From SMKELL45 at aol.com Fri Oct 1 05:38:24 2004 From: SMKELL45 at aol.com (SMKELL45@aol.com) Date: Fri Oct 1 05:38:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] SPECIMEN BOXES Message-ID: <6D8E6BCE.0E2E64A0.0079B709@aol.com> I'm looking for a vendor who sells folding boxes to hold my mineral specimens, for our mineral club. They are especially interested in 2"x2", and 2"x3" sizes. Any ideas out there? smkell From stu at arcrystalmine.com Fri Oct 1 06:10:31 2004 From: stu at arcrystalmine.com (stu@arcrystalmine.com) Date: Fri Oct 1 06:10:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] SPECIMEN BOXES References: <6D8E6BCE.0E2E64A0.0079B709@aol.com> Message-ID: <002701c4a7b8$09656ec0$6400a8c0@STUART> I get my folding boxes from "The Foothills" in El Paso, TX (915-534-7095). They are very prompt with delivery. With appreciation & gratitude, Stuart Schmitt Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine www.arcrystalmine.com 60 Mary's Eagle Trail Mount Ida, AR 71957 (870) 867-2443 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 7:38 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] SPECIMEN BOXES > I'm looking for a vendor who sells folding boxes to hold my mineral > specimens, for our mineral club. They are especially interested in 2"x2", > and 2"x3" sizes. Any ideas out there? smkell From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 1 06:27:09 2004 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Fri Oct 1 06:27:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] SPECIMEN BOXES In-Reply-To: <6D8E6BCE.0E2E64A0.0079B709@aol.com> Message-ID: <20041001132709.97893.qmail@web51008.mail.yahoo.com> David Shannon Minerals, 6649 E. Rustic Dr., Mesa, AZ 85215 (480)985-0557 Last I heard, Colleen Shannon, David's widow, is continuing the business. I only resell the 1" X 1" size. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales www.sauktowm.com --- SMKELL45@aol.com wrote: > I'm looking for a vendor who sells folding boxes > to hold my mineral specimens, for our mineral > club. They are especially interested in 2"x2", and > 2"x3" sizes. Any ideas out there? smkell > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com From xossfs at yahoo.com Fri Oct 1 07:05:36 2004 From: xossfs at yahoo.com (Stephen Stover) Date: Fri Oct 1 07:05:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ABBREVIATIONS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041001140536.23170.qmail@web20027.mail.yahoo.com> It has been explained anumber of times but I will do it again JRO = Johnson Ridge Observatory. --- HilmarKrocke wrote: > my MIL recently made a trip and collected amethyst > > Any OR/WA folks planning on heading up to JRO to see > things if and when she > pops? > __________________________________________________________________ > > Well, I still do not know what JRO means. > > I complained to the list about 3 years ago about the > overwhelming usage of > silly abbreviations. > Nothing has changed. > It would be a matter of being considerate, instead > of being annoying for > everybody to follow common practise. > Which is to explain every abbreviation the first > time it is used in any > text. > Example : My MIL ( Mother in Law) recently made a > trip. And a good MIL she > is. > We will see who will be considerate in the future > and who will be not. > Hilmar > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > ===== Stephen F. Stover PH (281) 829-1102 xossfs@yahoo.com Wanting to hunt rocks and play games every day! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From shm at tapnet.net Fri Oct 1 07:06:44 2004 From: shm at tapnet.net (SHM) Date: Fri Oct 1 07:07:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ABBREVIATIONS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <006101c4a7c0$005ed1b0$c3e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Hilmar- I sympathize. It might help to know that rampant abbreviations are pandemic and not peculiar to the Rockhounds list. When I worked at the Nevada Test Site (NTS, of course) I was given a list of more than 800 abbreviations that I attempted to memorize so I could understand the memoranda and other papers that were circulating among us. And now, after more than a decade of e-mail and the increasing use of wireless handheld communication devices, we are finding that the use of numerous abbreviations is proliferating even more. Two years ago I read that college students commonly are embedding the same abbreviations they use in text-messaging in their term papers and other reports and are mystified when their professors object. We are now raising a generation of people who do not know (or respect) the difference between formal and casual communication. Here is one of the cardinal rules drilled into us by the Technical Reports Unit of the U.S. (OK, I'll use one abbreviation!) Geological Survey: Don't abbrev. unless nec. That's for formal writing, of course, but some attention to this rule, especially as applied to unfamiliar or local abbreviations, would be welcome on this list. Cheers! Earl -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of HilmarKrocke Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 11:01 PM To: Rockhounds mailing list Subject: [Rockhounds] ABBREVIATIONS my MIL recently made a trip and collected amethyst Any OR/WA folks planning on heading up to JRO to see things if and when she pops? __________________________________________________________________ Well, I still do not know what JRO means. I complained to the list about 3 years ago about the overwhelming usage of silly abbreviations. Nothing has changed. It would be a matter of being considerate, instead of being annoying for everybody to follow common practise. Which is to explain every abbreviation the first time it is used in any text. Example : My MIL ( Mother in Law) recently made a trip. And a good MIL she is. We will see who will be considerate in the future and who will be not. Hilmar --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Lapadary at aol.com Fri Oct 1 13:06:17 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Fri Oct 1 13:06:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ABBREVIATIONS Message-ID: <62.44b1bf12.2e8f12b9@aol.com> In a message dated 10/1/04 7:08:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time, shm@tapnet.net writes: Two years ago I read that college students commonly are embedding the same abbreviations they use in text-messaging in their term papers and other reports and are mystified when their professors object. We are now raising a generation of people who do not know (or respect) the difference between formal and casual communication. ------------------------------------------------------------>>> The solution might be for word processor programs and email generators to fill in the untyped letters. That way I would write MIL and the program write mother-in-law. That would be great on a DNA list I read. A typical email contains things like "the MLE of generations to the MRCA" which translates as the "Most Likely Estimate of generations to the Most Recent Common Ancestor." When I was an infant I learned thousands of words and I hate to see them replaced by acronyms. Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From afox at drizzle.com Fri Oct 1 13:36:22 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Fri Oct 1 13:36:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] MSH Message-ID: There was a little steam eruption today about noon. You could sort-of see the cloud from taller buildings here in Portland, but so far, no biggie. a. -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From jemstone at amug.org Fri Oct 1 13:36:19 2004 From: jemstone at amug.org (John McLaughlin) Date: Fri Oct 1 13:36:25 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Loretone 12" Saw Parts List Message-ID: <00a201c4a7f6$4ef7c2b0$f25a2741@MCWIDOM> I am trying to find a parts number for my 12" Loretone Saw. The wiring in the screw drive enclosure is totally shot, so I'm trying to find the parts number for a new screw drive assembly, including the main power cord and switches. This is the box that hangs on the front of the saw. I have called Loretone (no one around today) and Kingsely North (also no one around today). It's my hope the missing folks are out hunting minerals or lapidary material and not just goofing off. Thanks, John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona jemstone@amug.org --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From MCGINNISG at aol.com Fri Oct 1 13:48:48 2004 From: MCGINNISG at aol.com (MCGINNISG@aol.com) Date: Fri Oct 1 13:48:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Specimen Boxes Message-ID: <24.61e50714.2e8f1cb0@aol.com> I have found the BEST place to purchase specimen fold up boxes and Perky boxes is Rockboxes.com . Fred is great to deal with and has reasonable prices and fast delivery. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From morningstar at att.net Fri Oct 1 13:57:56 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Fri Oct 1 13:55:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] MSH In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <415DC4D4.60805@att.net> Aaron Fox wrote: > There was a little steam eruption today about noon. You could sort-of see > the cloud from taller buildings here in Portland, but so far, no biggie. > > a. Bummer! I thought you were posting something about Mont Saint-Hilaire. Don From Lapadary at aol.com Fri Oct 1 14:14:53 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Fri Oct 1 14:14:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lakeview to La Pine Oregon Message-ID: <1ea.2b6aff1b.2e8f22cd@aol.com> In a message dated 9/30/04 8:46:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time, haysebes@epud.net writes: Blue Agate: Take Hwy 395 South 4 miles and hike into hills. >>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------->>>>>>>> Thanks for all the responses, especially the tip about blue agate. From what I remember about the area south of Lakeview, the land west of Highway 395 is flat, probably part of the dry lake bed, so the hills must be on the East side. Also, 10 miles north of the state line would be about 4 miles south of Lakeview. Map Quest shows 14.3 miles from New Pine Creek to Lakeview. New Pine Creek straddles the CA/OR state line. The other couple that were going with us might cancel which would leave my wife and I free to go anyplace that interest us. I really like the area near Surprise Valley, CA and Washoe Co. NV. On the other hand, It's less than 100 miles from LaPine to Richardson's Ranch. Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kugeln at msn.com Fri Oct 1 14:32:44 2004 From: kugeln at msn.com (JOHN STOCKWELL) Date: Fri Oct 1 14:33:05 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lakeview to La Pine Oregon References: <1ea.2b6aff1b.2e8f22cd@aol.com> Message-ID: Inquire at the rock shop for directions to Crane Creek, where rather nice thundereggs with blue agate may be found. The turnoff into the Warner Mountains is a few miles north of the Cal/Oregon line, a road that goes to the right directly north of a farmhouse. Once into the mountains it can be hard to find the diggings, but you'll come shortly to an obscure "Y" with the left branch descending to the left and slightly back, then curving around into the direction in which you've been heading. Take that, follow it on a ways, keeping an eye out through the trees for diggings a short distance from the road on the right. I'm working from memory, so "at your own risk," but maybe other members can correct me or be more detailed. Also if you drive east out of Lakeview straight up and then turn left at the top you'll be on a dirt road along which some jasper may be found. There's lots of petrified wood at various locations west of town. John From: Lapadary@aol.com To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Lakeview to La Pine Oregon In a message dated 9/30/04 8:46:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time, haysebes@epud.net writes: Blue Agate: Take Hwy 395 South 4 miles and hike into hills. >>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------->>>>>>>> Thanks for all the responses, especially the tip about blue agate. >From what I remember about the area south of Lakeview, the land west of Highway 395 is flat, probably part of the dry lake bed, so the hills must be on the East side. Also, 10 miles north of the state line would be about 4 miles south of Lakeview. Map Quest shows 14.3 miles from New Pine Creek to Lakeview. New Pine Creek straddles the CA/OR state line. The other couple that were going with us might cancel which would leave my wife and I free to go anyplace that interest us. I really like the area near Surprise Valley, CA and Washoe Co. NV. On the other hand, It's less than 100 miles from LaPine to Richardson's Ranch. Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Oct 1 14:37:15 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Oct 1 14:34:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ABBREVIATIONS References: Message-ID: <415DCD6E.5AB2@Tomaszewski.net> Aaron told us he was going up today. I watched it pop on the JRO volcanocam and its all over the news now. Wish I had been able to go. Kreigh HilmarKrocke wrote: > > my MIL recently made a trip and collected amethyst > > Any OR/WA folks planning on heading up to JRO to see things if and when she > pops? > __________________________________________________________________ > > Well, I still do not know what JRO means. > > I complained to the list about 3 years ago about the overwhelming usage of > silly abbreviations. > Nothing has changed. > It would be a matter of being considerate, instead of being annoying for > everybody to follow common practise. > Which is to explain every abbreviation the first time it is used in any > text. > Example : My MIL ( Mother in Law) recently made a trip. And a good MIL she > is. > We will see who will be considerate in the future and who will be not. > Hilmar From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Fri Oct 1 15:09:15 2004 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Fri Oct 1 15:08:19 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Loretone 12" Saw Parts List In-Reply-To: <00a201c4a7f6$4ef7c2b0$f25a2741@MCWIDOM> Message-ID: <881AE00B-13F6-11D9-A7D5-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Hi John, If the worst comes to the worst and you cannot find help elsewhere I could very likely fix the thing for you. I'm becoming a bit of a specialist in rehabbing old lapidary equipment, plus I home build a cabbing machine known as the "perpetual prototype" because no two are ever alike. As I said it's kind of a worst case scenario but if it does come to that email me privately and let's talk. Cheers, Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada From tim at orerockon.com Fri Oct 1 16:23:17 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Oct 1 16:23:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lakeview to La Pine Oregon In-Reply-To: <1ea.2b6aff1b.2e8f22cd@aol.com> References: <1ea.2b6aff1b.2e8f22cd@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041001161647.0268fac8@mail.spiritone.com> I hate top tell y'all but those are some lousy directions. 4 miles south of Lakeview is the mouth of Crane Creek. "Into the hills" is the crane creek thunderegg deposit, which, coincidentally, have "blue" agate centers. You can't get there without a topo map & the Modoc Forest map. Or my CD :) I know of no other agates in the vicinity, and I doubt there is any significant collecting area nearby. Plus you have to be careful as private ranches border the Modoc forest on the entire east side of 395. At 02:14 PM 10/1/2004, you wrote: >In a message dated 9/30/04 8:46:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >haysebes@epud.net writes: > > >Blue Agate: Take Hwy 395 South 4 miles and hike into hills. > > >>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------->>>>>>>> > >Thanks for all the responses, especially the tip about blue agate. From what >I remember about the area south of Lakeview, the land west of Highway 395 is >flat, probably part of the dry lake bed, so the hills must be on the East >side. >Also, 10 miles north of the state line would be about 4 miles south of >Lakeview. Map Quest shows 14.3 miles from New Pine Creek to Lakeview. New >Pine Creek >straddles the CA/OR state line. > >The other couple that were going with us might cancel which would leave my >wife and I free to go anyplace that interest us. I really like the area near >Surprise Valley, CA and Washoe Co. NV. On the other hand, It's less than 100 >miles from LaPine to Richardson's Ranch. > >Grant Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From tim at orerockon.com Fri Oct 1 16:24:38 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Oct 1 16:24:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lakeview to La Pine Oregon In-Reply-To: References: <1ea.2b6aff1b.2e8f22cd@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041001162333.02709ec0@mail.spiritone.com> Those directions are old; the road has since washed and been rebuilt twice. At 02:32 PM 10/1/2004, you wrote: >Inquire at the rock shop for directions to Crane Creek, where rather nice >thundereggs with blue agate may be found. The turnoff into the Warner >Mountains is a few miles north of the Cal/Oregon line, a road that goes to >the right directly north of a farmhouse. Once into the mountains it can be >hard to find the diggings, but you'll come shortly to an obscure "Y" with >the left branch descending to the left and slightly back, then curving >around into the direction in which you've been heading. Take that, follow >it on a ways, keeping an eye out through the trees for diggings a short >distance from the road on the right. I'm working from memory, so "at your >own risk," but maybe other members can correct me or be more detailed. > >Also if you drive east out of Lakeview straight up and then turn left at >the top you'll be on a dirt road along which some jasper may be found. >There's lots of petrified wood at various locations west of town. > >John > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From Lapadary at aol.com Fri Oct 1 19:43:29 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Fri Oct 1 19:43:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lakeview to La Pine Oregon Message-ID: <146.351e1b8e.2e8f6fd1@aol.com> In a message dated 10/1/04 9:17:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, tim@orerockon.com writes: I have sites around Lakeview on my CD... Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------->>> >>>>>> Tim, I looked over the OreRockOn site and never did see a price. I will not be home long enough to get a CD mailed to me. Online access might work for me, if I don't leave until Sunday and had Saturday to explore the site. However, when I clicked the online version for the topo map of Richardson Ranch to see how it functioned it didn't work at all on AOL. I switched to Internet Explorer through my SBCGlobal access and it opened the topo map without trouble. So far, so good. I zoomed in on the topo map to the point where I could read details; springs, camping, red bed, etc. Then I looked at where your 26 Oregon sites were located. I only saw one site marked in the Lakeview area. If that is Davis Creek I don't need a map. I've been there already. This time I'm not going on a well-planned trip. The date I leave Chico has not even been decided, but I will be gone by Monday afternoon. Also, my route from here to Klamath Co. is very ambiguous and this time of year the weather is totally unpredictable. Since I'm traveling in a motor home I might not even get off the pavement if the weather is bad. And if the weather is real good I might go down to Duck Lake and Lost Creek in Washoe Co., NV or out into Virgin Valley or even to the Black Rock. For all those reasons cost of a subscription is an important factor. (I like websites where the cost is well marked. A large font in bright red works well for me.) My decision to subscribe would be based on the cost, when my RVing companion tells me he can leave, and what the Weather Channel tells me the long range weather forecast is going to be. Knowing the name of the one site near Lakeview might be a selling point too. If I had started planing this trip 3 weeks ago I would buy the CD -- but we are really just going up to Fort Klamath to check how the tenant left the pasture on my wife's ranch. I'm tagging some rockhounding on a business trip. Grant Johnston, Chico, CA --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Fri Oct 1 22:23:20 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Fri Oct 1 22:17:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ABBREVIATIONS References: <006101c4a7c0$005ed1b0$c3e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <001501c4a83f$efe0a720$18a5490c@pete> Oh, now I see, Earl, you mean you learned that rule from TRU, right? [private joke; Earl's letter shows what that means. But they changed the name (and acronym)!--government and companies both like to do that; now it's CTR = Central Technical Reports, our editing group] Cheers in return, Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "SHM" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 8:06 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] ABBREVIATIONS > ... Here is one of the cardinal rules drilled into us by the Technical Reports > Unit of the U.S. (OK, I'll use one abbreviation!) Geological Survey: Don't > abbrev. unless nec. That's for formal writing, of course, but some > attention to this rule, especially as applied to unfamiliar or local > abbreviations, would be welcome on this list. > > Cheers! Earl From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Fri Oct 1 22:36:03 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Fri Oct 1 22:29:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ABBREV. + MSH + the other MSH + Hot Spots References: <62.44b1bf12.2e8f12b9@aol.com> Message-ID: <002f01c4a841$b5c2ce40$18a5490c@pete> Grant, Back when I was in the USAF at Kirtland AFB, DNA stood for "Defense Nuclear Agency". But I don't think that's quite what it meanss to your email list! And, Don, ('nother topic), I guess MSH (the Quebec one) hasn't erupted in quite some few years! P.S., now I'll build on that thought to create a divergent topic. I just finished listening to, as a book on tape, to John McPhee's "Rising From the Plains", mostly about Wyoming geology and the late geologist, David Love. Though I'd read the book once before, years ago, I heard some interesting geological things I had never remembered reading. One was, he has quite a section on "hot spots" and mantle plumes. A part of it discussed how (by some interpretations) the North American plate, passing over several "hot spots" which later gave rise to chains of seamounts (extinct volcanoes) in the Atlantic, created magmatic effects on the continent as it passed over them. The Monteregian Hills (of which MSH is one), by one interpretation, may have been created as North America glided over one hot spot, which, as the plate moved on, also gave rise to some of the granite magmas in the White Mountains of NH/ME. Now, whether that interpretation still all holds together, I'm not sure. Another hot spot is inferred to have uplifted the Great Smoky Mountains, then later created Bermuda. Pete Modreski > ------------------------------------------------------------>>> > The solution might be for word processor programs and email generators to > fill in the untyped letters. That way I would write MIL and the program write > mother-in-law. That would be great on a DNA list I read. ... > Grant From ItalianMinerals at libero.it Sat Oct 2 02:55:13 2004 From: ItalianMinerals at libero.it (Italian Minerals) Date: Sat Oct 2 03:05:19 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New items on Ebay ! Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20041002114521.01b20dd0@popmail.libero.it> Hi there collectors ! New items on Ebay at interesting starting bid price and a lot of nice crystals to win !!! TOPAZ, TOURMALINE, WULFENITE, ANALCIME, ARAGONITE, DIOPTASE, CHALCOCITE, FLUORITE, STIBNITE are available for you ! As usual follow this link to reach them: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQgotopageZ1QQsassZitalianmineralsQQsosortorderZ1QQsosortpropertyZ1 If you have time visit also our website ... right now nice cassiterite from China and pyromorphite from Spain have been added. Goto : www.ItalianMinerals.com regards, Alessandro (Italianminerals.com) ****************** You receive this email since you have been in touch with us at least once. In case you do not want to receive our unfrequent mailing, just let us know. ****************** ============================= Italian Minerals http://www.italianminerals.com quality minerals from Italy and worldwide ============================= --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kugeln at msn.com Sat Oct 2 10:22:42 2004 From: kugeln at msn.com (JOHN STOCKWELL) Date: Sat Oct 2 10:23:06 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lakeview to La Pine Oregon References: <146.351e1b8e.2e8f6fd1@aol.com> Message-ID: Grant, Since Tim so kindly in his fashion corrected my directions as I hoped SOMEONE would if necessary, I'm now looking at my Crane Creek file, which I was not when writing the earlier email. Thought you were in a hurry, and I WAS at the time. So let's see if there's anything useful. It HAS been probably half a dozen years, maybe a few more, since I last visited the thunderegg locality. Over the years there has been put out lots of information (and misinformation) about whether or not it was possible to reach it, including that the road had been blocked off by the authorities. The turnoff from the highway is 9 miles north of the village of New Pine Creek which sits right on the state line. (So not just "a few miles north.") Tim is right about the mileage south of Lakeview. The first time I visited the diggings I simply wandered around on the logging roads, basically lost, until I finally found them. Allowing for the fact that the road has been washed out and rebuilt (per Tim) you should be able to find the beds. If you have Mitchell's Oregon book, look at the map. The "Y" to which I referred I believe is just before the "wash" marked on his map. At that time the road crossed the wash there, after which it was easy to find the diggings. Indeed a topo would be useful, especially if so far as possible you transferred Mitchell's directions to it. The road directly out of Lakeview to the east goes up Bullard Canyon. Walk a dirt/gravel road which ascends moderately steeply to the north off the canyon road. Jasper is sparse. No promises. A bit of amethyst occasionally. Thundereggs are also found southwest of Lakeview near Dry Creek, but they are not of quality. Wood is abundant west of town. Agate somewhat resembling that from Hart Mountain is also found west of town. This time of year the agate area will be picked over pretty completely. The agate has a local name (after a local collector), which just now escapes me. The folks at the shop can give you details. Happy collecting! John ----- Original Message ----- From: Lapadary@aol.com To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Lakeview to La Pine Oregon In a message dated 10/1/04 9:17:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, tim@orerockon.com writes: I have sites around Lakeview on my CD... Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------->>> >>>>>> Tim, I looked over the OreRockOn site and never did see a price. I will not be home long enough to get a CD mailed to me. Online access might work for me, if I don't leave until Sunday and had Saturday to explore the site. However, when I clicked the online version for the topo map of Richardson Ranch to see how it functioned it didn't work at all on AOL. I switched to Internet Explorer through my SBCGlobal access and it opened the topo map without trouble. So far, so good. I zoomed in on the topo map to the point where I could read details; springs, camping, red bed, etc. Then I looked at where your 26 Oregon sites were located. I only saw one site marked in the Lakeview area. If that is Davis Creek I don't need a map. I've been there already. This time I'm not going on a well-planned trip. The date I leave Chico has not even been decided, but I will be gone by Monday afternoon. Also, my route from here to Klamath Co. is very ambiguous and this time of year the weather is totally unpredictable. Since I'm traveling in a motor home I might not even get off the pavement if the weather is bad. And if the weather is real good I might go down to Duck Lake and Lost Creek in Washoe Co., NV or out into Virgin Valley or even to the Black Rock. For all those reasons cost of a subscription is an important factor. (I like websites where the cost is well marked. A large font in bright red works well for me.) My decision to subscribe would be based on the cost, when my RVing companion tells me he can leave, and what the Weather Channel tells me the long range weather forecast is going to be. Knowing the name of the one site near Lakeview might be a selling point too. If I had started planing this trip 3 weeks ago I would buy the CD -- but we are really just going up to Fort Klamath to check how the tenant left the pasture on my wife's ranch. I'm tagging some rockhounding on a business trip. Grant Johnston, Chico, CA --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rainforest1950 at lycos.com Sat Oct 2 16:00:56 2004 From: rainforest1950 at lycos.com (rain forest) Date: Sat Oct 2 16:00:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens to Alert 3 Message-ID: <20041002230056.647FD3384B@ws7-3.us4.outblaze.com> Following a second steam/ash release today which was followed by tremors and quakes; USGS has evacuated the Johnson Ridge Observatory. Tremors are caused by movement of gas or fluids. There has been observed a new vent near the lava dome and instruments are detecting bulging. David Bese The Rainforest Hippie Pt. Orchard, Wa. -- _______________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Sat Oct 2 19:52:31 2004 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Sat Oct 2 19:51:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for an old, narrow, cab machine v-belt In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <44FA2829-14E7-11D9-8D5E-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Hi everyone, Can anyone help me find a replacement for the narrow v-belt that fits on an old Beacon Star 6" saw-cabber combo unit? Belt dimensions are 18" total length x 3/16" width at the top of the V, 1/8" width at the bottom of the V, and 1/8" thick from top to bottom. Beacon Star is long gone, but they likely didn't make their own V belts, but would have gotten them from a supplier. Any suggestions where I might find such a supplier will be gratefully appreciated. Cheers & thanks Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada From afox at drizzle.com Sat Oct 2 19:57:45 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Sat Oct 2 19:57:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens to Alert 3 In-Reply-To: <20041002230056.647FD3384B@ws7-3.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: A friend of mine is a student employee at the Cascades Volcano Observatory; she's been working nights all week watching the remote telemetry so that the scientists can get some sleep. Apparently, it's been a mix of excitment (volcanologists seeing an actual eruption) and dread (having to answer questions from legions of idiotic reporters who either take no time to do their background research or who are convinced they know more than the scientists. There is definite expansion and deflection beneath the dome; however most of the stretching appears to be outside the limits of the visible plug dome and underneath the glacier behind it and between it and the crater wall. The gut feeling from the folks there (at least hearing it third-hand from a couple of different folks) is that it may be a week or two of steam eruptions, with little to no ash or fluids. However, nobody there really knows what its going to do... I headed up to the Johnston Ridge Observatory today, but was turned around a ways away due to the volcano alerts. However, being a stubborn geologist with a brand-new 4x4, I found some ungated back roads heading up the south side of the Toutle River. Though I didn't make it far, I'm still impressed that you can see beautiful cross-sections of the flood deposits laid down during the 1980 eruptions. For a geologist, it was pretty cool; I'll post pictures on my website later this week. a. > Following a second steam/ash release today which was followed by > tremors and quakes; USGS has evacuated the Johnson Ridge Observatory. > Tremors are caused by movement of gas or fluids. There has been observed > a new vent near the lava dome and instruments are detecting bulging. > > David Bese > The Rainforest Hippie > Pt. Orchard, Wa. > > > > -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From tim at orerockon.com Sat Oct 2 11:29:42 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sat Oct 2 19:58:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: New crop of Dust Devil sunstones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041002112516.02692ec0@mail.spiritone.com> Just a quick note to let you all know that I am back from a week digging at the Dust Devil Mine and have bucu sunstones for sale on my site. Click on the Lapidary Materials link at the end of this message and scroll down to Sunstones. As usual I expect the reds to go pretty fast, as I never seem to be able to keep them around very long. And this time I did get a handful of small reds, so those of you looking for smaller reds earlier this summer when I had none, I have a few now. I also added light red & pale colored stones to my selection since many of the stones this year were lightly saturated, compared to the "cherry" reds of years past. I don't know when the mining is going to be this good again (it actually wasn't nearly as good as years past since they have started to reclaim the former "glory holes" lol), as the mine is preparing to do reclamation on the back half of the claim and is moving into unexplored territory next season. The days of the really intensely cherry colored reds seem to be over for a while now, as I have not seen anyone come up with a AAA grade red like I was used to digging the past 7 or 8 years at all this year (I found a 120 carat stone of that quality last October, and I suspect that was one of the last to come from the mine). Let's hope that the new area will get back into the choice reds of the back end of the claim; the claim next door was dug briefly about 4 years ago and they got one 600 carat red stone for their efforts that I heard was as deep red as they come. Not to mention the single biggest red sunstone I have ever heard of from the Rabbit Basin. They are moving towards that hole, although I suspect it will be 3 or 4 years before they get that far. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary From Lapadary at aol.com Sat Oct 2 20:19:35 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Sat Oct 2 20:19:41 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for an old, narrow, cab machine v-belt Message-ID: <142.353eec35.2e90c9c7@aol.com> In a message dated 10/2/04 7:52:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sinico@nbnet.nb.ca writes: Hi everyone, Can anyone help me find a replacement for the narrow v-belt that fits on an old Beacon Star 6" saw-cabber combo unit? Belt dimensions are 18" total length x 3/16" width at the top of the V, 1/8" width at the bottom of the V, and 1/8" thick from top to bottom. Beacon Star is long gone, but they likely didn't make their own V belts, but would have gotten them from a supplier. Check here. http://www.rexxon.net Grant Johnston, Chico, CA --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Oct 2 20:38:10 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Oct 2 20:38:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for an old, narrow, cab machine v-belt References: <44FA2829-14E7-11D9-8D5E-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Message-ID: <415F741C.3AB0@Tomaszewski.net> Hans, I have had only two instances where I could not find a needed v-belt at my local auto parts store. I found one of them by checking with my small engine repair shop that does my lawnmower and snowblower, and the other was found at the local industrial supply house via a referral from my local hardware store. I have a friend who recently found an odd belt by going to the local part supplier for appliance repair (things like washing machine parts, furnace parts, stove parts, vacuum cleaner parts, dishwasher parts, etc.). I remember an old friend who once found an odd belt by going to a farm equipment dealer that handled tractors, reapers, planters, bailers, etc. And when all else fails, don't forget that you can probably find replacement pulleys of the same diameter, and shaft size, that take an available belt. BTW, have you put the belt specs into a google (and froogle) search? Google usualy gives me enough words (and numbers) to describe any specific part I need -- and generally find more than one supplier. I usually order words in order of inportance; sometimes asking a question (using reasonably proper grammer, including all proper punctuation) works better. I hope this helps. Kreigh Hans Durstling wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > Can anyone help me find a replacement for the narrow v-belt that fits > on an old Beacon Star 6" saw-cabber combo unit? > > Belt dimensions are 18" total length x 3/16" width at the top of the V, > 1/8" width at the bottom of the V, and 1/8" thick from top to bottom. > > Beacon Star is long gone, but they likely didn't make their own V > belts, but would have gotten them from a supplier. > > Any suggestions where I might find such a supplier will be gratefully > appreciated. > > Cheers & thanks > Hans Durstling > Moncton, Canada > From tim at orerockon.com Sat Oct 2 11:24:55 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sat Oct 2 20:39:33 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lakeview to La Pine Oregon In-Reply-To: References: <146.351e1b8e.2e8f6fd1@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041002111631.026b2ec0@mail.spiritone.com> The agate is Tracinite, and it is more Hart Mtn. jasper, but is a jasp-agate instead of a true jasper. I don't think most people could get to the thunderegg beds without at least the Modoc Forest map, since the roads have changed in two places, John, not just at the ford. And Mitchell's directions were never right to begin with. I tried to follow them with the Modoc NF map AND the topo & failed. I finally asked the crew rebuilding the road and they showed me the new ford. It was not at all obvious, nor was it signed. Once you get up the ridge, the road washed out again and now goes around (sort of) the old, swampy road. Again, no new signs, just a new (at the time) skidder road. All this for some thundereggs of very questionable quality. Once you have been there, you don't need to go back :) At 10:22 AM 10/2/2004, you wrote: >Grant, > >Since Tim so kindly in his fashion corrected my directions as I hoped >SOMEONE would if necessary, I'm now looking at my Crane Creek file, which >I was not when writing the earlier email. Thought you were in a hurry, and >I WAS at the time. So let's see if there's anything useful. It HAS been >probably half a dozen years, maybe a few more, since I last visited the >thunderegg locality. Over the years there has been put out lots of >information (and misinformation) about whether or not it was possible to >reach it, including that the road had been blocked off by the authorities. > >The turnoff from the highway is 9 miles north of the village of New Pine >Creek which sits right on the state line. (So not just "a few miles >north.") Tim is right about the mileage south of Lakeview. The first time >I visited the diggings I simply wandered around on the logging roads, >basically lost, until I finally found them. Allowing for the fact that the >road has been washed out and rebuilt (per Tim) you should be able to find >the beds. If you have Mitchell's Oregon book, look at the map. The "Y" to >which I referred I believe is just before the "wash" marked on his map. At >that time the road crossed the wash there, after which it was easy to find >the diggings. Indeed a topo would be useful, especially if so far as >possible you transferred Mitchell's directions to it. > >The road directly out of Lakeview to the east goes up Bullard Canyon. Walk >a dirt/gravel road which ascends moderately steeply to the north off the >canyon road. Jasper is sparse. No promises. A bit of amethyst occasionally. > >Thundereggs are also found southwest of Lakeview near Dry Creek, but they >are not of quality. Wood is abundant west of town. Agate somewhat >resembling that from Hart Mountain is also found west of town. This time >of year the agate area will be picked over pretty completely. The agate >has a local name (after a local collector), which just now escapes me. The >folks at the shop can give you details. > >Happy collecting! > >John Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From Ted at crystalgems.com Sun Oct 3 09:00:48 2004 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted) Date: Sun Oct 3 09:01:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for an old, narrow, cab machine v-belt In-Reply-To: <415F741C.3AB0@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <003601c4a962$28032380$0200a8c0@gametime> Hans: This particular suggestion may not help, but wood working supply places (and Amazon) are selling link belts to replace V-belts. I am not aware of a link belt in the size cross section you are looking for, but possibly it is available. The link belts are customizable by adding or subtracting links and reportedly run much smoother than regular V-belts. Some simple info (both lines are one link, cut and paste if the link is not live): http://www.woodcraft.com/Woodcraft/assets/html/linkbelts.asp?mscssid=C4691C7 3CF224352B691E9F9AD9948E9&Gift=False&GiftID= >From the manufacturer: http://www.fptgroup.com/downloads/friction_powertwistplus.pdf Another possible source: http://www.mcmaster.com/ Search for V-belts and go to the catalog page. I didn't see the size you are looking for, but perhaps further searching can locate. One final comment: The size you mention is darn close to round. You may be able to use a round belt in 1/8" diameter. Searching Mcmaster.com for round belt comes up with several options in that diameter. Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA > Belt dimensions are 18" total length x 3/16" width at the top of the V, > 1/8" width at the bottom of the V, and 1/8" thick from top to bottom. > > > Cheers & thanks > Hans Durstling > Moncton, Canada > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kugeln at msn.com Sun Oct 3 09:48:03 2004 From: kugeln at msn.com (JOHN STOCKWELL) Date: Sun Oct 3 09:49:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lakeview to La Pine Oregon References: <146.351e1b8e.2e8f6fd1@aol.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20041002111631.026b2ec0@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Tim. I appreciate the information should I wish to revisit the locality. I find the thundereggs pleasing. John ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Fisher To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Lakeview to La Pine Oregon The agate is Tracinite, and it is more Hart Mtn. jasper, but is a jasp-agate instead of a true jasper. I don't think most people could get to the thunderegg beds without at least the Modoc Forest map, since the roads have changed in two places, John, not just at the ford. And Mitchell's directions were never right to begin with. I tried to follow them with the Modoc NF map AND the topo & failed. I finally asked the crew rebuilding the road and they showed me the new ford. It was not at all obvious, nor was it signed. Once you get up the ridge, the road washed out again and now goes around (sort of) the old, swampy road. Again, no new signs, just a new (at the time) skidder road. All this for some thundereggs of very questionable quality. Once you have been there, you don't need to go back :) At 10:22 AM 10/2/2004, you wrote: >Grant, > >Since Tim so kindly in his fashion corrected my directions as I hoped >SOMEONE would if necessary, I'm now looking at my Crane Creek file, which >I was not when writing the earlier email. Thought you were in a hurry, and >I WAS at the time. So let's see if there's anything useful. It HAS been >probably half a dozen years, maybe a few more, since I last visited the >thunderegg locality. Over the years there has been put out lots of >information (and misinformation) about whether or not it was possible to >reach it, including that the road had been blocked off by the authorities. > >The turnoff from the highway is 9 miles north of the village of New Pine >Creek which sits right on the state line. (So not just "a few miles >north.") Tim is right about the mileage south of Lakeview. The first time >I visited the diggings I simply wandered around on the logging roads, >basically lost, until I finally found them. Allowing for the fact that the >road has been washed out and rebuilt (per Tim) you should be able to find >the beds. If you have Mitchell's Oregon book, look at the map. The "Y" to >which I referred I believe is just before the "wash" marked on his map. At >that time the road crossed the wash there, after which it was easy to find >the diggings. Indeed a topo would be useful, especially if so far as >possible you transferred Mitchell's directions to it. > >The road directly out of Lakeview to the east goes up Bullard Canyon. Walk >a dirt/gravel road which ascends moderately steeply to the north off the >canyon road. Jasper is sparse. No promises. A bit of amethyst occasionally. > >Thundereggs are also found southwest of Lakeview near Dry Creek, but they >are not of quality. Wood is abundant west of town. Agate somewhat >resembling that from Hart Mountain is also found west of town. This time >of year the agate area will be picked over pretty completely. The agate >has a local name (after a local collector), which just now escapes me. The >folks at the shop can give you details. > >Happy collecting! > >John Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Sat Oct 2 22:10:53 2004 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Sun Oct 3 11:35:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Stromatolite Samples References: Message-ID: <000201c4a977$cdd69110$9d3d27c4@privatehome> Could you please send me a sample of this fossilized stone? (I live in South Africa, was Chairman of the Pretoria Gem and Mineral Club from 1967 to 2001 (am now Honorary Preseident) and at the moment am President of the Federation of Southern African Gem and Mineralogical Societies (to which there are 13 Clubs affiliated in Southern Africa). Every Easter we hold a GEMBOREE (I am the only one who has attended all 36) and if the material is of interest, I could show this to our members at thd GEMBOREE to create an interest in purchasing.) My postal address is as follows:- Horst Windisch P.O. Box 17273 Groenkloof SOUTH AFRICA 0027 (Please mark parcel - contents:-"geological specimen, no commercial value") Looking forward to his beautiful stone. Please advise when dispatched. Kind regards, Horst--- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 3:40 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Stromatolite Samples > From: Crescent Stone Company > crescentstoneinc@aol.com > http://www.crescentstone.com/ > 2915 West 44th Street > Mpls., MN 55410 > 888-400-0094 > > We are resending this Email offer because it got kicked out because the first > had FREE in beginning of Email subject. > We are offering free samples to sellers or collectors of rough stone, and > finished we are embarking on what we feel will be the marketing of the next big > thing in beautiful fossilized stone. If you feel you could market this > product please Email your shipping address so we can ship free sample you pay only > for shipping. This organism created the first oxygen on Earth as well as > being between 1.7-3.5 billion years old. > We are now in the process of making an educational film about this fossil as > well as in contact with Smithsonian as to their planned new wing on the most > important and beautiful fossil on Earth, Stromatolite (algal) Stone. The > quality ranges from construction grade to jewelry grade. You can go to > http://www.crescentstone.com/ for geologist authentication. > When you reply to free offer please explain your use so we can send correct > sample. Sample will be about size 2.5"x2.5". > You will be responsible for UPS shipping not handling. > > > > Sincerely; Steve DeLong/Owner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From CrescentStoneINC at aol.com Sun Oct 3 11:57:51 2004 From: CrescentStoneINC at aol.com (CrescentStoneINC@aol.com) Date: Sun Oct 3 11:57:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Stromatolite Samples Message-ID: <9f.4ee8cac7.2e91a5af@aol.com> From: Crescent Stone Company We will be sending samples starting Monday, I will be checking cost by postal service shipping, you will be responsible for shipping cost not handling. Samples will be %100 Stromatolites. Here is an example attached in picture. Sincerely: Steve DeLong/Owner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg --- From kahako at aloha.net Sun Oct 3 13:18:03 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Oct 3 12:49:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] crystals for kids, please Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041003100104.0332b030@mail.aloha.net> Hi all, I'm going to be presenting a rock and mineral demonstrations to about 60 5th and 6th graders sometime after Christmas. I do this a couple of times a year at different schools and for different age groups, and include demos of fluorescent minerals (LW and SW). The teachers say these kids are especially enthusiastic and will want to do "hands on" stuff. I'll divide them into small groups so they have a better chance to look closely and touch things. But I'd love to be able to send each kid home with a "treasure." The main reason for this is that kids in Hawaii can seen sand and lava, and that's about it. I'd love to let each of them have a small quartz crystal or a bit of "fools gold" to keep. If any of you have some little crystals (amethyst would be great!), or pyrite, or fossils, or anything that would stimulate a 10- or 11-year-old's imagination, I'd greatly appreciate it!! I can pay for postage and packaging, and maybe a couple of dollars for your trouble, but nothing more. And if any of you would like some sand or lava from here, I'd gladly exchange! Please contact me off-list and I'll give you my postal address. Mahalo, Kitty From Lapadary at aol.com Sun Oct 3 14:25:26 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Sun Oct 3 14:25:33 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] glassy rhyolite or obsidian? Message-ID: <14.352a7445.2e91c846@aol.com> I found this reference to an archeological specimen described as more like a "glassy rhyolite than an obsidian." I'm not sure what they mean by that. I'm familiar with rhyolite, especially the kind from Topaz Mountain, UT. Any suggestions how this translates? ".......and five samples (the Alturas Airport Unknown A source) failed to match any sources in our laboratory source reference database. Freshly-cleaved surfaces of flakes from this unknown source are dark gray in color, exhibit a matte surface texture and slightly earthy surface luster, and are relatively free from inclusions. Thin flakes are completely opaque. Although this source is probably better described as a glassy rhyolite than an obsidian, the toolstone quality of this lithic material is very good. Similar materials have been proven to be excellent candidates for trace element characterization studies (Newman and Nielsen 1987)." http://www.sourcecatalog.com/ca/s_ca.html I will be in that area by Monday night. It would be nice to find an obscure specimin, even if it was just a few flakes. Grant JOHNSTON, Chico, CA --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From JScully216 at aol.com Sun Oct 3 15:08:50 2004 From: JScully216 at aol.com (JScully216@aol.com) Date: Sun Oct 3 15:09:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ad: Nacimiento Mine Azurites and Wood on e-Bay Message-ID: <104.516dc38b.2e91d272@aol.com> Hi, I've just put a bunch of azurite concretion specimens and two wood replaced by chacocite specimens on E-bay under jscully216. These are from a new claim my partners and I established recently called the Lost Lake Claim which is a portion of the old Nacimiento Copper Mine outside of Cuba, NM. They can also be viewed on my website at http://www.feraloldguy.com (-: John Scully --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Oct 3 15:16:07 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Oct 3 15:13:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] glassy rhyolite or obsidian? References: <14.352a7445.2e91c846@aol.com> Message-ID: <41607986.5359@Tomaszewski.net> Grant, Rhyolites have a silica content greater than 68% so they usually are glassy. It almost always comes from eruptions with temperatures between 700 and 850 C. How they erupt and cool have a big impact on their appearance. Explosive eruptions of rhyolite tend to produce pumice. Effusive eruptions tend to produce obsidian. Rhyolite tends to erupt explosively because the high silica content gives it a very high viscosity, which hinders degassing. From the texture you describe it sounds like it had some time to cool, like in the deeper surface portions of a dome, but not enough time to form large crystals. Kreigh Lapadary@aol.com wrote: > > I found this reference to an archeological specimen described as more like a > "glassy rhyolite than an obsidian." I'm not sure what they mean by that. I'm > familiar with rhyolite, especially the kind from Topaz Mountain, UT. Any > suggestions how this translates? > ".......and five samples (the Alturas Airport Unknown A source) failed to > match any sources in our laboratory source reference database. Freshly-cleaved > surfaces of flakes from this unknown source are dark gray in color, exhibit a > matte surface texture and slightly earthy surface luster, and are relatively > free from inclusions. Thin flakes are completely opaque. Although this source is > probably better described as a glassy rhyolite than an obsidian, the toolstone > quality of this lithic material is very good. Similar materials have been > proven to be excellent candidates for trace element characterization studies > (Newman and Nielsen 1987)." http://www.sourcecatalog.com/ca/s_ca.html > I will be in that area by Monday night. It would be nice to find an obscure > specimin, even if it was just a few flakes. > Grant JOHNSTON, Chico, CA > From teyancey at mail.tca.net Sun Oct 3 15:51:05 2004 From: teyancey at mail.tca.net (Thomas Yancey) Date: Sun Oct 3 16:04:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] glassy rhyolite or obsidian? In-Reply-To: <14.352a7445.2e91c846@aol.com> References: <14.352a7445.2e91c846@aol.com> Message-ID: Grant, The description and name suggest that the material being described is a rhyolite that was extruded and flowed as a normal rhyolite, but came to the surface as an extremely hot flow. These may be erupted like typical rhyolite flows, but usually have fewer clasts and those are of smaller size. Because the flow deposit is so hot, it tends to partially remelt the glassy clasts and compact the deposit, producing a very glassy rock. The more familiar rhyolites (like the Topaz Mountain one) erupt with many more clasts, including large ones, and are cooler, and therefore retain the original texture better than the very hot flows. They also may be only weakly lithified. T. Yancey >I found this reference to an archeological specimen described as more like a >"glassy rhyolite than an obsidian." I'm not sure what they mean by that. I'm >familiar with rhyolite, especially the kind from Topaz Mountain, UT. Any >suggestions how this translates? >".......and five samples (the Alturas Airport Unknown A source) failed to >match any sources in our laboratory source reference database. Freshly-cleaved >surfaces of flakes from this unknown source are dark gray in color, exhibit a >matte surface texture and slightly earthy surface luster, and are relatively >free from inclusions. Thin flakes are completely opaque. Although >this source is >probably better described as a glassy rhyolite than an obsidian, the toolstone >quality of this lithic material is very good. Similar materials have been >proven to be excellent candidates for trace element characterization studies >(Newman and Nielsen 1987)." http://www.sourcecatalog.com/ca/s_ca.html >I will be in that area by Monday night. It would be nice to find an obscure >specimin, even if it was just a few flakes. >Grant JOHNSTON, Chico, CA From jpjunk at mc.net Sun Oct 3 16:25:29 2004 From: jpjunk at mc.net (jjunkroski) Date: Sun Oct 3 16:22:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dugway Geodes In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20041003100104.0332b030@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: Thirty years ago I took my pre-teen nephews out to look for Dugway Geodes. It was their first trip onto the desert and we had some success, filling a five-gallon bucket with mostly golf-ball size specimens many of which show a nice fluorescence under SW U-V. We are considering repeating the trip next spring, and being somewhat more experienced, we'd hope to find some larger ones and perhaps a bit more variety. Can anyone suggest locations? Anyone been out there since 9/11? Have the military tightened up? I seem to remember we roamed around aimlessly all over the "Proving Grounds" and nobody seemed to care. Also, any other sites within a half-days ride where we would have a chance at finding anything fluorescent ? Any tips will be greatly appreciated...the kids are now grown men and it sure would be fun to see if we can do it again. Thanks, "Junk" From Lapadary at aol.com Sun Oct 3 16:31:12 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Sun Oct 3 16:31:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dugway Geodes Message-ID: In a message dated 10/3/04 4:22:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jpjunk@mc.net writes: Also, any other sites within a half-days ride where we would have a chance at finding anything fluorescent ? ---------------------------------------------------->>>>... Have you ever been to Topaz Mountain? It is only a few miles south of Dugway. I'm not into black light but there is a lot to see at Topaz. http://www.millardcounty.com/topazmtn.html Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockcurrier at cs.com Sun Oct 3 17:12:21 2004 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Sun Oct 3 17:09:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Abreviations in liteature and casual messages References: <200410020100.i9210nCq008988@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <005c01c4a9a6$d1f18c30$ebe2a5d8@Rock5> I was told once that the reasons that Herbert Hovers translation of De Rey Metalica was considered the best translation ever made was that he was a mining engineer and was actually able to figure out more accurate translations for the Latin word contractions (abbreviations) than other translators who did not have the mining and ore processing knowledge that he did. I think these abbreviations, acronyms will be with us even more in the future LOL. (laugh a lot). I don't know how many people out there have ever used any of the instant messaging services out there like AOL (America on Line) offers, but it is quite common that the people who use it do not use any capitol letters and have their own set of abbreviations that everyone is expected to know. They also sprinkle the text with various kinds of happy face symbols. I wonder where this will all lead. I suspect that it will all disappear when it becomes easy and second nature to use real time video and voice to communicate rather that this rather slow, have to type it all into text. It is going to get worse before it gets better. Rock From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sun Oct 3 18:14:45 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sun Oct 3 18:08:52 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] glassy rhyolite or obsidian? References: <14.352a7445.2e91c846@aol.com> Message-ID: <006e01c4a9af$92ae8ba0$f5a4490c@pete> To add my two cents about glassy rhyolite, There are all graditions between perfect, glassy obsidian (rhyolite lava which is a supercooled liquid, just like man-made glass), and "ordinary" rhyolite where the lava cooled slowly enough to form a complete intergrowth of tiny crystals, so that the rhyolite is opaque, white to gray, and rough-textured, with no glass left. Anything in between is possible; the rhyolite can be mostly or partly glassy, with a few microscopic crystals interspersed, enough to made it gray and translucent rather than transparent (appears black in large pieces), and not to break with the sharp-edged, perfectly conchoidal pattern of glassy obsidian. That's probably what they mean by "glassy rhyolite". Pete Modreski ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 3:25 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] glassy rhyolite or obsidian? > I found this reference to an archeological specimen described as more like a > "glassy rhyolite than an obsidian." I'm not sure what they mean by that. I'm > familiar with rhyolite, especially the kind from Topaz Mountain, UT. Any > suggestions how this translates? > ".......and five samples (the Alturas Airport Unknown A source) failed to > match any sources in our laboratory source reference database. Freshly-cleaved > surfaces of flakes from this unknown source are dark gray in color, exhibit a > matte surface texture and slightly earthy surface luster, and are relatively > free from inclusions. Thin flakes are completely opaque. Although this source is > probably better described as a glassy rhyolite than an obsidian, the toolstone > quality of this lithic material is very good. Similar materials have been > proven to be excellent candidates for trace element characterization studies > (Newman and Nielsen 1987)." http://www.sourcecatalog.com/ca/s_ca.html > I will be in that area by Monday night. It would be nice to find an obscure > specimin, even if it was just a few flakes. > Grant JOHNSTON, Chico, CA > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Lapadary at aol.com Sun Oct 3 18:17:38 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Sun Oct 3 18:17:42 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] glassy rhyolite or obsidian? Message-ID: <192.2faf1ac3.2e91feb2@aol.com> Thanks for all the replies about glassy rhyolite. I'm not sure I would recognize it but I tend to save things that break with a conchoidal fracture, often even ugly old leaverite. I've got a backyard full of that stuff -- and I'm not running out of room yet. ;-} Grant Johnston, Chico, CA --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mela at bartnet.net Sun Oct 3 19:52:14 2004 From: mela at bartnet.net (Mel Albright) Date: Sun Oct 3 19:57:20 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for an old, narrow, cab machine v-belt References: <44FA2829-14E7-11D9-8D5E-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> <415F741C.3AB0@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <004301c4a9bd$ddb18bd0$80b2950c@jessie> My locallly owned auto parts dealer has a 3 day delivery source for a number of odd sized rock saw and mower belts. You might check with yours. Mel Albright From gbrown at xmn.com Mon Oct 4 07:14:11 2004 From: gbrown at xmn.com (gary brown) Date: Mon Oct 4 07:09:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dr. Bill -- Rock Star! Message-ID: <200410041409.i94E9Bd6029913@bubbleator.drizzle.com> That's right.he's baaaccckkk! http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/9828393.htm GcB --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kjvgorock at juno.com Mon Oct 4 09:47:43 2004 From: kjvgorock at juno.com (kjvgorock@juno.com) Date: Mon Oct 4 09:50:41 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD - nice mineral specimens on eBay Message-ID: <20041004.114743.3116.1.kjvgorock@juno.com> Hi All, I'm helping a midwest rockhound sell some fine mineral specimens on eBay. There's a proustite & others - take a look: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQgotopageZ1QQsassZkvQ5fgoodrocksQQsosortorderZ 1QQsosortpropertyZ1 Thanks, Ken Vaisvil eBay ID: kv_goodrocks kjvgorock@juno.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 4 10:33:10 2004 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Mon Oct 4 10:33:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Microminerals from Sauktown Sales Message-ID: <20041004173310.95931.qmail@web51001.mail.yahoo.com> I've updated the Sauktown Sales price list again. Some of the new additions are: Idrialite & metacinnabar, CA Ferrostrunzite, NJ Devilline, AZ Minyulite, Australia Chapmanite, Czech Republic Straczekite, AR Kermesite, Canada Some are in short supply, and could go fast. Check out the list at http://www.sauktown.com Jim Daly ===== Jim Daly Sauktown Sales Micromount material and supplies http://www.sauktown.com/ orders@sauktown.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From Ted at crystalgems.com Mon Oct 4 10:52:36 2004 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted) Date: Mon Oct 4 10:52:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dugway Geodes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005001c4aa3a$f2d42130$0200a8c0@gametime> Junk: One would be remiss without checking Utah's website http://geology.utah.gov/ and Milliard County's site http://www.millardcounty.com/rock.html. For Utah's Geological Survey rockhound publications go to http://mapstore.utah.gov/ugs/fguide.htm. In addition to the Topaz mountain suggestion I like the trilobites at http://www.u-digfossils.com/. Or, you can wander the surrounding BLM lands for similar deposits (be careful of land under claim). The rock shop in Delta can help with info and may allow you onto their trilobite claim. Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of jjunkroski Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 7:25 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Dugway Geodes Thirty years ago I took my pre-teen nephews out to look for Dugway Geodes. It was their first trip onto the desert and we had some success, filling a five-gallon bucket with mostly golf-ball size specimens many of which show a nice fluorescence under SW U-V. We are considering repeating the trip next spring, and being somewhat more experienced, we'd hope to find some larger ones and perhaps a bit more variety. Can anyone suggest locations? Anyone been out there since 9/11? Have the military tightened up? I seem to remember we roamed around aimlessly all over the "Proving Grounds" and nobody seemed to care. Also, any other sites within a half-days ride where we would have a chance at finding anything fluorescent ? Any tips will be greatly appreciated...the kids are now grown men and it sure would be fun to see if we can do it again. Thanks, "Junk" _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From danielz at acmenet.net Mon Oct 4 11:18:12 2004 From: danielz at acmenet.net (Dan Z) Date: Mon Oct 4 11:18:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material Message-ID: <000701c4aa3e$83294230$44af61cc@M1Garand> Today I found that someone had posted forty pages of our book, Rockhounding in Eastern New York and Nearby New England, to an MSN Groups web site. When I emailed the owner, requesting he remove the material, he got mad at me! This is the second email I sent him after his angry first response: "Eric, we spent thousands of hours and drove thousands of miles to develop that book. We did so because good site information is so hard to find for this area. We make VERY little on the book after printing costs, preferring to help the hobbyist rather than try to gouge them. In fact, the book is selling for only a couple of dollars more now than it did when we first started it in 1990, despite the increases in paper and printing costs. "However it greatly upsets us to find that someone would rather steal the data than invest less than $10. Finding just one decent piece at any one of the sites would be worth more than that! If future editions of this book, are ever to be produced, hobbyists must support it. You might add a notice to your web site that posting of copyrighted materials will not be tolerated. To further this end, I have uploaded a picture than can be placed as number one on the maps section to: http://www.manyfacets.com/nocopy.jpg . Feel free to use it - no copyright on it ." Where do people get this attitude? How can someone get mad at me because illegal stolen material of mine is being used on his web site? I'm afraid I just don't understand.... Time to retire, maybe. -dan z- - - Protect your civil rights! Let the politicians know how you feel. Join or donate to the NRA today! http://membership.nrahq.org/default.asp?campaignid=XR014887 From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Mon Oct 4 11:46:43 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Mon Oct 4 11:41:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material In-Reply-To: <000701c4aa3e$83294230$44af61cc@M1Garand> Message-ID: <200410041841.i94Ifksu027984@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Dan, if you have a copyright in the book you can nail him for infringement. If you want to get nasty, you could probably find a lawyer that would work on contingency. GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Dan Z > Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 1:18 PM > To: Rockhound list danielz frm > Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material > > Today I found that someone had posted forty pages of our > book, Rockhounding in Eastern New York and Nearby New > England, to an MSN Groups web site. When I emailed the owner, > requesting he remove the material, he got mad at me!..... From Lapadary at aol.com Mon Oct 4 12:01:19 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Mon Oct 4 12:01:36 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material Message-ID: <1da.2c795fc5.2e92f7ff@aol.com> In a message dated 10/4/04 11:19:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, danielz@acmenet.net writes: Where do people get this attitude? How can someone get mad at me because illegal stolen material of mine is being used on his web site? I'm afraid I just don't understand.... ------------------------------------------------------- It's very simple Dan. They get their ego stroked by all the thank you's they get. A few years ago I was on a genealogy list and a bunch of old legal documents transcribed by my cousin -- and posted on her website -- kept being posted on the email list with another persons name at the bottom. About 2 out of 3 emails were 'thank you for your hard work,' but I knew that person was just cutting & pasting. After forwarding about three different things to my cousin, the theft stopped and the person never posted again. I don't know what Deborah said to that person but I do know if you see something posted online by "Yr. Obt. Svt., D. A. Bass-Frazier" it is not wize to steal it. Deborah transcribes old legal documents when she is not working on a case with her law firm in Mobile, AL. Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From danielz at acmenet.net Mon Oct 4 12:02:32 2004 From: danielz at acmenet.net (Dan Z) Date: Mon Oct 4 12:02:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material References: <200410041841.i94Ifksu027984@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <000701c4aa44$b4519500$44af61cc@M1Garand> Gary, When I first contacted him and MSN, all I requested was that the offending material be removed. His angry response to me boiled down to that I shouldn't have complained! When the acceptable response to complaints of theft is that you shouldn't complain, then it's time to get out of this hobby. The wrong people are in it. He has removed the material. If I find it there or elsewhere again, a suit will certainly be considered. -dan z- - - Protect your civil rights! Let the politicians know how you feel. Join or donate to the NRA today! http://membership.nrahq.org/default.asp?campaignid=XR014887 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Brown" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 2:46 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material > Dan, if you have a copyright in the book you can nail him for infringement. > If you want to get nasty, you could probably find a lawyer that would work > on contingency. > > GcB > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Dan Z > > Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 1:18 PM > > To: Rockhound list danielz frm > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material > > > > Today I found that someone had posted forty pages of our > > book, Rockhounding in Eastern New York and Nearby New > > England, to an MSN Groups web site. When I emailed the owner, > > requesting he remove the material, he got mad at me!..... > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From frankdewit at home.nl Mon Oct 4 12:04:45 2004 From: frankdewit at home.nl (Frank de Wit) Date: Mon Oct 4 12:04:52 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material In-Reply-To: <000701c4aa3e$83294230$44af61cc@M1Garand> References: <000701c4aa3e$83294230$44af61cc@M1Garand> Message-ID: <41619ECD.5030909@home.nl> hi Dan I read two things in your email I had to react on; the first thing about copyright (the 2nd in the PS2 ) Copyright; well.... I have had my part of that discussion here; I don't want that discussion in my life a second time ;-) But my opinion to copyright is the following, please don't shoot me, flame me or send me hate mails It is my opinion... please treat my opinion as something valuable and just ignore me :-) -All information should be free, freely available on the internet... it's a kind of rebel thing perhaps, well I'm still young -When I write an article or a book (in progress) I do that because I want to share some knowledge and information with the world Once I shared it, I will only be happy if people copy it, xerox it in black and white, or as in these new days, scan it to pdf and put it on the internet for everyone to download Because with every copy I get more readers... and more readers is more fun to me simple isn't it? and yeah, I probably also drove 10.000 of km's to go places I desbribe in my book. So what? I had fun doing it, didn't I ? o yeah, and if someone copies/scans/xeroxes a book 200 pages thick, instead of just buying it, just think what I think --'He must have more spare time than braincells...'-- because standing behind a xerox machine is very boring and time consuming... I do however like when people mention that I wrote something... put some reference in the material, or put a link there where they can buy it And if someone asks to use my information, well that's always nice. I happened to me twice last week when someone wanted to use pictures from my site; it's always nice when they ask! And if they don't, well I hope they're punished after death and be reincarnated as an American (joke ;-) We live in a new era where lot's of old laws are no longe valuable and should be changed to fit the new era Copyright is one of them. In the current format, copyright is dead. If you don't believe it, just wait and see It was already dead when Xerox made the first copier; it is for sure dead now with more and more information becoming 'fluid' and digital People: please buy his book: http://www.amateurgeologist.com/shop/states_newjersey.html , It's on sale for USD 6,98 ! Hojje! Frank www.strahlen.org (you know, the site with some pdf's on it ;-) PS1 lawyers don't solve anything, they only make more problems and they are shitty expensive... There is a mineralogy book in the UK with my pictures in it... and they did not pay me, well shit happens PS2 join or donate to the NRA today is below your email... well, I personally hate weapons, and I don't like people having them.. I'm Dutch, please forgive me Dan Z wrote: >Today I found that someone had posted forty pages of our book, Rockhounding >in Eastern New York and Nearby New England, to an MSN Groups web site. When >I emailed the owner, requesting he remove the material, he got mad at me! > >This is the second email I sent him after his angry first response: > >"Eric, we spent thousands of hours and drove thousands of miles to develop >that book. We did so because good site information is so hard to find for >this area. We make VERY little on the book after printing costs, preferring >to help the hobbyist rather than try to gouge them. In fact, the book is >selling for only a couple of dollars more now than it did when we first >started it in 1990, despite the increases in paper and printing costs. > >"However it greatly upsets us to find that someone would rather steal the >data than invest less than $10. Finding just one decent piece at any one of >the sites would be worth more than that! If future editions of this book, >are ever to be produced, hobbyists must support it. You might add a notice >to your web site that posting of copyrighted materials will not be >tolerated. To further this end, I have uploaded a picture than can be placed >as number one on the maps section to: http://www.manyfacets.com/nocopy.jpg . >Feel free to use it - no copyright on it ." > >Where do people get this attitude? How can someone get mad at me because >illegal stolen material of mine is being used on his web site? I'm afraid I >just don't understand.... > >Time to retire, maybe. > >-dan z- >- - >Protect your civil rights! >Let the politicians know how you feel. >Join or donate to the NRA today! >http://membership.nrahq.org/default.asp?campaignid=XR014887 > > > From rik.dillen at skynet.be Mon Oct 4 13:51:29 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Mon Oct 4 13:51:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material In-Reply-To: <000701c4aa3e$83294230$44af61cc@M1Garand> Message-ID: <000001c4aa53$ef82f100$46d9c850@maxdata> Hi Gary, Copyright issues are quite straightforward and relatively simple : what you made is yours, regardless of any registration, labeling, statements or logos provided, and nobody else has the right to copy it for third parties unless you give an explicit permission to do so. Copyright is completely automatic, and no action whatsoever is necessary from the author to protect his work. On the other hand the author can refrain from his rights by indicating (e.g. on his website) that the material published may be copied under all or certain circumstances. The rules are clearly stipulated in the "Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works", lastly amended on September 28, 1979. You can find the complete text (English version) e.g. on http://www.wipo.int/clea/docs/en/wo/wo001en.htm This convention has been translated and incorporated in the legislation of nearly 200 countries. Exceptions are e.g. North Korea and Guinea ; they copied e.g. illegally a photo (made by Piet Stemvers, The Netherlands) of one of the specimens (still) in my collection - see full story (that I should update with the more recent Guinean stamp issue) on http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen/stamp.htm In this case I'm rather proud that they both found this own find nice enough to figure on their stamps, and if they would have requested permission I would certainly have given it (and Piet Stemvers as well !). But they just didn't. They interpreted probably the term "copyright" as "the right to copy anything from anyone"... Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Dan Z *Sent: maandag 4 oktober 2004 20:18 *To: Rockhound list danielz frm *Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material * * *Today I found that someone had posted forty pages of our book, *Rockhounding in Eastern New York and Nearby New England, to an *MSN Groups web site. When I emailed the owner, requesting he *remove the material, he got mad at me! * *This is the second email I sent him after his angry first response: * *"Eric, we spent thousands of hours and drove thousands of *miles to develop that book. We did so because good site *information is so hard to find for this area. We make VERY *little on the book after printing costs, preferring to help *the hobbyist rather than try to gouge them. In fact, the book *is selling for only a couple of dollars more now than it did *when we first started it in 1990, despite the increases in *paper and printing costs. * *"However it greatly upsets us to find that someone would *rather steal the data than invest less than $10. Finding just *one decent piece at any one of the sites would be worth more *than that! If future editions of this book, are ever to be *produced, hobbyists must support it. You might add a notice to *your web site that posting of copyrighted materials will not *be tolerated. To further this end, I have uploaded a picture *than can be placed as number one on the maps section to: *http://www.manyfacets.com/nocopy.jpg . Feel free to use it *- *no copyright on it ." * *Where do people get this attitude? How can someone get mad at *me because illegal stolen material of mine is being used on *his web site? I'm afraid I just don't understand.... * *Time to retire, maybe. * *-dan z- * * * *- - *Protect your civil rights! *Let the politicians know how you feel. *Join or donate to the NRA today! *http://membership.nrahq.org/default.asp?*campaignid=XR014887 * * *_______________________________________________ *Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List *WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds *Subscription Services: *http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds * From libawc at emory.edu Mon Oct 4 13:52:39 2004 From: libawc at emory.edu (Anita Westlake) Date: Mon Oct 4 13:52:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material In-Reply-To: <41619ECD.5030909@home.nl> Message-ID: <007001c4aa54$1773b410$bcbd8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> I work in a major University Library, and I can assure you that copyrighted material is not "dead". We have long, boring discussions about this very subject frequently. (Well, some do. I just nap). If someone downloads your work for their own personal use (up to a maximum number of pages...don't ask) then it's considered "fair use". If they download your work to republish in any format for personal gain, that's copyright infringement. Do you know what twists my catalog cards? When someone asks to reprint an article of mine and I say "Yes, with pleasure. Please send me a copy of the newsletter it appears in." I never get a copy. Never. Now getting back to my nap, Anita -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Frank de Wit Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 3:05 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material hi Dan I read two things in your email I had to react on; the first thing about copyright (the 2nd in the PS2 ) Copyright; well.... I have had my part of that discussion here; I don't want that discussion in my life a second time ;-) But my opinion to copyright is the following, please don't shoot me, flame me or send me hate mails It is my opinion... please treat my opinion as something valuable and just ignore me :-) -All information should be free, freely available on the internet... it's a kind of rebel thing perhaps, well I'm still young -When I write an article or a book (in progress) I do that because I want to share some knowledge and information with the world Once I shared it, I will only be happy if people copy it, xerox it in black and white, or as in these new days, scan it to pdf and put it on the internet for everyone to download Because with every copy I get more readers... and more readers is more fun to me simple isn't it? and yeah, I probably also drove 10.000 of km's to go places I desbribe in my book. So what? I had fun doing it, didn't I ? o yeah, and if someone copies/scans/xeroxes a book 200 pages thick, instead of just buying it, just think what I think --'He must have more spare time than braincells...'-- because standing behind a xerox machine is very boring and time consuming... I do however like when people mention that I wrote something... put some reference in the material, or put a link there where they can buy it And if someone asks to use my information, well that's always nice. I happened to me twice last week when someone wanted to use pictures from my site; it's always nice when they ask! And if they don't, well I hope they're punished after death and be reincarnated as an American (joke ;-) We live in a new era where lot's of old laws are no longe valuable and should be changed to fit the new era Copyright is one of them. In the current format, copyright is dead. If you don't believe it, just wait and see It was already dead when Xerox made the first copier; it is for sure dead now with more and more information becoming 'fluid' and digital People: please buy his book: http://www.amateurgeologist.com/shop/states_newjersey.html , It's on sale for USD 6,98 ! Hojje! Frank www.strahlen.org (you know, the site with some pdf's on it ;-) PS1 lawyers don't solve anything, they only make more problems and they are shitty expensive... There is a mineralogy book in the UK with my pictures in it... and they did not pay me, well shit happens PS2 join or donate to the NRA today is below your email... well, I personally hate weapons, and I don't like people having them.. I'm Dutch, please forgive me Dan Z wrote: >Today I found that someone had posted forty pages of our book, Rockhounding >in Eastern New York and Nearby New England, to an MSN Groups web site. When >I emailed the owner, requesting he remove the material, he got mad at me! > >This is the second email I sent him after his angry first response: > >"Eric, we spent thousands of hours and drove thousands of miles to develop >that book. We did so because good site information is so hard to find for >this area. We make VERY little on the book after printing costs, preferring >to help the hobbyist rather than try to gouge them. In fact, the book is >selling for only a couple of dollars more now than it did when we first >started it in 1990, despite the increases in paper and printing costs. > >"However it greatly upsets us to find that someone would rather steal the >data than invest less than $10. Finding just one decent piece at any one of >the sites would be worth more than that! If future editions of this book, >are ever to be produced, hobbyists must support it. You might add a notice >to your web site that posting of copyrighted materials will not be >tolerated. To further this end, I have uploaded a picture than can be placed >as number one on the maps section to: http://www.manyfacets.com/nocopy.jpg . >Feel free to use it - no copyright on it ." > >Where do people get this attitude? How can someone get mad at me because >illegal stolen material of mine is being used on his web site? I'm afraid I >just don't understand.... > >Time to retire, maybe. > >-dan z- >- - >Protect your civil rights! >Let the politicians know how you feel. >Join or donate to the NRA today! >http://membership.nrahq.org/default.asp?campaignid=XR014887 > > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rik.dillen at skynet.be Mon Oct 4 14:32:03 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Mon Oct 4 14:32:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material In-Reply-To: <007001c4aa54$1773b410$bcbd8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> Message-ID: <000001c4aa59$9a987330$20bb88d9@maxdata> *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of *Anita Westlake *Sent: maandag 4 oktober 2004 22:53 *To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem *collectors' *Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material * >>>>> snip >>>> *Do you know what twists my catalog cards? When someone asks to reprint an article of mine and I say "Yes, with pleasure. *Please send me a copy of the newsletter it appears in." I never get a copy. Never. >>>>> Well, as the editor of a mineralogical magazine in Dutch "Geonieuws" I always ask permission of the author before copying whatever. The last 10 years I had only one author who asked me to pay 25 USD per photo, in all other cases I got the permission without any hesitation or conditions. In many cases the author even proposed me to send a higher resolution photo, or more extra data than I originally wanted. I always mention the source, and I always mention the author(s) in an acknowledgement. That's just a question of fair play and politeness. And... yes, I *ALWAYS* send the author a copy after publication (or even more than one, if he requests it). I think that also is just a question of politeness and courtesy. That costs me only some stamps and a tiny little bit of effort each time. I'm sorry to hear that you had other experiences with editors. Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ From kahako at aloha.net Mon Oct 4 15:17:33 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Oct 4 14:49:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] chemistry projects for kids Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041004121145.03c41630@mail.aloha.net> I was looking for ways to make natural homemade paints and dyes and found the following site (didn't find paints though). Since some of us are teachers, or married to teachers, I thought it might be useful. Those who have children might find ways to get kids interested in science (not just chemistry). Some of the projects are actually ones that were asked about on this list a while ago, like how to make a "working" model of a volcano, and how to grow a charcoal crystal garden. Other topics include growing crystals of various types (including "rock candy" and "magic rocks"), how to make a lava lamp or a snow globe. Lots of fun stuff: http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistryhowtoguide/ Aloha, Kitty From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Mon Oct 4 14:54:18 2004 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Mon Oct 4 14:54:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material In-Reply-To: <007001c4aa54$1773b410$bcbd8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> Message-ID: First of all I think copyright is a good thing, but it is, or will very soon be, a law that is impossible to enforce. On the other hand I think any writer should be realistic and know in advance that his work will be copied. Usually it is sheer economics. The huge problem worldwide of illegal music CD's is first of all to blame on the high prices in the shop versus the low production costs (the artist also gets a tiny fraction of the price). So in my opinion this illegal copying should encourage writers and publishers to make better products. You do not xerox an affordable book full of great color pictures! I also think that if we destroy all copying devices tomorrow, that writers will not sell that many more books. Generally people copying books or music CDs are not willing to pay the full amount of money. I never saw anyone reading a xeroxed Oliver Twist..... An example is my website about Russian mineralogy (http://maurice.strahlen.org). I deliberately chose for a free website format. I'm much more flexible when new data emerges. If a new Kola mineral is discovered, which happens quite often, I can ajust my website. Anyone can freely print out my website, make a book out of it and make big money :-) Actually I got one complaint once that my website was not printer friendly :-)) Bad luck, because when you finished printing I added newer info to my site and your prints are outdated within a week. So although free, my original version has a valuable extra over a copy, discouraging copying. Again I think copyright is a good thing, but not very practical. Maybe more important than the economical damage is the courtesy to give credits and ask for permissions. I found out that most people are glad to share pictures or maps for my website when asked. Today I even got a request from someone asking if I could make his picture a little bigger :-)) Cheers, Maurice From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Oct 4 14:55:07 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Oct 4 14:55:05 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material In-Reply-To: <000001c4aa59$9a987330$20bb88d9@maxdata> Message-ID: Hi Rik & others >In many cases the author even proposed me to send a higher resolution photo, That would be me, no doubt? (hahaha) >And... yes, I *ALWAYS* send the author a copy after publication (or even more than one, if he requests it). I think that also is just a question of politeness and courtesy. .......and, only few non-proffessionals know this, required by the copyright laws in Belgium. Maybe not for 1 small B&W pic in a 2000 page book but if you make a substantial graphic contribution to any printwork, the publisher is required to send you one copy at least. Cheers Axel From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Oct 4 14:59:02 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Oct 4 14:58:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material In-Reply-To: <007001c4aa54$1773b410$bcbd8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> Message-ID: Hey Anita >Please send me a copy of the >newsletter it appears in." I never get a copy. Never. I did... still owe you one for that (broad grin....) >Now getting back to my nap, Nightynight Axel From william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu Mon Oct 4 15:13:05 2004 From: william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu (William Cordua) Date: Mon Oct 4 15:13:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dr. Bill -- Rock Star! In-Reply-To: <200410041409.i94E9Bd6029913@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: I have no idea why the local press is so interested in this story. I'm just glad the Enquirer hasn't picked it up yet - with revealing photos. Best wishes - Dr. Bill on 10/4/04 9:14 AM, gary brown at gbrown@xmn.com wrote: > That's right.he's baaaccckkk! > > http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/9828393.htm > > GcB > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Mon Oct 4 15:43:06 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Mon Oct 4 15:38:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dr. Bill -- Rock Star! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200410042238.i94Mc8O7007278@bubbleator.drizzle.com> It's those youthful good looks, that "India Jones" demeanor, and the way those reporters just eat up those two-bit techno-babble words! GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > William Cordua > Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 5:13 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Dr. Bill -- Rock Star! > > I have no idea why the local press is so interested in this > story. I'm just glad the Enquirer hasn't picked it up yet - > with revealing photos. > > Best wishes - Dr. Bill > > > on 10/4/04 9:14 AM, gary brown at gbrown@xmn.com wrote: > > > That's right.he's baaaccckkk! > > > > http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/9828393.htm > > > > GcB From kahako at aloha.net Mon Oct 4 16:07:19 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Oct 4 15:39:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dr. Bill -- Rock Star! In-Reply-To: References: <200410041409.i94E9Bd6029913@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041004130102.03c44870@mail.aloha.net> Reminds me of when my astronomer husband presented a paper indicating the discovery of traces of gold in a star, the newspapers picked up on it with the headline: "Wild Bill Heacox Finds Gold in Them Thar Stars!" There were other papers presented at the same conference that had far greater scientific impact, but the news media were only interested in the catch word: "gold." Congrats anyway, Dr. Bill! You rock'em! Aloha, Kitty At 12:13 PM 10/4/2004, you wrote: >I have no idea why the local press is so interested in this story. I'm just >glad the Enquirer hasn't picked it up yet - with revealing photos. > >Best wishes - Dr. Bill > > >on 10/4/04 9:14 AM, gary brown at gbrown@xmn.com wrote: > > > That's right.he's baaaccckkk! > > > > http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/9828393.htm > > From mela at bartnet.net Mon Oct 4 16:22:10 2004 From: mela at bartnet.net (Mel Albright) Date: Mon Oct 4 16:22:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material References: <000701c4aa3e$83294230$44af61cc@M1Garand> <41619ECD.5030909@home.nl> Message-ID: <003501c4aa68$fd992790$dab2950c@jessie> Frank talked of everything being free. Then there would be no magazines, books, movies, or any other material that takes time and effort to produce. He mentions that he WOULD like credit. I edited a rockclub bulletin for years and I can tell him it will almost NEVER happen. I've even seen my material printed with someone else as the author. Just think - no more Rockhounds e-mail group because everyone is afraid any real info will be stolen. Scares me. I love this bunch. Mel Albright From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Mon Oct 4 16:44:43 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Mon Oct 4 16:44:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material References: <000701c4aa3e$83294230$44af61cc@M1Garand><41619ECD.5030909@home.nl> <003501c4aa68$fd992790$dab2950c@jessie> Message-ID: <005101c4aa6c$2004c570$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Most of my writing for Mineral News is such where if someone reprints the article, that's fine with me! I appreciate the request for permission, but I'm sure many have been lifted. (No proof mind you, but it wouldn't surprise me that some of the 25+ articles over the last 16 years have been reprinted because they are short reports.) I wouldn't want my articles in Mineralogical Record "lifted" w/o permission because they years of research. On the web, copyright is irrelevant - that is the nature of the web. However as Mel points out, the publishing and recording industries make their living doing this with expensive equipment and people. They still need some control over distribution of the final product to pay the cost of creating and distributing. We haven't reached the "Star Trek" years when money is obsolete! Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mel Albright" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material > Frank talked of everything being free. Then there would be no magazines, > books, movies, or any other material that takes time and effort to > produce. > > He mentions that he WOULD like credit. I edited a rockclub bulletin for > years and I can tell him it will almost NEVER happen. I've even seen my > material printed with someone else as the author. > > Just think - no more Rockhounds e-mail group because everyone is afraid > any > real info will be stolen. Scares me. I love this bunch. > > Mel Albright > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Oct 4 19:42:42 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Oct 4 19:42:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material References: <000701c4aa3e$83294230$44af61cc@M1Garand> Message-ID: <416209FE.4435@Tomaszewski.net> Dan Z wrote: > > Today I found that someone had posted forty pages of our book, Rockhounding > in Eastern New York and Nearby New England, to an MSN Groups web site. When > I emailed the owner, requesting he remove the material, he got mad at me! > > This is the second email I sent him after his angry first response: Time to work upline and protect your copyright. Contact the group administrator. If that doesn't work, go after the domain admin hosting the group and the netblock owner. Its discouraging, but if copyright is to be maintained it must be protected. Kreigh From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Oct 4 19:53:36 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Oct 4 19:53:05 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material References: <000701c4aa3e$83294230$44af61cc@M1Garand> <41619ECD.5030909@home.nl> Message-ID: <41620C8B.5C40@Tomaszewski.net> Posting information to the Internet is the same a publishing in a paper format and copyright law applies. If I post something you have 'free' access to it, and may reference it by as many links as you would like (and you don't have to ask). But if you copy it to another website (beyond fair use) without my permission you have violated my copyright. The 'Web' IS about sharing, and it is much more open than books or libraries. However, there are still rules and guidelines that need to be followed or it doesn't work. Kreigh Frank de Wit wrote: > > hi Dan > I read two things in your email I had to react on; the first thing about > copyright (the 2nd in the PS2 ) > > Copyright; well.... I have had my part of that discussion here; I don't > want that discussion in my life a second time ;-) > But my opinion to copyright is the following, please don't shoot me, > flame me or send me hate mails > It is my opinion... please treat my opinion as something valuable and > just ignore me :-) > > -All information should be free, freely available on the internet... > it's a kind of rebel thing perhaps, well I'm still young > -When I write an article or a book (in progress) I do that because I > want to share some knowledge and information with the world > Once I shared it, I will only be happy if people copy it, xerox it in > black and white, or as in these new days, scan it to pdf and put it on > the internet for everyone to download > Because with every copy I get more readers... and more readers is more > fun to me > simple isn't it? > and yeah, I probably also drove 10.000 of km's to go places I desbribe > in my book. So what? I had fun doing it, didn't I ? > o yeah, and if someone copies/scans/xeroxes a book 200 pages thick, > instead of just buying it, just think what I think > --'He must have more spare time than braincells...'-- because standing > behind a xerox machine is very boring and time consuming... > > I do however like when people mention that I wrote something... put some > reference in the material, or put a link there where they can buy it > And if someone asks to use my information, well that's always nice. > I happened to me twice last week when someone wanted to use pictures > from my site; it's always nice when they ask! > And if they don't, well I hope they're punished after death and be > reincarnated as an American (joke ;-) > We live in a new era where lot's of old laws are no longe valuable and > should be changed to fit the new era > Copyright is one of them. In the current format, copyright is dead. If > you don't believe it, just wait and see > It was already dead when Xerox made the first copier; it is for sure > dead now with more and more information becoming 'fluid' and digital > > People: please buy his book: > http://www.amateurgeologist.com/shop/states_newjersey.html , It's on > sale for USD 6,98 ! > > Hojje! Frank > www.strahlen.org > (you know, the site with some pdf's on it ;-) > > PS1 lawyers don't solve anything, they only make more problems and they > are shitty expensive... > There is a mineralogy book in the UK with my pictures in it... and > they did not pay me, well shit happens > PS2 join or donate to the NRA today is below your email... well, I > personally hate weapons, and I don't like people having them.. > I'm Dutch, please forgive me > > Dan Z wrote: > > >Today I found that someone had posted forty pages of our book, Rockhounding > >in Eastern New York and Nearby New England, to an MSN Groups web site. When > >I emailed the owner, requesting he remove the material, he got mad at me! > > > >This is the second email I sent him after his angry first response: > > > >"Eric, we spent thousands of hours and drove thousands of miles to develop > >that book. We did so because good site information is so hard to find for > >this area. We make VERY little on the book after printing costs, preferring > >to help the hobbyist rather than try to gouge them. In fact, the book is > >selling for only a couple of dollars more now than it did when we first > >started it in 1990, despite the increases in paper and printing costs. > > > >"However it greatly upsets us to find that someone would rather steal the > >data than invest less than $10. Finding just one decent piece at any one of > >the sites would be worth more than that! If future editions of this book, > >are ever to be produced, hobbyists must support it. You might add a notice > >to your web site that posting of copyrighted materials will not be > >tolerated. To further this end, I have uploaded a picture than can be placed > >as number one on the maps section to: http://www.manyfacets.com/nocopy.jpg . > >Feel free to use it - no copyright on it ." > > > >Where do people get this attitude? How can someone get mad at me because > >illegal stolen material of mine is being used on his web site? I'm afraid I > >just don't understand.... > > > >Time to retire, maybe. > > > >-dan z- > >- - > >Protect your civil rights! > >Let the politicians know how you feel. > >Join or donate to the NRA today! > >http://membership.nrahq.org/default.asp?campaignid=XR014887 > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From frankdewit at home.nl Mon Oct 4 23:09:51 2004 From: frankdewit at home.nl (Frank de Wit) Date: Mon Oct 4 23:09:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material In-Reply-To: <003501c4aa68$fd992790$dab2950c@jessie> References: <000701c4aa3e$83294230$44af61cc@M1Garand> <41619ECD.5030909@home.nl> <003501c4aa68$fd992790$dab2950c@jessie> Message-ID: <41623AAF.8010500@home.nl> Hi Mel, that's not true, and I am glad it is not true I am subscribed to almost 10 magazines in full color I like magazines much more in my hand, reading it without my laptop I like the Bocamina much more in paper, so I buy the Bocamina Le Regne Mineraux also, beautiful glossy paper in full color, I am subscribed to that magazine also But... You can download Bocamina freely from the internet, from the Bocamina site itself those people understand how the world works these days... Schweizer Strahler also has plans to put their (older) magazines in pdf online And there are of course always older publishers that don't understand the new world...well, they will go bankrupt yep So... A magazine can exist with no problem if... if it's a good magazine with good mineral photographs etc and for books... everyone copying a book is a fool books should be bought and put in a nice shelf with other mineral books see: http://www.strahlen.org/books/ ;-) Hojje! Frank ps if you are always afraid of things that might happend, you will never do something new of scary... Mel Albright wrote: >Frank talked of everything being free. Then there would be no magazines, >books, movies, or any other material that takes time and effort to produce. > >He mentions that he WOULD like credit. I edited a rockclub bulletin for >years and I can tell him it will almost NEVER happen. I've even seen my >material printed with someone else as the author. > >Just think - no more Rockhounds e-mail group because everyone is afraid any >real info will be stolen. Scares me. I love this bunch. > >Mel Albright > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From curiogeo7 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 4 23:48:27 2004 From: curiogeo7 at yahoo.com (George Hall) Date: Mon Oct 4 23:48:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material In-Reply-To: <41623AAF.8010500@home.nl> Message-ID: <20041005064827.42044.qmail@web50504.mail.yahoo.com> Hi I never post here but read it,as frank says this is the way of the world now,Its ok to lie,cheet steal,as long as you dont get caught,oh and have no personel pride or respect(ask a ex president,or 2),so what do you do? keep on collecting,digging, and exploreing. Who really cares what the lazy,and crooked do? Best to all --- Frank de Wit wrote: > Hi Mel, > that's not true, and I am glad it is not true > I am subscribed to almost 10 magazines > in full color I like magazines much more in my hand, > reading it without > my laptop > > I like the Bocamina much more in paper, so I buy the > Bocamina > Le Regne Mineraux also, beautiful glossy paper in > full color, I am > subscribed to that magazine also > But... > You can download Bocamina freely from the internet, > from the Bocamina > site itself > those people understand how the world works these > days... > Schweizer Strahler also has plans to put their > (older) magazines in pdf > online > And there are of course always older publishers that > don't understand > the new world...well, they will go bankrupt yep > > So... A magazine can exist with no problem > if... if it's a good magazine with good mineral > photographs etc > > and for books... everyone copying a book is a fool > books should be bought and put in a nice shelf with > other mineral books > see: http://www.strahlen.org/books/ ;-) > > Hojje! Frank > > ps if you are always afraid of things that might > happend, you will never > do something new of scary... > > > Mel Albright wrote: > > >Frank talked of everything being free. Then there > would be no magazines, > >books, movies, or any other material that takes > time and effort to produce. > > > >He mentions that he WOULD like credit. I edited a > rockclub bulletin for > >years and I can tell him it will almost NEVER > happen. I've even seen my > >material printed with someone else as the author. > > > >Just think - no more Rockhounds e-mail group > because everyone is afraid any > >real info will be stolen. Scares me. I love this > bunch. > > > >Mel Albright > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Oct 5 04:08:41 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Oct 5 04:09:05 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material In-Reply-To: <41619ECD.5030909@home.nl> Message-ID: >Copyright; well.... I have had my part of that discussion here; I don't >want that discussion in my life a second time ;-) >But my opinion to copyright is the following, please don't shoot me, >flame me or send me hate mails >It is my opinion... please treat my opinion as something valuable and >just ignore me :-) Then don't go saying things that border on the immoral and are in clear contradiction with the law... AGAIN >-All information should be free, freely available on the internet... >it's a kind of rebel thing perhaps, well I'm still young You are old enough to fly (at least: anyone visiting your site is confronted with that and other signs of wealth that you flaunt on it)so you must be old enough to be responsible for what you say. Don't hide. If you ONLY SAY that "all information should be free", you 're a rebel, yes. If you steal the intellectual property of any author, on the other hand, you are a thief. Not a rebel. A bit of a silly attitude perhaps, that "rebel concept" and only valid to yourself since you clearly choose to copy rather than create. You copy every document you can lay your hands on to put it on your site. Hence the discussion you already had and did not want in your life a second time. You have been confronted with angry authors before. You should not give people on this list the impression that you were victimized while you were in fact the perpetrator. I find it disturbing that you still choose to spread these counterproductive thoughts... Every single photo or article comes from an author who spent time and effort creating them. Denying an author the right to possess the intellectual property of his own work is either a very opportunistic form of twisted communism or a way to get noticed without being noticeable... I think many people on the Internet steal copy to "piggyback-ride" into the realm of the "Interesting Few". Usually the site they present is not about the topic they claim it covers but about themselves... They want to be seen, that's all. Cheers Axel From frankdewit at home.nl Tue Oct 5 05:35:53 2004 From: frankdewit at home.nl (frankdewit@home.nl) Date: Tue Oct 5 05:36:15 2004 Subject: Antw: RE: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material Message-ID: <200410051236.i95CZsdE007337@bubbleator.drizzle.com> oh axel, you did not understand me the last time i did not expect that you understood me this time i was not waiting for that also, i just wanted to give my view am i not entitled to do that? so please treat me with respect and don't personally attack me on a public list you could also have sent me a private email... so please ignore me and i will ignore you, as i did the last year i don't hide, i could have ignored the first email but no, i chose to respond and give my opinion on copyright for i like my opinion, it's not contraproductive at all (that's your opinion) i am not victimized at all, i like what i do and i do create a lot, i spend hours per day on the site and write articles; and i don't care if the whole world copies it my site gets visited by you and sometimes 500 others on a daily basis; so my site serves people and gives fun; it serves you too... it gives me fun also, and lots of nice contacts around the world the only negative responses come from you and very few others (i can count them on one hand... and all are some belgians) well enjoy yourselves please, me and my close friends enjoy laughing about it; i rather have them around me than 'others' (yeah, we are all thiefs, crooks and lowlife, satisfied now?) my opinion did not change because you and some other belgians disagreed with me, no, it strengthened my opinion more people agreed with me than disagreed... that makes me do what i do. o axel, if you never copied a cdrom or music-tape or copied an article please throw the first stone... and before you reply again, please read my first email again and try to write down questions instead of accusations for once please, i know it's difficult but just try it, it's fun ! > > Van: "Axel Emmermann" > Aan: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Datum: di 5 okt 04, 13:08 > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material > > >Copyright; well.... I have had my part of that discussion here; I don't > >want that discussion in my life a second time ;-) > > >But my opinion to copyright is the following, please don't shoot me, > >flame me or send me hate mails > >It is my opinion... please treat my opinion as something valuable and > >just ignore me :-) > > Then don't go saying things that border on the immoral and are in clear > contradiction with the law... AGAIN > > >-All information should be free, freely available on the internet... > >it's a kind of rebel thing perhaps, well I'm still young > > You are old enough to fly (at least: anyone visiting your site is confronted > with that and other signs of wealth that you flaunt on it)so you must be old > enough to be responsible for what you say. Don't hide. > If you ONLY SAY that "all information should be free", you 're a rebel, yes. > If you steal the intellectual property of any author, on the other hand, you > are a thief. Not a rebel. A bit of a silly attitude perhaps, that "rebel > concept" and only valid to yourself since you clearly choose to copy rather > than create. You copy every document you can lay your hands on to put it on > your site. Hence the discussion you already had and did not want in your > life a second time. You have been confronted with angry authors before. You > should not give people on this list the impression that you were victimized > while you were in fact the perpetrator. I find it disturbing that you still > choose to spread these counterproductive thoughts... > > Every single photo or article comes from an author who spent time and effort > creating them. Denying an author the right to possess the intellectual > property of his own work is either a very opportunistic form of twisted > communism or a way to get noticed without being noticeable... > I think many people on the Internet steal copy to "piggyback-ride" into the > realm of the "Interesting Few". Usually the site they present is not about > the topic they claim it covers but about themselves... They want to be seen, > that's all. > > Cheers > > Axel > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From CECorrigan at aol.com Tue Oct 5 06:45:08 2004 From: CECorrigan at aol.com (CECorrigan@aol.com) Date: Tue Oct 5 06:45:41 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] crystals for kids, please Message-ID: Hi Kitty..I can send you the kids some chrystals....Email mail me back and we shall talk about it..Have a great day..Christopher --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Oct 5 08:48:20 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Oct 5 08:48:38 2004 Subject: Antw: RE: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted...last flare-up In-Reply-To: <200410051236.i95CZsdE007337@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: Frank wrote: >o axel, if you never copied a cdrom or music-tape or copied an article please throw the first stone... Sure I did copy some music... no entire LP's or CD's but that is why Philips invented and commercialized the cassette recorder. Everybody does it and in Belgium you can even buy media (cassettes, CDs, etc) that have a copyright conribution included in the price. Now this same company, Philips which is also a major record producer, makes CD-RW, DVD-RW... You can reord music or video for your pleasure with it. Legally that's OK or at worst a "grey area". Copying a text for study purposes or research is OK too, nobody will arrest you for making copying a few pages of a book or magazine in the library. Using a CD-RW to massively copy CD-albums or DVD+RW to make pirate copies of movies is a criminal act. Being a rebel does not give one the right to ignore other peoples rights... It is your idea that anybody should freely be allowed to republish written text or photos that I find repugnant. There is a difference between use of copyrighted material and unlawful distribution of it. Placing copyrighted text or pictures on a website without prior written permission falls under the latter. Now the word rebel can be interpreted as "someone who fights injustice". Is it "injust" that the work of authors is protected by law? I hardly think so. Not as long as there are people around that have no respect for the creativity of others. If you don't fight injustice, then what exactly are you fighting... the law? Do you find it irritating? Are you frustrated because it limits your freedom? Hm, then you're no rebel my friend but an outlaw. To some that word may have a romantic ring to it, but I have not yet heard of an outlaw from whom society benefited. I don't think that anything that anybody can say will change your mind. Nor do I believe that the list wants to hear us argue unless one of us brings some new arguments into the discussion. I will therefore step back from his discussion. Cheers Axel From kadok at infowest.com Tue Oct 5 09:02:35 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Tue Oct 5 09:03:06 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material In-Reply-To: <200410041841.i94Ifksu027984@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20041005160243.24E63EAFE9C@delivery.infowest.com> Dan, if you have a copyright in the book you can nail him for infringement. If you want to get nasty, you could probably find a lawyer that would work on contingency. GcB Right on! Don't let the SOB get away with it! Margaret > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Dan Z > Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 1:18 PM > To: Rockhound list danielz frm > Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material > > Today I found that someone had posted forty pages of our > book, Rockhounding in Eastern New York and Nearby New > England, to an MSN Groups web site. When I emailed the owner, > requesting he remove the material, he got mad at me!..... _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From afox at drizzle.com Tue Oct 5 09:21:50 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Tue Oct 5 09:22:22 2004 Subject: Antw: RE: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted...last flare-up In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I should know better than to get involved in this, but.... Speaking from a United States perspective: 1) Children and young adults are brought up with the idea that it's okay to infringe upon copyrights for a number of trivial reasons, including: * I can't afford it anyway, so the copyright holder isn't missing out on revenue * The copyright holder is some big, bad, evil corporation who won't know the difference * The copyright holder is an effective monopoly guilty of price fixing (anyone priced CDs lately?); by indulging in copyright infringement * Lack of responsibility. IMHO, there is a general lack of personal resposibility and a sense of community among most people today. It's all about 'me'; little thought is given to other people. It's become ingrained in American culture. The idea is that someone else has rights is fine, so long as it doesn't inconvenience me. Utter bullshit. I'm not sure how this trend got started, but it needs to end! 2) Publishers and corporations: In a purely capitalistic market-driven system, maximizing the lifetime of copyrights maximizes profit at the expense of the general good. Most people, as well as most companies, in the United States (one could argue around the world, too), operate like this, rather than seeking a ballance between personal profit and global good. One of the evils of capitalism, I guess. 3) Our politicians are compounding the problem by extending terms of copyright indefinately (the whole Sonny Bono copyright extension rammed through by Disney). The whole idea behind copyright was that it was an exclusive monopoly, granted by a government, to encourage innovation by guaranteeing inventors / authors/ artists / etc. income from their creations for a set period of time. Then, after a reasonable time, the content enters the public domain for the betterment of all mankind and the advancement of knowledge. However, this system has been corrupted by greed and the general state of decay in American politics. Copyright is now (I think) 50 years after the death of the original author, with the big media congolmerates pushing for even longer copyright tunes. Plus, companies in general are ignoring fair use doctrine in a number of cases, because they know it's easy to beat someone into submission using the threat of hefty legal fees. Lawyers BAD! 4) The Internet. The Internet throws a huge monkey wrench in quite a few established business models: * Scientific Publishing: Why pay Elsevier enormous amounts of money to get published in refereed journals, only to lose * Music / Movies: Why should I pay $18, most of which goes to a multinational corporation, when I could just buy directly from the author? The big media corps are frightened by this; they see their coming obselesence. So, they do what any animal does when threatened; they attempt to eliminate the threat. * Ease of infringement. The relatively anonymous nature of the Internet makes it easy to pass someone else's work off as your own. And, with the global nature of the Internet, it makes prosecuting or stopping infringment difficult (which laws are valid) How do we change things? Damned if I know; I know, however, that the following needs to happen: 1) Right of Fair Use: This needs to be enforced by the courts, otherwise the media conglomerates, in collusion with our 'elected representatives', will stamp out the whole concept. 2) Reasonable Copyright Terms: We need to strike down the Sonny Bono Act, and go back to more reasonable terms of copyright. Death plus 50 years is way too long, IMHO. 3) Educate the children! Frankly, most parents I see do a crappy job of raising their kids. They turn them over to schools, expecting them to not only learn facts but moral and social ethics, in a system not designed to do that nor able to support the loads they are taking. Parents need to lay down the laws early regarding respecting copyright and intellectual property on the Internet. Downloading video games or music just because you can't afford them is not acceptable, IMHO. 4) Educate adults on the limits of fair use. I think most folks don't have a good idea what the doctrine of fair-use allows and prohibits. I think most people would be willing to honor it, if they knew what it was about. Maybe, when I get out from under the mountain of work I've got, I'll go back to my old mass media law textbooks and draft something. A quick and dirty guide that you can forward to all your friends and to suspected infringers, to educate them on the laws... 5) Republishing: If you maintain a website or actively maintain a blog, you should consider yourself a media publication, bound by the laws and ethics of copyright law. Consent should always be required for publication of material outside of the ruberic of fair-use. And be ready to defend your copyrights; if you don't nobody will. I would encourage all web authors to draft a 'use statement', that describes a) your copyright on the materials, and b) your terms for usage of material outside the doctrine of fair-use. Having this policy posted on your website should make prosecuting infringement easier, and also enlighten visitors as to what is appropriate. As for those rebelling against 'the system'; I think you're misguided. Throw that energy into social change. If you don't like how much CDs or video games cost, join a boycott. Lobby your Congresscritter to change the durations of copyright. Do something! Sorry, enough rambling, back to work. > Frank wrote: > > >o axel, if you never copied a cdrom or music-tape or copied an article > please throw the first stone... > > Sure I did copy some music... no entire LP's or CD's but that is why Philips > invented and commercialized the cassette recorder. Everybody does it and in > Belgium you can even buy media (cassettes, CDs, etc) that have a copyright > conribution included in the price. > Now this same company, Philips which is also a major record producer, makes > CD-RW, DVD-RW... You can reord music or video for your pleasure with it. > Legally that's OK or at worst a "grey area". Copying a text for study > purposes or research is OK too, nobody will arrest you for making copying a > few pages of a book or magazine in the library. > Using a CD-RW to massively copy CD-albums or DVD+RW to make pirate copies of > movies is a criminal act. > > Being a rebel does not give one the right to ignore other peoples rights... > It is your idea that anybody should freely be allowed to republish written > text or photos that I find repugnant. > There is a difference between use of copyrighted material and unlawful > distribution of it. Placing copyrighted text or pictures on a website > without prior written permission falls under the latter. > > Now the word rebel can be interpreted as "someone who fights injustice". Is > it "injust" that the work of authors is protected by law? I hardly think so. > Not as long as there are people around that have no respect for the > creativity of others. > If you don't fight injustice, then what exactly are you fighting... the law? > Do you find it irritating? Are you frustrated because it limits your > freedom? Hm, then you're no rebel my friend but an outlaw. To some that word > may have a romantic ring to it, but I have not yet heard of an outlaw from > whom society benefited. > > I don't think that anything that anybody can say will change your mind. Nor > do I believe that the list wants to hear us argue unless one of us brings > some new arguments into the discussion. I will therefore step back from his > discussion. > > Cheers > > Axel > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From DicksWi at northville.k12.mi.us Tue Oct 5 09:26:33 2004 From: DicksWi at northville.k12.mi.us (William Dicks) Date: Tue Oct 5 09:27:31 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material Message-ID: My "delete finger" is forming a blister!! As a kind reminder....below is what was included in my "Welcome to Rockhounds" e-mail. Why join Rockhounds? * Care and Feeding of minerals, rocks, and fossils * Mineral ID (for that troublesome specimen) * Great Conversation! * New Collecting Sites! * Faceting, Cabbing, and other Lapidary Tips! * Auctions and Dealers! * Hang with other rockhounds! .......... * Off-Topic Threads and Flame Wars: Once these get out of hand, I will ask twice (2 times) for the participants to either take the discussion off-list or to stop. After that, I reserve the right to filter out that subject/thread or to bounce unruly participants as needed. .... We have lost many members who were expecting the list to be as described. Lets not lose any more. ________________________ >>> kadok@infowest.com 10/05/04 12:02PM >>> Dan, if you have a copyright in the book you can nail him for infringement. If you want to get nasty, you could probably find a lawyer that would work on contingency. GcB Right on! Don't let the SOB get away with it! Margaret > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Dan Z > Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 1:18 PM > To: Rockhound list danielz frm > Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material > > Today I found that someone had posted forty pages of our > book, Rockhounding in Eastern New York and Nearby New > England, to an MSN Groups web site. When I emailed the owner, > requesting he remove the material, he got mad at me!..... _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Docia1154 at aol.com Tue Oct 5 09:33:15 2004 From: Docia1154 at aol.com (Docia1154@aol.com) Date: Tue Oct 5 09:33:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Why Join Rockhounds Message-ID: <9b.4f6677f0.2e9426cb@aol.com> In a message dated 10/5/2004 11:28:05 AM Central Daylight Time, DicksWi@northville.k12.mi.us writes: Why join Rockhounds? * Care and Feeding of minerals, rocks, and fossils * Mineral ID (for that troublesome specimen) * Great Conversation! * New Collecting Sites! * Faceting, Cabbing, and other Lapidary Tips! * Auctions and Dealers! * Hang with other rockhounds! I like this new thread! Docia --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Rocks4u at prodigy.net Tue Oct 5 09:38:37 2004 From: Rocks4u at prodigy.net (Wes Lingerfelt) Date: Tue Oct 5 09:38:34 2004 Subject: Antw: RE: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted...last flare-up References: Message-ID: <00b501c4aaf9$c3c25cd0$8291fea9@WesMedion1918> Aaron, I wasn't aware you are such a heavy thinker! I appreciate your effort to enlighten us - It was very informative. I believe it all boils down to the lack of moral fiber in society today. So much has been lost over the past decades that we will surely find ourselves in the same condition as the Romans were in before their great fall. Not a good prospect! Cheers! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Fox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 9:21 AM Subject: RE: Antw: RE: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted...last flare-up >I should know better than to get involved in this, but.... > > Speaking from a United States perspective: > > 1) Children and young adults are brought up with the idea that it's okay > to infringe upon copyrights for a number of trivial reasons, including: > * I can't afford it anyway, so the copyright holder isn't missing > From hkrocke at sprint.ca Tue Oct 5 09:49:19 2004 From: hkrocke at sprint.ca (HilmarKrocke) Date: Tue Oct 5 09:51:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material In-Reply-To: <41619ECD.5030909@home.nl> Message-ID: 2004.10.04. 12:05 Frank de Wit PS2 join or donate to the NRA today is below your email... well, I personally hate weapons, and I don't like people having them. Hojje! Frank www.strahlen.org _____________________________________________________ Frank, I completely agree with your comments. Especially with your PS2 !!! And there is no place for NRA propaganda on this list. Hilmar --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From danielz at acmenet.net Tue Oct 5 10:07:55 2004 From: danielz at acmenet.net (Dan Z) Date: Tue Oct 5 10:08:19 2004 Subject: Antw: RE: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted...last flare-up References: Message-ID: <000a01c4aafd$dc2d4a60$44af61cc@M1Garand> > 3) Educate the children! Frankly, most parents I see do a crappy job of > raising their kids. They turn them over to schools, expecting them to not > only learn facts but moral and social ethics, in a system not designed to > do that nor able to support the loads they are taking. This whole deal started when I received an email from a woman who told me she had downloaded pages of our book, gone to a couple of the sites with her son, and wanted me to help her identify the things they found! She found us because the pages she printed had our copyright notice on each page. Wonder what her son has learned about copyrights and theft.... BTW, her email signature indicates that either she or her husband is an attorney. Probably couldn't afford to buy the book, in that case.... PS. We have never placed, or allowed to be placed, pages from our book on the internet or anywhere else. We spent 1000's of hours and drove 1000's of miles and walked at least a hundred more to get the information used in that book Then countless more hours in front of a computer drawing maps (MUCH more time consuming than with pencil and paper) and writing up the sites. Then we have to pay a printer for the paper and printing. We end up making very little on the book, certainly much less than we could have made working at minimum wage for those hours. But we feel that the hobby needs such information if it is to survive - if you can't find sites from which to collect, how will you become a collector? So we sell the book cheap. But that does NOT mean that we will allow someone to steal our work and post it on the internet (in this case without any credit or even naming the book the material was stolen from, by the way). If the common attitude is that this behavior is OK, then I doubt that much new information or books on collecting locations will become available. Stealing information is not helping the hobby, it is hurting it. OK, rant off.... -dan z- From frankdewit at home.nl Tue Oct 5 10:18:08 2004 From: frankdewit at home.nl (Frank de Wit) Date: Tue Oct 5 10:18:35 2004 Subject: Antw: RE: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted...last flare-up In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4162D750.9090200@home.nl> axel, you asked a question... wow if people don't want to read this, the last part is the most important... after this answer, let's get back to business, uh sorry minerals I will make a page on the copyright subject on www.strahlen.org so anyone can read what/why I do the things I do... being a rebel does not give one the right to ignore other peoples rights... >> Do I? I don't. If you find it on www.strahlen.org you win the grand price... >> but I do have an strong opinion on copyright that mismatches yours (and others) >> well, see my first email, I did not ask everyone to agree with me, even worse >> everyone has the right to ignore me, just don't email me and don't visit my site... It is your idea that anybody should freely be allowed to republish written text or photos that I find repugnant. >> That is not my idea at all, republishing is something else than emailing someone a pdf... >> or... allowing someone to download articles... (again, books is bad bad bad bad, enough bad?) >> I can also xerox a copy of an article and put in in the post, the same thing... but you can't email paper can't you? >> I never republished material, and I never will, I always put references in all my articles, read my articles and you'll see There is a difference between use of copyrighted material and unlawful distribution of it. Placing copyrighted text or pictures on a website without prior written permission falls under the latter. >> I agree with you and I agreed on that with you earlier, so don't dig up a dead horse >> Again, if you find that material on www.strahlen.org, mailme and I will remove it Now the word rebel can be interpreted as "someone who fights injustice". Is it "injust" that the work of authors is protected by law? I hardly think so. >> I don't think so also... but a lot of people make themselves more important than they really are... >> They have mineralogy as a hobby, just like me, they write an article and put their soul in it, so do I, they publish it, so do I >> and then I live for another 50 years and die.... and what I leave the world is an article hahaha >> I am not important, nor is my internet site, if someone copies it, well have fun with it, it's just a damn hobby... >> if I stop with my site, everyone except family and friends will have forgotten me within weeks, and that's cool with me >> it's only an amateur article, please, it's not a 200-page book... that's totally different >> share the fun, copy articles and distribute them freely... >> books should be bought, not copied Not as long as there are people around that have no respect for the creativity of others. >> I love other people's creativity, that's why I love to redistribute it >> it would be better if every author would just put their articles online themselves, that saves a lot of time If you don't fight injustice, then what exactly are you fighting... the law? >> now you hit the jackpot !!!! >> I'm fighting nothing, I'm helping others by giving them articles and information they usually have no access to... >> people email me (there are now about 150 emails in my inbox), asking for information on localities they want to visit >> if I have that information here, I give it to them, and they are helped, that's the end of it >> I always missed recent information and articles when I wanted to visit a locality, so now I have that knowledge, I share it to help others >> that's all, no more, no less; if you don't like that, well the people I help like it, and that's more important to me >> with the right arguments everyone can change my mind... >> It was a heavy discussion and I made the points (well, some of them) I wanted to make, let's move on to the next subject From lanny at lrream.com Tue Oct 5 11:11:10 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Tue Oct 5 11:10:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material In-Reply-To: <000701c4aa44$b4519500$44af61cc@M1Garand> References: <200410041841.i94Ifksu027984@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <000701c4aa44$b4519500$44af61cc@M1Garand> Message-ID: Hi Dan, Forget the lawsuit, it probably won't do you any good. Copyright lawsuits typically revolve around the loss of income of the copyright holder. Unless your book sales are far and above the typical sales of rockhound books, there isn't enough money involved to interest a lawyer on contingency and if you pursue it at legal cost, most likely it would be many times more than you could recover from the lawsuit. Fortunately the lawmakers and legal system do believe in copyright. Frank may be a "rebel," and think all writings should be free, but that only works in socialism and socialism only works when someone is welling to work for a profit and pay taxes to support the socialism so those who want everything for free can have it. That's great that Frank and others care to spend time obtaining the information, writing it down and making it available for free. However, that is a whole lot different than what those who choose to write and/or publish to make money. As the author and/or publisher of various books and a monthly newsletter on minerals and rockhounding I chose to make money with researching and writing, for me, the copyright law, ethics and morals are important. But like so many others, I also do a lot of writing for free, just don't steal the material I choose not to distribute for free. It makes me unhappy, and fortunately is unethical and illegal. Regards, Lanny On Oct 4, 2004, at 12:02 PM, Dan Z wrote: > Gary, > > When I first contacted him and MSN, all I requested was that the > offending > material be removed. His angry response to me boiled down to that I > shouldn't have complained! When the acceptable response to complaints > of > theft is that you shouldn't complain, then it's time to get out of this > hobby. The wrong people are in it. > > He has removed the material. If I find it there or elsewhere again, a > suit > will certainly be considered. > > -dan z- > > > - - > Protect your civil rights! > Let the politicians know how you feel. > Join or donate to the NRA today! > http://membership.nrahq.org/default.asp?campaignid=XR014887 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gary Brown" > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors'" > > Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 2:46 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material > > >> Dan, if you have a copyright in the book you can nail him for > infringement. >> If you want to get nasty, you could probably find a lawyer that would >> work >> on contingency. >> >> GcB >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >>> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Dan Z >>> Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 1:18 PM >>> To: Rockhound list danielz frm >>> Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material >>> >>> Today I found that someone had posted forty pages of our >>> book, Rockhounding in Eastern New York and Nearby New >>> England, to an MSN Groups web site. When I emailed the owner, >>> requesting he remove the material, he got mad at me!..... >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From danielz at acmenet.net Tue Oct 5 11:41:15 2004 From: danielz at acmenet.net (Dan Z) Date: Tue Oct 5 11:41:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted...last flare-up Message-ID: <000401c4ab0a$e5cdd0f0$44af61cc@M1Garand> This was sent as a reply to Aaron - I didn't realize it wasn't addressed to the list. But I think this is something the list should read.... > 3) Educate the children! Frankly, most parents I see > do a crappy job of raising their kids. They turn them > over to schools, expecting them to not only learn facts > but moral and social ethics, in a system not designed to > do that nor able to support the loads they are taking. This whole deal started when I received an email from a woman who told me she had downloaded pages of our book, gone to a couple of the sites with her son, and wanted me to help her identify the things they found! She found us because the pages she printed had our copyright notice on each page. Wonder what her son has learned about copyrights and theft.... BTW, her email signature indicates that either she or her husband is an attorney. Probably couldn't afford to buy the book, in that case.... We have never placed, or allowed to be placed, pages from our book on the internet or anywhere else. We spent 1000's of hours and drove 1000's of miles and walked at least a hundred more to get the information used in that book Then countless more hours in front of a computer drawing maps (MUCH more time consuming than with pencil and paper) and writing up the sites. Then we have to pay a printer for the paper and printing. We end up making very little on the book, certainly much less than we could have made working at minimum wage for those hours. But we feel that the hobby needs such information if it is to survive - if you can't find sites from which to collect, how will you become a collector? So we sell the book cheap. But that does NOT mean that we will allow someone to steal our work and post it on the internet (in this case without any credit or even naming the book the material was stolen from, by the way. The poster inferred it was his own work). If the common attitude is that this behavior is OK, then I doubt that much new information or books on collecting locations will become available. Stealing information is not helping the hobby, it is hurting it. OK, rant off.... -dan z- From mela at bartnet.net Tue Oct 5 12:11:14 2004 From: mela at bartnet.net (Mel Albright) Date: Tue Oct 5 12:11:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material References: <000701c4aa3e$83294230$44af61cc@M1Garand> <41619ECD.5030909@home.nl><003501c4aa68$fd992790$dab2950c@jessie> <41623AAF.8010500@home.nl> Message-ID: <000f01c4ab0f$18f56110$98b2950c@jessie> Does Bocamina cost anything to produce? Then someone is getting paid. But, because it is available on the web also doesn't make their copyright less stringent. Putting it on the web does NOT abandon the copyright. You are NOT free to copy it and use it on your own page. It's still theirs. Mel PS I made my living in research and development before retiring. - Allo new!!! From frankdewit at home.nl Tue Oct 5 12:24:57 2004 From: frankdewit at home.nl (Frank de Wit) Date: Tue Oct 5 12:25:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material In-Reply-To: <000f01c4ab0f$18f56110$98b2950c@jessie> References: <000701c4aa3e$83294230$44af61cc@M1Garand> <41619ECD.5030909@home.nl><003501c4aa68$fd992790$dab2950c@jessie> <41623AAF.8010500@home.nl> <000f01c4ab0f$18f56110$98b2950c@jessie> Message-ID: <4162F509.1010302@home.nl> dear mel, who are you addressing? i do not have it on my website and i am not copying it and i'm doing nothing with it but reading they are doing that themselves... perhaps you should ask your questions directly to bocamina you can find them here: http://www.bocamina.com/esp/home.htm Mel Albright wrote: >Does Bocamina cost anything to produce? Then someone is getting paid. > >But, because it is available on the web also doesn't make their copyright >less stringent. Putting it on the web does NOT abandon the copyright. You >are NOT free to copy it and use it on your own page. It's still theirs. > >Mel > >PS I made my living in research and development before retiring. - Allo >new!!! > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From gbrown at xmn.com Mon Oct 4 07:03:25 2004 From: gbrown at xmn.com (gary brown) Date: Tue Oct 5 18:38:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dr. Bill -- Rock Star! Message-ID: <200410041358.i94DwPSV025510@bubbleator.drizzle.com> That's right.he's baaaccckkk! http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/9828393.htm GcB --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gbrown at xmn.com Mon Oct 4 07:14:33 2004 From: gbrown at xmn.com (gary brown) Date: Tue Oct 5 18:38:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Recall: Dr. Bill -- Rock Star! Message-ID: gary brown would like to recall the message, "Dr. Bill -- Rock Star!". --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) application/ms-tnef --- From danz at acmenet.net Mon Oct 4 11:12:18 2004 From: danz at acmenet.net (Dan Z) Date: Tue Oct 5 18:38:15 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material Message-ID: <000701c4aa3d$b00c9c80$44af61cc@M1Garand> Today I found that someone had posted forty pages of our book, Rockhounding in Eastern New York and Nearby New England, to an MSN Groups web site. When I emailed the owner, requesting he remove the material, he got mad at me! This is the second email I sent him after his angry first response: "Eric, we spent thousands of hours and drove thousands of miles to develop that book. We did so because good site information is so hard to find for this area. We make VERY little on the book after printing costs, preferring to help the hobbyist rather than try to gouge them. In fact, the book is selling for only a couple of dollars more now than it did when we first started it in 1990, despite the increases in paper and printing costs. "However it greatly upsets us to find that someone would rather steal the data than invest less than $10. Finding just one decent piece at any one of the sites would be worth more than that! If future editions of this book, are ever to be produced, hobbyists must support it. You might add a notice to your web site that posting of copyrighted materials will not be tolerated. To further this end, I have uploaded a picture than can be placed as number one on the maps section to: http://www.manyfacets.com/nocopy.jpg . Feel free to use it - no copyright on it ." Where do people get this attitude? How can someone get mad at me because illegal stolen material of mine is being used on his web site? I'm afraid I just don't understand.... Time to retire, maybe. -dan z- - - Protect your civil rights! Let the politicians know how you feel. Join or donate to the NRA today! http://membership.nrahq.org/default.asp?campaignid=XR014887 From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Oct 5 19:23:30 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Oct 5 19:20:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Re: Theft of copyrighted...last flare-up References: Message-ID: <41635651.7780@Tomaszewski.net> Aaron Fox wrote: > > I should know better than to get involved in this, but.... > > Speaking from a United States perspective: > You can get an excellent overview of copyright at http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html From lanny at lrream.com Tue Oct 5 22:04:45 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Tue Oct 5 22:03:46 2004 Subject: Antw: RE: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted...last flare-up In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3D470295-1755-11D9-8BC9-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Aaron, Yes, you should have known better, so should I. You were doing so well until you threw in your own value judgments about when an author or publisher should give up his rights. I find it quite interesting how groups and individuals start screaming "greed" when they disagree with a corporation's or individual's interest/right to make a profit/earn money with published goods. It is rather interesting how such complainers don't see their own desire to have something for free as greed. Somehow they manage to overlook the fact that what they want for free was created by someone else as their method of making an income and their desire to have that item for free is even greedier (one worked for it, yet their desire to have income from it is supposedly greed, the other did nothing but whine and cry and their desire to have the item for free is apparently not greed). > * Music / Movies: Why should I pay $18, most of which goes > to a multinational corporation, when I could just buy > directly > from the author? The big media corps are frightened by this; > they see their coming obselesence. So, they do what any > animal > does when threatened; they attempt to eliminate the threat. If the author wants it that way, they can avoid contracts with those nasty giant corporations that invest and risk millions to make millions and produce their own music isntead. Some are, thanks to the web, but most of the big names in music would not have become big names in music with expensive traveling concerts if it wasn't for the promotion from those nasty big corporations. Don't read too much in to this, I think $18 for a CD is way more than "fair" too. > 1) Right of Fair Use: This needs to be enforced by the courts, > otherwise > the media conglomerates, in collusion with our 'elected > representatives', > will stamp out the whole concept. I don't believe recent court decisions has come close to stamping out fair use. The big problem is most people have no idea what fair use is or ever was according to the statutes and case law. > > 2) Reasonable Copyright Terms: We need to strike down the Sonny Bono > Act, > and go back to more reasonable terms of copyright. Death plus 50 years > is way too long, IMHO. The law was life + 50 years, the Sonny Bono Act changed it to life + 70 years. I don't see that as all that much of a problem. The USA also signed on with the Berne Copyright convention of 1971 and 1978 which provides for the life of the author + 70 years. That is the what most of the world goes by. > > 4) Educate adults on the limits of fair use. I think most folks don't > have a good idea what the doctrine of fair-use allows and prohibits. I > think most people would be willing to honor it, if they knew what it > was > about. I don't think most people would be willing to honor it, if they did, there would be very little copyright violations now. I doubt that most people who copy 40 pages of a book and put it on their web site really believe that is Fair Use. I doubt that most people who copy or trade songs believe that is Fair Use. > > Maybe, when I get out from under the mountain of work I've got, I'll go > back to my old mass media law textbooks and draft something. A quick > and > dirty guide that you can forward to all your friends and to suspected > infringers, to educate them on the laws... No need, there are several primers from various organizations on the web now. As an author and a publisher, I do not personally see a need for me or my family/heirs to have protection of my writings and publishings for my life + 70 years or even 50 years, but I don't believe I have any right to tell the next author or publisher that they have to go by my interests. The law of life +70 years is recognized around the world and has been for almost 30 years (with many variations of life + 50 years, or forever in various countries for nearly 100 years). Obviously a majority of countries/lawmakers/authors/publishers think it is good thing. Personally I don't understand why so many people seem to think the copyright laws are unfair, unjust or simply a mark of greed. They protect the authors and publishers and give them an incentive to write and publish. I've never met a carpenter who is willing to give me his work for free, or a farmer who has offered to fill my freezer with the efforts of his labors, or any other complainer of the copyright laws offer to give me the results of their efforts. Interesting how they see this as a one way street. I believe I've met a lot more authors and publishers who give away a goodly portion of their work then any carpenters, farmers, hair dressers, etc. who give away any of their efforts. Regards, Lanny From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Wed Oct 6 01:30:56 2004 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Linda Rasmussen) Date: Wed Oct 6 01:31:05 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material OR Bait and switch tactics References: <200410051236.i95CZsdE007337@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <007c01c4ab7e$ce09e340$645fe842@pavilion> Hi there Frank Boy, Please tell me about your experiences with Mineral's and Rocks, I really get a kick out of your put down's on this Mineral and Rock site, try as I might I just dont seem to get your message, the only thing that keeps coming through is me, me, me, they love me, they worship me on and on and on, I'm so learned, I'm so smart Blah, Blah Blah. So now you have us spell bound, but please tell us about your Mineral's and Rocks before your mother finds out your playing on the computer again spanks your butt and sends you to bed with out supper you Naughty, Naughty boy. The Rest of you grown up's stop playing to this kids whims and please get back on subject. ( Dident you get it, his friends are having a laugh when they read this. ) His statement and findings of fact. Just when I'm learning thing's here .......SMACK............there's that kid again baiting some and controlling this board. Argus ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gemcollectors Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 6:35 AM Subject: Antw: RE: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material > oh axel, > > you did not understand me the last time > i did not expect that you understood me this time > i was not waiting for that also, i just wanted to give my view > am i not entitled to do that? so please treat me with respect and don't personally attack me on a public list > you could also have sent me a private email... > > so please ignore me and i will ignore you, as i did the last year > i don't hide, i could have ignored the first email > but no, i chose to respond and give my opinion on copyright > for i like my opinion, it's not contraproductive at all (that's your opinion) > i am not victimized at all, i like what i do > and i do create a lot, i spend hours per day on the site and write articles; and i don't care if the whole world copies it > my site gets visited by you and sometimes 500 others on a daily basis; so my site serves people and gives fun; it serves you too... > it gives me fun also, and lots of nice contacts around the world > the only negative responses come from you and very few others (i can count them on one hand... and all are some belgians) > well enjoy yourselves please, me and my close friends enjoy laughing about it; i rather have them around me than 'others' > (yeah, we are all thiefs, crooks and lowlife, satisfied now?) > > my opinion did not change because you and some other belgians disagreed with me, no, it strengthened my opinion > more people agreed with me than disagreed... that makes me do what i do. > > o axel, if you never copied a cdrom or music-tape or copied an article please throw the first stone... > > and before you reply again, please read my first email again > and try to write down questions instead of accusations for once please, i know it's difficult but just try it, it's fun ! > > > > > > > Van: "Axel Emmermann" > > Aan: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Datum: di 5 okt 04, 13:08 > > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material > > > > >Copyright; well.... I have had my part of that discussion here; I don't > > >want that discussion in my life a second time ;-) > > > > >But my opinion to copyright is the following, please don't shoot me, > > >flame me or send me hate mails > > >It is my opinion... please treat my opinion as something valuable and > > >just ignore me :-) > > > > Then don't go saying things that border on the immoral and are in clear > > contradiction with the law... AGAIN > > > > >-All information should be free, freely available on the internet... > > >it's a kind of rebel thing perhaps, well I'm still young > > > > You are old enough to fly (at least: anyone visiting your site is confronted > > with that and other signs of wealth that you flaunt on it)so you must be old > > enough to be responsible for what you say. Don't hide. > > If you ONLY SAY that "all information should be free", you 're a rebel, yes. > > If you steal the intellectual property of any author, on the other hand, you > > are a thief. Not a rebel. A bit of a silly attitude perhaps, that "rebel > > concept" and only valid to yourself since you clearly choose to copy rather > > than create. You copy every document you can lay your hands on to put it on > > your site. Hence the discussion you already had and did not want in your > > life a second time. You have been confronted with angry authors before. You > > should not give people on this list the impression that you were victimized > > while you were in fact the perpetrator. I find it disturbing that you still > > choose to spread these counterproductive thoughts... > > > > Every single photo or article comes from an author who spent time and effort > > creating them. Denying an author the right to possess the intellectual > > property of his own work is either a very opportunistic form of twisted > > communism or a way to get noticed without being noticeable... > > I think many people on the Internet steal copy to "piggyback-ride" into the > > realm of the "Interesting Few". Usually the site they present is not about > > the topic they claim it covers but about themselves... They want to be seen, > > that's all. > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From jabac at hal-pc.org Wed Oct 6 04:21:49 2004 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Wed Oct 6 04:20:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dugway Geodes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1097061709.2748.1.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2004-10-03 at 18:25, jjunkroski wrote: > Thirty years ago I took my pre-teen nephews out to look for Dugway Geodes. > > It was their first trip onto the desert and we had some success, filling a > five-gallon bucket with mostly golf-ball size specimens many of which show a > nice fluorescence under SW U-V. > > We are considering repeating the trip next spring, and being somewhat more > experienced, we'd hope to find some larger ones and perhaps a bit more > variety. > > Can anyone suggest locations? Anyone been out there since 9/11? Have the > military tightened up? I seem to remember we roamed around aimlessly all > over the "Proving Grounds" and nobody seemed to care. So long as you stay South of the Northern end of the Dugway Mtns, no one will care very much (unless something is coming down from space). The old mines in the Dugways are of little use to the rockhound but the view from around them of the Proving Grounds is great. Beware of hunting season; there are lots of antelope around. > Also, any other sites within a half-days ride where we would have a chance > at finding anything fluorescent ? Nothing fluorescent but you have to go to Topaz Mountain since you are so close. In fact it is probably easier to go to the mountain from Delta, and then up the East side roads to Dugway than go from the Pony Express Road (The old Lincoln Highway that Woody Guthrie sang about), and find your way down to Topaz Mtn. There is a nice agate location in the Drum Mtns. just South of Topaz Mtn: from the turnoff to Topaz Mtn on Co Road 174 from Delta, go back one mile and take the road South. Just as you get to the hills about two miles travel, there is a dirt road off to the right leading to "Agate Hill". Lots of nice jasp-agate and hard rhyolite; takes a nice polish; hard work to remove. The Black Rock Desert just above Milford has lots of obsidian. Probably the easiest to get to is: Go to the road to the Geothermal plant a few miles above Milford. Follow the road to the mountains and just before it rises there is obsidian/pitchstone all over the hill. Check in Delta about the fossil locations. The Main Street shop has the best guides, claims, and locations. Skip the Sunstone Knoll location to avoid disappointment. john From volgems at icx.net Wed Oct 6 05:37:29 2004 From: volgems at icx.net (John Teague) Date: Wed Oct 6 05:37:52 2004 Subject: Antw: RE: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted...last flare-up Message-ID: <12580423.1097066249886.JavaMail.root@wamui02.slb.atl.earthlink.net> There you go again, Lanny, using logic and reason! Where would this list be, nay, where would the world be, if we all did that? :-) John -----Original Message----- From: Lanny Sent: Oct 6, 2004 1:04 AM To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Subject: Re: Antw: RE: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted...last flare-up Aaron, Yes, you should have known better, so should I. . . . . . From afox at drizzle.com Wed Oct 6 05:47:21 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Wed Oct 6 05:47:54 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Theft/Copyright Message-ID: We should wrap this thread up. I've had a few polite complaints through email about it, and I also think we've covered about as much ground as is necessary. Apologies for fanning the fires; lets' get back to rocks. a. -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From Docia1154 at aol.com Wed Oct 6 06:08:56 2004 From: Docia1154 at aol.com (Docia1154@aol.com) Date: Wed Oct 6 06:09:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cubscout merit badge Message-ID: <9f.4f441bab.2e954868@aol.com> I've been asked by my neighbors, since I'm the only rock hound they know, if I would put together a program to help their cubscout troop earn their geology badge. Has anyone on this group ever done such a program? Any hints or ideas out there? They asked yesterday and are hoping I have something by Saturday which is a bit short notice. Thanks for any assistance. Docia --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From stu at arcrystalmine.com Wed Oct 6 06:10:28 2004 From: stu at arcrystalmine.com (stu@arcrystalmine.com) Date: Wed Oct 6 06:10:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] World Championship Crystal Dig References: Message-ID: <001b01c4aba5$dc4a31e0$6400a8c0@STUART> We have 126 diggers signed up for the World Championship Crystal Dig which starts tomorrow morning. A non profit corporation called GeoAmerica out of Dallas will be making a video documentary of the dig this year http://www.geoamerica.tv and we hope to put the results on the Chamber web site each night http://www.mtidachamber.com/ Wish you all could join us for the fun and festivities. With appreciation & gratitude, Stuart Schmitt Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine www.arcrystalmine.com 60 Mary's Eagle Trail Mount Ida, AR 71957 (870) 867-2443 From tjokela at execulink.com Wed Oct 6 06:16:35 2004 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Wed Oct 6 06:24:57 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cubscout merit badge References: <9f.4f441bab.2e954868@aol.com> Message-ID: <000001c4aba7$d3db28a0$6401a8c0@Junior> I see "The Rock Cycle" in your future! I've never done it, but I can tell you that you want to bring rock samples to hand around and keep the kids interested, or they will eat you alive. My friend does a dozen hour-long presentations on fossils to local schools and the kids love it, he brings about 6 or 10 big cases full of fossils. You'll really need to spice it up, hopefully you've got a chunk of gold ore, or better yet, a piece of kimberlite, that'll get them excited. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 9:08 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cubscout merit badge > I've been asked by my neighbors, since I'm the only rock hound they know, if > I would put together a program to help their cubscout troop earn their geology > badge. > > Has anyone on this group ever done such a program? Any hints or ideas out > there? > > They asked yesterday and are hoping I have something by Saturday which is a > bit short notice. > > Thanks for any assistance. > > Docia > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From xossfs at yahoo.com Wed Oct 6 06:36:48 2004 From: xossfs at yahoo.com (Stephen Stover) Date: Wed Oct 6 06:37:10 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cubscout merit badge In-Reply-To: <000001c4aba7$d3db28a0$6401a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <20041006133648.56299.qmail@web20027.mail.yahoo.com> I am a cub scout leader so expect 6 - 20 kids depending on how many dens you will talk to. The kids will be 2nd and third graders so keep it simple. When I talk to the younger kids combine minerals with stuff they know. Like DO you know what a crystal is? Are Crystals big or small? Small right? Tehn haul out a big crystal ans surprise them. Ask colors what a geode is etc. metnion that you found some of them close by. Tell them what state or soucntyr they come from. Helps of Geography. Then to hit it home. Take a 5 gallon bucket of sand and salt it with some small crystals, fossils, and things and let then sift a shovel full and let them rock hunt. They can find some cool rocks that way. Remeber rokcs Float "pumice", You cannot see thorugh rocks "Quartz" Rocks come in boring colors "Amazonite" Rocks are not useful? "metal ores (Galena" Rocks are hard "talks" Rocks are solid "Mica" They just lay on the ground. "Chalk" You cannot eat rocks "salt" etc --- "Tim Jokela Jr." wrote: > I see "The Rock Cycle" in your future! > > I've never done it, but I can tell you that you want > to bring rock samples > to hand around and keep the kids interested, or they > will eat you alive. My > friend does a dozen hour-long presentations on > fossils to local schools and > the kids love it, he brings about 6 or 10 big cases > full of fossils. You'll > really need to spice it up, hopefully you've got a > chunk of gold ore, or > better yet, a piece of kimberlite, that'll get them > excited. > > Cheers, > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > The minerals of Ontario: > http://www.ontariominerals.com > Minerals through the microscope: > http://www.micromounts.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 9:08 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cubscout merit badge > > > > I've been asked by my neighbors, since I'm the > only rock hound they know, > if > > I would put together a program to help their > cubscout troop earn their > geology > > badge. > > > > Has anyone on this group ever done such a program? > Any hints or ideas out > > there? > > > > They asked yesterday and are hoping I have > something by Saturday which is > a > > bit short notice. > > > > Thanks for any assistance. > > > > Docia > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > ===== Stephen F. Stover PH (281) 829-1102 xossfs@yahoo.com Wanting to hunt rocks and play games every day! _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com From mike at colellaphoto.com Wed Oct 6 06:44:04 2004 From: mike at colellaphoto.com (Michael J. Colella) Date: Wed Oct 6 06:44:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cubscout merit badge In-Reply-To: <000001c4aba7$d3db28a0$6401a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <200410060943770.SM02380@mjce4712fb7466> I do a couple 1 hour sessions to our parish grade school every year when they get to the Earth Sciences section. I bring visually exciting samples as well as minerals that are actually used in real life. They get a kick out of that. Like copper/ pennies, or graphite/ pencils... Fossils too are great. In an hour you can't get too complicated. I find that just making them aware of what the Earth is made of, rocks, gems & minerals and how they help us, is a great start. Also a few rough gem material & a finished cut stone is also a big winner. Good luck. Mike Michael J. Colella Colella Photography 2806 Jennings Rd. Kensington, MD 20895 Studio: 301-942-2853 Cell:301-520-9195 Web: http://colellaphoto.com E-mail: mike@colellaphoto.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Tim Jokela Jr. Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 9:17 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cubscout merit badge I see "The Rock Cycle" in your future! I've never done it, but I can tell you that you want to bring rock samples to hand around and keep the kids interested, or they will eat you alive. My friend does a dozen hour-long presentations on fossils to local schools and the kids love it, he brings about 6 or 10 big cases full of fossils. You'll really need to spice it up, hopefully you've got a chunk of gold ore, or better yet, a piece of kimberlite, that'll get them excited. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 9:08 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cubscout merit badge > I've been asked by my neighbors, since I'm the only rock hound they know, if > I would put together a program to help their cubscout troop earn their geology > badge. > > Has anyone on this group ever done such a program? Any hints or ideas out > there? > > They asked yesterday and are hoping I have something by Saturday which is a > bit short notice. > > Thanks for any assistance. > > Docia > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Docia1154 at aol.com Wed Oct 6 06:57:24 2004 From: Docia1154 at aol.com (Docia1154@aol.com) Date: Wed Oct 6 06:57:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cubscout merit badge Message-ID: <1d8.2d0efff9.2e9553c4@aol.com> thanks for those ideas, I can tell I have my work cut out for me. I'm going to have to get out here locally and find a few items that will get their interest of what is found in this immediate vacinity - I wish I had a small % of knowledge that many on this list have about the minerals etc. I find. I am just a rock hound in the very simpliest sense of the word - I simply love getting out and looking at what can be found and enjoying the outdoors. I will try to put together something that will just get them interested in what they might find locally and then plan a date in the future to get back together and see what they find. By then perhaps I will have a better "program" put together. Thanks arock! Docia In a message dated 10/6/2004 8:37:59 AM Central Daylight Time, xossfs@yahoo.com writes: I am a cub scout leader so expect 6 - 20 kids depending on how many dens you will talk to. The kids will be 2nd and third graders so keep it simple. When I talk to the younger kids combine minerals with stuff they know. Like DO you know what a crystal is? Are Crystals big or small? Small right? Tehn haul out a big crystal ans surprise them. Ask colors what a geode is etc. metnion that you found some of them close by. Tell them what state or soucntyr they come from. Helps of Geography. Then to hit it home. Take a 5 gallon bucket of sand and salt it with some small crystals, fossils, and things and let then sift a shovel full and let them rock hunt. They can find some cool rocks that way. Remeber rokcs Float "pumice", You cannot see thorugh rocks "Quartz" Rocks come in boring colors "Amazonite" Rocks are not useful? "metal ores (Galena" Rocks are hard "talks" Rocks are solid "Mica" They just lay on the ground. "Chalk" You cannot eat rocks "salt" etc --- "Tim Jokela Jr." wrote: > I see "The Rock Cycle" in your future! > > I've never done it, but I can tell you that you want > to bring rock samples > to hand around and keep the kids interested, or they > will eat you alive. My > friend does a dozen hour-long presentations on > fossils to local schools and > the kids love it, he brings about 6 or 10 big cases > full of fossils. You'll > really need to spice it up, hopefully you've got a > chunk of gold ore, or > better yet, a piece of kimberlite, that'll get them > excited. > > Cheers, > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > The minerals of Ontario: > http://www.ontariominerals.com > Minerals through the microscope: > http://www.micromounts.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 9:08 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cubscout merit badge > > > > I've been asked by my neighbors, since I'm the > only rock hound they know, > if > > I would put together a program to help their > cubscout troop earn their > geology > > badge. > > > > Has anyone on this group ever done such a program? > Any hints or ideas out > > there? > > > > They asked yesterday and are hoping I have > something by Saturday which is > a > > bit short notice. > > > > Thanks for any assistance. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Docia1154 at aol.com Wed Oct 6 07:00:25 2004 From: Docia1154 at aol.com (Docia1154@aol.com) Date: Wed Oct 6 07:00:57 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cubscout merit badge Message-ID: <64.45760ff6.2e955479@aol.com> In a message dated 10/6/2004 8:25:34 AM Central Daylight Time, tjokela@execulink.com writes: I see "The Rock Cycle" in your future! I've never done it, but I can tell you that you want to bring rock samples to hand around and keep the kids interested, or they will eat you alive. My friend does a dozen hour-long presentations on fossils to local schools and the kids love it, he brings about 6 or 10 big cases full of fossils. You'll really need to spice it up, hopefully you've got a chunk of gold ore, or better yet, a piece of kimberlite, that'll get them excited. Cheers, that would be great if I had big cases full of anything available. We just moved to this area 3 months ago and what I kept from past collections are boxed up and put into storage and, no doubt, impossible to get to. I do know where I can get hemitite and calcite here locally and if time allows some chalcopyrite, pyrite and galena, perhaps some dolomite. Looks like the next couple of days could be very busy if it doesn't rain I may have a chance of getting enough put together for a start. Thanks, Docia --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Gslrocks at aol.com Wed Oct 6 07:06:54 2004 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Wed Oct 6 07:07:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cubscout merit badge Message-ID: <7f.4e21991c.2e9555fe@aol.com> what area of the country are you in? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Wed Oct 6 07:21:45 2004 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Wed Oct 6 07:22:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cubscout merit badge In-Reply-To: <1d8.2d0efff9.2e9553c4@aol.com> References: <1d8.2d0efff9.2e9553c4@aol.com> Message-ID: <4163FF79.5040701@tenforward.com> Hi Docia and Everyone, Docia, you wrote, " I simply love getting out and looking at what can be found and enjoying the outdoors." Please, from my perspective, pass this on, pass on the reason for your passion! From there, consider this website... http://www.meritbadge.com/home.htm This is the merit badge research site. Continue to... http://www.meritbadge.com/mb/ This is the merit badge index, scroll down to Geology and click. This site is for Boy Scouts, a bit of a step up from Cub Scouts, but their requirements will follow the same basic guidelines. I did not do any searching beyond this, but by going to Google and taking the time, I'm sure there is a lot of information out there. As important as it is to pass on things that are comfortable to us, it's more important to actually pass on the information they'll need to fulfill their badge requirements. Your doing a good thing here! If I can help..... All the very best, John Docia1154@aol.com wrote: >thanks for those ideas, I can tell I have my work cut out for me. I'm going >to have to get out here locally and find a few items that will get their >interest of what is found in this immediate vacinity - I wish I had a small % of >knowledge that many on this list have about the minerals etc. I find. I am just >a rock hound in the very simpliest sense of the word - I simply love getting >out and looking at what can be found and enjoying the outdoors. I will try to >put together something that will just get them interested in what they might >find locally and then plan a date in the future to get back together and see >what they find. By then perhaps I will have a better "program" put together. > >Thanks arock! > >Docia > > >In a message dated 10/6/2004 8:37:59 AM Central Daylight Time, >xossfs@yahoo.com writes: >I am a cub scout leader so expect 6 - 20 kids >depending on how many dens you will talk to. The kids >will be 2nd and third graders so keep it simple. When >I talk to the younger kids combine minerals with stuff >they know. Like DO you know what a crystal is? Are >Crystals big or small? Small right? Tehn haul out a >big crystal ans surprise them. Ask colors what a >geode is etc. metnion that you found some of them >close by. Tell them what state or soucntyr they come >from. Helps of Geography. Then to hit it home. Take >a 5 gallon bucket of sand and salt it with some small >crystals, fossils, and things and let then sift a >shovel full and let them rock hunt. They can find >some cool rocks that way. Remeber rokcs Float >"pumice", You cannot see thorugh rocks "Quartz" >Rocks come in boring colors "Amazonite" Rocks are not >useful? "metal ores (Galena" Rocks are hard "talks" >Rocks are solid "Mica" They just lay on the ground. >"Chalk" You cannot eat rocks "salt" etc > > >--- "Tim Jokela Jr." wrote: > > > >>I see "The Rock Cycle" in your future! >> >>I've never done it, but I can tell you that you want >>to bring rock samples >>to hand around and keep the kids interested, or they >>will eat you alive. My >>friend does a dozen hour-long presentations on >>fossils to local schools and >>the kids love it, he brings about 6 or 10 big cases >>full of fossils. You'll >>really need to spice it up, hopefully you've got a >>chunk of gold ore, or >>better yet, a piece of kimberlite, that'll get them >>excited. >> >>Cheers, >> >>Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com >>Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com >>The minerals of Ontario: >>http://www.ontariominerals.com >>Minerals through the microscope: >>http://www.micromounts.com >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: >>To: >>Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 9:08 AM >>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cubscout merit badge >> >> >> >> >>>I've been asked by my neighbors, since I'm the >>> >>> >>only rock hound they know, >>if >> >> >>>I would put together a program to help their >>> >>> >>cubscout troop earn their >>geology >> >> >>>badge. >>> >>>Has anyone on this group ever done such a program? >>> >>> >> Any hints or ideas out >> >> >>>there? >>> >>>They asked yesterday and are hoping I have >>> >>> >>something by Saturday which is >>a >> >> >>>bit short notice. >>> >>>Thanks for any assistance. >>> >>> > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From xossfs at yahoo.com Wed Oct 6 07:24:52 2004 From: xossfs at yahoo.com (Stephen Stover) Date: Wed Oct 6 07:25:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cubscout merit badge In-Reply-To: <1d8.2d0efff9.2e9553c4@aol.com> Message-ID: <20041006142452.4708.qmail@web20025.mail.yahoo.com> find the local rock club and rock shop. You might be able to borrow a few items to help too. --- Docia1154@aol.com wrote: > thanks for those ideas, I can tell I have my work > cut out for me. I'm going > to have to get out here locally and find a few items > that will get their > interest of what is found in this immediate vacinity > - I wish I had a small % of > knowledge that many on this list have about the > minerals etc. I find. I am just > a rock hound in the very simpliest sense of the word > - I simply love getting > out and looking at what can be found and enjoying > the outdoors. I will try to > put together something that will just get them > interested in what they might > find locally and then plan a date in the future to > get back together and see > what they find. By then perhaps I will have a > better "program" put together. > > Thanks arock! > > Docia > > > In a message dated 10/6/2004 8:37:59 AM Central > Daylight Time, > xossfs@yahoo.com writes: > I am a cub scout leader so expect 6 - 20 kids > depending on how many dens you will talk to. The > kids > will be 2nd and third graders so keep it simple. > When > I talk to the younger kids combine minerals with > stuff > they know. Like DO you know what a crystal is? Are > Crystals big or small? Small right? Tehn haul out > a > big crystal ans surprise them. Ask colors what a > geode is etc. metnion that you found some of them > close by. Tell them what state or soucntyr they > come > from. Helps of Geography. Then to hit it home. > Take > a 5 gallon bucket of sand and salt it with some > small > crystals, fossils, and things and let then sift a > shovel full and let them rock hunt. They can find > some cool rocks that way. Remeber rokcs Float > "pumice", You cannot see thorugh rocks "Quartz" > Rocks come in boring colors "Amazonite" Rocks are > not > useful? "metal ores (Galena" Rocks are hard "talks" > > Rocks are solid "Mica" They just lay on the ground. > > "Chalk" You cannot eat rocks "salt" etc > > > --- "Tim Jokela Jr." wrote: > > > I see "The Rock Cycle" in your future! > > > > I've never done it, but I can tell you that you > want > > to bring rock samples > > to hand around and keep the kids interested, or > they > > will eat you alive. My > > friend does a dozen hour-long presentations on > > fossils to local schools and > > the kids love it, he brings about 6 or 10 big > cases > > full of fossils. You'll > > really need to spice it up, hopefully you've got a > > chunk of gold ore, or > > better yet, a piece of kimberlite, that'll get > them > > excited. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > > The minerals of Ontario: > > http://www.ontariominerals.com > > Minerals through the microscope: > > http://www.micromounts.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 9:08 AM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cubscout merit badge > > > > > > > I've been asked by my neighbors, since I'm the > > only rock hound they know, > > if > > > I would put together a program to help their > > cubscout troop earn their > > geology > > > badge. > > > > > > Has anyone on this group ever done such a > program? > > Any hints or ideas out > > > there? > > > > > > They asked yesterday and are hoping I have > > something by Saturday which is > > a > > > bit short notice. > > > > > > Thanks for any assistance. > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > ===== Stephen F. Stover PH (281) 829-1102 xossfs@yahoo.com Wanting to hunt rocks and play games every day! _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Wed Oct 6 07:29:03 2004 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Wed Oct 6 07:30:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cubscout merit badge In-Reply-To: <64.45760ff6.2e955479@aol.com> References: <64.45760ff6.2e955479@aol.com> Message-ID: <4164012F.9020905@tenforward.com> Hi Docia and All, Say, do you have a local rock club handy? By going to the American Federation of Mineralogical Societies web site (another Google search) you could check your local Federation for clubs in your state and/or town. With a couple phone calls, perhaps you could have more help and materials then you'd like. Just thoughts as I'm reading this mornings mail.... John Docia1154@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 10/6/2004 8:25:34 AM Central Daylight Time, >tjokela@execulink.com writes: >I see "The Rock Cycle" in your future! > >I've never done it, but I can tell you that you want to bring rock samples >to hand around and keep the kids interested, or they will eat you alive. My >friend does a dozen hour-long presentations on fossils to local schools and >the kids love it, he brings about 6 or 10 big cases full of fossils. You'll >really need to spice it up, hopefully you've got a chunk of gold ore, or >better yet, a piece of kimberlite, that'll get them excited. > >Cheers, >that would be great if I had big cases full of anything available. We just >moved to this area 3 months ago and what I kept from past collections are boxed >up and put into storage and, no doubt, impossible to get to. I do know where >I can get hemitite and calcite here locally and if time allows some >chalcopyrite, pyrite and galena, perhaps some dolomite. Looks like the next couple of >days could be very busy if it doesn't rain I may have a chance of getting >enough put together for a start. > >Thanks, Docia > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From Docia1154 at aol.com Wed Oct 6 07:45:31 2004 From: Docia1154 at aol.com (Docia1154@aol.com) Date: Wed Oct 6 07:46:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cubscout merit badge Message-ID: <84.35876f21.2e955f0b@aol.com> Thanks John - passing on my passion at least is fairly simple - anyone who knows me knows that I love rocks (some probably think most are in my head). I'm an enthusiast if nothing else and hope that I am able to pass that along. Well this isn't getting specimens gathered locally that I can use so I'd best go and do some collecting. Again thank you every one for your help. If I can get thru this initial program I will have time to work and build on more for later. Besides I can always take over a plate of cookies and give them something else to munch on so the "don't eat me alive". In a message dated 10/6/2004 9:23:10 AM Central Daylight Time, j&gcornish@tenforward.com writes: Hi Docia and Everyone, Docia, you wrote, " I simply love getting out and looking at what can be found and enjoying the outdoors." Please, from my perspective, pass this on, pass on the reason for your passion! From there, consider this website... http://www.meritbadge.com/home.htm This is the merit badge research site. Continue to... http://www.meritbadge.com/mb/ This is the merit badge index, scroll down to Geology and click. This site is for Boy Scouts, a bit of a step up from Cub Scouts, but their requirements will follow the same basic guidelines. I did not do any searching beyond this, but by going to Google and taking the time, I'm sure there is a lot of information out there. As important as it is to pass on things that are comfortable to us, it's more important to actually pass on the information they'll need to fulfill their badge requirements. Your doing a good thing here! If I can help..... All the very best, John --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Docia1154 at aol.com Wed Oct 6 07:49:23 2004 From: Docia1154 at aol.com (Docia1154@aol.com) Date: Wed Oct 6 07:49:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cubscout merit badge Message-ID: <145.35abc15a.2e955ff3@aol.com> In a message dated 10/6/2004 9:25:44 AM Central Daylight Time, xossfs@yahoo.com writes: find the local rock club and rock shop. You might be able to borrow a few items to help too. unfortuneately the local rock club doesn't do much, no field trips etc., However I will go to the rock shop in Rolla and see what I can get there. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From shm at tapnet.net Wed Oct 6 07:57:37 2004 From: shm at tapnet.net (SHM) Date: Wed Oct 6 07:58:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cubscout merit badge In-Reply-To: <64.45760ff6.2e955479@aol.com> Message-ID: <000a01c4abb4$eeefc350$a0e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Docia, I've just sent you a slew of stuff off-list, but here's a small suggestion in addition: If you have a piece of limestone or calcite, break off a small fragment and put it in a glass of vinegar at the beginning of your session. Toward the end you can show the scouts how the limestone or calcite has dissolved. Same thing happens in nature: rainwater is naturally acid because raindrops absorb carbon dioxide on the way down, so what falls on the earth is a dilute solution of carbonic acid. That dissolves limestones, dolomites, and marbles, and is the reason we have so many carbonate-floored valleys back here in Pennsylvania and New Jersey, and also elsewhere in temperate climates. It's an easy lesson in how rock types control the shape of landforms. Cheers- Earl Verbeek From nmartin at bbn.com Wed Oct 6 08:21:16 2004 From: nmartin at bbn.com (Nathan C. Martin II) Date: Wed Oct 6 08:22:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cubscout merit badge In-Reply-To: <9f.4f441bab.2e954868@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20041006110927.01e59628@po2.bbn.com> Docia, Here are the requirements for the cub scout geology belt loop and pin from http://www.usscouts.org/advance/cubscout/academics/geology.html I suggest that you talk to whoever asked you to help and find out what they really want you to do. From personal experience - this cannot be accomplished in a single meeting. The attention span of the kids is too limited. Note that several of the requirements require that the scouts do some collecting of their own. I found that the kids really liked learning about volcanos and their is plenty of info available on the volcano world web site. For example, look at http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vwdocs/volc_models/paper.html for a USGS cut out volcano model that you can download and print out on heavy stock. My grandson's cub scout pack enjoyed making these. Good luck with your project. It will take some work but you will enjoy it! Nate Martin Lexington, MA Belt Loop Complete these three requirements: * Define geology. * Collect a sample of igneous, sedimentary, and metamorphic rocks. Explain how each was formed. * Explain the difference between a rock and a mineral. ---------- Academics Pin Earn the Geology belt loop, and complete five of the following requirements: * Make a plaster cast of a fossil. * Make a special collection of rocks and minerals that illustrates the hardness scale. * Give examples of sedimentary, igneous, and metamorphic rocks. * Gather several different types of rocks. Compare them and put them in groups according to physical properties such as color, texture, luster, hardness, or crystals. * Describe the effects of wind, water, and ice on the landscape. * Make "pet rocks" using rocks, paint, and glue-on eyes. Tell a creative story about your pet rocks. * Draw a diagram showing different types of volcanoes or draw a diagram that labels the different parts of a volcano. * Make a crystal garden. * Make a collection of five different fossils and identify them to the best of your ability. * Make a poster or display showing 10 everyday products that contain or use rocks or minerals. * Visit a mine, oil or gas field, gravel pit, stone quarry, or similar area of special interest related to geology. * Visit with a geologist. Find out how he or she prepared for the job. Discuss other careers related to geology. * Draw the inside of a cave showing the difference between stalactites and stalagmites. At 09:08 AM 10/6/2004, you wrote: >I've been asked by my neighbors, since I'm the only rock hound they know, if >I would put together a program to help their cubscout troop earn their >geology >badge. > >Has anyone on this group ever done such a program? Any hints or ideas out >there? > >They asked yesterday and are hoping I have something by Saturday which is a >bit short notice. > >Thanks for any assistance. > >Docia --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Ted at crystalgems.com Wed Oct 6 08:53:16 2004 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted) Date: Wed Oct 6 08:53:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cub scout merit badge In-Reply-To: <9f.4f441bab.2e954868@aol.com> Message-ID: <001301c4abbc$9bdc1670$0200a8c0@gametime> Docia: Before you get all set up for a generic rock show, please be aware that specific requirements are established for the youngsters to meet in order for them to receive awards. This is not to say they can't benefit or enjoy a full rock demonstration, it is just to clarify that to receive awards the kids must meet requirements. The requirements are not strenuous, but are designed to engage the child in an activity while providing knowledge and skills. Instead of show and tell, think interaction and activity. Yes, the kids tend to be active, er, make that hyperactive, noisy, curious, excited and aloof all at once. Finally, expect to keep lecture to a minimum and activities less than 30 minutes. Very few Cub Scouts have a long attention span. Remember, these kids have already spent all day in class and they are ready to play. There is, to my knowledge, no "merit badge" in Cub Scouts. They do have two other awards that can have Geology as the topic. The awards are a belt loop and an academics pin. For the basic requirements go to: http://www.usscouts.org/usscouts/advance/cubscout/academics/geology.html. Good Luck Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Docia1154@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 9:09 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cubscout merit badge I've been asked by my neighbors, since I'm the only rock hound they know, if I would put together a program to help their cubscout troop earn their geology badge. Has anyone on this group ever done such a program? Any hints or ideas out there? They asked yesterday and are hoping I have something by Saturday which is a bit short notice. Thanks for any assistance. Docia --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From lanny at lrream.com Wed Oct 6 09:13:03 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Wed Oct 6 09:12:04 2004 Subject: Antw: RE: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted...last flare-up In-Reply-To: <12580423.1097066249886.JavaMail.root@wamui02.slb.atl.earthlink.net> References: <12580423.1097066249886.JavaMail.root@wamui02.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <99F7DAB0-17B2-11D9-8BC9-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Oh shoot, that always gets me into trouble! Maybe we should stick with rocks and minerals. Let's see, what to write about... OK Northwest mineral report for 2004: Hmm, nothing. No one told me about any new finds, neat finds, good finds or anything else worth writing about in minerals in the NW states, and I sure didn't add to the fun and excitement this summer. The Friends of Mineralogy NW Chapter symposium was a couple weeks ago, nothing new there. Darn, I guess everyones summer was as slow as mine. The Montana Crystal Collector's Rendezvous is in Butte in a week and a half, maybe Montana collectors had a better summer. That's it for the rock and mineral report. Guess I had better turn to the microscope, maybe something will turn up there from the summer's gatherings of large rocks with tiny cavities... Lanny On Oct 6, 2004, at 5:37 AM, John Teague wrote: > There you go again, Lanny, using logic and reason! Where would this > list be, nay, where would > the world be, if we all did that? > > :-) > > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lanny > Sent: Oct 6, 2004 1:04 AM > To: > "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Subject: Re: Antw: RE: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted...last > flare-up > > Aaron, > > Yes, you should have known better, so should I. > . > . > . > . > . > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Oct 6 18:40:51 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Oct 6 18:35:10 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cubscout merit badge References: <9f.4f441bab.2e954868@aol.com> Message-ID: <41649D13.239B@Tomaszewski.net> Docia1154@aol.com wrote: > > I've been asked by my neighbors, since I'm the only rock hound they know, if > I would put together a program to help their cubscout troop earn their geology > badge. > > Has anyone on this group ever done such a program? Any hints or ideas out > there? > > They asked yesterday and are hoping I have something by Saturday which is a > bit short notice. > > Thanks for any assistance. > > Docia Doing a search on Google for "Cub Scout Merit Badge Rocks and Minerals" found many websites with help for this badge. http://rockhoundingar.com/pebblepups/cubscouts.html was the best of the first few I looked at. There is lots of help on the web. From Docia1154 at aol.com Wed Oct 6 20:22:08 2004 From: Docia1154 at aol.com (Docia1154@aol.com) Date: Wed Oct 6 20:22:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cubscout merit badge Message-ID: <159.40e2fef6.2e961060@aol.com> In a message dated 10/6/2004 8:35:29 PM Central Daylight Time, Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: Doing a search on Google for "Cub Scout Merit Badge Rocks and Minerals" found many websites with help for this badge. http://rockhoundingar.com/pebblepups/cubscouts.html was the best of the first few I looked at. There is lots of help on the web. thanks, I've been on that site and have gotten lots of good information. I told them not to expect me to take them thru the whole process, just basically be an introduction and give them an idea of some of the minerals and rocks that are here. But looks like with the information so many of you have so generously shared here I will be able to do a pretty good program to introduce them to rockhounding. I also talked to my neighbor and told him I'd be willing to take them to a couple collecting areas providing sufficient scout leaders/parents are along - I will not take responsibility for the kids at the collecting sites. I know areas to collect drusy quartz, barite, calcite, limonite and hemitite that I can easily take them. I will try to get permission to take them to a truck entrance to a mine for chalcopyrite and possibly some dolomite and galena. But that will also depend on how many of them are actually interested. They are going to take a poll of the older scouts and see if any of them actually want to go for the geology merit badges. anyway, I'm rambling here, but wanted to thank each of you for your most welcome inputs and assists. Docia --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pmcallow at yahoo.com Wed Oct 6 20:58:14 2004 From: pmcallow at yahoo.com (Philip Callow) Date: Wed Oct 6 20:58:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Raytech 10" saw Message-ID: <20041007035814.6176.qmail@web10808.mail.yahoo.com> Members of list Has anyone out there done a retro fit or rebuild of the power feed unit for the Raytech 10". The placement of the powerfeed screw and trackbar lends itself to burning out powerfeed motors. Phil Callow pmcallow@yahoo.com From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Oct 6 21:36:34 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Oct 6 21:30:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: mineralogical nomenclature References: <5.1.0.14.0.20041005143613.00a595d0@mailhost.geo.vu.nl> Message-ID: <4164C62E.5F8E@Tomaszewski.net> Dr. Burke, I appreciate your taking time to consider my frustration with current mineral naming conventions, and your willingness to open a dialog on the issue. I am not a scientist or academic, but as a collector and hobbiest for over 40 years I have acquired some experience in the field and thank you for taking time to consider my opinions. A 'name' is a language unit, usually a unique word (but sometimes a phrase), by which something is designated, to distinguish it from all other things. Minerals need unique names so that we can refer to them, and so that all others will know what we are talking about. We need to agree on what is a 'mineral', and also agree on what it is to be named, hence the CNMMN. We have all agreed that a mineral will be described by a single word for its name. We have also agreed that CNMMN gets to name minerals, and that those namings are 'accepted'. Minerals are also chemicals, with distinct formula composition and physical structure. Being naturally formed, by chance conditions, minerals are seldom found in an isolated and unique form. As Rik and I observed, using common examples, identification of unique minerals is becomming significantly more difficult to do reliably, often requiring the use of sophisticated procedures and equipment to establish a proper and exact name. Collectors are increasingly forced to use more generic names for the specimens in their collections due to the increased difficulty in specific identification of a specimen. Unfortunately, accepted nomenclature is also making this more difficult, and many commonly accepeted mineral names are not officially 'recognized'. My primary complaint has to do with the trend towards confusing names with formula/structure, and trend towards mixing of the two attributes to make a 'name'. If Calcioancylite needs to be distinguished into two different minerals based on Ce or Nd, each unique mineral needs a "name" instead of the current mix of name and formula (i.e., Calcioancylite-{Ce}, Calcioancylite-{Nd}). Instead, the traditional use of grouping, and varietal names, should be followed, so each unique/recognized mineral acquires a unique name (i.e,, Calcioancylite var. CesioCalcioancylite, and Calcioancylite var. NeoCalcioancylite -- I have tried to keep with CNMMN convention, but someexamplite, and anotherthingite, for the varietial names, would be equally accepted). Most collectors (and academics) will commonly refer to the group name, Calcioancylite, and only refer to the unique names when the distinction makes a difference (and they can afford the analysis). My point is that mineral 'names' should be language units, not a mix of language units and chemical formulas. CNMMN needs to backtrack and assign unique 'names' to distinct minerals. When was the last time you successfully looked up "Monaxite-(Ce)" in a dictionary? Mixing names and formula confuses uniqueness for most people, and is counterproductive to a long term advancement of the science of minerals. Groups and varietal names make much more sense, and each mineral needs to be identified by a name that follows normal language conventions. If CNMMN can't give a unique 'name' to each "accepted" mineral, without mixing names and a formula attribute, they have failed to meet their responsibility as a standards body, in my opinion, because they don't understand what 'language' is. Mineral names need to be unique, but they also need to follow the conventions of common language; mixing language and formulas does not work. Each unique mineral needs a unique name, not a name mixed with a formula. Using groups, and varietal names, makes more sense than formulas as names, and better fits with tradition. Thank you again for considering my opinion, and I hope CNNMN reconsiders their approach to naming minerals to better conform to language norms and conventional usage. Kreigh Tomaszewski Ernst A.J. Burke wrote: > > Dear Rik and Kreigh, > > I am finally back in my office after some weeks of vacation, and I haven > taken notice of your messages on nomenclature. Rather, they seem to be > lamentations on the bad habits of the Commission on New Minerals and > Mineral Names (CNMMN). I assume that your discussions have been sparked by > the text of John S. White on what he calls the 'Nomenclature Debacle', a > paper published in Rocks and Minerals in the May-June 2004 issue. Replies > to this paper have been published (or should be soon) by Bill Birch, > secretary of the CNMMN, and Joe Mandarino, one of my predecessors as CNMMN > chairman. I agree with the reply of Bill Birch, I would have worded the > reply of Joe Mandarino in a different setting. Anyway, please read these > replies to White, and then I do not have to answer all your problems as > these are handled in these replies. > > Next, I will be the first to admit that mineralogical nomenclature is far > from ideal, there are too many inconsistencies in the system, caused in the > past, before 1959 and after 1959, 1959 being the starting year of the > CNMMN. I will give only one example of inconsistent nomenclature, even > incompatible with the CNMMN guidelines for mineral nomenclature: the > amphiboles. But the CNMMN is continuously working on these problems, see > the many subcommittees we have to clean up messes here and there. I am open > for all suggestions which would enhance our mineral nomenclature, I have > regularly discussions on this subject through the forum on the MINDAT > website, and therefore I am a bit flabbergasted when a global e-mail > campaign is proposed to change the views of the CNMMN. Flooding e-mail > boxes will not change nomenclature, I assume, and such threats only darken > a possible discussion before it can start. All proposals for changes can be > submitted to the CNMMN and will then discussed appropriately by the members. > > But before proposing changes, I must ask you to take notice of the current > CNMMN guidelines on mineral nomenclature, lastly published in 1998 in > several journals, but also available through the CNMMN website. You may > then see that the setting of a halfway barrier in a solid solution is not > artificial at all; you may then see why we really need Levinson modifiers > for rare-earth minerals; you may then see that cerite-(Ce) is not > pleonastic and that cerite-(La) is not a contradiction in terms. Please, > let us have serious discussions! Also the allegation that scientists only > describe new minerals for 15 minutes of fame or because of publication > pressure does not help a discussion, it only shows that persons saying such > things do not really understand science politics. > > Anyway, most of the problems signalled by White and by you two are not the > real problems. What is wrong in a collection if specimens are labelled > 'olivine' or 'chabazite'? Nothing, they are the right names, even if they > are not proper mineral names. I am surprised that you mention only such > examples for having to go to an expensive machine in order to get the real > name of a specimen. Are all your other minerals labelled correctly? I doubt > so. Only one example: we all know that there are dozens and dozens of blue > minerals in oxidation zones of copper and zinc ores. How did you identify > these minerals without machines? Are you sure you have their right names? > No, of course not. Why do collectors make a point with problems of olivine, > apatite or chabazite, if they do not make a point within the dozens and > dozens of (now) green minerals of the oxodation zones? Do you ever submit > such minerals to a lab? Of course, Rik uses his own microprobe, so he > should have no problems in labelling forsterites and fayalites, or do you? > I do not know whether you follow discussions on the MINDAT website, but > then we see the real problems for collectors, getting the right > information, especially from mineral dealers. > > I hope to have answered a bit your problems, and wish you the best with > your collections! > > Best regards, > > Ernst Burke. > > ---------------------------------------------------- > Ernst A.J. Burke > Faculty of Earth & Life Sciences > Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam > De Boelelaan 1085 > NL - 1081 HV Amsterdam, Netherlands > Tel. + 31 20 444 7345; Fax +31 20 646 2457 > e-mail: ernst.burke@falw.vu.nl > > Chair of the Commission on New Minerals and Mineral Names > of the International Mineralogical Association > see www.geo.vu.nl/users/ima-cnmmn/ From ljwill at directcon.net Wed Oct 6 21:33:17 2004 From: ljwill at directcon.net (Williams) Date: Wed Oct 6 21:33:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cubscout merit badge References: <9f.4f441bab.2e954868@aol.com> Message-ID: <005101c4ac26$c7d905c0$d0d14fd1@Williams> Docia, I have done this same thing for the Cub Scouts 3 years in a row. It helps if you have a place to collect minerals or rocks at and can get permission to have the kids and their parents collect there. I live in Northern California and have such a place where I can take them. I don't know where you live or if their is a mine dump to explore or not. If you do, take some time to write up a paper of the minerals or rocks to be found there including how to identify them and run copies for all concerned. The scouts would all need at least 10 different rocks & minerals and know what they are. Specimens should be put in a container ( I use clear plastic containers that have 10 or more compartments) along with index cards that have collecting information for each different specimen and that correspond with the compartment number for each. The scouts will each have their own collection from that location and You can discuss what they have collected with them to give them more information after the field trip. ALWAYS have them pick up and haul out the trash that other people and themselves leave. When they are ready, usually the next scout meeting, they bring their collection and cards and answer easy questions about what they have and why they are special. The collection is an integral part of the requirements and the knowledge gained is also,plus, cleaning up where they went is a BIG plus. If you want or need any more information, Please ask and I will help. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 6:08 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cubscout merit badge > I've been asked by my neighbors, since I'm the only rock hound they know, if > I would put together a program to help their cubscout troop earn their geology > badge. > > Has anyone on this group ever done such a program? Any hints or ideas out > there? > > They asked yesterday and are hoping I have something by Saturday which is a > bit short notice. > > Thanks for any assistance. > > Docia > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Wed Oct 6 22:27:12 2004 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Linda Rasmussen) Date: Wed Oct 6 22:27:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Raytech 10" saw References: <20041007035814.6176.qmail@web10808.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001201c4ac2e$4de76560$6b5fe842@pavilion> Phil, I am not familiar with your saw but I am familiar with your problem, first check your electrical wire to be sure it is all in one piece, if that checks out to be ok then make sure the wiring is of the right size to carry the load, then make sure you are actually getting 110v to the plug in, something that is overlooked now and again, a power drop to your motor is a guarantee of a burn out. If you are using a drop cord to your machine I would say its to small for the load, a short cord with wire that is at least 16/2 should work as long as its not to long. Argus ----- Original Message ----- From: Philip Callow To: Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 9:58 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Raytech 10" saw > Members of list > > Has anyone out there done a retro fit or rebuild of > the power feed unit for the Raytech 10". The > placement of the powerfeed screw and trackbar lends > itself to burning out powerfeed motors. > > Phil Callow > pmcallow@yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Oct 7 14:47:24 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Oct 7 14:48:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescence of Petalite In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I suspect that petalite is a mineral that sometimes, but not always, >fluoresces. It's certainly not one of the "most notable" ones. Indeed Pete ;-))) I acquired some specimens from Namibia and they fluoresce in different wavelenghts, different colors and very uneven (spotted) and never strong. Borderline collectible, I'd say. They were cheap so I bought them for refernce rather than display. Cheers Axel From TomE61 at aol.com Thu Oct 7 19:01:33 2004 From: TomE61 at aol.com (TomE61@aol.com) Date: Thu Oct 7 19:02:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material Message-ID: <1dd.2dcad207.2e974efd@aol.com> Aaron, I know that you want to put this particular topic behind all of us, and I certainly agree, and I don't want to incite any more flare-ups, etc., but since I've been away and have only today had an opportunity to catch up on the discussion, I would like to offer my views, based on personal experience. I think they are relevant and hope that you publish them. Copyright and patent laws, as well as the new so-called "intellectual property" restrictions, are designed, in short, to protect a creative and/or inventive process AND to insure that the creator and inventor doesn't lose revenue as a result of the product he or she brought to market. However, we all know that these laws are in dire need of update, and they certainly NEVER contemplated a mass distribution medium such as the Internet. But forgetting about the Internet, for just a moment, or any other moral or ethical considerations, those laws fail miserably because they cannot NOW or NEVER restrict or control one important thing: the contents of one's mind. Consider the following, real life examples: (1) A programmer who works for me, who signed a non-compete and non-disclosure agreement upon employment, is enjoined from sharing the basis of the fantastic streamlined mass mailing to mutual fund customers program that he designed. When he leaves, I can't erase the contents of his mind, nor can I even control the fact that he can adopt any sort of iteration of the same program, for another employer. (2) An author copyrights a book, has it published and it is put into the public domain. I read that book and decide to share the essential contents with my friends and colleagues. Whether I do it by phone, e-mail, or written letter, there is NOTHING to prevent me from sharing this information, and in fact, if I do it over time, I can virtually pass along the entire contents of the originally, so-called protected book. Now, more specifically to the point: (1) The "stolen" book in question, "Eastern Rockhounds....." provides extremely valuable information at a great price. I purchased it, read it, visited some of the sights, shared the sights with my friends and colleagues and even listed some of the sights on this forum. I didn't make any money off of these ventures, which I believe is a VERY important consideration. I was just sharing knowledge with interested hobbyists. What I think is deplorable, and certainly worth a mention, is that the SAME book, which lists for $9.95, is being sold in an upstate New York garnet quarry for $19.95, plus tax, and I think THAT action is much more objectionable than sharing information on a public forum, regardless of what the forum is. I guess my take is this: information should be readily available, to anyone, in any forum. This is America, after all. But I also believe that the capitalist roots of our success derive from someone having a product that someone else is willing to pay for. However, IF someone is making money off of someone else's time and effort, I have a very strong objection to that. Sorry to say that it all boils down to the money, but hey, nothing in life is free (except air and possibly some as yet undiscovered rock-collecting sites). I also leave my rockhound colleagues with some food for thought: (1) Edison invented electricity, and yet we pay exorbitant amounts of money to get this utility. Did the copyright and patent laws fail us at some point? OR, is it again, all about the money? (2) When you buy a CD or DVD for $19.95, are you paying for the manufacturing and distribution costs, or the cost of the creativity behind that particular medium? If you think you're paying for (let's say Britney Spears' creativity) CD at $19.95, is her creativity any less diminished when the same CD goes on sale for $12.95, at Virgin Records? Finally, Aaron, I APPLAUD your efforts as a site-moderator. You did an awesome job with this particular topic. You let the threads unfold, as written, but you were quick to jump in when the talk become derogatory and pejorative and even personal. And's that how it should be. To enjoy any kind of Internet forum, there should be freedom of expression and even discussion that might veer slightly from the stated topic, but in no way shape or form should there be any personal attacks in a professional forum. Great Job, Aaron. Regards, Tom Russell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From cjkuo at verizon.net Thu Oct 7 20:43:47 2004 From: cjkuo at verizon.net (Jimmy Kuo) Date: Thu Oct 7 20:45:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material References: <1dd.2dcad207.2e974efd@aol.com> Message-ID: <006101c4ace9$04e41370$0b02a8c0@LOSJKUOLT2> > (2) An author copyrights a book, has it published and it is put into the > public domain. I read that book and decide to share the essential contents > with my friends and colleagues. Whether I do it by phone, e-mail, or written > letter, there is NOTHING to prevent me from sharing this information, and in > fact, if I do it over time, I can virtually pass along the entire contents of the > originally, so-called protected book. This highlights a problem of non-lawyers talking about law. "Public domain" has a specific meaning in copyright law. If a work has been put in the public domain, it is no longer a copyright protected book. Also-not-a-lawyer, but I play one in the closet. Jimmy From LarryRush at worldnet.att.net Thu Oct 7 13:55:26 2004 From: LarryRush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Fri Oct 8 07:29:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Index of refraction liquids References: <5.1.0.14.0.20041005143613.00a595d0@mailhost.geo.vu.nl> <4164C62E.5F8E@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000201c4ad42$c0afa5c0$65904c0c@fekib> Some time ago, there was a discussion on the I of R liquids. Without opening that discussion back up, would anyone who has information on either how to buy or make a set please contact me off-list. Many thanks..............Larry Rush --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny at lrream.com Fri Oct 8 13:06:04 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Fri Oct 8 13:05:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Technical books for free Message-ID: <7BF0042A-1965-11D9-B4BC-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi all, I've got three books to get rid of, but these are not of much use to most people on the list. They are technical and of most use to those who do mineral analysis and the mineral exploration/mining engineer or geologist. They are free to those who can use them, just pay $2.50 each shipping. Electron Microprobe Analysis, second edition, by S.J.B. Reed, 1997; paper, 326 pages on all the dry reading on the subject. Applied Mineral Inventory Estimation, by Alastair J. Sinclair and Garston H. Blackwell, 2002; hardcover, 381 pages, a must have book for those who need to estimate the resources and reserves in their ore deposit. The Geochemistry of Gold and Its Deposits by R. W. Boyle, 1979, Bull. 280, Geological Survey of Canada, 584 pages. All are like new. Regards, Lanny From hbarwood at troyst.edu Fri Oct 8 13:24:29 2004 From: hbarwood at troyst.edu (Henry Barwood) Date: Fri Oct 8 13:21:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Technical books for free In-Reply-To: <7BF0042A-1965-11D9-B4BC-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: Hi Lanny, I could use the book on microprobe analysis. Henry Henry Barwood Associate Professor of Science, Earth Science Department of Math and Physics MSCX 312G Troy State University Troy, Alabama 36082 hbarwood@troyst.edu -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Lanny Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 3:06 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com : A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Technical books for free Hi all, I've got three books to get rid of, but these are not of much use to most people on the list. They are technical and of most use to those who do mineral analysis and the mineral exploration/mining engineer or geologist. They are free to those who can use them, just pay $2.50 each shipping. Electron Microprobe Analysis, second edition, by S.J.B. Reed, 1997; paper, 326 pages on all the dry reading on the subject. Applied Mineral Inventory Estimation, by Alastair J. Sinclair and Garston H. Blackwell, 2002; hardcover, 381 pages, a must have book for those who need to estimate the resources and reserves in their ore deposit. The Geochemistry of Gold and Its Deposits by R. W. Boyle, 1979, Bull. 280, Geological Survey of Canada, 584 pages. All are like new. Regards, Lanny _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From ItalianMinerals at libero.it Fri Oct 8 13:34:18 2004 From: ItalianMinerals at libero.it (Italian Minerals) Date: Fri Oct 8 13:35:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD - Ebay auctions - last 12 hours ! Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041008223106.021acbe8@popmail.libero.it> Hi there ! last 12 hours to grab nice crystallized specimen ! goto : http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQgotopageZ1QQsassZitalianmineralsQQsosortorderZ1QQsosortpropertyZ1 Visit also www.italianminerals.com regards, Alessandro ============================== Quality minerals from Italy and worldwide Italian Minerals http://www.italianminerals.com ============================== --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Fri Oct 8 13:40:42 2004 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Fri Oct 8 13:41:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Technical books for free In-Reply-To: <7BF0042A-1965-11D9-B4BC-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: Hi Lanny, I'd like the book about geochemistry of gold! Contact me off list at Mauricedegraaf@xs4all.nl Maurice -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Lanny Sent: 08 October 2004 22:06 To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com : A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Technical books for free Hi all, I've got three books to get rid of, but these are not of much use to most people on the list. They are technical and of most use to those who do mineral analysis and the mineral exploration/mining engineer or geologist. They are free to those who can use them, just pay $2.50 each shipping. Electron Microprobe Analysis, second edition, by S.J.B. Reed, 1997; paper, 326 pages on all the dry reading on the subject. Applied Mineral Inventory Estimation, by Alastair J. Sinclair and Garston H. Blackwell, 2002; hardcover, 381 pages, a must have book for those who need to estimate the resources and reserves in their ore deposit. The Geochemistry of Gold and Its Deposits by R. W. Boyle, 1979, Bull. 280, Geological Survey of Canada, 584 pages. All are like new. Regards, Lanny _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Oct 8 16:19:46 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Oct 8 16:07:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Index of refraction liquids References: <5.1.0.14.0.20041005143613.00a595d0@mailhost.geo.vu.nl> <4164C62E.5F8E@Tomaszewski.net> <000201c4ad42$c0afa5c0$65904c0c@fekib> Message-ID: <41671D95.2D51@Tomaszewski.net> Lawrence Rush wrote: > > Some time ago, there was a discussion on the I of R liquids. Without opening that discussion back up, would anyone who has information on either how to buy or make a set please contact me off-list. > > Many thanks..............Larry Rush Larry, Pull your big CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics off your bookshelf and look up Index of Refraction in the Index. You will find enough data so you can make any set you want, or at least identify what you need to buy to make a set. I suspect Edmund Scientific has a set, but I can't find my catalog to confirm. Kreigh From iceage at adelphia.net Fri Oct 8 19:41:16 2004 From: iceage at adelphia.net (Patrick M. Harvey) Date: Fri Oct 8 16:35:50 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Need a good book for Kentucky In-Reply-To: <7BF0042A-1965-11D9-B4BC-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> References: <7BF0042A-1965-11D9-B4BC-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20041008192808.02d2f2d0@mail.adelphia.net> Hello all, Does anyone know of a good book(s) on the Geology and/or Paleontology of Kentucky? I've googled till I was gaga and found nothing worth buying. Even inter-library loan is OK, photocopies are cheap. I hate to copy, but some stuff is just impossible to get otherwise. I support authors as best I can. Any help would get you a few Echinoids from Florida. Straight from Yankeetown, at the mouth of the Withlacoochie River ;*) Thanks for the help, Patrick - still amazed at the roadcuts here in Georgetown... Patrick M. Harvey NAR 81752 L2 Bluegrass Rocketry Society NAR# 657 - Advisor Visit the BluesRockS website: www.bluesrocks.org Kentucky TARC teams welcome! From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Oct 8 17:35:00 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Oct 8 17:22:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Theft of copyrighted material References: <1dd.2dcad207.2e974efd@aol.com> Message-ID: <41672F2D.16BA@Tomaszewski.net> TomE61@aol.com wrote: > I also leave my rockhound colleagues with some food for thought: > > (1) Edison invented electricity, and yet we pay exorbitant amounts of > money to get this utility. Did the copyright and patent laws fail us at some > point? OR, is it again, all about the money? Ummm, Edison did not 'invent' electricity. He did invent the first practical light bulb, but his DC based distribution system was soon replaced by the more practical AC system we use today. It takes a lot of investment to generate electricity, and a lot more to distribute it to where it will be used. This is true even if your power source is "free" as in wind turbines. Give some thought to how much it would cost to string wire to a remote mine location (there, its on topic), and to maintain it. The people who invest in power plants and distribution systems expect to make a return on their investment. Most of what you pay for electricity is simply to cover the costs of making and distributing it reliably; power companies do not make a high rate of return. Kreigh From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Fri Oct 8 18:03:48 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Fri Oct 8 18:04:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Need a good book for Kentucky References: <7BF0042A-1965-11D9-B4BC-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.0.3.0.2.20041008192808.02d2f2d0@mail.adelphia.net> Message-ID: <004301c4ad9b$dbc03740$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Did you try the Kentucky Geological Survey web site? They have a number of publications. There is a summary book called something like the Rocks and Minerals of Kentucky by Warren Anderson. There is no comprehensive book on paleontology at this time. The last was written in 1931. A new one is in the planning stages, but don't hold your breath - its a few years away. The USGS Professional Paper 1066 series covers middle and some upper Ordovician faunas. Bill Schaub wrote a guide to KY collecting localities about 8 years ago. He moved to California right after he published it, books are hard to get because he never seemed to be overly enthusiastically about selling them. I've heard he's had them at the Tucson show in the past. If you have any questions about specific Kentucky localities, e-mail directly. Alan Goldstein ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick M. Harvey" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 10:41 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Need a good book for Kentucky > Hello all, > > Does anyone know of a good book(s) on the Geology and/or Paleontology of > Kentucky? I've googled till I was gaga and found nothing worth buying. > Even inter-library loan is OK, photocopies are cheap. I hate to copy, but > some stuff is just impossible to get otherwise. I support authors as best > I can. > > Any help would get you a few Echinoids from Florida. Straight from > Yankeetown, at the mouth of the Withlacoochie River ;*) > > Thanks for the help, > > Patrick - still amazed at the roadcuts here in Georgetown... > > > Patrick M. Harvey > NAR 81752 L2 > Bluegrass Rocketry Society NAR# 657 - Advisor > Visit the BluesRockS website: > www.bluesrocks.org > Kentucky TARC teams welcome! > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From jonee at epix.net Fri Oct 8 21:43:24 2004 From: jonee at epix.net (E. L. Jones) Date: Fri Oct 8 21:43:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pa Earth Science Society Field Trip to West Chester Sat ? Message-ID: <41676C6C.1060700@epix.net> My newsletter didn't arrive and I need name and directions to our field trip location this morning(Sat) in West Chester Pennsylvania. Are there any list members who would know? I know many of us are cross connected. Sorry for the OT Thanks, Elton From iceage at adelphia.net Sat Oct 9 01:51:36 2004 From: iceage at adelphia.net (Patrick M. Harvey) Date: Fri Oct 8 22:46:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Need a good book for Kentucky In-Reply-To: <004301c4ad9b$dbc03740$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> References: <7BF0042A-1965-11D9-B4BC-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.0.3.0.2.20041008192808.02d2f2d0@mail.adelphia.net> <004301c4ad9b$dbc03740$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20041009014352.02d2aa80@mail.adelphia.net> Thanks Alan, Yes, I checked out the KGS pamphlets. I was hoping there is a more comprehensive reference book. Thanks for the lead on Mr. Schaub's book; I had not heard of that one. I hoped to find a good reference at the fair we had last weekend, but no luck. Lots of stuff on Tuscon, but nothing on local stuff. I'll keep looking. Patrick At 06:03 PM 10/8/04, you wrote: >Did you try the Kentucky Geological Survey web site? They have a number of >publications. There is a summary book called something like the Rocks and >Minerals of Kentucky by Warren Anderson. There is no comprehensive book on >paleontology at this time. The last was written in 1931. A new one is in >the planning stages, but don't hold your breath - its a few years away. >The USGS Professional Paper 1066 series covers middle and some upper >Ordovician faunas. > >Bill Schaub wrote a guide to KY collecting localities about 8 years ago. >He moved to California right after he published it, books are hard to get >because he never seemed to be overly enthusiastically about selling them. >I've heard he's had them at the Tucson show in the past. > >If you have any questions about specific Kentucky localities, e-mail directly. > >Alan Goldstein > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick M. Harvey" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 10:41 PM >Subject: [Rockhounds] Need a good book for Kentucky > > >>Hello all, >> >>Does anyone know of a good book(s) on the Geology and/or Paleontology of >>Kentucky? I've googled till I was gaga and found nothing worth buying. >>Even inter-library loan is OK, photocopies are cheap. I hate to copy, >>but some stuff is just impossible to get otherwise. I support authors as >>best I can. >> >>Any help would get you a few Echinoids from Florida. Straight from >>Yankeetown, at the mouth of the Withlacoochie River ;*) >> >>Thanks for the help, >> >>Patrick - still amazed at the roadcuts here in Georgetown... >> >> >>Patrick M. Harvey >>NAR 81752 L2 >>Bluegrass Rocketry Society NAR# 657 - Advisor >>Visit the BluesRockS website: >>www.bluesrocks.org >>Kentucky TARC teams welcome! >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Patrick M. Harvey NAR 81752 L2 Bluegrass Rocketry Society NAR# 657 - Advisor Visit the BluesRockS website: www.bluesrocks.org Kentucky TARC teams welcome! From markhp at xs4all.nl Sat Oct 9 02:58:31 2004 From: markhp at xs4all.nl (Mark Holtkamp) Date: Sat Oct 9 03:00:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] new website Message-ID: <4167B647.9000005@xs4all.nl> Hi group, I have recently put my new website on line at www.smorf.nl. It shows crystal drawings in a java applet. You can rotate the crystals and change their display settings. At the moment there are about 500 crystals online, including 120 twins. Most are based on drawings in Goldschmidt's "Atlas der Krystallformen". I'd appreciate your comments or suggestions. Cheers, Mark Mark Holtkamp markhp@xs4all.nl www.smorf.nl From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Oct 9 07:11:42 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Oct 9 07:11:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] new website In-Reply-To: <4167B647.9000005@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Splendid, great proramming Mark ! If nitpicking is allowed, my only comment would have to be that one of the textures creates the illusion of striation where in reality there is none (or in a different direction). Especially the last one. Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Mark Holtkamp Verzonden: zaterdag 9 oktober 2004 11:59 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] new website Hi group, I have recently put my new website on line at www.smorf.nl. It shows crystal drawings in a java applet. You can rotate the crystals and change their display settings. At the moment there are about 500 crystals online, including 120 twins. Most are based on drawings in Goldschmidt's "Atlas der Krystallformen". I'd appreciate your comments or suggestions. Cheers, Mark Mark Holtkamp markhp@xs4all.nl www.smorf.nl _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From markhp at xs4all.nl Sat Oct 9 07:38:29 2004 From: markhp at xs4all.nl (Mark Holtkamp) Date: Sat Oct 9 07:38:57 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] new website In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4167F7E5.3040105@xs4all.nl> Hi Axel, Thanks! Your nitpicking is very welcome :-) You're right about the textures, the striation is not intended. I'll remove or replace them. greetings, Mark. Axel Emmermann wrote: > Splendid, great proramming Mark ! > If nitpicking is allowed, my only comment would have to be that one of the > textures creates the illusion of striation where in reality there is none > (or in a different direction). > Especially the last one. > > Cheers > > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Mark Holtkamp > Verzonden: zaterdag 9 oktober 2004 11:59 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] new website > > > Hi group, > > I have recently put my new website on line at www.smorf.nl. > It shows crystal drawings in a java applet. You can rotate the > crystals and change their display settings. > At the moment there are about 500 crystals online, including > 120 twins. Most are based on drawings in Goldschmidt's "Atlas > der Krystallformen". > I'd appreciate your comments or suggestions. > > Cheers, > > Mark > > Mark Holtkamp > markhp@xs4all.nl > www.smorf.nl > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From LarryRush at worldnet.att.net Sat Oct 9 07:57:29 2004 From: LarryRush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sat Oct 9 08:00:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] new website References: <4167B647.9000005@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <008201c4ae10$4dc0b080$0d914c0c@fekib> An excellent learning tool!! I would like to hear Peter Richards take (are you there, Pete?) on how this compares to SHAPE. The only suggestion I would make is to be able to stop the rotation, and still see the Miller indices. I couldn't seem to do that. Larry Rush ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Holtkamp To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 5:58 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] new website Hi group, I have recently put my new website on line at www.smorf.nl. It shows crystal drawings in a java applet. You can rotate the crystals and change their display settings. At the moment there are about 500 crystals online, including 120 twins. Most are based on drawings in Goldschmidt's "Atlas der Krystallformen". I'd appreciate your comments or suggestions. Cheers, Mark Mark Holtkamp markhp@xs4all.nl www.smorf.nl _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From ahelms at pdx.edu Sat Oct 9 09:08:50 2004 From: ahelms at pdx.edu (ahelms@pdx.edu) Date: Sat Oct 9 09:09:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Member Message-ID: <1097338130.41680d123d7d8@webmail.pdx.edu> Hello Everyone, Hi my name is Alicia and I am new to the rockhound group. I've actually been reading the emails for about a month now and realized I should probably introduce myself. I'm a budding geology undergraduate at Portland State University , but not sure what field I want to go into. I've had a passion for geology since I was a little girl. My Dad and I would go to rock and mineral shows and he would help me polish the rocks I found. Not until two years ago did I realize that I needed to go into geology. I had been playing around with different majors, took a class in geology, and decided I needed to switch majors. I absolutely love everything about it (except the math). Recently, my fiance and I have been working on a fossil excavation in Eastern oregon. There is a small area of plant fossils we have found in mudstone and sandstone, in place. So far we have found a lot of samples and it's been thrilling. As an undergraduate, it is really exciting to be involved in something like this when most don't get the chance. Anyway, my favorite mineral is hematite and my favorite rock is .... quite a few. Hope all of you enjoyed my little intro and I look forward to having some conversations with you. Talk to You Soon, Alicia Helms Portland State University From lanny at lrream.com Sat Oct 9 09:29:56 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sat Oct 9 09:28:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Technical books for free In-Reply-To: <7BF0042A-1965-11D9-B4BC-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> References: <7BF0042A-1965-11D9-B4BC-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <74DBEA3C-1A10-11D9-B4BC-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Thanks everyone, the books are all spoken for. Sorry there aren't more than one copy each. Lanny On Oct 8, 2004, at 1:06 PM, Lanny wrote: > Hi all, > > I've got three books to get rid of, but these are not of much use to > most people on the list. They are technical and of most use to those > who do mineral analysis and the mineral exploration/mining engineer or > geologist. They are free to those who can use them, just pay $2.50 > each shipping. > > Electron Microprobe Analysis, second edition, by S.J.B. Reed, 1997; > paper, 326 pages on all the dry reading on the subject. > > Applied Mineral Inventory Estimation, by Alastair J. Sinclair and > Garston H. Blackwell, 2002; hardcover, 381 pages, a must have book for > those who need to estimate the resources and reserves in their ore > deposit. > > The Geochemistry of Gold and Its Deposits by R. W. Boyle, 1979, Bull. > 280, Geological Survey of Canada, 584 pages. > > All are like new. > > Regards, > > Lanny > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From bobl at peaktopeak.com Sat Oct 9 10:29:50 2004 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Sat Oct 9 10:29:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] new website In-Reply-To: <4167B647.9000005@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Hi Mark, That is really cool!!!!! I love it... it's educational and fun to play with, too. :-) I also have a suggestion: When I click on the "All 48 Crystal Forms" link, then scroll down in the right frame to the "48 faces" section and click on the "Hexoctahedron" link, the whole page (including the right frame) gets updated. So if I want to look at the "24 faces" section, I have to scroll down again. Can you make it so the right frame doesn't get updated when clicking on links? Only the Java applet (crystal form) should be updated when clicking on the links. Thanks for the great work, Mark! I'm going to tell all of my club members about it. Bob Loeffler Field Trip Chairman and webmaster North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) http://www.peaktopeak.com/njeffco/index.php Dealer Chairman and Webmaster Denver Gem and Mineral Show http://www.denvermineralshow.com Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: http://www.peaktopeak.com/colorado/index.php -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Mark Holtkamp Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 3:59 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] new website Hi group, I have recently put my new website on line at www.smorf.nl. It shows crystal drawings in a java applet. You can rotate the crystals and change their display settings. At the moment there are about 500 crystals online, including 120 twins. Most are based on drawings in Goldschmidt's "Atlas der Krystallformen". I'd appreciate your comments or suggestions. Cheers, Mark Mark Holtkamp markhp@xs4all.nl www.smorf.nl _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From markhp at xs4all.nl Sat Oct 9 15:59:07 2004 From: markhp at xs4all.nl (Mark Holtkamp) Date: Sat Oct 9 15:59:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] new website In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41686D3B.6020508@xs4all.nl> Thanks Bob! I fixed the '48 Crystal Forms' page, it should behave properly now. cheers, Mark. Bob Loeffler wrote: > Hi Mark, > > That is really cool!!!!! I love it... it's educational and fun to play > with, too. :-) > > I also have a suggestion: When I click on the "All 48 Crystal Forms" link, > then scroll down in the right frame to the "48 faces" section and click on > the "Hexoctahedron" link, the whole page (including the right frame) gets > updated. So if I want to look at the "24 faces" section, I have to scroll > down again. Can you make it so the right frame doesn't get updated when > clicking on links? Only the Java applet (crystal form) should be updated > when clicking on the links. > > Thanks for the great work, Mark! I'm going to tell all of my club members > about it. > > Bob Loeffler > Field Trip Chairman and webmaster > North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) > http://www.peaktopeak.com/njeffco/index.php > > Dealer Chairman and Webmaster > Denver Gem and Mineral Show > http://www.denvermineralshow.com > > Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: > http://www.peaktopeak.com/colorado/index.php > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Mark Holtkamp > Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 3:59 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: [Rockhounds] new website > > > Hi group, > > I have recently put my new website on line at www.smorf.nl. > It shows crystal drawings in a java applet. You can rotate the > crystals and change their display settings. > At the moment there are about 500 crystals online, including > 120 twins. Most are based on drawings in Goldschmidt's "Atlas > der Krystallformen". > I'd appreciate your comments or suggestions. > > Cheers, > > Mark > > Mark Holtkamp > markhp@xs4all.nl > www.smorf.nl > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From markhp at xs4all.nl Sat Oct 9 16:02:41 2004 From: markhp at xs4all.nl (Mark Holtkamp) Date: Sat Oct 9 16:03:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] new website In-Reply-To: <008201c4ae10$4dc0b080$0d914c0c@fekib> References: <4167B647.9000005@xs4all.nl> <008201c4ae10$4dc0b080$0d914c0c@fekib> Message-ID: <41686E11.4070809@xs4all.nl> Hi Larry, Thank you for your suggestion and your comments :-) I added (yet) another display settings toggle according to your suggestion. Greetings, mark. Lawrence Rush wrote: > An excellent learning tool!! I would like to hear Peter Richards take (are you there, Pete?) on how this compares to SHAPE. The only suggestion I would make is to be able to stop the rotation, and still see the Miller indices. I couldn't seem to do that. > > Larry Rush > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mark Holtkamp > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 5:58 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] new website > > > Hi group, > > I have recently put my new website on line at www.smorf.nl. > It shows crystal drawings in a java applet. You can rotate the > crystals and change their display settings. > At the moment there are about 500 crystals online, including > 120 twins. Most are based on drawings in Goldschmidt's "Atlas > der Krystallformen". > I'd appreciate your comments or suggestions. > > Cheers, > > Mark > > Mark Holtkamp > markhp@xs4all.nl > www.smorf.nl > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From arf at mc.net Sat Oct 9 17:46:19 2004 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Sat Oct 9 17:46:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Quartz References: <061d01c45e5a$592fd0f0$405c70d1@S0033035959> <40E339CC.34C6@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <028401c4ae62$91c80790$6d5f70d1@S0033035959> I found a golfball sized piece of (I think) green quartz in the garden today but browsing my references I only find one casual reference to green quartz. Seems like all the other colors of quartz have names but little is said about green. Obviously, not common but it is rare enough to be valuable? If so, why doesn't it have a name? It is not clear, BTW but cloudy like rose or cloudy quartz. I just dopped a pice for a cab but don't expect much as the color is quite pale. js PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sat Oct 9 19:23:06 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sat Oct 9 19:17:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Quartz References: <061d01c45e5a$592fd0f0$405c70d1@S0033035959><40E339CC.34C6@Tomaszewski.net> <028401c4ae62$91c80790$6d5f70d1@S0033035959> Message-ID: <008001c4ae70$15aac5e0$04a6490c@pete> You're right, Jack, green quartz is just not all that common, and such as is found, is usually cloudy. "Prase" is a traditional name for green quartz, but you just don't see the name or the material used that much. Classically, prase is supposed to be "leek-green", and is colored by inclusions of actinolite. But quartz can also be colored green by a variety of inclusions of green, iron-containing minerals, such chlorite, and one often sees dealers selling crystals of quartz containing green, cloudy inclusions. And then, agate with green inclusions is what we call moss agate or dendritic agate. Pete Modreski ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Schmidling" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 6:46 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Quartz > I found a golfball sized piece of (I think) green quartz in the garden today > but browsing my references I only find one casual reference to green quartz. > > Seems like all the other colors of quartz have names but little is said > about green. Obviously, not common but it is rare enough to be valuable? > If so, why doesn't it have a name? > > It is not clear, BTW but cloudy like rose or cloudy quartz. I just dopped a > pice for a cab but don't expect much as the color is quite pale. > > js > > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sat Oct 9 16:52:41 2004 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sat Oct 9 21:55:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Member References: <1097338130.41680d123d7d8@webmail.pdx.edu> Message-ID: <002301c4ae5b$15c1dce0$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Welcome Alicia! My wife, Julie, and I moved to northern Idaho from PDX (actually, Vancouver) a year and a half ago. I miss the zeolites! I too was a geology major until the math got be bumfoozled and I ended up in graphics. Feel free to contact me off list for some good local sites. John Siebel john@pandemoniumgraphics.com www.pandemoniumgraphics.com ----- Original Message ----- From: > Hi my name is Alicia and I am new to the rockhound group. From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Oct 10 06:43:59 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Oct 10 06:44:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Quartz In-Reply-To: <028401c4ae62$91c80790$6d5f70d1@S0033035959> Message-ID: Hi Jack, look for prase on google (in combination with quarts) or on Mindat: http://www.mindat.org/min-6703.html If it's a crystal you could label it "Quartz, var.: prase". When massive I'd name it Quartz, var.: chalcedony, subvar.: prase ;-))) Now: is it quartz? Have you tried a hardness test? Are there any conchoidal cleavages visible on the specimen? Anoter poss.: moss agate... is the moss on or in the specimen? (LOL) Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jack Schmidling Verzonden: zondag 10 oktober 2004 2:46 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Green Quartz I found a golfball sized piece of (I think) green quartz in the garden today but browsing my references I only find one casual reference to green quartz. Seems like all the other colors of quartz have names but little is said about green. Obviously, not common but it is rare enough to be valuable? If so, why doesn't it have a name? It is not clear, BTW but cloudy like rose or cloudy quartz. I just dopped a pice for a cab but don't expect much as the color is quite pale. js PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sun Oct 10 07:22:52 2004 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sun Oct 10 07:23:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Quartz In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Jack, Especially for you I added a picture of a green quartz from Sinerechenskoye to my site.:-) The Quartz is mostly colored by actinolite (?) inclusions. See: http://maurice.strahlen.org/primorski/primorski.htm#sinerechenskoye (click on the image to get a better view) Cheers, Maurice -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jack Schmidling Verzonden: zondag 10 oktober 2004 2:46 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Green Quartz I found a golfball sized piece of (I think) green quartz in the garden today but browsing my references I only find one casual reference to green quartz. Seems like all the other colors of quartz have names but little is said about green. Obviously, not common but it is rare enough to be valuable? If so, why doesn't it have a name? It is not clear, BTW but cloudy like rose or cloudy quartz. I just dopped a pice for a cab but don't expect much as the color is quite pale. js PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sun Oct 10 08:27:25 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sun Oct 10 08:21:25 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Quartz References: Message-ID: <002701c4aedd$ab25c080$cfa3490c@pete> There also exists, artificially produced green transparent quartz, which can be prepared by heat treatment of certain types of amethyst--I believe that amethyst which does not develop a citrine color on heat treatment, may become green. It's not a real attractive, vibrant green, more a subdued, slight muddy green, and I guess has never been extremely popular as a gemstone, because the color is not spectacular, and it is recognizable as artifical, because there is no natural green quartz of this color. One gem book refers to treated gemmy quartz of this color as "prasiolite". I'm pretty sure that there is also totally synthetic, green quartz. And to comment on Axel's remark said in humor, > Anoter poss.: moss agate... is the moss on or in the specimen? (LOL) > Cheers > Axel One variety of cryptocrystalline quartz I've collected, might be called "cow-dung agate". (Quite in contrast to "cow-dung bombs", which are a commonly referred to type of lava bomb.) Down near Apache Creek in extreme western New Mexico, "ages ago" on a field trip with the Albuquerque mineral club we collected agate and pink-tinted "chalcedony roses". It seemed like almost every "chalcedony rose" that I picked up, had the remains of dried cow droppings stuck to it--so much that I was almost becoming convinced that the wandering range cattle must intentionally pick them out as targets. I've since tried to go back to the area; either I've never quite gone to the right spot (the probable case), or, as likely, the area has been heavily collected over the decades so that agate nodules are nowhere as abundant lying about the surface, as they once were. Pete Modreski From arf at mc.net Sun Oct 10 14:07:48 2004 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Sun Oct 10 14:14:41 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Quartz References: Message-ID: <010601c4af0e$1cb84da0$315e70d1@S0033035959> From: "Maurice de Graaf" > See: > http://maurice.strahlen.org/primorski/primorski.htm#sinerechenskoye (click > on the image to get a better view) Not sure what image you are referring to. js PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sun Oct 10 14:20:30 2004 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sun Oct 10 14:20:54 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Quartz In-Reply-To: <010601c4af0e$1cb84da0$315e70d1@S0033035959> Message-ID: Under the entry Sinerechenskoye is only one picture. It is a green Quartz from this locality. Sinerechenskoye is a mineral locality not far and very similar to Dalnegorsk. Cheers, Maurice -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Jack Schmidling Sent: 10 October 2004 23:08 To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Green Quartz From: "Maurice de Graaf" > See: > http://maurice.strahlen.org/primorski/primorski.htm#sinerechenskoye (click > on the image to get a better view) Not sure what image you are referring to. js PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From ahelms at pdx.edu Sun Oct 10 14:46:53 2004 From: ahelms at pdx.edu (ahelms@pdx.edu) Date: Sun Oct 10 14:47:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Member In-Reply-To: <002301c4ae5b$15c1dce0$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> References: <1097338130.41680d123d7d8@webmail.pdx.edu> <002301c4ae5b$15c1dce0$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <1097444813.4169adcd9603e@webmail.pdx.edu> Thanks John, I'll keep that in mind about the local sites. Alicia Quoting John Siebel : > Welcome Alicia! > > My wife, Julie, and I moved to northern Idaho from PDX (actually, Vancouver) > a year and a half ago. I miss the zeolites! I too was a geology major until > the math got be bumfoozled and I ended up in graphics. Feel free to contact > me off list for some good local sites. > > John Siebel > john@pandemoniumgraphics.com > www.pandemoniumgraphics.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > > Hi my name is Alicia and I am new to the rockhound group. > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sun Oct 10 16:42:01 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sun Oct 10 16:37:05 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Member References: <1097338130.41680d123d7d8@webmail.pdx.edu> Message-ID: <001a01c4af22$ce2cae00$b0a5490c@pete> Dear Alicia, new Rockhounds List person, For some reason (maybe there's a reason?), it seems like people from Oregon seem to be unusually well represented in this group. Or maybe they're just more vocal (like to write more often), but it seems that when people talk here about collecting sites, it's "more often than not" (no scientific sampling here), from Oregon. For most of the other states, people mostly seem to just ask about collecting sites when they're going to be passing through there on a trip; but Oregon, people here seem always to be writing about the collecting sites for thundereggs, petrified wood, etc., etc. I guess it must be the Rockhound mecca (or for online rockhounds, at any rate). I mean, there aren't even all THAT many people in Oregon in total, are there? Well, you must have a lot of good company out there, anyway. sincerely (and welcome again to this List), Pete Modreski, Denver CO From dawnmfredricks at msn.com Sun Oct 10 22:16:17 2004 From: dawnmfredricks at msn.com (Dawn M. Fredricks) Date: Sun Oct 10 22:17:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE:New Member/Oregon Message-ID: You know, I'd never really noticed it myself until someone pointed it out.  There seems to be a lot of us here in Oregon.  It could be because of how much it rains here and we get lonely in the fall and winter (sometimes even in the summer 'cause even in July is can be cold and wet) ;) We are lucky to have so much to collect here. I'd venture to say that if you look hard enough, you'd be able to find some great rocks almost anywhere in the state. There are more than a few clubs just in the Portland Metro area that are strong, I just wish there were more that offered field trips! Mt. Hood is probably the largest, and they do pretty good with the trips. I'm looking forward to the day when I'm able to get out on the week long trip. There is also a gold prospecting group here in town that I belong to. Some of the guys do pretty well, but most of us are "Weekend Prospectors". Welcome to the group! Dawn Fredricks Portland Oregon >For some reason (maybe there's a reason?), it seems like people from Oregon >seem to be unusually well represented in this group.  Or maybe they're just >more vocal (like to write more often), but it seems that when people talk >here about collecting sites, it's "more often than not" (no scientific --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From kahako at aloha.net Mon Oct 11 00:56:02 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Oct 11 00:28:05 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] gossan & a good book Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041010192823.040c2560@mail.aloha.net> Hi List, It may be a mistake to introduce two subjects at the same time, but lets see what happens: My husband, Bill, the astronomer and avid reader, is reading "Barren Lands, and Epic Search for Diamonds in the North American Arctic" by Kevin Krajick, for the second time. The first time he kept saying: "What's the difference between pyrope and almandine?" and "Can we find a picture of kinberlite?" Now he's saying: "We've got to go to Yellowknife!" (I agree, hopefully someday soon). But tonight he said, "What's gossan?" I replied that I thought it was related to metallics like pyrite, maybe a decomposed matrix, not sure... So I went to www.mindat.org and got nothing! I was really surprised that it wasn't there! So I googled and got http://www.brainydictionary.com/words/go/gossan170013.html, which helped, and sort of confirmed my hunch. So my messages to the list are: 1. "Barren Lands, and Epic Search for Diamonds in the North American Arctic" by Kevin Krajick is a good book. 2. Mindat.org is not infallible (but we know that; I was just surprised for it to fail in this case). 3. Brainydictionary.com is a valuable site for concise definitions of just about everything (emphasis on concise). 4. Yellowknife seems to us like a great destination, especially after having been to Broken Hill, NSW. Both are mining towns, and both are a looong way away from "normal" civilization. Aloha, Kitty From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Mon Oct 11 06:54:41 2004 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Mon Oct 11 06:55:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] gossan & a good book In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20041010192823.040c2560@mail.aloha.net> References: <6.1.2.0.0.20041010192823.040c2560@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <416A90A1.90009@tenforward.com> Hi Kitty and All, Just another reviewer throwing in his 5 cents worth, Barren Lands is a terrific read and should be available to most Library goers here in the U.S. I heartily recommend it. The best lesson, beyond geology that the book taught me was that we can be successful, wildly in fact, and a person can alienate everyone they love in the process. At what price success? Have a great day, John Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > Hi List, > > It may be a mistake to introduce two subjects at the same time, but > lets see what happens: > > My husband, Bill, the astronomer and avid reader, is reading "Barren > Lands, and Epic Search for Diamonds in the North American Arctic" by > Kevin Krajick, for the second time. The first time he kept saying: > "What's the difference between pyrope and almandine?" and "Can we find > a picture of kinberlite?" Now he's saying: "We've got to go to > Yellowknife!" (I agree, hopefully someday soon). > > But tonight he said, "What's gossan?" I replied that I thought it was > related to metallics like pyrite, maybe a decomposed matrix, not sure... > > So I went to www.mindat.org and got nothing! I was really surprised > that it wasn't there! > > So I googled and got > http://www.brainydictionary.com/words/go/gossan170013.html, which > helped, and sort of confirmed my hunch. > > So my messages to the list are: > > 1. "Barren Lands, and Epic Search for Diamonds in the North American > Arctic" by Kevin Krajick is a good book. > 2. Mindat.org is not infallible (but we know that; I was just > surprised for it to fail in this case). > 3. Brainydictionary.com is a valuable site for concise definitions of > just about everything (emphasis on concise). > 4. Yellowknife seems to us like a great destination, especially after > having been to Broken Hill, NSW. Both are mining towns, and both are > a looong way away from "normal" civilization. > > Aloha, Kitty > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From morningstar at att.net Mon Oct 11 07:04:13 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Mon Oct 11 07:04:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] gossan & a good book Message-ID: <101120041404.17712.416A92DD0008C52F0000453021587667559D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Hi Kitty! Well, I think we can try to walk and chew gum at the same time: > 2. Mindat.org is not infallible (but we know that; I was just surprised > for it to fail in this case). Well I'm glad more people are realizing that. It is a website, just like any other website, and is only as good as what is put into it. > 3. Brainydictionary.com is a valuable site for concise definitions of just > about everything (emphasis on concise). Their definition was OK, but perhaps too concise; a gossan is an exposed, oxidized portion of a mineral vein, especially a rust-colored outcrop of iron ore; sometimes this is described as a "cap" in association with sulfide ores. You will see terms like "limonitic gossan" or "rotted gossan" used. I'm not a gossan expert, and I can only say that the gossan matrices I've seen are generally crumbly or otherwise not at all tough nor compact; they often have plenty of pores, pockets, and cavities containing interesting secondary minerals. (I haven't had geology yet, I start that next semester, so by then I'll have the proper terminology for these things). I'm sure someone like Pete can provide an even more detailed definition. You probably have some of the commmon hemimorphite on matrix from Mexico; if I'm not mistaken, that matrix is a gossan (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, because I would then need to clarify in my own mind what a gossan matrix is). Best, Don From mosasaur47 at msn.com Mon Oct 11 07:18:50 2004 From: mosasaur47 at msn.com (Kenneth Quinn) Date: Mon Oct 11 07:21:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] gossan & a good book References: <101120041404.17712.416A92DD0008C52F0000453021587667559D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: > > Their definition was OK, but perhaps too concise; a gossan is an > > exposed, oxidized portion of a mineral vein, I would use the term "deposit" instead of "vein". > compact; they often have plenty of pores, pockets, and cavities containing > interesting secondary minerals. > (I haven't had geology yet, I start that next semester, so by then I'll > have the proper terminology for > these things). "Vug" is a good term to use but "pocket" and "cavity" are perfectly legitimate terms also. "Pore" would refer to a microscopic or near-microscopic void. >I'm sure someone like Pete can provide an even more detailed definition. You probably have some > of the commmon hemimorphite on matrix from Mexico; if I'm not mistaken, > that matrix is a gossan (and someone > please correct me if I'm wrong, because I would then need to clarify in my > own mind what a gossan matrix is). >> I think you are 100% correct on that. Gossans can be the source of great specimens, often having voids in which euhedral crystals can develop and being in the oxidized zone which produces secondary minerals. Kenneth Quinn From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Mon Oct 11 07:49:13 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Mon Oct 11 07:42:57 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] gossan & a good book References: <6.1.2.0.0.20041010192823.040c2560@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <001f01c4afa1$7a51e780$0ca5490c@pete> Kitty, I agree that Barren Lands is a really good book! Even aside from the story of the diamond discovery, I was quite fascinated by the account in the beginning of the book, about the search for the remote native copper desposits in the far north, known to the early native peoples. And mindat is a mineralogical database; you can't expect it to include geological terms that aren't minerals, and that's where "gossan" would fall. Of course, if one isn't sure of that to start with, then, one wouldn't necessarily know! But even a common dictionary would define "gossan". Although some gossans are rich in secondary minerals, which may be nicely crystallized, most are just oxidized rock composed of fine-grained iron oxide, plus residual quartz and any other insoluble minerals. They can rnage from yellow to orange to brown to black, soft and powdery to hard and glassy, and from porous and cavernous, to solid and dense. Mineralogically (everything has to be made of SOME mineral or minerals--sort of), they can be composed of goethite, or of its poorly crystalline or non-crystalline analogue which we call limonite, or a mixture with other iron oxide minerals (hematite, lepidocrocite), or iron oxides mixed with fine-grained quartz. Some (most) gossans have nothing left in them but iron and silica, but some may contain enough residual native gold to be valuable. Silica-rich iron oxide material found in the gossan environment around an ore deposit is called "jasperoid", and some jasperoids can also be rich in lead, zinc, copper, arsenic,and other metals even including silver and gold, but all in a very fine-grained, unidentifiable, dark brown, poorly crystalline form. And no one else here has yet quoted (so I will) the famous German mining saying about gossans: Ein eisener Hut, ist sehr gut. (An iron cap is very good--i.e., a good indication that rich ore deposits may lie beneath it.) Pete Modreski From herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be Mon Oct 11 07:46:45 2004 From: herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be (herwig pelckmans) Date: Mon Oct 11 07:49:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] gossan & a good book References: <6.1.2.0.0.20041010192823.040c2560@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <09f701c4afa1$21e88ae0$d97277d5@pandora.be> Hi Kitty & all, The definition for gossan as mentioned in the book "Geological nomenclature", pubblished by the Royal Dutch Geological & Mining Society of The Netherlands: GOSSAN : iron hat, ironstone (Australia). The oxidized, outcropping, cellular mass of limonite and gangue of aggregated sulphide deposits. In Dutch : ijzeren hoed, French : ch?peau the fer, German : eisener Hut (so actually the literal translation of iron hat in the other languages). Cheers, Herwig Herwig Pelckmans Worldwide Mineral Collector Cardijnstraat 12 B-3530 Helchteren Belgium Europe http://www.xlizd.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 9:56 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] gossan & a good book > Hi List, > > It may be a mistake to introduce two subjects at the same time, but lets > see what happens: > > My husband, Bill, the astronomer and avid reader, is reading "Barren Lands, > and Epic Search for Diamonds in the North American Arctic" by Kevin > Krajick, for the second time. The first time he kept saying: "What's the > difference between pyrope and almandine?" and "Can we find a picture of > kinberlite?" Now he's saying: "We've got to go to Yellowknife!" (I agree, > hopefully someday soon). > > But tonight he said, "What's gossan?" I replied that I thought it was > related to metallics like pyrite, maybe a decomposed matrix, not sure... > > So I went to www.mindat.org and got nothing! I was really surprised that > it wasn't there! > > So I googled and got > http://www.brainydictionary.com/words/go/gossan170013.html, which helped, > and sort of confirmed my hunch. > > So my messages to the list are: > > 1. "Barren Lands, and Epic Search for Diamonds in the North American > Arctic" by Kevin Krajick is a good book. > 2. Mindat.org is not infallible (but we know that; I was just surprised > for it to fail in this case). > 3. Brainydictionary.com is a valuable site for concise definitions of just > about everything (emphasis on concise). > 4. Yellowknife seems to us like a great destination, especially after > having been to Broken Hill, NSW. Both are mining towns, and both are a > looong way away from "normal" civilization. > > Aloha, Kitty > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From naturesemp at earthlink.net Mon Oct 11 12:55:31 2004 From: naturesemp at earthlink.net (Nature's Emporium) Date: Mon Oct 11 12:55:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Agate pestle and mortar Message-ID: <416AE533.2060203@earthlink.net> http://natures-emporium.com/agscpemo.html Agate pestle and mortar from Uruguay. We have a limited supply and when they are gone well they are gone. Most of these are send to the scientific communities in the EU. Gloria -- http://natures-emporium.com http://frontporchcoffee.com From murowchickj at umkc.edu Mon Oct 11 14:08:02 2004 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (J B Murowchick) Date: Mon Oct 11 14:08:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Index of refraction liquids In-Reply-To: <000201c4ad42$c0afa5c0$65904c0c@fekib> Message-ID: McCrone sells Cargille R.I. liquid sets, but they're not cheap. Check out http://www.mccrone.com. Jim Murowchick __________________________________________________________ Dr. James B. Murowchick Associate Professor Office: (816) 235-2979 Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall Fax: (816) 235-5535 University of Missouri-Kansas City E-mail: murowchickj@umkc.edu 5110 Rockhill Road Kansas City, MO 64110 on 10/7/04 3:55 PM, Lawrence Rush at LarryRush@worldnet.att.net wrote: > Some time ago, there was a discussion on the I of R liquids. Without opening > that discussion back up, would anyone who has information on either how to buy > or make a set please contact me off-list. > > Many thanks..............Larry Rush > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From murowchickj at umkc.edu Mon Oct 11 14:27:42 2004 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (J B Murowchick) Date: Mon Oct 11 14:27:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds]MSA website status? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Does anyone know if the Mineralogical Society of America's web site (www.minsocam.org) is down? I've been trying to get on for 2 days, and I keep getting the error message "A connection failure has occurred." I have no trouble connecting to other web sites. Obviously, I can't check with them directly, so I thought someone on the Rockhounds list might know. Thanks. Jim __________________________________________________________ Dr. James B. Murowchick Associate Professor Office: (816) 235-2979 Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall Fax: (816) 235-5535 University of Missouri-Kansas City E-mail: murowchickj@umkc.edu 5110 Rockhill Road Kansas City, MO 64110 From william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu Mon Oct 11 14:49:41 2004 From: william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu (William Cordua) Date: Mon Oct 11 14:49:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds]MSA website status? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I just tried and got a "connection failed" message too. Something must be up - or down. Dr. Bill on 10/11/04 4:27 PM, J B Murowchick at murowchickj@umkc.edu wrote: > Does anyone know if the Mineralogical Society of America's web site > (www.minsocam.org) is down? I've been trying to get on for 2 days, and I > keep getting the error message "A connection failure has occurred." I have > no trouble connecting to other web sites. Obviously, I can't check with > them directly, so I thought someone on the Rockhounds list might know. > Thanks. > > Jim > > > __________________________________________________________ > Dr. James B. Murowchick > Associate Professor Office: (816) 235-2979 > Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall Fax: (816) 235-5535 > University of Missouri-Kansas City E-mail: murowchickj@umkc.edu > 5110 Rockhill Road > Kansas City, MO 64110 > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From ahelms at pdx.edu Mon Oct 11 15:21:48 2004 From: ahelms at pdx.edu (ahelms@pdx.edu) Date: Mon Oct 11 15:21:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Member In-Reply-To: <001a01c4af22$ce2cae00$b0a5490c@pete> References: <1097338130.41680d123d7d8@webmail.pdx.edu> <001a01c4af22$ce2cae00$b0a5490c@pete> Message-ID: <1097533308.416b077c88b19@webmail.pdx.edu> Dear Pete, I think I have a solution to your question about a lot of Oregonian's are represented in this group. Aaron who started the group is located out of Washington and Oregon, so there are a lot of people that have joined by word of mouth from him. However, there is a lot of really great geology and many different sites here in Oregon. I am sure that Colorado has a lot of really great sites also. Thanks for the welcome. Alicia Helms Quoting "Peter J. Modreski" : > Dear Alicia, new Rockhounds List person, > > For some reason (maybe there's a reason?), it seems like people from Oregon > seem to be unusually well represented in this group. Or maybe they're just > more vocal (like to write more often), but it seems that when people talk > here about collecting sites, it's "more often than not" (no scientific > sampling here), from Oregon. For most of the other states, people mostly > seem to just ask about collecting sites when they're going to be passing > through there on a trip; but Oregon, people here seem always to be writing > about the collecting sites for thundereggs, petrified wood, etc., etc. I > guess it must be the Rockhound mecca (or for online rockhounds, at any > rate). I mean, there aren't even all THAT many people in Oregon in total, > are there? Well, you must have a lot of good company out there, anyway. > > sincerely (and welcome again to this List), > Pete Modreski, Denver CO > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From afox at drizzle.com Mon Oct 11 15:28:17 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Mon Oct 11 15:28:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Member In-Reply-To: <1097533308.416b077c88b19@webmail.pdx.edu> Message-ID: > represented in this group. Aaron who started the group is located out of > Washington and Oregon, so there are a lot of people that have joined by > word of mouth from him. I should step in at this point, and mention that I did not 'start' rockhounds, per se. I took over from Tom Corson in mid 1998, when he ran out of time to keep up with it. I hated to see the list move to somewhere like Yahoo! Groups, so I moved it to Drizzle. Most of the list membership is still intact from those old days; by my guess, only about 1/4 of the list is new subscribers since 1998. As to the NW connection, after looking at mailserver logs, it's not that a whole ton of readers are based in the Pacific Northwest, but that quite a few of the PacNW users / readers are relatively active posters (Lanny, John Cornish, Bill, you all know who you are...). Aaron Fox Rockhounds Admin -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From Gslrocks at aol.com Mon Oct 11 15:36:59 2004 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Mon Oct 11 16:12:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] petrified ginko wood Message-ID: <1f9.a6784f.2e9c650b@aol.com> I have some Ginko wood i bought back in 1980 or so. I have not seen anything much about the material as far as available specimens and was curious to what they are actually worth. There are some good sized pieces and they show what i think are some good texture, they look like ashen colored fireplace logs. I have pictures i can send if some one could give me some help. Greg Lesinski --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Oct 11 16:27:39 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Oct 11 16:18:20 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] gossan & a good book References: <6.1.2.0.0.20041010192823.040c2560@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <416B14AE.B64@Tomaszewski.net> The uppermost part of sedimentary ore bodies which reach the surface are subject to weathering. Here an oxidation zone forms which is often enriched in iron but is generally poor in other metals. Miners called this "iron hat" or "gossen". Gossen ores are porus, corroded on the surface, and almost always a brown or black color. Gossen ores were the easiest to work, and most were worked out before the 20th century. Being a rock instead of a mineral you will not find gossen listed at MinDat. BTW, the last time I checked John Betts still had one or two specimens of diamond in kimberlite for sale, and some great pictures. Kreigh Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > Hi List, > > It may be a mistake to introduce two subjects at the same time, but lets > see what happens: > > My husband, Bill, the astronomer and avid reader, is reading "Barren Lands, > and Epic Search for Diamonds in the North American Arctic" by Kevin > Krajick, for the second time. The first time he kept saying: "What's the > difference between pyrope and almandine?" and "Can we find a picture of > kinberlite?" Now he's saying: "We've got to go to Yellowknife!" (I agree, > hopefully someday soon). > > But tonight he said, "What's gossan?" I replied that I thought it was > related to metallics like pyrite, maybe a decomposed matrix, not sure... > > So I went to www.mindat.org and got nothing! I was really surprised that > it wasn't there! > > So I googled and got > http://www.brainydictionary.com/words/go/gossan170013.html, which helped, > and sort of confirmed my hunch. > > So my messages to the list are: > > 1. "Barren Lands, and Epic Search for Diamonds in the North American > Arctic" by Kevin Krajick is a good book. > 2. Mindat.org is not infallible (but we know that; I was just surprised > for it to fail in this case). > 3. Brainydictionary.com is a valuable site for concise definitions of just > about everything (emphasis on concise). > 4. Yellowknife seems to us like a great destination, especially after > having been to Broken Hill, NSW. Both are mining towns, and both are a > looong way away from "normal" civilization. > > Aloha, Kitty From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Mon Oct 11 20:42:44 2004 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Mon Oct 11 20:43:31 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Post Denver, 2004 Message-ID: <416B52B4.3000502@tenforward.com> 10/11/2004 POST DENVER, 2004 By John Cornish j&gcornish@tenforward.com Hi Everybody, The Denver Show has come and gone and the truck's even had the chance to cool down from the 21 hour marathon drive I put it through to come home. I've had the chance to unload and have even found just about everything I'd misplaced. Ah, the joys of being on the road for three weeks. My journey began back on the 8th of September when I pulled out from the house here in Port Angeles, Washington and hit the road. I drove and then caught the ferry crossing Puget Sound and next caught I-90 near downtown Seattle and set my controls for the heart of the sun (east). Veering a bit right (south) and continuing for another 20 hours, I was soon in Denver, Colorado. It's kind of neat to see a major show develop from an empty hotel and parking lot. The trucks slowly arrive and the tents come up and the rental tables get unloaded and the Dealers start to arrive. License plates from New York, Missouri, Arizona and on and on. Though to a lesser extent then Tucson, they all come to Denver. Not that long after my arriving on the scene, I was checking into room number 124 at the Denver Central, Holiday Inn. Scott Kleine of Great Basin Minerals out of Reno, Nevada was sharing his room with me for the second year and this would be our first year on the first floor. We were both excited and were very much looking forward to this year's show. I'd arrived first and as soon as I was in the room, I immediately began tearing things apart. Dismantling beds, disconnecting everything electrical and stacking and shuffling the room clear of all clutter so that when the display cases arrived later in the day, everything would be perfect. In rearranging the room, I had two goals to keep in mind, number one, make the room user friendly to our clients and number two, make the room livable for us. I was glad I'd started breaking things down when I did as I'd just finished when the case delivery guys showed up with display cases on hand. I helped supervise them into position and then after signing the paperwork, I bid the guys so long and started every Dealer's bane, cleaning glass. Dirty, tape sticky glass, thank goodness the case rental folks provide paper towels and cleaner, we sure always need them! I'd been cleaning for an hour or so when a knock came to the door and Scott arrived. We passed along our greetings and bs'ed for a bit and then assisted each other unloading our respective rigs, beginning the process of setting up our show. By our showing up on the Friday of the week before show time and setting up over the weekend, we find our stress level goes down (even while our expenses are going up) and that it's worth the peace of mind in the long run to have this leisurely preamble to the shows actual opening. Having the cases arrive on Monday and opening Tuesday at noon, this is just way too tight and definitely not worth the aggravation. Rather then expounding endlessly regarding our show, I'll let pictures and Scott's narrative do the talking for me. By clicking on the following link, you'll be taken over to Scott's Great Basin Minerals website to his Show Report featuring this years Denver Show. Check it out, I'll be here when your finished.... http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Mineral%20Show%20Pix/September%20Denver%202004%20Show%20Pix%20Page.htm .... Scott and I enjoyed another successful, if not tiring show, and with that bittersweet feeling which is every show's ending, we each set off in our separate directions. Scott was heading for the Hot Springs and me, I was off for Idaho. On the way, there was a bit of snow in Wyoming, in Idaho, I was greeted only by the cold. I spent my first night camping out after the drive and found myself thinking of the road wonders I'd experienced in traveling here. I'd seen plentiful wildlife, herds of wild horses, elk, antelope, deer and more breathtakingly scenic wonders spread about then any one person deserves. On my first trip to Denver back in 2002, I traveled with a friend, Pat Curry. Pat had a penchant for the route less traveled. We took little obscure, time consuming, wondrously beautiful side highways which meandered us eventually towards our goal. The big highways may get a person there quicker, but sometime when you've a moment, take those back roads and see what you've been missing. Being receptive to the influence of Pat's (if not my surroundings) unique perspective, I continually seek to expand my inventory of these forgotten byways. Idaho was a brief stop over on my way up to Butte, Montana. One of this year's customers was the Mineral Museum at Montana Tech. ( http://www.mbmg.mtech.edu/museum.htm ). Their representative is a wonderful woman named Ginette, who also received the honor of Best Museum Display at this year's Denver Gem and Mineral Show in the Merchandise Mart ( http://www.denvermineralshow.com/index.htm ). Due to the delicate nature of the awesome heulandite and mordenite specimen she acquired, I offered to deliver it to her on the way home (just a wee bit of a side trip!). With this opportunity presenting itself, I stopped in Challis to walk my claims ( http://www.lrream.com/challisheulandite.html ) and do a bit of poking about. While there, I additionally checked out one of the old local fluorite mines whose location Lanny Ream had graciously shared on a previous trip to the area and rooted about for treasure. Afterwards, while traveling towards Butte, I crossed over Lost Trail Pass and turned off east passing Big Hole National Battlefield ( http://www.nps.gov/biho/ ), and followed later by the turn off leading to Crystal Park ( http://gorp.away.com/gorp/resource/us_national_forest/mt/see_beav.htm ), before eventually reaching I-15 and heading north towards Butte. Once there, I managed a bit of visiting with friends before dropping off the specimen and turning my truck officially west towards home. I stopped twice to visit friends on the way through in Missoula and Spokane, picking up more treasure as I went before finally, eventually, I made it home. When I pulled into the driveway, it was 3:30 in the morning and tired was something I'd been ages ago. I barely remember coming through the door and being greeted by first my dog Buddy and then by my wife Gloria. It'd been another awesome adventure and I'd made it home safe. A successful trip by all counts. And so now, here I am typing up this little ditty and I'd like to share a few of the goodies I picked up while at the shows. My best purchase had been ordered from the folks at the Collectors Edge ( http://www.collectorsedge.com/indexflash.cfm ) earlier this year while in Tucson and was only just released prior to the Denver Shows. This is the fantastic RHODOCHROSITE Red Treasure of the Rockies. The Story of the Sweet Home Mine. This presentation is being offered in both DVD and VHS formats. I purchased the DVD (and thus cannot speak for the video, not knowing if the extra features presented on the one are offered on the other) and it is just absolutely superlative on every count. The educated and the novice will as equally be spellbound by this documentary. Santa should be busy delivering these to all the good girls and boys out there this year for Christmas, don't forget to add this to your wish list! This presentation is so new, in reviewing the Collectors Edge website prior to posting this report, there was still no notification of this product's release. Contacting the good folks at the Collectors Edge will result in a response detailing ordering information. This product receives my highest review!!! Another awesome presentation I picked up at the show was received from Tucson's Westward Look Resort Mineral Show ( http://www.westwardminerals.com/ ) promoter and all around nice guy, Dave Waisman. Dave has offered an incredible Saturday evening entertainment at his show since its beginning back in 2002, for this year, 2004, Dave assembled a panel of some of our hobbies most illustrious dignitaries and then video recorded the entire event. The panel assembled includes luminaries Ed Swoboda, Bill Larson, Dave Wilbur, Peter Bancroft, Charlie Key and was moderated by Steve Smale. The perspectives and opinions shared by these greats of the hobby make for a fascinating hours (actually 74 minutes) entertainment. Additionally, I picked up two books this year. The best has to be the monograph, The Tourmaline. This had originally been available in German only (3 printings), but has just recently become available in English for the first time. This book is a glorious tribute to tourmaline and is presented in a large hard bound 12 by 16 inch format. Huge color photos dominate this tome and illustrate in profusion the gaudy mineral group that is tourmaline. Specimen photos are eclipsed by sliced specimens illustrating the wondrous internal growth zoning so highly regarded in this group. Following this is a section offering tourmaline watercolor paintings by Christiane Lesch. The book is by Friedrich Benesch and Bernhard Wohrmann and was purchased from John and Lyn Kilian of the Kilian Collection ( http://www.kiliancollection.com/ ). My next book offers a fantastic photo journey illustrating some of our planet's finest agates and agate localities. The book is titled The Beauty of Banded Agates. An Exploration of Agates from Eight Major Worldwide Sites and is by Michael R. Carlson. I purchased the soft cover as it was all that was available from STPGM ( http://www.condoragatemuseum.com/ ), but will upgrade to a hard cover version at the earliest opportunity. Like the Tourmaline book mentioned above, both of these are way beyond a 10 on a 10 scale and equally receive my highest praise! And staying at this same awesome level, I picked up one mineral specimen. This came from Joe Dorris ( http://users.frii.com/glacier/Index/GlacierHomePage/GlacierHomePage.htm ) and for those of you who don't know Joe, Joe is one of the nicest guys out there and Joe mines world class smoky quartz and amazonite from Colorado and boy, oh boy, did Joe have a sweet offering of killer specimens available this year. There were so many good pieces, knock your socks off good pieces, that it was hard to select just one specimen, it took me awhile, but I finally managed and picked up a real killer. My piece is from the Ponderosa Pocket discovered at the Two Point Mine near Florissant, Colorado and measures 3.5 by 3.5 by 2 inches tall. It is dominated by a perfect dark black smoky rising from the center of the plate at a slightly backwards tilting angle surrounded by several other smokeys associated with soft green colored amazonites and flower like bursts of white clevelandite. It's so very pretty and sitting here next to me, it still seems unbelievable that I'm the lucky guy who got to bring it home. I had Joe sign the label too for extra giggles. Yup, Denver was a great show, one of this year's best. I had a great time and shared much of the experience with friends. The rocks were terrific and while I didn't get around to see as many rooms as I'd have liked, those that I did manage to visit sure had some awesome treasures. The number of people attending this year's show was down overall this year. This was my impression and the impression of several others that I spoke to at both the Holiday Inn show and the Merchandise Mart show. This equated to great deals for those shoppers who made the trip. Sorry I missed you if you were at the show and if you weren't, maybe we'll see ya there next year! Have a great day everyone and take care, John PS As a note, this years Denver Gem and Mineral Show in the Merchandise Mart featured Zeolites as their show theme. A specimen I collected of heulandite and mordenite from the Rat's Nest claim won the best oversize cabinet award and was entered and received by Bill and Marge Hawes. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Oct 11 21:07:51 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Oct 11 21:07:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Post Denver, 2004 References: <416B52B4.3000502@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <416B5880.1F78@Tomaszewski.net> John and Gloria Cornish wrote: > > 10/11/2004 > > POST DENVER, 2004 > > By John Cornish > j&gcornish@tenforward.com > > Hi Everybody, > > The Denver Show has come and gone and the truck's even had the chance to > cool down from the 21 hour marathon drive I put it through to come home. John, I appreciate your taking time to give us average collectors a good view of the back side of the Mineral Shows we all appreciate and wait for. Thank you! Kreigh From kahako at aloha.net Mon Oct 11 22:34:57 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Oct 11 22:06:42 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Post Denver, 2004 In-Reply-To: <416B52B4.3000502@tenforward.com> References: <416B52B4.3000502@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041011192935.02ce8400@mail.aloha.net> John, As a person with theatre background, I truly appreciated being conducted "backstage" for the Denver "performance." Well written, enjoyable, well done! Thanks, Kitty From LarryRush at worldnet.att.net Tue Oct 12 06:44:45 2004 From: LarryRush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Tue Oct 12 06:56:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Index of refraction liquids References: Message-ID: <002201c4b062$f81006e0$fe8c4c0c@fekib> Thanks, Jim: Good stuff, but too rich for me! I will try to assemble a "home-made" set! (Want to swap Thumbnails? I have a large list of extra pieces, all mounted in Perky Boxes) Regards...........Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: J B Murowchick To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Index of refraction liquids McCrone sells Cargille R.I. liquid sets, but they're not cheap. Check out http://www.mccrone.com. Jim Murowchick __________________________________________________________ Dr. James B. Murowchick Associate Professor Office: (816) 235-2979 Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall Fax: (816) 235-5535 University of Missouri-Kansas City E-mail: murowchickj@umkc.edu 5110 Rockhill Road Kansas City, MO 64110 on 10/7/04 3:55 PM, Lawrence Rush at LarryRush@worldnet.att.net wrote: > Some time ago, there was a discussion on the I of R liquids. Without opening > that discussion back up, would anyone who has information on either how to buy > or make a set please contact me off-list. > > Many thanks..............Larry Rush > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From murowchickj at umkc.edu Tue Oct 12 09:24:31 2004 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (J B Murowchick) Date: Tue Oct 12 09:24:41 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds]MSA website status? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: FYI--I just called MAS and confirmed that their website is down. They did not know how long it would be offline, but I received a message yesterday saying that it was down for maintenance and would be down until this coming weekend. Jim on 10/11/04 4:49 PM, William Cordua at william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu wrote: > I just tried and got a "connection failed" message too. Something must be up > - or down. > > Dr. Bill > > on 10/11/04 4:27 PM, J B Murowchick at murowchickj@umkc.edu wrote: > >> Does anyone know if the Mineralogical Society of America's web site >> (www.minsocam.org) is down? I've been trying to get on for 2 days, and I >> keep getting the error message "A connection failure has occurred." I have >> no trouble connecting to other web sites. Obviously, I can't check with >> them directly, so I thought someone on the Rockhounds list might know. >> Thanks. >> >> Jim >> >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> Dr. James B. Murowchick >> Associate Professor Office: (816) 235-2979 >> Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall Fax: (816) 235-5535 >> University of Missouri-Kansas City E-mail: murowchickj@umkc.edu >> 5110 Rockhill Road >> Kansas City, MO 64110 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds __________________________________________________________ Dr. James B. Murowchick Associate Professor Office: (816) 235-2979 Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall Fax: (816) 235-5535 University of Missouri-Kansas City E-mail: murowchickj@umkc.edu 5110 Rockhill Road Kansas City, MO 64110 From rik.dillen at skynet.be Tue Oct 12 11:07:45 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Tue Oct 12 11:08:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds]MSA website status? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c4b086$6519ea80$f3c4f051@maxdata> Hi James, It doesn't work from here (Belgium) either. You could send an e-mail to : 'business@minsocam.org' and you would end at Alex speer's office, who can certainly help you. Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J B *Murowchick *Sent: maandag 11 oktober 2004 23:28 *To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors *Subject: Re: [Rockhounds]MSA website status? * * *Does anyone know if the Mineralogical Society of America's web site *(www.minsocam.org) is down? I've been trying to get on for 2 *days, and I keep getting the error message "A connection *failure has occurred." I have no trouble connecting to other *web sites. Obviously, I can't check with them directly, so I *thought someone on the Rockhounds list might know. Thanks. * *Jim * * *__________________________________________________________ *Dr. James B. Murowchick *Associate Professor Office: (816) 235-2979 *Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall Fax: (816) 235-5535 *University of Missouri-Kansas City E-mail: murowchickj@umkc.edu *5110 Rockhill Road *Kansas City, MO 64110 * *_______________________________________________ *Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List *WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds *Subscription Services: *http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds * * From ahelms at pdx.edu Tue Oct 12 13:23:07 2004 From: ahelms at pdx.edu (ahelms@pdx.edu) Date: Tue Oct 12 13:56:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1097612587.416c3d2be6871@webmail.pdx.edu> Sorry Aaron. Sorry for the mis-interpretation. Alicia Quoting Aaron Fox : > > represented in this group. Aaron who started the group is located out of > > Washington and Oregon, so there are a lot of people that have joined by > > word of mouth from him. > > I should step in at this point, and mention that I did not 'start' > rockhounds, per se. I took over from Tom Corson in mid 1998, when he ran > out of time to keep up with it. I hated to see the list move to somewhere > like Yahoo! Groups, so I moved it to Drizzle. Most of the list membership > is still intact from those old days; by my guess, only about 1/4 of the > list is new subscribers since 1998. > > As to the NW connection, after looking at mailserver logs, it's not that a > whole ton of readers are based in the Pacific Northwest, but that quite a > few of the PacNW users / readers are relatively active posters (Lanny, > John Cornish, Bill, you all know who you are...). > > Aaron Fox > Rockhounds Admin > > -- > afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox > FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your > computer. Press any key to reboot > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From hptdesigns at charter.net Tue Oct 12 14:52:51 2004 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Tue Oct 12 14:43:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Post Denver, 2004 In-Reply-To: <416B52B4.3000502@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <3948sc$9rub8c@mxip09a.cluster1.charter.net> Good stuff from John as usual. I always enjoy his writeups. Wonder if you could expound on those seemingly wonderful hiddenite crystals in your show case. Tommy Armstrong > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > John and Gloria Cornish > Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 11:43 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: [Rockhounds] Post Denver, 2004 > > > 10/11/2004 > > POST DENVER, 2004 > > By John Cornish > j&gcornish@tenforward.com > > > > Hi Everybody, > > The Denver Show has come and gone and the truck's even had > the chance to cool down from the 21 hour marathon drive I put > it through to come home. > I've had the chance to unload and have even found just about > everything I'd misplaced. Ah, the joys of being on the road > for three weeks. My journey began back on the 8th of > September when I pulled out from the house here in Port > Angeles, Washington and hit the road. I drove and then caught > the ferry crossing Puget Sound and next caught I-90 near > downtown Seattle and set my controls for the heart of the sun (east). > Veering a bit right (south) and continuing for another 20 > hours, I was soon in Denver, Colorado. > > It's kind of neat to see a major show develop from an empty > hotel and parking lot. The trucks slowly arrive and the tents > come up and the rental tables get unloaded and the Dealers > start to arrive. License plates from New York, Missouri, > Arizona and on and on. Though to a lesser extent then Tucson, > they all come to Denver. Not that long after my arriving on > the scene, I was checking into room number 124 at the Denver > Central, Holiday Inn. Scott Kleine of Great Basin Minerals > out of Reno, Nevada was sharing his room with me for the > second year and this would be our first year on the first > floor. We were both excited and were very much looking > forward to this year's show. I'd arrived first and as soon as > I was in the room, I immediately began tearing things apart. > Dismantling beds, disconnecting everything electrical and > stacking and shuffling the room clear of all clutter so that > when the display cases arrived later in the day, everything > would be perfect. In rearranging the room, I had two goals to > keep in mind, number one, make the room user friendly to our > clients and number two, make the room livable for us. > > I was glad I'd started breaking things down when I did as I'd > just finished when the case delivery guys showed up with > display cases on hand. I helped supervise them into position > and then after signing the paperwork, I bid the guys so long > and started every Dealer's bane, cleaning glass. Dirty, tape > sticky glass, thank goodness the case rental folks provide > paper towels and cleaner, we sure always need them! I'd been > cleaning for an hour or so when a knock came to the door and > Scott arrived. We passed along our greetings and bs'ed for a > bit and then assisted each other unloading our respective > rigs, beginning the process of setting up our show. By our > showing up on the Friday of the week before show time and > setting up over the weekend, we find our stress level goes > down (even while our expenses are going up) and that it's > worth the peace of mind in the long run to have this > leisurely preamble to the shows actual opening. Having the > cases arrive on Monday and opening Tuesday at noon, this is > just way too tight and definitely not worth the aggravation. > > Rather then expounding endlessly regarding our show, I'll let > pictures and Scott's narrative do the talking for me. By > clicking on the following link, you'll be taken over to > Scott's Great Basin Minerals website to his Show Report > featuring this years Denver Show. Check it out, I'll be here > when your finished.... > > http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Mineral%20Show%20Pix/Septemb > er%20Denver%202004%20Show%20Pix%20Page.htm > > .... Scott and I enjoyed another successful, if not tiring > show, and with that bittersweet feeling which is every show's > ending, we each set off in our separate directions. Scott was > heading for the Hot Springs and me, I was off for Idaho. On > the way, there was a bit of snow in Wyoming, in Idaho, I was > greeted only by the cold. I spent my first night camping out > after the drive and found myself thinking of the road wonders > I'd experienced in traveling here. I'd seen plentiful > wildlife, herds of wild horses, elk, antelope, deer and more > breathtakingly scenic wonders spread about then any one > person deserves. On my first trip to Denver back in 2002, I > traveled with a friend, Pat Curry. Pat had a penchant for the > route less traveled. We took little obscure, time consuming, > wondrously beautiful side highways which meandered us > eventually towards our goal. The big highways may get a > person there quicker, but sometime when you've a moment, take > those back roads and see what you've been missing. Being > receptive to the influence of Pat's (if not my surroundings) > unique perspective, I continually seek to expand my inventory > of these forgotten byways. > > Idaho was a brief stop over on my way up to Butte, Montana. > One of this year's customers was the Mineral Museum at > Montana Tech. ( http://www.mbmg.mtech.edu/museum.htm ). Their > representative is a wonderful woman named Ginette, who also > received the honor of Best Museum Display at this year's > Denver Gem and Mineral Show in the Merchandise Mart ( > http://www.denvermineralshow.com/index.htm ). Due to the > delicate nature of the awesome heulandite and mordenite > specimen she acquired, I offered to deliver it to her on the > way home (just a wee bit of a side trip!). With this > opportunity presenting itself, I stopped in Challis to walk > my claims ( http://www.lrream.com/challisheulandite.html > ) and do a bit of poking about. While there, I additionally > checked out one of the old local fluorite mines whose > location Lanny Ream had graciously shared on a previous trip > to the area and rooted about for treasure. > > Afterwards, while traveling towards Butte, I crossed over > Lost Trail Pass and turned off east passing Big Hole National > Battlefield ( http://www.nps.gov/biho/ ), and followed later > by the turn off leading to Crystal Park ( > http://gorp.away.com/gorp/resource/us_national_forest/mt/see_b > eav.htm ), before eventually reaching I-15 and heading north > towards Butte. Once there, I managed a bit of visiting with > friends before dropping off the specimen and turning my truck > officially west towards home. I stopped twice to visit > friends on the way through in Missoula and Spokane, picking > up more treasure as I went before finally, eventually, I made > it home. When I pulled into the driveway, it was 3:30 in the > morning and tired was something I'd been ages ago. I barely > remember coming through the door and being greeted by first > my dog Buddy and then by my wife Gloria. It'd been another > awesome adventure and I'd made it home safe. A successful > trip by all counts. > > And so now, here I am typing up this little ditty and I'd > like to share a few of the goodies I picked up while at the > shows. My best purchase had been ordered from the folks at > the Collectors Edge ( http://www.collectorsedge.com/indexflash.cfm > ) earlier this year while in Tucson and was only just > released prior to the Denver Shows. This is the fantastic > RHODOCHROSITE Red Treasure of the Rockies. The Story of the > Sweet Home Mine. This presentation is being offered in both > DVD and VHS formats. I purchased the DVD (and thus cannot > speak for the video, not knowing if the extra features > presented on the one are offered on the other) and it is just > absolutely superlative on every count. The educated and the > novice will as equally be spellbound by this documentary. > Santa should be busy delivering these to all the good girls > and boys out there this year for Christmas, don't forget to > add this to your wish list! This presentation is so new, in > reviewing the Collectors Edge website prior to posting this > report, there was still no notification of this product's > release. Contacting the good folks at the Collectors Edge > will result in a response detailing ordering information. > This product receives my highest review!!! > > Another awesome presentation I picked up at the show was > received from Tucson's Westward Look Resort Mineral Show ( > http://www.westwardminerals.com/ ) promoter and all around > nice guy, Dave Waisman. Dave has offered an incredible > Saturday evening entertainment at his show since its > beginning back in 2002, for this year, 2004, Dave assembled a > panel of some of our hobbies most illustrious dignitaries and > then video recorded the entire event. The panel assembled > includes luminaries Ed Swoboda, Bill Larson, Dave Wilbur, > Peter Bancroft, Charlie Key and was moderated by Steve Smale. > The perspectives and opinions shared by these greats of the > hobby make for a fascinating hours (actually 74 minutes) > entertainment. > > Additionally, I picked up two books this year. The best has > to be the monograph, The Tourmaline. This had originally been > available in German only (3 printings), but has just recently > become available in English for the first time. This book is > a glorious tribute to tourmaline and is presented in a large > hard bound 12 by 16 inch format. Huge color photos dominate > this tome and illustrate in profusion the gaudy mineral group > that is tourmaline. Specimen photos are eclipsed by sliced > specimens illustrating the wondrous internal growth zoning so > highly regarded in this group. Following this is a section > offering tourmaline watercolor paintings by Christiane Lesch. > The book is by Friedrich Benesch and Bernhard Wohrmann and > was purchased from John and Lyn Kilian of the Kilian > Collection ( http://www.kiliancollection.com/ ). > > My next book offers a fantastic photo journey illustrating > some of our planet's finest agates and agate localities. The > book is titled The Beauty of Banded Agates. An Exploration of > Agates from Eight Major Worldwide Sites and is by Michael R. > Carlson. I purchased the soft cover as it was all that was > available from STPGM ( http://www.condoragatemuseum.com/ ), > but will upgrade to a hard cover version at the earliest > opportunity. Like the Tourmaline book mentioned above, both > of these are way beyond a 10 on a 10 scale and equally > receive my highest praise! > > And staying at this same awesome level, I picked up one > mineral specimen. This came from Joe Dorris ( > http://users.frii.com/glacier/Index/GlacierHomePage/GlacierHom > ePage.htm > ) and for those of you who don't know Joe, Joe is one of the > nicest guys out there and Joe mines world class smoky quartz > and amazonite from Colorado and boy, oh boy, did Joe have a > sweet offering of killer specimens available this year. There > were so many good pieces, knock your socks off good pieces, > that it was hard to select just one specimen, it took me > awhile, but I finally managed and picked up a real killer. My > piece is from the Ponderosa Pocket discovered at the Two > Point Mine near Florissant, Colorado and measures 3.5 by 3.5 > by 2 inches tall. It is dominated by a perfect dark black > smoky rising from the center of the plate at a slightly > backwards tilting angle surrounded by several other smokeys > associated with soft green colored amazonites and flower like > bursts of white clevelandite. It's so very pretty and sitting > here next to me, it still seems unbelievable that I'm the > lucky guy who got to bring it home. I had Joe sign the label > too for extra giggles. > > Yup, Denver was a great show, one of this year's best. I had > a great time and shared much of the experience with friends. > The rocks were terrific and while I didn't get around to see > as many rooms as I'd have liked, those that I did manage to > visit sure had some awesome treasures. > The number of people attending this year's show was down > overall this year. This was my impression and the impression > of several others that I spoke to at both the Holiday Inn > show and the Merchandise Mart show. > This equated to great deals for those shoppers who made the trip. > > Sorry I missed you if you were at the show and if you > weren't, maybe we'll see ya there next year! Have a great day > everyone and take care, > > John > > PS As a note, this years Denver Gem and Mineral Show in the > Merchandise Mart featured Zeolites as their show theme. A > specimen I collected of heulandite and mordenite from the > Rat's Nest claim won the best oversize cabinet award and was > entered and received by Bill and Marge Hawes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From BeeBeeBarr at aol.com Tue Oct 12 20:42:01 2004 From: BeeBeeBarr at aol.com (BeeBeeBarr@aol.com) Date: Tue Oct 12 20:42:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Quartz Message-ID: <5454A858.55A89A99.0A970CBF@aol.com> The name prase refers to cryptocrystalline green quartz (i.e. chalcedony) rather than (macro)crystalline, according to my well-thumbed copy of Dake, Fleener & Wilson's "Quartz Family Minerals." Darker, less pure green chalcedony is called plasma; very dark, somewhat translucent chalcedony with red spots is, of course, bloodstone. By the way, there IS naturally occurring, unheated green crystalline quartz -- I've found it myself with the amethyst at several of the mines near Thunder Bay, Ontario. I've also seen the book with the prasiolite mention, but this amethyst and green mix is found in Namibia as well, and is being maketed under the name "amegreen" (a la ametrine). I also have a specimen I found years ago in a creek in Silver Springs, MD that has small, clear, green quartz crystals associated with goethite; they don't look like there are inclusions present. As for the heat treating, I remember an article (by Kurt Nassau, I think) explaining that amethyst which turns green upon heating started out with ferrous rather than ferric iron as a substitution in the crystal lattice. In this case, ionizing radiation presumably knocks two electrons off the Fe++ ion to form the Fe++++ color centers rather than only one, as is the case with Fe+++. Heating allows the freed electrons to return to their former homes, changing ferric quartz back to citrine color and ferrous to green. Three more possibilities for the green mystery rock: pale green aventurine (it's not always dark), well-cooked metaquartzite with inclusions of some green mineral (I've found attractive samples of this in Michigan glacial erratics), or plain old quartz with green inclusions. Sorry for the overkill -- I just seem to have a lot of pigeonholes in my brain full of green silica... Bill Barr Ann Arbor, Michigan "Will Work For Minerals" From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Wed Oct 13 06:24:54 2004 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Wed Oct 13 06:32:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Post Denver, 2004 In-Reply-To: <416B5880.1F78@Tomaszewski.net> References: <416B52B4.3000502@tenforward.com> <416B5880.1F78@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <416D2CA6.20406@tenforward.com> Hi Kreigh and Everyone, Thank you all for taking the time to post, I really appreciate your comments. However, regarding your average collector comment, I suppose other then the fact that I've stepped it up quite a bit from most, I'm still just another mineral enthusiast. I found I enjoyed collecting more then just the weekends would allow and that I wanted to spend more time in the mineral fast lane. I've worked for several years to rise above my weekend warrior roots and while it's a challenging course, it's one wreathed in satisfaction. It's hard work, but the rewards are there too. All the very best, John Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >John and Gloria Cornish wrote: > > >>10/11/2004 >> >>POST DENVER, 2004 >> >>By John Cornish >>j&gcornish@tenforward.com >> >>Hi Everybody, >> >>The Denver Show has come and gone and the truck's even had the chance to >>cool down from the 21 hour marathon drive I put it through to come home. >> >> > >John, > >I appreciate your taking time to give us average collectors a good view >of the back side of the Mineral Shows we all appreciate and wait for. > >Thank you! > >Kreigh > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Wed Oct 13 06:19:32 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Wed Oct 13 06:37:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Quartz References: <5454A858.55A89A99.0A970CBF@aol.com> Message-ID: <004001c4b12a$abbf4bc0$e1a4490c@pete> Bill, Thanks for those good additional comments on the green quartz. I seem to remember, was it Kurt Nassau who called the heat-treated quartz containing ferrous iron, "greened amethyst"? Now, just rambling, here's a thought. When transparent quartz has green color, it's due to ions substituting within the quartz structure. But the darker colored, green cryptocrystalline quartz, is colored by inclusions of green minerals--and the same applies to cloudy quartz crystals, with obvious inclusions of green minerals. I've never seen, or tried to make, a list of all the "green" minerals that can be present as inclusions, and color quartz--or, rocks in general, green. When teaching about rocks & minerals, I always explain how the common green color seen in many rocks, from crystalline metamorphic rocks, to fine-grain sedimentary rocks, is due to various silicate minerals that contain ferrous iron. So, here's my quick top-of-my head list of the such minerals, that can color rocks or (as inclusions) other minerals green: (and for the moment, I'll put aside and ignore, the matter of the exact mineral species, and I'll ignore those chemical prefixes in the names, etc., and just use some simple, generic group names!) actinolite (and other amphiboles) chlorite (various members of the group) serpentine (also, a group) pumpellyite (incl. "chlorastrolite" = "greenstone") epidote celadonite (common, lining vesicles in basalts) muscovite (sometimes green) prehnite (colored by iron??) illite (sometimes, and other clay minerals) Some of these minerals have distinctive colors or morphologies, that make them easy to recognize; and many don't. Pete Modreski From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Wed Oct 13 06:37:08 2004 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Wed Oct 13 06:37:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Post Denver, 2004 In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20041011192935.02ce8400@mail.aloha.net> References: <416B52B4.3000502@tenforward.com> <6.1.2.0.0.20041011192935.02ce8400@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <416D2F84.3050204@tenforward.com> Dear Kitty and Herwig, Thank you so very much for the kind words, they are very much appreciated! Have a stellar day, take care, John Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > John, > > As a person with theatre background, I truly appreciated being > conducted "backstage" for the Denver "performance." Well written, > enjoyable, well done! > > Thanks, Kitty > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Wed Oct 13 07:29:18 2004 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Wed Oct 13 07:42:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Post Denver, 2004 In-Reply-To: <3948sc$9rub8c@mxip09a.cluster1.charter.net> References: <3948sc$9rub8c@mxip09a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <416D3BBE.2050607@tenforward.com> Hi Tommy, Thank you for taking the time to comment, I very much appreciate it. Sure, great stuff those Hiddenites! These pieces came from the big discovery of 2003 where over 1200 Hiddenites were found. Hiddenite is a chromium enriched spodumene (as compared to other green spodumenes typically colored by vanadium) and is found near Hiddenite, North Carolina, USA. This find also included amethyst scepter quartz crystals, and crystals of rutile, schorl and some emeralds. The pocket was 12 to 14 feet down and measured 2 feet long by 4 by 6 inches. This is the finest discovery of Hiddenites to have ever occurred, eclipsing all previous finds, including the original discoveries made by W.E. Hidden in the late 1800's and early 1900's. Of these specimens, several are bi-colored (extremely bright emerald green grading into the more typically seen softer green tone). Cutters have fashioned outrageous stones from some of this material. Virtually no matrix specimens were recovered. I hope this helps, if I can help in more detail or regarding any specimen specifics, don't hesitate to drop me a note and we can yak more about it at our leisure. Thanks again for writing, take care, John Tommy Armstrong wrote: >Good stuff from John as usual. I always enjoy his writeups. Wonder if you >could expound on those seemingly wonderful hiddenite crystals in your show >case. > >Tommy Armstrong > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >>[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of >>John and Gloria Cornish >>Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 11:43 PM >>To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >>Subject: [Rockhounds] Post Denver, 2004 >> >> >>10/11/2004 >> >>POST DENVER, 2004 >> >>By John Cornish >>j&gcornish@tenforward.com >> >> >> >>Hi Everybody, >> >>The Denver Show has come and gone and the truck's even had >>the chance to cool down from the 21 hour marathon drive I put >>it through to come home. >>I've had the chance to unload and have even found just about >>everything I'd misplaced. Ah, the joys of being on the road >>for three weeks. My journey began back on the 8th of >>September when I pulled out from the house here in Port >>Angeles, Washington and hit the road. I drove and then caught >>the ferry crossing Puget Sound and next caught I-90 near >>downtown Seattle and set my controls for the heart of the sun (east). >>Veering a bit right (south) and continuing for another 20 >>hours, I was soon in Denver, Colorado. >> >>It's kind of neat to see a major show develop from an empty >>hotel and parking lot. The trucks slowly arrive and the tents >>come up and the rental tables get unloaded and the Dealers >>start to arrive. License plates from New York, Missouri, >>Arizona and on and on. Though to a lesser extent then Tucson, >>they all come to Denver. Not that long after my arriving on >>the scene, I was checking into room number 124 at the Denver >>Central, Holiday Inn. Scott Kleine of Great Basin Minerals >>out of Reno, Nevada was sharing his room with me for the >>second year and this would be our first year on the first >>floor. We were both excited and were very much looking >>forward to this year's show. I'd arrived first and as soon as >>I was in the room, I immediately began tearing things apart. >>Dismantling beds, disconnecting everything electrical and >>stacking and shuffling the room clear of all clutter so that >>when the display cases arrived later in the day, everything >>would be perfect. In rearranging the room, I had two goals to >>keep in mind, number one, make the room user friendly to our >>clients and number two, make the room livable for us. >> >>I was glad I'd started breaking things down when I did as I'd >>just finished when the case delivery guys showed up with >>display cases on hand. I helped supervise them into position >>and then after signing the paperwork, I bid the guys so long >>and started every Dealer's bane, cleaning glass. Dirty, tape >>sticky glass, thank goodness the case rental folks provide >>paper towels and cleaner, we sure always need them! I'd been >>cleaning for an hour or so when a knock came to the door and >>Scott arrived. We passed along our greetings and bs'ed for a >>bit and then assisted each other unloading our respective >>rigs, beginning the process of setting up our show. By our >>showing up on the Friday of the week before show time and >>setting up over the weekend, we find our stress level goes >>down (even while our expenses are going up) and that it's >>worth the peace of mind in the long run to have this >>leisurely preamble to the shows actual opening. Having the >>cases arrive on Monday and opening Tuesday at noon, this is >>just way too tight and definitely not worth the aggravation. >> >>Rather then expounding endlessly regarding our show, I'll let >>pictures and Scott's narrative do the talking for me. By >>clicking on the following link, you'll be taken over to >>Scott's Great Basin Minerals website to his Show Report >>featuring this years Denver Show. Check it out, I'll be here >>when your finished.... >> >>http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Mineral%20Show%20Pix/Septemb >>er%20Denver%202004%20Show%20Pix%20Page.htm >> >>.... Scott and I enjoyed another successful, if not tiring >>show, and with that bittersweet feeling which is every show's >>ending, we each set off in our separate directions. Scott was >>heading for the Hot Springs and me, I was off for Idaho. On >>the way, there was a bit of snow in Wyoming, in Idaho, I was >>greeted only by the cold. I spent my first night camping out >>after the drive and found myself thinking of the road wonders >>I'd experienced in traveling here. I'd seen plentiful >>wildlife, herds of wild horses, elk, antelope, deer and more >>breathtakingly scenic wonders spread about then any one >>person deserves. On my first trip to Denver back in 2002, I >>traveled with a friend, Pat Curry. Pat had a penchant for the >>route less traveled. We took little obscure, time consuming, >>wondrously beautiful side highways which meandered us >>eventually towards our goal. The big highways may get a >>person there quicker, but sometime when you've a moment, take >>those back roads and see what you've been missing. Being >>receptive to the influence of Pat's (if not my surroundings) >>unique perspective, I continually seek to expand my inventory >>of these forgotten byways. >> >>Idaho was a brief stop over on my way up to Butte, Montana. >>One of this year's customers was the Mineral Museum at >>Montana Tech. ( http://www.mbmg.mtech.edu/museum.htm ). Their >>representative is a wonderful woman named Ginette, who also >>received the honor of Best Museum Display at this year's >>Denver Gem and Mineral Show in the Merchandise Mart ( >>http://www.denvermineralshow.com/index.htm ). Due to the >>delicate nature of the awesome heulandite and mordenite >>specimen she acquired, I offered to deliver it to her on the >>way home (just a wee bit of a side trip!). With this >>opportunity presenting itself, I stopped in Challis to walk >>my claims ( http://www.lrream.com/challisheulandite.html >>) and do a bit of poking about. While there, I additionally >>checked out one of the old local fluorite mines whose >>location Lanny Ream had graciously shared on a previous trip >>to the area and rooted about for treasure. >> >>Afterwards, while traveling towards Butte, I crossed over >>Lost Trail Pass and turned off east passing Big Hole National >>Battlefield ( http://www.nps.gov/biho/ ), and followed later >>by the turn off leading to Crystal Park ( >>http://gorp.away.com/gorp/resource/us_national_forest/mt/see_b >>eav.htm ), before eventually reaching I-15 and heading north >>towards Butte. Once there, I managed a bit of visiting with >>friends before dropping off the specimen and turning my truck >>officially west towards home. I stopped twice to visit >>friends on the way through in Missoula and Spokane, picking >>up more treasure as I went before finally, eventually, I made >>it home. When I pulled into the driveway, it was 3:30 in the >>morning and tired was something I'd been ages ago. I barely >>remember coming through the door and being greeted by first >>my dog Buddy and then by my wife Gloria. It'd been another >>awesome adventure and I'd made it home safe. A successful >>trip by all counts. >> >>And so now, here I am typing up this little ditty and I'd >>like to share a few of the goodies I picked up while at the >>shows. My best purchase had been ordered from the folks at >>the Collectors Edge ( http://www.collectorsedge.com/indexflash.cfm >> ) earlier this year while in Tucson and was only just >>released prior to the Denver Shows. This is the fantastic >>RHODOCHROSITE Red Treasure of the Rockies. The Story of the >>Sweet Home Mine. This presentation is being offered in both >>DVD and VHS formats. I purchased the DVD (and thus cannot >>speak for the video, not knowing if the extra features >>presented on the one are offered on the other) and it is just >>absolutely superlative on every count. The educated and the >>novice will as equally be spellbound by this documentary. >>Santa should be busy delivering these to all the good girls >>and boys out there this year for Christmas, don't forget to >>add this to your wish list! This presentation is so new, in >>reviewing the Collectors Edge website prior to posting this >>report, there was still no notification of this product's >>release. Contacting the good folks at the Collectors Edge >>will result in a response detailing ordering information. >>This product receives my highest review!!! >> >>Another awesome presentation I picked up at the show was >>received from Tucson's Westward Look Resort Mineral Show ( >>http://www.westwardminerals.com/ ) promoter and all around >>nice guy, Dave Waisman. Dave has offered an incredible >>Saturday evening entertainment at his show since its >>beginning back in 2002, for this year, 2004, Dave assembled a >>panel of some of our hobbies most illustrious dignitaries and >>then video recorded the entire event. The panel assembled >>includes luminaries Ed Swoboda, Bill Larson, Dave Wilbur, >>Peter Bancroft, Charlie Key and was moderated by Steve Smale. >>The perspectives and opinions shared by these greats of the >>hobby make for a fascinating hours (actually 74 minutes) >>entertainment. >> >>Additionally, I picked up two books this year. The best has >>to be the monograph, The Tourmaline. This had originally been >>available in German only (3 printings), but has just recently >>become available in English for the first time. This book is >>a glorious tribute to tourmaline and is presented in a large >>hard bound 12 by 16 inch format. Huge color photos dominate >>this tome and illustrate in profusion the gaudy mineral group >>that is tourmaline. Specimen photos are eclipsed by sliced >>specimens illustrating the wondrous internal growth zoning so >>highly regarded in this group. Following this is a section >>offering tourmaline watercolor paintings by Christiane Lesch. >>The book is by Friedrich Benesch and Bernhard Wohrmann and >>was purchased from John and Lyn Kilian of the Kilian >>Collection ( http://www.kiliancollection.com/ ). >> >>My next book offers a fantastic photo journey illustrating >>some of our planet's finest agates and agate localities. The >>book is titled The Beauty of Banded Agates. An Exploration of >>Agates from Eight Major Worldwide Sites and is by Michael R. >>Carlson. I purchased the soft cover as it was all that was >>available from STPGM ( http://www.condoragatemuseum.com/ ), >>but will upgrade to a hard cover version at the earliest >>opportunity. Like the Tourmaline book mentioned above, both >>of these are way beyond a 10 on a 10 scale and equally >>receive my highest praise! >> >>And staying at this same awesome level, I picked up one >>mineral specimen. This came from Joe Dorris ( >>http://users.frii.com/glacier/Index/GlacierHomePage/GlacierHom >>ePage.htm >>) and for those of you who don't know Joe, Joe is one of the >>nicest guys out there and Joe mines world class smoky quartz >>and amazonite from Colorado and boy, oh boy, did Joe have a >>sweet offering of killer specimens available this year. There >>were so many good pieces, knock your socks off good pieces, >>that it was hard to select just one specimen, it took me >>awhile, but I finally managed and picked up a real killer. My >>piece is from the Ponderosa Pocket discovered at the Two >>Point Mine near Florissant, Colorado and measures 3.5 by 3.5 >>by 2 inches tall. It is dominated by a perfect dark black >>smoky rising from the center of the plate at a slightly >>backwards tilting angle surrounded by several other smokeys >>associated with soft green colored amazonites and flower like >>bursts of white clevelandite. It's so very pretty and sitting >>here next to me, it still seems unbelievable that I'm the >>lucky guy who got to bring it home. I had Joe sign the label >>too for extra giggles. >> >>Yup, Denver was a great show, one of this year's best. I had >>a great time and shared much of the experience with friends. >>The rocks were terrific and while I didn't get around to see >>as many rooms as I'd have liked, those that I did manage to >>visit sure had some awesome treasures. >>The number of people attending this year's show was down >>overall this year. This was my impression and the impression >>of several others that I spoke to at both the Holiday Inn >>show and the Merchandise Mart show. >>This equated to great deals for those shoppers who made the trip. >> >>Sorry I missed you if you were at the show and if you >>weren't, maybe we'll see ya there next year! Have a great day >>everyone and take care, >> >>John >> >>PS As a note, this years Denver Gem and Mineral Show in the >>Merchandise Mart featured Zeolites as their show theme. A >>specimen I collected of heulandite and mordenite from the >>Rat's Nest claim won the best oversize cabinet award and was >>entered and received by Bill and Marge Hawes. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >>--- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Wed Oct 13 09:45:45 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Wed Oct 13 09:39:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Post Denver, 2004 References: <3948sc$9rub8c@mxip09a.cluster1.charter.net> <416D3BBE.2050607@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <007601c4b144$175ed580$e1a4490c@pete> John, Can you direct us to any pictures posted on the web, of hiddenite crystals from that find? (Or how about, in any of the magazines?) P.S., thanks also for the nice report about the Denver Show and your travels to & from. Pete Modreski ----- Original Message ----- From: "John and Gloria Cornish" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Post Denver, 2004 > Hi Tommy, > > Thank you for taking the time to comment, I very much appreciate it. > Sure, great stuff those Hiddenites! These pieces came from the big > discovery of 2003 where over 1200 Hiddenites were found. From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Wed Oct 13 10:33:46 2004 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Wed Oct 13 10:42:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Post Denver, 2004 In-Reply-To: <007601c4b144$175ed580$e1a4490c@pete> References: <3948sc$9rub8c@mxip09a.cluster1.charter.net> <416D3BBE.2050607@tenforward.com> <007601c4b144$175ed580$e1a4490c@pete> Message-ID: <416D66FA.2000101@tenforward.com> Hi Pete and Everyone, No, I'm sorry I can't, at least beyond the one shot by Scott in his Denver Report as linked in my report. I know Jeff Scovil has photographed them so who knows, maybe yet we'll have the chance. Personally, I'd sure love a major paper (with lots and lots of photos) of the operation producing these little gems! Thanks for writing and for your kind words. All the very best, John Peter J. Modreski wrote: >John, > >Can you direct us to any pictures posted on the web, of hiddenite crystals >from that find? (Or how about, in any of the magazines?) > >P.S., thanks also for the nice report about the Denver Show and your travels >to & from. > >Pete Modreski > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John and Gloria Cornish" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 8:29 AM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Post Denver, 2004 > > > > >>Hi Tommy, >> >>Thank you for taking the time to comment, I very much appreciate it. >>Sure, great stuff those Hiddenites! These pieces came from the big >>discovery of 2003 where over 1200 Hiddenites were found. >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Oct 13 19:32:44 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Oct 13 19:32:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens Message-ID: <416DE528.CB0@Tomaszewski.net> I went out to the volcanocam this morning before sunrise at the volcano. The screen was filled with fuzz and static, except for a bright orange spot where the peak should have been. It was nice to see confirmation that the magma has become lava. Kreigh From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Wed Oct 13 21:28:06 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Wed Oct 13 21:21:41 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens References: <416DE528.CB0@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <002501c4b1a6$37487740$d4a5490c@pete> Kreigh, The same thing was visible yesterday, in the volcanocam frames from Tuesday morning before sunrise--a bright spot near the top of the dome. From viewing it, I could tell that lava had emerged, quite a few hours before the news media started carrying that report. (And I shared this with the (mostly Colorado) science teachers on my email list, to whom I send earth science news items). In fact, right now that glowing spot is very visible on the current volcanocam image; I'm looking at the image from 21:14:01 Pacific Time. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 8:32 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens > I went out to the volcanocam this morning before sunrise at the volcano. > The screen was filled with fuzz and static, except for a bright orange > spot where the peak should have been. It was nice to see confirmation > that the magma has become lava. > > Kreigh > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Thu Oct 14 06:50:24 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Oct 14 06:50:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens In-Reply-To: <002501c4b1a6$37487740$d4a5490c@pete> Message-ID: <200410141350.i9EDoWj4009048@bubbleator.drizzle.com> I wrote a little Visual Basic application that "grabs" the screen image from the web site and loads it to my box. I'll be using Windows Movie Maker to string together those images into a time-lapse movie later on this week. I noticed the bright spot a couple of days ago. I usually delete most of the night time shots from my collection (hey, who wants to watch TV-snow??), but I noticed one persistent spot starting about 3 AM on a bunch of the frames. It was pretty cool to know that I captured the first eruption on my machine! Anyway, stay tuned and I'll be posting the movie... GcB From y.dain at tiscali.fr Thu Oct 14 08:36:33 2004 From: y.dain at tiscali.fr (Y Dain) Date: Thu Oct 14 08:36:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens References: <416DE528.CB0@Tomaszewski.net> <002501c4b1a6$37487740$d4a5490c@pete> Message-ID: <003c01c4b203$96c00870$c82a24d5@bureau> could you give us the URL for cam on the volcano ? I sudy this volcano with school kids for his "explosive" eruptions !! If I understand what you say all on the list, it became a effusive volcano with lava flows ? regards and excuse me for my bad english ! From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Thu Oct 14 08:56:31 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Oct 14 08:56:50 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens In-Reply-To: <003c01c4b203$96c00870$c82a24d5@bureau> Message-ID: <200410141556.i9EFuh7H012091@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Here's a direct link to the JPEG. It updates about every 3 - 5 minutes: http://www.fs.fed.us/gpnf/volcanocams/msh/images/mshvolcanocam.jpg GcB (I'll do a "build" on the movie this afternoon while I'm away at a customer's site. It takes around a 1/2 hour to render the movie from all the little pictures.) > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Y Dain > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 10:37 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens > > could you give us the URL for cam on the volcano ? > > I sudy this volcano with school kids for his "explosive" > eruptions !! If I understand what you say all on the list, it > became a effusive volcano with lava flows ? > > regards and excuse me for my bad english ! > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Oct 14 11:24:34 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Oct 14 11:24:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens Message-ID: <101420041824.7091.416EC46200053B2F00001BB3216028106007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Gary just gave the url for the "loop video". The frustrating part of the video is that it updates after each 2.5 hours, so if there's neat stuff visible from 2 hours ago, it shortly disappears from the frames you can view. I've captured just a few of the individual frames myself; Gary, it's great that you've saved some and are stringing them together to made a viewable video. Y Dain, "effusive" is relative. The Mount St. Helens dacite magma is so viscous, that it never flows like a normal fluid. It squeezes up to form the dome as a stiff paste, and that's about all it does. Slightly hotter or less viscous lavas (or, if they are extruded at a bit faster rate, before the lava has time to cool very much) will flow and spread out to form a broader, flatter dome-like lava flow; some such flows, even of the usually very viscous rhyolite, have been called "cow-pie" (can you translate that into good French?) lava flows, from their shape as seen in an aerial view [not to be confused with "cow-dung bombs", which are small gobs of semi-viscous lava that are still soft enough to go "splat" when they land, But extrusion to form the steep-sided dome--the previous one from the early 1980's at MSH, or the present addition to it that is forming now--is as much "extrusion" as this type of lava is probably going to do. When portions of the side of the dome collapse, especially because the interior is still red-hot, pasty, gas-rich lava, it doesn't just form an ordinary rockfall or rockslide, but a "nuee ardente" glowing avalance (pyroclastic flow), because as the lava breaks free from the confining pressure within the dome, gases burst forth from all the fragments, fragmenting the lava still further and expanding and suspending them in the air and enhancing the travel of the fragments as a "glowing cloud", combined with the avalanche of rock fragments that travels over the ground, lubricating by the expanding cushion of hot gases. These potential pyroclastic flows (there were numerous small ones in the 1980s as the MSH dome was built) are probably the most dangerous--to the area immediate downhill from the crater--aspect of the current phase of eruption at Mt. St. Helens. Pyroclastic flows did a lot of damage during the 1991 eruptions of Mt. Pinatubo, in the Philippines. The "fin" of glowing semi-solid lava that was noted in news reports as being pushed up next to the dome back on Tuesday (and not well observed, due to steam and clouds), is very reminiscent of a famous past eruptive event in volcanological history; the famous "spine" which formed by extrusion of lava in 1902-03 at the summit of Mt. Pele, in Martinique. This was the volcano destroyed the nearby town of St. Pierre on that island in 1902, during part of the same eruption. Extrusion of viscous andesite lava pushed a large "spine" of massive, semi-solified lava out of the vent, to a height of nearly 1000 feet above the lava dome. A nuee ardente, avalaching off the growing lava dome in the crater of Mount Pele, was what killed 30,000 people in the seaport town of St. Pierre on May 8, 1902. Sincerely, Pete Modreski -------------- Original message from "Y Dain" : -------------- > could you give us the URL for cam on the volcano ? > > I sudy this volcano with school kids for his "explosive" eruptions !! If I > understand what you say all on the list, it became a effusive volcano with > lava flows ? > > regards and excuse me for my bad english ! > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at aloha.net Thu Oct 14 12:31:51 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Oct 14 12:03:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens In-Reply-To: <101420041824.7091.416EC46200053B2F00001BB3216028106007059C 0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <101420041824.7091.416EC46200053B2F00001BB3216028106007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041014092741.03618320@mail.aloha.net> At 08:24 AM 10/14/2004, pjmodreski wrote: >...The frustrating part of the video is that it updates after each 2.5 >hours, so if there's neat stuff visible from 2 hours ago, it shortly >disappears from the frames you can view. I've captured just a few of the >individual frames myself; Gary, it's great that you've saved some and are >stringing them together to made a viewable video. Also I found that you have to do "refresh" every 3 to 5 minutes in order to see the new images...at least on my computer. I'm sure all you folks who are more computer literate than I already knew that---which means just about everybody! Aloha, Kitty From kjvgorock at juno.com Thu Oct 14 15:58:33 2004 From: kjvgorock at juno.com (kjvgorock@juno.com) Date: Thu Oct 14 16:01:57 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD Iridescent Calcite Geodes Message-ID: <20041014.175834.260.6.kjvgorock@juno.com> Hi all, I know there's not a lot of Keokuk geode collectors out there - but I'm trying to inspire more... I posted some excellent Iridescent Brown Calcite Keokuk Geodes on EBAY - including a huge 6" diameter one with a 1-1/2" pink calcite pagoda sticking out of it. Here's the link: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQgotopageZ1QQsassZkvQ5fgoodrocksQQsosortorderZ 1QQsosortpropertyZ1 Thanks, Ken Vaisvil eBay ID: kv_goodrocks email: kjvgorock@juno.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Oct 14 16:40:37 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Oct 14 16:38:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens References: <416DE528.CB0@Tomaszewski.net> <002501c4b1a6$37487740$d4a5490c@pete> <003c01c4b203$96c00870$c82a24d5@bureau> Message-ID: <416F0DD3.125C@Tomaszewski.net> Y Dain wrote: > > could you give us the URL for cam on the volcano ? > > I sudy this volcano with school kids for his "explosive" eruptions !! If I > understand what you say all on the list, it became a effusive volcano with > lava flows ? > > regards and excuse me for my bad english ! > http://www.fs.fed.us/gpnf/volcanocams/msh/ It is building a new dome. From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Thu Oct 14 17:25:45 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Oct 14 17:25:57 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens In-Reply-To: <416DE528.CB0@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <200410150025.i9F0PpQK007365@bubbleator.drizzle.com> I'm rewarding myself for doing a NICE demo to a customer this afternoon. If you go to my Catspaw site you will see a link on the left to a "St. Helens" page. There you can either click the link on the left to view the image on the screen, or click on the other page links to download the movie I made by stringing together a bunch of JPEGs. Pick the set that matches your download speed. If you have a dial-up, you probably don't want to download the 16MB file! Here's the link to my site: http://www.catspaw-minerals.com These are "Windows Media" files, so you'll need the appropriate player to see 'em. At the top of the page is the current view from the VolcanoCam. Click on the image to go to that site. Enjoy! I'll update the site every couple of days as I add new images to the movies. Gary Brown Catspaw Minerals Home of the MasMils/PLUS Mine Location Disk From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Thu Oct 14 17:31:17 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Oct 14 17:31:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens In-Reply-To: <416DE528.CB0@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <200410150031.i9F0VLQK008634@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Oh yes... I forgot to mention... You'll see a handful of gaps in there: - before the lava started flowing I edited out the night-time shots. When that nice little blob showed up, I started keeping the night images in there. - The VolcanoCam goes down on occasion. I've edited out those pictures. - I had a router failure the other morning and didn't get around 4 hours of pictures. Just thought you might like to know... GcB From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Oct 14 20:26:03 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Oct 14 20:23:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: IMRMC Annual Silent Auction Message-ID: <416F428C.7B62@Tomaszewski.net> The Indian Mounds Rock and Mineral Club is holding their Annual Silent Auction starting at 7 pm on 19 October 2004 in Wyoming, Michigan, at Wesley Park United Methodist Church's Fellowship Hall on the corner of Michael and 32nd Street. The last table closes around 8:50. In addition to many rock and mineral specimens there will be a variety of lapidary equipment on auction at a special table. Bring your 'silver pick'. I hope some of you can join me and my Club at this annual event that always has some suprise specimens and good bargains. Kreigh Tomaszewski P.S., Please contact me off-list if you have any questions about this event. From geoamerica at hotmail.com Fri Oct 15 01:49:38 2004 From: geoamerica at hotmail.com (GeoAmerica TV) Date: Fri Oct 15 01:50:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds Documentary Message-ID: Hello everyone, my name is Todd Kent and I am producing/directing a feature length independent documentary film about rockhounding (through Explorer Multimedia Inc., a non-profit 501(c)(3) corporation ). I just wanted to introduce myself to some of the rockhounding community and let you guys know about the project. The film will include 4 to 5 stories/segments that feature unique & interesting takes on the hobby. I have already started production and plan to be completed with post-production in Feb. 2005. From there I plan to send the film out on the film festival circuit and I also plan to distribute it to any gem & mineral clubs that are interested in screening it at one of their shows or events. Hopefully if I can generate enough interest I can get some kind of distribution deal (home video/dvd or television). I plan to have the website for the documentary up soon but until then if anyone is interested in more information you can go here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rockhoundsmovie Thanks and I welcome any comments or input. Todd Kent _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From jr50wv at yahoo.com Fri Oct 15 08:31:36 2004 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Fri Oct 15 08:31:50 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcano-Cam movies Message-ID: <20041015153136.88547.qmail@web41014.mail.yahoo.com> Hi: The USGS is providing daily movies consisting of all the individual photos from the MSH Volcano Cam. There are also compressed files with all the individual photos from a day's observations available. The link is http://www.fs.fed.us/gpnf/volcanocams/msh/archive/eruptions.shtml There is also a site with high-resolution photos by USGS at: http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Volcanoes/MSH/Images/MSH04/ Hope you enjoy the "films" JR --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Fri Oct 15 08:37:08 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Fri Oct 15 08:37:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcano-Cam movies In-Reply-To: <20041015153136.88547.qmail@web41014.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200410151537.i9FFbKtx017663@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Heh, heh.... I found that, too. Fun Stuff. GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J. R. Hodel > Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 10:32 AM > To: Rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcano-Cam movies > > Hi: > > The USGS is providing daily movies consisting of all the > individual photos from the MSH Volcano Cam. There are also > compressed files with all the individual photos from a day's > observations available. The link is > > http://www.fs.fed.us/gpnf/volcanocams/msh/archive/eruptions.shtml > > There is also a site with high-resolution photos by USGS at: > > http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Volcanoes/MSH/Images/MSH04/ > > > Hope you enjoy the "films" > > JR > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From CrescentStoneINC at aol.com Fri Oct 15 08:57:25 2004 From: CrescentStoneINC at aol.com (CrescentStoneINC@aol.com) Date: Fri Oct 15 08:57:42 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Stromatolite Samples Message-ID: From: Crescent Stone Company 888-400-0094 The mailing of free samples begins. We are starting today with shipping with USPS, do you want us to add insurance or not? You will be responsible for shipping costs, not handling. Once notification of shipment has been Emailed to you, you can pay shipping costs through PayPal account crescentstoneinc@aol.com . We will be shipping what you can use example(sphere people get sphereable chunks, cab people will get cabable chunks with one 1/2" thick small slab) if you have any other needs please reply soon. Thank you all for your patience. Sincerely: Steve DeLong/Owner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Fri Oct 15 11:05:49 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Fri Oct 15 11:05:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcano-Cam movies Message-ID: <101520041805.5912.4170117D000808D400001718216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Hi, to J.R. & Gary & all, Well, here's someone at the USGS (me) who should have, but didn't, know that we had those past sequences available as archived cam movies to view. So, J.R., thanks, and now I now! (Hard to keep up with everything that's on these websites.) Gary, I went to your site and tried to view the movie but wondered what was wrong, because all I saw was a gray screen. So I went to the Johnston Ridge cam directly and then of course I realized, it's all foggy there today, there's nothing visible! (The loop sequence from this morning shows, first a low fog layer starting to rise upward, and then it obscures everything after 8:14 a.m.. But Gary, on your site, all I see is the current sequence from today--I don't see anyplace to go to, to get any of the past days' sequences--or are they not there yet (do I need to go back & reread your email?). In fact, I only seem to see the current image, I don't actually get your site to play any sequence of images. Thanks for all of this, Pete -------------- Original message from "J. R. Hodel" : -------------- > Hi: > > The USGS is providing daily movies consisting of all the individual photos from > the MSH Volcano Cam. There are also compressed files with all the individual > photos from a day's observations available. The link is > > http://www.fs.fed.us/gpnf/volcanocams/msh/archive/eruptions.shtml > > There is also a site with high-resolution photos by USGS at: > > http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Volcanoes/MSH/Images/MSH04/ > > > Hope you enjoy the "films" > > JR > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Fri Oct 15 11:18:39 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Fri Oct 15 11:18:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcano-Cam movies In-Reply-To: <101520041805.5912.4170117D000808D400001718216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <200410151818.i9FIIjTl000526@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Hi Pete, et. al. (heh, heh... I learned that in an oil company lease office, in another lifetime): The movies over on that left-hand link (the 2MB, 4MB, 16MB thingies) are from early last week up until yesterday afternoon. Enjoy! GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > pjmodreski@att.net > Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 1:06 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Volcano-Cam movies > > Hi, to J.R. & Gary & all, > >< snip> > > But Gary, on your site, all I see is the current sequence > from today--I don't see anyplace to go to, to get any of the > past days' sequences--or are they not there yet (do I need to > go back & reread your email?). In fact, I only seem to see > the current image, I don't actually get your site to play any > sequence of images. > > Thanks for all of this, > > Pete From pjmodreski at att.net Fri Oct 15 17:17:18 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Fri Oct 15 17:17:25 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcano-Cam movies Message-ID: <101620040017.25075.4170688E0007A707000061F3216038311607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Gary, I tried looking at your movies via my USGS internet connection but perhaps there is some incompatibility, because the 2/4/16 Mb files load (or at any rate, they seem to finish loading) but nothing happens, no movie appears and there's nothing to click on to start one. Sorry! Pete -------------- Original message from "Gary Brown" : -------------- > The movies over on that left-hand link (the 2MB, 4MB, 16MB thingies) are > from early last week up until yesterday afternoon. Enjoy! > > GcB > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rudy at proaxis.com Fri Oct 15 20:05:24 2004 From: rudy at proaxis.com (rudy) Date: Fri Oct 15 20:05:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Stromatolite Samples In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41708FF4.6080601@proaxis.com> Hi, I do not want insurance with usps mailings. Sphere maker. Thank you Rudy E. H. Rudisill 2605 S.W. 49th Street Corvallis, OR 97333-1326 CrescentStoneINC@aol.com wrote: >From: Crescent Stone Company >888-400-0094 > > >The mailing of free samples begins. We are starting today with shipping with >USPS, do you want us to add insurance or not? You will be responsible for >shipping costs, not handling. Once notification of shipment has been Emailed to >you, you can pay shipping costs through PayPal account >crescentstoneinc@aol.com . We will be shipping what you can use example(sphere people get >sphereable chunks, cab people will get cabable chunks with one 1/2" thick small slab) >if you have any other needs please reply soon. >Thank you all for your patience. > > >Sincerely: Steve DeLong/Owner > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rudy at proaxis.com Fri Oct 15 20:18:51 2004 From: rudy at proaxis.com (rudy) Date: Fri Oct 15 20:19:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Stromatolite Samples In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4170931B.3030605@proaxis.com> Hi, I do not want ins. on usps mailings. Sphere maker. Rudy E. H. Rudisill 2605 S.W. 49th Street Corvallis, OR 97333-1326 Thank You. CrescentStoneINC@aol.com wrote: >From: Crescent Stone Company >888-400-0094 > > >The mailing of free samples begins. We are starting today with shipping with >USPS, do you want us to add insurance or not? You will be responsible for >shipping costs, not handling. Once notification of shipment has been Emailed to >you, you can pay shipping costs through PayPal account >crescentstoneinc@aol.com . We will be shipping what you can use example(sphere people get >sphereable chunks, cab people will get cabable chunks with one 1/2" thick small slab) >if you have any other needs please reply soon. >Thank you all for your patience. > > >Sincerely: Steve DeLong/Owner > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Oct 15 22:24:13 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Oct 15 22:17:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds Documentary References: Message-ID: <4170AEE9.36E0@Tomaszewski.net> Hey List, I've already given Todd some of my reactions/ideas off-list (I tried to be constructive), and I hope you do too. But I want to share some opinions with the list. Soapbox please... We all have a responsibility to our shared hobby of 'Rockhounding' -- making sure there is another generation of Rockhounds to carry on our hobby, and also, making sure that our personal knowledge and lore is preserved because we have passed it on to many hobbiests, or to the public at large. Todd is taking on the harder 'public at large' hobby obligation that can only expand our hobby's interest. Clubs, Rockshops, and Collecting Locations, continue to disappear. We all need to be concerned with this issue, and support efforts that lead to growth whenever the opportunity arrives. Yes, it is late in Tod's production process, but I think we all still need to support his outreach, and offer our best ideas for short 'movie' segments (that will capture both our hobby _and_ the random viewer), because it is not yet too late to include an overlooked gem of inspiration. ...OK, you can put away the soapbox. Thanks for listening, and I hope you act. Kreigh GeoAmerica TV wrote: > > Hello everyone, my name is Todd Kent and I am producing/directing a feature > length independent documentary film about rockhounding (through Explorer > Multimedia Inc., a non-profit 501(c)(3) corporation ). > > I just wanted to introduce myself to some of the rockhounding community and > let you guys know about the project. The film will include 4 to 5 > stories/segments that feature unique & interesting takes on the hobby. I > have already started production and plan to be completed with > post-production in Feb. 2005. From there I plan to send the film out on the > film festival circuit and I also plan to distribute it to any gem & mineral > clubs that are interested in screening it at one of their shows or events. > > Hopefully if I can generate enough interest I can get some kind of > distribution deal (home video/dvd or television). I plan to have the > website for the documentary up soon but until then if anyone is interested > in more information you can go here: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rockhoundsmovie > > Thanks and I welcome any comments or input. > > Todd Kent From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Sat Oct 16 04:21:31 2004 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Sat Oct 16 04:16:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens References: <200410150031.i9F0VLQK008634@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <001601c4b372$4a603840$7e7ea118@feldsparflash> The quiet East Coast had a little excitement as a small earthquake near West Point caused some dish rattling in Beacon, NY. We can't compete with Mt. St. Helens; rockhounds here would sure like to field trip out there.. BTW The Mid Hudson Valley Gem & Mineral Society has a Show this weekend October 16-17 in Poughkeepsie, NY at the Mid-Hudson Civic Center. 10-5. Show Theme "Meteorittes"! Carolyn Reynard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Brown" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 8:31 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens > Oh yes... I forgot to mention... You'll see a handful of gaps in there: > > - before the lava started flowing I edited out the night-time shots. When > that nice little blob showed up, I started keeping the night images in > there. > > - The VolcanoCam goes down on occasion. I've edited out those pictures. > > - I had a router failure the other morning and didn't get around 4 hours of > pictures. > > Just thought you might like to know... > > GcB > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Sat Oct 16 02:19:19 2004 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Sat Oct 16 05:12:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Stromatolite Samples References: Message-ID: <000301c4b379$62245720$b44227c4@privatehome> Please do not insure the parcel. For payment I will be sending you US dollar bills or pay by VISA card. Not sure how to use Paypal. Kind regards, Horst ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Stromatolite Samples > From: Crescent Stone Company > 888-400-0094 > > > The mailing of free samples begins. We are starting today with shipping with > USPS, do you want us to add insurance or not? You will be responsible for > shipping costs, not handling. Once notification of shipment has been Emailed to > you, you can pay shipping costs through PayPal account > crescentstoneinc@aol.com . We will be shipping what you can use example(sphere people get > sphereable chunks, cab people will get cabable chunks with one 1/2" thick small slab) > if you have any other needs please reply soon. > Thank you all for your patience. > > > Sincerely: Steve DeLong/Owner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From stu at arcrystalmine.com Sat Oct 16 16:08:22 2004 From: stu at arcrystalmine.com (stu@arcrystalmine.com) Date: Sat Oct 16 16:08:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds Documentary References: <4170AEE9.36E0@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <001201c4b3d5$09db7600$6400a8c0@STUART> Have any of you had any dealing with Geoffrey Keyte? With appreciation & gratitude, Stuart Schmitt Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine www.arcrystalmine.com 60 Mary's Eagle Trail Mount Ida, AR 71957 (870) 867-2443 From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Sat Oct 16 18:08:38 2004 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sat Oct 16 18:27:31 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Please reinstate my address Message-ID: <001101c4b3e5$d693a720$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Glenn --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/gif --- From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Sat Oct 16 19:25:21 2004 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sat Oct 16 19:44:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] green rattlesnake References: <64.43a357cb.2e72f320@aol.com> <4141BE7B.8040307@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <001901c4b3f0$8d79a8e0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Sorry it took so long for this reply. My connection has been out since hurricane Ivan. Thank you sooo much for the snake info! I have always had an interest in herpetology along with most sciences. Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Guin" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 9:47 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] green rattlesnake > In a message dated 9/9/2004 5:30:02 PM Central Daylight Time, > > >pawpawtiger@mchsi.com writes: > >BTW you mentioned snakes, and We recently saw a GREEN rattlesnake. No > >mistake. His light green color blended almost perfectly with the rocks and > >vegetation at the I-70 road cut outside Denver that has great info posted > >along a trail about the various colored layers exposed in the cut.... Mr. > >Rattler did not take well at all to me & my video camera and put on a great > >show to warn me! Of course I ran out of tape right then. But my daughter got > >at least one good still picture. > > > > > > http://digital-desert.com/wildlife/mojave-green-rattlesnake.html > Mojave Rattlesnake > The often mis-named "Mojave Green" (Crotalus scutulatus) has the most > potent venom of any rattlesnake in North America. Its poison is about 16 > times more powerful than that of the Sidewinder. They can be identified > by their triangular-shaped head and diamond-shaped markings along their > body, and of course, rattles. They are brown in color in the lower > elevations and darken to a green in the higher regions near the > mountains. Their eggs hatch within them so anywhere from 4 to 24 baby > snakes are born live in a litter. > > Be careful out there > > Peace, > dave > > From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sun Oct 17 06:55:38 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sun Oct 17 06:56:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Contact sought Message-ID: <000601c4b450$fc2ff040$0100a8c0@maxdata> Hi all, I am trying to contact Kevin Conroy on the following e-mail adress (as mentioned on his website) : k.conroy@worldnet.att.net but it says "permanent fatal error : user unknown" Does anyone know how to contact him ? A fax number or alternative e-mail adress would be very welcome. Thanks for any help or suggestion. Best regards, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sun Oct 17 08:11:45 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sun Oct 17 08:12:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Contact sought In-Reply-To: <000601c4b450$fc2ff040$0100a8c0@maxdata> Message-ID: <001d01c4b45b$9e3a48e0$0100a8c0@maxdata> Sorry folks for mis-using this list, but I just wanted to let Kevin know that I get the following error message : The original message was received at Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:05:06 +0200 from localhost [127.0.0.1] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- (reason: 553 5.3.0 ... 532532 Read Error while talking to att.net) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to out-fallback.mx.skynet.be.: >>> DATA <<< 553 5.3.0 ... 532532 Read Error while talking to att.net 550 5.1.1 ... User unknown <<< 503 5.0.0 Need RCPT (recipient) I must say that I have had the same problem regularly also with other worldnet.att.net customers. Kevin, I have sent my message also to your work adress. Greetings to all (and sorry again for misusing the list). Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ From k.conroy at worldnet.att.net Sun Oct 17 12:40:13 2004 From: k.conroy at worldnet.att.net (Kevin Conroy) Date: Sun Oct 17 12:39:25 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Contact sought References: <001d01c4b45b$9e3a48e0$0100a8c0@maxdata> Message-ID: <001401c4b481$20376a60$a08e4a0c@kcmins> Hi Rik! Thank you for letting me know about the problem with my email. I'll contact the techs at ATT to see if they have a solution for this. All the best, Kevin www.kcminerals.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rik Dillen" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 10:11 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Contact sought > Sorry folks for mis-using this list, but I just wanted to let Kevin know that I get the following error message : > > The original message was received at Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:05:06 +0200 from localhost [127.0.0.1] > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > (reason: 553 5.3.0 ... 532532 Read Error while talking to att.net) > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > ... while talking to out-fallback.mx.skynet.be.: > >>> DATA > <<< 553 5.3.0 ... 532532 Read Error while talking to att.net 550 5.1.1 ... > User unknown <<< 503 5.0.0 Need RCPT (recipient) > > I must say that I have had the same problem regularly also with other worldnet.att.net customers. > > Kevin, I have sent my message also to your work adress. > Greetings to all (and sorry again for misusing the list). > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > Belgium > > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > >>> Belgian minerals > >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! > >>> Exchange list > > MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From DOMMELEN at DAL.CA Mon Oct 18 07:08:30 2004 From: DOMMELEN at DAL.CA (Ronnie Van Dommelen) Date: Mon Oct 18 07:30:19 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Canuck garnets Message-ID: <1098108510.4173ce5e5afe3@my2.dal.ca> Hi All, I am looking for information from other Canadian collectors and/or garnet lovers. What significant almandine localities are there in Canada, and what is the material like? Thanks in advance. Ronnie Van Dommelen From william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu Mon Oct 18 09:37:02 2004 From: william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu (William Cordua) Date: Mon Oct 18 09:37:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Texas Gypsum sand crystals? In-Reply-To: <1098108510.4173ce5e5afe3@my2.dal.ca> Message-ID: Hello, I recently bought a nice cluster of gypsum crystals with sand inclusions at our club's annual silent auction. The only locality data given was "Texas". Any one have some suggestions as to a more detailed location for this material? After all Texas IS a big place. Thanks - Dr. Bill Dr. William S. Cordua Professor of Geology/Mineralogy University of Wisconsin - River Falls 410 South Third Street River Falls, WI 54022 715-425-3139 william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu http://www.uwrf.edu/~william.s.cordua/ "Speak to the Earth and it shall teach thee" - Job 12:8 From tjokela at execulink.com Mon Oct 18 09:43:12 2004 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Mon Oct 18 09:43:19 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Canuck garnets References: <1098108510.4173ce5e5afe3@my2.dal.ca> Message-ID: <002501c4b531$8ec61e30$6401a8c0@Junior> River Valley, Ontario has produced almandine xls to 15 cm, http://www.ontariominerals.com/onmins-a.htm. The York River Skarn Zone, now a provincial park and no collecting allowed, has produced world-class grossular specimens, xls to 6cm or more, in specimens the size of dinner plates... to name a couple. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ronnie Van Dommelen" To: Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 10:08 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Canuck garnets > Hi All, > > I am looking for information from other Canadian collectors and/or garnet > lovers. What significant almandine localities are there in Canada, and > what is > the material like? Thanks in advance. > > Ronnie Van Dommelen > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Paintricks at aol.com Mon Oct 18 10:10:06 2004 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Mon Oct 18 10:10:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Texas Gypsum sand crystals? Message-ID: <15d.4157c276.2ea552ee@aol.com> Hi Dr. Bill We have selenite(gypsum) crystals in North East Texas at Big Sandy. These are surface growing and blade shaped. They usually grow in a starburst pattern but break away from that pattern when you pick them up. They are usually millimeters to 2 to 3 inches in length. They are straited and milky to transparent. We have a lot of salt and iron ore associated with them in this area. The crystals seem to grow rather quickly as long as they are not disturbed. I go there every year and find new pieces. People like to ride dirt bikes and 4 wheel drives so they get hammered. Guess we are not all rockhounds. Another interesting rock that are there are iron ore balls resembling hemitite(Moqui) marbles. They are made of a harder red iron ore sand stone coating with a fine powder sugar sand interior. Rock gum balls I guess would be the best way to describe them but aren't nearly as stable or solid as the real Moqui's. Hope this helps. Kevin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Bobg532 at netscape.net Mon Oct 18 12:33:34 2004 From: Bobg532 at netscape.net (Bob G) Date: Mon Oct 18 12:33:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Texas Gypsum sand crystals? In-Reply-To: <15d.4157c276.2ea552ee@aol.com> References: <15d.4157c276.2ea552ee@aol.com> Message-ID: <41741A8E.20209@netscape.net> Hi, On a geology trip in the early sixties that included the NE Texas iron area we came across some ferrugineous concretions. A few of them sloshed when shaken. Back in the lab we analyzed the contents including immersion oils and found some of the slurry was siderite! A surprise scince expected hematite/limonite. Bob G. Paintricks@aol.com wrote: >Hi Dr. Bill > We have selenite(gypsum) crystals in North East Texas at Big Sandy. These >are surface growing and blade shaped. They usually grow in a starburst >pattern but break away from that pattern when you pick them up. They are usually >millimeters to 2 to 3 inches in length. They are straited and milky to >transparent. > We have a lot of salt and iron ore associated with them in this area. The >crystals seem to grow rather quickly as long as they are not disturbed. I go >there every year and find new pieces. People like to ride dirt bikes and 4 >wheel drives so they get hammered. Guess we are not all rockhounds. > Another interesting rock that are there are iron ore balls resembling >hemitite(Moqui) marbles. They are made of a harder red iron ore sand stone coating >with a fine powder sugar sand interior. Rock gum balls I guess would be the >best way to describe them but aren't nearly as stable or solid as the real >Moqui's. Hope this helps. > Kevin > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From danweinrich at charter.net Mon Oct 18 18:56:52 2004 From: danweinrich at charter.net (Dan Weinrich) Date: Mon Oct 18 18:57:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ad - New Live Auctions at Dan Weinrich Minerals References: <15d.4157c276.2ea552ee@aol.com> <41741A8E.20209@netscape.net> Message-ID: <04b901c4b57e$e75a5460$6601a8c0@S0029989181> I have just added two new galleries of specimens from the Marvin Pearce collection to the website. There are some neat specimens to be had! Beginning Tuesday, October 19, at 5 p.m. central standard time, my first "Live Auction" will begin. The auction will last seven days; there are 40 specimens to be offered. Be sure to check this out and register (it is free!). Should you have any questions please contact me. Also keep in mind that all of the specimens in the three Reverse Auctions are now at 80% discount off the list price. Hope that you enjoy the new specimens! Dan Weinrich http://www.danweinrich.com From afox at drizzle.com Tue Oct 19 09:04:49 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Tue Oct 19 09:05:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Subscribing to Spheres Message-ID: Greetings, I have been noticing a lot of bounced subscribe attempts trying to get the rockhounds email alias added to the Spheres E-Group at Yahoo! Groups. If you, as a member of the list, are doing this (i.e. trying to invite or subscribe the alias), please stop RIGHT NOW. We've already gone through this bull***t with Egroups and other 'archivers' in the past. The Rockhounds list is a stand-alone entity, and *I* want no part of Yahoo! or any other commerical service. Sorry to be blunt, but after about 10 failed subscribe attempts, I figure somebody is just not getting the subtle message. Aaron Rockhounds Admin Oh, BTW, please, no replys or responses to this on-list; it's merely an administrative post. If you feel the need to respond, please use the email address below | | | v -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From xlinda_jbx at yahoo.com Sat Oct 16 12:29:04 2004 From: xlinda_jbx at yahoo.com (Linda Borger) Date: Tue Oct 19 09:08:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Newbie Needs Help Message-ID: <20041016192904.82453.qmail@web20923.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, All: I am a VERY NEW rockhound in the making. My friend, Phil, opened up my mind to quantum physics in general and rocks/minerals in particular. By letting me observe some of his experiments on separating properties in Paramelaconite, and educating me in a “user-friendly” way, I’m wanting to learn more. However, my problem is that I don’t want to wear out my welcome when I visit him by asking so many questions. So, I’m putting the word out there that, although the interest is definitely there, I don’t know where to start. Anybody willing to help me out by sharing tips, expertise, etc.? Thanks for taking the time to read this. Linda Borger Xlinda_jbx@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Tue Oct 19 09:29:08 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Oct 19 09:29:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: I need to make my mortgage sale In-Reply-To: <20041016192904.82453.qmail@web20923.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041016192904.82453.qmail@web20923.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041019092040.02565b70@mail.spiritone.com> Due to extreme financial conditions (aka this !*&@#$ economy) I am offering every lapidary material listed on the two pages linked below for 50% off through midnight PDT, Friday, October 22nd, only if you use PayPal (sorry, no eChecks, they take a week to clear, unfortunately). Yes I need the cash fast :) Just order half of what you want with the PayPal cart buttons and I will double the quantity. The sale includes Dust Devil sunstones. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Sunstones: http://OreRockOn.com/sunstone.htm From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Oct 19 10:16:37 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Oct 19 10:16:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Newbie Needs Help Message-ID: <101920041716.14399.41754BF4000CC9780000383F215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Linda, I'll post this reply to the whole group, and then I'll write back with some material to your individual address. In addition to being a member of the Rockhounds listserv, I'm a geologist with the USGS, in Denver CO, and I am (partly) responsible for public earth science contacts and educational outreach; among other things, I help answer questions that come to us from the public, and from teachers and students, etc. I'd be happy to help answer questions (within reason!) from you or from anyone; you may write to me c/o my USGS email address, pmodreski@usgs.gov, as well as the personal address from which I receive mail from the Rockhounds group, pjmodreski@att.net . I am going to write back to you and forward as attachements a couple of pages of information I have and use as handouts to teachers and others, with some general information about rocks and minerals, and list of websites of useful information pertaining to rocks and minerals; perhaps some of this well be of help to you. best regards (and have fun learning about minerals!), Pete Modreski -------------- Original message from Linda Borger : -------------- > > > > Hi, All: > > > > I am a VERY NEW rockhound in the making. My friend, Phil, opened up my mind to > quantum physics in general and rocks/minerals in particular. By letting me > observe some of his experiments on separating properties in Paramelaconite, and > educating me in a “user-friendly” way, I’m wanting to learn more. However, my > problem is that I don’t want to wear out my welcome when I visit him by asking > so many questions. So, I’m putting the word out there that, although the > interest is definitely there, I don’t know where to start. Anybody willing to > help me out by sharing tips, expertise, etc.? Thanks for taking the time to > read this. > > > > Linda Borger > > Xlinda_jbx@yahoo.com > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From ahelms at pdx.edu Tue Oct 19 10:45:52 2004 From: ahelms at pdx.edu (ahelms@pdx.edu) Date: Tue Oct 19 10:46:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Newbie Needs Help In-Reply-To: <101920041716.14399.41754BF4000CC9780000383F215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <101920041716.14399.41754BF4000CC9780000383F215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <1098207952.417552d01b5d1@webmail.pdx.edu> Hi Pete, I have a quick question for you. I'm not sure what the circumstances are like in Colorado, but do you know if it is difficult to get a student position at USGS? I am applying for the Portland, OR area and Vancouver, WA, however, it doesn't ever seem like there are positions available. I was just checking to see if you have any advice. Thank you, Alicia Helms Quoting pjmodreski@att.net: > Linda, > > I'll post this reply to the whole group, and then I'll write back with some > material to your individual address. > > In addition to being a member of the Rockhounds listserv, I'm a geologist > with the USGS, in Denver CO, and I am (partly) responsible for public earth > science contacts and educational outreach; among other things, I help answer > questions that come to us from the public, and from teachers and students, > etc. > > I'd be happy to help answer questions (within reason!) from you or from > anyone; you may write to me c/o my USGS email address, pmodreski@usgs.gov, as > well as the personal address from which I receive mail from the Rockhounds > group, pjmodreski@att.net . I am going to write back to you and forward as > attachements a couple of pages of information I have and use as handouts to > teachers and others, with some general information about rocks and minerals, > and list of websites of useful information pertaining to rocks and minerals; > perhaps some of this well be of help to you. > > best regards (and have fun learning about minerals!), > Pete Modreski > > > -------------- Original message from Linda Borger : -------------- > > > > > > > > > Hi, All: > > > > > > > > I am a VERY NEW rockhound in the making. My friend, Phil, opened up my mind > to > > quantum physics in general and rocks/minerals in particular. By letting me > > > observe some of his experiments on separating properties in Paramelaconite, > and > > educating me in a ?user-friendly? way, I?m wanting to learn more. However, > my > > problem is that I don?t want to wear out my welcome when I visit him by > asking > > so many questions. So, I?m putting the word out there that, although the > > interest is definitely there, I don?t know where to start. Anybody willing > to > > help me out by sharing tips, expertise, etc.? Thanks for taking the time to > > > read this. > > > > > > > > Linda Borger > > > > Xlinda_jbx@yahoo.com > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 19 11:34:27 2004 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Tue Oct 19 11:34:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Newbie Needs Help In-Reply-To: <20041016192904.82453.qmail@web20923.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20041019183427.29208.qmail@web51001.mail.yahoo.com> THe first thing you should do is join a local club and get involved. There are always experienced members in every club who are willing (and even anxious) to share their expertise. A lot of clubs also run field trips, since their group insurance allows them to get in to places individuals aren't allowed. Check the American Federation website to find a club near you. You can find a link on Bob's Rock Shop www.rockhounds.com Jim Daly Sauktown Sales www.sauktown.com --- Linda Borger wrote: > > > > Hi, All: > > > > I am a VERY NEW rockhound in the making. My friend, > Phil, opened up my mind to quantum physics in > general and rocks/minerals in particular. By > letting me observe some of his experiments on > separating properties in Paramelaconite, and > educating me in a “user-friendly” way, I’m wanting > to learn more. However, my problem is that I don’t > want to wear out my welcome when I visit him by > asking so many questions. So, I’m putting the word > out there that, although the interest is definitely > there, I don’t know where to start. Anybody willing > to help me out by sharing tips, expertise, etc.? > Thanks for taking the time to read this. > > > > Linda Borger > > Xlinda_jbx@yahoo.com > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Oct 19 14:32:46 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Oct 19 15:06:49 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] student jobs with USGS? Message-ID: <101920042132.14867.417587FD0008ECAB00003A13216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Dear Alicia, I'll post this reply to the whole list, since it's all public information, and might conceivably be of interest to someone else out there among the "Rockhounds". You are right, we really don't have all that many student jobs available at the USGS. However, we do have some, and if you are persistent and keep checking, you might find one in your area. I just talked with one of our USGS personnel staff about this. She says, we do hire a number of students for summer field type work, and that most of these jobs, won't be advertized until sometime around the early spring (Feb.-Mar.-April); so, her advice as I said, is to keep checking online about it. When a job is offered, it will typically only be open to apply for, for a few weeks, so it's easy to miss something if you don't look frequently. The website to check, I'm told (I've just looked at it, too), is http://www.usajobs.opm.gov, which is a general website for all Federal jobs from any agencies, throughout the country (is this what you've used before?). You can search for jobs there by specifying a geographic location, a job type, and "keywords". I tried just specifying "usgs" as the keyword, nationwide, and got about 30 jobs, but all were permanent positions (some scientific, some administrative or clerical). A separate place you can search is http://www.studentjobs.gov, which gives you a similar-format search menu, but specifically searches for student jobs. I just looked at that site and tried searching there; it doesn't come up with anything that I could find, for "usgs". When I searched for "WA" without specifying anything about job type it came up with 3 jobs, two of which were groups of student-intern positions with the National Resource Conservation Service, NRCS (formerly the Soil Conservation Service)--well, that's almost close to geology. When I searched for CO, unspecified, it only showed one student job, that was for a clerk with the U.S. Attorney's office. But as my Personnel contact said, any student field positions for next summer, would not be posted yet anyway. If you go to the USGS website and click on "jobs", then "student employment", then "apply for student jobs", it just gives you a list of personnel offices in the different regions of the country and their phone numbers, of which the one for Colorado, for example, would get you to the woman in Personnel whom I just called, and she, though very helpful, would mostly refer you to the above web sites. So it is, as you say, a little hard to locate any of the fairly limited number of student jobs that might be out there. Keep trying! If I think of any other good suggestions for you, I'll write back. Sincerely, Pete Modreski - USGS, pmodreski@usgs.gov -------------- Original message from ahelms@pdx.edu: -------------- > Hi Pete, > > I have a quick question for you. I'm not sure what the circumstances are like > in Colorado, but do you know if it is difficult to get a student position at > USGS? I am applying for the Portland, OR area and Vancouver, WA, however, it > doesn't ever seem like there are positions available. I was just checking to > see if you have any advice. > > Thank you, > Alicia Helms > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu Tue Oct 19 15:43:15 2004 From: william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu (William Cordua) Date: Tue Oct 19 15:43:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Newbie Needs Help In-Reply-To: <20041016192904.82453.qmail@web20923.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Linda, People ask me questions all the time. If I don't know the answer, I'll make something up! No, seriously, feel free to bounce things off me on or off-list. This list is also a great and knowledgeable place to put specific questions. They start some of the most interesting threads. Best wishes -Dr. Bill Dr. William S. Cordua Professor of Geology/Mineralogy University of Wisconsin - River Falls 410 South Third Street River Falls, WI 54022 715-425-3139 william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu http://www.uwrf.edu/~william.s.cordua/ "Speak to the Earth and it shall teach thee" - Job 12:8 on 10/16/04 2:29 PM, Linda Borger at xlinda_jbx@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > Hi, All: > > > > I am a VERY NEW rockhound in the making. My friend, Phil, opened up my mind > to quantum physics in general and rocks/minerals in particular. By letting me > observe some of his experiments on separating properties in Paramelaconite, > and educating me in a ?user-friendly? way, I?m wanting to learn more. > However, my problem is that I don?t want to wear out my welcome when I visit > him by asking so many questions. So, I?m putting the word out there that, > although the interest is definitely there, I don?t know where to start. > Anybody willing to help me out by sharing tips, expertise, etc.? Thanks for > taking the time to read this. > > > > Linda Borger > > Xlinda_jbx@yahoo.com > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From BeeBeeBarr at aol.com Tue Oct 19 22:32:28 2004 From: BeeBeeBarr at aol.com (BeeBeeBarr@aol.com) Date: Tue Oct 19 22:32:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Canuck garnets Message-ID: <59DB986C.26C857E6.0A970CBF@aol.com> Hi, Ronnie, You probably don't remember me, but I think we met during the Bluenose II CCFMS trip in Nova Scotia years ago. Anyway, I collect in Canada as much as I can and have a major garnet thing. Here's what crumbs of lore I can offer: 1. Check out the Ann Sabina books -- she lists dozens of garnet localities in most of 'em. She doesn't usually specify which garnets (except the occasional grossular) but you can usually make an educated guess from the rock formation listed -- i.e. if it's schist or gneiss it's probably almandine; "crystalline limestone" usually hosts grossular; skarns most likely have andradite or ferrian grossular; pegmatites could hold spessartine or almandine; mafic igneous rocks might mean pyrope; a chromite occurrence could indicate uvarovite, though I don't know for sure if there are any localities for this garnet in Canada. 2. Significant occurrences I know something about: --the River Valley, Ontario almandines Tim mentioned are not just big but very attractive, with striated "terraced" dodecahedron faces and good winey color; they are often in clusters, from a biotite schist I think. --Laniel, Quebec has produced some nice sized (I've seen 'em to 5 cm at least), sharply crystallized dodecahedra of a good dark red. --the MacDonald occurrence (a farm, I believe) at Markstay, Ontario has produced good dark red-brown dodecahedra to a couple of centimeters or more. --the Marmoraton Iron Mine at Marmora, near Madoc, Ontario, yielded lots of aggregates of drusy trapezohedral crystals 1-2 cm or so on a massive garnet matrix, colored dark red to brown to purplish to black. I remember seeing analyses (probably in an old Min. Record) showing these to be a mixture of almandine, andradite, and probably grossular, but with more almandine than the others, if memory serves. --at Medicine Lake, Ontario, our group collected some nice almandines this summer from a small pegmatite, mostly little dodecs but some up to 2+ centimeters, a nice red to purply color, associated with dark smoky quartz and nearly white K-feldspar. I hope you get some more responses! It would be good info to inspire future field trips as well as general garnet appreciation. Bill Barr Ann Arbor, Michigan "Will Work For Minerals" From Lapidry at aol.com Wed Oct 20 04:55:52 2004 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Wed Oct 20 04:56:15 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rochester, NY Gem & Mineral Show Message-ID: <12c.4e8f0833.2ea7ac48@aol.com> I just wanted to let anyone interested know that this is the weekend of our show. Details are below: October 23-24: 34th Rochester Gem, Mineral and Fossil show. Sponsored by the Rochester Lapidary Society and the RAS Mineral Section. Minerals, Fossils, Gems, Jewelry, Beads, Tools, Rough Stone and Lots More! Free Kids? Activities! Free Demonstrations! At Minett Hall at the Dome Center/Monroe County Fairgrounds (Hylan Drive Exit off 390 to Calkins Road) Henrietta, NY. Saturday 10-6, Sunday 10-5. For more info, contact Larry Shulmann: 585-271-6967, namluhcs@aol.com Thank you for your time, hope to see you there.... Dan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Lapadary at aol.com Wed Oct 20 12:17:00 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Wed Oct 20 12:17:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Canuck garnets Message-ID: <62.46dbd023.2ea813ac@aol.com> In a message dated 10/19/04 10:32:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time, BeeBeeBarr@aol.com writes: I hope you get some more responses! It would be good info to inspire future field trips as well as general garnet appreciation. ======================== A month or two back a person sent information to this list, well maybe another list, about Wrangell garnets that were for sale. {Yes, I know Wrangell is Alaska, not Canada.} When I inquired about the prices she sent a Zipped file full of JPGs of garnets -- garnets in mica shiest and single garnets. I bought a couple for a reasonable price. I still have the jpg's on my hard drive if anybody is interested in seeing them. Also, if anyone want to buy nice Wrangell garnets I will send them the persons name and email off list. For what it is worth -- I had no connection, personal or business, with the person selling the garnets. Now I am a satisfied customer but that is still my only relationship with the seller. Grant Johnston, Chico, CA --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From morningstar at att.net Wed Oct 20 13:42:12 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Wed Oct 20 13:54:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Jay Lininger, publisher of Matrix, passed away In-Reply-To: <59DB986C.26C857E6.0A970CBF@aol.com> References: <59DB986C.26C857E6.0A970CBF@aol.com> Message-ID: <4176CDA4.1040200@att.net> Greetings to all, I bear sad news. Jay Lininger, noted collector, lecturer, and "mover & shaker" has passed away. He was known to many as the publisher of Matrix, but as I correspond with others in the community via phone and e-mail, I find that the stories about him are endless and everyone has noted that his passing leaves a gap that will not likely be filled. His latest pending project was the publication of a handbook on mineral ID for beginners, and another issue of Matrix that was ready to go out. Needless to say, I am not the person who knew him best, but I hadn't seen anything on the lists so I wanted to inform all those who hadn't heard. I am certain there will be detailed obituaries in Rocks & Minerals, Mineralogical Record, and other major publications. He was always supportive of my efforts and I will miss him at Rochester this year. I don't know if he had children, but I do know he leaves a loving widow behind. I do not have details on any memorials or ceremonies, but if anyone hears of such, please let us know. Friends, do all that you can, while you can. We never know when we will be called. Yours truly, Don J. Halterman, Jr. From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Wed Oct 20 18:02:35 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Wed Oct 20 18:02:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Jay Lininger, publisher of Matrix, passed away References: <59DB986C.26C857E6.0A970CBF@aol.com> <4176CDA4.1040200@att.net> Message-ID: <004d01c4b709$a6f85de0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> That is very sad, indeed. This past year I had traded him a suite of Kentucky and Indiana minerals for a bundle of back issues of "Matrix." He had been pestering me off and on for the last decade or so about writing an article on the Troost Mineral Collection. While I am not optimistic, I hope someone will consider continuing the publication. Alan G ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don H" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" ; ; ; Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 4:42 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Jay Lininger, publisher of Matrix, passed away > > Greetings to all, > > > I bear sad news. Jay Lininger, noted collector, lecturer, and "mover & > shaker" has passed away. He was known to many as the publisher of Matrix, > but as I correspond with others in the community via phone and e-mail, I > find that the stories about him are endless and everyone has noted that > his passing leaves a gap that will not likely be filled. His latest > pending project was the publication of a handbook on mineral ID for > beginners, and another issue of Matrix that was ready to go out. > > Needless to say, I am not the person who knew him best, but I hadn't seen > anything on the lists so I wanted to inform all those who hadn't heard. I > am certain there will be detailed obituaries in Rocks & Minerals, > Mineralogical Record, and other major publications. > > He was always supportive of my efforts and I will miss him at Rochester > this year. I don't know if he had children, but I do know he leaves a > loving widow behind. I do not have details on any memorials or > ceremonies, but if anyone hears of such, please let us know. > > Friends, do all that you can, while you can. We never know when we will > be called. > > > Yours truly, > > Don J. Halterman, Jr. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Oct 20 20:17:54 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Oct 20 20:17:57 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Canuck garnets References: <1098108510.4173ce5e5afe3@my2.dal.ca> Message-ID: <41772A60.5C5F@Tomaszewski.net> Ronnie Van Dommelen wrote: > > Hi All, > > I am looking for information from other Canadian collectors and/or garnet > lovers. What significant almandine localities are there in Canada, and what is > the material like? Thanks in advance. > > Ronnie Van Dommelen Ronnie, Go to MinDat.org and look up the various types of garnets. You will have the opportunity to display locations. Do so, and follow-up on those in Canada. The optional photo galleries will give you an idea of what can be collected. Kreigh From hptdesigns at charter.net Wed Oct 20 23:49:27 2004 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Wed Oct 20 23:48:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Jay Lininger, publisher of Matrix, passed away In-Reply-To: <4176CDA4.1040200@att.net> Message-ID: <394f2f$dekqke@mxip13a.cluster1.charter.net> It is indeed sad news---I met him at Rochester this past year and talked with him for a few hours and found him to be one of the most interesting individuals I had ever met. And what a fine magazine he published. Tommy Armstrong > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Don H > Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 4:42 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors; RockhoundsList@yahoogroups.com; > rockhounds@yahoogroups.com; rocksandfossils@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Jay Lininger, publisher of Matrix, passed away > > > Greetings to all, > > > I bear sad news. Jay Lininger, noted collector, lecturer, and > "mover & shaker" has passed away. He was known to many as > the publisher of Matrix, but as I correspond with others in > the community via phone and e-mail, I find that the stories > about him are endless and everyone has noted that his passing > leaves a gap that will not likely be filled. His latest > pending project was the publication of a handbook on mineral > ID for beginners, and another issue of Matrix that was ready > to go out. > > Needless to say, I am not the person who knew him best, but I > hadn't seen anything on the lists so I wanted to inform all > those who hadn't heard. I am certain there will be detailed > obituaries in Rocks & Minerals, Mineralogical Record, and > other major publications. > > He was always supportive of my efforts and I will miss him at > Rochester this year. I don't know if he had children, but I > do know he leaves a loving widow behind. I do not have > details on any memorials or ceremonies, but if anyone hears > of such, please let us know. > > Friends, do all that you can, while you can. We never know > when we will be called. > > > Yours truly, > > Don J. Halterman, Jr. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rik.dillen at skynet.be Thu Oct 21 10:11:37 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Thu Oct 21 14:13:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Jay Lininger, publisher of Matrix, passed away In-Reply-To: <4176CDA4.1040200@att.net> Message-ID: <000601c4b791$0cb1db20$7902c850@maxdata> Very sad indeed. I spoke to him last february in Tucson, and ordered all back issues of Matrix (for our club's library). On 28 March he confirmed my order by e-mail, but since then I never heart back from him (I have sent e-mail messages in july and in august). I'm wondering wether Matrix will survive ? Best regards to you all. Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Don H *Sent: woensdag 20 oktober 2004 22:42 *To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem *collectors; RockhoundsList@yahoogroups.com; *rockhounds@yahoogroups.com; rocksandfossils@yahoogroups.com *Subject: [Rockhounds] Jay Lininger, publisher of Matrix, passed away * * * *Greetings to all, * * *I bear sad news. Jay Lininger, noted collector, lecturer, and "mover & *shaker" has passed away. He was known to many as the publisher of *Matrix, but as I correspond with others in the community via phone and *e-mail, I find that the stories about him are endless and everyone has *noted that his passing leaves a gap that will not likely be *filled. His *latest pending project was the publication of a handbook on mineral ID *for beginners, and another issue of Matrix that was ready to go out. * *Needless to say, I am not the person who knew him best, but I hadn't *seen anything on the lists so I wanted to inform all those who hadn't *heard. I am certain there will be detailed obituaries in Rocks & *Minerals, Mineralogical Record, and other major publications. * *He was always supportive of my efforts and I will miss him at *Rochester *this year. I don't know if he had children, but I do know he leaves a *loving widow behind. I do not have details on any memorials or *ceremonies, but if anyone hears of such, please let us know. * *Friends, do all that you can, while you can. We never know *when we will *be called. * * *Yours truly, * *Don J. Halterman, Jr. * * * * *_______________________________________________ *Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List *WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds *Subscription Services: *http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds * * From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Oct 21 17:33:31 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Oct 21 17:33:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel Emmermann for Recovering Priceless MoonRocks Message-ID: <41785554.47BF@Tomaszewski.net> On May 7,2002, Axel Emmermann, a 'rockhound' in Belgium, received an offer of 'moonrocks' for sale. As documented at... http://www.latimes.com/features/printedition/magazine/la-tm-moonrocks23jun06.2362043.story?coll=la-headlines-magazine ...(and many! other websites) he responded, contacted "The Authorities" in the United States, and set up a 'sting'. The result was the arrest, and conviction, of the criminals who stole the moonrock specimens from NASA (and destroyed unrecoverable research data), and the recovery of all of the lost, and priceless, moonrock specimens covering almost every Lunar Expedition. You may remember that I started a campaign... http://www.Tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Minerals/MoonRocks.shtml ...to honor Axel for his efforts, and suggested that he should receive an honarary 'moonrock' specimen, as was given to every 'Head of State' (shortly after they were collected), as a 'Thank You!' for single-handedly recovering specimens that are the treasure of all humanity. We didn't get Axel a moonrock, but I am most pleased to let you know that NASA recently responded by presenting an orbited Belgian Flag to Axel with their thanks... http://www.Tomaszewski.net/Images/NASA1.jpg http://www.Tomaszewski.net/Images/NASA2.jpg I want to thank all of you that contributed to this effort by contacting NASA and American politicians to ask that Axel be honored for his contributions. It is good to see honesty, integrity, and initiative recognized. Please join me in saluting Axel, and his Flag. The honor is well deserved and needs to be recognized. Kreigh Tomaszewski From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Thu Oct 21 18:04:37 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Thu Oct 21 18:04:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel Emmermann for Recovering PricelessMoonRocks References: <41785554.47BF@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <002e01c4b7d3$1afb3630$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Great! Unfortunately with this url (http://www.latimes.com/features/printedition/magazine/la-tm-moonrocks23jun06.2362043.story?coll=la-headlines-magazine) I got a page saying that I could only read the story with a password. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Cc: ; "LapidaryArtsDigest" ; ; Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 8:33 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel Emmermann for Recovering PricelessMoonRocks > On May 7,2002, Axel Emmermann, a 'rockhound' in Belgium, received an > offer of 'moonrocks' for sale. As documented at... > > > http://www.latimes.com/features/printedition/magazine/la-tm-moonrocks23jun06.2362043.story?coll=la-headlines-magazine > > ...(and many! other websites) he responded, contacted "The Authorities" > in the United States, and set up a 'sting'. The result was the arrest, > and conviction, of the criminals who stole the moonrock specimens from > NASA (and destroyed unrecoverable research data), and the recovery of > all of the lost, and priceless, moonrock specimens covering almost every > Lunar Expedition. > > You may remember that I started a campaign... > > http://www.Tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Minerals/MoonRocks.shtml > > ...to honor Axel for his efforts, and suggested that he should receive > an honarary 'moonrock' specimen, as was given to every 'Head of State' > (shortly after they were collected), as a 'Thank You!' for > single-handedly recovering specimens that are the treasure of all > humanity. > > We didn't get Axel a moonrock, but I am most pleased to let you know > that NASA recently responded by presenting an orbited Belgian Flag to > Axel with their thanks... > > http://www.Tomaszewski.net/Images/NASA1.jpg > http://www.Tomaszewski.net/Images/NASA2.jpg > > I want to thank all of you that contributed to this effort by contacting > NASA and American politicians to ask that Axel be honored for his > contributions. > > It is good to see honesty, integrity, and initiative recognized. Please > join me in saluting Axel, and his Flag. The honor is well deserved and > needs to be recognized. > > Kreigh Tomaszewski > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kadok at infowest.com Thu Oct 21 18:34:18 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Thu Oct 21 18:34:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel Emmermann for Recovering PricelessMoonRocks In-Reply-To: <41785554.47BF@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <20041022013414.15B40CB9BAD@delivery.infowest.com> HEY! ---------HOORAY FOR AXEL!------ AND MANY THANKS! Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kreigh Tomaszewski Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 5:34 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Cc: MineralCollecting@yahoogroups.com; LapidaryArtsDigest; rockhounds@yahoogroups.com; LapidaryList@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel Emmermann for Recovering PricelessMoonRocks On May 7,2002, Axel Emmermann, a 'rockhound' in Belgium, received an offer of 'moonrocks' for sale. As documented at... http://www.latimes.com/features/printedition/magazine/la-tm-moonrocks23jun06 .2362043.story?coll=la-headlines-magazine ...(and many! other websites) he responded, contacted "The Authorities" in the United States, and set up a 'sting'. The result was the arrest, and conviction, of the criminals who stole the moonrock specimens from NASA (and destroyed unrecoverable research data), and the recovery of all of the lost, and priceless, moonrock specimens covering almost every Lunar Expedition. You may remember that I started a campaign... http://www.Tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Minerals/MoonRocks.shtml ...to honor Axel for his efforts, and suggested that he should receive an honarary 'moonrock' specimen, as was given to every 'Head of State' (shortly after they were collected), as a 'Thank You!' for single-handedly recovering specimens that are the treasure of all humanity. We didn't get Axel a moonrock, but I am most pleased to let you know that NASA recently responded by presenting an orbited Belgian Flag to Axel with their thanks... http://www.Tomaszewski.net/Images/NASA1.jpg http://www.Tomaszewski.net/Images/NASA2.jpg I want to thank all of you that contributed to this effort by contacting NASA and American politicians to ask that Axel be honored for his contributions. It is good to see honesty, integrity, and initiative recognized. Please join me in saluting Axel, and his Flag. The honor is well deserved and needs to be recognized. Kreigh Tomaszewski _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Oct 21 19:16:23 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Oct 21 19:16:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel Emmermann for Recovering PricelessMoonRocks References: <41785554.47BF@Tomaszewski.net> <002e01c4b7d3$1afb3630$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <41786D61.26B2@Tomaszewski.net> Interesting. If I do a search on Google for "NASA Axel Emmermann Moonrocks" I find an entry about 5 down headlined "Sheer Lunancy" that is the link to the article referenced. If I go to the link from Google it still works; it may work for you too -- give it a try. BTW, I've never registered at their website. And if that still doesn't work, the other links returned from the search will tell you all that is in the article. but you may have to check a couple of them to get the whole story (which is why I selected the link I did). Kreigh Alan Goldstein wrote: > > Great! > > Unfortunately with this url > (http://www.latimes.com/features/printedition/magazine/la-tm-moonrocks23jun06.2362043.story?coll=la-headlines-magazine) > I got a page saying that I could only read the story with a password. > > Alan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Cc: ; "LapidaryArtsDigest" > ; ; > > Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 8:33 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel Emmermann for Recovering > PricelessMoonRocks > > > On May 7,2002, Axel Emmermann, a 'rockhound' in Belgium, received an > > offer of 'moonrocks' for sale. As documented at... > > > > > > http://www.latimes.com/features/printedition/magazine/la-tm-moonrocks23jun06.2362043.story?coll=la-headlines-magazine > > > > ...(and many! other websites) he responded, contacted "The Authorities" > > in the United States, and set up a 'sting'. The result was the arrest, > > and conviction, of the criminals who stole the moonrock specimens from > > NASA (and destroyed unrecoverable research data), and the recovery of > > all of the lost, and priceless, moonrock specimens covering almost every > > Lunar Expedition. > > > > You may remember that I started a campaign... > > > > http://www.Tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Minerals/MoonRocks.shtml > > > > ...to honor Axel for his efforts, and suggested that he should receive > > an honarary 'moonrock' specimen, as was given to every 'Head of State' > > (shortly after they were collected), as a 'Thank You!' for > > single-handedly recovering specimens that are the treasure of all > > humanity. > > > > We didn't get Axel a moonrock, but I am most pleased to let you know > > that NASA recently responded by presenting an orbited Belgian Flag to > > Axel with their thanks... > > > > http://www.Tomaszewski.net/Images/NASA1.jpg > > http://www.Tomaszewski.net/Images/NASA2.jpg > > > > I want to thank all of you that contributed to this effort by contacting > > NASA and American politicians to ask that Axel be honored for his > > contributions. > > > > It is good to see honesty, integrity, and initiative recognized. Please > > join me in saluting Axel, and his Flag. The honor is well deserved and > > needs to be recognized. > > > > Kreigh Tomaszewski From mikeflan at earthlink.net Thu Oct 21 19:27:07 2004 From: mikeflan at earthlink.net (Mike Flannigan) Date: Thu Oct 21 19:27:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Barren Lands - An Epic Search for Diamonds in the North American Arctic References: <200410220102.i9M12k92030315@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <41786FFB.A7B939CB@earthlink.net> Thanks to your suggestions, I just read "Barren Lands - An Epic Search for Diamonds in the North American Arctic." It was an interesting read. Not the best book I ever read, but worth reading. Interesting enough that I read it in 6 days. Mike From bova at mindspring.com Thu Oct 21 21:31:20 2004 From: bova at mindspring.com (Carol Bova) Date: Thu Oct 21 21:30:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: I need to make my mortgage sale In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041019092040.02565b70@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <392C620E-23E3-11D9-9666-000A95773806@mindspring.com> On Tuesday, October 19, 2004, at 12:29 PM, Tim Fisher wrote: > Due to extreme financial conditions (aka this !*&@#$ economy) I am > offering every lapidary material listed on the two pages linked below > for 50% off through midnight PDT, Friday, October 22nd, only if you > use PayPal (sorry, no eChecks, they take a week to clear, > unfortunately). Yes I need the cash fast :) Just order half of what > you want with the PayPal cart buttons and I will double the quantity. > The sale includes Dust Devil sunstones. > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! > Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary > Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers > Sunstones: http://OreRockOn.com/sunstone.htm > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Oct 22 08:45:52 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Oct 22 08:45:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel Emmermann for RecoveringPricelessMoonRocks In-Reply-To: <002e01c4b7d3$1afb3630$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: Hi Alan, try collect space: http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-072202a.html They are still open for business Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Alan Goldstein Verzonden: vrijdag 22 oktober 2004 3:05 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel Emmermann for RecoveringPricelessMoonRocks Great! Unfortunately with this url (http://www.latimes.com/features/printedition/magazine/la-tm-moonrocks23jun0 6.2362043.story?coll=la-headlines-magazine) I got a page saying that I could only read the story with a password. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Cc: ; "LapidaryArtsDigest" ; ; Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 8:33 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel Emmermann for Recovering PricelessMoonRocks > On May 7,2002, Axel Emmermann, a 'rockhound' in Belgium, received an > offer of 'moonrocks' for sale. As documented at... > > > http://www.latimes.com/features/printedition/magazine/la-tm-moonrocks23jun06 .2362043.story?coll=la-headlines-magazine > > ...(and many! other websites) he responded, contacted "The Authorities" > in the United States, and set up a 'sting'. The result was the arrest, > and conviction, of the criminals who stole the moonrock specimens from > NASA (and destroyed unrecoverable research data), and the recovery of > all of the lost, and priceless, moonrock specimens covering almost every > Lunar Expedition. > > You may remember that I started a campaign... > > http://www.Tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Minerals/MoonRocks.shtml > > ...to honor Axel for his efforts, and suggested that he should receive > an honarary 'moonrock' specimen, as was given to every 'Head of State' > (shortly after they were collected), as a 'Thank You!' for > single-handedly recovering specimens that are the treasure of all > humanity. > > We didn't get Axel a moonrock, but I am most pleased to let you know > that NASA recently responded by presenting an orbited Belgian Flag to > Axel with their thanks... > > http://www.Tomaszewski.net/Images/NASA1.jpg > http://www.Tomaszewski.net/Images/NASA2.jpg > > I want to thank all of you that contributed to this effort by contacting > NASA and American politicians to ask that Axel be honored for his > contributions. > > It is good to see honesty, integrity, and initiative recognized. Please > join me in saluting Axel, and his Flag. The honor is well deserved and > needs to be recognized. > > Kreigh Tomaszewski > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From geenet2 at mchsi.com Fri Oct 22 08:57:39 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Fri Oct 22 08:58:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel Emmermann for Recovering PricelessMoonRocks References: <41785554.47BF@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000b01c4b84f$dcf22380$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> !;-) Best I could do for a salute by email, but in this day and times, honesty and integrity doubly deserve recognition! Well Done!!! Jeanette and Glenn Wimpee Irvington, Alabama > > It is good to see honesty, integrity, and initiative recognized. Please > join me in saluting Axel, and his Flag. The honor is well deserved and > needs to be recognized. > > Kreigh Tomaszewski > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Oct 22 10:10:03 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Oct 22 10:09:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel Emmermann for RecoveringPricelessMoonRocks In-Reply-To: <000b01c4b84f$dcf22380$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: Hi Glen and Jeanette from Alabama ;-)) Warm thanks! It never ceases to amaze me how strong people reacted, and still react, to this simple choice I made. It also alarms me that honesty seems to have become so rare a commodity that the papers and other media runneth over with praise when proof of it is encountered ;-))) Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jeanette Wimpee Verzonden: vrijdag 22 oktober 2004 17:58 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel Emmermann for RecoveringPricelessMoonRocks !;-) Best I could do for a salute by email, but in this day and times, honesty and integrity doubly deserve recognition! Well Done!!! Jeanette and Glenn Wimpee Irvington, Alabama > > It is good to see honesty, integrity, and initiative recognized. Please > join me in saluting Axel, and his Flag. The honor is well deserved and > needs to be recognized. > > Kreigh Tomaszewski > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tam2819 at cox.net Fri Oct 22 18:47:41 2004 From: tam2819 at cox.net (tam2819@cox.net) Date: Fri Oct 22 18:47:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel Message-ID: <20041023014742.IAOK8235.fed1rmmtao03.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Kreigh, Thank you so very much for this information and your efforts in bringing this recognition about. Axel is a treasure and the epitome of integrity. Terrie From geenet2 at mchsi.com Fri Oct 22 18:53:01 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Fri Oct 22 18:53:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel Emmermann forRecoveringPricelessMoonRocks References: Message-ID: <005301c4b8a3$077b07e0$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> That's to balance all the "news" which is of matters where people haven't acted with honesty and integrity and just plain ol law abiding. Gee, your english is better than mine, looking back over that sentence. I don't think honesty is all that "rare", it just doesn't make good news. Recovering moon rocks is unusual, if it'd been somebodys lost wallet, it'd been honest but not news. But you still deserved your accolades. Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 12:10 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel Emmermann forRecoveringPricelessMoonRocks > Hi Glen and Jeanette from Alabama ;-)) > > Warm thanks! > > It never ceases to amaze me how strong people reacted, and still react, to > this simple choice I made. It also alarms me that honesty seems to have > become so rare a commodity that the papers and other media runneth over with > praise when proof of it is encountered ;-))) > > Cheers > > Axel > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jeanette Wimpee > Verzonden: vrijdag 22 oktober 2004 17:58 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel Emmermann for > RecoveringPricelessMoonRocks > > > !;-) > Best I could do for a salute by email, but in this day and times, honesty > and integrity doubly deserve recognition! > Well Done!!! > Jeanette and Glenn Wimpee > Irvington, Alabama > > > From pchil at botsnet.bw Fri Oct 22 14:36:16 2004 From: pchil at botsnet.bw (P.C. Hulley) Date: Sat Oct 23 02:37:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel Emmermann for Recovering PricelessMoonRocks References: <41785554.47BF@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <008901c4b8e4$21276260$0100007f@hulley> Congratulations Axel! Good to see honesty recognised and rewarded. Hildagarde Hulley in Botswana. From ahelms at pdx.edu Sat Oct 23 08:03:12 2004 From: ahelms at pdx.edu (ahelms@pdx.edu) Date: Sat Oct 23 08:03:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] student jobs with USGS? In-Reply-To: <101920042132.14867.417587FD0008ECAB00003A13216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <101920042132.14867.417587FD0008ECAB00003A13216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <1098543792.417a72b001828@webmail.pdx.edu> Pete, Thank you so much for the very detailed information, I really appreciate your help. I will keep trying and see what happens. I have a job with a hospital right now, so it's not like I need a job right away. Again, thank you for taking the time to reply to my question. Sincerely, Alicia Helms Quoting pjmodreski@att.net: > Dear Alicia, > > I'll post this reply to the whole list, since it's all public information, > and might conceivably be of interest to someone else out there among the > "Rockhounds". > > You are right, we really don't have all that many student jobs available at > the USGS. However, we do have some, and if you are persistent and keep > checking, you might find one in your area. > > I just talked with one of our USGS personnel staff about this. She says, we > do hire a number of students for summer field type work, and that most of > these jobs, won't be advertized until sometime around the early spring > (Feb.-Mar.-April); so, her advice as I said, is to keep checking online about > it. When a job is offered, it will typically only be open to apply for, for > a few weeks, so it's easy to miss something if you don't look frequently. > > The website to check, I'm told (I've just looked at it, too), is > http://www.usajobs.opm.gov, which is a general website for all Federal jobs > from any agencies, throughout the country (is this what you've used > before?). You can search for jobs there by specifying a geographic location, > a job type, and "keywords". I tried just specifying "usgs" as the keyword, > nationwide, and got about 30 jobs, but all were permanent positions (some > scientific, some administrative or clerical). > > A separate place you can search is http://www.studentjobs.gov, which gives > you a similar-format search menu, but specifically searches for student jobs. > I just looked at that site and tried searching there; it doesn't come up > with anything that I could find, for "usgs". When I searched for "WA" > without specifying anything about job type it came up with 3 jobs, two of > which were groups of student-intern positions with the National Resource > Conservation Service, NRCS (formerly the Soil Conservation Service)--well, > that's almost close to geology. When I searched for CO, unspecified, it only > showed one student job, that was for a clerk with the U.S. Attorney's office. > But as my Personnel contact said, any student field positions for next > summer, would not be posted yet anyway. > > If you go to the USGS website and click on "jobs", then "student employment", > then "apply for student jobs", it just gives you a list of personnel offices > in the different regions of the country and their phone numbers, of which the > one for Colorado, for example, would get you to the woman in Personnel whom I > just called, and she, though very helpful, would mostly refer you to the > above web sites. > > So it is, as you say, a little hard to locate any of the fairly limited > number of student jobs that might be out there. Keep trying! If I think of > any other good suggestions for you, I'll write back. > > Sincerely, Pete Modreski - USGS, pmodreski@usgs.gov > > > > -------------- Original message from ahelms@pdx.edu: -------------- > > > Hi Pete, > > > > I have a quick question for you. I'm not sure what the circumstances are > like > > in Colorado, but do you know if it is difficult to get a student position > at > > USGS? I am applying for the Portland, OR area and Vancouver, WA, however, > it > > doesn't ever seem like there are positions available. I was just checking > to > > see if you have any advice. > > > > Thank you, > > Alicia Helms > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From folmstead at rcn.com Sat Oct 23 20:51:07 2004 From: folmstead at rcn.com (Fred Olmstead) Date: Sat Oct 23 20:34:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel - about moon rocks Message-ID: <417B26AB.9010400@rcn.com> FYI http://search.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=nasa+honors+axel+emmermann&page=1&offset=2&result_url=redir?src=websearch&requestId=e66c254e1b0f808d&clickedItemRank=1&userQuery=nasa+honors+axel+emmermann&clickedItemURN=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mineralogicalassociation.ca%2Fdoc%2Fnewsletters%2FNews69.pdf&invocationType=-&fromPage=nsmessearch&Test=1&remove_url=http://www.mineralogicalassociation.ca/doc/newsletters/News69.pdf --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html text/html --- From arf at mc.net Sun Oct 24 14:05:01 2004 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Sun Oct 24 14:05:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Luster Message-ID: <071801c4ba0d$2439de90$555d70d1@S0033035959> I am having are problem understand this term. The difference between metalic and glassy, is not problem but adamantine leaves me hanging. I have never seen a rough diamond in person but it is hard to believe that it would look much different from a piece of glass or quartz. Just what is the difference? js PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com From hbarwood at troyst.edu Sun Oct 24 14:36:21 2004 From: hbarwood at troyst.edu (Henry Barwood) Date: Sun Oct 24 14:36:49 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Luster In-Reply-To: <071801c4ba0d$2439de90$555d70d1@S0033035959> Message-ID: The term adamantine refers to the amount of light the surface reflects. Metallic minerals (as in metal-like) reflect the majority of light from their surface and thus appear "shiny" (my students frequently confuse mica as "metallic" because of the high reflectivity of the cleavage planes!). Glassy objects reflect very little light and thus you can see the inside of them fairly easily. There are all ranges of reflectivity between these two, but many high refractive index minerals reflect so much light that they appear "greasy", and it is difficult to see inside them, no matter how clear they are. Diamonds, garnets, zincite, sphalerite, etc. are all examples of this type of reflectivity, collectively called adamantine. Trust me, most people do not recognize rough diamonds when they see them in the wild! Henry Henry Barwood Associate Professor of Science, Earth Science Department of Math and Physics MSCX 312G Troy State University Troy, Alabama 36082 hbarwood@troyst.edu -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Jack Schmidling Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 4:05 PM To: aRockhounds Subject: [Rockhounds] Luster I am having are problem understand this term. The difference between metalic and glassy, is not problem but adamantine leaves me hanging. I have never seen a rough diamond in person but it is hard to believe that it would look much different from a piece of glass or quartz. Just what is the difference? js PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sun Oct 24 14:48:23 2004 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sun Oct 24 14:48:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Luster In-Reply-To: <071801c4ba0d$2439de90$555d70d1@S0033035959> Message-ID: Hi Jack, Rough diamonds are (sometimes) different to glass or quartz. But the terms used to discribe luster have no clear boundaries. What it actually is is nothing more or less than the refraction index. You go from glassy-adamantine-half metallic-metallic. Roughly the relation is as follows: glass (vitreous) n 1,3 -1,9 adamantine n 1,9 - 2,6 half metallic n 2,6 - 3 metallic over n 3 I personally think that the transparency and surface structure also have to do with our luster-interpretation. A perfect clear diamond with flat faces looks like glass and an impure gray diamond with rough surface looks more metallic. Reflection is a function of the refraction index, so the 'higher' the luster the less transparent a mineral is. That's why they make windows in iron cars! :-)) hopes this relieves your problems, Maurice -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Jack Schmidling Sent: 24 October 2004 23:05 To: aRockhounds Subject: [Rockhounds] Luster I am having are problem understand this term. The difference between metalic and glassy, is not problem but adamantine leaves me hanging. I have never seen a rough diamond in person but it is hard to believe that it would look much different from a piece of glass or quartz. Just what is the difference? js PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Lapadary at aol.com Sun Oct 24 15:03:23 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Sun Oct 24 15:03:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Fighting spam Message-ID: <15.360c6918.2ead80ab@aol.com> In a message dated 10/24/04 1:27:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, johnjold@mac.com writes: We don't have to just sit there and take it. Pick one of these and report all spam upon receipt. Or if you are in the mood, as I often am, report spam to all of them. They will report back to you. ============ Spam is really a minor problem compared to some of the other malicious software making the rounds. Yesterday I clicked a link that I got with a Google search. The site never came up but the little hour glass was busy, showing that something was happening. After a minute I didn't get a 404 error so I exited back to Windows and ran AdAware. It identified over 100 different items of spyware on my computer. That was a shock since I had used it to clean my hard drive a day or two earlier. Then I went back online and clicked a few bookmarked sites. When I clicked on Family Tree DNA a new browser window opened directing me to Ancestry.com. When I clicked on ClassMates.com a new browser window opened directing me to GRADUATES.com. Both of the browsers looked just like an Internet Explorer -- except it said something like "180 Search, provided by 180 Solutions." I started running all the usual programs, SpyBot, Search and Destroy, AdAware, etc. None seemed able to remove the 180 Solution. Finally I resorted going into DOS and deleting files. That got rid of it. The two files I removed from Windows 98 were lfjvec.exe and salmhook.dll. They were actually in my Windows directory, or in Windows/System directory. I probably spent 10 - 12 hours cleaning up my computer. I don't know who released 180 Solutions onto the InterMess but I hope they catch the person. There is a place out in the Black Rock Desert I want to show him. Grant Johnston, Chico, CA --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From morningstar at att.net Sun Oct 24 16:19:40 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Sun Oct 24 16:16:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Luster In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <417C388C.40909@att.net> Hi, In the Mineralogical Society of America's "Teaching Mineralogy," p. 28, we see the necessary definitions, as ranges of refractive index for non-metallic, non-opaque minerals: adamantine splendent: 2.6 to 3.4 adamantine: 1.9 to 2.6 vitreous: 1.3 to 1.9 resinous: 1.9 to 2.6 (this entry causes me to question whether this is a typo or whether there is more to it than assumed, i.e., whether descriptions can cross over RI range boundaries. I'll e-mail the author. Even if these values are incorrect, though, you can at least get an idea of how the classification system works). Note that this refers to a *freshly broken surface*. Also, the author of this chapter refers to Klein & Hurlbut's "Manual of Mineralogy" (a popular textbook) for further reading. There are further discussions of pearly, greasy, silky, etc., which refer to textures and not specific refractive indices. Last but not least, for the metallic minerals which do not have a refractive index, the luster is based on reflectance, as measured with a photometer: submetallic: (8-20% reflectance) metallic: (20-50% relectance) splendent metallic: (50-90% reflectance) This information has been provided in part by a grant from the National Science Foundation--your tax dollars used wisely for a change! Lustrously yours, Don From arf at mc.net Sun Oct 24 17:19:39 2004 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Sun Oct 24 17:43:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Luster References: Message-ID: <004c01c4ba2b$a2aad040$565f70d1@S0033035959> From: "Maurice de Graaf" > What it actually is is > nothing more or less than the refraction index If that is the case then, why bother with another parameter to describe the same characteristic? There is enough to learn here without adding to the confusion by defining the same thing with two different terms. js PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com From morningstar at att.net Sun Oct 24 18:59:14 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Sun Oct 24 18:56:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Luster In-Reply-To: <004c01c4ba2b$a2aad040$565f70d1@S0033035959> References: <004c01c4ba2b$a2aad040$565f70d1@S0033035959> Message-ID: <417C5DF2.20401@att.net> Jack Schmidling wrote: > From: "Maurice de Graaf" >>What it actually is is >>nothing more or less than the refraction index > > If that is the case then, why bother with another parameter to describe the > same characteristic? There is enough to learn here without adding to the > confusion by defining the same thing with two different terms. Keep in mind that luster, like Mohs hardness, is a somewhat subjective and general field characteristic. Each of these terms covers an analog range rather than discrete measurements. These, plus color, streak, association, cleavage, etc., help us narrow down the possible identity of a mineral without any analytical instrumentation. This is called "bracketing," and is often more useful for determining what a mineral is *not* rather than what it is, especially when more than one species can share the same hardness, color, streak, luster, etc. These techniques are sometimes useful for separating massive quartz from massive feldspars, for one example. These methods were also admittedly more useful in the "old days," when collectors had access to fewer species and there were far fewer described species that can only be determined by advanced instrumentation. Don From jabac at hal-pc.org Sun Oct 24 19:03:52 2004 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Sun Oct 24 19:01:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Luster In-Reply-To: <004c01c4ba2b$a2aad040$565f70d1@S0033035959> References: <004c01c4ba2b$a2aad040$565f70d1@S0033035959> Message-ID: <1098669832.5312.16.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2004-10-24 at 19:19, Jack Schmidling wrote: > From: "Maurice de Graaf" > > > What it actually is is > > nothing more or less than the refraction index > > If that is the case then, why bother with another parameter to describe the > same characteristic? There is enough to learn here without adding to the > confusion by defining the same thing with two different terms. > > js Because Diamond Lil et al. could care less about RI, but they sure know their glitter. Also back in the old days there was no such thing as RI. For example, faceters cut for weight and relative sparkle, not the "best" presentation based upon what light does to the material. By the same token rubies and spinels were often confused. RI makes the different minerals obvious to us, but most people really don't care if they look pretty much the same. I guess the real difference is that RI is a noun more in the "object" sense, whereas luster,etc. are more "adjective" in their sense. Both may describe something but one is cerebral, the other visual. And because the real world is what it is, there are few sharp divisions visually. Classifications inevitably overlap one another. john From jabac at hal-pc.org Sun Oct 24 19:10:27 2004 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Sun Oct 24 19:08:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Luster In-Reply-To: <071801c4ba0d$2439de90$555d70d1@S0033035959> References: <071801c4ba0d$2439de90$555d70d1@S0033035959> Message-ID: <1098670227.5312.20.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2004-10-24 at 16:05, Jack Schmidling wrote: > I am having are problem understand this term. > > The difference between metalic and glassy, is not problem but adamantine > leaves me hanging. > > I have never seen a rough diamond in person but it is hard to believe that > it would look much different from a piece of glass or quartz. > > Just what is the difference? > > js > "Adamantine" refers almost uniquely to "diamond-like". It may not be obvious to most of us, but I am sure that if one took a few pounds of quartz crystals and diamond crystals of about the same size and mixed them, the difference would appear obvious. john From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Oct 24 20:06:13 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Oct 24 20:06:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Luster References: <071801c4ba0d$2439de90$555d70d1@S0033035959> Message-ID: <417C6DA0.61E7@Tomaszewski.net> Jack Schmidling wrote: > > I am having are problem understand this term. > > The difference between metalic and glassy, is not problem but adamantine > leaves me hanging. > > I have never seen a rough diamond in person but it is hard to believe that > it would look much different from a piece of glass or quartz. > > Just what is the difference? > > js Jack, Adamantine Luster is a rich, deep, almost greasy luster; you think you are seeing into the interior at least a bit, but the surface is not quite so obviously shiny as with a greasy, or resinous, luster. While luster is academically defined by measurable properties, the old standards are sill great for field work and most common minerals and rocks. Sphalerite runs between adamantine and resinous luster. Good sulphur crystals are usually resinous, but can be adamantine. Unfortunately, the old standards are learned via an apprenticeship or by repeated example; I may not be able to clearly say why it is adamantine luster, but I know one when I see it, because I've seen it (often) before. Adamantine luster is hard to capture in a picture. I think luster has an unmeasured attribute relating to how something appears as it is rotated in fixed lighting. Our eyes and brain do some amazing things with image recognition in real time. I've noticed that when I am trying to judge luster I move my head a bit if the specimen is fixed, and I turn or rock it back and forth when it is hand held. BTW, movies don't caputure it well either. I'm suspecting something in the eye/brain stereo processing of a adamantine surface makes it obvious after you have seen one. I think subtle differences in right and left eye images give an impression of depth to the surface. But I've taken a (only slightly successful) crack anyway at trying to capture an adamantine luster in my picture of a cubical diamond crystal at http://Tomaszewski.net/Images/1304a.jpg You can also go to http://www.JohnBetts-FineMinerals.com/jbhnyc/diamonds.htm for some fine pictures of rough diamonds. John is one of the better mineral photographers and almost catches the adamantine luster. [I am a long time satisfied customer of John's and am not otherwise associated with his business.] The page full of examples leave a good overall impression of adamantine, but you still need to see an example to understand it. Talk to your local jewelry stores -- one of them is likely to have a rough diamond on hand for showing as they educate staff and cultivate prospective big diamond customers. You really need to see a diamond in the rough. Kreigh From arf at mc.net Sun Oct 24 21:48:11 2004 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Sun Oct 24 21:48:19 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Luster References: <071801c4ba0d$2439de90$555d70d1@S0033035959> <417C6DA0.61E7@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <009101c4ba4d$d80dd5d0$565f70d1@S0033035959> From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > Adamantine Luster is a rich, deep, almost greasy luster; Would CZ be considered adamantine? For that matter, what natural minerals are adamantine besides diamond. > But I've taken a (only slightly successful) crack anyway at trying to > capture an adamantine luster in my picture of a cubical diamond crystal > at > > http://Tomaszewski.net/Images/1304a.jpg Not quite sure what I was looking at here. I thought possibly the thing nested at the top was the diamond but after looking at the other site you suggested, I gather the whole thing is some sort of diamond? > You can also go to > > http://www.JohnBetts-FineMinerals.com/jbhnyc/diamonds.htm Very informative and I think I can see what you mean by greasy in a few of the pics. I have never bought a mineral in my life but I just may pop for one of those. To me, rock collecting is rock collecting and not buying but I may make an exception here. I do buy rough for cutting but that is a different issue, I think. BTW, I read an old book on gem collecting in the Midwest and learned that diamonds have been found in Illinois so, I have set up sort of a sluce to wash gravel from my garden just for the drill. One of our gardens is a virtual gravel quarry and this makes getting rid of the rocks a bit more fun. We have found about a dozen really nice pieces of amazonite just in the process of gardening so if I don't find diamonds, I can count on some more of that. I found a cubic crystal today that has the general shape of some diamonds I have seen but the surface was frosted up and I presume a diamond would never get that way but looking at all those pics makes me want to have another look. js PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Mon Oct 25 00:04:31 2004 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Linda Rasmussen) Date: Mon Oct 25 00:04:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Type A Basalt References: Message-ID: <00f501c4ba60$e0b806c0$655fe842@pavilion> Hello Gang, Today as I was rockhounding with my 16 year old daughter I happened to located a common piece of Type A Balsalt and noticed a glassy piece in it, breacking it open I spotted to light blue gem like glassy pieces about the size of pencil lead, anyone know what this is, sorry I cant upload. Thanks all. Wayne From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Mon Oct 25 01:16:28 2004 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Mon Oct 25 01:16:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Type A Basalt In-Reply-To: <00f501c4ba60$e0b806c0$655fe842@pavilion> Message-ID: hauyne?? -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Linda Rasmussen Sent: 25 October 2004 09:05 To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Type A Basalt Hello Gang, Today as I was rockhounding with my 16 year old daughter I happened to located a common piece of Type A Balsalt and noticed a glassy piece in it, breacking it open I spotted to light blue gem like glassy pieces about the size of pencil lead, anyone know what this is, sorry I cant upload. Thanks all. Wayne _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From morningstar at att.net Mon Oct 25 07:07:27 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Mon Oct 25 07:07:31 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Luster Message-ID: <102520041407.8240.417D089F000270980000203021603759649D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Hi, Here is the answer from the author of the chapter to which I referred (see my previous post). "Don You will find a fuller explanation of the relationship between luster and R.I ranges in Don Bloss' classic text [Bloss, F.D. (1971) Crystallography and Crystal Chemistry: New York, Holt, Rinehart, and Winston, 545p]. Reprint copies may still be available from the MSA or in any good college library. (*** my note: this is indeed available from the Mineralogical Society of America via their website ***) The connection between R.I. and luster is a first order approximation that works fairly well. However, "resinous" luster which is quite obvious to the trained eye does not have a unique range of R.I., it shares the lower range with other luster types. The range of values for "resinous" I list in the exercise comes from the range of R.I. observed for sulfur and sphalerite. So it is not a typo, but an ambiguity of the theory being applied to understand mineral luster. I hope this helps. kwb" From afox at drizzle.com Mon Oct 25 07:13:39 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Mon Oct 25 07:13:42 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Type A Basalt In-Reply-To: <00f501c4ba60$e0b806c0$655fe842@pavilion> Message-ID: This is just a thought, but I remember gathering sunstones ( labradorite: calcic plagioclase feldspar phenocrysts) from basalt in Utah and in Eastern Oregon. Most were washed out by the sun, but a few had a light blue tint, and the nice iridesence that comes with labradorite. I don't think this is common, though. I thought most sunstones were in the reddish-to greenish tint range? a. > Today as I was rockhounding with my 16 year old daughter I > happened to located a common piece of Type A Balsalt and > noticed a glassy piece in it, breacking it open I spotted to > light blue gem like glassy pieces about the size of pencil > lead, anyone know what this is, sorry I cant upload. > Thanks all. > > Wayne From afox at drizzle.com Mon Oct 25 08:31:39 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Mon Oct 25 08:31:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Second Warning Message-ID: If you are attempting to subscribe the Rockhounds list to the Spheres group at Yahoo!, please stop NOW. I've contacted the group administrator there, as well as Yahoo! netadmins, and asked them to take actions. I've asked politely twice; after that, I get nasty. What you're doing is rude and against our list TOS. If the subscribe attempts continue, I will globally ban any emails from ANY yahoogroups.com address, regardless of content. This, however, will not affect yahoo.com email addresses, so no yelping! Please DO NOT reply to this message on-list. It is an adminstrative posting and warrants no discussion. If you must say something about it, please contact me off-list at the email address below. Aaron Fox Rockhounds Admin -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From rik.dillen at skynet.be Mon Oct 25 13:08:45 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Mon Oct 25 13:09:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] FW: fluorescent minerals - information Message-ID: <001f01c4bace$75613270$566bc950@maxdata> -----Original Message----- From: MSA-Talk@lists.minsocam.org [mailto:MSA-Talk@lists.minsocam.org] On Behalf Of Andrea.Koziol@notes.udayton.edu Sent: maandag 25 oktober 2004 21:09 To: MSA-Talk@lists.minsocam.org Subject: fluorescent minerals - information Hello all; 3 of my students are researching this topic and finding difficult to find information. they have some books but need articles from the Journal of the Fluorescent Mineral Society. If you can help, please contact me off this list at andrea.koziol@notes.udayton.edu. thank you andrea From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Oct 25 14:27:36 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Oct 25 14:27:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] FW: fluorescent minerals - information Message-ID: <102520042127.10318.417D6FC8000003AE0000284E215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> To Rockhounds List, I saw this post on the MSA List, and I've written back to Andrea, offering to make & send them copies of any articles from the FMS Journal that her students need. Pete Modreski -------------- Original message from "Rik Dillen" : -------------- > -----Original Message----- > From: MSA-Talk@lists.minsocam.org [mailto:MSA-Talk@lists.minsocam.org] On Behalf > Of Andrea.Koziol@notes.udayton.edu > Sent: maandag 25 oktober 2004 21:09 > To: MSA-Talk@lists.minsocam.org > Subject: fluorescent minerals - information > > > Hello all; > > 3 of my students are researching this topic and finding difficult to find > information. they have some books but need articles from > the Journal of the Fluorescent Mineral Society. If you can help, please contact > me off this list at > andrea.koziol@notes.udayton.edu. > > thank you > > andrea > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Oct 25 14:37:14 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Oct 25 14:37:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Type A Basalt Message-ID: <102520042137.19411.417D7209000EEA7400004BD3215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Linda & List, I'm not at all sure what "Type A Basalt" is (I guess it's much better than Type B), but I agree with Aaron's suggestions, there's a good chance that the bluish crystals are just labradorite that has the bluish sheen as found elsewhere, rather than the yellow or orange-red color of sunstone. (Am I guessing correctly, that at some of the sunstone mines or claims, there are several different varieties of basalt that contain more or less good quality sunstone, and the type hosting the best sunstone is perhaps known locally as "type A basalt"? I thought I had a url for one particularly good website with detailed descriptions and photos of some of the sunstone mines, but I can't find that article right now.) sincerely, Pete Modreski -------------- Original message from "Linda Rasmussen" : -------------- > Hello Gang, > > Today as I was rockhounding with my 16 year old daughter I > happened to located a common piece of Type A Balsalt and > noticed a glassy piece in it, breacking it open I spotted to > light blue gem like glassy pieces about the size of pencil > lead, anyone know what this is, sorry I cant upload. > Thanks all. > > Wayne > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Oct 25 16:54:28 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Oct 25 16:51:50 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Type A Basalt References: <102520042137.19411.417D7209000EEA7400004BD3215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <417D918E.82D@Tomaszewski.net> I assumed a grocery store typing for basalts; A&P --> Aphanitic (fine grain under 1mm) & Phaneritic (large grain). Kreigh pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > Linda & List, > > I'm not at all sure what "Type A Basalt" is (I guess it's much better than Type B), but I agree with Aaron's suggestions, there's a good chance that the bluish crystals are just labradorite that has the bluish sheen as found elsewhere, rather than the yellow or orange-red color of sunstone. > > (Am I guessing correctly, that at some of the sunstone mines or claims, there are several different varieties of basalt that contain more or less good quality sunstone, and the type hosting the best sunstone is perhaps known locally as "type A basalt"? I thought I had a url for one particularly good website with detailed descriptions and photos of some of the sunstone mines, but I can't find that article right now.) > > sincerely, Pete Modreski > > -------------- Original message from "Linda Rasmussen" : -------------- > > > Hello Gang, > > > > Today as I was rockhounding with my 16 year old daughter I > > happened to located a common piece of Type A Balsalt and > > noticed a glassy piece in it, breacking it open I spotted to > > light blue gem like glassy pieces about the size of pencil > > lead, anyone know what this is, sorry I cant upload. > > Thanks all. > > > > Wayne From KMachovec at nc.rr.com Mon Oct 25 17:23:05 2004 From: KMachovec at nc.rr.com (Ken M) Date: Mon Oct 25 17:23:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Brazil Message-ID: <002701c4baf1$f6d0cbe0$9601a8c0@ibmo9z7jxvmnsi> I'm making a trip to Minas Gerais over Christmas this year, and would like to take a day or two to do a bit of rockhunting. Does anyone have any tips, contacts, etc? Thanks in advance! Ken --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Oct 25 18:59:00 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Oct 25 18:56:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Luster References: <071801c4ba0d$2439de90$555d70d1@S0033035959> <417C6DA0.61E7@Tomaszewski.net> <009101c4ba4d$d80dd5d0$565f70d1@S0033035959> Message-ID: <417DAEAD.4974@Tomaszewski.net> Greetings! Comments in-line below... Jack Schmidling wrote: > > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > > > Adamantine Luster is a rich, deep, almost greasy luster; > > Would CZ be considered adamantine? For that matter, what natural minerals > are adamantine besides diamond. If you go to webmineral.com, click determinative mineralogy, and search for "luster=adamantine", you can find hundreds of mineral types with adamantine luster. Unfortunately, most of the returned items are not common minerals. Crocoite, cuprite, titanite, atacamite, cerussite, vanadanite, and anglesite all have adamantine luster. CZ is not listed in my handbooks and I could not verify its luster searching online. > > > But I've taken a (only slightly successful) crack anyway at trying to > > capture an adamantine luster in my picture of a cubical diamond crystal > > at > > > > http://Tomaszewski.net/Images/1304a.jpg > > Not quite sure what I was looking at here. I thought possibly the thing > nested at the top was the diamond but after looking at the other site you > suggested, I gather the whole thing is some sort of diamond? Yes, it is an almost 10 carat natural diamond sitting on top of a push-pin in a micromount box. I like the twinned crystals coming out of some of the faces, showing off the natural cubic crystal. > > > You can also go to > > > > http://www.JohnBetts-FineMinerals.com/jbhnyc/diamonds.htm > > Very informative and I think I can see what you mean by greasy in a few of > the pics. I have never bought a mineral in my life but I just may pop for > one of those. To me, rock collecting is rock collecting and not buying but > I may make an exception here. I do buy rough for cutting but that is a > different issue, I think. As a systematic collector I know I won't live long enough to collect every mineral. Trading with other collectors extends my reach and keeps it personal. Purchasing from dealers is only one step removed from trading. I agree that finding your own is always more satisfying, but I have no problems extending my collection using a 'silver pick'. I appreciate mineral dealers for their help in extending our shared collecting hobby not only geographically, but back into time as they recycle collections. > > BTW, I read an old book on gem collecting in the Midwest and learned that > diamonds have been found in Illinois so, I have set up sort of a sluce to > wash gravel from my garden just for the drill. One of our gardens is a > virtual gravel quarry and this makes getting rid of the rocks a bit more > fun. Diamonds were brought down from Canada (and Michigan) by the glaciers and dumped in gravel, so they are occasionally found throughout the MidWest. Some of the kimberlite pipes have been found in Canada and a few are being developed for commercial extraction (I think one of the dozen or so pipes in Michigan is also being researched for development). > > We have found about a dozen really nice pieces of amazonite just in the > process of gardening so if I don't find diamonds, I can count on some more > of that. > > I found a cubic crystal today that has the general shape of some diamonds I > have seen but the surface was frosted up and I presume a diamond would never > get that way but looking at all those pics makes me want to have another > look. Start with a hardness test -- diamond is pretty distinctive in that regard. > > js Kreigh From morningstar at att.net Mon Oct 25 19:58:40 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Mon Oct 25 19:55:36 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Luster In-Reply-To: <417DAEAD.4974@Tomaszewski.net> References: <071801c4ba0d$2439de90$555d70d1@S0033035959> <417C6DA0.61E7@Tomaszewski.net> <009101c4ba4d$d80dd5d0$565f70d1@S0033035959> <417DAEAD.4974@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <417DBD60.1030300@att.net> Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >>Would CZ be considered adamantine? For that matter, what natural minerals >>are adamantine besides diamond. > > CZ is not listed in my handbooks and I could not verify its luster > searching online. Don't forget that CZ is synthetic and would not likely be listed in a lot of mineralogy books or on related websites. Speaking of websites, I found values between 2.14 and 2.20, moderately close to diamond, and thus CZ would likely be described as adamantine in luster. Taking the advice of the author mentioned yesterday, I consulted Bloss's Crystallography and Crystal Chemistry, and found this wisdom (p. 436): "If equally smooth surfaces of different materials are compared, R (the percentage of light reflected after perpindicularly striking each smooth surface) is related to the material's refractive index 'n' and to its absorption coefficient 'k'(1) by the Bohr equation R = (n-1)^2 + n^2*k^2 ----------------- (n+1)^2 + n^2*k^2 . . . The limits for the five grades of luster in transparent or semi-transparent solids are those set by Povarennykh in 1964, namely: (1) subvitreous, n = 1.3 - 1.5; (2) vitreous, n = 1.5 - 1.8; (3) subadamantine, n = 1.8 - 2.2; (4) adamantine, n = 2.2 - 2.7; (5) adamantine splendent, 2.7 - 3.4. For slightly transluscent to opaque minerals, his limits are (3) submetallic, R = 8 to 20%; (4) metallic, R = 20 to 50%; (5) metallic splendent, 50 to 95%." I realize this information is of little value to the casual collector, but since at some point the question of standard values was asked, here at last we have an answer! (1) At this moment I do not have a table of absorption coefficients at hand, therefore I cannot discuss values for 'k'. I am sure that somewhere in my collection of dusty and weighty tomes, that table lies in quiet glory, but until I find it then 'k' remains a mystery. Anyone? Pete? Splendently yours, Don From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Oct 25 20:40:52 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Oct 25 20:37:42 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Luster References: <071801c4ba0d$2439de90$555d70d1@S0033035959> <417C6DA0.61E7@Tomaszewski.net> <009101c4ba4d$d80dd5d0$565f70d1@S0033035959> <417DAEAD.4974@Tomaszewski.net> <417DBD60.1030300@att.net> Message-ID: <417DC67E.17C5@Tomaszewski.net> Don H wrote: > (1) At this moment I do not have a table of absorption coefficients at > hand, therefore I cannot discuss values for 'k'. I am sure that > somewhere in my collection of dusty and weighty tomes, that table lies > in quiet glory, but until I find it then 'k' remains a mystery. Anyone? Don, Grab your trusty CRC Handbook. Mine defines 'k', and has a table with some common values (and I need to get a more current version one of these days). Look up "absorption factor", as well as "absorption coefficients", in the Index. Kreigh From hammerron at yahoo.com Tue Oct 26 03:54:04 2004 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Tue Oct 26 03:51:49 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Luster References: <071801c4ba0d$2439de90$555d70d1@S0033035959> <417C6DA0.61E7@Tomaszewski.net> <009101c4ba4d$d80dd5d0$565f70d1@S0033035959><417DAEAD.4974@Tomaszewski.net> <417DBD60.1030300@att.net> Message-ID: <000f01c4bb4a$2be94b60$80bf3ccc@j9yhq01> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don H" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 10:58 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Luster > Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > >>Would CZ be considered adamantine? For that matter, what natural minerals > >>are adamantine besides diamond. > > For all its worth, I believe CZ material does (though somewhat rare) occur naturally as the mineral baddeleyite. It does/can have adamantine luster. -Ron Minerals?..check out http://hammerron.com/minerals From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Tue Oct 26 04:00:22 2004 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Tue Oct 26 04:00:19 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Luster In-Reply-To: <000f01c4bb4a$2be94b60$80bf3ccc@j9yhq01> Message-ID: >For all its worth, I believe CZ material does (though somewhat rare) occur >naturally as the mineral baddeleyite. It does/can have adamantine luster. Baddeleyite is monoclinic. So I don't think it is the same as CUBIC Zirconia...... :-) Cheers, Maurice -Ron Minerals?..check out http://hammerron.com/minerals _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From hammerron at yahoo.com Tue Oct 26 06:00:19 2004 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Tue Oct 26 06:00:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Luster In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041026130019.54444.qmail@web81401.mail.yahoo.com> Maurice: Thanks, I see what you mean. You say potayto and I say patahto...You say diamond and I say graphite. Bad humor, but I see the point. baddeleyite is similar chemically, but has a different crystal form from the man made CZ (cubic ziconia). I found a nice write up up on it at http://www.emporia.edu/earthsci/amber/go340/students/berg/cz.html -Ron --- Maurice de Graaf wrote: > >For all its worth, I believe CZ material does (though somewhat rare) occur > >naturally as the mineral baddeleyite. It does/can have adamantine luster. > > Baddeleyite is monoclinic. So I don't think it is the same as CUBIC > Zirconia...... :-) > > Cheers, > Maurice > > > > > -Ron > > Minerals?..check out http://hammerron.com/minerals > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From kjvgorock at juno.com Tue Oct 26 08:03:04 2004 From: kjvgorock at juno.com (kjvgorock@juno.com) Date: Tue Oct 26 08:05:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD - final eBay posts & pics post for a time Message-ID: <20041026.100305.2676.2.kjvgorock@juno.com> Hi, I'm leaving for a contract job assignment in November that will keep me from geode collecting & eBay selling. I put a final group of geodes for sale on eBay - ending this Friday. Take a look: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQgotopageZ1QQsassZkvQ5fgoodrocksQQsorecordsper pageZ50QQsosortorderZ1QQsosortpropertyZ1 (Note, that link may get split up when you read this email - be sure to put all of the info into your browser address bar - or just search for me by seller kv_goodrocks or search for Keokuk Geode & go from there) Also, I've made recent trips to the Canton dump, Larry Creek, & the 'gspot' (secret iridescent brown spot in Missouri) and posted the more photogenic geodes from my trips on my latest acquisitions page: http://home.swbell.net/rvaisvil/photos3.html Ken Vaisvil kv_goodrocks kjvgorock@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Tue Oct 26 08:12:30 2004 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Tue Oct 26 08:11:25 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Vintage Geiger Counter on eBay In-Reply-To: <20041026130019.54444.qmail@web81401.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <74AD066C-2761-11D9-A726-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Hi Folks, The subject says it all. It's item number 6127131223 on eBay. Cheers, Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada From shm at tapnet.net Tue Oct 26 08:33:32 2004 From: shm at tapnet.net (SHM) Date: Tue Oct 26 08:34:25 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Luster In-Reply-To: <009101c4ba4d$d80dd5d0$565f70d1@S0033035959> Message-ID: <000501c4bb71$44f45ba0$b1e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> I found a cubic crystal today that has the general shape of some diamonds I have seen but the surface was frosted up and I presume a diamond would never get that way but looking at all those pics makes me want to have another look. js Jack [and list]- The exterior surfaces of naturally occurring diamonds commonly do not exhibit the adamantine luster of the cut gem because those surfaces have been affected by micro solution-pitting. To the eye, then, they appear somewhat greasy, or even frosted. Most of the rough diamonds we have in our reference collection at the Thomas S. Warren Museum of Fluorescence show little or no "glitter" in daylight; many are rather dull. As Don noted, the luster of a mineral should always be observed on a freshly broken surface (but don't go smashing that diamond!). Let's hope that's what you found--but it could just as well be fluorite, no? Cheers- Earl Verbeek From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Tue Oct 26 12:13:50 2004 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Tue Oct 26 12:13:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Luster In-Reply-To: <20041026130019.54444.qmail@web81401.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >You say diamond and I say graphite. :-) Yep, you give your wife a graphite ring and keep saying 'ahhh what does it matter, it's all carbon' ? Cheers, Maurice Bad humor, but I see the point. baddeleyite is similar chemically, but has a different crystal form from the man made CZ (cubic ziconia). I found a nice write up up on it at http://www.emporia.edu/earthsci/amber/go340/students/berg/cz.html -Ron --- Maurice de Graaf wrote: > >For all its worth, I believe CZ material does (though somewhat rare) occur > >naturally as the mineral baddeleyite. It does/can have adamantine luster. > > Baddeleyite is monoclinic. So I don't think it is the same as CUBIC > Zirconia...... :-) > > Cheers, > Maurice > > > > > -Ron > > Minerals?..check out http://hammerron.com/minerals > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Oct 26 13:30:02 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Oct 26 13:30:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Type A Basalt In-Reply-To: <00f501c4ba60$e0b806c0$655fe842@pavilion> Message-ID: Blue, hmmm Nosean, ha?yn, lazurite, sodalite come to mind ;-))) If you have a fairly strong LW UV lamp: ha?yn and nosean may fluoresce medium strong to weak reddish to deep orange. . Ultimately, you guess is as good as mine withou further investigation... Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Linda Rasmussen Verzonden: maandag 25 oktober 2004 9:05 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Type A Basalt Hello Gang, Today as I was rockhounding with my 16 year old daughter I happened to located a common piece of Type A Balsalt and noticed a glassy piece in it, breacking it open I spotted to light blue gem like glassy pieces about the size of pencil lead, anyone know what this is, sorry I cant upload. Thanks all. Wayne _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From arf at mc.net Tue Oct 26 13:24:02 2004 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Tue Oct 26 13:40:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Corundum Message-ID: <024201c4bb9c$083b8ff0$565f70d1@S0033035959> I was surprised to see a boule of ruby corundum light up a brilliant red under UV and the gems I have cut from it likewise are really cool. I was not aware of the characteristic. Is this also true of natural ruby? js PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com From arf at mc.net Tue Oct 26 13:33:17 2004 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Tue Oct 26 13:40:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Luster References: Message-ID: <024601c4bb9c$0c10b3d0$565f70d1@S0033035959> I thought I understood this business but someone threw in the monkey wrench when they compared cut with rough diamonds. In looking at the photos of rough diamonds, I could more or less see what was meant by the greasy look. However, I have never seen a cut diamond with that look. The surfaces don't look much different from quartz or CZ and what makes high RI gems look good is all the internal reflection and dispersion. They certainly have no greasy look unless they need cleaning. js PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com From Gslrocks at aol.com Tue Oct 26 13:49:36 2004 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Tue Oct 26 13:49:42 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Corundum Message-ID: <96.18937733.2eb01260@aol.com> many gems will fluoresce under UV synthetic and natural. Diamonds, rubies, cubic zirconias, benitoites,hackmanites are but a few. Greg Lesinski GSLROCKS 4726 Porter Center Rd. Lewiston NY 14092 Fluorescent minerals, ultraviolet lamps and reference books website www.gslrocks.com GSLROCKS@AOL.COM 716-754-9729 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Lapidry at aol.com Tue Oct 26 14:04:34 2004 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Tue Oct 26 14:04:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Corundum Message-ID: <141.372b08e7.2eb015e2@aol.com> In a message dated 10/26/2004 4:40:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, arf@mc.net writes: I was surprised to see a boule of ruby corundum light up a brilliant red under UV and the gems I have cut from it likewise are really cool. Some synthetic/cultured ruby is "doped" so that it is fluorescent intentionally. Doping is the addition of a fluorescent compound. This is so a gemologist/jeweler can more easily detect that it isn't a natural stone. The same with a few other synthetics. Some natural ruby will fluoresce but usually in a different color than the doped material. Presence of iron in the composition will dampen fluorescence. If you want to cut something that will really glow, try cutting uranium glass. Dan I was not aware of the characteristic. Is this also true of natural ruby? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From nmartin at bbn.com Tue Oct 26 14:19:13 2004 From: nmartin at bbn.com (Nathan C. Martin II) Date: Tue Oct 26 14:19:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mystery mineral Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20041026163639.01e89ad0@po2.bbn.com> This past weekend while visiting my son in Columbus, OH, I purchased a small specimen from the Orton Museum at Ohio State University that was labeled as follows: Neteatrengite (purple) with Stewartite (yellow) with a locality listing of Pala, California, USA Although I can identify stewartite as a phosphate mineral with the chemical formula Mn++Fe+++2(PO4)2(OH)2?8(H2O), I cannot find any reference on the web to Neteatrengite and I am guessing that either it is an obsolete name or was misspelled when the label was prepared. If anyone is familiar with this mineral name or has another guess for a purple phosphate from Pala, CA that is associated with stewartite, I would appreciate your help. Best regards, Nate Martin Lexington, MA From mosasaur47 at msn.com Tue Oct 26 14:24:46 2004 From: mosasaur47 at msn.com (Kenneth Quinn) Date: Tue Oct 26 14:27:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mystery mineral References: <5.2.0.9.2.20041026163639.01e89ad0@po2.bbn.com> Message-ID: > Neteatrengite (purple) with Stewartite (yellow) > with a locality listing of Pala, California, USA > > Although I can identify stewartite as a phosphate mineral with the > chemical > formula Mn++Fe+++2(PO4)2(OH)2?8(H2O), I cannot find any reference on the > web to Neteatrengite and I am guessing that either it is an obsolete name > or was misspelled when the label was prepared. > > If anyone is familiar with this mineral name or has another guess for a > purple phosphate from Pala, CA that is associated with stewartite, I would > appreciate your help. Metastrengite? I am not even sure there is such, though strengite is a purple phosphate. Kenneth Quinn From tjokela at execulink.com Tue Oct 26 14:31:07 2004 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Tue Oct 26 14:31:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mystery mineral References: <5.2.0.9.2.20041026163639.01e89ad0@po2.bbn.com> Message-ID: <002601c4bba3$1b1aefb0$6401a8c0@Junior> Metastrengite ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nathan C. Martin II" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 5:19 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Mystery mineral > This past weekend while visiting my son in Columbus, OH, I purchased a > small specimen from the Orton Museum at Ohio State University that was > labeled as follows: > > Neteatrengite (purple) with Stewartite (yellow) > with a locality listing of Pala, California, USA > > Although I can identify stewartite as a phosphate mineral with the > chemical formula Mn++Fe+++2(PO4)2(OH)2?8(H2O), I cannot find any reference > on the web to Neteatrengite and I am guessing that either it is an > obsolete name or was misspelled when the label was prepared. > > If anyone is familiar with this mineral name or has another guess for a > purple phosphate from Pala, CA that is associated with stewartite, I would > appreciate your help. > > Best regards, > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From mosasaur47 at msn.com Tue Oct 26 14:29:53 2004 From: mosasaur47 at msn.com (Kenneth Quinn) Date: Tue Oct 26 14:33:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metastrengite References: <5.2.0.9.2.20041026163639.01e89ad0@po2.bbn.com> Message-ID: Yes! There is a metastrengite, apparently a synonym of phosphosiderite. Kenneth Quinn From Lapadary at aol.com Tue Oct 26 14:34:53 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Tue Oct 26 14:35:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mystery mineral Message-ID: In a message dated 10/26/04 2:28:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mosasaur47@msn.com writes: Metastrengite _____________________ I think we are getting close. The prefix 'meta' means it happens later in a series of events.Could it mean something following strengite? Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From hbarwood at troyst.edu Tue Oct 26 14:38:09 2004 From: hbarwood at troyst.edu (Henry Barwood) Date: Tue Oct 26 14:38:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mystery mineral In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20041026163639.01e89ad0@po2.bbn.com> Message-ID: Hi Nate, Likely they are trying to spell metastrengite, an obsolete term for phosphosiderite. Strengite and phosphosiderite are dimorphs. Phosphosiderite is frequently found as purple crusts of microcrystals on massive rockbridgeite in pegmatites. Henry -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Nathan C. Martin II Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 4:19 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Mystery mineral This past weekend while visiting my son in Columbus, OH, I purchased a small specimen from the Orton Museum at Ohio State University that was labeled as follows: Neteatrengite (purple) with Stewartite (yellow) with a locality listing of Pala, California, USA Although I can identify stewartite as a phosphate mineral with the chemical formula Mn++Fe+++2(PO4)2(OH)2?8(H2O), I cannot find any reference on the web to Neteatrengite and I am guessing that either it is an obsolete name or was misspelled when the label was prepared. If anyone is familiar with this mineral name or has another guess for a purple phosphate from Pala, CA that is associated with stewartite, I would appreciate your help. Best regards, Nate Martin Lexington, MA _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From nmartin at bbn.com Tue Oct 26 14:56:11 2004 From: nmartin at bbn.com (Nathan C. Martin II) Date: Tue Oct 26 14:56:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mystery mineral In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.0.9.2.20041026163639.01e89ad0@po2.bbn.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20041026174711.01ef0a38@po2.bbn.com> Based on the quick replies, I did a quick google search on metastrengite and came up with the following from the www.minresco.com website. METASTRENGITE - Stewart Mine, Pala, San Diego Co., California - See PHOSPHOSIDERITE Since the habit is purple crusts of microcrystals, I'd say that Phosphosiderite is indeed likely to be the mystery mineral on this specimen. My thanks to everyone who took the time to answer. I continue to be humbled and amazed by the resource that this list represents. Best regards, Nate martin Lexington, MA At 05:38 PM 10/26/2004, you wrote: >Hi Nate, > >Likely they are trying to spell metastrengite, an obsolete term for >phosphosiderite. Strengite and phosphosiderite are dimorphs. Phosphosiderite >is frequently found as purple crusts of microcrystals on massive >rockbridgeite in pegmatites. > >Henry > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Nathan C. >Martin II >Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 4:19 PM >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Subject: [Rockhounds] Mystery mineral > > >This past weekend while visiting my son in Columbus, OH, I purchased a >small specimen from the Orton Museum at Ohio State University that was >labeled as follows: > >Neteatrengite (purple) with Stewartite (yellow) >with a locality listing of Pala, California, USA > >Although I can identify stewartite as a phosphate mineral with the chemical >formula Mn++Fe+++2(PO4)2(OH)2?8(H2O), I cannot find any reference on the >web to Neteatrengite and I am guessing that either it is an obsolete name >or was misspelled when the label was prepared. > >If anyone is familiar with this mineral name or has another guess for a >purple phosphate from Pala, CA that is associated with stewartite, I would >appreciate your help. > >Best regards, >Nate Martin >Lexington, MA > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Dr. Nathan C. Martin Principal Scientist BBN Technologies Room 1/117, 50 Moulton Street, Cambridge, MA 02138 Phone: (617)873-3495 Office FAX: (617)873-2918 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Oct 26 15:19:12 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Oct 26 15:19:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Corundum In-Reply-To: <024201c4bb9c$083b8ff0$565f70d1@S0033035959> Message-ID: Yes! Small amounts of chromium cause corundum to fluoresce in UV as well as in daylight... hence the red color of ruby. Check this out: http://www.minerant.org/photo/fluoE.html Top row 2nd and 4th image are corundum The 4 image has also some orange in it. This has to do with twinning of two crystals. The chromium in the "distorted zone" where the crystals come together suffers some shifting in its electronic "make-up", which is thought to cause the color-shift. Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jack Schmidling Verzonden: dinsdag 26 oktober 2004 22:24 Aan: aRockhounds Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Corundum I was surprised to see a boule of ruby corundum light up a brilliant red under UV and the gems I have cut from it likewise are really cool. I was not aware of the characteristic. Is this also true of natural ruby? js PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From morningstar at att.net Tue Oct 26 17:13:46 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Tue Oct 26 17:10:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Corundum In-Reply-To: <024201c4bb9c$083b8ff0$565f70d1@S0033035959> References: <024201c4bb9c$083b8ff0$565f70d1@S0033035959> Message-ID: <417EE83A.3020202@att.net> Jack Schmidling wrote: > I was surprised to see a boule of ruby corundum light up a brilliant red > under UV and the gems I have cut from it likewise are really cool. > > I was not aware of the characteristic. Is this also true of natural ruby? Yes it is! Not all of them, of course, as far as I know . . . one little tidbit, I have seen rubies fluoresce into the near infrared (using an instrument that can detect such things, of course). There are others who know more about fluorescent corundum var. ruby, than I do, and I'm sure they'll answer as well, with better info. Don From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Tue Oct 26 18:29:55 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Tue Oct 26 18:29:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Corundum (fluorescence) References: Message-ID: <009701c4bbc4$7795b2e0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Interesting thing about your octahedral cleavages of fluorite from Cave in Rock - the fluorite there does not fluoresce blue until you hit it! And not all will do so even then! I examined a dozen octahedrons I made, and only a small number fluoresced. One was pale yellow, another white and a third very pale purple. Others fluoresced yellow due to petroleum inclusions. I have some green fluorite from either Colorado or Utah I picked up at the mill in Rosiclare, Illinois, and those pieces are extremely bright blue under LW UV. Alan G. P.S. If you have fluorite crystals from the Gaskins mine, Pope Co., IL - it DOES fluoresce blue because of the mine's proximity to Hicks dome. The fluorite there is enriched in rare earths compared to the fluorite elsewhere in the district. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 6:19 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Corundum > Yes! > Small amounts of chromium cause corundum to fluoresce in UV as well as in > daylight... hence the red color of ruby. > Check this out: http://www.minerant.org/photo/fluoE.html > Top row 2nd and 4th image are corundum > The 4 image has also some orange in it. This has to do with twinning of > two > crystals. The chromium in the "distorted zone" where the crystals come > together suffers some shifting in its electronic "make-up", which is > thought > to cause the color-shift. > > Cheers > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jack Schmidling > Verzonden: dinsdag 26 oktober 2004 22:24 > Aan: aRockhounds > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Corundum > > > I was surprised to see a boule of ruby corundum light up a brilliant red > under UV and the gems I have cut from it likewise are really cool. > > I was not aware of the characteristic. Is this also true of natural ruby? > > js > > > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From jbryankramer at msn.com Tue Oct 26 19:38:08 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Oct 26 19:38:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Luster In-Reply-To: <000501c4bb71$44f45ba0$b1e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <006301c4bbcd$ff86ca50$6601a8c0@bryan> Well in _Barren Lands_ they describe some rough diamonds as have a pebbly surface. I have to add my praise for that book, I picked up a hard cover copy on Amazon for $3 with $3 shipping and it was worth more than that. An amazing book. Bryan -- --I found a cubic crystal today that has the general shape of --some diamonds I have seen but the surface was frosted up and --I presume a diamond would never get that way but looking at --all those pics makes me want to have another look. -- --js -- --Jack [and list]- -- --The exterior surfaces of naturally occurring diamonds --commonly do not exhibit the adamantine luster of the cut gem --because those surfaces have been affected by micro --solution-pitting. To the eye, then, they appear somewhat --greasy, or even frosted. Most of the rough diamonds we have --in our reference collection at the Thomas S. Warren Museum of --Fluorescence show little or no "glitter" in daylight; many --are rather dull. As Don noted, the luster of a mineral --should always be observed on a freshly broken surface (but --don't go smashing that diamond!). Let's hope that's what you --found--but it could just as well be fluorite, no? -- -- Cheers- Earl Verbeek -- -- -- -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- From tam2819 at cox.net Tue Oct 26 21:40:38 2004 From: tam2819 at cox.net (T.A.Masters) Date: Tue Oct 26 21:40:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Luster References: <071801c4ba0d$2439de90$555d70d1@S0033035959> <417C6DA0.61E7@Tomaszewski.net> <009101c4ba4d$d80dd5d0$565f70d1@S0033035959><417DAEAD.4974@Tomaszewski.net> <417DBD60.1030300@att.net> <000f01c4bb4a$2be94b60$80bf3ccc@j9yhq01> Message-ID: <417F26C6.4050402@cox.net> Hi, I tried to repost the "luster" message to another list and the list owner asked if I had permission. Kreigh, you were part of that discussion, I sent it on to a faceting list. May I have permission to send that messge to the other list? thanks Terrie From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Tue Oct 26 22:53:02 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Tue Oct 26 22:46:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Luster References: <071801c4ba0d$2439de90$555d70d1@S0033035959> <417C6DA0.61E7@Tomaszewski.net> <009101c4ba4d$d80dd5d0$565f70d1@S0033035959> <417DAEAD.4974@Tomaszewski.net><417DBD60.1030300@att.net> <417DC67E.17C5@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <007d01c4bbe9$3ffdfac0$52a4490c@pete> Some more about luster, index of refraction, and reflectivity... I also am unclear about that absorption coefficient 'k' in the Bohr equation that Don gave to relate reflectivity to refractive index, R = (n-1)^2 + n^2*k^2 ----------------- (n+1)^2 + n^2*k^2 (and perhaps I can use the excuse that I'm tackling this at home, and most of my mineral optics books are at my office--but it is something I'll have to try to look up & think about). And although, Kreigh, the CRC Handbook does define 'k', I can't find any table of values in it (I'm looking at a 67th edition, 1986-87). And I'm puzzled because an absorption coefficient expresses the amount of absorption per thickness of material, hence it will have units of, reciprocal units of length, and the value will be different if it is expressed in mm-1, or cm-1, or whatever. But the equation above requires 'k' to be a dimensionless number; so, like I said, I don't understand it, but perhaps I will if I do some background reading. However, if you consider only a material that does not absorb light (such as colorless diamond or any other colorless mineral), then in the equation above k=0 and the last term in both the numerator and denominator becomes zero, so the equation simply becomes, R = (n-1)(n-1) / (n+1)(n+1). Therefore you can simply calculate the reflectivity (of a non-absorbing mineral) as a function of the refractive index, and you get for example: ice r.i. = 1.31 R = 1.8% quartz r.i. = 1.54 R = 4.5% diamond r.i. = 2.42 R = 17.2% and if we had a (hypothetical) colorless mineral with r.i. = 3.0, it's reflectivity would be: ? r.i. = 3.00 R = 25 % (rutile comes close to such a mineral--see the table I've written, below) I think this matter of minerals with high refractive index is pretty interesting. Using those luster categories numerically defined, as quoted by Don, here are some examples of minerals that fall within each range (I've rounded most of the numbers off, for simplicity): 1) subvitreous, n = 1.3 - 1.5 Ice 1.31 Cryolite 1.34 Fluorite 1.4 Opal 1.4-1.5 Borax 1.45-1.47 Analcime 1.49 (2) vitreous, n = 1.5 - 1.8 Orthoclase 1.52-1.54 Quartz 1.54-1.55 Barite 1.6 Forsterite 1.6-1.7 Smithsonite 1.6-1.8 Corundum 1.8 (3) subadamantine, n = 1.8 - 2.2 Almandine 1.8 Fayalite 1.8-1.9 Cerussite 1.8-2.1 Scheelite 1.9 Zircon 1.9-2.0 Titanite 1.9-2.1 Zincite 2.0 Sulfur 2.0-2.2 Baddeleyite (ZrO2) 2.1-2.2 Graphite 2.1-2.2 (4) adamantine, n = 2.2 - 2.7 Manganotantalite 2.2-2.3 Tantalite 2.3-2.4 Goethite 2.3-2.4 Wulfenite 2.3-2.4 Crocoite 2.3-2.7 Sphalerite 2.4 Vanadinite 2.4 Diamond 2.42 Magnetite 2.42 (5) adamantine splendent, 2.7 - 3.4 Moissanite (SiC) 2.7 Rutile 2.6-2.9 Cuprite 2.85 Proustite 2.8-3.1 Hematite 2.9-3.2 Cinnabar 2.9-3.3 Selenium 3.0-4.0 Galena 3.9 One thing this list points up, is the difference between absorbing and non-absorbing (transparent) minerals; for example, magnetite has a r.i. of 2.42, the same as diamond (I'm surprised the r.i. of magnetite is this low; perhaps it's correct, but I'll have to double check this--I took all these r.i. values from the Encyclopedia of Minerals, 1st ed.). But magnetite has a higher reflectivity than diamond, and that is because it strongly absorbs light in the visible spectrum, and therefore has a submetallic luster. So I think it's fair to say that luster depends on the reflectivity as well as the refractive index, and the reflectivity in turn being affected by the absorption. [I did just look this up, and found it on webmineral (http://www.webmineral.com), which gives excellent data on reflectivity. It confirms the r.i. of magnetite as 2.42, same as diamond, and gives the reflectivity as about 21% (varies only slightly across the visible spectrum. You can see this at http://www.webmineral.com/data/Magnetite.shtml . As to diamond--well, webmineral failed me on this one, it doesn't give the reflectivity of diamond, but I guess I'll stick by the value of 17.2% that I calculated above. An aside, a related, interesting property of high-index minerals relates to those that differ strongly in their absorption of light within the visible spectrum. A classic example of this is cinnabar, a high refractive index, strongly colored mineral, and one which absorbs short-wavelength (blue) light much more strongly than it does red light. This not only accounts for the red color of cinnabar, but, if the mineral is observed in red light, it is somewhat transparent (as are the euhedral crystals of cinnabar one sees from China), and could be described as "adamantine splendent" [whatever exactly that means] as per the table above; but in blue light, because that wavelength is strongly absorbed, cinnabar would appear totally opaque, and metallic. This means that the refractive index of a mineral like cinnabar is considerably different for red light than for blue--I'll need to look this up, to give some actual numeric examples. It also relates to the fact that the band gap energy of cinnabar (a seminconductor) is lies within the energy range of the visible spectrum; for minerals like quartz, the band gap energy is much higher, and only very short wavelengths (X-ray) are strongly absorbed; thus quartz is transparent to visible and ultraviolet light. For metals the band gap energy is much smaller and all wavelengths of visible light are absorbed as well as UV, and the substance has a metallic luster. I just did look up the reflectivity of cinnabar, on webmineral, which shows nice data for reflectivity at different wavelengths. [Note, two numbers are given, because cinnabar is not isotropic; but the two values are not very different.] In violet light (400 nm) the reflectivity is 37%, but in red light (700 nm) it's only 27%. The refractive index should show a similar variation (webmineral doesn't give that data). Cinnabar has a refractive index of approximately 3, so in my hypothetical example from above of a transparent mineral with r.i. = 3.0, its calculated reflectivity would be 27%. That fits the reflectivity of cinnabar in red light very well; thus, cinnabar is essentially transparent to red light, but opaque to blue-violet. I guess that's enough refractive indices and numbers for one night! (If anyone is still following all this!) cheers, Pete Modreski From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Oct 27 02:30:00 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Oct 27 02:29:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Corundum (fluorescence) In-Reply-To: <009701c4bbc4$7795b2e0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: Hi Alan, Have you tried heating the nonfluorescent fluorite from CiR? It may very well be thermoluminescent next to triboluminescent. Best use a hot air pistol (paint stripper?) in a VERY dark room. Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Alan Goldstein Verzonden: woensdag 27 oktober 2004 3:30 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Corundum (fluorescence) Interesting thing about your octahedral cleavages of fluorite from Cave in Rock - the fluorite there does not fluoresce blue until you hit it! And not all will do so even then! I examined a dozen octahedrons I made, and only a small number fluoresced. One was pale yellow, another white and a third very pale purple. Others fluoresced yellow due to petroleum inclusions. I have some green fluorite from either Colorado or Utah I picked up at the mill in Rosiclare, Illinois, and those pieces are extremely bright blue under LW UV. Alan G. P.S. If you have fluorite crystals from the Gaskins mine, Pope Co., IL - it DOES fluoresce blue because of the mine's proximity to Hicks dome. The fluorite there is enriched in rare earths compared to the fluorite elsewhere in the district. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 6:19 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Corundum > Yes! > Small amounts of chromium cause corundum to fluoresce in UV as well as in > daylight... hence the red color of ruby. > Check this out: http://www.minerant.org/photo/fluoE.html > Top row 2nd and 4th image are corundum > The 4 image has also some orange in it. This has to do with twinning of > two > crystals. The chromium in the "distorted zone" where the crystals come > together suffers some shifting in its electronic "make-up", which is > thought > to cause the color-shift. > > Cheers > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jack Schmidling > Verzonden: dinsdag 26 oktober 2004 22:24 > Aan: aRockhounds > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Corundum > > > I was surprised to see a boule of ruby corundum light up a brilliant red > under UV and the gems I have cut from it likewise are really cool. > > I was not aware of the characteristic. Is this also true of natural ruby? > > js > > > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From buff1 at ptd.net Wed Oct 27 05:03:11 2004 From: buff1 at ptd.net (Dennis Buffenmyer) Date: Wed Oct 27 05:03:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mystery mineral In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20041026163639.01e89ad0@po2.bbn.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20041026163639.01e89ad0@po2.bbn.com> Message-ID: <417F8E7F.5070407@ptd.net> My first guess would be strengite with a major keyboard infraction..... Nathan C. Martin II wrote: > This past weekend while visiting my son in Columbus, OH, I purchased a > small specimen from the Orton Museum at Ohio State University that was > labeled as follows: > > Neteatrengite (purple) with Stewartite (yellow) > with a locality listing of Pala, California, USA > > Although I can identify stewartite as a phosphate mineral with the > chemical formula Mn++Fe+++2(PO4)2(OH)2?8(H2O), I cannot find any > reference on the web to Neteatrengite and I am guessing that either it > is an obsolete name or was misspelled when the label was prepared. > > If anyone is familiar with this mineral name or has another guess for > a purple phosphate from Pala, CA that is associated with stewartite, I > would appreciate your help. > > Best regards, > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Wed Oct 27 09:32:04 2004 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Wed Oct 27 09:32:06 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dino-toast In-Reply-To: <417F8E7F.5070407@ptd.net> Message-ID: Hi list , Maybe slightly off topic, but still rock related. Recently there grew a new debate about how the dinosaurs got extinct. Brian Toon of the University of Arizona now says the Yucatan impact scorched the entire planet and only creatures living underground (basically the rockhounds of the day) survived. (see: http://edition.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/10/27/dinosaur.toast.reut/index.htm l) Now I do not care very much about what effect of the Yucatan impact had the biggest effect on the dino's. What I wonder is was it really Yucatan? The impact crater is about 100 miles across and if true caused a mass extinction. There are more craters of similar size, but all with a different effect on global populations. Take for instance the Popigay impact, east of Khatanga in Siberia. The impact took place in late Eocene. I haven't investigated this thoroughly, but it seems there was only a minor extinction in the Oligocene. Even IF related with the 100 mile crater Popigay impact, it seems only a minor effect compared with the KT extinction. Are mammals are significantly harder to toast than dino's? :-) Any thoughts? Maurice From buff1 at ptd.net Wed Oct 27 10:08:08 2004 From: buff1 at ptd.net (Dennis Buffenmyer) Date: Wed Oct 27 10:08:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dino-toast In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <417FD5F8.90702@ptd.net> I am probably not qualified to respond in the manner in which I am about to reply, but, This whole idea of extinction happening in a matter of hours, days or even years; I just dont see the proof of it.. The fossil record seems to span at least several decades if not centuries at least....plus just how accurate is our analysis of time when it comes to the fossil record... I would more strongly support the idea of evolution providing a survival path to a large number of changing environmental conditions limited only by the rate at which dna can adapt and survive... Maurice de Graaf wrote: >Hi list , > >Maybe slightly off topic, but still rock related. Recently there grew a new >debate about how the dinosaurs got extinct. Brian Toon of the University of >Arizona now says the Yucatan impact scorched the entire planet and only >creatures living underground (basically the rockhounds of the day) survived. >(see: >http://edition.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/10/27/dinosaur.toast.reut/index.htm >l) > >Now I do not care very much about what effect of the Yucatan impact had the >biggest effect on the dino's. What I wonder is was it really Yucatan? The >impact crater is about 100 miles across and if true caused a mass >extinction. There are more craters of similar size, but all with a different >effect on global populations. Take for instance the Popigay impact, east of >Khatanga in Siberia. The impact took place in late Eocene. I haven't >investigated this thoroughly, but it seems there was only a minor extinction >in the Oligocene. Even IF related with the 100 mile crater Popigay impact, >it seems only a minor effect compared with the KT extinction. Are mammals >are significantly harder to toast than dino's? :-) > >Any thoughts? > >Maurice > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > From Gslrocks at aol.com Wed Oct 27 10:49:45 2004 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Wed Oct 27 10:50:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ultraviolation an all UV show (show notice) Message-ID: The all UV (ultraviolet Mineral) show Ultraviolation is this saturday. This is a fun and informative 1 day show! There will be plenty to see for the novice to the advanced mineral collector. Anything pertaining to ultraviolet minerals may be found here! Books, specimens, UV lamps contemporary and antique, common to very rare specimens can also be found there. show info: ULTRAVIOLATION 2004 FLUORESCENT minerals ONLY SHOW-SWAP-SELL Presented by The Rock and Mineral Club of Lower Bucks County ----------- Saturday October 30, 2004 9:00 am to 4:00 pm First United Methodist Church 840 Trenton Road Fairless Hills, Pa. Visitors Welcome Sandwiches and beverages $2.00 donation are available Ultraviolation is the show for every mineral enthusiast from novice to serious collector. Dealers strive to bring new and fascinating material each year. This show highlights fluorescent minerals exclusively. Alternating periods of darkness and room light provide the best way to see these brilliant and colorful minerals. Free admission and fluorescent specimen to junior mineralologists, ghosts and goblins under age 12. ?.keeping you in the dark for 15 years FLUORESCENT MINERALS?.BRING ?EM ON Greg Lesinski GSLROCKS 4726 Porter Center Rd. Lewiston NY 14092 Fluorescent minerals, ultraviolet lamps and reference books website www.gslrocks.com GSLROCKS@AOL.COM 716-754-9729 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu Wed Oct 27 12:16:08 2004 From: william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu (William Cordua) Date: Wed Oct 27 12:16:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dino-toast In-Reply-To: <417FD5F8.90702@ptd.net> Message-ID: I think that the location of the impact needs to be considered. The Yucatan impact (more officially the Chicxulub Crater) occurred in a shallow sea, spurring tsunamis, and also vaporizing anhydrite and other sulfur-rich minerals. This addition of sulfur-rich gases to the air unfortunately contributed to negative environmental effects. In addition the Popigay structure is smaller at 100 km - not the 170 km. of the Chicxulub feature. We really are at the infancy of understanding the possible effects of such large rare events. I think that some threshold exists where upon the ecosystem crashes with a cascade of extinctions. Chicxulub exceeded that, but Popigay perhaps did not. BTW, those of you who like mental slumming and can bum a copy of the latest "Weekly World News" (Bonnie and Wide on the cover) will encounter an article on the discovery of bones of a Barney dinosaur (big feet adapted for dancing) by paleontologist Dr. Bones - as in Seymour Bones. I don't know if Seymour is on this list or not. Turns out dinosaurs did not go extinct at the K-T boundary. According to the "article" they couldn't compete with efficient human hunters, so evolved to become smaller and friendlier. Best wishes - Dr. Bill 10/27/04 12:08 PM, Dennis Buffenmyer at buff1@ptd.net wrote: > I am probably not qualified to respond in the manner in which I am about > to reply, but, This whole idea of extinction happening in a matter of > hours, days or even years; I just dont see the proof of it.. The fossil > record seems to span at least several decades if not centuries at > least....plus just how accurate is our analysis of time when it comes > to the fossil record... I would more strongly support the idea of > evolution providing a survival path to a large number of changing > environmental conditions limited only by the rate at which dna can adapt > and survive... > > > > Maurice de Graaf wrote: > >> Hi list , >> >> Maybe slightly off topic, but still rock related. Recently there grew a new >> debate about how the dinosaurs got extinct. Brian Toon of the University of >> Arizona now says the Yucatan impact scorched the entire planet and only >> creatures living underground (basically the rockhounds of the day) survived. >> (see: >> http://edition.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/10/27/dinosaur.toast.reut/index.htm >> l) >> >> Now I do not care very much about what effect of the Yucatan impact had the >> biggest effect on the dino's. What I wonder is was it really Yucatan? The >> impact crater is about 100 miles across and if true caused a mass >> extinction. There are more craters of similar size, but all with a different >> effect on global populations. Take for instance the Popigay impact, east of >> Khatanga in Siberia. The impact took place in late Eocene. I haven't >> investigated this thoroughly, but it seems there was only a minor extinction >> in the Oligocene. Even IF related with the 100 mile crater Popigay impact, >> it seems only a minor effect compared with the KT extinction. Are mammals >> are significantly harder to toast than dino's? :-) >> >> Any thoughts? >> >> Maurice >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From k.conroy at worldnet.att.net Wed Oct 27 13:41:41 2004 From: k.conroy at worldnet.att.net (Kevin Conroy) Date: Wed Oct 27 13:40:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mystery mineral References: <5.2.0.9.2.20041026163639.01e89ad0@po2.bbn.com> <417F8E7F.5070407@ptd.net> Message-ID: <001801c4bc65$5e0dd4a0$458d4a0c@kcmins> Hi! It's probably supposed to be "metastrengite", which is actually a synonym for Phosphosiderite, the approved name. See: http://www.mindat.org/min-3187.html All the best, Kevin www.kcminerals.com > Nathan C. Martin II wrote: > > > > This past weekend while visiting my son in Columbus, OH, I purchased a > > small specimen from the Orton Museum at Ohio State University that was > > labeled as follows: > > > > Neteatrengite (purple) with Stewartite (yellow) > > with a locality listing of Pala, California, USA > > > > Although I can identify stewartite as a phosphate mineral with the > > chemical formula Mn++Fe+++2(PO4)2(OH)2?8(H2O), I cannot find any > > reference on the web to Neteatrengite and I am guessing that either it > > is an obsolete name or was misspelled when the label was prepared. > > > > If anyone is familiar with this mineral name or has another guess for > > a purple phosphate from Pala, CA that is associated with stewartite, I > > would appreciate your help. > > > > Best regards, > > Nate Martin > > Lexington, MA > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Lapadary at aol.com Wed Oct 27 13:41:31 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Wed Oct 27 13:41:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT - Dwarf human fossils found Message-ID: <7d.5bd1e040.2eb161fb@aol.com> Hobbit sized and used stone tools. The lady of the house was only 3 feet tall and she lived 18,000 ybp. _http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/041027/w102758.html_ (http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/041027/w102758.html) Since they used stone tools they were rockhounds so it is not OT Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Wed Oct 27 14:11:32 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Wed Oct 27 14:11:36 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dino-toast Message-ID: <102720042111.10087.41800F03000D68F400002767216028106007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Thanks for sharing that story, Maurice--I hadn't seen it before this. People have been arguing for fires caused by the K-T impact fireball as the cause of extinction, off and on for years; so far, their evidence has never seemed convincing to most scientists. But maybe he's right--or maybe not! And the story quotes Dr. Gerta Keller as saying "...asteroid debris, known as ejecta, found embedded in ancient rocks shows the Yucatan meteorite hit Earth many millennial before the dinosaurs vanished." She's been writing about that for a while, but as I understand it, she seems to be almost the only geoscientist who sees the evidence that way. As far as gradual extinictions due to environmental factors--well, I've always felt, here's a really big impact crater and worldwide fallout layer at pretty much exactly the time in the geologic record that the dinosaurs (and ammonites) disappeared; what more (still admitedly circumstantial) evidence do you want? cheers, Pete Modreski --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From afox at drizzle.com Wed Oct 27 14:55:00 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Wed Oct 27 14:55:05 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dino-toast In-Reply-To: <102720042111.10087.41800F03000D68F400002767216028106007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: FWIW, One of my ex-office mates at PSU has a masters in Paleontology, and an interest in mass extinctions. His particular take on the matter, which I personally tend to agree with, is that the mass extinction at the K-T boundary was most probably a combination of multiple factors, including, but not limited to: * General climate cycling (Milankovhich) * Volcanism, esp. flood basalts * Bolide impacts The end result, however, is that the effects of multiple events, spaced out over a relatively long period of time (I think the Chicxulub impact has now been pushed back 300k years before the K-T boundary), had dramatic effects on global climate. Makes more sense to me intuitively than a single event. YMMV. a. > Thanks for sharing that story, Maurice--I hadn't seen it before this. > > People have been arguing for fires caused by the K-T impact fireball as > the cause of extinction, off and on for years; so far, their evidence > has never seemed convincing to most scientists. But maybe he's > right--or maybe not! > > And the story quotes Dr. Gerta Keller as saying "...asteroid debris, > known as ejecta, found embedded in ancient rocks shows the Yucatan > meteorite hit Earth many millennial before the dinosaurs vanished." > She's been writing about that for a while, but as I understand it, she > seems to be almost the only geoscientist who sees the evidence that way. > > As far as gradual extinictions due to environmental factors--well, I've > always felt, here's a really big impact crater and worldwide fallout > layer at pretty much exactly the time in the geologic record that the > dinosaurs (and ammonites) disappeared; what more (still admitedly > circumstantial) evidence do you want? > -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Oct 27 15:49:26 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Oct 27 15:46:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Luster References: <071801c4ba0d$2439de90$555d70d1@S0033035959> <417C6DA0.61E7@Tomaszewski.net> <009101c4ba4d$d80dd5d0$565f70d1@S0033035959><417DAEAD.4974@Tomaszewski.net> <417DBD60.1030300@att.net> <000f01c4bb4a$2be94b60$80bf3ccc@j9yhq01> <417F26C6.4050402@cox.net> Message-ID: <4180252C.7833@Tomaszewski.net> T.A.Masters wrote: > > Hi, > I tried to repost the "luster" message to another list and the list > owner asked if I had permission. Kreigh, you were part of that > discussion, I sent it on to a faceting list. > > May I have permission to send that messge to the other list? > thanks > Terrie You have a responsible list owner who is concerned about copyright. You have permission to repost my messages on the topic (but I think there were a couple others in the thread you may need to ask). Kreigh From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Oct 27 16:04:01 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Oct 27 16:00:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Luster References: <071801c4ba0d$2439de90$555d70d1@S0033035959> <417C6DA0.61E7@Tomaszewski.net> <009101c4ba4d$d80dd5d0$565f70d1@S0033035959> <417DAEAD.4974@Tomaszewski.net><417DBD60.1030300@att.net> <417DC67E.17C5@Tomaszewski.net> <007d01c4bbe9$3ffdfac0$52a4490c@pete> Message-ID: <41802896.E1@Tomaszewski.net> Peter J. Modreski wrote: > And although, Kreigh, the CRC Handbook > does define 'k', I can't find any table of values in it (I'm looking at a > 67th edition, 1986-87). And I'm puzzled because an absorption coefficient > expresses the amount of absorption per thickness of material, hence it will > have units of, reciprocal units of length, and the value will be different > if it is expressed in mm-1, or cm-1, or whatever. But the equation above > requires 'k' to be a dimensionless number; so, like I said, I don't > understand it, but perhaps I will if I do some background reading. The table was 'Coeffecient of Absorption of Solar Radiation' and had a 'Reflection Coeffecients' table on the same page. I was using a well thumbed 52 edition. Kreigh From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Wed Oct 27 16:07:33 2004 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Wed Oct 27 16:07:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dino-toast In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have seen the Siberian flood basalt myself and it is by far the most impressive geological feature I have seen. It is not hard to imagine the environmental impact of such an eruption. In fact the Siberian flood basalt coincides with the Permian Triassic extinction and the Deccan flood basalt coincides with the K-T extinction. So far there is no evidence of an impact event at the Permian-Triassic boundary. I'm no expert at all and it is fairly easy to think up your own theory without any proof. But my feeling is that major eruptions had a more devastating effect on our 'wildlife' than impacts. If Aaron says that the Chicxulub impact took place about 300k years prior to the KT extinction..... Geologically that is not a long time, but climatological and biological that seems pretty long. Anyway, for those who do not know what flood basalts are. These are MASSIVE eruptions of basalt. Two are most famous. The Deccan trap in India is the basalt where we get our wonderful zeolites from. In Siberia is the Siberian flood basalt. Here are also some great zeolite localities along the Nizhnaya Tunguska river. The Siberian basalt has been traced from Yakutia to the eastern slopes of the Ural (in drillcores). That is pretty much a lava flow the size of western Europe! here ( http://maurice.strahlen.org/siberia/putorana-pic.htm ) is a small portion of the basalt, the Putorana mountains, with 600 meter deep canyons. Mount St.Helens in 1980 was really just an ant-burp. Cheers, Maurice -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Aaron Fox Sent: 27 October 2004 23:55 To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Dino-toast FWIW, One of my ex-office mates at PSU has a masters in Paleontology, and an interest in mass extinctions. His particular take on the matter, which I personally tend to agree with, is that the mass extinction at the K-T boundary was most probably a combination of multiple factors, including, but not limited to: * General climate cycling (Milankovhich) * Volcanism, esp. flood basalts * Bolide impacts The end result, however, is that the effects of multiple events, spaced out over a relatively long period of time (I think the Chicxulub impact has now been pushed back 300k years before the K-T boundary), had dramatic effects on global climate. Makes more sense to me intuitively than a single event. YMMV. a. > Thanks for sharing that story, Maurice--I hadn't seen it before this. > > People have been arguing for fires caused by the K-T impact fireball as > the cause of extinction, off and on for years; so far, their evidence > has never seemed convincing to most scientists. But maybe he's > right--or maybe not! > > And the story quotes Dr. Gerta Keller as saying "...asteroid debris, > known as ejecta, found embedded in ancient rocks shows the Yucatan > meteorite hit Earth many millennial before the dinosaurs vanished." > She's been writing about that for a while, but as I understand it, she > seems to be almost the only geoscientist who sees the evidence that way. > > As far as gradual extinictions due to environmental factors--well, I've > always felt, here's a really big impact crater and worldwide fallout > layer at pretty much exactly the time in the geologic record that the > dinosaurs (and ammonites) disappeared; what more (still admitedly > circumstantial) evidence do you want? > -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From morningstar at att.net Wed Oct 27 16:43:50 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Wed Oct 27 16:40:41 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Luster In-Reply-To: <41802896.E1@Tomaszewski.net> References: <071801c4ba0d$2439de90$555d70d1@S0033035959> <417C6DA0.61E7@Tomaszewski.net> <009101c4ba4d$d80dd5d0$565f70d1@S0033035959> <417DAEAD.4974@Tomaszewski.net><417DBD60.1030300@att.net> <417DC67E.17C5@Tomaszewski.net> <007d01c4bbe9$3ffdfac0$52a4490c@pete> <41802896.E1@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <418032B6.7040405@att.net> Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > Peter J. Modreski wrote: > >>And although, Kreigh, the CRC Handbook >>does define 'k', I can't find any table of values in it (I'm looking at a >>67th edition, 1986-87). And I'm puzzled because an absorption coefficient >>expresses the amount of absorption per thickness of material, hence it will >>have units of, reciprocal units of length, and the value will be different >>if it is expressed in mm-1, or cm-1, or whatever. But the equation above >>requires 'k' to be a dimensionless number; so, like I said, I don't >>understand it, but perhaps I will if I do some background reading. Pete (and whoever else is interested), I suppose that using the value of 'k' is good enough for this equation, especially since luster would qualify as a near-surface effect. I just checked the book again and all it says is 'k'. You are wise, on the next page, Bloss mentions that 'k' can be omitted for minerals that are nearly absent of absorption. There is more detail in that section than I have time to type; however, if you don't have a copy of the book I bet Dan has one. I'd like to see what you think of the information and perhaps confirm that I am interpreting it correctly (which is why I always cite a reference, when available). Don From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Wed Oct 27 16:54:08 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Wed Oct 27 16:54:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Corundum (fluorescence) References: Message-ID: <002d01c4bc80$40161000$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> No I haven't. I don't own a hot air pistol and I doubt a hair dryer would be hot enough. I wonder if the gas bubbles in some of them would cause the fluorite to shatter? Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 5:30 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Corundum (fluorescence) > Hi Alan, > > Have you tried heating the nonfluorescent fluorite from CiR? > It may very well be thermoluminescent next to triboluminescent. Best use a > hot air pistol (paint stripper?) in a VERY dark room. > > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Alan Goldstein > Verzonden: woensdag 27 oktober 2004 3:30 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Corundum (fluorescence) > > > Interesting thing about your octahedral cleavages of fluorite from Cave in > Rock - the fluorite there does not fluoresce blue until you hit it! And > not > all will do so even then! I examined a dozen octahedrons I made, and only > a > small number fluoresced. One was pale yellow, another white and a third > very > pale purple. Others fluoresced yellow due to petroleum inclusions. I have > some green fluorite from either Colorado or Utah I picked up at the mill > in > Rosiclare, Illinois, and those pieces are extremely bright blue under LW > UV. > > Alan G. > > P.S. If you have fluorite crystals from the Gaskins mine, Pope Co., IL - > it > DOES fluoresce blue because of the mine's proximity to Hicks dome. The > fluorite there is enriched in rare earths compared to the fluorite > elsewhere > in the district. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Axel Emmermann" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 6:19 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Corundum > > >> Yes! >> Small amounts of chromium cause corundum to fluoresce in UV as well as in >> daylight... hence the red color of ruby. >> Check this out: http://www.minerant.org/photo/fluoE.html >> Top row 2nd and 4th image are corundum >> The 4 image has also some orange in it. This has to do with twinning of >> two >> crystals. The chromium in the "distorted zone" where the crystals come >> together suffers some shifting in its electronic "make-up", which is >> thought >> to cause the color-shift. >> >> Cheers >> >> Axel >> >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >> Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jack Schmidling >> Verzonden: dinsdag 26 oktober 2004 22:24 >> Aan: aRockhounds >> Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Corundum >> >> >> I was surprised to see a boule of ruby corundum light up a brilliant red >> under UV and the gems I have cut from it likewise are really cool. >> >> I was not aware of the characteristic. Is this also true of natural >> ruby? >> >> js >> >> >> PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm >> Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From morningstar at att.net Wed Oct 27 17:11:39 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Wed Oct 27 17:08:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Luster In-Reply-To: <4180252C.7833@Tomaszewski.net> References: <071801c4ba0d$2439de90$555d70d1@S0033035959> <417C6DA0.61E7@Tomaszewski.net> <009101c4ba4d$d80dd5d0$565f70d1@S0033035959><417DAEAD.4974@Tomaszewski.net> <417DBD60.1030300@att.net> <000f01c4bb4a$2be94b60$80bf3ccc@j9yhq01> <417F26C6.4050402@cox.net> <4180252C.7833@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <4180393B.9070109@att.net> Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > T.A.Masters wrote: > > You have a responsible list owner who is concerned about copyright. You > have permission to repost my messages on the topic (but I think there > were a couple others in the thread you may need to ask). > > Kreigh As far as I am concerned, anyone can re-post anything I wrote as long as they keep the attribution with it and do not alter, mutilate, or otherwise disrupt the original intention of the post. I would also expect that such uses would be for non-profit purposes (I doubt any of my posts have commercial value, but I needed to make the point as a matter of course). Don From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Oct 27 15:23:30 2004 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Wed Oct 27 17:24:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dino-toast References: Message-ID: <003d01c4bc73$9e32b240$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Maurice, Then there are the flood basalts of the Columbia Basin here in the U.S. (Idaho, Washington and Oregon). One site mentions that, "...one of the largest flood-basalt flows extends from north-central Idaho all the way to Portland, Oregon. It covered nearly 20,000 square miles." Though it also says that the Deccan flood basalts are ten times the size of the Columbia basalts. http://www.hbcumi.cau.edu/tqp/301/301-17/lavalfl.ows.html I have an enormous collection of zeolites from OR and WA. Unfortunately, most are still boxed up awaiting cleaning, prep and identification. But I should have plenty of time this winter along with Rudy Tschernich's last copy of "Zeolites of the World" (autographed no less!) Looking forward to getting snowed in, John Siebel Santa, Idaho john@pandemoniumgraphics.com www.pandemoniumgraphics.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice de Graaf" > I have seen the Siberian flood basalt myself and it is by far the most > impressive geological feature I have seen. > Anyway, for those who do not know what flood basalts are. These are MASSIVE > eruptions of basalt. Two are most famous. The Deccan trap in India is the > basalt where we get our wonderful zeolites from. From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Oct 27 18:12:15 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Oct 27 18:08:42 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Total Lunar Eclipse Tonight Message-ID: <41804692.484E@Tomaszewski.net> I know most of you usually have your eyes on the ground looking for rocks. But if you lift your gaze starting in a few minutes (total at 10:23 pm EST for an hour and 21 minutes) you will get to see the shadow of our 8,000 mile in diameter spherical pile of dirt cover the moon in a total eclipse. Kreigh From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Oct 27 18:24:29 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Oct 27 18:20:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT - Dwarf human fossils found References: <7d.5bd1e040.2eb161fb@aol.com> Message-ID: <4180496E.3B73@Tomaszewski.net> Lapadary@aol.com wrote: > > Hobbit sized and used stone tools. The lady of the house was only 3 feet > tall and she lived 18,000 ybp. > > _http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/041027/w102758.html_ > (http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/041027/w102758.html) > > Since they used stone tools they were rockhounds so it is not OT > > Grant > ABC News is reporting that anthropologists have found the skeletal remains of seven hobbit sized hominids. The population may have been wiped out by a volcanic activity 12000 years ago or according to local legend may have lived up until the 1500's living on in caves and eating food the villagers would leave out for them. Also found were bones of giant lizards and miniature elephants. http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=198867&page=1 CBS also has the story... http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/27/tech/main651777.shtml And National Geographic http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/10/1027_041027_homo_floresiensis.html And the BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3948165.stm From jbryankramer at msn.com Wed Oct 27 18:44:02 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Oct 27 18:44:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT - Dwarf human fossils found In-Reply-To: <4180496E.3B73@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <005f01c4bc8f$9b181b10$6601a8c0@bryan> Hobbits?? BK --> -- --ABC News is reporting that anthropologists have found the --skeletal remains of seven hobbit sized hominids. The --population may have been wiped out by a volcanic activity --12000 years ago or according to local legend may have lived --up until the 1500's living on in caves and eating food the --villagers would leave out for them. Also found were bones of --giant lizards and miniature elephants. -- --http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=198867&page=1 -- --CBS also has the story... -- --http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/27/tech/main651777.shtml -- --And National Geographic -- --http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/10/1027_041027_ho mo_floresiensis.html And the BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3948165.stm _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From geenet2 at mchsi.com Wed Oct 27 18:50:20 2004 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Wed Oct 27 18:51:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT - Dwarf human fossils found References: <005f01c4bc8f$9b181b10$6601a8c0@bryan> Message-ID: <012501c4bc90$7c154de0$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> Maybe this new human should be named homo hobbitus? Or whatever the appropriate genus name should be, I'm not up on fossil humans. Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 8:44 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] OT - Dwarf human fossils found > Hobbits?? > > BK > > --> > -- > --ABC News is reporting that anthropologists have found the > --skeletal remains of seven hobbit sized hominids. The > --population may have been wiped out by a volcanic activity > --12000 years ago or according to local legend may have lived > --up until the 1500's living on in caves and eating food the > --villagers would leave out for them. Also found were bones of > --giant lizards and miniature elephants. > -- > --http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=198867&page=1 > -- > --CBS also has the story... > -- > --http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/27/tech/main651777.shtml > -- > --And National Geographic > -- > --http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/10/1027_041027_ho > mo_floresiensis.html > > And the BBC > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3948165.stm > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From mosasaur47 at msn.com Wed Oct 27 19:13:35 2004 From: mosasaur47 at msn.com (Kenneth Quinn) Date: Wed Oct 27 19:19:05 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dino-toast (long reply) References: Message-ID: I have done a lot of research recently in scholarly works on the K/T event, in preparation for proposing dissertation (had to change plans due to bad health). Let me summarize what I read, undoubtedly tinged by my own opinions. First point: Did the Yucatan impact have the ability to have dire effects worldwide? The answer seems to be yes. As Dr. Cordua points out, the calcium sulfate vaporized at the impact site could have caused very acid rain to occur over huge areas, maybe worldwide. I have seen positive and negative comments on whether there was a "heat event" that ignited forests and baked living things. It is also possible there were multiple impacts - remember the comet that hit Jupiter some years ago - but that is so far only conjecture. Second point: Did dinosaurs, ammonites, etc. become extinct at the time of that impact? There have been claims that both of those taxa were in severe decline or even extinct before the event. However, recent efforts to test those assumptions have shown that both dinosaurs and ammonites were present right to the boundary and were as diverse as ever. Something to keep in mind - dinosaur bones are very rare and it would be a surprise to see bones in every inch right up to the boundary. Why are there no bone beds as the boundary? Well, remember the acid rain, plus normal weathering of bones; in addition, population densities for that time are unknown and might have been very low for all we know. Bakker disputes that the meteor impact KOed the dinos; he says that there was no change in the diversity of amphibians, which are very sensitive to environmental factors. Possibly that is so. However, I was a field paleontologist in Nebraska for several years, working in Tertiary and Quaternary sediments. I cannot remember seeing even one bone that was amphibian, despite the sediments being laid down in freshwater environments. I think the fossil record of that group is pretty spotty. I am no expert and may be wrong on this point. Flood basalts. As I understand it, the Deccan Traps span the K/T boundary, in fact the exact boundary is in a layer of sediment between layers of basalt. If these were a major factor in the extinction, why didn't the extinctions occur when the flood basalts started? Kenneth Quinn From CRAZYDOVE at aol.com Wed Oct 27 19:42:05 2004 From: CRAZYDOVE at aol.com (CRAZYDOVE@aol.com) Date: Wed Oct 27 19:42:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Total Lunar Eclipse Tonight Message-ID: LOLOL..how lyrical and poetic! LOL......now if you could only make the dang clouds go away! Jackie --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kadok at infowest.com Wed Oct 27 21:36:06 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Wed Oct 27 21:36:10 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Total Lunar Eclipse Tonight In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041028043607.4888CCB91DF@delivery.infowest.com> Righto! It's eclipse time right now. And it is pouring rain! Margaret To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Total Lunar Eclipse Tonight LOLOL..how lyrical and poetic! LOL......now if you could only make the dang clouds go away! Jackie --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Oct 28 01:29:13 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Oct 28 01:29:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Corundum (fluorescence) In-Reply-To: <002d01c4bc80$40161000$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: Hi Alan A hair dryer just may be enough... The cracking occurs very easy and at low temperatures. That's because fluorite has pefect cleavage along the octaheder faces. If you put a fluorite crystal in the refrigerator and let it there fo an hour or so, it will crack in your hand when you hold it afterwards. I tried immersing fluorite in liquid nitrogen for 30 min. and then look what happens... Blue fluorescence turns yellow and the warming up causes a weak yellow green thermoluminescence. Every 10 seconds I 'd hear a crack or two indicating the demise of my specimen. At a certain point in the warming up, the fluorescence of the fluorite would turn back from yellow to blue: instantaneous and without prior warning signs. Fun stuff to play with but the specimens don't survive... Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Alan Goldstein Verzonden: donderdag 28 oktober 2004 1:54 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Corundum (fluorescence) No I haven't. I don't own a hot air pistol and I doubt a hair dryer would be hot enough. I wonder if the gas bubbles in some of them would cause the fluorite to shatter? Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 5:30 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Corundum (fluorescence) > Hi Alan, > > Have you tried heating the nonfluorescent fluorite from CiR? > It may very well be thermoluminescent next to triboluminescent. Best use a > hot air pistol (paint stripper?) in a VERY dark room. > > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Alan Goldstein > Verzonden: woensdag 27 oktober 2004 3:30 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Corundum (fluorescence) > > > Interesting thing about your octahedral cleavages of fluorite from Cave in > Rock - the fluorite there does not fluoresce blue until you hit it! And > not > all will do so even then! I examined a dozen octahedrons I made, and only > a > small number fluoresced. One was pale yellow, another white and a third > very > pale purple. Others fluoresced yellow due to petroleum inclusions. I have > some green fluorite from either Colorado or Utah I picked up at the mill > in > Rosiclare, Illinois, and those pieces are extremely bright blue under LW > UV. > > Alan G. > > P.S. If you have fluorite crystals from the Gaskins mine, Pope Co., IL - > it > DOES fluoresce blue because of the mine's proximity to Hicks dome. The > fluorite there is enriched in rare earths compared to the fluorite > elsewhere > in the district. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Axel Emmermann" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 6:19 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Corundum > > >> Yes! >> Small amounts of chromium cause corundum to fluoresce in UV as well as in >> daylight... hence the red color of ruby. >> Check this out: http://www.minerant.org/photo/fluoE.html >> Top row 2nd and 4th image are corundum >> The 4 image has also some orange in it. This has to do with twinning of >> two >> crystals. The chromium in the "distorted zone" where the crystals come >> together suffers some shifting in its electronic "make-up", which is >> thought >> to cause the color-shift. >> >> Cheers >> >> Axel >> >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >> Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jack Schmidling >> Verzonden: dinsdag 26 oktober 2004 22:24 >> Aan: aRockhounds >> Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Corundum >> >> >> I was surprised to see a boule of ruby corundum light up a brilliant red >> under UV and the gems I have cut from it likewise are really cool. >> >> I was not aware of the characteristic. Is this also true of natural >> ruby? >> >> js >> >> >> PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm >> Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From libawc at emory.edu Thu Oct 28 05:11:42 2004 From: libawc at emory.edu (Anita Westlake) Date: Thu Oct 28 05:11:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dino-toast In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005501c4bce7$4975a310$bcbd8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> Maurice: I didn't know the Deccan Traps are what give us those wonderful zeolites. That's a great fun fact to know and tell. By the way, does anyone know how to pronounce "Deccan"? I mention it frequently in some of my talks, but I'm never quite sure if I'm pronouncing it correctly. Anita D. Westlake -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Maurice de Graaf Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 7:08 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Dino-toast I have seen the Siberian flood basalt myself and it is by far the most impressive geological feature I have seen. It is not hard to imagine the environmental impact of such an eruption. In fact the Siberian flood basalt coincides with the Permian Triassic extinction and the Deccan flood basalt coincides with the K-T extinction. So far there is no evidence of an impact event at the Permian-Triassic boundary. I'm no expert at all and it is fairly easy to think up your own theory without any proof. But my feeling is that major eruptions had a more devastating effect on our 'wildlife' than impacts. If Aaron says that the Chicxulub impact took place about 300k years prior to the KT extinction..... Geologically that is not a long time, but climatological and biological that seems pretty long. Anyway, for those who do not know what flood basalts are. These are MASSIVE eruptions of basalt. Two are most famous. The Deccan trap in India is the basalt where we get our wonderful zeolites from. In Siberia is the Siberian flood basalt. Here are also some great zeolite localities along the Nizhnaya Tunguska river. The Siberian basalt has been traced from Yakutia to the eastern slopes of the Ural (in drillcores). That is pretty much a lava flow the size of western Europe! here ( http://maurice.strahlen.org/siberia/putorana-pic.htm ) is a small portion of the basalt, the Putorana mountains, with 600 meter deep canyons. Mount St.Helens in 1980 was really just an ant-burp. Cheers, Maurice -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Aaron Fox Sent: 27 October 2004 23:55 To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Dino-toast FWIW, One of my ex-office mates at PSU has a masters in Paleontology, and an interest in mass extinctions. His particular take on the matter, which I personally tend to agree with, is that the mass extinction at the K-T boundary was most probably a combination of multiple factors, including, but not limited to: * General climate cycling (Milankovhich) * Volcanism, esp. flood basalts * Bolide impacts The end result, however, is that the effects of multiple events, spaced out over a relatively long period of time (I think the Chicxulub impact has now been pushed back 300k years before the K-T boundary), had dramatic effects on global climate. Makes more sense to me intuitively than a single event. YMMV. a. > Thanks for sharing that story, Maurice--I hadn't seen it before this. > > People have been arguing for fires caused by the K-T impact fireball as > the cause of extinction, off and on for years; so far, their evidence > has never seemed convincing to most scientists. But maybe he's > right--or maybe not! > > And the story quotes Dr. Gerta Keller as saying "...asteroid debris, > known as ejecta, found embedded in ancient rocks shows the Yucatan > meteorite hit Earth many millennial before the dinosaurs vanished." > She's been writing about that for a while, but as I understand it, she > seems to be almost the only geoscientist who sees the evidence that way. > > As far as gradual extinictions due to environmental factors--well, I've > always felt, here's a really big impact crater and worldwide fallout > layer at pretty much exactly the time in the geologic record that the > dinosaurs (and ammonites) disappeared; what more (still admitedly > circumstantial) evidence do you want? > -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From shm at tapnet.net Thu Oct 28 06:15:19 2004 From: shm at tapnet.net (SHM) Date: Thu Oct 28 06:16:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dino-toast In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c4bcf0$4b964a10$ade4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Makes more sense to me intuitively than a single event. YMMV. -------------------------------- YMMV? What is? I may be making this up, but I seem to remember reading that a large asteroid impact can cause an episode of flood basalt volcanism to occur, so the two phenomena may be directly related. Aaron, do you have any info on that? How large an asteroid would we need to disrupt the upper mantle? Thanks- Earl Verbeek From mosasaur47 at msn.com Thu Oct 28 08:14:39 2004 From: mosasaur47 at msn.com (Kenneth Quinn) Date: Thu Oct 28 08:17:05 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dino-toast References: <000001c4bcf0$4b964a10$ade4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: > YMMV? What is? > > I may be making this up, but I seem to remember reading that a large > asteroid impact can cause an episode of flood basalt volcanism to occur, > so > the two phenomena may be directly related. Aaron, do you have any info on > that? How large an asteroid would we need to disrupt the upper mantle? "Your Mileage May Vary". I have seen speculation that the shock waves from the Yucatan impact spread around the world, meeting again at the spot that (at that time) corresponded to northern India. They then shattered the earth's crust at that point, allowing the basalt to flood out. The only problem - the older parts of the Deccan Traps were emplaced before the impact! Kenneth Quinn From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Oct 28 08:54:45 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Oct 28 08:54:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dino-toast In-Reply-To: <000001c4bcf0$4b964a10$ade4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: Hi folks, I recently read that (don't know if it's true but it makes sense): Scientists used to think that any asteroid larger than 12 to 15 kilometers would be lethal to all life on the planet. Now it seems that opinions are more differentiated... Lighter materials like rock and ice slam into the earth's crust and evaporate in the lithosphere causing massive ejection of material from crust and the meteorite/asteroid. Such an event could start firestorms worldwide. Really big nickel-iron meteorites with high impact speeds would have enough mass and inertia to punch through the crust and mantle to deep in the molten rock. The impact's energy would much easier be dissipated by the viscous magma than by the stiff lithosphere. The punched hole would be turned in to a lava lake of awesome dimensions. Naturally, a volcanic eruption of such a magnitude and duration would disrupt life on earth for centuries to come but in the long run it may cause a far lesser exinction than smaller meteorites. Basisally: if you have to choose between a 15 km rock at 25.000 Km/h and a 50 km chunk of nickel-iron at 40.000 Km/h, choose the latter. Now I wonder: could this be the way that the hot plumes, like the one feeding the Hawaiian volcanoes, come into being? Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens SHM Verzonden: donderdag 28 oktober 2004 15:15 Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Dino-toast Makes more sense to me intuitively than a single event. YMMV. -------------------------------- YMMV? What is? I may be making this up, but I seem to remember reading that a large asteroid impact can cause an episode of flood basalt volcanism to occur, so the two phenomena may be directly related. Aaron, do you have any info on that? How large an asteroid would we need to disrupt the upper mantle? Thanks- Earl Verbeek _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From afox at drizzle.com Thu Oct 28 09:05:02 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Thu Oct 28 09:05:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dino-toast In-Reply-To: <000001c4bcf0$4b964a10$ade4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Oct 2004, SHM wrote: >> Makes more sense to me intuitively than a single event. YMMV. > YMMV? What is? Your Mileage May Vary. Not quite as much fun as YHBT YHL HAND, but effective...:-) > I may be making this up, but I seem to remember reading that a large > asteroid impact can cause an episode of flood basalt volcanism to occur, so > the two phenomena may be directly related. Aaron, do you have any info on > that? How large an asteroid would we need to disrupt the upper mantle? > I don't know. Impacts aren't my specialty. Keep in mind, however, the average thickness of oceanic crust and rigid upper mantle (lithosphere) is approximately 100 km. That's a lot of material to move. And, considering the melt fraction (except near hot spots) in the upper mantle is fairly small, it seems even more unlikely (to me) that an impact could directly lead to large volumes of basalt. You'd have to have a situation where the geothermal gradient is already high, and the crust already extremely thin. However, this is not my general area of expertise (I am an engineering geologist, and not a research scientist). a. -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Oct 28 11:32:34 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Oct 28 11:32:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dino-toast Message-ID: <102820041832.26571.41813B420007F0A0000067CB216037596407059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> To Earl, Aaron, Kenneth, and all the gang who have been discussing this... The relation of impacts to initiation of flood basalt volcanism has always been "enticing", but totally speculative; I don't think there's any direct correlation ever been made. As was said, the Deccan Traps or other flood basalts, didn't initate at quite the same time as any known impact. Personally I doubt that there's any real correlation. Likewise, to attribute dino extinction to Deccan (or other volcanism)--the volcanism seems to have been over an extended period, and the extinction seems to have been a sharp event. Many of these other theories to explain dino (and other) extinction have tended just to be theories, with little evidence to support them--"it could have happened this way"--disease, climate change, separating or joining continents, etc. I guess I'd say, I "believe" in the impact as the event that caused geological science to recognize and define such a thing as the K/T boundary, and that it's the obvious reason for the extinctions then. And as of now, there's no other major synchronous impact recognized, other than Chixlub. Pete Modreski -------------- Original message from SHM : -------------- > > Makes more sense to me intuitively than a single event. YMMV. > > -------------------------------- > > YMMV? What is? > > I may be making this up, but I seem to remember reading that a large > asteroid impact can cause an episode of flood basalt volcanism to occur, so > the two phenomena may be directly related. Aaron, do you have any info on > that? How large an asteroid would we need to disrupt the upper mantle? > > Thanks- Earl Verbeek > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From morningstar at att.net Thu Oct 28 12:31:08 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Thu Oct 28 12:31:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] FW: Dick Bideaux passed away Message-ID: <102820041931.16777.418148FB000EC9BF0000418921587667559D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Once again I bear sad news. Dick was a giant in the field, and I am not worthy to eulogize him; as with Jay Liniger, I am certain that will be accomplished in print in all the major publications. His latest grand accomplishment, of course, was co-authoring the Handbook of Mineralogy. Those shoes will be extremely difficult to fill. Rest in peace! Don J. Halterman, Jr. From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 28 13:12:56 2004 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Thu Oct 28 13:13:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mystery mineral In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20041026163639.01e89ad0@po2.bbn.com> Message-ID: <20041028201256.88334.qmail@web51009.mail.yahoo.com> Probably metastrengite, aka phosphosiderite. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales www.sauktown.com --- "Nathan C. Martin II" wrote: > This past weekend while visiting my son in Columbus, > OH, I purchased a > small specimen from the Orton Museum at Ohio State > University that was > labeled as follows: > > Neteatrengite (purple) with Stewartite (yellow) > with a locality listing of Pala, California, USA > > Although I can identify stewartite as a phosphate > mineral with the chemical > formula Mn++Fe+++2(PO4)2(OH)2·8(H2O), I cannot find > any reference on the > web to Neteatrengite and I am guessing that either > it is an obsolete name > or was misspelled when the label was prepared. > > If anyone is familiar with this mineral name or has > another guess for a > purple phosphate from Pala, CA that is associated > with stewartite, I would > appreciate your help. > > Best regards, > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From pchil at botsnet.bw Thu Oct 21 14:42:29 2004 From: pchil at botsnet.bw (P.C. Hulley) Date: Thu Oct 28 14:42:10 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Total Lunar Eclipse Tonight References: <41804692.484E@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <004a01c4b7b7$189a9aa0$f348a7a8@hulley> Saw it at about 4am this morning here over Botswana in the heart of Southern Africa. The cat & dog were restless (could have been the eclipse!) I watched for a while accompanied by a cup of tea. It wasn't quite complete at the time. The cat & dog had had enough as well so we all went back to bed. There were no clouds here, wish there were! The rainy season is late this year and the heat is killing! Even at 4 am, it was in the upper twenties, and that is Celsius! Orapa, where we live is in the heart of the Kalahari / Kalagadi Desert. Most afternoons it gets into the upper thirties. Garden sprinklers attract birds by the hundred, and the slimes dams at the mine, swarm with birds and small game, even Kudu and Wildebeest. This is a diamond mine and security is high. How they get over all the coiled raser-wire fences is quite baffling! Enjoy the rain while you have it! Here in Botswana rain is PULA, which it also the name given to our currency. Not surprising considering it so scarce and so imperative to the survival of the country. Hildagarde in Botswana! ----- Original Message ----- From: Kreigh Tomaszewski To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 3:12 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Total Lunar Eclipse Tonight > I know most of you usually have your eyes on the ground looking for > rocks. But if you lift your gaze starting in a few minutes (total at > 10:23 pm EST for an hour and 21 minutes) you will get to see the shadow > of our 8,000 mile in diameter spherical pile of dirt cover the moon in a > total eclipse. > > Kreigh > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Oct 28 17:08:35 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Oct 28 17:08:19 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dino-toast References: <000001c4bcf0$4b964a10$ade4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <418189EE.2F96@Tomaszewski.net> The 'normal' eruption that produced the early part of the Traps may have subsided, only to be awakened with a vengeance by the impact. Kreigh Kenneth Quinn wrote: > > > YMMV? What is? > > > > I may be making this up, but I seem to remember reading that a large > > asteroid impact can cause an episode of flood basalt volcanism to occur, > > so > > the two phenomena may be directly related. Aaron, do you have any info on > > that? How large an asteroid would we need to disrupt the upper mantle? > > "Your Mileage May Vary". > > I have seen speculation that the shock waves from the Yucatan impact spread > around the world, meeting again at the spot that (at that time) corresponded > to northern India. They then shattered the earth's crust at that point, > allowing the basalt to flood out. The only problem - the older parts of the > Deccan Traps were emplaced before the impact! > > Kenneth Quinn From DicksWi at northville.k12.mi.us Fri Oct 29 07:06:01 2004 From: DicksWi at northville.k12.mi.us (William Dicks) Date: Fri Oct 29 07:06:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dino-toast Message-ID: Try this article re: asteroids and volcanoes. http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/asteroids_volcanoes_030204-1.html From kahako at aloha.net Fri Oct 29 11:43:58 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Oct 29 11:15:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Crystals for kids --- Thanks! Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041029084129.03030eb0@mail.aloha.net> Thank you to everyone who responded to my request for rocks or minerals to give to school kids. I think I've responded off-list to everyone who offered (and some who have already sent), but I wanted you all to know that I got a great response and my kids are going to be delighted! Hopefully some will be inspired to continue an interest and respect for collecting and geology. Kids in Hawaii are lucky to be near a volcano for lava, and great beaches for sand, but most have never seen anything else. So the quartz crystals and small pieces of pyrite, Amazonite, fossils, geodes and such that I've received or are promised and greatly appreciated!!! I do this two or three times a year at different schools, so the extras will eventually be used up, and any of you who wish to contribute in future, please contact me off-list. I'd be happy to pay postage and/or send some stuff from here in exchange. Thank you one and all. This is a great list! Aloha, Kitty From jabac at hal-pc.org Sat Oct 30 07:56:35 2004 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Sat Oct 30 07:54:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dino-toast In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1099147896.2911.9.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 11:32, Maurice de Graaf wrote: > Hi list , > > Maybe slightly off topic, but still rock related. Recently there grew a new > debate about how the dinosaurs got extinct. Brian Toon of the University of > Arizona now says the Yucatan impact scorched the entire planet and only > creatures living underground (basically the rockhounds of the day) survived. > (see: > http://edition.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/10/27/dinosaur.toast.reut/index.htm > l) > > Now I do not care very much about what effect of the Yucatan impact had the > biggest effect on the dino's. What I wonder is was it really Yucatan? The > impact crater is about 100 miles across and if true caused a mass > extinction. There are more craters of similar size, but all with a different > effect on global populations. Take for instance the Popigay impact, east of > Khatanga in Siberia. The impact took place in late Eocene. I haven't > investigated this thoroughly, but it seems there was only a minor extinction > in the Oligocene. Even IF related with the 100 mile crater Popigay impact, > it seems only a minor effect compared with the KT extinction. Are mammals > are significantly harder to toast than dino's? :-) > > Any thoughts? > > Maurice Gee whiz! Were they broiled, frozen or suffocated? Or did they just ride off into the sunset of Dinosaur-dom? Such an idea as Toon's would imply that every living animal derives from something that lived "underground" at the end of the Cretaceous, including fishes, oysters, all insects, reptiles, amphibians, birds (if any), mammals, and aerobic bacteria. Oysters notably are shallow water animals and are especially sensitive to environmental disruption. Should they not have ALL disappeared? And most fishes spawn in shallow waters as well. It is a rare animal that spends it's entire existence underground, especially among vertebrates. Also such a devastating result would have affected plant life to at least the same degree as the animal, since they both are parts of the same biota. Was there a world-wide decline and disappearance of entire classes of plant life at the KT boundary? Angiosperms dominate gymnosperms at present, but the gymnosperms are still strongly represented; would that be the case if most of the Cretaceous trees were simultaneously incinerated? It would seem that only the Dinosaurs are famously included in that cataclysm (and maybe ammonites, but not all chambered cephalopods). It is by no means certain that Alvarez' hypothesis of rapid and sudden decline of the Sauropods is true, despite what is being taught in school. The idea that only (or even mostly) underground varieties of animals survived the event is an extreme accounting of the idea at best, and defies the rest of history as we know or suppose it to be. This one-time event which amazingly affected almost exclusively the class dinosaura needs a lot of thinking about to accept. Of course the dinosaurs could have fooled all of us and became birds. Punctuated equilibrium, you know. I note that Toon's research is based upon "computer and mathematical models" and not any field research. Hmm... Aaron Fox's idea of a long series of debilitating events seems much more plausible. And that assumes that the Earth was not going to have some kind of drastic climate change on her own, which has happened without the bonus of extraordinary events, and which would seem to be related to ordinary chaos. john From hammerron at yahoo.com Sat Oct 30 08:07:15 2004 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Sat Oct 30 08:12:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Minerals of New Mexico Book (Ad) Message-ID: <002201c4be92$d5516340$b8009cac@aoldsl.net> Just wanted to share with fellow collectors, that I have a book for sale, "Minerals of New Mexico" by Stuart Northrop. This is the revised edition. It has over 600 pages!!! More info on it, if anyone is interested is available at: http://www.hammerron.com/minerals/minsalebooks.htm -Ron --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at aloha.net Tue Oct 26 18:31:08 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Oct 30 09:03:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Crystals for kids, thank you! Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041026150350.039f2a40@mail.aloha.net> Thank you to everyone who responded to my request for rocks or minerals to give to school kids. I think I've responded off-list to everyone who offered (and some who have already sent), but I wanted you all to know that I got a great response and my kids are going to be delighted! Hopefully some will be inspired to continue an interest and respect for collecting and geology. Kids in Hawaii are lucky to be near a volcano for lava, and great beaches for sand, but most have never seen anything else. So the quartz crystals and small pieces of pyrite, Amazonite, fossils, geodes and such that I've received or are promised and greatly appreciated!!! I do this two or three times a year at different schools, so the extras will eventually be used up, and any of you who wish to contribute in future, please contact me off-list. I'd be happy to pay postage and/or send some stuff from here in exchange. Thank you one and all. This is a great list! Aloha, Kitty From xtls at minresco.com Thu Oct 28 05:16:19 2004 From: xtls at minresco.com (Sharon Cisneros) Date: Sat Oct 30 09:03:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: new Mineralogy of Michigan Message-ID: <4180E313.FC9291F1@minresco.com> To: John J. Hi! Sharon here! I have been on the MTU web site and I cannot find a book review for "Mineralogy of Michigan" by Heinrich. I just bought 10 copies through George Robinson, and I need a book review to add this book to our web site. Everything on the MTU web site refers to another link which either does not work, or does not have the info. Can you help? THXX!! MINERALOGICAL RESEARCH CO. Sharon Cisneros email: xtls@minresco.com FAX: 408-926-6015 PHONE: 408-923-6800 WEB SITE: http://www.minresco.com From lord_anthraxx at yahoo.com Thu Oct 28 22:47:04 2004 From: lord_anthraxx at yahoo.com (Mike Burch) Date: Sat Oct 30 09:03:54 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ROCKHOUNDING IN NEVADA In-Reply-To: <104.5437bfac.2eb3303c@aol.com> Message-ID: <20041029054704.88972.qmail@web51608.mail.yahoo.com> Hello, I hear you're the one to seek for rockhounding in Nevada....since I'm sorta new to the state, I'm living now in Las Vegas... But since I only have a regular car, and while I was able to get around with it in some pretty rough areas in california, I am unsure of how bad the roads in Nevada are compared to california's roads. I also have started up a website, though its still in its early infant stages, and until I find work, cannot go on any field trips because of the cost of gas,and my car needs a few maintenace work done on it, before I'm willing ot take it out and about. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheDieHardRockHoundsofNevada Thats about it......latters..if you are wondering how I found your name, Lapadary@aol.com had posted something about spamming and how the other groups he is in, has had problems with it.... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From kahako at aloha.net Sat Oct 30 11:35:50 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Oct 30 11:07:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Permission (was Luster) In-Reply-To: <4180252C.7833@Tomaszewski.net> References: <071801c4ba0d$2439de90$555d70d1@S0033035959> <417C6DA0.61E7@Tomaszewski.net> <009101c4ba4d$d80dd5d0$565f70d1@S0033035959> <417DAEAD.4974@Tomaszewski.net> <417DBD60.1030300@att.net> <000f01c4bb4a$2be94b60$80bf3ccc@j9yhq01> <417F26C6.4050402@cox.net> <4180252C.7833@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041030082712.02c86d70@mail.aloha.net> I'm not sure how important asking permission is, since nearly everything we post to this list can be found on Google. Just type in the topic or the person's name with < [Rockhounds] > and there it is. Aloha, Kitty At 12:49 PM 10/27/2004, you wrote: >T.A.Masters wrote: > > > > Hi, > > I tried to repost the "luster" message to another list and the list > > owner asked if I had permission. Kreigh, you were part of that > > discussion, I sent it on to a faceting list. > > > > May I have permission to send that messge to the other list? > > thanks > > Terrie > >You have a responsible list owner who is concerned about copyright. You >have permission to repost my messages on the topic (but I think there >were a couple others in the thread you may need to ask). > >Kreigh ******* As far as I am concerned, anyone can re-post anything I wrote as long as they keep the attribution with it and do not alter, mutilate, or otherwise disrupt the original intention of the post. I would also expect that such uses would be for non-profit purposes (I doubt any of my posts have commercial value, but I needed to make the point as a matter of course). Don From afox at drizzle.com Sat Oct 30 11:38:50 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Sat Oct 30 11:38:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Archived Rockhounds Postings Message-ID: Kitty Heacox brought up something I didn't know; that Google was indexing the Rockhounds archives. The GNU Mailman software uses a hacked up version of pipermail (http://www.amk.ca/python/unmaintained/pipermail.html) to maintain a local archived copy of the Rockhounds mailing list. These archived postings can be viewed, by date, at: http://lists.drizzle.com/pipermail/rockhounds/ Since they are on the web, Google is indexing them. And, unfortunately, Google is ignoring the meta tags placed in the archive html code to NOT do this. This pisses me off. I don't have permissions to put a robots.txt file in the archive directory (I will ask Drizzle admins about this). Though Mailman munges the email adddresses to text (i.e. afox at google dot com), it's still possible with a simple perl script to grab the email addresses of subscribers from the archives, and then reconstruct the email address using a regexp. This is explicitly why I didn't want the mailing list postings to be publically indexed. They are online, and available, but just not widely known. I've already emailed the Mailman folks about adding some functionality to munge the email address further (i.e. adding bogus strings that a human can pick out, but that a generic regexp will choke on), but that's not an immediate solution. Now, I realize the archives don't have a suitable search mechanism OTHER than Google, which makes them difficult to use. Plus, there is a boatload of good material locked up in them that wouldn't be all that bad to have public. So there are trade-offs; privacy versus information freedom. So, I throw it out to the list. Does anyone (besides me) object to having Google index the archives? I will base my policy on the MAJORITY of the responses I recieve. Please respond to me in a private email with your feelings yea or nay at your convenience. If you choose not to respond one way or the other, you are NOT ALLOWED to complain about whatever policy I eventually implement. If you do, I will send a paggle (combination of a pack and a gaggle) of rabid Beavers to knaw upon your legs. ;-p PLEASE LIMIT THE ON-LIST DISCUSSION REGARDING THIS ISSUE! Questions, comments, flames, marriage proposals, and roadkill to: afox@drizzle.com Aaron Fox Rockhounds Admin -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From jemstone at amug.org Sat Oct 30 13:50:15 2004 From: jemstone at amug.org (John McLaughlin) Date: Sat Oct 30 13:50:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Archived Rockhounds Postings References: Message-ID: <006101c4bec2$0f9d5ac0$f25a2741@MCWIDOM> After giving this some thought Aaron, I think the simple perl munge should be eaten by beavers or by robots.txt. I think this gets right to the heart of the regexp, be they bogus or generic. I'm sorry if this suggestion proves to be controversial, so sorry, in fact, that I have just drizzled. Please excuse me. John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona Paggling into my munge! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Fox" To: "Rockhounds mailing list" Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2004 11:38 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Archived Rockhounds Postings > Kitty Heacox brought up something I didn't know; that Google was indexing > the Rockhounds archives. > > The GNU Mailman software uses a hacked up version of pipermail > (http://www.amk.ca/python/unmaintained/pipermail.html) to maintain a local > archived copy of the Rockhounds mailing list. These archived postings can > be viewed, by date, at: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/pipermail/rockhounds/ > > Since they are on the web, Google is indexing them. And, unfortunately, > Google is ignoring the meta tags placed in the archive html code to NOT do > this. This pisses me off. I don't have permissions to put a robots.txt > file in the archive directory (I will ask Drizzle admins about this). > > Though Mailman munges the email adddresses to text (i.e. afox at google > dot com), it's still possible with a simple perl script to grab the email > addresses of subscribers from the archives, and then reconstruct the email > address using a regexp. This is explicitly why I didn't want the mailing > list postings to be publically indexed. They are online, and available, > but just not widely known. > > I've already emailed the Mailman folks about adding some functionality to > munge the email address further (i.e. adding bogus strings that a human > can pick out, but that a generic regexp will choke on), but that's not an > immediate solution. > > Now, I realize the archives don't have a suitable search mechanism OTHER > than Google, which makes them difficult to use. Plus, there is a boatload > of good material locked up in them that wouldn't be all that bad to have > public. So there are trade-offs; privacy versus information freedom. > > So, I throw it out to the list. Does anyone (besides me) object to having > Google index the archives? I will base my policy on the MAJORITY of the > responses I recieve. Please respond to me in a private email with your > feelings yea or nay at your convenience. > > If you choose not to respond one way or the other, you are NOT ALLOWED to > complain about whatever policy I eventually implement. If you do, I will > send a paggle (combination of a pack and a gaggle) of rabid Beavers to > knaw upon your legs. ;-p > > PLEASE LIMIT THE ON-LIST DISCUSSION REGARDING THIS ISSUE! > > Questions, comments, flames, marriage proposals, and roadkill to: > afox@drizzle.com > > Aaron Fox > Rockhounds Admin > > -- > afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox > FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your > computer. Press any key to reboot > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From afox at drizzle.com Sat Oct 30 14:01:17 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Sat Oct 30 14:01:19 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Archived Rockhounds Postings In-Reply-To: <006101c4bec2$0f9d5ac0$f25a2741@MCWIDOM> Message-ID: You just made me snort coffee out of my nose. :-) a. > After giving this some thought Aaron, I think the simple perl munge should > be eaten by beavers or by robots.txt. I think this gets right to the heart > of the regexp, be they bogus or generic. I'm sorry if this suggestion > proves to be controversial, so sorry, in fact, that I have just drizzled. > Please excuse me. > > John McLaughlin > Glendale, Arizona > Paggling into my munge! > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aaron Fox" > To: "Rockhounds mailing list" > Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2004 11:38 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Archived Rockhounds Postings > > > > Kitty Heacox brought up something I didn't know; that Google was indexing > > the Rockhounds archives. > > > > The GNU Mailman software uses a hacked up version of pipermail > > (http://www.amk.ca/python/unmaintained/pipermail.html) to maintain a local > > archived copy of the Rockhounds mailing list. These archived postings can > > be viewed, by date, at: > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/pipermail/rockhounds/ > > > > Since they are on the web, Google is indexing them. And, unfortunately, > > Google is ignoring the meta tags placed in the archive html code to NOT do > > this. This pisses me off. I don't have permissions to put a robots.txt > > file in the archive directory (I will ask Drizzle admins about this). > > > > Though Mailman munges the email adddresses to text (i.e. afox at google > > dot com), it's still possible with a simple perl script to grab the email > > addresses of subscribers from the archives, and then reconstruct the email > > address using a regexp. This is explicitly why I didn't want the mailing > > list postings to be publically indexed. They are online, and available, > > but just not widely known. > > > > I've already emailed the Mailman folks about adding some functionality to > > munge the email address further (i.e. adding bogus strings that a human > > can pick out, but that a generic regexp will choke on), but that's not an > > immediate solution. > > > > Now, I realize the archives don't have a suitable search mechanism OTHER > > than Google, which makes them difficult to use. Plus, there is a boatload > > of good material locked up in them that wouldn't be all that bad to have > > public. So there are trade-offs; privacy versus information freedom. > > > > So, I throw it out to the list. Does anyone (besides me) object to having > > Google index the archives? I will base my policy on the MAJORITY of the > > responses I recieve. Please respond to me in a private email with your > > feelings yea or nay at your convenience. > > > > If you choose not to respond one way or the other, you are NOT ALLOWED to > > complain about whatever policy I eventually implement. If you do, I will > > send a paggle (combination of a pack and a gaggle) of rabid Beavers to > > knaw upon your legs. ;-p > > > > PLEASE LIMIT THE ON-LIST DISCUSSION REGARDING THIS ISSUE! > > > > Questions, comments, flames, marriage proposals, and roadkill to: > > afox@drizzle.com > > > > Aaron Fox > > Rockhounds Admin > > > > -- > > afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox > > FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your > > computer. Press any key to reboot > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From Lapadary at aol.com Sat Oct 30 14:44:37 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Sat Oct 30 14:44:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ROCKHOUNDING IN NEVADA Message-ID: <9f.50bb24ce.2eb56545@aol.com> In a message dated 10/30/04 8:04:38 AM Pacific Standard Time, lord_anthraxx@yahoo.com writes: Thats about it......latters..if you are wondering how I found your name, Lapadary@aol.com had posted something about spamming and how the other groups he is in, has had problems with it.... =============>>>>>>> Of all the list I'm on this one gets the least amount of spam. The worst are on YahooGroups. One spammer on YahooGroups was even including a tag line that said "If you object to receiving this type of commercial email you can go to ...." and then he gave instructions for how to unsubscribe from all Yahoo list. On this list, AFox, keeps a pretty good eye on spam while allowing a broad range of topic drift. The list is for rockhounds but we can -- and do -- get a little off topic at times. You will see post ranging from the cause of dinosaur extinction to the discovery of planets around distant stars. Fortunately, both are only slightly OT. The post about dinosaur extinction is not really OT since dead dino's, or even their poop, can become fossils. And the post about planets circling distant stars? We are always looking for new rockhound sites. Welcome aboard. If you post a question about rockhound to this list you will find a knowledgeable group. And you will find a lot of geographic diversity too. Grant Johnston, Chico, CA --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Oct 30 18:38:00 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Oct 30 20:34:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Permission (was Luster) References: <071801c4ba0d$2439de90$555d70d1@S0033035959> <417C6DA0.61E7@Tomaszewski.net> <009101c4ba4d$d80dd5d0$565f70d1@S0033035959> <417DAEAD.4974@Tomaszewski.net> <417DBD60.1030300@att.net> <000f01c4bb4a$2be94b60$80bf3ccc@j9yhq01> <417F26C6.4050402@cox.net> <4180252C.7833@Tomaszewski.net> <6.1.2.0.0.20041030082712.02c86d70@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <4184410E.6AE4@Tomaszewski.net> The requested permission was so that the posting could be republished in another list. Posting to a group or list (or website) is a form of publishing. Google's indexing is not republishing the work because when you click on the link returned from the search you are taken to the original item where it is published (i.e., at drizzle.com). Their inclusion of a sentence from the original also appears legitimate as 'fair use'. Where Google steps over the line into copyright violation is when they serve a cached copy, effectively republishing the work from their own website. From a technical (and legal) standpoint I understand Google's need to maintain a cached copy of what they have indexed and have no problems with that. My objection is the "Cached" link that republishes the page from a Google server instead of the original publisher (aka, drizzle.com). Admittedly, Google republishes from an anonymous IP instead of using their domain name, and Google honors robots.txt, and arguments could be made for it being legitimate use of copyrighted material (and may have already been proven in a Court of Law). It is a grey area. BTW, another grey area is archive.org, the internet's historian. They also serve up other websites from periodic snapshots. And 'periodic' may the key to making it fair use in both cases. Now to the Drizzle archive itself; I think it is a good thing and should be maintained and retained. And I don't really have any problems with allowing Google to index it for easier searching and access. Preserving shared wisdom and knowledge for others to learn from is important. My concern with any archive is that they are subject to address harvesting by spammers. Aaron has done an outstanding job of removing email addresses from the archive so the email addresses are not available whether the posting is found via Google or by digging the drizzle.com site directly (and frankly, harvesting is much easier at a website than via Google). The request to repost was correct, showed an understanding of copyright and what publishing is, and was very important from a legal standpoint (as well as being good manners). Kreigh Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > I'm not sure how important asking permission is, since nearly everything we > post to this list can be found on Google. Just type in the topic or the > person's name with < [Rockhounds] > and there it is. > > Aloha, Kitty > > At 12:49 PM 10/27/2004, you wrote: > >T.A.Masters wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > I tried to repost the "luster" message to another list and the list > > > owner asked if I had permission. Kreigh, you were part of that > > > discussion, I sent it on to a faceting list. > > > > > > May I have permission to send that messge to the other list? > > > thanks > > > Terrie > > > >You have a responsible list owner who is concerned about copyright. You > >have permission to repost my messages on the topic (but I think there > >were a couple others in the thread you may need to ask). > > > >Kreigh > > ******* > > As far as I am concerned, anyone can re-post anything I wrote as long as > they keep the attribution with it and do not alter, mutilate, or otherwise > disrupt the original intention of the post. I would also expect that such > uses would be for non-profit purposes (I doubt any of my posts have > commercial value, but I needed to make the point as a matter of course). > > Don From Ted at crystalgems.com Sat Oct 30 20:37:33 2004 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted) Date: Sat Oct 30 20:37:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ROCKHOUNDING IN NEVADA In-Reply-To: <20041029054704.88972.qmail@web51608.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000b01c4befa$f5b1fb00$0200a8c0@gametime> Welcome! Las Vegas has an excellent rock club with excellent facilities (leastways they did just a few years ago.) I do not have their contact number, but you should be able to find them via the web... Or visit any of the local rockshops and inquire. When I visited with them, a gentleman named Ed showed me his museum quality cabochons. Some were easily the most beautiful cuts of agates I have seen. Ted K Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Mike Burch Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 1:47 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] ROCKHOUNDING IN NEVADA Hello, I hear you're the one to seek for rockhounding in Nevada....since I'm sorta new to the state, I'm living now in Las Vegas... But since I only have a regular car, and while I was able to get around with it in some pretty rough areas in california, I am unsure of how bad the roads in Nevada are compared to california's roads. I also have started up a website, though its still in its early infant stages, and until I find work, cannot go on any field trips because of the cost of gas,and my car needs a few maintenace work done on it, before I'm willing ot take it out and about. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheDieHardRockHoundsofNevada Thats about it......latters..if you are wondering how I found your name, Lapadary@aol.com had posted something about spamming and how the other groups he is in, has had problems with it.... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockcurrier at cs.com Sat Oct 30 21:33:44 2004 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Sat Oct 30 21:31:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 5, Issue 28 References: <200410290100.i9T10jLN013831@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <004901c4bf02$d1d14850$bcf3a5d8@rock5> Anita, The pronuncination of Deccan is "deck con" but run the words togather. The emphasis is on neither syllable. At least that is the way it is pronunced in India when you are buying a train tickets for the Deccan Queen train that runs from Bombay up through the tunnels in the ghats (eroded foothils of the Deccan plateau) to Pune (Poona). Rock From jmonroe at sisna.com Sun Oct 31 19:31:33 2004 From: jmonroe at sisna.com (Jed and Abby) Date: Sun Oct 31 19:31:31 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounding in Nevada Message-ID: <004901c4bfc3$498cd1f0$2308bed8@jedscl07h66gyy> I just sent an e-mail to Ed in Las Vegas to make sure it would be alright for Mike Burch to contact him. Ed is a very special person and I am sure he will be happy to help wherever he can. Ed has been rockhounding Nevada for the better part of 50 years and knows where to find most anything. I'll keep you posted. Jed --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mela at bartnet.net Sun Oct 31 20:40:39 2004 From: mela at bartnet.net (Mel Albright) Date: Sun Oct 31 20:40:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ROCKHOUNDING IN NEVADA References: <000b01c4befa$f5b1fb00$0200a8c0@gametime> Message-ID: <000f01c4bfcc$f2fc9690$6401a8c0@jessie> The area rock clubs AND CONTACTS may be found via the American Federation of Mineralogical Societies - http://www.amfed.org . They will lead to one of 7 local Federations which end up covering all 50 states. I've even had people lead me on local field trips via this route. Mel Albright From Lapadary at aol.com Sun Oct 31 22:26:24 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Sun Oct 31 22:26:33 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounding in Nevada & OR Message-ID: <1c3.202bd97e.2eb73110@aol.com> In a message dated 10/31/04 7:32:05 PM Pacific Standard Time, jmonroe@sisna.com writes: >> Ed has been rockhounding Nevada for the better part of 50 years and knows where to find >> most anything. I'll keep you posted. =================== I was just up in the other end of the state, near the Black Rock Desert. About 4 or 5 weeks ago I asked this list about sites near Lakeview, OR. I got several good tips. I want to thank everyone for the tips even though I actually didn't spend much time looking for rock. I just drove the back roads and enjoyed my trip. As I drove up Highway 395 in beautiful weather, I kept thinking about the area south of Cedarville (and Surprise Valley) so when we got to Alturas we turned on highway 299. Then from Cedarville I went south toward Gerlach, NV. I wound up stopping for a while on the dirt road between Duck Lake and Lost Creek. I found some opalized wood, some petrified wood, and some obsidian along the road. It is pretty easy to find but not very interesting. The wood opal is brown but I found one small avocado green piece. I didn't stay long because one of the debates was coming on the radio that night. I knew you can't get anything on a radio down in Lost Creek canyon so I returned to the fairground at Cedarville. (maybe I would have been better of fishing in Lost Creek) The next day I drove the dirt road north from Fort Bidwell, CA to Adel, OR, then the paved highway into Lakeview. The rockshop in Lakeview has some real lapidary bargains; rough, slabs, tumbling mix, etc. In my years of looking in rockshops I've never seen lower prices. I bought a 7 pound agate for $ .70 (yes, seventy cents) I don't know if it has a name but it sounds like it could be Ochoco agate. It is cream color with a brilliant luster on a fresh fracture. I can't see any plumes or dendrites. The shape is like some pieces of carnelian agate I've seen, but there is not any red in it. At the rock shop they had some samples of polished tracinite and it is very pretty stuff. It was in the "Not for sale" case. That's a good thing because I don't think I could afford it. I also went to the jewelry store and bought my wife a pair of faceted, green sunstone ear rings. I had never seen green sunstones before. These were made by the owner of the Dust Devil Mine. And I bought a couple sunstone bracelets made by the same person -- for my granddaughters. Since I spent so much time just driving I around I didn't stop at Davis Creek or any of the other localities we discussed. I was going to look for tracinite but instead I decided to drive up the other way, to Cottonwood Flat Reservoir for the night. All in all, it was a good trip. I guess I'm getting old but I enjoyed driving around looking a lot more than I would have enjoyed walking around looking. Grant Johnston, Chico, CA --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html ---