From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 1 09:15:54 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat May 1 08:15:54 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] History of Lapidary Equipment Makers Message-ID: <4093221F.56E0@Tomaszewski.net> One of the reoccurring questions on this (and many other) list(s) is "I have found a xxxxx model yyy lapidary machine. Where can I find a manual/part/more information about it?". And the answer is usually that zzzzz bought them out many years ago. A couple examples... Star Diamond was taken over by Barranca Diamond Products Inc. some years ago; www.barrancadiamond.com or 310-532-5867. Highland Park was taken over by Diamond Pacific Tool Corporation some years ago; www.diamondpacific.com or 800-253-2954. I would like to collect and publish this history on my website. But I need some help. Can you remember any old manufacturers of lapidary equipment and what happened to them? Do you remember when? If so please share what details you have with me so I can make the information available to everyone. Thanks! Kreigh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 1 09:17:23 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat May 1 08:17:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Humor References: <408EE6F1.6A28@Tomaszewski.net><001701c42cf6$d6bb90d0$6402a8c0@axel><6.0.3.0.0.20040428073322.02e8b940@mail.aloha.net><011a01c42d48$57dad170$6402a8c0@axel><6.0.3.0.0.20040428192231.02fae620@mail.aloha.net><003d01c42ebb$04998af0$6402a8c0@axel> <6.0.3.0.0.20040430073803.025f9b60@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <004301c42f8f$535eff60$6402a8c0@axel> > The way it is now it looks like you have only one fluorescent > rock, which I'm sure is not the case. I'd say 80 % fluorescent. Hundreds of them.... My database says about 331 fluorescent and 100 nonfluorescent but I have at least 200 more fluorescent specimens waiting for input. > Good luck and have a great time with the MINERANT 2004 show! Take some > pictures and post them on your site. I'll try very hard ;-))) But I intend to put some new photos of fluorescent minerals on our MKA website soon. Time for some new stuff. Sears... pardon, Cheers Axel From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 1 10:54:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sat May 1 09:54:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] History of Lapidary Equipment Makers Message-ID: <1e4.1f021e4e.2dc53019@aol.com> "Contempo" also took over Highland Park and then came Diamond Pacific to take over Contempo... So some equipment with the name Contempo, is mostly of Highland Park design.. "Contempo" lapidary was last located in Sylmar and is now out of business.. "Poly" arbors was based in Monrovia California.. No one took them over to carry on the line as far as i know.. Some other names that i know nothing about are "Stone Master" of Kansas City, MO. They made 4 wheel grinder polishers and probably many more things? Also "Fulmers"...They made a flat vibratory lap, etc ? And of course Beacon Star and Frantom... --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 1 12:38:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Rik Dillen) Date: Sat May 1 11:38:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Contact requested in France Message-ID: <001201c42fab$5d7617b0$553e88d9@maxdata> Since several days I try desperately to contact Yannick / Yves Dain in = France to warn him that a virus is active on his computer, but his e-mail adres ydain@wanadoo.fr is not = working anymore. Does anyone have a fax number or can someone contact him to notify him ? =20 To BCC: ccontacts only Depuis quelques jours j'essaie de contacter Yannick / Yves Dain en = France pour le faire savoir qu' un virus est actif sur son ordinateur, et son adresse e-mail ydain@wanadoo.fr ne fonctionne plus. = Est-ce quelqu'un d'entre vous conna=EEt son num=E9ro de fax ou est-ce que quelqu'un peut le contacter =E0 ce sujet svp ? Merci ! =20 Thanks and best regards, =20 Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15 B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium =20 Tel. + 32 3 7706007 E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be =20 Homepage : = http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list =20 MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html =20 Mineral collector's page = http://www.minerant.org/ >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! =20 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 1 13:15:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sat May 1 12:15:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Contact requested in France References: <001201c42fab$5d7617b0$553e88d9@maxdata> Message-ID: <001f01c42fb0$861fd840$34854c0c@fekib> I have his home address if you need that..........Larry Rush ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Rik Dillen=20 To: Rockhounds=20 Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 2:37 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Contact requested in France Since several days I try desperately to contact Yannick / Yves Dain in = France to warn him that a virus is active on his computer, but his e-mail adres ydain@wanadoo.fr is = not working anymore. Does anyone have a fax number or can someone contact him to notify him = ? =20 To BCC: ccontacts only Depuis quelques jours j'essaie de contacter Yannick / Yves Dain en = France pour le faire savoir qu' un virus est actif sur son ordinateur, et son adresse e-mail ydain@wanadoo.fr ne fonctionne plus. = Est-ce quelqu'un d'entre vous conna=EEt son num=E9ro de fax ou est-ce que quelqu'un peut le contacter =E0 ce sujet svp ? Merci ! =20 Thanks and best regards, =20 Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15 B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium =20 Tel. + 32 3 7706007 E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be =20 Homepage : = http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and = more) >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp = ! >>> Exchange list =20 MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html =20 Mineral collector's page = http://www.minerant.org/ >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! =20 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 1 13:45:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Horst Windisch) Date: Sat May 1 12:45:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Very beginner yet References: Message-ID: <000401c42fb2$c295d520$b04027c4@horstspc> Hello Yasin, I fully agree with Maurice about the problems associated in trying to take rocks out of Turkey. As I belong to Sand Collectyors International, I have even heard from some of our members having difficulty taking out a 35 mm film spool filled with sand!! Regards, Horst ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice de Graaf" To: Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 6:52 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Very beginner yet > Hello Yasin, > > Welcome to the club. Turkey is GREAT country for rockhounding. Turkey has > many rare boron minerals, as well as chromium deposits (like Kop Daglan). I > am no specialist in Turkish minerals but look at www.mindat.org and search > for 'Tuerkey' as locality. > I'm not sure rockhounding is legal in Turkey. At least trying to get rocks > out of the country can be a problem. Turkish law prohibits the export of > archeological artifacts and most custome officers (and judges) don't seem to > know the difference between rocks and chunks of old vases. > > Cheers, > Maurice > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Yasin Yilmaz > Sent: 30 April 2004 13:37 > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Very beginner yet > > > Hello all, (from Turkey) > > I was fascinated by a few visit to a rock collector's shop. After long > conversations with him at each visit, I decided to collect some more > information on net. (Then found you :) > I wonder if anyone has information about the rock-hounding areas in > Turkey. (or is it possible for foreigners to look for rocks in such > other countries). Here there is no such Rockounds groups yet, they are > only individuals mostly for commercial purposes... (I figured out only 3 > such people yet) > > Thanks > Yasin > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 1 14:27:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Rik Dillen) Date: Sat May 1 13:27:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Contact requested in France In-Reply-To: <001f01c42fb0$861fd840$34854c0c@fekib> Message-ID: <001e01c42fba$951217f0$553e88d9@maxdata> Larry, your "from-adress" bounced from here. I just wanted to let you know that I received already the snail mail adress. In order to preserve his privacy : part of the adress is appt 25 - le Montreal 42 (no, friends, its not in Canada...). Correct ? If so, no worries - I will handle it further. Sorry to all other list members for the inconvenience. Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15 B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium Tel. + 32 3 7706007 E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rush *Sent: zaterdag 1 mei 2004 21:14 *To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com *Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Contact requested in France * * *I have his home address if you need that..........Larry Rush * ----- Original Message ----- * From: Rik Dillen * To: Rockhounds * Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 2:37 PM * Subject: [Rockhounds] Contact requested in France * * * Since several days I try desperately to contact Yannick / *Yves Dain in France to warn him that a virus is active on his computer, * but his e-mail adres *ydain@wanadoo.fr is not working anymore. * Does anyone have a fax number or can someone contact him to *notify him ? * * To BCC: ccontacts only * Depuis quelques jours j'essaie de contacter Yannick / Yves *Dain en France pour le faire savoir qu' un virus est actif sur son * ordinateur, et son adresse e-mail ydain@wanadoo.fr ne *fonctionne plus. Est-ce quelqu'un d'entre vous connaît son *numéro de fax ou * est-ce que quelqu'un peut le contacter à ce sujet svp ? Merci ! * * Thanks and best regards, * * Rik DILLEN From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 1 17:08:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (robert) Date: Sat May 1 16:08:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] specimens for sale Message-ID: dear frank daniels, i have a copy of your book and i am interested in = seeeing some of the specimens you have for sale --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 1 17:08:30 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (robert) Date: Sat May 1 16:08:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] more Message-ID: my email is humboldtbob@hotmail.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 1 18:52:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sat May 1 17:52:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] History of Lapidary Equipment Makers Message-ID: <1a9.237574b5.2dc5a003@aol.com> Are you sure of this? I thought Star Diamond was bought by MK diamond. I know that when I bent my SD blade badly and I called the manufacturer' number found in the paper that came with it, MK answered the phone. Of course, MK took my blade and sent it to Barranca for the treatment. Maybe that's splitting hairs because there's some blood relationship between the companies. Barranca's owner is the son of MK's owner if my memory serves. While you're doing this, maybe it would be fun to get details of everyones old equipment and comments from long-time users. For instance. I have a FranTom 14 inch that has had an 18 inch blade in it. I'm using it in sump mode, but with a pump I'll bet I could squeeze a 20 incher in. I'd like to hear if other's over-inch their saws. In a message dated 5/1/2004 8:16:32 AM Pacific Standard Time, Kreigh@Tomaszewski.net writes: > Star Diamond was taken over by Barranca Diamond Products Inc. some > years ago; www.barrancadiamond.com or 310-532-5867. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 1 19:13:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sat May 1 18:13:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] History of Lapidary Equipment Makers Message-ID: <1f1.1f580a62.2dc5a4ed@aol.com> FranTom model F-4-14x.050 Year of manufacture: Unknown - mid '60s ? Features: Mechanical lead-screw automatic feed. Triple pulley to adjust feed rate. Optional hydraulic feed was available. What I like about it: easily handles an 18 inch blade for MUCH larger stones. Old and cheap. I don't feel bad about leaving it outside. What I don't like about it: Uses round brass bushings around 1" round steel bars for the main carriage. A small amount of wear leads to a lot of unwanted motion as varying pressure is applied to the stone while the cut progresses. The stone is above the centerline of the blade so pressure tends to lift the stone. The lead screw wears into the brass clamp used to drive the carriage, leading to slipping. (whirr , whirR, whiRR, whIRR, wHIRR, WHIRR, click, whirr, whirR, etc as pressure cycles) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 1 22:19:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (E. L. Jones) Date: Sat May 1 21:19:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] biotite now invalid? Message-ID: <409476E1.6030803@epix.net> So am I the only one just catching the news? Mindat says: "The CNMMN Subcommittee on Nomenclature of the Micas (1998, 1999) has recommended that the name biotite be used for a series including phlogopite, siderophyllite and eastonite, and is therefore no longer to be regarded as a species name." So what happens to the some 11 calcium-, titanium-, mangonian- etc biotites? Regards EJ From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 1 22:51:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sat May 1 21:51:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] biotite now invalid? References: <409476E1.6030803@epix.net> Message-ID: <000b01c43001$434655c0$93a6490c@pete> Well, I would say that biotite is still usable (and in use) as a MINERAL name, it is just not a MINERAL SPECIES name. That's not a totally logical statement, but I think it's the way most geologists look at it. You see a dark mica in a rock, and it's still biotite. I rather doubt that petrologists and geologists are going to start using the (more precisely defined; you need a complete chemical analysis) species names. Pete Modreski ----- Original Message ----- From: "E. L. Jones" To: Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 10:19 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] biotite now invalid? > So am I the only one just catching the news? > > Mindat says: > "The CNMMN Subcommittee on Nomenclature of the Micas (1998, 1999) has > recommended that the name biotite be used for a series including > phlogopite, siderophyllite and eastonite, and is therefore no longer to > be regarded as a species name." > > So what happens to the some 11 calcium-, titanium-, mangonian- etc > biotites? > > Regards > EJ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 2 06:33:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Don H) Date: Sun May 2 05:33:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] biotite now invalid? References: <409476E1.6030803@epix.net> Message-ID: <4094EB08.1D7DF0B3@att.net> "E. L. Jones" wrote: > > So am I the only one just catching the news? > > Mindat says: Well I don't know when that appeared on mindat, but it has been known for some time. Biotite is more accurately defined as a group now. However, as Pete pointed out, there is no point in changing the labels on your biotite specimens without a full analysis. Two weeks ago, I was speaking with some geologists and curators about this very topic, since it impacts a project I am working on. None of them were very eager to engage in the relabeling and were comfortable that the mica specimens in question should remain identified as biotite. Don From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 2 14:05:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun May 2 13:05:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Denver area rockshops Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20040502101651.02e88c90@mail.aloha.net> Hi All, Bill is going to the American Astronomical Society meeting in Denver, May 29 - June 5. He won't have time for collecting, but he will have a car and would like to check out a few rock shops. I checked the Internet and came up with a list of over 35 shops in the area (including Boulder, Colorado Springs, Golden, etc). Does anyone have any recommendations of shops that are particularly good, or are in an interesting location, or anything else that would make them noteworthy? He's not interesting jewelry, or very high end prices. Aloha, Kitty From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 2 14:15:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Rik Dillen) Date: Sun May 2 13:15:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] MINERANT 2004 NL-FR-EN Message-ID: <005d01c43081$fda2b5f0$67aaf151@maxdata> English version : see below - version Fran=E7aise : en bas =20 ***********************Nederlands********************** E=E9n keer per jaar maak ik misbruik van je e-mail adres... op 8 en 9 = mei 2004 (volgend week-end dus) is er weer Minerant, vanaf nu in Antwerp Expo (vroeger "Bouwcentrum") aan de Jan Van Rijswijcklaan. Je = geraakt er moeiteloos per auto (ruime parkeergelegenheid overal in de buurt) of met het openbaar vervoer (neem aan het Centraal = Station in Antwerpen tram 2 richting Hoboken, en stap uit voor de deur van Antwerp Expo). Open van 10 tot 18 h. =20 Je vindt er mineralen, fossielen, edelstenen, juwelen, boeken, = gereedschap, documentatie, honderden mineralenverzamelaars, ambiance, een schitterende bar waar je ook een hapje kunt eten, een = tentoonstelling "Fluorescentie, space shuttle Columbia en gestolen maanstenen =85" (een verhaal dat twee jaar geleden alle kranten ter = wereld haalde, en zelfs CNN !), je kunt er gratis edelstenen laten identificeren.... =20 Voor praktische gegevens, een liggingsplan enzovoort kun je best terecht = op de website = http://www.minerant.org/MKA/minerant.html =20 Stuur dit berichtje aub naar zoveel mogelijk mensen door, zodat met uw = hulp Minerant 2004 een succes wordt. =20 Tot volgend week-end in Antwerp Expo ! Met dank en vriendelijke groeten, =20 ***********************English************************* Once in a year I misuse your e-mail adress... on 8 - 9 May 2004 (next = week-end) we organise MINERANT, from now on in Antwerp Expo (formerly "Bouwcentrum") at the Jan Van Rijswijcklaan. Easy to reach by = car (and lots of parking space in the neighbourhood) or by public transport (from Central Station : tram 2, direction Hoboken, = stops in front of Antwerp Expo). Open from 10 to 18 h. =20 You will see minerals, fossils, gems, juwelry, books, tools, = documentation, hundreds of mineral collectors, ambiance, a splendid bar where you can also eat something, an exhibition on "Fluorescence, space = shuttle columbia and stolen moon rocks" (a story that two years ago made his way to all the worlds newspapers and television = chains, including CNN !), free identification of gems etc. =20 For practical data go to http://www.minerant.org/MKA/minerant.html =20 Please forward this message to as many people as possible, to make = Minerant 2004 to a success ! See you next week-end in Antwerp. Thanks and best regards, =20 ***********************Fran=E7ais********************************* Chaque ann=E9e j'abuse votre adresse e-mail pour l'=E9v=E9nement = MINERANT 2004, =E0 partir de maintenant =E0 "antwerp Expo" (anciennement "Bouwcentrum"), Jan Van Rijswijcklaan =E0 Anvers. Vous pouvez atteindre = cette location facilement en voiture (parkings abondantes dans le quartier) o=F9 par le transport publique (prenez le tram 2 =E0 la = gare centrale, sortir du tram en face du b=E2timent "antwerp Expo"). Heures d'ouverture 10-18 h. =20 Il y aura des min=E9raux, fossiles, pierres pr=E9cieuses, bijoux, = instruments, livres, documentations, des centaines de collectionneurs de min=E9raux, une ambiance splendide, un bar avec petite restauration, = une exhibition "Fluorescence, space shuttle Columbia et roches de lune vol=E9es" (une histoire qui faisait son entr=E9e dans tous les = journaux mondiales, y compris CNN), identification gratuite des pierres pr=E9cieuses etc. =20 Vous trouverez de plus amples informations via = http://www.minerant.org/MKA/minerant.html =20 Je vous prie de transmettre ce message =E0 tous les personnes = int=E9ress=E9e, de sorte que Minerant 2004 soit un grand succes ! J'esp=E8re de vous rencontrer =E0 Anvers le week-end prochain. Merci et meilleures salutations, =20 Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15 B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium =20 Tel. + 32 3 7706007 E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be =20 Homepage : = http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals (ardennite, vantasselite, ferristrunzite and more) >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list =20 MINERANT 2004 - 8 and 9 May 2004 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html =20 Mineral collector's page = http://www.minerant.org/ >>> The Dana errata page, the Virtual Quarry and much more ! =20 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 2 18:59:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Paul Hewitt) Date: Sun May 2 17:59:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] flourite rough References: <20040426010002.19583.93823.Mailman@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <408C6E78.D373D421@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000c01c430a9$cc86a940$6401a8c0@netgear> Hello all ... I have been perusing the internet for about a week now trying to find a source for flourite tumbling rough. In all my travels I have only found one website that sells the stuff. I bought a few pounds from him a couple of years ago and was sadly disappointed with what I received so I am a little loathe to try him again. If anyone has some flourite rough or know someone who does I would greatly appreciate it if you would let me know. You can contact me off list at pbhewitt@comcast.net if you like. Thanks, Paul From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 2 20:16:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun May 2 19:16:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] flourite rough References: <20040426010002.19583.93823.Mailman@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <408C6E78.D373D421@earthlink.net> <000c01c430a9$cc86a940$6401a8c0@netgear> Message-ID: <4095AB55.322D@Tomaszewski.net> Paul Hewitt wrote: > > Hello all ... I have been perusing the internet for about a week now trying > to find a source for flourite tumbling rough. In all my travels I have only > found one website that sells the stuff. I bought a few pounds from him a > couple of years ago and was sadly disappointed with what I received so I am > a little loathe to try him again. If anyone has some flourite rough or know > someone who does I would greatly appreciate it if you would let me know. > You can contact me off list at > pbhewitt@comcast.net if you like. > > Thanks, > Paul Paul, When it is mined commercially they refer to it as fluorspar. Go to Google and do a search for "bulk fluorspar" and check out hundreds of suppliers -- you probably can't get less than a barrel as many of these folks sell by the rail car load. Good luck! Kreigh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 2 21:25:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Frederick Olmstead) Date: Sun May 2 20:25:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Corridor H References: <409086D2.C7C@rcn.com> Message-ID: <4095BE9F.482A@rcn.com> HELLO IF YOU SEARCH THE 'NET' FOR CORRIDOR H YOU WILL COME UP WITH MUCH INFORMATION ABOUT THE PROJECT, SECTIONS BY SECTIN OF THE PROJECT WITH MAPS. I WAS INTERESTED - SPECIFICALLY - ABOUT AN AREA ON THE RECENTLY COMPLETED SECTIN OF CORRIDOR H - ON CORRIDOR H, NEAR BAKER. A NOT VERY INTERESTING ROAD CUT - NOT TOO MANY 'BERMS' BUT WHAT CAUGHT MY EYE WAS WHAT LOOKED LIKE RIPPLE MARKS. YES!! I CHECKED IT OUT AND THERE ARE SEVERAL 'LAYERS' OF RIPPLE MARKS. STRATA ALMOST STRAIGHT UP HERE. AS YOU WALK ALONG THE BERM, ABOUT EVERY SIX FEET OR SO THERE IS A 'LAYER' OF RIPPLE MARKS GOING UP THE STRATA. I TOOK SOME PHOTOS AND TALKED TO A STATE TROOPER WHO HAPPENED BY AND WAS CURIOUS AS TO WHAT I WAS DOING. I EXPLAINED - TAKING PICTURES OF RIPPLE MARKS. I SHOWED HIM SOME SLICKENSIDES AND SOME CRINOIDS A FEW INCHES UNDER ONE LAYER AND HE WAS INTERESTED - HE HAD TAKEN SOME GEOLOGY OR SUCH... HE HAD SEEN ME EARLER - HAD PASSED BY ME A COUPLE OF TIMES WHEN I WAS WORKING ON A SIDE ROAD (A JASPER BURNS SITE) ON THE OTHER (SOUTH?) SIDE OF BAKER ON A DIFFERENT ROAD, AND WONDERED WHAT I WAS DOING. GeorgiaO .....:) __..--..__..--..__.. Seeking info > on fossils > geology > on the new section of Corridor H West Virginia between Baker and Moorefield (especially near Baker) thank you GeorgiaO From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 3 02:47:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (E. L. Jones) Date: Mon May 3 01:47:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide Message-ID: <4096073A.5020306@epix.net> Anyone know if carbide( as in carbide lamp fuel for the younger folks) is still available in the US? If so, from whom/where? Thanks Elton From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 3 03:41:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Jennifer Wynn Stoll) Date: Mon May 3 02:41:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Imahashi USD-150C Message-ID: <004b01c3a009$44fa25a0$0200a8c0@JennifersComp> Are any of these drills for sale. Please reply to John Stoll at = jostoll@yahoo.com This is my wife's email. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 3 05:12:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon May 3 04:12:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Flint Ridge Ohio Message-ID: <90.45ba0f93.2dc782c9@aol.com> Does anyone know if there are any sites still open to collecting in the Flint Ridge Ohio area? Gary --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 3 06:53:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Van) Date: Mon May 3 05:53:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] biotite now invalid? References: <409476E1.6030803@epix.net> <4094EB08.1D7DF0B3@att.net> Message-ID: <005601c4310d$6b3f6870$c3ff4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> Ditto what Don said. The modern emergence of annite as a name began with Winchell in the 1920's. Annite was introduced by Dana, but it was more akin to siderophyllite than what was being called biotite. Annite didn't seem to get much acceptance until the 1960's and there began a new generation of young bucks using the nomenclature - probably promoted by Yale graduates. Whenever one looks at a dictionary of mineralogy, one has the illusion that nomenclature is rigid and that mineralogists are in "lock step" with what one sees in the lists. Reality is much more fluid. Some of the journals expect that if you use one of the more peculiar mineral names that you explain what you think the name means in justification of its use. (The war of the lumpers vs. the splitters continues.) If you look through Hey's Chemical Index of Minerals you soon learn that there are thousands of names which have not been studied enough to understand what they are today, although there are many generic guesses. These "old" names represent a huge population of minerals needing proper characterization and there are undoubtedly many of the names which could be resurrected. Over the last few centuries, the "duck test"* for what a mineral is has changed. BTW Biotite can also include zinnwaldite and other black micas. Van P.S. *Duck test. If it talks like a duck, walks like a duck, and looks like a duck - it's a duck. P.P.S. I was particularly unhappy that lepidolite was recently defined as a group and is no longer a species. As a mica mineralogist, I object to it's unnecessary redefinition. (More work by young bucks.) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don H" To: Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] biotite now invalid? > "E. L. Jones" wrote: > > > > So am I the only one just catching the news? > > > > Mindat says: > > Well I don't know when that appeared on mindat, but it has been known > for some time. Biotite is more accurately defined as a group now. > However, as Pete pointed out, there is no point in changing the labels > on your biotite specimens without a full analysis. Two weeks ago, I was > speaking with some geologists and curators about this very topic, since > it impacts a project I am working on. None of them were very eager to > engage in the relabeling and were comfortable that the mica specimens in > question should remain identified as biotite. > > Don > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 3 12:45:10 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon May 3 11:45:10 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide In-Reply-To: <4096073A.5020306@epix.net> Message-ID: Sure, the chemical name is actually Calcium Carbide and I found a couple suppliers in 15 seconds on the web: http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_list.asp?cls=25886&par=&cat=&sch=8 52&sku=&sel= http://www.calcium-carbide.com/ goggle "calcium carbide" for a lot more if those do not satisfy. The Cole Parmer material is probably reagent grade and thus a lot more expensive. Bryan Lex et Libertas -- Semper Vigilo, Paratus, et Fidelis! > Anyone know if carbide( as in carbide lamp fuel for the younger folks) > is still available in the US? > > If so, from whom/where? > > Thanks > Elton > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 3 12:47:10 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Ted) Date: Mon May 3 11:47:10 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide In-Reply-To: <4096073A.5020306@epix.net> Message-ID: <000701c4311d$ec71a560$0200a8c0@gametime> Elton: Lots of places, first check with your local Acetylene supplier. Carbide is used to generate acetylene and your local acetylene supplier just might have some cans of carbide. There are many suppliers on the web, just include acetylene into the search. Here is one that I hit quickly, though I have never ordered from them. http://www.calcium-carbide.com/. Now for the inevitable safety warning: http://www.state.nj.us/health/eoh/rtkweb/0312.pdf Carbide and damp environments are a definite no no. Also read all the safety and handling warnings for carbide and acetylene. It is a very dangerous gas and spontaneously explodes above a certain pressure, (15PSIG). This pressure is easily reached in sealed glass jars containing decomposing carbide. What does this all mean? I definitely would not store cans of carbide anywhere near my house and I would seriously consider leaving it in my garage for even a short period of time. Acetylene can form pockets of gas (it doesn't disperse in still air) and is set off by the smallest spark (light switches, car motors, etc.). I have witnessed carbide generated acetylene explosions and can't express my respect for this stuff enough. Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA Ted@Crystalgems.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of E. L. Jones Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 4:48 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide Anyone know if carbide( as in carbide lamp fuel for the younger folks) is still available in the US? If so, from whom/where? Thanks Elton _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 3 12:50:19 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon May 3 11:50:19 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] flourite rough Message-ID: <1aa.235d8452.2dc7e2eb@aol.com> I would try contacting a flouride mines like: http://www.rockcandymine.com/ or perhaps this website could help you: http://www.geologyadventures.com/big_rock_candy.htm E-mail : bob@geologyadventures.com Postal address: PO Box 809, Ravensdale, WA 98051 Phone/FAX: (425)413-1122 - 24 hour answering machine. At least it's a start... T. McGinnis --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 3 12:50:31 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Richard Sittinger) Date: Mon May 3 11:50:31 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Colorado Appraiser References: <90.45ba0f93.2dc782c9@aol.com> Message-ID: <00e001c4313c$1e730630$2dfccd18@D1J5D241> Hello All, One of Club members has asked me about recommending an appraiser for her mineral collection. She lives in the Colorado Springs area. Anyone have a good recommendation I can pass along? Thanks in advance! Richard Sittinger Mineral of the Month Club From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 3 13:03:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Mon May 3 12:03:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Denver area rockshops In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.0.20040502101651.02e88c90@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: Hi Kitty, I have been to two rockshops in the Denver area, but one of them (Moss Rock Shop in Englewood) closed a couple years ago. The other is Red & Green Minerals in Lakewood (a southwestern suburb of Denver). It has lots of low-priced stuff (specimens, lapidary, old magazines, crystal rough, tools, etc). The main problem I can see with it is that many of their mineral specimens don't have much info on their labels (e.g. "Fluorite Illinois") and have been sitting on the shelves for decades. But, sometimes that is where you can find the best stuff and deals. It is located on Florida Ave. just east of Wadsworth Blvd. http://www.red-greenminerals.com/ There is also a rock shop on Wadsworth Blvd. just south of US highway 6 (6th Ave). It's on the west side of Wadsworth in a tiny strip mall and I think it is new (possibly relocated from a different location). I haven't been in it, but I have a feeling it might be a little higher priced and have more gems and crystals than specimens. I'll try to check it out in the next few days. There is a rock shop in Golden called Eggers, but I haven't been to it yet. It's supposed to be pretty good but I'm not sure what they specialize in. Sorry, but that's all I can contribute. Maybe others will have more experience with the shops around here. I like to dig for my specimens, not buy them. ;-) Bob Loeffler Field Trip Chairman and webmaster North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) http://www.peaktopeak.com/njeffco/index.php Denver Gem & Mineral Show webmaster http://www.denvermineralshow.com Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: http://www.peaktopeak.com/colorado/index.php -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill Heacox Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 2:29 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Denver area rockshops Hi All, Bill is going to the American Astronomical Society meeting in Denver, May 29 - June 5. He won't have time for collecting, but he will have a car and would like to check out a few rock shops. I checked the Internet and came up with a list of over 35 shops in the area (including Boulder, Colorado Springs, Golden, etc). Does anyone have any recommendations of shops that are particularly good, or are in an interesting location, or anything else that would make them noteworthy? He's not interesting jewelry, or very high end prices. Aloha, Kitty _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 3 13:09:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon May 3 12:09:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide Message-ID: <050320041908.25541.409698B800045DA2000063C52161243646FF96948C9A8D9B909295@att.net> I used to use carbide for my carbide lamps, for both caving and mineral collecting in mines. I still have several lamps, of course, and I even still have an old can or two of carbide, which still has some undeteriorated & usable carbide in it (on exposure to moisture in the atmosphere, of course, it gradually reacts to form a powder of calcium hydroxide, and ultimately calcium carbonate). (No, I'm not offering to give away or sell the carbide--just sharing reminiscences!) The cans themselves that I have, are kind of becoming collector's items! But I think it's been some years, since I've actually ever used the carbide lamps underground--not all that many years, though (maybe 10, maybe less). I would think that suppliers of gear for cavers, might still sell cans of carbide--you might try that on the internet. (I just tried searching thus, on Google--found a place that sells carbide on the first shot. That first company I found happened to have been in the UK so it's probably not where you'd want to order anything, so I won't give the address--I'll let you find something yourself.) (Actually, I looked at that site again--I see they sell carbide lamps & accessories, and container for carrying carbide, but not the actually material itself--but obviously, that must be available elsewhere.) There was always something pleasantly old-fashioned and adventuresome about using carbide lamps underground, instead of just batteries! (Even the lamps would periodically clog and stop working--which I guess doesn't happen that often, if you keep them clean.) best of luck, Pete, Denver CO From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 3 13:10:59 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon May 3 12:10:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Denver area rockshops Message-ID: <050320041910.27734.4096993000067E4800006C562161243646FF96948C9A8D9B909295@att.net> Hi Bob/Kitty, As you may have guessed, I can send some suggestions about rock shops. I'll send you an email later today when I have a little time, with some specifics. There are also a few places who don't maintain public shops, but will let collectors visit "by appointment" and see what they have. sincerely, Pete Modreski From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 3 13:14:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon May 3 12:14:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Colorado Appraiser Message-ID: <050320041913.1133.409699F7000AF3180000046D2161243646FF96948C9A8D9B909295@att.net> Dear Richard, I can recommend some people to you for your customer, who can do appraisals here in Colorado. I'll probably send you a message later on, offline from the Rockhounds postings. Who to contact will depend on how "high end" or not her collection is--some of the people who do this are more appropriate for appraising collections where all the specimens are in the 3-to-4-figure value range, others would be more ready to appraise a "more modest" collection. Sincerely, Pete Modreski, Denver CO pjmodreski@att.net From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 3 13:25:03 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Frank de Wit) Date: Mon May 3 12:25:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide References: <050320041908.25541.409698B800045DA2000063C52161243646FF96948C9A8D9B909295@att.net> Message-ID: <02b801c43144$3046cce0$aa7ba8c0@cm333814lt> underground they hate me for my smell but they love to have me around for the best light there is carbide lights out large rooms underground, where electric light only gives you tunnel-vision (yep, I have a carbide fetisch, and use it almost every weekend underground) [i love the after smell also driving back in the car; the lamp still fuming a little ;-) i just buy my carbide in the nearby rockclimbing shop, but also bought it earlier at a speleo shop if you buy carbide, make sure you buy the stuff that is already in small pieces last weekend I was underground somewhere and had to refresh my carbide shit, only large chunks in my plastic can; so I had to hammer it into small pieces but the floor was muddy, no hard rock to put the carbide on, and carbide is almost the hardest stuff you can hammer on... the only solution then is to put the carbide on one hammer, and hammer on it with the other hammer (do you carry 2 hammers?) keep one hand in front of your eyes, you don't want carbide-chips in your eye... and hammer with the other one and then find the smaller pieces everywhere around you in the mud (in the almost dark with a little electric light of the others ;-) the others had a lot of fun waiting for me ;-) someone also said: 'wait until he runs our of water'.... :-) does carbide also run on coca cola ? hojje! frank www.strahlen.org ps: as you can read... electric light is boring... ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 9:08 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > I used to use carbide for my carbide lamps, for both caving and mineral collecting in mines. I still have several lamps, of course, and I even still have an old can or two of carbide, which still has some undeteriorated & usable carbide in it (on exposure to moisture in the atmosphere, of course, it gradually reacts to form a powder of calcium hydroxide, and ultimately calcium carbonate). (No, I'm not offering to give away or sell the carbide--just sharing reminiscences!) The cans themselves that I have, are kind of becoming collector's items! But I think it's been some years, since I've actually ever used the carbide lamps underground--not all that many years, though (maybe 10, maybe less). > > I would think that suppliers of gear for cavers, might still sell cans of carbide--you might try that on the internet. (I just tried searching thus, on Google--found a place that sells carbide on the first shot. That first company I found happened to have been in the UK so it's probably not where you'd want to order anything, so I won't give the address--I'll let you find something yourself.) (Actually, I looked at that site again--I see they sell carbide lamps & accessories, and container for carrying carbide, but not the actually material itself--but obviously, that must be available elsewhere.) > > There was always something pleasantly old-fashioned and adventuresome about using carbide lamps underground, instead of just batteries! (Even the lamps would periodically clog and stop working--which I guess doesn't happen that often, if you keep them clean.) > > best of luck, > Pete, Denver CO > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 3 14:14:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Mon May 3 13:14:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide In-Reply-To: <02b801c43144$3046cce0$aa7ba8c0@cm333814lt> Message-ID: Hi Frank (and the others) >someone also said: 'wait until he runs our of water'.... :-) >does carbide also run on coca cola ? Guess not, cola is a solution of CO2. When you dissolve anything else in the cola (like sugar) the CO2 is driven out. Using cola in your carbide lamp would produce CO2 as well as acetylene. Depending on the amount of CO2 it will extinguish your flame. The solution is simple. Drink the cola and pee into your lamp! Cheers, Maurice hojje! frank www.strahlen.org ps: as you can read... electric light is boring... ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 9:08 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > I used to use carbide for my carbide lamps, for both caving and mineral collecting in mines. I still have several lamps, of course, and I even still have an old can or two of carbide, which still has some undeteriorated & usable carbide in it (on exposure to moisture in the atmosphere, of course, it gradually reacts to form a powder of calcium hydroxide, and ultimately calcium carbonate). (No, I'm not offering to give away or sell the carbide--just sharing reminiscences!) The cans themselves that I have, are kind of becoming collector's items! But I think it's been some years, since I've actually ever used the carbide lamps underground--not all that many years, though (maybe 10, maybe less). > > I would think that suppliers of gear for cavers, might still sell cans of carbide--you might try that on the internet. (I just tried searching thus, on Google--found a place that sells carbide on the first shot. That first company I found happened to have been in the UK so it's probably not where you'd want to order anything, so I won't give the address--I'll let you find something yourself.) (Actually, I looked at that site again--I see they sell carbide lamps & accessories, and container for carrying carbide, but not the actually material itself--but obviously, that must be available elsewhere.) > > There was always something pleasantly old-fashioned and adventuresome about using carbide lamps underground, instead of just batteries! (Even the lamps would periodically clog and stop working--which I guess doesn't happen that often, if you keep them clean.) > > best of luck, > Pete, Denver CO > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 3 14:44:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Frank de Wit) Date: Mon May 3 13:44:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide References: Message-ID: <02ec01c4314f$3e3fea10$aa7ba8c0@cm333814lt> that will smell even worse than carbide :-( did you ever pee into a burning fire when you where young? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice de Graaf" To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:13 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > Hi Frank (and the others) > > >someone also said: 'wait until he runs our of water'.... :-) > >does carbide also run on coca cola ? > > Guess not, cola is a solution of CO2. When you dissolve anything else in the > cola (like sugar) the CO2 is driven out. Using cola in your carbide lamp > would produce CO2 as well as acetylene. Depending on the amount of CO2 it > will extinguish your flame. > > The solution is simple. Drink the cola and pee into your lamp! > > Cheers, > Maurice > > > > hojje! frank > www.strahlen.org > > ps: as you can read... electric light is boring... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 9:08 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > > I used to use carbide for my carbide lamps, for both caving and mineral > collecting in mines. I still have several lamps, of course, and I even > still have an old can or two of carbide, which still has some undeteriorated > & usable carbide in it (on exposure to moisture in the atmosphere, of > course, it gradually reacts to form a powder of calcium hydroxide, and > ultimately calcium carbonate). (No, I'm not offering to give away or sell > the carbide--just sharing reminiscences!) The cans themselves that I have, > are kind of becoming collector's items! But I think it's been some years, > since I've actually ever used the carbide lamps underground--not all that > many years, though (maybe 10, maybe less). > > > > I would think that suppliers of gear for cavers, might still sell cans of > carbide--you might try that on the internet. (I just tried searching thus, > on Google--found a place that sells carbide on the first shot. That first > company I found happened to have been in the UK so it's probably not where > you'd want to order anything, so I won't give the address--I'll let you find > something yourself.) (Actually, I looked at that site again--I see they > sell carbide lamps & accessories, and container for carrying carbide, but > not the actually material itself--but obviously, that must be available > elsewhere.) > > > > There was always something pleasantly old-fashioned and adventuresome > about using carbide lamps underground, instead of just batteries! (Even the > lamps would periodically clog and stop working--which I guess doesn't happen > that often, if you keep them clean.) > > > > best of luck, > > Pete, Denver CO > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 3 14:49:09 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Gary Brown) Date: Mon May 3 13:49:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide In-Reply-To: <02ec01c4314f$3e3fea10$aa7ba8c0@cm333814lt> Message-ID: <004c01c43150$385c8a30$6501a8c0@moose> I do, however, remember a friend having to do it back in the 70's when I caved in the Black Hills... gcb > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Frank de Wit > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 3:43 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > that will smell even worse than carbide :-( > did you ever pee into a burning fire when you where young? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Maurice de Graaf" > To: > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:13 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > > Hi Frank (and the others) > > > > >someone also said: 'wait until he runs our of water'.... :-) does > > >carbide also run on coca cola ? > > > > Guess not, cola is a solution of CO2. When you dissolve > anything else > > in > the > > cola (like sugar) the CO2 is driven out. Using cola in your carbide > > lamp would produce CO2 as well as acetylene. Depending on > the amount > > of CO2 it will extinguish your flame. > > > > The solution is simple. Drink the cola and pee into your lamp! > > > > Cheers, > > Maurice From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 3 15:01:09 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Paul Hewitt) Date: Mon May 3 14:01:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] flourite rough References: <20040426010002.19583.93823.Mailman@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <408C6E78.D373D421@earthlink.net> <000c01c430a9$cc86a940$6401a8c0@netgear> <4095AB55.322D@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <001c01c43151$a481f9b0$6401a8c0@netgear> > > When it is mined commercially they refer to it as fluorspar. Go to > Google and do a search for "bulk fluorspar" and check out hundreds of > suppliers -- you probably can't get less than a barrel as many of these > folks sell by the rail car load. > > Good luck! > > Kreigh Thanks Kreigh, I did what you said and you were right. I came up with about a gazillion websites. I have not found one to order from yet though. I have several email inquiries about order size and prices. Thanks again, Paul From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 3 15:04:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (SHM) Date: Mon May 3 14:04:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide In-Reply-To: <02ec01c4314f$3e3fea10$aa7ba8c0@cm333814lt> Message-ID: <000801c43152$22e5c7a0$c3e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> that will smell even worse than carbide :-( did you ever pee into a burning fire when you where young? - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The frequency of this activity probably increases rather than decreases with age. For us aging field collectors we are learning that our bladders, once made of the finest steel, now seem to be made of waxed paper. Not only that, but we drink beer, lots of it after swinging those hammers all day. We have to build BIG fires because we are constantly extinguishing parts of them all night long. But with age comes wisdom: now we automatically stand upwind without even having to think about it. Cheers- Earl From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 3 16:20:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon May 3 15:20:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide References: <4096073A.5020306@epix.net> Message-ID: <4096C560.A52@Tomaszewski.net> E. L. Jones wrote: > > Anyone know if carbide( as in carbide lamp fuel for the younger folks) > is still available in the US? > > If so, from whom/where? > > Thanks > Elton J. K. Dey and Sons still makes carbide lamps and generators; www.jkdey.com I assume there are others out there too. try google. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 3 16:26:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Richard Sittinger) Date: Mon May 3 15:26:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Colorado Appraiser References: <050320041913.1133.409699F7000AF3180000046D2161243646FF96948C9A8D9B909295@att.net> Message-ID: <013201c4315d$35ace7a0$2dfccd18@D1J5D241> Hi Pete, Thanks for getting back. Our Club member definitely has a more modest collection, and any suggestions you make will be much appreciated. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 12:13 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Colorado Appraiser > Dear Richard, > > I can recommend some people to you for your customer, who can do appraisals here in Colorado. I'll probably send you a message later on, offline from the Rockhounds postings. Who to contact will depend on how "high end" or not her collection is--some of the people who do this are more appropriate for appraising collections where all the specimens are in the 3-to-4-figure value range, others would be more ready to appraise a "more modest" collection. > > Sincerely, Pete Modreski, Denver CO pjmodreski@att.net > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 3 16:59:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon May 3 15:59:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] boys will be boys In-Reply-To: <000801c43152$22e5c7a0$c3e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> References: <02ec01c4314f$3e3fea10$aa7ba8c0@cm333814lt> <000801c43152$22e5c7a0$c3e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20040503121936.03a310f0@mail.aloha.net> OK now boys, behave! Back in January 2002 Kreigh started a Totally Off The Wall Question in relation to his observation that about 75% of rockhounds have beards. Now we're talking about peeing in fires. Come on, Anita? Margaret? Sherry? Teresa? Georgia? Gloria? Dri-Anna? Liz? Cathy? Jackie? Dawn? Any of the other 30 or so women on the list ever pee in a fire? I do recall a collecting trip Bill and I went on with another couple. At the end of the day we finished loading the car just as it got dark, and the other gal and I went off into the bushes before the long trip back. The guys made jokes about how the women always have to make pit stops and slow things down, and they stood around in front of the car finishing off some beer while they waited for us. We were not far from a stream, so the water made enough noise that the men didn't hear us coming back to the car, and apparently they had just decided that they did need to relieve themselves after all. My friend and I got in the car and I turned on the engine and the headlights and there were the two men about 15 meters away, one standing in the beam of each headlight, doing their thing, so to speak. Aloha, Kitty At 11:02 AM 5/3/2004, you wrote: >that will smell even worse than carbide :-( >did you ever pee into a burning fire when you where young? >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > >The frequency of this activity probably increases rather than decreases with >age. For us aging field collectors we are learning that our bladders, once >made of the finest steel, now seem to be made of waxed paper. Not only >that, but we drink beer, lots of it after swinging those hammers all day. >We have to build BIG fires because we are constantly extinguishing parts of >them all night long. But with age comes wisdom: now we automatically stand >upwind without even having to think about it. > > Cheers- Earl > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 3 17:15:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Mon May 3 16:15:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] boys will be boys References: <02ec01c4314f$3e3fea10$aa7ba8c0@cm333814lt> <000801c43152$22e5c7a0$c3e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> <6.0.3.0.0.20040503121936.03a310f0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <004201c43164$737b7d60$7c01a8c0@useree0kkeoj3m> Dear Kitty; Some may disagree, but you should know that, for males, the sole purpose of any bonfire is to be peed upon. It may happen sooner, it may happen later, but it's gonna happen. Dogs have fire hydrants, guys have bonfires; it's a fact of life celebrated in every lowbrow cartoon comedy. It's even mentioned in Gulliver's Travels; remember the Lilliputian town heroically saved from fire - the secret fantasy of every male, large or small. Cheers, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 7:23 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] boys will be boys > OK now boys, behave! > > Back in January 2002 Kreigh started a Totally Off The Wall Question in > relation to his observation that about 75% of rockhounds have beards. Now > we're talking about peeing in fires. Come on, Anita? Margaret? > Sherry? Teresa? Georgia? Gloria? Dri-Anna? Liz? Cathy? Jackie? > Dawn? Any of the other 30 or so women on the list ever pee in a fire? miscellaneous naughtiness snipped From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 3 17:27:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Duane) Date: Mon May 3 16:27:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] boys will be boys In-Reply-To: <004201c43164$737b7d60$7c01a8c0@useree0kkeoj3m> References: <02ec01c4314f$3e3fea10$aa7ba8c0@cm333814lt> <000801c43152$22e5c7a0$c3e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> <6.0.3.0.0.20040503121936.03a310f0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <4.3.1.0.20040503191806.00d14788@pop.megalink.net> At 07:14 PM 5/3/2004 -0400, you wrote: Dachshunds must be in on this fantasy also; I was helping a retired couple move from a store they had owned and worked in for 30 plus years and they had a middle aged dachshund. It was cold this last January and the couple had one of those old 1950's wire coil heaters going full blast. Part way into the project the dog gave the heater a thorough hosing and drove everyone out side for over an hour !!! They couldn't open the windows as the pipes would freeze. At last, like with hydrogen sulphide, our nose nerves got numb and worked resumed. At least this stuff couldn't kill us (I don't think). New helpers would arrive, go into the store and come right back out with the wildest facial expressions. We just have to get cable up here !!!! --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.672 / Virus Database: 434 - Release Date: 4/28/2004 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 3 17:31:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon May 3 16:31:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] boys will be boys In-Reply-To: <004201c43164$737b7d60$7c01a8c0@useree0kkeoj3m> References: <02ec01c4314f$3e3fea10$aa7ba8c0@cm333814lt> <000801c43152$22e5c7a0$c3e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> <6.0.3.0.0.20040503121936.03a310f0@mail.aloha.net> <004201c43164$737b7d60$7c01a8c0@useree0kkeoj3m> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20040503134236.039ca730@mail.aloha.net> Here in Hawaii there's another heroic possibility for males: Urine is an effective treatment to relieve the sting of jellyfish, and it's not at all uncommon when a kid runs screaming out of the ocean having obviously had an encounter with a box jellyfish, for a man or some boys to come sauntering over with the attitude of "Well, somebody's got to do da kine for the keiki." ("da kine' is pidgin for "something" or "that sort of thing" and "keiki" is Hawaiian for "child"). (Most mothers bring a jar of meat tenderizer along as a more sanitary sting antidote!) Aloha, Kitty At 01:14 PM 5/3/2004, you wrote: >Dear Kitty; > >Some may disagree, but you should know that, for males, the sole purpose of >any bonfire is to be peed upon. It may happen sooner, it may happen later, >but it's gonna happen. Dogs have fire hydrants, guys have bonfires; it's a >fact of life celebrated in every lowbrow cartoon comedy. It's even mentioned >in Gulliver's Travels; remember the Lilliputian town heroically saved from >fire - the secret fantasy of every male, large or small. > >Cheers, > >Tim > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" >To: >Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 7:23 PM >Subject: [Rockhounds] boys will be boys > > > > OK now boys, behave! > > > > Back in January 2002 Kreigh started a Totally Off The Wall Question in > > relation to his observation that about 75% of rockhounds have beards. Now > > we're talking about peeing in fires. Come on, Anita? Margaret? > > Sherry? Teresa? Georgia? Gloria? Dri-Anna? Liz? Cathy? Jackie? > > Dawn? Any of the other 30 or so women on the list ever pee in a fire? >miscellaneous naughtiness snipped > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 3 20:51:51 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon May 3 19:51:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] boys will be boys Message-ID: In a message dated 5/3/2004 5:59:23 PM Central Daylight Time, kahako@aloha.net writes: OK now boys, behave! Back in January 2002 Kreigh started a Totally Off The Wall Question in relation to his observation that about 75% of rockhounds have beards. Now we're talking about peeing in fires. Come on, Anita? Margaret? Sherry? Teresa? Georgia? Gloria? Dri-Anna? Liz? Cathy? Jackie? Dawn? Any of the other 30 or so women on the list ever pee in a fire? I do recall a collecting trip Bill and I went on with another couple. At the end of the day we finished loading the car just as it got dark, and the other gal and I went off into the bushes before the long trip back. The guys made jokes about how the women always have to make pit stops and slow things down, and they stood around in front of the car finishing off some beer while they waited for us. We were not far from a stream, so the water made enough noise that the men didn't hear us coming back to the car, and apparently they had just decided that they did need to relieve themselves after all. My friend and I got in the car and I turned on the engine and the headlights and there were the two men about 15 meters away, one standing in the beam of each headlight, doing their thing, so to speak. Aloha, Kitty Great story Kitty - I for one (of the gals) have never pee'd in a fire, nor tried to do it the farthest, or write anything either. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 3 21:12:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Johan Maertens) Date: Mon May 3 20:12:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] About a recent calcite crystal acquisition from Logansport, Cass County, Indiana, USA In-Reply-To: <20040404020003.4572.14304.Mailman@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: I am describing a recent calcite crystal acquisition from Logansport, Cass County, Indiana, USA I purchased from Joe Kielbaso. Would somebody be able to provide me with a scan of an article that appeared in Rocks & Min. Number 61 on pages 143 and 144 about An aggregate quarry in Kenneth Limestone member and underlying Kokomo Limestone members of the Saline Formation? What quarry would the calcite be mined from? Johan Maertens mineral.maertens @ att.net Do you like minerals and other earth treasures? Visit the Mineral Collectors Page by the Mineral Club of Antwerp at http://www.minerant.org Enjoy the beauty of calcite and join the International Calcite Collectors Association Visit http://www.minerant.org/clubs/icca.html or http://www.rockhounds.com/icca/ Just bought a quiet new device, a phoneless cord. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 3 21:12:14 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Erwin WTP) Date: Mon May 3 20:12:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] English Boroughs, Counties, London Boroughs, Districts, Cities, Royal Boroughs In-Reply-To: <050320041910.27734.4096993000067E4800006C562161243646FF969 48C9A8D9B909295@att.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040503221050.00a8dcb8@mail.charter.net> I need some help from someone familiar with UK Political structure. In the mineral database I am writing, I have fields for 1 Country 2 State Province Department or other Large Political Boundary 3 County, Prefecture, 4 City Now each country is of course different but I have decided to use state for "first-order administrative divisions" Is the "County" in UK "first-order administrative divisions" Do all boroughs totally reside within one county? The beauty of collecting minerals more than any other collectible that I can think of is that you have to be a bloody expert on geography as well as geology as well as chemistry as well as geometry as well as aesthetics. Obviously over the years names change and I have decided pretty much to standardize on the current CIA data. And field 2 is to be "first-order administrative divisions" If you were writing a location label for a mineral from Great Britain, how would you write it? UK, England , Cornwall, ??borough??, ??district?? (and then Mine of course) Is a borough or a district a subunit of a county or an entity to itself. Tommy Armstrong --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by SurrealNET Online] From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 3 21:23:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon May 3 20:23:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] boys will be boys References: <02ec01c4314f$3e3fea10$aa7ba8c0@cm333814lt> <000801c43152$22e5c7a0$c3e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> <6.0.3.0.0.20040503121936.03a310f0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <40970C57.4082@Tomaszewski.net> Kitty, At a recent IMRMC meeting we had a lady geologist tell us about her experiences with the USGS Survey in Alaska's 'outback'. She told us how the otherwise mail crew had used their truck's rear tire for relief -- until she purchased a funnel and joined them, ending a lot of problems. It was a most interesting presentation with some great pictures. I like 'off the wall' questions -- and solutions! (no apology for the pun either) Kreigh P.S., Is Bill presenting when he goes to Denver, or 'just' learning and hobknobbing with his fellow wizards? Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > OK now boys, behave! > > Back in January 2002 Kreigh started a Totally Off The Wall Question in > relation to his observation that about 75% of rockhounds have beards. Now > we're talking about peeing in fires. Come on, Anita? Margaret? > Sherry? Teresa? Georgia? Gloria? Dri-Anna? Liz? Cathy? Jackie? > Dawn? Any of the other 30 or so women on the list ever pee in a fire? > > I do recall a collecting trip Bill and I went on with another couple. At > the end of the day we finished loading the car just as it got dark, and the > other gal and I went off into the bushes before the long trip back. The > guys made jokes about how the women always have to make pit stops and slow > things down, and they stood around in front of the car finishing off some > beer while they waited for us. We were not far from a stream, so the water > made enough noise that the men didn't hear us coming back to the car, and > apparently they had just decided that they did need to relieve themselves > after all. My friend and I got in the car and I turned on the engine and > the headlights and there were the two men about 15 meters away, one > standing in the beam of each headlight, doing their thing, so to speak. > > Aloha, Kitty > > At 11:02 AM 5/3/2004, you wrote: > > >that will smell even worse than carbide :-( > >did you ever pee into a burning fire when you where young? > >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > > >The frequency of this activity probably increases rather than decreases with > >age. For us aging field collectors we are learning that our bladders, once > >made of the finest steel, now seem to be made of waxed paper. Not only > >that, but we drink beer, lots of it after swinging those hammers all day. > >We have to build BIG fires because we are constantly extinguishing parts of > >them all night long. But with age comes wisdom: now we automatically stand > >upwind without even having to think about it. > > > > Cheers- Earl From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 3 21:44:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon May 3 20:44:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Colorado Appraiser References: <90.45ba0f93.2dc782c9@aol.com> <00e001c4313c$1e730630$2dfccd18@D1J5D241> Message-ID: <4097114B.5E73@Tomaszewski.net> Richard Sittinger wrote: > > Hello All, > > One of Club members has asked me about recommending an appraiser for her > mineral collection. She lives in the Colorado Springs area. Anyone have a > good recommendation I can pass along? Thanks in advance! > > Richard Sittinger > Mineral of the Month Club Richard, Most reputable mineral dealers will give you a fair appraisal for a fee; make sure they understand they will not be the only dealer considered for the sale, if and when it occurs. Try to match the collection quality to what the dealer is selling for best knowledge as there are several 'tiers'. Insurance and Estate evaluations will have (very) different numbers. Expect less if the collection must be sold wholesale instead of retail. Get a second opinion and other usual cautions...and find an expert you can trust. Start local, and expand if that doesn't work out. Been there, done that. I wish you the best of luck. Nothing has value until a buyer and seller agree on a price. Kreigh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 3 21:50:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon May 3 20:50:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] boys will be boys References: <02ec01c4314f$3e3fea10$aa7ba8c0@cm333814lt> <000801c43152$22e5c7a0$c3e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> <6.0.3.0.0.20040503121936.03a310f0@mail.aloha.net> <40970C57.4082@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <409712C0.6AE7@Tomaszewski.net> Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > the otherwise mail crew had used their truck's rear tire for relief -- Arrrgh! Male. Kreigh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 3 23:57:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Mon May 3 22:57:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] boys will be boys In-Reply-To: <40970C57.4082@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: :-) Ok everyone.... these stories are fun, but let's try to get back to the topic of this mailing list... rockhounding, Earth sciences, lapidary, etc. :-) Of course, if you pee'd on rocks that were under the truck's tires and you hit a pocket of smoky quartz crystals.... ;-) I'm here to keep tabs on all of you until Aaron gets back. Don't make me get out the fossil oak branch! ;-) Thanks! Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Kreigh Tomaszewski Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 9:29 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] boys will be boys Kitty, At a recent IMRMC meeting we had a lady geologist tell us about her experiences with the USGS Survey in Alaska's 'outback'. She told us how the otherwise mail crew had used their truck's rear tire for relief -- until she purchased a funnel and joined them, ending a lot of problems. It was a most interesting presentation with some great pictures. I like 'off the wall' questions -- and solutions! (no apology for the pun either) Kreigh P.S., Is Bill presenting when he goes to Denver, or 'just' learning and hobknobbing with his fellow wizards? Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > OK now boys, behave! > > Back in January 2002 Kreigh started a Totally Off The Wall Question in > relation to his observation that about 75% of rockhounds have beards. Now > we're talking about peeing in fires. Come on, Anita? Margaret? > Sherry? Teresa? Georgia? Gloria? Dri-Anna? Liz? Cathy? Jackie? > Dawn? Any of the other 30 or so women on the list ever pee in a fire? > > I do recall a collecting trip Bill and I went on with another couple. At > the end of the day we finished loading the car just as it got dark, and the > other gal and I went off into the bushes before the long trip back. The > guys made jokes about how the women always have to make pit stops and slow > things down, and they stood around in front of the car finishing off some > beer while they waited for us. We were not far from a stream, so the water > made enough noise that the men didn't hear us coming back to the car, and > apparently they had just decided that they did need to relieve themselves > after all. My friend and I got in the car and I turned on the engine and > the headlights and there were the two men about 15 meters away, one > standing in the beam of each headlight, doing their thing, so to speak. > > Aloha, Kitty > > At 11:02 AM 5/3/2004, you wrote: > > >that will smell even worse than carbide :-( > >did you ever pee into a burning fire when you where young? > >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > > >The frequency of this activity probably increases rather than decreases with > >age. For us aging field collectors we are learning that our bladders, once > >made of the finest steel, now seem to be made of waxed paper. Not only > >that, but we drink beer, lots of it after swinging those hammers all day. > >We have to build BIG fires because we are constantly extinguishing parts of > >them all night long. But with age comes wisdom: now we automatically stand > >upwind without even having to think about it. > > > > Cheers- Earl _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 00:33:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon May 3 23:33:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Can you identify this petrified wood round? Message-ID: Dear Mr. Neri, I bought this petrified wood round from a rock shop in Golden, CO. The = shop owner identified it as palm wood from the Denver area, but I am not = sure. Others I've shown it to say sycamore. Do you have any ideas? <>=20 If you don't have the time or can't open the JPEG, no problem. Just = ignore this. Joe Biggs --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 00:33:11 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Matt King) Date: Mon May 3 23:33:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide References: <050320041908.25541.409698B800045DA2000063C52161243646FF96948C9A8D9B909295@att.net> Message-ID: <000801c4313c$23bca1a0$0302a8c0@Gandalf> Hey, why not order from the UK? We have some of the most reliable and cost-effective dealers around? The post to the US also only takes about 5 days. Or don't you think that your green-backs are good enough over here?? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 9:08 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > I used to use carbide for my carbide lamps, for both caving and mineral collecting in mines. I still have several lamps, of course, and I even still have an old can or two of carbide, which still has some undeteriorated & usable carbide in it (on exposure to moisture in the atmosphere, of course, it gradually reacts to form a powder of calcium hydroxide, and ultimately calcium carbonate). (No, I'm not offering to give away or sell the carbide--just sharing reminiscences!) The cans themselves that I have, are kind of becoming collector's items! But I think it's been some years, since I've actually ever used the carbide lamps underground--not all that many years, though (maybe 10, maybe less). > > I would think that suppliers of gear for cavers, might still sell cans of carbide--you might try that on the internet. (I just tried searching thus, on Google--found a place that sells carbide on the first shot. That first company I found happened to have been in the UK so it's probably not where you'd want to order anything, so I won't give the address--I'll let you find something yourself.) (Actually, I looked at that site again--I see they sell carbide lamps & accessories, and container for carrying carbide, but not the actually material itself--but obviously, that must be available elsewhere.) > > There was always something pleasantly old-fashioned and adventuresome about using carbide lamps underground, instead of just batteries! (Even the lamps would periodically clog and stop working--which I guess doesn't happen that often, if you keep them clean.) > > best of luck, > Pete, Denver CO > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 01:03:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Rockhound) Date: Tue May 4 00:03:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] English Boroughs, Counties, London Boroughs, Districts, Cities, Royal Boroughs References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040503221050.00a8dcb8@mail.charter.net> Message-ID: <002a01c431a5$d7dbfd20$02000003@kitchen> The UK has an annoying habit of placing its internal boundries on a voter count system, and therefore I would personally not go beyond County and Town/City. Not every area has a borough per se, indeed, these tend to predominate in larger cities. Outside of that, there are Hundreds, Forsts and Metropolitan Districts. As you will see, it could get very confusing. Usually, a label written as follows will clearly define any location. Mine/Location. eg South Crofty 40Fthm Town/Area eg. Illogan County eg. Cornwall Country eg. England Regards Neil A Subject: [Rockhounds] English Boroughs, Counties, London Boroughs, Districts, Cities, Royal Boroughs > 1 Country > 2 State Province Department or other Large Political Boundary > 3 County, Prefecture, > 4 City > > Is the "County" in UK "first-order administrative divisions" > > Do all boroughs totally reside within one county? > > The beauty of collecting minerals more than any other collectible that I > can think of is that you have to be a bloody expert on geography as well as > geology as well as chemistry as well as geometry as well as aesthetics. > > Obviously over the years names change and I have decided pretty much to > standardize on the current CIA data. And field 2 is to be "first-order > administrative divisions" > > If you were writing a location label for a mineral from Great Britain, how > would you write it? > UK, England , Cornwall, ??borough??, ??district?? (and then Mine of course) > > Is a borough or a district a subunit of a county or an entity to itself. > > Tommy Armstrong > > > --- > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by SurrealNET Online] > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 01:09:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Sherry Pauley) Date: Tue May 4 00:09:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Can you identify this petrified wood round? References: Message-ID: Joe, The list does not allow attachments. If you want to send me the picture I will put it online and post the link. Send to webmaster@sharktoothhill.com Sherry Dear Mr. Neri, I bought this petrified wood round from a rock shop in Golden, CO. The shop owner identified it as palm wood from the Denver area, but I am not sure. Others I've shown it to say sycamore. Do you have any ideas? <> If you don't have the time or can't open the JPEG, no problem. Just ignore this. Joe Biggs From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 04:08:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Nathan C. Martin II) Date: Tue May 4 03:08:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] About a recent calcite crystal acquisition from Logansport, Cass County, Indiana, USA In-Reply-To: References: <20040404020003.4572.14304.Mailman@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20040504055441.01dc7608@po2.bbn.com> Johan, I have that issue of Rocks & Minerals and will be happy to scan it and email it to you later this week when I return from a business trip. According to the article, their are three quarries near Logansport. Two are Engineering Aggregates Corporation Quarries; Plant #1 was/is ~1/2 mile south of town and Plant #2 was/is 1 mile west. Both produce calcite crystals. The third is the France Stone quarry, 3 miles east of Logansport. As of the 1986 publication date of the article in Rocks & Minerals that quarry was flooded. I hope that this helps. Although I grew up nearby in Anderson, IN I totally misspent my youth and did not start collecting minerals until I moved in New England. Every time I see a calcite from the Irving Materials quarry near Anderson I think "I could have collected that one!" I hope you enjoy your Indiana calcite! Best regards, Nate Martin Lexington, MA, USA At 10:01 PM 5/3/2004, you wrote: >I am describing a recent calcite crystal acquisition from Logansport, >Cass County, Indiana, USA I purchased from Joe Kielbaso. > > >Would somebody be able to provide me with a scan of an article that >appeared in Rocks & Min. Number 61 on pages 143 and 144 about An >aggregate quarry in Kenneth Limestone member and underlying Kokomo >Limestone members of the Saline Formation? > >What quarry would the calcite be mined from? > > >Johan Maertens >mineral.maertens @ att.net > >Do you like minerals and other earth treasures? >Visit the Mineral Collectors Page by the Mineral Club of Antwerp at >http://www.minerant.org >Enjoy the beauty of calcite and join the International Calcite >Collectors Association >Visit http://www.minerant.org/clubs/icca.html or >http://www.rockhounds.com/icca/ > >Just bought a quiet new device, a phoneless cord. > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 06:06:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Anita Westlake) Date: Tue May 4 05:06:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] boys will be boys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004101c431d0$0f698a30$d1bd8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> As one of the women on the list, I feel compelled to respond as well. It has never occurred to me to pee in a fire. Even though I am 6 feet tall, I fear straddling a fire would scorch my legs and ego if nothing else! I must lead a sheltered life here in Atlanta, because I didn't even know that it was something manly men had to do. I must be hanging out with the wrong crowd altogether. Where are all these bearded, beer-swilling exhibitionists when you need 'em? Anita -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Docia1154@aol.com Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 8:57 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] boys will be boys In a message dated 5/3/2004 5:59:23 PM Central Daylight Time, kahako@aloha.net writes: OK now boys, behave! Back in January 2002 Kreigh started a Totally Off The Wall Question in relation to his observation that about 75% of rockhounds have beards. Now we're talking about peeing in fires. Come on, Anita? Margaret? Sherry? Teresa? Georgia? Gloria? Dri-Anna? Liz? Cathy? Jackie? Dawn? Any of the other 30 or so women on the list ever pee in a fire? I do recall a collecting trip Bill and I went on with another couple. At the end of the day we finished loading the car just as it got dark, and the other gal and I went off into the bushes before the long trip back. The guys made jokes about how the women always have to make pit stops and slow things down, and they stood around in front of the car finishing off some beer while they waited for us. We were not far from a stream, so the water made enough noise that the men didn't hear us coming back to the car, and apparently they had just decided that they did need to relieve themselves after all. My friend and I got in the car and I turned on the engine and the headlights and there were the two men about 15 meters away, one standing in the beam of each headlight, doing their thing, so to speak. Aloha, Kitty Great story Kitty - I for one (of the gals) have never pee'd in a fire, nor tried to do it the farthest, or write anything either. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 06:40:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Van) Date: Tue May 4 05:40:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dangerous Appraisers References: <050320041913.1133.409699F7000AF3180000046D2161243646FF96948C9A8D9B909295@att.net> <013201c4315d$35ace7a0$2dfccd18@D1J5D241> Message-ID: <005901c431d4$c24cd720$c3ff4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> Just as a FYI. Appraisers should not be permitted to buy objects they appraise and neither should their friends. As a bona fide mineral appraiser, I have had occasion to hear of many instances when free appraisers made more money from the appraisal than if they were paid. If an appraiser wants to buy something from an estate, there is need to have a disinterested appraisal for that (those) item(s). Another thing to remember is that everything has value, even if you personally disdain it. Books, lapidary, fossils, minerals, correspondence, diaries, photos of fieldtrips, homemade recordings of mineral lectures, etc. The kind of donation has also to be kept in mind. If the appraisal is to pay tax on an estate, a widow could end up paying tax on a price that couldn't be obtained. As a surviving spouse could get a wholesale return on a collection, an appraiser might assign a retail price, or a premium above retail, if they don't know what they are doing. We all know of many instances when an appraisal of a specimen was offered, but the price was truly unattainable. These "from the hip" appraisals unreasonably raise expectations and are frequently given by people who have never actually had to sell the kind of thing appraised. Remember, 50% of all professional people, including medical doctors, graduate in the bottom half of their class. Best Regards, Van ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Sittinger" To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 6:23 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Colorado Appraiser > Hi Pete, > > Thanks for getting back. Our Club member definitely has a more modest > collection, and any suggestions you make will be much appreciated. > > Richard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 12:13 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Colorado Appraiser > > > > Dear Richard, > > > > I can recommend some people to you for your customer, who can do > appraisals here in Colorado. I'll probably send you a message later on, > offline from the Rockhounds postings. Who to contact will depend on how > "high end" or not her collection is--some of the people who do this are more > appropriate for appraising collections where all the specimens are in the > 3-to-4-figure value range, others would be more ready to appraise a "more > modest" collection. > > > > Sincerely, Pete Modreski, Denver CO pjmodreski@att.net > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 11:25:41 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Gary Brown) Date: Tue May 4 10:25:41 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] boys will be boys In-Reply-To: <409712C0.6AE7@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000201c431dd$cbdcdfc0$6501a8c0@moose> I remember on a galaxy far-far-away when I was a part-timer working for the Illinois State Geological Survey. The lady geologist on staff remarked once about the time she happened upon one of her male companions relieving himself in the middle of the trail. "How convenient..." she remarked to him, and passed by. GcB From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 11:26:20 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Tue May 4 10:26:20 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] boys will be boys In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.0.20040503121936.03a310f0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <20040504145331.5600DEA8F65@delivery.infowest.com> OK now boys, behave! Back in January 2002 Kreigh started a Totally Off The Wall Question in relation to his observation that about 75% of rockhounds have beards. Now we're talking about peeing in fires. Come on, Anita? Margaret? Sherry? Teresa? Georgia? Gloria? Dri-Anna? Liz? Cathy? Jackie? Dawn? Any of the other 30 or so women on the list ever pee in a fire? Aloha, Kitty Not I! ;>}}} Margaret From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 11:26:40 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (herwig pelckmans) Date: Tue May 4 10:26:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide References: <050320041908.25541.409698B800045DA2000063C52161243646FF96948C9A8D9B909295@att.net> <02b801c43144$3046cce0$aa7ba8c0@cm333814lt> Message-ID: <011001c431e7$cdf4dec0$22d876d5@pandora.be> Frank, next time, try putting the carbide in an (old) sock, and then whack that sock against the walls of the cave. The carbide pieces will stay in the sock ... no more need for 2 hammers etc etc... Cheers, Herwig Herwig Pelckmans Worldwide Mineral Collector Cardijnstraat 12 B-3530 Helchteren Belgium Europe http://www.xlizd.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank de Wit" To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 9:24 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Carbide > underground they hate me for my smell > but they love to have me around for the best light there is > carbide lights out large rooms underground, where electric light only gives > you tunnel-vision > (yep, I have a carbide fetisch, and use it almost every weekend underground) > [i love the after smell also driving back in the car; the lamp still fuming > a little ;-) > > i just buy my carbide in the nearby rockclimbing shop, but also bought it > earlier at a speleo shop > if you buy carbide, make sure you buy the stuff that is already in small > pieces > last weekend I was underground somewhere and had to refresh my carbide > shit, only large chunks in my plastic can; so I had to hammer it into small > pieces > but the floor was muddy, no hard rock to put the carbide on, and carbide is > almost the hardest stuff you can hammer on... > the only solution then is to put the carbide on one hammer, and hammer on it > with the other hammer (do you carry 2 hammers?) > keep one hand in front of your eyes, you don't want carbide-chips in your > eye... and hammer with the other one > and then find the smaller pieces everywhere around you in the mud (in the > almost dark with a little electric light of the others ;-) > the others had a lot of fun waiting for me ;-) > > someone also said: 'wait until he runs our of water'.... :-) > does carbide also run on coca cola ? > > hojje! frank > www.strahlen.org > > ps: as you can read... electric light is boring... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 9:08 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > > I used to use carbide for my carbide lamps, for both caving and mineral > collecting in mines. I still have several lamps, of course, and I even > still have an old can or two of carbide, which still has some undeteriorated > & usable carbide in it (on exposure to moisture in the atmosphere, of > course, it gradually reacts to form a powder of calcium hydroxide, and > ultimately calcium carbonate). (No, I'm not offering to give away or sell > the carbide--just sharing reminiscences!) The cans themselves that I have, > are kind of becoming collector's items! But I think it's been some years, > since I've actually ever used the carbide lamps underground--not all that > many years, though (maybe 10, maybe less). > > > > I would think that suppliers of gear for cavers, might still sell cans of > carbide--you might try that on the internet. (I just tried searching thus, > on Google--found a place that sells carbide on the first shot. That first > company I found happened to have been in the UK so it's probably not where > you'd want to order anything, so I won't give the address--I'll let you find > something yourself.) (Actually, I looked at that site again--I see they > sell carbide lamps & accessories, and container for carrying carbide, but > not the actually material itself--but obviously, that must be available > elsewhere.) > > > > There was always something pleasantly old-fashioned and adventuresome > about using carbide lamps underground, instead of just batteries! (Even the > lamps would periodically clog and stop working--which I guess doesn't happen > that often, if you keep them clean.) > > > > best of luck, > > Pete, Denver CO > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 11:27:23 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue May 4 10:27:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] boys will be boys References: <004101c431d0$0f698a30$d1bd8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> Message-ID: <011601c431eb$a71a49d0$6402a8c0@axel> Hi Anita >It has never occurred to me to pee in a fire. If God wanted women to pee in a fire He would have given them the right equipment. So He did... In fact: The Creation according to a double bladed cow-wielding person who chooses to remain anonymous at this time, teaches us that women were created first! Not man. About half of the freshly created women found it very exhilarating to pee in fires. As a result, half the bikini-lines in Paradise were an unsightly mess. So God decided to equip those poor women with a small fire hose to spare their blistered behinds. After a while an unfontunate side-effect became painfully apparent: the women began to speak in low voices, grow hair in unlikely places and developed a lust for beer. So ladies, we can't help it... it's a girl thing... >Where are all these bearded, beer-swilling >exhibitionists when you need 'em? HERE, HERE.... WE 'RE HERE .... YOOHOO.... PSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHCHeers Axel -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Docia1154@aol.com Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 8:57 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] boys will be boys In a message dated 5/3/2004 5:59:23 PM Central Daylight Time, kahako@aloha.net writes: OK now boys, behave! Back in January 2002 Kreigh started a Totally Off The Wall Question in relation to his observation that about 75% of rockhounds have beards. Now we're talking about peeing in fires. Come on, Anita? Margaret? Sherry? Teresa? Georgia? Gloria? Dri-Anna? Liz? Cathy? Jackie? Dawn? Any of the other 30 or so women on the list ever pee in a fire? I do recall a collecting trip Bill and I went on with another couple. At the end of the day we finished loading the car just as it got dark, and the other gal and I went off into the bushes before the long trip back. The guys made jokes about how the women always have to make pit stops and slow things down, and they stood around in front of the car finishing off some beer while they waited for us. We were not far from a stream, so the water made enough noise that the men didn't hear us coming back to the car, and apparently they had just decided that they did need to relieve themselves after all. My friend and I got in the car and I turned on the engine and the headlights and there were the two men about 15 meters away, one standing in the beam of each headlight, doing their thing, so to speak. Aloha, Kitty Great story Kitty - I for one (of the gals) have never pee'd in a fire, nor tried to do it the farthest, or write anything either. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 11:28:24 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue May 4 10:28:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] boys will be boys References: <02ec01c4314f$3e3fea10$aa7ba8c0@cm333814lt><000801c43152$22e5c7a0$c3e4a5ce@D3JM7W21><6.0.3.0.0.20040503121936.03a310f0@mail.aloha.net><004201c43164$737b7d60$7c01a8c0@useree0kkeoj3m> <6.0.3.0.0.20040503134236.039ca730@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <013601c431f1$5f36e910$6402a8c0@axel> Hmmm , I see.... Well Kitty, peeing on kids anywhere in Belgium would cost you anything from a black eye on the beach to a couple of days in prison if you did it downtown. Men can pee on kids from behind a corner or bush, as long as the kid is downwind. Our getaway chances or much bigger then those of women for obvious reasons. Elderly men with prostate problems should be aware of the term "collateral damage" and use souped-up wheelchairs for the getaway. Also: IMPORTANT MESSAGE TO ALL MEN ON THE LIST If you're on a barbeque and the weather is a little chilly, people often pull out those electric heaters (we call 'm "salamanders" over here) to radiate some directed heat towards the guests. These devices glow red but they ARE NOT FIRE. So DO NOT PEE INTO THEM. Peeing on such device may result in your genital area looking like the pubic version of Don King. Shocking experience... Cheers Axel PS: this should keep the doctor away for a day or two ;-))) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 1:54 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] boys will be boys > Here in Hawaii there's another heroic possibility for males: Urine is an > effective treatment to relieve the sting of jellyfish, and it's not at all > uncommon when a kid runs screaming out of the ocean having obviously had an > encounter with a box jellyfish, for a man or some boys to come sauntering > over with the attitude of "Well, somebody's got to do da kine for the > keiki." ("da kine' is pidgin for "something" or "that sort of thing" and > "keiki" is Hawaiian for "child"). > > (Most mothers bring a jar of meat tenderizer along as a more sanitary sting > antidote!) > > Aloha, Kitty > > > At 01:14 PM 5/3/2004, you wrote: > >Dear Kitty; > > > >Some may disagree, but you should know that, for males, the sole purpose of > >any bonfire is to be peed upon. It may happen sooner, it may happen later, > >but it's gonna happen. Dogs have fire hydrants, guys have bonfires; it's a > >fact of life celebrated in every lowbrow cartoon comedy. It's even mentioned > >in Gulliver's Travels; remember the Lilliputian town heroically saved from > >fire - the secret fantasy of every male, large or small. > > > >Cheers, > > > >Tim > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" > >To: > >Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 7:23 PM > >Subject: [Rockhounds] boys will be boys > > > > > > > OK now boys, behave! > > > > > > Back in January 2002 Kreigh started a Totally Off The Wall Question in > > > relation to his observation that about 75% of rockhounds have beards. Now > > > we're talking about peeing in fires. Come on, Anita? Margaret? > > > Sherry? Teresa? Georgia? Gloria? Dri-Anna? Liz? Cathy? Jackie? > > > Dawn? Any of the other 30 or so women on the list ever pee in a fire? > >miscellaneous naughtiness snipped > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 11:29:10 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Tue May 4 10:29:10 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sodalite Crystals Message-ID: I came across a picture of a sodalite crystal at: http://www.saint-hilaire.ca/en/sodalit.htm Does anyone know how large sodalite crystals can get or where I could inquire about purchasing one? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 11:29:40 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Italian Minerals) Date: Tue May 4 10:29:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD - update on ItalianMinerals.com Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20040504182002.01b04ed8@popmail.libero.it> Hi there collectors ! few lines to inform you that a lot of new specimens have just been added on our web site. This update include several nicely crystallized erythrite from Marocco, gold from Italy, pyromorphite from Spain, ettringite from South Africa, acanthite from Mexico, calcite from Sweetwater, USA, vanadinite from Mibladen, MArocco, fluorescent hexagonal aragonite from Sicily, Italy. In the next days there will be an addition of spessartine from China ! visit us at: www.italianminerals.com or goto: http://www.italianminerals.com/whatsnew.html In case you want to be added to out mailing list just let us know offlist. Thanks for your visit if you will, Alessandro (ItalianMinerals.com) ============================= Italian Minerals http://www.italianminerals.com quality minerals from Italy and worldwide ============================= From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 11:29:59 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue May 4 10:29:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hawaii lava Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20040504072357.02eed390@mail.aloha.net> Heads up for those of you who don't regularly check out the USGS site for Hawaii lava activity: lava is flowing over the pali (cliff) that is closest to the end of the road. This means it may possibly reach the ocean within a few days or weeks...or it may peter out and stop; can't tell at this point. But there are some good pictures on the site below. Aloha, Kitty http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/main.html From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 11:41:21 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue May 4 10:41:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] boys will be boys References: <20040504145331.5600DEA8F65@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: <01ee01c431fd$edbfe680$6402a8c0@axel> > Come on, Anita? Margaret? > Sherry? Teresa? Georgia? Gloria? Dri-Anna? Liz? Cathy? Jackie? > Dawn? Any of the other 30 or so women on the list ever pee in a fire? or have beards? Cow-wielder From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 11:41:37 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Keith Q Hayes) Date: Tue May 4 10:41:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sodalite Crystals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have a few smaller specimens of sodalite for sale. Contact me off-line if you wish to discuss. Thanks, Best Regards, Keith Hayes www.kqminerals.com kqhayes@chartermi.net 3705 Fuller Drive Midland, MI 48642 -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Hammerron@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 12:22 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Sodalite Crystals I came across a picture of a sodalite crystal at: http://www.saint-hilaire.ca/en/sodalit.htm Does anyone know how large sodalite crystals can get or where I could inquire about purchasing one? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 11:53:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (John Teague) Date: Tue May 4 10:53:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] boys will be boys Message-ID: <1522915.1083693142433.JavaMail.root@wamui05.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Is this the same list that goes totally nuts when someone post something for sale? Interesting, to say the least. Guess it depends on whose ox is being "gored"! -----Original Message----- From: Axel Emmermann Sent: May 4, 2004 1:33 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] boys will be boys > Come on, Anita? Margaret? > Sherry? Teresa? Georgia? Gloria? Dri-Anna? Liz? Cathy? Jackie? > Dawn? Any of the other 30 or so women on the list ever pee in a fire? or have beards? Cow-wielder _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 11:56:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Frank de Wit) Date: Tue May 4 10:56:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide References: <050320041908.25541.409698B800045DA2000063C52161243646FF96948C9A8D9B909295@att.net> <02b801c43144$3046cce0$aa7ba8c0@cm333814lt> <011001c431e7$cdf4dec0$22d876d5@pandora.be> Message-ID: <00ed01c43201$0c10a4f0$aa7ba8c0@cm333814lt> good tip, tnx must be a good sock though, carbide is tough ... ;-) some also put the carbide in a sock inside the lamp; that distributes the water better and keeps the lamp cleaner inside hojje! frank ----- Original Message ----- From: "herwig pelckmans" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:55 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Carbide > Frank, > > next time, try putting the carbide in an (old) sock, and then whack that > sock against the walls of the cave. The carbide pieces will stay in the sock > ... no more need for 2 hammers etc etc... > > Cheers, Herwig > > Herwig Pelckmans > Worldwide Mineral Collector > Cardijnstraat 12 > B-3530 Helchteren > Belgium Europe > http://www.xlizd.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frank de Wit" > To: > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 9:24 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > > underground they hate me for my smell > > but they love to have me around for the best light there is > > carbide lights out large rooms underground, where electric light only > gives > > you tunnel-vision > > (yep, I have a carbide fetisch, and use it almost every weekend > underground) > > [i love the after smell also driving back in the car; the lamp still > fuming > > a little ;-) > > > > i just buy my carbide in the nearby rockclimbing shop, but also bought it > > earlier at a speleo shop > > if you buy carbide, make sure you buy the stuff that is already in small > > pieces > > last weekend I was underground somewhere and had to refresh my carbide > > shit, only large chunks in my plastic can; so I had to hammer it into > small > > pieces > > but the floor was muddy, no hard rock to put the carbide on, and carbide > is > > almost the hardest stuff you can hammer on... > > the only solution then is to put the carbide on one hammer, and hammer on > it > > with the other hammer (do you carry 2 hammers?) > > keep one hand in front of your eyes, you don't want carbide-chips in your > > eye... and hammer with the other one > > and then find the smaller pieces everywhere around you in the mud (in the > > almost dark with a little electric light of the others ;-) > > the others had a lot of fun waiting for me ;-) > > > > someone also said: 'wait until he runs our of water'.... :-) > > does carbide also run on coca cola ? > > > > hojje! frank > > www.strahlen.org > > > > ps: as you can read... electric light is boring... > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 9:08 PM > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > > > > > I used to use carbide for my carbide lamps, for both caving and mineral > > collecting in mines. I still have several lamps, of course, and I even > > still have an old can or two of carbide, which still has some > undeteriorated > > & usable carbide in it (on exposure to moisture in the atmosphere, of > > course, it gradually reacts to form a powder of calcium hydroxide, and > > ultimately calcium carbonate). (No, I'm not offering to give away or sell > > the carbide--just sharing reminiscences!) The cans themselves that I > have, > > are kind of becoming collector's items! But I think it's been some years, > > since I've actually ever used the carbide lamps underground--not all that > > many years, though (maybe 10, maybe less). > > > > > > I would think that suppliers of gear for cavers, might still sell cans > of > > carbide--you might try that on the internet. (I just tried searching > thus, > > on Google--found a place that sells carbide on the first shot. That first > > company I found happened to have been in the UK so it's probably not where > > you'd want to order anything, so I won't give the address--I'll let you > find > > something yourself.) (Actually, I looked at that site again--I see they > > sell carbide lamps & accessories, and container for carrying carbide, but > > not the actually material itself--but obviously, that must be available > > elsewhere.) > > > > > > There was always something pleasantly old-fashioned and adventuresome > > about using carbide lamps underground, instead of just batteries! (Even > the > > lamps would periodically clog and stop working--which I guess doesn't > happen > > that often, if you keep them clean.) > > > > > > best of luck, > > > Pete, Denver CO > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 12:06:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Tue May 4 11:06:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: [Rockhounds][ADMIN] boys will be boys... is no more In-Reply-To: <1522915.1083693142433.JavaMail.root@wamui05.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Hi list, Let's all please refrain from topics such as this and start talking about rocks again. Thanks, Bob Loeffler Interim list admin -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of John Teague Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 11:52 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] boys will be boys Is this the same list that goes totally nuts when someone post something for sale? Interesting, to say the least. Guess it depends on whose ox is being "gored"! -----Original Message----- From: Axel Emmermann Sent: May 4, 2004 1:33 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] boys will be boys > Come on, Anita? Margaret? > Sherry? Teresa? Georgia? Gloria? Dri-Anna? Liz? Cathy? Jackie? > Dawn? Any of the other 30 or so women on the list ever pee in a fire? or have beards? Cow-wielder _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 12:14:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (michael) Date: Tue May 4 11:14:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] boys will be boys References: <1522915.1083693142433.JavaMail.root@wamui05.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <028a01c43201$a4de88a0$36259444@heathercomp> interesting, isn't it? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Teague" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] boys will be boys > Is this the same list that goes totally nuts when someone post > something for sale? Interesting, to say the least. Guess it > depends on whose ox is being "gored"! > > -----Original Message----- > From: Axel Emmermann > Sent: May 4, 2004 1:33 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] boys will be boys > > > Come on, Anita? Margaret? > > Sherry? Teresa? Georgia? Gloria? Dri-Anna? Liz? Cathy? Jackie? > > Dawn? Any of the other 30 or so women on the list ever pee in a fire? > > or have beards? > > Cow-wielder > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 13:11:03 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Italian Minerals) Date: Tue May 4 12:11:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD - update on ItalianMinerals.com Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20040504211010.01b6f220@popmail.libero.it> Hi there collectors ! few lines to inform you that a lot of new specimens have just been added on our web site. This update include several nicely crystallized erythrite from Marocco, gold from Italy, pyromorphite from Spain, ettringite from South Africa, acanthite from Mexico, calcite from Sweetwater, USA, vanadinite from Mibladen, MArocco, fluorescent hexagonal aragonite from Sicily, Italy. In the next days there will be an addition of spessartine from China ! visit us at: www.italianminerals.com or goto: http://www.italianminerals.com/whatsnew.html In case you want to be added to out mailing list just let us know offlist. Thanks for your visit if you will, Alessandro (ItalianMinerals.com) ============================= Italian Minerals http://www.italianminerals.com quality minerals from Italy and worldwide ============================= From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 16:52:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Tue May 4 15:52:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bruno Jasper Message-ID: <1e8.1f83ee2f.2dc97855@aol.com> Can you still dig for Bruno jasper? If so, where is the location? Thank you T. McGinnis --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 17:13:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue May 4 16:13:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sodalite Crystals References: Message-ID: <40982365.1959@Tomaszewski.net> Hammerron@aol.com wrote: > > I came across a picture of a sodalite crystal at: > http://www.saint-hilaire.ca/en/sodalit.htm Does anyone know how large sodalite crystals can get or where > I could inquire about purchasing one? > You could inquire just about anywhere. But if you want a positive response I would suggest a micromount dealer, or a high end dealer, as sodalite crystals are somewhat uncommon. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 17:30:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Frederick Olmstead) Date: Tue May 4 16:30:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds] boys will be boys References: <20040504145331.5600DEA8F65@delivery.infowest.com> <01ee01c431fd$edbfe680$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: <40982A84.200F@rcn.com> GOOD GRIEF!! CHARLIE BROWN __..--..__..--..__..--..__ Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > Come on, Anita? Margaret? > > Sherry? Teresa? Georgia? Gloria? Dri-Anna? Liz? Cathy? Jackie? > > Dawn? Any of the other 30 or so women on the list ever pee in a fire? > > or have beards? > > Cow-wielder > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 17:45:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Tue May 4 16:45:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] boys will be boys Message-ID: <20.28924a11.2dc984c8@aol.com> LOL..I'm crazy but not THAT crazy!!! I've neither peed in a fire, on a fire or near a fire! You need a hose adapter to do that..something I don't have! LOL Jackie :) In a message dated 5/3/04 6:59:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kahako@aloha.net writes: OK now boys, behave! Back in January 2002 Kreigh started a Totally Off The Wall Question in relation to his observation that about 75% of rockhounds have beards. Now we're talking about peeing in fires. Come on, Anita? Margaret? Sherry? Teresa? Georgia? Gloria? Dri-Anna? Liz? Cathy? Jackie? Dawn? Any of the other 30 or so women on the list ever pee in a fire? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 17:50:03 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Tue May 4 16:50:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] My apologies..(was boys will be boys) Message-ID: <12d.402abaaa.2dc98618@aol.com> I read from the start of the thread..and jumped in before I read..the cease and desist order! Mea culpa!! Jackie <000801c4313c$23bca1a0$0302a8c0@Gandalf> Message-ID: <000e01c43243$58661820$56a4490c@pete> Now Matt, you KNOW I didn't mean to disparage the UK! I'm sure the dealers are very good and reliable. And as I added in my message, when I re-read their website carefully, I realized they were selling all these lamps & stuff, but not actually the carbide. In fact, out of all the responses I've seen here about carbide, I think I've seen things about a number of places that were selling carbide LAMPS, but I don't think a single one yet, that has actually been offered a source of carbide! (One reason may be, the stuff is probably not mailable--probably can only be shipped by freight, as a hazardous item. One probably has to buy it from a local source... whoever/whatever that may be!) Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt King" To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 12:26 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Carbide > Hey, why not order from the UK? We have some of the most reliable and > cost-effective dealers around? The post to the US also only takes about 5 > days. Or don't you think that your green-backs are good enough over here?? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 9:08 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > > I used to use carbide for my carbide lamps, for both caving and mineral > collecting in mines. I still have several lamps, of course, and I even > still have an old can or two of carbide, which still has some undeteriorated > & usable carbide in it (on exposure to moisture in the atmosphere, of > course, it gradually reacts to form a powder of calcium hydroxide, and > ultimately calcium carbonate). (No, I'm not offering to give away or sell > the carbide--just sharing reminiscences!) The cans themselves that I have, > are kind of becoming collector's items! But I think it's been some years, > since I've actually ever used the carbide lamps underground--not all that > many years, though (maybe 10, maybe less). > > > > I would think that suppliers of gear for cavers, might still sell cans of > carbide--you might try that on the internet. (I just tried searching thus, > on Google--found a place that sells carbide on the first shot. That first > company I found happened to have been in the UK so it's probably not where > you'd want to order anything, so I won't give the address--I'll let you find > something yourself.) (Actually, I looked at that site again--I see they > sell carbide lamps & accessories, and container for carrying carbide, but > not the actually material itself--but obviously, that must be available > elsewhere.) > > > > There was always something pleasantly old-fashioned and adventuresome > about using carbide lamps underground, instead of just batteries! (Even the > lamps would periodically clog and stop working--which I guess doesn't happen > that often, if you keep them clean.) > > > > best of luck, > > Pete, Denver CO > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 20:23:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Don H) Date: Tue May 4 19:23:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide References: <050320041908.25541.409698B800045DA2000063C52161243646FF96948C9A8D9B909295@att.net> <000801c4313c$23bca1a0$0302a8c0@Gandalf> <000e01c43243$58661820$56a4490c@pete> Message-ID: <40985065.BBA85AC@att.net> "Peter J. Modreski" wrote: > > In fact, out of all the responses I've seen here about carbide, I think I've > seen things about a number of places that were selling carbide LAMPS, but I > don't think a single one yet, that has actually been offered a source of > carbide! Hi, You might try http://www.minerox.com , and send them an e-mail asking if they know where to get the fuel. They are nice folks and I think they would try to be helpful. Good luck, Don From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 20:32:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Don H) Date: Tue May 4 19:32:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] what are First Principles and how do they relate to earth science? Message-ID: <409852B4.C449A6CE@att.net> Hi, The latest in an occasional series of bizarre questions: in chemistry class, and in some readings on chemistry and earth sciences, I sometimes encounter the term "First Principles." When the chemistry professor used the term, I asked what it meant, and he said something about learning it in physics: so much for getting my tuition's worth. In any case, a web search reveals a staggering array of subjects, from Greek philosophy (which may be the relevant entry) to weird ethical and religious diatribes and everything in between. In any event, there are occasional references to some work being done "based on First Principles," so I imagine it would help if I know what they are. Best regards, Don From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 20:38:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (H.Durstling) Date: Tue May 4 19:38:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Maps - Shameless Commerce Message-ID: Hi everyone, Let me take advantage of the recent MAPS thread to offer for sale 72 USGS maps I acquired some years ago when the geology department at a nearby university was closed down. The maps cover a whole mixed bag of topics. From "Maps Showing the Growth of the Lava Dome at Mount Saint Helens Washington" to "Geologic Map of the Hathor Region (Jg-15) of Ganymede" to "World Map of Volcanoes and Principal Aeronautical Features" to "Aerial Gamma Ray Maps of Regional Surface Concentrations of Potassium, Uranium, and Thorium in West Virginia" to "Historic Trail Map of the Lamar 1 x 2 degree Quadrangle, Colorado and Kansas," to "Geological Map of the Crater Section of Haleakala National Park, Maui, Hawaii." All 72 are in the original protective manila envelopes. I'm asking $100 + shipping. First email in my in-box to offer that gets them all. Cheers, Hans Durstling Moncton Canada - where it is spring & the snow is gone gone gone. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 20:47:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Tue May 4 19:47:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide In-Reply-To: <40985065.BBA85AC@att.net> Message-ID: <200405050245.i452ja4W014231@mxsf24.cluster1.charter.net> Quick Google on calcium carbide yielded quite few, but http://store.karstsports.com/mingradcalca.html seemed least expensive. $70 for 12 lb including hazmat shipping. > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Don H > Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:25 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > "Peter J. Modreski" wrote: > > > > > In fact, out of all the responses I've seen here about carbide, I > > think I've seen things about a number of places that were selling > > carbide LAMPS, but I don't think a single one yet, that has > actually > > been offered a source of carbide! > > Hi, > > You might try http://www.minerox.com , and send them an > e-mail asking if they know where to get the fuel. They are > nice folks and I think they would try to be helpful. > > Good luck, > > Don > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 20:53:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue May 4 19:53:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide References: <050320041908.25541.409698B800045DA2000063C52161243646FF96948C9A8D9B909295@att.net> <000801c4313c$23bca1a0$0302a8c0@Gandalf> <000e01c43243$58661820$56a4490c@pete> Message-ID: <409856E6.5C99@Tomaszewski.net> You can buy carbide online in small cans to 100 lb drums from Inner Mountian Outfitters (www.caves.org/ima/lamps.htm) but it can only be shipped by truck (min. $60 freight) as a dangerous chemical. I found it with a quick google search (it was #1 of 3,670 hits) and I presume there are other suppliers available (if you search by chemical name). Kreigh Peter J. Modreski wrote: > > Now Matt, you KNOW I didn't mean to disparage the UK! I'm sure the dealers > are very good and reliable. And as I added in my message, when I re-read > their website carefully, I realized they were selling all these lamps & > stuff, but not actually the carbide. > > In fact, out of all the responses I've seen here about carbide, I think I've > seen things about a number of places that were selling carbide LAMPS, but I > don't think a single one yet, that has actually been offered a source of > carbide! (One reason may be, the stuff is probably not mailable--probably > can only be shipped by freight, as a hazardous item. One probably has to > buy it from a local source... whoever/whatever that may be!) > > Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Matt King" > To: > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 12:26 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > Hey, why not order from the UK? We have some of the most reliable and > > cost-effective dealers around? The post to the US also only takes about 5 > > days. Or don't you think that your green-backs are good enough over here?? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 9:08 PM > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > > > > > I used to use carbide for my carbide lamps, for both caving and mineral > > collecting in mines. I still have several lamps, of course, and I even > > still have an old can or two of carbide, which still has some > undeteriorated > > & usable carbide in it (on exposure to moisture in the atmosphere, of > > course, it gradually reacts to form a powder of calcium hydroxide, and > > ultimately calcium carbonate). (No, I'm not offering to give away or sell > > the carbide--just sharing reminiscences!) The cans themselves that I > have, > > are kind of becoming collector's items! But I think it's been some years, > > since I've actually ever used the carbide lamps underground--not all that > > many years, though (maybe 10, maybe less). > > > > > > I would think that suppliers of gear for cavers, might still sell cans > of > > carbide--you might try that on the internet. (I just tried searching > thus, > > on Google--found a place that sells carbide on the first shot. That first > > company I found happened to have been in the UK so it's probably not where > > you'd want to order anything, so I won't give the address--I'll let you > find > > something yourself.) (Actually, I looked at that site again--I see they > > sell carbide lamps & accessories, and container for carrying carbide, but > > not the actually material itself--but obviously, that must be available > > elsewhere.) > > > > > > There was always something pleasantly old-fashioned and adventuresome > > about using carbide lamps underground, instead of just batteries! (Even > the > > lamps would periodically clog and stop working--which I guess doesn't > happen > > that often, if you keep them clean.) > > > > > > best of luck, > > > Pete, Denver CO From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 22:32:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Tue May 4 21:32:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] what are First Principles and how do they relate to earth science? In-Reply-To: <409852B4.C449A6CE@att.net> Message-ID: <200405050427.i454RNg8012415@mxsf13.cluster1.charter.net> Don, The way I remember "First Principles" are that they are principles that are self-evident as being true and as such do not need to be "proven". And if I remember my college philosophy courses correctly (which is a bit of a stretch), I think that the concept comes from Aristotle. If there are no "First Priciples" then all logical arguments are doomed to fail because you end up with an infinite spiral of propositions or reasons that would never end. In geometry, at least the Euclidinan geometry that I studied in high school, you started out learning the "Axioms"--you never had to prove an axiom but you used them to deduce ,what were they called, theorems. Remember writing those proofs and you would always start off with an axiom. An axiom is a "First Principle". Now later on other philosphers, I think Kant was the biggie, showed that those First Principles were not really provable and were not really self-evident. In physics for a long time Newton's laws became "First Principles". They worked just fine for a couple of hundred years. But then Albert (and Heisenberg) came along and kind of changed that. Now I have no problem with First Principles. Among my First Priciples are: "food is good", "drink is good", and "minerals are interesting", and "bluegrass and jazz are great". But the problem arises that others might not see these "First Principles" as "First Principles". And then the spiral begins. Tommy Armstrong "Creativity is the marvelous capacity to grasp distinct realities and draw a spark from their juxtaposition." Max Ernst > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Don H > Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34 PM > To: R&F; rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] what are First Principles and how do > they relate to earth science? > > > Hi, > > The latest in an occasional series of bizarre questions: in > chemistry class, and in some readings on chemistry and earth > sciences, I sometimes encounter the term "First Principles." > When the chemistry professor used the term, I asked what it > meant, and he said something about learning it in physics: so > much for getting my tuition's worth. In any case, a web > search reveals a staggering array of subjects, from Greek > philosophy (which may be the relevant entry) to weird ethical > and religious diatribes and everything in between. > > In any event, there are occasional references to some work > being done "based on First Principles," so I imagine it would > help if I know what they are. > > Best regards, > > Don > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 4 22:46:59 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Tue May 4 21:46:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sodalite Crystals References: Message-ID: <002c01c4325b$de8c0eb0$7c01a8c0@useree0kkeoj3m> Well, the best sodalite crystals are probably still from Mont Saint-Hilaire, Quebec; a pink 4cm group and a 1cm blue dodec are pictured in the MSH issue of Min Rec. Afghanistan began producing amazing sodalites, afghanites, etc. in the last few years; I suspect that they might have come a bit larger but I don't think they're as aesthetic, they look pretty much like lazurite xls. Perhaps all the thousand pound bombs dropped hither and thither have revealed something new. Micro xls from Saint-Hilaire are gorgeous, relatively inexpensive, and not hard to find, contact any micromount dealer. Expect to pay perhaps $500 plus for anything larger though, especially anything halfway aesthetic; search google or talk to high end dealers at shows. Often if you tell a dealer you're looking for something, and are truly willing to pay for it, he'll go to the ends of the earth to find it for you. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr tjokela@execulink.com http://www.element51.com http://www.ontariominerals.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 12:22 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Sodalite Crystals > I came across a picture of a sodalite crystal at: > http://www.saint-hilaire.ca/en/sodalit.htm Does anyone know how large sodalite crystals can get or where > I could inquire about purchasing one? > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 5 00:58:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Tue May 4 23:58:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] My apologies..(was boys will be boys) In-Reply-To: <12d.402abaaa.2dc98618@aol.com> Message-ID: :-) No problem, Jackie. It's difficult to get these e-mail threads to stop because: (1) the mailing list is global, and (2) most people read from the beginning and respond before seeing the last e-mail in the thread. Regards, Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of CRAZYDOVE@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 5:50 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] My apologies..(was boys will be boys) I read from the start of the thread..and jumped in before I read..the cease and desist order! Mea culpa!! Jackie <002c01c4325b$de8c0eb0$7c01a8c0@useree0kkeoj3m> Message-ID: <000f01c4327c$31a44840$97e1fea9@ArmandoAfonso> now I understand the purpose of bombing the entire world: is not only to save it, the idea is to expose the treasures that the ignorant locals are not able to appreciate. Armando Afonso- Portugal ps: WE have no oil, no need of bombing and salvation, thank you. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Jokela Jr." To: Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 5:46 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Sodalite Crystals > Well, the best sodalite crystals are probably still from Mont Saint-Hilaire, > Quebec; a pink 4cm group and a 1cm blue dodec are pictured in the MSH issue > of Min Rec. Afghanistan began producing amazing sodalites, afghanites, etc. > in the last few years; I suspect that they might have come a bit larger but > I don't think they're as aesthetic, they look pretty much like lazurite xls. > Perhaps all the thousand pound bombs dropped hither and thither have > revealed something new. > > Micro xls from Saint-Hilaire are gorgeous, relatively inexpensive, and not > hard to find, contact any micromount dealer. Expect to pay perhaps $500 plus > for anything larger though, especially anything halfway aesthetic; search > google or talk to high end dealers at shows. Often if you tell a dealer > you're looking for something, and are truly willing to pay for it, he'll go > to the ends of the earth to find it for you. > > Cheers, > > Tim Jokela Jr > tjokela@execulink.com > http://www.element51.com > http://www.ontariominerals.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 12:22 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Sodalite Crystals > > > > I came across a picture of a sodalite crystal at: > > http://www.saint-hilaire.ca/en/sodalit.htm Does anyone know how large > sodalite crystals can get or where > > I could inquire about purchasing one? > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 5 05:10:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (armando afonso) Date: Wed May 5 04:10:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] test References: Message-ID: <000b01c4328e$84224600$97e1fea9@ArmandoAfonso> From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 5 07:14:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Henry Barwood) Date: Wed May 5 06:14:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineralcollecting.org field trip report Message-ID: My son, Adam Barwood, has posted a report on his recent collecting at a construction site near the town of Alabaster, Alabama. Although collecting is difficult, and requires lots of sledgehammer work, excellent specimens of rockbridgeite, beraunite, cacoxenite and strengite have been found. The link below will take you to it: http://www.mineralcollecting.org/forum/master.cgi?action=ViewPost&post=186&l ocation=&collapse=&user= Henry Barwood Associate Professor of Science, Earth Science Department of Math and Physics MSCX 312G Troy State University Troy, Alabama 36082 hbarwood@troyst.edu From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 5 08:08:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Ted) Date: Wed May 5 07:08:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide In-Reply-To: <000e01c43243$58661820$56a4490c@pete> Message-ID: <003501c432aa$4583c830$0200a8c0@gametime> Hmmmm... I could have sworn that I included this link when I responded earlier. http://www.calcium-carbide.com/ $13.80 a pound is much better to my ears than $70. Again, I have not ordered any from them, but the carbide price is more to my liking. Still, I suggest checking your local acetylene suppliers first. Both UPS and USPS ground transport can handle properly prepared and labeled hazardous materials, so the shipping price should not be exorbitant. I am rather glad for this thread. It has been some time since I used carbide lamps; even then the lamps we used were old. I had just assumed that newer lamps would be self cleaning... I understand they have ceramic tips now. Back then we had to worry about what was used for cleaning the brass tips (enlarging the hole was not a good thing). With a ceramic tip almost any wire can be used that is small enough. I fully agree with Pete with the fact that the light from a carbide lamp is much better than a flashlight. Three people with flashlights in a mine light up small sections of the mine. Three people with carbide lamps light the whole passage. Also carbide lamps are easily positioned so that you can see what you're working on; flashlights have been less cooperative in my experience. And yes, I have one of those headlamps. Just when you're getting sweaty and have your hands around something in a hole they seem to aim just above or below where you need them. As I remember it, a primary advantage of the carbide lamp is also safety. When the carbide flame starts flickering, it is time to head back to clear air. An obviously working carbide lamp that refuses to light is a real warning that the air is unsafe. Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA Ted@Crystalgems.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Peter J. Modreski Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 9:50 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Carbide Now Matt, you KNOW I didn't mean to disparage the UK! I'm sure the dealers are very good and reliable. And as I added in my message, when I re-read their website carefully, I realized they were selling all these lamps & stuff, but not actually the carbide. In fact, out of all the responses I've seen here about carbide, I think I've seen things about a number of places that were selling carbide LAMPS, but I don't think a single one yet, that has actually been offered a source of carbide! (One reason may be, the stuff is probably not mailable--probably can only be shipped by freight, as a hazardous item. One probably has to buy it from a local source... whoever/whatever that may be!) Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt King" To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 12:26 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Carbide > Hey, why not order from the UK? We have some of the most reliable and > cost-effective dealers around? The post to the US also only takes about 5 > days. Or don't you think that your green-backs are good enough over here?? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 9:08 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > > I used to use carbide for my carbide lamps, for both caving and mineral > collecting in mines. I still have several lamps, of course, and I even > still have an old can or two of carbide, which still has some undeteriorated > & usable carbide in it (on exposure to moisture in the atmosphere, of > course, it gradually reacts to form a powder of calcium hydroxide, and > ultimately calcium carbonate). (No, I'm not offering to give away or sell > the carbide--just sharing reminiscences!) The cans themselves that I have, > are kind of becoming collector's items! But I think it's been some years, > since I've actually ever used the carbide lamps underground--not all that > many years, though (maybe 10, maybe less). > > > > I would think that suppliers of gear for cavers, might still sell cans of > carbide--you might try that on the internet. (I just tried searching thus, > on Google--found a place that sells carbide on the first shot. That first > company I found happened to have been in the UK so it's probably not where > you'd want to order anything, so I won't give the address--I'll let you find > something yourself.) (Actually, I looked at that site again--I see they > sell carbide lamps & accessories, and container for carrying carbide, but > not the actually material itself--but obviously, that must be available > elsewhere.) > > > > There was always something pleasantly old-fashioned and adventuresome > about using carbide lamps underground, instead of just batteries! (Even the > lamps would periodically clog and stop working--which I guess doesn't happen > that often, if you keep them clean.) > > > > best of luck, > > Pete, Denver CO > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 5 08:22:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Gary Brown) Date: Wed May 5 07:22:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide In-Reply-To: <003501c432aa$4583c830$0200a8c0@gametime> Message-ID: <00cb01c432ac$6677d6b0$6501a8c0@moose> The memories... That satisfying "pop" when you pull your hand across the sparker. That gurgling sound as the water hits the carbide in the lamp. The delightful smell of burning flesh as you go up a cave's "chimney" and you realize your lamp's flame is pointed at the back of your wrist. I had these neat little round scars on my upper arm for years.... Of course, nothing beats banging your light on a rock while crawling on your stomach in a tight passage, having the tip pop out, and trying to find the )(&^)*(&)( thing in the dark. Ah, youth! GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Ted > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 9:07 AM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > Hmmmm... I could have sworn that I included this link when I > responded earlier. http://www.calcium-carbide.com/ $13.80 a > pound is much better to my ears than $70. Again, I have not > ordered any from them, but the carbide price is more to my > liking. Still, I suggest checking your local acetylene > suppliers first. Both UPS and USPS ground transport can .... From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 5 08:32:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Frank de Wit) Date: Wed May 5 07:32:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide References: <00cb01c432ac$6677d6b0$6501a8c0@moose> Message-ID: <02dd01c432ad$9ad38160$aa7ba8c0@cm333814lt> yeah ! i climbed up a ladder underground and found out how hot carbide is also hahaha of course someone told me to watch out for that.... but that's one of those things you always have to error first :-) a few weeks ago I bent in front of a friend with my carbide burning... he's missing an eyebrow now ;-) hojje ! frank ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Brown" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 4:22 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > The memories... That satisfying "pop" when you pull your hand across the > sparker. That gurgling sound as the water hits the carbide in the lamp. > The delightful smell of burning flesh as you go up a cave's "chimney" and > you realize your lamp's flame is pointed at the back of your wrist. I had > these neat little round scars on my upper arm for years.... Of course, > nothing beats banging your light on a rock while crawling on your stomach in > a tight passage, having the tip pop out, and trying to find the )(&^)*(&)( > thing in the dark. Ah, youth! > > GcB > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Ted > > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 9:07 AM > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > > > > Hmmmm... I could have sworn that I included this link when I > > responded earlier. http://www.calcium-carbide.com/ $13.80 a > > pound is much better to my ears than $70. Again, I have not > > ordered any from them, but the carbide price is more to my > > liking. Still, I suggest checking your local acetylene > > suppliers first. Both UPS and USPS ground transport can .... > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 5 09:37:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Wed May 5 08:37:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sodalite Crystals Message-ID: <4A6A9F69.6B319F9F.0A970CBF@aol.com> Tim et al, Check out the sodalites on these pages before you make up your mind; sadly, they're probably all sold (not that I can afford 'em anyway!). http://www.alpineminerals.com/new_103.html http://www.alpineminerals.com/new_702.html Dream on! Bill Barr From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 5 12:00:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Horst Windisch) Date: Wed May 5 11:00:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide References: <050320041908.25541.409698B800045DA2000063C52161243646FF96948C9A8D9B909295@att.net> <02b801c43144$3046cce0$aa7ba8c0@cm333814lt> <011001c431e7$cdf4dec0$22d876d5@pandora.be> Message-ID: <002101c432c8$b9b4d320$923e27c4@horstspc> Hi everybody, Just two experiences of carbide and carbide lamps many years ago. As a kid, my dad used to drive us to Witbank in his 1937 Plymouth. Witbank is a town situated about 100 km east of Pretoria, in one of the richest coal mining areas in South Africa. Our friends lived on the outskirts of Witbank near a carbide factory. The smell from this plant still haunts me today. In the early seventies, the Pretoria Gem and Mineral Club (of which I was Chairman from 1967 to 2001) had an outing to visit the world-famous Sterkfontein Caves (just outside Krugersdorp). Our guide was a young African boy (about 16 years old) and he started off his guided tour addressing our group as follows:- "Friends, Romans and countrymen, lend me your ears.." and then he would carry on explaining the formations in the cave, the stalagmites and stalactites, and the various "scenes" (like "a warterfall", etc). Whilst we were walking inside the cave, single file, each one carrying a carbide lamp, somebody made a false move and set the silk petticoat of one of our members, Connie Neilson, alight. (Cannot recollect how we doused the flaming clothes). Horst----- Original Message ----- From: "herwig pelckmans" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:55 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Carbide > Frank, > > next time, try putting the carbide in an (old) sock, and then whack that > sock against the walls of the cave. The carbide pieces will stay in the sock > ... no more need for 2 hammers etc etc... > > Cheers, Herwig > > Herwig Pelckmans > Worldwide Mineral Collector > Cardijnstraat 12 > B-3530 Helchteren > Belgium Europe > http://www.xlizd.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frank de Wit" > To: > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 9:24 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > > underground they hate me for my smell > > but they love to have me around for the best light there is > > carbide lights out large rooms underground, where electric light only > gives > > you tunnel-vision > > (yep, I have a carbide fetisch, and use it almost every weekend > underground) > > [i love the after smell also driving back in the car; the lamp still > fuming > > a little ;-) > > > > i just buy my carbide in the nearby rockclimbing shop, but also bought it > > earlier at a speleo shop > > if you buy carbide, make sure you buy the stuff that is already in small > > pieces > > last weekend I was underground somewhere and had to refresh my carbide > > shit, only large chunks in my plastic can; so I had to hammer it into > small > > pieces > > but the floor was muddy, no hard rock to put the carbide on, and carbide > is > > almost the hardest stuff you can hammer on... > > the only solution then is to put the carbide on one hammer, and hammer on > it > > with the other hammer (do you carry 2 hammers?) > > keep one hand in front of your eyes, you don't want carbide-chips in your > > eye... and hammer with the other one > > and then find the smaller pieces everywhere around you in the mud (in the > > almost dark with a little electric light of the others ;-) > > the others had a lot of fun waiting for me ;-) > > > > someone also said: 'wait until he runs our of water'.... :-) > > does carbide also run on coca cola ? > > > > hojje! frank > > www.strahlen.org > > > > ps: as you can read... electric light is boring... > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 9:08 PM > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > > > > > I used to use carbide for my carbide lamps, for both caving and mineral > > collecting in mines. I still have several lamps, of course, and I even > > still have an old can or two of carbide, which still has some > undeteriorated > > & usable carbide in it (on exposure to moisture in the atmosphere, of > > course, it gradually reacts to form a powder of calcium hydroxide, and > > ultimately calcium carbonate). (No, I'm not offering to give away or sell > > the carbide--just sharing reminiscences!) The cans themselves that I > have, > > are kind of becoming collector's items! But I think it's been some years, > > since I've actually ever used the carbide lamps underground--not all that > > many years, though (maybe 10, maybe less). > > > > > > I would think that suppliers of gear for cavers, might still sell cans > of > > carbide--you might try that on the internet. (I just tried searching > thus, > > on Google--found a place that sells carbide on the first shot. That first > > company I found happened to have been in the UK so it's probably not where > > you'd want to order anything, so I won't give the address--I'll let you > find > > something yourself.) (Actually, I looked at that site again--I see they > > sell carbide lamps & accessories, and container for carrying carbide, but > > not the actually material itself--but obviously, that must be available > > elsewhere.) > > > > > > There was always something pleasantly old-fashioned and adventuresome > > about using carbide lamps underground, instead of just batteries! (Even > the > > lamps would periodically clog and stop working--which I guess doesn't > happen > > that often, if you keep them clean.) > > > > > > best of luck, > > > Pete, Denver CO > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 5 15:19:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed May 5 14:19:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Reverse of boys... Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20040505114130.02e98010@mail.aloha.net> I know the thread is over, but here is a geological reverse of peeing on a fire. Go to the URL below (you may have to cut and paste to make it one line) and see Madam Pele putting what the geologists called a "fire hose" on the ocean, back in July of 2000. http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/archive/2000/July/20000731-JK-0641_large.jpg Aloha, Kitty From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 5 15:38:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Gary Brown) Date: Wed May 5 14:38:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide In-Reply-To: <002101c432c8$b9b4d320$923e27c4@horstspc> Message-ID: <004f01c432e9$609717a0$6501a8c0@moose> It's fun in winter to put a hunk of carbide on a chunk of ice, spit on the carbide, and light the acetylene. As the gas burns, it melts more ice, making more gas, etc etc. Kinda fun. gcb From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 5 16:17:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed May 5 15:17:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide References: <004f01c432e9$609717a0$6501a8c0@moose> Message-ID: <001701c432ee$abc00570$6402a8c0@axel> Perhaps a word of caution: Never throw calciumcarbide in water that has salts of copper (or any heavy metal) in it. The acetylene reacts with the copper to form coppercarbide which precipitates as a dirty green gel. As long as it is kept wet, the coppercarbide is OK but if you let it dry it becomes a high explosive. The slightest vibration of friction will cause it to detonate (not explode, detonate!). Quite literally: dropping an eyelash in the dried coppercabide or slamming a door is all it takes. The explosive force is comparable with that of nitrosyl iodide or mercury fulminate. A few milligrams can cost you a finger or more. Should the water that you use be impure (iron may also form an unstable carbide, I'm not sure) and become cloudy with a brown or green precipitate, you can always secure your safety by adding some hydrochloric acid to it until it becomes clear before disposing of it. Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Brown" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:38 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > It's fun in winter to put a hunk of carbide on a chunk of ice, spit on the > carbide, and light the acetylene. As the gas burns, it melts more ice, > making more gas, etc etc. Kinda fun. > > gcb > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 5 19:00:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Wed May 5 18:00:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] small rock cutter Message-ID: I am looking for a small rock cutter to make my own stone "plates" to be polished (as I can't seem to find a supplier). Where do I start looking? I can't seem to come up with the correct terminology for finding one. Thanks, Audie --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 5 19:04:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Wed May 5 18:04:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] small rock cutter Message-ID: <1e0.1fad0647.2dcae8f9@aol.com> In a message dated 5/5/2004 9:00:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, Audiebair@cs.com writes: I am looking for a small rock cutter to make my own stone "plates" to be polished (as I can't seem to find a supplier). Where do I start looking? I can't seem to come up with the correct terminology for finding one. Thanks, Audie You are looking for a diamond bladed saw. Many sources. I suggest looking up Kingsley North for a start. They carry several brands - new. The used market is the cheapest but you have to be willing to wait for a good machine at a good price. Dan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 5 19:14:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Wed May 5 18:14:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] small rock cutter Message-ID: Sounds like you mean a "slab saw" if you want to make plates. These will typically have a vise to hold the stone and some mechanism for moving it past the blade. If you want a little one where you hold the stone in your hands and cut it yourself, those are "trim saws" People will quote the size of the blade in inches. The biggest cut you can make will be about a third of that. Flint --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 5 19:59:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed May 5 18:59:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] small rock cutter References: Message-ID: <40999BC8.7E6@Tomaszewski.net> Audiebair@cs.com wrote: > > I am looking for a small rock cutter to make my own stone "plates" to be > polished (as I can't seem to find a supplier). Where do I start looking? I can't > seem to come up with the correct terminology for finding one. > > Thanks, Audie Audie, Depends on what you mean by plates. If you are talking about making flat slices (aka, slabs) thru rock and then polishing one face you need a slab saw for cutting the rock, and then a vibratory tumbler to polish the faces. If you mean like dinner plates, with a sunken middle/raised edge shape you still need the saw to get the starting slab, but then you need a rock lathe to do the shaping and polishing. The best place to start looking is for a local rock club (try at www.amfed.org). Almost every rock club has at least one person who is willing/eager to teach the lapidary arts to a willing student. Unless you are getting a really super deal on equipment it makes sense to learn the art and lingo before spending good money for adequate lapidary hardware because you will then know what to look for. Or you make plates the old fashioned way using all hand tools...feathers and wedges (or wood and water) to split the rock, and work with loose grit on a flat hard surface (another split rock and get two polished faces at the same time, plate glass, metal plate, etc.) by hand to grind and polish the surface (may need a pitch lap for polishing). Kreigh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 5 20:52:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed May 5 19:52:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] what are First Principles and how do they relate to earth science? References: <409852B4.C449A6CE@att.net> Message-ID: <4099A824.402D@Tomaszewski.net> Don, My understanding is that 'first principals' are the "givens" -- facts so well proved they are taken as "defined"; axioms -- or generally accepted theory from which all else can be derived. 'First Principals' are those concepts where, once you understand them, you say "Duh!", and everything (related) falls into place; they seem obvious once you understand. Kreigh Don H wrote: > > Hi, > > The latest in an occasional series of bizarre questions: in chemistry > class, and in some readings on chemistry and earth sciences, I sometimes > encounter the term "First Principles." When the chemistry professor > used the term, I asked what it meant, and he said something about > learning it in physics: so much for getting my tuition's worth. In any > case, a web search reveals a staggering array of subjects, from Greek > philosophy (which may be the relevant entry) to weird ethical and > religious diatribes and everything in between. > > In any event, there are occasional references to some work being done > "based on First Principles," so I imagine it would help if I know what > they are. > > Best regards, > > Don From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 5 21:13:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Dave Bese) Date: Wed May 5 20:13:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide Message-ID: OK, enough! Find a local Model T Club. Early Model Ts use arbide lamps. I'm sure someone there will know a local supplier. --- David Bese The Rainforest Hippie Pt. Orchard, Wa. "There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some reason in madness." "Turbulence is life force. It is opportunity. Let's love turbulence and use it for change." "Every time you don't follow your inner guidance, you feel a loss of energy, loss of power, a sense of spiritual deadness." ____________________________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 5 21:39:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tom Bowers) Date: Wed May 5 20:39:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] First Principles In-Reply-To: <4099A824.402D@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <20040506033824.80955.qmail@web61007.mail.yahoo.com> For a good philosophical explanation of "first principles" see: http://www.friesian.com/founda-1.htm Tom __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 5 21:56:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed May 5 20:56:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide References: Message-ID: <4099B743.5948@Tomaszewski.net> Dave Bese wrote: > > OK, enough! Find a local Model T Club. Early Model Ts use arbide lamps. I'm sure someone there will know a local supplier. > > --- > David Bese Thank you David! I love learning new connections from rockhounding to unrelated subjects; left field -- third base...who ordered that? The next class I haul my collecton to for a presentation is going to hear that tidibt to help connect mining to something they (possably/hopefully already) know. If it isn't grown, it was mined. Kreigh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 5 22:01:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Frederick Olmstead) Date: Wed May 5 21:01:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineralcollecting.org field trip report References: Message-ID: <4099BB60.425E@rcn.com> HI THIS WAS SENT TO THE ROCKHOUNDS LIST at rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com THOUGHT YOU MIGHT BE INTERESTED. GeorgiaO __..--..__..--..__ Henry Barwood wrote: > > My son, Adam Barwood, has posted a report on his recent collecting at a > construction site near the town of Alabaster, Alabama. Although collecting > is difficult, and requires lots of sledgehammer work, excellent specimens of > rockbridgeite, beraunite, cacoxenite and strengite have been found. The link > below will take you to it: > > http://www.mineralcollecting.org/forum/master.cgi?action=ViewPost&post=186&l > ocation=&collapse=&user= > > Henry Barwood > Associate Professor of Science, Earth Science > Department of Math and Physics > MSCX 312G > Troy State University > Troy, Alabama 36082 > hbarwood@troyst.edu > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 6 01:20:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Thu May 6 00:20:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide In-Reply-To: <001701c432ee$abc00570$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: Never knew this. I don't use carbide, but I do collect old miner lamps. With this danger in mind I wonder why so many carbide lamps are made of brass?? Cheers, Maurice -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: 06 May 2004 00:17 To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Carbide Perhaps a word of caution: Never throw calciumcarbide in water that has salts of copper (or any heavy metal) in it. The acetylene reacts with the copper to form coppercarbide which precipitates as a dirty green gel. As long as it is kept wet, the coppercarbide is OK but if you let it dry it becomes a high explosive. The slightest vibration of friction will cause it to detonate (not explode, detonate!). Quite literally: dropping an eyelash in the dried coppercabide or slamming a door is all it takes. The explosive force is comparable with that of nitrosyl iodide or mercury fulminate. A few milligrams can cost you a finger or more. Should the water that you use be impure (iron may also form an unstable carbide, I'm not sure) and become cloudy with a brown or green precipitate, you can always secure your safety by adding some hydrochloric acid to it until it becomes clear before disposing of it. Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Brown" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:38 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > It's fun in winter to put a hunk of carbide on a chunk of ice, spit on the > carbide, and light the acetylene. As the gas burns, it melts more ice, > making more gas, etc etc. Kinda fun. > > gcb > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 6 02:40:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu May 6 01:40:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide References: Message-ID: <001501c43345$bba29190$6402a8c0@axel> Hi Maurice, the reaction between calciumcarbide and water results in acetylene, which escapes, and Ca(OH)2 which makes the water slightly caustic. Strong bases like KOH or NAOH can react with amphoteric metals like Zn, Pb, Sn, Al... forming zincates, plumbates, stannates and aluminates. I don't know if such strong bases can extract the tin and zinc from brass but Ca(OH) is a much weaker base. There's an easy test: is brass is attacked by a strong base, you would see hydrogen bubbles forming and escaping. Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice de Graaf" To: Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:19 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > Never knew this. I don't use carbide, but I do collect old miner lamps. > With this danger in mind I wonder why so many carbide lamps are made of > brass?? > > Cheers, > Maurice > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann > Sent: 06 May 2004 00:17 > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > Perhaps a word of caution: > Never throw calciumcarbide in water that has salts of copper (or any heavy > metal) in it. > The acetylene reacts with the copper to form coppercarbide which > precipitates as a dirty green gel. > As long as it is kept wet, the coppercarbide is OK but if you let it dry it > becomes a high explosive. The slightest vibration of friction will cause it > to detonate (not explode, detonate!). Quite literally: dropping an eyelash > in the dried coppercabide or slamming a door is all it takes. > The explosive force is comparable with that of nitrosyl iodide or mercury > fulminate. A few milligrams can cost you a finger or more. > Should the water that you use be impure (iron may also form an unstable > carbide, I'm not sure) and become cloudy with a brown or green precipitate, > you can always secure your safety by adding some hydrochloric acid to it > until it becomes clear before disposing of it. > > Cheers > > Axel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gary Brown" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:38 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > > It's fun in winter to put a hunk of carbide on a chunk of ice, spit on the > > carbide, and light the acetylene. As the gas burns, it melts more ice, > > making more gas, etc etc. Kinda fun. > > > > gcb > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 6 03:26:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Thu May 6 02:26:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide In-Reply-To: <001501c43345$bba29190$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: Hi Axel, Well brass DOES react with diluted NaOH. Last week I used this to make my brass table lamp a little more 'antique'. The lamp was shiny new brass and a quick bath in very diluted NaOH (I put my hands in it too and they are still attached to my body)gave the lamp a bronze like color. So caustic solutions make brass tarnish quicker. 'No' chemical reaction without solution, so I assume that brass will slightly dissolve in mildly caustic environments. Science is testing your hypothesis and indeed there are blue and green crusts inside the carbide containers of my brass carbide lamps..... Arrghhhh :-) Cheers Maurice -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: 06 May 2004 10:40 To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Carbide Hi Maurice, the reaction between calciumcarbide and water results in acetylene, which escapes, and Ca(OH)2 which makes the water slightly caustic. Strong bases like KOH or NAOH can react with amphoteric metals like Zn, Pb, Sn, Al... forming zincates, plumbates, stannates and aluminates. I don't know if such strong bases can extract the tin and zinc from brass but Ca(OH) is a much weaker base. There's an easy test: is brass is attacked by a strong base, you would see hydrogen bubbles forming and escaping. Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice de Graaf" To: Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:19 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > Never knew this. I don't use carbide, but I do collect old miner lamps. > With this danger in mind I wonder why so many carbide lamps are made of > brass?? > > Cheers, > Maurice > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann > Sent: 06 May 2004 00:17 > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > Perhaps a word of caution: > Never throw calciumcarbide in water that has salts of copper (or any heavy > metal) in it. > The acetylene reacts with the copper to form coppercarbide which > precipitates as a dirty green gel. > As long as it is kept wet, the coppercarbide is OK but if you let it dry it > becomes a high explosive. The slightest vibration of friction will cause it > to detonate (not explode, detonate!). Quite literally: dropping an eyelash > in the dried coppercabide or slamming a door is all it takes. > The explosive force is comparable with that of nitrosyl iodide or mercury > fulminate. A few milligrams can cost you a finger or more. > Should the water that you use be impure (iron may also form an unstable > carbide, I'm not sure) and become cloudy with a brown or green precipitate, > you can always secure your safety by adding some hydrochloric acid to it > until it becomes clear before disposing of it. > > Cheers > > Axel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gary Brown" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:38 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > > It's fun in winter to put a hunk of carbide on a chunk of ice, spit on the > > carbide, and light the acetylene. As the gas burns, it melts more ice, > > making more gas, etc etc. Kinda fun. > > > > gcb > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 6 05:37:07 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu May 6 04:37:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide References: Message-ID: <000901c4335e$6a9e2cf0$6402a8c0@axel> Slowly... very slowly move away from the object, Maurice, and whatever you do: DON ' T SNEEZE (LOL) The crust is probably copper oxide from the slightly caustic solution. The copper never went into solution so the chances of forming coppercarbide are very slim.... Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice de Graaf" To: Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > Hi Axel, > > Well brass DOES react with diluted NaOH. Last week I used this to make my > brass table lamp a little more 'antique'. The lamp was shiny new brass and a > quick bath in very diluted NaOH (I put my hands in it too and they are still > attached to my body)gave the lamp a bronze like color. So caustic solutions > make brass tarnish quicker. 'No' chemical reaction without solution, so I > assume that brass will slightly dissolve in mildly caustic environments. > > Science is testing your hypothesis and indeed there are blue and green > crusts inside the carbide containers of my brass carbide lamps..... Arrghhhh > :-) > > Cheers > > Maurice > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann > Sent: 06 May 2004 10:40 > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > Hi Maurice, > > the reaction between calciumcarbide and water results in acetylene, which > escapes, and Ca(OH)2 which makes the water slightly caustic. > Strong bases like KOH or NAOH can react with amphoteric metals like Zn, Pb, > Sn, Al... forming zincates, plumbates, stannates and aluminates. > I don't know if such strong bases can extract the tin and zinc from brass > but Ca(OH) is a much weaker base. > There's an easy test: is brass is attacked by a strong base, you would see > hydrogen bubbles forming and escaping. > > Cheers > > Axel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Maurice de Graaf" > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:19 AM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > > Never knew this. I don't use carbide, but I do collect old miner lamps. > > With this danger in mind I wonder why so many carbide lamps are made of > > brass?? > > > > Cheers, > > Maurice > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann > > Sent: 06 May 2004 00:17 > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > > > > Perhaps a word of caution: > > Never throw calciumcarbide in water that has salts of copper (or any heavy > > metal) in it. > > The acetylene reacts with the copper to form coppercarbide which > > precipitates as a dirty green gel. > > As long as it is kept wet, the coppercarbide is OK but if you let it dry > it > > becomes a high explosive. The slightest vibration of friction will cause > it > > to detonate (not explode, detonate!). Quite literally: dropping an eyelash > > in the dried coppercabide or slamming a door is all it takes. > > The explosive force is comparable with that of nitrosyl iodide or mercury > > fulminate. A few milligrams can cost you a finger or more. > > Should the water that you use be impure (iron may also form an unstable > > carbide, I'm not sure) and become cloudy with a brown or green > precipitate, > > you can always secure your safety by adding some hydrochloric acid to it > > until it becomes clear before disposing of it. > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gary Brown" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:38 PM > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > > > > > It's fun in winter to put a hunk of carbide on a chunk of ice, spit on > the > > > carbide, and light the acetylene. As the gas burns, it melts more ice, > > > making more gas, etc etc. Kinda fun. > > > > > > gcb > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 6 20:03:07 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu May 6 19:03:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide In-Reply-To: <001501c43345$bba29190$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: Zinc can be removed from brass by a corrosion process called dezincification. It's a problem in large heat exchangers which often have admiralty brass tubes and or tubesheets. IIRC ammonia accelerates the process. Bryan Lex et Libertas -- Semper Vigilo, Paratus, et Fidelis! > Hi Maurice, > > the reaction between calciumcarbide and water results in acetylene, which > escapes, and Ca(OH)2 which makes the water slightly caustic. > Strong bases like KOH or NAOH can react with amphoteric metals > like Zn, Pb, > Sn, Al... forming zincates, plumbates, stannates and aluminates. > I don't know if such strong bases can extract the tin and zinc from brass > but Ca(OH) is a much weaker base. > There's an easy test: is brass is attacked by a strong base, you would see > hydrogen bubbles forming and escaping. > > Cheers > > Axel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Maurice de Graaf" > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:19 AM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > > Never knew this. I don't use carbide, but I do collect old miner lamps. > > With this danger in mind I wonder why so many carbide lamps are made of > > brass?? > > > > Cheers, > > Maurice > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann > > Sent: 06 May 2004 00:17 > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > > > > Perhaps a word of caution: > > Never throw calciumcarbide in water that has salts of copper > (or any heavy > > metal) in it. > > The acetylene reacts with the copper to form coppercarbide which > > precipitates as a dirty green gel. > > As long as it is kept wet, the coppercarbide is OK but if you let it dry > it > > becomes a high explosive. The slightest vibration of friction will cause > it > > to detonate (not explode, detonate!). Quite literally: dropping > an eyelash > > in the dried coppercabide or slamming a door is all it takes. > > The explosive force is comparable with that of nitrosyl iodide > or mercury > > fulminate. A few milligrams can cost you a finger or more. > > Should the water that you use be impure (iron may also form an unstable > > carbide, I'm not sure) and become cloudy with a brown or green > precipitate, > > you can always secure your safety by adding some hydrochloric acid to it > > until it becomes clear before disposing of it. > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gary Brown" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:38 PM > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > > > > > It's fun in winter to put a hunk of carbide on a chunk of ice, spit on > the > > > carbide, and light the acetylene. As the gas burns, it melts > more ice, > > > making more gas, etc etc. Kinda fun. > > > > > > gcb > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 6 20:03:42 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu May 6 19:03:42 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Interesting! This site has info on Silver and Copper Carbide including short movies of the detonation. http://www.powerlabs.org/chemlabs/acetylide.htm Bryan Lex et Libertas -- Semper Vigilo, Paratus, et Fidelis! > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Maurice de Graaf > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 02:20 > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > Never knew this. I don't use carbide, but I do collect old miner lamps. > With this danger in mind I wonder why so many carbide lamps are made of > brass?? > > Cheers, > Maurice > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann > Sent: 06 May 2004 00:17 > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > Perhaps a word of caution: > Never throw calciumcarbide in water that has salts of copper (or any heavy > metal) in it. > The acetylene reacts with the copper to form coppercarbide which > precipitates as a dirty green gel. > As long as it is kept wet, the coppercarbide is OK but if you let > it dry it > becomes a high explosive. The slightest vibration of friction > will cause it > to detonate (not explode, detonate!). Quite literally: dropping an eyelash > in the dried coppercabide or slamming a door is all it takes. > The explosive force is comparable with that of nitrosyl iodide or mercury > fulminate. A few milligrams can cost you a finger or more. > Should the water that you use be impure (iron may also form an unstable > carbide, I'm not sure) and become cloudy with a brown or green > precipitate, > you can always secure your safety by adding some hydrochloric acid to it > until it becomes clear before disposing of it. > > Cheers > > Axel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gary Brown" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:38 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > > It's fun in winter to put a hunk of carbide on a chunk of ice, > spit on the > > carbide, and light the acetylene. As the gas burns, it melts more ice, > > making more gas, etc etc. Kinda fun. > > > > gcb > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 6 20:05:24 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (robert willis) Date: Thu May 6 19:05:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Bruno Jasper Message-ID: Bruno Jasper has been under claim for 20 - 30 years or so. It is south of Mountain Home, Idaho, on the Bruno River. The clamiant is Scarrows Rock Shop, located in Jerome. He always has pcs. for sale and on display. It`s not cheap. Robert T. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 6 20:06:51 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Don H) Date: Thu May 6 19:06:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] First Principles References: <20040506033824.80955.qmail@web61007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <409AE82F.4F42E8B0@att.net> Tom Bowers wrote: > > For a good philosophical explanation of "first principles" see: > > http://www.friesian.com/founda-1.htm Thanks--this is one of the sites that made sense, though I still didn't see the direct relation to chemistry and physics. Thanks to everyone who responded. Don of many principles From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 6 21:05:03 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Thu May 6 20:05:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide References: Message-ID: <002901c433e0$38305900$82a6490c@pete> Well! I was very interested to hear this (originally from Axel here) about copper and other metal carbides forming, and being explosive. I was a big "chemistry nut" back in high school, and I majored in chem in college too (later turned to geology/geochemistry), but I must say, I'd never heard about the copper carbide before--and here I thought I knew about all the neat pyrotechnic and explosive materials that could readily be synthesized! Though I must wonder (please, now, not trying to doubt any of this information--but maybe I just like to be skeptical), because I've certainly never heard of anyone's carbide lamp blowing up. Perhaps the exact conditions needed to form any significant amount of copper carbide are very specific and not all the commonly attained, and there's really not much of a likelihood in normal operations, to combine the acetylene and copper in just the right way? Of course, I've got some carbide and certainly some copper salts... maybe I ought to just give it a bit of a careful try and see what happens... So cheers, (and it WAS interesting to read this--I'll have to take a look at the detonation video), Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 2:31 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > Interesting! This site has info on Silver and Copper Carbide including short movies of the detonation. > http://www.powerlabs.org/chemlabs/acetylide.htm > Bryan > > Never knew this. I don't use carbide, but I do collect old miner lamps. With this danger in mind I wonder why so many carbide lamps are made of brass?? > > Never throw calciumcarbide in water that has salts of copper (or any heavy metal) in it. The acetylene reacts with the copper to form coppercarbide which precipitates as a dirty green gel. As long as it is kept wet, the coppercarbide is OK but if you let it dry it becomes a high explosive. The slightest vibration of ... From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 6 21:05:24 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu May 6 20:05:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide References: Message-ID: <409AFCB9.C30@Tomaszewski.net> Sam Barros is an interesting young man with a great website. Take time to go to his home page and find his electromagnetic rail gun; I'de love to have one to 'throw' a chisel the next time I need to crack a big rock. Kreigh J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > Interesting! This site has info on Silver and Copper Carbide including short > movies of the detonation. > > http://www.powerlabs.org/chemlabs/acetylide.htm > > Bryan > > Lex et Libertas -- Semper Vigilo, Paratus, et Fidelis! > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Maurice de Graaf > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 02:20 > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > > > > Never knew this. I don't use carbide, but I do collect old miner lamps. > > With this danger in mind I wonder why so many carbide lamps are made of > > brass?? > > > > Cheers, > > Maurice > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann > > Sent: 06 May 2004 00:17 > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > > > > Perhaps a word of caution: > > Never throw calciumcarbide in water that has salts of copper (or any heavy > > metal) in it. > > The acetylene reacts with the copper to form coppercarbide which > > precipitates as a dirty green gel. > > As long as it is kept wet, the coppercarbide is OK but if you let > > it dry it > > becomes a high explosive. The slightest vibration of friction > > will cause it > > to detonate (not explode, detonate!). Quite literally: dropping an eyelash > > in the dried coppercabide or slamming a door is all it takes. > > The explosive force is comparable with that of nitrosyl iodide or mercury > > fulminate. A few milligrams can cost you a finger or more. > > Should the water that you use be impure (iron may also form an unstable > > carbide, I'm not sure) and become cloudy with a brown or green > > precipitate, > > you can always secure your safety by adding some hydrochloric acid to it > > until it becomes clear before disposing of it. > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gary Brown" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:38 PM > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > > > > > It's fun in winter to put a hunk of carbide on a chunk of ice, > > spit on the > > > carbide, and light the acetylene. As the gas burns, it melts more ice, > > > making more gas, etc etc. Kinda fun. > > > > > > gcb > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 7 00:08:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Thu May 6 23:08:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gold panning in Colorado? Message-ID: <7d.4d6b6052.2dcc8183@aol.com> Hey everyone, I will be going back to Colorado this July and was wondering if anyone could give me insight on where to go in the area of Badger Creek in Freemont County, Salida County areas? I also want to know of what other minerals can be found in these locations? All rocks would be favored. I have found Topaz and garnets at the Beuna Vista's Ruby Mountain and nice agates in the Freemont county in the old Ute Indian grounds close to the cabin. Every time I go there I find something different. Turet has nice calcite vugs to pick at. Tough to get tho. Every time I go back there the area has been dug in so much that there is a lot of difference in the way it looks but I always find nice specimens. My main areas of interest are the gold panning areas around the Badger creek area. Our cabin is real close to this so I am looking for anyone who is farmiliar with this place. I will be taking my daughter to see the mountains(the really big ones) for the first time. Can't wait. Thanks for any help. Kevin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 7 09:07:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri May 7 08:07:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carbide References: <002901c433e0$38305900$82a6490c@pete> Message-ID: <001d01c43444$f6133190$6402a8c0@axel> Hi Pete, The best way to produce coppercarbide is to lead acetylene gas through a copper solution. In the copper or brass lamps, the calciumcarbide is dissociated into calciumhydroxide and acetylene. The hydroxide effectively precipitates any copper or zinc that goes into solution before it can react with the gas. One of my classmates produced e few milligrams of coppercarbide and threw it in the sink before the teacher had a chance to warm him (to dissolve the stuff in acid before discarding it...) Next lab-practice somebody accidentally dropped the sink plug (one of those thick heavy lab models that weigh about a kilo) in the sink... The following explosion ruptured several meters of plumbing and all the sink plugs in that section of the lab shot dents in the ceiling. No one was hurt. Coppercabide make great fly-cather in the summer... Put some drops with the coppercarbide gel on cubes of sugar and let them dry in the sun. When flies land on the cubes... entomological minefield.... Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" To: Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 5:05 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Carbide > Well! I was very interested to hear this (originally from Axel here) about > copper and other metal carbides forming, and being explosive. I was a big > "chemistry nut" back in high school, and I majored in chem in college too > (later turned to geology/geochemistry), but I must say, I'd never heard > about the copper carbide before--and here I thought I knew about all the > neat pyrotechnic and explosive materials that could readily be synthesized! > > Though I must wonder (please, now, not trying to doubt any of this > information--but maybe I just like to be skeptical), because I've certainly > never heard of anyone's carbide lamp blowing up. Perhaps the exact > conditions needed to form any significant amount of copper carbide are very > specific and not all the commonly attained, and there's really not much of a > likelihood in normal operations, to combine the acetylene and copper in just > the right way? > > Of course, I've got some carbide and certainly some copper salts... maybe I > ought to just give it a bit of a careful try and see what happens... > > So cheers, (and it WAS interesting to read this--I'll have to take a look at > the detonation video), > Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "J Bryan Kramer" > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 2:31 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Carbide > > > > Interesting! This site has info on Silver and Copper Carbide including > short movies of the detonation. > > http://www.powerlabs.org/chemlabs/acetylide.htm > > Bryan > > > > > Never knew this. I don't use carbide, but I do collect old miner lamps. > With this danger in mind I wonder why so many carbide lamps are made of > brass?? > > > Never throw calciumcarbide in water that has salts of copper (or any > heavy metal) in it. The acetylene reacts with the copper to form > coppercarbide which precipitates as a dirty green gel. As long as it is kept > wet, the coppercarbide is OK but if you let it dry it > becomes a high explosive. The slightest vibration of ... > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 7 09:39:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri May 7 08:39:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] SW WA & NW OR Field Trip List In-Reply-To: <001d01c43444$f6133190$6402a8c0@axel> References: <002901c433e0$38305900$82a6490c@pete> <001d01c43444$f6133190$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: <6.1.0.3.2.20040507083708.02565dd8@mail.spiritone.com> Is now available on my site, click the link below. There are two trips tomorrow, to Dolph's rock shop in Rufus, OR (he has closed to the general public and only opens for clubs now) and the Lily Pad jasper not-a-claim (I love the BLM - NOT!) with the Mt. Hood Rock Club... Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 7 09:49:25 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri May 7 08:49:25 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Maps In-Reply-To: <9b.47293177.2dc28fc0@aol.com> References: <9b.47293177.2dc28fc0@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.1.0.3.2.20040507084725.0257deb0@mail.spiritone.com> I have been there; they are probably Tui Chub. Very common, even pestiferous fish lol. The rare fishes of the area are almost exclusively found in isolated springs... At 10:05 AM 4/29/2004, you wrote: I really just like going to Lost Creek to be in the Lost Creek canyon. One time I was back there for over 24 hour then a truck with three cowboys in it drove by -- but heavy traffic like that is unusual. Getting there from the highway is a 10 mile drive on a dirt road with nothing but sagebrush along the road. Then you drop into a narrow, aspen lined canyon with steep bluffs that raise up on both sides. The canyon is just wide enough for the creek, the dirt road, the trees, and me. There are schools of small fish in the creek but I'm not sure what kind fish they are. They are probably one of those species that only exist in the Great Basin. I've seen golden eagles in the area too. It is a great place to be alone, surrounded by nature, and you can drive right to it. That is a plus at my age. My days of packing in on a trail are over. Grant Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site Owner, Fisher Fisheries, Ltd. nospam@OreRockOn.com WWW http://OreRockOn.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 7 09:50:03 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri May 7 08:50:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Maps Message-ID: <6.1.0.3.2.20040507084859.0258b988@mail.spiritone.com> I have been there; they are probably Tui Chub. Very common, even pestiferous fish lol. The rare fishes of the area are almost exclusively found in isolated springs... At 10:05 AM 4/29/2004, you wrote: >I really just like going to Lost Creek to be in the Lost Creek canyon. One >time I was back there for over 24 hour then a truck with three cowboys in it >drove by -- but heavy traffic like that is unusual. > >Getting there from the highway is a 10 mile drive on a dirt road with nothing >but sagebrush along the road. Then you drop into a narrow, aspen lined canyon >with steep bluffs that raise up on both sides. The canyon is just wide enough >for the creek, the dirt road, the trees, and me. There are schools of small >fish in the creek but I'm not sure what kind fish they are. They are probably >one of those species that only exist in the Great Basin. I've seen golden >eagles in the area too. It is a great place to be alone, surrounded by >nature, and >you can drive right to it. That is a plus at my age. My days of packing in on >a trail are over. > >Grant Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site Owner, Fisher Fisheries, Ltd. nospam@OreRockOn.com WWW http://OreRockOn.com From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 7 09:54:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri May 7 08:54:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] History of Lapidary Equipment Makers In-Reply-To: <1a9.237574b5.2dc5a003@aol.com> References: <1a9.237574b5.2dc5a003@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.1.0.3.2.20040507085154.0258b988@mail.spiritone.com> In my mind Star Diamond = MK Diamond = Barranca. You will eventually be dealing with Barranca if you deal any of their products... At 05:51 PM 5/1/2004, you wrote: >Are you sure of this? I thought Star Diamond was bought by MK diamond. I >know that when I bent my SD blade badly and I called the manufacturer' number >found in the paper that came with it, MK answered the phone. Of course, >MK took >my blade and sent it to Barranca for the treatment. > >Maybe that's splitting hairs because there's some blood relationship between >the companies. Barranca's owner is the son of MK's owner if my memory serves. > >While you're doing this, maybe it would be fun to get details of everyones >old equipment and comments from long-time users. For instance. I have a >FranTom 14 inch that has had an 18 inch blade in it. I'm using it in sump >mode, but >with a pump I'll bet I could squeeze a 20 incher in. I'd like to hear if >other's over-inch their saws. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 7 10:01:04 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Lanny) Date: Fri May 7 09:01:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] SW WA & NW OR Field Trip List In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.3.2.20040507083708.02565dd8@mail.spiritone.com> References: <002901c433e0$38305900$82a6490c@pete> <001d01c43444$f6133190$6402a8c0@axel> <6.1.0.3.2.20040507083708.02565dd8@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: Hi Tim, I'm curious about the Lily Pad jasper not-a-claim deal and the BLM. What is the problem? Lanny On May 7, 2004, at 8:38 AM, Tim Fisher wrote: > Is now available on my site, click the link below. There are two trips > tomorrow, to Dolph's rock shop in Rufus, OR (he has closed to the > general public and only opens for clubs now) and the Lily Pad jasper > not-a-claim (I love the BLM - NOT!) with the Mt. Hood Rock Club... > > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD > Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary > Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers > Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale > Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore > _______________________________________________ > ****************************************** Lanny R. Ream - LR Ream Publishing Publisher of MinDex, the Mineral Locality - Mineral Periodical Index Idaho Minerals and other books; back issues of Mineral News www. LRReam.com ******************************************* From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 7 10:19:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Fri May 7 09:19:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] History of Lapidary Equipment Makers Message-ID: <050720041618.5049.409BB6C9000400CF000013B92160376316FF8D9E8B8C989196918D90@att.net> > >with a pump I'll bet I could squeeze a 20 incher in. I'd like to hear if > >other's over-inch their saws. I'd like to hear that too. I have a nice Lortone 10-inch enclosure, but the usable edge on that is about 4.5 inches. I'd like to run a 12" or perhaps 14" blade on it. I can't think of any reason why not; The rotational veolcity of the rim will be faster, and the motor shouldn't have any more trouble spinning the blade . . . or am I missing something? Don From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 7 11:34:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri May 7 10:34:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Bruno Jasper In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.1.0.3.2.20040507085708.0257deb0@mail.spiritone.com> First, it's the Bruneau River canyon, ID, not Bruno. Second, it's a Wilderness Study Area, RUMORED to be slated for full wilderness status in 2005. The claim may be grandfathered in; then again it may not... At 05:32 PM 5/6/2004, you wrote: > Bruno Jasper has been under claim for 20 - 30 years or so. It is south > of Mountain Home, Idaho, on the Bruno River. The clamiant is Scarrows > Rock Shop, located in Jerome. He always has pcs. for sale and on display. > It`s not cheap. Robert T. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 7 11:39:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Fri May 7 10:39:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Larger Blades in smaller saws Message-ID: I would not know what the pros and cons are for installing a 12" blade in a 10" saw enclosure.. Since your saw is a Lortone, call the company and ask what the pros and cons are. Of course, I assume Lortone will most likely not like the idea.. However, After they tell you the overall info, then you can at least make an informed decision... Good Luck and let us all know RocknLight --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 7 11:40:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri May 7 10:40:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] SW WA & NW OR Field Trip List In-Reply-To: References: <002901c433e0$38305900$82a6490c@pete> <001d01c43444$f6133190$6402a8c0@axel> <6.1.0.3.2.20040507083708.02565dd8@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <6.1.0.3.2.20040507103539.01f3cd88@mail.spiritone.com> We can't claim anything on "acquired lands", for some stupid administrative reason. I was by yesterday and noticed that someone (probably the BLM) took my claim markers down. Wasted a day delineating and marking it for the club 2 years ago...I am going to mark and claim most of the Prineville C of C digs in the next few summers...they begged us to claim them again so they don't get shut down. We already have Fallen Tree thundereggs and HAD Steens Mtn. thundereggs until it was dropped by the "responsible party" lol. In the Steens wilderness now... At 09:00 AM 5/7/2004, you wrote: >Hi Tim, > >I'm curious about the Lily Pad jasper not-a-claim deal and the BLM. What >is the problem? > >Lanny > >On May 7, 2004, at 8:38 AM, Tim Fisher wrote: > >>Is now available on my site, click the link below. There are two trips >>tomorrow, to Dolph's rock shop in Rufus, OR (he has closed to the general >>public and only opens for clubs now) and the Lily Pad jasper not-a-claim >>(I love the BLM - NOT!) with the Mt. Hood Rock Club... Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 7 13:07:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Fri May 7 12:07:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gold panning in Colorado? In-Reply-To: <7d.4d6b6052.2dcc8183@aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Kevin, First I must tell you that the best area at Ruby Mountain (on the west side) is no longer accessible to collecting. I have heard that the east side is still accessible, but I've never been on that side. As for Badger Creek, I have not been there yet. Also, there is no Salida County. Maybe you mean Park County. :-) The town of Salida is in Chaffee County, but Badger Creek goes south from Park County into Fremont County and empties into the Arkansas River east of Salida. For the gold panning, check out this web page for possible contacts: http://www.goldminershq.com/FRAME/CLUBS/GOLD1.HTM#Anchor-COxxx Good luck! Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Paintricks@aol.com Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 12:07 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Gold panning in Colorado? Hey everyone, I will be going back to Colorado this July and was wondering if anyone could give me insight on where to go in the area of Badger Creek in Freemont County, Salida County areas? I also want to know of what other minerals can be found in these locations? All rocks would be favored. I have found Topaz and garnets at the Beuna Vista's Ruby Mountain and nice agates in the Freemont county in the old Ute Indian grounds close to the cabin. Every time I go there I find something different. Turet has nice calcite vugs to pick at. Tough to get tho. Every time I go back there the area has been dug in so much that there is a lot of difference in the way it looks but I always find nice specimens. My main areas of interest are the gold panning areas around the Badger creek area. Our cabin is real close to this so I am looking for anyone who is farmiliar with this place. I will be taking my daughter to see the mountains(the really big ones) for the first time. Can't wait. Thanks for any help. Kevin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 7 17:01:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Don H) Date: Fri May 7 16:01:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Larger Blades in smaller saws References: Message-ID: <409C1595.5F8F5579@att.net> Rocknlight@aol.com wrote: > > I would not know what the pros and cons are for installing a 12" blade in a > 10" saw enclosure.. > > Good Luck and let us all know Well how about this . . . I called Lortone, they didn't mind the idea at all. In fact the first thing they said was "it all depends on the clearance." Cool. So I checked the top clearance; at least an inch. Good. (remember that adding 2" to the diameter only adds an inch to the radius). However, when I put on a glove and stuck my hand into the sump, I could only feel a marginal clearance between the blade and the bottom. Bad. However, the good news: the sump is bolted on, which means I can find a way to lower it an inch. That means I'll need to keep a lot more oil in the well, but it should be worth it. When slabbing small rough, I always find I'm just about 1/2 to 1 inch short on the blade...arghhhh. Don From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 7 20:42:18 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (E. L. Jones) Date: Fri May 7 19:42:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Larger Blades in smaller saws In-Reply-To: <409C1595.5F8F5579@att.net> References: <409C1595.5F8F5579@att.net> Message-ID: <409C4941.8050401@epix.net> Hello Don, I've been around a very long time (wink) and one of my mentors--Archimedes taught me a trick that I use in my 14 " saw to adjust the oil level. I use ballast stones or rectangular building stones which are about brick sized, in the sump. Placed opposite the blade side, they don't intefere with the feed, but they displace the oil level to just cover the bottom edge of the blade. This works when I change out my 12" junk cutting blade. I add a few more slices and the oil level is back to the bottom of the blade. My other mentor, Murphy taught me that on any given day, there will be at least one rock you want to slab that has a cutting axis which equals the blade radius PLUS 1 inch-- regardless no matter what the blade size is!!! Works for me, Elton Don H wrote: >Rocknlight@aol.com wrote: > > >>I would not know what the pros and cons are for installing a 12" blade in a >>10" saw enclosure.. >> >>Good Luck and let us all know >> >> > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 7 20:45:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Don H) Date: Fri May 7 19:45:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Larger Blades in smaller saws References: <409C1595.5F8F5579@att.net> <409C4941.8050401@epix.net> Message-ID: <409C4A33.5D67A184@att.net> "E. L. Jones" wrote: > > Hello Don, > > I use ballast stones or rectangular building > stones which are about brick sized, in the sump. Placed opposite the > blade side, they don't intefere with the feed, but they displace the oil > level to just cover the bottom edge of the blade. You know what, I forgot about that trick! Thanks for the tip; I hope others pick up on it. Don From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 7 21:20:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri May 7 20:20:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] History of Lapidary Equipment Makers References: <050720041618.5049.409BB6C9000400CF000013B92160376316FF8D9E8B8C989196918D90@att.net> Message-ID: <409C51D5.61E4@Tomaszewski.net> morningstar@att.net wrote: > > > >with a pump I'll bet I could squeeze a 20 incher in. I'd like to hear if > > >other's over-inch their saws. > > I'd like to hear that too. I have a nice Lortone 10-inch enclosure, but the usable edge on that is about > 4.5 inches. I'd like to run a 12" or perhaps 14" blade on it. I can't think of any reason why not; The rotational > veolcity of the rim will be faster, and the motor shouldn't have any more trouble spinning the blade . . . or am I missing something? > > Don > Hi Don! A few fine points to check... Yes, the rim velocity will increase. You need to check the specs on the bigger blade and make sure it is not spinning too fast, which is one way to destroy a blade. You might need to make a pulley change to slow it down (or speed it up) depending on which specific blade you intend to use. You will also be taking a bigger cut which means more of the blade edge will be in contact with rock, and more resistance. There is a chance you might need a bigger motor to keep the blade at speed when taking a full cut. Bigger cuts tend to go slower than little cuts. You might have to slow down your feed (or change the weight if a gravity feed). Overdriving is hard on a blade because it adds unwanted heat. The bigger blade should pick up more of your favorite coolant and make more mist. If the saw has a tabletop (like a trim saw) you might need to enlarge the drain holes back to the basin (and extend the blade slit). Is your feed vise big enough for larger rocks? Does it go back far enough to clear the larger blade when loaded with bigger rock to be cut? Kreigh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 7 21:31:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri May 7 20:31:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] History of Lapidary Equipment Makers In-Reply-To: <409C51D5.61E4@Tomaszewski.net> References: <050720041618.5049.409BB6C9000400CF000013B92160376316FF8D9E8B8C989196918D90@att.net> <409C51D5.61E4@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <6.1.0.3.2.20040507202837.01ff7e80@mail.spiritone.com> Putting too big a blade on a saw is like overclocking a PC, IMO. You need to beef up EVERY part of the saw to handle the much greater load. I don't mess with it as a rule (nor do I overclock my processor lol). If you need a bigger saw it's sometimes much cheaper to find a used one at a garage sale etc... At 08:23 PM 5/7/2004, you wrote: >morningstar@att.net wrote: > > > > > >with a pump I'll bet I could squeeze a 20 incher in. I'd like to > hear if > > > >other's over-inch their saws. > > > > I'd like to hear that too. I have a nice Lortone 10-inch enclosure, > but the usable edge on that is about > > 4.5 inches. I'd like to run a 12" or perhaps 14" blade on it. I can't > think of any reason why not; The rotational > > veolcity of the rim will be faster, and the motor shouldn't have any > more trouble spinning the blade . . . or am I missing something? > > > > Don > > > >Hi Don! > >A few fine points to check... > >Yes, the rim velocity will increase. You need to check the specs on the >bigger blade and make sure it is not spinning too fast, which is one way >to destroy a blade. You might need to make a pulley change to slow it >down (or speed it up) depending on which specific blade you intend to >use. > >You will also be taking a bigger cut which means more of the blade edge >will be in contact with rock, and more resistance. There is a chance you >might need a bigger motor to keep the blade at speed when taking a full >cut. > >Bigger cuts tend to go slower than little cuts. You might have to slow >down your feed (or change the weight if a gravity feed). Overdriving is >hard on a blade because it adds unwanted heat. > >The bigger blade should pick up more of your favorite coolant and make >more mist. If the saw has a tabletop (like a trim saw) you might need to >enlarge the drain holes back to the basin (and extend the blade slit). > >Is your feed vise big enough for larger rocks? Does it go back far >enough to clear the larger blade when loaded with bigger rock to be cut? > >Kreigh Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 7 21:44:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Fri May 7 20:44:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Larger Blades in smaller saws References: <409C1595.5F8F5579@att.net> <409C4941.8050401@epix.net> <409C4A33.5D67A184@att.net> Message-ID: <001b01c434af$a511e0f0$80427a42@cnq3yak2e45rug> You should remember that the oil will become fouled much quicker with less volume therefore you may have to change it more often. Cheers! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don H" To: Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Larger Blades in smaller saws > "E. L. Jones" wrote: > > > > Hello Don, > > > > I use ballast stones or rectangular building > > stones which are about brick sized, in the sump. Placed opposite the > > blade side, they don't intefere with the feed, but they displace the oil > > level to just cover the bottom edge of the blade. > > You know what, I forgot about that trick! Thanks for the tip; I hope > others pick up on it. > > Don > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 7 23:15:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Lanny) Date: Fri May 7 22:15:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] SW WA & NW OR Field Trip List In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.3.2.20040507103539.01f3cd88@mail.spiritone.com> References: <002901c433e0$38305900$82a6490c@pete> <001d01c43444$f6133190$6402a8c0@axel> <6.1.0.3.2.20040507083708.02565dd8@mail.spiritone.com> <6.1.0.3.2.20040507103539.01f3cd88@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <9E5F323E-A0AE-11D8-A38B-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi Tim, With acquired land, it's not some stupid administrative reason, i's a statutory thing. The Weeks Law, which set up the the acquisition of land by the government specifically states that all minerals become leasable or salable. That's what happened with Emerald Creek. (An odd thing is that most of the almandine occurrences I came up with in the Emerald Creek-St. Joe-Clearwater areas just happen to fall on acquired land. Must be a conspiracy.). Sorry you spent time on the claims only to find out it wasn't "regular" public land. Good luck with those other claims. Regards, Lanny On May 7, 2004, at 10:39 AM, Tim Fisher wrote: > We can't claim anything on "acquired lands", for some stupid > administrative reason. I was by yesterday and noticed that someone > (probably the BLM) took my claim markers down. Wasted a day > delineating and marking it for the club 2 years ago...I am going to > mark and claim most of the Prineville C of C digs in the next few > summers...they begged us to claim them again so they don't get shut > down. We already have Fallen Tree thundereggs and HAD Steens Mtn. > thundereggs until it was dropped by the "responsible party" lol. In > the Steens wilderness now... > > At 09:00 AM 5/7/2004, you wrote: From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 8 08:54:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sat May 8 07:54:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] SW WA & NW OR Field Trip List In-Reply-To: <9E5F323E-A0AE-11D8-A38B-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> References: <002901c433e0$38305900$82a6490c@pete> <001d01c43444$f6133190$6402a8c0@axel> <6.1.0.3.2.20040507083708.02565dd8@mail.spiritone.com> <6.1.0.3.2.20040507103539.01f3cd88@mail.spiritone.com> <9E5F323E-A0AE-11D8-A38B-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <6.1.0.3.2.20040508075224.020141f0@mail.spiritone.com> Yes, I know about the Weeks Law, and we tried to lease the claim, that is what caused the potential "administrative nightmare". Sorry I wasn't specific. At 10:14 PM 5/7/2004, you wrote: >Hi Tim, > >With acquired land, it's not some stupid administrative reason, i's a >statutory thing. The Weeks Law, which set up the the acquisition of land >by the government specifically states that all minerals become leasable or >salable. That's what happened with Emerald Creek. (An odd thing is that >most of the almandine occurrences I came up with in the Emerald Creek-St. >Joe-Clearwater areas just happen to fall on acquired land. Must be a >conspiracy.). > >Sorry you spent time on the claims only to find out it wasn't "regular" >public land. > >Good luck with those other claims. > >Regards, > >Lanny > > >On May 7, 2004, at 10:39 AM, Tim Fisher wrote: > >>We can't claim anything on "acquired lands", for some stupid >>administrative reason. I was by yesterday and noticed that someone >>(probably the BLM) took my claim markers down. Wasted a day delineating >>and marking it for the club 2 years ago...I am going to mark and claim >>most of the Prineville C of C digs in the next few summers...they begged >>us to claim them again so they don't get shut down. We already have >>Fallen Tree thundereggs and HAD Steens Mtn. thundereggs until it was >>dropped by the "responsible party" lol. In the Steens wilderness now... >> >>At 09:00 AM 5/7/2004, you wrote: Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 8 09:05:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sat May 8 08:05:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] History of Lapidary Equipment Makers Message-ID: Ok, let me put on my engineer hat for a second. Actually, assuming there is negligible friction between the piece being cut and the side (not cutting edge) of the blade, the only other thing you need to think about is that the horsepower will go up propotionally with the square of the RPM's and a bit more than linearly with the diameter of the blade. In short, at a given RPM the cuttting edge of a 10 inch blade drags twice as many cutting edges per second across the rock as a 5 incher, all other things being equal, and this consumes twice as much energy per second (power) to do so. Also you will presumably be cutting bigger rocks so the frictional surface, which also relates to rate of energy consumption (power), will also increase. Overall you will increase horsepower somewhat more than the ratio of the blade diameters.If your motor is already topped out you may have to either get a new motor or slow the blade down by changing pulleys. I presume the reason for getting a bigger blade is to cut bigger rocks, not cut smaller rocks faster, so you may be more than willling to do the pulley trade off. The thrust on the bearings and belts will also increase because of the greater torque on the bigger blade, but bearings and belts are usually way over designed anyway. Watch for any signs of flexing of the bearing mounts... a really bad sign. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE In a message dated 5/7/2004 11:20:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, Kreigh@Tomaszewski.net writes: morningstar@att.net wrote: > > > >with a pump I'll bet I could squeeze a 20 incher in. I'd like to hear if > > >other's over-inch their saws. > > I'd like to hear that too. I have a nice Lortone 10-inch enclosure, but the usable edge on that is about > 4.5 inches. I'd like to run a 12" or perhaps 14" blade on it. I can't think of any reason why not; The rotational > veolcity of the rim will be faster, and the motor shouldn't have any more trouble spinning the blade . . . or am I missing something? > > Don --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 8 09:58:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Don H) Date: Sat May 8 08:58:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] History of Lapidary Equipment Makers References: Message-ID: <409D0409.33F6BB35@att.net> FOSSILNUT@aol.com wrote: > > Ok, let me put on my engineer hat for a second. > > Actually, assuming there is negligible friction between the piece being cut > and the side (not cutting edge) of the blade, the only other thing you need to > think about is that the horsepower will go up propotionally with the square of > the RPM's and a bit more than linearly with the diameter of the blade. Indeed! Not to belabor the point, but I probably left out a few factors--that's what I get for trying to remember aeronautical engineering calculations from 20 years ago. The rotational velocity increases in some proportion to pi, but also so does the power required to rotate the blade: thus answering the age old brain teaser of "why can't I make a ball reach nearly the speed of light by putting it on an extremely long cord and tying the cord to a hub that will rotate really fast?" (BTW this is a very useful calculation for determining the power required to rotate helicopter blades at a certain speed and also to make sure that the tips of the blades won't break the sound barrier! That much I remember. If only I could find the exact formula in my pile of books). So anyway, I'm now tending toward Tim's suggestion: just look for a used 12" or better yet 14". I also know these should be farily easy to build one's self for less than the cost of buying a new one. I always laugh at the guys who overclock their PCs (good analogy Tim) for a few more MHz but at the cost of using liquid nitrogen, multiple Peltier stacks, or other exotic and byzantine methods, when it would have been easier to buy a faster chip; yet here I am trying to do the same thing. Now that all is said and done, one wonders why the Lortone guy didn't have all this at hand to discuss. Maybe he wanted me to burn out my saw so I'd buy a new one? Thanks all, Dinged-blade Don From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 8 10:32:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Sat May 8 09:32:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] History of Lapidary Equipment Makers In-Reply-To: <409D0409.33F6BB35@att.net> Message-ID: <200405081625.i48GPn7R023306@mxsf20.cluster1.charter.net> Dear Don, However, you were probably right saying that it would be OK to put a 12" blade on a 10" saw if the clearances could be modified, because Lortone probably uses the same drive, motor and bearings for both saws. You could check the specs for both machines. With the same input rpm of the shaft driving a 10" saw as a 12" saw 10" blade 31.4"/ rotation 12"blade 37.68"/rotation 37.68/31.4=120% In other words, the way I calculate it the rotational speed would increase 20% and the 10" machine is probably overengineered to take care of that. The blade would of course be heavier also. Since electric motors come only in certain horsepower ranges, the hp for the 10" and 12" are probably compatible. Tommy Armstrong "Creativity is the marvelous capacity to grasp distinct realities and draw a spark from their juxtaposition." Max Ernst > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Don H > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 12:00 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] History of Lapidary Equipment Makers > > FOSSILNUT@aol.com wrote: > > > > Ok, let me put on my engineer hat for a second. > > > > Actually, assuming there is negligible friction between the piece > > being cut and the side (not cutting edge) of the blade, the > only other > > thing you need to think about is that the horsepower will go up > > propotionally with the square of the RPM's and a bit more > than linearly with the diameter of the blade. > > Indeed! Not to belabor the point, but I probably left out a > few factors--that's what I get for trying to remember > aeronautical engineering calculations from 20 years ago. The > rotational velocity increases in some proportion to pi, but > also so does the power required to rotate the blade: thus > answering the age old brain teaser of "why can't I make a > ball reach nearly the speed of light by putting it on an > extremely long cord and tying the cord to a hub that will > rotate really fast?" (BTW this is a very useful calculation > for determining the power required to rotate helicopter > blades at a certain speed and also to make sure that the tips > of the blades won't break the sound barrier! That much I > remember. If only I could find the exact formula in my pile of > books). > > So anyway, I'm now tending toward Tim's suggestion: just look > for a used 12" or better yet 14". I also know these should > be farily easy to build one's self for less than the cost of > buying a new one. I always laugh at the guys who overclock > their PCs (good analogy Tim) for a few more MHz but at the > cost of using liquid nitrogen, multiple Peltier stacks, or > other exotic and byzantine methods, when it would have been > easier to buy a faster chip; yet here I am trying to do the > same thing. Now that all is said and done, one wonders why > the Lortone guy didn't have all this at hand to discuss. > Maybe he wanted me to burn out my saw so I'd buy a new one? > > > Thanks all, > > Dinged-blade Don > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 8 11:08:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat May 8 10:08:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] History of Lapidary Equipment Makers In-Reply-To: <200405081625.i48GPn7R023306@mxsf20.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: While the circumference increases linearly (and thus the radial velocity) the mass of the blade increases by the square of the radius. Thus a 12 inch blade, assuming the same thickness is 144% heavier than a 10 inch blade, a 14 inch blade would be twice as heavy. If the bigger blades are thicker then this would magnify the changes. You also have to look at moments of inertia to see what the load on the motor would be. Bryan Lex et Libertas -- Semper Vigilo, Paratus, et Fidelis! > > Dear Don, > > However, you were probably right saying that it would be OK to put a 12" > blade on a 10" saw if the clearances could be modified, because Lortone > probably uses the same drive, motor and bearings for both saws. You could > check the specs for both machines. > > With the same input rpm of the shaft driving a 10" saw as a 12" saw > > 10" blade 31.4"/ rotation > 12"blade 37.68"/rotation > > 37.68/31.4=120% > > In other words, the way I calculate it the rotational speed would increase > 20% and the 10" machine is probably overengineered to take care > of that. The > blade would of course be heavier also. Since electric motors come only in > certain horsepower ranges, the hp for the 10" and 12" are probably > compatible. > > Tommy Armstrong > > "Creativity is the marvelous capacity to grasp distinct realities > and draw a > spark from their juxtaposition." > Max Ernst > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Don H > > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 12:00 PM > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] History of Lapidary Equipment Makers > > > > FOSSILNUT@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > Ok, let me put on my engineer hat for a second. > > > > > > Actually, assuming there is negligible friction between the piece > > > being cut and the side (not cutting edge) of the blade, the > > only other > > > thing you need to think about is that the horsepower will go up > > > propotionally with the square of the RPM's and a bit more > > than linearly with the diameter of the blade. > > > > Indeed! Not to belabor the point, but I probably left out a > > few factors--that's what I get for trying to remember > > aeronautical engineering calculations from 20 years ago. The > > rotational velocity increases in some proportion to pi, but > > also so does the power required to rotate the blade: thus > > answering the age old brain teaser of "why can't I make a > > ball reach nearly the speed of light by putting it on an > > extremely long cord and tying the cord to a hub that will > > rotate really fast?" (BTW this is a very useful calculation > > for determining the power required to rotate helicopter > > blades at a certain speed and also to make sure that the tips > > of the blades won't break the sound barrier! That much I > > remember. If only I could find the exact formula in my pile of > > books). > > > > So anyway, I'm now tending toward Tim's suggestion: just look > > for a used 12" or better yet 14". I also know these should > > be farily easy to build one's self for less than the cost of > > buying a new one. I always laugh at the guys who overclock > > their PCs (good analogy Tim) for a few more MHz but at the > > cost of using liquid nitrogen, multiple Peltier stacks, or > > other exotic and byzantine methods, when it would have been > > easier to buy a faster chip; yet here I am trying to do the > > same thing. Now that all is said and done, one wonders why > > the Lortone guy didn't have all this at hand to discuss. > > Maybe he wanted me to burn out my saw so I'd buy a new one? > > > > > > Thanks all, > > > > Dinged-blade Don > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 8 14:11:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Catherine Gaber) Date: Sat May 8 13:11:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] utah locality In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We have a specimen of dodecahedral fluorite from Utah. We can not clearly read the name of the town on the label. It looks like Marylalu, but that doesn't make any sense for the cities in my atlas. Mary is almost certainly correct. Does anyone have any ideas what this might be? thanks, cathy gaber From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 8 14:32:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Sat May 8 13:32:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] utah locality References: Message-ID: <002501c4353b$74ff7da0$7c01a8c0@useree0kkeoj3m> Fluorite from the Deer Trail Mine, Marysvale, Piute County, Utah, is mentioned in an article on Utah collecting in RM 11-12/93, and in a few other articles. Gotta love MinDex. Tim Jokela Jr http://www.element51.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Gaber" To: Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 4:10 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] utah locality > We have a specimen of dodecahedral fluorite from Utah. We can not > clearly read the name of the town on the label. It looks like Marylalu, > but that doesn't make any sense for the cities in my atlas. Mary is > almost certainly correct. Does anyone have any ideas what this might > be? > > thanks, cathy gaber > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 8 15:39:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sat May 8 14:39:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] utah locality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040508213817.5ACDDEAAB86@delivery.infowest.com> Cathy, that's probably Marysvale. They do have fluorites there, along with galena, sphalerite, some copper minerals -- and microfine gold! In a friend's mine. Margaret We have a specimen of dodecahedral fluorite from Utah. We can not clearly read the name of the town on the label. It looks like Marylalu, but that doesn't make any sense for the cities in my atlas. Mary is almost certainly correct. Does anyone have any ideas what this might be? thanks, cathy gaber _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 8 15:40:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sat May 8 14:40:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] utah locality In-Reply-To: <002501c4353b$74ff7da0$7c01a8c0@useree0kkeoj3m> Message-ID: <20040508213935.5E827EA9A3D@delivery.infowest.com> Right! That's the mine I was talking about in the answer I just sent a minute ago. Margaret Fluorite from the Deer Trail Mine, Marysvale, Piute County, Utah, is mentioned in an article on Utah collecting in RM 11-12/93, and in a few other articles. Gotta love MinDex. Tim Jokela Jr http://www.element51.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Gaber" To: Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 4:10 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] utah locality > We have a specimen of dodecahedral fluorite from Utah. We can not > clearly read the name of the town on the label. It looks like Marylalu, > but that doesn't make any sense for the cities in my atlas. Mary is > almost certainly correct. Does anyone have any ideas what this might > be? > > thanks, cathy gaber > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 8 16:58:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Italian Minerals) Date: Sat May 8 15:58:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD - May updates Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.0.20040509004950.021729e8@popmail.libero.it> Hi there ! new rocks just updated on www.italianminerals.com !!! Nice spessartine garnets from China at very nice prices .... and the famous PAESINA STONE from Florence ! http://www.italianminerals.com/ASIA/china-garnet.html Erythrite, gold and more at : http://www.italianminerals.com/whatsnew-12.html Visit us at: www.italianminerals.com In case you want to have fun bidding on interesting specimens at low starting bids, visit our auctions on Ebay: http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&userid=italianminerals&sort=3&rows=25&since=-1&rd=1 Have fun with our rocks ! Regards, ItalianMinerals.com ============================== Quality minerals from Italy and worldwide Italian Minerals http://www.italianminerals.com ============================== --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 8 17:23:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sat May 8 16:23:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Arizona fire agate & wood In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.3.2.20040508075224.020141f0@mail.spiritone.com> References: <002901c433e0$38305900$82a6490c@pete> <001d01c43444$f6133190$6402a8c0@axel> <6.1.0.3.2.20040507083708.02565dd8@mail.spiritone.com> <6.1.0.3.2.20040507103539.01f3cd88@mail.spiritone.com> <9E5F323E-A0AE-11D8-A38B-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.1.0.3.2.20040508075224.020141f0@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <6.1.0.3.2.20040508161006.020326e8@mail.spiritone.com> I just got back from AZ, I have a new supply of fire agate for $0.25/ounce on sale for a limited time. Nice reds, greens, some purples showing. Most pieces should have fire as I can recognize the best sard now lol. I will hand pick pieces that show fire for the regular price of 50 cents/oz. Also got some choice petrified forest rainbow wood (not from the park!) mostly 5-10 lb. chunks, $2.50/lb., very nice colors and less fracturing that usual. Also picked up a bucket of Blue Mtn. picture jasper pieces, $8.00/lb. It's mostly thin seams and tumbling pieces but shows good pattern. Some cool moss/flower agate amygdules in there too, I guess they come out with the picture jasper. Anyway it's all on my lapidary materials link below. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 8 18:44:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sat May 8 17:44:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] History of Lapidary Equipment Makers Message-ID: <156.34817bd2.2dced8c4@aol.com> Assuming that the blade comes up to speed before the cut starts, how does the mass of the blade affect the power demand? In a message dated 5/8/2004 10:08:56 AM Pacific Standard Time, jbryankramer@msn.com writes: > Thus a 12 inch > blade, assuming the same thickness is 144% heavier than a 10 inch blade, a > 14 inch blade would be twice as heavy. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 8 19:12:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat May 8 18:12:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] History of Lapidary Equipment Makers In-Reply-To: <156.34817bd2.2dced8c4@aol.com> Message-ID: As you make the cut the blade slows down and the motor tries to accelerate it back to speed, the more mass the more energy that takes. Its been a long time since my dynamics class tho, so I could be wrong. The Kinetic Energy of a rotating disk is: KE = 1/2 I*(rho)squared where I = The Mass Moment of Inertia which is directly related to the mass for a disk I = 1/2m(R) squared and rho is the angular velocity in rads/sec as mass goes up the Kinetic Energy increases and that energy has to come from the motor. Bryan Lex et Libertas -- Semper Vigilo, Paratus, et Fidelis! > > Assuming that the blade comes up to speed before the cut starts, > how does the > mass of the blade affect the power demand? > > In a message dated 5/8/2004 10:08:56 AM Pacific Standard Time, > jbryankramer@msn.com writes: > > > Thus a 12 inch > > blade, assuming the same thickness is 144% heavier than a 10 > inch blade, a > > 14 inch blade would be twice as heavy. > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 8 21:32:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Brian Doll) Date: Sat May 8 20:32:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Estate sale! Message-ID: Hi All: If you live in Washington, there is an estate sale going on that is well worth looking at. I went there today, and it is a high end mineral collection for sale. I purchased a flat of minerals of many varietys (that I will need help identifying!) for $40. They had an entire room that looked like a museum showcase! You can find the address in the Tacoma News Tribune - the place is located in Dash Pointe. Just thought I would pass it along to any Washintonians who want to find some good deals. Brian _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 9 08:55:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Richard Sittinger) Date: Sun May 9 07:55:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens olivine? Message-ID: <001b01c435d5$52cb0700$2dfccd18@D1J5D241> Hello All, One of our Club members is looking for a source of olivine from the Mt. = St. Helens eruption. Anyone have a good source they would like to = recommend? Thanks in advance. Richard Sittinger Mineral of the Month Club 1770 Orville Ave Cambria, CA 93428 805-927-2223 Richard@mineralofthemonthclub.org www.mineralofthemonthclub.org --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 9 08:56:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Richard Sittinger) Date: Sun May 9 07:56:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bookend Maker in Bay area Message-ID: <002501c435d5$60854770$2dfccd18@D1J5D241> Hello All, A customer is asking for a recommendation: someone to make bookends for = her out of large jasper chunks she has at her home. She lives in the San = Francisco, Ca, area. Anyone have a good recommendation? Thanks in advance! Richard Sittinger Mineral of the Month Club 1770 Orville Ave Cambria, CA 93428 805-927-2223 Richard@mineralofthemonthclub.org www.mineralofthemonthclub.org --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 9 09:54:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sun May 9 08:54:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] History of Lapidary Equipment Makers Message-ID: <158.347c30b0.2dcfade9@aol.com> Bryan: Your equations are correct. Of course power would be the rate of change of kinetic energy with restpect to time, the first derivitve of w2r.. unfortunately I forget my calculus in cylindrical coordinates. However, in a practical sense, the power required to speed up the blade is usually negligible, compared to the energy expended in the actual cutting. That is why the blade comes up to speed in a second or 3. Cutting is like the work done dragging a box along a flat surface, friction. The faster you need to drag it the more power is required because you are consuming more work in a given time. Make the box heavier and the work increases in proportion to the weight. Now consider the blade. A faster tip speed means the "box" (in this case the cutting edge of the blade in contact with the rock) is being "dragged" faster, in proportion to the diameter ratios of the blade. Cutting a bigger rock, while using more force to do so is analagous to "dragging a bigger box", which will also increase drag, hence power demand. The blade slows down on cutting until the rate of drag matches the power available or until the blade stops. Unfortunatley most motors we would use for lapidary purposes lose power output as they slow down and so they go into a stall. Changing the pulleys will slow the blade tip back down to the point that there is enough power available.Alternately cutting with a very slow blade advance or much lighter pressure allows the diamonds to do all the work. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE In a message dated 5/8/2004 9:12:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbryankramer@msn.com writes: As you make the cut the blade slows down and the motor tries to accelerate it back to speed, the more mass the more energy that takes. Its been a long time since my dynamics class tho, so I could be wrong. The Kinetic Energy of a rotating disk is: KE = 1/2 I*(rho)squared where I = The Mass Moment of Inertia which is directly related to the mass for a disk I = 1/2m(R) squared and rho is the angular velocity in rads/sec as mass goes up the Kinetic Energy increases and that energy has to come from the motor. Bryan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 9 10:55:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (John Teague) Date: Sun May 9 09:55:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Atlanta, Georgia show this weekend Message-ID: <4099B70C.8D79A91F@icx.net> Greetings! I would like to remind members of the list about the Georgia Mineral Society's 36th Annual Gem, Mineral, Jewelry, and Fossil Show this weekend in Atlanta, Georgia. My booth is hard to miss as I have UT orange table coverings! I will have several items from the Tucson shows as well as the high pressure water guns for cleaning minerals and fossils (at a GREAT price!). Stop by and see what's new! Dates: Saturday and Sunday, May 7-9, 2004 Hours: Friday - 10:00 am - 6:00 pm Saturday - 10:00 am - 6:00 pm Sunday - 11:00 am - 5:00 pm Location: The Cobb County Civic Center 548 So. Marietta Parkway and Fairground St., Marietta, GA More information and directions can be found at: http://www.gamineral.org/may-show.htm Hope to see you there! Stop by and say "HI!" and introduce yourself. Maybe you'll even see something I have that you can't live without. John Teague Volunteer Gems Knoxville, Tennessee http://www.VolunteerGems.com From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 9 12:45:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Sun May 9 11:45:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] History of Lapidary Equipment Makers References: <158.347c30b0.2dcfade9@aol.com> Message-ID: <001f01c435f5$ad7b86f0$7c01a8c0@useree0kkeoj3m> snip--------------- The Kinetic Energy of a rotating disk is: KE = 1/2 I*(rho)squared where I = The Mass Moment of Inertia which is directly related to the mass for a disk I = 1/2m(R) squared and rho is the angular velocity in rads/sec, as mass goes up the Kinetic Energy increases and that energy has to come from the motor. snip--------------- Hey guys, I think you're dumbing this topic down a little too much. Like Stephen Hawkings infamous book (the one purchased in record numbers, and unread in equally record numbers) this whole discussion is getting too simplified to keep anybody's attention. Can somebody provide some more complex mathematical equations, properly referenced? The more the merrier! Scanning and emailing entire university level physics textbooks to the list would be perfect; that'd really get the ball rolling. Many thanks. Tim "Math Sucks!" Jokela Jr tjokela@execulink.com http://www.element51.com http://www.ontariominerals.com http://www.godIhatemath.com http://www.yesI'mjoking.com http://www.thoughIreallydohatemath.com From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 9 13:05:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun May 9 12:05:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] History of Lapidary Equipment Makers In-Reply-To: <001f01c435f5$ad7b86f0$7c01a8c0@useree0kkeoj3m> Message-ID: LOL! OK I'll cease and desist. It comes from engineering school I guess. Bryan Lex et Libertas -- Semper Vigilo, Paratus, et Fidelis! > > snip--------------- > The Kinetic Energy of a rotating disk is: KE = 1/2 I*(rho)squared > where I = > The Mass Moment of Inertia which is directly related to the mass > for a disk > I = 1/2m(R) squared and rho is the angular velocity in rads/sec, as mass > goes up the Kinetic Energy increases and that energy has to come from the > motor. > snip--------------- > > > Hey guys, I think you're dumbing this topic down a little too much. > > Like Stephen Hawkings infamous book (the one purchased in record numbers, > and unread in equally record numbers) this whole discussion is getting too > simplified to keep anybody's attention. > > Can somebody provide some more complex mathematical equations, properly > referenced? The more the merrier! > > Scanning and emailing entire university level physics textbooks > to the list > would be perfect; that'd really get the ball rolling. > > Many thanks. > > Tim "Math Sucks!" Jokela Jr > tjokela@execulink.com > http://www.element51.com > http://www.ontariominerals.com > http://www.godIhatemath.com > http://www.yesI'mjoking.com > http://www.thoughIreallydohatemath.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 9 13:40:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sun May 9 12:40:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens olivine? References: <001b01c435d5$52cb0700$2dfccd18@D1J5D241> Message-ID: <001b01c435fd$90c14600$82a5490c@pete> I doubt there is any. Why should they think there is? Not every lava or volcanic product contains olivine. cheers, Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Sittinger" To: Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 8:52 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens olivine? Hello All, One of our Club members is looking for a source of olivine from the Mt. St. Helens eruption. Anyone have a good source they would like to recommend? Thanks in advance. Richard Sittinger Mineral of the Month Club 1770 Orville Ave Cambria, CA 93428 805-927-2223 Richard@mineralofthemonthclub.org www.mineralofthemonthclub.org --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 9 13:43:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun May 9 12:43:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens olivine? In-Reply-To: <001b01c435fd$90c14600$82a5490c@pete> References: <001b01c435d5$52cb0700$2dfccd18@D1J5D241> <001b01c435fd$90c14600$82a5490c@pete> Message-ID: <6.1.0.3.2.20040509124201.0204e710@mail.spiritone.com> I think they mean the green glass, which has been discussed ad nauseam recently and is available in the list archives... At 12:41 PM 5/9/2004, you wrote: >I doubt there is any. Why should they think there is? Not every lava or >volcanic product contains olivine. > >cheers, Pete > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Richard Sittinger" >To: >Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 8:52 AM >Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens olivine? > > >Hello All, > >One of our Club members is looking for a source of olivine from the Mt. St. >Helens eruption. Anyone have a good source they would like to recommend? > >Thanks in advance. > >Richard Sittinger > >Mineral of the Month Club >1770 Orville Ave >Cambria, CA 93428 >805-927-2223 >Richard@mineralofthemonthclub.org >www.mineralofthemonthclub.org Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 9 13:58:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun May 9 12:58:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens olivine? In-Reply-To: <001b01c435fd$90c14600$82a5490c@pete> References: <001b01c435d5$52cb0700$2dfccd18@D1J5D241> <001b01c435fd$90c14600$82a5490c@pete> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20040509101001.02eaa7d0@mail.aloha.net> I was just wondering the same thing. We have olivine in lava flows in Hawaii, but our eruptions are completely different from that of St. Helens. I'm no geologist, but the explosive nature of the St. Helens eruption (Pyroclastic and Plinian are terms I seem to recall being used at the time) would leave any olivine that might have been there, in the form of fine dust, would it not? Aloha, Kitty >I doubt there is any. Why should they think there is? Not every lava or >volcanic product contains olivine. > >cheers, Pete > > > > > Message-ID: on 5/9/04 3:21 PM, Kitty & Bill Heacox at kahako@aloha.net wrote: Some pyroclastic rocks can have large fragments in them. But you are right that the fine ash that got dispersed a distance from the volcano wouldn't likely show much of significant size. However the eruption also produced some dome-forming lavas which could have larger crystals. These domes are in the St. Helen's caldera, and are not generally accessible, but I really doubt a shred of olivine is to be found there. BTW growing lava domes during an eruptive episode are pretty risky places to be just in general. Bye- Dr. Bill > I was just wondering the same thing. We have olivine in lava flows in > Hawaii, but our eruptions are completely different from that of St. > Helens. I'm no geologist, but the explosive nature of the St. Helens > eruption (Pyroclastic and Plinian are terms I seem to recall being used at > the time) would leave any olivine that might have been there, in the form > of fine dust, would it not? > > Aloha, Kitty > > >> I doubt there is any. Why should they think there is? Not every lava or >> volcanic product contains olivine. >> >> cheers, Pete >> >> >> > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 9 14:29:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sun May 9 13:29:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bookend Maker in Bay area Message-ID: In a message dated 5/9/04 7:56:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Richard@Mineralofthemonthclub.org writes: A customer is asking for a recommendation: someone to make bookends for her out of large jasper chunks she has at her home. She lives in the San Francisco, Ca, area. Anyone have a good recommendation? ] Tom's Rockshop in Chico, CA does very good custom work. Call (530) 894-3010 Shipping rock is very expensive so closer would be better. Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 9 14:58:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sun May 9 13:58:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens olivine? References: <001b01c435d5$52cb0700$2dfccd18@D1J5D241> <001b01c435fd$90c14600$82a5490c@pete> <6.0.3.0.0.20040509101001.02eaa7d0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <001601c43608$8170ad20$21a6490c@pete> Actually, even explosive eruptions would be unlikely to break up the original crystals (if there were any there); the ash that blasted out and showered down, would probably contain individual grains of whatever crystals were in the magma. Some volcanic ash deposits do produce "crystal-rich tuffs", where the original magma was simply full of crystals from partial cooling before it erupted. But the Mt. St. Helens lava--the fresh lava that was erupted & formed the dome--was dacite, as I recall, and dacite is silica-rich enough, that it's very unlikely to contain any olivine. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens olivine? > I was just wondering the same thing. We have olivine in lava flows in > Hawaii, but our eruptions are completely different from that of St. > Helens. I'm no geologist, but the explosive nature of the St. Helens > eruption (Pyroclastic and Plinian are terms I seem to recall being used at > the time) would leave any olivine that might have been there, in the form > of fine dust, would it not? > > Aloha, Kitty > > > >I doubt there is any. Why should they think there is? Not every lava or > >volcanic product contains olivine. > > > >cheers, Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 9 15:22:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sun May 9 14:22:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens olivine? In-Reply-To: <001601c43608$8170ad20$21a6490c@pete> Message-ID: Tolbachik volcano on Kamchatka produced famous 'crystalline lapilli'. These are ~3cm plagioclase crystals looking like desert rose gypsum. These crystals are huge given that they come from an explosive eruption too. As Pete said, it all depends on what is in the magma before the eruption. See http://maurice.strahlen.org/Kamchatka/eruptive_rocks.htm for my lapilli I'm no volcanologist, but I thought that crystals in the magma is one of the ingredients of explosive eruptions. Gasses dissolved in the magma form little bubbles easier at the surface of crystals, causing a sudden increase in volume. The viscosity and gas concentration of the magma are other indredients. Cheers, Maurice -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Peter J. Modreski Sent: 09 May 2004 22:59 To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens olivine? Actually, even explosive eruptions would be unlikely to break up the original crystals (if there were any there); the ash that blasted out and showered down, would probably contain individual grains of whatever crystals were in the magma. Some volcanic ash deposits do produce "crystal-rich tuffs", where the original magma was simply full of crystals from partial cooling before it erupted. But the Mt. St. Helens lava--the fresh lava that was erupted & formed the dome--was dacite, as I recall, and dacite is silica-rich enough, that it's very unlikely to contain any olivine. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens olivine? > I was just wondering the same thing. We have olivine in lava flows in > Hawaii, but our eruptions are completely different from that of St. > Helens. I'm no geologist, but the explosive nature of the St. Helens > eruption (Pyroclastic and Plinian are terms I seem to recall being used at > the time) would leave any olivine that might have been there, in the form > of fine dust, would it not? > > Aloha, Kitty > > > >I doubt there is any. Why should they think there is? Not every lava or > >volcanic product contains olivine. > > > >cheers, Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 10 06:02:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (ItalianMinerals) Date: Mon May 10 05:02:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD - specimen update Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20040510140034.025d41c0@popmail.libero.it> Hi there ! An other interesting group of items is on show on Ebay ! There are several nice crystallized items such as beryls from Pakistan, vesuvianite from the type locality Vesuvio, Italy, spessartine from China, azurite from Marocco, celestine from Marocco, rubellite from Madagascar, celestine from Spain, erythrite from Marocco, franklinite from USA. To see Ebay auctions goto: http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=italianminerals&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=50 In case you want to visit our web site goto: www.italianminerals.com Several new specimens have been updated in these last 48 hours ! Visit the latest update : http://www.italianminerals.com/whatsnew-12.html Paesina stone from Florence, Italy: http://www.italianminerals.com/ITALY/Paesina.htm Spessartine from China : http://www.italianminerals.com/ASIA/china-garnet.html Thanks for your support, Alessandro (ItalianMinerals.com) ===================== Visit us at: http://www.ItalianMinerals.com for quality minerals !! Check our auctions on Ebay at: http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=italianminerals ===================== From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 10 06:24:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Horst Windisch) Date: Mon May 10 05:24:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz from the Himalays Message-ID: <000701c43683$91f53b40$0e3e27c4@horstspc> Hi list, Recently a lot of exquisite quartz crystals have appeared on the market, coming from the Himalayas. The locality is being given as "somewhere near the border between Tibet and India". Does anybody have a more concise description of this locality? Horst From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 10 10:42:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Richard Sittinger) Date: Mon May 10 09:42:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Australian Rhyolite Message-ID: <003b01c436ac$db9d2400$2dfccd18@D1J5D241> Hello All, There is a pretty rhyolite called "Rain Forest Jasper" coming from = Australia, mostly green with clear zones of chalcedony. The chalcedony = fluoresces green under shortwave UV light, and I'm wondering if anyone = knows for a fact what the activator is? Or of anyone who tests for = activators?=20 Thanks in advance! Richard Sittinger Mineral of the Month Club 1770 Orville Ave Cambria, CA 93428 805-927-2223 Richard@mineralofthemonthclub.org www.mineralofthemonthclub.org --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 10 11:21:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Mon May 10 10:21:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Australian Rhyolite References: <003b01c436ac$db9d2400$2dfccd18@D1J5D241> Message-ID: <004701c436b3$11f0b4d0$6401a8c0@useree0kkeoj3m> A partial answer, from Robbins "Fluorescence", p.276: Chalcedony roses from AZ, NV, etc., fluoresce green due to trace uranium. Chalcedony and agate can be found with almost any fluorescent color, from blue, green, orange, to white. Dunno if anybody's looked any deeper into it. Not sure if EDS is sensitive enough to pick up trace activators, but you could try, for about $50 a pop. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr tjokela@execulink.com http://www.element51.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Sittinger" To: Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 12:35 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Australian Rhyolite Hello All, There is a pretty rhyolite called "Rain Forest Jasper" coming from Australia, mostly green with clear zones of chalcedony. The chalcedony fluoresces green under shortwave UV light, and I'm wondering if anyone knows for a fact what the activator is? Or of anyone who tests for activators? Thanks in advance! Richard Sittinger Mineral of the Month Club 1770 Orville Ave Cambria, CA 93428 805-927-2223 Richard@mineralofthemonthclub.org www.mineralofthemonthclub.org --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 10 13:00:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon May 10 12:00:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Tibetan Quartz Crystals Message-ID: <137.2ea55a23.2dd12b08@aol.com> I have been told by dealers who sell Tibetan Quartz crystals is that they come from "Riazza Tibet". I have not been able to locate that location on any map. T. McGinnis --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 10 13:46:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Richard Sittinger) Date: Mon May 10 12:46:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens olivine? References: <001b01c435d5$52cb0700$2dfccd18@D1J5D241> <001b01c435fd$90c14600$82a5490c@pete> <6.0.3.0.0.20040509101001.02eaa7d0@mail.aloha.net> <001601c43608$8170ad20$21a6490c@pete> Message-ID: <008001c436c7$29dba9b0$2dfccd18@D1J5D241> Hello All, Yes, you're right-- he's looking for a source of the green glass made from Mt St Helen's dust. Anyone know of a good source? Thanks! Richard Sittinger Mineral of the Month Club From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 10 15:17:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Gerry Koshman) Date: Mon May 10 14:17:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounding weekend Message-ID: <000201c436d4$2f3055c0$6ee2a3ce@userq8p3k9g7xy> Good morning, This is a great weekend opportunity : Rockhound total immersion weekend August 7 & 8, 2004 Spend the whole weekend, working on rocks, talking about rocks watching demonstrations of cutting, polishing, caving rocks and just about anything else that has to do with rocks. Location: At the Gazebo in Shell Lake Saskatchewan (about one hour and 20 minutes north of Saskatoon) What's Happening? Rockhounds from all over will be demonstrating their art for the entire weekend. Participants usually demonstrate all day Saturday and until about 2:00 Sunday. At that time an auction is held of donated materials to help offset the cost of the building ($75.00). If not enough money is raised the fee is waived. Types of demos: -Cabbing -Carving -Fossil Preparation -Faceting -Flint Knapping -Wire Wrapping -Silversmithing -Displays Who can Come: This event is open to the public as well as anyone that has an interest in the hobby or would just like to come and watch Facilities: The Gazebo is a six-sided, open sided building with plenty of electrical outlets. There are bathroom facilities as well as showers as well as a camping area. We normally set up our equipment Friday night and sleep right around the building in our vehicles, good for late night story telling as well as security for the equipment . Costs: Completely free to everyone although we appreciate a donation to the auction to help offset costs We had an absolute ball last year and hated to go home. If anyone needs more info or would like to participate please contact me by email: gkoshman @ sasktel.net --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 10 17:20:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon May 10 16:20:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Australian Rhyolite Message-ID: <051020042319.22875.40A00DE7000195ED0000595B2160376316FF96948C9A8D9B909295@att.net> Richard, Any agate or chalcedony or common massive opal that fluoresces green, is just about guaranteed to by caused by uranium (uranyl ion, UO2++) as the activator. I don't thin there is anything else known, that causes green fluorescence in those minerals. "You can depend on it!" Pete > Hello All, > > There is a pretty rhyolite called "Rain Forest Jasper" coming from Australia, > mostly green with clear zones of chalcedony. The chalcedony fluoresces green > under shortwave UV light, and I'm wondering if anyone knows for a fact what the > activator is? Or of anyone who tests for activators? > > Thanks in advance! > > Richard Sittinger > > > Mineral of the Month Club > 1770 Orville Ave > Cambria, CA 93428 > 805-927-2223 > Richard@mineralofthemonthclub.org > www.mineralofthemonthclub.org > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 10 20:14:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (magnet) Date: Mon May 10 19:14:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Australian Rhyolite Message-ID: <20040511021339.14748.qmail@webmachine101.com> Hi Richard Where abouts in Australia? If you can let me know the locality, I will find out for you what is likely (eg: uranium). Regards Steve -------Original Message------- > From: > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Australian Rhyolite > Sent: 10 May 2004 13:19:03 > > Richard, > > Any agate or chalcedony or common massive opal that fluoresces green, is just about guaranteed to by caused by uranium (uranyl ion, UO2++) as the activator.  I don't thin there is anything else known, that causes green fluorescence in those minerals.  "You can depend on it!" > > Pete > > > > Hello All, > > > > There is a pretty rhyolite called "Rain Forest Jasper" coming from Australia, > > mostly green with clear zones of chalcedony. The chalcedony fluoresces green > > under shortwave UV light, and I'm wondering if anyone knows for a fact what the > > activator is? Or of anyone who tests for activators? > > > > Thanks in advance! > > > > Richard Sittinger --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 11 00:49:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Richard Sittinger) Date: Mon May 10 23:49:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Australian Rhyolite References: <20040511021339.14748.qmail@webmachine101.com> Message-ID: <000d01c43723$cfffd710$2dfccd18@D1J5D241> Hello Steve, The locality I have is Mt Hay, Queensland, Australia. Thanks for your assistance. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "magnet" To: Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Australian Rhyolite Hi Richard Where abouts in Australia? If you can let me know the locality, I will find out for you what is likely (eg: uranium). Regards Steve -------Original Message------- > From: > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Australian Rhyolite > Sent: 10 May 2004 13:19:03 > > Richard, > > Any agate or chalcedony or common massive opal that fluoresces green, is just about guaranteed to by caused by uranium (uranyl ion, UO2++) as the activator. I don't thin there is anything else known, that causes green fluorescence in those minerals. "You can depend on it!" > > Pete > > > > Hello All, > > > > There is a pretty rhyolite called "Rain Forest Jasper" coming from Australia, > > mostly green with clear zones of chalcedony. The chalcedony fluoresces green > > under shortwave UV light, and I'm wondering if anyone knows for a fact what the > > activator is? Or of anyone who tests for activators? > > > > Thanks in advance! > > > > Richard Sittinger --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 11 04:19:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Theo and Marloes) Date: Tue May 11 03:19:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] rough cubic zirconia Message-ID: <012a01c43741$482bd2d0$0cd0828a@Mel> Hi rockhounders, Does anyone out there know where I can get about half a kilo of rough = cubic zirconia, preferably in a variety of colours. Thanks for your help = and all the fun that we have on this list. Please send any replies also = to my work email adress t.kloprogge@qut.edu.au. Cheers from down under Theo Marloes and Theo Kloprogge 29 Fairway Outlook Arana Hills Qld 4054 Australia --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 11 10:02:37 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Ted) Date: Tue May 11 09:02:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cats eye Tourmaline Message-ID: <000d01c43758$cb44ccf0$0200a8c0@gametime> Hans Durstling: Great article in the May 2004 Lapidary Journal! Kudos to Carol also! For everyone else: Hans authored an article on identifying, aligning, dopping and cutting cats eye tourmaline cabochons. Ted Kowalski --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) application/ms-tnef --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 11 19:58:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Keith Q Hayes) Date: Tue May 11 18:58:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] trip to NM, etc. Message-ID: The next couple weeks I will be driving to NM from Michigan. Any great tips for rockshops or collecting along the way? I plan to head from KC through Denver, with possible detour north to visit New Belgium Brewing for a plant tour, then head down to NM. Best Regards, Keith Hayes www.kqminerals.com kqhayes@chartermi.net From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 12 01:59:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed May 12 00:59:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] trip to NM, etc. References: Message-ID: <001401c437f6$ff8e12c0$6402a8c0@axel> Keith, if New Belgian Brewing is anything like Belgian brewing in Belgium, they will offer you the opportunity to taste their products. Don't miss that... you'll see NM twice for the same price and people there will like you more because of the beatific smile you 'll have on your face. Enjoy Axel (from Belgium , Doh...;-))) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Q Hayes" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 3:57 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] trip to NM, etc. > The next couple weeks I will be driving to NM from Michigan. Any great tips > for rockshops or collecting along the way? I plan to head from KC through > Denver, with possible detour north to visit New Belgium Brewing for a plant > tour, then head down to NM. > > Best Regards, > > Keith Hayes > www.kqminerals.com > kqhayes@chartermi.net > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 12 06:02:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (SHM) Date: Wed May 12 05:02:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] rough cubic zirconia In-Reply-To: <012a01c43741$482bd2d0$0cd0828a@Mel> Message-ID: <002701c43818$e2075b40$a8e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Try Greg Lesinski at gslrocks@aol.com. He's had some wonderful CZ from time to time and has an inside contact in the industry. Heavy, though -- shipping this stuff to Down Under will cost the equivalent of a few cases of stubbies. Cheers- Earl -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Theo and Marloes Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 6:18 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] rough cubic zirconia Hi rockhounders, Does anyone out there know where I can get about half a kilo of rough cubic zirconia, preferably in a variety of colours. Thanks for your help and all the fun that we have on this list. Please send any replies also to my work email adress t.kloprogge@qut.edu.au. Cheers from down under Theo Marloes and Theo Kloprogge 29 Fairway Outlook Arana Hills Qld 4054 Australia --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 12 06:17:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (SHM) Date: Wed May 12 05:17:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] trip to NM, etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005e01c4381a$eaa0fa20$a8e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> You might also want to take a tour of the Coors brewery in Golden, a little to the left of Denver. Though I am not ecstatic about their beer (basically it's fizzy water with a beer stain in it), it DOES taste pretty good on a hot day, right out of a chilled vat, and the tour itself is quite pleasant. For REAL beer, of course, New Belgium Brewery, oh very yes. Don't miss it. As they say, it's a vacation in a can. Minerals: If you are content to look rather than acquire, please visit the Denver Museum of Natural History. Despite some internal efforts at undoing some of the progress they've made in the past, the mineral displays are first-rate, and there are some VERY important specimens in there. Visit the museum and learn, and save your money for the NBB. Cheers- Earl -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Keith Q Hayes Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 9:57 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] trip to NM, etc. The next couple weeks I will be driving to NM from Michigan. Any great tips for rockshops or collecting along the way? I plan to head from KC through Denver, with possible detour north to visit New Belgium Brewing for a plant tour, then head down to NM. Best Regards, Keith Hayes www.kqminerals.com kqhayes@chartermi.net _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 12 06:25:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Wed May 12 05:25:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] trip to NM, etc. References: <005e01c4381a$eaa0fa20$a8e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <001601c4381c$5b5d56e0$8aa6490c@pete> Keith, the Colorado School of Mines geology museum has been moved & set up in a fine new building, with very good new mineral exhibits; be sure to stop & take a look at it too, if you have time. I can't think offhand of any superb new mineral localities worth visiting, that have popped up in the last few years, other than what has always been around. cheers, Pete From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 12 09:19:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Wed May 12 08:19:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds in Japan (fwd) Message-ID: Hi All... This chap came across my pictures of my visit to the mineral show in Japan back in '02. I really don't have any contacts over there any more and I said I'd pop his note into our group. I don't know this guy at all...I'm just forwarding a note. Anywho, please contact him directly OFF LIST. Thanks. GcB > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: syed mustafain kazmi [mailto:syed104@hotmail.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 8:58 AM > > To: gbrown@catspaw-minerals.com > > Subject: please help > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I came across your web site when i was looking for > information about > mineral shows in japan for my brother > who lives in pakistan, > he is running > gemsstone and > moneral business. He is very intrested to visit > japanees > shows > this year. > > I can't anything on net about > japanees shows could you please > help me. I > need contact > details or web adress for japnees mineral shows in japan. > > > > ragards, > sid > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 12 13:57:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Keith Q Hayes) Date: Wed May 12 12:57:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] trip to NM, etc. In-Reply-To: <001401c437f6$ff8e12c0$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: Axel, Since this is important information for everyone that visits the Denver show in september, I will expand a bit. New Belgium Brewing was started by a gentleman that went to Belgium for a year or so and visited every brewery he could. He rode around on a mountain bike, which adorns the label of the famous Fat Tire Amber Ale. He returned to the US and started making beers in the Belgian tradition. This beer is served in the lounge of the main hotel for the denver show. Wonderful stuff. Drink some this September when you go to the show! Best Regards, Keith Hayes www.kqminerals.com kqhayes@chartermi.net 3705 Fuller Drive Midland, MI 48642 -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 3:59 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] trip to NM, etc. Keith, if New Belgian Brewing is anything like Belgian brewing in Belgium, they will offer you the opportunity to taste their products. Don't miss that... you'll see NM twice for the same price and people there will like you more because of the beatific smile you 'll have on your face. Enjoy Axel (from Belgium , Doh...;-))) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Q Hayes" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 3:57 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] trip to NM, etc. > The next couple weeks I will be driving to NM from Michigan. Any great tips > for rockshops or collecting along the way? I plan to head from KC through > Denver, with possible detour north to visit New Belgium Brewing for a plant > tour, then head down to NM. > > Best Regards, > > Keith Hayes > www.kqminerals.com > kqhayes@chartermi.net > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 12 14:35:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed May 12 13:35:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] trip to NM, etc. References: Message-ID: <000b01c43860$7de87a20$6402a8c0@axel> The man derserves a statue ;-))) Is this beer exported too? You made me curious and thirsty. Wish I could be in Denver in September. Have you ever seen the commercials of "Stella Artois"? The ones where first the French en then the Norwegians claim to be the original brewers of this beer? (The one where the viking says "you'd burn a village or two for less") We just had our anual MKA mineral show in Antwerp... I discovered a new fossilization process: I watched money turn into rocks ;-))) cheers Axel Axel Emmermann Lobbesplein 12 B-2640 MORTSEL 03 295.35.54 Website: http://users.pandora.be/axel.emmerman/home/index.htm Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen / Mineralogical Society of Antwerp Werkgroepen: Fluorescentie & Technische Realisaties Website Nederl. : http://www.minerant.org/MKA/index.html Engels : http://www.minerant.org/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Q Hayes" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 9:56 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] trip to NM, etc. > Axel, Since this is important information for everyone that visits the > Denver show in september, I will expand a bit. New Belgium Brewing was > started by a gentleman that went to Belgium for a year or so and visited > every brewery he could. He rode around on a mountain bike, which adorns the > label of the famous Fat Tire Amber Ale. He returned to the US and started > making beers in the Belgian tradition. > > This beer is served in the lounge of the main hotel for the denver show. > Wonderful stuff. Drink some this September when you go to the show! > > > Best Regards, > > Keith Hayes > www.kqminerals.com > kqhayes@chartermi.net > 3705 Fuller Drive > Midland, MI 48642 > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 3:59 AM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] trip to NM, etc. > > > Keith, > > if New Belgian Brewing is anything like Belgian brewing in Belgium, they > will offer you the opportunity to taste their products. Don't miss that... > you'll see NM twice for the same price and people there will like you more > because of the beatific smile you 'll have on your face. > > Enjoy > > Axel (from Belgium , Doh...;-))) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Keith Q Hayes" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 3:57 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] trip to NM, etc. > > > > The next couple weeks I will be driving to NM from Michigan. Any great > tips > > for rockshops or collecting along the way? I plan to head from KC through > > Denver, with possible detour north to visit New Belgium Brewing for a > plant > > tour, then head down to NM. > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Keith Hayes > > www.kqminerals.com > > kqhayes@chartermi.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 12 17:39:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (john) Date: Wed May 12 16:39:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] trip to NM, etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40A2B1D5.9030809@hal-pc.org> Keith Q Hayes wrote: >The next couple weeks I will be driving to NM from Michigan. Any great tips >for rockshops or collecting along the way? I plan to head from KC through >Denver, with possible detour north to visit New Belgium Brewing for a plant >tour, then head down to NM. > >Best Regards, > >Keith Hayes >www.kqminerals.com >kqhayes@chartermi.net > Don't forget to visit the Mineral Museum at New Mexico Tech in Soccorro. They have THE outstanding exhibit of NM minerals. Also on campus is the bookstore with NM Bureau of Geology & Mineral Resources publications. Also the people who shepherd the museum are usually students or teachers at NM Tech, and they know all the latest on where to go and who to see for collecting. They also sell fine specimans at the museum; reasonable prices and to support the museum itself. All-in-all, the best available "current" source for what is what and all about in NM. john From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 12 17:49:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Wed May 12 16:49:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] trip to NM, etc. In-Reply-To: <001601c4381c$5b5d56e0$8aa6490c@pete> Message-ID: If Keith goes to the Coors tour in Golden, then he'll be within a couple miles of the CSM geology museum. He can kill 2 birds with one stone! :-) Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Peter J. Modreski Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 6:26 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] trip to NM, etc. Keith, the Colorado School of Mines geology museum has been moved & set up in a fine new building, with very good new mineral exhibits; be sure to stop & take a look at it too, if you have time. I can't think offhand of any superb new mineral localities worth visiting, that have popped up in the last few years, other than what has always been around. cheers, Pete _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 12 19:39:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Sherry Pauley) Date: Wed May 12 18:39:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] trip to NM, etc. References: Message-ID: Keith, Sounds like your going to need a designated driver on this trip! Sherry > If Keith goes to the Coors tour in Golden, then he'll be within a couple > miles of the CSM geology museum. He can kill 2 birds with one stone! :-) > > Bob From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 12 19:45:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Gary Brown) Date: Wed May 12 18:45:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] trip to NM, etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200405130144.i4D1ihw5032369@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Of course, Keith, you need to pop up to the grand-daddy of all micro breweries: The Boulder Brewery. They were instrumental in starting up the whole American brew-pub experience. And then... You have the "Rock Bottom Brewery" in Denver. That's the original location, and was founded (if memory serves me right!) by a bunch of re-tread petroleum geologists/geophysicists. (See, I worked rocks into this discussion!). GcB From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 12 21:16:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Joe Davis) Date: Wed May 12 20:16:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] How do you rate the Diamond Pacific "Titan" Message-ID: I am seriously considering buying this combination unit. Does anyone own one? What are the pluses and minuses. Can you put non Diamond Pacific wheels on it? Joe Davis From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 12 22:42:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Wed May 12 21:42:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] trip to NM, etc. In-Reply-To: <200405130144.i4D1ihw5032369@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: Oh, and the Wynkoop Brewery in Denver was founded by a guy named John Hickenlooper, a former exploration geologist and Denver's current mayor. Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Gary Brown Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 7:46 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] trip to NM, etc. Of course, Keith, you need to pop up to the grand-daddy of all micro breweries: The Boulder Brewery. They were instrumental in starting up the whole American brew-pub experience. And then... You have the "Rock Bottom Brewery" in Denver. That's the original location, and was founded (if memory serves me right!) by a bunch of re-tread petroleum geologists/geophysicists. (See, I worked rocks into this discussion!). GcB _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 12 22:54:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Wed May 12 21:54:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] How do you rate the Diamond Pacific "Titan" Message-ID: <92.ad5b873.2dd45942@aol.com> In a message dated 5/12/2004 9:16:41 PM Mountain Standard Time, davisj@earthlink.net writes: I am seriously considering buying this combination unit. Does anyone own one? What are the pluses and minuses. Can you put non Diamond Pacific wheels on it? Joe Davis I have had one for about ten years and find it to be an excellent and reliable tool. Diamond Pacific is good to work with and will help with any problems you may run into. With a lot of use the Nova wheels can wear out fairly quickly so the Titan is not an economical tool for mass production of low end product. The size of the wheels limits the size of material to be worked. I never tried other brand wheels. The last Nova wheels I bought were about $135 each. Frank Frank J. Daniels, publisher Western Colorado Publishing Company 2024 Freedom Court Grand Junction, CO 81503-9522 (970) 242-5255 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 13 05:06:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (magnet) Date: Thu May 13 04:06:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Australian Rhyolite Message-ID: <20040513110557.21283.qmail@webmachine101.com> Hi Richard Have only found out the following so far: G'day Steve, These are two suggestions in regard to the rhyolite. There is a Mount Hays in the Northern Territory, in the Pine Creek region, which is recorded as having both tin and wolfram, two minerals that have been often noted to be in association with uranium in the N.T. - Ref: " Australian Mineral Industry: The Mineral Deposits" by McLeod, 1965. Also in Queensland, a lot of uranium mineralisation is regarded to have a volcanic association, as for example the Eastern Creek Volcanics in the Mount Isa area are host to major uranium deposits. - Ref "Monograph 17" of the Australasian Institute of Mining and Metallurgy. To throw a another problem into the fire is that the minerals that you mention as listed from Mount Hay in Queensland are often associated with uranium mineralisation in the Nullagine area of Western Australia. Hope this helps? Regards NEIL RICHARDS At 09:06 PM 5/12/2004, you wrote: >Hi all > >A post on another list was seeking information as to what element might >cause a green fluorescence in a rhyolite specimen from "Australia". One >response suggested uranium, so I asked for the locality to see if I could >help. The locality then given was Mt Hay, Queensland. > >Uranium seems unlikely to me (with my limited knowledge of the area) as >the occurrence is volcanic and I'm unaware of any uranium minerals in the >vicinity. > >Can anyone confirm or else provide some details of any mineral occurrences >in that area that might cause the colour? > >Or is there a different possible cause? > >The Queensland Mineral Index lists agate, calcite, carnelian, chalcedony, >jasper, kaolin, limonite, lithophyses(??), porcellanite and rock crystal. > >Regards >Steve --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 13 05:18:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Dennis Buffenmyer) Date: Thu May 13 04:18:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] BERKS MINERALOGICAL SOCIETY 36TH ANNUAL SHOW In-Reply-To: <002901c433e0$38305900$82a6490c@pete> References: <002901c433e0$38305900$82a6490c@pete> Message-ID: <40A3597B.8050907@ptd.net> This weekend, May 15 and 16 It is once again time for the B.M.S. 36th annual world of gems and minerals show. Sat. 10-5 Sun 10-4 Over 100 tables of jewelry, minerals, fossils,crystals,gems, cutting material, findings, lapidary supplies, etc. Admission donation is just a buck; students don't pay! Refreshments Available Plenty of Free Parking All Indoors, Air Conditioned, Displays and demonstrations!! Leesport Farmers' Market Banquet Hall Route 61 Leesport Pa 8 miles south of the Rt 61 exit of I-78 6 miles north of Reading More info may also be obtained from berksminer@aol.com Bring a friend!! Take home a memory!! Support the hobby!!! > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 13 05:26:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Keith Q Hayes) Date: Thu May 13 04:26:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] trip to NM, etc. In-Reply-To: <40A2B1D5.9030809@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: Folks, thanks for all the suggestions on rocks (and beer.) Best Regards, Keith Hayes www.kqminerals.com kqhayes@chartermi.net 3705 Fuller Drive Midland, MI 48642 -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of john Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 7:23 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] trip to NM, etc. Keith Q Hayes wrote: >The next couple weeks I will be driving to NM from Michigan. Any great tips >for rockshops or collecting along the way? I plan to head from KC through >Denver, with possible detour north to visit New Belgium Brewing for a plant >tour, then head down to NM. > >Best Regards, > >Keith Hayes >www.kqminerals.com >kqhayes@chartermi.net > Don't forget to visit the Mineral Museum at New Mexico Tech in Soccorro. They have THE outstanding exhibit of NM minerals. Also on campus is the bookstore with NM Bureau of Geology & Mineral Resources publications. Also the people who shepherd the museum are usually students or teachers at NM Tech, and they know all the latest on where to go and who to see for collecting. They also sell fine specimans at the museum; reasonable prices and to support the museum itself. All-in-all, the best available "current" source for what is what and all about in NM. john _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 13 06:03:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (SHM) Date: Thu May 13 05:03:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Australian Rhyolite In-Reply-To: <20040513110557.21283.qmail@webmachine101.com> Message-ID: <000001c438e2$388b15a0$ade4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Good morning Steve, Just a quick note on this statement from an earlier post: > >Uranium seems unlikely to me (with my limited knowledge of the area) as >the occurrence is volcanic and I'm unaware of any uranium minerals in the >vicinity. OK, but it's a little more complex than that. There is a very close association between uranium and rhyolitic volcanic rocks, though in many places the uranium is not present in amounts sufficient to form ore deposits or even macroscopically identifiable uranium minerals. But consider what happens when a magma crystallizes, first to form basalt, then andesite and dacite, and finally rhyolite from the remaining melt: all of the ions that don't readily "fit" into any of the early-crystallizing minerals such as olivine, hornblende, plagioclase, etc. become concentrated in the residual melt. The early minerals remove a lot of iron and magnesium, commonly are lower in silica content than the parent magma, and are anhydrous; thus the residual melt is enriched in silica, water, and a host of ions that don't comfortably fit into the early minerals because they are either highly charged (like U4+ or Zr4+, and many of the rare earth elements) or are the "wrong" size, or both. Reading up on Goldschmidt's rules would help here; they are conceptually simple and explain a lot about element partitioning during magma solidification. Google it; there are some good sites out there. In any event, if a crystallizing magma were left to itself underground, with time a pegmatite might form from the late residual fluids. Pegmatites are renowned for their weird and rare minerals, many of which contain uranium, zirconium, rare earths, etc.--all the things that were "rejected" by the earlier-formed minerals. If instead a late-stage rhyolitic magma gets extruded onto the Earth's surface to crystallize rapidly as a fine-grained rock, it too will be enriched in elements rather similar to those of the pegmatitic suite. Uranium is one of these. Moreover, uranium is readily leached from rhyolitic rocks by groundwater, and so too is silica from volcanic glasses such as the shards in volcanic ash and ignimbrites. The silica is commonly reprecipitated in the form of chalcedony or opal, and generally (almost always, it seems) this chalcedony or opal will fluoresce green due to its slight uranium content. By the way, the uranium is now in the +6 oxidation state due to its being transported by acidic, oxidizing groundwaters. The same groundwaters are responsible for the formation of various secondary uranium deposits in sandstones and siltstones of the Four Corners region of the U.S. It all makes good geochemical sense, one you've been through the relevant literature. What I've presented above is a bit oversimplified and meant only to convey the "big picture", but if you delve into this subject I can promise you'll be utterly fascinated by it. Hope this helps . . . Cheers- Earl Verbeek From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 13 06:17:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Thu May 13 05:17:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Australian Rhyolite References: <000001c438e2$388b15a0$ade4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <001a01c438e4$536148c0$6ba3490c@pete> And one more comment, It doesn't require any unusual concentration of uranium in an area to produce fluorescence in agate and chalcedony. It only take say 100 parts per million or less, and almost any area can have enough trace uranium present, to produce fluorescent chalcedony. Especially when (as Earl notes) igneous and hydrothermal processes can concentrate whatever uranium is there to begin with. Fluorescent agate doesn't have to be associated with any uranium deposits or even visible uranium minerals--just trace U in the groundwater. Pete >>Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Australian Rhyolite > >Uranium seems unlikely to me (with my limited knowledge of the area) as the occurrence is volcanic and I'm unaware of any uranium minerals in the > >vicinity.... > > OK, but it's a little more complex than that.... From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 13 06:45:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Thu May 13 05:45:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Australian Rhyolite Message-ID: <051320041244.20102.40A36DBE0009008F00004E862160376021FF8D9E8B8C989196918D90@att.net> I'm glad Earl and Pete were able to answer in detail; I was going to offer a comparable but far less comprehensive explanation. However, I will add that, fortunately, the uranyl ion is easy to detect with a spectroscope. The fluorescence pattern produces what we call the "five fingers" (on a graphical output) or the "five bands" (when looking through a diffraction grating or prism spectroscope). Axel Emmermann took some decent photos of this phenomenon and posted them not too long ago. I just acquired a very nice Leitz hand spectroscope with fine resolution. If you are really motivated to find out if uranyl is the cause of your fluorescence, I can check that for free, but of course I would need a small and moderately bright piece of the material. I can return it if you'd like. Please let me know. Thanks, Don Halterman > And one more comment, > > It doesn't require any unusual concentration of uranium in an area to > produce fluorescence in agate and chalcedony. It only take say 100 parts > per million or less, and almost any area can have enough trace uranium > present, to produce fluorescent chalcedony. Especially when (as Earl notes) > igneous and hydrothermal processes can concentrate whatever uranium is there > to begin with. Fluorescent agate doesn't have to be associated with any > uranium deposits or even visible uranium minerals--just trace U in the > groundwater. > > Pete > > > >>Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Australian Rhyolite > > > > >Uranium seems unlikely to me (with my limited knowledge of the area) as > the occurrence is volcanic and I'm unaware of any uranium minerals in the > > >vicinity.... > > > > OK, but it's a little more complex than that.... > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 13 07:16:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Thu May 13 06:16:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Australian Rhyolite References: <051320041244.20102.40A36DBE0009008F00004E862160376021FF8D9E8B8C989196918D90@att.net> Message-ID: <003a01c438ec$94004720$6ba3490c@pete> Hi Don, Can you actually see the "fingerprint" sharp bands in the uranyl spectrum, with a hand spectroscope? I also have a small handspectroscope, I think it is probably also made by Leitz, perhaps the same model; it is in my office now, don't have it handy to look at, but it's, well, perhaps just a tiny bit larger than a tube of chapstick. I've had fun looking at the spectra of different kinds of fluorescent lights, and the Fraunhofer lines in the sun's spectrum; most minerals are not bright enough to see much with it, but to be honest, I haven't really tried looking at many; I'll have to get a bright uranium mineral and a bright UV lamp, and give it a try! Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 6:44 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Australian Rhyolite > > I'm glad Earl and Pete were able to answer in detail; I was going to offer a comparable but far less comprehensive explanation. However, I will add that, fortunately, the uranyl ion is easy to detect with a spectroscope. The fluorescence pattern produces what we call the "five fingers" (on a graphical output) or the "five bands" (when looking through a diffraction grating or prism spectroscope). Axel Emmermann took some decent photos of this phenomenon and posted them not too long ago. I just acquired a very nice Leitz hand spectroscope with fine resolution. If you are really motivated to find out if uranyl is the cause of your fluorescence, I can check that for free, but of course I would need a small and moderately bright piece of the material. I can return it if you'd like. Please let me know. > > Thanks, > > Don Halterman > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 13 08:02:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu May 13 07:02:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Australian Rhyolite References: <051320041244.20102.40A36DBE0009008F00004E862160376021FF8D9E8B8C989196918D90@att.net> <003a01c438ec$94004720$6ba3490c@pete> Message-ID: <00c301c438f2$d1b9c3b0$6402a8c0@axel> Hi Don & Pete I bought a small handspectroscope some time ago and looked at some U-minerals. Only the brightest can be viewed trough the spectroscope because you have to narrow the slit or the broad spectral bands will merge. It get's a little easier if you put the UV-lamp and mineral in a box and fix the spectroscope through a tight hole in the lit. Still easier: use the Mark Cole (Hi Mark) trick and cover yourself with black plastic foil . Make a small hole in the foil, just large enough to put the scope through. Any stray light that reaches your eye will overshout the dim spectrum. Still, even with the plastic, it's a continuous compromise between resolution and getting enough light. It's a lot easier with an old CD two cutter blades and a digital camera ( with macro setting). I''l send you an example off list. Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" To: Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 3:17 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Australian Rhyolite > Hi Don, > > Can you actually see the "fingerprint" sharp bands in the uranyl spectrum, > with a hand spectroscope? > > I also have a small handspectroscope, I think it is probably also made by > Leitz, perhaps the same model; it is in my office now, don't have it handy > to look at, but it's, well, perhaps just a tiny bit larger than a tube of > chapstick. I've had fun looking at the spectra of different kinds of > fluorescent lights, and the Fraunhofer lines in the sun's spectrum; most > minerals are not bright enough to see much with it, but to be honest, I > haven't really tried looking at many; I'll have to get a bright uranium > mineral and a bright UV lamp, and give it a try! > > Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Cc: > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 6:44 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Australian Rhyolite > > > > > > I'm glad Earl and Pete were able to answer in detail; I was going to offer > a comparable but far less comprehensive explanation. However, I will add > that, fortunately, the uranyl ion is easy to detect with a spectroscope. > The fluorescence pattern produces what we call the "five fingers" (on a > graphical output) or the "five bands" (when looking through a diffraction > grating or prism spectroscope). Axel Emmermann took some decent photos of > this phenomenon and posted them not too long ago. I just acquired a very > nice Leitz hand spectroscope with fine resolution. If you are really > motivated to find out if uranyl is the cause of your fluorescence, I can > check that for free, but of course I would need a small and moderately > bright piece of the material. I can return it if you'd like. Please let me > know. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Don Halterman > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 13 08:06:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Thu May 13 07:06:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mail Delivery (failure rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Message-ID: <200405131405.i4DE58tq005667@bubbleator.drizzle.com> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html audio/x-wav --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 13 08:38:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Gerry Koshman) Date: Thu May 13 07:38:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] How do you rate the Diamond Pacific "Titan" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c438f7$daaaf110$6ee2a3ce@userq8p3k9g7xy> Hi Joe, I have had a Titan for about 15 years and they are a great machine. Any problems have been dealt with by phone and there have not been many. I would highly recommend it. Gerry -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Joe Davis Sent: May 12, 2004 9:15 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] How do you rate the Diamond Pacific "Titan" I am seriously considering buying this combination unit. Does anyone own one? What are the pluses and minuses. Can you put non Diamond Pacific wheels on it? Joe Davis _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 13 08:44:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Catherine Gaber) Date: Thu May 13 07:44:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] rls micromounter Message-ID: does anyone know a micromounter with the initials rls? we have a perky box with gold micros that spell out 2002 and we would like to find the creator. please send contact information too if you have it. thanks, cathy gaber From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 13 09:29:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu May 13 08:29:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] How do you rate the Diamond Pacific "Titan" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040513082708.02032768@mail.spiritone.com> It's the best machine of its type you can buy. I use Crystalite wheels on mine. Don't know about other brands but with spacers any wheel should fit. At 08:15 PM 5/12/2004, you wrote: >I am seriously considering buying this combination unit. Does anyone own >one? What are the pluses and minuses. Can you put non Diamond Pacific >wheels on it? > >Joe Davis Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 13 10:47:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kris Murray) Date: Thu May 13 09:47:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] trip to NM, etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0B5C30AC-A4FD-11D8-97BF-000393A96092@mac.com> carlsbad caverns are really neat. ~KM I've failed over and over and over again in my life and that is why I=20 succeed. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0--- Michael Jordan On May 11, 2004, at 6:57 PM, Keith Q Hayes wrote: > The next couple weeks I will be driving to NM from Michigan. Any=20 > great tips > for rockshops or collecting along the way? I plan to head from KC=20 > through > Denver, with possible detour north to visit New Belgium Brewing for a=20= > plant > tour, then head down to NM. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 13 14:29:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Italian Minerals) Date: Thu May 13 13:29:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD - NEW items on Ebay ! Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20040513222750.01b10cb8@popmail.libero.it> Hi there, Last hours to bid on Ebay ! nice rocks at low starting bids !!! Goto: http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=italianminerals&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=25 Have fun !!! Alessandro ============================= Italian Minerals http://www.italianminerals.com quality minerals from Italy and worldwide ============================= From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 13 16:25:44 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Jim Daly) Date: Thu May 13 15:25:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] rls micromounter References: Message-ID: <000d01c43937$c8b4e7a0$605204d0@jim> There's a Robert L. Stewart in North Carolina. No E-mail that I know of. I don't know him- just saw a listing in the Directory of Micromounters. Jim Sauktown Sales Microminerals and mounting supplies http://www.sauktown.com sauktown@adsnet.com or orders@sauktown.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Gaber" To: Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 9:44 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] rls micromounter > does anyone know a micromounter with the initials rls? we have a perky > box with gold micros that spell out 2002 and we would like to find the > creator. please send contact information too if you have it. > > thanks, cathy gaber > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 13 19:18:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu May 13 18:18:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Smithsonian Genstones Handbook Front Cover Error Message-ID: <40A41E0C.52E9@Tomaszewski.net> Over a year ago I picked up a Smithsonian Handbooks volume by Cally Hall on Gemstones (160 pages, Doring Kindersley Ltd, publisher). It is a fairly complete survey of minerals that can be cut as gemstones, with good reference material on measurable physical and optical properties. It is almost useable as a field guide, but it comes up short on the text descriptive details, like habit and association information, that you expect in a field guide. It has great pictures of cut and rough. Its a decent enough handbook to put next to my field guides, and it gets pulled down often enough to keep it there. When I pulled it down today the cover struck me. The top center stone, pictured between a rubellite and an aquamarine, is a transparent, bright yellow, cut gem labeled Azurite; if you look on page 83 you can find what is clearly the same stone pictured as Citrine. And its the 2002 printing (instead of the original 1994, or corrected reprint in 2000). It is the only error I've found, but it sure is a big one; no wonder it took me so long to see it, it was obvious. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 13 22:08:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Thu May 13 21:08:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Database Screen Shots In-Reply-To: <409AE82F.4F42E8B0@att.net> Message-ID: <200405140406.i4E46RU1071512@mxsf07.cluster1.charter.net> Don and I have finally just about come to an end with this database project--he is finishing up the user's manual now. I thought some of yall might be interested in a few screenshots of a few of the forms. Be warned, pretty large page, so on dial up, might take a while. http://www.hockyjocky.com/minerals.htm Tommy Armstrong N 35* 23' 52'' W 78* 49' 9'' From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 14 04:01:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Patrick M. Harvey) Date: Fri May 14 03:01:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Database Screen Shots In-Reply-To: <200405140406.i4E46RU1071512@mxsf07.cluster1.charter.net> References: <409AE82F.4F42E8B0@att.net> <200405140406.i4E46RU1071512@mxsf07.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040514060312.02cdaeb0@mail.adelphia.net> I'll wait for the manual... How Much and where do I PayPal to? d;*) Patrick At 09:09 PM 5/13/04, you wrote: > Don and I have finally just about come to an end with this database >project--he is finishing up the user's manual now. I thought some of yall >might be interested in a few screenshots of a few of the forms. Be warned, >pretty large page, so on dial up, might take a while. > >http://www.hockyjocky.com/minerals.htm > >Tommy Armstrong >N 35* 23' 52'' W 78* 49' 9'' > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Patrick M. Harvey NAR 81752 L2 Bluegrass Rocketry Society NAR# 657 - Advisor Visit the BluesRockS website: http://users.adelphia.net/~iceage/index.html Kentucky TARC teams welcome! From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 14 05:57:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Fri May 14 04:57:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Australian Rhyolite Message-ID: <051420041155.16939.40A4B3CE000BCBA50000422B2160375964FF8D9E8B8C989196918D90@att.net> On second thought, hold that idea. I looked at a piece of Virgin Valley Opal last night, using a SuperBright close-up and with the spectroscope slit wide open, and I barely saw the spectrum. Pete probably already knew that but was waiting for me to find out for myself. This was a not-inexpensive prism scope, but in the end I think I may do better with my $25 diffraction-grating student model! I think the prism type requires more light. If you saw Axel's photos they were good enough to distinguish the uranyl bands. However there is another test someone might be able to do in about 15 minutes and for almost nothing--the catch is that you would need someone who works in a chem lab. By dissolving some of the material in the infamous hydrofluoric acid and doing a microchemical test with a reagent called squaric acid (3,4-dihydroxy-3-cyclobutene-1,2-dione), you can create a unique precipitate that will indicate the presence of uranium. While this does not empirically prove that uranium is part of the activation, it is sufficient evidence to make an educated assumption. Don > Hi Don, > > Can you actually see the "fingerprint" sharp bands in the uranyl spectrum, > with a hand spectroscope? > > I also have a small handspectroscope, I think it is probably also made by > Leitz, perhaps the same model; it is in my office now, don't have it handy > to look at, but it's, well, perhaps just a tiny bit larger than a tube of > chapstick. I've had fun looking at the spectra of different kinds of > fluorescent lights, and the Fraunhofer lines in the sun's spectrum; most > minerals are not bright enough to see much with it, but to be honest, I > haven't really tried looking at many; I'll have to get a bright uranium > mineral and a bright UV lamp, and give it a try! > > Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Cc: > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 6:44 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Australian Rhyolite > > > > > > I'm glad Earl and Pete were able to answer in detail; I was going to offer > a comparable but far less comprehensive explanation. However, I will add > that, fortunately, the uranyl ion is easy to detect with a spectroscope. > The fluorescence pattern produces what we call the "five fingers" (on a > graphical output) or the "five bands" (when looking through a diffraction > grating or prism spectroscope). Axel Emmermann took some decent photos of > this phenomenon and posted them not too long ago. I just acquired a very > nice Leitz hand spectroscope with fine resolution. If you are really > motivated to find out if uranyl is the cause of your fluorescence, I can > check that for free, but of course I would need a small and moderately > bright piece of the material. I can return it if you'd like. Please let me > know. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Don Halterman > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 14 06:29:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Fri May 14 05:29:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Waurika, Oklahoma Message-ID: <147.299d0272.2dd6154c@aol.com> A couple months ago there was an email about fossil collecting in Waurika, OK. I'm trying to schedule a trip over in that area in a few weeks. I'd sure appreciate additional info on the area and collecting sites there. Thanks, Docia --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 14 11:13:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Fri May 14 10:13:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] How do you rate the Diamond Pacific "Titan" Message-ID: <1d3.20fa3248.2dd657f3@aol.com> If you can easily afford the Titan, it is the best way to go... And if can afford the Titan you should go all diamond.. I suppose you could order it without wheels ? and then put on silicon carbide ? However, I have heard they use OFF shaft sizes of some sort on their machines ? So certain wheels may not fit properly ? It is a big machine with adequate room between wheels for all cabbing projects... RnL --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 14 11:32:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Fri May 14 10:32:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Paulina Pink Petrified Wood Message-ID: <158.3502f313.2dd65c60@aol.com> Is there any theory as to what causes this petrified wood's color to be only pink? Is this "Pure Pink" wood found in any other state? Country? T. McGinnis --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 14 11:41:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri May 14 10:41:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] How do you rate the Diamond Pacific "Titan" In-Reply-To: <1d3.20fa3248.2dd657f3@aol.com> References: <1d3.20fa3248.2dd657f3@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040514103825.02953ec0@mail.spiritone.com> The shaft is 1" diameter. At 10:12 AM 5/14/2004, you wrote: >If you can easily afford the Titan, it is the best way to go... And if can >afford the Titan you should go all diamond.. > >I suppose you could order it without wheels ? and then put on silicon >carbide ? > >However, I have heard they use OFF shaft sizes of some sort on their machines >? >So certain wheels may not fit properly ? > >It is a big machine with adequate room between wheels for all cabbing >projects... > >RnL Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 14 11:45:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri May 14 10:45:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Paulina Pink Petrified Wood In-Reply-To: <158.3502f313.2dd65c60@aol.com> References: <158.3502f313.2dd65c60@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040514103923.02946ec0@mail.spiritone.com> It is not only pink; it comes in pale green and blue as well, and has black dendrites in some pieces. Trace minerals in the solution which filled the cavities left by the limbs in the pyroclast are responsible for the colors. Texas Spring limbs from Nevada are one other pink limb cast; I am sure other deposits exist. At 10:31 AM 5/14/2004, you wrote: >Is there any theory as to what causes this petrified wood's color to be only >pink? >Is this "Pure Pink" wood found in any other state? Country? > >T. McGinnis Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 14 21:27:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Fri May 14 20:27:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Paulina Pink Petrified Wood References: <158.3502f313.2dd65c60@aol.com> <6.1.0.6.2.20040514103923.02946ec0@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <003201c43a2c$b8b5a2e0$4ba5490c@pete> Now of course, saying "trace minerals" is good as far as it goes, but the trick is, what trace minerals, exactly? I don't think anyone knows for sure. Some metals CAN cause certain colors, but that doesn't mean that every mineral (such as the pink wood) is really colored by that same thing. Black is almost surely manganese oxides; that's easy. Brown, red, and yellow are iron oxides; that's easy too. But the pale pink--that's a toughie. Manganese CAN cause some minerals to be pink, such as rhodochrosite or manganocalcite, but the pink chalcedony is not likely to be that. Ditto for copper being blue in minerals--true, but that's probably not the cause of the pale milky pastel blue in some chalcedony. Both the pink and pale blue could be do to scattering of light by some "unknown" microscopic mineral inclusions in the chalcedony. sincerely, Pete Modreski ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" To: Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:42 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Paulina Pink Petrified Wood > It is not only pink; it comes in pale green and blue as well, and has black > dendrites in some pieces. Trace minerals in the solution which filled the > cavities left by the limbs in the pyroclast are responsible for the colors. > Texas Spring limbs from Nevada are one other pink limb cast; I am sure > other deposits exist. > > At 10:31 AM 5/14/2004, you wrote: > >Is there any theory as to what causes this petrified wood's color to be only > >pink? > >Is this "Pure Pink" wood found in any other state? Country? > > > >T. McGinnis > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 15 08:50:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sat May 15 07:50:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Database Screen Shots References: <409AE82F.4F42E8B0@att.net> <200405140406.i4E46RU1071512@mxsf07.cluster1.charter.net> <6.0.3.0.2.20040514060312.02cdaeb0@mail.adelphia.net> Message-ID: <001f01c43a8c$089484c0$21a5490c@pete> So Tommy, I'm sure you've explained this to the Rockhounds group before online, but for those of us who don't remember and have long since deleted those messages, could you re-explain what your database is going to be? I looked at the sample screens shown on your website, but it doesn't give a real clear idea about what's going to be there--shows that you'll have a listing of "collections" and such. Sincerely, Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick M. Harvey" To: Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 7:04 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mineral Database Screen Shots > I'll wait for the manual... How Much and where do I PayPal to? > > d;*) > > Patrick > > At 09:09 PM 5/13/04, you wrote: > > Don and I have finally just about come to an end with this database > >project--he is finishing up the user's manual now. I thought some of yall > >might be interested in a few screenshots of a few of the forms. Be warned, > >pretty large page, so on dial up, might take a while. > > > >http://www.hockyjocky.com/minerals.htm > > > >Tommy Armstrong > >N 35* 23' 52'' W 78* 49' 9'' > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > Patrick M. Harvey > NAR 81752 L2 > Bluegrass Rocketry Society NAR# 657 - Advisor > Visit the BluesRockS website: > http://users.adelphia.net/~iceage/index.html > Kentucky TARC teams welcome! > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 15 10:32:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Dave Bese) Date: Sat May 15 09:32:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Paulina pink Message-ID: Actually the Paulina 'wood' are not petrified, but casts left after the wood was gone, i.e. no woodgrain. I've found that most true petrified wood is colored by the type of wood and the trace minerals of the area. I have several large pieces from the Little Bear Creek site that is black/white with great gain, although some areas have blue agate replacing the white. Found one remarkable piece in the Canyon River, east of Shelton that shows clear grain, but it's shot thru with agatized wormholes. Alright, out tomorrow for zeolites! --- David Bese The Rainforest Hippie Pt. Orchard, Wa. ____________________________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 15 10:59:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sat May 15 09:59:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Paulina pink In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040515095533.02032f78@mail.spiritone.com> Actually, a lot of the material in the area is not casts but true petrified wood. The petrified wood is not pink, however. It looks more like Bear Creek (which is just to the west). I have a 110-pounder that I just sliced up - I might make a tabletop with it lol. At 09:31 AM 5/15/2004, you wrote: >Actually the Paulina 'wood' are not petrified, but casts left after the >wood was gone, i.e. no woodgrain. I've found that most true petrified wood >is colored by the type of wood and the trace minerals of the area. I have >several large pieces from the Little Bear Creek site that is black/white >with great gain, although some areas have blue agate replacing the white. > >Found one remarkable piece in the Canyon River, east of Shelton that shows >clear grain, but it's shot thru with agatized wormholes. Alright, out >tomorrow for zeolites! > >--- >David Bese >The Rainforest Hippie >Pt. Orchard, Wa. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 15 11:39:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Sat May 15 10:39:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Database Screen Shots In-Reply-To: <001f01c43a8c$089484c0$21a5490c@pete> Message-ID: <200405151729.i4FHThWp040560@mxsf30.cluster1.charter.net> There are some caveats to this program. As it was originally conceived as a custom application for the Sterling Hill Mineral Museum, for myself, and for Don, and not conceived and written for a distributed executable file, I wrote it to be a Microsoft Office application. It is written for Access 2000, 2002, 2003 and needs to run under a full installation of Microsoft Office Professional. In this way, Don,I,and SHMM could leverage the very robust features in MS Office, such as Word, Excel, Outlook, and most of all Access. For example, one can use the built in query by form, query by selection, and search functionalites that Access has built in. That way, I do not have to duplicate those functions. For example, say you want to search for all specimens that cost more than $35.00 and less than $50.00 you could simply use Access's built in function to ">35 and <50"--Those records would then be displayed. Now I do have search screens for the normal searches, but by running under Access, you can do the example above without any programming on my part. You also can open the query builder and create your own query, and create your own reports using Access's very good report builder. So, in another words, a lot of the extras are things that I did not create, but rather just do them with Office. One of the main deficiencies are the reports, as I have not really had enough time to create them. But with "Access for Dummies", you could do them yourself. You have complete access to the tables and the code, can modify if you like. But obviously, this also makes support from my end a bit more difficult. The program also has a simple contacts table for correspondence about minerals and uses automation to create Word Letters and Email messages. You can attach these to a specimen or just search for all letters written or emails sent to a certain person. In fact I am sending you this message from within the database so that I can go back and find it relatively easily. You can create multiple collections within the database as well as save library pictures and documents that can be easily attached to each specimen. The library, to me, one of the most useful features and probably the one that in the future I will use the most. It allows you to save any kind of document, attach parameters to those documents, and then be able to search all the myriad documents that you accumulate with a pretty easy search interface. And along with Access's built in search, query, and reporting functions, you can really bring a lot of information together reasonably quickly. For example, say you like Tsumeb--you could add all info that you gather in your research about Tsumeb, maps, essays, articles, etc. and save essentially links to them in the database. But instead of just saving links, the database actually creates a copy of those documents and deposits them into its own library vault (folder). In many ways, this is very similar to creating a web, with the database keeping track of the links and doing the relationships for the links. Now of course you can do this by simply creating favorites, which are essentially just hyperlinks to the files, but what happens when some document that you have linked to on some website suddenly disappears? You have of course lost that document. By actually copying it into a subfolder of the application, those documents will always be available and also when you want to back up everything, all you have to do is to save the master folder (and all the subfolders are also backed up). If, the document that you are wishing to save is actually text, or a pdf, or a word document, or a PowerPoint presentation you can then actually copy the contents of the document and paste it into the description of the document, and can then do a full text search of that document, but can still view it in its native format by clicking its hyperlink. If you notice when surfing the web, and you want to save a webpage that has links to other pictures, if you go to file save as, and select .mht, the entire webpage will be saved including its pictures, etc. as one file. This is extremely useful for those docs that have text and pictures. The file size is big, and I have no illusions that as one builds one's library, that the size of the main folder will increase dramatically. But a zipped file on a cd could probably hold a gigabyte of data on one cd. And a DVD even much more. Another thing the program does while copying the documents (and Pictures) , is that it renames the copy (not the original) in a consistent manner so that when one views the files in the subfolder, one can pretty much recognize what it is. Also, if one has Windows indexing services on, or some full text search, one can use that to find any word in any document. I really wanted to include a full text module (kind of like a Google for that folder but it costs too much). Pico Search will do it for free if the files are on a website, and one could actually copy the entire folder to a website and let Pico Search index them for free. Individual library pictures are treated a bit different but are copied and linked in the same manner. The difference is that the pictures can be displayed within the application to select the one you want. With documents, the data about the document is displayed. With pictures, you can select the picture and then bring up all the data about it that you entered, or enter more data. The picture file name is generated by taking the mineral name, the country, mine name, and then as much other locality data that will fit to make the filename no longer than 54 characters. Or you can create another file name at the time of entering the data.It is really simple to attach these library documents to All the main data about the specimen, including its unique number, is in the main "Specimen" table. All other data is in tables related to the main table with that number. Don has created, after doing a good deal of research with museums and serious collector, pretty much all the fields that one might need. But you can add others on your own, but at this time the searching on those is a bit more kludgy for a non-Access user. But anyone who is at all familiar with creating a query, could extract whatever data he wanted in less than a minute or two. Also, although not fully implemented in this version is a method to create very easily (once you get used to it) up to 200 fields in a separate table. Once created, you can then pick those fields, and create a form based on them, and then enter the data. Once entered, from that form, you can query it in just about any way you want and automatically dump that data to Excel and it will chart it. A link to that Excel File is then created, and saved within the database. You can then modify that spreadsheet however you want for analysis, if that is your bag. It is based on a module I created for a waste water plant where we have a couple of hundred parameters that we want to keep up with and want to be able to plot certain ones against others with certain values, dataes, etc. A person doing for example a research project on multiple minerals, say their compositions, could create the fields they wish to study for each specimen, create an input form to enter the data about each one, then query the data very easily using Access's built in query by form function, get just those records that met his critera, then export to excell for analysis and graphing. Say for example, you were a mineralogist, and were analyzing the composition of 200 different samples of a mineral from different localites. You could create fields for each of the consituents of the minerals, time analyzed, method, etc. etc. and then create a very user friendly form to input the data. Then you could then very easily query the data with something like all all specimens which had value of cadmium above certain level and the location and all that had zinc below a certain level, and all that came from withing a certain formation, blah, blah, blah. But it would work, if you wanted to do something like that. I have used the same module with some modifications to create the fields of all the parameters that a wastewater or water plant has to monitor, create input forms that were mirror images of the lab bench sheets (or created new lab data benchsheets), and have the whole thing ready for data entry in about 4 hours. And we are talking about scores of parameters and each one different for each plant. So it really could be used for really serious research if you wanted to. But of course when doing much research like that, you have access to some big time program that has more features. Or perhaps you don't. There are very few programs in the world that are better for data analysis and charting than excel. And for a limited number of entries (say less than 25,000), there are few programs that are any better than Access for storing and querying and reporting that data. You get a lot of bang for the buck with these two. Databases are much more efficient and flexible containers for data, while spreadsheets are excellent for data analysis. One could actually set up a different complete database for each project. But that would be of more interest for scientists doing research. Tommy Armstrong > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Peter J. Modreski > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 10:51 AM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mineral Database Screen Shots > > So Tommy, I'm sure you've explained this to the Rockhounds > group before online, but for those of us who don't remember > and have long since deleted those messages, could you > re-explain what your database is going to be? I looked at > the sample screens shown on your website, but it doesn't give > a real clear idea about what's going to be there--shows that > you'll have a listing of "collections" and such. > > Sincerely, Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patrick M. Harvey" > To: > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 7:04 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mineral Database Screen Shots > > > > I'll wait for the manual... How Much and where do I PayPal to? > > > > d;*) > > > > Patrick > > > > At 09:09 PM 5/13/04, you wrote: > > > Don and I have finally just about come to an end with > this database > > >project--he is finishing up the user's manual now. I > thought some of yall > > >might be interested in a few screenshots of a few of the forms. Be > warned, > > >pretty large page, so on dial up, might take a while. > > > > > >http://www.hockyjocky.com/minerals.htm > > > > > >Tommy Armstrong > > >N 35* 23' 52'' W 78* 49' 9'' > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > >Subscription Services: > > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > Patrick M. Harvey > > NAR 81752 L2 > > Bluegrass Rocketry Society NAR# 657 - Advisor > > Visit the BluesRockS website: > > http://users.adelphia.net/~iceage/index.html > > Kentucky TARC teams welcome! > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 15 19:25:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sat May 15 18:25:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Accuracy of published GPS waypoints to rockhounding sites Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040515182236.02a54da8@mail.spiritone.com> As promised, I have compared a handful of the waypoints in the GPS book to my own. The results are posted here: http://orerockon.com/dont%20buy%20Gem%20Trails.htm The new version of my CD referenced on that page with 215 maps & over 500 waypoints is almost ready; I will announce it here when I have a few copies made... >There's one HUGE problem with doing that sort of GPS "data" collection: He >didn't go to many (any?) of those places and take his own coordinates. So >you are stuck with someone's guess of someone else's guess at the >location. And yes Virginia, many of the locations in the Gem Trails series >are no better than guesses, based on faulty memory, faulty data >collection, bad mapmaking (come on - hand drawn maps, nowhere near close >to scale? Oh puhleeeeeeeease!), rumors, innuendo, outdated information, >and flat out lies. There really is no excuse for not taking GPS points >when you are writing a guide that will send people out into the middle of >nowhere to dig stuff up. It's irresponsible. Hasn't been an excuse since I >dunno, at least 1990, when recreational GPSs showed up all over the place. >Other than the authors don't "do" technology. > >I would be willing to bet that well over half of those points are more >than a mile off. That's no better than DeLorme, IMO. For a beginner, >that's unacceptable. I cannot count the number of newbies who told me they >either gave up rockhounding or were very very disappointed in what they >found after their dismal experiences with the "Gem Trails" series books. > >I have had the book back ordered on Amazon for a while now (it's out of >stock and I am NOT holding my breath). When I get it I am going to enter >all the coords that are in common with my coords and compare. I will post >the results here. Harumph. 'Nuff said. Flame me off list, please. > >At 08:29 AM 3/9/2004, you wrote: >>Docia1154@aol.com wrote: >> >>>Have you noticed that the Atlas/Gazatteer has gps info on the pages? >>>Where we tend to go rockhounding out here in the wild wild west, DeLorme >>>gets you close, topos get you closer, and YOUR GPS gets you THERE. >>>IMHO. >>> >> >>Have you all seen or heard of "The GPS Guide To Western Gem Trails" by >>David A Kelty (Gem Guide Book Co, Baldwin CA) 2002. He has indexed all >>the locations in the Gem Trails books and others by decimal lat/long >>coordinates. I can see two advantages to this. >> >>It makes it easier to pinpoint and find locations for the younger people >>who (unlike most of us old grizzlies) are much more comfortable with the >>gadgets than the topos. >> >>It brings together in one book locations in all the Western states. Maybe >>they aren't the best, but a beginner and some of us poke-around people >>could find this useful... >> >>john > >Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com >Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com >CD of Oregon rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD >Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary >Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers >Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale >Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 16 10:58:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sun May 16 09:58:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Berks, Co. , PA Show this weekend Message-ID: <46.4e348c0c.2dd60e25@aol.com> This weekend, May 15 and 16 It is once again time for the B.M.S. 36th annual world of gems and minerals show. Sat. 10-5 Sun 10-4 Over 100 tables of jewelry, minerals, fossils,crystals,gems, cutting material, findings, lapidary supplies, etc. Admission donation is just a buck; students don't pay! Refreshments Available Plenty of Free Parking All Indoors, Air Conditioned, Displays and demonstrations!! Leesport Farmers' Market Banquet Hall Route 61 Leesport Pa 8 miles south of the Rt 61 exit of I-78 6 miles north of Reading More info may also be obtained from berksminer@aol.com Bring a friend!! Take home a memory!! Support the hobby!!! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 16 21:07:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (H.Durstling) Date: Sun May 16 20:07:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] The rock that smells like lavender Message-ID: Hi everyone, Twice in this past week I have been asked did I know what is the rock that smells like lavender. The first time I didn't pay much attention. But when I was asked the same question again, this afternoon, by someone with no connection whatever with the first asker, I thought, whoa, what's going on here? Does anyone know? Have any of you been asked this question also? Has there been something on TV lately about a rock that smells like lavender? Is there even such a stone? Cheers Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 16 21:23:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Carol J. Bova) Date: Sun May 16 20:23:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] The rock that smells like lavender In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040516202206.032f2308@pop.mindspring.com> Hi All, Hans, this was a puzzle I had to work on.. and I found an answer! It's not a natural stone, it's a manufactured essential oil diffuser with a heating element. You put in the essential oil (in this case lavender) and the heat vaporizes it for aromatherapy. You can tell the folks who asked to search online under lavender aroma stone. *g* Carol Carol J. Bova in California for now.... At 08:06 PM 5/16/2004, you wrote: >Hi everyone, > >Twice in this past week I have been asked did I know what is the rock that >smells like lavender. The first time I didn't pay much attention. But when >I was asked the same question again, this afternoon, by someone with no >connection whatever with the first asker, I thought, whoa, what's going on >here? > >Does anyone know? Have any of you been asked this question also? Has there >been something on TV lately about a rock that smells like lavender? Is >there even such a stone? > >Cheers >Hans Durstling >Moncton, Canada --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 17 15:01:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Joe Davis) Date: Mon May 17 14:01:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] What is the best way to determine if turquoise has been stabilized Message-ID: I have run across some older turquoise some of which has been polished. What is the best way to determine if it was "stabilized" without destroying the polish? Joe Davis From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 17 15:29:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon May 17 14:29:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] What is the best way to determine if turquoise has been stab... Message-ID: <23.3ecf6597.2dda8867@aol.com> In a message dated 5/17/04 2:01:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time, davisj@earthlink.net writes: What is the best way to determine if it was "stabilized" without destroying the polish? Joe Davis Joe, I'm not sure if it always works but I asked a guy if his turquoise had been stabilized and he held his cigarette lighter under a piece for about 60 seconds. Then he held it under my nose and said "stabilized turquoise smells like plastic." Although there was a slight burned smell on the rock it did not smell anything like burning plastic. However, there may be 'non-plastic' stabilizers - like water glass. I don't think water glass (sodium silicate) has a distinct smell but there is probably a test for it. To know for sure if turquoise has been treated will probably require more than one test. Grant Johnston, Chico, CA --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 17 17:20:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon May 17 16:20:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] The rock that smells like lavender Message-ID: <142.29c8523a.2ddaa287@aol.com> Hi Everyone!!! Hans, I have a friend who sells 3rd quality optical calcite, originally it's white, but she adds coloring and oil scents to coordinate with the colors.....like lavender would be a purplish stone that smells like lavender, redish would be cinnamon or apple scents. I'm not sure this is what you are talking about, but she does an awesome business at this. The scents are really nice for your home and it adds color to match your decor. All you do it spritz some of the oil on it about once a week to refresh the potpourri smell. She does the potpourri at special events and fairs and mixes them in a huge bowl, just like tossing salad. Carmen Lucky 7 Mine (rock shop) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 17 18:44:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon May 17 17:44:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] The rock that smells like lavender Message-ID: <143.2966e84b.2ddab62c@aol.com> In a message dated 5/17/04 4:20:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Lucky7Mine@aol.com writes: Lucky 7 Mine (rock shop) Where is your rockshop? i travel a lot and I like to know where they are. I just came back through Texas and had planned to stop at the one in Boerne -- but it was after dark when I went through. I did find a new rockshop further west on I-10, the Marfa Rockshop.-- but it is not in Marfa. I think it is near Segovia and Junction. Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 17 20:11:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon May 17 19:11:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] The rock that smells like lavender Message-ID: Grant, Lucky 7 Mine is located in the Dollywood Theme park in Pigeon Forge Tennessee. I am the manager of the Mine. We do sluicing and sell lots of things made from rocks....we also sell a multitude of rocks, both polished and in the rough. We also carry a good selection of fossils, from ammonites to megladon specimens and also meteorites. I welcome anyone who would like to come to Dollywood to look us up on park. I have been working in the shop for 8 seasons now and have been the manager for 5 seasons. Thanks for your interest! Carmen Lucky 7 Mine --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 18 17:26:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Tue May 18 16:26:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] :-) Message-ID: Argh, i don't like the plaintext :) password: 47352 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) application/octet-stream --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 18 18:10:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Tue May 18 17:10:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] :-) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Uh, little help? a. > Argh, i don't like the plaintext :) > > password: 47352 > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > application/octet-stream > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox Highway Patrolman: "Sir, do you know how fast you were going?" Heisenberg: "No, but I know EXACTLY where I was!" From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 18 18:34:10 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue May 18 17:34:10 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] :-) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20040518144211.039dbdd0@mail.aloha.net> That password bit looks like some virus messages we got a while ago, with an attachment---which of course I did not open. The :) in the subject doesn't seem like Kreigh, either. Not to say Kreigh is incapable of a smiley emoticon, but I've never seen him use one before, even off-List. What do you say, Kreigh? Aloha, Kitty At 02:09 PM 5/18/2004, you wrote: >Uh, little help? > >a. > > > Argh, i don't like the plaintext :) > > > > password: 47352 > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/mixed > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > application/octet-stream > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >-- > afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox > Highway Patrolman: "Sir, do you know how fast you were going?" > Heisenberg: "No, but I know EXACTLY where I was!" > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 18 19:46:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Jimmy Kuo) Date: Tue May 18 18:46:01 2004 Subject: OT: virus again, was: [Rockhounds] :-) Message-ID: <20040519014533.ZHVT18295.out012.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> That's from the latter series of Netskys that came with a password. The virus used this method to get past antivirus scanners (at least some of them; most were made to understand these ZIP files and remove them anyway). Jimmy > From: Kitty & Bill Heacox > Date: 2004/05/18 Tue PM 05:46:04 PDT > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] :-) > > That password bit looks like some virus messages we got a while ago, with > an attachment---which of course I did not open. The :) in the subject > doesn't seem like Kreigh, either. Not to say Kreigh is incapable of a > smiley emoticon, but I've never seen him use one before, even > off-List. What do you say, Kreigh? > > Aloha, Kitty > > > At 02:09 PM 5/18/2004, you wrote: > >Uh, little help? > > > >a. > > > > > Argh, i don't like the plaintext :) > > > > > > password: 47352 > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > multipart/mixed > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > application/octet-stream > > > --- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > >-- > > afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox > > Highway Patrolman: "Sir, do you know how fast you were going?" > > Heisenberg: "No, but I know EXACTLY where I was!" > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 18 20:00:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue May 18 19:00:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Recovering? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20040518161916.03a18100@mail.aloha.net> BTW, welcome back, Aaron. Hope your knee is improving on schedule! Aloha, Kitty From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 18 20:26:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue May 18 19:26:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: New OreRockOn CD V.2 is ready! Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040518191157.07bab2e8@mail.spiritone.com> Finally, I am finished with the OreRockOn On CD Version 2. Seems like it took dang near a year to get those maps together. The interface is brand new too; I finally gave in and swallowed the cost for Dreamworks, which made HTML editing relatively easy compared to NetScrape Composer (aka the bad code generator lol). Online access is coming soon. Although I might re-think that for Version 3; the interface on the CD is practically DSL/Cable only already, and the maps are already way too large to store on my ISP's server. At almost 700 megs, V2 is already close to an entire CD, and Version 3 is bound to spill over onto 2 CDs - yeech. Also, I am SICK of editing HTML for the time being lol. OreRockOn On CD is a CD of Oregon, Washington, and Idaho Rock Dig Locations that features: 215 USGS 7.5' topo map images in TIFF format - very large scale and finely detailed. Also in PNG for easy viewing. A clickable relief map of each state points you to detailed state region maps or detailed info & photos for each site. Waypoint files to upload to your GPS - Over 530 Waypoints! The information is accurate and complete as of NOW. No book can say that! 31 detailed descriptions of popular areas - Only dig sites that have GOOD material! Cost is $35.00 ppd. to the Continental US. Click on the CD link below to find out more & order. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of OR, WA, & ID rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 18 21:25:03 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue May 18 20:25:03 2004 Subject: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] :-) References: Message-ID: <40AAD363.50DF@Tomaszewski.net> A little help... I recognized the message as a Netsky virus varient from my mundane job as 'postmaster' for a large corporation. I have never seen a Netsky _not_ use a spoofed FROM address (though I have seen it send mail TO itself, the infected user), so I was rather confident it did not originate from me (or my Macintosh computers ;-). But someone who has my address on their computer is infected. Let me walk thru the steps I used to find out more about where the message really came from. BTW. the TO address was also on the infected computer, so there is a good chance it is a list subscriber. Now email was designed after the model of the postal service. There is an 'envelope' with TO and FROM addresses. Each server that handles a message 'cancels' the envelope so the message can be traced. The server only looks at the envelope for routing/delivery. 'Inside' the 'envelope' is a message 'body' -- the part you can see and read -- with its own TO and FROM addresses, which don't have to match what was on the envelope (can you smell/spell spam?). When the server delivers a message to your inbasket it copies the cancel marks from the envelope to the body of the message as 'headers' and hides them, and then it throws away the envelope. Most mail clients have an option to let you look at the full headers and see what the server has hidden. I have copied them for the message in question below. The 'Received' headers identify the servers that have handled the message and where it came from, beginning with the most recent. Any header below a server you do not trust is suspect and may be forged. Headers should form a complete trail that can be verified so the origination can be identified. In the message below I can trace the message from my server to my ISP's server (irresistable.cnchost.com) to Drizzle's server (bubbleator.drizzle.com) to the source, which was dialup-4.246.255.52.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [4.246.255.52]. My home network goes thru my firewall and always connects to the web at [64.1.93.36]; I have a small block of IP addresses and am part of the web. I know it didn't originate from me. Double-check. Find a message I sent to the list and note the format of the message-id... Message-ID: <407C930E.5770@Tomaszewski.net> ...and compare it with the one from the virus message... Message-ID: ...and see they don't have the same format. Triple check. Check a message I sent to the list and confirm what client I normally use for mailing... X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) ...and note the closest the virus message came to identifying itself was... X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.14 ...which does not match a version on any software I have that can send email. So the big question is who on the list lives in San Jose area and connects via Level3 on a dial-up line? If you recognize yourself, please go to the McAfee website, download the Stinger utility, and secure your system. If you can't secure your system, stay off the web and get expert help. Thank you again, Aaron, for stripping attachments to the list -- you pulled the fangs from this nasty. Kreigh P.S. Hi Kitty, yes I do occasionally use emoticons, but they are usually like the one above. *** BEGIN FULL MESSAGE HEADERS ==> Return-Path: Received: from 192.168.1.26 (127.0.0.1) by Tomaszewski.net with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Tue, 18 May 2004 19:31:59 -0400 Return-Path: Received: from bubbleator.drizzle.com (bubbleator.drizzle.com [216.162.192.19]) by irresistable.cnchost.com (ConcentricHost SMTP MX 1.45) id TAA21024 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 19:28:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bubbleator.drizzle.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by bubbleator.drizzle.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4INQEPl003176; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:26:15 -0700 Received: from choicenet (dialup-4.246.255.52.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [4.246.255.52]) by bubbleator.drizzle.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4INNdPm002314 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:23:40 -0700 To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com From: Kreigh@tomaszewski.net Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [Rockhounds] :-) Sender: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com Errors-To: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com X-BeenThere: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.14 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: X-Original-Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:23:38 -0800 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:23:38 -0800 X-JunkMail: NotJunk X-MFData: [3.293445 v2.1:1 n108 s1648 g16852 b16180 p0.020344 sN5 t0,195255] X-UIDL: 181707 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 Content-Length: 434 Argh, i don't like the plaintext :) password: 47352 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) application/octet-stream --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Content-Length: 6229 <== END FULL MESSAGE HEADERS *** Aaron Fox wrote: > > Uh, little help? > > a. > > > Argh, i don't like the plaintext :) > > > > password: 47352 > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/mixed > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > application/octet-stream > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > -- > afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox > Highway Patrolman: "Sir, do you know how fast you were going?" > Heisenberg: "No, but I know EXACTLY where I was!" > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 19 11:14:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Wed May 19 10:14:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Recovering? In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.0.20040518161916.03a18100@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: > BTW, welcome back, Aaron. Hope your knee is improving on schedule! > Yup. No crutches, and agressive P-T. It's all good. Should be able to get on the bike in a week or two. Sorry about the reply to the virus email, all. I've been slammed at school here, and just gave the message a cursory glance w/o thinking. My bad. And Kriegh, thanks many, many for the good trackback you posted! a. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 20 11:43:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (J B Murowchick) Date: Thu May 20 10:43:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] new to list Message-ID: Greetings! I'm new to this list, and wanted to introduce myself. I'm a mineralogy/geochemistry prof at UMKC and have been a mineral collector for 40 years (my dad was a mineralogist and collector). I'm interested in sulfides (especially iron sulfides), micromounts, phosphates, polarized light microscopy, and oddball species. I am willing to help with identification of minerals (microscopy, X-ray diffraction). Jim Murowchick __________________________________________________________ Dr. James B. Murowchick Associate Professor Office: (816) 235-2979 Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall Fax: (816) 235-5535 University of Missouri-Kansas City E-mail: murowchickj@umkc.edu 5110 Rockhill Road Kansas City, MO 64110 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 20 11:47:54 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Thu May 20 10:47:54 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] new to list Message-ID: <3b.47ba172c.2dde48ee@aol.com> In a message dated 5/20/2004 10:43:32 AM Pacific Standard Time, murowchickj@umkc.edu writes: Murowchick Greetings Dr. Murowchick: I haven't been on the list for awhile, but, if it is anything like it was a couple years ago, you're going to enjoy it. Nice to have you. Ron Winter Stonetrails.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 20 14:50:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Catherine Gaber) Date: Thu May 20 13:50:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] rock show Message-ID: <630ED140-AA9F-11D8-AD15-000A95A8FEB6@his.com> Come to the Chesapeake gem & mineral show this Saturday from 10-4 at Goucher College in Towson, MD. Free admission, top mineral dealers, original jewelry, mineral auction, displays, swappers, etc. Take I-695 Beltway Exit 27A south on Dulaney Valley Rd. to the college entrance and follow the signs. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 20 15:11:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Joe Davis) Date: Thu May 20 14:11:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New members-the Davis' Message-ID: Hello, We are Joe and Phyllis Davis and joined about 10 days ago. We live south of Seattle Wa. Phyllis has collected rocks most of her life (Joe speaking) and we have carted them around the world. Grin. She took a geology class in college and it stuck with her. I'm/was just a mechanical engineer. Unfortunately we did not start the lapidary aspect until two years ago. It was then we started the winter trek to Arizona and were introduced to this great adventure. As a result most of our collecting has been in Arizona. Phyllis has been making most of the "jewelry" I am the slab and rough cab man. I am concentration right now on jade and tiger eye. If it is quartz Phyllis "loves it'. Upon returning from this winters adventure we joined two clubs in the area. Some may have noted my ?? on the Diamond Pacific Titan a few days ago and the reason is that we are now slowly studying/purchasing the "cut it up and polish" it hardware. We are heading for eastern Oregon for the 4th to add to our collection, for that reason I enjoyed the recent "Fisher's" web site discovered on this list. Great participation by members and I enjoy the more technical discussions that so often are missing other places. Joe and Phyllis Davis From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 20 19:51:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Dave Bese) Date: Thu May 20 18:51:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] (No Subject) Message-ID: Well Jim, nice to meet you. I'm in Western Washington, SW of Bremerton. Tons of zeolites around here. I'll keep you in mind if I find a lot of cool stuff. As for Ron; many thanks for the Stonetrails info. Although I've been beating on the mountains for 40 years, I'll take any clues I can get. To all; your taxes paid for it and it's a great resource. Nationalatlas.gov; look up maps and print them. Very cool; no more $3 quadrant maps! --- David Bese The Rainforest Hippie Pt. Orchard, Wa. "Turbulence is life force. It is opportunity. Let's love turbulence and use it for change." ____________________________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 20 20:27:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Brian Doll) Date: Thu May 20 19:27:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New members-the Davis' Message-ID: Hi Joe and Phyllis: Always good to hear of a new rockhound in the area - I live in Puyallup, WA. I try to get out in the field as often as I can, but unfortunately this year the gas prices will be keeping me near home :( (I'm just a sheetrocker with a homemaker wife and four dogs, so every penny counts here!). I've had great luck so far this year at local garage sales. Also, I'm just getting started at cutting and polishing the rocks I've been collecting over the years. Ron Winter has been a great help with his many field trips he organized several years ago. You can still see his website at Stonetrails.com, although where he is now I'm not sure - Ron you out there? Well, hope to see you sometime and welcome to the list! Brian _________________________________________________________________ Learn to simplify your finances and your life in Streamline Your Life from MSN Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0405streamline.armx From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 20 20:32:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Brian Doll) Date: Thu May 20 19:32:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] new to list Message-ID: Hey Ron! Good to hear from you again! You still in Auburn? Give me a call sometime. Brian _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 20 21:56:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Joe Davis) Date: Thu May 20 20:56:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New members-the Davis' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Brian, We are in Federal Way. Thanks for the URL for Ron Winter, very good site but it looks like the site has been dormant for several months. Joe --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) message/rfc822 --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 21 09:12:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Dri) Date: Fri May 21 08:12:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New members-the Davis' References: Message-ID: <011d01c43f45$ecc14940$6701a8c0@dslverizon.net> Joe: Welcome to the List and a big ole' Hi Y'All from Mountlake Terrace, WA. My Sister and I are becoming addicted to Rockhound activities. Being that I have been picking up rocks, just rocks, since a small child, it was sorta' natural that eventually we would become more serious about what kind of rocks we pick up or dig up. Been more serious bout' this for near 2 years now. We are, however, still newbies me thinks. Dri-Anna (That is Dree-On-Na Whose last name is also Davis) WA - USA http://www.twospirit.net/computercubecolumn04-04.htm http://www.rainbowents.biz/rainbowafricanviolets.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Davis" To: Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 20:54 Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] New members-the Davis' > Brian, > > We are in Federal Way. Thanks for the URL for Ron Winter, very good site > but it looks like the site has been dormant for several months. > > Joe > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > message/rfc822 > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 21 12:37:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Jim Daly) Date: Fri May 21 11:37:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Microminerals from Sauktown Sales Message-ID: <000b01c43f60$354d86a0$4e5204d0@jim> I've posted another update to the pricelist. This time there is Willhendersonite from the type locality, Leucophoenicite from Franklin, NJ (also type locality), some material from the Belmont mine, Cerro Gordo, CA and Desautelsite from Idria, Ca, to name a few. If interested, go to www.sauktown.com If you are getting this directly, rather than through a list, and do not want to see these ads, please let me know at orders@sauktown.com Jim Daly Sauktown Sales Microminerals and mounting supplies http://www.sauktown.com sauktown@adsnet.com or orders@sauktown.com > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year > http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 21 14:25:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Mark Easterbrook) Date: Fri May 21 13:25:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] new to list Message-ID: <17668836.1085171067732.JavaMail.root@kermit.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Hi Jim, Welcome to the list. I am a UM-Rolla grad living in Charleston, South Carolina. Mark Easterbrook -----Original Message----- From: J B Murowchick Sent: May 20, 2004 1:42 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] new to list Greetings! I'm new to this list, and wanted to introduce myself. I'm a mineralogy/geochemistry prof at UMKC and have been a mineral collector for 40 years (my dad was a mineralogist and collector). I'm interested in sulfides (especially iron sulfides), micromounts, phosphates, polarized light microscopy, and oddball species. I am willing to help with identification of minerals (microscopy, X-ray diffraction). Jim Murowchick __________________________________________________________ Dr. James B. Murowchick Associate Professor Office: (816) 235-2979 Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall Fax: (816) 235-5535 University of Missouri-Kansas City E-mail: murowchickj@umkc.edu 5110 Rockhill Road Kansas City, MO 64110 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 22 14:44:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sat May 22 13:44:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] throw rocks at the Earth Message-ID: <7e.4efc7995.2de11566@aol.com> This is a great site if you enjoy crashing asteroids into the Earth. _http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/impacteffects/_ (http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/impacteffects/) Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 23 11:55:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Stuart Schmitt) Date: Sun May 23 10:55:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Wavellite References: Message-ID: <001101c440ef$0134b790$6400a8c0@STUART> I have the opportunity to purchase about 1000 pounds of Wavellite (from Mauldin Mtn., Montgomery County, Arkansas). My internet search for Wavellite did not find much for sale. Does anyone know if their is much of a market for Wavellite? Please contact me off line. With appreciation & gratitude, Stuart Schmitt Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine www.arcrystalmine.com 60 Mary's Eagle Trail Mount Ida, AR 71957 (870) 867-2443 From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 23 12:54:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Sun May 23 11:54:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Wavellite In-Reply-To: <001101c440ef$0134b790$6400a8c0@STUART> Message-ID: <200405231852.i4NIqLtF036483@mxsf22.cluster1.charter.net> I would think there is always a market for high quality Wavellite. It IS a classic location. Tommy Armstrong > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Stuart Schmitt > Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 1:54 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Wavellite > > I have the opportunity to purchase about 1000 pounds of > Wavellite (from Mauldin Mtn., Montgomery County, Arkansas). > My internet search for Wavellite did not find much for sale. > Does anyone know if their is much of a market for Wavellite? > Please contact me off line. > > With appreciation & gratitude, > Stuart Schmitt > Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine > www.arcrystalmine.com > 60 Mary's Eagle Trail > Mount Ida, AR 71957 > (870) 867-2443 > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 23 15:00:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sun May 23 14:00:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Wavellite In-Reply-To: <200405231852.i4NIqLtF036483@mxsf22.cluster1.charter.net> References: <001101c440ef$0134b790$6400a8c0@STUART> <200405231852.i4NIqLtF036483@mxsf22.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <60292.66.203.191.191.1085345960.squirrel@webmail.execulink.com> Er, maybe it will sell beginners, but the vast majority of collectors I suspect already have a piece; it's the sort of stuff you buy in your first or second year collecting, usually from a flat of dollar specimens. I contemplated a similar lot, but couldn't imagine how I'd move it. You might find a killer piece or two that would pay the price, but I doubt it; the great specimens don't generally end up in buckets. That's just me though; if you've got a good tourist trade, and the price is right so you can make money at a buck or three per piece, hey, go for it. I wouldn't worry much about what people are selling online; ARK wavellite won't sell online but it might move like hotcakes to folks passing thru the quartz district. All of the above is not meant to denigrate ARK wavellite, it is attractive and unusual material, surely the best locality in quantity and quality. Cheers, Tim "Dodging twisters in Southern Ontario" Jokela Jr tjokela@execulink.com http://www.element51.com http://www.ontariominerals.com > I would think there is always a market for high quality Wavellite. It IS a > classic location. > Tommy Armstrong > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com >> [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of >> Stuart Schmitt >> Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 1:54 PM >> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >> Subject: [Rockhounds] Wavellite >> >> I have the opportunity to purchase about 1000 pounds of >> Wavellite (from Mauldin Mtn., Montgomery County, Arkansas). >> My internet search for Wavellite did not find much for sale. >> Does anyone know if their is much of a market for Wavellite? >> Please contact me off line. >> >> With appreciation & gratitude, >> Stuart Schmitt >> Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine >> www.arcrystalmine.com >> 60 Mary's Eagle Trail >> Mount Ida, AR 71957 >> (870) 867-2443 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 24 07:06:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Henry Barwood) Date: Mon May 24 06:06:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Wavellite In-Reply-To: <001101c440ef$0134b790$6400a8c0@STUART> Message-ID: Dear Stuart, I've seen wavellite wax and wane over the years. Back in the 1970's there was a lot of excitement about some excellent finds at Dug Hill. Once the USFS closed down the operations, wavellite became scarce. Mauldin Mountain produced sporadic "good stuff" for the next 20 or so years. About 1990 there was a vein of excellent specimen material in the center pit that got everyone interested, then....nothing. Until the finds in the old "Government Pit" at Mauldin, good wavellite specimens remained fairly scarce. To make my answer even longer, it depends on the type of specimen material being found. Good crystalline botryoids with good color will always be in demand, and lesser material will mostly always be around. Henry Barwood -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Stuart Schmitt Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 12:54 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Wavellite I have the opportunity to purchase about 1000 pounds of Wavellite (from Mauldin Mtn., Montgomery County, Arkansas). My internet search for Wavellite did not find much for sale. Does anyone know if their is much of a market for Wavellite? Please contact me off line. With appreciation & gratitude, Stuart Schmitt Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine www.arcrystalmine.com 60 Mary's Eagle Trail Mount Ida, AR 71957 (870) 867-2443 _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 24 10:34:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Cliff Jackson) Date: Mon May 24 09:34:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about Quartz found at Crystal Ridge, CA Message-ID: <18266175.1085416398266.JavaMail.root@bert.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Dear List Was at Crystal Ridge Ca. this past weekend. Found some Smokey Quartz that has some small green needle like crystals inbeded. Was wondering if anyone may know what they are? By the way this is a nice site for gray smokey quartz if you like to dig a little. Thanks Cliff Jackson Las Vegas, NV Cliff Jackson From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 24 12:24:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Paul Gilmore) Date: Mon May 24 11:24:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about Quartz found at Crystal Ridge, CA Message-ID: Hi Cliff: The green needles are likely epidote, goethite, rutile (usually yellow), or tourmaline. Paul Gilmore Andover, MA >From: Cliff Jackson >Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about Quartz found at Crystal Ridge, CA >Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:33:17 -0700 (PDT) > >Dear List > >Was at Crystal Ridge Ca. this past weekend. Found some Smokey Quartz that >has some small green needle like crystals inbeded. Was wondering if anyone >may know what they are? By the way this is a nice site for gray smokey >quartz if you like to dig a little. > >Thanks >Cliff Jackson >Las Vegas, NV > >Cliff Jackson >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _________________________________________________________________ Get 200+ ad-free, high-fidelity stations and LIVE Major League Baseball Gameday Audio! http://radio.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200491ave/direct/01/ From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 24 12:35:03 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon May 24 11:35:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about Quartz found at Crystal Ridge, CA Message-ID: <052420041834.26399.40B2404E000478410000671F2161243646FF8D9E8B8C989196918D90@att.net> Could it be chlorite as well, or is that not known from that locality? Don > Hi Cliff: > > The green needles are likely epidote, goethite, rutile (usually yellow), or > tourmaline. > > Paul Gilmore > Andover, MA > > > >From: Cliff Jackson > >Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > >Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about Quartz found at Crystal Ridge, CA > >Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:33:17 -0700 (PDT) > > > >Dear List > > > >Was at Crystal Ridge Ca. this past weekend. Found some Smokey Quartz that > >has some small green needle like crystals inbeded. Was wondering if anyone > >may know what they are? By the way this is a nice site for gray smokey > >quartz if you like to dig a little. > > > >Thanks > >Cliff Jackson > >Las Vegas, NV > > > >Cliff Jackson > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get 200+ ad-free, high-fidelity stations and LIVE Major League Baseball > Gameday Audio! http://radio.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200491ave/direct/01/ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 24 13:47:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kenneth Quinn) Date: Mon May 24 12:47:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about Quartz found at Crystal Ridge, CA References: Message-ID: > > The green needles are likely epidote, goethite, rutile (usually yellow), > or > tourmaline. I have some quartz xls with green acicular inclusions; the label says they are actinolite, so that is another possibility. Kenneth Quinn From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 24 14:13:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon May 24 13:13:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Apophyllite roots Message-ID: <42.4ec706bb.2de3b130@aol.com> I recently purchased a beautiful Apophyllite chain (series of crystals), from Jalgaon, Maharashtra, India. The dealer pointed out that this piece contained two Apophyllite roots, very clearly visible from the bottom and sides. He said most Apophyllite specimens do not show their roots, especially as clearly as this one. Anyone care to elaborate on the significance of this "Root." T. McGinnis --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 24 14:41:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Mon May 24 13:41:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gold in Texas Message-ID: Gold? Sandy Creek,public access, Llano area and where it empties into Lake LBJ(also public access). Santa Anna. In creeks that cut into the rock of the Llano Uplift(private properties but fortunately I have access to one.) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 24 18:17:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Mon May 24 17:17:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Apophyllite roots References: <42.4ec706bb.2de3b130@aol.com> Message-ID: <001401c441ed$dd88c840$b1a6490c@pete> I never heard of the expression before! Sounds like an observation that would mostly be familiar only to a dealer who sees & sells a lot of apophyllite specimens. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:12 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Apophyllite roots > I recently purchased a beautiful Apophyllite chain (series of crystals), from > Jalgaon, Maharashtra, India. The dealer pointed out that this piece contained > two Apophyllite roots, very clearly visible from the bottom and sides. He > said most Apophyllite specimens do not show their roots, especially as clearly as > this one. Anyone care to elaborate on the significance of this "Root." > T. McGinnis > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 24 21:53:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Mon May 24 20:53:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] new member's hello Message-ID: Hi everyone: I am 56 years old and rockhounding has been one of my hobbies since I was ten years old. I decided to join this list because after reading some of the postings I concluded that it's membership is relatively highly imaginative and experimental, which is important to me with rocks, minerals, fossils and related amateur science. I am not a professional scientist, but have a B.S. in physics. My other dear hobbies include amateur radio and reading everything interesting I can find. I don't have a single favorite mineral, but Galena is one of my favorites, as I have been using it in crystal radios since the late 1950's. I spend most of my time in northwestern Pennsylvania where the rocks are mostly Devonian-period sediments. My most intense rock experience happened in the early 1980's: on a precarious ledge/outcrop I collected a Devonian rock. It was a bit too big to carry, so I hammered it in order to get a smaller piece to take home. The rock split open - in its middle was a complete animal, probably a cephalopod, so perfect it appeared as if it might come back to life in a suitable vivarium. I became so excited that I began to lose my footing and the organism fell out of my hand and dropped down into the forest below. I learned something from that! You all have a good week! Best regards Berj / KI3U _________________________________________________________________ Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 24 22:02:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon May 24 21:02:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Apophyllite roots References: <42.4ec706bb.2de3b130@aol.com> <001401c441ed$dd88c840$b1a6490c@pete> Message-ID: <40B2C505.1CCF@Tomaszewski.net> Pete, I had never heard of the expression in that context before either, but a quick search at Google for "Apophyllite Roots" came up with a quick example as the top hit... http://www.crystalsandjewelry.com/crystalsandstones/rzapo20.html ,,,and it is 'one of a kind'. I thought the description and photos explained it all, and had a good chuckle over the 'base' marketing. Enjoy, Crystal geneaology at its best. Kreigh Peter J. Modreski wrote: > > I never heard of the expression before! > > Sounds like an observation that would mostly be familiar only to a dealer > who sees & sells a lot of apophyllite specimens. > > Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:12 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Apophyllite roots > > > I recently purchased a beautiful Apophyllite chain (series of crystals), > from > > Jalgaon, Maharashtra, India. The dealer pointed out that this piece > contained > > two Apophyllite roots, very clearly visible from the bottom and sides. He > > said most Apophyllite specimens do not show their roots, especially as > clearly as > > this one. Anyone care to elaborate on the significance of this "Root." > > T. McGinnis From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 25 07:06:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Tue May 25 06:06:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] new member's hello Message-ID: <24.571461c7.2de49ea2@aol.com> Hi Berj, Welcome to the list from someone in West Virginia. I can appreciate you losing the cephalopod, I lost a nice Knightites gastropod by placing it in the front pocket of a sweatshirt while collecting. I still haven't refound that gastropod to this day. Even though almost every time I return to the site, I have memories of it. Dave Phillips Sunset Fossils & Minerals Morgantown, WVa --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 25 15:16:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Trinette Chuang) Date: Tue May 25 14:16:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about Quartz found at Crystal Ridge, CA Message-ID: <855ED055-AE6E-11D8-924D-000A956EE112@cox.net> Cliff, Could you please elaborate on where this location is. I am in Southern Ca. Thanks Trinette Chuang Escondido, CA From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 25 15:35:33 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue May 25 14:35:33 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about Quartz found at Crystal Ridge, CA In-Reply-To: <855ED055-AE6E-11D8-924D-000A956EE112@cox.net> References: <855ED055-AE6E-11D8-924D-000A956EE112@cox.net> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040525143156.01fd8350@mail.spiritone.com> I am continually surprised by people who haven't discovered Google. http://www.minwreck.com/crystalridge.html At 10:11 AM 5/25/2004, you wrote: >Cliff, Could you please elaborate on where this location is. I am in >Southern Ca. > >Thanks >Trinette Chuang >Escondido, CA Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of OR, WA, & ID rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 25 16:32:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Cliff Jackson) Date: Tue May 25 15:32:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about Quartz found at Crystal Ridge, CA Message-ID: <10710829.1085524261162.JavaMail.root@statler.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Thanks for replying for me I was going to send her to the same site. Cliff -----Original Message----- From: Tim Fisher Sent: May 25, 2004 2:32 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Question about Quartz found at Crystal Ridge, CA I am continually surprised by people who haven't discovered Google. http://www.minwreck.com/crystalridge.html At 10:11 AM 5/25/2004, you wrote: >Cliff, Could you please elaborate on where this location is. I am in >Southern Ca. > >Thanks >Trinette Chuang >Escondido, CA Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of OR, WA, & ID rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Cliff Jackson From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 25 16:41:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Tue May 25 15:41:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] help needed from UK References: Message-ID: <001101c442a9$49378ca0$6401a8c0@Junior> Here in Ontario, Canada, we have a famous old sodalite deposit, the Princess Sodalite Mine. Much mention is made of this locality having in 1906 supplied 200 cubic feet - 118 tons - of deep blue sodalite, for use in the residence of Sir Ernest Cassell, of Marlborough House, Park Lane, Hyde Park. I imagine that the residence would be rather lovely, but have never been able to find a photograph of it. Assuming Cassell's house remains, can anybody supply photographs of whatever the sodalite was used for? I'm assuming floors or something along those lines. The photo(s) would be used for two educational, non-profit websites: http://www.ontariominerals.com, dedicated to the minerals of Ontario; and OGReNet, the Ontario Geoscience Resource Network, http://www.ontariogeoscience.net . OGReNet is a site initiated by the University of Western Ontario, with the purpose of providing geoscience resources to teachers and acting as a liason between the teaching and geoscience communities. If necessary, I'd be willing to pay (or exchange a nice chunk of sodalite) for good photos; they would add a great deal to the above-mentioned websites. Many thanks to anybody that can help! Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals at: http://www.element51.com Ontario minerals at: http://www.ontariominerals.com From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 25 17:30:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Tue May 25 16:30:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds Message-ID: The May 2004 issue of Today's Chemist at Work, page 12, reports on ultrahard gem-size artificial diamonds, at least 50% harder than conventional diamonds, grown in about a day, by a chemical vapor deposition technique. It was done by scientists at the Carnegie Institution's Geophysical Lab in Wash., DC, and they published their work in Physica Status Solidi A (2004, 201, R25). Berj _________________________________________________________________ Best Restaurant Giveaway Ever! Vote for your favorites for a chance to win $1 million! http://local.msn.com/special/giveaway.asp From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 25 20:17:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue May 25 19:17:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds References: Message-ID: <40B3FE13.4959@Tomaszewski.net> Hi Berj, If they can make a 'big' "rock" in a day, think of how quickly they could make a lap or blade that needs little stones. 50% harder means faster cutting. I wonder how soon the technology will become commercial and reach the wheels of the average Lapidary. Welcome to the list. Interesting post. Thanks! Kreigh Berj N. Ensanian wrote: > > The May 2004 issue of Today's Chemist at Work, page 12, reports on ultrahard > gem-size artificial diamonds, at least 50% harder than conventional > diamonds, grown in about a day, by a chemical vapor deposition technique. It > was done by scientists at the Carnegie Institution's Geophysical Lab in > Wash., DC, and they published their work in Physica Status Solidi A (2004, > 201, R25). > > Berj From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Tue May 25 23:47:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Trinette Chuang) Date: Tue May 25 22:47:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about Quartz found at Crystal Ridge, CA Message-ID: <1B6B03E9-AE9E-11D8-9B55-000A956EE112@cox.net> Cliff, Could you please elaborate on where this location is. I am in Southern Ca. Thanks Trinette Chuang Escondido, CA From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 00:00:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Trinette Chuang) Date: Tue May 25 23:00:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about Quartz found at Crystal Ridge, CA Message-ID: I am sorry if I came across as Google-illiterate. Google is the first place I always try. I was just hoping that Cliff could describe the specific site in this area where he found his crystals on his last trip, since I am planning to go to this very location this weekend. I would love to look for these green embedded crystals. Since we are amateur rockhounds, I tend to be very quiet on this digest for this very reason. I guess I will have to be more careful next time on how I ask a question. Trinette From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 02:32:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed May 26 01:32:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds References: <40B3FE13.4959@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <001901c442fb$e5e0b570$6402a8c0@axel> Hi guys, isn't a similar technique already in use for hardening glass to make it scratch-proof? The difference on Moh's scale between 2 and 2.5 looks the same as that between 9.5 and 10. In reality, the latter is many times greater. Considering that the upper part of the hardness scale evolves in a logarithmic scale, would 50% harder than 10 be a lot or only just a little in comparison? If you don't know the meaning of the hardness scale, it would seem like those new synthetic diamonds have a hardness of 15 on Moh's scale, which is of course nonsense. Anyone knows what is meant by 50% harder? I would guess that it means that it would take 50% more energy and time to wear off the same amount of matter from the "new" diamonds as it would from the normal ones. But how do you express that in a scale? Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 4:19 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds > Hi Berj, > > If they can make a 'big' "rock" in a day, think of how quickly they > could make a lap or blade that needs little stones. 50% harder means > faster cutting. I wonder how soon the technology will become commercial > and reach the wheels of the average Lapidary. > > Welcome to the list. Interesting post. Thanks! > > Kreigh > > > > > Berj N. Ensanian wrote: > > > > The May 2004 issue of Today's Chemist at Work, page 12, reports on ultrahard > > gem-size artificial diamonds, at least 50% harder than conventional > > diamonds, grown in about a day, by a chemical vapor deposition technique. It > > was done by scientists at the Carnegie Institution's Geophysical Lab in > > Wash., DC, and they published their work in Physica Status Solidi A (2004, > > 201, R25). > > > > Berj > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 06:47:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Wed May 26 05:47:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds Message-ID: <797991FE.39DCC710.02180873@aol.com> As I understand it the CVD work is an outgrowth of the work being done in electronics. CVD films of diamond have high heat and electrical conductivity. Once it was possible to deposit a consistent, and ordered film in micron thicknesses, folks started exploring thicker films. The reason these diamonds are harder is that they are more perfect, lacking the grain boundaries that one sees with solution produced diamonds. But, for grinding, it may be better to have huge numbers of fine-polycrystalline diamonds with sharp edges that fracture and continuously produce new sharp edges. At least, that is the theory behind explosion diamonds which have been available for years. Gene Hartstein Newark DE In a message dated 5/25/2004 10:19:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Kreigh Tomaszewski writes: >Hi Berj, > >If they can make a 'big' "rock" in a day, think of how quickly they >could make a lap or blade that needs little stones. 50% harder means >faster cutting. I wonder how soon the technology will become commercial >and reach the wheels of the average Lapidary. > >Welcome to the list. Interesting post. Thanks! > >Kreigh > > > > >Berj N. Ensanian wrote: >> >> The May 2004 issue of Today's Chemist at Work, page 12, reports on ultrahard >> gem-size artificial diamonds, at least 50% harder than conventional >> diamonds, grown in about a day, by a chemical vapor deposition technique. It >> was done by scientists at the Carnegie Institution's Geophysical Lab in >> Wash., DC, and they published their work in Physica Status Solidi A (2004, >> 201, R25). >> >> Berj >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 07:21:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (William Dicks) Date: Wed May 26 06:21:01 2004 Subject: Fwd: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds Message-ID: Comments from a "non-list member" that I think may add to the thread. Bill Dicks MESTA Board Member --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) message/rfc822 --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 07:33:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (William Dicks) Date: Wed May 26 06:33:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds Message-ID: Comments from a "non-list member" that I think may add to the thread. This is interesting -- I've heard about this claim before, but I don't exactly get it. Hardness is the result of chemical structure/bonding. If there's a distinct difference between the hardness of a traditional diamond and a vapor grown one, then perhaps we've discovered that diamond can occur in two phases (if not another mineral altogether). Clearly SOMETHING is different about the nature of these crystals to account for such a difference in hardness -- what is the cause on an atomic level? Quartz, for example, occurs in two phases (called alpha and beta). But one is stable only at high temperatures and is less commonly collected. I have heard that diamond's bonds are particularly strong and as a result really resist chemical breakdown under surface conditions. Having formed at high T and high P, diamond should be UNSTABLE under surface conditions (Bowen's reaction series!!). But the incredible bond energy makes diamond "metastable"--something that chemically isn't stable but appears to be. Perhaps this "new" diamond is something like that -- a change in the bonding energy between the carbon atoms results in a slightly different arrangement and hardness. The other question is what kind of hardness we're talking about. There's the traditional scratch hardness -- then there's an "indent" hardness. Also possible that somebody could be talking about "strength" (from the standpoint of compression) and not the traditional hardness that we're now thinking about? Art artweinle@comcast.net ====================== Bill Dicks MESTA Board Member From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 09:00:05 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed May 26 08:00:05 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds References: Message-ID: <000f01c44332$10f4f010$6402a8c0@axel> I find Jimmy's "I believe I read somewhere that 50% harder means that it has 50% less missing carbons in the tetrahedral makeup" quite logical. The resistance to wear, wich defines hardness, is in some minerals dependant on orientation. Kyanite is a good example but I heard that diamond is also clearly harder in one direction than in all others. I got this from a diamond polisher who claims that you have to avoid polishing perpendicular to this "hard orientation". I think it has something to do with the number of bonds you have to break to remove a fragment of diamond from the crystal lattice. In that respect Jimmy's contribution makes sense... a perfect crystal of any mineral will be harder than a crystal with many defects. But still, 50% in a logarithmic scale defines as... what exactly? Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Dicks" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 3:30 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds Comments from a "non-list member" that I think may add to the thread. This is interesting -- I've heard about this claim before, but I don't exactly get it. Hardness is the result of chemical structure/bonding. If there's a distinct difference between the hardness of a traditional diamond and a vapor grown one, then perhaps we've discovered that diamond can occur in two phases (if not another mineral altogether). Clearly SOMETHING is different about the nature of these crystals to account for such a difference in hardness -- what is the cause on an atomic level? Quartz, for example, occurs in two phases (called alpha and beta). But one is stable only at high temperatures and is less commonly collected. I have heard that diamond's bonds are particularly strong and as a result really resist chemical breakdown under surface conditions. Having formed at high T and high P, diamond should be UNSTABLE under surface conditions (Bowen's reaction series!!). But the incredible bond energy makes diamond "metastable"--something that chemically isn't stable but appears to be. Perhaps this "new" diamond is something like that -- a change in the bonding energy between the carbon atoms results in a slightly different arrangement and hardness. The other question is what kind of hardness we're talking about. There's the traditional scratch hardness -- then there's an "indent" hardness. Also possible that somebody could be talking about "strength" (from the standpoint of compression) and not the traditional hardness that we're now thinking about? Art artweinle@comcast.net ====================== Bill Dicks MESTA Board Member _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 09:10:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Cliff Jackson) Date: Wed May 26 08:10:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about Quartz found at Crystal Ridge, CA Message-ID: <25442244.1085584177576.JavaMail.root@dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Trinette The exact location is as follows. After you come around the last curve and are behind the ridge keep going up hill. The road will "Y" the small hill in the"Y" at the top is where I found the sample. There was a far amount of digging holes there and this one piece was just laying there. I looked around but did not find any more samples. This whole area has a lot of sites be sure to look on all of the ridge lines. You will see where other people have dug. Good luck. By the way the site at Deep Springs is also very good for quartz and is not that far away if you have time. Regards Cliff -----Original Message----- From: Trinette Chuang Sent: May 25, 2004 10:59 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about Quartz found at Crystal Ridge, CA I am sorry if I came across as Google-illiterate. Google is the first place I always try. I was just hoping that Cliff could describe the specific site in this area where he found his crystals on his last trip, since I am planning to go to this very location this weekend. I would love to look for these green embedded crystals. Since we are amateur rockhounds, I tend to be very quiet on this digest for this very reason. I guess I will have to be more careful next time on how I ask a question. Trinette _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Cliff Jackson From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 10:10:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Wed May 26 09:10:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds Message-ID: I've got a hunch that "hardness" is a concept which becomes more and more complicated as one gets into details like momentum. For example, even ordinary 30-06 ammunition will blow right through some thickness of steel at close range, and the bullets are softer than the steel in the ordinary sense. I have not studied hardness enough to be sure what 50% harder at the top end of the Moh's scale really means. There is always the possibility that it was an initial propaganda statement so as to attract commercial industry interest - businessmen can understand "50% harder", and don't care about logarithmic scales. The Today's Chemist "Update" was ambiguous on what "at least 50% harder than conventional diamonds." means. Also it is not clear what the word "conventional" refers to - natural diamonds, or ordinary artificial diamonds. The Update writer did report the researchers saying that their new ultrahard diamonds broke the measuring (hardness) equipment. One would have to get a hold of the original published article to get a better idea of what was being talked about. A picture (no caption) in the Update shows a faceted crystal, apparently amber in color. The researchers are definitely interested in new cutting tools and diamond-based electronics applications for their discovery. Berj >From: "Axel Emmermann" >Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >To: >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds >Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 10:31:49 +0200 > >Hi guys, > >isn't a similar technique already in use for hardening glass to make it >scratch-proof? > >The difference on Moh's scale between 2 and 2.5 looks the same as that >between 9.5 and 10. In reality, the latter is many times greater. >Considering that the upper part of the hardness scale evolves in a >logarithmic scale, would 50% harder than 10 be a lot or only just a little >in comparison? >If you don't know the meaning of the hardness scale, it would seem like >those new synthetic diamonds have a hardness of 15 on Moh's scale, which is >of course nonsense. >Anyone knows what is meant by 50% harder? I would guess that it means that >it would take 50% more energy and time to wear off the same amount of >matter >from the "new" diamonds as it would from the normal ones. But how do you >express that in a scale? > >Cheers > >Axel > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 4:19 AM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds > > > > Hi Berj, > > > > If they can make a 'big' "rock" in a day, think of how quickly they > > could make a lap or blade that needs little stones. 50% harder means > > faster cutting. I wonder how soon the technology will become commercial > > and reach the wheels of the average Lapidary. > > > > Welcome to the list. Interesting post. Thanks! > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > Berj N. Ensanian wrote: > > > > > > The May 2004 issue of Today's Chemist at Work, page 12, reports on >ultrahard > > > gem-size artificial diamonds, at least 50% harder than conventional > > > diamonds, grown in about a day, by a chemical vapor deposition >technique. It > > > was done by scientists at the Carnegie Institution's Geophysical Lab >in > > > Wash., DC, and they published their work in Physica Status Solidi A >(2004, > > > 201, R25). > > > > > > Berj > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _________________________________________________________________ Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN Premium! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200439ave/direct/01/ From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 10:48:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Richard Trapp) Date: Wed May 26 09:48:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about Quartz found at Crystal Ridge, CA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40B4CA2A.8040606@azgs.az.gov> ahhh, don't do that. just put some soothing salve on your slightly blistered backside and jump back in. I personally like it when people explain where certain sites are. In addition, often there is more than one place in a state with the same name. I swear there are least 15 Sycamore Canyons in just one county here in Arizona. Cyber-space is a scary place, a lot of people are in a hurry, a lot of people (present company excepted, of course) think they know everything and can't understand when others don't..... So don't retreat. Move bravely forward and don't be afraid to extend your middle finger towards the monitor when people aren't nice to you. Trinette Chuang wrote: > I am sorry if I came across as Google-illiterate. Google is the first > place I always try. I was just hoping that Cliff could describe the > specific site in this area where he found his crystals on his last > trip, since I am planning to go to this very location this weekend. I > would love to look for these green embedded crystals. > Since we are amateur rockhounds, I tend to be very quiet on this > digest for this very reason. I guess I will have to be more careful > next time on how I ask a question. > > Trinette > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > -- Rick Trapp Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 11:12:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Nathan C. Martin II) Date: Wed May 26 10:12:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Calling All Lurkers - was Question about Quartz found at Crystal Ridge, CA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20040526125011.02403080@po2.bbn.com> Trinette, Don't be sorry, there was nothing wrong with your question. And in spite of Tim's slightly less than sensitive initial response, you did get a good answer to your questions and I got reminded of a website that I had forgotten to file. I have been on the list for years and have learned that it is a valuable resource. If I have a question, I ask it. Sometimes a list member asks a question that has been answered many times before or could easily be answered by a web search. Usually there will be someone generous enough to answer directly or make a positive suggestion of how to find out. Sometimes you may get a less than generous response simply because someone is having a bad day or doesn't think about the implications of what they just typed; but that is the way it is in any group or family. Don't stop asking questions or offering comments when you have something to say. You do not have to have a degree in mineralogy to participate in and benefit from this mailing list (I certainly don't.) I am sure that there are other lurkers out there who don't often ask questions because they don't want to appear uninformed. Please take a chance and ask your questions anyway. Rest assured that someone else will also benefit from the discussion that follows. Best regards, Nate Martin Lexington, MA At 01:59 AM 5/26/2004, you wrote: >I am sorry if I came across as Google-illiterate. Google is the first >place I always try. I was just hoping that Cliff could describe the >specific site in this area where he found his crystals on his last trip, >since I am planning to go to this very location this weekend. I would >love to look for these green embedded crystals. >Since we are amateur rockhounds, I tend to be very quiet on this digest >for this very reason. I guess I will have to be more careful next time on >how I ask a question. > >Trinette From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 11:24:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed May 26 10:24:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Calling All Lurkers - was Question about Quartz found at Crystal Ridge, CA In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20040526125011.02403080@po2.bbn.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20040526125011.02403080@po2.bbn.com> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040526102109.01fe05d0@mail.spiritone.com> As Trinette explained, the question was worded in such a general way that I bet even Cliff didn't understand what was being asked...being explicit will get you everywhere while being general will get you, well, a website URL. I will go back in my hole now. At 10:11 AM 5/26/2004, you wrote: >Trinette, > >Don't be sorry, there was nothing wrong with your question. And in spite >of Tim's slightly less than sensitive initial response, you did get a good >answer to your questions and I got reminded of a website that I had >forgotten to file. > >I have been on the list for years and have learned that it is a valuable >resource. If I have a question, I ask it. Sometimes a list member asks a >question that has been answered many times before or could easily be >answered by a web search. Usually there will be someone generous enough >to answer directly or make a positive suggestion of how to find >out. Sometimes you may get a less than generous response simply because >someone is having a bad day or doesn't think about the implications of >what they just typed; but that is the way it is in any group or family. > >Don't stop asking questions or offering comments when you have something >to say. You do not have to have a degree in mineralogy to participate in >and benefit from this mailing list (I certainly don't.) > >I am sure that there are other lurkers out there who don't often ask >questions because they don't want to appear uninformed. Please take a >chance and ask your questions anyway. Rest assured that someone else will >also benefit from the discussion that follows. > >Best regards, >Nate Martin >Lexington, MA > >At 01:59 AM 5/26/2004, you wrote: >>I am sorry if I came across as Google-illiterate. Google is the first >>place I always try. I was just hoping that Cliff could describe the >>specific site in this area where he found his crystals on his last trip, >>since I am planning to go to this very location this weekend. I would >>love to look for these green embedded crystals. >>Since we are amateur rockhounds, I tend to be very quiet on this digest >>for this very reason. I guess I will have to be more careful next time >>on how I ask a question. >> >>Trinette > >Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com >Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com >CD of OR, WA, & ID rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD >Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary >Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers >Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale >Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 15:23:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Paul Gilmore) Date: Wed May 26 14:23:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Calling All Lurkers - was Question about Quartz found at Crystal Ridge, CA Message-ID: I agree: ask, ask, ask. And don't be afraid to answer questions either, even if you are just guessing. This is not at all an "experts only" list. Paul Gilmore >From: "Nathan C. Martin II" >Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Subject: [Rockhounds] Calling All Lurkers - was Question about Quartz found >at Crystal Ridge, CA >Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:11:15 -0400 > >Trinette, > >Don't be sorry, there was nothing wrong with your question. And in spite >of Tim's slightly less than sensitive initial response, you did get a good >answer to your questions and I got reminded of a website that I had >forgotten to file. > >I have been on the list for years and have learned that it is a valuable >resource. If I have a question, I ask it. Sometimes a list member asks a >question that has been answered many times before or could easily be >answered by a web search. Usually there will be someone generous enough to >answer directly or make a positive suggestion of how to find out. >Sometimes you may get a less than generous response simply because someone >is having a bad day or doesn't think about the implications of what they >just typed; but that is the way it is in any group or family. > >Don't stop asking questions or offering comments when you have something to >say. You do not have to have a degree in mineralogy to participate in and >benefit from this mailing list (I certainly don't.) > >I am sure that there are other lurkers out there who don't often ask >questions because they don't want to appear uninformed. Please take a >chance and ask your questions anyway. Rest assured that someone else will >also benefit from the discussion that follows. > >Best regards, >Nate Martin >Lexington, MA > >At 01:59 AM 5/26/2004, you wrote: >>I am sorry if I came across as Google-illiterate. Google is the first >>place I always try. I was just hoping that Cliff could describe the >>specific site in this area where he found his crystals on his last trip, >>since I am planning to go to this very location this weekend. I would >>love to look for these green embedded crystals. >>Since we are amateur rockhounds, I tend to be very quiet on this digest >>for this very reason. I guess I will have to be more careful next time on >>how I ask a question. >> >>Trinette > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 16:10:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Wed May 26 15:10:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Calling All Lurkers - was Question about Quartz found atCrystal Ridge, CA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I would like to clarify that, if I may. If someone is just guessing, please say that in your message. :-) I think we all want to hear everyone's opinions and ideas, but we don't want newbies to think that everything they see here is true and fact. If they see someone's guess, but that person doesn't say that it was just a guess, the newbie might take it as fact and start spreading misinformation to their friends and the public. Thanks, Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Paul Gilmore Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 3:23 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Calling All Lurkers - was Question about Quartz found atCrystal Ridge, CA I agree: ask, ask, ask. And don't be afraid to answer questions either, even if you are just guessing. This is not at all an "experts only" list. Paul Gilmore >From: "Nathan C. Martin II" >Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Subject: [Rockhounds] Calling All Lurkers - was Question about Quartz found >at Crystal Ridge, CA >Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:11:15 -0400 > >Trinette, > >Don't be sorry, there was nothing wrong with your question. And in spite >of Tim's slightly less than sensitive initial response, you did get a good >answer to your questions and I got reminded of a website that I had >forgotten to file. > >I have been on the list for years and have learned that it is a valuable >resource. If I have a question, I ask it. Sometimes a list member asks a >question that has been answered many times before or could easily be >answered by a web search. Usually there will be someone generous enough to >answer directly or make a positive suggestion of how to find out. >Sometimes you may get a less than generous response simply because someone >is having a bad day or doesn't think about the implications of what they >just typed; but that is the way it is in any group or family. > >Don't stop asking questions or offering comments when you have something to >say. You do not have to have a degree in mineralogy to participate in and >benefit from this mailing list (I certainly don't.) > >I am sure that there are other lurkers out there who don't often ask >questions because they don't want to appear uninformed. Please take a >chance and ask your questions anyway. Rest assured that someone else will >also benefit from the discussion that follows. > >Best regards, >Nate Martin >Lexington, MA > >At 01:59 AM 5/26/2004, you wrote: >>I am sorry if I came across as Google-illiterate. Google is the first >>place I always try. I was just hoping that Cliff could describe the >>specific site in this area where he found his crystals on his last trip, >>since I am planning to go to this very location this weekend. I would >>love to look for these green embedded crystals. >>Since we are amateur rockhounds, I tend to be very quiet on this digest >>for this very reason. I guess I will have to be more careful next time on >>how I ask a question. >> >>Trinette > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 16:23:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (John Siebel) Date: Wed May 26 15:23:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Calling All Lurkers References: <5.2.0.9.2.20040526125011.02403080@po2.bbn.com> Message-ID: <004f01c4435e$acee4620$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Trinette, Don't let this guy ruin your day. If everything we needed to know was on Google then this list wouldn't exist. It's all about sharing knowledge, experience and the joys of rockhounding. Ain't no stupid questions (and yours certainly wasn't) - only the occasional rude response. John From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 16:45:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (jaybates) Date: Wed May 26 15:45:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Calling All Lurkers References: <5.2.0.9.2.20040526125011.02403080@po2.bbn.com> <004f01c4435e$acee4620$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <000e01c44373$484814c0$6501a8c0@cable.rcn.com> No harm no foul. He did try Google before posting a question. There are many that post questions without first trying Google and I can understand the frustration of some responders after awhile. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Siebel" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Calling All Lurkers > Trinette, > > Don't let this guy ruin your day. If everything we needed to know was on > Google then this list wouldn't exist. It's all about sharing knowledge, > experience and the joys of rockhounding. Ain't no stupid questions (and > yours certainly wasn't) - only the occasional rude response. > > John > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 17:07:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Dave Bese) Date: Wed May 26 16:07:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Google's nothing Message-ID: www.nationalatlas.gov This is the official USGS map site; your taxes really at work! Imagine 7 1/2 degree maps that only cost . . .nothing. You can even print them 11 x 17 if you have the capacity. Scale them up or down; pan the areas. I love it! --- David Bese The Rainforest Hippie Pt. Orchard, Wa. "There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some reason in madness." "Turbulence is life force. It is opportunity. Let's love turbulence and use it for change." "Every time you don't follow your inner guidance, you feel a loss of energy, loss of power, a sense of spiritual deadness." ____________________________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 17:51:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed May 26 16:51:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Google's nothing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040526165001.01fee4a8@mail.spiritone.com> If you know where something is, then that site is great. If you don't, it's useless...IMO... At 04:05 PM 5/26/2004, you wrote: >www.nationalatlas.gov > >This is the official USGS map site; your taxes really at work! Imagine 7 >1/2 degree maps that only cost . . .nothing. You can even print them 11 x >17 if you have the capacity. Scale them up or down; pan the areas. I love it! > >--- >David Bese >The Rainforest Hippie >Pt. Orchard, Wa. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of OR, WA, & ID rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 18:32:59 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Wed May 26 17:32:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ruggle's Mine Message-ID: I am a teacher in Maine, and was thinking about taking my class to Ruggle's Mine, but came across your message - I'm wondering if your trip was more expensive because of something that went wrong, or if it is actually expensive to go to the Mine? Do you have any suggestions of another mine that we could go to that might be a better experience for them? It's for a group of middle to high school aged kids. Thanks for any help you can offer me Melanie LaFrinea --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 19:28:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Powell) Date: Wed May 26 18:28:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ruggle's Mine References: Message-ID: <000d01c44389$c056c8b0$3c8869d1@6663r01> Dear Melanie and Rockhounds, My wife and I subscribe to Yankee magazine which has an ad for Ruggles mine. Adult admission is now $17! Children about $8 (trying to remember from the top of my head.) I visited the mine about 20 years ago and even then didn't find much that wowed me. I suppose those with the UV equipment, hammers, chisels, knowledge and time could find something of value, but I'm not sure a troop of children would feel very rewarded by the visit. Of course, Grafton, NH is a gorgeous chunk of earth and the view of the White Mountains is spectacular. Unfortunately, I can not suggest any better option in the NH mountains. Perhaps others closer to the area can be more helpful there. Just my 2 cents worth. Thanks to everyone who participates in the list. You're great. Darryl Powell Manchester, New York ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:58 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Ruggle's Mine > I am a teacher in Maine, and was thinking about taking my class to Ruggle's > Mine, but came across your message - I'm wondering if your trip was more > expensive because of something that went wrong, or if it is actually expensive to go > to the Mine? Do you have any suggestions of another mine that we could go to > that might be a better experience for them? It's for a group of middle to high > school aged kids. > Thanks for any help you can offer me > Melanie LaFrinea > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 19:58:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Van) Date: Wed May 26 18:58:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ruggle's Mine References: Message-ID: <001401c4438d$ecd8fdf0$b6fb4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> What town are you located in? Maybe there's a close enough alternative in Maine for your purposes? Van ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:58 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Ruggle's Mine > I am a teacher in Maine, and was thinking about taking my class to Ruggle's > Mine, but came across your message - I'm wondering if your trip was more > expensive because of something that went wrong, or if it is actually expensive to go > to the Mine? Do you have any suggestions of another mine that we could go to > that might be a better experience for them? It's for a group of middle to high > school aged kids. > Thanks for any help you can offer me > Melanie LaFrinea > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 20:05:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Van) Date: Wed May 26 19:05:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Who is this Russian Rockhound in 1820's? References: Message-ID: <002801c4438e$df1b93c0$b6fb4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> This list has been a great resource in the past. Here's a real test. In the mid to late 1820's, perhaps early 1830's, the Russian consul to the USA, a Mr. Cramer, went to Mount Mica in Paris, Maine and collected a bunch of tourmaline and other goodies with the Austrian consul Baron Alois Freiherr von Lederer. 1. What was Cramer's full name? 2. What were his birth and death dates? 3. What were Lederer's birth and death dates? Have haunted google, but have yet to score. You'll get your name in the acknowledgements in the up-coming history of Mount Mica. Best Regards, Van From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 21:01:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Wed May 26 20:01:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ruggle's Mine Message-ID: <19e.24c757d7.2de6b3bc@aol.com> In a message dated 5/26/2004 8:33:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, PLafrinea@aol.com writes: I am a teacher in Maine, and was thinking about taking my class to Ruggle's Mine, but came across your message - I'm wondering if your trip was more expensive because of something that went wrong, or if it is actually expensive to go to the Mine? Do you have any suggestions of another mine that we could go to that might be a better experience for them? It's for a group of middle to high school aged kids. Thanks for any help you can offer me Melanie LaFrinea I'd like to add my vote that the mine is very overpriced for what you get out of it. I'd heard about the place for years. It has a great history and the brochure looks fantastic. It doesn't mention prices. We drove all the way to the mine, no small task, it's not on any main route. When I found out the admission price, the only thing that kept us from leaving was the fact we'd spent so long getting there. You really can't see much of the mine until after you've paid. After we went through the mine, I got a very sharp "I wouldn't have spent the money" from my wife. Two adults and two kids was pushing $50 even a couple years ago. The view from the rock shop parking lot is fantastic, there's no shortage of mica and a few other minerals but nothing of any real interest considering the price and drive. Anything of any real interest has been cleaned out by other collectors long ago. The same is true of anything easily removed. I had some serious digging equipment in the car and didn't even bother to dig it out. If you really want to go, it might be worthwhile to contact them about group rates though. I'm unaware of their group prices. There's a relatively recent (maybe 3-4 years old) book on NH minerals. I have a copy SOMEWHERE but don't remember the name, something about Rainbow. Maybe someone on the list can give help with the name and contacting the author. The author is an avid collector in the area and it might be worthwhile speaking with him for suggestions for a school field trip. The impression I got of the area is that there are frequently some phenomenal collecting areas exposed during construction of buildings but only available for very short periods. If you could link in to one of those, the kids could collect something from a location very few others would have. When we were up there everyone was abuzz about giant quartz crystals from a construction site. Hope this helps... Dan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 21:03:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed May 26 20:03:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds References: <40B3FE13.4959@Tomaszewski.net> <001901c442fb$e5e0b570$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: <40B55A2C.7828@Tomaszewski.net> Walter Schumann's Handbook of Rocks and Minerals gives a comparison between Mohs and Absolute Hardness that is also available from many other sources -- it just happened to be the closest to me at the moment. M1 A 0.00 M2 A 1.25 M3 A 4.5 M4 A 5.0 M5 A 6.5 M6 A 37 M7 A 120 M8 A 175 M9 A 1,000 M10 A 140,000 Absolute Hardness is also known as Grinding Hardness, and is a linear scale in my understanding; the Mohs scale is a relative scale. I've often wondered how well Mohs actually divides the minerals...are the number of minerals between, say, 3 and 4 roughly the same as between, say, 7 and 8? Does it make a difference if you use half ranges like 5.5 to 6.5? And if you ranked all the accepted minerals by their (absolute) hardness and tried to split it equally, what minerals would appear as the markers in the new scale? Besides Diamond, I wonder if any of the new ones would match Mohs? Since the article is by 'scientists', and they tend to use the absolute scale when talking about material hardness, I suspect the 50% harder implies an absolute value around 210,000 for Mohs 10.5. Removing the impurities (nitrogen appears to be the most common in diamond) from diamonds should significantly increase the hardness by reducing strains in the crystal lattice. I wonder if the optical properties are different from natural diamond? Kreigh Axel Emmermann wrote: > The difference on Moh's scale between 2 and 2.5 looks the same as that > between 9.5 and 10. In reality, the latter is many times greater. > Considering that the upper part of the hardness scale evolves in a > logarithmic scale, would 50% harder than 10 be a lot or only just a little > in comparison? > If you don't know the meaning of the hardness scale, it would seem like > those new synthetic diamonds have a hardness of 15 on Moh's scale, which is > of course nonsense. > Anyone knows what is meant by 50% harder? I would guess that it means that > it would take 50% more energy and time to wear off the same amount of matter > from the "new" diamonds as it would from the normal ones. But how do you > express that in a scale? > > Cheers > > Axel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 4:19 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds > > > Hi Berj, > > > > If they can make a 'big' "rock" in a day, think of how quickly they > > could make a lap or blade that needs little stones. 50% harder means > > faster cutting. I wonder how soon the technology will become commercial > > and reach the wheels of the average Lapidary. > > > > Welcome to the list. Interesting post. Thanks! > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > Berj N. Ensanian wrote: > > > > > > The May 2004 issue of Today's Chemist at Work, page 12, reports on > ultrahard > > > gem-size artificial diamonds, at least 50% harder than conventional > > > diamonds, grown in about a day, by a chemical vapor deposition > technique. It > > > was done by scientists at the Carnegie Institution's Geophysical Lab in > > > Wash., DC, and they published their work in Physica Status Solidi A > (2004, > > > 201, R25). > > > > > > Berj From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 21:20:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Wed May 26 20:20:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds Message-ID: Kreigh You got me to thinking - what is the hardness of a neutron star? :) Berj >From: Kreigh Tomaszewski >Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds >Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 23:08:11 -0400 > >Walter Schumann's Handbook of Rocks and Minerals gives a comparison >between Mohs and Absolute Hardness that is also available from many >other sources -- it just happened to be the closest to me at the moment. > >M1 A 0.00 >M2 A 1.25 >M3 A 4.5 >M4 A 5.0 >M5 A 6.5 >M6 A 37 >M7 A 120 >M8 A 175 >M9 A 1,000 >M10 A 140,000 > >Absolute Hardness is also known as Grinding Hardness, and is a linear >scale in my understanding; the Mohs scale is a relative scale. > >I've often wondered how well Mohs actually divides the minerals...are >the number of minerals between, say, 3 and 4 roughly the same as >between, say, 7 and 8? Does it make a difference if you use half ranges >like 5.5 to 6.5? > >And if you ranked all the accepted minerals by their (absolute) hardness >and tried to split it equally, what minerals would appear as the markers >in the new scale? Besides Diamond, I wonder if any of the new ones >would match Mohs? > >Since the article is by 'scientists', and they tend to use the absolute >scale when talking about material hardness, I suspect the 50% harder >implies an absolute value around 210,000 for Mohs 10.5. > >Removing the impurities (nitrogen appears to be the most common in >diamond) from diamonds should significantly increase the hardness by >reducing strains in the crystal lattice. I wonder if the optical >properties are different from natural diamond? > >Kreigh > > > > > >Axel Emmermann wrote: > > The difference on Moh's scale between 2 and 2.5 looks the same as that > > between 9.5 and 10. In reality, the latter is many times greater. > > Considering that the upper part of the hardness scale evolves in a > > logarithmic scale, would 50% harder than 10 be a lot or only just a >little > > in comparison? > > If you don't know the meaning of the hardness scale, it would seem like > > those new synthetic diamonds have a hardness of 15 on Moh's scale, which >is > > of course nonsense. > > Anyone knows what is meant by 50% harder? I would guess that it means >that > > it would take 50% more energy and time to wear off the same amount of >matter > > from the "new" diamonds as it would from the normal ones. But how do you > > express that in a scale? > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 4:19 AM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds > > > > > Hi Berj, > > > > > > If they can make a 'big' "rock" in a day, think of how quickly they > > > could make a lap or blade that needs little stones. 50% harder means > > > faster cutting. I wonder how soon the technology will become >commercial > > > and reach the wheels of the average Lapidary. > > > > > > Welcome to the list. Interesting post. Thanks! > > > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Berj N. Ensanian wrote: > > > > > > > > The May 2004 issue of Today's Chemist at Work, page 12, reports on > > ultrahard > > > > gem-size artificial diamonds, at least 50% harder than conventional > > > > diamonds, grown in about a day, by a chemical vapor deposition > > technique. It > > > > was done by scientists at the Carnegie Institution's Geophysical Lab >in > > > > Wash., DC, and they published their work in Physica Status Solidi A > > (2004, > > > > 201, R25). > > > > > > > > Berj >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _________________________________________________________________ Learn to simplify your finances and your life in Streamline Your Life from MSN Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0405streamline.armx From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 21:30:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Wed May 26 20:30:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] THE ULTITE ROCK?... Message-ID: <6.2a3b5188.2de6ba8a@aol.com> I have a question. Being that this list is diverse and most interesting,.. I was wondering,... what do people of the list think of being the "ULTIMATE ROCK"? Of course there's the obvious. Gold, diamonds, U know.. the good stuff. I'm mainly interested in everyones collections. Rocks the you love the most. This might be a good way to find some more favorites I may not know of. I'm limited to nothing more than playing in the sand here on the coast. No rocks at all. Anyone? Thanks, Kevin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 21:49:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Wed May 26 20:49:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Location Query Message-ID: <114.334cb80c.2de6bf0d@aol.com> MinDat lists the following location: M-120, Springfield, Lane County, Oregon Mineral List: Analcime, Calcite, Chabazite, Copper, Heulandite, Mesolite, Nontronite, Stilbite Thomsonite I live near Springfield, in Lane County and no one I've talked to has ever heard of the place. Where is it??? Directions? T. McGinnis --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 21:50:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed May 26 20:50:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Who is this Russian Rockhound in 1820's? References: <002801c4438e$df1b93c0$b6fb4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> Message-ID: <40B5652F.320D@Tomaszewski.net> Van wrote: > > This list has been a great resource in the past. Here's a real test. > > In the mid to late 1820's, perhaps early 1830's, the Russian consul to the > USA, a Mr. Cramer, went to Mount Mica in Paris, Maine and collected a bunch > of tourmaline and other goodies with the Austrian consul Baron Alois > Freiherr von Lederer. > > 1. What was Cramer's full name? > > 2. What were his birth and death dates? > > 3. What were Lederer's birth and death dates? > > Have haunted google, but have yet to score. You'll get your name in the > acknowledgements in the up-coming history of Mount Mica. > > Best Regards, Van No luck with Dogpile.com either. Have you tried the common genealogy sites? Where did you find the details you know? Kreigh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 21:50:46 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Wed May 26 20:50:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] THE ULTITE ROCK?... Message-ID: The Philosopher's Stone for me! Berj >From: Paintricks@aol.com >Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Subject: [Rockhounds] THE ULTITE ROCK?... >Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 23:29:14 EDT > >I have a question. > Being that this list is diverse and most interesting,.. >I was wondering,... what do people of the list think of being the "ULTIMATE >ROCK"? Of course there's the obvious. Gold, diamonds, U know.. the good >stuff. > I'm mainly interested in everyones collections. Rocks the you love the >most. > This might be a good way to find some more favorites I may not know of. >I'm limited to nothing more than playing in the sand here on the coast. No >rocks >at all. > Anyone? >Thanks, > Kevin > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 21:54:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Trinette Chuang) Date: Wed May 26 20:54:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Calling All Lurkers Message-ID: <513925E6-AF91-11D8-ABC6-000A956EE112@cox.net> Cliff, thanks for the great site info. And thanks everyone for the encouragement. I guess being a stay-at-home mom to a 3 yr old, I tend to ask quick, generalized questions. I need to practice my "adult conversation". I am sure you all will hear from me again. Trinette From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 22:11:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Dan Weinrich) Date: Wed May 26 21:11:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Location Query References: <114.334cb80c.2de6bf0d@aol.com> Message-ID: <004e01c443a0$630aff70$6401a8c0@S0029989181> Tschernich, in Zeolites of the World, gives a couple of localities in or near Springfield. One is noted as: the vesicular olivine basalt flows, north of Springfield, Lane Co., Oregon. He refers to Kleck (1960, 1972). The 1960 paper is an unpublished Master's Thesis at the University of Oregon. The 1972 paper is in "The Ore Bin", State of Oregon Geology and Mineral Industries. This could be open to a lot of possibilities. The other that he notes is: New Springfield Butte quarry, Springfield, Lane Co., Oregon. He mentions analcime to 2.5 cm, good mesolite, etc. Hopefully you can track this down to the exact location of the quarry, is collecting possible, etc. Hope that this helps! Dan Weinrich http://www.danweinrich.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 10:48 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Location Query > MinDat lists the following location: > M-120, Springfield, Lane County, Oregon > Mineral List: > Analcime, Calcite, Chabazite, Copper, Heulandite, Mesolite, Nontronite, > Stilbite > Thomsonite > I live near Springfield, in Lane County and no one I've talked to has ever > heard of the place. Where is it??? Directions? > > T. McGinnis > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 22:15:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed May 26 21:15:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds References: Message-ID: <40B56B33.30C3@Tomaszewski.net> Berj, There may be a couple list members who might be able to provide an answer (I'm avoiding names because I don't want to put anyone on the spot), but I couldn't find it. It may not be known/computed. Good question! I wish I had an answer. Kreigh P.S., As recently as Monday this week it was pointed out to me that many rockhounds were also interested in astronomy -- look down, look up -- welcome to the group. Berj N. Ensanian wrote: > > Kreigh > > You got me to thinking - what is the hardness of a neutron star? > > :) > > Berj > > >From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > >Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds > >Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 23:08:11 -0400 > > > >Walter Schumann's Handbook of Rocks and Minerals gives a comparison > >between Mohs and Absolute Hardness that is also available from many > >other sources -- it just happened to be the closest to me at the moment. > > > >M1 A 0.00 > >M2 A 1.25 > >M3 A 4.5 > >M4 A 5.0 > >M5 A 6.5 > >M6 A 37 > >M7 A 120 > >M8 A 175 > >M9 A 1,000 > >M10 A 140,000 > > > >Absolute Hardness is also known as Grinding Hardness, and is a linear > >scale in my understanding; the Mohs scale is a relative scale. > > > >I've often wondered how well Mohs actually divides the minerals...are > >the number of minerals between, say, 3 and 4 roughly the same as > >between, say, 7 and 8? Does it make a difference if you use half ranges > >like 5.5 to 6.5? > > > >And if you ranked all the accepted minerals by their (absolute) hardness > >and tried to split it equally, what minerals would appear as the markers > >in the new scale? Besides Diamond, I wonder if any of the new ones > >would match Mohs? > > > >Since the article is by 'scientists', and they tend to use the absolute > >scale when talking about material hardness, I suspect the 50% harder > >implies an absolute value around 210,000 for Mohs 10.5. > > > >Removing the impurities (nitrogen appears to be the most common in > >diamond) from diamonds should significantly increase the hardness by > >reducing strains in the crystal lattice. I wonder if the optical > >properties are different from natural diamond? > > > >Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > > >Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > The difference on Moh's scale between 2 and 2.5 looks the same as that > > > between 9.5 and 10. In reality, the latter is many times greater. > > > Considering that the upper part of the hardness scale evolves in a > > > logarithmic scale, would 50% harder than 10 be a lot or only just a > >little > > > in comparison? > > > If you don't know the meaning of the hardness scale, it would seem like > > > those new synthetic diamonds have a hardness of 15 on Moh's scale, which > >is > > > of course nonsense. > > > Anyone knows what is meant by 50% harder? I would guess that it means > >that > > > it would take 50% more energy and time to wear off the same amount of > >matter > > > from the "new" diamonds as it would from the normal ones. But how do you > > > express that in a scale? > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > Axel > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > > > To: > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 4:19 AM > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds > > > > > > > Hi Berj, > > > > > > > > If they can make a 'big' "rock" in a day, think of how quickly they > > > > could make a lap or blade that needs little stones. 50% harder means > > > > faster cutting. I wonder how soon the technology will become > >commercial > > > > and reach the wheels of the average Lapidary. > > > > > > > > Welcome to the list. Interesting post. Thanks! > > > > > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Berj N. Ensanian wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The May 2004 issue of Today's Chemist at Work, page 12, reports on > > > ultrahard > > > > > gem-size artificial diamonds, at least 50% harder than conventional > > > > > diamonds, grown in about a day, by a chemical vapor deposition > > > technique. It > > > > > was done by scientists at the Carnegie Institution's Geophysical Lab > >in > > > > > Wash., DC, and they published their work in Physica Status Solidi A > > > (2004, > > > > > 201, R25). > > > > > > > > > > Berj From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 22:16:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Wed May 26 21:16:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] THE ULTITE ROCK?... Message-ID: In a message dated 5/26/04 8:30:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Paintricks@aol.com writes: . Rocks the you love the most. One of the things I've learned to love is the ambiguity of rock names. For example, what is an agate? Some people say an agate is a 'layered stone' but not all layered stone is an agate. And one of the most famous agates, the Montana agate, doesn't have layers. Then there is jasp-agate. I also love jade. The nomenclature for jade can be very specific and scientific or it can be very vague. A friend said the Chinese call a lot of green stones jade even though they know the two types of jade, jadeite and nephrite. Some Jade is interesting because people argue over whether it is jade or not. A few years ago people started selling white turquoise, turquoise with a copper deficiency. But turquoise is defined by copper. Without copper it is something else. And that is what I love about rocks, not a specific type of rock but the combination of precision and confusion that surrounds them. And you can find them anywhere. The town where I live use the coolist gravel in the alleys -- mostly jasper in dozens of colors. I just love rocks, any rock. Grant Johnston, Chico, CA --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 22:39:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Dave Bese) Date: Wed May 26 21:39:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] National Atlas and Tim Message-ID: If you know where something is at it's great; if you don't . . . I'm a bit confused. If you have a location with USAtlas; you can find the maps. If you do not have a location name? Kinda a bit redundant? The idea behind it is to put a map on the face of a name. With the site you can enter a site name and get the map location. --- David Bese The Rainforest Hippie Pt. Orchard, Wa. "There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some reason in madness." "Turbulence is life force. It is opportunity. Let's love turbulence and use it for change." "Every time you don't follow your inner guidance, you feel a loss of energy, loss of power, a sense of spiritual deadness." ____________________________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 23:00:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Carol J. Bova) Date: Wed May 26 22:00:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Who is this Russian Rockhound in 1820's? In-Reply-To: <002801c4438e$df1b93c0$b6fb4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> References: <002801c4438e$df1b93c0$b6fb4342@nathanqa8gl7gx> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040526213601.0343e9d0@pop.mindspring.com> Hello! Found a couple of references that might lead to more info. Maybe someone on= =20 the list can pick it up from here. I know very little Italian.. but I bolded the section that seems to fit:=20 (the original page is offline now.. but I copied this from the Google= cache... Cramer, Fr=E9d=E9ri= c=20 Auguste - [=20 Translate=20 this page ] 02/10/00. No 5 Cramer, Fr=E9d=E9ric Auguste. 27.10.1795 Nyon, 14.12.1855 Ginevra, rif., di Ginevra, naturalizzato franc. nel 1817. Figlio ... www.snl.ch/dhs/externe/protect/textes/I7218.html - 4k - Supplemental Result= =20 -=20 Cached= =20 -=20 Similar=20 pages [=20 More=20 results from www.snl.ch ] =3D http://www.google.com/search?hl=3Den&lr=3D&ie=3DUTF-8&q=3D+site:www.snl.ch+F= r%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric-Auguste+Cramer Cramer, Fr=E9d=E9ric Auguste nato 27.10.1795 Nyon, morto 14.12.1855 Ginevra, rif., di Ginevra, naturalizzato franc. nel 1817. Figlio= =20 di Louis-Gabriel, esiliato da Ginevra all'epoca della rivoluzione. sposato/a con Fran=E7oise-Josephine Martin, figlia di Paul. Fu membro delle Guardie=20 d'onore franc. durante la campagna di Lipsia nel 1813. Ottenne la licenza=20 in diritto all'Univ. di Strasburgo (1818) ed esercit=F2 la professione di=20 avvocato nella stessa citt=E0; fu inoltre sostituto procuratore generale= alla=20 corte reale di Colmar (1820-24). Tornato a Ginevra nel 1824, fece carriera= =20 nella giudicatura poi nella politica: fu membro del Consiglio=20 rappresentativo (1825-31), del Consiglio di Stato (dal 1831), da dove=20 dimission=F2 nel 1843; fu inoltre syndic di Ginevra (1840-41), deputato al= =20 Gran Consiglio ginevrino (1842-50) e delegato alla Dieta (1828, 1839,=20 1842). Conservatore, fu un sostenitore del "progresso graduale"=20 preconizzato dal syndic Jean-Jacques Rigaud. Archivi -Fondo Cramer e fondo Thellusson presso AEG Bibliografia - M. Cramer, =ABF.-A. Cramer (1795-1855)=BB, in Bulletin de l'Institut= national=20 genevois, 55, 1952, 131-151 Barbara Roth/pcr ---------- =A9 DSS: Tutti i diritti d'autore di questa pubblicazione elettronica sono= =20 riservati al Dizionario Storico della Svizzera, Berna. I testi pubblicati=20 su supporto elettronico sono soggetti alla stessa regolamentazione in=20 vigore per i testi stampati. " =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D And this on Von Lederer... perhaps someone at the Yale Library could help=20 further? "In 1843, Yale purchased a collection of American minerals assembled by=20 Baron Alois J. X. von Lederer, the Austrian Consul-General to the United=20 States (d.1842). This collection contained 3,000 specimens which Lederer=20 had collected himself or exchanged with the noted mineralogists and=20 naturalists of the time. Many of these specimens have been identified in=20 the collection by the labels used by Lederer." http://www.peabody.yale.edu/collections/min/History.html Best of luck with your project Van! Carol At 07:03 PM 5/26/2004, you wrote: >This list has been a great resource in the past. Here's a real test. > >In the mid to late 1820's, perhaps early 1830's, the Russian consul to the >USA, a Mr. Cramer, went to Mount Mica in Paris, Maine and collected a bunch >of tourmaline and other goodies with the Austrian consul Baron Alois >Freiherr von Lederer. > >1. What was Cramer's full name? > >2. What were his birth and death dates? > >3. What were Lederer's birth and death dates? > >Have haunted google, but have yet to score. You'll get your name in the >acknowledgements in the up-coming history of Mount Mica. > >Best Regards, Van --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 23:14:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Wed May 26 22:14:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds Message-ID: One can imagine two neutron stars on a collision course: a cosmic Moh's test!! >From: Kreigh Tomaszewski >Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds >Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 00:21:00 -0400 > >Berj, > >There may be a couple list members who might be able to provide an >answer (I'm avoiding names because I don't want to put anyone on the >spot), but I couldn't find it. > >It may not be known/computed. > >Good question! I wish I had an answer. > >Kreigh > >P.S., As recently as Monday this week it was pointed out to me that many >rockhounds were also interested in astronomy -- look down, look up -- >welcome to the group. > > > > > >Berj N. Ensanian wrote: > > > > Kreigh > > > > You got me to thinking - what is the hardness of a neutron star? > > > > :) > > > > Berj > > > > >From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > > >Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds > > >Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 23:08:11 -0400 > > > > > >Walter Schumann's Handbook of Rocks and Minerals gives a comparison > > >between Mohs and Absolute Hardness that is also available from many > > >other sources -- it just happened to be the closest to me at the >moment. > > > > > >M1 A 0.00 > > >M2 A 1.25 > > >M3 A 4.5 > > >M4 A 5.0 > > >M5 A 6.5 > > >M6 A 37 > > >M7 A 120 > > >M8 A 175 > > >M9 A 1,000 > > >M10 A 140,000 > > > > > >Absolute Hardness is also known as Grinding Hardness, and is a linear > > >scale in my understanding; the Mohs scale is a relative scale. > > > > > >I've often wondered how well Mohs actually divides the minerals...are > > >the number of minerals between, say, 3 and 4 roughly the same as > > >between, say, 7 and 8? Does it make a difference if you use half ranges > > >like 5.5 to 6.5? > > > > > >And if you ranked all the accepted minerals by their (absolute) >hardness > > >and tried to split it equally, what minerals would appear as the >markers > > >in the new scale? Besides Diamond, I wonder if any of the new ones > > >would match Mohs? > > > > > >Since the article is by 'scientists', and they tend to use the absolute > > >scale when talking about material hardness, I suspect the 50% harder > > >implies an absolute value around 210,000 for Mohs 10.5. > > > > > >Removing the impurities (nitrogen appears to be the most common in > > >diamond) from diamonds should significantly increase the hardness by > > >reducing strains in the crystal lattice. I wonder if the optical > > >properties are different from natural diamond? > > > > > >Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > The difference on Moh's scale between 2 and 2.5 looks the same as >that > > > > between 9.5 and 10. In reality, the latter is many times greater. > > > > Considering that the upper part of the hardness scale evolves in a > > > > logarithmic scale, would 50% harder than 10 be a lot or only just a > > >little > > > > in comparison? > > > > If you don't know the meaning of the hardness scale, it would seem >like > > > > those new synthetic diamonds have a hardness of 15 on Moh's scale, >which > > >is > > > > of course nonsense. > > > > Anyone knows what is meant by 50% harder? I would guess that it >means > > >that > > > > it would take 50% more energy and time to wear off the same amount >of > > >matter > > > > from the "new" diamonds as it would from the normal ones. But how do >you > > > > express that in a scale? > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > Axel > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 4:19 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds > > > > > > > > > Hi Berj, > > > > > > > > > > If they can make a 'big' "rock" in a day, think of how quickly >they > > > > > could make a lap or blade that needs little stones. 50% harder >means > > > > > faster cutting. I wonder how soon the technology will become > > >commercial > > > > > and reach the wheels of the average Lapidary. > > > > > > > > > > Welcome to the list. Interesting post. Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Berj N. Ensanian wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The May 2004 issue of Today's Chemist at Work, page 12, reports >on > > > > ultrahard > > > > > > gem-size artificial diamonds, at least 50% harder than >conventional > > > > > > diamonds, grown in about a day, by a chemical vapor deposition > > > > technique. It > > > > > > was done by scientists at the Carnegie Institution's Geophysical >Lab > > >in > > > > > > Wash., DC, and they published their work in Physica Status >Solidi A > > > > (2004, > > > > > > 201, R25). > > > > > > > > > > > > Berj >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Wed May 26 23:55:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Horst Windisch) Date: Wed May 26 22:55:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Book on Alpine Quartz Message-ID: <001c01c443ac$e210bc40$3e4227c4@horstspc> Hi List, A collector friend of mine, who is mad about quartz, has inquired if anybody knows of a book (published in English) on quartz from the Alps (Central Europe). We are aware that "Lapis" has published an "extra Lapis" entitled "Kristall Alpin" (in German) and from inquiries I have made, this publication will only be translated into English either in 2005 or 2006. Any help would be appreciated. Greetings, Horst From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 27 00:18:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed May 26 23:18:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] astronomy and rockhounds [was ultrahard diamonds] In-Reply-To: <40B56B33.30C3@Tomaszewski.net> References: <40B56B33.30C3@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20040526202848.02fb1220@mail.aloha.net> I know of several rockounds who are interested in astronomy, and some astronomers who are rockhounds (particularly in my case, my husband). Anyone want to announce their interest in astronomy, or point out other notable astronomy/rockhound connections? Aloha, Kitty At 06:21 PM 5/26/2004, Kreigh wrote: > As recently as Monday this week it was pointed out to me that many >rockhounds were also interested in astronomy -- look down, look up -- >welcome to the group. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 27 01:52:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (teresa) Date: Thu May 27 00:52:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Who is this Russian Rockhound in 1820's? Message-ID: <20611222.1085644289702.JavaMail.root@thecount.psp.pas.earthlink.net> When you are doing google searches, frequently the foreign pages that come up for links...have a button that says 'translate this'. I've started checking those out lately and its way cool! and excellently helpful (especially to my 'little bit of french and spanish' Try it on those pages you checked for this and see if it's helpful :) Teresa -----Original Message----- From: "Carol J. Bova" Sent: May 26, 2004 10:03 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Who is this Russian Rockhound in 1820's? Hello! Found a couple of references that might lead to more info. Maybe someone on the list can pick it up from here. I know very little Italian.. but I bolded the section that seems to fit: (the original page is offline now.. but I copied this from the Google cache... Cramer, Frédéric Auguste - [ Translate this page ] 02/10/00. No 5 Cramer, Frédéric Auguste. 27.10.1795 Nyon, 14.12.1855 Ginevra, rif., di Ginevra, naturalizzato franc. nel 1817. Figlio ... www.snl.ch/dhs/externe/protect/textes/I7218.html - 4k - Supplemental Result - Cached - Similar pages [ More results from www.snl.ch ] = http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=+site:www.snl.ch+Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric-Auguste+Cramer Cramer, Frédéric Auguste nato 27.10.1795 Nyon, morto 14.12.1855 Ginevra, rif., di Ginevra, naturalizzato franc. nel 1817. Figlio di Louis-Gabriel, esiliato da Ginevra all'epoca della rivoluzione. sposato/a con Françoise-Josephine Martin, figlia di Paul. Fu membro delle Guardie d'onore franc. durante la campagna di Lipsia nel 1813. Ottenne la licenza in diritto all'Univ. di Strasburgo (1818) ed esercitò la professione di avvocato nella stessa città; fu inoltre sostituto procuratore generale alla corte reale di Colmar (1820-24). Tornato a Ginevra nel 1824, fece carriera nella giudicatura poi nella politica: fu membro del Consiglio rappresentativo (1825-31), del Consiglio di Stato (dal 1831), da dove dimissionò nel 1843; fu inoltre syndic di Ginevra (1840-41), deputato al Gran Consiglio ginevrino (1842-50) e delegato alla Dieta (1828, 1839, 1842). Conservatore, fu un sostenitore del "progresso graduale" preconizzato dal syndic Jean-Jacques Rigaud. Archivi -Fondo Cramer e fondo Thellusson presso AEG Bibliografia - M. Cramer, «F.-A. Cramer (1795-1855)», in Bulletin de l'Institut national genevois, 55, 1952, 131-151 Barbara Roth/pcr ---------- © DSS: Tutti i diritti d'autore di questa pubblicazione elettronica sono riservati al Dizionario Storico della Svizzera, Berna. I testi pubblicati su supporto elettronico sono soggetti alla stessa regolamentazione in vigore per i testi stampati. " ======= And this on Von Lederer... perhaps someone at the Yale Library could help further? "In 1843, Yale purchased a collection of American minerals assembled by Baron Alois J. X. von Lederer, the Austrian Consul-General to the United States (d.1842). This collection contained 3,000 specimens which Lederer had collected himself or exchanged with the noted mineralogists and naturalists of the time. Many of these specimens have been identified in the collection by the labels used by Lederer." http://www.peabody.yale.edu/collections/min/History.html Best of luck with your project Van! Carol At 07:03 PM 5/26/2004, you wrote: >This list has been a great resource in the past. Here's a real test. > >In the mid to late 1820's, perhaps early 1830's, the Russian consul to the >USA, a Mr. Cramer, went to Mount Mica in Paris, Maine and collected a bunch >of tourmaline and other goodies with the Austrian consul Baron Alois >Freiherr von Lederer. > >1. What was Cramer's full name? > >2. What were his birth and death dates? > >3. What were Lederer's birth and death dates? > >Have haunted google, but have yet to score. You'll get your name in the >acknowledgements in the up-coming history of Mount Mica. > >Best Regards, Van --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 27 03:33:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu May 27 02:33:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds References: <40B56B33.30C3@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <007201c443cd$97e4afc0$6402a8c0@axel> Hi Berj, some of us stumble into deep pits while gazing at the skies and looking for minerals all at the same time... About your question (I think this is the answer but have it checked before you pass it on ;-))): you can describe the hardness of a mineral as the force needed to shear off small lumps of the mineral. You don't shear or break off atoms when you scratch a mineral but rather groups of molecules and, in most cases even groups of "unit-cells" of the mineral. Even in minerals that are in fact elements (silver, diamond, sulfur) you mostly do not scratch off atoms. Now you cannot measure the hardness of an atom because it has none. Hardness results from the configuration of molecules into crystals that are held together by non-chemical bonds. Now, a neutron star is one gigantic atomic nucleus. It consists of mainly neutrons with some protons and electrons remaining at the surface where gravity is less crushing than at the center. Anything that is made up from protons and neutrons is for all practical purposes an atomic nucleus (be it one with an atomic mass that is expressed as a power of ten). You cannot determine the hardness of 1 atom. If you would be able to scratch off some matter from the surface of a neutron star, you would in fact be splitting an atom. I wouldn't try it... neutron stars have a tremendous gravitational pull and before you know it you 're going down. Nothing is left of you except a hot spot on the stars' surface and a spurt of X-rays shooting into space. Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 6:21 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds > Berj, > > There may be a couple list members who might be able to provide an > answer (I'm avoiding names because I don't want to put anyone on the > spot), but I couldn't find it. > > It may not be known/computed. > > Good question! I wish I had an answer. > > Kreigh > > P.S., As recently as Monday this week it was pointed out to me that many > rockhounds were also interested in astronomy -- look down, look up -- > welcome to the group. > > > > > > Berj N. Ensanian wrote: > > > > Kreigh > > > > You got me to thinking - what is the hardness of a neutron star? > > > > :) > > > > Berj > > > > >From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > > >Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds > > >Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 23:08:11 -0400 > > > > > >Walter Schumann's Handbook of Rocks and Minerals gives a comparison > > >between Mohs and Absolute Hardness that is also available from many > > >other sources -- it just happened to be the closest to me at the moment. > > > > > >M1 A 0.00 > > >M2 A 1.25 > > >M3 A 4.5 > > >M4 A 5.0 > > >M5 A 6.5 > > >M6 A 37 > > >M7 A 120 > > >M8 A 175 > > >M9 A 1,000 > > >M10 A 140,000 > > > > > >Absolute Hardness is also known as Grinding Hardness, and is a linear > > >scale in my understanding; the Mohs scale is a relative scale. > > > > > >I've often wondered how well Mohs actually divides the minerals...are > > >the number of minerals between, say, 3 and 4 roughly the same as > > >between, say, 7 and 8? Does it make a difference if you use half ranges > > >like 5.5 to 6.5? > > > > > >And if you ranked all the accepted minerals by their (absolute) hardness > > >and tried to split it equally, what minerals would appear as the markers > > >in the new scale? Besides Diamond, I wonder if any of the new ones > > >would match Mohs? > > > > > >Since the article is by 'scientists', and they tend to use the absolute > > >scale when talking about material hardness, I suspect the 50% harder > > >implies an absolute value around 210,000 for Mohs 10.5. > > > > > >Removing the impurities (nitrogen appears to be the most common in > > >diamond) from diamonds should significantly increase the hardness by > > >reducing strains in the crystal lattice. I wonder if the optical > > >properties are different from natural diamond? > > > > > >Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > The difference on Moh's scale between 2 and 2.5 looks the same as that > > > > between 9.5 and 10. In reality, the latter is many times greater. > > > > Considering that the upper part of the hardness scale evolves in a > > > > logarithmic scale, would 50% harder than 10 be a lot or only just a > > >little > > > > in comparison? > > > > If you don't know the meaning of the hardness scale, it would seem like > > > > those new synthetic diamonds have a hardness of 15 on Moh's scale, which > > >is > > > > of course nonsense. > > > > Anyone knows what is meant by 50% harder? I would guess that it means > > >that > > > > it would take 50% more energy and time to wear off the same amount of > > >matter > > > > from the "new" diamonds as it would from the normal ones. But how do you > > > > express that in a scale? > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > Axel > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 4:19 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds > > > > > > > > > Hi Berj, > > > > > > > > > > If they can make a 'big' "rock" in a day, think of how quickly they > > > > > could make a lap or blade that needs little stones. 50% harder means > > > > > faster cutting. I wonder how soon the technology will become > > >commercial > > > > > and reach the wheels of the average Lapidary. > > > > > > > > > > Welcome to the list. Interesting post. Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Berj N. Ensanian wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The May 2004 issue of Today's Chemist at Work, page 12, reports on > > > > ultrahard > > > > > > gem-size artificial diamonds, at least 50% harder than conventional > > > > > > diamonds, grown in about a day, by a chemical vapor deposition > > > > technique. It > > > > > > was done by scientists at the Carnegie Institution's Geophysical Lab > > >in > > > > > > Wash., DC, and they published their work in Physica Status Solidi A > > > > (2004, > > > > > > 201, R25). > > > > > > > > > > > > Berj > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 27 03:39:05 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu May 27 02:39:05 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds References: <40B3FE13.4959@Tomaszewski.net> <001901c442fb$e5e0b570$6402a8c0@axel> <40B55A2C.7828@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <008e01c443ce$5c0f5850$6402a8c0@axel> Thank you Kreigh, > Removing the impurities (nitrogen appears to be the most common in > diamond) from diamonds should significantly increase the hardness by > reducing strains in the crystal lattice. I wonder if the optical > properties are different from natural diamond? Yes, removing the triplets and quintuplets of nitrogen would kill some of the nice fluorescence in diamonds. Now, fluorescence is my game so I'll settle for those "soft" diamonds ;-)))) Also boron, aluminum, silicon can replace carbon I think. > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > The difference on Moh's scale between 2 and 2.5 looks the same as that > > between 9.5 and 10. In reality, the latter is many times greater. > > Considering that the upper part of the hardness scale evolves in a > > logarithmic scale, would 50% harder than 10 be a lot or only just a little > > in comparison? > > If you don't know the meaning of the hardness scale, it would seem like > > those new synthetic diamonds have a hardness of 15 on Moh's scale, which is > > of course nonsense. > > Anyone knows what is meant by 50% harder? I would guess that it means that > > it would take 50% more energy and time to wear off the same amount of matter > > from the "new" diamonds as it would from the normal ones. But how do you > > express that in a scale? > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 4:19 AM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds > > > > > Hi Berj, > > > > > > If they can make a 'big' "rock" in a day, think of how quickly they > > > could make a lap or blade that needs little stones. 50% harder means > > > faster cutting. I wonder how soon the technology will become commercial > > > and reach the wheels of the average Lapidary. > > > > > > Welcome to the list. Interesting post. Thanks! > > > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Berj N. Ensanian wrote: > > > > > > > > The May 2004 issue of Today's Chemist at Work, page 12, reports on > > ultrahard > > > > gem-size artificial diamonds, at least 50% harder than conventional > > > > diamonds, grown in about a day, by a chemical vapor deposition > > technique. It > > > > was done by scientists at the Carnegie Institution's Geophysical Lab in > > > > Wash., DC, and they published their work in Physica Status Solidi A > > (2004, > > > > 201, R25). > > > > > > > > Berj > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 27 04:52:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu May 27 03:52:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] astronomy and rockhounds [was ultrahard diamonds] References: <40B56B33.30C3@Tomaszewski.net> <6.0.3.0.0.20040526202848.02fb1220@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <00e801c443d8$87003070$6402a8c0@axel> Me! No doubt about that... For me it has always been the origin of matter that drew my attention. Be it on a cosmological level or on a more down to earth one. The genesis of the elements is as appealing to me as the genesis of minerals. Most intriguing, of course, being the origin of life! There's more room for wondering thoughts (in all possible senses) out there than down here. So, Kitty, you may consider my interest announced ;-))) Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 8:42 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] astronomy and rockhounds [was ultrahard diamonds] > I know of several rockounds who are interested in astronomy, and some > astronomers who are rockhounds (particularly in my case, my > husband). Anyone want to announce their interest in astronomy, or point > out other notable astronomy/rockhound connections? > > Aloha, Kitty > > At 06:21 PM 5/26/2004, Kreigh wrote: > > As recently as Monday this week it was pointed out to me that many > >rockhounds were also interested in astronomy -- look down, look up -- > >welcome to the group. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 27 06:33:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tom Bowers) Date: Thu May 27 05:33:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds In-Reply-To: <40B55A2C.7828@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <20040527123223.62511.qmail@web61003.mail.yahoo.com> A ggod explanation of Moh's Hardness scale (which measures scratch resistance) can be found at : http://www.24carat.co.uk/hardnessmohsscale.html Tom Bowers --- Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > Walter Schumann's Handbook of Rocks and Minerals gives a comparison > between Mohs and Absolute Hardness that is also available from many > other sources -- it just happened to be the closest to me at the > moment. > > M1 A 0.00 > M2 A 1.25 > M3 A 4.5 > M4 A 5.0 > M5 A 6.5 > M6 A 37 > M7 A 120 > M8 A 175 > M9 A 1,000 > M10 A 140,000 > > Absolute Hardness is also known as Grinding Hardness, and is a linear > scale in my understanding; the Mohs scale is a relative scale. > > I've often wondered how well Mohs actually divides the minerals...are > the number of minerals between, say, 3 and 4 roughly the same as > between, say, 7 and 8? Does it make a difference if you use half > ranges > like 5.5 to 6.5? > > And if you ranked all the accepted minerals by their (absolute) > hardness > and tried to split it equally, what minerals would appear as the > markers > in the new scale? Besides Diamond, I wonder if any of the new ones > would match Mohs? > > Since the article is by 'scientists', and they tend to use the > absolute > scale when talking about material hardness, I suspect the 50% harder > implies an absolute value around 210,000 for Mohs 10.5. > > Removing the impurities (nitrogen appears to be the most common in > diamond) from diamonds should significantly increase the hardness by > reducing strains in the crystal lattice. I wonder if the optical > properties are different from natural diamond? > > Kreigh > > > > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > The difference on Moh's scale between 2 and 2.5 looks the same as > that > > between 9.5 and 10. In reality, the latter is many times greater. > > Considering that the upper part of the hardness scale evolves in a > > logarithmic scale, would 50% harder than 10 be a lot or only just a > little > > in comparison? > > If you don't know the meaning of the hardness scale, it would seem > like > > those new synthetic diamonds have a hardness of 15 on Moh's scale, > which is > > of course nonsense. > > Anyone knows what is meant by 50% harder? I would guess that it > means that > > it would take 50% more energy and time to wear off the same amount > of matter > > from the "new" diamonds as it would from the normal ones. But how > do you > > express that in a scale? > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 4:19 AM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds > > > > > Hi Berj, > > > > > > If they can make a 'big' "rock" in a day, think of how quickly > they > > > could make a lap or blade that needs little stones. 50% harder > means > > > faster cutting. I wonder how soon the technology will become > commercial > > > and reach the wheels of the average Lapidary. > > > > > > Welcome to the list. Interesting post. Thanks! > > > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Berj N. Ensanian wrote: > > > > > > > > The May 2004 issue of Today's Chemist at Work, page 12, reports > on > > ultrahard > > > > gem-size artificial diamonds, at least 50% harder than > conventional > > > > diamonds, grown in about a day, by a chemical vapor deposition > > technique. It > > > > was done by scientists at the Carnegie Institution's > Geophysical Lab in > > > > Wash., DC, and they published their work in Physica Status > Solidi A > > (2004, > > > > 201, R25). > > > > > > > > Berj > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 27 06:33:14 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (SHM) Date: Thu May 27 05:33:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] astronomy and rockhounds [was ultrahard diamonds] In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.0.20040526202848.02fb1220@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <000301c443e6$b88bdf50$bde4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Well sure, I am one of them too. It just seems reasonable, as some of our most interesting rocks came from outer space to begin with. I took a meteoritics course in grad school to feed this interest, and am happy I did. Incidentally, the connection between minerals and astronomy is being strengthened here at the Sterling Hill Mining Museum -- soon we will have an astronomy dome that will contain one of the largest telescopes in the State of New Jersey, as well as a 12.5" reflector. Now if we could just get New Jersey to turn off all those lights . . . Cheers- Earl Verbeek (Resident Geologist, SHMM) -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill Heacox Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 2:42 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] astronomy and rockhounds [was ultrahard diamonds] I know of several rockounds who are interested in astronomy, and some astronomers who are rockhounds (particularly in my case, my husband). Anyone want to announce their interest in astronomy, or point out other notable astronomy/rockhound connections? Aloha, Kitty At 06:21 PM 5/26/2004, Kreigh wrote: > As recently as Monday this week it was pointed out to me that many >rockhounds were also interested in astronomy -- look down, look up -- >welcome to the group. _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 27 06:36:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu May 27 05:36:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] National Atlas and Tim In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040527053300.01fbbb00@mail.spiritone.com> The question was where is this place in California? The answer was somewhere in the middle of the Mojave. I fail to see how anyone could determine the location from the national atlas and the name "Crystal Ridge". At 09:38 PM 5/26/2004, you wrote: >If you know where something is at it's great; if you don't . . . > >I'm a bit confused. If you have a location with USAtlas; you can find the >maps. If you do not have a location name? Kinda a bit redundant? > >The idea behind it is to put a map on the face of a name. With the site >you can enter a site name and get the map location. >--- >David Bese >The Rainforest Hippie >Pt. Orchard, Wa. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of OR, WA, & ID rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 27 06:43:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (SHM) Date: Thu May 27 05:43:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401c443e8$15266d10$bde4a5ce@D3JM7W21> A quibble, but the man's name was Friedrich Mohs, not Moh, so it should be Mohs' test. I bring this up only because I see the apostrophe in the wrong place more than 90% of the time, including on the printed cards that accompany the mineral hardness kits we sell here at the museum. This might even outrank "smokey quartz" as the most common mistake we hobbyists make in print (I've made my share too, and am still at it!). Cheers- Earl -----Original Message----- One can imagine two neutron stars on a collision course: a cosmic Moh's test!! From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 27 06:55:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tom Bowers) Date: Thu May 27 05:55:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds In-Reply-To: <20040527123223.62511.qmail@web61003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040527125427.25397.qmail@web61004.mail.yahoo.com> Jives gives the following descriptions of various hardness techniques: In materials science, hardness is the characteristic of a solid material expressing its resistance to permament deformation. There are three principle operational definitions of hardness: 1. Scratch hardness 2. Indentation hardness 3. Rebound, dynamic or absolute hardness Scratch hardness In mineralogy, hardness commonly refers to a material's ability to penetrate softer materials. An object made of a hard material will scratch an object made of a softer material. Scratch hardness is usually measured on the Mohs scale of mineral hardness. Mohs' scale of mineral hardness characterises the scratch resistance of various minerals through the ability of a harder material to scratch a softer. It was created by the German mineralogist Friedrich Mohs and is one of several definitions of hardness in materials science. Mohs based the scale on ten readily available minerals. Materials are characterised against the scale by finding the hardest material that they can scratch. Diamond is the hardest known substance so it will scratch any other material. Diamond, being the hardest material, is the substance used to cut diamond. Higher-grade diamonds are used to cut lower-grade diamonds. Indentation hardness Primarily used in engineering and metallurgy, indentation hardness seeks to characterise a material's resistance to permanent, and in particular plastic, deformation. It is usually measured by loading an indenter of specified geometry onto the material and measuring the dimensions of the resulting indentation. There are several alternative defintions of indentation hardness, the commonest of which are: * Brinell hardness test - The Brinell scale characterises the indentation hardness of materials through the scale of penetration of an indenter, loaded on a material test-piece. It is one of several definitions of hardness in materials science. * Knoop hardness test or microhardness test, for measurement over small areas * Meyer hardness test * Rockwell hardness test - The Rockwell scale characterises the indentation hardness of materials through the depth of penetration of an indenter, loaded on a material sample and compared to the penetration in some reference material. * Vickers hardness test There is, in general, no simple relationship between the results of different hardness tests. Though there are practical conversion tables for hard steels, for example, some materials show qualitativey different behaviours under the various measurement methods. Rebound hardness Also known as dynamic or absolute hardness, rebound hardness measures the height of rebound of an indenter dropped onto a material using an instrument known as a scleroscope. Bibliography * Dieter, G E (1988) Mechanical Metallurgy ISBN 0071004068 - - - - - Another good site defining the various methods of hardness testing and comparing the various scales can be found at: http://www.calce.umd.edu/general/Facilities/Hardness_ad_.htm Tom Bowers --- Tom Bowers wrote: > A good explanation of Moh's Hardness scale (which measures scratch > resistance) can be found at : > > http://www.24carat.co.uk/hardnessmohsscale.html > > Tom Bowers > > > --- Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > Walter Schumann's Handbook of Rocks and Minerals gives a comparison > > between Mohs and Absolute Hardness that is also available from many > > other sources -- it just happened to be the closest to me at the > > moment. > > > > M1 A 0.00 > > M2 A 1.25 > > M3 A 4.5 > > M4 A 5.0 > > M5 A 6.5 > > M6 A 37 > > M7 A 120 > > M8 A 175 > > M9 A 1,000 > > M10 A 140,000 > > > > Absolute Hardness is also known as Grinding Hardness, and is a > linear > > scale in my understanding; the Mohs scale is a relative scale. > > > > I've often wondered how well Mohs actually divides the > minerals...are > > the number of minerals between, say, 3 and 4 roughly the same as > > between, say, 7 and 8? Does it make a difference if you use half > > ranges > > like 5.5 to 6.5? > > > > And if you ranked all the accepted minerals by their (absolute) > > hardness > > and tried to split it equally, what minerals would appear as the > > markers > > in the new scale? Besides Diamond, I wonder if any of the new ones > > would match Mohs? > > > > Since the article is by 'scientists', and they tend to use the > > absolute > > scale when talking about material hardness, I suspect the 50% > harder > > implies an absolute value around 210,000 for Mohs 10.5. > > > > Removing the impurities (nitrogen appears to be the most common in > > diamond) from diamonds should significantly increase the hardness > by > > reducing strains in the crystal lattice. I wonder if the optical > > properties are different from natural diamond? > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > The difference on Moh's scale between 2 and 2.5 looks the same as > > that > > > between 9.5 and 10. In reality, the latter is many times greater. > > > Considering that the upper part of the hardness scale evolves in > a > > > logarithmic scale, would 50% harder than 10 be a lot or only just > a > > little > > > in comparison? > > > If you don't know the meaning of the hardness scale, it would > seem > > like > > > those new synthetic diamonds have a hardness of 15 on Moh's > scale, > > which is > > > of course nonsense. > > > Anyone knows what is meant by 50% harder? I would guess that it > > means that > > > it would take 50% more energy and time to wear off the same > amount > > of matter > > > from the "new" diamonds as it would from the normal ones. But how > > do you > > > express that in a scale? > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > Axel > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > > > To: > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 4:19 AM > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds > > > > > > > Hi Berj, > > > > > > > > If they can make a 'big' "rock" in a day, think of how quickly > > they > > > > could make a lap or blade that needs little stones. 50% harder > > means > > > > faster cutting. I wonder how soon the technology will become > > commercial > > > > and reach the wheels of the average Lapidary. > > > > > > > > Welcome to the list. Interesting post. Thanks! > > > > > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Berj N. Ensanian wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The May 2004 issue of Today's Chemist at Work, page 12, > reports > > on > > > ultrahard > > > > > gem-size artificial diamonds, at least 50% harder than > > conventional > > > > > diamonds, grown in about a day, by a chemical vapor > deposition > > > technique. It > > > > > was done by scientists at the Carnegie Institution's > > Geophysical Lab in > > > > > Wash., DC, and they published their work in Physica Status > > Solidi A > > > (2004, > > > > > 201, R25). > > > > > > > > > > Berj > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 27 07:28:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu May 27 06:28:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds References: <000401c443e8$15266d10$bde4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <001501c443ee$51b6d2f0$6402a8c0@axel> Most people seem to have it right, Earl ;-))) A Yahoo search on "Moh's hardness" returned 12.700 hits... "Mohs' hardness" over 58.000 hits. So there's hope yet. It's one of those confusing names like they also have in astronomy... try to say "Subramanyan Chandresekhar" 5 times after you had 2 Duvels... Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "SHM" To: Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 2:41 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds > > A quibble, but the man's name was Friedrich Mohs, not Moh, so it should be > Mohs' test. I bring this up only because I see the apostrophe in the wrong > place more than 90% of the time, including on the printed cards that > accompany the mineral hardness kits we sell here at the museum. This might > even outrank "smokey quartz" as the most common mistake we hobbyists make in > print (I've made my share too, and am still at it!). > > Cheers- Earl > > -----Original Message----- > > One can imagine two neutron stars on a collision course: a cosmic Moh's > test!! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 27 07:46:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Rich Allen) Date: Thu May 27 06:46:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] astronomy and rockhounds [was ultrahard diamonds] In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.0.20040526202848.02fb1220@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <200452774411.645914@laptop> On Wed, 26 May 2004 20:42:11 -1000, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > I know of several rockounds who are interested in astronomy, and some > astronomers who are rockhounds (particularly in my case, my > husband). Anyone want to announce their interest in astronomy, or point > out other notable astronomy/rockhound connections? I'm sure there are lots of us; it's perfectly natural for the chronically curious to hunt rocks when it's light, and stars when it's dark! :) There was a mailing list specifically for us called Heaven and Earth, but I believe it's gone away as I haven't received anything from it in quite a while. Rich Allen From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 27 07:52:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Henry Barwood) Date: Thu May 27 06:52:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ruggle's Mine In-Reply-To: <000d01c44389$c056c8b0$3c8869d1@6663r01> Message-ID: My one and only trip to the Ruggles was in 1969. I collected some really nice, but pale, purple apatite micros from one of the old mine pillars. It was hard collecting, but I still have those micros somewhere. Has anyone else collected anything besides the radioactive minerals at the Ruggles? Henry Barwood From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 27 07:57:29 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Thu May 27 06:57:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] astronomy and rockhounds [was ultrahard diamonds] Message-ID: I'm one of those..head up, head down people. I even started an email group for mineral collectors/hunters and astronomy buffs! I thought it had a nice juxtaposition ? Jackie --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 27 08:15:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Thu May 27 07:15:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] astronomy and rockhounds & ultimate rock Message-ID: <9.2a7fb58d.2de751c2@aol.com> All of those subjects are connected! For just one instance. I am a member of this group, of the NY Mineralogical Society, of the Planetary Society and much else and it all came together just recently. I have been following the Mars rover "Opportunity"s prowling around Meridiani Planum as reported on the Planetary Society web site (planetary.org) and saw the "blueberry spherules that she found. They looked to me very much like a smaller version of the Moki Marbles from Utah that I'm currently very much interested in (my current ULTIMATE rock!). I discussed this with a collegue from the NY club via e-mail and at the May club meeting ( I went down to the city in mid-May for a visit) and now, in the March 27th issue of NEW SCIENTIST (sent to me regularly by my brother) I see that others have noticed this too (page 14-15 article). Just to throw in a literary allusion - my totem animal is Kiplings' Elephant Child! Jim Groves (currently and now permanently of Savoy, Massachussetts). --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 27 08:28:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Stephen Stover) Date: Thu May 27 07:28:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] THE ULTITE ROCK?... In-Reply-To: <6.2a3b5188.2de6ba8a@aol.com> Message-ID: <20040527142715.16804.qmail@web20027.mail.yahoo.com> withlacoochee boytrodal(sp?) carnellion agate. It is fossilized coral similar to tampa bay agate only prettier. Got to collect there twice in the 70's with the georgia mineral society. Last I heard the site was closed but hopefully they will open it one day and I can get my fix. --- Paintricks@aol.com wrote: > I have a question. > Being that this list is diverse and most > interesting,.. > I was wondering,... what do people of the list think > of being the "ULTIMATE > ROCK"? Of course there's the obvious. Gold, > diamonds, U know.. the good stuff. > I'm mainly interested in everyones collections. > Rocks the you love the > most. > This might be a good way to find some more > favorites I may not know of. > I'm limited to nothing more than playing in the sand > here on the coast. No rocks > at all. > Anyone? > Thanks, > Kevin > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ===== Stephen F. Stover PH (281) 829-1102 xossfs@yahoo.com Wanting to hunt rocks and play games every day! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 27 09:37:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Thu May 27 08:37:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds Message-ID: Hi Axel Of course I'm primarily allowing my imagination to run freely and philosophically with neutron star "hardness". But lets assume hardness generally means some relative change from before and after, of two grazing objects, the object less changed being the harder one. If we allow that change takes place in space and time, then after a grazing encounter between two neutron stars one may oscillate more violently and longer than the other, and so it could be said to be the "softer"; it has lost perhaps not some "material", but some of its equilibrium, which nevertheless could be related to "material" via the mass-energy relation of physics. All this makes it so clear why Moh's scale continues to be useful and practical. Berj >From: "Axel Emmermann" >Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >To: >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds >Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:32:52 +0200 > >Hi Berj, > >some of us stumble into deep pits while gazing at the skies and looking for >minerals all at the same time... >About your question (I think this is the answer but have it checked before >you pass it on ;-))): _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 27 09:54:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Thu May 27 08:54:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] help needed from UK - upping the ante Message-ID: <001901c44402$bc2d5f50$6401a8c0@Junior> Alright, I'll up the ante. Anybody that gets me a photo that I can legally reproduce on OGReNet gets $50 US worth of minerals from my website, http://www.element51.com. Surely there are still some Brits on this list, and at least one of them lives in London, and is up for a challenge??? Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals at: http://www.element51.com Ontario minerals at: http://www.ontariominerals.com > Here in Ontario, Canada, we have a famous old sodalite deposit, the Princess > Sodalite Mine. > > Much mention is made of this locality having in 1906 supplied 200 cubic > feet - 118 tons - of deep blue sodalite, for use in the residence of Sir > Ernest Cassell, of Marlborough House, Park Lane, Hyde Park. I imagine that > the residence would be rather lovely, but have never been able to find a > photograph of it. > > Assuming Cassell's house remains, can anybody supply photographs of whatever > the sodalite was used for? I'm assuming floors or something along those > lines. > > The photo(s) would be used for two educational, non-profit websites: > http://www.ontariominerals.com, dedicated to the minerals of Ontario; and > OGReNet, the Ontario Geoscience Resource Network, > http://www.ontariogeoscience.net . OGReNet is a site initiated by the > University of Western Ontario, with the purpose of providing geoscience > resources to teachers and acting as a liason between the teaching and > geoscience communities. > > If necessary, I'd be willing to pay (or exchange a nice chunk of sodalite) > for good photos; they would add a great deal to the above-mentioned > websites. > > Many thanks to anybody that can help! > > Cheers, > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Great minerals at: http://www.element51.com > Ontario minerals at: http://www.ontariominerals.com > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 27 10:21:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Fred Olmstead) Date: Thu May 27 09:21:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds In-Reply-To: <20040527123223.62511.qmail@web61003.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040527123223.62511.qmail@web61003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40B61877.4010609@rcn.com> HI THIS WAS SENT TO THE ROCKHOUNDS LIST rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com THOUGHT YOU MIGHT BE INTERESTED GeorgiaO ___...---..___...---...___...---...___ Tom Bowers wrote: >A ggod explanation of Moh's Hardness scale (which measures scratch >resistance) can be found at : > >http://www.24carat.co.uk/hardnessmohsscale.html > >Tom Bowers > > >--- Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > >>Walter Schumann's Handbook of Rocks and Minerals gives a comparison >>between Mohs and Absolute Hardness that is also available from many >>other sources -- it just happened to be the closest to me at the >>moment. >> >>M1 A 0.00 >>M2 A 1.25 >>M3 A 4.5 >>M4 A 5.0 >>M5 A 6.5 >>M6 A 37 >>M7 A 120 >>M8 A 175 >>M9 A 1,000 >>M10 A 140,000 >> >>Absolute Hardness is also known as Grinding Hardness, and is a linear >>scale in my understanding; the Mohs scale is a relative scale. >> >>I've often wondered how well Mohs actually divides the minerals...are >>the number of minerals between, say, 3 and 4 roughly the same as >>between, say, 7 and 8? Does it make a difference if you use half >>ranges >>like 5.5 to 6.5? >> >>And if you ranked all the accepted minerals by their (absolute) >>hardness >>and tried to split it equally, what minerals would appear as the >>markers >>in the new scale? Besides Diamond, I wonder if any of the new ones >>would match Mohs? >> >>Since the article is by 'scientists', and they tend to use the >>absolute >>scale when talking about material hardness, I suspect the 50% harder >>implies an absolute value around 210,000 for Mohs 10.5. >> >>Removing the impurities (nitrogen appears to be the most common in >>diamond) from diamonds should significantly increase the hardness by >>reducing strains in the crystal lattice. I wonder if the optical >>properties are different from natural diamond? >> >>Kreigh >> >> >> >> >> >>Axel Emmermann wrote: >> >> >>>The difference on Moh's scale between 2 and 2.5 looks the same as >>> >>> >>that >> >> >>>between 9.5 and 10. In reality, the latter is many times greater. >>>Considering that the upper part of the hardness scale evolves in a >>>logarithmic scale, would 50% harder than 10 be a lot or only just a >>> >>> >>little >> >> >>>in comparison? >>>If you don't know the meaning of the hardness scale, it would seem >>> >>> >>like >> >> >>>those new synthetic diamonds have a hardness of 15 on Moh's scale, >>> >>> >>which is >> >> >>>of course nonsense. >>>Anyone knows what is meant by 50% harder? I would guess that it >>> >>> >>means that >> >> >>>it would take 50% more energy and time to wear off the same amount >>> >>> >>of matter >> >> >>>from the "new" diamonds as it would from the normal ones. But how >>> >>> >>do you >> >> >>>express that in a scale? >>> >>>Cheers >>> >>>Axel >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" >>>To: >>>Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 4:19 AM >>>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds >>> >>> >>> >>>>Hi Berj, >>>> >>>>If they can make a 'big' "rock" in a day, think of how quickly >>>> >>>> >>they >> >> >>>>could make a lap or blade that needs little stones. 50% harder >>>> >>>> >>means >> >> >>>>faster cutting. I wonder how soon the technology will become >>>> >>>> >>commercial >> >> >>>>and reach the wheels of the average Lapidary. >>>> >>>>Welcome to the list. Interesting post. Thanks! >>>> >>>>Kreigh >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Berj N. Ensanian wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>The May 2004 issue of Today's Chemist at Work, page 12, reports >>>>> >>>>> >>on >> >> >>>ultrahard >>> >>> >>>>>gem-size artificial diamonds, at least 50% harder than >>>>> >>>>> >>conventional >> >> >>>>>diamonds, grown in about a day, by a chemical vapor deposition >>>>> >>>>> >>>technique. It >>> >>> >>>>>was done by scientists at the Carnegie Institution's >>>>> >>>>> >>Geophysical Lab in >> >> >>>>>Wash., DC, and they published their work in Physica Status >>>>> >>>>> >>Solidi A >> >> >>>(2004, >>> >>> >>>>>201, R25). >>>>> >>>>>Berj >>>>> >>>>> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. >http://messenger.yahoo.com/ >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 27 13:22:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu May 27 12:22:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] astronomy and rockhounds In-Reply-To: <000301c443e6$b88bdf50$bde4a5ce@D3JM7W21> References: <6.0.3.0.0.20040526202848.02fb1220@mail.aloha.net> <000301c443e6$b88bdf50$bde4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20040527093143.025ee580@mail.aloha.net> Hey, Earl, Congratulations on the telescope! I like to nag my geology faculty colleagues by saying: "Geologists are just overly specialized astronomers." Aloha, Bill. PS. RE your older topic "Hey, Check Out This Diamond," you folks did a fine job without an astronomer's input. Some of you can come teach a guest spot for my physics & astronomy classes any time. B. At 02:31 AM 5/27/2004, you wrote: >...the connection between minerals and astronomy is being >strengthened here at the Sterling Hill Mining Museum -- soon we will have an >astronomy dome that will contain one of the largest telescopes in the State >of New Jersey, as well as a 12.5" reflector. Now if we could just get New >Jersey to turn off all those lights . . . > > Cheers- Earl Verbeek (Resident Geologist, SHMM) From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 27 14:49:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu May 27 13:49:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds References: Message-ID: <005301c4442b$fc24d010$6402a8c0@axel> Hi Berj >But lets assume hardness > generally means some relative change from before and after, of two grazing > objects, the object less changed being the harder one. If we allow that > change takes place in space and time, then after a grazing encounter between > two neutron stars one may oscillate more violently and longer than the > other, and so it could be said to be the "softer"; What I THINK that would happen is this: Both neutron stars would gravitationally bind each other. If they are so close that they "graze" each other they would immediately fuse together in a violent flash of gamma rays. Since a neutron star forms when the Chandrasekhar mass limit is crossed (1.4 solar masses), the sum of two neutron stars would be at least 2.8 solar masses. If I remember correctly, the maximum mass that degenerate neutron pressure can withstand is about 2.7 solar masses. Ergo: the fusion of these two "atomic nuclei" would almost certainly yield a black hole But I'm rather good in telling stories so I think some confirmation is warranted here ;-))) Now, a black hole will rip matter off ANYTHING so, in a way, it is the hardest thing in the universe. Cheers Axel From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 27 16:59:03 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (john) Date: Thu May 27 15:59:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] astronomy and rockhounds [was ultrahard diamonds] In-Reply-To: <00e801c443d8$87003070$6402a8c0@axel> References: <40B56B33.30C3@Tomaszewski.net> <6.0.3.0.0.20040526202848.02fb1220@mail.aloha.net> <00e801c443d8$87003070$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: <40B66E99.3010906@hal-pc.org> Axel Emmermann wrote: >Me! >No doubt about that... >For me it has always been the origin of matter that drew my attention. Be it >on a cosmological level or on a more down to earth one. >The genesis of the elements is as appealing to me as the genesis of >minerals. > Hi, Axel! I think that even the cosmologists will concede that the origin of mass-energy is axiomatic at this point. I am not sure that I can follow all the contortions that have been presented to explain what has happened to that mass-energy since it was created. I find it very interesting that down here at the "frozen energy level" that the elements are present, and increase systematically by just one proton from one to the next, 1 to 104+. Why should that be? Is there any reason that there shouldn't be gaps or jumps? Obviously there is a reason that there should be no gaps, because that is what is observed. But why? >Most intriguing, of course, being the origin of life! >There's more room for wondering thoughts (in all possible senses) out there >than down here. > > I wonder if the origin of life is also axiomatic in the end, at least in the scientific sense. We may be able to reconstruct a "reasonable" explanation of what happened, but not why it happened. Again that explanation will depend upon the prime dogma of Geology/Paleontology, namely Uniformitarianism. And the influnce of "random muation" cannot be reconstructed. In our hubris or our poor limited vision we may be wrong. Stephen Jay Gould has certainly persented some pretty good arguments to shake up our realtively naive vision of paleobiology. Suppose something happened that was so catastrophic that it completely destroyed what went before? We usually dismiss that possibility both on the assumption that something of the prior world would have survived, and Ockham's Razor as preferring the simplest solution. But I suspect the Universe is a lot more complicated than we know, and though I enjoy the current "solutions" as probably the best available to our minds, but there is always that nagging thought that we don't (and maybe cannot) know very much at all about everything there is, or has been. Even the best of our tools for actually measuring paleo-time are crude instruments compared to what springs from our imaginations as reasonable theories. Are we at the beginning of precisely defining past events? Or at an impass because we cannot think of a better way? Or on the verge of a new and vastly better way of dating what IS? Of measuring the distances that ARE? As opposed to our best estimate of what we think they are... john >So, Kitty, you may consider my interest announced ;-))) > >Cheers > >Axel > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" >To: >Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 8:42 AM >Subject: [Rockhounds] astronomy and rockhounds [was ultrahard diamonds] > > > > >>I know of several rockounds who are interested in astronomy, and some >>astronomers who are rockhounds (particularly in my case, my >>husband). Anyone want to announce their interest in astronomy, or point >>out other notable astronomy/rockhound connections? >> >>Aloha, Kitty >> >> From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 27 19:36:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu May 27 18:36:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] astronomy and rockhounds [was ultrahard diamonds] References: <40B56B33.30C3@Tomaszewski.net> <6.0.3.0.0.20040526202848.02fb1220@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <40B69752.2ECD@Tomaszewski.net> Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > I know of several rockounds who are interested in astronomy, and some > astronomers who are rockhounds (particularly in my case, my > husband). Anyone want to announce their interest in astronomy, or point > out other notable astronomy/rockhound connections? > > Aloha, Kitty > > At 06:21 PM 5/26/2004, Kreigh wrote: > > As recently as Monday this week it was pointed out to me that many > >rockhounds were also interested in astronomy -- look down, look up -- > >welcome to the group. BTW, I _was_ including myself in the group that looks both up and down. When my wife and I visited Hawaii last summer Kitty took us to see the lava and Bill took us to Mauna Kea to see the stars. We collected rocks on both trips. I still can't decide which volcano was more fun, the hot one or the cold one. Kreigh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 27 20:34:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu May 27 19:34:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] astronomy, rockhounds, and my ULTIMATE ROCK References: <9.2a7fb58d.2de751c2@aol.com> Message-ID: <40B6A4F4.7294@Tomaszewski.net> Jim, I was following the Mars Rovers at the NASA website, saw the 'blueberries', and said those are Moqui Marbles! I found a contact via the Planetary Society and sent word to the team with some references (and found out I was not the first). Nice choice for an ULTIMATE ROCK. I've been taking them to my school presentations for years because they catch kid's imaginations; the competing theories for their formation are all interesting. Now I've got specimens of all of the common elements, and some of the rare ones, in my collection. My town has had more than 100 years of gypsum (and gravel) mining, so I have more than the usual amount of gypsum/selenite from around the world. I have a fondness for ores. I like (pretty) crystals. I prefer type localities. I look for odd associations. I appreciate specimens with a pedigree. I've got most of the minerals in the common fieldguides, and a lot that are not. I dream of someday having all the accepted minerals in my collection. And since we're dreaming, why not make them all oversize museum quality specimens... But my "ULTIMATE ROCK" would have to be the (first) one that I discovered, researched, and got to name as a newly accepted mineral. (Sorry Axel, but a 'moonrock' {thanks again for recovering them!}, for your collection {in appreciation!}, only made fourth on my ULTIMATE ROCK list). Kreigh Jg81638@aol.com wrote: > > All of those subjects are connected! For just one instance. I am a member > of this group, of the NY Mineralogical Society, of the Planetary Society and > much else and it all came together just recently. I have been following the > Mars rover "Opportunity"s prowling around Meridiani Planum as reported on the > Planetary Society web site (planetary.org) and saw the "blueberry spherules that > she found. They looked to me very much like a smaller version of the Moki > Marbles from Utah that I'm currently very much interested in (my current > ULTIMATE rock!). I discussed this with a collegue from the NY club via e-mail and at > the May club meeting ( I went down to the city in mid-May for a visit) and > now, in the March 27th issue of NEW SCIENTIST (sent to me regularly by my > brother) I see that others have noticed this too (page 14-15 article). Just to > throw in a literary allusion - my totem animal is Kiplings' Elephant Child! > Jim Groves (currently and now permanently of Savoy, Massachussetts). > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 27 20:53:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu May 27 19:53:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] help needed from UK - upping the ante References: <001901c44402$bc2d5f50$6401a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <40B6A986.652@Tomaszewski.net> Tim, The closest I have found so far is http://www.canadianrockhound.com/2001/01/cr0105105_sodalite.html and the article has copyright contacts linked. You may want to contact the author about her sources. Kreigh Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: > > Alright, I'll up the ante. Anybody that gets me a photo that I can legally > reproduce on OGReNet gets $50 US worth of minerals from my website, > http://www.element51.com. > > Surely there are still some Brits on this list, and at least one of them > lives in London, and is up for a challenge??? > > Cheers, > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Great minerals at: http://www.element51.com > Ontario minerals at: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > > Here in Ontario, Canada, we have a famous old sodalite deposit, the > Princess > > Sodalite Mine. > > > > Much mention is made of this locality having in 1906 supplied 200 cubic > > feet - 118 tons - of deep blue sodalite, for use in the residence of Sir > > Ernest Cassell, of Marlborough House, Park Lane, Hyde Park. I imagine that > > the residence would be rather lovely, but have never been able to find a > > photograph of it. > > > > Assuming Cassell's house remains, can anybody supply photographs of > whatever > > the sodalite was used for? I'm assuming floors or something along those > > lines. > > > > The photo(s) would be used for two educational, non-profit websites: > > http://www.ontariominerals.com, dedicated to the minerals of Ontario; and > > OGReNet, the Ontario Geoscience Resource Network, > > http://www.ontariogeoscience.net . OGReNet is a site initiated by the > > University of Western Ontario, with the purpose of providing geoscience > > resources to teachers and acting as a liason between the teaching and > > geoscience communities. > > > > If necessary, I'd be willing to pay (or exchange a nice chunk of sodalite) > > for good photos; they would add a great deal to the above-mentioned > > websites. > > > > Many thanks to anybody that can help! > > > > Cheers, > > > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > > Great minerals at: http://www.element51.com > > Ontario minerals at: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 27 21:55:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Thu May 27 20:55:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds Message-ID: Hi Axel I'm weak on the astrophysics at the moment. However, to jump past that for a bit: would not socalled quantum foam be even harder than a black hole? Here's a different tack: is it conceivable to say that an "infinitely soft" substance, a theoretical one anyway, is essentially immune to one of any hardness? It would just get out of the way. Berj >From: "Axel Emmermann" >Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >To: >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds >Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 22:48:33 +0200 > >Hi Berj >What I THINK that would happen is this: >Both neutron stars would gravitationally bind each other. If they are so >close that they "graze" each other they would immediately fuse together in >a >violent flash of gamma rays. >Since a neutron star forms when the Chandrasekhar mass limit is crossed >(1.4 _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 27 23:12:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Thu May 27 22:12:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] astronomy and rockhounds [was ultrahard diamonds] References: <000301c443e6$b88bdf50$bde4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <002901c44472$89e715c0$5ba4490c@pete> Wow, Earl, If it's "... as well as a 12.5" reflector.", how large is that "largest telescope in the State" at SHMM going to be? (and hi from) Pete From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Thu May 27 23:20:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Thu May 27 22:20:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] astronomy and rockhounds References: <6.0.3.0.0.20040526202848.02fb1220@mail.aloha.net> <000301c443e6$b88bdf50$bde4a5ce@D3JM7W21> <6.0.3.0.0.20040527093143.025ee580@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <004501c44473$b18f41a0$5ba4490c@pete> And I'll add, I suppose I'm another one, who is pretty much interested in both of these fields. I get a kick out of watching meteors, comets, etc., & have been a little bit involved in study of meteorites & meteorite falls, and of impact metamorphism at the K-T boundary, and I'm real fascinated by a lot of the theoretical aspects of what's out there in & beyond our galaxy. My first view of one of the prominent comets (back about 8 years ago--I'm pretty sure it was around 1996, I'd have to check my notes to remind myself which comet), was when I was camped out at the top of Geronimo Pass, near the AZ-NM border not far from Mexico, preparatory to hiking to a neat chalcedony geode locality near there; in February, on my way to the Tucson show. The comet was visible (as I recall) in the east, which must have meant it was in the morning sky; it later became more readily visible, in the evening sky. Pete From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 28 02:31:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri May 28 01:31:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds References: Message-ID: <001b01c4448d$fbaa5c60$6402a8c0@axel> Yo Berj Hahaaa! You saw "Timeline" too... or read the book... confess or I shall expose you to a picture of me! (think I need a shrink now) To answer your question: I really wouldn't know since I'm not a scientist. I guess you mean that the universe becomes anisotropic when you look at it on a scale that is even much smaller than the elementary particles? Remember that anything smaller than the smallest possible crystal (you need several atoms to build a crystal) of a mineral substance is NOT that mineral substance. For example: the mineral potassium alum KAl(SO4)2.12H2O has 48 atoms in its formula but the smallest possible crystal (the unit cell) contains 192 atoms. Anything smaller than that would not be the mineral potassium alum but only the chemical substance alum. You can determine the hardness of a mineral or even manmade materials but you have to have at least two molecules to do it. Stripping matter from only one molecule would not be measuring hardness but rather testing the strength of chemical bonds. > Here's a different tack: is it conceivable to say that an "infinitely soft" > substance, a theoretical one anyway, is essentially immune to one of any > hardness? It would just get out of the way. Now you lost me ;-))) Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Berj N. Ensanian" To: Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 5:54 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds > > > Hi Axel > > I'm weak on the astrophysics at the moment. However, to jump past that for a > bit: would not socalled quantum foam be even harder than a black hole? > > Here's a different tack: is it conceivable to say that an "infinitely soft" > substance, a theoretical one anyway, is essentially immune to one of any > hardness? It would just get out of the way. > > Berj > > > > >From: "Axel Emmermann" > >Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > >To: > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds > >Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 22:48:33 +0200 > > > >Hi Berj > > >What I THINK that would happen is this: > >Both neutron stars would gravitationally bind each other. If they are so > >close that they "graze" each other they would immediately fuse together in > >a > >violent flash of gamma rays. > >Since a neutron star forms when the Chandrasekhar mass limit is crossed > >(1.4 > > _________________________________________________________________ > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! > http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 28 03:17:04 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri May 28 02:17:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] astronomy and rockhounds [was ultrahard diamonds] References: <40B56B33.30C3@Tomaszewski.net> <6.0.3.0.0.20040526202848.02fb1220@mail.aloha.net> <00e801c443d8$87003070$6402a8c0@axel> <40B66E99.3010906@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: <003101c44494$7659c620$6402a8c0@axel> Hi John, >I find it very > interesting that down here at the "frozen energy level" that the > elements are present, and increase systematically by just one proton > from one to the next, 1 to 104+. Why should that be? It isn't... ;-( >Is there any > reason that there shouldn't be gaps or jumps? Obviously there is a > reason that there should be no gaps, because that is what is observed. > But why? Look at the periodic table: there is no Technetium in nature. We make it ourselves but it is not found in rocks. Francium is another weird element. At any given time there is only 27 grams of it in the totality of our planets mass. Past element 92 (U), all elements are either manmade or they occur in exotic places such as supernovas (some neptunium seems to have been found in Tsjernobyl). It looks like some configurations of neutrons an protons are stable while others are not. Most elements have at least one stable isotope but not all. The trans-uranium elements have none. However, there seems to be a stable range of synthetic elements with superheavy nuclei. They are produced by allowing heavy elements to absorb very slow moving neutrons (fast neutrons hitting the superheavy nucleus would cause fission because the strong interaction between the particles in the nucleus is spread pretty thin.) > I wonder if the origin of life is also axiomatic in the end, at least in > the scientific sense. -- SNIP -- I have a pretty lonely view on the origin of life... almost everybody thinks I'm crazy but since I have no scientific reputation to defend or protect, I'll share it with you. We all know the chemical dioxin. Highly poisonous, carcinogen and impossible to remove from our ecosystem. The reason for its existence simply is "entropy". It is the most stable end product of combustion of organic matter. Therefore it spreads throughout our environment. What happens in dark clouds of matter (globules) in space, where new stars are formed? Atoms collide and form radicals that form more complex molecules that are usually destroyed by the UV-radiation of nearby stars. But is such a globule collapses and gets really dense, those molecules have a chance of surviving. Peptides and amino acids may form. Those are stable! We know of life in water that is hotter than 300° C. I think that crude forms of simple DNA may form in those regions of space together with stars. That DNA may have come to earth with meteorites and not necessarily meteorites from Mars ;-))). If this is true, that life throughout the universe may look quite similar since it came into being in the same way. Cheers, Axel From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 28 09:02:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Fri May 28 08:02:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds Message-ID: Good morning Axel Not sure what "Timeline" is - movie, or tv program? Have not watched tv since the 1980's, and go to the movies at most once a year. I'm basically musing philosophically. I understand the idea that I need at least a couple of molecular crystal's worth of atoms for a hardness test. But there is this: nobody has ever seen an atom. Or an electron. We go into the lab, twist some dials and set some switches, and obtain some numbers or pictures from those instruments, and we say: Aha! At this place at this moment in time was an atom of such and such. On the other hand, we can see with our own eyes a hardness test. The hardness test is as real as anything is to us. The theoretical atoms and their nucleons and electrons are somewhat different - their reality cannot do without some sort of guess about what is behind a door we can never open. Which brings me to the punchline: why, when hardness is as real as anything can be, must it be excluded from existing beyond some level we can never see, when we at the same time assume all sorts of things to exist beyond that level? I think you have me wondering now if I'm a closet phlogiston follower! Berj >From: "Axel Emmermann" >Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >To: >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds >Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:30:03 +0200 > >Yo Berj > >Hahaaa! You saw "Timeline" too... or read the book... confess or I shall >expose you to a picture of me! (think I need a shrink now) > >To answer your question: I really wouldn't know since I'm not a scientist. >I >guess you mean that the universe becomes anisotropic when you look at it on >a scale that is even much smaller than the elementary particles? Remember >that anything smaller than the smallest possible crystal (you need several >atoms to build a crystal) of a mineral substance is NOT that mineral >substance. >For example: the mineral potassium alum KAl(SO4)2.12H2O has 48 atoms in its >formula but the smallest possible crystal (the unit cell) contains 192 >atoms. Anything smaller than that would not be the mineral potassium alum >but only the chemical substance alum. >You can determine the hardness of a mineral or even manmade materials but >you have to have at least two molecules to do it. Stripping matter from >only >one molecule would not be measuring hardness but rather testing the >strength >of chemical bonds. > > > Here's a different tack: is it conceivable to say that an "infinitely >soft" > > substance, a theoretical one anyway, is essentially immune to one of >any > > hardness? It would just get out of the way. > >Now you lost me ;-))) > >Cheers > >Axel > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Berj N. Ensanian" >To: >Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 5:54 AM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds > > > > > > > > Hi Axel > > > > I'm weak on the astrophysics at the moment. However, to jump past that >for >a > > bit: would not socalled quantum foam be even harder than a black hole? > > > > Here's a different tack: is it conceivable to say that an "infinitely >soft" > > substance, a theoretical one anyway, is essentially immune to one of >any > > hardness? It would just get out of the way. > > > > Berj > > > > > > > > >From: "Axel Emmermann" > > >Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > >To: > > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds > > >Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 22:48:33 +0200 > > > > > >Hi Berj > > > > >What I THINK that would happen is this: > > >Both neutron stars would gravitationally bind each other. If they are >so > > >close that they "graze" each other they would immediately fuse together >in > > >a > > >violent flash of gamma rays. > > >Since a neutron star forms when the Chandrasekhar mass limit is crossed > > >(1.4 > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! > > http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _________________________________________________________________ Get 200+ ad-free, high-fidelity stations and LIVE Major League Baseball Gameday Audio! http://radio.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200491ave/direct/01/ From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 28 09:27:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri May 28 08:27:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds References: Message-ID: <008501c444c8$26b858a0$6402a8c0@axel> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Berj N. Ensanian" To: Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 5:01 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds > > > Good morning Axel > > Not sure what "Timeline" is - movie, or tv program? Have not watched tv > since the 1980's, and go to the movies at most once a year. > > I'm basically musing philosophically. I understand the idea that I need at > least a couple of molecular crystal's worth of atoms for a hardness test. > But there is this: nobody has ever seen an atom. Or an electron. We go into > the lab, twist some dials and set some switches, and obtain some numbers or > pictures from those instruments, and we say: Aha! At this place at this > moment in time was an atom of such and such. On the other hand, we can see > with our own eyes a hardness test. The hardness test is as real as anything > is to us. The theoretical atoms and their nucleons and electrons are > somewhat different - their reality cannot do without some sort of guess > about what is behind a door we can never open. Which brings me to the > punchline: > > why, when hardness is as real as anything can be, must it be excluded from > existing beyond some level we can never see, when we at the same time assume > all sorts of things to exist beyond that level? > > I think you have me wondering now if I'm a closet phlogiston follower! > > Berj > > > >From: "Axel Emmermann" > >Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > >To: > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds > >Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:30:03 +0200 > > > >Yo Berj > > > >Hahaaa! You saw "Timeline" too... or read the book... confess or I shall > >expose you to a picture of me! (think I need a shrink now) > > > >To answer your question: I really wouldn't know since I'm not a scientist. > >I > >guess you mean that the universe becomes anisotropic when you look at it on > >a scale that is even much smaller than the elementary particles? Remember > >that anything smaller than the smallest possible crystal (you need several > >atoms to build a crystal) of a mineral substance is NOT that mineral > >substance. > >For example: the mineral potassium alum KAl(SO4)2.12H2O has 48 atoms in its > >formula but the smallest possible crystal (the unit cell) contains 192 > >atoms. Anything smaller than that would not be the mineral potassium alum > >but only the chemical substance alum. > >You can determine the hardness of a mineral or even manmade materials but > >you have to have at least two molecules to do it. Stripping matter from > >only > >one molecule would not be measuring hardness but rather testing the > >strength > >of chemical bonds. > > > > > Here's a different tack: is it conceivable to say that an "infinitely > >soft" > > > substance, a theoretical one anyway, is essentially immune to one of > >any > > > hardness? It would just get out of the way. > > > >Now you lost me ;-))) > > > >Cheers > > > >Axel > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Berj N. Ensanian" > >To: > >Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 5:54 AM > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Axel > > > > > > I'm weak on the astrophysics at the moment. However, to jump past that > >for > >a > > > bit: would not socalled quantum foam be even harder than a black hole? > > > > > > Here's a different tack: is it conceivable to say that an "infinitely > >soft" > > > substance, a theoretical one anyway, is essentially immune to one of > >any > > > hardness? It would just get out of the way. > > > > > > Berj > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Axel Emmermann" > > > >Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > > >To: > > > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds > > > >Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 22:48:33 +0200 > > > > > > > >Hi Berj > > > > > > >What I THINK that would happen is this: > > > >Both neutron stars would gravitationally bind each other. If they are > >so > > > >close that they "graze" each other they would immediately fuse together > >in > > > >a > > > >violent flash of gamma rays. > > > >Since a neutron star forms when the Chandrasekhar mass limit is crossed > > > >(1.4 > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! > > > http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get 200+ ad-free, high-fidelity stations and LIVE Major League Baseball > Gameday Audio! http://radio.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200491ave/direct/01/ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 28 09:55:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri May 28 08:55:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well actually atoms have been seen. Bryan Lex et Libertas -- Semper Vigilo, Paratus, et Fidelis! > > Good morning Axel > > Not sure what "Timeline" is - movie, or tv program? Have not watched tv > since the 1980's, and go to the movies at most once a year. > > I'm basically musing philosophically. I understand the idea that > I need at > least a couple of molecular crystal's worth of atoms for a hardness test. > But there is this: nobody has ever seen an atom. Or an electron. > We go into > the lab, twist some dials and set some switches, and obtain some > numbers or > pictures from those instruments, and we say: Aha! At this place at this > moment in time was an atom of such and such. On the other hand, > we can see > with our own eyes a hardness test. The hardness test is as real > as anything > is to us. The theoretical atoms and their nucleons and electrons are > somewhat different - their reality cannot do without some sort of guess > about what is behind a door we can never open. Which brings me to the > punchline: > > why, when hardness is as real as anything can be, must it be > excluded from > existing beyond some level we can never see, when we at the same > time assume > all sorts of things to exist beyond that level? > > I think you have me wondering now if I'm a closet phlogiston follower! > > Berj > > > >From: "Axel Emmermann" > >Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > >To: > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds > >Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:30:03 +0200 > > > >Yo Berj > > > >Hahaaa! You saw "Timeline" too... or read the book... confess or I shall > >expose you to a picture of me! (think I need a shrink now) > > > >To answer your question: I really wouldn't know since I'm not a > scientist. > >I > >guess you mean that the universe becomes anisotropic when you > look at it on > >a scale that is even much smaller than the elementary particles? Remember > >that anything smaller than the smallest possible crystal (you > need several > >atoms to build a crystal) of a mineral substance is NOT that mineral > >substance. > >For example: the mineral potassium alum KAl(SO4)2.12H2O has 48 > atoms in its > >formula but the smallest possible crystal (the unit cell) contains 192 > >atoms. Anything smaller than that would not be the mineral potassium alum > >but only the chemical substance alum. > >You can determine the hardness of a mineral or even manmade materials but > >you have to have at least two molecules to do it. Stripping matter from > >only > >one molecule would not be measuring hardness but rather testing the > >strength > >of chemical bonds. > > > > > Here's a different tack: is it conceivable to say that an "infinitely > >soft" > > > substance, a theoretical one anyway, is essentially immune to one of > >any > > > hardness? It would just get out of the way. > > > >Now you lost me ;-))) > > > >Cheers > > > >Axel > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Berj N. Ensanian" > >To: > >Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 5:54 AM > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Axel > > > > > > I'm weak on the astrophysics at the moment. However, to jump > past that > >for > >a > > > bit: would not socalled quantum foam be even harder than a black hole? > > > > > > Here's a different tack: is it conceivable to say that an "infinitely > >soft" > > > substance, a theoretical one anyway, is essentially immune to one of > >any > > > hardness? It would just get out of the way. > > > > > > Berj > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Axel Emmermann" > > > >Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > > >To: > > > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds > > > >Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 22:48:33 +0200 > > > > > > > >Hi Berj > > > > > > >What I THINK that would happen is this: > > > >Both neutron stars would gravitationally bind each other. If > they are > >so > > > >close that they "graze" each other they would immediately > fuse together > >in > > > >a > > > >violent flash of gamma rays. > > > >Since a neutron star forms when the Chandrasekhar mass limit > is crossed > > > >(1.4 > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! > > > http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get 200+ ad-free, high-fidelity stations and LIVE Major League Baseball > Gameday Audio! http://radio.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200491ave/direct/01/ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 28 09:59:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri May 28 08:59:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds References: Message-ID: <008d01c444cc$b2690260$6402a8c0@axel> Berj, if you haven't seen "timeline" then don't bother... it's a film by Richard Donner (Lethal Weapon 1 thru 4) that is VERY loosely based on Michael Creighton excellent novel with the same title... Creighton uses quantum foam to transport the protagonists to the middle ages. The film isn't worth seeing imho, not if you read the book ;-))) > why, when hardness is as real as anything can be, must it be excluded from > existing beyond some level we can never see, when we at the same time assume > all sorts of things to exist beyond that level? Because hardness is a property of the macroscopic world. If you enter the realm of the subatomic you have to apply a different set of rules... look at things like Heisenberg did and you'll see what I mean... Example: If you want to test the hardness of an atom you would have to scratch it. Suppose you had a needle that ends in a point of only one atom thick and that you could see "real-time" what you were doing through a tunneling electron microscope. The moment that you touch the atom with your needle it would be kicked away by the force you applied... Where would it fly off to? Then if you found it again: the outside of an atom is made of electrons that soar around the nucleus at half the speed of light or even faster... if you made a scratch in the moving mantle of electrons it would very much be like scratching the surface of a drop of mercury... . The scratch would last for less time than you 'd need to retract the needle. You could ask what the universe was like before time existed... There is no answer because the question is flawed A classic mistake... trying to apply the laws of classic mechanics to the subatomic world will raise problems that cannot be solved. Hardness is measured by looking how easily a substance is taken apart. An atom is the smallest possible part of a substance and cannot be taken apart without changing it's nature. Think of it like scratching a car and by doing so changing it into a tulip instantanously. Now, what is the hardness of the car? Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Berj N. Ensanian" To: Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 5:01 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds > > > Good morning Axel > > Not sure what "Timeline" is - movie, or tv program? Have not watched tv > since the 1980's, and go to the movies at most once a year. > > I'm basically musing philosophically. I understand the idea that I need at > least a couple of molecular crystal's worth of atoms for a hardness test. > But there is this: nobody has ever seen an atom. Or an electron. We go into > the lab, twist some dials and set some switches, and obtain some numbers or > pictures from those instruments, and we say: Aha! At this place at this > moment in time was an atom of such and such. On the other hand, we can see > with our own eyes a hardness test. The hardness test is as real as anything > is to us. The theoretical atoms and their nucleons and electrons are > somewhat different - their reality cannot do without some sort of guess > about what is behind a door we can never open. Which brings me to the > punchline: > > why, when hardness is as real as anything can be, must it be excluded from > existing beyond some level we can never see, when we at the same time assume > all sorts of things to exist beyond that level? > > I think you have me wondering now if I'm a closet phlogiston follower! > > Berj > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 28 10:01:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri May 28 09:01:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] astronomy and rockhounds [was ultrahard diamonds] In-Reply-To: <003101c44494$7659c620$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: I think, IIRC, that Pu has been found naturally occurring in micro trace quantities. Should be some around those natural reactors in Africa. Ah so here is a reference, both Pu and Np have been found: http://pearl1.lanl.gov/periodic/elements/94.html Bryan Lex et Libertas -- Semper Vigilo, Paratus, et Fidelis! > > > Hi John, > > >I find it very > > interesting that down here at the "frozen energy level" that the > > elements are present, and increase systematically by just one proton > > from one to the next, 1 to 104+. Why should that be? > > It isn't... ;-( > > >Is there any > > reason that there shouldn't be gaps or jumps? Obviously there is a > > reason that there should be no gaps, because that is what is observed. > > But why? > > Look at the periodic table: there is no Technetium in nature. We make it > ourselves but it is not found in rocks. > Francium is another weird element. At any given time there is > only 27 grams > of it in the totality of our planets mass. > Past element 92 (U), all elements are either manmade or they > occur in exotic > places such as supernovas (some neptunium seems to have been found in > Tsjernobyl). It looks like some configurations of neutrons an protons are > stable while others are not. Most elements have at least one > stable isotope > but not all. The trans-uranium elements have none. However, there seems to > be a stable range of synthetic elements with superheavy nuclei. They are > produced by allowing heavy elements to absorb very slow moving neutrons > (fast neutrons hitting the superheavy nucleus would cause fission because > the strong interaction between the particles in the nucleus is > spread pretty > thin.) > > > > I wonder if the origin of life is also axiomatic in the end, at least in > > the scientific sense. -- SNIP -- > > I have a pretty lonely view on the origin of life... almost > everybody thinks > I'm crazy but since I have no scientific reputation to defend or protect, > I'll share it with you. > We all know the chemical dioxin. Highly poisonous, carcinogen and > impossible > to remove from our ecosystem. The reason for its existence simply is > "entropy". It is the most stable end product of combustion of organic > matter. Therefore it spreads throughout our environment. > What happens in dark clouds of matter (globules) in space, where new stars > are formed? Atoms collide and form radicals that form more > complex molecules > that are usually destroyed by the UV-radiation of nearby stars. > But is such > a globule collapses and gets really dense, those molecules have a > chance of > surviving. Peptides and amino acids may form. Those are stable! We know of > life in water that is hotter than 300° C. > I think that crude forms of simple DNA may form in those regions of space > together with stars. That DNA may have come to earth with > meteorites and not > necessarily meteorites from Mars ;-))). > If this is true, that life throughout the universe may look quite similar > since it came into being in the same way. > > Cheers, > > Axel > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 28 10:03:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri May 28 09:03:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sure it's called a gas. Bryan Lex et Libertas -- Semper Vigilo, Paratus, et Fidelis! > > Hi Axel > > I'm weak on the astrophysics at the moment. However, to jump past > that for a > bit: would not socalled quantum foam be even harder than a black hole? > > Here's a different tack: is it conceivable to say that an > "infinitely soft" > substance, a theoretical one anyway, is essentially immune to one of any > hardness? It would just get out of the way. > > Berj > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 28 10:26:06 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Stephen Stover) Date: Fri May 28 09:26:06 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] astronomy and rockhounds [was ultrahard diamonds] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040528162543.77148.qmail@web20025.mail.yahoo.com> --snip-- > > I have a pretty lonely view on the origin of > life... almost > > everybody thinks > > I'm crazy but since I have no scientific > reputation to defend or protect, > > I'll share it with you. > > We all know the chemical dioxin. Highly poisonous, > carcinogen and > > impossible > > to remove from our ecosystem. The reason for its > existence simply is > > "entropy". It is the most stable end product of > combustion of organic > > matter. Therefore it spreads throughout our > environment. > > What happens in dark clouds of matter (globules) > in space, where new stars > > are formed? Atoms collide and form radicals that > form more > > complex molecules > > that are usually destroyed by the UV-radiation of > nearby stars. > > But is such > > a globule collapses and gets really dense, those > molecules have a > > chance of > > surviving. Peptides and amino acids may form. > Those are stable! We know of > > life in water that is hotter than 300° C. > > I think that crude forms of simple DNA may form in > those regions of space > > together with stars. That DNA may have come to > earth with > > meteorites and not > > necessarily meteorites from Mars ;-))). > > If this is true, that life throughout the universe > may look quite similar > > since it came into being in the same way. > > goota disagree. Look at the early life on earth (Barnett shale) Life produces some pretty wierd forms that lasted a long wihiel (millions of years) even look at bacteria and the forms are pretty bizzare. I think as long as a few necessary things occur I think intelligent life, if there is any, and I am talking above bacterial form. Will be radically differet. I think locomotion, sensing an environment and depth perception are the only three true critical concepts. The molecules that make up life molecule may be similar but the form of the body will be radically different. Now lets add another variable in. That is life based on carbon. You could easily have life based on Silicon and it may think this palnet is to cold and venus is just right. or lets go the other way and have a life based on hydrogen in a nitrogen sea. Then pluto may look comfortable. Be careful to assume most life is carbon based. nature in all its complexity is to great. In phlosphy class we looked at certain clays and fire as a possible life. ===== Stephen F. Stover PH (281) 829-1102 xossfs@yahoo.com Wanting to hunt rocks and play games every day! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 28 10:46:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Fri May 28 09:46:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rocks: Puzzling micro-formations and dynamic effects Message-ID: Hi everyone Recently I've encountered a couple of very peculiar rocks (handheld specimens). Experimenting with them the enigma they present has only increased. I've done a lot of investigating, and at this point I still do not have a comprehensive explanation for these rocks. One university professor with expertise in fossils who I corresponded with suggested Bryozoans may be involved, and I am embarking on studying those. However, the deeper mystery involves dynamic effects which are observable in the rocks now. Some of you may know something. Also there is plenty of interesting experimental possibility here, and the necessary resources required are quite modest. If you are interested, take a look: http://www.executive-express.com/rockformations.htm Have a safe and happy holiday! Berj _________________________________________________________________ Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 28 12:14:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri May 28 11:14:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] astronomy and rockhounds [was ultrahard diamonds] References: <20040528162543.77148.qmail@web20025.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00a801c444df$6f1528f0$6402a8c0@axel> > The molecules that make up life molecule may be > similar but the form of the body will be radically > different. Yes, but some things will probly be universal... like: even number of legs and eyes... symmetric build... not the kind of nightmare that are frequently served on Star Trek ;-))) > Now lets add another variable in. That is life based > on carbon. You could easily have life based on > Silicon I don't think so. To begin with, carbon is ten times more abundant in our solar system than silicon. Further, it is possible to build a silicon chemistry that would lead to life... in theory. Still, a carbon based chemistry is much more reactive and would take over in no time. I guess it's the survival of the fittest on a molecular level. Even in hot springs that are saturated with silica, it is carbon based life that prevales. > In phlosphy class we looked at certain clays and fire > as a possible life. That would need some explaining... You lost me there. I would also be carefull not to cross over from philisofy to biology. That would be as dangerous as mixing religion with ethics... one tends to overprotect a frame of mind that does not root in sience but rather in conviction or ideology. Cheers Axel > > ===== > Stephen F. Stover > PH (281) 829-1102 > xossfs@yahoo.com > > Wanting to hunt rocks > and play games every day! > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 28 14:01:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Jim Daly) Date: Fri May 28 13:01:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] astronomy and rockhounds [was ultrahard diamonds] References: <20040528162543.77148.qmail@web20025.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001a01c444ed$58c28ee0$105204d0@jim> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Stover" To: Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] astronomy and rockhounds [was ultrahard diamonds] > > --snip-- > > > I have a pretty lonely view on the origin of > > life... almost > > > everybody thinks > > > I'm crazy but since I have no scientific > > reputation to defend or protect, > > > I'll share it with you. > > > We all know the chemical dioxin. Highly poisonous, > > carcinogen and > > > impossible > > > to remove from our ecosystem. The reason for its > > existence simply is > > > "entropy". It is the most stable end product of > > combustion of organic > > > matter. Therefore it spreads throughout our > > environment. Not quite true. First of all, only some dioxins are carcinogenic. Secondly, all dioxins are easily incinerated. They decompose completely in a good modern incinerator. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales Microminerals and mounting supplies http://www.sauktown.com sauktown@adsnet.com or orders@sauktown.com From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 28 14:43:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri May 28 13:43:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] astronomy and rockhounds [was ultrahard diamonds] References: <20040528162543.77148.qmail@web20025.mail.yahoo.com> <001a01c444ed$58c28ee0$105204d0@jim> Message-ID: <00db01c444f4$3f7f1aa0$6402a8c0@axel> > Not quite true. First of all, only some dioxins are carcinogenic. Secondly, > all dioxins are easily incinerated. They decompose completely in a good > modern incinerator. True, Jim, but a modern incinerator is hardly a natural combustion proces. If you look at all combustion on the entire planet, what would be the fraction contributed by complete incineration in modern industrial incinerators? Dioxins are found on Antarctica where there are no fires (except perhaps a few volcanoes). Axel From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 28 17:48:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Joe Davis) Date: Fri May 28 16:48:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] astronomy and rockhounds In-Reply-To: <004501c44473$b18f41a0$5ba4490c@pete> Message-ID: How about some more info on the location/quality of the chalcedony geodes. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) message/rfc822 --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 28 20:56:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Fred Olmstead) Date: Fri May 28 19:56:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Two w/pins In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40B7FEC9.9000109@rcn.com> From GeorgiaO the two rocks w/pins the one on the right looks like crinoid Do you have a book on fossil plants from the area?! __..--..__..--..__ Berj N. Ensanian wrote: > > > Hi everyone > > Recently I've encountered a couple of very peculiar rocks (handheld > specimens). Experimenting with them the enigma they present has only > increased. I've done a lot of investigating, and at this point I still > do not have a comprehensive explanation for these rocks. One > university professor with expertise in fossils who I corresponded with > suggested Bryozoans may be involved, and I am embarking on studying > those. However, the deeper mystery involves dynamic effects which are > observable in the rocks now. > > Some of you may know something. Also there is plenty of interesting > experimental possibility here, and the necessary resources required > are quite modest. If you are interested, take a look: > > http://www.executive-express.com/rockformations.htm > > Have a safe and happy holiday! > > Berj > > _________________________________________________________________ > Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra > Storage! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 28 22:41:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Fri May 28 21:41:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Two w/pins Message-ID: I've seen crinoids in this area and they are fairly big - look nothing like the objects. I do not have a book on our area's fossil plants; actually I doubt there is one. I have at least one opinion that the immediate sediments here are from the late Devonian. Berj >From: Fred Olmstead >Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Subject: [Rockhounds] Two w/pins >Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 23:08:57 -0400 > >From GeorgiaO > >the two rocks w/pins >the one on the right looks like crinoid > >Do you have a book on fossil plants from the area?! > >__..--..__..--..__ > > >Berj N. Ensanian wrote: > >> >> >>Hi everyone >> >>Recently I've encountered a couple of very peculiar rocks (handheld >>specimens). Experimenting with them the enigma they present has only >>increased. I've done a lot of investigating, and at this point I still do >>not have a comprehensive explanation for these rocks. One university >>professor with expertise in fossils who I corresponded with suggested >>Bryozoans may be involved, and I am embarking on studying those. However, >>the deeper mystery involves dynamic effects which are observable in the >>rocks now. >> >>Some of you may know something. Also there is plenty of interesting >>experimental possibility here, and the necessary resources required are >>quite modest. If you are interested, take a look: >> >>http://www.executive-express.com/rockformations.htm >> >>Have a safe and happy holiday! >> >>Berj >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra >>Storage! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Fri May 28 23:04:22 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Fri May 28 22:04:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls ??? Message-ID: <76.3c5590b6.2de973af@aol.com> I've heard from various sources that if you that Arizona apache tears and heat them, they will expand to many times their original size. Has anyone else heard of such a process and if so, how it is accomplished? Thank you T. McGinnis --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 29 00:01:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Jimmy Kuo) Date: Fri May 28 23:01:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls ??? References: <76.3c5590b6.2de973af@aol.com> Message-ID: <056f01c44542$2d1e6020$7f7f7f7f@eur.nai.com> Google comes up with this. True or not, I don't know: http://www.ganoksin.com/orchid/archive/200101/msg00088.htm Jimmy ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:03 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls ??? > I've heard from various sources that if you that Arizona apache tears and > heat them, they will expand to many times their original size. Has anyone else > heard of such a process and if so, how it is accomplished? > > Thank you > > T. McGinnis From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 29 05:55:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Sat May 29 04:55:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Two w/pins References: <40B7FEC9.9000109@rcn.com> Message-ID: <001e01c44573$a52aaed0$6401a8c0@Junior> Great website, I haven't laughed that hard all day! Let us know the responses when you post this one to alt.fan.paranormal, ought to be priceless. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals at: http://www.element51.com Ontario minerals at: http://www.ontariominerals.com ----- Original Message ----- > Berj N. Ensanian wrote: > > > > > > > Hi everyone > > > > Recently I've encountered a couple of very peculiar rocks (handheld > > specimens). Experimenting with them the enigma they present has only > > increased. I've done a lot of investigating, and at this point I still > > do not have a comprehensive explanation for these rocks. One > > university professor with expertise in fossils who I corresponded with > > suggested Bryozoans may be involved, and I am embarking on studying > > those. However, the deeper mystery involves dynamic effects which are > > observable in the rocks now. > > > > Some of you may know something. Also there is plenty of interesting > > experimental possibility here, and the necessary resources required > > are quite modest. If you are interested, take a look: > > > > http://www.executive-express.com/rockformations.htm > > > > Have a safe and happy holiday! > > > > Berj From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 29 05:58:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Sat May 29 04:58:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls ??? References: <76.3c5590b6.2de973af@aol.com> <056f01c44542$2d1e6020$7f7f7f7f@eur.nai.com> Message-ID: <002501c44574$1e633ec0$6401a8c0@Junior> Damn, if it's true, that would be a cool experiment, please, somebody with the proper oven try this today and report back. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals at: http://www.element51.com Ontario minerals at: http://www.ontariominerals.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jimmy Kuo" To: Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 1:59 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls ??? > Google comes up with this. True or not, I don't know: > > http://www.ganoksin.com/orchid/archive/200101/msg00088.htm > > Jimmy > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:03 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls ??? > > > > I've heard from various sources that if you that Arizona apache tears and > > heat them, they will expand to many times their original size. Has anyone > else > > heard of such a process and if so, how it is accomplished? > > > > Thank you > > > > T. McGinnis > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 29 07:19:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sat May 29 06:19:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rocks: Puzzling micro-formations and dynamic effects References: Message-ID: <00f101c4457f$69b99670$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Could be bryozoans, it is hard to say for certain. It also resembles the peculiar coral Tetradium, which existed in the Ordovician, but not the Devonian. The corallites for Tetradium are about the size of the largest bryozoan apertures. Alan Goldstein ----- Original Message ----- From: "Berj N. Ensanian" To: Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 12:45 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Rocks: Puzzling micro-formations and dynamic effects > > > Hi everyone > > Recently I've encountered a couple of very peculiar rocks (handheld > specimens). Experimenting with them the enigma they present has only > increased. I've done a lot of investigating, and at this point I still do > not have a comprehensive explanation for these rocks. One university > professor with expertise in fossils who I corresponded with suggested > Bryozoans may be involved, and I am embarking on studying those. However, > the deeper mystery involves dynamic effects which are observable in the > rocks now. > > Some of you may know something. Also there is plenty of interesting > experimental possibility here, and the necessary resources required are > quite modest. If you are interested, take a look: > > http://www.executive-express.com/rockformations.htm > > Have a safe and happy holiday! > > Berj > > _________________________________________________________________ > Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! > http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 29 07:37:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (john) Date: Sat May 29 06:37:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls ??? In-Reply-To: <76.3c5590b6.2de973af@aol.com> References: <76.3c5590b6.2de973af@aol.com> Message-ID: <40B88DF5.4060907@hal-pc.org> MCGINNISG@aol.com wrote: >I've heard from various sources that if you that Arizona apache tears and >heat them, they will expand to many times their original size. Has anyone else >heard of such a process and if so, how it is accomplished? > >Thank you > >T. McGinnis > > > These are not really "apache tears", which are low-water obsidians. These are perlite, which is at the high-water content end of rhyolite outflows. They are the "cores" of the original deposit, which probably weathered destructively in all directions leaving a litter of expanded material and these "tears". john From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 29 07:47:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sat May 29 06:47:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls ??? Message-ID: <12f.42c543d1.2de9ee38@aol.com> Yes, I have seen them done this way, and they used real apache tears. Dave --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 29 07:57:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (john) Date: Sat May 29 06:57:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] astronomy and rockhounds [was ultrahard diamonds] In-Reply-To: <003101c44494$7659c620$6402a8c0@axel> References: <40B56B33.30C3@Tomaszewski.net> <6.0.3.0.0.20040526202848.02fb1220@mail.aloha.net> <00e801c443d8$87003070$6402a8c0@axel> <40B66E99.3010906@hal-pc.org> <003101c44494$7659c620$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: <40B89292.8090702@hal-pc.org> Axel Emmermann wrote: >Hi John, > > > >>I find it very interesting that down here at the "frozen energy level" that the >>elements are present, and increase systematically by just one proton >>from one to the next, 1 to 104+. Why should that be? >> >> > >It isn't... ;-( > > > >>Is there any >>reason that there shouldn't be gaps or jumps? Obviously there is a >>reason that there should be no gaps, because that is what is observed. >>But why? >> >> > >Look at the periodic table: there is no Technetium in nature. We make it >ourselves but it is not found in rocks. >Francium is another weird element. At any given time there is only 27 grams >of it in the totality of our planets mass. > >Past element 92 (U), all elements are either manmade or they occur in exotic >places such as supernovas (some neptunium seems to have been found in >Tsjernobyl). It looks like some configurations of neutrons an protons are >stable while others are not. Most elements have at least one stable isotope >but not all. The trans-uranium elements have none. However, there seems to >be a stable range of synthetic elements with superheavy nuclei. They are >produced by allowing heavy elements to absorb very slow moving neutrons >(fast neutrons hitting the superheavy nucleus would cause fission because >the strong interaction between the particles in the nucleus is spread pretty >thin.) > > > True. But we can make them. There seems to be no natural law that makes them forbidden. > > >>I wonder if the origin of life is also axiomatic in the end, at least in >>the scientific sense. -- SNIP -- >> >> > >I have a pretty lonely view on the origin of life... almost everybody thinks >I'm crazy but since I have no scientific reputation to defend or protect, >I'll share it with you. >We all know the chemical dioxin. Highly poisonous, carcinogen and impossible >to remove from our ecosystem. The reason for its existence simply is >"entropy". It is the most stable end product of combustion of organic >matter. Therefore it spreads throughout our environment. >What happens in dark clouds of matter (globules) in space, where new stars >are formed? Atoms collide and form radicals that form more complex molecules >that are usually destroyed by the UV-radiation of nearby stars. But is such >a globule collapses and gets really dense, those molecules have a chance of >surviving. Peptides and amino acids may form. Those are stable! We know of >life in water that is hotter than 300° C. >I think that crude forms of simple DNA may form in those regions of space >together with stars. That DNA may have come to earth with meteorites and not >necessarily meteorites from Mars ;-))). >If this is true, that life throughout the universe may look quite similar >since it came into being in the same way. > >Cheers, > >Axel > > > If the laws of physics and chemistry are universal, which is our assumption, then maybe so. But I would not be so bold as to say what combinations or fragments are stable over long periods in inter-stellar environments. How about calculating the probability of any or all of them coming together in the right combination and at the right place to produce "life" in the 14-odd billion years since BB? This is a more reasonable hypothesis for a steady-state universe. john From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 29 08:03:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sat May 29 07:03:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] astronomy and rockhounds [was ultrahard diamonds] References: <20040528162543.77148.qmail@web20025.mail.yahoo.com> <001a01c444ed$58c28ee0$105204d0@jim> <00db01c444f4$3f7f1aa0$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: <003601c44584$70315f60$595204d0@jim> Quite true. My point was that the really nasty dioxins being made today are generally by-products of the manufacture of some other chemical, and can now be safely disposed of. What has gotten into the environment in the past (before the dangers were known) are another story. At least, when areas with serious contamination are found, they can be cleaned up by incineration. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] astronomy and rockhounds [was ultrahard diamonds] > > Not quite true. First of all, only some dioxins are carcinogenic. > Secondly, > > all dioxins are easily incinerated. They decompose completely in a good > > modern incinerator. > > True, Jim, but a modern incinerator is hardly a natural combustion proces. > If you look at all combustion on the entire planet, what would be the > fraction contributed by complete incineration in modern industrial > incinerators? > Dioxins are found on Antarctica where there are no fires (except perhaps a > few volcanoes). > > Axel > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 29 08:26:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (john) Date: Sat May 29 07:26:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] astronomy and rockhounds [was ultrahard diamonds] In-Reply-To: <20040528162543.77148.qmail@web20025.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040528162543.77148.qmail@web20025.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40B89951.7050909@hal-pc.org> Stephen Stover wrote: >--snip-- > > >>>I have a pretty lonely view on the origin of >>> >>> >>life... almost >> >> >>>everybody thinks >>>I'm crazy but since I have no scientific >>> >>> >>reputation to defend or protect, >> >> >>>I'll share it with you. >>>We all know the chemical dioxin. Highly poisonous, >>> >>> >>carcinogen and >> >> >>>impossible >>>to remove from our ecosystem. The reason for its >>> >>> >>existence simply is >> >> >>>"entropy". It is the most stable end product of >>> >>> >>combustion of organic >> >> >>>matter. Therefore it spreads throughout our >>> >>> >>environment. >> >> >> >goota disagree. Look at the early life on earth >(Barnett shale) Life produces some pretty wierd forms >that lasted a long wihiel (millions of years) even >look at bacteria and the forms are pretty bizzare. I >think as long as a few necessary things occur I think >intelligent life, if there is any, and I am talking >above bacterial form. Will be radically differet. I >think locomotion, sensing an environment and depth >perception are the only three true critical concepts. >The molecules that make up life molecule may be >similar but the form of the body will be radically >different. > >Now lets add another variable in. That is life based >on carbon. You could easily have life based on >Silicon and >it may think this palnet is to cold and venus is just >right. or lets go the other way and have a life based >on hydrogen in a nitrogen sea. Then pluto may look >comfortable. Be careful to assume most life is carbon >based. nature in all its complexity is to great. > > What is life anyway? It is something that happens in specific environments. It is easy to show thermodynamically that complexity arises in an open-energy system and not in a closed-energy system. Therefore a system such as the sun streaming energy past the Earth is a first criterion. Now what is the range of things that can happen when basic elements can become arranged by free energy? If one happens to have a lot of C, H, N, and O around, and the energy flow is not too high or too low, then these elements can form soups which may or may not give rise to "life", but at least they are plausable candidates. It would take a much higher energy flow to roduce a silicon-based "life" and silicon has one critical property missing: CO(2) is a gas that freely distributes itself in the environment. SiO(2) is sand. The availability for reactions is very limited unless one has very high temperatures. And at those temperatures, Si reacts to form rocks, not mobile forms. Yes, rocks may have "mind" and even intelligence, but it is not the kind we are familiar with. Considering a N, H system, there is probably not enough disparate elements available to create more than a minimal complexity. There may be a kind of life within such a system, but it would probably be indetectable by us. >In phlosphy class we looked at certain clays and fire >as a possible life > > ===== Stephen F. Stover PH (281) 829-1102 xossfs@yahoo.com Hmmm...now where would the animation come from in silicates (clay) and free energy (heat) without other elements present to arrange? john From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 29 09:23:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (john) Date: Sat May 29 08:23:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ultrahard diamonds In-Reply-To: <005301c4442b$fc24d010$6402a8c0@axel> References: <005301c4442b$fc24d010$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: <40B8A6C1.9090304@hal-pc.org> Axel Emmermann wrote: >Hi Berj > > > >>But lets assume hardness >>generally means some relative change from before and after, of two grazing >>objects, the object less changed being the harder one. If we allow that >>change takes place in space and time, then after a grazing encounter >> >> >between > > >>two neutron stars one may oscillate more violently and longer than the >>other, and so it could be said to be the "softer"; >> >> > >What I THINK that would happen is this: >Both neutron stars would gravitationally bind each other. If they are so >close that they "graze" each other they would immediately fuse together in a >violent flash of gamma rays. >Since a neutron star forms when the Chandrasekhar mass limit is crossed (1.4 >solar masses), the sum of two neutron stars would be at least 2.8 solar >masses. >If I remember correctly, the maximum mass that degenerate neutron pressure >can withstand is about 2.7 solar masses. Ergo: the fusion of these two >"atomic nuclei" would almost certainly yield a black hole >But I'm rather good in telling stories so I think some confirmation is >warranted here ;-))) > >Now, a black hole will rip matter off ANYTHING so, in a way, it is the >hardest thing in the universe. > >Cheers > >Axel > > I can't imagine two neutron stars of exactly the same mass. Therefore when they came close to each other, one would start the process of drawing mass from the other and there would be a big explosion long before they were close enough to "graze". And since both were formed from supernovas apart one from the other, they would both have to be under the strong gravitational force of some other object to bring them so close together (discounting the random encounter). That object would probably be ripping mass from both of them if the star density were that great! Could we get a game of cosmic billiards going here? Of course, most of the stars in this beehive would not be neutron stars. The heavier ones would be taking out the lighter in a system that might involve thousands or millions of stars all reacting with one another at the same time. Where on earth(;-)) would one put the instruments to measure anything, even a pair of eyes? john From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 29 09:23:12 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (john) Date: Sat May 29 08:23:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] astronomy and rockhounds In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40B8A6CB.7020507@hal-pc.org> Joe Davis wrote: >How about some more info on the location/quality of the chalcedony geodes. > > > I would speculate that he is referring to Clanton Canyon/Clanton Draw. john From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 29 11:03:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Lanny) Date: Sat May 29 10:03:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls ??? In-Reply-To: <40B88DF5.4060907@hal-pc.org> References: <76.3c5590b6.2de973af@aol.com> <40B88DF5.4060907@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: To expand a little on John's explanation. Perlite is useful because of this expandable property of this high water content volcanic glass, or obsidian. A typical perlite deposit has already partially devitrified so that it is no longer a solid mass of obsidian but is a deposit of gray poorly crystallized minerals with various sized pieces of the black obsidian remaining. Eventually (thousands of years) the deposit will be nothing but fine grained clays, glassy particles and small rounded bits of obsidian (Apache tears), and later nothing but clays (and or other fine grained minerals). Perlite is mined, heated and the expanded product used in planting soil mixes and also as a low grade insulation because of its foam-like nature. As the website states, it will float because it is now an exanded foamy, air-filled "rock," much like pumice. I didn't realize that the relatively solid "obsidian" pieces would expand well enough to end up as a fairly sold mass of "rock foam." For what it is worth: it is this natural devitrification of volcanic glass that is responsible for the fact that there are no old obsidian deposits. Obsidian deposits are all Tertiary age (except maybe some remnants here and there). All the old obsidian deposits, from volcanic activity before the Tertiary have devitrified to clays. Lanny On May 29, 2004, at 6:19 AM, john wrote: > MCGINNISG@aol.com wrote: > >> I've heard from various sources that if you that Arizona apache tears >> and heat them, they will expand to many times their original size. >> Has anyone else heard of such a process and if so, how it is >> accomplished? >> >> Thank you >> >> T. McGinnis >> >> > > These are not really "apache tears", which are low-water obsidians. > These are perlite, which is at the high-water content end of rhyolite > outflows. They are the "cores" of the original deposit, which > probably weathered destructively in all directions leaving a litter of > expanded material and these "tears". > > john > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 29 13:55:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Sat May 29 12:55:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rocks: Puzzling micro-formations and dynamic effects Message-ID: Hi Alan Do you have pictures of those? I am still leaning toward the belief that the visible honeycombs themselves are not old fossils, but recent leaf-fragments in the process of petrification. The Ilmenite-honeycomb-pattern in the rocks themselves may well be associated with old, long faded fossils. Berj >From: "Alan Goldstein" >Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >To: >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rocks: Puzzling micro-formations and dynamic >effects >Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 09:18:20 -0400 > >Could be bryozoans, it is hard to say for certain. It also resembles the >peculiar coral Tetradium, which existed in the Ordovician, but not the >Devonian. The corallites for Tetradium are about the size of the largest >bryozoan apertures. > >Alan Goldstein > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Berj N. Ensanian" >To: >Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 12:45 PM >Subject: [Rockhounds] Rocks: Puzzling micro-formations and dynamic effects > > > > > > > > Hi everyone > > > > Recently I've encountered a couple of very peculiar rocks (handheld > > specimens). Experimenting with them the enigma they present has only > > increased. I've done a lot of investigating, and at this point I still >do > > not have a comprehensive explanation for these rocks. One university > > professor with expertise in fossils who I corresponded with suggested > > Bryozoans may be involved, and I am embarking on studying those. >However, > > the deeper mystery involves dynamic effects which are observable in the > > rocks now. > > > > Some of you may know something. Also there is plenty of interesting > > experimental possibility here, and the necessary resources required are > > quite modest. If you are interested, take a look: > > > > http://www.executive-express.com/rockformations.htm > > > > Have a safe and happy holiday! > > > > Berj > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra >Storage! > > http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 29 16:53:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Fred Olmstead) Date: Sat May 29 15:53:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls Message-ID: <40B91762.7010608@rcn.com> WOW I AM GOING TO PUT ALL MY GOLD IN THE OVEN AND... THEN I WILL PUT ALL MY SILVERWARE IN THE OVEN.... I WILL BE RICH..... __..--..__..--..__ -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls ??? Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 07:57:30 -0400 From: Tim Jokela Jr. Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com To: References: <76.3c5590b6.2de973af@aol.com> <056f01c44542$2d1e6020$7f7f7f7f@eur.nai.com> Damn, if it's true, that would be a cool experiment, please, somebody with the proper oven try this today and report back. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals at: http://www.element51.com Ontario minerals at: http://www.ontariominerals.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jimmy Kuo" To: Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 1:59 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls ??? > Google comes up with this. True or not, I don't know: > > http://www.ganoksin.com/orchid/archive/200101/msg00088.htm > > Jimmy > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:03 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls ??? > > > > I've heard from various sources that if you that Arizona apache tears and > > heat them, they will expand to many times their original size. Has anyone > else > > heard of such a process and if so, how it is accomplished? > > > > Thank you > > > > T. McGinnis > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 29 17:43:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat May 29 16:43:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls ??? References: <76.3c5590b6.2de973af@aol.com> Message-ID: <40B91FE4.32B8@Tomaszewski.net> MCGINNISG@aol.com wrote: > > I've heard from various sources that if you that Arizona apache tears and > heat them, they will expand to many times their original size. Has anyone else > heard of such a process and if so, how it is accomplished? > > Thank you > > T. McGinnis True for most obsidian. Heat to around 1,000 C in a kiln. The trapped gasses and water will expand turning the obsidian into pumice. Kreigh From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 29 18:57:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat May 29 17:57:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls References: <40B91762.7010608@rcn.com> Message-ID: <40B93122.C5C@Tomaszewski.net> 1,800 C is probably too hot. Flowing lava runs 2,000-2,400 C. You just want to get it hot enough to be plastic so the entrapped gasses and water can blow it up. If it gets too hot the gasses can escape so you don't get as much 'pufffed up' pumice volume. Schumann states 1,000 C in his Handbook. But the basic procedure was correct. Kreigh Fred Olmstead wrote: > > WOW > I AM GOING TO PUT ALL MY GOLD IN THE OVEN AND... > THEN I WILL PUT ALL MY SILVERWARE IN THE OVEN.... > I WILL BE RICH..... > > __..--..__..--..__ > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls ??? > Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 07:57:30 -0400 > From: Tim Jokela Jr. > Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > To: > References: <76.3c5590b6.2de973af@aol.com> > <056f01c44542$2d1e6020$7f7f7f7f@eur.nai.com> > > Damn, if it's true, that would be a cool experiment, please, somebody with > the proper oven try this today and report back. > > Cheers, > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Great minerals at: http://www.element51.com > Ontario minerals at: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jimmy Kuo" > To: > Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 1:59 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls ??? > > > Google comes up with this. True or not, I don't know: > > > > http://www.ganoksin.com/orchid/archive/200101/msg00088.htm > > > > Jimmy > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:03 PM > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls ??? > > > > > > > I've heard from various sources that if you that Arizona apache tears > and > > > heat them, they will expand to many times their original size. Has > anyone > > else > > > heard of such a process and if so, how it is accomplished? > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > T. McGinnis From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 29 19:06:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat May 29 18:06:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls In-Reply-To: <40B93122.C5C@Tomaszewski.net> References: <40B91762.7010608@rcn.com> <40B93122.C5C@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20040529152536.02ea5e90@mail.aloha.net> I may try one in my ceramics kiln, but I'm not going to fire it up just for that. I'll have a bisque firing later in the summer that should be about the right temp. I also have a "microkiln" that is supposed to be used in a microwave oven that I've never tried. I'll look at the instruction manual, and if it looks like its appropriate I'll try it this week and let you know what happens. Aloha, Kitty At 02:56 PM 5/29/2004, you wrote: >1,800 C is probably too hot. Flowing lava runs 2,000-2,400 C. You just >want to get it hot enough to be plastic so the entrapped gasses and >water can blow it up. If it gets too hot the gasses can escape so you >don't get as much 'pufffed up' pumice volume. Schumann states 1,000 C in >his Handbook. But the basic procedure was correct. > >Kreigh > > > > >Fred Olmstead wrote: > > > > WOW > > I AM GOING TO PUT ALL MY GOLD IN THE OVEN AND... > > THEN I WILL PUT ALL MY SILVERWARE IN THE OVEN.... > > I WILL BE RICH..... > > > > __..--..__..--..__ > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls ??? > > Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 07:57:30 -0400 > > From: Tim Jokela Jr. > > Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > To: > > References: <76.3c5590b6.2de973af@aol.com> > > <056f01c44542$2d1e6020$7f7f7f7f@eur.nai.com> > > > > Damn, if it's true, that would be a cool experiment, please, somebody with > > the proper oven try this today and report back. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > > Great minerals at: http://www.element51.com > > Ontario minerals at: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jimmy Kuo" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 1:59 AM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls ??? > > > > > Google comes up with this. True or not, I don't know: > > > > > > http://www.ganoksin.com/orchid/archive/200101/msg00088.htm > > > > > > Jimmy > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:03 PM > > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls ??? > > > > > > > > > > I've heard from various sources that if you that Arizona apache tears > > and > > > > heat them, they will expand to many times their original size. Has > > anyone > > > else > > > > heard of such a process and if so, how it is accomplished? > > > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > > > T. McGinnis >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 29 19:10:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sat May 29 18:10:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rocks: Puzzling micro-formations and dynamic effects References: Message-ID: <002e01c445e2$c349b6d0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Berj, I don't have any handy images -- do an on-line search. It helps to know what type of rock you are investigating. The images themselve were not helpful; they do look somewhat water-worn. I have found recent fossilized leaves in travertine deposits associated with cave springs (or more accurately, seepages). They are unmistakable. Again, without knowing the age of the rock and type of matrix, all I can muster is an educated guess. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Berj N. Ensanian" To: Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 3:54 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rocks: Puzzling micro-formations and dynamic effects > > > Hi Alan > > Do you have pictures of those? > > I am still leaning toward the belief that the visible honeycombs themselves > are not old fossils, but recent leaf-fragments in the process of > petrification. The Ilmenite-honeycomb-pattern in the rocks themselves may > well be associated with old, long faded fossils. > > Berj > > > > >From: "Alan Goldstein" > >Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > >To: > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rocks: Puzzling micro-formations and dynamic > >effects > >Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 09:18:20 -0400 > > > >Could be bryozoans, it is hard to say for certain. It also resembles the > >peculiar coral Tetradium, which existed in the Ordovician, but not the > >Devonian. The corallites for Tetradium are about the size of the largest > >bryozoan apertures. > > > >Alan Goldstein > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Berj N. Ensanian" > >To: > >Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 12:45 PM > >Subject: [Rockhounds] Rocks: Puzzling micro-formations and dynamic effects > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone > > > > > > Recently I've encountered a couple of very peculiar rocks (handheld > > > specimens). Experimenting with them the enigma they present has only > > > increased. I've done a lot of investigating, and at this point I still > >do > > > not have a comprehensive explanation for these rocks. One university > > > professor with expertise in fossils who I corresponded with suggested > > > Bryozoans may be involved, and I am embarking on studying those. > >However, > > > the deeper mystery involves dynamic effects which are observable in the > > > rocks now. > > > > > > Some of you may know something. Also there is plenty of interesting > > > experimental possibility here, and the necessary resources required are > > > quite modest. If you are interested, take a look: > > > > > > http://www.executive-express.com/rockformations.htm > > > > > > Have a safe and happy holiday! > > > > > > Berj > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra > >Storage! > > > http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today - > it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 29 20:17:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Sat May 29 19:17:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rocks: Puzzling micro-formations and dynamic effects Message-ID: Alan Yes I will research those when I get back home - have only brief net access at the moment. Yes I need to make some tests on the rocks themselves and get a more detailed idea of what they are. What about those fossilized leaves you found? - anything in there resembling a honeycomb pattern? Berj >From: "Alan Goldstein" >Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >To: >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rocks: Puzzling micro-formations and dynamic >effects >Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 21:09:30 -0400 > >Berj, > >I don't have any handy images -- do an on-line search. > >It helps to know what type of rock you are investigating. The images >themselve were not helpful; they do look somewhat water-worn. I have found >recent fossilized leaves in travertine deposits associated with cave >springs >(or more accurately, seepages). They are unmistakable. Again, without >knowing the age of the rock and type of matrix, all I can muster is an >educated guess. > >Alan > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Berj N. Ensanian" >To: >Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 3:54 PM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rocks: Puzzling micro-formations and dynamic >effects > > > > > > > > Hi Alan > > > > Do you have pictures of those? > > > > I am still leaning toward the belief that the visible honeycombs >themselves > > are not old fossils, but recent leaf-fragments in the process of > > petrification. The Ilmenite-honeycomb-pattern in the rocks themselves >may > > well be associated with old, long faded fossils. > > > > Berj > > > > > > > > >From: "Alan Goldstein" > > >Reply-To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > >To: > > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rocks: Puzzling micro-formations and dynamic > > >effects > > >Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 09:18:20 -0400 > > > > > >Could be bryozoans, it is hard to say for certain. It also resembles >the > > >peculiar coral Tetradium, which existed in the Ordovician, but not the > > >Devonian. The corallites for Tetradium are about the size of the >largest > > >bryozoan apertures. > > > > > >Alan Goldstein > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Berj N. Ensanian" > > >To: > > >Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 12:45 PM > > >Subject: [Rockhounds] Rocks: Puzzling micro-formations and dynamic >effects > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone > > > > > > > > Recently I've encountered a couple of very peculiar rocks (handheld > > > > specimens). Experimenting with them the enigma they present has only > > > > increased. I've done a lot of investigating, and at this point I >still > > >do > > > > not have a comprehensive explanation for these rocks. One university > > > > professor with expertise in fossils who I corresponded with >suggested > > > > Bryozoans may be involved, and I am embarking on studying those. > > >However, > > > > the deeper mystery involves dynamic effects which are observable in >the > > > > rocks now. > > > > > > > > Some of you may know something. Also there is plenty of interesting > > > > experimental possibility here, and the necessary resources required >are > > > > quite modest. If you are interested, take a look: > > > > > > > > http://www.executive-express.com/rockformations.htm > > > > > > > > Have a safe and happy holiday! > > > > > > > > Berj > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra > > >Storage! > > > > http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > > Subscription Services: > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > >Subscription Services: > > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today - > > it's FREE! >http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _________________________________________________________________ Learn to simplify your finances and your life in Streamline Your Life from MSN Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0405streamline.armx From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 29 21:58:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (john) Date: Sat May 29 20:58:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.0.20040529152536.02ea5e90@mail.aloha.net> References: <40B91762.7010608@rcn.com> <40B93122.C5C@Tomaszewski.net> <6.0.3.0.0.20040529152536.02ea5e90@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <40B95793.8020601@hal-pc.org> Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > I may try one in my ceramics kiln, but I'm not going to fire it up > just for that. I'll have a bisque firing later in the summer that > should be about the right temp. > > I also have a "microkiln" that is supposed to be used in a microwave > oven that I've never tried. I'll look at the instruction manual, and > if it looks like its appropriate I'll try it this week and let you > know what happens. > > Aloha, Kitty > > > At 02:56 PM 5/29/2004, you wrote: > >> 1,800 C is probably too hot. Flowing lava runs 2,000-2,400 C. You just >> want to get it hot enough to be plastic so the entrapped gasses and >> water can blow it up. If it gets too hot the gasses can escape so you >> don't get as much 'pufffed up' pumice volume. Schumann states 1,000 C in >> his Handbook. But the basic procedure was correct. >> >> Kreigh >> Why not try a quick test with a propane torch? To get an idea of what would happen with the material one has. john From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sat May 29 22:25:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (john) Date: Sat May 29 21:25:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls ??? In-Reply-To: References: <76.3c5590b6.2de973af@aol.com> <40B88DF5.4060907@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: <40B95DF6.4070400@hal-pc.org> Lanny wrote: > To expand a little on John's explanation. Perlite is useful because of > this expandable property of this high water content volcanic glass, or > obsidian. A typical perlite deposit has already partially devitrified > so that it is no longer a solid mass of obsidian but is a deposit of > gray poorly crystallized minerals with various sized pieces of the > black obsidian remaining. Eventually (thousands of years) the deposit > will be nothing but fine grained clays, glassy particles and small > rounded bits of obsidian (Apache tears), and later nothing but clays > (and or other fine grained minerals). > > Perlite is mined, heated and the expanded product used in planting > soil mixes and also as a low grade insulation because of its foam-like > nature. As the website states, it will float because it is now an > exanded foamy, air-filled "rock," much like pumice. I didn't realize > that the relatively solid "obsidian" pieces would expand well enough > to end up as a fairly sold mass of "rock foam." > > For what it is worth: it is this natural devitrification of volcanic > glass that is responsible for the fact that there are no old obsidian > deposits. Obsidian deposits are all Tertiary age (except maybe some > remnants here and there). All the old obsidian deposits, from volcanic > activity before the Tertiary have devitrified to clays. > > Lanny > I should think that the "tears" that readily expand are not obsidian, which is glass with less than ~10% water, but are pitchstone, glass with more than 10% water grading into true perlite. They both would look and act the same externally except the pitchstone will not take as high a polish as the obsidian. I guess that true obsidian would expand if heated slowly and strongly enough, but it is more likely to act like a glass and deprecate, or even melt. But there is no hard and fast boundary between the two, other than the AGI definitions; with so much variability, even stones from different areas of the same rhyolite flow could act differently. john > > > > On May 29, 2004, at 6:19 AM, john wrote: > >> MCGINNISG@aol.com wrote: >> >>> I've heard from various sources that if you that Arizona apache >>> tears and heat them, they will expand to many times their original >>> size. Has anyone else heard of such a process and if so, how it is >>> accomplished? >>> >>> Thank you >>> >>> T. McGinnis >>> >>> >> >> These are not really "apache tears", which are low-water obsidians. >> These are perlite, which is at the high-water content end of rhyolite >> outflows. They are the "cores" of the original deposit, which >> probably weathered destructively in all directions leaving a litter >> of expanded material and these "tears". >> >> john >> From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 30 05:56:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sun May 30 04:56:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls ??? Message-ID: <12b.42c5edf6.2deb25c7@aol.com> Hi again, Try contacting Bill Kline in North Carolina on the process. He puts apache tears in a kiln and out comes big puff balls. He is also the fellow that grows bismuth in the US. dAVE --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 30 07:29:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sun May 30 06:29:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls References: <40B91762.7010608@rcn.com> <40B93122.C5C@Tomaszewski.net> <6.0.3.0.0.20040529152536.02ea5e90@mail.aloha.net> <40B95793.8020601@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: <001b01c4464a$5bd18b00$b9a6490c@pete> BTW, those numbers are all degrees F, not Celsius, being quoted here. I'd like to see one of these obsidian "puffballs"! I'll have to try using a furnace at our USGS labs sometime, and doing this. But yes, a propane torch ought to do a quick and dirty job on it, too! Do you remember (of course, everyone remembers every little thing EVER posted on the list!), I once mentioned, friends from Las Alamos who lost their home in the forest fire there the other year, showed one of the few things recovered from the debris after the fire, it had once been a specimen of obsidian, and it had swelled into a whitish mass--not quite as much as a "puff ball", but it was bigger than it had been. Regarding perlite and obsidian and Apache Tears -- I've always assumed that the apache tears--fresh, unaltered residual nuggets of obsidian left within the perlite around them--are basically unaltered (unhydrated) original obsidan, which might contain, oh, let's say, guessing maybe 0.1 wt% H2O (I'd have to look up data on the exact amount that's been reported in analyses--I'm not sure, it might be even less than that), whereas the gray, cloudy perlite around them is obsidian that has become hydrated, contains more, guessing maybe a percent or so or more, of H2O. Now here's a quick, back-of-the envelope calculation! If obsidian contains 0.1 wt. % H2O, and the density of obsidian is 2.5 g/cc, then it contains 0.0025 g H2O per cubic centimeter. Now, using the ideal gas law, PV=nRT, one can calculate how much volume that amount of H2O would occupy if it were heated and turned to a gas, at any given temperature. Let's assume a temperature of 1000 deg. F = 538 C. (FYI, basalt lava erupts at 1100-1200 C, but cooler, more siliceous, rhyolite or dacite lava can erupt at more like 700-800 C, and pegmatites solidfy at as low as about 600 C. 538 C = 811 K n in the ideal gas equation is the number of moles of the gas, which for the H2O then is 0.0025 g / 18 g/mole = 0.00014 moles H2O (if all the water is vaporized). R is the gas constant, R = 0.082057 liter - atmospheres / mole - degree K P is the pressure in atmospheres, which we'll say = 1 (sea level). so solving for V, V = 0.00014 moles x 0.082057 liter-atm/mole-deg x 811 deg / 1 atm = .0093 liters = 9.3 cubic centimeters This means (if I did the math right and didn't mess up the decimal places!) that the 0.1 wt. % water in the obsidian is capable of producing 9.3 cc of steam in each 1.0 cc of obsidian, hence theoretically capable of swelling the obsidian to 10 times its original volume. Plenty enough to puff it into a foam! (That was the way I was hoping the calculation would come out!) Isn't science wonderful!!! cheers, and happy Memorial Day weekend, Pete Modreski (a beautiful, clear, slightly cool (storm front went through yesterday), breezy, sunny day here in Denver). ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 9:40 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls > Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > > I may try one in my ceramics kiln, but I'm not going to fire it up > > just for that. I'll have a bisque firing later in the summer that > > should be about the right temp. > > > > I also have a "microkiln" that is supposed to be used in a microwave > > oven that I've never tried. I'll look at the instruction manual, and > > if it looks like its appropriate I'll try it this week and let you > > know what happens. > > > > Aloha, Kitty > > > > > > At 02:56 PM 5/29/2004, you wrote: > > > >> 1,800 C is probably too hot. Flowing lava runs 2,000-2,400 C. You just > >> want to get it hot enough to be plastic so the entrapped gasses and > >> water can blow it up. If it gets too hot the gasses can escape so you > >> don't get as much 'pufffed up' pumice volume. Schumann states 1,000 C in > >> his Handbook. But the basic procedure was correct. > >> > >> Kreigh > >> > > > Why not try a quick test with a propane torch? To get an idea of what > would happen with the material one has. > > john > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 30 07:41:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sun May 30 06:41:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] astronomy and rockhounds References: Message-ID: <002301c4464b$fd5c6980$b9a6490c@pete> Joe, yes, & John, you're right, this locality is at the head of Clanton Draw, near Geronimo Pass, in the southern Peloncillo Mountains of N.M., almost on the NM-AZ border, way south of I-10 and closer to the Mexican border. It's the locality that has been known (by collectors who found & sold geodes from there) as the "Yankee Dog Claim", though there has never really been a mining claim filed there. The locality is in a hill of rhyolite, a mile or two northwest of the pass where the (somewhat rough) dirt road crosses from NM to AZ (just barely traversable in a non-4WD). The chalcedony-lined, partly open geodes are gray to slightly pink chalcedony, and many are brightly green fluorescent. Those that have been sold in Tucson in past years, that look the best, have been cleaned by air-abrasive with a soft semi-abrasive material; without doing that, they tend to have a matte, slightly dirty appearance. I've always been a little reluctant to post out exact directions, because I know about the site thanks to the fellows who had collected there a decade or so ago, and told me about the spot. But if you hike N/NW from the pass (a good hiking trail begins just about 1/10 mile downhill of the pass on the west side) you'll find it; it's a nice (first part of the trail is pretty steep) hike. cheers, Pete Modreski ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Davis" To: Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 5:47 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] astronomy and rockhounds > How about some more info on the location/quality of the chalcedony geodes. > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > message/rfc822 > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 30 08:02:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun May 30 07:02:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls References: <40B91762.7010608@rcn.com> <40B93122.C5C@Tomaszewski.net> <6.0.3.0.0.20040529152536.02ea5e90@mail.aloha.net> <40B95793.8020601@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: <40B9E951.7C5D@Tomaszewski.net> john wrote: > > Why not try a quick test with a propane torch? To get an idea of what > would happen with the material one has. > > john The fast heating with a point source of heat would probably cause the stone to shatter forcefully and could be dangerous. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 30 08:44:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (john) Date: Sun May 30 07:44:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls In-Reply-To: <40B9E951.7C5D@Tomaszewski.net> References: <40B91762.7010608@rcn.com> <40B93122.C5C@Tomaszewski.net> <6.0.3.0.0.20040529152536.02ea5e90@mail.aloha.net> <40B95793.8020601@hal-pc.org> <40B9E951.7C5D@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <40B9EF3B.9060606@hal-pc.org> Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >john wrote: > > >>Why not try a quick test with a propane torch? To get an idea of what >>would happen with the material one has. >> >>john >> >> > >The fast heating with a point source of heat would probably cause the >stone to shatter forcefully and could be dangerous. > > Thanks, Kreigh Yeah, I thought about that just after I sent the e-mail. But then nobody who can handle a propane torch would be that stupid...would they? Of course they would, so WARNING duely noted. The proper way is probably to "wave" the flame back and forth across the specimen, bringing it slowly closer to produce an even heat for the specimen and the background, which of course is flame-proof. (You did remember that, didn't you?) john From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 30 09:02:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (john) Date: Sun May 30 08:02:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls In-Reply-To: <001b01c4464a$5bd18b00$b9a6490c@pete> References: <40B91762.7010608@rcn.com> <40B93122.C5C@Tomaszewski.net> <6.0.3.0.0.20040529152536.02ea5e90@mail.aloha.net> <40B95793.8020601@hal-pc.org> <001b01c4464a$5bd18b00$b9a6490c@pete> Message-ID: <40B9F35C.7050405@hal-pc.org> Peter J. Modreski wrote: >BTW, those numbers are all degrees F, not Celsius, being quoted here. > >I'd like to see one of these obsidian "puffballs"! I'll have to try using a >furnace at our USGS labs sometime, and doing this. But yes, a propane torch >ought to do a quick and dirty job on it, too! > >Do you remember (of course, everyone remembers every little thing EVER >posted on the list!), I once mentioned, friends from Las Alamos who lost >their home in the forest fire there the other year, showed one of the few >things recovered from the debris after the fire, it had once been a specimen >of obsidian, and it had swelled into a whitish mass--not quite as much as a >"puff ball", but it was bigger than it had been. > >Regarding perlite and obsidian and Apache Tears -- I've always assumed that >the apache tears--fresh, unaltered residual nuggets of obsidian left within >the perlite around them--are basically unaltered (unhydrated) original >obsidan, which might contain, oh, let's say, guessing maybe 0.1 wt% H2O (I'd >have to look up data on the exact amount that's been reported in >analyses--I'm not sure, it might be even less than that), whereas the gray, >cloudy perlite around them is obsidian that has become hydrated, contains >more, guessing maybe a percent or so or more, of H2O. > >Now here's a quick, back-of-the envelope calculation! If obsidian contains >0.1 wt. % H2O, and the density of obsidian is 2.5 g/cc, then it contains >0.0025 g H2O per cubic centimeter. Now, using the ideal gas law, PV=nRT, >one can calculate how much volume that amount of H2O would occupy if it were >heated and turned to a gas, at any given temperature. > >Let's assume a temperature of 1000 deg. F = 538 C. (FYI, basalt lava >erupts at 1100-1200 C, but cooler, more siliceous, rhyolite or dacite lava >can erupt at more like 700-800 C, and pegmatites solidfy at as low as about >600 C. 538 C = 811 K > >n in the ideal gas equation is the number of moles of the gas, which for the >H2O then is 0.0025 g / 18 g/mole = 0.00014 moles H2O (if all the water is >vaporized). > >R is the gas constant, R = 0.082057 liter - atmospheres / mole - degree K >P is the pressure in atmospheres, which we'll say = 1 (sea level). > >so solving for V, > >V = 0.00014 moles x 0.082057 liter-atm/mole-deg x 811 deg / 1 atm > >= .0093 liters = 9.3 cubic centimeters > >This means (if I did the math right and didn't mess up the decimal places!) >that the 0.1 wt. % water in the obsidian is capable of producing 9.3 cc of >steam in each 1.0 cc of obsidian, hence theoretically capable of swelling >the obsidian to 10 times its original volume. Plenty enough to puff it into >a foam! (That was the way I was hoping the calculation would come out!) > >Isn't science wonderful!!! > >cheers, and happy Memorial Day weekend, > >Pete Modreski (a beautiful, clear, slightly cool (storm front went through >yesterday), breezy, sunny day here in Denver). > > According to the Perlite Institute (www.perlite.org), the commercial perlite contains "two to six percent combined water" and the original rock will expand from "four to twenty times" in volume. It is interesting to note that in their typical chemical analysis, some 3% remains as "bound water"; the rest gasifies under heating as minute bubbles which expands the whole mass. The expanded material can be manufactured to have a density of as little as 2 lb. per cubic foot. that would make pumice a heavyweight by comparison. Yeah, isn't science wonderful! (But technology is what we live by.) john From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 30 11:35:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kris Murray) Date: Sun May 30 10:35:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls In-Reply-To: <001b01c4464a$5bd18b00$b9a6490c@pete> References: <40B91762.7010608@rcn.com> <40B93122.C5C@Tomaszewski.net> <6.0.3.0.0.20040529152536.02ea5e90@mail.aloha.net> <40B95793.8020601@hal-pc.org> <001b01c4464a$5bd18b00$b9a6490c@pete> Message-ID: <85A728B6-B25F-11D8-AAB3-000393A96092@mac.com> on the side of the highway southeast of the Guadalupe Mountains=20 national park in texas, i found some 'obsidian.' I was happy but yet=20 they were not shiny on the outside (kinda was like they were pumice)=20 and they would break if you twisted them. they are as the puffballs you=20= guys describe, but mother nature would have made them in the desert and=20= i doubt it got to 1000=B0F. i have some i could photo, although you guys=20= wouldnt be able to tell the pumice like quality of them. ~KM Nobody will ever need more than 640k RAM! (Bill Gates, 1981) Windows 95 needs at least 8MB RAM! (Bill Gates, 1996) On May 30, 2004, at 6:30 AM, Peter J. Modreski wrote: > I'd like to see one of these obsidian "puffballs"! I'll have to try=20= > using a > furnace at our USGS labs sometime, and doing this. But yes, a propane=20= > torch > ought to do a quick and dirty job on it, too! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 30 11:55:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Frank de Wit) Date: Sun May 30 10:55:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dreislar underground Message-ID: <011f01c4466f$2228f440$aa7ba8c0@cm333814lt> Hi all, I was underground in the Dreislar mine yesterday with some friends and we found some very nice specimens (we think ;-) of Baryt and = Chalkopyrit see: http://www.strahlen.org/vp/de/dreislar/ Hojje! Frank http://www.strahlen.org/ http://www.untertage.com/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 30 12:07:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Matt) Date: Sun May 30 11:07:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] help needed from UK - upping the ante In-Reply-To: <001901c44402$bc2d5f50$6401a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: Hi I think I can help. I work in London and not too far from Marlborough House. Its actually in Pall Mall, not Park Lane. The place is now run as the office of the Commonwealth Institute. I will write and ask their permission to photo the sodalite. This might take a little while but I will keep you informed Regards Matt -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Tim Jokela Jr. Sent: 27 May 2004 16:53 To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] help needed from UK - upping the ante Alright, I'll up the ante. Anybody that gets me a photo that I can legally reproduce on OGReNet gets $50 US worth of minerals from my website, http://www.element51.com. Surely there are still some Brits on this list, and at least one of them lives in London, and is up for a challenge??? Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals at: http://www.element51.com Ontario minerals at: http://www.ontariominerals.com > Here in Ontario, Canada, we have a famous old sodalite deposit, the Princess > Sodalite Mine. > > Much mention is made of this locality having in 1906 supplied 200 cubic > feet - 118 tons - of deep blue sodalite, for use in the residence of Sir > Ernest Cassell, of Marlborough House, Park Lane, Hyde Park. I imagine that > the residence would be rather lovely, but have never been able to find a > photograph of it. > > Assuming Cassell's house remains, can anybody supply photographs of whatever > the sodalite was used for? I'm assuming floors or something along those > lines. > > The photo(s) would be used for two educational, non-profit websites: > http://www.ontariominerals.com, dedicated to the minerals of Ontario; and > OGReNet, the Ontario Geoscience Resource Network, > http://www.ontariogeoscience.net . OGReNet is a site initiated by the > University of Western Ontario, with the purpose of providing geoscience > resources to teachers and acting as a liason between the teaching and > geoscience communities. > > If necessary, I'd be willing to pay (or exchange a nice chunk of sodalite) > for good photos; they would add a great deal to the above-mentioned > websites. > > Many thanks to anybody that can help! > > Cheers, > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Great minerals at: http://www.element51.com > Ontario minerals at: http://www.ontariominerals.com > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 30 12:47:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Horst Windisch) Date: Sun May 30 11:47:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dreislar underground References: <011f01c4466f$2228f440$aa7ba8c0@cm333814lt> Message-ID: <004e01c44674$3fed8d60$8a3d27c4@horstspc> Hi all, Well, well, well; Deislar, Westfalen, Germany is wellknown for its baryte with chalcopyrite specimens.This is also mentioned in most European guide books on mineral localities Regards Horst---- Original Message ----- From: "Frank de Wit" To: "rockhounds" Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 7:54 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Dreislar underground Hi all, I was underground in the Dreislar mine yesterday with some friends and we found some very nice specimens (we think ;-) of Baryt and Chalkopyrit see: http://www.strahlen.org/vp/de/dreislar/ Hojje! Frank http://www.strahlen.org/ http://www.untertage.com/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 30 13:26:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Maria Hammill) Date: Sun May 30 12:26:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] peruvian opal References: <20040528162543.77148.qmail@web20025.mail.yahoo.com> <001a01c444ed$58c28ee0$105204d0@jim> <00db01c444f4$3f7f1aa0$6402a8c0@axel> Message-ID: <00a501c4467b$cc8e0e00$0201a8c0@Home> What is peruvian opal exactly? I was under the impression it isn't truly opal, so I was wondering what it is. Maria Hammill San Diego From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 30 15:17:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Jimmy Kuo) Date: Sun May 30 14:17:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Apache Tears Puff Balls References: <40B91762.7010608@rcn.com> <40B93122.C5C@Tomaszewski.net> <6.0.3.0.0.20040529152536.02ea5e90@mail.aloha.net> <40B95793.8020601@hal-pc.org> <40B9E951.7C5D@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <001e01c4468b$6c7b12a0$7f7f7f7f@eur.nai.com> > > Why not try a quick test with a propane torch? To get an idea of what > > would happen with the material one has. > The fast heating with a point source of heat would probably cause the > stone to shatter forcefully and could be dangerous. My original reaction to this thread, until I found the google reference was, "Sure, it'll expand. It's called, 'explosion.'" :-) Jimmy From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 30 18:15:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun May 30 17:15:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dreislar underground References: <011f01c4466f$2228f440$aa7ba8c0@cm333814lt> Message-ID: <001501c446a4$44158b60$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Frank, Very nice pictures! I enjoy getting into mines to collect, although most are surface pits. In 1987, I got underground in the Annabel Lee mine, near Cave in Rock, Illinois. A friend of mine took pictures (he is a top-notch cave photographer), but they are slides and I have not scanned them to digital yet. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank de Wit" To: "rockhounds" Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 1:54 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Dreislar underground Hi all, I was underground in the Dreislar mine yesterday with some friends and we found some very nice specimens (we think ;-) of Baryt and Chalkopyrit see: http://www.strahlen.org/vp/de/dreislar/ Hojje! Frank http://www.strahlen.org/ http://www.untertage.com/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 30 19:04:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Joe Mulvey) Date: Sun May 30 18:04:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Ruggle's Mine Message-ID: <20040531010304.63343.qmail@web20022.mail.yahoo.com> I've taken the family there twice. I wouldn't go with high hopes. Knowing what I've learned from this list and mineral clubs, I would never drive that far to pay that much again. If you go that far from ME, why not try to see something spectacular like the Wise Mines in Westmoreland or the Palermo Mines in the same area. They are open, working miones specializing in mineral collecting. While not open to the public on a regular basis, I bet they would be very receptive to a school bus' worth of enthusiastic visitors! Or even visit the localities in the White Mountains such as Moat Mtn. Leaving Maine to hunt minerals is like being unable to see the forest for the trees. In the Paris and Poland ME area: The Rockhounds website list good sites. http://www.rockhounds.com/rockgem/articles/pegmatites.html Poland Mining Camps http://users.rcn.com/kenx/poland.htm Poland Mining camps would probably be able to swing a great trip for your class. Oxford County, ME http://www.coromotominerals.com You could contact Frank Perham and have the class meet a living legend of the Maine Mineral Business! (I'd love to see that!) Perham will supply maps to 1/2 dozen localities in the West Paris area. Good luck! Joe Joe Mulvey Nashua, NH -- USA http://home.comcast.net/~mgag1 --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 30 19:17:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun May 30 18:17:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] peruvian opal References: <20040528162543.77148.qmail@web20025.mail.yahoo.com> <001a01c444ed$58c28ee0$105204d0@jim> <00db01c444f4$3f7f1aa0$6402a8c0@axel> <00a501c4467b$cc8e0e00$0201a8c0@Home> Message-ID: <40BA8758.4764@Tomaszewski.net> Maria Hammill wrote: > > What is peruvian opal exactly? I was under the impression it isn't truly > opal, so I was wondering what it is. > > Maria Hammill > San Diego Peruvian Opal is opal from Peru. It seldom has 'fire', is usually translucent blue, and may have black dendritic inclusions. From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sun May 30 19:26:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun May 30 18:26:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ontario trip / trading along the way? Message-ID: <005b01c446ae$3a2825e0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Myself and four friends are venturing up to the Bancroft, Ontario area = at the end of June for the first time. I've corresponded with a few = people for collecting tips, but was wondering about doing some trading = along the way. Our route includes a stop in Burlington then on to = Bancroft going up, and a stop in London / Arkona area going back. We'd = have minerals and fossils to trade. Please contact me directly, since = this may not be of general interest to the entire list. (Although who = knows, maybe it is?) Alan Goldstein --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 31 02:47:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Frank de Wit) Date: Mon May 31 01:47:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dreislar underground References: <011f01c4466f$2228f440$aa7ba8c0@cm333814lt> <001501c446a4$44158b60$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <002b01c446eb$bdc5eb20$aa7ba8c0@cm333814lt> thx ;-) if you can get someone to digitize the slides (with almost every HP scanner you get a slide-scanner for free) i have free discspace to get them on the web for you, just email me the pictures and i will put them online hojje! Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Goldstein" To: Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 2:14 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Dreislar underground > Frank, > > Very nice pictures! I enjoy getting into mines to collect, although most are > surface pits. In 1987, I got underground in the Annabel Lee mine, near Cave > in Rock, Illinois. A friend of mine took pictures (he is a top-notch cave > photographer), but they are slides and I have not scanned them to digital > yet. > > Alan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frank de Wit" > To: "rockhounds" > Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 1:54 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Dreislar underground > > > Hi all, > > I was underground in the Dreislar mine yesterday with some friends > and we found some very nice specimens (we think ;-) of Baryt and Chalkopyrit > see: http://www.strahlen.org/vp/de/dreislar/ > > Hojje! Frank > http://www.strahlen.org/ > http://www.untertage.com/ > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 31 07:48:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Lawrence Rush) Date: Mon May 31 06:48:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ontario trip / trading along the way? References: <005b01c446ae$3a2825e0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <002301c44715$9e6dd560$3c804c0c@fekib> Alan: If you are on your way to Burlington on the 26th or 27th, consider = stopping at the Gilsum, NH rock swap. It is about 1/2 hr. drive East of = Rt. 91 in Southern NH. It is a 2 day, outdoor event, attended by about = 50 dealers, 6 or so swappers, and several thousand walk-ins. It is the = main annual event for this tiny town of ex-miners, and they go all out = to support it, with raffles, yard-sales, mine tours, church dinners, = etc. Lots of fun. It was started over 40 years ago for swappers only, = but with the decline of trading interest over the years, is now mostly a = selling event. Still, all of the dealers trade with swappers and each = other. Stop by and say hello! Larry Rush ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Alan Goldstein=20 To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com=20 Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 9:25 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Ontario trip / trading along the way? Myself and four friends are venturing up to the Bancroft, Ontario area = at the end of June for the first time. I've corresponded with a few = people for collecting tips, but was wondering about doing some trading = along the way. Our route includes a stop in Burlington then on to = Bancroft going up, and a stop in London / Arkona area going back. We'd = have minerals and fossils to trade. Please contact me directly, since = this may not be of general interest to the entire list. (Although who = knows, maybe it is?) Alan Goldstein --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 31 10:02:00 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Lanny) Date: Mon May 31 09:02:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dreislar underground In-Reply-To: <011f01c4466f$2228f440$aa7ba8c0@cm333814lt> References: <011f01c4466f$2228f440$aa7ba8c0@cm333814lt> Message-ID: <86B4E65A-B31B-11D8-A069-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi Frank, Great photos and fun movies. That must have been a good time, I'm jealous. Those barites look great. I'm glad you posted your message and the photos. Regards, Lanny On May 30, 2004, at 10:54 AM, Frank de Wit wrote: > Hi all, > > I was underground in the Dreislar mine yesterday with some friends > and we found some very nice specimens (we think ;-) of Baryt and > Chalkopyrit > see: http://www.strahlen.org/vp/de/dreislar/ > > Hojje! Frank > http://www.strahlen.org/ > http://www.untertage.com/ > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 31 12:11:02 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Lawrence Rush) Date: Mon May 31 11:11:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Swap/Sale, Kent, CT Message-ID: <000201c4473a$5793dd40$9a8c4c0c@fekib> June 12; Connecticut Museum of Mining and Mineral Science, annual swap = and sale at the Conn. Antique Machinery Association Museum grounds, 1 = mi. north of Kent, Ct on Rt.7. Outdoor event, dealers/swappers/walk-ins = welcome. For info., contact John Pawloski, 860-354-0296. Larry Rush www.ConnRoxMinerals.com www.mineralstotrade.homestead.com "Noel Coward thought work was more fun than play,=20 but he never, ever worked in the mines" --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Mon May 31 19:00:01 2004 From: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com (Keith Q Hayes) Date: Mon May 31 18:00:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ontario trip / trading along the way? In-Reply-To: <005b01c446ae$3a2825e0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: Alan, and others, I live in Midland, Michigan which is about 1 hr NW of Flint. This isn't too far off the route, esp. with your plan to stop in Arkona. I have many mineral specimens that would be happy to end up in new homes. Contact me off list if you will be in the area and wish to stop by. Best Regards, Keith Hayes www.kqminerals.com kqhayes@chartermi.net 3705 Fuller Drive Midland, MI 48642 -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-admin@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Alan Goldstein Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 9:26 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Ontario trip / trading along the way? Myself and four friends are venturing up to the Bancroft, Ontario area at the end of June for the first time. I've corresponded with a few people for collecting tips, but was wondering about doing some trading along the way. Our route includes a stop in Burlington then on to Bancroft going up, and a stop in London / Arkona area going back. We'd have minerals and fossils to trade. Please contact me directly, since this may not be of general interest to the entire list. (Although who knows, maybe it is?) Alan Goldstein --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds