From BETDAV97 at aol.com Wed Sep 1 05:28:57 2004 From: BETDAV97 at aol.com (BETDAV97@aol.com) Date: Wed Sep 1 05:29:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] PA minerals Message-ID: <60.43860f30.2e671a89@aol.com> Hello Johan, Talking about Phoenixville, there is a collecting site inside the Phoenixville railroad tunnel for pyrite on dolomite. That is one of the specimens I will be keeping. I don't believe the stories ever got out about the dangers of collecting inside an active railroad tunnel. Someone should write a book, once the statute of limitations runs out. Dave --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From BeeBeeBarr at aol.com Wed Sep 1 07:51:05 2004 From: BeeBeeBarr at aol.com (BeeBeeBarr@aol.com) Date: Wed Sep 1 07:51:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] More on Blue Chysoprase Message-ID: <5D50C120.6FA2D7C1.0A970CBF@aol.com> Has anyone suggested that this stuff is really what is usually called "gem silica," a term applied to a mixture of chrysocolla and chalcedony? The better grades of that are supposed to have the same translucency as fine chrysoprase but with the blue-green chrysocolla color. As for the etymology, I think it's moot. There's an accepted definition of chrysoprase; saying "blue chrysoprase" makes no more sense than saying "blue rose quartz" (even if not all roses are pink). Bill Baker Barr Ann Arbor, Michigan "Will Work for Minerals" From burnette at ispwest.com Thu Sep 2 14:52:07 2004 From: burnette at ispwest.com (burnette@ispwest.com) Date: Thu Sep 2 14:52:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Members in PA? Message-ID: <990236716aac4dffb4fea90f373ae7de.burnette@ispwest.com> I am a new member to the list, living in South Central PA (Harrisburg area). Other listers in the area feel free to contact me off list if you have or are looking for collecting sites, etc. Chip Burnette burnette@ispwest.com From kqhayes at chartermi.net Thu Sep 2 15:28:22 2004 From: kqhayes at chartermi.net (Keith Q Hayes) Date: Thu Sep 2 15:28:50 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] question - moving to Paducah, KY In-Reply-To: <990236716aac4dffb4fea90f373ae7de.burnette@ispwest.com> Message-ID: Hi Folks, it looks like I will be moving to Paducah, KY in the next month or so. Any rock clubs located around that area or suggestions for interesting collecting? Best Regards, Keith Hayes www.kqminerals.com kqhayes@chartermi.net 3705 Fuller Drive Midland, MI 48642 From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Thu Sep 2 16:39:21 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Thu Sep 2 16:39:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] question - moving to Paducah, KY References: Message-ID: <002001c49146$1278ee70$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I'm not aware of any Paducah clubs. There is an active group in Evansville which is about an hour NE of Paducah. You will be near the fluorspar district, which is great for exploration on weekends. Boyce Moodie a fluorspar geologist and speaker at our symposium in Marion, KY next month lives there. He is not a collector, per se, but is extremely knowledgeable about the mines in Kentucky. I can give you contact info (although he is in the Paducah phone book). Alan (in Louisville) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Q Hayes" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 6:28 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] question - moving to Paducah, KY > Hi Folks, it looks like I will be moving to Paducah, KY in the next month or > so. Any rock clubs located around that area or suggestions for interesting > collecting? > > Best Regards, > > Keith Hayes > www.kqminerals.com > kqhayes@chartermi.net > 3705 Fuller Drive > Midland, MI 48642 > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From ki3u at hotmail.com Thu Sep 2 17:00:41 2004 From: ki3u at hotmail.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Thu Sep 2 17:00:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Members in PA? Message-ID: Welcome Chip. I'm in northwest PA. Berj >From: "burnette@ispwest.com" >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Subject: [Rockhounds] Members in PA? >Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 14:52:07 -0700 > >I am a new member to the list, living in South Central PA (Harrisburg >area). > >Other listers in the area feel free to contact me off list if you have or >are looking for collecting sites, etc. > >Chip Burnette >burnette@ispwest.com > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfeeŽ Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From jonee at epix.net Thu Sep 2 17:41:53 2004 From: jonee at epix.net (E. L. Jones) Date: Thu Sep 2 17:41:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Members in PA? In-Reply-To: <990236716aac4dffb4fea90f373ae7de.burnette@ispwest.com> References: <990236716aac4dffb4fea90f373ae7de.burnette@ispwest.com> Message-ID: <4137BDD1.7000704@epix.net> Poconos here and always looking for a buddy to go collecting with. This weekend is Calvert Clifts btw Regards and Welcome. Elton burnette@ispwest.com wrote: >I am a new member to the list, living in South Central PA (Harrisburg area). > >Other listers in the area feel free to contact me off list if you have or are looking for collecting sites, etc. > >Chip Burnette >burnette@ispwest.com > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From jonee at epix.net Thu Sep 2 17:55:02 2004 From: jonee at epix.net (E. L. Jones) Date: Thu Sep 2 17:54:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collecting Stories - Turnbull In-Reply-To: <3DBBEF9B-FBCF-11D8-90A1-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20040831112429.01e995b0@po2.bbn.com> <3DBBEF9B-FBCF-11D8-90A1-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <4137C0E6.3000700@epix.net> I missed Nate's original post so if you are listening, I believe I am the present keeper of the boulder you were talking about. About the size of a very large watermellon? It appears to be chlorophane. I have found thumbnail lumps of transparent material there which is a very bright yellow cream FL in SW. I understand that the area has yielded both Beryl and Topaz. In old descriptions I have seen reports that there was a huge vein of massive topaz along the creek bed. Condolences, Elton chlorophane Lanny wrote: > Dear Nate, > > My sympathies on the loss of your wife. My congratulations on your > continued positive outlook on life. Kitty is right, everyone should > read your story. Writing it must have been difficult, but I believe it > was good for all of us. The next time you are in northern Idaho I > shall have to make sure my schedule gets changed so that we can > finally go collecting together. I know it will be good for me. I > already enjoy life and getting out in the field collecting, but I > believe a day with you will make it even better. > > Sincerely, > > Lanny > > > On Aug 31, 2004, at 4:11 PM, Nathan C. Martin II wrote: > >> Lanny, >> Here is my story, submitted with a lot of trepidation, for it is very >> personal. >> Nate Martin >> >> ------------------------------------------ >> It was the best of times, it was the worst of times......When Dickens >> wrote these words in the Tale of Two Cities he was talking about the >> French revolution, but they also speak to me about my collecting >> experiences (and many other things) this summer. >> >> This last weekend I was collecting in Connecticut with a friend and >> visited an old "worked out" locality near Old Mine Park in Trumbull. >> A couple of years ago we visited this locality and I came away with >> an amazing spray of tiny colorless hexagonal prisms that look for all >> the world like beryl crystals but exhibit sky blue fluorescence under >> short wave UV light. I was sure that I remembered approximately >> where the boulder was that produced this unusual specimen. >> Unfortunately, after a couple of hours of searching in the heat and >> humidity of an August day, I had to admit that I could not find it - >> memory is a funny thing - and turned my attention to the rest of the >> deposit. > > From maxwellqe2 at worldnet.att.net Thu Sep 2 17:59:57 2004 From: maxwellqe2 at worldnet.att.net (Linda Eshbaugh) Date: Thu Sep 2 18:01:05 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collecting Stories - Was(A new book giveaway!) References: <5.2.0.9.2.20040831112429.01e995b0@po2.bbn.com> Message-ID: <003a01c49151$5a226ac0$7e99490c@5f06g01> Nate - Your story touched my heart. I believe very strongly in life after death - don't care if it isn't scientific - and I am sure your wife is with you often. May the ache in your heart diminish a little every day. I've said a little prayer for your both. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nathan C. Martin II" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 6:11 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Collecting Stories - Was(A new book giveaway!) > Lanny, > Here is my story, submitted with a lot of trepidation, for it is very personal. > Nate Martin > > ------------------------------------------ > It was the best of times, it was the worst of times......When Dickens wrote > these words in the Tale of Two Cities he was talking about the French > revolution, but they also speak to me about my collecting experiences (and > many other things) this summer. > > Summers are short in New England and days spent collecting in the field are > precious adventures because the time devoted to that activity competes with > a host of other things. I always have wished that I could find more time > to be out in the field collecting. You all know the saying; so many rocks, > so little time.....so little time indeed! > > This summer has seen me in the field more times than ever, visiting several > localities; some familiar - others that I have never been to before. In > that sense, it has been the best of times, but tempered by circumstance. > > In the familiar category, I led a club trip to the VAG quarry in Eden Mills > in June. I have been there many times before and it is like visiting an > old friend, a familiar place yet always offering a surprise or two. So I > have another 5 gal bucket full of rocks in my garage, waiting to be cleaned > and etched in acid to see what, if any, treasures lie below the > calcite. So many rocks, so little time clearly applies to cleaning and > trimming as well as to collecting in the field. > > I have also visited at least four localities in New Hampshire and have been > rewarded with sharp & well formed (but alas opaque) green tourmaline, > schorl, spodumene, fluorite in shades of green, purple and clear, and ball > mica. Each of these localities involved following old directions, > sometimes supplemented by lat/long coordinates from MASMILS or info from an > old article in Rocks and Minerals. It is always a thrill to actually find > one of these localities and many times I must admit that the real goal is > to simply be outside, getting some exercise, enjoying a fine summer day, > the New Hampshire scenery and the good company of a friend. Actually > finding decent specimens becomes simply "icing on the cake." Nevertheless, > I now have several flats of material from these trips waiting to be cleaned > and sorted. I have no doubt that many will end up in the rock garden. > > This last weekend I was collecting in Connecticut with a friend and visited > an old "worked out" locality near Old Mine Park in Trumbull. A couple of > years ago we visited this locality and I came away with an amazing spray of > tiny colorless hexagonal prisms that look for all the world like beryl > crystals but exhibit sky blue fluorescence under short wave UV light. I > was sure that I remembered approximately where the boulder was that > produced this unusual specimen. Unfortunately, after a couple of hours of > searching in the heat and humidity of an August day, I had to admit that I > could not find it - memory is a funny thing - and turned my attention to > the rest of the deposit. I was very pleased to find a nice plate of > fluorite crystals, not large by most standards but at least visible without > magnification and reasonably good for the locality. However, the most fun > was coming back at night to collect fluorescent minerals. Not only was it > cooler but there there seemed to be scheelite everywhere and its brilliant > white fluorescence shone like strings of Christmas lights embedded in the > outcrop walls, boulders and hand specimens. I also found that the calcite > fluoresces red and in some cases provides a nice contrast to the blue > fluorescence of the fluorite and the occasional yellow fluorescing mineral > that I cannot yet identify. Neat stuff, and now I have a couple more 5 gal > buckets of rocks waiting to be cleaned and trimmed. So many rocks, so > little time....I've got to learn to be more selective. > > These trips have been good for me in ways much more important than > accumulating more rocks in my garage. The fresh air, the company of > friends (my youngest son on one trip), the opportunity to see new places on > this good green earth and the chance to uncover a little of the crystalline > beauty of Gods creation that lies hidden just out of sight - these things > have all contributed to my healing and have helped to take the edge off of > what for me has been the worst of times. > > For you see, life can change in an instant, and my life changed suddenly > this year when my wife of nearly 42 years, was killed in an automobile > accident the day after Mother's Day. I have learned many things since that > dreadful day. Among them are to accept life as it is (or at least to try > to), to appreciate more fully the importance of the relationships I have > with family and friends, to sit patiently and wait for the evolving colors > of the sunset, to give thanks for the gift of each new day and try to live > it to its fullest, and to keep doing not only those things that must be > done but the things that bring enjoyment and peace. For me that means > continuing to go into the field to collect minerals. > > Life indeed is short and there is not enough time to visit all the mines, > collect all the specimens or perhaps even to clean the ones we find. But > that's OK....its more important to enjoy the journey and to take the time > to love and respect those who journey with us. From my newly gained > perspective, it seems as if the question as to whether this is the best of > times or the worst of times depends both on our circumstances and our > choices. As you make your choices and accept your circumstances I hope > that you too will continue to find joy in playing in the dirt, looking for > rocks to "adopt' and take home. > > Nate Martin > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From phantomR at peoplepc.com Thu Sep 2 18:17:12 2004 From: phantomR at peoplepc.com (terry) Date: Thu Sep 2 18:11:25 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pa Message-ID: <002601c49153$be64b2c0$21ec8041@r2t2g1> Greetings Chip, We live in Williamsport, Pa. We are planning to go to the show at the Zembo on the 19th of this month. Maybe we could see you there. Terry & Veneta --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny at lrream.com Thu Sep 2 21:14:13 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Thu Sep 2 21:13:20 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A new book giveaway! Time to vote! In-Reply-To: <7ADA5E80-FA1B-11D8-90A1-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> References: <7ADA5E80-FA1B-11D8-90A1-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: Time to vote on the best field trip report! Last night was the closing for the field trip reports for the field guides to Maine and Connecticut. There is still one more day to vote, votes must be in by tomorrow, Friday at 9:00 PDT. Read the entries and vote! Regards, Lanny From LarryRush at worldnet.att.net Fri Sep 3 16:44:56 2004 From: LarryRush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Fri Sep 3 16:47:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Advertisement Message-ID: <000f01c49210$06e63a20$68804c0c@fekib> End of summer sale- 25% off of all listed prices on my web site. Good until September 21! Larry Rush www.ConnRoxMinerals.com "Noel Coward thought work was more fun than play, but he never, ever worked in the mines" --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Hammerron at aol.com Fri Sep 3 17:01:48 2004 From: Hammerron at aol.com (Hammerron@aol.com) Date: Fri Sep 3 17:01:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Jewelry finding question Message-ID: <12b.4abf9fea.2e6a5fec@aol.com> Hi: Passing this question on to a few friends that I have in the rockhounding field. I have a small bracelet that I was asked to see if I can fix. A picture of it is located at http://hammerron.com/temp090304.jpg I believe it is sterling silver, and I'm just looking for a fairly 'thick' connecting link (one that won't easily break with normal wear) that would be appropriate for this piece. I know that there are many dealers that may carry such a piece, but most are looking for a sizable minimum order. I am hoping to fix it for just a small amount of money. Could you direct me to a possible source for this? -Ron --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From llbull at hotmail.com Fri Sep 3 17:10:14 2004 From: llbull at hotmail.com (Lawrence Bull) Date: Fri Sep 3 17:10:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Greek Labels Message-ID: Hi: I have two minerals with Greek language labels...Does anyone know Greek? I will put the letters below: 1st: Phi, Theta, Omicron, Rho, Iota, Tau, Omicron, Upsilon Sigma, Epsion Kappa, Alpha, Lambda, Sigma, Opta. Tai. Eta 2nd: Alpha, Sigma, Beta, Epsilon, Sigma, Tau, Iota, Tau, Eta, Sigma Your help will be appreciated. Thank you, Larry Bull _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From diente at prismnet.com Fri Sep 3 17:24:59 2004 From: diente at prismnet.com (diente@prismnet.com) Date: Fri Sep 3 17:25:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Greek Labels In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4138C50B.32417.5739394@localhost> I'll give it a shot, just based on the letters. > 1st: Phi, Theta, Omicron, Rho, Iota, Tau, Omicron, Upsilon Sigma, > Epsion Kappa, Alpha, Lambda, Sigma, Opta. Tai. Eta PhThORITOUSE KALS?TH So is this radioactive? Some form of Thorium, perhaps. > 2nd: Alpha, Sigma, Beta, Epsilon, Sigma, Tau, Iota, Tau, Eta, Sigma ASBESTITHS......asbestite? I can't vouch for this, as I'm recollecting from college days.....Dr. Galinsky might be proud that I remembered some of this. Hope this helps, but let us know if you find out the definitive answer. Paul Bordovsky Austin, TX > From lunarcowgirl at yahoo.com Fri Sep 3 19:19:02 2004 From: lunarcowgirl at yahoo.com (Lunarcowgirl) Date: Fri Sep 3 19:19:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Jewelry finding question In-Reply-To: <12b.4abf9fea.2e6a5fec@aol.com> Message-ID: <20040904021902.8152.qmail@web40303.mail.yahoo.com> Hi try to look into a bead shop. Or a craft store. Sometimes they carry sterling jump rings that you can attach the two items together with. I am in the SF bay area and make jewerly. Do you live locally perhaps? I could give you one. I would send it in the mail but I doubt it would make it. If you can... try to get a double jump ring. LIke a split ring on our keys. That will hold for sure and wont reopen. Feel free to email me off list if you want to try to mail the jump ring. Jane --- Hammerron@aol.com wrote: > Hi: > > Passing this question on to a few friends that I > have in the rockhounding > field. I have a small bracelet that I was asked to > see if I can fix. A picture > of it is located at > http://hammerron.com/temp090304.jpg I believe it is > sterling silver, and I'm just looking for a fairly > 'thick' connecting link (one that > won't easily break with normal wear) that would be > appropriate for this > piece. I know that there are many dealers that may > carry such a piece, but most are > looking for a sizable minimum order. I am hoping to > fix it for just a small > amount of money. > > Could you direct me to a possible source for this? > > -Ron > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Fri Sep 3 19:21:52 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Fri Sep 3 19:22:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Greek Labels References: Message-ID: <003f01c49225$f28479f0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I'd figure you could identify the minerals without the labels if they are something common. Well, if you go with the letters on the second, it says ASBESTITES - asbestus? PTORITOU SE KALSO?TE - Pyrite on calcite? (just a completely wild guess) - can you get any pictures of the minerals? Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Bull" To: Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 8:10 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Greek Labels > Hi: > > I have two minerals with Greek language labels...Does anyone know Greek? I > will put the letters > below: > > 1st: Phi, Theta, Omicron, Rho, Iota, Tau, Omicron, Upsilon Sigma, > Epsion Kappa, Alpha, Lambda, Sigma, Opta. Tai. Eta > > 2nd: Alpha, Sigma, Beta, Epsilon, Sigma, Tau, Iota, Tau, Eta, Sigma > > Your help will be appreciated. > > Thank you, > > Larry Bull > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From burnette at ispwest.com Fri Sep 3 21:06:13 2004 From: burnette at ispwest.com (burnette@ispwest.com) Date: Fri Sep 3 21:06:15 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Jewelry finding question Message-ID: <763eb6a2d02e49d9987107f460a2fb6d.burnette@ispwest.com> I usually order my findings from Rio Grande, but they do have the minimum order problem. Fire Mountain does have a 6mm solder filled jumpring in sterling - comes in a package of 20 ea for $4.93. http:www.firemountaingems.com or (800)355-2137 if you are interested. Chip ----- Original Message ----- From: Hammerron@aol.com [mailto:Hammerron@aol.com] Sent: 9/3/2004 5:01:48 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Jewelry finding question > Hi: > > Passing this question on to a few friends that I have in the rockhounding > field. I have a small bracelet that I was asked to see if I can fix. A picture > of it is located at http://hammerron.com/temp090304.jpg I believe it is > sterling silver, and I'm just looking for a fairly 'thick' connecting link (one that > won't easily break with normal wear) that would be appropriate for this > piece. I know that there are many dealers that may carry such a piece, but most are > looking for a sizable minimum order. I am hoping to fix it for just a small > amount of money. > > Could you direct me to a possible source for this? > > -Ron > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From adara at avalonsong.com Sat Sep 4 07:41:59 2004 From: adara at avalonsong.com (Adara Bryn) Date: Sat Sep 4 07:41:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Greek Labels In-Reply-To: <003f01c49225$f28479f0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> References: <003f01c49225$f28479f0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040904104056.01bd3880@avalonsong.com> At 10:21 PM 9/3/2004, you wrote: >PTORITOU SE KALSO?TE - Pyrite on calcite? (just a completely wild guess) - >can you get any pictures of the minerals? I was a Greek Classics major for a time in college, and though my language is rusty at best, some sort of calcite was my guess on this one too. :) Best, Adara The sky and its stars make music in you. ? Denderah Temple wall inscription, Egypt From rockcurrier at cs.com Sat Sep 4 18:54:06 2004 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Sat Sep 4 18:52:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 3, Issue 27 References: <200408260101.i7Q11Vhr029272@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <00da01c492eb$3a7e1d90$eef9a5d8@Rock5> Dear Kreigh, Unfortunately I could not open any of the jpeg images or the "rose quartz" specimen. You might care to send them to me directly as email attachments at rockcurrier@cs.com. The specimen might not be worth the cost of finding out what it is. You will have to make that decision. If it is truly a specimen of rose quartz crystals from an Michigan locality, it would be quite unusual. Perhaps the people at the Seaman Museum might be willing to give you their opinion about it. Yours truly, Rock From rockcurrier at cs.com Sat Sep 4 19:09:40 2004 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Sat Sep 4 19:07:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 3, Issue 27 References: <200408260101.i7Q11Vhr029272@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <00e401c492ed$67b18c50$eef9a5d8@Rock5> Dear Kreigh, After reading your caution about replacing the . with a / I was able to view the jpeg images of the "rose quartz" specimen. If I had to render an opinion based only on the images, which are pretty good, I would have to agree that the quartz druze in the cavities is probably not really rose quartz but small quartz crystals stained with something else probably below the transparent to translucent quartz crystals. After seeing the pictures I think that you need not worry about cheating posterity if you did not nail down the identification of the specimen, but left it instead an unknown curiosity in a specimen drawer or perhaps even your rock garden if your wife complains too much about all the space your rocks already take up. Yours truly, Rock From rockcurrier at cs.com Sat Sep 4 19:33:49 2004 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Sat Sep 4 19:31:57 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 3, Issue 27 References: <200408260101.i7Q11Vhr029272@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <00e801c492f0$c758abe0$eef9a5d8@Rock5> Dear Ron, What is tougher, jadeite or nephrite? That is a real good question and I am not sure that any one can answer it for sure. First you would have to define very exactly what it is that you mean by tough. But they are both real tough. We sell agate (chalcedony) marbles, many of them in the 18 to 25 mm range and I often demonstrate to customers, usually to their amazement how tough they are. I take and bounce them robustly on the cement floor of our warehouse and they always rebound at least 4 to 6 feet without any damage what so ever. Every once in a great while, the marble will split cleanly along a line of weakness, usually along the banding in a died marble. I am sure that jadeite and nephrite would both be tougher than that. I have seen some goldsmiths that have a nice big flat piece of nephrite that they use to hammer and shape metal jewelry on, claiming it is better than an equivalent piece of steel. For centuries, chalcedony has been used to make mortars and pestles with which to grind up everything that you can grind and I suspect that if jadeite and nephrite were as common and cheap as chalcedony, they might make better ones than chalcedony (except for picky mineralogists who would prefer something simple to deal with like silica incase the mortar contaminated the sample). If you want to try the bouncing marble trick with regular glass marbles or with agate or quartz balls much larger than an inch, be advised that at the very least you should expect that they will suffer percussion fractures on their surface or worse. Yours truly, Rock ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 6:01 PM Subject: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 3, Issue 27 > Send Rockhounds mailing list submissions to > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > rockhounds-owner@lists.drizzle.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Rockhounds digest..." > > > [Rockhounds-Digest] > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Interesting Internet Web Site about Agate (MCGINNISG@aol.com) > 2. Re: Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 3, Issue 9 {was: A Short Trip > Report} (Kreigh Tomaszewski) > 3. Re: Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 3, Issue 9 {was: A Short Trip > Report} (John Teague) > 4. Lurking With Occasional Spasms of Verbosity (John Siebel) > 5. Re: e-mail header information (P.C. Hulley) > 6. Re: Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 3, Issue 9 {was: A Short Trip > Report} (Peter J. Modreski) > 7. RE: Lurking With Occasional Spasms of Verbosity (Maurice de Graaf) > 8. Re: Fresno Shops (Homer Eshbaugh) > 9. Jade-How tough is it? (Hammerron@aol.com) > 10. RE: Jade-How tough is it? (Henry Barwood) > 11. Re: Jade-How tough is it? (J B Murowchick) > 12. Re: Jade-How tough is it? (jaybates) > 13. Re: Lurking With Occasional Spasms of Verbosity (John Siebel) > 14. Re: Lurking With Occasional Spasms of Verbosity (Frank de Wit) > 15. RE: Lurking With Occasional Spasms of Verbosity (Maurice de Graaf) > 16. RE: [Rockhounds]Fluorescent Minerals book (Gary Brown) > 17. RE: Jade-How tough is it? (Gary Brown) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 21:36:27 EDT > From: MCGINNISG@aol.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Interesting Internet Web Site about Agate > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Message-ID: <19e.2884a3c0.2e5d471b@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > I found an interesting web site about Agate Names > http://csd.unl.edu/agates/agatelexiconletter.asp?Agate=A > Take a look-see > Timm > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:47:41 -0400 > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 3, Issue 9 {was: > A Short Trip Report} > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: <412BFDB4.1D33@Tomaszewski.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I have received the specimen in question and took a few scans of it. I > find it interesting I had some phosphoresence (or fluorescense) show up > in and around the pink crystal lined vugs in question. Images can be > seen at > > http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images.Will13.jpg > http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images.Will14.jpg > http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images.Will15.jpg > http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images.Will16.jpg > http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images.Will17.jpg > http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images.Will18.jpg > http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images.Will19.jpg > > The cobble itself appears to be a granite. > > The last image shows some small green spots from beautiful transparent > crystals (it is not a very good image; neither the color nor the clarity > show well). > > I'm reasonably certain on detailed inspection that the pink is not > caused by hematite. I don't think it is rose quartz, but still have a > few nagging doubts. My current thinking is that it is a feldspar behind > the color. > > But I'm just about ready to send this one off to the lab because I have > not been able to make a positive identification. > > Any suggestions? > > Kreigh > > > > Rock Currier wrote: > > > > Dear Kreigh, > > I found the report of your trip to Michigan interesting, especially the > > report of your brothers son finding a quartz cobble with vugs full of rose > > quartz crystals. I have never heard of any locality in the United States > > that produced rose quartz crystals except for the one in Mt. Plumbago, > > Maine. The rose quartz crystals in Maine are not very large and when they > > were discovered they were the only locality in the world know to produce > > real rose quartz crystals and not just quartz stained with iron to > > superficially display a pink color. Later of course, localities in Brazil > > were discovered that produced specimens of rose quartz crystals that far > > surpassed those from Maine. Are you sure these your brothers son found are > > real rose quartz crystals and not just iron stained quartz? If so I would > > think that the major mineral museums in Michigan would very much like to see > > the specimen. > > Rock > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 23:16:25 -0400 (GMT-04:00) > From: John Teague > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 3, Issue 9 {was: > A Short Trip Report} > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: > <10575584.1093403786126.JavaMail.root@wamui01.slb.atl.earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Please note: The dot after the "Images" in the below URLs should > be a slash ( / ) not a dot ( . ) > > John Teague > Knoxville, Tennessee > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > Sent: Aug 24, 2004 10:47 PM > To: > "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 3, Issue 9 {was: A Short Trip Report} > > I have received the specimen in question and took a few scans of it. I > find it interesting I had some phosphoresence (or fluorescense) show up > in and around the pink crystal lined vugs in question. Images can be > seen at > > http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images.Will13.jpg > http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images.Will14.jpg > http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images.Will15.jpg > http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images.Will16.jpg > http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images.Will17.jpg > http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images.Will18.jpg > http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images.Will19.jpg > > The cobble itself appears to be a granite. > > The last image shows some small green spots from beautiful transparent > crystals (it is not a very good image; neither the color nor the clarity > show well). > > I'm reasonably certain on detailed inspection that the pink is not > caused by hematite. I don't think it is rose quartz, but still have a > few nagging doubts. My current thinking is that it is a feldspar behind > the color. > > But I'm just about ready to send this one off to the lab because I have > not been able to make a positive identification. > > Any suggestions? > > Kreigh > > > > Rock Currier wrote: > > > > Dear Kreigh, > > I found the report of your trip to Michigan interesting, especially the > > report of your brothers son finding a quartz cobble with vugs full of rose > > quartz crystals. I have never heard of any locality in the United States > > that produced rose quartz crystals except for the one in Mt. Plumbago, > > Maine. The rose quartz crystals in Maine are not very large and when they > > were discovered they were the only locality in the world know to produce > > real rose quartz crystals and not just quartz stained with iron to > > superficially display a pink color. Later of course, localities in Brazil > > were discovered that produced specimens of rose quartz crystals that far > > surpassed those from Maine. Are you sure these your brothers son found are > > real rose quartz crystals and not just iron stained quartz? If so I would > > think that the major mineral museums in Michigan would very much like to see > > the specimen. > > Rock > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 20:15:40 -0500 > From: "John Siebel" > Subject: [Rockhounds] Lurking With Occasional Spasms of Verbosity > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: <005501c48a41$0f498400$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hey List! > > Julie and I have been working on a website for a non-profit that leases > villas, apartments, castles, etc. in Europe (they donate all profits to > charity). Our client wants to take Julie to Tuscany (Italy) to hang out in a > vineyard as partial remuneration for work done. I've been > viewing/cropping/color-correcting (and drooling over) photos of sites from > all over Europe for the past several days and I was thinking that she'd have > a better time rockhounding in the Swiss Alps. Any input here? > > Are there good rockhounding sites in the vicinity of Tuscany? > Julie can hike and is not afraid of a sledge and chisel. But can she hike > the Swiss Alps and find fun stuff without crampons, ropes and a husky guide > named Hans? > > Re. Partcipation thread: This is the only list out of 10 that I belong to > that has more than minimal input right now. I guess everyone else is out > digging?! > > J and I have had only two rockhounding adventures so far this summer. The > first was up Crystal Peak (possible kyanite and staurolite) here in Idaho > that ended up with a flat tire in a clearcut without a functional jack, 30 > miles from the nearest town, at 96 degrees. Long story edited here. WD-40 > saved the day. We also managed to get a few hours of digging almandine star > garnet at Emerald Creek near here a few weeks ago. 10 ounces of mostly chips > and lots of micacious mud in our boots. Good fun just the same. > > Re. Iridescent Lava as Rehab: Kitty and Bill, My belated condolences on the > loss of your pup, Hoku. We've had similar experience. As you know, we > currently have three 90 pound monsters that accompany us on all trips. > They're trained to wear my collecting vests to help carry the loads and > ferry tools and such back and forth between Julie and me when we're too > lazy, too far apart or too busy in a hole. > > Re. Oh Thy Shall Be Healed: I know that rockhounding has given me more > peace-of-mind than most other things I do. Then I take Advil. > > Re. Intros: Welcome! Don't let the physics scare you off. Us tyros can > exchange a few words too. > > Vicaiously back to the Alps, > > John > > John Siebel > Santa, Idaho > www.pandemoniumgraphics.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 06:18:09 +0200 > From: "P.C. Hulley" > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] e-mail header information > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: <004001c48804$d482b8c0$6248a7a8@hulley> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" > > Thanks John, think my p.c. internal battery is on its way out. been > switched off while we were away! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: john > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 7:49 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] e-mail header information > > > > On Thu, 1999-10-21 at 10:12, P.C. Hulley wrote: > > > I would like to echo the sentiments expressed. Would definitely have > > > participated but Kitty you were right, I was away. > > > > > > Hildegarde in Botswana. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Steve Shimatzki > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 3:59 AM > > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Free Book -the winner is.... > > > > > > Ma'am, I notice that your e-mails are all dated "Thu, 21 Oct 1999 ..." > > You may have to re-set the date and time on your computer. > > > > > > john > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 23:25:07 -0600 > From: "Peter J. Modreski" > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 3, Issue 9 {was: > A Short Trip Report} > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: <001b01c48a63$e5093dc0$f1a4490c@pete> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" > > Kreigh, > > It's still pretty hard to tell from your pictures, what the mineral in the > vugs really is. Yes, maybe some mixture of quartz and feldspar? [After a > minute or two, I did figure out the "/ instead of a ." puzzle.] > > And the deep green spots--if they're not paint rubbed on the rock (which is > really what they most look like, to be honest), perhaps they could be a > green (nonfluorescent) copper-uranium mineral, such as torbernite. > > Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 8:47 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 3,Issue 9 {was: A Short > Trip Report} > > > > I have received the specimen in question and took a few scans of it. I > > find it interesting I had some phosphoresence (or fluorescense) show up > > in and around the pink crystal lined vugs in question. Images can be > > seen at > > > > http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images.Will13.jpg > > http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images.Will14.jpg > > http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images.Will15.jpg > > http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images.Will16.jpg > > http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images.Will17.jpg > > http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images.Will18.jpg > > http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images.Will19.jpg > > > > The cobble itself appears to be a granite. > > > > The last image shows some small green spots from beautiful transparent > > crystals (it is not a very good image; neither the color nor the clarity > > show well). > > > > I'm reasonably certain on detailed inspection that the pink is not > > caused by hematite. I don't think it is rose quartz, but still have a > > few nagging doubts. My current thinking is that it is a feldspar behind > > the color. > > > > But I'm just about ready to send this one off to the lab because I have > > not been able to make a positive identification. > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > Rock Currier wrote: > > > > > > Dear Kreigh, > > > I found the report of your trip to Michigan interesting, especially > the > > > report of your brothers son finding a quartz cobble with vugs full of > rose > > > quartz crystals. I have never heard of any locality in the United States > > > that produced rose quartz crystals except for the one in Mt. Plumbago, > > > Maine. The rose quartz crystals in Maine are not very large and when > they > > > were discovered they were the only locality in the world know to produce > > > real rose quartz crystals and not just quartz stained with iron to > > > superficially display a pink color. Later of course, localities in > Brazil > > > were discovered that produced specimens of rose quartz crystals that far > > > surpassed those from Maine. Are you sure these your brothers son found > are > > > real rose quartz crystals and not just iron stained quartz? If so I > would > > > think that the major mineral museums in Michigan would very much like to > see > > > the specimen. > > > Rock > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 10:51:46 +0200 > From: "Maurice de Graaf" > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Lurking With Occasional Spasms of Verbosity > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Hi, > > >a better time rockhounding in the Swiss Alps. Any input here? > > Rockhounding in the Swiss Alps is possible. There are numerous excellent > finds each year. There are however a few problems. Almost the entire Alpine > range is a 'single locality'. What I mean is that there are not many real > mines or any pin point localitie. Finds are made all over the region. > Rockhounding in Switzerland is called 'strahlen'. Alpine minerals grow in so > called Alpine clefts. They occur sort of randomly inside the rocks. The > Strahler has the study the structure of the rocks to determine if there is a > cleft beneath. When he suspects one it might take a dig of up to a few > meters through solid rock. Not the thing to do in your holliday. Strahlen is > a hobby and profession for many many years, so all the reachable places are > searched through by now. Most finds are done at pretty high altitude near > retracting glaciers. There you can find area's where nobody has been before. > You do need a permit to go strahlen, which can be quite expensive depending > on the area and the time you will need. A friend of mine, Frank, has a > website about a lot of mineralogy localities in Europe and a special section > on the Binn valley in Switzerland, made by Ate. See: > > www.strahlen.org (go to localities) and http://binn.strahlen.org > > > >Are there good rockhounding sites in the vicinity of Tuscany? > > There are quite a few interesting sites in Tuscany. Just search mindat.org > Most famous are Pereta and Cetine antimony mines. But they exhaust poisonous > gasses and are normally off limits. Maybe you can make arrangements with the > owner??? > > Cheers, > Maurice > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:01:25 -0500 > From: "Homer Eshbaugh" > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fresno Shops > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: <002001c48aac$07266020$2399490c@HHEPC> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hello, all - > > Kevin is right, this IS a helpful site. Another is: > > http://alicatsrocks.com/2newRockShopsA.html > > HOWEVER - neither of these list is current. Both show some shops that are > out of business (sometimes for years!). You may wish to call each shop to > get current info on hours, days of operation, etc. > > I admit that this does not always work so well. Often, the area code has > changed since the rock shop was posted to the list, and you get "unknown > number". Try asking the operator for the area code of the town in question, > then redial. > > On a recent trip to Cincinnati, I was unable to contact Emerald Rock and > Gift Shop. The phone company listed their number as active, but no one ever > answered. Turns out their hours are Tuesday to Thursday, 6:30 PM to 9:00 > PM. Silly me, I was calling during normal business hours. Fortunately, the > shop was on my way to the motel, and I checked on my way by. Not only does > it exist, but it's a wonder place! > > Good luck in Fresno. Maybe you could list some of the better shops you > find. > > Homer Eshbaugh > Mequon, Wisconsin > > =============================== > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kevin Conroy" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 4:38 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fresno Shops > > > > Hi! > > > > This should help: > > > > www.osomin.com/shopsgm.htm > > > > All the best, > > Kevin > > www.kcminerals.com > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "catgbrown" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 10:00 AM > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Fresno Shops > > > > > > > Last Minute Request... > > > > > > I've got an afternoon free here in Fresno (I am "supposed" to finish > > teaching > > > at around 3 PM) and was wondering if any rock shops within 50 or so > miles > > > come to mind... I've got some nice Sterling Hill material looking for a > > west- > > > coast home. > > > > > > Thanks much. > > > Gary > > > > > > PS. Oh, it has been glorious... my boys & I took a five day vacation > > before > > > I started giving this training session. Three Whole Days without > internet > > or > > > cell phone access! Heh, heh... I made the boys take back the first > batch > > of > > > stones when I sent 'em home to St. Paul yesterday. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 12:23:31 EDT > From: Hammerron@aol.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Jade-How tough is it? > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Message-ID: <1a4.27fa3b31.2e5e1703@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Though I read once that jade is one of the toughest (as is you can bang it > with a hammer) stones. Is this so? Is nephrite or jadeite tougher? What is the > 'toughest' mineral?....just wondering. > > -Ron > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:03:55 -0500 > From: "Henry Barwood" > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Jade-How tough is it? > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" > > Can't comment on the toughness of jades, but my nomination for the toughest > substance on earth is hornfels. Baked wall rocks in the Arkansas syenites > that are thermally metamorphosed Stanley Shale (hornfels) resist hammers, > drills and crushers to an amazing extent. Mostly they represent interlocking > amphibole crystals in thin sections. Similar to the reported fabric of jade. > > Henry Barwood > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of > Hammerron@aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 11:24 AM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Jade-How tough is it? > > > Though I read once that jade is one of the toughest (as is you can bang it > with a hammer) stones. Is this so? Is nephrite or jadeite tougher? What is > the > 'toughest' mineral?....just wondering. > > -Ron > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:29:56 -0500 > From: J B Murowchick > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Jade-How tough is it? > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > I'll second Henry's hornfels nomination! I've chipped chisels and broken > hammer handles on hornfels (with only a few chips to show for the effort) in > SE Kansas, Arkansas, and the Black Hills. > > Regarding Ron's question-- > Jades are definitely tough rocks, but mineral hardness, tenacity and > cleavage, and the fabric of the rock (especially the nature of grain > boundaries and interlocking textures) all play a role in the "toughness" of > the rock. I doubt one could conclusively say that either nephrite or > jadeite jade is tougher in general. They're both strong and resistant to > wear and chipping, yet workable--hence their use in stone tools. > Emery (fine-grained corundum) might give them a run for their money in > the toughness competition, though. I recently reviewed a paper on an > ancient Chinese axe head made from emery that had a polished surface finish. > The controversy around the piece was on whether it had been worked with > diamond grit, or some other abrasive (like corundum). The authors claimed > the surface finishing features indicated diamond, but not everyone is > convinced. But despite the artifacts age and past use, it still retained a > keen edge and polish. > > Jim > __________________________________________________________ > Dr. James B. Murowchick > Associate Professor Office: (816) 235-2979 > Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall Fax: (816) 235-5535 > University of Missouri-Kansas City E-mail: murowchickj@umkc.edu > 5110 Rockhill Road > Kansas City, MO 64110 > > > > > on 8/25/04 1:03 PM, Henry Barwood at hbarwood@troyst.edu wrote: > > > Can't comment on the toughness of jades, but my nomination for the toughest > > substance on earth is hornfels. Baked wall rocks in the Arkansas syenites > > that are thermally metamorphosed Stanley Shale (hornfels) resist hammers, > > drills and crushers to an amazing extent. Mostly they represent interlocking > > amphibole crystals in thin sections. Similar to the reported fabric of jade. > > > > Henry Barwood > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of > > Hammerron@aol.com > > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 11:24 AM > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Jade-How tough is it? > > > > > > Though I read once that jade is one of the toughest (as is you can bang it > > with a hammer) stones. Is this so? Is nephrite or jadeite tougher? What is > > the > > 'toughest' mineral?....just wondering. > > > > -Ron > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:49:24 -0700 > From: "jaybates" > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Jade-How tough is it? > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: <000901c48ad4$3e10ba40$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" > > I can only tell you that I have had the privilege to bang on Clear Creek > Jadeite boulders and Nephrite boulders on the Eel river in California with a > sledge hammer and was very impressed by how tough they are. The sledge > hammer did considerable bouncing. You would think the Clear Creek jadeite > would not be so tough but it certainly was. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 9:23 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Jade-How tough is it? > > > > Though I read once that jade is one of the toughest (as is you can bang it > > with a hammer) stones. Is this so? Is nephrite or jadeite tougher? What > is the > > 'toughest' mineral?....just wondering. > > > > -Ron > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:29:06 -0500 > From: "John Siebel" > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Lurking With Occasional Spasms of Verbosity > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: <001401c48ad9$cef956c0$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" > > Thank you for the information Maurice. I corresponded briefly with Frank a > few years ago but had forgotten about his website. He seems like a fun guy! > > John > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Maurice de Graaf" > >A friend of mine, Frank, has a > > website about a lot of mineralogy localities in Europe > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 23:46:28 +0200 > From: Frank de Wit > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Lurking With Occasional Spasms of Verbosity > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: <412D08B4.4090106@home.nl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > most people hate me ;-) > by the way: I just returned from 5 weeks of holiday in rumania, hungary > and switzerland (now you really hate me :-) > I will add pics etc to www.strahlen.org as soon as I have time again > I did not take my laptop with me on holiday for the first time, that was > great, no computer for 5 weeks, almost no cell-phone for 5 weeks > the only communication was between me and my girlfriend and dog and > hand/foot communication with the nice people in rumania :-) > But that left me with about 850 unread emails when I returned home late > sunday and lots of update work on the site; about 1.200 pictures of the > visited localities to add > Now I hate email and I hate the internet, I hate my site, I wish I was > still on holiday.... ;-) > hojje! Frank > > John Siebel wrote: > > >Thank you for the information Maurice. I corresponded briefly with Frank a > >few years ago but had forgotten about his website. He seems like a fun guy! > > > >John > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Maurice de Graaf" > > > > > >>A friend of mine, Frank, has a > >>website about a lot of mineralogy localities in Europe > >> > >> > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 23:46:59 +0200 > From: "Maurice de Graaf" > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Lurking With Occasional Spasms of Verbosity > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" > > Frank is on this list, but apparently he allows us to gossip about him, > without intervening :-)) Yep he is a fun guy and he just had his five weeks > of rockhounding fun in Romania and surroundings. So he is probably sleeping > rightnow ;-)) > > cheers, > Maurice > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of John Siebel > Sent: 25 August 2004 21:29 > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Lurking With Occasional Spasms of Verbosity > > > Thank you for the information Maurice. I corresponded briefly with Frank a > few years ago but had forgotten about his website. He seems like a fun guy! > > John > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Maurice de Graaf" > >A friend of mine, Frank, has a > > website about a lot of mineralogy localities in Europe > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 17:38:02 -0500 > From: "Gary Brown" > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds]Fluorescent Minerals book > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors'" > Message-ID: <200408252234.i7PMY019032146@bubbleator.drizzle.com> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset="US-ASCII" > > And I'm tickled... A cab of Hardystonite I got from Stu on eBay is in the > book! Fun! > > GcB > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > > Kitty & Bill Heacox > > Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2004 8:23 PM > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Subject: [Rockhounds]Fluorescent Minerals book > > > > Hi List, > > > > I just received a new book by Stuart Schneider: "Collecting > > Fluorescent Minerals," that I ordered from George Polman. ..... > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 17:53:00 -0500 > From: "Gary Brown" > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Jade-How tough is it? > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors'" > Message-ID: <200408252248.i7PMmx19002500@bubbleator.drizzle.com> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset="US-ASCII" > > Tough? I chipped the corner end off a nice estwing 1/2" chisel trying to > get out some Herkimer diamonds. Tough Stuff, that matrix. > > gcb > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J > > B Murowchick > > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 1:30 PM > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Jade-How tough is it? > > > > I'll second Henry's hornfels nomination! I've chipped > > chisels and broken hammer handles on hornfels (with only a .... > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds mailing list > Rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > End of Rockhounds Digest, Vol 3, Issue 27 > ***************************************** > From rockcurrier at cs.com Sat Sep 4 19:49:25 2004 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Sat Sep 4 19:47:31 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 3, Issue 27 References: <200408260101.i7Q11Vhr029272@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <00ec01c492f2$f505b770$eef9a5d8@Rock5> One way to judge the toughness of a rock or mineral is to trim it with a standard rock trimmer that has two opposing knife blades of steel one of which is hydraulically or mechanically forced toward the other in order to break the rock. Few of these devices have instrumentation to measure the resistance of the rock, but some rock types like nephrite are really difficult to break. Sometimes they are so resistant that the breaker will not be able to break them and will actually deform the frame of the rock breaker if you insist on trying to break them. Even breaking fairly small rocks of this type, 4 to 5 inch pieces can put a lot of strain on the rock trimmer. In working with such material, you can sense the great amount of pressure the rock is producing in the trimmer and when they finally do break often the action is so violent that the rock seems to "explode", frequently throwing a piece or pieces of the rock against the nearest wall with enough force to dent the wall. Usually before I reach this point I stop and think about if I really should increase the force on the rock trimmer. Sometimes it is better just to back off and cut the thing with a diamond saw or just admit that it has you beat and go look for another smaller one to trim. If you just feel that you have to continue, be sure that you and the surrounding area are protected as well as can be against flying rocks. Rock From oldtymehippy at yahoo.com Sat Sep 4 19:52:41 2004 From: oldtymehippy at yahoo.com (Tina) Date: Sat Sep 4 19:52:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 4, Issue 4 (fixing bracelet) In-Reply-To: <200409050100.i8510M2g003684@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20040905025241.39523.qmail@web42005.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Ron, My step-father was a watchmaker & stone-setter. I have most of his jewelery tools & just a thimble full of his knowledge but, I agree that a heavey jump ring would be what you need. I also have some(jump rings). If you need any help please feel free to e-mail me. Tina --- rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com wrote: > Send Rockhounds mailing list submissions to > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > visit > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > rockhounds-owner@lists.drizzle.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it > is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Rockhounds digest..." > > > [Rockhounds-Digest] > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Jewelry finding question (Lunarcowgirl) > 2. Re: Greek Labels (Alan Goldstein) > 3. Re: Jewelry finding question > (burnette@ispwest.com) > 4. Re: Greek Labels (Adara Bryn) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 19:19:02 -0700 (PDT) > From: Lunarcowgirl > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Jewelry finding question > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock > and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: > <20040904021902.8152.qmail@web40303.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hi try to look into a bead shop. Or a craft store. > Sometimes they carry sterling jump rings that you > can > attach the two items together with. I am in the SF > bay > area and make jewerly. Do you live locally perhaps? > I > could give you one. I would send it in the mail but > I > doubt it would make it. If you can... try to get a > double jump ring. LIke a split ring on our keys. > That > will hold for sure and wont reopen. > > Feel free to email me off list if you want to try to > mail the jump ring. > > Jane > --- Hammerron@aol.com wrote: > > > Hi: > > > > Passing this question on to a few friends that I > > have in the rockhounding > > field. I have a small bracelet that I was asked > to > > see if I can fix. A picture > > of it is located at > > http://hammerron.com/temp090304.jpg I believe it > is > > sterling silver, and I'm just looking for a fairly > > 'thick' connecting link (one that > > won't easily break with normal wear) that would be > > appropriate for this > > piece. I know that there are many dealers that may > > carry such a piece, but most are > > looking for a sizable minimum order. I am hoping > to > > fix it for just a small > > amount of money. > > > > Could you direct me to a possible source for this? > > > > -Ron > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 22:21:52 -0400 > From: "Alan Goldstein" > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Greek Labels > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock > and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: > <003f01c49225$f28479f0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" > > I'd figure you could identify the minerals without > the labels if they are > something common. > > Well, if you go with the letters on the second, it > says ASBESTITES - > asbestus? > > PTORITOU SE KALSO?TE - Pyrite on calcite? (just a > completely wild guess) - > can you get any pictures of the minerals? > > Alan > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lawrence Bull" > To: > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 8:10 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Greek Labels > > > > Hi: > > > > I have two minerals with Greek language > labels...Does anyone know Greek? I > > will put the letters > > below: > > > > 1st: Phi, Theta, Omicron, Rho, Iota, Tau, Omicron, > Upsilon Sigma, > > Epsion Kappa, Alpha, Lambda, Sigma, Opta. > Tai. Eta > > > > 2nd: Alpha, Sigma, Beta, Epsilon, Sigma, Tau, > Iota, Tau, Eta, Sigma > > > > Your help will be appreciated. > > > > Thank you, > > > > Larry Bull > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! > Download today - it's FREE! > > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 21:06:13 -0700 > From: "burnette@ispwest.com" > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Jewelry finding question > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock > and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: > <763eb6a2d02e49d9987107f460a2fb6d.burnette@ispwest.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > I usually order my findings from Rio Grande, but > they do have the minimum order problem. Fire > Mountain does have a 6mm solder filled jumpring in > sterling - comes in a package of 20 ea for $4.93. > === message truncated === _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. http://messenger.yahoo.com From lehkerd at gvsu.edu Sat Sep 4 20:33:42 2004 From: lehkerd at gvsu.edu (David Lehker) Date: Sat Sep 4 20:34:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dextrin? Message-ID: I recently collected several carbon fern fossils and in looking for how to prepare them found a reference to Dextrin. I did a search and can find very little on this substance as something to use for fossil stabilization. Anyone familiar with it or where to get it? Any suggestions on basic, inexpensive preparation of carbon based fern fossils? From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Sep 5 02:34:48 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Sep 5 02:34:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dextrin? References: Message-ID: <001e01c4932b$9638d400$1cbffea9@HPAXEL> Hi David it's malt sugar, typically composed of Glucose: 1 % Maltose: 6 % Poly-saccharides: 91 % It's made from wheat starch syrup by spray drying and enzyme treatment under controlled Ph. The idea is, I think, to impregnate a fossil with a dextrin solution. The rock appears darker and glossy afterwards and also gains structural strength (if porous) due to the sugar crystals that bind grains of rock and glue cracks. The specimen may attract flies and small children after treatment ;-))))) Wouldn't it be easier to immerse a specimen in a diluted solution of methyl metacrylate or even use an acryl spray? Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Lehker" To: Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 5:33 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Dextrin? > > > I recently collected several carbon fern fossils and in looking for how > to prepare them found a reference to Dextrin. I did a search and can > find very little on this substance as something to use for fossil > stabilization. Anyone familiar with it or where to get it? > > Any suggestions on basic, inexpensive preparation of carbon based fern > fossils? > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sun Sep 5 03:00:33 2004 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sun Sep 5 03:00:33 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dextrin? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, It really depends on the type of rock. I hear many people complaining about instability of their carbon fossils. The trick is to collect not the coal itself. At least here in Europe most coal deposits consists of banks of coal inbetween black shale like rock. The fossils in that shale are very stable and require no preparation at all. Fossils of real coal are a disaster. The coal I collected (Holland, Ibbenbuhren and Ruhr area) is pretty rich in pyrite. That will inevitably oxidize and fall apart, making your whole sample instable. Varnishing might help, but I do not like the unnatural luster of that. So I personally leave all true coal fossils on the dump and only take the shale fossils. But if anyone has an idea of preparing carbon fossils without yielding an unnatural luster (or swarms of flies and children :-) ) I'm interested! Cheers, Maurice -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of David Lehker Sent: 05 September 2004 05:34 To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Dextrin? I recently collected several carbon fern fossils and in looking for how to prepare them found a reference to Dextrin. I did a search and can find very little on this substance as something to use for fossil stabilization. Anyone familiar with it or where to get it? Any suggestions on basic, inexpensive preparation of carbon based fern fossils? _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Sep 5 08:26:13 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Sep 5 08:26:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 3, Issue 27 References: <200408260101.i7Q11Vhr029272@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <00da01c492eb$3a7e1d90$eef9a5d8@Rock5> Message-ID: <413B3014.25B1@Tomaszewski.net> Rock, As someone pointed out, I had made a typo in the URLs. They should have been http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images/Will13.jpg http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images/Will14.jpg http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images/Will15.jpg http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images/Will16.jpg http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images/Will17.jpg http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images/Will18.jpg http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images/Will19.jpg and I added http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images/Will24.jpg http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images/Will25.jpg Kreigh Rock Currier wrote: > > Dear Kreigh, > Unfortunately I could not open any of the jpeg images or the "rose > quartz" specimen. You might care to send them to me directly as email > attachments at rockcurrier@cs.com. The specimen might not be worth the cost > of finding out what it is. You will have to make that decision. If it is > truly a specimen of rose quartz crystals from an Michigan locality, it would > be quite unusual. Perhaps the people at the Seaman Museum might be willing > to give you their opinion about it. > > Yours truly, Rock From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Sep 5 08:47:05 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Sep 5 08:47:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dextrin? References: Message-ID: <413B34F4.3CF6@Tomaszewski.net> Butvar, a polyvinyl resin, is commonly used for preserving fossils. Kreigh Maurice de Graaf wrote: > > Hi, > > It really depends on the type of rock. I hear many people complaining about > instability of their carbon fossils. The trick is to collect not the coal > itself. At least here in Europe most coal deposits consists of banks of coal > inbetween black shale like rock. The fossils in that shale are very stable > and require no preparation at all. > Fossils of real coal are a disaster. The coal I collected (Holland, > Ibbenbuhren and Ruhr area) is pretty rich in pyrite. That will inevitably > oxidize and fall apart, making your whole sample instable. Varnishing might > help, but I do not like the unnatural luster of that. > So I personally leave all true coal fossils on the dump and only take the > shale fossils. > > But if anyone has an idea of preparing carbon fossils without yielding an > unnatural luster (or swarms of flies and children :-) ) I'm interested! > > Cheers, > Maurice > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of David Lehker > Sent: 05 September 2004 05:34 > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Dextrin? > > I recently collected several carbon fern fossils and in looking for how > to prepare them found a reference to Dextrin. I did a search and can > find very little on this substance as something to use for fossil > stabilization. Anyone familiar with it or where to get it? > > Any suggestions on basic, inexpensive preparation of carbon based fern > fossils? From rainforest1950 at lycos.com Sun Sep 5 09:37:25 2004 From: rainforest1950 at lycos.com (rain forest) Date: Sun Sep 5 09:37:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] All Greek to me Message-ID: <20040905163725.8689B3384B@ws7-3.us4.outblaze.com> Have you tried Babblefish? It's an on-line translation service. David Bese The Rainforest Hippie Pt. Orchard, Wa. -- _______________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 From Docia1154 at aol.com Sun Sep 5 13:31:13 2004 From: Docia1154 at aol.com (Docia1154@aol.com) Date: Sun Sep 5 13:31:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dextrin? Message-ID: In a message dated 9/4/2004 10:34:27 PM Central Daylight Time, lehkerd@gvsu.edu writes: I recently collected several carbon fern fossils and in looking for how to prepare them found a reference to Dextrin. I did a search and can find very little on this substance as something to use for fossil stabilization. Anyone familiar with it or where to get it? Any suggestions on basic, inexpensive preparation of carbon based fern fossils? _______________________________________________ from workers at the Pink Palace in Memphis I was told to stabilize fossils they use a solution of 50% Johnson's floor was (clear) with 50% water - soak overnight and then let dry. Don't know if they applied this to all fossils or???? Docia --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From BETDAV97 at aol.com Sun Sep 5 14:29:21 2004 From: BETDAV97 at aol.com (BETDAV97@aol.com) Date: Sun Sep 5 14:29:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 3, Issue 27 Message-ID: Just my two cents worth, I'm from WVa, where we have iron staining on almost everything, not really but sometimes it seems that way. Iron staining gives a more citrine appearance on our quartz. This looks as pink as anything I've seen. Dave --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Sep 5 15:25:52 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Sep 5 15:25:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] All Greek to me References: <20040905163725.8689B3384B@ws7-3.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <002e01c49397$4dcecdc0$1cbffea9@HPAXEL> Watch out for those "free services". They tend to throw cookies at you... data and e-mail harvesters usually find their way to your PC via such websites. Firewall up and running please ;-)))! Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "rain forest" To: Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 6:37 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] All Greek to me > Have you tried Babblefish? It's an on-line translation service. > > David Bese > The Rainforest Hippie > Pt. Orchard, Wa. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages > http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Sep 5 17:30:11 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Sep 5 17:28:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dextrin? References: Message-ID: <413BAF47.6419@Tomaszewski.net> The Black Hills Institute uses superglue and/or PVA for stabalizing fossils. Docia1154@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 9/4/2004 10:34:27 PM Central Daylight Time, > lehkerd@gvsu.edu writes: > I recently collected several carbon fern fossils and in looking for how > to prepare them found a reference to Dextrin. I did a search and can > find very little on this substance as something to use for fossil > stabilization. Anyone familiar with it or where to get it? > > Any suggestions on basic, inexpensive preparation of carbon based fern > fossils? > _______________________________________________ > > from workers at the Pink Palace in Memphis I was told to stabilize fossils > they use a solution of 50% Johnson's floor was (clear) with 50% water - soak > overnight and then let dry. Don't know if they applied this to all fossils or???? > > Docia > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From MCGINNISG at aol.com Sun Sep 5 18:32:26 2004 From: MCGINNISG at aol.com (MCGINNISG@aol.com) Date: Sun Sep 5 18:32:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Blue Chysoprase vs. Gem Silica Message-ID: <19d.2952812f.2e6d182a@aol.com> While attending the Canby Oregon mineral show, I spoke with an elderly gentleman in his late 80's who was a gem dealer during the 1960's. He claimed to be familiar with Blue Chrysoprase. It is indeed is Chrysocolla Gem Silica. He claimed that during the 1960's a claim in Pinal County Arizona produced extremely fine chrysocolla gem silica that so closely resembled chrysoprase that many dealers were referring to it as "Blue Chrysoprase." He showed me a ring made from the material and it was a very rich, dark blue-turquoise color. To say the least, it was a very impressive stone. Tim --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From prgilmore at hotmail.com Sun Sep 5 19:04:19 2004 From: prgilmore at hotmail.com (Paul Gilmore) Date: Sun Sep 5 19:04:20 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Greek Labels Message-ID: Hi Larry: The end fo the first label is "calcite", and the second label is "asbestos". Paul >From: "Lawrence Bull" >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Subject: [Rockhounds] Greek Labels >Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 00:10:14 +0000 > > > >I have two minerals with Greek language labels...Does anyone know Greek? I >will put the letters >below: > >1st: Phi, Theta, Omicron, Rho, Iota, Tau, Omicron, Upsilon Sigma, >Epsion Kappa, Alpha, Lambda, Sigma, Opta. Tai. Eta > >2nd: Alpha, Sigma, Beta, Epsilon, Sigma, Tau, Iota, Tau, Eta, Sigma > >Your help will be appreciated. > >Thank you, > >Larry Bull > >_________________________________________________________________ >Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! >http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ From sonskynm at telkomsa.net Sun Sep 5 20:35:53 2004 From: sonskynm at telkomsa.net (Gerhard en Rietha Bindeman) Date: Sun Sep 5 20:36:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: DEXTRIN Message-ID: <004301c493c2$9f4675b0$010aa8c0@gerhard> HI I USE A MATT FINISH ACRYLIC SPRAY IT LOOKS GREAT AND IF THE ROCK IS BRITTLE I SPRAY ALL ROUND.IT HOLDS EVERY THING TOGETHER PERFECTLY. YEARS AGO I USED SAMSONITE DISOLVED IN THINNERS AND PAINTED IT ON ALSO WORKS WONDERFUL CHEERS GERHARD --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny at lrream.com Sun Sep 5 21:33:20 2004 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sun Sep 5 21:32:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] A new book giveaway! Votes are In! In-Reply-To: <005701c491bf$93332480$468c4c0c@fekib> References: <7ADA5E80-FA1B-11D8-90A1-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <005701c491bf$93332480$468c4c0c@fekib> Message-ID: The field trip stories were received and the votes have been sent in. It was a unanimous vote, all votes were for Nathan Martin's report. Congratulations Nate, you get the suite of NE field guides. Regards, Lanny From kahako at aloha.net Sun Sep 5 22:16:18 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Sep 5 21:48:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Changing Subject/Topic Title (was Rockhounds Digest, Vol 3, Issue 27) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040905173815.03947b00@mail.aloha.net> Just a gentle reminder that we've had several messages with the subject "Rockhounds Digest, Vol 3, Issue 27" where it's hard to tell what it's all about. I know it's good to remove unnecessary stuff from previous posts, but when a message gets lost (as often happens), then some of us are left in the dark. (It seems I'm in the dark a lot of the time, but that's normal for me!) I think this message and the earlier one from Kreigh were about rose quartz, but I can't find it in my saved posts under "rose quartz" or "Rockhounds Digest, Vol 3, Issue 27." I'm not really picking nits, just trying to keep track of what's happening! Aloha, Kitty At 11:29 AM 9/5/2004, you wrote: >Just my two cents worth, I'm from WVa, where we have iron >staining on almost everything, not really but sometimes it seems >that way. Iron staining gives a more citrine appearance on our quartz. >This looks as pink as anything I've seen. >Dave > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Sun Sep 5 23:16:32 2004 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Linda Rasmussen) Date: Sun Sep 5 23:15:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Stabilizing Organics References: <004301c493c2$9f4675b0$010aa8c0@gerhard> Message-ID: <005901c493d9$0f20a340$685fe842@litleval> I have used thin " hot Stuff ", it soaks in very well and then a spray of the setting thinner sets it right now, a flat spray of any good clear plastic spray and then when dry a good ole fashioned rubbing with fine steel wool will bring it to its original color with no shine, but one has to be careful if its a leaf. Been there and did that with excellent results. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: Gerhard en Rietha Bindeman To: Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 9:35 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: DEXTRIN HI I USE A MATT FINISH ACRYLIC SPRAY IT LOOKS GREAT AND IF THE ROCK IS BRITTLE I SPRAY ALL ROUND.IT HOLDS EVERY THING TOGETHER PERFECTLY. YEARS AGO I USED SAMSONITE DISOLVED IN THINNERS AND PAINTED IT ON ALSO WORKS WONDERFUL CHEERS GERHARD --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Sep 6 02:12:32 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Sep 6 02:12:15 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dextrin? References: Message-ID: <002701c493f1$a480ea90$1cbffea9@HPAXEL> Any adhesive will cause a slight color change. Maybe the least visible effect may be obtained with a careful spray of.... (drumroll...) .... hairspray. I used that to preserve very fragile stibnite and vivianite XX. It works but acrylic spray is the best. No doubt about that. Cheers Axel (all sticky now) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice de Graaf" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 12:00 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Dextrin? > Hi, > > It really depends on the type of rock. I hear many people complaining about > instability of their carbon fossils. The trick is to collect not the coal > itself. At least here in Europe most coal deposits consists of banks of coal > inbetween black shale like rock. The fossils in that shale are very stable > and require no preparation at all. > Fossils of real coal are a disaster. The coal I collected (Holland, > Ibbenbuhren and Ruhr area) is pretty rich in pyrite. That will inevitably > oxidize and fall apart, making your whole sample instable. Varnishing might > help, but I do not like the unnatural luster of that. > So I personally leave all true coal fossils on the dump and only take the > shale fossils. > > But if anyone has an idea of preparing carbon fossils without yielding an > unnatural luster (or swarms of flies and children :-) ) I'm interested! > > Cheers, > Maurice > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of David Lehker > Sent: 05 September 2004 05:34 > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Dextrin? > > > > > I recently collected several carbon fern fossils and in looking for how > to prepare them found a reference to Dextrin. I did a search and can > find very little on this substance as something to use for fossil > stabilization. Anyone familiar with it or where to get it? > > Any suggestions on basic, inexpensive preparation of carbon based fern > fossils? > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From adara at avalonsong.com Mon Sep 6 06:32:55 2004 From: adara at avalonsong.com (Adara Bryn) Date: Mon Sep 6 06:32:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] stone identification? Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040906092721.01bf2dc8@avalonsong.com> I don't have a picture-- wish I did, as it would probably help--but I'm hoping someone might have some information. Someone on another list that I belong to recently bought a stone from China; the Chinese characters translated literally as "wood fish stone". The Japanese (she lives in Tokyo) read it as "mokugyou". Does this ring any bells with anyone-- if so, is there an English name for the stone? Best, Adara The sky and its stars make music in you. ? Denderah Temple wall inscription, Egypt From y.dain at tiscali.fr Mon Sep 6 07:56:18 2004 From: y.dain at tiscali.fr (Y Dain) Date: Mon Sep 6 07:56:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] stone identification? References: <6.1.0.6.2.20040906092721.01bf2dc8@avalonsong.com> Message-ID: <003901c49421$ab0d1750$252a24d5@bureau> Wood fish stone seems to be a metamorphic sandstone I found this on internet : " The Ecological Environment Characteristics of Longevity Villages in Changqing County, Shandong Province by LI Ri??bang, TIAN Jian??an, WANG Wu??yi, YANG Lin??sheng, and HE Yang The ecological environment of longevity villages was investigated in Zhangxia to wn, Changqing county, Shandong province. The samples of eco??environmental mater ials, including from rock to soil, drinking water, grain, vegetables and hair ha ve be en collected, and determined their life elements concentration. The comparitive study on life elements content in eco??environmental materials in longevity vill ages with that in control villages was made in order to explore the relation bet ween environment factors and longevity. The result was shown that there are obvi ous environmental characteristics in longevity villages of Zhangxia town: (1) Th e natural environment is good and the human environment is propitious in these v illages. The weather is warm and it is very suitable for human being living. The hill is green and the water is clean in stream. The air is fresh, because th ere are few pollutants in sky. The prevailing custom is good in the villages, pe ople have respect for old persons and love for young. They all live happy; (2) T he d rinking water is got from springs with good quality. The concentration of H??2Si O??3 in the spring is high. Si can prevent heart diseases for the elder persons, and protects their health; (3) Se content is high in most materials of environm ental eco??system in longevity villages. Se is the component of GSH-px. GSH-px c an eliminate peroxide in body which can harm the normal structure of cell, so th at GSH-px can protect the normal physiological function of cell. The result is t hat the decrepit process of human body is delayed; (4) There are rich minerals in wood-fish stone (a metamorphic sandstone) in longevity villages. It is used f or making various tea utensils. There are various life elements in wood-fish sto ne. The essential life elements will be dissolved into tea water slowly and slow ly when making tea by that tea utensil. So that it increase the intake of life e lements in human body. Among those life element, Se, Zn and Li have the function of preventing heart diseases and against decrepit. " the site : http://www.progressingeography.com/english/abstract/ecology.shtml regards From adara at avalonsong.com Mon Sep 6 08:00:09 2004 From: adara at avalonsong.com (Adara Bryn) Date: Mon Sep 6 08:00:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] stone identification? In-Reply-To: <003901c49421$ab0d1750$252a24d5@bureau> References: <6.1.0.6.2.20040906092721.01bf2dc8@avalonsong.com> <003901c49421$ab0d1750$252a24d5@bureau> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040906105936.01bb7f78@avalonsong.com> At 10:56 AM 9/6/2004, you wrote: >Wood fish stone seems to be a metamorphic sandstone Many thanks to you for searching that information out!! I will pass it along. Best, Adara The sky and its stars make music in you. ? Denderah Temple wall inscription, Egypt From john.f.alcorn at gte.net Mon Sep 6 08:02:30 2004 From: john.f.alcorn at gte.net (John Alcorn) Date: Mon Sep 6 08:04:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dextrin? References: <002701c493f1$a480ea90$1cbffea9@HPAXEL> Message-ID: <002301c49422$88c9c520$10cf0304@ROSENANTE> A good idea Axel. Hairspray was all that was used by Jon Kramer, et al. to preserve the white fossil ferns on black slate that they collected and sold. They were around in the 1980's. The spray was quite light and invisible then, and still is now 20 years later. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 2:12 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Dextrin? > Any adhesive will cause a slight color change. > Maybe the least visible effect may be obtained with a careful spray of.... > (drumroll...) .... hairspray. > I used that to preserve very fragile stibnite and vivianite XX. > > It works but acrylic spray is the best. No doubt about that. > > Cheers > > Axel (all sticky now) > From kahako at aloha.net Mon Sep 6 10:24:10 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Sep 6 09:56:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dextrin? In-Reply-To: <002301c49422$88c9c520$10cf0304@ROSENANTE> References: <002701c493f1$a480ea90$1cbffea9@HPAXEL> <002301c49422$88c9c520$10cf0304@ROSENANTE> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040906071727.02eda050@mail.aloha.net> As an artist, I have used hair spray instead of artist's workable fixatif on charcoal and pastel drawings for over 40 years. It's much less expensive and easily available without going to an art supply store or catalogue. It also does not change the color of the art work and dries in about three seconds. Aloha, Kitty At 05:02 AM 9/6/2004, you wrote: >A good idea Axel. >Hairspray was all that was used by Jon Kramer, et al. to preserve the white >fossil ferns on black slate that they collected and sold. They were around >in the 1980's. The spray was quite light and invisible then, and still is >now 20 years later. >John From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Sep 6 11:30:45 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Sep 6 11:30:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dextrin? References: <002701c493f1$a480ea90$1cbffea9@HPAXEL><002301c49422$88c9c520$10cf0304@ROSENANTE> <6.1.2.0.0.20040906071727.02eda050@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <002001c4943f$a05322f0$1cbffea9@HPAXEL> AND it will keep your hair in place ;-))) BTW, so will acrylic spray and other products but you don't brush them out that easily (LOL) Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 7:24 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Dextrin? > As an artist, I have used hair spray instead of artist's workable fixatif > on charcoal and pastel drawings for over 40 years. It's much less > expensive and easily available without going to an art supply store or > catalogue. It also does not change the color of the art work and dries in > about three seconds. > > Aloha, Kitty > > > > At 05:02 AM 9/6/2004, you wrote: > >A good idea Axel. > >Hairspray was all that was used by Jon Kramer, et al. to preserve the white > >fossil ferns on black slate that they collected and sold. They were around > >in the 1980's. The spray was quite light and invisible then, and still is > >now 20 years later. > >John > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From alliesgarnets at aptalaska.net Mon Sep 6 14:06:37 2004 From: alliesgarnets at aptalaska.net (alliesgarnets) Date: Tue Sep 7 07:48:06 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Alaskan almandine Message-ID: <000601c49455$6ca68580$6700a8c0@Isabella> Hi Margaret, I came across your posting while reading up on Wrangell garnets. I/we like to look up Wrangell garnet info on the web occasionally to see the articles. My daughter Allie has been a garnet seller for several years. We have have quite a bit of stock left from her summer season. If you are interested, let me know. I can send you digi-pics of some singles or imbedded garnets. Allie is started her freshman year of Highschool last week. She's asked me to help her out as she is now busy w/ school and sports. Ruby McMurren for ("Allie's Garnets") Wrangell, Alaska --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kadok at infowest.com Tue Sep 7 08:56:04 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Tue Sep 7 08:56:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Alaskan almandine In-Reply-To: <000601c49455$6ca68580$6700a8c0@Isabella> Message-ID: <20040907155605.7E834EA9F9A@delivery.infowest.com> Thanks, Ruby. But I have all I want at present. (I prefer to collect my own minerals, when possible.) Margaret >Hi Margaret, >I came across your posting while reading up on Wrangell garnets. I/we like to look up Wrangell garnet info on the web occasionally to see the articles. My daughter Allie has been a garnet seller for several years. We have have quite a bit of stock left from her summer season. If you are interested, let me know. I can send you digi-pics of some singles or imbedded garnets. Allie is started her freshman year of Highschool last week. She's asked me to help her out as she is now busy w/ school and sports. Ruby McMurren for ("Allie's Garnets") Wrangell, Alaska --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Tue Sep 7 16:39:51 2004 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Tue Sep 7 16:41:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Alaskan almandine References: <000601c49455$6ca68580$6700a8c0@Isabella> Message-ID: <002e01c49533$f8ef0060$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "alliesgarnets" To: Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 4:06 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Alaskan almandine Hi Margaret, I came across your posting while reading up on Wrangell garnets. I/we like to look up Wrangell garnet info on the web occasionally to see the articles. My daughter Allie has been a garnet seller for several years. We have have quite a bit of stock left from her summer season. If you are interested, let me know. I can send you digi-pics of some singles or imbedded garnets. Allie is started her freshman year of Highschool last week. She's asked me to help her out as she is now busy w/ school and sports. Ruby McMurren for ("Allie's Garnets") Wrangell, Alaska --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Sep 7 14:52:00 2004 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Tue Sep 7 16:53:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Changing Subject/Topic Title (was Rockhounds Digest, Vol 3, Issue 27) References: <6.1.2.0.0.20040905173815.03947b00@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <003e01c49524$ed173960$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Thanks for the heads up Kitty. I (and I assume many of us) get postings in email as they come in and don't have a clue what Digest they might be. Hope you're well - John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" > Just a gentle reminder that we've had several messages with the subject > "Rockhounds Digest, Vol 3, Issue 27" where it's hard to tell what it's all > about. From Docia1154 at aol.com Tue Sep 7 17:12:43 2004 From: Docia1154 at aol.com (Docia1154@aol.com) Date: Tue Sep 7 17:12:52 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] searching for flourscent minerals Message-ID: <7e.57d896be.2e6fa87b@aol.com> I have learned of a mine dump near here that if I go with a black light they tell me it will be great fun with some neat finds. I plan to go a little later in the year when the worry of snakes is lessened. Any references for a portable black light? suggestions? Thanks, Docia --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Tue Sep 7 17:42:30 2004 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Tue Sep 7 17:42:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] searching for flourscent minerals Message-ID: <74.4143445f.2e6faf76@aol.com> Docia: There are several portable units out there and much depends on how often you plan on using it, how serious you are, and what you want to spend. I prefer the "Way Too Cool" 3-way unit. While not the most powerful available, it gives you a combination LW/MW/SW unit at 9 watts per lamp. Since mineral fluorescence may be restricted to one of these wavelengths, you minimize your chances of missing something with this combo. The lamp costs about $350 plus shipping and runs off any 12 volt system (a lawn mower battery for instance). If you want a lamp primarily for indoor use, then perhaps a 120 v unit using a lead acid battery and inverter is for you. If you are just tinkering, there are some small, low powered lamps that operate off AA batteries for about $50. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Lapadary at aol.com Tue Sep 7 18:48:41 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Tue Sep 7 18:48:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] searching for flourscent minerals Message-ID: In a message dated 9/7/04 5:13:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Docia1154@aol.com writes: I have learned of a mine dump near here that if I go with a black light they tell me it will be great fun with some neat finds. I plan to go a little later in the year when the worry of snakes is lessened. Any references for a portable black light? suggestions? Dorcia, You didn't say where you live but keep in mind that scorpions also look great under black light. I think anybody who lives near snakes and wants to avoid them might want to watch out for those colorful arachnids too. I think scorpions are arachnds but I never counted their legs. If they have more or less than 8 let me know. :-]) They are under a lot of the rocks I roll over. GRANT --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kqhayes at chartermi.net Tue Sep 7 20:02:26 2004 From: kqhayes at chartermi.net (Keith Q Hayes) Date: Tue Sep 7 20:04:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] searching for flourscent minerals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here's some scorpion info with picture of scorpion fluorescing. http://www.desertusa.com/oct96/du_scorpion.html Best Regards, Keith Hayes www.kqminerals.com kqhayes@chartermi.net 3705 Fuller Drive Midland, MI 48642 -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Lapadary@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 9:49 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] searching for flourscent minerals In a message dated 9/7/04 5:13:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Docia1154@aol.com writes: I have learned of a mine dump near here that if I go with a black light they tell me it will be great fun with some neat finds. I plan to go a little later in the year when the worry of snakes is lessened. Any references for a portable black light? suggestions? Dorcia, You didn't say where you live but keep in mind that scorpions also look great under black light. I think anybody who lives near snakes and wants to avoid them might want to watch out for those colorful arachnids too. I think scorpions are arachnds but I never counted their legs. If they have more or less than 8 let me know. :-]) They are under a lot of the rocks I roll over. GRANT --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Docia1154 at aol.com Wed Sep 8 05:35:23 2004 From: Docia1154 at aol.com (Docia1154@aol.com) Date: Wed Sep 8 05:35:33 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] searching for flourscent minerals Message-ID: well for now since this will be our first attempt at this I think we'll go with the inexpensive model - will probably depend on this 1st trip as to how serious we may become with it and if we go more often. If we make some good finds then we may progress up later. We are just amatuer rockhounds who love being out there finding what we can and this sounds like fun. We have collected at this site before and were happy with our finds, so look forward to trying it at night. thanks for the info. Docia In a message dated 9/7/2004 7:43:06 PM Central Daylight Time, FOSSILNUT@aol.com writes: There are several portable units out there and much depends on how often you plan on using it, how serious you are, and what you want to spend. I prefer the "Way Too Cool" 3-way unit. While not the most powerful available, it gives you a combination LW/MW/SW unit at 9 watts per lamp. Since mineral fluorescence may be restricted to one of these wavelengths, you minimize your chances of missing something with this combo. The lamp costs about $350 plus shipping and runs off any 12 volt system (a lawn mower battery for instance). If you want a lamp primarily for indoor use, then perhaps a 120 v unit using a lead acid battery and inverter is for you. If you are just tinkering, there are some small, low powered lamps that operate off AA batteries for about $50. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Docia1154 at aol.com Wed Sep 8 05:38:15 2004 From: Docia1154 at aol.com (Docia1154@aol.com) Date: Wed Sep 8 05:38:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] searching for flourscent minerals Message-ID: <105.5028908a.2e705737@aol.com> I have a healthy respect for snakes but in general they don't bother me - but walking thru the woods at night I simply prefer to do it when the temperatures are a little cooler so that the chances are minimalized of stumbling across one that I can't see - figure I will have enuf to concentrate on just to not stumble over rocks and roots. There are not a lot of scorpions in this area, during the daylight visit to this mine we turned over a lot of rocks and didn't see any, but it would be cool to see one lighted up. In a message dated 9/7/2004 10:04:37 PM Central Daylight Time, kqhayes@chartermi.net writes: Here's some scorpion info with picture of scorpion fluorescing. http://www.desertusa.com/oct96/du_scorpion.html Best Regards, Keith Hayes www.kqminerals.com kqhayes@chartermi.net 3705 Fuller Drive Midland, MI 48642 -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Lapadary@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 9:49 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] searching for flourscent minerals In a message dated 9/7/04 5:13:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Docia1154@aol.com writes: I have learned of a mine dump near here that if I go with a black light they tell me it will be great fun with some neat finds. I plan to go a little later in the year when the worry of snakes is lessened. Any references for a portable black light? suggestions? Dorcia, You didn't say where you live but keep in mind that scorpions also look great under black light. I think anybody who lives near snakes and wants to avoid them might want to watch out for those colorful arachnids too. I think scorpions are arachnds but I never counted their legs. If they have more or less than 8 let me know. :-]) They are under a lot of the rocks I roll over. GRANT --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Wed Sep 8 14:21:04 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Wed Sep 8 14:21:05 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] searching for fluorscent minerals Message-ID: <090820042121.24085.413F77C00000DB7200005E15216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Docia, I'm sure that for a start, the small, inexpensive battery-powered light will be fine for you--that's what most collectors probably start out with. Be sure to buy the shortwave type, which are a little more expensive, around $30-$50, as opposed to the similar-looking longwave kind that only cost about $25. Most minerals only fluoresce, or fluoresce much brighter, under shortwave UV (with exceptions, of course). With a small, less powerful light, you just have to skootch down closer to look at the rocks, whereas with the big powerful ones, you can stand up and wave them all around to illuminate rocks at a distance. And of course, even with the weaker lamp, you can use it to examine rocks you've collected elsewhere, back home or wherever at your convenience in a nice dark spot and close up. Pete -------------- Original message from Docia1154@aol.com: -------------- > well for now since this will be our first attempt at this I think we'll go > with the inexpensive model - will probably depend on this 1st trip as to how > serious we may become with it and if we go more often. If we make some good > finds then we may progress up later. We are just amatuer rockhounds who love > being out there finding what we can and this sounds like fun. We have collected > at this site before and were happy with our finds, so look forward to trying it > at night. > > thanks for the info. Docia > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at aloha.net Wed Sep 8 15:33:33 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Sep 8 15:06:06 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] searching for fluorscent minerals In-Reply-To: <090820042121.24085.413F77C00000DB7200005E15216028074107059 C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <090820042121.24085.413F77C00000DB7200005E15216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040908121515.05ea7d90@mail.aloha.net> Hi Docia, If you go to http://www.minresco.com/uvlamps/uvp/miniuvpn.htm you'll find the lamps Pete is talking about: Long Wave: $25 (I agree with Pete, this is not a good choice), Short Wave: $41. I actually recommend the one that has both LW and SW for $71. I hate to disagree with an expert like Pete, but if you have any fluorite in your area, it will almost certainly fluoresce brighter on LW, and may not react at all to SW. All these lights use 4 AA batteries and will slip into your pocket (if you don't wear tight jeans)! Aloha, Kitty At 11:21 AM 9/8/2004, you wrote: >Docia, > >I'm sure that for a start, the small, inexpensive battery-powered light >will be fine for you--that's what most collectors probably start out >with. Be sure to buy the shortwave type, which are a little more >expensive, around $30-$50, as opposed to the similar-looking longwave kind >that only cost about $25. Most minerals only fluoresce, or fluoresce much >brighter, under shortwave UV (with exceptions, of course). > >With a small, less powerful light, you just have to skootch down closer >to look at the rocks, whereas with the big powerful ones, you can stand up >and wave them all around to illuminate rocks at a distance. And of >course, even with the weaker lamp, you can use it to examine rocks you've >collected elsewhere, back home or wherever at your convenience in a nice >dark spot and close up. > >Pete From morningstar at att.net Wed Sep 8 15:13:48 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Wed Sep 8 15:12:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] searching for fluorscent minerals In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20040908121515.05ea7d90@mail.aloha.net> References: <090820042121.24085.413F77C00000DB7200005E15216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <6.1.2.0.0.20040908121515.05ea7d90@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <413F841C.80504@att.net> Docia, You didn't say where you are. The more details about the locality, including the name of the old mine if you have it, the more we might be able to tell you what to expect to find there. If someone on this list doesn't know the place, you can ask on the fluorescent minerals Yahoo group. Good luck, Don From jpjunk at mc.net Wed Sep 8 19:25:41 2004 From: jpjunk at mc.net (jjunkroski) Date: Wed Sep 8 19:22:36 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Alaskan almandine In-Reply-To: <000601c49455$6ca68580$6700a8c0@Isabella> Message-ID: If you have any garnets for sale, I would like to look at the pics. Thanks, John on 9/6/04 4:06 PM, alliesgarnets at alliesgarnets@aptalaska.net wrote: > Hi Margaret, > > I came across your posting while reading up on Wrangell garnets. I/we like to > look up Wrangell garnet info on the web occasionally to see the articles. My > daughter Allie has been a garnet seller for several years. We have have quite > a bit of stock left from her summer season. If you are interested, let me > know. I can send you digi-pics of some singles or imbedded garnets. > > Allie is started her freshman year of Highschool last week. She's asked me to > help her out as she is now busy w/ school and sports. > > Ruby McMurren for ("Allie's Garnets") > > Wrangell, Alaska > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Sep 8 19:44:28 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Sep 8 19:44:15 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] searching for fluorscent minerals References: <090820042121.24085.413F77C00000DB7200005E15216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <413FC371.6FBF@Tomaszewski.net> BTW, My youngest daughter recently came home from the 'Dollar Store' with a set of cheap pens that used fluorescent inks in eight colors. It came with a minature LCD flashlight that used three wristwatch batteries and produced SW light as strong as my cheap $35 plug in unit. I went back but they were sold out and wouldn't/couldn't tell me where they came from; the package was from a mfgr in Taiwan I could not find on Google. Someone is making really cheap UV light flashlights using LCDs. If you can find them, grab some (and let us know who is making them). Kreigh pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > Docia, > > I'm sure that for a start, the small, inexpensive battery-powered light will be fine for you--that's what most collectors probably start out with. Be sure to buy the shortwave type, which are a little more expensive, around $30-$50, as opposed to the similar-looking longwave kind that only cost about $25. Most minerals only fluoresce, or fluoresce much brighter, under shortwave UV (with exceptions, of course). > > With a small, less powerful light, you just have to skootch down closer to look at the rocks, whereas with the big powerful ones, you can stand up and wave them all around to illuminate rocks at a distance. And of course, even with the weaker lamp, you can use it to examine rocks you've collected elsewhere, back home or wherever at your convenience in a nice dark spot and close up. > > Pete > > -------------- Original message from Docia1154@aol.com: -------------- > > > well for now since this will be our first attempt at this I think we'll go > > with the inexpensive model - will probably depend on this 1st trip as to how > > serious we may become with it and if we go more often. If we make some good > > finds then we may progress up later. We are just amatuer rockhounds who love > > being out there finding what we can and this sounds like fun. We have collected > > at this site before and were happy with our finds, so look forward to trying it > > at night. > > > > thanks for the info. Docia > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Lapadary at aol.com Wed Sep 8 20:26:43 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Wed Sep 8 20:26:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] searching for fluorscent minerals Message-ID: <82.1565ce4a.2e712773@aol.com> In a message dated 9/8/04 7:44:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: It came with a minature LCD flashlight that used three wristwatch batteries and produced SW light as strong as my cheap $35 plug in unit. I went back but they were sold out and wouldn't/couldn't tell me where they came from; the package was from a mfgr in Taiwan I could not find on Google. Someone is making really cheap UV light flashlights using LCDs. If you can find them, grab some (and let us know who is making them). You might check out this site http://www.epartyunlimited.com/invisiblepen.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at aloha.net Wed Sep 8 23:11:18 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Sep 8 22:43:52 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] SW dangers (was) searching for fluorescent minerals In-Reply-To: <413FC371.6FBF@Tomaszewski.net> References: <090820042121.24085.413F77C00000DB7200005E15216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <413FC371.6FBF@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040908181514.03b4ac30@mail.aloha.net> A flashlight that produces SW would be dangerous to flash around in someone's eyes! Perhaps if it is LCD it would not be dangerous---what do you experts think? Pete, Don, Earl, Axel? Bill (my resident physicist husband) says he can imagine making SW with LED, but can't right now think how it could be done with LCD. In any case, the thought of people---especially kids---being able to point a short wave light around into other people's eyes, or into their own, is a terrifying thought! Docia, I assume that if you get a SW UV lamp you will read the warnings if you are not already aware of them. I have occasionally glanced ever so briefly into SW lamps even as a child, and suffered no harm. But my sister-in-law had cataract surgery, and apparently it left her eyes very susceptible to UV light. She got a very brief accidental glance into our hand-held SW lamp from a distance of about 7 or 8 meters and later suffered pain and watering from her eyes. She went to a doctor who said her eyes showed signs of severe sunburn, and she went though a lot of treatment, eye drops, etc. So BE CAREFUL with SW light! Aloha, Kitty At 04:44 PM 9/8/2004, you wrote: >BTW, My youngest daughter recently came home from the 'Dollar Store' >with a set of cheap pens that used fluorescent inks in eight colors. It >came with a minature LCD flashlight that used three wristwatch batteries >and produced SW light as strong as my cheap $35 plug in unit. I went >back but they were sold out and wouldn't/couldn't tell me where they >came from; the package was from a mfgr in Taiwan I could not find on >Google. Someone is making really cheap UV light flashlights using LCDs. >If you can find them, grab some (and let us know who is making them). > >Kreigh From morningstar at att.net Thu Sep 9 04:57:05 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Thu Sep 9 04:57:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] SW dangers (was) searching for fluorescent minerals Message-ID: <090920041157.5463.41404510000E1CFA0000155721603762239D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> > A flashlight that produces SW would be dangerous to flash around in > someone's eyes! Hi Kitty, et al., With all due respect and acknowledgement to Kreigh's long-standing, accurate, informative, and friendly posts over the years, I must respectfully question this one. It is true that in the most recent years, prices of LW LEDs have come down to the point where they can be made into cheap toys. By the way, the only LW LEDs I have seen have a fairly broad emission and a lot of visible light, thus they still require a LW filter for optimum viewing. Now, as far as SW LEDs, I have heard that "a Japanese company is close to developing them," and if someone has, I am not aware and neither are any of my associates who follow such things. If there is such a product, it would be an exellent find! In the spirit of avoiding the misinterpretation that can occur when people read e-mail, I would like to stipulate I am not being sarcastic or contrary, I really want to know if this could be true! Kreigh, are you sure it is SW? If you are sure, could I have you send me one (of course I'll pay)? Don Newsome of UV Systems has a spectrophotometer, an instrument that will measure the wavelength and relative intensity of the output in a graph so that you can see whether it is SW, MW, LW (of course these are somewhat arbitrary definitions), and whether the emission is a narrrow peak or a broad distribution, etc. As Kitty mentions, at least Pete, Axel, Earl and I would love to see this! Kitty, in any case, you are correct that people shouldn't look at SW or even MW (i.e., tanning booth lamps) light. I have burned my eyes twice, once by my carelesseness and once by someone else's. I'm not certain how much output a SW LED would have in terms of microwatts per square centimeter (which is one standard by which we typically measure radiant output power), but even if it is small, that energy is not doing anyone's eyes any good. Don H From Docia1154 at aol.com Thu Sep 9 05:55:01 2004 From: Docia1154 at aol.com (Docia1154@aol.com) Date: Thu Sep 9 05:55:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] searching for fluorscent minerals Message-ID: cool, that sounds like just the information I need. Didn't know about shortwave so I will make sure that is what we get. Thanks, Docia In a message dated 9/8/2004 4:21:29 PM Central Daylight Time, pjmodreski@att.net writes: I'm sure that for a start, the small, inexpensive battery-powered light will be fine for you--that's what most collectors probably start out with. Be sure to buy the shortwave type, which are a little more expensive, around $30-$50, as opposed to the similar-looking longwave kind that only cost about $25. Most minerals only fluoresce, or fluoresce much brighter, under shortwave UV (with exceptions, of course). With a small, less powerful light, you just have to skootch down closer to look at the rocks, whereas with the big powerful ones, you can stand up and wave them all around to illuminate rocks at a distance. And of course, even with the weaker lamp, you can use it to examine rocks you've collected elsewhere, back home or wherever at your convenience in a nice dark spot and close up. Pete --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Docia1154 at aol.com Thu Sep 9 06:02:35 2004 From: Docia1154 at aol.com (Docia1154@aol.com) Date: Thu Sep 9 06:02:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] searching for fluorscent minerals Message-ID: <1cd.2a80bcb6.2e71ae6b@aol.com> Thanks Kitty, we definitely have some flourite at this site - just thin layers of it but it will be cool to have it light up too. Sounds like the one with both wavelengths will be a good one to have. tight jeans are too much of a hassle for climbing around rocks and tree roots etc. I'm too old to care what others think of how I look and very much more prefer comfort. Well I'm heading to that site next to order this. THanks again to all for your help. Docia In a message dated 9/8/2004 5:06:30 PM Central Daylight Time, kahako@aloha.net writes: Hi Docia, If you go to http://www.minresco.com/uvlamps/uvp/miniuvpn.htm you'll find the lamps Pete is talking about: Long Wave: $25 (I agree with Pete, this is not a good choice), Short Wave: $41. I actually recommend the one that has both LW and SW for $71. I hate to disagree with an expert like Pete, but if you have any fluorite in your area, it will almost certainly fluoresce brighter on LW, and may not react at all to SW. All these lights use 4 AA batteries and will slip into your pocket (if you don't wear tight jeans)! Aloha, Kitty --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Sep 9 06:18:18 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Sep 9 06:17:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] searching for fluorscent minerals References: <090820042121.24085.413F77C00000DB7200005E15216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <413FC371.6FBF@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <004801c4966f$79446c00$1cbffea9@HPAXEL> Hi Kreigh, I would be shocked to the marrow if SW-LED's were used in stuff like that... are you sure? Try it with scheelite perhaps. That will fluoresce blue at 312 nm or less but not at 350 or higher (not blue anyway). Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 4:44 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] searching for fluorscent minerals > BTW, My youngest daughter recently came home from the 'Dollar Store' > with a set of cheap pens that used fluorescent inks in eight colors. It > came with a minature LCD flashlight that used three wristwatch batteries > and produced SW light as strong as my cheap $35 plug in unit. I went > back but they were sold out and wouldn't/couldn't tell me where they > came from; the package was from a mfgr in Taiwan I could not find on > Google. Someone is making really cheap UV light flashlights using LCDs. > If you can find them, grab some (and let us know who is making them). > > Kreigh > > > > > pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > > > Docia, > > > > I'm sure that for a start, the small, inexpensive battery-powered light will be fine for you--that's what most collectors probably start out with. Be sure to buy the shortwave type, which are a little more expensive, around $30-$50, as opposed to the similar-looking longwave kind that only cost about $25. Most minerals only fluoresce, or fluoresce much brighter, under shortwave UV (with exceptions, of course). > > > > With a small, less powerful light, you just have to skootch down closer to look at the rocks, whereas with the big powerful ones, you can stand up and wave them all around to illuminate rocks at a distance. And of course, even with the weaker lamp, you can use it to examine rocks you've collected elsewhere, back home or wherever at your convenience in a nice dark spot and close up. > > > > Pete > > > > -------------- Original message from Docia1154@aol.com: -------------- > > > > > well for now since this will be our first attempt at this I think we'll go > > > with the inexpensive model - will probably depend on this 1st trip as to how > > > serious we may become with it and if we go more often. If we make some good > > > finds then we may progress up later. We are just amatuer rockhounds who love > > > being out there finding what we can and this sounds like fun. We have collected > > > at this site before and were happy with our finds, so look forward to trying it > > > at night. > > > > > > thanks for the info. Docia > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From Docia1154 at aol.com Thu Sep 9 06:18:47 2004 From: Docia1154 at aol.com (Docia1154@aol.com) Date: Thu Sep 9 06:18:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] searching for fluorscent minerals Message-ID: <1a3.29557b1b.2e71b237@aol.com> I'm in south/central Missouri (just south of Rolla - which is halfway between St. Louis and Springfield. The mine is the old Silver Mine over near Fredericktown. As I said a geologist I know who works for the Doe Run mining company is who told me about using the black light there, that he has made some good finds. Docia In a message dated 9/8/2004 5:13:01 PM Central Daylight Time, morningstar@att.net writes: Docia, You didn't say where you are. The more details about the locality, including the name of the old mine if you have it, the more we might be able to tell you what to expect to find there. If someone on this list doesn't know the place, you can ask on the fluorescent minerals Yahoo group. Good luck, Don --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Docia1154 at aol.com Thu Sep 9 06:26:55 2004 From: Docia1154 at aol.com (Docia1154@aol.com) Date: Thu Sep 9 06:27:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] SW dangers (was) searching for fluorescent minerals Message-ID: In a message dated 9/9/2004 12:44:28 AM Central Daylight Time, kahako@aloha.net writes: Docia, I assume that if you get a SW UV lamp you will read the warnings if you are not already aware of them. I have occasionally glanced ever so briefly into SW lamps even as a child, and suffered no harm. But my sister-in-law had cataract surgery, and apparently it left her eyes very susceptible to UV light. She got a very brief accidental glance into our hand-held SW lamp from a distance of about 7 or 8 meters and later suffered pain and watering from her eyes. She went to a doctor who said her eyes showed signs of severe sunburn, and she went though a lot of treatment, eye drops, etc. So BE CAREFUL with SW light! Aloha, Kitty I saw on the website that they have protective glasses so I'm ordering those also. I will definitely be extremely careful. Thanks --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Sep 9 06:56:03 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Sep 9 06:55:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] SW dangers (was) searching for fluorescent minerals References: <090920041157.5463.41404510000E1CFA0000155721603762239D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: <005301c49674$bf9062e0$1cbffea9@HPAXEL> Hello Kitty, > at least Pete, Axel, > Earl and I would love to see this! Understatement of the year: I'm sure Don really means that we would sacrifice various important bodyparts for the privilege of having one and lesser parts for a glance at one.... ;-))) As far as the danger is concerned: A fairly bright white light LED would produce about 5000 mC (milliCandela). An UV-led (around 380 nm, let's be kind and accept that as UV ;-))) would typically produce a few hundred mC. Even if it was a SW-LED, you would have to look into it from a short distance and for some time. But still, ad this goes for ALL potentially damaging radiation: better safe than sorry... A strong SW-lamp will cause you eyes to feel like you have sand in hem even after a few seconds and prolonged exposure will result in extremely painful eyes and Niagara's of tears on both sides of your nose. I even had several Niagarisms as a result of reflected SW. Some minerals are good reflectors of SW-UV, in fac dolomite will reflect about 80% of the 254.6 nm UV that falls on it. Any SW or MW display should be behind glass or you should ware safety goggles (normal spectacles/glasses/monocles don't offer full protection). Even more important since I hung one of Don Newsome's TripleBright SW's in my display... However, I never heard of lasting damage. It seems that the eyes easily recover and that the pain keeps people from repeating their mistakes. Cheers Axel From gbryl95 at rollanet.org Thu Sep 9 08:34:36 2004 From: gbryl95 at rollanet.org (Ray Prater, Jr.) Date: Thu Sep 9 08:34:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] LED UV light References: <090820042121.24085.413F77C00000DB7200005E15216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <413FC371.6FBF@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <002401c49682$84f85a80$085ce5d8@dell> I went looking on the net for these a few weeks ago. They come in all sizes from keychains with one LED to 3 D-cell flashlights with the regular bulb replaced with an array of 32 LED's. All of the ones I saw were 375 nm (the cheap ones) or 350 nm. They are used in air conditioning repair to see the fluorescent dye that is put in to find leaks. None of the sites I looked at had any shortwave models. Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: Kreigh Tomaszewski To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] searching for fluorscent minerals BTW, My youngest daughter recently came home from the 'Dollar Store' with a set of cheap pens that used fluorescent inks in eight colors. It came with a minature LCD flashlight that used three wristwatch batteries and produced SW light as strong as my cheap $35 plug in unit. I went back but they were sold out and wouldn't/couldn't tell me where they came from; the package was from a mfgr in Taiwan I could not find on Google. Someone is making really cheap UV light flashlights using LCDs. If you can find them, grab some (and let us know who is making them). From jonee at epix.net Thu Sep 9 09:55:59 2004 From: jonee at epix.net (E. L. Jones) Date: Thu Sep 9 09:56:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Jewelry finding question In-Reply-To: <12b.4abf9fea.2e6a5fec@aol.com> References: <12b.4abf9fea.2e6a5fec@aol.com> Message-ID: <41408B1F.5040304@epix.net> IF yuou don't care about metal content being silver you can go to AC Mooores, JoAnn's Fabrics, or Michaels..any of the craft supply houses and they have split rings and jump rings. A "split" ring is like you have on your key ring and is the strongest non soldered repair. Handling them takes a bit of getting used to down at the size you need. Jeweler's sized beading /needle nose pliers plus a sharp knife tip are some of what you'll need. Fortunately they also sell a set of 5 or 6 different ones at the same place. The other alternative is a "jump" ring which is an oval section of wire bent back on itself to for a link. YOu spread these links by putting a plier nose inside and spread them, Thread the tow sections indise and press the ring closed. IF you choose to use a silver jump ring, the metal is very soft and you'll tends to spread open again if you don't have it soldered. There are some braided thread repairs but too hard to explain in an email. Hope this helps, Elton Hammerron@aol.com wrote: >Hi: > >Passing this question on to a few friends that I have in the rockhounding >field. I have a small bracelet that I was asked to see if I can fix. A picture >of it is located at http://hammerron.com/temp090304.jpg I believe it is >sterling silver, and I'm just looking for a fairly 'thick' connecting link (one that >won't easily break with normal wear) that would be appropriate for this >piece. I know that there are many dealers that may carry such a piece, but most are >looking for a sizable minimum order. I am hoping to fix it for just a small >amount of money. > >Could you direct me to a possible source for this? > >-Ron > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From tim at orerockon.com Thu Sep 9 10:26:21 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Sep 9 10:26:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] SW dangers (was) searching for fluorescent minerals In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20040908181514.03b4ac30@mail.aloha.net> References: <090820042121.24085.413F77C00000DB7200005E15216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <413FC371.6FBF@Tomaszewski.net> <6.1.2.0.0.20040908181514.03b4ac30@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.2.20040909101108.0250dd30@mail.spiritone.com> As I am sure everyone has figured out, it is a "blacklight" flashlight, i.e. LW, not SW. They are extremely popular and all over the net and at local stores. I saw one at the $3 store here a few weeks ago. http://www.epartyunlimited.com/uvflashlight.html appears to be 370nM Here is a website reviewing UV LEDs http://ledmuseum.home.att.net/leduv.htm They are ALL in the 360-395 nM range - not even close to SW which is defined as 254 nM. Here is the SW LED http://optics.org/articles/news/9/11/14/1 Google, people! At 11:11 PM 9/8/2004, you wrote: >A flashlight that produces SW would be dangerous to flash around in >someone's eyes! Perhaps if it is LCD it would not be dangerous---what do >you experts think? Pete, Don, Earl, Axel? Bill (my resident physicist >husband) says he can imagine making SW with LED, but can't right now think >how it could be done with LCD. In any case, the thought of >people---especially kids---being able to point a short wave light around >into other people's eyes, or into their own, is a terrifying thought! > >Docia, I assume that if you get a SW UV lamp you will read the warnings if >you are not already aware of them. I have occasionally glanced ever so >briefly into SW lamps even as a child, and suffered no harm. But my >sister-in-law had cataract surgery, and apparently it left her eyes very >susceptible to UV light. She got a very brief accidental glance into our >hand-held SW lamp from a distance of about 7 or 8 meters and later >suffered pain and watering from her eyes. She went to a doctor who said >her eyes showed signs of severe sunburn, and she went though a lot of >treatment, eye drops, etc. So BE CAREFUL with SW light! > >Aloha, Kitty > > > > >At 04:44 PM 9/8/2004, you wrote: >>BTW, My youngest daughter recently came home from the 'Dollar Store' >>with a set of cheap pens that used fluorescent inks in eight colors. It >>came with a minature LCD flashlight that used three wristwatch batteries >>and produced SW light as strong as my cheap $35 plug in unit. I went >>back but they were sold out and wouldn't/couldn't tell me where they >>came from; the package was from a mfgr in Taiwan I could not find on >>Google. Someone is making really cheap UV light flashlights using LCDs. >>If you can find them, grab some (and let us know who is making them). >> >>Kreigh Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From kadok at infowest.com Thu Sep 9 10:36:39 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Thu Sep 9 10:36:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Alaskan almandine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040909173636.31B1CEAB018@delivery.infowest.com> I think you sent this to the wrong address; you want the alliesgarnets one below. They are the ones selling garnets. Margaret If you have any garnets for sale, I would like to look at the pics. Thanks, John on 9/6/04 4:06 PM, alliesgarnets at alliesgarnets@aptalaska.net wrote: > Hi Margaret, > > I came across your posting while reading up on Wrangell garnets. I/we like to > look up Wrangell garnet info on the web occasionally to see the articles. My > daughter Allie has been a garnet seller for several years. We have have quite > a bit of stock left from her summer season. If you are interested, let me > know. I can send you digi-pics of some singles or imbedded garnets. > > Allie is started her freshman year of Highschool last week. She's asked me to > help her out as she is now busy w/ school and sports. > > Ruby McMurren for ("Allie's Garnets") > > Wrangell, Alaska > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jonee at epix.net Thu Sep 9 10:56:33 2004 From: jonee at epix.net (E. L. Jones) Date: Thu Sep 9 10:56:36 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Herkimer Diamonds was Introduction In-Reply-To: <1093224058.2743.34.camel@localhost> References: <1093189753.4128c07954296@student.up.ac.za> <1093224058.2743.34.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <41409951.3000508@epix.net> Herkimer Diamonds are, as most folks should know, a very pristine rock quartz not a true diamond. I say that as I run into people who are "adamant" that Herkimer's are diamond/adamantine. They occasionally but rarely have an inclusions of water or petroleum Herkimers are largely waterclear, doubly terminated, floaters owing to precipititation of silica out of the water by bacteria. This progressed at a rate with just enough disolution of the limestone cavity/vug to prevent attachment of the crystal to the substrate. As John suggested this is a rare combination of growth conditions Elton john wrote: >On Sun, 2004-08-22 at 10:49, Johan Lubbe wrote: > > >>Greetings from South Africa folks! >> >> > <>What is so special about Herkimer Diamonds? Except that they are double > terminated and absolutely water clear quartz crystals. Is it their > crystal structure that makes them unique or the location? > > Regards > Johan > > >Well, the "double terminated and absolutely water clear quartz" has >something to do with it, not to mention twinning and inclusions, etc. >But the vuggy rock in which they are found has no other form of quartz >in it;how many other places are there like that? > >john > > From Lapadary at aol.com Thu Sep 9 12:19:59 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Thu Sep 9 12:20:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] SW dangers (was) searching for fluorescent minerals Message-ID: In a message dated 9/9/04 6:55:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, axel.emmermann@pandora.be writes: Even if it was a SW-LED, you would have to look into it from a short distance and for some time. But still, ad this goes for ALL potentially damaging radiation: better safe than sorry... A strong SW-lamp will cause you eyes to feel like you have sand in hem even after a few seconds and prolonged exposure will result in extremely painful eyes and Niagara's of tears on both sides of your nose. That sounds like what arc welders call 'flash burns.' Don't ask me how I know what that feels like. Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Sep 9 13:17:40 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Sep 9 13:17:20 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] SW dangers (was) searching for fluorescent minerals References: Message-ID: <003e01c496aa$10cb6b70$1cbffea9@HPAXEL> > That sounds like what arc welders call 'flash burns.' Don't ask me how I know > what that feels like. > > Grant Well, that's exactly what it is, Grant. "Welding eyes" as we call it in Flemish. BTW, if I recall it right, the fluorescence of the Franklin minerals calcite and willemite was first discovered by arc welders. The arc has the spectrum of iron in it, which has a lot of UV between 200 and 350 nm. Iron salts are actually used to make "hard-core" UV-lamps for curing inks and glues. In those days there were no UV-transparent filters to block the visible light but still... Arc-welding at night on the Trotter dump or in the Rainbow room should produce some interesting color effects ;-))) Cheers Axel > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Thu Sep 9 15:27:18 2004 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Thu Sep 9 15:29:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] searching for fluorscent minerals References: <090820042121.24085.413F77C00000DB7200005E15216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <002b01c496bc$2b9639a0$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> Docia, I recently bought one of the little ones that has both short and long wave. Although it is kinda weak, it is way cool to see some things flouresce differently in each spectrum. Mine uses 2 AA batteries. We also have a big AC "black light" at home that works good on most stuff. BTW you mentioned snakes, and We recently saw a GREEN rattlesnake. No mistake. His light green color blended almost perfectly with the rocks and vegetation at the I-70 road cut outside Denver that has great info posted along a trail about the various colored layers exposed in the cut.... Mr. Rattler did not take well at all to me & my video camera and put on a great show to warn me! Of course I ran out of tape right then. But my daughter got at least one good still picture. Glenn From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Sep 9 18:17:24 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Sep 9 18:17:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] SW dangers (was) searching for fluorescent minerals References: <090920041157.5463.41404510000E1CFA0000155721603762239D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: <41410099.5265@Tomaszewski.net> I was not sure if it was SW or LW, so before making the post I tried to find the light in my daughter's messy room to check. I didn't actually find the light, but I found some of the pens. The pens write with an 'invisible' ink that the light brings out in different colors. I made a couple scribbles on a sheet of paper and exposed it under my black light, and the colors were MUCH brighter under SW than under LW, hence my conclusion it was SW. But I must not have had my brain in gear because you are right, no sane manufacturer would be putting SW flashlights into kids hands because of the risks. Having personal experience with the intense pain of eyeball sunburn from hard UV (from a carbon arc) I should have known better. It must be a LW light. I asked my daughter if I could borrow the flashlight and she said she dropped it and it stopped working (again -- I've put it back together twice already), and as soon as she found it (its somewhere in her room that we discussed needed cleaning again) she would give it to me for repair and testing. BTW, It does appear that SW LEDs are on the horizon commercially. PhysOrg.com has reported that Colossal Storage Corporation has invented and patented the technology for non-contact UV photon induced electric field poling of ferroelectric non-linear photonic bandgap crystals for manipulating 1 nm to 400nm UV. Coupled with the emerging 3D Holographic Optical Storage technology, the company's President, Michael E. Thomas, presented his roadmap towards practical 100 terabyte DVDs to the National Science Foundation in February 2004. Sony and IBM are reported to have competing approaches in their labs; the key problem appears to be reliable, manufacturable, SW LEDs (or shrinking the current SW laser technology). Kreigh morningstar@att.net wrote: > > > A flashlight that produces SW would be dangerous to flash around in > > someone's eyes! > > Hi Kitty, et al., > > With all due respect and acknowledgement to Kreigh's long-standing, accurate, informative, and friendly > posts over the years, I must respectfully question this one. It is true that in the most recent years, prices > of LW LEDs have come down to the point where they can be made into cheap toys. By the way, the only LW LEDs > I have seen have a fairly broad emission and a lot of visible light, thus they still require a LW filter for optimum > viewing. Now, as far as SW LEDs, I have heard that "a Japanese company is close to developing them," and if someone has, > I am not aware and neither are any of my associates who follow such things. If there is such a product, it would be an exellent > find! > > In the spirit of avoiding the misinterpretation that can occur when people read e-mail, I would like to stipulate I am > not being sarcastic or contrary, I really want to know if this could be true! Kreigh, are you sure it is SW? If you are sure, could > I have you send me one (of course I'll pay)? Don Newsome of UV Systems has a spectrophotometer, an instrument that will measure the > wavelength and relative intensity of the output in a graph so that you can see whether it is SW, MW, LW (of course these are somewhat > arbitrary definitions), and whether the emission is a narrrow peak or a broad distribution, etc. As Kitty mentions, at least Pete, Axel, > Earl and I would love to see this! > > Kitty, in any case, you are correct that people shouldn't look at SW or even MW (i.e., tanning booth lamps) light. I have burned my eyes twice, > once by my carelesseness and once by someone else's. I'm not certain how much output a SW LED would have in terms of microwatts per square centimeter > (which is one standard by which we typically measure radiant output power), but even if it is small, that energy is not doing anyone's eyes any good. > > Don H > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Sep 9 18:43:55 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Sep 9 18:43:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] SW dangers (was) searching for fluorescent minerals References: <090820042121.24085.413F77C00000DB7200005E15216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <413FC371.6FBF@Tomaszewski.net> <6.1.2.0.0.20040908181514.03b4ac30@mail.aloha.net> <6.1.1.1.2.20040909101108.0250dd30@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <414106CD.7E1B@Tomaszewski.net> If you want a really bright SW light, make your own SW laser. Sam's Laser FAQ (easily found on Google) tells you how to make your own lasers. The Journal of Applied Physics (and other sources) tell how to use yttrium aluminum neodymium compounds, and the sum frequency mixing process, to produce (tunable!) 254 nm UV efficiently (also easily found on Google) by mixing two lasers in beta-borium borate crystals. But the SFM process does have around 99.5% loss, so you will have to make some high powered primaries to get out of nW ranges into mW output levels. Believe it or not, but you could do this at home. Kreigh Tim Fisher wrote: > > As I am sure everyone has figured out, it is a "blacklight" flashlight, > i.e. LW, not SW. They are extremely popular and all over the net and at > local stores. I saw one at the $3 store here a few weeks ago. > > http://www.epartyunlimited.com/uvflashlight.html appears to be 370nM > > Here is a website reviewing UV LEDs http://ledmuseum.home.att.net/leduv.htm > > They are ALL in the 360-395 nM range - not even close to SW which is > defined as 254 nM. > > Here is the SW LED http://optics.org/articles/news/9/11/14/1 > > Google, people! > > At 11:11 PM 9/8/2004, you wrote: > >A flashlight that produces SW would be dangerous to flash around in > >someone's eyes! Perhaps if it is LCD it would not be dangerous---what do > >you experts think? Pete, Don, Earl, Axel? Bill (my resident physicist > >husband) says he can imagine making SW with LED, but can't right now think > >how it could be done with LCD. In any case, the thought of > >people---especially kids---being able to point a short wave light around > >into other people's eyes, or into their own, is a terrifying thought! > > > >Docia, I assume that if you get a SW UV lamp you will read the warnings if > >you are not already aware of them. I have occasionally glanced ever so > >briefly into SW lamps even as a child, and suffered no harm. But my > >sister-in-law had cataract surgery, and apparently it left her eyes very > >susceptible to UV light. She got a very brief accidental glance into our > >hand-held SW lamp from a distance of about 7 or 8 meters and later > >suffered pain and watering from her eyes. She went to a doctor who said > >her eyes showed signs of severe sunburn, and she went though a lot of > >treatment, eye drops, etc. So BE CAREFUL with SW light! > > > >Aloha, Kitty > > > > > > > > > >At 04:44 PM 9/8/2004, you wrote: > >>BTW, My youngest daughter recently came home from the 'Dollar Store' > >>with a set of cheap pens that used fluorescent inks in eight colors. It > >>came with a minature LCD flashlight that used three wristwatch batteries > >>and produced SW light as strong as my cheap $35 plug in unit. I went > >>back but they were sold out and wouldn't/couldn't tell me where they > >>came from; the package was from a mfgr in Taiwan I could not find on > >>Google. Someone is making really cheap UV light flashlights using LCDs. > >>If you can find them, grab some (and let us know who is making them). > >> > >>Kreigh > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From ItalianMinerals at libero.it Thu Sep 9 23:36:19 2004 From: ItalianMinerals at libero.it (Italian Minerals) Date: Thu Sep 9 23:36:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD - large rock update ! Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20040910083616.01b8a008@popmail.libero.it> Hi there, just finished updating my site with several interesting specimens ! first of all some new tourmaline and beryl specimen from Isola Elba have been added to the pages dedicated to the pegmatite minerals. Other interesting rocks such as litticoatite from Madagascar, egirina from Malawi, brasilianite from Brasil, fluorite from Illinois and from Italy, pyromorphite from Spain, rhodocrosite from Peru', leucite, osumilite, vesuvianite from Italy. Visit our home page: www.italianminerals.com or goto : www.italianminerals.com/whatsnew-12.html For pegmatite minerals goto: www.italianminerals.com/ITALY/ELBA-2004/tourmaline-2004-1.html Regards, Alessandro (ItalianMinerals) ============================= Italian Minerals http://www.italianminerals.com quality minerals from Italy and worldwide ============================= From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Sep 10 03:08:26 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Sep 10 03:08:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] SW dangers (was) searching for fluorescent minerals References: <090920041157.5463.41404510000E1CFA0000155721603762239D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> <41410099.5265@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <001701c4971e$1ed9cda0$1cbffea9@HPAXEL> Hi Kreigh, > I was not sure if it was SW or LW, so before making the post I tried to > find the light in my daughter's messy room to check. I didn't actually > find the light, That is messy indeed, considering that the lights are usually attached to the ceiling... (just kidding) My son has the same chaos-mania. He actually has to pole vault from the door of his room onto his bed. Trying to reach he bed on foot would dwarf the search for King Solomon's mines. A tangled mass of clothes, books and other indistinguishable items block the path to his lair. My son's a real tough coockie! He must be since he avoided being eaten by the unspeakable horrors that evolved and dwell in the ecologic niche that the bottom half meter of his room resembles. Eat that, Indiana Jones! (LOL) > But I must not have had my brain in gear because you are right, no sane > manufacturer would be putting SW flashlights into kids hands because of > the risks. Having personal experience with the intense pain of eyeball > sunburn from hard UV (from a carbon arc) I should have known better. It > must be a LW light. The brightness of the UV is possibly the result of the focussing of the output light. Less than 10? beam-spreading is common. > BTW, It does appear that SW LEDs are on the horizon commercially. Remains the "complexity theory" issue: Lasersources are highly organised matter (crystals). They have to be because the nature of their reaction to stimuli demands it. UV-lasers are more energetic than normal lasers and require more input. Both stong energy discharges and the output UV tend to destroy the neatly organised matter, which the laser is all about. The only way to avoid the laser from destroying itself is a very good feedback system that guards the output and cuts or lowers the enery feed when output get's too high. It can probably be done but the monitoring and steering devices would tend to be much larger than the laser itself. I think we won't see affordable and small SW-lasers in the first say 20 years... But I 've been wrong before and, contrary to the people working on that research, I have very little knowlegde in that field.... So we keep our hopes up ;-))) Cheers Axel From tutor at tuks.co.za Fri Sep 10 04:16:05 2004 From: tutor at tuks.co.za (Johan Lubbe) Date: Fri Sep 10 04:16:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] UV Leds & Herks (Johan) Message-ID: <1094814965.41418cf53b47f@student.up.ac.za> Greetings, >BTW, My youngest daughter recently came home from the 'Dollar Store' >with a set of cheap pens that used fluorescent inks in eight colors. It >came with a minature LCD flashlight that used three wristwatch batteries >and produced .... Sure this was SW and not LW UV? King Bright (search for their website) makes UV LEDs, but the wavelength is too long to be of much use. At the club's UV mineral meeting some calsite turned a nice red, but at home, the same specimen didn't do a thing under these LEDs. I bought one to experiment with a couple of months ago, but all it does is make some of the ink on banknotes shiney. >Herkimers are largely waterclear, doubly terminated, floaters owing to >precipititation of silica out of the water by bacteria....They occasionally >but rarely have an inclusions of water or petroleum If anyone has a pic of a nice Herk with some petroleum inclusions please forward a link or even better, mail a picture :) Best regards Johan From Docia1154 at aol.com Fri Sep 10 05:08:00 2004 From: Docia1154 at aol.com (Docia1154@aol.com) Date: Fri Sep 10 05:08:19 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] green rattlesnake Message-ID: <64.43a357cb.2e72f320@aol.com> sounds like it was actually a pretty site and unusual as well. In a message dated 9/9/2004 5:30:02 PM Central Daylight Time, pawpawtiger@mchsi.com writes: BTW you mentioned snakes, and We recently saw a GREEN rattlesnake. No mistake. His light green color blended almost perfectly with the rocks and vegetation at the I-70 road cut outside Denver that has great info posted along a trail about the various colored layers exposed in the cut.... Mr. Rattler did not take well at all to me & my video camera and put on a great show to warn me! Of course I ran out of tape right then. But my daughter got at least one good still picture. Glenn --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From LarryRush at worldnet.att.net Fri Sep 10 07:30:40 2004 From: LarryRush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Fri Sep 10 07:34:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] UV Leds & Herks (Johan) References: <1094814965.41418cf53b47f@student.up.ac.za> Message-ID: <000801c49742$de357ea0$dd8d4c0c@fekib> What is here called petroleum may actually be an organic hydrocarbon, called anthraxolite by local collectors. It is generally found as solid, black fragments as inclusions and occasionally as loose grains in the vugs and rock fractures. It has been studied by Dunn And Fisher, (American Journal of Science, 1954) and is thought to be the remains of organic material incorporated into the dolostone. The inclusions may be so numerous as to color the quartz gray and black, and lead to some interesting combinations of scepters and crystals with black sections. The dolomite itself may be colored black in spots, with "veins" of color with this material. At times, it is found as loose grains like sand in the cavities. It is relatively common in the clear crystals, and often is regarded as a nuisance to collectors, who are always looking for the water-clear specimens. I have not seen it occur as a liquid, although that may be possible. Also see Rocks and Minerals, Vol.75, No.4 for some descriptive literature and pictures. Larry Rush ----- Original Message ----- From: Johan Lubbe To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 7:16 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] UV Leds & Herks (Johan) >Herkimers are largely waterclear, doubly terminated, floaters owing to >precipititation of silica out of the water by bacteria....They occasionally >but rarely have an inclusions of water or petroleum If anyone has a pic of a nice Herk with some petroleum inclusions please forward a link or even better, mail a picture :) Best regards Johan _______________________________________________ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dguin at earthlink.net Fri Sep 10 07:47:23 2004 From: dguin at earthlink.net (Dave Guin) Date: Fri Sep 10 07:47:25 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] green rattlesnake In-Reply-To: <64.43a357cb.2e72f320@aol.com> References: <64.43a357cb.2e72f320@aol.com> Message-ID: <4141BE7B.8040307@earthlink.net> In a message dated 9/9/2004 5:30:02 PM Central Daylight Time, >pawpawtiger@mchsi.com writes: >BTW you mentioned snakes, and We recently saw a GREEN rattlesnake. No >mistake. His light green color blended almost perfectly with the rocks and >vegetation at the I-70 road cut outside Denver that has great info posted >along a trail about the various colored layers exposed in the cut.... Mr. >Rattler did not take well at all to me & my video camera and put on a great >show to warn me! Of course I ran out of tape right then. But my daughter got >at least one good still picture. > > http://digital-desert.com/wildlife/mojave-green-rattlesnake.html Mojave Rattlesnake The often mis-named "Mojave Green" (Crotalus scutulatus) has the most potent venom of any rattlesnake in North America. Its poison is about 16 times more powerful than that of the Sidewinder. They can be identified by their triangular-shaped head and diamond-shaped markings along their body, and of course, rattles. They are brown in color in the lower elevations and darken to a green in the higher regions near the mountains. Their eggs hatch within them so anywhere from 4 to 24 baby snakes are born live in a litter. Be careful out there Peace, dave --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Gslrocks at aol.com Fri Sep 10 07:50:17 2004 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Fri Sep 10 07:50:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] UV Leds & Herks (Johan) Message-ID: <129.4b38dbdd.2e731929@aol.com> i have encountered a black tar/putty like substance in some vugs that has a consistency of stiff bubble gum. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From shm at tapnet.net Fri Sep 10 08:54:08 2004 From: shm at tapnet.net (SHM) Date: Fri Sep 10 08:55:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] SW dangers (was) searching for fluorescent minerals In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20040908181514.03b4ac30@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <004a01c4974e$88c7b850$b4e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Hi Kitty (and list), You are right, the hazards of SW ultraviolet light should not be underestimated. I've been through this several times (slow learner) and it's not fun. By now my eyes are so sensitive that I instantly feel a slight stinging sensation whenever I am around ultraviolet light, even LW. With previous generations of UV lamps we didn't have to worry too much about a brief glance into the light, or about UV reflected from minerals as long as our exposure to them was fairly short. However, all bets are off with the new generation of weapons-grade display lights, some of which now have more than 100 watts of output. When Don Newsome first brought his TripleBright lights to mount in some of our museum exhibits, he also brought with him a pair of full face-guards, the swing-down shields like welders use. He wasn't kidding about using them, and neither are we. I've often read that repeated exposure to SW ultraviolet light can substantially increase one's chances of having cataracts later in life. I don't know the medical basis of such claims, but it seems only prudent to believe them. Cheers- Earl -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill Heacox Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 2:11 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] SW dangers (was) searching for fluorescent minerals A flashlight that produces SW would be dangerous to flash around in someone's eyes! Perhaps if it is LCD it would not be dangerous---what do you experts think? Pete, Don, Earl, Axel? Bill (my resident physicist husband) says he can imagine making SW with LED, but can't right now think how it could be done with LCD. In any case, the thought of people---especially kids---being able to point a short wave light around into other people's eyes, or into their own, is a terrifying thought! Docia, I assume that if you get a SW UV lamp you will read the warnings if you are not already aware of them. I have occasionally glanced ever so briefly into SW lamps even as a child, and suffered no harm. But my sister-in-law had cataract surgery, and apparently it left her eyes very susceptible to UV light. She got a very brief accidental glance into our hand-held SW lamp from a distance of about 7 or 8 meters and later suffered pain and watering from her eyes. She went to a doctor who said her eyes showed signs of severe sunburn, and she went though a lot of treatment, eye drops, etc. So BE CAREFUL with SW light! Aloha, Kitty From shm at tapnet.net Fri Sep 10 09:09:35 2004 From: shm at tapnet.net (SHM) Date: Fri Sep 10 09:10:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] SW dangers (was) searching for fluorescent minerals In-Reply-To: <003e01c496aa$10cb6b70$1cbffea9@HPAXEL> Message-ID: <004b01c49750$b0eee2c0$b4e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Good afternoon Axel (and list), I'll have to check on how the fluorescence of Franklin calcite and willemite was first discovered. I suppose it could have been from arc welders, but I've also heard that the first discovery was in one of the early mills, when workers there used to throw knife switches to complete the DC power circuits. A spark commonly results when the circuit is completed, and that spark is rich in SW UV. You are right that arc-welding on the Trotter dump or in the Rainbow room should prove interesting. Here at Franklin and Sterling Hill we have access to some of the old iron-spark machines, most of which were homemade and were used to view mineral fluorescence before mercury-tube lamps became widely available, so we can create these effects at will. Ewald Gerstmann (Gerstmann Mineral Museum, Franklin) used to have a particularly large iron spark machine as part of his fluorescent display, and it was quite exciting, a mechanical monster noisily spitting sparks and causing the minerals to fluoresce in almost stroboscopic fashion. Dogs and children cowered in fear from this device, the air filled with vaporized metal, and TV reception was disrupted for blocks around . . . Cheers- Earl -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 4:18 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] SW dangers (was) searching for fluorescent minerals > That sounds like what arc welders call 'flash burns.' Don't ask me how I know > what that feels like. > > Grant Well, that's exactly what it is, Grant. "Welding eyes" as we call it in Flemish. BTW, if I recall it right, the fluorescence of the Franklin minerals calcite and willemite was first discovered by arc welders. The arc has the spectrum of iron in it, which has a lot of UV between 200 and 350 nm. Iron salts are actually used to make "hard-core" UV-lamps for curing inks and glues. In those days there were no UV-transparent filters to block the visible light but still... Arc-welding at night on the Trotter dump or in the Rainbow room should produce some interesting color effects ;-))) Cheers Axel > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Hairibut at aol.com Fri Sep 10 12:44:42 2004 From: Hairibut at aol.com (Hairibut@aol.com) Date: Fri Sep 10 12:44:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] UV Leds & Herks (Johan) Message-ID: <43A6725F.17FB765D.00734CB4@aol.com> In my past collecting trips to Herkimer (since about 1980) I have found that when I do open a pocket every so often, and among the really good ones I've seen a few other people open, the ones with the best quality crystals seem to be filled with the black 'sand'. Ironicaly, they seem to have been the clearest ones. I also have one of my favorites which came out of a 'black' pocket. It is about 1" long with an anhydrous pocket about 1/4 inch long in it. Contained in the pocket is a tiny bit of the black 'tar' and it floats, kind of like a reverse snow globe. Has anyone seen any other crystals like this? From Lapadary at aol.com Fri Sep 10 13:22:40 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Fri Sep 10 13:22:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] SW dangers (was) searching for fluorescent minerals Message-ID: In a message dated 9/10/04 8:55:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time, shm@tapnet.net writes: I've often read that repeated exposure to SW ultraviolet light can substantially increase one's chances of having cataracts later in life. I don't know the medical basis of such claims, but it seems only prudent to believe them. I don't know if there is a connection but I've had flash burns in the past and now have a moderate cataract. The last time I had my eyes tested the doctor said they were there but not a problem yet. Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Sep 10 16:13:48 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Sep 10 16:13:49 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] UV Leds & Herks (Johan) References: <1094814965.41418cf53b47f@student.up.ac.za> <000801c49742$de357ea0$dd8d4c0c@fekib> Message-ID: <41423523.17D3@Tomaszewski.net> You can see a picture of a Herk w/ oil at http://www.herkimerdiamondsource.20,,.com/custom2.html Lawrence Rush wrote: > > > > Larry Rush > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Johan Lubbe > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 7:16 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] UV Leds & Herks (Johan) > > >Herkimers are largely waterclear, doubly terminated, floaters owing to > >precipititation of silica out of the water by bacteria....They occasionally > >but rarely have an inclusions of water or petroleum > > If anyone has a pic of a nice Herk with some petroleum inclusions please > forward a link or even better, mail a picture :) > > Best regards > Johan > _______________________________________________ > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Sep 10 17:32:55 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Sep 10 17:32:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] UV Leds & Herks (Johan) References: <1094814965.41418cf53b47f@student.up.ac.za> <000801c49742$de357ea0$dd8d4c0c@fekib> <41423523.17D3@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <414247A5.62BE@Tomaszewski.net> Oops http://www.herkimerdiamondsource.20mm.com/custom2.html Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > You can see a picture of a Herk w/ oil at > > http://www.herkimerdiamondsource.20,,.com/custom2.html > > Lawrence Rush wrote: > > > > > > > > Larry Rush > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Johan Lubbe > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 7:16 AM > > Subject: [Rockhounds] UV Leds & Herks (Johan) > > > > >Herkimers are largely waterclear, doubly terminated, floaters owing to > > >precipititation of silica out of the water by bacteria....They occasionally > > >but rarely have an inclusions of water or petroleum > > > > If anyone has a pic of a nice Herk with some petroleum inclusions please > > forward a link or even better, mail a picture :) > > > > Best regards > > Johan > > _______________________________________________ > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Sep 11 04:25:10 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Sep 11 04:24:52 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] UV Leds & Herks (Johan) References: <1094814965.41418cf53b47f@student.up.ac.za> <000801c49742$de357ea0$dd8d4c0c@fekib><41423523.17D3@Tomaszewski.net> <414247A5.62BE@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <001101c497f2$00ab90a0$1cbffea9@HPAXEL> Re-oops.... The site seems to have been leeched by http://www.hostsphere.com/custom2.html Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 2:32 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] UV Leds & Herks (Johan) > Oops > > http://www.herkimerdiamondsource.20mm.com/custom2.html > > Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > > You can see a picture of a Herk w/ oil at > > > > http://www.herkimerdiamondsource.20,,.com/custom2.html > > > > Lawrence Rush wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Larry Rush > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Johan Lubbe > > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > > Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 7:16 AM > > > Subject: [Rockhounds] UV Leds & Herks (Johan) > > > > > > >Herkimers are largely waterclear, doubly terminated, floaters owing to > > > >precipititation of silica out of the water by bacteria....They occasionally > > > >but rarely have an inclusions of water or petroleum > > > > > > If anyone has a pic of a nice Herk with some petroleum inclusions please > > > forward a link or even better, mail a picture :) > > > > > > Best regards > > > Johan > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > multipart/alternative > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > text/html > > > --- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Sep 11 04:55:06 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Sep 11 04:54:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] SW dangers (was) searching for fluorescent minerals References: <004b01c49750$b0eee2c0$b4e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <002601c497f6$30f9e910$1cbffea9@HPAXEL> > Good afternoon Axel (and list), Hoi Earl > I'll have to check on how the fluorescence of Franklin calcite and willemite > was first discovered. I suppose it could have been from arc welders, but > I've also heard that the first discovery was in one of the early mills, when > workers there used to throw knife switches to complete the DC power > circuits. A spark commonly results when the circuit is completed, and that > spark is rich in SW UV. One would expect a much larger spark upon breaking the circuit rather than completing it... especially when heavy machinery is drawing much current. But it's possible... I don't remember where I got the info, I think it was a book ... Sterling Gleason peraps? Hm, I'd have to look it up ;-)))) > You are right that arc-welding on the Trotter dump or in the Rainbow room > should prove interesting. Here at Franklin and Sterling Hill we have access > to some of the old iron-spark machines, most of which were homemade and were > used to view mineral fluorescence before mercury-tube lamps became widely > available, so we can create these effects at will. Ewald Gerstmann > (Gerstmann Mineral Museum, Franklin) used to have a particularly large iron > spark machine as part of his fluorescent display, and it was quite exciting, > a mechanical monster noisily spitting sparks and causing the minerals to > fluoresce in almost stroboscopic fashion. Dogs and children cowered in fear > from this device, the air filled with vaporized metal, and TV reception was > disrupted for blocks around . . . Do I smell a "contradictio in tempori" or did TV precede mercury-tube lamps? Hm, I'm not sure.... For demostrations in a museumomental settings a faraday cage may provide solace from angry hordes of Telemaniacs Not only arc welding is a good UV-source... Acetylene or hydrogen welding does the same but with more visible light since it's specrum is thermal and thus continous. But a Planck spectrum of an object glowing at 3500 K will contain a lot of SW-UV... Cheers Axel From jabac at hal-pc.org Sat Sep 11 06:15:03 2004 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Sat Sep 11 06:05:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] SW dangers (was) searching for fluorescent minerals In-Reply-To: <002601c497f6$30f9e910$1cbffea9@HPAXEL> References: <004b01c49750$b0eee2c0$b4e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> <002601c497f6$30f9e910$1cbffea9@HPAXEL> Message-ID: <1094908503.2982.8.camel@localhost> On Sat, 2004-09-11 at 06:55, Axel Emmermann wrote: > > Good afternoon Axel (and list), > > Hoi Earl > > > I'll have to check on how the fluorescence of Franklin calcite and > willemite > > was first discovered. I suppose it could have been from arc welders, but > > I've also heard that the first discovery was in one of the early mills, > when > > workers there used to throw knife switches to complete the DC power > > circuits. A spark commonly results when the circuit is completed, and > that > > spark is rich in SW UV. ... > Cheers > > Axel For the iron-arc apparatus q.v. www.minsocam.org/MSA/collectors_corner/arc/franklinii.htm This is a reprint of the American Mineralogist article Vol. 13, pp. 330-333, 1928 john From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Fri Sep 10 06:28:43 2004 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Sat Sep 11 12:30:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] SW dangers (was) searching for fluorescent minerals References: Message-ID: <000201c49835$dd947840$e23f27c4@privatehome> We call it "arc eyes". Horst ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 9:19 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] SW dangers (was) searching for fluorescent minerals > In a message dated 9/9/04 6:55:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > axel.emmermann@pandora.be writes: > Even if it was a SW-LED, you would have to look into it from a short > distance and for some time. But still, ad this goes for ALL potentially > damaging radiation: better safe than sorry... > A strong SW-lamp will cause you eyes to feel like you have sand in hem even > after a few seconds and prolonged exposure will result in extremely painful > eyes and Niagara's of tears on both sides of your nose. > > That sounds like what arc welders call 'flash burns.' Don't ask me how I know > what that feels like. > > Grant > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Sun Sep 12 02:23:48 2004 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Sun Sep 12 03:07:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ron Neumeyer Message-ID: <000601c498b0$49fb5290$464227c4@privatehome> Hi Ron, Please contact me offline at horstwindisch@absamail.co.za if you wish to obtain more information on our sand collecting society, Sand Collectors International. Regards, Horst From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sun Sep 12 09:45:01 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun Sep 12 09:45:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Symposium Illinois-Kentucky fluorite district Message-ID: <007901c498e7$d8d2d6a0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Hello, There are 5 openings for the Friends of Mineralogy (Midwest) symposium Oct. 1 - 3, 2004 in Marion, Kentucky which focuses on the Illinois-Kentucky fluoite district. Contact me directly (not the list) is you have an interest in participating. Registration is $50 plus lunches. The capacity for this symposium is 30 people. * Reception at the Ben Clement Mineral Museum, Friday Evening 6:00 - 9:00 PM * Field collecting and tour of Ozark Mahoning flotation mill in Rosiclare Saturday (8:00AM - 4:30PM) * Admission to the American Fluorite Museum * Dinner & Symposium Saturday Evening * Field collecting Sunday at four KY mine dumps (8:00AM - 2:00PM) * 26 page Symposium Guide Book with 8 articles and 3 pages of color photos featuring unusual minerals from the district Alan Goldstein --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From ItalianMinerals at libero.it Sun Sep 12 11:58:23 2004 From: ItalianMinerals at libero.it (Italian Minerals) Date: Sun Sep 12 11:58:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD - Ebay auction ! last 2 h Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20040912205708.01b05d48@popmail.libero.it> Hi there, last 2 h for nice specimens at low starting bids ! give a look http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=italianminerals&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=25 In case you are interested in pegmatite minerals you might want to see what we found during our last field trip at Isola Elba, Italy ! http://www.italianminerals.com/ITALY/ELBA-2004/tourmaline-2004-1.html or just check our recent updates: http://www.italianminerals.com/whatsnew-12.html Hope to have you visiting our website, www.ItalianMinerals.com ============================= Italian Minerals http://www.italianminerals.com quality minerals from Italy and worldwide ============================= From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sun Sep 12 19:11:00 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun Sep 12 19:11:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Falls Fossil Festival, Clarksville Indiana Message-ID: <003801c49936$eac66210$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Hello, A reminder for all those fossil fanatics out there that the Falls of the Ohio State Park's 10th Falls Fossil Festival will be held the 18th & 19th of this month. We are located across the river from Louisville in Clarksville, Indiana. Please check the web site for a detailed program, we have some top-notch guest speakers and our big "Dinosaurs and More!" exhibit will be nearing the end of its 6 month run. Liter's Quarry will be adding to the Waldron Shale fossil pile, although it is still producing even a year after the last fossil festival. A local collector found a Eucalyptocrinites crassus crown last week! Alan Goldstein Falls Fossil Festival web site: www.fallsoftheohio.org/fossil_festival.shtml --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Sun Sep 12 19:22:29 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Sun Sep 12 19:18:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Down in Orlando In-Reply-To: <002b01c496bc$2b9639a0$6401a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <200409130217.i8D2Hxx5010927@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Hi All.. I'm going to be down in Orlando from Wednesday evening through late Saturday afternoon visiting a customer. Of course, I'd love to do some trading/visiting with rockhounds in the near environs, or visit some shops. (Assuming the storms cooperate!) Lots of Sterling Hill material looking for a good home . Let me know, eh? Gary Brown http://www.catspaw-minerals.com Home of the MasMils/PLUS Mine Location Disk From bombastus at worldnet.att.net Mon Sep 13 07:04:54 2004 From: bombastus at worldnet.att.net (Homer Eshbaugh) Date: Mon Sep 13 07:04:57 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Greek Labels References: Message-ID: <000401c4999a$a587cbd0$8498490c@HHEPC> Hi, Larry, et al., So I said to myself, "Well, shoot! With the availability of free, modern translate software available on the web, how hard can it be to translate this?" Pretty hard, it turns out.. First, I had to change the standard Roman characters into Greek characters. That's not so bad. MS Word supports Greek symbols and the web has plenty of places that list the Greek alphabet. I discovered a few typos in the original message (Epsion instead of Epsilon, Opta instead of Iota, and Tai instead of Tau), but that was easy to deal with. The results are shown below, with both upper and lower case Greek characters. 1st Line: Phi, Theta, Omicron, Rho, Iota, Tau, Omicron, Upsilon Sigma, Epsion Kappa, Alpha, Lambda, Sigma, Opta. Tai. Eta ???????? ?? ??????? ???????? ?? ??????? 2nd Line: Alpha, Sigma, Beta, Epsilon, Sigma, Tau, Iota, Tau, Eta, Sigma ?????????? ?????????? Simple transliteration (i.e., replacing the Greek character with the equivalent Roman character) yields the following: phthoritou se kalsite asbestites "Piece of cake," I said to myself. "Even a cursory examination yields 'calcite' in the first line and 'asbestos' in the second line; now for the rest of the translation." What na?vet?! Only one of the nine Greek translators I could find would translate any of the words. It translated "??" from the 1st line as "in" or "into". Just for a lark, I asked for an English to Greek translation of "calcite". It returned "????????H?", the single word in the 2nd line! Further investigation finally revealed a translation or the first line as "Fluorite in ?" I do note that the last word in the first line could be a simple phonetic transliteration of the word "CALCITE" from the Roman alphabet to the Greek alphabet. However, now I'm into pure speculation, and likely mistaken. Finally, several translators returned a Greek word for "asbestos"; "????????" (upper case - "???????"). So. my best guess would be "Fluorite in Calcite", and that "asbestos" (which seemed so promising when using the "if only it were English" school of translation) is not in the running. If anyone can add to this, I'd be very interested. Homer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Gilmore" To: Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 9:04 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Greek Labels > Hi Larry: > > > The end fo the first label is "calcite", and the second label is "asbestos". > > Paul > > > >From: "Lawrence Bull" > >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >collectors" > >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > >Subject: [Rockhounds] Greek Labels > >Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 00:10:14 +0000 > > > > > > > >I have two minerals with Greek language labels...Does anyone know Greek? I > >will put the letters > >below: > > > >1st: Phi, Theta, Omicron, Rho, Iota, Tau, Omicron, Upsilon Sigma, > >Epsion Kappa, Alpha, Lambda, Sigma, Opta. Tai. Eta > > > >2nd: Alpha, Sigma, Beta, Epsilon, Sigma, Tau, Iota, Tau, Eta, Sigma > > > >Your help will be appreciated. > > > >Thank you, > > > >Larry Bull > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! > >http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _________________________________________________________________ > Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From bombastus at worldnet.att.net Mon Sep 13 07:12:48 2004 From: bombastus at worldnet.att.net (Homer Eshbaugh) Date: Mon Sep 13 07:12:52 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Greek Labels References: Message-ID: <000d01c4999b$c0560520$8498490c@HHEPC> Oops! I see that outlook express had a problem with the Greek character ser. Let's see if this will do any better. Homer ================================================================== Hi, Larry, et.al, So I said to myself, "Well, shoot! With the availability of free, modern translate software available on the web, how hard can it be to translate this?" Pretty hard, it turns out?. First, I had to change the standard Roman characters into Greek characters. That's not so bad. MS Word supports Greek symbols and the web has plenty of places that list the Greek alphabet. I discovered a few typos in the original message (Epsion instead of Epsilon, Opta instead of Iota, and Tai instead of Tau), but that was easy to deal with. The results are shown below, with both upper and lower case Greek characters. 1st Line: Phi, Theta, Omicron, Rho, Iota, Tau, Omicron, Upsilon Sigma, Epsion Kappa, Alpha, Lambda, Sigma, Opta. Tai. Eta ???????? ?? ??????? ???????? ?? ??????? 2nd Line: Alpha, Sigma, Beta, Epsilon, Sigma, Tau, Iota, Tau, Eta, Sigma ?????????? ?????????? Simple transliteration (i.e., replacing the Greek character with the equivalent Roman character) yields the following: phthoritou se kalsite asbestites ?Piece of cake,? I said to myself. ?Even a cursory examination yields ?calcite? in the first line and ?asbestos? in the second line; now for the rest of the translation.? What na?vet?! Only one of the nine Greek translators I could find would translate any of the words. It translated ???? from the 1st line as ?in? or ?into?. Just for a lark, I asked for an English to Greek translation of ?calcite?. It returned ?????????H??, the single word in the 2nd line! Further investigation finally revealed a translation or the first line as ?Fluorite in ?? I do note that the last word in the first line could be a simple phonetic transliteration of the word ?CALCITE? from the Roman alphabet to the Greek alphabet. However, now I?m into pure speculation, and likely mistaken. Finally, several translators returned a Greek word for ?asbestos?; ?????????? (upper case ? ?????????). So? my best guess would be ?Fluorite in Calcite?, and that ?asbestos? (which seemed so promising when using the ?if only it were English? school of translation) is not in the running. If anyone can add to this, I?d be very interested. Homer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Gilmore" To: Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 9:04 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Greek Labels > Hi Larry: > > > The end fo the first label is "calcite", and the second label is "asbestos". > > Paul > > > >From: "Lawrence Bull" > >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >collectors" > >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > >Subject: [Rockhounds] Greek Labels > >Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 00:10:14 +0000 > > > > > > > >I have two minerals with Greek language labels...Does anyone know Greek? I > >will put the letters > >below: > > > >1st: Phi, Theta, Omicron, Rho, Iota, Tau, Omicron, Upsilon Sigma, > >Epsion Kappa, Alpha, Lambda, Sigma, Opta. Tai. Eta > > > >2nd: Alpha, Sigma, Beta, Epsilon, Sigma, Tau, Iota, Tau, Eta, Sigma > > > >Your help will be appreciated. > > > >Thank you, > > > >Larry Bull > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! > >http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _________________________________________________________________ > Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From jonee at epix.net Mon Sep 13 18:16:36 2004 From: jonee at epix.net (E. L. Jones) Date: Mon Sep 13 18:16:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 2 Famous Volcanos erupt within hours of each other In-Reply-To: <16e501c488cd$e17c4ef0$6402a8c0@remains> References: <004401c4885c$7cbdd180$6402a8c0@remains> <047f01c488ca$985dc530$2a5d70d1@S0033035959> <16e501c488cd$e17c4ef0$6402a8c0@remains> Message-ID: <41464674.4030401@epix.net> For those that like their rocks really fresh-- I mean REALLLLLLY fresh , and the end of the world cults, both Mauna Loa in Hawaii and Mt Etna in Sicily erupted within the last 24 hours. On the Big Island of Hawaii, Kilauea has been erupting continuously since 1983. Mauna Loa is the taller quieter one whos last eruption was in 1982 I believe, Etna has intermittent belches but have lava flows in the last couple years Flowing Lava is interesting to experiment with. It can also melt the shoes on your feet and the M&Ms in your backpack, not in your hands... Been there, done that, melted the t-shirt. Elton Aditional Stories at; Mauna Loa http://starbulletin.com/2004/09/13/news/story1.html Etna Mauna Loa rumbles awake A flurry of earthquakes persuades scientists the volcano could soon begin spewing lava ------------------------------------------------------------------------ By Mary Vorsino mvorsino@starbulletin.com "Unprecedented" activity deep under Mauna Loa this summer could be another sign that the world's largest volcano is headed toward an eruption, a scientist says. Fast Facts: Mauna Loa ? World's largest volcano and among the most active. ? Rises gradually to 13,677 feet, more than 2 miles above sea level. ? Has erupted 33 times since 1843. ? Longest period between modern-day eruptions was 25 years, between 1950 and 1975. ? Last eruption was in 1984, when lava flowed for 22 days and came to within 5.3 miles of an upland part of Hilo. SOURCE: U.S. GEOLOGICAL SURVEY More than 350 earthquakes have been recorded since July. Such frequent, small earthquakes have never before been measured beneath Mauna Loa's summit caldera. Data on Mauna Loa's seismic activity started to be collected in the 1930s, and Hawaiian Volcano Observatory scientist-in-charge Donald Swanson said even the instruments of that era would have detected the quakes. "They're unprecedented," he said, "since we started studying Mauna Loa." Despite the quakes, Swanson emphasized that an eruption should not be expected within the next few weeks or even months. There is no good estimate on when the volcano could erupt. But before an eruption, scientists would probably see the volcano's swelling increase and detect stronger earthquakes nearer to the surface, he said. "What we're seeing now is just a prelude to an eruption," Swanson said. "It's a clear indication that the volcano is restless, but we've known that for more than two years because it started to inflate." In May 2002, after nearly 10 years of slight deflation, Mauna Loa's summit started to swell. Similar expansions had preceded Mauna Loa's past two eruptions, in 1984 and 1975. Swanson said the recent quakes have not increased in frequency since July, but rather fluctuated in number from "day to day and week to week," Swanson said. Last week, there were about 12 earthquakes recorded, he said. The quakes occur about 25 miles beneath the volcano's summit caldera and the adjacent part of the southwest rift. Their size and depth have stayed about the same, Swanson said. Mauna Loa, which reaches 13,677 feet high, last erupted 20 years ago. Lava from the eruption covered 16 miles in 22 days, stopping just 5.3 miles short of an upland part of Hilo. In modern history the longest period between eruptions has been 25 years (from 1950 to 1975). "Twenty-five years is the record," Swanson said. "We're within the length of time that ... we should be anticipating another." Despite the unusual earthquakes, Swanson said it is still too early to step up the observatory's monitoring activities. "We haven't seen any reason to do that. All of us are aware of what's happening. We sort of have a heightened awareness," he said, adding that the number of earthquakes recorded is "quite a large number, but it's not alarming." Swanson also said it would be premature to start planning an eruption's path because that is still unclear, too. "It's still quite subdued," he said, compared with what activity atop the volcano will be like when "we'll be thinking more carefully about what and where the eruption will be." Mauna Loa is among the planet's most active volcanoes, according to the Hawaiian Volcano Observatory. Since 1843 the volcano has erupted 33 times. One of Mauna Loa's neighbors on the Big Island, Kilauea, is also within Hawaii Volcanoes National Park and has been erupting continuously since Jan. 3, 1983. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To read daily updates on Mauna Loa's activity, go to the Hawaiian Volcano Observatory's Web site at *hvo.wr.usgs.gov* . ? 2004 Honolulu Star-Bulletin -- http://starbulletin.com *Lava Spews From Mount Etna on the Southern Italian Island of Sicily* ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ITALY: September 13, 2004 *Lava and smoke rises from Mount Etna on the southern Italian island of Sicily on September 11, 2004.* A new fissure yawned open on the south eastern side of Sicily's Mount Etna volcano on Tuesday, oozing out enough lava to cross a city block, researchers said. From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Sep 13 18:43:22 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Sep 13 18:41:06 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dinosaurs may have been doting parents Message-ID: <41464C12.636D@Tomaszewski.net> http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996377 From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Sep 13 19:00:46 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Sep 13 18:58:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 2 Famous Volcanos erupt within hours of each other References: <004401c4885c$7cbdd180$6402a8c0@remains> <047f01c488ca$985dc530$2a5d70d1@S0033035959> <16e501c488cd$e17c4ef0$6402a8c0@remains> <41464674.4030401@epix.net> Message-ID: <41465025.70F9@Tomaszewski.net> Make that three...the Mayan volcano in the Philippines also erupted http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,10756871%255e1702,00.html Kreigh E. L. Jones wrote: > > For those that like their rocks really fresh-- I mean REALLLLLLY fresh > , and the end of the world cults, both Mauna Loa in Hawaii and Mt Etna > in Sicily erupted within the last 24 hours. On the Big Island of > Hawaii, Kilauea has been erupting continuously since 1983. Mauna Loa is > the taller quieter one whos last eruption was in 1982 I believe, Etna > has intermittent belches but have lava flows in the last couple years > > Flowing Lava is interesting to experiment with. It can also melt the > shoes on your feet and the M&Ms in your backpack, not in your hands... > Been there, done that, melted the t-shirt. > > Elton > > Aditional Stories at; > Mauna Loa http://starbulletin.com/2004/09/13/news/story1.html > > Etna > > Mauna Loa rumbles awake > > A flurry of earthquakes persuades > scientists the volcano could soon > begin spewing lava > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > By Mary Vorsino > mvorsino@starbulletin.com > > > "Unprecedented" activity deep under Mauna Loa this summer could be > another sign that the world's largest volcano is headed toward an > eruption, a scientist says. > > Fast Facts: > Mauna Loa > > ? World's largest volcano and among the most active. > > ? Rises gradually to 13,677 feet, more than 2 miles above sea level. > > ? Has erupted 33 times since 1843. > > ? Longest period between modern-day eruptions was 25 years, between 1950 > and 1975. > > ? Last eruption was in 1984, when lava flowed for 22 days and came to > within 5.3 miles of an upland part of Hilo. > > SOURCE: U.S. GEOLOGICAL SURVEY > > More than 350 earthquakes have been recorded since July. > > Such frequent, small earthquakes have never before been measured beneath > Mauna Loa's summit caldera. Data on Mauna Loa's seismic activity started > to be collected in the 1930s, and Hawaiian Volcano Observatory > scientist-in-charge Donald Swanson said even the instruments of that era > would have detected the quakes. > > "They're unprecedented," he said, "since we started studying Mauna Loa." > > Despite the quakes, Swanson emphasized that an eruption should not be > expected within the next few weeks or even months. > > There is no good estimate on when the volcano could erupt. But before an > eruption, scientists would probably see the volcano's swelling increase > and detect stronger earthquakes nearer to the surface, he said. > > "What we're seeing now is just a prelude to an eruption," Swanson said. > "It's a clear indication that the volcano is restless, but we've known > that for more than two years because it started to inflate." > > In May 2002, after nearly 10 years of slight deflation, Mauna Loa's > summit started to swell. Similar expansions had preceded Mauna Loa's > past two eruptions, in 1984 and 1975. > > Swanson said the recent quakes have not increased in frequency since > July, but rather fluctuated in number from "day to day and week to > week," Swanson said. > > Last week, there were about 12 earthquakes recorded, he said. > > The quakes occur about 25 miles beneath the volcano's summit caldera and > the adjacent part of the southwest rift. Their size and depth have > stayed about the same, Swanson said. > > Mauna Loa, which reaches 13,677 feet high, last erupted 20 years ago. > Lava from the eruption covered 16 miles in 22 days, stopping just 5.3 > miles short of an upland part of Hilo. > > In modern history the longest period between eruptions has been 25 years > (from 1950 to 1975). > > "Twenty-five years is the record," Swanson said. "We're within the > length of time that ... we should be anticipating another." > > Despite the unusual earthquakes, Swanson said it is still too early to > step up the observatory's monitoring activities. > > "We haven't seen any reason to do that. All of us are aware of what's > happening. We sort of have a heightened awareness," he said, adding that > the number of earthquakes recorded is "quite a large number, but it's > not alarming." > > Swanson also said it would be premature to start planning an eruption's > path because that is still unclear, too. > > "It's still quite subdued," he said, compared with what activity atop > the volcano will be like when "we'll be thinking more carefully about > what and where the eruption will be." > > Mauna Loa is among the planet's most active volcanoes, according to the > Hawaiian Volcano Observatory. Since 1843 the volcano has erupted 33 times. > > One of Mauna Loa's neighbors on the Big Island, Kilauea, is also within > Hawaii Volcanoes National Park and has been erupting continuously since > Jan. 3, 1983. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > To read daily updates on Mauna Loa's activity, go to the Hawaiian > Volcano Observatory's Web site at *hvo.wr.usgs.gov* > . > > ? 2004 Honolulu Star-Bulletin -- http://starbulletin.com > > > > > > > > > > > *Lava Spews From Mount Etna on the Southern Italian Island of Sicily* > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ITALY: September 13, 2004 > > *Lava and smoke rises from Mount Etna on the southern Italian island of > Sicily on September 11, 2004.* > > A new fissure yawned open on the south eastern side of Sicily's Mount > Etna volcano on Tuesday, oozing out enough lava to cross a city block, > researchers said. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Sep 13 19:33:13 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Sep 13 19:30:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 3 Famous Volcanos erupt within hours of each other References: <004401c4885c$7cbdd180$6402a8c0@remains> <047f01c488ca$985dc530$2a5d70d1@S0033035959> <16e501c488cd$e17c4ef0$6402a8c0@remains> <41464674.4030401@epix.net> <41465025.70F9@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <414657BD.3AFF@Tomaszewski.net> Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > Make that three...the Mayan volcano in the Philippines also erupted > Should have been... http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,10756871%255E1702,00.html (I lowercased a letter that should have been upper). From kahako at aloha.net Mon Sep 13 20:00:02 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Sep 13 19:32:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 2 Famous Volcanos erupt within hours of each other In-Reply-To: <41464674.4030401@epix.net> References: <004401c4885c$7cbdd180$6402a8c0@remains> <047f01c488ca$985dc530$2a5d70d1@S0033035959> <16e501c488cd$e17c4ef0$6402a8c0@remains> <41464674.4030401@epix.net> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040913164358.02fbe210@mail.aloha.net> Sorry to correct you, Elton, but Mauna Loa did not erupt in the last 24 hours. It last erupted in 1984, and has not done so since, yet. Scientists think it may be "soon," but cannot give a close prediction. As for Kilauea, for history of its activity go to: http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/summary/ and, as I've posted several times before, for great pictures go to: http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/main.html also click on Image Archive at the top for ones from the past. Aloha, Kitty At 03:16 PM 9/13/2004, you wrote: >For those that like their rocks really fresh-- I mean REALLLLLLY fresh , >and the end of the world cults, both Mauna Loa in Hawaii and Mt Etna in >Sicily erupted within the last 24 hours. On the Big Island of Hawaii, >Kilauea has been erupting continuously since 1983. Mauna Loa is the >taller quieter one whos last eruption was in 1982 I believe, Etna has >intermittent belches but have lava flows in the last couple years > >Flowing Lava is interesting to experiment with. It can also melt the >shoes on your feet and the M&Ms in your backpack, not in your hands... >Been there, done that, melted the t-shirt. > >Elton > >Aditional Stories at; >Mauna Loa http://starbulletin.com/2004/09/13/news/story1.html > >Etna > > > Mauna Loa rumbles awake > > > A flurry of earthquakes persuades > scientists the volcano could soon > begin spewing lava > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >By Mary Vorsino >mvorsino@starbulletin.com > > >"Unprecedented" activity deep under Mauna Loa this summer could be another >sign that the world's largest volcano is headed toward an eruption, a >scientist says. > > > Fast Facts: > Mauna Loa > >? World's largest volcano and among the most active. > >? Rises gradually to 13,677 feet, more than 2 miles above sea level. > >? Has erupted 33 times since 1843. > >? Longest period between modern-day eruptions was 25 years, between 1950 >and 1975. > >? Last eruption was in 1984, when lava flowed for 22 days and came to >within 5.3 miles of an upland part of Hilo. > >SOURCE: U.S. GEOLOGICAL SURVEY > >More than 350 earthquakes have been recorded since July. > >Such frequent, small earthquakes have never before been measured beneath >Mauna Loa's summit caldera. Data on Mauna Loa's seismic activity started >to be collected in the 1930s, and Hawaiian Volcano Observatory >scientist-in-charge Donald Swanson said even the instruments of that era >would have detected the quakes. > >"They're unprecedented," he said, "since we started studying Mauna Loa." > >Despite the quakes, Swanson emphasized that an eruption should not be >expected within the next few weeks or even months. > >There is no good estimate on when the volcano could erupt. But before an >eruption, scientists would probably see the volcano's swelling increase >and detect stronger earthquakes nearer to the surface, he said. > >"What we're seeing now is just a prelude to an eruption," Swanson said. >"It's a clear indication that the volcano is restless, but we've known >that for more than two years because it started to inflate." > >In May 2002, after nearly 10 years of slight deflation, Mauna Loa's summit >started to swell. Similar expansions had preceded Mauna Loa's past two >eruptions, in 1984 and 1975. > >Swanson said the recent quakes have not increased in frequency since July, >but rather fluctuated in number from "day to day and week to week," >Swanson said. > >Last week, there were about 12 earthquakes recorded, he said. > >The quakes occur about 25 miles beneath the volcano's summit caldera and >the adjacent part of the southwest rift. Their size and depth have stayed >about the same, Swanson said. > >Mauna Loa, which reaches 13,677 feet high, last erupted 20 years ago. Lava >from the eruption covered 16 miles in 22 days, stopping just 5.3 miles >short of an upland part of Hilo. > >In modern history the longest period between eruptions has been 25 years >(from 1950 to 1975). > >"Twenty-five years is the record," Swanson said. "We're within the length >of time that ... we should be anticipating another." > >Despite the unusual earthquakes, Swanson said it is still too early to >step up the observatory's monitoring activities. > >"We haven't seen any reason to do that. All of us are aware of what's >happening. We sort of have a heightened awareness," he said, adding that >the number of earthquakes recorded is "quite a large number, but it's not >alarming." > >Swanson also said it would be premature to start planning an eruption's >path because that is still unclear, too. > >"It's still quite subdued," he said, compared with what activity atop the >volcano will be like when "we'll be thinking more carefully about what and >where the eruption will be." > >Mauna Loa is among the planet's most active volcanoes, according to the >Hawaiian Volcano Observatory. Since 1843 the volcano has erupted 33 times. > >One of Mauna Loa's neighbors on the Big Island, Kilauea, is also within >Hawaii Volcanoes National Park and has been erupting continuously since >Jan. 3, 1983. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >To read daily updates on Mauna Loa's activity, go to the Hawaiian Volcano >Observatory's Web site at *hvo.wr.usgs.gov* . > >? 2004 Honolulu Star-Bulletin -- http://starbulletin.com > > > > > > > > >*Lava Spews From Mount Etna on the Southern Italian Island of Sicily* >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >ITALY: September 13, 2004 > >*Lava and smoke rises from Mount Etna on the southern Italian island of >Sicily on September 11, 2004.* > >A new fissure yawned open on the south eastern side of Sicily's Mount Etna >volcano on Tuesday, oozing out enough lava to cross a city block, >researchers said. > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Sep 13 19:45:29 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Sep 13 19:43:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 2 Famous Volcanos erupt within hours of each other References: <004401c4885c$7cbdd180$6402a8c0@remains> <047f01c488ca$985dc530$2a5d70d1@S0033035959> <16e501c488cd$e17c4ef0$6402a8c0@remains> <41464674.4030401@epix.net> Message-ID: <41465A9B.5B9B@Tomaszewski.net> E. L. Jones wrote: > Flowing Lava is interesting to experiment with. It can also melt the > shoes on your feet and the M&Ms in your backpack, not in your hands... > Been there, done that, melted the t-shirt. Safety tip... When working with 'hot' stuff (electricity, lava, etc) wear cotton clothes, and leather shoes, because they don't melt, and won't stick to your skin, should undesirable events occur. From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Sep 13 19:56:23 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Sep 13 19:53:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 2 Famous Volcanos erupt within hours of each other References: <004401c4885c$7cbdd180$6402a8c0@remains> <047f01c488ca$985dc530$2a5d70d1@S0033035959> <16e501c488cd$e17c4ef0$6402a8c0@remains> <41464674.4030401@epix.net> <6.1.2.0.0.20040913164358.02fbe210@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <41465D27.1172@Tomaszewski.net> And for current status of Mauna Loa go to http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/maunaloa/current/main.html which is where I should have gone to first when I received the report. Thanks for the reminder Kitty! Kreigh Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > Sorry to correct you, Elton, but Mauna Loa did not erupt in the last 24 > hours. It last erupted in 1984, and has not done so since, > yet. Scientists think it may be "soon," but cannot give a close prediction. > > As for Kilauea, for history of its activity go to: > > http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/summary/ > > and, as I've posted several times before, for great pictures go to: > > http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/main.html also click on Image > Archive at the top for ones from the past. > > Aloha, Kitty From jonee at epix.net Tue Sep 14 03:01:14 2004 From: jonee at epix.net (E. L. Jones) Date: Tue Sep 14 03:00:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 2 Famous Volcanos erupt within hours of each other In-Reply-To: <41465D27.1172@Tomaszewski.net> References: <004401c4885c$7cbdd180$6402a8c0@remains> <047f01c488ca$985dc530$2a5d70d1@S0033035959> <16e501c488cd$e17c4ef0$6402a8c0@remains> <41464674.4030401@epix.net> <6.1.2.0.0.20040913164358.02fbe210@mail.aloha.net> <41465D27.1172@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <4146C16A.8090001@epix.net> Yeah well.... I guess I was excited to share and flat missed the details in all my dyslexia I didn't look close enough at the Headline "Mauna Loa Rumbles awake" I was also looking at the Headline :Lava Spews from Etna.... You go right ahead and keep me straight. I'll slip back into the dunce corner....again.. Regards, Elton Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >And for current status of Mauna Loa go to > > http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/maunaloa/current/main.html > >which is where I should have gone to first when I received the report. > >Thanks for the reminder Kitty! > >Kreigh > > > >Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > >>Sorry to correct you, Elton, but Mauna Loa did not erupt in the last 24 >>hours. It last erupted in 1984, and has not done so since, >>yet. Scientists think it may be "soon," but cannot give a close prediction. >> >>As for Kilauea, for history of its activity go to: >> >>http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/summary/ >> >>and, as I've posted several times before, for great pictures go to: >> >>http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/main.html also click on Image >>Archive at the top for ones from the past. >> >>Aloha, Kitty >> >> > > > From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Tue Sep 14 05:42:13 2004 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Tue Sep 14 05:37:33 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 2 Famous Volcanos erupt within hours of each other References: <004401c4885c$7cbdd180$6402a8c0@remains> <047f01c488ca$985dc530$2a5d70d1@S0033035959> <16e501c488cd$e17c4ef0$6402a8c0@remains> <41464674.4030401@epix.net> <41465025.70F9@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <001a01c49a58$443f1180$2b7ba118@feldsparflash> I the spelling is Mayon for the volcano in the Phillipines. sunstone3 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 10:00 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 2 Famous Volcanos erupt within hours of each other > Make that three...the Mayan volcano in the Philippines also erupted > > > http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,10756871%255e1702,00.html > > Kreigh > > > > > > E. L. Jones wrote: > > > > For those that like their rocks really fresh-- I mean REALLLLLLY fresh > > , and the end of the world cults, both Mauna Loa in Hawaii and Mt Etna > > in Sicily erupted within the last 24 hours. On the Big Island of > > Hawaii, Kilauea has been erupting continuously since 1983. Mauna Loa is > > the taller quieter one whos last eruption was in 1982 I believe, Etna > > has intermittent belches but have lava flows in the last couple years > > > > Flowing Lava is interesting to experiment with. It can also melt the > > shoes on your feet and the M&Ms in your backpack, not in your hands... > > Been there, done that, melted the t-shirt. > > > > Elton > > > > Aditional Stories at; > > Mauna Loa http://starbulletin.com/2004/09/13/news/story1.html > > > > Etna > > > > Mauna Loa rumbles awake > > > > A flurry of earthquakes persuades > > scientists the volcano could soon > > begin spewing lava > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > By Mary Vorsino > > mvorsino@starbulletin.com > > > > > > "Unprecedented" activity deep under Mauna Loa this summer could be > > another sign that the world's largest volcano is headed toward an > > eruption, a scientist says. > > > > Fast Facts: > > Mauna Loa > > > > ? World's largest volcano and among the most active. > > > > ? Rises gradually to 13,677 feet, more than 2 miles above sea level. > > > > ? Has erupted 33 times since 1843. > > > > ? Longest period between modern-day eruptions was 25 years, between 1950 > > and 1975. > > > > ? Last eruption was in 1984, when lava flowed for 22 days and came to > > within 5.3 miles of an upland part of Hilo. > > > > SOURCE: U.S. GEOLOGICAL SURVEY > > > > More than 350 earthquakes have been recorded since July. > > > > Such frequent, small earthquakes have never before been measured beneath > > Mauna Loa's summit caldera. Data on Mauna Loa's seismic activity started > > to be collected in the 1930s, and Hawaiian Volcano Observatory > > scientist-in-charge Donald Swanson said even the instruments of that era > > would have detected the quakes. > > > > "They're unprecedented," he said, "since we started studying Mauna Loa." > > > > Despite the quakes, Swanson emphasized that an eruption should not be > > expected within the next few weeks or even months. > > > > There is no good estimate on when the volcano could erupt. But before an > > eruption, scientists would probably see the volcano's swelling increase > > and detect stronger earthquakes nearer to the surface, he said. > > > > "What we're seeing now is just a prelude to an eruption," Swanson said. > > "It's a clear indication that the volcano is restless, but we've known > > that for more than two years because it started to inflate." > > > > In May 2002, after nearly 10 years of slight deflation, Mauna Loa's > > summit started to swell. Similar expansions had preceded Mauna Loa's > > past two eruptions, in 1984 and 1975. > > > > Swanson said the recent quakes have not increased in frequency since > > July, but rather fluctuated in number from "day to day and week to > > week," Swanson said. > > > > Last week, there were about 12 earthquakes recorded, he said. > > > > The quakes occur about 25 miles beneath the volcano's summit caldera and > > the adjacent part of the southwest rift. Their size and depth have > > stayed about the same, Swanson said. > > > > Mauna Loa, which reaches 13,677 feet high, last erupted 20 years ago. > > Lava from the eruption covered 16 miles in 22 days, stopping just 5.3 > > miles short of an upland part of Hilo. > > > > In modern history the longest period between eruptions has been 25 years > > (from 1950 to 1975). > > > > "Twenty-five years is the record," Swanson said. "We're within the > > length of time that ... we should be anticipating another." > > > > Despite the unusual earthquakes, Swanson said it is still too early to > > step up the observatory's monitoring activities. > > > > "We haven't seen any reason to do that. All of us are aware of what's > > happening. We sort of have a heightened awareness," he said, adding that > > the number of earthquakes recorded is "quite a large number, but it's > > not alarming." > > > > Swanson also said it would be premature to start planning an eruption's > > path because that is still unclear, too. > > > > "It's still quite subdued," he said, compared with what activity atop > > the volcano will be like when "we'll be thinking more carefully about > > what and where the eruption will be." > > > > Mauna Loa is among the planet's most active volcanoes, according to the > > Hawaiian Volcano Observatory. Since 1843 the volcano has erupted 33 times. > > > > One of Mauna Loa's neighbors on the Big Island, Kilauea, is also within > > Hawaii Volcanoes National Park and has been erupting continuously since > > Jan. 3, 1983. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > To read daily updates on Mauna Loa's activity, go to the Hawaiian > > Volcano Observatory's Web site at *hvo.wr.usgs.gov* > > . > > > > ? 2004 Honolulu Star-Bulletin -- http://starbulletin.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Lava Spews From Mount Etna on the Southern Italian Island of Sicily* > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > ITALY: September 13, 2004 > > > > *Lava and smoke rises from Mount Etna on the southern Italian island of > > Sicily on September 11, 2004.* > > > > A new fissure yawned open on the south eastern side of Sicily's Mount > > Etna volcano on Tuesday, oozing out enough lava to cross a city block, > > researchers said. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From kjvgorock at juno.com Tue Sep 14 07:43:49 2004 From: kjvgorock at juno.com (kjvgorock@juno.com) Date: Tue Sep 14 07:46:19 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD thumbnails on eBay Message-ID: <20040914.094349.3356.0.kjvgorock@juno.com> Hi all, Just wanted to let you know I have some fine thumbnail mineral specimens ending on eBay today. Thanks, Kenneth Vaisvil kv_goodrocks http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=kv_goo drocks ________________________________________________________________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Sep 14 16:21:23 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Sep 14 16:16:06 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 3 Famous Volcanos erupt within hours of each other References: <004401c4885c$7cbdd180$6402a8c0@remains> <047f01c488ca$985dc530$2a5d70d1@S0033035959> <16e501c488cd$e17c4ef0$6402a8c0@remains> <41464674.4030401@epix.net> <41465025.70F9@Tomaszewski.net> <001a01c49a58$443f1180$2b7ba118@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <41477BAC.56A5@Tomaszewski.net> You are correct, I can't spell (or type). And there was a third volcano that erupted in Japan http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=582916§ion=news Carolyn Reynard wrote: > > I the spelling is Mayon for the volcano in the Phillipines. > sunstone3 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 10:00 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 2 Famous Volcanos erupt within hours of each other > > > Make that three...the Mayan volcano in the Philippines also erupted > > > > > > > http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,10756871%255e1702,00.html > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > > > E. L. Jones wrote: > > > > > > For those that like their rocks really fresh-- I mean REALLLLLLY fresh > > > , and the end of the world cults, both Mauna Loa in Hawaii and Mt Etna > > > in Sicily erupted within the last 24 hours. On the Big Island of > > > Hawaii, Kilauea has been erupting continuously since 1983. Mauna Loa is > > > the taller quieter one whos last eruption was in 1982 I believe, Etna > > > has intermittent belches but have lava flows in the last couple years > > > > > > Flowing Lava is interesting to experiment with. It can also melt the > > > shoes on your feet and the M&Ms in your backpack, not in your hands... > > > Been there, done that, melted the t-shirt. > > > > > > Elton > > > > > > Aditional Stories at; > > > Mauna Loa http://starbulletin.com/2004/09/13/news/story1.html > > > > > > Etna > > > > > > Mauna Loa rumbles awake > > > > > > A flurry of earthquakes persuades > > > scientists the volcano could soon > > > begin spewing lava > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > By Mary Vorsino > > > mvorsino@starbulletin.com > > > > /> > > > > > > "Unprecedented" activity deep under Mauna Loa this summer could be > > > another sign that the world's largest volcano is headed toward an > > > eruption, a scientist says. > > > > > > Fast Facts: > > > Mauna Loa > > > > > > ? World's largest volcano and among the most active. > > > > > > ? Rises gradually to 13,677 feet, more than 2 miles above sea level. > > > > > > ? Has erupted 33 times since 1843. > > > > > > ? Longest period between modern-day eruptions was 25 years, between 1950 > > > and 1975. > > > > > > ? Last eruption was in 1984, when lava flowed for 22 days and came to > > > within 5.3 miles of an upland part of Hilo. > > > > > > SOURCE: U.S. GEOLOGICAL SURVEY > > > > > > More than 350 earthquakes have been recorded since July. > > > > > > Such frequent, small earthquakes have never before been measured beneath > > > Mauna Loa's summit caldera. Data on Mauna Loa's seismic activity started > > > to be collected in the 1930s, and Hawaiian Volcano Observatory > > > scientist-in-charge Donald Swanson said even the instruments of that era > > > would have detected the quakes. > > > > > > "They're unprecedented," he said, "since we started studying Mauna Loa." > > > > > > Despite the quakes, Swanson emphasized that an eruption should not be > > > expected within the next few weeks or even months. > > > > > > There is no good estimate on when the volcano could erupt. But before an > > > eruption, scientists would probably see the volcano's swelling increase > > > and detect stronger earthquakes nearer to the surface, he said. > > > > > > "What we're seeing now is just a prelude to an eruption," Swanson said. > > > "It's a clear indication that the volcano is restless, but we've known > > > that for more than two years because it started to inflate." > > > > > > In May 2002, after nearly 10 years of slight deflation, Mauna Loa's > > > summit started to swell. Similar expansions had preceded Mauna Loa's > > > past two eruptions, in 1984 and 1975. > > > > > > Swanson said the recent quakes have not increased in frequency since > > > July, but rather fluctuated in number from "day to day and week to > > > week," Swanson said. > > > > > > Last week, there were about 12 earthquakes recorded, he said. > > > > > > The quakes occur about 25 miles beneath the volcano's summit caldera and > > > the adjacent part of the southwest rift. Their size and depth have > > > stayed about the same, Swanson said. > > > > > > Mauna Loa, which reaches 13,677 feet high, last erupted 20 years ago. > > > Lava from the eruption covered 16 miles in 22 days, stopping just 5.3 > > > miles short of an upland part of Hilo. > > > > > > In modern history the longest period between eruptions has been 25 years > > > (from 1950 to 1975). > > > > > > "Twenty-five years is the record," Swanson said. "We're within the > > > length of time that ... we should be anticipating another." > > > > > > Despite the unusual earthquakes, Swanson said it is still too early to > > > step up the observatory's monitoring activities. > > > > > > "We haven't seen any reason to do that. All of us are aware of what's > > > happening. We sort of have a heightened awareness," he said, adding that > > > the number of earthquakes recorded is "quite a large number, but it's > > > not alarming." > > > > > > Swanson also said it would be premature to start planning an eruption's > > > path because that is still unclear, too. > > > > > > "It's still quite subdued," he said, compared with what activity atop > > > the volcano will be like when "we'll be thinking more carefully about > > > what and where the eruption will be." > > > > > > Mauna Loa is among the planet's most active volcanoes, according to the > > > Hawaiian Volcano Observatory. Since 1843 the volcano has erupted 33 > times. > > > > > > One of Mauna Loa's neighbors on the Big Island, Kilauea, is also within > > > Hawaii Volcanoes National Park and has been erupting continuously since > > > Jan. 3, 1983. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > To read daily updates on Mauna Loa's activity, go to the Hawaiian > > > Volcano Observatory's Web site at *hvo.wr.usgs.gov* > > > . > > > > > > ? 2004 Honolulu Star-Bulletin -- http://starbulletin.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Lava Spews From Mount Etna on the Southern Italian Island of Sicily* > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > ITALY: September 13, 2004 > > > > > > *Lava and smoke rises from Mount Etna on the southern Italian island of > > > Sicily on September 11, 2004.* > > > > > > A new fissure yawned open on the south eastern side of Sicily's Mount > > > Etna volcano on Tuesday, oozing out enough lava to cross a city block, > > > researchers said. > > > From mojgerstner at sbcglobal.net Tue Sep 14 16:57:56 2004 From: mojgerstner at sbcglobal.net (JOHN GERSTNER) Date: Tue Sep 14 16:57:57 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mines and Crystals Message-ID: <20040914235756.18629.qmail@web81006.mail.yahoo.com> I live just outside of St. louis Mo and have been to a few rock shows in the area. I've seen crystals that came from various mines from this area, Sweetwater mine being one of them. I was wondering how people obtain these crystals from these mines? Is it a matter of knowing some miners working there who are kind enough to obtain them for you during their work day? Thanks in advance! Cedarhill_rockhound --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Sep 14 18:47:41 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Sep 14 18:42:06 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mines and Crystals References: <20040914235756.18629.qmail@web81006.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <41479DE3.5B8@Tomaszewski.net> As the years have gone by it has become increasingly difficult to get access to mines. Some mines actually mine specimens and sell them to dealers because they have discovered it is profitable. Some mines sell their raw or better 'mine run' to dealers who extract the specimens and sell them. Some mines allow clubs to arrange field trips for collecting, but this is more often on the mine dumps instead of in the actual mine. Some mines allow individual collectors to access their dumps. Taking a mine safety course is often a requirement, and clubs occasionally offer these classes. You usually have a better chance getting access via a club than as an individual. A few mines allow collectors 'fee' access so they can mine their own specimens, but this is more often access to mine run dumps than in the mine itself. Most mines prohibit the miners from collecting as it is considered to be stealing (the mine owner is not compensated) and takes away from their productivity (that the mine owner is paying for). A few mines allow the miners to set aside better specimens that the mine then sells, with part of the cash going back to the miner. And with some mines, the only specimens that ever surface have been smuggled out by miners. You can always contact a mine and inquire about access. The worst that will happen is they say no. And if enough collectors ask enough times they might figure out a way to make money from it and work something out. It never hurts to ask. Kreigh JOHN GERSTNER wrote: > > I live just outside of St. louis Mo and have been to a few rock shows in the area. I've seen crystals that came from various mines from this area, Sweetwater mine being one of them. I was wondering how people obtain these crystals from these mines? Is it a matter of knowing some miners working there who are kind enough to obtain them for you during their work day? > Thanks in advance! > > Cedarhill_rockhound > From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Tue Sep 14 19:11:29 2004 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Tue Sep 14 19:06:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 3 Famous Volcanos erupt within hours of each other References: <004401c4885c$7cbdd180$6402a8c0@remains> <047f01c488ca$985dc530$2a5d70d1@S0033035959> <16e501c488cd$e17c4ef0$6402a8c0@remains> <41464674.4030401@epix.net> <41465025.70F9@Tomaszewski.net> <001a01c49a58$443f1180$2b7ba118@feldsparflash> <41477BAC.56A5@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <004601c49ac9$51ece480$2b7ba118@feldsparflash> Thanks Kreigh for all the news sources on recent volcanic eruptions I am forwarding them on to a student teacher friend teaching sixth grade earth science. sunstone ---- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 7:21 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 3 Famous Volcanos erupt within hours of each other > You are correct, I can't spell (or type). And there was a third volcano > that erupted in Japan > > > http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=582916§ion=news > > > > > Carolyn Reynard wrote: > > > > I the spelling is Mayon for the volcano in the Phillipines. > > sunstone3 > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 10:00 PM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 2 Famous Volcanos erupt within hours of each other > > > > > Make that three...the Mayan volcano in the Philippines also erupted > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,10756871%255e1702,00.html > > > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > E. L. Jones wrote: > > > > > > > > For those that like their rocks really fresh-- I mean REALLLLLLY fresh > > > > , and the end of the world cults, both Mauna Loa in Hawaii and Mt Etna > > > > in Sicily erupted within the last 24 hours. On the Big Island of > > > > Hawaii, Kilauea has been erupting continuously since 1983. Mauna Loa is > > > > the taller quieter one whos last eruption was in 1982 I believe, Etna > > > > has intermittent belches but have lava flows in the last couple years > > > > > > > > Flowing Lava is interesting to experiment with. It can also melt the > > > > shoes on your feet and the M&Ms in your backpack, not in your hands... > > > > Been there, done that, melted the t-shirt. > > > > > > > > Elton > > > > > > > > Aditional Stories at; > > > > Mauna Loa http://starbulletin.com/2004/09/13/news/story1.html > > > > > > > > Etna > > > > > > > > Mauna Loa rumbles awake > > > > > > > > A flurry of earthquakes persuades > > > > scientists the volcano could soon > > > > begin spewing lava > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > By Mary Vorsino > > > > mvorsino@starbulletin.com > > > > > > > /> > > > > > > > > "Unprecedented" activity deep under Mauna Loa this summer could be > > > > another sign that the world's largest volcano is headed toward an > > > > eruption, a scientist says. > > > > > > > > Fast Facts: > > > > Mauna Loa > > > > > > > > ? World's largest volcano and among the most active. > > > > > > > > ? Rises gradually to 13,677 feet, more than 2 miles above sea level. > > > > > > > > ? Has erupted 33 times since 1843. > > > > > > > > ? Longest period between modern-day eruptions was 25 years, between 1950 > > > > and 1975. > > > > > > > > ? Last eruption was in 1984, when lava flowed for 22 days and came to > > > > within 5.3 miles of an upland part of Hilo. > > > > > > > > SOURCE: U.S. GEOLOGICAL SURVEY > > > > > > > > More than 350 earthquakes have been recorded since July. > > > > > > > > Such frequent, small earthquakes have never before been measured beneath > > > > Mauna Loa's summit caldera. Data on Mauna Loa's seismic activity started > > > > to be collected in the 1930s, and Hawaiian Volcano Observatory > > > > scientist-in-charge Donald Swanson said even the instruments of that era > > > > would have detected the quakes. > > > > > > > > "They're unprecedented," he said, "since we started studying Mauna Loa." > > > > > > > > Despite the quakes, Swanson emphasized that an eruption should not be > > > > expected within the next few weeks or even months. > > > > > > > > There is no good estimate on when the volcano could erupt. But before an > > > > eruption, scientists would probably see the volcano's swelling increase > > > > and detect stronger earthquakes nearer to the surface, he said. > > > > > > > > "What we're seeing now is just a prelude to an eruption," Swanson said. > > > > "It's a clear indication that the volcano is restless, but we've known > > > > that for more than two years because it started to inflate." > > > > > > > > In May 2002, after nearly 10 years of slight deflation, Mauna Loa's > > > > summit started to swell. Similar expansions had preceded Mauna Loa's > > > > past two eruptions, in 1984 and 1975. > > > > > > > > Swanson said the recent quakes have not increased in frequency since > > > > July, but rather fluctuated in number from "day to day and week to > > > > week," Swanson said. > > > > > > > > Last week, there were about 12 earthquakes recorded, he said. > > > > > > > > The quakes occur about 25 miles beneath the volcano's summit caldera and > > > > the adjacent part of the southwest rift. Their size and depth have > > > > stayed about the same, Swanson said. > > > > > > > > Mauna Loa, which reaches 13,677 feet high, last erupted 20 years ago. > > > > Lava from the eruption covered 16 miles in 22 days, stopping just 5.3 > > > > miles short of an upland part of Hilo. > > > > > > > > In modern history the longest period between eruptions has been 25 years > > > > (from 1950 to 1975). > > > > > > > > "Twenty-five years is the record," Swanson said. "We're within the > > > > length of time that ... we should be anticipating another." > > > > > > > > Despite the unusual earthquakes, Swanson said it is still too early to > > > > step up the observatory's monitoring activities. > > > > > > > > "We haven't seen any reason to do that. All of us are aware of what's > > > > happening. We sort of have a heightened awareness," he said, adding that > > > > the number of earthquakes recorded is "quite a large number, but it's > > > > not alarming." > > > > > > > > Swanson also said it would be premature to start planning an eruption's > > > > path because that is still unclear, too. > > > > > > > > "It's still quite subdued," he said, compared with what activity atop > > > > the volcano will be like when "we'll be thinking more carefully about > > > > what and where the eruption will be." > > > > > > > > Mauna Loa is among the planet's most active volcanoes, according to the > > > > Hawaiian Volcano Observatory. Since 1843 the volcano has erupted 33 > > times. > > > > > > > > One of Mauna Loa's neighbors on the Big Island, Kilauea, is also within > > > > Hawaii Volcanoes National Park and has been erupting continuously since > > > > Jan. 3, 1983. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > To read daily updates on Mauna Loa's activity, go to the Hawaiian > > > > Volcano Observatory's Web site at *hvo.wr.usgs.gov* > > > > . > > > > > > > > ? 2004 Honolulu Star-Bulletin -- http://starbulletin.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Lava Spews From Mount Etna on the Southern Italian Island of Sicily* > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > ITALY: September 13, 2004 > > > > > > > > *Lava and smoke rises from Mount Etna on the southern Italian island of > > > > Sicily on September 11, 2004.* > > > > > > > > A new fissure yawned open on the south eastern side of Sicily's Mount > > > > Etna volcano on Tuesday, oozing out enough lava to cross a city block, > > > > researchers said. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Sep 14 20:11:03 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Sep 14 20:05:15 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 3 Famous Volcanos erupt within hours of each other References: <004401c4885c$7cbdd180$6402a8c0@remains> <047f01c488ca$985dc530$2a5d70d1@S0033035959> <16e501c488cd$e17c4ef0$6402a8c0@remains> <41464674.4030401@epix.net> <41465025.70F9@Tomaszewski.net> <001a01c49a58$443f1180$2b7ba118@feldsparflash> <41477BAC.56A5@Tomaszewski.net> <004601c49ac9$51ece480$2b7ba118@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <4147B162.6AB@Tomaszewski.net> Carolyn, Two other volcano resources you don't want to miss are Volcano World http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vw.html USGS http://volcanoes.usgs.gov And thanks for letting me know the links are going to the best possible use, educating kids about our world. Kreigh Carolyn Reynard wrote: > > Thanks Kreigh for all the news sources on recent volcanic eruptions I am > forwarding them on to a student teacher friend teaching sixth grade earth > science. sunstone From MCGINNISG at aol.com Tue Sep 14 21:15:48 2004 From: MCGINNISG at aol.com (MCGINNISG@aol.com) Date: Tue Sep 14 21:15:52 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Utah Ice Message-ID: <1dc.2bdb4de2.2e791bf4@aol.com> I have seen some exceptionally clear selenite listed on eBay as "Utah Ice" can anyone furnish more information as to where this "Utah Ice" is found? Thank you --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Lapadary at aol.com Tue Sep 14 21:40:32 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Tue Sep 14 21:40:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Utah Ice Message-ID: <1e3.2abc3cee.2e7921c0@aol.com> In a message dated 9/14/04 9:16:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, MCGINNISG@aol.com writes: I have seen some exceptionally clear selenite listed on eBay as "Utah Ice" can anyone furnish more information as to where this "Utah Ice" is found? I Googled this. Maybe you don't want any Utah Ice? Grant At the end of 1997, resolution is pending in another case on theft charges of selenite crystals by professional mineral dealers caught excavating specimens in Capitol Reef National Park (Utah). The value of the stolen crystals and damage to the earthen mound collection site, which contain highly sought-after clear ?Utah Ice? crystals, is documented in a mineral appraisal that will be used in legal restitution of the case. Hopefully, there is a legal collecting site. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Wed Sep 15 05:30:56 2004 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Wed Sep 15 05:26:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 3 Famous Volcanos erupt within hours of each other References: <004401c4885c$7cbdd180$6402a8c0@remains> <047f01c488ca$985dc530$2a5d70d1@S0033035959> <16e501c488cd$e17c4ef0$6402a8c0@remains> <41464674.4030401@epix.net> <41465025.70F9@Tomaszewski.net> <001a01c49a58$443f1180$2b7ba118@feldsparflash> <41477BAC.56A5@Tomaszewski.net> <004601c49ac9$51ece480$2b7ba118@feldsparflash> <4147B162.6AB@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <001201c49b1f$db111dc0$2b7ba118@feldsparflash> Thank you Kreigh, The North Dakota Web Site's photographs of the world's volcanos certainly will fire the minds of the sixth graders. It is a must see and study for rockhounds interested in volcanos. Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 11:11 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 3 Famous Volcanos erupt within hours of each other > Carolyn, > > Two other volcano resources you don't want to miss are > > Volcano World > http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vw.html > > USGS > http://volcanoes.usgs.gov > > And thanks for letting me know the links are going to the best possible > use, educating kids about our world. > > Kreigh > > > > > Carolyn Reynard wrote: > > > > Thanks Kreigh for all the news sources on recent volcanic eruptions I am > > forwarding them on to a student teacher friend teaching sixth grade earth > > science. sunstone > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From mikeflan at earthlink.net Wed Sep 15 05:55:52 2004 From: mikeflan at earthlink.net (Mike Flannigan) Date: Wed Sep 15 05:54:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mines and Crystals References: <200409150101.i8F117wg030205@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <41483BD8.B731D097@earthlink.net> If you are talking about the Sweetwater mine near Joplin, maybe they obtained it from the tailings pile. Mike > Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 16:57:56 -0700 (PDT) > From: JOHN GERSTNER > Subject: [Rockhounds] Mines and Crystals > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Message-ID: <20040914235756.18629.qmail@web81006.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I live just outside of St. louis Mo and have been to a few rock shows in the area. I've seen crystals that came from various mines from this area, Sweetwater mine being one of them. I was wondering how people obtain these crystals from these mines? Is it a matter of knowing some miners working there who are kind enough to obtain them for you during their work day? > Thanks in advance! > > Cedarhill_rockhound From rpr at nike.heidelberg.edu Wed Sep 15 06:27:08 2004 From: rpr at nike.heidelberg.edu (Pete Richards) Date: Wed Sep 15 06:27:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease Message-ID: I remember reading a rather detailed description of some hazards of treating specimens with Waller solution (sodium citrate, sodium dithionite, sodium bicarbonate). Hopefully it was on this list and/or somebody on the list can point me to it. Waller solution is used to remove iron oxides from specimens under conditions of neutral pH, and while it can damage some specimens (for example, it will also remove calcium from some minerals), it is generally a relatively gentle and often quite effective treatment for iron oxide discoloration. Recently I had a different experience, however. I am fighting to save (or extend the life of) a pyrite/marcasite specimen afflicted with "pyrite disease". It was starting to crack, and efflorescences of iron sulfate (presumably) were apparent in spots. I soaked it with many changes of water to remove the oxidation products, but toward the end of this process I wound up with a coating of iron oxide in some places. Ah, Waller solution, I thought. In it went, and things were going fine. After an hour or so, most of the rust was gone. I decided to let it soak overnight. In the morning, I opened the sealed jar, and noticed a decided odor of hydrogen sulfide (rotten eggs). On parts of the specimen were new deposits of black color, which I presume are iron sulfide (FeS). There were a lot of sulfur compounds throwing their ions around in that solution. Any astute chemist want to explain what was going on? Is this experience a general warning against using Waller solution on sulfides? Or just on ones with pyrite disease?! Pete Richards -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh From LarryRush at worldnet.att.net Wed Sep 15 07:04:30 2004 From: LarryRush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Wed Sep 15 07:07:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mines and Crystals References: <20040914235756.18629.qmail@web81006.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002a01c49b2c$ed47f9c0$7c8c4c0c@fekib> John: You might want to visit the Red Rooster mineral shop in Rolla. The owner, Larry Nuelle, is a geologist who works for the Doe Run Company and is well acquainted with the Sweetwater material, and also has lots to sell in his shop. Larry Rush ----- Original Message ----- From: JOHN GERSTNER To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 7:57 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Mines and Crystals I live just outside of St. louis Mo and have been to a few rock shows in the area. I've seen crystals that came from various mines from this area, Sweetwater mine being one of them. I was wondering how people obtain these crystals from these mines? Is it a matter of knowing some miners working there who are kind enough to obtain them for you during their work day? Thanks in advance! Cedarhill_rockhound --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kadok at infowest.com Wed Sep 15 07:21:35 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Wed Sep 15 07:21:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Utah Ice In-Reply-To: <1e3.2abc3cee.2e7921c0@aol.com> Message-ID: <20040915142135.87133EAB1D1@delivery.infowest.com> -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Lapadary@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:41 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Utah Ice In a message dated 9/14/04 9:16:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, MCGINNISG@aol.com writes: < Hi All, A local jeweler has an order for a Parti Sapphire, does anyone on the list know where to acquire such a critter? Any assistance will be appreciated. Thanks, Dave Phillips Sunset Fossils & Minerals Morgantown, WV _WVFossils@aol.com_ (mailto:WVFossils@aol.com) _Betdav97@aol.com_ (mailto:Betdav97@aol.com) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From hbarwood at troyst.edu Wed Sep 15 08:05:51 2004 From: hbarwood at troyst.edu (Henry Barwood) Date: Wed Sep 15 08:02:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Pete, What probably happened is that the dithionite reduced the Fe sulfates taken into solution. You likely got a coating of poorly crystallized mixed iron sulfides (can't remember the names, but they are the ones that form in estuaries, etc.). This is a reaction that occurs slowly, and it was the extended soak that likely caused problems. Having said that, you may have to live with the results, or let the pyrite disease reform and try again. Henry -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Pete Richards Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 8:27 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease I remember reading a rather detailed description of some hazards of treating specimens with Waller solution (sodium citrate, sodium dithionite, sodium bicarbonate). Hopefully it was on this list and/or somebody on the list can point me to it. Waller solution is used to remove iron oxides from specimens under conditions of neutral pH, and while it can damage some specimens (for example, it will also remove calcium from some minerals), it is generally a relatively gentle and often quite effective treatment for iron oxide discoloration. Recently I had a different experience, however. I am fighting to save (or extend the life of) a pyrite/marcasite specimen afflicted with "pyrite disease". It was starting to crack, and efflorescences of iron sulfate (presumably) were apparent in spots. I soaked it with many changes of water to remove the oxidation products, but toward the end of this process I wound up with a coating of iron oxide in some places. Ah, Waller solution, I thought. In it went, and things were going fine. After an hour or so, most of the rust was gone. I decided to let it soak overnight. In the morning, I opened the sealed jar, and noticed a decided odor of hydrogen sulfide (rotten eggs). On parts of the specimen were new deposits of black color, which I presume are iron sulfide (FeS). There were a lot of sulfur compounds throwing their ions around in that solution. Any astute chemist want to explain what was going on? Is this experience a general warning against using Waller solution on sulfides? Or just on ones with pyrite disease?! Pete Richards -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From dri.anna at verizon.net Wed Sep 15 08:03:57 2004 From: dri.anna at verizon.net (Dri) Date: Wed Sep 15 08:04:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inland SwapTop 6 1/2" Trim Saw Message-ID: <003101c49b35$3a590120$6701a8c0@dslverizon.net> Hi Y'All: I do not post very often, instead, find myself soaking up knowledge as I read each and every post. Now, I find I need your opinions. We are looking to purchase our first Trim Saw and I would like input from y'all on reputation and reliability of the Lapidary equipment from Inland Craft Products Co. What are considering purchasing is: SwapTopT 6 1/2" Trim Saw Includes: Motor unit, base, table housing with metal table insert, 6?" Diamond Coated Blade, blade guard, blade arbor, fence, and instruction guide. a.. Size: 12" wide x 10" deep x 6.75" high b.. Motor Type: Permanent Magnet DC c.. Motor Torque: 31 oz-in (.213 N/M) d.. Motor RPM: 2800 e.. Arbor OD: .500" f.. Fits 6" and 6?" blades g.. Warranty: Two Year Full Confidence Warranty They have a deal on right now through eBay where we can purchase this saw with the optional coolant resivore included at no additional charge. The URL for the Inland Website is: http://www.inlandlapidary.com/singleproduct.asp?search=Lapidary+Saws&partnum=10670 Your valued/experienced opinions and comments are desired before we make this purchase. Hugs Dri-Anna WA - USA Home Page: http://twospirit.net/index.html.htm http://www.twospirit.net/MyHobbyAfricanVioletCollectionP1.htm --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dmschmidt at sprint.ca Wed Sep 15 07:58:11 2004 From: dmschmidt at sprint.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Wed Sep 15 08:09:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Parti Sapphire References: Message-ID: <003d01c49b34$6b61e940$6402a8c0@remains> a parti sapphire is simply a bicolour or tricolour sapphire..... what do you need? I can supply you with a number of stones. find out what the customer (and your jeweller) want to spend, what colours they would like (usually bicolours are green/yellow or blue/yellow...although I recently sold a very unique one that was violet/blue/violet) and what size and cut they want. we can go from there Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 8:29 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Parti Sapphire > Hi All, > A local jeweler has an order for a Parti Sapphire, does anyone on > the list know where to acquire such a critter? Any assistance will be > appreciated. Thanks, > Dave Phillips > Sunset Fossils & Minerals > Morgantown, WV > _WVFossils@aol.com_ (mailto:WVFossils@aol.com) > _Betdav97@aol.com_ (mailto:Betdav97@aol.com) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kjvgorock at juno.com Wed Sep 15 08:26:46 2004 From: kjvgorock at juno.com (kjvgorock@juno.com) Date: Wed Sep 15 08:28:36 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Wolf Creek Pass Geodes Message-ID: <20040915.102646.1324.2.kjvgorock@juno.com> Hi all, I'm a geode collector and would like to trade with someone for a nice geode from the Wolf Creek Pass area in Colorado. I've seen the write ups describing small light amethyst lined geodes from that area, even attempted to collect there in my early rockhound years & never found any. I'd be willing to trade some fine Keokuk type geodes for one. Please email me off list if you are interested. Thanks, Kenneth Vaisvil kjvgorock@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! From BETDAV97 at aol.com Wed Sep 15 08:32:04 2004 From: BETDAV97 at aol.com (BETDAV97@aol.com) Date: Wed Sep 15 08:37:49 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Utah Ice Message-ID: Hi, I've done two Google searches and can't find the info on the theft. Please send url, if you have it. I have a nice crystal from Utah, that came from some Gulch, I've lost the label, and I am trying to locate where it came from. Thanks, Dave --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From morningstar at att.net Wed Sep 15 08:40:54 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Wed Sep 15 08:42:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease Message-ID: <091520041540.25403.414862860000AED20000633B21602807419D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Hi guys, Sounds like melanterite is involved--is the white efflorescent material water soluble? I have used compounds similar to sodium dithionite, Na2S2O4, and they have evolved a "rotten egg" smell during use. A tip about H2S: the olfactory detecability threshold is very low; when you smell it, the concentration is rather low. However, your olfactory sense numbs to H2S as you continue to breathe it, so it's when you *don't* smell it that you're in the biggest trouble. A concentration of 300 ppm represents an immediate danger to life and health (IDLH)--not as bad as HCN (cyanide), ozone, and hydrogen fluoride--but certainly worthy of the highest respect. Deadly Don > Hi Pete, > > What probably happened is that the dithionite reduced the Fe sulfates taken > into solution. You likely got a coating of poorly crystallized mixed iron > sulfides (can't remember the names, but they are the ones that form in > estuaries, etc.). This is a reaction that occurs slowly, and it was the > extended soak that likely caused problems. Having said that, you may have to > live with the results, or let the pyrite disease reform and try again. > > Henry > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Pete Richards > Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 8:27 AM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease > > > I remember reading a rather detailed description of some hazards of treating > specimens with Waller solution (sodium citrate, sodium dithionite, sodium > bicarbonate). Hopefully it was on this list and/or somebody on the list can > point me to it. > > Waller solution is used to remove iron oxides from specimens under > conditions of neutral pH, and while it can damage some specimens (for > example, it will also remove calcium from some minerals), it is generally a > relatively gentle and often quite effective treatment for iron oxide > discoloration. Recently I had a different experience, however. > > I am fighting to save (or extend the life of) a pyrite/marcasite specimen > afflicted with "pyrite disease". It was starting to crack, and > efflorescences of iron sulfate (presumably) were apparent in spots. I > soaked it with many changes of water to remove the oxidation products, but > toward the end of this process I wound up with a coating of iron oxide in > some places. Ah, Waller solution, I thought. > > In it went, and things were going fine. After an hour or so, most of the > rust was gone. I decided to let it soak overnight. In the morning, I > opened the sealed jar, and noticed a decided odor of hydrogen sulfide > (rotten eggs). On parts of the specimen were new deposits of black color, > which I presume are iron sulfide (FeS). > > There were a lot of sulfur compounds throwing their ions around in that > solution. Any astute chemist want to explain what was going on? Is this > experience a general warning against using Waller solution on sulfides? Or > just on ones with pyrite disease?! > > Pete Richards > -- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > R. Peter Richards > rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu > > Mineral collector > Crystallographer > SHAPE for the Macintosh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Gslrocks at aol.com Wed Sep 15 09:48:34 2004 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Wed Sep 15 09:48:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Utah Ice Message-ID: <1e9.2a8ee52a.2e79cc62@aol.com> Feller stone in Utah has been selling this material to the pet industry for 20 years. The only problem is if it it put into an aquarium it disssolves leaving the water hardened. Greg Lesinski GSLROCKS 4726 Porter Center Rd. Lewiston NY 14092 Fluorescent minerals, ultraviolet lamps and reference books website www.gslrocks.com GSLROCKS@AOL.COM 716-754-9729 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dmschmidt at sprint.ca Wed Sep 15 12:48:33 2004 From: dmschmidt at sprint.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Wed Sep 15 12:59:31 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Utah Ice References: Message-ID: <004701c49b5c$fbbef9b0$6402a8c0@remains> http://www.transcriptbulletin.com/archives/4.11.00/mining.html http://www.transcriptbulletin.com/archives/5.2.00/mining.html http://www2.nature.nps.gov/YearinReview/yr_rvw97/chapter06/chapter06_a03.html ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Utah Ice > Hi, > I've done two Google searches and can't find the info on the theft. > Please send url, if you have it. I have a nice crystal from Utah, that > came from some Gulch, I've lost the label, and I am trying to locate > where it came from. Thanks, > Dave > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Lapadary at aol.com Wed Sep 15 12:59:59 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Wed Sep 15 13:00:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Utah Ice Message-ID: <1d0.2b2815a7.2e79f93f@aol.com> In a message dated 9/15/04 12:51:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time, BETDAV97@aol.com writes: Hi, I've done two Google searches and can't find the info on the theft. Please send url, if you have it. I have a nice crystal from Utah, that came from some Gulch, I've lost the label, and I am trying to locate where it came from. Thanks, Dave ------------------------------ GOOGLE - "utah ice" selenite - AND THE 4TH HIT IS 'Chapter 6' I don't know what that is but there must be Chapters 1 5 also. Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From LarryRush at worldnet.att.net Wed Sep 15 13:06:43 2004 From: LarryRush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Wed Sep 15 13:09:19 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mines and Crystals References: <20040914235756.18629.qmail@web81006.mail.yahoo.com> <002a01c49b2c$ed47f9c0$7c8c4c0c@fekib> Message-ID: <001501c49b5f$86ea0aa0$43884c0c@fekib> Sorry, that may be "The Brass Rooster", mineral shop; I disremember................. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lawrence Rush To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mines and Crystals John: You might want to visit the Red Rooster mineral shop in Rolla. The owner, Larry Nuelle, is a geologist who works for the Doe Run Company and is well acquainted with the Sweetwater material, and also has lots to sell in his shop. Larry Rush ----- Original Message ----- From: JOHN GERSTNER To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 7:57 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Mines and Crystals I live just outside of St. louis Mo and have been to a few rock shows in the area. I've seen crystals that came from various mines from this area, Sweetwater mine being one of them. I was wondering how people obtain these crystals from these mines? Is it a matter of knowing some miners working there who are kind enough to obtain them for you during their work day? Thanks in advance! Cedarhill_rockhound --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov Wed Sep 15 13:50:19 2004 From: rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov (Richard Trapp) Date: Wed Sep 15 13:50:15 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mines and Crystals In-Reply-To: <001501c49b5f$86ea0aa0$43884c0c@fekib> References: <20040914235756.18629.qmail@web81006.mail.yahoo.com> <002a01c49b2c$ed47f9c0$7c8c4c0c@fekib> <001501c49b5f$86ea0aa0$43884c0c@fekib> Message-ID: <4148AB0B.3020509@azgs.az.gov> Brass Rooster is correct and as long as we're doing corrections (from another message - ) Joplin is in SW Missouri and the Sweetwater Mine is at the southern end of the Viburnum trend in SE Missouri... Lawrence Rush wrote: >Sorry, that may be "The Brass Rooster", mineral shop; I disremember................. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lawrence Rush > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 10:04 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mines and Crystals > > > John: You might want to visit the Red Rooster mineral shop in Rolla. The owner, Larry Nuelle, is a geologist who works for the Doe Run Company and is well acquainted with the Sweetwater material, and also has lots to sell in his shop. > Larry Rush > ----- Original Message ----- > From: JOHN GERSTNER > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 7:57 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Mines and Crystals > > > I live just outside of St. louis Mo and have been to a few rock shows in the area. I've seen crystals that came from various mines from this area, Sweetwater mine being one of them. I was wondering how people obtain these crystals from these mines? Is it a matter of knowing some miners working there who are kind enough to obtain them for you during their work day? > Thanks in advance! > > Cedarhill_rockhound > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > -- Rick Trapp Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at aloha.net Wed Sep 15 14:56:36 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Sep 15 14:29:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re Utah Ice-- word lovers In-Reply-To: <004701c49b5c$fbbef9b0$6402a8c0@remains> References: <004701c49b5c$fbbef9b0$6402a8c0@remains> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040915114705.02eb2700@mail.aloha.net> At 09:48 AM 9/15/2004, Michael Schmidt wrote: >..... >http://www2.nature.nps.gov/YearinReview/yr_rvw97/chapter06/chapter06_a03.html In the article above is a wonderful word: FLOCCINAUCINHILIPILIFICATION * I love it! Say that three times really fast! Actually, just try to say it at all! Thanks for sharing that and the other URLs, Michael. Aloha, Kitty *Floccinaucinhilipilification means the "estimation of something as valueless" and is often used as an argument by the defense counsel to reduce the charges for destruction of mineral resources such as cave speleothems like gypsum crystals, calcite stalactites, and stalagmites to a misdemeanor and small fine. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From murowchickj at umkc.edu Wed Sep 15 14:58:17 2004 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (J B Murowchick) Date: Wed Sep 15 14:58:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Pete- I concur with Henry's explanation. The only thing I'd add is that if the black stains are indeed new deposition of Fe-S phases like amorphous FeS, mackinawite or greigite, they may be very soluble in even fairly dilute HCl. I would try wiping them with a cotton swab moistened with a little dilute HCl (say, 1M) if you don't want to immerse the specimen. 10% HCl might work, too, but not as quickly as a stronger solution. I routinely cleaned mackinawite off an iron electrode by dipping it in conc. HCl, and the black film disappeared instantly. I then dipped the electrode in clean water, then in acetone to dry it quickly. Jim Murowchick __________________________________________________________ Dr. James B. Murowchick Associate Professor Office: (816) 235-2979 Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall Fax: (816) 235-5535 University of Missouri-Kansas City E-mail: murowchickj@umkc.edu 5110 Rockhill Road Kansas City, MO 64110 on 9/15/04 10:05 AM, Henry Barwood at hbarwood@troyst.edu wrote: > Hi Pete, > > What probably happened is that the dithionite reduced the Fe sulfates taken > into solution. You likely got a coating of poorly crystallized mixed iron > sulfides (can't remember the names, but they are the ones that form in > estuaries, etc.). This is a reaction that occurs slowly, and it was the > extended soak that likely caused problems. Having said that, you may have to > live with the results, or let the pyrite disease reform and try again. > > Henry > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Pete Richards > Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 8:27 AM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease > > > I remember reading a rather detailed description of some hazards of treating > specimens with Waller solution (sodium citrate, sodium dithionite, sodium > bicarbonate). Hopefully it was on this list and/or somebody on the list can > point me to it. > > Waller solution is used to remove iron oxides from specimens under > conditions of neutral pH, and while it can damage some specimens (for > example, it will also remove calcium from some minerals), it is generally a > relatively gentle and often quite effective treatment for iron oxide > discoloration. Recently I had a different experience, however. > > I am fighting to save (or extend the life of) a pyrite/marcasite specimen > afflicted with "pyrite disease". It was starting to crack, and > efflorescences of iron sulfate (presumably) were apparent in spots. I > soaked it with many changes of water to remove the oxidation products, but > toward the end of this process I wound up with a coating of iron oxide in > some places. Ah, Waller solution, I thought. > > In it went, and things were going fine. After an hour or so, most of the > rust was gone. I decided to let it soak overnight. In the morning, I > opened the sealed jar, and noticed a decided odor of hydrogen sulfide > (rotten eggs). On parts of the specimen were new deposits of black color, > which I presume are iron sulfide (FeS). > > There were a lot of sulfur compounds throwing their ions around in that > solution. Any astute chemist want to explain what was going on? Is this > experience a general warning against using Waller solution on sulfides? Or > just on ones with pyrite disease?! > > Pete Richards > -- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > R. Peter Richards > rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu > > Mineral collector > Crystallographer > SHAPE for the Macintosh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Sep 15 15:00:49 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Sep 15 15:00:19 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease In-Reply-To: <091520041540.25403.414862860000AED20000633B21602807419D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: Indeed Don, H2S is in fact a nerve gas (many of those are based on sulfur and phosphor, btw). It hinders the chemical transmission of pulses between nerve ends (something to do with a reaction with acetylcholine or something along those lines)... Another highly toxic sulfide is CS2 (carbon disulfide), which has the same effect and also sedates the olfactory nerves. Both chemicals have rather specific odors: H2S smells like rotten eggs while CS2 smells like a stale... hm, how shall I put it... Oh yes; think of the abbreviation for "French Association of Retired Talapoins" Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens morningstar@att.net Verzonden: woensdag 15 september 2004 17:41 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease Hi guys, Sounds like melanterite is involved--is the white efflorescent material water soluble? I have used compounds similar to sodium dithionite, Na2S2O4, and they have evolved a "rotten egg" smell during use. A tip about H2S: the olfactory detecability threshold is very low; when you smell it, the concentration is rather low. However, your olfactory sense numbs to H2S as you continue to breathe it, so it's when you *don't* smell it that you're in the biggest trouble. A concentration of 300 ppm represents an immediate danger to life and health (IDLH)--not as bad as HCN (cyanide), ozone, and hydrogen fluoride--but certainly worthy of the highest respect. Deadly Don > Hi Pete, > > What probably happened is that the dithionite reduced the Fe sulfates taken > into solution. You likely got a coating of poorly crystallized mixed iron > sulfides (can't remember the names, but they are the ones that form in > estuaries, etc.). This is a reaction that occurs slowly, and it was the > extended soak that likely caused problems. Having said that, you may have to > live with the results, or let the pyrite disease reform and try again. > > Henry > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Pete Richards > Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 8:27 AM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease > > > I remember reading a rather detailed description of some hazards of treating > specimens with Waller solution (sodium citrate, sodium dithionite, sodium > bicarbonate). Hopefully it was on this list and/or somebody on the list can > point me to it. > > Waller solution is used to remove iron oxides from specimens under > conditions of neutral pH, and while it can damage some specimens (for > example, it will also remove calcium from some minerals), it is generally a > relatively gentle and often quite effective treatment for iron oxide > discoloration. Recently I had a different experience, however. > > I am fighting to save (or extend the life of) a pyrite/marcasite specimen > afflicted with "pyrite disease". It was starting to crack, and > efflorescences of iron sulfate (presumably) were apparent in spots. I > soaked it with many changes of water to remove the oxidation products, but > toward the end of this process I wound up with a coating of iron oxide in > some places. Ah, Waller solution, I thought. > > In it went, and things were going fine. After an hour or so, most of the > rust was gone. I decided to let it soak overnight. In the morning, I > opened the sealed jar, and noticed a decided odor of hydrogen sulfide > (rotten eggs). On parts of the specimen were new deposits of black color, > which I presume are iron sulfide (FeS). > > There were a lot of sulfur compounds throwing their ions around in that > solution. Any astute chemist want to explain what was going on? Is this > experience a general warning against using Waller solution on sulfides? Or > just on ones with pyrite disease?! > > Pete Richards > -- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > R. Peter Richards > rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu > > Mineral collector > Crystallographer > SHAPE for the Macintosh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From andy at agatehouse.co.uk Wed Sep 15 15:06:37 2004 From: andy at agatehouse.co.uk (Andy Parker) Date: Wed Sep 15 15:09:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inland SwapTop 6 1/2" Trim Saw In-Reply-To: <003101c49b35$3a590120$6701a8c0@dslverizon.net> References: <003101c49b35$3a590120$6701a8c0@dslverizon.net> Message-ID: Looks like a standard 'tile saw' to me. I got a new one here (UK) for the equivalent of about 55 USD - swap in a cheap lapidary blade for another 10 dollars and off you go. Or get the 'Rock Rascal' and pay the same for a lapidary item. Cheers Andy Parker, Agate House Lapidary Ulverston, Cumbria, England andy@agatehouse.co.uk www.agatehouse.co.uk Tel: 01229 584023 From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Sep 15 16:28:59 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Sep 15 16:26:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Parti Sapphire References: Message-ID: <4148CF9D.79FB@Tomaszewski.net> BETDAV97@aol.com wrote: > > Hi All, > A local jeweler has an order for a Parti Sapphire, does anyone on > the list know where to acquire such a critter? Any assistance will be > appreciated. Thanks, > Dave Phillips > Sunset Fossils & Minerals > Morgantown, WV > _WVFossils@aol.com_ (mailto:WVFossils@aol.com) > _Betdav97@aol.com_ (mailto:Betdav97@aol.com) > Searching on Google for 'parti sapphire' came up with many dealers offering this gemstone. From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Sep 15 16:43:19 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Sep 15 16:40:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Utah Ice References: <1e3.2abc3cee.2e7921c0@aol.com> Message-ID: <4148D2F8.7C2D@Tomaszewski.net> Mindat shows more than a dozen selenite locations in Utah. There may be legal sources. Lapadary@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 9/14/04 9:16:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > MCGINNISG@aol.com writes: > I have seen some exceptionally clear selenite listed on eBay as "Utah Ice" > can anyone furnish more information as to where this "Utah Ice" is found? > > I Googled this. Maybe you don't want any Utah Ice? Grant > At the end of 1997, resolution is pending in another case on theft charges of > selenite crystals by professional mineral dealers caught excavating specimens > in Capitol Reef National Park (Utah). The value of the stolen crystals and > damage to the earthen mound collection site, which contain highly sought-after > clear ?*?Utah Ice?** crystals, is documented in a mineral appraisal that will be > used in legal restitution of the case. > Hopefully, there is a legal collecting site. From rpr at nike.heidelberg.edu Wed Sep 15 17:11:45 2004 From: rpr at nike.heidelberg.edu (Pete Richards) Date: Wed Sep 15 17:11:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease In-Reply-To: <091520041540.25403.414862860000AED20000633B21602807419D0E9B9C090207029D01 03@att.net> References: <091520041540.25403.414862860000AED20000633B21602807419D0E9B9C090207029D01 03@att.net> Message-ID: Hi Don and Axel (and list), Good comments. You bet the efflorescence is water soluble, the stuff kept coming out of the specimen for days as I soaked it. And given the mineralogy, it must be FeSO4, which is melanterite when appropriately hydrated. Hydrogen sulfide is indeed a gas we are highly sensitive to. You say we become numb to it. I would agree that it is a bad idea to just ignore it and keep sniffing the jar. But I assume the numbing is short-term, and two weeks later when we sniff it again, we'll be just as sensitive to it. What do you know about this exposure and recovery aspect? Regards, Pete >Hi guys, > > >Sounds like melanterite is involved--is the white efflorescent material water soluble? > >I have used compounds similar to sodium dithionite, Na2S2O4, and they have evolved a >"rotten egg" smell during use. > >A tip about H2S: the olfactory detecability threshold is very low; when you smell it, the concentration is rather low. However, your olfactory sense numbs to H2S as you continue to breathe it, so it's when you *don't* smell it that you're in the biggest trouble. A concentration of 300 ppm represents an immediate danger to life and health (IDLH)--not as bad as HCN (cyanide), ozone, and hydrogen fluoride--but certainly worthy of the highest respect. > >Deadly Don > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh From rpr at nike.heidelberg.edu Wed Sep 15 17:16:05 2004 From: rpr at nike.heidelberg.edu (Pete Richards) Date: Wed Sep 15 17:16:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jim, Thanks for the comment. I will try your suggetion. My concern is that acidity appears to enhance the oxidation of pyrite/marcasite. Perhaps this is a confusion of cause and effect, since the oxidation of pyrite leads to the formation of acid products. Still, it should be OK if well rinsed, perhaps with a weak sodium bicarbonate solution to push the pore fluids towards neutral pH. Regards, Pete >Hi Pete- > I concur with Henry's explanation. The only thing I'd add is that if >the black stains are indeed new deposition of Fe-S phases like amorphous >FeS, mackinawite or greigite, they may be very soluble in even fairly dilute >HCl. I would try wiping them with a cotton swab moistened with a little >dilute HCl (say, 1M) if you don't want to immerse the specimen. 10% HCl >might work, too, but not as quickly as a stronger solution. > I routinely cleaned mackinawite off an iron electrode by dipping it in >conc. HCl, and the black film disappeared instantly. I then dipped the >electrode in clean water, then in acetone to dry it quickly. > >Jim Murowchick >__________________________________________________________ >Dr. James B. Murowchick >Associate Professor Office: (816) 235-2979 >Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall Fax: (816) 235-5535 >University of Missouri-Kansas City E-mail: murowchickj@umkc.edu >5110 Rockhill Road >Kansas City, MO 64110 > > > > > on 9/15/04 10:05 AM, Henry Barwood at hbarwood@troyst.edu wrote: > >> Hi Pete, >> >> What probably happened is that the dithionite reduced the Fe sulfates taken >> into solution. You likely got a coating of poorly crystallized mixed iron >> sulfides (can't remember the names, but they are the ones that form in >> estuaries, etc.). This is a reaction that occurs slowly, and it was the >> extended soak that likely caused problems. Having said that, you may have to >> live with the results, or let the pyrite disease reform and try again. >> >> Henry >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Pete Richards >> Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 8:27 AM >> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >> Subject: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease >> >> >> I remember reading a rather detailed description of some hazards of treating >> specimens with Waller solution (sodium citrate, sodium dithionite, sodium >> bicarbonate). Hopefully it was on this list and/or somebody on the list can >> point me to it. >> >> Waller solution is used to remove iron oxides from specimens under >> conditions of neutral pH, and while it can damage some specimens (for >> example, it will also remove calcium from some minerals), it is generally a >> relatively gentle and often quite effective treatment for iron oxide >> discoloration. Recently I had a different experience, however. >> >> I am fighting to save (or extend the life of) a pyrite/marcasite specimen >> afflicted with "pyrite disease". It was starting to crack, and >> efflorescences of iron sulfate (presumably) were apparent in spots. I >> soaked it with many changes of water to remove the oxidation products, but >> toward the end of this process I wound up with a coating of iron oxide in >> some places. Ah, Waller solution, I thought. >> >> In it went, and things were going fine. After an hour or so, most of the >> rust was gone. I decided to let it soak overnight. In the morning, I >> opened the sealed jar, and noticed a decided odor of hydrogen sulfide >> (rotten eggs). On parts of the specimen were new deposits of black color, >> which I presume are iron sulfide (FeS). >> >> There were a lot of sulfur compounds throwing their ions around in that >> solution. Any astute chemist want to explain what was going on? Is this >> experience a general warning against using Waller solution on sulfides? Or >> just on ones with pyrite disease?! > > >> Pete Richards >> -- >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> R. Peter Richards >> rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu >> >> Mineral collector >> Crystallographer >> SHAPE for the Macintosh >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh From morningstar at att.net Wed Sep 15 18:14:02 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Wed Sep 15 18:12:43 2004 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease (fwd)] Message-ID: <4148E8DA.9060308@att.net> Hi Pete, et al., Here is an answer from Gene. He was busy but he was kind enough to answer. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease (fwd) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 15:25:23 -0400 Dithionite Na2S2O4 can break down to give H2S. Ordianrily there is enough citrate and bicarb to keep the pH alkaline enough to avoid that. Not sure of the mechanism anymore. BTW. Dr. Bob has a sure fire way to protect pyrites. The technology was originally developed by DuPont to prevent oxidation of mine tailings and Dr. Bob was the tech person on the project. Immerse the cleaned specimen in a solution of permanganate at an alkaline pH about 11 as I recall. This deposits a tecnaeous protective layer on the pyrite of MnO2 but it is so thin you won't see it. It will prevent further attack by changing the surface potential. gene From Lapadary at aol.com Wed Sep 15 18:14:57 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Wed Sep 15 18:15:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re Utah Ice-- word lovers Message-ID: <64.43d4ed71.2e7a4311@aol.com> In a message dated 9/15/04 2:29:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, kahako@aloha.net writes: FLOCCINAUCINHILIPILIFICATION You can find the root of the word here. I think we are still on topic since the word describes leaverite. http://www.worldwidewords.org/weirdwords/ww-flo2.htm GRANT --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From afox at drizzle.com Wed Sep 15 18:27:55 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Wed Sep 15 18:27:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fwd: Dudy Groves is sick! (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 18:09:15 -0700 (PDT) From: J. R. Hodel To: rockhounds-owner@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Fwd: Dudy Groves is sick! Hi Aaron: I got the attached email from Raymond Sprague, who, together with the geo folks from the U of New Orleans hosts the Pegmatite Workshop at Poland Mining Camp each summer. I wasn't sure if it would be appropriate for me to just send it to the list, so I thought I'd send it to you and let you make the call. My wife and I and my rockhound friend Dan spent some time at Poland Mining Camp a little while back, and I've followed the founding of the Pegmatite Workshop closely -- I plan every summer to attend but my plans, they fall through every time. Anyway Mary and Dudy are famous...he's one of the 6 or 8 old timers that used to mine gemstones in Maine. The young miners call Dudy to help plan a blast when they think they've got a live pocket, so they might not break every crystal to shards...he has to be 90 if he's a day! And blown up several time, to boot. So do what you want...I just thought the west coast hounds and miners would like to know. JR in Hamlin WV Note: forwarded message attached. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) message/rfc822 --- From morningstar at att.net Wed Sep 15 18:39:18 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Wed Sep 15 18:37:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4148EEC6.5070808@att.net> Hi, I have also heard that soaking in a mild solution of aqueous ammonia (1) will neutralize the incipient acids. My (amateur) theory is that some pyrites & marcasites contain more of the components necessary to form acid, depending on their paragenesis and environmental conditions. For example, the iron disulfides of the Raritan formation, in which the famous New Jersey Sayreville amber is found, are continuously soaking in a mild solution containing sulfuric acid, pH of 5 (2). These decompose quite readily. The wonderful pyrite cubes from Navajon, Spain, do not seem to decompose but I don't know much about their environment; perhaps it is drier and not as acidic. Food for thought. ------- (1) Not household ammonia--who knows what is in there. Use reagent-grade solution of known molarity. (2) Tested using paper strips; accuracy of measurement is questionable. Don Pete Richards wrote: > Hi Jim, > > Thanks for the comment. I will try your suggetion. My concern is that acidity appears to enhance the oxidation of pyrite/marcasite. Perhaps this is a confusion of cause and effect, since the oxidation of pyrite leads to the formation of acid products. Still, it should be OK if well rinsed, perhaps with a weak sodium bicarbonate solution to push the pore fluids towards neutral pH. > > Regards, > Pete From mikeflan at earthlink.net Wed Sep 15 19:53:21 2004 From: mikeflan at earthlink.net (Mike Flannigan) Date: Wed Sep 15 19:51:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mines and Crystals References: <200409160011.i8G0BvtT016874@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <41490021.46ED36C2@earthlink.net> Actually there are 2 Sweetwater Mines (or maybe more) in MO. The old one in Joplin county and the one in Reynolds county otherwise known as the Adair Creek Mine. Here is the later one: http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=37.35972&lon=-91.14806&datum=NAD27&s=50&size=l Mike > Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 13:50:19 -0700 > From: Richard Trapp > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mines and Crystals > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: <4148AB0B.3020509@azgs.az.gov> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > Brass Rooster is correct and as long as we're doing corrections (from > another message - ) Joplin is in SW Missouri and the Sweetwater Mine is > at the southern end of the Viburnum trend in SE Missouri... From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Wed Sep 15 19:57:17 2004 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Wed Sep 15 19:57:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease Message-ID: <1a4.28f28a7b.2e7a5b0d@aol.com> H2S interferes with the nerves and sensors that transmit odor. So the loss of smell is usually fully recovered. Time of recovery will depend on exposure quantity and time, among other things. The organic analogs of H2S (Mercaptans) smell even worse than H2S itself. H2S can be detected by most folks in the PPB level, and gets decidedly uncomfortable at the low PPM level. We used to teach everyone working around it that when you stop smelling it, it is time to worry. These days there are personal monitors. An occasional wiff from a bottle opened is not a huge problem. Remember you make this stuff in your intestines (along with mercaptans, disulfides and indoles). Gene Hartstein Newark, DE In a message dated 9/15/2004 8:12:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, rpr@nike.heidelberg.edu writes: Hydrogen sulfide is indeed a gas we are highly sensitive to. You say we become numb to it. I would agree that it is a bad idea to just ignore it and keep sniffing the jar. But I assume the numbing is short-term, and two weeks later when we sniff it again, we'll be just as sensitive to it. What do you know about this exposure and recovery aspect? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From maxwellqe2 at worldnet.att.net Wed Sep 15 19:59:13 2004 From: maxwellqe2 at worldnet.att.net (Linda Eshbaugh) Date: Wed Sep 15 20:11:07 2004 Subject: Fw: [Rockhounds] Mines and Crystals Message-ID: <00ab01c49b9a$a9a2bca0$0799490c@5f06g01> Hi - In case you are interested, Springfield, IL's rock club - LOESS - is having their rock show on the first Saturday & Sunday of October. It is only about 1 hour north of St. L on I-55. Held at the Illinois Building at the State Fair Park. If you want more, info, let me know. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 9:04 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mines and Crystals John: You might want to visit the Red Rooster mineral shop in Rolla. The owner, Larry Nuelle, is a geologist who works for the Doe Run Company and is well acquainted with the Sweetwater material, and also has lots to sell in his shop. Larry Rush ----- Original Message ----- From: JOHN GERSTNER To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 7:57 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Mines and Crystals I live just outside of St. louis Mo and have been to a few rock shows in the area. I've seen crystals that came from various mines from this area, Sweetwater mine being one of them. I was wondering how people obtain these crystals from these mines? Is it a matter of knowing some miners working there who are kind enough to obtain them for you during their work day? Thanks in advance! Cedarhill_rockhound --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From morningstar at att.net Wed Sep 15 20:43:45 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Wed Sep 15 20:42:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease In-Reply-To: References: <091520041540.25403.414862860000AED20000633B21602807419D0E9B9C090207029D01 03@att.net> Message-ID: <41490BF1.40503@att.net> Pete Richards wrote: > Hydrogen sulfide is indeed a gas we are highly sensitive to. You say we become numb to it. I would agree that it is a bad idea to just ignore it and keep sniffing the jar. But I assume the numbing is short-term, and two weeks later when we sniff it again, we'll be just as sensitive to it. What do you know about this exposure and recovery aspect? OK, now I am home and have my NIOSH Pocket Guide at hand (I keep the DOT first response guide in the car, but not the NIOSH guide). The current "immediate danger to life and health" value is 100 ppm, where 1 ppm is 1.40 milligrams per cubic meter (of atmosphere). The note states that "Sense of smell becomes rapidly fatigued and can NOT be relied upon to warn of the continuous presence of H2S." The remainder of the entry prescribes various protective gear including breathing apparatus. The gas can affect the eyes, respiratory and central nervous systems. Don H From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Wed Sep 15 21:29:04 2004 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Linda Rasmussen) Date: Wed Sep 15 21:28:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease/ H2s References: <091520041540.25403.414862860000AED20000633B21602807419D0E9B9C090207029D01 03@att.net> <41490BF1.40503@att.net> Message-ID: <00d101c49ba5$b5aadf40$685fe842@litleval> How right you are, I own a hot spring in Oregon State on the East central side, at times it has a very small H2s odor, I can no longer smell it but a visitor can, strangely the only time this 160'f. water has a H2s odor is roughly 72 hours before an Earthquake occurs some where on the Pacific Rim, the closer the more heavily the H2s, before the Olympia Quake a few years ago the H2s was strong enough I did smell that and recorded it in my log book. After the Olympia Quake no one smelled any H2s at all in this hot soft water, Who knew. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: Don H To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 9:43 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease > Pete Richards wrote: > > > Hydrogen sulfide is indeed a gas we are highly sensitive to. You say we become numb to it. I would agree that it is a bad idea to just ignore it and keep sniffing the jar. But I assume the numbing is short-term, and two weeks later when we sniff it again, we'll be just as sensitive to it. What do you know about this exposure and recovery aspect? > > > OK, now I am home and have my NIOSH Pocket Guide at hand (I keep the DOT > first response guide in the car, but not the NIOSH guide). > > The current "immediate danger to life and health" value is 100 ppm, > where 1 ppm is 1.40 milligrams per cubic meter (of atmosphere). The > note states that "Sense of smell becomes rapidly fatigued and can NOT be > relied upon to warn of the continuous presence of H2S." > > The remainder of the entry prescribes various protective gear including > breathing apparatus. The gas can affect the eyes, respiratory and > central nervous systems. > > > Don H > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From sonskynm at telkomsa.net Wed Sep 15 23:00:53 2004 From: sonskynm at telkomsa.net (Gerhard en Rietha Bindeman) Date: Wed Sep 15 23:01:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] MASK Message-ID: <000e01c49bb2$8944adc0$010aa8c0@gerhard> HI I RECENTLY GOT A BRASS MASK INLAID WITH GEMS HOWEVER THE MASK WAS CLEANED WITH BRASSO (METAL POLISH) HOW DO I GET RID OF THE WHITE RESIDUE LEFT BY THE BRASSO THANX GERHARD --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kadok at infowest.com Thu Sep 16 08:31:10 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Thu Sep 16 08:31:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Utah Ice In-Reply-To: <1e9.2a8ee52a.2e79cc62@aol.com> Message-ID: <20040916153108.93B2AEB0068@delivery.infowest.com> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Utah Ice Feller stone in Utah has been selling this material to the pet industry for 20 years. The only problem is if it it put into an aquarium it disssolves leaving the water hardened. Greg Lesinski GSLROCKS 4726 Porter Center Rd. Lewiston NY 14092 Right, Greg! The slight solubility of gypsum is the reason the Quail Lake (Reservoir) cofferdam near St. George failed, sending a wall of water down the Virgin River that flooded part of a posh section of St. George! This was back around 1990, as I remember. Think it was New Years' Eve. (They rebuilt the cofferdam (under a great deal of protest), and put in a multi-million dollar plant to remove the gypsum from the water to make it usable.) Another problem with this material (re its use as "glass") is that it scratches quite easily. Margaret --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Thu Sep 16 09:29:11 2004 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Thu Sep 16 09:29:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] MASK Message-ID: The white residue is probably the abrasive in brasso. Hot soapy water and a toothbrush shoud do the trick. Gene Hartstein --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Sep 16 15:17:16 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Sep 16 15:16:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease In-Reply-To: <41490BF1.40503@att.net> Message-ID: On April 1st some 23 years ago, one of my colleagues was suspended without pay for 2 months. He thought it was a good joke to put a flask with FeS and HCl (producing copious H2S at the inlet of the air-conditioning of the control room (Chemical plant). At first people came out of the room gagging and gasping but as the gas moved into the corridor, they became numb and went back in to monitor the plant's processes... This could have ended badly if one of the operators had decided to "sit out" his nausea and dizzy spells. Instead he went to the "sickbay". The guy was incoherent, shaking, pale, sweating... Luckily he was the worst affected because he was sitting right next to the airco outlet thus getting more concentrated H2S. Still, all workers in the control room were nauseous afterwards and nobody had any recollection of smelling the gas after the initial stench wave. The people that rescued them said afterwards that the smell was like being inside a rotten egg. Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Don H Verzonden: donderdag 16 september 2004 5:44 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease Pete Richards wrote: > Hydrogen sulfide is indeed a gas we are highly sensitive to. You say we become numb to it. I would agree that it is a bad idea to just ignore it and keep sniffing the jar. But I assume the numbing is short-term, and two weeks later when we sniff it again, we'll be just as sensitive to it. What do you know about this exposure and recovery aspect? OK, now I am home and have my NIOSH Pocket Guide at hand (I keep the DOT first response guide in the car, but not the NIOSH guide). The current "immediate danger to life and health" value is 100 ppm, where 1 ppm is 1.40 milligrams per cubic meter (of atmosphere). The note states that "Sense of smell becomes rapidly fatigued and can NOT be relied upon to warn of the continuous presence of H2S." The remainder of the entry prescribes various protective gear including breathing apparatus. The gas can affect the eyes, respiratory and central nervous systems. Don H _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Thu Sep 16 15:39:10 2004 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Thu Sep 16 15:39:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Somehow I recollect from toxicology class that the 'dangerous concentration' (whatever that is) of H2S is well below the detection level of our noses. So when you smell the rotten eggs you are allready in trouble. The mercapto compounds are also smelly substances. I remember a long duration power outage in our lab. The first few hours where fun. Nothing we could do, only make coffee over our bunser burners. But then we realised the ventilation system that is supposed to suck away the fumes of our mercapto enthanol flasks also stopped working!! That was a valid reason to call it a day and go home. (The next day I discovered the the sudden power outage sucked my mass spectrometer full of oil from the vacuum pump and I spent a week cleaning the d*mn thing :-( ) And Axel, we had a 1st year student who left the H2S cylinder open OUTSIDE the ventilation cabinet. That was good for an evacuation of the building, about 400 people :-)) Who says chemistry is boring? cheers, Maurice -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: 17 September 2004 00:17 To: Rockhounds@Lists.Drizzle.Com Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease On April 1st some 23 years ago, one of my colleagues was suspended without pay for 2 months. He thought it was a good joke to put a flask with FeS and HCl (producing copious H2S at the inlet of the air-conditioning of the control room (Chemical plant). At first people came out of the room gagging and gasping but as the gas moved into the corridor, they became numb and went back in to monitor the plant's processes... This could have ended badly if one of the operators had decided to "sit out" his nausea and dizzy spells. Instead he went to the "sickbay". The guy was incoherent, shaking, pale, sweating... Luckily he was the worst affected because he was sitting right next to the airco outlet thus getting more concentrated H2S. Still, all workers in the control room were nauseous afterwards and nobody had any recollection of smelling the gas after the initial stench wave. The people that rescued them said afterwards that the smell was like being inside a rotten egg. Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Don H Verzonden: donderdag 16 september 2004 5:44 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease Pete Richards wrote: > Hydrogen sulfide is indeed a gas we are highly sensitive to. You say we become numb to it. I would agree that it is a bad idea to just ignore it and keep sniffing the jar. But I assume the numbing is short-term, and two weeks later when we sniff it again, we'll be just as sensitive to it. What do you know about this exposure and recovery aspect? OK, now I am home and have my NIOSH Pocket Guide at hand (I keep the DOT first response guide in the car, but not the NIOSH guide). The current "immediate danger to life and health" value is 100 ppm, where 1 ppm is 1.40 milligrams per cubic meter (of atmosphere). The note states that "Sense of smell becomes rapidly fatigued and can NOT be relied upon to warn of the continuous presence of H2S." The remainder of the entry prescribes various protective gear including breathing apparatus. The gas can affect the eyes, respiratory and central nervous systems. Don H _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jbryankramer at msn.com Thu Sep 16 16:49:27 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Sep 16 16:49:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <006101c49c47$ce3d4730$6601a8c0@bryan> No it's the other way around, you can smell H2S in the low ppb range but your nose become insenitive as the concentration approaches a 0.1 ppm or so. The Toxic range is above this. Bryan -- --Somehow I recollect from toxicology class that the 'dangerous --concentration' (whatever that is) of H2S is well below the --detection level of our noses. So when you smell the rotten --eggs you are allready in trouble. -- --The mercapto compounds are also smelly substances. I remember -- a long duration power outage in our lab. The first few hours --where fun. Nothing we could do, only make coffee over our --bunser burners. But then we realised the ventilation system --that is supposed to suck away the fumes of our mercapto --enthanol flasks also stopped working!! That was a valid --reason to call it a day and go home. (The next day I --discovered the the sudden power outage sucked my mass --spectrometer full of oil from the vacuum pump and I spent a --week cleaning the d*mn thing :-( ) -- --And Axel, we had a 1st year student who left the H2S cylinder --open OUTSIDE the ventilation cabinet. That was good for an --evacuation of the building, about 400 people :-)) -- --Who says chemistry is boring? -- --cheers, --Maurice -- -- -- -------Original Message----- --From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com --[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of --Axel Emmermann --Sent: 17 September 2004 00:17 --To: Rockhounds@Lists.Drizzle.Com --Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease -- -- --On April 1st some 23 years ago, one of my colleagues was --suspended without pay for 2 months. He thought it was a good --joke to put a flask with FeS and HCl (producing copious H2S --at the inlet of the air-conditioning of the control room --(Chemical plant). At first people came out of the room --gagging and gasping but as the gas moved into the corridor, --they became numb and went back in to monitor the plant's --processes... This could have ended badly if one of the --operators had decided to "sit out" his nausea and dizzy --spells. Instead he went to the "sickbay". The guy was --incoherent, shaking, pale, sweating... Luckily he was the --worst affected because he was sitting right next to the --airco outlet thus getting more concentrated H2S. Still, all --workers in the control room were nauseous afterwards and --nobody had any recollection of smelling the gas after the --initial stench wave. The people that rescued them said --afterwards that the smell was like being inside a rotten egg. -- --Cheers -- --Axel -- -- -------Oorspronkelijk bericht----- --Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com --[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Don H --Verzonden: donderdag 16 september 2004 5:44 --Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem --collectors --Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease -- -- --Pete Richards wrote: -- --> Hydrogen sulfide is indeed a gas we are highly sensitive --to. You say --> we --become numb to it. I would agree that it is a bad idea to --just ignore it and keep sniffing the jar. But I assume the --numbing is short-term, and two weeks later when we sniff it --again, we'll be just as sensitive to it. What do you know --about this exposure and recovery aspect? -- -- --OK, now I am home and have my NIOSH Pocket Guide at hand (I --keep the DOT first response guide in the car, but not the --NIOSH guide). -- --The current "immediate danger to life and health" value is --100 ppm, where 1 ppm is 1.40 milligrams per cubic meter (of --atmosphere). The note states that "Sense of smell becomes --rapidly fatigued and can NOT be relied upon to warn of the --continuous presence of H2S." -- --The remainder of the entry prescribes various protective gear --including breathing apparatus. The gas can affect the eyes, --respiratory and central nervous systems. -- -- --Don H -- -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- -- -- -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- From jbryankramer at msn.com Thu Sep 16 16:53:55 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Sep 16 16:54:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <006201c49c48$6de1a7e0$6601a8c0@bryan> People do die from H2S and it wasn't uncommon either. Wastewater workers often were exposed to it in lift stations and when one worker fell unconscious from exposure other workers would attempt rescues and in turn also succumb to the gas. H2S often lead to multiple deaths. With intense training and the availability of portable electronic gas monitors this has become less frequent. Bryan -------Original Message----- -- --On April 1st some 23 years ago, one of my colleagues was --suspended without pay for 2 months. He thought it was a good --joke to put a flask with FeS and HCl (producing copious H2S --at the inlet of the air-conditioning of the control room --(Chemical plant). At first people came out of the room --gagging and gasping but as the gas moved into the corridor, --they became numb and went back in to monitor the plant's --processes... This could have ended badly if one of the --operators had decided to "sit out" his nausea and dizzy --spells. Instead he went to the "sickbay". The guy was --incoherent, shaking, pale, sweating... Luckily he was the --worst affected because he was sitting right next to the --airco outlet thus getting more concentrated H2S. Still, all --workers in the control room were nauseous afterwards and --nobody had any recollection of smelling the gas after the --initial stench wave. The people that rescued them said --afterwards that the smell was like being inside a rotten egg. -- --Cheers -- --Axel -- -- -------Oorspronkelijk bericht----- --Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com --[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Don H --Verzonden: donderdag 16 september 2004 5:44 --Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem --collectors --Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease -- -- --Pete Richards wrote: -- --> Hydrogen sulfide is indeed a gas we are highly sensitive --to. You say --> we --become numb to it. I would agree that it is a bad idea to --just ignore it and keep sniffing the jar. But I assume the --numbing is short-term, and two weeks later when we sniff it --again, we'll be just as sensitive to it. What do you know --about this exposure and recovery aspect? -- -- --OK, now I am home and have my NIOSH Pocket Guide at hand (I --keep the DOT first response guide in the car, but not the --NIOSH guide). -- --The current "immediate danger to life and health" value is --100 ppm, where 1 ppm is 1.40 milligrams per cubic meter (of --atmosphere). The note states that "Sense of smell becomes --rapidly fatigued and can NOT be relied upon to warn of the --continuous presence of H2S." -- --The remainder of the entry prescribes various protective gear --including breathing apparatus. The gas can affect the eyes, --respiratory and central nervous systems. -- -- --Don H -- -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- -- -- -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Thu Sep 16 18:55:43 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Thu Sep 16 18:55:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] H2S References: <006201c49c48$6de1a7e0$6601a8c0@bryan> Message-ID: <00d901c49c59$71204860$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> H2S was responsible to the deaths of several fluorite miners at the Barnett Mine near Rosiclare, Illinois in the early 1970's. The gas was also in the Annabel Lee mine. When I was there in 1987, they had scattered little H2S detectors throughout the mine. It was never in high PPM's, but its presence was enough to warrant monitoring after the Barnett Mine disaster. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 7:53 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease > People do die from H2S and it wasn't uncommon either. Wastewater workers > often were exposed to it in lift stations and when one worker fell > unconscious from exposure other workers would attempt rescues and in turn > also succumb to the gas. H2S often lead to multiple deaths. With intense > training and the availability of portable electronic gas monitors this has > become less frequent. > > Bryan From Paintricks at aol.com Thu Sep 16 21:28:28 2004 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Thu Sep 16 21:28:33 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] world championship crystal dig? Message-ID: <64.43de2644.2e7bc1ec@aol.com> Hey Guys, Just wondering who could direct me to the crystal dig and how to get in. Who to sign up with? Thanks, Kevin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From folmstead at rcn.com Thu Sep 16 21:58:54 2004 From: folmstead at rcn.com (Fred Olmstead) Date: Thu Sep 16 21:41:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] crystal dig? In-Reply-To: <64.43de2644.2e7bc1ec@aol.com> References: <64.43de2644.2e7bc1ec@aol.com> Message-ID: <414A6F0E.8080403@rcn.com> HI __..--..__..--..__ Paintricks@aol.com wrote: >Hey Guys, > Just wondering who could direct me to the crystal dig and how to get in. >Who to sign up with? > Thanks, > Kevin > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) application/msword --- From k.conroy at worldnet.att.net Thu Sep 16 21:48:57 2004 From: k.conroy at worldnet.att.net (Kevin Conroy) Date: Thu Sep 16 21:45:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] world championship crystal dig. plus ad References: <64.43de2644.2e7bc1ec@aol.com> Message-ID: <004101c49c71$a52c5500$358f4a0c@kcmins> Hi! For complete info on the quartz dig go to www.mtidachamber.com/crystal_dig_info.htm All the best, Kevin www.kcminerals.com PS I visited the Denver show this week, and as usual found some great minerals! If you want to see what I found please check my website in the following weeks. Also, I'll have a MAJOR announcement for an auction site which will probably be in full swing in October! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 11:28 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] world championship crystal dig? > Hey Guys, > Just wondering who could direct me to the crystal dig and how to get in. > Who to sign up with? > Thanks, > Kevin > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From stu at arcrystalmine.com Fri Sep 17 05:38:00 2004 From: stu at arcrystalmine.com (stu@arcrystalmine.com) Date: Fri Sep 17 05:37:57 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] world championship crystal dig? References: <64.43de2644.2e7bc1ec@aol.com> Message-ID: <004001c49cb3$2cb2a240$6400a8c0@STUART> We now have 71 diggers signed up for the 3 day contest which starts October 7th. The three participating mines are G.W. Johnson's Brewster Mountain Mine, Randy Skates Sweet Surrender Mine, and Matthew Price Arrowhead Mine (Tony Thacker's old Leatherhead Mine). All three mines have been actively mined. The entry fee for the 3 day dig is $60 and you get to keep all the crystals you dig. All the information about the dig is on this Chamber web page, including a registration form. http://www.mtidachamber.com/crystal_dig_info.htm It's a fun time for all with a chance to win a piece of the $1500 prize money and a trophy for being the "World Championship Crystal Digger" With appreciation & gratitude, Stuart Schmitt Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine www.arcrystalmine.com 60 Mary's Eagle Trail Mount Ida, AR 71957 (870) 867-2443 From Hammerron at aol.com Fri Sep 17 16:19:26 2004 From: Hammerron at aol.com (Hammerron@aol.com) Date: Fri Sep 17 16:19:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] jewelry repair completed Message-ID: <88.14c8f3e8.2e7ccafe@aol.com> Hope I don't bore anyone. Two people were nice enough to mail me jump rings to try. I have finished repairing the bracelet. The before picture can be seen at: http://hammerron.com/temp090304.jpg The after picture at: http://hammerron.com/temp091604.jpg Out of the choices I had, I opted to use a split ring rather than a regular jump ring, due to the fact that it seems much stronger. I could have done the jump rings in sterling (which was a perfect match), but chose the nickel split ring, figuring long term it should hold much better. I will send a personal thank you off list to the two who mailed me rings to use, but wanted to share with the group my results. -Ron --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Hairibut at aol.com Fri Sep 17 21:47:23 2004 From: Hairibut at aol.com (Hairibut@aol.com) Date: Fri Sep 17 21:47:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] 2 Famous Volcanos erupt within hours of each other Message-ID: Didn't a third volcano in Japan just erupt too? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Sat Sep 18 02:24:38 2004 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Sat Sep 18 02:24:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Harrisburg Show Message-ID: For those of you in PA,MD,DE,WV,NY, and NJ, check out the Central Penn Rock and Mineral Club annual show in Harrisburg, PA, Sept 18-19. Follow the below link for directions to the show. http://www.rockandmineral.org/annualshow.htm This has always been an excellent show and will give you some great ideas about where to collect in PA and the surrounding area. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jr50wv at yahoo.com Sat Sep 18 08:47:31 2004 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Sat Sep 18 08:47:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Update on Dudy in Maine Message-ID: <20040918154731.67036.qmail@web41015.mail.yahoo.com> Here's the latest on Dudy Groves in Maine. Dan and My wife and I spent a wonderful week in Maine at Poland Mining Camp 3 or 4 years ago, and he's a great guy. If he can't ID a mineral found in Maine right off the bat, you've really got a rare one. Here's Ray's email: Dear Friends, To those who do not know Dudy Groves, the owner of Poland Mining Camps, I apologize for this email. I am using my pegmatite email list to update those who do. I have an update on Dudy. He came home from the hospital yesterday. As it turns out, Dudy has a calcified mitral valve in his heart. In simple terms, this defect caused a build up of fluid in his lungs and he did not really have pneumonia. But he does need a valve replacement in the very near future. He has talked the doctors into waiting a few weeks for the surgery, so he can be at his "End of Season Party" at Poland Mining Camps, on Saturday, October 2. I talked with Dudy this morning and he is doing okay right now. His humor is intact and he hates doctors just as much as before! :>) I am sure he is not looking forward to this surgery, but he knows it has to be done! To help boost his spirits, might I suggest if any of you can make it to his "End of Season Party", please do so! I would love to have as many friends of Dudy's there as possible! The Party starts about 2:00 PM. Mary says she is keeping the party simple this year - for obvious reason - but if you want to "help" her, give her a call and don't take "no" for an answer. If you could bring a pot-luck dish or dessert, please do so! Mary & Irving "Dudy" Groves Route 26 Poland, Maine 04274 (207) 998-2350 Now I'll swear I never suggested this, but joke gifts are always welcome for Dudy! I think something like a big pair of fluffy bunny slippers for his recouping at home would be appropriate! :>) However, if you can't come to his party, a card to him would really make him feel good right now. If you need directions (or contact info) to Poland Mining Camps, see their web site at : http://www.polandminingcamps.com/ Thank you all in advance! •••••••••••••••••• Ray Sprague _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com From dri.anna at verizon.net Sat Sep 18 13:54:38 2004 From: dri.anna at verizon.net (Dri) Date: Sat Sep 18 13:54:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Puget Sound Area Shows/Fests Message-ID: <005801c49dc1$b76958c0$6701a8c0@dslverizon.net> For those of you within the Puget Sound Area. Upcoming Shows/Fests... September 18 10am-6pm 19 10am-5pm Seattle Regional Rock & Gem Show Annual Show Seattle Center's Fisher Pavilion Seattle, WA October 9- 10am - 5pm 10 - 10am -5pm Marysville Rock and Gem Club 30th Annual Rocktoberfest Marysville Jr. HS Cafeteria 7th St & State Ave Marysville, WA October 23- 10am - 5pm 24 - 10am -5pm Bellevue Rock Club Octoberfest of Gems Vasa Park 3560 W. Lake Sammamish Parkway SE Bellevue, WA Y'All Take Care, Ya' Hear! Dri-Anna WA - USA Home Page: http://twospirit.net/index.html.htm http://www.twospirit.net/MyHobbyAfricanVioletCollectionP1.htm --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From TomE61 at aol.com Sat Sep 18 17:33:49 2004 From: TomE61 at aol.com (TomE61@aol.com) Date: Sat Sep 18 17:33:57 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] I am a new subscriber Message-ID: <1cc.2b63edbc.2e7e2ded@aol.com> Thank you for processing my subscription so quickly. My name is Tom Russell and I live in New York City (Manhattan). I have been a rock collector since I was 8 years old (when I received a mineral set as a gift), but its only during the last year and a half, since I took time off from full time work, that I have been able to really get into this hobby. I have travelled extensively throughout the ENTIRE northeastern United States (visiting sites, quarries, mines, etc.) and look forward to comparing notes and sharing experiences with other members. I've also done collecting in VA, FL and CA. My favorite rock is the garnet. I also enjoy crystals of any kind, shape and size. I am looking forward to learning more about rocks and minerals from the other subscribers on this site. Regards, Tom --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From TomE61 at aol.com Sat Sep 18 19:40:12 2004 From: TomE61 at aol.com (TomE61@aol.com) Date: Sat Sep 18 19:40:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Upcoming Rocks & Minerals Shows in New York & New Jersey Message-ID: I just happened upon this information and wanted to share it. The following shows are scheduled for NY & NJ in the upcoming months: September 25 & 26: Franklin Public School, NJ October 16 & 17 - Mid-Hudson Civic Center - Poughkeepsie, NY November 20 & 21: Pascack Hills High School, NJ I got this information courtesy of the Excalibur Mineral Site www.excaliburmineral.com This will be my first time going to the Franklin NJ show, but I was told by an employee of the Sterling Mineral Mine (nearby, also in NJ) that it is worth attending. Also, September 26 (Sunday) is the one day a month that Sterling Mineral Mine is open to the public for collectors. Although I am not especially fascinated by them, this is reportedly one of the best collecting sites for fluorescent minerals. For more information about Sterling Mineral Mine, visit their website: http://sterlinghill.org/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Lapidry at aol.com Sat Sep 18 19:47:05 2004 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Sat Sep 18 19:47:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Upcoming Rocks & Minerals Shows in New York & New Jersey Message-ID: <159.3fb7f73b.2e7e4d29@aol.com> Humm... that would be shows in the Eastern Federation. If you want a larger list, look at http://www.amfed.org/efmls/calendar.htm All seven federations have websites that include calendars of upcoming shows. Go to www.amfed.org to find links to all seven United States federations. Dan In a message dated 9/18/2004 10:40:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, TomE61@aol.com writes: I just happened upon this information and wanted to share it. The following shows are scheduled for NY & NJ in the upcoming months: September 25 & 26: Franklin Public School, NJ October 16 & 17 - Mid-Hudson Civic Center - Poughkeepsie, NY November 20 & 21: Pascack Hills High School, NJ I got this information courtesy of the Excalibur Mineral Site www.excaliburmineral.com This will be my first time going to the Franklin NJ show, but I was told by an employee of the Sterling Mineral Mine (nearby, also in NJ) that it is worth attending. Also, September 26 (Sunday) is the one day a month that Sterling Mineral Mine is open to the public for collectors. Although I am not especially fascinated by them, this is reportedly one of the best collecting sites for fluorescent minerals. For more information about Sterling Mineral Mine, visit their website: http://sterlinghill.org/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From ki3u at hotmail.com Sat Sep 18 20:08:53 2004 From: ki3u at hotmail.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Sat Sep 18 20:08:55 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] I am a new subscriber Message-ID: Welcome Tom. Berj >From: TomE61@aol.com >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Subject: [Rockhounds] I am a new subscriber >Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 20:33:49 EDT > > >Thank you for processing my subscription so quickly. > >My name is Tom Russell and I live in New York City (Manhattan). I have >been >a rock collector since I was 8 years old (when I received a mineral set as >a >gift), but its only during the last year and a half, since I took time off >from >full time work, that I have been able to really get into this hobby. > >I have travelled extensively throughout the ENTIRE northeastern United >States >(visiting sites, quarries, mines, etc.) and look forward to comparing notes >and sharing experiences with other members. I've also done collecting in >VA, >FL and CA. > >My favorite rock is the garnet. I also enjoy crystals of any kind, shape >and >size. > >I am looking forward to learning more about rocks and minerals from the >other >subscribers on this site. > >Regards, >Tom > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfeeŽ Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sun Sep 19 02:46:59 2004 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sun Sep 19 02:46:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] I am a new subscriber In-Reply-To: <1cc.2b63edbc.2e7e2ded@aol.com> Message-ID: Welcome Tom, Since you are from Manhattan, you might know the answer to a question I have. Are there (still) mineral localities on Manhattan island? I do have an Uvite from Inwood park and Mas Mils shows two or three quarries in the northern half of Manhattan. I have some trouble installing US Topo, otherwise I could give you the street names. I wondered about these curious localities, since minerals are not very common in downtown areas. cheers, Maurice -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of TomE61@aol.com Sent: 19 September 2004 02:34 To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] I am a new subscriber Thank you for processing my subscription so quickly. My name is Tom Russell and I live in New York City (Manhattan). I have been a rock collector since I was 8 years old (when I received a mineral set as a gift), but its only during the last year and a half, since I took time off from full time work, that I have been able to really get into this hobby. I have travelled extensively throughout the ENTIRE northeastern United States (visiting sites, quarries, mines, etc.) and look forward to comparing notes and sharing experiences with other members. I've also done collecting in VA, FL and CA. My favorite rock is the garnet. I also enjoy crystals of any kind, shape and size. I am looking forward to learning more about rocks and minerals from the other subscribers on this site. Regards, Tom --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tutor at tuks.co.za Sun Sep 19 10:02:43 2004 From: tutor at tuks.co.za (Johan Lubbe) Date: Sun Sep 19 10:02:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE:I am a new subscriber (TomE61@aol.com) (Johan) Message-ID: <1095613363.414dbbb35817a@student.up.ac.za> Greetings from South Africa Tom, Welcome to the list :) Garnet? Good choice, if I'm not mistaken there is quite a lot of it in New York. Any interest in Herks? Best regards Johan Lubbe From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Sun Sep 19 12:26:04 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Sun Sep 19 12:22:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] I am a new subscriber In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200409191922.i8JJM8Vt010775@bubbleator.drizzle.com> John Betts has an article on this very subject: http://www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com/jhbnyc/articles/inwood.htm (The above should all be on one line.) If you browse around John's site you'll find out all sorts of neat stuff. He's a Good Guy. Gary Brown Catspaw Minerals http://www.catspaw-minerals.com Home of the MasMils/PLUS Mine Location Disk > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Maurice de Graaf > Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 4:47 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] I am a new subscriber > > Welcome Tom, > > Since you are from Manhattan, you might know the answer to a > question I have. > > Are there (still) mineral localities on Manhattan island? I > do have an Uvite from Inwood park and Mas Mils shows two or > three quarries in the northern half of Manhattan. I have some > trouble installing US Topo, otherwise I could give you the > street names. > > I wondered about these curious localities, since minerals are > not very common in downtown areas. > > cheers, > Maurice From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Sun Sep 19 12:30:24 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Sun Sep 19 12:26:15 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Upcoming Rocks & Minerals Shows in New York & NewJersey In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200409191926.i8JJQDVt011932@bubbleator.drizzle.com> You said: "reportedly one of the best collecting sites for fluorescent minerals"... Heck, Ogdensburg and Franklin are THE collecting site for fluorescent minerals! If you can't find a glowing rock up there, pack it in and collect stamps. You'll find that the folks at both Sterling Hill and Franklin are knowledgeable and always willing to help out a new collector. I make it out to the NYC/Jersey area about once every 6 months or so and I never fail to see my buds at the mines. Regards, Gary Catspaw Minerals http://www.catspaw-minerals.com Home of the MasMils/PLUS Mine Location Disk > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > TomE61@aol.com > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 9:40 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Upcoming Rocks & Minerals Shows in New > York & NewJersey > > I just happened upon this information and wanted to share it. > > > Mineral Mine is open to the public for collectors. Although > I am not especially fascinated by them, this is reportedly > one of the best collecting sites for fluorescent minerals. > For more information about Sterling Mineral Mine, visit their website: > http://sterlinghill.org/ > > From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sun Sep 19 12:54:39 2004 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sun Sep 19 12:54:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds]Manhattan, (was: I am a new subscriber) In-Reply-To: <200409191922.i8JJM8Vt010775@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: Thanks! It is always nice to have an idea of what a locality looks like, instead of just stuffing rocks in a drawer. I also have a gypsum from Montmartre, downtown Paris (great 5cm crystals) and a pyrite from the Moscow subway. Urban mineralogy if hard, but fun :-) cheers, Maurice -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Gary Brown Sent: 19 September 2004 21:26 To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] I am a new subscriber John Betts has an article on this very subject: http://www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com/jhbnyc/articles/inwood.htm (The above should all be on one line.) If you browse around John's site you'll find out all sorts of neat stuff. He's a Good Guy. Gary Brown Catspaw Minerals http://www.catspaw-minerals.com Home of the MasMils/PLUS Mine Location Disk > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Maurice de Graaf > Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 4:47 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] I am a new subscriber > > Welcome Tom, > > Since you are from Manhattan, you might know the answer to a > question I have. > > Are there (still) mineral localities on Manhattan island? I > do have an Uvite from Inwood park and Mas Mils shows two or > three quarries in the northern half of Manhattan. I have some > trouble installing US Topo, otherwise I could give you the > street names. > > I wondered about these curious localities, since minerals are > not very common in downtown areas. > > cheers, > Maurice _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at aloha.net Sun Sep 19 14:34:28 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Sep 19 14:06:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Franklin (was Upcoming Rocks & Minerals Shows in New York & NewJersey) In-Reply-To: <200409191926.i8JJQDVt011932@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200409191926.i8JJQDVt011932@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040919111839.02ea31a0@mail.aloha.net> There are some others on this list who can speak with far greater authority on the Franklin area than I, though few from as long ago---I first collected there about 1949, as a kid. But my understanding is that there is no place in the world that can compete with Franklin/Ogdensburg for the title of Fluorescent Mineral Capital of the World. The last time I was there (2001) someone at the motel we stayed at said that if you take a fluorescent lamp and shine it down on many roads in the area the pavement will glow, because the gravel was from the mine dumps. Unfortunately they told us that the morning we were leaving, so we couldn't check the validity of that claim, but it sounds right. Aloha, Kitty At 09:30 AM 9/19/2004, you wrote: >You said: "reportedly one of the best collecting sites for fluorescent >minerals"... > >Heck, Ogdensburg and Franklin are THE collecting site for fluorescent >minerals! If you can't find a glowing rock up there, pack it in and collect >stamps. > >Gary From SMKELL45 at aol.com Sun Sep 19 14:46:10 2004 From: SMKELL45 at aol.com (SMKELL45@aol.com) Date: Sun Sep 19 14:46:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Franklin (was Upcoming Rocks & Minerals Shows in New York & ... Message-ID: <1ef.2b4028bf.2e7f5822@aol.com> The autumn Franklin show is always a great one. There could be 100 vendors, many of them outside, along the back road , on the school grounds. Their prices often are lowere and it's a great social gathering. They freely will discuss any questions that you may have - their combined knowledge is awesome. Traditionally their are two inside rooms also. And then there's the museum, just down Buckwheat Road, which goes right by the back of the school. There's also a wonderful pizza joint on the main road that serves a veggie pizza with broccoli- but that's another story. smkell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Lapidry at aol.com Sun Sep 19 16:07:14 2004 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Sun Sep 19 16:07:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Franklin (was Upcoming Rocks & Minerals Shows in New York & ... Message-ID: <96.156d321e.2e7f6b22@aol.com> In a message dated 9/19/2004 5:07:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, kahako@aloha.net writes: The last time I was there (2001) someone at the motel we stayed at said that if you take a fluorescent lamp and shine it down on many roads in the area the pavement will glow, because the gravel was from the mine dumps. Unfortunately they told us that the morning we were leaving, so we couldn't check the validity of that claim, but it sounds right. It's very true. Some driveways also. Also, many of the buildings that used local material for the stone will glow and concrete holds some wonderful material. Some of us got hardystonite from the Parker Mine out of the disintegrating concrete at the annual Trotter Dump dig a few years ago. The gravel had come from the Parker mine. They allow you to take out buckets of fluorescent "sand" free at the dig too. Small grains of calcite and willimite. Kids love them when you give talks on fluorescence and hand out various samples, including a small bag of the sand. Most of the stuff you are hunting for at the Trotter Dump is buried in the sand. Dan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sun Sep 19 17:10:41 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun Sep 19 17:10:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Falls Fossil Festival, Clarksville Indiana References: <003801c49936$eac66210$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <003701c49ea6$44825b50$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Well the Fossil Festival is now history. The weather cooperated beautifully (as usual) and we had huge crowds Saturday, and smaller crowds (but still busy) on Sunday. I am totally exhausted, but because I have a lot of help, its a nice kind of exhaustion! Jim Farlow presented his program on why carnivorous dinosaurs got so large. It was over the heads of 75 of the 87 in the audience, but was well received. A four year old boy raised his hand at the end during the Q&A and asked Jim why T. rex got so big. Oh well, it's very hard to take college level material and make it suitable for that age! Now I've got to survive the IL-KY fluorspar district symposium I am coordinating in more two weeks! Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Goldstein" To: "PaleoList" Cc: Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2004 10:11 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Falls Fossil Festival, Clarksville Indiana Hello, A reminder for all those fossil fanatics out there that the Falls of the Ohio State Park's 10th Falls Fossil Festival will be held the 18th & 19th of this month. We are located across the river from Louisville in Clarksville, Indiana. Please check the web site for a detailed program, we have some top-notch guest speakers and our big "Dinosaurs and More!" exhibit will be nearing the end of its 6 month run. Liter's Quarry will be adding to the Waldron Shale fossil pile, although it is still producing even a year after the last fossil festival. A local collector found a Eucalyptocrinites crassus crown last week! Alan Goldstein Falls Fossil Festival web site: www.fallsoftheohio.org/fossil_festival.shtml --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From TomE61 at aol.com Sun Sep 19 18:44:53 2004 From: TomE61 at aol.com (TomE61@aol.com) Date: Sun Sep 19 18:44:57 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds]Rock Collecting in Manhattan Message-ID: <1cd.2b7dd80a.2e7f9015@aol.com> Maurice, thanks for the welcome. If you come across locations in Manhattan that you're interested in, I'd be happy to check them out for you and report back. Although Manhattan has much to offer, two things you can't do easily are play golf and rockhound. Whenever I travel, I try to explore riverbeds, new construction sites and railroad tracks (assuming, for the last two, that I am not trespassing or placing myself in unnecessary danger). I have heard (John Betts is one good source) that there are collecting opportunities in northern Manhattan, along the riverbeds, but I haven't personally checked it out. I might one of these days. You didn't mention where you're from, but not far from Manhattan, in any direction, are excellent opportunities for rockhounding. An hour north in New York State is not only a beautiful ride, but is home to a good deal of former mines, as well as state parks. Just today I went to the NY-CT border, near Bedford Township and found some nice pieces of quartz, limestone and marble, right along a road. I wasn't really looking so that was an unexpected surprise. If you're interested in other places I've visited (with and without success) in the vicinity of New York City, just let me know. Catch me off list if that's more convenient for you. Same goes for anyone else. I keep an online journal of my travels so it won't be difficult at all to get the information to you. Regards, Tom --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From TomE61 at aol.com Sun Sep 19 19:00:40 2004 From: TomE61 at aol.com (TomE61@aol.com) Date: Sun Sep 19 19:00:52 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] John Betts and Rockhounding in New York Message-ID: Gary, I replied to Maurice before I read your response. You are absolutely right about the John Betts site, and as you point out, there are some really cool things to look at. The field trip list is not only extensive but very thorough, although I have to caution people that some of John's information is outdated or just not accurate as of today. Keeping up with collecting sites can be a full time job all by itself, and unfortunately, the status of some collecting sites changes as quickly as the weather. But all in all, John has done an excellent job of providing a good list of opportunities. In the last year and half, using some of John's suggestions, I've learned something else: Mother Nature has not been very precise in how she placed rocks and minerals in certain locations. In other words, its always worth checking adjacent areas to see if additional collecting sites are available or if there are other rocks and minerals worth collecting. Connecticut is a good example of this. I've gone to Roxbury Falls three (3) times in search of garnets and have not been disappointed. But, in the surrounding areas, I found very rural areas from which I was able to obtain nice specimens of quartz, mica and muscovite. Reports of kyanite in the area might be true, but I haven't found any. And, just last night, I found out that nearby the garnet collecting location is an area called Mine Hill, which purports to be a huge dump, just begging to be exploited. And, to top it off, I also found some really sweet places, along the river, to stop and picnic after I worked up a sweat. Regards, Tom --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From TomE61 at aol.com Sun Sep 19 19:09:57 2004 From: TomE61 at aol.com (TomE61@aol.com) Date: Sun Sep 19 19:10:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Upcoming Rocks & Minerals Shows in New York & NewJersey Message-ID: Gary, I cautiously used the term "reportedly" since I am neither an expert on fluorescent minerals nor do I have much of an interest in them. I'm more of a "see it for what it is" kind of person. For sure, I didn't want to mislead anyone about those sites. But since you chimed in, I have to say that during all my trips to both Sterling and Franklin (at least five in the last year), there have been a large amount of people who were in search of fluorescent rocks and they didn't appear to be disappointed. Both Franklin and Sterling have ultraviolet rooms for viewing specimens, in case you don't have the proper equipment. Many people, though, bring their own lights and black blankets to seek out the glowing treasures. And I have to concur that the staff at both locations are extremely helpful, and know a lot about the specimens you collect. It always enjoyable to visit one or both, and I am hopeful will be very enjoyable this upcoming weekend. Regards, Tom --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From TomE61 at aol.com Sun Sep 19 19:12:07 2004 From: TomE61 at aol.com (TomE61@aol.com) Date: Sun Sep 19 19:12:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] I am a new subscriber Message-ID: Berj, thank you very much for the welcome note. I appreciate it and look forward to sharing ideas, experiences and knowledge with you and the other subscribers. Tom --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From TomE61 at aol.com Sun Sep 19 19:24:58 2004 From: TomE61 at aol.com (TomE61@aol.com) Date: Sun Sep 19 19:25:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE:I am a new subscriber (TomE61@aol.com) (Johan) Message-ID: <1eb.29887c41.2e7f997a@aol.com> Johan, thanks so much for the welcome note. South Africa, eh? Well, as much as love to travel AND enjoy collecting rocks and minerals, I certainly wouldn't mind coming down to visit you at some point. Wouldn't mind also collecting a few diamonds to bring back with me . Yes, there are a good deal of garnets in New York; its our state gem and pretty abundant in the northeastern region. However, I must tell you, that the collecting sites (mines and quarries) are impressive with their advertisements, but not so impressive in real life. CT actually has a few garnet collecting sites that are awesome. I've not yet been disappointed at all. I have some interest in Herks (I'm assuming you mean Herkimer Diamonds) and my cousin and I spent three days in upstate New York searching for those "gems." Again, the web sites of the various places advertised a lot, but in reality, it takes an INORDINATE amount of work to collect very little. The matrix is almost impossible to penetrate, and in doing so, you risk the danger of destroying the somewhat fragile crystals. At least two of the advertised sites were closed down (their web sites were active, but the actual locations weren't). I found one much better place to collect crystals in Pennsylvania, at the Crystal Point Diamond Mine. Its expensive to enter, but worth every penny. If you need or want more information, please let me know. And if you are planning a trip to the United States anytime soon, I'd be happy to provide you with places to visit. Regards, Tom Russell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sun Sep 19 22:21:07 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sun Sep 19 22:15:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Franklin (was Upcoming Rocks & Minerals Shows in NewYork & ... References: <1ef.2b4028bf.2e7f5822@aol.com> Message-ID: <005101c49ed1$a29d7c80$44a3490c@pete> Franklin is great and the rocks sound good, but I could do without the broccoli on a pizza, thank you! Pete P.S., just finished the Denver Show here, I think it was all very good. I'm trying to think if there was any special "new" mineral or minerals--not sure what comes to mind. I enjoyed seeing something new to me, polished rocks (eggs and spheres) from Mysore, India, of spots of red ruby surrounded by a green or blue-green rim said to be kyanite, in turn often surrounded by near-white quartz-rich spots, a matrix of pale green "other stuff". I thought these were cool. No, I haven't check how well the ruby fluoresces (I should!). The fluorescent room at the show was quite spectacular, 11 (if I got that number right) cases of fl. minerals. All the zeolite displays (the theme of the show) were quite good, especially (one of many) the large "theme" case at the entrance to the show, of zeolites from the Pacific Northwest, by Rudy Tschernich (of the Rice Museum). FYI, to all, next year, the Denver show theme is "Cryptocrystalline and other forms of quartz", and in addition to the show, on the weekend before, Friends of Mineralogy/Colorado Chapter will sponsor a mineral symposium on that same them. The symposium will be Sep. 10-11, optional field trips probably on Sep. 12-13, and the show is Sep. 16-18, 2005. I'll write to this List again about this, with more info. best wishes to all, Pete From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Mon Sep 20 04:09:12 2004 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Mon Sep 20 04:09:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds]Rock Collecting in Manhattan In-Reply-To: <1cd.2b7dd80a.2e7f9015@aol.com> Message-ID: >You didn't mention where you're from, I'm from the Netherlands. Pretty far from Manhattan, although once 'we' owned the island :-))) Cheers, Maurice in any direction, are excellent opportunities for rockhounding. An hour north in New York State is not only a beautiful ride, but is home to a good deal of former mines, as well as state parks. Just today I went to the NY-CT border, near Bedford Township and found some nice pieces of quartz, limestone and marble, right along a road. I wasn't really looking so that was an unexpected surprise. If you're interested in other places I've visited (with and without success) in the vicinity of New York City, just let me know. Catch me off list if that's more convenient for you. Same goes for anyone else. I keep an online journal of my travels so it won't be difficult at all to get the information to you. Regards, Tom --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From SMKELL45 at aol.com Mon Sep 20 05:40:53 2004 From: SMKELL45 at aol.com (SMKELL45@aol.com) Date: Mon Sep 20 05:40:57 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds]Rock Collecting in Manhattan Message-ID: <0BAF9F46.28A591EF.0079B709@aol.com> Hi I'm a member of the Mid-Huson Gem & Mineral Society and we are always interested in finding areas close to our poughkeepsie home, for our members to find minerals. Any suggestions would be appreciated. How would I get to your list of local places? Thanx steve From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Mon Sep 20 07:32:24 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Mon Sep 20 07:27:57 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] John Betts and Rockhounding in New York In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200409201427.i8KERtd3025597@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Good points, Tom... Last week's collecting site is this week's condominium site. Earlier this year I went up to my favorite norbergite site a little bit outside of Franklin, NJ and it was GONE under a bunch of McBuildings. I'm glad I didn't trade/sell away all my pieces from there! We really need to be VERY grateful to the guys at both Ogdensburg and Franklin for making sure those sites didn't disappear under development. Another good point you make is to "look around". If a ridge in Roxbury has garnets, it's pretty sure another ridge nearby probably will too. That's why I like my MasMils/PLUS disk (Plug! Plug!). The location of existing, albeit old, mines is a pretty good indicator that you should look around for other things in the vicinity. GcB Catspaw Minerals http://www.catspaw-minerals.com Home of the MasMils/PLUS Mine Location Disk > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > TomE61@aol.com > Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 9:01 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] John Betts and Rockhounding in New York > > > Gary, I replied to Maurice before I read your response. You > are absolutely right about the John Betts site, and as you > point out, there are some really cool things to look at. The > field trip list is not only extensive but very thorough, > although I have to caution people that some of John's > information is outdated or just not accurate as of today. > Keeping up with collecting sites can be a full time job all > by itself, and unfortunately, the status of some collecting > sites changes as quickly as the weather. But all in all, > John has done an excellent job of providing a good list of > opportunities. > > In the last year and half, using some of John's suggestions, > I've learned something else: Mother Nature has not been very > precise in how she placed rocks and minerals in certain > locations. In other words, its always worth checking > adjacent areas to see if additional collecting sites are > available or if there are other rocks and minerals worth collecting. > > Connecticut is a good example of this. I've gone to Roxbury > Falls three (3) times in search of garnets and have not been > disappointed. But, in the surrounding areas, I found very > rural areas from which I was able to obtain nice specimens of > quartz, mica and muscovite. Reports of kyanite in the area > might be true, but I haven't found any. And, just last > night, I found out that nearby the garnet collecting location > is an area called Mine Hill, which purports to be a huge > dump, just begging to be exploited. > > And, to top it off, I also found some really sweet places, > along the river, to stop and picnic after I worked up a sweat. > > Regards, > Tom > From morningstar at att.net Mon Sep 20 07:49:51 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Mon Sep 20 07:49:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] John Betts and Rockhounding in New York Message-ID: <092020041449.13346.414EEE0E000B10610000342221602807489D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> > Last week's collecting site is this week's condominium site. Earlier this > year I went up to my favorite norbergite site a little bit outside of > Franklin, NJ and it was GONE under a bunch of McBuildings. I'm glad I > didn't trade/sell away all my pieces from there! We really need to be VERY > grateful to the guys at both Ogdensburg and Franklin for making sure those > sites didn't disappear under development. Hi Gary, That's too funny, Paul Moore calls them "McMansions." I don't know if you heard while you were out here, but Sterling Hill salvaged quite a bit of that material from the construction site before it was all gone. I don't know if there is any left in the pile at the mine, but if so, you can dig around in there (for a small fee, of course) the next time you are here! Don From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 20 08:07:41 2004 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Mon Sep 20 08:07:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds]Rock Collecting in Manhattan In-Reply-To: <1cd.2b7dd80a.2e7f9015@aol.com> Message-ID: <20040920150741.14828.qmail@web51010.mail.yahoo.com> I grew up in NYC myself- went to high school in Manhattan. I have to agree that you have to react quickly to opportunities. It helps to belong to a club with a good field trip chairman. Back then (50+ years ago) the Queens Mineral Society was so blessed. > > Whenever I travel, I try to explore riverbeds, new > construction sites Also try to find out where the rock being removed from the site is being dumped. When I was about 14, the Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel was being built. A friend found that the rock from the tunnel was being dumped near Jamaica Bay, as fill for what would later become Idlewild (now JFK) Airport. That made for some interesting collecting while it lasted. In 1982, when I lived in NJ, a friend saw some trucks coming out of the long-closed Upper New St. Quarry in Paterson. He followed the trucks and found that the rock was being used for fill on a construction site in Wayne, NJ. As long as that went on, a group of us descended on the site as soon as work stopped each day. It's a wonder they ever filled the area! We collected a lot of very excellent material. Just today I went to > the NY-CT border, near > Bedford Township and found some nice pieces of > quartz, limestone and marble, right > along a road. There was also a quarry years ago in that area that produced a beautiful pink orthoclase. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From shm at tapnet.net Mon Sep 20 09:43:25 2004 From: shm at tapnet.net (SHM) Date: Mon Sep 20 09:44:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Franklin (was: John Betts and Rockhounding in New York) In-Reply-To: <092020041449.13346.414EEE0E000B10610000342221602807489D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: <004d01c49f31$149a58d0$c0e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Hi group, The site that Don refers to is now the Whispering Woods subdivision, just across and up the road a few hundred feet from the entrance to the Sterling Hill Mining Museum. The name adheres to the classic principle of naming subdivisions for what used to be there but had to be destroyed to make room for all those oversized houses. Quite a bit of rock-moving had to be done to prepare the site, and several folks made nightly visits to recover whatever fluorescent specimens were available. Thus the large rock pile at the museum. For those of you coming to the Franklin show this weekend (Sept. 25-26), the Mine Run dump and Passaic and Noble pits will be open to the public for collecting on Sunday, 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. The Whispering Woods rock pile is also open to collecting and is located north of the Mine Run dump. It contains fluorescent norbergite and diopside, some of it equaling the best this area has ever produced. On another but related topic, folks, mark your calendars: October 1 at 3 p.m. marks the 50th anniversary of the last skip of ore to be hauled out of the Franklin mine. Please take a moment to think about that. Cheers- Earl Verbeek > Last week's collecting site is this week's condominium site. Earlier this > year I went up to my favorite norbergite site a little bit outside of > Franklin, NJ and it was GONE under a bunch of McBuildings. I'm glad I > didn't trade/sell away all my pieces from there! We really need to be VERY > grateful to the guys at both Ogdensburg and Franklin for making sure those > sites didn't disappear under development. Hi Gary, That's too funny, Paul Moore calls them "McMansions." I don't know if you heard while you were out here, but Sterling Hill salvaged quite a bit of that material from the construction site before it was all gone. I don't know if there is any left in the pile at the mine, but if so, you can dig around in there (for a small fee, of course) the next time you are here! Don _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From TomE61 at aol.com Mon Sep 20 19:24:50 2004 From: TomE61 at aol.com (TomE61@aol.com) Date: Mon Sep 20 19:25:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds]Rock Collecting in the Hudson Area Message-ID: <75.343f53d5.2e80eaf2@aol.com> Steve, I can certainly e-mail you my journal, if you'd like, but just give me a chance to bring it up to date and clean it up a bit. Its an Excel file and I would be sending it as an attachment. It includes more places than just the Hudson area. While I certainly get an A+ for effort in seeking out collecting sites (either established or just new ones), I have not been so fortunate to identify everything I've collected, so you'll have to bear with me. I'm enjoying the mineral identification process, but right now I am using very high level, simple classifications for the rocks and minerals I've managed to get. Here are some highlights pertaining to the Hudson area; if you already know this information or have acted upon it already, then just read through quickly: 1. The John Betts mineral site has an excellent discussion of collecting areas on Anthony's Nose, which is northeast of the Bear Mountain Bridge and south of Poughkeepsie. There's a lot of history in his article, and a lot of the information may be dated, but its worth a trip there because the area is just so beautiful. 2. I've been several times, and purchased a few hiking maps (Orange, Rockland & Putnam counties) to help me out. These maps have amazing detail and often tell you where a former mine or quarry was located. Not to mention invaluable information about parking and where to find comfort facilities. The bookstore south of Bear Mountain, on the Palisades Parkway, has an excellent collection. 3. Using multiple disciplines is often a good idea. For example, I'm a big American History fan (from colonial through Civil War) and you can find tons of information about mining operations in your area, through that entire historical period. Coupled with some basic knowledge of the area's geology, you should be able to pinpoint some areas of interest worth exploring. 4. I've already mentioned it, but I'm a big fan of exploring railroad tracks (if its not dangerous and not prohibited). It could be because of the Lionel train sets I had as a kid. But some of my research indicates that (especially in upstate New York), when railroad tracks were excavated, the engineers used the left over rock to fill in the railroad bed, thus often preserving some nice rocks and minerals from the area. Talk about early American recycling efforts. Even though today's highspeed trains may have carried material very far up or down the track, its definitely worth a look if you're in the area. I often stop in a village, grab a bite to eat and then walk around the train station to see if I can find anything. 5. Finally, a funny story. Just north of the Bear Mountain Bridge, after a turnoff on the right and up the really rough road, is an entrance to the Appalachian Trail. There's a parking area and the hike is not really that strenous at this location. Right outside the entrance had to be the largest collection of slate (in steel gray, light gray, blue, blue-green, etc.) that I've ever seen. Although not desirable to many, I took a huge specimen for my collection, and some smaller specimens to share with my teacher friends and their students. When I gave the slate to the teachers, I included a piece of chalk and a note that said this is an example of a pre-historic PDA. Got quite a few laughs. And at least I got some enjoyment out of that trip. Steve, when you get a chance, can you tell me more about your mineral association. Is it open to New York City residents? How often do you meet and what kinds of activities do you engage in? Although I've travelled throughout most of the US and to some really great places around the world, in my opinion, the Hudson Valley, from beginning to end, is truly a testament to Mother Nature's good taste and if I can collect some nice specimens in the process, it would please me immensely. Feel free to catch me off list if that's more convenient for you. Cheers, Tom Russell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From TomE61 at aol.com Mon Sep 20 19:37:33 2004 From: TomE61 at aol.com (TomE61@aol.com) Date: Mon Sep 20 19:37:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds]The McBuildings and the McMansions Message-ID: <1d6.2afc0801.2e80eded@aol.com> Gary & Don, I got a big laugh out of your McStories.......I'm still chuckling. I've forgotten more than I remember about places that many years ago, when I was a kid, were pristine environments, but upon recent visits, have turned into huge industrial complexes or even worse, those notorious strip malls with at least one Starbucks and one Subway sandwich shop I think everyone is pretty aware of how much damage can be done to water or forests or any natural area, with the advent of progress, but not many people consider the detrimental effects of upsetting the geology of a particular area. All around the world, we bore, excavate and extract, all in the name of consumer need, and often times, when the area is completely exhausted, its left in a state that can be harmful or even dangerous. I've witnessed first hand areas of the Appalachian trail on which NO vegetation grows because of the enormous amounts of iron oxides that are present in the area, extracted many years ago from a nearby mine, but not profitable enough to smelt. Gary, I'm off the soapbox now. But this is my long-winded way of agreeing with you that we owe an enormous amount of gratitute to organizations like Franklin & Sterling for helping to maintain collecting sites and/or investigate areas under construction for possible rock and mineral prizes. Cheers, Tom Russell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From TomE61 at aol.com Mon Sep 20 20:17:56 2004 From: TomE61 at aol.com (TomE61@aol.com) Date: Mon Sep 20 20:18:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meeting at the Franklin & Sterling Mineral Show This Weekend Message-ID: <1f1.2b4ae36d.2e80f764@aol.com> If any of you are planning on attending the show this weekend, I would welcome the opportunity to hook up and say hello. Kind of put a face to the e-mail. I will be there on Sunday, September 26, 2004 for most of the day, along with my cousin. We will be returning from a trip on Saturday to the Crystal Point Diamond Mine in Williamsport, PA. If any of you have a business and plan on exhibiting at the show, then by all means let me know. We'll stop by and show our support and you can possibly extract some money from us. Both my cousin and I enjoy shopping for reasonably priced specimens. My sister may not be able to attend the show, but I know she is obsessed with crystals. In particular, she is a sucker (and I mean that in ONLY the nicest way) for rose quartz and amethyst and if anyone has a selection for us to look through, I would appreciate knowing that as well. Up to now, I have managed to shield her from discovering the beauty of citrine and other orange and yellow type crystals. I've already been talking to Greg Lesinski of GSL ROCKS and am going to make every effort to stop by and say hello. On another note, although I've seen many web postings about this (and other shows), I've been unable to get an online brochure that lists the exhibitors and some of the events. Perhaps I'm not looking hard enough, it may be out there. But I certainly wouldn't mind contributing my future efforts to help develop advertisements for this and any other show; doesn't even have to be in the eastern part of the U.S. In my most recent career, I was VP of Information Technology and Product Development for a large mutual fund company, so I have access to some comprehensive computer software and the ability to use it, not to mention tons of information about printing on demand. Please feel free to pass along my name to anyone who might benefit from it. In exchange for my services, I would only ask for a modest mineral sample Warmest Regards, Tom Russell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From morningstar at att.net Mon Sep 20 20:37:09 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Mon Sep 20 20:35:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meeting at the Franklin & Sterling Mineral Show This Weekend In-Reply-To: <1f1.2b4ae36d.2e80f764@aol.com> References: <1f1.2b4ae36d.2e80f764@aol.com> Message-ID: <414FA1E5.8080305@att.net> TomE61@aol.com wrote: > If any of you are planning on attending the show this weekend, I would > welcome the opportunity to hook up and say hello. Kind of put a face to the e-mail. I will be busy during that weekend, attending to a college class and other obligations, but I'll send you my cell phone #. > I've already been talking to Greg Lesinski of GSL ROCKS and am going to make > every effort to stop by and say hello. That will be an experience. I will take credit for the idea of a moving van as a portable darkroom, but he has taken it to the next level! > On another note, although I've seen many web postings about this (and other > shows), I've been unable to get an online brochure that lists the exhibitors > and some of the events. ... > In my most recent career, I was VP of Information Technology and Product > Development for a large mutual fund company, so I have access to some > comprehensive computer software and the ability to use it, not to mention tons of > information about printing on demand. I'm not sure if there is anything either, but I know they've lost some of the key personnel who once did that work. I'm also certain they'd welcome any assistance with publicity! There are 3 museums, 2 collecting sites, an indoor and outdoor show as well. You won't be able to do it all! Have fun, Don From Gslrocks at aol.com Tue Sep 21 07:19:48 2004 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Tue Sep 21 07:19:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meeting at the Franklin & Sterling Mineral Show This Weekend Message-ID: <1c2.1ea164a8.2e819284@aol.com> correction, this time i am inside in the darkroom, but my son will be outside with daylight material. I will be floating back and forth as needed. Greg --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From afox at drizzle.com Tue Sep 21 12:51:51 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Tue Sep 21 12:51:54 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collecting Go Stones? Message-ID: I apologize, as I think I might have posted this topic a few years back. But I don't see it in the archives, and lost the replies I think I got sent at the time in a hard drive crash (sigh) Has anyone done the following: 1) Collected stones for a handmade Go board? 2) Found a way to sucessfully tumble / process stones to a go-friendly shape? I suspect that the best option might be beach agates, since they are already naturally tumbled to an oblate elipsoid, but the size variation is pretty great. I thought about trying to tumble something with a distinct schistosity or dominant clevage plane (feldspars), but I'm not sure this would actually work. I imagine getting cut cabs would work, but that seems an expensive option.... I'm just getting into the game, and I think it'd be a fun long-term project to put together a handmade board /set. Not to mention relaxing. a. BTW: If you're not backing up the data on your computer on a regular basis, you should be. Hard drive crashes are all too regular, and all too painfull. Speaking from experience... -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From rockcurrier at cs.com Tue Sep 21 14:38:04 2004 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Tue Sep 21 14:35:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 4, Issue 16 References: <200409160103.i8G13btW027963@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <00e201c4a023$477cb070$ebe2a5d8@Rock5> Dear Pete, I have never heard of anyone being able to save a specimens of pyrite or marcasite once it had manifested significant signs of "pyrite disease". I would be very interested in any success you might have. The British Museum of Natural history, some years ago, attributed the cause of this disease to sulfur eating bacteria which they claimed to have stopped with a solution with a solution of "cetramide"? an anti bacterial agent and a vacuum chamber. Rock From jemstone at amug.org Tue Sep 21 16:06:09 2004 From: jemstone at amug.org (John McLaughlin) Date: Tue Sep 21 16:06:15 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mailing Expensive Stones References: <1c2.1ea164a8.2e819284@aol.com> Message-ID: <006801c4a02f$961fa5a0$f25a2741@MCWIDOM> I am shipping a fair number of precious stones by first class mail to locations in the US. I have already determined that Priority Mail arrives at about the same time as first class, but I'm up in the air about insurance and registration. On the one hand insurance would be comforting. On the other insurance and registered delivery would seem to make a target of the packages. Plus, I am not aware of how difficult it would be to collect on the insurance should I suffer a loss. Over time, the savings in insurance would cover a moderate loss. Any wisdom regarding how to ship small valuable packages and the difficulty (or lack of difficulty) in getting the insurance payment for a lost parcel? I could also use UPS, but that service does not seem better than the post office and the packages I ship are usually padded envelopes or small boxes. Thanks, John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Tue Sep 21 17:22:29 2004 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Tue Sep 21 17:22:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mailing Expensive Stones Message-ID: <29.62705756.2e821fc5@aol.com> John; I doubt that even owning your own armored car is 100% secure. The USPS for domestic shipments would be my choice. Priority insured or registered. I ship and receive personal stones that way. I also do valuable fossils that way. The good point is that theft from the US Mail is a federal felony. If the item is pretty valuable the Feds take theft pretty seriously, though today they have other priorities. Keep good records and receipts for claims. If I recall the Smithsonian received the Hope Diamond in US registered Mail. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE In a message dated 9/21/2004 7:06:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, jemstone@amug.org writes: I am shipping a fair number of precious stones by first class mail to locations in the US. I have already determined that Priority Mail arrives at about the same time as first class, but I'm up in the air about insurance and registration. On the one hand insurance would be comforting. On the other insurance and registered delivery would seem to make a target of the packages. Plus, I am not aware of how difficult it would be to collect on the insurance should I suffer a loss. Over time, the savings in insurance would cover a moderate loss. Any wisdom regarding how to ship small valuable packages and the difficulty (or lack of difficulty) in getting the insurance payment for a lost parcel? I could also use UPS, but that service does not seem better than the post office and the packages I ship are usually padded envelopes or small boxes. Thanks, John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jbryankramer at msn.com Tue Sep 21 18:29:35 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Sep 21 18:29:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mailing Expensive Stones In-Reply-To: <29.62705756.2e821fc5@aol.com> Message-ID: <005a01c4a043$9f5a6150$6601a8c0@bryan> Well it may be a felony but I don't think they take it too seriously. I have a subscription to one of the DVD rental services and began to notice that the time from when I got an email notice that a DVD was shipped to the time I got it in the mailbox had taken a sudden turn for the worse. Furthermore examination of the tardy DVD mailers showed that they had been tampered with. What seemed to be happening was that somewhere in the local mail distribution system someone was pulling these mailers out of the mail, doing something with them for several days and then putting them back in the mail. A complaint to the local post office only got the mechanic's shrug. They even denied knowing that such a critter as a postal investigator existed. I tracked down the postal investigator and she apparently scared them enough that I only find an occasional tampered with mailer now. One of the people I work with had the same problem. So don't trust the Post Office is my advice. UPS and FEDEX at least have total package tracking to keep their employees honest. Bryan -------Original Message----- -- --I doubt that even owning your own armored car is 100% secure. -- -- --The USPS for domestic shipments would be my choice. Priority --insured or --registered. I ship and receive personal stones that way. I --also do valuable fossils --that way. The good point is that theft from the US Mail is a --federal felony. --If the item is pretty valuable the Feds take theft pretty --seriously, though --today they have other priorities. Keep good records and --receipts for claims. -- --If I recall the Smithsonian received the Hope Diamond in US --registered Mail. -- --Gene Hartstein --Newark, DE -- -- --In a message dated 9/21/2004 7:06:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, --jemstone@amug.org writes: --I am shipping a fair number of precious stones by first class --mail to locations in the US. I have already determined that --Priority Mail arrives at about the same time as first class, --but I'm up in the air about insurance and registration. -- --On the one hand insurance would be comforting. On the other --insurance and registered delivery would seem to make a target --of the packages. Plus, I am not aware of how difficult it --would be to collect on the insurance should I suffer a loss. --Over time, the savings in insurance would cover a moderate loss. -- --Any wisdom regarding how to ship small valuable packages and --the difficulty (or lack of difficulty) in getting the --insurance payment for a lost parcel? I could also use UPS, --but that service does not seem better than the post office --and the packages I ship are usually padded envelopes or small boxes. -- --Thanks, -- --John McLaughlin --Glendale, Arizona -- -- ----- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative -- text/plain (text body -- kept) -- text/html ----- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- From bombastus at worldnet.att.net Tue Sep 21 18:30:16 2004 From: bombastus at worldnet.att.net (Homer Eshbaugh) Date: Tue Sep 21 18:30:25 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] "New" Mineral? Message-ID: <002201c4a043$b7d466e0$6698490c@HHEPC> ----- Original Message ----- From: Homer Eshbaugh To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 8:27 PM Subject: "New" Mineral? Hello to the group - I recently saw an add for an egg made out of "Nummulite". It's described as "Nummulite Oceanic Egg" and "a new kind of egg". Intrigued, I e-mailed the seller for more details. I was told "It is a new product that came out, I was curios about it too, and have not been able to find info on it. But my impression is that it is a marine type of fossil. Like algage or something like that." I've included the picture. It looks vaguely familiar, but I can't place it. Has anyone ever heard of this? If so, what is it? I'd appreciate some expert help. Thanks. Homer --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg --- From rpr at nike.heidelberg.edu Tue Sep 21 18:45:31 2004 From: rpr at nike.heidelberg.edu (Pete Richards) Date: Tue Sep 21 18:45:40 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] pyrite disease In-Reply-To: <00e201c4a023$477cb070$ebe2a5d8@Rock5> References: <200409160103.i8G13btW027963@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <00e201c4a023$477cb070$ebe2a5d8@Rock5> Message-ID: Hi Rock, Yeah, it's a tough one. The main culprit is oxygen. Acidity and moisture contribute. One could keep specimens in an oxygen-free environment by bathing them in a nearly sealed container with a low flow of nitrogen gas, or keep them in a 0% humidity atmosphere (50% apparently is a pretty good compromise for those who do not live in Arizona). All one can do is slow down the "disease", and most folks can't afford the high tech to slow it down by orders of magnitude. I have had the specimen I wrote about for about 30 years, so another order of magnitude would be good enough for me.... The irony (no pun intended) is that many of these specimens have existed for hundreds of thousands or millions of years within feet to tens of feet of the earth's surface, and are perfectly fine when collected, but fall apart within tens of years or less of being collected. This is because they have lived their long early lives in an environment free of oxygen! Maybe this problem gives new meaning to the term "fool's gold"! Cheers, Pete -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh From mosasaur47 at msn.com Tue Sep 21 18:52:56 2004 From: mosasaur47 at msn.com (Kenneth Quinn) Date: Tue Sep 21 18:55:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] "New" Mineral? References: <002201c4a043$b7d466e0$6698490c@HHEPC> Message-ID: You wrote: I recently saw an add for an egg made out of "Nummulite". It's described as "Nummulite Oceanic Egg" and "a new kind of egg". Intrigued, I e-mailed the seller for more details. My reply: No picture was attached. However, Nummulites limestone is an Eocene limestone in Egypt, full of the fossil remnants of these one-celled organisms. The size of each fossil is extremely large for a one-celled creature; each "shell" is a round wafer a centimeter or more in diameter. HTH Kenneth Quinn From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Sep 21 19:09:24 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Sep 21 19:06:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collecting Go Stones? References: Message-ID: <4150DE14.27E5@Tomaszewski.net> Aaron, Just a thought... If you used a core drill to cut cylinders, slabbed them into 'coins', and tumbled them you would probably end up with nice go stones. Most of the wear in tumbling slabbed shapes occurs at the sharp edges. Alternately, use the core drill and slab the coins, and then rough form them to get an appropriate edge shape before tumbling, but start on medium or fine grit so that minimal surface/shape changes occur. Kreigh Aaron Fox wrote: > > I apologize, as I think I might have posted this topic a few years back. > But I don't see it in the archives, and lost the replies I think I got > sent at the time in a hard drive crash (sigh) > > Has anyone done the following: > > 1) Collected stones for a handmade Go board? > 2) Found a way to sucessfully tumble / process stones to a go-friendly > shape? > > I suspect that the best option might be beach agates, since they are > already naturally tumbled to an oblate elipsoid, but the size variation is > pretty great. I thought about trying to tumble something with a distinct > schistosity or dominant clevage plane (feldspars), but I'm not sure this > would actually work. > > I imagine getting cut cabs would work, but that seems an expensive > option.... > > I'm just getting into the game, and I think it'd be a fun long-term > project to put together a handmade board /set. Not to mention relaxing. > > a. > > BTW: If you're not backing up the data on your computer on a regular > basis, you should be. Hard drive crashes are all too regular, and all too > painfull. Speaking from experience... > > -- > afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox > FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your > computer. Press any key to reboot From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Sep 21 19:20:53 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Sep 21 19:17:49 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mailing Expensive Stones References: <1c2.1ea164a8.2e819284@aol.com> <006801c4a02f$961fa5a0$f25a2741@MCWIDOM> Message-ID: <4150E0C3.25FA@Tomaszewski.net> Most of the rocks I purchase, even those under $20, come insured priority mail and I have to sign to receive them. I'm not sure, but I think registered only adds a layer of tracking, but I suspect it would also make it harder to steal because of the tracking. I personally ship rocks just priority mail and have never had a package go astray. But I would probably add insurance if it was valuable (like over $500). YMMV. Keep your receipts and records so you have the paperwork needed to make a claim. Kreigh John McLaughlin wrote: > > I am shipping a fair number of precious stones by first class mail to > locations in the US. I have already determined that Priority Mail arrives > at about the same time as first class, but I'm up in the air about insurance > and registration. > > On the one hand insurance would be comforting. On the other insurance and > registered delivery would seem to make a target of the packages. Plus, I am > not aware of how difficult it would be to collect on the insurance should I > suffer a loss. Over time, the savings in insurance would cover a moderate > loss. > > Any wisdom regarding how to ship small valuable packages and the difficulty > (or lack of difficulty) in getting the insurance payment for a lost parcel? > I could also use UPS, but that service does not seem better than the post > office and the packages I ship are usually padded envelopes or small boxes. > > Thanks, > > John McLaughlin > Glendale, Arizona From jemstone at amug.org Tue Sep 21 19:33:08 2004 From: jemstone at amug.org (John McLaughlin) Date: Tue Sep 21 19:33:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mailing Expensive Stones References: <005a01c4a043$9f5a6150$6601a8c0@bryan> Message-ID: <01ca01c4a04c$800d4b10$f25a2741@MCWIDOM> I wonder if that could be due to the package being recognizable as a CD, making it a target. That has been my concern with registration and insurance, though the insurance stamp on the package does not state a value. I have shipped a fair number of packages with no problems, but . . . John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Mailing Expensive Stones > Well it may be a felony but I don't think they take it too seriously. I have > a subscription to one of the DVD rental services and began to notice that > the time from when I got an email notice that a DVD was shipped to the time > I got it in the mailbox had taken a sudden turn for the worse. > > Furthermore examination of the tardy DVD mailers showed that they had been > tampered with. What seemed to be happening was that somewhere in the local > mail distribution system someone was pulling these mailers out of the mail, > doing something with them for several days and then putting them back in the > mail. A complaint to the local post office only got the mechanic's shrug. > They even denied knowing that such a critter as a postal investigator > existed. > > I tracked down the postal investigator and she apparently scared them enough > that I only find an occasional tampered with mailer now. One of the people I > work with had the same problem. So don't trust the Post Office is my advice. > UPS and FEDEX at least have total package tracking to keep their employees > honest. > > Bryan From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Sep 21 19:38:36 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Sep 21 19:35:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] "New" Mineral? References: <002201c4a043$b7d466e0$6698490c@HHEPC> Message-ID: <4150E4EA.201B@Tomaszewski.net> Pictures and attachments are not allowed on the list to protect against computer viri. If you want us to see a picture you either have to post it on a website, or mail it privately off-list to those interested. Doing a Google search on 'Nummulite' finds it is a coin shaped marine protozoa fossil of the genus Nummulites and allied generia, order Foraminfierida, with numerous whorls coiled in a plane spiral, the whorls being divided into chambers by septa. They are useful as index fossils, appearing commonly in Tertiary rocks, especially Eocene. They are found in sizes up to about 6 cm. I'll leave it to you to go thru the 3,740 web pages Google found for the rest of the details about this fossil -- I only looked at the first couple hits that were from online encyclopedia articles. Kreigh Homer Eshbaugh wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Homer Eshbaugh > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 8:27 PM > Subject: "New" Mineral? > > Hello to the group - > > I recently saw an add for an egg made out of "Nummulite". It's described as "Nummulite Oceanic Egg" and "a new kind of egg". Intrigued, I e-mailed the seller for more details. > > I was told "It is a new product that came out, I was curios about it too, and have not been able to find info on it. But my impression is that it is a marine type of fossil. Like algage or something like that." > > I've included the picture. It looks vaguely familiar, but I can't place it. Has anyone ever heard of this? If so, what is it? I'd appreciate some expert help. Thanks. > > Homer > From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Tue Sep 21 19:43:12 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Tue Sep 21 19:43:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] "New" Mineral? References: <002201c4a043$b7d466e0$6698490c@HHEPC> Message-ID: <004601c4a04d$e7b5bdf0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> It is possible that the egg was polished out of a limestone composed of numerous Nummulites skeletons as Kenneth said. Nummulites is one of the largest foraminferas that exists in the fossil record. "Foram" is a fancy word for an amoeba-type creature that secretes a shell - in this case calcium carbonate. Egyptian limestone is famous for Nummulites, a discoidal-shape shell up to 2.5 cm (+/-) in diameter and 1 mm thick. Alan G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth Quinn" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] "New" Mineral? > You wrote: > I recently saw an add for an egg made out of "Nummulite". It's described > as "Nummulite Oceanic Egg" and "a new kind of egg". Intrigued, I e-mailed > the seller for more details. > > My reply: > > No picture was attached. However, Nummulites limestone is an Eocene > limestone in Egypt, full of the fossil remnants of these one-celled > organisms. The size of each fossil is extremely large for a one-celled > creature; each "shell" is a round wafer a centimeter or more in diameter. > HTH > > Kenneth Quinn _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Sep 21 19:48:34 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Sep 21 19:45:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] pyrite disease References: <200409160103.i8G13btW027963@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <00e201c4a023$477cb070$ebe2a5d8@Rock5> Message-ID: <4150E73E.6BD2@Tomaszewski.net> Pete, Check out http://www.korrnet.org/kgms/feb-01/feb01-8.htm where Sally Shelton from the San Diego Natural History Museum gives an overview of curing pyrite disease and tells you where to get specific details. Humidity under 45% (minimum) is key as it is caused by humidity driven oxidation. Kreigh Pete Richards wrote: > > Hi Rock, > > Yeah, it's a tough one. The main culprit is oxygen. Acidity and moisture contribute. One could keep specimens in an oxygen-free environment by bathing them in a nearly sealed container with a low flow of nitrogen gas, or keep them in a 0% humidity atmosphere (50% apparently is a pretty good compromise for those who do not live in Arizona). All one can do is slow down the "disease", and most folks can't afford the high tech to slow it down by orders of magnitude. I have had the specimen I wr > > The irony (no pun intended) is that many of these specimens have existed for hundreds of thousands or millions of years within feet to tens of feet of the earth's surface, and are perfectly fine when collected, but fall apart within tens of years or less of being collected. This is because they have lived their long early lives in an environment free of oxygen! > > Maybe this problem gives new meaning to the term "fool's gold"! > > Cheers, > Pete From morningstar at att.net Tue Sep 21 20:02:23 2004 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Tue Sep 21 20:00:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mailing Expensive Stones In-Reply-To: <4150E0C3.25FA@Tomaszewski.net> References: <1c2.1ea164a8.2e819284@aol.com> <006801c4a02f$961fa5a0$f25a2741@MCWIDOM> <4150E0C3.25FA@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <4150EB3F.9010302@att.net> Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > I'm not sure, but I think registered only adds a layer of tracking, but > I suspect it would also make it harder to steal because of the tracking. Here is your answer, courtesy of my former employment with Pitney Bowes and my occasional need to handle classified information: Registered mail follows a chain of custody and is stored in a more secure manner than standard mail. It does not provide insurance or delivery confirmation, these services must be purchased separately. In fact, registered mail may be used to convey SECRET data if properly packaged: http://www.usda.gov/da/pdsd/SecurityGuideEmployees/Mailing.htm Although I am not happy with the USPS at the moment, I trust registered mail as much as I trust anything else. The return receipt option should be used. http://www.mailservice.bf.umich.edu/usps_special_services.htm Mail safely, Don From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Sep 21 20:38:38 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Sep 21 20:35:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 3, Issue 27 (is this rose quartz?) References: <200408260101.i7Q11Vhr029272@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <00da01c492eb$3a7e1d90$eef9a5d8@Rock5> <413B3014.25B1@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <4150F2F2.3CBF@Tomaszewski.net> I got the lab results back and can finally confirm this was not rose quartz. But a potassium feldspar druze on quartz is almost as interesting and unusual. XRD analysis would be needed to differentiate between orthoclase or microcline, which are the possibilities the lab found. Analysis of the 'feldspar' in the body shows it is really a mixture of albite, K-feldspars (plagioclase dominant), and quartz. The black mineral turned out to be epidote (or something really close). The unknown green mineral was malachite, overlaying quartz; it might be an unlikely artifact, or the result of glacial interaction with copper and weathering, given its location -- it was certainly not a normal habit for this mineral. This is an unusual specimen and I still wish I could identify a source location for this glacial cobble. Kreigh Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > Rock, > > As someone pointed out, I had made a typo in the URLs. They should have > been > > http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images/Will13.jpg > http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images/Will14.jpg > http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images/Will15.jpg > http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images/Will16.jpg > http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images/Will17.jpg > http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images/Will18.jpg > http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images/Will19.jpg > > and I added > > http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images/Will24.jpg > http://tomaszew.cnc.net/Images/Will25.jpg > > Kreigh > > Rock Currier wrote: > > > > Dear Kreigh, > > Unfortunately I could not open any of the jpeg images or the "rose > > quartz" specimen. You might care to send them to me directly as email > > attachments at rockcurrier@cs.com. The specimen might not be worth the cost > > of finding out what it is. You will have to make that decision. If it is > > truly a specimen of rose quartz crystals from an Michigan locality, it would > > be quite unusual. Perhaps the people at the Seaman Museum might be willing > > to give you their opinion about it. > > > > Yours truly, Rock > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From afox at drizzle.com Tue Sep 21 21:50:51 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Tue Sep 21 21:50:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 3, Issue 27 (is this rose quartz?) In-Reply-To: <4150F2F2.3CBF@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: > But a potassium feldspar druze on quartz is almost as interesting and > unusual. XRD analysis would be needed to differentiate between > orthoclase or microcline, which are the possibilities the lab found. Almost sounds like from the outskirts of an alaskite dike; stuff gets really, really wierd by the time a magma has fractionated that much? I think I remember, as an undergrad, that you could *sometimes* tell the difference between orthoclase based on that wierd tartan-like twinning under a polarizing scope. Or is that sanadine and microcline? Regardless, it would probably involve some specimen distruction, neh? Interesting article here on sanidine overgrowths in a sandstone in Brazil: http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/embpcgi.pl/cgi-bin/res-page.epl?objid=382762 and another: http://pubs.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/mineral/tcm-101341-4.html > This is an unusual specimen and I still wish I could identify a source > location for this glacial cobble. Hrm. Is "Somewhere in Eastern Canada" good enough for the label? :-) Seriously, though, I'm always astonished at the wide variety of lithologies when I'm drilling, test-pitting, or excavating in glacial outwash deposits here in the Puget Sound. Most of the stuff appears to come from the Canadian Rockies (or is of local origin; Snoqualmie Batholith, or some of the exotic terranes that make up the N 1/2 of the state). However, every once in a while, I'm plesantly surpised. Enough rambling for one evening. Back to Full Metal Alchemist.... a. -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From Lapadary at aol.com Tue Sep 21 22:43:42 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Tue Sep 21 22:43:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 3, Issue 27 (is this rose quartz?) Message-ID: <1c3.1eac8c1a.2e826b0e@aol.com> In a message dated 9/21/04 8:35:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: I got the lab results back and can finally confirm this was not rose quartz. But a potassium feldspar druze on quartz is almost as interesting and unusual. XRD analysis would be needed to differentiate between orthoclase or microcline, which are the possibilities the lab found. Analysis of the 'feldspar' in the body shows it is really a mixture of albite, K-feldspars (plagioclase dominant), and quartz. The black mineral turned out to be epidote (or something really close). The unknown green mineral was malachite, overlaying quartz; it might be an unlikely artifact, or the result of glacial interaction with copper and weathering, given its location -- it was certainly not a normal habit for this mineral. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kreigh, Can I ask how you got it tested? For example, was it done by a 'for profit' lab or a University? I have a specimen from a road cut in Bolado Park, which sits right on top of the San Andreas fault. I think the piece is gypsum that filled a pretty big crevice. However, I washed it in Oxalic acid, expecting a fast reaction. After 10 minutes it not only failed to fizz, it stayed dirty. I'm afraid to leave it in oxalic longer or to put it in muriatic acid. I have sent a specimen of another unknown (Miramar) to Don (morningstar) for identification in the past. He did that one for free but I don't like taking advantage of friendships. And I don't mind paying for some test on this other piece but I'm not sure where to send it. One thing, I don't think it is valuable, I'm just curious. Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at aloha.net Wed Sep 22 00:16:54 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Sep 21 23:49:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re Subject line---was:Rockhounds Digest, Vol 3, Issue 27 (is this rose quartz?) In-Reply-To: <1c3.1eac8c1a.2e826b0e@aol.com> References: <1c3.1eac8c1a.2e826b0e@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040921205448.02ec1a90@mail.aloha.net> Folks, this has happened before...we have a subject line that is "Rockhounds Digest Vol (whatever number), Issue (whatever number), and then a topic that---to my knowledge--- has nothing to do with a volume or issue number of anything. Am I being stupid (again)? Is there something I'm missing here ( again)? Does this have to do with people who subscribe to the list in digest form (and I only recently found out what that is)? I like to keep track of what's happening on this list, and the subject line is how I can do that, especially if I've been away from the computer for a while. So if this a matter of people who view this list on digest form, would you please change the subject line to reflect what the topic really is? Mahalo! (Hawaiian for "Thank you") Kitty From neilvojr at comcast.net Wed Sep 22 02:43:50 2004 From: neilvojr at comcast.net (Neil) Date: Wed Sep 22 02:47:10 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mailing Expensive Stones In-Reply-To: <01ca01c4a04c$800d4b10$f25a2741@MCWIDOM> References: <005a01c4a043$9f5a6150$6601a8c0@bryan> <01ca01c4a04c$800d4b10$f25a2741@MCWIDOM> Message-ID: <41514956.1010202@comcast.net> I'm a retired postal worker and I can say from working inside one of the postal services' large windowless buildings for 24 of my 26 years, that, Yes stuff will go amiss from time to time. Considering that the USPS is one of the largest employers in the world, somewhere around 700,000 - 800,000, and I'm not sure if that includes supervisors and inspection service, that the amount of theft by employees is probably much less than UPS or FEDEX percentage wise. In the large facilities there are galleries with mirrored windows above the workroom floor, one never knows when there is a camera or postal inspector looking out, or when the person working that has been working next to you for the past several months is a postal inspector. Is smaller facilities there are other ways the mail stream is monitored. Probably the most common way for mail to go amiss, is improper packaging. The second is, I would say is getting ground up in the works, UPS has basically the exact same package handling systems as the USPS. Letter and small package handling has gotten faster and faster - where in the past every piece of mail was touched by someone in its movement through the system, now the first person that may touch your letter is your carrier. You drop a piece of mail in a letter box or slot at a post office, it falls in a collection tub. The tub is picked up and emptied into a larger lined hamper, wheeled into a truck and transported (mostly by private contractor) to the nearest sorting facility. There it is dumped and sorted and trayed and delivered automatically to equipment that can process it. Addresses are read by scanning equipment, which can even read and process hand written addresses. The small percentage which cannot be figured out by computer processing, an image is sent to a remote facility were an actual person gets to see it (the image) and direct it properly. Mail is sorted automatically right down to the local carrier in his or her route order. It is possible that he is the first person to have actually touched that piece of mail since you dropped it into the letter box. Mail traveling through this hi speed system can be accelerated to speeds up to 60 mph from a standing start. Loose items (coins and whatnot) in envelopes tend to cause jams in the equipment. The third way is probably improper addressing, the fourth, and its a very, very small percentage is theft.. The USPS Postal Inspection Service has a 95 percent conviction rate - its just plain stupid to steal mail. The most secure way, although slower, is to send high value items is registered mail, where it travels in locked containers and is accounted for and tracked at each stop. Priority mail travels the same as first class mail. Insurance and delivery conformation for anything over $20 work for me. You can visit the USPS.com site where most of you mailing questions can be answered and contact information can be found if they cannot. Suspect your mail has been tampered with or stolen - the inspection service is only a phone call away and the number is on the site. In my opinion, you get the biggest bang for your buck with the USPS, and it is one of the best darn delivery systems in the world, and is getting better every day. Like I say "only my opinion" Neil Van Oost Waretown, New Jersey John McLaughlin wrote: >I wonder if that could be due to the package being recognizable as a CD, >making it a target. That has been my concern with registration and >insurance, though the insurance stamp on the package does not state a value. >I have shipped a fair number of packages with no problems, but . . . > >John McLaughlin >Glendale, Arizona > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "J Bryan Kramer" >Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Mailing Expensive Stones > > > > >>Well it may be a felony but I don't think they take it too seriously. I >> >> >have > > >>a subscription to one of the DVD rental services and began to notice that >>the time from when I got an email notice that a DVD was shipped to the >> >> >time > > >>I got it in the mailbox had taken a sudden turn for the worse. >> >>Furthermore examination of the tardy DVD mailers showed that they had been >>tampered with. What seemed to be happening was that somewhere in the local >>mail distribution system someone was pulling these mailers out of the >> >> >mail, > > >>doing something with them for several days and then putting them back in >> >> >the > > >>mail. A complaint to the local post office only got the mechanic's shrug. >>They even denied knowing that such a critter as a postal investigator >>existed. >> >>I tracked down the postal investigator and she apparently scared them >> >> >enough > > >>that I only find an occasional tampered with mailer now. One of the people >> >> >I > > >>work with had the same problem. So don't trust the Post Office is my >> >> >advice. > > >>UPS and FEDEX at least have total package tracking to keep their employees >>honest. >> >>Bryan >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Wed Sep 22 06:05:26 2004 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Wed Sep 22 06:05:39 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mailing Expensive Stones Message-ID: <36053F5D.34ACF283.02180873@aol.com> Neil: You said it better than I ever could. Gene In a message dated 9/22/2004 5:43:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Neil writes: >I'm a retired postal worker and I can say from working inside one of the >postal services' large windowless buildings for 24 of my 26 years, that, >Yes stuff will go amiss from time to time. Considering that the USPS is >one of the largest employers in the world, somewhere around 700,000 - >800,000, and I'm not sure if that includes supervisors and inspection >service, that the amount of theft by employees is probably much less >than UPS or FEDEX percentage wise. In the large facilities there are >galleries with mirrored windows above the workroom floor, one never >knows when there is a camera or postal inspector looking out, or when >the person working that has been working next to you for the past >several months is a postal inspector. Is smaller facilities there are >other ways the mail stream is monitored. Probably the most common way >for mail to go amiss, is improper packaging. The second is, I would say >is getting ground up in the works, UPS has basically the exact same >package handling systems as the USPS. Letter and small package handling >has gotten faster and faster - where in the past every piece of mail was >touched by someone in its movement through the system, now the first >person that may touch your letter is your carrier. > >You drop a piece of mail in a letter box or slot at a post office, it >falls in a collection tub. The tub is picked up and emptied into a >larger lined hamper, wheeled into a truck and transported (mostly by >private contractor) to the nearest sorting facility. There it is dumped >and sorted and trayed and delivered automatically to equipment that can >process it. Addresses are read by scanning equipment, which can even >read and process hand written addresses. The small percentage which >cannot be figured out by computer processing, an image is sent to a >remote facility were an actual person gets to see it (the image) and >direct it properly. Mail is sorted automatically right down to the local >carrier in his or her route order. It is possible that he is the first >person to have actually touched that piece of mail since you dropped it >into the letter box. > >Mail traveling through this hi speed system can be accelerated to speeds >up to 60 mph from a standing start. Loose items (coins and whatnot) in >envelopes tend to cause jams in the equipment. The third way is probably >improper addressing, the fourth, and its a very, very small percentage >is theft.. The USPS Postal Inspection Service has a 95 percent >conviction rate - its just plain stupid to steal mail. > >The most secure way, although slower, is to send high value items is >registered mail, where it travels in locked containers and is accounted >for and tracked at each stop. Priority mail travels the same as first >class mail. Insurance and delivery conformation for anything over $20 >work for me. You can visit the USPS.com site where most of you mailing >questions can be answered and contact information can be found if they >cannot. Suspect your mail has been tampered with or stolen - the >inspection service is only a phone call away and the number is on the site. > >In my opinion, you get the biggest bang for your buck with the USPS, and >it is one of the best darn delivery systems in the world, and is getting >better every day. > >Like I say "only my opinion" >Neil Van Oost >Waretown, New Jersey > > >John McLaughlin wrote: > >>I wonder if that could be due to the package being recognizable as a CD, >>making it a target. ?That has been my concern with registration and >>insurance, though the insurance stamp on the package does not state a value. >>I have shipped a fair number of packages with no problems, but . . . >> >>John McLaughlin >>Glendale, Arizona >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "J Bryan Kramer" >>Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Mailing Expensive Stones >> >> >> ? >> >>>Well it may be a felony but I don't think they take it too seriously. I >>> ? ? >>> >>have >> ? >> >>>a subscription to one of the DVD rental services and began to notice that >>>the time from when I got an email notice that a DVD was shipped to the >>> ? ? >>> >>time >> ? >> >>>I got it in the mailbox had taken a sudden turn for the worse. >>> >>>Furthermore examination of the tardy DVD mailers showed that they had been >>>tampered with. What seemed to be happening was that somewhere in the local >>>mail distribution system someone was pulling these mailers out of the >>> ? ? >>> >>mail, >> ? >> >>>doing something with them for several days and then putting them back in >>> ? ? >>> >>the >> ? >> >>>mail. A complaint to the local post office only got the mechanic's shrug. >>>They even denied knowing that such a critter as a postal investigator >>>existed. >>> >>>I tracked down the postal investigator and she apparently scared them >>> ? ? >>> >>enough >> ? >> >>>that I only find an occasional tampered with mailer now. One of the people >>> ? ? >>> >>I >> ? >> >>>work with had the same problem. So don't trust the Post Office is my >>> ? ? >>> >>advice. >> ? >> >>>UPS and FEDEX at least have total package tracking to keep their employees >>>honest. >>> >>>Bryan >>> ? ? >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> ? >> > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > ?text/plain (text body -- kept) > ?text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From newryqs at rochester.rr.com Wed Sep 22 06:28:34 2004 From: newryqs at rochester.rr.com (Van) Date: Wed Sep 22 06:28:50 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] pyrite disease References: <200409160103.i8G13btW027963@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <00e201c4a023$477cb070$ebe2a5d8@Rock5> Message-ID: <000d01c4a0a8$10017f60$5df64342@nathanqa8gl7gx> Hi Pete ans All, I keep my precious marcasite from Skowhegan, Maine on top of my toaster oven. Low tech, but it keeps the microbes at bay. Van ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Richards" To: "Rock Currier" ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 9:45 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] pyrite disease > Hi Rock, > > Yeah, it's a tough one. The main culprit is oxygen. Acidity and moisture > contribute. One could keep specimens in an oxygen-free environment by > bathing them in a nearly sealed container with a low flow of nitrogen gas, > or keep them in a 0% humidity atmosphere (50% apparently is a pretty good > compromise for those who do not live in Arizona). All one can do is slow > down the "disease", and most folks can't afford the high tech to slow it > down by orders of magnitude. I have had the specimen I wrote about for > about 30 years, so another order of magnitude would be good enough for > me.... > > The irony (no pun intended) is that many of these specimens have existed > for hundreds of thousands or millions of years within feet to tens of feet > of the earth's surface, and are perfectly fine when collected, but fall > apart within tens of years or less of being collected. This is because > they have lived their long early lives in an environment free of oxygen! > > Maybe this problem gives new meaning to the term "fool's gold"! > > Cheers, > Pete > -- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > R. Peter Richards > rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu > > Mineral collector > Crystallographer > SHAPE for the Macintosh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From xossfs at yahoo.com Wed Sep 22 06:34:12 2004 From: xossfs at yahoo.com (Stephen Stover) Date: Wed Sep 22 06:34:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Games out of Stone. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040922133412.69022.qmail@web20023.mail.yahoo.com> Coool Idea... I am a geming enthusist to and have thought of ladiary versions of amny baord game that are not as traditional. German style games being my thoughts. for those on the list that are not gam-ophiles this is a new breed of games that come out of early German game design for older teens and adults, high strategy, low luck, plays in an hour or two, easy to explain, normally many different routes to winning, and has few to no dice roles. I was thinking of board gmaes like Settlers of Catan, Dragon Delta, eurphrates and tigris and others. Each of these would be a challenge for a good lapadarist in that the boards are colorful and intrict. With many board pieces and card decks. The cards can be made as tiles of stone that are laid in fornt of a player like dominoes. For any one interested in looking at what these game look like check the following link and type in the name provided above http://www.boardgamegeek.com There are many more games that could be a strong challenge. --- Aaron Fox wrote: > I apologize, as I think I might have posted this > topic a few years back. > But I don't see it in the archives, and lost the > replies I think I got > sent at the time in a hard drive crash (sigh) > > Has anyone done the following: > > 1) Collected stones for a handmade Go board? > 2) Found a way to sucessfully tumble / process > stones to a go-friendly > shape? > > I suspect that the best option might be beach > agates, since they are > already naturally tumbled to an oblate elipsoid, but > the size variation is > pretty great. I thought about trying to tumble > something with a distinct > schistosity or dominant clevage plane (feldspars), > but I'm not sure this > would actually work. > > I imagine getting cut cabs would work, but that > seems an expensive > option.... > > I'm just getting into the game, and I think it'd be > a fun long-term > project to put together a handmade board /set. Not > to mention relaxing. > > a. > > BTW: If you're not backing up the data on your > computer on a regular > basis, you should be. Hard drive crashes are all too > regular, and all too > painfull. Speaking from experience... > > -- > afox at drizzle dot com || > http://www.drizzle.com/~afox > FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has > farted near your > computer. Press any key to reboot > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > ===== Stephen F. Stover PH (281) 829-1102 xossfs@yahoo.com Wanting to hunt rocks and play games every day! _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com From mosasaur47 at msn.com Wed Sep 22 06:34:48 2004 From: mosasaur47 at msn.com (Kenneth Quinn) Date: Wed Sep 22 06:36:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] "New" Mineral? References: <002201c4a043$b7d466e0$6698490c@HHEPC> <4150E4EA.201B@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: > Pictures and attachments are not allowed on the list to protect against > computer viri. If you want us to see a picture you either have to post > it on a website, or mail it privately off-list to those interested. Homer sent the photo privately to me - it is definitely not nummulitic limestone. To me it appears to be a brecciated igneous rock, infiltrated by silica, but that is just a guess. I have seen nummulitic limestone in place - my MS thesis in geology involved traveling to the Sinai! It is white and chalky, not lapidary material by any stretch, though it makes nice pyramids... Kenneth Quinn From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Sep 22 07:35:44 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Sep 22 07:35:05 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re Subject line---was:Rockhounds Digest, Vol3, Issue 27 (is this rose quartz?) In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20040921205448.02ec1a90@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: Hoi Kitty and list, I second your motion, Kitty. Or at least: make it shorter! RH Di. V3,I27 (is this rose quartz) would fit in the subject line. Only just but it would at least give us an idea that some relevant text is following... Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kitty & Bill Heacox Verzonden: woensdag 22 september 2004 9:17 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Re Subject line---was:Rockhounds Digest, Vol3, Issue 27 (is this rose quartz?) Folks, this has happened before...we have a subject line that is "Rockhounds Digest Vol (whatever number), Issue (whatever number), and then a topic that---to my knowledge--- has nothing to do with a volume or issue number of anything. Am I being stupid (again)? Is there something I'm missing here ( again)? Does this have to do with people who subscribe to the list in digest form (and I only recently found out what that is)? I like to keep track of what's happening on this list, and the subject line is how I can do that, especially if I've been away from the computer for a while. So if this a matter of people who view this list on digest form, would you please change the subject line to reflect what the topic really is? Mahalo! (Hawaiian for "Thank you") Kitty _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From liz.fodi at utoronto.ca Wed Sep 22 08:06:43 2004 From: liz.fodi at utoronto.ca (liz fodi) Date: Wed Sep 22 08:06:36 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] pyrite disease In-Reply-To: <4150E73E.6BD2@Tomaszewski.net> References: <200409160103.i8G13btW027963@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <00e201c4a023$477cb070$ebe2a5d8@Rock5> <4150E73E.6BD2@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <41519503.9080408@utoronto.ca> Thanks Kreigh I was about to rummage in files to find the postings from Sally Shelton way back when. Good to have an updated version. . I keep all my specimens in the basement were humidity is kept fairly constant using a dehumidifier. But, I have several specimens living at the cottage (from the same pockets as ones in the basement) of sulphide material from the LafargeDundas Quarry in Ontario. These are nortorious when it comes to "pyrite disease". Now the cottage is in bottom land, (read high humidity) and both temperature and humidity vary greatly over the year. Yet they are doing as well as their fellows in the basement. Now check the one and only specimen on display in the house itself. This is the only one that is starting to show signs of alteration. I think that acidity might be the critical factor. Humidity above a certain level speeds up the process. Recipe for good melanterite growth probably reads "add vinegar or lemon juice to bring out the bloom". :-} Liz Fodi Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >Pete, > >Check out http://www.korrnet.org/kgms/feb-01/feb01-8.htm where Sally >Shelton from the San Diego Natural History Museum gives an overview of >curing pyrite disease and tells you where to get specific details. >Humidity under 45% (minimum) is key as it is caused by humidity driven >oxidation. > >Kreigh > > > > >Pete Richards wrote: > > >>Hi Rock, >> >>Yeah, it's a tough one. The main culprit is oxygen. Acidity and moisture contribute. One could keep specimens in an oxygen-free environment by bathing them in a nearly sealed container with a low flow of nitrogen gas, or keep them in a 0% humidity atmosphere (50% apparently is a pretty good compromise for those who do not live in Arizona). All one can do is slow down the "disease", and most folks can't afford the high tech to slow it down by orders of magnitude. I have had the specimen I wr >> >>The irony (no pun intended) is that many of these specimens have existed for hundreds of thousands or millions of years within feet to tens of feet of the earth's surface, and are perfectly fine when collected, but fall apart within tens of years or less of being collected. This is because they have lived their long early lives in an environment free of oxygen! >> >>Maybe this problem gives new meaning to the term "fool's gold"! >> >>Cheers, >>Pete >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Ted at crystalgems.com Wed Sep 22 10:10:33 2004 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted) Date: Wed Sep 22 10:10:49 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mailing Expensive Stones In-Reply-To: <006801c4a02f$961fa5a0$f25a2741@MCWIDOM> Message-ID: <005a01c4a0c7$188f7f50$0300a8c0@gametime> I will weigh in on this discussion also, not to contradict Neil's excellent description, but to perhaps clarify some of the discussion. I am a current Postal worker and have spent over 25 years working in or around almost every Postal job category and structure. The Postal Service has two investigative arms: The Inspector General and the Inspection Service. For customer and service related complaints the Inspection Service is the department you want. The Postal Inspection Service is completely independent from USPS operations. The Chief Inspector reports to the Postmaster General and represents the only link between the two organizations. To contact the Inspection Service a person needs to look them up independently; usually, in the blue pages of their local phone book. One may also find the Inspection Service phone number on one of the posters placed in Postal lobbies. Do not expect the clerk to have any idea of how to contact the Inspection Service. The Inspection Service is not chummy with Postal employees and discourages friendly contact between the two organizations. Inspectors are evaluated on the criminals they bust or help arrest every year. To get an Inspectors attention try to state your complaint in non-personal terms that highlight the possible criminal actions involved. Trust me here; the Inspectors get an incredible amount of "somebody is tampering with my mail" complaints from the paranoid. If you have tampered mail, take photos before you open it and save any evidence (wrappings or re-tapings). When you contact the Inspection Service, identify yourself and your complaint and then get the Inspectors address and mail them the evidence. When presented clear evidence of tampering and the possibility of achieving another arrest I can pretty much guarantee the Inspector will get someone to establish surveillance activities to catch the criminal. Come across as a paranoid or just plain whiny and you will probably be ignored. Most Post Offices of any size have the Inspection galleries Neil described; They allow the Inspection Service to observe Postal employees unobserved. When you file a valid complaint, it will be passed to the local Inspection Service office for follow-up. They may establish surveillance. These do result in arrests and convictions. USPS really only has several major service offerings: Express Mail First Class Standard Mail Fourth Class While Priority Mail is treated as a separate service it really is First Class mail over a certain weight. Priority services can be realized by paying that rate for lighter pieces of mail. Priority does receive some special handling because it is primarily a business oriented mail service and time is money in business. Priority mail stands a much greater chance of flying instead of ground travel than First Class mail and Priority mail has several dedicated sorting operations to help move it faster. This allows USPS to market Priority mail as 2-3 day business service. All of the other services are add-ons to the above mail classes. Registered and certified are add-ons to First Class mail. One first pays the First Class mail rate and then adds on the additional service. Most people use the word registered mail, but they really mean certified mail. There are substantial differences. Certified mail is getting a signature for delivery of the mail piece. Certified mail is handled within the normal USPS sorting operations and is only handled specially at delivery. Certified return receipt means getting the signature with a delivery verification card mailed back to the sender. Registered mail is handled outside of normal sorting operations and stored in secure areas under lock and key. Registered mail is assigned a unique number and must be signed over to every person who handles it. This maintains a continuous record of every person responsible for the mail piece at any time. The fee added on to the First Class fee for Registered mail is dependent on the declared value of the mail piece. So, one could put up to $25,000 insurance on the item. The Hope Diamond was sent via Registered mail to the Smithsonian. A blind was set up with a courier and two guards who ostensibly ferried the Hope Diamond on a plane, meanwhile a servant quietly went to the Post Office and Registered mailed the actual diamond. To mail anything via registered mail; USPS requires complete sealing of the package with paper tape. You can seal the package first with other tape, but the top layer must be paper. If the clerk can push a pen tip into a corner, edge or fold of the package, the item can not be sent Registered. Why paper tape? Well, the clerk once verifying that the package is completely sealed and accepts payment will then stamp all the sealed surface and tape edges with a registry stamp. Any tampering of a seal will be obvious. Can Registered mail be lost or stolen? Well, yes it can, but at greatly reduced levels because of the tracking process. And there is proof positive of the failure point and possible criminal prosecutions. USPS may be paper bound on the insurance, but all the evidence is there once the claim is filed. Employees allowed into Registry mail sections are few and watched. So what are your options? Express mail: Provides a basic insurance level and obtains a signature at delivery; quite dependable. Priority mail: Insurance can be purchased along with signature upon delivery options. First Class mail: As Neil described, First Class mail is almost completely mechanized and undergoes a rather arduous processing. If the mail piece is over 1/4 inch thick it will be kicked out of the automated process into a combination mechanized/manual process that is only a little less arduous. First Class mail can be upgraded to Priority mail services by paying the Priority mail postage and declaring it as Priority mail. I do not recommend using the other services (standard mail and Fourth class which include Parcel Post) for small or valuable packages. Parcel Post aggregates packages into a transportation unit that is 6' X 6' X 4'. USPS discovered that neatly stacking packages into this unit prevents downstream mechanized handling, so now packages are "tossed" over the top for random stacking. Parcel post takes packages up to 70 pounds. When one of these transportation carts reaches a Parcel Post sortation center it is processed mechanically. A machine picks up the unit, lifts it over a conveyor basin, turns it upside down and shakes out all of the items in it which fall an average of 8 feet. A 70 pound box of books landing on your 1 ounce package may change your packages shape and stone holding capability forever. Parcel Post is value priced, but not gentle. I hope this helps and clarifies. You can get detailed information and rates from www.USPS.com Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of John McLaughlin Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 7:06 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Mailing Expensive Stones I am shipping a fair number of precious stones by first class mail to locations in the US. I have already determined that Priority Mail arrives at about the same time as first class, but I'm up in the air about insurance and registration. On the one hand insurance would be comforting. On the other insurance and registered delivery would seem to make a target of the packages. Plus, I am not aware of how difficult it would be to collect on the insurance should I suffer a loss. Over time, the savings in insurance would cover a moderate loss. Any wisdom regarding how to ship small valuable packages and the difficulty (or lack of difficulty) in getting the insurance payment for a lost parcel? I could also use UPS, but that service does not seem better than the post office and the packages I ship are usually padded envelopes or small boxes. Thanks, John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Wed Sep 22 10:44:52 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Wed Sep 22 10:40:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mailing Expensive Stones In-Reply-To: <005a01c4a0c7$188f7f50$0300a8c0@gametime> Message-ID: <200409221740.i8MHeCxe005302@bubbleator.drizzle.com> GREAT explanation! One thing I can add about Priority Mail. I don't know how it is elsewhere, but if you drop off a package at the airport post office here in the Twin Cities (MSP), it bypasses one whole sort and goes out quite a bit earlier. First class goes: Airport -> St. Paul Sort Facility -> Airport -> Out, while Priority goes Airport -> Out. GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Ted > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 12:11 PM > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Mailing Expensive Stones > > I will weigh in on this discussion also, not to contradict > Neil's excellent description, but to perhaps clarify some of > the discussion. > > I am a current Postal worker and have spent over 25 years > working in or around almost every Postal job category and structure. From Ted at crystalgems.com Wed Sep 22 11:37:58 2004 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted) Date: Wed Sep 22 11:38:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mailing Expensive Stones In-Reply-To: <4124EBD401734085@mta2.wss.scd.yahoo.com> (added by postmaster@mail.san.yahoo.com) Message-ID: <007201c4a0d3$4bed8f20$0300a8c0@gametime> Gary: You have hit it on the head. It does matter where you mail an item. USPS works on a hub and spoke arrangement. Each section of the hub and spoke invokes a certain amount of processing/turnover time. If you check the types of labels for Express mail you will find one for airport-airport service. It is possible to achieve same day service with many airport configurations and a decent mailing drop off time. Just by deciding to mail at the airport mail center and having a pick-up at the receiving airport mail center. Dropping a similar mail item at a local Post Office requires that that office transport the item to a local sorting center which then transfers the item to the airport mail center or placed into a truck for ground transportation. I have heard many people ask why their mail service across town is slower than across country. There could be many reasons, but a common one is that the delivery across town is really delivery across several sections of the hub and spoke. The local hub and spokes may involve sections with longer processing/handling times and strictly ground transportation through congested areas while the cross country approach involves quicker handling turnover and air transportation. USPS processes an incredible amount of mail daily and does so with efficiency and dispatch. To give some statistics; USPS handles roughly one half of all the mail in the world by volume and matches the yearly volume of all major competitors with a few days of USPS processing. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Gary Brown [mailto:gbrown@catspaw-minerals.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 1:45 PM To: Ted@crystalgems.com; 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Mailing Expensive Stones GREAT explanation! One thing I can add about Priority Mail. I don't know how it is elsewhere, but if you drop off a package at the airport post office here in the Twin Cities (MSP), it bypasses one whole sort and goes out quite a bit earlier. First class goes: Airport -> St. Paul Sort Facility -> Airport -> Out, while Priority goes Airport -> Out. GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Ted > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 12:11 PM > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Mailing Expensive Stones > > I will weigh in on this discussion also, not to contradict > Neil's excellent description, but to perhaps clarify some of > the discussion. > > I am a current Postal worker and have spent over 25 years > working in or around almost every Postal job category and structure. From jbryankramer at msn.com Wed Sep 22 13:20:07 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Sep 22 13:20:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mailing Expensive Stones In-Reply-To: <01ca01c4a04c$800d4b10$f25a2741@MCWIDOM> Message-ID: <002601c4a0e1$8e2fa770$6601a8c0@bryan> No doubt that was part of the problem. Walmart ships their DVD's in a dark blue instantly recognizable mailer and Netflix uses a bright red one. I have to say that what ever the inpector did, she pretty much put a stop to the problem. However the next DVD that I got after complaining was snapped in two. Both Walmart and NetFlix could use more secure mailers but they don't seem to be concerned about the problem. As for priority mail, it seems to be distinctly faster than UPS ground to me. I've noticed that UPS will cache shipments near the delivery site until the predicted delivery day arrives. For example a package might arrive a Jacksonville 2 or 3 days early but it won't get delivered early. Bryan -------Original Message----- --I wonder if that could be due to the package being --recognizable as a CD, making it a target. That has been my --concern with registration and insurance, though the insurance --stamp on the package does not state a value. I have shipped a --fair number of packages with no problems, but . . . -- --John McLaughlin --Glendale, Arizona -- ------- Original Message ----- --From: "J Bryan Kramer" --Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Mailing Expensive Stones -- -- --> Well it may be a felony but I don't think they take it too --seriously. --> I --have --> a subscription to one of the DVD rental services and began --to notice --> that the time from when I got an email notice that a DVD --was shipped --> to the --time --> I got it in the mailbox had taken a sudden turn for the worse. --> --> Furthermore examination of the tardy DVD mailers showed --that they had --> been tampered with. What seemed to be happening was that --somewhere in --> the local mail distribution system someone was pulling --these mailers --> out of the --mail, --> doing something with them for several days and then putting --them back --> in --the --> mail. A complaint to the local post office only got the mechanic's --> shrug. They even denied knowing that such a critter as a postal --> investigator existed. --> --> I tracked down the postal investigator and she apparently --scared them --enough --> that I only find an occasional tampered with mailer now. One of the --> people --I --> work with had the same problem. So don't trust the Post Office is my --advice. --> UPS and FEDEX at least have total package tracking to keep their --> employees honest. --> --> Bryan -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- From mineral.maertens at att.net Wed Sep 22 14:59:10 2004 From: mineral.maertens at att.net (mineral.maertens@att.net) Date: Wed Sep 22 14:59:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collecting in Manhattan Message-ID: <092220042159.11263.4151F5AE0000838800002BFF21602807419C020A9B9D0A0E03D2040E9D0A020703@att.net> Thank you for the reference Gary. I was amazed about John Betts article. I concur, John is a good man. Must have been twice very close to the location and I do not recall collecting being "legal" there. It is almost in the back yard of the Metropolitan Museum's extion The Cloisters and when you take the Circle Tour, you can see the site very well while wiaitng for the rail bridge to turn. Got to check it out later. Johan From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Sep 22 15:44:21 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Sep 22 15:38:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 3, Issue 27 (is this rose quartz?) References: <1c3.1eac8c1a.2e826b0e@aol.com> Message-ID: <4151FEE0.CEF@Tomaszewski.net> Grant, That is a fair question. I sent the specimen to Excalibur. They are a 'for profit' lab, but I trust Tony's work and think the lab's excellent reputation is well deserved. I have no problems recommending Excalibur for a mineral analysis. Kreigh P.S., I have no affiliation with Excalibur other than as a satisfied repeat customer. Lapadary@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 9/21/04 8:35:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: > I got the lab results back and can finally confirm this was not rose > quartz. > > But a potassium feldspar druze on quartz is almost as interesting and > unusual. XRD analysis would be needed to differentiate between > orthoclase or microcline, which are the possibilities the lab found. > > Analysis of the 'feldspar' in the body shows it is really a mixture of > albite, K-feldspars (plagioclase dominant), and quartz. > > The black mineral turned out to be epidote (or something really close). > > The unknown green mineral was malachite, overlaying quartz; it might be > an unlikely artifact, or the result of glacial interaction with copper > and weathering, given its location -- it was certainly not a normal > habit for this mineral. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Kreigh, > > Can I ask how you got it tested? For example, was it done by a 'for profit' > lab or a University? I have a specimen from a road cut in Bolado Park, which > sits right on top of the San Andreas fault. I think the piece is gypsum that > filled a pretty big crevice. However, I washed it in Oxalic acid, expecting a > fast reaction. After 10 minutes it not only failed to fizz, it stayed dirty. I'm > afraid to leave it in oxalic longer or to put it in muriatic acid. > > I have sent a specimen of another unknown (Miramar) to Don (morningstar) for > identification in the past. He did that one for free but I don't like taking > advantage of friendships. And I don't mind paying for some test on this other > piece but I'm not sure where to send it. One thing, I don't think it is > valuable, I'm just curious. > > Grant > From Ted at crystalgems.com Wed Sep 22 17:07:56 2004 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted) Date: Wed Sep 22 17:08:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Was Mailing Expensive Stones Now it's USPS FAQ In-Reply-To: <002601c4a0e1$8e2fa770$6601a8c0@bryan> Message-ID: <000c01c4a101$64ca8650$0300a8c0@gametime> Bryan: I can not be sure exactly what happened in your investigation, but I am sure the Inspector would never divulge your name or address. They don't trust anyone in USPS enough. The breakage could be coincidence. Complaints that you make to the local Supervisor or Postmaster will almost always identify your address and addressee. Mainly because the official procedure is to place a watch on your mail; the clerk and carrier must track when they received it and when they passed it on and the condition it is in. I doubt the local Post Office is holding any of the premium mail classes (Express, priority, First Class). They are tracked on how long mail is kept in their location before delivery and this metric is watched at all levels of Postal Management. Mail obviously waiting for delivery is probably standard mail also known as bulk business mail. Provincially, you might refer to this mail as junk mail. Standard mail (originally 3rd class mail) has a number of caveats: 1) Standard Mail is prohibited by law to be processed instead of the premium mail classes. Oh, Perhaps I didn't mention that USPS is governed by law. I believe it is called Title 39 and is the law that establishes the U.S. Postal Service, USPS function and restrictions and the so-called monopoly. 2) Standard mail is used by businesses to do "mailings" to Postal customers. This is a critical point. Consider yourself a business: You've spent months planning an ad campaign and lined up mailings, newspaper ads, television promotions, employee education and have a huge warehouse full of merchandise. To be sure that your third class mail has plenty of time to processed and reach destinations you drop it in the mail system early. The mail makes it through the Postal system and arrives at the Post Office a week early. Would you, as the business want the Post Office to deliver the advertisements before the ad officially starts? So that people will go to the stores before the merchandise has arrived and ask for the sale price? 3) Standard mail is also prohibited by Title 39 from being day specific delivery mail. USPS offers a "window" where they will deliver the standard mailing and they will try to coordinate that window with the mailers desired delivery date. This is why mail will appear to sit for days. If it is someplace visible to you, it is only because the Post Office does not have the interior space for storage. Priority has a number of faster processes in it like using air transportation if the delivery site is more than X miles from receipt or if it has missed the days ground (truck) transportation. I can not address your parcels question without specific details. The carrier might be allowed to "miss" the parcel one day; but they will not be allowed to keep delaying delivery without reprimand. If the parcel is actually Parcel Post, then that class of mail falls under the processing prohibition. All premium classes of mail must be processed before the secondary classes can be handled. Just a final note: Every Post Office is also a business and has a set number of employees and functions that must be performed every day. To handle mail reasonably, keep to a schedule and keep overtime down is their basic mission. If the premium levels of mail use up sorting time frames, then the lesser classes of mail wait. One of the older carriers had a saying way back when I started. "Delivering mail was like shoveling s__t against the tide." As far as the "lazy government worker" image, working within the system allows me knowledge of when Civil Service exams are scheduled. I tried for many years to get family members to apply to take those exams. That is; till one of them said that they have seen me come home after work, and they never intended to have to work that hard for a living. It sure inspired them to get a good degree and a professional job. Yes, I have seen with clerks and carriers with bad attitudes and a slow work habit. That only masks the hundreds of thousands employees that are busting their butts. To cap this off, there were many people along my route many years ago that thought I really had an easy job. I measured the distance of my route (several times) and I also counted the steps (up to porches and mail boxes). My route varied between 10-12 miles and 3000 steps. The variation is caused because back then not every house had mail every day. That is a rare condition these days. I hope this also helps! Ted -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 4:20 PM To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Mailing Expensive Stones No doubt that was part of the problem. Walmart ships their DVD's in a dark blue instantly recognizable mailer and Netflix uses a bright red one. I have to say that what ever the inpector did, she pretty much put a stop to the problem. However the next DVD that I got after complaining was snapped in two. Both Walmart and NetFlix could use more secure mailers but they don't seem to be concerned about the problem. As for priority mail, it seems to be distinctly faster than UPS ground to me. I've noticed that UPS will cache shipments near the delivery site until the predicted delivery day arrives. For example a package might arrive a Jacksonville 2 or 3 days early but it won't get delivered early. Bryan -------Original Message----- --I wonder if that could be due to the package being --recognizable as a CD, making it a target. That has been my --concern with registration and insurance, though the insurance --stamp on the package does not state a value. I have shipped a --fair number of packages with no problems, but . . . -- --John McLaughlin --Glendale, Arizona -- ------- Original Message ----- --From: "J Bryan Kramer" --Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Mailing Expensive Stones -- -- --> Well it may be a felony but I don't think they take it too --seriously. --> I --have --> a subscription to one of the DVD rental services and began --to notice --> that the time from when I got an email notice that a DVD --was shipped --> to the --time --> I got it in the mailbox had taken a sudden turn for the worse. --> --> Furthermore examination of the tardy DVD mailers showed --that they had --> been tampered with. What seemed to be happening was that --somewhere in --> the local mail distribution system someone was pulling --these mailers --> out of the --mail, --> doing something with them for several days and then putting --them back --> in --the --> mail. A complaint to the local post office only got the mechanic's --> shrug. They even denied knowing that such a critter as a postal --> investigator existed. --> --> I tracked down the postal investigator and she apparently --scared them --enough --> that I only find an occasional tampered with mailer now. One of the --> people --I --> work with had the same problem. So don't trust the Post Office is my --advice. --> UPS and FEDEX at least have total package tracking to keep their --> employees honest. --> --> Bryan -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Lapadary at aol.com Wed Sep 22 17:48:34 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Wed Sep 22 17:48:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] (is this rose quartz?) Excalibur Message-ID: <1ee.2b65e1a6.2e837762@aol.com> The Excalibur that Kreigh mention has a very interesting site. http://www.excaliburmineral.com/ Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jbryankramer at msn.com Wed Sep 22 18:29:03 2004 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Sep 22 18:29:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Was Mailing Expensive Stones Now it's USPS FAQ In-Reply-To: <000c01c4a101$64ca8650$0300a8c0@gametime> Message-ID: <002901c4a10c$b65faee0$6601a8c0@bryan> No I never suspected that the inspector had anything to do with the DVD breakage, but I went down to the local PO and complained there before I tracked down the postal inspector, and told them I was going to contact the inspector. And really it could just have been a coincidence that I got a broken DVD right after that but they are hard to break. I am on a rural route and thus the carrier is not being closely observed, I live in a small town too so they would know who I am and who the carrier was. I don't want to make too much of this since I generally don't have any problems with the USPS. Bryan -------Original Message----- -- --Bryan: --I can not be sure exactly what happened in your --investigation, but I am sure the Inspector would never --divulge your name or address. They don't trust anyone in USPS --enough. The breakage could be coincidence. Complaints that --you make to the local Supervisor or Postmaster will almost --always identify your address and addressee. Mainly because --the official procedure is to place a watch on your mail; the --clerk and carrier must track when they received it and when --they passed it on and the condition it is in. From carrillo at redshift.com Wed Sep 22 18:43:09 2004 From: carrillo at redshift.com (Frank Carrillo) Date: Wed Sep 22 18:43:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Monterey CA Gem Show Sept 25 - 26 Message-ID: <41522A2D.20105@redshift.com> Carmel Valley Gem & Mineral Society 45th Annual Gem Show Monterey California Fairgrounds Saturday September 25, 2004 10 AM to 6 PM Sunday September 26, 2004 10 AM to 5 PM Gems, Jewelry, Minerals, Fossils, Rocks, Equipment Exhibits and Dealers Demonstrations Door Prizes Silent Auction Snackbar Kid Stuff Admission $3.50 $1.00 off with flyer (flyers available at Monterey, Carmel, Seaside, and Pacific Grove libraries) (or download flyer image from http://www.cvgms.org/show.shtml) Children with Adult are FREE FREE Parking From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Sep 22 19:21:41 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Sep 22 19:15:22 2004 Subject: [ot] Re: [Rockhounds] Re Subject line---was:Rockhounds Digest, Vol3, Issue 27 (is this rose quartz?) References: Message-ID: <415231B1.6D67@Tomaszewski.net> Some subscribers to the list prefer the Digest version, and many (if not most) of them forget to change the subject when replying. Unfortunately, it is a common internet irritant on every list I am aware of that offers a digest; can you spell 'convenience', 'human nature', and 'the internet'? I started the rose quartz thread. I don't remember who responded first, but they were a digest subscriber, and the thread was followed by a fair number of posts with the digest subject. When I had accurate information I chose to retain the thread subject since most of the posts used it, but did add the 'is it rose quartz' to it to make it clear since time had passed. I probably should have put it at the beginning instead of the end to make it more prominent. Many mail clients allow sorting by Subject/Thread. But if the subject is shortened/abbreviated, it breaks this capability; only a few work if the subject is prepended instead of appended with additional info. I agree it would be better if digest subscribers fixed the subject so the original was retained when responding. But once a thread has been established I also think it is useful to retain the common thread subject, even when it references a digest instead of the original post, so people can put it all together (especially when it stretches out in time). The email discussion list format is a spin-off of the original NNTP (aka, network news) discussion format. Some NNTP forums offer an email alternative these days. The discussion format has moved to email in general. NNTP retains the subject by default; the problem under discussion only arose when email lists were 'improved' by the addition of a digest format. The issue really does have a history and has been discussed at great length on many forums. Perhaps the only real solution is to force digest members to be lurkers (by making digests non-replyable -- at least without creating a new message), eliminate digests entirely, or return (the list) to to NNTP format that was designed for discussions by topic. Kreigh Axel Emmermann wrote: > > Hoi Kitty and list, > > I second your motion, Kitty. > Or at least: make it shorter! > RH Di. V3,I27 (is this rose quartz) would fit in the subject line. > Only just but it would at least give us an idea that some relevant text is > following... > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kitty & Bill Heacox > Verzonden: woensdag 22 september 2004 9:17 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Re Subject line---was:Rockhounds Digest, > Vol3, Issue 27 (is this rose quartz?) > > Folks, this has happened before...we have a subject line that is > "Rockhounds Digest Vol (whatever number), Issue (whatever number), and then > a topic that---to my knowledge--- has nothing to do with a volume or issue > number of anything. Am I being stupid (again)? Is there something I'm > missing here ( again)? Does this have to do with people who subscribe to > the list in digest form (and I only recently found out what that is)? > > I like to keep track of what's happening on this list, and the subject line > is how I can do that, especially if I've been away from the computer for a > while. So if this a matter of people who view this list on digest form, > would you please change the subject line to reflect what the topic really > is? > > Mahalo! (Hawaiian for "Thank you") > > Kitty > From jr50wv at yahoo.com Wed Sep 22 19:25:36 2004 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Wed Sep 22 19:25:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Postal Service vrs. UPS etc. In-Reply-To: <200409230102.i8N12hpC009074@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20040923022536.99025.qmail@web41010.mail.yahoo.com> Hi everyone: I felt compelled to speak up about the delivery safety question being debated right now. I always prefer Priority Mail delivery, because my RFD driver knows where I live, and can deliver my mailed packages right on schedule. I live in a very rural location...my county doesn't even have a single stoplight, just stop signs. UPS sends packages from one big city to the west to the state capital to the east and back; I have trouble getting them to leave it at the main office so I can drop by after work and pick it up myself. FedEx leaves frantic messages on my answering machine asking for directions. The Post Office just delivers. I even received a priority mail package on Sunday afternoon, in the middle of a 3-day weekend... When Mona___ stole a box of checks from our road-side mailbox, the postal inspector was more helpful than the sheriff OR the state police. She had a problem with the privacy of others' mail, and the USPS helped straighten her out...she'll be on probation 'til the cows come home. I always ask for delivery via priority mail if it is at all possible. I would be reluctant to deal with anyone not willing to use that service. The Postman always delivers, you can have the brown, I'll take the guys in grey. JR in WV _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. http://messenger.yahoo.com From jemstone at amug.org Wed Sep 22 21:00:21 2004 From: jemstone at amug.org (John McLaughlin) Date: Wed Sep 22 21:00:25 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mailing Expensive Stones References: <007201c4a0d3$4bed8f20$0300a8c0@gametime> Message-ID: <006201c4a121$d95c8b10$f25a2741@MCWIDOM> Ted, Your answers were very helpful. Many thanks. I will carry the vision of a 70 pound parcel post box dropping several feet onto a box containing a small, fragile mineral specimen. You are a great ambassador for the USPS. John McLaughlin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted" Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Mailing Expensive Stones > Gary: > You have hit it on the head. It does matter where you mail an item. USPS > works on a hub and spoke arrangement. Each section of the hub and spoke > invokes a certain amount of processing/turnover time. > > If you check the types of labels for Express mail you will find one for > airport-airport service. It is possible to achieve same day service with > many airport configurations and a decent mailing drop off time. Just by > deciding to mail at the airport mail center and having a pick-up at the > receiving airport mail center. Dropping a similar mail item at a local Post > Office requires that that office transport the item to a local sorting > center which then transfers the item to the airport mail center or placed > into a truck for ground transportation. > > I have heard many people ask why their mail service across town is slower > than across country. There could be many reasons, but a common one is that > the delivery across town is really delivery across several sections of the > hub and spoke. The local hub and spokes may involve sections with longer > processing/handling times and strictly ground transportation through > congested areas while the cross country approach involves quicker handling > turnover and air transportation. USPS processes an incredible amount of mail > daily and does so with efficiency and dispatch. To give some statistics; > USPS handles roughly one half of all the mail in the world by volume and > matches the yearly volume of all major competitors with a few days of USPS > processing. > > Ted From afox at drizzle.com Thu Sep 23 09:52:11 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Thu Sep 23 09:52:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collecting Go Stones? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: (FWDed to Rockhounds list, on the hunch that not everybody knows about go) It's a relatively old Japanese / Chinese game similar to chess. It is played on a gridded board, traditionally teak or other ornate woods, of dimensions 19 squares x 19 squares. I *believe* the traditional spacing is about 1/2" squares, but I could be wrong. For more info: http://www.kiseido.com/go_equipment.htm The players use black and white stones placed at the intersections of squares to delineate 'territory'. He who controls the most territory, wins. However, unlike chess, the game is not about capturing opposing pieces; it's a game of implied threats and concessions. http://www.usgo.org/resources/whatisgo.asp http://playgo.to/interactive/ My roommate and I are learning together; we recently scrapped a 19x19 board to downgrade to 9x9, so that we could get a better feel for what the heck we were doing... a. > Would you mind briefly explaining a "Go Board". > Perhaps I know this game under a different name? > > >>> afox@drizzle.com 09/21/04 03:51PM >>> > I apologize, as I think I might have posted this topic a few years > back. > But I don't see it in the archives, and lost the replies I think I got > > sent at the time in a hard drive crash (sigh) > > Has anyone done the following: > > 1) Collected stones for a handmade Go board? > 2) Found a way to sucessfully tumble / process stones to a go-friendly > > shape? > > I suspect that the best option might be beach agates, since they are > already naturally tumbled to an oblate elipsoid, but the size variation > is > pretty great. I thought about trying to tumble something with a > distinct > schistosity or dominant clevage plane (feldspars), but I'm not sure > this > would actually work. > > I imagine getting cut cabs would work, but that seems an expensive > option.... > > I'm just getting into the game, and I think it'd be a fun long-term > project to put together a handmade board /set. Not to mention > relaxing. > > a. > > BTW: If you're not backing up the data on your computer on a regular > basis, you should be. Hard drive crashes are all too regular, and all > too > painfull. Speaking from experience... > > -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From kahako at aloha.net Thu Sep 23 11:05:59 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Sep 23 10:38:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collecting Go Stones? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040923073913.02ea8b00@mail.aloha.net> When we got a Go set when we were living in Japan in the late 1960's we were told that the pyramid-shaped point on the center underside of the board was so that one could bash one's opponent over the head to kill him if he cheated. Given the weight of the board (along with the sharp point), I expect there wasn't a lot of cheating! All of the boards we saw were very light colored, not dark reddish like teak, and we were told that this "blond" wood was from special trees that grow in a particular area of Japan. Our set includes two black lacquered bowls to hold the stones. The black stones look and feel like...well, black stones. The white ones are lighter in weight, with some slight patterns that look like they might be some kind of shell or coral (definitely not plastic). Until now I've never thought about checking them out more carefully to tell what they are made of. Aloha, Kitty At 06:52 AM 9/23/2004, you wrote: >(FWDed to Rockhounds list, on the hunch that not everybody knows about go) > >It's a relatively old Japanese / Chinese game similar to chess. It is >played on a gridded board, traditionally teak or other ornate woods, of >dimensions 19 squares x 19 squares. I *believe* the traditional spacing is >about 1/2" squares, but I could be wrong. > >For more info: >http://www.kiseido.com/go_equipment.htm From bombastus at worldnet.att.net Thu Sep 23 10:56:58 2004 From: bombastus at worldnet.att.net (Homer Eshbaugh) Date: Thu Sep 23 10:56:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] "New" Mineral? Message-ID: <007101c4a196$b8f99ff0$1296490c@HHEPC> Hello everybody - Wow! I guess I'm about the last person in North America to hear of Nummulites! At Kreig's suggestion, I used my favorite search engine to query the web. I got back a zillion hits, starting with a lengthy, highly illustrated paper surveying the various nummulites found in Java. Admittedly, this was a tad esoteric for me, but many of the other hits gave me much more general summaries of nummulites, and of Foraminifera in general. Fascinating stuff! I'd also like to thank Alan and Kenneth for taking the time to help. Kenneth is right, this is certainly not any kind of limestone! Now that I know they exist, I'll have to find a nummulite specimen to add to my collection! Homer --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Sep 23 14:27:26 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Sep 23 14:27:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collecting Go Stones? Message-ID: <092320042127.400.41533FBD000E68A100000190216037596407059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Now this is interesting, what I'd read about a traditional GO board, is not that it has a point on the back, but rather, a hollowed-out center on the underside, perhaps to make the board lighter in weight, but also said to be there as a receptacle to catch the blood from your oponent, if it comes that level of disagreement. (I do have a Go board myself, but it's hinged, folds in half to fit in the box. It has neither a spike nor the hollow underside, so I guess it's for polite opponents. My white stones look like plastic, the black ones (I think) have more of a matte finish, but I supposed are plastic also. Yes, I too always thought about making or getting natural stones for it, but never did!) Unfortunately, I haven't played in years! It's a neat game--takes a while for a game, though (but I suppose, no longer than chess or scrabble). Pete -------------- Original message from Kitty & Bill Heacox : -------------- > When we got a Go set when we were living in Japan in the late 1960's we > were told that the pyramid-shaped point on the center underside of the > board was so that one could bash one's opponent over the head to kill him > if he cheated. Given the weight of the board (along with the sharp point), > I expect there wasn't a lot of cheating! > > All of the boards we saw were very light colored, not dark reddish like > teak, and we were told that this "blond" wood was from special trees that > grow in a particular area of Japan. > > Our set includes two black lacquered bowls to hold the stones. The black > stones look and feel like...well, black stones. The white ones are lighter > in weight, with some slight patterns that look like they might be some kind > of shell or coral (definitely not plastic). Until now I've never thought > about checking them out more carefully to tell what they are made of. > > Aloha, Kitty > > > > At 06:52 AM 9/23/2004, you wrote: > >(FWDed to Rockhounds list, on the hunch that not everybody knows about go) > > > >It's a relatively old Japanese / Chinese game similar to chess. It is > >played on a gridded board, traditionally teak or other ornate woods, of > >dimensions 19 squares x 19 squares. I *believe* the traditional spacing is > >about 1/2" squares, but I could be wrong. > > > >For more info: > >http://www.kiseido.com/go_equipment.htm > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Thu Sep 23 17:31:49 2004 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Thu Sep 23 17:31:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Color fading in minerals Message-ID: <20040924003150.7225.qmail@web51008.mail.yahoo.com> I've added all the information gleaned from this thread to the table "Conditions Harmful to Minerals" on my website www.sauktown.com This is a sepatate classification, to distinguish color changes from physical deterioration. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From rpr at nike.heidelberg.edu Fri Sep 24 06:54:39 2004 From: rpr at nike.heidelberg.edu (Pete Richards) Date: Fri Sep 24 06:54:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] pyrite disease In-Reply-To: <006201c49c48$6de1a7e0$6601a8c0@bryan> References: <006201c49c48$6de1a7e0$6601a8c0@bryan> Message-ID: Some of you who have followed this thread and are chemically astute may want to look at this article that I stumbled upon today at work. It is written in the context of trying to reduce effects of acid mine drainage, but it might have a hint for us as well. The silicate part is largely irrelevant to our issues. D.M. Kargbo, G. Atallah, and S. Chatterjee (2004) Inhibitation of pyrite oxidation by a phospholipid in the presence of silicate. Environmental Science and Technology 38: 3483-3441. Regards, Pete -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh From rpr at nike.heidelberg.edu Fri Sep 24 06:59:19 2004 From: rpr at nike.heidelberg.edu (Pete Richards) Date: Fri Sep 24 06:59:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral collecting in Pennsylvania In-Reply-To: <00d901c49c59$71204860$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> References: <006201c49c48$6de1a7e0$6601a8c0@bryan> <00d901c49c59$71204860$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: I am trying to determine a citation for a 2-page xerox I have that describes the wurtzite localities in the Greensburg, PA area. I've had the xerox for probably 20+ years. I think it is from Mineral Collecting in Pennsylvania, but am not sure which edition. I am obtaining copies of the four editions that bear that name from Interlibrary Loan. But I'd like to ask those who know the collecting literature for Pennsylvania if there are more recent successors to this book that have a different name, or if there are other guidebooks with a different name that I may have missed. Thanks, Pete -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh From tjokela at execulink.com Fri Sep 24 07:02:42 2004 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Fri Sep 24 07:02:26 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? References: Message-ID: <008101c4a23f$28a926b0$6401a8c0@Junior> In a brief moment of weakness at the last club exec meeting I volunteered to give a talk on how to ID minerals. It's aimed at the newbies, and I plan to emphasize things like locality, matrix, associations, literature, and EDS/SEM, - stuff I actually use all the time, not stuff like streak and acid testing that all the pocketbooks suggest but nobody really ever uses. If any of the hardcore collectors out there have some tips or tricks to share, it would be most appreciated. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com From rpr at nike.heidelberg.edu Fri Sep 24 07:12:07 2004 From: rpr at nike.heidelberg.edu (Pete Richards) Date: Fri Sep 24 07:12:10 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? In-Reply-To: <008101c4a23f$28a926b0$6401a8c0@Junior> References: <008101c4a23f$28a926b0$6401a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: It's not for everyone, but I would urge you to urge them to learn basic crystallography. I can't tell you how often I have been offered an identification for a mineral from Mont Saint-Hilaire, and replied with confidence that it could not be because the symmetry was wrong. Once you understand it, it is a very powerful tool. Poor man's x-ray machine.... Pete >In a brief moment of weakness at the last club exec meeting I volunteered to >give a talk on how to ID minerals. > >It's aimed at the newbies, and I plan to emphasize things like locality, >matrix, associations, literature, and EDS/SEM, - stuff I actually use all >the time, not stuff like streak and acid testing that all the pocketbooks >suggest but nobody really ever uses. > >If any of the hardcore collectors out there have some tips or tricks to >share, it would be most appreciated. > >Cheers, > >Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com >Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com >The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com >Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh From william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu Fri Sep 24 07:44:57 2004 From: william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu (William Cordua) Date: Fri Sep 24 07:45:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? In-Reply-To: <008101c4a23f$28a926b0$6401a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: Hi, Actually I do use streak, hardness, luster, cleavage and other simple physical properties. I'm periodically called upon to set up at a mall or rock show to do I.D. for the public. My tools, which I can carry in a plastic baggie, include a streak plate, a steel nail (good for hardness and prying off small chips), a good magnet, a glass plate, a copper penny (pre 1983), a piece of quartz (another point on Mohs' scale), a set of hardness points, a bottle of dilute HCl and my trusty hand lens. Admittedly I get a lot of rocks as well as minerals from the general public, as well as a fair share of fossil. I find that the basic test allow me to I.D. with confidence almost all the minerals that come by . They are also cheap test, easy to learn and often underused. My experience helps too - to paraphrase a famous geology quote - the best mineralogist is the one who has seen the most minerals. If I get stumped, I will take a few small chips back to the lab and do a few optical tests using my polarized light microscope. I've also been know to blow-pipe a few samples. Rare minerals, of course, stump easily and often require EDS/SEM to I. D. Even so, I reiterate what Pete Richards has written - recognizing crystal symmetry and forms is often a big help - and can be done with a hand lens. Another big help to me is using locality information. I know you mentioned this, Tim, but I want to emphasize it further. I will always quiz some one as to where a sample came from so that I can use the geological setting to pin down the I.D. This is particularly easy if I recognize distinctive materials from a locality with which I am familiar - such as Franklin, New Jersey willemite and franklinite. I do remember asking a gentleman if he knows where he got that specimen and he replied "Of course I do! It was on a shelf in my basement." It really is important to keep track of locality if you want your specimens to be meaningful! Then sometimes folks lie to me or won't talk, thinking I'm going to steal their diamond locality (it's really quartz) or jump their gold claims (it's really pyrite). Stands in the way of my giving you good i.d.'s folks. Good luck on your talk, Tim. Dr. Bill on 9/24/04 9:02 AM, Tim Jokela Jr. at tjokela@execulink.com wrote: > In a brief moment of weakness at the last club exec meeting I volunteered to > give a talk on how to ID minerals. > > It's aimed at the newbies, and I plan to emphasize things like locality, > matrix, associations, literature, and EDS/SEM, - stuff I actually use all > the time, not stuff like streak and acid testing that all the pocketbooks > suggest but nobody really ever uses. > > If any of the hardcore collectors out there have some tips or tricks to > share, it would be most appreciated. > > Cheers, > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From BETDAV97 at aol.com Fri Sep 24 08:11:08 2004 From: BETDAV97 at aol.com (BETDAV97@aol.com) Date: Fri Sep 24 08:11:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral collecting in Pennsylvania Message-ID: <46.5992960b.2e85930c@aol.com> Hi Pete, For the mineral wurtzite and those areas, the info is current, as far as I know. Just watch out for the RR police, things have changed since 9/11, and they are a lot more suspicious. There are other localities for wurtzite that aren't listed. Such as working coal mines, the strip variety. There is a large dump near the Ohio border, that you can roam for hours. Bring a loop and take home all promising nodules, some have to be put in HCl, as the wurtzites are embedded in calcite. Have fun, Dave Phillips Sunset Fossils & Minerals Morgantown, WV --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockcurrier at cs.com Wed Sep 22 03:15:29 2004 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Fri Sep 24 08:43:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 4, Issue 15 References: <200409160011.i8G0BvtW016874@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <014201c4a08d$16792ed0$ebe2a5d8@Rock5> Concerning Utah Ice and other gypsum deposits. I read with interest the remarks and the news paper accounts about our good public servants trying to protect the public from the evil mineral collectors that were intent on destroying our natural gypsum heritage in the Capitol Reefs National Monument. It would stand to reason that they should also be interested in protecting the deposited from other kinds of destruction as well. Mainly I am thinking about rain storms that would certainly dissolve more gypsum than an army of mineral collectors could make off with. I wonder what they have done to protect the gypsum deposits from that form of destruction. You see the same sort of foolishness when it comes to various kinds of fossils. Much better to let natural weathering destroy fossils that let someone dig them up and sell them! Canada now requires that if you find a mineral specimen worth more than $2000 you need a special permit to export it out of Canada. So if you are a mining company and you come across mineral specimens worth more than $2000 you should immediately grind it to powder rather than try and preserve it. If you grind it up, you can export and sell it without any problem what so ever. I wonder if that law applies to all diamonds worth more than $2000 each. Iceland and Namibia have similar laws that require that to export mineral specimens you must obtain a permit. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 5:11 PM Subject: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 4, Issue 15 Send Rockhounds mailing list submissions to rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com You can reach the person managing the list at rockhounds-owner@lists.drizzle.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Rockhounds digest..." [Rockhounds-Digest] Today's Topics: 1. Re: Mines and Crystals (Kreigh Tomaszewski) 2. Re: 3 Famous Volcanos erupt within hours of each other (Carolyn Reynard) 3. Re: 3 Famous Volcanos erupt within hours of each other (Kreigh Tomaszewski) 4. Utah Ice (MCGINNISG@aol.com) 5. Re: Utah Ice (Lapadary@aol.com) 6. Re: 3 Famous Volcanos erupt within hours of each other (Carolyn Reynard) 7. Re: Mines and Crystals (Mike Flannigan) 8. Waller solution and pyrite disease (Pete Richards) 9. Re: Mines and Crystals (Lawrence Rush) 10. RE: Utah Ice (Margaret Malm) 11. Parti Sapphire (BETDAV97@aol.com) 12. RE: Waller solution and pyrite disease (Henry Barwood) 13. Inland SwapTop 6 1/2" Trim Saw (Dri) 14. Re: Parti Sapphire (Michael Schmidt) 15. Re: Wolf Creek Pass Geodes (kjvgorock@juno.com) 16. Re: Utah Ice (BETDAV97@aol.com) 17. RE: Waller solution and pyrite disease (morningstar@att.net) 18. Re: Utah Ice (Gslrocks@aol.com) 19. Re: Utah Ice (Michael Schmidt) 20. Re: Utah Ice (Lapadary@aol.com) 21. Re: Mines and Crystals (Lawrence Rush) 22. Re: Mines and Crystals (Richard Trapp) 23. Re Utah Ice-- word lovers (Kitty & Bill Heacox) 24. Re: Waller solution and pyrite disease (J B Murowchick) 25. RE: Waller solution and pyrite disease (Axel Emmermann) 26. Re: Inland SwapTop 6 1/2" Trim Saw (Andy Parker) 27. Re: Parti Sapphire (Kreigh Tomaszewski) 28. Re: Utah Ice (Kreigh Tomaszewski) 29. RE: Waller solution and pyrite disease (Pete Richards) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 21:47:41 -0400 From: Kreigh Tomaszewski Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mines and Crystals To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <41479DE3.5B8@Tomaszewski.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii As the years have gone by it has become increasingly difficult to get access to mines. Some mines actually mine specimens and sell them to dealers because they have discovered it is profitable. Some mines sell their raw or better 'mine run' to dealers who extract the specimens and sell them. Some mines allow clubs to arrange field trips for collecting, but this is more often on the mine dumps instead of in the actual mine. Some mines allow individual collectors to access their dumps. Taking a mine safety course is often a requirement, and clubs occasionally offer these classes. You usually have a better chance getting access via a club than as an individual. A few mines allow collectors 'fee' access so they can mine their own specimens, but this is more often access to mine run dumps than in the mine itself. Most mines prohibit the miners from collecting as it is considered to be stealing (the mine owner is not compensated) and takes away from their productivity (that the mine owner is paying for). A few mines allow the miners to set aside better specimens that the mine then sells, with part of the cash going back to the miner. And with some mines, the only specimens that ever surface have been smuggled out by miners. You can always contact a mine and inquire about access. The worst that will happen is they say no. And if enough collectors ask enough times they might figure out a way to make money from it and work something out. It never hurts to ask. Kreigh JOHN GERSTNER wrote: > > I live just outside of St. louis Mo and have been to a few rock shows in the area. I've seen crystals that came from various mines from this area, Sweetwater mine being one of them. I was wondering how people obtain these crystals from these mines? Is it a matter of knowing some miners working there who are kind enough to obtain them for you during their work day? > Thanks in advance! > > Cedarhill_rockhound > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 22:11:29 -0400 From: "Carolyn Reynard" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 3 Famous Volcanos erupt within hours of each other To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <004601c49ac9$51ece480$2b7ba118@feldsparflash> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Thanks Kreigh for all the news sources on recent volcanic eruptions I am forwarding them on to a student teacher friend teaching sixth grade earth science. sunstone ---- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 7:21 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 3 Famous Volcanos erupt within hours of each other > You are correct, I can't spell (or type). And there was a third volcano > that erupted in Japan > > > http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=582916§ion=news > > > > > Carolyn Reynard wrote: > > > > I the spelling is Mayon for the volcano in the Phillipines. > > sunstone3 > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 10:00 PM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 2 Famous Volcanos erupt within hours of each other > > > > > Make that three...the Mayan volcano in the Philippines also erupted > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,10756871%255e1702,00.html > > > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > E. L. Jones wrote: > > > > > > > > For those that like their rocks really fresh-- I mean REALLLLLLY fresh > > > > , and the end of the world cults, both Mauna Loa in Hawaii and Mt Etna > > > > in Sicily erupted within the last 24 hours. On the Big Island of > > > > Hawaii, Kilauea has been erupting continuously since 1983. Mauna Loa is > > > > the taller quieter one whos last eruption was in 1982 I believe, Etna > > > > has intermittent belches but have lava flows in the last couple years > > > > > > > > Flowing Lava is interesting to experiment with. It can also melt the > > > > shoes on your feet and the M&Ms in your backpack, not in your hands... > > > > Been there, done that, melted the t-shirt. > > > > > > > > Elton > > > > > > > > Aditional Stories at; > > > > Mauna Loa http://starbulletin.com/2004/09/13/news/story1.html > > > > > > > > Etna > > > > > > > > Mauna Loa rumbles awake > > > > > > > > A flurry of earthquakes persuades > > > > scientists the volcano could soon > > > > begin spewing lava > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > By Mary Vorsino > > > > mvorsino@starbulletin.com > > > > > > > /> > > > > > > > > "Unprecedented" activity deep under Mauna Loa this summer could be > > > > another sign that the world's largest volcano is headed toward an > > > > eruption, a scientist says. > > > > > > > > Fast Facts: > > > > Mauna Loa > > > > > > > > ? World's largest volcano and among the most active. > > > > > > > > ? Rises gradually to 13,677 feet, more than 2 miles above sea level. > > > > > > > > ? Has erupted 33 times since 1843. > > > > > > > > ? Longest period between modern-day eruptions was 25 years, between 1950 > > > > and 1975. > > > > > > > > ? Last eruption was in 1984, when lava flowed for 22 days and came to > > > > within 5.3 miles of an upland part of Hilo. > > > > > > > > SOURCE: U.S. GEOLOGICAL SURVEY > > > > > > > > More than 350 earthquakes have been recorded since July. > > > > > > > > Such frequent, small earthquakes have never before been measured beneath > > > > Mauna Loa's summit caldera. Data on Mauna Loa's seismic activity started > > > > to be collected in the 1930s, and Hawaiian Volcano Observatory > > > > scientist-in-charge Donald Swanson said even the instruments of that era > > > > would have detected the quakes. > > > > > > > > "They're unprecedented," he said, "since we started studying Mauna Loa." > > > > > > > > Despite the quakes, Swanson emphasized that an eruption should not be > > > > expected within the next few weeks or even months. > > > > > > > > There is no good estimate on when the volcano could erupt. But before an > > > > eruption, scientists would probably see the volcano's swelling increase > > > > and detect stronger earthquakes nearer to the surface, he said. > > > > > > > > "What we're seeing now is just a prelude to an eruption," Swanson said. > > > > "It's a clear indication that the volcano is restless, but we've known > > > > that for more than two years because it started to inflate." > > > > > > > > In May 2002, after nearly 10 years of slight deflation, Mauna Loa's > > > > summit started to swell. Similar expansions had preceded Mauna Loa's > > > > past two eruptions, in 1984 and 1975. > > > > > > > > Swanson said the recent quakes have not increased in frequency since > > > > July, but rather fluctuated in number from "day to day and week to > > > > week," Swanson said. > > > > > > > > Last week, there were about 12 earthquakes recorded, he said. > > > > > > > > The quakes occur about 25 miles beneath the volcano's summit caldera and > > > > the adjacent part of the southwest rift. Their size and depth have > > > > stayed about the same, Swanson said. > > > > > > > > Mauna Loa, which reaches 13,677 feet high, last erupted 20 years ago. > > > > Lava from the eruption covered 16 miles in 22 days, stopping just 5.3 > > > > miles short of an upland part of Hilo. > > > > > > > > In modern history the longest period between eruptions has been 25 years > > > > (from 1950 to 1975). > > > > > > > > "Twenty-five years is the record," Swanson said. "We're within the > > > > length of time that ... we should be anticipating another." > > > > > > > > Despite the unusual earthquakes, Swanson said it is still too early to > > > > step up the observatory's monitoring activities. > > > > > > > > "We haven't seen any reason to do that. All of us are aware of what's > > > > happening. We sort of have a heightened awareness," he said, adding that > > > > the number of earthquakes recorded is "quite a large number, but it's > > > > not alarming." > > > > > > > > Swanson also said it would be premature to start planning an eruption's > > > > path because that is still unclear, too. > > > > > > > > "It's still quite subdued," he said, compared with what activity atop > > > > the volcano will be like when "we'll be thinking more carefully about > > > > what and where the eruption will be." > > > > > > > > Mauna Loa is among the planet's most active volcanoes, according to the > > > > Hawaiian Volcano Observatory. Since 1843 the volcano has erupted 33 > > times. > > > > > > > > One of Mauna Loa's neighbors on the Big Island, Kilauea, is also within > > > > Hawaii Volcanoes National Park and has been erupting continuously since > > > > Jan. 3, 1983. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > To read daily updates on Mauna Loa's activity, go to the Hawaiian > > > > Volcano Observatory's Web site at *hvo.wr.usgs.gov* > > > > . > > > > > > > > ? 2004 Honolulu Star-Bulletin -- http://starbulletin.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Lava Spews From Mount Etna on the Southern Italian Island of Sicily* > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > ITALY: September 13, 2004 > > > > > > > > *Lava and smoke rises from Mount Etna on the southern Italian island of > > > > Sicily on September 11, 2004.* > > > > > > > > A new fissure yawned open on the south eastern side of Sicily's Mount > > > > Etna volcano on Tuesday, oozing out enough lava to cross a city block, > > > > researchers said. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 23:11:03 -0400 From: Kreigh Tomaszewski Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 3 Famous Volcanos erupt within hours of each other To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <4147B162.6AB@Tomaszewski.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Carolyn, Two other volcano resources you don't want to miss are Volcano World http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vw.html USGS http://volcanoes.usgs.gov And thanks for letting me know the links are going to the best possible use, educating kids about our world. Kreigh Carolyn Reynard wrote: > > Thanks Kreigh for all the news sources on recent volcanic eruptions I am > forwarding them on to a student teacher friend teaching sixth grade earth > science. sunstone ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 00:15:48 EDT From: MCGINNISG@aol.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Utah Ice To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Message-ID: <1dc.2bdb4de2.2e791bf4@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I have seen some exceptionally clear selenite listed on eBay as "Utah Ice" can anyone furnish more information as to where this "Utah Ice" is found? Thank you --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 00:40:32 EDT From: Lapadary@aol.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Utah Ice To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Message-ID: <1e3.2abc3cee.2e7921c0@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" In a message dated 9/14/04 9:16:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, MCGINNISG@aol.com writes: I have seen some exceptionally clear selenite listed on eBay as "Utah Ice" can anyone furnish more information as to where this "Utah Ice" is found? I Googled this. Maybe you don't want any Utah Ice? Grant At the end of 1997, resolution is pending in another case on theft charges of selenite crystals by professional mineral dealers caught excavating specimens in Capitol Reef National Park (Utah). The value of the stolen crystals and damage to the earthen mound collection site, which contain highly sought-after clear ??oUtah Ice??? crystals, is documented in a mineral appraisal that will be used in legal restitution of the case. Hopefully, there is a legal collecting site. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:30:56 -0400 From: "Carolyn Reynard" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 3 Famous Volcanos erupt within hours of each other To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <001201c49b1f$db111dc0$2b7ba118@feldsparflash> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Thank you Kreigh, The North Dakota Web Site's photographs of the world's volcanos certainly will fire the minds of the sixth graders. It is a must see and study for rockhounds interested in volcanos. Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 11:11 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 3 Famous Volcanos erupt within hours of each other > Carolyn, > > Two other volcano resources you don't want to miss are > > Volcano World > http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vw.html > > USGS > http://volcanoes.usgs.gov > > And thanks for letting me know the links are going to the best possible > use, educating kids about our world. > > Kreigh > > > > > Carolyn Reynard wrote: > > > > Thanks Kreigh for all the news sources on recent volcanic eruptions I am > > forwarding them on to a student teacher friend teaching sixth grade earth > > science. sunstone > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 07:55:52 -0500 From: Mike Flannigan Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mines and Crystals To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Message-ID: <41483BD8.B731D097@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If you are talking about the Sweetwater mine near Joplin, maybe they obtained it from the tailings pile. Mike > Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 16:57:56 -0700 (PDT) > From: JOHN GERSTNER > Subject: [Rockhounds] Mines and Crystals > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Message-ID: <20040914235756.18629.qmail@web81006.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I live just outside of St. louis Mo and have been to a few rock shows in the area. I've seen crystals that came from various mines from this area, Sweetwater mine being one of them. I was wondering how people obtain these crystals from these mines? Is it a matter of knowing some miners working there who are kind enough to obtain them for you during their work day? > Thanks in advance! > > Cedarhill_rockhound ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 09:27:08 -0400 From: Pete Richards Subject: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I remember reading a rather detailed description of some hazards of treating specimens with Waller solution (sodium citrate, sodium dithionite, sodium bicarbonate). Hopefully it was on this list and/or somebody on the list can point me to it. Waller solution is used to remove iron oxides from specimens under conditions of neutral pH, and while it can damage some specimens (for example, it will also remove calcium from some minerals), it is generally a relatively gentle and often quite effective treatment for iron oxide discoloration. Recently I had a different experience, however. I am fighting to save (or extend the life of) a pyrite/marcasite specimen afflicted with "pyrite disease". It was starting to crack, and efflorescences of iron sulfate (presumably) were apparent in spots. I soaked it with many changes of water to remove the oxidation products, but toward the end of this process I wound up with a coating of iron oxide in some places. Ah, Waller solution, I thought. In it went, and things were going fine. After an hour or so, most of the rust was gone. I decided to let it soak overnight. In the morning, I opened the sealed jar, and noticed a decided odor of hydrogen sulfide (rotten eggs). On parts of the specimen were new deposits of black color, which I presume are iron sulfide (FeS). There were a lot of sulfur compounds throwing their ions around in that solution. Any astute chemist want to explain what was going on? Is this experience a general warning against using Waller solution on sulfides? Or just on ones with pyrite disease?! Pete Richards -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 10:04:30 -0400 From: "Lawrence Rush" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mines and Crystals To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <002a01c49b2c$ed47f9c0$7c8c4c0c@fekib> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" John: You might want to visit the Red Rooster mineral shop in Rolla. The owner, Larry Nuelle, is a geologist who works for the Doe Run Company and is well acquainted with the Sweetwater material, and also has lots to sell in his shop. Larry Rush ----- Original Message ----- From: JOHN GERSTNER To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 7:57 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Mines and Crystals I live just outside of St. louis Mo and have been to a few rock shows in the area. I've seen crystals that came from various mines from this area, Sweetwater mine being one of them. I was wondering how people obtain these crystals from these mines? Is it a matter of knowing some miners working there who are kind enough to obtain them for you during their work day? Thanks in advance! Cedarhill_rockhound --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:21:35 -0600 From: "Margaret Malm" Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Utah Ice To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Message-ID: <20040915142135.87133EAB1D1@delivery.infowest.com> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="US-ASCII" -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Lapadary@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:41 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Utah Ice In a message dated 9/14/04 9:16:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, MCGINNISG@aol.com writes: < Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hi All, A local jeweler has an order for a Parti Sapphire, does anyone on the list know where to acquire such a critter? Any assistance will be appreciated. Thanks, Dave Phillips Sunset Fossils & Minerals Morgantown, WV _WVFossils@aol.com_ (mailto:WVFossils@aol.com) _Betdav97@aol.com_ (mailto:Betdav97@aol.com) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 10:05:51 -0500 From: "Henry Barwood" Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Pete, What probably happened is that the dithionite reduced the Fe sulfates taken into solution. You likely got a coating of poorly crystallized mixed iron sulfides (can't remember the names, but they are the ones that form in estuaries, etc.). This is a reaction that occurs slowly, and it was the extended soak that likely caused problems. Having said that, you may have to live with the results, or let the pyrite disease reform and try again. Henry -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Pete Richards Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 8:27 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease I remember reading a rather detailed description of some hazards of treating specimens with Waller solution (sodium citrate, sodium dithionite, sodium bicarbonate). Hopefully it was on this list and/or somebody on the list can point me to it. Waller solution is used to remove iron oxides from specimens under conditions of neutral pH, and while it can damage some specimens (for example, it will also remove calcium from some minerals), it is generally a relatively gentle and often quite effective treatment for iron oxide discoloration. Recently I had a different experience, however. I am fighting to save (or extend the life of) a pyrite/marcasite specimen afflicted with "pyrite disease". It was starting to crack, and efflorescences of iron sulfate (presumably) were apparent in spots. I soaked it with many changes of water to remove the oxidation products, but toward the end of this process I wound up with a coating of iron oxide in some places. Ah, Waller solution, I thought. In it went, and things were going fine. After an hour or so, most of the rust was gone. I decided to let it soak overnight. In the morning, I opened the sealed jar, and noticed a decided odor of hydrogen sulfide (rotten eggs). On parts of the specimen were new deposits of black color, which I presume are iron sulfide (FeS). There were a lot of sulfur compounds throwing their ions around in that solution. Any astute chemist want to explain what was going on? Is this experience a general warning against using Waller solution on sulfides? Or just on ones with pyrite disease?! Pete Richards -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:03:57 -0700 From: "Dri" Subject: [Rockhounds] Inland SwapTop 6 1/2" Trim Saw To: "Rockhounds" Message-ID: <003101c49b35$3a590120$6701a8c0@dslverizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Y'All: I do not post very often, instead, find myself soaking up knowledge as I read each and every post. Now, I find I need your opinions. We are looking to purchase our first Trim Saw and I would like input from y'all on reputation and reliability of the Lapidary equipment from Inland Craft Products Co. What are considering purchasing is: SwapTopT 6 1/2" Trim Saw Includes: Motor unit, base, table housing with metal table insert, 6?" Diamond Coated Blade, blade guard, blade arbor, fence, and instruction guide. a.. Size: 12" wide x 10" deep x 6.75" high b.. Motor Type: Permanent Magnet DC c.. Motor Torque: 31 oz-in (.213 N/M) d.. Motor RPM: 2800 e.. Arbor OD: .500" f.. Fits 6" and 6?" blades g.. Warranty: Two Year Full Confidence Warranty They have a deal on right now through eBay where we can purchase this saw with the optional coolant resivore included at no additional charge. The URL for the Inland Website is: http://www.inlandlapidary.com/singleproduct.asp?search=Lapidary+Saws&partnum=10670 Your valued/experienced opinions and comments are desired before we make this purchase. Hugs Dri-Anna WA - USA Home Page: http://twospirit.net/index.html.htm http://www.twospirit.net/MyHobbyAfricanVioletCollectionP1.htm --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:58:11 -0600 From: Michael Schmidt Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Parti Sapphire To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <003d01c49b34$6b61e940$6402a8c0@remains> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 a parti sapphire is simply a bicolour or tricolour sapphire..... what do you need? I can supply you with a number of stones. find out what the customer (and your jeweller) want to spend, what colours they would like (usually bicolours are green/yellow or blue/yellow...although I recently sold a very unique one that was violet/blue/violet) and what size and cut they want. we can go from there Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 8:29 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Parti Sapphire > Hi All, > A local jeweler has an order for a Parti Sapphire, does anyone on > the list know where to acquire such a critter? Any assistance will be > appreciated. Thanks, > Dave Phillips > Sunset Fossils & Minerals > Morgantown, WV > _WVFossils@aol.com_ (mailto:WVFossils@aol.com) > _Betdav97@aol.com_ (mailto:Betdav97@aol.com) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 10:26:46 -0500 From: kjvgorock@juno.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Wolf Creek Pass Geodes To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Message-ID: <20040915.102646.1324.2.kjvgorock@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi all, I'm a geode collector and would like to trade with someone for a nice geode from the Wolf Creek Pass area in Colorado. I've seen the write ups describing small light amethyst lined geodes from that area, even attempted to collect there in my early rockhound years & never found any. I'd be willing to trade some fine Keokuk type geodes for one. Please email me off list if you are interested. Thanks, Kenneth Vaisvil kjvgorock@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 11:32:04 EDT From: BETDAV97@aol.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Utah Ice To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hi, I've done two Google searches and can't find the info on the theft. Please send url, if you have it. I have a nice crystal from Utah, that came from some Gulch, I've lost the label, and I am trying to locate where it came from. Thanks, Dave --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 15:40:54 +0000 From: morningstar@att.net Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <091520041540.25403.414862860000AED20000633B21602807419D0E9B9C090207029D0103 @att.net> Hi guys, Sounds like melanterite is involved--is the white efflorescent material water soluble? I have used compounds similar to sodium dithionite, Na2S2O4, and they have evolved a "rotten egg" smell during use. A tip about H2S: the olfactory detecability threshold is very low; when you smell it, the concentration is rather low. However, your olfactory sense numbs to H2S as you continue to breathe it, so it's when you *don't* smell it that you're in the biggest trouble. A concentration of 300 ppm represents an immediate danger to life and health (IDLH)--not as bad as HCN (cyanide), ozone, and hydrogen fluoride--but certainly worthy of the highest respect. Deadly Don > Hi Pete, > > What probably happened is that the dithionite reduced the Fe sulfates taken > into solution. You likely got a coating of poorly crystallized mixed iron > sulfides (can't remember the names, but they are the ones that form in > estuaries, etc.). This is a reaction that occurs slowly, and it was the > extended soak that likely caused problems. Having said that, you may have to > live with the results, or let the pyrite disease reform and try again. > > Henry > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Pete Richards > Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 8:27 AM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease > > > I remember reading a rather detailed description of some hazards of treating > specimens with Waller solution (sodium citrate, sodium dithionite, sodium > bicarbonate). Hopefully it was on this list and/or somebody on the list can > point me to it. > > Waller solution is used to remove iron oxides from specimens under > conditions of neutral pH, and while it can damage some specimens (for > example, it will also remove calcium from some minerals), it is generally a > relatively gentle and often quite effective treatment for iron oxide > discoloration. Recently I had a different experience, however. > > I am fighting to save (or extend the life of) a pyrite/marcasite specimen > afflicted with "pyrite disease". It was starting to crack, and > efflorescences of iron sulfate (presumably) were apparent in spots. I > soaked it with many changes of water to remove the oxidation products, but > toward the end of this process I wound up with a coating of iron oxide in > some places. Ah, Waller solution, I thought. > > In it went, and things were going fine. After an hour or so, most of the > rust was gone. I decided to let it soak overnight. In the morning, I > opened the sealed jar, and noticed a decided odor of hydrogen sulfide > (rotten eggs). On parts of the specimen were new deposits of black color, > which I presume are iron sulfide (FeS). > > There were a lot of sulfur compounds throwing their ions around in that > solution. Any astute chemist want to explain what was going on? Is this > experience a general warning against using Waller solution on sulfides? Or > just on ones with pyrite disease?! > > Pete Richards > -- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > R. Peter Richards > rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu > > Mineral collector > Crystallographer > SHAPE for the Macintosh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 12:48:34 EDT From: Gslrocks@aol.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Utah Ice To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Message-ID: <1e9.2a8ee52a.2e79cc62@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Feller stone in Utah has been selling this material to the pet industry for 20 years. The only problem is if it it put into an aquarium it disssolves leaving the water hardened. Greg Lesinski GSLROCKS 4726 Porter Center Rd. Lewiston NY 14092 Fluorescent minerals, ultraviolet lamps and reference books website www.gslrocks.com GSLROCKS@AOL.COM 716-754-9729 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 13:48:33 -0600 From: Michael Schmidt Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Utah Ice To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <004701c49b5c$fbbef9b0$6402a8c0@remains> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 http://www.transcriptbulletin.com/archives/4.11.00/mining.html http://www.transcriptbulletin.com/archives/5.2.00/mining.html http://www2.nature.nps.gov/YearinReview/yr_rvw97/chapter06/chapter06_a03.html ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Utah Ice > Hi, > I've done two Google searches and can't find the info on the theft. > Please send url, if you have it. I have a nice crystal from Utah, that > came from some Gulch, I've lost the label, and I am trying to locate > where it came from. Thanks, > Dave > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 15:59:59 EDT From: Lapadary@aol.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Utah Ice To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Message-ID: <1d0.2b2815a7.2e79f93f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 9/15/04 12:51:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time, BETDAV97@aol.com writes: Hi, I've done two Google searches and can't find the info on the theft. Please send url, if you have it. I have a nice crystal from Utah, that came from some Gulch, I've lost the label, and I am trying to locate where it came from. Thanks, Dave ------------------------------ GOOGLE - "utah ice" selenite - AND THE 4TH HIT IS 'Chapter 6' I don't know what that is but there must be Chapters 1 5 also. Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 16:06:43 -0400 From: "Lawrence Rush" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mines and Crystals To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <001501c49b5f$86ea0aa0$43884c0c@fekib> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sorry, that may be "The Brass Rooster", mineral shop; I disremember................. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lawrence Rush To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mines and Crystals John: You might want to visit the Red Rooster mineral shop in Rolla. The owner, Larry Nuelle, is a geologist who works for the Doe Run Company and is well acquainted with the Sweetwater material, and also has lots to sell in his shop. Larry Rush ----- Original Message ----- From: JOHN GERSTNER To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 7:57 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Mines and Crystals I live just outside of St. louis Mo and have been to a few rock shows in the area. I've seen crystals that came from various mines from this area, Sweetwater mine being one of them. I was wondering how people obtain these crystals from these mines? Is it a matter of knowing some miners working there who are kind enough to obtain them for you during their work day? Thanks in advance! Cedarhill_rockhound --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 13:50:19 -0700 From: Richard Trapp Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mines and Crystals To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <4148AB0B.3020509@azgs.az.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Brass Rooster is correct and as long as we're doing corrections (from another message - ) Joplin is in SW Missouri and the Sweetwater Mine is at the southern end of the Viburnum trend in SE Missouri... Lawrence Rush wrote: >Sorry, that may be "The Brass Rooster", mineral shop; I disremember................. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lawrence Rush > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 10:04 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mines and Crystals > > > John: You might want to visit the Red Rooster mineral shop in Rolla. The owner, Larry Nuelle, is a geologist who works for the Doe Run Company and is well acquainted with the Sweetwater material, and also has lots to sell in his shop. > Larry Rush > ----- Original Message ----- > From: JOHN GERSTNER > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 7:57 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Mines and Crystals > > > I live just outside of St. louis Mo and have been to a few rock shows in the area. I've seen crystals that came from various mines from this area, Sweetwater mine being one of them. I was wondering how people obtain these crystals from these mines? Is it a matter of knowing some miners working there who are kind enough to obtain them for you during their work day? > Thanks in advance! > > Cedarhill_rockhound > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > -- Rick Trapp Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 11:56:36 -1000 From: Kitty & Bill Heacox Subject: [Rockhounds] Re Utah Ice-- word lovers To: Michael Schmidt , "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040915114705.02eb2700@mail.aloha.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 09:48 AM 9/15/2004, Michael Schmidt wrote: >..... >http://www2.nature.nps.gov/YearinReview/yr_rvw97/chapter06/chapter06_a03.ht ml In the article above is a wonderful word: FLOCCINAUCINHILIPILIFICATION * I love it! Say that three times really fast! Actually, just try to say it at all! Thanks for sharing that and the other URLs, Michael. Aloha, Kitty *Floccinaucinhilipilification means the "estimation of something as valueless" and is often used as an argument by the defense counsel to reduce the charges for destruction of mineral resources such as cave speleothems like gypsum crystals, calcite stalactites, and stalagmites to a misdemeanor and small fine. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 16:58:17 -0500 From: J B Murowchick Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hi Pete- I concur with Henry's explanation. The only thing I'd add is that if the black stains are indeed new deposition of Fe-S phases like amorphous FeS, mackinawite or greigite, they may be very soluble in even fairly dilute HCl. I would try wiping them with a cotton swab moistened with a little dilute HCl (say, 1M) if you don't want to immerse the specimen. 10% HCl might work, too, but not as quickly as a stronger solution. I routinely cleaned mackinawite off an iron electrode by dipping it in conc. HCl, and the black film disappeared instantly. I then dipped the electrode in clean water, then in acetone to dry it quickly. Jim Murowchick __________________________________________________________ Dr. James B. Murowchick Associate Professor Office: (816) 235-2979 Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall Fax: (816) 235-5535 University of Missouri-Kansas City E-mail: murowchickj@umkc.edu 5110 Rockhill Road Kansas City, MO 64110 on 9/15/04 10:05 AM, Henry Barwood at hbarwood@troyst.edu wrote: > Hi Pete, > > What probably happened is that the dithionite reduced the Fe sulfates taken > into solution. You likely got a coating of poorly crystallized mixed iron > sulfides (can't remember the names, but they are the ones that form in > estuaries, etc.). This is a reaction that occurs slowly, and it was the > extended soak that likely caused problems. Having said that, you may have to > live with the results, or let the pyrite disease reform and try again. > > Henry > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Pete Richards > Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 8:27 AM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease > > > I remember reading a rather detailed description of some hazards of treating > specimens with Waller solution (sodium citrate, sodium dithionite, sodium > bicarbonate). Hopefully it was on this list and/or somebody on the list can > point me to it. > > Waller solution is used to remove iron oxides from specimens under > conditions of neutral pH, and while it can damage some specimens (for > example, it will also remove calcium from some minerals), it is generally a > relatively gentle and often quite effective treatment for iron oxide > discoloration. Recently I had a different experience, however. > > I am fighting to save (or extend the life of) a pyrite/marcasite specimen > afflicted with "pyrite disease". It was starting to crack, and > efflorescences of iron sulfate (presumably) were apparent in spots. I > soaked it with many changes of water to remove the oxidation products, but > toward the end of this process I wound up with a coating of iron oxide in > some places. Ah, Waller solution, I thought. > > In it went, and things were going fine. After an hour or so, most of the > rust was gone. I decided to let it soak overnight. In the morning, I > opened the sealed jar, and noticed a decided odor of hydrogen sulfide > (rotten eggs). On parts of the specimen were new deposits of black color, > which I presume are iron sulfide (FeS). > > There were a lot of sulfur compounds throwing their ions around in that > solution. Any astute chemist want to explain what was going on? Is this > experience a general warning against using Waller solution on sulfides? Or > just on ones with pyrite disease?! > > Pete Richards > -- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > R. Peter Richards > rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu > > Mineral collector > Crystallographer > SHAPE for the Macintosh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ------------------------------ Message: 25 Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 00:00:49 +0200 From: "Axel Emmermann" Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Indeed Don, H2S is in fact a nerve gas (many of those are based on sulfur and phosphor, btw). It hinders the chemical transmission of pulses between nerve ends (something to do with a reaction with acetylcholine or something along those lines)... Another highly toxic sulfide is CS2 (carbon disulfide), which has the same effect and also sedates the olfactory nerves. Both chemicals have rather specific odors: H2S smells like rotten eggs while CS2 smells like a stale... hm, how shall I put it... Oh yes; think of the abbreviation for "French Association of Retired Talapoins" Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens morningstar@att.net Verzonden: woensdag 15 september 2004 17:41 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease Hi guys, Sounds like melanterite is involved--is the white efflorescent material water soluble? I have used compounds similar to sodium dithionite, Na2S2O4, and they have evolved a "rotten egg" smell during use. A tip about H2S: the olfactory detecability threshold is very low; when you smell it, the concentration is rather low. However, your olfactory sense numbs to H2S as you continue to breathe it, so it's when you *don't* smell it that you're in the biggest trouble. A concentration of 300 ppm represents an immediate danger to life and health (IDLH)--not as bad as HCN (cyanide), ozone, and hydrogen fluoride--but certainly worthy of the highest respect. Deadly Don > Hi Pete, > > What probably happened is that the dithionite reduced the Fe sulfates taken > into solution. You likely got a coating of poorly crystallized mixed iron > sulfides (can't remember the names, but they are the ones that form in > estuaries, etc.). This is a reaction that occurs slowly, and it was the > extended soak that likely caused problems. Having said that, you may have to > live with the results, or let the pyrite disease reform and try again. > > Henry > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Pete Richards > Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 8:27 AM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease > > > I remember reading a rather detailed description of some hazards of treating > specimens with Waller solution (sodium citrate, sodium dithionite, sodium > bicarbonate). Hopefully it was on this list and/or somebody on the list can > point me to it. > > Waller solution is used to remove iron oxides from specimens under > conditions of neutral pH, and while it can damage some specimens (for > example, it will also remove calcium from some minerals), it is generally a > relatively gentle and often quite effective treatment for iron oxide > discoloration. Recently I had a different experience, however. > > I am fighting to save (or extend the life of) a pyrite/marcasite specimen > afflicted with "pyrite disease". It was starting to crack, and > efflorescences of iron sulfate (presumably) were apparent in spots. I > soaked it with many changes of water to remove the oxidation products, but > toward the end of this process I wound up with a coating of iron oxide in > some places. Ah, Waller solution, I thought. > > In it went, and things were going fine. After an hour or so, most of the > rust was gone. I decided to let it soak overnight. In the morning, I > opened the sealed jar, and noticed a decided odor of hydrogen sulfide > (rotten eggs). On parts of the specimen were new deposits of black color, > which I presume are iron sulfide (FeS). > > There were a lot of sulfur compounds throwing their ions around in that > solution. Any astute chemist want to explain what was going on? Is this > experience a general warning against using Waller solution on sulfides? Or > just on ones with pyrite disease?! > > Pete Richards > -- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > R. Peter Richards > rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu > > Mineral collector > Crystallographer > SHAPE for the Macintosh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ------------------------------ Message: 26 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 23:06:37 +0100 From: Andy Parker Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Inland SwapTop 6 1/2" Trim Saw To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Looks like a standard 'tile saw' to me. I got a new one here (UK) for the equivalent of about 55 USD - swap in a cheap lapidary blade for another 10 dollars and off you go. Or get the 'Rock Rascal' and pay the same for a lapidary item. Cheers Andy Parker, Agate House Lapidary Ulverston, Cumbria, England andy@agatehouse.co.uk www.agatehouse.co.uk Tel: 01229 584023 ------------------------------ Message: 27 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 19:28:59 -0400 From: Kreigh Tomaszewski Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Parti Sapphire To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <4148CF9D.79FB@Tomaszewski.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii BETDAV97@aol.com wrote: > > Hi All, > A local jeweler has an order for a Parti Sapphire, does anyone on > the list know where to acquire such a critter? Any assistance will be > appreciated. Thanks, > Dave Phillips > Sunset Fossils & Minerals > Morgantown, WV > _WVFossils@aol.com_ (mailto:WVFossils@aol.com) > _Betdav97@aol.com_ (mailto:Betdav97@aol.com) > Searching on Google for 'parti sapphire' came up with many dealers offering this gemstone. ------------------------------ Message: 28 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 19:43:19 -0400 From: Kreigh Tomaszewski Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Utah Ice To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <4148D2F8.7C2D@Tomaszewski.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mindat shows more than a dozen selenite locations in Utah. There may be legal sources. Lapadary@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 9/14/04 9:16:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > MCGINNISG@aol.com writes: > I have seen some exceptionally clear selenite listed on eBay as "Utah Ice" > can anyone furnish more information as to where this "Utah Ice" is found? > > I Googled this. Maybe you don't want any Utah Ice? Grant > At the end of 1997, resolution is pending in another case on theft charges of > selenite crystals by professional mineral dealers caught excavating specimens > in Capitol Reef National Park (Utah). The value of the stolen crystals and > damage to the earthen mound collection site, which contain highly sought-after > clear ?*oUtah Ice?** crystals, is documented in a mineral appraisal that will be > used in legal restitution of the case. > Hopefully, there is a legal collecting site. ------------------------------ Message: 29 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 20:11:45 -0400 From: Pete Richards Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Waller solution and pyrite disease To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Don and Axel (and list), Good comments. You bet the efflorescence is water soluble, the stuff kept coming out of the specimen for days as I soaked it. And given the mineralogy, it must be FeSO4, which is melanterite when appropriately hydrated. Hydrogen sulfide is indeed a gas we are highly sensitive to. You say we become numb to it. I would agree that it is a bad idea to just ignore it and keep sniffing the jar. But I assume the numbing is short-term, and two weeks later when we sniff it again, we'll be just as sensitive to it. What do you know about this exposure and recovery aspect? Regards, Pete >Hi guys, > > >Sounds like melanterite is involved--is the white efflorescent material water soluble? > >I have used compounds similar to sodium dithionite, Na2S2O4, and they have evolved a >"rotten egg" smell during use. > >A tip about H2S: the olfactory detecability threshold is very low; when you smell it, the concentration is rather low. However, your olfactory sense numbs to H2S as you continue to breathe it, so it's when you *don't* smell it that you're in the biggest trouble. A concentration of 300 ppm represents an immediate danger to life and health (IDLH)--not as bad as HCN (cyanide), ozone, and hydrogen fluoride--but certainly worthy of the highest respect. > >Deadly Don > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Rockhounds mailing list Rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds End of Rockhounds Digest, Vol 4, Issue 15 ***************************************** From dbomke at insightbb.com Fri Sep 24 09:06:48 2004 From: dbomke at insightbb.com (dbomke) Date: Fri Sep 24 09:06:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Upcoming Show in Springfield, Illinois References: <46.5992960b.2e85930c@aol.com> Message-ID: <00ed01c4a250$7f9f3480$4ef5dd0c@D5K94V21> The annual Lincoln Orbit Earth Science Society (LOESS) Gem, Mineral and Fossil Show will be held October 2 & 3 at the Illinois Building on the Illinois State Fairgrounds in Springfield, Illinois. This year's show will be celebrating the club's 50th Anniversary with a theme of "Gold 'n Dinosaurs!" The special display will consist of 10 display cases of "gold" including jewelry, coins, raw gold, gold ore, mining artifacts and "golden" minerals. Displays contain material from the Smithsonian Institution, the Seaman Museum, the Illinois State Museum and a number of collectors. The dinosaur part of the display will include material from the University of Chicago, including Rugops primus ("Wrinkle Face"), the African carnivore recently discovered and identified by Paul Sereno. There will also be 11 dealers, a silent auction, Spin & Win for the kids, a junior activity area, mineral identification, geode cracking, flint knapping, a gem flume, demonstrations on many aspects of the hobby and large array of member displays that include, meteorites, petrified wood, fossils, minerals, lapidary arts work, gems and many other things. On Saturday only there will be a swap. Admission is $2.00 with Seniors (65 and over) admitted for $1.00 and Scouts in uniform, 4-H groups and children under 12 admitted free with an adult. There is plenty of free parking and food will be available all day. Hours are 10:00 am to 6:00 pm on Saturday the 2nd and 10:00 am to 5:00 pm in Sunday the 3rd. From shm at tapnet.net Fri Sep 24 09:13:09 2004 From: shm at tapnet.net (SHM) Date: Fri Sep 24 09:14:31 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? In-Reply-To: <008101c4a23f$28a926b0$6401a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <000001c4a251$895de7e0$a6e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Good afternoon Tim, Yes, by all means emphasize things like locality, matrix, associations, etc., but please don't downplay the rest -- hardness testing, acid testing, observation of luster and crystal form, etc. If you don't teach these things you might be setting some of your newbies up for a bit of a shock. Here's why: tomorrow is our mineral show at Franklin (NJ). I can guarantee that I will be stopped several times by collectors asking me to identify a specimen for them. I always ask what THEY did to identify it. If they didn't even use an acid test to determine if they had a carbonate I will hand the specimen back to them and try to find some gentle way of saying "I'm not doing your work for you. There are simple tests within the means and capabilities of any of you. When you've exhausted those tests and still have an unknown, then talk to me." It's not that I'm a curmudgeon (well, maybe I am), but there really are quite a few of us who tire of the "users", people who always want a favor but could have answered their own question if only they'd tried. So please tell them to get that acid, the copper penny, the nail, etc. and do some elementary tests along with all the other things you mentioned, BEFORE consulting anyone else with a request for an ID. Thanks! Earl Verbeek -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Tim Jokela Jr. Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 10:03 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? In a brief moment of weakness at the last club exec meeting I volunteered to give a talk on how to ID minerals. It's aimed at the newbies, and I plan to emphasize things like locality, matrix, associations, literature, and EDS/SEM, - stuff I actually use all the time, not stuff like streak and acid testing that all the pocketbooks suggest but nobody really ever uses. If any of the hardcore collectors out there have some tips or tricks to share, it would be most appreciated. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From murowchickj at umkc.edu Fri Sep 24 09:16:07 2004 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (J B Murowchick) Date: Fri Sep 24 09:16:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello all, As the son of a mineralogist and collector, and now being in the position of training students to identify minerals, here's my 2 cents worth. The number one tool is simply experience--the more mineral specimens you look at, the easier it becomes to ID. Birdwatchers call it "giss" (general impression, size and shape) when they ID a black spot in the sky as a broad-winged hawk, and not a crow, red-tailed hawk, turkey vulture, or anything else. Experience develops a sense of giss for mineral identification--especially for the important rock-forming minerals. Common field tests (hardness, streak, acid test, magnetism, etc.) are still useful, but aren't used all the time because they don't need to be used on every specimen. Often, observation of the color, luster, cleavage, and association provide enough information for identification. When the choices have been reduced to a few possibilities (e.g., calcite vs. dolomite), a simple field test will solve the problem. Associations and knowledge of the locality are also VERY important--if you are in elephant country, then it's likely you'll find elephants. I found a crystal-lined vug in dolomite in a roadcut near Farmington, MO with some small (0.5mm) submetallic reddish-black equant xls on tan saddle dolomite. My location--in one of the largest lead-zinc districts in the world--led me to consider the possibilities: sphalerite, galena, pyrite, or a FeOOH pseudomorph as most likely. When I got the specimen home, I examined it under the stereo microscope, and could clearly see striations on cube faces. It was a heavily tarnished pyrite crystal. So this ID was based on associations, knowledge about the mineralization in the area, and crystallography. When I've been collecting oddball minerals (Mt Ste. Hilaire,QUE., Magnet Cove/Potash Sulfur Springs, AR, etc.), crystal appearance (color, morphology), associations, and mode of occurrence come into play first (after knowing I'm in elephant, lion, and gazelle country). Then I often examine a small chip or crystal under the polarized light microscope with immersion oils to make and ID. If the sample is large enough, I'll use powder Xray diffraction, but that's only if I have enough sample that I can pulverize some. In rare cases, and if someone else is paying for beam time), I'll use SEM/EDS. At about $90/hr beam time on the instrument at our dental school, though, I don't do that very often. And I rarely need to go that far--usually polarized light microscopy and immersion oils will clinch the ID. Obviously, the more sophisticated the ID method, the fewer the number of collectors that will have access to those methods. For the vast majority of collectors, knowing in advance what you are likely to find, and familiarizing yourself with the characteristic features of those minerals, go a long way toward making good IDs of your specimens. There are excellent publications on Mt Ste Hilaire, Langbach, and other classic localities. Min Record and Rock and Minerals have excellent photos and descriptions of minerals and localities, and I make extensive use of them when collecting. Finally, for the ones that really stump me--I ask an expert. Look in the mineralogical journals for authors who have worked on a specific locality or mineral. Then send them an e-mail. I think that most academic mineralogists are willing to help in that way if a large time commitment is not required. Jim ______________________________________________________ Dr. James B. Murowchick Associate Professor Office: (816) 235-2979 Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall Fax: (816) 235-5535 University of Missouri-Kansas City E-mail: murowchickj@umkc.edu 5110 Rockhill Road Kansas City, MO 64110 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From shm at tapnet.net Fri Sep 24 09:22:55 2004 From: shm at tapnet.net (SHM) Date: Fri Sep 24 09:23:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? In-Reply-To: <008101c4a23f$28a926b0$6401a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <000101c4a252$ddd70210$a6e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Sorry, just thought of an important caveat to my previous message. When dealing with the public, as Bill Cordua was writing about, I will of course freely supply a sight ID if possible, and I will also supply as much supplemental information as I think the person might be interested in. I try to encourage interest in minerals whenever I can -- it's a good hobby, and those who adopt it represent our future. When dealing with a longtime collector, however, I respond as in my last message. It's the equivalent of telling a child to get the dictionary instead of just telling him or her what a word means -- by making the child look the word up, you are encouraging good habits and self-reliance. It sometimes works on adults too. Cheers- Earl -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Tim Jokela Jr. Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 10:03 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? In a brief moment of weakness at the last club exec meeting I volunteered to give a talk on how to ID minerals. It's aimed at the newbies, and I plan to emphasize things like locality, matrix, associations, literature, and EDS/SEM, - stuff I actually use all the time, not stuff like streak and acid testing that all the pocketbooks suggest but nobody really ever uses. If any of the hardcore collectors out there have some tips or tricks to share, it would be most appreciated. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tim at orerockon.com Fri Sep 24 09:30:17 2004 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Sep 24 09:30:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mailing Expensive Stones In-Reply-To: <4150E0C3.25FA@Tomaszewski.net> References: <1c2.1ea164a8.2e819284@aol.com> <006801c4a02f$961fa5a0$f25a2741@MCWIDOM> <4150E0C3.25FA@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20040924092751.02e0b8e0@mail.spiritone.com> Delivery confirmation is 14 cents and is all you need to track a package from start to finish on the web with the USPS. I use it in lieu of insurance and so far it has worked perfectly. I think insurance is a waste of money as I have never heard of a claim being honored by the USPS. I was told to use delivery confirmation instead of buying insurance by a USPS employee, BTW, and I believe him. At 07:20 PM 9/21/2004, you wrote: Most of the rocks I purchase, even those under $20, come insured priority mail and I have to sign to receive them. I'm not sure, but I think registered only adds a layer of tracking, but I suspect it would also make it harder to steal because of the tracking. I personally ship rocks just priority mail and have never had a package go astray. But I would probably add insurance if it was valuable (like over $500). YMMV. Keep your receipts and records so you have the paperwork needed to make a claim. Kreigh Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site Owner, Fisher Fisheries, Ltd. nospam@OreRockOn.com WWW http://OreRockOn.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu Fri Sep 24 09:30:42 2004 From: william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu (William Cordua) Date: Fri Sep 24 09:30:47 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? In-Reply-To: <000001c4a251$895de7e0$a6e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: I have to agree with Earl that a lot of folks don't do the simple tests. However, another aspect is knowing what to do with the results of the tests. In other words, how to key out the results on some table to arrive at an identification. Many mineral books fall down on this big time by not having good basic tables, or by lumping minerals together by some superfluous property such as color. Other include so many rare minerals that the tables are worthless ("there are 549 minerals meeting those criteria"). Still others encourage you to look at pictures of minerals in the hopes that your mineral will look like its picture. They hardly ever do. I use a book entitled "Dana's Minerals and How to Study Them" by Hurlbut and Sharp, which is not only a concise and well-written introduction to mineralogy aimed at collectors, but has very good I.D. tables in the back covering perhaps 200 minerals. Most things we find are the common minerals, so if it doesn't fit, then seek the expert. Best wishes - Bill Cordua Dr. William S. Cordua Professor of Geology/Mineralogy University of Wisconsin - River Falls 410 South Third Street River Falls, WI 54022 715-425-3139 william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu http://www.uwrf.edu/~william.s.cordua/ "Speak to the Earth and it shall teach thee" - Job 12:8 on 9/24/04 11:13 AM, SHM at shm@tapnet.net wrote: > > Good afternoon Tim, > > Yes, by all means emphasize things like locality, matrix, associations, > etc., but please don't downplay the rest -- hardness testing, acid testing, > observation of luster and crystal form, etc. If you don't teach these > things you might be setting some of your newbies up for a bit of a shock. > Here's why: tomorrow is our mineral show at Franklin (NJ). I can guarantee > that I will be stopped several times by collectors asking me to identify a > specimen for them. I always ask what THEY did to identify it. If they > didn't even use an acid test to determine if they had a carbonate I will > hand the specimen back to them and try to find some gentle way of saying > "I'm not doing your work for you. There are simple tests within the means > and capabilities of any of you. When you've exhausted those tests and still > have an unknown, then talk to me." > > It's not that I'm a curmudgeon (well, maybe I am), but there really are > quite a few of us who tire of the "users", people who always want a favor > but could have answered their own question if only they'd tried. So please > tell them to get that acid, the copper penny, the nail, etc. and do some > elementary tests along with all the other things you mentioned, BEFORE > consulting anyone else with a request for an ID. > > Thanks! Earl Verbeek > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Tim Jokela Jr. > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 10:03 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? > > In a brief moment of weakness at the last club exec meeting I volunteered to > give a talk on how to ID minerals. > > It's aimed at the newbies, and I plan to emphasize things like locality, > matrix, associations, literature, and EDS/SEM, - stuff I actually use all > the time, not stuff like streak and acid testing that all the pocketbooks > suggest but nobody really ever uses. > > If any of the hardcore collectors out there have some tips or tricks to > share, it would be most appreciated. > > Cheers, > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From DOMMELEN at DAL.CA Fri Sep 24 10:36:02 2004 From: DOMMELEN at DAL.CA (Ronnie Van Dommelen) Date: Fri Sep 24 10:36:07 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? In-Reply-To: <008101c4a23f$28a926b0$6401a8c0@Junior> References: <008101c4a23f$28a926b0$6401a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <1096047362.41545b02ae0f5@my2.dal.ca> Tim, Two examples that I have used that did use acid and chemical/physical tests. In an old Min Rec one of the articles by Bill Henderson Jr. uses a closed tube to melt a tiny fragment over a flame when trying to distinguish arsenopyrite and marcasite. I find many tests are much more difficult than described, but this one worked perfectly. My wife got a few tiny capillary tubes, I melted the end over a lighter and used only a tiny mineral chip (less than 1 mm). A yellow band indicated marcasite (a silvery band would have been arsenopyrite). I also tried arsenopyrite from another locality and it worked perfectly. Stilbnite can also be IDed using the same method. It was a real learning experience for me, and was lots of fun! Also quick and easy. Might make a nice demo, too. A pic of the previously unknown crystal is shown on http://www.optics.ee.dal.ca/website/EastKemp.html Somewhere (Petersons Field Guide - the thicker one)(?) I read that a little HCl on linarite produced a white coating on the mineral. This is useful for distinguishing it from azurite which will bubble. I used this to give an initial indentification of linarite from the Dunbrack Mine. In fact everything that I have tested from the mine comes out as linarite rather than what was previously described as azurite. A microprobe was later used as support for the ID. I also used acid to identify pseudomalachite (doesn't react while malachite does) which was later supported by both microprobe and XRD. Of course, as you say, things like associations were critical in these cases to narrow down the list of possibilities. Ronnie Van Dommelen From Lapadary at aol.com Fri Sep 24 11:19:10 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Fri Sep 24 11:19:21 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? Message-ID: <1e.341f1ddc.2e85bf1e@aol.com> In a message dated 9/24/04 7:45:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time, william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu writes: , a copper penny (pre 1983), ---------------------------------- What happened to the penny that changed it? I'm not a coin collector and don't keep up with those things. Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu Fri Sep 24 11:33:50 2004 From: william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu (William Cordua) Date: Fri Sep 24 11:33:52 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? In-Reply-To: <1e.341f1ddc.2e85bf1e@aol.com> Message-ID: The penny became a copper - zinc (?) alloy whose hardness was less than pure copper (old pennies H is about 3). This, of course, upset its use as a hardness point. You'd think the goberment would consult us all here before doing such things! Dang revenooers! BTW - I asked my intro. geology lab class for old pennies - telling them I'd pay 2 cents for every one they brought in. The kids of one of my non-traditional students went through their penny jars and nearly cleaned me out. Little entrepreneurs, they were. I do have a large sack of pennies for my lab, so won't have to worry for decades. Dr. Bill on 9/24/04 1:19 PM, Lapadary@aol.com at Lapadary@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/24/04 7:45:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu writes: > > , a copper penny (pre > 1983), > ---------------------------------- > What happened to the penny that changed it? I'm not a coin collector and > don't keep up with those things. > > Grant > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From kqhayes at chartermi.net Fri Sep 24 11:50:09 2004 From: kqhayes at chartermi.net (Keith Q Hayes) Date: Fri Sep 24 11:50:46 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jim's suggestions/descriptions are right on from my point of view. The best way to recognize minerals and locations is to look at lots of rocks and their mineral associations: that means developing your pattern recognition ability by attending lots of rock shows and museums. Look at the rocks and locations, even the ugly ones :) Ask questions, when you see something new... or old... when there are flats of materials from some location, look at the similarities and differences in matrix and associations. At Tucson or Denver, you may see 500-2,000 specimens in a room... multiply that out by the number of dealers... and one gets lots of experience in a week or so. Also, it is really great to go through old flats that dealers have stored away in their warehouse. Best Regards, Keith Hayes www.kqminerals.com kqhayes@chartermi.net 3705 Fuller Drive Midland, MI 48642 -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of J B Murowchick Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 12:16 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? Hello all, As the son of a mineralogist and collector, and now being in the position of training students to identify minerals, here's my 2 cents worth. The number one tool is simply experience--the more mineral specimens you look at, the easier it becomes to ID. Birdwatchers call it "giss" (general impression, size and shape) when they ID a black spot in the sky as a broad-winged hawk, and not a crow, red-tailed hawk, turkey vulture, or anything else. Experience develops a sense of giss for mineral identification--especially for the important rock-forming minerals. Common field tests (hardness, streak, acid test, magnetism, etc.) are still useful, but aren't used all the time because they don't need to be used on every specimen. Often, observation of the color, luster, cleavage, and association provide enough information for identification. When the choices have been reduced to a few possibilities (e.g., calcite vs. dolomite), a simple field test will solve the problem. Associations and knowledge of the locality are also VERY important--if you are in elephant country, then it's likely you'll find elephants. I found a crystal-lined vug in dolomite in a roadcut near Farmington, MO with some small (0.5mm) submetallic reddish-black equant xls on tan saddle dolomite. My location--in one of the largest lead-zinc districts in the world--led me to consider the possibilities: sphalerite, galena, pyrite, or a FeOOH pseudomorph as most likely. When I got the specimen home, I examined it under the stereo microscope, and could clearly see striations on cube faces. It was a heavily tarnished pyrite crystal. So this ID was based on associations, knowledge about the mineralization in the area, and crystallography. When I've been collecting oddball minerals (Mt Ste. Hilaire,QUE., Magnet Cove/Potash Sulfur Springs, AR, etc.), crystal appearance (color, morphology), associations, and mode of occurrence come into play first (after knowing I'm in elephant, lion, and gazelle country). Then I often examine a small chip or crystal under the polarized light microscope with immersion oils to make and ID. If the sample is large enough, I'll use powder Xray diffraction, but that's only if I have enough sample that I can pulverize some. In rare cases, and if someone else is paying for beam time), I'll use SEM/EDS. At about $90/hr beam time on the instrument at our dental school, though, I don't do that very often. And I rarely need to go that far--usually polarized light microscopy and immersion oils will clinch the ID. Obviously, the more sophisticated the ID method, the fewer the number of collectors that will have access to those methods. For the vast majority of collectors, knowing in advance what you are likely to find, and familiarizing yourself with the characteristic features of those minerals, go a long way toward making good IDs of your specimens. There are excellent publications on Mt Ste Hilaire, Langbach, and other classic localities. Min Record and Rock and Minerals have excellent photos and descriptions of minerals and localities, and I make extensive use of them when collecting. Finally, for the ones that really stump me--I ask an expert. Look in the mineralogical journals for authors who have worked on a specific locality or mineral. Then send them an e-mail. I think that most academic mineralogists are willing to help in that way if a large time commitment is not required. Jim ______________________________________________________ Dr. James B. Murowchick Associate Professor Office: (816) 235-2979 Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall Fax: (816) 235-5535 University of Missouri-Kansas City E-mail: murowchickj@umkc.edu 5110 Rockhill Road Kansas City, MO 64110 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Fri Sep 24 11:53:51 2004 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Fri Sep 24 11:53:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040924185351.7279.qmail@web51007.mail.yahoo.com> There's also a good table in electronic form on Bob's Rock Shop www.rockhounds.com Jim Daly Sauktown Sales www.sauktown.com --- William Cordua wrote: > I have to agree with Earl that a lot of folks don't > do the simple tests. > However, another aspect is knowing what to do with > the results of the tests. > In other words, how to key out the results on some > table to arrive at an > identification. Many mineral books fall down on this > big time by not having > good basic tables, or by lumping minerals together > by some superfluous > property such as color. Other include so many rare > minerals that the tables > are worthless ("there are 549 minerals meeting those > criteria"). Still > others encourage you to look at pictures of minerals > in the hopes that your > mineral will look like its picture. They hardly ever > do. I use a book > entitled "Dana's Minerals and How to Study Them" by > Hurlbut and Sharp, which > is not only a concise and well-written introduction > to mineralogy aimed at > collectors, but has very good I.D. tables in the > back covering perhaps 200 > minerals. Most things we find are the common > minerals, so if it doesn't fit, > then seek the expert. > > Best wishes - Bill Cordua > > > Dr. William S. Cordua > Professor of Geology/Mineralogy > University of Wisconsin - River Falls > 410 South Third Street > River Falls, WI 54022 > 715-425-3139 > william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu > http://www.uwrf.edu/~william.s.cordua/ > "Speak to the Earth and it shall teach thee" - Job > 12:8 > > > > on 9/24/04 11:13 AM, SHM at shm@tapnet.net wrote: > > > > > Good afternoon Tim, > > > > Yes, by all means emphasize things like locality, > matrix, associations, > > etc., but please don't downplay the rest -- > hardness testing, acid testing, > > observation of luster and crystal form, etc. If > you don't teach these > > things you might be setting some of your newbies > up for a bit of a shock. > > Here's why: tomorrow is our mineral show at > Franklin (NJ). I can guarantee > > that I will be stopped several times by collectors > asking me to identify a > > specimen for them. I always ask what THEY did to > identify it. If they > > didn't even use an acid test to determine if they > had a carbonate I will > > hand the specimen back to them and try to find > some gentle way of saying > > "I'm not doing your work for you. There are > simple tests within the means > > and capabilities of any of you. When you've > exhausted those tests and still > > have an unknown, then talk to me." > > > > It's not that I'm a curmudgeon (well, maybe I am), > but there really are > > quite a few of us who tire of the "users", people > who always want a favor > > but could have answered their own question if only > they'd tried. So please > > tell them to get that acid, the copper penny, the > nail, etc. and do some > > elementary tests along with all the other things > you mentioned, BEFORE > > consulting anyone else with a request for an ID. > > > > Thanks! Earl Verbeek > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On > Behalf Of Tim Jokela Jr. > > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 10:03 AM > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for > rock and gem collectors > > Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify > minerals? > > > > In a brief moment of weakness at the last club > exec meeting I volunteered to > > give a talk on how to ID minerals. > > > > It's aimed at the newbies, and I plan to emphasize > things like locality, > > matrix, associations, literature, and EDS/SEM, - > stuff I actually use all > > the time, not stuff like streak and acid testing > that all the pocketbooks > > suggest but nobody really ever uses. > > > > If any of the hardcore collectors out there have > some tips or tricks to > > share, it would be most appreciated. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > > The minerals of Ontario: > http://www.ontariominerals.com > > Minerals through the microscope: > http://www.micromounts.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Fri Sep 24 11:58:29 2004 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Fri Sep 24 11:58:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? In-Reply-To: <1e.341f1ddc.2e85bf1e@aol.com> Message-ID: <20040924185829.10802.qmail@web51010.mail.yahoo.com> In mid-1982 (not 1983) pennies went from solid copper to a clad composition. This affected the hardness, and also the weight (also the resistance to corrosion- look at how ugly recent pennies get, versus the older ones) Jim Daly Sauktown Sales www.sauktown.com --- Lapadary@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/24/04 7:45:34 AM Pacific > Daylight Time, > william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu writes: > > , a copper penny (pre > 1983), > ---------------------------------- > What happened to the penny that changed it? I'm not > a coin collector and > don't keep up with those things. > > Grant > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From xossfs at yahoo.com Fri Sep 24 13:28:13 2004 From: xossfs at yahoo.com (Stephen Stover) Date: Fri Sep 24 13:28:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? In-Reply-To: <20040924185829.10802.qmail@web51010.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040924202813.89802.qmail@web20025.mail.yahoo.com> Tell me about it. I metal detect down here on the gulf coast and those zince pennies can get corroded holes all the way through in just a few years dwon here. --- Jim Daly wrote: > In mid-1982 (not 1983) pennies went from solid > copper > to a clad composition. This affected the hardness, > and > also the weight (also the resistance to corrosion- > look at how ugly recent pennies get, versus the > older > ones) > Jim Daly > Sauktown Sales > www.sauktown.com > --- Lapadary@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 9/24/04 7:45:34 AM Pacific > > Daylight Time, > > william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu writes: > > > > , a copper penny (pre > > 1983), > > ---------------------------------- > > What happened to the penny that changed it? I'm > not > > a coin collector and > > don't keep up with those things. > > > > Grant > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > ===== Stephen F. Stover PH (281) 829-1102 xossfs@yahoo.com Wanting to hunt rocks and play games every day! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Fri Sep 24 15:44:16 2004 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Fri Sep 24 15:44:19 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Having an education in analytical chemistry I like the process of trying to identify a mineral. I use a sort of system to identify minerals. First I just look at the specimen and try to figure out what it can be based on matrix, association, locality, shape, color, cleavage etc. Next thing is to use non-destructive methods, like testing for hardness, fluorescence, radio activity, magnetism, maybe conductivity, measuring crystallographic angles etc. My final method would be 'chemical tests'. I rarely use tests for whole mineral, like 'it should melt in a candle flame' because these tests are not very specific. Mostly I got a pretty good idea what mineral it is, and chemical testing is only used to discriminate between the few final options. Therefore I use mainly tests on elements. This includes borax and phosphate pearl tests, wet chemical droptests and the good old (my favorite) blowpipe tests. I have THE book about chemical mineral testing by Plattner and Kolbeck, the inventors of the method. Many of the tests require lots of practice, but that is fun by itself. It is amazing how much is possible with so few chemicals and a tiny bit of sample and good planning of your experiments. I agree that seeing a lot of minerals gives you valuable experience. But there are countless events that I had to perform some tests to be sure. cheers, Maurice From kahako at aloha.net Fri Sep 24 17:31:02 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Sep 24 17:03:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 4, Issue 15 In-Reply-To: <014201c4a08d$16792ed0$ebe2a5d8@Rock5> References: <200409160011.i8G0BvtW016874@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <014201c4a08d$16792ed0$ebe2a5d8@Rock5> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040924142322.027dd7f0@mail.aloha.net> I don't know whether this is "Rock Currier's" mistake or if Aaron needs to know this, but I got an EXTREMELY long message along with the one that begins below....it was (I believe) an entire "digest" volume or issue. Took quite a while to highlight and delete before returning response. Aloha, Kitty At 12:15 AM 9/22/2004, you wrote: >Concerning Utah Ice and other gypsum deposits. > >I read with interest the remarks and the news paper accounts about our good >public servants trying to protect the public from the evil mineral From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Sep 24 17:40:52 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Sep 24 17:38:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? References: <008101c4a23f$28a926b0$6401a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <4154BDEC.FA5@Tomaszewski.net> Identifying an unknown mineral is the process of eliminating the thousands of possible choices until only one remains. Experience with lots of minerals is probably the greatest single factor. If you have seen a thousand specimens of leaverite it is a lot easier to recognize it when you see it again than if you have only seen a couple specimens of leaverite. But for those unusual specimens, or for the collector who is less experienced, there are several approaches that work. But all the methods share asking questions about the unknown mineral, and using the answers to eliminate some of the possibilities. The location where the specimen was found is one of the fastest ways to get down to a short list of possible minerals. If you know something about the geology of where a mineral was formed you can eliminate a lot of minerals that don't form in that type of environment. Association is closely related to location. If you know some of the minerals found at a location, you can know that other minerals are often associated with those types to help make your short list of possibilities. Then you need to start asking questions about attributes like hardness, crystal shape, habit, streak, cleavage, luster, magnetism, fluorescence, fusability, density, fracture, color, physics, and chemistry. Some questions will get you there faster than others. Some are more destructive than others. Some require specialized equipment or chemicals. The Audubon Field Guide generally starts with color, then hardness, then streak, and then crystal form to get down to a single mineral. The Peterson Field Guide tends to assume you have made some progress from general attributes and gives specific tests that distinguish the mineral from others like it. The tests tend to approach the chemistry, and are often destructive to a small sample. Personally I tend to start down the Audubon path until I've less than a handful of choices, and then switch to the Peterson approach. A lens, streak plate, and hardness kit plus a couple field guides work most of the time. Experience, location, and association usually let me take a few shortcuts because they often suggest some likely possibilities I can quickly check without working thru all the tests. MinDat is your friend. If you know a location you can quickly find most of the minerals available from that place. If you know one mineral in a specimen you can quickly find other minerals it is commonly associated with. If you have a possible ID you can usually find several photographs of it from different locations, plus a lot of useful information about the mineral itself. Google is your friend. If you know a location you can usually find details of the geology, expected minerals, and occasionally pictures of specimens from the area. Then you get into the wierd, rare stuff, and your screening process comes up with no answer, or too many answers. Then its time for the lab, EDS, SEM, X-rays, etc. Labs cost money, but its good to know what is available should you need it. Labs usually ask for the location, and your tentative identification, so it still pays to do your homework with the traditional tests first. Kreigh Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: > > In a brief moment of weakness at the last club exec meeting I volunteered to > give a talk on how to ID minerals. > > It's aimed at the newbies, and I plan to emphasize things like locality, > matrix, associations, literature, and EDS/SEM, - stuff I actually use all > the time, not stuff like streak and acid testing that all the pocketbooks > suggest but nobody really ever uses. > > If any of the hardcore collectors out there have some tips or tricks to > share, it would be most appreciated. > > Cheers, From afox at drizzle.com Fri Sep 24 17:44:09 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Fri Sep 24 17:44:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 4, Issue 15 In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20040924142322.027dd7f0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: Actually, I did know about it. It was held back in the moderation queue, and I was deleting the excess stuff at the end of the message. I accidentally forwarded the old version, which had a digest attached, instead of the new version. My bad. Sorry! For reference, though, it's really a good idea if your a digest subscriber to JUST send back the text you are replying to. Rockhounds is set to refuse emails larger than 40k, which many of the digests are. FYI: Magma is moving at Mt. St. Helens this week. Check out the webicorders: http://www.pnsn.org/WEBICORDER/GREEN/SEP_EHZ_UW.2004092412.html Aaron Fox Rockhounds Admin > I don't know whether this is "Rock Currier's" mistake or if Aaron needs to > know this, but I got an EXTREMELY long message along with the one that > begins below....it was (I believe) an entire "digest" volume or > issue. Took quite a while to highlight and delete before returning response. > > Aloha, Kitty > > > At 12:15 AM 9/22/2004, you wrote: > >Concerning Utah Ice and other gypsum deposits. > > > >I read with interest the remarks and the news paper accounts about our good > >public servants trying to protect the public from the evil mineral > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From cjkuo at verizon.net Fri Sep 24 18:01:43 2004 From: cjkuo at verizon.net (Jimmy Kuo) Date: Fri Sep 24 18:02:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? References: <008101c4a23f$28a926b0$6401a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <018801c4a29b$3c594350$0b02a8c0@LOSJKUOLT2> As an amateur, what I do is to study up on the locality and what else has been found there. Find the basic atomic constituents of the surrounding area. If you're in the Arizona copper region, chances are what you found is the "copper-something" and not the "boron-something." Things like that. But really, what I'm doing is determining a direction of research. There is just so much stuff under the heading of "Rockhounding" that sometimes, you just don't know what to read. And having a goal gives me a direction as to where to research. A final determination is also a nice result. But there's also joy in the chase itself. Jimmy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Jokela Jr." To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 7:02 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? > In a brief moment of weakness at the last club exec meeting I volunteered to > give a talk on how to ID minerals. > > It's aimed at the newbies, and I plan to emphasize things like locality, > matrix, associations, literature, and EDS/SEM, - stuff I actually use all > the time, not stuff like streak and acid testing that all the pocketbooks > suggest but nobody really ever uses. > > If any of the hardcore collectors out there have some tips or tricks to > share, it would be most appreciated. > > Cheers, > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Fri Sep 24 20:07:39 2004 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Fri Sep 24 20:06:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for Wes Lingerfeld (again) In-Reply-To: <000001c4a251$895de7e0$a6e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <0F43E2D5-0EA0-11D9-9511-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> > Hi everyone, Hi Wes if you're reading this, A friend of mine is beginning the quest for a second-hand faceting machine; Wes Lingerfeld has or had such - and I no longer have his email address... Can anyone help put me in touch with Wes? Cheers & thanks Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Sep 24 20:18:31 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Sep 24 20:15:31 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] pyrite disease References: <006201c49c48$6de1a7e0$6601a8c0@bryan> Message-ID: <4154E2C9.24F7@Tomaszewski.net> Pete Richards wrote: > > Some of you who have followed this thread and are chemically astute may want to look at this article that I stumbled upon today at work. It is written in the context of trying to reduce effects of acid mine drainage, but it might have a hint for us as well. The silicate part is largely irrelevant to our issues. > > D.M. Kargbo, G. Atallah, and S. Chatterjee (2004) Inhibitation of pyrite oxidation by a phospholipid in the presence of silicate. Environmental Science and Technology 38: 3483-3441. > > Regards, > Pete Pete, It is available online at http://www.temple.edu/eer/pyrite.pdf Kreigh From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Fri Sep 24 21:01:31 2004 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Fri Sep 24 21:01:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? References: <008101c4a23f$28a926b0$6401a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <004001c4a2b4$57f05e00$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I want to reiterate what others have indicated - locality information is extremely important. For instance, Tim's area has minerals associated with Niagaran (Silurian) limestone and dolostone. Since the number of common minerals is small and uncommon minerals is even smaller, basic observations about color, crystal form, and luster should enable newbies to identify calcite, celestine, dolomite, fluorite, pyrite, quartz, and sphalerite. Once they master those minerals, then you can introduce Bancroft and St. Hillaire minerals. There are people that might be intimidated or even overwhelmed by the identification process. Start simple to encourage them that, yes, they too can identify minerals. If you throw everything at them, use will lose their interest and their brain will shut you out. I invited a mineralogy professor speak at our local club 10 or 15 years ago. His topic was the fundamentals of minerals. I thought the program was simple and comprehensive, but I heard many members - including mineral collectors - say he went over their heads after he said "I am glad to be here tonight!" Know your audience, that should help you create your program outline / script. Having seen some of your collection Tim, if you aren't talking to more than 25 people, bring average quality samples so that the audience can use your identification rubric to match a specimen you hand out. Also give them a blank label so at the end of the program, you can see if they identified the mineral correctly. If you get mostly correctly ID'ed specimens, your program worked. If not, it needs more work because they didn't "get it!" Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Jokela Jr." To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 10:02 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? > In a brief moment of weakness at the last club exec meeting I volunteered > to > give a talk on how to ID minerals. > > It's aimed at the newbies, and I plan to emphasize things like locality, > matrix, associations, literature, and EDS/SEM, - stuff I actually use all > the time, not stuff like streak and acid testing that all the pocketbooks > suggest but nobody really ever uses. > > If any of the hardcore collectors out there have some tips or tricks to > share, it would be most appreciated. > > Cheers, > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Fri Sep 24 23:10:44 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Fri Sep 24 23:04:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ... Mt. St. Helens References: Message-ID: <005401c4a2c6$66db7820$39a5490c@pete> Aaron, thanks for mentioning the Mt. St. Helens seismic website. As a "public communications specialist" for the USGS I in theory am supposed to know about "everything", but the fact is, I'd never looked at this website, nor heard of the Pacific Northwest Seismic Network, nor even heard of a "webicorder". [My excuse, I'm not a seismologist, and I don't work in the Pacific Northwest; it's "out of our region".] But the site is neat, and yes, lots of little earthquakes going on! I especially like the chart showing the Time vs. Depth plot of Mt. St. Helens earthquakes for the last decade (http://www.pnsn.org/HELENS/mshfigs.html); it really shows when (and where) "something was going on underground". Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Fox" > > FYI: Magma is moving at Mt. St. Helens this week. Check out the > webicorders: > http://www.pnsn.org/WEBICORDER/GREEN/SEP_EHZ_UW.2004092412.html > > Aaron Fox > Rockhounds Admin > > > I don't know whether this is "Rock Currier's" mistake or if Aaron needs to > > know this, but I got an EXTREMELY long message along with the one that > > begins below....it was (I believe) an entire "digest" volume or > > issue. Took quite a while to highlight and delete before returning response. > > > > Aloha, Kitty > > > > > > At 12:15 AM 9/22/2004, you wrote: > > >Concerning Utah Ice and other gypsum deposits. > > > > > >I read with interest the remarks and the news paper accounts about our good > > >public servants trying to protect the public from the evil mineral > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > -- > afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox > FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your > computer. Press any key to reboot > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Fri Sep 24 23:18:00 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Fri Sep 24 23:11:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: AD: Rocks & Minerals Benefit Auction Message-ID: <005e01c4a2c7$69860940$39a5490c@pete> Fellow rockhounds in the group, FYI, here's info on John Veevaert's online auction to benefit Rocks & Minerals magazine, a follow-up to the Denver Show; it ends 9/27. --- Pete Modreski ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Veevaert" To: Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 5:11 PM Subject: Rocks & Minerals Benefit Auction Greetings: The Denver Show is over but there is still one event left to complete that was started at the Show. That is the bi-annual auction to benefit the oldest periodical in our hobby - Rocks & Minerals. I picked up 18 specimens before leaving Denver from Marie and Terry Huizing and have now posted them for your consideration. 95% of the proceeds from the auction will go to the color fund which helps to offset the high cost of color printing. A lot of dealers graciously donated specimens to this cause. To see what is available for the online event visit: http://www.mineral-auctions.com On behalf of Marie Huizing, Editor of Rocks & Minerals, Thank you. John Veevaert Trinity Mineral Co From afox at drizzle.com Fri Sep 24 23:49:58 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Fri Sep 24 23:50:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ... Mt. St. Helens In-Reply-To: <005401c4a2c6$66db7820$39a5490c@pete> Message-ID: Well, considering my graduate thesis topic is the spatial and temporal patterning of earthquakes in the Pacific NW, I'd be ashamed if I hadn't have noticed a quake swarm in my backyard (I'm back in Seattle, now, at least for the next 6 months) ... :-) If you visit the website, take a sec to look at the full spectrum displays. Unlike the classic 'chart recorder' graphic (the wiggles I linked to), the full spectrum charts represent radiated energy across a rather wide spectral range. Makes it easier to distinguish eq signals from noise, and gives a bit more information (i.e. long-period teleseisms versus nearby shorter-period surface events) It's fun to look at the Cascadia earthquake patterns over time. They definately follow NW-SE trending crustal structures that just happen to have volcanoes in all the right places.... Next project my roommate and I plan on tackling (once the thesis is finished, of course), is a homemade seismograph. There was a neat Scientific American article about building two and three-component units out of the accelerometer chips removed from surplus auto airbags. Mmm, an excuse to prowl around a junkyard.... > Aaron, thanks for mentioning the Mt. St. Helens seismic website. As a > "public communications specialist" for the USGS I in theory am supposed to > know about "everything", but the fact is, I'd never looked at this website, > nor heard of the Pacific Northwest Seismic Network, nor even heard of a > "webicorder". [My excuse, I'm not a seismologist, and I don't work in the > Pacific Northwest; it's "out of our region".] But the site is neat, and > yes, lots of little earthquakes going on! I especially like the chart > showing the Time vs. Depth plot of Mt. St. Helens earthquakes for the last > decade > (http://www.pnsn.org/HELENS/mshfigs.html); it really shows when (and where) > "something was going on underground". > Pete > -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sat Sep 25 04:06:12 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sat Sep 25 04:06:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] =?iso-8859-1?q?La_R=E9union_=3A_recent_eruptions?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000301c4a2ef$ae550f30$0100a8c0@maxdata> Hi all, We are just back from our holidays on the island of "La R?union". Since May there have been many volcanic eruptions, and the last one dates from september 9 (at that moment we were already on the island). We visited the volcano and the lava flows a few days later. What stroke me in the first place is the ressemblance with the Pu'u O'o volcano on the Big Island of Hawaii. The very basic lava on La R?union Island is also very fluid, and forms exactly the same types of rope-like solidification. The landscape is almost identical with the southern slope of the Pu'u O'o, and occasionally (like this year e.g.) lavaflows reach the sea with the production of dangerous clouds of steam containing hydrochloric acid (and IMHO not, as mentioned on local warning signs "sulphuric acid vapours"). The hydrochloric acid vapours are generated by the action of very hot lava (around 1200?C) with a mixture of steam and sodiumchloride (from the seawater). Also here the lava flew over the main road along the coast. If I wouldn't have known better, I would have believed that I had taken the wrong plane... BTW La R?union Island is situated a few 100 km east from Madagascar (Malagasy), and about 100 km SE of Mauritius. We visited the lavaflows along the coast on foot a few days after their solidification, when it was already possible to walk over them (although I must admit that we found more than one burned shoe sole (I have a nice photo of one of them). I collected some lava pieces that were still so hot that I couldn't hold them in my hands. As it rains nearly always on the higher parts of the slopes, it was very easy to see where the lava was still hot by the steam clouds generated. In total about 12 hectares (120 000 m?) of new land were generated since may 2004. The connection between the towns on the east-coast is interrupted for all traffic, but since last week shuttle buses travel to near the lava flow at each side, so that the inhabitants of Sainte-Rose can go visit their friends in Saint-Philippe by taking the shuttle bus, going on foot over the lavaflow and continue their journey by bus at the other side. All traffic has to make a detour through the plateau of La Plaine des Cafres, La Plaine des Palmistes and Saint-Benoit (in total something like 100 km). Starting from La Plaine des Cafres, where we lodged for some days, it is possible to visit the main volcano cone, the "Piton des la Fournaise" (2630 m above sea level). By car you can drive up to the outer caldeira, where you have a magnificent view on the "Plaine des Sables" ("Plain of Sands"), a large flat surface with different shades of yellow, gray and brown. In fact there is no sand, but granulated pieces of lava. When we arrived at the "Passe de Bellecombe" the clouds had extended so far to reduce the view to 10 or 15 m, so we doubted a long time wether we would go to the Piton the La Fournaise or not. After all, we decided to go, as the weather forecasts were even worse for the next few days. First you have to descend about 600 rocky "stairs", and then we walked over the solidified lava for about 3 km, passing the Formica Leo Crater inside the caldeira. After about one hour of easy walking over the lava the steep climb to the crater summit begins, and that part, which takes about 2 hours, is really exhausting. Untill then the weather conditions were not as bad as we had expected, since the cloud deck regularly opened to give us a short view (seconds only !!) of the volcanic landscape around us. Sometimes all of a sudden we saw a large crater where we didn't expect one. The weather changes completely in seconds from bright sunshine to heavy rain with very bad visibility, temperatures varying in minutes from 6?C (!!!) to more than 20?C. We arrived at the Crat?re Bory, with an acceptable visibility (at least, we had a good view inside the crater). Then we wanted to go on foot around the largest crater rim, the "Crat?re Dolomieu" (which in fact was forbidden temporarily because the active part of the eruptions was on the slopes on the east side, but we had enough information to know that the walk around the main crater was absolutely safe). Unfortunately, when we reached the SE part of the rim, we had to return due to weather conditions : temperature 6?C, wind speeds up to 80-100 km/h, heavy cold rain (upwards !!) and a visibility of barely 10 m. This was just dangerous. As we had difficulty to keep standing we drew back to the Bory crater and descended back to the caldeira floor via the northern side of the main crater. During a short time we were able to look into the crater. The walking tracks are VERY clearly marked with white dots every 5 m or so, which is absolutely necessary, because with the bad visibility you have there most of the time, you would very easily get lost. Furthermore, they have not only also a "green sand beach", but dozens of them (on the east coast, region of Piton Sainte-rose). Some side information : l'?le de la R?union is French territory, and in contrast with e.g. Guadeloupe and Martinique in the Carraibian not much of the original culture and atmosphere still exists : it is just another French department where people are somewhat more colored that in France. The climate is mediterranean in the west and south, subtropical in the east and north. The language spoken is French (but oh, what a dialect sometimes !), currency is the euro. The dry season is supposed to last from april to the end of october, but I can assure you that what they call a "dry season" is in fact to our standards also more than wet ! Rainfall varies from 2000 mm per year in the west to more than 8000 mm in the east. You can fly to R?union from several French airports, from Milan Malpenza, from Johannesburg and from various places in Madagascar and also from Mauritius. The roads are extremely winding and steap, but in splendid shape. There are quite some hotels at the west coast, very few at the east coast (which is in fact the most beautiful). It is not an expensive destination, as most tourists are people who prefer physical efforts rather than sun tanning on the beach. Conclusion, a splendid destination for all interested in vulcanology, on condition that you are not water-soluble... If anyone needs information on La R?union, I will be glad to provide it. Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 25 07:07:20 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sat Sep 25 07:01:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ... Mt. St. Helens References: Message-ID: <001801c4a308$fa912aa0$71a4490c@pete> Aaron, How do you get to the "full spectrum displays"? I only see the short-period display that you linked to, and the "School-Net Strong-Motion" displays. I tried "Experimental Spectrograms", but I don't think that's it ther. ---Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Fox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 12:49 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ... Mt. St. Helens > If you visit the website, take a sec to look at the full spectrum > displays. Unlike the classic 'chart recorder' graphic (the wiggles I > linked to), the full spectrum charts represent radiated energy across a > rather wide spectral range. Makes it easier to distinguish eq signals > from noise, and gives a bit more information (i.e. long-period teleseisms > versus nearby shorter-period surface events) > http://www.pnsn.org/WEBICORDER/GREEN/SEP_EHZ_UW.2004092412.html From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 25 07:21:47 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sat Sep 25 07:15:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ... Mt. St. Helens References: Message-ID: <002301c4a30a$fe6be1e0$71a4490c@pete> Aaron, P.S., I think I found them now, thanx. You get there from the "Sep. 2004 Mt. St. Helens Swarm" page, which I also hadn't found until now, because you only get to THERE from the "Archive of Interesting Records" page, which I also hadn't explored yet. I think I know where it all is now! Pete From afox at drizzle.com Sat Sep 25 07:28:36 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Sat Sep 25 07:28:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ... Mt. St. Helens In-Reply-To: <001801c4a308$fa912aa0$71a4490c@pete> Message-ID: Nope, the 'Experimental Spectrograms' were what I was referring to. I guess that 'full spectrum' is a little bit of an exaggeration, esp. since the USGS display only goes from 0-10 Hz. Since the number and type of seismometers the USGS uses in the Northwest is pretty varied, the display is set to show the 'most useful' frequency windows. The windows you use, however, are dependent on the type of instrument and the information you are trying to capture. Most of the newer seismometers deployed are solid-state units with distinct limiations. Long-period seismometers, which are best used at detecting the surface waves thrown out by distant earthquakes and measuring earth tides. Typical ranges are 1 - 20 second periods Short period seismometers are better at dectecting small, localized movements, such as those in a plug dome in the crater of Mt. St. Helens. Short period units optimized for microseismicity get REALLY small (10-30 Hz), but generally run in the 1 - 10 Hz range. Most of the older analog units were set up largely to measure first arrivals to aid in locating earthquake hypocenters. As such, they needed as wide a frequency range as possible, so as to draw in the largest number of signals. 1 - 10 Hz was pretty common. http://www.pnsn.org/WEBICORDER/SGRAM/ http://quake.usgs.gov/recent/spectrograms/ The processing they use, however, is fairly simple to reproduce in programs such as MATLAB, using a larger window of frequencies. In reality, it's a heck of a lot like the 'waterfall' sonar displays the Navy uses. Sorry, just a little bit of a distraction from rockhounding. My bad. a. > Aaron, > How do you get to the "full spectrum displays"? I only see the short-period > display that you linked to, and the "School-Net Strong-Motion" displays. I > tried "Experimental Spectrograms", but I don't think that's it > ther. ---Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aaron Fox" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 12:49 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ... Mt. St. Helens > > If you visit the website, take a sec to look at the full spectrum > > displays. Unlike the classic 'chart recorder' graphic (the wiggles I > > linked to), the full spectrum charts represent radiated energy across a > > rather wide spectral range. Makes it easier to distinguish eq signals > > from noise, and gives a bit more information (i.e. long-period teleseisms > > versus nearby shorter-period surface events) > > http://www.pnsn.org/WEBICORDER/GREEN/SEP_EHZ_UW.2004092412.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From phantomR at peoplepc.com Sat Sep 25 12:43:34 2004 From: phantomR at peoplepc.com (terry) Date: Sat Sep 25 12:37:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] crystal point in Williamsport,Pa Message-ID: <003101c4a337$f2166820$289c8141@r2t2g1> Please tell me how your trip to Crystal Point Diamond mine was. I live in that area and have not talked to anyone about it. Should we go etc? Thank You Terry --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sat Sep 25 12:40:29 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sat Sep 25 12:41:00 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001101c4a337$83ede030$0100a8c0@maxdata> I was off list during some weeks, so I hope that in this thread I'm on topic... Some thoughts from a pure analytical inorganic chemist : 1) It is indeed wonderful (I consider it more as "magic") what you can learn from microchemical experiments. It is also a lot of fun to do it. On the other hand, I almost never do it, because 1?/ I don't have the time (or rather patience), and 2?/ see further thoughts below... 2) The most important thing is to get as much data as you can about the locality and the minerals that have been discovered and described from that place. The chance of finding a mineral that has not yet been described from the place is very low, so in perhaps 99 % of the cases the name of the mineral you found is already listed somewhere. On the other hand, be careful in using information from the Internet. Sometimes what seems to be a certainty is only an educated guess. So make a list of all species reported from the locality, and select which candidates are possible based on descriptive properties. The determination of a mineral of which you don't know the locality is a thousand times more difficult (and in most cases not worth the effort). This first step leaves you with a maximum of some tens (or in rare cases, such as Tsumeb, Broken Hill etc. 100 or so) possibilities. That's already a reduction from about 4000 to 10-100... 3) From the list you made up you can certainly scrap 80 % of the names, just based on the appearance : if your mineral is green, you know that it is no azurite. Also look carefully for recognisable crystal faces, and compare them with examples found in the literature. If the minerals remaining on the list differ enough in chemical composition, you can go testing elements present. BUT in many cases the suitable chemical reaction is not the problem, but the sampling. In the case of secondary copper minerals e.g. in the Inntal (e.g. Schwaz, Tirol, Austria) dozens of different species occur that are greenish, and they are all intergrown. Even using an analytical electron microscope or X-ray diffractometer will not bring you the solution without much effort sometimes. 4) This elimination-method is only statistical : sometimes you will have found a mineral that nobody else described already from that place, or even... who knows... a new species ! In such a case mostly a very specialised laboratory will be able to help you. 5) Tests like hardness, density, streak color etc. are nice for quite big and pure crystals or aggregates, but almost useless for micro-crystals or finely grained aggregates, unless, again with much effort. 6) Even sophisticated instrumental methods have their inconveniences : a microprobe gives you interesting information about most elements, but e.g. hydrogen and beryllium (and boron with difficulty) are not detectable. Important elements, such as C, O and N are detectable, but their quantification is very difficult. So a microprobe gives you in a first instance just a rough idea about the rough concentration of most elements, but not all. It's like an iteration process : once you have a rough idea, you can improve the method (in casu standardisation procedure) for a real quantitative analysis. 7) X-ray diffractometry analysis is as good as the sample... mixtures can only be identified with much effort. Difficult cases : many silicates (preferential orientation of e.g. mica's, pyroxenes and amphiboles), secondary copper minerals (mixtures), borates (many species present due to hydration and dehydration) etc. 8) Petrographic microscopy is certainly a helpful tool, but my competence on that field is very low. So no comment. 9) Newer but very promising is Raman spectroscopy. Very nice results have been obtained during the last few years (e.g. by Theo Kloprogge, Dutch, but now living in Australia). Conclusion 1 : there is no universal method for mineral identification, unfortunately. Always use the simplest method available first : 1) literature study and elimination method based on existing knowledge - 2) (micro)-physical tests (hardness, density, radio-activity, fluorescence, crystal faces present...) - 3) (micro)-chemical tests (CO2-detection with HCl...) - 4) sophisticated methods, like microprobe, X-ray diffraction, petrography and Raman spectroscopy. Conclusion 2 : the more you are experienced (and professional), the more you will doubt about your analytical methodology. I bet I have more cases that I consider as "hopeless" than many no-professionals. Concerning the "identification" of minerals I will launch another related topic that bothers me already for a long time... see a next message. This one is already more than long enough ! P.S. After I wrote this message, I saw that Kreigh is almost on exactly the same path... ergo two versions of the same story... Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ From LarryRush at worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 25 12:46:32 2004 From: LarryRush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sat Sep 25 12:49:54 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral/Geology books References: <000601c49455$6ca68580$6700a8c0@Isabella> Message-ID: <000a01c4a338$7c9a4e80$338f4c0c@fekib> Well, my wife has convinced (read "nagged") me to start to dispose of some 45 years worth of mineral and geology related books, magazines, texts, circulars, advertisements, etc. ad nauseum. I have started to go through the piles and have reduced them somewhat. Some are in the trash, some to friends, and some are slowly making their way to my web site to sell. I did place the 2 Dana's Systems via the list (thank you, Kreigh and Ronnie!), but have loads more stuff, including a complete set of MRs. The Rocks and Minerals have mostly gone to friends, and I can't yet find the Mineral Digests. I have yet to post the "coffee-table" type picture books. I have lots of USGS bulletins, and various state circulars, many out of print. No Lapidary Journals. If anyone likes this kind of stuff (many of the texts are out-of-date, but not yet antiques, unlike me!), check my site occasionally, as I will have to keep at this and post them at times. Regards................Larry Rush www.connroxminerals.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kadok at infowest.com Sat Sep 25 14:09:06 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sat Sep 25 14:09:01 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? In-Reply-To: <20040924185829.10802.qmail@web51010.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040925210859.30E6BEAB352@delivery.infowest.com> Also, during WWII, pennies were ugly silvery-looking zinc(?) things with, as I understand it, no copper at all. All copper went to the war effort, of course. Margaret ____ In mid-1982 (not 1983) pennies went from solid copper to a clad composition. This affected the hardness, and also the weight (also the resistance to corrosion- look at how ugly recent pennies get, versus the older ones) Jim Daly Sauktown Sales www.sauktown.com --- Lapadary@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/24/04 7:45:34 AM Pacific > Daylight Time, > william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu writes: > > , a copper penny (pre > 1983), > ---------------------------------- > What happened to the penny that changed it? I'm not > a coin collector and > don't keep up with those things. > > Grant > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From bombastus at worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 25 14:40:22 2004 From: bombastus at worldnet.att.net (Homer Eshbaugh) Date: Sat Sep 25 14:40:18 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? References: <20040925210859.30E6BEAB352@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: <001501c4a348$43601680$6998490c@HHEPC> As I understand it, the WW II pennies were made from steel. Homer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margaret Malm" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 4:09 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? > > Also, during WWII, pennies were ugly silvery-looking zinc(?) things with, > as > I understand it, no copper at all. All copper went to the war effort, of > course. > > Margaret > ____ > In mid-1982 (not 1983) pennies went from solid copper > to a clad composition. This affected the hardness, and > also the weight (also the resistance to corrosion- > look at how ugly recent pennies get, versus the older > ones) > Jim Daly > Sauktown Sales > www.sauktown.com > --- Lapadary@aol.com wrote: > >> In a message dated 9/24/04 7:45:34 AM Pacific >> Daylight Time, >> william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu writes: >> >> , a copper penny (pre >> 1983), >> ---------------------------------- >> What happened to the penny that changed it? I'm not >> a coin collector and >> don't keep up with those things. >> >> Grant >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sat Sep 25 14:59:15 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sat Sep 25 14:59:44 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral names and valid mineral species In-Reply-To: <001101c4a337$83ede030$0100a8c0@maxdata> Message-ID: <001601c4a34a$e6955430$0100a8c0@maxdata> The thread on identification methods of minerals is strongly related to the definition of mineral species. It is e.g. impossible to distinguish forsterite (Mg2SiO4) from fayalite (Fe2SiO4) by simple means, as most samples have an intermediate composition and are called "olivine" (Mg,Fe)2SiO4 which is not a recognised and valid species name. An artificial barrier was set halfway : material with Mg>Fe is considered as forsterite, material with Fe>Mg is fayalite. In theory this sounds logical, but in practice it means that an analysis is needed to be able to put a label on the specimen, unless you know from the litterature that the composition is known and constant for the locality. I can live with that, but since a few years very eminent scientists have found it necessary to make the situation unnecessary complex. The so-called Levinson modifier, as in cerianite-(Ce), is pleonastic and the extra information is redundant. As you know, all rare earth elements have nearly the same chemical properties, and wether there is somewhat more Ce, La or even Nd, makes nearly no difference for the structure, the cell dimensions etc., and the transition from one species to another is in principle continuous. You can't even speak of end members in that case. A striking example of nomenclature that IMHO is at least confusing is cerite. Nowadays we have to speak about cerite-(Ce) and cerite-(La). The latter looks even like a contradiction in terms. For the individual collector (and even for many museum curators) it is impossible now to keep in line with the nomenclature rules, as every single specimen should be analysed very thoroughly to be able to put the right label on it. An example : we think that we identified a species when we know that it's chabazite... but that is not a species name anymore : it's either chabazite-Ca, or chabazite-K, or chabazite-Na or chabazite-Sr. If you realise that e.g. chabazite-K also contains Na and Ca, that the 4 species are not distinct, and that they are all trigonal with nearly identical properties you will understand that defining for a specimen what it's real name should be is a nearly impossible task, even when sophisticated instruments are available. And what is the advantage of that complicated nomenclature ? Another nice case is jahnsite-(CaMnFe), jahnsite-(CaMnMg) and jahnsite-(CaMnMn). These are no mineral names anymore ; at the end we will speak in terms of complete chemical formulas. The reason why a name was invented for each species was that it had to be more easy to remember than a formula. Another example of a bad name (my opinion) : ferrotitanowodginite FeTiTa2O8. If things were logic wodginite, MnSnTa2O8 should be renamed to manganostannowodginite. Nearly ridiculous is sodic-ferri-clinoferroholmquistite. No, I'm not joking. The name is in the 2004 glossary. This is pure nonsense. Some nomenclature people try to put so much information in a name, that it is no name anymore, but a formula-like thing that we can't use in daily life. I am in favour for a return to simple names, where compositional changes are considered as varieties rather than as species, as long as the symmetry doesn't change. What is the opinion of other list members ? Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Sep 25 20:26:43 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Sep 25 20:20:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral names and valid mineral species References: <001601c4a34a$e6955430$0100a8c0@maxdata> Message-ID: <41563571.43ED@Tomaszewski.net> Rik, The 'lumpers' and 'splitters' have been at it for ages, and the splitters seem to have been winning recently. Unfortunately, this has caused most amateur collectors (and professionals, and museums) hardships in labeling their collections. Part of the reason behind this is based in the academic need to publish; splitting makes a fertile field for a research topic when you don't have something that is actually original. Part of the reason is also that splitting allows more individuals their 15 minutes of fame from 'discovering' new minerals. Part of the reason is that the pendulum happens to be swinging that way at this point in history. I expect it will eventually swing too far and return to lumping again before too long. This is not the first cycle if you are a student of history. I am first a systematic collector. My primary collection is organized by chemistry. I am slowly working towards one specimen of every (recognized) mineral; I also include 'commonly accepted' minerals that are not 'recognized', e.g., Turgite. My secondary collection is split between duplicates from my primary collection (mostly alternate locations), ores (with a personal favor towards gypsum {the mineral with a 120 year history of mining in my home town}, and metal ores) from multiple locations, rocks (granite, diorite, sandstone, quartzite, schist, etc.) from my interest in geology, and fossils (I pick them up when I come across them, but don't go looking for them). As you observed, some splitting makes sense, such as in forsterite and fayalite (but mostly for research purposes), but frankly my specimens are probably all going to be labeled olivine unless a particular locality is shown to be consistently one or the other. I have problems with the concept that every specimen _must_ be submitted to a lab (for {expensive} research) before it can properly be labeled. Most splitting, as in the 'Levinson modifier' that is becomming all too common, is going too far. Chemical formulas have their place. But names and words are invented to give unique identification to a thing or idea (even though words often acquire multiple meanings). If the 'modifier' concept must be retained, then the affected minerals need to acquire new, unique, names instead of a contrived formula appendage. Lumping formulas and names is inconsistent and should not be retained. I agree with you that returning to the tradition of varietial names makes much more sense, especially when no physical form changes occur as you detailed. Quartz var. (Amethyst, Citrine, Smoky/Smokey, Herkimer Diamond, etc.), or Gypsum var. (Selenite, Satin Spar, Alabaster, Pencil, etc.), makes much more sense than jahnsite-(CaMnMg) to just about everyone except academics (including, it appears, the IMA). BTW, you can find the IMA website at http://www.geo.vu.nl/users/ima-cnmmn/ I offer the Mica 'family' as another example; I understand there are eight varieties that can be identified without a lab (and less that are 'commonly accepted'), but there are more than 32 that are 'recognized' -- if you want to spend money on lab studies; the differences have absolutely no significance to anyone except academics. Does the amateur collecting community need to start a global email campaign to Ernest A. J. Burke (current IMA Chairman, who I have copied on my reply) to try to swing the pendulum back towards a more sensible balance between lumping and splitting? Kreigh Rik Dillen wrote: > > The thread on identification methods of minerals is strongly related to the definition of mineral species. > > It is e.g. impossible to distinguish forsterite (Mg2SiO4) from fayalite (Fe2SiO4) by simple means, as most samples have an > intermediate composition and are called "olivine" (Mg,Fe)2SiO4 which is not a recognised and valid species name. An artificial > barrier was set halfway : material with Mg>Fe is considered as forsterite, material with Fe>Mg is fayalite. In theory this sounds > logical, but in practice it means that an analysis is needed to be able to put a label on the specimen, unless you know from the > litterature that the composition is known and constant for the locality. > > I can live with that, but since a few years very eminent scientists have found it necessary to make the situation unnecessary > complex. > The so-called Levinson modifier, as in cerianite-(Ce), is pleonastic and the extra information is redundant. > As you know, all rare earth elements have nearly the same chemical properties, and wether there is somewhat more Ce, La or even Nd, > makes nearly no difference for the structure, the cell dimensions etc., and the transition from one species to another is in > principle continuous. You can't even speak of end members in that case. > > A striking example of nomenclature that IMHO is at least confusing is cerite. Nowadays we have to speak about cerite-(Ce) and > cerite-(La). The latter looks even like a contradiction in terms. > > For the individual collector (and even for many museum curators) it is impossible now to keep in line with the nomenclature rules, > as every single specimen should be analysed very thoroughly to be able to put the right label on it. An example : we think that we > identified a species when we know that it's chabazite... but that is not a species name anymore : it's either chabazite-Ca, or > chabazite-K, or chabazite-Na or chabazite-Sr. If you realise that e.g. chabazite-K also contains Na and Ca, that the 4 species are > not distinct, and that they are all trigonal with nearly identical properties you will understand that defining for a specimen what > it's real name should be is a nearly impossible task, even when sophisticated instruments are available. And what is the advantage > of that complicated nomenclature ? > > Another nice case is jahnsite-(CaMnFe), jahnsite-(CaMnMg) and jahnsite-(CaMnMn). These are no mineral names anymore ; at the end we > will speak in terms of complete chemical formulas. The reason why a name was invented for each species was that it had to be more > easy to remember than a formula. > > Another example of a bad name (my opinion) : ferrotitanowodginite FeTiTa2O8. If things were logic wodginite, MnSnTa2O8 should be > renamed to manganostannowodginite. > Nearly ridiculous is sodic-ferri-clinoferroholmquistite. No, I'm not joking. The name is in the 2004 glossary. This is pure > nonsense. > > Some nomenclature people try to put so much information in a name, that it is no name anymore, but a formula-like thing that we > can't use in daily life. > > I am in favour for a return to simple names, where compositional changes are considered as varieties rather than as species, as long > as the symmetry doesn't change. What is the opinion of other list members ? > > Greetings, > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > Belgium > > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > >>> Belgian minerals > >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! > >>> Exchange list > > MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 25 20:35:29 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sat Sep 25 20:29:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral names and valid mineral species References: <001601c4a34a$e6955430$0100a8c0@maxdata> Message-ID: <005901c4a379$e03a3d60$71a4490c@pete> Some of you may have read the column by John White in a recent issue of Rocks & Minerals about this--his column was titled "The Nomenclature Debacle", and he laments all these same things. My personal opinion--distinguishing the exact species is often unnecesary and unimportant, both for a mineral collector and for a geologist or mineralogist. I'd say; a name like "chabazite" is still a name with valid meaning, it just isn't a species name, and it doesn't specify whether the chemical composition is Ca-dominant or Na-dominant. If that's not an important distinction, then just call it "chabazite", and for most purposes, that's good enough, and it's all most people (amateurs or professionals) need to no. For some minerals, it's real obvious what the species is; for example, olivine; essentially all olivine in basalt lavas and in peridotites is forsterite. Fayalite is of uncommon occurrence, as euhedral microcrystals in gas cavities in silicic lava, and rarely, as solid masses in some unusual pegmatites. It's easy to infer what the species is, from the geologic environment. But even though we know which is forsterite and which is fayalite, geologists and petrologists and mineralogists continue to simply use "olivine", and I hope they always do so! If one requires the additional specificity, one can always make the inference, or look up the chemical data, or analyze the mineral oneself to determine it. As a mineral that's quite the opposite, I'd mention scapolite. Much scapolite (the series between marialite and meionite) is pretty near 50:50, so it really become a rather moot point, which species it is, unless one is doing some high-powered geochemical calculations where you need to know the exact chemical balance between Na and Ca, and Cl vs. CO3. So for most purposes (including mineral displays, at shows or museums or anywhere), I'd say, just label the mineral "scapolite" and let it go at that, and don't sweat worrying about which side of 50:50 the mineral lies on. Who cares? And if someone does care, for purposes of their mineralogical research, they can always look up the exact data. As I said, those are my personal opinions on this. Every time one refers to something in nature, one doesn't necessarily have to cite the absolute most precise data about it. We can talk about the virtue of "protecting whales in Arctic waters", let's say, without necessarily having to give the genus and species names of all the pertinent whales that inhabit the area. Or one can talk about waterfowl, or ducks, or warblers, or raptors, etc. For other purpose, certainly, one needs to specify exactly what kind of whales or birds are being addressed. Pete Modreski From kahako at aloha.net Sat Sep 25 21:00:39 2004 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Sep 25 20:32:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] pennies (OT) was how do YOU identify minerals? In-Reply-To: <20040925210859.30E6BEAB352@delivery.infowest.com> References: <20040924185829.10802.qmail@web51010.mail.yahoo.com> <20040925210859.30E6BEAB352@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040925174654.03a658e0@mail.aloha.net> When I was a kid I loved to collect the steel pennies because they always had the year I was born on them (1943). I eventually stopped collecting and simply spent them. Now I just checked the Web and see on eBay some valued at $40 to $100. Apparently they were steel, and were only issued that one year, 1943. Aloha, Kitty At 11:09 AM 9/25/2004, you wrote: >Also, during WWII, pennies were ugly silvery-looking zinc(?) things with, as >I understand it, no copper at all. All copper went to the war effort, of >course. > >Margaret From rainforest1950 at lycos.com Sat Sep 25 21:48:24 2004 From: rainforest1950 at lycos.com (rain forest) Date: Sat Sep 25 21:48:25 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Non-copper WW2 pennies Message-ID: <20040926044824.20760E5BC9@ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com> Only one year, 1943 used zinc clad steel pennies. However for several years nickles were made with silver; should you find a War Nickle with the mint mark above the dome on Monticello; that's silver. Only time that the 'P' was used for the Philly mint. David Bese The Rainforest Hippie Pt. Orchard, Wa. -- _______________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sun Sep 26 00:40:38 2004 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sun Sep 26 00:41:02 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral names and valid mineral species In-Reply-To: <41563571.43ED@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000f01c4a39c$219735c0$0100a8c0@maxdata> Hi Kreigh and Pete (and all others, of course), I have met Dr. Burke several times (he lives only about 150 km from here) to exchange ideas about microprobe instrumentation. I know he is a very clever person and a splendid scientist with much common sense. I am pretty confident that our comments will interest him, but I don't know if an "e-mail campaign" would be appropriate (I'm concerned about Ernst's mailbox :>)), unless new arguments can be provided. I'm glad anyway that obviously I am not standing alone with my criticism on the actual (too) complex nomenclature rules. Best regards, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ *-----Original Message----- *From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com *[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of *Kreigh Tomaszewski *Sent: zondag 26 september 2004 5:27 *To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors *Cc: ernst.burke@falw.vu.nl *Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mineral names and valid mineral species * * *Rik, * *The 'lumpers' and 'splitters' have been at it for ages, and *the splitters seem to have been winning recently. *Unfortunately, this has caused most amateur collectors (and *professionals, and museums) hardships in labeling their collections. * *Part of the reason behind this is based in the academic need *to publish; splitting makes a fertile field for a research *topic when you don't have something that is actually original. * *Part of the reason is also that splitting allows more *individuals their 15 minutes of fame from 'discovering' new minerals. * *Part of the reason is that the pendulum happens to be swinging *that way at this point in history. I expect it will eventually *swing too far and return to lumping again before too long. *This is not the first cycle if you are a student of history. * *I am first a systematic collector. My primary collection is *organized by chemistry. I am slowly working towards one *specimen of every *(recognized) mineral; I also include 'commonly accepted' *minerals that are not 'recognized', e.g., Turgite. * *My secondary collection is split between duplicates from my *primary collection (mostly alternate locations), ores (with a *personal favor towards gypsum {the mineral with a 120 year *history of mining in my home town}, and metal ores) from *multiple locations, rocks (granite, diorite, sandstone, *quartzite, schist, etc.) from my interest in geology, and *fossils (I pick them up when I come across them, but don't go *looking for them). * *As you observed, some splitting makes sense, such as in *forsterite and fayalite (but mostly for research purposes), *but frankly my specimens are probably all going to be labeled *olivine unless a particular locality is shown to be *consistently one or the other. * *I have problems with the concept that every specimen _must_ be *submitted to a lab (for {expensive} research) before it can *properly be labeled. * *Most splitting, as in the 'Levinson modifier' that is *becomming all too common, is going too far. Chemical formulas *have their place. But names and words are invented to give *unique identification to a thing or idea (even though words *often acquire multiple meanings). * *If the 'modifier' concept must be retained, then the affected *minerals need to acquire new, unique, names instead of a *contrived formula appendage. Lumping formulas and names is *inconsistent and should not be retained. * *I agree with you that returning to the tradition of varietial *names makes much more sense, especially when no physical form *changes occur as you detailed. Quartz var. (Amethyst, Citrine, *Smoky/Smokey, Herkimer Diamond, etc.), or Gypsum var. *(Selenite, Satin Spar, Alabaster, Pencil, etc.), makes much *more sense than jahnsite-(CaMnMg) to just about everyone *except academics (including, it appears, the IMA). * *BTW, you can find the IMA website at *http://www.geo.vu.nl/users/ima-cnmmn/ * *I offer the Mica 'family' as another example; I understand *there are eight varieties that can be identified without a lab *(and less that are 'commonly accepted'), but there are more *than 32 that are 'recognized' *-- if you want to spend money on lab studies; the differences *have absolutely no significance to anyone except academics. * *Does the amateur collecting community need to start a global *email campaign to Ernest A. J. Burke (current IMA Chairman, *who I have copied on my reply) to try to swing the pendulum *back towards a more sensible balance between lumping and splitting? * *Kreigh * * * * * * * *Rik Dillen wrote: *> *> The thread on identification methods of minerals is strongly related *> to the definition of mineral species. *> *> It is e.g. impossible to distinguish forsterite (Mg2SiO4) from *> fayalite (Fe2SiO4) by simple means, as most samples have an *> intermediate composition and are called "olivine" (Mg,Fe)2SiO4 which *> is not a recognised and valid species name. An artificial *barrier was *> set halfway : material with Mg>Fe is considered as forsterite, *> material with Fe>Mg is fayalite. In theory this sounds *logical, but in *> practice it means that an analysis is needed to be able to *put a label *> on the specimen, unless you know from the litterature that the *> composition is known and constant for the locality. *> *> I can live with that, but since a few years very eminent scientists *> have found it necessary to make the situation unnecessary *complex. The *> so-called Levinson modifier, as in cerianite-(Ce), is pleonastic and *> the extra information is redundant. As you know, all rare earth *> elements have nearly the same chemical properties, and *wether there is *> somewhat more Ce, La or even Nd, makes nearly no difference for the *> structure, the cell dimensions etc., and the transition from one *> species to another is in principle continuous. You can't *even speak of *> end members in that case. *> *> A striking example of nomenclature that IMHO is at least *confusing is *> cerite. Nowadays we have to speak about cerite-(Ce) and cerite-(La). *> The latter looks even like a contradiction in terms. *> *> For the individual collector (and even for many museum *curators) it is *> impossible now to keep in line with the nomenclature rules, as every *> single specimen should be analysed very thoroughly to be able to put *> the right label on it. An example : we think that we identified a *> species when we know that it's chabazite... but that is not *a species *> name anymore : it's either chabazite-Ca, or chabazite-K, or *> chabazite-Na or chabazite-Sr. If you realise that e.g. chabazite-K *> also contains Na and Ca, that the 4 species are not *distinct, and that *> they are all trigonal with nearly identical properties you will *> understand that defining for a specimen what it's real name *should be *> is a nearly impossible task, even when sophisticated instruments are *> available. And what is the advantage of that complicated *nomenclature *> ? *> *> Another nice case is jahnsite-(CaMnFe), jahnsite-(CaMnMg) and *> jahnsite-(CaMnMn). These are no mineral names anymore ; at *the end we *> will speak in terms of complete chemical formulas. The reason why a *> name was invented for each species was that it had to be *more easy to *> remember than a formula. *> *> Another example of a bad name (my opinion) : ferrotitanowodginite *> FeTiTa2O8. If things were logic wodginite, MnSnTa2O8 should *be renamed *> to manganostannowodginite. Nearly ridiculous is *> sodic-ferri-clinoferroholmquistite. No, I'm not joking. The *name is in *> the 2004 glossary. This is pure nonsense. *> *> Some nomenclature people try to put so much information in a name, *> that it is no name anymore, but a formula-like thing that we *can't use *> in daily life. *> *> I am in favour for a return to simple names, where compositional *> changes are considered as varieties rather than as species, *as long as *> the symmetry doesn't change. What is the opinion of other *list members *> ? *> *> Greetings, *> *> Rik DILLEN *> Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas *> Belgium *> *> E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be *> *> Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen *> >>> Belgian minerals *> >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) *postage stamp *> >>> ! Exchange list *> *> MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 *> Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) *> Jan Van rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen *> http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html *> Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ *> *> *> _______________________________________________ *> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List *> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds *> Subscription Services: *> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds * *_______________________________________________ *Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List *WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds *Subscription Services: *http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds * * From jabac at hal-pc.org Sun Sep 26 01:53:26 2004 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Sun Sep 26 01:52:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1096188763.2880.6.camel@localhost> On Fri, 2004-09-24 at 13:33, William Cordua wrote: > The penny became a copper - zinc (?) alloy whose hardness was less than pure > copper (old pennies H is about 3). This, of course, upset its use as a > hardness point. You'd think the goberment would consult us all here before > doing such things! Dang revenooers! > > BTW - I asked my intro. geology lab class for old pennies - telling them > I'd pay 2 cents for every one they brought in. The kids of one of my > non-traditional students went through their penny jars and nearly cleaned me > out. Little entrepreneurs, they were. I do have a large sack of pennies for > my lab, so won't have to worry for decades. > > Dr. Bill > > on 9/24/04 1:19 PM, Lapadary@aol.com at Lapadary@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 9/24/04 7:45:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu writes: > > > > , a copper penny (pre > > 1983), > > ---------------------------------- > > What happened to the penny that changed it? I'm not a coin collector and > > don't keep up with those things. > > > > Grant > > > > > > -- The penny, which was a bronze alloy, is now primarily zinc with a thin copper plating. Melting a bunch of them together makes a pretty good sacrificial anode for galvanic environments. john From burnette at ispwest.com Sun Sep 26 05:12:45 2004 From: burnette at ispwest.com (burnette@ispwest.com) Date: Sun Sep 26 05:12:48 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] crystal point in Williamsport,Pa Message-ID: <318bf2288df24decb6e6a959a9dd31c6.burnette@ispwest.com> Terry wrote: > Please tell me how your trip to Crystal Point Diamond mine was. I live in that area and have not talked to anyone about it. > Should we go etc? > > Thank You > Terry > My wife and I spent a very enjoyable day at the Crystal Point Diamond mine this spring, and got lots of quartz crystal to show for it. The quartz found there is almost all plates of small crystals growing parallel to each other off the sandstone matrix into a crack or void. The tips of the crystals are mostly clear, but also a few smokey and some with hematite inclusions (red). You do not find the large, long single crystals like those available in Arkansas or Brazil, etc. Chip Camp Hill, PA From Lapidry at aol.com Sun Sep 26 06:15:57 2004 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Sun Sep 26 06:16:03 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] pennies (OT) was how do YOU identify minerals? Message-ID: <64.443f0945.2e881b0d@aol.com> In a message dated 9/25/2004 11:33:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, kahako@aloha.net writes: When I was a kid I loved to collect the steel pennies because they always had the year I was born on them (1943). I eventually stopped collecting and simply spent them. Now I just checked the Web and see on eBay some valued at $40 to $100. Apparently they were steel, and were only issued that one year, 1943. Kitty: I haven't kept up on coin prices but I used to work for one of the largest coin dealers in the US when I was in college. The weekend shows fit in well with a college schedule and I needed the money. Anyway, steel pennies are very common. People saved them because they were different. You should be able to buy whole rolls of high grade coins for far less than $40. A really well struck uncirculated 1943 these days might just go for $40, I don't know. Anything less than that though.... The reason steel pennies were only issued in 1943 but the war ran through 1945 is they started recycling the shell cases from ammunition into pennies. If you have a 1944 or 1945 penny, it probably contains at least some shell case copper. If I recall, the exact copper to zinc ratio plus possibly other metals is different for these two years than normal copper pennies. Not being a metallurgist, I never have been able to understand why they couldn't just recycle the old shell cases into new cases. Dan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kadok at infowest.com Sun Sep 26 08:30:36 2004 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sun Sep 26 08:30:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? In-Reply-To: <001501c4a348$43601680$6998490c@HHEPC> Message-ID: <20040926153027.644D6EA983D@delivery.infowest.com> Could be, I guess, although steel was just as precious a commodity as copper at that time. And I don't remember them as being all that heavy --. Margaret >As I understand it, the WW II pennies were made from steel. Homer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margaret Malm" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 4:09 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? > > Also, during WWII, pennies were ugly silvery-looking zinc(?) things with, > as > I understand it, no copper at all. All copper went to the war effort, of > course. > > Margaret > ____ > In mid-1982 (not 1983) pennies went from solid copper > to a clad composition. This affected the hardness, and > also the weight (also the resistance to corrosion- > look at how ugly recent pennies get, versus the older > ones) > Jim Daly > Sauktown Sales > www.sauktown.com > --- Lapadary@aol.com wrote: > >> In a message dated 9/24/04 7:45:34 AM Pacific >> Daylight Time, >> william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu writes: >> >> , a copper penny (pre >> 1983), >> ---------------------------------- >> What happened to the penny that changed it? I'm not >> a coin collector and >> don't keep up with those things. >> >> Grant >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Sun Sep 26 08:43:49 2004 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Sun Sep 26 08:43:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? Message-ID: <11.34320b51.2e883db5@aol.com> In mid 1982 the penny became a zinc planchet electroplated with copper from a cyanide solution. I know because I was product manager for cyanide at the time and I know who was buying the cyanide and what they were doing with it. One other thing. Do not use the 1944 and 45 "copper" pennies for hardness testing as these were made with reclaimed brass shell casings mixed into the normal alloy. Gene Hartstein Newark DE In a message dated 9/26/2004 4:52:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, jabac@hal-pc.org writes: On Fri, 2004-09-24 at 13:33, William Cordua wrote: > The penny became a copper - zinc (?) alloy whose hardness was less than pure > copper (old pennies H is about 3). This, of course, upset its use as a > hardness point. You'd think the goberment would consult us all here before > doing such things! Dang revenooers! > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Sun Sep 26 08:43:50 2004 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Sun Sep 26 08:43:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Non-copper WW2 pennies Message-ID: <13e.27f77a0.2e883db6@aol.com> In a message dated 9/26/2004 12:48:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, rainforest1950@lycos.com writes: Only time that the 'P' was used for the Philly mint. Till recently. Now the P is used on all coins out of Philly Gene Hartstein Newark, DE --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pbhewitt at comcast.net Sun Sep 26 08:45:26 2004 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul Hewitt) Date: Sun Sep 26 08:45:16 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? References: <20040926153027.644D6EA983D@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: <000a01c4a3df$d7dee4c0$6401a8c0@netgear> WWII pennies were made of steel. There was one year at the end of the war in which only a few steel pennies were minted and therefore they are worth a LOT of money. There are unscrupulous people who plate copper pennies from that year in order to pass them off as steel pennies and sell them. The definitive test of authenticity is to pass a magnet over the coin to see if it picks up the coin. That is the story I got when I was a coin collector and perused the coin message boards anyway. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margaret Malm" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 11:30 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? > Could be, I guess, although steel was just as precious a commodity as copper > at that time. And I don't remember them as being all that heavy --. > > Margaret > > > >As I understand it, the WW II pennies were made from steel. > > Homer > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Margaret Malm" > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > > Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 4:09 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? > > > > > > Also, during WWII, pennies were ugly silvery-looking zinc(?) things with, > > as > > I understand it, no copper at all. All copper went to the war effort, of > > course. > > > > Margaret > > ____ > > In mid-1982 (not 1983) pennies went from solid copper > > to a clad composition. This affected the hardness, and > > also the weight (also the resistance to corrosion- > > look at how ugly recent pennies get, versus the older > > ones) > > Jim Daly > > Sauktown Sales > > www.sauktown.com > > --- Lapadary@aol.com wrote: > > > >> In a message dated 9/24/04 7:45:34 AM Pacific > >> Daylight Time, > >> william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu writes: > >> > >> , a copper penny (pre > >> 1983), > >> ---------------------------------- > >> What happened to the penny that changed it? I'm not > >> a coin collector and > >> don't keep up with those things. > >> > >> Grant > >> > >> > >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >> multipart/alternative > >> text/plain (text body -- kept) > >> text/html > >> --- > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sun Sep 26 11:29:48 2004 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sun Sep 26 11:29:51 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Non-copper WW2 pennies In-Reply-To: <13e.27f77a0.2e883db6@aol.com> Message-ID: <20040926182948.13136.qmail@web51006.mail.yahoo.com> --- FOSSILNUT@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/26/2004 12:48:59 AM Eastern > Standard Time, > rainforest1950@lycos.com writes: > Only time that the 'P' was used for the Philly mint. > Till recently. Now the P is used on all coins out of > Philly > Gene Hartstein > Newark, DE > Except for pennies. Jim __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From bombastus at worldnet.att.net Sun Sep 26 13:30:12 2004 From: bombastus at worldnet.att.net (Homer Eshbaugh) Date: Sun Sep 26 13:30:35 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Non-copper WW2 pennies References: <20040926044824.20760E5BC9@ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <003001c4a407$a652d830$8b98490c@HHEPC> Wow! Cool to know about the "P". I've noticed it over the years and often wondered why it was there since "P" (Philadelphia) is always the default mint location, and therefore, was never stamped on US coins. Thanks for clearing that up! Homer ----- Original Message ----- From: "rain forest" To: Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 11:48 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Non-copper WW2 pennies > Only one year, 1943 used zinc clad steel pennies. However for several > years nickles were made with silver; should you find a War Nickle with the > mint mark above the dome on Monticello; that's silver. Only time that the > 'P' was used for the Philly mint. > > David Bese > The Rainforest Hippie > Pt. Orchard, Wa. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages > http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From xossfs at yahoo.com Sun Sep 26 19:21:16 2004 From: xossfs at yahoo.com (Stephen Stover) Date: Sun Sep 26 19:21:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Non-copper WW2 pennies In-Reply-To: <003001c4a407$a652d830$8b98490c@HHEPC> Message-ID: <20040927022116.3295.qmail@web20024.mail.yahoo.com> warning on the silver war nickles. made from 1942 - 1945 and they are allyed and are only aprox 40 % silver --- Homer Eshbaugh wrote: > Wow! Cool to know about the "P". I've noticed it > over the years and often > wondered why it was there since "P" (Philadelphia) > is always the default > mint location, and therefore, was never stamped on > US coins. Thanks for > clearing that up! > > Homer > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "rain forest" > To: > Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 11:48 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Non-copper WW2 pennies > > > > Only one year, 1943 used zinc clad steel pennies. > However for several > > years nickles were made with silver; should you > find a War Nickle with the > > mint mark above the dome on Monticello; that's > silver. Only time that the > > 'P' was used for the Philly mint. > > > > David Bese > > The Rainforest Hippie > > Pt. Orchard, Wa. > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Find what you are looking for with the Lycos > Yellow Pages > > > http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > ===== Stephen F. Stover PH (281) 829-1102 xossfs@yahoo.com Wanting to hunt rocks and play games every day! _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com From TomE61 at aol.com Sun Sep 26 22:31:07 2004 From: TomE61 at aol.com (TomE61@aol.com) Date: Sun Sep 26 22:31:12 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] crystal point in Williamsport,Pa Message-ID: Terry, I am going to assume that you meant you inquiry for me, since I was the only one who mentioned Crystal Point in the last three (3) weeks. I am going to take a moment to ask subscribers, as many have done before me, to make sure that the subject line is changed to reflect your response, and also to include the name of the originating author or authoress, as the case may be, so that the right person is responding to the right e-mail. This would REALLY help faciliate communication and help cut down on the huge volume of e-mail that passes through this particular channel. Having said that, here are my observations about Crystal Point and they are somewhat different from Chip's experience, as outlined in a previous e-mail. I have been to CP twice this month; once during the Labor Day weekend, and once this past weekend. On both trips, my cousin and/or my sister were able to extract huge buckets of crystals of every conceivable size and shape. The crystals were either in situ, that is, matrix, or loose on the ground, or buried under a mountain of dirt, but in almost all cases, were reasonably easy to extract. You are also free to use any kind of or combation of tool to get to the buried crystals. Here are some things you need to know: 1. The trip to CP costs $40 US and is payable in cash. You meet Ray Smith at his downtown Williamsport office and he then directs you and anyone else to the actual collecting site. 2. Ray Smith does not often receive and/or answer e-mails, so its best to followup any e-mail with a phone call to make sure that you are clear to go to this site. The website has been down several times in the last month or so, but I believe its pretty stable now. 3. The actual collecting area is an a VERY rural area, about 10 miles from the heart of Williamsport, and is NOT conducive to most cars; you are better off with a truck, jeep, SUV or any car that has 4-wheel drive. Use any other type of car at your own risk. 4. The collecting area has no comfort facilities, per se, and no real areas for you to picnic, so plan accordingly. 5. The area has an enormous amount of tools, including picks, pick-axes, shovels, rakes, etc. so that you may be able to use theirs and leave yours in the car. 6. You will get dirty. Even if you only browse around. Not recommended to wear shorts, etc.; wear old full fitting clothes instead. Use insect repellant. If you enjoy mud, you will be very happy. 7. Spend a little bit of time in EACH area, dig, pick and sift and see what you find, and THEN, go back a little while later to see what you may have missed. I spent 30 minutes on one hill, extracted a good deal of crystals, and on a return trip, found even more. BE PATIENT. You won't find everything at once. 8. Pace yourself. Start at the top of the mine, and work your way around. Even if you are a high energy person, I can guarantee you that the walk DOWN and then UP the huge hill that leads to the guts of the mine will exhaust you in no time at all. I've already seen several people give up after one hour. 9. Take it all. The crystals are dirty and sometimes you may not appreciate their value until you get them home and clean them. Don't hesitate. Take it and see what happens later. After all, you paid for it. 10. Ray Smith has not imposed any time or quantity limit on either of my two trips, so I believe you can feel free to collect all day long. 11. The reddish hematite infused crystals are NOT common, but NOT impossible to find. They are apparently very valuable and look really nice; be on the look out for them. I am, while writing this e-mail, soaking my crystals in Dawn detergent and admiring their quality and clarity. I have several crystals of over 1-inch in diameter, and several star clusters, of 2 or more crystals, and they are pretty impressive. I also have an enormous amount of what I call (personally) "tear-drop" crystals, which are perfectly formed crystal heads, with long tails that resemble tear drops. They are awesome. I also have some double-terminated crystals, in perfect shape, and some tertiary (3-sided) crystals as well. Finally, I found a citrine like crystal formation, about the size of a ripe plumb, with perfect shape and NO defects, that in my opinion, made the entire trip wothwhile. All in all, the trip to Williamsport was well worth it. I have already been through the entire Herkimer Diamond "experience" in upstate New York, and quite frankly, Crystal Point was a much better deal, in terms of cost, productity, ease of collecting and beautiful surroundings. And, unless you REALLY work it, you don't sweat so much. Let me know if you have questions or need some clarification. Tom Russell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Sep 27 00:58:16 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Sep 27 00:57:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Non-copper WW2 pennies In-Reply-To: <20040927022116.3295.qmail@web20024.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >warning on the silver war nickles. >made from 1942 - 1945 and they are allyed and are only >aprox 40 % silver Maybe a note on silver alloys: Silver is, to my knowledge, the strongest coloring agent in the metal realm. Adding 10 % Ag to copper will completely suppress the reddish color of the copper. Chances are that those nickels would look like pure silver. cheers Axel From jabac at hal-pc.org Mon Sep 27 02:40:37 2004 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Mon Sep 27 02:40:06 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? In-Reply-To: <11.34320b51.2e883db5@aol.com> References: <11.34320b51.2e883db5@aol.com> Message-ID: <1096278037.2737.24.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2004-09-26 at 10:43, FOSSILNUT@aol.com wrote: > In mid 1982 the penny became a zinc planchet electroplated with copper from a > cyanide solution. I know because I was product manager for cyanide at the > time and I know who was buying the cyanide and what they were doing with it. > > One other thing. Do not use the 1944 and 45 "copper" pennies for hardness > testing as these were made with reclaimed brass shell casings mixed into the > normal alloy. > > Gene Hartstein > Newark DE Hmmm... Since Moh was using gypsum and calcite as his hardness measure for 2 and 3, how much different would it be if the alloy were this or that kind of U.S. bronze coin? As long as it scratches gypsum and not calcite. Or should we consider pure copper to be the measure? In answer to the other question of why the shell-casing brass was not recycled into other shell-casings, one could not trust the use of used casings directly, and the refining process was probably more expensive than original alloying. Then again, the problem may have been political. There was a dramatic jump in metal production during the war and the producers surely did not look too kindly at the thought of recycling their product... Also, there was a considerable less demand for shell casings late in and after WWII, and a considerable surplus of casings. Their use in pennies, which were in short supply, was a nice solution to the problem. I am not sure that there is a substantial difference in hardness between the standard penny bronze and those special ones. john From xossfs at yahoo.com Mon Sep 27 09:06:53 2004 From: xossfs at yahoo.com (Stephen Stover) Date: Mon Sep 27 09:06:54 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Non-copper WW2 pennies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040927160653.28074.qmail@web20021.mail.yahoo.com> yes they do. Better to add a little lemon juice to them. Eats awy the copper and yuo get a psuedo silver plate expecially if you rub it just a little. Incas used that tech. to plate gold onto copper to make large "gold" objects. --- Axel Emmermann wrote: > >warning on the silver war nickles. > > >made from 1942 - 1945 and they are allyed and are > only > >aprox 40 % silver > > Maybe a note on silver alloys: > Silver is, to my knowledge, the strongest coloring > agent in the metal realm. > Adding 10 % Ag to copper will completely suppress > the reddish color of the > copper. > Chances are that those nickels would look like pure > silver. > > cheers > > Axel > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > ===== Stephen F. Stover PH (281) 829-1102 xossfs@yahoo.com Wanting to hunt rocks and play games every day! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From xossfs at yahoo.com Mon Sep 27 09:12:30 2004 From: xossfs at yahoo.com (Stephen Stover) Date: Mon Sep 27 09:12:31 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? In-Reply-To: <000a01c4a3df$d7dee4c0$6401a8c0@netgear> Message-ID: <20040927161230.75482.qmail@web20022.mail.yahoo.com> Steel pennies are only 1943 and the rare 1944. they were zinc plated but made of steel. Steel was easy to make form iron ore and the whol pennie mintage did not equal but one or two armor plates. The copper saved was not much either. However it was symbolic in letting the people know the gov was doing something. Remeber all the scerap metal drives of the war to help our boys. msot of that metal never made it into the supply chain. Scrap metal is more expensive to make then form the ore and except for a few rare types. Most of the scrap just ended up in depots till the endo fo the war. It was sold off in bulk after wards and made into new conusmer products. The drives was to get the populous behind the ware effort and the steel pennies helped in that work. --- Paul Hewitt wrote: > WWII pennies were made of steel. There was one year > at the end of the war > in which only a few steel pennies were minted and > therefore they are worth a > LOT of money. There are unscrupulous people who > plate copper pennies from > that year in order to pass them off as steel pennies > and sell them. The > definitive test of authenticity is to pass a magnet > over the coin to see if > it picks up the coin. That is the story I got when > I was a coin collector > and perused the coin message boards anyway. > > Paul > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Margaret Malm" > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for > rock and gem collectors'" > > Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 11:30 AM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify > minerals? > > > > Could be, I guess, although steel was just as > precious a commodity as > copper > > at that time. And I don't remember them as being > all that heavy --. > > > > Margaret > > > > > > >As I understand it, the WW II pennies were made > from steel. > > > > Homer > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Margaret Malm" > > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for > rock and gem collectors'" > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 4:09 PM > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify > minerals? > > > > > > > > > > Also, during WWII, pennies were ugly > silvery-looking zinc(?) things > with, > > > as > > > I understand it, no copper at all. All copper > went to the war effort, of > > > course. > > > > > > Margaret > > > ____ > > > In mid-1982 (not 1983) pennies went from solid > copper > > > to a clad composition. This affected the > hardness, and > > > also the weight (also the resistance to > corrosion- > > > look at how ugly recent pennies get, versus the > older > > > ones) > > > Jim Daly > > > Sauktown Sales > > > www.sauktown.com > > > --- Lapadary@aol.com wrote: > > > > > >> In a message dated 9/24/04 7:45:34 AM Pacific > > >> Daylight Time, > > >> william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu writes: > > >> > > >> , a copper penny (pre > > >> 1983), > > >> ---------------------------------- > > >> What happened to the penny that changed it? I'm > not > > >> a coin collector and > > >> don't keep up with those things. > > >> > > >> Grant > > >> > > >> > > >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts > --- > > >> multipart/alternative > > >> text/plain (text body -- kept) > > >> text/html > > >> --- > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > >> Subscription Services: > > >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB > messages! > > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > ===== Stephen F. Stover PH (281) 829-1102 xossfs@yahoo.com Wanting to hunt rocks and play games every day! _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com From Lapadary at aol.com Mon Sep 27 14:49:45 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Mon Sep 27 14:50:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Non-copper WW2 pennies Message-ID: <1e6.2bb6f11b.2e89e4f9@aol.com> In a message dated 9/27/04 9:08:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time, xossfs@yahoo.com writes: yes they do. Better to add a little lemon juice to them. Eats awy the copper and yuo get a psuedo silver plate expecially if you rub it just a little. -------------------------------- When I was young -- late 40s, early 50s -- we were warned about putting coins in our mouths. One of the reasons given was because some copper pennies had been dipped in mercury and mercury was poisonous. I don't know if that was true or just an old wives tale. Many years later I poured mercury into a plastic gold pan to make amalgam of the fine gold I had recovered. I remembered that warning about mercury and tried to avoid getting it in my mouth. Then I went to the dentist and he filled a cavity with amalgam. :- ) Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Sep 27 16:43:23 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Sep 27 16:40:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Non-copper WW2 pennies References: <1e6.2bb6f11b.2e89e4f9@aol.com> Message-ID: <4158A4E9.5BD7@Tomaszewski.net> When I was a kid a common science experiment was to take Mercurochrome (2% antiseptic solution) and free the mercury onto a copper penny to make it 'silver'. I understand Mercurochrome no longer contains mercury. Mercury has an affinity for copper. The FDA recommends using a shiny copper penny as a safe way to pick up mercury from a broken thermometer. Kreigh Lapadary@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 9/27/04 9:08:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time, xossfs@yahoo.com > writes: > yes they do. Better to add a little lemon juice to > them. Eats awy the copper and yuo get a psuedo silver > plate expecially if you rub it just a little. > > -------------------------------- > When I was young -- late 40s, early 50s -- we were warned about putting coins > in our mouths. One of the reasons given was because some copper pennies had > been dipped in mercury and mercury was poisonous. I don't know if that was true > or just an old wives tale. Many years later I poured mercury into a plastic > gold pan to make amalgam of the fine gold I had recovered. I remembered that > warning about mercury and tried to avoid getting it in my mouth. Then I went to > the dentist and he filled a cavity with amalgam. :- ) > > Grant From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Sep 27 17:22:31 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Sep 27 17:19:34 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Poetry and non-copper pennies -- was: how do YOU identify minerals? References: <11.34320b51.2e883db5@aol.com> <1096278037.2737.24.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <4158AE10.626@Tomaszewski.net> I did a google search for 'non-copper war pennies' and came up with "Mineral Book", a collection of poems and essays about 'minerals in my home' from a national annual contest sponsored by The Society for Mining, Metallurgy and Exploration. If you want to read the essays or find out more about the contest they have been holding since 1916 go to their website at http://www.smepittsburgh.org They also give grants to science teachers. The website has some interesting mining links and other information. And they sell "If it can't be grown it has to be mined" T-shirts (but I couldn't find them in their store, possibly because I am not a member). Kreigh john wrote: > > On Sun, 2004-09-26 at 10:43, FOSSILNUT@aol.com wrote: > > In mid 1982 the penny became a zinc planchet electroplated with copper from a > > cyanide solution. I know because I was product manager for cyanide at the > > time and I know who was buying the cyanide and what they were doing with it. > > > > One other thing. Do not use the 1944 and 45 "copper" pennies for hardness > > testing as these were made with reclaimed brass shell casings mixed into the > > normal alloy. > > > > Gene Hartstein > > Newark DE > > Hmmm... Since Moh was using gypsum and calcite as his hardness measure > for 2 and 3, how much different would it be if the alloy were this or > that kind of U.S. bronze coin? As long as it scratches gypsum and not > calcite. > > Or should we consider pure copper to be the measure? > > In answer to the other question of why the shell-casing brass was not > recycled into other shell-casings, one could not trust the use of used > casings directly, and the refining process was probably more expensive > than original alloying. Then again, the problem may have been political. > There was a dramatic jump in metal production during the war and the > producers surely did not look too kindly at the thought of recycling > their product... > > Also, there was a considerable less demand for shell casings late in and > after WWII, and a considerable surplus of casings. Their use in pennies, > which were in short supply, was a nice solution to the problem. > > I am not sure that there is a substantial difference in hardness between > the standard penny bronze and those special ones. > > john > From Lapadary at aol.com Mon Sep 27 19:18:33 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Mon Sep 27 19:18:37 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Non-copper WW2 pennies Message-ID: <46.59cd8574.2e8a23f9@aol.com> In a message dated 9/27/04 4:40:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: When I was a kid a common science experiment was to take Mercurochrome (2% antiseptic solution) and free the mercury onto a copper penny to make it 'silver'. I understand Mercurochrome no longer contains mercury. Mercury has an affinity for copper. The FDA recommends using a shiny copper penny as a safe way to pick up mercury from a broken thermometer. Thanks Kreigh, That might be why we were warned about putting coins in our mouth. Regardless of the reason, it is not a good idea for kids to put coins in their mouth. I think the story about mercury poison made more sense to kids than warnings about bacteria. Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jonee at epix.net Tue Sep 28 01:36:49 2004 From: jonee at epix.net (E. L. Jones) Date: Tue Sep 28 01:36:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds]Rock Collecting in the Hudson Area In-Reply-To: <75.343f53d5.2e80eaf2@aol.com> References: <75.343f53d5.2e80eaf2@aol.com> Message-ID: <415922A1.90607@epix.net> TomE61@aol.com wrote: snip... >2. I've been several times, and purchased a few hiking maps (Orange, >Rockland & Putnam counties) to help me out..... The >bookstore south of Bear Mountain, on the Palisades Parkway, has an excellent >collection. > Hello Tom, Steve, List I don't have it a finger tip-- but there is a book about hiking trails to about 43(?) old Iron Mines in NY and NJ. Looks like a great place to start if you are into magnetite. Perhaps a google could get you in the neighborhood for the title. I purchased it at the Sterling Hill Gift shop for future use. Look to mindat.org for the counties in that region and see what they have yielded. Elton From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Sep 28 02:14:45 2004 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Sep 28 02:13:58 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Non-copper WW2 pennies In-Reply-To: <46.59cd8574.2e8a23f9@aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Grant & Kreigh we did that too in chem. class... The mercury evaporates rather quickly from the large surface of a coin (our old 50 cent pieces were copper coins). That was before the Minamata-incident made the news. Little did we know about the lethal properties of mercury at the time. Mercurochrome has no disinfectant properties and has been replaced by eosin for all medicinal purposes (which is also a poor disinfectant but is great for drying wounds) BTW: using a shiny copper coin to pick up mercury is only safe when you put the coin in a airtight container afterwards ;-))) Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Lapadary@aol.com Verzonden: dinsdag 28 september 2004 4:19 Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Non-copper WW2 pennies In a message dated 9/27/04 4:40:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: When I was a kid a common science experiment was to take Mercurochrome (2% antiseptic solution) and free the mercury onto a copper penny to make it 'silver'. I understand Mercurochrome no longer contains mercury. Mercury has an affinity for copper. The FDA recommends using a shiny copper penny as a safe way to pick up mercury from a broken thermometer. Thanks Kreigh, That might be why we were warned about putting coins in our mouth. Regardless of the reason, it is not a good idea for kids to put coins in their mouth. I think the story about mercury poison made more sense to kids than warnings about bacteria. Grant From rainforest1950 at lycos.com Tue Sep 28 19:36:27 2004 From: rainforest1950 at lycos.com (rain forest) Date: Tue Sep 28 19:36:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Maps for free Message-ID: <20040929023627.590213384B@ws7-3.us4.outblaze.com> http://nationalatlas.gov/ You can get maps here; taxpayer funded. Scale them as needed. Be advised to check the dtaes as some are outdated. But it's still a very good resource. David Bese The Rainforest Hippie Pt. Orchard, Wa. "There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some reason in madness." "Turbulence is life force. It is opportunity. Let's love turbulence and use it for change." "Every time you don't follow your inner guidance, you feel a loss of energy, loss of power, a sense of spiritual deadness." -- _______________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 From rockcurrier at cs.com Wed Sep 29 02:21:37 2004 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Wed Sep 29 02:19:10 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Coating coins with mercury References: <200409290101.i8T11Ckq000579@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <013001c4a605$b906e2a0$ebe2a5d8@Rock5> In colonial times in South America and Mexico is was a sometimes common practice to coat gold coins with mercury to make them look like silver. I think the rational behind it was that in the market place the owner would appear to have silver coins and not gold ones which were more likely to excite the cupidity of thieves. About ten years ago a friend of mine bought just such a "silver" coin from an antique shop in Lima. Heating the coin drives off the mercury restoring the gold coin to its former golden appearance. Rock From nmartin at bbn.com Wed Sep 29 06:54:24 2004 From: nmartin at bbn.com (Nathan C. Martin II) Date: Wed Sep 29 06:54:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescence of Petalite Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20040929094818.01e16d18@po2.bbn.com> In preparation for a collecting trip to Maine this weekend I am trying to find out what color petalite fluoresces under short wave UV light. I tried a Google search using petalite and fluorescent as key words and although I got a lot of hits none gave me information that seemed reliable. Webmineral.com indicates that it is fluorescent but gives no indication as to color. I also checked in the Robbins book on fluorescent minerals and to my surprise found no mention of petalite. Your help will be appreciated. Nate Martin Lexington, MA From shm at tapnet.net Wed Sep 29 07:35:23 2004 From: shm at tapnet.net (SHM) Date: Wed Sep 29 07:36:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescence of Petalite In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20040929094818.01e16d18@po2.bbn.com> Message-ID: <000501c4a631$ac12fb70$b0e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Good morning Nate, Petalite often doesn't fluoresce at all, or the fluorescence is so very dim that it doesn't help to find it in the field. The usual color of fluorescence is cream to white, and generally it's stronger LW than SW. You'd probably have more success finding it in daylight than in the dark. Cheers- Earl Verbeek (Warren Museum) -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Nathan C. Martin II Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 9:54 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescence of Petalite In preparation for a collecting trip to Maine this weekend I am trying to find out what color petalite fluoresces under short wave UV light. I tried a Google search using petalite and fluorescent as key words and although I got a lot of hits none gave me information that seemed reliable. Webmineral.com indicates that it is fluorescent but gives no indication as to color. I also checked in the Robbins book on fluorescent minerals and to my surprise found no mention of petalite. Your help will be appreciated. Nate Martin Lexington, MA _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Docia1154 at aol.com Wed Sep 29 07:41:31 2004 From: Docia1154 at aol.com (Docia1154@aol.com) Date: Wed Sep 29 07:41:38 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] thunderbay amethyst Message-ID: <1d7.2bd7c6f3.2e8c239b@aol.com> my MIL recently made a trip and collected amethyst and quite a bit of it has a reddish/brown coating on it that they have not been able to remove. Does anyone have any experience with this and what to use to remove this "protective" coating? Thanks, Docia --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tjokela at execulink.com Wed Sep 29 08:00:52 2004 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Wed Sep 29 08:00:52 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] thunderbay amethyst References: <1d7.2bd7c6f3.2e8c239b@aol.com> Message-ID: <001301c4a635$1d222130$6401a8c0@Junior> Oxalic acid will take the clay off; most of the amethyst is included with Fe oxides under the surface and you can't change the brown to purple unless you take a grinder to it... Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] thunderbay amethyst > my MIL recently made a trip and collected amethyst and quite a bit of it has > a reddish/brown coating on it that they have not been able to remove. Does > anyone have any experience with this and what to use to remove this "protective" > coating? > > Thanks, Docia > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Wed Sep 29 08:14:21 2004 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Wed Sep 29 08:09:59 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] thunderbay amethyst In-Reply-To: <1d7.2bd7c6f3.2e8c239b@aol.com> Message-ID: <200409291509.i8TF9uiu023383@bubbleator.drizzle.com> As another note mentions, it's under a layer of quartz. As we say in the computer biz, "that's not a bug, it's a feature!". GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Docia1154@aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 9:42 AM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] thunderbay amethyst > > my MIL recently made a trip and collected amethyst and quite > a bit of it has a reddish/brown coating on it that they have .... From Docia1154 at aol.com Wed Sep 29 09:06:09 2004 From: Docia1154 at aol.com (Docia1154@aol.com) Date: Wed Sep 29 09:06:14 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] thunderbay amethyst Message-ID: <105.522f6ab7.2e8c3771@aol.com> okay, well at least I can tell them that it is there to stay, lol. I know they used oxalic acid and also tried muratic with no luck. Thanks, Docia In a message dated 9/29/2004 10:01:26 AM Central Daylight Time, tjokela@execulink.com writes: Oxalic acid will take the clay off; most of the amethyst is included with Fe oxides under the surface and you can't change the brown to purple unless you take a grinder to it... Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] thunderbay amethyst > my MIL recently made a trip and collected amethyst and quite a bit of it has > a reddish/brown coating on it that they have not been able to remove. Does > anyone have any experience with this and what to use to remove this "protective" > coating? > > Thanks, Docia > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Wed Sep 29 09:18:42 2004 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Wed Sep 29 09:18:45 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescence of Petalite Message-ID: <092920041618.11827.415AE0620006508900002E33216028130207059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Hi Earl, & Rockhounds, I just sent Nate a little answer too, saying what's stated in Henkel. My answer is immediately posting to Rockhounds because I sent it from my USGS address, so it's bouncing to the moderator for review first, not being recognized as from the List. But I'll cc that paragraph here, so now you'll all (eventually) get it twice. Cheers, Pete Nate, I suspect that petalite is a mineral that sometimes, but not always, fluoresces. It's certainly not one of the "most notable" ones. The Henkel Glossary of Fluorescent Minerals (still available for purchase from the Fluorescent Mineral Society; very useful, though certainly not perfect, for this sort of question) says that petalite fl. "cream, white, whitish or grayish yellow, and rarely tan or orange, both LW and SW; also reported as gray-blue and blue-white LW, and pink SW. A pretty wide variety. I'd say to expect it to fl. most often as some tint of cream-white, both LW and SW. Sincerely, Pete Modreski pjmodreski@att.net / pmodreski@usgs.gov -------------- Original message from SHM : -------------- > Good morning Nate, > > Petalite often doesn't fluoresce at all, or the fluorescence is so very dim > that it doesn't help to find it in the field. The usual color of > fluorescence is cream to white, and generally it's stronger LW than SW. > You'd probably have more success finding it in daylight than in the dark. > > Cheers- Earl Verbeek (Warren Museum) > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Nathan C. Martin > II > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 9:54 AM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescence of Petalite > > In preparation for a collecting trip to Maine this weekend I am trying to > find out what color petalite fluoresces under short wave UV light. I tried > a Google search using petalite and fluorescent as key words and although I > got a lot of hits none gave me information that seemed > reliable. Webmineral.com indicates that it is fluorescent but gives no > indication as to color. I also checked in the Robbins book on fluorescent > minerals and to my surprise found no mention of petalite. > > Your help will be appreciated. > > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kqhayes at chartermi.net Wed Sep 29 11:15:28 2004 From: kqhayes at chartermi.net (kqhayes@chartermi.net) Date: Wed Sep 29 11:15:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] thunderbay amethyst Message-ID: <3a57qo$8lks5s@mxip06a.cluster1.charter.net> much of TB amethyst material has some barite (tan, brown, reddish) on the surface as well and penetrating into the crystal. It can be blasted off with high pressure water gun... regards, Keith > > From: "Tim Jokela Jr." > Date: 2004/09/29 Wed PM 03:00:52 GMT > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] thunderbay amethyst > > Oxalic acid will take the clay off; most of the amethyst is included with Fe > oxides under the surface and you can't change the brown to purple unless you > take a grinder to it... > > > Cheers, > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 10:41 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] thunderbay amethyst > > > > my MIL recently made a trip and collected amethyst and quite a bit of it > has > > a reddish/brown coating on it that they have not been able to remove. > Does > > anyone have any experience with this and what to use to remove this > "protective" > > coating? > > > > Thanks, Docia > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From Lapadary at aol.com Wed Sep 29 12:00:13 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Wed Sep 29 12:00:24 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] thunderbay amethyst Message-ID: <5b.5a665bd4.2e8c603d@aol.com> In a message dated 9/29/04 7:42:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Docia1154@aol.com writes: my MIL recently made a trip and collected amethyst and quite a bit of it has a reddish/brown coating on it that they have not been able to remove. Does anyone have any experience with this and what to use to remove this "protective" coating? -------------------------------------------> OK, I'll show my ignorance. What is MIL? For a while it looked like 'significant other' was going to catch on. Then it was abbreviated to SO. The last I heard, a few women changed SO to SOB so the abbreviation lost popularity. Now it is MIL. What next? After 28 years my live in and I dropped back to the traditional husband and wife. However, we are still unlicensed. Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dmschmidt at sprint.ca Wed Sep 29 12:04:16 2004 From: dmschmidt at sprint.ca (michael schmidt) Date: Wed Sep 29 12:04:27 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescence of Petalite References: <5.2.0.9.2.20040929094818.01e16d18@po2.bbn.com> Message-ID: <004b01c4a657$1dc79080$64525318@johnny> Petalite: In LW pale orange (wyoming material) or buff (maine) May be orange in xrays. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nathan C. Martin II" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 6:54 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescence of Petalite > In preparation for a collecting trip to Maine this weekend I am trying to > find out what color petalite fluoresces under short wave UV light. I tried > a Google search using petalite and fluorescent as key words and although I > got a lot of hits none gave me information that seemed > reliable. Webmineral.com indicates that it is fluorescent but gives no > indication as to color. I also checked in the Robbins book on fluorescent > minerals and to my surprise found no mention of petalite. > > Your help will be appreciated. > > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Docia1154 at aol.com Wed Sep 29 12:07:10 2004 From: Docia1154 at aol.com (Docia1154@aol.com) Date: Wed Sep 29 12:07:23 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] thunderbay amethyst Message-ID: <5b.5a66ad39.2e8c61de@aol.com> In a message dated 9/29/2004 2:01:59 PM Central Daylight Time, Lapadary@aol.com writes: What is MIL that would be my dear Mother In Law - and she really is a good one too --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From afox at drizzle.com Wed Sep 29 15:29:31 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Wed Sep 29 15:29:32 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mount St. Helens Message-ID: Well, it sounds like she's (or he; not meaning to be completely sexist...) is ready to pop at any minute: http://www.pnsn.org/HELENS/welcome.html http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Volcanoes/MSH/CurrentActivity Any OR/WA folks planning on heading up to JRO to see things if and when she pops? If so, let me know. I plan on driving down tomorrow or friday if it blows to see what's going on, and I'd love the chance to meet some of you in person. a. -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Sep 29 15:48:09 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Sep 29 15:39:25 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] thunderbay amethyst References: <5b.5a66ad39.2e8c61de@aol.com> Message-ID: <415B3995.7C19@Tomaszewski.net> Docia1154@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 9/29/2004 2:01:59 PM Central Daylight Time, > Lapadary@aol.com writes: > What is MIL > that would be my dear Mother In Law - and she really is a good one too You know you are a rockhound when you see MIL and think of the MAS/MILS database of mine information. From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Sep 29 13:55:23 2004 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Wed Sep 29 15:56:49 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mount St. Helens References: Message-ID: <00ac01c4a666$a8d62ce0$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Hi Aaron, We don't live in the neighborhood any more so we won't be enjoying the show. But what/where is "JRO"? John > Any OR/WA folks planning on heading up to JRO to see things if and when > she pops? From afox at drizzle.com Wed Sep 29 16:33:08 2004 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Wed Sep 29 16:33:09 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mount St. Helens In-Reply-To: <00ac01c4a666$a8d62ce0$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: My bad. The Johnston Ridge Observatory; pretty much the closest view you can get to the plug dome without hiking to the rim of the crater. Named after David Johnston, a USGS volcanologist who was killed during the May 18, 1980 eruption of Mount St. Helens. a. > Hi Aaron, > > We don't live in the neighborhood any more so we won't be enjoying the show. > But what/where is "JRO"? > > John > > > Any OR/WA folks planning on heading up to JRO to see things if and when > > she pops? > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Sep 29 17:13:30 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Sep 29 17:04:31 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mount St. Helens References: <00ac01c4a666$a8d62ce0$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <415B4D8C.360A@Tomaszewski.net> Johnson Ridge Observatory, home of the Mt St Helens Volcano cam http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Volcanos/MSH/VolcanoCam/volcanocam_FAQ.html John Siebel wrote: > > Hi Aaron, > > We don't live in the neighborhood any more so we won't be enjoying the show. > But what/where is "JRO"? > > John > > > Any OR/WA folks planning on heading up to JRO to see things if and when > > she pops? From neilvojr at comcast.net Wed Sep 29 17:18:26 2004 From: neilvojr at comcast.net (Neil) Date: Wed Sep 29 17:21:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Maps for free In-Reply-To: <20040929023627.590213384B@ws7-3.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20040929023627.590213384B@ws7-3.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <415B50D2.9080704@comcast.net> Great free source of information, Thanks for passing it along, David Neil rain forest wrote: >http://nationalatlas.gov/ > >You can get maps here; taxpayer funded. Scale them as needed. Be advised to check the dtaes as some are outdated. But it's still a very good resource. > >David Bese >The Rainforest Hippie >Pt. Orchard, Wa. > >"There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some reason in madness." >"Turbulence is life force. It is opportunity. Let's love turbulence and use it for change." >"Every time you don't follow your inner guidance, you feel a loss of energy, loss of power, a sense of spiritual deadness." > > > From adaml001 at yahoo.com Wed Sep 29 18:18:40 2004 From: adaml001 at yahoo.com (adam larson) Date: Wed Sep 29 18:18:42 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] re Thunder Bay Amethyst Message-ID: <20040930011840.23917.qmail@web52308.mail.yahoo.com> Hi All, Does anyone have any specimens for trade/sale of Thunder Bay amethyst with the yellow fluorites on top? I know this is in reference to a few pieces but you never know. Thanks, Adam Larson Adamsminerals.com _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Sep 29 16:26:56 2004 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Wed Sep 29 18:28:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mount St. Helens References: Message-ID: <00d401c4a67b$d5d96940$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Thanks Aaron, Julie and I spent a lot of time prospecting the small quarries in Gifford Pinchot Natl Forest, east of the National Monument area when we lived in Vancouver, WA. Loads of fun! Quartz plates, calcite, jasper, zeolites and boxes of other goodies that I can't remember because they're packed up and in need of cleaning, IDing and cataloging. I think that we still have quarry info on a CD (also stilled packed) if you're interested. May take a while to find it though. John From rockcurrier at cs.com Wed Sep 29 19:09:56 2004 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Wed Sep 29 19:02:06 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cleaning dirty quartz References: <200409300100.i8U10ueN002250@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <004101c4a692$95a1c720$6901a8c0@rock3> Over the last 40 years I have encountered hundreds of different kinds of quartz and amethyst specimens at various places in the world and been confronted with cleaning them or been asked how to clean them. The first thing you need to do is to determine if they can be cleaned. If the mineral that is degrading (lowering the value) of the quartz is actually inside the quartz, it is a feature of the quartz and you are pretty much stuck with it. In a few cases, if the quartz is naturally frosty on the surface but otherwise transparent or the "dirt" is near but under the surface, you may be able, using lapidary techniques, to grind it away and polish the surface with profitable results. This was the case with the thousands of quartz crystals with good green phantoms that I and a couple of partners mined about 15 years ago from an open cast mine near the little town of Jocaim Felicio (hope my memory of the spelling is approximately correct) in Minas Gerais, Brazil. This was echonomical only because the cost of Brazilian labor and lapidary workers was much less than in the United States. You need to look at the quartz closely and first determine if the "dirt" is on the surface. A binocular scope is a real comfort to have to help with this chore, but if you don't have one handy, a hand lens or even close observation with an eyeball will do. Take a knife blade and with the point, try and scratch the surface of the quartz crystal. (Don't worry, you won't be able to really scratch it.) Then look carefully where you scratched and see if the knife blade has managed to remove the "dirt" and reveal, hopefully, a nice shining quartz crystal face below. If "scratching" with a knife point is successful, then you are in the ball game and you stand a good chance of being able to "clean" the quartz. Perhaps the most common "dirt" people want to remove from quartz are various iron minerals, usually conveniently and commonly described as "iron stains" or limonite. Placing the quartz crystals in a saturated solution of oxalic acid or pool acid will usually get rid of these iron minerals. Before you use these chemicals you should understand the danger that these chemicals represent and the harm they can do if you do not handle them correctly. Some times using these chemicals will precipitate iron oxalate or iron chloride and then you must take further steps to prevent their formation or remove these objectionable yellow chemicals. Sometimes the "dirt" you want to remove will not be easily attacked by oxalic or hydrochloric acid you must resort something like a microabrasive tool that uses fine particles like glass beads to clean the surface of the quartz or a much more dangerous acid, hydrofluoric acid, to clean the specimens. This last acid is very dangerous and you must really know what you are doing when handling this acid or you can injure yourself permanently. Hydrofluoric acid actually attacks the quartz and in time will dissolve it. But sometimes it is the only reagent that will work. If you need to remove massive quartz from around gold crystals to make them more visible you will have to use this acid. Once I used it to clean Japan law twin quartz crystals from Washington Camp, Arizona. They were quite frosty with a thin coating of secondary quartz that concentrated hydrofluoric acid removed beautifully in a couple of hours without diminishing the luster of the quartz twins at all. Rock From rockcurrier at cs.com Wed Sep 29 19:10:05 2004 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Wed Sep 29 19:02:22 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cleaning dirty quartz References: <200409300100.i8U10ueN002250@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <004201c4a692$9bfe3220$6901a8c0@rock3> Over the last 40 years I have encountered hundreds of different kinds of quartz and amethyst specimens at various places in the world and been confronted with cleaning them or been asked how to clean them. The first thing you need to do is to determine if they can be cleaned. If the mineral that is degrading (lowering the value) of the quartz is actually inside the quartz, it is a feature of the quartz and you are pretty much stuck with it. In a few cases, if the quartz is naturally frosty on the surface but otherwise transparent or the "dirt" is near but under the surface, you may be able, using lapidary techniques, to grind it away and polish the surface with profitable results. This was the case with the thousands of quartz crystals with good green phantoms that I and a couple of partners mined about 15 years ago from an open cast mine near the little town of Jocaim Felicio (hope my memory of the spelling is approximately correct) in Minas Gerais, Brazil. This was echonomical only because the cost of Brazilian labor and lapidary workers was much less than in the United States. You need to look at the quartz closely and first determine if the "dirt" is on the surface. A binocular scope is a real comfort to have to help with this chore, but if you don't have one handy, a hand lens or even close observation with an eyeball will do. Take a knife blade and with the point, try and scratch the surface of the quartz crystal. (Don't worry, you won't be able to really scratch it.) Then look carefully where you scratched and see if the knife blade has managed to remove the "dirt" and reveal, hopefully, a nice shining quartz crystal face below. If "scratching" with a knife point is successful, then you are in the ball game and you stand a good chance of being able to "clean" the quartz. Perhaps the most common "dirt" people want to remove from quartz are various iron minerals, usually conveniently and commonly described as "iron stains" or limonite. Placing the quartz crystals in a saturated solution of oxalic acid or pool acid will usually get rid of these iron minerals. Before you use these chemicals you should understand the danger that these chemicals represent and the harm they can do if you do not handle them correctly. Some times using these chemicals will precipitate iron oxalate or iron chloride and then you must take further steps to prevent their formation or remove these objectionable yellow chemicals. Sometimes the "dirt" you want to remove will not be easily attacked by oxalic or hydrochloric acid you must resort something like a microabrasive tool that uses fine particles like glass beads to clean the surface of the quartz or a much more dangerous acid, hydrofluoric acid, to clean the specimens. This last acid is very dangerous and you must really know what you are doing when handling this acid or you can injure yourself permanently. Hydrofluoric acid actually attacks the quartz and in time will dissolve it. But sometimes it is the only reagent that will work. If you need to remove massive quartz from around gold crystals to make them more visible you will have to use this acid. Once I used it to clean Japan law twin quartz crystals from Washington Camp, Arizona. They were quite frosty with a thin coating of secondary quartz that concentrated hydrofluoric acid removed beautifully in a couple of hours without diminishing the luster of the quartz twins at all. Rock From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Wed Sep 29 20:41:32 2004 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Wed Sep 29 20:35:30 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] thunderbay amethyst References: <5b.5a66ad39.2e8c61de@aol.com> Message-ID: <002701c4a69f$66988920$eaa5490c@pete> Thanks, Docia, and I'm glad somebody asked, because I too had no clue what "MIL" meant. I thought maybe it had some vague connection to MAS/MILS, but the context didn't seem to make any sense. Just shows how easy it can be to THINK you are communicating something, I guess! And P.S., let me (sheepishly?) admit too, I see it in emails here but I honestly can't remember what "IMHO" is supposed to mean, either! But's nice that you feel that way, whoever last used that one--whatever it means. [Best I can come up with is, "I'm Merrily Hoarding Opals". But somehow I don't think that's it.] cheers, Pete From Docia1154 at aol.com Wed Sep 29 20:38:40 2004 From: Docia1154 at aol.com (Docia1154@aol.com) Date: Wed Sep 29 20:38:53 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] thunderbay amethyst Message-ID: <1d7.2bef8d69.2e8cd9c0@aol.com> IMHO - In My Humble Opinion In a message dated 9/29/2004 10:36:01 PM Central Daylight Time, pjmodreski@worldnet.att.net writes: Thanks, Docia, and I'm glad somebody asked, because I too had no clue what "MIL" meant. I thought maybe it had some vague connection to MAS/MILS, but the context didn't seem to make any sense. Just shows how easy it can be to THINK you are communicating something, I guess! And P.S., let me (sheepishly?) admit too, I see it in emails here but I honestly can't remember what "IMHO" is supposed to mean, either! But's nice that you feel that way, whoever last used that one--whatever it means. [Best I can come up with is, "I'm Merrily Hoarding Opals". But somehow I don't think that's it.] cheers, Pete --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Sep 29 21:19:03 2004 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Sep 29 21:09:34 2004 Subject: OT: Internet Acrynoms -- was: (Re: [Rockhounds] thunderbay amethyst) References: <5b.5a66ad39.2e8c61de@aol.com> <002701c4a69f$66988920$eaa5490c@pete> Message-ID: <415B86FA.3F91@Tomaszewski.net> Pete, Do a search for "Internet Acronyms" on Google and follow any of the top hits to find out more than you ever wanted to know about obscure terms. Be warned that some acronyms will be offensive to most people. Google is your friend (but some discretion is always advised). Kreigh Peter J. Modreski wrote: > > Thanks, Docia, and I'm glad somebody asked, because I too had no clue what > "MIL" meant. I thought maybe it had some vague connection to MAS/MILS, but > the context didn't seem to make any sense. Just shows how easy it can be to > THINK you are communicating something, I guess! > > And P.S., let me (sheepishly?) admit too, I see it in emails here but I > honestly can't remember what "IMHO" is supposed to mean, either! But's nice > that you feel that way, whoever last used that one--whatever it means. > [Best I can come up with is, "I'm Merrily Hoarding Opals". But somehow I > don't think that's it.] > > cheers, Pete > From JWachsmuth at gmx.de Tue Sep 28 10:50:04 2004 From: JWachsmuth at gmx.de (Juergen Wachsmuth) Date: Thu Sep 30 02:49:57 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral/Geology books References: <000601c49455$6ca68580$6700a8c0@Isabella> <000a01c4a338$7c9a4e80$338f4c0c@fekib> Message-ID: <4159A44C.A5772B08@gmx.de> Dear Larry, may I reserve these books ? Rocks and Minerals- Richard M.Pearl, 1965....................Pearl's classic paperback.Fair condition, ($5) The Evolution of the Igneous Rocks- N.L.Bowen, 1956..............................College paperback technical text, well-used. ($5) New Hampshire Mines and Mineral Localities- P. Morrill, 2nd,edition,1960.............Detailed directions to NH collecting sites, Paperback,good condition,($5) Successful Mineral Collecting and Prospecting- Richard M.Pearl,1962........................Large format peperback, good condition,($5) Minerals Do Brazil- Volumes 2 and 3,1972.....................Illustrated in Portuguese,hardback,very good condition ($5 ea.) As I shall be out of town from October, 14th, it is better to wait with your sending till I am back in november. And maybe you ware going to offer more books I am interested in. Let me know what you think of my suggestion and how to go on (payment etc.) J?rgen Wachsmuth Ulm - Germany Lawrence Rush schrieb: > Well, my wife has convinced (read "nagged") me to start to dispose of some 45 years worth of mineral and geology related books, magazines, texts, circulars, advertisements, etc. ad nauseum. I have started to go through the piles and have reduced them somewhat. Some are in the trash, some to friends, and some are slowly making their way to my web site to sell. I did place the 2 Dana's Systems via the list (thank you, Kreigh and Ronnie!), but have loads more stuff, including a complete set of MRs. The Rocks and Minerals have mostly gone to friends, and I can't yet find the Mineral Digests. I have yet to post the "coffee-table" type picture books. > I have lots of USGS bulletins, and various state circulars, many out of print. No Lapidary Journals. > If anyone likes this kind of stuff (many of the texts are out-of-date, but not yet antiques, unlike me!), check my site occasionally, as I will have to keep at this and post them at times. > > Regards................Larry Rush > > www.connroxminerals.com > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From JWachsmuth at gmx.de Thu Sep 30 03:03:48 2004 From: JWachsmuth at gmx.de (Juergen Wachsmuth) Date: Thu Sep 30 04:46:08 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescence of Petalite References: <5.2.0.9.2.20040929094818.01e16d18@po2.bbn.com> Message-ID: <415BDA04.A52D86B5@gmx.de> Hello, the Henkel glossary is saying "cream, white, whitish or grayish yellow (tan, orange) LW,SW; (gray-blue, blue-white) LW; (pink) SW" I hope this is of some help to you, Regards J?rgen Wachsmuth Ulm - Germany Nathan C. Martin II schrieb: > In preparation for a collecting trip to Maine this weekend I am trying to > find out what color petalite fluoresces under short wave UV light. I tried > a Google search using petalite and fluorescent as key words and although I > got a lot of hits none gave me information that seemed > reliable. Webmineral.com indicates that it is fluorescent but gives no > indication as to color. I also checked in the Robbins book on fluorescent > minerals and to my surprise found no mention of petalite. > > Your help will be appreciated. > > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From mikeflan at earthlink.net Thu Sep 30 08:02:57 2004 From: mikeflan at earthlink.net (Mike Flannigan) Date: Thu Sep 30 08:01:13 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] how do YOU identify minerals? References: <200409280100.i8S10EX4012189@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <415C2021.3CCCB9D9@earthlink.net> Those scrap metal drives also managed to tear up a bunch of our historical heritage. People were eager to tear up the old stuff for pennies per ton. Mike > Remeber all the scerap metal drives of the war to help > our boys. msot of that metal never made it into the > supply chain. Scrap metal is more expensive to make > then form the ore and except for a few rare types. > Most of the scrap just ended up in depots till the > endo fo the war. It was sold off in bulk after wards > and made into new conusmer products. > > The drives was to get the populous behind the ware > effort and the steel pennies helped in that work. > --- Paul Hewitt wrote: > From ahelms at pdx.edu Thu Sep 30 10:20:00 2004 From: ahelms at pdx.edu (ahelms@pdx.edu) Date: Thu Sep 30 10:20:04 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mount St. Helens In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1096564800.415c404088650@webmail.pdx.edu> Hey Aaron, Jason and I wanted to go up so bad, but we had to work today. We've been keeping tabs on it daily though. If you take any pictures would you email them to my person email address? Thanks Aaron and have fun. Alicia Helms PSU - Geology ahelms@pdx.edu Quoting Aaron Fox : > Well, it sounds like she's (or he; not meaning to be completely sexist...) > is ready to pop at any minute: > > http://www.pnsn.org/HELENS/welcome.html > http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Volcanoes/MSH/CurrentActivity > > Any OR/WA folks planning on heading up to JRO to see things if and when > she pops? If so, let me know. I plan on driving down tomorrow or friday if > it blows to see what's going on, and I'd love the chance to meet some of > you in person. > > a. > > -- > afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox > FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your > computer. Press any key to reboot > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From ahelms at pdx.edu Thu Sep 30 10:34:53 2004 From: ahelms at pdx.edu (ahelms@pdx.edu) Date: Thu Sep 30 10:34:56 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mount St. Helens In-Reply-To: <00ac01c4a666$a8d62ce0$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> References: <00ac01c4a666$a8d62ce0$3b00a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <1096565693.415c43bddf888@webmail.pdx.edu> Hi John, The JRO is called the Johnston Ridge Observatory that has a view of directly into the crater of Mt. St. Helens. It's a beautiful view. Alicia Quoting John Siebel : > Hi Aaron, > > We don't live in the neighborhood any more so we won't be enjoying the show. > But what/where is "JRO"? > > John > > > Any OR/WA folks planning on heading up to JRO to see things if and when > > she pops? > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From Lapadary at aol.com Thu Sep 30 16:09:37 2004 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Thu Sep 30 16:09:43 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lakeview to La Pine Oregon Message-ID: <192.2f65b417.2e8dec31@aol.com> Hello list, Within the week I'm going on a road trip to south central Oregon. My wife's family owns a ranch at Fort Klamath. However, I think I'm going up Highway 395 to Lakeview. I know about Davis Creek and we will stop there to pick up a few flakes of obsidian -- but I have a hard time getting excited about using a shovel to find obsidian. Does anyone know any places to explore for rocks between Lakeview and La Pine? Are there any rockshops in that area? I don't have time to go all the way to Fossil but I might squeze in a trip on up to Madris, maybe? On the other hand, if the weather turns bad or we run out of time, we will probably just turn south at La Pine and go back to Klamath Co. I appreciate any advice. Grant Johnston, Chico, CA --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kqhayes at chartermi.net Thu Sep 30 16:53:26 2004 From: kqhayes at chartermi.net (kqhayes@chartermi.net) Date: Thu Sep 30 16:53:29 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] re Thunder Bay Amethyst Message-ID: <391q2v$ag8l5e@mxip18a.cluster1.charter.net> The purple amethyst with yellow fluorite is rather uncommon from Thunder Bay. As far as i know, only one mine produces it. Most of it is destroyed in the blasting. Also, the fluorite often tends to be off-color (pale, clear) even at this mine. I've picked up a few pieces on various trips to Thunder Bay. neat stuff. regards, Keith Hayes > > From: adam larson > Date: 2004/09/30 Thu AM 01:18:40 GMT > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] re Thunder Bay Amethyst > > Hi All, > > Does anyone have any specimens for trade/sale of > Thunder Bay amethyst with the yellow fluorites on top? > I know this is in reference to a few pieces but you > never know. > > Thanks, > > Adam Larson > Adamsminerals.com > > > > _______________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > http://vote.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From hkrocke at sprint.ca Thu Sep 30 20:01:21 2004 From: hkrocke at sprint.ca (HilmarKrocke) Date: Thu Sep 30 20:03:17 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] ABBREVIATIONS Message-ID: my MIL recently made a trip and collected amethyst Any OR/WA folks planning on heading up to JRO to see things if and when she pops? __________________________________________________________________ Well, I still do not know what JRO means. I complained to the list about 3 years ago about the overwhelming usage of silly abbreviations. Nothing has changed. It would be a matter of being considerate, instead of being annoying for everybody to follow common practise. Which is to explain every abbreviation the first time it is used in any text. Example : My MIL ( Mother in Law) recently made a trip. And a good MIL she is. We will see who will be considerate in the future and who will be not. Hilmar --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Thu Sep 30 21:35:47 2004 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Linda Rasmussen) Date: Thu Sep 30 21:35:28 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lakeview to La Pine Oregon References: <192.2f65b417.2e8dec31@aol.com> Message-ID: <000f01c4a770$203163e0$6a5fe842@pavilion> There is a Rock Shop in Lakeview, nice selection and friendly owners. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 5:09 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Lakeview to La Pine Oregon > Hello list, > > Within the week I'm going on a road trip to south central Oregon. My wife's > family owns a ranch at Fort Klamath. However, I think I'm going up Highway > 395 to Lakeview. I know about Davis Creek and we will stop there to pick up a > few flakes of obsidian -- but I have a hard time getting excited about using a > shovel to find obsidian. > > Does anyone know any places to explore for rocks between Lakeview and La > Pine? Are there any rockshops in that area? I don't have time to go all the way > to Fossil but I might squeze in a trip on up to Madris, maybe? > > On the other hand, if the weather turns bad or we run out of time, we will > probably just turn south at La Pine and go back to Klamath Co. I appreciate any > advice. > > Grant Johnston, Chico, CA > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From pmodresk at usgs.gov Wed Sep 29 08:20:15 2004 From: pmodresk at usgs.gov (Peter J Modreski) Date: Tue Oct 5 18:38:11 2004 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescence of Petalite Message-ID: Nate, I suspect that petalite is a mineral that sometimes, but not always, fluoresces. It's certainly not one of the "most notable" ones. The Henkel Glossary of Fluorescent Minerals (still available for purchase from the Fluorescent Mineral Society; very useful, though certainly not perfect, for this sort of question) says that petalite fl. "cream, white, whitish or grayish yellow, and rarely tan or orange, both LW and SW; also reported as gray-blue and blue-white LW, and pink SW. A pretty wide variety. I'd say to expect it to fl. most often as some tint of cream-white, both LW and SW. Sincerely, Pete Modreski pjmodreski@att.net / pmodreski@usgs.gov From: "Nathan C. Martin II" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 7:54 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescence of Petalite > In preparation for a collecting trip to Maine this weekend I am trying to > find out what color petalite fluoresces under short wave UV light. I tried > a Google search using petalite and fluorescent as key words and although I > got a lot of hits none gave me information that seemed > reliable. Webmineral.com indicates that it is fluorescent but gives no > indication as to color. I also checked in the Robbins book on fluorescent > minerals and to my surprise found no mention of petalite. > > Your help will be appreciated. > > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA ****************************************** Peter J. Modreski U.S. Geological Survey, Denver, Colorado Central Region Office of Communications Events and Community Relations - Geologic Outreach & Education and Geologic Specialist for Abrasives, Gemstones, Quartz, Beryllium, Cesium, and Rubidium USGS, MS 150 Box 25046, Federal Center Denver, CO 80225-0046 tel. 303-202-4766, fax 303-202-4767 email pmodreski@usgs.gov SCIENCE FOR A CHANGING WORLD http://www.usgs.gov http://ask.usgs.gov ****************************************** --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html ---