a microscope? Then you could measure size and spacing too. Kreigh From jonee at epix.net Thu Jul 29 18:24:17 2004 From: jonee at epix.net (E. L. Jones) Date: Thu Jul 29 18:22:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Siderazot, or not? Glass In-Reply-To: <004501c475b5$3c936700$6402a8c0@axel> References: <003a01c472f9$e2050720$6402a8c0@axel> <4107231D.1DBA@Tomaszewski.net><002301c47482$d1773ec0$6402a8c0@axel> <410872E6.499D@Tomaszewski.net> <004501c475b5$3c936700$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: <4109A341.1020306@epix.net> Be it remembered Not all glass is silica. I believe the lava there is up to 40% Olivine ( Forsterite proper). There is certainly a lot of "fiber"glass around (Pele's Hair) Elton >Yes BUT : I may have been too rash ;-)) >So, on second thougth: Hawaiian volcanoes have (in my recollection, tell me >if I'm wrong) high temp. (1000?-1200? ???) magma and low SiO2 (45-55%) >content. I.o.w. they're basaltic? How are we gonna make glass from that? >However, we're still stretching the cooling lava while there's stuff >forming... > > > From BNMJEFF at aol.com Thu Jul 29 18:27:23 2004 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Thu Jul 29 18:27:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free sample of beautiful fossilizedstromatolitestone. Message-ID: <148.2f85d031.2e3afdfb@aol.com> to the list.. I am sorry I posted my response to the whole list..accidents do happen......and i do trust the integrity of the list not to use the shipping number...if you know how UPS works..you know it is not that valuable... and .....uh john...thanks for the advice... and to dmschmidt....read above..accidents to happen..not a question of being "smart"...look to your own house.. Jeff --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From morningstar at att.net Thu Jul 29 19:07:29 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Thu Jul 29 19:07:31 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Siderazot, or not? Message-ID: <073020040207.28135.4109AD60000C36A800006DE721602810609D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> > This is getting interesting. How do you test for parallel > crypto-crystals? Thin slices and polarized light under a microscope? > Then you could measure size and spacing too. Easiest way, for sure. However it would be a little tricky to create the initial section, since you'd want to orient the slice perpindicular to the flow in question--either that, or use a universal stage so you can tilt the section in almost any direction to provide correct orientation. Don From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Jul 29 20:19:23 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Jul 29 20:06:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Siderazot, or not? Glass References: <003a01c472f9$e2050720$6402a8c0@axel> <4107231D.1DBA@Tomaszewski.net><002301c47482$d1773ec0$6402a8c0@axel> <410872E6.499D@Tomaszewski.net> <004501c475b5$3c936700$6402a8c0@axel> <4109A341.1020306@epix.net> Message-ID: <4109BB35.6315@Tomaszewski.net> Kilauea lava is mostly (95% +) olivine free according to the USGS. E. L. Jones wrote: > > Be it remembered Not all glass is silica. I believe the lava there is > up to 40% Olivine ( Forsterite proper). There is certainly a lot of > "fiber"glass around (Pele's Hair) > > Elton > > >Yes BUT : I may have been too rash ;-)) > >So, on second thougth: Hawaiian volcanoes have (in my recollection, tell me > >if I'm wrong) high temp. (1000?-1200? ???) magma and low SiO2 (45-55%) > >content. I.o.w. they're basaltic? How are we gonna make glass from that? > >However, we're still stretching the cooling lava while there's stuff > >forming... From Lapadary at aol.com Thu Jul 29 20:42:38 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Thu Jul 29 20:42:42 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Siderazot, or not? Glass Message-ID: <12a.475de572.2e3b1dae@aol.com> In a message dated 7/29/04 8:07:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: Kilauea lava is mostly (95% +) olivine free according to the USGS. ___________ There is a 'green sand' beach I have heard about. I can't remember where it is in relation to Kilauea, maybe even a different island. When a friend wanted info about it I emailed Kitty and she explained where it was at. If I remember correctly the green is olivine. At some time in the past the volcanism that created all the islands must have passed through an area that was capable of producing olivine rich lava. Maybe Kilauea already used up all the components necessary to make peridot. Maybe it is concentrated like gold in placer deposits. Does anybody know why the lava doesn't contain olivine? Grant Johnston, Chico, CA --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at aloha.net Thu Jul 29 22:55:41 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Jul 29 22:29:15 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Sand Beach In-Reply-To: <12a.475de572.2e3b1dae@aol.com> References: <12a.475de572.2e3b1dae@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040729194937.06c92630@mail.aloha.net> At 05:42 PM 7/29/2004, Lapadary@aol.com wrote: >___________ >There is a 'green sand' beach I have heard about. I can't remember where it >is in relation to Kilauea, maybe even a different island. When a friend >wanted >info about it I emailed Kitty and she explained where it was at. Hi Grant and List: If you put < Green Sand Beach > into search (google or any other) you'll find several sites that show pictures and describe where it is. Not much geology, though. Aloha, Kitty From dmschmidt at sprint.ca Thu Jul 29 23:55:29 2004 From: dmschmidt at sprint.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Fri Jul 30 00:16:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free sample of beautiful fossilizedstromatolitestone. References: <148.2f85d031.2e3afdfb@aol.com> Message-ID: <3d4c01c47602$332c9b30$6702a8c0@remains> look to my own house? accident or no, listing account numbers for ANYTHING on a public list is a mistake. period. i wasn't the one who gave my account number to the list membership...so I think "my house" is a little more ordered than yours. thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 7:27 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Free sample of beautiful fossilizedstromatolitestone. > to the list.. > > I am sorry I posted my response to the whole list..accidents do > happen......and i do trust the integrity of the list not to use the shipping number...if > you know how UPS works..you know it is not that valuable... > > and .....uh john...thanks for the advice... > > and to dmschmidt....read above..accidents to happen..not a question of being > "smart"...look to your own house.. > > Jeff > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at aloha.net Fri Jul 30 00:59:38 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Jul 30 00:33:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Please... In-Reply-To: <3d4c01c47602$332c9b30$6702a8c0@remains> References: <148.2f85d031.2e3afdfb@aol.com> <3d4c01c47602$332c9b30$6702a8c0@remains> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040729215534.02f79580@mail.aloha.net> Please stop. Be nice. Let it go. Aloha, Kitty At 08:55 PM 7/29/2004, you wrote: >look to my own house? accident or no, listing account numbers for ANYTHING >on a public list is a mistake. period. > >i wasn't the one who gave my account number to the list membership...so I >think "my house" is a little more ordered than yours. thanks >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 7:27 PM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Free sample of beautiful >fossilizedstromatolitestone. > > > > to the list.. > > > > I am sorry I posted my response to the whole list..accidents do > > happen......and i do trust the integrity of the list not to use the >shipping number...if > > you know how UPS works..you know it is not that valuable... > > > > and .....uh john...thanks for the advice... > > > > and to dmschmidt....read above..accidents to happen..not a question of >being > > "smart"...look to your own house.. > > > > Jeff > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From afox at drizzle.com Fri Jul 30 05:21:42 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Fri Jul 30 05:21:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Sand Beach In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20040729194937.06c92630@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: I though the green was due to (relatively) unweathered olivine crystals in the sand, but I could be wrong.. Without knowing more, I'd speculate that the beach is near a more alkalic phase flow (more like an alkali basalt, Low Si02 and more enriched in Fe/Mg than the normal OIB). However, that's just guessing; I could be wrong. a. > At 05:42 PM 7/29/2004, Lapadary@aol.com wrote: > >___________ > >There is a 'green sand' beach I have heard about. I can't remember where it > >is in relation to Kilauea, maybe even a different island. When a friend > >wanted > >info about it I emailed Kitty and she explained where it was at. > > Hi Grant and List: > > If you put < Green Sand Beach > into search (google or any other) you'll > find several sites that show pictures and describe where it is. Not much > geology, though. > > Aloha, Kitty > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox Highway Patrolman: "Sir, do you know how fast you were going?" Heisenberg: "No, but I know EXACTLY where I was!" From buff1 at ptd.net Fri Jul 30 05:25:27 2004 From: buff1 at ptd.net (Dennis Buffenmyer) Date: Fri Jul 30 05:25:15 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] "Giesickite" In-Reply-To: <40F2021D.472@Tomaszewski.net> References: <008a01c467b5$3cd39fe0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> <40F2021D.472@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <410A3E37.1040509@ptd.net> My understanding of giesickite is that it is an old varietal name for a mica pseudomorph of nepheline that was named for an occurance in St lawrence county N.Y. It is NOT a valide mineral name but does show up on the obsolete mineral listing book. The gieseckite from N.Y. , while green, is not associated with magnetite to my knowledge. Actually this whole processs of how micas can pseudo a mineral such as nepheline is more amazing than the mineral itself, even if considering solution or solid replacement!! Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >Alan Goldstein wrote: > > >>While at the Princess Sodalite mine over a week ago, Andy Christie showed us a green rock with magnetite inclusions. He says it is an altered clay called something like "giesickite." I'm not sure of the correct spelling. Has anyone heard of that? >> >>Alan >> >> >> > >Giessenite is a sulphosalt. Elbaite of Giesecke is a synonym for >ilvaite, a sorosilicate. Geikielite is an oxide. White analcime altered >from sodalite is known from the Princess Mine. Orthoclase is also known >from the Princess and might provide the clay. Green in clay is often >mica altered to chlorite. Magnetite is not uncommon with sodalite. > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From CrescentStoneINC at aol.com Fri Jul 30 06:54:43 2004 From: CrescentStoneINC at aol.com (CrescentStoneINC@aol.com) Date: Fri Jul 30 06:54:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free sample of beautiful fossilizedstromatolitestone. Message-ID: <127.46dd26bb.2e3bad23@aol.com> From: Crescent Stone Company Jeff; You are forgiven , go with God. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From newryqs at rochester.rr.com Fri Jul 30 07:10:48 2004 From: newryqs at rochester.rr.com (Van) Date: Fri Jul 30 07:11:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] "Giesickite" References: <008a01c467b5$3cd39fe0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> <40F2021D.472@Tomaszewski.net> <410A3E37.1040509@ptd.net> Message-ID: <000a01c4763f$03e05ff0$5df64342@nathanqa8gl7gx> Gieseckite, a substance which is not commonly identified so we don't actually know what today's species designation would be, was named for Sir Charles Giesecke and NOT for a St. Lawrence County locality. Van ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Buffenmyer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 8:25 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] "Giesickite" > My understanding of giesickite is that it is an old varietal name for a > mica pseudomorph of nepheline that was named for an occurance in St > lawrence county > N.Y. It is NOT a valide mineral name but does show up on the obsolete > mineral listing book. The gieseckite from N.Y. , while green, is not > associated with > magnetite to my knowledge. Actually this whole processs of how micas can > pseudo a mineral such as nepheline is more amazing than the mineral > itself, even if considering solution or solid replacement!! > > Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > >Alan Goldstein wrote: > > > > > >>While at the Princess Sodalite mine over a week ago, Andy Christie showed us a green rock with magnetite inclusions. He says it is an altered clay called something like "giesickite." I'm not sure of the correct spelling. Has anyone heard of that? > >> > >>Alan > >> > >> > >> > > > >Giessenite is a sulphosalt. Elbaite of Giesecke is a synonym for > >ilvaite, a sorosilicate. Geikielite is an oxide. White analcime altered > >from sodalite is known from the Princess Mine. Orthoclase is also known > >from the Princess and might provide the clay. Green in clay is often > >mica altered to chlorite. Magnetite is not uncommon with sodalite. > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tim at orerockon.com Fri Jul 30 07:46:44 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Jul 30 07:46:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Sand Beach In-Reply-To: References: <6.1.2.0.0.20040729194937.06c92630@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.2.20040730074346.01dd8ec0@mail.spiritone.com> You are right on Aaron. Lotsa olivine in that flow; there is more than one green sand beach on the islands; I went to one on Maui that is more like a peridot color than the famous one near South Point on Hawaii... At 05:21 AM 7/30/2004, you wrote: >I though the green was due to (relatively) unweathered olivine crystals in >the sand, but I could be wrong.. Without knowing more, I'd speculate that >the beach is near a more alkalic phase flow (more like an alkali basalt, >Low Si02 and more enriched in Fe/Mg than the normal OIB). However, that's >just guessing; I could be wrong. > >a. > > > > At 05:42 PM 7/29/2004, Lapadary@aol.com wrote: > > >___________ > > >There is a 'green sand' beach I have heard about. I can't remember > where it > > >is in relation to Kilauea, maybe even a different island. When a friend > > >wanted > > >info about it I emailed Kitty and she explained where it was at. > > > > Hi Grant and List: > > > > If you put < Green Sand Beach > into search (google or any other) you'll > > find several sites that show pictures and describe where it is. Not much > > geology, though. > > > > Aloha, Kitty > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >-- > afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox > Highway Patrolman: "Sir, do you know how fast you were going?" > Heisenberg: "No, but I know EXACTLY where I was!" > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From geenet2 at mchsi.com Fri Jul 30 09:08:41 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Fri Jul 30 09:08:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Sand Beach References: <6.1.2.0.0.20040729194937.06c92630@mail.aloha.net> <6.1.1.1.2.20040730074346.01dd8ec0@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <000f01c4764f$7b90d600$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> I picked up a few of the green crystals on South Point. They were darker than peridot usually is, but definately green. That doesn't count as removing lava does it? We didn't make it to the green sand beach. Too Tired! That was an awesome place!! The waves were piling up the the "point" like a ship cutting thru the sea. Got my first taste of real sashimi there, as in still kicking. A couple of young guys were fishing just back from the point where it's a thirty foot drop down to the water and caught an Ahi tuna about 4 feet long. You know what they were using for the float??? A big plastic garbage bag! It was let out so far it looked very small. (yeah, yeah, I don't want to hear from the eco-minded) I'm just reporting, not advocating. The cleaned it, got a snack and headed into town to sell it to a restaurant for mucho dinero. (many bucks, that's the tuna they sell in markets for what, about a hundred bucks a pound, or ounce, I forget). Jeanette and Glenn....still pining for Hawaii... Re: [Rockhounds] Green Sand Beach > You are right on Aaron. Lotsa olivine in that flow; there is more than one > green sand beach on the islands; I went to one on Maui that is more like a > peridot color than the famous one near South Point on Hawaii... > > At 05:21 AM 7/30/2004, you wrote: > >I though the green was due to (relatively) unweathered olivine crystals in > >the sand, but I could be wrong.. Without knowing more, I'd speculate that > >the beach is near a more alkalic phase flow (more like an alkali basalt, > >Low Si02 and more enriched in Fe/Mg than the normal OIB). However, that's > >just guessing; I could be wrong. > > > >a From tim at orerockon.com Fri Jul 30 09:52:09 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Jul 30 09:52:07 2004 Subject: OFF TOPIC Re: [Rockhounds] Green Sand Beach In-Reply-To: <000f01c4764f$7b90d600$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> References: <6.1.2.0.0.20040729194937.06c92630@mail.aloha.net> <6.1.1.1.2.20040730074346.01dd8ec0@mail.spiritone.com> <000f01c4764f$7b90d600$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.2.20040730094308.01e77ec0@mail.spiritone.com> Actually Ahi runs about $12-16/lb. around here, for sushi grade; $6-7 for frozen. The expensive tuna meat is toro, which is the fatty belly strip from a bluefin tuna...The meat sells at retail for as much as $45 a pound, in Japan, much less here, of you can get it, that is. I have seen it on occasion for about $25/lb., at Japanese groceries around town. I have caught Ahi off of Maui, they are used for bait for the big guys, i.e. marlin & wahoo; they are great eating right on the boat, with a little rice, wasabi, & soy sauce ;) No BBQ needed :D At 09:08 AM 7/30/2004, you wrote: >I picked up a few of the green crystals on South Point. They were darker >than peridot usually is, but definately green. That doesn't count as >removing lava does it? We didn't make it to the green sand beach. Too >Tired! That was an awesome place!! The waves were piling up the the >"point" like a ship cutting thru the sea. Got my first taste of real >sashimi there, as in still kicking. A couple of young guys were fishing >just back from the point where it's a thirty foot drop down to the water and >caught an Ahi tuna about 4 feet long. You know what they were using for the >float??? A big plastic garbage bag! It was let out so far it looked very >small. (yeah, yeah, I don't want to hear from the eco-minded) I'm just >reporting, not advocating. The cleaned it, got a snack and headed into town >to sell it to a restaurant for mucho dinero. (many bucks, that's the tuna >they sell in markets for what, about a hundred bucks a pound, or ounce, I >forget). > >Jeanette and Glenn....still pining for Hawaii... > > > Re: [Rockhounds] Green Sand Beach > > > > You are right on Aaron. Lotsa olivine in that flow; there is more than one > > green sand beach on the islands; I went to one on Maui that is more like a > > peridot color than the famous one near South Point on Hawaii... > > > > At 05:21 AM 7/30/2004, you wrote: > > >I though the green was due to (relatively) unweathered olivine crystals >in > > >the sand, but I could be wrong.. Without knowing more, I'd speculate >that > > >the beach is near a more alkalic phase flow (more like an alkali basalt, > > >Low Si02 and more enriched in Fe/Mg than the normal OIB). However, >that's > > >just guessing; I could be wrong. > > > > > >a > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From kahako at aloha.net Fri Jul 30 12:17:45 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Jul 30 11:51:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Sand Beach In-Reply-To: References: <6.1.2.0.0.20040729194937.06c92630@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040730090324.02ea2900@mail.aloha.net> At 02:21 AM 7/30/2004, Aaron Fox wrote: >I though the green was due to (relatively) unweathered olivine crystals in >the sand, but I could be wrong.. Without knowing more, I'd speculate that >the beach is near a more alkalic phase flow (more like an alkali basalt, >Low Si02 and more enriched in Fe/Mg than the normal OIB). However, that's >just guessing; I could be wrong. My jar full of sand from Green Sand Beach (at South Point) is made up of black basalt grains, a few bits of white coral, and tiny olivine crystals worn almost round, some as much as 3 mm in diameter, though most more like 1 or 2 mm. When you separate out a bunch of the olivine grains and look at them in sunlight, they are bright, light translucent green. A friend told me: "Aw, that's nothing special..that's probably just little pieces of a broken Steinlager bottle!" Aloha, Kitty From jonee at epix.net Fri Jul 30 12:35:35 2004 From: jonee at epix.net (E. L. Jones) Date: Fri Jul 30 12:33:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free sample of beautiful fossilizedstromatolitestone. In-Reply-To: <006c01c475b9$6e6c3000$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> References: <143.2f119d8c.2e3a8873@aol.com> <336401c47590$8902d0a0$6702a8c0@remains> <006c01c475b9$6e6c3000$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <410AA307.4050803@epix.net> Neat-oH! I just shipped 3 tons of my better petrified wood to my new home in Hawaii--What a list! Elton (just kidding--only one ton) Actually I didn't get the original posting -- Seems the word "Free" trips my ISP's SPAM filter. John Siebel wrote: > <>Uh Jeff? > > I would suggest that you change that UPS shipper number pronto! > > John From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jul 30 13:01:29 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jul 30 12:46:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Siderazot, or not? Glass References: <12a.475de572.2e3b1dae@aol.com> Message-ID: <410AA58D.157E@Tomaszewski.net> During the shield building phase of a volcano like Kilauea you have almost all tholeite as it is fed from the deep hotspot. As it enters its post shield alkalic stage you get olivine, but that is only a couple percent of the total flow. Kreigh Lapadary@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 7/29/04 8:07:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: > Kilauea lava is mostly (95% +) olivine free according to the USGS. > ___________ > There is a 'green sand' beach I have heard about. I can't remember where it > is in relation to Kilauea, maybe even a different island. When a friend wanted > info about it I emailed Kitty and she explained where it was at. > > If I remember correctly the green is olivine. At some time in the past the > volcanism that created all the islands must have passed through an area that was > capable of producing olivine rich lava. Maybe Kilauea already used up all the > components necessary to make peridot. Maybe it is concentrated like gold in > placer deposits. Does anybody know why the lava doesn't contain olivine? > > Grant Johnston, Chico, CA > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jul 30 13:54:25 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jul 30 13:39:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Sand Beach References: <12a.475de572.2e3b1dae@aol.com> <6.1.2.0.0.20040729194937.06c92630@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <410AB1ED.4DCF@Tomaszewski.net> Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > At 05:42 PM 7/29/2004, Lapadary@aol.com wrote: > >___________ > >There is a 'green sand' beach I have heard about. I can't remember where it > >is in relation to Kilauea, maybe even a different island. When a friend > >wanted > >info about it I emailed Kitty and she explained where it was at. > > Hi Grant and List: > > If you put < Green Sand Beach > into search (google or any other) you'll > find several sites that show pictures and describe where it is. Not much > geology, though. > > Aloha, Kitty Kitty, If you search for " olivine sand beach " you will get links to explanations of how the green sand forms. Kreigh From buff1 at ptd.net Sat Jul 31 06:12:58 2004 From: buff1 at ptd.net (Dennis Buffenmyer) Date: Sat Jul 31 06:12:49 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Crescent Mine, Olympic Peninsula, Washington In-Reply-To: <40A6DCD5-E05A-11D8-A99C-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> References: <4104044E.6010702@tenforward.com><003001c4727e$8b5892a0$6401a8c0@Junior> <8E7D881C-DF26-11D8-A99C-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <003401c47337$69dca580$6401a8c0@Junior> <40A6DCD5-E05A-11D8-A99C-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <410B9ADA.4020408@ptd.net> I try REALLY hard not to respond to this list as I seem to regularly get "corrected" or flamed for my input; but, THANK YOU Lanny for putting this into perspective! It seems those who need the warning will never hear it and for the rest of us;we just shoot ourselves in the foot for trying to protect them.. Yes, THE WORLD is a VERY dangerous place! Lanny wrote: > Hi Tim, > > I don't believe I've ever heard of a case against someone who told > someone else about a collecting locality being held liable. Guides and > tour directors who actually took someone to a place or on a trip > perhaps, but I haven't heard of any suits involving this in any > mineral-related jaunts being liable. I expect they might be if someone > was hurt or killed on an organized/guided trip. The clubs certainly > have taken the approach that they are liable. > > Considering that literature of all kinds is full of descriptions of > areas and activities that are dangerous, I doubt that writers are > liable. I've still never heard of any one who writes about any kind of > location or activity being held liable for someone being injured or > killed there. It isn't just mineral locations and mines. There are a > lot more people injured and killed swimming, fishing, hiking, mountain > climbing, etc. and magazines and newspapers are loaded with > descriptions of recreation and vacation sites. Several people have > died climbing Mt. Rainier in the last 10 years (this was a bad year > for that), but I don't believe there have been any lawsuits against > any of the climbing magazines that have had articles on climbing Mt. > Rainier. So why would the author or publisher of an article on a mine > be liable? > > I disagree on your difference between Disneyland and mine sites. > People have been seriously injured and killed at Disneyland. I don't > believe there have been any lawsuits against the travel writers who > have written on what a great place it is. As to injuries at mines, I > would like to see those statistics on "... people are killed by > falling down mine shafts quite regularly ... ." > I really hope we don't have to quit writing about mineral localities > because someone might sue us; that would destroy a lot of sharing of > information and should be the end of all the mineral magazines. > > Regards, > > Lannyh > > > > > From CrescentStoneINC at aol.com Sat Jul 31 06:40:50 2004 From: CrescentStoneINC at aol.com (CrescentStoneINC@aol.com) Date: Sat Jul 31 06:40:57 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Stromatolite Samples Message-ID: From: Crescent Stone Company crescentstoneinc@aol.com http://www.crescentstone.com/ 2915 West 44th Street Mpls., MN 55410 888-400-0094 We are resending this Email offer because it got kicked out because the first had FREE in beginning of Email subject. We are offering free samples to sellers or collectors of rough stone, and finished we are embarking on what we feel will be the marketing of the next big thing in beautiful fossilized stone. If you feel you could market this product please Email your shipping address so we can ship free sample you pay only for shipping. This organism created the first oxygen on Earth as well as being between 1.7-3.5 billion years old. We are now in the process of making an educational film about this fossil as well as in contact with Smithsonian as to their planned new wing on the most important and beautiful fossil on Earth, Stromatolite (algal) Stone. The quality ranges from construction grade to jewelry grade. You can go to http://www.crescentstone.com/ for geologist authentication. When you reply to free offer please explain your use so we can send correct sample. Sample will be about size 2.5"x2.5". You will be responsible for UPS shipping not handling. Sincerely; Steve DeLong/Owner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Sat Jul 31 08:51:51 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Sat Jul 31 08:48:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Natural Features In-Reply-To: <410B9ADA.4020408@ptd.net> Message-ID: <200407311548.i6VFmh5M002011@bubbleator.drizzle.com> After making my daily visit to the Mars Exploration page I was struck by some of the features seen on the right edge of these two images (these images are the same...just different sizes...pick based on your connection speed): These URL's may wrap: 100KB image: http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/spirit/20040730a/2NN203EFF80CYL 00P1746L000M1-A204R1_br2.jpg 2.6MB image: http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/spirit/20040730a/2NN203EFF80CYL 00P1746L000M1-A204R1.jpg Mars Home Page: http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html Many times when I've been collecting I've wondered "Gee... Is that a NATURAL feature or is that an old game trail...old mine dump...whatever...". Looking at these images you can get a clue about how to build a "mind filter" for looking at things here on earth. I am assuming, of course, that we are seeing on mars ARE natural features and not the product of the so-far-unseen BEM's. Just random musings.... (which is what I get for programming until 1:30 AM last night (or was that this morning??)). Gary Brown Catspaw Minerals Home of MasMils/PLUS Mine Location Disk http://www.catspaw-minerals.com From jbryankramer at msn.com Sat Jul 31 09:07:16 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Jul 31 09:07:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Thar's Gold in them thar hills, in Minnesota In-Reply-To: <410B9ADA.4020408@ptd.net> Message-ID: <000001c47718$7809b8c0$6501a8c0@bryan> They've found gold in Soudan, Minnesota http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/9287121.htm Bryan From lanny at lrream.com Sat Jul 31 09:31:55 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sat Jul 31 09:31:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Crescent Mine, Olympic Peninsula, Washington In-Reply-To: <410B9ADA.4020408@ptd.net> References: <4104044E.6010702@tenforward.com><003001c4727e$8b5892a0$6401a8c0@Junior> <8E7D881C-DF26-11D8-A99C-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <003401c47337$69dca580$6401a8c0@Junior> <40A6DCD5-E05A-11D8-A99C-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <410B9ADA.4020408@ptd.net> Message-ID: <230F71AE-E30F-11D8-8766-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi Dennis, It's too bad that the general public and news media don't look at such things in a broader perspective. I have a tendency to look at these things from an outside view. Why do "we" have a fit when the rare case of several astronauts die in an "accident" with a space shuttle, yet we accept 45,000 highway deaths each year? I don't get it. I do see that as the same problem with deaths from unusual activities. If someone gets hurt in a mine, then mines are extremely dangerous. If someone drowns while boating, then its just an unfortunate accident. It's maddening. The year the two died in the mine up here in northern Idaho, the newspapers had a field day with articles on how dangerous mines are. There were no stastics with the articles, no information on how many people are injured or killed in mines in the past years (primarily because there are none), just statements as to how dangerous they are. The Forest Service then picked up the story line and issued a report on how they are closing the inactive mines for public safety to prevent this huge amount of (nonexistent) injuries and deaths. They even made one greater step, the local FS headquarters issued a decision that it was illegal to enter a mine without a permit. I asked the local BLM geologist (good friend) who actually was the one who would issue the permits about this, and he said that he didn't think they had any legal support to issue such a blanket ban. He said the BLM cooperated with the FS on this and handled the permits, but the permit was issued to anyone who wanted one if they responded yes to the questioning that they understood that mines were dangerous. Talk about adding a level of bureaucracy to life! He also stated about a year later that only one person had requested a permit, I told him I wouldn't be one them. The BLM and FS throughout the USA have an active program to close abandoned mines. They spend millions every year on it. They've started with mine near towns and recreation areas and are branching out to those easily accessible in the backcountry. In my trips investigating mines for their minerals, I come across closed mines regularly. It is a major loss to the scientific community, and to the hobby of mineral collecting. All for nothing. A lot more people will be killed in auto accidents driving to the mine sites than will die in the mines, and a lot more will drown or otherwise be killed while enjoying other forms of recreation on those same trips than will die in the mines while visiting them. In all fairness, perhaps I should also report that the BLM was successfully sued 30 years or so ago for two deaths in mines. Both of them were the type of case where the individuals involved were doing something totally stupid and they should have been held responsible, not the government. One, as reported to me by the BLM back then, involved to boys/young men (age not given) riding motorcycles across a plank over a shaft. One of them finally fell and died. Family sued the BLM for leaving a hazard, BLM lost. The other involved a father with a young son on the back of his motorcycle jumping a shaft by riding up the berm around it give the lift to soar over to the other side. After a couple successful times he came up short and the impact bounced his young son off the back and he fell down the shaft and died. Another successful lawsuit. After the death of the mineral collector in the Gold Hill Mine, Utah, the county sheriff posted all the mines there. Most of the signs are still there, but of course mineral collectors still go underground at, most just avoid that area of bad ground. In perspective, the government especially is vulnerable, thanks to our lawsuit happy society, but mines have not proven to be all that much of a danger to the general public. I sure do hope we never get to the point where someone is successfully sued just because he described or wrote about a mine (or a recreation site). Regards, Lanny On Jul 31, 2004, at 6:12 AM, Dennis Buffenmyer wrote: > I try REALLY hard not to respond to this list as I seem to regularly > get "corrected" or flamed for my input; but, THANK YOU Lanny for > putting this into perspective! It seems those who need the warning > will never hear it and for the rest of us;we just shoot ourselves in > the foot for trying to protect them.. > Yes, THE WORLD is a VERY dangerous place! > > Lanny wrote: > >> Hi Tim, >> >> I don't believe I've ever heard of a case against someone who told >> someone else about a collecting locality being held liable. Guides >> and tour directors who actually took someone to a place or on a trip >> perhaps, but I haven't heard of any suits involving this in any >> mineral-related jaunts being liable. I expect they might be if >> someone was hurt or killed on an organized/guided trip. The clubs >> certainly have taken the approach that they are liable. >> >> Considering that literature of all kinds is full of descriptions of >> areas and activities that are dangerous, I doubt that writers are >> liable. I've still never heard of any one who writes about any kind >> of location or activity being held liable for someone being injured >> or killed there. It isn't just mineral locations and mines. There are >> a lot more people injured and killed swimming, fishing, hiking, >> mountain climbing, etc. and magazines and newspapers are loaded with >> descriptions of recreation and vacation sites. Several people have >> died climbing Mt. Rainier in the last 10 years (this was a bad year >> for that), but I don't believe there have been any lawsuits against >> any of the climbing magazines that have had articles on climbing Mt. >> Rainier. So why would the author or publisher of an article on a mine >> be liable? >> >> I disagree on your difference between Disneyland and mine sites. >> People have been seriously injured and killed at Disneyland. I don't >> believe there have been any lawsuits against the travel writers who >> have written on what a great place it is. As to injuries at mines, I >> would like to see those statistics on "... people are killed by >> falling down mine shafts quite regularly ... ." >> I really hope we don't have to quit writing about mineral localities >> because someone might sue us; that would destroy a lot of sharing of >> information and should be the end of all the mineral magazines. >> >> Regards, >> >> Lannyh >> >> >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From sauktown at adsnet.com Sat Jul 31 08:53:32 2004 From: sauktown at adsnet.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sat Jul 31 10:52:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Sauktown Sales Message-ID: <000001c47725$d74783a0$4a5204d0@jim> I've once more added to the list of unmounted micro material. Additions include wurtzite-6H from Ohio and material from various lesser known localities in California. I've also added a page of mounted thumbnails. This list includes photos of each specimen. (I apologize in advance for the quality of the photography) Jim Daly Sauktown Sales Microminerals and mounting supplies http://www.sauktown.com sauktown@adsnet.com or orders@sauktown.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Jul 31 21:07:37 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Jul 31 21:06:31 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Leelanau and Soo St Marie, MI Trip Message-ID: <410C6C3E.64E8@Tomaszewski.net> My family and I are off from Grand Rapids for a family reunion camping trip near Leelanau, and then some more days in the area of the Soo Locks looking for rocks and interesting sights. I'll be checking email before we leave mid-morning, so if any of you have suggestions of rock shops or collecting locations across our path thru Michigan, please let me know. Thanks! Kreigh From kqhayes at chartermi.net Sat Jul 31 21:19:56 2004 From: kqhayes at chartermi.net (Keith Q Hayes) Date: Sat Jul 31 21:20:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Leelanau and Soo St Marie, MI Trip In-Reply-To: <410C6C3E.64E8@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: It's probably out of the way, but I am usually open to visitors who wish to stop by and see minerals. I have about 25,000 specimens in need a good home. Since I will probably be moving sometime in the next few months, I'd really like to sell large quantities. Have a nice trip. Best Regards, Keith Hayes www.kqminerals.com kqhayes@chartermi.net 3705 Fuller Drive Midland, MI 48642 -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Kreigh Tomaszewski Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 12:08 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Leelanau and Soo St Marie, MI Trip My family and I are off from Grand Rapids for a family reunion camping trip near Leelanau, and then some more days in the area of the Soo Locks looking for rocks and interesting sights. I'll be checking email before we leave mid-morning, so if any of you have suggestions of rock shops or collecting locations across our path thru Michigan, please let me know. Thanks! Kreigh _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Lapidry at aol.com Thu Jul 29 04:45:07 2004 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Sun Aug 1 08:14:06 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bunker Hill mine Message-ID: <15d.3b06b3d3.2e3a3d43@aol.com> Hi All: I don't know if it's of interest to anyone but I'll mention it. The History Channel has an episode that, among other subjects, talks about the largest rock monolith (Uluru/Ayer's Rock), the Hope Diamond and meteorite ALH84001 (Mars rock with evidence of life) as well as info on Sutter's Mill. The only listing their website would show me was the current show I'm watching right now. Hopefully it will show another time when they update the listings. The show is "The Most" and the specific episode is "Wastelands/Rock Legends/Sea Stories/Temples/Sutter's Mill 1848." Dan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Oregonstamps7 at aol.com Sat Jul 31 20:32:54 2004 From: Oregonstamps7 at aol.com (Oregonstamps7@aol.com) Date: Sun Aug 1 08:14:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] You might be a rockhound if... Message-ID: <15b.3b446942.2e3dbe66@aol.com> You might be a rockhound if... Someone asks you if you have rocks in your head? ...and your only truthful answer is... Yes! T. McGinnis --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html ---