From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Fri Apr 1 03:38:58 2005 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Fri Apr 1 04:05:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] SHAPE Programme Message-ID: <000401c536b3$0d18eb70$014127c4@privatehome> Hi List, I am looking for information on what latest version of the SHAPE computer drawing system for crystals is on the market and itif it is still avalable. Is there perhaps any similar programme on the market? Name, what price and supplier please. Horst --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From DOMMELEN at DAL.CA Fri Apr 1 05:05:16 2005 From: DOMMELEN at DAL.CA (Ronnie Van Dommelen) Date: Fri Apr 1 05:05:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] SHAPE Programme In-Reply-To: <000401c536b3$0d18eb70$014127c4@privatehome> References: <000401c536b3$0d18eb70$014127c4@privatehome> Message-ID: <1112360716.424d470cc8c7f@my1.dal.ca> Horst, They have a website with all of their products and prices: http://www.shapesoftware.com/ There is another program that I have used called Crystal.m. It works with Mathematica which you might have access to. I believe it has fewer features than Shape but still does quite a bit and being in Mathematica you can program around it if you like. http://www.joerg-enderlein.de/crystal/crystal.html Ronnie Quoting Horst Windisch : > Hi List, > > I am looking for information on what latest version of the SHAPE computer > drawing system for crystals is on the market and itif it is still avalable. > > Is there perhaps any similar programme on the market? Name, what price and > supplier please. > > Horst > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From albalmer at att.net Fri Apr 1 08:12:25 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Fri Apr 1 08:12:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mark Liccini In-Reply-To: <6153E802-A24E-11D9-9EC4-000A95773806@mindspring.com> References: <6153E802-A24E-11D9-9EC4-000A95773806@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <424D72E9.2010608@att.net> Carol J. Bova wrote: > Hi Al, > Our adventuring friend is alive and well! He's settled down a bit, > married and has a little boy now. I just had a note from him the other > night. I owe him a reply, so I'll see if anything's happening on the > writing front and let you know. > Carol > Thanks for the update. Hmmm... I wonder just what "settling down" means for him? > Carol J. Bova > The Eclectic Lapidary > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com > > > On Thursday, March 31, 2005, at 06:12 PM, Al Balmer wrote: > >> Carol, as long as we're reminiscing, what's the story on Justice >> Malanot? Is he still wandering around Africa and writing fabulous >> stories? Has he ever published a book? >> From pbhewitt at comcast.net Fri Apr 1 08:35:24 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul Hewitt) Date: Fri Apr 1 08:35:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] making citrine References: <424C4D7B.80808@att.net> Message-ID: <000f01c536d8$ce4ebe30$6501a8c0@maingear> Thanks to all that responded to my query. I checked out www.liccini.com and it is now www.minedirect.com. According to that website amethyst must be heated to 450 C but does not specify how long. That is 842 F which is way beyond my conventional oven. If people are doing it with wood in a barrel it must take a LONG time! I might just experiment with a couple of small pieces of amethyst in the oven to see what will happen though it probably wont be worth the cost of the electricity to do it. Paul in Marietta ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Balmer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:20 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] making citrine > Hans Durstling wrote: >> Hi Paul, >> >> Try to locate the remnants (or perhaps the whole thing, I have not seen >> it myself) of the late Mark Liccini's web site, which was I believe >> www.liccini.com. Mark had quite comprehensive information on the >> temperatures and durations of a whole variety of heat treatments. My >> understanding is that the site can still be accessed, either through a >> web archiving service, or by virtue of the site's having been taken over >> and carried on by someone else. The caveat is this is what I've been >> told. I've not gone looking for it myself; my information may no longer >> be accurate, and if it is, it may take some research by someone more net >> savvy than myself to find the it. >> > This URL now re-directs to http://www.minedirect.com/ .There is only a > little treatment information there, but the treatment page says "under > construction", so there may be more coming. It might be worthwhile > contacting the Mine Direct people to see if they have Mark's material > available in some other form. > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From jr50wv at yahoo.com Fri Apr 1 09:03:22 2005 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Fri Apr 1 09:03:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] longevity of stone Message-ID: <20050401170322.86361.qmail@web41004.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all: We're preparing to select and order a memorial stone for a family cemetary plot. What stone, available from a standard commercial stoneyard, would you recommend, from the point of longevity? We're interested in carving the names/dates of family members so that the information is available for genealogical purposes long into the future. I know limestone and marble stones can erode away pretty fast, I've seen this in old cemetaries all over. Granite also erodes away sooner than you might think. Should we look for a really fine-grained granite, or perhaps an Indiana buff sandstone? The Indiana sandstone is cemented with quartz, isn't it? You economic geologists, pitch in on this conversation, please! Thanks, JR --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Fri Apr 1 09:22:44 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Apr 1 09:22:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Thunderegg definition In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.1.2.2.20050331093422.026253e0@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050401092132.026bf3e0@mail.spiritone.com> If Paul is not correct then I don't know who is. He has the support of three German geologists. No one in the US seems to care :( At 08:08 PM 3/31/2005, you wrote: >Whether or not Paul Colburn's account is correct in every respect, it is >CERTAINLY the case that neither thundereggs nor geodes are in any sense >"volcanic projectiles!" What we know as "volcanic bombs" ARE "projectiles." > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tim Fisher > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:34 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Thunderegg definition > > > Just a comment: #1 is incorrect. See Paul Colburn's excellent material on > thunderegg formation at http://www.zianet.com/geodekid/whatarel.htm : > > Commonly known as thundereggs, lithophysae (Latin for "rock bubbles") > originate as spheroids drawn from the rhyolite into the immiscible > components of co-eruptive rhyolite-perlite lava flows and domes. Portions > of rhyolite are pulled by turbulence or buoyancy from the parent rhyolite > into the perlite, forming spheres which, as temperatures drop to a > critical > point, crystallize, driving dissolved gases out of solution. Over many > millions of years, the hollow lithophysae fill with silica-laden water > through fill-tubes in their surfaces, silicifying their rhyolite shells, > and decomposing the perlite surrounding them. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From rower at start.no Fri Apr 1 10:08:52 2005 From: rower at start.no (Ronald Werner) Date: Fri Apr 1 10:10:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: new list with rare platinoids Message-ID: <1112378932.424d8e349919d@epost.start.no> Hi, We have received a new supply of platinoids. You can download the new list at: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/rare.microminerals/platinoids.html Other special offers you will find at: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/rare.microminerals/special.html We hope to be of service to you. Albert & Marianne Schrander Hettinga France ------------------------------------------------------------ F? din egen @start.no-adresse gratis p? http://www.start.no/ From albalmer at att.net Fri Apr 1 10:21:57 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Fri Apr 1 10:22:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] making citrine In-Reply-To: <000f01c536d8$ce4ebe30$6501a8c0@maingear> References: <424C4D7B.80808@att.net> <000f01c536d8$ce4ebe30$6501a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <424D9145.9050901@att.net> Paul Hewitt wrote: > Thanks to all that responded to my query. I checked out www.liccini.com > and it is now www.minedirect.com. According to that website amethyst > must be heated to 450 C but does not specify how long. That is 842 F > which is way beyond my conventional oven. If people are doing it with > wood in a barrel it must take a LONG time! I might just experiment with > a couple of small pieces of amethyst in the oven to see what will happen > though it probably wont be worth the cost of the electricity to do it. > If you have a self-cleaning oven, you might try putting it in through a cleaning cycle. I seem to remember that the cleaning cycle runs at about 900F. Don't use anything valuable ;-) From rik.dillen at skynet.be Fri Apr 1 11:20:07 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Fri Apr 1 11:20:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] making citrine In-Reply-To: <424D9145.9050901@att.net> Message-ID: <200504011920.j31JK8iH026043@outmx010.isp.belgacom.be> Hi all, I don't want to offend anyone on the list, but IMHO things are being mixed up a little bit. By heating amethyst you won't get any citrine in mineralogical terms. You would get just "burned amethyst", which is not to be considered as a mineral anymore. At our show anyway it is strictly forbidden to use the name "citrine" for this synthetic kind of material, because people that are not knowledgeable enough are often confused by the improper use of terms. The use of appropriate terminology is already complex enough. BTW I would label amethyst as "Quartz, var. amethyst". Mineralogically it is quartz after all, no less, no more. I'm wondering anyway why people want to change a nice amethyst into some brownish stuff loosing all its natural beauty. OK, boys (and girls), I know that some of you will disagree with my opinion, which I appreciate. I just have my opinion on this matter, no intention to get a flame war started :>)) Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ From bova at mindspring.com Fri Apr 1 12:08:58 2005 From: bova at mindspring.com (Carol J. Bova) Date: Fri Apr 1 12:04:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] longevity of stone In-Reply-To: <20050401170322.86361.qmail@web41004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: How about a former cemetery manager's opinion? *g* I worked with a 150 year old cemetery in L.A. The marble markers literally were dissolving to the point of illegibility from the older burials. Even brand new marble benches showed etching from the rain in less than a year. So unless it's indoors, I don't recommend marble to anyone for a memorial. I'm curious why you think granite doesn't hold up over time? My experience was that a good professonal cleaning restored any of the old ones we worked with to like-new appearance, especially in hard-water areas that are irrigated. The only damage I've seen was occasional minor spalling on the edges, which was more likely from the way the stone was handled and polished, than the intrinsic nature of the granite, and it never went anywhere near the lettering. Other than Blue Pearl (which is a type of labradorite, from Norway) http://www.chooseby.com/mar_dett.php?cod_mar=2707 I don't think there's much else readily available other than marble and granite in the way of commercial monuments. Feel free to contact me offline if you have other concerns. I have some good friends in the monument business who would be happy to provide more information. Carol Carol J. Bova The Eclectic Lapidary http://www.eclecticlapidary.com On Friday, April 1, 2005, at 12:03 PM, J. R. Hodel wrote: > Hi all: > > We're preparing to select and order a memorial stone for a family > cemetary plot. What stone, available from a standard commercial > stoneyard, would you recommend, from the point of longevity? > > We're interested in carving the names/dates of family members so that > the information is available for genealogical purposes long into the > future. I know limestone and marble stones can erode away pretty > fast, I've seen this in old cemetaries all over. Granite also erodes > away sooner than you might think. > > Should we look for a really fine-grained granite, or perhaps an > Indiana buff sandstone? The Indiana sandstone is cemented with > quartz, isn't it? > > You economic geologists, pitch in on this conversation, please! > > Thanks, > > JR From jpjunk at mc.net Fri Apr 1 12:56:07 2005 From: jpjunk at mc.net (jjunkroski) Date: Fri Apr 1 12:58:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] longevity of stone In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here in Illinois I've seen a beautiful red and black augen gneiss, which I am told is the well-known "Morton Gneiss", one of the oldest rocks on the continent. It is used to face a number of large commercial buildings in downtown Chicago, where the pollution level must be very high, as well as for grave markers, and it appears to be very resistant. Another thought... how about bronze? Think of ancient archeological finds including buried coins which are still legible. "Junk" John Junkroski on 4/1/05 2:08 PM, Carol J. Bova at bova@mindspring.com wrote: > How about a former cemetery manager's opinion? *g* > > I worked with a 150 year old cemetery in L.A. The marble markers > literally were dissolving to the point of illegibility from the older > burials. Even brand new marble benches showed etching from the rain in > less than a year. So unless it's indoors, I don't recommend marble to > anyone for a memorial. > > I'm curious why you think granite doesn't hold up over time? My > experience was that a good professonal cleaning restored any of the old > ones we worked with to like-new appearance, especially in hard-water > areas that are irrigated. The only damage I've seen was occasional > minor spalling on the edges, which was more likely from the way the > stone was handled and polished, than the intrinsic nature of the > granite, and it never went anywhere near the lettering. > > Other than Blue Pearl (which is a type of labradorite, from Norway) > http://www.chooseby.com/mar_dett.php?cod_mar=2707 > I don't think there's much else readily available other than marble and > granite in the way of commercial monuments. > > Feel free to contact me offline if you have other concerns. I have some > good friends in the monument business who would be happy to provide > more information. > Carol > > Carol J. Bova > The Eclectic Lapidary > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com > > > > On Friday, April 1, 2005, at 12:03 PM, J. R. Hodel wrote: > >> Hi all: >> >> We're preparing to select and order a memorial stone for a family >> cemetary plot. What stone, available from a standard commercial >> stoneyard, would you recommend, from the point of longevity? >> >> We're interested in carving the names/dates of family members so that >> the information is available for genealogical purposes long into the >> future. I know limestone and marble stones can erode away pretty >> fast, I've seen this in old cemetaries all over. Granite also erodes >> away sooner than you might think. >> >> Should we look for a really fine-grained granite, or perhaps an >> Indiana buff sandstone? The Indiana sandstone is cemented with >> quartz, isn't it? >> >> You economic geologists, pitch in on this conversation, please! >> >> Thanks, >> >> JR > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From MCGINNISG at aol.com Fri Apr 1 13:02:20 2005 From: MCGINNISG at aol.com (MCGINNISG@aol.com) Date: Fri Apr 1 13:02:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Billionaire Bill Gates Buys Rockhound Website: Drizzle.Com Message-ID: <148.41a569f2.2f7f10dc@aol.com> April Fool... --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny at lrream.com Fri Apr 1 14:34:04 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Fri Apr 1 14:32:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] making citrine In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050331181338.02630368@incoming.verizon.net> References: <006f01c5356c$4a696b50$6401a8c0@Dri> <424B19F6.6030308@azgs.az.gov> <000901c53613$e023d390$6501a8c0@maingear> <424C9EEC.4000901@cksonline.net> <6.2.1.2.0.20050331181338.02630368@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <274D88A2-A2FE-11D9-B858-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi Kitty, I was thinking that I had read somewhere a specific description as to how/why the Bolivian ametrine crystals formed, but can't find it. The closest thing I found was in an article by Werner Lieber on on twinning (Twins, Crystal Curiosities: Rocks & Minerals Sept.-Oct. 1999, Vol. 74-#5, p. 300-307). Although he doesn't address the issue as to why it forms, he does include an illustration of a cross section of an ametrine crystal used to illustrate the twinning of the amethyst. Nearly all amethyst shows Brazil law twinning. Brazil twinning is a type of penetration twinning that produces lamellae. You can see this in amethyst by the multitude of thin layers of lighter and darker colors. The photographs of the ametrine crystal cross section shows the twinning (lamellae) of the amethyst, but the alternating citrine sections have no twinning. Quartz crystallizes in the trigonal class of the rhombohedral subsection of the hexagonal system. Thus a quartz crystal is composed of two intergrown sets of 3 sections, the alternating + and - rhombs. With that in mind, it looks like in ametrine, one set crystallized with the Brazil twinning and amethyst, and the alternate set without the Brazil twinning and a citrine color. Regards, Lanny On Mar 31, 2005, at 8:28 PM, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > We are going to display our ignorance here, but can someone explain > what is involved with citrine being created by heating? Bill says he > is making a WAG that the color of amethyst is caused by iron, and that > heating will cause a change from ferric to ferrous---or vice > versa---by a process of oxidation or reduction (not sure which) of the > iron in the quartz. He says PDLTL (Please don't laugh too loud). > > I also would like to know what happens in nature to make it possible > for citrine and amethyst to occur together. I have a piece that was > called "ametrine" because one half of it is amethyst, and the other > half citrine, and the line between the two colors is absolutely > sharp---no blending at all. And if my question is dumb, I'll say > PDLTL also. > > Aloha, Kitty > > > At 03:07 PM 3/31/2005, you wrote: >> Paul Hewitt wrote: >> >>> I have read that citrine can be created by heating amethyst for >>> awhile. What I have been unable to find is how hot you have to get >>> it and for how long. Is it something that can be done in a >>> conventional oven or do you need something like a ceramic kiln? >> The garimpeiros at the amethyst mine at Alto Bonita, close to me here >> in Para, Brasil, layer amethyst with charcoal and then set fire to >> the lot, in a 45 gal. drum. Not the most controlled way to make >> citrine, but the amethyst from this location is noted for making >> nicely deep yellow citrines. I believe this was mentioned on the >> site of the late Mark Liccini as mentioned by others. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From SMKELL45 at aol.com Fri Apr 1 14:48:27 2005 From: SMKELL45 at aol.com (SMKELL45@aol.com) Date: Fri Apr 1 14:48:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Aluminum crystals Message-ID: E-bay has been auctioning off Natural Aluminum crystals. They call them natural. Are these "nature" in the same way as are those Bismuth crystals with the hoppered forms? smkell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Fri Apr 1 15:25:38 2005 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Fri Apr 1 15:25:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Aluminum crystals In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <424DD872.6030001@xs4all.nl> We had the same discussion on Mindat: http://www.mindat.org/msg-6-3151-3151.html SMKELL45@aol.com wrote: >E-bay has been auctioning off Natural Aluminum crystals. They call them >natural. Are these "nature" in the same way as are those Bismuth crystals with >the hoppered forms? smkell > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From geenet2 at mchsi.com Fri Apr 1 17:17:50 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Fri Apr 1 17:17:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Home made diamonds Message-ID: <008201c53721$c9bf19c0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Home Diamond Synthesis by Steve Russell, Member of Colorado Springs Mineralogical Society sprussell@... A fascinating event happened while I was attending the Tucson Show last year. I was in the room of Brazilian mineral dealer Joaquin Stick, and noticed a number of very nice, rather large diamond crystals for sale. When I inquired about them, I was introduced to an elderly gentleman sitting in the corner. This fascinating man was Professor Ilmeno Rutille, originally a professor of chemistry at the University of Bologna in Italy, but who had spent most of his professional career working for General Electric in their Diamond Synthesis Lab. Professor Rutille had synthesized all the diamond specimens I had seen in a laboratory in his home! I spent a very pleasant hour talking to this amazing man, and when I returned home, I began an e-mail correspondence with him. I?m afraid I pestered him for several months with questions about how these diamond crystals were grown, and finally he relented, saying he would show me the process if I would travel to his home laboratory in the mountains near Oakley, Kansas. It was late May when I arrived at Professor Rutille?s home, and after introducing me to his wife, he took me to his laboratory located behind his garage. I was immediately struck by the lack of large, sophisticated equipment one would expect to find in a lab capable of synthesizing diamonds. I asked Prof. Rutille where he made his diamonds, as there was not a single piece of technical equipment in the place. ?That is exactly why I asked you here,? he replied, ?Please sit down,? and he pointed to two chairs against the wall. We sat down, and he handed me some papers. ?It?s all explained here,? he said. While I looked at the papers, Prof. Rutille told a fascinating story. The early attempts to synthesize diamonds at the GE labs were a trial and error effort that did not succeed until it was discovered that with existing equipment, a catalyst was necessary to lower the temperature and pressure at which diamonds form. An amino acid present in animal muscle and fat tissue turned out to be the key. This was discovered when a technician was preparing samples to go into the furnace while eating a ham sandwich. A bit of ham contaminated the sample, but the technician went ahead with the test. The result was a diamond?small and very poor quality?but a diamond. This amino acid catalyst has been kept a secret ever since. The story continues in the 1980s when Prof. Rutille began work on a project in the GE Synthetic Stones Lab to synthesize elbaite tourmaline. The scientists added various metals to the chemical structure to change the color of the crystals. The results were disappointing, except in the case of copper. Adding copper produced a ?cuprian elbaite? of a beautiful, but rather unbelievable, teal blue color. Further research was discontinued because his superiors felt that gems cut from this material looked ?fake.? Prof. Rutille kept about half of the few hundred crystals produced, sending the rest to a mineral dealer friend in Paraiba, Brazil. Prof. Rutille wondered if copper might also produce a blue color in diamonds, and began a series of tests. The attempt to produce blue diamonds failed, but he found that the copper even more drastically reduced the temperature and pressure necessary to produce a diamond. In fact, a pressure of 650 pounds per square inch and a temperature of 112 degrees Fahrenheit were all that was necessary. This could be produced in a home laboratory! Prof. Rutille began to produce his own diamonds in his home lab, and those were the crystals I saw in Tucson. Prof. Rutille assured me that he would have grown rich selling diamond and never would have told me the details of how these diamonds were made if he had not been threatened by agents from GE and the De Beers Corporation a few weeks before my visit. He was so angry with his former employer that he asked me to publish his findings so that people everywhere could reproduce his results. I agreed, and below are instructions for synthesizing diamonds in your home or garage! Preparing the Sample copper pipe (the pipe and end caps are available at any home improvement center). Into the open end of the pipe, place 1.75 grams of the lunchmeat. This will provide the amino acid catalyst. Using a hammer or other tool, crumble the charcoal briquette into pieces small enough to fit into the copper pipe. Add exactly 4.2 grams of charcoal briquette, packing lightly with your finger (Photo 2). Note: DO NOT use briquettes with lighter fluid in them as this will contaminate the sample and cause a risk of fire or explosion! Add another 1.75 grams of lunchmeat on top of the packed charcoal briquette. Place the other end cap on the open end of the copper pipe, creating an enclosed container. Cut two round pieces of masking tape to fit the ends of the end caps, and place one piece of tape on each end cap (this will insulate the copper container from the jaws of the vice) (Photo 3). Creating the Diamond Note: Gloves and safety glasses should be worn during this step of the procedure! Place the copper container in the jaws of a large, heavy duty vice, one end cap against each jaw of the vice, and tighten enough to hold the container in place (Photo 4). Lay an accurate ruler across the top of the vice. It is necessary to close the vice one eighth of an inch to produce the necessary pressure. First, the container must be heated. Using the blow dryer on ?high? setting, heat the container for a minimum of two minutes. Now, while continuing to heat the container, begin to close the vice, slowly. Some effort will be required, but continue closing the vice until you have collapsed the container one eighth of an inch. Continue to heat the container with the blow dryer for a minimum of four more minutes. Don?t be surprised if you feel yourself getting hungry?it does smell like barbeque! After four minutes, the blow dryer may be turned off. Allow the container to cool for 30 minutes. Using a hacksaw, cut the container in half and remove your diamond! I know this leaves one question: What type of lunch-meat to use? I have experimented with several types, and I achieved my best results using pure baloney. Original Editor's note: If you are excited by the potential that the above article details, I recommend that you reevaluate the article. It is April, after all. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Fri Apr 1 17:46:27 2005 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Apr 1 17:46:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] making citrine References: <424C4D7B.80808@att.net> <000f01c536d8$ce4ebe30$6501a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <006d01c53725$c94d2140$6701a8c0@GlennWimpee> Try putting your small amethyst specimen in a coffee or veggie can and fill with sand. Then put it, can and all, in a charcoal grill, surround with a thick (at least 2-3 brickettes all around) layer of charcoal and light the stuff. Be sure the can is completely surrounded with charcoal. Charcoal burns real hot, maybe someone on the list knows the actual temp. Cook a good steak on the grill and enjoy. Let the can of sand and amethyst stay till the charcoal burns completely and the whole grill and the sand cools. Carefully open the can. Observe and report to us on the list. And I did NOT stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Hewitt" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 10:35 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] making citrine > Thanks to all that responded to my query. I checked out www.liccini.com > and it is now www.minedirect.com. According to that website amethyst must > be heated to 450 C but does not specify how long. That is 842 F which is > way beyond my conventional oven. If people are doing it with wood in a > barrel it must take a LONG time! I might just experiment with a couple of > small pieces of amethyst in the oven to see what will happen though it > probably wont be worth the cost of the electricity to do it. > > Paul in Marietta > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Al Balmer" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:20 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] making citrine > > >> Hans Durstling wrote: >>> Hi Paul, >>> >>> Try to locate the remnants (or perhaps the whole thing, I have not seen >>> it myself) of the late Mark Liccini's web site, which was I believe >>> www.liccini.com. Mark had quite comprehensive information on the >>> temperatures and durations of a whole variety of heat treatments. My >>> understanding is that the site can still be accessed, either through a >>> web archiving service, or by virtue of the site's having been taken over >>> and carried on by someone else. The caveat is this is what I've been >>> told. I've not gone looking for it myself; my information may no longer >>> be accurate, and if it is, it may take some research by someone more net >>> savvy than myself to find the it. >>> >> This URL now re-directs to http://www.minedirect.com/ .There is only a >> little treatment information there, but the treatment page says "under >> construction", so there may be more coming. It might be worthwhile >> contacting the Mine Direct people to see if they have Mark's material >> available in some other form. >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From bova at mindspring.com Fri Apr 1 18:03:10 2005 From: bova at mindspring.com (Carol J. Bova) Date: Fri Apr 1 17:58:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] making citrine In-Reply-To: <006d01c53725$c94d2140$6701a8c0@GlennWimpee> Message-ID: <5CE8F024-A31B-11D9-9EC4-000A95773806@mindspring.com> Interesting idea, Glenn. If charcoal burns at temps in excess of 1100F.. would the sand keep the temps too high? http://www.montana.edu/wwwpb/pubs/mt8405.html Carol Carol J. Bova The Eclectic Lapidary http://www.eclecticlapidary.com On Friday, April 1, 2005, at 08:46 PM, Glenn Wimpee wrote: > Try putting your small amethyst specimen in a coffee or veggie can and > fill with sand. Then put it, can and all, in a charcoal grill, > surround with a thick (at least 2-3 brickettes all around) layer of > charcoal and light the stuff. Be sure the can is completely surrounded > with charcoal. Charcoal burns real hot, maybe someone on the list > knows the actual temp. > Cook a good steak on the grill and enjoy. > Let the can of sand and amethyst stay till the charcoal burns > completely and the whole grill and the sand cools. > Carefully open the can. Observe and report to us on the list. > And I did NOT stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. > > Glenn > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Hewitt" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 10:35 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] making citrine > > >> Thanks to all that responded to my query. I checked out >> www.liccini.com and it is now www.minedirect.com. According to that >> website amethyst must be heated to 450 C but does not specify how >> long. That is 842 F which is way beyond my conventional oven. If >> people are doing it with wood in a barrel it must take a LONG time! >> I might just experiment with a couple of small pieces of amethyst in >> the oven to see what will happen though it probably wont be worth the >> cost of the electricity to do it. >> >> Paul in Marietta From ki3u at hotmail.com Fri Apr 1 18:38:17 2005 From: ki3u at hotmail.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Fri Apr 1 18:38:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Home made diamonds Message-ID: But, there is still the question of what actually DOES result when such an experimental procedure is tried, especially on an April 1st. Berj >From: "Jeanette Wimpee" >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Home made diamonds >Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 19:17:50 -0600 > > >Home Diamond Synthesis >by Steve Russell, Member of Colorado Springs >Mineralogical Society >sprussell@... > >A fascinating event happened while I was attending the >Tucson Show last year. I was in the room of Brazilian >mineral dealer Joaquin Stick, and noticed a number of >very nice, rather large diamond crystals for sale. When I >inquired about them, I was introduced to an elderly >gentleman sitting in the corner. This fascinating man was >Professor Ilmeno Rutille, originally a professor of >chemistry at the University of Bologna in Italy, but who >had spent most of his professional career working for >General Electric in their Diamond Synthesis Lab. >Professor Rutille had synthesized all the diamond >specimens I had seen in a laboratory in his home! > >I spent a very pleasant hour talking to this amazing man, >and when I returned home, I began an e-mail >correspondence with him. I?m afraid I pestered him for >several months with questions about how these diamond >crystals were grown, and finally he relented, saying he >would show me the process if I would travel to his home >laboratory in the mountains near Oakley, Kansas. > >It was late May when I arrived at Professor Rutille?s >home, and after introducing me to his wife, he took me to >his laboratory located behind his garage. I was >immediately struck by the lack of large, sophisticated >equipment one would expect to find in a lab capable of >synthesizing diamonds. > >I asked Prof. Rutille where he made his diamonds, as >there was not a single piece of technical equipment in >the place. ?That is exactly why I asked you here,? he >replied, ?Please sit down,? and he pointed to two chairs >against the wall. We sat down, and he handed me some >papers. ?It?s all explained here,? he said. While I looked >at the papers, Prof. Rutille told a fascinating story. > >The early attempts to synthesize diamonds at the GE >labs were a trial and error effort that did not succeed until >it was discovered that with existing equipment, a catalyst >was necessary to lower the temperature and pressure at >which diamonds form. An amino acid present in animal >muscle and fat tissue turned out to be the key. This was >discovered when a technician was preparing samples to >go into the furnace while eating a ham sandwich. A bit of >ham contaminated the sample, but the technician went >ahead with the test. The result was a diamond?small >and very poor quality?but a diamond. This amino acid >catalyst has been kept a secret ever since. > >The story continues in the 1980s when Prof. Rutille >began work on a project in the GE Synthetic Stones Lab >to synthesize elbaite tourmaline. The scientists added >various metals to the chemical structure to change the >color of the crystals. The results were disappointing, >except in the case of copper. Adding copper produced a >?cuprian elbaite? of a beautiful, but rather unbelievable, >teal blue color. Further research was discontinued because >his superiors felt that gems cut from this material >looked ?fake.? Prof. Rutille kept about half of the few >hundred crystals produced, sending the rest to a mineral >dealer friend in Paraiba, Brazil. > >Prof. Rutille wondered if copper might also produce a >blue color in diamonds, and began a series of tests. The >attempt to produce blue diamonds failed, but he found >that the copper even more drastically reduced the >temperature and pressure necessary to produce a >diamond. In fact, a pressure of 650 pounds per square >inch and a temperature of 112 degrees Fahrenheit were >all that was necessary. This could be produced in a >home laboratory! Prof. Rutille began to produce his own >diamonds in his home lab, and those were the crystals I >saw in Tucson. > >Prof. Rutille assured me that he would have grown rich >selling diamond and never would have told me the >details of how these diamonds were made if he had not >been threatened by agents from GE and the De Beers >Corporation a few weeks before my visit. He was so >angry with his former employer that he asked me to >publish his findings so that people everywhere could >reproduce his results. I agreed, and below are >instructions for synthesizing diamonds in your home or >garage! > >Preparing the Sample > >copper pipe (the pipe and end caps are available at any >home improvement center). Into the open end of the >pipe, place 1.75 grams of the lunchmeat. This will >provide the amino acid catalyst. Using a hammer or other >tool, crumble the charcoal briquette into pieces small >enough to fit into the copper pipe. Add exactly 4.2 grams >of charcoal briquette, packing lightly with your finger >(Photo 2). Note: DO NOT use briquettes with lighter fluid >in them as this will contaminate the sample and cause a >risk of fire or explosion! Add another 1.75 grams of >lunchmeat on top of the packed charcoal briquette. Place >the other end cap on the open end of the copper pipe, >creating an enclosed container. Cut two round pieces of >masking tape to fit the ends of the end caps, and place >one piece of tape on each end cap (this will insulate the >copper container from the jaws of the vice) (Photo 3). > >Creating the Diamond >Note: Gloves and safety glasses should be worn during >this step of the procedure! Place the copper container >in the jaws of a large, heavy duty vice, one end cap >against each jaw of the vice, and tighten enough to >hold the container in place (Photo 4). Lay an accurate >ruler across the top of the vice. It is necessary to close >the vice one eighth of an inch to produce the >necessary pressure. First, the container must be >heated. Using the blow dryer on ?high? setting, heat >the container for a minimum of two minutes. Now, while >continuing to heat the container, begin to close the >vice, slowly. Some effort will be required, but continue >closing the vice until you have collapsed the >container one eighth of an inch. Continue to heat the >container with the blow dryer for a minimum of four >more minutes. Don?t be surprised if you feel yourself >getting hungry?it does smell like barbeque! After >four minutes, the blow dryer may be turned off. Allow the >container to cool for 30 minutes. Using a hacksaw, >cut the container in half and remove your diamond! > >I know this leaves one question: What type of lunch-meat >to use? I have experimented with several types, and I >achieved my best results using pure baloney. > >Original Editor's note: If you are excited by the >potential that the above article details, I recommend that >you reevaluate the article. It is April, after all. > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at verizon.net Fri Apr 1 20:45:54 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Apr 1 20:46:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Pope (off topic) Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050401183520.02647d28@incoming.verizon.net> Bill and I want to express sympathy to Catholics on the list for their anguish tonight regarding the impending death of Pope John Paul II. One doesn't have to be Catholic to appreciate the man. Aloha nui loa, Kitty From MCGINNISG at aol.com Fri Apr 1 21:57:01 2005 From: MCGINNISG at aol.com (MCGINNISG@aol.com) Date: Fri Apr 1 21:57:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Water Lily Jasper Message-ID: Anyone have any information about Water Lily Jasper found near Madras Oregon? Thank you Timm --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From geenet2 at mchsi.com Fri Apr 1 22:48:05 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Fri Apr 1 22:48:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Home made diamonds References: Message-ID: <017a01c5374f$ec7ff500$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> charcoal....same as on April 2nd.... Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Berj N. Ensanian" To: Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 8:38 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fw: Home made diamonds > > But, there is still the question of what actually DOES result when such an > experimental procedure is tried, especially on an April 1st. > > Berj > > >>From: "Jeanette Wimpee" >>Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>collectors" >>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>collectors" >>Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Home made diamonds >>Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 19:17:50 -0600 >> >> >>Home Diamond Synthesis >>by Steve Russell, Member of Colorado Springs >>Mineralogical Society >>sprussell@... >> >>A fascinating event happened while I was attending the >>Tucson Show last year. I was in the room of Brazilian >>mineral dealer Joaquin Stick, and noticed a number of >>very nice, rather large diamond crystals for sale. When I >>inquired about them, I was introduced to an elderly >>gentleman sitting in the corner. This fascinating man was >>Professor Ilmeno Rutille, originally a professor of >>chemistry at the University of Bologna in Italy, but who >>had spent most of his professional career working for >>General Electric in their Diamond Synthesis Lab. >>Professor Rutille had synthesized all the diamond >>specimens I had seen in a laboratory in his home! >> >>I spent a very pleasant hour talking to this amazing man, >>and when I returned home, I began an e-mail >>correspondence with him. I?m afraid I pestered him for >>several months with questions about how these diamond >>crystals were grown, and finally he relented, saying he >>would show me the process if I would travel to his home >>laboratory in the mountains near Oakley, Kansas. >> >>It was late May when I arrived at Professor Rutille?s >>home, and after introducing me to his wife, he took me to >>his laboratory located behind his garage. I was >>immediately struck by the lack of large, sophisticated >>equipment one would expect to find in a lab capable of >>synthesizing diamonds. >> >>I asked Prof. Rutille where he made his diamonds, as >>there was not a single piece of technical equipment in >>the place. ?That is exactly why I asked you here,? he >>replied, ?Please sit down,? and he pointed to two chairs >>against the wall. We sat down, and he handed me some >>papers. ?It?s all explained here,? he said. While I looked >>at the papers, Prof. Rutille told a fascinating story. >> >>The early attempts to synthesize diamonds at the GE >>labs were a trial and error effort that did not succeed until >>it was discovered that with existing equipment, a catalyst >>was necessary to lower the temperature and pressure at >>which diamonds form. An amino acid present in animal >>muscle and fat tissue turned out to be the key. This was >>discovered when a technician was preparing samples to >>go into the furnace while eating a ham sandwich. A bit of >>ham contaminated the sample, but the technician went >>ahead with the test. The result was a diamond?small >>and very poor quality?but a diamond. This amino acid >>catalyst has been kept a secret ever since. >> >>The story continues in the 1980s when Prof. Rutille >>began work on a project in the GE Synthetic Stones Lab >>to synthesize elbaite tourmaline. The scientists added >>various metals to the chemical structure to change the >>color of the crystals. The results were disappointing, >>except in the case of copper. Adding copper produced a >>?cuprian elbaite? of a beautiful, but rather unbelievable, >>teal blue color. Further research was discontinued because >>his superiors felt that gems cut from this material >>looked ?fake.? Prof. Rutille kept about half of the few >>hundred crystals produced, sending the rest to a mineral >>dealer friend in Paraiba, Brazil. >> >>Prof. Rutille wondered if copper might also produce a >>blue color in diamonds, and began a series of tests. The >>attempt to produce blue diamonds failed, but he found >>that the copper even more drastically reduced the >>temperature and pressure necessary to produce a >>diamond. In fact, a pressure of 650 pounds per square >>inch and a temperature of 112 degrees Fahrenheit were >>all that was necessary. This could be produced in a >>home laboratory! Prof. Rutille began to produce his own >>diamonds in his home lab, and those were the crystals I >>saw in Tucson. >> >>Prof. Rutille assured me that he would have grown rich >>selling diamond and never would have told me the >>details of how these diamonds were made if he had not >>been threatened by agents from GE and the De Beers >>Corporation a few weeks before my visit. He was so >>angry with his former employer that he asked me to >>publish his findings so that people everywhere could >>reproduce his results. I agreed, and below are >>instructions for synthesizing diamonds in your home or >>garage! >> >>Preparing the Sample >> >>copper pipe (the pipe and end caps are available at any >>home improvement center). Into the open end of the >>pipe, place 1.75 grams of the lunchmeat. This will >>provide the amino acid catalyst. Using a hammer or other >>tool, crumble the charcoal briquette into pieces small >>enough to fit into the copper pipe. Add exactly 4.2 grams >>of charcoal briquette, packing lightly with your finger >>(Photo 2). Note: DO NOT use briquettes with lighter fluid >>in them as this will contaminate the sample and cause a >>risk of fire or explosion! Add another 1.75 grams of >>lunchmeat on top of the packed charcoal briquette. Place >>the other end cap on the open end of the copper pipe, >>creating an enclosed container. Cut two round pieces of >>masking tape to fit the ends of the end caps, and place >>one piece of tape on each end cap (this will insulate the >>copper container from the jaws of the vice) (Photo 3). >> >>Creating the Diamond >>Note: Gloves and safety glasses should be worn during >>this step of the procedure! Place the copper container >>in the jaws of a large, heavy duty vice, one end cap >>against each jaw of the vice, and tighten enough to >>hold the container in place (Photo 4). Lay an accurate >>ruler across the top of the vice. It is necessary to close >>the vice one eighth of an inch to produce the >>necessary pressure. First, the container must be >>heated. Using the blow dryer on ?high? setting, heat >>the container for a minimum of two minutes. Now, while >>continuing to heat the container, begin to close the >>vice, slowly. Some effort will be required, but continue >>closing the vice until you have collapsed the >>container one eighth of an inch. Continue to heat the >>container with the blow dryer for a minimum of four >>more minutes. Don?t be surprised if you feel yourself >>getting hungry?it does smell like barbeque! After >>four minutes, the blow dryer may be turned off. Allow the >>container to cool for 30 minutes. Using a hacksaw, >>cut the container in half and remove your diamond! >> >>I know this leaves one question: What type of lunch-meat >>to use? I have experimented with several types, and I >>achieved my best results using pure baloney. >> >>Original Editor's note: If you are excited by the >>potential that the above article details, I recommend that >>you reevaluate the article. It is April, after all. >> >> >>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >>--- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockcurrier at cs.com Sat Apr 2 04:39:41 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Sat Apr 2 04:36:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Aluminum crystals References: <200504020159.j321x2qD026014@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <004101c53781$0b2e26d0$2eeaa5d8@rock5> It would appear that alluminium does not occur in crystals in the sense that bismuth crystals do (very rarely and they don't look like much) or quartz crystals. For many years it was thought that aluminium did not occur at all naturally, but I think that it has been reported in the literature enough and reliability enough to conclude that it rarely does. Here is something I wrote about aluminium recently for I project I have been working on that I am sure will never be finsihed. *Aluminum Rare species collections. Al, A native metallic element. Aluminum has now been found in several localities in Russia and elsewhere. It has been found in diatremes in Kazakhstan and a skarn deposit at Taror, Tajikistan and in epithermal veins at Nikitovka Mercury deposit, Ukraine. Also found in a lunar rock. Initially there were many in Russia and elsewhere who felt that native aluminum was reported in error. Even the late and highly venerated Michael Fleischer commented "This seems extremely improbable from thermodynamic considerations." Translating this into the common vernacular it means "No fu----- way!" Dmitry Belakovsky of the Fersman Museum in Moscow thought he had discovered native aluminum in some charoite samples he was working on. It turned out however that the aluminum was from the aluminum foil that the miners had used to wrap the explosives they were using when blasting the charoite out of the deposit. This and other reasons made it difficult for many researchers to believe that native aluminum had actually been discovered. Dimitry assures me however that he has seen some specimens of aluminum in matrix that are certainly authentic. The best of these might be like a tiny bit of tinfoil in rock. 1 American Mineralogist, Vol. 65, p205, 1980. Russia Southern Ural Mountains, Orenburg Oblast, Kumak Deposit. Material was found in quartz veins. The best specimen was a 3 cm piece of gray white quartz with a thin sheet of native aluminum measuring about 5 mm across.1 The specimen is in the Fersman Museum in Moscow. 1 Dmitry Belakovsky, personal communication 2002. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sat Apr 2 05:09:28 2005 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sat Apr 2 05:09:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Aluminum crystals In-Reply-To: <004101c53781$0b2e26d0$2eeaa5d8@rock5> References: <200504020159.j321x2qD026014@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <004101c53781$0b2e26d0$2eeaa5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <424E9988.7050400@xs4all.nl> I have in front of me the article: "Ore minereals in products of eruptions of Karymsky volcanic center in 1996-1998yy" by Elena Grib et al. Sorry, I don;t know the magazine in which it was published, I got mine directly from Elena. It says: "Ore minerals in the products of effusive and pyroclastic stages have been studied more detailed as they have primary magmatic nature. Native metals: aluminium, copper, iron and sulfides: pyrrhotine, pyrite with variable content of copper, chalcopyrite, chalcosine, bornite and a mineral fukuchilite type have been tested by the methods of mineragraphy and by microprobe analysis" This is said in respect of the 1996 Akademia Nauk erupion. Akademia Nauk is a volcanoat the bottom of Lake Karymsky at the foot of the Karymsky volcano in central Kamchatka, Russia. During the eruption Lake Karymsky housed boiled fish, ready to eat!! I have some material described in this article, but I must honestly say that I can not make out any aluminium under my microscope. So it is REALLY small. In the pumice you find small numerous metallic grains, made up of the mineral above. And the volcanologist did not watch the eruption while eating aluminium foil wrapped lunches :-) Other native Aluminium localities in Russia are: Billeekh gabbro-dolerite intrusion, the Tsepochechnyi intrusion (nr Viluy river, Yakutia), the Ust Khann'ya intrusion (in the same area) and the Nizhnefokinskii intrusion near Norilsk. All described by Igor Pekov. Cheers, Maurice Rock Currier wrote: >It would appear that alluminium does not occur in crystals in the sense that bismuth crystals do (very rarely and they don't look like much) or quartz crystals. For many years it was thought that aluminium did not occur at all naturally, but I think that it has been reported in the literature enough and reliability enough to conclude that it rarely does. Here is something I wrote about aluminium recently for I project I have been working on that I am sure will never be finsihed. > >*Aluminum Rare species collections. >Al, A native metallic element. > >Aluminum has now been found in several localities in Russia and elsewhere. It has been found in diatremes in Kazakhstan and a skarn deposit at Taror, Tajikistan and in epithermal veins at Nikitovka Mercury deposit, Ukraine. Also found in a lunar rock. Initially there were many in Russia and elsewhere who felt that native aluminum was reported in error. Even the late and highly venerated Michael Fleischer commented "This seems extremely improbable from thermodynamic considerations." Translating this into the common vernacular it means "No fu----- way!" Dmitry Belakovsky of the Fersman Museum in Moscow thought he had discovered native aluminum in some charoite samples he was working on. It turned out however that the aluminum was from the aluminum foil that the miners had used to wrap the explosives they were using when blasting the charoite out of the deposit. This and other reasons made it difficult for many researchers to believe that native aluminum had actually been discovered. Dimitry assures me however that he has seen some specimens of aluminum in matrix that are certainly authentic. The best of these might be like a tiny bit of tinfoil in rock. > >1 American Mineralogist, Vol. 65, p205, 1980. > >Russia > >Southern Ural Mountains, Orenburg Oblast, Kumak Deposit. Material was found in quartz veins. The best specimen was a 3 cm piece of gray white quartz with a thin sheet of native aluminum measuring about 5 mm across.1 The specimen is in the Fersman Museum in Moscow. > >1 Dmitry Belakovsky, personal communication 2002. > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Apr 2 07:42:27 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Apr 2 07:42:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Home made diamonds In-Reply-To: <008201c53721$c9bf19c0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: IT WORKS !!! WE'RE RICH... But why do they smell like fish??? Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jeanette Wimpee Verzonden: zaterdag 2 april 2005 3:18 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Fw: Home made diamonds Home Diamond Synthesis by Steve Russell, Member of Colorado Springs Mineralogical Society sprussell@... A fascinating event happened while I was attending the Tucson Show last year. I was in the room of Brazilian mineral dealer Joaquin Stick, and noticed a number of very nice, rather large diamond crystals for sale. When I inquired about them, I was introduced to an elderly gentleman sitting in the corner. This fascinating man was Professor Ilmeno Rutille, originally a professor of chemistry at the University of Bologna in Italy, but who had spent most of his professional career working for General Electric in their Diamond Synthesis Lab. Professor Rutille had synthesized all the diamond specimens I had seen in a laboratory in his home! I spent a very pleasant hour talking to this amazing man, and when I returned home, I began an e-mail correspondence with him. I?m afraid I pestered him for several months with questions about how these diamond crystals were grown, and finally he relented, saying he would show me the process if I would travel to his home laboratory in the mountains near Oakley, Kansas. It was late May when I arrived at Professor Rutille?s home, and after introducing me to his wife, he took me to his laboratory located behind his garage. I was immediately struck by the lack of large, sophisticated equipment one would expect to find in a lab capable of synthesizing diamonds. I asked Prof. Rutille where he made his diamonds, as there was not a single piece of technical equipment in the place. ?That is exactly why I asked you here,? he replied, ?Please sit down,? and he pointed to two chairs against the wall. We sat down, and he handed me some papers. ?It?s all explained here,? he said. While I looked at the papers, Prof. Rutille told a fascinating story. The early attempts to synthesize diamonds at the GE labs were a trial and error effort that did not succeed until it was discovered that with existing equipment, a catalyst was necessary to lower the temperature and pressure at which diamonds form. An amino acid present in animal muscle and fat tissue turned out to be the key. This was discovered when a technician was preparing samples to go into the furnace while eating a ham sandwich. A bit of ham contaminated the sample, but the technician went ahead with the test. The result was a diamond?small and very poor quality?but a diamond. This amino acid catalyst has been kept a secret ever since. The story continues in the 1980s when Prof. Rutille began work on a project in the GE Synthetic Stones Lab to synthesize elbaite tourmaline. The scientists added various metals to the chemical structure to change the color of the crystals. The results were disappointing, except in the case of copper. Adding copper produced a ?cuprian elbaite? of a beautiful, but rather unbelievable, teal blue color. Further research was discontinued because his superiors felt that gems cut from this material looked ?fake.? Prof. Rutille kept about half of the few hundred crystals produced, sending the rest to a mineral dealer friend in Paraiba, Brazil. Prof. Rutille wondered if copper might also produce a blue color in diamonds, and began a series of tests. The attempt to produce blue diamonds failed, but he found that the copper even more drastically reduced the temperature and pressure necessary to produce a diamond. In fact, a pressure of 650 pounds per square inch and a temperature of 112 degrees Fahrenheit were all that was necessary. This could be produced in a home laboratory! Prof. Rutille began to produce his own diamonds in his home lab, and those were the crystals I saw in Tucson. Prof. Rutille assured me that he would have grown rich selling diamond and never would have told me the details of how these diamonds were made if he had not been threatened by agents from GE and the De Beers Corporation a few weeks before my visit. He was so angry with his former employer that he asked me to publish his findings so that people everywhere could reproduce his results. I agreed, and below are instructions for synthesizing diamonds in your home or garage! Preparing the Sample copper pipe (the pipe and end caps are available at any home improvement center). Into the open end of the pipe, place 1.75 grams of the lunchmeat. This will provide the amino acid catalyst. Using a hammer or other tool, crumble the charcoal briquette into pieces small enough to fit into the copper pipe. Add exactly 4.2 grams of charcoal briquette, packing lightly with your finger (Photo 2). Note: DO NOT use briquettes with lighter fluid in them as this will contaminate the sample and cause a risk of fire or explosion! Add another 1.75 grams of lunchmeat on top of the packed charcoal briquette. Place the other end cap on the open end of the copper pipe, creating an enclosed container. Cut two round pieces of masking tape to fit the ends of the end caps, and place one piece of tape on each end cap (this will insulate the copper container from the jaws of the vice) (Photo 3). Creating the Diamond Note: Gloves and safety glasses should be worn during this step of the procedure! Place the copper container in the jaws of a large, heavy duty vice, one end cap against each jaw of the vice, and tighten enough to hold the container in place (Photo 4). Lay an accurate ruler across the top of the vice. It is necessary to close the vice one eighth of an inch to produce the necessary pressure. First, the container must be heated. Using the blow dryer on ?high? setting, heat the container for a minimum of two minutes. Now, while continuing to heat the container, begin to close the vice, slowly. Some effort will be required, but continue closing the vice until you have collapsed the container one eighth of an inch. Continue to heat the container with the blow dryer for a minimum of four more minutes. Don?t be surprised if you feel yourself getting hungry?it does smell like barbeque! After four minutes, the blow dryer may be turned off. Allow the container to cool for 30 minutes. Using a hacksaw, cut the container in half and remove your diamond! I know this leaves one question: What type of lunch-meat to use? I have experimented with several types, and I achieved my best results using pure baloney. Original Editor's note: If you are excited by the potential that the above article details, I recommend that you reevaluate the article. It is April, after all. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pbhewitt at comcast.net Sat Apr 2 08:23:49 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul Hewitt) Date: Sat Apr 2 08:23:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] making citrine References: <200504011920.j31JK8iH026043@outmx010.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: <000701c537a0$5a3eb040$6501a8c0@maingear> I can assure you I am not in the least bit offended. I just wanted to try cooking amethyst and see what the results would be. I can assure you I will only be using bulk amethyst that I bought for tumbling stock and not any well formed crystals. I have no intention of selling the pieces as citrine either, they are only for my private collection. Paul in Marietta ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rik Dillen" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 2:20 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] making citrine > Hi all, > > I don't want to offend anyone on the list, but IMHO things are being mixed > up a little bit. By heating amethyst you > won't get any citrine in mineralogical terms. You would get just "burned > amethyst", which is not to be considered as a > mineral anymore. At our show anyway it is strictly forbidden to use the > name "citrine" for this synthetic kind of > material, because people that are not knowledgeable enough are often > confused by the improper use of terms. The use of > appropriate terminology is already complex enough. > > BTW I would label amethyst as "Quartz, var. amethyst". Mineralogically it > is quartz after all, no less, no more. > > I'm wondering anyway why people want to change a nice amethyst into some > brownish stuff loosing all its natural beauty. > OK, boys (and girls), I know that some of you will disagree with my > opinion, which I appreciate. I just have my opinion > on this matter, no intention to get a flame war started :>)) > > Greetings, > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > Belgium > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>>> Belgian minerals >>>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>>> Exchange list > > MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From kahako at verizon.net Sat Apr 2 09:37:49 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Apr 2 09:37:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] making citrine In-Reply-To: <000701c537a0$5a3eb040$6501a8c0@maingear> References: <200504011920.j31JK8iH026043@outmx010.isp.belgacom.be> <000701c537a0$5a3eb040$6501a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050402073217.025e5cc0@incoming.verizon.net> Anyone want to try answering this? We are going to display our ignorance here, but can someone explain what is involved with citrine being created by heating? Bill says he is making a WAG that the color of amethyst is caused by iron, and that heating will cause a change from ferric to ferrous---or vice versa---by a process of oxidation or reduction (not sure which) of the iron in the quartz. He says PDLTL (Please don't laugh too loud). Aloha, Kitty At 06:23 AM 4/2/2005, you wrote: >I can assure you I am not in the least bit offended. I just wanted to try >cooking amethyst and see what the results would be. I can assure you I >will only be using bulk amethyst that I bought for tumbling stock and not >any well formed crystals. I have no intention of selling the pieces as >citrine either, they are only for my private collection. > >Paul in Marietta From agesilaus at gmail.com Sat Apr 2 10:41:19 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Apr 2 10:41:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] making citrine In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050402073217.025e5cc0@incoming.verizon.net> References: <200504011920.j31JK8iH026043@outmx010.isp.belgacom.be> <000701c537a0$5a3eb040$6501a8c0@maingear> <6.2.1.2.0.20050402073217.025e5cc0@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: Hmmm I assume you are asking what is oxidation? I won't make your eyes glaze over by going into the deep technical details but in the case of Ferric and Ferrous it works like this. The formula for ferric oxide is Fe2O3. Now oxygen, the O in the formula, always has a charge of -2, so three O's times -2 = -6. Thus the iron atoms must each have an opposing charge of +3 (3 X 2 = 6). The charges must be opposite since chemical compounds are always electrically neutral, they have a charge of zero. In Ferrous Oxide, with a formula of FeO, using the same calculations you can see that the combined oxygen charge is -2 and thus the charge on the iron is also +2. These are called oxidation states of iron and if you look on a periodic table you'll see Iron (+2,+3). The different oxidation states have different chemical properties and thus the difference between amethyst and citrine. So that is what may be happening during the conversion to citrine. BK On Apr 2, 2005 12:37 PM, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > Anyone want to try answering this? > > We are going to display our ignorance here, but can someone explain what is > involved with citrine being created by heating? Bill says he is making a > WAG that the color of amethyst is caused by iron, and that heating will > cause a change from ferric to ferrous---or vice versa---by a process of > oxidation or reduction (not sure which) of the iron in the quartz. He says > PDLTL (Please don't laugh too loud). > > Aloha, Kitty > > At 06:23 AM 4/2/2005, you wrote: > >I can assure you I am not in the least bit offended. I just wanted to try > >cooking amethyst and see what the results would be. I can assure you I > >will only be using bulk amethyst that I bought for tumbling stock and not > >any well formed crystals. I have no intention of selling the pieces as > >citrine either, they are only for my private collection. > > > >Paul in Marietta > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From bova at mindspring.com Sat Apr 2 10:47:24 2005 From: bova at mindspring.com (Carol J. Bova) Date: Sat Apr 2 10:43:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] making citrine In-Reply-To: <200504011920.j31JK8iH026043@outmx010.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: Rik, I suppose this is one of those situations when mineralogy diverges from gemology, where citrine is a valid name. I dug out my GIA Gem Reference Guide, and other than color, and lack of fluorescence in citrine, there is no difference gemologically from amethyst. They recommend that sellers disclose that nearly all citrine is heat treated, because it is impossible to determine that citrine was or was not heated in clean material without inclusions. Interestingly, Sinkankas in his Gemstones of North America notes that "burnt amethyst" is one of the names for the deep reddish-brown form produced by heating, which is far from ugly. Not all amethyst produces citrine of a good color on heating. It depends on the locality, and whether the amethyst contains a touch of iron. The colors produced by heating can range from yellow to orange to brownish-orange, and as gemstone material or gems.. they are quite beautiful. A question for you... When citrine crystals are found in nature, as they occasionally are, would you still consider them synthetic? Carol Carol J. Bova, Editor The Eclectic Lapidary editor@eclecticlapidary.com http://www.eclecticlapidary.com On Friday, April 1, 2005, at 02:20 PM, Rik Dillen wrote: > Hi all, > > I don't want to offend anyone on the list, but IMHO things are being > mixed up a little bit. By heating amethyst you won't get any citrine > in mineralogical terms. You would get just "burned amethyst", which is > not to be considered as a mineral anymore. At our show anyway it is > strictly forbidden to use the name "citrine" for this synthetic kind > of material, because people that are not knowledgeable enough are > often confused by the improper use of terms. The use of appropriate > terminology is already complex enough. > > BTW I would label amethyst as "Quartz, var. amethyst". Mineralogically > it is quartz after all, no less, no more. > > I'm wondering anyway why people want to change a nice amethyst into > some brownish stuff loosing all its natural beauty. OK, boys (and > girls), I know that some of you will disagree with my opinion, which I > appreciate. I just have my opinion on this matter, no intention to get > a flame war started :>)) > > Greetings, > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > Belgium > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>>> Belgian minerals >>>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>>> Exchange list > > MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > From tim at orerockon.com Sat Apr 2 11:06:35 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sat Apr 2 11:06:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Water Lily Jasper In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050402110303.02697c48@mail.spiritone.com> It's Lily Pad Jasper, not Water Lily. And it's closer to Culver than Madras. The MHRC attempted to claim the dig a few years ago; I went and recorded the claim boundaries and marked them 2 years ago, and filed the claim report. The BLM, in their infinite wisdom, decided it couldn't be claimed because it was located on acquired lands, not ceded lands. Oh well. The club digs there frequently, at least 3 or 4 times a year. If you want the exact location you should inquire locally or buy my CD :) At 09:57 PM 4/1/2005, you wrote: >Anyone have any information about Water Lily Jasper found near Madras Oregon? >Thank you >Timm Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sat Apr 2 12:20:47 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sat Apr 2 12:20:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Microminerals from Sauktown Sales Message-ID: <20050402202047.99056.qmail@web51007.mail.yahoo.com> I've done another update to the pricelist at www.sauktown.com There are more additions than normal this month, and quite a few are from type localities. There is also some restocked material that had previously sold out, so if you were too late to get something previously, you might have a second chance. Quantities are still limited in many cases, so don't delay. I've also added more mounted specimens. These are shown on the New Additions list with numbers starting with "M-". All these new mounted specimens are permanently mounted on pegs. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ From mineral.maertens at att.net Sat Apr 2 12:38:58 2005 From: mineral.maertens at att.net (Johan Maertens) Date: Sat Apr 2 12:38:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] SHAPE Program and alternatives In-Reply-To: <200504020159.j321x2q9026014@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: Horst and other readers: Google for: Crystal2000 or Krystal2000 JCrystal Every program has supporters and opponents. They are not mutually compatible, i.e. cannot read each others files. I recently upgraded from Shape DOS (1985 version) to Shape for Windows 5 and it runs well on my Win 98SE You can download the trial version and upgrade if you like it. Eric Dowty still supports it. Johan Maertens mineral dot maertens at att dot net Do you like minerals and other earth treasures? Visit the Mineral Collectors Page by the Mineral Club of Antwerp at http://www.minerant.org Enjoy the beauty of calcite and join the International Calcite Collectors Association Visit http://www.rockhounds.com/icca/ From tjflex2 at yahoo.ca Sat Apr 2 13:39:35 2005 From: tjflex2 at yahoo.ca (Craig Elliott) Date: Sat Apr 2 13:39:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] identification Message-ID: <20050402213935.70017.qmail@web30404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi, I am tyring to identify a mineral that I was told was Silicium from Poland. It is prismatic blue/black/green. If it is Silicium, is it natural or lab grown? Thank you for any help, Craig. --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/pjpeg image/pjpeg --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Apr 2 14:00:13 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Apr 2 14:00:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] making citrine References: <006f01c5356c$4a696b50$6401a8c0@Dri> <424B19F6.6030308@azgs.az.gov> <000901c53613$e023d390$6501a8c0@maingear> <424C9EEC.4000901@cksonline.net> <6.2.1.2.0.20050331181338.02630368@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <424F15DD.3795@Tomaszewski.net> Kitty & Bill, It is now generally agreed that the iron in quartz is behind amethyst, citrine, and ametrine. Dibble's 2002 book on Quartz gives a few details, mentions issues from trace elements at different locations, and the poorly understood concentration of color in bands under the termination faces; bottom line is "The details of exactly what happens at each color center have not yet been completely worked out". We know from Mark Liccini that to go from amethyst to citrine you heat to 450C, watch it go thru a clear stage, and then to citrine. With appropriate gamma ray exposure and then heat treating (usually around 600F) you can make many different colors. Specimens from some locations work better than from other locations (and a few don't work at all), and we don't understand why. We know that bright sunlight will fade amethyst. I suspect Bill's guess is pretty close to the cause, but if that were all I think the color issues would have been resolved by now. My guess is that the trace elements play a part. BTW, I wonder if you could heat treat to make ametrine by asymmetrical heating? Kreigh Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > We are going to display our ignorance here, but can someone explain what is > involved with citrine being created by heating? Bill says he is making a > WAG that the color of amethyst is caused by iron, and that heating will > cause a change from ferric to ferrous---or vice versa---by a process of > oxidation or reduction (not sure which) of the iron in the quartz. He says > PDLTL (Please don't laugh too loud). > > I also would like to know what happens in nature to make it possible for > citrine and amethyst to occur together. I have a piece that was called > "ametrine" because one half of it is amethyst, and the other half citrine, > and the line between the two colors is absolutely sharp---no blending at > all. And if my question is dumb, I'll say PDLTL also. > > Aloha, Kitty > > At 03:07 PM 3/31/2005, you wrote: > >Paul Hewitt wrote: > > > >>I have read that citrine can be created by heating amethyst for awhile. > >>What I have been unable to find is how hot you have to get it and for how > >>long. Is it something that can be done in a conventional oven or do you > >>need something like a ceramic kiln? > >The garimpeiros at the amethyst mine at Alto Bonita, close to me here in > >Para, Brasil, layer amethyst with charcoal and then set fire to the lot, > >in a 45 gal. drum. Not the most controlled way to make citrine, but the > >amethyst from this location is noted for making nicely deep yellow > >citrines. I believe this was mentioned on the site of the late Mark > >Liccini as mentioned by others. > From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 2 14:38:04 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Sat Apr 2 14:38:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Home made diamonds References: Message-ID: <000901c537d4$a3557b90$78f1edc1@mpc1> > IT WORKS !!! > WE'RE RICH... > But why do they smell like fish??? You used the wrong grommets... From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Apr 2 14:57:20 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Apr 2 14:57:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Home made diamonds References: <017a01c5374f$ec7ff500$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <424F2339.5435@Tomaszewski.net> If you really want to make your own diamonds, there is a great website with pretty good detail on how to do it http://brysonburke.com/diamond_formation_artificial_diamonds.html but you are not likely to have the required equipment on hand. Lore has it that you can make your own diamonds by stirring sugar into molten iron and force cooling the mass to create enough heat and pressure to convert some of the carbon into micro diamonds. Dissolve the iron in acid to recover the diamonds. This is something you could try at home (well, in the back yard). Build a cupola furnace (see http://www.rockisland.com/~marshall/cupola.html) to melt your iron, and see if you can turn a bag of sugar into diamond grit. Enjoy! Kreigh Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > > charcoal....same as on April 2nd.... > Jeanette > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Berj N. Ensanian" > To: > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 8:38 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fw: Home made diamonds > > > > > But, there is still the question of what actually DOES result when such an > > experimental procedure is tried, especially on an April 1st. > > > > Berj > > > > > >>From: "Jeanette Wimpee" > >>Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >>collectors" > >>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >>collectors" > >>Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Home made diamonds > >>Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 19:17:50 -0600 > >> > >> > >>Home Diamond Synthesis > >>by Steve Russell, Member of Colorado Springs > >>Mineralogical Society > >>sprussell@... > >> > >>A fascinating event happened while I was attending the > >>Tucson Show last year. I was in the room of Brazilian > >>mineral dealer Joaquin Stick, and noticed a number of > >>very nice, rather large diamond crystals for sale. When I > >>inquired about them, I was introduced to an elderly > >>gentleman sitting in the corner. This fascinating man was > >>Professor Ilmeno Rutille, originally a professor of > >>chemistry at the University of Bologna in Italy, but who > >>had spent most of his professional career working for > >>General Electric in their Diamond Synthesis Lab. > >>Professor Rutille had synthesized all the diamond > >>specimens I had seen in a laboratory in his home! > >> > >>I spent a very pleasant hour talking to this amazing man, > >>and when I returned home, I began an e-mail > >>correspondence with him. I?m afraid I pestered him for > >>several months with questions about how these diamond > >>crystals were grown, and finally he relented, saying he > >>would show me the process if I would travel to his home > >>laboratory in the mountains near Oakley, Kansas. > >> > >>It was late May when I arrived at Professor Rutille?s > >>home, and after introducing me to his wife, he took me to > >>his laboratory located behind his garage. I was > >>immediately struck by the lack of large, sophisticated > >>equipment one would expect to find in a lab capable of > >>synthesizing diamonds. > >> > >>I asked Prof. Rutille where he made his diamonds, as > >>there was not a single piece of technical equipment in > >>the place. ?That is exactly why I asked you here,? he > >>replied, ?Please sit down,? and he pointed to two chairs > >>against the wall. We sat down, and he handed me some > >>papers. ?It?s all explained here,? he said. While I looked > >>at the papers, Prof. Rutille told a fascinating story. > >> > >>The early attempts to synthesize diamonds at the GE > >>labs were a trial and error effort that did not succeed until > >>it was discovered that with existing equipment, a catalyst > >>was necessary to lower the temperature and pressure at > >>which diamonds form. An amino acid present in animal > >>muscle and fat tissue turned out to be the key. This was > >>discovered when a technician was preparing samples to > >>go into the furnace while eating a ham sandwich. A bit of > >>ham contaminated the sample, but the technician went > >>ahead with the test. The result was a diamond?small > >>and very poor quality?but a diamond. This amino acid > >>catalyst has been kept a secret ever since. > >> > >>The story continues in the 1980s when Prof. Rutille > >>began work on a project in the GE Synthetic Stones Lab > >>to synthesize elbaite tourmaline. The scientists added > >>various metals to the chemical structure to change the > >>color of the crystals. The results were disappointing, > >>except in the case of copper. Adding copper produced a > >>?cuprian elbaite? of a beautiful, but rather unbelievable, > >>teal blue color. Further research was discontinued because > >>his superiors felt that gems cut from this material > >>looked ?fake.? Prof. Rutille kept about half of the few > >>hundred crystals produced, sending the rest to a mineral > >>dealer friend in Paraiba, Brazil. > >> > >>Prof. Rutille wondered if copper might also produce a > >>blue color in diamonds, and began a series of tests. The > >>attempt to produce blue diamonds failed, but he found > >>that the copper even more drastically reduced the > >>temperature and pressure necessary to produce a > >>diamond. In fact, a pressure of 650 pounds per square > >>inch and a temperature of 112 degrees Fahrenheit were > >>all that was necessary. This could be produced in a > >>home laboratory! Prof. Rutille began to produce his own > >>diamonds in his home lab, and those were the crystals I > >>saw in Tucson. > >> > >>Prof. Rutille assured me that he would have grown rich > >>selling diamond and never would have told me the > >>details of how these diamonds were made if he had not > >>been threatened by agents from GE and the De Beers > >>Corporation a few weeks before my visit. He was so > >>angry with his former employer that he asked me to > >>publish his findings so that people everywhere could > >>reproduce his results. I agreed, and below are > >>instructions for synthesizing diamonds in your home or > >>garage! > >> > >>Preparing the Sample > >> > >>copper pipe (the pipe and end caps are available at any > >>home improvement center). Into the open end of the > >>pipe, place 1.75 grams of the lunchmeat. This will > >>provide the amino acid catalyst. Using a hammer or other > >>tool, crumble the charcoal briquette into pieces small > >>enough to fit into the copper pipe. Add exactly 4.2 grams > >>of charcoal briquette, packing lightly with your finger > >>(Photo 2). Note: DO NOT use briquettes with lighter fluid > >>in them as this will contaminate the sample and cause a > >>risk of fire or explosion! Add another 1.75 grams of > >>lunchmeat on top of the packed charcoal briquette. Place > >>the other end cap on the open end of the copper pipe, > >>creating an enclosed container. Cut two round pieces of > >>masking tape to fit the ends of the end caps, and place > >>one piece of tape on each end cap (this will insulate the > >>copper container from the jaws of the vice) (Photo 3). > >> > >>Creating the Diamond > >>Note: Gloves and safety glasses should be worn during > >>this step of the procedure! Place the copper container > >>in the jaws of a large, heavy duty vice, one end cap > >>against each jaw of the vice, and tighten enough to > >>hold the container in place (Photo 4). Lay an accurate > >>ruler across the top of the vice. It is necessary to close > >>the vice one eighth of an inch to produce the > >>necessary pressure. First, the container must be > >>heated. Using the blow dryer on ?high? setting, heat > >>the container for a minimum of two minutes. Now, while > >>continuing to heat the container, begin to close the > >>vice, slowly. Some effort will be required, but continue > >>closing the vice until you have collapsed the > >>container one eighth of an inch. Continue to heat the > >>container with the blow dryer for a minimum of four > >>more minutes. Don?t be surprised if you feel yourself > >>getting hungry?it does smell like barbeque! After > >>four minutes, the blow dryer may be turned off. Allow the > >>container to cool for 30 minutes. Using a hacksaw, > >>cut the container in half and remove your diamond! > >> > >>I know this leaves one question: What type of lunch-meat > >>to use? I have experimented with several types, and I > >>achieved my best results using pure baloney. > >> > >>Original Editor's note: If you are excited by the > >>potential that the above article details, I recommend that > >>you reevaluate the article. It is April, after all. > >> From geenet2 at mchsi.com Sat Apr 2 15:47:38 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Sat Apr 2 15:47:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Home made diamonds References: Message-ID: <002f01c537de$5a4f48e0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> You must have tried it with sardines.....or gefelte fish however you spell it. Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 9:42 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fw: Home made diamonds > IT WORKS !!! > WE'RE RICH... > But why do they smell like fish??? > > Axel > >/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From geenet2 at mchsi.com Sat Apr 2 15:59:21 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Sat Apr 2 15:59:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] making citrine References: <200504011920.j31JK8iH026043@outmx010.isp.belgacom.be> <000701c537a0$5a3eb040$6501a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <003901c537df$fda59890$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Would natural citrine have occurred due to some process that changed amethyst to citrine?? Just wondering. Jeanette From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Apr 2 17:18:31 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Apr 2 17:18:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] making citrine References: <200504011920.j31JK8iH026043@outmx010.isp.belgacom.be> <000701c537a0$5a3eb040$6501a8c0@maingear> <003901c537df$fda59890$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <424F4465.11CD@Tomaszewski.net> Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > > Would natural citrine have occurred due to some process that changed > amethyst to citrine?? > Just wondering. > Jeanette Metamorphic citrine. Why not? But it could also have formed at about 450C and started out as citrine. Wonder if you could turn natural citrine into amethyst? Kreigh From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sat Apr 2 17:23:20 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sat Apr 2 17:23:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] longevity of stone References: <20050401170322.86361.qmail@web41004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004a01c537eb$b8e206b0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Granite and most fine-grained igneous rocks should work fine as tombstones. Any sedimentary rock is not going to last as long. There are some hard sandstones, but I think that unless they are almost a quartzite, the grains can weather out with freezing-thawing over time. In fact, the two factors that degrade the stone are acid rain and freezing-thawing of the grains in the rock. A rock that does not allow for moisture to seep in will last the longest. Indiana limestone is cemented with calcite. It is good for monuments, but it is rarely used in tombstones other than oblisks. I am not familiar with Indiana sandstone used in tombstones. The Mansfield Sandstone in Indiana turns black with time and holds up pretty well (there are buildings in Cannelton constructed in the 1830's that still look good), but you won't see it used much in the cemetaries above the town. All rocks weather over time... and not all granites are suitable as tombstones. I'm sure there is a fair amount of information "out there" that can help you choose the best stone. Me? I'd like a boulder of fluorite! (Problem is, people would probably chip it over time.) Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. R. Hodel" To: Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 12:03 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] longevity of stone > Hi all: > > We're preparing to select and order a memorial stone for a family cemetary > plot. What stone, available from a standard commercial stoneyard, would > you recommend, from the point of longevity? > > We're interested in carving the names/dates of family members so that the > information is available for genealogical purposes long into the future. > I know limestone and marble stones can erode away pretty fast, I've seen > this in old cemetaries all over. Granite also erodes away sooner than you > might think. > > Should we look for a really fine-grained granite, or perhaps an Indiana > buff sandstone? The Indiana sandstone is cemented with quartz, isn't it? > > You economic geologists, pitch in on this conversation, please! > > Thanks, > > JR > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Apr 2 17:25:51 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Apr 2 17:25:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] identification References: <20050402213935.70017.qmail@web30404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <424F461C.314F@Tomaszewski.net> Craig Elliott wrote: > > Hi, I am tyring to identify a mineral that I was told was Silicium from Poland. It is prismatic blue/black/green. If it is Silicium, is it natural or lab grown? > > Thank you for any help, > Craig. Silicium is just another name for Silicon. It is probably processed material. Kreigh From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sat Apr 2 17:36:39 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sat Apr 2 17:36:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] auctions & smithsonite Message-ID: <005a01c537ed$951b0540$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I got a notice for mineral auctions from a dealer. Perhaps some of you did as well. (http://www.mineral-auctions.com/index.shtml) It was funny to see a specimen I collected among those on the auction block - smithsonite crystals on fluorite from Cave in Rock. I've still got a lot of that left, mostly small pieces and large pieces (not much in the middle). Of course the best crystals (such as the specimen auctioned) were not as common as the drusy smithsonite. Alan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pbhewitt at comcast.net Sat Apr 2 18:40:44 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul Hewitt) Date: Sat Apr 2 18:40:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] making citrine Message-ID: <000501c537f6$89fdc7c0$6501a8c0@maingear> I read somewhere that if you expose citrine to radiation it will turn back into amethyst. I will try and find the source. On 4/2/2005 8:18:31 PM, Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) wrote: > Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > > > > Would natural citrine have occurred due to some process that changed > > amethyst to citrine?? > > Just wondering. > > Jeanette > > Metamorphic citrine. Why not? > > But it could also have formed at about 450C and started out as citrine. > > Wonder if you could turn natural citrine into amethyst? > > Kreigh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Sat Apr 2 19:52:13 2005 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sat Apr 2 19:52:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] making citrine References: <200504011920.j31JK8iH026043@outmx010.isp.belgacom.be><000701c537a0$5a3eb040$6501a8c0@maingear><6.2.1.2.0.20050402073217.025e5cc0@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <001801c53800$85e06bc0$6601a8c0@GlennWimpee> Very good Bryan! Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] making citrine > Hmmm I assume you are asking what is oxidation? I won't make your eyes > glaze over by going into the deep technical details but in the case of > Ferric and Ferrous it works like this. The formula for ferric oxide is > Fe2O3. Now oxygen, the O in the formula, always has a charge of -2, so > three O's times -2 = -6. Thus the iron atoms must each have an > opposing charge of +3 (3 X 2 = 6). The charges must be opposite since > chemical compounds are always electrically neutral, they have a charge > of zero. > > In Ferrous Oxide, with a formula of FeO, using the same calculations > you can see that the combined oxygen charge is -2 and thus the charge > on the iron is also +2. These are called oxidation states of iron and > if you look on a periodic table you'll see Iron (+2,+3). The different > oxidation states have different chemical properties and thus the > difference between amethyst and citrine. > > So that is what may be happening during the conversion to citrine. > > BK From liz.fodi at utoronto.ca Sun Apr 3 08:53:21 2005 From: liz.fodi at utoronto.ca (liz fodi) Date: Sun Apr 3 08:53:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] SHAPE Programme References: <000401c536b3$0d18eb70$014127c4@privatehome> Message-ID: <42501170.C0919E5E@utoronto.ca> Try: http://www.ottens-mineralien.de/ click on "info" to access information on Kristall2000 Horst Windisch wrote: > Hi List, > > I am looking for information on what latest version of the SHAPE computer drawing system for crystals is on the market and itif it is still avalable. > > Is there perhaps any similar programme on the market? Name, what price and supplier please. > > Horst > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Sun Apr 3 09:47:58 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Sun Apr 3 09:49:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Feather Quartz? Message-ID: <42501E3E.7060904@tenforward.com> Hi Everyone, I've got a question regarding Quartz which I'd like to bounce off the list. It is my hope that some of you have additionally seen this quartz phenomenon in specimens which perhaps you've also puzzled over and that I may achieve a more through understanding of Feather Quartz. Back in '89 or '90, we went for a collecting trip to Hallelujah Junction (Peterson Peak), right on the California/ Nevada border. Among the treasures we found was an oddly deformed smokey-amethyst quartz specimen which had obviously broken free from a much larger crystal. On the opposite side of the break, and free of any damage, was a 2 x 2 inch area where growth features converged to create a feather-like pattern. I marveled over this neat little mystery and then set the piece aside.... until just the other day, when in the midst of a worldwide internet surfing marathon, I came across this link and immediately recognized the same feather-like features as displayed on my specimen from years ago... http://reversonet.lycos.de/result.asp?direction=65540&template=General&autotranslate=true&url=http://www.kristalle.ch/sammlung/federquarz.asp The paleo references to this feature as presented at this site are obviously without merit, but the photo is clear and mimics the features displayed in our specimen. The angle of the crystal faces where they converge in the center of the feature have not been measured, but when comparing the photo to my hand specimen, they seem approximate. When doing a search of Feather Quartz or Quartz Feathers, this link... http://www.maden.hacettepe.edu.tr/dmmrt/dmmrt428.html ... gave the following... Imperfect quartz crystals that meet at an angle of a crystallographic plane so that a cross section somewhat resembles a feather. And so, here we are and now to my questions... #1 What is happening here? #2 Is this a "common" feature from some deposits? And last, your own individual thoughts. Thank you for taking the time to help. All the very best, John PS If needed, a photo of my specimen can be sent. From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Apr 3 15:42:15 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Apr 3 15:41:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Feather Quartz? References: <42501E3E.7060904@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <42507111.436D@Tomaszewski.net> It looks like twinned Cipo Habit quartz. Is the angle 84.33 degrees to make it Japan Law twinned? Kreigh John and Gloria Cornish wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > I've got a question regarding Quartz which I'd like to bounce off the > list. It is my hope that some of you have additionally seen this quartz > phenomenon in specimens which perhaps you've also puzzled over and that > I may achieve a more through understanding of Feather Quartz. > > Back in '89 or '90, we went for a collecting trip to Hallelujah Junction > (Peterson Peak), right on the California/ Nevada border. Among the > treasures we found was an oddly deformed smokey-amethyst quartz specimen > which had obviously broken free from a much larger crystal. On the > opposite side of the break, and free of any damage, was a 2 x 2 inch > area where growth features converged to create a feather-like pattern. I > marveled over this neat little mystery and then set the piece aside.... > until just the other day, when in the midst of a worldwide internet > surfing marathon, I came across this link and immediately recognized the > same feather-like features as displayed on my specimen from years ago... > > http://reversonet.lycos.de/result.asp?direction=65540&template=General&autotranslate=true&url=http://www.kristalle.ch/sammlung/federquarz.asp > > The paleo references to this feature as presented at this site are > obviously without merit, but the photo is clear and mimics the features > displayed in our specimen. The angle of the crystal faces where they > converge in the center of the feature have not been measured, but when > comparing the photo to my hand specimen, they seem approximate. > > When doing a search of Feather Quartz or Quartz Feathers, this link... > > http://www.maden.hacettepe.edu.tr/dmmrt/dmmrt428.html > > ... gave the following... > > Imperfect quartz crystals that meet at an angle of a crystallographic > plane so that a cross section somewhat resembles a feather. > > And so, here we are and now to my questions... > > #1 What is happening here? > > #2 Is this a "common" feature from some deposits? > > And last, your own individual thoughts. Thank you for taking the time to > help. All the very best, > > John > > PS If needed, a photo of my specimen can be sent. > From rockcurrier at cs.com Sun Apr 3 17:31:08 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Sun Apr 3 17:27:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Amethyst, citrine and ametrine Message-ID: <004f01c538ad$9b0a2c40$2eeaa5d8@rock5> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rock Currier" To: Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 5:36 PM Subject: Amethyst, citrine and ametrine > In Rio Grande do Sul state, Brazil, the people involved in the amethyst > and agate business regularly convert tons of amethyst to "citrine" by > heating it in home made ovens. I have been told the temperature of the > conversion is near the top end of what our home kitchen ovens can achieve. > For anyone interested I would suggest an experiment. Take a low grade > fragment of Brazilian amethyst, stick it in the oven and turn it on high for > a few hours like you were cooking a large turkey and see what happens. I can > find out the conversion temperatures that are used in Brazil, but you out > there are lazy and I want to make you do the experiment and report it to us > here in the chat group. > To convert the large amethyst geodes into citrine geodes, the cutting > edge treatment in Brazil is to bring the oven to the amethyst geodes and to > cook them in place rather than move them in and out of the oven. Cooking the > amethyst make the whole specimen weaker and more susceptible to cracking. > When importing citrine geodes, we always have a higher breakable rate than > we do with the amethyst geodes. > The amethyst from the various localities around Artigas, Uruguay are > also treated in this fashion from time to time. The people involved in the > gem trade in RGS and Uruguay there who want to make "citrine", first facet > the amethyst stones into finished gems, put them in sand and then put them > in temperature controlled kilns to convert the amethyst to citrine. The sand > evens out the temperature changes and helps prevent thermal cracking from > too rapid a temperature change. I suspect that that like most chemical > reactions, the amethyst/citrine conversion is temperature mediated and that > at higher temperatures, the conversion process takes place more quickly and > therefore more economically. I had not heard before of the conversion of > amethyst to citrine by burning it in a barrel, but believe that this method > of conversion is entirely possible. In Rio Grande Sul, it is speculated that > the first "citrine" was discovered by someone making a camp fire pit using > some low grade faded amethyst specimens as some of the rocks around the fire > pit and then the next day noticing that the color in the amethyst had > changed. This sounds reasonable. > The "citrine" specimens from Rio Grande do Sul are obviously man made > and not natural, but there are natural citrine crystals from other > localities and especially when it comes to citrine gemstones it is not > immediately apparent to me how one could determine if they are the product > of heating in an oven or having been heated by some natural process in the > ground. > For those interested in the more technical side of what makes amethyst > purple and citrine yellow/orange and what makes ametrine I would strongly > you visit the following link which will take you to a site hosted by the > California Institute of Technology and mainly the work of Dr. George Rossman > of that University. It is the most lucid and best written simple explanation > the coloration of amethyst, citrine and ametrine. > http://minerals.gps.caltech.edu/AMETRINE/Index.htm > > Rock > > From asgardsgc at earthlink.net Sun Apr 3 18:03:08 2005 From: asgardsgc at earthlink.net (Mark Easterbrook) Date: Sun Apr 3 18:03:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] auctions & smithsonite Message-ID: <410-22005414138253@earthlink.net> Alan, I got the same notice. I remember how excited you were when you discovered the smithsonite about 4 years ago. I can't believe it has been that long. I still have quite a few pieces left. Mark > [Original Message] > From: Alan Goldstein > To: > Date: 4/2/2005 9:36:37 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] auctions & smithsonite > > I got a notice for mineral auctions from a dealer. Perhaps some of you did as well. (http://www.mineral-auctions.com/index.shtml) > It was funny to see a specimen I collected among those on the auction block - smithsonite crystals on fluorite from Cave in Rock. I've still got a lot of that left, mostly small pieces and large pieces (not much in the middle). Of course the best crystals (such as the specimen auctioned) were not as common as the drusy smithsonite. > > Alan > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Apr 3 18:15:27 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Apr 3 18:14:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Amethyst, citrine and ametrine References: <004f01c538ad$9b0a2c40$2eeaa5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <425094E3.1BE@Tomaszewski.net> Rock, Thanks for the update on Dr. Rossman's work. I see much progress has been made since Dibble's included summary of Rossman's studies. Kreigh From johnjold at comcast.net Sun Apr 3 21:53:46 2005 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Sun Apr 3 21:53:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Feather Quartz? In-Reply-To: <200504040102.j3412Vbt028616@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200504040102.j3412Vbt028616@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <43f31847cf81821fd7132df859a1c7de@comcast.net> > John & Gloria: I looked at the picture and immediately knew it was a > pseudo-fossil even before reading Kreigh diagnosis. I have dug quartz at several famous locations and have spent a lot of time looking at quartz crystal contact scars in attempting to reassemble pockets. This is not an easy task and can involve hours to reassemble a cluster (think 3-d jig saw puzzle with no picture to follow). There is a wide variety of contact scars including the feather type, the multi facet type, the circular type and the I can't believe that was a contact face type. The first clue to the non animal origin of this "fossil" is the nature of quartz and where and how it forms. The second is the reported age of the rock, way before birds. Every year as I comb Lake Michigan beaches for Petoskey Stones, I meet someone who wants to tell me of the fossil beehive they found complete with baby bees. This is inevitably a common fossil coral interestingly called Honeycomb Coral. The size of the cells is way too small for real bees and I have yet to understand where they see the baby bees. Diagnosing a pseudo-fossil kind of spoils the fun since the story is a lot better than reality. A similar problem in archeology is geo-form "tools". If you have been to the Chico Early Man site in California you know how carried away that can be. John J > > Hi Everyone, > > I've got a question regarding Quartz which I'd like to bounce off the > list. It is my hope that some of you have additionally seen this > quartz phenomenon in specimens which perhaps you've also puzzled over > and that I may achieve a more through understanding of Feather Quartz. > > Back in '89 or '90, we went for a collecting trip to Hallelujah > Junction (Peterson Peak), right on the California/ Nevada border. > Among the treasures we found was an oddly deformed smokey-amethyst > quartz specimen which had obviously broken free from a much larger > crystal. On the opposite side of the break, and free of any damage, > was a 2 x 2 inch area where growth features converged to create a > feather-like pattern. I marveled over this neat little mystery and > then set the piece aside.... until just the other day, when in the > midst of a worldwide internet surfing marathon, I came across this > link and immediately recognized the same feather-like features as > displayed on my specimen from years ago... > > http://reversonet.lycos.de/result.asp? > direction=65540&template=General&autotranslate=true&url=http:// > www.kristalle.ch/sammlung/federquarz.asp > > The paleo references to this feature as presented at this site are > obviously without merit, but the photo is clear and mimics the > features displayed in our specimen. The angle of the crystal faces > where they converge in the center of the feature have not been > measured, but when comparing the photo to my hand specimen, they seem > approximate. > > When doing a search of Feather Quartz or Quartz Feathers, this link... > > http://www.maden.hacettepe.edu.tr/dmmrt/dmmrt428.html > > ... gave the following... > > Imperfect quartz crystals that meet at an angle of a crystallographic > plane so that a cross section somewhat resembles a feather. > > And so, here we are and now to my questions... > > #1 What is happening here? > > #2 Is this a "common" feature from some deposits? > > And last, your own individual thoughts. Thank you for taking the time > to help. All the very best, > > John > > PS If needed, a photo of my specimen can be sent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- From DOMMELEN at DAL.CA Mon Apr 4 08:00:46 2005 From: DOMMELEN at DAL.CA (Ronnie Van Dommelen) Date: Mon Apr 4 08:00:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Crystal or crystals? Message-ID: <1112626846.4251569e3f417@my2.dal.ca> Hi All, A question popped up in a discussion between a friend and myself yesterday. We were talking about quartz Fadens, where the Faden forms a template upon which quartz can later grown. The crystal or crystals which grow around the Faden eventually grow large enough to join. They are crystallographically oriented (except perhaps for minor lattice defects). Would the final product be considered a single crystal, or an aggregate of parallel crystals? I could image other instances where the same question would apply. I guess what the question really boils down to is: is a crystal defined by its end state or by how it formed (i.e. from a single or multiple oriented seeds)? We both felt that it would be best classified as a single crystal but I was curious what others might have to say. Happy Collecting, Ronnie Van Dommelen From lanny at lrream.com Mon Apr 4 09:12:34 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Mon Apr 4 09:10:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Feather Quartz? In-Reply-To: <42501E3E.7060904@tenforward.com> References: <42501E3E.7060904@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <5B155412-A524-11D9-B858-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi John, Great photo. It is almost astounding in its appearance as a feather, one can see why some people would look at it as evidence of a fossil. It is of course only a crystal growth feature, specifically an interference pattern, the equivalent of striations. Large masses of quartz are not a single grain, but are composed of many grains of quartz (or crude crystals if you prefer). If you look at very much of this "massive" quartz broken up, you will see a few crystal faces, or more often, these zones where the crystals trying to form faces fought a battle with the adjoining grain over which crystal gets to occuppy the space and which one loses the battle. Typically, striations in quartz are seen on the m faces, and cut the c axis at 90 degrees. They are formed by the competition of the m face with the r or z face as the crystal grows. If you look at the striations of a crystal closely, you will see that it is actually a little step where an r face shows. As you go up the face of the crystal you are seeing m face r face m face, etc. Rarely, and I have one, the striations are at an angle, because they formed from the battle between the m face and a lesser face such as an s or x face (those little faces generally seen at the corners where the m faces meet the r faces. If you should happen to get this happening on two adjoining m faces, you would get a chevron. If this should happen in the formation of two of those large grains of quartz in "massive" quartz with the two grains growing against each other, it would produce the feature in that photo. At least that's how I visualize that it could happen. Regards, Lanny On Apr 3, 2005, at 9:47 AM, John and Gloria Cornish wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I've got a question regarding Quartz which I'd like to bounce off the > list. It is my hope that some of you have additionally seen this > quartz phenomenon in specimens which perhaps you've also puzzled over > and that I may achieve a more through understanding of Feather Quartz. > > Back in '89 or '90, we went for a collecting trip to Hallelujah > Junction (Peterson Peak), right on the California/ Nevada border. > Among the treasures we found was an oddly deformed smokey-amethyst > quartz specimen which had obviously broken free from a much larger > crystal. On the opposite side of the break, and free of any damage, > was a 2 x 2 inch area where growth features converged to create a > feather-like pattern. I marveled over this neat little mystery and > then set the piece aside.... until just the other day, when in the > midst of a worldwide internet surfing marathon, I came across this > link and immediately recognized the same feather-like features as > displayed on my specimen from years ago... > > http://reversonet.lycos.de/result.asp? > direction=65540&template=General&autotranslate=true&url=http:// > www.kristalle.ch/sammlung/federquarz.asp > > The paleo references to this feature as presented at this site are > obviously without merit, but the photo is clear and mimics the > features displayed in our specimen. The angle of the crystal faces > where they converge in the center of the feature have not been > measured, but when comparing the photo to my hand specimen, they seem > approximate. > > When doing a search of Feather Quartz or Quartz Feathers, this link... > > http://www.maden.hacettepe.edu.tr/dmmrt/dmmrt428.html > > ... gave the following... > > Imperfect quartz crystals that meet at an angle of a crystallographic > plane so that a cross section somewhat resembles a feather. > > And so, here we are and now to my questions... > > #1 What is happening here? > > #2 Is this a "common" feature from some deposits? > > And last, your own individual thoughts. Thank you for taking the time > to help. All the very best, > > John > > PS If needed, a photo of my specimen can be sent. > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rik.dillen at skynet.be Mon Apr 4 12:08:41 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Mon Apr 4 12:12:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] making citrine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200504041912.j34J8iNc024783@outmx022.isp.belgacom.be> -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Carol J. Bova Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 8:47 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] making citrine A question for you... When citrine crystals are found in nature, as they occasionally are, would you still consider them synthetic? [Rik Dillen] No, of course not. Natural quartz, variety citrine is different from burnt (I learned that you wrote burnt, not burned, as I did) amethyst. In my collection it would be classified as "quartz, variety citrine". I hope I don't look to fundamentalistic :>)) Greetings, Rik > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > Belgium > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>>> Belgian minerals >>>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>>> Exchange list > > MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > From tjokela at execulink.com Mon Apr 4 17:29:04 2005 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Mon Apr 4 17:29:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Crystal or crystals? References: <1112626846.4251569e3f417@my2.dal.ca> Message-ID: <006a01c53976$78b1ce90$6400a8c0@Junior> Some are single xls, some are multiple, depending on how they formed. Hopefully our resident crystallography guru Pete Richards will explain more thoroughly; if you don't hear from him see his article on faden quartz in Min. Rec.V21, #3, 1990, it is superb. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ronnie Van Dommelen" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 11:00 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Crystal or crystals? > Hi All, > > > A question popped up in a discussion between a friend and myself > yesterday. We > were talking about quartz Fadens, where the Faden forms a template upon > which > quartz can later grown. The crystal or crystals which grow around the > Faden > eventually grow large enough to join. They are crystallographically > oriented > (except perhaps for minor lattice defects). Would the final product be > considered a single crystal, or an aggregate of parallel crystals? I > could > image other instances where the same question would apply. I guess what > the > question really boils down to is: is a crystal defined by its end state or > by > how it formed (i.e. from a single or multiple oriented seeds)? We both > felt > that it would be best classified as a single crystal but I was curious > what > others might have to say. > > > Happy Collecting, > Ronnie Van Dommelen > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From xossfs at yahoo.com Mon Apr 4 19:26:23 2005 From: xossfs at yahoo.com (Stephen Stover) Date: Mon Apr 4 19:26:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] longevity of stone In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050405022623.55718.qmail@web20021.mail.yahoo.com> Define Time, and the environemnt. Garnite will disolve but it will take awhile. the feldspars will disolve inot acidic waters, just slowly. If you want a semi-permanat substance (nothing perment) Then a modertaly strong metamrophosied sandstone is what you are looking for. Exspecially if you get high temp and low pressure. The white mountains in Canda is a good example. The pure quartz rock that is melted together is non reactive to most substances. You could get a few millnia that way is not further. Put it in a long term desert environment and you could get a few million years. --- jjunkroski wrote: > Here in Illinois I've seen a beautiful red and black > augen gneiss, which I > am told is the well-known "Morton Gneiss", one of > the oldest rocks on the > continent. > It is used to face a number of large commercial > buildings in downtown > Chicago, where the pollution level must be very > high, as well as for grave > markers, and it appears to be very resistant. > > Another thought... how about bronze? Think of > ancient archeological finds > including buried coins which are still legible. > > "Junk" > > John Junkroski > > > on 4/1/05 2:08 PM, Carol J. Bova at > bova@mindspring.com wrote: > > > How about a former cemetery manager's opinion? *g* > > > > I worked with a 150 year old cemetery in L.A. The > marble markers > > literally were dissolving to the point of > illegibility from the older > > burials. Even brand new marble benches showed > etching from the rain in > > less than a year. So unless it's indoors, I don't > recommend marble to > > anyone for a memorial. > > > > I'm curious why you think granite doesn't hold up > over time? My > > experience was that a good professonal cleaning > restored any of the old > > ones we worked with to like-new appearance, > especially in hard-water > > areas that are irrigated. The only damage I've > seen was occasional > > minor spalling on the edges, which was more likely > from the way the > > stone was handled and polished, than the intrinsic > nature of the > > granite, and it never went anywhere near the > lettering. > > > > Other than Blue Pearl (which is a type of > labradorite, from Norway) > > http://www.chooseby.com/mar_dett.php?cod_mar=2707 > > I don't think there's much else readily available > other than marble and > > granite in the way of commercial monuments. > > > > Feel free to contact me offline if you have other > concerns. I have some > > good friends in the monument business who would be > happy to provide > > more information. > > Carol > > > > Carol J. Bova > > The Eclectic Lapidary > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com > > > > > > > > On Friday, April 1, 2005, at 12:03 PM, J. R. Hodel > wrote: > > > >> Hi all: > >> > >> We're preparing to select and order a memorial > stone for a family > >> cemetary plot. What stone, available from a > standard commercial > >> stoneyard, would you recommend, from the point of > longevity? > >> > >> We're interested in carving the names/dates of > family members so that > >> the information is available for genealogical > purposes long into the > >> future. I know limestone and marble stones can > erode away pretty > >> fast, I've seen this in old cemetaries all over. > Granite also erodes > >> away sooner than you might think. > >> > >> Should we look for a really fine-grained granite, > or perhaps an > >> Indiana buff sandstone? The Indiana sandstone is > cemented with > >> quartz, isn't it? > >> > >> You economic geologists, pitch in on this > conversation, please! > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> JR > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > Stephen F. Stover PH (281) 829-1102 xossfs@yahoo.com Wanting to hunt rocks and play games every day! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Tue Apr 5 01:31:35 2005 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Tue Apr 5 02:04:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geodes vrs. Vugs vrs. Mineralized openings References: <20050331181359.93189.qmail@web41003.mail.yahoo.com> <5C6BCFC8-A216-11D9-B858-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <000001c539be$7fccb9e0$614227c4@privatehome> Hi List, Well if even geological dictionaries vary in their definitions, what are we supposed to believe? On Sunday, whilst chairing an Argent Study Group meeting, I raised the subject of geode vs. vug and the following was gleaned from the "A Dictionary of Mining, Mineral and Related Terms" issued by the US Bureau of Mines:- "Geode - a hollow nodule or concretion, the cavity of which is lined with crystals of calcite or quartz; some are lined with smooth chalcedony or limonite. Most are formed of crystalline silica which may or may not have a shell of chalcedony, others are composed of limonite, celestite, barite or other minerals and most have been formed in shales or other soft rocks. Distinguished from vugs which are residual or solution cavities in veins or rocks and may be crystal-lined." "Vug - a small cavity in a rock, usually lined with a crystalline mineral incrustration. A cavity with a mineral lining of different composition from that of the surrounding rock." In this case. a geode DOES NOT neccesarily have to be lined with chalcedony, which some defintions state Horst----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:54 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geodes vrs. Vugs vrs. Mineralized openings >I had this discussion one time with Terry Huizing; he insisted that a geode >has to have a rind of chalcedony. He is right, if you accept the >definition in geologic dictionaries. One has to be careful what >"dictionaries" or "glossaries" you read on the Internet. There are a lot >of them at universities and other institutions, and a lot of them appear to >be made up on the spot. That is, they reflect popular usage (sometimes >incorrect, sometimes a little off from what is (or was) correct >geologic/scientific usage). If you look only at the geologic dictionaries, >then you will see that the rind of chalcedony is part of the definition. > > Back to the geode--personally (and personally is what most of are > expressing here if not quoting someone else), I generally go with the > definition of the geologic dictionaries. However, language is an evolving > thing. I see no reason for a geode to be restricted to a rock or structure > that has a chalcedony rind and a crystal-lined interior. The main points > are that it is a structure or geologic feature that can be separated from > the enclosing rock and has a rind and has a crystal-lined interior. If one > really looks into this whole idea, if a geode must have a rind of > chalcedony, then there is no name for those "rocks" that otherwise are the > same, that is they have a rind, a crystal-lined interior and are a > distinct feature that can be removed from the host rock. For this item, > I'm going with popular usage that it doesn't have to have a chalcedony > rind to be a geode. > > Lanny > > > On Mar 31, 2005, at 10:13 AM, J. R. Hodel wrote: > >> I've had this discussion before, too. Some argue that without a layer of >> chalcedony it isn't a geode - I don't think that's part of the >> definition. Google returns many definitions of a geode, with >> inconsistencies: >> >> 1. Medicalge?ode (j?'?d') n. A cystlike space with or without an >> epithelial lining, usually observed in subarticular bone in arthritic >> disorders. [Copyright ? 2004, 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company] >> >> I thought this one was maybe the most interesting, hope I never run >> across one of these!! >> >> 2. Encyclopedia geode (j?'?d) , hollow, globular rock nodule ranging in >> diameter from 1 to 12 in. (2.54-30.5 cm) or more. Most geodes are partly >> filled with mineral matter; they have a thin layer of chalcedony ("wavy" >> quartz) covering an inner lining of inward-projecting crystals. These >> spectacular crystals, generally quartz or, less often, calcite, make >> geodes highly prized by collectors. Geodes are formed in a cavity such as >> might be found inside a fossil shell buried in sediment. At the >> beginning, this cavity is probably filled with a concentrated salt >> solution. The first step in the creation of a geode is the formation >> along the inner cavity wall of a layer of gelatinous silica, which will >> eventually be transformed into the chalcedony layer. As the water >> surrounding the layer becomes less salty, osmosis induces migration of >> fluids into the cavity. This results in a buildup of pressure, causing >> the cavity to expand until the water inside and outside is equally salty. >> When the >> silica gel dehydrates, crystallizes to form chalcedony, and cracks, >> mineral-bearing water enters to slowly deposit the inward-projecting >> crystals. See concretion. [Copyright ? 2003, Columbia University Press.] >> >> This one is inconsistent with this one: >> >> 3. Geodes (Greek geoides, "earthlike") are geological formations common >> to the United States (Indiana, the Keokuk area of Iowa and Kentucky), >> Brazil, and Mexico. Essentially rock bubbles with internal crystal >> formations, the exterior of a geode is generally limestone or a related >> rock, while the interior contains quartz crystals and/or chalcedony >> deposits. Other geodes are completely filled with crystal, being solid >> all the way though. These types of geodes are called nodules. >> >> Geologists do not yet have a widely accepted theory about how geodes are >> formed, but it is believed geodes can form in any cavity that is buried. >> These can be bubbles in igneous rocks, pockets under tree roots, or even >> animal burrows. Over time, the external wall of the cavity hardens, and >> dissolved silicates and/or calcites are deposited on the inside surface. >> Over time, this slow feed of minerals allows crystals to form inside the >> hollow chamber. Then, over millions of years, the geode makes its way >> back to the surface through normal geologic processes. >> >> The size of the crystals, their form and shade of color can vary greatly, >> making each geode unique. Some are clear quartz crystals, and others have >> rich purple amethyst crystals. Still others can have agate, chalcedony, >> or jasper crystals. There is no way of telling what the inside of a geode >> holds until it is cut open or broken apart. [ This article is licensed >> under the GNU Free Documentation License. It uses material from the >> Wikipedia article "Geode". ] >> >> This article says that the "vugs" in igneious rocks (basalt, anyone) are >> geodes, too. >> >> Steve Garze and I went around about "geodized fossils" which is a term >> I've used for hollow fossils with crystals inside - one of my collecting >> favorites. Steve says that it isn't a geode without a chalcedony >> layer...if I've recalled his position accurately (Feel free to chip in, >> Steve!) >> >> But when I find a brachiopod (or any other identifiable fossil) lined >> with 2 or 3 kinds of crystalline mineral, I want to call it a geodized >> fossil, meaning a fossil which became hollow somehow, and then crystals >> built up inside that hollow, at different times and of different minerals >> ( at best, sometimes only one, so sue me). Maybe there's a little >> chalcedony, who knows without lab test and microscopes, anyway? >> >> So there's certainly room for arguement, until someone comes along with >> an arguement capable of making the rest of us with a different opinion >> shut up about it. >> >> KOR, >> JR >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Do you Yahoo!? >> Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rpr at nike.heidelberg.edu Tue Apr 5 07:51:25 2005 From: rpr at nike.heidelberg.edu (Pete Richards) Date: Tue Apr 5 07:51:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Crystal or crystals? In-Reply-To: <1112626846.4251569e3f417@my2.dal.ca> References: <1112626846.4251569e3f417@my2.dal.ca> Message-ID: This is a paradox that can occur in several situations in crystal growth. But in the case of faden minerals (not just quartz, but other alpine vein minerals) the whole assemblage starts out as a single crystal grain that gets broken in the initial opening of the rock to form the vein. The crack heals, further opening forms another crack, it heals. Etc over and over again, forming the "thread" that we see inside such a crystal. Later, or perhaps even simultaneously, further quartz growth occurs on this "thread", quite possibly at several points at the same time, and this overgrowth eventually coalesces to varying degrees of completeness, forming the final crystal. The critical point here is that there is always a precursor crystal on which further growth occurs in crystallographic continuity. Thus I would say that it is ONE CRYSTAL. To take the other view to an extreme, if this is a crystal group, then so is any standard crystal which has more than one growth center (e.g. screw defects) at which new layers of material start growing. Almost any conceivable natural crystal would fit this description. Many faden crystals are not crystallographically perfect - they may even be curved - and are made up of a series of segments which are slightly out of alignment with each other. But so are many "single" crystals - galena and fluorite often show this mosaic structure. Thanks for the prompt, Tim. The "guru" has spoken >:^) Cheers, Pete >Hi All, > > >A question popped up in a discussion between a friend and myself yesterday. We >were talking about quartz Fadens, where the Faden forms a template upon which >quartz can later grown. The crystal or crystals which grow around the Faden >eventually grow large enough to join. They are crystallographically oriented >(except perhaps for minor lattice defects). Would the final product be >considered a single crystal, or an aggregate of parallel crystals? I could >image other instances where the same question would apply. I guess what the >question really boils down to is: is a crystal defined by its end state or by >how it formed (i.e. from a single or multiple oriented seeds)? We both felt >that it would be best classified as a single crystal but I was curious what >others might have to say. > > >Happy Collecting, >Ronnie Van Dommelen > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh From rpr at nike.heidelberg.edu Tue Apr 5 07:53:22 2005 From: rpr at nike.heidelberg.edu (Pete Richards) Date: Tue Apr 5 07:53:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] identification In-Reply-To: <20050402213935.70017.qmail@web30404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050402213935.70017.qmail@web30404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Given your description, I suspect it is silicon carbide, which occurs as black hexagonal tabular crystal aggregates that often have irridescence in the blues and greens. It is synthetic, and is produced for use as an abrasive. Pete Richards >Hi, I am tyring to identify a mineral that I was told was Silicium from Poland. It is prismatic blue/black/green. If it is Silicium, is it natural or lab grown? > >Thank you for any help, >Craig. > > > > >--------------------------------- >Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/mixed > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > image/pjpeg > image/pjpeg >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Tue Apr 5 08:20:04 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Tue Apr 5 08:20:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Amethyst, citrine and ametrine In-Reply-To: <004f01c538ad$9b0a2c40$2eeaa5d8@rock5> References: <004f01c538ad$9b0a2c40$2eeaa5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <4252ACA4.6040207@tenforward.com> Hi Rock, I just wanted to thank you for your time and consideration when posting to this group. Your informed and first hand information is so refreshing. The link for the ametrine from your posting below was great too. I learned something and then thrilled as I took the mine tour and visited a massive crystal lined pocket. Great fun to begin the day by! Thanks again and all the very best to you, John Rock Currier wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Rock Currier" >To: >Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 5:36 PM >Subject: Amethyst, citrine and ametrine > > > > >> In Rio Grande do Sul state, Brazil, the people involved in the >> >> >amethyst > > >>and agate business regularly convert tons of amethyst to "citrine" by >>heating it in home made ovens. I have been told the temperature of the >>conversion is near the top end of what our home kitchen ovens can achieve. >>For anyone interested I would suggest an experiment. Take a low grade >>fragment of Brazilian amethyst, stick it in the oven and turn it on high >> >> >for > > >>a few hours like you were cooking a large turkey and see what happens. I >> >> >can > > >>find out the conversion temperatures that are used in Brazil, but you out >>there are lazy and I want to make you do the experiment and report it to >> >> >us > > >>here in the chat group. >> To convert the large amethyst geodes into citrine geodes, the cutting >>edge treatment in Brazil is to bring the oven to the amethyst geodes and >> >> >to > > >>cook them in place rather than move them in and out of the oven. Cooking >> >> >the > > >>amethyst make the whole specimen weaker and more susceptible to cracking. >>When importing citrine geodes, we always have a higher breakable rate than >>we do with the amethyst geodes. >> The amethyst from the various localities around Artigas, Uruguay are >>also treated in this fashion from time to time. The people involved in the >>gem trade in RGS and Uruguay there who want to make "citrine", first facet >>the amethyst stones into finished gems, put them in sand and then put them >>in temperature controlled kilns to convert the amethyst to citrine. The >> >> >sand > > >>evens out the temperature changes and helps prevent thermal cracking from >>too rapid a temperature change. I suspect that that like most chemical >>reactions, the amethyst/citrine conversion is temperature mediated and >> >> >that > > >>at higher temperatures, the conversion process takes place more quickly >> >> >and > > >>therefore more economically. I had not heard before of the conversion of >>amethyst to citrine by burning it in a barrel, but believe that this >> >> >method > > >>of conversion is entirely possible. In Rio Grande Sul, it is speculated >> >> >that > > >>the first "citrine" was discovered by someone making a camp fire pit using >>some low grade faded amethyst specimens as some of the rocks around the >> >> >fire > > >>pit and then the next day noticing that the color in the amethyst had >>changed. This sounds reasonable. >> The "citrine" specimens from Rio Grande do Sul are obviously man made >>and not natural, but there are natural citrine crystals from other >>localities and especially when it comes to citrine gemstones it is not >>immediately apparent to me how one could determine if they are the product >>of heating in an oven or having been heated by some natural process in the >>ground. >> For those interested in the more technical side of what makes amethyst >>purple and citrine yellow/orange and what makes ametrine I would strongly >>you visit the following link which will take you to a site hosted by the >>California Institute of Technology and mainly the work of Dr. George >> >> >Rossman > > >>of that University. It is the most lucid and best written simple >> >> >explanation > > >>the coloration of amethyst, citrine and ametrine. >>http://minerals.gps.caltech.edu/AMETRINE/Index.htm >> >>Rock >> >> >> >> > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From DicksWi at northville.k12.mi.us Tue Apr 5 08:29:11 2005 From: DicksWi at northville.k12.mi.us (William Dicks) Date: Tue Apr 5 08:29:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] South Dakota Message-ID: I am a 1st time traveler to South Dakota. Mt Rushmore to be more specific. I am taking a 4 day, 4th of July weekend trip/group tour but see by the itinerary some open time. I plan to do a search for clubs and do some playing on google for possible collecting opportunities. Does anyone on the list have any suggestions for a 1st time visitors to the Rapid City area? Thank you in advance. (on or off list responses welcome) Bill Dicks MESTA Board Member There is a SCUBA diving Geologist who measures coral reef structures. He only works summers to avoid fridgid Winter cold periods. You might call him a .... Frost-Free Reef Ridge Rator From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Apr 5 08:40:30 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Apr 5 08:40:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] identification In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Silicon carbide? Very light, very hard (cuts glass) and warm to the touch... Turns up on every mineal show along with synthetic zincite and bismuth ;-))) Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Pete Richards Verzonden: dinsdag 5 april 2005 16:53 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] identification Given your description, I suspect it is silicon carbide, which occurs as black hexagonal tabular crystal aggregates that often have irridescence in the blues and greens. It is synthetic, and is produced for use as an abrasive. Pete Richards >Hi, I am tyring to identify a mineral that I was told was Silicium from Poland. It is prismatic blue/black/green. If it is Silicium, is it natural or lab grown? > >Thank you for any help, >Craig. > > > > >--------------------------------- >Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/mixed > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > image/pjpeg > image/pjpeg >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From agesilaus at gmail.com Tue Apr 5 08:46:37 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Apr 5 08:46:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] identification In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Warm to the touch!? Cold fusion or what ;-> Bryan On Apr 5, 2005 11:40 AM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Silicon carbide? Very light, very hard (cuts glass) and warm to the touch... > Turns up on every mineal show along with synthetic zincite and bismuth ;-))) > > Cheers > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Pete Richards > Verzonden: dinsdag 5 april 2005 16:53 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] identification > > > Given your description, I suspect it is silicon carbide, which occurs as > black hexagonal tabular crystal aggregates that often have irridescence in > the blues and greens. It is synthetic, and is produced for use as an > abrasive. > > Pete Richards > > >Hi, I am tyring to identify a mineral that I was told was Silicium from > Poland. It is prismatic blue/black/green. If it is Silicium, is it natural > or lab grown? > > > >Thank you for any help, > >Craig. > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > >Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >multipart/mixed > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > image/pjpeg > > image/pjpeg > >--- > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > -- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > R. Peter Richards > rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu > > Mineral collector > Crystallographer > SHAPE for the Macintosh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Apr 5 08:55:41 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Apr 5 08:55:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] identification In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>>>Warm to the touch!? Cold fusion or what ;-> Yes, but where are the neutrons??? You have to have a surplus of neutrons.... No, just kidding: I meant that it doesn't feel cold if you touch it. Bad heat conductivity? Axel From smkell45 at aol.com Tue Apr 5 09:27:23 2005 From: smkell45 at aol.com (smkell45@aol.com) Date: Tue Apr 5 09:27:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] identification In-Reply-To: References: <20050402213935.70017.qmail@web30404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8C708137B6AC6B5-2F0-2CE2@mblk-d46.sysops.aol.com> Hi. Have you hit the mineral with sw. While pure SiC doesn't fluoresce sometimes there are impurities that fluoresce. smkell -----Original Message----- From: Pete Richards To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 10:53:22 -0400 Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] identification Given your description, I suspect it is silicon carbide, which occurs as black hexagonal tabular crystal aggregates that often have irridescence in the blues and greens. It is synthetic, and is produced for use as an abrasive. Pete Richards >Hi, I am tyring to identify a mineral that I was told was Silicium from Poland. It is prismatic blue/black/green. If it is Silicium, is it natural or lab grown? > >Thank you for any help, >Craig. > > > > >--------------------------------- >Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/mixed > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > image/pjpeg > image/pjpeg >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From bg at his.com Tue Apr 5 10:33:00 2005 From: bg at his.com (Catherine Gaber) Date: Tue Apr 5 10:33:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] South Dakota In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <35f5dfa9f4ba196cc7ace30c3f7c7fff@his.com> Murdo, SD, the home of the National Rockhound and Lapidary Hall of Fame, is about 150 miles east of Rapid City. It is co-housed in the Pioneer Auto Show at I-90 Exit 192. For more info try http://www.rockhoundhalloffame.org/. Some of June Culp Zeitner's collection is there too. Cathy On Apr 5, 2005, at 11:29 AM, William Dicks wrote: > Does anyone on the list have any suggestions for a 1st time visitors to --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Tue Apr 5 11:25:27 2005 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Tue Apr 5 11:25:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] South Dakota In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200504051825.j35IPgAY016875@bubbleator.drizzle.com> If you are coming from The East, it's always worthwhile to look for agates east of the Badlands Natl. Park (NOT in the Park ). The Dorothy and I spent a wonderful couple of hours bent over looking at the ground! GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > William Dicks > Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 10:29 AM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] South Dakota > > I am a 1st time traveler to South Dakota. Mt Rushmore to be > more specific.... From tkrassmann at hotmail.com Tue Apr 5 12:03:22 2005 From: tkrassmann at hotmail.com (Thomas Krassmann) Date: Tue Apr 5 12:03:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Panoramic images of giant halite cubes Message-ID: Hello from Bavaria some weeks ago we visited the Merkers potash mine in Thuringia / Germany, which is famous for its 1 m large halite cubes. We took some panoramic images there to document this great vug, which you may view at http://giantcrystals.strahlen.org/3dpano/merkers3d.htm More information on the halite cubes can be found at http://giantcrystals.strahlen.org/europe/merkers.htm Dont miss out the other new sites and additions on the Giant Crystal Project added in the last weeks Greetings and Gl?ck Auf Thomas _________________________________________________________________ Nicht lange suchen ? finden! MSN Suche. http://search.msn.de/ Jetzt testen! From tjflex2 at yahoo.ca Tue Apr 5 12:52:54 2005 From: tjflex2 at yahoo.ca (Craig Elliott) Date: Tue Apr 5 12:52:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] identification In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050405195254.60302.qmail@web30408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thank you everybody for the info. It is Silicon carbide. Where do they grow this? Craig. J Bryan Kramer wrote: Warm to the touch!? Cold fusion or what ;-> Bryan On Apr 5, 2005 11:40 AM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Silicon carbide? Very light, very hard (cuts glass) and warm to the touch... > Turns up on every mineal show along with synthetic zincite and bismuth ;-))) > > Cheers > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Pete Richards > Verzonden: dinsdag 5 april 2005 16:53 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] identification > > > Given your description, I suspect it is silicon carbide, which occurs as > black hexagonal tabular crystal aggregates that often have irridescence in > the blues and greens. It is synthetic, and is produced for use as an > abrasive. > > Pete Richards > > >Hi, I am tyring to identify a mineral that I was told was Silicium from > Poland. It is prismatic blue/black/green. If it is Silicium, is it natural > or lab grown? > > > >Thank you for any help, > >Craig. > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > >Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >multipart/mixed > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > image/pjpeg > > image/pjpeg > >--- > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > -- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > R. Peter Richards > rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu > > Mineral collector > Crystallographer > SHAPE for the Macintosh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Apr 5 15:17:15 2005 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Tue Apr 5 15:17:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Intro, plus some questions... Message-ID: <00a401c53a2d$3ddf9790$12b4010a@warren> Hello, all - I've been reading your mail off and on for a while now, because my husband, John Siebel, is a subscriber. Generally, when I've had questions I'd simply post through his account, but his computer is off, and I have questions NOW, darn it, so I figured I'd sign up for my own account. Since we've moved to Idaho from the Portland OR/Vancouver WA area we've had a lot less time for rockhounding. (I think we got spoiled from all the places less than an hour away from Portland - lol) However, it's time for the annual "Heck it's Julie's birthday, it's way too early in the season but let's go rockhounding for a week anyway" trip. Next week we're going to visit the Boise area to hit those Idaho/Oregon border sites we've heard so much about. On the list for the trip is: Saturday or Sunday, April 8th or 9th - Santa ID, to Boise ID (These struck me as mostly drive-bys on the way down): -Cottonwood -Slate Creek -Ruby Rapids Garnet -Pinehurst Zeolites Boise Area: -Sheaville -Succor Creek -Coal Mine Basin Jasper -McBride -S. of Homedale -Sommercamp Road -Graveyard Point -Owyhee Friday, April 15th, Boise to Baker City, Oregon: -Vale Saturday, April 16th, Baker City, Oregon" -Baker City -Sumpter Sunday, April 17th, Baker City, Oregon to Santa, Idaho My questions are: --Have I bit off more than we can chew here? There are a lot of great sites to cover in this list. I want to make sure we have time to hit the important ones. --If someone has been to any or all of these sites, is there something that we should just skip or absolutely not miss? Do you have any suggestions as to where/what/how? (Hey, gimme a break - my Estwing swinging arm is out of practice - lol) --What am I missing that I'm going to shoot myself later for not hitting? Thanks for any help! Julie Siebel --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From murowchickj at umkc.edu Tue Apr 5 17:11:52 2005 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (James Murowchick) Date: Tue Apr 5 16:11:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] South Dakota In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Plan to visit the museum at the South Dakota School of Mines. It's free, and has a very nice collection of minerals and fossils on display. There is also a special section on pegmatite minerals. The museum also has quite a few spectacular fossils--including dinosaurs and ammonites from the regional Mesozoic rocks, diorama displays with skeletons of oreodonts, titanotheres, turtles and alligators from the Badlands, and an assortment of Paleozoic invertebrates. Books on the Black Hills geology are on sale in the museum. BTW--while the lawsuit over the ownership of the tyrannosaurus "Sue" was in court, the bones were kept in a vault at the School of Mines. When I teach a field geology course, we stay at SDSMT, so I've visited the museum many times, and it is always a treat. Jim Murowchick On 4/5/05 9:29 AM, "William Dicks" wrote: > I am a 1st time traveler to South Dakota. Mt Rushmore to be more > specific. > I am taking a 4 day, 4th of July weekend trip/group tour but see by the > itinerary some open time. > I plan to do a search for clubs and do some playing on google for > possible collecting opportunities. > Does anyone on the list have any suggestions for a 1st time visitors to > the Rapid City area? > Thank you in advance. > (on or off list responses welcome) > > > > > Bill Dicks > MESTA Board Member > > There is a SCUBA diving Geologist who measures coral reef structures. > He only works summers to avoid fridgid Winter cold periods. > You might call him a .... > Frost-Free Reef Ridge Rator > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From xossfs at yahoo.com Tue Apr 5 17:56:19 2005 From: xossfs at yahoo.com (Stephen Stover) Date: Tue Apr 5 17:56:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] identification In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050406005619.64663.qmail@web20023.mail.yahoo.com> It is grown in large balst furnaces. Then the material is crushed into fine sand to make everything form the non skid on your staircase to the balck sand paper you find in a hardware store. It can be pressed with glue into a wheel and used as grinding wheels and such. The crystals occasionly gorw when voids are found in the material used to create the SiC. The crystals are mcuh rarer now then they were a decade ago. My father has been selling this stuff since the late 70's. Mcuh of the material now comes out of China however we do make alot in the US and Europe. --- Craig Elliott wrote: > Thank you everybody for the info. It is Silicon > carbide. Where do they grow this? > > Craig. > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > Warm to the touch!? Cold fusion or what ;-> > > Bryan > > On Apr 5, 2005 11:40 AM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > > Silicon carbide? Very light, very hard (cuts > glass) and warm to the touch... > > Turns up on every mineal show along with synthetic > zincite and bismuth ;-))) > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens > Pete Richards > > Verzonden: dinsdag 5 april 2005 16:53 > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for > rock and gem collectors > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] identification > > > > > > Given your description, I suspect it is silicon > carbide, which occurs as > > black hexagonal tabular crystal aggregates that > often have irridescence in > > the blues and greens. It is synthetic, and is > produced for use as an > > abrasive. > > > > Pete Richards > > > > >Hi, I am tyring to identify a mineral that I was > told was Silicium from > > Poland. It is prismatic blue/black/green. If it is > Silicium, is it natural > > or lab grown? > > > > > >Thank you for any help, > > >Craig. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > > >Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > > > > > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > >multipart/mixed > > > multipart/alternative > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > text/html > > > image/pjpeg > > > image/pjpeg > > >--- > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > >Subscription Services: > > > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > -- > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > R. Peter Richards > > rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu > > > > Mineral collector > > Crystallographer > > SHAPE for the Macintosh > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --------------------------------- > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > Stephen F. Stover PH (281) 829-1102 xossfs@yahoo.com Wanting to hunt rocks and play games every day! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Personals - Better first dates. More second dates. http://personals.yahoo.com From rockcurrier at cs.com Sat Apr 2 16:36:35 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Tue Apr 5 18:14:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amethyst, citrine and ametrine References: <200504020159.j321x2qD026014@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <007301c537e5$31513050$2eeaa5d8@rock5> In Rio Grande do Sul state, Brazil, the people involved in the amethyst and agate business regularly convert tons of amethyst to "citrine" by heating it in home made ovens. I have been told the temperature of the conversion is near the top end of what our home kitchen ovens can achieve. For anyone interested I would suggest an experiment. Take a low grade fragment of Brazilian amethyst, stick it in the oven and turn it on high for a few hours like you were cooking a large turkey and see what happens. I can find out the conversion temperatures that are used in Brazil, but you out there are lazy and I want to make you do the experiment and report it to us here in the chat group. To convert the large amethyst geodes into citrine geodes, the cutting edge treatment in Brazil is to bring the oven to the amethyst geodes and to cook them in place rather than move them in and out of the oven. Cooking the amethyst make the whole specimen weaker and more susceptible to cracking. When importing citrine geodes, we always have a higher breakable rate than we do with the amethyst geodes. The amethyst from the various localities around Artigas, Uruguay are also treated in this fashion from time to time. The people involved in the gem trade in RGS and Uruguay there who want to make "citrine", first facet the amethyst stones into finished gems, put them in sand and then put them in temperature controlled kilns to convert the amethyst to citrine. The sand evens out the temperature changes and helps prevent thermal cracking from too rapid a temperature change. I suspect that that like most chemical reactions, the amethyst/citrine conversion is temperature mediated and that at higher temperatures, the conversion process takes place more quickly and therefore more economically. I had not heard before of the conversion of amethyst to citrine by burning it in a barrel, but believe that this method of conversion is entirely possible. In Rio Grande Sul, it is speculated that the first "citrine" was discovered by someone making a camp fire pit using some low grade faded amethyst specimens as some of the rocks around the fire pit and then the next day noticing that the color in the amethyst had changed. This sounds reasonable. The "citrine" specimens from Rio Grande do Sul are obviously man made and not natural, but there are natural citrine crystals from other localities and especially when it comes to citrine gemstones it is not immediately apparent to me how one could determine if they are the product of heating in an oven or having been heated by some natural process in the ground. For those interested in the more technical side of what makes amethyst purple and citrine yellow/orange and what makes ametrine I would strongly you visit the following link which will take you to a site hosted by the California Institute of Technology and mainly the work of Dr. George Rossman of that University. It is the most lucid and best written simple explanation the coloration of amethyst, citrine and ametrine. http://minerals.gps.caltech.edu/AMETRINE/Index.htm Rock ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 5:59 PM Subject: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 11, Issue 1 Send Rockhounds mailing list submissions to rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com You can reach the person managing the list at rockhounds-owner@lists.drizzle.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Rockhounds digest..." [Rockhounds-Digest] Today's Topics: 1. Cavansite availability (Rock Currier) 2. Re:North Carolina Collecting Opportunities (TomE61@aol.com) 3. Re:Texas Rockhounding -- Brief Observations (TomE61@aol.com) 4. RE: Re:North Carolina Collecting Opportunities (Tommy Armstrong) 5. Montana (John Siebel) 6. Re: making citrine (Kitty & Bill Heacox) 7. Re: making citrine (Horst Windisch) 8. SHAPE Programme (Horst Windisch) 9. Re: SHAPE Programme (Ronnie Van Dommelen) 10. Re: Thunderegg definition (JOHN STOCKWELL) 11. Re: Mark Liccini (Al Balmer) 12. Re: making citrine (Paul Hewitt) 13. longevity of stone (J. R. Hodel) 14. Re: Thunderegg definition (Tim Fisher) 15. AD: new list with rare platinoids (Ronald Werner) 16. Re: making citrine (Al Balmer) 17. RE: making citrine (Rik Dillen) 18. Re: longevity of stone (Carol J. Bova) 19. Re: longevity of stone (jjunkroski) 20. Billionaire Bill Gates Buys Rockhound Website: Drizzle.Com (MCGINNISG@aol.com) 21. Re: making citrine (Lanny) 22. Aluminum crystals (SMKELL45@aol.com) 23. Re: Aluminum crystals (Maurice de Graaf) 24. Fw: Home made diamonds (Jeanette Wimpee) 25. Re: making citrine (Glenn Wimpee) 26. Re: making citrine (Carol J. Bova) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:24:38 -0800 From: "Rock Currier" Subject: [Rockhounds] Cavansite availability To: Message-ID: <015e01c53661$f4796050$6901a8c0@rock3> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" The Question: Within the last years or so, I have noticed a large increase in the amount of cavansite for sale on many dealers' websites. Does anyone know the state of the Wagholi Quarry? Can we expect considerably more cavansite in the future? An answer: There are two and I am pretty sure three quarries that have produced cavansite specimens besides the original one near Wagholi which is a suburb of Pune (Poona). There may be even more localities that produce the material. I visited the site some years ago and the original find was a water filled shaft about 20 feet across in the center of the quarry floor that had been covered over with some steel rods and chain link fencing. The locals had bent up some of the covering and were climbing down in the pit a little ways to fill their water containers. It was a handy well for some of the locals. The original locality was a little hill in the quarry that the quarry owner had avoided working because the zeolite mineralization made the rock less hard and therefore less desirable for road fill and construction purposes. Since that time I was told the pit had been pumped out and dug even deeper to get more cavansite. I visited another locality less than a km away it was very much the same. The overall geology was simple sheet basalt, but within the basalt there appeared to be some sort of mineralized pipe comming up through the basalt filled with angular chunks of basalt and the breccia fragments that were covered with small stilbite crystals and occasionally cavansite. The stilbite was not very remarkable. The basalt is permeable to water which moves through the basalt slowly, but continuously. The water table is perhaps 20 or 30 feed deep depending on the area and when villages make wells, they just chop a big hole into the basalt, ten to 20 feet across and 10 to 30 feet below the depth of the water table and then wait a few days for it to fill up. They can then haul the water up in buckets or pump it out, but they can't do it too quickly or they will pump the well dry. So when they chase these "breccia pipes (if that is what they are)" down, water is quickly encountered and it has to be continually pumped out, which is just another irritation in the collecting process. Anyway the deeper they dig, the more difficult it is to make a profit. I don't think any of the cavansite localities are more than 50 or 60 feet deep. Originally the cavansite was controlled by one guy, but that has changed and more than one supplier has the material from time to time and that means more material, competition and cheaper prices. I suspect that from time to time other cavansite localities will be discovered as well. If you could use some device to scan the basalt region from the air to detect vanadium and molybdenum you could probably locate many areas that would potentially produce cavansite, pentagonite and powlite. At any rate, judging from the huge size of the Deccan Basalts and the history of what has already been found there we can be certain that as long as the basalts have the population density of people living on then that they currently do, that more and better specimens of all the minerals from the region will be found. Rock ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:00:51 EST From: TomE61@aol.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:North Carolina Collecting Opportunities To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Message-ID: <149.426d0317.2f7e1363@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Tim, I am planning a trip to North Carolina either early May or late September and had done some extensive research about collecting opportunities there. Unfortunately, I'm sitting here lounging in Hill Country, Bandera, TX and don't have access to my research, which is back in NYC. Also, I'm plagued with a really slow internet connection. On the positive side, I can see stars in the sky that I never knew existed, I've bonded with horses, deer, sheep and some wild birds and I've collected (free of charge) more jasper, agate, petrified wood and fossils than I know what to do with. But that's another story. Here are some suggestions off the top of my head: 1. Contact the local Chamber of Commerce. My experience is that they are very helpful and if they don't easily know the answers to your questions, they invariably know someone who knows someone who knows someone else. This is particularly true in areas where there are fee collecting sites and mines that cater to family day trips. 2. Search for rock & mineral clubs in NC (there are several of them) and e-mail them and ask for good collecting opportunities and/or places to visit with your family. For a variety of reasons (again, another story), I had avoided planning any trip to the so-called famous fee collecting sites in NC because I believe they are generally "salted" and like many similar sites in the northeast, promise a lot more than they actually deliver. Nothing, in my opinion, is more frustrating than to drive to a location, pay a hefty entrance fee and come away with a handful of pebbles. And the promise of finding that huge sapphire or emerald is enticing, but its like telling someone who plans a trip to Las Vegas: "well, we had a huge jackpot winner last week." It COULD happen to you as well. YEAH, Right ! I do remember that Franklin County in NC has an interesting geology and poses some good chances to collect. Asheville and environs are about an hour from Linville Caverns (good choice, by the way) and might be a possibility for you to consider. Here is some other information I was able to retrieve. I can't vouch for the current status or accuracy of the information (I haven't gotten that far yet), but you might find something worthwhile in here: _http://www.nb.net/~downs/sites/nc.htm_ (http://www.nb.net/~downs/sites/nc.htm) In Asheville, there is a museum dedicated to gems and minerals. Its called the Colburn Gem and Mineral Museum (2 South Pack Square) and is open year round. In Franklin, which I estimate to be about 30-40 miles from Asheville, there are two (2) museums (Franklin Gem and Mineral Museum & Ruby City Gems) both on Main Street. _http://www.geology.enr.state.nc.us/Gold%20brochure/Gold%20Brochure%20122220 00 .htm_ (http://www.geology.enr.state.nc.us/Gold%20brochure/Gold%20Brochure%20122220 00.htm) _http://www.visitsmokies.org/Activities/GemMining.html_ (http://www.visitsmokies.org/Activities/GemMining.html) _http://members.aol.com/flagman55/MaineMineralLink.html_ (http://members.aol.com/flagman55/MaineMineralLink.html) This is not NC specific, but a pretty useful site nonetheless. _http://www.gamineral.org/commercial-sites.htm_ (http://www.gamineral.org/commercial-sites.htm) Not just GA, but NC & SC as well. _http://gw.ehnr.state.nc.us/faq.htm_ (http://gw.ehnr.state.nc.us/faq.htm) Please note that I was able to retrieve this information from previously sent e-mails, so I don't have my notes or comments handy. Good luck, have a safe and pleasant trip. Be sure to take sunscreen and insect repellent. Don't miss out on the wildflowers which I am told are just beginning to bloom (slowly, but surely). I'd love to see a report on what you and your family did and were able to find. I had previously thought about sending Tim this information outside of the community, but I reasoned that perhaps others could benefit as well, and in exchange, share some good collecting opportunities with the members. I apologize to those who may feel that their bandwidth was violated or have no intention of ever going to NC. Warmest Regards, Tom Russell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:32:05 EST From: TomE61@aol.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:Texas Rockhounding -- Brief Observations To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Message-ID: <46.66775a95.2f7e1ab5@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I wanted to post some brief observations about my trip to San Antonio, TX this past week in case any of you are interested or planning a vacation there. Please feel free to contact me outside the forum if you need more details, want more information or have any questions. We are actually in Bandera County, northwest of San Antonio. Its the cowboy capital of the world. It is SUPER rural, with very little that resembles a large city. However, the huge ranches, the clean air, the crystal clear stars in the sky, the deer that say hello are all good reasons to at least visit here. And then there's the collecting. I know that Texas is famous for topaz and llanite (a form of granite unique to LLano County that has beautiful blue quartz inclusions in it), but I didn't have any tools with me, and gas being as expensive as it is, I stayed somewhat local. The area in and around Bandera is chock full of flint, jasper, agates and petrified wood. The road cuts are expansive. Fossils abound almost everywhere. I confess that I don't know enough about flint, fossils, etc, since I hadn't been previously interested, but the collecting opportunities are enormous. And I will certainly be doing a lot more research about the treasures I uncovered. What amazed me was that the towns in and around Bandera encourage collecting and stopping on the roadside to look for treasures (this is a violation of state law in NY where I come from and it took some getting used to). What amazed me even more was the complete depth of knowledge that ALL the locals have about fossils, flint, etc. and areas where they can direct you to collect. From late teens to twilight ranchers, everyone had something to share and their information was invaluable. But what amazed me most was the attitude here.....cowboys, cowgirls, cops and ranchers all took a LOT of time to ask me what I was looking for and give me suggestions where else to go. There is a very clear absence of 9-5 mentality here, which I find very refreshing. Tomorrow (Friday, April 1, 2005) we are heading to the San Antonio Gem & Mineral show. I am looking forward to it. Apparently the proceeds are used to finance scholarships for kids and I can think of NO better way to use the money from our purchases. Speaking of proceeds, I would strongly encourage AVOIDING the Alamo Rock Shop, which is about 15 - 20 minutes from downtown San Antonio. Its a nice location, with some nice stuff, but the prices are terribly inflated (I'm from NYC so I know about inflated prices) and I wouldn't think of spending that kind of money. For example, rose quartz is $10 a pound, regular quartz is $8 a pound, topaz, sapphire and emerald (ALL rough) are $2.00 / gram and the same specimens that I collected for free are selling in the range of $2.00 - $15.00 per pound. And these are reduced prices, by the way ! Notwithstanding my love of this hobby, my belief in free enterprise and the capitalist system is often tempered by a distaste for felonious price gouging and profit seeking. Finally, even the fast food places here (McDonalds, Jack in the Box, etc.) have nice landscaping areas that contain excellent samples. I asked the managers in several places if I could collect a bit and they all said, sure, no problem. Regards, Tom Russell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:46:50 -0500 From: "Tommy Armstrong" Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re:North Carolina Collecting Opportunities To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Message-ID: <20050401034632.ZXJQ4801.imta01a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="US-ASCII" I found the Reed Gold Mine a very good place to go--I would highly recommend it. They have a panning station there also and if it is fresh dirt after a wet winter, you might actually find something. I think I remember that they offer salted and unsalted. But it is kind of neat to pan gold where the first gold rush in America started. The tour is pretty interesting and short enough so rest of family should not get bored. It is a state park so under administration of North Carolina and is considered a state historic site. It is a pretty good ways from GF Mt. though. Make sure to go by Spruce Pine and number of rockshops. There is also a museum right on the Parkway and the intersection of the highway that goes to Spruce Pines and has collection and displays about the. Good for quick visit and bath room run. It is run by the Parkway. Hugh Morton, the owner of GF Mountain was a big mineral collector and from what I gather, his collection is on display at GF Mountain. Pay especial attention to the bridge that goes around GF Mountain--very nice bridge and the result of a long drawn out lawsuit. Linville Caverns is a nice, but small cavern--not like the biggies, but I found it interesting. Right close to Spruce Pines in Little Switzerland is a good restaurant--a bit upscale but overlooks the valley. It is attached to the motel and I liked the place the last time went with my wife. Bit higher than some of the others but still reasonable. In Asheville is the Colburn Mineral Museum which is nice and right in downtown Asheville with all the good restaurants. Really good French bakery there for snacks. The Raleigh Gem and Mineral Show is in Raleigh, a long way away. Also at the Museum of Natural History in Raleigh is the finest collection of NC minerals ever assembled in its own new Gallery through July, I think--an anonymous collector "donated it". Some really incredible NC rocks including one of the cut emeralds. I don't know how long you are planning on making the trip. Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 www.brickengraver.com The search is what anyone would undertake if he were not sunk in the everydayness of his own life. To become aware of the possibility of the search is to be onto something. Not to be onto something is to be in despair. Walker Percy -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Timothy B Strong Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:57 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] NC Bound I am heading to NC this weekend. Was wondering if the Reed Gold Mine is a good place to visit. I am also taking my family to Linville Caverns and Grandfather MT. are there any places besides the pay ones to do any collecting? _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Timothy B Strong Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:57 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] NC Bound I am heading to NC this weekend. Was wondering if the Reed Gold Mine is a good place to visit. I am also taking my family to Linville Caverns and Grandfather MT. are there any places besides the pay ones to do any collecting? _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of TomE61@aol.com Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:01 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:North Carolina Collecting Opportunities Tim, I am planning a trip to North Carolina either early May or late September and had done some extensive research about collecting opportunities there. Unfortunately, I'm sitting here lounging in Hill Country, Bandera, TX and don't have access to my research, which is back in NYC. Also, I'm plagued with a really slow internet connection. On the positive side, I can see stars in the sky that I never knew existed, I've bonded with horses, deer, sheep and some wild birds and I've collected (free of charge) more jasper, agate, petrified wood and fossils than I know what to do with. But that's another story. Here are some suggestions off the top of my head: 1. Contact the local Chamber of Commerce. My experience is that they are very helpful and if they don't easily know the answers to your questions, they invariably know someone who knows someone who knows someone else. This is particularly true in areas where there are fee collecting sites and mines that cater to family day trips. 2. Search for rock & mineral clubs in NC (there are several of them) and e-mail them and ask for good collecting opportunities and/or places to visit with your family. For a variety of reasons (again, another story), I had avoided planning any trip to the so-called famous fee collecting sites in NC because I believe they are generally "salted" and like many similar sites in the northeast, promise a lot more than they actually deliver. Nothing, in my opinion, is more frustrating than to drive to a location, pay a hefty entrance fee and come away with a handful of pebbles. And the promise of finding that huge sapphire or emerald is enticing, but its like telling someone who plans a trip to Las Vegas: "well, we had a huge jackpot winner last week." It COULD happen to you as well. YEAH, Right ! I do remember that Franklin County in NC has an interesting geology and poses some good chances to collect. Asheville and environs are about an hour from Linville Caverns (good choice, by the way) and might be a possibility for you to consider. Here is some other information I was able to retrieve. I can't vouch for the current status or accuracy of the information (I haven't gotten that far yet), but you might find something worthwhile in here: _http://www.nb.net/~downs/sites/nc.htm_ (http://www.nb.net/~downs/sites/nc.htm) In Asheville, there is a museum dedicated to gems and minerals. Its called the Colburn Gem and Mineral Museum (2 South Pack Square) and is open year round. In Franklin, which I estimate to be about 30-40 miles from Asheville, there are two (2) museums (Franklin Gem and Mineral Museum & Ruby City Gems) both on Main Street. _http://www.geology.enr.state.nc.us/Gold%20brochure/Gold%20Brochure%20122220 00 .htm_ (http://www.geology.enr.state.nc.us/Gold%20brochure/Gold%20Brochure%20122220 00.htm) _http://www.visitsmokies.org/Activities/GemMining.html_ (http://www.visitsmokies.org/Activities/GemMining.html) _http://members.aol.com/flagman55/MaineMineralLink.html_ (http://members.aol.com/flagman55/MaineMineralLink.html) This is not NC specific, but a pretty useful site nonetheless. _http://www.gamineral.org/commercial-sites.htm_ (http://www.gamineral.org/commercial-sites.htm) Not just GA, but NC & SC as well. _http://gw.ehnr.state.nc.us/faq.htm_ (http://gw.ehnr.state.nc.us/faq.htm) Please note that I was able to retrieve this information from previously sent e-mails, so I don't have my notes or comments handy. Good luck, have a safe and pleasant trip. Be sure to take sunscreen and insect repellent. Don't miss out on the wildflowers which I am told are just beginning to bloom (slowly, but surely). I'd love to see a report on what you and your family did and were able to find. I had previously thought about sending Tim this information outside of the community, but I reasoned that perhaps others could benefit as well, and in exchange, share some good collecting opportunities with the members. I apologize to those who may feel that their bandwidth was violated or have no intention of ever going to NC. Warmest Regards, Tom Russell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 19:51:31 -0600 From: "John Siebel" Subject: [Rockhounds] Montana To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <001901c53594$2e53c140$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Julie and I are driving from northern Idaho to central Montana (Grass Range, SE of Lewistown) next week for J's birthday. I expect to dig a lot of calcite and marine fossils while we're there but I'm wondering if anyone has a favorite collecting site along the way. We'll stay in Helena the first night (unfortunately, no time to dig sapphire) and Butte on our way back. Expecting to stop by Crystal Park. Any other suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks - John ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:28:31 -1000 From: Kitty & Bill Heacox Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] making citrine To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050331181338.02630368@incoming.verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed We are going to display our ignorance here, but can someone explain what is involved with citrine being created by heating? Bill says he is making a WAG that the color of amethyst is caused by iron, and that heating will cause a change from ferric to ferrous---or vice versa---by a process of oxidation or reduction (not sure which) of the iron in the quartz. He says PDLTL (Please don't laugh too loud). I also would like to know what happens in nature to make it possible for citrine and amethyst to occur together. I have a piece that was called "ametrine" because one half of it is amethyst, and the other half citrine, and the line between the two colors is absolutely sharp---no blending at all. And if my question is dumb, I'll say PDLTL also. Aloha, Kitty At 03:07 PM 3/31/2005, you wrote: >Paul Hewitt wrote: > >>I have read that citrine can be created by heating amethyst for awhile. >>What I have been unable to find is how hot you have to get it and for how >>long. Is it something that can be done in a conventional oven or do you >>need something like a ceramic kiln? >The garimpeiros at the amethyst mine at Alto Bonita, close to me here in >Para, Brasil, layer amethyst with charcoal and then set fire to the lot, >in a 45 gal. drum. Not the most controlled way to make citrine, but the >amethyst from this location is noted for making nicely deep yellow >citrines. I believe this was mentioned on the site of the late Mark >Liccini as mentioned by others. ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 20:50:13 +0200 From: "Horst Windisch" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] making citrine To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <000101c5367f$e2c7f970$594227c4@privatehome> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Have seen the process in Namibia in the mid-sixties. Don't remember too much about it, but here the amethyst was heated in metal drum filled with burning coal.I was given to understand that it was a slow process Horst ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Hewitt" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:05 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] making citrine >I have read that citrine can be created by heating amethyst for awhile. >What I have been unable to find is how hot you have to get it and for how >long. Is it something that can be done in a conventional oven or do you >need something like a ceramic kiln? > > Paul in Marietta > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 13:38:58 +0200 From: "Horst Windisch" Subject: [Rockhounds] SHAPE Programme To: "rockhounds" Message-ID: <000401c536b3$0d18eb70$014127c4@privatehome> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Hi List, I am looking for information on what latest version of the SHAPE computer drawing system for crystals is on the market and itif it is still avalable. Is there perhaps any similar programme on the market? Name, what price and supplier please. Horst --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 09:05:16 -0400 From: Ronnie Van Dommelen Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] SHAPE Programme To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <1112360716.424d470cc8c7f@my1.dal.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Horst, They have a website with all of their products and prices: http://www.shapesoftware.com/ There is another program that I have used called Crystal.m. It works with Mathematica which you might have access to. I believe it has fewer features than Shape but still does quite a bit and being in Mathematica you can program around it if you like. http://www.joerg-enderlein.de/crystal/crystal.html Ronnie Quoting Horst Windisch : > Hi List, > > I am looking for information on what latest version of the SHAPE computer > drawing system for crystals is on the market and itif it is still avalable. > > Is there perhaps any similar programme on the market? Name, what price and > supplier please. > > Horst > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 20:08:52 -0800 From: "JOHN STOCKWELL" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Thunderegg definition To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Whether or not Paul Colburn's account is correct in every respect, it is CERTAINLY the case that neither thundereggs nor geodes are in any sense "volcanic projectiles!" What we know as "volcanic bombs" ARE "projectiles." ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Fisher To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Thunderegg definition Just a comment: #1 is incorrect. See Paul Colburn's excellent material on thunderegg formation at http://www.zianet.com/geodekid/whatarel.htm : Commonly known as thundereggs, lithophysae (Latin for "rock bubbles") originate as spheroids drawn from the rhyolite into the immiscible components of co-eruptive rhyolite-perlite lava flows and domes. Portions of rhyolite are pulled by turbulence or buoyancy from the parent rhyolite into the perlite, forming spheres which, as temperatures drop to a critical point, crystallize, driving dissolved gases out of solution. Over many millions of years, the hollow lithophysae fill with silica-laden water through fill-tubes in their surfaces, silicifying their rhyolite shells, and decomposing the perlite surrounding them. At 08:14 AM 3/31/2005, you wrote: >Hi all, > >My take on this is: > >1. Thunder Egg: A volcanic projectile that has cooled fast so that it >forms solid quartz mass inside. Because of differential cooling it forms a >"rind" around the quartz-agatized (?)-material inside. > > > >2. Geode: A volcanic projectile that has cooled more slowly than the >thunder egg and has an air pocket inside. The resultant differential >cooling allows the growth of crystals inside the air pocket. The outside >rind cools quickest, then a material similar to the thunder egg is formed >but the cooling is slow enough to form crystals inside the air pocket. > > > >3. Vug: Lava flowing form a volcano forms air pockets. It could be just >air (superheated) or water (again superheated) that forms the air pocket. >Due to the differential cooling caused by the air pocket crystals grow >from the surrounding material and a thin rind is formed from the same >material. Usually the rind material is still super hot forming a glass >material. Since the lava is basalt the rind is a very dark glass. I don't >know if one can call it obsidian, however, if it is not it is very similar. > > > >4. Just as a side note, crystal or agate formed from the above processes >can contain other elements (metals mostly) that change the composition of >the SiO4. A color change then takes place that can change the properties >of the quartz to form other genre of mineral. > > > >At the Walker Valley site I have taken "pieces" of what I would term vug >material similar to what is shown in the photo on the WSMC site in excess >of 6 inches in length and 4 inches in width. That's a big air pocket, but >I bet there are bigger ones there. > > > >BTW: The "companion" Dri referred to is I, > >Robynne Elske, Rank Amateur, but I read a lot! > > >"A slave is one who waits for someone to come and free him" >~ Ezra Pound >[If you're happy and know it, clank your chains!] Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 09:12:25 -0700 From: Al Balmer Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mark Liccini To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <424D72E9.2010608@att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Carol J. Bova wrote: > Hi Al, > Our adventuring friend is alive and well! He's settled down a bit, > married and has a little boy now. I just had a note from him the other > night. I owe him a reply, so I'll see if anything's happening on the > writing front and let you know. > Carol > Thanks for the update. Hmmm... I wonder just what "settling down" means for him? > Carol J. Bova > The Eclectic Lapidary > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com > > > On Thursday, March 31, 2005, at 06:12 PM, Al Balmer wrote: > >> Carol, as long as we're reminiscing, what's the story on Justice >> Malanot? Is he still wandering around Africa and writing fabulous >> stories? Has he ever published a book? >> ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 11:35:24 -0500 From: "Paul Hewitt" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] making citrine To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <000f01c536d8$ce4ebe30$6501a8c0@maingear> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Thanks to all that responded to my query. I checked out www.liccini.com and it is now www.minedirect.com. According to that website amethyst must be heated to 450 C but does not specify how long. That is 842 F which is way beyond my conventional oven. If people are doing it with wood in a barrel it must take a LONG time! I might just experiment with a couple of small pieces of amethyst in the oven to see what will happen though it probably wont be worth the cost of the electricity to do it. Paul in Marietta ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Balmer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:20 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] making citrine > Hans Durstling wrote: >> Hi Paul, >> >> Try to locate the remnants (or perhaps the whole thing, I have not seen >> it myself) of the late Mark Liccini's web site, which was I believe >> www.liccini.com. Mark had quite comprehensive information on the >> temperatures and durations of a whole variety of heat treatments. My >> understanding is that the site can still be accessed, either through a >> web archiving service, or by virtue of the site's having been taken over >> and carried on by someone else. The caveat is this is what I've been >> told. I've not gone looking for it myself; my information may no longer >> be accurate, and if it is, it may take some research by someone more net >> savvy than myself to find the it. >> > This URL now re-directs to http://www.minedirect.com/ .There is only a > little treatment information there, but the treatment page says "under > construction", so there may be more coming. It might be worthwhile > contacting the Mine Direct people to see if they have Mark's material > available in some other form. > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 09:03:22 -0800 (PST) From: "J. R. Hodel" Subject: [Rockhounds] longevity of stone To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Message-ID: <20050401170322.86361.qmail@web41004.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi all: We're preparing to select and order a memorial stone for a family cemetary plot. What stone, available from a standard commercial stoneyard, would you recommend, from the point of longevity? We're interested in carving the names/dates of family members so that the information is available for genealogical purposes long into the future. I know limestone and marble stones can erode away pretty fast, I've seen this in old cemetaries all over. Granite also erodes away sooner than you might think. Should we look for a really fine-grained granite, or perhaps an Indiana buff sandstone? The Indiana sandstone is cemented with quartz, isn't it? You economic geologists, pitch in on this conversation, please! Thanks, JR --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 09:22:44 -0800 From: Tim Fisher Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Thunderegg definition To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050401092132.026bf3e0@mail.spiritone.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed If Paul is not correct then I don't know who is. He has the support of three German geologists. No one in the US seems to care :( At 08:08 PM 3/31/2005, you wrote: >Whether or not Paul Colburn's account is correct in every respect, it is >CERTAINLY the case that neither thundereggs nor geodes are in any sense >"volcanic projectiles!" What we know as "volcanic bombs" ARE "projectiles." > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tim Fisher > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:34 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Thunderegg definition > > > Just a comment: #1 is incorrect. See Paul Colburn's excellent material on > thunderegg formation at http://www.zianet.com/geodekid/whatarel.htm : > > Commonly known as thundereggs, lithophysae (Latin for "rock bubbles") > originate as spheroids drawn from the rhyolite into the immiscible > components of co-eruptive rhyolite-perlite lava flows and domes. Portions > of rhyolite are pulled by turbulence or buoyancy from the parent rhyolite > into the perlite, forming spheres which, as temperatures drop to a > critical > point, crystallize, driving dissolved gases out of solution. Over many > millions of years, the hollow lithophysae fill with silica-laden water > through fill-tubes in their surfaces, silicifying their rhyolite shells, > and decomposing the perlite surrounding them. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 20:08:52 +0200 (CEST) From: Ronald Werner Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: new list with rare platinoids To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Message-ID: <1112378932.424d8e349919d@epost.start.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, We have received a new supply of platinoids. You can download the new list at: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/rare.microminerals/platinoids.html Other special offers you will find at: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/rare.microminerals/special.html We hope to be of service to you. Albert & Marianne Schrander Hettinga France ------------------------------------------------------------ F? din egen @start.no-adresse gratis p? http://www.start.no/ ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 11:21:57 -0700 From: Al Balmer Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] making citrine To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <424D9145.9050901@att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Paul Hewitt wrote: > Thanks to all that responded to my query. I checked out www.liccini.com > and it is now www.minedirect.com. According to that website amethyst > must be heated to 450 C but does not specify how long. That is 842 F > which is way beyond my conventional oven. If people are doing it with > wood in a barrel it must take a LONG time! I might just experiment with > a couple of small pieces of amethyst in the oven to see what will happen > though it probably wont be worth the cost of the electricity to do it. > If you have a self-cleaning oven, you might try putting it in through a cleaning cycle. I seem to remember that the cleaning cycle runs at about 900F. Don't use anything valuable ;-) ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 21:20:07 +0200 From: "Rik Dillen" Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] making citrine To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Message-ID: <200504011920.j31JK8iH026043@outmx010.isp.belgacom.be> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="US-ASCII" Hi all, I don't want to offend anyone on the list, but IMHO things are being mixed up a little bit. By heating amethyst you won't get any citrine in mineralogical terms. You would get just "burned amethyst", which is not to be considered as a mineral anymore. At our show anyway it is strictly forbidden to use the name "citrine" for this synthetic kind of material, because people that are not knowledgeable enough are often confused by the improper use of terms. The use of appropriate terminology is already complex enough. BTW I would label amethyst as "Quartz, var. amethyst". Mineralogically it is quartz after all, no less, no more. I'm wondering anyway why people want to change a nice amethyst into some brownish stuff loosing all its natural beauty. OK, boys (and girls), I know that some of you will disagree with my opinion, which I appreciate. I just have my opinion on this matter, no intention to get a flame war started :>)) Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 15:08:58 -0500 From: "Carol J. Bova" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] longevity of stone To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed How about a former cemetery manager's opinion? *g* I worked with a 150 year old cemetery in L.A. The marble markers literally were dissolving to the point of illegibility from the older burials. Even brand new marble benches showed etching from the rain in less than a year. So unless it's indoors, I don't recommend marble to anyone for a memorial. I'm curious why you think granite doesn't hold up over time? My experience was that a good professonal cleaning restored any of the old ones we worked with to like-new appearance, especially in hard-water areas that are irrigated. The only damage I've seen was occasional minor spalling on the edges, which was more likely from the way the stone was handled and polished, than the intrinsic nature of the granite, and it never went anywhere near the lettering. Other than Blue Pearl (which is a type of labradorite, from Norway) http://www.chooseby.com/mar_dett.php?cod_mar=2707 I don't think there's much else readily available other than marble and granite in the way of commercial monuments. Feel free to contact me offline if you have other concerns. I have some good friends in the monument business who would be happy to provide more information. Carol Carol J. Bova The Eclectic Lapidary http://www.eclecticlapidary.com On Friday, April 1, 2005, at 12:03 PM, J. R. Hodel wrote: > Hi all: > > We're preparing to select and order a memorial stone for a family > cemetary plot. What stone, available from a standard commercial > stoneyard, would you recommend, from the point of longevity? > > We're interested in carving the names/dates of family members so that > the information is available for genealogical purposes long into the > future. I know limestone and marble stones can erode away pretty > fast, I've seen this in old cemetaries all over. Granite also erodes > away sooner than you might think. > > Should we look for a really fine-grained granite, or perhaps an > Indiana buff sandstone? The Indiana sandstone is cemented with > quartz, isn't it? > > You economic geologists, pitch in on this conversation, please! > > Thanks, > > JR ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 14:56:07 -0600 From: jjunkroski Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] longevity of stone To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Here in Illinois I've seen a beautiful red and black augen gneiss, which I am told is the well-known "Morton Gneiss", one of the oldest rocks on the continent. It is used to face a number of large commercial buildings in downtown Chicago, where the pollution level must be very high, as well as for grave markers, and it appears to be very resistant. Another thought... how about bronze? Think of ancient archeological finds including buried coins which are still legible. "Junk" John Junkroski on 4/1/05 2:08 PM, Carol J. Bova at bova@mindspring.com wrote: > How about a former cemetery manager's opinion? *g* > > I worked with a 150 year old cemetery in L.A. The marble markers > literally were dissolving to the point of illegibility from the older > burials. Even brand new marble benches showed etching from the rain in > less than a year. So unless it's indoors, I don't recommend marble to > anyone for a memorial. > > I'm curious why you think granite doesn't hold up over time? My > experience was that a good professonal cleaning restored any of the old > ones we worked with to like-new appearance, especially in hard-water > areas that are irrigated. The only damage I've seen was occasional > minor spalling on the edges, which was more likely from the way the > stone was handled and polished, than the intrinsic nature of the > granite, and it never went anywhere near the lettering. > > Other than Blue Pearl (which is a type of labradorite, from Norway) > http://www.chooseby.com/mar_dett.php?cod_mar=2707 > I don't think there's much else readily available other than marble and > granite in the way of commercial monuments. > > Feel free to contact me offline if you have other concerns. I have some > good friends in the monument business who would be happy to provide > more information. > Carol > > Carol J. Bova > The Eclectic Lapidary > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com > > > > On Friday, April 1, 2005, at 12:03 PM, J. R. Hodel wrote: > >> Hi all: >> >> We're preparing to select and order a memorial stone for a family >> cemetary plot. What stone, available from a standard commercial >> stoneyard, would you recommend, from the point of longevity? >> >> We're interested in carving the names/dates of family members so that >> the information is available for genealogical purposes long into the >> future. I know limestone and marble stones can erode away pretty >> fast, I've seen this in old cemetaries all over. Granite also erodes >> away sooner than you might think. >> >> Should we look for a really fine-grained granite, or perhaps an >> Indiana buff sandstone? The Indiana sandstone is cemented with >> quartz, isn't it? >> >> You economic geologists, pitch in on this conversation, please! >> >> Thanks, >> >> JR > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 16:02:20 EST From: MCGINNISG@aol.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Billionaire Bill Gates Buys Rockhound Website: Drizzle.Com To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Message-ID: <148.41a569f2.2f7f10dc@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" April Fool... --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 14:34:04 -0800 From: Lanny Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] making citrine To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <274D88A2-A2FE-11D9-B858-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Hi Kitty, I was thinking that I had read somewhere a specific description as to how/why the Bolivian ametrine crystals formed, but can't find it. The closest thing I found was in an article by Werner Lieber on on twinning (Twins, Crystal Curiosities: Rocks & Minerals Sept.-Oct. 1999, Vol. 74-#5, p. 300-307). Although he doesn't address the issue as to why it forms, he does include an illustration of a cross section of an ametrine crystal used to illustrate the twinning of the amethyst. Nearly all amethyst shows Brazil law twinning. Brazil twinning is a type of penetration twinning that produces lamellae. You can see this in amethyst by the multitude of thin layers of lighter and darker colors. The photographs of the ametrine crystal cross section shows the twinning (lamellae) of the amethyst, but the alternating citrine sections have no twinning. Quartz crystallizes in the trigonal class of the rhombohedral subsection of the hexagonal system. Thus a quartz crystal is composed of two intergrown sets of 3 sections, the alternating + and - rhombs. With that in mind, it looks like in ametrine, one set crystallized with the Brazil twinning and amethyst, and the alternate set without the Brazil twinning and a citrine color. Regards, Lanny On Mar 31, 2005, at 8:28 PM, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > We are going to display our ignorance here, but can someone explain > what is involved with citrine being created by heating? Bill says he > is making a WAG that the color of amethyst is caused by iron, and that > heating will cause a change from ferric to ferrous---or vice > versa---by a process of oxidation or reduction (not sure which) of the > iron in the quartz. He says PDLTL (Please don't laugh too loud). > > I also would like to know what happens in nature to make it possible > for citrine and amethyst to occur together. I have a piece that was > called "ametrine" because one half of it is amethyst, and the other > half citrine, and the line between the two colors is absolutely > sharp---no blending at all. And if my question is dumb, I'll say > PDLTL also. > > Aloha, Kitty > > > At 03:07 PM 3/31/2005, you wrote: >> Paul Hewitt wrote: >> >>> I have read that citrine can be created by heating amethyst for >>> awhile. What I have been unable to find is how hot you have to get >>> it and for how long. Is it something that can be done in a >>> conventional oven or do you need something like a ceramic kiln? >> The garimpeiros at the amethyst mine at Alto Bonita, close to me here >> in Para, Brasil, layer amethyst with charcoal and then set fire to >> the lot, in a 45 gal. drum. Not the most controlled way to make >> citrine, but the amethyst from this location is noted for making >> nicely deep yellow citrines. I believe this was mentioned on the >> site of the late Mark Liccini as mentioned by others. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 17:48:27 EST From: SMKELL45@aol.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Aluminum crystals To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" E-bay has been auctioning off Natural Aluminum crystals. They call them natural. Are these "nature" in the same way as are those Bismuth crystals with the hoppered forms? smkell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 01:25:38 +0200 From: Maurice de Graaf Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Aluminum crystals To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <424DD872.6030001@xs4all.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed We had the same discussion on Mindat: http://www.mindat.org/msg-6-3151-3151.html SMKELL45@aol.com wrote: >E-bay has been auctioning off Natural Aluminum crystals. They call them >natural. Are these "nature" in the same way as are those Bismuth crystals with >the hoppered forms? smkell > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 19:17:50 -0600 From: "Jeanette Wimpee" Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Home made diamonds To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <008201c53721$c9bf19c0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Home Diamond Synthesis by Steve Russell, Member of Colorado Springs Mineralogical Society sprussell@... A fascinating event happened while I was attending the Tucson Show last year. I was in the room of Brazilian mineral dealer Joaquin Stick, and noticed a number of very nice, rather large diamond crystals for sale. When I inquired about them, I was introduced to an elderly gentleman sitting in the corner. This fascinating man was Professor Ilmeno Rutille, originally a professor of chemistry at the University of Bologna in Italy, but who had spent most of his professional career working for General Electric in their Diamond Synthesis Lab. Professor Rutille had synthesized all the diamond specimens I had seen in a laboratory in his home! I spent a very pleasant hour talking to this amazing man, and when I returned home, I began an e-mail correspondence with him. I?m afraid I pestered him for several months with questions about how these diamond crystals were grown, and finally he relented, saying he would show me the process if I would travel to his home laboratory in the mountains near Oakley, Kansas. It was late May when I arrived at Professor Rutille?s home, and after introducing me to his wife, he took me to his laboratory located behind his garage. I was immediately struck by the lack of large, sophisticated equipment one would expect to find in a lab capable of synthesizing diamonds. I asked Prof. Rutille where he made his diamonds, as there was not a single piece of technical equipment in the place. ?That is exactly why I asked you here,? he replied, ?Please sit down,? and he pointed to two chairs against the wall. We sat down, and he handed me some papers. ?It?s all explained here,? he said. While I looked at the papers, Prof. Rutille told a fascinating story. The early attempts to synthesize diamonds at the GE labs were a trial and error effort that did not succeed until it was discovered that with existing equipment, a catalyst was necessary to lower the temperature and pressure at which diamonds form. An amino acid present in animal muscle and fat tissue turned out to be the key. This was discovered when a technician was preparing samples to go into the furnace while eating a ham sandwich. A bit of ham contaminated the sample, but the technician went ahead with the test. The result was a diamond?small and very poor quality?but a diamond. This amino acid catalyst has been kept a secret ever since. The story continues in the 1980s when Prof. Rutille began work on a project in the GE Synthetic Stones Lab to synthesize elbaite tourmaline. The scientists added various metals to the chemical structure to change the color of the crystals. The results were disappointing, except in the case of copper. Adding copper produced a ?cuprian elbaite? of a beautiful, but rather unbelievable, teal blue color. Further research was discontinued because his superiors felt that gems cut from this material looked ?fake.? Prof. Rutille kept about half of the few hundred crystals produced, sending the rest to a mineral dealer friend in Paraiba, Brazil. Prof. Rutille wondered if copper might also produce a blue color in diamonds, and began a series of tests. The attempt to produce blue diamonds failed, but he found that the copper even more drastically reduced the temperature and pressure necessary to produce a diamond. In fact, a pressure of 650 pounds per square inch and a temperature of 112 degrees Fahrenheit were all that was necessary. This could be produced in a home laboratory! Prof. Rutille began to produce his own diamonds in his home lab, and those were the crystals I saw in Tucson. Prof. Rutille assured me that he would have grown rich selling diamond and never would have told me the details of how these diamonds were made if he had not been threatened by agents from GE and the De Beers Corporation a few weeks before my visit. He was so angry with his former employer that he asked me to publish his findings so that people everywhere could reproduce his results. I agreed, and below are instructions for synthesizing diamonds in your home or garage! Preparing the Sample copper pipe (the pipe and end caps are available at any home improvement center). Into the open end of the pipe, place 1.75 grams of the lunchmeat. This will provide the amino acid catalyst. Using a hammer or other tool, crumble the charcoal briquette into pieces small enough to fit into the copper pipe. Add exactly 4.2 grams of charcoal briquette, packing lightly with your finger (Photo 2). Note: DO NOT use briquettes with lighter fluid in them as this will contaminate the sample and cause a risk of fire or explosion! Add another 1.75 grams of lunchmeat on top of the packed charcoal briquette. Place the other end cap on the open end of the copper pipe, creating an enclosed container. Cut two round pieces of masking tape to fit the ends of the end caps, and place one piece of tape on each end cap (this will insulate the copper container from the jaws of the vice) (Photo 3). Creating the Diamond Note: Gloves and safety glasses should be worn during this step of the procedure! Place the copper container in the jaws of a large, heavy duty vice, one end cap against each jaw of the vice, and tighten enough to hold the container in place (Photo 4). Lay an accurate ruler across the top of the vice. It is necessary to close the vice one eighth of an inch to produce the necessary pressure. First, the container must be heated. Using the blow dryer on ?high? setting, heat the container for a minimum of two minutes. Now, while continuing to heat the container, begin to close the vice, slowly. Some effort will be required, but continue closing the vice until you have collapsed the container one eighth of an inch. Continue to heat the container with the blow dryer for a minimum of four more minutes. Don?t be surprised if you feel yourself getting hungry?it does smell like barbeque! After four minutes, the blow dryer may be turned off. Allow the container to cool for 30 minutes. Using a hacksaw, cut the container in half and remove your diamond! I know this leaves one question: What type of lunch-meat to use? I have experimented with several types, and I achieved my best results using pure baloney. Original Editor's note: If you are excited by the potential that the above article details, I recommend that you reevaluate the article. It is April, after all. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ------------------------------ Message: 25 Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 19:46:27 -0600 From: "Glenn Wimpee" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] making citrine To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <006d01c53725$c94d2140$6701a8c0@GlennWimpee> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Try putting your small amethyst specimen in a coffee or veggie can and fill with sand. Then put it, can and all, in a charcoal grill, surround with a thick (at least 2-3 brickettes all around) layer of charcoal and light the stuff. Be sure the can is completely surrounded with charcoal. Charcoal burns real hot, maybe someone on the list knows the actual temp. Cook a good steak on the grill and enjoy. Let the can of sand and amethyst stay till the charcoal burns completely and the whole grill and the sand cools. Carefully open the can. Observe and report to us on the list. And I did NOT stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Hewitt" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 10:35 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] making citrine > Thanks to all that responded to my query. I checked out www.liccini.com > and it is now www.minedirect.com. According to that website amethyst must > be heated to 450 C but does not specify how long. That is 842 F which is > way beyond my conventional oven. If people are doing it with wood in a > barrel it must take a LONG time! I might just experiment with a couple of > small pieces of amethyst in the oven to see what will happen though it > probably wont be worth the cost of the electricity to do it. > > Paul in Marietta > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Al Balmer" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:20 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] making citrine > > >> Hans Durstling wrote: >>> Hi Paul, >>> >>> Try to locate the remnants (or perhaps the whole thing, I have not seen >>> it myself) of the late Mark Liccini's web site, which was I believe >>> www.liccini.com. Mark had quite comprehensive information on the >>> temperatures and durations of a whole variety of heat treatments. My >>> understanding is that the site can still be accessed, either through a >>> web archiving service, or by virtue of the site's having been taken over >>> and carried on by someone else. The caveat is this is what I've been >>> told. I've not gone looking for it myself; my information may no longer >>> be accurate, and if it is, it may take some research by someone more net >>> savvy than myself to find the it. >>> >> This URL now re-directs to http://www.minedirect.com/ .There is only a >> little treatment information there, but the treatment page says "under >> construction", so there may be more coming. It might be worthwhile >> contacting the Mine Direct people to see if they have Mark's material >> available in some other form. >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ------------------------------ Message: 26 Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 21:03:10 -0500 From: "Carol J. Bova" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] making citrine To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <5CE8F024-A31B-11D9-9EC4-000A95773806@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Interesting idea, Glenn. If charcoal burns at temps in excess of 1100F.. would the sand keep the temps too high? http://www.montana.edu/wwwpb/pubs/mt8405.html Carol Carol J. Bova The Eclectic Lapidary http://www.eclecticlapidary.com On Friday, April 1, 2005, at 08:46 PM, Glenn Wimpee wrote: > Try putting your small amethyst specimen in a coffee or veggie can and > fill with sand. Then put it, can and all, in a charcoal grill, > surround with a thick (at least 2-3 brickettes all around) layer of > charcoal and light the stuff. Be sure the can is completely surrounded > with charcoal. Charcoal burns real hot, maybe someone on the list > knows the actual temp. > Cook a good steak on the grill and enjoy. > Let the can of sand and amethyst stay till the charcoal burns > completely and the whole grill and the sand cools. > Carefully open the can. Observe and report to us on the list. > And I did NOT stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. > > Glenn > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Hewitt" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 10:35 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] making citrine > > >> Thanks to all that responded to my query. I checked out >> www.liccini.com and it is now www.minedirect.com. According to that >> website amethyst must be heated to 450 C but does not specify how >> long. That is 842 F which is way beyond my conventional oven. If >> people are doing it with wood in a barrel it must take a LONG time! >> I might just experiment with a couple of small pieces of amethyst in >> the oven to see what will happen though it probably wont be worth the >> cost of the electricity to do it. >> >> Paul in Marietta ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Rockhounds mailing list Rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds End of Rockhounds Digest, Vol 11, Issue 1 ***************************************** From PKuhn59523 at aol.com Mon Apr 4 07:44:51 2005 From: PKuhn59523 at aol.com (PKuhn59523@aol.com) Date: Tue Apr 5 18:14:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? Message-ID: <19a.3110506e.2f82ace3@aol.com> didn't I see a banner around the Plymouth Meeting interchange saying that there was a rock/mineral show this coming weekend (April 20 - 21) at Lulu Temple? Couldn't find a confirmation on your website... help Pat --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Carole.Oinonen at allina.com Mon Apr 4 11:06:25 2005 From: Carole.Oinonen at allina.com (Oinonen, Carole A) Date: Tue Apr 5 18:14:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Minnesota Message-ID: <427DA4424855AE4A990F18823E9F4B4B09A6A9@XVS12.allina.com> Hi - I'm trying to find out how I can place an ad for a rock and mineral sale I would like to hold at my home. I have some wonderful specimens for lapidary that I had purchased many years ago when I was an active member of the Minnesota Mineral Club. Any information would be gratefully appreciated. Thank you. Carole Carole Oinonen QPDS, Risk Management and Infection Control Phone: 651.241.8416 Fax: 651.241.7489 MS 60313 This message contains information that may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tangojuli at yahoo.com Tue Apr 5 18:31:30 2005 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Tue Apr 5 18:31:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Thomas' Giant Halite In-Reply-To: <200504060104.j3614Gsh001784@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20050406013130.44624.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks for sharing that link to the halite. I got drawn to halite xls at Searles Lake. But those xls in your photo link are something out of SciFi movie! Thanks! --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From TomE61 at aol.com Tue Apr 5 20:09:13 2005 From: TomE61 at aol.com (TomE61@aol.com) Date: Tue Apr 5 20:09:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Trip to Argentina Message-ID: I'm traveling to Argentina from April 7 to April 15, 2005. Any advice or suggestions would be most appreciated. Especially looking for rock & mineral ideas or places to hound. But please don't feel limited to a geological scope. ANY advice would be welcome. I've done some considerable research but nothing beats hearing about personal experiences. Warmest Regards, Tom Russell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny at lrream.com Tue Apr 5 21:07:41 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Tue Apr 5 21:05:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Panoramic images of giant halite cubes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6BD724BE-A651-11D9-B858-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Thanks Thomas. Great photos, and really nice having the QuickTime VR images of the cave and crystals. Fabulous. Lanny On Apr 5, 2005, at 12:03 PM, Thomas Krassmann wrote: > Hello from Bavaria > > some weeks ago we visited the Merkers potash mine in Thuringia / > Germany, which is famous for its 1 m large halite cubes. We took some > panoramic images there to document this great vug, which you may view > at > > http://giantcrystals.strahlen.org/3dpano/merkers3d.htm > > More information on the halite cubes can be found at > > http://giantcrystals.strahlen.org/europe/merkers.htm > > Dont miss out the other new sites and additions on the Giant Crystal > Project added in the last weeks > > > Greetings and Gl?ck Auf > > Thomas > > _________________________________________________________________ > Nicht lange suchen ? finden! MSN Suche. http://search.msn.de/ Jetzt > testen! > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From tjflex2 at yahoo.ca Tue Apr 5 23:15:19 2005 From: tjflex2 at yahoo.ca (Craig Elliott) Date: Tue Apr 5 23:15:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] identification In-Reply-To: <20050406005619.64663.qmail@web20023.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050406061519.16767.qmail@web30408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks. I paid $10.00 each for the two 6"x7"x5" crystal formations I picked a few years ago. Any idea if that is a good price? I haven't seen any for sale since. Alot of people up here (Vancouver BC) ask me where to get them. Craig Stephen Stover wrote: It is grown in large balst furnaces. Then the material is crushed into fine sand to make everything form the non skid on your staircase to the balck sand paper you find in a hardware store. It can be pressed with glue into a wheel and used as grinding wheels and such. The crystals occasionly gorw when voids are found in the material used to create the SiC. The crystals are mcuh rarer now then they were a decade ago. My father has been selling this stuff since the late 70's. Mcuh of the material now comes out of China however we do make alot in the US and Europe. --- Craig Elliott wrote: > Thank you everybody for the info. It is Silicon > carbide. Where do they grow this? > > Craig. > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > Warm to the touch!? Cold fusion or what ;-> > > Bryan > > On Apr 5, 2005 11:40 AM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > > Silicon carbide? Very light, very hard (cuts > glass) and warm to the touch... > > Turns up on every mineal show along with synthetic > zincite and bismuth ;-))) > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens > Pete Richards > > Verzonden: dinsdag 5 april 2005 16:53 > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for > rock and gem collectors > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] identification > > > > > > Given your description, I suspect it is silicon > carbide, which occurs as > > black hexagonal tabular crystal aggregates that > often have irridescence in > > the blues and greens. It is synthetic, and is > produced for use as an > > abrasive. > > > > Pete Richards > > > > >Hi, I am tyring to identify a mineral that I was > told was Silicium from > > Poland. It is prismatic blue/black/green. If it is > Silicium, is it natural > > or lab grown? > > > > > >Thank you for any help, > > >Craig. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > > >Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > > > > > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > >multipart/mixed > > > multipart/alternative > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > text/html > > > image/pjpeg > > > image/pjpeg > > >--- > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > >Subscription Services: > > > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > -- > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > R. Peter Richards > > rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu > > > > Mineral collector > > Crystallographer > > SHAPE for the Macintosh > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --------------------------------- > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > Stephen F. Stover PH (281) 829-1102 xossfs@yahoo.com Wanting to hunt rocks and play games every day! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Personals - Better first dates. More second dates. http://personals.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From betdav97 at aol.com Wed Apr 6 07:49:34 2005 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Wed Apr 6 07:49:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Montebrasite Cut Stones Message-ID: <8C708CEFB4868B6-DE4-9C33@mblk-r33.sysops.aol.com> Hi All, I have two cut Montebrasites from Brazil in my collection that I am disposing of. One is a .68 cts., 4.0 x 6.4 mm, and the other is .69 cts., 5.0 x 5.0 mm. Both are a pale green and very brilliant. I am asking $25 a piece for them if anyone is interested. After doing some research on the net about them, this seems like a give away price. Thanks for reading, Dave Phillips Sunset Fossils & Minerals Morgantown, WV --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From bg at his.com Wed Apr 6 08:25:00 2005 From: bg at his.com (Catherine Gaber) Date: Wed Apr 6 08:25:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] arkansas diamonds Message-ID: <93a81a088ad7f622e29b476539947b76@his.com> Can anyone tell me if there is a way to determine if a diamond is from Arkansas? thanks, Cathy From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 6 11:21:39 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Wed Apr 6 11:21:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] arkansas diamonds In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050406182139.51159.qmail@web51003.mail.yahoo.com> I'm no expert, but I doubt it. Today, it's even difficult to tell whether a diamond is natural or synthetic! Jim Daly --- Catherine Gaber wrote: > Can anyone tell me if there is a way to determine if > a diamond is from > Arkansas? > > thanks, Cathy > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From Ted at crystalgems.com Wed Apr 6 11:29:55 2005 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted) Date: Wed Apr 6 11:29:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] arkansas diamonds In-Reply-To: <93a81a088ad7f622e29b476539947b76@his.com> Message-ID: <001d01c53ad6$9d7574a0$0200a8c0@gametime> Catherine: Not that I am aware of. One of the reasons that the GIA is asking diamond manufacturers to laser identify manmade diamonds is because they are so hard to separate from natural. There was an effort to identify terror diamonds, but I believe it didn't work out. On a different front: Arkansas diamonds have a certain color range with the majority of stones found being champagne color, a small portion are fancy yellow and a smaller portion are clear. I have been told by miners at Murfreesboro that the Arkansas diamonds are "tougher". That the crystals are "knotty" with intergrown crystals and that this causes problems in cutting (especially cleaving). It might be possible to identify these knots through observation of the inclusions, especially veils. To see these, you need at least 10X. Ted PS Digging for the diamonds is a hoot, though the field shocks many people... Think 100+ acres of blue gray soil all plowed up. It's like walking onto a giant farmers field that is completely barren... The sun heats up the area rather drastically (all that dark gray/blue soil) and temps shoot above ninety even on cool days. I spent some time watching and talking to the semi-pros who make it a paying job to dig for diamonds every day. They rarely take their finds in to be identified by the rangers and so are not counted in official tallies. I watched these guys actually find diamonds and one guy admitted that he might find one to three per day. Of these, only about one a week was worth enough to sell. To find these, the miners expect to soak, wash, sift, and pan seventeen to twenty 5 gallon buckets of dirt. -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Catherine Gaber Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 11:25 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com : A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] arkansas diamonds Can anyone tell me if there is a way to determine if a diamond is from Arkansas? thanks, Cathy _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From agesilaus at gmail.com Wed Apr 6 11:30:08 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Apr 6 11:30:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] arkansas diamonds In-Reply-To: <20050406182139.51159.qmail@web51003.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050406182139.51159.qmail@web51003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Well I'm no expert either, but after reading that book about the hunt for diamonds in Canada; I suspect that it could be identified but, perhaps only by destructive analysis. An it might be expensive even if not destructive. Bryan On Apr 6, 2005 2:21 PM, Jim Daly wrote: > I'm no expert, but I doubt it. Today, it's even > difficult to tell whether a diamond is natural or > synthetic! > Jim Daly > --- Catherine Gaber wrote: > > Can anyone tell me if there is a way to determine if > > a diamond is from > > Arkansas? > > > > thanks, Cathy > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From albalmer at att.net Wed Apr 6 11:50:05 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Apr 6 11:50:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] arkansas diamonds In-Reply-To: <001d01c53ad6$9d7574a0$0200a8c0@gametime> References: <001d01c53ad6$9d7574a0$0200a8c0@gametime> Message-ID: <42542F5D.1040608@att.net> Ted wrote: > PS Digging for the diamonds is a hoot, though the field shocks many > people... Think 100+ acres of blue gray soil all plowed up. It's like > walking onto a giant farmers field that is completely barren... The sun > heats up the area rather drastically (all that dark gray/blue soil) and > temps shoot above ninety even on cool days. I spent some time watching and > talking to the semi-pros who make it a paying job to dig for diamonds every > day. They rarely take their finds in to be identified by the rangers and so > are not counted in official tallies. I watched these guys actually find > diamonds and one guy admitted that he might find one to three per day. Of > these, only about one a week was worth enough to sell. To find these, the > miners expect to soak, wash, sift, and pan seventeen to twenty 5 gallon > buckets of dirt. > Some years ago, one of the pros told me that the preceding year had been very good - he had made a bit over $10,000. At the time, I would have considered four times that to be barely subsistence, even in Arkansas, but he was doing what he wanted to do :-) From edben at prodigy.net Wed Apr 6 12:43:15 2005 From: edben at prodigy.net (edben) Date: Wed Apr 6 12:43:30 2005 Subject: Fw: [Rockhounds] Show Announcement -- The Indian Mounds Rock andMineral Club Message-ID: <004801c53ae0$e2e54a10$b73c9e04@benjamin> Indian Mounds Rock & Mineral Club's ANNUAL SHOW is NOW!, April 7th through the 9th. Come on over, if you can, and enjoy your visit with us. Ed Benjamin (Editor Ed) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Cc: ; ; "LapidaryArtsDigest" ; Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 11:28 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Show Announcement -- The Indian Mounds Rock andMineral Club > The Indian Mounds Rock and Mineral Club is proud to announce that its > 30th Annual Gem and Mineral Show will be held on April 7, 8, and 9, > 2005, at Rogers Plaza Town Center Mall in Wyoming, Michigan. The doors > will be open from 9:30 am to 9:00 pm. Mark your calendar so you can join > us for this event. > > Rogers Plaza is located on 28th St., 1/4 mile west of US 131. Easy > freeway access. Free parking. Free admission. Wyoming is part of the > Greater Grand Rapids Metropolitan Area in West Michigan. > > The Club will be providing Exhibits and Demonstrations all three days. > We will have a Children's Table with Minerals and Grab Bags. About a > dozen Dealers will be present with their offerings of Rock and Mineral > specimens, Fossils, supplies, and finished lapidary works. > > I hope you can join us for this fun event. I would love to meet some of > the folks on the lists I participate in. > > > =========== > From rik.dillen at skynet.be Wed Apr 6 12:45:45 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Wed Apr 6 12:46:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collecting minerals in Malaysia Message-ID: <200504061945.j36Jjm6o025753@outmx022.isp.belgacom.be> Hi all, Does anyone have any type of information on collecting / purchasing / visiting activities in Western Malaysia (Malayan peninsula, not the Borneo part) ? Information on localities where minerals can be found, coordinates of dealers or collectors, museums, exporting mineral specimens (customs issues) or whatever information is welcome. Thanks and best regards, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jbf at jbfminerals.com Wed Apr 6 13:58:23 2005 From: jbf at jbfminerals.com (Jeff Fast) Date: Wed Apr 6 13:58:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Montebrasite Cut Stones References: <8C708CEFB4868B6-DE4-9C33@mblk-r33.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <001a01c53aeb$5efad6b0$171b0944@Dell2004> Dave, I am nterested. Are they basically eye clean or are they included? Jeff Fast www.jbfminerals.com (860) 985 - 6321 (USA) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 10:49 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Montebrasite Cut Stones > Hi All, > I have two cut Montebrasites from Brazil in my collection that I am > disposing of. One is > a .68 cts., 4.0 x 6.4 mm, and the other is .69 cts., 5.0 x 5.0 mm. Both > are a pale green > and very brilliant. I am asking $25 a piece for them if anyone is > interested. After doing > some research on the net about them, this seems like a give away price. > Thanks for > reading, > Dave Phillips > Sunset Fossils & Minerals > Morgantown, WV > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 6 15:32:49 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Wed Apr 6 15:33:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] MIneral clocks References: <200504020159.j321x2qD026014@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <007301c537e5$31513050$2eeaa5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <000301c53af8$a693c650$78f1edc1@mpc1> In Gems and precious stones of North America (Scientific Publishing Co., 1892: 330) Kunz mentions some mineral coks as follows: "in a plain wooden case, usually in the form of a house, completely covered with specimens, about an inch square, of pyrite, galenite, amazonstone, ore from celebrated mines, and other Colorado minerals ... The minerals are glued on, each bearing a number referring to a list of the minerals on the back of the case." He claims that in the 1880s "fully $15,00 worth have annually been disposed of." Anyone out there have any further information on these remarkable sounding items? thanks Mcik From davisj at earthlink.net Wed Apr 6 16:21:03 2005 From: davisj at earthlink.net (Joe Davis) Date: Wed Apr 6 16:22:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] What is Collecting at Burro Creek Az like Message-ID: <17470875.1112829664011.JavaMail.root@misspiggy.psp.pas.earthlink.net> I plan to stop in the Burro Creek Az area in afew days to see if ther is anything of interest there, Any advise would be appreciated Joe davis From albalmer at att.net Wed Apr 6 16:40:24 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Apr 6 16:40:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] What is Collecting at Burro Creek Az like In-Reply-To: <17470875.1112829664011.JavaMail.root@misspiggy.psp.pas.earthlink.net> References: <17470875.1112829664011.JavaMail.root@misspiggy.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <42547368.1050907@att.net> Joe Davis wrote: > I plan to stop in the Burro Creek Az area in afew days to see if ther is anything of interest there, Any advise would be appreciated > Not much of interest except a few million tons of agate, including some unique (and relatively valuable) purple . This is a good time of year - not too hot yet. Directions to the BLM campground are here: http://www.az.blm.gov/kfo/burrocr.htm This gets you to a place where you'll find agate, but there are better directions to the purple pits in a book I have at home, "Minerals of Arizona" by Neil R. Bearce. If you plan to spend any time in AZ, this is a good book, and most of the sites are worth visiting, though many are rugged trips. If you visit the Arizona Mineral and Mining Museum in Phoenix, it's in stock there. From rockcurrier at cs.com Wed Apr 6 19:28:12 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Wed Apr 6 19:16:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Malay minerals References: <200504070102.j3712QgL020405@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <003101c53b19$7269ba80$6901a8c0@rock3> Question Does anyone have any type of information on collecting / purchasing / visiting activities in Western Malaysia (Malayan peninsula, not the Borneo part. Rik DILLEN, Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas, Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be An answer: It has been many years since I was in Malasia, and didn't have much luck in the part you want to know about. I had always heard that it was a big tin producing country so thought I might get some nice casiterite crystals. It turned out that almost all the tin mines are aluvial and don't produce crystals. I did go up to Kwala Lumpor on the train from Singapore and visited the Malasian geological survey in Kuala Lumpur. They didn't have anything there that I wated to chase, although they said there was one operating tin mine that was underground in the eastern part of the country. I made inquiries on going there, but it was during the monsoon season and getting there would have been very difficult. I did visit Bau near Kuching over in Sarawak and visited a couple of antimony mines and got a few nice specimen of stibnite and could have gotten many more if I had not been so young and inexperienced and could have stayed for a few days more. I was amazed at how many publications that the Survey had done on Malasia. They had a whole room full of them. Certainly there must be some crystals there somewhere. I think your best bet would be to visit the Geological survey again and the geology department of the local university and ask a lot of questions. Rock From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Wed Apr 6 20:34:54 2005 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Wed Apr 6 20:34:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Salt Lake to Denver Message-ID: <010201c53b22$c3949a70$6601a8c0@GlennWimpee> In late May, Jeanette & I are going to fly to Salt Lake City, then drive to Denver, & then back to Alabama. We will have 2 or 3 days in Utah, 1 (at least) driving to Denver, only 1 in Denver, then a fairly steady drive straight home with family. We hope to go to Topaz Mountain collecting while in Utah. And we'll visit Rockpick Legends in SLC, plus Red & Green in Denver. Please make additional suggestions for us. We are slightly more energetic than rank amateur pebble pickers, but not much :-> Glenn --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Apr 6 21:31:23 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Apr 6 21:19:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Minnesota References: <427DA4424855AE4A990F18823E9F4B4B09A6A9@XVS12.allina.com> Message-ID: <4254B4E7.2213@Tomaszewski.net> Carole, You might want to locate all Rockhound clubs near you at the AFMS website, http://www.amfed.org, and make sure they know about your sale. You may post an occasional commercial notice to this list if you prefix the 'Subject:' with "AD:" (but don't be suprised if you get email offers from folks too far away to come personally that ask for shipping). Kreigh Oinonen, Carole A wrote: > > Hi - I'm trying to find out how I can place an ad for a rock and mineral > sale I would like to hold at my home. I have some wonderful specimens > for lapidary that I had purchased many years ago when I was an active > member of the Minnesota Mineral Club. Any information would be > gratefully appreciated. Thank you. Carole > > > Carole Oinonen > QPDS, Risk Management and Infection Control > Phone: 651.241.8416 > Fax: 651.241.7489 > MS 60313 From cjkuo at verizon.net Wed Apr 6 21:26:32 2005 From: cjkuo at verizon.net (Jimmy Kuo) Date: Wed Apr 6 21:28:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] What is Collecting at Burro Creek Az like References: <17470875.1112829664011.JavaMail.root@misspiggy.psp.pas.earthlink.net> <42547368.1050907@att.net> Message-ID: <005501c53b29$fa6fdc60$6901a8c0@LOSJKUOLT2> >If you visit the Arizona Mineral and Mining Museum in > Phoenix, it's in stock there. Highly recommend visiting the Museum even if you're not interested in the book. :-) Jimmy From tim at orerockon.com Thu Apr 7 07:22:44 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Apr 7 07:22:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] "Minernet" SPAM In-Reply-To: <003101c53b19$7269ba80$6901a8c0@rock3> References: <200504070102.j3712QgL020405@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <003101c53b19$7269ba80$6901a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050407071908.026ae8a8@mail.spiritone.com> Just checking to see if these bozos are harversting the list for email addresses. Is anyone else suddenly receiving the "Minernet Newsletter" without having asked for it. No, it isn't anything even remotely useful, it is an ad for mineral specimens... Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From arf at mc.net Thu Apr 7 07:26:27 2005 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Thu Apr 7 07:29:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Blue Garden Stone References: <200504020159.j321x2qD026014@bubbleator.drizzle.com><007301c537e5$31513050$2eeaa5d8@rock5> <000301c53af8$a693c650$78f1edc1@mpc1> Message-ID: <0e1b01c53b7e$2c1503e0$815f70d1@S0033035959> A neighbor sent me a picture of some stones that he finds in his garden when he tills. I do not have them in hand yet but any guesses from the pic? We are in Northern Illinois. http://schmidling.com/blue.jpg js PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Thu Apr 7 07:36:58 2005 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Apr 7 07:37:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Trip to Wales In-Reply-To: <008201c53721$c9bf19c0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <200504071437.j37EbC2U001713@bubbleator.drizzle.com> The Dorothy & I will be heading to Wales the second week of June. Any rockhounding suggestions? Places to visit? ~also~ I'll be hauling over some NJ fluorescent material for trades, so if anyone is interested.... Thanks! Gary From Lapidry at aol.com Thu Apr 7 07:45:34 2005 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Thu Apr 7 07:45:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] "Minernet" SPAM Message-ID: Tim: I don't remember, is that the one from Africa or something that has a blurb down at the bottom in small print similar to legitimate stuff about how you are on the list because you subscribed? Funny, one of the addresses I get it e-mailed to is my e-mail for one of the federation websites and I never use that e-mail address for any outgoing purposes or subscribe to anything with it. They have absolutely harvested that e-mail directly from the website. Dan In a message dated 4/7/2005 10:23:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, tim@orerockon.com writes: Just checking to see if these bozos are harversting the list for email addresses. Is anyone else suddenly receiving the "Minernet Newsletter" without having asked for it. No, it isn't anything even remotely useful, it is an ad for mineral specimens... --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Apr 7 07:50:51 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Apr 7 07:50:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Blue Garden Stone Message-ID: <040720051450.13161.425548CB000676F000003369216037622307059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Rocks that have been artificially dyed by a landscaping company, or refugees from someone's tropical fish tank gravel? This also looks like it could be pieces of some kind of slag from glass or ceramic-making. Sincerely, Pete -------------- Original message from "Jack Schmidling" : -------------- > A neighbor sent me a picture of some stones that he finds in his garden when > he tills. > > I do not have them in hand yet but any guesses from the pic? > > We are in Northern Illinois. > > http://schmidling.com/blue.jpg > > > > > js > > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From johnjold at comcast.net Thu Apr 7 08:50:20 2005 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Thu Apr 7 08:50:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Water found on Mars Message-ID: <3799140ed38d84f50276d6d94c160ddc@comcast.net> This is the N.A.S.A. picture of the day for 4/1/05 http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap050401.html From JWachsmuth at gmx.de Thu Apr 7 08:47:58 2005 From: JWachsmuth at gmx.de (Juergen Wachsmuth) Date: Thu Apr 7 08:53:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collecting minerals in Malaysia References: <200504061945.j36Jjm6o025753@outmx022.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: <4255562D.ABE7B8D3@gmx.de> Hello, there is a (pretty old) paper in Aufschluss vol. 47, 1/1996, p.29-37 , Hauner, U: Lagerst?tten und Mineralien der malaiischen Halbinsel. The author is reporting some experiences as a mineral collector. I wish you success on this trip. Regards, J?rgen Wachsmuth Ulm - Germany Rik Dillen schrieb: > Hi all, > > Does anyone have any type of information on collecting / purchasing / visiting activities in Western Malaysia (Malayan > peninsula, not the Borneo part) ? > Information on localities where minerals can be found, coordinates of dealers or collectors, museums, exporting mineral > specimens (customs issues) or whatever information is welcome. > > Thanks and best regards, > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > Belgium > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > >>> Belgian minerals > >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! > >>> Exchange list > > MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tam2819 at cox.net Thu Apr 7 09:17:09 2005 From: tam2819 at cox.net (T.A.Masters) Date: Thu Apr 7 09:17:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Water found on Mars References: <3799140ed38d84f50276d6d94c160ddc@comcast.net> Message-ID: <42555D05.8010706@cox.net> John, Missed April 1 with that photo. Terrie From stu at arcrystalmine.com Thu Apr 7 09:36:18 2005 From: stu at arcrystalmine.com (stu@arcrystalmine.com) Date: Thu Apr 7 09:36:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nigerian Scam References: <3799140ed38d84f50276d6d94c160ddc@comcast.net> <42555D05.8010706@cox.net> Message-ID: <008501c53b8f$ed56fbb0$6400a8c0@STUART> Has anyone been receiving emails for a person wanting to buy minerals to be shipped to Nigeria? With appreciation & gratitude, Stuart Schmitt Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine www.arcrystalmine.com 60 Mary's Eagle Trail Mount Ida, AR 71957 (870) 867-2443 From naturesemp at earthlink.net Thu Apr 7 09:50:00 2005 From: naturesemp at earthlink.net (Nature's Emporium) Date: Thu Apr 7 09:50:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nigerian Scam Message-ID: <425564B8.30604@earthlink.net> O > Has anyone been receiving emails for a person wanting to buy minerals to > be > shipped to Nigeria? At least one a week - they like air freight also (that's so the order is there before you find out the credit card was stolen) Gloria From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 7 09:51:05 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Thu Apr 7 09:51:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] MIneral clocks References: <200504020159.j321x2qD026014@bubbleator.drizzle.com><007301c537e5$31513050$2eeaa5d8@rock5> <000301c53af8$a693c650$78f1edc1@mpc1> Message-ID: <001101c53b91$fe1346a0$78f1edc1@mpc1> That should've read "clocks" by the way. Microsoft spell checker... Mick (not Mcik) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mick Cooper" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 11:32 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] MIneral clocks > In Gems and precious stones of North America (Scientific Publishing Co., > 1892: 330) Kunz mentions some mineral coks as follows: "in a plain wooden > case, usually in the form of a house, completely covered with specimens, > about an inch square, of pyrite, galenite, amazonstone, ore from > celebrated mines, and other Colorado minerals ... The minerals are glued > on, each bearing a number referring to a list of the minerals on the back > of the case." He claims that in the 1880s "fully $15,00 worth have > annually been disposed of." > > > > Anyone out there have any further information on these remarkable sounding > items? > > > > thanks > > > > Mcik > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From murowchickj at umkc.edu Thu Apr 7 10:11:52 2005 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (James Murowchick) Date: Thu Apr 7 10:11:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Trip to Wales In-Reply-To: <200504071437.j37EbC2U001713@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: Gary- I spent a 10-month research leave at Cardiff University in 1996. Here are some things to check out. In Cardiff, the National Museum is the place to go. They have excellent exhibits of fossils, minerals, and Welsh geology. Cardiff University is across the street, and it is only a couple of blocks from the high Street shopping district and Cardiff Castle. The Brecon Beacons are just north of Cardiff, and mark the north edge of the Welsh coalfields. There is one coal mine east-northeast of Cardiff ("Big Pit" that has tours. It is a real coal mine--with an underground tour--not the simulated ride down a shaft you get in the Rhondda valley tourist mines). For spectacular scenery, head to mid- to north-central Wales. The Eden Valley (south-central) area is fantastic, and farther north are Snowdonia and the Welsh slate quarries. We stayed at various bed and breakfasts along the way, but there were times when we had trouble finding a place without reservations. For used books (including science and nature), visit Hay-on-Wye, a small town on the English border on the north side of the Brecon Beacons. The entire town is a huge collection of used bookstores, one after another, and some specialize in particular types of books--fiction, antiquarian, science and nature, etc. If you like old books, it is worth the trip. Collecting--while I was there, I tried collecting around Cardiff, but most spots were either reclaimed inaccessible, or worked out (or just mediocre material). We passed a number of mining areas traveling back from Snowdonia and into central Wales, but I couldn't find anything promising or worth keeping. I would suggest contacting Welsh collectors (maybe someone else on the list can help you there) for suggestions. I do have a couple of copies of "Minerals of Wales" (I think that's the title) that I bought when I was over there. It is an excellent, color compilation of the minerals found in Wales, with numerous locations provided, and lots of color photos. I would be glad to part with a copy if you're interested (contact me off-list, and I'll get specifics). The book is published by the National Museum, and if it is still available, that would be the place to pick one up if you don't want to purchase one of my copies. I might also have some other publications on Welsh/British geology that might interest you. The Welsh are friendly and outgoing while the British are more reserved. We thoroughly enjoyed our time there, made many friends, and would go back in a heartbeat if we could. Enjoy your trip, and let me know if I can be of additional help, especially for the southern Wales/Cardiff area. Jim Dr. James B. Murowchick Associate Professor, Geology Department of Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall 5110 Rockhill Rd., Kansas City, MO 64110 816 235-2979 Fax: 816 235-5535 murowchickj@umkc.edu On 4/7/05 9:36 AM, "Gary Brown" wrote: > The Dorothy & I will be heading to Wales the second week of June. Any > rockhounding suggestions? Places to visit? > > ~also~ > > I'll be hauling over some NJ fluorescent material for trades, so if anyone > is interested.... > > Thanks! > > Gary > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tjflex2 at yahoo.ca Thu Apr 7 10:31:22 2005 From: tjflex2 at yahoo.ca (Craig Elliott) Date: Thu Apr 7 10:31:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] "Minernet" SPAM In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050407173122.6758.qmail@web30402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Who is Minernet and where are they located? I didn't receive it. Craig Tim Fisher wrote: Just checking to see if these bozos are harversting the list for email addresses. Is anyone else suddenly receiving the "Minernet Newsletter" without having asked for it. No, it isn't anything even remotely useful, it is an ad for mineral specimens... Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jd.richards at ukonline.co.uk Thu Apr 7 10:57:27 2005 From: jd.richards at ukonline.co.uk (John Richards) Date: Thu Apr 7 10:57:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Trip to Wales References: Message-ID: <001101c53b9b$42cbf680$0200a8c0@Johns> As a Welshman living in England a couple of points: -----> For spectacular scenery, head to mid- to north-central Wales. The Eden > Valley (south-central) area is fantastic, Actually it is the Elan Valley. Spectacular scenery with Victorian reservoirs and another reservoir completed in the early 1950's. In my opinion best viewed on a dark, wet day after planty of rainfall so that water is cascading over the dams. Take the road to Aberystwyth across some wild country and explore the old lead mine spoil sites on the way. > The Welsh are friendly and outgoing while the British are more reserved. British refers to the English, Welsh and Scots. As to collecting spots, so much is private land and because of Health & Safety regulations nowadays, access is very often refused. John -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.4 - Release Date: 06-04-05 From kward at themineralgallery.com Thu Apr 7 10:59:09 2005 From: kward at themineralgallery.com (kward) Date: Thu Apr 7 10:59:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nigerian Scam In-Reply-To: <008501c53b8f$ed56fbb0$6400a8c0@STUART> References: <3799140ed38d84f50276d6d94c160ddc@comcast.net> <42555D05.8010706@cox.net> <008501c53b8f$ed56fbb0$6400a8c0@STUART> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20050407125750.0303b920@themineralgallery.com> Many times. They were going for Gold and one time requested I buy a laptop computer using their stolen credit card numbers and ship it to them with the specimens. Needless to say, I did neither and contacted the card company. At 11:36 AM 4/7/2005, you wrote: >Has anyone been receiving emails for a person wanting to buy minerals to >be shipped to Nigeria? > >With appreciation & gratitude, >Stuart Schmitt >Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine >www.arcrystalmine.com >60 Mary's Eagle Trail >Mount Ida, AR 71957 >(870) 867-2443 >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds The Mineral Gallery and Auction http://www.themineralgallery.com http://www.exceptionalminerals.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jd.richards at ukonline.co.uk Thu Apr 7 11:02:29 2005 From: jd.richards at ukonline.co.uk (John Richards) Date: Thu Apr 7 11:02:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Trip to Wales - goldmine References: Message-ID: <001d01c53b9b$f6f13620$0200a8c0@Johns> And I forgot to mention the Dolaucothi gold mine open air 'museum' near Llandovery. Originates as a mine from Roman times. Unfortunately you won't find anything yourself but they do have gold panning hands on experience. John -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.4 - Release Date: 06-04-05 From kahako at verizon.net Thu Apr 7 11:16:31 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Apr 7 11:16:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Trip to Wales In-Reply-To: <200504071437.j37EbC2U001713@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <008201c53721$c9bf19c0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> <200504071437.j37EbC2U001713@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050407075222.04b78f80@incoming.verizon.net> Do you like books? Then you must go to Hay-on-Wye. See: http://www.hay-on-wye.co.uk/ Fully 80% of the stores in this little town sell books. And many of those that don't specialize in books, will have a small rack of books for sale anyway. Lots of great castles and neat towns with unpronounceable names, like Aberystwyth---on the ocean with a cable car to a wonderful view over the coast. We recommend you stay in B&B's (great way to meet nice people and get local tips on everything), and you can find lots, and book them on line, by just putting "B&B's Wales" into Google. Aloha, Kitty At 04:36 AM 4/7/2005, you wrote: >The Dorothy & I will be heading to Wales the second week of June. Any >rockhounding suggestions? Places to visit? > >~also~ > >I'll be hauling over some NJ fluorescent material for trades, so if anyone >is interested.... > >Thanks! > >Gary From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Thu Apr 7 11:30:24 2005 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Apr 7 11:30:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Trip to Wales In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050407075222.04b78f80@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <200504071830.j37IUcLN020060@bubbleator.drizzle.com> One of my favourite spots (note that I'm getting in training with the spelling!). Last time I was there, sometime in the early 80's, I picked up a Mark Train "first" for a song. I also got some early 19th century geology maps at a Really Decent Price. GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Kitty & Bill Heacox > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 1:17 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Trip to Wales > > Do you like books? Then you must go to Hay-on-Wye. ..... From jd.richards at ukonline.co.uk Thu Apr 7 11:36:11 2005 From: jd.richards at ukonline.co.uk (John Richards) Date: Thu Apr 7 11:36:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Trip to Wales - accommodation References: <008201c53721$c9bf19c0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A><200504071437.j37EbC2U001713@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050407075222.04b78f80@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <000701c53ba0$ac3b70f0$0200a8c0@Johns> >>>We recommend you stay in B&B's (great way to meet nice people and > get local tips on everything), and you can find lots, and book them on > line, by just putting "B&B's Wales" into Google. Most towns have a TIC (Tourist Information Centre). These hold lists of local accommodation (Hotels/self catering/B & B/farmhouse). For a nominal sum they will book what you require there and then. Also, if you know your itinerary, they will phone ahead to other TIC's to book future days accommodation. John -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.4 - Release Date: 06-04-05 From everbeek at nac.net Thu Apr 7 11:42:27 2005 From: everbeek at nac.net (earl verbeek) Date: Thu Apr 7 11:42:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Trip to Wales In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050407075222.04b78f80@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <000001c53ba1$8d20aef0$9de4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Gary- One thing I hadn't expected to find in Wales was an UNDERGROUND slate mine. I wish I could remember where it is; it was worth the tour (though a trifle touristy). Seems the good slate occurred only within a 3-ft seam, and the adjacent rock, though slaty, didn't break cleanly and was dumped into one of those great mullock piles that dot the region. It's spectacular country, especially if grey is your favorite color. Great and glorious beer as well. Remember your priorities . . . I probably shouldn't mention the famous limerick about Aberystwyth. Cheers- Earl -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill Heacox Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 2:17 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Trip to Wales Do you like books? Then you must go to Hay-on-Wye. See: http://www.hay-on-wye.co.uk/ Fully 80% of the stores in this little town sell books. And many of those that don't specialize in books, will have a small rack of books for sale anyway. Lots of great castles and neat towns with unpronounceable names, like Aberystwyth---on the ocean with a cable car to a wonderful view over the coast. We recommend you stay in B&B's (great way to meet nice people and get local tips on everything), and you can find lots, and book them on line, by just putting "B&B's Wales" into Google. Aloha, Kitty At 04:36 AM 4/7/2005, you wrote: >The Dorothy & I will be heading to Wales the second week of June. Any >rockhounding suggestions? Places to visit? > >~also~ > >I'll be hauling over some NJ fluorescent material for trades, so if anyone >is interested.... > >Thanks! > >Gary _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jd.richards at ukonline.co.uk Thu Apr 7 11:49:47 2005 From: jd.richards at ukonline.co.uk (John Richards) Date: Thu Apr 7 11:49:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Trip to Wales References: <000001c53ba1$8d20aef0$9de4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <000701c53ba2$92729250$0200a8c0@Johns> > One thing I hadn't expected to find in Wales was an UNDERGROUND slate > mine. > I wish I could remember where it is; it was worth the tour (though a > trifle > touristy). Llechwedd - near Blaenau Festiniog (Betws y Coed about 15 miles away is very picturesque to stay BUT pre booking accommodation essential). John -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.4 - Release Date: 06-04-05 From tjokela at execulink.com Thu Apr 7 11:55:19 2005 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Thu Apr 7 11:55:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nigerian Scam References: <3799140ed38d84f50276d6d94c160ddc@comcast.net><42555D05.8010706@cox.net> <008501c53b8f$ed56fbb0$6400a8c0@STUART> Message-ID: <004601c53ba3$586e0340$6400a8c0@Junior> Regularly. They always want to use a credit card (stolen), mostly want gold and precious minerals, and want the fastest shipping, regardless of cost. Pretty easy to spot, I think they all use the same boilerplate. A Canadian dealer got taken for several thousand dollars by these scumbags. Don't ship to third world countries. Cheers Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 12:36 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Nigerian Scam > Has anyone been receiving emails for a person wanting to buy minerals to > be shipped to Nigeria? > > With appreciation & gratitude, > Stuart Schmitt > Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine > www.arcrystalmine.com > 60 Mary's Eagle Trail > Mount Ida, AR 71957 > (870) 867-2443 > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From silverado at frontiernet.net Thu Apr 7 13:06:45 2005 From: silverado at frontiernet.net (Gail) Date: Thu Apr 7 13:06:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nigerian Scam References: <3799140ed38d84f50276d6d94c160ddc@comcast.net><42555D05.8010706@cox.net> <008501c53b8f$ed56fbb0$6400a8c0@STUART> Message-ID: <001301c53bad$54b0efb0$23fa8b43@gail7diqufk9xy> Stu, I have been getting emails for that and for loans, investments opportunities, I just delete them and then worry about how they got the email address. Just makes me wonder how many people get sucked into this Hope all is well on you end of the world. Clete is still out west somewhere and I expect him home in about a week. Last time I talked to him he said he had good luck found some great stuff. We will be having a web site as soon as I get all the info. fed into it. the site: RockStoreOnLine.com I am using a pair of bookends for the cover page. I don't know if you can access it yet, try and let me know your thoughts. Gail. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 12:36 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Nigerian Scam > Has anyone been receiving emails for a person wanting to buy minerals to > be shipped to Nigeria? > > With appreciation & gratitude, > Stuart Schmitt > Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine > www.arcrystalmine.com > 60 Mary's Eagle Trail > Mount Ida, AR 71957 > (870) 867-2443 > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Thu Apr 7 13:32:49 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Thu Apr 7 13:32:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Blue Garden Stone References: <200504020159.j321x2qD026014@bubbleator.drizzle.com><007301c537e5$31513050$2eeaa5d8@rock5><000301c53af8$a693c650$78f1edc1@mpc1> <0e1b01c53b7e$2c1503e0$815f70d1@S0033035959> Message-ID: <006201c53bb0$f76bd7d0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Looks like aquarium gravel to me! The stuff I dumped in my back yard is a little smaller. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Schmidling" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 10:26 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Blue Garden Stone >A neighbor sent me a picture of some stones that he finds in his garden >when > he tills. > > I do not have them in hand yet but any guesses from the pic? > > We are in Northern Illinois. > > http://schmidling.com/blue.jpg > > > > > js > > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Thu Apr 7 14:35:12 2005 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Wayne Rasmussen) Date: Thu Apr 7 14:35:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Blue Garden Stone References: <200504020159.j321x2qD026014@bubbleator.drizzle.com><007301c537e5$31513050$2eeaa5d8@rock5><000301c53af8$a693c650$78f1edc1@mpc1><0e1b01c53b7e$2c1503e0$815f70d1@S0033035959> <006201c53bb0$f76bd7d0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <009701c53bb9$aec21270$655fe842@Titans> I dont know what that is in that garden either, but if it's got ruts I want some. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Goldstein" To: "Jack Schmidling" ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 2:32 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Blue Garden Stone > Looks like aquarium gravel to me! The stuff I dumped in my back yard is a > little smaller. > > Alan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jack Schmidling" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 10:26 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Blue Garden Stone > > >>A neighbor sent me a picture of some stones that he finds in his garden >>when >> he tills. >> >> I do not have them in hand yet but any guesses from the pic? >> >> We are in Northern Illinois. >> >> http://schmidling.com/blue.jpg >> >> >> >> >> js >> >> PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm >> Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From magnet at crocoite.com Thu Apr 7 19:59:54 2005 From: magnet at crocoite.com (magnet) Date: Thu Apr 7 19:59:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Trip to Wales Message-ID: <20050408025954.8403.qmail@webmachine101.com> Hi Gary Last time I was there, I visited the Snailbeach Mines area close to Shrewsbury, just over the border back in England. The dumps still produce small specimens of quartz, calcite, barite and sulphide minerals, and the Bergham mine was a producer of quite nice pyromorphite. Regards Steve -------Original Message------- > From: "Gary Brown" > Subject: [Rockhounds] Trip to Wales > Sent: 07 Apr 2005 04:36:58 > > The Dorothy & I will be heading to Wales the second week of June.??Any > rockhounding suggestions???Places to visit??? > > Thanks! > > Gary > From dhawk at EcologyFund.net Thu Apr 7 22:24:03 2005 From: dhawk at EcologyFund.net (the other angus) Date: Thu Apr 7 22:24:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] hey looking for Message-ID: <20050408052404.0E1053813F@sitemail.everyone.net> I was wondering if Joe Bokor hope I spelled your last name right was still kicking around the lists somewhere? If so contact me please off list wondering if you sitll have access t osome of the rocks you sent me a year or two ago. Darren kilted_swede@yahoo.ca     ------------------------------------------ Conserve wilderness with a click (free!) and get your own EcologyFund.net email (free!) at http://www.ecologyfund.com. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From bova at mindspring.com Thu Apr 7 22:57:36 2005 From: bova at mindspring.com (Carol J. Bova) Date: Thu Apr 7 22:53:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Morefield Mine, Amelia, Virginia Message-ID: <1B70DF92-A7F3-11D9-BC01-000A95773806@mindspring.com> If all goes well, I'll be heading over to the Morefield Mine Saturday on my first collecting trip in several years..and the first with my new knees. It's supposed to rain today, and tomorrow morning, and then be clear the rest of the day, so that should make surface collecting easier. I know what to look for in terms of lapidary material: amazonite (microcline feldspar), labradorite (plagioclase feldspar), beryl (heliodor, aquamarine, goshenite), moonstone (orthoclase feldspar and albite), and orange spessartite garnet. Won't pass up ametrine if I come across it either. *s* My question for you all is.... What should I particularly keep an eye out for in the way of mineral specimens? 65 minerals are listed here: http://www.mindat.org/loc-4200.html I can see that I may be making multiple trips up there. *g* Many thanks in advance, Carol Carol J. Bova The Eclectic Lapidary http://www.eclecticlapidary.com From jd.richards at ukonline.co.uk Thu Apr 7 23:12:33 2005 From: jd.richards at ukonline.co.uk (John Richards) Date: Thu Apr 7 23:12:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Trip to Wales - accommodation References: <008201c53721$c9bf19c0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A><200504071437.j37EbC2U001713@bubbleator.drizzle.com><6.2.1.2.0.20050407075222.04b78f80@incoming.verizon.net> <000701c53ba0$ac3b70f0$0200a8c0@Johns> Message-ID: <002301c53c01$f3e67dd0$0200a8c0@Johns> Anyone thinking of visiting Wales may care to look at: http://stayinginwales.com/siw/category_search.asp John -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.5 - Release Date: 07-04-05 From tam2819 at cox.net Thu Apr 7 23:16:58 2005 From: tam2819 at cox.net (T.A.Masters) Date: Thu Apr 7 23:18:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Morefield Mine, Amelia, Virginia References: <1B70DF92-A7F3-11D9-BC01-000A95773806@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <425621DA.7010003@cox.net> Carol, Been there, loved it. May come out and join you in the future. Terrie From morningstar at att.net Fri Apr 8 04:22:31 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Fri Apr 8 04:22:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Morefield Mine, Amelia, Virginia Message-ID: <040820051122.10048.4256697700087D220000274021604666489D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Hi Carol, Two people named Betsy Martin and Dr. Lance Kearns from James Madison University are probably more familiar with the minerals of the Morefield Mine than anyone. However I don't believe either person is on this list. I don't know how you searched, but you might want to expand your search beyond mindat. I know recent papers have been written and they, or references to them, may have been posted to the web. Sorry I can't be more specific than that, but I know a number of minerals new to the locality heve been discovered there in recent years. Good luck, Don -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Carol J. Bova" > If all goes well, I'll be heading over to the Morefield Mine Saturday > on my first collecting trip in several years..and the first with my new > knees. It's supposed to rain today, and tomorrow morning, and then be > clear the rest of the day, so that should make surface collecting > easier. I know what to look for in terms of lapidary material: > amazonite (microcline feldspar), labradorite (plagioclase feldspar), > beryl (heliodor, aquamarine, goshenite), moonstone (orthoclase feldspar > and albite), and orange spessartite garnet. Won't pass up ametrine if I > come across it either. *s* > > My question for you all is.... What should I particularly keep an eye > out for in the way of mineral specimens? 65 minerals are listed here: > http://www.mindat.org/loc-4200.html > > I can see that I may be making multiple trips up there. *g* > Many thanks in advance, > Carol > > Carol J. Bova > The Eclectic Lapidary > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From morningstar at att.net Fri Apr 8 04:33:52 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Fri Apr 8 04:33:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Morefield Mine, Amelia, Virginia (part II) Message-ID: <040820051133.17841.42566C1F000EF993000045B121604666489D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Hi again, I'm pretty busy at work, but just out of curiousity I did a quick search on "morefield mine kearns" and got some good hits. Don -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Carol J. Bova" > If all goes well, I'll be heading over to the Morefield Mine Saturday > on my first collecting trip in several years..and the first with my new From everbeek at nac.net Fri Apr 8 05:41:09 2005 From: everbeek at nac.net (earl verbeek) Date: Fri Apr 8 05:41:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Malay minerals In-Reply-To: <003101c53b19$7269ba80$6901a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: <000501c53c38$3dcb5ca0$b7e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Rik- If you don't insist on crystals, some of the tin mines furnish large and interesting examples of botryoidal cassiterite. I'm not sure I remember the regional names correctly: Perak and Selangor? Years ago I spoke to someone who had been there, and he insisted that the cassiterite, as found, was still partly in the colloidal state and could be cut with a knife. I'm not sure I believe that, but one of the specimens I obtained from him had a neat rectangular hole cut into it, to expose one of the inner growth layers. Cheers- Earl -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Rock Currier Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 10:28 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Malay minerals Question Does anyone have any type of information on collecting / purchasing / visiting activities in Western Malaysia (Malayan peninsula, not the Borneo part. Rik DILLEN, Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas, Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be An answer: It has been many years since I was in Malasia, and didn't have much luck in the part you want to know about. I had always heard that it was a big tin producing country so thought I might get some nice casiterite crystals. It turned out that almost all the tin mines are aluvial and don't produce crystals. I did go up to Kwala Lumpor on the train from Singapore and visited the Malasian geological survey in Kuala Lumpur. They didn't have anything there that I wated to chase, although they said there was one operating tin mine that was underground in the eastern part of the country. I made inquiries on going there, but it was during the monsoon season and getting there would have been very difficult. I did visit Bau near Kuching over in Sarawak and visited a couple of antimony mines and got a few nice specimen of stibnite and could have gotten many more if I had not been so young and inexperienced and could have stayed for a few days more. I was amazed at how many publications that the Survey had done on Malasia. They had a whole room full of them. Certainly there must be some crystals there somewhere. I think your best bet would be to visit the Geological survey again and the geology department of the local university and ask a lot of questions. Rock _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jonee at epix.net Fri Apr 8 07:25:18 2005 From: jonee at epix.net (E. L. Jones) Date: Fri Apr 8 07:25:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Blue Garden Stone In-Reply-To: <040720051450.13161.425548CB000676F000003369216037622307059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <040720051450.13161.425548CB000676F000003369216037622307059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <4256944E.2010005@epix.net> My thoughts as well. The stones are too polished and uniform to occur naturally. Elton pjmodreski@att.net wrote: >Rocks that have been artificially dyed by a landscaping company, or refugees from someone's tropical fish tank gravel? This also looks like it could be pieces of some kind of slag from glass or ceramic-making. > >Sincerely, Pete > >-------------- Original message from "Jack Schmidling" : -------------- > > > > >>A neighbor sent me a picture of some stones that he finds in his garden when >>he tills. >> >>I do not have them in hand yet but any guesses from the pic? >> >>We are in Northern Illinois. >> >>http://schmidling.com/blue.jpg >> >> >> >> >>js >> >>PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm >>Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From dproc at humboldt1.com Thu Apr 7 08:53:09 2005 From: dproc at humboldt1.com (dproc@humboldt1.com) Date: Fri Apr 8 08:47:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: CHINA References: <200504020159.j321x2qD026014@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <007301c537e5$31513050$2eeaa5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <42555765.9030401@humboldt1.com> Hi list- Looks like I will be traveling through China in July. Awhile ago someone on the list, maybe Rock Currier, wrote a great letter about visiting some mineral dealers. Unfortunately, I can't recall what city. I would appreciate any advice on where to go in China for minerals Thanks for your time... Doug From kadok at infowest.com Fri Apr 8 11:12:29 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Fri Apr 8 11:12:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Water found on Mars In-Reply-To: <3799140ed38d84f50276d6d94c160ddc@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20050408181226.8E1057A13B@delivery.infowest.com> Subject: [Rockhounds] Water found on Mars This is the N.A.S.A. picture of the day for 4/1/05 http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap050401.html Great! <:-}}} Where did you find that? Margaret _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tjflex2 at yahoo.ca Fri Apr 8 11:56:28 2005 From: tjflex2 at yahoo.ca (Craig Elliott) Date: Fri Apr 8 11:56:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: CHINA In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050408185628.71594.qmail@web30415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This is an ebay dealer I know, xino_huang@hotmail.com. He is located in Shanghai. I don't know if he has a retail shop, but I found that if you ask these internet dealers in advance they will allow you into their home. I will be stopping at the homes of internet dealers in Germany and Italy this summer. If you check the web you can usually locate a fair amount. Craig dproc@humboldt1.com wrote: Hi list- Looks like I will be traveling through China in July. Awhile ago someone on the list, maybe Rock Currier, wrote a great letter about visiting some mineral dealers. Unfortunately, I can't recall what city. I would appreciate any advice on where to go in China for minerals Thanks for your time... Doug _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Fri Apr 8 14:55:14 2005 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Fri Apr 8 14:47:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Morefield Mine, Amelia, Virginia References: <1B70DF92-A7F3-11D9-BC01-000A95773806@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <002201c53c85$a5573540$2e79a118@feldsparflash> Besides the wonderful feldspars you mentioned, as you work the dump and sluice the material be on the look out for topaz! Carolyn Reynard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol J. Bova" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 1:57 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Morefield Mine, Amelia, Virginia > If all goes well, I'll be heading over to the Morefield Mine Saturday > on my first collecting trip in several years..and the first with my new > knees. It's supposed to rain today, and tomorrow morning, and then be > clear the rest of the day, so that should make surface collecting > easier. I know what to look for in terms of lapidary material: > amazonite (microcline feldspar), labradorite (plagioclase feldspar), > beryl (heliodor, aquamarine, goshenite), moonstone (orthoclase feldspar > and albite), and orange spessartite garnet. Won't pass up ametrine if I > come across it either. *s* > > My question for you all is.... What should I particularly keep an eye > out for in the way of mineral specimens? 65 minerals are listed here: > http://www.mindat.org/loc-4200.html > > I can see that I may be making multiple trips up there. *g* > Many thanks in advance, > Carol > > Carol J. Bova > The Eclectic Lapidary > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From arf at mc.net Fri Apr 8 16:56:54 2005 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri Apr 8 16:57:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:Blue Garden Stones References: <20050408185628.71594.qmail@web30415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0f1701c53c96$bf9633a0$815f70d1@S0033035959> Aquarium stones win. My frind brought some over today and I split one with a cold chisel and poof..... end of Injin beads scenario. Some quartz like crystaline stones painted a perfect turquoise blue. Thanks, js PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Fri Apr 8 16:37:17 2005 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Fri Apr 8 18:37:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digiital Cameras (Oh Not Again!!) References: <200504020159.j321x2qD026014@bubbleator.drizzle.com><007301c537e5$31513050$2eeaa5d8@rock5><000301c53af8$a693c650$78f1edc1@mpc1><0e1b01c53b7e$2c1503e0$815f70d1@S0033035959> <006201c53bb0$f76bd7d0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <00b801c53c93$eb799500$6400a8c0@mshome.net> (Sorry to post to the list but Pete's email address bounced) Hi Pete, We're heading down to southern Idaho Sunday for some agate, p. wood, etc. and I plan on buying Julie a digital camera for her birthday on the way. How did the Minolta "DiMAGE" Z10 work out for you? Regards - John Siebel Santa, Idaho From jbf at jbfminerals.com Fri Apr 8 19:26:00 2005 From: jbf at jbfminerals.com (Jeff Fast) Date: Fri Apr 8 19:26:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Morefield Mine, Amelia, Virginia References: <1B70DF92-A7F3-11D9-BC01-000A95773806@mindspring.com> <002201c53c85$a5573540$2e79a118@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <001301c53cab$782ee2e0$171b0944@Dell2004> Carolyn is right, watch out for topaz at the Morefield Mine. A friend of mine collected a nice topaz there. Here is a (long) link to a picture on my website: http://www.jbfminerals.com/cgi-bin/scripts/urfinds/urfinds.cgi? Scroll down to the bottom of the page. Jeff Fast www.jbfminerals.com (860) 985 - 6321 (USA) From MinPhoto at aol.com Fri Apr 8 19:40:59 2005 From: MinPhoto at aol.com (MinPhoto@aol.com) Date: Fri Apr 8 19:41:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Photographic Guide to Mineral Species 2nd Edition Now Available! Message-ID: AD AD AD AD AD JUST RELEASED: THE PHOTOGRAPHIC GUIDE TO MINERAL SPECIES CD - VOL 2!! Thesecond edition Photographic Guide to Mineral Species CD has finally arrived! This one has 6700 images, new sections on fluorescent minerals, many new species and features, and a comprehensive descriptive data base for EVERY published mineral through late 2004 that provides all physical data, type localities, chemistry, structure, optics - you name it! Photo's by Jeff Scovil, Jeff Weissman and others are presented in a very easy to use format that requires no special installation on your CD-drive equipped computer that uses any popular browser (Explorer, Navigator etc.). Runs on both IBM/Windows as well as MacIntosh platforms, too! Best of all: it's only 49.95 plus 5.00 shipping anywhere in the world! If you missed Volume 1 (normally 69.95), we offer a package of both Vol 1 and Vol 2 for just 89.95 plus 5.00 shipping, a savings of more than $30.00 if purchased separately! Get this comprehensive and easy to use CD for your mineral library today! Contact Excalibur Mineral for ordering or more info 914-739-1134 info@excaliburmineral.com www.excaliburmineral.com or e-mail the author at minphoto@aol.com regards, Jeff Weissman --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockcurrier at cs.com Sat Apr 9 01:48:27 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Sat Apr 9 01:45:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Specimens in China References: <200504090102.j3912oEe020368@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <000e01c53ce0$e6a76c80$2eeaa5d8@rock5> I would appreciate any advice on where to go in China for minerals Thanks for your time... Doug The City is Changsha, capitol of Hunan state. Near the center of town near the now big sports stadium complex if the Geological Survey. Just down the street about a block away is the little alley that they call the gem and mineral market place. There must be 100 guys there selling mineral specimens. As you enter the little street, most of the shops are jewelry stores, but as you get further back into the little district, you will find more and more mineral dealers. You can spend several days just running from one to the other and to the apartments of dealers scattered around town and look at all the rocks you want. The silver pick will be the only collecting tool you will need. When you get back, report to the list on your experinece. Rock From rockcurrier at cs.com Sat Apr 9 02:21:45 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Sat Apr 9 02:18:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nigerian Scams References: <200504080102.j3812Q9l007026@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <003f01c53ce5$90168720$2eeaa5d8@rock5> Has anyone been receiving emails for a person wanting to buy minerals to be shipped to Nigeria? We get them all the time. They always want to buy merchandice from you, any kind of merchandice and give you a credit card number. We don't pay any attention to them because it is generally known that the credit card numbers are stolen. If they get you to ship anything, they are money ahead. Nigeria has been the center of a variety of scams where they contact you wanting you to handle large ammounts of money for them for one reason or another. These scams have poliferated and become much more numerous with the advent of the net where you don't even have to pay the cost of international postage. These scams have been running for more than 30 years, and aparently there are enough people willing to be duped that it is profitable to keep doing them. It is a sort of home grown Nigerian industry that has spread to other countries. Probably with the emmigration of Nigerians to other countries. Rock From JScully216 at aol.com Sat Apr 9 05:59:54 2005 From: JScully216 at aol.com (JScully216@aol.com) Date: Sat Apr 9 06:00:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Specimens in China -- shipping back home Message-ID: In a message dated 4/9/2005 2:45:41 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, rockcurrier@cs.com writes: Is it difficult to ship specimens back? I would appreciate any advice on where to go in China for minerals Thanks for your time... Doug The City is Changsha, capitol of Hunan state. Near the center of town near the now big sports stadium complex if the Geological Survey. Just down the street about a block away is the little alley that they call the gem and mineral market place. There must be 100 guys there selling mineral specimens. As you enter the little street, most of the shops are jewelry stores, but as you get further back into the little district, you will find more and more mineral dealers. You can spend several days just running from one to the other and to the apartments of dealers scattered around town and look at all the rocks you want. The silver pick will be the only collecting tool you will need. When you get back, report to the list on your experinece. Rock --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sat Apr 9 07:20:15 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sat Apr 9 07:08:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digiital Cameras (Oh Not Again!!) References: <200504020159.j321x2qD026014@bubbleator.drizzle.com><007301c537e5$31513050$2eeaa5d8@rock5><000301c53af8$a693c650$78f1edc1@mpc1><0e1b01c53b7e$2c1503e0$815f70d1@S0033035959><006201c53bb0$f76bd7d0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> <00b801c53c93$eb799500$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <002801c53d0f$42939860$7ea4490c@pete> Hi John, The Minolta DiMAGE Z10 has been just great. I took it to Tucson and took all kinds of great pictures, both of minerals and of scenery and sunrises/sunsets on the way. It's convenient and easy to use too, and the 8x zoom is very useful. Only one thing I've had a little trouble with, and maybe it's because I've never really read the instructions as thoroughly as I should. When I set it on the close focusing-macro mode, I sometimes have trouble getting it to focus properly on a close subject; the focus sometimes zooms in and out, but doesn't always stop at the real focal point, whether I try to select auto or manual focus. It's supposed to focus on subjects to within about 1-2 cm of the lens, and it does, sometimes. Like I said, I haven't gone back and tried to re-read the instructions to make sure I'm doing things correctly. But I'd recommend the camera very heartily. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Siebel" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 5:37 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Digiital Cameras (Oh Not Again!!) > (Sorry to post to the list but Pete's email address bounced) > > Hi Pete, > > We're heading down to southern Idaho Sunday for some agate, p. wood, etc. > and I plan on buying Julie a digital camera for her birthday on the way. How > did the Minolta "DiMAGE" Z10 work out for you? > > Regards - > > John Siebel > Santa, Idaho > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From drechter at juno.com Wed Apr 6 14:53:19 2005 From: drechter at juno.com (David) Date: Sat Apr 9 08:44:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Thunder Bay Message-ID: <5bc0a294020b998cd3d96968013d33c8@juno.com> Hey there! I was cruising the web for Diamond Willow sites and came across the posts. I'm hopefully heading up in September this year, and wanted to visit the mine. Is there any good collecting that you know of? Perhaps reports from other members of recent? Thanks! David Rechter 918.852.6839 There are only 10 kinds of people who understand binary computing, those that do, and those that don't. Chat IDs: direchter@aol.com direchter@msn.com davidrechter@yahoo.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- From lanny at lrream.com Sat Apr 9 10:02:26 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sat Apr 9 10:00:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Intro, plus some questions... In-Reply-To: <00a401c53a2d$3ddf9790$12b4010a@warren> References: <00a401c53a2d$3ddf9790$12b4010a@warren> Message-ID: <26023650-A919-11D9-B858-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi Julie (and John), Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, and I hope this is quick enough that you get it before you leave, which according to John's recent message to the list will apparently be tomorrow. Just a few comments on the localities on your list. > > Next week we're going to visit the Boise area to hit those > Idaho/Oregon border sites we've heard so much about. On the list for > the trip is: > > Saturday or Sunday, April 8th or 9th - Santa ID, to Boise ID (These > struck me as mostly drive-bys on the way down): > -Cottonwood > -Slate Creek > -Ruby Rapids Garnet > -Pinehurst Zeolites Cottonwood can be productive in a short time by looking at the rocks that have fallen off the cut face. Slate Creek, really needs some time to break rock, hard rock. Ruby Rabids can be productive in a short time from road level on up. Pinehurst, hard to say now. The new road construction has left lots of parking areas (which is good because you used to have to park close to a busy highway), but most of the cuts are now large, vertical faces. A thorough look could be rewarding, but it is now difficult to collect. It might be better to break rock where they dumped it as riprap in many areas along the river and along the highway in the general area. > > Boise Area: > -Sheaville > -Succor Creek > -Coal Mine Basin Jasper > -McBride > -S. of Homedale > -Sommercamp Road > -Graveyard Point > -Owyhee Most of these areas can be productive, but it is best to take the time and do a lot of looking, yet they are good areas for a short time of just wandering around. I haven't been back to any of them for several years, so not current on them. The many spots on Succor Creek and Graveyard Point have of course been popular for decades. > > Friday, April 15th, Boise to Baker City, Oregon: > -Vale > > Saturday, April 16th, Baker City, Oregon" > -Baker City > -Sumpter > > Sunday, April 17th, Baker City, Oregon to Santa, Idaho In one of your passes through the canyon of I-84 southeast of Backer City, stop at Lime for the small orthoclase crystals if you haven't already been there. This is at the old site of the concrete plant (southeast of the new one). If using the north exit at Lime (the south exit is a mile or so south of Lime), go to the east side and take the frontage road down the east side of the canyon. It goes through the old concrete plant (which they were tearing down a couple years ago) and continue south for a half mile (or maybe its a mile) to a cut through a rock point. It's easy to find, there is only one on this stretch of the road that has a cut on both sides of the road. The crystals are phenocrysts in a dike that is crumbling, freeing the small crystals. There are many Manebach and Baveno twins as well as untwinned crystals, most are around 1/2 inch, up to about an inch. The dike is on the west side of the road and across the railroad tracks below. Easy collecting, pick them up or work the rock apart. > > My questions are: > > --Have I bit off more than we can chew here? There are a lot of great > sites to cover in this list. I want to make sure we have time to hit > the important ones. You have probably "bit off more than you can chew," but that shouldn't be a problem. Go to the first spot on your list, spend the amount of time you care to, then go to the next. If you only get to half of them or one third of them, it doesn't matter. I don't think we will penalize you for not fulfilling a commitment! > > --If someone has been to any or all of these sites, is there something > that we should just skip or absolutely not miss? Do you have any > suggestions as to where/what/how? (Hey, gimme a break - my Estwing > swinging arm is out of practice - lol) > > --What am I missing that I'm going to shoot myself later for not > hitting? > > Thanks for any help! > > Julie Siebel > > A lot of us are jealous. I keep trying to get out, but the recent return of winter to Idaho and Montana have made trips to where I want to get to impractical. Perhaps I should change plans and go look for jasper on Sommercamp Road! Regards, Lanny From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sat Apr 9 08:39:59 2005 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sat Apr 9 10:40:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Intro, plus some questions... References: <00a401c53a2d$3ddf9790$12b4010a@warren> <26023650-A919-11D9-B858-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <003101c53d1a$6bca6f00$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Thanks Lanny! We're hot to trot. Gotta go sharpen the chisels. It's been so long that they're all rusty. And thank you Pete for the camera feedback! John From tjflex2 at yahoo.ca Sat Apr 9 10:44:37 2005 From: tjflex2 at yahoo.ca (Craig Elliott) Date: Sat Apr 9 10:44:39 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Specimens in China -- shipping back home In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050409174437.51370.qmail@web30414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The guy I buy some of my minerals from is in Shanghai and he just uses China Air Post. I have never had any problems receiving my shipments in the mail. Craig. JScully216@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 4/9/2005 2:45:41 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, rockcurrier@cs.com writes: Is it difficult to ship specimens back? I would appreciate any advice on where to go in China for minerals Thanks for your time... Doug The City is Changsha, capitol of Hunan state. Near the center of town near the now big sports stadium complex if the Geological Survey. Just down the street about a block away is the little alley that they call the gem and mineral market place. There must be 100 guys there selling mineral specimens. As you enter the little street, most of the shops are jewelry stores, but as you get further back into the little district, you will find more and more mineral dealers. You can spend several days just running from one to the other and to the apartments of dealers scattered around town and look at all the rocks you want. The silver pick will be the only collecting tool you will need. When you get back, report to the list on your experinece. Rock --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sat Apr 9 13:22:25 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sat Apr 9 13:22:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Malay minerals In-Reply-To: <003101c53b19$7269ba80$6901a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: <200504092022.j39KMQ72014752@outmx005.isp.belgacom.be> Thanks for the information, Rock ! I will follow your advice and contact the Geological Survey of Malaysia. Best regards, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Rock Currier Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 4:28 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Malay minerals Question Does anyone have any type of information on collecting / purchasing / visiting activities in Western Malaysia (Malayan peninsula, not the Borneo part. Rik DILLEN, Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas, Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be An answer: It has been many years since I was in Malasia, and didn't have much luck in the part you want to know about. I had always heard that it was a big tin producing country so thought I might get some nice casiterite crystals. It turned out that almost all the tin mines are aluvial and don't produce crystals. I did go up to Kwala Lumpor on the train from Singapore and visited the Malasian geological survey in Kuala Lumpur. They didn't have anything there that I wated to chase, although they said there was one operating tin mine that was underground in the eastern part of the country. I made inquiries on going there, but it was during the monsoon season and getting there would have been very difficult. I did visit Bau near Kuching over in Sarawak and visited a couple of antimony mines and got a few nice specimen of stibnite and could have gotten many more if I had not been so young and inexperienced and could have stayed for a few days more. I was amazed at how many publications that the Survey had done on Malasia. They had a whole room full of them. Certainly there must be some crystals there somewhere. I think your best bet would be to visit the Geological survey again and the geology department of the local university and ask a lot of questions. Rock _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sat Apr 9 15:52:12 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sat Apr 9 15:40:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Intro, plus some questions... References: <00a401c53a2d$3ddf9790$12b4010a@warren><26023650-A919-11D9-B858-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <003101c53d1a$6bca6f00$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <001a01c53d56$c9dfdb20$4fa6490c@pete> Happy hunting, John! Lanny, I'll have to save your email with the collecting site comments myself, in case I ever make it up that way with time to go mineral collecting. "Hasn't happened yet in this lifetime", but you never know. When I retire? Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Siebel" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 9:39 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Intro, plus some questions... > Thanks Lanny! > > We're hot to trot. Gotta go sharpen the chisels. It's been so long that > they're all rusty. > From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sat Apr 9 13:42:30 2005 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sat Apr 9 15:43:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Intro, plus some questions... References: <00a401c53a2d$3ddf9790$12b4010a@warren><26023650-A919-11D9-B858-000393AC22E6@lrream.com><003101c53d1a$6bca6f00$6400a8c0@mshome.net> <001a01c53d56$c9dfdb20$4fa6490c@pete> Message-ID: <003d01c53d44$aabcd660$6400a8c0@mshome.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" > Happy hunting, John! > > Lanny, I'll have to save your email with the collecting site comments > myself, in case I ever make it up that way with time to go mineral > collecting. "Hasn't happened yet in this lifetime", but you never know. > When I retire? > > Pete From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sat Apr 9 13:53:37 2005 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sat Apr 9 15:54:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Intro, plus some questions... References: <00a401c53a2d$3ddf9790$12b4010a@warren><26023650-A919-11D9-B858-000393AC22E6@lrream.com><003101c53d1a$6bca6f00$6400a8c0@mshome.net> <001a01c53d56$c9dfdb20$4fa6490c@pete> Message-ID: <004701c53d46$3b41cbe0$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Pete, Lanny has authored "Collector's Guide to Idaho" and "Idaho Minerals", both of which you may want to consult before you retire. In the mean time, I'll be sure to report back to the list about this trip. It's been a while since we've had a good (or any) trip to write up. Hopefully, I'll have digital photos to post as well. (Sorry about the last empty post. Twitchy mouse finger and rocks on the brain.) John > Happy hunting, John! > > Lanny, I'll have to save your email with the collecting site comments > myself, in case I ever make it up that way with time to go mineral > collecting. "Hasn't happened yet in this lifetime", but you never know. > When I retire? From TomE61 at aol.com Sun Apr 10 06:36:04 2005 From: TomE61 at aol.com (TomE61@aol.com) Date: Sun Apr 10 06:36:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Morefield Mine Message-ID: <6CDA8EA8.55E11772.00054D98@aol.com> The Morefield Mine is a great place to visit and collect. I was there for two entire days last September and had a wonderful time. The gift shop is well stocked and the prices are reasonable, in case you get tired of sifting. Amazonite, garnet, amethyst and mica are abundant here and easily collected. The sluicing is just a lot of fun. When the owner begins to dump a new load for the day, its exciting and worth waiting around for. I don?t think you?ll be disappointed. Regards, Tom Russell From tim at orerockon.com Sun Apr 10 07:05:46 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun Apr 10 07:05:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Intro, plus some questions... In-Reply-To: <26023650-A919-11D9-B858-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> References: <00a401c53a2d$3ddf9790$12b4010a@warren> <26023650-A919-11D9-B858-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050410070224.02646be0@mail.spiritone.com> I doubt any of the dirt roads in the Owyhees which includes Graveyard Point etc. are driveable. Then again you might get lucky. Tip: most of the easily accessible sites you mention from Gem Trails of Oregon are either wrong (location) or so heavily collected there isn't much point to stopping. At 10:02 AM 4/9/2005, you wrote: >>Boise Area: >>-Sheaville >>-Succor Creek >>-Coal Mine Basin Jasper >>-McBride >>-S. of Homedale >>-Sommercamp Road >>-Graveyard Point >>-Owyhee Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Sun Apr 10 07:56:46 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Sun Apr 10 07:56:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Feather Quartz? In-Reply-To: <5B155412-A524-11D9-B858-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> References: <42501E3E.7060904@tenforward.com> <5B155412-A524-11D9-B858-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <42593EAE.3050203@tenforward.com> Hi Lanny and Everyone, Thank you for taking the time to respond to this thread. I appreciate it. All the very best, John Lanny wrote: > Hi John, > > Great photo. It is almost astounding in its appearance as a feather, > one can see why some people would look at it as evidence of a fossil. > > It is of course only a crystal growth feature, specifically an > interference pattern, the equivalent of striations. Large masses of > quartz are not a single grain, but are composed of many grains of > quartz (or crude crystals if you prefer). If you look at very much of > this "massive" quartz broken up, you will see a few crystal faces, > or more often, these zones where the crystals trying to form faces > fought a battle with the adjoining grain over which crystal gets to > occuppy the space and which one loses the battle. > > Typically, striations in quartz are seen on the m faces, and cut the > c axis at 90 degrees. They are formed by the competition of the m > face with the r or z face as the crystal grows. If you look at the > striations of a crystal closely, you will see that it is actually a > little step where an r face shows. As you go up the face of the > crystal you are seeing m face r face m face, etc. > > Rarely, and I have one, the striations are at an angle, because they > formed from the battle between the m face and a lesser face such as > an s or x face (those little faces generally seen at the corners > where the m faces meet the r faces. > > If you should happen to get this happening on two adjoining m faces, > you would get a chevron. If this should happen in the formation of > two of those large grains of quartz in "massive" quartz with the two > grains growing against each other, it would produce the feature in > that photo. > > At least that's how I visualize that it could happen. > > Regards, > > Lanny > > > On Apr 3, 2005, at 9:47 AM, John and Gloria Cornish wrote: > >> Hi Everyone, >> >> I've got a question regarding Quartz which I'd like to bounce off >> the list. It is my hope that some of you have additionally seen >> this quartz phenomenon in specimens which perhaps you've also >> puzzled over and that I may achieve a more through understanding of >> Feather Quartz. >> >> Back in '89 or '90, we went for a collecting trip to Hallelujah >> Junction (Peterson Peak), right on the California/ Nevada border. >> Among the treasures we found was an oddly deformed smokey-amethyst >> quartz specimen which had obviously broken free from a much larger >> crystal. On the opposite side of the break, and free of any damage, >> was a 2 x 2 inch area where growth features converged to create a >> feather-like pattern. I marveled over this neat little mystery and >> then set the piece aside.... until just the other day, when in the >> midst of a worldwide internet surfing marathon, I came across this >> link and immediately recognized the same feather-like features as >> displayed on my specimen from years ago... >> >> http://reversonet.lycos.de/result.asp? >> direction=65540&template=General&autotranslate=true&url=http:// >> www.kristalle.ch/sammlung/federquarz.asp >> >> The paleo references to this feature as presented at this site are >> obviously without merit, but the photo is clear and mimics the >> features displayed in our specimen. The angle of the crystal faces >> where they converge in the center of the feature have not been >> measured, but when comparing the photo to my hand specimen, they >> seem approximate. >> >> When doing a search of Feather Quartz or Quartz Feathers, this link... >> >> http://www.maden.hacettepe.edu.tr/dmmrt/dmmrt428.html >> >> ... gave the following... >> >> Imperfect quartz crystals that meet at an angle of a crystallographic >> plane so that a cross section somewhat resembles a feather. >> >> And so, here we are and now to my questions... >> >> #1 What is happening here? >> >> #2 Is this a "common" feature from some deposits? >> >> And last, your own individual thoughts. Thank you for taking the >> time to help. All the very best, >> >> John >> >> PS If needed, a photo of my specimen can be sent. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From lanny at lrream.com Sun Apr 10 09:44:15 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sun Apr 10 09:42:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Intro, plus some questions... In-Reply-To: <001a01c53d56$c9dfdb20$4fa6490c@pete> References: <00a401c53a2d$3ddf9790$12b4010a@warren><26023650-A919-11D9-B858-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <003101c53d1a$6bca6f00$6400a8c0@mshome.net> <001a01c53d56$c9dfdb20$4fa6490c@pete> Message-ID: Hi Pete, Much of it will still be there when you retire, although, as Tim mentioned in his message, many of the areas have been heavily picked over. That isn't always a problem for areas where digging is productive, but in areas where there is only surface material, the pickings get mighty slim. There must be something new out there though! Regards, Lanny On Apr 9, 2005, at 3:52 PM, Peter J. Modreski wrote: > Happy hunting, John! > > Lanny, I'll have to save your email with the collecting site comments > myself, in case I ever make it up that way with time to go mineral > collecting. "Hasn't happened yet in this lifetime", but you never > know. > When I retire? > > Pete From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sun Apr 10 10:11:05 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sun Apr 10 09:58:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Intro, plus some questions... References: <00a401c53a2d$3ddf9790$12b4010a@warren><26023650-A919-11D9-B858-000393AC22E6@lrream.com><003101c53d1a$6bca6f00$6400a8c0@mshome.net><001a01c53d56$c9dfdb20$4fa6490c@pete> Message-ID: <002901c53df0$491cd980$2ea5490c@pete> I feel like I've been so fortunate, to get to collect minerals at some many places in my life already, that whatever I get to do in future years, will just be a bonus! I know I've been to a lot of places that are now closed/gone/buried/picked over, all those things. And I could profitably use all the time I have, just to finish going through anything I've got boxed away, and rediscovering what it was that I had collected way back that many years ago, and, aha!, wow, I'd almost forgotten about this; and getting it all properly catalogued and labelled and put on display. Only one of me and so many rocks--how can I complain? Cheers to all (from a very snowy Sunday morning in Denver!), Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 10:44 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Intro, plus some questions... > Hi Pete, > > Much of it will still be there when you retire, although, as Tim > mentioned in his message, many of the areas have been heavily picked > over. That isn't always a problem for areas where digging is > productive, but in areas where there is only surface material, the > pickings get mighty slim. > > There must be something new out there though! > > Regards, > > Lanny > From tim at orerockon.com Sun Apr 10 11:05:07 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun Apr 10 11:05:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Intro, plus some questions... In-Reply-To: References: <00a401c53a2d$3ddf9790$12b4010a@warren> <26023650-A919-11D9-B858-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <003101c53d1a$6bca6f00$6400a8c0@mshome.net> <001a01c53d56$c9dfdb20$4fa6490c@pete> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050410110308.02699be0@mail.spiritone.com> Yes, e.g. the "Sheaville" sites in Gem Trails are wrong, and if they aren't they are so picked over that no evidence that anything was ever there is left. BUT, if you move a few miles on 95, you will find the leaf fossils (insert shameless plug for my CD here :) ) At 09:44 AM 4/10/2005, you wrote: >Hi Pete, > >Much of it will still be there when you retire, although, as Tim mentioned >in his message, many of the areas have been heavily picked over. That >isn't always a problem for areas where digging is productive, but in areas >where there is only surface material, the pickings get mighty slim. > >There must be something new out there though! Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sun Apr 10 11:16:52 2005 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Sun Apr 10 11:17:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Intro, plus some questions... References: <00a401c53a2d$3ddf9790$12b4010a@warren><26023650-A919-11D9-B858-000393AC22E6@lrream.com><003101c53d1a$6bca6f00$6400a8c0@mshome.net><001a01c53d56$c9dfdb20$4fa6490c@pete> <6.2.1.2.2.20050410110308.02699be0@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <001d01c53df9$7d0a3860$12b4010a@warren> Generally what John and I do is print out detailed topo maps...often we don't go to the specific area in the guides, just to the *general* area. We also are happy with small things - it's great to find museum quality specimens, but as a fisherman friend of mine says, "that's why they call it 'fishing' not 'catching'." Consequently, visiting a site and finding a few small bits and pieces is fun as well. (Though I'm really hoping for a museum specimen - lol) One year I found a list of all the quarries - past, present and future - for the Gifford Pinchot national forest, listed by township/section etc. I marked them all on a map and we visited nearly every one...it took some time, many of them were obviously bare, but we did find some agate and jasper at a few, as well as some really sweet plates of quartz and various zeolites, copper associates, etc. The hunt was fabulous! God, I love this hobby. That said, truck is packed, maps are printed, GPS is loaded and it's time to go! Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Intro, plus some questions... > Yes, e.g. the "Sheaville" sites in Gem Trails are wrong, and if they > aren't they are so picked over that no evidence that anything was ever > there is left. BUT, if you move a few miles on 95, you will find the leaf > fossils (insert shameless plug for my CD here :) ) > > At 09:44 AM 4/10/2005, you wrote: > >>Hi Pete, >> >>Much of it will still be there when you retire, although, as Tim mentioned >>in his message, many of the areas have been heavily picked over. That >>isn't always a problem for areas where digging is productive, but in areas >>where there is only surface material, the pickings get mighty slim. >> >>There must be something new out there though! > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From willows30 at alltel.net Sun Apr 10 13:17:58 2005 From: willows30 at alltel.net (James A. Rollins) Date: Sun Apr 10 13:17:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Morefield Mine Message-ID: <002f01c53e0a$63a5ea20$01fea8c0@Pteraphyte> When does the Morefield Mine open? Do they have a web site? Also, since my first message probably went into cyberspace: Has anyone grown copper crystals at home? What factors control the size of the crystals. How big can you grow them? James A. Rollins --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From bova at mindspring.com Sun Apr 10 13:46:25 2005 From: bova at mindspring.com (Carol J. Bova) Date: Sun Apr 10 13:41:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Morefield Mine In-Reply-To: <002f01c53e0a$63a5ea20$01fea8c0@Pteraphyte> Message-ID: <9B1B7810-AA01-11D9-82EC-000A95773806@mindspring.com> Hi folks, First, let me thank everyone for their help and information on list and off... I went yesterday and had a great time, and will definitely be going back again. The ride from here was easy, and the weather was outstanding. I do have to work out some adaptations for my knee limitations though. I couldn't sit at the sluice because the bench is too low. I was told the best way to find material is to sit on the ground and go through the newly dumped material. I could get down, but then I'd have a diffficult time getting up again, so I picked up a shovelful at a time standing, and sorted through, picking out likely chunks. I'll bring some kind of folding seat next time. I did get some nice amazonite, mostly in small pieces for cutting. No exciting crystals this trip.. but there's always next time. James, The mine is open to the public on Saturdays, 9:30-4:30 until the summer schedule starts in July. They don't have a website, but this one has all the details you need: http://www.toteshows.com/morefield.html and you can reach the owners by phone if you need to. Have fun! Carol in Mathews, VA On Sunday, April 10, 2005, at 04:17 PM, James A. Rollins wrote: > When does the Morefield Mine open? Do they have a web site? > Also, since my first message probably went into cyberspace: > Has anyone grown copper crystals at home? What factors control the > size of the crystals. How big can you grow them? > > James A. Rollins > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From kahako at verizon.net Sun Apr 10 16:49:11 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Apr 10 16:49:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] bad knees In-Reply-To: <9B1B7810-AA01-11D9-82EC-000A95773806@mindspring.com> References: <002f01c53e0a$63a5ea20$01fea8c0@Pteraphyte> <9B1B7810-AA01-11D9-82EC-000A95773806@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050410112959.02634ae8@incoming.verizon.net> Hi all, I have had surgeries to both knees and Bill has an artificial hip. So we have experience with the problems Carol mentions, and I expect some other rockhounds may have similar difficulties. I found the items listed below on the Web (and I'm not promoting or profiting). The first type I've found in the past at large sporting goods stores. They are comfortable and stable, but a bit awkward to carry or pack on a trip. The second we got in England and still use; in fact it stays in the back of the car just in case. It takes a while to get used to a monopod, but it works as a cane or walking stick, and is height adjustable; I use it fully extended as a walking stick, then change to lowest height to sit while looking at stuff on the ground. The third item I have not seen in person; it looks convenient for carrying and traveling, but it doesn't seem to be height adjustable. Hope this helps. Folding Seat Cane: Cane has a seat that flips down to make a tripod chair. http://www.specialty-medical.com/indexproducts.html Spectator Seat: a walking cane with a sling top that folds out to a monopod seat, height adjustable. http://www.spectatorseats.com/ Flipstick: Top flips to make a monopod bicycle-type seat. One version can fold into a carrying case with shoulder strap. http://www.myles-rec.com/Recreation/Flipstick/flipstick.htm Aloha, Kitty At 10:46 AM 4/10/2005, Carol Bova wrote: >....I do have to work out some adaptations for my knee limitations >though. I couldn't sit at the sluice because the bench is too low. I was >told the best way to find material is to sit on the ground and go through >the newly dumped material. I could get down, but then I'd have a >diffficult time getting up again... I'll bring some kind of folding seat >next time. I did get some nice amazonite, mostly in small pieces for >cutting. No exciting crystals this trip.. but there's always next time. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From agesilaus at gmail.com Sun Apr 10 17:27:17 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Apr 10 17:28:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] bad knees In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050410112959.02634ae8@incoming.verizon.net> References: <002f01c53e0a$63a5ea20$01fea8c0@Pteraphyte> <9B1B7810-AA01-11D9-82EC-000A95773806@mindspring.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050410112959.02634ae8@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: A lot of hikers use their hiking pole (or one of the pair of poles) as a monopod, all you have to do is epoxy a 1/4 inch bolt to the top of the grip. The thread on cameras is 1/4 inch. BK On Apr 10, 2005 7:49 PM, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > Hi all, > > I have had surgeries to both knees and Bill has an artificial hip. So we > have experience with the problems Carol mentions, and I expect some other > rockhounds may have similar difficulties. I found the items listed below > on the Web (and I'm not promoting or profiting). The first type I've found > in the past at large sporting goods stores. They are comfortable and > stable, but a bit awkward to carry or pack on a trip. The second we got in > England and still use; in fact it stays in the back of the car just in > case. It takes a while to get used to a monopod, but it works as a cane or > walking stick, and is height adjustable; I use it fully extended as a > walking stick, then change to lowest height to sit while looking at stuff > on the ground. The third item I have not seen in person; it looks > convenient for carrying and traveling, but it doesn't seem to be height > adjustable. Hope this helps. > > Folding Seat Cane: Cane has a seat that flips down to make a tripod chair. > http://www.specialty-medical.com/indexproducts.html > > Spectator Seat: a walking cane with a sling top that folds out to a > monopod seat, height adjustable. > http://www.spectatorseats.com/ > > Flipstick: Top flips to make a monopod bicycle-type seat. One version can > fold into a carrying case with shoulder strap. > http://www.myles-rec.com/Recreation/Flipstick/flipstick.htm > > Aloha, Kitty > > At 10:46 AM 4/10/2005, Carol Bova wrote: > >....I do have to work out some adaptations for my knee limitations > >though. I couldn't sit at the sluice because the bench is too low. I was > >told the best way to find material is to sit on the ground and go through > >the newly dumped material. I could get down, but then I'd have a > >diffficult time getting up again... I'll bring some kind of folding seat > >next time. I did get some nice amazonite, mostly in small pieces for > >cutting. No exciting crystals this trip.. but there's always next time. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From dvcook at ntelos.net Sun Apr 10 17:58:34 2005 From: dvcook at ntelos.net (Duard Cook) Date: Sun Apr 10 18:01:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Morefield Mine In-Reply-To: <002f01c53e0a$63a5ea20$01fea8c0@Pteraphyte> References: <002f01c53e0a$63a5ea20$01fea8c0@Pteraphyte> Message-ID: <4259CBBA.60006@ntelos.net> What is the location of the Morefield Mine. Thanks Vernon Cook James A. Rollins wrote: >When does the Morefield Mine open? Do they have a web site? >Also, since my first message probably went into cyberspace: >Has anyone grown copper crystals at home? What factors control the size of the crystals. How big can you grow them? > >James A. Rollins > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From DAVEROTH101 at wmconnect.com Sun Apr 10 18:13:49 2005 From: DAVEROTH101 at wmconnect.com (DAVEROTH101@wmconnect.com) Date: Sun Apr 10 18:13:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 11, Issue 11 Message-ID: In a message dated 4/10/2005 6:03:03 PM Pacific Standard Time, rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com writes: > I doubt any of the dirt roads in the Owyhees which includes Graveyard Point > etc. are driveable. Then again you might get lucky. Tip: most of the easily > accessible sites you mention from Gem Trails of Oregon are either wrong > (location) or so heavily collected there isn't much nt to stopping. > Hello... I am new to the group...but i just wanted to let the person know that the roads are in pretty good shape....dry in at least the Rome area and down in Mcdermitt...but like Tim said *they can change in a hurry*.....gem trails map of Oregon is off, as Tim said but using that with the Gps gem trail guide, that you can still find materials in those locations.... Dave Leave no rock behind.. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at verizon.net Sun Apr 10 18:54:46 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Apr 10 18:54:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] bad knees In-Reply-To: References: <002f01c53e0a$63a5ea20$01fea8c0@Pteraphyte> <9B1B7810-AA01-11D9-82EC-000A95773806@mindspring.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050410112959.02634ae8@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050410154232.0263cbf8@incoming.verizon.net> Perhaps it was confusing for me to use the word "monopod" to refer to something to sit on, rather than to support a camera. I too have a hiking pole where you can unscrew the handle and then screw on a camera. But I was trying to describe a cane that can open into a seat that has only one leg. I also described one that unfolds into a tripod chair---not a tripod for a camera. KH At 02:27 PM 4/10/2005, you wrote: >A lot of hikers use their hiking pole (or one of the pair of poles) as >a monopod, all you have to do is epoxy a 1/4 inch bolt to the top of >the grip. The thread on cameras is 1/4 inch. > >BK > >On Apr 10, 2005 7:49 PM, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I have had surgeries to both knees and Bill has an artificial hip. So we > > have experience with the problems Carol mentions, and I expect some other > > rockhounds may have similar difficulties. I found the items listed below > > on the Web (and I'm not promoting or profiting). The first type I've found > > in the past at large sporting goods stores. They are comfortable and > > stable, but a bit awkward to carry or pack on a trip. The second we got in > > England and still use; in fact it stays in the back of the car just in > > case. It takes a while to get used to a monopod, but it works as a cane or > > walking stick, and is height adjustable; I use it fully extended as a > > walking stick, then change to lowest height to sit while looking at stuff > > on the ground. The third item I have not seen in person; it looks > > convenient for carrying and traveling, but it doesn't seem to be height > > adjustable. Hope this helps. > > > > Folding Seat Cane: Cane has a seat that flips down to make a tripod chair. > > > http://www.specialty-medical.com/indexproducts.html > > > > Spectator Seat: a walking cane with a sling top that folds out to a > > monopod seat, height adjustable. > > http://www.spectatorseats.com/ > > > > Flipstick: Top flips to make a monopod bicycle-type seat. One version can > > fold into a carrying case with shoulder strap. > > > http://www.myles-rec.com/Recreation/Flipstick/flipstick.htm > > > > Aloha, Kitty > > > > At 10:46 AM 4/10/2005, Carol Bova wrote: > > >....I do have to work out some adaptations for my knee limitations > > >though. I couldn't sit at the sluice because the bench is too low. I was > > >told the best way to find material is to sit on the ground and go through > > >the newly dumped material. I could get down, but then I'd have a > > >diffficult time getting up again... I'll bring some kind of folding seat > > >next time. I did get some nice amazonite, mostly in small pieces for > > >cutting. No exciting crystals this trip.. but there's always next time. > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tome61 at aol.com Sun Apr 10 19:13:30 2005 From: tome61 at aol.com (tome61@aol.com) Date: Sun Apr 10 19:13:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Trip to Morefield Mine In-Reply-To: <200504110102.j3B12LWr008003@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200504110102.j3B12LWr008003@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <8C70C533070202C-C3C-14CB1@mblk-r43.sysops.aol.com> Carol, I am glad that you had a good time at the Morefield Mine. I sympathize with you and Kitty and others who have knee or hip or back issues (yes, the back often goes on these kinds of trips), and even though I haven?t had surgery of any kind in those area, I?ve noticed that over the years, the joints just ain?t as pliant as they used to be. The things we do to further our love of this hobby, eh ? Although my being a devout Catholic has little to do with this thread, we do OFTEN have to kneel at services (and I can tell you that the RC church has DONE NOTHING to improve the kneelers), so I often improvise and bounce back and forth on my knees or use my shins instead. This seems to work well, and also works well in the field. And, despite the enormous amount of glances I get in the field, I sometimes find that its just as easy to get down, all the way down, on my back and/or stomach and search that way. After all, if you?re going to get sweaty and dirty, at least make an interesting presentation. While any of you are visiting the Morefield Mine, it would be a good idea to ask if any of the surrounding collecting areas are now open. Featuring beryl and tourmaline and topaz, if I remember correctly. They are all private lands, the prior owners have passed on, and their children are just not sure how and if they want to handle the collection issue. Ask Sam (owner of Morefield) the next time you?re there. Regards, Tom Russell -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 18:02:24 -0700 Subject: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 11, Issue 11 Send Rockhounds mailing list submissions to rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com You can reach the person managing the list at rockhounds-owner@lists.drizzle.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Rockhounds digest..." [Rockhounds-Digest] Today's Topics: 1. Re: Morefield Mine (TomE61@aol.com) 2. Re: Intro, plus some questions... (Tim Fisher) 3. Re: Feather Quartz? (John and Gloria Cornish) 4. Re: Intro, plus some questions... (Lanny) 5. Re: Intro, plus some questions... (Peter J. Modreski) 6. Re: Intro, plus some questions... (Tim Fisher) 7. Re: Intro, plus some questions... (Julie Siebel) 8. Morefield Mine (James A. Rollins) 9. Re: Morefield Mine (Carol J. Bova) 10. bad knees (Kitty & Bill Heacox) 11. Re: bad knees (J Bryan Kramer) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 09:36:04 -0400 From: TomE61@aol.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Morefield Mine To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Message-ID: <6CDA8EA8.55E11772.00054D98@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 The Morefield Mine is a great place to visit and collect. I was there for two entire days last September and had a wonderful time. The gift shop is well stocked and the prices are reasonable, in case you get tired of sifting. Amazonite, garnet, amethyst and mica are abundant here and easily collected. The sluicing is just a lot of fun. When the owner begins to dump a new load for the day, its exciting and worth waiting around for. I don?t think you?ll be disappointed. Regards, Tom Russell ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 07:05:46 -0700 From: Tim Fisher Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Intro, plus some questions... To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050410070224.02646be0@mail.spiritone.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I doubt any of the dirt roads in the Owyhees which includes Graveyard Point etc. are driveable. Then again you might get lucky. Tip: most of the easily accessible sites you mention from Gem Trails of Oregon are either wrong (location) or so heavily collected there isn't much point to stopping. At 10:02 AM 4/9/2005, you wrote: >>Boise Area: >>-Sheaville >>-Succor Creek >>-Coal Mine Basin Jasper >>-McBride >>-S. of Homedale >>-Sommercamp Road >>-Graveyard Point >>-Owyhee Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 07:56:46 -0700 From: John and Gloria Cornish Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Feather Quartz? To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <42593EAE.3050203@tenforward.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi Lanny and Everyone, Thank you for taking the time to respond to this thread. I appreciate it. All the very best, John Lanny wrote: > Hi John, > > Great photo. It is almost astounding in its appearance as a feather, > one can see why some people would look at it as evidence of a fossil. > > It is of course only a crystal growth feature, specifically an > interference pattern, the equivalent of striations. Large masses of > quartz are not a single grain, but are composed of many grains of > quartz (or crude crystals if you prefer). If you look at very much of > this "massive" quartz broken up, you will see a few crystal faces, > or more often, these zones where the crystals trying to form faces > fought a battle with the adjoining grain over which crystal gets to > occuppy the space and which one loses the battle. > > Typically, striations in quartz are seen on the m faces, and cut the > c axis at 90 degrees. They are formed by the competition of the m > face with the r or z face as the crystal grows. If you look at the > striations of a crystal closely, you will see that it is actually a > little step where an r face shows. As you go up the face of the > crystal you are seeing m face r face m face, etc. > > Rarely, and I have one, the striations are at an angle, because they > formed from the battle between the m face and a lesser face such as > an s or x face (those little faces generally seen at the corners > where the m faces meet the r faces. > > If you should happen to get this happening on two adjoining m faces, > you would get a chevron. If this should happen in the formation of > two of those large grains of quartz in "massive" quartz with the two > grains growing against each other, it would produce the feature in > that photo. > > At least that's how I visualize that it could happen. > > Regards, > > Lanny > > > On Apr 3, 2005, at 9:47 AM, John and Gloria Cornish wrote: > >> Hi Everyone, >> >> I've got a question regarding Quartz which I'd like to bounce off >> the list. It is my hope that some of you have additionally seen >> this quartz phenomenon in specimens which perhaps you've also >> puzzled over and that I may achieve a more through understanding of >> Feather Quartz. >> >> Back in '89 or '90, we went for a collecting trip to Hallelujah >> Junction (Peterson Peak), right on the California/ Nevada border. >> Among the treasures we found was an oddly deformed smokey-amethyst >> quartz specimen which had obviously broken free from a much larger >> crystal. On the opposite side of the break, and free of any damage, >> was a 2 x 2 inch area where growth features converged to create a >> feather-like pattern. I marveled over this neat little mystery and >> then set the piece aside.... until just the other day, when in the >> midst of a worldwide internet surfing marathon, I came across this >> link and immediately recognized the same feather-like features as >> displayed on my specimen from years ago... >> >> http://reversonet.lycos.de/result.asp? >> direction=65540&template=General&autotranslate=true&url=http:// >> www.kristalle.ch/sammlung/federquarz.asp >> >> The paleo references to this feature as presented at this site are >> obviously without merit, but the photo is clear and mimics the >> features displayed in our specimen. The angle of the crystal faces >> where they converge in the center of the feature have not been >> measured, but when comparing the photo to my hand specimen, they >> seem approximate. >> >> When doing a search of Feather Quartz or Quartz Feathers, this link... >> >> http://www.maden.hacettepe.edu.tr/dmmrt/dmmrt428.html >> >> ... gave the following... >> >> Imperfect quartz crystals that meet at an angle of a crystallographic >> plane so that a cross section somewhat resembles a feather. >> >> And so, here we are and now to my questions... >> >> #1 What is happening here? >> >> #2 Is this a "common" feature from some deposits? >> >> And last, your own individual thoughts. Thank you for taking the >> time to help. All the very best, >> >> John >> >> PS If needed, a photo of my specimen can be sent. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 09:44:15 -0700 From: Lanny Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Intro, plus some questions... To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Hi Pete, Much of it will still be there when you retire, although, as Tim mentioned in his message, many of the areas have been heavily picked over. That isn't always a problem for areas where digging is productive, but in areas where there is only surface material, the pickings get mighty slim. There must be something new out there though! Regards, Lanny On Apr 9, 2005, at 3:52 PM, Peter J. Modreski wrote: > Happy hunting, John! > > Lanny, I'll have to save your email with the collecting site comments > myself, in case I ever make it up that way with time to go mineral > collecting. "Hasn't happened yet in this lifetime", but you never > know. > When I retire? > > Pete ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:11:05 -0600 From: "Peter J. Modreski" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Intro, plus some questions... To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <002901c53df0$491cd980$2ea5490c@pete> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" I feel like I've been so fortunate, to get to collect minerals at some many places in my life already, that whatever I get to do in future years, will just be a bonus! I know I've been to a lot of places that are now closed/gone/buried/picked over, all those things. And I could profitably use all the time I have, just to finish going through anything I've got boxed away, and rediscovering what it was that I had collected way back that many years ago, and, aha!, wow, I'd almost forgotten about this; and getting it all properly catalogued and labelled and put on display. Only one of me and so many rocks--how can I complain? Cheers to all (from a very snowy Sunday morning in Denver!), Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 10:44 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Intro, plus some questions... > Hi Pete, > > Much of it will still be there when you retire, although, as Tim > mentioned in his message, many of the areas have been heavily picked > over. That isn't always a problem for areas where digging is > productive, but in areas where there is only surface material, the > pickings get mighty slim. > > There must be something new out there though! > > Regards, > > Lanny > ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:05:07 -0700 From: Tim Fisher Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Intro, plus some questions... To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050410110308.02699be0@mail.spiritone.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Yes, e.g. the "Sheaville" sites in Gem Trails are wrong, and if they aren't they are so picked over that no evidence that anything was ever there is left. BUT, if you move a few miles on 95, you will find the leaf fossils (insert shameless plug for my CD here :) ) At 09:44 AM 4/10/2005, you wrote: >Hi Pete, > >Much of it will still be there when you retire, although, as Tim mentioned >in his message, many of the areas have been heavily picked over. That >isn't always a problem for areas where digging is productive, but in areas >where there is only surface material, the pickings get mighty slim. > >There must be something new out there though! Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:16:52 -0700 From: "Julie Siebel" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Intro, plus some questions... To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <001d01c53df9$7d0a3860$12b4010a@warren> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Generally what John and I do is print out detailed topo maps...often we don't go to the specific area in the guides, just to the *general* area. We also are happy with small things - it's great to find museum quality specimens, but as a fisherman friend of mine says, "that's why they call it 'fishing' not 'catching'." Consequently, visiting a site and finding a few small bits and pieces is fun as well. (Though I'm really hoping for a museum specimen - lol) One year I found a list of all the quarries - past, present and future - for the Gifford Pinchot national forest, listed by township/section etc. I marked them all on a map and we visited nearly every one...it took some time, many of them were obviously bare, but we did find some agate and jasper at a few, as well as some really sweet plates of quartz and various zeolites, copper associates, etc. The hunt was fabulous! God, I love this hobby. That said, truck is packed, maps are printed, GPS is loaded and it's time to go! Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Intro, plus some questions... > Yes, e.g. the "Sheaville" sites in Gem Trails are wrong, and if they > aren't they are so picked over that no evidence that anything was ever > there is left. BUT, if you move a few miles on 95, you will find the leaf > fossils (insert shameless plug for my CD here :) ) > > At 09:44 AM 4/10/2005, you wrote: > >>Hi Pete, >> >>Much of it will still be there when you retire, although, as Tim mentioned >>in his message, many of the areas have been heavily picked over. That >>isn't always a problem for areas where digging is productive, but in areas >>where there is only surface material, the pickings get mighty slim. >> >>There must be something new out there though! > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:17:58 -0400 From: "James A. Rollins" Subject: [Rockhounds] Morefield Mine To: Message-ID: <002f01c53e0a$63a5ea20$01fea8c0@Pteraphyte> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" When does the Morefield Mine open? Do they have a web site? Also, since my first message probably went into cyberspace: Has anyone grown copper crystals at home? What factors control the size of the crystals. How big can you grow them? James A. Rollins --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:46:25 -0400 From: "Carol J. Bova" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Morefield Mine To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <9B1B7810-AA01-11D9-82EC-000A95773806@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Hi folks, First, let me thank everyone for their help and information on list and off... I went yesterday and had a great time, and will definitely be going back again. The ride from here was easy, and the weather was outstanding. I do have to work out some adaptations for my knee limitations though. I couldn't sit at the sluice because the bench is too low. I was told the best way to find material is to sit on the ground and go through the newly dumped material. I could get down, but then I'd have a diffficult time getting up again, so I picked up a shovelful at a time standing, and sorted through, picking out likely chunks. I'll bring some kind of folding seat next time. I did get some nice amazonite, mostly in small pieces for cutting. No exciting crystals this trip.. but there's always next time. James, The mine is open to the public on Saturdays, 9:30-4:30 until the summer schedule starts in July. They don't have a website, but this one has all the details you need: http://www.toteshows.com/morefield.html and you can reach the owners by phone if you need to. Have fun! Carol in Mathews, VA On Sunday, April 10, 2005, at 04:17 PM, James A. Rollins wrote: > When does the Morefield Mine open? Do they have a web site? > Also, since my first message probably went into cyberspace: > Has anyone grown copper crystals at home? What factors control the > size of the crystals. How big can you grow them? > > James A. Rollins > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 13:49:11 -1000 From: Kitty & Bill Heacox Subject: [Rockhounds] bad knees To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050410112959.02634ae8@incoming.verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi all, I have had surgeries to both knees and Bill has an artificial hip. So we have experience with the problems Carol mentions, and I expect some other rockhounds may have similar difficulties. I found the items listed below on the Web (and I'm not promoting or profiting). The first type I've found in the past at large sporting goods stores. They are comfortable and stable, but a bit awkward to carry or pack on a trip. The second we got in England and still use; in fact it stays in the back of the car just in case. It takes a while to get used to a monopod, but it works as a cane or walking stick, and is height adjustable; I use it fully extended as a walking stick, then change to lowest height to sit while looking at stuff on the ground. The third item I have not seen in person; it looks convenient for carrying and traveling, but it doesn't seem to be height adjustable. Hope this helps. Folding Seat Cane: Cane has a seat that flips down to make a tripod chair. http://www.specialty-medical.com/indexproducts.html Spectator Seat: a walking cane with a sling top that folds out to a monopod seat, height adjustable. http://www.spectatorseats.com/ Flipstick: Top flips to make a monopod bicycle-type seat. One version can fold into a carrying case with shoulder strap. http://www.myles-rec.com/Recreation/Flipstick/flipstick.htm Aloha, Kitty At 10:46 AM 4/10/2005, Carol Bova wrote: >....I do have to work out some adaptations for my knee limitations >though. I couldn't sit at the sluice because the bench is too low. I was >told the best way to find material is to sit on the ground and go through >the newly dumped material. I could get down, but then I'd have a >diffficult time getting up again... I'll bring some kind of folding seat >next time. I did get some nice amazonite, mostly in small pieces for >cutting. No exciting crystals this trip.. but there's always next time. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 20:27:17 -0400 From: J Bryan Kramer Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] bad knees To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 A lot of hikers use their hiking pole (or one of the pair of poles) as a monopod, all you have to do is epoxy a 1/4 inch bolt to the top of the grip. The thread on cameras is 1/4 inch. BK On Apr 10, 2005 7:49 PM, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > Hi all, > > I have had surgeries to both knees and Bill has an artificial hip. So we > have experience with the problems Carol mentions, and I expect some other > rockhounds may have similar difficulties. I found the items listed below > on the Web (and I'm not promoting or profiting). The first type I've found > in the past at large sporting goods stores. They are comfortable and > stable, but a bit awkward to carry or pack on a trip. The second we got in > England and still use; in fact it stays in the back of the car just in > case. It takes a while to get used to a monopod, but it works as a cane or > walking stick, and is height adjustable; I use it fully extended as a > walking stick, then change to lowest height to sit while looking at stuff > on the ground. The third item I have not seen in person; it looks > convenient for carrying and traveling, but it doesn't seem to be height > adjustable. Hope this helps. > > Folding Seat Cane: Cane has a seat that flips down to make a tripod chair. > http://www.specialty-medical.com/indexproducts.html > > Spectator Seat: a walking cane with a sling top that folds out to a > monopod seat, height adjustable. > http://www.spectatorseats.com/ > > Flipstick: Top flips to make a monopod bicycle-type seat. One version can > fold into a carrying case with shoulder strap. > http://www.myles-rec.com/Recreation/Flipstick/flipstick.htm > > Aloha, Kitty > > At 10:46 AM 4/10/2005, Carol Bova wrote: > >....I do have to work out some adaptations for my knee limitations > >though. I couldn't sit at the sluice because the bench is too low. I was > >told the best way to find material is to sit on the ground and go through > >the newly dumped material. I could get down, but then I'd have a > >diffficult time getting up again... I'll bring some kind of folding seat > >next time. I did get some nice amazonite, mostly in small pieces for > >cutting. No exciting crystals this trip.. but there's always next time. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Rockhounds mailing list Rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds End of Rockhounds Digest, Vol 11, Issue 11 ****************************************** --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From xossfs at yahoo.com Sun Apr 10 19:26:36 2005 From: xossfs at yahoo.com (Stephen Stover) Date: Sun Apr 10 19:26:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] identification In-Reply-To: <20050406061519.16767.qmail@web30408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050411022636.81637.qmail@web20026.mail.yahoo.com> yeah that is a good price don't expect to get much more for thme though. --- Craig Elliott wrote: > Thanks. I paid $10.00 each for the two 6"x7"x5" > crystal formations I picked a few years ago. Any > idea if that is a good price? I haven't seen any for > sale since. Alot of people up here (Vancouver BC) > ask me where to get them. > > Craig > > Stephen Stover wrote: > It is grown in large balst furnaces. Then the > material is crushed into fine sand to make > everything > form the non skid on your staircase to the balck > sand > paper you find in a hardware store. It can be > pressed > with glue into a wheel and used as grinding wheels > and > such. The crystals occasionly gorw when voids are > found in the material used to create the SiC. The > crystals are mcuh rarer now then they were a decade > ago. > > My father has been selling this stuff since the late > 70's. Mcuh of the material now comes out of China > however we do make alot in the US and Europe. > > > --- Craig Elliott wrote: > > Thank you everybody for the info. It is Silicon > > carbide. Where do they grow this? > > > > Craig. > > > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > Warm to the touch!? Cold fusion or what ;-> > > > > Bryan > > > > On Apr 5, 2005 11:40 AM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > Silicon carbide? Very light, very hard (cuts > > glass) and warm to the touch... > > > Turns up on every mineal show along with > synthetic > > zincite and bismuth ;-))) > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > Axel > > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > > > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens > > Pete Richards > > > Verzonden: dinsdag 5 april 2005 16:53 > > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for > > rock and gem collectors > > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] identification > > > > > > > > > Given your description, I suspect it is silicon > > carbide, which occurs as > > > black hexagonal tabular crystal aggregates that > > often have irridescence in > > > the blues and greens. It is synthetic, and is > > produced for use as an > > > abrasive. > > > > > > Pete Richards > > > > > > >Hi, I am tyring to identify a mineral that I > was > > told was Silicium from > > > Poland. It is prismatic blue/black/green. If it > is > > Silicium, is it natural > > > or lab grown? > > > > > > > >Thank you for any help, > > > >Craig. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > > > >Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > > > > > > > > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts > --- > > > >multipart/mixed > > > > multipart/alternative > > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > > text/html > > > > image/pjpeg > > > > image/pjpeg > > > >--- > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > >Subscription Services: > > > > > > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > -- > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > R. Peter Richards > > > rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu > > > > > > Mineral collector > > > Crystallographer > > > SHAPE for the Macintosh > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > Stephen F. Stover > PH (281) 829-1102 > xossfs@yahoo.com > > Wanting to hunt rocks > and play games every day! > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Personals - Better first dates. More second > dates. > http://personals.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --------------------------------- > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > Stephen F. Stover PH (281) 829-1102 xossfs@yahoo.com Wanting to hunt rocks and play games every day! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Sun Apr 10 20:53:40 2005 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sun Apr 10 20:53:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] bad knees References: <002f01c53e0a$63a5ea20$01fea8c0@Pteraphyte><9B1B7810-AA01-11D9-82EC-000A95773806@mindspring.com><6.2.1.2.0.20050410112959.02634ae8@incoming.verizon.net> <6.2.1.2.0.20050410154232.0263cbf8@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <003b01c53e4a$0c667370$6501a8c0@GlennWimpee> One of my knees is titanium, and I have a lightweight folding tripod seat with a shoulder strap, so if i need to sit for a bit I can...if i don't forget to take it along on a hike or just a shopping trip. I also have good kneepads for hounding and gardening. Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" > Perhaps it was confusing for me to use the word "monopod" to refer to > something to sit on, rather than to support a camera. I too have a hiking > pole where you can unscrew the handle and then screw on a camera. But I > was trying to describe a cane that can open into a seat that has only one > leg. I also described one that unfolds into a tripod chair---not a tripod > for a camera. > > KH > From bova at mindspring.com Mon Apr 11 09:36:04 2005 From: bova at mindspring.com (Carol J. Bova) Date: Mon Apr 11 09:31:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] bad knees In-Reply-To: <003b01c53e4a$0c667370$6501a8c0@GlennWimpee> Message-ID: Thanks Kitty and Glenn, Great ideas. Reminded me of cabelas.com, and I checked online and they have a folding hunting stool (TravelChair Stealth Cooler Chair) that would work well for my purposes. even has a cooler under the seat I could stick a couple of water bottles into, and a backrest, and comes with shoulder straps. I'm going to get one of the cane types too, for walking around town or shopping expeditions. (Glenn, now you've got me curious if my knees are titanium too.. have to look them up and see.) Tom, The last 5 years before I got my new knees, the only way I could collect was to stretch out on the ground. *g* Took an exercise mat along, unrolled it and got down there and dug. Worked especially well on slight slopes. I think I'm going to talk to my trainer at the Y about getting up off the floor exercises. Bet she'll have some ideas. Carol On Sunday, April 10, 2005, at 11:53 PM, Glenn Wimpee wrote: > One of my knees is titanium, and I have a lightweight folding tripod > seat with a shoulder strap, so if i need to sit for a bit I can...if i > don't forget to take it along on a hike or just a shopping trip. > I also have good kneepads for hounding and gardening. > > Glenn > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" > > > >> Perhaps it was confusing for me to use the word "monopod" to refer to >> something to sit on, rather than to support a camera. I too have a >> hiking pole where you can unscrew the handle and then screw on a >> camera. But I was trying to describe a cane that can open into a >> seat that has only one leg. I also described one that unfolds into a >> tripod chair---not a tripod for a camera. >> >> KH >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From tim at orerockon.com Mon Apr 11 11:19:23 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Apr 11 11:19:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: GPS Locations etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050411111456.02620ba0@mail.spiritone.com> See my page, I don't want this to be an ad but I cross checked almost all the Gem Trails locations and GPS Guide waypoints with my own and found quite a few were off so far you would never find the site... http://orerockon.com/dont%20buy%20Gem%20Trails.htm At 06:13 PM 4/10/2005, you wrote: >In a message dated 4/10/2005 6:03:03 PM Pacific Standard Time, >rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com writes: > > > I doubt any of the dirt roads in the Owyhees which includes Graveyard > Point > > etc. are driveable. Then again you might get lucky. Tip: most of the > easily > > accessible sites you mention from Gem Trails of Oregon are either wrong > > (location) or so heavily collected there isn't much nt to stopping. > > >Hello... >I am new to the group...but i just wanted to let the person know that the >roads are in pretty good shape....dry in at least the Rome area and down in >Mcdermitt...but like Tim said *they can change in a hurry*.....gem trails >map of >Oregon is off, as Tim said but using that with the Gps gem trail guide, >that you >can still find materials in those locations.... >Dave > >Leave no rock behind.. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From agesilaus at gmail.com Mon Apr 11 11:33:34 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Apr 11 11:33:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] More NASA thievery Message-ID: Here is a story about more thievery of NASA artifacts: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7424762/ This time by a museum director in Kansas. Bryan From rik.dillen at skynet.be Mon Apr 11 12:42:46 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Mon Apr 11 12:42:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] More NASA thievery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200504111942.j3BJgm1M021087@outmx028.isp.belgacom.be> I have the strong impression that all types of NASA properties are very popular for numerous people. No thanks, I don't want a rocket nose in my living room... If it continues like this NASA will have to construct their own specialised prison. Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 8:34 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] More NASA thievery Here is a story about more thievery of NASA artifacts: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7424762/ This time by a museum director in Kansas. Bryan _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Apr 11 13:15:02 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Apr 11 13:14:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] More NASA thievery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry about that... I must have dozed off for a minute! (ROFL) Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens J Bryan Kramer Verzonden: maandag 11 april 2005 20:34 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] More NASA thievery Here is a story about more thievery of NASA artifacts: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7424762/ This time by a museum director in Kansas. Bryan _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu Mon Apr 11 13:19:56 2005 From: william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu (William Cordua) Date: Mon Apr 11 13:19:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Discovery Channel show on supervolcano In-Reply-To: <200504111942.j3BJgm1M021087@outmx028.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: Hi all, Last night the Discovery Channel aired a 3 hour program showing "what if" the Yellowstone area experienced a mega-eruption similar to those of the geologic past. Most of it was a fictionalized account with lots of special effects of the "worst case" scenario. It was followed by Tom Brokaw interviewing real geologists. Any one else catch this? If so, any thoughts? I thought it was overly alarmist, but fun if you took it in the "disaster movie" mode in which it is intended. And the geology looked right too. Since it was produced by BBC, most USGS geologist had British accents (How about that Peter?) It is to be rerun next Saturday. Check your local listings. Best wishes - Bill C. From JScully216 at aol.com Mon Apr 11 13:22:59 2005 From: JScully216 at aol.com (JScully216@aol.com) Date: Mon Apr 11 13:23:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Discovery Channel show on supervolcano Message-ID: <148.4229667b.2f8c36a3@aol.com> Whatever the scientific merits, it was a great show. I just hope that Las Vegas, NM is not in any future ash path. In a message dated 4/11/2005 2:20:26 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu writes: Hi all, Last night the Discovery Channel aired a 3 hour program showing "what if" the Yellowstone area experienced a mega-eruption similar to those of the geologic past. Most of it was a fictionalized account with lots of special effects of the "worst case" scenario. It was followed by Tom Brokaw interviewing real geologists. Any one else catch this? If so, any thoughts? I thought it was overly alarmist, but fun if you took it in the "disaster movie" mode in which it is intended. And the geology looked right too. Since it was produced by BBC, most USGS geologist had British accents (How about that Peter?) It is to be rerun next Saturday. Check your local listings. Best wishes - Bill C. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Mon Apr 11 13:45:28 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Mon Apr 11 13:45:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: GPS Locations etc. In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050411111456.02620ba0@mail.spiritone.com> References: <6.2.1.2.2.20050411111456.02620ba0@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <425AE1E8.3070104@att.net> Tim Fisher wrote: > See my page, I don't want this to be an ad but I cross checked almost > all the Gem Trails locations and GPS Guide waypoints with my own and > found quite a few were off so far you would never find the site... > > http://orerockon.com/dont%20buy%20Gem%20Trails.htm > I'm mostly interested in Arizona (at the moment), but your comments go for the Gem Trails AZ book, as well. Not entirely worthless, but has led to more lost time than productive rockhounding. I picked up the GPS guide, and it seems nearly worthless even if the points were accurate, since there's no correlation to the guide books he claims to give locations for. Or did I miss something obvious? From agesilaus at gmail.com Mon Apr 11 13:52:05 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Apr 11 13:52:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Discovery Channel show on supervolcano In-Reply-To: <148.4229667b.2f8c36a3@aol.com> References: <148.4229667b.2f8c36a3@aol.com> Message-ID: There seems like there has been a lot of mass media attention to these super volcanoes lately. Maybe some group looking for grants? It's not like there is anything that could be done about them if one erupts. How do you stop the Siberian or Deccan Traps? Just driviong across southern Idaho makes you think of what could happen, and the lava beds extend into Washington and Oregon too. The western US is littered with geologically recent cinder cones any of which could erupt, plus there is always the Long Valley Caldera and Lake Mono. Bryan On Apr 11, 2005 4:22 PM, JScully216@aol.com wrote: > > Whatever the scientific merits, it was a great show. I just hope that Las > Vegas, NM is not in any future ash path. > > In a message dated 4/11/2005 2:20:26 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, > william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu writes: > > Hi all, > > Last night the Discovery Channel aired a 3 hour program showing "what if" > the Yellowstone area experienced a mega-eruption similar to those of the > geologic past. Most of it was a fictionalized account with lots of special > effects of the "worst case" scenario. It was followed by Tom Brokaw > interviewing real geologists. Any one else catch this? If so, any thoughts? > I thought it was overly alarmist, but fun if you took it in the "disaster > movie" mode in which it is intended. And the geology looked right too. Since > it was produced by BBC, most USGS geologist had British accents (How about > that Peter?) It is to be rerun next Saturday. Check your local listings. > > Best wishes - Bill C. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From tim at orerockon.com Mon Apr 11 14:05:54 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Apr 11 14:05:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: GPS Locations etc. In-Reply-To: <425AE1E8.3070104@att.net> References: <6.2.1.2.2.20050411111456.02620ba0@mail.spiritone.com> <425AE1E8.3070104@att.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050411135313.027a1c00@mail.spiritone.com> No, you didn't miss anything. The author of the GPS Guide read some books and looked at some maps. He used topo software to get coordinates from said maps. He got the sources wrong at least as often as he got the coordinates wrong. There was very little or NO QA/QC associated with this book, which my main complaint about printing paper guides to anything (plus, I am sure he did a rush job to beat the "competition" of which there is no one else dumb enough to publish a book of GPS coordinates lol). Once they are in print they are cast in stone, and "updates" in the form of new books are just a way to make more $$ off the same schmucks you ripped off in the first place. Vis-a-vis the "updated" OR Gem Trails which had a few (not by any means all of) the bogus sites crossed off (not even removed from the book, mind you, just X-ed out). Publishing on electronic media allows for mistakes to be corrected and easily reissued via downloads or email. What is worse than useless, IMHO, is to provide someone with GPS waypoints without ANY accompanying maps or other info. Try to navigate to a GPS waypoint when you don't have the slightest idea of where you are going or how to get there :( Good luck and take your survival gear! Oh yes, he looked up who owns the land. In many cases, that info was also incorrect. As well as the materials available at many of the supposed "sites". Thereby compounding and further propagating the errors in the original books. At least the authors of the Gem Trails series CLAIM to have visited each location in their books, although how Mitchell could have visited some of the OR locations and then got the directions, location, and materials available completely wrong is beyond me... At 01:45 PM 4/11/2005, you wrote: >I'm mostly interested in Arizona (at the moment), but your comments go for >the Gem Trails AZ book, as well. Not entirely worthless, but has led to >more lost time than productive rockhounding. I picked up the GPS guide, >and it seems nearly worthless even if the points were accurate, since >there's no correlation to the guide books he claims to give locations for. >Or did I miss something obvious? Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From kahako at verizon.net Mon Apr 11 14:37:03 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Apr 11 14:37:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] a festival, and lava Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050411112257.025eae28@incoming.verizon.net> The first part of this is Hawaiian culture, with only a vague connection to volcanoes. If you only want rockhound stuff, skip to the last paragraph. Last weekend we celebrated the 42nd annual Merrie Monarch Festival here in Hilo, Hawaii. It is a week-long cultural event that starts on Easter Sunday and culminates with a hula competition held in a covered tennis stadium (for protection from rain; we get between 130 and 200 inches a year). There's a parade with floats and women in Victorian style dresses riding side-saddle on horses with huge flower leis around their necks. There are a half a dozen large Hawaiian craft fairs at various locations around town. Slack key guitar music and workshops on all matters of Hawaiian culture abound all over town. On Wednesday is a free exhibition hula performance, Miss Aloha Hula competition is on Thursday, Hula Kahiko (ancient, or traditional hula) on Friday, and on Saturday is Hula 'Auana (modern-day, informal hula). Competition is of very high caliber, and rules require that all accompaniment be sung, played or chanted live (no recordings), and costumes be made of natural fibers---most are made by the performers. Dance troupes (halau) come from all over the state as well as from some areas on the US mainland and occasionally from other countries (this year there was a halau from Japan). Tourists and Hawaiiana enthusiasts pour in from the other islands and from around the world, so hotel rooms are booked months in advance, and extra rental cars are shipped over on barges from Honolulu to fill the extraordinary demand. The dance groups---often consisting of 30 or more members---are put up in gymnasiums, auditoriums, armories and club houses where they will have something that can function as a dance floor for last minute rehearsals. The whole state considers this an extremely special week, and preparations for next year's festival have already begun. The Merrie Monarch of the title was King David Kalakaua, the last reigning ruler of the Kingdom of Hawai'i. In his reign he did much to encourage and preserve Hawaiian culture, especially its language, music and dance. In 1874 he was the first monarch of a foreign country to visit the United States, and in Washington D.C. people were wildly excited, hanging bunting on all the buildings, and holding parades and receptions. He was given special audiences by President Ulysses S. Grant and a joint session of Congress. King Kalakaua left such positive impressions that Hawaii was granted a full Reciprocity Treaty with the U.S.A. in 1875. Hula dance always tells a story, and a favorite theme is Madame Pele, the goddess of volcanoes. One dance at this year's Miss Aloha Hula competition featured a young woman playing the role of Pele. She wore a dress with an ankle-length full skirt colored dark gray---like basalt---and underneath she wore bright red petticoats and pantaloons. Certain twirls and movements of her feet caused the red undergarments to flip up and be revealed, suggesting molten lava. The effect was electrifying! Perhaps inspired by this dance and the festive feeling in the whole town, Bill and I took a day off and returned to the Volcanoes National Park to explore an area near Mauna Ulu, a large cinder cone that still has steaming vents. The main lava flows in that area date from 1969 to 1974. There are large areas of a'a, as well as some pahoehoe, and many other interesting features, including tumulus, great open areas of lapilli, hornitos, and tree molds; these terms can be seen in the USGS photo glossary at: http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/Products/Pglossary/pglossary.html Tucked within crevasses and holes we found many clumps of reticulite, which I call "Pele's Sponge;" it looks like natural sea sponge or the froth sometimes seen at an ocean beach, and a grapefruit-sized chunk of it will blow away in the wind like a tumbleweed. It's fun to examine the honeycomb structure of burst glass bubbles under a loupe. The most beautiful and interesting feature of the area is the iridescence, however. Fortunately we were able to walk far enough from the road in the direction of the Park boundary to we were pretty certain we were outside of the Park, and collected some specimens. The colors are mostly in small patches, but they look as vivid and shiny as "day-glow" model enamel or nail polish! ...bright turquoise, magenta, chartreuse, gold, silver, and rich deep purple and indigo. Some time ago someone on this list made a remark indicating that iridescence would probably fade or disappear with time and weathering. Well, this material has been on the ground exposed to sun, rain, and hikers' boots for over 30 years, and it is still gorgeous! We've sent a box of some samples to Axel, and he is going to try to learn more about this beautiful stuff and eventually share the results of his investigations. Aloha, Kitty (and Bill) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Mon Apr 11 17:00:03 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Mon Apr 11 17:00:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Discovery Channel show on supervolcano References: Message-ID: <009001c53ef2$94746170$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> My wife watched it and I passed through the room a lot. For the disaster genre, it seemed to be well done. Certainly the acting wasn't top notch, but most people don't watch DC for acting. There have been many worse disaster movies that that one. She didn't consider it to be overly alarmist, but like me she watches movies for entertainment, not education! My wife explained the rationale of why several of the geologists had British accents, but it is way too convoluted for my brain! Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Cordua" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 4:19 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Discovery Channel show on supervolcano > Hi all, > > Last night the Discovery Channel aired a 3 hour program showing "what if" > the Yellowstone area experienced a mega-eruption similar to those of the > geologic past. Most of it was a fictionalized account with lots of special > effects of the "worst case" scenario. It was followed by Tom Brokaw > interviewing real geologists. Any one else catch this? If so, any > thoughts? > I thought it was overly alarmist, but fun if you took it in the "disaster > movie" mode in which it is intended. And the geology looked right too. > Since > it was produced by BBC, most USGS geologist had British accents (How about > that Peter?) It is to be rerun next Saturday. Check your local listings. > > Best wishes - Bill C. > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Apr 11 18:03:04 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Apr 11 17:59:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Morefield Mine References: <002f01c53e0a$63a5ea20$01fea8c0@Pteraphyte> Message-ID: <425B1D8B.CEF@Tomaszewski.net> James A. Rollins wrote: > Has anyone grown copper crystals at home? What factors control the size of the crystals. How big can you grow them? > > James A. Rollins > James, According to MinRec [v.23 n.2 p.26] the copper in the Keweenaw Peninsula was deposited by saline and slightly alkaline fluid (buried seawater percolating up porus fault and fracture zones) at a temperature between 180C and 300C. Big copper crystals have been recovered. So the question is how do you scale this chemistry to your stovetop, garage, or basement? Very slow titration of dissolved copper salt to release/redissolve the copper to grow a crystal? Or were you thinking of using some other process? Very slow cooling of molten copper? Electroforming? Vapor deposition? I think you could grow crystals with all of them. And for fun, you could throw some silver into the mix and make halfbreed crystals. Interesting question! I don't think it is easy to do, or you would see artifical crystals on the market. Kreigh From agesilaus at gmail.com Mon Apr 11 18:17:38 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Apr 11 18:17:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Morefield Mine In-Reply-To: <425B1D8B.CEF@Tomaszewski.net> References: <002f01c53e0a$63a5ea20$01fea8c0@Pteraphyte> <425B1D8B.CEF@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: I wonder what the reducing agent was, the matrix rock? Bryan On Apr 11, 2005 9:03 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > James A. Rollins wrote: > > > Has anyone grown copper crystals at home? What factors control the size of the crystals. How big can you grow them? > > > > James A. Rollins > > > > James, > > According to MinRec [v.23 n.2 p.26] the copper in the Keweenaw Peninsula > was deposited by saline and slightly alkaline fluid (buried seawater > percolating up porus fault and fracture zones) at a temperature between > 180C and 300C. Big copper crystals have been recovered. > > So the question is how do you scale this chemistry to your stovetop, > garage, or basement? Very slow titration of dissolved copper salt to > release/redissolve the copper to grow a crystal? > > Or were you thinking of using some other process? Very slow cooling of > molten copper? Electroforming? Vapor deposition? > > I think you could grow crystals with all of them. And for fun, you could > throw some silver into the mix and make halfbreed crystals. > > Interesting question! I don't think it is easy to do, or you would see > artifical crystals on the market. > > Kreigh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Apr 11 19:47:14 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Apr 11 19:44:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Morefield Mine References: <002f01c53e0a$63a5ea20$01fea8c0@Pteraphyte> <425B1D8B.CEF@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <425B35E7.55EC@Tomaszewski.net> Matrix was mostly basalt from the (failed) rift zone. The fluid source was probably seawater/brine. Kreigh J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > I wonder what the reducing agent was, the matrix rock? > > Bryan > > On Apr 11, 2005 9:03 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > James A. Rollins wrote: > > > > > Has anyone grown copper crystals at home? What factors control the size of the crystals. How big can you grow them? > > > > > > James A. Rollins > > > > > > > James, > > > > According to MinRec [v.23 n.2 p.26] the copper in the Keweenaw Peninsula > > was deposited by saline and slightly alkaline fluid (buried seawater > > percolating up porus fault and fracture zones) at a temperature between > > 180C and 300C. Big copper crystals have been recovered. > > > > So the question is how do you scale this chemistry to your stovetop, > > garage, or basement? Very slow titration of dissolved copper salt to > > release/redissolve the copper to grow a crystal? > > > > Or were you thinking of using some other process? Very slow cooling of > > molten copper? Electroforming? Vapor deposition? > > > > I think you could grow crystals with all of them. And for fun, you could > > throw some silver into the mix and make halfbreed crystals. > > > > Interesting question! I don't think it is easy to do, or you would see > > artifical crystals on the market. > > > > Kreigh From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Apr 12 01:56:52 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Apr 12 01:56:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Discovery Channel show on supervolcano In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Bill & all Saw that & I'm not sure about three things: a) WILL Yellowtone blow up in the near future? We had a similar situation in the German Eifel and that came to a stop too, eventually. b) If it blows, I think that we should look at the "worst case" scenario with "disaster mode" switched off and then add some. (BTW: "worst" translates as "sausage" in Dutch). c) Serious volcanologists have German or Russian accents. (Chow about zat?) I think that Hollywood-type movie makers and screenplay writers tend to over-estimate the resilience of the human race against these geological mass murderers. Good example: I watched CSI Miami last Sunday. A volcano island in the atlantic had slid into the ocean, causing a 300 ft tsunami racing towards Miami at almost Mach 1... Not only was Miami evacuated hours before the wave was to strike, but the CSI team and the bad guys just stayed. Then the wave struck, rising to 914 METERS upon hitting the shallow coastal waters. Still, lighthouses and the general skyline of Miami stayed well above water (weird, no?). Although it was clearly stated that ALL of Miami was evacuated (by the "Evacuation Fairy", no doubt), banks were still open for robbers and cops. "H" saved the people in the bank by shoving them into the vault that, miraculously, was built to withstand the pressure of almost 1000 m of water. The cameras outside the vault were obviously bought second hand from Jacques Cousteau since they too survived to inform our hero "H" that the waters had receded (within very short time). Fifteen minutes later, the wounded were picked up by undamaged ambulances and service cars and rushed over undamaged roads to undamaged hospitals IN MIAMI where doctors and nurses, returned by the "Evacuation Fairy", tended to their superficial wounds. The case was solved by "H" who noticed that the hurricane windows (facing the ocean) of the bank were broken, which is strange after being hit by a kilometer high wall of water travelling at just under Mach 1. Luckily, coastuard and homeland security had all their boats intact so they could be warned over the undamaged phone lines to apprehend the criminal at sea. I don't know how you guys do it in America, but if Antwerp was hit by just a 15 ft tsunami we would be kneedeep in serious sh... and life would be disrupted beyond belief. I know that CSI Miami is more fiction than fact but it serves to demonstrate that film makers tend to soften the impact of catastrophic events... The public hates situations where thee's no way out ;-))) Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens William Cordua Verzonden: maandag 11 april 2005 22:20 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Discovery Channel show on supervolcano Hi all, Last night the Discovery Channel aired a 3 hour program showing "what if" the Yellowstone area experienced a mega-eruption similar to those of the geologic past. Most of it was a fictionalized account with lots of special effects of the "worst case" scenario. It was followed by Tom Brokaw interviewing real geologists. Any one else catch this? If so, any thoughts? I thought it was overly alarmist, but fun if you took it in the "disaster movie" mode in which it is intended. And the geology looked right too. Since it was produced by BBC, most USGS geologist had British accents (How about that Peter?) It is to be rerun next Saturday. Check your local listings. Best wishes - Bill C. _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From agesilaus at gmail.com Tue Apr 12 06:39:22 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Apr 12 06:39:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Discovery Channel show on supervolcano In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: LOL, the nearest spot to Miami that's 914 meters high would be somewhere in northern Georgia, maybe 1500 km north. The highest spot in the whole state is not much more than 100 meters in elevation and that's on the Florida/Alabama border. Actually I think Miami is rather well shielded from a tsunami with the Bahamas to the east and Cuba/Hipanola to the south. And lots of shallow water in all directions. Bryan On Apr 12, 2005 4:56 AM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Hi Bill & all > > Saw that & I'm not sure about three things: > a) WILL Yellowtone blow up in the near future? We had a similar situation > in the German Eifel and that came to a stop too, eventually. > b) If it blows, I think that we should look at the "worst case" scenario > with "disaster mode" switched off and then add some. (BTW: "worst" > translates as "sausage" in Dutch). > c) Serious volcanologists have German or Russian accents. (Chow about zat?) > > I think that Hollywood-type movie makers and screenplay writers tend to > over-estimate the resilience of the human race against these geological > mass murderers. > Good example: I watched CSI Miami last Sunday. > > A volcano island in the atlantic had slid into the ocean, causing a 300 ft > tsunami racing towards Miami at almost Mach 1... > Not only was Miami evacuated hours before the wave was to strike, but the > CSI team and the bad guys just stayed. > Then the wave struck, rising to 914 METERS upon hitting the shallow coastal > waters. Still, lighthouses and the general skyline of Miami stayed well > above water (weird, no?). > Although it was clearly stated that ALL of Miami was evacuated (by the > "Evacuation Fairy", no doubt), banks were still open for robbers and cops. > "H" saved the people in the bank by shoving them into the vault that, > miraculously, was built to withstand the pressure of almost 1000 m of water. > The cameras outside the vault were obviously bought second hand from Jacques > Cousteau since they too survived to inform our hero "H" that the waters had > receded (within very short time). Fifteen minutes later, the wounded were > picked up by undamaged ambulances and service cars and rushed over undamaged > roads to undamaged hospitals IN MIAMI where doctors and nurses, returned by > the "Evacuation Fairy", tended to their superficial wounds. The case was > solved by "H" who noticed that the hurricane windows (facing the ocean) of > the bank were broken, which is strange after being hit by a kilometer high > wall of water travelling at just under Mach 1. Luckily, coastuard and > homeland security had all their boats intact so they could be warned over > the undamaged phone lines to apprehend the criminal at sea. > > I don't know how you guys do it in America, but if Antwerp was hit by just a > 15 ft tsunami we would be kneedeep in serious sh... and life would be > disrupted beyond belief. > I know that CSI Miami is more fiction than fact but it serves to demonstrate > that film makers tend to soften the impact of catastrophic events... The > public hates situations where thee's no way out ;-))) > > Cheers > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens William Cordua > Verzonden: maandag 11 april 2005 22:20 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Discovery Channel show on supervolcano > > Hi all, > > Last night the Discovery Channel aired a 3 hour program showing "what if" > the Yellowstone area experienced a mega-eruption similar to those of the > geologic past. Most of it was a fictionalized account with lots of special > effects of the "worst case" scenario. It was followed by Tom Brokaw > interviewing real geologists. Any one else catch this? If so, any thoughts? > I thought it was overly alarmist, but fun if you took it in the "disaster > movie" mode in which it is intended. And the geology looked right too. Since > it was produced by BBC, most USGS geologist had British accents (How about > that Peter?) It is to be rerun next Saturday. Check your local listings. > > Best wishes - Bill C. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Apr 12 07:50:07 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Apr 12 07:49:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Discovery Channel show on supervolcano In-Reply-To: Message-ID: 100 m, hm? I figured that out on my own lonesome self by just looking at my collection. The only mineral that I have from Florida is some skalenohhedral calcite XX and they are found in... tadaaaa (& drum roll) ... giant fossil clam shells. Good fluorescent too. Looking at the episode of CSI Miami, one could have guessed that Miami was on the shores of lake Titicaca. >Actually I think Miami is rather well shielded from a tsunami with >the Bahamas to the east and Cuba/Hipanola to the south. And lots of >shallow water in all directions. and our heroic redhead, David Caruso, and is tsunami-shattering one liners... ("let's see if mister Tsunami likes some water treading"). CSI New York is even better... They have a pistol shaped device that can analyze the chemical composition of a bullet by pointing it at the LIVING AND RUNNING AWAY rat that ate it, from 15 ft away. I tell you, those east coast cops are better than David Copperfield... Next series will be CSI Amityville and they'll be using Ouija-boards. I'm sure! Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens J Bryan Kramer Verzonden: dinsdag 12 april 2005 15:39 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Discovery Channel show on supervolcano LOL, the nearest spot to Miami that's 914 meters high would be somewhere in northern Georgia, maybe 1500 km north. The highest spot in the whole state is not much more than 100 meters in elevation and that's on the Florida/Alabama border. Actually I think Miami is rather well shielded from a tsunami with the Bahamas to the east and Cuba/Hipanola to the south. And lots of shallow water in all directions. Bryan On Apr 12, 2005 4:56 AM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Hi Bill & all > > Saw that & I'm not sure about three things: > a) WILL Yellowtone blow up in the near future? We had a similar situation > in the German Eifel and that came to a stop too, eventually. > b) If it blows, I think that we should look at the "worst case" scenario > with "disaster mode" switched off and then add some. (BTW: "worst" > translates as "sausage" in Dutch). > c) Serious volcanologists have German or Russian accents. (Chow about zat?) > > I think that Hollywood-type movie makers and screenplay writers tend to > over-estimate the resilience of the human race against these geological > mass murderers. > Good example: I watched CSI Miami last Sunday. > > A volcano island in the atlantic had slid into the ocean, causing a 300 ft > tsunami racing towards Miami at almost Mach 1... > Not only was Miami evacuated hours before the wave was to strike, but the > CSI team and the bad guys just stayed. > Then the wave struck, rising to 914 METERS upon hitting the shallow coastal > waters. Still, lighthouses and the general skyline of Miami stayed well > above water (weird, no?). > Although it was clearly stated that ALL of Miami was evacuated (by the > "Evacuation Fairy", no doubt), banks were still open for robbers and cops. > "H" saved the people in the bank by shoving them into the vault that, > miraculously, was built to withstand the pressure of almost 1000 m of water. > The cameras outside the vault were obviously bought second hand from Jacques > Cousteau since they too survived to inform our hero "H" that the waters had > receded (within very short time). Fifteen minutes later, the wounded were > picked up by undamaged ambulances and service cars and rushed over undamaged > roads to undamaged hospitals IN MIAMI where doctors and nurses, returned by > the "Evacuation Fairy", tended to their superficial wounds. The case was > solved by "H" who noticed that the hurricane windows (facing the ocean) of > the bank were broken, which is strange after being hit by a kilometer high > wall of water travelling at just under Mach 1. Luckily, coastuard and > homeland security had all their boats intact so they could be warned over > the undamaged phone lines to apprehend the criminal at sea. > > I don't know how you guys do it in America, but if Antwerp was hit by just a > 15 ft tsunami we would be kneedeep in serious sh... and life would be > disrupted beyond belief. > I know that CSI Miami is more fiction than fact but it serves to demonstrate > that film makers tend to soften the impact of catastrophic events... The > public hates situations where thee's no way out ;-))) > > Cheers > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens William Cordua > Verzonden: maandag 11 april 2005 22:20 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Discovery Channel show on supervolcano > > Hi all, > > Last night the Discovery Channel aired a 3 hour program showing "what if" > the Yellowstone area experienced a mega-eruption similar to those of the > geologic past. Most of it was a fictionalized account with lots of special > effects of the "worst case" scenario. It was followed by Tom Brokaw > interviewing real geologists. Any one else catch this? If so, any thoughts? > I thought it was overly alarmist, but fun if you took it in the "disaster > movie" mode in which it is intended. And the geology looked right too. Since > it was produced by BBC, most USGS geologist had British accents (How about > that Peter?) It is to be rerun next Saturday. Check your local listings. > > Best wishes - Bill C. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Paintricks at aol.com Tue Apr 12 08:02:14 2005 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Tue Apr 12 08:02:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fayetville Arkansas collecting info needed Please Message-ID: <13c.11180733.2f8d3cf6@aol.com> Hey guys, My wife and I are planning a trip to the Fayettvile areas and we were wondering what areas are good to collect in. I realize that the crystal belt is somewhat below this area so,... what other things might be available? We will be going North from East Texas West of Tyler. Thanks, Kevin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Tue Apr 12 08:10:49 2005 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Tue Apr 12 08:11:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] San Antonio Texas In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050411112257.025eae28@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <200504121510.j3CFAxvN002445@bubbleator.drizzle.com> I'm going to be travelling to San Antonio, TX, for a couple of days. Any interesting rock shops down there? I probably won't have any time for collecting...unless there is something nearby that a "look at the ground and pick it up" kind of collecting would work for. GcB From kadok at infowest.com Tue Apr 12 09:18:12 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Tue Apr 12 09:18:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Discovery Channel show on supervolcano In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050412161800.D0A1978F60@delivery.infowest.com> Gee, Axel -- Haven't you figured out yet that Hollywood (and TV shows) are made for *entertainment*, for *escape*??? You can't have the bad guys win, and you can't have big disasters kill the heroes! We have too much of that already going on in real life! LOL <:-}}} Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 1:57 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Discovery Channel show on supervolcano Hi Bill & all Saw that & I'm not sure about three things: a) WILL Yellowtone blow up in the near future? We had a similar situation in the German Eifel and that came to a stop too, eventually. b) If it blows, I think that we should look at the "worst case" scenario with "disaster mode" switched off and then add some. (BTW: "worst" translates as "sausage" in Dutch). c) Serious volcanologists have German or Russian accents. (Chow about zat?) I think that Hollywood-type movie makers and screenplay writers tend to over-estimate the resilience of the human race against these geological mass murderers. Good example: I watched CSI Miami last Sunday. A volcano island in the atlantic had slid into the ocean, causing a 300 ft tsunami racing towards Miami at almost Mach 1... Not only was Miami evacuated hours before the wave was to strike, but the CSI team and the bad guys just stayed. Then the wave struck, rising to 914 METERS upon hitting the shallow coastal waters. Still, lighthouses and the general skyline of Miami stayed well above water (weird, no?). Although it was clearly stated that ALL of Miami was evacuated (by the "Evacuation Fairy", no doubt), banks were still open for robbers and cops. "H" saved the people in the bank by shoving them into the vault that, miraculously, was built to withstand the pressure of almost 1000 m of water. The cameras outside the vault were obviously bought second hand from Jacques Cousteau since they too survived to inform our hero "H" that the waters had receded (within very short time). Fifteen minutes later, the wounded were picked up by undamaged ambulances and service cars and rushed over undamaged roads to undamaged hospitals IN MIAMI where doctors and nurses, returned by the "Evacuation Fairy", tended to their superficial wounds. The case was solved by "H" who noticed that the hurricane windows (facing the ocean) of the bank were broken, which is strange after being hit by a kilometer high wall of water travelling at just under Mach 1. Luckily, coastuard and homeland security had all their boats intact so they could be warned over the undamaged phone lines to apprehend the criminal at sea. I don't know how you guys do it in America, but if Antwerp was hit by just a 15 ft tsunami we would be kneedeep in serious sh... and life would be disrupted beyond belief. I know that CSI Miami is more fiction than fact but it serves to demonstrate that film makers tend to soften the impact of catastrophic events... The public hates situations where thee's no way out ;-))) Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens William Cordua Verzonden: maandag 11 april 2005 22:20 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Discovery Channel show on supervolcano Hi all, Last night the Discovery Channel aired a 3 hour program showing "what if" the Yellowstone area experienced a mega-eruption similar to those of the geologic past. Most of it was a fictionalized account with lots of special effects of the "worst case" scenario. It was followed by Tom Brokaw interviewing real geologists. Any one else catch this? If so, any thoughts? I thought it was overly alarmist, but fun if you took it in the "disaster movie" mode in which it is intended. And the geology looked right too. Since it was produced by BBC, most USGS geologist had British accents (How about that Peter?) It is to be rerun next Saturday. Check your local listings. Best wishes - Bill C. _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Apr 12 09:36:12 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Apr 12 09:35:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Discovery Channel show on supervolcano In-Reply-To: <20050412161800.D0A1978F60@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: Hoi Margaret, yeah, I got it figured out ;-))) >for *escape*??? I'm afraid that Yellowstone is more of a *delete* than an *escape* for us (LOL) Speaking of *delete*: the Antwerp University has a new superdepuper ultradeluxe power computer that is so incredibly powerful that if you hit the delete button, the university disappears. I heard it on TV so it must be true ;-))) Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm Verzonden: dinsdag 12 april 2005 18:18 Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Discovery Channel show on supervolcano Gee, Axel -- Haven't you figured out yet that Hollywood (and TV shows) are made for *entertainment*, for *escape*??? You can't have the bad guys win, and you can't have big disasters kill the heroes! We have too much of that already going on in real life! LOL <:-}}} Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 1:57 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Discovery Channel show on supervolcano Hi Bill & all Saw that & I'm not sure about three things: a) WILL Yellowtone blow up in the near future? We had a similar situation in the German Eifel and that came to a stop too, eventually. b) If it blows, I think that we should look at the "worst case" scenario with "disaster mode" switched off and then add some. (BTW: "worst" translates as "sausage" in Dutch). c) Serious volcanologists have German or Russian accents. (Chow about zat?) I think that Hollywood-type movie makers and screenplay writers tend to over-estimate the resilience of the human race against these geological mass murderers. Good example: I watched CSI Miami last Sunday. A volcano island in the atlantic had slid into the ocean, causing a 300 ft tsunami racing towards Miami at almost Mach 1... Not only was Miami evacuated hours before the wave was to strike, but the CSI team and the bad guys just stayed. Then the wave struck, rising to 914 METERS upon hitting the shallow coastal waters. Still, lighthouses and the general skyline of Miami stayed well above water (weird, no?). Although it was clearly stated that ALL of Miami was evacuated (by the "Evacuation Fairy", no doubt), banks were still open for robbers and cops. "H" saved the people in the bank by shoving them into the vault that, miraculously, was built to withstand the pressure of almost 1000 m of water. The cameras outside the vault were obviously bought second hand from Jacques Cousteau since they too survived to inform our hero "H" that the waters had receded (within very short time). Fifteen minutes later, the wounded were picked up by undamaged ambulances and service cars and rushed over undamaged roads to undamaged hospitals IN MIAMI where doctors and nurses, returned by the "Evacuation Fairy", tended to their superficial wounds. The case was solved by "H" who noticed that the hurricane windows (facing the ocean) of the bank were broken, which is strange after being hit by a kilometer high wall of water travelling at just under Mach 1. Luckily, coastuard and homeland security had all their boats intact so they could be warned over the undamaged phone lines to apprehend the criminal at sea. I don't know how you guys do it in America, but if Antwerp was hit by just a 15 ft tsunami we would be kneedeep in serious sh... and life would be disrupted beyond belief. I know that CSI Miami is more fiction than fact but it serves to demonstrate that film makers tend to soften the impact of catastrophic events... The public hates situations where thee's no way out ;-))) Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens William Cordua Verzonden: maandag 11 april 2005 22:20 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Discovery Channel show on supervolcano Hi all, Last night the Discovery Channel aired a 3 hour program showing "what if" the Yellowstone area experienced a mega-eruption similar to those of the geologic past. Most of it was a fictionalized account with lots of special effects of the "worst case" scenario. It was followed by Tom Brokaw interviewing real geologists. Any one else catch this? If so, any thoughts? I thought it was overly alarmist, but fun if you took it in the "disaster movie" mode in which it is intended. And the geology looked right too. Since it was produced by BBC, most USGS geologist had British accents (How about that Peter?) It is to be rerun next Saturday. Check your local listings. Best wishes - Bill C. _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From newryqs at rochester.rr.com Tue Apr 12 10:25:27 2005 From: newryqs at rochester.rr.com (Van) Date: Tue Apr 12 10:25:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Austrian Help needed References: Message-ID: <005001c53f84$9e474130$6401a8c0@nathanqa8gl7gx> Have finally tracked an image down of Freiherr Alois Josef Xaver von Lederer (May 20, 1773 - December 20, 1842). There is a book with engravings of famous people at the Austrian National Library, but may be at several other of the large Austrian libraries. A lithograph or engraving of von Lederer was made by Leopold Fischer in 1839. The Austrian National Library was very kind, but said for just under $100 (the sum of three different fees), I could get a copy. As this is prohibitively expensive, I'm hoping that the book isn't terribly rare and that someone would be willing to search out the book and take a digital photograph or make a photocopy. I'd trade a mineral. Von Lederer was a diplomat and part of a large family of diplomats, several of whom were assigned in the USA. The book of portraits may be not a book at all and it may have been a print for a wall. If that's the case, there might be a picture at the Austrian State Department. My interest in von Lederer was that he visited Mount Mica in 1827 with a newly arrived Russian diplomat, Paul von Krudener, who couldn't stand how boring American society was. When von Lederer said he was going on a trip, Paul von Kruedener jumped at the chance to "get away". BTW there is a new book (2000) about von Kruedener in the Austrian Civil War and I'd like a photo of him as well. Any takers? Best Regards, Van From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 12 11:51:05 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Tue Apr 12 11:51:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Discovery Channel show on supervolcano References: <009001c53ef2$94746170$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <000d01c53f90$9567b750$78f1edc1@mpc1> > My wife explained the rationale of why several of the geologists had > British accents, but it is way too convoluted for my brain! Don't tell, let me guess ... got it! They were Brits? Mick From c6lh12lo6 at worldnet.att.net Tue Apr 12 12:05:45 2005 From: c6lh12lo6 at worldnet.att.net (Jennifer Parat) Date: Tue Apr 12 12:08:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Growing Copper Geodes Message-ID: <001d01c53f92$a1e2d620$21e6490c@jenscomputer> Hello. I am new to post on this list. I've been reading quietly the past few months. I study geology and feel many here will not care for my naive ignorance. Mistakenly, I read in the Morefield Mine emails about growing copper geodes. After another glimpse I noticed it was growing copper crystals. It reminded me of a good activity you can do at home with children; growing copper geodes. Ingredients Copper Sulfate Clean egg shell half or 1 clean walnut shell half 1/2 cup of hot water 1 mug 1. Boil water in mug... (microwave is best when working with children) 2. Pour a little bit of copper sulfate into the boiling water. Stir until dissolved. 3. Continue to add copper sulfate to the boiling water until solution becomes saturated. 4. Pour the copper sulfate solution into the egg shell half. 5. Wait a couple of days and crystals will form. Much faster than real life. Jennifer P.S. Attn: Rockhounds Please have respect for younger generations like myself. I have been to many of your sites in the United States. What has happened to the land is an embarrassment. Thank you. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dmschmidt at sprint.ca Tue Apr 12 12:25:03 2005 From: dmschmidt at sprint.ca (michael) Date: Tue Apr 12 12:26:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Growing Copper Geodes References: <001d01c53f92$a1e2d620$21e6490c@jenscomputer> Message-ID: <081801c53f95$5428e390$6702a8c0@heathercomp> there is much safer material you could grow crystals with. copper sulphate is quite toxic...not sure whether you are aware or not. not the most ideal thing for young chindren to be playing with..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jennifer Parat" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 1:05 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Growing Copper Geodes Hello. I am new to post on this list. I've been reading quietly the past few months. I study geology and feel many here will not care for my naive ignorance. Mistakenly, I read in the Morefield Mine emails about growing copper geodes. After another glimpse I noticed it was growing copper crystals. It reminded me of a good activity you can do at home with children; growing copper geodes. Ingredients Copper Sulfate Clean egg shell half or 1 clean walnut shell half 1/2 cup of hot water 1 mug 1. Boil water in mug... (microwave is best when working with children) 2. Pour a little bit of copper sulfate into the boiling water. Stir until dissolved. 3. Continue to add copper sulfate to the boiling water until solution becomes saturated. 4. Pour the copper sulfate solution into the egg shell half. 5. Wait a couple of days and crystals will form. Much faster than real life. Jennifer P.S. Attn: Rockhounds Please have respect for younger generations like myself. I have been to many of your sites in the United States. What has happened to the land is an embarrassment. Thank you. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From agesilaus at gmail.com Tue Apr 12 12:31:00 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Apr 12 12:31:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Growing Copper Geodes In-Reply-To: <001d01c53f92$a1e2d620$21e6490c@jenscomputer> References: <001d01c53f92$a1e2d620$21e6490c@jenscomputer> Message-ID: That an interesting project for the kids Jennifer. If you had been on this list for awhile you'd know that we often discuss what to do for younger rock-hounds often called rock-pups. And I for one have plenty to learn from the real experts here on the list so don't ever fear to post a comment. No one will ever treat you with anything other than respect on this list. As for your last comment, I assume that you are not from the United States. While there is plenty of work to be done on the environment here we are spending huge amounts of money and making major efforts to clean up problems. We have more forests here now than they did in the 1700's, the air and water are cleaner than they have been for a hundred years or more. And mine site recovery goes on at great expense. I don't think that parts of Europe can say the same, do you? Bryan On Apr 12, 2005 3:05 PM, Jennifer Parat wrote: > > > Hello. > > I am new to post on this list. I've been reading quietly the past few months. I study geology and feel many here will not care for my naive ignorance. > > Mistakenly, I read in the Morefield Mine emails about growing copper geodes. After another glimpse I noticed it was growing copper crystals. It reminded me of a good activity you can do at home with children; growing copper geodes. > > Ingredients > > Copper Sulfate > Clean egg shell half or 1 clean walnut shell half > 1/2 cup of hot water > 1 mug > > 1. Boil water in mug... (microwave is best when working with children) > 2. Pour a little bit of copper sulfate into the boiling water. Stir until dissolved. > 3. Continue to add copper sulfate to the boiling water until solution becomes saturated. > 4. Pour the copper sulfate solution into the egg shell half. > 5. Wait a couple of days and crystals will form. > > Much faster than real life. > > Jennifer > > P.S. > > Attn: Rockhounds > > Please have respect for younger generations like myself. I have been to many of your sites in the United States. What has happened to the land is an embarrassment. Thank you. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From agesilaus at gmail.com Tue Apr 12 12:43:27 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Apr 12 12:43:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Growing Copper Geodes In-Reply-To: <081801c53f95$5428e390$6702a8c0@heathercomp> References: <001d01c53f92$a1e2d620$21e6490c@jenscomputer> <081801c53f95$5428e390$6702a8c0@heathercomp> Message-ID: Copper Sulfate is not very toxic, it has an LD50 of 300 mg/kg which would translate to 150 grams for a 50 kg adult. It is only listed as an irritant with a health hazard rating of 2 (on a 4 scale). Occupational exposure might be a problem but occasional edposure isn't IMHO. And just what other copper salt would you use that is less toxic? Bryan On Apr 12, 2005 3:25 PM, michael wrote: > there is much safer material you could grow crystals with. copper sulphate > is quite toxic...not sure whether you are aware or not. > not the most ideal thing for young chindren to be playing with..... > ----- Original Message ----- From rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov Tue Apr 12 13:05:11 2005 From: rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov (Richard Trapp) Date: Tue Apr 12 13:05:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Growing Copper Geodes In-Reply-To: References: <001d01c53f92$a1e2d620$21e6490c@jenscomputer> Message-ID: <425C29F7.7040605@azgs.az.gov> Say, Brian, could you let us know the source for your statement that there are more forests in the U.S. now than in the 1700's and that the air and water is cleaner than they have been for a hundred years or more? I'd also be curious to know if you have any figures on that mine site recovery at great expense statement. Like maybe how many sites were actually rehabilitated in any given year in the recent past? or maybe how many sites are in need of rehabilitation? I live in Arizona and there are tens of thousands of mine sites here that have not been rehabilitated and there doesn't seem to be any money to rehabilitate these sites either. Now from the point of view of a mineral collector that's not necessarily a bad situation, but I would not be able to say that mine recovery is going on at great expense in Arizona. As a matter of fact, the only mine recovery that is going on is at relatively new mines owned by large corporations that have been snagged by relatively recent environmental regulations that require a mine to be rehabilitated when it is abandoned, kind of like "Hey, clean up your mess after you're done". I can think of exactly one mine in Arizona that is currently being rehabilitated and that effort is not really aimed at filling in the large open pit but rather at "flattening out" the immense leach pile that was left over from processing the ore. It is true that the buildings on the mine site are being taken down, but actually they are mostly being disassembled for reuse elsewhere and sold for scrap. They are trying to sell the smelter to China for disassembly and reassembly in China. They are allowing the underground to flood and the open pit and tailing piles are just going to stay there basically. Mining has been going on in this state for well over 150 years, not counting the Spaniards who started mining here about three hundred years ago. Unfortunately, the vast majority of mine sites here predate any kind of environmental regulations and are in about the same shape now as they were when the owners quit developing them. So guess where the money would have to come from to clean them up? Hint: not the long gone owners. And, funny thing, ordinary people don't seem to want to pay to have somebody else's mess cleaned up. This is causing somewhat of a problem here because the state and federal government own quite a bit of land in Arizona, especially the mountainous land on the outskirts of the urban areas. The only land that is available in these areas is often land that passed into private hands through mining claims. The mines themselves have not been reclaimed in any sense and people are trying to put houses over areas that have been heavily mined. People come into our office all the time and want to know where the tunnels are on their property so they don't put their houses on top of the tunnels. We have to explain to them that there was no requirement for these old mines to file any kinds of surveys or plans and that the situation is basically "caveat emptor". So, anyway, I don't see much happening here with regard to mine site recovery and I'm wondering where all this activity might be going on?? J Bryan Kramer wrote: >That an interesting project for the kids Jennifer. If you had been on >this list for awhile you'd know that we often discuss what to do for >younger rock-hounds often called rock-pups. And I for one have plenty >to learn from the real experts here on the list so don't ever fear to >post a comment. No one will ever treat you with anything other than >respect on this list. > >As for your last comment, I assume that you are not from the United >States. While there is plenty of work to be done on the environment >here we are spending huge amounts of money and making major efforts to >clean up problems. We have more forests here now than they did in the >1700's, the air and water are cleaner than they have been for a >hundred years or more. And mine site recovery goes on at great >expense. > >I don't think that parts of Europe can say the same, do you? > >Bryan > > > >On Apr 12, 2005 3:05 PM, Jennifer Parat wrote: > > >>Hello. >> >>I am new to post on this list. I've been reading quietly the past few months. I study geology and feel many here will not care for my naive ignorance. >> >>Mistakenly, I read in the Morefield Mine emails about growing copper geodes. After another glimpse I noticed it was growing copper crystals. It reminded me of a good activity you can do at home with children; growing copper geodes. >> >>Ingredients >> >>Copper Sulfate >>Clean egg shell half or 1 clean walnut shell half >>1/2 cup of hot water >>1 mug >> >>1. Boil water in mug... (microwave is best when working with children) >>2. Pour a little bit of copper sulfate into the boiling water. Stir until dissolved. >>3. Continue to add copper sulfate to the boiling water until solution becomes saturated. >>4. Pour the copper sulfate solution into the egg shell half. >>5. Wait a couple of days and crystals will form. >> >>Much faster than real life. >> >>Jennifer >> >>P.S. >> >>Attn: Rockhounds >> >>Please have respect for younger generations like myself. I have been to many of your sites in the United States. What has happened to the land is an embarrassment. Thank you. >> >>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >>--- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > -- Rick Trapp Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From roughrock at gmail.com Tue Apr 12 13:19:24 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Tue Apr 12 13:19:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Growing Copper Geodes In-Reply-To: References: <001d01c53f92$a1e2d620$21e6490c@jenscomputer> Message-ID: On Apr 12, 2005 12:31 PM, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > While there is plenty of work to be done on the environment > here we are spending huge amounts of money and making major efforts to > clean up problems. We have more forests here now than they did in the > 1700's, the air and water are cleaner than they have been for a > hundred years or more. And mine site recovery goes on at great > expense. > In the 1700's most of the land west of the Mississippi was primitive. I find it hard to believe there are more forest in California than there was in 1848. There may be more tree farms in the U. S., but a farm is not a forest. I've seen tree farms in the Deep South; Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama, that looked like rows of Christmas trees waiting to be sold. In those states I saw an occasional copse but very few forest. Grant Johnston, Chico, CA From morningstar at att.net Tue Apr 12 13:20:21 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Tue Apr 12 13:20:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Growing Copper Geodes Message-ID: <041220052020.25279.425C2D82000BBC1C000062BF21602810609D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Hi, > I am new to post on this list. I've been reading quietly the past few months. I > study geology and feel many here will not care for my naive ignorance. Don't feel that way. There are many levels of people here, from Ph.D. to high school level. That is what makes this list so interesting; one minute we are talking about different kinds of agate and the next minute we are talking about crystal structure. It's all good stuff. > Please have respect for younger generations like myself. I think, before we engage in an international flame war, that we should agree ALL countries need to take care of the environment. Any place you find humanity, you find destruction and waste. Where do you go to school? Don From dri.anna at verizon.net Tue Apr 12 13:40:55 2005 From: dri.anna at verizon.net (Dri-Anna) Date: Tue Apr 12 13:40:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Discovery Channel show on supervolcano References: <148.4229667b.2f8c36a3@aol.com> Message-ID: <01af01c53f9f$ed65d130$6401a8c0@Dri> And, just before the Supervolcano show was the program about the Cascadia Fault. Dri-Anna Davis WA - USA http://www.twospirit.net/ http://www.twospirit.net/MyHobbyAfricanVioletCollectionP1.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 13:22 Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Discovery Channel show on supervolcano > > Whatever the scientific merits, it was a great show. I just hope that > Las > Vegas, NM is not in any future ash path. > > > > In a message dated 4/11/2005 2:20:26 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, > william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu writes: > > Hi all, > > Last night the Discovery Channel aired a 3 hour program showing "what if" > the Yellowstone area experienced a mega-eruption similar to those of the > geologic past. Most of it was a fictionalized account with lots of > special > effects of the "worst case" scenario. It was followed by Tom Brokaw > interviewing real geologists. Any one else catch this? If so, any > thoughts? > I thought it was overly alarmist, but fun if you took it in the "disaster > movie" mode in which it is intended. And the geology looked right too. > Since > it was produced by BBC, most USGS geologist had British accents (How > about > that Peter?) It is to be rerun next Saturday. Check your local listings. > > Best wishes - Bill C. > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From dmschmidt at sprint.ca Tue Apr 12 13:45:28 2005 From: dmschmidt at sprint.ca (michael) Date: Tue Apr 12 13:46:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Growing Copper Geodes References: <001d01c53f92$a1e2d620$21e6490c@jenscomputer> <081801c53f95$5428e390$6702a8c0@heathercomp> Message-ID: <08c601c53fa0$8fe82480$6702a8c0@heathercomp> I thought the stuff was just not all that safe in an unventilated area..... as well, what about disposal of the material? I know it is very toxic to aquatic organisms..... I just wouldn't want my kids growing crystals out of that stuff unless they were very well supervised. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 1:43 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Growing Copper Geodes > Copper Sulfate is not very toxic, it has an LD50 of 300 mg/kg which > would translate to 150 grams for a 50 kg adult. It is only listed as > an irritant with a health hazard rating of 2 (on a 4 scale). > > Occupational exposure might be a problem but occasional edposure isn't > IMHO. > > And just what other copper salt would you use that is less toxic? > > Bryan > > On Apr 12, 2005 3:25 PM, michael wrote: >> there is much safer material you could grow crystals with. copper >> sulphate >> is quite toxic...not sure whether you are aware or not. >> not the most ideal thing for young chindren to be playing with..... >> ----- Original Message ----- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From roughrock at gmail.com Tue Apr 12 13:53:37 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Tue Apr 12 13:53:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] San Antonio Texas In-Reply-To: <200504121510.j3CFAxvN002445@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050411112257.025eae28@incoming.verizon.net> <200504121510.j3CFAxvN002445@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: On Apr 12, 2005 8:10 AM, Gary Brown wrote: > I'm going to be travelling to San Antonio, TX, for a couple of days. Any > interesting rock shops down there? I probably won't have any time for > collecting... > There's a rockshop on the north side of I-10 about 15 or 20 miles west of downtown. It is near Boerne, pronounced Burney, and might be the Alamo Rockshop. It is about a 20 minute drive from downtown, except durring rush hour, then it is 3 hours :-} Grant From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Apr 12 14:33:19 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Apr 12 14:33:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Growing Copper Geodes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Copper sulfate was used as an emetic some time ago (probably early 20th century and befo. So, swallowing lethal doses would be hard require a sedative to calm the stomach. Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens J Bryan Kramer Verzonden: dinsdag 12 april 2005 21:43 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Growing Copper Geodes Copper Sulfate is not very toxic, it has an LD50 of 300 mg/kg which would translate to 150 grams for a 50 kg adult. It is only listed as an irritant with a health hazard rating of 2 (on a 4 scale). Occupational exposure might be a problem but occasional edposure isn't IMHO. And just what other copper salt would you use that is less toxic? Bryan On Apr 12, 2005 3:25 PM, michael wrote: > there is much safer material you could grow crystals with. copper sulphate > is quite toxic...not sure whether you are aware or not. > not the most ideal thing for young chindren to be playing with..... > ----- Original Message ----- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Apr 12 14:50:13 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Apr 12 14:50:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Discovery Channel show on supervolcano Message-ID: <041220052150.11047.425C4295000829E400002B27216037596407059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Axel, thanks for describing the CSI Miami Tsunami (hey, a good rhythym to that!) show--if you hadn't written about this, I would not have known about it (guess I just don't watch that stuff). FYI to all, here's a note with a few website links about "supervolcano" matters, that I posted to some local educators. ----Pete To those who may be interested, as a postscript to the "Supervolcano" mega-volcano-docudrama and accompanying volcano and earthquake documentaries that were shown on the Discovery Channel Sunday, in addition to the "FAQ's" about supervolcanoes and Yellowstone on the USGS website at http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/yvo/2005/docudrama.html the "About Geology" website has some good background material about volcanoes and calderas, including a list of The World's Largest Calderas - The Biggest of the Supervolcanoes" It's at, http://geology.about.com/library/bl/blbigcalderas.htm?nl=1 you can look to see where they are and if your favorite caldera made the "biggest" list. This page also has a link to a much longer and more comprehensive list of calderas worldwide, some 319 of them, from the Cambridge Volcanology Group calderas database. Not all of these calderas (nor those in the "short list") are active; some listed are 10's of millions of years old, such as several from Colorado that are on the list--including the La Garita caldera, known as the biggest in the state, 75 x 35 km, but which at 27.8 million years old, is considered quite extinct. Other volcano material on "About Geology" is at, http://geology.about.com/od/nutshells/a/aa_nutsvolcano.htm?nl=1 ****************************************** Peter J. Modreski U.S. Geological Survey, Denver, Colorado Central Region Office of Communications Events and Community Relations - Geologic Outreach & Education tel. 303-202-4766, fax 303-202-4767 email pmodreski@usgs.gov SCIENCE FOR A CHANGING WORLD http://www.usgs.gov http://ask.usgs.gov ****************************************** --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Apr 12 14:57:38 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Apr 12 14:57:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Growing Copper Geodes Message-ID: <041220052157.17498.425C4451000AB68F0000445A216037596407059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Bryan, assuming you looked up that LD50 dose of 300 mg/kg correctly, you missed a "0" in the math, that would translate to 15 grams for a 50 kg adult, not 150 grams. That's about 1/2 ounce. I know that copper sulfate is somewhat toxic, but only if someone intentionally swallowed some--getting a trace of the powder in your mouth, probably wouldn't be enough to cause harm. I would think that if used under supervision, it would be OK for kids to work with it. They would have to be cautioned about the harmful properties of this or any other chemical. Pete Modreski -------------- Original message from J Bryan Kramer : -------------- > Copper Sulfate is not very toxic, it has an LD50 of 300 mg/kg which > would translate to 150 grams for a 50 kg adult. It is only listed as > an irritant with a health hazard rating of 2 (on a 4 scale). > > Occupational exposure might be a problem but occasional edposure isn't IMHO. > > And just what other copper salt would you use that is less toxic? > > Bryan > > On Apr 12, 2005 3:25 PM, michael wrote: > > there is much safer material you could grow crystals with. copper sulphate > > is quite toxic...not sure whether you are aware or not. > > not the most ideal thing for young chindren to be playing with..... > > ----- Original Message ----- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From folmstead at rcn.com Tue Apr 12 16:03:07 2005 From: folmstead at rcn.com (Frederick Olmstead) Date: Tue Apr 12 16:03:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fayetville Arkansas collecting info needed Please In-Reply-To: <13c.11180733.2f8d3cf6@aol.com> References: <13c.11180733.2f8d3cf6@aol.com> Message-ID: <425C53AB.9060109@rcn.com> HI FYI if you are interested.... GMO __..--..__ [paintricks@aol.com] Paintricks@aol.com wrote: >Hey guys, > My wife and I are planning a trip to the Fayettvile areas and we were >wondering what areas are good to collect in. I realize that the crystal belt is >somewhat below this area so,... what other things might be available? We >will be going North from East Texas West of Tyler. > Thanks, > Kevin > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Tue Apr 12 18:35:16 2005 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Tue Apr 12 18:35:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Axel References: Message-ID: <007101c53fc9$0bb9f5c0$6501a8c0@GlennWimpee> ROTFLMAOAAOTE Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 11:36 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Discovery Channel show on supervolcano > Hoi Margaret, > > yeah, I got it figured out ;-))) > >>for *escape*??? > > I'm afraid that Yellowstone is more of a *delete* than an *escape* for us > (LOL) > > Speaking of *delete*: the Antwerp University has a new superdepuper > ultradeluxe power computer that is so incredibly powerful that if you hit > the delete button, the university disappears. I heard it on TV so it must > be > true ;-))) > > Axel > From TomE61 at aol.com Tue Apr 12 18:41:33 2005 From: TomE61 at aol.com (TomE61@aol.com) Date: Tue Apr 12 18:41:39 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: San Antonio, Texas Message-ID: <524F8012.02BF90CB.00054D98@aol.com> Hey Gary, I just got back from San Antonio Texas about two weeks ago and I posted some information back then. You can check back if you'd like, but I'll repeat as much as I can from memory here (I'm in Buenos Aires, Argentina, as we speak, so don't have really fast internet access). Go see the Alamo, for all of ten minutes, and at least say that yo?'ve been there. But all around the grounds are thousands of specimens to collect, jasper, flint, agate, etc. And they don't seem to mind. Just ask the ranger if its ok and he will more than likely say yes. The Alamo Rock Shop that Grant referred to is indeed off of I-10, not TOO far from downtown, but unless you are passing by or in the area, I would strongly discourage you from going there. They have some nice stuff as well as an outdoor picking area (selling by pound) but the thing that turned me off the most was the exorbitant and extraordinary prices, for even simple things. Forget about purchasing Texas topaz or anything worthwhile. Even rose quartz was $10 a pound which I find to be pushing capitalism and the profit motive to the ultimate limit. I don't often disparage commercial businesses, unless they have no integrity, but in this case, to advise you to go there and spend too much money, would have gone against my inate sense of fair play. On the other hand, there are numerous opportunities to collect outside of San Antonio. If you take a short trip to Bandera (Bandera County), along Route 16, the cowboy capital of the world, any road cut along that road will yield exciting specimens of agate, jasper, flint, etc. And the locals are very knowledgeable and the police encourage you to stop and collect. To give you an example, we stayed at a ranch in Bandera and I shipped back 35 pounds (that's right) of jasper, flint, etc. because I couldn't carry it on the plane. Northeast of Bandera (along highway 173, but check the map) for about 4 miles is a very prolific area to collect fossils, if you like them. I personally don't. But I saw some awesome specimens of clams, mussels and other shellfish that were not only well preserved, but didn't cost a dime to collect. This may sound hard to believe, and somewhat counterintuitive, but even the McDonalds and other fast food places, all along the highways, have landscapings that were accomplished using local Texas specimens. The McDonald's in Blanco, right off the main highway, yielded about 5 pounds alone. I DID ask the manager if she minded and she said go ahead, take what you want. Mason County, which is north of San Antonio, by about 80 miles, has dozens of ranches that allow you to seek and collect, for a fee, Texas blue topaz, quartz, celestite, etc. but its a haul from San Antonio, and even though I was there for a week, I didn't think it was worth the drive and the effort. Also, I didn't have any tools with me since TSA believes geological tools are dangerous (and I'm not inclined to disagree). You might also benefit from contacting any of the clubs in San Antonio or Austin; they gave me some good advice; there was an excellent rock & mineral show back in earlier April that used the proceeds for kids scholarships and I'd like to think that I financed quite a few of those. Anyway, good luck. San Antonio is a great place. E-mail me outside the commmunity if you need more details for have any questions. Regards, Tom Russell From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Tue Apr 12 18:55:33 2005 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Tue Apr 12 18:55:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Growing Copper Geodes References: <001d01c53f92$a1e2d620$21e6490c@jenscomputer> <425C29F7.7040605@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: <008401c53fcb$e129a140$6501a8c0@GlennWimpee> I'm not sure about everywhere, but Floida has some pretty well restored sites after big companies got done...some real nice young forests and wetlands...plus some true effort at salvaging and returning a lot of the Everglades to a more natural situation. Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Trapp" To: "J Bryan Kramer" ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 3:05 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Growing Copper Geodes > Say, Brian, could you let us know the source for your statement that there > are more forests in the U.S. now than in the 1700's and that the air and > water is cleaner than they have been for a hundred years or more? > > I'd also be curious to know if you have any figures on that mine site > recovery at great expense statement. Like maybe how many sites were > actually rehabilitated in any given year in the recent past? or maybe how > many sites are in need of rehabilitation? > > I live in Arizona and there are tens of thousands of mine sites here that > have not been rehabilitated and there doesn't seem to be any money to > rehabilitate these sites either. Now from the point of view of a mineral > collector that's not necessarily a bad situation, but I would not be able > to say that mine recovery is going on at great expense in Arizona. As a > matter of fact, the only mine recovery that is going on is at relatively > new mines owned by large corporations that have been snagged by relatively > recent environmental regulations that require a mine to be rehabilitated > when it is abandoned, kind of like "Hey, clean up your mess after you're > done". I can think of exactly one mine in Arizona that is currently being > rehabilitated and that effort is not really aimed at filling in the large > open pit but rather at "flattening out" the immense leach pile that was > left over from processing the ore. It is true that the buildings on the > mine site are being taken down, but actually they are mostly being > disassembled for reuse elsewhere and sold for scrap. They are trying to > sell the smelter to China for disassembly and reassembly in China. They > are allowing the underground to flood and the open pit and tailing piles > are just going to stay there basically. > > Mining has been going on in this state for well over 150 years, not > counting the Spaniards who started mining here about three hundred years > ago. Unfortunately, the vast majority of mine sites here predate any kind > of environmental regulations and are in about the same shape now as they > were when the owners quit developing them. So guess where the money would > have to come from to clean them up? Hint: not the long gone owners. And, > funny thing, ordinary people don't seem to want to pay to have somebody > else's mess cleaned up. > > This is causing somewhat of a problem here because the state and federal > government own quite a bit of land in Arizona, especially the mountainous > land on the outskirts of the urban areas. The only land that is available > in these areas is often land that passed into private hands through mining > claims. The mines themselves have not been reclaimed in any sense and > people are trying to put houses over areas that have been heavily mined. > People come into our office all the time and want to know where the > tunnels are on their property so they don't put their houses on top of the > tunnels. We have to explain to them that there was no requirement for > these old mines to file any kinds of surveys or plans and that the > situation is basically "caveat emptor". > > So, anyway, I don't see much happening here with regard to mine site > recovery and I'm wondering where all this activity might be going on?? > > > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > >>That an interesting project for the kids Jennifer. If you had been on >>this list for awhile you'd know that we often discuss what to do for >>younger rock-hounds often called rock-pups. And I for one have plenty >>to learn from the real experts here on the list so don't ever fear to >>post a comment. No one will ever treat you with anything other than >>respect on this list. >> >>As for your last comment, I assume that you are not from the United >>States. While there is plenty of work to be done on the environment >>here we are spending huge amounts of money and making major efforts to >>clean up problems. We have more forests here now than they did in the >>1700's, the air and water are cleaner than they have been for a >>hundred years or more. And mine site recovery goes on at great >>expense. >> >>I don't think that parts of Europe can say the same, do you? >> >>Bryan >> >> >> >>On Apr 12, 2005 3:05 PM, Jennifer Parat >>wrote: >> >>>Hello. >>> >>>I am new to post on this list. I've been reading quietly the past few >>>months. I study geology and feel many here will not care for my naive >>>ignorance. >>> >>>Mistakenly, I read in the Morefield Mine emails about growing copper >>>geodes. After another glimpse I noticed it was growing copper crystals. >>>It reminded me of a good activity you can do at home with children; >>>growing copper geodes. >>> >>>Ingredients >>> >>>Copper Sulfate >>>Clean egg shell half or 1 clean walnut shell half >>>1/2 cup of hot water >>>1 mug >>> >>>1. Boil water in mug... (microwave is best when working with children) >>>2. Pour a little bit of copper sulfate into the boiling water. Stir until >>>dissolved. >>>3. Continue to add copper sulfate to the boiling water until solution >>>becomes saturated. >>>4. Pour the copper sulfate solution into the egg shell half. >>>5. Wait a couple of days and crystals will form. >>> >>>Much faster than real life. >>> >>>Jennifer >>> >>>P.S. >>> >>>Attn: Rockhounds >>> >>>Please have respect for younger generations like myself. I have been to >>>many of your sites in the United States. What has happened to the land is >>>an embarrassment. Thank you. >>> >>>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>>multipart/alternative >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) >>> text/html >>>--- >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>>Subscription Services: >>>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >> > > -- > Rick Trapp > Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey > rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Tue Apr 12 18:59:54 2005 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Tue Apr 12 18:59:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Growing Copper Geodes References: <001d01c53f92$a1e2d620$21e6490c@jenscomputer> Message-ID: <008b01c53fcc$7d3ac910$6501a8c0@GlennWimpee> Ever look out the plane window in "flyover country" USA? WOW!!! lots of forest GREEN! And other natural land... Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Johnston" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 3:19 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Growing Copper Geodes > On Apr 12, 2005 12:31 PM, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > >> While there is plenty of work to be done on the environment >> here we are spending huge amounts of money and making major efforts to >> clean up problems. We have more forests here now than they did in the >> 1700's, the air and water are cleaner than they have been for a >> hundred years or more. And mine site recovery goes on at great >> expense. >> > > In the 1700's most of the land west of the Mississippi was primitive. > I find it hard to believe there are more forest in California than > there was in 1848. There may be more tree farms in the U. S., but a > farm is not a forest. > > I've seen tree farms in the Deep South; Louisiana, Mississippi, and > Alabama, that looked like rows of Christmas trees waiting to be sold. > In those states I saw an occasional copse but very few forest. > > Grant Johnston, Chico, CA > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From xossfs at yahoo.com Tue Apr 12 19:27:16 2005 From: xossfs at yahoo.com (Stephen Stover) Date: Tue Apr 12 19:27:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] San Antonio Texas In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050413022716.21372.qmail@web20027.mail.yahoo.com> sorry you cannot make a side trip. about 60 miles south of you is some of the best pet. wood ever near the chole canyon resivoir. --- Gary Brown wrote: > I'm going to be travelling to San Antonio, TX, for a > couple of days. Any > interesting rock shops down there? I probably won't > have any time for > collecting...unless there is something nearby that a > "look at the ground and > pick it up" kind of collecting would work for. > > GcB > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > Stephen F. Stover PH (281) 829-1102 xossfs@yahoo.com Wanting to hunt rocks and play games every day! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ From tim at orerockon.com Tue Apr 12 19:03:12 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Apr 13 08:16:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Copper Sulfate (non)toxicity In-Reply-To: <08c601c53fa0$8fe82480$6702a8c0@heathercomp> References: <001d01c53f92$a1e2d620$21e6490c@jenscomputer> <081801c53f95$5428e390$6702a8c0@heathercomp> <08c601c53fa0$8fe82480$6702a8c0@heathercomp> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050412190010.028492f8@mail.spiritone.com> No, it isn't. It is approved by the EPA to treat fish ponds for algae, which it IS very toxic to. If the EPA approves it then you can bet on your life that eating said (still living) fish is not going to hurt you. I used it all the time when I maintained bass ponds in PA for the Fish Commission. It doesn't kill fish. At 01:45 PM 4/12/2005, you wrote: >I thought the stuff was just not all that safe in an unventilated area..... > >as well, what about disposal of the material? I know it is very toxic to >aquatic organisms..... > >I just wouldn't want my kids growing crystals out of that stuff unless >they were very well supervised. > >Michael Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From bill.meyer at kraton.com Wed Apr 13 08:31:40 2005 From: bill.meyer at kraton.com (Meyer, Bill J KRT-KRT) Date: Wed Apr 13 08:31:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] San Antonio Texas Message-ID: <27312155028B5A4A943E8C6536360AE9025DE1B1@hokrtx01.kraton.org> Hi Steven, Living in Houston I would be most interested making a trip to Chole Canyon. Can you be a little more specific as to the location of this wood? Bill Meyer KRATON Polymers US LLC Westhollow Technology Center Room C-1403 3333 Hwy. 6 South Houston, TX 77082 281-668-3204 bill.meyer@kraton.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Stover Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 9:27 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] San Antonio Texas sorry you cannot make a side trip. about 60 miles south of you is some of the best pet. wood ever near the chole canyon resivoir. --- Gary Brown wrote: > I'm going to be travelling to San Antonio, TX, for a > couple of days. Any > interesting rock shops down there? I probably won't > have any time for > collecting...unless there is something nearby that a > "look at the ground and > pick it up" kind of collecting would work for. > > GcB > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > Stephen F. Stover PH (281) 829-1102 xossfs@yahoo.com Wanting to hunt rocks and play games every day! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From c6lh12lo6 at worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 13 10:01:29 2005 From: c6lh12lo6 at worldnet.att.net (Jennifer Parat) Date: Wed Apr 13 10:04:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Growing Copper Geodes Message-ID: <000e01c5404a$7074fd80$10e5490c@jenscomputer> Hello. Copper Sulfate is hazardous. Supervision is necessary. It is not a serious threat if it is spilled or swallowed. To Don... I attend University of Illinois at Chicago. The battle against the environment is necessary for all. My children will not be able to enjoy it. (I have yet to have kids...lol) To Bryan... If you need ideas for children, I'd be happy to lend a hand. lol. It's what they pay me to do. I work at the Adler Planetarium. It is my job to bring the "big" science ideas down to the children's level. We are constantly planning new projects and trips. Unfortunately, I have more activities that promotes astronomy instead of geology. I am from the United States. I study at University of Illinois at Chicago. You know what they say about somebody who assumes... lol. About my comment to the rockhounds... It really is not applicable to the environment. I'm sorry that my letter mislead you. Rock sites are destroyed. It is unfortunate. In fact, I think someone wrote "leave no rock behind." That is exactly what is happening to these sites. Nonetheless, I disagree about your comments about the environment. I know the European Union is trying very hard to restore their environment. Each country is different, but Sweden is fighting a strong battle. The US environment is in a bad state. We are lucky that we get to ship our garbage to third world countries (sarcasm). It keeps our land pristine. Best, Jennifer --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From bova at mindspring.com Wed Apr 13 10:09:37 2005 From: bova at mindspring.com (Carol J. Bova) Date: Wed Apr 13 10:05:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] vibration insulation Message-ID: Hi Folks.. What do you use or recommend as a vibration/noise insulator to put under a tumbler mounted to a cement block? I had a piece of some kind of foam pad material back in L.A., and I can't remember where I found it, or what kind it was. Thanks much! Carol Carol J. Bova The Eclectic Lapidary http://www.eclecticlapidary.com From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Wed Apr 13 10:30:45 2005 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Wed Apr 13 10:30:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Copper Sulfate (non)toxicity In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050412190010.028492f8@mail.spiritone.com> References: <001d01c53f92$a1e2d620$21e6490c@jenscomputer> <081801c53f95$5428e390$6702a8c0@heathercomp> <08c601c53fa0$8fe82480$6702a8c0@heathercomp> <6.2.1.2.2.20050412190010.028492f8@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <425D5745.1040001@xs4all.nl> Ahhh there we are again the ever returning topic of toxicity. We allready had oxalic acid and minerals in general in that chapter and now copper sulfate. For all of you who are really scared about possible toxic effects of minerals, cleaning- or analytical agents or other chemicals, please quid your hobby now and go collecting stamps now that you are still alive! If you do want to handle any chermicals please see the danger in perspective. Sure copper sulfate is toxic, if you eat enough of it. How much? Well does that matter? I'm sure you are not going to try it. It was fun to see Bryan quoting the LD50 of 300mg/kg. First of all the LD50 is the value at which half of the population dies. Does this mean you can safely eat say 100mg/kg?? Secondly those LD50 values are mostly gained in rat experiments. Somehow they are always short of human volunteers :-) There are some differences in rats and humans, which could be reflected in the value. (Surprisingly birds are largely resistent against cyanide intoxication, while mamals are not, yet both have similar hemoglobine structures, where cyanide attacks) You could better look at MAC (maximum allowable concentration) values. These values are the maximum concentration without any harmfull effects. Since most of us will use these chemicals only sometimes we will not have to bother about cumulative intoxication. The point is to be responsible and know what you do. So don't put a drinking glass with hydrochloric acid next to your gin-tonic. Not the chemicals are the danger, the people handling the chemicals (and minerals) are! When I taught analytical chemistry to my students I always adviced them to poor concentrated acids WITHOUT rubber gloves. (HF will be the exception here ;-) ). In 99.99% of the cases nothing happens. But if you spill a tiny drop on your hand with the glove you won't know it. Next thing there is something in your eye and you wipe the acid in your eye. Believe me I have seen it happen more than once! Without the gloves you feel the acid burn on your hand. It does not eat your hand away in a puff of smoke. You have more than enough time to slowly walk to the tap and rinse of your hand with water. So in general you should tread all chemicals as equally toxic and just never ingest it. If you worry about toxicological effects, you are allready on the wrong way and you should seriously consider your working hygene. cheers, Maurice Tim Fisher wrote: > No, it isn't. It is approved by the EPA to treat fish ponds for algae, > which it IS very toxic to. If the EPA approves it then you can bet on > your life that eating said (still living) fish is not going to hurt > you. I used it all the time when I maintained bass ponds in PA for the > Fish Commission. It doesn't kill fish. > > At 01:45 PM 4/12/2005, you wrote: > >> I thought the stuff was just not all that safe in an unventilated >> area..... >> >> as well, what about disposal of the material? I know it is very >> toxic to aquatic organisms..... >> >> I just wouldn't want my kids growing crystals out of that stuff >> unless they were very well supervised. >> >> Michael > > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From jr50wv at yahoo.com Wed Apr 13 11:08:59 2005 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Wed Apr 13 11:09:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Enviromental stuff Message-ID: <20050413180859.63815.qmail@web41012.mail.yahoo.com> Hi: I don't have time to track down and source the current and historic numbers, but I firmly believe that the remark about "more trees currently in the US than 100 years ago" is completely accurate. Partly this is because 100 years ago the great eastern forests and much of the northern mid-western forests had been clear-cut, and that small family farms existed where now there are hill-sides covered with second growth forests of quite large trees. 90% of these family farms have returned to the forest, after the topsoil hit the gulf of Mexico (or Great Lakes, or Chesapeake Bay, etc). Additionally, there is a lot of reclamation of abandoned mines, here in WV thousands of acres of damaged land and dangerous conditions (shafts, adits, high-walls, etc) are reclaimed or rendered harmless. Backfilling high-walls, putting concrete caps on shafts, burying open drift mouths or gateing them so that people can't enter them, all this costs money, and there is a fee per ton mined that funds this AML work. The last time I collected minerals out west, we met a nice guy in the Bonanza mining district of south central Colorado, just a little south of Pancha Springs. HE worked for the forest service, and was in charge of a super-fund cleanup of the Rawley (not sure of spelling at this point) mine, a giant lead/silver/zinc mine which had filled a big hollow up with tailings before being abandoned in the 70s or 80s. They had a flexible pipe carrying the creek over top of the tailings, so the heavy metals in the waste wouldn't be dissolved in the Rock Mountain Spring Water and delivered downstream to people in Oklahoma, Texas and Arkansas for drinking water. When I was a boy in the 1950s and we would drive to the Kanwha Valley in WV from our home town 60 miles away, the industrial plant provided yellow acrid air, a continuous 24-hour a day fog, and opaque water that was dangerous to come in contact with. Now people water ski on that river, and the air is generally clear and odorless. So things have improved, even if they aren't perfect. I will confess that in AZ and NM I have seen a lot of abandoned mines and smelters with nary a sign of any clean up, but it doesn't rain much there, so the toxins (lead salts and other heavy metals) are mainly non-mobile. With no transport available, the fate-and-transport model offers the opportunity to leave it alone until the sites with transport issues have all been dealt with. So that's probably what's going on with abandoned sites in Arizona and New Mexico. There are a lot of reincarnated forests back east, though, where there was bare dirt farms a century ago. JR in WV --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Apr 13 11:10:19 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Apr 13 11:10:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Axel In-Reply-To: <007101c53fc9$0bb9f5c0$6501a8c0@GlennWimpee> Message-ID: OK, I'll ask... AAOTE??? ;-))))) Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Glenn Wimpee Verzonden: woensdag 13 april 2005 3:35 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Re: Axel ROTFLMAOAAOTE Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 11:36 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Discovery Channel show on supervolcano > Hoi Margaret, > > yeah, I got it figured out ;-))) > >>for *escape*??? > > I'm afraid that Yellowstone is more of a *delete* than an *escape* for us > (LOL) > > Speaking of *delete*: the Antwerp University has a new superdepuper > ultradeluxe power computer that is so incredibly powerful that if you hit > the delete button, the university disappears. I heard it on TV so it must > be > true ;-))) > > Axel > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 13 11:14:24 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Wed Apr 13 11:14:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Copper Sulfate (non)toxicity In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050413181424.20524.qmail@web51001.mail.yahoo.com> > >as well, what about disposal of the material? No problem! Dilute it and put it on your house plants. It's one of the main ingredients in Miracle-Gro and similar plant foods. Jim Daly __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ From fossilnut at aol.com Wed Apr 13 11:15:12 2005 From: fossilnut at aol.com (fossilnut@aol.com) Date: Wed Apr 13 11:15:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Growing Copper Geodes In-Reply-To: <000e01c5404a$7074fd80$10e5490c@jenscomputer> References: <000e01c5404a$7074fd80$10e5490c@jenscomputer> Message-ID: <8C70E6BDE9FFCCF-1B4-29FE3@mblk-r24.sysops.aol.com> While I have no real qualms about using copper sulfate in this context (with supervision), as a person with a chemical background, I also believe that there is little point using a more hazardous substance when a less hazardous one will do the job. To that end I might substitute alum for copper sulfate. As a child I grew some great alum crystals. Alum (aluminum sulfate) is cheap and easy to use in this context. It is less likely to stain (copper sulfate will stain your skin for awhile... I've done it) and a lot less toxic. Nonetheless, nothing is totally non-toxic and human deaths have been reported from eating 30 grams of the material. Since alum tastes awful.... again from personal experience.... I cannot imagine any sane person willingly eating 30 grams of the stuff. UGH!! At any rate, except for the color, alum will make great geodes. The Rat LD 50 is over 6000 mg/kg moving it into a much lower toxicity class. As a child I also doped this with a little chrome alum to make pretty purple crystals. It does not take much. HOWEVER, since chrome alum contains chromium and there are issues with chrome salts, I would not recommend this be used. Note that the chrome here is chrome 3 not chrome 6, but there is so much controversy over chromium in general that there is no point opening this can of worms. For that matter sugar with food coloring would also work, I suspect. Except it would attract ants. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE -----Original Message----- From: Jennifer Parat To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 12:01:29 -0500 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Growing Copper Geodes Hello. Copper Sulfate is hazardous. Supervision is necessary. It is not a serious threat if it is spilled or swallowed. To Don... I attend University of Illinois at Chicago. The battle against the environment is necessary for all. My children will not be able to enjoy it. (I have yet to have kids...lol) To Bryan... If you need ideas for children, I'd be happy to lend a hand. lol. It's what they pay me to do. I work at the Adler Planetarium. It is my job to bring the "big" science ideas down to the children's level. We are constantly planning new projects and trips. Unfortunately, I have more activities that promotes astronomy instead of geology. I am from the United States. I study at University of Illinois at Chicago. You know what they say about somebody who assumes... lol. About my comment to the rockhounds... It really is not applicable to the environment. I'm sorry that my letter mislead you. Rock sites are destroyed. It is unfortunate. In fact, I think someone wrote "leave no rock behind." That is exactly what is happening to these sites. Nonetheless, I disagree about your comments about the environment. I know the European Union is trying very hard to restore their environment. Each country is different, but Sweden is fighting a strong battle. The US environment is in a bad state. We are lucky that we get to ship our garbage to third world countries (sarcasm). It keeps our land pristine. Best, Jennifer --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Wed Apr 13 10:51:16 2005 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Wed Apr 13 11:27:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] VACATION Message-ID: <00ea01c54056$7a1ccc80$8e4127c4@privatehome> Hi Aaron, Please do not forward any list messages from 16th April to 26th May 2005 to my e-mail address. My wife and I are going oin an extended vacation to Europe during this time. Hope to see various geological/mineralogical museums - Moscow, St. Petersburg, Stockholm, Dortmund, Hannover and Idar-Oberstein; also planning to collect micros at Langban (Sweden) and Grube Clara (Germany). Kind regards, Horst --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Wed Apr 13 11:50:16 2005 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Wed Apr 13 11:48:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] vibration insulation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Carol, Thick felt is good. Depending on hardware store resources in your area felt may be of limited availability. In that case try three or four pair of thick (say 1/2") felt insoles for workbooks. Repeated interlayering of felt foam rubber and cork are very good. Each material dampens a certain frequency range of vibration. Use contact cement to stick the layers together. Cheers Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada - where the dogshit is thawing out of the snowbanks. ====== On Wednesday, April 13, 2005, at 02:09 PM, Carol J. Bova wrote: > Hi Folks.. > What do you use or recommend as a vibration/noise insulator to put > under a tumbler mounted to a cement block? I had a piece of some kind > of foam pad material back in L.A., and I can't remember where I found > it, or what kind it was. > Thanks much! > Carol > > Carol J. Bova > The Eclectic Lapidary > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov Wed Apr 13 12:03:08 2005 From: rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov (Richard Trapp) Date: Wed Apr 13 12:03:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Enviromental stuff In-Reply-To: <20050413180859.63815.qmail@web41012.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050413180859.63815.qmail@web41012.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <425D6CEC.3090604@azgs.az.gov> well, it's always nice to have opinions, after all, everybody has at least one. opinions, however, no matter how much they try to be glorified, are not facts. I asked for facts. After all, many people are of the opinion that creationism is a valid concept. They don't have any facts to back up their opinions, but they can prattle on for hours, weeks, months and years "justifying" their views. The statement was not that there are more trees now than 100 years ago, the statement was that there are more trees now than in the 1700's. While it is true that some trees had been cut down by then, I sincerely doubt that the great forests of the east and northern midwest had been much affected by a population that was around 275,000 in 1700, less than 1,000,000 until 1750, and didn't break 5,000,000 until 1800. So I know you stated that you "don't have time to track down... the numbers", but since that is the case, how can you justify stating a specific number like 90% ?? It's easy to pull numbers out of your wherever, but that doesn't make them valid. Also, it's very easy to argue using anecdotes like, "When I was young we used to have to walk ten miles in the snow to get to school... and it was uphill both ways". That's a favorite one of my father. But anecdotes are no match for actual facts. Once again, Bryan's statement was that the air and water is cleaner now than 100 years ago, not 50 years ago. 100 years ago this country was predominantly rural. 50 years ago the country was no longer predominantly rural. So I don't see how your personal experiences have anything to do with Bryan's argument unless you happen to be over 100 years old. Also, I appreciate you opinions about the aridity of Arizona, but as a matter of fact it does rain here. And toxins are not relatively immobile. Mining mostly takes place in the more mountainous areas here, which do receive more rain than the valleys. So what happens when it rains in the mountains on the abandoned mine sites? The water carries bad stuff away from the mines and guess where it flows?? Why it flows downhill. What a surprise! And what lies downhill from the mines? Why that's where all the people live and that's where they get their water from. Unlike you, I do live in Arizona. I am also a geologist, with a Master's with emphasis on Mineral Exploration. So I guess my opinion counts a little more than yours... but it's still just an opinion because I didn't back it up with facts. Like I said, everybody has an opinion.... Now all this may seem like it has no relation to Rockhounds, but in fact it does. We often spin off here into discussions of land use and damage caused by mining activities, which really includes the activities of rockhounds in some places. And all the time we hear people opining about this and opining about that, which is fine... but opinions don't mean diddley squat unless they are backed up by facts. I'm not saying this to diss you, J.R., I'm trying to point out the difference between opinions and facts. And people are certainly welcome to state their opinions, but they should identify their views as opinions, not as facts. And I do give you credit, J.R., you clearly stated that you didn't have time to look up the facts.... J. R. Hodel wrote: >Hi: > >I don't have time to track down and source the current and historic numbers, but I firmly believe that the remark about "more trees currently in the US than 100 years ago" is completely accurate. Partly this is because 100 years ago the great eastern forests and much of the northern mid-western forests had been clear-cut, and that small family farms existed where now there are hill-sides covered with second growth forests of quite large trees. 90% of these family farms have returned to the forest, after the topsoil hit the gulf of Mexico (or Great Lakes, or Chesapeake Bay, etc). > >Additionally, there is a lot of reclamation of abandoned mines, here in WV thousands of acres of damaged land and dangerous conditions (shafts, adits, high-walls, etc) are reclaimed or rendered harmless. Backfilling high-walls, putting concrete caps on shafts, burying open drift mouths or gateing them so that people can't enter them, all this costs money, and there is a fee per ton mined that funds this AML work. > >The last time I collected minerals out west, we met a nice guy in the Bonanza mining district of south central Colorado, just a little south of Pancha Springs. HE worked for the forest service, and was in charge of a super-fund cleanup of the Rawley (not sure of spelling at this point) mine, a giant lead/silver/zinc mine which had filled a big hollow up with tailings before being abandoned in the 70s or 80s. They had a flexible pipe carrying the creek over top of the tailings, so the heavy metals in the waste wouldn't be dissolved in the Rock Mountain Spring Water and delivered downstream to people in Oklahoma, Texas and Arkansas for drinking water. > >When I was a boy in the 1950s and we would drive to the Kanwha Valley in WV from our home town 60 miles away, the industrial plant provided yellow acrid air, a continuous 24-hour a day fog, and opaque water that was dangerous to come in contact with. Now people water ski on that river, and the air is generally clear and odorless. So things have improved, even if they aren't perfect. > >I will confess that in AZ and NM I have seen a lot of abandoned mines and smelters with nary a sign of any clean up, but it doesn't rain much there, so the toxins (lead salts and other heavy metals) are mainly non-mobile. With no transport available, the fate-and-transport model offers the opportunity to leave it alone until the sites with transport issues have all been dealt with. > >So that's probably what's going on with abandoned sites in Arizona and New Mexico. > >There are a lot of reincarnated forests back east, though, where there was bare dirt farms a century ago. > >JR in WV > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > -- Rick Trapp Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Wed Apr 13 12:05:44 2005 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Wayne Rasmussen) Date: Wed Apr 13 12:06:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Enviromental stuff References: <20050413180859.63815.qmail@web41012.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001f01c5405b$cc9beea0$695fe842@Titans> JR, I agree, here in East Central Oregon on the high desert with an average of less than 10 inches per year precipitation, they have and are planting a fast growing tree that is also of high value when reaching lumber size in about 10 years time, they plant right in rows as if the trees are a row crop which I suppose they are, fertilized and watered as needed, the growth is somewhat of a miracle as it appears to be 6 to 8 feet per year average. Many acres have been planted but in the future it looks as if this may be the crop of choice along with other specialty crops, the U.S. is now allowing foreign onions and sugar to flood our markets putting very large sugar beet refiner's out of business here in the last month putting hundreds out of work, the same with onion growers, as time marches forward it will be interesting to see what the agricultural area's in the U.S. will grow, perhaps Copper lined hollow sugar beet Geode's, or Copper Corn Crunchies : >( wr ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. R. Hodel" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 12:08 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Enviromental stuff > Hi: > > I don't have time to track down and source the current and historic > numbers, but I firmly believe that the remark about "more trees currently > in the US than 100 years ago" is completely accurate. Partly this is > because 100 years ago the great eastern forests and much of the northern > mid-western forests had been clear-cut, and that small family farms > existed where now there are hill-sides covered with second growth forests > of quite large trees. 90% of these family farms have returned to the > forest, after the topsoil hit the gulf of Mexico (or Great Lakes, or > Chesapeake Bay, etc). > > Additionally, there is a lot of reclamation of abandoned mines, here in WV > thousands of acres of damaged land and dangerous conditions (shafts, > adits, high-walls, etc) are reclaimed or rendered harmless. Backfilling > high-walls, putting concrete caps on shafts, burying open drift mouths or > gateing them so that people can't enter them, all this costs money, and > there is a fee per ton mined that funds this AML work. > > The last time I collected minerals out west, we met a nice guy in the > Bonanza mining district of south central Colorado, just a little south of > Pancha Springs. HE worked for the forest service, and was in charge of a > super-fund cleanup of the Rawley (not sure of spelling at this point) > mine, a giant lead/silver/zinc mine which had filled a big hollow up with > tailings before being abandoned in the 70s or 80s. They had a flexible > pipe carrying the creek over top of the tailings, so the heavy metals in > the waste wouldn't be dissolved in the Rock Mountain Spring Water and > delivered downstream to people in Oklahoma, Texas and Arkansas for > drinking water. > > When I was a boy in the 1950s and we would drive to the Kanwha Valley in > WV from our home town 60 miles away, the industrial plant provided yellow > acrid air, a continuous 24-hour a day fog, and opaque water that was > dangerous to come in contact with. Now people water ski on that river, > and the air is generally clear and odorless. So things have improved, > even if they aren't perfect. > > I will confess that in AZ and NM I have seen a lot of abandoned mines and > smelters with nary a sign of any clean up, but it doesn't rain much there, > so the toxins (lead salts and other heavy metals) are mainly non-mobile. > With no transport available, the fate-and-transport model offers the > opportunity to leave it alone until the sites with transport issues have > all been dealt with. > > So that's probably what's going on with abandoned sites in Arizona and New > Mexico. > > There are a lot of reincarnated forests back east, though, where there was > bare dirt farms a century ago. > > JR in WV > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Wed Apr 13 12:15:24 2005 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Wayne Rasmussen) Date: Wed Apr 13 12:15:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] vibration insulation References: Message-ID: <003d01c5405d$25cdd5f0$695fe842@Titans> Carol, glad to see you up and on with things again, I had the same problem, I just use a big cardboard box put over the piece of equipment allowing plenty of room for the air to move. WR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol J. Bova" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 11:09 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] vibration insulation > Hi Folks.. > What do you use or recommend as a vibration/noise insulator to put under a > tumbler mounted to a cement block? I had a piece of some kind of foam pad > material back in L.A., and I can't remember where I found it, or what kind > it was. > Thanks much! > Carol > > Carol J. Bova > The Eclectic Lapidary > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rik.dillen at skynet.be Wed Apr 13 12:26:55 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Wed Apr 13 12:27:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] VACATION In-Reply-To: <00ea01c54056$7a1ccc80$8e4127c4@privatehome> Message-ID: <200504131927.j3DJQuQl020264@outmx003.isp.belgacom.be> Well Horst, you will have seen far more of Europe than I will ever have the occasion for ! I'm quite sure that you will be exhausted after that trip. Anyway, enjoy your trip. You will see... Europe isn't that bad after all :>))) If you visit Brussels with its Natural History Museum (with the most important collection of real iguanodon skeletons in the world) don't forget to make an appointment with my daughter Tine (she visited you some years ago) who works actually in the biology department of that institute. Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Horst Windisch Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 7:51 PM To: rockhounds Subject: [Rockhounds] VACATION Hi Aaron, Please do not forward any list messages from 16th April to 26th May 2005 to my e-mail address. My wife and I are going oin an extended vacation to Europe during this time. Hope to see various geological/mineralogical museums - Moscow, St. Petersburg, Stockholm, Dortmund, Hannover and Idar-Oberstein; also planning to collect micros at Langban (Sweden) and Grube Clara (Germany). Kind regards, Horst From kahako at verizon.net Wed Apr 13 12:27:54 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Apr 13 12:27:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] vibration insulation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050413092204.02646df8@incoming.verizon.net> We used a doormat from Wal*Mart as sound insulation under a pump. They have cheap ones that are a combination of what looks like foam, fiber and rubber. Also at automotive stores you can get a sturdy foam pad that is supposed to be used to lie down on when you're working or reaching underneath a car. Aloha, Kitty >Hi Folks.. >What do you use or recommend as a vibration/noise insulator to put under a >tumbler mounted to a cement block? I had a piece of some kind of foam pad >material back in L.A., and I can't remember where I found it, or what kind >it was. >Thanks much! >Carol > >Carol J. Bova From kahako at verizon.net Wed Apr 13 12:34:02 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Apr 13 12:34:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] VACATION In-Reply-To: <00ea01c54056$7a1ccc80$8e4127c4@privatehome> References: <00ea01c54056$7a1ccc80$8e4127c4@privatehome> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050413092858.026460a0@incoming.verizon.net> Glad to see that you and Erika have recovered sufficiently from heart surgery and hip replacement (respectively) to be able to take such a trip. Sounds wonderful. Take care, have fun, and send a report to the List when you get back. Aloha, Kitty >.... My wife and I are going oin an extended vacation to Europe during >this time. > >Hope to see various geological/mineralogical museums - Moscow, St. >Petersburg, Stockholm, Dortmund, Hannover and Idar-Oberstein; also >planning to collect micros at Langban (Sweden) and Grube Clara (Germany). > >Kind regards, >Horst From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Wed Apr 13 12:37:08 2005 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Wed Apr 13 12:35:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] vibration insulation In-Reply-To: <003d01c5405d$25cdd5f0$695fe842@Titans> Message-ID: <6CA583A0-AC53-11D9-A9AC-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Be careful with putting covers OVER a running motor. Some years ago, late at night, I inverted a plastic bucket over a vibratory tumbler to deaden the noise - which it did - and then went to bed. Net day I woke with the powerful acrid odor of burnt plastic suffusing the house. Underneath the bucket the heat of the unventilated motor had built up to such an extent that the tumbler base had melted dripping plastic into the motor. In doing so it also - fortunately - insulated a strategic electrical connection which stopped the motor. Had it not I might not be around to sound this caution. Cheers again Hans Durstling same place as before ============== On Wednesday, April 13, 2005, at 04:15 PM, Wayne Rasmussen wrote: > Carol, glad to see you up and on with things again, I had the same > problem, I just use a big cardboard box put over the > piece of equipment allowing plenty of room for the air to move. > WR > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol J. Bova" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 11:09 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] vibration insulation > > >> Hi Folks.. >> What do you use or recommend as a vibration/noise insulator to put >> under a tumbler mounted to a cement block? I had a piece of some kind >> of foam pad material back in L.A., and I can't remember where I found >> it, or what kind it was. >> Thanks much! >> Carol >> >> Carol J. Bova >> The Eclectic Lapidary >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From tim at orerockon.com Wed Apr 13 13:13:15 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Apr 13 13:13:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] vibration insulation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050413131124.02706de8@mail.spiritone.com> If you can find it, high density polyurethene foam is the best. Alternately, I know someone who used the spray can type foam insulation to build a custom insulated box out an old shipping crate for their 50 pounder. Worked like a charm :) At 10:09 AM 4/13/2005, you wrote: >Hi Folks.. >What do you use or recommend as a vibration/noise insulator to put under a >tumbler mounted to a cement block? I had a piece of some kind of foam pad >material back in L.A., and I can't remember where I found it, or what kind >it was. >Thanks much! >Carol > >Carol J. Bova >The Eclectic Lapidary >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Wed Apr 13 13:21:52 2005 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Wayne Rasmussen) Date: Wed Apr 13 13:22:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] vibration insulation References: <6CA583A0-AC53-11D9-A9AC-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Message-ID: <000f01c54066$6f4657d0$655fe842@Titans> Yes Hans, a small plastic bucket would create a potential disaster, that's why I use a large box, the ratio of heat from a motor is then dissipated in the interior cubic feet of air available, I have found when running these small tumblers the only reasonable place to tumble is in a garage, or if no Garage a flat surface in a yard if nothing else, in the home or living quarters one has to also think about toxic gases coming from the rock during the tumbling process, although very small in quality. when I tumble now it is in 200 pound batches, when I opened one load a few years ago I became dizzy, I believe it was due to the rock gas present as it was under several pounds pressure when opened. I now tumble on the exterior of a shop on a concrete approach pad and use a 20 inch fan that blows the fumes away from me. I start the tumbling process using # 30 carbide grit bought from Jesco Products for $ 1.35 a pound in 100 pound sales plus shipping, they can be reached at 800-422-GRIT. along with many other sizes plus polish too. Hans I am glad you were not effected by the plastic bucket incident. WR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Durstling" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] vibration insulation > Be careful with putting covers OVER a running motor. Some years ago, late > at night, I inverted a plastic bucket over a vibratory tumbler to deaden > the noise - which it did - and then went to bed. Net day I woke with the > powerful acrid odor of burnt plastic suffusing the house. Underneath the > bucket the heat of the unventilated motor had built up to such an extent > that the tumbler base had melted dripping plastic into the motor. In doing > so it also - fortunately - insulated a strategic electrical connection > which stopped the motor. Had it not I might not be around to sound this > caution. > > Cheers again > Hans Durstling > same place as before > > ============== > > On Wednesday, April 13, 2005, at 04:15 PM, Wayne Rasmussen wrote: > >> Carol, glad to see you up and on with things again, I had the same >> problem, I just use a big cardboard box put over the >> piece of equipment allowing plenty of room for the air to move. >> WR >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol J. Bova" >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 11:09 AM >> Subject: [Rockhounds] vibration insulation >> >> >>> Hi Folks.. >>> What do you use or recommend as a vibration/noise insulator to put under >>> a tumbler mounted to a cement block? I had a piece of some kind of foam >>> pad material back in L.A., and I can't remember where I found it, or >>> what kind it was. >>> Thanks much! >>> Carol >>> >>> Carol J. Bova >>> The Eclectic Lapidary >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rocks4u at prodigy.net Wed Apr 13 13:39:25 2005 From: rocks4u at prodigy.net (rocks4u@prodigy.net) Date: Wed Apr 13 13:44:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Copper Sulfate (non)toxicity References: <001d01c53f92$a1e2d620$21e6490c@jenscomputer> <081801c53f95$5428e390$6702a8c0@heathercomp> <08c601c53fa0$8fe82480$6702a8c0@heathercomp><6.2.1.2.2.20050412190010.028492f8@mail.spiritone.com> <425D5745.1040001@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <053401c54068$e3440770$8291fea9@WesMedion1918> Let me tell you a first hand experience with Copper Sulphate. My son and I were cleaning out a garage of an Estate I had recently purchased when he found a can full of pretty blue crystals. He handled them with both hands (bare) not knowing what they were. A little later he eat a brownie that Mom had sent along on the trip. Within 20 minutes he was doubled up in noxious vomiting and dizziness. He was that way all the way home from Prunedale, CA to our home, a distance of about 150 miles, convulsing in dry heaves. There was only one explanation for his sudden illness and I knew immediately what it was after I had retraced his steps that morning. No one can convince me that Copper Sulphate is non-toxic. End of story! Wes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice de Graaf" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 10:30 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Copper Sulfate (non)toxicity > Ahhh there we are again the ever returning topic of toxicity. We allready > had oxalic acid and minerals in general in that chapter and now copper > sulfate. > > For all of you who are really scared about possible toxic effects of > minerals, cleaning- or analytical agents or other chemicals, please quid > your hobby now and go collecting stamps now that you are still alive! > > If you do want to handle any chermicals please see the danger in > perspective. Sure copper sulfate is toxic, if you eat enough of it. How > much? Well does that matter? I'm sure you are not going to try it. It was > fun to see Bryan quoting the LD50 of 300mg/kg. First of all the LD50 is > the value at which half of the population dies. Does this mean you can > safely eat say 100mg/kg?? Secondly those LD50 values are mostly gained in > rat experiments. Somehow they are always short of human volunteers :-) > There are some differences in rats and humans, which could be reflected in > the value. (Surprisingly birds are largely resistent against cyanide > intoxication, while mamals are not, yet both have similar hemoglobine > structures, where cyanide attacks) You could better look at MAC (maximum > allowable concentration) values. These values are the maximum > concentration without any harmfull effects. Since most of us will use > these chemicals only sometimes we will not have to bother about cumulative > intoxication. The point is to be responsible and know what you do. So > don't put a drinking glass with hydrochloric acid next to your gin-tonic. > Not the chemicals are the danger, the people handling the chemicals (and > minerals) are! > > When I taught analytical chemistry to my students I always adviced them to > poor concentrated acids WITHOUT rubber gloves. (HF will be the exception > here ;-) ). In 99.99% of the cases nothing happens. But if you spill a > tiny drop on your hand with the glove you won't know it. Next thing there > is something in your eye and you wipe the acid in your eye. Believe me I > have seen it happen more than once! Without the gloves you feel the acid > burn on your hand. It does not eat your hand away in a puff of smoke. You > have more than enough time to slowly walk to the tap and rinse of your > hand with water. > > So in general you should tread all chemicals as equally toxic and just > never ingest it. If you worry about toxicological effects, you are > allready on the wrong way and you should seriously consider your working > hygene. > > cheers, > Maurice > From rik.dillen at skynet.be Wed Apr 13 13:52:46 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Wed Apr 13 13:53:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Copper Sulfate (non)toxicity In-Reply-To: <053401c54068$e3440770$8291fea9@WesMedion1918> Message-ID: <200504132052.j3DKqlxW024868@outmx005.isp.belgacom.be> Hi Wes, I don't doubt your story for a second, and it's very sad it happened, but I'm pretty convinced that he must have swallowed accidentally more than some copper sulphate dust adhering on his fingers. Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of rocks4u@prodigy.net Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 10:39 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Copper Sulfate (non)toxicity Let me tell you a first hand experience with Copper Sulphate. My son and I were cleaning out a garage of an Estate I had recently purchased when he found a can full of pretty blue crystals. He handled them with both hands (bare) not knowing what they were. A little later he eat a brownie that Mom had sent along on the trip. Within 20 minutes he was doubled up in noxious vomiting and dizziness. He was that way all the way home from Prunedale, CA to our home, a distance of about 150 miles, convulsing in dry heaves. There was only one explanation for his sudden illness and I knew immediately what it was after I had retraced his steps that morning. No one can convince me that Copper Sulphate is non-toxic. End of story! Wes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice de Graaf" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 10:30 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Copper Sulfate (non)toxicity > Ahhh there we are again the ever returning topic of toxicity. We allready > had oxalic acid and minerals in general in that chapter and now copper > sulfate. > > For all of you who are really scared about possible toxic effects of > minerals, cleaning- or analytical agents or other chemicals, please quid > your hobby now and go collecting stamps now that you are still alive! > > If you do want to handle any chermicals please see the danger in > perspective. Sure copper sulfate is toxic, if you eat enough of it. How > much? Well does that matter? I'm sure you are not going to try it. It was > fun to see Bryan quoting the LD50 of 300mg/kg. First of all the LD50 is > the value at which half of the population dies. Does this mean you can > safely eat say 100mg/kg?? Secondly those LD50 values are mostly gained in > rat experiments. Somehow they are always short of human volunteers :-) > There are some differences in rats and humans, which could be reflected in > the value. (Surprisingly birds are largely resistent against cyanide > intoxication, while mamals are not, yet both have similar hemoglobine > structures, where cyanide attacks) You could better look at MAC (maximum > allowable concentration) values. These values are the maximum > concentration without any harmfull effects. Since most of us will use > these chemicals only sometimes we will not have to bother about cumulative > intoxication. The point is to be responsible and know what you do. So > don't put a drinking glass with hydrochloric acid next to your gin-tonic. > Not the chemicals are the danger, the people handling the chemicals (and > minerals) are! > > When I taught analytical chemistry to my students I always adviced them to > poor concentrated acids WITHOUT rubber gloves. (HF will be the exception > here ;-) ). In 99.99% of the cases nothing happens. But if you spill a > tiny drop on your hand with the glove you won't know it. Next thing there > is something in your eye and you wipe the acid in your eye. Believe me I > have seen it happen more than once! Without the gloves you feel the acid > burn on your hand. It does not eat your hand away in a puff of smoke. You > have more than enough time to slowly walk to the tap and rinse of your > hand with water. > > So in general you should tread all chemicals as equally toxic and just > never ingest it. If you worry about toxicological effects, you are > allready on the wrong way and you should seriously consider your working > hygene. > > cheers, > Maurice > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rocks4u at prodigy.net Wed Apr 13 14:08:58 2005 From: rocks4u at prodigy.net (rocks4u@prodigy.net) Date: Wed Apr 13 14:14:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Copper Sulfate (non)toxicity References: <200504132052.j3DKqlxW024868@outmx005.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: <05a001c5406d$033c8d00$8291fea9@WesMedion1918> Hi Rik! Well, I ate the same brownies sent along by Mom and I didn't have any problem. Perhaps the "Blue Crystals" were of a more pure concentration than usual or something but I know he became very ill very quickly after handling the crystals and then eating a brownie. It was amazing to see the amount of change as well as the severity of the illness. It lasted the rest of the day and he was OK the next day, only a little exhausted from his ordeal. Cheers! Wes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rik Dillen" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 1:52 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Copper Sulfate (non)toxicity > Hi Wes, > > I don't doubt your story for a second, and it's very sad it happened, but > I'm pretty convinced that he must have > swallowed accidentally more than some copper sulphate dust adhering on his > fingers. > Greetings, > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > Belgium > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>>> Belgian minerals >>>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>>> Exchange list > > MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Wed Apr 13 14:23:50 2005 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Wed Apr 13 14:23:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Copper Sulfate (non)toxicity In-Reply-To: <053401c54068$e3440770$8291fea9@WesMedion1918> References: <001d01c53f92$a1e2d620$21e6490c@jenscomputer> <081801c53f95$5428e390$6702a8c0@heathercomp> <08c601c53fa0$8fe82480$6702a8c0@heathercomp><6.2.1.2.2.20050412190010.028492f8@mail.spiritone.com> <425D5745.1040001@xs4all.nl> <053401c54068$e3440770$8291fea9@WesMedion1918> Message-ID: <425D8DE6.6050500@xs4all.nl> Which shows exactly what I wanted to point out. The danger is in the people's behavior and not in the chemicals. Be VERY happy that your son did not find a bag of strychnine. I agree with Rik that little copper should not have this effect. I'm no clinical toxicologist, but the symptoms sound a bit like intoxication of organophosphor compounds (parathion or phosdrin like stuff) You sure he did not touch any other cans? I end this off topic thread here :-) cheers, Maurice rocks4u@prodigy.net wrote: > Let me tell you a first hand experience with Copper Sulphate. My son > and I were cleaning out a garage of an Estate I had recently purchased > when he found a can full of pretty blue crystals. He handled them with > both hands (bare) not knowing what they were. A little later he eat a > brownie that Mom had sent along on the trip. Within 20 minutes he was > doubled up in noxious vomiting and dizziness. He was that way all the > way home from Prunedale, CA to our home, a distance of about 150 > miles, convulsing in dry heaves. There was only one explanation for > his sudden illness and I knew immediately what it was after I had > retraced his steps that morning. No one can convince me that Copper > Sulphate is non-toxic. End of story! > Wes > > ----- From kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca Wed Apr 13 14:32:03 2005 From: kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca (Kay Davis) Date: Wed Apr 13 14:31:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Copper Sulfate (non)toxicity In-Reply-To: <05a001c5406d$033c8d00$8291fea9@WesMedion1918> Message-ID: <200504132131.j3DLVhBm021717@cti06.citenet.net> Well as Axel mentioned Copper Sulfate was used as an Emetic (Which is a fancy way of saying it will make you throw up , and at that you will throw up pretty hard, complete with severe cramping). I suspect your son got a big enough dose based on his body weight to provoke it's medicinal aspect. In most things the medicinal dose is quite a bit lower than the toxic dose, which is a long winded way to say your son wasn't poisoned, but medicated. Kay PS Emetics are usually used to induce vomiting in the case of poisoning so has to get the poison out of the stomach as soon as possible and as completely as possible, so they are rough on the patient. I have often thought they server really 2 purposes 1- get the poison out 2- teach the person not to do it again..... -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of rocks4u@prodigy.net Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 5:09 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Copper Sulfate (non)toxicity Hi Rik! Well, I ate the same brownies sent along by Mom and I didn't have any problem. Perhaps the "Blue Crystals" were of a more pure concentration than usual or something but I know he became very ill very quickly after handling the crystals and then eating a brownie. It was amazing to see the amount of change as well as the severity of the illness. It lasted the rest of the day and he was OK the next day, only a little exhausted from his ordeal. Cheers! Wes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rik Dillen" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 1:52 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Copper Sulfate (non)toxicity > Hi Wes, > > I don't doubt your story for a second, and it's very sad it happened, > but I'm pretty convinced that he must have swallowed accidentally more > than some copper sulphate dust adhering on his fingers. > Greetings, > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail > rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>>> Belgian minerals >>>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>>> Exchange list > > MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Wed Apr 13 15:02:50 2005 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Wed Apr 13 15:02:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Growing Copper Geodes References: <000e01c5404a$7074fd80$10e5490c@jenscomputer> Message-ID: <001501c54074$892710f0$6501a8c0@GlennWimpee> Jennifer, Welcome to the list! Don't be afraid to post, you'll find a lot of knowledgeable people on this list willing to share what they have learned. You sure woke up the nodders! And gave most of us the impression you are from another country. Many of us in the good old USA have become quite defensive toward baseless attacks on us for our role in destroying the worlds ecology to satisfy our supposed greed. BTW, a copper sulfate solution is sold in most of the country as root killer for rural septic systems. This is so the systems work as intended with as little damage to the environment as possible. And please share some more of your geology experiments! We have a junior rockhound group in the local club and maybe we can use some of your experiments to share with them. They are really excited to learn more about geology, and, aren't we all? Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jennifer Parat" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 12:01 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Growing Copper Geodes Hello. Copper Sulfate is hazardous. Supervision is necessary. It is not a serious threat if it is spilled or swallowed. To Don... I attend University of Illinois at Chicago. The battle against the environment is necessary for all. My children will not be able to enjoy it. (I have yet to have kids...lol) To Bryan... If you need ideas for children, I'd be happy to lend a hand. lol. It's what they pay me to do. I work at the Adler Planetarium. It is my job to bring the "big" science ideas down to the children's level. We are constantly planning new projects and trips. Unfortunately, I have more activities that promotes astronomy instead of geology. I am from the United States. I study at University of Illinois at Chicago. You know what they say about somebody who assumes... lol. About my comment to the rockhounds... It really is not applicable to the environment. I'm sorry that my letter mislead you. Rock sites are destroyed. It is unfortunate. In fact, I think someone wrote "leave no rock behind." That is exactly what is happening to these sites. Nonetheless, I disagree about your comments about the environment. I know the European Union is trying very hard to restore their environment. Each country is different, but Sweden is fighting a strong battle. The US environment is in a bad state. We are lucky that we get to ship our garbage to third world countries (sarcasm). It keeps our land pristine. Best, Jennifer --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Wed Apr 13 15:04:25 2005 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Wed Apr 13 15:04:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] vibration insulation References: Message-ID: <001a01c54074$c1a4e380$6501a8c0@GlennWimpee> Try a piece of cusion vinyl floor covering. Lasts a lot longer than foam. Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol J. Bova" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 12:09 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] vibration insulation > Hi Folks.. > What do you use or recommend as a vibration/noise insulator to put under a > tumbler mounted to a cement block? I had a piece of some kind of foam pad > material back in L.A., and I can't remember where I found it, or what kind > it was. > Thanks much! > Carol > > Carol J. Bova > The Eclectic Lapidary > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com > > From roughrock at gmail.com Wed Apr 13 18:20:58 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Wed Apr 13 18:21:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] vibration insulation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I just go to the local carpet store and get a scrap from one of their carpet men. If the store provides installation the dumpster in the back of carpet stores is a gold mine. Grant On 4/13/05, Carol J. Bova wrote: > Hi Folks.. > What do you use or recommend as a vibration/noise insulator to put > under a tumbler mounted to a cement block? I had a piece of some kind > of foam pad material back in L.A., and I can't remember where I found > it, or what kind it was. > Thanks much! > Carol > > Carol J. Bova > The Eclectic Lapidary > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From curiogeo7 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 13 18:27:29 2005 From: curiogeo7 at yahoo.com (George Hall) Date: Wed Apr 13 18:27:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Enviromental stuff In-Reply-To: <425D6CEC.3090604@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: <20050414012729.78933.qmail@web50505.mail.yahoo.com> Richard, Ha, had to reply to you. I not only live in arizona,but am a "zonie",and a miner. The polution in AZ. is from "back east",People! you stated your opinion,Just like the other guy did. His tone was much nicer(My opinion),Fact I didnt like your tone,and I wonder whare your from? The area of the grand canyon was the standard for clean air,for years,take a look now. As far as waste dumps,and tailings,check out USGS,andUSFS,studys on "toxicity",metels,and chem. mobility models in the southwest(ie.AZ). fact and opinion. George --- Richard Trapp wrote: > well, it's always nice to have opinions, after all, > everybody has at > least one. > > opinions, however, no matter how much they try to be > glorified, are not > facts. I asked for facts. After all, many people are > of the opinion that > creationism is a valid concept. They don't have any > facts to back up > their opinions, but they can prattle on for hours, > weeks, months and > years "justifying" their views. > > The statement was not that there are more trees now > than 100 years ago, > the statement was that there are more trees now than > in the 1700's. > While it is true that some trees had been cut down > by then, I sincerely > doubt that the great forests of the east and > northern midwest had been > much affected by a population that was around > 275,000 in 1700, less than > 1,000,000 until 1750, and didn't break 5,000,000 > until 1800. > > So I know you stated that you "don't have time to > track down... the > numbers", but since that is the case, how can you > justify stating a > specific number like 90% ?? It's easy to pull > numbers out of your > wherever, but that doesn't make them valid. > > Also, it's very easy to argue using anecdotes like, > "When I was young we > used to have to walk ten miles in the snow to get to > school... and it > was uphill both ways". That's a favorite one of my > father. But anecdotes > are no match for actual facts. Once again, Bryan's > statement was that > the air and water is cleaner now than 100 years ago, > not 50 years ago. > 100 years ago this country was predominantly rural. > 50 years ago the > country was no longer predominantly rural. So I > don't see how your > personal experiences have anything to do with > Bryan's argument unless > you happen to be over 100 years old. > > Also, I appreciate you opinions about the aridity of > Arizona, but as a > matter of fact it does rain here. And toxins are not > relatively > immobile. Mining mostly takes place in the more > mountainous areas here, > which do receive more rain than the valleys. So what > happens when it > rains in the mountains on the abandoned mine sites? > The water carries > bad stuff away from the mines and guess where it > flows?? Why it flows > downhill. What a surprise! And what lies downhill > from the mines? Why > that's where all the people live and that's where > they get their water from. > > Unlike you, I do live in Arizona. I am also a > geologist, with a Master's > with emphasis on Mineral Exploration. So I guess my > opinion counts a > little more than yours... but it's still just an > opinion because I > didn't back it up with facts. > > Like I said, everybody has an opinion.... > > Now all this may seem like it has no relation to > Rockhounds, but in fact > it does. We often spin off here into discussions of > land use and damage > caused by mining activities, which really includes > the activities of > rockhounds in some places. And all the time we hear > people opining about > this and opining about that, which is fine... > > but opinions don't mean diddley squat unless they > are backed up by facts. > > I'm not saying this to diss you, J.R., I'm trying to > point out the > difference between opinions and facts. > > And people are certainly welcome to state their > opinions, but they > should identify their views as opinions, not as > facts. And I do give you > credit, J.R., you clearly stated that you didn't > have time to look up > the facts.... > > > > J. R. Hodel wrote: > > >Hi: > > > >I don't have time to track down and source the > current and historic numbers, but I firmly believe > that the remark about "more trees currently in the > US than 100 years ago" is completely accurate. > Partly this is because 100 years ago the great > eastern forests and much of the northern mid-western > forests had been clear-cut, and that small family > farms existed where now there are hill-sides covered > with second growth forests of quite large trees. > 90% of these family farms have returned to the > forest, after the topsoil hit the gulf of Mexico (or > Great Lakes, or Chesapeake Bay, etc). > > > >Additionally, there is a lot of reclamation of > abandoned mines, here in WV thousands of acres of > damaged land and dangerous conditions (shafts, > adits, high-walls, etc) are reclaimed or rendered > harmless. Backfilling high-walls, putting concrete > caps on shafts, burying open drift mouths or gateing > them so that people can't enter them, all this costs > money, and there is a fee per ton mined that funds > this AML work. > > > >The last time I collected minerals out west, we met > a nice guy in the Bonanza mining district of south > central Colorado, just a little south of Pancha > Springs. HE worked for the forest service, and was > in charge of a super-fund cleanup of the Rawley (not > sure of spelling at this point) mine, a giant > lead/silver/zinc mine which had filled a big hollow > up with tailings before being abandoned in the 70s > or 80s. They had a flexible pipe carrying the creek > over top of the tailings, so the heavy metals in the > waste wouldn't be dissolved in the Rock Mountain > Spring Water and delivered downstream to people in > Oklahoma, Texas and Arkansas for drinking water. > > > >When I was a boy in the 1950s and we would drive to > the Kanwha Valley in WV from our home town 60 miles > away, the industrial plant provided yellow acrid > air, a continuous 24-hour a day fog, and opaque > water that was dangerous to come in contact with. > Now people water ski on that river, and the air is > generally clear and odorless. So things have > improved, even if they aren't perfect. > > > >I will confess that in AZ and NM I have seen a lot > of abandoned mines and smelters with nary a sign of > any clean up, but it doesn't rain much there, so the > toxins (lead salts and other heavy metals) are > mainly non-mobile. With no transport available, the > fate-and-transport model offers the opportunity to > leave it alone until the sites with transport issues > have all been dealt with. > > > >So that's probably what's going on with abandoned > sites in Arizona and New Mexico. > > > >There are a lot of reincarnated forests back east, > though, where there was bare dirt farms a century > ago. > > > >JR in WV > > > > > >--------------------------------- > >Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources > site! > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > >--- > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Rick Trapp > Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey > rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov > === message truncated === __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Apr 13 18:39:35 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Apr 13 18:39:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] vibration insulation References: Message-ID: <425DC9CF.7DEA@Tomaszewski.net> Carol J. Bova wrote: > > Hi Folks.. > What do you use or recommend as a vibration/noise insulator to put > under a tumbler mounted to a cement block? I had a piece of some kind > of foam pad material back in L.A., and I can't remember where I found > it, or what kind it was. > Thanks much! > Carol > > Carol J. Bova > The Eclectic Lapidary > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com My tumbler sits on the basement floor in my boiler room with the furnace/boiler and hot water heater. I balance it (with a couple business cards under the feet on one end) so the barrels sit evenly on the rails and don't rub against either end. I keep the bearings oiled. Noise is not an issue for me because the boiler room was built to mask noise; I just shut the door. You might want to transfer the tumbler to a thick plywood or masonite mounting and give up the cement block. The wood will transmit much less sound than the block, and is also easier to isolate (but make the wood at least twice the width/depth of the block). Then you can use foam, felt, a folded blanket, a bed of egg carton bottoms, or whatever soft you have, and put the wooden base on it. If you need to put something over it, make sure it is BIG so it can get rid of the heat it will entrap. A cardboard box like they cover washing machines with for shipping would work. Kreigh From roughrock at gmail.com Wed Apr 13 18:47:53 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Wed Apr 13 18:47:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Growing Copper Geodes In-Reply-To: <001501c54074$892710f0$6501a8c0@GlennWimpee> References: <000e01c5404a$7074fd80$10e5490c@jenscomputer> <001501c54074$892710f0$6501a8c0@GlennWimpee> Message-ID: I've been in the forest and just because you see trees growing someplace that doesn't mean it is a forest. Tree farms grow trees a row crops. When trees are replanted they are usually a single speices. Calling that a forest is equivalent to calling a corn patch a prairie. I like that quote though. Most people are victim of propaganda because they don't question the people who work for the Forest Service. Foresters are mostly tree farmers. They figure out how many trees there are by counting the number of rows and multiplying by the number of trees in the row. It looks green from the highway and looks green from the air so it must be a forest. Unfortunately, critters who live in real forest need diversity. Grant On 4/12/05, Dan Z wrote: > Before flaming or doubting the poster, you might check the facts > yourself.... > Forests: > There are 737 million acres of forest land in the U.S. > About one-third of the United States is covered by forests. > More trees are grown through replanting and natural regeneration than are > harvested in the U.S. each year. > __ > Today the world is the victim of propaganda because people are not > intellectually competent. More than anything the United States needs > effective thinkers competent to do their own thinking. > -William Mather Lewis > On 4/13/05, Glenn Wimpee wrote: > Jennifer, > > Welcome to the list! > > Don't be afraid to post, you'll find a lot of knowledgeable people on this > list willing to share what they have learned. > > You sure woke up the nodders! > > And gave most of us the impression you are from another country. > > Many of us in the good old USA have become quite defensive toward baseless > attacks on us for our role in destroying the worlds ecology to satisfy our > supposed greed. > > BTW, a copper sulfate solution is sold in most of the country as root killer > for rural septic systems. This is so the systems work as intended with as > little damage to the environment as possible. > > And please share some more of your geology experiments! We have a junior > rockhound group in the local club and maybe we can use some of your > experiments to share with them. They are really excited to learn more about > geology, and, aren't we all? > > Glenn > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jennifer Parat" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 12:01 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Growing Copper Geodes > > Hello. > > Copper Sulfate is hazardous. Supervision is necessary. It is not a serious > threat if it is spilled or swallowed. > > To Don... > > I attend University of Illinois at Chicago. The battle against the > environment is necessary for all. My children will not be able to enjoy it. > (I have yet to have kids...lol) > > To Bryan... > > If you need ideas for children, I'd be happy to lend a hand. lol. It's what > they pay me to do. I work at the Adler Planetarium. It is my job to bring > the "big" science ideas down to the children's level. We are constantly > planning new projects and trips. Unfortunately, I have more activities that > promotes astronomy instead of geology. > > I am from the United States. I study at University of Illinois at Chicago. > You know what they say about somebody who assumes... lol. > > About my comment to the rockhounds... It really is not applicable to the > environment. I'm sorry that my letter mislead you. Rock sites are destroyed. > It is unfortunate. In fact, I think someone wrote "leave no rock behind." > That is exactly what is happening to these sites. > > Nonetheless, I disagree about your comments about the environment. I know > the European Union is trying very hard to restore their environment. Each > country is different, but Sweden is fighting a strong battle. > > The US environment is in a bad state. We are lucky that we get to ship our > garbage to third world countries (sarcasm). It keeps our land pristine. > > Best, > > Jennifer > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From tfa at brickengraver.com Wed Apr 13 19:17:35 2005 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Wed Apr 13 19:17:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Copper Sulfate (non)toxicity In-Reply-To: <05a001c5406d$033c8d00$8291fea9@WesMedion1918> Message-ID: <20050414021716.GVKA4801.imta01a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> Kind of getting in at the end of this concentration but CuSO4 is a toxic material. A quick search for MSDS shows that Toxicology Harmful by inhalation or ingestion. Dust may ulcerate membranes. Prolonged exposure may cause dermatitis. Possible irritant. No UK exposure limit (as at 13.8.01) Toxicity data (The meaning of any abbreviations which appear in this section is given here.) ORL-RAT LD50 300 mg kg-1 IVN-RBT LD50 10 mg kg-1 Where Orally given to a rat 50% death occurred when amount was 30 milligrams/kilogram of weight of rat. When intravenously given to Rabbit, 50% death occurred when 10 milligrams/kilogram of weight of rabbit Ingestion: Toxic. Acute exposure-ingestion of a toxic dose of copper sulfate may cause salivation, nausea, vomiting, gastric pain, and local corrosion of hemorrhages. Other symptoms of systematic intoxification include blue discoloration of the gums and tongue. Hemolytic anemia, colic and diarrhea with bloody stools. In severe cases of poisoning, liver and kidney damage with severe anemia may occur with possible somnolence and coma. Death may occur from circulatory failure. Two men who ingested 60 and 80g in solution died in 6 and 9 days, respectively. The minimal lethal oral dose for an adult appears to be 10g. http://www.iri-us.com/msds/copper.html Now I am not saying that it is too toxic to use--just use proper precautions--wear a good dust and definitely do not ingest or inhale. It is extremely toxic to fish and aquatic plant life. We use it for algae control in our resevoir but always at less that 4 parts per million (copper), anything much higher kills the fish as well as algae and makes the raw water exceed the Maximum Contaminant Level for drinking water. And do not flush down toilet or dump into stream. If flushed down the toilet in large amounts will definitely kill the bugs in the sewer plant and if in a stream will kill fish and plant life. Tommy Armstrong -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of rocks4u@prodigy.net Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 5:09 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Copper Sulfate (non)toxicity Hi Rik! Well, I ate the same brownies sent along by Mom and I didn't have any problem. Perhaps the "Blue Crystals" were of a more pure concentration than usual or something but I know he became very ill very quickly after handling the crystals and then eating a brownie. It was amazing to see the amount of change as well as the severity of the illness. It lasted the rest of the day and he was OK the next day, only a little exhausted from his ordeal. Cheers! Wes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rik Dillen" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 1:52 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Copper Sulfate (non)toxicity > Hi Wes, > > I don't doubt your story for a second, and it's very sad it happened, > but I'm pretty convinced that he must have swallowed accidentally more > than some copper sulphate dust adhering on his fingers. > Greetings, > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail > rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>>> Belgian minerals >>>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>>> Exchange list > > MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov Wed Apr 13 19:20:34 2005 From: rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov (Richard Trapp) Date: Wed Apr 13 19:21:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Enviromental stuff In-Reply-To: <20050414012729.78933.qmail@web50505.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050414012729.78933.qmail@web50505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <425DD372.7050503@azgs.az.gov> George, Ha, had to reply to you as well. As I stated in my message I live and work in Arizona. I, too, am a "zonie". I didn't say a word about pollution. I was talking about toxic metals migrating from mining areas. If you truly live in Arizona and if you are truly a miner, then obviously you've seen instances of minerals migrating in the water flowing out of mining areas. What, you've never seen one of those lovely turquoise-colored streams issuing directly from a mine adit??? If you haven't then you haven't seen many mines in Arizona. Never seen those lovely pools of turquoise or even black water at the bottom of an open pit? Think that water just sits there forever??? All I did was ask for what facts these people were basing their statements on. I didn't accuse them of lying or anything else. If you didn't like my tone, then I'm sorry if it offended you. But as long as we're into it, where are the facts that you are basing your statements upon? "The polution in AZ. is from "back east",People!" That's an opinion, not a fact. It is well known where the air pollution in the Grand Canyon comes from: Los Angeles and Las Vegas, that would be to the west, not "back east". You see, I am of the opinion that opinions should be clearly labeled as such. I didn't ask for any information on waste dumps, tailings or anything of the sort. The gentleman was stating that there are more forests now than there were 200-300 years ago and that the air and the water now is cleaner than it was 100 years ago. If someone wants to throw out that kind of a statement they should either acknowledge that it is an opinion or be prepared to back it up with facts. Otherwise, we're all just sitting here screaming at each other like those stupid idiots on the "news" channels on TV. George Hall wrote: >Richard, > Ha, had to reply to you. > I not only live in arizona,but am a "zonie",and a >miner. > The polution in AZ. is from "back east",People! > you stated your opinion,Just like the other guy >did. > His tone was much nicer(My opinion),Fact I didnt >like your tone,and I wonder whare your from? > The area of the grand canyon was the standard for >clean air,for years,take a look now. > As far as waste dumps,and tailings,check out >USGS,andUSFS,studys on "toxicity",metels,and chem. >mobility models in the southwest(ie.AZ). > fact and opinion. > George > >--- Richard Trapp wrote: > > > >>well, it's always nice to have opinions, after all, >>everybody has at >>least one. >> >>opinions, however, no matter how much they try to be >>glorified, are not >>facts. I asked for facts. After all, many people are >>of the opinion that >>creationism is a valid concept. They don't have any >>facts to back up >>their opinions, but they can prattle on for hours, >>weeks, months and >>years "justifying" their views. >> >>The statement was not that there are more trees now >>than 100 years ago, >>the statement was that there are more trees now than >>in the 1700's. >>While it is true that some trees had been cut down >>by then, I sincerely >>doubt that the great forests of the east and >>northern midwest had been >>much affected by a population that was around >>275,000 in 1700, less than >>1,000,000 until 1750, and didn't break 5,000,000 >>until 1800. >> >>So I know you stated that you "don't have time to >>track down... the >>numbers", but since that is the case, how can you >>justify stating a >>specific number like 90% ?? It's easy to pull >>numbers out of your >>wherever, but that doesn't make them valid. >> >>Also, it's very easy to argue using anecdotes like, >>"When I was young we >>used to have to walk ten miles in the snow to get to >>school... and it >>was uphill both ways". That's a favorite one of my >>father. But anecdotes >>are no match for actual facts. Once again, Bryan's >>statement was that >>the air and water is cleaner now than 100 years ago, >>not 50 years ago. >>100 years ago this country was predominantly rural. >>50 years ago the >>country was no longer predominantly rural. So I >>don't see how your >>personal experiences have anything to do with >>Bryan's argument unless >>you happen to be over 100 years old. >> >>Also, I appreciate you opinions about the aridity of >>Arizona, but as a >>matter of fact it does rain here. And toxins are not >>relatively >>immobile. Mining mostly takes place in the more >>mountainous areas here, >>which do receive more rain than the valleys. So what >> happens when it >>rains in the mountains on the abandoned mine sites? >>The water carries >>bad stuff away from the mines and guess where it >>flows?? Why it flows >>downhill. What a surprise! And what lies downhill >>from the mines? Why >>that's where all the people live and that's where >>they get their water from. >> >>Unlike you, I do live in Arizona. I am also a >>geologist, with a Master's >>with emphasis on Mineral Exploration. So I guess my >>opinion counts a >>little more than yours... but it's still just an >>opinion because I >>didn't back it up with facts. >> >>Like I said, everybody has an opinion.... >> >>Now all this may seem like it has no relation to >>Rockhounds, but in fact >>it does. We often spin off here into discussions of >>land use and damage >>caused by mining activities, which really includes >>the activities of >>rockhounds in some places. And all the time we hear >>people opining about >>this and opining about that, which is fine... >> >>but opinions don't mean diddley squat unless they >>are backed up by facts. >> >>I'm not saying this to diss you, J.R., I'm trying to >>point out the >>difference between opinions and facts. >> >>And people are certainly welcome to state their >>opinions, but they >>should identify their views as opinions, not as >>facts. And I do give you >>credit, J.R., you clearly stated that you didn't >>have time to look up >>the facts.... >> >> >> >>J. R. Hodel wrote: >> >> >> >>>Hi: >>> >>>I don't have time to track down and source the >>> >>> >>current and historic numbers, but I firmly believe >>that the remark about "more trees currently in the >>US than 100 years ago" is completely accurate. >>Partly this is because 100 years ago the great >>eastern forests and much of the northern mid-western >>forests had been clear-cut, and that small family >>farms existed where now there are hill-sides covered >>with second growth forests of quite large trees. >>90% of these family farms have returned to the >>forest, after the topsoil hit the gulf of Mexico (or >>Great Lakes, or Chesapeake Bay, etc). >> >> >>>Additionally, there is a lot of reclamation of >>> >>> >>abandoned mines, here in WV thousands of acres of >>damaged land and dangerous conditions (shafts, >>adits, high-walls, etc) are reclaimed or rendered >>harmless. Backfilling high-walls, putting concrete >>caps on shafts, burying open drift mouths or gateing >>them so that people can't enter them, all this costs >>money, and there is a fee per ton mined that funds >>this AML work. >> >> >>>The last time I collected minerals out west, we met >>> >>> >>a nice guy in the Bonanza mining district of south >>central Colorado, just a little south of Pancha >>Springs. HE worked for the forest service, and was >>in charge of a super-fund cleanup of the Rawley (not >>sure of spelling at this point) mine, a giant >>lead/silver/zinc mine which had filled a big hollow >>up with tailings before being abandoned in the 70s >>or 80s. They had a flexible pipe carrying the creek >>over top of the tailings, so the heavy metals in the >>waste wouldn't be dissolved in the Rock Mountain >>Spring Water and delivered downstream to people in >>Oklahoma, Texas and Arkansas for drinking water. >> >> >>>When I was a boy in the 1950s and we would drive to >>> >>> >>the Kanwha Valley in WV from our home town 60 miles >>away, the industrial plant provided yellow acrid >>air, a continuous 24-hour a day fog, and opaque >>water that was dangerous to come in contact with. >>Now people water ski on that river, and the air is >>generally clear and odorless. So things have >>improved, even if they aren't perfect. >> >> >>>I will confess that in AZ and NM I have seen a lot >>> >>> >>of abandoned mines and smelters with nary a sign of >>any clean up, but it doesn't rain much there, so the >>toxins (lead salts and other heavy metals) are >>mainly non-mobile. With no transport available, the >>fate-and-transport model offers the opportunity to >>leave it alone until the sites with transport issues >>have all been dealt with. >> >> >>>So that's probably what's going on with abandoned >>> >>> >>sites in Arizona and New Mexico. >> >> >>>There are a lot of reincarnated forests back east, >>> >>> >>though, where there was bare dirt farms a century >>ago. >> >> >>>JR in WV >>> >>> >>>--------------------------------- >>>Do you Yahoo!? >>>Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources >>> >>> >>site! >> >> >>>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>>multipart/alternative >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) >>> text/html >>>--- >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>>Subscription Services: >>> >>> >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>Rick Trapp >>Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey >>rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov >> >> >> >=== message truncated === > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! >http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > -- Rick Trapp Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From roughrock at gmail.com Wed Apr 13 19:31:58 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Wed Apr 13 19:32:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: San Antonio, Texas In-Reply-To: <524F8012.02BF90CB.00054D98@aol.com> References: <524F8012.02BF90CB.00054D98@aol.com> Message-ID: On 4/12/05, TomE61@aol.com wrote: > If you take a short trip to Bandera (Bandera County), along Route 16, the cowboy capital of the world, any road cut along that road will yield exciting specimens of agate, jasper, flint, etc. And the locals are very knowledgeable and the police encourage you to stop and collect. Tom, Bandera totally slipped my mind. I found a nice piece of flint in the landscaping outside the museum. It is a very common rock around there. And the people and police are very nice. I must warn you about one thing. If you don't like country music don't go in a bar anywhere near Bandera. And don't drive down that little Main Street on Saturday night. They like it loud in Bandera. Grant From kahako at verizon.net Wed Apr 13 19:34:02 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Apr 13 19:34:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Enviromental stuff---Enough, please In-Reply-To: <425DD372.7050503@azgs.az.gov> References: <20050414012729.78933.qmail@web50505.mail.yahoo.com> <425DD372.7050503@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050413163122.0417c748@incoming.verizon.net> A lot of this discussion has been interesting, but can we please drop the bits that are starting to be mean...and get back to rockhounding? Aloha, Kitty At 04:20 PM 4/13/2005, you wrote: >George, > >Ha, had to reply to you as well. > >As I stated in my message I live and work in Arizona. I, too, am a "zonie". > >I didn't say a word about pollution. I was talking about toxic metals >migrating from mining areas. If you truly live in Arizona and if you are >truly a miner, then obviously you've seen instances of minerals migrating >in the water flowing out of mining areas. What, you've never seen one of >those lovely turquoise-colored streams issuing directly from a mine >adit??? If you haven't then you haven't seen many mines in Arizona. Never >seen those lovely pools of turquoise or even black water at the bottom of >an open pit? Think that water just sits there forever??? > >All I did was ask for what facts these people were basing their statements >on. I didn't accuse them of lying or anything else. If you didn't like my >tone, then I'm sorry if it offended you. But as long as we're into it, >where are the facts that you are basing your statements upon? > >"The polution in AZ. is from "back east",People!" > > >That's an opinion, not a fact. > >It is well known where the air pollution in the Grand Canyon comes from: >Los Angeles and Las Vegas, that would be to the west, not "back east". > >You see, I am of the opinion that opinions should be clearly labeled as >such. I didn't ask for any information on waste dumps, tailings or >anything of the sort. The gentleman was stating that there are more >forests now than there were 200-300 years ago and that the air and the >water now is cleaner than it was 100 years ago. If someone wants to throw >out that kind of a statement they should either acknowledge that it is an >opinion or be prepared to back it up with facts. > >Otherwise, we're all just sitting here screaming at each other like those >stupid idiots on the "news" channels on TV. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >George Hall wrote: > >>Richard, >>Ha, had to reply to you. >> I not only live in arizona,but am a "zonie",and a >>miner. >> The polution in AZ. is from "back east",People! >> you stated your opinion,Just like the other guy >>did. >> His tone was much nicer(My opinion),Fact I didnt >>like your tone,and I wonder whare your from? >> The area of the grand canyon was the standard for >>clean air,for years,take a look now. >> As far as waste dumps,and tailings,check out >>USGS,andUSFS,studys on "toxicity",metels,and chem. >>mobility models in the southwest(ie.AZ). >> fact and opinion. >>George >> >>--- Richard Trapp wrote: >> >> >> >>>well, it's always nice to have opinions, after all, >>>everybody has at least one. >>> >>>opinions, however, no matter how much they try to be >>>glorified, are not facts. I asked for facts. After all, many people are >>>of the opinion that creationism is a valid concept. They don't have any >>>facts to back up their opinions, but they can prattle on for hours, >>>weeks, months and years "justifying" their views. >>> >>>The statement was not that there are more trees now >>>than 100 years ago, the statement was that there are more trees now than >>>in the 1700's. >>>While it is true that some trees had been cut down >>>by then, I sincerely doubt that the great forests of the east and >>>northern midwest had been much affected by a population that was around >>>275,000 in 1700, less than 1,000,000 until 1750, and didn't break 5,000,000 >>>until 1800. >>> >>>So I know you stated that you "don't have time to >>>track down... the numbers", but since that is the case, how can you >>>justify stating a specific number like 90% ?? It's easy to pull >>>numbers out of your wherever, but that doesn't make them valid. >>> >>>Also, it's very easy to argue using anecdotes like, >>>"When I was young we used to have to walk ten miles in the snow to get to >>>school... and it was uphill both ways". That's a favorite one of my >>>father. But anecdotes are no match for actual facts. Once again, Bryan's >>>statement was that the air and water is cleaner now than 100 years ago, >>>not 50 years ago. 100 years ago this country was predominantly rural. >>>50 years ago the country was no longer predominantly rural. So I >>>don't see how your personal experiences have anything to do with >>>Bryan's argument unless you happen to be over 100 years old. >>> >>>Also, I appreciate you opinions about the aridity of >>>Arizona, but as a matter of fact it does rain here. And toxins are not >>>relatively immobile. Mining mostly takes place in the more >>>mountainous areas here, which do receive more rain than the valleys. So what >>>happens when it rains in the mountains on the abandoned mine sites? >>>The water carries bad stuff away from the mines and guess where it >>>flows?? Why it flows downhill. What a surprise! And what lies downhill >>>from the mines? Why that's where all the people live and that's where >>>they get their water from. >>> >>>Unlike you, I do live in Arizona. I am also a >>>geologist, with a Master's with emphasis on Mineral Exploration. So I >>>guess my >>>opinion counts a little more than yours... but it's still just an >>>opinion because I didn't back it up with facts. >>> >>>Like I said, everybody has an opinion.... >>> >>>Now all this may seem like it has no relation to >>>Rockhounds, but in fact it does. We often spin off here into discussions of >>>land use and damage caused by mining activities, which really includes >>>the activities of rockhounds in some places. And all the time we hear >>>people opining about this and opining about that, which is fine... >>> >>>but opinions don't mean diddley squat unless they >>>are backed up by facts. >>> >>>I'm not saying this to diss you, J.R., I'm trying to >>>point out the difference between opinions and facts. >>> >>>And people are certainly welcome to state their >>>opinions, but they should identify their views as opinions, not as >>>facts. And I do give you credit, J.R., you clearly stated that you didn't >>>have time to look up the facts.... >>> >>> >>> >>>J. R. Hodel wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Hi: >>>> >>>>I don't have time to track down and source the >>>> >>>current and historic numbers, but I firmly believe >>>that the remark about "more trees currently in the >>>US than 100 years ago" is completely accurate. Partly this is because >>>100 years ago the great >>>eastern forests and much of the northern mid-western >>>forests had been clear-cut, and that small family >>>farms existed where now there are hill-sides covered >>>with second growth forests of quite large trees. 90% of these family >>>farms have returned to the >>>forest, after the topsoil hit the gulf of Mexico (or >>>Great Lakes, or Chesapeake Bay, etc). >>> >>> >>>>Additionally, there is a lot of reclamation of >>>> >>>abandoned mines, here in WV thousands of acres of >>>damaged land and dangerous conditions (shafts, >>>adits, high-walls, etc) are reclaimed or rendered >>>harmless. Backfilling high-walls, putting concrete >>>caps on shafts, burying open drift mouths or gateing >>>them so that people can't enter them, all this costs >>>money, and there is a fee per ton mined that funds >>>this AML work. >>> >>> >>>>The last time I collected minerals out west, we met >>>> >>>a nice guy in the Bonanza mining district of south >>>central Colorado, just a little south of Pancha >>>Springs. HE worked for the forest service, and was >>>in charge of a super-fund cleanup of the Rawley (not >>>sure of spelling at this point) mine, a giant >>>lead/silver/zinc mine which had filled a big hollow >>>up with tailings before being abandoned in the 70s >>>or 80s. They had a flexible pipe carrying the creek >>>over top of the tailings, so the heavy metals in the >>>waste wouldn't be dissolved in the Rock Mountain >>>Spring Water and delivered downstream to people in >>>Oklahoma, Texas and Arkansas for drinking water. >>> >>> >>>>When I was a boy in the 1950s and we would drive to >>>> >>>the Kanwha Valley in WV from our home town 60 miles >>>away, the industrial plant provided yellow acrid >>>air, a continuous 24-hour a day fog, and opaque >>>water that was dangerous to come in contact with. Now people water ski >>>on that river, and the air is >>>generally clear and odorless. So things have >>>improved, even if they aren't perfect. >>> >>> >>>>I will confess that in AZ and NM I have seen a lot >>>> >>>of abandoned mines and smelters with nary a sign of >>>any clean up, but it doesn't rain much there, so the >>>toxins (lead salts and other heavy metals) are >>>mainly non-mobile. With no transport available, the >>>fate-and-transport model offers the opportunity to >>>leave it alone until the sites with transport issues >>>have all been dealt with. >>> >>> >>>>So that's probably what's going on with abandoned >>>> >>>sites in Arizona and New Mexico. >>> >>> >>>>There are a lot of reincarnated forests back east, >>>> >>>though, where there was bare dirt farms a century >>>ago. >>> >>> >>>>JR in WV >>>> >>>> >>>>--------------------------------- >>>>Do you Yahoo!? >>>>Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources >>>> >>>site! >>> >>>>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>>>multipart/alternative >>>>text/plain (text body -- kept) >>>>text/html >>>>--- >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>>>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>>>Subscription Services: >>>> >>>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>-- Rick Trapp >>>Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey >>>rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov >>> >>> >>=== message truncated === >> >> >> >> >>__________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - >>Try our new resources site! >>http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >> > >-- >Rick Trapp >Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey >rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From albalmer at att.net Wed Apr 13 19:42:29 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Apr 13 19:42:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Enviromental stuff In-Reply-To: <425DD372.7050503@azgs.az.gov> References: <20050414012729.78933.qmail@web50505.mail.yahoo.com> <425DD372.7050503@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: <425DD895.9070300@att.net> Richard Trapp wrote: > George, > > Ha, had to reply to you as well. > > As I stated in my message I live and work in Arizona. I, too, am a > "zonie". > This Arizona resident thinks that there must be a more appropriate place for you guys to argue. So far, I have no filters on this mailing list, and I'd like to keep it that way. From geenet2 at mchsi.com Wed Apr 13 20:20:05 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Wed Apr 13 20:20:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Growing Copper Geodes References: <000e01c5404a$7074fd80$10e5490c@jenscomputer> <8C70E6BDE9FFCCF-1B4-29FE3@mblk-r24.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <004f01c540a0$da7bd220$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> I guess I lived dangerously as a kid. After reading my big sister's Chemistry book and being fascinated by chemical reactions. I took it upon myself to do one of the experiments in the book, then took it a step further. I got a jar of silver nitrate from our druggist and dissolved it in a jar of water. Then dropped all kinds of copper things like pennies and copper wire twisted into shapes into the jar. Then watched the pretty silver "crystals" grow on the copper. (I know they wern't crystals....don't need a lecture there.) This jar sat around in my room for a while until the copper was pretty much used up and all the silver precipitate has settled on the bottom. So then I get the bright idea to turn my silver, (not very pretty grey powder now) into the real thing. Got my big brother's acetylene torch out, and....a crucible (sister's...she was a Chemistry Major, just happened to bring home a crucible from college) and fired that sucker up and melted the powder into a nugget of silver which I still have to this day. That was about 40 years ago. Oh, but I wasn't thru yet...I had poured off all the now copper nitrate and strained it to get all the silver, so I had something new to play with... I went about the house looking for things that would still react with the copper nitrate. Don't remember what the chlorine bleach did, if anything, but ammonia made the neatest "snow storm" of white precipitate. So kewl! Now all you nervous nellies out there, tell me how many times I came close to killing myself with my chemistry experiments. :-) Oh, duh....I knew not to breathe directly over my concoctions, nor drink, taste, or stick my finger in, nor get it in my eyes....and I washed my hands afterward. Lived to tell about it, too. I've often wanted to repeat my experiment to show my own kids, but it's harder to get silver nitrate crystals now. BTW Copper sulfate WILL kill fish usually at around 3 ppm. Marine invertebrates OD at 1 ppm or less. I spent 15 years in the aquatic pet trade, and copper sulfate was the treatment of choice for treating parasites until safer methods came along. At one store I worked at, the OWNER decided to medicate a full system of fish with Copper sulfate at the Formalin-Malachite dosage because she confused the two bottles. Almost anything is toxic at a high enough dose. Eat enough carrots and you'll OD on Vit A. Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 1:15 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Growing Copper Geodes > While I have no real qualms about using copper sulfate in this context > (with supervision), as a person with a chemical background, I also believe > that there is little point using a more hazardous substance when a less > hazardous one will do the job. To that end I might substitute alum for > copper sulfate. As a child I grew some great alum crystals. Alum (aluminum > sulfate) is cheap and easy to use in this context. It is less likely to > stain (copper sulfate will stain your skin for awhile... I've done it) and > a lot less toxic. Nonetheless, nothing is totally non-toxic and human > deaths have been reported from eating 30 grams of the material. Since alum > tastes awful.... again from personal experience.... I cannot imagine any > sane person willingly eating 30 grams of the stuff. UGH!! > > At any rate, except for the color, alum will make great geodes. The Rat LD > 50 is over 6000 mg/kg moving it into a much lower toxicity class. > > As a child I also doped this with a little chrome alum to make pretty > purple crystals. It does not take much. HOWEVER, since chrome alum > contains chromium and there are issues with chrome salts, I would not > recommend this be used. Note that the chrome here is chrome 3 not chrome > 6, but there is so much controversy over chromium in general that there is > no point opening this can of worms. > > For that matter sugar with food coloring would also work, I suspect. > Except it would attract ants. > > Gene Hartstein > Newark, DE > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jennifer Parat > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Sent: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 12:01:29 -0500 > Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Growing Copper Geodes > > > Hello. > > Copper Sulfate is hazardous. Supervision is necessary. It is not a serious > threat if it is spilled or swallowed. > > To Don... > From rockcurrier at cs.com Wed Apr 13 23:18:05 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Wed Apr 13 23:14:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Copper sulfate, acids, asbestos etc. References: <200504140102.j3E12di5021846@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <00d601c540b9$b92b5780$2eeaa5d8@rock5> The dangers of copper sulfate, acids, asbestos etc. I have been reluctant to involve myself in the debate over the dangers of this or that cleaning chemical but think in most cases the fear of chemicals and contamination is greatly over rated. Before I got interested in minerals I worked for ten years mixing large and small batches of chemical reagents for use in clinical laboratories and handled quantities of all of the acids and chemicals that have been discussed here, far more than are used in many research laboratories by several orders of magnitude. A lot of the concern that I read about relating to chemicals seems absurd. But it seems that people love to push the fear button. It seems to fulfill some need in their life. Certainly the trial lawyers love to push the button and have successfully to the tune of millions or even billions? of dollars. Hollywood has cashed in on pushing the fear of chemicals as well. I hate to say it, but perhaps all the hysteria may be necessary to get people up off their butts and learn about what is dangerous and what is not and to do something about the real dangers. There are indeed very valid environmental concerns but most of the problem has been that we just did not/do not know enough to put the dangers in perspective. But if we have the money, why not error on the side of safety? Pass waste water contamination limits that are so stringent that you can't dump salt water aquarium water down the drain. One of our local communities here in Los Angeles has such stringent standards that it was pointed out to them that the drinking water coming out of the drinking fountains in city hall during some months of the year could be drunk but not legally allowed to go down the drain because of the high concentration of minerals present. Pass "asbestos" concentration in air standards so strict that the concentration of "asbestos" in the air outside of some schools is greater than the air inside the school. You could fill up volumes of similar knee jerk panic button pushing. Fear of possible law suits will cause people to do amazing things. The only limit is how much money is available to do them with. It would probably surprise many list members to know that only now is an attempt being made (in this case by the USGS in Denver) to accurately characterize which kinds of "asbestos" are dangerous, and how dangerous. The current standard just specifies a width and length ratio of fiber but does not specify any particular mineral. So far they have found that even the various kinds of asbestos samples available as ASTM standards are really a mixtures of minerals. In part, the research is being driven by the big class action suit against the company in Libby Montana that was producing vermiculite and incidentally enough "asbestos" dust to kill some of the good citizens of that town. Of course they are out of business now. This was a real health hazard. Representatives from the USGS have testified in the case and the prosecution lawyers have in effect been told that the court holds the scientific testimony to be valid and they can't dispute it. Perhaps a small victory for reason. Of course it may be a number of years before all the appeals have been concluded. But the work goes on including the emersion and agitation of well characterized "asbestos" minerals in synthetic lung fluid at body temperature to see if that will yield some knowledge about the hazards of various fibrous minerals. They have also received samples of erionite rich rock from Turkey? where people live in caves carved from the rock and also have a high rate of lung impairment, apparently from this mineral. There is so much to learn. It is too bad we can't spend all the foolishly wasted money really learning about our problems rather than wasting it on measurers that are driven by fear and half baked research rather than by hard research and reason. If we think we have pollution, visit China or India. The air pollution in China is possibly the worst in the world, certainly in the cities; and they love to smoke a lot too. I have not read any statistics on deaths from lung disease and think the Chinese government does not want to really know about them and certainly not publicize them. This will probably change if they ever get freedom of the press like we do here. Each year thousands of Chinese die in mine accidents but if the Chinese government would crack down to the extent that the government agencies do here in the USA, the mining industry would have to be shut down entirely I think. Most of the smaller factories would also be in the same situation. I was visiting a small lapidary factory (20 or 30 people) in Daye in Hubei State in China that was making beads and small objects from blocks of locally plasticised malachite and azurite. There was enough malachite/azurite dust in the air to cause me to start coughing immediately. The workers seems to have acclimatized themselves to it but I am sure it will cause them health problems in the long run. They could not afford to quit. We are living in a fools paradise here in the USA and I admit that I enjoy it. Most of the rest of the world will pay the price in shorter life spans. The only reason the Chinese will not rule the world in 100 years is that they may poison themselves first. All of the above is one of my favorite rants, but I could be wrong. Rock From DicksWi at northville.k12.mi.us Thu Apr 14 04:29:45 2005 From: DicksWi at northville.k12.mi.us (William Dicks) Date: Thu Apr 14 04:30:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Copper Sulfate (non)toxicity Message-ID: Bill Dicks MESTA Board Member There is a SCUBA diving Geologist who measures coral reef structures. He only works summers to avoid fridgid Winter cold periods. You might call him a .... Frost-Free Reef Ridge Rator >>> mauricedegraaf@xs4all.nl 04/13/05 01:30PM >>> Ahhh there we are again the ever returning topic of toxicity. We already had oxalic acid and minerals in general in that chapter and now copper sulfate. snip.................... This thread has some useful information. Thank you all. >From a classroom teachers perspective I'd like to add................. In our progression from atoms to minerals to rocks we include a lab investigation on crystal shapes. This is a high school freshman level Earth Science course (!4-15 year olds) In addition to five crystals made/provided by the teacher, students are instructed in how to make their own copper sulfate crystals. Students are taught that you "NEVER eat your experiments" and, for various and often repeated safety reasons, to "keep hands away from your face".... The crystal lab directions warn only to "put on safety goggles" and to "wash your hands when done". We have been doing this investigation for a least 15 years without incident and the students are thrilled by what THEY have made I like the idea of a copper sulfate eggshell "geode". It will add to the students interest. Think I'll try it with the kids next year. From bassmeister_2000 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 14 10:44:30 2005 From: bassmeister_2000 at yahoo.com (Joe Mulvey) Date: Thu Apr 14 10:44:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Brownie Project Message-ID: <20050414174430.8060.qmail@web20023.mail.yahoo.com> I wanted to say thank you to the list as a whole for contributions of minerals to my daughter's Brownie Troop. If you sent me something, you will be seeing something very soon. The event is May 2. I have painted 15 cigar boxes for storage and each girl's name is on the cover. I picked up some very nice 2"-3" geodes through ebay. I dropped one as I was unpacking. It split perfectly in half with a beautiful crystal-lined cavity. There are mostly local minerals and some very cool stuff from members of this list Thank you again, Joe Joe Mulvey Nashua, NH -- USA http://www.lostandfoundproject.com http://home.comcast.net/~mgag1 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ From Jg81638 at aol.com Thu Apr 14 12:24:17 2005 From: Jg81638 at aol.com (Jg81638@aol.com) Date: Thu Apr 14 12:24:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Morefield Mine - copper crystals Message-ID: <6b.43448e0e.2f901d61@aol.com> I don't know if this is any use to James Rollins but way back in my youth (40+ years b'god!!) I played around with growing crystals in silica gel and one of the experiments I did then was to react copper sulphate with a reducing agent (I used hydroxylamine hydrochloride because that was what I had available in the lab where I was working at the time and also to avoid any messy by-products that might mess up the result) and what I got in the gel was what appeared to be filaments of copper crystals. I didn't pursue the matter much further than that but I imagine that one could grow something quite spectacular if you did. If you are interested you could look around and see if you can find the following book: "Crystal Growth in Gels" by Heinz K. Henisch, Pennsylvania State University Press 1970 Library of Congress Catalogue Card Number 77-86379 I always promised myself that I get back to those experiments one day, but then there are lots of other projects like that on my back shelf! Jim Groves _jg81638@aol.com_ (mailto:jg81638@aol.com) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From morningstar at att.net Thu Apr 14 12:49:49 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Thu Apr 14 12:46:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Morefield Mine - copper crystals In-Reply-To: <6b.43448e0e.2f901d61@aol.com> References: <6b.43448e0e.2f901d61@aol.com> Message-ID: <425EC95D.9090406@att.net> Jg81638@aol.com wrote: > If you are interested you could look around and see if you can > find the following book: > > "Crystal Growth in Gels" by Heinz K. Henisch, Pennsylvania State University > Press 1970 > Library of Congress Catalogue Card Number 77-86379 I looked up, and it was on the shelf over my computer. However, the recipe he offers is the same one you provided in your post. Don From curiogeo7 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 14 14:41:24 2005 From: curiogeo7 at yahoo.com (George Hall) Date: Thu Apr 14 14:41:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Enviromental stuff In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050414214124.83876.qmail@web50508.mail.yahoo.com> Al, Right on, my apology to the group for a flame. Rocks or whare its at!!! George --- Al Balmer wrote: > Richard Trapp wrote: > > George, > > > > Ha, had to reply to you as well. > > > > As I stated in my message I live and work in > Arizona. I, too, am a > > "zonie". > > > This Arizona resident thinks that there must be a > more appropriate place > for you guys to argue. So far, I have no filters on > this mailing list, > and I'd like to keep it that way. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From Bozo5 at aol.com Thu Apr 14 19:33:43 2005 From: Bozo5 at aol.com (Bozo5@aol.com) Date: Thu Apr 14 19:33:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Morefield Mine - copper crystals Message-ID: <104.5f2bb9c4.2f908207@aol.com> "Crystal Growth in Gels" by Heinz K. Henisch, Pennsylvania State University $7 and change on Amazon.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jlkelly1066 at iglide.net Fri Apr 15 05:59:04 2005 From: jlkelly1066 at iglide.net (JL Kelly) Date: Fri Apr 15 05:58:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Clean it up! References: <200504150101.j3F11CDo027897@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <001601c541ba$e7fa4bf0$970bbed8@karolzg5f1uiqk> Enjoy getting the list. However, don't any of you people know how to DELETE anything? All of this garbage with copies of copies of copies is just ridiculous! If you want to reply to a message, REMOVE all of the other addresses, previous comments and other junk. I'm looking at the latest list and honestly just gave up trying to wade through a growing maelstrom of garbage. From lehkerd at gvsu.edu Fri Apr 15 10:30:27 2005 From: lehkerd at gvsu.edu (David Lehker) Date: Fri Apr 15 10:30:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Show Report / Thank you Message-ID: This past weekend the Indian Mounds Rock and Mineral Club held our annual show here in west Michigan. The event is always enjoyed by both the broader community and club members and includes many inexpensive mineral specimens available for children young and old. This years event was significantly energized by the generous contribution of Keith Hayes, of KQ minerals. In the fall of last year this list had a string "Cleaning out your Closet" where folks complained about how rocks were taking over their lives. Numerous examples were sited, and Keith sort of topped off the string by stating that as a dealer he had to move, had a polebarn of material and could: 1) sell it cheap, 2) Donate it to a local club.... Keith's donation to our club provided lots of excitement during the show. As each flat was opened, club members would gather around to ooh and aah, and quickly get in line to be the first to pick-up their favorite specimen. Keith indicated that his donation was "mostly inexpensive items" that would be good for the children's table. While this was true, and lots of kids came away with lovely specimens, even Kreigh Tomaszewski ( a frequent contributor to this list and mineral afficionado) was able to find an addition to his collection. It was truly great fun. So we owe a debt of gratitude to Keith and his generosity, as well as to the list, it's moderator and contributors who allow us to make connections that take us places we never fathom. As you consider that pile of material gathering dust that your not sure what to do with, don't forget your local ( or distant) rock and mineral club and the enthusiasm it will generate. It's a great way to support clubs and excite our younger generation Thanks again, Dave David Lehker, MSW, CSW Grand Valley State University School of Social Work DeVos Center, 401 W Fulton Grand Rapids Michigan 49504 616-331-6597 Fax - 616-331-6570 lehkerd@gvsu.edu From Rocknlight at aol.com Fri Apr 15 11:52:30 2005 From: Rocknlight at aol.com (Rocknlight@aol.com) Date: Fri Apr 15 11:53:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD : Equipement sale / 18 "saw & 20 quart tumbler, etc Message-ID: <8b.2580a9ad.2f91676e@aol.com> Hello everyone I am selling a lortone 18" saw for $1, 725.. Lortone ph # 425-493-1600 The saw is in VERY good condition and comes with an 18" blade. It was used for approx. 200 cutting hours Max... Also included with the saw is, a brand new custom built roller base platform with good quality locking caster wheels. This enables the heavy saw to be dollied easily by anyone and for placing anything you want below the saw for storage or a recirculating pump etc.. The platform holds 400+ pounds. Also selling a vibratory tumbling machine / Burr King bowl tumbler Model 200 s .. This is a 20 quart size bowl and is a Heavy Duty tumbler.. I am including 3 of the heavy duty 20 quart bowls.. It was used only one time and is in very good condition. Burr King phone number is 1 800 621-2748 I am selling the tumbler with 3 bowls for $ 700 Please e mail me at: ROCKNLIGHT@AOL.COM If you wish, you may also include your phone number and a good time to phone you and you can speak with me personally, if you have any questions at all. I am located about 30 miles north of the San Fernando Valley in Los Angeles County California. Thank you for your time Sincerely, Steve --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Fri Apr 15 11:58:47 2005 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Apr 15 11:58:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Clean it up! References: <200504150101.j3F11CDo027897@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <001601c541ba$e7fa4bf0$970bbed8@karolzg5f1uiqk> Message-ID: <002901c541ed$27b5af00$6501a8c0@GlennWimpee> DITTO! From gir at directcon.net Fri Apr 15 12:55:42 2005 From: gir at directcon.net (Gary Truesdail) Date: Fri Apr 15 12:55:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dolly Shueh Message-ID: <42601C3E.2000700@directcon.net> Dolly, I'm responding to a 1 year old email you sent trying to get info about Sherman. If you see this message contact me regarding Sherman Gary Truesdail From afox at drizzle.com Fri Apr 15 14:59:26 2005 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Fri Apr 15 15:22:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN]Re: Clean it up! In-Reply-To: <002901c541ed$27b5af00$6501a8c0@GlennWimpee> Message-ID: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/laup.html Please take a few minutes and read. It's not binding, but it's a good guide of what's considered good behaviour on a public list. Especially section 5. Aaron Rockhounds Admin -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From jabac at hal-pc.org Fri Apr 15 16:32:14 2005 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Fri Apr 15 16:33:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] vibration insulation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1113607934.4885.3.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2005-04-13 at 13:09 -0400, Carol J. Bova wrote: > Hi Folks.. > What do you use or recommend as a vibration/noise insulator to put > under a tumbler mounted to a cement block? I had a piece of some kind > of foam pad material back in L.A., and I can't remember where I found > it, or what kind it was. > Thanks much! > Carol > > Carol J. Bova > The Eclectic Lapidary > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com Try some of the floor pads used to provide foot comfort when standing and working at machines. E.g., Harbor Freight has a nice sized group for about $12. I'm sure other places, even office supply stores, could provide something similar. john From jabac at hal-pc.org Fri Apr 15 16:38:55 2005 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Fri Apr 15 16:40:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Growing Copper Geodes In-Reply-To: <8C70E6BDE9FFCCF-1B4-29FE3@mblk-r24.sysops.aol.com> References: <000e01c5404a$7074fd80$10e5490c@jenscomputer> <8C70E6BDE9FFCCF-1B4-29FE3@mblk-r24.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1113608335.4885.5.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2005-04-13 at 14:15 -0400, fossilnut@aol.com wrote: > While I have no real qualms about using copper sulfate in this context (with supervision), as a person with a chemical background, I also believe that there is little point using a more hazardous substance when a less hazardous one will do the job. To that end I might substitute alum for copper sulfate. As a child I grew some great alum crystals. Alum (aluminum sulfate) is cheap and easy to use in this context. It is less likely to stain (copper sulfate will stain your skin for awhile... I've done it) and a lot less toxic. Nonetheless, nothing is totally non-toxic and human deaths have been reported from eating 30 grams of the material. Since alum tastes awful.... again from personal experience.... I cannot imagine any sane person willingly eating 30 grams of the stuff. UGH!! > > At any rate, except for the color, alum will make great geodes. The Rat LD 50 is over 6000 mg/kg moving it into a much lower toxicity class. > > As a child I also doped this with a little chrome alum to make pretty purple crystals. It does not take much. HOWEVER, since chrome alum contains chromium and there are issues with chrome salts, I would not recommend this be used. Note that the chrome here is chrome 3 not chrome 6, but there is so much controversy over chromium in general that there is no point opening this can of worms. > > For that matter sugar with food coloring would also work, I suspect. Except it would attract ants. > > Gene Hartstein > Newark, DE > Ditto for Sal Soda, Sodium Bicarbonate, and Borax. john From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Fri Apr 15 18:20:08 2005 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (catgbrown) Date: Fri Apr 15 18:19:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A Fine Shop in Texas! In-Reply-To: <425EC95D.9090406@att.net> References: <6b.43448e0e.2f901d61@aol.com> <425EC95D.9090406@att.net> Message-ID: <20050416011257.M25067@catspaw-minerals.com> Well kids, I have FINALLY found a real rock shop! I knew it was real right off the bat when that glorious smell of rock-saw lubricrant greeted me as I walked in the door. Piles of rough in the back room, lots of cut material (oh my, the Mexican opals...sorry about the drool on the counter), and many MANY reasonably priced specimens (plus a lot of killer pieces at appropriate prices!). The place? Texas Rock Shop. It's in New Braunfels, about 1/2 hour east of downtown San Antonio. It's not your foo-foo "new age" place. It's a shop like I remember from the Good Old Days. They are on line at: http://www.texasrockshop.com/. If you go there, tell Glenna I sent you! Oh joy! Oh rapture! etc etc. Regards, Gary Brown Catspaw Minerals http://www.catspaw-minerals.com Home of the MasMils/PLUS Mine Location Disk From dmschmidt at sprint.ca Fri Apr 15 18:42:54 2005 From: dmschmidt at sprint.ca (michael) Date: Fri Apr 15 18:42:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A Fine Shop in Texas! References: <6b.43448e0e.2f901d61@aol.com> <425EC95D.9090406@att.net> <20050416011257.M25067@catspaw-minerals.com> Message-ID: <0a9e01c54225$9bfe3ac0$6702a8c0@heathercomp> well their fossils are sure pricey!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "catgbrown" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 7:20 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] A Fine Shop in Texas! > Well kids, I have FINALLY found a real rock shop! I knew it was real > right > off the bat when that glorious smell of rock-saw lubricrant greeted me as > I > walked in the door. Piles of rough in the back room, lots of cut material > (oh > my, the Mexican opals...sorry about the drool on the counter), and many > MANY > reasonably priced specimens (plus a lot of killer pieces at appropriate > prices!). The place? Texas Rock Shop. It's in New Braunfels, about 1/2 > hour > east of downtown San Antonio. > > It's not your foo-foo "new age" place. It's a shop like I remember from > the > Good Old Days. They are on line at: http://www.texasrockshop.com/. If > you go > there, tell Glenna I sent you! Oh joy! Oh rapture! etc etc. > > Regards, > Gary Brown > Catspaw Minerals > http://www.catspaw-minerals.com > Home of the MasMils/PLUS Mine Location Disk > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From agesilaus at gmail.com Sat Apr 16 07:28:45 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Apr 16 07:28:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Growing Copper Geodes In-Reply-To: References: <001d01c53f92$a1e2d620$21e6490c@jenscomputer> Message-ID: OK sorry for the delay in replying but work called. I was wrong, the forest cover apparently declined to a minimum in the late 1800's. Which makes some sense when you think about it. They were using a lot more wood products in that period, fences, most residential buildings, and of course it was used as fuel. Another factor is the decline in the amount of farmland needed to produce food, as farmland is removed from production it has often been returned to forest or tree-farms. Since the early 1900's, the petroleum age, forest cover has been increasing and is now at 70% or so of the precolumbian max, which was about 1.1 billion acres. Bryan On 4/12/05, Grant Johnston wrote: > On Apr 12, 2005 12:31 PM, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > While there is plenty of work to be done on the environment > > here we are spending huge amounts of money and making major efforts to > > clean up problems. We have more forests here now than they did in the > > 1700's, the air and water are cleaner than they have been for a > > hundred years or more. And mine site recovery goes on at great > > expense. > > > > In the 1700's most of the land west of the Mississippi was primitive. > I find it hard to believe there are more forest in California than > there was in 1848. There may be more tree farms in the U. S., but a > farm is not a forest. > > I've seen tree farms in the Deep South; Louisiana, Mississippi, and > Alabama, that looked like rows of Christmas trees waiting to be sold. > In those states I saw an occasional copse but very few forest. > > Grant Johnston, Chico, CA > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From agesilaus at gmail.com Sat Apr 16 08:01:14 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Apr 16 08:01:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Growing Copper Geodes In-Reply-To: <000e01c5404a$7074fd80$10e5490c@jenscomputer> References: <000e01c5404a$7074fd80$10e5490c@jenscomputer> Message-ID: The environment in the US is not in a "bad state". If you get on the web and do some searches you'll find that air quality is steadily improving, in California: http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/motorgas/gallery.asp?img=9 and you find the same data for just about any area you want to check. Maryland has cut it's ozone alert days in half for instance. Nationally: http://www.pacificresearch.org/pub/sab/enviro/00_enviroindex/air.html You see that SOX and Carbon Monoxide are down by two thirds and lead is down by 97%. All other indicators show a distinct downward trend. And that was while vehicle miles driven more than doubled. As for water quality you will find the exact same situation. Continious improvement since the 1970's As for Europe, look at the Rhine: "Since 1987 the levels of pollution in the Rhine have steadily been decreasing. By 1995 the amount of phosphorous and nitrogen had decreased by 50 %. Ninety percent of all urban wastewater is now treated in sewerage plants, compared to 75% in the mid 1980's. This has had a positive impact on the fauna and flora of the river. Coupled with projects to aid fish migration, such as building 'fish ladders' to bypass weirs, there has been a gradual return to some parts of the river of Salmon and Sea Trout. Of course, much work still remains to be done with levels of heavy metals and some pesticides still being higher than WHO safety guidelines." http://www.thewaterpage.com/rhine_environment.htm I don't know of any major river in the US that has untreated sewage flowing into it, apparently 10% of cities on the Rhine do not have treatment plants. And I understand many of the treatment plants are primary treatment only while most US facilities are tertiary treatment, a factor of 100 better in pollution removal. And note the date mentioned above, Europe didn't even begin to work on cleanup until almost 20 years after the US. Eastern Europe is an environmental disaster. As for why we still hear claims of environmental disaster, the reason is simple enough: money. When the Sierra Club asks you and folks like you for money they believe (with good reason) that horror stories will get them more money than the truth. They want someone to pay their salaries. Bryan On 4/13/05, Jennifer Parat wrote: > Hello. > > Copper Sulfate is hazardous. Supervision is necessary. It is not a serious threat if it is spilled or swallowed. > > To Don... > > I attend University of Illinois at Chicago. The battle against the environment is necessary for all. My children will not be able to enjoy it. (I have yet to have kids...lol) > > To Bryan... > > If you need ideas for children, I'd be happy to lend a hand. lol. It's what they pay me to do. I work at the Adler Planetarium. It is my job to bring the "big" science ideas down to the children's level. We are constantly planning new projects and trips. Unfortunately, I have more activities that promotes astronomy instead of geology. > > I am from the United States. I study at University of Illinois at Chicago. You know what they say about somebody who assumes... lol. > > About my comment to the rockhounds... It really is not applicable to the environment. I'm sorry that my letter mislead you. Rock sites are destroyed. It is unfortunate. In fact, I think someone wrote "leave no rock behind." That is exactly what is happening to these sites. > > Nonetheless, I disagree about your comments about the environment. I know the European Union is trying very hard to restore their environment. Each country is different, but Sweden is fighting a strong battle. > > The US environment is in a bad state. We are lucky that we get to ship our garbage to third world countries (sarcasm). It keeps our land pristine. > > Best, > > Jennifer > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From tjokela at execulink.com Sat Apr 16 11:12:29 2005 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Sat Apr 16 11:14:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Growing Copper Geodes References: <000e01c5404a$7074fd80$10e5490c@jenscomputer> Message-ID: <000901c542af$da0e2fc0$6400a8c0@Junior> Hi J Bryan Kramer, Thank you for you providing your view on the state of the environment! This is not the place for a debate on this topic, so I will limit myself to one point: the sources you cite, Chevron (an oil company) and the Pacific Research Institute (a "free-market think tank") aren't exactly unbiased. I'd also like to say thanks for motivating me to do the following: Join The Sierra Club - http://www.sierraclub.org/ Send a donation to The Nature Conservancy - http://www.natureconservancy.org/ Renew my membership in Trout Unlimited - http://www.tu.org/ Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com ---------------------------------------- > The environment in the US is not in a "bad state". nonsensical Bush-speak snipped > As for why we still hear claims of environmental disaster, the reason > is simple enough: money. When the Sierra Club asks you and folks like > you for money they believe (with good reason) that horror stories will > get them more money than the truth. They want someone to pay their > salaries. > > Bryan From jaybates at rcn.com Sat Apr 16 12:44:57 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sat Apr 16 12:47:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Growing Copper Geodes References: <000e01c5404a$7074fd80$10e5490c@jenscomputer> Message-ID: <001001c542bc$c568ed00$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> You are right, we are in good shape. But the reason we are in such good shape is because of previous battles to clean up the environment. In most cases big business dragged their feet and had to be legislated into compliance. Our air is so much cleaner after the catalytic converter was mandated for our vehicles and the removal of lead from gasoline. Many fishladders don't work as well as there were supposed to and fish are being trucked around some dams. Some dams have been very useful in establishing trout fisheries on warm water stream where none previously existed, while other dams have devastated previous trout and salmon runs. It is very much a mixed bag. We are reaping the dividends from the large amount of money spent on sewage treatment with cleaner rivers. None of these gains have come without large costs and many battles. We have reached a point now where we have to decide how much more improvement can we afford and is it worth it in monetary costs and costs on both sides of the ledger that cannot be described in monetary terms. ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 8:01 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Growing Copper Geodes > The environment in the US is not in a "bad state". If you get on the > web and do some searches you'll find that air quality is steadily > improving, in California: > > http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/motorgas/gallery.asp?img=9 > > and you find the same data for just about any area you want to check. > Maryland has cut it's ozone alert days in half for instance. > > Nationally: > > http://www.pacificresearch.org/pub/sab/enviro/00_enviroindex/air.html > > You see that SOX and Carbon Monoxide are down by two thirds and lead > is down by 97%. All other indicators show a distinct downward trend. > And that was while vehicle miles driven more than doubled. > > > As for water quality you will find the exact same situation. > Continious improvement since the 1970's > > As for Europe, look at the Rhine: > > "Since 1987 the levels of pollution in the Rhine have steadily been > decreasing. By 1995 the amount of phosphorous and nitrogen had > decreased by 50 %. Ninety percent of all urban wastewater is now > treated in sewerage plants, compared to 75% in the mid 1980's. This > has had a positive impact on the fauna and flora of the river. Coupled > with projects to aid fish migration, such as building 'fish ladders' > to bypass weirs, there has been a gradual return to some parts of the > river of Salmon and Sea Trout. Of course, much work still remains to > be done with levels of heavy metals and some pesticides still being > higher than WHO safety guidelines." > > http://www.thewaterpage.com/rhine_environment.htm > > I don't know of any major river in the US that has untreated sewage > flowing into it, apparently 10% of cities on the Rhine do not have > treatment plants. And I understand many of the treatment plants are > primary treatment only while most US facilities are tertiary > treatment, a factor of 100 better in pollution removal. And note the > date mentioned above, Europe didn't even begin to work on cleanup > until almost 20 years after the US. > > Eastern Europe is an environmental disaster. > > As for why we still hear claims of environmental disaster, the reason > is simple enough: money. When the Sierra Club asks you and folks like > you for money they believe (with good reason) that horror stories will > get them more money than the truth. They want someone to pay their > salaries. > > Bryan > > > On 4/13/05, Jennifer Parat wrote: > > Hello. > > > > Copper Sulfate is hazardous. Supervision is necessary. It is not a serious threat if it is spilled or swallowed. > > > > To Don... > > > > I attend University of Illinois at Chicago. The battle against the environment is necessary for all. My children will not be able to enjoy it. (I have yet to have kids...lol) > > > > To Bryan... > > > > If you need ideas for children, I'd be happy to lend a hand. lol. It's what they pay me to do. I work at the Adler Planetarium. It is my job to bring the "big" science ideas down to the children's level. We are constantly planning new projects and trips. Unfortunately, I have more activities that promotes astronomy instead of geology. > > > > I am from the United States. I study at University of Illinois at Chicago. You know what they say about somebody who assumes... lol. > > > > About my comment to the rockhounds... It really is not applicable to the environment. I'm sorry that my letter mislead you. Rock sites are destroyed. It is unfortunate. In fact, I think someone wrote "leave no rock behind." That is exactly what is happening to these sites. > > > > Nonetheless, I disagree about your comments about the environment. I know the European Union is trying very hard to restore their environment. Each country is different, but Sweden is fighting a strong battle. > > > > The US environment is in a bad state. We are lucky that we get to ship our garbage to third world countries (sarcasm). It keeps our land pristine. > > > > Best, > > > > Jennifer > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jpjunk at mc.net Sat Apr 16 17:45:47 2005 From: jpjunk at mc.net (jjunkroski) Date: Sat Apr 16 17:48:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Growing Copper Geodes In-Reply-To: <000901c542af$da0e2fc0$6400a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: Thank you Tim, for saying eloquently what I wanted to say. For anyone who believes our environment is in great shape, I suggest you research the figures for childhood asthma, testicular and ovarian cancers, birth defects, etc. ad nauseam. ( And do your research with sources NOT owned and operated by the polluters.) You can only crap in your nest for so long... then you're nesting in your crap. My checks to Nature Conservancy, Greenpeace and Sierra are in the mail. John on 4/16/05 1:12 PM, Tim Jokela Jr. at tjokela@execulink.com wrote: > Hi J Bryan Kramer, > > Thank you for you providing your view on the state of the environment! > > This is not the place for a debate on this topic, so I will limit myself to > one point: the sources you cite, Chevron (an oil company) and the Pacific > Research Institute (a "free-market think tank") aren't exactly unbiased. > > I'd also like to say thanks for motivating me to do the following: > > Join The Sierra Club - http://www.sierraclub.org/ > Send a donation to The Nature Conservancy - > http://www.natureconservancy.org/ > Renew my membership in Trout Unlimited - http://www.tu.org/ > > Cheers, > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > ---------------------------------------- > >> The environment in the US is not in a "bad state". > > nonsensical Bush-speak snipped > >> As for why we still hear claims of environmental disaster, the reason >> is simple enough: money. When the Sierra Club asks you and folks like >> you for money they believe (with good reason) that horror stories will >> get them more money than the truth. They want someone to pay their >> salaries. >> >> Bryan > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sat Apr 16 18:19:29 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sat Apr 16 18:19:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Growing Copper Geodes????? Don't believe it... References: Message-ID: <004d01c542eb$80ff7420$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I've been tracking this string from sometime. Do you realize it hasn't been about "Growing Copper Geodes" for many days? Please, change the subject header when you change the subject! As a park naturalist I am interested in the nature of the environment. Despite the improvements, we have a long, long way to go! To me the judge of improvement are more practical things like being able to swim in a stream without risking major illness or death. Or seeing the number of fish consumption warnings decrease. I can't speak for 48 states, but for Indiana and Kentucky the water is still holds many health hazards. My expectations don't include things like drinking out of a cave spring or mountain brook, but they do include a safe dip in the creek or seeing the local 800' high power plant smoke stack not belch out plumes of black smoke. On the other hand, the Ohio River has lots of mudpuppies and more hellbenders which cannot survive in polluted water ways. That can be countered with the 1 million plastic containers that get hung up at the park whenever the river rises. Now, back to geology... I had a terrific day collecting thousands of fossils at a local quarry. Oops, out of time. Too much non-geology stuff... Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "jjunkroski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 8:45 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Growing Copper Geodes > Thank you Tim, for saying eloquently what I wanted to say. > > For anyone who believes our environment is in great shape, I suggest you > research the figures for childhood asthma, testicular and ovarian cancers, > birth defects, etc. ad nauseam. ( And do your research with sources NOT > owned and operated by the polluters.) > > You can only crap in your nest for so long... then you're nesting in your > crap. > > My checks to Nature Conservancy, Greenpeace and Sierra are in the mail. > > John > > on 4/16/05 1:12 PM, Tim Jokela Jr. at tjokela@execulink.com wrote: > >> Hi J Bryan Kramer, >> >> Thank you for you providing your view on the state of the environment! >> >> This is not the place for a debate on this topic, so I will limit myself >> to >> one point: the sources you cite, Chevron (an oil company) and the Pacific >> Research Institute (a "free-market think tank") aren't exactly unbiased. >> >> I'd also like to say thanks for motivating me to do the following: >> >> Join The Sierra Club - http://www.sierraclub.org/ >> Send a donation to The Nature Conservancy - >> http://www.natureconservancy.org/ >> Renew my membership in Trout Unlimited - http://www.tu.org/ >> >> Cheers, >> >> Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com >> Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com >> The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com >> Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com >> >> ---------------------------------------- >> >>> The environment in the US is not in a "bad state". >> >> nonsensical Bush-speak snipped >> >>> As for why we still hear claims of environmental disaster, the reason >>> is simple enough: money. When the Sierra Club asks you and folks like >>> you for money they believe (with good reason) that horror stories will >>> get them more money than the truth. They want someone to pay their >>> salaries. >>> >>> Bryan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From agesilaus at gmail.com Sat Apr 16 19:02:38 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Apr 16 19:02:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Growing Copper Geodes In-Reply-To: References: <000901c542af$da0e2fc0$6400a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: OK time to call a halt to this thread, I don't ever want to see a flame war here and I apologize for getting one started. Bryan On 4/16/05, jjunkroski wrote: > Thank you Tim, for saying eloquently what I wanted to say. > > For anyone who believes our environment is in great shape, I suggest you > research the figures for childhood asthma, testicular and ovarian cancers, > birth defects, etc. ad nauseam. ( And do your research with sources NOT > owned and operated by the polluters.) > > You can only crap in your nest for so long... then you're nesting in your > crap. > > My checks to Nature Conservancy, Greenpeace and Sierra are in the mail. > > John > > on 4/16/05 1:12 PM, Tim Jokela Jr. at tjokela@execulink.com wrote: > > > Hi J Bryan Kramer, > > > > Thank you for you providing your view on the state of the environment! > > > > This is not the place for a debate on this topic, so I will limit myself to > > one point: the sources you cite, Chevron (an oil company) and the Pacific > > Research Institute (a "free-market think tank") aren't exactly unbiased. > > > > I'd also like to say thanks for motivating me to do the following: > > > > Join The Sierra Club - http://www.sierraclub.org/ > > Send a donation to The Nature Conservancy - > > http://www.natureconservancy.org/ > > Renew my membership in Trout Unlimited - http://www.tu.org/ > > > > Cheers, > > > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > > >> The environment in the US is not in a "bad state". > > > > nonsensical Bush-speak snipped > > > >> As for why we still hear claims of environmental disaster, the reason > >> is simple enough: money. When the Sierra Club asks you and folks like > >> you for money they believe (with good reason) that horror stories will > >> get them more money than the truth. They want someone to pay their > >> salaries. > >> > >> Bryan > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sat Apr 16 21:09:51 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sat Apr 16 20:57:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: our environment (was Copper Geodes) References: <000e01c5404a$7074fd80$10e5490c@jenscomputer> Message-ID: <002f01c54303$4ffd7260$3aa4490c@pete> Risking prolonging the ragged edge of this off-topic topic (but nothing derogatory to anyone), I just can't resist one comment because of an NPR radio story I just heard the other day, I'll make it quick & short. In reference to, re. Bryan's note, ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" > I don't know of any major river in the US that has untreated sewage flowing into it, apparently 10% of cities on the Rhine do not have treatment plants.... This was the subject of the NPR story--untreated sewage allowed to flow into rivers from many U.S. cities, whenever rainfall overwhelms the treatment plant capacity. The talked about Pittsburgh as one example; which made great strides in cleaning up its rivers, but the storm sewers and sewage flow in the same pipe system, so whenever there's heavy rain, all the overlow is just released directly into the river. It talked about how the rowers have to clean off their boats each time they take them out of the river, and how the city posts flags at the sewage outlets to warn boaters of the raw sewage release, which occurs on more days than not. I was really fairly shocked to hear this; they said this is not an uncommon situation in many cities; they just don't have the money to revamp their sewage systems. OK, rockhound relevance? Will some of those t _ _ _ _ that are released into the river "as is", become buried in river sediments and produce rich "new" coprolite beds? Pete (and yes, I agree this theme has kind of run its course... but I couldn't resist this note.) From rockcurrier at cs.com Sun Apr 17 00:14:07 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Sun Apr 17 00:10:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cavansite References: <200504170102.j3H12UWT016051@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <006001c5431d$0c073a40$2eeaa5d8@rock5> A while back someone wanted to know why the prices of cavansite had been going down. Here is some updated information about cavansite production in India. Rock Cavansite Ca(V4+O)Si4O10?4H2O India, Maharashtra, Wagholi near Pune, Dhoot Quarry. Wagholi is a village/town about 25 km east of Pune on the road to Ahmednagar. The urban sprawl of Pune has engulfed Wagholi and even spread some km beyond it. There used to be rural areas between Pune and Wagholi. There are about 40 quarries around Wagholi and they are collectively referred to as the Wagholi quarry zone. The quarries are known by the name of the owner of the quarry who is almost always also the owner of the land, tract of land or large plot in which the quarry is operating. There are some quarries where the land does not belong to the operator of the quarry, but he has taken the quarry site on lease from the owner. If the person , not the owner of the land, operates the quarry for a period of time, perhaps five years or so, the quarry becomes known by his name. The quarry owners do not like the attention that the zeolites bring to their operations. They have a license from the government to mine rock for building material and not anything else. When government officials hear that zeolites are being mined they think that they are gem stones and start to harass the mineral dealers looking for tax money or bribes and the quarry owners therefore don' t want to associate themselves with any specimen production. The mineral dealers and the runners that gather specimens from the quarry workers know the names of the various quarries, but they don't want the specific quarry names associated with particular specimens because of the attention it brings. I mention one quarry by name below because it is ancient history and won't get anyone in trouble. Cavansite was first found in 1989 at the Dhoot quarry (Mr. Dhoot was the quarry owner) in Wagholi and exploited by Dr. Bhale of Pone. There was one particular area of the Dhoot quarry that was full of low grade zeolites mineralization and the rock not hard and compact and therefore not desirable for building purposes so the quarry had mined completely around this rock. It was left sitting as a little hill, 20 feet high on the quarry floor. The quarry had mined entirely around it. Little blue balls of cavansite were discovered growing on drusy heulandite and stilbite in this hill and at first did not attract much attention. Little by little, the balls got bigger and better and bit by bit the hill was mined entirely away. The quality seemed to be getting better with depth, so the people interested in the material started to chase this pipe like structure, almost like a breccia pipe, deeper and deeper. Eventually the hole got to be about 20 feet below the quarry floor and began to fill with water. The mining of this pipe in the quarry caused so much interest and excitement that it caused the closure of this operation. Now it sits as a hole about 15 feet across in the center of the quarry floor and is filled with water within a few feet of the quarry floor. The quarry has covered the hole with railway rails and metal screen. The locals have bent up an edge and climb down into hole to get water. It makes a handy well. The wells in this part of India are all similar. They are more like big cisterns, 10 to 15 feet across and 20 to 40 or so feet deep. Most villages have them. The water table in the basalt is never far below the surface but the water in the basalt moves only slowly and over a period of days, it will fill a well, but continued pumping will soon empty the well. Small bore hole wells that are common in many other parts of the world would provide hardly any water at all. While digging these wells, zeolites specimens are often encountered. Sometimes they can be quite valuable for those who find them. This pipe like structure in Wagholi that produced the cavansite has so far turned out to be the only one of its kind so far discovered. There are three other quarries in Wagholi that produce specimens of cavansite on a regular basis, but rarely are more than two operated for cavansite at the same time. "Cavansite occurs only in reddish basalt although I have come across some cavansite coming out of gray or blackish basalt on extremely rare occasions but have never found any cavansite in the hard black trap basalt for which the quarries are operated. Whenever cavansite is coming out, it is found in irregular cavities spreading horizontally to a depth of 3-5 feet. The cavansite is found in cavities which are lined with minute petal stilbite or heulandite with cavansite balls popping out here and there. The cavity can be small, just one foot across, six inches in height and a foot deep, or it can be five feet across, two feet high and five to seven feet long. A cavansite cavity is never like other cavities of apophyllite, stilbite, heulandite or scolecite etc which are horizontal and spread straight and level into the rock or the quarry wall. The cavansite cavities are almost always sinuous, turning, twisting and irregular in shape, uneven in height. The pockets open up and close down only to open up again into even a larger or smaller pocket. There are cavities of cavansite which are very poorly endowed with cavansite balls. These will be lined with a matting of minute heulandite or stilbite turning and twisting will small and big blobs of basalt but very few scattered cavansite balls. Other cavities will have a thick concentration of cavansite with many balls popping up from the matrix very close to each other. Only in some places pentagonite is found below the level of cavansite. The mineralization situation is such that the reddish basalt with cavansite ends suddenly where the black basalt formation starts. All cavansite localities are in Wagholi. I have not come across cavansite in any other area except Wagholi."1 The largest cavansite ball found to date is about 3 cm in diameter. As the years have passed, the level of sophistication of specimen removal from the quarries has developed. For example, when a pocket of extremely delicate specimens, super glue is often run in and around the crystals. This will strengthen them against the violent hammer blows that will be needed to extract them from the basalt. Sometimes exceptional specimens are sold in place in the basalt pockets in the quarries. This is because some dealers insist on removing the specimens themselves, not trusting the quarry workers to do a careful enough job. It is not unknown for quarry workers to repair specimens in these pockets before sale to the dealers. Of course the dealer removing the specimen normally assumes that such specimens have not been glued. Sadly they may later discover from a customer that the specimen was glued. You just can't be too careful any more. This recently happened with a particularly wonderful and expensive pentagonite. It is interesting to listen to Indian dealers who have been the focus of government harassment when they talk about the government. It is really not much different when you listen to men involved in other sectors of business in India. It might go something like this. "The archaic, lop sided, regressive, oppressive and obstructionist policies of the government formulated by pen pushing bureaucrats who have little or no practical knowledge of field work who do not know financial dynamics are myopic and have no global vision.etc." The rant can continue for a long time. Compared to China and many other counties of the world, it is much more difficult to do business in India because of government regulations and controls. Eventually they will have to change their ways if they want to progress like China is doing. 1. Fasi Makki, personal communication 2005. From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 17 02:46:43 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Sun Apr 17 02:46:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cavansite References: <200504170102.j3H12UWT016051@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <006001c5431d$0c073a40$2eeaa5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <03ce01c54332$5da99db0$78f1edc1@mpc1> >A while back someone wanted to know why the prices of cavansite had been >going down. Here is some updated information about cavansite production in >India. >Rock Many thanks for that Rock. Informed and informative as usual. I'll print it out and add it to my catalogue. Mick From tim at orerockon.com Sun Apr 17 09:14:17 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun Apr 17 09:14:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: our environment In-Reply-To: <002f01c54303$4ffd7260$3aa4490c@pete> References: <000e01c5404a$7074fd80$10e5490c@jenscomputer> <002f01c54303$4ffd7260$3aa4490c@pete> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050417090859.02810510@mail.spiritone.com> I will prolong it even more since no one said to stop :) Portland Oregon is cleaning up their part of the lower Willamette River mess by separating their sewer and stormwater lines, and treating both (stormwater is going to be treated during small to averageish rainstorms, not all the time). What you say is common in the Burgh (ugh don't get me started, I'm from Philly :P) was a common problem here but is expected to happen very rarely once the couple hundred million dollar system is finished, which should be sometime before I kick off :) Oh yeah, the whole thing is being done because EPA sued the City. At 09:09 PM 4/16/2005, you wrote: >Risking prolonging the ragged edge of this off-topic topic (but nothing >derogatory to anyone), I just can't resist one comment because of an NPR >radio story I just heard the other day, I'll make it quick & short. In >reference to, re. Bryan's note, > >This was the subject of the NPR story--untreated sewage allowed to flow into >rivers from many U.S. cities, whenever rainfall overwhelms the treatment >plant capacity. The talked about Pittsburgh as one example; which made >great strides in cleaning up its rivers, but the storm sewers and sewage >flow in the same pipe system, so whenever there's heavy rain, all the >overlow is just released directly into the river. It talked about how the >rowers have to clean off their boats each time they take them out of the >river, and how the city posts flags at the sewage outlets to warn boaters of >the raw sewage release, which occurs on more days than not. I was really >fairly shocked to hear this; they said this is not an uncommon situation in >many cities; they just don't have the money to revamp their sewage systems. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sun Apr 17 12:05:05 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sun Apr 17 11:52:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: our environment References: <000e01c5404a$7074fd80$10e5490c@jenscomputer><002f01c54303$4ffd7260$3aa4490c@pete> <6.2.1.2.2.20050417090859.02810510@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <001101c54380$5fb37b00$16a6490c@pete> Tim, The NPR story said the EPA has been working with cities to try to get them to get water treatment up to par, but has generally been lenient because they recognize that many cities can't afford it. In the case of Pittsburgh, a figure of several BILLION dollars was quoted as what it would take to properly fix up their treatment system. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 10:14 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: our environment > I will prolong it even more since no one said to stop :) Portland Oregon is > cleaning up their part of the lower Willamette River mess by separating > their sewer and stormwater lines, and treating both (stormwater is going to > be treated during small to averageish rainstorms, not all the time). What > you say is common in the Burgh (ugh don't get me started, I'm from Philly > :P) was a common problem here but is expected to happen very rarely once > the couple hundred million dollar system is finished, which should be > sometime before I kick off :) > > Oh yeah, the whole thing is being done because EPA sued the City. > From jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com Mon Apr 18 00:06:29 2005 From: jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com (Jeanne Rhodes Moen) Date: Mon Apr 18 00:06:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Introduction and what is it? Message-ID: Sent this from wrong email account first time..so will send it again: Hi all, I used to be a member years ago and am just now getting back to rockhounds. My name is Jeanne Rhodes-Moen, and I'm a rockhound and jewelry artist. I'm currently in Norway, but am about to move back to the US (origianlly from Maryland), to Western North Carolina. Anyway, while out trying to find quality junks of Norwegian Unakite (which is quite unlike typical unakite), I found two crystal clusters. These were in a rock land fill where they have extended a dock into the sea. These where in one of the big dumped piles of stones. The first cluster was easy enough...quartz, but the second one is a mystery....I thought maybe barite, someone else said it could be celestite. You can see pictures of it at the bottom of http://www.jeanniusdesigns.com/norrocks.html Other stones on that page are garnet in biotite/feldspar/quartz matrix and the Norwegian Unakite I spoke of earlier. It's got darker red feldspar and two different tones of epidote...small dark green crystals in the base matrix and veins of lighter epidote traversing the stones. I'm curious, it almost seems like the lighter epidote has gotten darker since polishing. Does it oxidize in some way that makes it darker? Is there any way to prevent this if so? I'd like to preserve the color. Jeanne http://www.jeanniusdesigns.com From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Mon Apr 18 07:03:25 2005 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Mon Apr 18 07:03:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grey/Green Cerussite?? In-Reply-To: <000e01c5404a$7074fd80$10e5490c@jenscomputer> Message-ID: <200504181403.j3IE3WKW030360@bubbleator.drizzle.com> At the shop I was visiting last week I was handed an "unknown" to look at. The specimen was WAY heavy. The crystals were more-or-less intergrown, radiating, and sort-of tabular. The colour was a grayish-greenish. The crystals were semi-transparent to translucent. Bright luster. My feel-it-in-my-stomach identifier (you have one of those, don't you?) popped out "cerussite". My conscious mind said "Yeh... Right... Wrong colour, bucko". But, boy, the heft and crystal habit sure looked like cerussite. Location? Hah... Probably Mexico, where in Mexico? Who knows... Did I take a picture? Of course not. So, quick question: does cerussite show up as grey/green xtls? GcB From william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu Mon Apr 18 08:15:24 2005 From: william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu (William Cordua) Date: Mon Apr 18 08:15:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grey/Green Cerussite?? In-Reply-To: <200504181403.j3IE3WKW030360@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: Hi Gary, Grayish-green certainly seems to me a possible color for cerussite. I think cerussite sounds like a reasonable "field guess". I might also consider barite, given the density. A very high density in a bright non-metallic mineral leaves relatively few choices among the common minerals. A little chip subjected to a few wet chemical tests would likely tell what the stuff was. Best wishes - Bill C. Dr. William S. Cordua Professor of Geology/Mineralogy University of Wisconsin - River Falls 410 South Third Street River Falls, WI 54022 715-425-3139 william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu http://www.uwrf.edu/~william.s.cordua/ "Speak to the Earth and it shall teach thee" - Job 12:8 on 4/18/05 9:03 AM, Gary Brown at gbrown@catspaw-minerals.com wrote: > At the shop I was visiting last week I was handed an "unknown" to look at. > The specimen was WAY heavy. The crystals were more-or-less intergrown, > radiating, and sort-of tabular. The colour was a grayish-greenish. The > crystals were semi-transparent to translucent. Bright luster. My > feel-it-in-my-stomach identifier (you have one of those, don't you?) popped > out "cerussite". My conscious mind said "Yeh... Right... Wrong colour, > bucko". But, boy, the heft and crystal habit sure looked like cerussite. > Location? Hah... Probably Mexico, where in Mexico? Who knows... Did I > take a picture? Of course not. So, quick question: does cerussite show up > as grey/green xtls? > > GcB > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From lanny at lrream.com Mon Apr 18 09:17:39 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Mon Apr 18 09:15:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Introduction and what is it? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <625DAA7B-B025-11D9-B858-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi Jeanne, Welcome back to the list. It looks like stilbite is a good possibility for your unknown. Regards, Lanny On Apr 18, 2005, at 12:06 AM, Jeanne Rhodes Moen wrote: > Sent this from wrong email account first time..so will send it again: > > Hi all, I used to be a member years ago and am just now getting back to > rockhounds. My name is Jeanne Rhodes-Moen, and I'm a rockhound and > jewelry > artist. I'm currently in Norway, but am about to move back to the US > (origianlly from Maryland), to Western North Carolina. Anyway, while > out > trying to find quality junks of Norwegian Unakite (which is quite > unlike > typical unakite), I found two crystal clusters. These were in a rock > land > fill where they have extended a dock into the sea. These where in one > of the > big dumped piles of stones. The first cluster was easy > enough...quartz, but > the second one is a mystery....I thought maybe barite, someone else > said it > could be celestite. You can see pictures of it at the bottom of > http://www.jeanniusdesigns.com/norrocks.html > > Other stones on that page are garnet in biotite/feldspar/quartz matrix > and > the Norwegian Unakite I spoke of earlier. It's got darker red feldspar > and > two different tones of epidote...small dark green crystals in the base > matrix and veins of lighter epidote traversing the stones. I'm > curious, it > almost seems like the lighter epidote has gotten darker since > polishing. > Does it oxidize in some way that makes it darker? Is there any way to > prevent this if so? I'd like to preserve the color. > > Jeanne > > http://www.jeanniusdesigns.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rgangue at yahoo.com Mon Apr 18 09:51:00 2005 From: rgangue at yahoo.com (Stan Perry) Date: Mon Apr 18 09:51:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grey/Green Cerussite?? In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050418165100.77504.qmail@web54203.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Gary, Green included crystals of cerussite are common from one of the finds in Daoping Mine, Guangxi, China. I have some from Tsumeb that are nearly black from Galena? inclusions. I don't see a problem with a combination of grayish green for cerussite. Cheers, Stan Perry www.emineralshow.com Our Gangue Minerals --- Gary Brown wrote: > At the shop I was visiting last week I was handed an > "unknown" to look at. > The specimen was WAY heavy. The crystals were > more-or-less intergrown, > radiating, and sort-of tabular. The colour was a > grayish-greenish. The > crystals were semi-transparent to translucent. > Bright luster. My > feel-it-in-my-stomach identifier (you have one of > those, don't you?) popped > out "cerussite". My conscious mind said "Yeh... > Right... Wrong colour, > bucko". But, boy, the heft and crystal habit sure > looked like cerussite. > Location? Hah... Probably Mexico, where in Mexico? > Who knows... Did I > take a picture? Of course not. So, quick question: > does cerussite show up > as grey/green xtls? > > GcB > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > Stan Perry Our Gangue Minerals www.emineralshow.com Ebay seller ID rgangue e-mail at rgangue@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Apr 18 12:57:04 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Apr 18 12:56:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Introduction and what is it? Message-ID: <041820051957.6069.426411100008DBF4000017B5216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Jeanne, I looked at your pictures too--(very nice pictures of the unakite and all).\ The pictures of the white crystals are good, but it shows how hard it is to recognize a mineral, just from a photo. Lanny's suggestion of stilbite looks like a very good possibility. I've been trying to think if I can offer any other suggestions. Barite or orthoclase come to mind. But probably stilbite sounds best so far. Pete Modreski -------------- Original message from Jeanne Rhodes Moen : -------------- > Sent this from wrong email account first time..so will send it again: > > Hi all, I used to be a member years ago and am just now getting back to > rockhounds. My name is Jeanne Rhodes-Moen, and I'm a rockhound and jewelry > artist. I'm currently in Norway, but am about to move back to the US > (origianlly from Maryland), to Western North Carolina. Anyway, while out > trying to find quality junks of Norwegian Unakite (which is quite unlike > typical unakite), I found two crystal clusters. These were in a rock land > fill where they have extended a dock into the sea. These where in one of the > big dumped piles of stones. The first cluster was easy enough...quartz, but > the second one is a mystery....I thought maybe barite, someone else said it > could be celestite. You can see pictures of it at the bottom of > http://www.jeanniusdesigns.com/norrocks.html > > Other stones on that page are garnet in biotite/feldspar/quartz matrix and > the Norwegian Unakite I spoke of earlier. It's got darker red feldspar and > two different tones of epidote...small dark green crystals in the base > matrix and veins of lighter epidote traversing the stones. I'm curious, it > almost seems like the lighter epidote has gotten darker since polishing. > Does it oxidize in some way that makes it darker? Is there any way to > prevent this if so? I'd like to preserve the color. > > Jeanne > > http://www.jeanniusdesigns.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Apr 18 13:03:52 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Apr 18 13:05:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dinosaur eggs inside mother Message-ID: <041820052003.12528.426412A800012961000030F0216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Dear Rockhounds, Unless I've missed it, I don't think anyone has posted something about this news story yet. A paper published this week in Science is about the discovery of a pair of eggs inside the pelvis of a small therapod (oviraptor type) dinosaur from Jiangxi Province, China. Here's a good story about it from National Geographic News http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/04/0414_050414_dino_eggs.html and this story from MSNBC has a better picture. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7507590/ neat stuff! Pete Modreski --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com Mon Apr 18 13:02:07 2005 From: jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com (Jeanne Rhodes Moen) Date: Mon Apr 18 13:07:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Introduction and what is it? In-Reply-To: <041820051957.6069.426411100008DBF4000017B5216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: Thanks, the list is growing it seems...stilbite, barite, someone suggested celestite and orthoclase is definitely a possibility in a land full of feldspar! I may just have to drag it over to the local natural history museum and show it to the geologist if he's even still around over there! I'm updating some new images of the Unakite including 2 cabs cut today. One from the big rough stone and one from a small chunk found as heavy gravel. Jeanne On 4/18/05 9:57 PM, "pjmodreski@att.net" wrote: > Jeanne, > > I looked at your pictures too--(very nice pictures of the unakite and all).\ > > The pictures of the white crystals are good, but it shows how hard it is to > recognize a mineral, just from a photo. Lanny's suggestion of stilbite looks > like a very good possibility. I've been trying to think if I can offer any > other suggestions. Barite or orthoclase come to mind. But probably stilbite > sounds best so far. > > Pete Modreski > > -------------- Original message from Jeanne Rhodes Moen > : -------------- > > >> Sent this from wrong email account first time..so will send it again: >> >> Hi all, I used to be a member years ago and am just now getting back to >> rockhounds. My name is Jeanne Rhodes-Moen, and I'm a rockhound and jewelry >> artist. I'm currently in Norway, but am about to move back to the US >> (origianlly from Maryland), to Western North Carolina. Anyway, while out >> trying to find quality junks of Norwegian Unakite (which is quite unlike >> typical unakite), I found two crystal clusters. These were in a rock land >> fill where they have extended a dock into the sea. These where in one of the >> big dumped piles of stones. The first cluster was easy enough...quartz, but >> the second one is a mystery....I thought maybe barite, someone else said it >> could be celestite. You can see pictures of it at the bottom of >> http://www.jeanniusdesigns.com/norrocks.html >> >> Other stones on that page are garnet in biotite/feldspar/quartz matrix and >> the Norwegian Unakite I spoke of earlier. It's got darker red feldspar and >> two different tones of epidote...small dark green crystals in the base >> matrix and veins of lighter epidote traversing the stones. I'm curious, it >> almost seems like the lighter epidote has gotten darker since polishing. >> Does it oxidize in some way that makes it darker? Is there any way to >> prevent this if so? I'd like to preserve the color. >> >> Jeanne >> >> http://www.jeanniusdesigns.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Mon Apr 18 12:08:10 2005 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Mon Apr 18 14:08:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Brownie Project References: <20050414174430.8060.qmail@web20023.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003001c54449$fda24a20$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Joe and List, Julie and I got back last night from a week of collecting around our base camp in Ontario, OR including Cottonwood, Owyhee, Succor Creek, Sommercamp Road, McBride, Sheaville, Hog Creek and lots of etc. Back with a truckload of goodies - jasper, agate, many varieties of p. wood, a beautiful obsidian arrowhead and lots of memories. I'll try to send you (Joe) some petrified wood before your big brownie show. Trip report and photos to follow soon. Too tired to unload the truck at this point. John > I wanted to say thank you to the list as a whole for > contributions of minerals to my daughter's Brownie Troop. From dmschmidt at sprint.ca Mon Apr 18 17:18:05 2005 From: dmschmidt at sprint.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Mon Apr 18 17:18:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] ADVERT Lebanese Fossil specimens at FANTASTIC prices........ Message-ID: <17d001c54475$43863b20$6602a8c0@remains> Hello I have some VERY nice Lebanese fossil material at some very, very low prices. There are a number of different types of bony fish, sharks, skates, and misc. unidentified/undescribed material. The prices on some of it is less than what I was buying specimens for at the quarries in Lebanon last spring. If you are interested in seeing the complete listing of what is available, please send me an email (off-list, preferably), and I will send it off to you. There are some VERY rare fish on this list. Thanks Michael --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Mon Apr 18 19:12:41 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Mon Apr 18 19:12:39 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grey/Green Cerussite?? References: <200504181403.j3IE3WKW030360@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <004b01c54485$44c49440$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I have collected gray cerussite at the Hickory Cane mine, Crittenden Co., KY. It also occurs in tan, colorless, and dark gray crystals as well. The latter crystals are pictured at: http://www.mindat.org/picshow.php?id=24920. I concur that green crystals are possible. Alan G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Brown" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 10:03 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Grey/Green Cerussite?? > At the shop I was visiting last week I was handed an "unknown" to look at. > The specimen was WAY heavy. The crystals were more-or-less intergrown, > radiating, and sort-of tabular. The colour was a grayish-greenish. The > crystals were semi-transparent to translucent. Bright luster. My > feel-it-in-my-stomach identifier (you have one of those, don't you?) > popped > out "cerussite". My conscious mind said "Yeh... Right... Wrong colour, > bucko". But, boy, the heft and crystal habit sure looked like cerussite. > Location? Hah... Probably Mexico, where in Mexico? Who knows... Did I > take a picture? Of course not. So, quick question: does cerussite show > up > as grey/green xtls? > > GcB > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tim at orerockon.com Mon Apr 18 20:37:41 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Apr 18 20:37:39 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] ADVERT Lebanese Fossil specimens at FANTASTIC prices........ In-Reply-To: <17d001c54475$43863b20$6602a8c0@remains> References: <17d001c54475$43863b20$6602a8c0@remains> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050418203714.0250c138@mail.spiritone.com> fish? did you say fish? OK I'll bite :) At 05:18 PM 4/18/2005, you wrote: Hello I have some VERY nice Lebanese fossil material at some very, very low prices. There are a number of different types of bony fish, sharks, skates, and misc. unidentified/undescribed material. The prices on some of it is less than what I was buying specimens for at the quarries in Lebanon last spring.  If you are interested in seeing the complete listing of what is available, please send me an email (off-list, preferably), and I will send it off to you. There are some VERY rare fish on this list. Thanks Michael Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site Owner, Fisher Fisheries, Ltd. nospam@OreRockOn.com WWW http://OreRockOn.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From roughrock at gmail.com Mon Apr 18 21:14:02 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Mon Apr 18 21:14:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grey/Green Cerussite?? In-Reply-To: <004b01c54485$44c49440$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> References: <200504181403.j3IE3WKW030360@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <004b01c54485$44c49440$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: On 4/18/05, Alan Goldstein wrote: > I have collected gray cerussite at the Hickory Cane mine, Crittenden Co., > KY. It also occurs in tan, colorless, and dark gray crystals as well. The > latter crystals are pictured at: http://www.mindat.org/picshow.php?id=24920. > I concur that green crystals are possible. Nice picture. I got the impression those crystals were pretty small, the size of a rice grain, maybe even smaller. If my guess is correct how did you put light on them and keep the colors true? Grant From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Tue Apr 19 06:39:46 2005 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Tue Apr 19 06:39:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grey/Green Cerussite?? In-Reply-To: <004b01c54485$44c49440$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <200504191339.j3JDdtUx031826@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Do you think it would be likely to find them in the classic "jackstraw" masses? GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Alan Goldstein > Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 9:13 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Grey/Green Cerussite?? > > I have collected gray cerussite at the Hickory Cane mine, > Crittenden Co., KY. It also occurs in tan, colorless, and > dark gray crystals as well. The latter crystals are pictured > at: http://www.mindat.org/picshow.php?id=24920. > I concur that green crystals are possible. > > Alan G. > From bova at mindspring.com Tue Apr 19 08:11:14 2005 From: bova at mindspring.com (Carol J. Bova) Date: Tue Apr 19 08:07:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ad/Ann Eclectic Lapidary: Morefield Mine, Death Valley & Lamproite Message-ID: <45B3D95C-B0E5-11D9-B767-000A95773806@mindspring.com> Hello Folks! Announcement: The April issue of the Eclectic Lapidary which went online yesterday with articles on my visit to the Morefield Mine in Amelia, Virginia and a photo essay on a Death Valley visit with 'salt bergs' in a lake on the Devil's Golf Course. There is also an introduction to Geocaching, an activity that lets you practice using your GPS while having fun. These are all in the free, public section of the 'zine, and open to everyone at http://www.eclecticlapidary.com . Readers may register to post in, and read the forums without having a subscription. Everyone can check the classified ads in Trading Post. ADVERTISING PORTION: In the subscribing members section, Wes Roth has a detailed piece about cutting fire agate. and there's a visit to the Crater of Diamonds State Park in Murfreesboro, Arkansas with photos of the diamond field and of the Strawn-Wagner diamond and raw diamonds found in the Park (courtesy of the Arkansas Dept. of Parks & Tourism). Subscribers may also place free ads in the Trading Post section. LAMPROITE TO BE GIVEN AWAY: Everyone who subscribes by May 10th will be entered into a random drawing for a handful-sized sample of lamproite, in a neat little canvas sack that proclaims it to be "Genuine Lamproite -- The Diamond Matrix From Crater of Diamonds State Park." The winner will have the choice of one large chunk or several smaller pieces. There's no way to know if there's a diamond in any of them, but there are micro sparkles in both that don't appear to be mica under 10X, and will need a microscope to identify for sure. Have fun rockin'! Carol Carol J. Bova, Editor The Eclectic Lapidary editor@eclecticlapidary.com http://www.eclecticlapidary.com From MCGINNISG at aol.com Tue Apr 19 19:32:12 2005 From: MCGINNISG at aol.com (MCGINNISG@aol.com) Date: Tue Apr 19 19:32:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green and Red Labradorites Message-ID: <62.5351cc5d.2f97192c@aol.com> Has a way to treat natural labradorite to create green or red stones been discovered? There seems a lot of faceted green and red labradorite stones available at far cheaper than any rough can be purchased. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dmschmidt at sprint.ca Tue Apr 19 21:11:58 2005 From: dmschmidt at sprint.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Tue Apr 19 21:12:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green and Red Labradorites References: <62.5351cc5d.2f97192c@aol.com> Message-ID: <062501c5455f$19c83cd0$6602a8c0@remains> maybe it's stolen material....where is the cut material being sold? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 8:32 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Green and Red Labradorites > Has a way to treat natural labradorite to create green or red stones been > discovered? > There seems a lot of faceted green and red labradorite stones available at > far cheaper than any rough can be purchased. > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From dpowell13 at Rochester.rr.com Wed Apr 20 05:18:54 2005 From: dpowell13 at Rochester.rr.com (Darryl Powell) Date: Wed Apr 20 05:19:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vivianite Message-ID: <001001c545a3$2049a410$df144342@6663r01> Dear Mineral Colleagues, At the Rochester Symposium I picked up a vivianite crystal that came from Bolivia. Once home, I read in the mineral handbook that vivianites tend to deteriorate over time. What is your experience with vivianite? Are there any special precautions that could or should be taken? Thanks, in advance, for your wisdom. Darryl Powell Manchester, New York --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From liz.fodi at utoronto.ca Wed Apr 20 05:52:33 2005 From: liz.fodi at utoronto.ca (liz fodi) Date: Wed Apr 20 05:48:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vivianite In-Reply-To: <001001c545a3$2049a410$df144342@6663r01> References: <001001c545a3$2049a410$df144342@6663r01> Message-ID: <42665091.500@utoronto.ca> Keep it in the dark. Liz Darryl Powell wrote: >Dear Mineral Colleagues, > At the Rochester Symposium I picked up a vivianite crystal that came from Bolivia. Once home, I read in the mineral handbook that vivianites tend to deteriorate over time. What is your experience with vivianite? Are there any special precautions that could or should be taken? Thanks, in advance, for your wisdom. > >Darryl Powell >Manchester, New York > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Apr 20 07:37:19 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Apr 20 07:37:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vivianite In-Reply-To: <001001c545a3$2049a410$df144342@6663r01> Message-ID: Hi Darryl, I used acryl spray on my vivianites. I had a Russian specimen (Kertch or somehing like that) tha fell apart if you looked at it. The acryl spray stopped that. Naturally, it won't protect the specimen if you dicede to drop it and trample on it like I did ;-))) Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Darryl Powell Verzonden: woensdag 20 april 2005 14:19 Aan: Rockhounds List Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Vivianite Dear Mineral Colleagues, At the Rochester Symposium I picked up a vivianite crystal that came from Bolivia. Once home, I read in the mineral handbook that vivianites tend to deteriorate over time. What is your experience with vivianite? Are there any special precautions that could or should be taken? Thanks, in advance, for your wisdom. Darryl Powell Manchester, New York --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tim at orerockon.com Wed Apr 20 08:17:53 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Apr 20 08:17:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green and Red Labradorites In-Reply-To: <62.5351cc5d.2f97192c@aol.com> References: <62.5351cc5d.2f97192c@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050420080556.026b1cd0@mail.spiritone.com> If you are referring to sunstone, which is not labradorite, but another, completely different plagioclase feldspar, then it's simply economics. Rough sells for what the miners can get for it. If they can get high prices per carat for red/green/watermelon sunstone, then they charge high prices. When the market becomes saturated with rough, prices fall. Prices for good sunstone rough (which are driven by the Dust Devil mine, since not many other mines sell much rough, either wholesale or retail) used to be relatively cheap, since the material was not very well known outside the Portland area. Heck, you could go there for a long weekend and fee dig a couple thousand carats of very high quality stones for a grand or so. Lots and lots of this rough got shipped overseas, and lots and lots of (poor quality, IMHO) faceted stones were shipped back. Thus the market was, and still is, flooded with mediocre quality faceted sunstone, that can be purchased for less than the current per carat prices of rough, in some cases. In fact, if you spot a poorly cut stone that is deeply saturated red sunstone, you better buy it and recut it, since the "bloody" red rough has been in very short supply the past few years. So the answer is no, there is no way to treat sunstone to make it turn from clear to colored, or to change the color in any way. At 07:32 PM 4/19/2005, you wrote: >Has a way to treat natural labradorite to create green or red stones been >discovered? >There seems a lot of faceted green and red labradorite stones available at >far cheaper than any rough can be purchased. > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From pjmodreski at att.net Wed Apr 20 09:22:49 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Wed Apr 20 09:22:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green and Red Labradorites Message-ID: <042020051622.22968.426681D90003A8EC000059B8216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Tim & ____ & List, (sorry, I deleted the message with the original poster's name about the labradorites), One correction, Tim, the Oregon sunstone is, indeed, labradorite. "Labradorite" really has two meanings. One is for plagioclase feldspar with the iridescent silvery-blue or multicolored "schiller" (or, also called, "labradorescence"). But labradorite is also the accepted term for a certain compositional range of plagioclase feldspar, regardless of its color or presence or lack of any schiller. Specifically it is plagioclase of between 50 to 70 weight percent anorthite (calcium feldspar) composition; i.e., An(50-70%), Ab(50-30%). [Ab = albite, sodium feldspar] The Oregon sunstone is plagioclase, but by definition it is also labradorite; I've seen the composition quoted as 68% anorthite, which places it near the upper range of the labradorite composition range (70-90% An is Bytownite). A similar sunstone--facetable, but only found as yellow or amber-colored fragments, never with any red tints and never with any aventurescence or sparkling inclusions, is found at a locality at Pueblo Park, Catron County, New Mexico. It was formerly always known as bytownite, but then some more accurate analyses showed that it was (like the Oregon material) just inside the composition range of labradorite, so it is now properly called labradorite. Pete Modreski -------------- Original message from Tim Fisher : -------------- > If you are referring to sunstone, which is not labradorite, but another, > completely different plagioclase feldspar, then it's simply economics. > Rough sells for what the miners can get for it. If they can get high prices > per carat for red/green/watermelon sunstone, then they charge high prices. > When the market becomes saturated with rough, prices fall. Prices for good > sunstone rough (which are driven by the Dust Devil mine, since not many > other mines sell much rough, either wholesale or retail) used to be > relatively cheap, since the material was not very well known outside the > Portland area. Heck, you could go there for a long weekend and fee dig a > couple thousand carats of very high quality stones for a grand or so. Lots > and lots of this rough got shipped overseas, and lots and lots of (poor > quality, IMHO) faceted stones were shipped back. Thus the market was, and > still is, flooded with mediocre quality faceted sunstone, that can be > purchased for less than the current per carat prices of rough, in some > cases. In fact, if you spot a poorly cut stone that is deeply saturated red > sunstone, you better buy it and recut it, since the "bloody" red rough has > been in very short supply the past few years. > > So the answer is no, there is no way to treat sunstone to make it turn from > clear to colored, or to change the color in any way. > > At 07:32 PM 4/19/2005, you wrote: > > >Has a way to treat natural labradorite to create green or red stones been > >discovered? > >There seems a lot of faceted green and red labradorite stones available at > >far cheaper than any rough can be purchased. > > > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rik.dillen at skynet.be Wed Apr 20 10:36:39 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Wed Apr 20 10:36:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vivianite In-Reply-To: <001001c545a3$2049a410$df144342@6663r01> Message-ID: <200504201736.j3KHafHG032242@outmx028.isp.belgacom.be> I have several vivianites in my collection, I didn't treat any of them, and all are still intact. I hate spraying them because possible later analysis or other examinations would be hampered. Specimens come from Belgium, Spain, Kertsch-Krim-Russia. Maybe I have just been lucky. Greetings Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Powell Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 2:19 PM To: Rockhounds List Subject: [Rockhounds] Vivianite Dear Mineral Colleagues, At the Rochester Symposium I picked up a vivianite crystal that came from Bolivia. Once home, I read in the mineral handbook that vivianites tend to deteriorate over time. What is your experience with vivianite? Are there any special precautions that could or should be taken? Thanks, in advance, for your wisdom. Darryl Powell Manchester, New York --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From dmschmidt at sprint.ca Wed Apr 20 10:51:07 2005 From: dmschmidt at sprint.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Wed Apr 20 10:53:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vivianite References: <200504201736.j3KHafHG032242@outmx028.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: <233801c545d1$88278560$6602a8c0@remains> I think the Bolivian material is extremely light sensitive. I know people who have them that "show" them only 2-3 times per year because of the sensitvity ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rik Dillen" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 11:36 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Vivianite >I have several vivianites in my collection, I didn't treat any of them, and >all are still intact. > I hate spraying them because possible later analysis or other examinations > would be hampered. > Specimens come from Belgium, Spain, Kertsch-Krim-Russia. > Maybe I have just been lucky. > Greetings > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > Belgium > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>>> Belgian minerals >>>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>>> Exchange list > > MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Powell > Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 2:19 PM > To: Rockhounds List > Subject: [Rockhounds] Vivianite > > Dear Mineral Colleagues, > At the Rochester Symposium I picked up a vivianite crystal that came > from Bolivia. Once home, I read in the mineral > handbook that vivianites tend to deteriorate over time. What is your > experience with vivianite? Are there any special > precautions that could or should be taken? Thanks, in advance, for your > wisdom. > > Darryl Powell > Manchester, New York > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tim at orerockon.com Wed Apr 20 11:07:56 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Apr 20 11:08:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green and Red SUNSTONES :) In-Reply-To: <042020051622.22968.426681D90003A8EC000059B8216124364607059 C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <042020051622.22968.426681D90003A8EC000059B8216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050420103437.02660860@mail.spiritone.com> Thanks for the clarification Pete. I was referring to "Labradorite", the gem material, not labradorite, the mineral, and not only should have capitalized the word, but said why I used it: sunstones are sunstones, and are never referred to as "labradorite" by the dealers, diggers, carvers, or facetors who are unnaturally fascinated with them. Unless, of course, they are talking geology lol. As usual, the common term used to describe lapidary materials differs somewhat in definition from the accepted mineral name. Otherwise, very informative, also as usual :) I don't think the sunstones from the Plush area were recognized as "labradorite" until many years after their initial discovery, if I recall a paper that I read before my mind became cluttered with more useless information than it was designed to carry :) At 09:22 AM 4/20/2005, you wrote: >Tim & ____ & List, (sorry, I deleted the message with the original >poster's name about the labradorites), > >One correction, Tim, the Oregon sunstone is, indeed, >labradorite. "Labradorite" really has two meanings. One is for >plagioclase feldspar with the iridescent silvery-blue or multicolored >"schiller" (or, also called, "labradorescence"). But labradorite is also >the accepted term for a certain compositional range of plagioclase >feldspar, regardless of its color or presence or lack of any >schiller. Specifically it is plagioclase of between 50 to 70 weight >percent anorthite (calcium feldspar) composition; i.e., An(50-70%), >Ab(50-30%). [Ab = albite, sodium feldspar] > >The Oregon sunstone is plagioclase, but by definition it is also >labradorite; I've seen the composition quoted as 68% anorthite, which >places it near the upper range of the labradorite composition range >(70-90% An is Bytownite). > >A similar sunstone--facetable, but only found as yellow or amber-colored >fragments, never with any red tints and never with any aventurescence or >sparkling inclusions, is found at a locality at Pueblo Park, Catron >County, New Mexico. It was formerly always known as bytownite, but then >some more accurate analyses showed that it was (like the Oregon material) >just inside the composition range of labradorite, so it is now properly >called labradorite. > >Pete Modreski > >-------------- Original message from Tim Fisher : >-------------- > > > > If you are referring to sunstone, which is not labradorite, but another, > > completely different plagioclase feldspar, then it's simply economics. > > Rough sells for what the miners can get for it. If they can get high > prices > > per carat for red/green/watermelon sunstone, then they charge high prices. > > When the market becomes saturated with rough, prices fall. Prices for good > > sunstone rough (which are driven by the Dust Devil mine, since not many > > other mines sell much rough, either wholesale or retail) used to be > > relatively cheap, since the material was not very well known outside the > > Portland area. Heck, you could go there for a long weekend and fee dig a > > couple thousand carats of very high quality stones for a grand or so. Lots > > and lots of this rough got shipped overseas, and lots and lots of (poor > > quality, IMHO) faceted stones were shipped back. Thus the market was, and > > still is, flooded with mediocre quality faceted sunstone, that can be > > purchased for less than the current per carat prices of rough, in some > > cases. In fact, if you spot a poorly cut stone that is deeply saturated > red > > sunstone, you better buy it and recut it, since the "bloody" red rough has > > been in very short supply the past few years. > > > > So the answer is no, there is no way to treat sunstone to make it turn > from > > clear to colored, or to change the color in any way. > > > > At 07:32 PM 4/19/2005, you wrote: > > > > >Has a way to treat natural labradorite to create green or red stones been > > >discovered? > > >There seems a lot of faceted green and red labradorite stones > available at > > >far cheaper than any rough can be purchased. > > > > > > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From roughrock at gmail.com Wed Apr 20 14:09:28 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Wed Apr 20 14:15:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green and Red Labradorites In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050420080556.026b1cd0@mail.spiritone.com> References: <62.5351cc5d.2f97192c@aol.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20050420080556.026b1cd0@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: On 4/20/05, Tim Fisher wrote: >fee dig a couple thousand carets of very high quality stones > for a grand When we were in Quartzsite (Desert Gardens show, vendor 'Sunstones & Such' ) I got into a conversation with a couple that owned a claim near Plush. They said they were going to have a fee dig at their mine this summer. The cost was $150 per scoop. The way she explained it you could go to the edge of the pit and point the front loader to a particular area. They would take one scoop and bring it up to your cleaning and sorting area. They would dump it there and after that it belonged to you. If you found a huge green sunstone in it there was no extra charge. If you put the scoop of dirt in your truck and hauled it away, that was fine. I know a lot of people are turned off by fee digs that charge more if you find something of above average quality. In fact, if I pay to dig I'm gambling -- betting I will find something -- but if I pay to dig, then agree to pay more if I find something, I get turned off by it. I don't need to pay to look for stones that I still need to buy. Has anybody heard of a fee dig at any mine except the Dust Devil? Grant From dguin at earthlink.net Wed Apr 20 14:59:01 2005 From: dguin at earthlink.net (Dave Guin) Date: Wed Apr 20 14:59:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green and Red Labradorites In-Reply-To: References: <62.5351cc5d.2f97192c@aol.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20050420080556.026b1cd0@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <4266D0A5.2010602@earthlink.net> Grant Johnston wrote: >On 4/20/05, Tim Fisher > >>wrote: >>fee dig a couple thousand carets of very high quality stones >>for a grand >> >> > > >Has anybody heard of a fee dig at any mine except the Dust Devil? > >Grant > http://www.highdesertgemsandminerals.com/ Peace, dave --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Wed Apr 20 15:26:59 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Apr 20 15:27:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green and Red Labradorites In-Reply-To: <4266D0A5.2010602@earthlink.net> References: <62.5351cc5d.2f97192c@aol.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20050420080556.026b1cd0@mail.spiritone.com> <4266D0A5.2010602@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4266D733.4080103@att.net> Dave Guin wrote: > Grant Johnston wrote: > >> On 4/20/05, Tim Fisher > >> >>> wrote: fee dig a couple thousand carets of very high quality stones >>> for a grand >>> >> >> >> >> Has anybody heard of a fee dig at any mine except the Dust Devil? >> >> Grant >> > http://www.highdesertgemsandminerals.com/ > They offer a free dig, but there's no information on fee digging at the sunstone location. The free offer sounds like all you could expect even if you were paying for it. I'd like to go by there on our next vacation trip, but so far I've had no luck contacting them either via email or phone. There is a map on their website, but it doesn't display properly. From dguin at earthlink.net Wed Apr 20 15:43:01 2005 From: dguin at earthlink.net (Dave Guin) Date: Wed Apr 20 15:43:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green and Red Labradorites In-Reply-To: <4266D733.4080103@att.net> References: <62.5351cc5d.2f97192c@aol.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20050420080556.026b1cd0@mail.spiritone.com> <4266D0A5.2010602@earthlink.net> <4266D733.4080103@att.net> Message-ID: <4266DAF5.6020107@earthlink.net> Al Balmer wrote: >>> >> http://www.highdesertgemsandminerals.com/ >> > They offer a free dig, but there's no information on fee digging at > the sunstone location. The free offer sounds like all you could expect > even if you were paying for it. > > I'd like to go by there on our next vacation trip, but so far I've had > no luck contacting them either via email or phone. There is a map on > their website, but it doesn't display properly. Chris is VERY hard to get hold of. He often doesn't listen to the messages that have piled up on his cell while he is out of cell range for days at a time. My suggestion is that you keep calling between sunset and 10:00pm (pacific) to catch him when he is driving. Also Jessica usually will answer emails when they get home. Unfortunately, that is a fairly rare occurrence. They are in the field more often than not. Peace, dave From tim at orerockon.com Wed Apr 20 17:23:25 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Apr 20 17:23:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Plush, OR Sunstone fee digging In-Reply-To: References: <62.5351cc5d.2f97192c@aol.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20050420080556.026b1cd0@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050420171656.02659870@mail.spiritone.com> Grant, I agree with what you say, except that the Dust Devil does not charge a fee to dig, and only charges for what you decide to keep, if you are digging in the pit. They charge roughly half of wholesale price, which I find very reasonable. If you choose to sift the tailings, they charge a flat fee, and what you find is yours to keep, with no extra fees. And no, I haven't heard of any FEE digs other than the Dust Devil. Other operators in the area are open to fee digging, sharedigging, or closed, or open if you know someone, or whathaveyou, seemingly at random. It's best just to go and ask around, especially at the Dust Devil, since the diggers there seem to drift in from some of these "other" operations, and usually can turn you on to the other fee digging choices. At 02:09 PM 4/20/2005, you wrote: >On 4/20/05, Tim Fisher > wrote: > >fee dig a couple thousand carets of very high quality stones > > for a grand > >When we were in Quartzsite (Desert Gardens show, vendor 'Sunstones & >Such' ) I got into a conversation with a couple that owned a claim >near Plush. They said they were going to have a fee dig at their mine >this summer. The cost was $150 per scoop. > >The way she explained it you could go to the edge of the pit and point >the front loader to a particular area. They would take one scoop and >bring it up to your cleaning and sorting area. They would dump it >there and after that it belonged to you. If you found a huge green >sunstone in it there was no extra charge. If you put the scoop of dirt >in your truck and hauled it away, that was fine. > >I know a lot of people are turned off by fee digs that charge more if >you find something of above average quality. In fact, if I pay to dig >I'm gambling -- betting I will find something -- but if I pay to dig, >then agree to pay more if I find something, I get turned off by it. I >don't need to pay to look for stones that I still need to buy. > >Has anybody heard of a fee dig at any mine except the Dust Devil? > >Grant Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From jaybates at rcn.com Wed Apr 20 17:43:02 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Wed Apr 20 17:44:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Plush, OR Sunstone fee digging References: <62.5351cc5d.2f97192c@aol.com><6.2.1.2.2.20050420080556.026b1cd0@mail.spiritone.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20050420171656.02659870@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <000501c5460b$13638140$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> The Dustdevil has apparently not changed their fee structure unless they have done so and not changed their web site. The price of precious opal in Virgin Valley has gone up considerable this year at a couple of the mines. The Royal Peacock is charging $90/day to dig the bank and $40/day for the tailings. Rainbow Ridge is charging $300/load and $40/day for the tailings. The Opal Queen is charging $1000/day for four and no tailings digging. If you can't get in touch with Chris just go there, to his sunstone mine. There should be someone there to help you if he is not there. Keep trying to get contact Chris as he can be most helpful. His mine is just across the road from the Dustdevil. Trips to the Himalaya mine are periodically advertised at LArocks and you can contact the leader of those trips easy enough. I forget his name but the fees are the same. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" To: "Grant Johnston" ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 5:23 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Plush, OR Sunstone fee digging > Grant, I agree with what you say, except that the Dust Devil does not > charge a fee to dig, and only charges for what you decide to keep, if you > are digging in the pit. They charge roughly half of wholesale price, which > I find very reasonable. If you choose to sift the tailings, they charge a > flat fee, and what you find is yours to keep, with no extra fees. > > And no, I haven't heard of any FEE digs other than the Dust Devil. Other > operators in the area are open to fee digging, sharedigging, or closed, or > open if you know someone, or whathaveyou, seemingly at random. It's best > just to go and ask around, especially at the Dust Devil, since the diggers > there seem to drift in from some of these "other" operations, and usually > can turn you on to the other fee digging choices. > > At 02:09 PM 4/20/2005, you wrote: > > >On 4/20/05, Tim Fisher > > wrote: > > >fee dig a couple thousand carets of very high quality stones > > > for a grand > > > >When we were in Quartzsite (Desert Gardens show, vendor 'Sunstones & > >Such' ) I got into a conversation with a couple that owned a claim > >near Plush. They said they were going to have a fee dig at their mine > >this summer. The cost was $150 per scoop. > > > >The way she explained it you could go to the edge of the pit and point > >the front loader to a particular area. They would take one scoop and > >bring it up to your cleaning and sorting area. They would dump it > >there and after that it belonged to you. If you found a huge green > >sunstone in it there was no extra charge. If you put the scoop of dirt > >in your truck and hauled it away, that was fine. > > > >I know a lot of people are turned off by fee digs that charge more if > >you find something of above average quality. In fact, if I pay to dig > >I'm gambling -- betting I will find something -- but if I pay to dig, > >then agree to pay more if I find something, I get turned off by it. I > >don't need to pay to look for stones that I still need to buy. > > > >Has anybody heard of a fee dig at any mine except the Dust Devil? > > > >Grant > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jaybates at rcn.com Wed Apr 20 18:01:18 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Wed Apr 20 18:01:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Plush, OR Sunstone fee digging References: <62.5351cc5d.2f97192c@aol.com><6.2.1.2.2.20050420080556.026b1cd0@mail.spiritone.com><6.2.1.2.2.20050420171656.02659870@mail.spiritone.com> <000501c5460b$13638140$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <000501c5460d$a0f11340$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> LA Rocks is a Yahoo Group. For a Himalaya Trip contact: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LA-Rocks/message/4901 ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Plush, OR Sunstone fee digging > The Dustdevil has apparently not changed their fee structure unless they > have done so and not changed their web site. > > The price of precious opal in Virgin Valley has gone up considerable this > year at a couple of the mines. The Royal Peacock is charging $90/day to dig > the bank and $40/day for the tailings. Rainbow Ridge is charging $300/load > and $40/day for the tailings. The Opal Queen is charging $1000/day for four > and no tailings digging. > > If you can't get in touch with Chris just go there, to his sunstone mine. > There should be someone there to help you if he is not there. Keep trying to > get contact Chris as he can be most helpful. His mine is just across the > road from the Dustdevil. > > Trips to the Himalaya mine are periodically advertised at LArocks and you > can contact the leader of those trips easy enough. I forget his name but the > fees are the same. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Fisher" > To: "Grant Johnston" ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A > mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 5:23 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Plush, OR Sunstone fee digging > > > > Grant, I agree with what you say, except that the Dust Devil does not > > charge a fee to dig, and only charges for what you decide to keep, if you > > are digging in the pit. They charge roughly half of wholesale price, which > > I find very reasonable. If you choose to sift the tailings, they charge a > > flat fee, and what you find is yours to keep, with no extra fees. > > > > And no, I haven't heard of any FEE digs other than the Dust Devil. Other > > operators in the area are open to fee digging, sharedigging, or closed, or > > open if you know someone, or whathaveyou, seemingly at random. It's best > > just to go and ask around, especially at the Dust Devil, since the diggers > > there seem to drift in from some of these "other" operations, and usually > > can turn you on to the other fee digging choices. > > > > At 02:09 PM 4/20/2005, you wrote: > > > > >On 4/20/05, Tim Fisher > > > wrote: > > > >fee dig a couple thousand carets of very high quality stones > > > > for a grand > > > > > >When we were in Quartzsite (Desert Gardens show, vendor 'Sunstones & > > >Such' ) I got into a conversation with a couple that owned a claim > > >near Plush. They said they were going to have a fee dig at their mine > > >this summer. The cost was $150 per scoop. > > > > > >The way she explained it you could go to the edge of the pit and point > > >the front loader to a particular area. They would take one scoop and > > >bring it up to your cleaning and sorting area. They would dump it > > >there and after that it belonged to you. If you found a huge green > > >sunstone in it there was no extra charge. If you put the scoop of dirt > > >in your truck and hauled it away, that was fine. > > > > > >I know a lot of people are turned off by fee digs that charge more if > > >you find something of above average quality. In fact, if I pay to dig > > >I'm gambling -- betting I will find something -- but if I pay to dig, > > >then agree to pay more if I find something, I get turned off by it. I > > >don't need to pay to look for stones that I still need to buy. > > > > > >Has anybody heard of a fee dig at any mine except the Dust Devil? > > > > > >Grant > > > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Wed Apr 20 18:04:59 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Wed Apr 20 18:04:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vivianite References: <001001c545a3$2049a410$df144342@6663r01> Message-ID: <005f01c5460e$240b1640$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I am aware of both stable and unstable vivianite. The Troost collection still has a few vivianite specimens that are more than ~175 years old, but a lot of them are missing - either disintegrated or simply lost over the years. Same for copal, some are still around, others have disintegrated. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darryl Powell" To: "Rockhounds List" Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 8:18 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Vivianite Dear Mineral Colleagues, At the Rochester Symposium I picked up a vivianite crystal that came from Bolivia. Once home, I read in the mineral handbook that vivianites tend to deteriorate over time. What is your experience with vivianite? Are there any special precautions that could or should be taken? Thanks, in advance, for your wisdom. Darryl Powell Manchester, New York --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Wed Apr 20 18:09:15 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Wed Apr 20 18:09:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grey/Green Cerussite?? References: <200504181403.j3IE3WKW030360@bubbleator.drizzle.com><004b01c54485$44c49440$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <006601c5460e$bcf05280$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> The sizes are given on the image description. Most crystals from there are quite small. Being located in a temperate latitude, the weathering is not as deep as in desert, sub-tropical or tropical locations. I admit I confuse the coloration with the Hickory Cane mine hemimorphite which really comes in a wide range of colors! (See Hickory Cane mineral images on mindat.) Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Johnston" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 12:14 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Grey/Green Cerussite?? > On 4/18/05, Alan Goldstein wrote: >> I have collected gray cerussite at the Hickory Cane mine, Crittenden Co., >> KY. It also occurs in tan, colorless, and dark gray crystals as well. The >> latter crystals are pictured at: >> http://www.mindat.org/picshow.php?id=24920. >> I concur that green crystals are possible. > > Nice picture. I got the impression those crystals were pretty small, > the size of a rice grain, maybe even smaller. If my guess is correct > how did you put light on them and keep the colors true? > > Grant > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Wed Apr 20 18:13:45 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Wed Apr 20 18:13:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grey/Green Cerussite?? References: <200504191339.j3JDdtUx031826@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <006b01c5460f$5d67baa0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> They occur in an amazing array of crystal forms from bipyramidal to blocky-shapes, with twins, trillings and very rarely, wulfenite-like wafer-shaped crystals. One has almost "pagoda" like crystal form. All fluoresce orangish for some reason. Eventually I will upload a greater variety of habits to mindat. I had some additional images, but they were lost when mindat's server went down last month. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Brown" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 9:39 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Grey/Green Cerussite?? > Do you think it would be likely to find them in the classic "jackstraw" > masses? > > GcB > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of >> Alan Goldstein >> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 9:13 PM >> To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Grey/Green Cerussite?? >> >> I have collected gray cerussite at the Hickory Cane mine, >> Crittenden Co., KY. It also occurs in tan, colorless, and >> dark gray crystals as well. The latter crystals are pictured >> at: http://www.mindat.org/picshow.php?id=24920. >> I concur that green crystals are possible. >> >> Alan G. >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jonee at epix.net Wed Apr 20 18:38:43 2005 From: jonee at epix.net (E. L. Jones) Date: Wed Apr 20 18:38:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grey/Green Cerussite?? In-Reply-To: <006601c5460e$bcf05280$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> References: <200504181403.j3IE3WKW030360@bubbleator.drizzle.com><004b01c54485$44c49440$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> <006601c5460e$bcf05280$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <42670423.8030403@epix.net> This thread inspired me to take a look through my cerrusite/sphaleritie/galena specimens from one of the Pheonixville, Pennsylvania, Revolutionary War Period, lead works ( War of Rebellion for you Brits) The cerrusite has a covering of super-micro green pyromorphite xtals --sure enough, it makes the cerrusite appear gray-green in the sunlight--even a few micro waffers of Wulfenite for that "Howard Johnsons" look* My my! the eyesight isn't what it used to be. Elton * HoJo's, as affectiontely called in the states; a restraunt /motel chain known for it's gawdy green-orange paint scheme. Alan Goldstein wrote: > The sizes are given on the image description. Most crystals from there > are quite small. Being located in a temperate latitude, the weathering > is not as deep as in desert, sub-tropical or tropical locations. I > admit I confuse the coloration with the Hickory Cane mine hemimorphite > which really comes in a wide range of colors! (See Hickory Cane > mineral images on mindat.) > > Alan > From corundogs at charter.net Thu Apr 21 07:52:50 2005 From: corundogs at charter.net (CorunDogs) Date: Thu Apr 21 07:52:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Anyone from Georgia? And question about possible corundum in your own collections.... Message-ID: <009a01c54681$cae18530$e6b27144@dit03r92qai5fx> HI THERE!! I know I have posted about my involvement in The Corundum Project in the past, so I am not going to go into it now :-) But if you would like to check out what it is all about or see some of the most beautiful rocks in all of the World (in my opinion of course....hehe), here is the website www.corunduminium.com However, I have a couple of questions.... Is there anyone here from Georgia? My partner (Will Heierman)and I are needing someone who can help us with the corundum locations in Georgia and possibly getting some material. And if this person is interested, being one of our Regional Correspondants who will keep us up-to-date on the going on's with the corundum in Georgia. You will be given credit on our website and possibly in other publications as well. Here is exactly how Will worded it Georgia: Seeking contacts. Historical research in local libraries and through conversation; Looking for corundum sites and representative material, mapping and rockhounding; Looking at private and museum collections; Specimen acquisition, photographic images. The other question I have is if anyone has any corundum specimens in their collection that they would like to possibly offer to me for sale?? I am still looking to add to my own personal collection....and of course, if there is something outstanding, for The Collection.....which our goal is to eventually find a permament home for in a Museum!!! And credit can also be kept with the specimen if that is important to you. If anyone is interested, Will and a couple of his friends from the North (was almost completed when I came on board) have put together a wonderful online publication in the Canadian Rockhound Geological Magazine- Winter/Spring 2005 Addition. It is incredibly well written - even my family and friends who know absolutely NOTHING about corundum have found it interesting and was that allowed them to learn alot about what I am doing and why I have become so passionate about it :-) http://www.canadianrockhound.ca/2005/01/index.html If you could contact me offlist at corundogs@charter.net I would really appreciate it. Of course, you could respond on list, but I am not sure if other members would be upset :-) THANKS!!!! Brenda LaCroix Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, Nebraska Dedicated to helping abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a person.....to a Rescue Dog, you are the World!!! www.nationwidebostonrescue.org www.corunduminium.com - Ask me about The Corundum Project --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Thu Apr 21 08:39:51 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Apr 21 08:39:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Plush, OR Sunstone fee digging In-Reply-To: <000501c5460b$13638140$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> References: <62.5351cc5d.2f97192c@aol.com><6.2.1.2.2.20050420080556.026b1cd0@mail.spiritone.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20050420171656.02659870@mail.spiritone.com> <000501c5460b$13638140$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <4267C947.6000002@att.net> jaybates wrote: > The Dustdevil has apparently not changed their fee structure unless they > have done so and not changed their web site. > > The price of precious opal in Virgin Valley has gone up considerable this > year at a couple of the mines. The Royal Peacock is charging $90/day to dig > the bank and $40/day for the tailings. Rainbow Ridge is charging $300/load > and $40/day for the tailings. The Opal Queen is charging $1000/day for four > and no tailings digging. > > If you can't get in touch with Chris just go there, to his sunstone mine. > There should be someone there to help you if he is not there. Keep trying to > get contact Chris as he can be most helpful. His mine is just across the > road from the Dustdevil. > Does anyone have directions? The map on the web page doesn't display properly in either Firefox or Internet Explorer. Postscript: I've just looked at the website for the Dust Devil. They have excellent directions, and even GPS coordinates. The map also indicates that there is a public sunstone collection area. Does anyone know anything about that? (I wouldn't expect much from a public area, but you never know.) From Lapidry at aol.com Thu Apr 21 09:15:03 2005 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Thu Apr 21 09:15:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Plush, OR Sunstone fee digging Message-ID: <1de.39f8e85e.2f992b87@aol.com> In a message dated 4/21/2005 11:40:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, albalmer@att.net writes: Postscript: I've just looked at the website for the Dust Devil. They have excellent directions, and even GPS coordinates. The map also indicates that there is a public sunstone collection area. Does anyone know anything about that? (I wouldn't expect much from a public area, but you never know.) The Dust Devil is in the midst of the public area. You can easily surface collect plain sunstone all over the place within sight of the Dust Devil. A screen will net you even more. To get to the nice greens and reds though will take you much more work than you have to expend at commercial sites, like the Dust Devil. They've done much of the digging for you. In my book, worth the money. In either case, be prepared for a long ride back poorly marked dirt roads once you leave the main road. With luck, maybe you will go in right after they've freshly graded the roads and they aren't rutted up. Not an area for low clearance vehicles. Good luck on digging... it is a lot of fun, Dan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny at lrream.com Thu Apr 21 10:06:08 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Thu Apr 21 10:04:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vivianite In-Reply-To: <005f01c5460e$240b1640$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> References: <001001c545a3$2049a410$df144342@6663r01> <005f01c5460e$240b1640$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: Hi Alan and all, In general, and there may or may not be exceptions, vivianite from sedimentary origins are unstable. Those of other origins are often stable, or at least much more stable. Dr. Pough, wrote in the Mineral News in January 1992, that he knows of no vivianites of sedimentary origins in old collections that have not seriously deteriorated or completely deteriorated. The gist of his letter was that he was appalled at the high prices being charged for vivianites of sedimentary origin when the specimens were only a temporary feature in a collection. I believe his note to the MN was prompted by a recent (in 1991) find of some spectacular vivianites in Florida. These were selling at high prices that weren't justified for a mineral that would not last more than 20 years (if that long) in pristine condition. Watch out for those vivianites in the fossils from Kerch, Crimea. I'm not sure the picture is as bleak as Dr. Pough stated, but from my perspective, I agree with him on not spending more than a dollar on a vivianite of sedimentary origin. Regards, Lanny On Apr 20, 2005, at 6:04 PM, Alan Goldstein wrote: > I am aware of both stable and unstable vivianite. The Troost > collection still has a few vivianite specimens that are more than ~175 > years old, but a lot of them are missing - either disintegrated or > simply lost over the years. Same for copal, some are still around, > others have disintegrated. > > Alan > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darryl Powell" > > To: "Rockhounds List" > Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 8:18 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Vivianite > > > Dear Mineral Colleagues, > At the Rochester Symposium I picked up a vivianite crystal that > came from Bolivia. Once home, I read in the mineral handbook that > vivianites tend to deteriorate over time. What is your experience > with vivianite? Are there any special precautions that could or > should be taken? Thanks, in advance, for your wisdom. > > Darryl Powell > Manchester, New York > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From jaybates at rcn.com Thu Apr 21 10:05:30 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Thu Apr 21 10:05:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Plush, OR Sunstone fee digging References: <1de.39f8e85e.2f992b87@aol.com> Message-ID: <000701c54694$53365160$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> There is a camping spot at the public area that includes a pit toilet. You can find sunstones in the public area, but any areas that may have schiller or color have been surface collected so that it is very difficut to find areas where you can dig and find color and schiller. It can be worthwhile if you walk away from near the pit toilet and dig in areas previously dug. It is worth trying if you have the time to look. If you are limited in time and want good quality sunstones stick with the Dustdevil and other commercial areas. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 9:15 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Plush, OR Sunstone fee digging > > In a message dated 4/21/2005 11:40:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, > albalmer@att.net writes: > > Postscript: I've just looked at the website for the Dust Devil. They > have excellent directions, and even GPS coordinates. The map also > indicates that there is a public sunstone collection area. Does anyone > know anything about that? (I wouldn't expect much from a public area, > but you never know.) > > > > The Dust Devil is in the midst of the public area. You can easily surface > collect plain sunstone all over the place within sight of the Dust Devil. A > screen will net you even more. To get to the nice greens and reds though will > take you much more work than you have to expend at commercial sites, like the > Dust Devil. They've done much of the digging for you. In my book, worth the > money. In either case, be prepared for a long ride back poorly marked dirt > roads once you leave the main road. With luck, maybe you will go in right after > they've freshly graded the roads and they aren't rutted up. Not an area for low > clearance vehicles. > > Good luck on digging... it is a lot of fun, > > Dan > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Lapidry at aol.com Thu Apr 21 10:15:00 2005 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Thu Apr 21 10:15:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vivianite Message-ID: <141.4428283d.2f993994@aol.com> All: OK, Lanny gave an excellent, well written warning on vivianite from sedimentary origins. Now, does anyone know if the Bolivian stuff is sedimentary? Like Darryl Powell, the original person to post the question, I bought one at the Rochester Symposium. They were a bit too nice and unusual to pass up. Do I have a piece that is going to fall apart in a decade or two? Thanks, Dan In a message dated 4/21/2005 1:04:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, lanny@lrream.com writes: Hi Alan and all, In general, and there may or may not be exceptions, vivianite from sedimentary origins are unstable. Those of other origins are often stable, or at least much more stable. Dr. Pough, wrote in the Mineral News in January 1992, that he knows of no vivianites of sedimentary origins in old collections that have not seriously deteriorated or completely deteriorated. The gist of his letter was that he was appalled at the high prices being charged for vivianites of sedimentary origin when the specimens were only a temporary feature in a collection. I believe his note to the MN was prompted by a recent (in 1991) find of some spectacular vivianites in Florida. These were selling at high prices that weren't justified for a mineral that would not last more than 20 years (if that long) in pristine condition. Watch out for those vivianites in the fossils from Kerch, Crimea. I'm not sure the picture is as bleak as Dr. Pough stated, but from my perspective, I agree with him on not spending more than a dollar on a vivianite of sedimentary origin. Regards, Lanny --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Thu Apr 21 10:34:57 2005 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Thu Apr 21 10:34:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vivianite In-Reply-To: <141.4428283d.2f993994@aol.com> References: <141.4428283d.2f993994@aol.com> Message-ID: <4267E441.9010206@xs4all.nl> I have several Vivianites from a number of localities and they all seem to be very stable over the past one or two decades. Of course I haven't analysed them, so they might not be Vivianite anymore (Metavivianite?). At least I did not see any visible change compared to references and when I got the samples. As for the instability of sedimentary Vivianite: Vivianite can be found as nodules in peat and bog. When you find them they are white or colorless pure Vivianite. But when they come into contact with air they turn blue rather quickly. This happens so quickly that you never see the white form, unless you dig them out yourself. Cheers, Maurice Lapidry@aol.com wrote: > >All: > >OK, Lanny gave an excellent, well written warning on vivianite from >sedimentary origins. Now, does anyone know if the Bolivian stuff is sedimentary? Like >Darryl Powell, the original person to post the question, I bought one at the >Rochester Symposium. They were a bit too nice and unusual to pass up. Do I >have a piece that is going to fall apart in a decade or two? > >Thanks, > >Dan > >In a message dated 4/21/2005 1:04:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, >lanny@lrream.com writes: > >Hi Alan and all, > >In general, and there may or may not be exceptions, vivianite from >sedimentary origins are unstable. Those of other origins are often >stable, or at least much more stable. Dr. Pough, wrote in the Mineral >News in January 1992, that he knows of no vivianites of sedimentary >origins in old collections that have not seriously deteriorated or >completely deteriorated. The gist of his letter was that he was >appalled at the high prices being charged for vivianites of sedimentary >origin when the specimens were only a temporary feature in a >collection. > >I believe his note to the MN was prompted by a recent (in 1991) find >of some spectacular vivianites in Florida. These were selling at high >prices that weren't justified for a mineral that would not last more >than 20 years (if that long) in pristine condition. > >Watch out for those vivianites in the fossils from Kerch, Crimea. I'm >not sure the picture is as bleak as Dr. Pough stated, but from my >perspective, I agree with him on not spending more than a dollar on a >vivianite of sedimentary origin. > >Regards, > >Lanny > > > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From murowchickj at umkc.edu Thu Apr 21 11:49:37 2005 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (James Murowchick) Date: Thu Apr 21 11:49:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vivianite In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lanny- I was very interested in Dr Pough's comment on the Florida vivianites. His comment was apparently made in 1992 when the vivianites were discovered about 1980 or 1981. (Those are the only ones from Florida that I've heard about. I haven't heard of a newer discovery in 1991.) My dad (Bernie Murowchick, Chief Mineralogist at IMC) was the one who discovered the crystals in the Clear Springs Mine near Bartow, FL. Several grad students and I drove down from Penn State to collect for a few days, and several others also collected the crystals in the short time before the site was flooded and then reclaimed. I still have quite a few crystals in the 1cm-4cm range, and they look perfectly healthy to me. They have been kept in the dark, but they are still gemmy. Where a crystal was damaged or distorted during growth (e.g., completely spanning a fracture so the young end is bent), a color change from dark green to dark blue is sometimes apparent. By and large, though, the perfect crystals are still green, transparent, and good looking. Most sedimentary vivanites are either fine-grained aggregates, or radiating crystals, and I suspect that they normally have quite a few defects in them that facilitate deterioration. That might be the cause for Dr. Pough's warning. However, based on the specimens I still have, I have doubts the warning should apply to the Clear Springs vivianite crystals. It's pushing 25 years since they were collected, and mine look fine. I would be interested in hearing from anyone who bought some of the Clear Springs Mine crystals who has seen them deteriorate. At worst, I would expect them to change color to a dark blue, but not fall apart. The Clear Springs Mine vivianites were found in two ways: in one, the crystals were free-standing in a 1/4 to 1-inch wide open fracture with rusty, hard phosphate rock on either wall. Some of the crystals were well-terminated, some spanned the gap, and were deformed at one end or the other. The free-standing, terminated crystals were not strained, and have held up very nicely while the bent crystals began to turn blue not long after being collected, though they did not fall apart, and remained transparent. The other mode of occurrence was where doubly-terminated crystals were "floaters" in soupy phosphatic pockets containing material with the consistency of toothpaste. These, too, are not strained, and have held up well. The deformed, defective crystals are the ones that showed a color change soon after collection, so I think that defects play an important role in vivianite deterioration. If anyone owning some of those vivianites has experienced deterioration of the crystals, I would like to know about it. Cheers, Jim Murowchick Dr. James B. Murowchick Associate Professor, Geology Department of Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall 5110 Rockhill Rd., Kansas City, MO 64110 816 235-2979 Fax: 816 235-5535 murowchickj@umkc.edu On 4/21/05 12:06 PM, "Lanny" wrote: > Hi Alan and all, > > In general, and there may or may not be exceptions, vivianite from > sedimentary origins are unstable. Those of other origins are often > stable, or at least much more stable. Dr. Pough, wrote in the Mineral > News in January 1992, that he knows of no vivianites of sedimentary > origins in old collections that have not seriously deteriorated or > completely deteriorated. The gist of his letter was that he was > appalled at the high prices being charged for vivianites of sedimentary > origin when the specimens were only a temporary feature in a > collection. > > I believe his note to the MN was prompted by a recent (in 1991) find > of some spectacular vivianites in Florida. These were selling at high > prices that weren't justified for a mineral that would not last more > than 20 years (if that long) in pristine condition. > > Watch out for those vivianites in the fossils from Kerch, Crimea. I'm > not sure the picture is as bleak as Dr. Pough stated, but from my > perspective, I agree with him on not spending more than a dollar on a > vivianite of sedimentary origin. > > Regards, > > Lanny > > On Apr 20, 2005, at 6:04 PM, Alan Goldstein wrote: > >> I am aware of both stable and unstable vivianite. The Troost >> collection still has a few vivianite specimens that are more than ~175 >> years old, but a lot of them are missing - either disintegrated or >> simply lost over the years. Same for copal, some are still around, >> others have disintegrated. >> >> Alan >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darryl Powell" >> >> To: "Rockhounds List" >> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 8:18 AM >> Subject: [Rockhounds] Vivianite >> >> >> Dear Mineral Colleagues, >> At the Rochester Symposium I picked up a vivianite crystal that >> came from Bolivia. Once home, I read in the mineral handbook that >> vivianites tend to deteriorate over time. What is your experience >> with vivianite? Are there any special precautions that could or >> should be taken? Thanks, in advance, for your wisdom. >> >> Darryl Powell >> Manchester, New York >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockcurrier at cs.com Thu Apr 21 13:15:34 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Thu Apr 21 13:11:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vivianite References: <200504210101.j3L11bu9026467@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <016201c546ae$e065f800$2eeaa5d8@rock5> Vivainite is unstable, but it will last a long time if you keep it cool and in complete darkness. Apparently what happens is that oxygen infiltrates in along the cleavages, oxidizing iron as it goes and turning the deep green vivianite to purple and eventually to black. How fast this happens depends on the conditions in which the vivianite is kept. The Canutillos mine, Bolivian vivianites are relatively new in the market, so no one knows what they will look like in 50 years but you can be sure that they existed in a nice green color in the red sandstone in the mine that produced them for thousands of yeas without changing to purple and black. When the material was first discovered it was in the canyon walls just below the mine and it looked like black sticks in the reddish sandstone. As soon as the rock was blasted a little, the beautiful green material appeared. Conditions in the rock, even a foot from the surface were such that the color of the vivianite was preserved. Match those conditions, what ever they were, (cool, constant temperature, low oxygen content? high humidity, etc???) and your vivianites will also last for thousands of years. Put them out in the sunlight and you will soon see a change. Color changes in minerals is not a popular topic with mineral dealers and for good reason. Tell a customer, especially a retail customer that the mineral is unstable and the color may change and you have lost a sale. Much better to dwell on the other virtues of the specimen. Also, there is little hard data on what changes will take place in what specimens under specific conditions, so why warn the customer about something that might not happen. Rock From tim at orerockon.com Thu Apr 21 13:50:51 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Apr 21 13:51:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Plush, OR Sunstone fee digging In-Reply-To: <4267C947.6000002@att.net> References: <62.5351cc5d.2f97192c@aol.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20050420080556.026b1cd0@mail.spiritone.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20050420171656.02659870@mail.spiritone.com> <000501c5460b$13638140$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <4267C947.6000002@att.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050421134200.026a6170@mail.spiritone.com> Their fee structure has remained the same since I first went there in 1994 or 5. The website is confusing, but the "ore that can be screened for a fee" is the tailings pile that you pay a fee and screen all you want for no additional fee per stone. The rest of the description on the site refers to digging in the pit on your own for stones at the less-than-wholesale rate. The public area, IMHO, is for people who want to waste a lot of time and energy finding smaller and lower quality stones than they could find at the Dust Devil for free, or for a one-time fee. Many visitors to the Dust Devil just walk the pit and go home with a baggie of good size clears and light schillers that took no more effort than bending over to pick up. In fact, it is so little used that I wonder when someone is going to ask the BLM to reverse their set-aside so they can claim part of it. Not that I would like to see that, but the decline in use of the area since the Dust Devil set up their fee dig is amazing. And, the Dust Devil's directions are accurate, since they got the GPS coords from me :) At 08:39 AM 4/21/2005, you wrote: >jaybates wrote: >>The Dustdevil has apparently not changed their fee structure unless they >>have done so and not changed their web site. >>The price of precious opal in Virgin Valley has gone up considerable this >>year at a couple of the mines. The Royal Peacock is charging $90/day to dig >>the bank and $40/day for the tailings. Rainbow Ridge is charging $300/load >>and $40/day for the tailings. The Opal Queen is charging $1000/day for four >>and no tailings digging. >>If you can't get in touch with Chris just go there, to his sunstone mine. >>There should be someone there to help you if he is not there. Keep trying to >>get contact Chris as he can be most helpful. His mine is just across the >>road from the Dustdevil. >Does anyone have directions? The map on the web page doesn't display >properly in either Firefox or Internet Explorer. > >Postscript: I've just looked at the website for the Dust Devil. They have >excellent directions, and even GPS coordinates. The map also indicates >that there is a public sunstone collection area. Does anyone know anything >about that? (I wouldn't expect much from a public area, but you never know.) Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From tim at orerockon.com Thu Apr 21 13:59:29 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Apr 21 13:59:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Plush, OR Sunstone fee digging In-Reply-To: <1de.39f8e85e.2f992b87@aol.com> References: <1de.39f8e85e.2f992b87@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050421135119.026cd340@mail.spiritone.com> Clearance is not the issue in the Rabbit Hills, it's rain, which turns poorly graded roads into sandpitted death traps. Hit a soupy sandpit at 40 mph and you are off the road in a heartbeat. No ruts on any of the roads, including the "shortcut" from the north, pose a threat to even a Cadillac. I take the shortcut every time I go with my Ram 2500 and a 27' trailer. In fact, if the roads are recently graded, a Caddy will do just fine getting in & out. The county has been doing a better job of grading the past few years, helped along by some mysterious midnight deliveries of crushed tailings to the sandpits from an unidentified dump truck driven by a big smelly guy with a dirty beard :) Just a clarification: the Dust Devil is across the road from, not in, the public collecting area, which is fairly well signed by the BLM with little green triangles on fenceposts. Wandering off the public area can get you in some trouble since it is completely surrounded by claims, if you don't look up :) At 09:15 AM 4/21/2005, you wrote: >The Dust Devil is in the midst of the public area. You can easily surface >collect plain sunstone all over the place within sight of the Dust Devil. A >screen will net you even more. To get to the nice greens and reds though >will >take you much more work than you have to expend at commercial sites, like >the >Dust Devil. They've done much of the digging for you. In my book, worth the >money. In either case, be prepared for a long ride back poorly marked dirt >roads once you leave the main road. With luck, maybe you will go in right >after >they've freshly graded the roads and they aren't rutted up. Not an area >for low > clearance vehicles. > >Good luck on digging... it is a lot of fun, > >Dan Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From roughrock at gmail.com Thu Apr 21 17:45:13 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Thu Apr 21 17:45:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vivianite In-Reply-To: <016201c546ae$e065f800$2eeaa5d8@rock5> References: <200504210101.j3L11bu9026467@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <016201c546ae$e065f800$2eeaa5d8@rock5> Message-ID: On 4/21/05, Rock Currier wrote: > > Vivainite is unstable, but it will last a long time if you keep it cool > > Color changes in minerals is not a popular topic with mineral dealers and > for good reason. Tell a customer, especially a retail customer that the > mineral is unstable and the color may change and you have lost a sale. Much > better to dwell on the other virtues of the specimen. Also, there is little > hard data on what changes will take place in what specimens under specific > conditions, so why warn the customer about something that might not happen. > ------------------------------------------------------ How about old-fashioned honesty, Rock? What you are suggesting is dishonesty through omission.And how do you know if the guy asking the question already knows the answer but is trying to decide if he can trust you enough to buy a specimen? Since I'm a buyer most of the time that statement is kind of insulting. If a dealer is honest with me I'll buy from them over and over. If they misled me once --or let me ruin a piece I bought -- just because they want to make a sale, it is unlikely I'll buy from them again. However, dealers who treat me with integrity will be my first stop at a show. If I think a dealer is honest I look for them. If I think they are dishonest I stop and look and ask questions but I never buy. And often I'll ask a few novice questions when I first meet someone. By asking question that I already know the answer too, I can usually find out if a dealer is honest. Unfortunately, I don't always know enough to ask the right question. A few years ago some folks were selling white turquoise on Ebay. I had an email I could "cut & paste." There were several questions on it, like "is it really turquoise?" and "if it is turquoise why is it white?" I didn't really care what they said. I wasn't going to buy any of that white stuff. I had a letter from the Nevada Division of Mines that said they had analyzed that stuff and it only contained "trace amounts" of turquoise. I had a lot of fun with that letter. One person reported me to Ebay for TOS violations when I posted his answer and the Nevada Division of Mines letter at Bob's Rock Shop. Ebay decided in my favor. Grant From rockcurrier at cs.com Fri Apr 22 03:14:32 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Fri Apr 22 03:10:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 11, Issue 23 References: <200504220100.j3M10ocQ020596@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <016a01c54724$14341700$2eeaa5d8@rock5> Grant Said: How about old-fashioned honesty, Rock? What you are suggesting is dishonesty through omission.And how do you know if the guy asking the question already knows the answer but is trying to decide if he can trust you enough to buy a specimen? Since I'm a buyer most of the time that statement is kind of insulting. If a dealer is honest with me I'll buy from them over and over. If they misled me once --or let me ruin a piece I bought -- just because they want to make a sale, it is unlikely I'll buy from them again. However, dealers who treat me with integrity will be my first stop at a show. If I think a dealer is honest I look for them. If I think they are dishonest I stop and look and ask questions but I never buy. And often I'll ask a few novice questions when I first meet someone. By asking question that I already know the answer too, I can usually find out if a dealer is honest. Unfortunately, I don't always know enough to ask the right question. A few years ago some folks were selling white turquoise on Ebay. I had an email I could "cut & paste." There were several questions on it, like "is it really turquoise?" and "if it is turquoise why is it white?" I didn't really care what they said. I wasn't going to buy any of that white stuff. I had a letter from the Nevada Division of Mines that said they had analyzed that stuff and it only contained "trace amounts" of turquoise. I had a lot of fun with that letter. One person reported me to Ebay for TOS violations when I posted his answer and the Nevada Division of Mines letter at Bob's Rock Shop. Ebay decided in my favor. Grant, I am just pointing out the way things are. Asking dealers for advice about specimens you want to buy is not a good idea. You will not get a balanced picture. Get advice from almost anyone else than the person trying to sell you something. You are asking to be diddled. I spend a lot more time that I should trying to be honest with people, like telling you all exactly where the new Bolivian vivianites come from. Having imported several thousands of them I could rather say that not one of my customers have noted any changes in them rather than some of them do tend to fall of the matrix or some of the matrix fall off the specimen. I could have waxed eloquent on their gem quality and transparency and neglect to point out that their cleavage and softness makes it almost impossible to cut them as gems. Once in a while trying to be honest is rewarded with remarks like yours above. I am a wholesail dealer and generally don't interact much with retail customers like you because I find myself spending a lot of time I don't have trying to educate them. If you find my presence and contributions to this blog offensive I will gladly decline further contributions. Yours truly, Rock Currier From jr50wv at yahoo.com Fri Apr 22 12:27:46 2005 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Fri Apr 22 12:27:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vivianite Message-ID: <20050422192746.32404.qmail@web41005.mail.yahoo.com> Hi: I have a couple of really nice old vivianites from Bolivia, and asked around about why they turn dark, knowing that they did but not being sure why. Some said that it was exposure to light that darkened them, but others were certain that it was exposure to oxygen that slowly penetrates the crystal and binds with the Fe, causing it to darken. But I didn't know vivianites were susceptable to physical damage that could cause them to decrepitate! Can anyone talk more about how Vivs can come to decompose? I've never heard about that - well, except for dropping / stepping on them ;) Thanks, JR __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From teyancey at mail.tca.net Fri Apr 22 19:08:54 2005 From: teyancey at mail.tca.net (Thomas Yancey) Date: Fri Apr 22 19:07:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 11, Issue 23 In-Reply-To: <016a01c54724$14341700$2eeaa5d8@rock5> References: <200504220100.j3M10ocQ020596@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <016a01c54724$14341700$2eeaa5d8@rock5> Message-ID: Rock, Grant's comment was not written in the most delicate or diplomatic manner, but it was not meant as a criticism of your business activities and no one would think that to be the case. As you point out, it is " just .... the way things are" among the less knowledgeable people in the hobby, the ones who support the dealers by providing the money that allows them to make a living. I see the comment as an appeal for more information and more teaching about the minerals. That is just exactly what you have been doing by providing your comments to this list group. Please do not withdraw from the group. Your discussions on Indian cavansite and Bolivian vivianite has been wonderful insights and I hope that you are able to share more observations and comments of this type. Most of us do not have the time or desire to read the mineral literature thoroughly, so your short discussions are a great way to learn about some mineral sites. I am certain that many of us in the list group are pleased to have you contribute from time to time, so please do so. Although opinion vary and levels of awareness varies, we are a pretty reasonable group of people on this list group. One of the better list groups I have seen, thanks in part to Aaron's gentle guidance. T. Yancey >Grant Said: > >How about old-fashioned honesty, Rock? What you are suggesting is >dishonesty through omission.And how do you know if the guy asking the >question already knows the answer but is trying to decide if he can >trust you enough to buy a specimen? > >Since I'm a buyer most of the time that statement is kind of >insulting. If a dealer is honest with me I'll buy from them over and >over. If they misled me once --or let me ruin a piece I bought -- just snip > >Grant, >I am just pointing out the way things are. Asking dealers for advice about >specimens you want to buy is not a good idea. You will not get a balanced >picture. Get advice from almost anyone else than the person trying to sell >you something. You are asking to be diddled. I spend a lot more time that I >should trying to be honest with people, like telling you all exactly where >the new Bolivian vivianites come from. Having imported several thousands of >them I could rather say that not one of my customers have noted any changes >in them rather than some of them do tend to fall of the matrix or some of >the matrix fall off the specimen. I could have waxed eloquent on their gem >quality and transparency and neglect to point out that their cleavage and >softness makes it almost impossible to cut them as gems. > >Once in a while trying to be honest is rewarded with remarks like yours >above. I am a wholesail dealer and generally don't interact much with retail >customers like you because I find myself spending a lot of time I don't have >trying to educate them. If you find my presence and contributions to this >blog offensive I will gladly decline further contributions. > >Yours truly, Rock Currier -- Thomas Yancey From curiogeo7 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 22 19:34:21 2005 From: curiogeo7 at yahoo.com (George Hall) Date: Fri Apr 22 19:34:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 11, Issue 23 In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050423023421.98784.qmail@web50502.mail.yahoo.com> Rock,Grant ,and group, As a mineral dealer myself,Ive found I spend about 1/3 of my time explaneing about minerals to folk(yes even my customers,and yes I do loose sales,due to honesty,however,I find no dishonesty in rocks way of doing buessnes,it is up to the buyer to know,not only what he/she wants,but what they are buying. I have also delt with dishonest buyers,the guys,and gals that play games(grants is one of the minor ones),scam,and cheat. I can only laugh at the world we live in,and educate my self,and my clients,and keep on keeping on,as my love of stone and minerals,digging,and mineing is all there is for me,and the liveing it provides me seems to be enough to keep me going. this group is one of the ways folk do get to know more about minerals,and I guess I belive it is up to those involved in the "trade"to pass on as much info as we can,when asked(Ha lost sales by telling to much!!). curiogeo7 > G.C.HALL&CO. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From kahako at verizon.net Fri Apr 22 20:19:46 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Apr 22 20:19:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dealer honesty WAS: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 11, Issue 23 In-Reply-To: References: <200504220100.j3M10ocQ020596@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <016a01c54724$14341700$2eeaa5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050422171236.0263fbb0@incoming.verizon.net> I agree with T. Yancey. I also think that both Grant and Rock have made great contributions to this list. Please, guys, don't either of you continue to be upset by this matter. Let's move on. Also PLEASE change the topic in the subject line, especially when it is a Digest issue. Aloha, Kitty At 04:08 PM 4/22/2005, you wrote: >Rock, > >Grant's comment was not written in the most delicate or diplomatic manner, >but it was not meant as a criticism of your business activities and no one >would think that to be the case. >Although opinion vary and levels of awareness varies, we are a pretty >reasonable group of people on this list group. One of the better list >groups I have seen, thanks in part to Aaron's gentle guidance. > >T. Yancey From lanny at lrream.com Fri Apr 22 21:27:07 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Fri Apr 22 21:25:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vivianite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jim, My mistake on the year. Dr. Pough was referring to a mention by Isaias Casanova of having recently (late 1991) seen a dealer's stash of the vivianites from the early 1980s find. I think Dr. Pough may have been a little harsh, but in general, sedimentary vivianites have not proven to be stable. I wonder if the Florida vivianites, or any other coarse sedimentary vivianites will survive over long times. 25 years is quite a while, and if still looking good, that would make one have faith in their stability and may well prove that some sedimentary vivianites are stable. I do believe that the fine grain size of a lot of sedimentary vivianite is a big factor in their disintegration (similarly, I notice that in my collection, the pyrites that are falling apart are those that are aggregates of small crystals). Dr. Pough specifically mentioned coarse vivianite crystals from Anloua, N'Gaoundere, Cameroon that were collected in the 1970s that had already started to fall apart. Apparently these were large coarse crystals that everyone drooled over and paid big bucks for. I don't have any vivianite (except two cheap ones from Idaho, so I'm not going to worry), and the stability factor is a major factor in why I don't have any. I just get to watch my laumontites fall apart. Regards, Lanny On Apr 21, 2005, at 11:49 AM, James Murowchick wrote: > Lanny- > > I was very interested in Dr Pough's comment on the Florida > vivianites. > His comment was apparently made in 1992 when the vivianites were > discovered > about 1980 or 1981. (Those are the only ones from Florida that I've > heard > about. I haven't heard of a newer discovery in 1991.) My dad (Bernie > Murowchick, Chief Mineralogist at IMC) was the one who discovered the > crystals in the Clear Springs Mine near Bartow, FL. Several grad > students > and I drove down from Penn State to collect for a few days, and several > others also collected the crystals in the short time before the site > was > flooded and then reclaimed. I still have quite a few crystals in the > 1cm-4cm range, and they look perfectly healthy to me. They have been > kept > in the dark, but they are still gemmy. Where a crystal was damaged or > distorted during growth (e.g., completely spanning a fracture so the > young > end is bent), a color change from dark green to dark blue is sometimes > apparent. By and large, though, the perfect crystals are still green, > transparent, and good looking. > > Most sedimentary vivanites are either fine-grained aggregates, or > radiating crystals, and I suspect that they normally have quite a few > defects in them that facilitate deterioration. That might be the > cause for > Dr. Pough's warning. However, based on the specimens I still have, I > have > doubts the warning should apply to the Clear Springs vivianite > crystals. > It's pushing 25 years since they were collected, and mine look fine. I > would be interested in hearing from anyone who bought some of the Clear > Springs Mine crystals who has seen them deteriorate. At worst, I would > expect them to change color to a dark blue, but not fall apart. > > The Clear Springs Mine vivianites were found in two ways: in one, > the > crystals were free-standing in a 1/4 to 1-inch wide open fracture with > rusty, hard phosphate rock on either wall. Some of the crystals were > well-terminated, some spanned the gap, and were deformed at one end or > the > other. The free-standing, terminated crystals were not strained, and > have > held up very nicely while the bent crystals began to turn blue not long > after being collected, though they did not fall apart, and remained > transparent. > > The other mode of occurrence was where doubly-terminated crystals > were > "floaters" in soupy phosphatic pockets containing material with the > consistency of toothpaste. These, too, are not strained, and have > held up > well. The deformed, defective crystals are the ones that showed a > color > change soon after collection, so I think that defects play an > important role > in vivianite deterioration. > > If anyone owning some of those vivianites has experienced > deterioration > of the crystals, I would like to know about it. > > Cheers, > Jim Murowchick > > > Dr. James B. Murowchick > Associate Professor, Geology > Department of Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall > 5110 Rockhill Rd., Kansas City, MO 64110 > 816 235-2979 Fax: 816 235-5535 > murowchickj@umkc.edu > > > > On 4/21/05 12:06 PM, "Lanny" wrote: > >> Hi Alan and all, >> >> In general, and there may or may not be exceptions, vivianite from >> sedimentary origins are unstable. Those of other origins are often >> stable, or at least much more stable. Dr. Pough, wrote in the Mineral >> News in January 1992, that he knows of no vivianites of sedimentary >> origins in old collections that have not seriously deteriorated or >> completely deteriorated. The gist of his letter was that he was >> appalled at the high prices being charged for vivianites of >> sedimentary >> origin when the specimens were only a temporary feature in a >> collection. >> >> I believe his note to the MN was prompted by a recent (in 1991) find >> of some spectacular vivianites in Florida. These were selling at high >> prices that weren't justified for a mineral that would not last more >> than 20 years (if that long) in pristine condition. >> >> Watch out for those vivianites in the fossils from Kerch, Crimea. I'm >> not sure the picture is as bleak as Dr. Pough stated, but from my >> perspective, I agree with him on not spending more than a dollar on a >> vivianite of sedimentary origin. >> >> Regards, >> >> Lanny >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From jackgraham at gbronline.com Sat Apr 23 10:29:04 2005 From: jackgraham at gbronline.com (Jack Graham) Date: Sat Apr 23 10:33:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lapidary Equipment References: Message-ID: <021d01c5482a$7c655850$80f0bfcf@Homework> I have really enjoyed the discussion on lapiday equipment as I am new to this and do not have any. But I have started looking. I have joineda local rock club and met a lot of great people. Have even started taking classes from one of the members. I have watched E-Bay and the local papers for anything reasonable, and no suck luck yet. But I have kind of a Wish List: 4-6 station cabbing unit with 6" - 8" wheels Polishing wheel 10" slab saw Trim saw Now here are my questions.... What am I missing? What else should I have? What do I not NEED, but whoud be helpful? Thank you Jack From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Sat Apr 23 11:47:24 2005 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Linda Rasmussen) Date: Sat Apr 23 11:50:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lapidary Equipment References: <021d01c5482a$7c655850$80f0bfcf@Homework> Message-ID: <000c01c54834$e559e420$695fe842@pavilion> Hi Jack, It appears you are already well directed, you may want to pick up a couple different types of templates for cabs and things along with aluminum scribes to mark your cuts, one also will need a small trim saw, if you go to some of the Equipment shops on line you will find one, I have went to Home Depo and picked up a 7" wet tile saw for only $ 68., is has a 7" diamond saw blade with it but its a little wide for some of the close cabs on the rock slab, but it can be replaced with a darn good blade with continues diamond rim for as I recall about $30. from www.eloxite.com which is a wholesale on line store, you may want to spend some time in the store due to the amount of excellent buckles and jewelry findings they have. Picking up an Opti visor is a good idea too, surprising what is missed without one. Perhaps you will need a water coolant that is good for cutting and working the cabs also..... But above all, have fun......good luck. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Graham To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 11:29 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Lapidary Equipment > I have really enjoyed the discussion on lapiday equipment as I am new to > this and do not have any. > > But I have started looking. > > I have joineda local rock club and met a lot of great people. > > Have even started taking classes from one of the members. > > I have watched E-Bay and the local papers for anything reasonable, and no > suck luck yet. > > But I have kind of a Wish List: > > > 4-6 station cabbing unit with 6" - 8" wheels > Polishing wheel > 10" slab saw > Trim saw > > Now here are my questions.... > > What am I missing? > > What else should I have? > > What do I not NEED, but whoud be helpful? > > Thank you > Jack > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From roughrock at gmail.com Sat Apr 23 11:51:43 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Sat Apr 23 11:51:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lapidary Equipment In-Reply-To: <021d01c5482a$7c655850$80f0bfcf@Homework> References: <021d01c5482a$7c655850$80f0bfcf@Homework> Message-ID: On 4/23/05, Jack Graham wrote: > 4-6 station cabbing unit with 6" - 8" wheels > Polishing wheel > > Where do you live? I have some cabbing equipment I haven't used in years and the chance that I'll get back to using it is slim. I had not really thought about selling but if you are in the area you are wellcome to use it -- or even buy it. A few years ago I let another person use it, but other than that it has just sat idle for about 5 years. Grant Johnston, Chico, CA From roughrock at gmail.com Sat Apr 23 12:33:58 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Sat Apr 23 12:34:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 11, Issue 23 In-Reply-To: <20050423023421.98784.qmail@web50502.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050423023421.98784.qmail@web50502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 4/22/05, George Hall wrote: > I have also delt with dishonest buyers,the guys,and > gals that play games(grants is one of the minor > ones),scam,and cheat. George, In addition to learning about the rocks I'm buying I think it is important to learn about the dealer I'm buying from. That is what my "game" is designed to do. A lot of time the person selling lapidary rough doesn't really know much about it. They are just business people who bought something wholesale and they are selling it retail. They are the people who usually answer my question with another question. I ask, "Is that blue rock natural or dyed?" and they say, "How would you dye a rock?" I get something from that exchange, some knowledge about their honesty. They are uninformed about their product but they are not intentionally dishonest. On the other hand, that white turquoise scam was started by people who knew that what they were selling was not turquoise. They even had a "Certificate of Authenticity" from the Nevada Bureau of Mines to support their deception. I could never find out what the certificate said. They would not send me one unless I purchased some of their product. I did find out the Nevada Bureau of Mines does not issue "Certificates of Authenticity." Was it a game I was playing? It eventually became one but it started out with me trying to decide if I was dealing with a person I could trust. Most dealers are honest but the ones who are dishonest give the rest of you a bad name. And I think it is in bad taste for a honest dealer to not disclose something that affects value. It is in bad taste for a wholesaler to suggest that dealers not disclose something that affects value. I bought a frozen fish one time and when I got it home and it started to thaw, the stink almost forced me out of my house. If I buy a rock and it starts to fall apart in sunlight it stinks -- just like the rotten fish. Grant From kahako at verizon.net Sat Apr 23 16:59:32 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Apr 23 16:59:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] SUBJECT CHANGE! Rockhounds Digest, Vol 11, Issue 23 In-Reply-To: References: <20050423023421.98784.qmail@web50502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050423135722.025fff38@incoming.verizon.net> PLEASE change the title in the subject line!!! Mahalo, Kitty At 09:33 AM 4/23/2005, you wrote: >On 4/22/05, George Hall wrote: > > > I have also delt with dishonest buyers,the guys,and > > gals that play games(grants is one of the minor > > ones),scam,and cheat. > >In addition to learning about the rocks I'm buying I think it is >important to learn about the dealer I'm buying from. That is what my > >Grant From Tourmalineminer at aol.com Sat Apr 23 23:14:51 2005 From: Tourmalineminer at aol.com (Tourmalineminer@aol.com) Date: Sat Apr 23 23:14:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free Sunstone Dig a Spectrum Mine Message-ID: <128.5b839e44.2f9c935b@aol.com> There is an alternative for fee digging sunstone and having to pay high prices for what you find. We are offering free digging at no charge at the Spectrum Sunstone Mine. You keep whatever you find at no charge regardless of value. We guarantee that everyone finds reds, greens and schiller stones. We will give everyone that comes up to the mine and mentions this posting......a 15 carat facet grade Red Labradorite (sunstone) and one faceted sunstone free of charge. We are doing this to promote Spectrum Sunstone Mines and show that there are OTHER sources of high gem quality sunstone being produced and to promote the stone and increase the sunstone market. We currently own more colored sunstone producing claims than any other company and it is easier to find colored and schiller sunstones at Spectrum than at any other sunstone fee dig that I know of. On average, we find some color or schiller almost every screen full of dirt. Some of the stones found exceed 300 carats in weight. We also plan to have our commercial gem screening plant and conveyer picking belt running this summer. When it is running (it was damaged due to vandalism) we will allow all that come to the mine to pick sunstones off the belt and keep all they find without all the work of digging and screening it. We also have a rock shop with gems and minerals for sale from all of our mines including the Himalaya Tourmaline Mine as well as around the world. We are also in the process of putting up manufactured housing at the mine which will be available for our guests to stay in. (no more pit toilets!!) We expect this to be ready by June. There is also camping available on the property. We also have an abundant supply of fresh water from our well for the public to use as well as a swimming pool, badminton, volleyball and a desert golf course (balls not included) We officially open to the public on May 15 and close October 31 Our website is www.highdesertgemsand minerals.com Our map was temporarily down but is once again working. Hope to see you all up there. P.S. My inspiration to let the public dig for free on Spectrum came from Tim Fisher and some friends of his. Hope to see you up here Tim. Chris Rose Tourmalineminer@aol.com 775)772-7724 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Sun Apr 24 07:29:12 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun Apr 24 07:29:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free Sunstone Dig a Spectrum Mine In-Reply-To: <128.5b839e44.2f9c935b@aol.com> References: <128.5b839e44.2f9c935b@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050424072452.026f1928@mail.spiritone.com> Civility was never your style, Chris. I hope that remark made you feel better. And to correct your little "dig" at me, you had a "free" sunstone mine before you knew me from Adam. P.S. And say hi to your "customer", "Jessica", for me. No, I was not born yesterday, despite what you may have thought. At 11:14 PM 4/23/2005, you wrote: >P.S. My inspiration to let the public dig for free on Spectrum came from Tim >Fisher and some friends of his. Hope to see you up here Tim. > >Chris Rose Tourmalineminer@aol.com 775)772-7724 Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From pbhewitt at comcast.net Sun Apr 24 10:47:41 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul Hewitt) Date: Sun Apr 24 10:47:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] polishing fluorite References: <128.5b839e44.2f9c935b@aol.com> Message-ID: <000d01c548f5$bca2cb20$6501a8c0@maingear> I received a nice quantity of fluorite rough from another member of this list. I am really pleased with it but I am having problems getting it to polish up. Since it is so soft I did not leave it in the rough stage very long but I did the usual time for pre-polish. When I ran it through the polish stage it keeps coming out looking like beach glass (in fact thats what my girlfriend thought it was). I tried vibe tumbling and rotary tumbling and left them in longer than usual in hopes of getting a polish but nothing has worked. Is there a secret to tumbling fluorite that I have not heard about yet? Paul in Marietta From roughrock at gmail.com Sun Apr 24 12:21:16 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Sun Apr 24 12:21:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free Sunstone Dig a Spectrum Mine In-Reply-To: <128.5b839e44.2f9c935b@aol.com> References: <128.5b839e44.2f9c935b@aol.com> Message-ID: Did I misss something? When I clicked the URL it went to a site about ceramics? On 4/23/05, Tourmalineminer@aol.com wrote: > There is an alternative for fee digging sunstone and having to pay high > prices for what you find. We are offering free digging at no charge at the > Spectrum Sunstone Mine. You keep whatever you find at no charge regardless of value. > We guarantee that everyone finds reds, greens and schiller stones. We will > give everyone that comes up to the mine and mentions this posting......a 15 > carat facet grade Red Labradorite (sunstone) and one faceted sunstone free of > charge. We are doing this to promote Spectrum Sunstone Mines and show that > there are OTHER sources of high gem quality sunstone being produced and to promote > the stone and increase the sunstone market. We currently own more colored > sunstone producing claims than any other company and it is easier to find > colored and schiller sunstones at Spectrum than at any other sunstone fee dig that I > know of. On average, we find some color or schiller almost every screen full > of dirt. Some of the stones found exceed 300 carats in weight. We also plan > to have our commercial gem screening plant and conveyer picking belt running > this summer. When it is running (it was damaged due to vandalism) we will > allow all that come to the mine to pick sunstones off the belt and keep all they > find without all the work of digging and screening it. We also have a rock > shop with gems and minerals for sale from all of our mines including the > Himalaya Tourmaline Mine as well as around the world. We are also in the process of > putting up manufactured housing at the mine which will be available for our > guests to stay in. (no more pit toilets!!) We expect this to be ready by June. > There is also camping available on the property. We also have an abundant > supply of fresh water from our well for the public to use as well as a swimming > pool, badminton, volleyball and a desert golf course (balls not included) > We officially open to the public on May 15 and close October 31 > Our website is www.highdesertgemsand minerals.com Our map was temporarily > down but is once again working. Hope to see you all up there. > > P.S. My inspiration to let the public dig for free on Spectrum came from Tim > Fisher and some friends of his. Hope to see you up here Tim. > > Chris Rose Tourmalineminer@aol.com 775)772-7724 > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From Lapidry at aol.com Sun Apr 24 12:42:53 2005 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Sun Apr 24 12:42:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free Sunstone Dig a Spectrum Mine Message-ID: <201.38d9c7.2f9d50bd@aol.com> (http://www.highdesertgemsandminerals.com) You have to take the space out of the e-mail listed below - try this one: www.highdesertgemsandminerals.com Dan In a message dated 4/24/2005 3:21:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, roughrock@gmail.com writes: Did I misss something? When I clicked the URL it went to a site about ceramics? On 4/23/05, Tourmalineminer@aol.com wrote: > There is an alternative for fee digging sunstone and having to pay high > prices for what you find. We are offering free digging at no charge at the > Spectrum Sunstone Mine. You keep whatever you find at no charge regardless of value. > We guarantee that everyone finds reds, greens and schiller stones. We will > give everyone that comes up to the mine and mentions this posting......a 15 > carat facet grade Red Labradorite (sunstone) and one faceted sunstone free of > charge. We are doing this to promote Spectrum Sunstone Mines and show that > there are OTHER sources of high gem quality sunstone being produced and to promote > the stone and increase the sunstone market. We currently own more colored > sunstone producing claims than any other company and it is easier to find > colored and schiller sunstones at Spectrum than at any other sunstone fee dig that I > know of. On average, we find some color or schiller almost every screen full > of dirt. Some of the stones found exceed 300 carats in weight. We also plan > to have our commercial gem screening plant and conveyer picking belt running > this summer. When it is running (it was damaged due to vandalism) we will > allow all that come to the mine to pick sunstones off the belt and keep all they > find without all the work of digging and screening it. We also have a rock > shop with gems and minerals for sale from all of our mines including the > Himalaya Tourmaline Mine as well as around the world. We are also in the process of > putting up manufactured housing at the mine which will be available for our > guests to stay in. (no more pit toilets!!) We expect this to be ready by June. > There is also camping available on the property. We also have an abundant > supply of fresh water from our well for the public to use as well as a swimming > pool, badminton, volleyball and a desert golf course (balls not included) > We officially open to the public on May 15 and close October 31 > Our website is www.highdesertgemsand minerals.com Our map was temporarily > down but is once again working. Hope to see you all up there. > > P.S. My inspiration to let the public dig for free on Spectrum came from Tim > Fisher and some friends of his. Hope to see you up here Tim. > > Chris Rose Tourmalineminer@aol.com 775)772-7724 > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Apr 24 12:58:12 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Apr 24 12:52:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] polishing fluorite References: <128.5b839e44.2f9c935b@aol.com> <000d01c548f5$bca2cb20$6501a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <426BF8F6.74FD@Tomaszewski.net> Paul, Fluorite is a difficult material to polish. It has a nasty habit of breaking off micro amounts of the surface, along cleavage planes, as it is worked. Flat surfaces are somewhat easier because you can start from a clean cleavage plane, but it is still tough with fluorite. Curved surfaces, or flat ones not aligned to a cleavage plane, tend to make micro wedges all over their surface. In the 1930s the problem of polishing fluorite surfaces was solved by Ziess for making telescopes. The fluorite lenses were polished as best as possible (somewhat frosted) and immersed in oil with a RI closely matching fluorite, sandwiched between conventional glass lens elements. It wasn't until 1977 that Cannon, partnering with a Japanese firm, found a way to polish fluorite so air spaced lenses could be made. The only thing I've found that sometimes works is a nylon mesh polisher and a very light touch. I think both cerium oxide and rouge work. You can make a mesh polisher by tightly strecthing several layers of nylon pantyhose over a conventional polishing disk and securing it with wire or duct tape. Work fairly wet after rubbing polish into the mesh. I wish you luck polishing fluorite. Kreigh Paul Hewitt wrote: > > I received a nice quantity of fluorite rough from another member of this > list. I am really pleased with it but I am having problems getting it to > polish up. Since it is so soft I did not leave it in the rough stage very > long but I did the usual time for pre-polish. When I ran it through the > polish stage it keeps coming out looking like beach glass (in fact thats > what my girlfriend thought it was). I tried vibe tumbling and rotary > tumbling and left them in longer than usual in hopes of getting a polish but > nothing has worked. Is there a secret to tumbling fluorite that I have not > heard about yet? > > Paul in Marietta From Tourmalineminer at aol.com Sun Apr 24 18:33:24 2005 From: Tourmalineminer at aol.com (Tourmalineminer@aol.com) Date: Sun Apr 24 18:33:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Spectrum Mine Free Sunstone Dig Message-ID: <1a1.32708d7c.2f9da2e4@aol.com> Tim, I guess I don't see how inviting you to the sunstone mine to dig for free is a dig at you. I'm very sorry you took it that way. I really would like to finally meet you and hope you do come to the mine. By the way there was an incorrect space in the URL the correct website address for more info on the free Sunstone dig is www.highdesertgemsandminerals.com Chris Rose Tourmalineminer@aol.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From JWachsmuth at gmx.de Sat Apr 23 01:52:56 2005 From: JWachsmuth at gmx.de (Juergen Wachsmuth) Date: Mon Apr 25 09:39:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Response to Rock Currier References: <200504220100.j3M10ocQ020596@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <016a01c54724$14341700$2eeaa5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <426A0CE8.88B22639@gmx.de> Hello, let me say I appreciate your efforts when you are writing your contributions. You make available information that is not readily available to me from other sources, and I saved several of your emails. Please do not withdraw from the group despite disagreement you caused by speaking frankly. Regards J?rgen Wachsmuth Ulm - Germany From morningstar at att.net Mon Apr 25 11:51:17 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Mon Apr 25 11:51:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] FW: "whisker pyrite" (request for assistance) Message-ID: <042520051851.27430.426D3C250005404400006B2621602807489D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Greetings, The following is a request from the Society of Mineral Museum Professionals mailing list, one I found worth sharing with the public. What he is seeking might also be known as "filiform pyrite" or "hair pyrite." I know that Sugar Grove, West Virginia, has vesicular basalt with filiform pyrite, nontronite, and other goodies included. I don't know if filiform (or fibrous, or whisker, or hairy) pyrite occurs anywhere else, but this might be an opportunity to have it studied and analyzed. I don't know if Dr. Sicree is willing to trade or not. Anyone who has such as specimen of pyrite and is willing to offer it should contact him directly using the info provided below. Thanks, Don -------------- Forwarded Message: -------------- From: "Andrew A. Sicree" > Dear Fellow Mineralogists: > > Road-building near State College, PA, has uncovered > a large body of pyrite hosted in a sandstone - much > to the annoyance of the Dept of Transportation. > > Some pyrite at this site exhibits a wide array > of unusual morphologies. "Whiskers" are one form, > but we also have shapes similar to "match-sticks", "laths" > "boards", "boxes", and some much more unusual. > > I'm trying to get some good SEM images for publication. > Most crystals are 0.1 mm and smaller. > > I'd like to know > > (a) if you know of localities for "whisker" pyrites or other unusual > shapes of pyrite, and if so, what are they? > > (b) if your collections have specimens, can I get samples for study? > > Thanks, > > Andrew Sicree > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Andrew A. Sicree, Ph.D. > Earth & Mineral Sciences Museum > Pennsylvania State University > 112 Steidle Building > University Park, PA 16802 > phone: (814) 865-6427 > email: > ---------------------------------------------------------------- From herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be Mon Apr 25 12:43:08 2005 From: herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be (herwig pelckmans) Date: Mon Apr 25 12:47:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Response to Rock Currier & Grant References: <200504220100.j3M10ocQ020596@bubbleator.drizzle.com><016a01c54724$14341700$2eeaa5d8@rock5> <426A0CE8.88B22639@gmx.de> Message-ID: <00f001c549cf$037b5740$a19d76d5@telenet.be> I can only second Juergen. Rock, I already told you at the Tucson Show how much I value your contributions, and I know a lot of other list members do as well. Please stay on the list and continue to share your stories and to educate us. Same goes for Grant, please stay on this list, and if you ever get the chance to meet Rock in person and "talk rocks", grab the opportunity! You will not regret it! Some more general remarks will be sent in another message to the list. Cheers, Herwig Herwig Pelckmans Worldwide Mineral Collector Cardijnstraat 12 B-3530 Helchteren Belgium Europe http://www.xlizd.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juergen Wachsmuth" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 10:52 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Response to Rock Currier > Hello, > > let me say I appreciate your efforts when you are writing your contributions. You > make available information that is not readily available to me from other > sources, and I saved several of your emails. Please do not withdraw from the > group despite disagreement you caused by speaking frankly. > > Regards > J?rgen Wachsmuth > Ulm - Germany > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be Mon Apr 25 14:44:14 2005 From: herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be (herwig pelckmans) Date: Mon Apr 25 14:48:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] dealer honesty - influence of sunlight - unstable minerals References: <20050423023421.98784.qmail@web50502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <010401c549df$ed009460$a19d76d5@telenet.be> Grant and others, I think I understand what you have written, and I agree completely with the "general feeling of it". After all, who wants his hard earned money (= minerals bought) to disintegrate by sunlight? However, it is inpossible for a mineral dealer to tell every potential customer about every potential process that might eventually destroy the mineral specimen in question. Some minerals can for example become "unstable" if handled or displayed the wrong way... Besides, sometimes even the most knowledgeable dealers are unaware of certain "autodestruction habits" of mineral specimens... Some comments: Mineral collectors in general don't really appreciate the possible effects of sunlight on their mineral specimens. Not only vivianite, but MANY minerals can dehydrate and start to crumble. Others will fade (a lot of agates do!) or turn black (especially silver minerals like proustite). Some will even "evaporate" (in fact sulphur crystals will slowly "disappear" when put in a very sunny place). Still others will be blown apart by the internal stress built up by the heating of their liquid and/or gass inclusions (some very large and expensive aquamarine crystals were lost that way; the crystals shards acting like bomb shells!). So in general, it is not a good idea to display or keep mineral specimens in bright sunlight. Other minerals can slowly dry out and fall apart, even if no (sun)light is around. Opal is a well known example... BUT, some opal is MUCH more resistant to this phenomenon than other... Other minerals will loose (part of) their water and actually change from one mineral into another. Other minerals are water solvable and will disappear when washed. The possible dangers are not always that obvious. I once had a few specimens with nice liebigite crystals from that classic locality in CO. I stored the best specimen in a Californian garage for a year, judging that garage to be a MUCH dryer environment than where I live (Belgium, climate comparable to the Oregon coastal area). Imagine my (unpleasant) surprise when a year later all that was left was a rectangular block of yellow, crumbly, amorphous, "hydrated post-liebigite". The crystals had slowly absorbed all the air moisture available, had "expanded" and the new growth had taken the form of the box ... (BTW, sarcastic but true, the liebigite specimens in Belgium are still fine!). Others are hygroscopic, and when they get too much water they as well will crumble apart. Here also one sometimes is "taken by surprise". Quite a few pyrite specimens are known to absorb water and "bloom" consequently. I once bought a VERY dusty fluorite specimen from Weardale, UK. Not realy paying attention to the very ugly and equally very dusty matrix (probably because I was too detracted by the nice purple fluorite crystals), I decided to clean the specimen in the ultrasonic cleaner. I did not even have to turn it on! As soon as I had put the specimen in the water, I heard something was going wrong! It did not stay for more than the time to realize that in the water, but more than enough time to start the process of falling apart. In fact, the nice fluorite crystals were sitting on a matrix of very dry and porous pyrite, that acted like a sponge. A few weeks later, all that was left were some micromount sized fluorite cubes ... Sometimes minerals are too "uncommon" to know all about their behaviour. I once bought a flat of ilsemannite, a relatively rare molybdenum-oxide with crystal water in its formula. Thought nothing could go wrong with that one. Well, Belgium turned out to be too uncomfortable for the critters: they (most probably) used air humidity to start some kind of reaction and finally all fell apart. Having sold quite a few of those specimens already, without being aware of this problem, there was little I could do. Of course I stopped selling the specimens I still had. I did publish something about this phenomenon in our local club newsletter, and refunded all the people that told me their specimen had fallen apart as well. After that, I got in touch with the dealer that sold me the specimens, and he told me that his specimens were still in great shape. In fact, he even showed me some the year after. So in short, not only the mineral is important, but also the place where you keep it! (BTW, that dealer refunded me the entire flat of minerals, even though his specimens were still OK. And he too was unaware of this "strange behaviour" of ilsemannite) To get back to vivianite (one of my favorite minerals), I have quite a few specimens from all over the world, and so far (I keep my fingers crossed) almost all my specimens are still fine. The only ones that do crumble slowly (again, in MY collection, and thus stored in "MY environment") are the Cameroon ones Lanny wrote about. Which reminds me of those orpiment crystals from Nevada that were sold by Collector's Edge a few years ago... BIG discussions at the Tucson and Denver shows about the stability of those specimens... Last time I saw some for sale, I had the impression they had "started to change" already. Anyone on this list that happens to have such a specimen and a picture of it taken right after you got it? Then you should photograph it again, compare both pictures and let us know your conclusions! That would be an interesting investigation! For those list members still with me, congrats! You're in great reading shape! Time to formulate some kind of ... General conclusion: The dangers that threaten our mineral specimens are many and diverse (and sometimes obscure or yet unknown). They don't always go by the same rules for everyone (= every mineral species) and everywhere (= every place it is kept). Don't shoot the mineral dealer before talking to him about what you have experienced. Most dealers will actually be grateful for that kind of information, and willing to negotiate a refund for the lost specimen(s). Cheers, Herwig Herwig Pelckmans Worldwide Mineral Collector Cardijnstraat 12 B-3530 Helchteren Belgium Europe http://www.xlizd.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Johnston" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 9:33 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 11, Issue 23 > George, > (snip) > > And I think it is in bad taste for a honest dealer to not disclose > something that affects value. It is in bad taste for a wholesaler to > suggest that dealers not disclose something that affects value. > > I bought a frozen fish one time and when I got it home and it started > to thaw, the stink almost forced me out of my house. > > If I buy a rock and it starts to fall apart in sunlight it stinks -- > just like the rotten fish. > > Grant From herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be Mon Apr 25 14:48:16 2005 From: herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be (herwig pelckmans) Date: Mon Apr 25 14:52:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] FW: "whisker pyrite" (request for assistance) References: <042520051851.27430.426D3C250005404400006B2621602807489D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: <010f01c549e0$7cfd3c80$a19d76d5@telenet.be> If memory serves me well, I remember an article about filiform pyrite (and it's rectangular "twists") in the Mineralogical Record, years ago... Cheers, HP Herwig Pelckmans Worldwide Mineral Collector Cardijnstraat 12 B-3530 Helchteren Belgium Europe http://www.xlizd.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 8:51 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] FW: "whisker pyrite" (request for assistance) > > Greetings, > > The following is a request from the Society of Mineral Museum Professionals mailing list, one I found worth sharing with the public. What he is seeking might also be known as "filiform pyrite" or "hair pyrite." I know that Sugar Grove, West Virginia, has vesicular basalt with filiform pyrite, nontronite, and other goodies included. I don't know if filiform (or fibrous, or whisker, or hairy) pyrite occurs anywhere else, but this might be an opportunity to have it studied and analyzed. > > I don't know if Dr. Sicree is willing to trade or not. Anyone who has such as specimen of pyrite and is willing to offer it should contact him directly using the info provided below. > > Thanks, > Don > > > -------------- Forwarded Message: -------------- > From: "Andrew A. Sicree" > > > Dear Fellow Mineralogists: > > > > Road-building near State College, PA, has uncovered > > a large body of pyrite hosted in a sandstone - much > > to the annoyance of the Dept of Transportation. > > > > Some pyrite at this site exhibits a wide array > > of unusual morphologies. "Whiskers" are one form, > > but we also have shapes similar to "match-sticks", "laths" > > "boards", "boxes", and some much more unusual. > > > > I'm trying to get some good SEM images for publication. > > Most crystals are 0.1 mm and smaller. > > > > I'd like to know > > > > (a) if you know of localities for "whisker" pyrites or other unusual > > shapes of pyrite, and if so, what are they? > > > > (b) if your collections have specimens, can I get samples for study? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Andrew Sicree > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Andrew A. Sicree, Ph.D. > > Earth & Mineral Sciences Museum > > Pennsylvania State University > > 112 Steidle Building > > University Park, PA 16802 > > phone: (814) 865-6427 > > email: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From betdav97 at aol.com Mon Apr 25 15:32:04 2005 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Mon Apr 25 15:32:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] FW: "whisker pyrite" (request for assistance) In-Reply-To: <010f01c549e0$7cfd3c80$a19d76d5@telenet.be> References: <042520051851.27430.426D3C250005404400006B2621602807489D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> <010f01c549e0$7cfd3c80$a19d76d5@telenet.be> Message-ID: <8C717FDBDDE5C68-490-8F6E@mblk-d48.sysops.aol.com> Hi Herwig, Yes, we do have filliform pyrite here. I 'm not sure about the Min Rec article, but Rock and Mineral had an article on the different locations. I believe there were about seven localities, but my memory usually slips a cog somewhere. I have a copy of the magazine, but it may take awhile, I don't have a good history of finding things that should be some place, but usually aren't. Dave Phillips Sunset Fossils & Minerals Morgantown, West Virginia --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Mon Apr 25 16:20:43 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Apr 25 16:20:39 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] FW: "whisker pyrite" (request for assistance) In-Reply-To: <8C717FDBDDE5C68-490-8F6E@mblk-d48.sysops.aol.com> References: <042520051851.27430.426D3C250005404400006B2621602807489D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> <010f01c549e0$7cfd3c80$a19d76d5@telenet.be> <8C717FDBDDE5C68-490-8F6E@mblk-d48.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050425161626.026598c8@mail.spiritone.com> Filliform pyrite also occurs in the Columbia Gorge, OR. At 03:32 PM 4/25/2005, you wrote: > >Hi Herwig, > Yes, we do have filliform pyrite here. I 'm not sure about the Min Rec > article, but >Rock and Mineral had an article on the different locations. I believe >there were about >seven localities, but my memory usually slips a cog somewhere. I have a >copy of the >magazine, but it may take awhile, I don't have a good history of finding >things that >should be some place, but usually aren't. >Dave Phillips >Sunset Fossils & Minerals >Morgantown, West Virginia Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From WTompkcccc at aol.com Mon Apr 25 16:26:58 2005 From: WTompkcccc at aol.com (WTompkcccc@aol.com) Date: Mon Apr 25 16:27:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] FW: "whisker pyrite" (request for assistance) Message-ID: <81.266d7483.2f9ed6c2@aol.com> In a message dated 4/25/05 4:20:58 PM, tim@orerockon.com writes: << Filliform pyrite also occurs in the Columbia Gorge, OR. >> I have several flats of fillaform pyrites from the Clackamas river area, Oregon. Very thin, but some have right angles and other growth patterns that are very attractive with magnification. Bill Tompkins From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Mon Apr 25 19:43:43 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Mon Apr 25 19:43:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] FW: "whisker pyrite" (request for assistance) References: <042520051851.27430.426D3C250005404400006B2621602807489D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: <007201c54a09$c33a34e0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Halls Gap has two forms of filiform pyrite - some is "polycrystalline" (look hairy in an SEM, like the rings) and others have extended growth on one axis (the "structural steel" pyrite). I wrote about it in an article on Halls Gap in Sept. 1997. I have been uploading SEM images to Halls Gap stuff to mindat, but after the web site crashed in March, they were lost. I have been slowly been reposting them, although I'm not sure I've gotten to the pyrites yet. Do have a structural pyrite image through a binocular microscope on mindat. I have given a lot of ore samples to Dr. Sicree in the past, but I don't think pyrite was among them. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 2:51 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] FW: "whisker pyrite" (request for assistance) > > Greetings, > > The following is a request from the Society of Mineral Museum > Professionals mailing list, one I found worth sharing with the public. > What he is seeking might also be known as "filiform pyrite" or "hair > pyrite." I know that Sugar Grove, West Virginia, has vesicular basalt > with filiform pyrite, nontronite, and other goodies included. I don't > know if filiform (or fibrous, or whisker, or hairy) pyrite occurs anywhere > else, but this might be an opportunity to have it studied and analyzed. > > I don't know if Dr. Sicree is willing to trade or not. Anyone who has > such as specimen of pyrite and is willing to offer it should contact him > directly using the info provided below. > > Thanks, > Don > > > -------------- Forwarded Message: -------------- > From: "Andrew A. Sicree" > >> Dear Fellow Mineralogists: >> >> Road-building near State College, PA, has uncovered >> a large body of pyrite hosted in a sandstone - much >> to the annoyance of the Dept of Transportation. >> >> Some pyrite at this site exhibits a wide array >> of unusual morphologies. "Whiskers" are one form, >> but we also have shapes similar to "match-sticks", "laths" >> "boards", "boxes", and some much more unusual. >> >> I'm trying to get some good SEM images for publication. >> Most crystals are 0.1 mm and smaller. >> >> I'd like to know >> >> (a) if you know of localities for "whisker" pyrites or other unusual >> shapes of pyrite, and if so, what are they? >> >> (b) if your collections have specimens, can I get samples for study? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Andrew Sicree > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> Andrew A. Sicree, Ph.D. >> Earth & Mineral Sciences Museum >> Pennsylvania State University >> 112 Steidle Building >> University Park, PA 16802 >> phone: (814) 865-6427 >> email: >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From magnet at crocoite.com Mon Apr 25 19:55:48 2005 From: magnet at crocoite.com (magnet) Date: Mon Apr 25 19:55:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] dealer honesty - influence of sunlight - unstable minerals Message-ID: <20050426025548.19112.qmail@webmachine101.com> Hi Herwig Excellent post... To add to your comments - sometimes the same species from the same location stored in the same environment under the same circumstances can react differently! Regards Steve From JWachsmuth at gmx.de Tue Apr 26 02:27:30 2005 From: JWachsmuth at gmx.de (Juergen Wachsmuth) Date: Tue Apr 26 02:28:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: "whisker pyrite" (request for assistance) References: <042520051851.27430.426D3C250005404400006B2621602807489D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: <426E0982.8AB67647@gmx.de> Hello, there are more localities for filiform pyrite also in Europe. Let me mention what comes to my mind: K?ditz and Teichelberg and Grube Bayerland-Pfaffenreuth-Oberpfalz and several other quarries in northeastern parts of Bavaria, Germany / Beckum in M?nsterland, Germany / Prince Edward Mine, Dolgellau Gold-Belt, Gwynedd, Wales / Galgenberg, Jassing, Leoben, Steiermark, Austria / Carrara Marble quarries, Italy. I am sure there are many more. Form Hall?s Gap, Kentucky, there also are circular pyrite crystals published. And to be sure a paulingite specimen really comes from the type locality Rock Island Dam-Washington you should examine for "prismatic" or "needlelike" pyrite crystals. They make a good indicator, yet I do not know whether it is 100% safe. These review papers I found in my library: Bideaux, R.A.: Mineral Rings and Cylinders, Mineralogical Record 1/1970, p.105 Howard, Don: On Filiforms, Nanowires and Whiskers. Twisted Millerite, Micro Probe 9/2002, p.7 Lieber, W: Locken, Ringe und Spiralen - kuriose Wachstumsformen von Kristallen. Aufschluss 1/2004, p. 3-16 Regards, J?rgen Wachsmuth Ulm - Germany From pchil at botsnet.bw Tue Apr 26 04:13:20 2005 From: pchil at botsnet.bw (P.C. Hulley) Date: Tue Apr 26 04:29:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Response to Rock Currier References: <200504220100.j3M10ocQ020596@bubbleator.drizzle.com><016a01c54724$14341700$2eeaa5d8@rock5> <426A0CE8.88B22639@gmx.de> Message-ID: <000c01c54a53$26ba1f00$9d48a7a8@hulley> Hear, hear! Rock, you have a way of getting to the nitty gritty which I appreciate! When ever I see one of you contributions, I take the trouble to read it thoroughly! Please don't stop contributing! Hildagarde in Botswana. ----- Original Message ----- From: Juergen Wachsmuth To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 10:52 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Response to Rock Currier Hello, let me say I appreciate your efforts when you are writing your contributions. You make available information that is not readily available to me from other sources, and I saved several of your emails. Please do not withdraw from the group despite disagreement you caused by speaking frankly. Regards J?rgen Wachsmuth Ulm - Germany _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From libawc at emory.edu Tue Apr 26 05:02:59 2005 From: libawc at emory.edu (Anita Westlake) Date: Tue Apr 26 05:02:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Anyone from Georgia? And question about possiblecorundum in your own collections.... In-Reply-To: <009a01c54681$cae18530$e6b27144@dit03r92qai5fx> Message-ID: <005401c54a57$e47489a0$96bf8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> Brenda: For info on Georgia corundum, you may wish to contact Mr. Kim Cochran at 770-979-8331. He does not have email. Please respect his privacy, and only call him if you are Brenda! Anita D. Westlake -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of CorunDogs Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 9:53 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Anyone from Georgia? And question about possiblecorundum in your own collections.... HI THERE!! I know I have posted about my involvement in The Corundum Project in the past, so I am not going to go into it now :-) But if you would like to check out what it is all about or see some of the most beautiful rocks in all of the World (in my opinion of course....hehe), here is the website www.corunduminium.com However, I have a couple of questions.... Is there anyone here from Georgia? My partner (Will Heierman)and I are needing someone who can help us with the corundum locations in Georgia and possibly getting some material. And if this person is interested, being one of our Regional Correspondants who will keep us up-to-date on the going on's with the corundum in Georgia. You will be given credit on our website and possibly in other publications as well. Here is exactly how Will worded it Georgia: Seeking contacts. Historical research in local libraries and through conversation; Looking for corundum sites and representative material, mapping and rockhounding; Looking at private and museum collections; Specimen acquisition, photographic images. The other question I have is if anyone has any corundum specimens in their collection that they would like to possibly offer to me for sale?? I am still looking to add to my own personal collection....and of course, if there is something outstanding, for The Collection.....which our goal is to eventually find a permament home for in a Museum!!! And credit can also be kept with the specimen if that is important to you. If anyone is interested, Will and a couple of his friends from the North (was almost completed when I came on board) have put together a wonderful online publication in the Canadian Rockhound Geological Magazine- Winter/Spring 2005 Addition. It is incredibly well written - even my family and friends who know absolutely NOTHING about corundum have found it interesting and was that allowed them to learn alot about what I am doing and why I have become so passionate about it :-) http://www.canadianrockhound.ca/2005/01/index.html If you could contact me offlist at corundogs@charter.net I would really appreciate it. Of course, you could respond on list, but I am not sure if other members would be upset :-) THANKS!!!! Brenda LaCroix Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, Nebraska Dedicated to helping abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a person.....to a Rescue Dog, you are the World!!! www.nationwidebostonrescue.org www.corunduminium.com - Ask me about The Corundum Project --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Tue Apr 26 10:18:01 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Tue Apr 26 10:17:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Stories, Roots and Old Mines Message-ID: <426E77C9.9020801@tenforward.com> Hi Everyone, I've come across a website which is just loaded with wonderful stories. The site is... http://www.2drx.com These folks explore many of Washington States old mines and out back haunts and as such, their site is filled full of stories from their perspectives (I've never met these folks) which to a point retell experiences I've had when these places were my old stomping grounds. There are lots of photographs here also which very much enrich their reports. As an example of one of the places they've gone which I've also enjoyed, please see... http://www.2drx.com/2002/Sunset/ This was the first underground mine I ever explored. Below is an excerpt from my January 2000 paper, "How I Became A Rockhound". I hope you all enjoy. All the very best, John As I grew through my difficult teen years, and into my mid-twenties, I was very thankful that my parents had often taken us camping and that I had developed a love for the out of doors. During these years, my parents purchased a lot from a membership campground in Gold Bar, Washington, and placed a trailer on it. This became a favorite haunt of mine as I used this as a base camp and hiked all of the trails in the area extensively. I would usually hike alone, trail running up to twenty-five and thirty miles a day. During some of these hikes, I would pass old abandoned mines. Rivers of dirty, iron stained water, often ran from them and they looked altogether unappealing. That is, until 12-24-87, the night before Christmas, when as I ate dinner at my grandparents house, a news report came onto the television. The report featured two local men who explored mines, and who were taking a reporter underground into one of the mines I often hiked by on my way up Trout Creek, near Index. The reporter was Chris Legeros of Seattle's channel 7 news, and the two men were Daryl Jacobson and Greg Cady of Northwest Underground Explorations. I was fascinated as I watched these men break a path through three foot long hanging icicles, which hung from the rotting timbers lining the ceiling of the tunnel leading into the Sunset mine. Beautiful pictures of an underground lake glowing emerald green in the false light of the camera, and eerie shadowed galleries stretching up into a darkness unbroken by any light enchanted and called to me. Right then and there, I told everyone that tomorrow, Christmas morning, I would hike the two miles up to the mine and that I too would see these same subterranean wonders far beneath the earth's surface. Early the next morning, I drove to the spot where I would begin my hike. The snow here was already over a foot deep, but undaunted, I hurried on. By the time I reached the mine, the snow was well over two feet deep. The icicles had re-grown, and all but blocked the entrance into the mine. Again undaunted, I began breaking through the sheets of hanging ice and progressed slowly forward. Rushing cold air, and freezing water, swept around and beneath me. I tried to walk on the sides of the tunnel as the waters depth quickly exceeded the height of my boots. Slowing for a moment, I flashed my headlights beam deeper into the tunnel. I was thrilled to see an ore car rising out of the shallowing waters, just beyond where the water plunged into a four foot deep pool, several feet before where I stood. It looked like treasure, and with only a moments hesitation, I plunged into the freezing waters. I think I'll always remember that frigid shock. I wandered, after finally rising out of the waters, hundreds and hundreds of feet of tunnel. I walked down the frightening Red Devil drift with its shadows and its deathlike silence. I beheld the crystal clear waters of the underground lake, and marveled at the gushing water which erupted from a drill hole which had penetrated an underground river, and which now drained into, and flooded, the lowermost levels of the mine. During all of my explorations, I kept thinking about how much I was relying upon the flickering feeble light of my flashlight! At the end of one of the mine drifts, I found a business card left by Chris. I used this card to contact him at channel 7, and from there found out how to get in contact with Daryl and Greg. My first meeting with Daryl and Greg went fantastic, and they accepted my offer to help them seek out lost northwest mines. Soon thereafter, I became a full partner of Northwest Underground Explorations. This partnership lasted for several years, during the end of the 1980's. During this time, 1988, we claimed the Kromona property, in the Sultan Basin area. This mine had several levels, and hundreds of feet of tunnel, drifts and stopes. We had many terrific adventures there, exploring the inner workings of the mine, the old buildings, and the incredible views of the Kromona Basin. We explored mines on both sides of the Cascades during these years, and spent lots of quality time in the Monte Cristo area, east of Everett. During these exploration trips, I began developing an interest in minerals again. The veins in the mines would sparkle and glisten in my flashlights beam, and before long, I started bringing hammers and chisels in my backpacks gear and began digging out massive chunks of vein minerals. Galena, bornite, arsenopyrite, chalcopyrite, pyrite, schorl and the rare, occasional quartz crystal, these were my collected treasures. I was back and enjoying the wonderful world of minerals again! From rik.dillen at skynet.be Tue Apr 26 11:38:59 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Tue Apr 26 11:39:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pyrite and stainless steel In-Reply-To: <010401c549df$ed009460$a19d76d5@telenet.be> Message-ID: <200504261839.j3QId0Mp021987@outmx025.isp.belgacom.be> -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of herwig pelckmans Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 11:44 PM To: Grant Johnston; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] dealer honesty - influence of sunlight - unstableminerals Others are hygroscopic, and when they get too much water they as well will crumble apart. Here also one sometimes is "taken by surprise". Quite a few pyrite specimens are known to absorb water and "bloom" consequently. [Rik Dillen] And it can be worse than that ! Last week I cleaned a lot of pyrite crystals from Peru ultrasonically. The cleaning water turned grayish-yellowish-or something. I cleaned the specimens and the tray of my US-bath thoroughly with water afterwards, but a day later the whole stainless steel tray was discoloured into brownish. I needed to polish the inner surfaces of the tray to get rid (more or less) of the traces of the agressive liquid. I did that, because I am pretty confident that otherwise pitting corrosion could occur later on. I was happy that I always use a separate solid stainless steel tray to prevent such things happening directly to the US-bath. Obviously the pyrite specimens contained so much free sulphuric acid that it could ruin the stainless steel container. The ultrasonic waves operate in two ways to eat your stainless steel tray as efficiently as possible : first of all they cause any traces of sulphuric acid to diffuse in seconds towards the aqueous solution and to dissolve in it, and secondly they enhance and accelerate the corrosive action of the sulphuric acid on the tank, by degrading or even dissolving the passivation layer present on stainless steel. I also observed that after cleaning pyrites and pouring the liquid in a stainless steel sink, pitting corrosion started if I did not pay enough attention to small pyrite particles left behind in the sink (rusty discoloration specs). So my advice : when you clean pyrite, always avoid long term contact with any object made of stainless steel (or any other metal), and keep in mind that tiny traces of relict particles can already be catastrophical in terms of pitting corrosion. And clean everything you used (if made of stainless steel) *VERY* carefully and thoroughly with plenty of water and some detergent. Corrosive greetings, Rik Dillen From entropydave at ntlworld.com Tue Apr 26 11:44:46 2005 From: entropydave at ntlworld.com (Dave Harris) Date: Tue Apr 26 11:44:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] newbie Message-ID: <426E8C1E.000012.02468@D500> Hi, Before I actually start writing biographies.... just thought I'd check the list was still extant, as they say! best to all dave IMCA #0092 Sec.BIMS www.bimsociety.org From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 26 11:48:07 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Tue Apr 26 11:48:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Microminerals from Sauktown Sales Message-ID: <20050426184807.76444.qmail@web51001.mail.yahoo.com> This month's update is a little early, since we will be away from May 12 through May 22. I've added another 30 or so specimens to the list. Quite a few are rare, or at least uncommon, and 4 are type localities. As usual many are in limited quantities, so first come, first served. Check out the list at http://www.sauktown.com As always, if you are getting this update as an individual, rather than through a list, and want to be removed, please tell me. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ From dawnmfredricks at msn.com Tue Apr 26 18:45:39 2005 From: dawnmfredricks at msn.com (Dawn M. Fredricks) Date: Tue Apr 26 18:45:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Memorial Day Outing Message-ID: For any of you that may be in Oregon over Memorial Day, Northwest Mineral Prospectors Club is having one of their annual outings. We will be camping on our club claims in the Quartzville area (east of Sweet Home Oregon) for the entire weekend. Our club is now varried, besides dredging, we also have metal detectorists and rock hounds. During the weekend there will be fun & games including a pot luck on Saturday night. Guests are also invited, so if any of you are interested, please contact me off list for the details. Dawn Fredricks Portland Oregon   --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From mountainbiker782003 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 26 21:29:02 2005 From: mountainbiker782003 at yahoo.com (Bryant Shoblom) Date: Tue Apr 26 21:29:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] New to this.... Message-ID: <20050427042902.79422.qmail@web54105.mail.yahoo.com> Im new to this list and actually new to rockhounding and Im looking for some suggestions about where I can go this week, I will be out on the mountain loop hwy (washington) on the velot side. any suggestions would be very much appreciated!! Thanks in advance Bryant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From bobl at peaktopeak.com Tue Apr 26 22:42:13 2005 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (bobl@peaktopeak.com) Date: Tue Apr 26 22:42:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) Message-ID: <20050427054213.5799.qmail@post.phpwebhosting.com> Hi all, Anybody have any ideas for someone (me) who is in Seattle on business who might have a couple hours of free time on Thursday morning? I am looking for anything related to rocks, minerals or crystals. Digging locations, museums, or even geological "overlooks" (non-digging). I don't have any digging equipment, so I would just be scrounging around or looking on the ground. South of Seattle near the SeaTac airport would be best, since I have to fly out at 2pm. HAHA! :-) Thanks, Bob From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Wed Apr 27 08:02:51 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Wed Apr 27 08:05:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20050427054213.5799.qmail@post.phpwebhosting.com> References: <20050427054213.5799.qmail@post.phpwebhosting.com> Message-ID: <426FA99B.9000206@tenforward.com> Hi Bob, For your consideration, a best bet would be the Burke Museum on the University of Washington campus. The mineral collection as its displayed is fairly challenged. Their fossil presentation is better and much more worthwhile to see (check out the 15 foot long, 28 million year old whale we found and donated which is there on full time display). Traffic may be a bear getting back to the airport as you've got to drive through the heart of Seattle on I-5 and depending on your time available, keep this in mind. Here is their website... http://www.washington.edu/burkemuseum/ There is also a rock shop, Jerry's Agate Shop, located in Kent (just east of Sea-Tac). Pretty much a hobbyists shop, bulk, equip., etc. Not much displayed as I recall from my last visit. They have a website at... http://www.jerrysrockandgem.com/frame_main.php There used to be some excellent shops and there were even a few fossil localities available over towards Renton, but they've closed and have been obliterated through ongoing development. Perhaps others will draw your attention to other sites, either way, safe travels and all the very best, John PS I enjoyed meeting you at the awards ceremony at this last years Denver Show. bobl@peaktopeak.com wrote: >Hi all, > >Anybody have any ideas for someone (me) who is in Seattle on business who might have a couple hours of free time on Thursday morning? I am looking for anything related to rocks, minerals or crystals. Digging locations, museums, or even geological "overlooks" (non-digging). I don't have any digging equipment, so I would just be scrounging around or looking on the ground. South of Seattle near the SeaTac airport would be best, since I have to fly out at 2pm. HAHA! :-) > >Thanks, > >Bob > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Wed Apr 27 08:14:25 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Wed Apr 27 08:16:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] New to this.... In-Reply-To: <20050427042902.79422.qmail@web54105.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050427042902.79422.qmail@web54105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <426FAC51.3020903@tenforward.com> Hi Bryant, This may be a bit redundant as I just posted this information yesterday, but for your consideration check out the 2DrX site and their Mountain Loop Highway page specifically at... http://www.2drx.com/2003/MountainLoop/ All the very best, John Bryant Shoblom wrote: >Im new to this list and actually new to rockhounding and Im looking for some suggestions about where I can go this week, I will be out on the mountain loop hwy (washington) on the velot side. > >any suggestions would be very much appreciated!! > >Thanks in advance > >Bryant > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From Tourmalineminer at aol.com Sat Apr 23 00:14:23 2005 From: Tourmalineminer at aol.com (Tourmalineminer@aol.com) Date: Wed Apr 27 08:34:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free Sunstone Dig at Spectrum Mine Message-ID: There is an alternative to digging at the dust devil mine and paying for what you find. We offer free digging at no charge at the Spectrum Sunstone Mine. You get to keep whatever you find at no charge regardless of value. We guarantee that everyone finds reds, greens and schiller stones. We will give everyone that comes up to the mine and mentions this posting.....a 15 carat facet grade Red Labradorite (sunstone) free of charge. We are doing this to promote Spectrum Mines and show that there are OTHER sources of high gem quality sunstone being produced and to promote the stone and increase the market. We currently own more colored sunstone producing claims than any other company and it is easier to find colored and schiller sunstones at Spectrum than at any other sunstone fee dig that I know of. On average, we find some color or schiller almost every screen full of dirt. Some of the stones found exceed 300 carats in weight. We also plan to have our commercial gem screening plant and conveyer picking belt running this summer. When it is running (it was damaged due to vandalism) we will allow all that come to the mine to pick sunstones off the belt and keep all they find without all the work of digging and screening it. We also have a rock shop with gems and minerals for sale from all of our mines including the Himalaya Tourmaline Mine as well as around the world. We are also in the process of putting up manufactured housing at the mine which will be available for our guests to stay in. (no more pit toilets!!) We expect this to be ready by June. There is also camping available on the property. We also have an abundant supply of fresh water from our well for the public to use as well as a swimming pool, badminton, volleyball, and a desert golf course(balls not included) We officially open to the public on May 15 and close October 31. Our website is www.highdesertgemsandminerals.com Our map was temporarily down but is once again working. Hope to see you all up there. P.S. My inspiration to let the public dig for free on Spectrum came from Tim Fisher and some friends of his. Hope to see you up here Tim. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Tourmalineminer at aol.com Sat Apr 23 00:18:48 2005 From: Tourmalineminer at aol.com (Tourmalineminer@aol.com) Date: Wed Apr 27 08:34:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free Sunstone Dig at Spectrum Mine Message-ID: <149.43e76a65.2f9b50d8@aol.com> A follow up to my last posting. All who have questions regarding the Spectrum Mine Free Sunstone dig per my last posting can contact us at tourmalineminer@aol.com or through the website www.highdesertgemsandminerals.com Chris Rose-High Desert Gems and Minerals --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From geenet2 at mchsi.com Wed Apr 27 12:19:06 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (geenet2@mchsi.com) Date: Wed Apr 27 12:19:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free Sunstone Dig at Spectrum Mine Message-ID: <042720051919.8260.426FE5A9000C9BF0000020442197912995CD9B0A020A0A09@mchsi.com> Hey Tim, How far would this be from Salt Lake City?? Jeanette > There is an alternative to digging at the dust devil mine and paying for what > you find. We offer free digging at no charge at the Spectrum Sunstone Mine. > From Tourmalineminer at aol.com Wed Apr 27 13:15:50 2005 From: Tourmalineminer at aol.com (Tourmalineminer@aol.com) Date: Wed Apr 27 13:15:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free Sunstone Dig at Spectrum Mine Message-ID: <198.3de237a9.2fa14cf6@aol.com> Hi Jeanette, The Spectrum Mine Free Sunstone dig in Oregon is about as far away from Salt Lake City as Reno is. The turnoff would be north on Highway 95 at Winnemucca Nevada. It is just over the Nevada border in Oregon 22 miles north of Plush. There is a map on how to get there at www.highdesertgemsandminerals.com Along that route, you drive right through Virgin Valley where there are good digging opportunities for precious opal. Chris Rose --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From morningstar at att.net Wed Apr 27 14:56:11 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Wed Apr 27 14:52:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free Sunstone Dig at Spectrum Mine In-Reply-To: <198.3de237a9.2fa14cf6@aol.com> References: <198.3de237a9.2fa14cf6@aol.com> Message-ID: <42700A7B.4060407@att.net> Tourmalineminer@aol.com wrote: > Along that route, you drive right through Virgin Valley where there are good > digging opportunities for precious opal. Hi! Okay, let me start by saying I'm not trying to be a pain or obnoxious, but I am known as a nitpicker, and I'm wondering what you mean by "precious." I am familiar with a creamy, opaque, almost plastic-looking opal with a green fluorescence from Virgin Valley. When I think of "precious opal" I think of gem quality opal with fire and flash, the kind you buy in jewelry. So my question is this: is there gem-qaulity opal also in Virgin Valley, or are you talking about what I described above? All the best, Don From Tourmalineminer at aol.com Wed Apr 27 15:28:41 2005 From: Tourmalineminer at aol.com (Tourmalineminer@aol.com) Date: Wed Apr 27 15:28:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free Sunstone Dig at Spectrum Mine Message-ID: Hi Don > is there gem-quality opal also in Virgin Valley Yes, virgin valley is primarily known for its precious opal being found as limb casts in ancient lake bed sediments in which hydrothermal solutions have precipitated opal in the empty or partially empty cavities where the wood had once been. These opals have some of the brightest flashes of color in the world and can be quite spectacular. Unfortunately, much of the opal is unstable and so many people keep them in water as specimens in order to keep them from dehydrating and decrepitating. Some of the opals however do turn out to be stable and are quite spectacular. I recommend the Royal Rainbow Mine or the Bonanza opal mine for fee digging. The Dust Devil Mine Fee dig (you buy what you dig) and the Spectrum Mine Free Dig (you keep what you dig) are only about 1.5 hours away. Fine sunstones are found at both. By the way, the fluorescent opal from Virgin Valley you referred to is actually found in thick veins in the Western part of Virgin Valley on claims owned by Royal Peacock and were once looked at as a potential source of uranium by mining companies. There is no precious opal in this material. Chris Rose --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From morningstar at att.net Wed Apr 27 15:36:28 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Wed Apr 27 15:32:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free Sunstone Dig at Spectrum Mine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <427013EC.40209@att.net> Tourmalineminer@aol.com wrote: > opal from Virgin Valley you referred to is actually found in thick veins in the > Western part of Virgin Valley on claims owned by Royal Peacock and were once > looked at as a potential source of uranium by mining companies. There is no > precious opal in this material. Excellent, thanks! Maybe I'll visit once I move to Idaho late this summer. Don From afox at drizzle.com Wed Apr 27 15:45:43 2005 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Wed Apr 27 15:45:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle Message-ID: Greetings, all, I have taken care of the Rockhounds list for the last couple of years, ever since Tom Corson elected to move on to other things. I have decided that I too need to move on to other things, and that I no longer have the time or desire to run the list. I've had a wonderful time doing it and met a lot of exceptionally smart, motivated, and kind individuals, but I'm ready for a change. My reasons: 1) Time. Between finishing my thesis, working more than full time, and other hobbies, I don't have the time to spend to really do the list right (searchable archives, keep the webpage and FAQ updated), etc. It's been neglected for a while (other than just basic admin duties), and I feel that someone with more time (and interest) could really build the list into something great. 2) Fading interest. Though I still rockhound on an irregular basis, I've developed other hobbies that are taking precedence (Go, target shooting, kayaking, getting in shape at the gym, and general IT-geekery). I no longer have the deep interest in rockhounding that I once did, and that makes it hard to want to spend time developing additional resources for the mailing list. 3) Money. Rockhounds costs me $10.00/month to be run through drizzle.com. It's not a lot of money, but it's basically a box of .45 ACP ammo a month. Since I'm only paid for 30 hours a week right now, any savings is a good thing. Note that this is NOT a push for funding; money is the least of the issues. Issues with the list disappearing: 1) Posting Archives I have an incomplete set of Rockhounds posting archives: some from the infodyne.com days (1993-1998) and some from the Gnu Mailman days (~2002-2005). I'd like for these to have a home online somewhere, as they have a wealth of information in them. I can host them for a limited time on my roommate's DSL connection, but I'd much rather they find a permament home somewhere with someone willing to develop them as a community resource (searchability, etc.) I DO NOT want to turn these posting over to someone who plans to make a profit from them; the list has always been run on a non-profit, non-marketing basis as a community resource, and I feel the archived postings should stay the same way. In an idea world, whoever decides to take over the list (if they do so) could also maintain the archives (provided they have storage space). I believe that, all told, the archives 'Zipped are less than 50 Mb. The options: 1) Someone else takes over running the list at drizzle.com. You'll need a dialup shell account at drizzle.com ($15.00/month), plus the mailing list fees ($10.00/month). All told, the cost is ($300/year - $235 if you pay for the year in full); I have a personal email account at drizzle, so the cost is 'less' for me. Otherwise, the list is all set up to go. Anyone willing to do this should contact me offline and we'll talk. 2) Someone else takes over the list and migrates it to their own site. I can help out with Gnu Mailman setup issues, and would be willing to foot the bill for a few months to have the existing mail alias at drizzle be redirected to the new domain / server. I would advise that, if you choose this option, that you NOT make the same mistakes that I did, and manually subscribe everyone (that was a lot of privacy hassles). Perhaps an opt-in message instead, backed up by an automagic message from drizzle (for a while) that forwards users to the new site. Anyone willing to take the list and migrate it, please email me AND the list in general. 3) Migrate to a 'free' service such as the Rockhounds groups on Yahoo. I'm pretty sure that most people on the list belong to multiple mailing lists, and that this one is probably kind of redundant. Though I dearly prefer text-based email over HTML web forums, personally. If nothing happens, Rockhounds@drizzle will terminate at the end of June 2005. I will run a generic bounce through the end of July 2005 that will list some alternatives to the Rockhounds list, with URLs and references. After July 2005, the rockhounds@drizzle alias will go dark. I will make all the archives available as downloaded zip files from my roommate's server through the end of July 2005 (address to be posted once we finish moving and get DSL set up again). Questions, comments, flames, and volunteers either to me offline (afox@drizzle.com) or, if you need to, to the list as a whole. Thanks, all! Aaron Fox Rockhounds Admin -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From bova at mindspring.com Wed Apr 27 16:01:42 2005 From: bova at mindspring.com (Carol J. Bova) Date: Wed Apr 27 15:56:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Virgin Valley Opal was Free Sunstone Dig at Spectrum Mine In-Reply-To: <42700A7B.4060407@att.net> Message-ID: <52455F56-B770-11D9-8031-000A95773806@mindspring.com> Virgin Valley has some incredibly wonderful precious opal! And some that is so unstable, it can't be cut.. it goes to pieces as it dries out. But black wood replacement, or contraluz opal can be world class! The Eclectic Lapidary featured a story on a contraluz opal named, "The Colors of Heaven" which is still in the archives at http://www.eclecticlapidary.com Click on Archives and scroll down to February 1, 1997 - Volume 1, Issue 3 and click on Colors of Heaven. It's well worth taking a look. Of course world class opals are few and far between. To see the range of types and grades of opal from Virgin Valley, just google on Virgin Valley opal. Perhaps someone on the list can say which fee dig mines are in operation currently. Carol Carol J. Bova The Eclectic Lapidary - March and April issues now online http://www.eclecticlapidary.com On Wednesday, April 27, 2005, at 05:56 PM, Don H wrote: > Tourmalineminer@aol.com wrote: > >> Along that route, you drive right through Virgin Valley where there >> are good digging opportunities for precious opal. > > Hi! > > Okay, let me start by saying I'm not trying to be a pain or obnoxious, > but I am known as a nitpicker, and I'm wondering what you mean by > "precious." I am familiar with a creamy, opaque, almost > plastic-looking opal with a green fluorescence from Virgin Valley. > When I think of "precious opal" I think of gem quality opal with fire > and flash, the kind you buy in jewelry. > > So my question is this: is there gem-qaulity opal also in Virgin > Valley, or are you talking about what I described above? > > > All the best, > Don > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- From jaybates at rcn.com Wed Apr 27 15:54:50 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Wed Apr 27 16:01:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free Sunstone Dig at Spectrum Mine References: Message-ID: <000b01c54b7c$1f26edc0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Chris, I have to disagree concerning the Royal Peacock Mine. There is indeed precious opal at the Royal Peacock including black opal. I have seen more than one log of a foot or more in lenght of precious opal come out of the Royal Peacock. I have also found a number of pieces of precious opal at the Royal Peacock. I have also found precious opal at the Opal Queen and I have seen people find it at the Rainbow Ridge. When I did get an end dump bucket load at Rainbow Ridge a few years ago all we got was a couple petrified spruce cones. Last year the people I talked to who did get bucket loads there, did quite well. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 3:28 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Free Sunstone Dig at Spectrum Mine > Hi Don > > > is there gem-quality opal also in Virgin Valley > > Yes, virgin valley is primarily known for its precious opal being found as > limb casts in ancient lake bed sediments in which hydrothermal solutions have > precipitated opal in the empty or partially empty cavities where the wood had > once been. These opals have some of the brightest flashes of color in the world > and can be quite spectacular. Unfortunately, much of the opal is unstable > and so many people keep them in water as specimens in order to keep them from > dehydrating and decrepitating. Some of the opals however do turn out to be > stable and are quite spectacular. I recommend the Royal Rainbow Mine or the > Bonanza opal mine for fee digging. The Dust Devil Mine Fee dig (you buy what you > dig) and the Spectrum Mine Free Dig (you keep what you dig) are only about 1.5 > hours away. Fine sunstones are found at both. By the way, the fluorescent > opal from Virgin Valley you referred to is actually found in thick veins in the > Western part of Virgin Valley on claims owned by Royal Peacock and were once > looked at as a potential source of uranium by mining companies. There is no > precious opal in this material. > > Chris Rose > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Tourmalineminer at aol.com Wed Apr 27 16:40:41 2005 From: Tourmalineminer at aol.com (Tourmalineminer@aol.com) Date: Wed Apr 27 16:40:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free Sunstone Dig at Spectrum Mine Message-ID: <87.26876174.2fa17cf9@aol.com> Hi Don, We have no disagreement regarding whether there is precious pal at the Royal Peacock Mines whatsoever. The most spctacular precious opal I have ever seen was from Royal Peacock Mines and I have had great success digging there which is why I recommended it as one of the best places to fee dig for precious opal. I simply said that the veins of fluorescent opal without play of color were located on claims owned by Royal Peacock Mines, not that there wasnt precious opal at Royal Peacock. They are two completely different types of opal occurences on the same property. Chris Rose --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 27 17:47:26 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Wed Apr 27 17:34:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] (John Cornish, etc.) References: <20050427054213.5799.qmail@post.phpwebhosting.com> <426FA99B.9000206@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <000b01c54b8b$e1441540$ada6490c@pete> Hi John, Reading that last reply (well, it wasn't the "last" reply, it was "a" reply) of yours to Bob Loeffler, where you said, > PS I enjoyed meeting you at the awards ceremony at this last years Denver Show. > Made me realize that maybe I need to do a better job of managing to meet people! I'm not exactly sure that I've ever met & talked to you in person, and "of course" I was at the Denver Sat. night awards ceremony, too, but I don't believe I ever actually talked to you. My loss! You did receive at least one award at the show, for your case(s) of zeolite minerals, I believe, didn't you? I know you have a room (you do, don't you?) at the... Holiday Inn?... there selling minerals, but I'm always so busy with things at the show, I usually don't have time to visit but 1/20 of the dealers at the other hotels. So, anyway, "Hi!", and perhaps next time I'm managed to make time to see hello for real! Pete Modreski From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 27 18:01:46 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Wed Apr 27 17:49:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle References: Message-ID: <000f01c54b8d$e0bbc080$ada6490c@pete> Wow, Aaron, I'm surprised to hear this. Let me be among many to say that you've done a superb job taking care of this List, and I hope someone will come forward as a replacement! Thanks an awful lot, for all your work on this! Personally, the only other "rockhounds" list I belong to is rocks-and-fossils, and they really don't seem to post many messages at all--often makes me wonder if that list is still out there, but I think it is. I guess I've not tried to look at the yahoo rockhounds list(s)--not sure I totally knew that there was one. Thank you again, and have lots of fun with what will be all your new free time! Pete Modreski From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Wed Apr 27 18:05:30 2005 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Wed Apr 27 18:05:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200504280105.j3S15lj6009863@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Understandable, Aaron! Life indeed moves on... A question for the group... Would there be any interest in moving to a more "thread-oriented" list? That would be one where a person posts a topic and then others comment on that string. See: http://www.indigorose.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=4 for an example. Upside: you can keep track of those string that interest you. Downside: I don't know if there is a "journaling" mode. GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Fox > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 5:46 PM > To: Rockhounds mailing list > Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle > > Greetings, all, > > I have taken care of the Rockhounds list for the last couple > of years, ever since Tom Corson elected to move on to other > things. I have decided that I too need to move on to other > things.... From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 27 18:25:12 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Wed Apr 27 18:12:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Virgin Valley opal References: Message-ID: <004f01c54b91$20b681e0$ada6490c@pete> I think this exchange, > > is there gem-quality opal also in Virgin Valley > > Yes, virgin valley is primarily known for its precious opal being found as limb casts in ancient lake bed sediments... is an interesting example of different people knowing different things, because they have different interests. It's kind of like the old fable about the blind men telling what they think the elephant is like, by feeling different parts of it. To people like us "glowhounds" [which I'm sure includes Don], Virgin Valley is most known for its massive, creamy, pale greenish, brightly fluorescent "common opal"; in fact, it's pretty much only known for that, among such mineral folks, who don't pay all that much attention to sources of gem opal--'cause they don't cut & polish rocks. But, au contraire, I can see that for people who work with gems, they would know Virgin Valley for its precious opal, and would only barely be aware of the veins of the massive fluorescent opal that are there. So, "It's very much like a tree", or "It's like a snake", or, .... what did the guy call it, who only felt its ear? Pete From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Wed Apr 27 19:07:34 2005 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Wed Apr 27 19:07:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle References: <000f01c54b8d$e0bbc080$ada6490c@pete> Message-ID: <00c401c54b97$0b17ef30$6701a8c0@GlennWimpee> DITTOs to all Pete said and many thanks for all you have done. I belong to no other rockhound list. If anyone feels he or she can do Aaron's old job PLEASE consider it! I for one really appreciate and enjoy all the great posts filled with info, experience, and vast knowledge. It would be a huge loss, even for pebble pickers like me. Glenn Wimpee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" > Wow, Aaron, I'm surprised to hear this. Let me be among many to say that > you've done a superb job taking care of this List, and I hope someone will > come forward as a replacement! Thanks an awful lot, for all your work on > this! > > Personally, the only other "rockhounds" list I belong to is > rocks-and-fossils, and they really don't seem to post many messages at > all--often makes me wonder if that list is still out there, but I think it > is. I guess I've not tried to look at the yahoo rockhounds list(s)--not > sure I totally knew that there was one. > > Thank you again, and have lots of fun with what will be all your new free > time! > > Pete Modreski > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Apr 27 19:26:34 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Apr 27 19:26:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'transition' of Rockhounds@drizzle References: Message-ID: <427049CF.5202@Tomaszewski.net> Aaron (and List!), I thank you for your outstanding service and polished administration. Keeping this List alive has been a boon to Rockhounding, and related areas of interest, worldwide. Consider including this significant accomplishment on your resume. List (and Aaron!), I would vote first for continuing the list, and format, into a third administration. I see no reason a smooth transition to another administrator can't be accomplished (other than Tom Corson and Aaron Fox are hard Acts to follow). Many of us have done it before, no reason not to do it again. This List rocks! But if the list can't be continued (at its current address) I would vote for a smooth transition to a new host/administrator so this wonderful group of Rockhounds can stay together. I hope we can reach consensus instead of being fragmented into several lists. We've worked on many issues as a List before, now we need to work on the issue of how to keep our List alive and intact. This is a great community, and I would be saddened and diminished to lose it. Kreigh Aaron Fox wrote: > > Greetings, all, > > I have taken care of the Rockhounds list for the last couple of years, > ever since Tom Corson elected to move on to other things. I have decided > that I too need to move on to other things, and that I no longer have the > time or desire to run the list. I've had a wonderful time doing it and met > a lot of exceptionally smart, motivated, and kind individuals, but I'm > ready for a change. > > My reasons: > 1) Time. Between finishing my thesis, working more than full time, and > other hobbies, I don't have the time to spend to really do the list > right (searchable archives, keep the webpage and FAQ updated), etc. It's > been neglected for a while (other than just basic admin duties), and I > feel that someone with more time (and interest) could really build the > list into something great. > > 2) Fading interest. Though I still rockhound on an irregular basis, I've > developed other hobbies that are taking precedence (Go, target shooting, > kayaking, getting in shape at the gym, and general IT-geekery). I no > longer have the deep interest in rockhounding that I once did, and that > makes it hard to want to spend time developing additional resources for > the mailing list. > > 3) Money. Rockhounds costs me $10.00/month to be run through drizzle.com. > It's not a lot of money, but it's basically a box of .45 ACP ammo a month. > Since I'm only paid for 30 hours a week right now, any savings is a good > thing. Note that this is NOT a push for funding; money is the least of the > issues. > > Issues with the list disappearing: > 1) Posting Archives I have an incomplete set of Rockhounds posting > archives: some from the infodyne.com days (1993-1998) and some from the > Gnu Mailman days (~2002-2005). I'd like for these to have a home online > somewhere, as they have a wealth of information in them. I can host them > for a limited time on my roommate's DSL connection, but I'd much rather > they find a permament home somewhere with someone willing to develop them > as a community resource (searchability, etc.) > > I DO NOT want to turn these posting over to someone who plans to make a > profit from them; the list has always been run on a non-profit, > non-marketing basis as a community resource, and I feel the archived > postings should stay the same way. > > In an idea world, whoever decides to take over the list (if they do so) > could also maintain the archives (provided they have storage space). I > believe that, all told, the archives 'Zipped are less than 50 Mb. > > The options: > 1) Someone else takes over running the list at drizzle.com. You'll need a > dialup shell account at drizzle.com ($15.00/month), plus the mailing list > fees ($10.00/month). All told, the cost is ($300/year - $235 if you pay > for the year in full); I have a personal email account at drizzle, so the > cost is 'less' for me. Otherwise, the list is all set up to go. Anyone > willing to do this should contact me offline and we'll talk. > > 2) Someone else takes over the list and migrates it to their own site. I > can help out with Gnu Mailman setup issues, and would be willing to foot > the bill for a few months to have the existing mail alias at drizzle be > redirected to the new domain / server. I would advise that, if you > choose this option, that you NOT make the same mistakes that I did, and > manually subscribe everyone (that was a lot of privacy hassles). Perhaps > an opt-in message instead, backed up by an automagic message from drizzle > (for a while) that forwards users to the new site. > > Anyone willing to take the list and migrate it, please email me AND the > list in general. > > 3) Migrate to a 'free' service such as the Rockhounds groups on Yahoo. I'm > pretty sure that most people on the list belong to multiple mailing lists, > and that this one is probably kind of redundant. Though I dearly prefer > text-based email over HTML web forums, personally. > > If nothing happens, Rockhounds@drizzle will terminate at the end of June > 2005. I will run a generic bounce through the end of July 2005 that will > list some alternatives to the Rockhounds list, with URLs and references. > After July 2005, the rockhounds@drizzle alias will go dark. I will make > all the archives available as downloaded zip files from my roommate's > server through the end of July 2005 (address to be posted once we finish > moving and get DSL set up again). > > Questions, comments, flames, and volunteers either to me offline > (afox@drizzle.com) or, if you need to, to the list as a whole. > > Thanks, all! > > Aaron Fox > Rockhounds Admin > > -- > afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox > FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your > computer. Press any key to reboot From kadok at infowest.com Wed Apr 27 19:44:46 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Wed Apr 27 19:44:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle In-Reply-To: <000f01c54b8d$e0bbc080$ada6490c@pete> Message-ID: <20050428024434.16D797A270@delivery.infowest.com> Please add my thanks to you, Aaron, for a super job; and also my sincere hopes that someone else will take it over; I would certainly hate to see the list end now!. Margaret Malm Wow, Aaron, I'm surprised to hear this. Let me be among many to say that you've done a superb job taking care of this List, and I hope someone will come forward as a replacement! Thanks an awful lot, for all your work on this! Personally, the only other "rockhounds" list I belong to is rocks-and-fossils, and they really don't seem to post many messages at all--often makes me wonder if that list is still out there, but I think it is. I guess I've not tried to look at the yahoo rockhounds list(s)--not sure I totally knew that there was one. Thank you again, and have lots of fun with what will be all your new free time! Pete Modreski _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From geenet2 at mchsi.com Wed Apr 27 19:44:49 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Wed Apr 27 19:44:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle References: Message-ID: <004501c54b9c$3f5f78d0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Thank you for all the work you've done for the list, it's a huge undertaking for one person. BUT the World moves on, and we can adapt. Personally I vote for moving the list to yahoogroups. It's takes practically zero effort to start a group at Yahoo. I'm on several Yahoo group email lists myself, and it works well. I think someone mentioned another rockhound group already on Yahoo. If someone is familiar with it and it's general "tone" let us know. If it's a good list, all of us could join that one, OR just start another list of our own. Of course if someone is willing to take over the drizzle.com list, that'd be great too. Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Fox" To: "Rockhounds mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 5:45 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle > Greetings, all, > > I have taken care of the Rockhounds list for the last couple of years, > ever since Tom Corson elected to move on to other things. I have decided > that I too need to move on to other things, and that I no longer have the > time or desire to run the list. I've had a wonderful time doing it and met > a lot of exceptionally smart, motivated, and kind individuals, but I'm > ready for a change. From kahako at verizon.net Wed Apr 27 19:49:11 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Apr 27 19:49:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'transition' of Rockhounds@drizzle In-Reply-To: <427049CF.5202@Tomaszewski.net> References: <427049CF.5202@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050427163845.04429008@incoming.verizon.net> I wrote this first to Aaron off-list, but have decided to post it to all in case it attracts someone's interest. I do not have the computer skill to manage the list, but I do have (a) time (I'm semi-retired), (b) abiding interest for a long term commitment, and (c) the ability to contribute some (not all) to the expense of operation. So if there is someone who has the computer skill but is short on a, b, or c, maybe I could be an assistant, especially if I'm told exactly what to do! Aloha, Kitty At 04:26 PM 4/27/2005, you wrote: >Aaron (and List!), > >I thank you for your outstanding service and polished administration. >Keeping this List alive has been a boon to Rockhounding, and related >areas of interest, worldwide. Consider including this significant >accomplishment on your resume. > >List (and Aaron!), > >I would vote first for continuing the list, and format, into a third >administration. I see no reason a smooth transition to another >administrator can't be accomplished (other than Tom Corson and Aaron Fox >are hard Acts to follow). Many of us have done it before, no reason not >to do it again. This List rocks! > >But if the list can't be continued (at its current address) I would vote >for a smooth transition to a new host/administrator so this wonderful >group of Rockhounds can stay together. I hope we can reach consensus >instead of being fragmented into several lists. > >We've worked on many issues as a List before, now we need to work on the >issue of how to keep our List alive and intact. This is a great >community, and I would be saddened and diminished to lose it. > >Kreigh From tam2819 at cox.net Wed Apr 27 15:07:14 2005 From: tam2819 at cox.net (T.A.Masters) Date: Wed Apr 27 22:10:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle References: Message-ID: <42700D12.8000202@cox.net> Aaron, Sad to see you leave, wish you well in your new interests. You have done an excellent job. I hope the list as it is finds a new leader. Great luck, Terrie From Ted at crystalgems.com Thu Apr 28 04:48:57 2005 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted) Date: Thu Apr 28 04:49:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002c01c54be8$20f4d7e0$0200a8c0@gametime> Aaron: I've been dreading this message from you for quite some time now. While it is inevitable that everyone moves on, I was amazed that you were able to keep the list up as you worked on your Doctorate. Please realize that your "minimum" efforts are far better than many others maximum effort. You took over an excellent and active list from Tom and still you improved it. What should have been a very difficult task, you achieved seemingly without overt effort. This is not meant to detract Tom's achievements with our old list, just to emphasize yours. I thank you for all of your efforts and postings over the years. I also encourage you to keep a file of our names, addresses, emails and if possible phone numbers. When you pass nearby in the future you have the opportunity and invitation to stop and visit. Many of us started rockhounding early, then had our attention spans distracted and diverted. Only when we became older did we rediscover our love of rockhounding. So, don't be surprised when later in life you discover that finding and digging rocks is interesting again. Ted Kowalski 13504 Sedgwick Drive Fredericksburg, VA 22407 Ted@Crystalgems.com (540)786-1208 Many cheers!! Ted -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Fox Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 6:46 PM To: Rockhounds mailing list Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle Greetings, all, I have taken care of the Rockhounds list for the last couple of years, ever since Tom Corson elected to move on to other things. I have decided that I too need to move on to other things, and that I no longer have the time or desire to run the list. I've had a wonderful time doing it and met a lot of exceptionally smart, motivated, and kind individuals, but I'm ready for a change. My reasons: 1) Time. Between finishing my thesis, working more than full time, and other hobbies, I don't have the time to spend to really do the list right (searchable archives, keep the webpage and FAQ updated), etc. It's been neglected for a while (other than just basic admin duties), and I feel that someone with more time (and interest) could really build the list into something great. 2) Fading interest. Though I still rockhound on an irregular basis, I've developed other hobbies that are taking precedence (Go, target shooting, kayaking, getting in shape at the gym, and general IT-geekery). I no longer have the deep interest in rockhounding that I once did, and that makes it hard to want to spend time developing additional resources for the mailing list. 3) Money. Rockhounds costs me $10.00/month to be run through drizzle.com. It's not a lot of money, but it's basically a box of .45 ACP ammo a month. Since I'm only paid for 30 hours a week right now, any savings is a good thing. Note that this is NOT a push for funding; money is the least of the issues. Issues with the list disappearing: 1) Posting Archives I have an incomplete set of Rockhounds posting archives: some from the infodyne.com days (1993-1998) and some from the Gnu Mailman days (~2002-2005). I'd like for these to have a home online somewhere, as they have a wealth of information in them. I can host them for a limited time on my roommate's DSL connection, but I'd much rather they find a permament home somewhere with someone willing to develop them as a community resource (searchability, etc.) I DO NOT want to turn these posting over to someone who plans to make a profit from them; the list has always been run on a non-profit, non-marketing basis as a community resource, and I feel the archived postings should stay the same way. In an idea world, whoever decides to take over the list (if they do so) could also maintain the archives (provided they have storage space). I believe that, all told, the archives 'Zipped are less than 50 Mb. The options: 1) Someone else takes over running the list at drizzle.com. You'll need a dialup shell account at drizzle.com ($15.00/month), plus the mailing list fees ($10.00/month). All told, the cost is ($300/year - $235 if you pay for the year in full); I have a personal email account at drizzle, so the cost is 'less' for me. Otherwise, the list is all set up to go. Anyone willing to do this should contact me offline and we'll talk. 2) Someone else takes over the list and migrates it to their own site. I can help out with Gnu Mailman setup issues, and would be willing to foot the bill for a few months to have the existing mail alias at drizzle be redirected to the new domain / server. I would advise that, if you choose this option, that you NOT make the same mistakes that I did, and manually subscribe everyone (that was a lot of privacy hassles). Perhaps an opt-in message instead, backed up by an automagic message from drizzle (for a while) that forwards users to the new site. Anyone willing to take the list and migrate it, please email me AND the list in general. 3) Migrate to a 'free' service such as the Rockhounds groups on Yahoo. I'm pretty sure that most people on the list belong to multiple mailing lists, and that this one is probably kind of redundant. Though I dearly prefer text-based email over HTML web forums, personally. If nothing happens, Rockhounds@drizzle will terminate at the end of June 2005. I will run a generic bounce through the end of July 2005 that will list some alternatives to the Rockhounds list, with URLs and references. After July 2005, the rockhounds@drizzle alias will go dark. I will make all the archives available as downloaded zip files from my roommate's server through the end of July 2005 (address to be posted once we finish moving and get DSL set up again). Questions, comments, flames, and volunteers either to me offline (afox@drizzle.com) or, if you need to, to the list as a whole. Thanks, all! Aaron Fox Rockhounds Admin -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From DOMMELEN at DAL.CA Thu Apr 28 05:24:13 2005 From: DOMMELEN at DAL.CA (Ronnie Van Dommelen) Date: Thu Apr 28 05:24:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1114691053.4270d5ed957cf@my2.dal.ca> Aaron, Thank you so much for running this list over the past several years. It has been an invaluable learning resourse and there are fantastic people on the list that I have met. Your commitment has meant an incredible amount to all of us. Ronnie Van Dommelen From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 28 06:28:01 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Thu Apr 28 06:28:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050428132801.40778.qmail@web51010.mail.yahoo.com> Aaron, Let me also say that you've done a great job running the list. To the rest of the members of the group, we have to realize that the only thing that is constant in this world is change. As for where we go from here, much as I'd like to help, I'm not qualified to moderate this list. I have the time, but that's about all. My expertise is lacking. For example, I don't even understand the pros and cons of Text-based vs. HTML lists. The only advantages I see in maintaining the list as-is with a new administrator are keeping the archives intact, and of course being the least disruptive to the group as a whole. Alternatively, Yahoogroups is a viable alternative. The rocks-and-fossils group is alive and well, although not as active as this group. It covers much the same territory. If we all moved to rocks-and-fossils we'd at least all stay together. That's my two cents worth (before taxes). Jim Daly --- Aaron Fox wrote: > Greetings, all, > > I have taken care of the Rockhounds list for the > last couple of years, > ever since Tom Corson elected to move on to other > things. I have decided > that I too need to move on to other things, and that > I no longer have the > time or desire to run the list. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ From dmschmidt at sprint.ca Thu Apr 28 06:50:59 2005 From: dmschmidt at sprint.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Thu Apr 28 06:50:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle References: <20050428132801.40778.qmail@web51010.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0dd101c54bf9$4efa65e0$6602a8c0@remains> Aaron Thank you VERY much for all of your patience, hard work, and dedication! You will be missed! Good luck with all that you do in the future! Michael From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Apr 28 07:13:45 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Apr 28 07:13:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle In-Reply-To: <0dd101c54bf9$4efa65e0$6602a8c0@remains> Message-ID: And also, Aaron, many thanks for helping people out in the periphery of mineralogy... such as programming tips, programming languages, free compilers... Success Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Michael Schmidt Verzonden: donderdag 28 april 2005 15:51 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle Aaron Thank you VERY much for all of your patience, hard work, and dedication! You will be missed! Good luck with all that you do in the future! Michael _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From albalmer at att.net Thu Apr 28 07:50:39 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Apr 28 07:50:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle In-Reply-To: <200504280105.j3S15lj6009863@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200504280105.j3S15lj6009863@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <4270F83F.506@att.net> Gary Brown wrote: > Understandable, Aaron! Life indeed moves on... > > A question for the group... Would there be any interest in moving to a more > "thread-oriented" list? That would be one where a person posts a topic and > then others comment on that string. > > See: http://www.indigorose.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=4 for an example. > > Upside: you can keep track of those string that interest you. Any good mail client will do that with ordinary email. > Downside: I don't know if there is a "journaling" mode. > From CRAZYDOVE at aol.com Thu Apr 28 08:00:58 2005 From: CRAZYDOVE at aol.com (CRAZYDOVE@aol.com) Date: Thu Apr 28 08:01:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle Message-ID: <1d7.3b84498e.2fa254aa@aol.com> I'd like to echo the sentiments of the other list members, Aaron..you will be missed, but hopefully we'll see you again in the future! I wasn't very active on the list..but I appreciate the professional way it was run and maintained! Thank you very much and much good luck for your future! Jackie --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From betdav97 at aol.com Thu Apr 28 08:02:01 2005 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Thu Apr 28 08:02:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle In-Reply-To: <42700D12.8000202@cox.net> References: <42700D12.8000202@cox.net> Message-ID: <8C71A1A5E011434-A04-1A0A0@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com> Hello all, I would also like to echo several comments, this has been a great list and will be very sad to see its' demise. I hope someone takes it over. I belong to several Yahoo lists, and they are not the same as this one. Unless we moved the entire membership and kept everything the same, but that would also open up a wave of new subscribers. And between you and me, some of those people are strange. Just a comment, I don't mean to offend anyone. I delete most of the messages on the other lists. Aaron, you have done a fine job and created some thing worth saving. But I don't have the finances to keep it going. I am barely surviving as a business, and my wife supports the household. Good luck in your future endeavors and thanks for all the great work in promoting rock hounding. Dave Phillips Sunset Fossils & Minerals Morgantown, WV --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From nmartin at bbn.com Thu Apr 28 08:03:54 2005 From: nmartin at bbn.com (Nathan C. Martin II) Date: Thu Apr 28 08:03:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20050428105346.01f64e38@po2.bbn.com> Aaron, I'd simply like to add my "thank you" to the chorus. I, like many others, sincerely appreciate the efforts that you have made on our behalf. I wish you all the best in your future endeavors. Although I agree that the list should not turn into a for-profit venture, I find it useful enough that I would be willing to make a small annual contribution to partially offset the cost of running the list. If this allows someone else to more easily take on the task of running the list then I would guess that several list members might be similarly inclined to help out. Just something to think about for those who might have the skills to take on the task. Best regards, Nate Martin At 06:45 PM 4/27/2005, you wrote: >Greetings, all, > >I have taken care of the Rockhounds list for the last couple of years, >ever since Tom Corson elected to move on to other things. I have decided >that I too need to move on to other things, and that I no longer have the >time or desire to run the list. I've had a wonderful time doing it and met >a lot of exceptionally smart, motivated, and kind individuals, but I'm >ready for a change. > >My reasons: >1) Time. Between finishing my thesis, working more than full time, and >other hobbies, I don't have the time to spend to really do the list >right (searchable archives, keep the webpage and FAQ updated), etc. It's >been neglected for a while (other than just basic admin duties), and I >feel that someone with more time (and interest) could really build the >list into something great. > >2) Fading interest. Though I still rockhound on an irregular basis, I've >developed other hobbies that are taking precedence (Go, target shooting, >kayaking, getting in shape at the gym, and general IT-geekery). I no >longer have the deep interest in rockhounding that I once did, and that >makes it hard to want to spend time developing additional resources for >the mailing list. > >3) Money. Rockhounds costs me $10.00/month to be run through drizzle.com. >It's not a lot of money, but it's basically a box of .45 ACP ammo a month. >Since I'm only paid for 30 hours a week right now, any savings is a good >thing. Note that this is NOT a push for funding; money is the least of the >issues. > >Issues with the list disappearing: >1) Posting Archives I have an incomplete set of Rockhounds posting >archives: some from the infodyne.com days (1993-1998) and some from the >Gnu Mailman days (~2002-2005). I'd like for these to have a home online >somewhere, as they have a wealth of information in them. I can host them >for a limited time on my roommate's DSL connection, but I'd much rather >they find a permament home somewhere with someone willing to develop them >as a community resource (searchability, etc.) > >I DO NOT want to turn these posting over to someone who plans to make a >profit from them; the list has always been run on a non-profit, >non-marketing basis as a community resource, and I feel the archived >postings should stay the same way. > >In an idea world, whoever decides to take over the list (if they do so) >could also maintain the archives (provided they have storage space). I >believe that, all told, the archives 'Zipped are less than 50 Mb. > >The options: >1) Someone else takes over running the list at drizzle.com. You'll need a >dialup shell account at drizzle.com ($15.00/month), plus the mailing list >fees ($10.00/month). All told, the cost is ($300/year - $235 if you pay >for the year in full); I have a personal email account at drizzle, so the >cost is 'less' for me. Otherwise, the list is all set up to go. Anyone >willing to do this should contact me offline and we'll talk. > >2) Someone else takes over the list and migrates it to their own site. I >can help out with Gnu Mailman setup issues, and would be willing to foot >the bill for a few months to have the existing mail alias at drizzle be >redirected to the new domain / server. I would advise that, if you >choose this option, that you NOT make the same mistakes that I did, and >manually subscribe everyone (that was a lot of privacy hassles). Perhaps >an opt-in message instead, backed up by an automagic message from drizzle >(for a while) that forwards users to the new site. > >Anyone willing to take the list and migrate it, please email me AND the >list in general. > >3) Migrate to a 'free' service such as the Rockhounds groups on Yahoo. I'm >pretty sure that most people on the list belong to multiple mailing lists, >and that this one is probably kind of redundant. Though I dearly prefer >text-based email over HTML web forums, personally. > >If nothing happens, Rockhounds@drizzle will terminate at the end of June >2005. I will run a generic bounce through the end of July 2005 that will >list some alternatives to the Rockhounds list, with URLs and references. >After July 2005, the rockhounds@drizzle alias will go dark. I will make >all the archives available as downloaded zip files from my roommate's >server through the end of July 2005 (address to be posted once we finish >moving and get DSL set up again). > >Questions, comments, flames, and volunteers either to me offline >(afox@drizzle.com) or, if you need to, to the list as a whole. > >Thanks, all! > >Aaron Fox >Rockhounds Admin > >-- > afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox > FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your > computer. Press any key to reboot > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Thu Apr 28 08:42:19 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Thu Apr 28 08:44:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4271045B.4050902@tenforward.com> Hi Aaron and All, I've begun this letter several times now only to hit delete and start over again. It's been a pleasure having you as "our leader". Your sure and steady hand have enriched this board, us and the mineral collecting community in general in spades. As words can only inadequately express, you will be missed. As mentioned in some of the earlier posts, I would also hate to see this list fragment, it is too vibrant of a community. To few of those here post, but of those that do, there is a wonderful well spring of information constantly being bandied about and I have very much enjoyed being a part of it. My fondest hope is that this list survives. More then words can express Aaron, thank you. Sincerely, John Aaron Fox wrote: >Greetings, all, > >I have taken care of the Rockhounds list for the last couple of years, >ever since Tom Corson elected to move on to other things. I have decided >that I too need to move on to other things, and that I no longer have the >time or desire to run the list. I've had a wonderful time doing it and met >a lot of exceptionally smart, motivated, and kind individuals, but I'm >ready for a change. > >My reasons: >1) Time. Between finishing my thesis, working more than full time, and >other hobbies, I don't have the time to spend to really do the list >right (searchable archives, keep the webpage and FAQ updated), etc. It's >been neglected for a while (other than just basic admin duties), and I >feel that someone with more time (and interest) could really build the >list into something great. > >2) Fading interest. Though I still rockhound on an irregular basis, I've >developed other hobbies that are taking precedence (Go, target shooting, >kayaking, getting in shape at the gym, and general IT-geekery). I no >longer have the deep interest in rockhounding that I once did, and that >makes it hard to want to spend time developing additional resources for >the mailing list. > >3) Money. Rockhounds costs me $10.00/month to be run through drizzle.com. >It's not a lot of money, but it's basically a box of .45 ACP ammo a month. >Since I'm only paid for 30 hours a week right now, any savings is a good >thing. Note that this is NOT a push for funding; money is the least of the >issues. > >Issues with the list disappearing: >1) Posting Archives I have an incomplete set of Rockhounds posting >archives: some from the infodyne.com days (1993-1998) and some from the >Gnu Mailman days (~2002-2005). I'd like for these to have a home online >somewhere, as they have a wealth of information in them. I can host them >for a limited time on my roommate's DSL connection, but I'd much rather >they find a permament home somewhere with someone willing to develop them >as a community resource (searchability, etc.) > >I DO NOT want to turn these posting over to someone who plans to make a >profit from them; the list has always been run on a non-profit, >non-marketing basis as a community resource, and I feel the archived >postings should stay the same way. > >In an idea world, whoever decides to take over the list (if they do so) >could also maintain the archives (provided they have storage space). I >believe that, all told, the archives 'Zipped are less than 50 Mb. > >The options: >1) Someone else takes over running the list at drizzle.com. You'll need a >dialup shell account at drizzle.com ($15.00/month), plus the mailing list >fees ($10.00/month). All told, the cost is ($300/year - $235 if you pay >for the year in full); I have a personal email account at drizzle, so the >cost is 'less' for me. Otherwise, the list is all set up to go. Anyone >willing to do this should contact me offline and we'll talk. > >2) Someone else takes over the list and migrates it to their own site. I >can help out with Gnu Mailman setup issues, and would be willing to foot >the bill for a few months to have the existing mail alias at drizzle be >redirected to the new domain / server. I would advise that, if you >choose this option, that you NOT make the same mistakes that I did, and >manually subscribe everyone (that was a lot of privacy hassles). Perhaps >an opt-in message instead, backed up by an automagic message from drizzle >(for a while) that forwards users to the new site. > >Anyone willing to take the list and migrate it, please email me AND the >list in general. > >3) Migrate to a 'free' service such as the Rockhounds groups on Yahoo. I'm >pretty sure that most people on the list belong to multiple mailing lists, >and that this one is probably kind of redundant. Though I dearly prefer >text-based email over HTML web forums, personally. > >If nothing happens, Rockhounds@drizzle will terminate at the end of June >2005. I will run a generic bounce through the end of July 2005 that will >list some alternatives to the Rockhounds list, with URLs and references. >After July 2005, the rockhounds@drizzle alias will go dark. I will make >all the archives available as downloaded zip files from my roommate's >server through the end of July 2005 (address to be posted once we finish >moving and get DSL set up again). > >Questions, comments, flames, and volunteers either to me offline >(afox@drizzle.com) or, if you need to, to the list as a whole. > >Thanks, all! > >Aaron Fox >Rockhounds Admin > > > From naturesemp at earthlink.net Thu Apr 28 08:56:27 2005 From: naturesemp at earthlink.net (Nature's Emporium) Date: Thu Apr 28 08:56:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle Message-ID: <427107AB.9080307@earthlink.net> I'm one of those that doesn't post often and has on the "old" list before Aaron was so kind to take it over. It has been fun and a joy to be on the list and learn from so many. Thank you Aaron! And I also hope that someone can take over the list. I don't have the knowledge but if no one else steps forward, am willing to learn drizzle and to maintain the list as it is. Do agree with the others that some of the groups at Yahoo are a little strange and more ads than knowledge while this group is more about sharing the knowledge. Thanks again Aaron and good luck Gloria From lanny at lrream.com Thu Apr 28 09:24:09 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Thu Apr 28 09:21:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Aaron, Sorry to see you go, both from the list administration and apparently from rockhounding. It was great meeting you and collecting with you for a couple days a few years ago. Best wishes in the career and new ventures for fun. Regards, Lanny On Apr 27, 2005, at 3:45 PM, Aaron Fox wrote: > Greetings, all, > > I have taken care of the Rockhounds list for the last couple of years, > ever since Tom Corson elected to move on to other things. I have > decided > that I too need to move on to other things, and that I no longer have > the > time or desire to run the list. I've had a wonderful time doing it and > met > a lot of exceptionally smart, motivated, and kind individuals, but I'm > ready for a change. From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Apr 28 09:33:19 2005 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Thu Apr 28 09:34:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle References: Message-ID: <00e501c54c10$014b7fc0$12b4010a@warren> I have a note into the folks at Drizzle to find out what it would take/cost to continue the list there, since I don't need a dial up account. I will keep the list posted. Julie From afox at drizzle.com Thu Apr 28 09:36:36 2005 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Thu Apr 28 09:36:39 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just a quick note (more once I get off work tonight). I'm not totally abandoning rockhounding; I just don't do it all that much anymore. I still go out a couple times a year, and plan on still doing so. Just not quite as hardcore as I once was. It's still a neat hobby that I want to keep (peripherally) involved in, just not to the extent I am now... And thank y'all for all the thanks! I'll start compiling transition options when I get home tonight. The response has been great! --- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From lanny at lrream.com Thu Apr 28 09:43:01 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Thu Apr 28 09:40:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <95E4D576-B804-11D9-A910-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> It is too bad that Aaron has to give up the administration of the list; he has done a great job. We survived an administrative change when Tom Corson had to stop, so we can do it again. Now it's time to beg. Someone with the time please take over the list. This is the best list and part of that is because of the type of list it is, handled independently. Please, please! If you don't know how to do it, but truly have the time and energy, ask Aaron or someone else, you can learn. There I've done it, I begged. The reason being I really hate Yahoo Groups. Yes, it's a nice service, yes it's convenient, yes it's easy to set up, blah, blah, blah. But why would anyone want to move to Yahoo and have to click through the ads and have their every move tracked by Yahoo (even when you leave Yahoo to any affiliated site)? If there is no one who can take over Rockhounds, then why not just commit list suicide? Just kidding, but only half kidding. The simplest thing to do would be to just go to Yahoo and join the exihisting list of the same name -- Rockhound. It presently has 125 members who spend most of their time sleeping. I just checked, there were only 7 posts in March, and none in April. If we have to, we can change it from a sleeping entity to the most active lists in rockhounding on Yahoo. But let's not, and let's not spend the rest of our lives clicking on "continue to message" buttons to get away from the ads, and have to log in, periodically supply our password or log in again just because Yahoo wants us to in the middle of a session and suffer through all the rest of their administration. Just my opinion and a few words for thought. Regards, Lanny From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Apr 28 09:45:36 2005 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Thu Apr 28 09:46:39 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'beginning' of Rockhounds@drizzle (loL) References: <95E4D576-B804-11D9-A910-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <00ee01c54c11$bb009620$12b4010a@warren> Don't worry, don't worry - there have been enough helper volunteers that we will pull this thing off. I don't really care for Yahoo. I'd really love to see it at Drizzle. I have the technical knowhow, though not often the time...a lot of folks have time, but don't have the knowhow. We'll work something out. Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle > It is too bad that Aaron has to give up the administration of the list; he > has done a great job. We survived an administrative change when Tom Corson > had to stop, so we can do it again. > > Now it's time to beg. Someone with the time please take over the list. > This is the best list and part of that is because of the type of list it > is, handled independently. Please, please! If you don't know how to do it, > but truly have the time and energy, ask Aaron or someone else, you can > learn. From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Thu Apr 28 09:53:53 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Thu Apr 28 09:56:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] (John Cornish, etc.) In-Reply-To: <000b01c54b8b$e1441540$ada6490c@pete> References: <20050427054213.5799.qmail@post.phpwebhosting.com> <426FA99B.9000206@tenforward.com> <000b01c54b8b$e1441540$ada6490c@pete> Message-ID: <42711521.6060003@tenforward.com> Hi Pete, I remember my first Tucson. I'd been reading the magazines and I'd salivated over the pictures and then one day, I was there. It was such a magic time, room after room filled with treasures beyond imagining in over a dozen shows. Like a madman I raced from one to the other trying desperately to take it all in. It was so fantastic, and heck, this was just the minerals part of it! Another of Tucson's many facets that I thrilled to was quite simply the people. Everyone I'd ever read about seemingly was there. It was fascinating to meet folks like Rock (a guy who's been everywhere and done everything!) to folks like Laszlo Horvath (incredibly focused on Mont Saint-Hilaire) and Bryan Lees. It was like the royal family of mineral people and they were all there and somehow, miraculously, so was I. It was great! And then it got better, they were even approachable and would even take a moment to say hello or to answer a question or to just bask in the praise of this neophyte enthusiast. Again, it was great! And so, to me, your comment regarding people is very relevant as this very thing is one of the true high points of my show experiences each year. I'd tried to keep half a eye out for you at Tucson, but things can get so very hectic. I will be attending the upcoming Fall Colorado Mineral and Fossil Show running through September 14 - 18th in the Holiday Inn in Denver and it would be a pleasure to meet you finally. My friend Scott Kliene of Great Basin Minerals has asked me to again share a room with him and together we'll be in room number #124. My fingers are crossed we'll see you there, after all, it's easier to make time to see a friend, then to see just another dealer! Specimens of heulandite and mordenite from my Rat's Nest Claim where represented in two awards. Rudy Tschernich from the Rice Northwest Museum of Rocks and Minerals won the C.E. "Shorty" Withers Trophy and Bill Hawes won the Oversize Cabinet award. Have a great day and thanks for writing. All the very best, John Peter J. Modreski wrote: >Hi John, > >Reading that last reply (well, it wasn't the "last" reply, it was "a" reply) >of yours to Bob Loeffler, where you said, > > > >>PS I enjoyed meeting you at the awards ceremony at this last years >> >> >Denver Show. > > > >Made me realize that maybe I need to do a better job of managing to meet >people! I'm not exactly sure that I've ever met & talked to you in person, >and "of course" I was at the Denver Sat. night awards ceremony, too, but I >don't believe I ever actually talked to you. My loss! You did receive at >least one award at the show, for your case(s) of zeolite minerals, I >believe, didn't you? > >I know you have a room (you do, don't you?) at the... Holiday Inn?... there >selling minerals, but I'm always so busy with things at the show, I usually >don't have time to visit but 1/20 of the dealers at the other hotels. > >So, anyway, "Hi!", and perhaps next time I'm managed to make time to see >hello for real! > >Pete Modreski > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From fossilnut at aol.com Thu Apr 28 10:37:16 2005 From: fossilnut at aol.com (fossilnut@aol.com) Date: Thu Apr 28 10:37:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C71A300E4AB4F3-A4C-8ECE@mblk-d35.sysops.aol.com> Aaron: Thanks and best wishes in the future. -----Original Message----- From: Aaron Fox To: Rockhounds mailing list Sent: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 15:45:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle Greetings, all, I have taken care of the Rockhounds list for the last couple of years, ever since Tom Corson elected to move on to other things. I have decided that I too need to move on to other things, and that I no longer have the time or desire to run the list. I've had a wonderful time doing it and met a lot of exceptionally smart, motivated, and kind individuals, but I'm ready for a change. My reasons: 1) Time. Between finishing my thesis, working more than full time, and other hobbies, I don't have the time to spend to really do the list right (searchable archives, keep the webpage and FAQ updated), etc. It's been neglected for a while (other than just basic admin duties), and I feel that someone with more time (and interest) could really build the list into something great. 2) Fading interest. Though I still rockhound on an irregular basis, I've developed other hobbies that are taking precedence (Go, target shooting, kayaking, getting in shape at the gym, and general IT-geekery). I no longer have the deep interest in rockhounding that I once did, and that makes it hard to want to spend time developing additional resources for the mailing list. 3) Money. Rockhounds costs me $10.00/month to be run through drizzle.com. It's not a lot of money, but it's basically a box of .45 ACP ammo a month. Since I'm only paid for 30 hours a week right now, any savings is a good thing. Note that this is NOT a push for funding; money is the least of the issues. Issues with the list disappearing: 1) Posting Archives I have an incomplete set of Rockhounds posting archives: some from the infodyne.com days (1993-1998) and some from the Gnu Mailman days (~2002-2005). I'd like for these to have a home online somewhere, as they have a wealth of information in them. I can host them for a limited time on my roommate's DSL connection, but I'd much rather they find a permament home somewhere with someone willing to develop them as a community resource (searchability, etc.) I DO NOT want to turn these posting over to someone who plans to make a profit from them; the list has always been run on a non-profit, non-marketing basis as a community resource, and I feel the archived postings should stay the same way. In an idea world, whoever decides to take over the list (if they do so) could also maintain the archives (provided they have storage space). I believe that, all told, the archives 'Zipped are less than 50 Mb. The options: 1) Someone else takes over running the list at drizzle.com. You'll need a dialup shell account at drizzle.com ($15.00/month), plus the mailing list fees ($10.00/month). All told, the cost is ($300/year - $235 if you pay for the year in full); I have a personal email account at drizzle, so the cost is 'less' for me. Otherwise, the list is all set up to go. Anyone willing to do this should contact me offline and we'll talk. 2) Someone else takes over the list and migrates it to their own site. I can help out with Gnu Mailman setup issues, and would be willing to foot the bill for a few months to have the existing mail alias at drizzle be redirected to the new domain / server. I would advise that, if you choose this option, that you NOT make the same mistakes that I did, and manually subscribe everyone (that was a lot of privacy hassles). Perhaps an opt-in message instead, backed up by an automagic message from drizzle (for a while) that forwards users to the new site. Anyone willing to take the list and migrate it, please email me AND the list in general. 3) Migrate to a 'free' service such as the Rockhounds groups on Yahoo. I'm pretty sure that most people on the list belong to multiple mailing lists, and that this one is probably kind of redundant. Though I dearly prefer text-based email over HTML web forums, personally. If nothing happens, Rockhounds@drizzle will terminate at the end of June 2005. I will run a generic bounce through the end of July 2005 that will list some alternatives to the Rockhounds list, with URLs and references. After July 2005, the rockhounds@drizzle alias will go dark. I will make all the archives available as downloaded zip files from my roommate's server through the end of July 2005 (address to be posted once we finish moving and get DSL set up again). Questions, comments, flames, and volunteers either to me offline (afox@drizzle.com) or, if you need to, to the list as a whole. Thanks, all! Aaron Fox Rockhounds Admin -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rik.dillen at skynet.be Thu Apr 28 11:19:32 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Thu Apr 28 11:19:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Someone taking over Rockhounds@drizzle ? In-Reply-To: <8C71A300E4AB4F3-A4C-8ECE@mblk-d35.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <200504281819.j3SIJWDb006402@outmx002.isp.belgacom.be> Hi Aaron (and others, of course), First of all : a big thank you for your effort during all these years to keep this list running. In nearly all cases I got an answer to my questions on the list. It has been more than useful to me. And what's more, I was able to be in contact with many people that otherwise I wouldn't have met. Such a list has much more direct and indirect effects than any of us can know about. Unfortunately can't be of any service to the list, as at present already 24 hours a day is far from sufficient to do what I want/have to do. Moreover, I don't know enough about software and networking technology to contribute. BTW concerning HTML vs. plain text I have an opinion that is a bit different from others : I vote in favour of HTML. We live in 2005, and the technological means allow this without any problem. There are many advantages : it's not only a question of being able to present a messages in a nicer way, but also to use colour to emphasize some part of the text, symbols, bold/italic/underline, bullets, numbering of lists, tables, pointing to URL's and, why not, limited attachments (with a limitation of e.g. 100 kB or so). I sincerely hope that someone will be found to continue this list, because we all badly need it. Aaron, once again, thank you VERY much and I wish you very sincerely all the best. Best regards, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ From cjkuo at verizon.net Thu Apr 28 11:33:54 2005 From: cjkuo at verizon.net (Jimmy Kuo) Date: Thu Apr 28 11:35:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Someone taking over Rockhounds@drizzle ? References: <200504281819.j3SIJWDb006402@outmx002.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: <001701c54c20$d4fe7ec0$6901a8c0@LOSJKUOLT2> > BTW concerning HTML vs. plain text I have an opinion that is a bit different from others : I vote in favour of HTML. We > live in 2005, and the technological means allow this without any problem. There are many advantages : it's not only a > question of being able to present a messages in a nicer way, but also to use colour to emphasize some part of the text, > symbols, bold/italic/underline, bullets, numbering of lists, tables, pointing to URL's and, why not, limited attachments > (with a limitation of e.g. 100 kB or so). Because both HTML and/or attachments allow for viruses to be sent through the list, even ones that only require you to view the email. That's one of the reasons for the success of this list. Jimmy From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 28 11:36:02 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Thu Apr 28 11:36:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050428183602.1244.qmail@web51002.mail.yahoo.com> Are we talking about the same Yahoo? I belong to several lists on Yahoo, and have never experienced any of the problems mentioned. In fact, I get the Rockhounds postings through my Yahoo mail account, and see now difference between Rockhounds and the Yahoo lists. Tracking is something else again. I have no way of knowing if I'm being tracked, nor do I particularly care. Jim Daly --- Lanny wrote: > I > really hate Yahoo > and have to click through the ads and let's not spend the rest of our lives > clicking on > "continue to message" buttons to get away from the > ads, and have to log > in, periodically supply our password or log in again > just because Yahoo > wants us to in the middle of a session and suffer > through all the rest > of their administration. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From rik.dillen at skynet.be Thu Apr 28 11:56:17 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Thu Apr 28 11:56:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Someone taking over Rockhounds@drizzle ? In-Reply-To: <001701c54c20$d4fe7ec0$6901a8c0@LOSJKUOLT2> Message-ID: <200504281856.j3SIuH5P023488@outmx015.isp.belgacom.be> -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy Kuo Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 8:34 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Someone taking over Rockhounds@drizzle ? > BTW concerning HTML vs. plain text I have an opinion that is a bit[Rik Dillen] different from others : I vote in favour of HTML. We live in 2005, and the technological means allow this without any problem.[Rik Dillen] There are many advantages : it's not only a question of being able to present a messages in a nicer way, but also to use colour to emphasize some part of the text, symbols, bold/italic/underline, bullets, numbering of lists, tables, pointing to URL's and, why not, limited attachments (with a limitation of e.g. 100 kB or so). Because both HTML and/or attachments allow for viruses to be sent through[Rik Dillen] the list, even ones that only require you to view the email.[Rik Dillen] That's one of the reasons for the success of this list. [Rik Dillen] I understand your point of view, Jimmy, but that problem can be avoided in many other ways : I subscribed to a central virus-and-other problems avoiding server, installed (and maintain) a firewall + virusscanner, and since I have this computer (5 months now) I did not see ANY virus or virus-like species. Life is always full of decisions between fun and a limited risk... The risk should be minimised without decreasing fun and freedom. Greetings, Rik Dillen From jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com Thu Apr 28 12:26:17 2005 From: jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com (Jeanne Rhodes Moen) Date: Thu Apr 28 12:26:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Someone taking over Rockhounds@drizzle ? In-Reply-To: <200504281856.j3SIuH5P023488@outmx015.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: Depending on how much work I'd have to do...my provider includes a free, basic mailing list function and they have a built in antivirus system. It allows html and attachements. It only allows posting from members, but has few other buzzes and whistles. If you need something temporary set up, it would be no problem to use my domain, jeanniusdesigns.com, to set up a basic rockhounds list. But as far as I know, it doesn't have anything like digest functions or archives.....just basic subscribe, unsub and send mails. I'll look into it more....let me know what you all think. Jeanne http://www.jeanniusdesigns.com On 4/28/05 8:56 PM, "Rik Dillen" wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy Kuo > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 8:34 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Someone taking over Rockhounds@drizzle ? > >> BTW concerning HTML vs. plain text I have an opinion that is a bit[Rik >> Dillen] different from others : I vote in > favour of HTML. We live in 2005, and the technological means allow this > without any problem.[Rik Dillen] There are many > advantages : it's not only a question of being able to present a messages in a > nicer way, but also to use colour to > emphasize some part of the text, symbols, bold/italic/underline, bullets, > numbering of lists, tables, pointing to URL's > and, why not, limited attachments (with a limitation of e.g. 100 kB or so). > > Because both HTML and/or attachments allow for viruses to be sent through[Rik > Dillen] the list, even ones that only > require you to view the email.[Rik Dillen] That's one of the reasons for the > success of this list. > > [Rik Dillen] I understand your point of view, Jimmy, but that problem can be > avoided in many other ways : I subscribed > to a central virus-and-other problems avoiding server, installed (and > maintain) a firewall + virusscanner, and since I > have this computer (5 months now) I did not see ANY virus or virus-like > species. Life is always full of decisions > between fun and a limited risk... The risk should be minimised without > decreasing fun and freedom. > > Greetings, > > Rik Dillen > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com Thu Apr 28 12:36:03 2005 From: jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com (Jeanne Rhodes Moen) Date: Thu Apr 28 12:36:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Someone taking over Rockhounds@drizzle ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I found the settings for the free mailing list with my host: and it does have all kinds of settings including digests, archived, block archives, prefix, guard archive, subscription confirmation, list subscribers for remote admin, message moderation, editable by admin, rejection of disallowed addresses, unknown addresses and so on.. Doesn't cost me anything extra to set it up etc....and I've got lots of space if we want to put up archives or something. Jeanne From jbf at jbfminerals.com Thu Apr 28 12:44:57 2005 From: jbf at jbfminerals.com (Jeff Fast) Date: Thu Apr 28 12:45:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free Sunstone Dig at Spectrum Mine References: Message-ID: <004501c54c2a$c2160e90$171b0944@Dell2004> Aaron, Could you post a quick summary of what work is involved in maintaining the list? How many hours a day or week do you spend and what exactly are you doing, primarily. It's hard to talk about taking it over without knowing what is involved. Jeff Fast From tam2819 at cox.net Thu Apr 28 05:44:48 2005 From: tam2819 at cox.net (T.A.Masters) Date: Thu Apr 28 12:47:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Someone taking over Rockhounds@drizzle ? References: Message-ID: <4270DAC0.4070208@cox.net> Jeanne, What a great offer. I hope they take you up on this. Terrie From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Apr 28 12:50:15 2005 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Thu Apr 28 12:51:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Someone taking over Rockhounds@drizzle ? References: <4270DAC0.4070208@cox.net> Message-ID: <017d01c54c2b$87bf19c0$12b4010a@warren> FYI - Drizzle will continue the list at $15/month OR $135 per year. Julie From tam2819 at cox.net Thu Apr 28 05:49:18 2005 From: tam2819 at cox.net (T.A.Masters) Date: Thu Apr 28 12:52:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Someone taking over Rockhounds@drizzle ? References: <200504281819.j3SIJWDb006402@outmx002.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: <4270DBCE.8070005@cox.net> Rik, I too vote for HTML. To avoid virus stuff get a router or a Mac. Terrie From jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com Thu Apr 28 12:54:59 2005 From: jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com (Jeanne Rhodes Moen) Date: Thu Apr 28 12:55:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Someone taking over Rockhounds@drizzle ? In-Reply-To: <017d01c54c2b$87bf19c0$12b4010a@warren> Message-ID: Doesn't cost me anything extra to do it via my provider. Included in my regular fees. jeanne On 4/28/05 9:50 PM, "Julie Siebel" wrote: > FYI - Drizzle will continue the list at $15/month OR $135 per year. > > Julie > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca Thu Apr 28 13:09:12 2005 From: kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca (Kay Davis) Date: Thu Apr 28 13:09:16 2005 Subject: HTML vs Text was -> [Rockhounds] Someone taking over Rockhounds@drizzle ? In-Reply-To: <200504281856.j3SIuH5P023488@outmx015.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: <200504282009.j3SK9DBm014596@cti06.citenet.net> I Know I am a luddite however living up on a mountain here cable service won't happen and Bell Canada is saying we might get DSL in 2009 I much prefer Text to save on Bandwidth. Also there are people who work places (Like me) where HTML email is deliberately disabled for security reasons, so we live in a text email world. Kay From naturesemp at earthlink.net Thu Apr 28 13:11:47 2005 From: naturesemp at earthlink.net (Nature's Emporium) Date: Thu Apr 28 13:11:59 2005 Subject: HTML vs Text was -> [Rockhounds] Someone taking over Rockhounds@drizzle ? Message-ID: <42714383.2020509@earthlink.net> With so many people on dialup or the international people text messages only would really help Gloria From jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com Thu Apr 28 13:19:29 2005 From: jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com (Jeanne Rhodes Moen) Date: Thu Apr 28 13:20:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Enough already......was:someone to take over.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I set this up at my site....use it if you want to Mail list rockhounds@jeanniusdesigns.com Help address rockhounds-help@jeanniusdesigns.com Subscription address rockhounds-subscribe@jeanniusdesigns.com Unsubscription address rockhounds-unsubscribe@jeanniusdesigns.com May have to work out the bugs and figure out where it keeps the archives etc. Will set up a digest option as well when I get a few minutes to figure it out. Jeanne http://www.jeanniusdesigns.com From nmartin at bbn.com Thu Apr 28 13:20:27 2005 From: nmartin at bbn.com (Nathan C. Martin II) Date: Thu Apr 28 13:20:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Someone taking over Rockhounds@drizzle ? In-Reply-To: <200504281856.j3SIuH5P023488@outmx015.isp.belgacom.be> References: <001701c54c20$d4fe7ec0$6901a8c0@LOSJKUOLT2> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20050428160938.01fca400@po2.bbn.com> As we discuss the future of the list we should recognize that not everyone has the financial or technical resources to change their server, install & maintain a firewall or buy a new computer (I believe someone just suggested that we all get Macs) just to remain on the list. I think plain text has served us pretty well on this list. It reminds me of the old adage - If it ain't broken, don't fix it..... The value of this list to me is in the ideas and information that are exchanged. That can be done quite nicely with words and then using references to websites with graphics for those interested in further information. Just my thoughts Nate Martin At 02:56 PM 4/28/2005, you wrote: >-----Original Message----- >From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy Kuo >Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 8:34 PM >To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Someone taking over Rockhounds@drizzle ? > > > BTW concerning HTML vs. plain text I have an opinion that is a bit[Rik > Dillen] different from others : I vote in >favour of HTML. We live in 2005, and the technological means allow this >without any problem.[Rik Dillen] There are many >advantages : it's not only a question of being able to present a messages >in a nicer way, but also to use colour to >emphasize some part of the text, symbols, bold/italic/underline, bullets, >numbering of lists, tables, pointing to URL's >and, why not, limited attachments (with a limitation of e.g. 100 kB or so). > >Because both HTML and/or attachments allow for viruses to be sent >through[Rik Dillen] the list, even ones that only >require you to view the email.[Rik Dillen] That's one of the reasons for >the success of this list. > >[Rik Dillen] I understand your point of view, Jimmy, but that problem can >be avoided in many other ways : I subscribed >to a central virus-and-other problems avoiding server, installed (and >maintain) a firewall + virusscanner, and since I >have this computer (5 months now) I did not see ANY virus or virus-like >species. Life is always full of decisions >between fun and a limited risk... The risk should be minimised without >decreasing fun and freedom. > >Greetings, > >Rik Dillen > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Apr 28 13:23:15 2005 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Thu Apr 28 13:24:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Enough already......was:someone to take over.... References: Message-ID: <01a501c54c30$21605630$12b4010a@warren> lolol - very funny! "Enough already!" was exactly what I was thinking! Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanne Rhodes Moen" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 1:19 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Enough already......was:someone to take over.... >I set this up at my site....use it if you want to > > > Mail list rockhounds@jeanniusdesigns.com > Help address rockhounds-help@jeanniusdesigns.com > Subscription address rockhounds-subscribe@jeanniusdesigns.com > Unsubscription address rockhounds-unsubscribe@jeanniusdesigns.com > > May have to work out the bugs and figure out where it keeps the archives > etc. Will set up a digest option as well when I get a few minutes to > figure > it out. > > Jeanne > http://www.jeanniusdesigns.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com Thu Apr 28 13:32:03 2005 From: jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com (Jeanne Rhodes Moen) Date: Thu Apr 28 13:32:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Enough already......was:someone to take over.... In-Reply-To: <01a501c54c30$21605630$12b4010a@warren> Message-ID: As I said, it's up to you guys...I set one up...if you want to receive txt only, I think you can set your mail program to ignore html, you can also set it to only download the first x number of k on any message on the first attempt, meaning you won't have to download images if you don't want to! My provider has a virus filter built in...don't know how good it is...but I don't have a virus problem..then again...I also use a mac! :) I can also set up a subdomain on my site rockhounds.jeanniusdesigns.com for eventual info/archives...no big deal. The offer is there if you want it. Jeanne On 4/28/05 10:23 PM, "Julie Siebel" wrote: > lolol - very funny! > > "Enough already!" was exactly what I was thinking! > > Julie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeanne Rhodes Moen" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 1:19 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Enough already......was:someone to take over.... > > >> I set this up at my site....use it if you want to >> >> >> Mail list rockhounds@jeanniusdesigns.com >> Help address rockhounds-help@jeanniusdesigns.com >> Subscription address rockhounds-subscribe@jeanniusdesigns.com >> Unsubscription address rockhounds-unsubscribe@jeanniusdesigns.com >> >> May have to work out the bugs and figure out where it keeps the archives >> etc. Will set up a digest option as well when I get a few minutes to >> figure >> it out. >> >> Jeanne >> http://www.jeanniusdesigns.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockcurrier at cs.com Thu Apr 28 13:45:36 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Thu Apr 28 13:41:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] The future of the Rockhounds list. References: <200504281819.j3SIJsda004609@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <01d701c54c33$3bbf6810$2eeaa5d8@rock5> Dear Aaron, Thanks for your efforts. Ill buy you some ammunition for your target practice if you will continue. Yes, I know that won't do. As someone noted, life moves on. As we learn new things and our sophistication grows our interest change as well. I find as I get older that I have less patience trying to explain the basic facts of life and the hobby to beginners although I regularly chastise myself for becoming a crotchety old man who should put more effort into encouraging beginners. The problem is that we are all mostly interested in minerals and things geological and not so much interested in running rockhound lists or gem and mineral societies which is a related problem encountered by most societies and clubs. I hope someone will take it over. Doing rockhounging/minerals is a lot of fun, running a rockhound list I would imagine, after a while, would not be so much fun. Sort of like that old joke about the first prize being a one week paid vacation in Philladelphia and the second prize being a two week paid vacation in Philladelphia. A number of us are worried a lot about mindat and what might happen to it. It has crashed at least once I know about and some of the data has been lost, thankfully not a lot. They have a pretty good place where members can post messages to each other but the list is becoming really important to a lot of professionals and armatures. The guy who runs it want to continue it as free to everyone, but the costs of maintaining the hardware as it should be maintained is not trivial and to keep it running in a healthy fashion means that those costs must be covered and the logical people to pay for them are those that are using the site. I kind of doubt that our rockhound list users would be willing to pay enough to really cover the expenses of what a skilled administrator like yourself are worth (including your time), but you might ask. How many people out there would be wiling to pay $20 per year for membership in the group? How many $50 or $100??? Rock From tangojuli at yahoo.com Thu Apr 28 15:31:11 2005 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Thu Apr 28 15:31:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] a vote for continuance In-Reply-To: <200504281819.j3SIJsdZ004609@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20050428223111.87833.qmail@web60805.mail.yahoo.com> I was reeling after I got the email from Aaron on the digest last nite. I've learned so much in the couple years on the list. (Sad a commentary about my life perhaps) I look forward to my digest every evening, and relish the information and dialogues. Altho I've only met a couple people on the list, I feel like I know dozens of people around the world, their personalities come across after so much contact. I know what's going on with Kiluaea, the club in Amsterdam, collecting in Botswana, the opal in Virgin Valley, that lapidaries outnumber mineralogists, there ARE minerals in Indiana, and that corundum isn't so bad afterall :) I look forward to Rock's posts on his world travels, Pete M, Alan G, morningstar, Kreigh, Axel and other's educational discussions about the vagaries of mineral X or the esoterica of fluorescence wavelengths and computer programs. Moving the list to Yahoo would very likely diminish the commeraderie and sense of community. There are some unwritten rules that we kind of pick up after a time (hopefully :) creating a certain dynamic that might not survive moving to yahoo or the infusion of a lot of others--something someone else pointed out today. Since this community has great value to me, I'd gladly contribute to upkeep. I've volunteered off list to Aaron, that if no one else came forward, that I'd do what I could to help once I navigate my next move this summer. But I'm also willing to donate to future efforts if that will keep the list alive. This list is better than most magazine subscriptions! Thanks Aaron for your contribution to keeping the community alive and for your own contributions to the discussions in view of your grad school commitments! Those of you considering taking over the list, I hope you do so and I'll volunteer to assist you however I can later this summer. Fondly, tina aka tangojuli@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Apr 28 15:51:06 2005 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Thu Apr 28 15:52:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] a vote for continuance References: <20050428223111.87833.qmail@web60805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01d701c54c44$cb4c27a0$12b4010a@warren> There have been a couple of people who have either written the list or me personally offering monetary contributions to keep the list at Drizzle (I think I'm dividing that 135 by five so far...lol). That would be an easy "port" and I or Aaron or SOMEONE could show the "time" volunteers what is required to maintain a list. There has also been the most generous offer of Jeanne to host the list on her site...which has more features, but likely (from my experience) wouldn't allow us to *import* the existing logs, though it will maintain logs of it's own. For those who are concerned about HTML vs. Text, many listmangement software apps allow each user to choose which s/he'd prefer (doesn't always work so swell, but does in many cases...) Regarding virii, the biggest problem I have noticed is when a list includes "unsubscribe" info at the bottom of each post that is SPECIFIC TO THE USER. If someone gets a virus that trolls all the addresses in emails in their address book, it can/will unsubscribe OTHER users simply by trying to go to this address. In some list software you can adjust the info so a double "unsubscribe" is needed - the person has to actually click something in a confirmation e-mail to unsubscribe. This, unfortunately, means that in some cases people will STILL be unsubscribed if they are infected. (lol - but then again, I guess that is the LEAST of their problems...) I have no problem with Jeanne's, provided users may specify no HTML or attachments, as some software allows you to do. I *do* have a problem with Yahoo, personally, but most of those issues have been covered, so I won't go into it here. If you guys want to keep Drizzle, then I can "manage the management" if that makes sense... (I just read this to John, and he tells me he will manage if I walk him through it...and then *I* get to manage *him*! Hey, I just own our company - he's the art director - lol) At this point, I think we're down to $27 per donation...John and I have joked about doing an ebay auction or auctions where every one at drizzle donates a rock...really when you think about it, not a bad idea! lol Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "tango juli" To: Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 3:31 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] a vote for continuance >I was reeling after I got the email from Aaron on the > digest last nite. > > I've learned so much in the couple years on the list. > (Sad a commentary about my life perhaps) I look > forward to my digest every evening, and relish the > information and dialogues. Altho I've only met a > couple people on the list, I feel like I know dozens > of people around the world, their personalities come > across after so much contact. I know what's going on > with Kiluaea, the club in Amsterdam, collecting in > Botswana, the opal in Virgin Valley, that lapidaries > outnumber mineralogists, there ARE minerals in > Indiana, and that corundum isn't so bad afterall :) > > I look forward to Rock's posts on his world travels, > Pete M, Alan G, morningstar, Kreigh, Axel and other's > educational discussions about the vagaries of mineral > X or the esoterica of fluorescence wavelengths and > computer programs. > > Moving the list to Yahoo would very likely diminish > the commeraderie and sense of community. There are > some unwritten rules that we kind of pick up after a > time (hopefully :) creating a certain dynamic that > might not survive moving to yahoo or the infusion of a > lot of others--something someone else pointed out > today. > > Since this community has great value to me, I'd gladly > contribute to upkeep. I've volunteered off list to > Aaron, that if no one else came forward, that I'd do > what I could to help once I navigate my next move this > summer. But I'm also willing to donate to future > efforts if that will keep the list alive. This list > is better than most magazine subscriptions! > > Thanks Aaron for your contribution to keeping the > community alive and for your own contributions to the > discussions in view of your grad school commitments! > > Those of you considering taking over the list, I hope > you do so and I'll volunteer to assist you however I > can later this summer. > Fondly, > tina > aka > tangojuli@yahoo.com > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From corundogs at charter.net Thu Apr 28 16:08:09 2005 From: corundogs at charter.net (CorunDogs) Date: Thu Apr 28 16:08:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] a vote for continuance - EBAY AUCTION!!!! References: <20050428223111.87833.qmail@web60805.mail.yahoo.com> <01d701c54c44$cb4c27a0$12b4010a@warren> Message-ID: <000f01c54c47$267332c0$e6b27144@dit03r92qai5fx> I don't post often but I fully agree that this list and the members on it need to remain a community. I personally like the very bottom idea - each one of us donate a rock for an Ebay auction. I would be HONORED to host the auction. You can all send your rocks to me, I can take the pictures, do the listings and collect the money. And I can send the funds through PayPal to whoever is maintaining the list. I would of course provide a complete accounting of all funds received. Or you can take your own pictures, email them to me with a description, I can make the listing and then when it sells and I get the funds, I can send you an address as to where to send it. That would work as well. Maybe even better :-) This could be done on a yearly basis for the fees. And if enough isn't obtained through the auction, then members can donate a few bucks as their pocket books or feelings warrant. I don't know that if others don't like that idea and feel like they are then 'paying for a service' - but really, isn't this a 'service' that we all enjoy and learn from? If not on a regular basis, often enough to make most of us feel that we want to remain a community of common interest people from around the world that would not otherwise have the opportunity to communicate. I know I have learned alot, received alot more and from the poster of this original thread, maybe even contributed to it?!?!?! <> hehehehe!!!! Not sure if that was actually intended towards me, but I like to think so :-) Anyway, there is my two cents - for what it is worth!! Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, Nebraska Dedicated to helping abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a person.....to a Rescue Dog, you are the World!!! www.nationwidebostonrescue.org www.corunduminium.com - Ask me about The Corundum Project ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie Siebel" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 5:51 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] a vote for continuance There have been a couple of people who have either written the list or me personally offering monetary contributions to keep the list at Drizzle (I think I'm dividing that 135 by five so far...lol). That would be an easy "port" and I or Aaron or SOMEONE could show the "time" volunteers what is required to maintain a list. There has also been the most generous offer of Jeanne to host the list on her site...which has more features, but likely (from my experience) wouldn't allow us to *import* the existing logs, though it will maintain logs of it's own. For those who are concerned about HTML vs. Text, many listmangement software apps allow each user to choose which s/he'd prefer (doesn't always work so swell, but does in many cases...) Regarding virii, the biggest problem I have noticed is when a list includes "unsubscribe" info at the bottom of each post that is SPECIFIC TO THE USER. If someone gets a virus that trolls all the addresses in emails in their address book, it can/will unsubscribe OTHER users simply by trying to go to this address. In some list software you can adjust the info so a double "unsubscribe" is needed - the person has to actually click something in a confirmation e-mail to unsubscribe. This, unfortunately, means that in some cases people will STILL be unsubscribed if they are infected. (lol - but then again, I guess that is the LEAST of their problems...) I have no problem with Jeanne's, provided users may specify no HTML or attachments, as some software allows you to do. I *do* have a problem with Yahoo, personally, but most of those issues have been covered, so I won't go into it here. If you guys want to keep Drizzle, then I can "manage the management" if that makes sense... (I just read this to John, and he tells me he will manage if I walk him through it...and then *I* get to manage *him*! Hey, I just own our company - he's the art director - lol) At this point, I think we're down to $27 per donation...John and I have joked about doing an ebay auction or auctions where every one at drizzle donates a rock...really when you think about it, not a bad idea! lol Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "tango juli" To: Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 3:31 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] a vote for continuance >I was reeling after I got the email from Aaron on the > digest last nite. > > I've learned so much in the couple years on the list. > (Sad a commentary about my life perhaps) I look > forward to my digest every evening, and relish the > information and dialogues. Altho I've only met a > couple people on the list, I feel like I know dozens > of people around the world, their personalities come > across after so much contact. I know what's going on > with Kiluaea, the club in Amsterdam, collecting in > Botswana, the opal in Virgin Valley, that lapidaries > outnumber mineralogists, there ARE minerals in > Indiana, and that corundum isn't so bad afterall :) > > I look forward to Rock's posts on his world travels, > Pete M, Alan G, morningstar, Kreigh, Axel and other's > educational discussions about the vagaries of mineral > X or the esoterica of fluorescence wavelengths and > computer programs. > > Moving the list to Yahoo would very likely diminish > the commeraderie and sense of community. There are > some unwritten rules that we kind of pick up after a > time (hopefully :) creating a certain dynamic that > might not survive moving to yahoo or the infusion of a > lot of others--something someone else pointed out > today. > > Since this community has great value to me, I'd gladly > contribute to upkeep. I've volunteered off list to > Aaron, that if no one else came forward, that I'd do > what I could to help once I navigate my next move this > summer. But I'm also willing to donate to future > efforts if that will keep the list alive. This list > is better than most magazine subscriptions! > > Thanks Aaron for your contribution to keeping the > community alive and for your own contributions to the > discussions in view of your grad school commitments! > > Those of you considering taking over the list, I hope > you do so and I'll volunteer to assist you however I > can later this summer. > Fondly, > tina > aka > tangojuli@yahoo.com > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Apr 28 19:36:53 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Apr 28 19:33:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Changing the list format from text only {was: Someone taking over Rockhounds@drizzle ?} References: <200504281856.j3SIuH5P023488@outmx015.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: <42719D04.150E@Tomaszewski.net> Rik, I have to agree with Jimmy (and Aaron) on the no attachments, text only, format for the list because it makes the list immune to ALL viri, and most malware (there still could be a malicious link to click on, or I would have said all here too). First, while you (and a some others on the list) have reasonably secure systems and habits, many on the list do not. Second, some on this list use mail systems that do not support (or badly support) HTML -- *nix systems and webtv, for example. Text only is really the only format common to the entire list. Third, many on the list are still using slow dial-up connections, often because it is the only internet connection option open to their (often rural or remote) location. HTML and attachments are very unfriendly to this environment. HTML and attachments are also unfriendly to those in countries where the ISPs charge by bytes transferred; this is a global list. I think any advantages to HTML or attachments are strongly outweighed by the disadvantages such a change would introduce. If you need to share a picture or file, it is much better to do it as a link or an offlist mailing to the limited number of folks who really are interested. BTW, even with the best virus protection available, there are always new viri, and varients of old viri, being introduced into the internet. In my mundane job I am the email 'postmaster' for a large global corporate ISP; we support thousands of domains and handle millions of emails daily. We scan every email with AV software from at least two different vendors, and our pattern files are never more than an hour out of date. Some of the new viri infect if you even preview them (in HTML) -- nothing to click on. I see a new virus once a day on average that more than half the antivirus companies do not protect against at the time it was received. At least once a month I see a new virus that none of the antivirus companies protect against at the time it was received. One day within the past week I found six new viri, two detected by no AV company, two detected by only one company, and two detected by only three companies. I strongly think the list should retain its text only (no attachments) format. It is one of the reasons why it is the biggest and best Rockhounds List on the Internet, it is common to everyone online -- and it is safe. Kreigh Rik Dillen wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy Kuo > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 8:34 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Someone taking over Rockhounds@drizzle ? > > > BTW concerning HTML vs. plain text I have an opinion that is a bit[Rik Dillen] different from others : I vote in > favour of HTML. We live in 2005, and the technological means allow this without any problem.[Rik Dillen] There are many > advantages : it's not only a question of being able to present a messages in a nicer way, but also to use colour to > emphasize some part of the text, symbols, bold/italic/underline, bullets, numbering of lists, tables, pointing to URL's > and, why not, limited attachments (with a limitation of e.g. 100 kB or so). > > Because both HTML and/or attachments allow for viruses to be sent through[Rik Dillen] the list, even ones that only > require you to view the email.[Rik Dillen] That's one of the reasons for the success of this list. > > [Rik Dillen] I understand your point of view, Jimmy, but that problem can be avoided in many other ways : I subscribed > to a central virus-and-other problems avoiding server, installed (and maintain) a firewall + virusscanner, and since I > have this computer (5 months now) I did not see ANY virus or virus-like species. Life is always full of decisions > between fun and a limited risk... The risk should be minimised without decreasing fun and freedom. > > Greetings, > > Rik Dillen From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Apr 28 20:00:36 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Apr 28 19:57:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Someone taking over Rockhounds@drizzle ? References: Message-ID: <4271A28F.3B92@Tomaszewski.net> Jeanne Rhodes Moen wrote: > > Doesn't cost me anything extra to do it via my provider. Included in my > regular fees. > > jeanne > > On 4/28/05 9:50 PM, "Julie Siebel" wrote: > > > FYI - Drizzle will continue the list at $15/month OR $135 per year. > > > > Julie > > The big cost of moving to a different address is that everyone must re-subscribe (so you have opt-in confirmation on file), and change/update their address book and anti-spam solutions at a minimum. Retaining the same list address (with a new admin) has no impact to everyone on the list and would be much preferred. From roughrock at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 21:31:09 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Thu Apr 28 21:31:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] life on Titan? Message-ID: Even though the day was dominated by bad news, eg, Aaron is going to retire from Rockhounds @ Drizzle list, a few scientist published other news. ;-} This news release indicates there might be high octane life on Titan. http://www.sci-tech-today.com/story.xhtml?story_id=33807 And an Ivory Billed woodpecker was spotted in Arkansas. You'll have to google it since I didn't save the URL. Grant Johnston, Chico, CA From kahako at verizon.net Thu Apr 28 21:48:43 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Apr 28 21:48:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] a vote for continuance In-Reply-To: <01d701c54c44$cb4c27a0$12b4010a@warren> References: <20050428223111.87833.qmail@web60805.mail.yahoo.com> <01d701c54c44$cb4c27a0$12b4010a@warren> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050428170717.0228b668@incoming.verizon.net> I'm glad that Aaron has agreed to stay on until summer to give us some time to sort things out. I believe at some point we should have a vote. Maybe Aaron would be willing to preside over that? I think that is sort of what he suggested in his announcement. Is that right Aaron? You've done such a great job, I expect we all would trust your judgement to make the best decision based on our input, if you're willing to take on that task as a parting gesture. BTW let me add to other's praise: bravo, clap, clap, clap, cheer!!!! My own feelings at this point: 1. Thank you Jeanne for offering to host the list on your site. 2. I don't like changing to Yahoo, nor HTML. 3. I think it would be easier and best to stay at drizzle. 4. I favor Julie's offer (with John's help) to manage the list on drizzle. 5. The yearly fee for drizzle should be paid by donations from participants. Although it would be most fair to have everyone contribute, that would be too difficult to manage. The idea of an eBay auction proposed by Brenda (CorunDogs) and (jokingly) by Julie & John, is OK if people want to do it, but I think it's a lot of trouble and not worth it considering the amount of money is only $135 a year. I favor a casual approach (fits the personality of this list) where people send whatever donation they feel they can afford---sort of like donating to Public Radio---and whenever the administrator finds that more funds are needed, a request will be posted (If we were talking about thousands of dollars there might be a reason for closer monitoring). Aloha, Kitty >If you guys want to keep Drizzle, then I can "manage the management" if >that makes sense... > >(I just read this to John, and he tells me he will manage if I walk him >through it...and then *I* get to manage *him*! Hey, I just own our company >- he's the art director - lol) > >At this point, I think we're down to $27 per donation...John and I have >joked about doing an ebay auction or auctions where every one at drizzle >donates a rock...really when you think about it, not a bad idea! lol > >Julie From bova at mindspring.com Thu Apr 28 22:59:49 2005 From: bova at mindspring.com (Carol J. Bova) Date: Thu Apr 28 22:54:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle In-Reply-To: <20050428183602.1244.qmail@web51002.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi All, Just to throw another possibility into the mix, I wanted to share that I wrote to Aaron Wednesday to check out a couple of points, and let him know that I have the time and interest. Since then, I've confirmed with my computer wizard that The Eclectic Lapidary already has mailing list capability, and we can host the list, including archives. We can provide online indexing and search options for the archives, and mask users' email to prevent spammers from harvesting them. If Aaron can provide the list of members, we can resub everyone automatically, and send out a message for automatic unsubs if anyone wanted to opt out. We can set up admin privileges so others can be involved as well. And there would be no cost to the group. It would be a free community service of the 'zine. No matter which way it goes, someone will take over, and the Rockhounds list will survive. *s* Carol Carol J. Bova The Eclectic Lapidary http://www.eclecticlapidary.com From erongo at mweb.co.za Fri Apr 29 03:25:48 2005 From: erongo at mweb.co.za (Willie Steyn) Date: Fri Apr 29 03:25:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] life on Titan? References: Message-ID: <001801c54ca5$d2b6b030$8e91fea9@Namibiaminerals> "Hamba gathle Madot" meaning ....walk and go with peace big man...one of our native languages. Thanks for everything Aaron Willem jnr. From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Fri Apr 29 06:48:45 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Fri Apr 29 06:36:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Aaron etc. and Titan and... References: Message-ID: <004801c54cc2$2e7ae6e0$e8a3490c@pete> It sounds like we have several viable options for continuing the list--great! Thanks to everyone who's offered to help, and of course again to Aaron for all he's done in the past. Did anyone notice, at the bottom of the page with that Titan story, there's also one about geophysicists being able to interpret details of the magma plume underneath Yellowstone--how deep it is, how wide, what direction it extends into the mantle, and even how fast the material in it is moving upward. Cool! See it at the bottom of the same url that Grant gave. And, aside from the Ivory Bill (that's neat), there was a story in the paper yesterday (haven't looked for it on line) about how UCLA scientists have reported definitely that they have made a device that creates fusion of deuterium atoms to produce helium + neutrons, using a pyroelectric crystal at room temperature in deuterium gas. I think that's super fascinating! We have light snow and Denver this morning! best regards to all, Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Johnston" To: Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 10:31 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] life on Titan? > http://www.sci-tech-today.com/story.xhtml?story_id=33807 > From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 29 06:39:40 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Fri Apr 29 06:39:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050429133940.61395.qmail@web51004.mail.yahoo.com> This sounds like the ideal solution. I can't see any possible objection. I vote to go with this option. Thanks Carol. Jim Daly --- "Carol J. Bova" wrote: > Hi All, > Just to throw another possibility into the mix, I > wanted to share that > I wrote to Aaron Wednesday to check out a couple of > points, and let him > know that I have the time and interest. Since then, > I've confirmed with > my computer wizard that The Eclectic Lapidary > already has mailing list > capability, and we can host the list, including > archives. We can > provide online indexing and search options for the > archives, and mask > users' email to prevent spammers from harvesting > them. > > If Aaron can provide the list of members, we can > resub everyone > automatically, and send out a message for automatic > unsubs if anyone > wanted to opt out. We can set up admin privileges so > others can be > involved as well. And there would be no cost to the > group. It would be > a free community service of the 'zine. > > No matter which way it goes, someone will take over, > and the Rockhounds > list will survive. *s* > Carol > > Carol J. Bova > The Eclectic Lapidary > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From kadok at infowest.com Fri Apr 29 07:04:53 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Fri Apr 29 07:04:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Changing the list format from text only {was:Someone taking over Rockhounds@drizzle ?} In-Reply-To: <42719D04.150E@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <20050429140456.12D8A7A953@delivery.infowest.com> I agree with Kreigh, 100% Margaret >Rik, >I have to agree with Jimmy (and Aaron) on the no attachments, text only, format for the list because it makes the list immune to ALL viri, and most malware (there still could be a malicious link to click on, or I would have said all here too). First, while you (and a some others on the list) have reasonably secure systems and habits, many on the list do not. Second, some on this list use mail systems that do not support (or badly support) HTML -- *nix systems and webtv, for example. Text only is really the only format common to the entire list. Third, many on the list are still using slow dial-up connections, often because it is the only internet connection option open to their (often rural or remote) location. HTML and attachments are very unfriendly to this environment. HTML and attachments are also unfriendly to those in countries where the ISPs charge by bytes transferred; this is a global list. I think any advantages to HTML or attachments are strongly outweighed by the disadvantages such a change would introduce. If you need to share a picture or file, it is much better to do it as a link or an offlist mailing to the limited number of folks who really are interested. BTW, even with the best virus protection available, there are always new viri, and varients of old viri, being introduced into the internet. In my mundane job I am the email 'postmaster' for a large global corporate ISP; we support thousands of domains and handle millions of emails daily. We scan every email with AV software from at least two different vendors, and our pattern files are never more than an hour out of date. Some of the new viri infect if you even preview them (in HTML) -- nothing to click on. I see a new virus once a day on average that more than half the antivirus companies do not protect against at the time it was received. At least once a month I see a new virus that none of the antivirus companies protect against at the time it was received. One day within the past week I found six new viri, two detected by no AV company, two detected by only one company, and two detected by only three companies. I strongly think the list should retain its text only (no attachments) format. It is one of the reasons why it is the biggest and best Rockhounds List on the Internet, it is common to everyone online -- and it is safe. Kreigh Rik Dillen wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy Kuo > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 8:34 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Someone taking over Rockhounds@drizzle ? > > > BTW concerning HTML vs. plain text I have an opinion that is a bit[Rik Dillen] different from others : I vote in > favour of HTML. We live in 2005, and the technological means allow this without any problem.[Rik Dillen] There are many > advantages : it's not only a question of being able to present a messages in a nicer way, but also to use colour to > emphasize some part of the text, symbols, bold/italic/underline, bullets, numbering of lists, tables, pointing to URL's > and, why not, limited attachments (with a limitation of e.g. 100 kB or so). > > Because both HTML and/or attachments allow for viruses to be sent through[Rik Dillen] the list, even ones that only > require you to view the email.[Rik Dillen] That's one of the reasons for the success of this list. > > [Rik Dillen] I understand your point of view, Jimmy, but that problem can be avoided in many other ways : I subscribed > to a central virus-and-other problems avoiding server, installed (and maintain) a firewall + virusscanner, and since I > have this computer (5 months now) I did not see ANY virus or virus-like species. Life is always full of decisions > between fun and a limited risk... The risk should be minimised without decreasing fun and freedom. > > Greetings, > > Rik Dillen _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kadok at infowest.com Fri Apr 29 07:15:48 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Fri Apr 29 07:15:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050429141550.1F4357A457@delivery.infowest.com> Cool! Those options sound great! I would love to have you doing it! (Not that I am trying to "put down" any of the others who have offered to help -- !) Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Carol J. Bova Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 11:00 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle Hi All, Just to throw another possibility into the mix, I wanted to share that I wrote to Aaron Wednesday to check out a couple of points, and let him know that I have the time and interest. Since then, I've confirmed with my computer wizard that The Eclectic Lapidary already has mailing list capability, and we can host the list, including archives. We can provide online indexing and search options for the archives, and mask users' email to prevent spammers from harvesting them. If Aaron can provide the list of members, we can resub everyone automatically, and send out a message for automatic unsubs if anyone wanted to opt out. We can set up admin privileges so others can be involved as well. And there would be no cost to the group. It would be a free community service of the 'zine. No matter which way it goes, someone will take over, and the Rockhounds list will survive. *s* Carol Carol J. Bova The Eclectic Lapidary http://www.eclecticlapidary.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From hkrocke at netscape.ca Fri Apr 29 07:43:22 2005 From: hkrocke at netscape.ca (hkrocke) Date: Fri Apr 29 07:43:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] a vote for continuance In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050428170717.0228b668@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <0961D260-B8BD-11D9-A44B-00306557E552@netscape.ca> I AGREE WITH AND SECOND EVERYTHING WRITTEN BELOW BY KITTY Hilmar __________________________ > I'm glad that Aaron has agreed to stay on until summer to give us some > time to sort things out. I believe at some point we should have a > vote. Maybe Aaron would be willing to preside over that? I think > that is sort of what he suggested in his announcement. > > Is that right Aaron? You've done such a great job, I expect we all > would trust your judgement to make the best decision based on our > input, if you're willing to take on that task as a parting gesture. > BTW let me add to other's praise: bravo, clap, clap, clap, cheer!!!! > > My own feelings at this point: > > 1. Thank you Jeanne for offering to host the list on your site. > > 2. I don't like changing to Yahoo, nor HTML. > > 3. I think it would be easier and best to stay at drizzle. > > 4. I favor Julie's offer (with John's help) to manage the list on > drizzle. > > 5. The yearly fee for drizzle should be paid by donations from > participants. Although it would be most fair to have everyone > contribute, that would be too difficult to manage. The idea of an > eBay auction proposed by Brenda (CorunDogs) and (jokingly) by Julie & > John, is OK if people want to do it, but I think it's a lot of trouble > and not worth it considering the amount of money is only $135 a year. > I favor a casual approach (fits the personality of this list) where > people send whatever donation they feel they can afford---sort of like > donating to Public Radio---and whenever the administrator finds that > more funds are needed, a request will be posted (If we were talking > about thousands of dollars there might be a reason for closer > monitoring). > > Aloha, Kitty > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- From albalmer at att.net Fri Apr 29 07:54:24 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Fri Apr 29 07:54:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Changing the list format from text only {was: Someone taking over Rockhounds@drizzle ?} In-Reply-To: <42719D04.150E@Tomaszewski.net> References: <200504281856.j3SIuH5P023488@outmx015.isp.belgacom.be> <42719D04.150E@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <42724AA0.30203@att.net> Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > Rik, > > I have to agree with Jimmy (and Aaron) on the no attachments, text only, > format for the list because it makes the list immune to ALL viri, and > most malware (there still could be a malicious link to click on, or I > would have said all here too). > > First, while you (and a some others on the list) have reasonably secure > systems and habits, many on the list do not. > > Second, some on this list use mail systems that do not support (or badly > support) HTML -- *nix systems and webtv, for example. Text only is > really the only format common to the entire list. > > Third, many on the list are still using slow dial-up connections, often > because it is the only internet connection option open to their (often > rural or remote) location. HTML and attachments are very unfriendly to > this environment. HTML and attachments are also unfriendly to those in > countries where the ISPs charge by bytes transferred; this is a global > list. > > I think any advantages to HTML or attachments are strongly outweighed by > the disadvantages such a change would introduce. If you need to share a > picture or file, it is much better to do it as a link or an offlist > mailing to the limited number of folks who really are interested. > > BTW, even with the best virus protection available, there are always new > viri, and varients of old viri, being introduced into the internet. In > my mundane job I am the email 'postmaster' for a large global corporate > ISP; we support thousands of domains and handle millions of emails > daily. We scan every email with AV software from at least two different > vendors, and our pattern files are never more than an hour out of date. > Some of the new viri infect if you even preview them (in HTML) -- > nothing to click on. I see a new virus once a day on average that more > than half the antivirus companies do not protect against at the time it > was received. At least once a month I see a new virus that none of the > antivirus companies protect against at the time it was received. One day > within the past week I found six new viri, two detected by no AV > company, two detected by only one company, and two detected by only > three companies. > > I strongly think the list should retain its text only (no attachments) > format. It is one of the reasons why it is the biggest and best > Rockhounds List on the Internet, it is common to everyone online -- and > it is safe. I agree wholeheartedly. There is no strong advantage to HTML, and many disadvantages. > Rik Dillen wrote: > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy Kuo >>Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 8:34 PM >>To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Someone taking over Rockhounds@drizzle ? >> >> >>>BTW concerning HTML vs. plain text I have an opinion that is a bit[Rik Dillen] different from others : I vote in >> >>favour of HTML. We live in 2005, and the technological means allow this without any problem.[Rik Dillen] There are many >>advantages : it's not only a question of being able to present a messages in a nicer way, but also to use colour to >>emphasize some part of the text, symbols, bold/italic/underline, bullets, numbering of lists, tables, pointing to URL's >>and, why not, limited attachments (with a limitation of e.g. 100 kB or so). >> >>Because both HTML and/or attachments allow for viruses to be sent through[Rik Dillen] the list, even ones that only >>require you to view the email.[Rik Dillen] That's one of the reasons for the success of this list. >> >>[Rik Dillen] I understand your point of view, Jimmy, but that problem can be avoided in many other ways : I subscribed >>to a central virus-and-other problems avoiding server, installed (and maintain) a firewall + virusscanner, and since I >>have this computer (5 months now) I did not see ANY virus or virus-like species. Life is always full of decisions >>between fun and a limited risk... The risk should be minimised without decreasing fun and freedom. >> From betdav97 at aol.com Fri Apr 29 07:55:40 2005 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Fri Apr 29 07:55:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] West North Carolina Collecting Message-ID: <8C71AE2A518A905-A4C-E716@mblk-d35.sysops.aol.com> Hi Group, A friend, Tom Hay of Mt. Mist, some of you may know him from Tucson, will be in northern Georgia, western North Carolina, and would like to know about collecting localities. He has been to Chunky Gal Mountain, but would like to visit other locales. Does anyone have any tips? Thanks, Dave Sunset Fossils & Minerals Morgantown, WV --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Fri Apr 29 08:07:02 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Fri Apr 29 08:07:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42724D96.3060706@att.net> Carol J. Bova wrote: > Hi All, > Just to throw another possibility into the mix, I wanted to share that I > wrote to Aaron Wednesday to check out a couple of points, and let him > know that I have the time and interest. Since then, I've confirmed with > my computer wizard that The Eclectic Lapidary already has mailing list > capability, and we can host the list, including archives. We can provide > online indexing and search options for the archives, and mask users' > email to prevent spammers from harvesting them. > > If Aaron can provide the list of members, we can resub everyone > automatically, and send out a message for automatic unsubs if anyone > wanted to opt out. We can set up admin privileges so others can be > involved as well. And there would be no cost to the group. It would be > a free community service of the 'zine. > > No matter which way it goes, someone will take over, and the Rockhounds > list will survive. *s* > Carol That's a great offer, Carol. In fact, you just inspired me to join the Eclectic Lapidary. Unfortunately, I find that you use PayPal, and I don't do PayPal. I've written your contact address to ask for an alternative. From nmartin at bbn.com Fri Apr 29 08:19:33 2005 From: nmartin at bbn.com (Nathan C. Martin II) Date: Fri Apr 29 08:19:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] West North Carolina Collecting In-Reply-To: <8C71AE2A518A905-A4C-E716@mblk-d35.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20050429111508.0204e160@po2.bbn.com> Although its not exactly northern Georgia, I just led a Boston Mineral Club field trip to Graves Mountain in Lincolnton, GA and had a great time. There is an open house at Graves Mountain scheduled for the weekend of 13 May. The Georgia Mineral society website has contact information for the caretaker at Graves Mountain. You should also check their past field trip locality pages and commercial site listings for ideas. Good hunting! Nate Martin Lexington, MA At 10:55 AM 4/29/2005, you wrote: > >Hi Group, > A friend, Tom Hay of Mt. Mist, some of you may know him from Tucson, will >be in northern Georgia, western North Carolina, and would like to know about >collecting localities. He has been to Chunky Gal Mountain, but would like to >visit other locales. Does anyone have any tips? >Thanks, >Dave >Sunset Fossils & Minerals >Morgantown, WV > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Dr. Nathan C. Martin Principal Scientist BBN Technologies Room 1/117, 50 Moulton Street, Cambridge, MA 02138 Phone: (617)873-3495 Office FAX: (617)873-2918 From corundogs at charter.net Fri Apr 29 08:20:13 2005 From: corundogs at charter.net (CorunDogs) Date: Fri Apr 29 08:20:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Anyone from Georgia? And question aboutpossiblecorundum in your own collections.... References: <005401c54a57$e47489a0$96bf8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> Message-ID: <005501c54cce$f1360370$e6b27144@dit03r92qai5fx> THANK YOU SO MUCH, Anita!! I had somehow missed this when it was posted :-( I will pass this along to Will and he can contact him - I assume that is ok (Will is my partner and he knows alot more about what is needed!!) I also want to take this opportunity to thank all of the others who have responded to me privately. And for passing this along to others who you thought might be of help. I think we have one person at least who is definitely willing to help out in whatever way they can and maybe this will be two!! As a side note - that wouldn't have been possible - or at least for me not to be able to contribute to finding them (which makes me feel like I am being useful to our Project work...hehe!) - without this list. I have also been in touch with Horst Windisch and he happens to volunteer for the museum where the World Record holding Corundum piece is displayed. Believe it or not, Will had never seen it - even through a photograph - and Horst and the museum curator took a picture of it for me. On top of that, he sent me copies of the information known about it. And if anyone has had the luck to have ever been in contact with Horst, you know what an amazing man he is and the amazing life he has lived - and he has shared some of his stories and experiences with me :-) Again, would NEVER have happened had I not been a member of this list. So, Aaron - I guess I owe you a great big THANK YOU for taking over 2 years ago and continuing to keep the list alive....which it sounds like everyone is very interested in finding a way to continue. Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, Nebraska Dedicated to helping abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a person.....to a Rescue Dog, you are the World!!! www.nationwidebostonrescue.org www.corunduminium.com - Ask me about The Corundum Project ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anita Westlake" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 7:02 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Anyone from Georgia? And question aboutpossiblecorundum in your own collections.... Brenda: For info on Georgia corundum, you may wish to contact Mr. Kim Cochran at 770-979-8331. He does not have email. Please respect his privacy, and only call him if you are Brenda! Anita D. Westlake -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of CorunDogs Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 9:53 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Anyone from Georgia? And question about possiblecorundum in your own collections.... HI THERE!! I know I have posted about my involvement in The Corundum Project in the past, so I am not going to go into it now :-) But if you would like to check out what it is all about or see some of the most beautiful rocks in all of the World (in my opinion of course....hehe), here is the website www.corunduminium.com However, I have a couple of questions.... Is there anyone here from Georgia? My partner (Will Heierman)and I are needing someone who can help us with the corundum locations in Georgia and possibly getting some material. And if this person is interested, being one of our Regional Correspondants who will keep us up-to-date on the going on's with the corundum in Georgia. You will be given credit on our website and possibly in other publications as well. Here is exactly how Will worded it Georgia: Seeking contacts. Historical research in local libraries and through conversation; Looking for corundum sites and representative material, mapping and rockhounding; Looking at private and museum collections; Specimen acquisition, photographic images. The other question I have is if anyone has any corundum specimens in their collection that they would like to possibly offer to me for sale?? I am still looking to add to my own personal collection....and of course, if there is something outstanding, for The Collection.....which our goal is to eventually find a permament home for in a Museum!!! And credit can also be kept with the specimen if that is important to you. If anyone is interested, Will and a couple of his friends from the North (was almost completed when I came on board) have put together a wonderful online publication in the Canadian Rockhound Geological Magazine- Winter/Spring 2005 Addition. It is incredibly well written - even my family and friends who know absolutely NOTHING about corundum have found it interesting and was that allowed them to learn alot about what I am doing and why I have become so passionate about it :-) http://www.canadianrockhound.ca/2005/01/index.html If you could contact me offlist at corundogs@charter.net I would really appreciate it. Of course, you could respond on list, but I am not sure if other members would be upset :-) THANKS!!!! Brenda LaCroix Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, Nebraska Dedicated to helping abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a person.....to a Rescue Dog, you are the World!!! www.nationwidebostonrescue.org www.corunduminium.com - Ask me about The Corundum Project --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From betdav97 at aol.com Fri Apr 29 08:58:24 2005 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Fri Apr 29 08:58:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] West North Carolina Collecting In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20050429111508.0204e160@po2.bbn.com> Message-ID: <8C71AEB68B5E2B6-764-E583@mblk-d39.sysops.aol.com> Hi Nate, Thanks for the reply, unfortunately, we had already discussed Graves Mountain, but it would a long drive from where he will be. I searched for the mineral club website, and forwarded the url to him. Thanks, Dave --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rik.dillen at skynet.be Fri Apr 29 10:22:08 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Fri Apr 29 10:22:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Changing the list format from text only {was:Someone taking over Rockhounds@drizzle ?} In-Reply-To: <42719D04.150E@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <200504291722.j3THM9lJ021886@outmx015.isp.belgacom.be> Hi Jimmy and Kreigh, I understand your points of view better now. Sorry for my too limited view on the (world-wide) situation. Any system has pros and cons, and I admit that in this case for a majority the cons are perhaps indeed more important than the pros. Greetings, Rik DILLEN -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kreigh Tomaszewski Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 4:37 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Changing the list format from text only {was:Someone taking over Rockhounds@drizzle ?} Rik, I have to agree with Jimmy (and Aaron) on the no attachments, text only, format for the list because it makes the list immune to ALL viri, and most malware (there still could be a malicious link to click on, or I would have said all here too). First, while you (and a some others on the list) have reasonably secure systems and habits, many on the list do not. Second, some on this list use mail systems that do not support (or badly support) HTML -- *nix systems and webtv, for example. Text only is really the only format common to the entire list. Third, many on the list are still using slow dial-up connections, often because it is the only internet connection option open to their (often rural or remote) location. HTML and attachments are very unfriendly to this environment. HTML and attachments are also unfriendly to those in countries where the ISPs charge by bytes transferred; this is a global list. I think any advantages to HTML or attachments are strongly outweighed by the disadvantages such a change would introduce. If you need to share a picture or file, it is much better to do it as a link or an offlist mailing to the limited number of folks who really are interested. BTW, even with the best virus protection available, there are always new viri, and varients of old viri, being introduced into the internet. In my mundane job I am the email 'postmaster' for a large global corporate ISP; we support thousands of domains and handle millions of emails daily. We scan every email with AV software from at least two different vendors, and our pattern files are never more than an hour out of date. Some of the new viri infect if you even preview them (in HTML) -- nothing to click on. I see a new virus once a day on average that more than half the antivirus companies do not protect against at the time it was received. At least once a month I see a new virus that none of the antivirus companies protect against at the time it was received. One day within the past week I found six new viri, two detected by no AV company, two detected by only one company, and two detected by only three companies. I strongly think the list should retain its text only (no attachments) format. It is one of the reasons why it is the biggest and best Rockhounds List on the Internet, it is common to everyone online -- and it is safe. Kreigh Rik Dillen wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy Kuo > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 8:34 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Someone taking over Rockhounds@drizzle ? > > > BTW concerning HTML vs. plain text I have an opinion that is a bit[Rik Dillen] different from others : I vote in > favour of HTML. We live in 2005, and the technological means allow this without any problem.[Rik Dillen] There are many > advantages : it's not only a question of being able to present a messages in a nicer way, but also to use colour to > emphasize some part of the text, symbols, bold/italic/underline, bullets, numbering of lists, tables, pointing to URL's > and, why not, limited attachments (with a limitation of e.g. 100 kB or so). > > Because both HTML and/or attachments allow for viruses to be sent through[Rik Dillen] the list, even ones that only > require you to view the email.[Rik Dillen] That's one of the reasons for the success of this list. > > [Rik Dillen] I understand your point of view, Jimmy, but that problem can be avoided in many other ways : I subscribed > to a central virus-and-other problems avoiding server, installed (and maintain) a firewall + virusscanner, and since I > have this computer (5 months now) I did not see ANY virus or virus-like species. Life is always full of decisions > between fun and a limited risk... The risk should be minimised without decreasing fun and freedom. > > Greetings, > > Rik Dillen _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pbhewitt at comcast.net Fri Apr 29 11:54:03 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul Hewitt) Date: Fri Apr 29 11:53:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] polishing fluorite References: <128.5b839e44.2f9c935b@aol.com><000d01c548f5$bca2cb20$6501a8c0@maingear> <426BF8F6.74FD@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <004101c54cec$d0244d40$6501a8c0@maingear> Thanks for your reply Kreigh. I thought it was a lost cause but I wanted other opinions. Most of the fluorite that I have is quarter sized or smaller so it wouldnt be worthwhile to polish it by hand. I do have some larger pieces that I will try that on. Paul in Marietta From geenet2 at mchsi.com Fri Apr 29 12:19:51 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Fri Apr 29 12:19:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle References: <20050428183602.1244.qmail@web51002.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006401c54cf0$6ab86aa0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> I think you'd only get those problems when you check the mail directly from the Yahoo site. My yahoo group mail comes directly to my OE inbox, no clicking necessary. Those were GOOD reasons mentioned in another post to stay with text instead of HTML I will admit. Doesn't matter to me which way I get the posts. So, I'll go with whatever is decided. Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Daly" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle > Are we talking about the same Yahoo? I belong to > several lists on Yahoo, and have never experienced any > of the problems mentioned. In fact, I get the > Rockhounds postings through my Yahoo mail account, and > see now difference between Rockhounds and the Yahoo > lists. > Tracking is something else again. I have no way of > knowing if I'm being tracked, nor do I particularly > care. > Jim Daly > --- Lanny wrote: > >> I >> really hate Yahoo > >> and have to click through the ads > and let's not spend the rest of our lives >> clicking on >> "continue to message" buttons to get away from the >> ads, and have to log >> in, periodically supply our password or log in again >> just because Yahoo >> wants us to in the middle of a session and suffer >> through all the rest >> of their administration. > From geenet2 at mchsi.com Fri Apr 29 12:27:11 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Fri Apr 29 12:27:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] The 'end' of Rockhounds@drizzle References: Message-ID: <00a101c54cf1$71427fe0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> If continuing the list involves expenses, count me in for a share if that's what it comes to. I really LIKE the idea of the eBay auction to raise funds. That could become an annual event and might just be a lot of fun. Jeanette From Ted at crystalgems.com Fri Apr 29 15:26:56 2005 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted) Date: Fri Apr 29 15:26:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] West North Carolina Collecting In-Reply-To: <8C71AE2A518A905-A4C-E716@mblk-d35.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <002801c54d0a$80e85a50$0200a8c0@gametime> Dave: This is a link to a book, but there is a clickable index of mines that should give some suggestions and clues. The book is nice too. http://wncrocks.com/book/book.htm Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of betdav97@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 10:56 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] West North Carolina Collecting Hi Group, A friend, Tom Hay of Mt. Mist, some of you may know him from Tucson, will be in northern Georgia, western North Carolina, and would like to know about collecting localities. He has been to Chunky Gal Mountain, but would like to visit other locales. Does anyone have any tips? Thanks, Dave Sunset Fossils & Minerals Morgantown, WV --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From afox at drizzle.com Fri Apr 29 19:43:03 2005 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Fri Apr 29 19:43:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Rockhounds List Planning Message-ID: Okay, my apologies for being so late on getting back to everyone. It's been a busy week at work, and I'm moving into a new apartment this weekend, so everything is in a bit of shambles. If I didn't reply to you personally, it's nothing personal (I'm totally swamped right now, with a thesis deadline rapidly coming up that needs some things done PDQ). So my email traffic has taken a bit of a hit...:-) A quick summary (since there's a lot of text below): If John, Julie, and Carol want to continue the list on drizzle, I will personally do the following: * Train y'all in GNU Mailman. * Pay for the list through the end of the year (Dec 2005). After that, the fundraising baton goes to someone else. We'll still need Rockhounds Archive hosts, as there's not enough server space issued through a drizzle account to host all the old digests. * Smile a lot. A couple of things: 1) A couple of people have offered to pay (through either personal donations or through an Ebay auction of rocks) to help maintain the list. I think this is a fine idea, and would certainly donate money to the next list administrator to help cover costs. I've never minded paying for the list out of pocket, as I felt I personally got a lot out of the list and loved being able to contribute a little something back to the community. But I most definately understand how it can be a burden on folks. Personally, I really, really, really liked the idea of an Ebay mineral auction. That seems like a great way to ensure that the new list administrator doesn't get swamped. Whatever money comes in could go straight to drizzle to pay ahead for the next year or two of running the list. 2) A number of people have stepped forward to volunteer to take over running the list: * Julie Siebel / John Doppler / Carol Bova: The Eclectic Lapidary: (http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/el_cfm2/main.cfm) * Jeanne Rhodes Moen: (http://jeanniusdesigns.com) 3) Several folks have graciously volunteered to host the Rockhounds Archives: * John Doppler / Carol Bova: The Eclectic Lapidary: (http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/el_cfm2/main.cfm) * Kreigh Tomaszewski (backup) I'd personally feel better if we had one or two more volunteers to host the archives as well. Security through data distribution and all. Right now, the archives are in two pieces. 1995 through early 2002 are offline on my desktop box, and occupy 28.7 Mb of space. 2002 through 2005 are in pipermail on the drizzle server, and occupy about the same amount of space (~20 Mb or so). So, all told, we're looking at about 50 Mb of text files Several folks have asked about what's usually involved in running the list. Here's a breakdown. * List setup: Fairly straightforward. Both Majordomo and Gnu Mailman have well-documented help files that make it trivial. Plus, you're welcome to look at both the Rockhounds setup I've run, as well as Tom Corson's old Majordomo files (which I still have). Gnu Mailman is a great choice, as it has a web-based interface that makes running the list relatively simple. * Anti-Spam maintenance: Drizzle uses SpamAssassin and Procmail, which make things fairly easy. There are a few custom spam filters written that have to be updated as the spammers learn, and you have to clean out the junk email bin about once a week. I also check the bin for false positives or people who are trying to subscribe but have gotten caught in the spam filters for some reason. * Subscription issues: Subscribing and unsubscribing people. Setting them on vacation. Dealing with the occasional email problem (such as other ISPs blocking us, domain addresses that don't match the one you subscribed under, etc). * Point-of-presence work: Maintaining the FAQ, maintaining the list website, advertising, etc. I don't currently do this (and I should have been doing it!) * Playing babysitter: This list is remarkably well behaved by Internet standards, and requires nearly no intervention from me. I do occasionally step in when things get a bit off-topic, and I almost always step in at the first sign of personal attacks or the hint of a flame war (except lately, my bad). The occasional conflict resolution, however, is part of the job. All told, I generally spend between 1-3 hours a week on the list. It would be nice, however, to have more time to spend on putting together the FAQ, making the archives searchable, making a prettier webpage, etc (things I should have been doing). As for a transition plan, my recommendations would be as follows: 1) Keep the list at Drizzle. Someone mailed me that it would be $15.00 / month (shell email account and the list fee). That preserves continuity, plus it's already set up and ready to go. I think that if someone was willing to do this, it would be the best option. ($135.00). Hell, I'd even pay for a couple of extra months to keep it HTML-free and at drizzle (through the end of the year) if someone else took over running it and the fundraising / funding after the year is up. 2) Migrate the list to a new host. We already have several volunteers (see above), but I am personally leaning towards hosting it at the Eclectic Lapidary site (if it has to move at all). Yahoo is, in my opinion, a bad idea. But, of course, that's my *opinion*. As for Text vs HTML, y'all know where I fall. Heck, I'm still using Pine as my email client in 2005, and am typing this in Vim (forget Emacs). HTML email is more hassle than it is worth, from a list administrator's point of view. It has truly been a pleasure working and sharing with everyone on the list, and you have made my life much richer for it. I don't plan on being a complete stranger (I'll lurk), so you don't be one either! Aaron -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From bova at mindspring.com Fri Apr 29 20:16:36 2005 From: bova at mindspring.com (Carol J. Bova) Date: Fri Apr 29 20:11:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Washington post story on Morefield Mine Message-ID: <42E9D3A2-B926-11D9-8031-000A95773806@mindspring.com> A thank you to Cathy Gaber for pointing out that it hit the paper today! Caroline Kettlewell did a piece in the Weekend, Saturday's Child section, called "Treasure Hunters." (It's online and in Friday's paper, page 38.) about a first time rockhounding visit to the mine with her son. I thought it was a good 'get acquainted' with rockhounding piece, told from a totally new to the concept point of view. Maybe it will stir up some new interest in folks who haven't tried it before, or who have been away for a while. Carol Here's the link with the Post's summary: Treasure Hunters By Caroline Kettlewell LOOKING FOR SOMETHING new to do with the family this summer? How about spending the day sifting rubble beneath the searing sun? Oh, come now, that doesn't sound like a bucket load of fun to you? Then you haven't yet visited Morefield Gem Mine. To view the entire article, go to http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/28/ AR2005042800746.html?referrer=emailarticle From rockcurrier at cs.com Fri Apr 29 20:36:45 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Fri Apr 29 20:24:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cleaning pyrite References: <200504270102.j3R126px015788@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <015a01c54d35$d5f006d0$6901a8c0@rock3> Rik Dillen siad.... And it can be worse than that ! Last week I cleaned a lot of pyrite crystals from Peru ultrasonically. The cleaning water turned grayish-yellowish-or something. I cleaned the specimens and the tray of my US-bath thoroughly with water afterwards, but a day later the whole stainless steel tray was discoloured into brownish. I needed to polish the inner surfaces of the tray to get rid (more or less) of the traces of the agressive liquid...... The speicmen dealers in Lima who sell all of the pyrite from Peru to the rest of the world routinely soak most of the good speicmens in hydrochloric acid to clean them and make them brighter and more saleable. Some of these guys are not very carefull about neutralizing the acid and may just soak it once in some water rather than give it several rinces. We have sometimes unwrapped pyrite from peru that has so much acit in it that the wrapping paper is partially desinigrates. So when you are cleaning Peruvian pyrite you might keep this in mind and perhaps even put a little sodium bicarbonate or ammonia in the cleaning bath to neutralize excess acid that was not neutralized properly. If you want to clean pyrite, the best method I have found is to use a little of the commercial cleaning liquid called Limeaway on the pyrite. Just get the pyrite wet with tap water to fill up most of the cracks and then dip a brush (a tooth brush is good) into some of the lime away and scrub the surface of the pyrite crystals and then rince of the specimen with water. The cleaning solution appears to be a phosphoric acid based and I have had surprisingly good results using it. If your pyrite crystals are naturally dull, this reagent will not make them bright. I am still looking for a reagent that can work that trick. From roughrock at gmail.com Fri Apr 29 21:17:55 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Fri Apr 29 21:17:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Rockhounds List Planning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 4/29/05, Aaron Fox wrote: > > 1) A couple of people have offered to pay (through either personal > donations or through an Ebay auction of ro cks) to help maintain the list. It seems like we need a Paypal username to send the $$$. I can't do it because I already get WAY to much attention from the IRS. And if we do rocks it is probably best to wait until they sell before shipping them. I've sold rocks on Ebay and shipping usually doubles the cost of purchase. But do we need Ebay? I've got a nice piece of Maury Mountain agate, about 3 pounds, if anybody is interested. All the money can go to Drizzle. I'll even pay for shipping. Grant aka GEMSTOCKS on Ebay. From tam2819 at cox.net Fri Apr 29 15:22:33 2005 From: tam2819 at cox.net (T.A.Masters) Date: Fri Apr 29 22:25:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Washington post story on Morefield Mine References: <42E9D3A2-B926-11D9-8031-000A95773806@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <4272B3A8.2000906@cox.net> Carol, The link gave me this, > > Forbidden > > Your client is not allowed to access the requested object. Terrie --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sat Apr 30 03:29:00 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sat Apr 30 03:29:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cleaning pyrite In-Reply-To: <015a01c54d35$d5f006d0$6901a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: <200504301029.j3UAT1UL032538@outmx019.isp.belgacom.be> Thanks, Rock, interesting data. Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Rock Currier Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 5:37 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Cleaning pyrite Rik Dillen siad.... And it can be worse than that ! Last week I cleaned a lot of pyrite crystals from Peru ultrasonically. The cleaning water turned grayish-yellowish-or something. I cleaned the specimens and the tray of my US-bath thoroughly with water afterwards, but a day later the whole stainless steel tray was discoloured into brownish. I needed to polish the inner surfaces of the tray to get rid (more or less) of the traces of the agressive liquid...... The speicmen dealers in Lima who sell all of the pyrite from Peru to the rest of the world routinely soak most of the good speicmens in hydrochloric acid to clean them and make them brighter and more saleable. Some of these guys are not very carefull about neutralizing the acid and may just soak it once in some water rather than give it several rinces. We have sometimes unwrapped pyrite from peru that has so much acit in it that the wrapping paper is partially desinigrates. So when you are cleaning Peruvian pyrite you might keep this in mind and perhaps even put a little sodium bicarbonate or ammonia in the cleaning bath to neutralize excess acid that was not neutralized properly. If you want to clean pyrite, the best method I have found is to use a little of the commercial cleaning liquid called Limeaway on the pyrite. Just get the pyrite wet with tap water to fill up most of the cracks and then dip a brush (a tooth brush is good) into some of the lime away and scrub the surface of the pyrite crystals and then rince of the specimen with water. The cleaning solution appears to be a phosphoric acid based and I have had surprisingly good results using it. If your pyrite crystals are naturally dull, this reagent will not make them bright. I am still looking for a reagent that can work that trick. _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Lapidry at aol.com Sat Apr 30 06:23:33 2005 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Sat Apr 30 06:23:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Washington post story on Morefield Mine Message-ID: <196.3e363906.2fa4e0d5@aol.com> Terrie: I had the same message. Try _http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/28/AR2005042800746.html_ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/28/AR2005042800746.html) Dan In a message dated 4/30/2005 1:25:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, tam2819@cox.net writes: Carol, The link gave me this, > > Forbidden > > Your client is not allowed to access the requested object. Terrie --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From bova at mindspring.com Sat Apr 30 06:35:51 2005 From: bova at mindspring.com (Carol J. Bova) Date: Sat Apr 30 06:30:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Washington post story on Morefield Mine In-Reply-To: <196.3e363906.2fa4e0d5@aol.com> Message-ID: Sorry about that. Apparently the Post wants you to get there directly. http://www.washingtonpost.com click news button in search and enter Morefield Mine. First article that comes up is Treasure Hunters and that's it. Carol On Saturday, April 30, 2005, at 09:23 AM, Lapidry@aol.com wrote: > > Terrie: > > I had the same message. Try > _http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/28/ > AR2005042800746.html_ > (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/28/ > AR2005042800746.html) > > Dan > > In a message dated 4/30/2005 1:25:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, > tam2819@cox.net writes: > > Carol, > The link gave me this, > >> >> Forbidden >> >> Your client is not allowed to access the requested object. > > Terrie > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From Lapidry at aol.com Sat Apr 30 06:34:57 2005 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Sat Apr 30 06:35:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Washington post story on Morefield Mine Message-ID: <65.446e63be.2fa4e381@aol.com> Carol: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/28/AR200504280074 6.html should work. Very nice plug for rockhounding. Glad you were there. Dan In a message dated 4/30/2005 9:31:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, bova@mindspring.com writes: Sorry about that. Apparently the Post wants you to get there directly. http://www.washingtonpost.com click news button in search and enter Morefield Mine. First article that comes up is Treasure Hunters and that's it. Carol On Saturday, April 30, 2005, at 09:23 AM, Lapidry@aol.com wrote: > > Terrie: > > I had the same message. Try > _http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/28/ > AR2005042800746.html_ > (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/28/ > AR2005042800746.html) > > Dan > > In a message dated 4/30/2005 1:25:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, > tam2819@cox.net writes: > > Carol, > The link gave me this, > >> >> Forbidden >> >> Your client is not allowed to access the requested object. > > Terrie --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From betdav97 at aol.com Sat Apr 30 06:55:27 2005 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Sat Apr 30 06:55:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Rockhounds List Planning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C71BA3661A3673-B20-241C4@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com> Please folks, Lets not go the E-Bay route, I would gladly chip in to help cover costs. That is my two cents on the matter. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From betdav97 at aol.com Sat Apr 30 07:07:03 2005 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Sat Apr 30 07:07:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Washington post story on Morefield Mine In-Reply-To: <196.3e363906.2fa4e0d5@aol.com> References: <196.3e363906.2fa4e0d5@aol.com> Message-ID: <8C71BA504EB8D68-B20-24220@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com> Hi, The second link did go through, however, it sounds like the buckets are salted. I don't recall amethyst and onyx as being listed in the suite of minerals found at the mine. Topaz, yes. I used to visit the old Rutherford Mine eons ago, where you put your two bucks in a slot at the front door and wandered back to the dumps. Times have changed. Dave --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From morningstar at att.net Sat Apr 30 07:31:38 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Sat Apr 30 07:27:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Rockhounds List Planning In-Reply-To: <8C71BA3661A3673-B20-241C4@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C71BA3661A3673-B20-241C4@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <427396CA.5020705@att.net> betdav97@aol.com wrote: > > Please folks, > I would gladly chip in to help cover costs. I would chip in as well. I would not be where I am today without many of the people on this list. Don H From jr50wv at yahoo.com Sat Apr 30 07:42:44 2005 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Sat Apr 30 07:42:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] List costs and services Message-ID: <20050430144244.38515.qmail@web41015.mail.yahoo.com> Hi: I'm willing and able to pony up funds as needed in order to maintain and continue the rockhounds@drizzle listserve. I find it to be a wonderful source for complex geological and scientific questions, unmatched by any other listserve or group I'm found. [The only competetion at all is the group of folks at Mindat.org!] I agree with Kreigh and the guys - html messages are way too dangerous, text lets people say whatever they want to say. If it winds up moving to eclecticlapidary as Carol has suggested, that's OK too, as long as everyone is OK with that move and it can be done more-or-less transparently. The problem I see there is that infrequent users of the list may lose their connection as the IP address changes from the current provider. And it is these more infrequent visitors who provide much of the spice to the list. JR in WV __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From tam2819 at cox.net Sat Apr 30 04:15:28 2005 From: tam2819 at cox.net (T.A.Masters) Date: Sat Apr 30 11:18:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Washington post story on Morefield Mine References: Message-ID: <427368D0.3050300@cox.net> Carol, Any way to read the article without registering on the WP pages? Terrie From tam2819 at cox.net Sat Apr 30 04:17:27 2005 From: tam2819 at cox.net (T.A.Masters) Date: Sat Apr 30 11:20:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Washington post story on Morefield Mine References: <196.3e363906.2fa4e0d5@aol.com> Message-ID: <42736947.2040500@cox.net> Dan, Thanks, this is what I get with that link. > > PRINT EDITION > | > Subscribe to The > Washington Post > We are unable to locate the page you requested. > The page may have moved or may no longer be available > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) multipart/related text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sat Apr 30 12:23:53 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sat Apr 30 12:23:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] List costs and services In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050430192353.81734.qmail@web51005.mail.yahoo.com> There seems to be a consensus that we don't want to go with Yahoo or any other HTML based system. Thanks to the explanations of the pros and cons, I agree. I can see no problem with moving to eclecticlapidary. It will work the same as drizzle, and the financial issue goes away. It also solves the problem of archive storage, although it wouldn't be a bad idea to keep those archives on a couple of CDs in a remote location for security. Carol said in her original offer that she could move the subscription list. Thus, any infrequent poster would be getting all the posts, and would only have to hit "reply" to contribute. Jim Daly > If it winds up moving to eclecticlapidary as Carol > has > suggested, that's OK too, as long as everyone is OK > with that move and it can be done more-or-less > transparently. > > The problem I see there is that infrequent users of > the list may lose their connection as the IP address > changes from the current provider. And it is these > more infrequent visitors who provide much of the > spice > to the list. > > JR in WV __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From bobl at peaktopeak.com Sat Apr 30 12:35:52 2005 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Sat Apr 30 12:35:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Washington post story on Morefield Mine In-Reply-To: <65.446e63be.2fa4e381@aol.com> Message-ID: <200504301935.j3UJZqKm030657@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Hi Terrie, As Dan mentioned, this one works: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/28/AR2005042800 746.html Just make sure it is all on one line in case your e-mail client wraps it to the next line. I haven't subscribed to it, but it still works for me. Regards, Bob From davisj at earthlink.net Sat Apr 30 12:55:29 2005 From: davisj at earthlink.net (Joe Davis) Date: Sat Apr 30 12:55:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] List costs and services In-Reply-To: <20050430192353.81734.qmail@web51005.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: My vote is for no ebay (although I use it) and no HTML. Am also willing to contribute $$ if needed. Joe (in wet Washington) From digem at plateautel.net Sat Apr 30 15:16:13 2005 From: digem at plateautel.net (Allison & Wayne Holland) Date: Sat Apr 30 15:06:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] All for Eclectic Lapidary and Carol Bova......... Message-ID: <427403AD.6000401@plateautel.net> Here's a few votes for Carol taking over. She has always been a great asset to the list and seems very personable and level headed at that. All in favor say Aye! Allison & Wayne From agesilaus at gmail.com Sat Apr 30 15:08:20 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Apr 30 15:08:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] All for Eclectic Lapidary and Carol Bova......... In-Reply-To: <427403AD.6000401@plateautel.net> References: <427403AD.6000401@plateautel.net> Message-ID: Sounds like a great plan to me. Thanks Carol. Bryan On 4/30/05, Allison & Wayne Holland wrote: > Here's a few votes for Carol taking over. She has always been a great > asset to the list and seems very personable and level headed at that. > All in favor say Aye! > Allison & Wayne > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From Ted at crystalgems.com Sat Apr 30 16:49:53 2005 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted) Date: Sat Apr 30 16:49:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Washington post story on Morefield Mine In-Reply-To: <8C71BA504EB8D68-B20-24220@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <001101c54ddf$3f4f8930$0200a8c0@gametime> Dave: Once upon a time the previous owner of the Morefield mine did bring in other minerals. But I'm not aware that onyx is one of them. I personally have found small pale amethyst pieces on fresh rock from the mine. It could be that she is identifying the white/clear banded quartz as onyx. The official list has "quartz - varieties". Ted -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of betdav97@aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 10:07 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Washington post story on Morefield Mine Hi, The second link did go through, however, it sounds like the buckets are salted. I don't recall amethyst and onyx as being listed in the suite of minerals found at the mine. Topaz, yes. I used to visit the old Rutherford Mine eons ago, where you put your two bucks in a slot at the front door and wandered back to the dumps. Times have changed. Dave --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Apr 30 18:02:31 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Apr 30 17:53:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Washington post story on Morefield Mine References: <427368D0.3050300@cox.net> Message-ID: <42742865.363E@Tomaszewski.net> T.A.Masters wrote: > > Carol, > Any way to read the article without registering on the WP pages? > Terrie Terrie, You might try accessing it thru http://www.bugmenot.com as they bypass the registration for a lot of sites. Kreigh From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Apr 30 18:10:51 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Apr 30 18:01:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] List costs and services References: <20050430192353.81734.qmail@web51005.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42742A57.1EBF@Tomaszewski.net> Jim, In order to effectively address erronious reports of the list being spam the list administrator must have a subscription confirmation on file for every member iut is mailed to. If the list moves everyone must subscribe to the new list so the new administrator has confirmations on file. We would lose many members. Keeping the list at its current address retains the confirmations as the administration is transferred. There are strong reasons for retaining the list at drizzle. Kreigh Jim Daly wrote: > > There seems to be a consensus that we don't want to go > with Yahoo or any other HTML based system. Thanks to > the explanations of the pros and cons, I agree. > I can see no problem with moving to eclecticlapidary. > It will work the same as drizzle, and the financial > issue goes away. It also solves the problem of archive > storage, although it wouldn't be a bad idea to keep > those archives on a couple of CDs in a remote location > for security. > Carol said in her original offer that she could move > the subscription list. Thus, any infrequent poster > would be getting all the posts, and would only have to > hit "reply" to contribute. > Jim Daly > > If it winds up moving to eclecticlapidary as Carol > > has > > suggested, that's OK too, as long as everyone is OK > > with that move and it can be done more-or-less > > transparently. > > > > The problem I see there is that infrequent users of > > the list may lose their connection as the IP address > > changes from the current provider. And it is these > > more infrequent visitors who provide much of the > > spice > > to the list. > > > > JR in WV From bova at mindspring.com Sat Apr 30 18:34:45 2005 From: bova at mindspring.com (Carol J. Bova) Date: Sat Apr 30 18:29:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Washington post story on Morefield Mine In-Reply-To: <8C71BA504EB8D68-B20-24220@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <32FEA22C-B9E1-11D9-8031-000A95773806@mindspring.com> Dave, This is not a case of salted 'buckets' like some in NC. The mine tailings are spread out across a broad stretch of the collecting area from the full scoop of a backloader that slowly dumps the load as it backs up. The mention of amethyst and onyx was in connection with a school trip. There are classes there all week during the school year, so it's quite possible they provide something for the children to 'find'. Onyx was not mentioned in the orientation and safety instructions everyone is given before going down to the collecting areas. I did pick up a few amethyst chips, but they weren't anything significant, and I passed them on to kids nearby. Amethyst is reported at the Rutherford Mine and the Duncan Farm in the same area in "Minerals of Virginia, Research Division Bulletin 47", Virginia Polytechnic Institute, R.V. Dietrich, 1970. Whether those chips were added for the kids or from the location, I couldn't say. As far as lapidary things go, the amazonite and the orange spessartite garnets are the main things, along with quartz. I did find a small piece of extremely gemmy lepidolite, and a piece of silver-grey moonstone. Haven't had anyone look at the tiny black metallic crystals or use a microscope on some bright yellow ones, so I've no idea what they are. *s* Carol On Saturday, April 30, 2005, at 10:07 AM, betdav97@aol.com wrote: > > Hi, > The second link did go through, however, it sounds like the buckets > are salted. I don't > recall amethyst and onyx as being listed in the suite of minerals > found at the mine. Topaz, > yes. I used to visit the old Rutherford Mine eons ago, where you put > your two bucks in a > slot at the front door and wandered back to the dumps. Times have > changed. > Dave > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From DonD110 at aol.com Sat Apr 30 19:40:48 2005 From: DonD110 at aol.com (DonD110@aol.com) Date: Sat Apr 30 19:40:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Are all the old slab saws gone? Message-ID: <1da.3b3e06cc.2fa59bb0@aol.com> Hello all, This is my first post. Should I be nervous? LOL I'm from Salt Lake City Utah, Been a rockhound off and on for most of my life. I have been looking all over for an older large slab saw, 18" or bigger. I'd love to get a hold of a Highland Park U model 24" ! But like who wouldn't? So any ideas on where to find a old saw to restore? I keep looking on eBay but the shipping looks like it could kill ya on a big saw LOL. Anyone within a days drive have one they might part with??? =) Got rocks? Don --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Rocknlight at aol.com Sat Apr 30 22:22:10 2005 From: Rocknlight at aol.com (Rocknlight@aol.com) Date: Sat Apr 30 22:22:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Are all the old slab saws gone? Message-ID: <204.b068f7.2fa5c182@aol.com> Don Just keep checking your local paper and non local papers.. If you can find a good old saw within a 5 hour drive, or even a full one day drive and then spend the night and drive back in the morning, it may be worth it for you.. Start contacting local and non local rock shops and clubs and see if anyone has what you are looking for... Finding a good working old 18" + saw is not easy....But it certainly is possible.. Good Luck......RocknLight --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Rocknlight at aol.com Sat Apr 30 22:26:07 2005 From: Rocknlight at aol.com (Rocknlight@aol.com) Date: Sat Apr 30 22:26:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] All for Eclectic Lapidary and Carol Bova......... Message-ID: <53.26b97eff.2fa5c26f@aol.com> I have not been following the candidates topic very well.. However, if Carol Bova wishes to truly take over the list, I believe Carol would do a GREAT job of handling the list...Carol would certainly have my vote. RocknLight --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html ---