From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sat Jan 1 01:37:27 2005 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sat Jan 1 01:37:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] postscript about tsunami warnings In-Reply-To: <41D63445.1020407@earthlink.net> References: <20041231191934.E23C1CBA62F@delivery.infowest.com> <41D63445.1020407@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <41D66F57.2010606@xs4all.nl> I frequently check the following sites: http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_Data/telemetry_data/map_sta_eq.shtml (cool site with clickable map of many worldwide oberservatories, click the red dots) http://wwwneic.cr.usgs.gov/neis/bulletin/bulletin.html http://www.knmi.nl/onderzk/seismo/ (site of Dutch seismic center) http://orfeus.knmi.nl/recentquakes/recentquakes.html That gives a good idea of all shocks at least down to magnitude 3. Cheers, Maurice Dave Guin wrote: > Margaret Malm wrote: > >> Maurice, you should "subscribe" to the National Earthquake Information >> Center. (send an e-mail to majordomo@ghtmail.er.usgs.gov In the >> body (NOT the subject line) of the message just put >> subscribe bigquake >> >> >> > Try this address; > > bigquake-subscribe@eqinfo.wr.usgs.gov > > Peace, > dave > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Sat Jan 1 06:18:21 2005 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Sat Jan 1 06:25:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake References: <000201c4ef6b$d1a18860$2d4227c4@privatehome> Message-ID: <000401c4f00d$b5a72e10$8c3f27c4@privatehome> Sorry, misread the original text!! Horst ----- Original Message ----- From: "Horst Windisch" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 8:57 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake > Hi Bryan, > > Made a similar mistake some time ago. Arte you really older than 195 > years? > > Horst > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "J Bryan Kramer" > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > > Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 2:56 AM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fw: Sumatra earthquake > > >> To answer my own question, it was Tambora in 1815 (the year without a >> summer) and it cause sea level rises of about 3-4 meters. Also located in >> Indonesia. >> >> Bryan >> >> -------Original Message----- >> -- >> --I think it depends on the type of motion generated by that >> --earthquake. Quakes with a large vertical motion tend to make tsunamis. >> -- >> -- As for the frequency of tsunamis in the Indian ocean...they >> --had a government official from the Maldives on NPR tonight >> --who said that they had a small tsunami in 1987, the Krakatoa >> --explosion generated a large tsunami (30 to 40 meters high, >> --much larger than this one) in the 1800's so the every couple >> --hundred years theory seems unlikely. Wasn't there another >> --volcanic event around the time of Krakatoa in te same area? >> -- >> --Bryan >> -- >> -- >> ---------Original Message----- >> ---- >> ---- >> ----BUT when one hears of, or feels an earthquake, especially one >> ----offshore, doesn't it logically preclude a tsunami event of >> ----some magnitude SOMEWHERE? As soon as I saw the first notice >> ----online about an 8.5 earthquake off Sumatra, I thought to >> ----myself where will the tidal wave hit? If the news services >> ----had picked up on the earthquake immediately, I don't see how >> ----the awareness of a possible tidal wave didn't occur to the >> ----civil authorities in every one of those coastal villages and >> ----towns. Even if the Pacific gets the majority of >> ----earthquake---->tidal wave occurrences. Wouldn't an 8.5 in the >> ----Indian Ocean alarm you if you were in that neighborhood?? It >> ----wouldn't take "million dollar sensors" to make me head for >> ----high ground, especially in an island nation. >> ---- >> ----Jeanette >> ---- >> ----> Actually there was a discussion of this on NPR this morning. >> ----> >> ----> Short story: At this time they believe tsunamis occur in >> --the Indian >> ----> Ocean on the order of one every FEW HUNDRED years, whereas the >> ----> frequency in the Pacific Ocean is one every few years or >> --a decade. >> ----> Consequently, up to now the danger has not seemed urgent. Also >> ----> consequently, whereas all the Pacific Rim countries have specific >> ----> agencies and mechanisms in place to alert people to the dangers, >> ----> countries around the Indian Ocean do not have such centralized >> ----> agencies; therefore, there was actually no one to call to >> --alert the >> ----> whole country. The experts say that for "millions of >> ----dollars" sensors >> ----> could be placed on the floor of the Indian Ocean just like in the >> ----> Pacific Ocean. But with the periodicity ranging to hundreds >> ----of years, >> ----> how long would the countries responsible for maintaining >> ----the sensors >> ----> and the civil alert system pay attention? Years? Decades? >> ----> Centuries???? >> ----> >> ----> >> ----> >> ----> Brenda LaCroix wrote: >> ----> >> ----> >While I understand both of those things (grin)....what I don't >> ----> >understand >> ----is why no one picked up a phone to tell anyone anything!!! >> ----> >That is what is boggling my mind, I guess....they have >> --tv stations >> ----> >and >> ----news stations...India is a very commercialized country, >> ----> >considering the area. >> ----> >Brenda >> ---->/rockhounds >> ---- >> ----_______________________________________________ >> ----Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> ----WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> ----Subscription Services: >> ----http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> ---- >> -- >> -- >> --_______________________________________________ >> --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> --Subscription Services: >> --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> -- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From kadok at infowest.com Sat Jan 1 09:42:20 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sat Jan 1 09:42:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] postscript about tsunami warnings In-Reply-To: <41D66F57.2010606@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20050101174219.16673CB986E@delivery.infowest.com> Ah, yes; these are good! Great listing/summary! Thanks! (But the site I suggested automatically sends you an e-mail. But it only goes down to 5.5 (4.5 in the U.S.)) Cheers! Margaret I frequently check the following sites: http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_Data/telemetry_data/map_sta_eq.shtml (cool site with clickable map of many worldwide oberservatories, click the red dots) http://wwwneic.cr.usgs.gov/neis/bulletin/bulletin.html http://www.knmi.nl/onderzk/seismo/ (site of Dutch seismic center) http://orfeus.knmi.nl/recentquakes/recentquakes.html That gives a good idea of all shocks at least down to magnitude 3. Cheers, Maurice Dave Guin wrote: > Margaret Malm wrote: > >> Maurice, you should "subscribe" to the National Earthquake Information >> Center. (send an e-mail to majordomo@ghtmail.er.usgs.gov In the >> body (NOT the subject line) of the message just put >> subscribe bigquake >> >> >> > Try this address; > > bigquake-subscribe@eqinfo.wr.usgs.gov > > Peace, > dave > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Sat Jan 1 10:11:19 2005 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Sat Jan 1 10:09:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] maps and collecting locations In-Reply-To: <1f3.3af3297.2f047234@aol.com> Message-ID: <200501011809.j01I9okM004405@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Hi Cheryl: Of course, I'll have to plug my MasMils/PLUS here. (Hey... I would have done it sooner, but I was off the web for THREE WHOLE DAYS helping my dear old dad celebrate his 81st! {Gee Dad, your TV would work a lot better if the antenna was connected} But I digress...). You can read about it on my site: http://www.catspaw-minerals.com/Masmils%20PLUS.htm I've got a bunch up on eBay right now, or you can just snarf up a copy from me. I use the software with the DeLorme TOPO USA whenever I travel. Coupled with DeLorme's GPS receive you can click on where you are and where you want to go and the DeLorme's will give you a door-to-portal routing. The topo's are pretty decent. GcB > > In a message dated 12/29/2004 1:41:49 P.M. Mountain Standard > Time, Bunyhgr203@aol.com writes: > do any of you have recommendations of where to look for > specific information,,,maps,,and > > types of "software" that can help me build a map collection > {topographical > maps} . > > > Cheryl > Omaha,Ne From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Jan 1 11:00:17 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Jan 1 10:59:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: <20041231185743.CDE69CBA5EB@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: Hi Margaret & Don & Pete & all I don't think that fluorescence is a consistent tool for mineral determination. Maybe some exeptions: scheelite/powelite, ruby, uranium-minerals and to some degree perhaps diamond and zircon. Looking at a fluorescent mineral under all wavelengths at the same time would be poor entertainment... Some specific typical reactions, like that of tugtupite or Terlingua type calcite would remain unnoticed. I believe however that we may yet be surprised if some clever enineer were to fill the gap between LW and MW (about 320 to 340 nm) and the ap between SW ad MW (say 255 nm - 300 nm). Also a good blue light source, but that can be done with LED's now. I'm in favor of separate narrow band sources that may reveal multiple responses in a mineral... we can always light'm up at once... Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm Verzonden: vrijdag 31 december 2004 19:58 Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence I agree, Axel. It IS a continuous spectrum. Who knows, maybe the great majority of minerals do excite at some wavelength, perhaps very narrow. It we had light of all wavelengths at our disposal, and with means to make the band very narrow, perhaps it could turn out to be a good and simple means of identifying many minerals! Or am I way out in left field? Margaret ----I think we should look upon UV as a continuous spectrum in which many minerals have there optimal exiting band of wavelengths. We have only three narrow bands at our disposal... Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Peter J. Modreski Verzonden: woensdag 29 december 2004 19:14 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence Brenda, Most rubies fluoresce red, under long-wave ultraviolet light; an exception among minerals, because long-wave UV lamps are the less expensive kind. Some rubies are brighter than others. Yes, you should get a lamp and check out all your ruby crystals! One of many good places to start for more information is the Fluorescent Mineral Society website, http://www.uvminerals.org/ Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda LaCroix" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Minedat > NO....I have never put a blacklight on it.....should I?!?!?!? > > What would I be looking for if I did....LOL!!! I have read that rubies can flouresce (sp?), is that right?? Is that what I would > be looking for?? > > Where does one go about getting a blacklight, or finding someone who has one that I could use momentarily?? I certainly wouldn't > need to buy one, would I??? Or maybe it is something that is needed to be a rockhound?? hehehe!!! > > Very interested..... > Brenda _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sat Jan 1 11:02:39 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sat Jan 1 11:02:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] mine photos on mindat Message-ID: <007701c4f034$77013530$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I have been busy uploading mine photos to mindat. Recently I've included photos (from scanned slides) of: IL-KY fluorspar district: Cave in Rock (the cave) Cleveland mine Hastie's quarry (more pix) Hickory Cane Victory mine (one more) Pygmy mine - new entry to mindat Old Jim (more pix) Others: Arnold, MO Bassett Prodcuts quarry (KY) - new entry to mindat Elmwood mine (Tenn.) I've also uploaded photos from my collection of mineralized drill cores from the dumped core library of Allied Chemical Co. (parent of the Minerva Oil Co. - owners of the Minerva No.1, Lafayette mine, etc.) Finally, I've updated the background information for many of the Rosiclare mines, in particular: Good Hope - Extension, Rosiclare, Blue Diggings, Daisy and Hillside mines from my article in Min Rec in 1997. I will add historical photos from my collection as time allows. Alan G. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Jan 1 11:04:11 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Jan 1 11:03:39 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: <008e01c4ef5e$d1668e20$8291fea9@WesMedion1918> Message-ID: I doubt if he can make a lamp with max output at 320-350nm and 255-300 nm ;-))) There lies the problem. Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens rocks4u@prodigy.net Verzonden: vrijdag 31 december 2004 18:33 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence You can exactly what you want at http://www.fluorescents.com/ If he doesn't have the exact item he can make it for you. Cheers! Wes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 7:45 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > Hi Pete, > >>now we can argue about how many minerals do which! But wouldn't >>you still say that, "on average", there aren't nearly as many minerals >>that >>fl. brightly under LW, and SW? > > Yes that is true and also quite logical... > >>(Of course, I'm always biased by the >>preponderance of Franklin/Sterling Hill specimens in displays or >>collections, most of which need SW to fluoresce brightly.) > > Some of the F/SH calcites respond with a weird violet fluorescence under > LW > (blacklight with woods glass mantle, unfiltered). You'd miss that if you > would limit yourself to SW only ;-)))) > > >>And to be honest, although I have a MW lamp, I really don't use it all >>that >>much, and I don't look at as many of my specimens with it as I should. > When >>I bought it I got one (made by UVP) that is just MW; if I had to do it >>again, I'd get one that was one bulb SW, one bulb MW; then I'd toggle back >>and forth to MW after using the SW lamp, and I'll bet I'd use it a lot > more. > > My MW lamp is still in disassembled state... I cannibalized it for the > display of our annual show. I distinctly remember however that most of my > specimens (both in the LW and SW display) went completely bananas under > MW. > My Chinese scheelite fluoresces medium bright tan under SW while light > blue > under SW and weak brown under LW... Powellite fluoresces MUCH stronger in > MW > than in SW... So does cupro-scheelite. > > On of these days I'll call my cousin-in-law. He has some contacts at one > of > the major lamp manufacturers. It would be interesting to design a custom > filled halogen lamp with added salts and gases to pump up the volume and > bandwidth of the output UV. > Remember, ours is a community without established rights in UV-land... we > thrive by the grace of other users with specific needs (curing of ink, > disinfections, skin treatment, water purification, etc). There are no > lamps > or phosphors especially made for us. There are only reasonably good > approximations of what we need thanks to clever manufacturers... > I think we would welcome a set of say 3 lamps that range from 380 nm to > 254.6 without gaps. I know I would ;-))) > > Cheers > > Axel > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at aloha.net Sat Jan 1 11:52:08 2005 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Jan 1 11:21:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question In-Reply-To: References: <20041231185743.CDE69CBA5EB@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20050101093356.03423580@mail.aloha.net> Here's a question about fluorescence (that may serve to further convince people of my ignorance): A couple of years ago I took a public tour of a cave in central Pennsylvania not far from Penn State U. (while Bill was at an astronomy conference). At one point the guide turned off the dim lights that illuminated the cave and took her large flashlight and pressed it against the wall of the cave. It was an ordinary incandescent flashlight. After about 10 or 15 seconds she turned off the flashlight and there was a circle of phosphorescence glowing from the wall where the light had been. She said something like, "I discovered this by accident, and I'm sorry to say I've never found out what causes it." Bill (my resident astronomer) tells me that phosphorescence from ordinary incandescent light is not terribly unusual. But I'd never seen it before in cave or mine walls or any of our mineral specimens. So my question is, what kind of rock or mineral is likely to do that? Aloha, Kitty (an enthusiastic but non-expert glowhound) At 09:00 AM 1/1/2005, you wrote: >Hi Margaret & Don & Pete & all > >I don't think that fluorescence is a consistent tool for mineral >determination. Maybe some exeptions: scheelite/powelite, ruby, >uranium-minerals and to some degree perhaps diamond and zircon. > >Looking at a fluorescent mineral under all wavelengths at the same time >would be poor entertainment... Some specific typical reactions, like that of >tugtupite or Terlingua type calcite would remain unnoticed. >I believe however that we may yet be surprised if some clever enineer were >to fill the gap between LW and MW (about 320 to 340 nm) and the ap between >SW ad MW (say 255 nm - 300 nm). >Also a good blue light source, but that can be done with LED's now. >I'm in favor of separate narrow band sources that may reveal multiple >responses in a mineral... we can always light'm up at once... > >Cheers > >Axel > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm >Verzonden: vrijdag 31 december 2004 19:58 >Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors' >Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > >I agree, Axel. It IS a continuous spectrum. Who knows, maybe the great >majority of minerals do excite at some wavelength, perhaps very narrow. It >we had light of all wavelengths at our disposal, and with means to make the >band very narrow, perhaps it could turn out to be a good and simple means of >identifying many minerals! > >Or am I way out in left field? > >Margaret > >----I think we should look upon UV as a continuous spectrum in which many >minerals have there optimal exiting band of wavelengths. We have only three >narrow bands at our disposal... > >Cheers >Axel > > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Peter J. Modreski >Verzonden: woensdag 29 december 2004 19:14 >Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > >Brenda, > >Most rubies fluoresce red, under long-wave ultraviolet light; an exception >among minerals, because long-wave UV lamps are the less expensive kind. >Some rubies are brighter than others. Yes, you should get a lamp and check >out all your ruby crystals! > >One of many good places to start for more information is the Fluorescent >Mineral Society website, > >http://www.uvminerals.org/ > >Pete > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Brenda LaCroix" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:56 AM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Minedat > > > > > NO....I have never put a blacklight on it.....should I?!?!?!? > > > > What would I be looking for if I did....LOL!!! I have read that rubies >can flouresce (sp?), is that right?? Is that what I would > > be looking for?? > > > > Where does one go about getting a blacklight, or finding someone who has >one that I could use momentarily?? I certainly wouldn't > > need to buy one, would I??? Or maybe it is something that is needed to be >a rockhound?? hehehe!!! > > > > Very interested..... > > Brenda > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004 From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sat Jan 1 11:58:51 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sat Jan 1 11:50:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question References: <20041231185743.CDE69CBA5EB@delivery.infowest.com> <6.1.2.0.0.20050101093356.03423580@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <001101c4f03c$53fb5220$c5a4490c@pete> Kitty, >From what little I think any of us know about this, phosphorescence from exposure to ordinary incandescent light appears to be not all that unusual--it's often been noted in caves. As far as I know, it seems to be most commonly seen in calcite and perhaps aragonite. I would not be surprised if gypsum does it too. I don't think anyone really knows much about what causes this, other than to blame the generic category of "probably lattice defects in the mineral". And I don't think anyone has ever done any real systematic surveys of how many different minerals exhibit this, and how often any given mineral (such as calcite) does it. Most collectors don't often think of doing this--looking at their specimens in the dark with a good strong incandescent light, then turning the light off--so I think it does most often get noticed in caves, where people aremore likely to notice it when they switch off lights that are their sole source of illumination. I think it's one of those "mostly unknown areas that would be a good subject for more study", though what most collectors could do would only be an empirical survey of the behavior of different minerals; it would take a sophisticated university-level research program to really learn about the "why" of what's going on, and as Don I think noted, there just isn't much important reason for funding to support these kinds of studies. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 12:52 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question > Here's a question about fluorescence (that may serve to further convince > people of my ignorance): > > A couple of years ago I took a public tour of a cave in central > Pennsylvania not far from Penn State U. (while Bill was at an astronomy > conference). At one point the guide turned off the dim lights that > illuminated the cave and took her large flashlight and pressed it against > the wall of the cave. It was an ordinary incandescent flashlight. After > about 10 or 15 seconds she turned off the flashlight and there was a circle > of phosphorescence glowing from the wall where the light had been. She > said something like, "I discovered this by accident, and I'm sorry to say > I've never found out what causes it." > > Bill (my resident astronomer) tells me that phosphorescence from ordinary > incandescent light is not terribly unusual. But I'd never seen it before > in cave or mine walls or any of our mineral specimens. So my question is, > what kind of rock or mineral is likely to do that? > > Aloha, Kitty (an enthusiastic but non-expert glowhound) > From hammerron at yahoo.com Sat Jan 1 13:40:28 2005 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Sat Jan 1 13:40:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence References: Message-ID: <000f01c4f04a$85b208a0$bf153ccc@aoldsl.net> How about using fluorescence to determine wether a cut ruby is synthetic or natural?...how about an older stone? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 2:00 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > Hi Margaret & Don & Pete & all > > I don't think that fluorescence is a consistent tool for mineral > determination. Maybe some exeptions: scheelite/powelite, ruby, > uranium-minerals and to some degree perhaps diamond and zircon. > > Looking at a fluorescent mineral under all wavelengths at the same time > would be poor entertainment... Some specific typical reactions, like that of > tugtupite or Terlingua type calcite would remain unnoticed. > I believe however that we may yet be surprised if some clever enineer were > to fill the gap between LW and MW (about 320 to 340 nm) and the ap between > SW ad MW (say 255 nm - 300 nm). > Also a good blue light source, but that can be done with LED's now. > I'm in favor of separate narrow band sources that may reveal multiple > responses in a mineral... we can always light'm up at once... > > Cheers > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm > Verzonden: vrijdag 31 december 2004 19:58 > Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > > I agree, Axel. It IS a continuous spectrum. Who knows, maybe the great > majority of minerals do excite at some wavelength, perhaps very narrow. It > we had light of all wavelengths at our disposal, and with means to make the > band very narrow, perhaps it could turn out to be a good and simple means of > identifying many minerals! > > Or am I way out in left field? > > Margaret > > ----I think we should look upon UV as a continuous spectrum in which many > minerals have there optimal exiting band of wavelengths. We have only three > narrow bands at our disposal... > > Cheers > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Peter J. Modreski > Verzonden: woensdag 29 december 2004 19:14 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > > Brenda, > > Most rubies fluoresce red, under long-wave ultraviolet light; an exception > among minerals, because long-wave UV lamps are the less expensive kind. > Some rubies are brighter than others. Yes, you should get a lamp and check > out all your ruby crystals! > > One of many good places to start for more information is the Fluorescent > Mineral Society website, > > http://www.uvminerals.org/ > > Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brenda LaCroix" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:56 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Minedat > > > > > NO....I have never put a blacklight on it.....should I?!?!?!? > > > > What would I be looking for if I did....LOL!!! I have read that rubies > can flouresce (sp?), is that right?? Is that what I would > > be looking for?? > > > > Where does one go about getting a blacklight, or finding someone who has > one that I could use momentarily?? I certainly wouldn't > > need to buy one, would I??? Or maybe it is something that is needed to be > a rockhound?? hehehe!!! > > > > Very interested..... > > Brenda > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Jan 1 16:23:36 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Jan 1 16:22:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence References: Message-ID: <41D73EC6.5666@Tomaszewski.net> Throw together a carbon arc light and a transmission grating spectrograph. You could then use whatever part of the spectrum that interested you to excite your fluorescent mineral specimens. Kreigh Axel Emmermann wrote: > > Hi Margaret & Don & Pete & all > > I don't think that fluorescence is a consistent tool for mineral > determination. Maybe some exeptions: scheelite/powelite, ruby, > uranium-minerals and to some degree perhaps diamond and zircon. > > Looking at a fluorescent mineral under all wavelengths at the same time > would be poor entertainment... Some specific typical reactions, like that of > tugtupite or Terlingua type calcite would remain unnoticed. > I believe however that we may yet be surprised if some clever enineer were > to fill the gap between LW and MW (about 320 to 340 nm) and the ap between > SW ad MW (say 255 nm - 300 nm). > Also a good blue light source, but that can be done with LED's now. > I'm in favor of separate narrow band sources that may reveal multiple > responses in a mineral... we can always light'm up at once... > > Cheers > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm > Verzonden: vrijdag 31 december 2004 19:58 > Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > I agree, Axel. It IS a continuous spectrum. Who knows, maybe the great > majority of minerals do excite at some wavelength, perhaps very narrow. It > we had light of all wavelengths at our disposal, and with means to make the > band very narrow, perhaps it could turn out to be a good and simple means of > identifying many minerals! > > Or am I way out in left field? > > Margaret > > ----I think we should look upon UV as a continuous spectrum in which many > minerals have there optimal exiting band of wavelengths. We have only three > narrow bands at our disposal... > > Cheers > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Peter J. Modreski > Verzonden: woensdag 29 december 2004 19:14 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > Brenda, > > Most rubies fluoresce red, under long-wave ultraviolet light; an exception > among minerals, because long-wave UV lamps are the less expensive kind. > Some rubies are brighter than others. Yes, you should get a lamp and check > out all your ruby crystals! > > One of many good places to start for more information is the Fluorescent > Mineral Society website, > > http://www.uvminerals.org/ > > Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brenda LaCroix" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:56 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Minedat > > > NO....I have never put a blacklight on it.....should I?!?!?!? > > > > What would I be looking for if I did....LOL!!! I have read that rubies > can flouresce (sp?), is that right?? Is that what I would > > be looking for?? > > > > Where does one go about getting a blacklight, or finding someone who has > one that I could use momentarily?? I certainly wouldn't > > need to buy one, would I??? Or maybe it is something that is needed to be > a rockhound?? hehehe!!! > > > > Very interested..... > > Brenda From morningstar at att.net Sat Jan 1 16:28:29 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Sat Jan 1 16:26:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: <000f01c4f04a$85b208a0$bf153ccc@aoldsl.net> References: <000f01c4f04a$85b208a0$bf153ccc@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: <41D7402D.4080207@att.net> The Hammer wrote: > How about using fluorescence to determine wether a cut ruby is synthetic or > natural?...how about an older stone? Good idea, but first, you'd need to establish a logical baseline. For example, are all rubies consistent? (Inconsistency is the biggest problem with fluorescence, though sometimes inconsistencies can be helpful, though we won't discuss that at the moment). Or, perhaps, are all rubies from a particular locality consistent? I believe that ruby is chromium-activated, and if that is the case, the variations in content that give various rubies their color and quality would also vary their luminescence. Then, we'd need to determine what all synthetic rubies look like under UV, and whether they are consistent either across the board or at least by manufacturer. We may find that there is either no difference, or there are too many inconsistencies, in which case this noble idea won't be useful. On the other hand, we might find it is very helpful indeed. At the moment I don't have access to the GEOREF service, so I can't search all the refereed literature to see what has been done in this regard. The Gemological Institute of America might have related info, since they would be the most likely organization to have a financial motivation to do this kind of research. In fact, I have seen GIA-certified diamond descriptions that include the diamond's fluorescence. Don From morningstar at att.net Sat Jan 1 16:54:03 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Sat Jan 1 16:52:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41D7462B.6040905@att.net> Axel Emmermann wrote: > I believe however that we may yet be surprised if some clever enineer were > to fill the gap between LW and MW (about 320 to 340 nm) and the ap between > SW ad MW (say 255 nm - 300 nm). Well, I certainly don't want to discourage the effort, but as I pointed out in the earlier post, I never noticed any difference when running excitation scans; that is, I didn't see any reactions that weren't covered by the "big four" wavelengths. Of course, there are hundreds of fluorescent responses, so until we check an example of each and every known fl. species/locality combination, we won't be 100% certain that there aren't any surprises in this area. My man Axel, aren't you a chemist in real life? Perhaps somewhere in the company is a UV-VIS spectrophotometer? Perhaps Dr. Vochten or van Tassel has access to one? Then you can tune your excitation wavelength to whatever you want. Don From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Jan 1 16:53:39 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Jan 1 16:52:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question References: <20041231185743.CDE69CBA5EB@delivery.infowest.com> <6.1.2.0.0.20050101093356.03423580@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <41D745CC.450D@Tomaszewski.net> Kitty, I think it would be just as likely to be caused by bacteria living on/in the walls of the wet cave environment; if you took some home it would glow only until it dried out and the bacteria died. If there were a mineral with those attributes I think it would be well known in the collecting community. Kreigh Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > Here's a question about fluorescence (that may serve to further convince > people of my ignorance): > > A couple of years ago I took a public tour of a cave in central > Pennsylvania not far from Penn State U. (while Bill was at an astronomy > conference). At one point the guide turned off the dim lights that > illuminated the cave and took her large flashlight and pressed it against > the wall of the cave. It was an ordinary incandescent flashlight. After > about 10 or 15 seconds she turned off the flashlight and there was a circle > of phosphorescence glowing from the wall where the light had been. She > said something like, "I discovered this by accident, and I'm sorry to say > I've never found out what causes it." > > Bill (my resident astronomer) tells me that phosphorescence from ordinary > incandescent light is not terribly unusual. But I'd never seen it before > in cave or mine walls or any of our mineral specimens. So my question is, > what kind of rock or mineral is likely to do that? > > Aloha, Kitty (an enthusiastic but non-expert glowhound) > > At 09:00 AM 1/1/2005, you wrote: > > >Hi Margaret & Don & Pete & all > > > >I don't think that fluorescence is a consistent tool for mineral > >determination. Maybe some exeptions: scheelite/powelite, ruby, > >uranium-minerals and to some degree perhaps diamond and zircon. > > > >Looking at a fluorescent mineral under all wavelengths at the same time > >would be poor entertainment... Some specific typical reactions, like that of > >tugtupite or Terlingua type calcite would remain unnoticed. > >I believe however that we may yet be surprised if some clever enineer were > >to fill the gap between LW and MW (about 320 to 340 nm) and the ap between > >SW ad MW (say 255 nm - 300 nm). > >Also a good blue light source, but that can be done with LED's now. > >I'm in favor of separate narrow band sources that may reveal multiple > >responses in a mineral... we can always light'm up at once... > > > >Cheers > > > >Axel > > > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > >Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm > >Verzonden: vrijdag 31 december 2004 19:58 > >Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >collectors' > >Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > > > > >I agree, Axel. It IS a continuous spectrum. Who knows, maybe the great > >majority of minerals do excite at some wavelength, perhaps very narrow. It > >we had light of all wavelengths at our disposal, and with means to make the > >band very narrow, perhaps it could turn out to be a good and simple means of > >identifying many minerals! > > > >Or am I way out in left field? > > > >Margaret > > > >----I think we should look upon UV as a continuous spectrum in which many > >minerals have there optimal exiting band of wavelengths. We have only three > >narrow bands at our disposal... > > > >Cheers > >Axel > > > > > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > >Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Peter J. Modreski > >Verzonden: woensdag 29 december 2004 19:14 > >Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > >Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > > > > >Brenda, > > > >Most rubies fluoresce red, under long-wave ultraviolet light; an exception > >among minerals, because long-wave UV lamps are the less expensive kind. > >Some rubies are brighter than others. Yes, you should get a lamp and check > >out all your ruby crystals! > > > >One of many good places to start for more information is the Fluorescent > >Mineral Society website, > > > >http://www.uvminerals.org/ > > > >Pete > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Brenda LaCroix" > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > >Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:56 AM > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Minedat > > > > > > > > > NO....I have never put a blacklight on it.....should I?!?!?!? > > > > > > What would I be looking for if I did....LOL!!! I have read that rubies > >can flouresce (sp?), is that right?? Is that what I would > > > be looking for?? > > > > > > Where does one go about getting a blacklight, or finding someone who has > >one that I could use momentarily?? I certainly wouldn't > > > need to buy one, would I??? Or maybe it is something that is needed to be > >a rockhound?? hehehe!!! > > > > > > Very interested..... > > > Brenda From morningstar at att.net Sat Jan 1 17:06:55 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Sat Jan 1 17:04:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20050101093356.03423580@mail.aloha.net> References: <20041231185743.CDE69CBA5EB@delivery.infowest.com> <6.1.2.0.0.20050101093356.03423580@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <41D7492F.80209@att.net> Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > Bill (my resident astronomer) tells me that phosphorescence from > ordinary incandescent light is not terribly unusual. But I'd never seen > it before in cave or mine walls or any of our mineral specimens. So my > question is, what kind of rock or mineral is likely to do that? Sounds like cave aragonite to me; of course, the flashlight emits white light, which contains a blue component, which may have been the source of excitation. I have seen a number of aragonites exhibit a fairly long-duration phosphorescence (several seconds at least, lingering slowly into extinction), and this is a common response. However, as Pete quoted me as saying (so I suppose I'm quoting myself again), there may or may not be any literature on this in the mineralogical community. It has little or no economic value, at least to a mineralogist, and it's not good material for a thesis nor even an article in American or Canadian Mineralogist. Sorry I don't have more to offer in this regard. I chuckled at Pete's comment; declaring that something is likely "a lattice defect" seems to be a frequent explanation for luminescence phenomena when no certain cause exists. Defect Don From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Sat Jan 1 17:35:30 2005 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn's Mail) Date: Sat Jan 1 17:35:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question References: <20041231185743.CDE69CBA5EB@delivery.infowest.com><6.1.2.0.0.20050101093356.03423580@mail.aloha.net> <41D745CC.450D@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <003d01c4f06b$58303de0$6601a8c0@GlennWimpee> What causes the flourescent glow in toys like frisbies that glow in the dark? For sure you can "recharge" those by holding close to any bright light source. Just wondering if it could be the same thing Kitty saw in the cave. Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 6:53 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question > Kitty, > > I think it would be just as likely to be caused by bacteria living on/in > the walls of the wet cave environment; if you took some home it would > glow only until it dried out and the bacteria died. > > If there were a mineral with those attributes I think it would be well > known in the collecting community. > > Kreigh > > > > > Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > > > Here's a question about fluorescence (that may serve to further convince > > people of my ignorance): > > > > A couple of years ago I took a public tour of a cave in central > > Pennsylvania not far from Penn State U. (while Bill was at an astronomy > > conference). At one point the guide turned off the dim lights that > > illuminated the cave and took her large flashlight and pressed it against > > the wall of the cave. It was an ordinary incandescent flashlight. After > > about 10 or 15 seconds she turned off the flashlight and there was a circle > > of phosphorescence glowing from the wall where the light had been. She > > said something like, "I discovered this by accident, and I'm sorry to say > > I've never found out what causes it." > > > > Bill (my resident astronomer) tells me that phosphorescence from ordinary > > incandescent light is not terribly unusual. But I'd never seen it before > > in cave or mine walls or any of our mineral specimens. So my question is, > > what kind of rock or mineral is likely to do that? > > > > Aloha, Kitty (an enthusiastic but non-expert glowhound) > > > > At 09:00 AM 1/1/2005, you wrote: > > > > >Hi Margaret & Don & Pete & all > > > > > >I don't think that fluorescence is a consistent tool for mineral > > >determination. Maybe some exeptions: scheelite/powelite, ruby, > > >uranium-minerals and to some degree perhaps diamond and zircon. > > > > > >Looking at a fluorescent mineral under all wavelengths at the same time > > >would be poor entertainment... Some specific typical reactions, like that of > > >tugtupite or Terlingua type calcite would remain unnoticed. > > >I believe however that we may yet be surprised if some clever enineer were > > >to fill the gap between LW and MW (about 320 to 340 nm) and the ap between > > >SW ad MW (say 255 nm - 300 nm). > > >Also a good blue light source, but that can be done with LED's now. > > >I'm in favor of separate narrow band sources that may reveal multiple > > >responses in a mineral... we can always light'm up at once... > > > > > >Cheers > > > > > >Axel > > > > > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > >Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm > > >Verzonden: vrijdag 31 december 2004 19:58 > > >Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > >collectors' > > >Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > > > > > > > >I agree, Axel. It IS a continuous spectrum. Who knows, maybe the great > > >majority of minerals do excite at some wavelength, perhaps very narrow. It > > >we had light of all wavelengths at our disposal, and with means to make the > > >band very narrow, perhaps it could turn out to be a good and simple means of > > >identifying many minerals! > > > > > >Or am I way out in left field? > > > > > >Margaret > > > > > >----I think we should look upon UV as a continuous spectrum in which many > > >minerals have there optimal exiting band of wavelengths. We have only three > > >narrow bands at our disposal... > > > > > >Cheers > > >Axel > > > > > > > > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > >Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Peter J. Modreski > > >Verzonden: woensdag 29 december 2004 19:14 > > >Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > >Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > > > > > > > >Brenda, > > > > > >Most rubies fluoresce red, under long-wave ultraviolet light; an exception > > >among minerals, because long-wave UV lamps are the less expensive kind. > > >Some rubies are brighter than others. Yes, you should get a lamp and check > > >out all your ruby crystals! > > > > > >One of many good places to start for more information is the Fluorescent > > >Mineral Society website, > > > > > >http://www.uvminerals.org/ > > > > > >Pete > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Brenda LaCroix" > > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:56 AM > > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Minedat > > > > > > > > > > > > > NO....I have never put a blacklight on it.....should I?!?!?!? > > > > > > > > What would I be looking for if I did....LOL!!! I have read that rubies > > >can flouresce (sp?), is that right?? Is that what I would > > > > be looking for?? > > > > > > > > Where does one go about getting a blacklight, or finding someone who has > > >one that I could use momentarily?? I certainly wouldn't > > > > need to buy one, would I??? Or maybe it is something that is needed to be > > >a rockhound?? hehehe!!! > > > > > > > > Very interested..... > > > > Brenda > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rocks4u at prodigy.net Sat Jan 1 17:48:52 2005 From: rocks4u at prodigy.net (rocks4u@prodigy.net) Date: Sat Jan 1 17:51:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence References: Message-ID: <001b01c4f06d$36980350$8291fea9@WesMedion1918> You are probably right as it more than likely requires a variable filter which would be IMHO too costly. However, the fellow at the site I sent you to is creative and it wouldn't hurt to ask him; perhaps you already have. Cheers! Wes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 11:04 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence >I doubt if he can make a lamp with max output at 320-350nm and 255-300 nm > ;-))) > > There lies the problem. > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens rocks4u@prodigy.net > Verzonden: vrijdag 31 december 2004 18:33 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > > You can exactly what you want at http://www.fluorescents.com/ If he > doesn't have the exact item he can make it for you. > Cheers! > Wes > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Axel Emmermann" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 7:45 AM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > >> Hi Pete, >> >>>now we can argue about how many minerals do which! But wouldn't >>>you still say that, "on average", there aren't nearly as many minerals >>>that >>>fl. brightly under LW, and SW? >> >> Yes that is true and also quite logical... >> >>>(Of course, I'm always biased by the >>>preponderance of Franklin/Sterling Hill specimens in displays or >>>collections, most of which need SW to fluoresce brightly.) >> >> Some of the F/SH calcites respond with a weird violet fluorescence under >> LW >> (blacklight with woods glass mantle, unfiltered). You'd miss that if you >> would limit yourself to SW only ;-)))) >> >> >>>And to be honest, although I have a MW lamp, I really don't use it all >>>that >>>much, and I don't look at as many of my specimens with it as I should. >> When >>>I bought it I got one (made by UVP) that is just MW; if I had to do it >>>again, I'd get one that was one bulb SW, one bulb MW; then I'd toggle >>>back >>>and forth to MW after using the SW lamp, and I'll bet I'd use it a lot >> more. >> >> My MW lamp is still in disassembled state... I cannibalized it for the >> display of our annual show. I distinctly remember however that most of my >> specimens (both in the LW and SW display) went completely bananas under >> MW. >> My Chinese scheelite fluoresces medium bright tan under SW while light >> blue >> under SW and weak brown under LW... Powellite fluoresces MUCH stronger in >> MW >> than in SW... So does cupro-scheelite. >> >> On of these days I'll call my cousin-in-law. He has some contacts at one >> of >> the major lamp manufacturers. It would be interesting to design a custom >> filled halogen lamp with added salts and gases to pump up the volume and >> bandwidth of the output UV. >> Remember, ours is a community without established rights in UV-land... we >> thrive by the grace of other users with specific needs (curing of ink, >> disinfections, skin treatment, water purification, etc). There are no >> lamps >> or phosphors especially made for us. There are only reasonably good >> approximations of what we need thanks to clever manufacturers... >> I think we would welcome a set of say 3 lamps that range from 380 nm to >> 254.6 without gaps. I know I would ;-))) >> >> Cheers >> >> Axel >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From morningstar at att.net Sat Jan 1 18:14:15 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Sat Jan 1 18:12:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question In-Reply-To: <003d01c4f06b$58303de0$6601a8c0@GlennWimpee> References: <20041231185743.CDE69CBA5EB@delivery.infowest.com><6.1.2.0.0.20050101093356.03423580@mail.aloha.net> <41D745CC.450D@Tomaszewski.net> <003d01c4f06b$58303de0$6601a8c0@GlennWimpee> Message-ID: <41D758F7.3010306@att.net> Glenn's Mail wrote: > What causes the flourescent glow in toys like frisbies that glow in the > dark? > > For sure you can "recharge" those by holding close to any bright light > source. > > Just wondering if it could be the same thing Kitty saw in the cave. Well, technically, that's phosphorescence, but the principle is quite similar. In the bad old days, these results could be obtained from radioactive salts, such as were used in radium-dial watches. Now, they are more benign compounds. Here are some search results, if you want to deal with the technical reading (I think it is well worth the time): http://www.duracorp.com/Articles/GlowAndBehold.htm http://www.readysetglo.com/Faq_Glowpowders.asp Enjoy, and make your own!!! Don From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Sat Jan 1 18:29:47 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Sat Jan 1 18:29:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Red, White and Blue Message-ID: <41D75C9B.20508@tenforward.com> 1/1/2005 Red, White and Blue By John Cornish j&gcornish@tenforward.com Hi Everyone, Many collectors are aware of the famous Spruce Mine here in Washington State for its production of world class quartz and pyrite combination specimens. This mine is located within a very wild and mountainous area of King County and this area has several other breccias which additionally produce specimens. All are under private claim and all require an intensive assault to reach. About a decade ago, I and 5 other buddies got together to purchase our own mining claim. We purchased the Big Chief. At the time of my buying into the claim, I'd never even been there. But while sight unseen, I had seen a pockets specimens as collected by another local and had been duly impressed. His pocket produced (among other things) 2 killer flattish plates about 3 inches wide by 7 inches long whose surfaces were completely covered in a sparkling forest of 2 inch clear scepters. They were stellar and perfect and I was excited about the possibilities! Soon thereafter, when I finally did make my first trip in, I fairly buzzed with excitement. Our claim is accessed through a combination of trail and bushwhacking. Only a small portion of which is level, the rest... what's that word, oh ya, vertical, the rest is near vertical! The claim and its breccia are all in a sheer walled canyon and we have numerous areas covered in ropes so as to allow a somewhat safe crossing and climb. But back in these earliest days, it was just hang on for dear life. Pockets were to be found with some searching and hard work. Lots of big bars, sledgehammers and chisel time, but the rewards, they are so very sweet. On my first trip in, I was fortunate to find my very own pocket and what a killer it was... But, before I continue, a bit about me. I like leaving the flats behind, if its sheer, most will avoid it. But what the heck, if I can hold my hammer in my teeth and wedge my chisel and my screwdriver in my pockets, I can get there and leave the others behind. So, while my other partners contented themselves with treasures below (and found among other things, two 5 foot pockets within the same distance apart which yielded small 1 inch crystals with fluorescent phantoms; one 4 foot pocket with 1 inch crystals tipped by reverse amethyst scepters; a series of pockets which produced up to 1.5 inch scepters surrounded by a matrix covering of minute japan-law twins; etc.) I headed up high for what I hoped would be unsearched ground. I was ascending, scrambling for hand holds and was just about to quit this foolishness when I spotted twenty feet above me a lip of rock studded with upward projecting quartz crystals. With renewed vigor, I crammed my fingers into the rock and pulled myself up. Just below the quartz crystal jag the rock kind of benched out a bit and there was a smallish tree rooted into a crack, this became my base camp while I exploited my pocket. So, here I am, hanging on an exposed face with my pack tangled up in the limbs of this scrawny twig of a tree and salivating and all glittery eyed with treasure mere feet away. I took out my day pack and slung it from a normal position on my back to my chest and put my tools within mixed with a wad of wrapping material and began my final ascent up to the pocket. I hope I always remember this day. The feeling of my heart thumping in my throat, the slick sheen of sweat that made my hands a bit clammy on the rock and that overwhelming thrill of expectations realized when with a last grunt I pulled myself up to a level where I could look into the pocket for the very first time, the first person ever to do so and what a sight it was. The pocket was split into two side by side chambers, both exposed to the elements. The closest, and the one whose edge plate I'd seen and which had led me there was about 3.5 feet across and a foot plus tall and deep and the other was about 2 by 1 by 1 foot and both were treasure houses of crystalline beauty. The walls were studded with outward projecting quartz crystals exceptionally up to 4 inches in length. All of the crystals had a bright white phantom zone within them, some of which I'd learn later would fluoresce. But before I worked these ceiling and wall plates out, there was the gravy collecting to do as on the floors of both pockets lay several perfect, pristine plates which were complete floaters. I just reached in and lifted them up, their backsides a forest of smaller crystals. This was awesome. My first trip up the mountain and I'd found a real killer pocket, how cool was this? Soon thereafter, reality set back in and the work began. One word while I worked which was always formost in my mind was safety, after all, as far as I was concerned my time on this mortal coil had yet to finish and I wanted to hang out for awhile more. But as carefully as I worked, as safe as I was, I still had a few problems and while I'm not very happy or proud about it, I am happy to say that it was the crystals that learned to fly a time or two that day and not me! My biggest loss here was not crystals however, but was almost my wedding ring. Here let me explain, with all the sweating and pounding, with all the grit and grunge that covered my hands, I developed a big blood blister behind my wedding band. It became an irritant and finally I pulled my ring up to the crease of my knuckle and didn't think another thought of it until just a bit later I flung out and shook my hand of dirt and heard the faint, though very unmistakable sound of my wedding ring bouncing off the rock and falling away. Now to be sure, this was not a good thing, but even more, a sheer face is not the place to just fling yourself out from to follow anything, wedding ring or not! But, luck was with me that day as neither the ring nor I were lost. The ring bouncing down the wall lodged somehow miraculously against my gear at the base of that scrawny tree. What luck! I still remember taking a break afterwards to just settle my heart down and relax a bit. The tension builds up so subtly until one realizes their shoulders are knots and their teeth are clenched. A sandwich never tasted so good or water so sweet as when we're living life to its fullest. I collected 3 full backpacks of material from these two pockets before I was done with them and made as many trips hauling treasure, knuckles dragging under the weight. After this, I made several more trips and have managed some fairly decent finds over the years. Lots of phantom quartz (white, blue, green, black, red) and lots of inclusion quartz's too (pyrite, hematite, clay, actinolite, barite), occasional pyrite octahedrons (most are altered to limonite pseudomorphs after pyrite due to their near surface exposures) and a few other odds and ends (limonite pseudomorphs after calcite and ankerite, barite macro crystals and brookite and anatase micro crystals) have complimented my quartz which has ranged from long and slender to fat and stumpy, from japan law twins to both scepters and reverse scepters. Wonderful times and experiences complimented by wonderful treasures, but are the best pieces from the claim my own? No, in my opinion they belong to one of my partners and these treasures did not come from a pocket, but rather were found loose on one of the small benches which scar the canyon walls. Here he found 4 loose crystals gathered among the gravel and moss whose like I and no others have yet recovered, they are colorlessly clear quartz except for three phantoms which from the termination down alternate from Red to White to Blue! All American crystals if ever I've heard of any and as pretty as ever one could ask for. And so here we are, the 1st of January in a new year. I've been reading a bit on the net this morning while the house is quiet and everyone else is still asleep and have enjoyed several stories where folks have shared their discoveries and the joys they've experienced while pursuing this fantastic hobby of ours and thought I'd share my own tale to begin the year (in one of these stories, the fellow had collected some massive quartz showing red, white and blue coloration and it got me thinking...). I sure love this hobby gone mad and wish you all a wonderful year of exciting discoveries. All the very best and Happy New Year! John --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Jan 1 18:47:16 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Jan 1 18:45:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question References: <20041231185743.CDE69CBA5EB@delivery.infowest.com><6.1.2.0.0.20050101093356.03423580@mail.aloha.net> <41D745CC.450D@Tomaszewski.net> <003d01c4f06b$58303de0$6601a8c0@GlennWimpee> Message-ID: <41D7605D.55AF@Tomaszewski.net> Photoluminescent pigments, mostly made from rare earth compounds, are imbedded in the plastic. You can buy them in bulk from http://www.theindigoedge.com/Glow1.htm (and I am sure many other fine speciality firms - I happened to know of them from an odd search hit that I bookmarked; I have never been a customer) and mix them with paint, ink, plastics, glass, resins, rubber, etc to make all kinds of things that glow. Think what you could make with that coloring the output of your 3D printer. Kreigh Glenn's Mail wrote: > > What causes the flourescent glow in toys like frisbies that glow in the > dark? > > For sure you can "recharge" those by holding close to any bright light > source. > > Just wondering if it could be the same thing Kitty saw in the cave. > > Glenn > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 6:53 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question > > > Kitty, > > > > I think it would be just as likely to be caused by bacteria living on/in > > the walls of the wet cave environment; if you took some home it would > > glow only until it dried out and the bacteria died. > > > > If there were a mineral with those attributes I think it would be well > > known in the collecting community. > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > > > > > Here's a question about fluorescence (that may serve to further convince > > > people of my ignorance): > > > > > > A couple of years ago I took a public tour of a cave in central > > > Pennsylvania not far from Penn State U. (while Bill was at an astronomy > > > conference). At one point the guide turned off the dim lights that > > > illuminated the cave and took her large flashlight and pressed it > against > > > the wall of the cave. It was an ordinary incandescent flashlight. > After > > > about 10 or 15 seconds she turned off the flashlight and there was a > circle > > > of phosphorescence glowing from the wall where the light had been. She > > > said something like, "I discovered this by accident, and I'm sorry to > say > > > I've never found out what causes it." > > > > > > Bill (my resident astronomer) tells me that phosphorescence from > ordinary > > > incandescent light is not terribly unusual. But I'd never seen it > before > > > in cave or mine walls or any of our mineral specimens. So my question > is, > > > what kind of rock or mineral is likely to do that? > > > > > > Aloha, Kitty (an enthusiastic but non-expert glowhound) > > > > > > At 09:00 AM 1/1/2005, you wrote: > > > > > > >Hi Margaret & Don & Pete & all > > > > > > > >I don't think that fluorescence is a consistent tool for mineral > > > >determination. Maybe some exeptions: scheelite/powelite, ruby, > > > >uranium-minerals and to some degree perhaps diamond and zircon. > > > > > > > >Looking at a fluorescent mineral under all wavelengths at the same time > > > >would be poor entertainment... Some specific typical reactions, like > that of > > > >tugtupite or Terlingua type calcite would remain unnoticed. > > > >I believe however that we may yet be surprised if some clever enineer > were > > > >to fill the gap between LW and MW (about 320 to 340 nm) and the ap > between > > > >SW ad MW (say 255 nm - 300 nm). > > > >Also a good blue light source, but that can be done with LED's now. > > > >I'm in favor of separate narrow band sources that may reveal multiple > > > >responses in a mineral... we can always light'm up at once... > > > > > > > >Cheers > > > > > > > >Axel > > > > > > > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > > >Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm > > > >Verzonden: vrijdag 31 december 2004 19:58 > > > >Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > > >collectors' > > > >Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > > > > > > > > > > >I agree, Axel. It IS a continuous spectrum. Who knows, maybe the great > > > >majority of minerals do excite at some wavelength, perhaps very narrow. > It > > > >we had light of all wavelengths at our disposal, and with means to make > the > > > >band very narrow, perhaps it could turn out to be a good and simple > means of > > > >identifying many minerals! > > > > > > > >Or am I way out in left field? > > > > > > > >Margaret > > > > > > > >----I think we should look upon UV as a continuous spectrum in which > many > > > >minerals have there optimal exiting band of wavelengths. We have only > three > > > >narrow bands at our disposal... > > > > > > > >Cheers > > > >Axel > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > > >Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Peter J. Modreski > > > >Verzonden: woensdag 29 december 2004 19:14 > > > >Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > > >Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > > > > > > > > > > >Brenda, > > > > > > > >Most rubies fluoresce red, under long-wave ultraviolet light; an > exception > > > >among minerals, because long-wave UV lamps are the less expensive kind. > > > >Some rubies are brighter than others. Yes, you should get a lamp and > check > > > >out all your ruby crystals! > > > > > > > >One of many good places to start for more information is the > Fluorescent > > > >Mineral Society website, > > > > > > > >http://www.uvminerals.org/ > > > > > > > >Pete > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: "Brenda LaCroix" > > > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > > > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:56 AM > > > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Minedat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NO....I have never put a blacklight on it.....should I?!?!?!? > > > > > > > > > > What would I be looking for if I did....LOL!!! I have read that > rubies > > > >can flouresce (sp?), is that right?? Is that what I would > > > > > be looking for?? > > > > > > > > > > Where does one go about getting a blacklight, or finding someone who > has > > > >one that I could use momentarily?? I certainly wouldn't > > > > > need to buy one, would I??? Or maybe it is something that is needed > to be > > > >a rockhound?? hehehe!!! > > > > > > > > > > Very interested..... > > > > > Brenda From kahako at aloha.net Sat Jan 1 19:17:39 2005 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Jan 1 18:47:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Red, White and Blue In-Reply-To: <41D75C9B.20508@tenforward.com> References: <41D75C9B.20508@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20050101171205.041b3eb0@mail.aloha.net> Wonderful story, John. I wish you could clone copies of those red, white & blue crystals for everyone on the List! Do you have a picture that you could post somewhere so we could see them? Thanks again for sharing your always well-written adventures. Aloha, and the very best to you and Gloria for the New Year. Kitty (& Bill) At 04:29 PM 1/1/2005, you wrote: >1/1/2005 > >Red, White and Blue > >By John Cornish >j&gcornish@tenforward.com > > > >Hi Everyone, > >Many collectors are aware of the famous Spruce Mine here in Washington >State for its production of world class quartz and pyrite combination >specimens. This mine is located within a very wild and mountainous area of >King County and this area has several other breccias which additionally >produce specimens. All are under private claim and all require an >intensive assault to reach. About a decade ago, I and 5 other buddies got >together to purchase our own mining claim. We purchased the Big Chief. At >the time of my buying into the claim, I'd never even been there. But while >sight unseen, I had seen a pockets specimens as collected by another local >and had been duly impressed. His pocket produced (among other things) 2 >killer flattish plates about 3 inches wide by 7 inches long whose surfaces >were completely covered in a sparkling forest of 2 inch clear scepters. >They were stellar and perfect and I was excited about the possibilities! > >Soon thereafter, when I finally did make my first trip in, I fairly buzzed >with excitement. Our claim is accessed through a combination of trail and >bushwhacking. Only a small portion of which is level, the rest... what's >that word, oh ya, vertical, the rest is near vertical! The claim and its >breccia are all in a sheer walled canyon and we have numerous areas >covered in ropes so as to allow a somewhat safe crossing and climb. But >back in these earliest days, it was just hang on for dear life. > >Pockets were to be found with some searching and hard work. Lots of big >bars, sledgehammers and chisel time, but the rewards, they are so very >sweet. On my first trip in, I was fortunate to find my very own pocket and >what a killer it was... But, before I continue, a bit about me. I like >leaving the flats behind, if its sheer, most will avoid it. But what the >heck, if I can hold my hammer in my teeth and wedge my chisel and my >screwdriver in my pockets, I can get there and leave the others behind. >So, while my other partners contented themselves with treasures below (and >found among other things, two 5 foot pockets within the same distance >apart which yielded small 1 inch crystals with fluorescent phantoms; one 4 >foot pocket with 1 inch crystals tipped by reverse amethyst scepters; a >series of pockets which produced up to 1.5 inch scepters surrounded by a >matrix covering of minute japan-law twins; etc.) I headed up high for what >I hoped would be unsearched ground. I was ascending, scrambling for hand >holds and was just about to quit this foolishness when I spotted twenty >feet above me a lip of rock studded with upward projecting quartz >crystals. With renewed vigor, I crammed my fingers into the rock and >pulled myself up. Just below the quartz crystal jag the rock kind of >benched out a bit and there was a smallish tree rooted into a crack, this >became my base camp while I exploited my pocket. So, here I am, hanging on >an exposed face with my pack tangled up in the limbs of this scrawny twig >of a tree and salivating and all glittery eyed with treasure mere feet >away. I took out my day pack and slung it from a normal position on my >back to my chest and put my tools within mixed with a wad of wrapping >material and began my final ascent up to the pocket. > >I hope I always remember this day. The feeling of my heart thumping in my >throat, the slick sheen of sweat that made my hands a bit clammy on the >rock and that overwhelming thrill of expectations realized when with a >last grunt I pulled myself up to a level where I could look into the >pocket for the very first time, the first person ever to do so and what a >sight it was. The pocket was split into two side by side chambers, both >exposed to the elements. The closest, and the one whose edge plate I'd >seen and which had led me there was about 3.5 feet across and a foot plus >tall and deep and the other was about 2 by 1 by 1 foot and both were >treasure houses of crystalline beauty. The walls were studded with outward >projecting quartz crystals exceptionally up to 4 inches in length. All of >the crystals had a bright white phantom zone within them, some of which >I'd learn later would fluoresce. But before I worked these ceiling and >wall plates out, there was the gravy collecting to do as on the floors of >both pockets lay several perfect, pristine plates which were complete >floaters. I just reached in and lifted them up, their backsides a forest >of smaller crystals. This was awesome. My first trip up the mountain and >I'd found a real killer pocket, how cool was this? > >Soon thereafter, reality set back in and the work began. One word while I >worked which was always formost in my mind was safety, after all, as far >as I was concerned my time on this mortal coil had yet to finish and I >wanted to hang out for awhile more. But as carefully as I worked, as safe >as I was, I still had a few problems and while I'm not very happy or proud >about it, I am happy to say that it was the crystals that learned to fly a >time or two that day and not me! My biggest loss here was not crystals >however, but was almost my wedding ring. Here let me explain, with all the >sweating and pounding, with all the grit and grunge that covered my hands, >I developed a big blood blister behind my wedding band. It became an >irritant and finally I pulled my ring up to the crease of my knuckle and >didn't think another thought of it until just a bit later I flung out and >shook my hand of dirt and heard the faint, though very unmistakable sound >of my wedding ring bouncing off the rock and falling away. Now to be sure, >this was not a good thing, but even more, a sheer face is not the place to >just fling yourself out from to follow anything, wedding ring or not! But, >luck was with me that day as neither the ring nor I were lost. The ring >bouncing down the wall lodged somehow miraculously against my gear at the >base of that scrawny tree. What luck! I still remember taking a break >afterwards to just settle my heart down and relax a bit. The tension >builds up so subtly until one realizes their shoulders are knots and their >teeth are clenched. A sandwich never tasted so good or water so sweet as >when we're living life to its fullest. > >I collected 3 full backpacks of material from these two pockets before I >was done with them and made as many trips hauling treasure, knuckles >dragging under the weight. After this, I made several more trips and have >managed some fairly decent finds over the years. Lots of phantom quartz >(white, blue, green, black, red) and lots of inclusion quartz's too >(pyrite, hematite, clay, actinolite, barite), occasional pyrite >octahedrons (most are altered to limonite pseudomorphs after pyrite due to >their near surface exposures) and a few other odds and ends (limonite >pseudomorphs after calcite and ankerite, barite macro crystals and >brookite and anatase micro crystals) have complimented my quartz which has >ranged from long and slender to fat and stumpy, from japan law twins to >both scepters and reverse scepters. > >Wonderful times and experiences complimented by wonderful treasures, but >are the best pieces from the claim my own? No, in my opinion they belong >to one of my partners and these treasures did not come from a pocket, but >rather were found loose on one of the small benches which scar the canyon >walls. Here he found 4 loose crystals gathered among the gravel and moss >whose like I and no others have yet recovered, they are colorlessly clear >quartz except for three phantoms which from the termination down alternate >from Red to White to Blue! All American crystals if ever I've heard of any >and as pretty as ever one could ask for. > >And so here we are, the 1st of January in a new year. I've been reading a >bit on the net this morning while the house is quiet and everyone else is >still asleep and have enjoyed several stories where folks have shared >their discoveries and the joys they've experienced while pursuing this >fantastic hobby of ours and thought I'd share my own tale to begin the >year (in one of these stories, the fellow had collected some massive >quartz showing red, white and blue coloration and it got me thinking...). >I sure love this hobby gone mad and wish you all a wonderful year of >exciting discoveries. All the very best and Happy New Year! > >John > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004 From kahako at aloha.net Sat Jan 1 19:44:41 2005 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Jan 1 19:14:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question In-Reply-To: <41D7605D.55AF@Tomaszewski.net> References: <20041231185743.CDE69CBA5EB@delivery.infowest.com> <6.1.2.0.0.20050101093356.03423580@mail.aloha.net> <41D745CC.450D@Tomaszewski.net> <003d01c4f06b$58303de0$6601a8c0@GlennWimpee> <41D7605D.55AF@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20050101173212.041c2a40@mail.aloha.net> I've already suggested to Earl Verbeek that he paint the exterior of the dome for the new observatory at the Sterling Hill Mining Museum with "DayGlo" paints in red and green in a classic calcite/willemite pattern. And at night they could shine a "Superbright" on it once in a while to make it glow...it could probably be seen by a satellite! Aloha, Kitty At 04:47 PM 1/1/2005, you wrote: >Photoluminescent pigments, mostly made from rare earth compounds, are >imbedded in the plastic. You can buy them in bulk from > > http://www.theindigoedge.com/Glow1.htm > >(and I am sure many other fine speciality firms - I happened to know of >them from an odd search hit that I bookmarked; I have never been a >customer) and mix them with paint, ink, plastics, glass, resins, rubber, >etc to make all kinds of things that glow. Think what you could make >with that coloring the output of your 3D printer. > >Kreigh > > > > > >Glenn's Mail wrote: > > > > What causes the flourescent glow in toys like frisbies that glow in the > > dark? > > > > For sure you can "recharge" those by holding close to any bright light > > source. > > > > Just wondering if it could be the same thing Kitty saw in the cave. > > > > Glenn > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 6:53 PM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question > > > > > Kitty, > > > > > > I think it would be just as likely to be caused by bacteria living on/in > > > the walls of the wet cave environment; if you took some home it would > > > glow only until it dried out and the bacteria died. > > > > > > If there were a mineral with those attributes I think it would be well > > > known in the collecting community. > > > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > > > > > > > Here's a question about fluorescence (that may serve to further > convince > > > > people of my ignorance): > > > > > > > > A couple of years ago I took a public tour of a cave in central > > > > Pennsylvania not far from Penn State U. (while Bill was at an astronomy > > > > conference). At one point the guide turned off the dim lights that > > > > illuminated the cave and took her large flashlight and pressed it > > against > > > > the wall of the cave. It was an ordinary incandescent flashlight. > > After > > > > about 10 or 15 seconds she turned off the flashlight and there was a > > circle > > > > of phosphorescence glowing from the wall where the light had been. She > > > > said something like, "I discovered this by accident, and I'm sorry to > > say > > > > I've never found out what causes it." > > > > > > > > Bill (my resident astronomer) tells me that phosphorescence from > > ordinary > > > > incandescent light is not terribly unusual. But I'd never seen it > > before > > > > in cave or mine walls or any of our mineral specimens. So my question > > is, > > > > what kind of rock or mineral is likely to do that? > > > > > > > > Aloha, Kitty (an enthusiastic but non-expert glowhound) > > > > > > > > At 09:00 AM 1/1/2005, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >Hi Margaret & Don & Pete & all > > > > > > > > > >I don't think that fluorescence is a consistent tool for mineral > > > > >determination. Maybe some exeptions: scheelite/powelite, ruby, > > > > >uranium-minerals and to some degree perhaps diamond and zircon. > > > > > > > > > >Looking at a fluorescent mineral under all wavelengths at the same > time > > > > >would be poor entertainment... Some specific typical reactions, like > > that of > > > > >tugtupite or Terlingua type calcite would remain unnoticed. > > > > >I believe however that we may yet be surprised if some clever enineer > > were > > > > >to fill the gap between LW and MW (about 320 to 340 nm) and the ap > > between > > > > >SW ad MW (say 255 nm - 300 nm). > > > > >Also a good blue light source, but that can be done with LED's now. > > > > >I'm in favor of separate narrow band sources that may reveal multiple > > > > >responses in a mineral... we can always light'm up at once... > > > > > > > > > >Cheers > > > > > > > > > >Axel > > > > > > > > > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > > > >Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > > >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm > > > > >Verzonden: vrijdag 31 december 2004 19:58 > > > > >Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > > > >collectors' > > > > >Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I agree, Axel. It IS a continuous spectrum. Who knows, maybe the great > > > > >majority of minerals do excite at some wavelength, perhaps very > narrow. > > It > > > > >we had light of all wavelengths at our disposal, and with means to > make > > the > > > > >band very narrow, perhaps it could turn out to be a good and simple > > means of > > > > >identifying many minerals! > > > > > > > > > >Or am I way out in left field? > > > > > > > > > >Margaret > > > > > > > > > >----I think we should look upon UV as a continuous spectrum in which > > many > > > > >minerals have there optimal exiting band of wavelengths. We have only > > three > > > > >narrow bands at our disposal... > > > > > > > > > >Cheers > > > > >Axel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > > > >Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > > >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Peter J. Modreski > > > > >Verzonden: woensdag 29 december 2004 19:14 > > > > >Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > > > > >Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Brenda, > > > > > > > > > >Most rubies fluoresce red, under long-wave ultraviolet light; an > > exception > > > > >among minerals, because long-wave UV lamps are the less expensive > kind. > > > > >Some rubies are brighter than others. Yes, you should get a lamp and > > check > > > > >out all your ruby crystals! > > > > > > > > > >One of many good places to start for more information is the > > Fluorescent > > > > >Mineral Society website, > > > > > > > > > >http://www.uvminerals.org/ > > > > > > > > > >Pete > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > >From: "Brenda LaCroix" > > > > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors" > > > > > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:56 AM > > > > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Minedat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NO....I have never put a blacklight on it.....should I?!?!?!? > > > > > > > > > > > > What would I be looking for if I did....LOL!!! I have read that > > rubies > > > > >can flouresce (sp?), is that right?? Is that what I would > > > > > > be looking for?? > > > > > > > > > > > > Where does one go about getting a blacklight, or finding > someone who > > has > > > > >one that I could use momentarily?? I certainly wouldn't > > > > > > need to buy one, would I??? Or maybe it is something that is > needed > > to be > > > > >a rockhound?? hehehe!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Very interested..... > > > > > > Brenda >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004 From hptdesigns at charter.net Sat Jan 1 21:51:03 2005 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Sat Jan 1 21:44:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question In-Reply-To: <41D758F7.3010306@att.net> Message-ID: <3k70j8$k6pkec@mxip17a.cluster1.charter.net> I have decided that Don's mission in life should be the distallation of all things fluouescent (concerning minerals) into a 23 1/2 page essay. Tommy > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Don H > Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 9:14 PM > To: Glenn's Mail; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for > rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question > > Glenn's Mail wrote: > > > What causes the flourescent glow in toys like frisbies that glow in > > the dark? > > > > For sure you can "recharge" those by holding close to any > bright light > > source. > > > > Just wondering if it could be the same thing Kitty saw in the cave. > > > Well, technically, that's phosphorescence, but the principle > is quite similar. > > In the bad old days, these results could be obtained from > radioactive salts, such as were used in radium-dial watches. > Now, they are more benign compounds. Here are some search > results, if you want to deal with the technical reading (I > think it is well worth the time): > > http://www.duracorp.com/Articles/GlowAndBehold.htm > > http://www.readysetglo.com/Faq_Glowpowders.asp > > Enjoy, and make your own!!! > > Don > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From hptdesigns at charter.net Sat Jan 1 21:52:57 2005 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Sat Jan 1 21:46:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meaningfull locality data in perspective In-Reply-To: <004801c4ee15$a6b5c230$6901a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: <3k01ib$jlg2mv@mxip19a.cluster1.charter.net> Rock did not get much response to his idea, but I think it has a great deal of merit. I would like to throw out one more suggestion. I think that this undertaking is very analogous to Microsofts knowledge base and develeoper subscription service. Once one subscribes by paying an annual subscription, he has access to the website and all of the material on it. ALSO once a quarter, the developer receives a CD with all the previous stuff up to the date of the CD--that is a cumlative CD. When you get your CD, you simply throw away the other one (or shelve it) as all the current stuff as well as the past stuff is consolidated. Now the beauty of this is that you do not necessarily have to be online to use it, and if Microsoft's website got destroyed, you would still have a copy. Now of course my analogy using MS is a bit far fetched as it will unlikely not go out of business for a long time. But Mindat very well could--after all it is a tremendous amount of work not only from the owner but from all the contributors. The owner has provided a great service for the community, but sooner or later, he will tire of it (or die). Now the problem with this concept would be who would actually create the CD. If all the data could be made available for download by the subscriber, he himself could create his own. Broadband is here to stay for the forseeable future. We are of course talking about data that would probably not fit onto one CD and maybe not a DVD, but I think for the future achiving of this valuable information, some kind of semi-hard copy needs to be created. And the subscriber should be able to obtain one. Even CD's are projected to have to be recopied once every 10 to 100 years now--no one really knows what the life expectancy of the various media are as they are brand new. We do not know what kind of electronic storeage will be used in the future and what type of file formats. This is a very serious problem when talking about archival preservation. What we do know is that the printed word on paper has been known to last at least 500 years (really a lot longer than that). And we do have a good grasp on how to preserve it. The idea Rock has of having this type of resource funded is a very important idea that should be addressed by the community. As much as I use Mindat, I would be willing to pony up. Rock wrote: "The future of all literature is going to be electronic rather than hard copy based. " Now that may or may not be true--but I rather doubt that people will ever want to read Master and Commander curled up in bed with an electronic device or sit on the beach and read Tolstoy on a monitor. The art of literature was created to be read in books--and I for one do not see serious readers of literature forsaking the experience of turning the pages of a book for scrolling around a screen. It is true that much of literature is created on a computer, and transmitted by a computer, and published by a computer, but it is still read in the form of a book. When TV came out, people thought it would put radio and the movies out of business. But going to a movie at a theater is a different experience than watching TV--it is a different media. Just a electronic publishing and book publishing are different media. Electronic publishing is great for information--for filtering--for accessing, but it is not good for reading poetry or a novel. Tommy Armstrong "Creativity is the marvelous capacity to grasp distinct realities and draw a spark from their juxtaposition." Max Ernst > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Rock Currier > Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 9:17 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Meaningfull locality data in perspective > > Yes I realize that the reason that much good mineralogical > descriptive data is lost because there is just not enough > room in magazines or books to accommodate it. Sometimes the > authors of the articles simply don't know about it or have > written the article to pump up some material they have for > sale and are not interested in comparing it in any objective > manner to other specimens of the same species from other > localities. Also, the space in conventional publications > (hard copy) for pictures is quite limited, almost all > articles and books never present a rounded picture of what is > available from a locality. Even when they do, information on > what the best specimens look like is missing and left to the > imagination of the reader. Also, there is rarely information > about how much material has been found. Usually the locality > articles are written by individuals who are in love with the > localities and want to make the locality look as good as > possible, so objectivity suffers. I know I have certainly > been guilty of this pardonable sin. Often the localities are > ancient and no record was kept of what the mine produced in > the way of specimens and there is no one left alive today > that has that kind of information. So we go through life > picking up bits and pieces of specimen lore, struggling to > put in perspective the quality of those specimens we have in > our collections and see in others. It is a painful process. > Typically we see a specimen we like and buy it, only to > discover later that it was not as good as we thought and is > in fact not very good at all. In addition to all that, new > localities come along and completely put in the shade the > specimens from old localities. When this happens, the old > descriptive information, is still there in the literature to > beguile collectors of future generations and mislead them. A > fine example of this is contained in the 4th edition of the > Dana Textbook of Mineralogy. > It describes "...large crystals found in the mercury mines of > New Almaden..." . When you track the reference back it to the > original article in and 1880s American Journal of Science > article it says that they were up to 2 cm. Of course there is > no one in California that I can find that has ever seen any > of these and even if they had, 2 cm apophyllites today are > not very exciting. The literature of today is full of similar > descriptions. > Well, we are not limited today to publishing on paper and > the cost of publishing electronically, even that of images, > is but a tiny fraction of the cost of hard copy material and > the cost of electronic storage is continuing to drop. The > futrue of all literature is going to be electronic rather > than hard copy based. I was told by a professor at the > California Institute of Technology that almost all the > references sited in students in papers that they wrote for > his classes were internet references. We just can't quite > trust the media yet, and perhaps justifiably, like the > comment wondering about the permanance of mindat. I got a > nice reply from the guy who runs min dat out of England and > he makes no money on it but does it as a labor of love. He > makes a living designing web sights and says it helps him > sell his services because prospective clients can look at > something he has designed and that helps sales. It would not > be very much work for him to add the fields needed to > describe all manner of things relating to minerals or > localities with space for related images as well. He says > that people ocasionally make small donations that help pay > for some of the computers, etc to help keep the site running. > What is needed of course is for us (mineral collectors, > dealers, curators etc) to cough up enough money either by > donations or subscriptions to have mindat or some other > website create the necessary fields to record the data we > would like to preserve and then encourage all collectors to > contribute data (peer reviewed probably) that goes into the > fields. This means enough money to pay a full time individual > to oversee the operation, make changes to the database when > needed an to supervise data entry. > Idealy I supose we would like to see a professional > organization like the IMA take over and run the site. It if > was done in the USA, the cost of a full time professional > would be at least $50 K a year plus the cost of office space, > utilities, a computer, broad band connection etc which would > probably cost another $20K per year. Say $75K per year. OK > how do we raise the money. If it was done in a country with > lower wages like Russia, India or China, the cost of labor > would be a lot cheaper. But we shoud probably figure on > setting it up in an English speaking country like Canada, > England or the USA and should probably go with the higher > labor cost. Would you be willing to cough up $10 per month to > use mindat? $5 per month? $100 per year? if you could get > from it what you get now for free plus detailed descriptions > of what the best minerals from most mineral localities looked > like and how they compared to others of their kind? > Rock > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From mikeflan at earthlink.net Sun Jan 2 06:02:31 2005 From: mikeflan at earthlink.net (Mike Flannigan) Date: Sun Jan 2 05:02:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Madrid earthquakes References: <200412291623.iBTGNEhl027451@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <41D7FEF7.52952125@earthlink.net> > Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 19:14:30 -0600 > From: "John Siebel" > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New Madrid earthquakes > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > > When I was at the University of Illinois (1973-74) at Champaign/Urbana we > experienced a small earthquake or tremor. I lived on the 13th floor of an > apartment building. The building swayed, the record skipped and pictures > fell off the wall. Woke me right out of a well deserved nap! I don't know if > the "rift" is active, but the fault still is. > > John Siebel > Santa, Idaho Was that on a Sunday morning? I suspect not. We had an earthquake in St. Louis around that time frame on a Sunday morning. Maybe ours happened 1971 or 1972, I'm not sure. Mike From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Jan 2 05:56:33 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Jan 2 05:56:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20050101173212.041c2a40@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: I vagely recall a movie in which two men in a pitch dark room were, unaware of each other, hopping around with nothing but a glowing condom on. The moment that they bump into each other, their ahem.... "eagerness" evaporates instantly and very visibly... I nearly laughed myself to death with that one! ........ looking it up on Google.......... oh yes: Blake Edwards' Skin Deep. That scene should be reckognized as cultural inheritance for all mankind! ...and probably it should be permanently on display in an endless loop in the TWMF... HILARIOUS. Think about it guys... in the "adult" room behind the black curtain perhaps??? Cheers Axel (naughty for once, hehehehe) -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kitty & Bill Heacox Verzonden: zondag 2 januari 2005 4:45 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question I've already suggested to Earl Verbeek that he paint the exterior of the dome for the new observatory at the Sterling Hill Mining Museum with "DayGlo" paints in red and green in a classic calcite/willemite pattern. And at night they could shine a "Superbright" on it once in a while to make it glow...it could probably be seen by a satellite! Aloha, Kitty At 04:47 PM 1/1/2005, you wrote: >Photoluminescent pigments, mostly made from rare earth compounds, are >imbedded in the plastic. You can buy them in bulk from > > http://www.theindigoedge.com/Glow1.htm > >(and I am sure many other fine speciality firms - I happened to know of >them from an odd search hit that I bookmarked; I have never been a >customer) and mix them with paint, ink, plastics, glass, resins, rubber, >etc to make all kinds of things that glow. Think what you could make >with that coloring the output of your 3D printer. > >Kreigh > > > > > >Glenn's Mail wrote: > > > > What causes the flourescent glow in toys like frisbies that glow in the > > dark? > > > > For sure you can "recharge" those by holding close to any bright light > > source. > > > > Just wondering if it could be the same thing Kitty saw in the cave. > > > > Glenn > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 6:53 PM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question > > > > > Kitty, > > > > > > I think it would be just as likely to be caused by bacteria living on/in > > > the walls of the wet cave environment; if you took some home it would > > > glow only until it dried out and the bacteria died. > > > > > > If there were a mineral with those attributes I think it would be well > > > known in the collecting community. > > > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > > > > > > > Here's a question about fluorescence (that may serve to further > convince > > > > people of my ignorance): > > > > > > > > A couple of years ago I took a public tour of a cave in central > > > > Pennsylvania not far from Penn State U. (while Bill was at an astronomy > > > > conference). At one point the guide turned off the dim lights that > > > > illuminated the cave and took her large flashlight and pressed it > > against > > > > the wall of the cave. It was an ordinary incandescent flashlight. > > After > > > > about 10 or 15 seconds she turned off the flashlight and there was a > > circle > > > > of phosphorescence glowing from the wall where the light had been. She > > > > said something like, "I discovered this by accident, and I'm sorry to > > say > > > > I've never found out what causes it." > > > > > > > > Bill (my resident astronomer) tells me that phosphorescence from > > ordinary > > > > incandescent light is not terribly unusual. But I'd never seen it > > before > > > > in cave or mine walls or any of our mineral specimens. So my question > > is, > > > > what kind of rock or mineral is likely to do that? > > > > > > > > Aloha, Kitty (an enthusiastic but non-expert glowhound) > > > > > > > > At 09:00 AM 1/1/2005, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >Hi Margaret & Don & Pete & all > > > > > > > > > >I don't think that fluorescence is a consistent tool for mineral > > > > >determination. Maybe some exeptions: scheelite/powelite, ruby, > > > > >uranium-minerals and to some degree perhaps diamond and zircon. > > > > > > > > > >Looking at a fluorescent mineral under all wavelengths at the same > time > > > > >would be poor entertainment... Some specific typical reactions, like > > that of > > > > >tugtupite or Terlingua type calcite would remain unnoticed. > > > > >I believe however that we may yet be surprised if some clever enineer > > were > > > > >to fill the gap between LW and MW (about 320 to 340 nm) and the ap > > between > > > > >SW ad MW (say 255 nm - 300 nm). > > > > >Also a good blue light source, but that can be done with LED's now. > > > > >I'm in favor of separate narrow band sources that may reveal multiple > > > > >responses in a mineral... we can always light'm up at once... > > > > > > > > > >Cheers > > > > > > > > > >Axel > > > > > > > > > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > > > >Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > > >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm > > > > >Verzonden: vrijdag 31 december 2004 19:58 > > > > >Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > > > >collectors' > > > > >Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I agree, Axel. It IS a continuous spectrum. Who knows, maybe the great > > > > >majority of minerals do excite at some wavelength, perhaps very > narrow. > > It > > > > >we had light of all wavelengths at our disposal, and with means to > make > > the > > > > >band very narrow, perhaps it could turn out to be a good and simple > > means of > > > > >identifying many minerals! > > > > > > > > > >Or am I way out in left field? > > > > > > > > > >Margaret > > > > > > > > > >----I think we should look upon UV as a continuous spectrum in which > > many > > > > >minerals have there optimal exiting band of wavelengths. We have only > > three > > > > >narrow bands at our disposal... > > > > > > > > > >Cheers > > > > >Axel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > > > >Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > > >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Peter J. Modreski > > > > >Verzonden: woensdag 29 december 2004 19:14 > > > > >Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > > > > >Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Brenda, > > > > > > > > > >Most rubies fluoresce red, under long-wave ultraviolet light; an > > exception > > > > >among minerals, because long-wave UV lamps are the less expensive > kind. > > > > >Some rubies are brighter than others. Yes, you should get a lamp and > > check > > > > >out all your ruby crystals! > > > > > > > > > >One of many good places to start for more information is the > > Fluorescent > > > > >Mineral Society website, > > > > > > > > > >http://www.uvminerals.org/ > > > > > > > > > >Pete > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > >From: "Brenda LaCroix" > > > > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors" > > > > > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:56 AM > > > > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Minedat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NO....I have never put a blacklight on it.....should I?!?!?!? > > > > > > > > > > > > What would I be looking for if I did....LOL!!! I have read that > > rubies > > > > >can flouresce (sp?), is that right?? Is that what I would > > > > > > be looking for?? > > > > > > > > > > > > Where does one go about getting a blacklight, or finding > someone who > > has > > > > >one that I could use momentarily?? I certainly wouldn't > > > > > > need to buy one, would I??? Or maybe it is something that is > needed > > to be > > > > >a rockhound?? hehehe!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Very interested..... > > > > > > Brenda >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004 _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Jan 2 06:00:19 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Jan 2 05:59:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question In-Reply-To: <41D7605D.55AF@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Try this: press a photoflash against a plaster wall (unpainted), close your eyes and push the button (no, the one on the flash, silly). Remove flash from wall and open eyes. That spot may glow for seconds to minutes... Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski Verzonden: zondag 2 januari 2005 3:47 Aan: Glenn's Mail; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question Photoluminescent pigments, mostly made from rare earth compounds, are imbedded in the plastic. You can buy them in bulk from http://www.theindigoedge.com/Glow1.htm (and I am sure many other fine speciality firms - I happened to know of them from an odd search hit that I bookmarked; I have never been a customer) and mix them with paint, ink, plastics, glass, resins, rubber, etc to make all kinds of things that glow. Think what you could make with that coloring the output of your 3D printer. Kreigh Glenn's Mail wrote: > > What causes the flourescent glow in toys like frisbies that glow in the > dark? > > For sure you can "recharge" those by holding close to any bright light > source. > > Just wondering if it could be the same thing Kitty saw in the cave. > > Glenn > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 6:53 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question > > > Kitty, > > > > I think it would be just as likely to be caused by bacteria living on/in > > the walls of the wet cave environment; if you took some home it would > > glow only until it dried out and the bacteria died. > > > > If there were a mineral with those attributes I think it would be well > > known in the collecting community. > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > > > > > Here's a question about fluorescence (that may serve to further convince > > > people of my ignorance): > > > > > > A couple of years ago I took a public tour of a cave in central > > > Pennsylvania not far from Penn State U. (while Bill was at an astronomy > > > conference). At one point the guide turned off the dim lights that > > > illuminated the cave and took her large flashlight and pressed it > against > > > the wall of the cave. It was an ordinary incandescent flashlight. > After > > > about 10 or 15 seconds she turned off the flashlight and there was a > circle > > > of phosphorescence glowing from the wall where the light had been. She > > > said something like, "I discovered this by accident, and I'm sorry to > say > > > I've never found out what causes it." > > > > > > Bill (my resident astronomer) tells me that phosphorescence from > ordinary > > > incandescent light is not terribly unusual. But I'd never seen it > before > > > in cave or mine walls or any of our mineral specimens. So my question > is, > > > what kind of rock or mineral is likely to do that? > > > > > > Aloha, Kitty (an enthusiastic but non-expert glowhound) > > > > > > At 09:00 AM 1/1/2005, you wrote: > > > > > > >Hi Margaret & Don & Pete & all > > > > > > > >I don't think that fluorescence is a consistent tool for mineral > > > >determination. Maybe some exeptions: scheelite/powelite, ruby, > > > >uranium-minerals and to some degree perhaps diamond and zircon. > > > > > > > >Looking at a fluorescent mineral under all wavelengths at the same time > > > >would be poor entertainment... Some specific typical reactions, like > that of > > > >tugtupite or Terlingua type calcite would remain unnoticed. > > > >I believe however that we may yet be surprised if some clever enineer > were > > > >to fill the gap between LW and MW (about 320 to 340 nm) and the ap > between > > > >SW ad MW (say 255 nm - 300 nm). > > > >Also a good blue light source, but that can be done with LED's now. > > > >I'm in favor of separate narrow band sources that may reveal multiple > > > >responses in a mineral... we can always light'm up at once... > > > > > > > >Cheers > > > > > > > >Axel > > > > > > > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > > >Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm > > > >Verzonden: vrijdag 31 december 2004 19:58 > > > >Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > > >collectors' > > > >Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > > > > > > > > > > >I agree, Axel. It IS a continuous spectrum. Who knows, maybe the great > > > >majority of minerals do excite at some wavelength, perhaps very narrow. > It > > > >we had light of all wavelengths at our disposal, and with means to make > the > > > >band very narrow, perhaps it could turn out to be a good and simple > means of > > > >identifying many minerals! > > > > > > > >Or am I way out in left field? > > > > > > > >Margaret > > > > > > > >----I think we should look upon UV as a continuous spectrum in which > many > > > >minerals have there optimal exiting band of wavelengths. We have only > three > > > >narrow bands at our disposal... > > > > > > > >Cheers > > > >Axel > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > > >Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Peter J. Modreski > > > >Verzonden: woensdag 29 december 2004 19:14 > > > >Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > > >Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > > > > > > > > > > >Brenda, > > > > > > > >Most rubies fluoresce red, under long-wave ultraviolet light; an > exception > > > >among minerals, because long-wave UV lamps are the less expensive kind. > > > >Some rubies are brighter than others. Yes, you should get a lamp and > check > > > >out all your ruby crystals! > > > > > > > >One of many good places to start for more information is the > Fluorescent > > > >Mineral Society website, > > > > > > > >http://www.uvminerals.org/ > > > > > > > >Pete > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: "Brenda LaCroix" > > > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > > > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:56 AM > > > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Minedat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NO....I have never put a blacklight on it.....should I?!?!?!? > > > > > > > > > > What would I be looking for if I did....LOL!!! I have read that > rubies > > > >can flouresce (sp?), is that right?? Is that what I would > > > > > be looking for?? > > > > > > > > > > Where does one go about getting a blacklight, or finding someone who > has > > > >one that I could use momentarily?? I certainly wouldn't > > > > > need to buy one, would I??? Or maybe it is something that is needed > to be > > > >a rockhound?? hehehe!!! > > > > > > > > > > Very interested..... > > > > > Brenda _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 2 07:08:14 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sun Jan 2 07:08:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question In-Reply-To: <41D745CC.450D@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <20050102150814.78838.qmail@web51007.mail.yahoo.com> That was my first thought as well. There are fungi that phosphoresce, usually found on dead and partially decayed tree trunks,etc. I can recall seeing this phenomenon at night in the woods in New Jersey, usually in damp areas. I think it was called "fox fire" or something like that. Jim Daly --- Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > Kitty, > > I think it would be just as likely to be caused by > bacteria living on/in > the walls of the wet cave environment; if you took > some home it would > glow only until it dried out and the bacteria died. > > If there were a mineral with those attributes I > think it would be well > known in the collecting community. > > Kreigh > > > > > Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > > > Here's a question about fluorescence (that may > serve to further convince > > people of my ignorance): > > > > A couple of years ago I took a public tour of a > cave in central > > Pennsylvania not far from Penn State U. (while > Bill was at an astronomy > > conference). At one point the guide turned off > the dim lights that > > illuminated the cave and took her large flashlight > and pressed it against > > the wall of the cave. It was an ordinary > incandescent flashlight. After > > about 10 or 15 seconds she turned off the > flashlight and there was a circle > > of phosphorescence glowing from the wall where the > light had been. She > > said something like, "I discovered this by > accident, and I'm sorry to say > > I've never found out what causes it." > > > > Bill (my resident astronomer) tells me that > phosphorescence from ordinary > > incandescent light is not terribly unusual. But > I'd never seen it before > > in cave or mine walls or any of our mineral > specimens. So my question is, > > what kind of rock or mineral is likely to do that? > > > > Aloha, Kitty (an enthusiastic but non-expert > glowhound) > > > > At 09:00 AM 1/1/2005, you wrote: > > > > >Hi Margaret & Don & Pete & all > > > > > >I don't think that fluorescence is a consistent > tool for mineral > > >determination. Maybe some exeptions: > scheelite/powelite, ruby, > > >uranium-minerals and to some degree perhaps > diamond and zircon. > > > > > >Looking at a fluorescent mineral under all > wavelengths at the same time > > >would be poor entertainment... Some specific > typical reactions, like that of > > >tugtupite or Terlingua type calcite would remain > unnoticed. > > >I believe however that we may yet be surprised if > some clever enineer were > > >to fill the gap between LW and MW (about 320 to > 340 nm) and the ap between > > >SW ad MW (say 255 nm - 300 nm). > > >Also a good blue light source, but that can be > done with LED's now. > > >I'm in favor of separate narrow band sources that > may reveal multiple > > >responses in a mineral... we can always light'm > up at once... > > > > > >Cheers > > > > > >Axel > > > > > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > >Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens > Margaret Malm > > >Verzonden: vrijdag 31 december 2004 19:58 > > >Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for > rock and gem > > >collectors' > > >Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > > > > > > > >I agree, Axel. It IS a continuous spectrum. Who > knows, maybe the great > > >majority of minerals do excite at some > wavelength, perhaps very narrow. It > > >we had light of all wavelengths at our disposal, > and with means to make the > > >band very narrow, perhaps it could turn out to be > a good and simple means of > > >identifying many minerals! > > > > > >Or am I way out in left field? > > > > > >Margaret > > > > > >----I think we should look upon UV as a > continuous spectrum in which many > > >minerals have there optimal exiting band of > wavelengths. We have only three > > >narrow bands at our disposal... > > > > > >Cheers > > >Axel > > > > > > > > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > >Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens > Peter J. Modreski > > >Verzonden: woensdag 29 december 2004 19:14 > > >Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for > rock and gem collectors > > >Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > > > > > > > >Brenda, > > > > > >Most rubies fluoresce red, under long-wave > ultraviolet light; an exception > > >among minerals, because long-wave UV lamps are > the less expensive kind. > > >Some rubies are brighter than others. Yes, you > should get a lamp and check > > >out all your ruby crystals! > > > > > >One of many good places to start for more > information is the Fluorescent > > >Mineral Society website, > > > > > >http://www.uvminerals.org/ > > > > > >Pete > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Brenda LaCroix" > > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for > rock and gem collectors" > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:56 AM > > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES > to Minedat > > > > > > > > > > > > > NO....I have never put a blacklight on > it.....should I?!?!?!? > > > > > > > > What would I be looking for if I did....LOL!!! > I have read that rubies > > >can flouresce (sp?), is that right?? Is that > what I would > > > > be looking for?? > > > > > > > > Where does one go about getting a blacklight, > or finding someone who has > > >one that I could use momentarily?? I certainly > wouldn't > > > > need to buy one, would I??? Or maybe it is > something that is needed to be > > >a rockhound?? hehehe!!! > > > > > > > > Very interested..... > > > > Brenda > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do good. http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sun Jan 2 07:46:43 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun Jan 2 07:46:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question (cave speleothems) References: <20041231185743.CDE69CBA5EB@delivery.infowest.com> <6.1.2.0.0.20050101093356.03423580@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <007701c4f0e2$42980270$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> It's a pretty well-known fact among cave explorers that flashlights and strobes from cameras cause calcite and aragonite speleothems to phosphoresce. Years ago we went to the Cumberland Caverns (Tenn.) Christmas party. The huge gather splits into smaller groups for different activities and tours throughout the cave. At one point our group of 20 sat on benches in front of one of their more impressive stalagmite-flowstone formations to hear what the cave guide had to say. At the end, she asked for a volunteer to hold a camera strobe (flash) up to the speleothem. Everyone closed their eyes and after the flash (which you can see through your eyelids), everyone opened their eyes to ooh and aah as a spot 3-feet in diameter glowed a yellow-green color. I nudged my friend Chris (www.darklightimagery.net) telling him to use on of his big press-type flash bulbs (the size of a 60W light bulb). He got up and took this flash unit over and stood about 7' away from the huge formation. Everyone closed their eyes and he tripped the flash. There was a widespread gasp of disbelief when almost the entire 20' x 20' travertine formation glowed yellow-green for about 10 seconds. Applause broke out... I listed Chris' website above, because he is one of the best cave photographers in the country. You might want to check it out sometime. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 2:52 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question > Here's a question about fluorescence (that may serve to further convince > people of my ignorance): > > A couple of years ago I took a public tour of a cave in central > Pennsylvania not far from Penn State U. (while Bill was at an astronomy > conference). At one point the guide turned off the dim lights that > illuminated the cave and took her large flashlight and pressed it against > the wall of the cave. It was an ordinary incandescent flashlight. After > about 10 or 15 seconds she turned off the flashlight and there was a > circle of phosphorescence glowing from the wall where the light had been. > She said something like, "I discovered this by accident, and I'm sorry to > say I've never found out what causes it." > > Bill (my resident astronomer) tells me that phosphorescence from ordinary > incandescent light is not terribly unusual. But I'd never seen it before > in cave or mine walls or any of our mineral specimens. So my question is, > what kind of rock or mineral is likely to do that? > > Aloha, Kitty (an enthusiastic but non-expert glowhound) > > > At 09:00 AM 1/1/2005, you wrote: > >>Hi Margaret & Don & Pete & all >> >>I don't think that fluorescence is a consistent tool for mineral >>determination. Maybe some exeptions: scheelite/powelite, ruby, >>uranium-minerals and to some degree perhaps diamond and zircon. >> >>Looking at a fluorescent mineral under all wavelengths at the same time >>would be poor entertainment... Some specific typical reactions, like that >>of >>tugtupite or Terlingua type calcite would remain unnoticed. >>I believe however that we may yet be surprised if some clever enineer were >>to fill the gap between LW and MW (about 320 to 340 nm) and the ap between >>SW ad MW (say 255 nm - 300 nm). >>Also a good blue light source, but that can be done with LED's now. >>I'm in favor of separate narrow band sources that may reveal multiple >>responses in a mineral... we can always light'm up at once... >> >>Cheers >> >>Axel >> >>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >>Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >>[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm >>Verzonden: vrijdag 31 december 2004 19:58 >>Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>collectors' >>Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence >> >> >>I agree, Axel. It IS a continuous spectrum. Who knows, maybe the great >>majority of minerals do excite at some wavelength, perhaps very narrow. It >>we had light of all wavelengths at our disposal, and with means to make >>the >>band very narrow, perhaps it could turn out to be a good and simple means >>of >>identifying many minerals! >> >>Or am I way out in left field? >> >>Margaret >> >>----I think we should look upon UV as a continuous spectrum in which many >>minerals have there optimal exiting band of wavelengths. We have only >>three >>narrow bands at our disposal... >> >>Cheers >>Axel >> >> >>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >>Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >>[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Peter J. Modreski >>Verzonden: woensdag 29 december 2004 19:14 >>Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >>Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence >> >> >>Brenda, >> >>Most rubies fluoresce red, under long-wave ultraviolet light; an exception >>among minerals, because long-wave UV lamps are the less expensive kind. >>Some rubies are brighter than others. Yes, you should get a lamp and >>check >>out all your ruby crystals! >> >>One of many good places to start for more information is the Fluorescent >>Mineral Society website, >> >>http://www.uvminerals.org/ >> >>Pete >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Brenda LaCroix" >>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> >>Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:56 AM >>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Minedat >> >> >> >> > NO....I have never put a blacklight on it.....should I?!?!?!? >> > >> > What would I be looking for if I did....LOL!!! I have read that rubies >>can flouresce (sp?), is that right?? Is that what I would >> > be looking for?? >> > >> > Where does one go about getting a blacklight, or finding someone who >> > has >>one that I could use momentarily?? I certainly wouldn't >> > need to buy one, would I??? Or maybe it is something that is needed to >> > be >>a rockhound?? hehehe!!! >> > >> > Very interested..... >> > Brenda >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >>-- >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004 > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004 > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Jan 2 08:07:43 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Jan 2 08:07:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question (cave speleothems) In-Reply-To: <007701c4f0e2$42980270$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: AWESOME photos... Really! Good story too ;-))) Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Alan Goldstein Verzonden: zondag 2 januari 2005 16:47 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question (cave speleothems) It's a pretty well-known fact among cave explorers that flashlights and strobes from cameras cause calcite and aragonite speleothems to phosphoresce. Years ago we went to the Cumberland Caverns (Tenn.) Christmas party. The huge gather splits into smaller groups for different activities and tours throughout the cave. At one point our group of 20 sat on benches in front of one of their more impressive stalagmite-flowstone formations to hear what the cave guide had to say. At the end, she asked for a volunteer to hold a camera strobe (flash) up to the speleothem. Everyone closed their eyes and after the flash (which you can see through your eyelids), everyone opened their eyes to ooh and aah as a spot 3-feet in diameter glowed a yellow-green color. I nudged my friend Chris (www.darklightimagery.net) telling him to use on of his big press-type flash bulbs (the size of a 60W light bulb). He got up and took this flash unit over and stood about 7' away from the huge formation. Everyone closed their eyes and he tripped the flash. There was a widespread gasp of disbelief when almost the entire 20' x 20' travertine formation glowed yellow-green for about 10 seconds. Applause broke out... I listed Chris' website above, because he is one of the best cave photographers in the country. You might want to check it out sometime. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 2:52 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question > Here's a question about fluorescence (that may serve to further convince > people of my ignorance): > > A couple of years ago I took a public tour of a cave in central > Pennsylvania not far from Penn State U. (while Bill was at an astronomy > conference). At one point the guide turned off the dim lights that > illuminated the cave and took her large flashlight and pressed it against > the wall of the cave. It was an ordinary incandescent flashlight. After > about 10 or 15 seconds she turned off the flashlight and there was a > circle of phosphorescence glowing from the wall where the light had been. > She said something like, "I discovered this by accident, and I'm sorry to > say I've never found out what causes it." > > Bill (my resident astronomer) tells me that phosphorescence from ordinary > incandescent light is not terribly unusual. But I'd never seen it before > in cave or mine walls or any of our mineral specimens. So my question is, > what kind of rock or mineral is likely to do that? > > Aloha, Kitty (an enthusiastic but non-expert glowhound) > > > At 09:00 AM 1/1/2005, you wrote: > >>Hi Margaret & Don & Pete & all >> >>I don't think that fluorescence is a consistent tool for mineral >>determination. Maybe some exeptions: scheelite/powelite, ruby, >>uranium-minerals and to some degree perhaps diamond and zircon. >> >>Looking at a fluorescent mineral under all wavelengths at the same time >>would be poor entertainment... Some specific typical reactions, like that >>of >>tugtupite or Terlingua type calcite would remain unnoticed. >>I believe however that we may yet be surprised if some clever enineer were >>to fill the gap between LW and MW (about 320 to 340 nm) and the ap between >>SW ad MW (say 255 nm - 300 nm). >>Also a good blue light source, but that can be done with LED's now. >>I'm in favor of separate narrow band sources that may reveal multiple >>responses in a mineral... we can always light'm up at once... >> >>Cheers >> >>Axel >> >>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >>Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >>[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm >>Verzonden: vrijdag 31 december 2004 19:58 >>Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>collectors' >>Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence >> >> >>I agree, Axel. It IS a continuous spectrum. Who knows, maybe the great >>majority of minerals do excite at some wavelength, perhaps very narrow. It >>we had light of all wavelengths at our disposal, and with means to make >>the >>band very narrow, perhaps it could turn out to be a good and simple means >>of >>identifying many minerals! >> >>Or am I way out in left field? >> >>Margaret >> >>----I think we should look upon UV as a continuous spectrum in which many >>minerals have there optimal exiting band of wavelengths. We have only >>three >>narrow bands at our disposal... >> >>Cheers >>Axel >> >> >>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >>Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >>[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Peter J. Modreski >>Verzonden: woensdag 29 december 2004 19:14 >>Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >>Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence >> >> >>Brenda, >> >>Most rubies fluoresce red, under long-wave ultraviolet light; an exception >>among minerals, because long-wave UV lamps are the less expensive kind. >>Some rubies are brighter than others. Yes, you should get a lamp and >>check >>out all your ruby crystals! >> >>One of many good places to start for more information is the Fluorescent >>Mineral Society website, >> >>http://www.uvminerals.org/ >> >>Pete >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Brenda LaCroix" >>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> >>Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:56 AM >>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Minedat >> >> >> >> > NO....I have never put a blacklight on it.....should I?!?!?!? >> > >> > What would I be looking for if I did....LOL!!! I have read that rubies >>can flouresce (sp?), is that right?? Is that what I would >> > be looking for?? >> > >> > Where does one go about getting a blacklight, or finding someone who >> > has >>one that I could use momentarily?? I certainly wouldn't >> > need to buy one, would I??? Or maybe it is something that is needed to >> > be >>a rockhound?? hehehe!!! >> > >> > Very interested..... >> > Brenda >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >>-- >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004 > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004 > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Jan 2 08:14:59 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Jan 2 08:14:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: <001b01c4f06d$36980350$8291fea9@WesMedion1918> Message-ID: Yes, I think know him ;-)) Bill sent me and my friend some stuff from his mine. I send him some photos of that stuff. No, serious, the filters are not the problem. SW and MW can be handled with a SW filter and anything north of 320 nm will pass through a LW filter. No sweat! It's just that (as far as I know) there are no affordable lamps with a sufficiently broad spectrum that peak at say 330nm or between 255-300 nm. Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens rocks4u@prodigy.net Verzonden: zondag 2 januari 2005 2:49 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence You are probably right as it more than likely requires a variable filter which would be IMHO too costly. However, the fellow at the site I sent you to is creative and it wouldn't hurt to ask him; perhaps you already have. Cheers! Wes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 11:04 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence >I doubt if he can make a lamp with max output at 320-350nm and 255-300 nm > ;-))) > > There lies the problem. > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens rocks4u@prodigy.net > Verzonden: vrijdag 31 december 2004 18:33 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > > You can exactly what you want at http://www.fluorescents.com/ If he > doesn't have the exact item he can make it for you. > Cheers! > Wes > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Axel Emmermann" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 7:45 AM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > >> Hi Pete, >> >>>now we can argue about how many minerals do which! But wouldn't >>>you still say that, "on average", there aren't nearly as many minerals >>>that >>>fl. brightly under LW, and SW? >> >> Yes that is true and also quite logical... >> >>>(Of course, I'm always biased by the >>>preponderance of Franklin/Sterling Hill specimens in displays or >>>collections, most of which need SW to fluoresce brightly.) >> >> Some of the F/SH calcites respond with a weird violet fluorescence under >> LW >> (blacklight with woods glass mantle, unfiltered). You'd miss that if you >> would limit yourself to SW only ;-)))) >> >> >>>And to be honest, although I have a MW lamp, I really don't use it all >>>that >>>much, and I don't look at as many of my specimens with it as I should. >> When >>>I bought it I got one (made by UVP) that is just MW; if I had to do it >>>again, I'd get one that was one bulb SW, one bulb MW; then I'd toggle >>>back >>>and forth to MW after using the SW lamp, and I'll bet I'd use it a lot >> more. >> >> My MW lamp is still in disassembled state... I cannibalized it for the >> display of our annual show. I distinctly remember however that most of my >> specimens (both in the LW and SW display) went completely bananas under >> MW. >> My Chinese scheelite fluoresces medium bright tan under SW while light >> blue >> under SW and weak brown under LW... Powellite fluoresces MUCH stronger in >> MW >> than in SW... So does cupro-scheelite. >> >> On of these days I'll call my cousin-in-law. He has some contacts at one >> of >> the major lamp manufacturers. It would be interesting to design a custom >> filled halogen lamp with added salts and gases to pump up the volume and >> bandwidth of the output UV. >> Remember, ours is a community without established rights in UV-land... we >> thrive by the grace of other users with specific needs (curing of ink, >> disinfections, skin treatment, water purification, etc). There are no >> lamps >> or phosphors especially made for us. There are only reasonably good >> approximations of what we need thanks to clever manufacturers... >> I think we would welcome a set of say 3 lamps that range from 380 nm to >> 254.6 without gaps. I know I would ;-))) >> >> Cheers >> >> Axel >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sun Jan 2 08:37:06 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sun Jan 2 08:28:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] comet and meteors visible Message-ID: <002901c4f0e9$4d6f4300$76a6490c@pete> Dear Rockhounds List, Maybe this borders on off-topic, but after all, Kitty posts messages about hot lava rocks-in-the-making being visible in Hawaii, so I'll post one about some neat rocks sailing by outside the earth that are readily visible right now. First the comet; you might like to know that Comet Machholz is very easily visible in evening skies, as a fuzzy near-circular spot in the constellation Taurus, below the Pleiades. I could see it very clearly with binoculars last night; it's supposed to be visible to the naked eye, but it takes a darker environment than here in the Denver suburbs. You can see a picture & info about it on www.spaceweather.com . It's supposed to have a distinctly green color (hey, do you think luminescence of the cometary dust plays a role in that)--I don't think I could see that--and on magnificent, a separate "ion tail" is visible. The comet is approaching the earth, and I believe that's why the tail we see isn't a streak, but just a near-circular pattern since we're looking at it head on. No, it's not supposed to hit the earth--but I'll put in a plug for a good book, if you've never read it, "Lucifer's Hammer", written back in the 70's I think, is an excellent and suspenseful story about a multiple-impact comet colliding with earth. Luis Alvarez himself is supposed to have recommended this as good reading for anyone who wants a realistic view of what a major impact would be like (not pleasant)--speaking of tsunamis and such. The comet is now visible to the right of Aldebaran and below and a little to the right of the Pleiades, high in the south sky. It moves significantly each night, and will be just to the right (west) of the Pleiades by about Jan. 7. I could even see its position to nearby stars change significantly last night, between observing it at about 7 p.m. vs. later at 10 p.m. And then the meteors, the Quadrantid meteor shower is supposed to be visible before dawn tomorrow morning, Monday Jan. 3. It's supposed to be readily visible in western North America, with the peak of the shower around 4 a.m.; look ENE. If you're a REAL optimist, get out your catcher's mitt and maybe you can snag one of the larger chips if it makes it way through the atmosphere into your backyard, and you'll have a superbly valuable specimen! The shower is also described on spaceweather.com . (Yes, I realize that they are only sand-grain size and don't normally make it to the surface, except as floating "cosmic dust" grains--a pity.) But think about it (speaking of incandescence now, though luminescence plays a role too)--meteors are known to become visible as they enter the outer atmosphere at a height of about 60 miles, give or take 50%. And they're visible from the surface; that means, that a grain of sand, 60 miles away on the top of Pikes Peak (as I view it from here in Denver) if it were that hot would be giving off enough light to be visible at that distance, if it were a meteor up in the sky! (Of course, the atmosphere path 60 miles straight up is a lot thinner and clearer than the 60 miles across the surface from here to Pikes Peak.) But those little things are REALLY hot! Plus the luminescence. Wishing everyone have a great January 2 of a new year, Pete --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sun Jan 2 08:42:50 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sun Jan 2 08:33:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] comet... P.S. References: <002901c4f0e9$4d6f4300$76a6490c@pete> Message-ID: <003701c4f0ea$1aed7680$76a6490c@pete> Excuse me again, I thought I proof-read this message but I depend too much on spell checker--I meant to say "magnification", not, ...and on magnificent, a separate "ion tail" is visible... but it is kind of magnificent! Pete From morningstar at att.net Sun Jan 2 08:35:34 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Sun Jan 2 08:33:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41D822D6.70701@att.net> Axel Emmermann wrote: > Yes, I think know him ;-)) > Bill sent me and my friend some stuff from his mine. > I send him some photos of that stuff. Indeed, we know him pretty well. I think Bill Gardner, more than any one person, was responsible for bringing the 4 wavelengths to the general public at an affordable price. But he is limited by the lamps that manufacturers produce. In his case, necessity was the mother of invention: the minerals from his Purple Passion claim have varying responses, and you need at least 3 wavelengths to fully appreciate them. Don From kadok at infowest.com Sun Jan 2 08:34:01 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sun Jan 2 08:34:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050102163356.F18AECB91B5@delivery.infowest.com> Hi, Axel -- yes, I agree; we need to fill the gaps. But I don't think I made myself clear as to what I was thinking of re a full-UV-spectrum light source. I did not intend it to be one that gave all wavelengths at once. My intention was that it should be a UV light source that could be precisely controlled as to wavelength(s) emitted. A sort of dial-in-the-wavelength(s) sort of thing. Rather like the spectrophotometer I used to use when I was doing chemistry, except for fluorescence. Of course, that heads toward a fancy scanning fluorescence gadget that could give you a printout of the entire fluorescent spectrum of the mineral. Wow, wouldn't that be a neat thing to have? Margaret Hi Margaret & Don & Pete & all I don't think that fluorescence is a consistent tool for mineral determination. Maybe some exeptions: scheelite/powelite, ruby, uranium-minerals and to some degree perhaps diamond and zircon. Looking at a fluorescent mineral under all wavelengths at the same time would be poor entertainment... Some specific typical reactions, like that of tugtupite or Terlingua type calcite would remain unnoticed. I believe however that we may yet be surprised if some clever enineer were to fill the gap between LW and MW (about 320 to 340 nm) and the ap between SW ad MW (say 255 nm - 300 nm). Also a good blue light source, but that can be done with LED's now. I'm in favor of separate narrow band sources that may reveal multiple responses in a mineral... we can always light'm up at once... Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm Verzonden: vrijdag 31 december 2004 19:58 Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence I agree, Axel. It IS a continuous spectrum. Who knows, maybe the great majority of minerals do excite at some wavelength, perhaps very narrow. It we had light of all wavelengths at our disposal, and with means to make the band very narrow, perhaps it could turn out to be a good and simple means of identifying many minerals! Or am I way out in left field? Margaret ----I think we should look upon UV as a continuous spectrum in which many minerals have there optimal exiting band of wavelengths. We have only three narrow bands at our disposal... Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Peter J. Modreski Verzonden: woensdag 29 december 2004 19:14 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence Brenda, Most rubies fluoresce red, under long-wave ultraviolet light; an exception among minerals, because long-wave UV lamps are the less expensive kind. Some rubies are brighter than others. Yes, you should get a lamp and check out all your ruby crystals! One of many good places to start for more information is the Fluorescent Mineral Society website, http://www.uvminerals.org/ Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda LaCroix" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Minedat > NO....I have never put a blacklight on it.....should I?!?!?!? > > What would I be looking for if I did....LOL!!! I have read that rubies can flouresce (sp?), is that right?? Is that what I would > be looking for?? > > Where does one go about getting a blacklight, or finding someone who has one that I could use momentarily?? I certainly wouldn't > need to buy one, would I??? Or maybe it is something that is needed to be a rockhound?? hehehe!!! > > Very interested..... > Brenda _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kadok at infowest.com Sun Jan 2 08:36:51 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sun Jan 2 08:36:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: <41D73EC6.5666@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <20050102163646.A3949CB923A@delivery.infowest.com> Hey,yeah, Kreigh -- that's the general sort of thing I was thinking of! Margaret Throw together a carbon arc light and a transmission grating spectrograph. You could then use whatever part of the spectrum that interested you to excite your fluorescent mineral specimens. Kreigh Axel Emmermann wrote: > > Hi Margaret & Don & Pete & all > > I don't think that fluorescence is a consistent tool for mineral > determination. Maybe some exeptions: scheelite/powelite, ruby, > uranium-minerals and to some degree perhaps diamond and zircon. > > Looking at a fluorescent mineral under all wavelengths at the same time > would be poor entertainment... Some specific typical reactions, like that of > tugtupite or Terlingua type calcite would remain unnoticed. > I believe however that we may yet be surprised if some clever enineer were > to fill the gap between LW and MW (about 320 to 340 nm) and the ap between > SW ad MW (say 255 nm - 300 nm). > Also a good blue light source, but that can be done with LED's now. > I'm in favor of separate narrow band sources that may reveal multiple > responses in a mineral... we can always light'm up at once... > > Cheers > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm > Verzonden: vrijdag 31 december 2004 19:58 > Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > I agree, Axel. It IS a continuous spectrum. Who knows, maybe the great > majority of minerals do excite at some wavelength, perhaps very narrow. It > we had light of all wavelengths at our disposal, and with means to make the > band very narrow, perhaps it could turn out to be a good and simple means of > identifying many minerals! > > Or am I way out in left field? > > Margaret > > ----I think we should look upon UV as a continuous spectrum in which many > minerals have there optimal exiting band of wavelengths. We have only three > narrow bands at our disposal... > > Cheers > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Peter J. Modreski > Verzonden: woensdag 29 december 2004 19:14 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > Brenda, > > Most rubies fluoresce red, under long-wave ultraviolet light; an exception > among minerals, because long-wave UV lamps are the less expensive kind. > Some rubies are brighter than others. Yes, you should get a lamp and check > out all your ruby crystals! > > One of many good places to start for more information is the Fluorescent > Mineral Society website, > > http://www.uvminerals.org/ > > Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brenda LaCroix" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:56 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Adding our OWN PICTURES to Minedat > > > NO....I have never put a blacklight on it.....should I?!?!?!? > > > > What would I be looking for if I did....LOL!!! I have read that rubies > can flouresce (sp?), is that right?? Is that what I would > > be looking for?? > > > > Where does one go about getting a blacklight, or finding someone who has > one that I could use momentarily?? I certainly wouldn't > > need to buy one, would I??? Or maybe it is something that is needed to be > a rockhound?? hehehe!!! > > > > Very interested..... > > Brenda _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From morningstar at att.net Sun Jan 2 08:40:18 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Sun Jan 2 08:38:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: <20050102163356.F18AECB91B5@delivery.infowest.com> References: <20050102163356.F18AECB91B5@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: <41D823F2.3050405@att.net> Margaret Malm wrote: > Of course, that heads toward a fancy scanning fluorescence gadget that could > give you a printout of the entire fluorescent spectrum of the mineral. > Wow, wouldn't that be a neat thing to have? But Margaret, isn't that what a spectrophotometer does? That very process is what I described in earlier posts. Don From kadok at infowest.com Sun Jan 2 08:52:46 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sun Jan 2 08:52:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: <41D7402D.4080207@att.net> Message-ID: <20050102165241.6C14FCB9339@delivery.infowest.com> I agree that probably practically every rock or mineral will have a (sometimes very) slightly different "spectrum" throughout the UV. But if we could check them not only at the wavelengths where they fluoresce the most, but at other wavelengths, we could maybe find one (very narrow) wavelength which is specific to Chromium, and maybe find that the rest of them are specific to the other components of rubies. And perhaps these other components may not be present in the synthetics??? (Or if they are not, then perhaps, although they may be man-made, they are really are rubies??? Although I realize this is opening up a real can of worms!) margaret >The Hammer wrote: >> How about using fluorescence to determine wether a cut ruby is synthetic or >> natural?...how about an older stone? >Good idea, but first, you'd need to establish a logical baseline. For >example, are all rubies consistent? (Inconsistency is the biggest >problem with fluorescence, though sometimes inconsistencies can be >helpful, though we won't discuss that at the moment). Or, perhaps, are >all rubies from a particular locality consistent? I believe that ruby >is chromium-activated, and if that is the case, the variations in >content that give various rubies their color and quality would also vary >their luminescence. >Then, we'd need to determine what all synthetic rubies look like under >UV, and whether they are consistent either across the board or at least >by manufacturer. >We may find that there is either no difference, or there are too many >inconsistencies, in which case this noble idea won't be useful. On the >other hand, we might find it is very helpful indeed. >At the moment I don't have access to the GEOREF service, so I can't >search all the refereed literature to see what has been done in this >regard. The Gemological Institute of America might have related info, >since they would be the most likely organization to have a financial >motivation to do this kind of research. In fact, I have seen >GIA-certified diamond descriptions that include the diamond's >fluorescence. .Don _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rocks4u at prodigy.net Sun Jan 2 08:59:54 2005 From: rocks4u at prodigy.net (rocks4u@prodigy.net) Date: Sun Jan 2 09:02:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence References: Message-ID: <006901c4f0ec$7bf6b390$8291fea9@WesMedion1918> Axel, Thanks for your expert information, I find it informative. I'm wondering about the old Mercury Vapor lamps that were used back in the '40's. I've used a couple of them and found many more minerals will respond to it than those on the market today. The lamps also had 100 watts of output and were used during the Uranium prospecting activities in the 1950's. It takes a long time for the old lamps to warm up to full output but once they do the spot light effect is amazing. Rocks will glow from many yards away. It's my understanding that Bill has acquired one of these lamps from a mutual friend. Thanks again for your comments and education. Cheers! Wes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 8:14 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > Yes, I think know him ;-)) > Bill sent me and my friend some stuff from his mine. > I send him some photos of that stuff. > > No, serious, the filters are not the problem. > SW and MW can be handled with a SW filter and anything north of 320 nm > will > pass through a LW filter. No sweat! > It's just that (as far as I know) there are no affordable lamps with a > sufficiently broad spectrum that peak at say 330nm or between 255-300 nm. > > Axel > > From kadok at infowest.com Sun Jan 2 09:05:13 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sun Jan 2 09:05:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Red, White and Blue In-Reply-To: <41D75C9B.20508@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <20050102170508.0A4D7CB9644@delivery.infowest.com> Thank you John; I really enjoyed that! margaret 1/1/2005 Red, White and Blue By John Cornish j&gcornish@tenforward.com Hi Everyone, Many collectors are aware of the famous Spruce Mine here in Washington State for its production of world class quartz and pyrite combination specimens. This mine is located within a very wild and mountainous area of King County and this area has several other breccias which additionally produce specimens. All are under private claim and all require an intensive assault to reach. About a decade ago, I and 5 other buddies got together to purchase our own mining claim. We purchased the Big Chief. At the time of my buying into the claim, I'd never even been there. But while sight unseen, I had seen a pockets specimens as collected by another local and had been duly impressed. His pocket produced (among other things) 2 killer flattish plates about 3 inches wide by 7 inches long whose surfaces were completely covered in a sparkling forest of 2 inch clear scepters. They were stellar and perfect and I was excited about the possibilities! Soon thereafter, when I finally did make my first trip in, I fairly buzzed with excitement. Our claim is accessed through a combination of trail and bushwhacking. Only a small portion of which is level, the rest... what's that word, oh ya, vertical, the rest is near vertical! The claim and its breccia are all in a sheer walled canyon and we have numerous areas covered in ropes so as to allow a somewhat safe crossing and climb. But back in these earliest days, it was just hang on for dear life. Pockets were to be found with some searching and hard work. Lots of big bars, sledgehammers and chisel time, but the rewards, they are so very sweet. On my first trip in, I was fortunate to find my very own pocket and what a killer it was... But, before I continue, a bit about me. I like leaving the flats behind, if its sheer, most will avoid it. But what the heck, if I can hold my hammer in my teeth and wedge my chisel and my screwdriver in my pockets, I can get there and leave the others behind. So, while my other partners contented themselves with treasures below (and found among other things, two 5 foot pockets within the same distance apart which yielded small 1 inch crystals with fluorescent phantoms; one 4 foot pocket with 1 inch crystals tipped by reverse amethyst scepters; a series of pockets which produced up to 1.5 inch scepters surrounded by a matrix covering of minute japan-law twins; etc.) I headed up high for what I hoped would be unsearched ground. I was ascending, scrambling for hand holds and was just about to quit this foolishness when I spotted twenty feet above me a lip of rock studded with upward projecting quartz crystals. With renewed vigor, I crammed my fingers into the rock and pulled myself up. Just below the quartz crystal jag the rock kind of benched out a bit and there was a smallish tree rooted into a crack, this became my base camp while I exploited my pocket. So, here I am, hanging on an exposed face with my pack tangled up in the limbs of this scrawny twig of a tree and salivating and all glittery eyed with treasure mere feet away. I took out my day pack and slung it from a normal position on my back to my chest and put my tools within mixed with a wad of wrapping material and began my final ascent up to the pocket. I hope I always remember this day. The feeling of my heart thumping in my throat, the slick sheen of sweat that made my hands a bit clammy on the rock and that overwhelming thrill of expectations realized when with a last grunt I pulled myself up to a level where I could look into the pocket for the very first time, the first person ever to do so and what a sight it was. The pocket was split into two side by side chambers, both exposed to the elements. The closest, and the one whose edge plate I'd seen and which had led me there was about 3.5 feet across and a foot plus tall and deep and the other was about 2 by 1 by 1 foot and both were treasure houses of crystalline beauty. The walls were studded with outward projecting quartz crystals exceptionally up to 4 inches in length. All of the crystals had a bright white phantom zone within them, some of which I'd learn later would fluoresce. But before I worked these ceiling and wall plates out, there was the gravy collecting to do as on the floors of both pockets lay several perfect, pristine plates which were complete floaters. I just reached in and lifted them up, their backsides a forest of smaller crystals. This was awesome. My first trip up the mountain and I'd found a real killer pocket, how cool was this? Soon thereafter, reality set back in and the work began. One word while I worked which was always formost in my mind was safety, after all, as far as I was concerned my time on this mortal coil had yet to finish and I wanted to hang out for awhile more. But as carefully as I worked, as safe as I was, I still had a few problems and while I'm not very happy or proud about it, I am happy to say that it was the crystals that learned to fly a time or two that day and not me! My biggest loss here was not crystals however, but was almost my wedding ring. Here let me explain, with all the sweating and pounding, with all the grit and grunge that covered my hands, I developed a big blood blister behind my wedding band. It became an irritant and finally I pulled my ring up to the crease of my knuckle and didn't think another thought of it until just a bit later I flung out and shook my hand of dirt and heard the faint, though very unmistakable sound of my wedding ring bouncing off the rock and falling away. Now to be sure, this was not a good thing, but even more, a sheer face is not the place to just fling yourself out from to follow anything, wedding ring or not! But, luck was with me that day as neither the ring nor I were lost. The ring bouncing down the wall lodged somehow miraculously against my gear at the base of that scrawny tree. What luck! I still remember taking a break afterwards to just settle my heart down and relax a bit. The tension builds up so subtly until one realizes their shoulders are knots and their teeth are clenched. A sandwich never tasted so good or water so sweet as when we're living life to its fullest. I collected 3 full backpacks of material from these two pockets before I was done with them and made as many trips hauling treasure, knuckles dragging under the weight. After this, I made several more trips and have managed some fairly decent finds over the years. Lots of phantom quartz (white, blue, green, black, red) and lots of inclusion quartz's too (pyrite, hematite, clay, actinolite, barite), occasional pyrite octahedrons (most are altered to limonite pseudomorphs after pyrite due to their near surface exposures) and a few other odds and ends (limonite pseudomorphs after calcite and ankerite, barite macro crystals and brookite and anatase micro crystals) have complimented my quartz which has ranged from long and slender to fat and stumpy, from japan law twins to both scepters and reverse scepters. Wonderful times and experiences complimented by wonderful treasures, but are the best pieces from the claim my own? No, in my opinion they belong to one of my partners and these treasures did not come from a pocket, but rather were found loose on one of the small benches which scar the canyon walls. Here he found 4 loose crystals gathered among the gravel and moss whose like I and no others have yet recovered, they are colorlessly clear quartz except for three phantoms which from the termination down alternate from Red to White to Blue! All American crystals if ever I've heard of any and as pretty as ever one could ask for. And so here we are, the 1st of January in a new year. I've been reading a bit on the net this morning while the house is quiet and everyone else is still asleep and have enjoyed several stories where folks have shared their discoveries and the joys they've experienced while pursuing this fantastic hobby of ours and thought I'd share my own tale to begin the year (in one of these stories, the fellow had collected some massive quartz showing red, white and blue coloration and it got me thinking...). I sure love this hobby gone mad and wish you all a wonderful year of exciting discoveries. All the very best and Happy New Year! John --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From CRAZYDOVE at aol.com Sun Jan 2 09:18:55 2005 From: CRAZYDOVE at aol.com (CRAZYDOVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 2 09:19:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] comet and meteors visible Message-ID: Pete..thanks for this information. Being a "novice" astronomer and mineral collector..I really appreciate this. I even started a list for both astronomers AND mineral collectors, since it seems to go hand in hand, look down during the day and up at night! I read Lucifers Hammer, I still have the book, it's a terrific read and one that paints an awful picture of what "could" happen! Thanks again.... Jackie <--getting out her telescope --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sun Jan 2 09:31:18 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sun Jan 2 09:22:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] phosphorescence from visible light Message-ID: <005c01c4f0f0$e0be4640$76a6490c@pete> Hi, List, Inspired by the messages about luminescence of cave formations, etc., I thought I'd test some mineral specimens and report on the results. I grabbed a few specimens and took them to a dark corner of my basement, and zapped them with the strobe from my 35mm camera. (I thought all flash guns had a "test" button but mine doesn't, so I had to attach it to my SLR and trip the shutter each time.) I flashed the strobe and opened my eyes after the flash. The results were quite spectacular! Here's what I saw: septarian nodule (polished), Utah - the thin layer of brownish calcite outlining each fragment in the septarian, has a nice (whitish) phosphorescence. The yellow calcite filling the voids around them, has little or no discernable phosph. manganoan calcite (polished sphere) - a spectacular, bright, short-lived orange glow ! calcite (faintly yellow crystal) on pink dolomite xls, Black Rock, Arkansas - the dolomite has no phosph., but the calcite shows a short-lived orange glow, and then a longer-lingering, blue-white phosphorescence! calcite, cluster of large clear/white scalenohedra (no locality; Mexico?) - spectacular, same as the Arkansas calcite; a brief orange phosphorescence, then a longer-lived bluish-white phosph. polished siltstone breccia with calcite veins, from Pakistan (the material they make polished bowls and carvings out of) - a weak pattern of whitish phosph., probably from the calcite. fluorite (purple to pale yellow), Cave-in-Rock IL, with a few small crystals of white calcite attached--no phosph. seen (I should check this again more carefully, for the calcite) amazonite - nothing seen sodalite (blue grains in syenite) - nothing So there's my report, on 8 specimens-- 5 out of the 8 show phosphorescence from this light source, all of them being calcite. It doesn't mean that other minerals won't do it, of course--having just tested, what, about 5 out of 4000 known minerals. Since the strobe does put out a certain amount of long-wave UV along with the visible light, one can't be sure which or both, is causing the phosphorescence. I guess I could try the same test with a regular incandescent light source (a flashlight or battery-powered mine lamp), thought the light intensity wouldn't be nearly as strong. Perhaps someone else will try & report some more observations! Pete Modreski --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Sun Jan 2 09:29:10 2005 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Sun Jan 2 09:27:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question (cave speleothems) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200501021727.j02HRIZU005733@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Ah.... Cave photography. I can remember lugging my trusty Pentax in it's ammo box through Reed's Cave in the Black Hills. Set up the camera, hope the lens doesn't fog over, walk around the cave room "painting" with the strobe. Gee... I wonder where those old c1969 picture are? GcB > > It's a pretty well-known fact among cave explorers that > flashlights and strobes from cameras cause calcite and > aragonite speleothems to phosphoresce. Years ago we went to > the Cumberland Caverns (Tenn.) Christmas party. The huge > gather splits into smaller groups for different activities > and tours throughout the cave. At one point our group of 20 From kadok at infowest.com Sun Jan 2 10:03:08 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sun Jan 2 10:03:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: <41D823F2.3050405@att.net> Message-ID: <20050102180303.8F94DCB94EF@delivery.infowest.com> Well, Don, the only spectrophotometer that I'm familiar with measures transmission, not fluorescence. Margaret > Of course, that heads toward a fancy scanning fluorescence gadget that could > give you a printout of the entire fluorescent spectrum of the mineral. > Wow, wouldn't that be a neat thing to have? But Margaret, isn't that what a spectrophotometer does? That very process is what I described in earlier posts. Don _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tam2819 at cox.net Sun Jan 2 10:03:58 2005 From: tam2819 at cox.net (T.A.Masters) Date: Sun Jan 2 10:04:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question (cave speleothems) References: Message-ID: <41D8378E.7080503@cox.net> Alan, Thank you so very much for the link to Chris website. Several years ago my two grandsons and I made a month long trip to visit Caves across the USA. Eastbound we began at Carlsbad Caverns and ended up at Bristol Caverns, stopping at well known and far less well known caves across the states we traversed. Westbound we went across middle America. You have brought back wonderful memories, I will share this site with my grandsons. Thank you, Terrie From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Jan 2 10:20:18 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Jan 2 10:19:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: <006901c4f0ec$7bf6b390$8291fea9@WesMedion1918> Message-ID: Hi Wes, Those would be LW but of a little bit shorter wavelength than the usual blacklights... It's a high pressure mercury lamp. The higher pressure suppresses the 254.6 nm spectral line in favor of a line ... darn I forgot the exact WL but I think it's around 360 nm, give or take. I have a 125 watt and a 60 watt of those... They take about 5 to 10 minutes to warm up and if you shut them down you have to wait until they are completely cooled of. Also : heavy ballast. Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens rocks4u@prodigy.net Verzonden: zondag 2 januari 2005 18:00 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence Axel, Thanks for your expert information, I find it informative. I'm wondering about the old Mercury Vapor lamps that were used back in the '40's. I've used a couple of them and found many more minerals will respond to it than those on the market today. The lamps also had 100 watts of output and were used during the Uranium prospecting activities in the 1950's. It takes a long time for the old lamps to warm up to full output but once they do the spot light effect is amazing. Rocks will glow from many yards away. It's my understanding that Bill has acquired one of these lamps from a mutual friend. Thanks again for your comments and education. Cheers! Wes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 8:14 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > Yes, I think know him ;-)) > Bill sent me and my friend some stuff from his mine. > I send him some photos of that stuff. > > No, serious, the filters are not the problem. > SW and MW can be handled with a SW filter and anything north of 320 nm > will > pass through a LW filter. No sweat! > It's just that (as far as I know) there are no affordable lamps with a > sufficiently broad spectrum that peak at say 330nm or between 255-300 nm. > > Axel > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Gslrocks at aol.com Sun Jan 2 10:31:13 2005 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 2 10:31:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence Message-ID: <66.4db07f2f.2f0997f1@aol.com> The Ruby colored (synthetic) cubic zirconias will fluoresce red orange under MW and SW but not under LW which is the normal wavelength to activate rubies. The rare earths that are in other cubic zirconias produce some interesting responses. Last year the Warren Museum in the Sterling Hill mining complex acquired a nice group of fluorescing cubic zirconias for their collection. Greg Lesinski GSLROCKS 4726 Porter Center Rd. Lewiston NY 14092 Fluorescent minerals, ultraviolet lamps and reference books website www.gslrocks.com GSLROCKS@AOL.COM 716-754-9729 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rocks4u at prodigy.net Sun Jan 2 10:45:38 2005 From: rocks4u at prodigy.net (rocks4u@prodigy.net) Date: Sun Jan 2 10:47:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence References: Message-ID: <009301c4f0fb$40a18040$8291fea9@WesMedion1918> Yep! You know the lamp well. I'm surprised..umm, maybe not considering whom I'm talking to. Happy New Year to you and all your fellow UV'ers. Wes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 10:20 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > Hi Wes, > > Those would be LW but of a little bit shorter wavelength than the usual > blacklights... It's a high pressure mercury lamp. The higher pressure > suppresses the 254.6 nm spectral line in favor of a line ... darn I forgot > the exact WL but I think it's around 360 nm, give or take. > I have a 125 watt and a 60 watt of those... They take about 5 to 10 > minutes > to warm up and if you shut them down you have to wait until they are > completely cooled of. Also : heavy ballast. > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens rocks4u@prodigy.net > Verzonden: zondag 2 januari 2005 18:00 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > > Axel, > Thanks for your expert information, I find it informative. I'm wondering > about the old Mercury Vapor lamps that were used back in the '40's. I've > used a couple of them and found many more minerals will respond to it than > those on the market today. The lamps also had 100 watts of output and were > used during the Uranium prospecting activities in the 1950's. It takes a > long time for the old lamps to warm up to full output but once they do the > spot light effect is amazing. Rocks will glow from many yards away. It's > my > understanding that Bill has acquired one of these lamps from a mutual > friend. Thanks again for your comments and education. > Cheers! > Wes > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Axel Emmermann" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 8:14 AM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > >> Yes, I think know him ;-)) >> Bill sent me and my friend some stuff from his mine. >> I send him some photos of that stuff. >> >> No, serious, the filters are not the problem. >> SW and MW can be handled with a SW filter and anything north of 320 nm >> will >> pass through a LW filter. No sweat! >> It's just that (as far as I know) there are no affordable lamps with a >> sufficiently broad spectrum that peak at say 330nm or between 255-300 nm. >> >> Axel >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From kahako at aloha.net Sun Jan 2 11:25:26 2005 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Jan 2 10:55:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: <006901c4f0ec$7bf6b390$8291fea9@WesMedion1918> References: <006901c4f0ec$7bf6b390$8291fea9@WesMedion1918> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20050102090349.03a34d70@mail.aloha.net> When I was a child and we moved from New Jersey to Seattle in 1952, the Lake Washington Floating Bridge was fairly new. It had Sodium Vapor streetlights---high pressure, I believe---and when they came on at dusk they were very dark red. From our house we had a good view of the lake and the bridge, and the line of red lights across the lake---often with reflections in the water---was beautiful. After about 20 or 30 minutes the lights assumed the orange color that we recognize for such lights now. Here on the Big Island nearly all our streetlights are low pressure Sodium Vapor lamps, the result of a county ordinance back in the 1980's at the request of various telescope directors on Mauna Kea. Astronomers didn't want their viewing diminished by the more common bright white Mercury Vapor lamps; the orange Sodium Vapor lights do not interfere with night vision. One exception is the main tourist shopping/entertainment street on the Kona side of the island, where merchants say women don't like the way they appear under the orange lights. Aloha, Kitty At 06:59 AM 1/2/2005, you wrote: >Axel, >Thanks for your expert information, I find it informative. I'm wondering >about the old Mercury Vapor lamps that were used back in the '40's. I've >used a couple of them and found many more minerals will respond to it than >those on the market today. The lamps also had 100 watts of output and were >used during the Uranium prospecting activities in the 1950's. It takes a >long time for the old lamps to warm up to full output but once they do the >spot light effect is amazing. Rocks will glow from many yards away. It's >my understanding that Bill has acquired one of these lamps from a mutual >friend. Thanks again for your comments and education. >Cheers! >Wes -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004 From Bunyhgr203 at aol.com Sun Jan 2 11:06:16 2005 From: Bunyhgr203 at aol.com (Bunyhgr203@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 2 11:06:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] maps Message-ID: <1f0.325a6055.2f09a028@aol.com> Ted, Thankyou sooo much for all the great info ! I would also like ti thank everyine who has responded to my inquirery,,your all fantastick ! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From shm at tapnet.net Sun Jan 2 11:08:27 2005 From: shm at tapnet.net (SHM) Date: Sun Jan 2 11:08:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20050101093356.03423580@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <007801c4f0fe$717021b0$c9e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Hi Kitty (and list), I've been out of e-mail contact for several days now, but returned this morning to find your message (reprinted below) about the phosphorescence of cave calcites. As others have noted in their responses, this is common, very common indeed. If someone gave the answer for how this came about, however, I missed it (somehow my computer always downloads two less e-mails than have come in, so some messages get lost). In any event, the near-white fluorescence and phosphorescence of cave calcite and aragonite generally are due to organic activators. I believe that Will White (Penn State University) and one of his students or colleagues published a paper on this, and I'll have to look through my files, but I remember Will explaining to me that rainwater descending through soils in temperate climates picks up humic and fulvic acids, and these are the activators of fluorescence in cave carbonates precipitated from such waters. Thus, you can thank decomposing vegetation near the surface for the luminescence of cave carbonates below. Other minerals, such as gypsum, celestine, and strontianite, behave similarly, probably from the same cause. Ditto coral (something for you to try, Kitty). Over the years I've noticed some common traits among these minerals, for those examples where the fluorescence is some pastel color close to white. There are only two I can recall right now. First, though the fluorescence commonly is brighter LW than SW, the phosphorescence is the other way around--it is brighter and more enduring after SW excitation. Second, the color of fluorescence is generally a little "cooler" under a SW than a LW lamp. For example, a specimen of calcite that fluoresces pale yellowish white under LW may fluoresce pale bluish white SW. The color shift can be subtle, but it's real. I've never looked into this further, though I imagine there might be considerable information on it in the published record already. If not, Don Halterman and I can generate some emission and excitation spectra of cave calcites when next we have a fluorescence spectrophotometer on-site at the Warren Museum for a little while. That will happen -- we just don't yet know when that will be. Oh yes, almost forgot -- as Don mentioned, there are other minerals that fluoresce due to visible light. Actually there are quite a lot of them. The miners here at Sterling Hill used to have fun with this, by sweeping their cap lamp across a rock face rich in sphalerite and then quickly turning the cap lamp off, to reveal an enduring orange streak across the rock. The chlorophane variety of fluorite will behave similarly, though in that case the color of phosphorescence will be bluish green. Cheers- Earl Verbeek -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill Heacox Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 2:52 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question Here's a question about fluorescence (that may serve to further convince people of my ignorance): A couple of years ago I took a public tour of a cave in central Pennsylvania not far from Penn State U. (while Bill was at an astronomy conference). At one point the guide turned off the dim lights that illuminated the cave and took her large flashlight and pressed it against the wall of the cave. It was an ordinary incandescent flashlight. After about 10 or 15 seconds she turned off the flashlight and there was a circle of phosphorescence glowing from the wall where the light had been. She said something like, "I discovered this by accident, and I'm sorry to say I've never found out what causes it." Bill (my resident astronomer) tells me that phosphorescence from ordinary incandescent light is not terribly unusual. But I'd never seen it before in cave or mine walls or any of our mineral specimens. So my question is, what kind of rock or mineral is likely to do that? Aloha, Kitty (an enthusiastic but non-expert glowhound) From kahako at aloha.net Sun Jan 2 11:55:01 2005 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Jan 2 11:24:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question In-Reply-To: <007801c4f0fe$717021b0$c9e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> References: <6.1.2.0.0.20050101093356.03423580@mail.aloha.net> <007801c4f0fe$717021b0$c9e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20050102094657.03a3a190@mail.aloha.net> Thank you, Earl. As usual, your response is detailed but easy for an amateur to understand. Mahalo, Kitty At 09:08 AM 1/2/2005, you wrote: >Hi Kitty (and list), > >I've been out of e-mail contact for several days now, but returned this >morning to find your message (reprinted below) about the phosphorescence of >cave calcites. As others have noted in their responses, this is common, >very common indeed. If someone gave the answer for how this came about, >however, I missed it (somehow my computer always downloads two less e-mails >than have come in, so some messages get lost). > >In any event, the near-white fluorescence and phosphorescence of cave >calcite and aragonite generally are due to organic activators. I believe >that Will White (Penn State University) and one of his students or >colleagues published a paper on this, and I'll have to look through my >files, but I remember Will explaining to me that rainwater descending >through soils in temperate climates picks up humic and fulvic acids, and >these are the activators of fluorescence in cave carbonates precipitated >from such waters. Thus, you can thank decomposing vegetation near the >surface for the luminescence of cave carbonates below. Other minerals, such >as gypsum, celestine, and strontianite, behave similarly, probably from the >same cause. Ditto coral (something for you to try, Kitty). > >Over the years I've noticed some common traits among these minerals, for >those examples where the fluorescence is some pastel color close to white. >There are only two I can recall right now. First, though the fluorescence >commonly is brighter LW than SW, the phosphorescence is the other way >around--it is brighter and more enduring after SW excitation. Second, the >color of fluorescence is generally a little "cooler" under a SW than a LW >lamp. For example, a specimen of calcite that fluoresces pale yellowish >white under LW may fluoresce pale bluish white SW. The color shift can be >subtle, but it's real. I've never looked into this further, though I >imagine there might be considerable information on it in the published >record already. If not, Don Halterman and I can generate some emission and >excitation spectra of cave calcites when next we have a fluorescence >spectrophotometer on-site at the Warren Museum for a little while. That >will happen -- we just don't yet know when that will be. > >Oh yes, almost forgot -- as Don mentioned, there are other minerals that >fluoresce due to visible light. Actually there are quite a lot of them. >The miners here at Sterling Hill used to have fun with this, by sweeping >their cap lamp across a rock face rich in sphalerite and then quickly >turning the cap lamp off, to reveal an enduring orange streak across the >rock. The chlorophane variety of fluorite will behave similarly, though in >that case the color of phosphorescence will be bluish green. > > Cheers- Earl Verbeek > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill >Heacox >Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 2:52 PM >To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question > >Here's a question about fluorescence (that may serve to further convince >people of my ignorance): > >A couple of years ago I took a public tour of a cave in central >Pennsylvania not far from Penn State U. (while Bill was at an astronomy >conference). At one point the guide turned off the dim lights that >illuminated the cave and took her large flashlight and pressed it against >the wall of the cave. It was an ordinary incandescent flashlight. After >about 10 or 15 seconds she turned off the flashlight and there was a circle >of phosphorescence glowing from the wall where the light had been. She >said something like, "I discovered this by accident, and I'm sorry to say >I've never found out what causes it." > >Bill (my resident astronomer) tells me that phosphorescence from ordinary >incandescent light is not terribly unusual. But I'd never seen it before >in cave or mine walls or any of our mineral specimens. So my question is, >what kind of rock or mineral is likely to do that? > >Aloha, Kitty (an enthusiastic but non-expert glowhound) > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004 From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sun Jan 2 11:33:15 2005 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sun Jan 2 11:33:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41D84C7B.3060407@xs4all.nl> Hi Axel and the rest, I haven't read all mails on this thread, so on the risk of saying something allready discussed.... Some years ago I worked on a analythical lab. When I returned from my summer holliday I discovered to my 'horror' that they replaced the fluorimeter. Worse they threw away the old one. Since then I'm looking for a fluorimeter for free of for a symbolic price...... An UV/Vis spectrometer would also do I guess. Most importantly it has a UV lightsource with variable wavelength. With some modifications it must be possible to measure the frequency of the emitted light of a mineral as function of the frequency of the exicating light (UV). Such a graph would be a consistent tool for determination I guess. At least it will be fun to play with. The main difficulty is to take care that what you measure is not the primary lightsource, but only the light emmitted by the sample. That is what the fluorimeter is designed to do in contrast to a normal spectrometer. It will be rather complicated since minerals also reflect light. Cheers, Maurice BTW that was a serious bad year, the same holliday they also replaced the IR spectrometer :-(( Axel Emmermann wrote: >Hi Margaret & Don & Pete & all > >I don't think that fluorescence is a consistent tool for mineral >determination. Maybe some exeptions: scheelite/powelite, ruby, >uranium-minerals and to some degree perhaps diamond and zircon. > >Looking at a fluorescent mineral under all wavelengths at the same time >would be poor entertainment... Some specific typical reactions, like that of >tugtupite or Terlingua type calcite would remain unnoticed. >I believe however that we may yet be surprised if some clever enineer were >to fill the gap between LW and MW (about 320 to 340 nm) and the ap between >SW ad MW (say 255 nm - 300 nm). >Also a good blue light source, but that can be done with LED's now. >I'm in favor of separate narrow band sources that may reveal multiple >responses in a mineral... we can always light'm up at once... > >Cheers > >Axel > > From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sun Jan 2 12:51:45 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sun Jan 2 12:42:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question References: <007801c4f0fe$717021b0$c9e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <003501c4f10c$e05cdba0$73a4490c@pete> Earl, I wonder how valid that conclusion is, that it's organic acids that cause the luminesence in those cave (and other) calcite. So much other crystalline as well as microcrystalline/botryoidal calcite has that kind of various-whitish-tints fluorescence and phosphorescence, I guess I'm inclined to doubt that it's really one type of activator that causes all of it. For examples, the amber-colored rhombohedral calcite crystals from Winfield, PA that I'm sure you remember well, some of the generations of calcite in the UT/CO/NM/SD septarians and elsewhere--also, often amber-colored. Large-molecule organic impurities are not, I would think, likely to become included in well-formed, transparent, calcite crystals. I'll bet things are much more complicated than this simple answer. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "SHM" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 12:08 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question > > Hi Kitty (and list), > > I've been out of e-mail contact for several days now, but returned this > morning to find your message (reprinted below) about the phosphorescence of > cave calcites. As others have noted in their responses, this is common, > very common indeed. If someone gave the answer for how this came about, > however, I missed it (somehow my computer always downloads two less e-mails > than have come in, so some messages get lost). > > In any event, the near-white fluorescence and phosphorescence of cave > calcite and aragonite generally are due to organic activators. I believe > that Will White (Penn State University) and one of his students or > colleagues published a paper on this, and I'll have to look through my > files, but I remember Will explaining to me that rainwater descending > through soils in temperate climates picks up humic and fulvic acids, and > these are the activators of fluorescence in cave carbonates precipitated > from such waters. Thus, you can thank decomposing vegetation near the > surface for the luminescence of cave carbonates below. Other minerals, such > as gypsum, celestine, and strontianite, behave similarly, probably from the > same cause. Ditto coral (something for you to try, Kitty). > > Over the years I've noticed some common traits among these minerals, for > those examples where the fluorescence is some pastel color close to white. > There are only two I can recall right now. First, though the fluorescence > commonly is brighter LW than SW, the phosphorescence is the other way > around--it is brighter and more enduring after SW excitation. Second, the > color of fluorescence is generally a little "cooler" under a SW than a LW > lamp. For example, a specimen of calcite that fluoresces pale yellowish > white under LW may fluoresce pale bluish white SW. The color shift can be > subtle, but it's real. I've never looked into this further, though I > imagine there might be considerable information on it in the published > record already. If not, Don Halterman and I can generate some emission and > excitation spectra of cave calcites when next we have a fluorescence > spectrophotometer on-site at the Warren Museum for a little while. That > will happen -- we just don't yet know when that will be. > > Oh yes, almost forgot -- as Don mentioned, there are other minerals that > fluoresce due to visible light. Actually there are quite a lot of them. > The miners here at Sterling Hill used to have fun with this, by sweeping > their cap lamp across a rock face rich in sphalerite and then quickly > turning the cap lamp off, to reveal an enduring orange streak across the > rock. The chlorophane variety of fluorite will behave similarly, though in > that case the color of phosphorescence will be bluish green. > > Cheers- Earl Verbeek > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill > Heacox > Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 2:52 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question > > Here's a question about fluorescence (that may serve to further convince > people of my ignorance): > > A couple of years ago I took a public tour of a cave in central > Pennsylvania not far from Penn State U. (while Bill was at an astronomy > conference). At one point the guide turned off the dim lights that > illuminated the cave and took her large flashlight and pressed it against > the wall of the cave. It was an ordinary incandescent flashlight. After > about 10 or 15 seconds she turned off the flashlight and there was a circle > of phosphorescence glowing from the wall where the light had been. She > said something like, "I discovered this by accident, and I'm sorry to say > I've never found out what causes it." > > Bill (my resident astronomer) tells me that phosphorescence from ordinary > incandescent light is not terribly unusual. But I'd never seen it before > in cave or mine walls or any of our mineral specimens. So my question is, > what kind of rock or mineral is likely to do that? > > Aloha, Kitty (an enthusiastic but non-expert glowhound) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kugeln at msn.com Sun Jan 2 13:26:35 2005 From: kugeln at msn.com (JOHN STOCKWELL) Date: Sun Jan 2 13:27:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] INCREDIBLY INTERESTING!!! References: <018501c4ee24$e61a67a0$4e887644@dit03r92qai5fx><002201c4ee91$dc38e000$6401a8c0@Junior> <009101c4ee94$62b33a20$b6a6490c@pete> Message-ID: I quite agree. I was in the army stationed in the Philippines. "Wild" animal life apart from birds was in my experience never seen in the settled areas; "food," you know. John From: Peter J. Modreski To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] INCREDIBLY INTERESTING!!! I wonder if the immediate coastal areas, which are heavily populated, haven't had most of the native wildlife either driven back further into this less populated interior areas, and/or long since hunted for food. I'll bet there's just not that much wildlife, near the shore in the innundated areas. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Jokela Jr." To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 10:06 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] INCREDIBLY INTERESTING!!! > Nonsense. > > With thousands of dead, injured, and homeless humans, do you think the > Government of Sri Lanka has time to go around resuscitating dead parrots? I > really doubt they've managed an accurate wildlife census at this point in > time. > > If animals did flee the tsunami well before it arrived, it's not because of > some mysterious doggy sixth sense, it's because of their excellent sense of > hearing. > > I hope the ASPCA is monitoring the situation, and will be donating some dog > and cat food to ease the suffering of our four-legged friends. > > Not at all an appropriate topic for this list, so let's hope this is the > last post on it. > > Cheers, > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brenda LaCroix" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 11:06 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] INCREDIBLY INTERESTING!!! > > > OK, I just watched the Primetime Special on the Tsunami..... > > The closing comment was about wild life - the first I had heard about > animals, so of course, I was very interested to hear what he had to say - > and he said that the Government of Sri Lanka has reported NO CORPSES OF WILD > LIFE > > I don't know if that is covering domestic dogs and cats - which I can't > imagine that it is, because there must be some of those that were caught in > houses and had to have died. But the wild life is what is sooooooooooooo > interesting. These are places that must be covered with birds and monkeys > and all kinds of things. They have a sense that we don't pay attention > to.....because we have it to, of course, since we are all mammals in the > basic sense. I think this just proves it :-) > > I just thought I would mention this.....any comments?!?! > Brenda > > > Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan > > Assisting Boston Terriers > > Kearney, NE > > CornDogs@Charter.net > > Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers > > To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! > > Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your > character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what > others think you are. ~Author Unknown > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kugeln at msn.com Sun Jan 2 13:29:49 2005 From: kugeln at msn.com (JOHN STOCKWELL) Date: Sun Jan 2 13:30:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] INCREDIBLY INTERESTING!!! References: <018501c4ee24$e61a67a0$4e887644@dit03r92qai5fx> <002201c4ee91$dc38e000$6401a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: I've been away, so haven't the time to read all of this thread. But (excuse me if this is truly out of line) if it's appropriate for this list to be concerned with human tsunami victims, so also is it to be concerned about living beings in general. John ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Jokela Jr. To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 9:06 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] INCREDIBLY INTERESTING!!! Nonsense. With thousands of dead, injured, and homeless humans, do you think the Government of Sri Lanka has time to go around resuscitating dead parrots? I really doubt they've managed an accurate wildlife census at this point in time. If animals did flee the tsunami well before it arrived, it's not because of some mysterious doggy sixth sense, it's because of their excellent sense of hearing. I hope the ASPCA is monitoring the situation, and will be donating some dog and cat food to ease the suffering of our four-legged friends. Not at all an appropriate topic for this list, so let's hope this is the last post on it. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda LaCroix" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 11:06 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] INCREDIBLY INTERESTING!!! OK, I just watched the Primetime Special on the Tsunami..... The closing comment was about wild life - the first I had heard about animals, so of course, I was very interested to hear what he had to say - and he said that the Government of Sri Lanka has reported NO CORPSES OF WILD LIFE I don't know if that is covering domestic dogs and cats - which I can't imagine that it is, because there must be some of those that were caught in houses and had to have died. But the wild life is what is sooooooooooooo interesting. These are places that must be covered with birds and monkeys and all kinds of things. They have a sense that we don't pay attention to.....because we have it to, of course, since we are all mammals in the basic sense. I think this just proves it :-) I just thought I would mention this.....any comments?!?! Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, NE CornDogs@Charter.net Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From morningstar at att.net Sun Jan 2 14:35:39 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Sun Jan 2 14:33:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: <20050102180303.8F94DCB94EF@delivery.infowest.com> References: <20050102180303.8F94DCB94EF@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: <41D8773B.5010903@att.net> Margaret Malm wrote: > Well, Don, the only spectrophotometer that I'm familiar with measures > transmission, not fluorescence. Ah yes indeed, there are several flavors of that type of instrument. Didn't you work at Kodak? (Maybe I'm thinking of someone else). It would make sense that they didn't have a UV-VIS excitation-emission spectrophotometer of the type I described. However, the type of instrument which I used does just what you describe--you can tune the excitation parameters, down to the Angstrom, from about 190.0 nm to about 1300.0 nm. Of course, the least you're going to spend on something like this is about $20,000, and the more advanced models run into the hundreds of thousands. That's how I obtained the information about how fluorescent minerals respond. Best, Don From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sun Jan 2 16:10:11 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun Jan 2 16:10:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] comet and meteors visible References: <002901c4f0e9$4d6f4300$76a6490c@pete> Message-ID: <002a01c4f128$97a38b40$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I saw it last month when it was SW of Orion. It was barely naked eye visibility then. We haven't had much clear weather lately, so I haven't had the chance to spot it in binoculars from my suburban back yard. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" To: "Rockhounds@Lists.Drizzle.Com" Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 11:37 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] comet and meteors visible Dear Rockhounds List, Maybe this borders on off-topic, but after all, Kitty posts messages about hot lava rocks-in-the-making being visible in Hawaii, so I'll post one about some neat rocks sailing by outside the earth that are readily visible right now. First the comet; you might like to know that Comet Machholz is very easily visible in evening skies, as a fuzzy near-circular spot in the constellation Taurus, below the Pleiades. I could see it very clearly with binoculars last night; it's supposed to be visible to the naked eye, but it takes a darker environment than here in the Denver suburbs. You can see a picture & info about it on www.spaceweather.com . It's supposed to have a distinctly green color (hey, do you think luminescence of the cometary dust plays a role in that)--I don't think I could see that--and on magnificent, a separate "ion tail" is visible. The comet is approaching the earth, and I believe that's why the tail we see isn't a streak, but just a near-circular pattern since we're looking at it head on. No, it's not supposed to hit the earth--but I'll put in a plug for a good book, if you've never read it, "Lucifer's Hammer", written back in the 70's I think, is an excellent and suspenseful story about a multiple-impact comet colliding with earth. Luis Alvarez himself is supposed to have recommended this as good reading for anyone who wants a realistic view of what a major impact would be like (not pleasant)--speaking of tsunamis and such. The comet is now visible to the right of Aldebaran and below and a little to the right of the Pleiades, high in the south sky. It moves significantly each night, and will be just to the right (west) of the Pleiades by about Jan. 7. I could even see its position to nearby stars change significantly last night, between observing it at about 7 p.m. vs. later at 10 p.m. And then the meteors, the Quadrantid meteor shower is supposed to be visible before dawn tomorrow morning, Monday Jan. 3. It's supposed to be readily visible in western North America, with the peak of the shower around 4 a.m.; look ENE. If you're a REAL optimist, get out your catcher's mitt and maybe you can snag one of the larger chips if it makes it way through the atmosphere into your backyard, and you'll have a superbly valuable specimen! The shower is also described on spaceweather.com . (Yes, I realize that they are only sand-grain size and don't normally make it to the surface, except as floating "cosmic dust" grains--a pity.) But think about it (speaking of incandescence now, though luminescence plays a role too)--meteors are known to become visible as they enter the outer atmosphere at a height of about 60 miles, give or take 50%. And they're visible from the surface; that means, that a grain of sand, 60 miles away on the top of Pikes Peak (as I view it from here in Denver) if it were that hot would be giving off enough light to be visible at that distance, if it were a meteor up in the sky! (Of course, the atmosphere path 60 miles straight up is a lot thinner and clearer than the 60 miles across the surface from here to Pikes Peak.) But those little things are REALLY hot! Plus the luminescence. Wishing everyone have a great January 2 of a new year, Pete --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Bunyhgr203 at aol.com Sun Jan 2 18:33:32 2005 From: Bunyhgr203 at aol.com (Bunyhgr203@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 2 18:33:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] trillabites Message-ID: <68.4c46c728.2f0a08fc@aol.com> I am catching up on my reading and happened on an offer from Anthony Schlinsog of maps to find trilobites and sunstones as well as side trips,,,I would like to have copies of the maps ,,Please ! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From afox at drizzle.com Sun Jan 2 23:55:05 2005 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Sun Jan 2 23:55:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] "ASBOG" In-Reply-To: <003701c4e84f$1ed5b940$bba3490c@pete> Message-ID: > exactly what is the ASBOG (Assoc. State Boards of Geology) test for? It's > not something I'm familiar with. Does it relate to, something about > becoming registered in a given state as a "certified professional geologist" > or something like that? My own experience in geology has always been what > you would call on the academic side of things, and I don't have much > familiary with many matters of geology as it relates to civil engineering > and such. Yes. It is a required exam for certification in most (not all) states. Material is basically what you'd cover in a comprehensive geology undergraduate degree, plus a lot of content specifically for engineering and environmental consultants. It's divided into two exams; the Fundamentals of Geology, and the Practice of Geology. The FG is passable by anyone who's got an undergrad geology degree and puts a little time into studying. I see no way for someone who's not worked, either as a consultant or for a government agency, to pass the PG. It's biased against academics. a. -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Mon Jan 3 06:52:35 2005 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Mon Jan 3 06:50:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] "ASBOG" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200501031450.j03EokYI028125@bubbleator.drizzle.com> A couple of questions.... Is this a "standard" test that is the same for a number of states, or is it tuned for each state? Is it administered online or at a center such as Sylvan, or is it a locally administered and proctored beast? In my "real" life I make software for administering exams (see: http://www.xmn.com) and am always looking for new fields to plow. Oh... And I sure hope the test is better constructed than the ones that SOME states give for professional certification. No naming names, but my cat and dog could pass some of those tests with a random walk across the keyboard! GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Fox > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 1:55 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Cc: asgardsgc@earthlink.net > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] "ASBOG" > > Yes. It is a required exam for certification in most (not > all) states. ... From tim at orerockon.com Mon Jan 3 07:14:40 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Jan 3 07:14:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garmin GPSMAP 76 In-Reply-To: <6C1216E5-582D-11D9-B99E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> References: <20041227142258.64297.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com> <001601c4ec23$b181c9a0$56a3490c@pete> <6C1216E5-582D-11D9-B99E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20050103070746.02603d90@mail.spiritone.com> Lanny, FWIW, the GPS V, which is the same price, offers more bang for the buck, IMO. I got one last spring & love it. For one, it comes with MapSource, which you have to buy separately with the 76, which is really cool. I navigated my way around the Whistler BC area with it last summer & the data was very accurate. For another, it uses CitySelect data, which the GPSMAP won't accept. Very cool for finding stuff in a strange city. I used it to find CFN cardlocks on I-5 and it was better than CFN's own booklet at getting me to the gas station. The only thing I can say for the GPSMAP over the V is that it stores 1,000 waypoints, which believe it or not I wouldn't mind having in the V :) At 09:33 AM 12/27/2004, you wrote: >I've been using a GPS for a long time -- the first one I bought cost $900 >for what is today a basic model; that was a number of years ago. > >Plotting lat./lon. coordinates may be a pain on a paper map, but most of >the USA uses it. USGS data typically is in lat./lon. first and as Pete >pointed out, UTM is usually only tic marks on the side of the map. I like >it, and I'm sticking with it. The problem is easily solved if you use >something like National Geographics TOPO. You can print out a paper copy >of the map to take in the field, or use it on a laptop. The USGS sells a >ruler that is designed to make the plotting of lat./lon. coordinates on >paper maps easy. > >In TOPO you can either find a spot on the map if you know the coordinates, >or you can get the coordinates by placing the cursor on the spot and >reading them off. You can upload way points to TOPO from your GPS or >download a route and waypoints from TOPO to your GPS. You can also use it >live to show you where you are as you drive down the roads. > >A GPS is useful for just about any angle you can think of to make it >useful in finding a site, finding yourself, finding your car if you saved >the location (waypoint) before walking away (never done that one), sorting >out conflicting roads and access, but mostly I find it's best for >marking/recording a location so you can tell someone else where it is. > >The thing I haven't figured out is what people are doing with all these >route/waypoints they store that they rave about on the GPS forums. When I >go into the woods, I either follow a trail or cut across country where I >don't want to come out the same way --- you don't find anything new by >walking the same path out as you took in! > >As for needing clear sight of the sky, and thus the satellites, the better >the view the better the reception and greater number of satellites that >will be used. My first GPS, a Trimble, had no problem getting a fix in my >home and in moderate forest cover. I am now using a Garmin Etrex Summit >which doesn't do quite as good a job in those conditions. The Garmin is >dieing, so I'm going get a new one that does maps, probably a Garmin GSMAP >76C or CS, despite the fact that I hate the company because it will not >support my Mac. > >Buying advice, get the one with the most functions that you can afford. >When you start using it, you will find that other functions are useful >too. I didn't think having maps on it would be all that useful, but after >traveling with a friend using maps on his, even with that dinky little >screen that shows almost nothing, it is fun using the GPS unit to navigate >on its tiny map, and keep re-enforcing your thoughts that you know where >you are going. > >Regards, > >Lanny > > > > >On Dec 27, 2004, at 6:52 AM, Peter J. Modreski wrote: > >>I'll try to add a few maybe useful comments, T.T./T.J., >> >>I myself have an older, basic Garmin GPS that doesn't contain maps or do any >>of the fancier things. In using it, a difficulty in making its information >>useful is that it's not a lot of help (except in finding your way back to >>your starting point, and knowing which compass direction you're moving) >>unless you've already got locations with coordinates, calculated and written >>down or stored on your unit. >> >>I find that a "most useful" thing to do is to go online in advance and print >>out a map from Topozone, with a geographic point that you want to reach (a >>mountain summit, or an old mine) highlighted & with its lat. & long., or UTM >>coordinates, printed out. Then, you know the coordinates you want to get >>to. Of course, having a CD or a printout giving coordinates of the sites >>(such as old mines) in the vicinity you're exploring, with you, is what >>would be really helpful--such as the MAS/MILS CD (which to be honest, is not >>something I yet have a copy of). Even if you're out in the field and have a >>topo map in front of you, and have your GPS giving your location, it's not >>very easy to plot it on the paper topo map--unless you're all prepared with >>a good flat desk surface, a long straightedge and ruler, a pocket >>calculator, etc. As a general rule, the UTM coordinates are easier to >>transfer to and from a map than lat. & long. are. Some newer USGS topo maps >>have the complete UTM grid printed on the map--that makes it very easy; >>older maps don't, they just have tick marks along the edges, not as >>convenient, so then you have to physically draw straight N-S and E-W pencil >>lines across the length and width of the map, to be able to easily estimate >>between them. It's a big help to have computed the coordinates in advance, >>or have them from MapQuest or from a CD. >> >>I'm sure that using one of those advanced memory GPS units with the maps >>stored in it, is a HUGE help in navigating around the countryside. >> >>best of luck, Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From tim at orerockon.com Mon Jan 3 07:38:25 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Jan 3 07:38:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS mapping software In-Reply-To: References: <20041227194400.18216.qmail@web51004.mail.yahoo.com> <8D489092-5938-11D9-A970-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20050103073156.02605a50@mail.spiritone.com> FWIW, MapSource, which I mentioned in my previous post, works, and works well. I like the software and, most important to me, the forest service and BLM roads are accurately named and numbered, something I can't say about any other mapping software I have tried or read about. In the Ochoco Forest last summer, the GPS knew the names of the roads and spurs I traveled on better than the USFS travel map! That is my biggest beef with the USGS topos; they never (or very rarely, at any rate) have USFS or BLM road numbers or names, which can be frustrating when you are trying to navigate with them as your only source of information. Don't even get me started about the publicly available GIS data; the FS and BLM apparently don't want us to be able to generate GIS maps with their road numbers or names on them :( Then we could make better maps than their weird looking travel maps lol. At 10:36 PM 12/28/2004, you wrote: >It's simply that the mapping GPS units have a lot of memory with software >designed to store and display maps, the others don't have that capability. >The amount of memory and thus amount of map data that can be stored >varies. Some only have gray scale screens some have color. The type and >quality of maps available is also quite variable. Go to Garmin's website >and look at the units they sell and the mapping software they recommend >for more info. > >Lanny > > >On Dec 28, 2004, at 5:25 PM, John Joldersma wrote: > >>>Thanks to everybody who helped with the GPS question. I am almost ready >>>to talk to a salesman. I have another question. What is the practical >>>difference between mapping and non mapping handheld GPS units? John J >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Mon Jan 3 08:25:01 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Mon Jan 3 08:26:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Red, White and Blue In-Reply-To: <20050102170508.0A4D7CB9644@delivery.infowest.com> References: <20050102170508.0A4D7CB9644@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: <41D971DD.1090403@tenforward.com> Hi Everyone, Your welcome. Thank you everyone who took the time to write and comment, I very much appreciate it! One day we'll catch up with the technology (ya, right!) and we'll get a digital camera. We had a 35mm until I left it underground in Montana this Summer in a lower stope system just above the water line. By now, it's under several feet of water. Ah well. No sweat on the barite photo Ronnie, the one I have is actually quite fine. As a desk top image, it is just way too pretty! Fantastic day everyone, take care, John Margaret Malm wrote: >Thank you John; I really enjoyed that! > >margaret > > > >1/1/2005 > >Red, White and Blue > >By John Cornish >j&gcornish@tenforward.com > > > >Hi Everyone, > >Many collectors are aware of the famous Spruce Mine here in Washington >State for its production of world class quartz and pyrite combination >specimens. This mine is located within a very wild and mountainous area >of King County and this area has several other breccias which >additionally produce specimens. All are under private claim and all >require an intensive assault to reach. About a decade ago, I and 5 other >buddies got together to purchase our own mining claim. We purchased the >Big Chief. At the time of my buying into the claim, I'd never even been >there. But while sight unseen, I had seen a pockets specimens as >collected by another local and had been duly impressed. His pocket >produced (among other things) 2 killer flattish plates about 3 inches >wide by 7 inches long whose surfaces were completely covered in a >sparkling forest of 2 inch clear scepters. They were stellar and perfect >and I was excited about the possibilities! > >Soon thereafter, when I finally did make my first trip in, I fairly >buzzed with excitement. Our claim is accessed through a combination of >trail and bushwhacking. Only a small portion of which is level, the >rest... what's that word, oh ya, vertical, the rest is near vertical! >The claim and its breccia are all in a sheer walled canyon and we have >numerous areas covered in ropes so as to allow a somewhat safe crossing >and climb. But back in these earliest days, it was just hang on for dear >life. > >Pockets were to be found with some searching and hard work. Lots of big >bars, sledgehammers and chisel time, but the rewards, they are so very >sweet. On my first trip in, I was fortunate to find my very own pocket >and what a killer it was... But, before I continue, a bit about me. I >like leaving the flats behind, if its sheer, most will avoid it. But >what the heck, if I can hold my hammer in my teeth and wedge my chisel >and my screwdriver in my pockets, I can get there and leave the others >behind. So, while my other partners contented themselves with treasures >below (and found among other things, two 5 foot pockets within the same >distance apart which yielded small 1 inch crystals with fluorescent >phantoms; one 4 foot pocket with 1 inch crystals tipped by reverse >amethyst scepters; a series of pockets which produced up to 1.5 inch >scepters surrounded by a matrix covering of minute japan-law twins; >etc.) I headed up high for what I hoped would be unsearched ground. I >was ascending, scrambling for hand holds and was just about to quit this >foolishness when I spotted twenty feet above me a lip of rock studded >with upward projecting quartz crystals. With renewed vigor, I crammed my >fingers into the rock and pulled myself up. Just below the quartz >crystal jag the rock kind of benched out a bit and there was a smallish >tree rooted into a crack, this became my base camp while I exploited my >pocket. So, here I am, hanging on an exposed face with my pack tangled >up in the limbs of this scrawny twig of a tree and salivating and all >glittery eyed with treasure mere feet away. I took out my day pack and >slung it from a normal position on my back to my chest and put my tools >within mixed with a wad of wrapping material and began my final ascent >up to the pocket. > >I hope I always remember this day. The feeling of my heart thumping in >my throat, the slick sheen of sweat that made my hands a bit clammy on >the rock and that overwhelming thrill of expectations realized when with >a last grunt I pulled myself up to a level where I could look into the >pocket for the very first time, the first person ever to do so and what >a sight it was. The pocket was split into two side by side chambers, >both exposed to the elements. The closest, and the one whose edge plate >I'd seen and which had led me there was about 3.5 feet across and a foot >plus tall and deep and the other was about 2 by 1 by 1 foot and both >were treasure houses of crystalline beauty. The walls were studded with >outward projecting quartz crystals exceptionally up to 4 inches in >length. All of the crystals had a bright white phantom zone within them, >some of which I'd learn later would fluoresce. But before I worked these >ceiling and wall plates out, there was the gravy collecting to do as on >the floors of both pockets lay several perfect, pristine plates which >were complete floaters. I just reached in and lifted them up, their >backsides a forest of smaller crystals. This was awesome. My first trip >up the mountain and I'd found a real killer pocket, how cool was this? > >Soon thereafter, reality set back in and the work began. One word while >I worked which was always formost in my mind was safety, after all, as >far as I was concerned my time on this mortal coil had yet to finish and >I wanted to hang out for awhile more. But as carefully as I worked, as >safe as I was, I still had a few problems and while I'm not very happy >or proud about it, I am happy to say that it was the crystals that >learned to fly a time or two that day and not me! My biggest loss here >was not crystals however, but was almost my wedding ring. Here let me >explain, with all the sweating and pounding, with all the grit and >grunge that covered my hands, I developed a big blood blister behind my >wedding band. It became an irritant and finally I pulled my ring up to >the crease of my knuckle and didn't think another thought of it until >just a bit later I flung out and shook my hand of dirt and heard the >faint, though very unmistakable sound of my wedding ring bouncing off >the rock and falling away. Now to be sure, this was not a good thing, >but even more, a sheer face is not the place to just fling yourself out >from to follow anything, wedding ring or not! But, luck was with me that >day as neither the ring nor I were lost. The ring bouncing down the wall >lodged somehow miraculously against my gear at the base of that scrawny >tree. What luck! I still remember taking a break afterwards to just >settle my heart down and relax a bit. The tension builds up so subtly >until one realizes their shoulders are knots and their teeth are >clenched. A sandwich never tasted so good or water so sweet as when >we're living life to its fullest. > >I collected 3 full backpacks of material from these two pockets before I >was done with them and made as many trips hauling treasure, knuckles >dragging under the weight. After this, I made several more trips and >have managed some fairly decent finds over the years. Lots of phantom >quartz (white, blue, green, black, red) and lots of inclusion quartz's >too (pyrite, hematite, clay, actinolite, barite), occasional pyrite >octahedrons (most are altered to limonite pseudomorphs after pyrite due >to their near surface exposures) and a few other odds and ends (limonite >pseudomorphs after calcite and ankerite, barite macro crystals and >brookite and anatase micro crystals) have complimented my quartz which >has ranged from long and slender to fat and stumpy, from japan law twins >to both scepters and reverse scepters. > >Wonderful times and experiences complimented by wonderful treasures, but >are the best pieces from the claim my own? No, in my opinion they belong >to one of my partners and these treasures did not come from a pocket, >but rather were found loose on one of the small benches which scar the >canyon walls. Here he found 4 loose crystals gathered among the gravel >and moss whose like I and no others have yet recovered, they are >colorlessly clear quartz except for three phantoms which from the >termination down alternate from Red to White to Blue! All American >crystals if ever I've heard of any and as pretty as ever one could ask for. > >And so here we are, the 1st of January in a new year. I've been reading >a bit on the net this morning while the house is quiet and everyone else >is still asleep and have enjoyed several stories where folks have shared >their discoveries and the joys they've experienced while pursuing this >fantastic hobby of ours and thought I'd share my own tale to begin the >year (in one of these stories, the fellow had collected some massive >quartz showing red, white and blue coloration and it got me >thinking...). I sure love this hobby gone mad and wish you all a >wonderful year of exciting discoveries. All the very best and Happy New >Year! > >John > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jan 3 08:48:28 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jan 3 08:48:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: <41D84C7B.3060407@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Maurice wrote: >An UV/Vis spectrometer would also do I guess. Most importantly it has a >UV lightsource with variable wavelength. With some modifications it must >be possible to measure the frequency of the emitted light of a mineral >as function of the frequency of the exicating light (UV). Such a graph >would be a consistent tool for determination I guess. At least it will >be fun to play with. Break out the antiques! Anyone who has an old Beckman UV/VIS spectrometer? Only for small specimens and strictly transmission, of course... The idea looks good but things may be more complex than they seem at first... Picture a crystal that fluoresces a nice deep blue under SW. What you may not see, however is that the fluorescence extends into the LW UV. Ultimately the crystal may fluoresce as a result of its own LW emission. That would effectively spoil any attempt to measure the throughput of the fluorescence through the crystal. You really need a spectrometer that has a fiberglass probe or other means to measure reflected or emitted light. Cheers Axel From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jan 3 09:13:41 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jan 3 09:13:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question In-Reply-To: <007801c4f0fe$717021b0$c9e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: Hi guys I'm throwing in my two cents here: I noticed that many minerals that contain strontium fluoresce. Now, Sr cannot be an activator in the normal meaning of the word by lack of incomplete electron shells. Still, gypsum that contains about 0.5% Sr fluoresces greenish (Betekom and other localities in Belgium). Barite that contains Sr fluoresces blueish green... Mossotite (aragonite with about 10% of the Ca replaced by Sr) fluoresces a bright red (I'm not saying that these things are related, I'm just observing). Celestite from Tarnobrzeg, Poland (Machow Mine) fluoresce brightly white to pinkish or yellowish, depending on the UV-source ... however, gypsum from the same locality is reportedly a very bright fluorescent and contains a high % of Sr. Is there something about the difference in ionic diameter between Ca and Sr that may be a consistent cause of fluorescence through perhaps "repetitive" growth defects? (dislocations that are perhaps systematic throughout the crystal mass of carbonates, sulfates...) Guessing Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens SHM Verzonden: zondag 2 januari 2005 20:08 Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question Hi Kitty (and list), I've been out of e-mail contact for several days now, but returned this morning to find your message (reprinted below) about the phosphorescence of cave calcites. As others have noted in their responses, this is common, very common indeed. If someone gave the answer for how this came about, however, I missed it (somehow my computer always downloads two less e-mails than have come in, so some messages get lost). In any event, the near-white fluorescence and phosphorescence of cave calcite and aragonite generally are due to organic activators. I believe that Will White (Penn State University) and one of his students or colleagues published a paper on this, and I'll have to look through my files, but I remember Will explaining to me that rainwater descending through soils in temperate climates picks up humic and fulvic acids, and these are the activators of fluorescence in cave carbonates precipitated from such waters. Thus, you can thank decomposing vegetation near the surface for the luminescence of cave carbonates below. Other minerals, such as gypsum, celestine, and strontianite, behave similarly, probably from the same cause. Ditto coral (something for you to try, Kitty). Over the years I've noticed some common traits among these minerals, for those examples where the fluorescence is some pastel color close to white. There are only two I can recall right now. First, though the fluorescence commonly is brighter LW than SW, the phosphorescence is the other way around--it is brighter and more enduring after SW excitation. Second, the color of fluorescence is generally a little "cooler" under a SW than a LW lamp. For example, a specimen of calcite that fluoresces pale yellowish white under LW may fluoresce pale bluish white SW. The color shift can be subtle, but it's real. I've never looked into this further, though I imagine there might be considerable information on it in the published record already. If not, Don Halterman and I can generate some emission and excitation spectra of cave calcites when next we have a fluorescence spectrophotometer on-site at the Warren Museum for a little while. That will happen -- we just don't yet know when that will be. Oh yes, almost forgot -- as Don mentioned, there are other minerals that fluoresce due to visible light. Actually there are quite a lot of them. The miners here at Sterling Hill used to have fun with this, by sweeping their cap lamp across a rock face rich in sphalerite and then quickly turning the cap lamp off, to reveal an enduring orange streak across the rock. The chlorophane variety of fluorite will behave similarly, though in that case the color of phosphorescence will be bluish green. Cheers- Earl Verbeek -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill Heacox Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 2:52 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question Here's a question about fluorescence (that may serve to further convince people of my ignorance): A couple of years ago I took a public tour of a cave in central Pennsylvania not far from Penn State U. (while Bill was at an astronomy conference). At one point the guide turned off the dim lights that illuminated the cave and took her large flashlight and pressed it against the wall of the cave. It was an ordinary incandescent flashlight. After about 10 or 15 seconds she turned off the flashlight and there was a circle of phosphorescence glowing from the wall where the light had been. She said something like, "I discovered this by accident, and I'm sorry to say I've never found out what causes it." Bill (my resident astronomer) tells me that phosphorescence from ordinary incandescent light is not terribly unusual. But I'd never seen it before in cave or mine walls or any of our mineral specimens. So my question is, what kind of rock or mineral is likely to do that? Aloha, Kitty (an enthusiastic but non-expert glowhound) _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jan 3 09:16:06 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jan 3 09:15:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: <009301c4f0fb$40a18040$8291fea9@WesMedion1918> Message-ID: Thank you... We're glowing with delight... Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens rocks4u@prodigy.net Verzonden: zondag 2 januari 2005 19:46 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence Yep! You know the lamp well. I'm surprised..umm, maybe not considering whom I'm talking to. Happy New Year to you and all your fellow UV'ers. Wes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 10:20 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > Hi Wes, > > Those would be LW but of a little bit shorter wavelength than the usual > blacklights... It's a high pressure mercury lamp. The higher pressure > suppresses the 254.6 nm spectral line in favor of a line ... darn I forgot > the exact WL but I think it's around 360 nm, give or take. > I have a 125 watt and a 60 watt of those... They take about 5 to 10 > minutes > to warm up and if you shut them down you have to wait until they are > completely cooled of. Also : heavy ballast. > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens rocks4u@prodigy.net > Verzonden: zondag 2 januari 2005 18:00 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > > Axel, > Thanks for your expert information, I find it informative. I'm wondering > about the old Mercury Vapor lamps that were used back in the '40's. I've > used a couple of them and found many more minerals will respond to it than > those on the market today. The lamps also had 100 watts of output and were > used during the Uranium prospecting activities in the 1950's. It takes a > long time for the old lamps to warm up to full output but once they do the > spot light effect is amazing. Rocks will glow from many yards away. It's > my > understanding that Bill has acquired one of these lamps from a mutual > friend. Thanks again for your comments and education. > Cheers! > Wes > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Axel Emmermann" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 8:14 AM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > >> Yes, I think know him ;-)) >> Bill sent me and my friend some stuff from his mine. >> I send him some photos of that stuff. >> >> No, serious, the filters are not the problem. >> SW and MW can be handled with a SW filter and anything north of 320 nm >> will >> pass through a LW filter. No sweat! >> It's just that (as far as I know) there are no affordable lamps with a >> sufficiently broad spectrum that peak at say 330nm or between 255-300 nm. >> >> Axel >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kadok at infowest.com Mon Jan 3 10:10:35 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Mon Jan 3 10:10:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20050102090349.03a34d70@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <20050103181029.4574DCB93AD@delivery.infowest.com> Hi, Kitty -- I remember the sodium vapor lights from back when I was a gay young thing -- they sure did rotten things to colors. I can surely understand why the merchants don't like them. Margaret Here on the Big Island nearly all our streetlights are low pressure Sodium Vapor lamps, the result of a county ordinance back in the 1980's at the request of various telescope directors on Mauna Kea. Astronomers didn't want their viewing diminished by the more common bright white Mercury Vapor lamps; the orange Sodium Vapor lights do not interfere with night vision. One exception is the main tourist shopping/entertainment street on the Kona side of the island, where merchants say women don't like the way they appear under the orange lights. Aloha, Kitty At 06:59 AM 1/2/2005, you wrote: >Axel, >Thanks for your expert information, I find it informative. I'm wondering >about the old Mercury Vapor lamps that were used back in the '40's. I've >used a couple of them and found many more minerals will respond to it than >those on the market today. The lamps also had 100 watts of output and were >used during the Uranium prospecting activities in the 1950's. It takes a >long time for the old lamps to warm up to full output but once they do the >spot light effect is amazing. Rocks will glow from many yards away. It's >my understanding that Bill has acquired one of these lamps from a mutual >friend. Thanks again for your comments and education. >Cheers! >Wes -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004 _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Jan 3 10:14:15 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Jan 3 10:14:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question Message-ID: <010320051814.21108.41D98B76000691E000005274216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Axel, I've wondered this about strontium too--thanks for summarizing these observations about Sr-containing minerals this way. I don't have an answer to it either! Pete -------------- Original message from "Axel Emmermann" : -------------- > Hi guys > > I'm throwing in my two cents here: > > I noticed that many minerals that contain strontium fluoresce. > Now, Sr cannot be an activator in the normal meaning of the word by lack of > incomplete electron shells. > Still, gypsum that contains about 0.5% Sr fluoresces greenish (Betekom and > other localities in Belgium). > Barite that contains Sr fluoresces blueish green... > Mossotite (aragonite with about 10% of the Ca replaced by Sr) fluoresces a > bright red (I'm not saying that these things are related, I'm just > observing). > Celestite from Tarnobrzeg, Poland (Machow Mine) fluoresce brightly white to > pinkish or yellowish, depending on the UV-source ... however, gypsum from > the same locality is reportedly a very bright fluorescent and contains a > high % of Sr. > > Is there something about the difference in ionic diameter between Ca and Sr > that may be a consistent cause of fluorescence through perhaps "repetitive" > growth defects? (dislocations that are perhaps systematic throughout the > crystal mass of carbonates, sulfates...) > > Guessing > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens SHM > Verzonden: zondag 2 januari 2005 20:08 > Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question > > > > Hi Kitty (and list), > > I've been out of e-mail contact for several days now, but returned this > morning to find your message (reprinted below) about the phosphorescence of > cave calcites. As others have noted in their responses, this is common, > very common indeed. If someone gave the answer for how this came about, > however, I missed it (somehow my computer always downloads two less e-mails > than have come in, so some messages get lost). > > In any event, the near-white fluorescence and phosphorescence of cave > calcite and aragonite generally are due to organic activators. I believe > that Will White (Penn State University) and one of his students or > colleagues published a paper on this, and I'll have to look through my > files, but I remember Will explaining to me that rainwater descending > through soils in temperate climates picks up humic and fulvic acids, and > these are the activators of fluorescence in cave carbonates precipitated > from such waters. Thus, you can thank decomposing vegetation near the > surface for the luminescence of cave carbonates below. Other minerals, such > as gypsum, celestine, and strontianite, behave similarly, probably from the > same cause. Ditto coral (something for you to try, Kitty). > > Over the years I've noticed some common traits among these minerals, for > those examples where the fluorescence is some pastel color close to white. > There are only two I can recall right now. First, though the fluorescence > commonly is brighter LW than SW, the phosphorescence is the other way > around--it is brighter and more enduring after SW excitation. Second, the > color of fluorescence is generally a little "cooler" under a SW than a LW > lamp. For example, a specimen of calcite that fluoresces pale yellowish > white under LW may fluoresce pale bluish white SW. The color shift can be > subtle, but it's real. I've never looked into this further, though I > imagine there might be considerable information on it in the published > record already. If not, Don Halterman and I can generate some emission and > excitation spectra of cave calcites when next we have a fluorescence > spectrophotometer on-site at the Warren Museum for a little while. That > will happen -- we just don't yet know when that will be. > > Oh yes, almost forgot -- as Don mentioned, there are other minerals that > fluoresce due to visible light. Actually there are quite a lot of them. > The miners here at Sterling Hill used to have fun with this, by sweeping > their cap lamp across a rock face rich in sphalerite and then quickly > turning the cap lamp off, to reveal an enduring orange streak across the > rock. The chlorophane variety of fluorite will behave similarly, though in > that case the color of phosphorescence will be bluish green. > > Cheers- Earl Verbeek > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill > Heacox > Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 2:52 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question > > Here's a question about fluorescence (that may serve to further convince > people of my ignorance): > > A couple of years ago I took a public tour of a cave in central > Pennsylvania not far from Penn State U. (while Bill was at an astronomy > conference). At one point the guide turned off the dim lights that > illuminated the cave and took her large flashlight and pressed it against > the wall of the cave. It was an ordinary incandescent flashlight. After > about 10 or 15 seconds she turned off the flashlight and there was a circle > of phosphorescence glowing from the wall where the light had been. She > said something like, "I discovered this by accident, and I'm sorry to say > I've never found out what causes it." > > Bill (my resident astronomer) tells me that phosphorescence from ordinary > incandescent light is not terribly unusual. But I'd never seen it before > in cave or mine walls or any of our mineral specimens. So my question is, > what kind of rock or mineral is likely to do that? > > Aloha, Kitty (an enthusiastic but non-expert glowhound) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny at lrream.com Mon Jan 3 10:16:05 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Mon Jan 3 10:14:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garmin GPSMAP 76 In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20050103070746.02603d90@mail.spiritone.com> References: <20041227142258.64297.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com> <001601c4ec23$b181c9a0$56a3490c@pete> <6C1216E5-582D-11D9-B99E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20050103070746.02603d90@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <88CA264E-5DB3-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi Tim, Thanks for the information. There are so many models, even if one just looks at Garmin, it's practically overwhelming. The GPSMAP 76 models have a few things that I want, the color screen and the CS model has a built in barometric altimeter, and having the electronic compass is handy. I looked at the GPS V with Garmins product comparison page, and things may have changed since you bought your V model. Yes, the 76s are much more expensive than the V, I like the V price a lot better. The chart shows that the V only has 19 MB of built in memory vs. the 115 of the 76. It shows both types as coming with Americas Autoroute (or Atlantic) and the V as also being able to use City Select and the 76 as being able to us MapSource. I just looked at the GPS V page and it does not show that it can use the MapSource TOPO US or Canada, only City Select, but the 76 page does show that it can use City Select. In response to your other post, it would be convenient to have the forest road numbers on maps, but not a requirement for me. Although, it will be convenient to have them in MapSource. Oddly, the National Geographic TOPO electronic topos have the FS road numbers on more of the roads than I remember seeing on the USGS paper copies. Of course that might be that with the complete coverage of the TOPO series I've looked at a lot more of them than I have paper copies. Maybe I'll fill up the 1,000 waypoints with mineral localities, 500 must not be enough! Regards, Lanny On Jan 3, 2005, at 7:14 AM, Tim Fisher wrote: > Lanny, FWIW, the GPS V, which is the same price, offers more bang for > the buck, IMO. I got one last spring & love it. For one, it comes with > MapSource, which you have to buy separately with the 76, which is > really cool. I navigated my way around the Whistler BC area with it > last summer & the data was very accurate. For another, it uses > CitySelect data, which the GPSMAP won't accept. Very cool for finding > stuff in a strange city. I used it to find CFN cardlocks on I-5 and it > was better than CFN's own booklet at getting me to the gas station. > The only thing I can say for the GPSMAP over the V is that it stores > 1,000 waypoints, which believe it or not I wouldn't mind having in the > V :) > From shm at tapnet.net Mon Jan 3 10:43:51 2005 From: shm at tapnet.net (SHM) Date: Mon Jan 3 10:44:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: <41D7402D.4080207@att.net> Message-ID: <004801c4f1c4$2bfd6f90$c9e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Don H Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 7:28 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence The Hammer wrote: > How about using fluorescence to determine wether a cut ruby is synthetic or > natural?...how about an older stone? ------------------------- Sorry to come in so late on this one, but here are a few additional comments: Natural rubies show a range in brightness of fluorescence from almost nil to very bright. The problem of low brightness is not due to insufficient activator concentration, for it wouldn't be a ruby without trivalent chromium to color it, and it's trivalent chromium that causes the fluorescence too. Some rubies, though, contain a little iron (as well as other impurities), and this both negatively affects the daylight color and the fluorescence. Synthetic rubies, in contrast, are manufactured for optimum color and contain no iron -- thus they all (in my experience, at least) fluoresce quite brightly. This is a long way from an infallible test, but at least if you have a ruby with only modest or poor fluorescence, changes are pretty good it's natural. Synthetic rubies grown by a flame-fusion process and cut from boules may show curved growth lines under magnification, and these are a sure sign of a synthetic stone. The growth lines are sometimes more visible when the stone is fluorescing. Cheers- Earl Verbeek From kadok at infowest.com Mon Jan 3 10:46:58 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Mon Jan 3 10:46:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: <41D8773B.5010903@att.net> Message-ID: <20050103184651.B1102CB9B19@delivery.infowest.com> Hi, Don. Yes, I did work for Kodak. The spectrophotometer I had was just used in chemical analyses, and for doing scans on filters, etc. An old(even then!) Beckman. Yes, your instrument sounds like just what I had in mind. And, of course, it would be expensive. On the other hand, it's not something everyone would have to have! But it would be interesting to do some scans on minerals on one and see what it showed, wouldn't it? That would be neat! Cheers! Margaret > Well, Don, the only spectrophotometer that I'm familiar with measures > transmission, not fluorescence. Ah yes indeed, there are several flavors of that type of instrument. Didn't you work at Kodak? (Maybe I'm thinking of someone else). It would make sense that they didn't have a UV-VIS excitation-emission spectrophotometer of the type I described. However, the type of instrument which I used does just what you describe--you can tune the excitation parameters, down to the Angstrom, from about 190.0 nm to about 1300.0 nm. Of course, the least you're going to spend on something like this is about $20,000, and the more advanced models run into the hundreds of thousands. That's how I obtained the information about how fluorescent minerals respond. Best, Don _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tim at orerockon.com Mon Jan 3 12:15:13 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Jan 3 12:15:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garmin GPSMAP 76 In-Reply-To: <88CA264E-5DB3-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> References: <20041227142258.64297.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com> <001601c4ec23$b181c9a0$56a3490c@pete> <6C1216E5-582D-11D9-B99E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20050103070746.02603d90@mail.spiritone.com> <88CA264E-5DB3-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20050103120933.02414c98@mail.spiritone.com> Lanny, it hasn't changed, it is the same model, and it came with both MapSource and City Select. I agree that if you want to spend more $$ the 76S is the one to have, but that price! I could buy a new Dell at Costco for that lol. And to be fair, the new USGS 7.5' series maps use USFS road numbers, but I am betting they will get around to Oregon when the cows come home. They have done NW WA and they look much better than the previous series. Sometimes I think the USGS thinks nobody lives in OR or ID. Oops, nobody lives in ID, that's right :-D At 10:16 AM 1/3/2005, you wrote: >Hi Tim, > >Thanks for the information. There are so many models, even if one just >looks at Garmin, it's practically overwhelming. The GPSMAP 76 models have >a few things that I want, the color screen and the CS model has a built in >barometric altimeter, and having the electronic compass is handy. I looked >at the GPS V with Garmins product comparison page, and things may have >changed since you bought your V model. > >Yes, the 76s are much more expensive than the V, I like the V price a lot >better. The chart shows that the V only has 19 MB of built in memory vs. >the 115 of the 76. It shows both types as coming with Americas Autoroute >(or Atlantic) and the V as also being able to use City Select and the 76 >as being able to us MapSource. I just looked at the GPS V page and it does >not show that it can use the MapSource TOPO US or Canada, only City >Select, but the 76 page does show that it can use City Select. > >In response to your other post, it would be convenient to have the forest >road numbers on maps, but not a requirement for me. Although, it will be >convenient to have them in MapSource. Oddly, the National Geographic TOPO >electronic topos have the FS road numbers on more of the roads than I >remember seeing on the USGS paper copies. Of course that might be that >with the complete coverage of the TOPO series I've looked at a lot more of >them than I have paper copies. > >Maybe I'll fill up the 1,000 waypoints with mineral localities, 500 must >not be enough! > >Regards, > >Lanny > >On Jan 3, 2005, at 7:14 AM, Tim Fisher wrote: > >>Lanny, FWIW, the GPS V, which is the same price, offers more bang for the >>buck, IMO. I got one last spring & love it. For one, it comes with >>MapSource, which you have to buy separately with the 76, which is really >>cool. I navigated my way around the Whistler BC area with it last summer >>& the data was very accurate. For another, it uses CitySelect data, which >>the GPSMAP won't accept. Very cool for finding stuff in a strange city. I >>used it to find CFN cardlocks on I-5 and it was better than CFN's own >>booklet at getting me to the gas station. The only thing I can say for >>the GPSMAP over the V is that it stores 1,000 waypoints, which believe it >>or not I wouldn't mind having in the V :) Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Mon Jan 3 12:58:16 2005 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Mon Jan 3 12:58:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41D9B1E8.1020100@xs4all.nl> I KNOW it will be complicated. Really the best option is a fluorimeter. Here the lightsource and the detector are at a 90 angle. With a clear cuvette in place with a liquid, the emmitting light passes through, while the fluorescent light goes in all direction and can be measured. Errors in the reading occur when the quartz cuvette is scratched and the scratches scatter the 'primary' light into the detector. When you replace the cuvette with a mineral sample you do not want is many crystal faces, scattering the primary light everywhere. The best sample would be a clear or transluscent mineral in a 1cm polished cube and no inclusions. The locality of this mineral will be Utopia..... But maybe the problem is not that big. You will for instance set you light to 250nm and measure your mineral emission. When it shows fluorescence you will see one or more peaks, or maybe a one really broad peak. Whatever you see, anything that is not 250nm will be your fluorescence. When you measure at 255nm you leave out the 255nm peak etc. Don't know if it works, if someone sends me a free fluorimeter I'll tell you ;-) Cheers, Maurice Axel Emmermann wrote: >Maurice wrote: > > > >>An UV/Vis spectrometer would also do I guess. Most importantly it has a >>UV lightsource with variable wavelength. With some modifications it must >>be possible to measure the frequency of the emitted light of a mineral >>as function of the frequency of the exicating light (UV). Such a graph >>would be a consistent tool for determination I guess. At least it will >>be fun to play with. >> >> > >Break out the antiques! Anyone who has an old Beckman UV/VIS spectrometer? >Only for small specimens and strictly transmission, of course... >The idea looks good but things may be more complex than they seem at >first... >Picture a crystal that fluoresces a nice deep blue under SW. What you may >not see, however is that the fluorescence extends into the LW UV. Ultimately >the crystal may fluoresce as a result of its own LW emission. That would >effectively spoil any attempt to measure the throughput of the fluorescence >through the crystal. You really need a spectrometer that has a fiberglass >probe or other means to measure reflected or emitted light. > >Cheers > >Axel > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Mon Jan 3 14:08:51 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Mon Jan 3 14:09:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Field Collecting Journals and My 2004 Year End Collecting Statistics Message-ID: <41D9C273.7000501@tenforward.com> 1/3/2005 Field Collecting Journals and My 2004 Year End Collecting Statistics By John Cornish j&gcornish@tenforward.com Hi All, For over twelve years now I've written a Field Collecting Journal which documents all of my mineral and fossil collecting trips during this period. Currently these adventures span four separate volumes with over 900 pages of text, drawings, maps, etc. I've compiled my statistics for this last years collecting, 2004, and have included them following if you've an interest. For me, my journals are constant sources for reference and smiles and for this reason more then any other I hope that you'll consider starting a Field Collecting Journal of your own. As the days pass and our grasp of information becomes more encumbered, we risk losing the details of some of our most extraordinary collecting moments. For me, this was unacceptable. With this decision made, next followed several rounds of internal debate as to how to proceed, after all, I'd been collecting for some time now and what of those trips made prior to my beginning journaling? And so I pondered and all the while other collecting trips memories were lost. In frustration I decided I had to act. No more being wishy-washy, half here and half there, if I was going to start it was time to start. So that's exactly what I did, I started. I went out and purchased a nice looking, inexpensive Shaws Account Book from our local Stationary store which has 300 lined pages and is hard bound. To clarify my thoughts, my first entry introduced myself and explained my reasons for starting the Journal (some of which I've mentioned above). Following this I summed up some of the highlights from past collecting trips and then I was ready for new adventures and new entries. So, armed with all the excuse I needed, I headed out to collect! As I sit here in momentary reflection, a half smile flickering across my lips, that's exactly what I did too, I hit the hills and with a vengeance! As an example, as documented in 1996, that year I hit 113 localities! Just try remembering all of your trips from 1996 and you'll see the obvious benefit of starting your own Collecting Journal! But, for those of you who need additional reasons, I've come prepared with more positive arguments and the best of these is simply curation. We should all strive to curate our collections to some extent or another if we hope to have our collections attain any lasting relevancy. The documentation and histories of our specimens is of utmost import and we should strive for perfection and grace in this regard. Of course if your like me, perfection and grace are often replaced by incompetence and bumbling, still, I aspire! These are just some thoughts, which ever way you go and wherever your path may take you, I wish you fare adventuring each and all! Happy New Year, John 2004 Collecting Statistics 37 Trips/Localities visited total 17 different Localities ---- 13 Minerals, 4 Fossils Most Frequented Locality ----- (a fossil locality) 5th year in a row New Mineral Localities ---- 5 (in Idaho and Montana) Shows I participated in --- 5 (2 of these were new shows) Territory Covered ---- Washington, Idaho, Montana, Oregon, California, Nevada, Arizona, Wyoming, Colorado, Utah Longest Trip ---- 27 days In review of this last year, I find that I'm unwilling to look backwards so much as I'm wanting to look forward to the possibilities of this new year 2005. Thirty seven trips... BAH! Just watch me go this time! Have a great year everyone and all the very best, John --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Jan 4 06:08:11 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jan 4 09:06:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: <41D9B1E8.1020100@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Shall I make you one? All you'd need for such a device: - deuterium lamp with electronics. You'd need a really continous UV spectrum for this - monochromator for that UV range would be a optical quality fluorite prism, I think - Quartz lenses - parabolic mirror for dispersion of spectrum (polished out of massive aluminum block to reduce aberration). - Line-camera (peltier-cooled for weak emissions, in vacuum chamber to prevent fogging by condense). - a diffraction grating, preferably a mirror, to make the spectrum of your emission. - adjustable slit - collimator plates - some more stuff... The difference between your setup and the Beckman is that the latter splits up the light BEFORE it reaches the specimen and not again after passing through. If you 'd measure something, you'd have no idea if it is part of the UV passing through or fluorescence... and you'd have no idea of the wavelengths you're measuring. Not complicated at all ;-))))) Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Maurice de Graaf Verzonden: maandag 3 januari 2005 21:58 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence I KNOW it will be complicated. Really the best option is a fluorimeter. Here the lightsource and the detector are at a 90 angle. With a clear cuvette in place with a liquid, the emmitting light passes through, while the fluorescent light goes in all direction and can be measured. Errors in the reading occur when the quartz cuvette is scratched and the scratches scatter the 'primary' light into the detector. When you replace the cuvette with a mineral sample you do not want is many crystal faces, scattering the primary light everywhere. The best sample would be a clear or transluscent mineral in a 1cm polished cube and no inclusions. The locality of this mineral will be Utopia..... But maybe the problem is not that big. You will for instance set you light to 250nm and measure your mineral emission. When it shows fluorescence you will see one or more peaks, or maybe a one really broad peak. Whatever you see, anything that is not 250nm will be your fluorescence. When you measure at 255nm you leave out the 255nm peak etc. Don't know if it works, if someone sends me a free fluorimeter I'll tell you ;-) Cheers, Maurice Axel Emmermann wrote: >Maurice wrote: > > > >>An UV/Vis spectrometer would also do I guess. Most importantly it has a >>UV lightsource with variable wavelength. With some modifications it must >>be possible to measure the frequency of the emitted light of a mineral >>as function of the frequency of the exicating light (UV). Such a graph >>would be a consistent tool for determination I guess. At least it will >>be fun to play with. >> >> > >Break out the antiques! Anyone who has an old Beckman UV/VIS spectrometer? >Only for small specimens and strictly transmission, of course... >The idea looks good but things may be more complex than they seem at >first... >Picture a crystal that fluoresces a nice deep blue under SW. What you may >not see, however is that the fluorescence extends into the LW UV. Ultimately >the crystal may fluoresce as a result of its own LW emission. That would >effectively spoil any attempt to measure the throughput of the fluorescence >through the crystal. You really need a spectrometer that has a fiberglass >probe or other means to measure reflected or emitted light. > >Cheers > >Axel > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From corndogs at charter.net Tue Jan 4 09:13:53 2005 From: corndogs at charter.net (Brenda LaCroix) Date: Tue Jan 4 09:14:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Corundum Research?!?!?! Message-ID: <005201c4f280$c62166f0$26b27144@dit03r92qai5fx> HI THERE!! Has anyone on this list done any research on corundum, in any aspect?!?!? If you have, would you consider contacting me offlist - corndogs@charter.net - I am going to be working with a current ongoing project dealing with corundum and I would like to gather as much information as I can and put together a list of contacts. As soon as I have more information, I will post it to the list...if no one objects of course :-) I am hoping that with my getting involved with The Project and it growing, corundum will become a word in everyone's vocabulary!!! (I can dream big, can't I?!?! hehehehe!!) THANKS IN ADVANCE for any help any of you can give me!! Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, NE CornDogs@Charter.net Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Mon Jan 3 16:57:40 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Tue Jan 4 09:19:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question References: Message-ID: <001301c4f1f8$659eb5e0$b8a4490c@pete> Hi Axel & List again, Thinking this over some more, I realized that there is a probably reason for the luminescence often associated with minerals that contain strontium. I think it's probably rare earth elements. Minerals that can incorporate Sr can usually also incorporate the REE (the ions are of similar size, though Sr is +2 and most of the REE are +3), and geochemical conditions that are rich in Sr are often also rich in REE. So, I think it's a good guess that at least some minerals that contain some Sr and are fluorescence, probably also contain rare earths. The Sr is more abundant (may be 1% or more), whereas the REE are much more trace constituents (more like 100 ppm plus or minus), but as Axel points out, Sr itself does not have the electronic configuration to cause luminescence; but the REE do. I believe that especially Nd, Sm, Eu, and Dy have the abundance + the electronic structure, to cause luminescence. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 10:13 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question > Hi guys > > I'm throwing in my two cents here: > > I noticed that many minerals that contain strontium fluoresce. > Now, Sr cannot be an activator in the normal meaning of the word by lack of > incomplete electron shells. > Still, gypsum that contains about 0.5% Sr fluoresces greenish (Betekom and > other localities in Belgium). > Barite that contains Sr fluoresces blueish green... > Mossotite (aragonite with about 10% of the Ca replaced by Sr) fluoresces a > bright red (I'm not saying that these things are related, I'm just > observing). > Celestite from Tarnobrzeg, Poland (Machow Mine) fluoresce brightly white to > pinkish or yellowish, depending on the UV-source ... however, gypsum from > the same locality is reportedly a very bright fluorescent and contains a > high % of Sr. > > Is there something about the difference in ionic diameter between Ca and Sr > that may be a consistent cause of fluorescence through perhaps "repetitive" > growth defects? (dislocations that are perhaps systematic throughout the > crystal mass of carbonates, sulfates...) > > Guessing > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens SHM > Verzonden: zondag 2 januari 2005 20:08 > Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question > > > > Hi Kitty (and list), > > I've been out of e-mail contact for several days now, but returned this > morning to find your message (reprinted below) about the phosphorescence of > cave calcites. As others have noted in their responses, this is common, > very common indeed. If someone gave the answer for how this came about, > however, I missed it (somehow my computer always downloads two less e-mails > than have come in, so some messages get lost). > > In any event, the near-white fluorescence and phosphorescence of cave > calcite and aragonite generally are due to organic activators. I believe > that Will White (Penn State University) and one of his students or > colleagues published a paper on this, and I'll have to look through my > files, but I remember Will explaining to me that rainwater descending > through soils in temperate climates picks up humic and fulvic acids, and > these are the activators of fluorescence in cave carbonates precipitated > from such waters. Thus, you can thank decomposing vegetation near the > surface for the luminescence of cave carbonates below. Other minerals, such > as gypsum, celestine, and strontianite, behave similarly, probably from the > same cause. Ditto coral (something for you to try, Kitty). > > Over the years I've noticed some common traits among these minerals, for > those examples where the fluorescence is some pastel color close to white. > There are only two I can recall right now. First, though the fluorescence > commonly is brighter LW than SW, the phosphorescence is the other way > around--it is brighter and more enduring after SW excitation. Second, the > color of fluorescence is generally a little "cooler" under a SW than a LW > lamp. For example, a specimen of calcite that fluoresces pale yellowish > white under LW may fluoresce pale bluish white SW. The color shift can be > subtle, but it's real. I've never looked into this further, though I > imagine there might be considerable information on it in the published > record already. If not, Don Halterman and I can generate some emission and > excitation spectra of cave calcites when next we have a fluorescence > spectrophotometer on-site at the Warren Museum for a little while. That > will happen -- we just don't yet know when that will be. > > Oh yes, almost forgot -- as Don mentioned, there are other minerals that > fluoresce due to visible light. Actually there are quite a lot of them. > The miners here at Sterling Hill used to have fun with this, by sweeping > their cap lamp across a rock face rich in sphalerite and then quickly > turning the cap lamp off, to reveal an enduring orange streak across the > rock. The chlorophane variety of fluorite will behave similarly, though in > that case the color of phosphorescence will be bluish green. > > Cheers- Earl Verbeek > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill > Heacox > Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 2:52 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question > > Here's a question about fluorescence (that may serve to further convince > people of my ignorance): > > A couple of years ago I took a public tour of a cave in central > Pennsylvania not far from Penn State U. (while Bill was at an astronomy > conference). At one point the guide turned off the dim lights that > illuminated the cave and took her large flashlight and pressed it against > the wall of the cave. It was an ordinary incandescent flashlight. After > about 10 or 15 seconds she turned off the flashlight and there was a circle > of phosphorescence glowing from the wall where the light had been. She > said something like, "I discovered this by accident, and I'm sorry to say > I've never found out what causes it." > > Bill (my resident astronomer) tells me that phosphorescence from ordinary > incandescent light is not terribly unusual. But I'd never seen it before > in cave or mine walls or any of our mineral specimens. So my question is, > what kind of rock or mineral is likely to do that? > > Aloha, Kitty (an enthusiastic but non-expert glowhound) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Jan 4 09:22:04 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jan 4 09:21:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: <41D7462B.6040905@att.net> Message-ID: Hi Don, a chemist, hmmm.... a technician in a chemistry lab i a more fitting description of my abilities. However, I like to tinker with science and that makes up fo a lot ;-))) Professor Vochten asked me a few times already to come play in his lab... He has a serious pressure coocker for synthesizing certain minerals... And also a great setup for growing crystals in gel! Renaud holds the record for synth. grown uranocircite XX: 2cm. We're about to embark on a doping trip that does not envolve pharmaceuto-recreational plants or vegetals but rather rare earths and stuff... We just need to find some time, that's the hard part ;-))) Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Don H Verzonden: zondag 2 januari 2005 1:54 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence Axel Emmermann wrote: > I believe however that we may yet be surprised if some clever enineer were > to fill the gap between LW and MW (about 320 to 340 nm) and the ap between > SW ad MW (say 255 nm - 300 nm). Well, I certainly don't want to discourage the effort, but as I pointed out in the earlier post, I never noticed any difference when running excitation scans; that is, I didn't see any reactions that weren't covered by the "big four" wavelengths. Of course, there are hundreds of fluorescent responses, so until we check an example of each and every known fl. species/locality combination, we won't be 100% certain that there aren't any surprises in this area. My man Axel, aren't you a chemist in real life? Perhaps somewhere in the company is a UV-VIS spectrophotometer? Perhaps Dr. Vochten or van Tassel has access to one? Then you can tune your excitation wavelength to whatever you want. Don _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Jan 4 09:57:30 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jan 4 09:56:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question In-Reply-To: <001301c4f1f8$659eb5e0$b8a4490c@pete> Message-ID: Pete wrote: >configuration to cause luminescence; but the REE do. I believe that >especially Nd, Sm, Eu, and Dy have the abundance + the electronic structure, >to cause luminescence. quite possible... but you'd need an awfully expensive spectrometer to resolve the lines that compose the "whitish" color of these fluorescent minerals. Does anyone know of a neodymium-activated mineral? (that one I have in quantity ;-))) Looking at the atomic radius of the REE, it springs to mind that they differ more than those of Ca, Ba and Sr. Usually they are smaller (except gadolinium). Another thing: if the geologic environment that favors Sr-based minerals also favors REE, shouldn't we also find yttrium? That is a known companion of REE and may perhaps be an acivator (not sure though... doubt nagging...) Still, REE are not in the least rare since we find them practically everywhere... On the other hand: caves and karstification involve carbonates being dissolved by a) acid rain and b)...humic acids. Maybe Earl has a point. How would we establish the presence of humic acids? Cheers Axel From morningstar at att.net Mon Jan 3 18:31:13 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Tue Jan 4 09:57:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: <41D9B1E8.1020100@xs4all.nl> References: <41D9B1E8.1020100@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <41D9FFF1.8040308@att.net> Maurice de Graaf wrote: > I KNOW it will be complicated. Really the best option is a fluorimeter. > Here the lightsource and the detector are at a 90 angle. ... > But maybe the problem is not that big. You will for instance set you > light to 250nm and measure your mineral emission. When it shows > fluorescence you will see one or more peaks, or maybe a one really broad > peak. Whatever you see, anything that is not 250nm will be your > fluorescence. When you measure at 255nm you leave out the 255nm peak > etc. Don't know if it works, if someone sends me a free fluorimeter I'll > tell you ;-) Margaret, Maurice, Axel, et al., Indeed your dreams are reality. The instrument I used had a 90 degree reading angle, and could hold a hand-sized specimen in the chamber. There was an optional fused silica fiber optic probe. And in addition, you would typically set the instrument to begin reading just outside the combined values of the excitation and emission slit widths--for example, with a 5nm/5nm slit combination, and an excitation wavelength of 255 nm, you'd begin the scan at 265 nm. Since you would never see fluorescence at a HIGHER energy than the excitation source (Stokes law), there would be no need to measure at or below 255 nm. Occasionally you would see fluorescence very close to the excitation wavelength, in which case you'd use smaller slit widths and start the emission scan a little closer to the excitation value to see just where the curve went. Don H From bassmeister_2000 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 4 09:58:31 2005 From: bassmeister_2000 at yahoo.com (Joe Mulvey) Date: Tue Jan 4 09:58:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] re: Red, White and Blue Message-ID: <20050104175831.81128.qmail@web20023.mail.yahoo.com> Wow! Mr. Cornish, once again, your stories are amazing and great reading! I still recall your trip for fossils in New York. The chill of discovering your own large pocket is hard to imagine - since I've never found any pockets larger than a U.S. quarter! Thank you for the story! A question for the list - does everything eventually change into something else? Limonite, as I have learned is not a mineral, it's more of a "state" of something that was once an identifiable mineral. Mars is red - can we call that limonite too? Regards to all, Joe in digest land ===== Joe Mulvey Nashua, NH -- USA http://www.lostandfoundproject.com http://home.comcast.net/~mgag1 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Dress up your holiday email, Hollywood style. Learn more. http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com From asgardsgc at earthlink.net Tue Jan 4 09:58:47 2005 From: asgardsgc at earthlink.net (Mark Easterbrook) Date: Tue Jan 4 09:58:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] "ASBOG" Message-ID: <13255305.1104861527837.JavaMail.root@statler.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Aaron, I agree. The ASBOG FG test is very much biased toward academia. I have been writing technical reports for years where I work and still could not adequately pass the section on the FG test that dealt with report writing, albeit a small section. The questions were rather convoluted in my opinion. The test is written by academia who must not know how to write a technical report, well at least the ones of which I am familiar. Unless you are engaged in the practice of pure geology it will be difficult to pass this test. I have heard that the passage rate is something less than 30%. But, I will try again to pass the FG. I have already passed the Practice of Geology test (I took both tests the same day). Good luck. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Aaron Fox Sent: Jan 3, 2005 2:55 AM To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Cc: asgardsgc@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] "ASBOG" > exactly what is the ASBOG (Assoc. State Boards of Geology) test for? It's > not something I'm familiar with. Does it relate to, something about > becoming registered in a given state as a "certified professional geologist" > or something like that? My own experience in geology has always been what > you would call on the academic side of things, and I don't have much > familiary with many matters of geology as it relates to civil engineering > and such. Yes. It is a required exam for certification in most (not all) states. Material is basically what you'd cover in a comprehensive geology undergraduate degree, plus a lot of content specifically for engineering and environmental consultants. It's divided into two exams; the Fundamentals of Geology, and the Practice of Geology. The FG is passable by anyone who's got an undergrad geology degree and puts a little time into studying. I see no way for someone who's not worked, either as a consultant or for a government agency, to pass the PG. It's biased against academics. a. -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Jan 4 11:58:44 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Jan 4 11:58:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorescence question Message-ID: <010420051958.4545.41DAF5740002E60A000011C1216037631607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Axel, & the gang, Yes, yttrium is more abundant than most of the other REE, but I don't think it has the electronic configuration to produce luminescence. Many spectrometers do certainly have the resolution to resolve the REE lines. I was just looking for my copy of... the relatively recent Russian book on luminescence of minerals (English translation), not finding it on my bookshelf hence am stumbling over the title... but I know it gives luminescence emission spectra of many REE-containing minerals. I did just pull out an alternative reference book, "Cathodoluminescence of Geological Materials" by D.J. Marshall (1988)-- similar info, the luminescence spectra are just excited by the more energetic electron bombardment instead of UV. In it I see CL emission spectra showing the broad-band peaks of Mn+2 and Eu+2, and sharper emission lines attributed to Dy+3, Eu+3, Sm+3, Er+3, Tb+3, and Tm+3. Dy and Sm seem to be the most commonly observed activators. And you are right, I don't see a single spectrum of a natural mineral with lines identified as Nd+3. Pete -------------- Original message from "Axel Emmermann" : -------------- > Pete wrote: > > >configuration to cause luminescence; but the REE do. I believe that > >especially Nd, Sm, Eu, and Dy have the abundance + the electronic > structure, > >to cause luminescence. > > quite possible... but you'd need an awfully expensive spectrometer to > resolve the lines that compose the "whitish" color of these fluorescent > minerals. > Does anyone know of a neodymium-activated mineral? (that one I have in > quantity ;-))) > Looking at the atomic radius of the REE, it springs to mind that they differ > more than those of Ca, Ba and Sr. Usually they are smaller (except > gadolinium). > Another thing: if the geologic environment that favors Sr-based minerals > also favors REE, shouldn't we also find yttrium? That is a known companion > of REE and may perhaps be an acivator (not sure though... doubt nagging...) > > Still, REE are not in the least rare since we find them practically > everywhere... > > On the other hand: caves and karstification involve carbonates being > dissolved by a) acid rain and b)...humic acids. > Maybe Earl has a point. > > How would we establish the presence of humic acids? > > Cheers > > Axel > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny at lrream.com Tue Jan 4 14:10:14 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Tue Jan 4 14:08:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garmin GPSMAP 76 In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20050103120933.02414c98@mail.spiritone.com> References: <20041227142258.64297.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com> <001601c4ec23$b181c9a0$56a3490c@pete> <6C1216E5-582D-11D9-B99E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20050103070746.02603d90@mail.spiritone.com> <88CA264E-5DB3-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20050103120933.02414c98@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <68FF8202-5E9D-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi Tim, That's odd that the Garmin website doesn't show that the GPS V can use Mapsource, but I am surprised that it came with Mapsource when you bought it, considering the retail price is $116. > Oops, nobody lives in ID, that's right I'm sorry to say you are wrong, it looks like everyone lives in Idaho now, and you can have most of them back. I wonder what the USGS budget is for doing the topographic maps now. It took them forever to get the 71/2 minute series done for the entire country, now so many of them are way out of date as to roads. GPS Map 76CS may be expensive, but I don't have that many toys, so I will probably spend the money on it. I like the large memory for maps and the color screen. It may cost as much as a cheap computer, but the cheap computer is a poor GPS and the extension cord would be way to expensive for field work. Question for those who actually use the "routes" feature on a GPS. What do you really do with it? Someone commented in a message last week (maybe it was Tim) that he downloaded routes from Mapsource or other software with complete route and waypoints, which I could see as being useful in areas where there are a lot more logging roads than are on the topo or forest map, but other than that, does anyone really make routes? Lanny On Jan 3, 2005, at 12:15 PM, Tim Fisher wrote: > Lanny, it hasn't changed, it is the same model, and it came with both > MapSource and City Select. I agree that if you want to spend more $$ > the 76S is the one to have, but that price! I could buy a new Dell at > Costco for that lol. And to be fair, the new USGS 7.5' series maps use > USFS road numbers, but I am betting they will get around to Oregon > when the cows come home. They have done NW WA and they look much > better than the previous series. Sometimes I think the USGS thinks > nobody lives in OR or ID. Oops, nobody lives in ID, that's right :-D > > At 10:16 AM 1/3/2005, you wrote: From lanny at lrream.com Tue Jan 4 14:22:48 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Tue Jan 4 14:21:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Field Collecting Journals and My 2004 Year End Collecting Statistics In-Reply-To: <41D9C273.7000501@tenforward.com> References: <41D9C273.7000501@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <2A767A28-5E9F-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> I would like to second John's suggestion. It's been mentioned many times in this forum the importance of documenting specimens as an important part of curating your collection. I would like to add to this an important point of documenting localities and their access. There's nothing like trying to recall the access to a location (or even the details of the location) many years later when your memory is "surprisingly" not 100% effective at recalling such information. When the locality information is recorded, it is a lot easier to maintain the connection of when and where a specimen was field collected. Fortunately, I picked up the habit from geologic work, and only regret that I didn't start doing it when I was a kid, and that I didn't make the journal detailed until later years. You can't have too much information! Regards, Lanny On Jan 3, 2005, at 2:08 PM, John and Gloria Cornish wrote: > > > 1/3/2005 > > Field Collecting Journals and My 2004 Year End Collecting Statistics > > By John Cornish > j&gcornish@tenforward.com > > > > > > Hi All, > For over twelve years now I've written a Field Collecting Journal > which documents all of my mineral and fossil collecting trips during > this period. Currently these adventures span four separate volumes > with over 900 pages of text, drawings, maps, etc. I've compiled my > statistics for this last years collecting, 2004, and have included > them following if you've an interest. For me, my journals are constant > sources for reference and smiles and for this reason more then any > other I hope that you'll consider starting a Field Collecting Journal > of your own. > As the days pass and our grasp of information becomes more encumbered, > we risk losing the details of some of our most extraordinary > collecting moments. For me, this was unacceptable. With this decision > made, next followed several rounds of internal debate as to how to > proceed, after all, I'd been collecting for some time now and what of > those trips made prior to my beginning journaling? And so I pondered > and all the while other collecting trips memories were lost. In > frustration I decided I had to act. No more being wishy-washy, half > here and half there, if I was going to start it was time to start. So > that's exactly what I did, I started. I went out and purchased a nice > looking, inexpensive Shaws Account Book from our local Stationary > store which has 300 lined pages and is hard bound. To clarify my > thoughts, my first entry introduced myself and explained my reasons > for starting the Journal (some of which I've mentioned above). > Following this I summed up some of the highlights from past collecting > trips and then I was ready for new adventures and new entries. So, > armed with all the excuse I needed, I headed out to collect! > As I sit here in momentary reflection, a half smile flickering across > my lips, that's exactly what I did too, I hit the hills and with a > vengeance! As an example, as documented in 1996, that year I hit 113 > localities! Just try remembering all of your trips from 1996 and > you'll see the obvious benefit of starting your own Collecting > Journal! But, for those of you who need additional reasons, I've come > prepared with more positive arguments and the best of these is simply > curation. We should all strive to curate our collections to some > extent or another if we hope to have our collections attain any > lasting relevancy. The documentation and histories of our specimens is > of utmost import and we should strive for perfection and grace in this > regard. Of course if your like me, perfection and grace are often > replaced by incompetence and bumbling, still, I aspire! These are > just some thoughts, which ever way you go and wherever your path may > take you, I wish you fare adventuring each and all! > Happy New Year, > John > > 2004 Collecting Statistics > > 37 Trips/Localities visited total > 17 different Localities ---- 13 Minerals, 4 Fossils > Most Frequented Locality ----- (a fossil locality) 5th year in a row > New Mineral Localities ---- 5 (in Idaho and Montana) > Shows I participated in --- 5 (2 of these were new shows) > > Territory Covered ---- Washington, Idaho, Montana, Oregon, California, > Nevada, Arizona, Wyoming, Colorado, Utah > Longest Trip ---- 27 days > > In review of this last year, I find that I'm unwilling to look > backwards so much as I'm wanting to look forward to the possibilities > of this new year 2005. Thirty seven trips... BAH! Just watch me go > this time! Have a great year everyone and all the very best, > > John > > From jbryankramer at msn.com Tue Jan 4 14:48:16 2005 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Jan 4 14:48:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: <20050103181029.4574DCB93AD@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: Actually its not night vision, per se, that is the problem. Its been many a year since astronomers looked thru a telescope. The problem is the emission lines from the lamps, sodium's lines are easier to eliminate from spectrograms. Mercury lamps generate a lot of lines and maybe, iirc, some continuous emissions too. -------Original Message----- -- --Hi, Kitty -- I remember the sodium vapor lights from back --when I was a gay young thing -- they sure did rotten things --to colors. I can surely understand why the merchants don't like them. -- --Margaret -- --Here on the Big Island nearly all our streetlights are low --pressure Sodium --Vapor lamps, the result of a county ordinance back in the --1980's at the --request of various telescope directors on Mauna Kea. --Astronomers didn't --want their viewing diminished by the more common bright white --Mercury Vapor --lamps; the orange Sodium Vapor lights do not interfere with night --vision. One exception is the main tourist --shopping/entertainment street on --the Kona side of the island, where merchants say women don't --like the way --they appear under the orange lights. -- --Aloha, Kitty -- -- --At 06:59 AM 1/2/2005, you wrote: -- -->Axel, -->Thanks for your expert information, I find it informative. I'm -->wondering -->about the old Mercury Vapor lamps that were used back in the --'40's. I've -->used a couple of them and found many more minerals will --respond to it than -->those on the market today. The lamps also had 100 watts of --output and were -->used during the Uranium prospecting activities in the --1950's. It takes a -->long time for the old lamps to warm up to full output but --once they do the -->spot light effect is amazing. Rocks will glow from many --yards away. It's -->my understanding that Bill has acquired one of these lamps --from a mutual -->friend. Thanks again for your comments and education. -->Cheers! -->Wes -- -- ---- --No virus found in this outgoing message. --Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. --Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004 -- -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- -- -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- From jbryankramer at msn.com Tue Jan 4 15:20:03 2005 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Jan 4 15:20:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] comet and meteors visible In-Reply-To: <002a01c4f128$97a38b40$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: The comet is supposed to be near the Pleiades now, IIRC. Bryan -------Original Message----- -- --I saw it last month when it was SW of Orion. It was barely naked eye --visibility then. We haven't had much clear weather lately, so --I haven't had --the chance to spot it in binoculars from my suburban back yard. -- --Alan -- ------- Original Message ----- --From: "Peter J. Modreski" --To: "Rockhounds@Lists.Drizzle.Com" --Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 11:37 AM --Subject: [Rockhounds] comet and meteors visible -- -- --Dear Rockhounds List, -- --Maybe this borders on off-topic, but after all, Kitty posts --messages about --hot lava rocks-in-the-making being visible in Hawaii, so I'll --post one about --some neat rocks sailing by outside the earth that are readily --visible right --now. -- --First the comet; you might like to know that Comet Machholz --is very easily --visible in evening skies, as a fuzzy near-circular spot in --the constellation --Taurus, below the Pleiades. I could see it very clearly with --binoculars --last night; it's supposed to be visible to the naked eye, but --it takes a --darker environment than here in the Denver suburbs. You can --see a picture & --info about it on www.spaceweather.com . It's supposed to --have a distinctly --green color (hey, do you think luminescence of the cometary --dust plays a --role in that)--I don't think I could see that--and on magnificent, a --separate "ion tail" is visible. The comet is approaching the --earth, and I --believe that's why the tail we see isn't a streak, but just a --near-circular --pattern since we're looking at it head on. -- --No, it's not supposed to hit the earth--but I'll put in a --plug for a good --book, if you've never read it, "Lucifer's Hammer", written --back in the 70's --I think, is an excellent and suspenseful story about a --multiple-impact comet --colliding with earth. Luis Alvarez himself is supposed to --have recommended --this as good reading for anyone who wants a realistic view of --what a major --impact would be like (not pleasant)--speaking of tsunamis and such. -- --The comet is now visible to the right of Aldebaran and below --and a little to --the right of the Pleiades, high in the south sky. It moves --significantly --each night, and will be just to the right (west) of the --Pleiades by about --Jan. 7. I could even see its position to nearby stars change --significantly --last night, between observing it at about 7 p.m. vs. later at 10 p.m. -- --And then the meteors, the Quadrantid meteor shower is --supposed to be visible --before dawn tomorrow morning, Monday Jan. 3. It's supposed --to be readily --visible in western North America, with the peak of the shower --around 4 a.m.; --look ENE. If you're a REAL optimist, get out your catcher's --mitt and maybe --you can snag one of the larger chips if it makes it way through the --atmosphere into your backyard, and you'll have a superbly --valuable specimen! --The shower is also described on spaceweather.com . -- --(Yes, I realize that they are only sand-grain size and don't --normally make --it to the surface, except as floating "cosmic dust" grains--a --pity.) But --think about it (speaking of incandescence now, though --luminescence plays a --role too)--meteors are known to become visible as they enter --the outer --atmosphere at a height of about 60 miles, give or take 50%. --And they're --visible from the surface; that means, that a grain of sand, --60 miles away on --the top of Pikes Peak (as I view it from here in Denver) if --it were that hot --would be giving off enough light to be visible at that --distance, if it were --a meteor up in the sky! (Of course, the atmosphere path 60 --miles straight --up is a lot thinner and clearer than the 60 miles across the --surface from --here to Pikes Peak.) But those little things are REALLY hot! --Plus the --luminescence. -- --Wishing everyone have a great January 2 of a new year, -- --Pete -- -- ----- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative -- text/plain (text body -- kept) -- text/html ----- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- From prgilmore at hotmail.com Tue Jan 4 15:31:00 2005 From: prgilmore at hotmail.com (Paul Gilmore) Date: Tue Jan 4 15:31:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] ?Topaz fluorescence, Tamminen pegmatite Message-ID: Folks: Does topaz fluoresce in short wave UV light? I have a hard, pale blue gemmy micromineral that might be orthorhombic, in a piece of granite pegmatite matrix from the Tamminen Quarry in Greenwood, Maine. It fluoresces pale green. Fluorapatite in this particular matrix is abundant, hexagonal and flesh colored, and fluoresces yellow, so I doubt it's apatite (though blue apatitie is well known from this locality). Paul Gilmore Andover, MA From cjkuo at verizon.net Tue Jan 4 15:34:17 2005 From: cjkuo at verizon.net (Jimmy Kuo) Date: Tue Jan 4 15:36:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence References: Message-ID: <00ae01c4f2b5$e9027030$1902a8c0@LOSJKUOLT2> >Mercury lamps generate a lot of lines and maybe, iirc, some > continuous emissions too. I presume that was meant to be emissions covering continuous frequencies. So, my question. Is that even theoretically possible? I mean, electron orbitals are of specific states. Any emission must conform to a difference between states. How can one get a continuous spectrum? Jimmy From jbryankramer at msn.com Tue Jan 4 16:08:41 2005 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Jan 4 16:09:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: <00ae01c4f2b5$e9027030$1902a8c0@LOSJKUOLT2> Message-ID: Continious emission are generated by heating something up, icandescent lamps are one example. Emission spectra occur when atoms are excited and you get the orbital jumps you are referring to below. I thought that mercury lamps were mixed mode and did both, mercury lamps do contain phosphors to convert the uv emitted to visible light. Look at this page for the spectra: http://www.physics.umd.edu/lecdem/services/demos/demosn2/n2-06.htm Bryan -------Original Message----- -- -->Mercury lamps generate a lot of lines and maybe, iirc, some --continuous -->emissions too. -- --I presume that was meant to be emissions covering continuous --frequencies. -- --So, my question. Is that even theoretically possible? I --mean, electron orbitals are of specific states. Any emission --must conform to a difference between states. How can one get --a continuous spectrum? -- --Jimmy -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Tue Jan 4 16:20:52 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Tue Jan 4 16:11:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] ?Topaz fluorescence etc. References: Message-ID: <003501c4f2bc$7196d3e0$34a4490c@pete> Some topaz does fluoresce; most does not, but some does. I believe the color can vary--topaz from several localities fl. yellow, but elsewhere, I believe it can include bluish to whitish tints; I don't know that I've seen greenish. This probably doesn't help much; just, "could be". The Henkel Glossary of Fluorescent Minerals lists for topaz, yellow, orange, cream, pink, light green, white, bluish white, olive green. So, there are greenish colors! P.S., re. Jimmy Kuo's question (sneaking in an answer on the wrong thread here), I think I used to know why you can get a continuous spectrum, but don't quite remember the reasoning. But I believe a higher-pressure gas will emit more of a spectrum in continuous (mercury) lines, whereas at low pressure, the lines will all be sharp. Has something to do with the interaction between colliding molecules, I assume. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Gilmore" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 4:31 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] ?Topaz fluorescence, Tamminen pegmatite > Folks: > > Does topaz fluoresce in short wave UV light? I have a hard, pale blue gemmy > micromineral that might be orthorhombic, in a piece of granite pegmatite > matrix from the Tamminen Quarry in Greenwood, Maine. It fluoresces pale > green. Fluorapatite in this particular matrix is abundant, hexagonal and > flesh colored, and fluoresces yellow, so I doubt it's apatite (though blue > apatitie is well known from this locality). > > Paul Gilmore > Andover, MA > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tim at orerockon.com Tue Jan 4 16:19:13 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Jan 4 16:19:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garmin GPSMAP 76 In-Reply-To: <68FF8202-5E9D-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> References: <20041227142258.64297.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com> <001601c4ec23$b181c9a0$56a3490c@pete> <6C1216E5-582D-11D9-B99E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20050103070746.02603d90@mail.spiritone.com> <88CA264E-5DB3-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20050103120933.02414c98@mail.spiritone.com> <68FF8202-5E9D-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20050104160801.02cc5560@mail.spiritone.com> Lanny, I think you are confused. Here is the page for the GPS V; it lists for $321. I got mine off Ebay for $279. http://www.garmin.com/products/gps5/ I'm glad to see that the California is moving over there instead of Portland. You can have them! Last time I was in Spokane I swear I saw more out of state than in state plates. And yes I use routes frequently, both for work and rockhounding. For work, I usually mark off the boundaries of a project that I am locating, i.e. a habitat restoration project on 1/2 mile of stream, to make a shape or a line that I can import into AllTopo maps. For rockhounding, I always use routes when I am driving or hiking on a road that is not on the 7.5' topo, or traveling off-road. Then I load the route into All Topo maps from the GPS and make it look like a road on the topo. Works better than drawing the roads on my maps by hand. I have compared my routes back to the 7.5' map when I was not sure where I was (in order to correctly display the route I took to a dig). I am amazed by the accuracy of the 7.5' roads in many instances; however quite a few are not where they are in the "real world". Roads even move, like the road that was rebuilt in between the White Fir and Steins Pillar thunderegg areas last summer. I mapped a different alignment in several segments and several new spurs that were not even on the Ochoco Forest map. Found new eggs the whole way too, which I dutifully GPSed :) At 02:10 PM 1/4/2005, you wrote: >Hi Tim, > >That's odd that the Garmin website doesn't show that the GPS V can use >Mapsource, but I am surprised that it came with Mapsource when you bought >it, considering the retail price is $116. > >>Oops, nobody lives in ID, that's right > >I'm sorry to say you are wrong, it looks like everyone lives in Idaho now, >and you can have most of them back. > >I wonder what the USGS budget is for doing the topographic maps now. It >took them forever to get the 71/2 minute series done for the entire >country, now so many of them are way out of date as to roads. > >GPS Map 76CS may be expensive, but I don't have that many toys, so I will >probably spend the money on it. I like the large memory for maps and the >color screen. It may cost as much as a cheap computer, but the cheap >computer is a poor GPS and the extension cord would be way to expensive >for field work. > >Question for those who actually use the "routes" feature on a GPS. What do >you really do with it? Someone commented in a message last week (maybe it >was Tim) that he downloaded routes from Mapsource or other software with >complete route and waypoints, which I could see as being useful in areas >where there are a lot more logging roads than are on the topo or forest >map, but other than that, does anyone really make routes? > >Lanny > > >On Jan 3, 2005, at 12:15 PM, Tim Fisher wrote: > >>Lanny, it hasn't changed, it is the same model, and it came with both >>MapSource and City Select. I agree that if you want to spend more $$ the >>76S is the one to have, but that price! I could buy a new Dell at Costco >>for that lol. And to be fair, the new USGS 7.5' series maps use USFS road >>numbers, but I am betting they will get around to Oregon when the cows >>come home. They have done NW WA and they look much better than the >>previous series. Sometimes I think the USGS thinks nobody lives in OR or >>ID. Oops, nobody lives in ID, that's right :-D > >Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com >Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From morningstar at att.net Tue Jan 4 17:18:03 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Tue Jan 4 17:15:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garmin GPSMAP 76 In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20050104160801.02cc5560@mail.spiritone.com> References: <20041227142258.64297.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com> <001601c4ec23$b181c9a0$56a3490c@pete> <6C1216E5-582D-11D9-B99E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20050103070746.02603d90@mail.spiritone.com> <88CA264E-5DB3-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20050103120933.02414c98@mail.spiritone.com> <68FF8202-5E9D-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20050104160801.02cc5560@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <41DB404B.8070401@att.net> Tim Fisher wrote: > Lanny, I think you are confused. Here is the page for the GPS V; it > lists for $321. I got mine off Ebay for $279. > > http://www.garmin.com/products/gps5/ Howdy, Nice link--I read it, but I'm not sure about this discussion you two are having. I am trying to help a geologist (a real geologist) pick a GPS to buy, on a limited budget, and he liked my Garmin GPS III+. I know that there is better out there now, like the Garmin V. Doesn't it have waypoints? If someone wants to map data points around a few-square-mile area, would the V be good enough? I know the III+ was the common man's workhorse in its day, and it still does what I need it to do. I just want to recommend something for him that will do what he needs it to do and not spend more than he really needs to spend. Thanks, Don From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Tue Jan 4 18:31:05 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Tue Jan 4 18:31:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meaningfull locality data in perspective References: <3k01ib$jlg2mv@mxip19a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <007601c4f2ce$9b711240$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I can understand the need to establish a subscription service for something like "mindat." However, I could not afford to pay $100 a year to do it. Nor would I be inclined to pay for the "previlege" of uploading hundreds of locality and mineral photos for others to enjoy. If there was a risk of mindat failing because its creator decides to head another direction, I see a couple of options. 1) Make sure that there a half-dozen site managers who could manage the site. People could come and go and the web site could survive "by committee." 2) Turn the web site over to a mineral organization or business with the personel and / or capital to operate it as a business or as a service. 3) Other revenue sources to help support it (advertisers, classifieds, etc.) which may or may not succeed. Of course, look at Matrix. With Jay's death, has the future of that resource ended? Will IT become another footnote in the history of geo-literature? Until inexpensive computers weigh as much as small books with easy-to-read screens, books and magazines will still be the major mechanism for reading in bed, the "reading room", on the easy chair, porch swing or on the beach. I like the flexibility of being able to carry a magazine around with me and slipping in a couple of minutes to read a page or two. I don't have a computer that is anywhere close to being able to let me do that with the same quality. There is also something to be said for being in places without battery chargers, etc. Of course, the next generation or two may grow up using electronic media and find the paper media to be "quaint" like the abacus or horse and buggy. The issue of CD's and DVD's as a long-term storage medium is a valid concern. Most of the data from NASA's pre-1980 missions are impossible to access because there is no working equipment to read it! Digital cameras are a great tool, but in 100 years, we might find that this is the dark-ages of photography because so few images were actually printed and everything else is in an unreadible storage medium. I will be optimistic and hope that future electronic engineers will design a universal data reader that can decipher any electronic medium from magnetic tape to CD's to 5" floppies to flashcards. Anyway, that is my input on the subject. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tommy Armstrong" To: "'Rock Currier'" ; "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Cc: "'Rock Currier'" Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 12:52 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Meaningfull locality data in perspective > > > > Rock did not get much response to his idea, but I think it has a great > deal > of merit. > I would like to throw out one more suggestion. I think that this > undertaking > is very analogous to Microsofts knowledge base and develeoper subscription > service. Once one subscribes by paying an annual subscription, he has > access > to the website and all of the material on it. ALSO once a quarter, the > developer receives a CD with all the previous stuff up to the date of the > CD--that is a cumlative CD. When you get your CD, you simply throw away > the > other one (or shelve it) as all the current stuff as well as the past > stuff > is consolidated. Now the beauty of this is that you do not necessarily > have > to be online to use it, and if Microsoft's website got destroyed, you > would > still have a copy. > > Now of course my analogy using MS is a bit far fetched as it will unlikely > not go out of business for a long time. But Mindat very well could--after > all it is a tremendous amount of work not only from the owner but from all > the contributors. The owner has provided a great service for the > community, > but sooner or later, he will tire of it (or die). Now the problem with > this > concept would be who would actually create the CD. If all the data could > be > made available for download by the subscriber, he himself could create his > own. Broadband is here to stay for the forseeable future. We are of course > talking about data that would probably not fit onto one CD and maybe not a > DVD, but I think for the future achiving of this valuable information, > some > kind of semi-hard copy needs to be created. And the subscriber should be > able to obtain one. Even CD's are projected to have to be recopied once > every 10 to 100 years now--no one really knows what the life expectancy of > the various media are as they are brand new. > > We do not know what kind of electronic storeage will be used in the future > and what type of file formats. This is a very serious problem when talking > about archival preservation. What we do know is that the printed word on > paper has been known to last at least 500 years (really a lot longer than > that). And we do have a good grasp on how to preserve it. > > The idea Rock has of having this type of resource funded is a very > important > idea that should be addressed by the community. As much as I use Mindat, I > would be willing to pony up. > > Rock wrote: "The future of all literature is going to be electronic rather > than hard copy based. " > Now that may or may not be true--but I rather doubt that people will ever > want to read Master and Commander curled up in bed with an electronic > device > or sit on the beach and read Tolstoy on a monitor. The art of literature > was > created to be read in books--and I for one do not see serious readers of > literature forsaking the experience of turning the pages of a book for > scrolling around a screen. It is true that much of literature is created > on > a computer, and transmitted by a computer, and published by a computer, > but > it is still read in the form of a book. When TV came out, people thought > it > would put radio and the movies out of business. But going to a movie at a > theater is a different experience than watching TV--it is a different > media. > Just a electronic publishing and book publishing are different media. > > Electronic publishing is great for information--for filtering--for > accessing, but it is not good for reading poetry or a novel. > > Tommy Armstrong > > "Creativity is the marvelous capacity to grasp distinct realities and draw > a > spark from their juxtaposition." > Max Ernst From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Tue Jan 4 18:38:00 2005 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Tue Jan 4 18:36:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Corundum Research?!?!?! In-Reply-To: <005201c4f280$c62166f0$26b27144@dit03r92qai5fx> Message-ID: Hi Brenda, The very best thing you can do in researching corundum is to get yourself a copy of Richard Hughes' book "Ruby & Sapphire." Wonderfully written, magisterial, comprehensive, full of fascinating and funny anecdotes, locality information, technical background, everything. The book (ISBN No. 0-9645097-6-8) is available from RWH Publishing 4946 Clubhouse Circle Boulder CO 80301-3725 tel 303 530 7975; fax 303 530 7975 or contact Richard Hughes at Pala International 1 800 854 1598 or Cheers, Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada ============== On Tuesday, January 4, 2005, at 01:13 PM, Brenda LaCroix wrote: > HI THERE!! > > Has anyone on this list done any research on corundum, in any > aspect?!?!? > > If you have, would you consider contacting me offlist - > corndogs@charter.net - I am going to be working with a current ongoing > project dealing with corundum and I would like to gather as much > information as I can and put together a list of contacts. > > As soon as I have more information, I will post it to the list...if no > one objects of course :-) I am hoping that with my getting involved > with The Project and it growing, corundum will become a word in > everyone's vocabulary!!! (I can dream big, can't I?!?! hehehehe!!) > > THANKS IN ADVANCE for any help any of you can give me!! > Brenda > Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan > > Assisting Boston Terriers > > Kearney, NE > > CornDogs@Charter.net > > Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston > Terriers > > To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the > World! > > Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because > your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely > what others think you are. ~Author Unknown > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From diente at prismnet.com Tue Jan 4 21:05:09 2005 From: diente at prismnet.com (diente@prismnet.com) Date: Tue Jan 4 21:05:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Corundum Research?!?!?! In-Reply-To: <005201c4f280$c62166f0$26b27144@dit03r92qai5fx> Message-ID: <41DB2125.21170.67F8CC6@localhost> Will Heierman has an ongoing research project on corundum. He is well known in the field. Check out www.corundiminium.com Paul Bordovsky Austin, TX > Has anyone on this list done any research on corundum, in any aspect?!?!? > > If you have, would you consider contacting me offlist - corndogs@charter.net - I am going to be working with a current ongoing project dealing with corundum and I would like to gather as much information as I can and put together a list of contacts. From hptdesigns at charter.net Tue Jan 4 21:16:12 2005 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Tue Jan 4 21:09:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescennt LEDs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3k70mg$k81qjh@mxip15a.cluster1.charter.net> Just read article that guy at University of South Carolina had created an LED that emmitted at 250-255 nm. This is getting mighty close to short wave mercury lamps or is at the same wave length. If indeed, which I have no doubts, that these will be produced --the market out there is just too incredibly large for them not to be developed, they would make very nice black lights for mineral collectors. The real market will be in water and wastewater plants for disinfection and that market is almost unlimited, especially with EPA regulations concerning chlorine limits in waste water discharges. http://www.ee.sc.edu/Events/DissertationDefense-18Nov04-Wu.htm http://www.compoundsemiconductor.net/articles/magazine/10/5/1/2#cssuvos1_5-0 4 Tommy Armstrong "Science is extraordinarily stupid about people as people and the consequence of this stupidity is going to do us all in if we don't do something about it" Walker Percy From lanny at lrream.com Tue Jan 4 21:41:38 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Tue Jan 4 21:39:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garmin GPSMAP 76 In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20050104160801.02cc5560@mail.spiritone.com> References: <20041227142258.64297.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com> <001601c4ec23$b181c9a0$56a3490c@pete> <6C1216E5-582D-11D9-B99E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20050103070746.02603d90@mail.spiritone.com> <88CA264E-5DB3-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20050103120933.02414c98@mail.spiritone.com> <68FF8202-5E9D-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20050104160801.02cc5560@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <783DDAA8-5EDC-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi Tim, That is the page I was looking at when I wrote that the V does not come with Mapsource. I guess I should have asked up front just what Mapsource you meant. I was thinking of Mapsource Topo US, but I guess you were talking about Mapsource CitySelect. The way your original message was written, I thought you were mentioning how useful you found CitySelect as a separate thing. I'm not interested in CitySelect, so it doesn't matter to me if it isn't included. I'm interested in the included Autoroute as something convenient to use much like a roadmap, and Topo US for use in the field, although I would rather it was 1:24,000 scale like the MapSource National Parks. Lanny On Jan 4, 2005, at 4:19 PM, Tim Fisher wrote: > Lanny, I think you are confused. Here is the page for the GPS V; it > lists for $321. I got mine off Ebay for $279. > > http://www.garmin.com/products/gps5/ > > I'm glad to see that the California is moving over there instead of > Portland. You can have them! Last time I was in Spokane I swear I saw > more out of state than in state plates. > > And yes I use routes frequently, both for work and rockhounding. For > work, I usually mark off the boundaries of a project that I am > locating, i.e. a habitat restoration project on 1/2 mile of stream, to > make a shape or a line that I can import into AllTopo maps. For > rockhounding, I always use routes when I am driving or hiking on a > road that is not on the 7.5' topo, or traveling off-road. Then I load > the route into All Topo maps from the GPS and make it look like a road > on the topo. Works better than drawing the roads on my maps by hand. > I have compared my routes back to the 7.5' map when I was not sure > where I was (in order to correctly display the route I took to a dig). > I am amazed by the accuracy of the 7.5' roads in many instances; > however quite a few are not where they are in the "real world". Roads > even move, like the road that was rebuilt in between the White Fir and > Steins Pillar thunderegg areas last summer. I mapped a different > alignment in several segments and several new spurs that were not even > on the Ochoco Forest map. Found new eggs the whole way too, which I > dutifully GPSed :) > > At 02:10 PM 1/4/2005, you wrote: > >> Hi Tim, >> >> That's odd that the Garmin website doesn't show that the GPS V can >> use Mapsource, but I am surprised that it came with Mapsource when >> you bought it, considering the retail price is $116. >> >>> Oops, nobody lives in ID, that's right >> >> I'm sorry to say you are wrong, it looks like everyone lives in Idaho >> now, and you can have most of them back. >> >> I wonder what the USGS budget is for doing the topographic maps now. >> It took them forever to get the 71/2 minute series done for the >> entire country, now so many of them are way out of date as to roads. >> >> GPS Map 76CS may be expensive, but I don't have that many toys, so I >> will probably spend the money on it. I like the large memory for maps >> and the color screen. It may cost as much as a cheap computer, but >> the cheap computer is a poor GPS and the extension cord would be way >> to expensive for field work. >> >> Question for those who actually use the "routes" feature on a GPS. >> What do you really do with it? Someone commented in a message last >> week (maybe it was Tim) that he downloaded routes from Mapsource or >> other software with complete route and waypoints, which I could see >> as being useful in areas where there are a lot more logging roads >> than are on the topo or forest map, but other than that, does anyone >> really make routes? >> >> Lanny >> >> >> On Jan 3, 2005, at 12:15 PM, Tim Fisher wrote: >> >>> Lanny, it hasn't changed, it is the same model, and it came with >>> both MapSource and City Select. I agree that if you want to spend >>> more $$ the 76S is the one to have, but that price! I could buy a >>> new Dell at Costco for that lol. And to be fair, the new USGS 7.5' >>> series maps use USFS road numbers, but I am betting they will get >>> around to Oregon when the cows come home. They have done NW WA and >>> they look much better than the previous series. Sometimes I think >>> the USGS thinks nobody lives in OR or ID. Oops, nobody lives in ID, >>> that's right :-D >> >> Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com >> Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From lanny at lrream.com Tue Jan 4 22:04:30 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Tue Jan 4 22:02:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meaningfull locality data in perspective In-Reply-To: <007601c4f2ce$9b711240$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> References: <3k01ib$jlg2mv@mxip19a.cluster1.charter.net> <007601c4f2ce$9b711240$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: Hi Alan, On Jan 4, 2005, at 6:31 PM, Alan Goldstein wrote: > Of course, look at Matrix. With Jay's death, has the future of that > resource ended? Will IT become another footnote in the history of > geo-literature? Yes, it has ended. > Until inexpensive computers weigh as much as small books with > easy-to-read screens, books and magazines will still be the major > mechanism for reading in bed, the "reading room", on the easy chair, > porch swing or on the beach. I like the flexibility of being able to > carry a magazine around with me and slipping in a couple of minutes to > read a page or two. I don't have a computer that is anywhere close to > being able to let me do that with the same quality. There is also > something to be said for being in places without battery chargers, > etc. Of course, the next generation or two may grow up using > electronic media and find the paper media to be "quaint" like the > abacus or horse and buggy. There are ebook readers, but they aren't a big thing yet, and a lot of people read books on their PDAs. I'm like you though, even though I use a computer daily, write on it, publish books from it, and published a monthly magazine for nearly 20 years, I still like to read from a piece of paper. When editing the Mineral News, I noticed that I found more of the errors (typos) if I printed the page and edited from that. But I believe in Star Trek! I expect that in XX number of years, reading from a screen in a convenient carry-around computer tablet will be commonplace. > The issue of CD's and DVD's as a long-term storage medium is a valid > concern. Most of the data from NASA's pre-1980 missions are impossible > to access because there is no working equipment to read it! Digital > cameras are a great tool, but in 100 years, we might find that this is > the dark-ages of photography because so few images were actually > printed and everything else is in an unreadible storage medium. I will > be optimistic and hope that future electronic engineers will design a > universal data reader that can decipher any electronic medium from > magnetic tape to CD's to 5" floppies to flashcards. That surprises me about the NASA data. Considering that there are several individuals, companies, museums and computer data restoration companies who have salvaged and maintained old comuters, I am amazed that there is nothing that can read that data. I would expect the biggest problem of that type of thing is that there is so much data it just isn't being transported to newer equipment. I'm sure a lot of people will lose their photos. I'm dutifully copying my archive CDs every few years, because contrary to the originally boasted idea that a CD would last 100 years or more, they apparently don't, and some may not make it past 10 years. When we move from tiff and jpg format to something else, then I will copy them to the new format. That all said, I have already lost files that I neglected to convert to the new versions of the page layout software.... But as to photos, film and paper isn't long lasting either. I notice that my Kodachrome slides (supposedly one of the most stable color films around) from 30 years ago, stored out of the light and out of the heat, already have lost there brightness and have color shifts. At least with a computer file, it is much easier to archive and maintain archive images than it is with film and photos. You just have to do it. There are books in libraries and archival collections that are hundreds of years old. And there a many that have to be handled very delicately, but still exist. There also are billions of books that have been lost due to water and fire. So paper doesn't have a any sort of lock on indestructability either. > Anyway, that is my input on the subject. > > Alan On the otherhand, I looks like if you write anything on the Internet, in just about any forum or format, Yahoo or someone has archived it somewhere and seemingly has it available to everyone "forever".... Lanny From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Tue Jan 4 22:06:14 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Tue Jan 4 22:06:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Corundum Research?!?!?! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41DB83D6.9060602@tenforward.com> Hi Hans, Brenda and Everyone, I second this, an awesome book absolutely jam packed with information, great advice! All the very best, John Hans Durstling wrote: > Hi Brenda, > > The very best thing you can do in researching corundum is to get > yourself a copy of Richard Hughes' book "Ruby & Sapphire." Wonderfully > written, magisterial, comprehensive, full of fascinating and funny > anecdotes, locality information, technical background, everything. > > The book (ISBN No. 0-9645097-6-8) is available from > > RWH Publishing > 4946 Clubhouse Circle > Boulder CO 80301-3725 > > tel 303 530 7975; fax 303 530 7975 > > or contact Richard Hughes at Pala International > 1 800 854 1598 or > > Cheers, > Hans Durstling > Moncton, Canada > > ============== > On Tuesday, January 4, 2005, at 01:13 PM, Brenda LaCroix wrote: > >> HI THERE!! >> >> Has anyone on this list done any research on corundum, in any >> aspect?!?!? >> >> If you have, would you consider contacting me offlist - >> corndogs@charter.net - I am going to be working with a current >> ongoing project dealing with corundum and I would like to gather as >> much information as I can and put together a list of contacts. >> >> As soon as I have more information, I will post it to the list...if >> no one objects of course :-) I am hoping that with my getting >> involved with The Project and it growing, corundum will become a word >> in everyone's vocabulary!!! (I can dream big, can't I?!?! hehehehe!!) >> >> THANKS IN ADVANCE for any help any of you can give me!! >> Brenda >> Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan >> >> Assisting Boston Terriers >> >> Kearney, NE >> >> CornDogs@Charter.net >> >> Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston >> Terriers >> >> To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! >> >> Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because >> your character is what you really are, while your reputation is >> merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown >> >> >> >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Tue Jan 4 22:12:29 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Tue Jan 4 22:12:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Corundum Research?!?!?! In-Reply-To: <41DB2125.21170.67F8CC6@localhost> References: <41DB2125.21170.67F8CC6@localhost> Message-ID: <41DB854D.4000101@tenforward.com> Hi Paul, Brenda and Everyone, Again, very good advice. Will is certainly passionate about his collecting. I met him in Tucson several years ago ('99 or 2000) when he had a second floor room at the Executive Inn. He had several massive opaque Brazilian emerald matrix specimens in the 75 to 125 pound range as I recall. Just prior to meeting him, I'd spotted a monster football sized ruby crystal likely from the same deposit as your specimen in the room of one of the Indian dealers and mentioned it to Will. Next thing ya know he was flying out the door only to return soon thereafter with his new prize in hand. What a monster! All the very best, John diente@prismnet.com wrote: >Will Heierman has an ongoing research project on corundum. He is well known in the field. >Check out www.corundiminium.com > >Paul Bordovsky >Austin, TX > > > > > >>Has anyone on this list done any research on corundum, in any aspect?!?!? >> >>If you have, would you consider contacting me offlist - corndogs@charter.net - I am going to be working with a current ongoing project dealing with corundum and I would like to gather as much information as I can and put together a list of contacts. >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From diente at prismnet.com Tue Jan 4 22:13:12 2005 From: diente at prismnet.com (diente@prismnet.com) Date: Tue Jan 4 22:13:22 2005 Subject: Oops: [Rockhounds] Corundum Research?!?!?! Message-ID: <41DB3118.25384.6BDD8B6@localhost> Oops. that URL should be www.corunduminium.com Sorry for the mistake. Paul > Will Heierman has an ongoing research project on corundum. He is well known in the field. > Check out www.corundiminium.com > > Paul Bordovsky > Austin, TX > > > > > Has anyone on this list done any research on corundum, in any aspect?!?!? > > > > If you have, would you consider contacting me offlist - corndogs@charter.net - I am going to be working with a current ongoing project dealing with corundum and I would like to gather as much information as I can and put together a list of contacts. > From corndogs at charter.net Wed Jan 5 06:20:45 2005 From: corndogs at charter.net (Brenda LaCroix) Date: Wed Jan 5 06:20:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Corundum Research?!?!?! References: <41DB2125.21170.67F8CC6@localhost> Message-ID: <000601c4f331$bf71a660$26b27144@dit03r92qai5fx> Will is who I am partnering up with!!! I am so glad that some of you have heard of him :-) We will be working together for the sake of The Project and hopefully it will become everything Will wanted it to be and more!!! Keep watching the website....we will post updates and my involvement in The Project in the next month or so!! Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, Nebraska Dedicated to helping abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a person.....to a Rescue Dog, you are the World!!! www.nationwidebostonrescue.org www.corunduminium.com - Ask me about The Corundum Project ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 11:05 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Corundum Research?!?!?! Will Heierman has an ongoing research project on corundum. He is well known in the field. Check out www.corundiminium.com Paul Bordovsky Austin, TX > Has anyone on this list done any research on corundum, in any aspect?!?!? > > If you have, would you consider contacting me offlist - corndogs@charter.net - I am going to be working with a current ongoing > project dealing with corundum and I would like to gather as much information as I can and put together a list of contacts. From corndogs at charter.net Wed Jan 5 06:21:54 2005 From: corndogs at charter.net (Brenda LaCroix) Date: Wed Jan 5 06:22:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Corundum Research?!?!?! References: <41DB83D6.9060602@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <000a01c4f331$e7fe5b50$26b27144@dit03r92qai5fx> I will be asking Will about it and also getting my OWN copy as soon as I can - THANK YOU SO MUCH to both of you for this information!!! Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, Nebraska Dedicated to helping abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a person.....to a Rescue Dog, you are the World!!! www.nationwidebostonrescue.org www.corunduminium.com - Ask me about The Corundum Project ----- Original Message ----- From: "John and Gloria Cornish" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 12:06 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Corundum Research?!?!?! Hi Hans, Brenda and Everyone, I second this, an awesome book absolutely jam packed with information, great advice! All the very best, John Hans Durstling wrote: > Hi Brenda, > > The very best thing you can do in researching corundum is to get > yourself a copy of Richard Hughes' book "Ruby & Sapphire." Wonderfully > written, magisterial, comprehensive, full of fascinating and funny > anecdotes, locality information, technical background, everything. > > The book (ISBN No. 0-9645097-6-8) is available from > > RWH Publishing > 4946 Clubhouse Circle > Boulder CO 80301-3725 > > tel 303 530 7975; fax 303 530 7975 > > or contact Richard Hughes at Pala International > 1 800 854 1598 or > > Cheers, > Hans Durstling > Moncton, Canada > > ============== > On Tuesday, January 4, 2005, at 01:13 PM, Brenda LaCroix wrote: > >> HI THERE!! >> >> Has anyone on this list done any research on corundum, in any >> aspect?!?!? >> >> If you have, would you consider contacting me offlist - >> corndogs@charter.net - I am going to be working with a current >> ongoing project dealing with corundum and I would like to gather as >> much information as I can and put together a list of contacts. >> >> As soon as I have more information, I will post it to the list...if >> no one objects of course :-) I am hoping that with my getting >> involved with The Project and it growing, corundum will become a word >> in everyone's vocabulary!!! (I can dream big, can't I?!?! hehehehe!!) >> >> THANKS IN ADVANCE for any help any of you can give me!! >> Brenda >> Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan >> >> Assisting Boston Terriers >> >> Kearney, NE >> >> CornDogs@Charter.net >> >> Dedicated to helping rescue abused, neglected and abandoned Boston >> Terriers >> >> To the World, you are just a Person; To a Rescue Dog, YOU are the World! >> >> Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because >> your character is what you really are, while your reputation is >> merely what others think you are. ~Author Unknown >> >> >> >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From corndogs at charter.net Wed Jan 5 06:25:18 2005 From: corndogs at charter.net (Brenda LaCroix) Date: Wed Jan 5 06:25:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Corundum Research?!?!?! References: <41DB2125.21170.67F8CC6@localhost> <41DB854D.4000101@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <000e01c4f332$620b2b30$26b27144@dit03r92qai5fx> OH, I LOVE THIS STORY!! I am definitely going to ask him about it....I am wondering if this is where our Monsters originated from?!?!?! Thank you so much for offering this anecdote...I love hearing stories about the guy that I have just 'gone into business with'.....since of course, after all - we have only met online and built our relationship purely by email. But who is to say that is wrong?!?!?! I have 5 amazing people in my life who I share most everything with....and I have never met any of them!! And because of my health, it has been the greatest way to stay in touch with the world from my own little corner of it!! :-) Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, Nebraska Dedicated to helping abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a person.....to a Rescue Dog, you are the World!!! www.nationwidebostonrescue.org www.corunduminium.com - Ask me about The Corundum Project ----- Original Message ----- From: "John and Gloria Cornish" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 12:12 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Corundum Research?!?!?! Hi Paul, Brenda and Everyone, Again, very good advice. Will is certainly passionate about his collecting. I met him in Tucson several years ago ('99 or 2000) when he had a second floor room at the Executive Inn. He had several massive opaque Brazilian emerald matrix specimens in the 75 to 125 pound range as I recall. Just prior to meeting him, I'd spotted a monster football sized ruby crystal likely from the same deposit as your specimen in the room of one of the Indian dealers and mentioned it to Will. Next thing ya know he was flying out the door only to return soon thereafter with his new prize in hand. What a monster! All the very best, John diente@prismnet.com wrote: >Will Heierman has an ongoing research project on corundum. He is well known in the field. >Check out www.corundiminium.com > >Paul Bordovsky >Austin, TX > > > > > >>Has anyone on this list done any research on corundum, in any aspect?!?!? >> >>If you have, would you consider contacting me offlist - corndogs@charter.net - I am going to be working with a current ongoing >>project dealing with corundum and I would like to gather as much information as I can and put together a list of contacts. >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kadok at infowest.com Wed Jan 5 06:35:53 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Wed Jan 5 06:35:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] re: Red, White and Blue In-Reply-To: <20050104175831.81128.qmail@web20023.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050105143542.80C50CB97CD@delivery.infowest.com> Mars is red - can we call that limonite too? Regards to all, Joe in digest land Hi, Joe -- I think Mars' red is more likely be another iron oxide, Hematite -- commonly known as "rust"! Margaret __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Dress up your holiday email, Hollywood style. Learn more. http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Wed Jan 5 06:42:29 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Wed Jan 5 06:42:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] re: Red, White and Blue In-Reply-To: <20050104175831.81128.qmail@web20023.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050104175831.81128.qmail@web20023.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <41DBFCD5.2070809@tenforward.com> Hi Joe, Thank you for your nice comments. Can I ask a favor? John is perfect, my Dad is Mr. Cornish. :-) Thanks, Joe. No problem, it just seems kind of freaky! Good luck in the New Year, maybe this will be your year for the big one! I'll keep my fingers crossed for ya! All the very best, John Joe Mulvey wrote: >Wow! Mr. Cornish, once again, your stories are amazing and great >reading! I still recall your trip for fossils in New York. > >The chill of discovering your own large pocket is hard to >imagine - since I've never found any pockets larger than a U.S. >quarter! > >Thank you for the story! > >A question for the list - does everything eventually change into >something else? Limonite, as I have learned is not a mineral, >it's more of a "state" of something that was once an >identifiable mineral. > >Mars is red - can we call that limonite too? > >Regards to all, >Joe in digest land > > >===== >Joe Mulvey >Nashua, NH -- USA >http://www.lostandfoundproject.com >http://home.comcast.net/~mgag1 > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Dress up your holiday email, Hollywood style. Learn more. >http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From kadok at infowest.com Wed Jan 5 06:56:03 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Wed Jan 5 06:55:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050105145552.1A3D0CB988D@delivery.infowest.com> Well, I think that, more precisely, it is that the sodium lamp just does not have anything even approaching a continuous spectrum, so that a lot of things just aren't "seen". Such as reds, reds, which come out a sickly chartreuse color. Margaret >Actually its not night vision, per se, that is the problem. Its been many a >year since astronomers looked thru a telescope. The problem is the emission >lines from the lamps, sodium's lines are easier to eliminate from >spectrograms. Mercury lamps generate a lot of lines and maybe, iirc, some >continuous emissions too. -------Original Message----- -- --Hi, Kitty -- I remember the sodium vapor lights from back --when I was a gay young thing -- they sure did rotten things --to colors. I can surely understand why the merchants don't like them. -- --Margaret -- --Here on the Big Island nearly all our streetlights are low --pressure Sodium --Vapor lamps, the result of a county ordinance back in the --1980's at the --request of various telescope directors on Mauna Kea. --Astronomers didn't --want their viewing diminished by the more common bright white --Mercury Vapor --lamps; the orange Sodium Vapor lights do not interfere with night --vision. One exception is the main tourist --shopping/entertainment street on --the Kona side of the island, where merchants say women don't --like the way --they appear under the orange lights. -- --Aloha, Kitty -- -- --At 06:59 AM 1/2/2005, you wrote: -- -->Axel, -->Thanks for your expert information, I find it informative. I'm -->wondering -->about the old Mercury Vapor lamps that were used back in the --'40's. I've -->used a couple of them and found many more minerals will --respond to it than -->those on the market today. The lamps also had 100 watts of --output and were -->used during the Uranium prospecting activities in the --1950's. It takes a -->long time for the old lamps to warm up to full output but --once they do the -->spot light effect is amazing. Rocks will glow from many --yards away. It's -->my understanding that Bill has acquired one of these lamps --from a mutual -->friend. Thanks again for your comments and education. -->Cheers! -->Wes -- -- ---- --No virus found in this outgoing message. --Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. --Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004 -- -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- -- -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Wed Jan 5 07:37:43 2005 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Wed Jan 5 07:38:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meaningfull locality data in perspective In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200501051538.j05FbwZW019738@bubbleator.drizzle.com> A lot of the problem is that while the raw data are readable, the interpretation of it is the problem. The one's and zero's are there just fine, but that old Fortran IV program that made sense of 'em is long gone. I think of this when I listen to my "Old Time Radio" (OTR) MP3 files on my tiny flash-memory MP3 player. When I hear the dulcet tones of Fred Allen (that's a joke son. I say, that's a joke..."dulcet" does NOT describe Mr. Allen's voice!) the data has followed this path: Mr. Allen's vocal cords Microphone Amplifier Acetate Transcription (and now I surmise...) Vinyl Copy of Transcription Reel-to-reel tape Cassette tape Digitized to WAV file Converted to MP3 file Burned to CD Uploaded in my hard drive Downloaded into my USB MP3 player Played from player Headphone Mr. Brown's ears Total time for this: about 63 years! GcB PS.... I'm willing to trade MP3's of OTR shows that I have for rocks, BTW! > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Lanny > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 12:05 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Meaningfull locality data in perspective > > > > That surprises me about the NASA data. Considering that there > are several individuals, companies, museums and computer data > restoration companies who have salvaged and maintained old > comuters, I am amazed that there is nothing that can read > that data. I would expect the biggest problem of that type of > thing is that there is so much data it just isn't being > transported to newer equipment. > From cabrageo at cksonline.net Tue Jan 4 15:00:10 2005 From: cabrageo at cksonline.net (David J. Smith) Date: Wed Jan 5 07:43:04 2005 Subject: Re [Rockhounds] Garmin GPS76S Message-ID: <41DB1FFA.8000807@cksonline.net> Thought I'd chime in on this one: I have an older Garmin GPSMAP 76s (greyscale screen) that I've been using the last two or so years. While in Canada the internal maps were fairly for general navigation - most primary and secondary routes were present, and geographical features were in the correct locations Here in Brasil, they are 'pessimo', the maps are about 20 years out of date and downright wrong in some cases. (20 km errors in river locations, etc). Still, I get a lot of good use out of it, I have a lot of workings in the middle of nowhere I can now get back to (I love the mine symbol waypoint marker) and have added quite a few missing towns, etc... I still wish it was more "hackable" so I could do a more complete job of correcting the mistakes. In terms of aquisition, I've only had trouble in very dense vegetation (ie rain forest), and even then openings in the canopy provided by large deadfalls let me lock in again. Cheers David From tim at orerockon.com Wed Jan 5 08:59:34 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Jan 5 08:59:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garmin GPSMAP 76 In-Reply-To: <41DB404B.8070401@att.net> References: <20041227142258.64297.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com> <001601c4ec23$b181c9a0$56a3490c@pete> <6C1216E5-582D-11D9-B99E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20050103070746.02603d90@mail.spiritone.com> <88CA264E-5DB3-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20050103120933.02414c98@mail.spiritone.com> <68FF8202-5E9D-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20050104160801.02cc5560@mail.spiritone.com> <41DB404B.8070401@att.net> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20050105085442.02e92188@mail.spiritone.com> I routinely use the GPS V to map out areas, roads, and trails. It stores a few thousand waypoints in the track log and 500 in the point memory so it is more than adequate for the tasks that you mention. To save money if he doesn't need the maps check out the GPS 12. At 05:18 PM 1/4/2005, you wrote: >Tim Fisher wrote: >>Lanny, I think you are confused. Here is the page for the GPS V; it lists >>for $321. I got mine off Ebay for $279. >>http://www.garmin.com/products/gps5/ > >Howdy, > >Nice link--I read it, but I'm not sure about this discussion you two are >having. I am trying to help a geologist (a real geologist) pick a GPS to >buy, on a limited budget, and he liked my Garmin GPS III+. I know that >there is better out there now, like the Garmin V. Doesn't it have >waypoints? If someone wants to map data points around a few-square-mile >area, would the V be good enough? I know the III+ was the common man's >workhorse in its day, and it still does what I need it to do. I just want >to recommend something for him that will do what he needs it to do and not >spend more than he really needs to spend. > >Thanks, >Don Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From lanny at lrream.com Wed Jan 5 09:17:43 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Wed Jan 5 09:15:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garmin GPSMAP 76 In-Reply-To: <41DB404B.8070401@att.net> References: <20041227142258.64297.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com> <001601c4ec23$b181c9a0$56a3490c@pete> <6C1216E5-582D-11D9-B99E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20050103070746.02603d90@mail.spiritone.com> <88CA264E-5DB3-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20050103120933.02414c98@mail.spiritone.com> <68FF8202-5E9D-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20050104160801.02cc5560@mail.spiritone.com> <41DB404B.8070401@att.net> Message-ID: Hi Don, One thing that he, or you, might do, is go to the Garmin web page for comparing units. Select a few, see what comes up, then do a few more... That way, you can get a good idea of the features of each unit and which one(s) has the features most needed at the best price. There are good units under $200 that will hold a lot of routes and waypoints, but for mapping, they are mostly more expensive. Regards, Lanny On Jan 4, 2005, at 5:18 PM, Don H wrote: >> > > Howdy, > > Nice link--I read it, but I'm not sure about this discussion you two > are having. I am trying to help a geologist (a real geologist) pick a > GPS to buy, on a limited budget, and he liked my Garmin GPS III+. I > know that there is better out there now, like the Garmin V. Doesn't > it have waypoints? If someone wants to map data points around a > few-square-mile area, would the V be good enough? I know the III+ was > the common man's workhorse in its day, and it still does what I need > it to do. I just want to recommend something for him that will do > what he needs it to do and not spend more than he really needs to > spend. > > Thanks, > Don > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From morningstar at att.net Wed Jan 5 09:25:02 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Wed Jan 5 09:25:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garmin GPSMAP 76 Message-ID: <010520051725.9306.41DC22ED000A4C3F0000245A21587667209D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Thanks guys, I did look at the features, but those are highlights, and sometimes the good stuff is in the details. For example, the GPS V has a number of datums, but which ones? Also, I think I see the semantic discrepancy here. To me, "mapping" means having your 7.5 min. topo quad and a GPS, writing down lat/long coordinates using WGS-84 datum; or maybe working with a UTM or T-R map. I think you guys are talking about having detailed maps built right into the GPS--is that what makes it so expensive? I have a laptop with DeLorme TopoUSA (or TopoZone, or whatever it is) and MAS/MILS, and though I haven't used the PS hooked directly to my laptop yet, I apparently can. I realize that in the rugged coutry, I won't be using a laptop, and then I would want either a built-in map or a topo quad, but if it's that much difference in price, I'll take the paper. I'm not one of those upgrade hounds, however, I must admit that the GPS V adds value over my III+ (anybpody want to buy a well-kept, used III+ cheap?) I might upgrade to the V before I drive all the way out to Idaho; I like th navigation features. How do these work in the Pac NW? Thanks, Don -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Lanny > Hi Don, > > One thing that he, or you, might do, is go to the Garmin web page for > comparing units. Select a few, see what comes up, then do a few more... > That way, you can get a good idea of the features of each unit and > which one(s) has the features most needed at the best price. There are > good units under $200 that will hold a lot of routes and waypoints, but > for mapping, they are mostly more expensive. > > Regards, > > Lanny > > > On Jan 4, 2005, at 5:18 PM, Don H wrote: > > >> > > > > Howdy, > > > > Nice link--I read it, but I'm not sure about this discussion you two > > are having. I am trying to help a geologist (a real geologist) pick a > > GPS to buy, on a limited budget, and he liked my Garmin GPS III+. I > > know that there is better out there now, like the Garmin V. Doesn't > > it have waypoints? If someone wants to map data points around a > > few-square-mile area, would the V be good enough? I know the III+ was > > the common man's workhorse in its day, and it still does what I need > > it to do. I just want to recommend something for him that will do > > what he needs it to do and not spend more than he really needs to > > spend. > > > > Thanks, > > Don > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From asgardsgc at earthlink.net Wed Jan 5 10:01:21 2005 From: asgardsgc at earthlink.net (Mark Easterbrook) Date: Wed Jan 5 10:01:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] "ASBOG" Message-ID: <828912.1104948081887.JavaMail.root@louie.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Gary, The ASBOG tests are standardized proctored tests by an individual State's government. The tests are not administered online, but rather at a central locality or lacalities in a given State. The tests are written by and seemingly geared toward academia given the variety of questions asked. I agree with your assertion of some professional certification testing given online. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gary Brown Sent: Jan 3, 2005 9:52 AM To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] "ASBOG" A couple of questions.... Is this a "standard" test that is the same for a number of states, or is it tuned for each state? Is it administered online or at a center such as Sylvan, or is it a locally administered and proctored beast? In my "real" life I make software for administering exams (see: http://www.xmn.com) and am always looking for new fields to plow. Oh... And I sure hope the test is better constructed than the ones that SOME states give for professional certification. No naming names, but my cat and dog could pass some of those tests with a random walk across the keyboard! GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Fox > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 1:55 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Cc: asgardsgc@earthlink.net > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] "ASBOG" > > Yes. It is a required exam for certification in most (not > all) states. ... _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tim at orerockon.com Wed Jan 5 10:01:45 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Jan 5 10:01:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garmin GPSMAP 76 In-Reply-To: <783DDAA8-5EDC-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> References: <20041227142258.64297.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com> <001601c4ec23$b181c9a0$56a3490c@pete> <6C1216E5-582D-11D9-B99E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20050103070746.02603d90@mail.spiritone.com> <88CA264E-5DB3-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20050103120933.02414c98@mail.spiritone.com> <68FF8202-5E9D-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20050104160801.02cc5560@mail.spiritone.com> <783DDAA8-5EDC-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20050105095630.02e4e308@mail.spiritone.com> Lanny, when you get the software, you get MapSource, which has DeLorme-like 100k or so resolution maps for the US and Canada. You also get City Select which you can choose to install or not. These are more like 1:3000ish scale maps and have incredible detail. I don't know which MapSource product the basic maps are; all the CD case says is Garmin MapSource with City Select... At 09:41 PM 1/4/2005, you wrote: >Hi Tim, > >That is the page I was looking at when I wrote that the V does not come >with Mapsource. I guess I should have asked up front just what Mapsource >you meant. I was thinking of Mapsource Topo US, but I guess you were >talking about Mapsource CitySelect. The way your original message was >written, I thought you were mentioning how useful you found CitySelect as >a separate thing. I'm not interested in CitySelect, so it doesn't matter >to me if it isn't included. I'm interested in the included Autoroute as >something convenient to use much like a roadmap, and Topo US for use in >the field, although I would rather it was 1:24,000 scale like the >MapSource National Parks. > >Lanny > > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Jan 5 10:05:38 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Jan 5 10:05:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: <20050105145552.1A3D0CB988D@delivery.infowest.com> Message-ID: Yo Margaret, because all paints are "composed" by several pigments, they reflect several wavelengths... I made a piment mix for a batch of ABS-plastic a few times and you'd be surprised how many piments you need to make a "simpel" batch of red plastic... I don't recall the names of the pigments but the receipe is something like this to blend say 100 kilos of plastic: 25.7 grams of hipperdepip red 1322 (names and number are fictive) 6.25 grams of blublob red 1022 0.55 gram of gargoyle tongue blue 1201 2 grams of Dutch burnt orange 549 16 milligrans of sunrise yellow 22 56 milligrams of chicken yellow 59 now wash you hand when your done.... You get red. When your sodium lamp 's light, which has only two yellow spectral lines, reflects from that plastic, ONLY the yellow will be visible... That's the reason for the "sick " colours. Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm Verzonden: woensdag 5 januari 2005 15:56 Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence Well, I think that, more precisely, it is that the sodium lamp just does not have anything even approaching a continuous spectrum, so that a lot of things just aren't "seen". Such as reds, reds, which come out a sickly chartreuse color. Margaret >Actually its not night vision, per se, that is the problem. Its been many a >year since astronomers looked thru a telescope. The problem is the emission >lines from the lamps, sodium's lines are easier to eliminate from >spectrograms. Mercury lamps generate a lot of lines and maybe, iirc, some >continuous emissions too. -------Original Message----- -- --Hi, Kitty -- I remember the sodium vapor lights from back --when I was a gay young thing -- they sure did rotten things --to colors. I can surely understand why the merchants don't like them. -- --Margaret -- --Here on the Big Island nearly all our streetlights are low --pressure Sodium --Vapor lamps, the result of a county ordinance back in the --1980's at the --request of various telescope directors on Mauna Kea. --Astronomers didn't --want their viewing diminished by the more common bright white --Mercury Vapor --lamps; the orange Sodium Vapor lights do not interfere with night --vision. One exception is the main tourist --shopping/entertainment street on --the Kona side of the island, where merchants say women don't --like the way --they appear under the orange lights. -- --Aloha, Kitty -- -- --At 06:59 AM 1/2/2005, you wrote: -- -->Axel, -->Thanks for your expert information, I find it informative. I'm -->wondering -->about the old Mercury Vapor lamps that were used back in the --'40's. I've -->used a couple of them and found many more minerals will --respond to it than -->those on the market today. The lamps also had 100 watts of --output and were -->used during the Uranium prospecting activities in the --1950's. It takes a -->long time for the old lamps to warm up to full output but --once they do the -->spot light effect is amazing. Rocks will glow from many --yards away. It's -->my understanding that Bill has acquired one of these lamps --from a mutual -->friend. Thanks again for your comments and education. -->Cheers! -->Wes -- -- ---- --No virus found in this outgoing message. --Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. --Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004 -- -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- -- -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From dmschmidt at sprint.ca Wed Jan 5 10:37:35 2005 From: dmschmidt at sprint.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Wed Jan 5 10:37:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence References: Message-ID: <005101c4f355$a07023d0$6402a8c0@remains> Axel having worked for a number of years manufacturing colourants for all types of plastics, as well as engineering polyester gelcoats and colour matching colours for truck canopies (metallics) as well as other polyester applications, colour development is not a simple thing in some cases. At the time we worked with both organic and inorganic pigments. Organics, such as the bright reds, pinks, carbon black, blues, etc. were safe for food applications because they were organic. We also used inorganic pigments such as iron oxides, but also more dangerous cadmium and mercadium (mercury cadmium combination) based pigments. When colour matching for a red or yellow truck canopy, it mattered little (at the time) if you used a cadmium red pigment, because you never had to worry about someone eating the canopy, or it coming into contact with food, etc. However, when using the same colourant in the making of a plastic component for a food container, or a children's toy...obviously not. If you had in front of you a very wide range or organic and inorganic pigments, in various colours, it would not be difficult to match most colours using a maximum of 3-4 pigments....in some cases only 1-2. However, when you have a colour that matches a cadmium pigment perfectly, and you have to create the same colour using organic pigments, it becomes a difficult task. I remember once having to match a cadmium colour we had- 6962- using organic and non-hazordous pigments. By the time it was done, I had used: F5RK organic red Perm yellow G organic yellow RHD 6X Titanium dioxide BK5099 Iron oxide black RS7 Ultramine Blue and a touch of 3RLTN organic orange Just to re-produce the colour of 1 cadmium red pigment...that had horriffic UV stability in the end. Add to the fact that some plastics (high impact styrene, PVC, etc) bleach the colours out so badly when moulded that you have to increase the strength of it to compensate, makes organic pigment based colour blends very expensive compared to inorganics. You think reds are bad, try off-whites. I once matched a boat hull that had almost 10 different coloured pigments in it..... yikes. and it's worse today because so many of the pigments we used then are no longer useable now in North America. And, last but not least....this was all before colour computers/paint matching computers were available. We had one computer that we used occasionally, but I could do it faster by eye...and usally with less pigments! Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 11:05 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > Yo Margaret, > > because all paints are "composed" by several pigments, they reflect > several > wavelengths... > I made a piment mix for a batch of ABS-plastic a few times and you'd be > surprised how many piments you need to make a "simpel" batch of red > plastic... > I don't recall the names of the pigments but the receipe is something like > this to blend say 100 kilos of plastic: > > 25.7 grams of hipperdepip red 1322 (names and number are fictive) > 6.25 grams of blublob red 1022 > 0.55 gram of gargoyle tongue blue 1201 > 2 grams of Dutch burnt orange 549 > 16 milligrans of sunrise yellow 22 > 56 milligrams of chicken yellow 59 > now wash you hand when your done.... > > You get red. When your sodium lamp 's light, which has only two yellow > spectral lines, reflects from that plastic, ONLY the yellow will be > visible... > > That's the reason for the "sick " colours. > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm > Verzonden: woensdag 5 januari 2005 15:56 > Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > > > Well, I think that, more precisely, it is that the sodium lamp just does > not > have anything even approaching a continuous spectrum, so that a lot of > things just aren't "seen". Such as reds, reds, which come out a sickly > chartreuse color. > > Margaret > >>Actually its not night vision, per se, that is the problem. Its been many >>a >>year since astronomers looked thru a telescope. The problem is the >>emission >>lines from the lamps, sodium's lines are easier to eliminate from >>spectrograms. Mercury lamps generate a lot of lines and maybe, iirc, some >>continuous emissions too. > > > > -------Original Message----- > -- > --Hi, Kitty -- I remember the sodium vapor lights from back > --when I was a gay young thing -- they sure did rotten things > --to colors. I can surely understand why the merchants don't like them. > -- > --Margaret > -- > --Here on the Big Island nearly all our streetlights are low > --pressure Sodium > --Vapor lamps, the result of a county ordinance back in the > --1980's at the > --request of various telescope directors on Mauna Kea. > --Astronomers didn't > --want their viewing diminished by the more common bright white > --Mercury Vapor > --lamps; the orange Sodium Vapor lights do not interfere with night > --vision. One exception is the main tourist > --shopping/entertainment street on > --the Kona side of the island, where merchants say women don't > --like the way > --they appear under the orange lights. > -- > --Aloha, Kitty > -- > -- > --At 06:59 AM 1/2/2005, you wrote: > -- > -->Axel, > -->Thanks for your expert information, I find it informative. I'm > -->wondering > -->about the old Mercury Vapor lamps that were used back in the > --'40's. I've > -->used a couple of them and found many more minerals will > --respond to it than > -->those on the market today. The lamps also had 100 watts of > --output and were > -->used during the Uranium prospecting activities in the > --1950's. It takes a > -->long time for the old lamps to warm up to full output but > --once they do the > -->spot light effect is amazing. Rocks will glow from many > --yards away. It's > -->my understanding that Bill has acquired one of these lamps > --from a mutual > -->friend. Thanks again for your comments and education. > -->Cheers! > -->Wes > -- > -- > ---- > --No virus found in this outgoing message. > --Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > --Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004 > -- > -- > --_______________________________________________ > --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > --Subscription Services: > --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > -- > -- > -- > --_______________________________________________ > --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > --Subscription Services: > --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > -- > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From dmschmidt at sprint.ca Wed Jan 5 10:38:09 2005 From: dmschmidt at sprint.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Wed Jan 5 10:38:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence References: Message-ID: <005801c4f355$b4ba1440$6402a8c0@remains> Axel having worked for a number of years manufacturing colourants for all types of plastics, as well as engineering polyester gelcoats and colour matching colours for truck canopies (metallics) as well as other polyester applications, colour development is not a simple thing in some cases. At the time we worked with both organic and inorganic pigments. Organics, such as the bright reds, pinks, carbon black, blues, etc. were safe for food applications because they were organic. We also used inorganic pigments such as iron oxides, but also more dangerous cadmium and mercadium (mercury cadmium combination) based pigments. When colour matching for a red or yellow truck canopy, it mattered little (at the time) if you used a cadmium red pigment, because you never had to worry about someone eating the canopy, or it coming into contact with food, etc. However, when using the same colourant in the making of a plastic component for a food container, or a children's toy...obviously not. If you had in front of you a very wide range or organic and inorganic pigments, in various colours, it would not be difficult to match most colours using a maximum of 3-4 pigments....in some cases only 1-2. However, when you have a colour that matches a cadmium pigment perfectly, and you have to create the same colour using organic pigments, it becomes a difficult task. I remember once having to match a cadmium colour we had- 6962- using organic and non-hazardous pigments. By the time it was done, I had used: F5RK organic red Perm yellow G organic yellow RHD 6X Titanium dioxide BK5099 Iron oxide black RS7 Ultramine Blue and a touch of 3RLTN organic orange Just to re-produce the colour of 1 cadmium red pigment...that had horriffic UV stability in the end. Add to the fact that some plastics (high impact styrene, PVC, etc) bleach the colours out so badly when moulded that you have to increase the strength of it to compensate, makes organic pigment based colour blends very expensive compared to inorganics. You think reds are bad, try off-whites. I once matched a boat hull that had almost 10 different coloured pigments in it..... yikes. and it's worse today because so many of the pigments we used then are no longer useable now in North America. And, last but not least....this was all before colour computers/paint matching computers were available. We had one computer that we used occasionally, but I could do it faster by eye...and usually with less pigments! Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 11:05 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > Yo Margaret, > > because all paints are "composed" by several pigments, they reflect > several > wavelengths... > I made a piment mix for a batch of ABS-plastic a few times and you'd be > surprised how many piments you need to make a "simpel" batch of red > plastic... > I don't recall the names of the pigments but the receipe is something like > this to blend say 100 kilos of plastic: > > 25.7 grams of hipperdepip red 1322 (names and number are fictive) > 6.25 grams of blublob red 1022 > 0.55 gram of gargoyle tongue blue 1201 > 2 grams of Dutch burnt orange 549 > 16 milligrans of sunrise yellow 22 > 56 milligrams of chicken yellow 59 > now wash you hand when your done.... > > You get red. When your sodium lamp 's light, which has only two yellow > spectral lines, reflects from that plastic, ONLY the yellow will be > visible... > > That's the reason for the "sick " colours. > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm > Verzonden: woensdag 5 januari 2005 15:56 > Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > > > Well, I think that, more precisely, it is that the sodium lamp just does > not > have anything even approaching a continuous spectrum, so that a lot of > things just aren't "seen". Such as reds, reds, which come out a sickly > chartreuse color. > > Margaret > >>Actually its not night vision, per se, that is the problem. Its been many >>a >>year since astronomers looked thru a telescope. The problem is the >>emission >>lines from the lamps, sodium's lines are easier to eliminate from >>spectrograms. Mercury lamps generate a lot of lines and maybe, iirc, some >>continuous emissions too. > > > > -------Original Message----- > -- > --Hi, Kitty -- I remember the sodium vapor lights from back > --when I was a gay young thing -- they sure did rotten things > --to colors. I can surely understand why the merchants don't like them. > -- > --Margaret > -- > --Here on the Big Island nearly all our streetlights are low > --pressure Sodium > --Vapor lamps, the result of a county ordinance back in the > --1980's at the > --request of various telescope directors on Mauna Kea. > --Astronomers didn't > --want their viewing diminished by the more common bright white > --Mercury Vapor > --lamps; the orange Sodium Vapor lights do not interfere with night > --vision. One exception is the main tourist > --shopping/entertainment street on > --the Kona side of the island, where merchants say women don't > --like the way > --they appear under the orange lights. > -- > --Aloha, Kitty > -- > -- > --At 06:59 AM 1/2/2005, you wrote: > -- > -->Axel, > -->Thanks for your expert information, I find it informative. I'm > -->wondering > -->about the old Mercury Vapor lamps that were used back in the > --'40's. I've > -->used a couple of them and found many more minerals will > --respond to it than > -->those on the market today. The lamps also had 100 watts of > --output and were > -->used during the Uranium prospecting activities in the > --1950's. It takes a > -->long time for the old lamps to warm up to full output but > --once they do the > -->spot light effect is amazing. Rocks will glow from many > --yards away. It's > -->my understanding that Bill has acquired one of these lamps > --from a mutual > -->friend. Thanks again for your comments and education. > -->Cheers! > -->Wes > -- > -- > ---- > --No virus found in this outgoing message. > --Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > --Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004 > -- > -- > --_______________________________________________ > --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > --Subscription Services: > --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > -- > -- > -- > --_______________________________________________ > --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > --Subscription Services: > --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > -- > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tim at orerockon.com Wed Jan 5 11:07:38 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Jan 5 11:07:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garmin GPSMAP 76 In-Reply-To: <010520051725.9306.41DC22ED000A4C3F0000245A21587667209D0E9B 9C090207029D0103@att.net> References: <010520051725.9306.41DC22ED000A4C3F0000245A21587667209D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20050105102839.02f10420@mail.spiritone.com> Don, I too had a III+, and was reluctant to upgrade it, but one feature of the V sold me: it has 26 character waypoint names instead of the old 6 character names, and that was worth it to me. I have a few thousand waypoints and therefore I have to be selective about which ones I upload before I go out rockhounding, since the vast majority of GPSs store 500 waypoints and 1024 or 2048 track points. If you want more then you're into the $400+ range. The mapping capabilities are just a bonus feature. It has at least all the datums of the III+; I use WGS84 since it is the standard for transferring waypoints to a PC, and later convert to NAD83 in my topo map program. I use it hooked up to the laptop on the front seat off my truck; works great everywhere I can drive around here, including places that "should" cause reception problems, as long as I have the external antenna on the roof. Laptops can take a lot of Gs these days; I have dropped mine on a hardwood floor with no apparent damage lol. When I fire up All Topo maps, it finds the GPS and shows my current position and track in the program, and even saves tracks and waypoints in real-time to waypoint files. I use MapSource primarily to navigate USFS and BLM roads which as I said earlier are well represented in their mapping data; the navigation feature has saved me many hours in taking the wrong roads, etc! It even found some shortcuts to places I have been going to for years. If you want a brand spanking new unit just for the laptop, try the GPS 10. It isn't even in stores yet but I would have bought it last year if it had been available. Uses Bluetooth wireless! http://www.garmin.com/products/gps10/ Plus if you are really anal about accuracy, the better units like all that we have been talking about here have WAAS which actually does work in most places I go in the backcountry, and can give you a position accuracy of better than +/- 3 meters 95 percent of the time, according to Garmin. At 09:25 AM 1/5/2005, you wrote: >Thanks guys, > >I did look at the features, but those are highlights, and sometimes the >good stuff is in the details. For example, the GPS V has a number of >datums, but which ones? > >Also, I think I see the semantic discrepancy here. To me, "mapping" means >having your 7.5 min. topo quad and a GPS, writing down lat/long >coordinates using WGS-84 datum; or maybe working with a UTM or T-R map. I >think you guys are talking about having detailed maps built right into the >GPS--is that what makes it so expensive? I have a laptop with DeLorme >TopoUSA (or TopoZone, or whatever it is) and MAS/MILS, and though I >haven't used the PS hooked directly to my laptop yet, I apparently can. I >realize that in the rugged coutry, I won't be using a laptop, and then I >would want either a built-in map or a topo quad, but if it's that much >difference in price, I'll take the paper. > >I'm not one of those upgrade hounds, however, I must admit that the GPS V >adds value over my III+ (anybpody want to buy a well-kept, used III+ >cheap?) I might upgrade to the V before I drive all the way out to Idaho; >I like th navigation features. > >How do these work in the Pac NW? > > >Thanks, >Don > > > > > > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- >From: Lanny > > Hi Don, > > > > One thing that he, or you, might do, is go to the Garmin web page for > > comparing units. Select a few, see what comes up, then do a few more... > > That way, you can get a good idea of the features of each unit and > > which one(s) has the features most needed at the best price. There are > > good units under $200 that will hold a lot of routes and waypoints, but > > for mapping, they are mostly more expensive. > > > > Regards, > > > > Lanny > > > > > > On Jan 4, 2005, at 5:18 PM, Don H wrote: > > > > >> > > > > > > Howdy, > > > > > > Nice link--I read it, but I'm not sure about this discussion you two > > > are having. I am trying to help a geologist (a real geologist) pick a > > > GPS to buy, on a limited budget, and he liked my Garmin GPS III+. I > > > know that there is better out there now, like the Garmin V. Doesn't > > > it have waypoints? If someone wants to map data points around a > > > few-square-mile area, would the V be good enough? I know the III+ was > > > the common man's workhorse in its day, and it still does what I need > > > it to do. I just want to recommend something for him that will do > > > what he needs it to do and not spend more than he really needs to > > > spend. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Don > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Jan 5 11:22:19 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Jan 5 11:21:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: <005101c4f355$a07023d0$6402a8c0@remains> Message-ID: Hi Michael, I work in the quality control lab of a polyethylene plant. Some time ago cadmiumsulfide was banned for all food-related plastics. Some 3rd world countries still want the yellow cadmium-pigmented plastic but Europese countries don't. The problem is that when you produce both cadmium pigmented and cadmium free yellow plastic, you have to be sure that no contamination takes place between the two kinds. I discovered that CdS (when together with ZnO and other Zinc compounds) fluoresces red in extreme long wave UV. I convinced my superiors of the need for such a test and they bought a SuperBright LW from UV-Systems with a 368 nm LW lamp. We can now spot a single pellet (0.035 gram)of CdS pigmented polyethylene in a mass of several kilos of PE yellow poly-E with an organic pigment. Fluorescence rules, YEAH Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Michael Schmidt Verzonden: woensdag 5 januari 2005 19:38 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence Axel having worked for a number of years manufacturing colourants for all types of plastics, as well as engineering polyester gelcoats and colour matching colours for truck canopies (metallics) as well as other polyester applications, colour development is not a simple thing in some cases. At the time we worked with both organic and inorganic pigments. Organics, such as the bright reds, pinks, carbon black, blues, etc. were safe for food applications because they were organic. We also used inorganic pigments such as iron oxides, but also more dangerous cadmium and mercadium (mercury cadmium combination) based pigments. When colour matching for a red or yellow truck canopy, it mattered little (at the time) if you used a cadmium red pigment, because you never had to worry about someone eating the canopy, or it coming into contact with food, etc. However, when using the same colourant in the making of a plastic component for a food container, or a children's toy...obviously not. If you had in front of you a very wide range or organic and inorganic pigments, in various colours, it would not be difficult to match most colours using a maximum of 3-4 pigments....in some cases only 1-2. However, when you have a colour that matches a cadmium pigment perfectly, and you have to create the same colour using organic pigments, it becomes a difficult task. I remember once having to match a cadmium colour we had- 6962- using organic and non-hazordous pigments. By the time it was done, I had used: F5RK organic red Perm yellow G organic yellow RHD 6X Titanium dioxide BK5099 Iron oxide black RS7 Ultramine Blue and a touch of 3RLTN organic orange Just to re-produce the colour of 1 cadmium red pigment...that had horriffic UV stability in the end. Add to the fact that some plastics (high impact styrene, PVC, etc) bleach the colours out so badly when moulded that you have to increase the strength of it to compensate, makes organic pigment based colour blends very expensive compared to inorganics. You think reds are bad, try off-whites. I once matched a boat hull that had almost 10 different coloured pigments in it..... yikes. and it's worse today because so many of the pigments we used then are no longer useable now in North America. And, last but not least....this was all before colour computers/paint matching computers were available. We had one computer that we used occasionally, but I could do it faster by eye...and usally with less pigments! Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 11:05 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > Yo Margaret, > > because all paints are "composed" by several pigments, they reflect > several > wavelengths... > I made a piment mix for a batch of ABS-plastic a few times and you'd be > surprised how many piments you need to make a "simpel" batch of red > plastic... > I don't recall the names of the pigments but the receipe is something like > this to blend say 100 kilos of plastic: > > 25.7 grams of hipperdepip red 1322 (names and number are fictive) > 6.25 grams of blublob red 1022 > 0.55 gram of gargoyle tongue blue 1201 > 2 grams of Dutch burnt orange 549 > 16 milligrans of sunrise yellow 22 > 56 milligrams of chicken yellow 59 > now wash you hand when your done.... > > You get red. When your sodium lamp 's light, which has only two yellow > spectral lines, reflects from that plastic, ONLY the yellow will be > visible... > > That's the reason for the "sick " colours. > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm > Verzonden: woensdag 5 januari 2005 15:56 > Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > > > Well, I think that, more precisely, it is that the sodium lamp just does > not > have anything even approaching a continuous spectrum, so that a lot of > things just aren't "seen". Such as reds, reds, which come out a sickly > chartreuse color. > > Margaret > >>Actually its not night vision, per se, that is the problem. Its been many >>a >>year since astronomers looked thru a telescope. The problem is the >>emission >>lines from the lamps, sodium's lines are easier to eliminate from >>spectrograms. Mercury lamps generate a lot of lines and maybe, iirc, some >>continuous emissions too. > > > > -------Original Message----- > -- > --Hi, Kitty -- I remember the sodium vapor lights from back > --when I was a gay young thing -- they sure did rotten things > --to colors. I can surely understand why the merchants don't like them. > -- > --Margaret > -- > --Here on the Big Island nearly all our streetlights are low > --pressure Sodium > --Vapor lamps, the result of a county ordinance back in the > --1980's at the > --request of various telescope directors on Mauna Kea. > --Astronomers didn't > --want their viewing diminished by the more common bright white > --Mercury Vapor > --lamps; the orange Sodium Vapor lights do not interfere with night > --vision. One exception is the main tourist > --shopping/entertainment street on > --the Kona side of the island, where merchants say women don't > --like the way > --they appear under the orange lights. > -- > --Aloha, Kitty > -- > -- > --At 06:59 AM 1/2/2005, you wrote: > -- > -->Axel, > -->Thanks for your expert information, I find it informative. I'm > -->wondering > -->about the old Mercury Vapor lamps that were used back in the > --'40's. I've > -->used a couple of them and found many more minerals will > --respond to it than > -->those on the market today. The lamps also had 100 watts of > --output and were > -->used during the Uranium prospecting activities in the > --1950's. It takes a > -->long time for the old lamps to warm up to full output but > --once they do the > -->spot light effect is amazing. Rocks will glow from many > --yards away. It's > -->my understanding that Bill has acquired one of these lamps > --from a mutual > -->friend. Thanks again for your comments and education. > -->Cheers! > -->Wes > -- > -- > ---- > --No virus found in this outgoing message. > --Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > --Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004 > -- > -- > --_______________________________________________ > --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > --Subscription Services: > --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > -- > -- > -- > --_______________________________________________ > --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > --Subscription Services: > --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > -- > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jemstone at amug.org Wed Jan 5 14:11:34 2005 From: jemstone at amug.org (John McLaughlin) Date: Wed Jan 5 14:11:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garmin GPSMAP 76 References: <20041227142258.64297.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com><001601c4ec23$b181c9a0$56a3490c@pete><6C1216E5-582D-11D9-B99E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com><6.2.0.14.2.20050103070746.02603d90@mail.spiritone.com><88CA264E-5DB3-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com><6.2.0.14.2.20050103120933.02414c98@mail.spiritone.com> <68FF8202-5E9D-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <004001c4f373$87ce0130$f25a2741@MCWIDOM> You bet I use the routing feature. I have a Garmin GPSMap 60C and the Garmin topo software (1:100,000) for the US. I lead a lot of field trips for the Arizona Leaverite club, in some cases to areas where it has been a number of years since I visited, or where the terrain is confusing and has lots of road choices. Two recent destinations were the Anderson Mine in Yavapai County and the Sheep Bridge area near the Verde River. Both are well off of the nearest paved road and have a number of roads intersecting the route. Arizona often has no road markings of any kind on lesser dirt roads. It is relatively easy to look at a map and determine the route. It's trickier to apply that to the actual terrain. With the topo software I just use the "Routing Tool" on the Garmin software and click along the map from the start of the route to the end. The software allows 250 waypoints for each route, a number rarely needed (though one could use multiple routes end to end if necessary). Each click is a waypoint. The route usually takes about two to three minutes to lay out and about 20 seconds to download. I usually click on every turn. When following the route the GPS unit beeps before each turn. Though the battery lasts 30 hours (that's for alkaline - metal halide last much longer) I use a 12 volt converter in the vehicle so I can have the screen brightly lit at night. Finding a new location/mine is just as easy. I can pick up a good GPS point from Topo Zone's 1:24:000 maps, or from Gary Brown's MasMils/PLUS CD. The route is then just finding the best looking roads to the site (generally there is only one feasible route, but once in a while there's a choice). I just got back from a trip to another state in which my wife and I did some hiking in new terrain. I plotted the routes before leaving and downloaded them. It was like having a guide. The odometer and bread crumb tracking provisions are also great and very useful in finding one's way back to the vehicle in broken country. I saw your comment Lanny about liking to use another route back to explore new territory, and in general I do that. However, there are many times when it takes a while to find a route down a cliff or through very chopped up country, of which Arizona has lots, so the back track feature is very appreciated - especially when daylight is fading fast. John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Garmin GPSMAP 76 > Question for those who actually use the "routes" feature on a GPS. What do > you really do with it? Someone commented in a message last week (maybe it > was Tim) that he downloaded routes from Mapsource or other software with > complete route and waypoints, which I could see as being useful in areas > where there are a lot more logging roads than are on the topo or forest > map, but other than that, does anyone really make routes? > > Lanny > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Jan 5 14:50:39 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Jan 5 14:50:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescennt LEDs In-Reply-To: <3k70mg$k81qjh@mxip15a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: Hi Tommy, yes... very close to the 254.6 nm that the low pressure Hg-vapor lamps produce. I think it may be even a little better since much of the so called "SW minerals" seem to respond as good or better to mid-wave UV (310 nm). I think (just a thought, no facts here ;-) that the bulk of fluorescent minerals will perform at their best somewhere in between SW and MW. However, making LEDs that emit such short waves is difficult. It IS a highly ionizing radiation (certainly at short distances of the source) that even affects inert substances such as glass (think of the solarization of filters). Making such a SW-LED last is probably even more difficult than making it period! Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Tommy Armstrong Verzonden: woensdag 5 januari 2005 6:16 Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Fluorescennt LEDs Just read article that guy at University of South Carolina had created an LED that emmitted at 250-255 nm. This is getting mighty close to short wave mercury lamps or is at the same wave length. If indeed, which I have no doubts, that these will be produced --the market out there is just too incredibly large for them not to be developed, they would make very nice black lights for mineral collectors. The real market will be in water and wastewater plants for disinfection and that market is almost unlimited, especially with EPA regulations concerning chlorine limits in waste water discharges. http://www.ee.sc.edu/Events/DissertationDefense-18Nov04-Wu.htm http://www.compoundsemiconductor.net/articles/magazine/10/5/1/2#cssuvos1_5-0 4 Tommy Armstrong "Science is extraordinarily stupid about people as people and the consequence of this stupidity is going to do us all in if we don't do something about it" Walker Percy _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Gslrocks at aol.com Wed Jan 5 15:08:35 2005 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 5 15:08:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescennt LEDs Message-ID: <9f.55cb2cbb.2f0dcd73@aol.com> The new yttrium glass Philips is using does not solarize to the same extent that the normal quartz glass does. In fact the bulbs have a life expectancy of 9,000 hrs vs hundreds to 1000 hrs in normal UV lamps. That should have a positive effect un UV LED production and life expectancy i would imagine. We use the yttrium bulbs in the Way Too Cool lamps because of longer life in the bulbs ( higher output over a longer time base). Greg Lesinski GSLROCKS 4726 Porter Center Rd. Lewiston NY 14092 Fluorescent minerals, ultraviolet lamps and reference books authorized distributor and reseller for Way Too Cool lamps website www.gslrocks.com GSLROCKS@AOL.COM 716-754-9729 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny at lrream.com Wed Jan 5 15:14:18 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Wed Jan 5 15:12:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garmin GPSMAP 76 In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20050105095630.02e4e308@mail.spiritone.com> References: <20041227142258.64297.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com> <001601c4ec23$b181c9a0$56a3490c@pete> <6C1216E5-582D-11D9-B99E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20050103070746.02603d90@mail.spiritone.com> <88CA264E-5DB3-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20050103120933.02414c98@mail.spiritone.com> <68FF8202-5E9D-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20050104160801.02cc5560@mail.spiritone.com> <783DDAA8-5EDC-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20050105095630.02e4e308@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <86A8EBF2-5F6F-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi Tim, Apparently you must have the Mapsource Americas Autoroute, which is the only one that I can find that includes Canada with the US data. This is included in both the V and the 76 models. I would like something of better scale with contour lines, so am looking at the Mapsource TOPO US which is the 1:100,000 coverage (These appear to be the equivalent of the old USGS 15 minute topo maps). I think using the latter in the field will be acceptable for following routes in the woods and mountains. When needed, supplement that with a paper or electronic 1:24,000 topo on the laptop. I have National Geographics TOPO now. It has 5 levels of scale. The fourth is 1:100,000 and appears to be the data for the 15 minute quads, and the fifth level is 1:24,000 scale and is the 71/2 minute quads. I can attach my GPS to the laptop and follow along that way, but it's not really convenient (step on the brake hard and watch the laptrop fly into the dashboard....), and certainly not convenient to carry on a hike! One nice thing about looking at both the 15 minute and 71/2 minute quads is they show different named mines in some areas. You mentioned the USGS seemingly forgetting that the NW states have people too and would like to have the maps updated. That's certainly true, they released a lot of the 71/2 minute quads in preliminary sheets, many, still not in the final copy. This is obvious in TOPO where the 1:100,000 scale map is a final copy, and the same area in some 1:24,000 scale have only the preliminary "notes" not the mine names or mine symbols. Regards, Lanny On Jan 5, 2005, at 10:01 AM, Tim Fisher wrote: > Lanny, when you get the software, you get MapSource, which has > DeLorme-like 100k or so resolution maps for the US and Canada. You > also get City Select which you can choose to install or not. These are > more like 1:3000ish scale maps and have incredible detail. I don't > know which MapSource product the basic maps are; all the CD case says > is Garmin MapSource with City Select... > > At 09:41 PM 1/4/2005, you wrote: > >> Hi Tim, >> >> That is the page I was looking at when I wrote that the V does not >> come with Mapsource. I guess I should have asked up front just what >> Mapsource you meant. I was thinking of Mapsource Topo US, but I guess >> you were talking about Mapsource CitySelect. The way your original >> message was written, I thought you were mentioning how useful you >> found CitySelect as a separate thing. I'm not interested in >> CitySelect, so it doesn't matter to me if it isn't included. I'm >> interested in the included Autoroute as something convenient to use >> much like a roadmap, and Topo US for use in the field, although I >> would rather it was 1:24,000 scale like the MapSource National Parks. >> >> Lanny >> >> >> > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From lanny at lrream.com Wed Jan 5 15:27:14 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Wed Jan 5 15:25:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garmin GPSMAP 76 In-Reply-To: <010520051725.9306.41DC22ED000A4C3F0000245A21587667209D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> References: <010520051725.9306.41DC22ED000A4C3F0000245A21587667209D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: <54DC49CA-5F71-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi Don, The units I've looked at come with just about all the "useful" datums of the world. If your geologist friend travels the world, there will probably be one for just about everywhere he goes. In the USA, you will most likely want to either use the CONUS 1927 datum for which most of the topographic maps were drawn to or the WGS84, which is a 1984 "standard" adopted for most of the world, including the USA (but of course it is a little different than he 1927 datum that was already in use for so many maps). Yes, what we've been talking about in "mapping" are the units that have maps built in, and/or allow the downloading (and uploading) of maps. They have various capabilities to add waypoints, routes, etc. to those maps. They work just fine in the Pac. NW, and everywhere else in the world. GPS coverage is universal, except I read somewhere that when you start getting close to the poles the satellites are getting kind of low on the horizon and their accuracy begins to suffer a bit. That probably wouldn't matter to me. If I was heading for one of the poles, the batteries would probably freeze solid, so would my fingers and toes and getting close to one of the poles wouldn't seem very important. If you make it out to Idaho, enjoy yourself, maybe I'll see in the field somewhere. Regards, Lanny On Jan 5, 2005, at 9:25 AM, morningstar@att.net wrote: > > > Thanks guys, > > I did look at the features, but those are highlights, and sometimes > the good stuff is in the details. For example, the GPS V has a number > of datums, but which ones? > > Also, I think I see the semantic discrepancy here. To me, "mapping" > means having your 7.5 min. topo quad and a GPS, writing down lat/long > coordinates using WGS-84 datum; or maybe working with a UTM or T-R > map. I think you guys are talking about having detailed maps built > right into the GPS--is that what makes it so expensive? I have a > laptop with DeLorme TopoUSA (or TopoZone, or whatever it is) and > MAS/MILS, and though I haven't used the PS hooked directly to my > laptop yet, I apparently can. I realize that in the rugged coutry, I > won't be using a laptop, and then I would want either a built-in map > or a topo quad, but if it's that much difference in price, I'll take > the paper. > > I'm not one of those upgrade hounds, however, I must admit that the > GPS V adds value over my III+ (anybpody want to buy a well-kept, used > III+ cheap?) I might upgrade to the V before I drive all the way out > to Idaho; I like th navigation features. > > How do these work in the Pac NW? > > > Thanks, > Don > > > > > > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: Lanny >> Hi Don, >> >> One thing that he, or you, might do, is go to the Garmin web page for >> comparing units. Select a few, see what comes up, then do a few >> more... >> That way, you can get a good idea of the features of each unit and >> which one(s) has the features most needed at the best price. There are >> good units under $200 that will hold a lot of routes and waypoints, >> but >> for mapping, they are mostly more expensive. >> >> Regards, >> >> Lanny >> >> >> On Jan 4, 2005, at 5:18 PM, Don H wrote: >> >>>> >>> >>> Howdy, >>> >>> Nice link--I read it, but I'm not sure about this discussion you two >>> are having. I am trying to help a geologist (a real geologist) pick >>> a >>> GPS to buy, on a limited budget, and he liked my Garmin GPS III+. I >>> know that there is better out there now, like the Garmin V. Doesn't >>> it have waypoints? If someone wants to map data points around a >>> few-square-mile area, would the V be good enough? I know the III+ >>> was >>> the common man's workhorse in its day, and it still does what I need >>> it to do. I just want to recommend something for him that will do >>> what he needs it to do and not spend more than he really needs to >>> spend. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Don >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From johnjold at comcast.net Wed Jan 5 16:25:47 2005 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Wed Jan 5 16:26:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS Message-ID: <82AC698A-5F79-11D9-8D71-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> Thanks to the people who answered my total beginner questions. I learned the vocabulary necessary to google for information. Had I not made the decision to buy before reading the recent comment on the Gamin detail maps of National Forest areas I might have gone with the Gamin. I was attracted to the Magellan Topo but it had only 16 MB of additional memory and would not take Topo Canada and was recently discontinued. The Meridian line has 16 MB of map preloaded for road use but can be loaded withtopo data with 64 MB Secure Digital chips. For a long trip additional chips may be preloaded with data. Each 64 MB chip can hold 4 16 MB regions. I am not sure yet how much I can get into a 16MB region. The packages just arrived and are way too cold to think of using. Besides the "Quick Start Guide" is the size of a young paperback. I got the GPS unit from Comp-U-Plus at roughly 52% of list price. Some of you recognize my name as Dutch. In the Dutch Ghetto that Kreigh and I live in we have a reputation for being cheap. What they don't know is that we are proud of being cheap. I outdid myself on this one with one mistake. I saw a MapSend topo for the United States at a good price and bid on it just before I found it at another site for $67 with a $20 rebate. I paid $68 on eBay. That site (Adventure GPS) had the memory chips 64 MB size for $22 each. The same thing was $55 at the site I got my map CDs. Being cheap, I gave up color (didn't buy a color TV til "97" only cause they quit making BW). I also gave up automatic routing capacity since I have been doing that ok. I bought the Magellan Meridian Gold not needing color or the barometer available in the other Meridian models. I have a Mac so lucky for me I have a fisherman friend who is interested in sharing map ware and has a PC. We have a few weeks to learn the thing well enough to use it before Quartzsite. I realize that there were many Gamin models that I would have been happy with but I covered reviews that suggested the Gamin line is too small for my big hands. The main selling point for me was the ability to pre load for a long trip just by using easily changeable chips. The VHS tape I ordered for the Meridian line was not included so this won't be as easy as I hoped. I can't reorder until I figure out if it is backordered, til then, I'm on my own. As an aside, I belong to 9 or so Yahoo and a few MSN rockound groups, for some reason this is the active group. Everybody else is BORING. Glad I was led to you! From lanny at lrream.com Wed Jan 5 20:04:22 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Wed Jan 5 20:02:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS In-Reply-To: <82AC698A-5F79-11D9-8D71-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> References: <82AC698A-5F79-11D9-8D71-000A95D8C7A8@comcast.net> Message-ID: <0C2A89C6-5F98-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi John, Be sure and tell us how it worked when you get back. Lanny On Jan 5, 2005, at 4:25 PM, John Joldersma wrote: > Thanks to the people who answered my total beginner questions. > I learned the vocabulary necessary to google for information. Had I > not > made the decision to buy before reading the recent comment on > the Gamin detail maps of National Forest areas I might have gone with > the Gamin. > I was attracted to the Magellan Topo but it had only 16 MB > of additional memory and would not take Topo Canada and was recently > discontinued. The Meridian line has 16 MB of map preloaded for road > use > but can be loaded withtopo data with 64 MB Secure Digital chips. For a > long trip additional chips may be preloaded with data. Each 64 MB chip > can hold 4 16 MB regions. I am not sure yet how much I can get into a > 16MB region. The packages just arrived and are way too cold to think > of > using. Besides the "Quick Start Guide" is the size of a young > paperback. > I got the GPS unit from Comp-U-Plus at roughly 52% of list price. > Some > of you recognize my name as Dutch. In the Dutch Ghetto that Kreigh > and I > live in we have a reputation for being cheap. What they don't know is > that > we are proud of being cheap. I outdid myself on this one with one > mistake. > I saw a MapSend topo for the United States at a good price and bid on > it > just before I found it at another site for $67 with a $20 rebate. I > paid $68 on > eBay. That site (Adventure GPS) had the memory chips 64 MB size for > $22 each. > The same thing was $55 at the site I got my map CDs. Being cheap, I > gave up > color (didn't buy a color TV til "97" only cause they quit making BW). > I also gave > up automatic routing capacity since I have been doing that ok. I > bought the > Magellan Meridian Gold not needing color or the barometer available in > the other > Meridian models. > I have a Mac so lucky for me I have a fisherman friend who is > interested in > sharing map ware and has a PC. We have a few weeks to learn the thing > well enough to use it before Quartzsite. > I realize that there were many Gamin models that I would have > been happy with > but I covered reviews that suggested the Gamin line is too small for > my big hands. > The main selling point for me was the ability to pre load for a long > trip just by using > easily changeable chips. > The VHS tape I ordered for the Meridian line was not included so > this won't be > as easy as I hoped. I can't reorder until I figure out if it is > backordered, til then, I'm > on my own. > > As an aside, I belong to 9 or so Yahoo and a few MSN rockound > groups, for some > reason this is the active group. Everybody else is BORING. Glad I > was led to you! > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From hptdesigns at charter.net Wed Jan 5 21:08:20 2005 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Wed Jan 5 21:01:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dreaded Database Thread Need 2 beta testers In-Reply-To: <54DC49CA-5F71-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <3khj1h$fr3545@mxip07a.cluster1.charter.net> Ok I promise that this will not get into another long involved thread on the merits and demerits of mineral databases. As yall probably know, Don and I have been working on this darn thing for too long to think about. And much of the limitation to my program is that it has to have MS Access 2003. Well, I got lucky and Microsoft got generous at a recent developers conference and gave me a legit version of their extensibilty options for Access ($499). It includes a packaging program that can add a runtime version of Access 2003 with an Access Application so that the user does not have to have Access installed on his machine. Now since I have no machines without Access, I need a couple of beta testers to see if can get this thing running on machine without it (more than likely 95% of this list). Email me at tfa@brickengraver.com if interested. Tommy Armstrong tfa@brickengraver.com "Science is extraordinarily stupid about people as people and the consequence of this stupidity is going to do us all in if we don't do something about it" Walker Percy From lanny at lrream.com Wed Jan 5 22:00:16 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Wed Jan 5 21:58:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garmin GPSMAP 76 In-Reply-To: <004001c4f373$87ce0130$f25a2741@MCWIDOM> References: <20041227142258.64297.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com><001601c4ec23$b181c9a0$56a3490c@pete><6C1216E5-582D-11D9-B99E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com><6.2.0.14.2.20050103070746.02603d90@mail.spiritone.com><88CA264E-5DB3-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com><6.2.0.14.2.20050103120933.02414c98@mail.spiritone.com> <68FF8202-5E9D-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <004001c4f373$87ce0130$f25a2741@MCWIDOM> Message-ID: <3D0E2029-5FA8-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi John, Thanks for the info. Those sound like pretty good uses for the routes and waypoints and maps on the GPS unit. I guess I'm just not quite with it though. I've just never felt the need to have those as an aid to get back to my truck; and in most of the back country where there aren't too many roads (like some of the logged forests have); I just don't see me using a GPS route as a tool for getting around. I was primarily looking at the simple use of something like "the GPS shows I'm here now at this junction I need to take a left," on the occasion where there is some confusion. But then, I've mostly been driving by the seat of my pants with small scale maps, and now that I have the National Geographic TOPO series with complete 1:24,000 scale coverage of the Northwest, I'll probably lose that ability and start depending on gadgets more and more al the time. Either that, or you will hear where I apparently got lost and disappeared... Regards, Lanny On Jan 5, 2005, at 2:11 PM, John McLaughlin wrote: > You bet I use the routing feature. I have a Garmin GPSMap 60C and the > Garmin topo software (1:100,000) for the US. I lead a lot of field > trips for the Arizona Leaverite club, in some cases to areas where it > has been a number of years since I visited, or where the terrain is > confusing and has lots of road choices. Two recent destinations were > the Anderson Mine in Yavapai County and the Sheep Bridge area near the > Verde River. Both are well off of the nearest paved road and have a > number of roads intersecting the route. Arizona often has no road > markings of any kind on lesser dirt roads. > > It is relatively easy to look at a map and determine the route. It's > trickier to apply that to the actual terrain. With the topo software > I just use the "Routing Tool" on the Garmin software and click along > the map from the start of the route to the end. The software allows > 250 waypoints for each route, a number rarely needed (though one could > use multiple routes end to end if necessary). Each click is a > waypoint. The route usually takes about two to three minutes to lay > out and about 20 seconds to download. I usually click on every turn. > When following the route the GPS unit beeps before each turn. Though > the battery lasts 30 hours (that's for alkaline - metal halide last > much longer) I use a 12 volt converter in the vehicle so I can have > the screen brightly lit at night. > > Finding a new location/mine is just as easy. I can pick up a good GPS > point from Topo Zone's 1:24:000 maps, or from Gary Brown's > MasMils/PLUS CD. The route is then just finding the best looking > roads to the site (generally there is only one feasible route, but > once in a while there's a choice). I just got back from a trip to > another state in which my wife and I did some hiking in new terrain. > I plotted the routes before leaving and downloaded them. It was like > having a guide. > > The odometer and bread crumb tracking provisions are also great and > very useful in finding one's way back to the vehicle in broken > country. I saw your comment Lanny about liking to use another route > back to explore new territory, and in general I do that. However, > there are many times when it takes a while to find a route down a > cliff or through very chopped up country, of which Arizona has lots, > so the back track feature is very appreciated - especially when > daylight is fading fast. > > John McLaughlin > Glendale, Arizona > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny" > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Garmin GPSMAP 76 > >> Question for those who actually use the "routes" feature on a GPS. >> What do you really do with it? Someone commented in a message last >> week (maybe it was Tim) that he downloaded routes from Mapsource or >> other software with complete route and waypoints, which I could see >> as being useful in areas where there are a lot more logging roads >> than are on the topo or forest map, but other than that, does anyone >> really make routes? >> >> Lanny > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From bombastus at worldnet.att.net Thu Jan 6 06:08:21 2005 From: bombastus at worldnet.att.net (Homer Eshbaugh) Date: Thu Jan 6 06:09:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] comet and meteors visible References: <002901c4f0e9$4d6f4300$76a6490c@pete> <002a01c4f128$97a38b40$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <000c01c4f3f9$2e6abd50$4499490c@HHEPC> Dear Rockhounds List, There is a great list of up-coming meteor showers, with notes on viewing conditions vis a vis the moon, at http://www.geocities.com/~starwanderer/meteor.htm. You can also sign up for a very low volume mailing list that alerts you to upcoming showers. It doesn't allow the posting of comments/discussions - just gives you a heads-up about the up-coming shower. Homer .----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Goldstein" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 6:10 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] comet and meteors visible >I saw it last month when it was SW of Orion. It was barely naked eye >visibility then. We haven't had much clear weather lately, so I haven't had >the chance to spot it in binoculars from my suburban back yard. > > Alan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter J. Modreski" > To: "Rockhounds@Lists.Drizzle.Com" > Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 11:37 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] comet and meteors visible > > > Dear Rockhounds List, > > Maybe this borders on off-topic, but after all, Kitty posts messages about > hot lava rocks-in-the-making being visible in Hawaii, so I'll post one > about some neat rocks sailing by outside the earth that are readily > visible right now. > > First the comet; you might like to know that Comet Machholz is very easily > visible in evening skies, as a fuzzy near-circular spot in the > constellation Taurus, below the Pleiades. I could see it very clearly > with binoculars last night; it's supposed to be visible to the naked eye, > but it takes a darker environment than here in the Denver suburbs. You > can see a picture & info about it on www.spaceweather.com . It's supposed > to have a distinctly green color (hey, do you think luminescence of the > cometary dust plays a role in that)--I don't think I could see that--and > on magnificent, a separate "ion tail" is visible. The comet is > approaching the earth, and I believe that's why the tail we see isn't a > streak, but just a near-circular pattern since we're looking at it head > on. > > No, it's not supposed to hit the earth--but I'll put in a plug for a good > book, if you've never read it, "Lucifer's Hammer", written back in the > 70's I think, is an excellent and suspenseful story about a > multiple-impact comet colliding with earth. Luis Alvarez himself is > supposed to have recommended this as good reading for anyone who wants a > realistic view of what a major impact would be like (not > pleasant)--speaking of tsunamis and such. > > The comet is now visible to the right of Aldebaran and below and a little > to the right of the Pleiades, high in the south sky. It moves > significantly each night, and will be just to the right (west) of the > Pleiades by about Jan. 7. I could even see its position to nearby stars > change significantly last night, between observing it at about 7 p.m. vs. > later at 10 p.m. > > And then the meteors, the Quadrantid meteor shower is supposed to be > visible before dawn tomorrow morning, Monday Jan. 3. It's supposed to be > readily visible in western North America, with the peak of the shower > around 4 a.m.; look ENE. If you're a REAL optimist, get out your > catcher's mitt and maybe you can snag one of the larger chips if it makes > it way through the atmosphere into your backyard, and you'll have a > superbly valuable specimen! The shower is also described on > spaceweather.com . > > (Yes, I realize that they are only sand-grain size and don't normally make > it to the surface, except as floating "cosmic dust" grains--a pity.) But > think about it (speaking of incandescence now, though luminescence plays a > role too)--meteors are known to become visible as they enter the outer > atmosphere at a height of about 60 miles, give or take 50%. And they're > visible from the surface; that means, that a grain of sand, 60 miles away > on the top of Pikes Peak (as I view it from here in Denver) if it were > that hot would be giving off enough light to be visible at that distance, > if it were a meteor up in the sky! (Of course, the atmosphere path 60 > miles straight up is a lot thinner and clearer than the 60 miles across > the surface from here to Pikes Peak.) But those little things are REALLY > hot! Plus the luminescence. > > Wishing everyone have a great January 2 of a new year, > > Pete > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From kadok at infowest.com Thu Jan 6 08:13:19 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Thu Jan 6 08:13:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050106161321.D8F79CB99E5@delivery.infowest.com> Right! I was just trying to explain why storekeepers do not want sodium vapor lights! Even fluorescent lights can be a problem in some cases, bucause they do not have a continuous spectrum, either. (Ever take a color picture under fluorescents?) (I love your recipe!) Margaret Yo Margaret, because all paints are "composed" by several pigments, they reflect several wavelengths... I made a piment mix for a batch of ABS-plastic a few times and you'd be surprised how many piments you need to make a "simpel" batch of red plastic... I don't recall the names of the pigments but the receipe is something like this to blend say 100 kilos of plastic: 25.7 grams of hipperdepip red 1322 (names and number are fictive) 6.25 grams of blublob red 1022 0.55 gram of gargoyle tongue blue 1201 2 grams of Dutch burnt orange 549 16 milligrans of sunrise yellow 22 56 milligrams of chicken yellow 59 now wash you hand when your done.... You get red. When your sodium lamp 's light, which has only two yellow spectral lines, reflects from that plastic, ONLY the yellow will be visible... That's the reason for the "sick " colours. Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm Verzonden: woensdag 5 januari 2005 15:56 Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence Well, I think that, more precisely, it is that the sodium lamp just does not have anything even approaching a continuous spectrum, so that a lot of things just aren't "seen". Such as reds, reds, which come out a sickly chartreuse color. Margaret >Actually its not night vision, per se, that is the problem. Its been many a >year since astronomers looked thru a telescope. The problem is the emission >lines from the lamps, sodium's lines are easier to eliminate from >spectrograms. Mercury lamps generate a lot of lines and maybe, iirc, some >continuous emissions too. -------Original Message----- -- --Hi, Kitty -- I remember the sodium vapor lights from back --when I was a gay young thing -- they sure did rotten things --to colors. I can surely understand why the merchants don't like them. -- --Margaret -- --Here on the Big Island nearly all our streetlights are low --pressure Sodium --Vapor lamps, the result of a county ordinance back in the --1980's at the --request of various telescope directors on Mauna Kea. --Astronomers didn't --want their viewing diminished by the more common bright white --Mercury Vapor --lamps; the orange Sodium Vapor lights do not interfere with night --vision. One exception is the main tourist --shopping/entertainment street on --the Kona side of the island, where merchants say women don't --like the way --they appear under the orange lights. -- --Aloha, Kitty -- -- --At 06:59 AM 1/2/2005, you wrote: -- -->Axel, -->Thanks for your expert information, I find it informative. I'm -->wondering -->about the old Mercury Vapor lamps that were used back in the --'40's. I've -->used a couple of them and found many more minerals will --respond to it than -->those on the market today. The lamps also had 100 watts of --output and were -->used during the Uranium prospecting activities in the --1950's. It takes a -->long time for the old lamps to warm up to full output but --once they do the -->spot light effect is amazing. Rocks will glow from many --yards away. It's -->my understanding that Bill has acquired one of these lamps --from a mutual -->friend. Thanks again for your comments and education. -->Cheers! -->Wes -- -- ---- --No virus found in this outgoing message. --Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. --Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004 -- -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- -- -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tim at orerockon.com Thu Jan 6 11:08:37 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Jan 6 11:08:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dreaded Database Thread Need 2 beta testers In-Reply-To: <3khj1h$fr3545@mxip07a.cluster1.charter.net> References: <54DC49CA-5F71-11D9-991E-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <3khj1h$fr3545@mxip07a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20050106110628.02e8ba30@mail.spiritone.com> When you package a database with runtime, the database itself specifies that the runtime routines be used exclusively, and executing the app does not call any dll's from any Access versions on your PC other than runtime. I know this because I got too clever for my own good & decided I didn't need both Access 2003 & runtime both on my system, and uninstalled runtime. All my runtime databases ceased to function. At 09:08 PM 1/5/2005, you wrote: >Ok I promise that this will not get into another long involved thread on the >merits and demerits of mineral databases. As yall probably know, Don and I >have been working on this darn thing for too long to think about. And much >of the limitation to my program is that it has to have MS Access 2003. Well, >I got lucky and Microsoft got generous at a recent developers conference and >gave me a legit version of their extensibilty options for Access ($499). It >includes a packaging program that can add a runtime version of Access 2003 >with an Access Application so that the user does not have to have Access >installed on his machine. Now since I have no machines without Access, I >need a couple of beta testers to see if can get this thing running on >machine without it (more than likely 95% of this list). Email me at >tfa@brickengraver.com if interested. > >Tommy Armstrong >tfa@brickengraver.com > >"Science is extraordinarily stupid about people as people and the >consequence of this stupidity is going to do us all in if we don't do >something about it" > Walker Percy > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From willows at rose.net Thu Jan 6 13:03:08 2005 From: willows at rose.net (James A Rollins) Date: Thu Jan 6 13:03:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] UV LEDs Message-ID: <00f101c4f433$20705a40$430611ac@Pteraphyte> I bought this little UV light at Wal-Mart during their Halloween clearance for 85 cents. How can I determine its wave length? It is about as big as two quarters piled on eachother. (Switch, battery and UV LED.) Are there some common household items that would glow at certain wave lengths? James A. Rollins --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From buff1 at ptd.net Thu Jan 6 13:11:17 2005 From: buff1 at ptd.net (Dennis Buffenmyer) Date: Thu Jan 6 13:11:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] UV LEDs In-Reply-To: <00f101c4f433$20705a40$430611ac@Pteraphyte> References: <00f101c4f433$20705a40$430611ac@Pteraphyte> Message-ID: <41DDA975.7010106@ptd.net> Okay, I'm about ready to bite off on this.... where can a guy get some of these uv leds?? I must not be looking around in the right scrap part boxes yet... I suspect that at $.85 you could buy a bunch and put them behind a good filter and get some quality results. James A Rollins wrote: >I bought this little UV light at Wal-Mart during their Halloween clearance for 85 cents. How can I determine its wave length? It is about as big as two quarters piled on eachother. (Switch, battery and UV LED.) >Are there some common household items that would glow at certain wave lengths? >James A. Rollins > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > From willows at rose.net Thu Jan 6 13:43:13 2005 From: willows at rose.net (James A Rollins) Date: Thu Jan 6 13:43:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Little UV lights Message-ID: <010b01c4f438$bab693d0$430611ac@Pteraphyte> The package that the light (and Halloween make-up) came in says that the lights are made in China. They were distributed by Rubie's Costume Co., Richmond Hill, NY and Markham, Ontario, Canada L3R0J1. I'll try a search to see what turns up. Don't know what I will do with the flourescent make-up though. James A. Rollins --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From DOMMELEN at DAL.CA Thu Jan 6 13:47:20 2005 From: DOMMELEN at DAL.CA (Ronnie Van Dommelen) Date: Thu Jan 6 13:47:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] UV LEDs In-Reply-To: <00f101c4f433$20705a40$430611ac@Pteraphyte> References: <00f101c4f433$20705a40$430611ac@Pteraphyte> Message-ID: <1105048040.41ddb1e852446@my2.dal.ca> James, I might be completely wrong, but as far as I know, the only UV LEDs commercially available are long wave (on the border with visible, and they put out a fair bit of visible too). I have two questions - is it definitely an LED (I don't know what else it might be, especially at that size, but have to ask) and is it really UV? If if is UV then ideally you shouldn't see anything (LEDs have a much narrower spectral range than other UV lights and should either produce only UV, or as I said earlier, if they are on the edge of visible then they will appear purplish). The easiest things to check are laundry soap, postage stamps, and lint (everywhere!). Ronnie Quoting James A Rollins : > I bought this little UV light at Wal-Mart during their Halloween clearance > for 85 cents. How can I determine its wave length? It is about as big as > two quarters piled on eachother. (Switch, battery and UV LED.) > Are there some common household items that would glow at certain wave > lengths? > James A. Rollins > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From DOMMELEN at DAL.CA Thu Jan 6 13:54:51 2005 From: DOMMELEN at DAL.CA (Ronnie Van Dommelen) Date: Thu Jan 6 13:54:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] UV LEDs In-Reply-To: <1105048040.41ddb1e852446@my2.dal.ca> References: <00f101c4f433$20705a40$430611ac@Pteraphyte> <1105048040.41ddb1e852446@my2.dal.ca> Message-ID: <1105048491.41ddb3aba41cc@my2.dal.ca> James, I reread you original post. The fluorescent items that I listed simply fluoresce, but not to a specific wavelength. It is difficult because in most cases if something responds to longwave, it also responds to shorter wavelengths (the light has sufficient and excess energy to trigger the fluorescence). Ronnie From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Thu Jan 6 13:58:50 2005 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Thu Jan 6 13:58:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] UV LEDs In-Reply-To: <1105048040.41ddb1e852446@my2.dal.ca> References: <00f101c4f433$20705a40$430611ac@Pteraphyte> <1105048040.41ddb1e852446@my2.dal.ca> Message-ID: <41DDB49A.1060509@xs4all.nl> Ronnie is right. All UV-LEDs today are long wave. I looked at it's light through a spectroscope and they have a continuous spectrum from UV all the way to red. I know NOTHING about LED technology, but I do notice that the green LED on my keyboard has a much narrower spectrum. Cheers, Maurice Ronnie Van Dommelen wrote: >James, > >I might be completely wrong, but as far as I know, the only UV LEDs commercially >available are long wave (on the border with visible, and they put out a fair >bit of visible too). I have two questions - is it definitely an LED (I don't >know what else it might be, especially at that size, but have to ask) and is it >really UV? If if is UV then ideally you shouldn't see anything (LEDs have a >much narrower spectral range than other UV lights and should either produce >only UV, or as I said earlier, if they are on the edge of visible then they >will appear purplish). The easiest things to check are laundry soap, postage >stamps, and lint (everywhere!). > >Ronnie > >Quoting James A Rollins : > > > >>I bought this little UV light at Wal-Mart during their Halloween clearance >>for 85 cents. How can I determine its wave length? It is about as big as >>two quarters piled on eachother. (Switch, battery and UV LED.) >>Are there some common household items that would glow at certain wave >>lengths? >>James A. Rollins >> >>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >>--- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Thu Jan 6 14:35:45 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Jan 6 14:36:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] UV LEDs In-Reply-To: <41DDA975.7010106@ptd.net> References: <00f101c4f433$20705a40$430611ac@Pteraphyte> <41DDA975.7010106@ptd.net> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20050106135905.02e7a228@mail.spiritone.com> You can buy near-LW (395-409 nm or so) UV LEDs & lights just about anywhere. You can get multi-cell near-UV LED flashlights that are manufactured to check the UV strip in US money that are near-LW UV with a faint visible output. Try the LED Museum: http://ledmuseum.home.att.net/ledleft.htm They also review near-UV LEDs: http://ledmuseum.home.att.net/leduv.htm This site has a 370 nm money checker and pointer which is as close to LW UV as you can get in a manufactured light: http://www.roithner-laser.com/uvpointer.htm Also try this page for a 350 nm LED which is the shortest wavelength you can get: http://www.roithner-laser.com/All_Datasheets/LEDs/RLT350-30.pdf They list for $44. They also have several in the 365 nm range for $10 - $15. The 365 nm LEDs on this page are suppsoed to be about $33; they have no way to order that I can see on their site: http://www.nichia.co.jp/product/led-lamp-uv.html At 01:11 PM 1/6/2005, you wrote: >Okay, >I'm about ready to bite off on this.... where can a guy get some of these >uv leds?? I must not be looking around in the right scrap part boxes yet... >I suspect that at $.85 you could buy a bunch and put them behind a good >filter and get some quality results. > >James A Rollins wrote: > >>I bought this little UV light at Wal-Mart during their Halloween >>clearance for 85 cents. How can I determine its wave length? It is >>about as big as two quarters piled on eachother. (Switch, battery and UV LED.) >>Are there some common household items that would glow at certain wave >>lengths? >>James A. Rollins Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From tim at orerockon.com Thu Jan 6 14:51:28 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Jan 6 14:51:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] UV LEDs In-Reply-To: <1105048040.41ddb1e852446@my2.dal.ca> References: <00f101c4f433$20705a40$430611ac@Pteraphyte> <1105048040.41ddb1e852446@my2.dal.ca> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20050106143652.02ce9990@mail.spiritone.com> If you look at spectrographs of most near-LW UV LEDs, they generate no radiation at the shorter wavelengths than the rated, peak abruptly at the rated wavelength, and slowly tail off into the visible. All of them except the very expensive ones like the Roithner Lasertechnik I posted a link to earlier. I didn't see any that trailed off short of 409 or so nm. Someone else can tell you why lol. At 01:47 PM 1/6/2005, you wrote: >James, > >I might be completely wrong, but as far as I know, the only UV LEDs >commercially >available are long wave (on the border with visible, and they put out a fair >bit of visible too). I have two questions - is it definitely an LED (I don't >know what else it might be, especially at that size, but have to ask) and >is it >really UV? If if is UV then ideally you shouldn't see anything (LEDs have a >much narrower spectral range than other UV lights and should either produce >only UV, or as I said earlier, if they are on the edge of visible then they >will appear purplish). The easiest things to check are laundry soap, postage >stamps, and lint (everywhere!). > >Ronnie > >Quoting James A Rollins : > > > I bought this little UV light at Wal-Mart during their Halloween clearance > > for 85 cents. How can I determine its wave length? It is about as big as > > two quarters piled on eachother. (Switch, battery and UV LED.) > > Are there some common household items that would glow at certain wave > > lengths? > > James A. Rollins > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 6 15:35:47 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Thu Jan 6 15:35:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Little UV lights In-Reply-To: <010b01c4f438$bab693d0$430611ac@Pteraphyte> Message-ID: <20050106233547.40294.qmail@web51010.mail.yahoo.com> > Don't know what I will do with the flourescent > make-up though. How about labels for your fluorescent specimens? Jim Daly __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Thu Jan 6 15:40:24 2005 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Jan 6 15:40:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Little UV lights In-Reply-To: <20050106233547.40294.qmail@web51010.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200501062340.j06NeV4Z021214@bubbleator.drizzle.com> I've actually got a bunch of "glow in the dark" sheets. They work GREAT in a laser-jet printer, not worth a darn in an ink jet (the ink won't dry). I'm actually going to cut the sheets into 8.5 x 11 pieces and sell 'em so YOU can make labels too! GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Jim Daly > Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 5:36 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Little UV lights > > > > > Don't know what I will do with the flourescent make-up though. > How about labels for your fluorescent specimens? > Jim Daly > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection > around http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Jan 6 17:15:25 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Jan 6 17:12:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] UV LEDs References: <00f101c4f433$20705a40$430611ac@Pteraphyte> Message-ID: <41DDE200.1B93@Tomaszewski.net> James A Rollins wrote: > > I bought this little UV light at Wal-Mart during their Halloween clearance for 85 cents. How can I determine its wave length? It is about as big as two quarters piled on eachother. (Switch, battery and UV LED.) > Are there some common household items that would glow at certain wave lengths? > James A. Rollins They are about half way between violet and LW with a broad spectrum. From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Jan 6 18:39:58 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Jan 6 18:40:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Little UV lights References: <200501062340.j06NeV4Z021214@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <009001c4f462$2e9e11a0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> > I've actually got a bunch of "glow in the dark" sheets.<< Of course when I first read this, my mind immediately jumped to "bed" sheets, and got tickled at the mental image........ of ..... stuffing them into the inkjet printer. Jeanette Glow in the dark, eh? From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Thu Jan 6 19:02:29 2005 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Jan 6 19:02:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Little UV lights In-Reply-To: <009001c4f462$2e9e11a0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <200501070302.j0732gjg005072@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Oh, it makes for the MOST romantic evenings! GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Jeanette Wimpee > Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 8:40 PM > To: gbrown@catspaw-minerals.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A > mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Little UV lights > > > > I've actually got a bunch of "glow in the dark" sheets.<< > > Of course when I first read this, my mind immediately jumped to "bed" > sheets, and got tickled at the mental image........ > > > > of ..... > > > > stuffing them into the inkjet printer. > > > Jeanette > Glow in the dark, eh? > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From afox at drizzle.com Thu Jan 6 23:39:20 2005 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Thu Jan 6 23:39:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Spam From Undergroundbroker.com Message-ID: Has anyone else been getting a lot of mail from undergroundbroker.com? I've sent the asshole two letters asking him to stop, and he refuses. I'm going to contact his hosting company and his upstream provider and complain. If there's any other users having the same problem, contact me off-list so I can confirm to the hosting company that it's not just me. Thx. Aaron -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From libawc at emory.edu Fri Jan 7 04:39:12 2005 From: libawc at emory.edu (Anita Westlake) Date: Fri Jan 7 04:39:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Little UV lights In-Reply-To: <200501062340.j06NeV4Z021214@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <002101c4f4b5$e41e5eb0$bcbd8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> Oh! I thought you were talking about bed sheets. That would be interesting... Anita -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Gary Brown Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 6:40 PM To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Little UV lights I've actually got a bunch of "glow in the dark" sheets. They work GREAT in a laser-jet printer, not worth a darn in an ink jet (the ink won't dry). I'm actually going to cut the sheets into 8.5 x 11 pieces and sell 'em so YOU can make labels too! GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Jim Daly > Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 5:36 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Little UV lights > > > > > Don't know what I will do with the flourescent make-up though. > How about labels for your fluorescent specimens? > Jim Daly > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection > around http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Jan 7 05:52:27 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Jan 7 05:52:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: <00ae01c4f2b5$e9027030$1902a8c0@LOSJKUOLT2> Message-ID: Hi Jimmy, a photon is sent out every time an electron falls back to a state which has less energy than the previous state. Within atoms, these states are known thus emissions are "quantized". In a hot gas, atoms move fast and randomly. The emission-lines of gaseous atoms will broaden due to the Doppler effect bu I'm not sure how much. In a glowing metal wire the atoms get kicked violently enough to get separated from the atoms... either by the thermal colissions or by the raging stream of electrons of an electric current. When the "separated" electrons fall back to a "normal" state in the atoms, they do not sen out a fixed amount of energy but they rather shed whatever energy they may happen to have at the time. That is the reason for the continous spectrum: electrons coming from OUTSIDE the atoms produce the continoues spectrum... For an exact explanation: you'd have to talk to a scientist... I'm merely a layman with an interest for science. I think it's basically correct though. Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jimmy Kuo Verzonden: woensdag 5 januari 2005 0:34 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence >Mercury lamps generate a lot of lines and maybe, iirc, some > continuous emissions too. I presume that was meant to be emissions covering continuous frequencies. So, my question. Is that even theoretically possible? I mean, electron orbitals are of specific states. Any emission must conform to a difference between states. How can one get a continuous spectrum? Jimmy _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Jan 7 06:50:49 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Jan 7 06:51:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Little UV lights In-Reply-To: <002101c4f4b5$e41e5eb0$bcbd8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> Message-ID: And SAFE !!! Think of all those poor people poking eachother in the eye in complete darkness.... ROFL... On the other hand... glow in the dark sheets that glow green, RE-ROFL, would make a romantic night look like a documentary about reprocreation between Martians... (Pardon me, I just popped a vein from laughing... slowly regaining consciousness) Ahahahaxel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Anita Westlake Verzonden: vrijdag 7 januari 2005 13:39 Aan: gbrown@catspaw-minerals.com; 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Little UV lights Oh! I thought you were talking about bed sheets. That would be interesting... Anita -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Gary Brown Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 6:40 PM To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Little UV lights I've actually got a bunch of "glow in the dark" sheets. They work GREAT in a laser-jet printer, not worth a darn in an ink jet (the ink won't dry). I'm actually going to cut the sheets into 8.5 x 11 pieces and sell 'em so YOU can make labels too! GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Jim Daly > Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 5:36 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Little UV lights > > > > > Don't know what I will do with the flourescent make-up though. > How about labels for your fluorescent specimens? > Jim Daly > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection > around http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From DOMMELEN at DAL.CA Fri Jan 7 06:52:46 2005 From: DOMMELEN at DAL.CA (Ronnie Van Dommelen) Date: Fri Jan 7 06:52:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1105109565.41dea23e028f0@my2.dal.ca> Jimmy, In a prefectly still lone atom, things are probably pretty discrete. However in groups of atoms and electrons there is interaction. They move around (Doppler), bump into each other (collisions), and recombine at different times (lifetime). All of these contribute to the observed spectrum. In something like a mercury lamp, there are several broadening mechanisms at work. As Axel mentioned, Doppler is one. Others are lifetime broadening and collision broadening. I won't explain them here, you might find something on the web, or you might look in an introductory laser physics book. If you don't find anything in those places and really want to know, write me offline and I will try to give an explanation. The discrete energy levels are best seen in individual atoms (approximated by a gas, although even the pressure of the gas has an effect). As we move to solids, the atoms interact and exchange energy easily. In an LED the electron energy levels form bands rather than discrete levels, and thus the output spectrum is continuous, over a certain range. In semiconductor lasers, which are essentially LEDs with optical feedback, huge amounts of effort are spent trying to approach a 'discrete' energy output, or in other words a narrow or single wavelength output. Special structures like filters and quantum wells/lines/dots are used. Happy Collecting, Ronnie Van Dommelen Quoting Axel Emmermann : > Hi Jimmy, > > a photon is sent out every time an electron falls back to a state which has > less energy than the previous state. > Within atoms, these states are known thus emissions are "quantized". > In a hot gas, atoms move fast and randomly. The emission-lines of gaseous > atoms will broaden due to the Doppler effect bu I'm not sure how much. > In a glowing metal wire the atoms get kicked violently enough to get > separated from the atoms... either by the thermal colissions or by the > raging stream of electrons of an electric current. When the "separated" > electrons fall back to a "normal" state in the atoms, they do not sen out a > fixed amount of energy but they rather shed whatever energy they may happen > to have at the time. That is the reason for the continous spectrum: > electrons coming from OUTSIDE the atoms produce the continoues spectrum... > > For an exact explanation: you'd have to talk to a scientist... I'm merely a > layman with an interest for science. I think it's basically correct though. > > Cheers > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jimmy Kuo > Verzonden: woensdag 5 januari 2005 0:34 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rubies - fluorescence > > > >Mercury lamps generate a lot of lines and maybe, iirc, some > > continuous emissions too. > > I presume that was meant to be emissions covering continuous frequencies. > > So, my question. Is that even theoretically possible? I mean, electron > orbitals are of specific states. Any emission must conform to a difference > between states. How can one get a continuous spectrum? > > Jimmy > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From erongo at mweb.co.za Fri Jan 7 08:26:50 2005 From: erongo at mweb.co.za (Willie Steyn) Date: Fri Jan 7 08:26:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Tsumeb update References: Message-ID: <009201c4f4d5$b108c590$8e91fea9@Namibiaminerals> Hi I thought of bringing those of you who are interested an update on Tsumeb. The old De Wet shaft is still closed and we don`t think it will ever be opened again. The incline shaft at the back of De Wet headgear going down into the old mine has been pumped free of water and mined up to the 8 th level , first by Tsumeb specimen mining and for the last 2 years Ongopolo mining company. They are now pumping the water out till the 11 th level and are planning to go down to the 12 th at a later stage. The 12 is also where the incline shaft stops but it is believed that there is still a lot of workable high grade ore on the 12 th. After that they will again access the situation. Specimens on these old workings is very scares and far between and since the start of operations in 2001 only a handful of high end specimens were mined. Maybe it will be better on 11 and 12 levels. About 4 km to the west of Tsumeb a new mine was opened ,Tsumeb West, as it is called used to be and old copper surface mine in the early 1950`s. They are mining the same ore body from two different sides , the south and the north ends, both incline shafts. They are down to the 7 th level and at this stage the ore body is totally different from the old Tsumeb mine. The first couple of levels on the old Tsumeb was the first oxidation levels and at TW the oxidation levels is believed to start at the still to come 8 th level. I have seen several rock samples with telltale indications of minerals, azurite , dioptase , smithsonite and malachite but nothing of worth so far. It is believed that the recovery of specimens will be much better once they are into the oxidation area. It will never be like the Tsumeb of old as they are only working 3 shifts a day and the old Tsumeb had up to fifty shifts per day on the different levels. Another mining project is the old Tshudi mine a few km to the north of Tsumeb that was re-opened by Ongoplolo so far it is rather disappointing as the ore that is recovered is very low grade. Also no specimens of worth. I believe that in the near future we will see some specimens from Tsumeb West , but never again on the scale of the old Tsumeb and never again as abundant as then. Ongoplo is also investigating and we believe they will re-open Matchless mine near Windhoek. Willem Jnr South Africa / Namibia Namibiaminerals.com From jayhawkmn at yahoo.com Fri Jan 7 10:54:36 2005 From: jayhawkmn at yahoo.com (June Young) Date: Fri Jan 7 10:54:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Spam From Undergroundbroker.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050107185436.28144.qmail@web51004.mail.yahoo.com> no Aaron Fox wrote:Has anyone else been getting a lot of mail from undergroundbroker.com? I've sent the asshole two letters asking him to stop, and he refuses. I'm going to contact his hosting company and his upstream provider and complain. If there's any other users having the same problem, contact me off-list so I can confirm to the hosting company that it's not just me. Thx. Aaron -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Fri Jan 7 13:15:56 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Fri Jan 7 13:16:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent Zeolites And Associated Minerals From The Rat's Nest Mine, Challis, Idaho, Part 1 Message-ID: <41DEFC0C.4020201@tenforward.com> 1/7/2005 Fluorescent Zeolites And Associated Minerals From The Rat's Nest Mine, Challis, Idaho, Part 1 By John Cornish j&gcornish@tenforward.com Located in central Idaho near the small community of Challis, the Rat's Nest Mine has become a significant producer of world class heulandite- Ca and mordenite over the last several years. Specimens from this deposit are housed within many of the world's most prestigious museums and among the shelves of an ever growing assemblage of enthusiastic collectors. Utilizing mechanized and hand tool exploitation, specimens have been recovered in geode- like pockets weighing up to 65 pounds (29.5 kg). Among the associated minerals thus far recovered are stilbite, analcime, several generations of calcite, quartz, laumontite, and the ever ubiquitous heulandite- Na as pocket linings and micro sized crystals. To this a new mineral species can now be added, this the amorphous silicon oxide hydrate, opal. Opal has only recently been identified as occurring at the Rat's Nest Mine. This first discovery was made while cleaning specimens produced from last year's, 2004, mining operations. At a point mid stream in the process, ultraviolet short and long-wave illumination was directed towards dozens of laid out specimens. When this fluorescent light played across those crystals, overwhelming all else seemingly, opal's presence became immediately known. Prior to this, when consulting Robbins (1994), it was found that while rare, some zeolite minerals do have a history of fluorescence, included in this list were all of the species known to occur from the Rat's Nest Mine (though it should be clarified that the separation of the zeolite species heulandite- Ca and heulandite- Na by the I.M.A. had not occurred at the time of this references writing). With this my incentive, I darkened the room and turned on my ultraviolet lights. I have two I use, for long-wave ultraviolet illumination, I have a home made 8 watt Sylvania BLB (Black Light Blue), and for short-wave, I have a UV Systems 2000SW. Lanny Ream also assisted in this observation, generously sharing information gleaned from illuminating specimens from his personal collection using a dual wavelength Mineralight UVSL-55 from UV Products. Below are the fluorescent and phosphorescent observations made during this examination. The mineral descriptions presented in this paper have been arranged in regards to the specimens fluorescent desirability and is not intended to represent a crystallization sequence. OPAL.... Opal is one of the world's more commonly occurring fluorescing minerals and one of a large group of minerals displaying green fluorescence due to trace amounts of included uranium. Unobserved until this examination, where it occurs, opal covers mineral surfaces in solid and partial coatings which are, or are, nearly invisible to the unaided eye. Opal is included within the other minerals found here which share its same fluorescent coloration, though this color is often subdued and uneven as inclusionary depths vary within the host crystals. Other then calcite with its own unique fluorescence, the most common fluorescence seen in specimens examined thus far from the Rat's Nest Mine have resulted from opal. Short-wave ultraviolet illumination produces a neon bright characteristic uranium green color startlingly beautiful in specimens. Under long-wave ultraviolet, the effect is much more subdued and a tone more yellowish- green is produced. There is no phosphorescence associated with this mineral in those specimens thus far observed. HEULANDITE- Ca.... Heulandite- Ca from the Rat's Nest Mine is among the finest which has ever been found. Currently its producing equal is unknown within the borders of this country. Crystals have been recovered in sizes ranging exceptionally to 3 inches (7.5 cm), with color which can vary from near colorless to white to a variety of shades ranging from pink- to salmon- to orange- to red. When considering the size of the crystals, the recoverable pockets within which they occur, as well as the diversity of their color and associations, this locality's heulandite- Ca achieves the status and prestige due a classic in every sense. With the introduction of fluorescence, specimens from this deposit are truly unique in the mineral world. Several exceptional heulandite specimens in Lanny Ream's personal collection were found to fluoresce a wonderful cream color. Their fluorescence glowingly emanated outward from individual crystals or from groups and they are at their best and brightest under long-wave ultraviolet. Their response in short-wave is less intense and they did not display any phosphorescence. While subtle, under short-wave ultraviolet, heulandite- Ca in some specimens was found to display fluorescence varying from pink to a rich deep purplish- red color. There was no fluorescent response observed under long-wave ultraviolet or phosphorescence from either wavelength. Fluorescing specimens of heulandite- Ca were not able to be identified by color or size as examples with near colorless 1 inch (2.5 cm) crystals fluoresced as brilliantly as 3/8 inch (1 cm) orange crystals. Additionally, with short-wave ultraviolet, crystals of heulandite- Ca were found to fluoresce in a pattern which was becoming characteristic of specimens possessing associated uranium bearing opal; they blasted the senses in startlingly bright green explosions of color leaping the distance effortlessly between the specimen and one's eye! As an example, we have a wonderful specimen residing in our collection, the second largest heulandite- Ca and mordenite geode- like pocket we've collected thus far from the mine and weighing 44 pounds (20 kg). It is 16 inches (42 cm) long, 11 1/2 inches (30 cm) wide and 8 1/4 inches (20 cm) tall and exposes its crystal lined beauty from the end, where with its cap removed, its interior is wondrously exposed. A main crystal immediately towards which the eye is drawn is a perfect doubly terminated heulandite- Ca 2 inches (5.5 cm) in length of a soft, pleasing pink color. When the interior of this cavernous specimen is illuminated in short-wave ultraviolet, the effect of the opals fluorescence is breathtaking and this specimens appeal is truly defined, a perfection of nature's art unparalleled. Long-wave ultraviolet produces a less intense yellowish- green coloration and there is no phosphorescence under either wavelength. In rare instances, opal coats fluorescing heulandite- Ca crystals to create brilliant green specimens accentuated by a purplish- red under short-wave ultraviolet, to this, fluorescing calcite may also be added for effect. MORDENITE.... Some of the finest mordenite ever found from anywhere, is that which has come from the Rat's Nest Mine. Mordenite displaying fluorescence has only been observed in a very limited number of specimens. With short-wave ultraviolet illumination, mordenite in some specimens was found to fluoresce a rich deep purplish- red color. There was no fluorescent response observed under long-wave ultraviolet or phosphorescence from either wavelength. In one lone exceptional cabinet specimen under short-wave ultraviolet illumination, opal was found fluorescing mordenite a fantastically intense green over a 2 inch (5.5 cm) wide area atop a finger- like mound. With long-wave ultraviolet, a less intense yellowish- green color was observed, both wavelengths lacked a phosphorescent response. Associated with both species of heulandite, this specimen has been donated to The Rice Northwest Museum of Rocks and Minerals in Hillsboro, Oregon and is the finest opal coated uranium green fluorescing mordenite known from the Rat's Nest Mine. On another specimen, mordenite was included within a later sequenced golden to butterscotch colored calcite, together their fluorescence and phosphorescence matches that of the calcite and it is only mentioned because of its association. This specimen fluoresces an orangey- yellow with bright orange highlights under short-wave ultraviolet and phosphoresces the same colors with much less enthusiasm. Under long-wave, the color of fluorescence is more a brownish- yellow with a matching subdued phosphorescence. STILBITE.... Stilbite is another mineral from the Rat's Nest Mine known only from a few rare pockets. Exceptional crystals range in size up to just over an inch (3 cm), are off- white, opaque and have a decent pearly luster. Stilbite forms late in the crystallization sequence upon heulandite- Ca attractively. Of those few stilbite specimens thus far recovered, some specimens were found to share the same rich deep purplish- red fluorescence as does heulandite- Ca and mordenite under short-wave illumination. There was no fluorescent response observed under long-wave ultraviolet or phosphorescence from either wavelength. Additionally, opal partially coats some stilbite crystals producing a brilliant green accented by a deeper purple- red fluorescence under short-wave ultraviolet. The opal also fluoresces a yellowish- green under long-wave ultraviolet. Phosphorescence was not observed in these specimens. ANALCIME.... Analcime crystals from the Rat's Nest Mine are very rare and are known to have occurred in only a few pockets. However, the largest analcime crystals as yet reported from the State of Idaho are those which were recovered last year. As the wall was worked, a large pocket appeared crystallized with both species of heulandite, calcite of multiple generations, mordenite and analcime. The analcimes from this pocket ranged up to 1 1/8th inch (3 cm) in maximum dimension and when illuminated by short-wave ultraviolet, they were found to fluoresce a wonderful uneven bright green due to near invisible surface coatings and partial inclusion of uranium bearing opal. Brightly outlining the spaces between the analcime crystals, the opal penetrated these areas to give a wonderful 3-D effect to the crystals. With ultraviolet illumination, they are quite becoming and are much more attractive with fluorescence then without it, there they lie stripped bare, mottled white and nearly opaque. Long-wave ultraviolet produces a less intense yellowish- green coloration, there is no phosphorescence. CALCITE.... Calcite is present in many Rat's Nest Mine specimens and is represented by multiple growth episodes or generations. Most commonly observed are large pocket spanning pure white, platy, argentian calcite which reacts poorly to dilute hydrochloric acid and may actually be somewhat dolomitic in nature. No fluorescence of this material has been observed upon illumination with both short and long-wave ultraviolet. A commonly massive, though rarely euhedral transparent golden to opaque butterscotch colored calcite under short-wave illumination responds with an orangey- yellow color with bright orange highlights, with long-wave the reaction is dirtier and browner, unsuccessfully mimicking the reaction produced by short-wave ultraviolet. A quickly fading dull colored phosphorescence is also observed under both wavelengths. Producing the finest crystals, another generation of calcite is a soft yellow color with a matching fluorescence and phosphorescence under short-wave ultraviolet which is less enthusiastically represented under long-wave illumination. Next is a white, massive, bubbly appearing calcite which is often found partially buried within and amongst mordenite. It is also quite likely that this generation of calcite is somewhat dolomitic as when applied, dilute hydrochloric acid creates little reaction. This calcite does fluoresce and phosphoresce however, producing a light whitish- yellow reaction under both short and long-wave ultraviolet. Colorless calcite crystals fluorescing a bright cream to orangish color were observed by Lanny from specimens from his personal collection. They displayed similar intensity under both short and long-wave ultraviolet with a similarly colored minor phosphorescence. Specimens recovered from surface outcrops and at varying shallow depths near surface were often found to fluoresce a creamy yellow- white color under short- wave ultraviolet due to coatings of calcium carbonate "caliche". While most often a surface coating, caliche was additionally observed to completely penetrate felted masses of mordenite down to pocket linings of heulandite- Na. Under long-wave ultraviolet, caliche was found to fluoresce a more whitish- yellow color, phosphorescence was only observed under short-wave illumination. Caliche was unable to penetrate too deeply into the deposit and at depth is no longer observed. With Rat's Nest Mine fluorescent calcite's overlapping with other fluorescent minerals, multi- colored specimens are sure to continue being produced from this active property. QUARTZ.... Quartz from the Rat's Nest Mine has been recovered as both an opaque light blue colored agate and as euhedral crystals varying from colorlessly clear to slightly amethystine in color. While the crystals themselves have not been found to fluoresce or phosphoresce, the agates have. Reacting with a stronger, brighter response, short-wave ultraviolet produces a dull greenish- yellow color. In long-wave, the response is duller yet and more yellow, both wavelengths produce a subdued phosphorescent version of themselves. HEULANDITE- Na.... Heulandite-Na from the Rat's nest Mine while suspect, has not yet been observed displaying a fluorescent reaction to either short or long-wave ultraviolet. LAUMONTITE.... Laumontite is thankfully, a relatively rare mineral from the Rat's Nest Mine and while suspect, has not yet been observed displaying a fluorescent reaction to either short or long-wave ultraviolet. With the wide spread occurrence of fluorescence in Rat's Nest Mine specimens seen during this study, it can be safely assumed that many specimens offered prior to these observations display similar qualities which are likely unrealized by their current owners. It is hoped that this paper aids in alerting the collecting community to the fluorescent and phosphorescent phenomenon associated with this exceptional deposit. All the very best everyone, John Acknowledgments This paper benefited from conversations with, and observations by, Lanny Ream. Charley Ward and Don Newsome also offered insights and comments. Their contribution is thankfully acknowledged. Reference Robbins, M. Fluorescence: gems and minerals under ultraviolet light. United States: Geoscience Press, 1994 For further reading on the Rat's Nest Mine and its minerals see... Moore, T. Mineralogical Record Vol. 35, No. 2. What's New In Minerals Moore, T. Mineralogical Record Vol. 33, No. 1. What's New In Minerals Moore, T. Mineralogical Record Vol. 32, No. 3. What's New In Minerals Ream, L.R. Idaho Minerals: the complete reference and guide to the minerals of Idaho, 2nd edition. Idaho: Museum of North Idaho, 2004 Ream, L.R. Rocks & Minerals Vol. 76, No. 2 Collector's Note and the internet sites... http://www.lrream.com/challisheulandite.html (Introduction to the Rat's Nest Mine) http://www.lrream.com/heulanditediscov.html (Discovery of the Rat's Nest Mine) http://www.lrream.com/heulanditemining.html (Mining the Rat's Nest in 2003) http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Mineral%20Show%20Pix/September%20Denver%202004%20Show%20Pix%20Page.htm (Fall Denver 2004 Show Report) http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Mineral%20Show%20Pix/Tucson%202004%20Show%20Pix%20Page.htm (Tucson 2004 Show Report) http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Mineral%20Show%20Pix/Denver%202003%20Show%20Pix%20Page.htm (Fall Denver 2003 Show Report) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kadok at infowest.com Fri Jan 7 12:50:24 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Fri Jan 7 13:18:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Little UV lights In-Reply-To: <002101c4f4b5$e41e5eb0$bcbd8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> Message-ID: <20050107205023.004E5CB97FE@delivery.infowest.com> OBOY! Wouldn't it, though! Margaret Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Little UV lights Oh! I thought you were talking about bed sheets. That would be interesting... Anita -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Gary Brown Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 6:40 PM To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Little UV lights I've actually got a bunch of "glow in the dark" sheets. They work GREAT in a laser-jet printer, not worth a darn in an ink jet (the ink won't dry). I'm actually going to cut the sheets into 8.5 x 11 pieces and sell 'em so YOU can make labels too! GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Jim Daly > Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 5:36 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Little UV lights > > > > > Don't know what I will do with the flourescent make-up though. > How about labels for your fluorescent specimens? > Jim Daly > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection > around http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From bg at his.com Fri Jan 7 13:32:12 2005 From: bg at his.com (Catherine Gaber) Date: Fri Jan 7 13:33:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent Zeolites And Associated Minerals From The Rat's Nest Mine, Challis, Idaho, Part 1 In-Reply-To: <41DEFC0C.4020201@tenforward.com> References: <41DEFC0C.4020201@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <97B32D3E-60F3-11D9-97C0-000A95A8FEB6@his.com> dear john, can you be more specific as to the kind of opal? is it hyalite? cathy On Jan 7, 2005, at 4:15 PM, John and Gloria Cornish wrote: > 1/7/2005 > > Fluorescent Zeolites And Associated Minerals From The Rat's Nest Mine, > Challis, Idaho, Part 1 > > By John Cornish > j&gcornish@tenforward.com > > > > > Located in central Idaho near the small community of Challis, the > Rat's Nest Mine has become a significant producer of world class > heulandite- Ca and mordenite over the last several years. Specimens > from this deposit are housed within many of the world's most > prestigious museums and among the shelves of an ever growing > assemblage of enthusiastic collectors. Utilizing mechanized and hand > tool exploitation, specimens have been recovered in geode- like > pockets weighing up to 65 pounds (29.5 kg). Among the associated > minerals thus far recovered are stilbite, analcime, several > generations of calcite, quartz, laumontite, and the ever ubiquitous > heulandite- Na as pocket linings and micro sized crystals. To this a > new mineral species can now be added, this the amorphous silicon oxide > hydrate, opal. > > Opal has only recently been identified as occurring at the Rat's Nest > Mine. This first discovery was made while cleaning specimens produced > from last year's, 2004, mining operations. At a point mid stream in > the process, ultraviolet short and long-wave illumination was directed > towards dozens of laid out specimens. When this fluorescent light > played across those crystals, overwhelming all else seemingly, opal's > presence became immediately known. Prior to this, when consulting > Robbins (1994), it was found that while rare, some zeolite minerals do > have a history of fluorescence, included in this list were all of the > species known to occur from the Rat's Nest Mine (though it should be > clarified that the separation of the zeolite species heulandite- Ca > and heulandite- Na by the I.M.A. had not occurred at the time of this > references writing). With this my incentive, I darkened the room and > turned on my ultraviolet lights. I have two I use, for long-wave > ultraviolet illumination, I have a home made 8 watt Sylvania BLB > (Black Light Blue), and for short-wave, I have a UV Systems 2000SW. > Lanny Ream also assisted in this observation, generously sharing > information gleaned from illuminating specimens from his personal > collection using a dual wavelength Mineralight UVSL-55 from UV > Products. > > Below are the fluorescent and phosphorescent observations made during > this examination. The mineral descriptions presented in this paper > have been arranged in regards to the specimens fluorescent > desirability and is not intended to represent a crystallization > sequence. > > > OPAL.... Opal is one of the world's more commonly occurring > fluorescing minerals and one of a large group of minerals displaying > green fluorescence due to trace amounts of included uranium. > Unobserved until this examination, where it occurs, opal covers > mineral surfaces in solid and partial coatings which are, or are, > nearly invisible to the unaided eye. Opal is included within the other > minerals found here which share its same fluorescent coloration, > though this color is often subdued and uneven as inclusionary depths > vary within the host crystals. Other then calcite with its own unique > fluorescence, the most common fluorescence seen in specimens examined > thus far from the Rat's Nest Mine have resulted from opal. Short-wave > ultraviolet illumination produces a neon bright characteristic uranium > green color startlingly beautiful in specimens. Under long-wave > ultraviolet, the effect is much more subdued and a tone more > yellowish- green is produced. There is no phosphorescence associated > with this mineral in those specimens thus far observed. From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Fri Jan 7 13:54:02 2005 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Fri Jan 7 13:54:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A reminder on Responding... In-Reply-To: <97B32D3E-60F3-11D9-97C0-000A95A8FEB6@his.com> Message-ID: <200501072154.j07LsHW2003734@bubbleator.drizzle.com> When you respond to a note, ESPECIALLY a nice juicy one like John's, you don't need to send on the rest of the note. I use something like: Blah blah blah To indicate where I "snipped" out chunks of the original note. Now, back to your originally scheduled program! GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Catherine Gaber > Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 3:32 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent Zeolites And Associated > Minerals FromThe Rat's Nest Mine, Challis, Idaho, Part 1 > > dear john, > > can you be more specific as to the kind of opal? is it hyalite? > > cathy > > On Jan 7, 2005, at 4:15 PM, John and Gloria Cornish wrote: > > > 1/7/2005 > > > > Fluorescent Zeolites And Associated Minerals From The Rat's > Nest Mine, > > Challis, Idaho, Part 1 > > > > By John Cornish > > j&gcornish@tenforward.com > > > > > > > > > > Located in central Idaho near the small community of Challis, th.... From bg at his.com Fri Jan 7 14:08:11 2005 From: bg at his.com (Catherine Gaber) Date: Fri Jan 7 14:08:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A reminder on Responding... In-Reply-To: <200501072154.j07LsHW2003734@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200501072154.j07LsHW2003734@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <9EC16326-60F8-11D9-97C0-000A95A8FEB6@his.com> i did snip off most of the message. On Jan 7, 2005, at 4:54 PM, Gary Brown wrote: > When you respond to a note, ESPECIALLY a nice juicy one like John's, > you > don't need to send on the rest of the note. I use something like: > > > Blah blah blah > > > To indicate where I "snipped" out chunks of the original note. > > Now, back to your originally scheduled program! > > GcB > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of >> Catherine Gaber >> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 3:32 PM >> To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent Zeolites And Associated >> Minerals FromThe Rat's Nest Mine, Challis, Idaho, Part 1 >> >> dear john, >> >> can you be more specific as to the kind of opal? is it hyalite? >> >> cathy >> >> On Jan 7, 2005, at 4:15 PM, John and Gloria Cornish wrote: >> >>> 1/7/2005 >>> >>> Fluorescent Zeolites And Associated Minerals From The Rat's >> Nest Mine, >>> Challis, Idaho, Part 1 >>> >>> By John Cornish >>> j&gcornish@tenforward.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Located in central Idaho near the small community of Challis, th.... > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From jackgraham at gbronline.com Fri Jan 7 16:05:48 2005 From: jackgraham at gbronline.com (jackgraham) Date: Fri Jan 7 16:07:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Field Collecting Journals Message-ID: <41df23dc.177.870.26078@gbronline.com> John, I too have been keeping a Field Collecting Journal for the last 9 months. That is when I began collecting again after a twenty some year hiatus. I collected rocks when I was a young kid, age nine to fifteen or so ? but I was the only person I knew who did so when girls and cars became important, working to make money, and spending it on the two afore mentioned subjects seemed to take over my life for a while. Then my kids, followed by college, and finely seeking a job which would actually pay off my student loans (still seeking that one) Two weddings and a divorce were also in there some where. So you can see I really got distracted from collecting for a while. Then my step daughter got me started again. Having learned the art of journal writing while in college, I began to keep one dedicated to rockhounding. My first entry also explained my reasons for starting and keeping the Journal, some of which included the idea of prospecting for new material sites. I also included some of the highlights from past including the story told to me by my great uncle on how to become a rockhound. For me, my journals are sources for reference, to explain my thoughts and experiences. My hope is that one day my journals will be both educational and informative to my children and one day, grand children, as they are to me. And with the recent addition of a digital camera into our households list of toys, I am sure that they will become an iatrical part of my journals. Keep writing, Jack From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Fri Jan 7 17:40:48 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Fri Jan 7 17:31:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent Zeolites, Rat's Nest Mine References: <41DEFC0C.4020201@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <001901c4f523$15fd5180$fea4490c@pete> Hi John, I enjoyed reading about your fluorescent zeolites. While I'm generally aware of what you've found up there and have seen specimens at some shows, I'm not real up on all the details. Here at North Table Mountain, Golden, CO, some of the zeolite minerals are variably fluorescent, mostly because of very thin coatings of (hyalite) opal that occur locally on the minerals, and fluoresce bright green. I don't know if any of us have ever carefully examined the fluorescence of the rest of the zeolites here, other than due to the green-fl. opal coating. But, what do you mean by "is suspect", in referring to heulandite-Na and laumontite at the Rat's Nest? I know you're not accusing them of any crime (high-grading???)... do you mean, suspected of being fluorescent, or suspected of occurring there, or suspected of NOT real occurring there, or do you just mean that their occurrence is simply, questionable? Just wondering, Pete From geenet2 at mchsi.com Fri Jan 7 19:50:51 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Fri Jan 7 19:52:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Using Opticon Message-ID: <007e01c4f535$3f519700$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Has anyone ever used Opticon to seal a crack in a rock and had it turn blue?? The crack, not the whole rock, that is... I'm wondering if it reacted to something in the rock, I know I mixed it according to directions. The piece was one of my pieces of Peruvian Opal. Now it has a lovely blue line across it, and it looks like the color is diffusing away from the crack into the opal material itself. Maybe that's one type of rock you shouldn't use Opticon on. Jeanette --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny at lrream.com Fri Jan 7 22:23:01 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Fri Jan 7 22:21:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent Zeolites, Rat's Nest Mine In-Reply-To: <001901c4f523$15fd5180$fea4490c@pete> References: <41DEFC0C.4020201@tenforward.com> <001901c4f523$15fd5180$fea4490c@pete> Message-ID: How about that John? I'd like to know about the "is suspect" heulandite-Na too. Lanny On Jan 7, 2005, at 5:40 PM, Peter J. Modreski wrote: > Hi John, > > ...... > > But, what do you mean by "is suspect", in referring to heulandite-Na > and > laumontite at the Rat's Nest? I know you're not accusing them of any > crime > (high-grading???)... do you mean, suspected of being fluorescent, or > suspected of occurring there, or suspected of NOT real occurring > there, or > do you just mean that their occurrence is simply, questionable? Just > wondering, > > Pete > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sat Jan 8 07:22:23 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sat Jan 8 07:13:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquake & Tsunami information resources Message-ID: <001201c4f595$dbca0a80$56a3490c@pete> Dear Rockhounds, I thought you'd like to see the summary of web resources available, that I put together to share with educators to whom I send emails. Some of these have been mentioned on our site before, but I thought you would like to see this whole list. Pete Modreski (USGS), Denver CO Sumatra Earthquake and Tsunami - Obviously a great deal has appeared in the news media about this tragic event, and most of you have probably received numerous emails giving links to information resources about it through different science education listservers. I'll just list here what I think are several particularly good sources of information, some of which may be new to you. The USGS Website has, in addition to maps and data on the earthquake and aftershocks, an excellent set of "FAQ"s about the earthquake and tsunami--including such things as comments on the effect on the earth's rotation and the estimated amount of seabed movement caused by the quake. See the several links on our homepage, http://www.usgs.gov or go directly to http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqinthenews/2004/usslav/ Some other good sites about the earthquake, tsunami, and plate movements: NOAA website: http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/spotlight/tsunami/tsunami.html "How Tsunamis Work": http://science.howstuffworks.com/tsunami.htm IRIS (Incorporated Research Institutions for Seismology): a chart showing seismic waves from the Sumatra earthquake as they arrived at seismograph stations all around the world: http://www.iris.edu/about/ENO/iow.htm also, the IRIS "Seismographs in Schools" program is described at: http://www.iris.edu/edu/AS1.htm and at the page below you can view a composite of 11 school seismograms showing the Sumatra earthquake: http://jclahr.com/science/psn/as1/indonesia04/as1indo.html Tsunami visualizations (Carleton College): http://serc.carleton.edu/NAGTWorkshops/visualization/collections/tsunami.html Asia's Deadly Waves (NY Times): http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/html/international/20041227_QUAKE_FEATURE/index.html Geology.about.com: Tsunamis: http://geology.about.com/od/tsunamis/ Schoolgirl saved family: http://geography.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/050102/w010210.html A final note relating to plate tectonics, this web page of UNAVCO contains a map showing vectors (direction and magnitude) of plate motions on earth as actually determined from GPS measurements: http://sps.unavco.org/crustal_motion/dxdt/intro/ It's part of the EarthScope project, "a National Science Project to Investigate North America" (earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, etc.). See the UNAVCO homepage at http://www.unavco.org/ , including their "Education & Outreach" links. ****************************************** Peter J. Modreski U.S. Geological Survey, Denver, Colorado Central Region Office of Communications Events and Community Relations - Geologic Outreach & Education USGS, MS 150 Box 25046, Federal Center Denver, CO 80225-0046 tel. 303-202-4766, fax 303-202-4767 email pmodreski@usgs.gov SCIENCE FOR A CHANGING WORLD http://www.usgs.gov http://ask.usgs.gov ****************************************** --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Sat Jan 8 10:35:51 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Sat Jan 8 10:35:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent Zeolites, Rat's Nest Mine In-Reply-To: References: <41DEFC0C.4020201@tenforward.com> <001901c4f523$15fd5180$fea4490c@pete> Message-ID: <41E02807.9010509@tenforward.com> Hi Peter, Lanny and Everyone, Thank you for your comments. I've cleaned up the Heulandite- Na and Laumontite descriptions of their misleading verbiage.... HEULANDITE- Na.... Heulandite-Na from the Rat's Nest Mine has not yet been observed displaying a fluorescent reaction to either short or long-wave ultraviolet. LAUMONTITE.... Laumontite is thankfully, a relatively rare mineral from the Rat's Nest Mine has not yet been observed displaying a fluorescent reaction to either short or long-wave ultraviolet. All the very best, John Lanny wrote: > How about that John? I'd like to know about the "is suspect" > heulandite-Na too. > > Lanny > > On Jan 7, 2005, at 5:40 PM, Peter J. Modreski wrote: > >> Hi John, >> >> ...... >> >> But, what do you mean by "is suspect", in referring to heulandite-Na and >> laumontite at the Rat's Nest? I know you're not accusing them of any >> crime >> (high-grading???)... do you mean, suspected of being fluorescent, or >> suspected of occurring there, or suspected of NOT real occurring >> there, or >> do you just mean that their occurrence is simply, questionable? Just >> wondering, >> >> Pete >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Sat Jan 8 10:38:53 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Sat Jan 8 10:39:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Tsumeb update In-Reply-To: <009201c4f4d5$b108c590$8e91fea9@Namibiaminerals> References: <009201c4f4d5$b108c590$8e91fea9@Namibiaminerals> Message-ID: <41E028BD.7050301@tenforward.com> Hi Willie, Thank you very much for taking the time to offer this posting. I enjoyed learning of the new activities at Tsumeb and thereabouts. Another was just asking on Mindat if any had heard of any updates, and by golly, here it is. Thank you again, all the very best, John Willie Steyn wrote: > Hi > I thought of bringing those of you who are interested an update on > Tsumeb. > The old De Wet shaft is still closed and we don`t think it will ever > be opened again. The incline shaft at the back of De Wet headgear > going down into the old mine has been pumped free of water and mined > up to the 8 th level , first by Tsumeb specimen mining and for the > last 2 years Ongopolo mining company. They are now pumping the water > out till the 11 th level and are planning to go down to the 12 th at a > later stage. The 12 is also where the incline shaft stops but it is > believed that there is still a lot of workable high grade ore on the > 12 th. After that they will again access the situation. Specimens on > these old workings is very scares and far between and since the start > of operations in 2001 only a handful of high end specimens were mined. > Maybe it will be better on 11 and 12 levels. > > About 4 km to the west of Tsumeb a new mine was opened ,Tsumeb West, > as it is called used to be and old copper surface mine in the early > 1950`s. They are mining the same ore body from two different sides , > the south and the north ends, both incline shafts. They are down to > the 7 th level and at this stage the ore body is totally different > from the old Tsumeb mine. The first couple of levels on the old Tsumeb > was the first oxidation levels and at TW the oxidation levels is > believed to start at the still to come 8 th level. > I have seen several rock samples with telltale indications of > minerals, azurite , dioptase , smithsonite and malachite but nothing > of worth so far. It is believed that the recovery of specimens will be > much better once they are into the oxidation area. > It will never be like the Tsumeb of old as they are only working 3 > shifts a day and the old Tsumeb had up to fifty shifts per day on the > different levels. > Another mining project is the old Tshudi mine a few km to the north of > Tsumeb that was re-opened by Ongoplolo so far it is rather > disappointing as the ore that is recovered is very low grade. Also no > specimens of worth. > I believe that in the near future we will see some specimens from > Tsumeb West , but never again on the scale of the old Tsumeb and never > again as abundant as then. Ongoplo is also investigating and we > believe they will re-open Matchless mine near Windhoek. > Willem Jnr > South Africa / Namibia > Namibiaminerals.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sat Jan 8 13:51:56 2005 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sat Jan 8 13:52:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] songs In-Reply-To: <41E028BD.7050301@tenforward.com> References: <009201c4f4d5$b108c590$8e91fea9@Namibiaminerals> <41E028BD.7050301@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <41E055FC.6010305@xs4all.nl> Hi list, I had the idea to compile me a CD with songs related to mining, miners, pits etc. I know there must be tonnes of old songs about this subject, but sofar I did not manage to successfully google-up some of old songs. Does anyone know where to find such songs (for free of course ;-) ) cheers, Maurice From johnjold at comcast.net Sat Jan 8 13:54:19 2005 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Sat Jan 8 13:55:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquake & Tsunami information resources In-Reply-To: <001201c4f595$dbca0a80$56a3490c@pete> References: <001201c4f595$dbca0a80$56a3490c@pete> Message-ID: This will take you to 14 before and after overhead views of beach areas in the tsunami zone. You can see just how much the plate jumped up in 1 and 2, the newspapers say 15 feet. 12 and 13 show how crop land was ruined as well as buildings http://homepage.mac.com/demark/tsunami/9.html From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sat Jan 8 14:12:30 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sat Jan 8 14:03:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent Zeolites, Rat's Nest Mine References: <41DEFC0C.4020201@tenforward.com> <001901c4f523$15fd5180$fea4490c@pete> <41E02807.9010509@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <000d01c4f5cf$27008f40$f7a4490c@pete> Thanks, John for clarifying this about the minerals. Thinking more about it, do you mind if I ask a few more questions? I should remember (but don't), where an article(s) about the Rat's Nest, etc., claims near Challis had appeared in the last year or two... was it in Mineral News (I'm sure there were one or more articles there), or... I'd like to go back and look at what's been written, so would appreciate it if you'd let us know. Now I'll ask you to clarify your clarifications. I'm curious, has someone doing microprobe analysis of the heulandite, confirmed that a small amount of it is Na-rich, hence is heulandite-Na? I assume that's the case. I'd like to know what info you have about this. And as to the laumontite; so, why do you say, "Laumontite is thankfully, a relatively rare mineral from the Rat's Nest Mine..." So, why are we (I mean you) thankful that it's rare there? Is it ugly? Messy? You just like to keep things simple? Or you plain just don't like laumontite? (What did it ever do to you??) (Hope you don't mind me asking these, a little bit tongue-in-cheek.) Last question, and I'm sure I've read this and perhaps I've even asked Lanny about it in the past, but again out of curiousity, whereabouts (more or less--don't worry, I'm not going highgrading, I don't need to know the exact location if it's a semi-secret) around Challis, is the Rat's Nest Claim? Back in the early 1980s, I was part of a USGS team who did geologic mapping in that area--the Challis 1x2-degree quadrangle. I worked in the area west of the Salmon River between Challis and Salmon, though most of my own work was in the Precambrian rocks closer up toward Salmon. I did see a few zeolite occurrences in the Challis Volcanics here & there, but never of course anything spectacular such as what you've been finding. Most all of my familiarity is in the area NW of Challis--north of and west of the Salmon River. So, that's why I'm curious, what general part of the country around there, is your claim located in? (is it north, south, east, or west of Challis?) (As I've said, without publicizing any information more specific than what you want publicized.) That's all-thanks for the answers, Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "John and Gloria Cornish" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 11:35 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent Zeolites, Rat's Nest Mine > Hi Peter, Lanny and Everyone, > > Thank you for your comments. I've cleaned up the Heulandite- Na and > Laumontite descriptions of their misleading verbiage.... > > HEULANDITE- Na.... Heulandite-Na from the Rat's Nest Mine has not yet > been observed displaying a fluorescent reaction to either short or > long-wave ultraviolet. > > LAUMONTITE.... Laumontite is thankfully, a relatively rare mineral from > the Rat's Nest Mine has not yet been observed displaying a fluorescent > reaction to either short or long-wave ultraviolet. > > From tam2819 at cox.net Sat Jan 8 15:18:24 2005 From: tam2819 at cox.net (T.A.Masters) Date: Sat Jan 8 15:18:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquake & Tsunami information resources References: <001201c4f595$dbca0a80$56a3490c@pete> Message-ID: <41E06A40.8010907@cox.net> John Thank you for this URL. It is the most incredible set of photos I have yet seen. Much appreciated, Terrie From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Jan 8 15:40:19 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Jan 8 15:37:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] songs References: <009201c4f4d5$b108c590$8e91fea9@Namibiaminerals> <41E028BD.7050301@tenforward.com> <41E055FC.6010305@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <41E06EB2.6339@Tomaszewski.net> Maurice de Graaf wrote: > > Hi list, > > I had the idea to compile me a CD with songs related to mining, miners, > pits etc. I know there must be tonnes of old songs about this subject, > but sofar I did not manage to successfully google-up some of old songs. > Does anyone know where to find such songs (for free of course ;-) ) > > cheers, > Maurice John Henry Was A Steel Driving Man Poor Miner's Farewell The Men Of The Deeps A Portrait of A Miner (A collection of Traditional and Obscure Mining Songs) by Richard Ormsby (Tramp Miner Productions). Do a search for 'mining songs' and work your way thru the nearly 3/4 million hits that Google returns for more examples. There is a lot of old folk music in this category. From dmschmidt at sprint.ca Sat Jan 8 16:04:56 2005 From: dmschmidt at sprint.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Sat Jan 8 16:04:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] songs References: <009201c4f4d5$b108c590$8e91fea9@Namibiaminerals> <41E028BD.7050301@tenforward.com> <41E055FC.6010305@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <3af601c4f5de$dc2f9ff0$6402a8c0@remains> there was a local band here that did a song called: don't take me for granite, I'm gneiss :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice de Graaf" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 2:51 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] songs > Hi list, > > I had the idea to compile me a CD with songs related to mining, miners, > pits etc. I know there must be tonnes of old songs about this subject, but > sofar I did not manage to successfully google-up some of old songs. Does > anyone know where to find such songs (for free of course ;-) ) > > cheers, > Maurice > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tim at orerockon.com Sat Jan 8 16:43:57 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sat Jan 8 16:43:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquake & Tsunami information resources In-Reply-To: References: <001201c4f595$dbca0a80$56a3490c@pete> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20050108164324.02ddfd18@mail.spiritone.com> The labels on some of those satellite photos are absolutely misleading. The "after" pictures are in fact also before the tsunami. As in, minutes before, as the ocean receded. They are NOT the configuration of the coastline AFTER the tsunami. I am referring to numbers 1 through 4. Numbers 5 through ? show what would be expected of a tsunami - a lot less land/structures. None of them show any "uplift". At 01:54 PM 1/8/2005, John Joldersma wrote: > This will take you to 14 before and after overhead views of beach areas > in the tsunami zone. >You can see just how much the plate jumped up in 1 and 2, the newspapers >say 15 feet. >12 and 13 show how crop land was ruined as well as buildings > >http://homepage.mac.com/demark/tsunami/9.html Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From lanny at lrream.com Sat Jan 8 17:05:38 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sat Jan 8 17:03:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquake & Tsunami information resources In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20050108164324.02ddfd18@mail.spiritone.com> References: <001201c4f595$dbca0a80$56a3490c@pete> <6.2.0.14.2.20050108164324.02ddfd18@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <936652FA-61DA-11D9-944A-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> A little clarification on all this would be nice. I'd seen the air photos on the news before showing the large areas that are now under water. I took the first two photos as showing the shoreline now in the after image as further out from what was the shoreline in the before image. Which would indicate that the land had gone up several feet. The land was not flooded there. #3 shows about the same thing, but apparently didn't rise as much and the shoreline moved out some and there was minor flooding (now drained) Many of the rest of them show the land now underwater, which would indicate that part of the area sank. These photos indicate that Kalatura Beach was raised, Banda Aceh was lowered. Lanny On Jan 8, 2005, at 4:43 PM, Tim Fisher wrote: > The labels on some of those satellite photos are absolutely > misleading. The "after" pictures are in fact also before the tsunami. > As in, minutes before, as the ocean receded. They are NOT the > configuration of the coastline AFTER the tsunami. I am referring to > numbers 1 through 4. Numbers 5 through ? show what would be expected > of a tsunami - a lot less land/structures. None of them show any > "uplift". > > At 01:54 PM 1/8/2005, John Joldersma wrote: > >> This will take you to 14 before and after overhead views of beach >> areas in the tsunami zone. >> You can see just how much the plate jumped up in 1 and 2, the >> newspapers say 15 feet. >> 12 and 13 show how crop land was ruined as well as buildings >> >> http://homepage.mac.com/demark/tsunami/9.html > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sat Jan 8 17:22:46 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sat Jan 8 17:13:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquake & Tsunami information resources References: <001201c4f595$dbca0a80$56a3490c@pete> <6.2.0.14.2.20050108164324.02ddfd18@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <002701c4f5e9$bac6eac0$f7a4490c@pete> I'm sure Tim is right here; the first couple satellite pictures must have been taken just as the first component of the wave arrived at Sri Lanka, and it must have been a recession of the water that was photographed, before the positive crest arrived. Aside from that none of the land appears to have been flooded yet, this is labelled as from Sri Lanka--far from the site of the quake, so there shouldn't have been any uplift or downdrop of the land here (and Sri Lanka is on the Indian plate; it would have moved down, if anything). Photo pair #4 is something--showing all that swirling and oscillation in the water; it must have been taken just as the primary wave was receding. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Earthquake & Tsunami information resources > The labels on some of those satellite photos are absolutely misleading. The > "after" pictures are in fact also before the tsunami. As in, minutes > before, as the ocean receded. They are NOT the configuration of the > coastline AFTER the tsunami. I am referring to numbers 1 through 4. Numbers > 5 through ? show what would be expected of a tsunami - a lot less > land/structures. None of them show any "uplift". > > At 01:54 PM 1/8/2005, John Joldersma wrote: > > > This will take you to 14 before and after overhead views of beach areas > > in the tsunami zone. > >You can see just how much the plate jumped up in 1 and 2, the newspapers > >say 15 feet. > >12 and 13 show how crop land was ruined as well as buildings > > > >http://homepage.mac.com/demark/tsunami/9.html > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Sat Jan 8 20:33:32 2005 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn's Mail) Date: Sat Jan 8 20:33:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] songs References: <009201c4f4d5$b108c590$8e91fea9@Namibiaminerals><41E028BD.7050301@tenforward.com> <41E055FC.6010305@xs4all.nl> <41E06EB2.6339@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <011301c4f604$5ffced90$6601a8c0@GlennWimpee> "16 Tons" by Tennessee Ernie Ford Glenn > > John Henry Was A Steel Driving Man > > Poor Miner's Farewell > > The Men Of The Deeps > > A Portrait of A Miner (A collection of Traditional and Obscure Mining > Songs) by Richard Ormsby (Tramp Miner Productions). > > From lanny at lrream.com Sat Jan 8 22:46:18 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sat Jan 8 22:44:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquake & Tsunami information resources In-Reply-To: <002701c4f5e9$bac6eac0$f7a4490c@pete> References: <001201c4f595$dbca0a80$56a3490c@pete> <6.2.0.14.2.20050108164324.02ddfd18@mail.spiritone.com> <002701c4f5e9$bac6eac0$f7a4490c@pete> Message-ID: <2A23679E-620A-11D9-944A-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Rat's, I should have noticed the country. Pete, do any of those web sites you gave in the message earlier today provide information on how much movement, where, etc. Shouldn't Banda Aceh be on the plate that was thrown up? Where does the fault cut through there? I haven't had time to search those pages. Lanny On Jan 8, 2005, at 5:22 PM, Peter J. Modreski wrote: > I'm sure Tim is right here; the first couple satellite pictures must > have > been taken just as the first component of the wave arrived at Sri > Lanka, and > it must have been a recession of the water that was photographed, > before the > positive crest arrived. Aside from that none of the land appears to > have > been flooded yet, this is labelled as from Sri Lanka--far from the > site of > the quake, so there shouldn't have been any uplift or downdrop of the > land > here (and Sri Lanka is on the Indian plate; it would have moved down, > if > anything). > > Photo pair #4 is something--showing all that swirling and oscillation > in the > water; it must have been taken just as the primary wave was receding. > > Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Fisher" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > > Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 5:43 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Earthquake & Tsunami information resources > > >> The labels on some of those satellite photos are absolutely >> misleading. > The >> "after" pictures are in fact also before the tsunami. As in, minutes >> before, as the ocean receded. They are NOT the configuration of the >> coastline AFTER the tsunami. I am referring to numbers 1 through 4. > Numbers >> 5 through ? show what would be expected of a tsunami - a lot less >> land/structures. None of them show any "uplift". >> >> At 01:54 PM 1/8/2005, John Joldersma wrote: >> >>> This will take you to 14 before and after overhead views of beach > areas >>> in the tsunami zone. >>> You can see just how much the plate jumped up in 1 and 2, the >>> newspapers >>> say 15 feet. >>> 12 and 13 show how crop land was ruined as well as buildings >>> >>> http://homepage.mac.com/demark/tsunami/9.html >> >> Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com >> Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From kahako at aloha.net Sat Jan 8 23:42:48 2005 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Jan 8 23:12:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] songs In-Reply-To: <41E055FC.6010305@xs4all.nl> References: <009201c4f4d5$b108c590$8e91fea9@Namibiaminerals> <41E028BD.7050301@tenforward.com> <41E055FC.6010305@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.0.20050108213800.043aeab0@mail.aloha.net> I can't remember the name of the song or singer; maybe not even have the words quite right on this country song, but... "He got the gold mine, I got the shaft." Aloha, Kitty At 11:51 AM 1/8/2005, you wrote: >Hi list, > >I had the idea to compile me a CD with songs related to mining, miners, >pits etc. I know there must be tonnes of old songs about this subject, but >sofar I did not manage to successfully google-up some of old songs. Does >anyone know where to find such songs (for free of course ;-) ) > >cheers, >Maurice >_______________________________________________ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 1/6/2005 From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Jan 9 07:57:36 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Jan 9 09:06:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] songs In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.0.20050108213800.043aeab0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: Ah, Maurice... "You haul sixteen tons (of songs of the Net) and what d'you get? " A virus, two trojans and enough worms to go fishing. "Working in the coal mine" is a nice one too! There's no such hing as legal free music ;-))) Downloading actual hit music has become rather dangerous lately since the music industry has developed ways to track the whereabouts of "tagged" MP3's (or so they claim). The very old stuff that no longer exists on commercially available records may still be found using peer-to-peer networking. One could try BearShare www.bearshare.com/nl (remember to turn off the "sharing" opion! It's illegal to spread music over the internet. Downloading is not. At least in Belgium and Holland it isn't...) Should you embark on a quest to find these songs, be sure to have a VERY GOOD firewall and anti virus software in place and update you virus definitions daily. It's a mine field out there ;-))) Also: some ISP 's actually forbid PTP networking because it uses up massive porions of bandwidth. Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kitty & Bill Heacox Verzonden: zondag 9 januari 2005 8:43 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] songs I can't remember the name of the song or singer; maybe not even have the words quite right on this country song, but... "He got the gold mine, I got the shaft." Aloha, Kitty At 11:51 AM 1/8/2005, you wrote: >Hi list, > >I had the idea to compile me a CD with songs related to mining, miners, >pits etc. I know there must be tonnes of old songs about this subject, but >sofar I did not manage to successfully google-up some of old songs. Does >anyone know where to find such songs (for free of course ;-) ) > >cheers, >Maurice >_______________________________________________ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 1/6/2005 _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Sun Jan 9 10:39:45 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Sun Jan 9 11:38:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent Zeolites, Rat's Nest Mine In-Reply-To: <000d01c4f5cf$27008f40$f7a4490c@pete> References: <41DEFC0C.4020201@tenforward.com> <001901c4f523$15fd5180$fea4490c@pete> <41E02807.9010509@tenforward.com> <000d01c4f5cf$27008f40$f7a4490c@pete> Message-ID: <41E17A71.3070208@tenforward.com> Hi Pete and Everyone, There was an entire list of links and article information at the end of the Rat's Nest post. I'll present it again following this letter. Other then papers I've sent to the net (The Glamour of Mining; Challis, Idaho. 5/22/2003 and Buried Alive; Challis, Idaho 6/29/2003), that's pretty much it as far as I know; so far! Regarding your second question and heulandite- Na, please see... Ream, L.R. Rocks & Minerals Vol. 76, No. 2 Collector's Note and Ross. C.S., and E.V Shannon. 1924. Mordenite and associated minerals near Challis, Custer County, Idaho. Proceedings U.S. National Museum 64: art.19. Question 3. :-) Definitely a personal relationship I have with this soon to be a powder mineral (see my paper, When Dreams Come True; The Biggest Pocket And The Biggest Plate...). I'll address laumontite more appropriately in the paper, thank you. (Hope you don't mind me asking these , a little bit tongue-in-cheek.)... No, I don't mind at all, in fact, I appreciate your taking the time. For your last question, please see... Ream, L.R. Idaho Minerals: the complete reference and guide to the minerals of Idaho, 2nd edition. Idaho: Museum of North Idaho, 2004 I hope that helps, have a great day, John For further reading on the Rat's Nest Mine and its minerals see... Moore, T. Mineralogical Record Vol. 35, No. 2. What's New In Minerals Moore, T. Mineralogical Record Vol. 33, No. 1. What's New In Minerals Moore, T. Mineralogical Record Vol. 32, No. 3. What's New In Minerals Ream, L.R. Idaho Minerals: the complete reference and guide to the minerals of Idaho, 2nd edition. Idaho: Museum of North Idaho, 2004 Ream, L.R. Rocks & Minerals Vol. 76, No. 2 Collector's Note and the internet sites... http://www.lrream.com/challisheulandite.html (Introduction to the Rat's Nest Mine) http://www.lrream.com/heulanditediscov.html (Discovery of the Rat's Nest Mine) http://www.lrream.com/heulanditemining.html (Mining the Rat's Nest in 2003) http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Mineral%20Show%20Pix/September%20Denver%202004%20Show%20Pix%20Page.htm (Fall Denver 2004 Show Report) http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Mineral%20Show%20Pix/Tucson%202004%20Show%20Pix%20Page.htm (Tucson 2004 Show Report) http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Mineral%20Show%20Pix/Denver%202003%20Show%20Pix%20Page.htm (Fall Denver 2003 Show Report) Peter J. Modreski wrote: >Thanks, John for clarifying this about the minerals. Thinking more about >it, do you mind if I ask a few more questions? > >I should remember (but don't), where an article(s) about the Rat's Nest, >etc., claims near Challis had appeared in the last year or two... was it in >Mineral News (I'm sure there were one or more articles there), or... I'd >like to go back and look at what's been written, so would appreciate it if >you'd let us know. > >Now I'll ask you to clarify your clarifications. I'm curious, has someone >doing microprobe analysis of the heulandite, confirmed that a small amount >of it is Na-rich, hence is heulandite-Na? I assume that's the case. I'd >like to know what info you have about this. > > >And as to the laumontite; so, why do you say, >"Laumontite is thankfully, a relatively rare mineral from >the Rat's Nest Mine..." >So, why are we (I mean you) thankful that it's rare there? Is it ugly? >Messy? You just like to keep things simple? Or you plain just don't like >laumontite? (What did it ever do to you??) > >(Hope you don't mind me asking these, a little bit tongue-in-cheek.) > >Last question, and I'm sure I've read this and perhaps I've even asked Lanny >about it in the past, but again out of curiousity, whereabouts (more or >less--don't worry, I'm not going highgrading, I don't need to know the exact >location if it's a semi-secret) around Challis, is the Rat's Nest Claim? >Back in the early 1980s, I was part of a USGS team who did geologic mapping >in that area--the Challis 1x2-degree quadrangle. I worked in the area west >of the Salmon River between Challis and Salmon, though most of my own work >was in the Precambrian rocks closer up toward Salmon. I did see a few >zeolite occurrences in the Challis Volcanics here & there, but never of >course anything spectacular such as what you've been finding. Most all of >my familiarity is in the area NW of Challis--north of and west of the Salmon >River. So, that's why I'm curious, what general part of the country around >there, is your claim located in? (is it north, south, east, or west of >Challis?) (As I've said, without publicizing any information more specific >than what you want publicized.) > >That's all-thanks for the answers, >Pete > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John and Gloria Cornish" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 11:35 AM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent Zeolites, Rat's Nest Mine > > > > >>Hi Peter, Lanny and Everyone, >> >>Thank you for your comments. I've cleaned up the Heulandite- Na and >>Laumontite descriptions of their misleading verbiage.... >> >>HEULANDITE- Na.... Heulandite-Na from the Rat's Nest Mine has not yet >>been observed displaying a fluorescent reaction to either short or >>long-wave ultraviolet. >> >>LAUMONTITE.... Laumontite is thankfully, a relatively rare mineral from >>the Rat's Nest Mine has not yet been observed displaying a fluorescent >>reaction to either short or long-wave ultraviolet. >> >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kentnorwood at comcast.net Sun Jan 9 11:51:12 2005 From: kentnorwood at comcast.net (Kent Smith) Date: Sun Jan 9 11:47:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Songs Message-ID: <000b01c4f684$92e7d780$6501a8c0@kent> I made 3 CDs of geology / ecology related music. Here's my lists: Planet Earth - Duran Duran I Feel The Earth Move - Carol King Look Out Any Window - Bruce Hornsby and the Range In The Country - CHicago Atlantis - Donovan Big Bad John - Jimmy Dean Africa - Toto Rocky Mountain Way - Joe Walsh Let It Rain - Eric Clapton When The Levee Breaks - Led Zeppelin Volcano - Jimmy Buffett Going To The Country - The Steve Miller Band Here We Are In Teh Years - Neil Young Nature's Way - Sprit Fire On The Mountain - Marshall Tucker Band And It Stoned Me - Van Morrison Like A Rock - Bob Seger Mountain Music - Alabama Sixteen Tons - Tennessee Ernie Ford Nature's Disappearing - John Mayall and The Blues Breakers Country Comforts - Elton John (or Rod Stewart or others) Cool Water - Marty Robbins Livin' On The Fault Line - The Doobie Brothers Landslide - Fleetwood Mac North To Alaska - Johnny Horton Heart Of The Country - Paul McCartney Ol' Man River - Jeff Beck Mercy, Mercy Me - Marvin Gaye Workin' In A Coal Mine - The Judds (or others) Rocky Mountain High - John Denver Take Me To The River - The Talking Heads Ridin' The Storm Out - REO Speedwagon I Am A Rock - Simon & Garfunkel Dust In The Wind - Kansas Rock You Like A Hurricane - The Scorpions Fresh Garbage - Spirit Gimme Some Water - Eddie Money California Earthquake - Norman Greenbaum River - Joni Mitchell The Wild Frontier - Bruce Hornsby and the Range New York Mining Diaster 1941 - The Bee Gees River Deep, Mountain High - Sam Cooke (or others) Gold - Dan Fogelberg & Tim Weidberg Stone Cold - Rainbow Green River - Creedence Clearwater revival Still Rainin', Still Dreamin' - Jimi Hendrix At The Mountains Of Madness - HP Lovecraft Swamp Music - Lynyrd Skynyrd Roll Away The Stone - Leon Russell I was thinking of marketing them, but getting the legal releases from so many sources turned out to be more trouble than it was worth. Cheers, Kent --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From DOMMELEN at DAL.CA Sun Jan 9 07:32:04 2005 From: DOMMELEN at DAL.CA (Ronnie Van Dommelen) Date: Sun Jan 9 12:06:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] songs In-Reply-To: <41E055FC.6010305@xs4all.nl> References: <009201c4f4d5$b108c590$8e91fea9@Namibiaminerals> <41E028BD.7050301@tenforward.com> <41E055FC.6010305@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <1105284724.41e14e74a2ed4@my2.dal.ca> Maurice, >From Cape Breton, Nova Scotia there is a group called '(The) Men of the Deep' formed from coal miners. They have been around for decades, and although our last coal mine shut down a couple years ago, they still sing all around the world. You might find something of theirs online. Later, ROnnie Quoting Maurice de Graaf : > Hi list, > > I had the idea to compile me a CD with songs related to mining, miners, > pits etc. I know there must be tonnes of old songs about this subject, > but sofar I did not manage to successfully google-up some of old songs. > Does anyone know where to find such songs (for free of course ;-) ) > > cheers, > Maurice > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sun Jan 9 13:04:12 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sun Jan 9 12:54:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquake & Tsunami information resources References: <001201c4f595$dbca0a80$56a3490c@pete><6.2.0.14.2.20050108164324.02ddfd18@mail.spiritone.com><002701c4f5e9$bac6eac0$f7a4490c@pete> <2A23679E-620A-11D9-944A-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <006101c4f68e$c9581b40$d7a4490c@pete> Hi Lanny, The answer seems to be, that there aren't really any precise measurements yet of how much the land (or seafloor) actually moved--only estimates. One story I read says that they must wait until scientists/surveyors come to take precise GPS readings to see how much positions have changed; but I'm sure there are more pressing things to do in that area right now, and then it will probably take some effort to tie the new measurements in to whatever previous precise location data may exist. The USGS web page Q&A about the earthquake says the "The maximum displacement estimated from a preliminary study of the seismic body waves is 20 meters"; obviously, that's just a rough estimate, from seismic waves recorded thousands of miles away. Then they say "The displacement of the ground surface will be... somewhat less than the displacement on the earthquake fault at depth. In places, the block of crust beneath the sea floor and overlying the causative fault is likely to have moved on the order of 10 meters to the west-southwest and to have been uplifted by several meters." That seems to be as much as anyone can say for the time being--just estimates. The fault zone itself is not located on land, but offshore. Pete Q&A at: http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqinthenews/2004/usslav/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny" > Pete, do any of those web sites you gave in the message earlier today > provide information on how much movement, where, etc. Shouldn't Banda > Aceh be on the plate that was thrown up? Where does the fault cut > through there? I haven't had time to search those pages. From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Sun Jan 9 15:14:02 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Sun Jan 9 15:14:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent Zeolites Message-ID: <41E1BABA.9040000@tenforward.com> Hi Pete and Everyone, There was an entire list of links and article information at the end of the Rat's Nest post. I'll present it again following this letter. Other then papers I've sent to the net (The Glamour of Mining; Challis, Idaho. 5/22/2003 and Buried Alive; Challis, Idaho 6/29/2003), that's pretty much it as far as I know; so far! Regarding your second question and heulandite- Na, please see... Ream, L.R. Rocks & Minerals Vol. 76, No. 2 Collector's Note and Ross. C.S., and E.V Shannon. 1924. Mordenite and associated minerals near Challis, Custer County, Idaho. Proceedings U.S. National Museum 64: art.19. Question 3. :-) Definitely a personal relationship I have with this soon to be a powder mineral (see my paper, When Dreams Come True; The Biggest Pocket And The Biggest Plate...). I'll address laumontite more appropriately in the paper, thank you. (Hope you don't mind me asking these , a little bit tongue-in-cheek.)... No, I don't mind at all, in fact, I appreciate your taking the time. For your last question, please see... Ream, L.R. Idaho Minerals: the complete reference and guide to the minerals of Idaho, 2nd edition. Idaho: Museum of North Idaho, 2004 I hope that helps, have a great day, John For further reading on the Rat's Nest Mine and its minerals see... Moore, T. Mineralogical Record Vol. 35, No. 2. What's New In Minerals Moore, T. Mineralogical Record Vol. 33, No. 1. What's New In Minerals Moore, T. Mineralogical Record Vol. 32, No. 3. What's New In Minerals Ream, L.R. Idaho Minerals: the complete reference and guide to the minerals of Idaho, 2nd edition. Idaho: Museum of North Idaho, 2004 Ream, L.R. Rocks & Minerals Vol. 76, No. 2 Collector's Note and the internet sites... http://www.lrream.com/challisheulandite.html (Introduction to the Rat's Nest Mine) http://www.lrream.com/heulanditediscov.html (Discovery of the Rat's Nest Mine) http://www.lrream.com/heulanditemining.html (Mining the Rat's Nest in 2003) http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Mineral%20Show%20Pix/September%20Denver%202004%20Show%20Pix%20Page.htm (Fall Denver 2004 Show Report) http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Mineral%20Show%20Pix/Tucson%202004%20Show%20Pix%20Page.htm (Tucson 2004 Show Report) http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Mineral%20Show%20Pix/Denver%202003%20Show%20Pix%20Page.htm (Fall Denver 2003 Show Report) Peter J. Modreski wrote: >Thanks, John for clarifying this about the minerals. Thinking more about >it, do you mind if I ask a few more questions? > >I should remember (but don't), where an article(s) about the Rat's Nest, >etc., claims near Challis had appeared in the last year or two... was it in >Mineral News (I'm sure there were one or more articles there), or... I'd >like to go back and look at what's been written, so would appreciate it if >you'd let us know. > >Now I'll ask you to clarify your clarifications. I'm curious, has someone >doing microprobe analysis of the heulandite, confirmed that a small amount >of it is Na-rich, hence is heulandite-Na? I assume that's the case. I'd >like to know what info you have about this. > > >And as to the laumontite; so, why do you say, >"Laumontite is thankfully, a relatively rare mineral from >the Rat's Nest Mine..." >So, why are we (I mean you) thankful that it's rare there? Is it ugly? >Messy? You just like to keep things simple? Or you plain just don't like >laumontite? (What did it ever do to you??) > >(Hope you don't mind me asking these, a little bit tongue-in-cheek.) > >Last question, and I'm sure I've read this and perhaps I've even asked Lanny >about it in the past, but again out of curiousity, whereabouts (more or >less--don't worry, I'm not going highgrading, I don't need to know the exact >location if it's a semi-secret) around Challis, is the Rat's Nest Claim? >Back in the early 1980s, I was part of a USGS team who did geologic mapping >in that area--the Challis 1x2-degree quadrangle. I worked in the area west >of the Salmon River between Challis and Salmon, though most of my own work >was in the Precambrian rocks closer up toward Salmon. I did see a few >zeolite occurrences in the Challis Volcanics here & there, but never of >course anything spectacular such as what you've been finding. Most all of >my familiarity is in the area NW of Challis--north of and west of the Salmon >River. So, that's why I'm curious, what general part of the country around >there, is your claim located in? (is it north, south, east, or west of >Challis?) (As I've said, without publicizing any information more specific >than what you want publicized.) > >That's all-thanks for the answers, >Pete > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John and Gloria Cornish" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 11:35 AM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent Zeolites, Rat's Nest Mine > > > > >>Hi Peter, Lanny and Everyone, >> >>Thank you for your comments. I've cleaned up the Heulandite- Na and >>Laumontite descriptions of their misleading verbiage.... >> >>HEULANDITE- Na.... Heulandite-Na from the Rat's Nest Mine has not yet >>been observed displaying a fluorescent reaction to either short or >>long-wave ultraviolet. >> >>LAUMONTITE.... Laumontite is thankfully, a relatively rare mineral from >>the Rat's Nest Mine has not yet been observed displaying a fluorescent >>reaction to either short or long-wave ultraviolet. >> >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Sun Jan 9 15:16:09 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Sun Jan 9 15:16:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent Zeolites And Associated Minerals From The Rat's Nest Mine, Challis, Idaho, Part 1 In-Reply-To: <97B32D3E-60F3-11D9-97C0-000A95A8FEB6@his.com> References: <41DEFC0C.4020201@tenforward.com> <97B32D3E-60F3-11D9-97C0-000A95A8FEB6@his.com> Message-ID: <41E1BB39.5010102@tenforward.com> Hi Cathy, Likely. John Catherine Gaber wrote: > dear john, > > can you be more specific as to the kind of opal? is it hyalite? > > cathy > > On Jan 7, 2005, at 4:15 PM, John and Gloria Cornish wrote: > >> 1/7/2005 >> >> Fluorescent Zeolites And Associated Minerals From The Rat's Nest >> Mine, Challis, Idaho, Part 1 >> >> By John Cornish >> j&gcornish@tenforward.com >> >> >> >> >> Located in central Idaho near the small community of Challis, the >> Rat's Nest Mine has become a significant producer of world class >> heulandite- Ca and mordenite over the last several years. Specimens >> from this deposit are housed within many of the world's most >> prestigious museums and among the shelves of an ever growing >> assemblage of enthusiastic collectors. Utilizing mechanized and hand >> tool exploitation, specimens have been recovered in geode- like >> pockets weighing up to 65 pounds (29.5 kg). Among the associated >> minerals thus far recovered are stilbite, analcime, several >> generations of calcite, quartz, laumontite, and the ever ubiquitous >> heulandite- Na as pocket linings and micro sized crystals. To this a >> new mineral species can now be added, this the amorphous silicon >> oxide hydrate, opal. >> >> Opal has only recently been identified as occurring at the Rat's Nest >> Mine. This first discovery was made while cleaning specimens produced >> from last year's, 2004, mining operations. At a point mid stream in >> the process, ultraviolet short and long-wave illumination was >> directed towards dozens of laid out specimens. When this fluorescent >> light played across those crystals, overwhelming all else seemingly, >> opal's presence became immediately known. Prior to this, when >> consulting Robbins (1994), it was found that while rare, some zeolite >> minerals do have a history of fluorescence, included in this list >> were all of the species known to occur from the Rat's Nest Mine >> (though it should be clarified that the separation of the zeolite >> species heulandite- Ca and heulandite- Na by the I.M.A. had not >> occurred at the time of this references writing). With this my >> incentive, I darkened the room and turned on my ultraviolet lights. I >> have two I use, for long-wave ultraviolet illumination, I have a home >> made 8 watt Sylvania BLB (Black Light Blue), and for short-wave, I >> have a UV Systems 2000SW. Lanny Ream also assisted in this >> observation, generously sharing information gleaned from illuminating >> specimens from his personal collection using a dual wavelength >> Mineralight UVSL-55 from UV Products. >> >> Below are the fluorescent and phosphorescent observations made during >> this examination. The mineral descriptions presented in this paper >> have been arranged in regards to the specimens fluorescent >> desirability and is not intended to represent a crystallization >> sequence. >> >> >> OPAL.... Opal is one of the world's more commonly occurring >> fluorescing minerals and one of a large group of minerals displaying >> green fluorescence due to trace amounts of included uranium. >> Unobserved until this examination, where it occurs, opal covers >> mineral surfaces in solid and partial coatings which are, or are, >> nearly invisible to the unaided eye. Opal is included within the >> other minerals found here which share its same fluorescent >> coloration, though this color is often subdued and uneven as >> inclusionary depths vary within the host crystals. Other then calcite >> with its own unique fluorescence, the most common fluorescence seen >> in specimens examined thus far from the Rat's Nest Mine have resulted >> from opal. Short-wave ultraviolet illumination produces a neon bright >> characteristic uranium green color startlingly beautiful in >> specimens. Under long-wave ultraviolet, the effect is much more >> subdued and a tone more yellowish- green is produced. There is no >> phosphorescence associated with this mineral in those specimens thus >> far observed. > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Sun Jan 9 16:56:38 2005 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Sun Jan 9 16:56:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] songs In-Reply-To: <011301c4f604$5ffced90$6601a8c0@GlennWimpee> Message-ID: <200501100056.j0A0uqu7030574@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Timothy, by The Buoys. http://www.songfacts.com/detail.lasso?id=2005 Trapped in a mine that had caved in And everyone knows the only ones left Were Joe and me and Tim When they broke through to pull us free The only ones left to tell the tale Were Joe and me Timothy, Timothy, where on earth did you go? Timothy, Timothy, God why don't I know? Hungry as hell no food to eat And Joe said that he would sell his soul For just a piece of meat Water enough to drink for two And Joe said to me, "I'll have a swig And then there's some for you." Timothy, Timothy, Joe was looking at you Timothy, Timothy, God what did we do? I must have blacked out just around then 'Cause the very next thing that I could see Was the light of the day again My stomach was full as it could be And nobody ever got around To finding Timothy Timothy... GcB From tangojuli at yahoo.com Sun Jan 9 18:57:11 2005 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Sun Jan 9 18:57:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mining Songs-maurice reply In-Reply-To: <200501090201.j09214s3027281@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20050110025711.98414.qmail@web60808.mail.yahoo.com> Maurice asked about songs about mining-- When I was being drizzled to death on my collecting trip in Arizona at the end of December, I was listening to the new Mark Knopfler cd (formerly of dire straits) which had a song mentioning miners and something about card players and the old west (?). It was memorable, as I sat there looking thru the wet windsheild at the hematite mine, soggy still from getting rained on while sleeping. Sorry I don't remember the name of the song. PS---Mark Knopfler makes for the best desert road trip music! tina aka tangojuli --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! – What will yours do? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Sun Jan 9 19:25:16 2005 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn's Mail) Date: Sun Jan 9 19:25:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] songs References: <009201c4f4d5$b108c590$8e91fea9@Namibiaminerals><41E028BD.7050301@tenforward.com> <41E055FC.6010305@xs4all.nl> <6.2.0.14.0.20050108213800.043aeab0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <003401c4f6c4$015299f0$6601a8c0@GlennWimpee> Kitty, That's a Jerry Reed country song about his divorce. "SHE got the gold miine, I got the shaft" ROTFL, but it is OT with the mine! Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 1:42 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] songs > I can't remember the name of the song or singer; maybe not even have the > words quite right on this country song, but... > > "He got the gold mine, I got the shaft." > > Aloha, Kitty From tim at orerockon.com Sun Jan 9 20:28:33 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun Jan 9 20:28:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] songs In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.0.20050108213800.043aeab0@mail.aloha.net> References: <009201c4f4d5$b108c590$8e91fea9@Namibiaminerals> <41E028BD.7050301@tenforward.com> <41E055FC.6010305@xs4all.nl> <6.2.0.14.0.20050108213800.043aeab0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20050109202655.02dd9e60@mail.spiritone.com> Oh how TYPICAL of a WOMAN to MISREMEMBER Jerry Reed's {quot}SHE Got the Gold Mine and I Got The Shaft" as HE got the gold mine! (dripping sarcasm should be evident here ;) At 11:42 PM 1/8/2005, you wrote: I can't remember the name of the song or singer; maybe not even have the words quite right on this country song, but... "He got the gold mine, I got the shaft." Aloha, Kitty Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site Owner, Fisher Fisheries, Ltd. nospam@OreRockOn.com WWW http://OreRockOn.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From afox at drizzle.com Mon Jan 10 09:04:22 2005 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Mon Jan 10 09:04:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [OT] Dealing with Undergroundbroker.com Message-ID: So, normally I wouldn't go to this extent, but these fellows have pissed me off. I've recieved messages from fifteen different users, indicating to me that they've been repeatedly spammed by this company. Underground Broker is: Administrative Contact: Neto, Joseph info@undergroundbroker.com 7022 TPC Drive Suite 400 Orlando, Florida 32822 United States 407-281-4221 Fax -- 407-281-7337 Undergroundbroker.com is hosted by E-Soft Tech Solutions, Inc. (http://www.esofthosting.com). Interestingly enough, guess what. E-Soft Tech Solutions is hosted at the same site! Gomes, Alexandre info@e-softhosting.com The Underground Broker, Inc. 7022 TPC Drive Suite 400 Orlando, Florida 32822 United States (407) 281-4221 Fax -- (407) 281-733 Incidentally, Mr./Ms. Gomes lives at: 2037 Basil Dr, Orlando, FL 32837 (407) 854-6828 Based on this, I suspect that pleas to either site will go unanswered. Faxes and phone calls directly to the office, letting these 'gentlemen' know how unhappy you are with their marketing methods, might have a better result. The rockhounding community is a small one, and I'm sure a site like this really doesn't want to alienate potential customers. So, here's what you do (if you want to send a certain someone a message about how NOT to integrate oneself with the Internet community) 1) Keep one of the spammy messages. You're going to attach it to the messages you are going to send to the Abuse departments. 2) Since Undergroundbroker.com and Esofthosting.com are one in the same, I suggest approaching the abuse department at the upstream provider, Atlantic.net. Traceroutes suggest these guys are hosting their websites over a DSL line provided by Atlantic.net Send an email, with the spammy message attached (as an attachment), and a brief description of how long the spam has been going on (and how if you've tried to get unsubscribed and failed), to: - abuse@atlantic.net - legal@atlantic.net (probably not going to do anything, but likely to get read) If enough of us complain, something might actually get done. One complaint is nothing. 15-20 complaints is something more.... Sorry for the O/T rant, but sometimes, these guys really piss me off. a. Rockhounds Admin -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From DicksWi at northville.k12.mi.us Mon Jan 10 10:27:47 2005 From: DicksWi at northville.k12.mi.us (William Dicks) Date: Mon Jan 10 10:28:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fwd: Mine songs Message-ID: Our High School Media Specialist did a little search for songs and came up with the following........enjoy Bill Dicks MESTA Board Member --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) message/rfc822 --- From pgre at alltel.net Mon Jan 10 10:37:39 2005 From: pgre at alltel.net (Paul and Robin Green) Date: Mon Jan 10 10:42:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Tsunami waves pics Message-ID: <001301c4f743$7dbb1a60$0200000a@alltel.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: denny woods To: ben&phyllis ; Bill Fountain ; Bob Poulton ; Carlie Coley ; charles martin ; Darlene ; Denny Gilbert ; Dianna Wood ; 'DICK & KAY NEWMAN' ; Don Duncan ; Frank Meitz ; Fred Burnham ; FRED JOHNSON ; George Baruxes ; George Burley ; glmartin Martin ; jackie ; Jeff and Cynthia Mathews ; jeff yost ; Jennifer ; Jim Penick ; Joel Hardbarger ; John Doneff ; John Stubbings ; JoJo ; Kristen Sherrard ; Larry ingram ; LEWISR Lewis ; Lisa Ankrum ; Loren Turner ; Mary Wiseman ; mike gorsuch ; Mike Plank ; MikeH Hoyt ; Paul Green ; Phyllis Penick ; Ramon Lago ; Randy Goin ; Rick Kirvan ; Roger Clum ; Roger Hegemier ; S. Davis ; Sandy ; Steven Cochran ; tgrizzard Grizzard ; Tom Chadwick ; Trina Smoke ; Valerie ; William Young ; Yachtjolly Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 4:17 PM Subject: Fw: Tsunami waves pics Tsunami wave pictures; Hard to believe. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg --- From rico at ricosweb.com Mon Jan 10 12:35:52 2005 From: rico at ricosweb.com (Rich Allen) Date: Mon Jan 10 12:36:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Songs In-Reply-To: <000b01c4f684$92e7d780$6501a8c0@kent> Message-ID: <2005110133552.398866@laptop> On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 11:51:12 -0800, Kent Smith wrote: >?I made 3 CDs of geology / ecology related music. ?Here's my lists: I can't believe "Heart of Gold" by Neil Young hasn't made it here yet... "I've been a miner for a heart of gold" Rich Allen From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Mon Jan 10 12:49:05 2005 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Mon Jan 10 12:47:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] songs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <10D70D3E-6349-11D9-AE4C-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Hi Everyone, If my memory serves (I heard it years ago, at a university library) there is an old old compilation of mining songs on LP. It may have been put out on the "Folkways" label. Cheers, Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada From lanny at lrream.com Mon Jan 10 13:31:21 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Mon Jan 10 13:29:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquake & Tsunami information resources In-Reply-To: <006101c4f68e$c9581b40$d7a4490c@pete> References: <001201c4f595$dbca0a80$56a3490c@pete><6.2.0.14.2.20050108164324.02ddfd18@mail.spiritone.com><002701c4f5e9$bac6eac0$f7a4490c@pete> <2A23679E-620A-11D9-944A-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <006101c4f68e$c9581b40$d7a4490c@pete> Message-ID: Hi Pete, Thanks for the info. The link was most helpful. The three maps on the first page probably provided the answer. I was sure from memory, and the location of the earthquake, that the plate boundary, thus the fault where the quake happened was just off the west coast of Sumatra. If that was so, then how would Band Aceh be underwater? It should have gone up with that plate. The answer is apparently shown in those maps. There is another fault cutting off the tip of Sumatra (with Banda Aceh) separating the Burma Microplate. This microplate must be have dropped taking the tip of Sumatra/Banda Aceh below sea level. Regards, Lanny On Jan 9, 2005, at 1:04 PM, Peter J. Modreski wrote: > Hi Lanny, > > The answer seems to be, that there aren't really any precise > measurements > yet of how much the land (or seafloor) actually moved--only estimates. > One > story I read says that they must wait until scientists/surveyors come > to > take precise GPS readings to see how much positions have changed; but > I'm > sure there are more pressing things to do in that area right now, and > then > it will probably take some effort to tie the new measurements in to > whatever > previous precise location data may exist. > > The USGS web page Q&A about the earthquake says the "The maximum > displacement estimated from a preliminary study of the seismic body > waves is > 20 meters"; obviously, that's just a rough estimate, from seismic > waves > recorded thousands of miles away. Then they say "The displacement of > the > ground surface will be... somewhat less than the displacement on the > earthquake fault at depth. In places, the block of crust beneath the > sea > floor and overlying the causative fault is likely to have moved on the > order > of 10 meters to the west-southwest and to have been uplifted by several > meters." That seems to be as much as anyone can say for the time > being--just estimates. The fault zone itself is not located on land, > but > offshore. > > Pete > > Q&A at: http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqinthenews/2004/usslav/ > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lanny" >> Pete, do any of those web sites you gave in the message earlier today >> provide information on how much movement, where, etc. Shouldn't Banda >> Aceh be on the plate that was thrown up? Where does the fault cut >> through there? I haven't had time to search those pages. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Mon Jan 10 13:38:22 2005 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 10 13:38:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] songs Message-ID: <300E8FC9.5475387F.02180873@aol.com> sung to the tune of "It's a long way from Tiperary". I have no idea who originally came up with this one. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE _________________________________________________________ It's a long long way from amphioxus It's a long way from us It's a long long way from amphioxus To the meanest human cuss So long to fins and gill slits Welcome lungs and hair It's a long long way from amphioxus But we all came from there From herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be Mon Jan 10 13:46:56 2005 From: herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be (herwig pelckmans) Date: Mon Jan 10 13:50:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] songs References: <300E8FC9.5475387F.02180873@aol.com> Message-ID: <013701c4f75d$e7cb5c20$a9efe0d5@telenet.be> How about : U2 with "Springhill Mining Disaster" for the lyrics, see for example (all on 1 line): http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Springhill-Mining-Disaster-lyrics-U2/ 0EFF4551DE007CC24825689600307364 Cheers, Herwig Herwig Pelckmans Worldwide Mineral Collector Cardijnstraat 12 B-3530 Helchteren Belgium Europe http://www.xlizd.com From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Mon Jan 10 14:04:29 2005 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Mon Jan 10 14:04:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] songs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41E2FBED.1020503@xs4all.nl> >"Working in the coal mine" is a nice one too! > > Yep of course Loretta's Coal miner's daughter. >There's no such thing as legal free music ;-))) > > Well, every morning when I ride my bike I whistle a song, totally free. And I never got an invoice from the blackbird sitting on my roof on a warm summer evening. There is more out there than cyberspace Axel :-))) I'm not looking for modern music, but for those old forgotten songs of the early 1900's. A couple of years ago I woke up at about 5am on a sunday morning. I try not to make a habit of that, but I was on my way to a mineral show. The radio had some theme program about music related to mining. The music was of poor quality, but it painted a great picture of the early day hardships of the miner. Thanks you all for your responses. I will google on with your titles and suggestions! Cheers, Maurice >Downloading actual hit music has become rather dangerous lately since the >music industry has developed ways to track the whereabouts of "tagged" MP3's >(or so they claim). >The very old stuff that no longer exists on commercially available records >may still be found using peer-to-peer networking. One could try BearShare >www.bearshare.com/nl (remember to turn off the "sharing" opion! It's illegal >to spread music over the internet. Downloading is not. At least in Belgium >and Holland it isn't...) > >Should you embark on a quest to find these songs, be sure to have a VERY >GOOD firewall and anti virus software in place and update you virus >definitions daily. It's a mine field out there ;-))) >Also: some ISP 's actually forbid PTP networking because it uses up massive >porions of bandwidth. > >Cheers > >Axel > > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kitty & Bill Heacox >Verzonden: zondag 9 januari 2005 8:43 >Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] songs > > >I can't remember the name of the song or singer; maybe not even have the >words quite right on this country song, but... > >"He got the gold mine, I got the shaft." > >Aloha, Kitty > > >At 11:51 AM 1/8/2005, you wrote: > > > >>Hi list, >> >>I had the idea to compile me a CD with songs related to mining, miners, >>pits etc. I know there must be tonnes of old songs about this subject, but >>sofar I did not manage to successfully google-up some of old songs. Does >>anyone know where to find such songs (for free of course ;-) ) >> >>cheers, >>Maurice >>_______________________________________________ >> >> > > >-- >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 1/6/2005 > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Mon Jan 10 14:07:02 2005 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Mon Jan 10 14:06:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] songs In-Reply-To: <013701c4f75d$e7cb5c20$a9efe0d5@telenet.be> References: <300E8FC9.5475387F.02180873@aol.com> <013701c4f75d$e7cb5c20$a9efe0d5@telenet.be> Message-ID: <41E2FC86.6040409@xs4all.nl> A recall I song the 'ephesema blues', with a lot of coughing. No idea who wrote/performed it. herwig pelckmans wrote: >How about : > >U2 with "Springhill Mining Disaster" >for the lyrics, see for example (all on 1 line): >http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Springhill-Mining-Disaster-lyrics-U2/ >0EFF4551DE007CC24825689600307364 > >Cheers, Herwig > >Herwig Pelckmans >Worldwide Mineral Collector >Cardijnstraat 12 >B-3530 Helchteren >Belgium Europe >http://www.xlizd.com > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From jaszczak at mtu.edu Mon Jan 10 14:06:53 2005 From: jaszczak at mtu.edu (John Jaszczak) Date: Mon Jan 10 14:07:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] songs In-Reply-To: <41E2FBED.1020503@xs4all.nl> References: Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20050110170603.011bdb78@email.mtu.edu> Disney's Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs has a cute song by the dwarfs singing about how they "dig dig dig" for diamonds (and apparently don't know why). John From herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be Mon Jan 10 14:08:25 2005 From: herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be (herwig pelckmans) Date: Mon Jan 10 14:12:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] songs References: <41E2FBED.1020503@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <017e01c4f760$e86264a0$a9efe0d5@telenet.be> Maurice, The following is probably close to what you are looking for ... Make sure to read the biography just below the first picture. http://www.folknorthwest.co.uk/harry_boardman.htm Cheers, Herwig Herwig Pelckmans Worldwide Mineral Collector Cardijnstraat 12 B-3530 Helchteren Belgium Europe http://www.xlizd.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice de Graaf" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 11:04 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] songs > > >"Working in the coal mine" is a nice one too! > > > > > Yep of course Loretta's Coal miner's daughter. > > >There's no such thing as legal free music ;-))) > > > > > Well, every morning when I ride my bike I whistle a song, totally free. > And I never got an invoice from the blackbird sitting on my roof on a > warm summer evening. There is more out there than cyberspace Axel :-))) > > I'm not looking for modern music, but for those old forgotten songs of > the early 1900's. A couple of years ago I woke up at about 5am on a > sunday morning. I try not to make a habit of that, but I was on my way > to a mineral show. The radio had some theme program about music related > to mining. The music was of poor quality, but it painted a great picture > of the early day hardships of the miner. > > Thanks you all for your responses. I will google on with your titles and > suggestions! > > Cheers, > Maurice > > >Downloading actual hit music has become rather dangerous lately since the > >music industry has developed ways to track the whereabouts of "tagged" MP3's > >(or so they claim). > >The very old stuff that no longer exists on commercially available records > >may still be found using peer-to-peer networking. One could try BearShare > >www.bearshare.com/nl (remember to turn off the "sharing" opion! It's illegal > >to spread music over the internet. Downloading is not. At least in Belgium > >and Holland it isn't...) > > > >Should you embark on a quest to find these songs, be sure to have a VERY > >GOOD firewall and anti virus software in place and update you virus > >definitions daily. It's a mine field out there ;-))) > >Also: some ISP 's actually forbid PTP networking because it uses up massive > >porions of bandwidth. > > > >Cheers > > > >Axel > > > > > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > >Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kitty & Bill Heacox > >Verzonden: zondag 9 januari 2005 8:43 > >Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > >Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] songs > > > > > >I can't remember the name of the song or singer; maybe not even have the > >words quite right on this country song, but... > > > >"He got the gold mine, I got the shaft." > > > >Aloha, Kitty > > > > > >At 11:51 AM 1/8/2005, you wrote: > > > > > > > >>Hi list, > >> > >>I had the idea to compile me a CD with songs related to mining, miners, > >>pits etc. I know there must be tonnes of old songs about this subject, but > >>sofar I did not manage to successfully google-up some of old songs. Does > >>anyone know where to find such songs (for free of course ;-) ) > >> > >>cheers, > >>Maurice > >>_______________________________________________ > >> > >> > > > > > >-- > >No virus found in this outgoing message. > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 1/6/2005 > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From lanny at lrream.com Mon Jan 10 14:46:37 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Mon Jan 10 14:44:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent Zeolites In-Reply-To: <41E1BABA.9040000@tenforward.com> References: <41E1BABA.9040000@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <7C31596A-6359-11D9-94FD-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi Pete and John, Guess I had better fell in a few holes here about the heulandite-Na. While looking for the original (long lost mordenite location described in the Ross and Shannon reference in John's list below), I discovered the occurrence of the good heulandite-Ca of what is now the Rat's Nest claim. This happened only when a mineralogist, aged and unable to do any hiking, asked me to search out this valley where he had seen some zeolites when he was in the 3rd grade, in the 1940s. After finding the heulandite-Ca occurence, I found the original mordenite occurrence around a mile away, a long way from location "in the low hills 15 miles south of Challis" given in the Ross and Shannon report. This all became even more interesting to me, because when the zeolites were redefined and split up into those ridiculous separated species, the original mordenite locality became the type locality for heulandite-Na, because Ross and Shannon were so diligent in having them analyzed and described in that article. Along with that, heulandite-Na is much less common than the Ca species worldwide. With that all said, the heulandite-Na being a type locality mineral at the original location, it was of course, necessary to find out what the red-orange crystals were at the Rat's Nest. Sure enough, analyses of two specimens showed that they were Na dominant, and analyses of the large white to pink crystals proved they are Ca dominant. This was all interesting, but my aged mineralogist friend wasn't done. He said that there also were tiny red-orange huelandite crystals in Challis. Sometime later, we met down there again and went to town, and sure enough, 100 feet past the north end of 2nd street, in the green agglomerates there are these seams with tiny orange heulandites, which he analyzed as Na dominant (talk about a great location, walk out the door of your house for 100 feet and collect minerals!) . He wasn't done yet with the species in the area; he said that he had looked around the Challis area roadcuts in the 1970s and noted small fillings of zeolites in several other areas, one of them was north of town at the mouth of Morgan Creek (as you know Pete, that's the route to the Blackbird cobalt district) where there also were tiny red-orange heulandites. We took samples, and they too proved to be heulandite-Na. Later, I hiked a lot of country from there to the north and west (possibly some of the areas you were in) and found several more areas with the tiny red-orange heulandites, although these were not analyzed to determine if they were Na dominant. The gist of it is, heulandite-Na is fairly common in the Challis area, even though scarce worldwide. At the original mordenite location and the Rat's Nest claim it is abundant. If you look at the matrix, it is filled with small amygdules, most of which are lined with a red-orange coating of heulandite-Na, then often lined or filled with mordenite, and then most often completely filled with a white massive quartz. At the Rat's Nest claim, there are a fair number of the small vesicles that are not filled, but just lined with the nice red-orange heulandite-Na crystals, which make wonderful micro specimens. Occasionally there are a few tiny quartz crystals or black chlorite(?) spheres on the heulandite-Na. And it isn't just those tiny cavities and amydgules, most of the large cavities with the good mordenite and large pink heulandite-Ca crystals are also lined with the red-orange heulandite-Na crystals. So, nearly everyone who has a heulandite-Ca specimen from the Rat's Nest claim, also has several hundred to several thousand heulandite-Na crystals. And John is very nice about this, he doesn't charge for the heulandite-Na! The only downside, is the heulandite-Na type locality; I have been unable to find any open vesicles with the heulandite-Na crystals. They weather out so it is easy to find the amygdules, hard white quartz heavily included with mordenite needles, or just a compact filling of mordenite and all with a red coating of heulandite-Na. If there are any open cavities that were lined with the heulandite-Na crystals, they are hiding from me. Another interesting occurrence in the area is the same lava flow contains quite a bit of agate in several places. This is not highly desirable, the agate often has nice banding, but the colors are only the common gray to slightly bluish gray. What I like about them is that they are often coated with the red heulandite-Na crystals, just like the small amygdules with the quartz-mordenite filling. Regards, Lanny On Jan 9, 2005, at 3:14 PM, John and Gloria Cornish wrote: > Hi Pete and Everyone, > > There was an entire list of links and article information at the end > of the Rat's Nest post. I'll present it again following this letter. > Other then papers I've sent to the net (The Glamour of Mining; > Challis, Idaho. 5/22/2003 and Buried Alive; Challis, Idaho > 6/29/2003), that's pretty much it as far as I know; so far! > > Regarding your second question and heulandite- Na, please see... > > Ream, L.R. Rocks & Minerals Vol. 76, No. 2 Collector's Note > > and > > Ross. C.S., and E.V Shannon. 1924. Mordenite and associated minerals > near Challis, Custer County, Idaho. Proceedings U.S. National Museum > 64: art.19. > > Question 3. :-) Definitely a personal relationship I have with this > soon to be a powder mineral (see my paper, When Dreams Come True; The > Biggest Pocket And The Biggest Plate...). I'll address laumontite more > appropriately in the paper, thank you. > > (Hope you don't mind me asking these , a little bit > tongue-in-cheek.)... > > No, I don't mind at all, in fact, I appreciate your taking the time. > > For your last question, please see... > > Ream, L.R. Idaho Minerals: the complete reference and guide to the > minerals of Idaho, 2nd edition. Idaho: Museum of North Idaho, 2004 > > I hope that helps, have a great day, > > John > > > For further reading on the Rat's Nest Mine and its minerals see... > > Moore, T. Mineralogical Record Vol. 35, No. 2. What's New In Minerals > > Moore, T. Mineralogical Record Vol. 33, No. 1. What's New In Minerals > > Moore, T. Mineralogical Record Vol. 32, No. 3. What's New In Minerals > > Ream, L.R. Idaho Minerals: the complete reference and guide to the > minerals of Idaho, 2nd edition. Idaho: Museum of North Idaho, 2004 > > Ream, L.R. Rocks & Minerals Vol. 76, No. 2 Collector's Note > > and the internet sites... > > http://www.lrream.com/challisheulandite.html (Introduction to the > Rat's Nest Mine) > > http://www.lrream.com/heulanditediscov.html (Discovery of the Rat's > Nest Mine) > > http://www.lrream.com/heulanditemining.html (Mining the Rat's Nest > in 2003) > > http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Mineral%20Show%20Pix/ > September%20Denver%202004%20Show%20Pix%20Page.htm (Fall Denver 2004 > Show Report) > > http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Mineral%20Show%20Pix/ > Tucson%202004%20Show%20Pix%20Page.htm (Tucson 2004 Show Report) > > http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Mineral%20Show%20Pix/ > Denver%202003%20Show%20Pix%20Page.htm (Fall Denver 2003 Show Report) > > > > Peter J. Modreski wrote: > >> Thanks, John for clarifying this about the minerals. Thinking more >> about >> it, do you mind if I ask a few more questions? >> >> I should remember (but don't), where an article(s) about the Rat's >> Nest, >> etc., claims near Challis had appeared in the last year or two... was >> it in >> Mineral News (I'm sure there were one or more articles there), or... >> I'd >> like to go back and look at what's been written, so would appreciate >> it if >> you'd let us know. >> >> Now I'll ask you to clarify your clarifications. I'm curious, has >> someone >> doing microprobe analysis of the heulandite, confirmed that a small >> amount >> of it is Na-rich, hence is heulandite-Na? I assume that's the case. >> I'd >> like to know what info you have about this. >> >> ... From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Mon Jan 10 15:13:13 2005 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn's Mail) Date: Mon Jan 10 15:13:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Songs References: <000b01c4f684$92e7d780$6501a8c0@kent> Message-ID: <002f01c4f769$f5d80be0$6601a8c0@GlennWimpee> Wow! I remember just about all these! Too bad my recall ability isn't as good as I'd wish. Great music, and a terrific spread of music genres! Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kent Smith" Subject: [Rockhounds] Songs I made 3 CDs of geology / ecology related music. Here's my lists: (see his original post) I was thinking of marketing them, but getting the legal releases from so many sources turned out to be more trouble than it was worth. Cheers, Kent From geenet2 at mchsi.com Mon Jan 10 15:18:56 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Mon Jan 10 15:19:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] songs References: Message-ID: <009d01c4f76a$c261cd40$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Yeah, I'm glad I got my 1200 or so mp3's before it all hit the fan at Napster,so to speak. I don't take the chance now, my virus scanner caught two viruses (ii?) when I tried one PTP service, and the last one took forever to connect and then another forever to download anything it did find. Tain't worth it anymore, which is too bad because there are still a few more oldies but goodies I'd like to have gotten. I use Rhapsody now, but some of the stuff I want isn't available. Jeanette > There's no such hing as legal free music ;-))) > Downloading actual hit music has become rather dangerous lately since the > music industry has developed ways to track the whereabouts of "tagged" MP3's > (or so they claim). > The very old stuff that no longer exists on commercially available records > may still be found using peer-to-peer networking. One could try BearShare > www.bearshare.com/nl (remember to turn off the "sharing" opion! It's illegal > to spread music over the internet. Downloading is not. At least in Belgium > and Holland it isn't...) > > Should you embark on a quest to find these songs, be sure to have a VERY > GOOD firewall and anti virus software in place and update you virus > definitions daily. It's a mine field out there ;-))) > Also: some ISP 's actually forbid PTP networking because it uses up massive > porions of bandwidth. > > Cheers > > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kitty & Bill Heacox > Verzonden: zondag 9 januari 2005 8:43 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] songs > > > I can't remember the name of the song or singer; maybe not even have the > words quite right on this country song, but... > > "He got the gold mine, I got the shaft." > > Aloha, Kitty > > > At 11:51 AM 1/8/2005, you wrote: > > >Hi list, > > > >I had the idea to compile me a CD with songs related to mining, miners, > >pits etc. I know there must be tonnes of old songs about this subject, but > >sofar I did not manage to successfully google-up some of old songs. Does > >anyone know where to find such songs (for free of course ;-) ) > > > >cheers, > >Maurice > >_______________________________________________ > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 1/6/2005 > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at aloha.net Mon Jan 10 16:18:34 2005 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Jan 10 15:48:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] songs In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20050109202655.02dd9e60@mail.spiritone.com> References: <009201c4f4d5$b108c590$8e91fea9@Namibiaminerals> <41E028BD.7050301@tenforward.com> <41E055FC.6010305@xs4all.nl> <6.2.0.14.0.20050108213800.043aeab0@mail.aloha.net> <6.2.0.14.2.20050109202655.02dd9e60@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.0.20050110141247.045f2230@mail.aloha.net> I remember it was about a divorce, and that a man was singing (the man got the shaft). I remembered it (misremembered, as you say) as HE being the other man---her lover. Aloha, Kitty...who was not being female chauvinist. This time. At 06:28 PM 1/9/2005, you wrote: >Oh how TYPICAL of a WOMAN to MISREMEMBER Jerry Reed's {quot}SHE Got the >Gold Mine and I Got The Shaft" as HE got the gold mine! > > >(dripping sarcasm should be evident here ;) > > >At 11:42 PM 1/8/2005, you wrote: > > >I can't remember the name of the >song or singer; maybe not even have the words quite right on this country >song, but... > > >"He got the gold mine, I got the shaft." > > >Aloha, Kitty > > > >Tim Fisher > >Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site > >Owner, Fisher Fisheries, Ltd. > >nospam@OreRockOn.com > >WWW >http://OreRockOn.com > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >text/html (html body -- converted) >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.10 - Release Date: 1/10/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.10 - Release Date: 1/10/2005 From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Mon Jan 10 16:18:01 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Mon Jan 10 16:17:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquake changes in the sea floor References: <001201c4f595$dbca0a80$56a3490c@pete><6.2.0.14.2.20050108164324.02ddfd18@mail.spiritone.com><002701c4f5e9$bac6eac0$f7a4490c@pete><2A23679E-620A-11D9-944A-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <006101c4f68e$c9581b40$d7a4490c@pete> Message-ID: <00a101c4f773$02e617b0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I read a story in the newspaper last week that described some preliminary observations. One 4,000 foot deep channel was now 120 foot deep, and another 3,800 foot deep channel was 92 feet deep! The guist of the article was that the whole region was going to have be remapped because the current GPS-based maps were completely useless! Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Modreski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Earthquake & Tsunami information resources > Hi Lanny, > > The answer seems to be, that there aren't really any precise measurements > yet of how much the land (or seafloor) actually moved--only estimates. > One > story I read says that they must wait until scientists/surveyors come to > take precise GPS readings to see how much positions have changed; but I'm > sure there are more pressing things to do in that area right now, and then > it will probably take some effort to tie the new measurements in to > whatever > previous precise location data may exist. > > The USGS web page Q&A about the earthquake says the "The maximum > displacement estimated from a preliminary study of the seismic body waves > is > 20 meters"; obviously, that's just a rough estimate, from seismic waves > recorded thousands of miles away. Then they say "The displacement of the > ground surface will be... somewhat less than the displacement on the > earthquake fault at depth. In places, the block of crust beneath the sea > floor and overlying the causative fault is likely to have moved on the > order > of 10 meters to the west-southwest and to have been uplifted by several > meters." That seems to be as much as anyone can say for the time > being--just estimates. The fault zone itself is not located on land, but > offshore. > > Pete > From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Jan 10 17:04:12 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Jan 10 17:04:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent Zeolites Message-ID: <011120050104.16941.41E3260C0007E5180000422D216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Thanks a lot for all that info, Lanny! While working out there, I had found some moderately nice zeolites in the lava cliffs right close to the trailer park where I'd been staying, at Elk Bend (closer to Salmon than Challis). If I recall, I probably once mentioned that location to you, years and years ago! Pete --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Jan 10 17:14:42 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Jan 10 17:14:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent Zeolites Message-ID: <011120050114.27130.41E3288200048574000069FA216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> And John, I meant to thank YOU for sending the references to the articles on and off the internet, about the Challis zeolites. Pete again --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Jan 10 17:23:02 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Jan 10 17:23:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquake changes in the sea floor Message-ID: <011120050123.7392.41E32A75000F0C2B00001CE0216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Alan, that's real interesting. (Assuming those figures are correct. It must have been landslides I would assume, that filled in a "channel" that way? But filling in a 4000 foot deep channel... really? That's not just a channel, that's a great canyon between two islands!) I've seen two more very interesting new tsunami stories, one is this link to a NASA story on how the earthquake affected the earth, NASA Science News for January 10, 2005 11:00:00 AM The Dec. 26th Indonesian megathrust earthquake quickened Earth's rotation and changed our planet's shape, according to calculations done by NASA scientists. FULL STORY at http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/10jan_earthquake.htm?list1086625 Science@NASA stories are available in Spanish at our sister site, Ciencia@NASA http://ciencia.nasa.gov/;. and the other (help, I can't change the font back to the normal style!) was researched by a colleague at the USGS Earthquake Center, via another contact, he found out where that sequence of tsunami photos (that I think was shown & discussed on this List) was REALLY from, and it's not the 2004 tsunami--in fact it wasn't a tsunami at all, and it wasn't in Japan as people had guessed, or Indonesia...you'll see at this link: Subject: tsunami photos Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 13:36:52 -0500 From: "James Hoffman" To: I appears that those photos may not have been from the tsunami...check the link below. Jim http://www.snopes.com/photos/natural/tsunami.asp Jim Hoffman, Earth Science, Astronomy, Geology Franklin Central HS, 6215 S. Franklin Road, Indianapolis, IN 46259 james.hoffman@ftcsc.k12.in.u -------------- Original message from "Alan Goldstein" : -------------- > I read a story in the newspaper last week that described some preliminary > observations. One 4,000 foot deep channel was now 120 foot deep, and another > 3,800 foot deep channel was 92 feet deep! The guist of the article was that > the whole region was going to have be remapped because the current GPS-based > maps were completely useless! > > Alan > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockincc at inetnebr.com Mon Jan 10 18:23:10 2005 From: rockincc at inetnebr.com (Bud Stolzenburg) Date: Mon Jan 10 18:33:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] songs References: <009d01c4f76a$c261cd40$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <009b01c4f784$7fa1cb30$48c3dece@bud75kzq4u12oq> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanette Wimpee" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 5:18 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] songs > > Yeah, I'm glad I got my 1200 or so mp3's before it all hit the fan at > Napster,so to speak. I don't take the chance now, my virus scanner caught > two viruses (ii?) when I tried one PTP service, and the last one took > forever to connect and then another forever to download anything it did > find. Tain't worth it anymore, which is too bad because there are still a > few more oldies but goodies I'd like to have gotten. > I use Rhapsody now, but some of the stuff I want isn't available. > Jeanette > > > > > There's no such hing as legal free music ;-))) > > Downloading actual hit music has become rather dangerous lately since the > > music industry has developed ways to track the whereabouts of "tagged" > MP3's > > (or so they claim). > > The very old stuff that no longer exists on commercially available records > > may still be found using peer-to-peer networking. One could try BearShare > > www.bearshare.com/nl (remember to turn off the "sharing" opion! It's > illegal > > to spread music over the internet. Downloading is not. At least in Belgium > > and Holland it isn't...) > > > > Should you embark on a quest to find these songs, be sure to have a VERY > > GOOD firewall and anti virus software in place and update you virus > > definitions daily. It's a mine field out there ;-))) > > Also: some ISP 's actually forbid PTP networking because it uses up > massive > > porions of bandwidth. > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel > > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kitty & Bill Heacox > > Verzonden: zondag 9 januari 2005 8:43 > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] songs > > > > > > I can't remember the name of the song or singer; maybe not even have the > > words quite right on this country song, but... > > > > "He got the gold mine, I got the shaft." > > > > Aloha, Kitty > > > > > > At 11:51 AM 1/8/2005, you wrote: > > > > >Hi list, > > > > > >I had the idea to compile me a CD with songs related to mining, miners, > > >pits etc. I know there must be tonnes of old songs about this subject, > but > > >sofar I did not manage to successfully google-up some of old songs. Does > > >anyone know where to find such songs (for free of course ;-) ) > > > > > >cheers, > > >Maurice > > >_______________________________________________ > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 1/6/2005 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Mon Jan 10 19:04:38 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Mon Jan 10 19:04:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquake changes in the sea floor References: <011120050123.7392.41E32A75000F0C2B00001CE0216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <001801c4f78a$49802960$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I question that as well. Another possibility is that if there was some shift in the plate, the relative position by GPS could shift from the edge of the canyon to the flanks. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 8:23 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Earthquake changes in the sea floor > Alan, that's real interesting. (Assuming those figures are correct. It > must have been landslides I would assume, that filled in a "channel" that > way? But filling in a 4000 foot deep channel... really? That's not just > a channel, that's a great canyon between two islands!) > > I've seen two more very interesting new tsunami stories, one is this link > to a NASA story on how the earthquake affected the earth, > > NASA Science News for January 10, 2005 11:00:00 AM > The Dec. 26th Indonesian megathrust earthquake quickened Earth's rotation > and changed our planet's shape, according to calculations done by NASA > scientists. > FULL STORY at > http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/10jan_earthquake.htm?list1086625 > Science@NASA stories are available in Spanish at our sister site, > Ciencia@NASA http://ciencia.nasa.gov/;. > > and the other (help, I can't change the font back to the normal style!) > was researched by a colleague at the USGS Earthquake Center, via another > contact, he found out where that sequence of tsunami photos (that I think > was shown & discussed on this List) was REALLY from, and it's not the 2004 > tsunami--in fact it wasn't a tsunami at all, and it wasn't in Japan as > people had guessed, or Indonesia...you'll see at this link: > > Subject: tsunami photos > Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 13:36:52 -0500 > From: "James Hoffman" > To: > > I appears that those photos may not have been from the tsunami...check the > link below. > Jim > http://www.snopes.com/photos/natural/tsunami.asp > Jim Hoffman, Earth Science, Astronomy, Geology > Franklin Central HS, 6215 S. Franklin Road, Indianapolis, IN 46259 > james.hoffman@ftcsc.k12.in.u > > > -------------- Original message from "Alan Goldstein" > : -------------- > > >> I read a story in the newspaper last week that described some preliminary >> observations. One 4,000 foot deep channel was now 120 foot deep, and >> another >> 3,800 foot deep channel was 92 feet deep! The guist of the article was >> that >> the whole region was going to have be remapped because the current >> GPS-based >> maps were completely useless! >> >> Alan >> > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Mon Jan 10 19:17:45 2005 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn's Mail) Date: Mon Jan 10 19:17:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquake changes in the sea floor References: <011120050123.7392.41E32A75000F0C2B00001CE0216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <008e01c4f78c$1ec75ac0$6601a8c0@GlennWimpee> Great link! This shows the best graphic I've seen so far on the fault line and plate edges. Thanks, Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Earthquake changes in the sea floor > FULL STORY at > http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/10jan_earthquake.htm?list1086625 > Science@NASA stories are available in Spanish at our sister site, > Ciencia@NASA http://ciencia.nasa.gov/;. > From lanny at lrream.com Mon Jan 10 19:59:39 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Mon Jan 10 19:57:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent Zeolites In-Reply-To: <011120050104.16941.41E3260C0007E5180000422D216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <011120050104.16941.41E3260C0007E5180000422D216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <378D2EB6-6385-11D9-94FD-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi Pete, You are welcome. I don't recall if you mentioned the Elk Bend location or not. I've never looked there, and don't have a note on it. Considering that there are miles and miles of outcrops of volcanic rocks along the Salmon there, any specifics that you may recall would be of use. I did look SW of there along Ringle and Cabin creeks (stilbite reported by Art Soregaroli, he couldn't remember where along the several miles of creeks and roads) and found nothing, a little agate, but no zeolites. Huge country with hundreds of square miles of volcanic rock outcrops, wish I could hike it all! Regards, Lanny On Jan 10, 2005, at 5:04 PM, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > Thanks a lot for all that info, Lanny! > > While working out there, I had found some moderately nice zeolites in > the lava cliffs right close to the trailer park where I'd been > staying, at Elk Bend (closer to Salmon than Challis). If I recall, I > probably once mentioned that location to you, years and years ago! > > Pete > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Mon Jan 10 21:12:56 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Mon Jan 10 21:13:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent Pseudomorphs And Associated Minerals From The Summer Storm Mine, Challis, Idaho, Part 2 Message-ID: <41E36058.2000208@tenforward.com> 1/7/2005 Fluorescent Pseudomorphs And Associated Minerals From The Summer Storm Mine, Challis, Idaho, Part 2 By John Cornish j&gcornish@tenforward.com The Summer Storm Mine located near Challis, in Custer County, Idaho has demonstrated over a very short period of time through its specimen production that world class pseudomorphs of quartz after apophyllite with diligence and hard work can be recovered exceptionally. During field work conducted last year, 2004, utilizing both mechanized and hand tool exploitation, specimens were recovered in sizes ranging up to 147 pounds (67 kg)! While still in its earliest stages of development, in addition to the pseudomorphs, the deposit has thus far produced other quartz minerallization as non- pseudomorphic pocket linings and as massive gray- blue colored fortification agate in nodules weighing up to 62 pounds (28 kg). Also found is calcite, forming over several periods, or generations of growth, analcime, and heulandite- Na. Continuing specimen recovery efforts are planned and while perhaps overly optimistic, it is my feeling that the best is truly yet to come from the Summer Storm Mine! As if heralding this hoped for event, a new species has just recently been identified as additionally occurring at the Summer Storm Mine. While in the midst of cleaning this last years, 2004, mining operations specimen production, opal was enthusiastically revealed as ultraviolet illumination was directed towards dozens of laid out specimens as a brilliantly fluorescing partial coatings over previously formed minerals seemingly overwhelming everything else. With this fueling my enthusiasm, I began a comprehensive examination of my Summer Storm Mine specimens. Below are the fluorescent and phosphorescent observations made during this period utilizing both short and long-wave ultraviolet. The mineral descriptions presented in this paper have been arranged in regards to the specimens fluorescent desirability and is not intended to represent a crystallization sequence. I have two ultraviolet lights which I've used, for long-wave ultraviolet illumination, one is a home made 8 watt Sylvania BLB (Black Light Blue), and for short-wave, I have a UV Systems 2000SW. Lanny Ream also assisted in this observation, generously sharing information gleaned from illuminating specimens from his personal collection using a dual wavelength Mineralight UVSL-55 from UV Products. OPAL.... Opal is one of the world's more commonly occurring fluorescing minerals and one of a large group of minerals displaying green fluorescence due to trace amounts of included uranium. Unobserved until this examination, where it occurs, opal covers mineral surfaces in solid and partial coatings which are, or are, nearly invisible to the unaided eye. Opal is included within the other minerals found here which share its same fluorescent coloration, though this color is often subdued and uneven as inclusionary depths vary within the host crystals. Short-wave ultraviolet illumination produces a neon bright characteristic uranium green color startlingly beautiful in specimens. Under long-wave ultraviolet, the effect is much more subdued and a yellowish- green tone is produced. There is no phosphorescence associated with this mineral in those specimens thus far observed. QUARTZ.... Quartz is the planet's most common mineral and yet from the Summer Storm Mine, quartz achieves a singular significance as an outstanding pseudomorph after apophyllite. Historically and world- wide, quartz has played an important role as a replacement mineral pseudomorphing a wide variety of unrelated mineral species. As an occurrence producing quartz replacements after apophyllite, the Summer Storm Mine is unique in the world as no other locality is known which yields specimens of this type. With the introduction of fluorescence, things just keep getting better and better. In an unspeculated percentage of pseudomorph specimens, when illuminated with short-wave ultraviolet, a deep purplish- red fluorescence was observed. There was no fluorescent response observed under long-wave ultraviolet or phosphorescence from either wavelength. When found covering massive yellow to orangey- yellow fluorescing colorless to white calcite, this combination of fluorescent colors creates a wonderful padparadshaish pinky- orange color which seemingly ignites these gorgeous specimens from within. Bright green fluorescing opal may additionally be found a top and within quartz pseudomorph replacements under short-wave ultraviolet. Under long-wave ultraviolet, the effect is much more subdued and a tone more yellowish- green is produced. There is no phosphorescence associated with this mineral. In the few agate specimens checked, fluorescence was found to be most reactionary to short-wave as compared to long-wave ultraviolet. With a stronger, brighter response, short-wave ultraviolet produces a dull greenish- yellow color in Summer Storm Mine agates. In long-wave, the response is duller yet and more yellow colored, both wavelengths produce a subdued phosphorescent version of themselves. CALCITE.... Calcite, sometimes representing several different growth episodes, is present in nearly all specimens to some extent or another from the Summer Storm Mine. Other then opal with its own unique fluorescence, the most common fluorescence seen in specimens examined thus far from the Summer Storm Mine have resulted from calcite. Among these calcites are generations which display their fluorescence wonderfully and then there are those generations which display absolutely no fluorescence whatsoever. As an example, one generation of calcite produces an opaque, pure white, platy, argentian calcite that reacts poorly to dilute hydrochloric acid and which may actually be somewhat dolomitic in nature. No fluorescence of this material has been observed upon illumination with both short and long-wave ultraviolet. Producing fine crystals and intricate coral- like growths, another generation of calcite is a soft yellow to yellow- gold color with a matching fluorescence and phosphorescence under short-wave ultraviolet which is less strongly represented under long-wave illumination. The finest fluorescent calcite from the Summer Storm Mine is colorless to white, massive and underlies the pseudomorphs invisibly until illumination by short-wave ultraviolet creates a bright yellow to orangey- yellow fluorescent response. Under long-wave illumination, this calcite's fluorescence is a soft beautiful pinkish color, this generation of calcite lacks phosphorescence. ANALCIME.... Analcime from the Summer Storm Mine has been reported by Ream (2004) as occurring in crystals ranging up to just over 5/16th of an inch (8 mm) in association with quartz after apophyllite pseudomorphs. No crystals of analcime were recovered during the 2004 mining season and it is only through personal communication with Lanny, utilizing specimens from his collection collected prior to this date, that the following observations can be made. When illuminated by short-wave ultraviolet, analcime was found to fluoresce a wonderful uneven bright green due to near invisible surface coatings and partial inclusion of uranium bearing opal. Long-wave ultraviolet produces a less intense yellowish- green coloration and phosphorescence is absent in both wavelengths. HEULANDITE- Na.... Heulandite-Na from the Summer Storm Mine has not yet been observed displaying a fluorescent reaction to either short or long-wave ultraviolet. With the occurrence of fluorescent and phosphorescent phenomena observed during this study of Summer Storm Mine specimens, a new level of appreciation has been reached regarding the unique qualities of this deposit. It is hoped that this paper proves to be beneficial to collecting enthusiasts. All the very best, John Acknowledgments This paper benefited from conversations with, and observations by, Lanny Ream. Charley Ward and Don Newsome also offered insights and comments. Their contribution is thankfully acknowledged. Reference Ream, L.R. Idaho Minerals: the complete reference and guide to the minerals of Idaho, 2nd edition. Idaho: Museum of North Idaho, 2004 For further reading on the Summer Storm Mine and its minerals see... Moore, T. Mineralogical Record Vol. 33, No. 1. What's New In Minerals and the internet site... http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Mineral%20Show%20Pix/September%20Denver%202004%20Show%20Pix%20Page.htm (Fall Denver 2004 Show Report) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Jan 11 01:06:38 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jan 11 01:06:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent Pseudomorphs And Associated Minerals From The Summer Storm Mine, Challis, Idaho, Part 2 In-Reply-To: <41E36058.2000208@tenforward.com> Message-ID: Keep at it John, were listenin' ;-))) Especially the quartz after apophyllite caught my attention. Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens John and Gloria Cornish Verzonden: dinsdag 11 januari 2005 6:13 Aan: Drizzle Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent Pseudomorphs And Associated Minerals >From The Summer Storm Mine, Challis, Idaho, Part 2 1/7/2005 Fluorescent Pseudomorphs And Associated Minerals From The Summer Storm Mine, Challis, Idaho, Part 2 By John Cornish j&gcornish@tenforward.com The Summer Storm Mine located near Challis, in Custer County, Idaho has demonstrated over a very short period of time through its specimen production that world class pseudomorphs of quartz after apophyllite with diligence and hard work can be recovered exceptionally. During field work conducted last year, 2004, utilizing both mechanized and hand tool exploitation, specimens were recovered in sizes ranging up to 147 pounds (67 kg)! While still in its earliest stages of development, in addition to the pseudomorphs, the deposit has thus far produced other quartz minerallization as non- pseudomorphic pocket linings and as massive gray- blue colored fortification agate in nodules weighing up to 62 pounds (28 kg). Also found is calcite, forming over several periods, or generations of growth, analcime, and heulandite- Na. Continuing specimen recovery efforts are planned and while perhaps overly optimistic, it is my feeling that the best is truly yet to come from the Summer Storm Mine! As if heralding this hoped for event, a new species has just recently been identified as additionally occurring at the Summer Storm Mine. While in the midst of cleaning this last years, 2004, mining operations specimen production, opal was enthusiastically revealed as ultraviolet illumination was directed towards dozens of laid out specimens as a brilliantly fluorescing partial coatings over previously formed minerals seemingly overwhelming everything else. With this fueling my enthusiasm, I began a comprehensive examination of my Summer Storm Mine specimens. Below are the fluorescent and phosphorescent observations made during this period utilizing both short and long-wave ultraviolet. The mineral descriptions presented in this paper have been arranged in regards to the specimens fluorescent desirability and is not intended to represent a crystallization sequence. I have two ultraviolet lights which I've used, for long-wave ultraviolet illumination, one is a home made 8 watt Sylvania BLB (Black Light Blue), and for short-wave, I have a UV Systems 2000SW. Lanny Ream also assisted in this observation, generously sharing information gleaned from illuminating specimens from his personal collection using a dual wavelength Mineralight UVSL-55 from UV Products. OPAL.... Opal is one of the world's more commonly occurring fluorescing minerals and one of a large group of minerals displaying green fluorescence due to trace amounts of included uranium. Unobserved until this examination, where it occurs, opal covers mineral surfaces in solid and partial coatings which are, or are, nearly invisible to the unaided eye. Opal is included within the other minerals found here which share its same fluorescent coloration, though this color is often subdued and uneven as inclusionary depths vary within the host crystals. Short-wave ultraviolet illumination produces a neon bright characteristic uranium green color startlingly beautiful in specimens. Under long-wave ultraviolet, the effect is much more subdued and a yellowish- green tone is produced. There is no phosphorescence associated with this mineral in those specimens thus far observed. QUARTZ.... Quartz is the planet's most common mineral and yet from the Summer Storm Mine, quartz achieves a singular significance as an outstanding pseudomorph after apophyllite. Historically and world- wide, quartz has played an important role as a replacement mineral pseudomorphing a wide variety of unrelated mineral species. As an occurrence producing quartz replacements after apophyllite, the Summer Storm Mine is unique in the world as no other locality is known which yields specimens of this type. With the introduction of fluorescence, things just keep getting better and better. In an unspeculated percentage of pseudomorph specimens, when illuminated with short-wave ultraviolet, a deep purplish- red fluorescence was observed. There was no fluorescent response observed under long-wave ultraviolet or phosphorescence from either wavelength. When found covering massive yellow to orangey- yellow fluorescing colorless to white calcite, this combination of fluorescent colors creates a wonderful padparadshaish pinky- orange color which seemingly ignites these gorgeous specimens from within. Bright green fluorescing opal may additionally be found a top and within quartz pseudomorph replacements under short-wave ultraviolet. Under long-wave ultraviolet, the effect is much more subdued and a tone more yellowish- green is produced. There is no phosphorescence associated with this mineral. In the few agate specimens checked, fluorescence was found to be most reactionary to short-wave as compared to long-wave ultraviolet. With a stronger, brighter response, short-wave ultraviolet produces a dull greenish- yellow color in Summer Storm Mine agates. In long-wave, the response is duller yet and more yellow colored, both wavelengths produce a subdued phosphorescent version of themselves. CALCITE.... Calcite, sometimes representing several different growth episodes, is present in nearly all specimens to some extent or another from the Summer Storm Mine. Other then opal with its own unique fluorescence, the most common fluorescence seen in specimens examined thus far from the Summer Storm Mine have resulted from calcite. Among these calcites are generations which display their fluorescence wonderfully and then there are those generations which display absolutely no fluorescence whatsoever. As an example, one generation of calcite produces an opaque, pure white, platy, argentian calcite that reacts poorly to dilute hydrochloric acid and which may actually be somewhat dolomitic in nature. No fluorescence of this material has been observed upon illumination with both short and long-wave ultraviolet. Producing fine crystals and intricate coral- like growths, another generation of calcite is a soft yellow to yellow- gold color with a matching fluorescence and phosphorescence under short-wave ultraviolet which is less strongly represented under long-wave illumination. The finest fluorescent calcite from the Summer Storm Mine is colorless to white, massive and underlies the pseudomorphs invisibly until illumination by short-wave ultraviolet creates a bright yellow to orangey- yellow fluorescent response. Under long-wave illumination, this calcite's fluorescence is a soft beautiful pinkish color, this generation of calcite lacks phosphorescence. ANALCIME.... Analcime from the Summer Storm Mine has been reported by Ream (2004) as occurring in crystals ranging up to just over 5/16th of an inch (8 mm) in association with quartz after apophyllite pseudomorphs. No crystals of analcime were recovered during the 2004 mining season and it is only through personal communication with Lanny, utilizing specimens from his collection collected prior to this date, that the following observations can be made. When illuminated by short-wave ultraviolet, analcime was found to fluoresce a wonderful uneven bright green due to near invisible surface coatings and partial inclusion of uranium bearing opal. Long-wave ultraviolet produces a less intense yellowish- green coloration and phosphorescence is absent in both wavelengths. HEULANDITE- Na.... Heulandite-Na from the Summer Storm Mine has not yet been observed displaying a fluorescent reaction to either short or long-wave ultraviolet. With the occurrence of fluorescent and phosphorescent phenomena observed during this study of Summer Storm Mine specimens, a new level of appreciation has been reached regarding the unique qualities of this deposit. It is hoped that this paper proves to be beneficial to collecting enthusiasts. All the very best, John Acknowledgments This paper benefited from conversations with, and observations by, Lanny Ream. Charley Ward and Don Newsome also offered insights and comments. Their contribution is thankfully acknowledged. Reference Ream, L.R. Idaho Minerals: the complete reference and guide to the minerals of Idaho, 2nd edition. Idaho: Museum of North Idaho, 2004 For further reading on the Summer Storm Mine and its minerals see... Moore, T. Mineralogical Record Vol. 33, No. 1. What's New In Minerals and the internet site... http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Mineral%20Show%20Pix/September%20Denver%20 2004%20Show%20Pix%20Page.htm (Fall Denver 2004 Show Report) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From magnet at crocoite.com Tue Jan 11 03:23:51 2005 From: magnet at crocoite.com (magnet) Date: Tue Jan 11 03:24:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent Pseudomorphs And Associated Minerals From The Summer Storm Mine, Challis, Idaho, Part 2 Message-ID: <20050111112352.11724.qmail@webmachine101.com> Hi John It's really good to hear about these finds. Are there any photos available that show the fluorescence? Regards Steve --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From BETDAV97 at aol.com Tue Jan 11 10:32:34 2005 From: BETDAV97 at aol.com (BETDAV97@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 11 10:32:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free Triplite Message-ID: <7ED1C03B.402F4509.0063F1E6@aol.com> Hi all, I have four specimens of Triplite, Lord Hill, Stoneham, Maine, for give away. Just pay shipping, I am tired of looking at them. Thanks, Dave Sunset Fossils & Minerals From BNMJEFF at aol.com Tue Jan 11 10:42:08 2005 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 11 10:42:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free Triplite Message-ID: <7b.3c5625b1.2f157800@aol.com> Hi Dave.. I would love to have a sample of Triplite...I am from NE originally..sort of collecting the old stomping grounds,as it were Jeff Ursillo Gem & Mineral Society of the Palm Beaches --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From BETDAV97 at aol.com Tue Jan 11 10:49:38 2005 From: BETDAV97 at aol.com (BETDAV97@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 11 10:49:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free Triplite all gone Message-ID: <589E9A3B.00441709.0063F1E6@aol.com> The triplite has been spoken for, Dave From BETDAV97 at aol.com Tue Jan 11 10:51:23 2005 From: BETDAV97 at aol.com (BETDAV97@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 11 10:51:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free Triplite Message-ID: <1033DB95.7DF63992.0063F1E6@aol.com> Hi Jeff, A fellow from NC, answered quicker than you, I can see if he would like to give one up, as a specimen for you. Thanks, Dave From BNMJEFF at aol.com Tue Jan 11 10:52:50 2005 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 11 10:52:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free Triplite Message-ID: <154.48366a38.2f157a82@aol.com> Thanks , dave --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 11 15:09:50 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Tue Jan 11 15:09:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Microminerals from Sauktown Sales Message-ID: <20050111230950.20649.qmail@web51006.mail.yahoo.com> I've recently completed the (usually) monthly update of the price list. Most of the new additions are from Kentucky and surrounding area. In particular there are some really nice millerites from Halls Gap, KY. See the whole list at www.sauktown.com As always, if you don't want to see these updates, just say so. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales www.sauktown.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Tue Jan 11 15:11:36 2005 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn's Mail) Date: Tue Jan 11 15:11:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free Triplite References: <1033DB95.7DF63992.0063F1E6@aol.com> Message-ID: <007201c4f832$e6083f90$6601a8c0@GlennWimpee> Being new to rockhounding, I'd sure like to have a specimen of Triplite! Please try to get the nice NC fellow to share! Thank you! Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ""Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors"" Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 12:51 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Free Triplite > > Hi Jeff, > A fellow from NC, answered quicker than you, I can see if he would like to give one up, as a specimen for you. Thanks, > Dave > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From BETDAV97 at aol.com Tue Jan 11 17:02:17 2005 From: BETDAV97 at aol.com (BETDAV97@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 11 17:02:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question on Polishing Copal Message-ID: <7B074740.785AB361.0063F1E6@aol.com> I have some specimens of Copal/Amber, that need a polish. Someone previously posted a method that was sucessful by using Colgate toothpaste as I recall. At least it had something to do with toothpaste. Anyway, could you repost the info, either on list or off list. I'm sure some of the new folks may find it interesting also. Thanks, Dave From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Wed Jan 12 04:25:06 2005 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 12 04:25:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question on Polishing Copal Message-ID: <8b.1e85ec46.2f167122@aol.com> I think I posted that method. I've used it very successfully to polish New Jersey Amber specimens where great care must be taken to do minimum damage. 1) Using progressivesly finer wet dry sandpaper, shape, smooth, then prepolish the specimen. Use the paper wet. You can get a set of papers at Pep Boys or any other major auto supply store. Look in the paint and finish section near the bondo. I use 100, 280, 600, 1000, and 1500 grits rinsing well between grades. 2) Now with a dry terrycloth towel or washcloth, use some toothpaste. A small dab worked in semi dry and polish. Then buff with the end of the towel that has no toothpaste on it. Then rinse thoroughly and dry. Try to find the cheapest toothpaste you can without any peroxides in them. Basic Colgate or something else works. Stay away from the clear gel types and stick with white. The white toothpastes have a very fine grade of TiO2 pigment which acts as a great polishing abrasive. You can find the same abrasive in the centers of Oreo cookies but there it is blened out into a fat which is likely to harm your amber. The toothpaste can be used to buff up hazy amber and silver jewelry as well. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From danielz at acmenet.net Wed Jan 12 07:31:24 2005 From: danielz at acmenet.net (Dan Z) Date: Wed Jan 12 07:31:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question on Polishing Copal References: <7B074740.785AB361.0063F1E6@aol.com> Message-ID: <000301c4f8bb$c6ee1100$6401a8c0@M1Garand> I haven't tried this, but a friend says he polishes copal using Brasso. -dan z- - - Protect your civil rights! Let the politicians know how you feel. Join or donate to the NRA today! http://membership.nrahq.org/default.asp?campaignid=XR014887 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: 01/11/2005 8:02 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Question on Polishing Copal > > I have some specimens of Copal/Amber, that need a polish. Someone previously posted a method that was sucessful by using Colgate toothpaste as I recall. At least it had something to do with toothpaste. Anyway, could you repost the info, either on list or off list. I'm sure some of the new folks may find it interesting also. > Thanks, > Dave > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From corndogs at charter.net Wed Jan 12 07:43:49 2005 From: corndogs at charter.net (Brenda LaCroix) Date: Wed Jan 12 07:43:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Official Announcement and some ADMIN help :-) Message-ID: <008901c4f8bd$830cad50$d5b47144@dit03r92qai5fx> I have an announcement to make.....a very exciting one for me!!! As of January 3, 2005, I have become officially partnered with Will Heierman in The Corundum Project :-) You can check out the website to see what the focus of The Project is, but basically we hope to put together the definitive Collection of Corundum from around the World and find a permanent home for it. Plus, research and scientific and historical preservation of the amazing mineral. Since most of the stuff used in manufacturing is now produced in a labratory instead of in the ground naturally, keeping the historical past of corundum use is important, too. Plus, we all know the beautiful gems of the ruby and the sapphire used in jewelry....wouldn't it be a shame if all of the natural stuff disappeared and we were only left with the stuff made in a lab?? I think that would be awfully sad myself!! I posted an email asking anyone who has done anykind of research into corundum to contact me....and this is why :-) What was so exciting to me was that I heard from quite a few people telling me to contact Will - guess that means I am in the right company, huh?!?!?! So, my new ID and email address is CorunDogs :-) Aaron - I need to change my subscription email address - can you direct me in the right direction in order to do that....please??? :-) Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, Nebraska Dedicated to helping abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a person.....to a Rescue Dog, you are the World!!! www.nationwidebostonrescue.org www.corunduminium.com - Ask me about The Corundum Project --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From afox at drizzle.com Wed Jan 12 07:52:32 2005 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Wed Jan 12 07:52:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Official Announcement and some ADMIN help :-) In-Reply-To: <008901c4f8bd$830cad50$d5b47144@dit03r92qai5fx> Message-ID: > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds See the above URL. If you have problems, contact me directly off list. Tack! a. -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Wed Jan 12 08:39:03 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Wed Jan 12 08:39:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent Conclusions, Part 3 and an Announcement Message-ID: <41E552A7.6030608@tenforward.com> 1/7/2005 Fluorescent Conclusions; The Rat's Nest and The Summer Storm Mines, Challis, Idaho, Part 3 By John Cornish j&gcornish@tenforward.com An exercise of observation or a joyous journey of discovery, I suppose this smacks a bit of both scenarios. Over the last several days, I have honestly thrilled at the variations of fluorescence displayed by specimens from both The Rat's Nest and The Summer Storm Mines. While not likely destined to share the same adoration as seen from fluorescent enthusiasts when viewing specimens from or discussing some of our planet's finest fluorescent deposits, these mines certainly deserve their moment in the limelight. Known world localities producing fluorescing heulandite-Ca, mordenite and stilbite are rare and examples of these species have not been reported overly in the literature. Prior to this, fluorescing pseudomorphs of quartz after apophyllite were unknown. Teaming with a fascinatingly diverse geology and mineralogy, Idaho can now add this information to its still unfolding history. As a personal observation, I was fascinated with the similarities of these two deposits with regard to their fluorescence and am as equally fascinated with the prospects of further mining and the potential of new discoveries yet to be made. While I do not anticipate that the species lists of either deposit will expand with any significance, I do anticipate further surprises. These are active private properties and as such, one never knows what the next swing of the bucket or pry of the bar may reveal! All the very best everyone. Sincerely, John TUCSON 2005 I would like to invite everyone to attend the upcoming Arizona Mineral & Fossil Show beginning at the end of January and running through mid- February at the Inn Suites Hotel. I will have specimens from both The Rat's Nest and The Summer Storm Mines available in my room, #186, from saturday, January 29th through sunday, February 13th. Additionally, from Thursday, February 10th - Sunday the 13th, I'll present our very first displays at the Tucson Gem and Mineral Society's Show in the Tucson Convention Center. I'll be exhibiting displays from both The Rat's Nest and from The Summer Storm Mine containing examples of specimens as described in the preceding two papers. While not displayed in ultraviolet, many of the specimens on display will readily fluoresce were they to be put under fluorescent illumination. Featured within The Summer Storm Mine display will be the 147 pound (67 kg) quartz after apophyllite pseudomorph pocket mentioned in the 2nd, Summer Storm Mine paper. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From LarryRush at worldnet.att.net Wed Jan 12 11:51:35 2005 From: LarryRush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Wed Jan 12 11:51:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dinosaur Tracks Message-ID: <000b01c4f8e0$3d24c840$05924c0c@fekib> The cold, snowy, icy winter has kept me inside lately, and it has driven me back to the garage to continue to root out many old, dusty boxes of self-collected specimens which have accumulated over the past 40 years. One of the more interesting things I uncovered is a slab of Connecticut Triassic sandstone which shows the imprints of 3 separate dinosaur species. These are of the small, agile animals which roamed the mud flats and swampy waters of the then inland, coastal saltwater flats of the graben which existed between the major faults of the Connecticut Valley. They are similar to the masses of tracks now covered and protected by the Dinosaur State Museum building at Rocky Hill (highly recommended!). I have posted this slab on my web site and offered it for sale. Larry Rush www.ConnRoxMinerals.com www.mineralstotrade.homestead.com "Noel Coward thought work was more fun than play, but he never, ever worked in the mines" Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.3 - Release Date: 12/21/04 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Wed Jan 12 13:49:52 2005 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Wed Jan 12 13:43:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free Triplite References: <1033DB95.7DF63992.0063F1E6@aol.com> <007201c4f832$e6083f90$6601a8c0@GlennWimpee> Message-ID: <002a01c4f8f0$a6c7adc0$7b7fa118@feldsparflash> Please excuse off subject reply, I have been having difficulty posting to the list. First question: I am trying to locate Diamond Dan Publications. Unfortunately Diamond Dan's web site is not active nor is his e-mail address. I would appreciate assistance. Our club would like to review his junior rockhound program. Carolyn Reynard Mid-Hudson Valley Gem & Mineral Society Second Question: How does one post to the list? I have been doing rockhounds@drizzle.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn's Mail" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Free Triplite > Being new to rockhounding, I'd sure like to have a specimen of Triplite! > > Please try to get the nice NC fellow to share! > > Thank you! > Glenn > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: ""Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors"" > > Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 12:51 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Free Triplite > > > > > > Hi Jeff, > > A fellow from NC, answered quicker than you, I can see if he would like > to give one up, as a specimen for you. Thanks, > > Dave > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From nate.gullimer at gmail.com Wed Jan 12 15:37:24 2005 From: nate.gullimer at gmail.com (Nate Gullimer) Date: Wed Jan 12 15:37:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Member Message-ID: <2f16ceba0501121537783ccca@mail.gmail.com> Hi all! I am new to this list and wanted to say hello. My name is Nate and I have been a rockhound for close to 20 years. I wish I had gotten "online" sooner, as this is a great resource. I'm very impressed and look forward to sharing ideas and experiences with many of you. From pjmodreski at att.net Wed Jan 12 16:13:06 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Wed Jan 12 16:13:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free Triplite Message-ID: <011320050013.10133.41E5BD120005C11500002795215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Carolyn, I'm sure someone will explain how to post to this list (you have to send a "subscribe" message to it first). Have you tried using that address line that appears at the bottom of these messages, to subscribe? Here's what I have for Darryl Powell --is it the same as you've been trying to access? Darryl Powell Diamond Dan Productions P.O Box 143 Manchester, NY 14504 716-289-4936 ddan@eznet.net http://home.eznet.net/~ddan/index.htm (this info is from the year 2000; perhaps he changed and isn't on "eznet" any more) Pete Modreski -------------- Original message from "Carolyn Reynard" : -------------- > Please excuse off subject reply, I have been having difficulty posting to > the list. > First question: > I am trying to locate Diamond Dan Publications. Unfortunately Diamond Dan's > web site is not active nor is his e-mail address. I would appreciate > assistance. Our club would like to review his junior rockhound program. > Carolyn Reynard > Mid-Hudson Valley Gem & Mineral Society > Second Question: How does one post to the list? I have been doing > rockhounds@drizzle.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Glenn's Mail" > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Wed Jan 12 17:35:23 2005 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Wed Jan 12 17:28:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Posting to the List Message-ID: <001801c4f910$2722edd0$7b7fa118@feldsparflash> Thank you Pete for the information on Diamond Dan and list posting! Carolyn Reynard --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dpowell13 at Rochester.rr.com Wed Jan 12 18:01:29 2005 From: dpowell13 at Rochester.rr.com (Darryl Powell) Date: Wed Jan 12 18:02:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Diamond Dan Publications: Thanks Pete Message-ID: <004e01c4f913$cdcc4e30$d5144342@6663r01> Dear List, Thank you, Pete M., for giving Carolyn my information. Due to uncontrollable spam, and my decision to spend the extra penny or two and get high speed internet connection, the email for Diamond Dan Publications has changed. All other info is the same: Darryl Powell P.O. Box 143 Manchester, New York 14504 585-289-4936 diamonddan@rochester.rr.com Apologies to all who may find this boring at best. Happy New Year and best wishes for successful collecting and meeting bunches of great people along the way! Peace. Darryl Powell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From geenet2 at mchsi.com Wed Jan 12 18:11:26 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Wed Jan 12 18:12:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: rocks and mineral in Thailand References: <20050111230950.20649.qmail@web51006.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005b01c4f915$30732b20$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> My daughter is currently in Thailand with a medical student group doing clinicals in Northern Thailand (University of Utah outreach project thingy). Hopefully she will come across a rockshop over there, where she can get something interesting to bring home to me. Anyone familiar with that area and what she could get? I don't think she'll have to time to do any "rockhounding" other than stopping at a shop. Are there good prices when you buy overseas? Jeanette And yes, if anyone wants to know, they may be sent to some of the tsunami areas if they can get it coordinated. From folmstead at rcn.com Wed Jan 12 18:31:58 2005 From: folmstead at rcn.com (Fred Olmstead) Date: Wed Jan 12 18:13:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] window quartz / amethyst In-Reply-To: <2f16ceba0501121537783ccca@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f16ceba0501121537783ccca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <41E5DD9E.7070701@rcn.com> Hi guys and gals what can you tell me about -- window quartz and -- window amethyst.... ['made' in China??] Thank you GeorgiaO > > > From volgems at icx.net Wed Jan 12 18:48:05 2005 From: volgems at icx.net (John Teague) Date: Wed Jan 12 18:48:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] window quartz / amethyst Message-ID: <1097442.1105584485657.JavaMail.root@wamui04.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Georgia, If you're talking about the egg to large fist size "windows", they are stream worn crystals or crystal portions. A diamond saw is then used to cut a "window". This "window" is then polished, but leaving the rest of the specimen frosted (from being stream worn). Some are quite interesting/impressive depending on the clarity of the specimen or the inclusions that the specimen may have. I've sold a good number of them over the last few years. Most are labeled as being from Brazil. They are usually available in citrine, amethyst, and smoky as well as clear quartz. Hope this is what you are talking about! John Teague Volunteer Gems Knoxville, Tennessee -----Original Message----- From: Fred Olmstead Sent: Jan 12, 2005 9:31 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] window quartz / amethyst Hi guys and gals what can you tell me about -- window quartz and -- window amethyst.... ['made' in China??] Thank you GeorgiaO > > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Wed Jan 12 19:26:18 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Wed Jan 12 19:26:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent Pseudomorphs And Associated Minerals From The Summer Storm Mine, Challis, Idaho, Part 2 In-Reply-To: <20050111112352.11724.qmail@webmachine101.com> References: <20050111112352.11724.qmail@webmachine101.com> Message-ID: <41E5EA5A.4070902@tenforward.com> Hi Steve, Not yet. Thanks for writing though. All the very best, John magnet wrote: >Hi John > >It's really good to hear about these finds. Are there any photos available that show the fluorescence? > >Regards >Steve > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From tangojuli at yahoo.com Thu Jan 13 07:37:54 2005 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Thu Jan 13 07:37:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Desert Access--an issue for rockhounds and others In-Reply-To: <200501120201.j0C21pHp029703@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20050113153754.77665.qmail@web60808.mail.yahoo.com> Regarding the latest desert access judgement in favor of the environmental extremists: Fellow rockhounds--this issue is a very important one to us. Over the years, access nationwide to many collecting spots has declined, often owing to liability fears and private land issues. The Mojave and other American deserts are, in many respects, the last frontier for us to explore the wonders of geology, birdwatching and rock collecting to name but a few of the popular activities. I wrote a series of articles back in 2001 and 2002 that really drew me into this little drama. There is much more here than meets the eye, and Glenn is right, we really need to inform ourselves. Even if you are not political, this issue does boil down to basic fundamentals we Americans hold dear. Back when the Mojave Desert Plan was being revised a few years ago, the CBD and Sierra Club banded together with another organization of government employees seeking an injunction to protect various flora and fauna in the mojave. This was part of a well-funded broader plan limit access to off road vehicles by these environmental groups. Around this time, a monograph was put out by the Wilderness Coalition citing some very dubious science that was criticized sharply by the Desert Advisory Committee, even by some of the environmentalists on that committee. (This committee is made up of a variety of veiwpoints appointed by the Secretary of the Interior). The monograph, "off-road to ruin", seemed to be a rallying cry to some environmentalists, decrying the damage done in the desert by off road use. In all the rhetoric, the distinction between the designated (sacrifice) off road places like Glamis Dunes and Jawbone Canyon recreational area was lost, and off-road travel in general seemed to become a target of the environmentalists. However, the "science" of this little book lacked validity or reliability, and was largely dismissed by the committee at a hearing a couple years ago after hearing testimony by a variety of "scientists" and "experts". But it did serve to stoke the fires of these groups' constituencies who probably weren't aware of it's methodological shortcomings. The coalition of environmentalists is much better organized and better funded than the coalition supporting multiple use (see Multiple Use Coalition online). They are well-funded, as I understand it, in part by celebrity money. The environmental coalition found a way to subvert the public-input process mandated by NEPA, by getting a federal injunction. In the initial settlement a couple years ago, someone leaked court documents where the judge asked the BLM representative WHOSE SIDE HE WAS REALLY REPRESENTING--because it wasn't the people. (I am paraphrasing here as I haven't looked at this stuff since 01-02). According to these documents, the BLM offered up more than the CBD coalition had filed for in the settlement (this included a few collecting localities east of hwy 15 south of Barstow). They proposed closing off thousands of miles of desert roads as well, using poorly researched plans based on very outdated satellite photos according to USGS guys in Denver. The guy in charge of the West Mojave Plan at the time and involved in the lawsuit told me in an interview they conceded (and gave away the store) to forestall future demands of the CBD. Others on the opposing side pointed to BLM representatives being card-carrying Sierra Club members (inplying the negotiators were--but I couldn't corroborate this). While many BLM and land management people do belong to these types of organizations, I'm not sure that is an indictment. I was also told by a BLM geologist that the CBD representative mentioned in that press release was also a former BLM employee and that many BLM employees were sympathetic to the CBD position. As Glenn and others suggested in their emails to the list--this issue is hugely complex but I would comment that it isn't a conspiracy. But it is politics. People pushing their own agendas. And, we rockhounds have one too--access to rock collecting places, to exploring the naked geology in the desert, to camping and experiencing the peace of the desert. Should the desert be protected? Absolutely. But also within reason, (Barbara's "balanced approach") and thoughtfully taking into consideration all the needs of many groups of this huge public land. The desert tortoise suffers from far more serious maladies than the off-roaders. Environmentalist biologists will concede that the herpes virus is a far greater threat than off-road access or the sacrifice sites. It is undeniable that human activies have indirectly contributed to the demise of the desert tortoise--herpes was supposedly unleased because of loosed pet tortoises who had contracted the malady from other household pets, and the freakishly intelligent ravens have multiplied because of the human garbage all over the cities and towns in the desert and outlying areas; ravens think baby tortoises are caviar, contributing significantly to the tortoise demise. But, this latest ruling is bizarrely misguided, because even biologists will tell you as can anyone who has been out there--tortoises DON'T live or burrow in the washes or they wouldn't have survived this long! So, it isnt off road use that is causing tortoise decline. The tortoise is a red herring in this story; it's broad access to the desert that is being targeted here. On a personal level, it probably isn't too hard to see that I love the desert with a passion, so admit I'm vested. Before getting drawn into all this, I was a bleeding heart tree hugger and proud of the appellation. I am much more cautious now about this identification. I built a nature trail for a desert resort when I lived out there, and have every book on the flora and fauna in the mojave, took thousands of fascinated pictures of the wonders of that amazing biodiversity. I have been developing a comprehensive website on all things mojave. I cringe whenever I have to runover a shrub or step on a plant in the desert. So, I really appreciate the conservation issues that are near and dear to BLM professionals and the various environmental organizations. The damage done at the sacrifice spots to the flora there is kinda glaring, but that is why those activities were restricted to those designated areas--to protect other areas from such heavy intensive use. This accounts for less than a half percent of total desert acreage! But, there needs to be better compromise on the needs of all parties and the protection of the desert for future generations, instead of the All Or Nothing approach. As one guy, Jim B., the former chair of the California Off Highway Vehicle funds, remarked, the conflict may reflect a type of bigotry--do the environmental groups who seek to close access to the desert in their many legal initiatives, think the quality of their experience of the desert is greater than the off-roaders/multiple use groups (rockhounds, etc) whose access they seek to limit? Looking at the Wilderness Coalition peice (in which CBD people are thanked in the preface)--they want to preserve the desert for "spiritual renewal", so perhaps there is some basis for Jim's comment. Rockhounds, cattlemen, miners, birders, off-roaders -- Folks, legislators provided a mechanism for your voices to be heard through the NEPA (national environmental protection act)process --to participate in the public process on the issues related to the public lands. The issues aren't black and white, for sure. The people involved and their motivations are as complex and contradictory as are the motivations of any one of us. Keep your eyes peeled for these NEPA hearings and open houses and gather your friends, colleagues and fellow collectors and attend, speak up, and bring the coordinates of your collecting spots that you want to keep access to. Inform yourselves on the issues and when the federal register bulletins come down with the necessary 90 day comment period--COMMENT! Each one of the public comments has to be publically responded to! And many with the same message will carry weight. This is one of the coolest thing about the country we live in--we EXPECT our voices to be heard and heeded, and we have created processes like this so that we CAN be heard and be involved in the disposition of public lands. But only if you step up. Only if we all step up. I'm stepping down from my soapbox now, and I hope this is helpful in understanding some of the complexities. --tangojuli LA-Rocks@yahoogroups.com wrote: 1-6 Judge Stops Off Road Activity Suposedly To Protect Turtles A FEDERAL JUDGE IN SAN FRANCISCO HAS ORDERED THE BLM TO BAN ALL OFF ROAD VEHICLES FROM MORE THAN HALF A MILLION ACRES OF DESERT, INCLUDING SOME IN THE LOCAL AREA TO PROTECT THE DESERT TORTOISE. THE BAN AFFECTS PORTIONS OF TWO LARGE DESERT WILDLIFE AREAS IN RIVERSIDE, SAN BERNARDINO AND IMPERIAL COUNTIES AND IS VERY POPULAR WITH THE OFF ROADERS. BLM OFFICIALS SAY THE BAN WILL BE TEMPORARY, LASTING ONLY UNTIL A NEW SCIENTIFIC REPORT ON THE TORTOISE IS RELEASED IN ABOUT 6 WEEKS, BUT THAT WILL EFFECTIVELY BLOCK THE OFF ROADERS DURING THE MOST POPULAR SEASON FOR DRIVING ON THE DESERT. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From bonnie at bonnierannald.com Mon Jan 10 16:06:28 2005 From: bonnie at bonnierannald.com (Bonnie Rannald) Date: Thu Jan 13 08:57:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhound Club Message-ID: <005a01c4f771$65bc7070$2030e4cf@photogra80luks> Hello, I am interested in forming a Rockhounding event at Walker Lake, Nevada. My name is Bonnie Rannald and I am president of the Walker Lake Interpretive Association. If you can give me some direction, I will be most appreciative. Thank you, Bonnie Rannald http://www.walkerlakenv.org contact@walkerlakenv.org No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.10 - Release Date: 1/10/2005 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From givogel at puc.cl Wed Jan 12 17:09:24 2005 From: givogel at puc.cl (German Ignacio Vogel Ruiz) Date: Thu Jan 13 08:57:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] More people for whom minerals were named Message-ID: <20050113010925.27862.qmail@smtp.puc.cl> Hello. I'm not quite sure who am I writing to or if this email is still being used. The thing is that I was looking on the internet some information about a mineral that was named after my grandfather (Carlos Ruiz), thanks to an american geologist called George Ericksen, carlosruizite I think is the translation. Anyway, I found this webpage (http://lists.drizzle.com/pipermail/rockhounds/2002-September/001552.html) containing your email and in which someone asked for help on identifying some of the persons that were on a list (people who have minerals named for them). If still needed, I can provide you all the information you want about my grandfather: my mother's got some folders, though I don't think you need that much information, hehe. Even though you don't need the information I would apreciate it if you could mail me back to know if, at least, you received this one. Germ?n Vogel Ruiz From herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be Thu Jan 13 11:24:51 2005 From: herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be (herwig pelckmans) Date: Thu Jan 13 11:28:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] in search of Roger Merk (San Diego, CA) References: <20050113010925.27862.qmail@smtp.puc.cl> Message-ID: <009d01c4f9a5$8e0aa980$3c9d76d5@telenet.be> Hi, I've been trying to contact Roger Merk from San Diego by email, but don't get any replies. Maybe he changed his email address. I used his @cox.net address ... does anyone know of a new/other email address? Does anyone know if he is doing fine? Sure hope so. Sincerely, Herwig from Belgium Herwig Pelckmans Worldwide Mineral Collector Cardijnstraat 12 B-3530 Helchteren Belgium Europe http://www.xlizd.com From danielz at acmenet.net Thu Jan 13 12:26:11 2005 From: danielz at acmenet.net (Dan Z) Date: Thu Jan 13 12:26:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Help with unknown minerals please? Message-ID: <000501c4f9ae$20091b70$6401a8c0@M1Garand> I just came across a couple of things in a box from an old private collection. A 100kbyte picture is at http://www.manyfacets.com/unknown.jpg The top two pieces actually appear much more yellowish than in this picture. Field of view of the picture is 4 inches. These pieces are fully transparent, very light (low specific gravity), and appear to have been soaked or coated with a heavy oil. The lower piece appears to be small amethyst crystals, but what is unusual is the serpentine matrix, visible at the upper right, and the green piece in the center of the amethyst, which appears to be a prehnite nodule just like the ones from Turkey. But where would these three minerals have occurred together like this? -dan z- From dmschmidt at sprint.ca Thu Jan 13 12:36:50 2005 From: dmschmidt at sprint.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Thu Jan 13 12:36:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Help with unknown minerals please? References: <000501c4f9ae$20091b70$6401a8c0@M1Garand> Message-ID: <83c401c4f9af$9c717210$6402a8c0@remains> it may be Australian. Ask Gus on the list. He has seen amethyst and prehnite from Australia more than anyone else I know...although I am not sure if he has seen them occur together like this. Gus...are you out there? Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Z" To: "Rockhound list danielz frm" ; "Rocks-Fossils list (egroups)" Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 1:26 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Help with unknown minerals please? >I just came across a couple of things in a box from an old private > collection. A 100kbyte picture is at http://www.manyfacets.com/unknown.jpg > > The top two pieces actually appear much more yellowish than in this > picture. > Field of view of the picture is 4 inches. These pieces are fully > transparent, very light (low specific gravity), and appear to have been > soaked or coated with a heavy oil. > > The lower piece appears to be small amethyst crystals, but what is unusual > is the serpentine matrix, visible at the upper right, and the green piece > in > the center of the amethyst, which appears to be a prehnite nodule just > like > the ones from Turkey. But where would these three minerals have occurred > together like this? > > -dan z- > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From morningstar at att.net Thu Jan 13 12:38:15 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Thu Jan 13 12:38:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Help with unknown minerals please? Message-ID: <011320052038.11135.41E6DC36000E838500002B7F21603759649D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Hi Dan, The bottom piece looks very much like a trap rock specimen from northern NJ. It's hard to tell from the photo. Prehnite is common from that area, and though amethyst is not common, it is not exactly rare. I have a similar specimen of larger size but lesser quality. I don't know if this combination occurs elsewhere in the world. The top ones--hmm. Obviously well-developed crystals; and the main reason anyone soaks a crystal in oil is because it is a hygroscopic evaporite. Are you willing to crunch a piece of one of them, and in addition, to put some in water? Don't think of doing this, of course, unless no one else can sight-ID them for you. Even then, you won't know what species you have, but you will have narrowed it down considerably. Hope this helps, Don -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Dan Z" > I just came across a couple of things in a box from an old private > collection. A 100kbyte picture is at http://www.manyfacets.com/unknown.jpg > > The top two pieces actually appear much more yellowish than in this picture. > Field of view of the picture is 4 inches. These pieces are fully > transparent, very light (low specific gravity), and appear to have been > soaked or coated with a heavy oil. > > The lower piece appears to be small amethyst crystals, but what is unusual > is the serpentine matrix, visible at the upper right, and the green piece in > the center of the amethyst, which appears to be a prehnite nodule just like > the ones from Turkey. But where would these three minerals have occurred > together like this? > > -dan z- > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Jan 13 15:07:47 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Jan 13 15:07:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Help with unknown minerals please? In-Reply-To: <000501c4f9ae$20091b70$6401a8c0@M1Garand> Message-ID: Hi Dan, tried to look at your picture but all I got was: >You are: 84.194.90.21 which is not true... I'm #15513 (grin grin) followed by: >Too much SPAM and FRAUD from your address block >or you were trying to directly read a subdirectory that does not allow direct access. >ACCESS DENIED Now I'm sad (but not really)... what happened? Axel Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322) 403 (none) -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Dan Z Verzonden: donderdag 13 januari 2005 21:26 Aan: Rockhound list danielz frm; Rocks-Fossils list (egroups) Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Help with unknown minerals please? I just came across a couple of things in a box from an old private collection. A 100kbyte picture is at http://www.manyfacets.com/unknown.jpg The top two pieces actually appear much more yellowish than in this picture. Field of view of the picture is 4 inches. These pieces are fully transparent, very light (low specific gravity), and appear to have been soaked or coated with a heavy oil. The lower piece appears to be small amethyst crystals, but what is unusual is the serpentine matrix, visible at the upper right, and the green piece in the center of the amethyst, which appears to be a prehnite nodule just like the ones from Turkey. But where would these three minerals have occurred together like this? -dan z- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Thu Jan 13 15:25:47 2005 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Jan 13 15:25:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Help with Unknown - From Mars! In-Reply-To: <41E552A7.6030608@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <200501132325.j0DNPrCW030042@bubbleator.drizzle.com> New "unknown" on Mars! This should be on one line: http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/n/345/1N158809950EFF40DIP1912R0 M1.HTML Article in MSNBC: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6822808/ Regards, GcB From kqhayes at chartermi.net Thu Jan 13 16:16:30 2005 From: kqhayes at chartermi.net (kqhayes@chartermi.net) Date: Thu Jan 13 16:16:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Help with unknown minerals please? Message-ID: <3k7897$lmqokq@mxip12a.cluster1.charter.net> I saw some nice specimens of prehnite from the Brandberg Namibia amethyst site a few years back at Tucson. Sooo... I suspect that this combination can be found in several locales. These do not look like the habits of Prehnite I saw from Brandberg though. Regards, Keith > > From: morningstar@att.net > Date: 2005/01/13 Thu PM 08:38:15 GMT > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > CC: rocksandfossils@yahoogroups.com, qoyq-xwxa@spamex.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Help with unknown minerals please? > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) null --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Jan 13 18:18:36 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Jan 13 18:15:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Help with Unknown - From Mars! References: <200501132325.j0DNPrCW030042@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <41E72B42.71B2@Tomaszewski.net> Gary Brown wrote: > > New "unknown" on Mars! > > This should be on one line: > > http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/n/345/1N158809950EFF40DIP1912R0 > M1.HTML > > Article in MSNBC: > > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6822808/ > > Regards, > GcB Think there is any chance the first (possible/probable) meteorite found on Mars is an 'Earth' type meteorite? From morningstar at att.net Thu Jan 13 19:57:31 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Thu Jan 13 19:55:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] John Cianciulli, mineral museum curator, passed away In-Reply-To: <41E552A7.6030608@tenforward.com> References: <41E552A7.6030608@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <41E7432B.9010505@att.net> Group, It is my sad task to report the passing of yet another great contributor to the mineral world. John Cianculli passed this afternoon at age 55. He was the curator of the Franklin (NJ) Mineral Museum and was a great "mover and shaker" who facilitated the description of several species that were new to the locality. This was part of the (usually) friendly competition with Mont-Saint Hilaire for the title of most species from one locality. His shoes will be very difficult if not impossible to fill, for he had a knowledge of the local minerals surpassed perhaps only by Drs. Pete Dunn and Paul Moore. As I always say, his contributions were greater than I can describe and a full eulogy should fall to others, but most of the people who knew him well are not list members. The mineral CIANCIULLIITE was named in his honor. As Mel Albright would have said, call or hug someone you love today. Too many have passed suddenly in the last twelve months. Regards, Don J. Halterman, Jr. From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Jan 13 20:22:13 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Jan 13 20:23:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unique "rock" found on Mars References: <20050113010925.27862.qmail@smtp.puc.cl> <009d01c4f9a5$8e0aa980$3c9d76d5@telenet.be> Message-ID: <003701c4f9f0$a031c4e0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> NASA's Opportunity Mars rover has come across an interesting object -- perhaps a meteorite sitting out in the open at Meridiani Planum. Initial data taken by the robot's Mini-Thermal Emission Spectrometer (Mini-TES) is suggestive that the odd-looking "rock" is made of metal. Link to article: http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/mars_object_050113.html From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Thu Jan 13 20:28:06 2005 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Jan 13 20:28:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] John Cianciulli, mineral museum curator, passed away In-Reply-To: <41E7432B.9010505@att.net> Message-ID: <200501140428.j0E4SCf0017242@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Sad news, indeed. I've enjoyed the many times I've visited John on my trips to New Jersey. His nest of an office was always a treasure box of amazing specimens, and there almost always was a crowd of fluorescent "nuts" talking about some arcane mineral. I always came away knowing more than when I went in... He'll be missed. Gary Brown Catspaw Minerals > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Don H > Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 9:58 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: [Rockhounds] John Cianciulli, mineral museum > curator, passed away > > > Group, > > It is my sad task to report the passing of yet another great > contributor > to the mineral world. John Cianculli passed this afternoon > at age 55. .... From tam2819 at cox.net Thu Jan 13 21:18:19 2005 From: tam2819 at cox.net (T.A.Masters) Date: Thu Jan 13 21:18:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sad Losses References: <41E552A7.6030608@tenforward.com> <41E7432B.9010505@att.net> Message-ID: <41E7561B.6050409@cox.net> It is with great sadness that I relay a message about the passing of John Peck. John Peck was a long time San Diego area Rock and Mineral member, serving in every position including President and Newsletter Editor of the Islanders. John also formed the J.A.D.E. Society. He was involved in every phase of Rock and Minerals a master faceter, lapidarian, researcher, instructor, Field Trip leader. John had a passion for Gifts of Mother Earth. He was a deeply religious man, always suggesting we respect the Earth. This is a sad personal loss for me as I truly enjoyed John and gained great knowledge from him. Terrie Masters From danielz at acmenet.net Fri Jan 14 07:12:49 2005 From: danielz at acmenet.net (Dan Z) Date: Fri Jan 14 07:13:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Help with unknown minerals please? (Access Denied error) References: Message-ID: <000301c4fa4b$82f80500$6401a8c0@M1Garand> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" > >Too much SPAM and FRAUD from your address block > >or you were trying to directly read a subdirectory that does not allow > direct access. > > >ACCESS DENIED > > Now I'm sad (but not really)... what happened? > Hi Axel, Reports on web site usage from my ISP show that certain blocks of IP addresses, primarily in Asia and Europe, generate an inordinate amount of traffic from robot email address harvesters. Also, there have been quite a few instances of web pages, primarily in Asia, linking to my pictures and using them as their own. So I have blocked those ranges from access completely. My service provider also will occasionally block address groups temporarily if they detect large quantities of spam over a short period of time. Of course there are an awful lot of nice people in those address ranges, also. But I rarely do business outside the US. If you, or anyone else having this problem, would like to see the picture, I'll be happy to send it to you in an email. -dan- From rik.dillen at skynet.be Fri Jan 14 07:23:25 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Fri Jan 14 07:23:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Help with unknown minerals please? (Access Deniederror) In-Reply-To: <000301c4fa4b$82f80500$6401a8c0@M1Garand> Message-ID: <200501141523.j0EFNRoP013524@outmx002.isp.belgacom.be> Strangely enough, while yesterday I had the problem, today I could access the image without problem. Greetings, Rik -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Dan Z Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 4:13 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Help with unknown minerals please? (Access Deniederror) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" > >Too much SPAM and FRAUD from your address block > >or you were trying to directly read a subdirectory that does not allow > direct access. > > >ACCESS DENIED > > Now I'm sad (but not really)... what happened? > Hi Axel, Reports on web site usage from my ISP show that certain blocks of IP addresses, primarily in Asia and Europe, generate an inordinate amount of traffic from robot email address harvesters. Also, there have been quite a few instances of web pages, primarily in Asia, linking to my pictures and using them as their own. So I have blocked those ranges from access completely. My service provider also will occasionally block address groups temporarily if they detect large quantities of spam over a short period of time. Of course there are an awful lot of nice people in those address ranges, also. But I rarely do business outside the US. If you, or anyone else having this problem, would like to see the picture, I'll be happy to send it to you in an email. -dan- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Jan 14 07:24:54 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Jan 14 07:25:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Help with unknown minerals please? (Access Deniederror) In-Reply-To: <000301c4fa4b$82f80500$6401a8c0@M1Garand> Message-ID: Hello Dan, Yes, I'm nice ;-)))) Maybe you can send me the pic off-list? I have broadband (the real McCoy...) so don't be shy about size. Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Dan Z Verzonden: vrijdag 14 januari 2005 16:13 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Help with unknown minerals please? (Access Deniederror) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" > >Too much SPAM and FRAUD from your address block > >or you were trying to directly read a subdirectory that does not allow > direct access. > > >ACCESS DENIED > > Now I'm sad (but not really)... what happened? > Hi Axel, Reports on web site usage from my ISP show that certain blocks of IP addresses, primarily in Asia and Europe, generate an inordinate amount of traffic from robot email address harvesters. Also, there have been quite a few instances of web pages, primarily in Asia, linking to my pictures and using them as their own. So I have blocked those ranges from access completely. My service provider also will occasionally block address groups temporarily if they detect large quantities of spam over a short period of time. Of course there are an awful lot of nice people in those address ranges, also. But I rarely do business outside the US. If you, or anyone else having this problem, would like to see the picture, I'll be happy to send it to you in an email. -dan- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From danielz at acmenet.net Fri Jan 14 08:02:14 2005 From: danielz at acmenet.net (Dan Z) Date: Fri Jan 14 08:02:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Help with unknown minerals please? (AccessDeniederror) References: Message-ID: <000601c4fa52$6a11cbf0$6401a8c0@M1Garand> > Yes, I'm nice ;-)))) > Maybe you can send me the pic off-list? I have broadband (the real McCoy...) > so don't be shy about size. > Attached, Axel. So far no one has had a clue about the top pieces. I appreciate your taking a look. -dan z- --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) image/jpeg --- From danielz at acmenet.net Fri Jan 14 08:34:26 2005 From: danielz at acmenet.net (Dan Z) Date: Fri Jan 14 08:34:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Help with unknown minerals please? (It is...) References: Message-ID: <000401c4fa56$eb7e7040$6401a8c0@M1Garand> One solved! I have several pieces of the "mineral" shown in the top of the picture. I decided to sacrifice the smallest one to further testing. But upon first inspecting it closely under the microscope, I discovered a thread sticking out of one of the crystals! So the answer is: man-grown something. Very nice looking stuff. Too bad it's not real. Thanks for taking a look. -dan z- From morningstar at att.net Fri Jan 14 08:37:58 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Fri Jan 14 08:38:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Help with unknown minerals please? (It is...) Message-ID: <011420051637.14478.41E7F5650005C6930000388E21603763169D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Dan Z" > One solved! I have several pieces of the "mineral" shown in the top of the > picture. I decided to sacrifice the smallest one to further testing. But > upon first inspecting it closely under the microscope, I discovered a thread > sticking out of one of the crystals! So the answer is: man-grown something. Aha! Figured it was some sort of water-soluble material. However, it might be something that is difficult to grow, or contain some odd element, so you should only sacrifice the one piece at the moment. Don From rockcurrier at cs.com Fri Jan 14 14:13:41 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Fri Jan 14 14:03:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz windows and window amethyst References: <200501140201.j0E21Fdd005523@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <005101c4fa86$4eada120$6901a8c0@rock3> Dear Georgia, I am not sure what you mean by window quartz and window amethyst, but I think you mean the little frosty looking semiround pieces of quartz, amethyst, rosequartz etc that have a little window cut and polished on one side that allows you to view the interior of the stone. If this is what you mean, almost all of them are produced in Rio Grande do Sul in the same factories that cut and polish agate slabs, bookends etc and cut and polished the thousands of amethyst geodes that are mined in this the southern most state of Brazil. Originally, many years ago some naturally tumbled clear quartz cobbles were picked up in some streams and river beds near quartz deposites, probably near the sandstone quartz deposites in Minas Gerais and some of them were cut open on their ends and polished so you could look easily into the frosted cobbles. They proved interesting and saleable, but very quickly all the quartz cobbles were picked up and it was very rare to find them in their natural state. For many years, certainly at least twenty years, the quartz cobbles are manufactured by the stone factories. Beaten and battered quartz crystals are shoveled into old concrete mixers and tumbled till the quartz crystals beat themselves round and when rounded to a suffiecient degree a little slice is taken off the end with a diamond saw and the cut surface polished. I years past they only treated quartz that way. About two or three years ago someone got the idea to do the same thing to amethys and rose quartz and when they found out that both of those things sold, they became a standard product that is made and exported by the stone factories. Rock From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Fri Jan 14 16:11:50 2005 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Fri Jan 14 16:12:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Test filter for my email - ignore In-Reply-To: <200501140428.j0E4SCf0017242@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <200501150012.j0F0BxrC017988@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Sorry for the email... I'm testing a new filter and I have to see if my Rockhounds email is punching through. You can, of course, kill this. THIS... Not the messenger. GcB From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jan 14 18:25:56 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jan 14 18:26:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Help with Unknown - From Mars! References: <200501132325.j0DNPrCW030042@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <41E87F2D.2427@Tomaszewski.net> Gary Brown wrote: > > New "unknown" on Mars! > > This should be on one line: > > http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/n/345/1N158809950EFF40DIP1912R0 > M1.HTML > > Article in MSNBC: > > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6822808/ > > Regards, > GcB > Might be another Mars 'meteorite' like this one http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/mars_bounce_040416.html From JWachsmuth at gmx.de Fri Jan 14 09:15:26 2005 From: JWachsmuth at gmx.de (Juergen Wachsmuth) Date: Sat Jan 15 02:24:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garnets Message-ID: <41E7FE2E.C4A598E0@gmx.de> Hello, anyone familiar with the book by Hanneman, Naming Gem Garnets (2004 ?) ? I would like to hear your opinion? Worth to buy for a mineral collector with some interest in garnets? Regards, J?rgen Wachsmuth Ulm - Germany From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sat Jan 15 06:55:33 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sat Jan 15 06:46:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garnets References: <41E7FE2E.C4A598E0@gmx.de> Message-ID: <001001c4fb12$44bc7100$7fa4490c@pete> Never heard of it! Pete Modreski ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juergen Wachsmuth" To: Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 10:15 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Garnets > Hello, > > anyone familiar with the book by Hanneman, Naming Gem Garnets (2004 ?) ? > > I would like to hear your opinion? Worth to buy for a mineral collector > with some interest in garnets? > > Regards, > > J?rgen Wachsmuth > Ulm - Germany > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From cweinber at bcpl.net Sat Jan 15 10:48:39 2005 From: cweinber at bcpl.net (Carolyn Weinberger) Date: Sat Jan 15 10:50:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] International Directory of Micromounts Message-ID: <12192E16-6726-11D9-8D0D-0005025E4230@bcpl.net> International Directory of Micromounters 20th Edition Now Available The Baltimore Mineral Society is pleased to announce the release of the 20th Edition of its International Directory of Micromounters. The cover price is $6.00 per copy. Copies will be available at the Atlantic Micromounters Conference in April 2005 and at the Paul Desautels Memorial Micromount Symposium in October 2005, both held in Elkridge (Baltimore), MD. For addresses in the United States, the postpaid price is $8.50 per copy. Payment by personal check or by money order is acceptable. For those not living in the United States, the postpaid prices, in US funds only are listed below. Personal checks are not acceptable because they do not work in the US banking system. Checks or money orders, payable in U.S. dollars and drawn on accounts in U.S. banks (e.g. American Express) are acceptable. U.S. dollars are also acceptable, but should be sent by registered mail to reduce the chances of theft. If dollars are sent, payment should be rounded up to the next whole dollar to avoid sending coins. The Baltimore Mineral Society cannot accept responsibility for funds not received. Postage for 1 ?3 copies Canada $8.50 surface $8.50 airmail Western Europe $9.50 surface $11.00 airmail Australia and New Zealand $9.50 surface $12.50 airmail South Africa $9.50 surface $12.00 airmail Checks or money orders should be made payable to ?Directory of Micromounters?. Orders must be addressed to the editor: Carolyn Weinberger PO Box 302 Glyndon, MD 21071-0302 USA Future editions depend on input from micromounters everywhere. Please send corrections, additions or, sadly, deletions to the editor at the address above or via e-mail . --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- From mpurington at hotmail.com Sat Jan 15 14:45:55 2005 From: mpurington at hotmail.com (Marcy Purington) Date: Sat Jan 15 14:46:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A little about myself Message-ID: I am a 6th grade teacher that loves rocks. My family and I have driven cross country 4 times, checking out as many national parks as possible, 154 as of now. As we travel, I collect rocks. It is not unusual for us to be bringing back about 150 lbs of rocks. Now I am getting to the point where I need to start doing something with these rocks. My youngest daughter and I are taking a class on making silver jewelry and I would like to learn how to do some lapidary work and combine the two. I don't know of anyone, or anywhere around here in NH to take a class. Anyone with some info that wants to share I would love to hear from them. Thankyou, Marcy P. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sat Jan 15 12:59:50 2005 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sat Jan 15 15:00:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A little about myself References: Message-ID: <001701c4fb45$2c5faf40$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Marcy, Check out http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LapidaryList/ John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marcy Purington" I don't know of anyone, or anywhere around here in NH to take a class. Anyone with some info that wants to share I would love to hear from them. From jayhawkmn at yahoo.com Sat Jan 15 18:00:22 2005 From: jayhawkmn at yahoo.com (June Young) Date: Sat Jan 15 18:00:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Minnesota Message-ID: <20050116020022.92076.qmail@web51006.mail.yahoo.com> I have been a member for about 2 months. The information is overwhelming and educational. The Lake Superior Agate was my first find. I lived on the Lake for 22 years. I have now decided to get more involved and learn about other stones. Now I live in the Twin City area and would like to know if there are others on this list for MN. I would like to learn what else the State has to offer in collecting. I have joined a couple of local clubs for additional education. June Young USDA Zone 4 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sat Jan 15 19:24:39 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sat Jan 15 19:15:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A little about myself References: Message-ID: <001d01c4fb7a$eb4eac00$a7a6490c@pete> Hi Marcy, I know there are some gem and mineral clubs in NH (as there are in every state, of course) that would probably have info about lapidary classes. There's a nice gem & mineral show in the summer in, I believe, Manchester NH (I've only been to it once); those are also good sources of info, as are any of the local rock shops. I know of good rock shops in North Conway, Intervale, and a nice new little one in Rochester; I don't know as much about the central & western NH area. My Mom and my sister live in NH (seacoast area, Somersworth), and I usually visit them once a year; NH is always nice! Pete Modreski (Denver, CO) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marcy Purington" To: Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 3:45 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] A little about myself > > > > I am a 6th grade teacher that loves rocks. My family and I have driven cross country 4 times, checking out as many national parks as possible, 154 as of now. As we travel, I collect rocks. It is not unusual for us to be bringing back about 150 lbs of rocks. Now I am getting to the point where I need to start doing something with these rocks. My youngest daughter and I are taking a class on making silver jewelry and I would like to learn how to do some lapidary work and combine the two. I don't know of anyone, or anywhere around here in NH to take a class. Anyone with some info that wants to share I would love to hear from them. > > Thankyou, > > Marcy P. > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > text/html (html body -- converted) > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Jan 15 20:32:00 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Jan 15 20:31:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- Making Shared Knowledge Permanent Message-ID: <41E9EE21.6FBB@Tomaszewski.net> I deleted the thread about MinDat's ability to sustain itself into the future, but I had more thoughts on the issue. Mindat is currently accessed via the web. What if MinDat could take an annual snapshot of the web and load it onto a CD you could access with your browser? It might require more than one CD, and it might require installing compressed files to your hard disk -- details. What would you pay for a personal copy of MinDat? How much would you be willing to pay for an annual update with all the changes made during the previous year? MinDat is a major application. How much did you pay for your major software packages? How much do you pay for your tax software every year? Or your annual subscription to your antivirus software? New feature for a personal edition might be a way to automatically log into the online version from your registered copy, and make submissions automagically by selecting files from your disk. Another one might be a way to add your personal collection into your copy. If you think outside the box, you can see the box. PC prices have hit $500. Would you buy a $1000-1500, internet ready, computer if it had MinDat preloaded? How much would you pay for MinDat, THE Mineral Book, 2007 edition? And if something ever happened to the online version, the collected knowledge would not be lost. We've been thru this issue before. Some of you may remember when Aaron took over Administration of this list from Tom. Some of you may remember when Hale Sweeny retired The Lapidary Digest -- his list archives were taken over and are still online. There have been a number of other expert resources that have been lost outside of the Internet's Museum of Websites, www.archive.org; and like any Museum, they have limited resources and purge old, unused/unaccessed, collections over time, and I've lost final access to some old favorites. Making Internet gathered, shared, knowledge permanent is a serious issue, and a lot more areas of interest than Rockhounding are affected. Kreigh From Lapidry at aol.com Sat Jan 15 21:02:51 2005 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Sat Jan 15 21:02:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Minnesota Message-ID: <148.3c25864a.2f1b4f7b@aol.com> In a message dated 1/15/2005 9:06:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, jayhawkmn@yahoo.com writes: I have been a member for about 2 months. The information is overwhelming and educational. The Lake Superior Agate was my first find. I lived on the Lake for 22 years. I have now decided to get more involved and learn about other stones. Now I live in the Twin City area and would like to know if there are others on this list for MN. I would like to learn what else the State has to offer in collecting. I have joined a couple of local clubs for additional education. June Young USDA Zone 4 June: Minnesota has TONS of stuff worth collecting for the beginner. Staurolite down below the dam at Royalton, fossils over in Lilydale park on the south side of St. Paul, Red druzy quartz near Redwing, fossils in the Forrestville (near Iowa border) area, you name it. Like many areas in the world though, some of the best have either been lost or are rapidly disappearing. Binghamite (American tigereye!!!), silkstone (closely related to Binghamite, not as high quality), rhodonite, etc. in the Cuyuna Iron Range, places that used to welcome collectors like the gravel pits around Moose Lake for Lake Superior agates, Thompsonite along Thompsonite Beach, etc. Go over to the Indian reservation and get some pipestone (you have to buy it). Go to the Moose Lake show this next summer. It's a nice two hour drive from the twin cities. I haven't been to their show in 5-6 years but I assume it's still a great show. The tailgators were the best area. The Anoka club used to host several shows a year around the twin cities, check them out. I lived in Minneapolis several years ago and fell in love with the area. I literally camped in some of the gravel pits up north, with permission, on weekends so I could spend as much time as possible hunting lakers. 15-16 hours a day, three days a week (I worked 4 12 hour days on the project I was on and had three days off), all summer. I used to come home with a 5 quart ice cream bucket full of lakers after a good weekend. A bucket fills up fairly fast when you find an 8 ounce and 12 ounce laker within 15 minutes. (OK, that only happened once - the 5 quart bucket happened several times though) Last time I was up in the area, my favorite gravel pit had a 4x8 foot sign, "NO AGATE PICKERS." Very sad. I thought about stopping in to see if any of the workers remembered me and would let me in but decided against it. It wouldn't have been the same. If I were to define heaven for rockhounds in the US, it would probably be somewhere between California and Washington, including Oregon (OK, Nevada and Arizona too - and most of the west), but I'll tell you, if Minnesota isn't rockhound heaven, you can see it from there. Me, I live in NY, my biggest bragging rites are fantastic Herkimer Diamonds, it thins out real fast after that. Oh well!!! Maybe next week, in my spare time, I'll dig up Franklin, NJ and move it to the next county over from me. Not too many people would miss the county and I'd have some great stuff to collect locally. Good luck hunting. Join one of the clubs in the area. Minnesota Mineral Club would be an excellent choice. They meet over towards St. Paul. Let me know if I can be of help.... Dan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at aloha.net Sat Jan 15 22:23:05 2005 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Jan 15 22:23:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mindat Survival -- Making Shared Knowledge Permanent In-Reply-To: <41E9EE21.6FBB@Tomaszewski.net> References: <41E9EE21.6FBB@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.0.20050115184854.01e3bf58@mail.aloha.net> This is an important issue, and I had difficulty snipping the message for my response. Yes, Kreigh, it definitely requires thought. Aloha, Kitty At 06:32 PM 1/15/2005, you wrote: >Mindat is currently accessed via the web. What if MinDat could take an >annual snapshot of the web and load it onto a CD you could access with >your browser? It might require more than one CD, and it might require >installing compressed files to your hard disk -- details. > >What would you pay for a personal copy of MinDat? How much would you be >willing to pay for an annual update with all the changes made during the >previous year? snip Making Internet gathered, shared, knowledge permanent is a serious issue, and a lot more areas of interest than Rockhounding are affected. Kreigh From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sun Jan 16 01:27:26 2005 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sun Jan 16 01:28:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- Making Shared Knowledge Permanent In-Reply-To: <41E9EE21.6FBB@Tomaszewski.net> References: <41E9EE21.6FBB@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <41EA337E.7050904@xs4all.nl> Ok here is a thought. I added some info and pictures to Mindat. Mindat is free for everyone and non profit. If Mindat starts to make money of my entries how much should Mindat pay ME for my 'valuable' contribution?? I think with hundreds of contributors, that quickly ends the discussion of Mindat payware. I invested my money in an ADSL internet connection. No time and data limit, so why mess around with multiple CD's? Besides that in my humble opinion is Mindat a bit overrated. Look at any locality and see how many minerals are presented there WITH references. In many cases only a few percent. As long as there is no reference stated the information is unreliable. Even some references are doubtfull. Sometimes dealers lists or other websites are mentioned as reference. Hardly scientific. So here is a second thought. If I place a blank book on the entrance of the Tucson mineral show and let every visitor write some information in it about mineralogy, no matter what their mineralogical background is. Would you buy this book as "THE mineral book 2007 edition" for say $500? If many people answer this with "YES!", let me know and I see you with a blank book in Tucson next year! All in all Mindat is a great internet tool, especially as a starting point for an investigation. But you defenitely need to check the information and I still searched countless localities where no or only a little information is known by mindat, where I have much more info in my good old paper books. Cheers, Maurice Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >I deleted the thread about MinDat's ability to sustain itself into the >future, but I had more thoughts on the issue. > >Mindat is currently accessed via the web. What if MinDat could take an >annual snapshot of the web and load it onto a CD you could access with >your browser? It might require more than one CD, and it might require >installing compressed files to your hard disk -- details. > >What would you pay for a personal copy of MinDat? How much would you be >willing to pay for an annual update with all the changes made during the >previous year? > >MinDat is a major application. How much did you pay for your major >software packages? How much do you pay for your tax software every year? >Or your annual subscription to your antivirus software? > >New feature for a personal edition might be a way to automatically log >into the online version from your registered copy, and make submissions >automagically by selecting files from your disk. Another one might be a >way to add your personal collection into your copy. > >If you think outside the box, you can see the box. PC prices have hit >$500. Would you buy a $1000-1500, internet ready, computer if it had >MinDat preloaded? > >How much would you pay for MinDat, THE Mineral Book, 2007 edition? > >And if something ever happened to the online version, the collected >knowledge would not be lost. > >We've been thru this issue before. Some of you may remember when Aaron >took over Administration of this list from Tom. Some of you may remember >when Hale Sweeny retired The Lapidary Digest -- his list archives were >taken over and are still online. There have been a number of other >expert resources that have been lost outside of the Internet's Museum of >Websites, www.archive.org; and like any Museum, they have limited >resources and purge old, unused/unaccessed, collections over time, and >I've lost final access to some old favorites. > >Making Internet gathered, shared, knowledge permanent is a serious >issue, and a lot more areas of interest than Rockhounding are affected. > >Kreigh >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From morningstar at att.net Sun Jan 16 06:57:18 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Sun Jan 16 06:54:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- Making Shared Knowledge Permanent In-Reply-To: <41EA337E.7050904@xs4all.nl> References: <41E9EE21.6FBB@Tomaszewski.net> <41EA337E.7050904@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <41EA80CE.9090800@att.net> Maurice de Graaf wrote: > Besides that in my humble opinion is Mindat a bit overrated. Look at any > locality and see how many minerals are presented there WITH references. > In many cases only a few percent. As long as there is no reference > stated the information is unreliable. Even some references are > doubtfull. Sometimes dealers lists or other websites are mentioned as > reference. Hardly scientific. Wow. When Maurice is questioning Mindat, you know something is amiss. Maurice, I'm glad that your previously unbridled lust for this site has been temepered. First--the programmer has done a wonderful job in creating a functional site. However, as he himself said to me in a personal e-mail, it was never intended to be what collectors have made it to be. Rather, the criticism belongs to the people who enter sloppy data as well as to the people who trust the site implicitly. > So here is a second thought. If I place a blank book on the entrance of > the Tucson mineral show and let every visitor write some information in > it about mineralogy, no matter what their mineralogical background is. > Would you buy this book as "THE mineral book 2007 edition" for say > $500? I was under the impression that the site was being cleaned up to remove locality references such as "Joe's collection." One of the points I made to the owner was that, if someone couldn't provide a published reference, it shouldn't be there at all. Now, I'm aware that published references aren't always perfect either, but at least they are present in an open forum where they can be debated and corrected. I know some of the people who put information into Mindat and where they get their information, and it frightens me that other people consider this authoritative. > All in all Mindat is a great internet tool, especially as a starting > point for an investigation. But you defenitely need to check the > information and I still searched countless localities where no or only a > little information is known by mindat, where I have much more info in my > good old paper books. How many times has a post on this list, or other lists, started with "I checked Mindat but couldn't find anything on . . . " Why would I pay for something that is known to be incomplete? Remember, there are two problems with such a site as this: the information that is there may not be correct, but worse, there is no imperative that all information MUST be there. In other words, if you search for minerals at the Balmat, NY locality, how do you know that what is returned is a complete list? The information there is completely at the whim of who feels like putting something in there. The recently published Handbook of Mineralogy took years to publish and endured close scrutiny. That is an authoritative reference. I could not be certain, though, that any of the website owners who publish mineral data have gone through and updated their sites by reading the descriptions of all 4,000+ valid species and making changes where appropriate. I don't know how many thousands of locality entries there are, but I can't imagine that every time one is revised, Mindat is updated. This is a problem in need of a modern solution, but trusting any web site an an authoritative source is most likely not that solution. Don From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Sun Jan 16 07:07:35 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Sun Jan 16 07:07:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A little about myself In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41EA8337.2060403@tenforward.com> Hi Marcy, Check out the link provided below for Wildacres. Scroll down the link page for the mineralogical societies and for their programs. Just an idea... All the very best, John http://www.wildacres.org/Schedule.htm Marcy Purington wrote: > >I am a 6th grade teacher that loves rocks. My family and I have driven cross country 4 times, checking out as many national parks as possible, 154 as of now. As we travel, I collect rocks. It is not unusual for us to be bringing back about 150 lbs of rocks. Now I am getting to the point where I need to start doing something with these rocks. My youngest daughter and I are taking a class on making silver jewelry and I would like to learn how to do some lapidary work and combine the two. I don't know of anyone, or anywhere around here in NH to take a class. Anyone with some info that wants to share I would love to hear from them. > >Thankyou, > >Marcy P. > > > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >text/html (html body -- converted) >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sun Jan 16 07:23:07 2005 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sun Jan 16 07:23:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- Making Shared Knowledge Permanent In-Reply-To: <41EA80CE.9090800@att.net> References: <41E9EE21.6FBB@Tomaszewski.net> <41EA337E.7050904@xs4all.nl> <41EA80CE.9090800@att.net> Message-ID: <41EA86DB.8000604@xs4all.nl> Don, > > Wow. When Maurice is questioning Mindat, you know something is amiss. > Maurice, I'm glad that your previously unbridled lust for this site > has been temepered. Ehhh, did I have 'unbridleds lust for Mindat'?? I think you confuse me with someone else. > I was under the impression that the site was being cleaned up to > remove locality references such as "Joe's collection." One of the > points I made to the owner was that, if someone couldn't provide a > published reference, it shouldn't be there at all. Well I don't mind the minerals without a reference. Currently I'm working on a review publication covering several localities with roughly similar mineralogy. 90% of the minerals I can find from these localities have proper refs. The 10% left comes from dealer lists etc. That does not make them useless, but it requires further investigation and maybe even analyses. So the non-ref minerals are more clues than facts. > In other words, if you search for minerals at the Balmat, NY locality, > how do you know that what is returned is a complete list? You can never be sure of a COMPLETE list. Not on Mindat not in books. In theory Mindat would be beter since internet is more flexible. Wrong listings can be deleted and new addition added, which is not really possible in printed books. Or you have to buy/publish new versions every now and then. > who publish mineral data have gone through and updated their sites by > reading the descriptions of all 4,000+ valid species and making > changes where appropriate. I don't know how many thousands of > locality entries there are, but I can't imagine that every time one is > revised, Mindat is updated. A few months ago I asked in the Mindat forum where the new Labuntsovite group members where: Organovaite-Mn, Organovaite-Zn, Tsepinite-K, Tsepinite-Ca, Paratsepinite-Ba and Neskevaarite-Fe were all missing from their database and still are today. This is no criticism to the Mindat guys, because I own a website too and I know how much time it consumes. But it illustrates that the system is not perfect and should not regarded as 'the perfect authoritive system' Cheers, Maurice From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sun Jan 16 08:02:06 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun Jan 16 08:02:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- Making SharedKnowledge Permanent References: <41E9EE21.6FBB@Tomaszewski.net> <41EA337E.7050904@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <003201c4fbe4$ba503370$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I've already sounded off on this issue so I'll try to avoid repeating myself. Here is my challenge to anyone who has information about collecting localities -- check mindat to see if the sites that you are know something about are listed properly. If they aren't, correct them! For example, the someone posted information on the Old Jim mine in Crittenden Co., KY (http://www.mindat.org/loc.php?loc=17187). But the location read "Salem, Crittenden Co., KY" with a reference of "Rocks & Min. 63:359" - no year, no author. So I made changes - correcting the locality to read "Marion, Crittenden Co." because Salem is in Livingston Co. and Marion is a larger town twice as close! Second, I culled out a description / history from my article in the Min. Record which I cited as a reference. Third - I added photos of both the site and of specimens I collected there! Is there an ethical problem of posting locality information from books and magazines? For example, I didn't find a staurolite locality in Galax, Virginia listed. Having collected there, I added: http://www.mindat.org/loc-65055.html citing Frye's book which is how I found out about the locality. What about adding localities from a book or magazine when you didn't visit the site or sites? Is it ethical or legal to go through a book (i.e., Colorado Gem Trails, or the Minerals of Ohio) or magazine article (i.e., Arkansas Mineral Locality Index) and post information on mindat if you are not the author? Does citing it as a reference make it legal or ethical? What about adding a mindat locality? When I want to upload a photo of a specimen in my collection, but to the best of my ability, can't find the locality posted - should I add it? I've added a number of localities - Moneymore Quarry, Co. Antrim, Northern Ireland, Mina de los Dolores mine in Spain to name two - based on locality information on labels from collectors from whom I've received the specimens. I have not personally visited either locality. But I have to assume that the information is more-or-less correct, or why trade or purchase specimens at all? There are some big issues here. I welcome your thoughts on the subject. Alan From CrescentStoneINC at aol.com Sun Jan 16 08:27:07 2005 From: CrescentStoneINC at aol.com (CrescentStoneINC@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 16 08:27:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Stromatolite Samples Message-ID: <12a.54bf9c0e.2f1befdb@aol.com> From: Crescent Stone Company Horst; Are you interested in rough to cab or a unpolished slab? Sincerely: Steve DeLong/Owner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Jan 16 09:54:08 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Jan 16 09:51:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- Making Shared Knowledge Permanent References: <41E9EE21.6FBB@Tomaszewski.net> <41EA337E.7050904@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <41EAA9B4.22FE@Tomaszewski.net> Maurice de Graaf wrote: > > Ok here is a thought. I added some info and pictures to Mindat. Mindat > is free for everyone and non profit. If Mindat starts to make money of > my entries how much should Mindat pay ME for my 'valuable' > contribution?? I think with hundreds of contributors, that quickly ends > the discussion of Mindat payware. The suggestion of MinDat payware was a way to make MinDat self supporting, distribute the knowledge, and hopefully encourage more submissions by making it easier to contribute. All non-profit organizations have to support themselves in some way. > > I invested my money in an ADSL internet connection. No time and data > limit, so why mess around with multiple CD's? Not everyone has ADSL; CDs would be preferred over a dial-up connection. From Samstress17 at aol.com Sun Jan 16 10:01:53 2005 From: Samstress17 at aol.com (Samstress17@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 16 10:01:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] International Directory of Micromounts Message-ID: <111.419ef8bb.2f1c0611@aol.com> Hello all- Speaking of micromounts and other small specimens, does anyone in this group use a digital camera to photograph their rocks? If so, what camera do you recommend? I looked at a Nikon Coolpix 4800, and the 8x optical zoom seemed to be much better than the 3x. Just thought I would throw that out- I would like to put together an online collection of my stuff- I have some really nice pieces and would love to share them with other rockhounds. Thanks in advance- Sam from Philly --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Jan 16 10:20:54 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Jan 16 10:18:39 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- Making Shared Knowledge Permanent References: <41E9EE21.6FBB@Tomaszewski.net> <41EA337E.7050904@xs4all.nl> <41EA80CE.9090800@att.net> Message-ID: <41EAAFF7.4E7C@Tomaszewski.net> Don H wrote: > I was under the impression that the site was being cleaned up to remove > locality references such as "Joe's collection." One of the points I > made to the owner was that, if someone couldn't provide a published > reference, it shouldn't be there at all. Now, I'm aware that published > references aren't always perfect either, but at least they are present > in an open forum where they can be debated and corrected. I know some > of the people who put information into Mindat and where they get their > information, and it frightens me that other people consider this > authoritative. > Perhaps MinDat needs to have two levels of knowledge, formal and informal. With any source of information you have to take what knowledge is presented with some grains of salt. Formally presented knowledge usually requires less salt because steps have been taken to make sure the i's are dotted and the t's are crossed. But because of the additional scrutiny and effort needed a lot of knowledge never makes it to the formal arena. Informal knowledge, like most of the internet, needs a little more scrutiny. But the internet makes it easier to share informal knowledge. MinDat could be a forum for elevating informal knowledge to the quality of formal knowledge. An example... The Seaman Museum's recently released The Mineralogy of Michigan is an excellent formal presentation of collected knowledge that has taken years to prepare, verify, and publish. It is an excellent work. But I have specimens in my collection (self collected, traded, purchased) that demonstrate minerals and/or locations missing from the book. It is unlikely I will ever have them published in a reputable source to they could be included in a future edition. If I published them to MinDat, and they were verified by some number of other people, that would effectively make the knowledge formal. MinDat could become an authoritive formal source by collecting, organizing, and verifying our combined informal knowledge. Kreigh From JWachsmuth at gmx.de Sun Jan 16 07:31:56 2005 From: JWachsmuth at gmx.de (Juergen Wachsmuth) Date: Sun Jan 16 10:29:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- Making Shared Knowledge Permanent References: <41E9EE21.6FBB@Tomaszewski.net> <41EA337E.7050904@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <41EA88EC.C0DAA3A5@gmx.de> Hello, let me say that I agree with Maurice. My opinion may be biased but I found it justified for many european localities. Have a nice day J?rgen Wachsmuth Ulm - Germany > ----Snip > > All in all Mindat is a great internet tool, especially as a starting > point for an investigation. But you defenitely need to check the > information and I still searched countless localities where no or only a > little information is known by mindat, where I have much more info in my > good old paper books. > > Cheers, > Maurice From morningstar at att.net Sun Jan 16 11:08:50 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Sun Jan 16 11:06:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- Making Shared Knowledge Permanent In-Reply-To: <41EAAFF7.4E7C@Tomaszewski.net> References: <41E9EE21.6FBB@Tomaszewski.net> <41EA337E.7050904@xs4all.nl> <41EA80CE.9090800@att.net> <41EAAFF7.4E7C@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <41EABBC2.6020106@att.net> Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > MinDat could become an authoritive formal source by collecting, > organizing, and verifying our combined informal knowledge. I suppose my frequent dealings with rarities, micros, and odd varieties colors my views on these matters. Such minerals are often notoriously difficult to identify, even with lab techniques, and despite my strong belief that all minerals should be described, it is generally thought that the mineralogical community doesn't get too excited when a rare, one-locality, small-quantity species is discovered. This type of discovery is much more interesting to collectors. However, collectors often suffer from "wishful identification" and, in the case when a specimen might be either a common species or a look-alike rare analogue, the collector will almost invariably assign it the name of the rarer species. In one instance, I was collecting in the sacred ground of Franklin and a woman showed people a specimen of trap-rock amethyst she had found. Several old-timers immediately said "that's from around Paterson" (a trap-rock area not far away) and it was obviously so. We explained to here why it actually couldn't be *from* there even though that's where she found it, obviously after someone cleaned it out of their trunk. She just smiled and shrugged and said, "well that's how I'm going to label it anyway, it's my Franklin amethyst." Fortunately this attribution is unlikely to ever make it into the literature, and besides, new finds from that area are published in an offical list and undergo much scrutiny, but this kind of abomination *could* find its way to a website. And that's the concern. Don From shm at tapnet.net Sun Jan 16 11:39:53 2005 From: shm at tapnet.net (SHM) Date: Sun Jan 16 11:39:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Help with unknown minerals please? In-Reply-To: <000501c4f9ae$20091b70$6401a8c0@M1Garand> Message-ID: <020001c4fc03$277c5e60$9fe4a5ce@D3JM7W21> A friend of mine, a world-renowned authority, has identified the top two specimens as petroleum crystals from the Jose Pinto vaseline mine in Los Lunas, New Mexico. Unfortunately he is not a world authority on minerals . . . Cheers- Earl Verbeek -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Dan Z Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 3:26 PM To: Rockhound list danielz frm; Rocks-Fossils list (egroups) Subject: [Rockhounds] Help with unknown minerals please? I just came across a couple of things in a box from an old private collection. A 100kbyte picture is at http://www.manyfacets.com/unknown.jpg The top two pieces actually appear much more yellowish than in this picture. Field of view of the picture is 4 inches. These pieces are fully transparent, very light (low specific gravity), and appear to have been soaked or coated with a heavy oil. < snip, slash, cut> -dan z- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 16 11:42:30 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sun Jan 16 11:42:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- Making Shared Knowledge Permanent In-Reply-To: <41EABBC2.6020106@att.net> Message-ID: <20050116194230.14535.qmail@web51003.mail.yahoo.com> Don, I share your concern regarding this sort of situation. I also deplore people dumping minerals from one locality at another. I've seen this myself (also in New Jersey). With regard to what's posted on Mindat, the key is the reference given. As long as there is some sort of reference, the user can decide how good a given datum is. If it's from a publication, base the assessment on the publication's reputation. If it's "Joe's collection", take that for what it's worth (particularly if you know "Joe"). The less documented data are also useful. Simply documenting localities that have never been written up in the formal literature is very important. The lists of species from that locality might be just clues, but still better than nothing. Jim --- Don H wrote: > I suppose my frequent dealings with rarities, > micros, and odd varieties > colors my views on these matters. Such minerals are > often notoriously > difficult to identify, even with lab techniques, and > despite my strong > belief that all minerals should be described, it is > generally thought > that the mineralogical community doesn't get too > excited when a rare, > one-locality, small-quantity species is discovered. > This type of > discovery is much more interesting to collectors. > However, collectors > often suffer from "wishful identification" and, in > the case when a > specimen might be either a common species or a > look-alike rare analogue, > the collector will almost invariably assign it the > name of the rarer > species. In one instance, I was collecting in the > sacred ground of > Franklin and a woman showed people a specimen of > trap-rock amethyst she > had found. Several old-timers immediately said > "that's from around > Paterson" (a trap-rock area not far away) and it was > obviously so. We > explained to here why it actually couldn't be *from* > there even though > that's where she found it, obviously after someone > cleaned it out of > their trunk. She just smiled and shrugged and said, > "well that's how > I'm going to label it anyway, it's my Franklin > amethyst." Fortunately > this attribution is unlikely to ever make it into > the literature, and > besides, new finds from that area are published in > an offical list and > undergo much scrutiny, but this kind of abomination > *could* find its way > to a website. And that's the concern. > > > Don __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 From bobl at peaktopeak.com Sun Jan 16 11:49:25 2005 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Sun Jan 16 11:47:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- MakingShared Knowledge Permanent In-Reply-To: <41EAAFF7.4E7C@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: I don't think there is an easy/efficient/feasible way to make MinDat an authoritative formal resource as long as any user can upload pics and text. Even saying "This information has been verified by a research group headed by Kreigh T., Don H., Pete M., ..." wouldn't hold any weight by most rockhounds around the world, besides the few of us who are on this mailing list or know them personally. Sorry guys! ;-) If it said "This information has been verified by curators of the Smithsonian and X Museum" (and there is no way for a normal user to enter that text), I think that would be more believable by the rockhounding community, but a project like that would cost an enormous amount of money to maintain and most museums around the USA (and probably the world) barely have enough money to fund the projects they are already working on. Please don't get me wrong, I do like it for what it's worth... as a starting point for finding out info on a location or specimen. But making it an authoritative resource is far beyond its scope. A couple years ago I created something similar for Colorado (USA) rockhounding (http://www.peaktopeak.com/colorado/index.php3). It isn't an authoritative resource by any means. It's a starting point with references, so users can read the authoritative info in the referenced books and magazines. It has pictures of many of the locations and mineral specimens, but no scientific data, so it is mainly for the layman rockhound who wants to learn more and see some cool pictures. That is what MinDat is. Regards, Bob Loeffler -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Kreigh Tomaszewski Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 11:21 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- MakingShared Knowledge Permanent Kreigh wrote: > MinDat could become an authoritive formal source by collecting, > organizing, and verifying our combined informal knowledge. From morningstar at att.net Sun Jan 16 12:00:28 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Sun Jan 16 11:57:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- MakingShared Knowledge Permanent In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41EAC7DC.1070704@att.net> Bob Loeffler wrote: > I don't think there is an easy/efficient/feasible way to make MinDat an > authoritative formal resource as long as any user can upload pics and text. > Even saying "This information has been verified by a research group headed > by Kreigh T., Don H., Pete M., ..." wouldn't hold any weight by most > rockhounds around the world, besides the few of us who are on this mailing > list or know them personally. Sorry guys! ;-) No offense taken--but in defense of Pete Modreski, he *is* a Ph.D. geologist with a solid career at the USGS behind him, and that is just the person who would be qualified to do this sort of validation. I know that Kreigh and I like to quote sources and draw considered conclusions, and that is something anyone can do. it just takes time and access to books. But I'll tell you this, the more I learn, the less I know. By the time I finish my master's I should know very little! A decade ago, I would have thought something like Mindat was the end-all and be-all. Now, after seeing how much bad info is out there floating around in the world, yes, even among Ph.D.s and juried publications, I am paranoid about believing anything I read. Don From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sun Jan 16 12:15:24 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sun Jan 16 12:05:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Help with unknown minerals please? References: <020001c4fc03$277c5e60$9fe4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <001501c4fc08$1e92eda0$bfa4490c@pete> Earl, you have just got to be more serious about this mineral stuff--none of this joking around like this, please (someone might take it for factual). And besides, as anyone knows who used to live in Alburquerque in the good old days and read the alternative newspaper, _______ (my gosh, now I've forgotten what the paper was called!), the Open Pit Vaseline Mine (the world's largest) was located near Waldo, the former Santa Fe railroad stop located midway between Cerrillos (turquoise mining capitol of Spanish colonial N.M.) and the "Waldo Exit" (exit to nowhere, pretty much) on I-25 midway between Santa Fe and Albuquerque. There, now I've straightened that out. Maybe someone could enter some of this in Mindat. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "SHM" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 12:39 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Help with unknown minerals please? > > A friend of mine, a world-renowned authority, has identified the top two > specimens as petroleum crystals from the Jose Pinto vaseline mine in Los > Lunas, New Mexico. > > Unfortunately he is not a world authority on minerals . . . > > Cheers- Earl Verbeek > From shm at tapnet.net Sun Jan 16 12:23:56 2005 From: shm at tapnet.net (SHM) Date: Sun Jan 16 12:24:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival --MakingShared Knowledge Permanent In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <023501c4fc09$4f5bad90$9fe4a5ce@D3JM7W21> -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Bob Loeffler Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 2:49 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival --MakingShared Knowledge Permanent I don't think there is an easy/efficient/feasible way to make MinDat an authoritative formal resource as long as any user can upload pics and text. Even saying "This information has been verified by a research group headed by Kreigh T., Don H., Pete M., ..." wouldn't hold any weight by most rockhounds around the world, besides the few of us who are on this mailing list or know them personally. Sorry guys! ;-) If it said "This information has been verified by curators of the Smithsonian and X Museum" (and there is no way for a normal user to enter that text), I think that would be more believable by the rockhounding community . . . Oh, it's even more complicated than that. Around here (the Franklin - Sterling Hill area) we've learned never to trust the claim that a mineral ID was verified by some authority UNLESS it's the authority himself or herself making that claim. Second-hand information is often misinterpreted or misused. As just one among many examples, in my collection is a specimen of an amphibole accompanied by a label stating that the ID was verified by X-ray diffraction by a very well-known mineralogist with an international reputation. Trouble is, the ID could not have been pinned down to the species level by that technique, not for this particular mineral, so the seller of the specimen was either misquoting the authority or just making the whole thing up. Cheers- Earl Verbeek From bobl at peaktopeak.com Sun Jan 16 12:26:34 2005 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Sun Jan 16 12:24:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival-- MakingShared Knowledge Permanent In-Reply-To: <41EAC7DC.1070704@att.net> Message-ID: Hi Don, Yup, I didn't get my point across very well. If "Ph.D USGS" was written after Pete's name, then yes, everyone would see that he is qualified to do this. My point was that the verifier couldn't just be any individuals listed without a title; they would have to be well-known museums or well-known mineralogical/geological authorities (with valid titles). Thanks for pointing that out. Oh, and how did you know "Pete M." was our very own Pete Modreski? ;-) I know what you mean by "the more I learn, the less I know". That's why I hate learning. Just kidding! If MinDat was initially created as an authoritative resource and the owners had the financial backing, it probably could've been the end-all be-all today. But it's still the best all-around Web resource for what it was set up to do. Regards, Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Don H Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 1:00 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival-- MakingShared Knowledge Permanent Bob Loeffler wrote: > I don't think there is an easy/efficient/feasible way to make MinDat an > authoritative formal resource as long as any user can upload pics and text. > Even saying "This information has been verified by a research group headed > by Kreigh T., Don H., Pete M., ..." wouldn't hold any weight by most > rockhounds around the world, besides the few of us who are on this mailing > list or know them personally. Sorry guys! ;-) No offense taken--but in defense of Pete Modreski, he *is* a Ph.D. geologist with a solid career at the USGS behind him, and that is just the person who would be qualified to do this sort of validation. I know that Kreigh and I like to quote sources and draw considered conclusions, and that is something anyone can do. it just takes time and access to books. But I'll tell you this, the more I learn, the less I know. By the time I finish my master's I should know very little! A decade ago, I would have thought something like Mindat was the end-all and be-all. Now, after seeing how much bad info is out there floating around in the world, yes, even among Ph.D.s and juried publications, I am paranoid about believing anything I read. Don _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sun Jan 16 13:07:56 2005 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sun Jan 16 13:07:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival-- MakingShared Knowledge Permanent In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41EAD7AC.4040302@xs4all.nl> > If "Ph.D USGS" was written >after Pete's name, then yes, everyone would see that he is qualified to do >this. My point was that the verifier couldn't just be any individuals listed >without a title; > Hmmm, actually I don't give anything about titles of people who verify. Dr.Pete or professor Joe are usually expert in only one small area of mineralogy. How can someone who is , say Franklin expert judge my entry about Uzon caldera fumarol minerals.... ? IF you want Mindat to be a 100% reliable site you have to allow only entries with a reference. These refs should then be checked (which can be done by anyone wiho can read a scientific paper). For all entries without a ref a solid analyses should be provided, with raw XRD, microprobe, IR or whatever data. I think this would be beyond the scope of the average collector and Mindat user. Nevertheless I would love to see such a scientific Mindat site Cheers, Maurice From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sun Jan 16 13:19:08 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sun Jan 16 13:19:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: MindatSurvival-- MakingShared Knowledge Permanent In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200501162119.j0GLJ9e5018359@outmx002.isp.belgacom.be> Hi all, I missed some of this discussion, but I wanted to point out a few things (as usual : my personal opinion - I don't intend to step on anyone's toes). 1) Even a title doesn't guarantee a thing. BTW I deplore to use my title in hobbyist surroundings (and as a matter of fact : also elsewhere :>) - having a title doesn't make one a better colleague, friend, human being. But that's my choice. Anyway, I don't know if some of you remember the story of texasite (about 25 years ago) : a certain scientist William W. Crook III (what's in a name) described the mineral texasite in the American Mineralogist (no, not the texasite that is a synonym for zaratite, as stated correctly in... MINDAT). There was also a one-page article on it in the Mineralogical Record in 1978. In 1982 an article appeared in the Am. MIneral., describing the fraud of Crook, who had "identified" the synthetic compound as a rare-earth mineral (an almost pure Pr-oxysulphate - Pr = praseodymium) to become famous. This is a (sadly enough) TRUE story, an example of pure fraud !! I had once a specimen of microcrystalline skleroklase identified (personally, by XRD) from the Lengenbach Quarry. Someone acquired the specimen from me, and returned a few weeks later with another X-ray diffraction pattern, proving that it was baumhauerite. As I wanted to prove my honesty, I examined the specimen even more carefully, and it turned out that one side was skleroclase, the other one was baumhauerite. This is an example of measurement (or rather sampling) uncertainty, which can lead to incorrect labelling. 2) Even if you have a microprobe, X-ray diffractometers and such stuff in your back-garden, it is impossible to run such examinations on every specimen you have and/or swap or whatever. I am pretty confident that in my own collection there are several mis-identifications, unfortunately. 3) I will personally never post anything on MINDAT when I am not about 99 % sure (Not 100 %...). Depending on my source I will perhaps not run XRD again. 4) On the other hand, the more experience you have with sophisticated techniques, the more you start to have doubts on every specimen identification you see. And the more you have seen many minerals, the more you know that not al that is green is malachite. 5) IMHO a database like MINDAT is something VERY useful (even invaluable) for the mineral collectors community. I use it very often, but : caveat emptor ! (meaning the principle in commerce that the buyer alone is responsible for assessing the quality of a purchase before buying). Interpret the data that you find there, and be always aware that the degree of accurary is perhaps 90 % or so (don't nail me on the figure). That's something we have to live with. 6) There is no photo from me in MINDAT (yet) because of lack of time, and as a perfectionist, I always am "not sure enough" about the identification, and not sure enough that the quality of the image is adequate. Conclusion : I use MINDAT very often, but as with all other tings : with care and some extra interpretation. It is better to have such a splendid tool with a certainty of perhaps 90 % than having nothing the like. I have to congratulate sincerely Jolyon Ralph for his dedicated work, and hope that the initiative can continue ! Greetings, -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Bob Loeffler Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 9:27 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: MindatSurvival-- MakingShared Knowledge Permanent Hi Don, Yup, I didn't get my point across very well. If "Ph.D USGS" was written after Pete's name, then yes, everyone would see that he is qualified to do this. My point was that the verifier couldn't just be any individuals listed without a title; they would have to be well-known museums or well-known mineralogical/geological authorities (with valid titles). Thanks for pointing that out. Oh, and how did you know "Pete M." was our very own Pete Modreski? ;-) I know what you mean by "the more I learn, the less I know". That's why I hate learning. Just kidding! If MinDat was initially created as an authoritative resource and the owners had the financial backing, it probably could've been the end-all be-all today. But it's still the best all-around Web resource for what it was set up to do. Regards, Bob From tam2819 at cox.net Sun Jan 16 13:26:04 2005 From: tam2819 at cox.net (T.A.Masters) Date: Sun Jan 16 13:26:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- Making SharedKnowledge Permanent References: <41E9EE21.6FBB@Tomaszewski.net> <41EA337E.7050904@xs4all.nl> <003201c4fbe4$ba503370$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <41EADBEC.8040308@cox.net> Hmmm, Are we throwing out the baby with the bath water? Even Eden had Snakes. Terrie From kugeln at msn.com Sun Jan 16 13:43:19 2005 From: kugeln at msn.com (JOHN STOCKWELL) Date: Sun Jan 16 13:44:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Minnesota References: <148.3c25864a.2f1b4f7b@aol.com> Message-ID: In Moose Lake there is now an agate/geology museum; essentially a park set aside for rockhounds' interests. John From: Lapidry@aol.com To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 9:02 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Minnesota In a message dated 1/15/2005 9:06:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, jayhawkmn@yahoo.com writes: I have been a member for about 2 months. The information is overwhelming and educational. The Lake Superior Agate was my first find. I lived on the Lake for 22 years. I have now decided to get more involved and learn about other stones. Now I live in the Twin City area and would like to know if there are others on this list for MN. I would like to learn what else the State has to offer in collecting. I have joined a couple of local clubs for additional education. June Young USDA Zone 4 June: Minnesota has TONS of stuff worth collecting for the beginner. Staurolite down below the dam at Royalton, fossils over in Lilydale park on the south side of St. Paul, Red druzy quartz near Redwing, fossils in the Forrestville (near Iowa border) area, you name it. Like many areas in the world though, some of the best have either been lost or are rapidly disappearing. Binghamite (American tigereye!!!), silkstone (closely related to Binghamite, not as high quality), rhodonite, etc. in the Cuyuna Iron Range, places that used to welcome collectors like the gravel pits around Moose Lake for Lake Superior agates, Thompsonite along Thompsonite Beach, etc. Go over to the Indian reservation and get some pipestone (you have to buy it). Go to the Moose Lake show this next summer. It's a nice two hour drive from the twin cities. I haven't been to their show in 5-6 years but I assume it's still a great show. The tailgators were the best area. The Anoka club used to host several shows a year around the twin cities, check them out. I lived in Minneapolis several years ago and fell in love with the area. I literally camped in some of the gravel pits up north, with permission, on weekends so I could spend as much time as possible hunting lakers. 15-16 hours a day, three days a week (I worked 4 12 hour days on the project I was on and had three days off), all summer. I used to come home with a 5 quart ice cream bucket full of lakers after a good weekend. A bucket fills up fairly fast when you find an 8 ounce and 12 ounce laker within 15 minutes. (OK, that only happened once - the 5 quart bucket happened several times though) Last time I was up in the area, my favorite gravel pit had a 4x8 foot sign, "NO AGATE PICKERS." Very sad. I thought about stopping in to see if any of the workers remembered me and would let me in but decided against it. It wouldn't have been the same. If I were to define heaven for rockhounds in the US, it would probably be somewhere between California and Washington, including Oregon (OK, Nevada and Arizona too - and most of the west), but I'll tell you, if Minnesota isn't rockhound heaven, you can see it from there. Me, I live in NY, my biggest bragging rites are fantastic Herkimer Diamonds, it thins out real fast after that. Oh well!!! Maybe next week, in my spare time, I'll dig up Franklin, NJ and move it to the next county over from me. Not too many people would miss the county and I'd have some great stuff to collect locally. Good luck hunting. Join one of the clubs in the area. Minnesota Mineral Club would be an excellent choice. They meet over towards St. Paul. Let me know if I can be of help.... Dan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From morningstar at att.net Sun Jan 16 14:32:12 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Sun Jan 16 14:29:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival-- MakingShared Knowledge Permanent In-Reply-To: <41EAD7AC.4040302@xs4all.nl> References: <41EAD7AC.4040302@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <41EAEB6C.1080309@att.net> Maurice de Graaf wrote: >> If "Ph.D USGS" was written >> after Pete's name, then yes, everyone would see that he is qualified >> to do this. My point was that the verifier couldn't just be any individuals >> listed without a title; > Hmmm, actually I don't give anything about titles of people who verify. > Dr.Pete or professor Joe are usually expert in only one small area of > mineralogy. How can someone who is , say Franklin expert judge my entry > about Uzon caldera fumarol minerals.... ? I think we're all really talking about the same thing, but in different ways; someone with experience, and access to GEOREF, like Pete, could do a lot more validation than, say, I could. But you would definitely need a varied group of people to do it. The Commission on New Minerals and Mineral Names is a group of people from many nations chosen to do a job and they usually research the data carefully before they vote, sometimes following vigorous debate. That's what it takes to do things on an authoritative level. There are dozens of people who could review data, confirm locality references, and otherwise make any website or publication well-validated. It's not that someone has a Ph.D. in particular; it is the sum of their knowledge and experience, and their disciplined approach. I know one or two people who have said "hey yeah I put all kinds of stuff on Mindat," and I think, "good heavens, if *he's* doing it, there's going to be a lot of bad info." I didn't want to make too much of this; I just wanted to point out, once again, that there is a huge difference between informative and authoritative. I really do hate picking on Mindat, but people seem to quote it a lot and even the creator will tell you he never envisioned that it would become what it has become. Ironically, information about mineral localities will become very critical in the next few decades. As one retired geologist of my acquaintance puts it, "not in my lifetime, and not quite in yours, but definitely in your children's, there will be a serious resource crisis if things keep going the way they are going." Don't be shocked if, in the year 2040, you get a letter from the government exercising eminent domain over your property in order to mine the samarium-laced vein that runs under your neighborhood... Pleasant dreams, Don From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Jan 16 15:33:33 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Jan 16 15:30:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Where's Waldo {was: Help with unknown minerals please?} References: <020001c4fc03$277c5e60$9fe4a5ce@D3JM7W21> <001501c4fc08$1e92eda0$bfa4490c@pete> Message-ID: <41EAF910.77B2@Tomaszewski.net> Hmmmmm. An open pit vaseline mine. Interesting image. Do they just scoop it out and plop it into jars? Are there signs around the edge warning of a slippery slope? Images of taking a sailboat cruise across the surface of a vaseline lake at the bottom of a big open pit... Kinda reminds me of Frank Zappa, 'Moving to Montana' to raise dental floss. Kreigh Peter J. Modreski wrote: > > Earl, you have just got to be more serious about this mineral stuff--none of > this joking around like this, please (someone might take it for factual). > And besides, as anyone knows who used to live in Alburquerque in the good > old days and read the alternative newspaper, _______ (my gosh, now I've > forgotten what the paper was called!), the Open Pit Vaseline Mine (the > world's largest) was located near Waldo, the former Santa Fe railroad stop > located midway between Cerrillos (turquoise mining capitol of Spanish > colonial N.M.) and the "Waldo Exit" (exit to nowhere, pretty much) on I-25 > midway between Santa Fe and Albuquerque. There, now I've straightened that > out. Maybe someone could enter some of this in Mindat. > > Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "SHM" > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > > Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 12:39 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Help with unknown minerals please? > > > > > A friend of mine, a world-renowned authority, has identified the top two > > specimens as petroleum crystals from the Jose Pinto vaseline mine in Los > > Lunas, New Mexico. > > > > Unfortunately he is not a world authority on minerals . . . > > > > Cheers- Earl Verbeek > > From adaml001 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 16 16:12:06 2005 From: adaml001 at yahoo.com (adam larson) Date: Sun Jan 16 16:12:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] stromatolites In-Reply-To: <200501162230.j0GMU3xB001056@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20050117001207.51744.qmail@web52310.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, I would be interested in trading my stromatolites for minerals and fossils. Please let me know. Thanks, Adam --- rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com wrote: > Send Rockhounds mailing list submissions to > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > visit > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > rockhounds-owner@lists.drizzle.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it > is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Rockhounds digest..." > > > [Rockhounds-Digest] > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: A little about myself (Peter J. Modreski) > 2. Re: Mindat Survival -- Making Shared Knowledge > Permanent > (Kreigh Tomaszewski) > 3. Re: Minnesota (Lapidry@aol.com) > 4. Mindat Survival -- Making Shared Knowledge > Permanent > (Kitty & Bill Heacox) > 5. Re: Re: Mindat Survival -- Making Shared > Knowledge Permanent > (Maurice de Graaf) > 6. Re: Re: Mindat Survival -- Making Shared > Knowledge Permanent > (Don H) > 7. Re: A little about myself (John and Gloria > Cornish) > 8. Re: Re: Mindat Survival -- Making Shared > Knowledge Permanent > (Maurice de Graaf) > 9. Re: Mindat Survival -- Making SharedKnowledge > Permanent > (Alan Goldstein) > 10. Re: Stromatolite Samples > (CrescentStoneINC@aol.com) > 11. Re: Re: Mindat Survival -- Making Shared > Knowledge Permanent > (Kreigh Tomaszewski) > 12. Re: International Directory of Micromounts > (Samstress17@aol.com) > 13. Re: Re: Mindat Survival -- Making Shared > Knowledge Permanent > (Kreigh Tomaszewski) > 14. Re: Re: Mindat Survival -- Making Shared > Knowledge Permanent > (Juergen Wachsmuth) > 15. Re: Re: Mindat Survival -- Making Shared > Knowledge Permanent > (Don H) > 16. RE: Help with unknown minerals please? (SHM) > 17. Re: Re: Mindat Survival -- Making Shared > Knowledge Permanent > (Jim Daly) > 18. RE: Re: Mindat Survival -- MakingShared > Knowledge Permanent > (Bob Loeffler) > 19. Re: Re: Mindat Survival -- MakingShared > Knowledge Permanent > (Don H) > 20. Re: Help with unknown minerals please? (Peter > J. Modreski) > 21. RE: Re: Mindat Survival --MakingShared > Knowledge Permanent (SHM) > 22. RE: Re: Mindat Survival-- MakingShared > Knowledge Permanent > (Bob Loeffler) > 23. Re: Re: Mindat Survival-- MakingShared > Knowledge Permanent > (Maurice de Graaf) > 24. RE: Re: MindatSurvival-- MakingShared > Knowledge Permanent > (Rik Dillen) > 25. Re: Re: Mindat Survival -- Making > SharedKnowledge Permanent > (T.A.Masters) > 26. Re: Minnesota (JOHN STOCKWELL) > 27. Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival-- > MakingShared Knowledge > Permanent (Don H) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 20:24:39 -0700 > From: "Peter J. Modreski" > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] A little about myself > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock > and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: <001d01c4fb7a$eb4eac00$a7a6490c@pete> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi Marcy, > > I know there are some gem and mineral clubs in NH > (as there are in every > state, of course) that would probably have info > about lapidary classes. > There's a nice gem & mineral show in the summer in, > I believe, Manchester NH > (I've only been to it once); those are also good > sources of info, as are any > of the local rock shops. I know of good rock shops > in North Conway, > Intervale, and a nice new little one in Rochester; I > don't know as much > about the central & western NH area. > > My Mom and my sister live in NH (seacoast area, > Somersworth), and I usually > visit them once a year; NH is always nice! > > Pete Modreski (Denver, CO) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marcy Purington" > To: > Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 3:45 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] A little about myself > > > > > > > > > > I am a 6th grade teacher that loves rocks. My > family and I have driven > cross country 4 times, checking out as many national > parks as possible, 154 > as of now. As we travel, I collect rocks. It is not > unusual for us to be > bringing back about 150 lbs of rocks. Now I am > getting to the point where I > need to start doing something with these rocks. My > youngest daughter and I > are taking a class on making silver jewelry and I > would like to learn how to > do some lapidary work and combine the two. I don't > know of anyone, or > anywhere around here in NH to take a class. Anyone > with some info that wants > to share I would love to hear from them. > > > > Thankyou, > > > > Marcy P. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > text/html (html body -- converted) > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 23:32:00 -0500 > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- Making > Shared Knowledge > Permanent > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock > and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: <41E9EE21.6FBB@Tomaszewski.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I deleted the thread about MinDat's ability to > sustain itself into the > future, but I had more thoughts on the issue. > > Mindat is currently accessed via the web. What if > MinDat could take an > annual snapshot of the web and load it onto a CD you > could access with > your browser? It might require more than one CD, and > it might require > installing compressed files to your hard disk -- > details. === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From lanny at lrream.com Sun Jan 16 16:30:39 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sun Jan 16 16:28:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- Making Shared Knowledge Permanent In-Reply-To: <41E9EE21.6FBB@Tomaszewski.net> References: <41E9EE21.6FBB@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <035ACC54-681F-11D9-8FBF-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Due to certain winter-related actions going on, snow, below zero temperatures, and such things I didn't complete writing a response to Kreigh's message for several hours. I'm glad that happened. The responses have changed my mind on what I was going to write. It seems like this has gone in a whole different direction than what I thought was Kreigh's intent. I don't think the problem with minerals and locality information on Mindat is at the detail or level recent messages have discussed. The problem isn't that any mineral can be verified at the level that most highly respected mineralogists could support the data, back it up or come up with the same answers. After all, all mineral publications have errors, Identifications change over time as instruments improve. Amphiboles change identify at the drop of a rockhammer! I have three indentifications now for the zalesiite (original identification from a good mineralogist) that was identified from a find I made in Idaho. Each identification is based on a minuscule variation and interpretation of an element or two and/or slight variation in structural data. Which is right? Either one of the three would be believed if the mineralogist wrote up the information. That kind of "proof" for data on Mindat is not needed and not the problem. The problem is the fact that anyone can supply information with no guideline as to what data is posted. Accuracy is a difficult concept to maintain or prove in some mineral identifications, and in identifying or proving existence at any locality. Data from every mineral periodical, no matter how well supported by knowledgeable and experienced mineralogists and geologists can be in error. Ask anyone about the respect that The Mineralogical Record has earned over the years, yet any knowledgeable person will have no problem finding errors on mineral identifications and localities in pages of that monthly. And these are articles that are reviewed by more than one other "expert" before being published. Also, not all the data in the mineral periodicals comes from an expert. They all will publish articles from readers, if the article is well written and as reviewed by the expert editors appears to be "accurate," it will be published. Yet anyone of you reading this, could write an article, research it through all scientific journals previously written on the location, add the recent information from your own experiences and that from talking with other collectors, yet in error, also list the pyrargyrite you found at the location that was identified by everyone in you club, and if it seemed reasonable for that mineral to be there, then it wouldn't be questioned, would be publishe, even though it was wrong and the mineral was actually proustite. Mindat could earn that level of respect, but not the way it is done now. I respect Jolyon and the work he has done creating the website (and emailed him recently with support and suggestions) but I don't use it. Getting back to Kerigh's original question, I have all sorts of mineralogy books in my library, and a computer database that I have been selling for several years, before Mindat existed which I use to look up mineral data, and search when I need to search on various characteristics. I haven't used Mindat to look up photographs yet, but believe that it I will sometime. I have used it in the past to look for mineral locations, but have never found one that is useful. In Idaho or Washington the locations are either those that I already know, or have come from the publications I have (or wrote), or the rare one that is new and potentially useful has no reference and is vague. There is a place for simple listings, such as "xx mineral occurrs on xy mountain," I've written some myself. But if you are looking for a location where you might be interested in collecting, such a listing as that is useless. If the reference was there at least you might be able to look it up. Recently I used Mindat to look up Alaska locations. There were only two that looked like they might be of use, and they both had GPS lat/lon coordinates. Looked fantastic! I was ready to go, it's only a short drive up.... No such luck. Granted it is possible that the locations are in fact correct: barroisite and stibnite listed as Fairbanks, but I probably couldn't actually get to collect in town because the lat/lon coordinates provided are in fact for Fairbanks. The other, amethyst near Tok, again, the lat/lon is the town. So, for me, the locality information was again completely useless. There is no reference, so again, there is no chance of looking it up and determining where the minerals occurrences are actually located. As an experienced publisher of a monthly mineral newsletter, publisher and author of several mineral books and mineral software, I would say that Mindat has little chance of being a commercially viable product sold on CD. There is too much competition in various formats, and we are too small of an audience. It may work to sell it at a "low" price to raise money to help support the web site, because it should take little effort to put the web site on a CD. Before that is done though, the locality information should be redone and fixed as needed. At the least, each entry should have a reference and the user can use their own judgment as to the accuracy, and look up the reference to learn more, such as where the site actually is located. If the data is only from a personal experience source, the user can decide if the data is useful or not. Regards, Lanny On Jan 15, 2005, at 8:32 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > I deleted the thread about MinDat's ability to sustain itself into the > future, but I had more thoughts on the issue. > > Mindat is currently accessed via the web. What if MinDat could take an > annual snapshot of the web and load it onto a CD you could access with > your browser? It might require more than one CD, and it might require > installing compressed files to your hard disk -- details. > > What would you pay for a personal copy of MinDat? How much would you be > willing to pay for an annual update with all the changes made during > the > previous year? > > MinDat is a major application. How much did you pay for your major > software packages? How much do you pay for your tax software every > year? > Or your annual subscription to your antivirus software? > > New feature for a personal edition might be a way to automatically log > into the online version from your registered copy, and make submissions > automagically by selecting files from your disk. Another one might be a > way to add your personal collection into your copy. > > If you think outside the box, you can see the box. PC prices have hit > $500. Would you buy a $1000-1500, internet ready, computer if it had > MinDat preloaded? > > How much would you pay for MinDat, THE Mineral Book, 2007 edition? > > And if something ever happened to the online version, the collected > knowledge would not be lost. > > We've been thru this issue before. Some of you may remember when Aaron > took over Administration of this list from Tom. Some of you may > remember > when Hale Sweeny retired The Lapidary Digest -- his list archives were > taken over and are still online. There have been a number of other > expert resources that have been lost outside of the Internet's Museum > of > Websites, www.archive.org; and like any Museum, they have limited > resources and purge old, unused/unaccessed, collections over time, and > I've lost final access to some old favorites. > > Making Internet gathered, shared, knowledge permanent is a serious > issue, and a lot more areas of interest than Rockhounding are affected. > > Kreigh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sun Jan 16 16:53:22 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sun Jan 16 16:43:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: MindatSurvival-- MakingShared Knowledge Permanent References: <200501162119.j0GLJ9e5018359@outmx002.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: <006501c4fc2e$f2ba3040$41a5490c@pete> Another "Hi all" comment on this topic, I think Mindat is a very useful resource in finding information about minerals. Of course, it's not perfect (nothing is), it doesn't have everything, and it isn't the only possible resource for any given info. There are other web databases for data on mineral, such as Athena Mineralogy for one. Whatever source of info one uses, one always has to consider that the data may, for any of many, many reasons, not be completely correct; inaccurate, "hearsay" info can work its way into the printed literature as well as the www, though certainly, there's greater likelihood of unreliable data in a user-created web site. But any published mineralogical source can contain errors and inaccuracies, no matter how hard the authors/editors/publishers have tried to avoid it, and sometimes they do better than other times--witness the large number of errata (not erotica) in "Dana's New Mineralogy. Plus, new things are always being learned, and what is accepted as hard fact about a mineral in one year or decade, may be totally revised in the next. When I'm researching a mineral in the literature, I'll often look up all the available sources, both internet and hard-copy publications. Obviously, the greater level of detail or precision of data that one needs, the more thorough one would search the net & literature. Sometimes just a single source, which confirms what one suspected, will be sufficient, to answer a casual question; other times, one needs to go the whole 9 yards (why 9? 99?) and check everywhere--Mindat, other databases, the various editions of Dana, the Handbook of Mineralogy, the Encyclopedia of Minerals, Hey, GEOREF, googling on the internet, etc., etc. If one looks thoroughly, one will almost find a number of contradictory "facts", and one has to use judgement to sort out the true ones from the chaff. It's the same in doing first-hand research on a mineral; often a simple test, or one measurement (such as refractive index) may suffice; other times, to really be sure of a conclusion, one needs to make several different measurements, to be assured that they all agree. That was one of the worthy precepts that the late Eugene Foord would often state, and with which I heartily agree-that to be sure of a mineral identity, one should use two or more different techniques, and confirm that they agree--for example, XRD, optics, and chemical analysis (by microprobe or other means). Most of the time, one method will suffice to give you the right result; but if you REALLY need to be sure of what you have, you do more. The stories mentioned about mislabeled/miscollected specimens (the Franklin amethyst) make me think about the problem (one of many possible problems) of loose crystals, without matrix, attributed to a locality that seems very unusual. How is one to know--say, a single, well-formed galena crystal attributed to a locality that is not normally known to have well crystallized galena; often, there may be no way to ever know if it's correct. In general, I would say that this makes specimens with no matrix or no associations, less valuable and scientifically useful than would otherwise be the case, unless perhaps they are accompanied by "very convincing" written documentation of exactly where, when, and by whom they were collected. Well, I could write on, but I think I've babbled long enough for one person on this topic! Pete Modreski From dri.anna at verizon.net Sun Jan 16 18:23:54 2005 From: dri.anna at verizon.net (Dri-Anna) Date: Sun Jan 16 18:24:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Euchroite Message-ID: <003401c4fc3b$977984d0$6401a8c0@Dri> http://webmineral.com/data/Euchroite.shtml Dri-Anna Davis WA - USA http://www.twospirit.net/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From hbarwood at troyst.edu Sun Jan 16 18:37:30 2005 From: hbarwood at troyst.edu (Henry Barwood) Date: Sun Jan 16 18:35:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] International Directory of Micromounts In-Reply-To: <111.419ef8bb.2f1c0611@aol.com> Message-ID: I use a CP 990 with a home-made adapter on an SMZ-10 scope. Some initial attempts at digital imaging may be found at: http://spectrum.troyst.edu/~barwood/Field%20Trips%20Title%20Page.htm Hope to add a lot more content, and better images, as I progress. Would be glad to talk with you about techniques. Henry Barwood Associate Professor of Science, Earth Science Department of Math and Physics MSCX 312G Troy State University Troy, Alabama 36082 hbarwood@troyst.edu -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Samstress17@aol.com Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 12:02 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] International Directory of Micromounts Hello all- Speaking of micromounts and other small specimens, does anyone in this group use a digital camera to photograph their rocks? If so, what camera do you recommend? I looked at a Nikon Coolpix 4800, and the 8x optical zoom seemed to be much better than the 3x. Just thought I would throw that out- I would like to put together an online collection of my stuff- I have some really nice pieces and would love to share them with other rockhounds. Thanks in advance- Sam from Philly --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sun Jan 16 19:20:34 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun Jan 16 19:20:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Interesting Gold Hill (Utah) specimen References: <111.419ef8bb.2f1c0611@aol.com> Message-ID: <005c01c4fc43$8237f450$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I just photographed an interesting specimen that I didn't even know existed until a few minutes ago. I have been going through some unidentified minerals from the 80-foot level of the Gold Hill mine. One specimen had several pockets with goethite pseudomorphs after smithsonite crystals. One of those crystals is unright, draped with a cap of cuprian adamite. It looks like a mushroom! Here is the url: http://www.mindat.org/picshow.php?id=26717 Alan From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Jan 16 21:02:20 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Jan 16 20:58:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- Making Shared Knowledge Permanent Message-ID: <41EB45F5.D6F@Tomaszewski.net> Whew! I think the water has become laden with sediment and its pretty murky. Let me try a different stream. The Internet has been a great benefit by allowing search engines to gain easy access to information from many diverse sources. 'Expert' websites perform a similar function for a specific subject area. The internet has also facilitated the gathering of interest communities; you can join an online club (like the one we are having this discussion in) and reach a wide collection of people interested in some subject matter. Some will be true experts, some will be novices looking for knowledge, but with a global community there will be more of them than your local club can draw. I'm not putting down local clubs. They provide personal resources and training that just don't work well over the internet. They need to survive to keep our Rockhounding hobby alive. I think they can be made stronger if they learn to tap the wider internet community as a resource. The club structure that developed has local, state, regional, and national levels for sharing orginazation, information, and best practices. Monthly or quarterly (and annual) newsletters and meetings at various levels make it all work (with a lot of volunteer effort). The model works for most subject areas at the hobby or professional level. The traditional way of some hobbiest sharing some learned tidbit of knowledge is to get it published in the local club newsletter, which is shared with many other local members and other clubs, usually via their newsletter editor. But a lot of this information doesn't get picked up or get republished because it seems unimportant (from the perspective of someone 1000 miles away). Searchable archives (think of your friend Google) of old club newsletters would be a wonderful resource. Ten cuidado; hold caution. You still need to evaluate the source of what you found, and compare it to other sources. When you Google something and get less than a page of conflicting hits you know that more research is needed. When you get thousands of hits, many of them authoritative, all saying the same thing you can probably accept the information at face value. When you get millions of hits you know you didn't ask a specific enough question. In many ways, MinDat is trying to systematically collect information (more on that later) related to minerals and rockhounding, by leveraging the power of the internet's wider shared community. But it costs money to be on the internet. If a website is going to last, it takes more than the dedication and support of one person. If MinDat is going to continue to grow and survive it needs to grow up and become independent, and self-supporting. I understood the goal of the discussion topic was to explore ways MinDat could do this. BTW, the 'open source' software community has already demonstrated that this can be done, so there is at least one viable model available. Wikipedia gives another. Now MinDat is collecting several types of information, and they tend to be somewhat cautious in publishing non-authoritave details. This is generally a good idea. Left Turn! How do you use MinDat? It is convenient, and faster, to get common factual information about any given mineral on MinDat, than to pull down several books and look up the information. I can trust MinDat on this as well as I can trust my favorite reference books. Location information, when available, regarding geopolitical description, is usually very good, and more detailed than the label I am looking at. The documented/cited list of found minerals at that location helps evaluate the validity of the specimen I am looking at, but I find missing minerals (and locations) too often; I think the publication standard is too high. The typical field guide or reference seldom has more than three pictures of any given mineral specie. I find it helpful to see pictures from several locations when narrowing down the identification of an unknown specie. I find it reassuring to find several pictures from an attributed locaton that closely resemble the specimen I acquired. I use MinDat as a field guide. I want to keep it around. It is a heck of a lot more convenient than the references the IMA makes available on all accepted minerals. I would like to have my own copy so the information is not lost due to issues outside of my control. So what is missing? I mentioned that I thought the publication standard was too high. Today I can look up a mineral and get trusted basic information, and, optionally, attributed source information, and related pictures. I should also have the option of viewing unpublished/unattributed information that has been submitted. It would help if there was a way to verify/validate the unpublished/unattributed details (and rank it by the number of registered users doing so). The question remains, how does MinDat continue to grow, become more useful to our Rockhounding community, and become self-supporting, so the collected knowledge does not become lost? Kreigh From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jan 17 03:02:52 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jan 17 03:02:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- Making Shared KnowledgePermanent In-Reply-To: <41EB45F5.D6F@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Hi guys, I think that Kreigh has a point! Maybe I should add my 2 cents: Some of us fear the "contamination" of reliable scientific data if "amateurs" start spreading non-confirmed data. On that subject I have two remarks: First: amateurs are important. They often do the jobs that nobody else will because there's no profit in it! No company will investigate the fluorescence of some obscure calcite from an obscure location. An amateur WOULD like to know and is likely to send a specimen to the lab for investigation. Not always, perhaps, but we're getting there... Amateurs, however, don't read or speak scientese. As a result they avoid the standard scientific literature and stack their bookshelves with "field guides" or "Mineral Encyclopedia" that have been translated from Czech into Mandarin by a Corsican shrimp fisher and back to English by a blind Mongolian shaman. And then we wonder that silly stuff trickles down to the internet. I have read some of those and I'm still horror-struck. If professional geologists want to reduce the amount of quackery on non-professional but well-intended mineralogy sites, they should perhaps come out of their ivory towers and start writing for the common people too from time to time. If they leave the writing of "accessible" books or publications to reporters or other non-scientist, they are the problem instead of being part of the solution. Second: There a no pure and uncontaminated things in this universe. There is no absolute vacuum, no pure water, no perfect bliss... only approximations of perfection. Therefore, purism is an idle quest and purists are sad creatures, condemned to eternal frustration. Even in the holiest halls of science, thoughts can be contaminating! The greatest minds in human history are still human and therefore fallible. Think of Albert Einstein... He was perhaps the greatest genius ever but still... he did add the "Cosmological constant" to his theory to make the universe "static". That decision was not based on sound research, but on a dogmatic idea... Einstein admitted this publicly after Hubble discovered the red shift. Basically, I feel that the conclusion of the above should be: Laymen or amateurs should listen to the seasoned professional instead of seeking their own way... They should provide the questions that the mineralogist must find the answer to. Professionals should come off their thrones (just those that are on it, of course! Present company excluded ;-)and walk among the people... start educating. Unconstructive criticism from either side will only push the opinions further apart and heighten the barricades. So: peace brothers and remember the words of the mighty Lennon: "Come together, right now!" Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski Verzonden: maandag 17 januari 2005 6:02 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- Making Shared KnowledgePermanent Whew! I think the water has become laden with sediment and its pretty murky. Let me try a different stream. The Internet has been a great benefit by allowing search engines to gain easy access to information from many diverse sources. 'Expert' websites perform a similar function for a specific subject area. The internet has also facilitated the gathering of interest communities; you can join an online club (like the one we are having this discussion in) and reach a wide collection of people interested in some subject matter. Some will be true experts, some will be novices looking for knowledge, but with a global community there will be more of them than your local club can draw. I'm not putting down local clubs. They provide personal resources and training that just don't work well over the internet. They need to survive to keep our Rockhounding hobby alive. I think they can be made stronger if they learn to tap the wider internet community as a resource. The club structure that developed has local, state, regional, and national levels for sharing orginazation, information, and best practices. Monthly or quarterly (and annual) newsletters and meetings at various levels make it all work (with a lot of volunteer effort). The model works for most subject areas at the hobby or professional level. The traditional way of some hobbiest sharing some learned tidbit of knowledge is to get it published in the local club newsletter, which is shared with many other local members and other clubs, usually via their newsletter editor. But a lot of this information doesn't get picked up or get republished because it seems unimportant (from the perspective of someone 1000 miles away). Searchable archives (think of your friend Google) of old club newsletters would be a wonderful resource. Ten cuidado; hold caution. You still need to evaluate the source of what you found, and compare it to other sources. When you Google something and get less than a page of conflicting hits you know that more research is needed. When you get thousands of hits, many of them authoritative, all saying the same thing you can probably accept the information at face value. When you get millions of hits you know you didn't ask a specific enough question. In many ways, MinDat is trying to systematically collect information (more on that later) related to minerals and rockhounding, by leveraging the power of the internet's wider shared community. But it costs money to be on the internet. If a website is going to last, it takes more than the dedication and support of one person. If MinDat is going to continue to grow and survive it needs to grow up and become independent, and self-supporting. I understood the goal of the discussion topic was to explore ways MinDat could do this. BTW, the 'open source' software community has already demonstrated that this can be done, so there is at least one viable model available. Wikipedia gives another. Now MinDat is collecting several types of information, and they tend to be somewhat cautious in publishing non-authoritave details. This is generally a good idea. Left Turn! How do you use MinDat? It is convenient, and faster, to get common factual information about any given mineral on MinDat, than to pull down several books and look up the information. I can trust MinDat on this as well as I can trust my favorite reference books. Location information, when available, regarding geopolitical description, is usually very good, and more detailed than the label I am looking at. The documented/cited list of found minerals at that location helps evaluate the validity of the specimen I am looking at, but I find missing minerals (and locations) too often; I think the publication standard is too high. The typical field guide or reference seldom has more than three pictures of any given mineral specie. I find it helpful to see pictures from several locations when narrowing down the identification of an unknown specie. I find it reassuring to find several pictures from an attributed locaton that closely resemble the specimen I acquired. I use MinDat as a field guide. I want to keep it around. It is a heck of a lot more convenient than the references the IMA makes available on all accepted minerals. I would like to have my own copy so the information is not lost due to issues outside of my control. So what is missing? I mentioned that I thought the publication standard was too high. Today I can look up a mineral and get trusted basic information, and, optionally, attributed source information, and related pictures. I should also have the option of viewing unpublished/unattributed information that has been submitted. It would help if there was a way to verify/validate the unpublished/unattributed details (and rank it by the number of registered users doing so). The question remains, how does MinDat continue to grow, become more useful to our Rockhounding community, and become self-supporting, so the collected knowledge does not become lost? Kreigh _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From adamsanane at yahoo.com Mon Jan 17 05:21:43 2005 From: adamsanane at yahoo.com (adam sanora) Date: Mon Jan 17 05:21:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD:TUCSON SHOW INVITATION Message-ID: <20050117132143.77299.qmail@web41103.mail.yahoo.com> Hello Folks , We are the mining company only specialized in extraction and exportation of Turkish origin semi precious and precious stones in Turkey . We will be exhibiting in PUEBLO INN GEM AND MINERAL SHOW through 29 JANUARY – 10 FEBRUARY ( COURT TENT - 417 ) . Our main products Purple Chalcedony , BlueChalcedony , Vein type Blue Chalcedony , New Botryoidal Blue Chalcedony ( rough , cabs , collector pieces ) , Natural Drusy Blue Chalcedony ( Rough ,Cabs ) , New Exceptional Deep Drusy Blue ( cabs , collector pieces ) , Very Rare Color Change Diaspore ( FACETED STONES ( Top Cutting Quality ) , Facet Grade Rough , cabs , collector pieces from affordable to huge museum grade ) , Rare Wood Opals ( Opalized wood fossils ) , Red /Brown agate , Purple Jadeite , Kammererite , Small nodular opals ( honey , orange , yellow , greenish ) , Blocky opals upto 40 kg ( honey , yellow , amber looking , Black , Scotch Butter , yellow with red stripes ) , Moss Opal , White Opal etc. will be displayed at our stand . We invite you to see our products . Regards , Adam Truva Mining Ltd . __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Mon Jan 17 08:07:23 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Mon Jan 17 08:07:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mindat localities References: Message-ID: <001b01c4fcae$a1aec0f0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I have not seen anyone comment about sources and "quality" of locality information. 1.) Could someone going through a book or magazine and input that in "mindat," or would that be a gross violation of international copyright laws? 2.) Is mindat going to be dependent on those sites that have only been visited by a mindat contributor, or is it okay to list locality information based on a specimen label from what you hope is a credible source? 3.) Should mindat have a "mandatory" reference for localities when the source isn't a personal visit? That may not be the exact word, but if a user is putting in a locality into the database from a published source, shouldn't that source accompany the locality information? 4.) What about the most "up-to-date" locality information. I realize one CAN list all of the locations' synonyms. Companies are bought and sold regularly. The Irvington Stone Co. became the Kentucky Stone Co. Irvington Quarry which became the Hanson Aggregates Midwest Irvington Quarry. Collectors will have specimens with three different labels if they collected there over the past 40 years. But which name is the PRIMARY name for mindat? I would suggest the last one, but I know people who collect there and still label the site Irvington Quarry. True, it is the only quarry near Irvington, but that isn't the complete name for the quarry. Alan From jr50wv at yahoo.com Mon Jan 17 08:30:17 2005 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Mon Jan 17 08:30:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] This email listserv never fails to astound me! Message-ID: <20050117163017.46788.qmail@web41008.mail.yahoo.com> Hi: I get rockhounds@lists.drizzle as a digest, sometimes short and sometimes long. Sometimes it's funny, close to hilarious, and sometimes it's a little sad, when obits are posted or great geological tragedies are discussed. But it never fails to be interesting, like the most recent long diggest. There's a great discussion of Jolyon Ralph's Mindat (Hi Jolyon!) taking place, and I feel compelled to pitch in with my own $0.02 worth. The arguement about Mindat and its authoritativeness or lack thereof parallels an arguement about Wikipedia, an online encyclopedia updated by the internet population, much like MinDat is updated by the rockhounding and geological community. Various folks have called Wikipedia everything BUT authoritative, as certain subjects are taken over by a subset of the population in order to put their own (often peculiar) position into the Wiki over the attempts of others to be more objective (or to push their own peculiar agenda). But then others will select a subject characterized by the fast motion of modern times and compare information in the Wiki (for example the Space Shuttle disasters or tsunamiis) with the available info in (for example) Brittanica, which fails the test becaise it isn't continually updated by a large and open community. Thus they prove that the newer form of internet-updated encyclopedia is far superior at least sometimes. Another example of a swiftly modified and evolving aggregate of information is Groklaw, where everything about certain operating systems and their historical evolution and changing legal status is collected by an open community. In the case of Groklaw, the creator and moderator, Pamela Jones, exercises total control to assure accuracy and attempt to maintain a high level of discourse. If Jolyon Ralph didn't already have 3 full-time jobs, I imagine he would enjoy working on MinDat full-time to enforce a more rigorous level of identification. But rocks do have "the other side" as one well-educated member of the list showed us the other day, and mineralogy is, as we are learning together, very complicated. For some who say, "my paper books have far more information than MinDat" about a given slice of minerology, to you I say, get with the plan and enter that information into the database, with proper attribution. The attribution keeps things on the level, that's how scientific information is meant to be used. I think the idea of spreading MinDat to other archieval servers, or to distribute it on DVDs (which hold far more information and begining to replace CDs as an information exchange and storage medium) at some reasonable cost is a good one. I for one would love to take a copy of MinDat into the field! And another thing: What if a bus hits Jolyon? THis is an unhappy question that Information Technology workers have to deal with at work every day; so please don't nail me for imagining a catastrophe. This unhappy question is why commercial systems have documentation requirements and daily backups. Making the accumulated wisdom of any large database available in the context of an institution that has the infrastructure to continue over a long period, like the British Museum or Oxford University (in England) or the Library of Congress or Ibiblio (a internet-based library and archive project at the University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill: http://www.ibiblio.org/) in the US may be a better answer, tho. Perhaps there is a mineralogical institution that would be willing to adopt MinDat to ensure the continued availability of the accumulated wisdom? There's another constructive thought about providing continuation. I'm trying to come up with a suggestion to address improving the data as well. So far my only thought is for naysayers to get with the plan and start fixing things. But MinDat is (Way!!) too cool to let either naysayers or those who enter less than perfectly attributed information chill the warm feeling I get when I visit and browse through the pictures and locality descriptions. Keep up the good work, Jolyon! And all the mineralogists, collectors and mineral dealers who enter data there! JR in West Virginia __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Mon Jan 17 09:59:02 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Mon Jan 17 09:51:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- Making SharedKnowledgePermanent References: Message-ID: <006401c4fcbe$4a53acc0$70a3490c@pete> Just a few more comments to share about Mindat... And my first is, to be honest, I don't really use Mindat all that much (perhaps I feel a little "guilty" admitting this--under-using a useful and available resource?), but as I kind of referred to in my post about it from the other day, it's just one of many on- and off-line resources for mineral info that I sometimes use. However, the discussions about Mindat on this List, not just in the past week or two but in the past several months, will probably remind me to look at it more often and see if I can't make more use of it. Certainly, discussions here have "raised my consciousness" about Mindat and what info it may hold (caveats notwithstanding about absolute accuracy of info there). But in regard to the original question about, would people be willing to pay to maintain it (if that were necessary) on a subscription basis, my own answer (at least as of now, or in the past) would have been, no, not particularly, not for a web database that I perhaps have looked at in a very casual way, maybe once every couple of weeks or less, with the feeling that if it wasn't available, I'd just look for the information I needed elsewhere. Just being honest here! I wonder if the Mindat website keeps any kind of record of its number of hits, or the number of different users. My guess (which could be quite wrong, of course) would be that aside from a large number of casual users who probably go to it just to look up some simple fact about a mineral, the number of "heavy" users may be quite small, and my impression (again, possibly quite wrong) would be that those few people who write a lot about it for this List, may well constitute the biggest segment of its regular users--i.e., the number of people who'd readily "subscribe" to it may number only in the dozens, hardly what would be needed to support it. (Like I said, maybe I'm totally off base here.) Just a vignette about using Mindat, yesterday I used it out of curiosity to look up what was there about a mineral from a particular locality, re. a specimen I just bought yesterday at a local club mineral show. I bought a nice miniature-size (i.e., it's about 2x3 inches) specimen (I like it!) of dark gray barite crystals on matrix, from Cavnic (Kapnikbanya), Romania. It has a short but interesting "pedigree"; the original typed label is in German ("Baryt xx grau durch Jamesonit"), then the label of the dealer I bought it from, Joe Dorris (Glacier Peak minerals), of Colorado Springs, says it was from the collection of Laszlo Dudas, a former Colorado dealer & collector. The bladed crystals are nice and large (largest is over 1 inch long), and though repaired (one crystal had been broken), I thought the price was "a real deal" (especially compared to the original, penciled-in price (pre-breakage and repair, I'm sure) on the German label). [The complete locality name is given as "Cavnic, Judenul Maramures, Rumanien".] So anyway, I was curious as to what Mindat might have to say about barite from Kapnikbanya. The first thing I learned via Mindat was to read, rather surprisingly to me, that the official "IMA-approved" name for this mineral species is "Baryte", not barite. Imagine that! We all tend to be very provincial and forget about how mineral names do get transmuted into different spellings in different languages, and of course I tend to think that "only the Brits" write "baryte" or "barytes", and that that is their little own provincial thing, and of course the spelling that we Americans use must be "THE" correct spelling--well, maybe that's not always true. Other than this, I don't have much more of a story--barite (or should I say, baryte, which is where one must look it up in the alphabetical Mindat index) is only just listed as occurring at Kapnikbanya, no other descriptive data and no pictures posted. I thought perhaps I might learn something there about how common the dark gray, jamesonite-included (assuming that's what it is) barite crystals are. I suppose this just points up what has been said in the List discussion about the data in Mindat--there's a LOT more than can readily be added, and yes, it does seem that Mindat would be a good or perhaps ideal place for people to collect all this potential data. Now obviously, if I wanted to know more about opaque-included barite from Cavnic, I'd look in the Min. Record index, etc ., etc., etc., for other sources of articles that might describe it, and I'm sure I'd find something. That's all--no more comments right now, Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 4:02 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- Making SharedKnowledgePermanent From rik.dillen at skynet.be Mon Jan 17 10:49:34 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Mon Jan 17 10:49:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- MakingSharedKnowledgePermanent In-Reply-To: <006401c4fcbe$4a53acc0$70a3490c@pete> Message-ID: <200501171849.j0HInZNp004386@outmx012.isp.belgacom.be> Hi Pete et al, Sorry, but if the Glossary of Mineral Species (where, as far as I know, only officially accepted names are used) says "barite", than it is barite, and not baryte. I think that in this case there is an error in the MINDAT database. I checked it, and indeed MINDAT says "baryte". This is typically a case where I would check an official reference (such as the Glossary) if I'm writing an article e.g. But that does not devaluate MINDAT in my opinion. Greetings, Rik -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Peter J. Modreski Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 6:59 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- MakingSharedKnowledgePermanent Just a few more comments to share about Mindat... ... ... ... ... So anyway, I was curious as to what Mindat might have to say about barite from Kapnikbanya. The first thing I learned via Mindat was to read, rather surprisingly to me, that the official "IMA-approved" name for this mineral species is "Baryte", not barite. Imagine that! We all tend to be very provincial and forget about how mineral names do get transmuted into different spellings in different languages, and of course I tend to think that "only the Brits" write "baryte" or "barytes", and that that is their little own provincial thing, and of course the spelling that we Americans use must be "THE" correct spelling--well, maybe that's not always true. Other than this, I don't have much more of a story--barite (or should I say, baryte, which is where one must look it up in the alphabetical Mindat index) is only just listed as occurring at Kapnikbanya, no other descriptive data and no pictures posted. I thought perhaps I might learn something there about how common the dark gray, jamesonite-included (assuming that's what it is) barite crystals are. I suppose this just points up what has been said in the List discussion about the data in Mindat--there's a LOT more than can readily be added, and yes, it does seem that Mindat would be a good or perhaps ideal place for people to collect all this potential data. Now obviously, if I wanted to know more about opaque-included barite from Cavnic, I'd look in the Min. Record index, etc ., etc., etc., for other sources of articles that might describe it, and I'm sure I'd find something. From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Mon Jan 17 12:36:52 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:27:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- MakingSharedKnowledgePermanent References: <200501171849.j0HInZNp004386@outmx012.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: <000901c4fcd4$4877e5e0$0ea4490c@pete> Yes, Rik, I agree, I'd certainly use the Glossary of Minerals as a guide rather than Mindat in this case, and I didn't intend to go around and replace "barite" with baryte in anything I ever write or edit, on this basis. And I wouldn't knock Mindat for it, either--it's no big deal, though I do wonder, where that "pronouncement" came from--it did make me assume, that somewhere, the IMA really does have such a statement on file?. After all, I would assume that this mineral name for BaSO4 originated in England (at least, the English version of it--perhaps "Baryt", auf deutsch, was first?), so I wouldn't be surprised if I were told that "baryte" had historical priority over "barite". Well, hey, what's the difference, they are all good names with a long background. Viva la diversite! (is that good French, whether or not I can type the accent mark?) Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rik Dillen" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 11:49 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- MakingSharedKnowledgePermanent > Hi Pete et al, > > Sorry, but if the Glossary of Mineral Species (where, as far as I know, only > officially accepted names are used) says "barite", than it is barite, and > not baryte. I think that in this case there is an error in the MINDAT > database. I checked it, and indeed MINDAT says "baryte". This is typically a > case where I would check an official reference (such as the Glossary) if I'm > writing an article e.g. But that does not devaluate MINDAT in my opinion. > > Greetings, > > Rik > From william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu Mon Jan 17 13:13:03 2005 From: william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu (William Cordua) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:13:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- MakingSharedKnowledgePermanent In-Reply-To: <200501171849.j0HInZNp004386@outmx012.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: I want to go on record as being a MIN-DAT fan. I refer students to it frequently to do class projects, both in my geology 101 courses and in mineralogy. Like all large data bases, there are clearly errors, and I advise my students to cross check information received on the web. It is an enormous resource, however for mineral enthusiasts at all levels, and I salute those who have assembled and maintain it. I personally shudder when I think of all the data I've put into my on-line Minerals of Wisconsin data base and how easy it is to make typos and other errors. I suggest that as errors are found, the site organizers be told so they can correct them. I know when typos on my data base are reported, I go to the files as fast as I can to correct them. Happy new year - Dr. Bill Dr. William S. Cordua Professor of Geology/Mineralogy University of Wisconsin - River Falls 410 South Third Street River Falls, WI 54022 715-425-3139 william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu http://www.uwrf.edu/~william.s.cordua/ "Speak to the Earth and it shall teach thee" - Job 12:8 on 1/17/05 12:49 PM, Rik Dillen at rik.dillen@skynet.be wrote: > Hi Pete et al, > > Sorry, but if the Glossary of Mineral Species (where, as far as I know, only > officially accepted names are used) says "barite", than it is barite, and > not baryte. I think that in this case there is an error in the MINDAT > database. I checked it, and indeed MINDAT says "baryte". This is typically a > case where I would check an official reference (such as the Glossary) if I'm > writing an article e.g. But that does not devaluate MINDAT in my opinion. > > Greetings, > > Rik > From rik.dillen at skynet.be Mon Jan 17 13:57:32 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:57:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- MakingSharedKnowledgePermanent In-Reply-To: <000901c4fcd4$4877e5e0$0ea4490c@pete> Message-ID: <200501172157.j0HLvXRX004000@outmx005.isp.belgacom.be> -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Peter J. Modreski Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 9:37 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- MakingSharedKnowledgePermanent Yes, Rik, I agree, I'd certainly use the Glossary of Minerals as a guide rather than Mindat in this case, and I didn't intend to go around and replace "barite" with baryte in anything I ever write or edit, on this basis. And I wouldn't knock Mindat for it, either--it's no big deal, though I do wonder, where that "pronouncement" came from--it did make me assume, that somewhere, the IMA really does have such a statement on file?. After all, I would assume that this mineral name for BaSO4 originated in England (at least, the English version of it--perhaps "Baryt", auf deutsch, was first?), so I wouldn't be surprised if I were told that "baryte" had historical priority over "barite". Well, hey, what's the difference, they are all good names with a long background. Viva la diversite! (is that good French, whether or not I can type the accent mark?) >>>>> Yes (but French is also for me my second language). To be completely correct : "Vive la diversit?". And indeed, I think that baryt (German) or baryte (old English-English) has historical priority. But I think that less confusion would exist if everybody used the same terminology to the extend that it is possible. Greetings, and as you stated : it is not a big deal... Rik Dillen From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jan 17 15:10:35 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jan 17 15:10:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Was:Help with unknown minerals please? now bacck to mining songs In-Reply-To: <020001c4fc03$277c5e60$9fe4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: Yo Earl, Vaseline mine??? This fits nicely in the miners-song thread... "Grease", sung by John Travolta and Olivia Newton-John. Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens SHM Verzonden: zondag 16 januari 2005 20:40 Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Help with unknown minerals please? A friend of mine, a world-renowned authority, has identified the top two specimens as petroleum crystals from the Jose Pinto vaseline mine in Los Lunas, New Mexico. Unfortunately he is not a world authority on minerals . . . Cheers- Earl Verbeek -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Dan Z Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 3:26 PM To: Rockhound list danielz frm; Rocks-Fossils list (egroups) Subject: [Rockhounds] Help with unknown minerals please? I just came across a couple of things in a box from an old private collection. A 100kbyte picture is at http://www.manyfacets.com/unknown.jpg The top two pieces actually appear much more yellowish than in this picture. Field of view of the picture is 4 inches. These pieces are fully transparent, very light (low specific gravity), and appear to have been soaked or coated with a heavy oil. < snip, slash, cut> -dan z- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockcurrier at cs.com Mon Jan 17 17:28:26 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Mon Jan 17 17:18:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mindat reliability References: <200501162230.j0GMU3xD001056@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <006d01c4fcfd$02437fc0$6901a8c0@rock3> Bob Loeffler wrote: "I don't think there is an easy/efficient/feasible way to make MinDat an authoritative formal resource as long as any user can upload pics and text...." Certainly there is no easy way to make MinDat an authoritative formal resource. It has already taken a huge amount hard work on the part of those contributing their time to get it as far as it has come and will certainly take a great deal more to get it to where we would all like to see it go. Also there is no very efficient way either, because we are still trying to learn how to make it or databases like it authoritative and formal. Certainly it is feasible to do if there are unlimited manpower and resources to accomplish the task. We all know that will not happen, so we must do the best we can with what we have. The reliability of MinDat or any other database or publication of course depends on the accuracy and knowledge of those enter the data. Certainly if anyone can enter data into MinDat, the quality of the data will suffer greatly. Certainly if I am looking at data for some critical use, I will want to know where the data came from so I can judge how accurate it might be. If I see a source name like Bideaux I will have good confidence that the data is probably accurate and if I see the name of Joe's collection my confidence in the accuracy is much less. Min dat should have fields such that it is possible to know where all the data entered came from. There should also be fields where anyone can enter comments on the accuracy of the data or enter data of their own. These fields should be clearly marked as containing un pier reviewed data to be used with discretion. These fields will certainly be different from the fields where the special "authorized" contributors enter the more formal data into MinDat. There is a great deal of valuable data that individuals can enter into the database that can be valid and accurate. This data should not be lost because these individuals are not designated "super users" for MinDat. They could make postings in the "informal fields" of course with their contact information listed. Eventually this informal data could be vetted by some of the gurus and honchos for transfer to the formal fields. If MinDat or similar database is going to become all we hope it might be I think this kind of structure must be developed. Also there must be a way to fund one or a few full time individuals to oversee the project. There must be an office where the computer server is kept running and funds to pay the utilities and computer hardware and software upgrades as well. Without this, the effort will certainly fail. Of course almost all of the data entry will have to be done for free by those individuals who care about contributing to posterity, but for the individual or few who work at the project full time we must find a way to pay them like we do to those few individuals who run the current professional societies like the AMA. There just isn't the money out there to pay everyone. Certainly the authors that submit papers for publication in the various scientific journals are not compensated. Their name in lights is sufficient reward and I think that reward will be all that most contributors must be satisfied with. Of course, if they feel their contributions are worth more than that, they are free to write their own articles or books and find someone to pay them for their effort or even publish their own work and reap what ever profits they can. It is a free country. Rock From geenet2 at mchsi.com Mon Jan 17 18:03:51 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Mon Jan 17 18:05:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- Making SharedKnowledgePermanent References: Message-ID: <003601c4fd01$f5506da0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Ahhhhhhh.....always the voice of reason and sensibility, ......AXEL. Well said. Now, that said, I'd like to add that considering all the various sources of data on the internet, I always check out numerous sources to "corroborate" any sort of information I'm seeking on the web. So, IF some sort of "contamination" of offbase info slips in........Let's just say, I don't believe all that I see and only half of what I hear.... Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 5:02 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- Making SharedKnowledgePermanent > Hi guys, > > I think that Kreigh has a point! > > Maybe I should add my 2 cents: > > Some of us fear the "contamination" of reliable scientific data if > "amateurs" start spreading non-confirmed data. > On that subject I have two remarks: > > First: > .........And then we wonder that silly stuff trickles down to the > internet. I have read some of those and I'm still horror-struck. > If professional geologists want to reduce the amount of quackery on > non-professional but well-intended mineralogy sites, they should perhaps > come out of their ivory towers and start writing for the common people too > from time to time...... > > Second: > There a no pure and uncontaminated things in this universe. There is no > absolute vacuum, no pure water, no perfect bliss... only approximations of > perfection. Therefore, purism is an idle quest and purists are sad > creatures, condemned to eternal frustration....... > Basically, I feel that the conclusion of the above should be: > Laymen or amateurs should listen to the seasoned professional instead of > seeking their own way... They should provide the questions that the > mineralogist must find the answer to. > Professionals should come off their thrones (just those that are on it, of > course! Present company excluded ;-)and walk among the people... start > educating. Unconstructive criticism from either side will only push the > opinions further apart and heighten the barricades. > > So: peace brothers and remember the words of the mighty Lennon: "Come > together, right now!" > > Cheers > Axel From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Jan 17 19:40:09 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Jan 17 19:33:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mindat reliability References: <200501162230.j0GMU3xD001056@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <006d01c4fcfd$02437fc0$6901a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: <41EC8376.7B92@Tomaszewski.net> Rock Currier wrote: > > Bob Loeffler wrote: > "I don't think there is an easy/efficient/feasible way to make MinDat an > authoritative formal resource as long as any user can upload pics and > text...." > > Certainly there is no easy way to make MinDat an authoritative formal > resource. It has already taken a huge amount hard work on the part of those > contributing their time to get it as far as it has come and will certainly > take a great deal more to get it to where we would all like to see it go. BTW... When a new mineral is proposed to the IMA there is a bunch of paperwork that must be submitted with a summary of the scientific information about the mineral in a fairly standard format. The IMA already make available a PDF with all the accepted minerals, publication citation, and formula. I wonder if the IMA would provide a consolidated export of all their data to MinDat so they could be reasonably sure all key information about all accepted minerals was accurate. And annual updates of changes? ...just a random thought... ...now where was I...Oh yea... Yes!, I do agree with you about keeping all the submissions on a mineral location/photograph/etc (at least all the ones that are not obviously bogus/wrong); information sources need to be attributed. I really liked your attributed comments field for submitted information suggestion. It provides a way for the peer review that is required to make information 'authoritive'. If someone says you can find Leaverite at Waldo, NM, and _all_ comments (and there were a lot of them) agreed (because they all claim to have personally collected it there), it has a good chance of being reliable. OK, promote it, but keep the comments available under a button. Who knows when comments will provide clues to future researchers? Make it easy to get to the source 'publications'. And you are 'right on' with your suggestions for becoming independent; funding, office, server, utilities, minimal staff. Hmmmmm. Wonder if there would be a way to link lookups for specific minerals to supporting dealers that currently had specimens available of the mineral in question. Dealers contribute, and make a standard inquiry/feed available -- active advertising might fund MinDat, and would leverage the power of the internet. Kreigh From magnet at crocoite.com Mon Jan 17 20:20:09 2005 From: magnet at crocoite.com (magnet) Date: Mon Jan 17 20:19:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mindat Survival-- MakingShared Knowledge Permanent Message-ID: <20050118042009.16179.qmail@webmachine101.com> Don't be shocked if, in the year 2040, you get a letter from the government exercising eminent domain over your property in order to mine the samarium-laced vein that runs under your neighborhood... Pleasant dreams, Don ...or wanting to mine the specimens in your cabinet! I too occasionally use and (even more occasionally upload) information from Mindat. I use it as a starting point, a quick guide, similar to how Maurice and others have noted. When I decided many years ago to put together the "Census of the Minerals of Australia and New Zealand" (at crocoite.com), I made sure that (almost) all entries are from printed references. Of course, Australia and New Zealand is a bit smaller than the world, but even so, just scratching the surface, there are around 25,000 entries. I only update it myself which is a loooonnnnngggg process, but worthwhile all the same. Regards Steve http://www.crocoite.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jpjunk at mc.net Mon Jan 17 21:16:09 2005 From: jpjunk at mc.net (jjunkroski) Date: Mon Jan 17 21:15:39 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Where's Waldo {was: Help with unknown minerals please?} In-Reply-To: <41EAF910.77B2@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: No no no : These are Vaseline CRYSTALS. Kind of like Kurt Vonneguts ice-nine, but not water. Junk on 1/16/05 5:33 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski at Kreigh@Tomaszewski.net wrote: > Hmmmmm. An open pit vaseline mine. Interesting image. > > Do they just scoop it out and plop it into jars? > > Are there signs around the edge warning of a slippery slope? > > Images of taking a sailboat cruise across the surface of a vaseline lake > at the bottom of a big open pit... > > Kinda reminds me of Frank Zappa, 'Moving to Montana' to raise dental > floss. > > Kreigh > > > > > > Peter J. Modreski wrote: >> >> Earl, you have just got to be more serious about this mineral stuff--none of >> this joking around like this, please (someone might take it for factual). >> And besides, as anyone knows who used to live in Alburquerque in the good >> old days and read the alternative newspaper, _______ (my gosh, now I've >> forgotten what the paper was called!), the Open Pit Vaseline Mine (the >> world's largest) was located near Waldo, the former Santa Fe railroad stop >> located midway between Cerrillos (turquoise mining capitol of Spanish >> colonial N.M.) and the "Waldo Exit" (exit to nowhere, pretty much) on I-25 >> midway between Santa Fe and Albuquerque. There, now I've straightened that >> out. Maybe someone could enter some of this in Mindat. >> >> Pete >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "SHM" >> To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" >> >> Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 12:39 PM >> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Help with unknown minerals please? >> >>> >>> A friend of mine, a world-renowned authority, has identified the top two >>> specimens as petroleum crystals from the Jose Pinto vaseline mine in Los >>> Lunas, New Mexico. >>> >>> Unfortunately he is not a world authority on minerals . . . >>> >>> Cheers- Earl Verbeek >>> > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Jan 18 01:05:29 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jan 18 01:05:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mindat Survival-- MakingShared Knowledge Permanent In-Reply-To: <20050118042009.16179.qmail@webmachine101.com> Message-ID: In WWII, the Germans needed copper for their shells... my mother's messing coal-scuttle was confiscated...along with an umbrella stand. So, your probably not too far off ;-))) Cheers Axel Don't be shocked if, in the year 2040, you get a letter from the government exercising eminent domain over your property in order to mine the samarium-laced vein that runs under your neighborhood... Pleasant dreams, Don ...or wanting to mine the specimens in your cabinet! From liz.fodi at utoronto.ca Tue Jan 18 09:02:24 2005 From: liz.fodi at utoronto.ca (liz fodi) Date: Tue Jan 18 08:59:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- MakingSharedKnowledgePermanent In-Reply-To: <200501171849.j0HInZNp004386@outmx012.isp.belgacom.be> References: <200501171849.j0HInZNp004386@outmx012.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: <41ED4120.4000100@utoronto.ca> An interesting thread! as for baryt/ barite celestite/celestine I heard a story that it is barite because it is celestine. The old "I'll agree to A if you agree to B." Liz Rik Dillen wrote: >Hi Pete et al, > >Sorry, but if the Glossary of Mineral Species (where, as far as I know, only >officially accepted names are used) says "barite", than it is barite, and >not baryte. I think that in this case there is an error in the MINDAT >database. I checked it, and indeed MINDAT says "baryte". This is typically a >case where I would check an official reference (such as the Glossary) if I'm >writing an article e.g. But that does not devaluate MINDAT in my opinion. > >Greetings, > >Rik > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Peter J. Modreski >Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 6:59 PM >To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- >MakingSharedKnowledgePermanent > >Just a few more comments to share about Mindat... >... ... ... ... >So anyway, I was curious as to what Mindat might have to say about barite >from Kapnikbanya. The first thing I learned via Mindat was to read, rather >surprisingly to me, that the official "IMA-approved" name for this mineral >species is "Baryte", not barite. Imagine that! We all tend to be very >provincial and forget about how mineral names do get transmuted into >different spellings in different languages, and of course I tend to think >that "only the Brits" write "baryte" or "barytes", and that that is their >little own provincial thing, and of course the spelling that we Americans >use must be "THE" correct spelling--well, maybe that's not always true. >Other than this, I don't have much more of a story--barite (or should I say, >baryte, which is where one must look it up in the alphabetical Mindat index) >is only just listed as occurring at Kapnikbanya, no other descriptive data >and no pictures posted. I thought perhaps I might learn something there >about how common the dark gray, jamesonite-included (assuming that's what it >is) barite crystals are. I suppose this just points up what has been said >in the List discussion about the data in Mindat--there's a LOT more than can >readily be added, and yes, it does seem that Mindat would be a good or >perhaps ideal place for people to collect all this potential data. Now >obviously, if I wanted to know more about opaque-included barite from >Cavnic, I'd look in the Min. Record index, etc ., etc., etc., for other >sources of articles that might describe it, and I'm sure I'd find something. > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Tue Jan 18 06:45:46 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Tue Jan 18 09:36:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Where's Waldo (and its minerals!) References: Message-ID: <001601c4fd6c$65f88e60$c6a6490c@pete> OK here, hearkening back to all this vaseline stuff--the first person who titled this "Where's Waldo" finally jogged my memory--the weekly newspaper in Albuquerque in the 70s that brought the open-pit vaseline mine to all our attention (and I'm sure I told Earl V. about that, and that's what motivated his unconscious or semiconscious to write about vaseline crystals), was in fact titled, "The Waldo Weekly". Somewhere tucked away, I'm sure I must still have some copies of it. Do you-all remember this, Earl? Aside from the Vaseline Mine, they used to like to talk about the danger of a meltdown at the apple core reactor in Waldo. The paper used to sponsor an annual picnic and cow chip throwing contest in Waldo; a group of us went there once--we were the only ones there, but we did have our contest. Waving at (or depending on your mood, mooning) the Amtrack train as it went by, was also a popular pastime in Waldo. Now, let's see, to bring this back into good "rocks" focus (aside from the vaseline crystals), that road I described through Waldo, takes off from the Waldo Exit on I-25 (just north of La Bajada Hill) and is a dirt road leading east, eventually coming in "the back way" to Cerrillos, which is in fact a neat old town, and the location of a number of ancient, historic turquoise mines; Turquoise Hill, and Mount Chalchihuitl. Cerrillos is a very neat old town--an old general store that's been there since forever is fun to browse in; and it's also famous for being where the filmed the Walt Disney cowboy epic, "The Legend of Elfego Baca" (based on a true story from western New Mexico). There always used to be some of the old mines where you could still find a bit of turquoise, and some with a few other minerals (sulfides & such, associated with veins in the shallow igneous intrusives that hosted the turquoise deposits), although most of those mines, maybe not all, are probably private and fenced off now. In some of the old workings they found numerous stone hammers, etc., used by the Pueblo Indians, who were pretty much enslaved by the Spanish to work these mines, and their mistreatment was a major factor in leading to the Pueblo Revolt in which they temporarily drove out all the Spanish. The "Turquoise Trail" highway leads north from I-40, east of Albuquerque, up north through Golden, Madrid, and Cerrillos, connecting to I-25 just south of Santa Fe. For those who haven't been that way, take it as a real neat side trip next time you're passing through New Mexico. Near Golden is the San Pedro mine (private property), worked variously for gold and copper, and source of many really good mineral specimens--native gold in calcite, chalcopyrite crystals, and Japan-law quartz twins are the most notable. And just south and east of Cerrillos was the Ortiz gold mine, worked as an open pit in the 1980s and in turn famous for yellow, euhedral scheelite crystals (often up to 1/4-1/2 inch in size) in an open, vuggy breccia which hosted the gold. Madrid--as all the NM people know--was, by contrast, a coal mining town, of all things; Cretaceous coal beds. The intrusive igneous rocks hosting ore deposits in this area are typically monzonite, and its volcanic or subvolcanic equivalent, latite; and in the Cerrillos area, I believe the shallow intrusives are trachyte and latite. Also present, especially nearer I-25, are lava flows and dikes of dark, magnesium and alkali-rich basaltic rock with a high olivine content; limburgite (but the olivine is all extremely fine-grained)--I always loved that name. And this back road through Waldo--does in fact go past Waldo, which was never more than a RR watering stop (pop. zero now, maybe it was always zero), and comes in to Cerrillos past a big massive rock formation cliff of trachyte, called "Devils Throne", that was quarried for crushing up as ballast for the RR tracks. If you're driving a "civilized" type car, last time I was there, it's a pretty rough road. We drove into Cerrillos this way one time, about 6 years ago, and found that all the other "normal" entrances into town (well, there's only one) were blocked off, because they were filming a movie in town--"how did you get here?". We had to park and be quiet (not slam any car doors) while they were filming. Well now, there's more than anyone needed to know about Cerrillos and Waldo! I wonder how much if any of this info about minerals at Cerrillos and Golden, is in Mindat? Probably I should enter some, with pictures. Of course, if I entered this in Mindat, I'd have to look up a lot of my "facts" cited above, to make sure I got them all really correct--rock types & all that. Wishing a good day to all, Pete Modreski ----- Original Message ----- From: "jjunkroski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 10:16 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Where's Waldo {was: Help with unknown mineralsplease?} > No no no : > > These are Vaseline CRYSTALS. > > Kind of like Kurt Vonneguts ice-nine, but not water. > > Junk > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Jan 18 09:40:09 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jan 18 09:40:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- MakingSharedKnowledgePermanent In-Reply-To: <41ED4120.4000100@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: and what about agreeing to C if I agree to D? sphalerite vs. sfalerite Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens liz fodi Verzonden: dinsdag 18 januari 2005 18:02 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- MakingSharedKnowledgePermanent An interesting thread! as for baryt/ barite celestite/celestine I heard a story that it is barite because it is celestine. The old "I'll agree to A if you agree to B." Liz Rik Dillen wrote: >Hi Pete et al, > >Sorry, but if the Glossary of Mineral Species (where, as far as I know, only >officially accepted names are used) says "barite", than it is barite, and >not baryte. I think that in this case there is an error in the MINDAT >database. I checked it, and indeed MINDAT says "baryte". This is typically a >case where I would check an official reference (such as the Glossary) if I'm >writing an article e.g. But that does not devaluate MINDAT in my opinion. > >Greetings, > >Rik > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Peter J. Modreski >Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 6:59 PM >To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- >MakingSharedKnowledgePermanent > >Just a few more comments to share about Mindat... >... ... ... ... >So anyway, I was curious as to what Mindat might have to say about barite >from Kapnikbanya. The first thing I learned via Mindat was to read, rather >surprisingly to me, that the official "IMA-approved" name for this mineral >species is "Baryte", not barite. Imagine that! We all tend to be very >provincial and forget about how mineral names do get transmuted into >different spellings in different languages, and of course I tend to think >that "only the Brits" write "baryte" or "barytes", and that that is their >little own provincial thing, and of course the spelling that we Americans >use must be "THE" correct spelling--well, maybe that's not always true. >Other than this, I don't have much more of a story--barite (or should I say, >baryte, which is where one must look it up in the alphabetical Mindat index) >is only just listed as occurring at Kapnikbanya, no other descriptive data >and no pictures posted. I thought perhaps I might learn something there >about how common the dark gray, jamesonite-included (assuming that's what it >is) barite crystals are. I suppose this just points up what has been said >in the List discussion about the data in Mindat--there's a LOT more than can >readily be added, and yes, it does seem that Mindat would be a good or >perhaps ideal place for people to collect all this potential data. Now >obviously, if I wanted to know more about opaque-included barite from >Cavnic, I'd look in the Min. Record index, etc ., etc., etc., for other >sources of articles that might describe it, and I'm sure I'd find something. > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From buff1 at ptd.net Tue Jan 18 09:59:55 2005 From: buff1 at ptd.net (Dennis Buffenmyer) Date: Tue Jan 18 10:00:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- MakingSharedKnowledgePermanent In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41ED4E9B.7040701@ptd.net> Yea but who's going to X if you Y?? I so seldom weigh in I couldn't help myself... Axel Emmermann wrote: >and what about agreeing to C if I agree to D? >sphalerite vs. sfalerite > > > From danielz at acmenet.net Tue Jan 18 10:33:54 2005 From: danielz at acmenet.net (Dan Z) Date: Tue Jan 18 10:34:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Van Mine - heard of it? Hexagonal magnetite? Message-ID: <000501c4fd8c$44087430$6401a8c0@M1Garand> Anyone ever heard of a - probably - iron mine named the "Van Mine?" I have a piece of magnetite labeled with that name. Interestingly, the magnetite is in the form of a hexagonal crystal section about 5 inches long and three inches diameter - perhaps a pseudo after quartz? It doesn't seem to be ilmenite - dark streak and very strong magnetism. -dan z- From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Tue Jan 18 06:55:39 2005 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:03:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: MindatSurvival-- MakingShared Knowledge Permanent References: Message-ID: <000601c4fd90$6876f180$423f27c4@privatehome> Hi Bob, I suppose you know the "end-point" or "ultimate" of the saying - "the more I learn, the less I know"? One definition of an "expert" is "somebody who knows more and more about less and less until he knows EVERYTHING about NOTHING.". Just kidding!! I reckon we have quite a few VERY KNOWLEDGABLE mineralogists/geologists in our community and I am sure we are learning from their knowledge daily in this forum. Let's keep up the good work. Regards, Horst ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Loeffler" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 10:26 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: MindatSurvival-- MakingShared Knowledge Permanent > Hi Don, > > Yup, I didn't get my point across very well. If "Ph.D USGS" was written > after Pete's name, then yes, everyone would see that he is qualified to do > this. My point was that the verifier couldn't just be any individuals > listed > without a title; they would have to be well-known museums or well-known > mineralogical/geological authorities (with valid titles). Thanks for > pointing that out. Oh, and how did you know "Pete M." was our very own > Pete > Modreski? ;-) > > I know what you mean by "the more I learn, the less I know". That's why I > hate learning. Just kidding! > > If MinDat was initially created as an authoritative resource and the > owners > had the financial backing, it probably could've been the end-all be-all > today. But it's still the best all-around Web resource for what it was set > up to do. > > Regards, > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Don H > Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 1:00 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival-- MakingShared Knowledge > Permanent > > Bob Loeffler wrote: > >> I don't think there is an easy/efficient/feasible way to make MinDat an >> authoritative formal resource as long as any user can upload pics and > text. >> Even saying "This information has been verified by a research group >> headed >> by Kreigh T., Don H., Pete M., ..." wouldn't hold any weight by most >> rockhounds around the world, besides the few of us who are on this >> mailing >> list or know them personally. Sorry guys! ;-) > > No offense taken--but in defense of Pete Modreski, he *is* a Ph.D. > geologist with a solid career at the USGS behind him, and that is just > the person who would be qualified to do this sort of validation. > > I know that Kreigh and I like to quote sources and draw considered > conclusions, and that is something anyone can do. it just takes time > and access to books. But I'll tell you this, the more I learn, the less > I know. By the time I finish my master's I should know very little! > > A decade ago, I would have thought something like Mindat was the end-all > and be-all. Now, after seeing how much bad info is out there floating > around in the world, yes, even among Ph.D.s and juried publications, I > am paranoid about believing anything I read. > > > Don > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From lanny at lrream.com Tue Jan 18 11:11:27 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:09:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fwd: Mindat data - a reply from Jolyon Message-ID: Following is a reply I received from Jolyon to a message I recently sent him about Mindat. It answers a lot of the questions that have been kicked around on the list lately. This message was forwarded with his permission. Regards, Lanny Begin forwarded message: > From: Jolyon > Date: January 17, 2005 11:48:04 AM PST > To: Lanny > Subject: Re: Mindat data > > Lanny wrote: > >> Hi Jolyon, >> >> You may know that at this time there is a discussion going on the >> Rockhounds list about Mindat and its future. > > Yes, I saw a link to it recently, I unsubscribed from the list a while > back (too much email to deal with already!) but that particular thread > was pointed out to me. > > Should you want to post any replies from me to the list you might want > to let people know that although the request for a version of > mindat.org on CD-ROM is a frequent one, it will never happen. Firstly > (as pointed out) there are rights issues, and I simply cannot turn a > community effort into a commercial venture for myself (the current > restrained advertising on the site is barely enough to cover hosting > costs). Secondly, once it is printed in a book, burned on a CD, > mistakes have a nasty habit of becoming permanent. You can't withdraw > old issues of Mineralogical Record if there's a mistake, but you can > update a website. With Mindat and it's mistakes (I know there are > many), once they are corrected they're corrected for good. If I > started issuing CD-ROMs, there would be incorrect data atrributed to > mindat.org floating around for decades. > > Some people have tried to download the entire website(!) onto their PC > using special software to 'copy' websites. This can take days and > clogs up the mindat server with enormous amounts of requests. When I > find people doing this I ban them immediately from the site to avoid > the slowdown to genuine users. People wanting to make their own CDs of > the data should be aware of this! > > In terms of data integrity I already have in place an arrangement with > various people including at the Mineralogical Society of America to > take regular backups of the database and code, so should for any > reason I dissapear off the face of the earth the website could be > continued (or at least the data could be retrieved and reused in > another project). > >> Recently, what really prompted me to write were two references in >> Alaska. I found these two that may be of use to me, barroisite and >> stibnite at Fairbanks and amethyst at Tok. I was excited on finding >> them, both have a GPS location in lat/lon coordinates. Unfortunately, >> they are probably useless, the coordinates are to the towns. Granted, >> it is possible the minerals occur at the towns, unless the courthouse >> is a mineral locality, not of any use. The same for Tok. If there was >> a reference to each, then I could find out where these locations are. >> As the listings are, they are most likely misleading. > > The problem with mindat.org is trying to keep everyone happy is an > impossible task. Although it is highly possible that the GPS > locations listed for these sites are erroneous (and they may have been > entered from an existing incorrect reference), we have a policy in > certain areas to not give accurate GPS locations for sites that are > not on public land or sites that are known not to allow public > collecting, for the obvious reason of avoiding conflict with > landowners who may complain that we are "inviting" people to go dig on > their land. I leave the decision up to regional editors to decide what > to do about policies with their areas. Alaska currently has no > regional editor, so changes in this state are not as vigorously > researched and vetted as in others (such as New England, Arizona, > California, etc.) where there are editors who check content freqently > and do a very good job of keeping it correct. Regional Editors make > different decisions based on regional policies and concerns. For > example, in the UK for which there are 3 regional editors sharing > responsibilities, we have decided to allow Grid Coordinate references > for all localities, and we have been adding and verifying these for > the majority of sites. However, for the New England localities, our > regional editor has decided that due to the fragile relationship > between collectors and landowners, and some terrible incidents of > trespass and vandalism at sites, it would not be safe to list > coordinates for ANY site in the region, which is why no coordinates > are added to sites in New England. I respect that decision. > > We are NOT a guidebook for places to go visit. That information should > be gleaned from guidebooks or ideally from a local club, so the > absense of GPS coordinates for sites is not necessarily a bad thing. > > As Mindat grows and attracts more expert help we will be able to plug > the gaps in these otherwise incomplete regions. > >> I'm suggesting that you tighten your rules for posting locality data. >> It should have a reference when available, and a statement of origin >> when not available. Any precise data, such as GPS coordinates should >> be to the location, not a nearby town. > > Other than the issue of GPS locations as stated above, I fully agree > with this, I'll have to check the code, if it doesn't already make it > compulsary to add a reference I will make it so. The vast majority of > new locations added are with references. > > We are now very careful with allowing new people to add data to the > site. Any new changes have to be verified by an editor before they are > approved, and we are very cautious with new people who may have good > intentions about updating information but aren't capable of providing > information to the level of quality that we require. > >> >> Thank you for considering this. > > I am always happy to have feedback regarding mindat.org, and of > course, for me the most useful feedback is critical feedback. I have > struggled with a site that has grown way faster than I expected, with > problems due to my initial unscientific approach to the subject (I've > learned a LOT these last four years!) and from a lack of time in being > able to deal with everything I have wanted to. > > Mindat.org will never be as good as having a mineralogical library > with cross-reference, but that's a luxury most collectors don't have > (my Mineralogical Records are in piles, not even sorted by date). It > certainly does not pretend to be authoratitive on the subject, indeed > I put a disclaimer on every page just to make sure of the case. And > noone would be silly enough to use Mindat.org as a reference in a > serious paper - but it is a good starting point to find leads to other > information. > > As it grows in the future, I see that there will be less and less > 'incomplete' records, and I may make a decision to actually suspend > all unreferenced data from the site until someone can come in, re-edit > them, and add them back with correct data. The database is MUCH > better than it was 1 year ago in terms of quality of data, which when > you consider the volume of new data added in that time is quite an > achievement. > > Thanks again for taking the time to write to me on this, and I hope > you can find the time to mail me again should you think of anything > else that you want to raise with me! > > Regards, > > Jolyon Ralph - webmaster - www.mindat.org > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.12 - Release Date: 14/01/2005 > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- From rpr at nike.heidelberg.edu Tue Jan 18 11:11:06 2005 From: rpr at nike.heidelberg.edu (Pete Richards) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:11:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Van Mine - heard of it? Hexagonal magnetite? In-Reply-To: <000501c4fd8c$44087430$6401a8c0@M1Garand> References: <000501c4fd8c$44087430$6401a8c0@M1Garand> Message-ID: Dont know the locality, but if what you have is truly magnetite (and it sounds like it), it must be a pseudomorph of something else - magnetite cannot form hexagonal crystals! Is it a simple prism, or are there modifying faces? Perhaps it's a pseudomorph after ilmenite or hematite, though neither of those commonly forms a simple prism. Pete Richards (the other Pete) >Anyone ever heard of a - probably - iron mine named the "Van Mine?" I have a >piece of magnetite labeled with that name. Interestingly, the magnetite is >in the form of a hexagonal crystal section about 5 inches long and three >inches diameter - perhaps a pseudo after quartz? It doesn't seem to be >ilmenite - dark streak and very strong magnetism. > >-dan z- > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh From danielz at acmenet.net Tue Jan 18 13:48:23 2005 From: danielz at acmenet.net (Dan Z) Date: Tue Jan 18 13:48:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Van Mine - heard of it? Hexagonal magnetite? Message-ID: <000901c4fda7$6f28d810$6401a8c0@M1Garand> Hi Pete, Thanks for the reply. The section is a slightly elongated (two faces wider) hexagon, imitated below. Unfortunately any termination is broken off. The surface features look possibly more like apatite than quartz - no striations at all, but a little "stepping" in the growth. The location is probably somewhere in or near New York State. The collectors (1940's and 50's) lived in Saratoga, and their son said most of their collecting was done not too far away. One of the mines or prospects near Ironville maybe? -dan z- ____ / \ \ ____ / _______ Dont know the locality, but if what you have is truly magnetite (and it sounds like it), it must be a pseudomorph of something else - magnetite cannot form hexagonal crystals! Is it a simple prism, or are there modifying faces? Perhaps it's a pseudomorph after ilmenite or hematite, though neither of those commonly forms a simple prism. Pete Richards (the other Pete) - - Protect your civil rights! Let the politicians know how you feel. Join or donate to the NRA today! http://membership.nrahq.org/default.asp?campaignid=XR014887 From rpr at nike.heidelberg.edu Tue Jan 18 14:49:16 2005 From: rpr at nike.heidelberg.edu (Pete Richards) Date: Tue Jan 18 14:49:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Van Mine - heard of it? Hexagonal magnetite? In-Reply-To: <000901c4fda7$6f28d810$6401a8c0@M1Garand> References: <000901c4fda7$6f28d810$6401a8c0@M1Garand> Message-ID: How about a replacement of pyrrhotite? Sorry, don't know anything about the local geology.... Pete >Hi Pete, >Thanks for the reply. The section is a slightly elongated (two faces wider) >hexagon, imitated below. Unfortunately any termination is broken off. The >surface features look possibly more like apatite than quartz - no striations >at all, but a little "stepping" in the growth. > >The location is probably somewhere in or near New York State. The >collectors (1940's and 50's) lived in Saratoga, and their son said most of >their collecting was done not too far away. One of the mines or prospects >near Ironville maybe? > >-dan z- > > ____ >/ \ >\ ____ / > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh From hptdesigns at charter.net Tue Jan 18 15:27:36 2005 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Tue Jan 18 15:21:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fwd: Mindat data - a reply from Jolyon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3khdfd$ha42au@mxip04a.cluster1.charter.net> Well I would say that just puts this thread to an end. Its good that he has addressed the main concern of many. Sent the man a little donation--he really deserves it--and I encourage others who use it to do the same. Kind of like pledging to Public Radio. > > In terms of data integrity I already have in place an > arrangement with > > various people including at the Mineralogical Society of America to > > take regular backups of the database and code, so should for any > > reason I dissapear off the face of the earth the website could be > > continued (or at least the data could be retrieved and reused in > > another project). Tommy Armstrong tfa@brickengraver.com "Science is extraordinarily stupid about people as people and the consequence of this stupidity is going to do us all in if we don't do something about it" Walker Percy From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Jan 18 13:35:51 2005 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Tue Jan 18 15:36:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fwd: Mindat data - a reply from Jolyon References: <3khdfd$ha42au@mxip04a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <002301c4fda5$b63e8bc0$6400a8c0@mshome.net> I agree Tommy. I don't often use MinDat but I'd gladly send Jolyon a few bucks to keep it going if I had his address. John Santa, Idaho ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tommy Armstrong" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 5:27 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fwd: Mindat data - a reply from Jolyon > Well I would say that just puts this thread to an end. Its good that he has > addressed the main concern of many. > Sent the man a little donation--he really deserves it--and I encourage > others who use it to do the same. Kind of like pledging to Public Radio. From danielz at acmenet.net Tue Jan 18 15:39:14 2005 From: danielz at acmenet.net (Dan Z) Date: Tue Jan 18 15:39:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Van Mine - heard of it? Hexagonal magnetite? References: <000901c4fda7$6f28d810$6401a8c0@M1Garand> Message-ID: <000301c4fdb6$eb7ba280$6401a8c0@M1Garand> I doubt pyrrhotite. My statement about "stepping" probably mislead you. There is no stepping along the C axis, but stepping, or layering, on two of the faces, growing outwards, very small in height, but along a broad area of the face. This effect seems to match in appearance the same effect on the faces of many of the Canadian apatites I have here. -dan z- > How about a replacement of pyrrhotite? Sorry, don't know anything about the local geology.... > > Pete > > > >Hi Pete, > >Thanks for the reply. The section is a slightly elongated (two faces wider) > >hexagon, imitated below. Unfortunately any termination is broken off. The > >surface features look possibly more like apatite than quartz - no striations > >at all, but a little "stepping" in the growth. > > > >The location is probably somewhere in or near New York State. The > >collectors (1940's and 50's) lived in Saratoga, and their son said most of > >their collecting was done not too far away. One of the mines or prospects > >near Ironville maybe? > > > >-dan z- > > > > ____ > >/ \ > >\ ____ / > > From hptdesigns at charter.net Tue Jan 18 15:57:46 2005 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Tue Jan 18 15:51:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A different kind of mindat In-Reply-To: <006d01c4fcfd$02437fc0$6901a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: <3khj1l$g9gcog@mxip09a.cluster1.charter.net> I think it was Rock that started this thread, and it really has become a biggie. Because it really is an important discussion. The beauty of mineral collecting is that it is a deeply complex hobby that involves multiple disciplines. The history of man has to a large degree has been propelled by the search for minerals. The great empires of the world have sustained themselves on the availability of minerals. The great wars of the world were fought for minerals. The science of today had much of its foundations in that quest for minerals. Mineral collecting and their study is much too important to be left to the scientists. The amateur--and I don't even like that term--as it implies some sort of hierarchy of expertise--is just as important or more so than the "professional". And that is precisely why I think that all this anality about "authoritative formal resource" is pretty much just that--the stuff that I treat at my wastewater plant day in and day out. I collect minerals for many reasons, but probably mostly for their aesthetic appeal and the stories that they tell. How they were formed, what they are made of , what their importance is , who they were named after, how they were first discovered, what they are used for, why they look the way they look, WHERE they came from. Jeez, I have learned more geography since I took up mineral collecting again than I ever thought I would. I know just about where every country is in the world, where most of the provinces are, etc. etc. simply because I bought an aesthetic rock that had some locality on its label and it started the journey of geographic discovery. Without a doubt the vast majority of collectors are not professional mineralogists or geologists. The day before yesterday I got up at 4:30 in the AM to go see a Picasso, Matisse, Degas exhibit at the NC Museum of Art--that was the only time slot available. After that I went to the NC Museum of Natural Science and saw an incredible display of minerals from NC---probably the best ever assembled. http://www.naturalsciences.org/. The collection of the Matisses was put together by the Cone sisters --not art historians --but just a couple of rich sisters who liked those artists. The collection of minerals was put together by a collector whose passion was minerals. Whether it is a Matisse or an incredible rutile specimen, both are equally worthy of seeing and understanding and enjoying. (Now granted that most visitors at the Art Museum would not have given a hoot about a world class NC rutile crystal--and most visitors (which were very few) at the mineral exhibition would not have given a hoot about a Matisse) I really like mindat and http://webmineral.com/. They are great resources that are availble at a click of a few buttons. They help to make collecting minerals a much more enjoyable hobby. Rock said: There is a great deal of valuable data that individuals can enter into the database that can be valid and accurate. This data should not be lost because these individuals are not designated "super users" for MinDat. They could make postings in the "informal fields" of course with their contact information listed. Eventually this informal data could be vetted by some of the gurus and honchos for transfer to the formal fields. I think something along these lines would be excellent. And in the future not only for locality information but general information also. The stuff on www.crocoite.com is an excellent example of what I have in mind. I would also like to add that there is valuable data that only amateurs have access to for it is only they that are privy to it. Journals like the wonderful ones written by John Cornish should be there and not just for the consumption of this list. I wrote the above before Lanny's forward of Mr. Mindat's response which I feel pretty much answered the questions of where it was going to go and how it was being preserved. Now that I think of it, I think it would behoove someone or a group to launch another site that would be essentially a Matrix online. Let people upload to the site those little historical and mineralogical gems of knowledge that they have. Narratives of collecting trips. Reviews of shows and exhibitions. Historical stuff about their particular interests. Those presentations (of course with the presenter's permission) of various subjects about mineral collecting such as those at the Rochester Mineral Symposium, the Tuscon Show, etc. If all this community knowledge could be collected into a free flowing searchable website, this, I think would be an incredibly fun resource--and lets face it --for many of us we do this thing with rocks for the enjoyment it brings to us and we do this thing with rocks for the friends that we meet. Tommy Armstrong tfa@brickengraver.com "Science is extraordinarily stupid about people as people and the consequence of this stupidity is going to do us all in if we don't do something about it" Walker Percy > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Rock Currier > Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 8:28 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Mindat reliability > > Bob Loeffler wrote: > "I don't think there is an easy/efficient/feasible way to > make MinDat an authoritative formal resource as long as any > user can upload pics and text...." > > Certainly there is no easy way to make MinDat an > authoritative formal resource. It has already taken a huge > amount hard work on the part of those contributing their time > to get it as far as it has come and will certainly take a > great deal more to get it to where we would all like to see it go. > > Also there is no very efficient way either, because we are > still trying to learn how to make it or databases like it > authoritative and formal. > Certainly it is feasible to do if there are unlimited > manpower and resources to accomplish the task. We all know > that will not happen, so we must do the best we can with what we have. > > The reliability of MinDat or any other database or > publication of course depends on the accuracy and knowledge > of those enter the data. Certainly if anyone can enter data > into MinDat, the quality of the data will suffer greatly. > Certainly if I am looking at data for some critical use, I > will want to know where the data came from so I can judge how > accurate it might be. If I see a source name like Bideaux I > will have good confidence that the data is probably accurate > and if I see the name of Joe's collection my confidence in > the accuracy is much less. > > Min dat should have fields such that it is possible to know > where all the data entered came from. There should also be > fields where anyone can enter comments on the accuracy of the > data or enter data of their own. These fields should be > clearly marked as containing un pier reviewed data to be used > with discretion. These fields will certainly be different > from the fields where the special "authorized" contributors > enter the more formal data into MinDat. > > There is a great deal of valuable data that individuals can > enter into the database that can be valid and accurate. This > data should not be lost because these individuals are not > designated "super users" for MinDat. They could make postings > in the "informal fields" of course with their contact > information listed. Eventually this informal data could be > vetted by some of the gurus and honchos for transfer to the > formal fields. > > If MinDat or similar database is going to become all we hope > it might be I think this kind of structure must be developed. > Also there must be a way to fund one or a few full time > individuals to oversee the project. There must be an office > where the computer server is kept running and funds to pay > the utilities and computer hardware and software upgrades as > well. Without this, the effort will certainly fail. Of > course almost all of the data entry will have to be done for > free by those individuals who care about contributing to > posterity, but for the individual or few who work at the > project full time we must find a way to pay them like we do > to those few individuals who run the current professional > societies like the AMA. There just isn't the money out there > to pay everyone. Certainly the authors that submit papers for > publication in the various scientific journals are not > compensated. Their name in lights is sufficient reward and I > think that reward will be all that most contributors must be > satisfied with. Of course, if they feel their contributions > are worth more than that, they are free to write their own > articles or books and find someone to pay them for their > effort or even publish their own work and reap what ever > profits they can. > It is a free country. > Rock > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Jan 18 16:05:59 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Jan 18 15:56:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Van Mine - heard of it? Hexagonal magnetite? References: <000501c4fd8c$44087430$6401a8c0@M1Garand> Message-ID: <41EDA21B.291E@Tomaszewski.net> Dan Z wrote: > > Anyone ever heard of a - probably - iron mine named the "Van Mine?" I have a > piece of magnetite labeled with that name. Interestingly, the magnetite is > in the form of a hexagonal crystal section about 5 inches long and three > inches diameter - perhaps a pseudo after quartz? It doesn't seem to be > ilmenite - dark streak and very strong magnetism. > > -dan z- > It might be the Great Rock Mine that was run by the Van Iron Ore Company in the 1870s. Micaceous Hematite was the main ore. From k.conroy at worldnet.att.net Tue Jan 18 16:12:01 2005 From: k.conroy at worldnet.att.net (Kevin Conroy) Date: Tue Jan 18 16:10:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Van Mine - heard of it? Hexagonal magnetite? References: <000901c4fda7$6f28d810$6401a8c0@M1Garand> Message-ID: <004901c4fdbb$800a8020$738d4a0c@kcmins> Hi! I just did a search on www.topozone.com and the only "Van Mine" listed was in Colorado. Probably not what you're looking for, but Topozone is a good site to visit, and I thought this would be a good place for a reminder. All the best, Kevin www.kcminerals.com PS I also tried using the "Begins with this word or phrase" option, and under "Type" I chose "mines", and found quite a few matches. PPS Using www.mindat.org the only match with "van" as part of a mine name in New York is J. H. Donovan Mine, a lead mine. From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Jan 18 16:41:53 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Jan 18 16:41:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Van Mine - heard of it? Hexagonal magnetite? Message-ID: <011920050041.25690.41EDACD100023B3A0000645A216046664807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Kreigh, wow!, how do you know all this stuff? (Or do you just utilize databases and internet, to their accessible limits?) Kreigh, is that Great Rock Mine of yours, in the iron districts of Michigan, rather than New York? Otherwise, Dan, I was going to suggest that perhaps "van mine" was someone's shorthand for "vanadium mine", because I believe some of the magnetite deposits in NY State contain a lot of vanadium, and I think they were mined as much for the vanadium as the iron. What do you think about that idea? Pete Modreski -------------- Original message from Kreigh Tomaszewski : -------------- > Dan Z wrote: > > > > Anyone ever heard of a - probably - iron mine named the "Van Mine?" I have a > > piece of magnetite labeled with that name. Interestingly, the magnetite is > > in the form of a hexagonal crystal section about 5 inches long and three > > inches diameter - perhaps a pseudo after quartz? It doesn't seem to be > > ilmenite - dark streak and very strong magnetism. > > > > -dan z- > > > > It might be the Great Rock Mine that was run by the Van Iron Ore Company > in the 1870s. Micaceous Hematite was the main ore. > _______________________________________________ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From hbarwood at troyst.edu Tue Jan 18 18:49:51 2005 From: hbarwood at troyst.edu (Henry Barwood) Date: Tue Jan 18 18:47:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Van Mine - heard of it? Hexagonal magnetite? In-Reply-To: <000301c4fdb6$eb7ba280$6401a8c0@M1Garand> Message-ID: My guess would be magnetite after hematite. Would have been a world-class hematite, but that would be the logical precursor. Henry Barwood -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Dan Z Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 5:39 PM To: Rockhound list danielz frm Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Van Mine - heard of it? Hexagonal magnetite? I doubt pyrrhotite. My statement about "stepping" probably mislead you. There is no stepping along the C axis, but stepping, or layering, on two of the faces, growing outwards, very small in height, but along a broad area of the face. This effect seems to match in appearance the same effect on the faces of many of the Canadian apatites I have here. -dan z- > How about a replacement of pyrrhotite? Sorry, don't know anything about the local geology.... > > Pete > > > >Hi Pete, > >Thanks for the reply. The section is a slightly elongated (two faces wider) > >hexagon, imitated below. Unfortunately any termination is broken off. The > >surface features look possibly more like apatite than quartz - no striations > >at all, but a little "stepping" in the growth. > > > >The location is probably somewhere in or near New York State. The > >collectors (1940's and 50's) lived in Saratoga, and their son said most of > >their collecting was done not too far away. One of the mines or prospects > >near Ironville maybe? > > > >-dan z- > > > > ____ > >/ \ > >\ ____ / > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Jan 18 20:41:24 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Jan 18 20:31:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Van Mine - heard of it? Hexagonal magnetite? References: <011920050041.25690.41EDACD100023B3A0000645A216046664807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <41EDE284.39ED@Tomaszewski.net> The Great Rock Mine is in Dartmoor, and there are actually several websites on it (and a book -- I just checked). The hematite from the mine was a high, uniform, quality that was used to make the battleship grey paint that covered the ships in the Royal Navy. I think the mine closed in 1970 (oops, it was 69); I seem to remember reading it had been worked by hand from the 1820s until it closed. I don't remember where I first heard of the mine, but as a lifetime rockhound it was too fun of a fact to forget; I remembered as soon as I read Van Iron Mine... I grew up in Dutch West Michigan where every third person had a last name that started with 'Van'. V is the still the biggest letter in our phone book. Seeing it naked helped make the fact stick because it was unusual. It must have been in the original source I read. <=end digression> ...and then I talked to my good friend Google, knowing exactly what I was looking for, and made sure of dates and the exact name of the Van company, before replying. BTW, anyone have a specimen from this mine they would like to trade? I would love to make a great deal, but have never seen one offered. I like good questions because they let me learn new things. I like to read. I remember a lot of what I read/learn. It is a sad day when you don't learn something new. You are correct, I do make extensive use of the internet, databases, and my bookshelf (usually in that order) when answering questions. My professional job is being one of the IT folks who make the Internet; I have learned a few tricks that help me find specific information quickly. But this time I only used my resources to validate what I remembered. And I'll bet you never forget the 'Type Locality' for 'battleship grey' paint. Cheers! Kreigh pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > Kreigh, wow!, how do you know all this stuff? (Or do you just utilize databases and internet, to their accessible limits?) Kreigh, is that Great Rock Mine of yours, in the iron districts of Michigan, rather than New York? > > Otherwise, Dan, I was going to suggest that perhaps "van mine" was someone's shorthand for "vanadium mine", because I believe some of the magnetite deposits in NY State contain a lot of vanadium, and I think they were mined as much for the vanadium as the iron. What do you think about that idea? > > Pete Modreski > > -------------- Original message from Kreigh Tomaszewski : -------------- > > > Dan Z wrote: > > > > > > Anyone ever heard of a - probably - iron mine named the "Van Mine?" I have a > > > piece of magnetite labeled with that name. Interestingly, the magnetite is > > > in the form of a hexagonal crystal section about 5 inches long and three > > > inches diameter - perhaps a pseudo after quartz? It doesn't seem to be > > > ilmenite - dark streak and very strong magnetism. > > > > > > -dan z- > > > > > > > It might be the Great Rock Mine that was run by the Van Iron Ore Company > > in the 1870s. Micaceous Hematite was the main ore. > > _______________________________________________ From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Jan 18 20:59:14 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Jan 18 20:48:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Van Mine - heard of it? Hexagonal magnetite? References: <011920050041.25690.41EDACD100023B3A0000645A216046664807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <41EDE6AE.3484@Tomaszewski.net> pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > Kreigh, wow!, how do you know all this stuff? (Or do you just utilize databases and internet, to their accessible limits?) Kreigh, is that Great Rock Mine of yours, in the iron districts of Michigan, rather than New York? BTW, I remember reading that some miners from the Great Rock Mine were lured to the iron distrit of Michigan in the middle-late 1800s by the premium wages paid for experienced miners while starting the mines; I can't remember where I read it. Kreigh From rockcurrier at cs.com Tue Jan 18 23:35:03 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Tue Jan 18 23:33:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Carlosruizite References: <200501190200.j0J20SIB005815@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <018f01c4fdf9$667b30d0$97f7a5d8@rock5> A while back someone asked about carlosruizite. I finally got around to looking it up. Rock Carlosruizite K6(Na,K)4Na6Mg10(SeO4)12(IO3)12?12H2O Chile, Zappiga? According to the article describing the mineral in the American Mineralogist the locality for the mineral is not precisely known because it was found in samples of "caliche amarillo" found in samples taken from the former Servicio de Minas del Estado of Chile. Zappiga was thought to be a probably locality for the mineral because "caliche amarillo is especially abundant there.1 Carlosruizite is the selenium bearing end member of a series with sulfur bearing fuenzalidaite being the other end member. The mineral is described as crystals usually less then 200 mill microns as thin hexagonal plates in samples of iquiqueite. The crystals are describes as white to pale yellow, but are so small that they can't be seen with the naked eye. Selenium was not known to occur in the ores of the nitrate deposits in northern Chile until it was discovered in several specimens of nitrate ore from scattered localities in the nitrate fields. They all had selenium in amounts ranging from a few parts per million to nearly fifty parts per million. The "caliche amarillo" contains nitratine, halite darapskite, bruggerite, tarapacaite, lopezite, ulexite, probertite and gypsum. The article in the American Mineralogist shows scanning electron micrographs of the mineral. There is probably quite a lot of the mineral in the nitrate deposits of northern Chile, but it is hard to identify. It sounds like there is very little of it available. Carlos Ruiz planned and directed the first national geological institution, the Instituto de Investigaciones Geol?gicas (inaugurated in 1957). It is now the Servicio Nacional de Geolog?a & Miner?a. Of course the mineral is soluble and you should probably keep it in an environment and one where there is little fluctuation in humidity. It is associated with other soluble and not very stable minerals that in most instances will comprise the vast bulk of the specimens that will contain this mineral which occurs only in trace amounts in the specimens studded so far. Two of the major rare species dealers in the Untied States report that they have never had any of this material or have heard of any being offered on the rare specimen market. 1. "Mineralogical studies of nitrate deposits of Chile: VII. Two new saline minerals with the composition K6(Na,K)4Na6Mg10(XO4)12(IO3)12?12H2O: Fuenzalidaite (X = S) and carlosruizite (X = Se). American Mineralogist", American Mineralogist, Volume 79, p1003-1008, 1994. From mikeflan at earthlink.net Wed Jan 19 06:21:57 2005 From: mikeflan at earthlink.net (Mike Flannigan) Date: Wed Jan 19 06:19:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 8, Issue 22 References: <200501190200.j0J20SI7005815@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <41EE6D05.D26C5CF6@earthlink.net> The Van Mine in CO was a gold mine, I think. Very remote: http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=37.83139&lon=-107.83389&datum=NAD27&s=50&size=l Mike > Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 13:33:54 -0500 > From: "Dan Z" > Subject: [Rockhounds] Van Mine - heard of it? Hexagonal magnetite? > To: "Rockhound list danielz frm" , > "Rocks-Fossils list \(egroups\)" > Message-ID: <000501c4fd8c$44087430$6401a8c0@M1Garand> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" > > Anyone ever heard of a - probably - iron mine named the "Van Mine?" I have a > piece of magnetite labeled with that name. Interestingly, the magnetite is > in the form of a hexagonal crystal section about 5 inches long and three > inches diameter - perhaps a pseudo after quartz? It doesn't seem to be > ilmenite - dark streak and very strong magnetism. > > -dan z- From davidgunning at pivot.net Mon Jan 17 17:10:17 2005 From: davidgunning at pivot.net (David Gunning) Date: Thu Jan 20 06:41:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: "Topaz fluorescence etc" Message-ID: <000601c4fcfa$7a19c7f0$b8ccf342@Nancy> According to the esteemed author "Manual Robbins" in his excellently colorful book "Fluorescence: gems and minerals under ultraviolet light" topaz is reported to repond to sw/lw uv. He suggests that "The most charecteristic fluorescence of topaz is yellow." There are, accordingly, other reported uv colors including bright lemon yellow, yellow-orange, blue-white, white, and red. None of my Maine topaz, however, responds to sw or lw. Dave --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From danz at acmenet.net Tue Jan 18 11:46:00 2005 From: danz at acmenet.net (Dan Z) Date: Thu Jan 20 06:41:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Van Mine - heard of it? Hexagonal magnetite? Message-ID: <000501c4fd96$569f78f0$6401a8c0@M1Garand> Hi Pete, Thanks for the reply. The section is a slightly elongated (two faces wider) hexagon, imitated below. Unfortunately any termination is broken off. The surface features look possibly more like apatite than quartz - no striations at all, but a little "stepping" in the growth. The location is probably somewhere in or near New York State. The collectors (1940's and 50's) lived in Saratoga, and their son said most of their collecting was done not too far away. One of the mines or prospects near Ironville maybe? -dan z- ____ / \ \ ____ / _______ Dont know the locality, but if what you have is truly magnetite (and it sounds like it), it must be a pseudomorph of something else - magnetite cannot form hexagonal crystals! Is it a simple prism, or are there modifying faces? Perhaps it's a pseudomorph after ilmenite or hematite, though neither of those commonly forms a simple prism. Pete Richards (the other Pete) From SMKELL45 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 08:06:02 2005 From: SMKELL45 at aol.com (SMKELL45@aol.com) Date: Thu Jan 20 08:06:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] blue calcite Message-ID: <62D4103F.24BEEEBD.0079B709@aol.com> Bought a piece of blue calcite from the Gouveneur mine area in St. Lawrence county New York. A portion of it fluoresced whitish in sw light and phosphoresced for many seconds. In daylight the fluorescing portions appear to be white . Anyone know about the name of the fluorescing mineral. I read about the possibilities of tremolite or wollastonite. smkell From Gslrocks at aol.com Thu Jan 20 08:16:15 2005 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Thu Jan 20 08:16:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] blue calcite Message-ID: the fluorescing and phos areas could be a whitish calcite, if you have a loupe you can tell if cal or wollastonite. the wollastonites from there can actually fluor n phos in yellow, peach,blue white and last for hours. From my experience it is possible to have all3 colors of woll and also have the calcite and even hyalite on a specimen from there. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Thu Jan 20 07:31:32 2005 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Thu Jan 20 10:11:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- MakingSharedKnowledgePermanent References: Message-ID: <000001c4ff1b$7c15a650$5d4227c4@privatehome> The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary (3rd edition, 1970) gives both variations - "barite" - "Dana's name for baryte" and "barytes" - " Native sulphate of barium, heavy spar." Hence "barytic", pertaining to , or containing baryte or barium. Also "barytine" and "barytite" - synonyms of barite Thus, I suppose everyone is now confused!!?? Regards, Horst ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 7:40 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- MakingSharedKnowledgePermanent > and what about agreeing to C if I agree to D? > sphalerite vs. sfalerite > > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens liz fodi > Verzonden: dinsdag 18 januari 2005 18:02 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- > MakingSharedKnowledgePermanent > > > An interesting thread! > as for baryt/ barite celestite/celestine > I heard a story that it is barite because it is celestine. > The old "I'll agree to A if you agree to B." > > Liz > > Rik Dillen wrote: > >>Hi Pete et al, >> >>Sorry, but if the Glossary of Mineral Species (where, as far as I know, > only >>officially accepted names are used) says "barite", than it is barite, and >>not baryte. I think that in this case there is an error in the MINDAT >>database. I checked it, and indeed MINDAT says "baryte". This is typically > a >>case where I would check an official reference (such as the Glossary) if > I'm >>writing an article e.g. But that does not devaluate MINDAT in my opinion. >> >>Greetings, >> >>Rik >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >>[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Peter J. > Modreski >>Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 6:59 PM >>To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- >>MakingSharedKnowledgePermanent >> >>Just a few more comments to share about Mindat... >>... ... ... ... >>So anyway, I was curious as to what Mindat might have to say about barite >>from Kapnikbanya. The first thing I learned via Mindat was to read, >>rather >>surprisingly to me, that the official "IMA-approved" name for this mineral >>species is "Baryte", not barite. Imagine that! We all tend to be very >>provincial and forget about how mineral names do get transmuted into >>different spellings in different languages, and of course I tend to think >>that "only the Brits" write "baryte" or "barytes", and that that is their >>little own provincial thing, and of course the spelling that we Americans >>use must be "THE" correct spelling--well, maybe that's not always true. >>Other than this, I don't have much more of a story--barite (or should I > say, >>baryte, which is where one must look it up in the alphabetical Mindat > index) >>is only just listed as occurring at Kapnikbanya, no other descriptive data >>and no pictures posted. I thought perhaps I might learn something there >>about how common the dark gray, jamesonite-included (assuming that's what > it >>is) barite crystals are. I suppose this just points up what has been said >>in the List discussion about the data in Mindat--there's a LOT more than > can >>readily be added, and yes, it does seem that Mindat would be a good or >>perhaps ideal place for people to collect all this potential data. Now >>obviously, if I wanted to know more about opaque-included barite from >>Cavnic, I'd look in the Min. Record index, etc ., etc., etc., for other >>sources of articles that might describe it, and I'm sure I'd find > something. >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be Thu Jan 20 11:07:31 2005 From: herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be (herwig pelckmans) Date: Thu Jan 20 11:11:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] old? mineral names References: <000001c4ff1b$7c15a650$5d4227c4@privatehome> Message-ID: <007201c4ff23$4c9b4940$e4d876d5@telenet.be> This reminds me of the "brontosaurus story" ... in short: The name "Brontosaurus" was a widespread and frequently used dinosaur name, untill somebody pointed out that Apatosaurus was in fact the same animal. Since "Apatosaurus" was described (a few years) before Brontosaurus, the former name had priority and should as such be the "officially scientific accepted & used name" ... (see Bakker, 1986, for more details). If we reason along that same line (called the Law of Priority in the International Code for Zoological Nomenclature), then baryte, from an historical point of view, has priority and should become the "officially scientific accepted & used name" , since : The first true description of this mineral is generally accepted as being that of the German mineralogist Karsten in 1800, naming it "Baryt". The name was accepted and used by Hauy as early as 1801 (as "Baryte" , the French (and English) spelling variety). It was only in 1868 that Dana used the name "Barite" ... the spark for the widespread use of barite in the US ... On the European continent the use of baryt(e) continued ... even Strunz used it in his famous Mineralogische Tabelle (1977)... So, in short, even though I generally agree to "stick to the names used in the Glossary", there is no reason NOT to question the validity of certain mineral names mentioned therein. Final question remains what the opinion of the IMA on such matter is these days ... Sincerely, Herwig Herwig Pelckmans Worldwide Mineral Collector Cardijnstraat 12 B-3530 Helchteren Belgium Europe http://www.xlizd.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Horst Windisch" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 4:31 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- MakingSharedKnowledgePermanent > The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary (3rd edition, 1970) gives both > variations - "barite" - "Dana's name for baryte" and "barytes" - " Native > sulphate of barium, heavy spar." Hence "barytic", pertaining to , or > containing baryte or barium. > Also "barytine" and "barytite" - synonyms of barite > > Thus, I suppose everyone is now confused!!?? > > Regards, > Horst (snip) From rik.dillen at skynet.be Thu Jan 20 11:25:57 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Thu Jan 20 11:26:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] old? mineral names In-Reply-To: <007201c4ff23$4c9b4940$e4d876d5@telenet.be> Message-ID: <200501201926.j0KJPwkV006015@outmx014.isp.belgacom.be> And "ardennite" would have been "dewalquite", "sartorite" would have been "skleroclase" Greetings, Rik Dillen -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of herwig pelckmans Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 8:08 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] old? mineral names This reminds me of the "brontosaurus story" ... in short: ......... The first true description of this mineral is generally accepted as being that of the German mineralogist Karsten in 1800, naming it "Baryt". The name was accepted and used by Hauy as early as 1801 (as "Baryte" , the French (and English) spelling variety). It was only in 1868 that Dana used the name "Barite" ... the spark for the widespread use of barite in the US ... On the European continent the use of baryt(e) continued ... even Strunz used it in his famous Mineralogische Tabelle (1977)... So, in short, even though I generally agree to "stick to the names used in the Glossary", there is no reason NOT to question the validity of certain mineral names mentioned therein. Final question remains what the opinion of the IMA on such matter is these days ... Sincerely, Herwig Herwig Pelckmans From kadok at infowest.com Thu Jan 20 14:27:28 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Thu Jan 20 14:27:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] old? mineral names In-Reply-To: <007201c4ff23$4c9b4940$e4d876d5@telenet.be> Message-ID: <20050120222733.236CBCB931C@delivery.infowest.com> So then, Herwig, actually, according to what you say, the official name should "Baryt", not "Baryte", since that was the name used in the first true description---. The botanical people, with the ICBN, (the "B" being "Botanical") are also having to jump through the same sort of hoops nowadays, with lots of names being changed back to the old names! Margaret >---If we reason along that same line (called the Law of Priority in the International Code for Zoological Nomenclature), then baryte, from an historical point of view, has priority and should become the "officially scientific accepted & used name" , since : The first true description of this mineral is generally accepted as being that of the German mineralogist Karsten in 1800, naming it "Baryt". The name was accepted and used by Hauy as early as 1801 (as "Baryte" , the French (and English) spelling variety). It was only in 1868 that Dana used the name "Barite" ... the spark for the widespread use of barite in the US ... On the European continent the use of baryt(e) continued ... even Strunz used it in his famous Mineralogische Tabelle (1977)... Sincerely, Herwig Herwig Pelckmans Worldwide Mineral Collector Cardijnstraat 12 B-3530 Helchteren Belgium Europe http://www.xlizd.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Horst Windisch" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 4:31 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- MakingSharedKnowledgePermanent > The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary (3rd edition, 1970) gives both > variations - "barite" - "Dana's name for baryte" and "barytes" - " Native > sulphate of barium, heavy spar." Hence "barytic", pertaining to , or > containing baryte or barium. > Also "barytine" and "barytite" - synonyms of barite > > Thus, I suppose everyone is now confused!!?? > > Regards, > Horst (snip) _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Jan 20 14:57:13 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Jan 20 14:57:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: "Topaz fluorescence etc" In-Reply-To: <000601c4fcfa$7a19c7f0$b8ccf342@Nancy> Message-ID: Hi Dave, "Is reported to fluoresce" is just another way of saying that you'd have to be damn lucky to find one that actually fluoresces. Some topaz that "is reported" to fluoresce frequently is the variety picnite. It forms columnar masses that often fluoresce a pale yellow. There's a nice specimen from Boise (Idaho)on http://www.uvsystems.com/ ... it's one of the morphs that you get in random order when you op the home page. You may have to push the refresh-button until it appears. The book "Ultraviolet guide to minerals" by Sterling Gleason hints at germanium (not geranium ;-))) as the element causing the fluorescence. We should however realize that the book was written in 1960 when new and exiting physico-chemical methods for analysis were becoming pretty sensitive. I don't know if Ge is still on the list of known activators... is it? Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens David Gunning Verzonden: dinsdag 18 januari 2005 2:10 Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] RE: "Topaz fluorescence etc" According to the esteemed author "Manual Robbins" in his excellently colorful book "Fluorescence: gems and minerals under ultraviolet light" topaz is reported to repond to sw/lw uv. He suggests that "The most charecteristic fluorescence of topaz is yellow." There are, accordingly, other reported uv colors including bright lemon yellow, yellow-orange, blue-white, white, and red. None of my Maine topaz, however, responds to sw or lw. Dave --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From hptdesigns at charter.net Thu Jan 20 19:24:14 2005 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Thu Jan 20 19:17:39 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Absolutely awesome program--Check it out In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3k01ib$kmd81u@mxip19a.cluster1.charter.net> As I was searching the web for lat/longs to use as a source for inputting them into my new little mineral database I ran across www.lat-long.com which has hundreds of thousands of lat/longs in both dms and decimal format(what is required for my program). So since a good resource I emabedded a link onto the locality tab so that one could go directly to it. But I then noticed that it had Keyhole as an external link and did not know what it was. After downloading the player from www.keyhole.com (a susidiary of Google) I saw what I was missing. Now all I need is a faster computer--it takes a good one to run this thing--but the results are incredible. You can "fly" to any spot on the world, see it in relief, fly around it, get accurate altitudes for any location. I encourage you to check it out. It is a subscription service for $29.95 / year, which is not bad considering what you get. I have now of course included a method of attaching a keyhole file to minerals in my database. So say you have a specimen from Tsumeb, click on the link and fly there. Very kewl. Now to make real fly by movies, it takes the pro version for $600 but once you get to a location you can "fly" it yourself. Tommy Armstrong N 35* 23' 52'' W 78* 49' 9'' "Science is extraordinarily stupid about people as people and the consequence of this stupidity is going to do us all in if we don't do something about it" Walker Percy From hptdesigns at charter.net Thu Jan 20 19:26:28 2005 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Thu Jan 20 19:19:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Absolutely awesome program--Check it out In-Reply-To: <3k01ib$kmd81u@mxip19a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <3k70il$jbnc2b@mxip20a.cluster1.charter.net> PS they have a free 7 day trial. Tommy Armstrong tfa@brickengraver.com "Science is extraordinarily stupid about people as people and the consequence of this stupidity is going to do us all in if we don't do something about it" Walker Percy From tuckerj at mcn.net Thu Jan 20 19:30:54 2005 From: tuckerj at mcn.net (Chris Tucker ) Date: Thu Jan 20 19:30:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] old? mineral names Message-ID: <412005152133054281@mcn.net> Hi All, Baryte is the correct spelling of "barite". Details can be found at the IMA-CNMMN web site, http://sheba.geo.vu.nl/users/ima-cnmmn/ . I am really surprised that no one checked. Regards, Chris --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From digem at plateautel.net Thu Jan 20 20:14:36 2005 From: digem at plateautel.net (Allison & Wayne Holland) Date: Thu Jan 20 20:04:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tucson show questions... kinda off topic? Message-ID: <41F081AB.9080204@plateautel.net> Hey Everyone, I thought I would ask if anyone from the list, who is attending Tucson, plays an instrument? I've been told about a possible jam session and might even try to get one together ourselves. A & W From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Jan 20 20:11:50 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Jan 20 20:08:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Van Mine - heard of it? Hexagonal magnetite? References: <011920050041.25690.41EDACD100023B3A0000645A216046664807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <41F08047.3FED@Tomaszewski.net> Hi Pete, I figured out where I learned about the Great Rock mine... The discussion about the mine that I remembered got me thinking again about finding a specimen from this location. I did some web searching, and one of the hits was my own website. Turns out I learned about the mine from researching a specimen I received in a trade with a collector in the UK (that I met on 'the list') -- I just forgot the specimen; maybe it was a warning 'senior moment'. I feel like Grover; "I am so embarassed!". It is amazing, but the last place you look is usually where you find what you have been searching for. Took me almost an hour, but I found the specimen in my collection. Beyond insanity I plead that the original label stopped before mentioning Dartmoor in the location (added by my pencil notation on the front -- and mentioned on the back, with my pencil, that it was the "'Type Location' for 'Battleship Grey'"). Thanks for helping me rediscover a forgotten specimen. Kreigh pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > Kreigh, wow!, how do you know all this stuff? (Or do you just utilize databases and internet, to their accessible limits?) Kreigh, is that Great Rock Mine of yours, in the iron districts of Michigan, rather than New York? > > Otherwise, Dan, I was going to suggest that perhaps "van mine" was someone's shorthand for "vanadium mine", because I believe some of the magnetite deposits in NY State contain a lot of vanadium, and I think they were mined as much for the vanadium as the iron. What do you think about that idea? > > Pete Modreski > > -------------- Original message from Kreigh Tomaszewski : -------------- > > > Dan Z wrote: > > > > > > Anyone ever heard of a - probably - iron mine named the "Van Mine?" I have a > > > piece of magnetite labeled with that name. Interestingly, the magnetite is > > > in the form of a hexagonal crystal section about 5 inches long and three > > > inches diameter - perhaps a pseudo after quartz? It doesn't seem to be > > > ilmenite - dark streak and very strong magnetism. > > > > > > -dan z- > > > > > > > It might be the Great Rock Mine that was run by the Van Iron Ore Company > > in the 1870s. Micaceous Hematite was the main ore. From jemstone at amug.org Thu Jan 20 22:26:26 2005 From: jemstone at amug.org (John McLaughlin) Date: Thu Jan 20 22:26:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Absolutely awesome program--Check it out References: <3k01ib$kmd81u@mxip19a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <005701c4ff82$232623f0$f25a2741@MCWIDOM> Many thanks Tommy. This is indeed a cool site. I checked it for Arizona and found a variety of features I was unaware of. All the information plucked from the topo maps and arranged by feature, with the corresponding gps positions. A wonderful resource. John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona > As I was searching the web for lat/longs to use as a source for inputting > them into my new little mineral database I ran across www.lat-long.com > which > has hundreds of thousands of lat/longs in both dms and decimal format(what > is required for my program). So since a good resource I emabedded a link > onto the locality tab so that one could go directly to it. But I then > noticed that it had Keyhole as an external link and did not know what it > was. After downloading the player from www.keyhole.com (a susidiary of > Google) I saw what I was missing. Now all I need is a faster computer--it > takes a good one to run this thing--but the results are incredible. You > can > "fly" to any spot on the world, see it in relief, fly around it, get > accurate altitudes for any location. . . > Tommy Armstrong > N 35* 23' 52'' W 78* 49' 9'' From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Thu Jan 20 23:16:27 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Thu Jan 20 23:06:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: "Topaz fluorescence etc" References: Message-ID: <001f01c4ff89$22810620$94a5490c@pete> Axel, Dave, & the List, One locality in Idaho (I think it's the one you noted as described simply as "Boise"--somewhere, I have the more correct info) is noted for its yellow-fluorescent topaz crystals; I know I have a specimen or two of them. Yes, this is the exception for topaz; most is not, or very weakly, fluorescent. I believe the "imperial topaz" (sherry-colored), from (Mexico or Brazil, or both, I'm not sure--need to check that too!) also fluoresces. Most of the rest, especially the colorless or blue and most amber topaz, does not fluoresce at all. In Colorado, the late George Fisher collected one short- prismatic topaz crystal from the Crystal Park (shoulder of Pikes Peak) area, that fluoresces unusually strongly in certain zones near the termination of the crystal, in yellow to orange-red fluorescence colors, and the crystal itself is darker yellow-orange colored than most Pikes Peak area topaz. Most Pikes Peak batholith topaz does not fluoresce at all. I think that most topaz that fluoresces strongly tends to be from lower temperature, hydrothermal occurrences, as opposed to the higher-temperature, pegmatite origin that produces larger but non-fluorescent crystals. And Gleason's statement about germanium being the activator in topaz--was probably just someone's off-the-cuff guess he may have been quoting, with I'm pretty sure no particular data to ever substantiate it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 3:57 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] RE: "Topaz fluorescence etc" > Hi Dave, > > "Is reported to fluoresce" is just another way of saying that you'd have to > be damn lucky to find one that actually fluoresces. Some topaz that "is > reported" to fluoresce frequently is the variety picnite. It forms columnar > masses that often fluoresce a pale yellow. > There's a nice specimen from Boise (Idaho)on http://www.uvsystems.com/ ... > it's one of the morphs that you get in random order when you op the home > page. You may have to push the refresh-button until it appears. > > The book "Ultraviolet guide to minerals" by Sterling Gleason hints at > germanium (not geranium ;-))) as the element causing the fluorescence. We > should however realize that the book was written in 1960 when new and > exiting physico-chemical methods for analysis were becoming pretty > sensitive. I don't know if Ge is still on the list of known activators... is > it? > > Cheers > > Axel From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Thu Jan 20 23:37:38 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Thu Jan 20 23:27:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Van Mine - heard of it? Hexagonal magnetite? References: <011920050041.25690.41EDACD100023B3A0000645A216046664807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <41F08047.3FED@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <004701c4ff8c$15ad4dc0$94a5490c@pete> Very good, Kreigh, thanks for the explanation. I've had something similar happen; a friend mentions something about a particular specimen he's seen, in MY collection. He remembers it--I only vaguely remember it at all. "How come you know what's in my collection, better than I do???" [I guess no one's still come up with a "Van mine" that's anywhere in the N.Y. State area, that Dan thinks his specimen is from.] Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 9:11 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Van Mine - heard of it? Hexagonal magnetite? > Hi Pete, > > I figured out where I learned about the Great Rock mine... > > The discussion about the mine that I remembered got me thinking again > about finding a specimen from this location. I did some web searching, > and one of the hits was my own website. > > Turns out I learned about the mine from researching a specimen I > received in a trade with a collector in the UK (that I met on 'the > list') -- I just forgot the specimen; maybe it was a warning 'senior > moment'. > > I feel like Grover; "I am so embarassed!". > > It is amazing, but the last place you look is usually where you find > what you have been searching for. Took me almost an hour, but I found > the specimen in my collection. > > Beyond insanity I plead that the original label stopped before > mentioning Dartmoor in the location (added by my pencil notation on the > front -- and mentioned on the back, with my pencil, that it was the > "'Type Location' for 'Battleship Grey'"). > > Thanks for helping me rediscover a forgotten specimen. > > Kreigh From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Jan 21 01:54:55 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Jan 21 01:55:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: "Topaz fluorescence etc" In-Reply-To: <001f01c4ff89$22810620$94a5490c@pete> Message-ID: Pete wrote >I think that most topaz that fluoresces strongly tends to be from lower >temperature, hydrothermal occurrences, as opposed to the higher-temperature, >pegmatite origin that produces larger but non-fluorescent crystals. Hi Pete, do you mean the formation of topaz in the last stages of the pectolite's formation? Isn't that the most water-rich stage? In that case I can imagine lots of ions and soluble stuff that didn't fit in in the earlier formation of rock and crystals would be hard pressed to find a resting place. Do we fluorescence collectors need to look for that last formed part of a pegmatite or am I wrong? >Gleason's statement about germanium being the activator in topaz--was >probably just someone's off-the-cuff guess he may have been quoting, with >I'm pretty sure no particular data to ever substantiate it. Makes you wonder where all the fairy tales about fluorescence come from ;-))) This Sterling Gleason book is 45 years old... people collect them as paraphernalia to their collection and, of course, I have it too. But alas... some read it in the old fashioned state of mind : "if it's printed, it must be true". Cheers Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 3:57 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] RE: "Topaz fluorescence etc" > Hi Dave, > > "Is reported to fluoresce" is just another way of saying that you'd have to > be damn lucky to find one that actually fluoresces. Some topaz that "is > reported" to fluoresce frequently is the variety picnite. It forms columnar > masses that often fluoresce a pale yellow. > There's a nice specimen from Boise (Idaho)on http://www.uvsystems.com/ ... > it's one of the morphs that you get in random order when you op the home > page. You may have to push the refresh-button until it appears. > > The book "Ultraviolet guide to minerals" by Sterling Gleason hints at > germanium (not geranium ;-))) as the element causing the fluorescence. We > should however realize that the book was written in 1960 when new and > exiting physico-chemical methods for analysis were becoming pretty > sensitive. I don't know if Ge is still on the list of known activators... is > it? > > Cheers > > Axel _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From shm at tapnet.net Fri Jan 21 05:39:52 2005 From: shm at tapnet.net (SHM) Date: Fri Jan 21 05:39:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] blue calcite In-Reply-To: <62D4103F.24BEEEBD.0079B709@aol.com> Message-ID: <000001c4ffbe$b05c61d0$aee4a5ce@D3JM7W21> As Greg noted, sounds like wollastonite. Two easy ways to narrow this down: the calcite will fizz in dilute hydrochloric acid or even vinegar, and the wollastonite will not. The calcite will show characteristic rhombohedral cleavage in three directions, but the wollastonite is splintery and breaks into long fragments (can be painful when collecting this stuff . . .). Cheers- Earl Verbeek -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of SMKELL45@aol.com Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 11:06 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] blue calcite Bought a piece of blue calcite from the Gouveneur mine area in St. Lawrence county New York. A portion of it fluoresced whitish in sw light and phosphoresced for many seconds. In daylight the fluorescing portions appear to be white . Anyone know about the name of the fluorescing mineral. I read about the possibilities of tremolite or wollastonite. smkell _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tim at orerockon.com Fri Jan 21 07:30:47 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Jan 21 07:30:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: "Topaz fluorescence etc" In-Reply-To: <001f01c4ff89$22810620$94a5490c@pete> References: <001f01c4ff89$22810620$94a5490c@pete> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20050121073014.02f5dd58@mail.spiritone.com> Pete, would that be Dismal Swamp? At 11:16 PM 1/20/2005, you wrote: >Axel, Dave, & the List, > >One locality in Idaho (I think it's the one you noted as described simply as >"Boise"--somewhere, I have the more correct info) is noted for its >yellow-fluorescent topaz crystals; I know I have a specimen or two of them. >Yes, this is the exception for topaz; most is not, or very weakly, >fluorescent. I believe the "imperial topaz" (sherry-colored), from (Mexico >or Brazil, or both, I'm not sure--need to check that too!) also fluoresces. >Most of the rest, especially the colorless or blue and most amber topaz, >does not fluoresce at all. > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site Owner, Fisher Fisheries, Ltd. nospam@OreRockOn.com WWW http://OreRockOn.com From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Fri Jan 21 07:49:44 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Fri Jan 21 07:49:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Out the door for Tucson Message-ID: <41F12498.8060801@tenforward.com> Hi Everyone, No more long overly wordy papers here, just a short and sweet announcement.... Come on by and say hello. I'll be in room 186 at the Inn Suites. Travel safely everyone and take care, John From pjmodreski at att.net Fri Jan 21 08:48:31 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Fri Jan 21 08:48:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Out the door for Tucson Message-ID: <012120051648.9254.41F1325E000C7E7300002426215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Hi John, I'm trying to remember if I've ever met & visited you in person (in Tucson). I'm always so busy by the time I get there, that I really don't get visit a very large proportion of all the dealers' rooms. But hopefully I can manage to come by and say hello, there at the Inn Suites 186! best regards, Pete Modreski -------------- Original message from John and Gloria Cornish : -------------- > Hi Everyone, > > No more long overly wordy papers here, just a short and sweet > announcement.... > > Come on by and say hello. I'll be in room 186 at the Inn Suites. > > Travel safely everyone and take care, > > John > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be Fri Jan 21 09:04:06 2005 From: herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be (herwig pelckmans) Date: Fri Jan 21 09:07:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Out the door for Tucson References: <41F12498.8060801@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <01af01c4ffdb$38052b00$e4d876d5@telenet.be> See you in a few days !! Take care & have a safe trip !!! Your friends, Herwig & Chris & kids Herwig Pelckmans Worldwide Mineral Collector Cardijnstraat 12 B-3530 Helchteren Belgium Europe http://www.xlizd.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John and Gloria Cornish" To: "Drizzle" Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 4:49 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Out the door for Tucson > Hi Everyone, > > No more long overly wordy papers here, just a short and sweet > announcement.... > > Come on by and say hello. I'll be in room 186 at the Inn Suites. > > Travel safely everyone and take care, > > John > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From afox at drizzle.com Fri Jan 21 09:19:43 2005 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Fri Jan 21 09:19:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Gone for a while Message-ID: Gents, I'll be gone on project work all next week, and then on a vacation to Finland for a week where I will not have 'Net access. So there will be no forwarding of bounces, no admin services, etc. I should be back on list duties by early Feb. Play nice until I get back. And have fun at Tuscon :-) Aaron Rockhounds Admin -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From lanny at lrream.com Fri Jan 21 09:48:59 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Fri Jan 21 09:47:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] old? mineral names In-Reply-To: <412005152133054281@mcn.net> References: <412005152133054281@mcn.net> Message-ID: Hi Chris and all, Good call. It is surprising that no one had checked the list previously. I am surprised that the commission went with the "y" spelling considering other decisions. An interesting observation is that there is no listing for "barite" on that list. The others minerals where there are two commonly used spellings had the other spelling there also, but listed as discredited. Now I'm losing all faith in The Mineralogical Record as my leader (Ha! Ha!). Supposedly it uses only the approved names, yet it uses barite not baryte and both celestine and celestite. Regards, Lanny On Jan 20, 2005, at 7:30 PM, Chris Tucker wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > Baryte is the correct spelling of "barite". Details can be found at > the IMA-CNMMN web site, http://sheba.geo.vu.nl/users/ima-cnmmn/ . > I am really surprised that no one checked. > > > Regards, > > > Chris > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > text/html (html body -- converted) > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From morningstar at att.net Fri Jan 21 10:00:19 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Fri Jan 21 10:00:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] old? mineral names Message-ID: <012120051800.670.41F143330004EAE90000029E21602807489D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Something is amiss here. I can't imagine "baryte" is the approved spelling when "barite" is used ubiquitously; and while Fleischer's does occasionally have mistakes, Joe Mandarino was after all the Chairman of the CNMMN, and I doubt he'd let something like that slip by. This requires further snooping. At this point I might mention that BARYTE should be the correct spelling, given its precedence; however, given the standardization on "-ITE" as the approved suffix for mineral names, and the widespread use of BARITE, I can't imagine that BARITE wouldn't be the current approved spelling, hands-down. Don > Good call. It is surprising that no one had checked the list > previously. I am surprised that the commission went with the "y" > spelling considering other decisions. An interesting observation is > that there is no listing for "barite" on that list. The others minerals > where there are two commonly used spellings had the other spelling > there also, but listed as discredited. From lanny at lrream.com Fri Jan 21 10:38:00 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Fri Jan 21 10:35:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: "Topaz fluorescence etc" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <93AEA5DA-6BDB-11D9-BBAB-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi Axel and Pete, The topaz from the Sawtooth Mountains, Idaho are the fluorescent topazes that Pete is referring to. You might have to be lucky to find one, only in the fact that they never were abundant and now the locality is closed. Fluorescence is fairly common in them, Pete can go visit Larry and Carmen Piekenbrock's specimens (possible first twinned topaz) from the locality. In my collection, quite a few of them fluoresce. The fluorescence is a light to bright yellow, and best under long wave; sometimes there is a bit of an orangish tint. Fluorescence is confined to the central portion of the crystal, running the length of the crystal. It varies from a very thin to thick layer. Most of the crystals that are cloudy show fluorescence and some that are transparent/gem quality also show some fluorescence. The occurrence is miarolitic cavities in Tertiary granite, with some small pegmatite pods. The photo on the home page of UVSystems is labeled "Boise County," and is probably a Sawtooth specimen from the looks of it. Boise County is one of the three counties the Sawtooths are in (Boise, Custer and Elmore counties). As to the Dismal Swamp locality, I have no idea; topaz from there is very scarce, and I don't believe I've ever seen one. Regards, Lanny On Jan 20, 2005, at 2:57 PM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Hi Dave, > > "Is reported to fluoresce" is just another way of saying that you'd > have to > be damn lucky to find one that actually fluoresces. Some topaz that "is > reported" to fluoresce frequently is the variety picnite. It forms > columnar > masses that often fluoresce a pale yellow. > There's a nice specimen from Boise (Idaho)on http://www.uvsystems.com/ > ... > it's one of the morphs that you get in random order when you op the > home > page. You may have to push the refresh-button until it appears. > > The book "Ultraviolet guide to minerals" by Sterling Gleason hints at > germanium (not geranium ;-))) as the element causing the fluorescence. > We > should however realize that the book was written in 1960 when new and > exiting physico-chemical methods for analysis were becoming pretty > sensitive. I don't know if Ge is still on the list of known > activators... is > it? > > Cheers > > Axel From rockcurrier at cs.com Fri Jan 21 10:49:33 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Fri Jan 21 10:47:39 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fleischer's and officially accepted names. References: <200501210201.j0L21eMs018308@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <027001c4ffe9$f3197050$97f7a5d8@rock5> Joe Mandarino quite properly pointed out to me some years ago (sort of like "wake up dummy") that Fleischer's Glossary of Mineral species does not just have "official" names. I had not really thought about it much and thought the Glossary had only official names just like some of the members of this chat group do. The IMA, the International Mineralogical Association is the international group that has a committee that decides what is official and what is not. Joe told me that he makes an effort to include all the official names in the Glossary, but that there are many names that the committee has never voted on, like gold, lead, silver, topaz etc, etc that have never been approved mainly because they have always been accepted and the committee has never felt the need to say "Yes, a diamond is a diamond." Until the committee votes on all the minerals there will be no official list. Also, any mineralogist worth his salt has their own list that will differ with that of other mineralogists because they feel strongly that some "official" minerals are bogus and some not official minerals are "real" minerals. Rock ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 6:01 PM Subject: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 8, Issue 24 > Send Rockhounds mailing list submissions to > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > rockhounds-owner@lists.drizzle.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Rockhounds digest..." > > > [Rockhounds-Digest] > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Van Mine - heard of it? Hexagonal magnetite? (Dan Z) > 2. RE: "Topaz fluorescence etc" (David Gunning) > 3. blue calcite (SMKELL45@aol.com) > 4. Re: blue calcite (Gslrocks@aol.com) > 5. Re: Re: Mindat Survival -- MakingSharedKnowledgePermanent > (Horst Windisch) > 6. Re: old? mineral names (herwig pelckmans) > 7. RE: old? mineral names (Rik Dillen) > 8. RE: old? mineral names (Margaret Malm) > 9. RE: RE: "Topaz fluorescence etc" (Axel Emmermann) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 14:46:00 -0500 > From: "Dan Z" > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Van Mine - heard of it? Hexagonal magnetite? > To: "Rockhound list danielz frm" > Message-ID: <000501c4fd96$569f78f0$6401a8c0@M1Garand> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset="Windows-1252" > > Hi Pete, > > Thanks for the reply. The section is a slightly elongated (two faces wider) > hexagon, imitated below. Unfortunately any termination is broken off. The > surface features look possibly more like apatite than quartz - no striations > at all, but a little "stepping" in the growth. The location is probably > somewhere in or near New York State. The collectors (1940's and 50's) lived > in Saratoga, and their son said most of their collecting was done not too > far away. One of the mines or prospects near Ironville maybe? > > -dan z- > ____ > / \ > \ ____ / > > _______ > > Dont know the locality, but if what you have is truly magnetite (and it > sounds like it), it must be a pseudomorph of something else - magnetite > cannot form hexagonal crystals! > > Is it a simple prism, or are there modifying faces? Perhaps it's a > pseudomorph after ilmenite or hematite, though neither of those commonly > forms a simple prism. > > Pete Richards > (the other Pete) > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:10:17 -0500 > From: "David Gunning" > Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: "Topaz fluorescence etc" > To: > Message-ID: <000601c4fcfa$7a19c7f0$b8ccf342@Nancy> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" > > > According to the esteemed author "Manual Robbins" in his excellently colorful book "Fluorescence: gems and minerals under ultraviolet light" topaz is reported to repond to sw/lw uv. He suggests that "The most charecteristic fluorescence of topaz is yellow." There are, accordingly, other reported uv colors including bright lemon yellow, yellow-orange, blue-white, white, and red. > > None of my Maine topaz, however, responds to sw or lw. > > Dave > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 11:06:02 -0500 > From: SMKELL45@aol.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] blue calcite > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Message-ID: <62D4103F.24BEEEBD.0079B709@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Bought a piece of blue calcite from the Gouveneur mine area in St. Lawrence county New York. A portion of it fluoresced whitish in sw light and phosphoresced for many seconds. In daylight the fluorescing portions appear to be white . Anyone know about the name of the fluorescing mineral. I read about the possibilities of tremolite or wollastonite. smkell > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 11:16:15 EST > From: Gslrocks@aol.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] blue calcite > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > the fluorescing and phos areas could be a whitish calcite, if you have a > loupe you can tell if cal or wollastonite. the wollastonites from there can > actually fluor n phos in yellow, peach,blue white and last for hours. From my > experience it is possible to have all3 colors of woll and also have the calcite and > even hyalite on a specimen from there. > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:31:32 +0200 > From: "Horst Windisch" > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- > MakingSharedKnowledgePermanent > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: <000001c4ff1b$7c15a650$5d4227c4@privatehome> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary (3rd edition, 1970) gives both > variations - "barite" - "Dana's name for baryte" and "barytes" - " Native > sulphate of barium, heavy spar." Hence "barytic", pertaining to , or > containing baryte or barium. > Also "barytine" and "barytite" - synonyms of barite > > Thus, I suppose everyone is now confused!!?? > > Regards, > Horst > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Axel Emmermann" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 7:40 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- > MakingSharedKnowledgePermanent > > > > and what about agreeing to C if I agree to D? > > sphalerite vs. sfalerite > > > > Axel > > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens liz fodi > > Verzonden: dinsdag 18 januari 2005 18:02 > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- > > MakingSharedKnowledgePermanent > > > > > > An interesting thread! > > as for baryt/ barite celestite/celestine > > I heard a story that it is barite because it is celestine. > > The old "I'll agree to A if you agree to B." > > > > Liz > > > > Rik Dillen wrote: > > > >>Hi Pete et al, > >> > >>Sorry, but if the Glossary of Mineral Species (where, as far as I know, > > only > >>officially accepted names are used) says "barite", than it is barite, and > >>not baryte. I think that in this case there is an error in the MINDAT > >>database. I checked it, and indeed MINDAT says "baryte". This is typically > > a > >>case where I would check an official reference (such as the Glossary) if > > I'm > >>writing an article e.g. But that does not devaluate MINDAT in my opinion. > >> > >>Greetings, > >> > >>Rik > >> > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > >>[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Peter J. > > Modreski > >>Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 6:59 PM > >>To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > >>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- > >>MakingSharedKnowledgePermanent > >> > >>Just a few more comments to share about Mindat... > >>... ... ... ... > >>So anyway, I was curious as to what Mindat might have to say about barite > >>from Kapnikbanya. The first thing I learned via Mindat was to read, > >>rather > >>surprisingly to me, that the official "IMA-approved" name for this mineral > >>species is "Baryte", not barite. Imagine that! We all tend to be very > >>provincial and forget about how mineral names do get transmuted into > >>different spellings in different languages, and of course I tend to think > >>that "only the Brits" write "baryte" or "barytes", and that that is their > >>little own provincial thing, and of course the spelling that we Americans > >>use must be "THE" correct spelling--well, maybe that's not always true. > >>Other than this, I don't have much more of a story--barite (or should I > > say, > >>baryte, which is where one must look it up in the alphabetical Mindat > > index) > >>is only just listed as occurring at Kapnikbanya, no other descriptive data > >>and no pictures posted. I thought perhaps I might learn something there > >>about how common the dark gray, jamesonite-included (assuming that's what > > it > >>is) barite crystals are. I suppose this just points up what has been said > >>in the List discussion about the data in Mindat--there's a LOT more than > > can > >>readily be added, and yes, it does seem that Mindat would be a good or > >>perhaps ideal place for people to collect all this potential data. Now > >>obviously, if I wanted to know more about opaque-included barite from > >>Cavnic, I'd look in the Min. Record index, etc ., etc., etc., for other > >>sources of articles that might describe it, and I'm sure I'd find > > something. > >> > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >>Subscription Services: > >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 20:07:31 +0100 > From: "herwig pelckmans" > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] old? mineral names > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: <007201c4ff23$4c9b4940$e4d876d5@telenet.be> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" > > This reminds me of the "brontosaurus story" ... in short: > > The name "Brontosaurus" was a widespread and frequently used dinosaur name, > untill somebody pointed out that Apatosaurus was in fact the same animal. > Since "Apatosaurus" was described (a few years) before Brontosaurus, the > former name had priority and should as such be the "officially scientific > accepted & used name" ... (see Bakker, 1986, for more details). > > If we reason along that same line (called the Law of Priority in the > International Code for Zoological Nomenclature), then baryte, from an > historical point of view, has priority and should become the "officially > scientific accepted & used name" , since : > > The first true description of this mineral is generally accepted as being > that of the German mineralogist Karsten in 1800, naming it "Baryt". The name > was accepted and used by Hauy as early as 1801 (as "Baryte" , the French > (and English) spelling variety). > It was only in 1868 that Dana used the name "Barite" ... the spark for the > widespread use of barite in the US ... > On the European continent the use of baryt(e) continued ... even Strunz used > it in his famous Mineralogische Tabelle (1977)... > > So, in short, even though I generally agree to "stick to the names used in > the Glossary", there is no reason NOT to question the validity of certain > mineral names mentioned therein. Final question remains what the opinion of > the IMA on such matter is these days ... > > Sincerely, Herwig > > Herwig Pelckmans > Worldwide Mineral Collector > Cardijnstraat 12 > B-3530 Helchteren > Belgium Europe > http://www.xlizd.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Horst Windisch" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 4:31 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- > MakingSharedKnowledgePermanent > > > > The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary (3rd edition, 1970) gives both > > variations - "barite" - "Dana's name for baryte" and "barytes" - " Native > > sulphate of barium, heavy spar." Hence "barytic", pertaining to , or > > containing baryte or barium. > > Also "barytine" and "barytite" - synonyms of barite > > > > Thus, I suppose everyone is now confused!!?? > > > > Regards, > > Horst > (snip) > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 20:25:57 +0100 > From: "Rik Dillen" > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] old? mineral names > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors'" > Message-ID: <200501201926.j0KJPwkV006015@outmx014.isp.belgacom.be> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset="US-ASCII" > > And "ardennite" would have been "dewalquite", > "sartorite" would have been "skleroclase" > > Greetings, > > Rik Dillen > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of herwig pelckmans > Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 8:08 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] old? mineral names > > This reminds me of the "brontosaurus story" ... in short: > > ......... > The first true description of this mineral is generally accepted as being > that of the German mineralogist Karsten in 1800, naming it "Baryt". The name > was accepted and used by Hauy as early as 1801 (as "Baryte" , the French > (and English) spelling variety). > It was only in 1868 that Dana used the name "Barite" ... the spark for the > widespread use of barite in the US ... > On the European continent the use of baryt(e) continued ... even Strunz used > it in his famous Mineralogische Tabelle (1977)... > So, in short, even though I generally agree to "stick to the names used in > the Glossary", there is no reason NOT to question the validity of certain > mineral names mentioned therein. Final question remains what the opinion of > the IMA on such matter is these days ... > > Sincerely, Herwig > > Herwig Pelckmans > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 15:27:28 -0700 > From: "Margaret Malm" > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] old? mineral names > To: "'herwig pelckmans'" , > "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > > Message-ID: <20050120222733.236CBCB931C@delivery.infowest.com> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" > > > So then, Herwig, actually, according to what you say, the official name > should "Baryt", not "Baryte", since that was the name used in the first true > description---. > > The botanical people, with the ICBN, (the "B" being "Botanical") are also > having to jump through the same sort of hoops nowadays, with lots of names > being changed back to the old names! > > Margaret > > >---If we reason along that same line (called the Law of Priority in the > International Code for Zoological Nomenclature), then baryte, from an > historical point of view, has priority and should become the "officially > scientific accepted & used name" , since : > > The first true description of this mineral is generally accepted as being > that of the German mineralogist Karsten in 1800, naming it "Baryt". The name > was accepted and used by Hauy as early as 1801 (as "Baryte" , the French > (and English) spelling variety). > It was only in 1868 that Dana used the name "Barite" ... the spark for the > widespread use of barite in the US ... > On the European continent the use of baryt(e) continued ... even Strunz used > it in his famous Mineralogische Tabelle (1977)... > > > Sincerely, Herwig > > Herwig Pelckmans > Worldwide Mineral Collector > Cardijnstraat 12 > B-3530 Helchteren > Belgium Europe > http://www.xlizd.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Horst Windisch" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 4:31 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Mindat Survival -- > MakingSharedKnowledgePermanent > > > > The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary (3rd edition, 1970) gives both > > variations - "barite" - "Dana's name for baryte" and "barytes" - " Native > > sulphate of barium, heavy spar." Hence "barytic", pertaining to , or > > containing baryte or barium. > > Also "barytine" and "barytite" - synonyms of barite > > > > Thus, I suppose everyone is now confused!!?? > > > > Regards, > > Horst > (snip) > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 23:57:13 +0100 > From: "Axel Emmermann" > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] RE: "Topaz fluorescence etc" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi Dave, > > "Is reported to fluoresce" is just another way of saying that you'd have to > be damn lucky to find one that actually fluoresces. Some topaz that "is > reported" to fluoresce frequently is the variety picnite. It forms columnar > masses that often fluoresce a pale yellow. > There's a nice specimen from Boise (Idaho)on http://www.uvsystems.com/ ... > it's one of the morphs that you get in random order when you op the home > page. You may have to push the refresh-button until it appears. > > The book "Ultraviolet guide to minerals" by Sterling Gleason hints at > germanium (not geranium ;-))) as the element causing the fluorescence. We > should however realize that the book was written in 1960 when new and > exiting physico-chemical methods for analysis were becoming pretty > sensitive. I don't know if Ge is still on the list of known activators... is > it? > > Cheers > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens David Gunning > Verzonden: dinsdag 18 januari 2005 2:10 > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] RE: "Topaz fluorescence etc" > > > > According to the esteemed author "Manual Robbins" in his excellently > colorful book "Fluorescence: gems and minerals under ultraviolet light" > topaz is reported to repond to sw/lw uv. He suggests that "The most > charecteristic fluorescence of topaz is yellow." There are, accordingly, > other reported uv colors including bright lemon yellow, yellow-orange, > blue-white, white, and red. > > None of my Maine topaz, however, responds to sw or lw. > > Dave > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds mailing list > Rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > End of Rockhounds Digest, Vol 8, Issue 24 > ***************************************** > From diente at prismnet.com Fri Jan 21 11:46:11 2005 From: diente at prismnet.com (diente@prismnet.com) Date: Fri Jan 21 11:46:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: "Topaz fluorescence etc" In-Reply-To: <93AEA5DA-6BDB-11D9-BBAB-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> References: Message-ID: <41F107A3.22653.14BFDF7A@localhost> Hi, guys. I'm just going on memory here, but I thought there were some fluorescent topaz from the Zapot mine, that came out a few years ago. Is this the same location as the Sawtooth Mountains? Nevada is the locality that was embedded in my recollection, but I may be wrong. Paul Bordovsky Austin, TX > Hi Axel and Pete, > > The topaz from the Sawtooth Mountains, Idaho are the fluorescent > topazes that Pete is referring to. You might have to be lucky to find > one, only in the fact that they never were abundant and now the > locality is closed. Fluorescence is fairly common in them, Pete can go > visit Larry and Carmen Piekenbrock's specimens (possible first twinned > topaz) from the locality. > > In my collection, quite a few of them fluoresce. The fluorescence is a > light to bright yellow, and best under long wave; sometimes there is a > bit of an orangish tint. Fluorescence is confined to the central > portion of the crystal, running the length of the crystal. It varies > from a very thin to thick layer. Most of the crystals that are cloudy > show fluorescence and some that are transparent/gem quality also show > some fluorescence. > > The occurrence is miarolitic cavities in Tertiary granite, with some > small pegmatite pods. > > The photo on the home page of UVSystems is labeled "Boise County," and > is probably a Sawtooth specimen from the looks of it. Boise County is > one of the three counties the Sawtooths are in (Boise, Custer and > Elmore counties). > > As to the Dismal Swamp locality, I have no idea; topaz from there is > very scarce, and I don't believe I've ever seen one. > > Regards, > > Lanny > > On Jan 20, 2005, at 2:57 PM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > Hi Dave, > > > > "Is reported to fluoresce" is just another way of saying that you'd > > have to > > be damn lucky to find one that actually fluoresces. Some topaz that "is > > reported" to fluoresce frequently is the variety picnite. It forms > > columnar > > masses that often fluoresce a pale yellow. > > There's a nice specimen from Boise (Idaho)on http://www.uvsystems.com/ > > ... > > it's one of the morphs that you get in random order when you op the > > home > > page. You may have to push the refresh-button until it appears. > > > > The book "Ultraviolet guide to minerals" by Sterling Gleason hints at > > germanium (not geranium ;-))) as the element causing the fluorescence. > > We > > should however realize that the book was written in 1960 when new and > > exiting physico-chemical methods for analysis were becoming pretty > > sensitive. I don't know if Ge is still on the list of known > > activators... is > > it? > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From kahako at aloha.net Fri Jan 21 11:51:05 2005 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Jan 21 11:51:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Gone for a while In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.0.20050121094253.01ff0b78@mail.aloha.net> GENTS? !!! I suppose that all the women on this list will chalk the slip up to your being stressed out, Aaron. Have a good trip and come back less stressed. Aloha, Kitty At 07:19 AM 1/21/2005, you wrote: >Gents, > >I'll be gone on project work all next week, and then on a vacation to >Finland for a week where I will not have 'Net access. So there will be no >forwarding of bounces, no admin services, etc. I should be back on list >duties by early Feb. > >Play nice until I get back. And have fun at Tuscon :-) > >Aaron >Rockhounds Admin From kahako at aloha.net Fri Jan 21 12:02:38 2005 From: kahako at aloha.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Jan 21 12:02:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Out the door for Tucson In-Reply-To: <41F12498.8060801@tenforward.com> References: <41F12498.8060801@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.0.20050121100000.03a244c8@mail.aloha.net> Bill and I sure wish we could make it to the Tucson show. Best wishes to all attending. Have a safe trip, good buying and selling, and most of all, have fun! Aloha, Kitty At 05:49 AM 1/21/2005, you wrote: >Hi Everyone, > >No more long overly wordy papers here, just a short and sweet announcement.... > >Come on by and say hello. I'll be in room 186 at the Inn Suites. > >Travel safely everyone and take care, > >John From lanny at lrream.com Fri Jan 21 14:00:34 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Fri Jan 21 13:58:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: "Topaz fluorescence etc" In-Reply-To: <41F107A3.22653.14BFDF7A@localhost> References: <41F107A3.22653.14BFDF7A@localhost> Message-ID: Hi Paul, Yes, the Zapot claim is near Hawthorne, Nevada, but I can't find any reference to it being fluorescent. It's a pegmatite that was operated by Harvey Gordon. I remembered to check MinDex for fluorescent topaz and found a reference to specimens from Afghanistan and Pakistan in Rocks & Minerals, Nov.-Dec., 1988, V. 63 # 6 p. 487-488, by Manuel Robbins "Fluorescent Forum." Regards, Lanny On Jan 21, 2005, at 11:46 AM, diente@prismnet.com wrote: > Hi, guys. > > I'm just going on memory here, but I thought there were some > fluorescent topaz from the > Zapot mine, that came out a few years ago. Is this the same location > as the Sawtooth > Mountains? Nevada is the locality that was embedded in my > recollection, but I may be > wrong. > > Paul Bordovsky > Austin, TX > >> Hi Axel and Pete, >> >> The topaz from the Sawtooth Mountains, Idaho are the fluorescent >> topazes that Pete is referring to. You might have to be lucky to find >> one, only in the fact that they never were abundant and now the >> locality is closed. Fluorescence is fairly common in them, Pete can go >> visit Larry and Carmen Piekenbrock's specimens (possible first twinned >> topaz) from the locality. >> >> In my collection, quite a few of them fluoresce. The fluorescence is a >> light to bright yellow, and best under long wave; sometimes there is a >> bit of an orangish tint. Fluorescence is confined to the central >> portion of the crystal, running the length of the crystal. It varies >> from a very thin to thick layer. Most of the crystals that are cloudy >> show fluorescence and some that are transparent/gem quality also show >> some fluorescence. >> >> The occurrence is miarolitic cavities in Tertiary granite, with some >> small pegmatite pods. >> >> The photo on the home page of UVSystems is labeled "Boise County," and >> is probably a Sawtooth specimen from the looks of it. Boise County is >> one of the three counties the Sawtooths are in (Boise, Custer and >> Elmore counties). >> >> As to the Dismal Swamp locality, I have no idea; topaz from there is >> very scarce, and I don't believe I've ever seen one. >> >> Regards, >> >> Lanny >> >> On Jan 20, 2005, at 2:57 PM, Axel Emmermann wrote: >> >>> Hi Dave, >>> >>> "Is reported to fluoresce" is just another way of saying that you'd >>> have to >>> be damn lucky to find one that actually fluoresces. Some topaz that >>> "is >>> reported" to fluoresce frequently is the variety picnite. It forms >>> columnar >>> masses that often fluoresce a pale yellow. >>> There's a nice specimen from Boise (Idaho)on >>> http://www.uvsystems.com/ >>> ... >>> it's one of the morphs that you get in random order when you op the >>> home >>> page. You may have to push the refresh-button until it appears. >>> >>> The book "Ultraviolet guide to minerals" by Sterling Gleason hints at >>> germanium (not geranium ;-))) as the element causing the >>> fluorescence. >>> We >>> should however realize that the book was written in 1960 when new and >>> exiting physico-chemical methods for analysis were becoming pretty >>> sensitive. I don't know if Ge is still on the list of known >>> activators... is >>> it? >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Axel >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Fri Jan 21 15:41:20 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Fri Jan 21 15:31:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: "Topaz fluorescence etc" References: <001f01c4ff89$22810620$94a5490c@pete> <6.2.0.14.2.20050121073014.02f5dd58@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <002a01c50012$b7622100$a3a4490c@pete> Tim, Lanny, and the gang, Well, it shows you how much I know, I guess I've not heard of the "Dismal Swamp" mineral locality. Actually, I think I thought Dismal Swamp was in Virgina. I guess Idaho has one of everything, too. And, Kitty (changing the subject--sneaking this one in!)--surely, Aaron meant for "Gents" = Gentle People or Gentle Folk. What's wrong with that? Aloha, -- but wait, Kitty, you've changed your address, so I guess we can't say "Aloha" to you any more, I guess it has to be "Verizon" now. Does that also mean both hello or goodbye? [After all, Verizon does sound just a little bit like "Wiedersehen", no? But then now... what does kaka-kaka mean? (or did you already explain that on the list and I missed it) (oops, excuse me, it's kahako; well, I was close.) Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 8:30 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] RE: "Topaz fluorescence etc" > Pete, would that be Dismal Swamp? > As to the Dismal Swamp locality, I have no idea; topaz from there is very scarce, and I don't believe I've ever seen one. Regards, Lanny From rico at ricosweb.com Fri Jan 21 15:44:01 2005 From: rico at ricosweb.com (Rich Allen) Date: Fri Jan 21 15:44:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] old? mineral names In-Reply-To: <012120051800.670.41F143330004EAE90000029E21602807489D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: <200512116441.717271@rallen> On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 18:00:19 +0000, morningstar@att.net wrote: >?Something is amiss here. ?I can't imagine "baryte" is the approved spelling when "barite" is used ubiquitously; and while Fleischer's does occasionally have mistakes, Joe Mandarino was after all the Chairman of the CNMMN, and I doubt he'd let something like that slip by. ?This requires further snooping. > >?At this point I might mention that BARYTE should be the correct spelling, given its precedence; however, given the standardization on "-ITE" as the approved suffix for mineral names, and the widespread use of BARITE, I can't imagine that BARITE wouldn't be the current approved spelling, hands-down. Why can't there be more than one "correct" spelling?? Just curious. Rich Allen From lanny at lrream.com Fri Jan 21 16:31:00 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Fri Jan 21 16:28:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: "Topaz fluorescence etc" In-Reply-To: <002a01c50012$b7622100$a3a4490c@pete> References: <001f01c4ff89$22810620$94a5490c@pete> <6.2.0.14.2.20050121073014.02f5dd58@mail.spiritone.com> <002a01c50012$b7622100$a3a4490c@pete> Message-ID: Hi Pete, Dismal Swamp is an appropriately named swamp in the mountains up the Boise River, east of Boise. It is a swampy depression in the Tertiary granite of the Dismal Swamp stock (between the Steel Mountain stock and the Twin Springs pluton; all three bodies are Tertiary granites with miarolitic cavitites. Makes one think of good mineral collecting, but all three are nothing like the Sawtooth Mountains (high elevation exposures with lots of fresh rock), these three are lower elevations, poor exposures, mostly good vegetation cover and the outcrops are weathered and rounded with only rare cavities exposed. Dismal Swamp is a placer deposit with topaz and smoky quartz that sits in a depression in the mountains. People dig in the creek above the swamp for smoky quartz and below it for smoky quartz and topaz. The swamp was mined by Simplot (the potato and phosphate king of Idaho) for quartz during WW II, at which time topaz was recovered by the workers. I say it is appropriately named because the two times I was there it was very hot, nasty biting bugs (very aggressive horseflies, blackflies and others) were out in thick swarms and nasty thunderstorms rolled through the area. But I still want to go back and find a topaz specimen. Regards, Lanny On Jan 21, 2005, at 3:41 PM, Peter J. Modreski wrote: > Tim, Lanny, and the gang, > > Well, it shows you how much I know, I guess I've not heard of the > "Dismal > Swamp" mineral locality. Actually, I think I thought Dismal Swamp was > in > Virgina. I guess Idaho has one of everything, too. > > And, Kitty (changing the subject--sneaking this one in!)--surely, Aaron > meant for "Gents" = Gentle People or Gentle Folk. What's wrong with > that? > > Aloha, -- but wait, Kitty, you've changed your address, so I guess we > can't > say "Aloha" to you any more, I guess it has to be "Verizon" now. Does > that > also mean both hello or goodbye? [After all, Verizon does sound just a > little bit like "Wiedersehen", no? But then now... what does kaka-kaka > mean? (or did you already explain that on the list and I missed it) > (oops, > excuse me, it's kahako; well, I was close.) > > Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Fisher" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > > Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 8:30 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] RE: "Topaz fluorescence etc" > > >> Pete, would that be Dismal Swamp? >> > > As to the Dismal Swamp locality, I have no idea; topaz from there is > very > scarce, and I don't believe I've ever seen one. > Regards, Lanny > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From morningstar at att.net Fri Jan 21 17:39:18 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Fri Jan 21 17:36:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] old? mineral names In-Reply-To: <200512116441.717271@rallen> References: <200512116441.717271@rallen> Message-ID: <41F1AEC6.2000201@att.net> Rich Allen wrote: > > Why can't there be more than one "correct" spelling?? Just curious. > > Rich Allen Well, it depends on what you mean by "correct." This is primarily for the sake of consistency on the scientific side. The names of over 4,000 species have been accepted and listed as the official names of the minerals, and according to IMA protocol, each species has a name that is spelled in English orthography (which means that, for example, that the mineral SUGILITE might be named in honor of a Japanese individual, but the formal name is transliterated into English, not Kanji characters). I can't imagine why we wouldn't strive to have one consistent spelling for a word, especially when that word is a formal name for something. This matters most when publishing in American Mineralogist, Canadian Mineralogist, etc. There are plenty of international variants--for example, I have German labels with "barit", "kwartz,", etc.--but the formal spelling remains the same in the literature. Don From hptdesigns at charter.net Fri Jan 21 18:12:27 2005 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Fri Jan 21 18:12:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] old? mineral names In-Reply-To: <41F1AEC6.2000201@att.net> Message-ID: <3khdfd$hkoetf@mxip04a.cluster1.charter.net> Well not to get too persnickity about this problem, what "is" English? You know that Clinton statement "it depends on the definition of the word 'is'". Now, the naturally occuring compound BaSO4, is spelled as barytes in England, and the English language originated in England, then it seems to me it must be barytes. Is the word "colour" or "color"--"favourite" or "favorite". The word barytes and barite refer to the same thing and are used by two different languages-therefore they are both valid words. And they both mean the same thing BaSO4. Is the word y'all or yall or you all or just plain you. Now come on Don, you know the world is not going to end if the same chemical compound has two words that signify it. In language there really is not necessarily one "correct" spelling. Just as in mineralogy there is no definitely define chemical formula for many approved minerals. Tommy Armstrong tfa@brickengraver.com "Science is extraordinarily stupid about people as people and the consequence of this stupidity is going to do us all in if we don't do something about it" Walker Percy > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Don H > Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 8:39 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] old? mineral names > > Rich Allen wrote: > > > > Why can't there be more than one "correct" spelling?? Just curious. > > > > Rich Allen > > Well, it depends on what you mean by "correct." This is > primarily for the sake of consistency on the scientific side. > The names of over 4,000 species have been accepted and > listed as the official names of the minerals, and according > to IMA protocol, each species has a name that is spelled in > English orthography (which means that, for example, that the > mineral SUGILITE might be named in honor of a Japanese > individual, but the formal name is transliterated into > English, not Kanji characters). > I can't imagine why we wouldn't strive to have one consistent > spelling for a word, especially when that word is a formal > name for something. > > This matters most when publishing in American Mineralogist, > Canadian Mineralogist, etc. There are plenty of > international variants--for example, I have German labels > with "barit", "kwartz,", etc.--but the formal spelling > remains the same in the literature. > > Don > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From mikeflan at earthlink.net Fri Jan 21 19:02:41 2005 From: mikeflan at earthlink.net (Mike Flannigan) Date: Fri Jan 21 19:00:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Van Mine - heard of it? Hexagonal magnetite? References: <200501220029.j0M0T7Gj018931@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <41F1C250.2606AC9E@earthlink.net> All of these are in New York: Van Gravel Pit - Broome County ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Van Wie Farm Prospect - Essex County ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Van Buren Pit - Genesee County ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Van Slyke Pit - Onondaga County ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Vanornum Deposit - St Lawrence County ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike > Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 00:37:38 -0700 > From: "Peter J. Modreski" > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Van Mine - heard of it? Hexagonal magnetite? > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: <004701c4ff8c$15ad4dc0$94a5490c@pete> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" > > Very good, Kreigh, thanks for the explanation. > > I've had something similar happen; a friend mentions something about a > particular specimen he's seen, in MY collection. He remembers it--I only > vaguely remember it at all. "How come you know what's in my collection, > better than I do???" > > [I guess no one's still come up with a "Van mine" that's anywhere in the > N.Y. State area, that Dan thinks his specimen is from.] > > Pete From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jan 21 20:04:03 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jan 21 20:04:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] old? mineral names References: <3khdfd$hkoetf@mxip04a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <41F1D0AF.36DA@Tomaszewski.net> Tommy, So that there is no confusion in academic papers, the accepted names (of minerals) MUST be used. Sometimes it DOES make a difference. Every object gets a name; it is a human trait that goes back to the beginnings of language (and possibly humanity, see Genesis 2:19). Words that became accepted early tend to have less syllables than more recent words -- there are only so many syllables to go around. Sure, slang and varients come about commonly, and words change as translated between languages, but the OFICIALLY accepted noun remains, and is used in proper/formal communications so there is no doubt about what is being discussed. BTW, I find it interesting that many collectors have Barite crystals, but they also have ({red} sandstone) Baryte Roses. If it was possible to get the WORLD to formally agree on a word, why not use it? Kreigh Tommy Armstrong wrote: > > Well not to get too persnickity about this problem, what "is" English? You > know that Clinton statement "it depends on the definition of the word 'is'". > Now, the naturally occuring compound BaSO4, is spelled as barytes in > England, and the English language originated in England, then it seems to me > it must be barytes. Is the word "colour" or "color"--"favourite" or > "favorite". The word barytes and barite refer to the same thing and are used > by two different languages-therefore they are both valid words. And they > both mean the same thing BaSO4. Is the word y'all or yall or you all or just > plain you. Now come on Don, you know the world is not going to end if the > same chemical compound has two words that signify it. In language there > really is not necessarily one "correct" spelling. Just as in mineralogy > there is no definitely define chemical formula for many approved minerals. > > Tommy Armstrong > tfa@brickengraver.com > > "Science is extraordinarily stupid about people as people and the > consequence of this stupidity is going to do us all in if we don't do > something about it" > Walker Percy > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Don H > > Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 8:39 PM > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] old? mineral names > > > > Rich Allen wrote: > > > > > > Why can't there be more than one "correct" spelling?? Just curious. > > > > > > Rich Allen > > > > Well, it depends on what you mean by "correct." This is > > primarily for the sake of consistency on the scientific side. > > The names of over 4,000 species have been accepted and > > listed as the official names of the minerals, and according > > to IMA protocol, each species has a name that is spelled in > > English orthography (which means that, for example, that the > > mineral SUGILITE might be named in honor of a Japanese > > individual, but the formal name is transliterated into > > English, not Kanji characters). > > I can't imagine why we wouldn't strive to have one consistent > > spelling for a word, especially when that word is a formal > > name for something. > > > > This matters most when publishing in American Mineralogist, > > Canadian Mineralogist, etc. There are plenty of > > international variants--for example, I have German labels > > with "barit", "kwartz,", etc.--but the formal spelling > > remains the same in the literature. > > > > Don From scottkleine at greatbasinminerals.com Fri Jan 21 21:47:31 2005 From: scottkleine at greatbasinminerals.com (Scott Kleine, Great Basin Minerals) Date: Fri Jan 21 21:55:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Great Basin Minerals at Tucson! References: <005a01c4f771$65bc7070$2030e4cf@photogra80luks> Message-ID: <0bc101c50045$dd5e5ee0$5919c93f@gbm> Hello All Tucson Go'ers! I invite one and all to visit my Tucson showroom at the Inn Suites Hotel, ROOM #169, from the 29th of January, thru the 13th of February. My theme this year is "Nevada Bonanza"! I will have one of the finest and most diverse displays of Nevada mineral specimens ever shown in one room. I will have superb specimens of Getchell mine getchellite, Getchell mine red galkhaite, Meikle golden barite, Meikle millerite and pyrite, Murray sugarcube barite, Murray stibnite, SSX barite, Twin Creeks mine orpiment and barite, Marigold mine blue barite, Hot Creek Range quartz-after-barite epimorphs, Peterson amethyst scepters, a 75 and 351 carat faceted Peterson Amethyst, Bottomley stibnite-included quartz crystals, Virgin Valley fire opals, Nevada fulgarites, and LOTS more! Oh, don't forget to see my 1-1/2 POUND Austin (Reese River district) Nevada crystallized silver specimen from the 1880's! I will also have a fine selection of faceted California benitoites, World-class Fresnoite crystals, and world classic specimens. This will be my best room ever! Come on by and say Hi! All the best! Scott Kleine- Great Basin Minerals www.greatbasinminerals.com scottkleine@greatbasinminerals.com From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Fri Jan 21 22:11:39 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Fri Jan 21 22:02:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: "Topaz fluorescence etc" References: <001f01c4ff89$22810620$94a5490c@pete><6.2.0.14.2.20050121073014.02f5dd58@mail.spiritone.com><002a01c50012$b7622100$a3a4490c@pete> Message-ID: <000701c50049$3dd7e9a0$91a5490c@pete> Thank you for explaining that, Lanny--now I know (about what I figured it would be). But I couldn't resist following up on this one. I just searched the USGS Geographic Names Database, and it came up with 95 place names containing "Dismal". So, I know see that there is a "Dismal Swamp" in Arkansas, California, Connecticut, Florida, Idaho, Iowa, Louisiana, Maine, Minnesota, North Carolina, New York, Oregon, andTennessee; and Virginia has a "Dismal Swamp Canal" but no Dismal Swamp on our topo maps as such, apparently. (Leaving out all the Dismal creeks, branches, gaps, hollows, ridges, mountains, etc.) Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 5:31 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] RE: "Topaz fluorescence etc" > Hi Pete, > > Dismal Swamp is an appropriately named swamp in the mountains up the > Boise River, east of Boise. It is a swampy depression in the Tertiary > granite of the Dismal Swamp stock (between the Steel Mountain stock and > the Twin Springs pluton; all three bodies are Tertiary granites with > miarolitic cavitites. Makes one think of good mineral collecting, but > all three are nothing like the Sawtooth Mountains (high elevation > exposures with lots of fresh rock), these three are lower elevations, > poor exposures, mostly good vegetation cover and the outcrops are > weathered and rounded with only rare cavities exposed. > > Dismal Swamp is a placer deposit with topaz and smoky quartz that sits > in a depression in the mountains. People dig in the creek above the > swamp for smoky quartz and below it for smoky quartz and topaz. The > swamp was mined by Simplot (the potato and phosphate king of Idaho) for > quartz during WW II, at which time topaz was recovered by the workers. > > I say it is appropriately named because the two times I was there it > was very hot, nasty biting bugs (very aggressive horseflies, blackflies > and others) were out in thick swarms and nasty thunderstorms rolled > through the area. But I still want to go back and find a topaz > specimen. > > Regards, > > Lanny > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Jan 22 02:39:26 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Jan 22 02:39:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: "Topaz fluorescence etc" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lanny wrote: I say it is appropriately named because the two times I was there it was very hot, nasty biting bugs (very aggressive horseflies, blackflies and others) were out in thick swarms and nasty thunderstorms rolled through the area. But I still want to go back and find a topaz specimen. at which Axel replies: WHAT? No man-eating, pony-sized spiders??? Cheers Axel From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Jan 22 03:09:48 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Jan 22 03:09:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] old? mineral names In-Reply-To: <3khdfd$hkoetf@mxip04a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: Hi Tommy & Don there are some differences indeed between mineral names in different languages: Here's an example: German Dutch English French Fluorit Fluoriet Fluorite Fluorite Zinkblende Sfaleriet Sphalerite Sphalerite There are not always big confusions as a result of this but bad practice in naming minerals may enhance another problem. I took the following text from our website. It's the caption of a barytocalcite photo. "The name 'barytocalcite' is somewhat of a puzzle. It is the recognized name of the monoclinic form of barium-calcium carbonate. It is also the obsolete name of alstonite which is the triclinic form of BaCa(CO3)2. Mixtures of calcite and baryte were also referred to as 'barytocalcite' in the past. Even more confusing is the fact that the actual barytocalcite is often found in a granular form, mixed with calcite." If you misspell a name like that, there is most likely no one on this planet who knows what you mean. ;-))) So there is a case for accurate spelling and conformity... Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Tommy Armstrong Verzonden: donderdag 22 december 2005 3:19 Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] old? mineral names Well not to get too persnickity about this problem, what "is" English? You know that Clinton statement "it depends on the definition of the word 'is'". Now, the naturally occuring compound BaSO4, is spelled as barytes in England, and the English language originated in England, then it seems to me it must be barytes. Is the word "colour" or "color"--"favourite" or "favorite". The word barytes and barite refer to the same thing and are used by two different languages-therefore they are both valid words. And they both mean the same thing BaSO4. Is the word y'all or yall or you all or just plain you. Now come on Don, you know the world is not going to end if the same chemical compound has two words that signify it. In language there really is not necessarily one "correct" spelling. Just as in mineralogy there is no definitely define chemical formula for many approved minerals. Tommy Armstrong tfa@brickengraver.com "Science is extraordinarily stupid about people as people and the consequence of this stupidity is going to do us all in if we don't do something about it" Walker Percy > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Don H > Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 8:39 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] old? mineral names > > Rich Allen wrote: > > > > Why can't there be more than one "correct" spelling?? Just curious. > > > > Rich Allen > > Well, it depends on what you mean by "correct." This is > primarily for the sake of consistency on the scientific side. > The names of over 4,000 species have been accepted and > listed as the official names of the minerals, and according > to IMA protocol, each species has a name that is spelled in > English orthography (which means that, for example, that the > mineral SUGILITE might be named in honor of a Japanese > individual, but the formal name is transliterated into > English, not Kanji characters). > I can't imagine why we wouldn't strive to have one consistent > spelling for a word, especially when that word is a formal > name for something. > > This matters most when publishing in American Mineralogist, > Canadian Mineralogist, etc. There are plenty of > international variants--for example, I have German labels > with "barit", "kwartz,", etc.--but the formal spelling > remains the same in the literature. > > Don > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From matt.kings at btinternet.com Fri Jan 21 16:00:10 2005 From: matt.kings at btinternet.com (Matt King) Date: Sat Jan 22 04:03:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Barite Message-ID: <000a01c50015$5709f230$0202a8c0@mklaptop> Living in England, I thought I'd add my 2 cents worth. Barite was, until the 1950s, most often called Barytes (note the "s" at the end). It then became abbreviated to Baryte, and then after to Barite. I don't really think it matters what its called, as many other minerals have alternate recognised names. Before even the name Barytes was invented, the mineral was known by miners as "Heavy Spar". The word spar refers to any mineral that is cleavable and lustrous. Hence the mineral feldspar, and the old name for fluorite "fluospar". 99% of collectors in the UK refer to the mineral as Barite, but there has been some movement in recent years to return to the old name of Barytes. However, to be honest, no one is taking these guys very seriously. Thus I think the name Barite will stick as the ongoing name. Regards Matt --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rico at ricosweb.com Sat Jan 22 09:06:28 2005 From: rico at ricosweb.com (Rich Allen) Date: Sat Jan 22 09:06:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] old? mineral names In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200512210628.706563@lanpc> Stumbling into this again... I agree that scientific papers should be as accurate as possible when describing a mineral, but isn't that what the chemical formula is for? If there's more than one common spelling, list them all in the article. If there are other minerals that have been incorrectly given the same name (currently or in the past) note that too. Even in a small, limited space article there should be room for this kind of information. It seems obvious to me, but then my rockhounding consists entirely of bringing home attractive yard rocks and potential lapidary material. I don't label anything, and really nice pieces are "displayed" on top of a computer monitor or window sill. :) I'm just being curious, this thread has been going on for a while. Rich Allen From lanny at lrream.com Sat Jan 22 09:14:51 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sat Jan 22 09:12:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: "Topaz fluorescence etc" In-Reply-To: <000701c50049$3dd7e9a0$91a5490c@pete> References: <001f01c4ff89$22810620$94a5490c@pete><6.2.0.14.2.20050121073014.02f5dd58@mail.spiritone.com><002a01c50012$b7622100$a3a4490c@pete> <000701c50049$3dd7e9a0$91a5490c@pete> Message-ID: <206C1527-6C99-11D9-AF0C-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi Pete, That's no surprise. Dismal Swamp is one of those names that is so natural. There probably aren't very many Beautiful Swamps and Wonderful Swamps around. Even with all those Dismal Swamps in the country, I've heard of only one that is a locality for topaz and smoky quartz! Lanny On Jan 21, 2005, at 10:11 PM, Peter J. Modreski wrote: > Thank you for explaining that, Lanny--now I know (about what I figured > it > would be). > > But I couldn't resist following up on this one. I just searched the > USGS > Geographic Names Database, and it came up with 95 place names > containing > "Dismal". So, I know see that there is a "Dismal Swamp" in Arkansas, > California, Connecticut, Florida, Idaho, Iowa, Louisiana, Maine, > Minnesota, > North Carolina, New York, Oregon, andTennessee; and Virginia has a > "Dismal > Swamp Canal" but no Dismal Swamp on our topo maps as such, apparently. > (Leaving out all the Dismal creeks, branches, gaps, hollows, ridges, > mountains, etc.) > > Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lanny" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > > Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 5:31 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] RE: "Topaz fluorescence etc" > > >> Hi Pete, >> >> Dismal Swamp is an appropriately named swamp in the mountains up the >> Boise River, east of Boise. It is a swampy depression in the Tertiary >> granite of the Dismal Swamp stock (between the Steel Mountain stock >> and >> the Twin Springs pluton; all three bodies are Tertiary granites with >> miarolitic cavitites. Makes one think of good mineral collecting, but >> all three are nothing like the Sawtooth Mountains (high elevation >> exposures with lots of fresh rock), these three are lower elevations, >> poor exposures, mostly good vegetation cover and the outcrops are >> weathered and rounded with only rare cavities exposed. >> >> Dismal Swamp is a placer deposit with topaz and smoky quartz that sits >> in a depression in the mountains. People dig in the creek above the >> swamp for smoky quartz and below it for smoky quartz and topaz. The >> swamp was mined by Simplot (the potato and phosphate king of Idaho) >> for >> quartz during WW II, at which time topaz was recovered by the workers. >> >> I say it is appropriately named because the two times I was there it >> was very hot, nasty biting bugs (very aggressive horseflies, >> blackflies >> and others) were out in thick swarms and nasty thunderstorms rolled >> through the area. But I still want to go back and find a topaz >> specimen. >> >> Regards, >> >> Lanny >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Jan 22 10:45:54 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Jan 22 10:43:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] old? mineral names References: <200512210628.706563@lanpc> Message-ID: <41F29EE1.7846@Tomaszewski.net> Rich, Minerals are formally defined by their physical structure -- the angles and distances between the atoms that make up each molecule. Many minerals have the same chemical formula but different structures; the K feldspars, microcline and orthoclase, for example. Kreigh Rich Allen wrote: > > Stumbling into this again... I agree that scientific papers should be as accurate as possible when describing a mineral, but isn't that what the chemical formula is for? If there's more than one common spelling, list them all in the article. If there are other minerals that have been incorrectly given the same name (currently or in the past) note that too. Even in a small, limited space article there should be room for this kind of information. > > It seems obvious to me, but then my rockhounding consists entirely of bringing home attractive yard rocks and potential lapidary material. I don't label anything, and really nice pieces are "displayed" on top of a computer monitor or window sill. :) I'm just being curious, this thread has been going on for a while. > > Rich Allen > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Sat Jan 22 10:59:52 2005 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Sat Jan 22 11:10:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] old? mineral names References: <3khdfd$hkoetf@mxip04a.cluster1.charter.net> <41F1D0AF.36DA@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000101c500b5$f9b3adf0$ed4027c4@DMS> Hi Kreigh, A word about "correct" spelling. Another "problem area" well-known to most of us is that there is an "English" English spelling and an "American" English spelling. A good example is "colour" ("English"0 and "color" ("American"). Thus the spelling of certain words is dependant upon in which country an article or letter is published. Thus let's not be TOO critical in this case. Horst----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 6:04 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] old? mineral names > Tommy, > > So that there is no confusion in academic papers, the accepted names (of > minerals) MUST be used. Sometimes it DOES make a difference. > > Every object gets a name; it is a human trait that goes back to the > beginnings of language (and possibly humanity, see Genesis 2:19). Words > that became accepted early tend to have less syllables than more recent > words -- there are only so many syllables to go around. > > Sure, slang and varients come about commonly, and words change as > translated between languages, but the OFICIALLY accepted noun remains, > and is used in proper/formal communications so there is no doubt about > what is being discussed. > > BTW, I find it interesting that many collectors have Barite crystals, > but they also have ({red} sandstone) Baryte Roses. > > If it was possible to get the WORLD to formally agree on a word, why not > use it? > > Kreigh > > > > > Tommy Armstrong wrote: >> >> Well not to get too persnickity about this problem, what "is" English? >> You >> know that Clinton statement "it depends on the definition of the word >> 'is'". >> Now, the naturally occuring compound BaSO4, is spelled as barytes in >> England, and the English language originated in England, then it seems to >> me >> it must be barytes. Is the word "colour" or "color"--"favourite" or >> "favorite". The word barytes and barite refer to the same thing and are >> used >> by two different languages-therefore they are both valid words. And they >> both mean the same thing BaSO4. Is the word y'all or yall or you all or >> just >> plain you. Now come on Don, you know the world is not going to end if the >> same chemical compound has two words that signify it. In language there >> really is not necessarily one "correct" spelling. Just as in mineralogy >> there is no definitely define chemical formula for many approved >> minerals. >> >> Tommy Armstrong >> tfa@brickengraver.com >> >> "Science is extraordinarily stupid about people as people and the >> consequence of this stupidity is going to do us all in if we don't do >> something about it" >> Walker Percy >> >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Don H >> > Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 8:39 PM >> > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >> > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] old? mineral names >> > >> > Rich Allen wrote: >> > > >> > > Why can't there be more than one "correct" spelling?? Just curious. >> > > >> > > Rich Allen >> > >> > Well, it depends on what you mean by "correct." This is >> > primarily for the sake of consistency on the scientific side. >> > The names of over 4,000 species have been accepted and >> > listed as the official names of the minerals, and according >> > to IMA protocol, each species has a name that is spelled in >> > English orthography (which means that, for example, that the >> > mineral SUGILITE might be named in honor of a Japanese >> > individual, but the formal name is transliterated into >> > English, not Kanji characters). >> > I can't imagine why we wouldn't strive to have one consistent >> > spelling for a word, especially when that word is a formal >> > name for something. >> > >> > This matters most when publishing in American Mineralogist, >> > Canadian Mineralogist, etc. There are plenty of >> > international variants--for example, I have German labels >> > with "barit", "kwartz,", etc.--but the formal spelling >> > remains the same in the literature. >> > >> > Don > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Sat Jan 22 11:04:07 2005 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Sat Jan 22 11:10:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] old? mineral names References: <200512116441.717271@rallen> <41F1AEC6.2000201@att.net> Message-ID: <000201c500b5$fa1703a0$ed4027c4@DMS> "Kwartz" is NOT a German spelling!! The correct German spelling is "Quarz" Horst ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don H" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 3:39 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] old? mineral names > Rich Allen wrote: >> >> Why can't there be more than one "correct" spelling?? Just curious. >> >> Rich Allen > > Well, it depends on what you mean by "correct." This is primarily for the > sake of consistency on the scientific side. The names of over 4,000 > species have been accepted and listed as the official names of the > minerals, and according to IMA protocol, each species has a name that is > spelled in English orthography (which means that, for example, that the > mineral SUGILITE might be named in honor of a Japanese individual, but the > formal name is transliterated into English, not Kanji characters). I can't > imagine why we wouldn't strive to have one consistent spelling for a word, > especially when that word is a formal name for something. > > This matters most when publishing in American Mineralogist, Canadian > Mineralogist, etc. There are plenty of international variants--for > example, I have German labels with "barit", "kwartz,", etc.--but the > formal spelling remains the same in the literature. > > Don > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Sat Jan 22 11:14:33 2005 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn's Mail) Date: Sat Jan 22 11:14:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] old? mineral names References: <200512116441.717271@rallen> Message-ID: <007e01c500b6$9b61e860$6601a8c0@GlennWimpee> As in diefferent languages.......... Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Allen" > > Why can't there be more than one "correct" spelling?? Just curious. > > Rich Allen > From geenet2 at mchsi.com Sat Jan 22 12:22:24 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (geenet2@mchsi.com) Date: Sat Jan 22 12:22:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: "Dismal..etc" Message-ID: <012220052022.22429.4bcb@mchsi.com> How did you miss Dismal's Swamp, Alabama? Home of glowing worms and other unique ecological flora and fauna, probably some rocks too. Jeanette from Alabama and never been to Dismal's Swamp....yet. > Hi Pete, > > That's no surprise. Dismal Swamp is one of those names that is so > natural. There probably aren't very many Beautiful Swamps and > Wonderful Swamps around. Even with all those Dismal Swamps in the > country, I've heard of only one that is a locality for topaz and smoky > quartz! > > Lanny > > On Jan 21, 2005, at 10:11 PM, Peter J. Modreski wrote: > > > Thank you for explaining that, Lanny--now I know (about what I figured > > it > > would be). > > > > But I couldn't resist following up on this one. I just searched the > > USGS > > Geographic Names Database, and it came up with 95 place names > > containing > > "Dismal". So, I know see that there is a "Dismal Swamp" in Arkansas, > > California, Connecticut, Florida, Idaho, Iowa, Louisiana, Maine, > > Minnesota, > > North Carolina, New York, Oregon, andTennessee; and Virginia has a > > "Dismal > > Swamp Canal" but no Dismal Swamp on our topo maps as such, apparently. > > (Leaving out all the Dismal creeks, branches, gaps, hollows, ridges, > > mountains, etc.) > > > > Pete > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lanny" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors" > > > > Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 5:31 PM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] RE: "Topaz fluorescence etc" > > > > > >> Hi Pete, > >> > >> Dismal Swamp is an appropriately named swamp in the mountains up the > >> Boise River, east of Boise. It is a swampy depression in the Tertiary > >> granite of the Dismal Swamp stock (between the Steel Mountain stock > >> and > >> the Twin Springs pluton; all three bodies are Tertiary granites with > >> miarolitic cavitites. Makes one think of good mineral collecting, but > >> all three are nothing like the Sawtooth Mountains (high elevation > >> exposures with lots of fresh rock), these three are lower elevations, > >> poor exposures, mostly good vegetation cover and the outcrops are > >> weathered and rounded with only rare cavities exposed. > >> > >> Dismal Swamp is a placer deposit with topaz and smoky quartz that sits > >> in a depression in the mountains. People dig in the creek above the > >> swamp for smoky quartz and below it for smoky quartz and topaz. The > >> swamp was mined by Simplot (the potato and phosphate king of Idaho) > >> for > >> quartz during WW II, at which time topaz was recovered by the workers. > >> > >> I say it is appropriately named because the two times I was there it > >> was very hot, nasty biting bugs (very aggressive horseflies, > >> blackflies > >> and others) were out in thick swarms and nasty thunderstorms rolled > >> through the area. But I still want to go back and find a topaz > >> specimen. > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Lanny > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From SMKELL45 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 13:29:14 2005 From: SMKELL45 at aol.com (SMKELL45@aol.com) Date: Sat Jan 22 13:29:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Franckeite and fluorescence Message-ID: <1d9.34d1b559.2f241faa@aol.com> Bought a piece of Franckeite with Zinkenite hairs and hit it with sw. I got either a slightly yellowish -white or a bluish white hit. It's hard to tell for sure because the areas were so small. In daylight the fluorescing areas show as small whitish areas located around small depressions in the massive Francheite. The specimen is from the San Jose mine in Bolivia. Any ideas on what it might be? smkell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From michelblondieau at freegates.be Sat Jan 22 14:01:18 2005 From: michelblondieau at freegates.be (Michel Blondieau) Date: Sat Jan 22 14:02:39 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] old? mineral names References: <200501201926.j0KJPwkV006015@outmx014.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: <41F2CD2E.4090001@freegates.be> and for type locality, it's the same. For example, type locality for willemite is Moresnet (Belgium) and not Franklin (USA)... Rik Dillen a ?crit: >And "ardennite" would have been "dewalquite", >"sartorite" would have been "skleroclase" > >Greetings, > >Rik Dillen > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of herwig pelckmans >Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 8:08 PM >To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] old? mineral names > >This reminds me of the "brontosaurus story" ... in short: > >......... >The first true description of this mineral is generally accepted as being >that of the German mineralogist Karsten in 1800, naming it "Baryt". The name >was accepted and used by Hauy as early as 1801 (as "Baryte" , the French >(and English) spelling variety). >It was only in 1868 that Dana used the name "Barite" ... the spark for the >widespread use of barite in the US ... >On the European continent the use of baryt(e) continued ... even Strunz used >it in his famous Mineralogische Tabelle (1977)... >So, in short, even though I generally agree to "stick to the names used in >the Glossary", there is no reason NOT to question the validity of certain >mineral names mentioned therein. Final question remains what the opinion of >the IMA on such matter is these days ... > >Sincerely, Herwig > >Herwig Pelckmans > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.1 - Release Date: 19/01/2005 From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sat Jan 22 15:13:30 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sat Jan 22 15:03:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: "Dismal..etc" References: <012220052022.22429.4bcb@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <002101c500d7$fe3238c0$eaa5490c@pete> I think it's because I had the database retrieve only "Dismal" but not "Dismal's"--I did not check the box to include variations of the name. For those who haven't tried it, that Geographic Names Information System (GNIS) on our USGS website can be real interesting to search through--find all the versions you'd ever want to see of any particular named feature, whether in one state or in the whole country. It's at http://geonames.usgs.gov/ and it's not super-obvious where to start searching on the page that comes up, but you click on "Query GNIS - U.S. and territories". Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 1:22 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] RE: "Dismal..etc" > How did you miss Dismal's Swamp, Alabama? Home of glowing worms and other > unique ecological flora and fauna, probably some rocks too. > Jeanette > from Alabama and never been to Dismal's Swamp....yet. > > Hi Pete, > > > > That's no surprise. Dismal Swamp is one of those names that is so > > natural. There probably aren't very many Beautiful Swamps and > > Wonderful Swamps around. Even with all those Dismal Swamps in the > > country, I've heard of only one that is a locality for topaz and smoky > > quartz! > > > > Lanny > > > > On Jan 21, 2005, at 10:11 PM, Peter J. Modreski wrote: > > > > > Thank you for explaining that, Lanny--now I know (about what I figured > > > it > > > would be). > > > > > > But I couldn't resist following up on this one. I just searched the > > > USGS > > > Geographic Names Database, and it came up with 95 place names > > > containing > > > "Dismal". So, I know see that there is a "Dismal Swamp" in Arkansas, > > > California, Connecticut, Florida, Idaho, Iowa, Louisiana, Maine, > > > Minnesota, > > > North Carolina, New York, Oregon, andTennessee; and Virginia has a > > > "Dismal > > > Swamp Canal" but no Dismal Swamp on our topo maps as such, apparently. > > > (Leaving out all the Dismal creeks, branches, gaps, hollows, ridges, > > > > mountains, etc.) > > > > > > Pete From magnet at crocoite.com Sat Jan 22 23:50:48 2005 From: magnet at crocoite.com (magnet) Date: Sat Jan 22 23:50:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: 'Dismal..etc' Message-ID: <20050123075048.3439.qmail@webmachine101.com> There's a Dismal Swamp in north western Tasmania too. No minerals, but it is well-known for it's fossils of extinct marsupial megafauna. Regards Steve --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From timeman123 at optonline.net Sun Jan 23 05:08:59 2005 From: timeman123 at optonline.net (Robert A. Santee) Date: Sun Jan 23 05:17:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) Message-ID: <000c01c5014c$b4382d90$a48e5043@rsantee> NEW TO THE LIST.FROM NEW JERSEY LIKE TO COLLECT HEULANDITE,CHALCOPYRITE,PYRITE,GARNETS,CALCITE,QUARTS,FRANKLINTE,FLUORITE.I ALSO LIKE TO COLLECT IN NEW YORK STATE FOR THOES NICE HERKMER DIAMONDS.I HAVE BEEN COLLECTING FOR 20 YEARS,OK THATS IT FOR NOW WILL BE TALKING AGAIN. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Sun Jan 23 08:05:14 2005 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Sun Jan 23 07:58:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral Message-ID: <000a01c50165$534ae8b0$a67ba118@feldsparflash> For all of you in wonderful warm collecting areas, we have an abundance of the mineral ice as in snowflakes here in the Mid-Hudson Valley, New York. I was admiring the pile of layered snow against my window, hummm..layered ice flakes must be sedimentary as it packs down...and then metamorphic as it becomes solid ice... My friends think I am a bit spooky when I can see or think rocks.. in most situations. Now then...is there anyone that supports water as a mineral..it's liquid.. but so is mercury. Carolyn Reynard Mid-Hudson Valley Gem & Mineral Society --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sun Jan 23 08:18:24 2005 From: Mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sun Jan 23 08:18:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral In-Reply-To: <000a01c50165$534ae8b0$a67ba118@feldsparflash> References: <000a01c50165$534ae8b0$a67ba118@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <41F3CE50.7080001@xs4all.nl> Hi Carolyn, I'm still waiting for a nice snow shower at temperatures below -5C. They are rare here in Holland, since most snow falls around freezing point. The idea is to set up my microscope outside, catsc a few falling flakes on a piece of black paper and then try to photograph the crystals. As for water as a liquid mineral. sure why not? I nevert understood why mercury is regarded a mineral in it's liquid state while water is only a mineral in it's solid state, while both minerals are liquid at room temperature. But my opinion is not important. Are there any rules regarding temperature and the definition of a mineral?. There are countless minerals (or phases) which are stable only above or below certain temperatures. Take for instance the famous Acanthite/Argentite or alpha/beta quartz. With mankind expanding where none has gone before, Titan, Mars etc we are bound to find more such phases. On Titan we now have 'lava' consisting of water ice and rivers of methane. If we call water a mineral on earth, methane should be a mineral on Titan by the same definition. And if methane is a mineral on Titan, we have our first gaseous mineral overhere. I'd better strart buying gas proof MM boxes :-) cheers, Maurice Carolyn Reynard wrote: >For all of you in wonderful warm collecting areas, we have an abundance of the mineral ice as in snowflakes here in the Mid-Hudson Valley, New York. > >I was admiring the pile of layered snow against my window, hummm..layered ice flakes must be sedimentary as it packs down...and then metamorphic as it becomes solid ice... > >My friends think I am a bit spooky when I can see or think rocks.. in most situations. > >Now then...is there anyone that supports water as a mineral..it's liquid.. >but so is mercury. > >Carolyn Reynard >Mid-Hudson Valley Gem & Mineral Society > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > From dmschmidt at sprint.ca Sun Jan 23 08:24:44 2005 From: dmschmidt at sprint.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Sun Jan 23 08:24:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral References: <000a01c50165$534ae8b0$a67ba118@feldsparflash> <41F3CE50.7080001@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <1eb901c50168$0f900350$6402a8c0@remains> a friend of mine, as an exercise in "let's see if we can do it", used a refrigerated truck and facetted a piece of ice...several carats in the end- an IF round brilliant!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice de Graaf" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 9:18 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral > Hi Carolyn, > > I'm still waiting for a nice snow shower at temperatures below -5C. They > are rare here in Holland, since most snow falls around freezing point. The > idea is to set up my microscope outside, catsc a few falling flakes on a > piece of black paper and then try to photograph the crystals. > > As for water as a liquid mineral. sure why not? I nevert understood why > mercury is regarded a mineral in it's liquid state while water is only a > mineral in it's solid state, while both minerals are liquid at room > temperature. > > But my opinion is not important. Are there any rules regarding temperature > and the definition of a mineral?. There are countless minerals (or phases) > which are stable only above or below certain temperatures. Take for > instance the famous Acanthite/Argentite or alpha/beta quartz. With mankind > expanding where none has gone before, Titan, Mars etc we are bound to find > more such phases. On Titan we now have 'lava' consisting of water ice and > rivers of methane. If we call water a mineral on earth, methane should be > a mineral on Titan by the same definition. And if methane is a mineral on > Titan, we have our first gaseous mineral overhere. I'd better strart > buying gas proof MM boxes :-) > > cheers, > Maurice > > > Carolyn Reynard wrote: > >>For all of you in wonderful warm collecting areas, we have an abundance of >>the mineral ice as in snowflakes here in the Mid-Hudson Valley, New York. >> >>I was admiring the pile of layered snow against my window, hummm..layered >>ice flakes must be sedimentary as it packs down...and then metamorphic as >>it becomes solid ice... >> >>My friends think I am a bit spooky when I can see or think rocks.. in most >>situations. >> >>Now then...is there anyone that supports water as a mineral..it's liquid.. >>but so is mercury. >> >>Carolyn Reynard >>Mid-Hudson Valley Gem & Mineral Society >> >>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >>--- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From morningstar at att.net Sun Jan 23 08:34:02 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Sun Jan 23 08:31:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral In-Reply-To: <1eb901c50168$0f900350$6402a8c0@remains> References: <000a01c50165$534ae8b0$a67ba118@feldsparflash> <41F3CE50.7080001@xs4all.nl> <1eb901c50168$0f900350$6402a8c0@remains> Message-ID: <41F3D1FA.8080908@att.net> Michael Schmidt wrote: > a friend of mine, as an exercise in "let's see if we can do it", used a > refrigerated truck and facetted a piece of ice...several carats in the > end- an IF round brilliant!! EXCELLENT! Did he ever take a picture of it??? That would be supreme. I have always wanted to do something in answer to the neo-Freudian collectors who run around spouting "I have more species than you have." It would be cool to build a little refrigerated display cabinet with a well-formed hexagonal crystal of ice in it, and show it to them and say "yeah but do you have a specimen of THIS?" (Yes I'm aware everyone has ice in their freezer, but it just isn't the same, and besides this is just a joke). Don From jabac at hal-pc.org Sun Jan 23 08:59:20 2005 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Sun Jan 23 08:56:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral In-Reply-To: <41F3CE50.7080001@xs4all.nl> References: <000a01c50165$534ae8b0$a67ba118@feldsparflash> <41F3CE50.7080001@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <1106499560.5250.1.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2005-01-23 at 17:18 +0100, Maurice de Graaf wrote: > Hi Carolyn, > > I'm still waiting for a nice snow shower at temperatures below -5C. They > are rare here in Holland, since most snow falls around freezing point. > The idea is to set up my microscope outside, catsc a few falling flakes > on a piece of black paper and then try to photograph the crystals. > > As for water as a liquid mineral. sure why not? I nevert understood why > mercury is regarded a mineral in it's liquid state while water is only a > mineral in it's solid state, while both minerals are liquid at room > temperature. > > But my opinion is not important. Are there any rules regarding > temperature and the definition of a mineral?. There are countless > minerals (or phases) which are stable only above or below certain > temperatures. Take for instance the famous Acanthite/Argentite or > alpha/beta quartz. With mankind expanding where none has gone before, > Titan, Mars etc we are bound to find more such phases. On Titan we now > have 'lava' consisting of water ice and rivers of methane. If we call > water a mineral on earth, methane should be a mineral on Titan by the > same definition. And if methane is a mineral on Titan, we have our first > gaseous mineral overhere. I'd better strart buying gas proof MM boxes :-) > > cheers, > Maurice Ah, but Methane is organic...isn't it?? john From morningstar at att.net Sun Jan 23 09:08:39 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Sun Jan 23 09:05:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral In-Reply-To: <000a01c50165$534ae8b0$a67ba118@feldsparflash> References: <000a01c50165$534ae8b0$a67ba118@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <41F3DA17.6010100@att.net> Carolyn Reynard wrote: > I was admiring the pile of layered snow against my window, hummm..layered ice flakes must be sedimentary as it packs down...and then metamorphic as it becomes solid ice... That's an excellent observation--and I have seen at least one textbook that uses the analogy of snowflakes, packed snow, and ice as an example of primary mineralization, sedimentation, and metamorphism. > Now then...is there anyone that supports water as a mineral..it's liquid.. > but so is mercury. Once more into the breach ... I don't get a good reaction when I quote doctrine, but here we go ... first, native elements are a special class of mineral species because, well, they are the elements! Whether liquid, solid, or gas at standard conditions, the elements must be included by their very nature. (Actually, I don't see neon or krypton on the species list, so maybe elemental gases are not included... I don't see the gases in the Handbook of Mineralogy either, and I don't have Dana... anyone have an authoritative comment on that?) All that being the case, Mercury is a liquid at room temperature, but a crystalline solid at colder temperatures: http://www.webelements.com/webelements/scholar/elements/mercury/structure.html Humans by nature follow the "anthropic principle," which when put into simple terms means that we see things in terms of how we exist, or, more colloquially, "we see the universe through human-colored glasses." In other words, mercury and water are liquids at standard temperatures, but that just means they freeze at lower temperatures than those we consider "average." It may be that some day, silicon-based aliens from an exremely hot world will visit us, and remark, "hey, look, they've got frozen blood in display cabinets! They call it 'quartz'! Look how beautiful it is! However we'd better not take off our environmental hot-suits or else all the liquid silicon dioxide in us will crystallize." So then... I have heard people in the past remark that "water" is a valid mineral, but because it has no crystal structure, and they weren't able to cite a reference, I'd be inclined to say that it is the melted, liquid form of the mineral ice, and will be the mineral ice again when it freezes. Again, mercury is an exception to this logic because it is a native element and is recognized as a valid species. Does that make sense? Does that help? Don From SMKELL45 at aol.com Sun Jan 23 09:12:01 2005 From: SMKELL45 at aol.com (SMKELL45@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 23 09:12:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral Message-ID: <1e5.33f3486c.2f2534e1@aol.com> Whewellite's organic, and an accepted mineral too. smkell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sun Jan 23 09:15:19 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sun Jan 23 09:15:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral In-Reply-To: <1106499560.5250.1.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <200501231715.j0NHFL4N026678@outmx020.isp.belgacom.be> -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of john Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 5:59 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral Ah, but Methane is organic...isn't it?? john >>>>> It is not the fact that it is organic that it would not allow it to the mineral kingdom, but it would be excluded from mineralogy if it's ORIGIN was organic, which is not the case. Greetings, Rik Dillen From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sun Jan 23 09:16:45 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sun Jan 23 09:17:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral In-Reply-To: <1e5.33f3486c.2f2534e1@aol.com> Message-ID: <200501231716.j0NHGm7n020401@outmx010.isp.belgacom.be> It all depends indeed on whether the ORIGIN is organic, not the composition as such. Rik Dillen -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of SMKELL45@aol.com Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 6:12 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral Whewellite's organic, and an accepted mineral too. smkell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Gslrocks at aol.com Sun Jan 23 09:17:24 2005 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 23 09:17:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral Message-ID: <7b.3d3d0e89.2f253624@aol.com> anyone wanting samples of the free HOH mineral is welcome to come to NY and take it all back home with you! lol Greg Greg Lesinski GSLROCKS 4726 Porter Center Rd. Lewiston NY 14092 Fluorescent minerals, ultraviolet lamps and reference books authorized distributor and reseller for Way Too Cool lamps website www.gslrocks.com GSLROCKS@AOL.COM 716-754-9729 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From SMKELL45 at aol.com Sun Jan 23 09:20:20 2005 From: SMKELL45 at aol.com (SMKELL45@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 23 09:20:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral Message-ID: Have you any samples of HOH, in the solid state that fluoresce? smkell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Gslrocks at aol.com Sun Jan 23 09:22:52 2005 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 23 09:22:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral Message-ID: around here it probably would due to whatever trace dust blew onto it...lol --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From morningstar at att.net Sun Jan 23 09:38:47 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Sun Jan 23 09:35:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41F3E127.9090107@att.net> Gslrocks@aol.com wrote: > around here it probably would due to whatever trace dust blew onto it...lol > You could always freeze a fluorescein solution and light that up... hey let me go do that right now and see if it works. Don From Gslrocks at aol.com Sun Jan 23 09:37:23 2005 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 23 09:37:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral Message-ID: <2b.6b1baad0.2f253ad3@aol.com> some materials just blast through the snow... --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From hammerron at yahoo.com Sun Jan 23 09:38:19 2005 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Sun Jan 23 09:39:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral References: <000a01c50165$534ae8b0$a67ba118@feldsparflash> <41F3CE50.7080001@xs4all.nl><1eb901c50168$0f900350$6402a8c0@remains> <41F3D1FA.8080908@att.net> Message-ID: <000201c50172$71ddfbc0$14e2fc40@j9yhq01> I still have memories my dad has a hill on the northside of his yard...on that hill just about every year a huge number of slender ice crystals would form standing up all parallel to each other. They would form huge sheets. It kind of looks like satinspar (gypsum) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don H" To: "Michael Schmidt" ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 11:34 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral > Michael Schmidt wrote: > > a friend of mine, as an exercise in "let's see if we can do it", used a > > refrigerated truck and facetted a piece of ice...several carats in the > > end- an IF round brilliant!! > > EXCELLENT! Did he ever take a picture of it??? That would be supreme. > > I have always wanted to do something in answer to the neo-Freudian > collectors who run around spouting "I have more species than you have." > It would be cool to build a little refrigerated display cabinet with a > well-formed hexagonal crystal of ice in it, and show it to them and say > "yeah but do you have a specimen of THIS?" (Yes I'm aware everyone has > ice in their freezer, but it just isn't the same, and besides this is > just a joke). > > Don > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From morningstar at att.net Sun Jan 23 09:43:26 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Sun Jan 23 09:40:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral In-Reply-To: <2b.6b1baad0.2f253ad3@aol.com> References: <2b.6b1baad0.2f253ad3@aol.com> Message-ID: <41F3E23E.7030403@att.net> Gslrocks@aol.com wrote: > some materials just blast through the snow... OH . . . (apologies in advance to those freaked out by this prospect) . . . since anyone who uses fluorescence eventually learns that urine fluoresces, let me also freeze some "yellow snow" and see what that does... Demented Don From morningstar at att.net Sun Jan 23 09:49:33 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Sun Jan 23 09:46:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral In-Reply-To: <41F3CE50.7080001@xs4all.nl> References: <000a01c50165$534ae8b0$a67ba118@feldsparflash> <41F3CE50.7080001@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <41F3E3AD.1050801@att.net> Maurice de Graaf wrote: > Are there any rules regarding > temperature and the definition of a mineral?. There are countless > minerals (or phases) which are stable only above or below certain > temperatures. Take for instance the famous Acanthite/Argentite or > alpha/beta quartz. Yes, it's another IMA CNMMN thing. As I noted in my previous post, native elements and certain "grandfathered" notwithstanding, according to the current rules, a mineral species must be inorganic, formed by naturally occurring geological processes, and not "anthropogenic" (caused to come into existence by the action of humanity). There are always exceptions to these; some amorphous, anthropogenic, and organic minerals have been approved, but these exceptions are rare and also shouldn't be used to assume that there aren't any rules at all. Minerals like whewellite, jeromite, and diaoyudaoite are controversial, but their accreditation or discreditation rests on the considered decisions of a Commission with decades more training, knowledge, and experience than I have (or ever will have). Here is an excellent IMA-endorsed article on the subject: http://www.mineralogicalassociation.ca/doc/abstracts/ima98/ima98(04).pdf And some more information, hosted in your homeland: http://www.geo.vu.nl/users/ima-cnmmn/imareport.htm > With mankind expanding where none has gone before, > Titan, Mars etc we are bound to find more such phases. On Titan we now > have 'lava' consisting of water ice and rivers of methane. If we call > water a mineral on earth, methane should be a mineral on Titan by the > same definition. And if methane is a mineral on Titan, we have our first > gaseous mineral overhere. I'd better strart buying gas proof MM boxes :-) Methane is an organic compound that exists on earth, and if it were considered by the IMA CNMMN to be a mineral, it would be so already I think. However, here we are talking about minerals, the IMA, and all that good stuff. There is a parallel organization, the IUPAC (International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry), and they handle the organic side, so it's not as if there weren't anyone taking note of organic compounds and their names and structures. And if you think mineral names and protocols are bad, one class in organic chemistry will have you run screaming back to minerals, thanking whatever god or gods you believe in that the nomenclature and protocols are as easy as they are. Speaking of snow crystals, I have about 12 inches of that crap sitting on my car waiting to be cleaned off; that might not be much to some of you, but for us it is literally a state of emergency (so says the governor)... so let me get started "collecting" those little hexagonal treasures so I can go to work tomorrow. Don From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Jan 23 12:17:37 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Jan 23 12:11:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral References: Message-ID: <41F4050C.CF7@Tomaszewski.net> SMKELL45@aol.com wrote: > > Have you any samples of HOH, in the solid state that fluoresce? smkell > I've got a yellow varient out by the dog run that fluoresceses. But like the glowing cave walls recently discussed, I suspect it is an organic inpurity that is causing it. From hptdesigns at charter.net Sun Jan 23 12:35:29 2005 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Sun Jan 23 12:28:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: 'Dismal..etc' In-Reply-To: <20050123075048.3439.qmail@webmachine101.com> Message-ID: <3k77vr$h24rd2@mxip08a.cluster1.charter.net> There are dismal swamps and there are dismal swamps, but The Great Dismal Swamp is located here in North Carolina. George Washington surveyed it and at one time owned a part of it and Robert E. Lee's father tried to buy Washington's part from him. My grandfather at the age of 19 was the chief surveyor for the Richmond Cedar Works and surveyed the entire swamp. It is a true tragedy that such a natural area should have not been preserved. When running the lines in the swamp, he used to tell me stories about how they had to deal with numerous bear, water moccasins, mosquitoes, fox, wolves, along with 100 degree 100% humidity conditions. They would go in for 3 or 4 weeks and then got a weekend off in Norfolk. Ran an average of 20 miles a day of line (and that includes cutting it). Something like 16 men in a crew. He said he saw many virgin cedar trees over 15 feet in diameter and numerous large junipers. He told me every once in a while he would run across George's original line where he had marked it with slashes on trees--I think two slashes meant left and one slash meant right. So those trees were at least 200 years old. And since he had the original Washington survey, he was amazed how accurate it was. If you ever get a chance to go down the canal--it is a very nice trip. http://www.albemarle-nc.com/gates/greatdismal/ Tommy Armstrong tfa@brickengraver.com "Science is extraordinarily stupid about people as people and the consequence of this stupidity is going to do us all in if we don't do something about it" Walker Percy > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of magnet > Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 2:51 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] RE: 'Dismal..etc' > > There's a Dismal Swamp in north western Tasmania too. No > minerals, but it is well-known for it's fossils of extinct > marsupial megafauna. > > Regards > Steve > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From kahako at verizon.net Sun Jan 23 13:38:57 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Jan 23 13:38:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral Message-ID: <20050123213857.NMPH28362.out005.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> > From: Maurice de Graaf On Titan we now have 'lava' consisting of water ice and rivers of methane. I weighed in on this topic a couple of years ago and pointed out that on Europa (moon of Jupiter) there is tectonic activity where the plates are ice and the working fluid is water. On earth, of course, the working fluid is silicate magma, like what is pouring out of Kilauea here as we speak. Aloha, Bill From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sun Jan 23 17:00:12 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sun Jan 23 16:50:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral References: <000a01c50165$534ae8b0$a67ba118@feldsparflash><41F3CE50.7080001@xs4all.nl> <41F3E3AD.1050801@att.net> Message-ID: <003a01c501b0$0fbf6300$c7a6490c@pete> Hi gang, Wow, you stay away from the internet for part of a day, and here's everybody in the world, writing about "ICE"! Sounds like the discussion has covered most of the bases about "is ice a mineral". A substance that meets part but not quite all of the definition of a mineral is considered a "mineraloid"; like liquid mercury. However, liquid water itself, probably because it's so common and unique (doesn't get as much respect?) has never quite achieved status as a mineraloid. And yes, about "organic", as you've said, substances of organic ORIGIN are considered biogenic and not minerals. But something that formed "by inorganic processes", such as recrystallization in a rock or low-temperature mineral vein, is considered a mineral, even if its chemical contituents are what are normally considered organic (i.e., crystalline hydrocarbons or organo-metallic compounds). Thus, minerals such as karpatite, idrialite, abelsonite, are considred bona fide minerals. Ice is normally considered a mineral, because it is crystalline, of definite composition, and inorganically formed. However, one aspect of "ice" that makes it a bit questionable as a mineral--or questionable in some of its occurrences on earth--as another sometimes-part of the definition of a mineral, which would add that a mineral occurs "in the earth" or something to that effect ("geological origin"). Glacial ice is normally considred a part of the solid earth without any problem, but snowflakes, or ice formed on the surface of a body of water--that's something that forms (in the case of snowflakes) in the atmosphere, or the hydrosphere, so one could say that it's of meteorological origin, not of "geological" origin. Of course, this is really all a matter of semantics. And salt (halite) is always considred a mineral, though it precipates from water (the hydrosphere); so what's wrong with crystalline H2O that precipitates from the atmosphere? Now, going back to Titan, the methane, though an organic (carbon-hydrogen) compound, is certainly not "of organic origin" since there are no known life processes on Titan; the methane is a primary constituent of the material that condensed to form the planets and moons. But being liquid, not solid--well, I guess the liquid methane would be considered a mineraloid. A fun topic, worthy of endless debate and questionable resolution! Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don H" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 10:49 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral > Maurice de Graaf wrote: > > > > Are there any rules regarding > > temperature and the definition of a mineral?. There are countless > > minerals (or phases) which are stable only above or below certain > > temperatures. Take for instance the famous Acanthite/Argentite or > > alpha/beta quartz. > > Yes, it's another IMA CNMMN thing. As I noted in my previous post, > native elements and certain "grandfathered" notwithstanding, according > to the current rules, a mineral species must be inorganic, formed by > naturally occurring geological processes, and not "anthropogenic" > (caused to come into existence by the action of humanity). There are > always exceptions to these; some amorphous, anthropogenic, and organic > minerals have been approved, but these exceptions are rare and also > shouldn't be used to assume that there aren't any rules at all. > Minerals like whewellite, jeromite, and diaoyudaoite are controversial, > but their accreditation or discreditation rests on the considered > decisions of a Commission with decades more training, knowledge, and > experience than I have (or ever will have). > > Here is an excellent IMA-endorsed article on the subject: > > http://www.mineralogicalassociation.ca/doc/abstracts/ima98/ima98(04).pdf > From magnet at crocoite.com Sun Jan 23 18:06:10 2005 From: magnet at crocoite.com (magnet) Date: Sun Jan 23 18:06:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral Message-ID: <20050124020616.31709.qmail@webmachine101.com> It's a sunny warm day (25 degrees C) here in Tasmania. No sign of snow, ice or precipitation. Sorry guys, but I for one am pleased to not have the opportunity to collect this mineral! > Speaking of snow crystals, I have about 12 inches of that crap sitting > on my car waiting to be cleaned off; that might not be much to some of > you, but for us it is literally a state of emergency (so says the > governor)... so let me get started "collecting" those little hexagonal > treasures so I can go to work tomorrow. > > Don > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jan 24 01:38:41 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jan 24 01:38:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral In-Reply-To: <200501231715.j0NHFL4N026678@outmx020.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: Rik wrote >>>>> It is not the fact that it is organic that it would not allow it to >>>>>the mineral kingdom, but it would be excluded from mineralogy if it's ORIGIN >>>>>was organic, which is not the case. That would make ammonia of CO2- crystals in the atmosphere of say Jupiter or Neptune minerals? Or solid nitrogen and oxigen on Plutos surface? Axel _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jan 24 05:27:13 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jan 24 05:27:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral, some nice specimens + quarry In-Reply-To: <41F3E23E.7030403@att.net> Message-ID: Hi DDon I saw the word fluorescence and I thought I'd kick in ;-))) Now, I hardly think that urine-stained snow qualifies as a fluorescent mineral... It will just stink up your display. And now for something completely different but much the same: back in 1992 we had a rather severe thunderstorm over Niel (close to Antwerp). Rik Dillen (our MKA club-magazine editor) called me and asked if I could go take a look and that I should take my camera. He had been called by one of our members who said that some very nice mineral specimens had been falling from the sky and that he had collected them in his yard under the cover of a plastic bathtub and put them in the freezer. When you get a phone call like that, your first reflex is to inquire if the other party forgot to take his medicine. But when our brave MKA-member insisted that we should come take a look in his deep freezer... I drove over to Niel and soon it became painfully clear that "the minerals" that fell from the sky weren't exactly thumbnail sized. Broken windshields, dented cars, broken windows and roofs everywhere... Also someone got quite seriously injured. Here are some of the photo's I took: http://users.pandora.be/axel.emmerman/hagel8.jpg the phantom at the core is the first seed of a hailstone that went up and froze to -60? C very quickly. Quickly freezing water forms small crystals and is opaque. http://users.pandora.be/axel.emmerman/hagel23.jpg when cleaved, you can see the clear rings that were formed by the stone falling through the wet clouds before being picked up by the updraft and carried high towards the anvil of the storm cloud. There a rapid freezing would form another opaque ring. The stone in the photo has thus been carried up 5 times before it became to heavy and fell. http://users.pandora.be/axel.emmerman/hagel27.jpg the "quarry in the sky" as photographed by Rik Dillen when flying to ... was is Washington, Rik? The airplane was at about 30.000 to 36.000 feet when the photo was taken. http://users.pandora.be/axel.emmerman/schema%20donderbui.jpg schematic explaining the "geological" circumstances in which the mineral ice, variety hailstone, is formed ;-))) blue arrows = cold, falling air "thermiek" = thermal rising of a nair column the red plane = isothermal plane of 0? C The rest should be clear, even to those few who don't understand our Belgian lingo yet. Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Don H Verzonden: zondag 23 januari 2005 18:43 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral Gslrocks@aol.com wrote: > some materials just blast through the snow... OH . . . (apologies in advance to those freaked out by this prospect) . . . since anyone who uses fluorescence eventually learns that urine fluoresces, let me also freeze some "yellow snow" and see what that does... Demented Don _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Mon Jan 24 06:07:26 2005 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 24 06:07:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral, some nice specimens + quarry Message-ID: <35DAE851.71611A67.02180873@aol.com> Loved the photos, especially of the thunder head. When I lived in the Midwest and we saw a cloud like that we not only worried about the hail, but the possible 'tail' as well. Gene Hartstein Newark, Delaware In a message dated 1/24/2005 8:27:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, "Axel Emmermann" writes: >Hi DDon > >I saw the word fluorescence and I thought I'd kick in ;-))) > >Now, I hardly think that urine-stained snow qualifies as a fluorescent >mineral... It will just stink up your display. And now for something >completely different but much the same: ?back in 1992 we had a rather severe >thunderstorm over Niel (close to Antwerp). >Rik Dillen (our MKA club-magazine editor) called me and asked if I could go >take a look and that I should take my camera. He had been called by one of >our members who said that some very nice mineral specimens had been falling >from the sky and that he had collected them in his yard under the cover of a >plastic bathtub and put them in the freezer. > >When you get a phone call like that, your first reflex is to inquire if the >other party forgot to take his medicine. But when our brave MKA-member >insisted that we should come take a look in his deep freezer... >I drove over to Niel and soon it became painfully clear that "the minerals" >that fell from the sky weren't exactly thumbnail sized. Broken windshields, >dented cars, broken windows and roofs everywhere... Also someone got quite >seriously injured. > >Here are some of the photo's I took: > >http://users.pandora.be/axel.emmerman/hagel8.jpg the phantom at the core is >the first seed of a hailstone that went up and froze to -60? C very quickly. >Quickly freezing water forms small crystals and is opaque. >http://users.pandora.be/axel.emmerman/hagel23.jpg when cleaved, you can see >the clear rings that were formed by the stone falling through the wet clouds >before being picked up by the updraft and carried high towards the anvil of >the storm cloud. There a rapid freezing would form another opaque ring. The >stone in the photo has thus been carried up 5 times before it became to >heavy and fell. >http://users.pandora.be/axel.emmerman/hagel27.jpg the "quarry in the sky" as >photographed by Rik Dillen when flying to >... was is Washington, Rik? The airplane was at about 30.000 to 36.000 feet >when the photo was taken. >http://users.pandora.be/axel.emmerman/schema%20donderbui.jpg schematic >explaining the "geological" circumstances in which the mineral ice, variety >hailstone, is formed ;-))) >blue arrows = cold, falling air >"thermiek" = thermal rising of a nair column >the red plane = isothermal plane of 0? C >The rest should be clear, even to those few who don't understand our Belgian >lingo yet. > >Cheers > >Axel > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Don H >Verzonden: zondag 23 januari 2005 18:43 >Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral > > >Gslrocks@aol.com wrote: > >> some materials just blast through the snow... > > >OH . . . (apologies in advance to those freaked out by this prospect) >. . . since anyone who uses fluorescence eventually learns that urine >fluoresces, let me also freeze some "yellow snow" and see what that does... > >Demented Don > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From arf at mc.net Sun Jan 23 06:06:13 2005 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Mon Jan 24 06:58:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amazonite Message-ID: <003a01c5015b$f564e8d0$4b5c70d1@S0033035959> I received a piece of Amazonite (thanks Dave) to compare with what I have and the physical differences are obvious. Most importantly, cleavage planes and it can be scratched with my stuff which will here after be called "Garden Stone". Visually, other than being a bit lighter in color than the GS, the cut faces look nearly identical. I cut and polished a cab from it and the similarity is striking. Without seeing the original pieces to match color, there is no way one could tell GS from AZ. Case closed... again. js PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.com From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jan 24 07:15:04 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jan 24 07:15:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral, some nice specimens + quarry In-Reply-To: <35DAE851.71611A67.02180873@aol.com> Message-ID: Gene Awesome, no? I think Rik took it on his way to one of the great US mineral shows that year.... Lookin' at that, you almost feel sorry for the "people down there" ;-))) Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens FOSSILNUT@aol.com Verzonden: maandag 24 januari 2005 15:07 Aan: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral, some nice specimens + quarry Loved the photos, especially of the thunder head. When I lived in the Midwest and we saw a cloud like that we not only worried about the hail, but the possible 'tail' as well. Gene Hartstein Newark, Delaware In a message dated 1/24/2005 8:27:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, "Axel Emmermann" writes: >Hi DDon > >I saw the word fluorescence and I thought I'd kick in ;-))) > >Now, I hardly think that urine-stained snow qualifies as a fluorescent >mineral... It will just stink up your display. And now for something >completely different but much the same: ?back in 1992 we had a rather severe >thunderstorm over Niel (close to Antwerp). >Rik Dillen (our MKA club-magazine editor) called me and asked if I could go >take a look and that I should take my camera. He had been called by one of >our members who said that some very nice mineral specimens had been falling >from the sky and that he had collected them in his yard under the cover of a >plastic bathtub and put them in the freezer. > >When you get a phone call like that, your first reflex is to inquire if the >other party forgot to take his medicine. But when our brave MKA-member >insisted that we should come take a look in his deep freezer... >I drove over to Niel and soon it became painfully clear that "the minerals" >that fell from the sky weren't exactly thumbnail sized. Broken windshields, >dented cars, broken windows and roofs everywhere... Also someone got quite >seriously injured. > >Here are some of the photo's I took: > >http://users.pandora.be/axel.emmerman/hagel8.jpg the phantom at the core is >the first seed of a hailstone that went up and froze to -60? C very quickly. >Quickly freezing water forms small crystals and is opaque. >http://users.pandora.be/axel.emmerman/hagel23.jpg when cleaved, you can see >the clear rings that were formed by the stone falling through the wet clouds >before being picked up by the updraft and carried high towards the anvil of >the storm cloud. There a rapid freezing would form another opaque ring. The >stone in the photo has thus been carried up 5 times before it became to >heavy and fell. >http://users.pandora.be/axel.emmerman/hagel27.jpg the "quarry in the sky" as >photographed by Rik Dillen when flying to >... was is Washington, Rik? The airplane was at about 30.000 to 36.000 feet >when the photo was taken. >http://users.pandora.be/axel.emmerman/schema%20donderbui.jpg schematic >explaining the "geological" circumstances in which the mineral ice, variety >hailstone, is formed ;-))) >blue arrows = cold, falling air >"thermiek" = thermal rising of a nair column >the red plane = isothermal plane of 0? C >The rest should be clear, even to those few who don't understand our Belgian >lingo yet. > >Cheers > >Axel > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Don H >Verzonden: zondag 23 januari 2005 18:43 >Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral > > >Gslrocks@aol.com wrote: > >> some materials just blast through the snow... > > >OH . . . (apologies in advance to those freaked out by this prospect) >. . . since anyone who uses fluorescence eventually learns that urine >fluoresces, let me also freeze some "yellow snow" and see what that does... > >Demented Don > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From SMKELL45 at aol.com Mon Jan 24 07:33:17 2005 From: SMKELL45 at aol.com (SMKELL45@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 24 07:33:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral Message-ID: <76331DEA.1D99D5C3.0079B709@aol.com> Speaking of organic origin- how does much of the limestone and dolomite deposits fit into the picture? They are , in a large part, the remains of life. Then there's chert also. The fringes of classification begins to get tricky. smkell From morningstar at att.net Mon Jan 24 08:04:34 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Mon Jan 24 08:04:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral Message-ID: <012420051604.22225.41F51C92000004A6000056D121602806519D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: SMKELL45@aol.com > Speaking of organic origin- how does much of the limestone and dolomite > deposits fit into the picture? They are , in a large part, the remains of > life. Then there's chert also. The fringes of classification begins to get > tricky. smkell Well, some of these are rock types; limestone (as far as I can tell) is not a mineral (though lime is) and chert is definitely a rock. These are composed of minerals or mineraloids, and may or may not have a definite crystal structure. So we don't worry about IMA CNMMN mineral nomenclature when talking about these rocks! Back to your main question, minerals like calcite and dolomite may have organic ingredients and by-products, but are formed by geological processes. For example, an occurence of calcite or aragonite in seashells at the bottom of the ocean is definitely an organic creation. In the case where we might find aragonite in a seashell, a mineralogist would call it "calcium carbonate with structure (??? some structure symbols), the organic analogue of aragonite." A biologist, I think, wouldn't care. Same with kidney stones; if a tiny sharp crystal of calcium oxalate comes whizzing out of my urinary tract, that's an organic; if we find crystals of whewellite in the drainage zone of a calcite body with lots of plants growing near it, we call it a mineral--though this is the perfect example of a controversial mineral that some would say is organic because of the oxalic acid component. As I've stated, that's a debate best left to learned men with decades more experience than mine, and while most of us can entertain both sides of the argument, I wouldn't be comfortable taking a stand on one side or the other at this point. http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/organics/whewelli/whewelli.htm Remember, in the end, this discussion has focused on the definition and distinct nomenclature of mineral species as defined by the IMA CNMMN. This is an artificial construct that we place upon ourselves in order to communicate clearly within an admittedly narrow branch of science. Now here's a good one: in the process of taking college chemistry classes, you are taught the nomenclature of chemistry. For example, names like calcium carbonate, calcium fluoride, and barium sulfate appear fairly early in the curriculum. When I see those I automatically think "calcite... fluorite... barite..." However, on a test, there will be true/false questions about proper chemical names; they give you joyful terms such as "oil of vitriol," "alum salt", and "saltpeter," along with calcite and barite, etc. I must fight the urge to mark "true" for the mineral names; but they are false, since to an IUPAC-trained chemist who knows nothing about minerals, those names are useless! Don From nmartin at bbn.com Mon Jan 24 08:39:49 2005 From: nmartin at bbn.com (Nathan C. Martin II) Date: Mon Jan 24 08:39:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: "Topaz fluorescence etc" In-Reply-To: <000601c4fcfa$7a19c7f0$b8ccf342@Nancy> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20050124112205.01eead50@po2.bbn.com> Since the New England blizzard made field collecting impossible this weekend, I checked the fluorescence on several topaz specimens in my collection. The only one that fluoresced was a topaz on schorl from the Northern territories in Pakistan. It indeed exhibited a light yellow fluorescence under shortwave UV light. It was not terribly bright fluorescence but was definitely there. Nate Martin Lexington, MA At 08:10 PM 1/17/2005, you wrote: >According to the esteemed author "Manual Robbins" in his excellently >colorful book "Fluorescence: gems and minerals under ultraviolet light" >topaz is reported to repond to sw/lw uv. He suggests that "The most >charecteristic fluorescence of topaz is yellow." There are, accordingly, >other reported uv colors including bright lemon yellow, yellow-orange, >blue-white, white, and red. > >None of my Maine topaz, however, responds to sw or lw. > >Dave > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Dr. Nathan C. Martin Principal Scientist BBN Technologies Room 1/117, 50 Moulton Street, Cambridge, MA 02138 Phone: (617)873-3495 Office FAX: (617)873-2918 From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Mon Jan 24 08:50:50 2005 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Mon Jan 24 08:43:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] More Ice! Message-ID: <004c01c50234$dc37b340$a67ba118@feldsparflash> To all you rockhounds, I have enjoyed the thread on "Ice as a Mineral". As a retired elementary art teacher and nutty rockhound ,the use of layered snow to teach mineralization, sedimentary deposition, strata and finally solidification "lithification" is an useful analogy to those of us living in snowy areas. We have just enough in dark airborne particles to make the strata a noticeable pattern.Our junior rockhounds and the rockhound special interest group I had as an early before school activity would certainly be into collecting snow. As an artist it is easy to see the beauty of this miracle of our planet. I continue to watch the snow piled against the screen of my window as the wind drifts it into a snow dune. Carolyn Reynard --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Jg81638 at aol.com Mon Jan 24 09:35:36 2005 From: Jg81638 at aol.com (Jg81638@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 24 09:35:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re Ice as a Mineral Message-ID: <1b9.b9a709f.2f268be8@aol.com> Like many others I too have enjoyed this thread. As a side thought I guess that we need to add Science to the list in the Oscar Wilde quip that runs (if my memory serves me) as follows: In Morals as in Art, it all depends upon where you draw the line. Jim Groves, VP Northern Berkshire Mineral Club (another one with rocks in his head!) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny at lrream.com Sun Jan 23 16:49:48 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Mon Jan 24 09:48:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page Message-ID: Hi all, John Cornish recently posted his writings on the fluorescence of the heulandite and minerals of the Rat's Nest claim and the fluorescence of the quartz pseudomorphs of apophyllite and other minerals of the Summer Storm claim. This got me to thinking that I should write up a description of that deposit and its discovery to accompany the write up on the discovery of the Rat's Nest heulandite. I've completed that project, three pages. Go to www.LRReam.com and click on the Summer Storm link. Regards, Lanny From herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be Mon Jan 24 10:01:24 2005 From: herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be (herwig pelckmans) Date: Mon Jan 24 10:05:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: "Topaz fluorescence etc" => new find !! References: <5.2.0.9.2.20050124112205.01eead50@po2.bbn.com> Message-ID: <005c01c5023e$b85f2c00$2cd876d5@telenet.be> Hi all, Well, guess it is about time to tell you all about a new find that will be available at Tucson ... and YOU, the members of the rockhounds list, are the first ones to get to know this! My partner and I will have yellow fluorescent topaz crystals from California for sale ... So far the Tucson Show has not started yet, but as soon as it has, I will let you all know the exact locality and paragenesis... as well as the room where you will be able to admire & acquire these goodies ... More details later ... Cheers, Herwig Herwig Pelckmans Worldwide Mineral Collector Cardijnstraat 12 B-3530 Helchteren Belgium Europe http://www.xlizd.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nathan C. Martin II" To: Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] RE: "Topaz fluorescence etc" > Since the New England blizzard made field collecting impossible this > weekend, I checked the fluorescence on several topaz specimens in my > collection. The only one that fluoresced was a topaz on schorl from the > Northern territories in Pakistan. It indeed exhibited a light yellow > fluorescence under shortwave UV light. It was not terribly bright > fluorescence but was definitely there. > > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > > At 08:10 PM 1/17/2005, you wrote: > > >According to the esteemed author "Manual Robbins" in his excellently > >colorful book "Fluorescence: gems and minerals under ultraviolet light" > >topaz is reported to repond to sw/lw uv. He suggests that "The most > >charecteristic fluorescence of topaz is yellow." There are, accordingly, > >other reported uv colors including bright lemon yellow, yellow-orange, > >blue-white, white, and red. > > > >None of my Maine topaz, however, responds to sw or lw. > > > >Dave > > > Dr. Nathan C. Martin > Principal Scientist > BBN Technologies > Room 1/117, 50 Moulton Street, Cambridge, MA 02138 > Phone: (617)873-3495 Office FAX: (617)873-2918 From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jan 24 11:11:28 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jan 24 11:11:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page Message-ID: Hi lanny, maybe this is nitpicking but does "Quartz pseudomorph of apophyllite" mean quartz AFTER apophyllite or apophyllite AFTER quartz? From the looks of it I'd say the first ... BTW: cool site (despite the lack of shade on the hill ;-))) Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Lanny Verzonden: maandag 24 januari 2005 1:50 Aan: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com"@telenet-ops.be :A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page Hi all, John Cornish recently posted his writings on the fluorescence of the heulandite and minerals of the Rat's Nest claim and the fluorescence of the quartz pseudomorphs of apophyllite and other minerals of the Summer Storm claim. This got me to thinking that I should write up a description of that deposit and its discovery to accompany the write up on the discovery of the Rat's Nest heulandite. I've completed that project, three pages. Go to www.LRReam.com and click on the Summer Storm link. Regards, Lanny _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jan 24 11:58:39 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jan 24 11:58:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi lanny, maybe this is nitpicking but does "Quartz pseudomorph of apophyllite" mean quartz AFTER apophyllite or apophyllite AFTER quartz? -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Lanny Verzonden: maandag 24 januari 2005 1:50 Aan: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com"@telenet-ops.be :A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page Hi all, John Cornish recently posted his writings on the fluorescence of the heulandite and minerals of the Rat's Nest claim and the fluorescence of the quartz pseudomorphs of apophyllite and other minerals of the Summer Storm claim. This got me to thinking that I should write up a description of that deposit and its discovery to accompany the write up on the discovery of the Rat's Nest heulandite. I've completed that project, three pages. Go to www.LRReam.com and click on the Summer Storm link. Regards, Lanny _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be Mon Jan 24 12:47:56 2005 From: herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be (herwig pelckmans) Date: Mon Jan 24 12:51:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fred Rodes - e-mail ? References: <5.2.0.9.2.20050124112205.01eead50@po2.bbn.com> <005c01c5023e$b85f2c00$2cd876d5@telenet.be> Message-ID: <002201c50255$fc390c40$2cd876d5@telenet.be> Hi all, Earlier today I got a message from Fred Rodes. I have tried to reply several times, but I always get a "undelivered mail returend to sender"-message. Can Fred Rodes provide me with an e-mail address I can sent a message to? Thanks in advance! Herwig Pelckmans Belgium Europe From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Jan 24 15:10:57 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Jan 24 15:08:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice a Mineral References: <76331DEA.1D99D5C3.0079B709@aol.com> Message-ID: <41F57FE9.5FB@Tomaszewski.net> SMKELL45@aol.com wrote: > > Speaking of organic origin- how does much of the limestone and dolomite deposits fit into the picture? They are , in a large part, the remains of life. Then there's chert also. The fringes of classification begins to get tricky. smkell Limestone is a rock, not a mineral. From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Mon Jan 24 19:28:02 2005 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (sinico@nbnet.nb.ca) Date: Mon Jan 24 19:28:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tucson Debut - New Lapidary & Gem Publication Message-ID: <20050125032802.QPFV1597.simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@smtp8.sympatico.ca> Hi Everyone, I'd hoped to do this in a more comfortable posture, but here I am bent over a coin-op internet machine in tyhe Boston airport where I am stormstayed en route to Tucson. Stormstayed, indeed, for the second day! But that's another (horror)story. What I want to tell you about from my bent-over-the-airport-internet-machine postture is the new, online, lapidary, gem, and love-of-stone magazine "Lapidary World". As some of you may know, I've written for a number of lapidary and gem publications and for TV productions; after a number of false starts it came time, I thought, to bring out my own. You'll find it at www.virtualfundy.com And this is it. "LapidaryWorld" - rushed rushed rushed into gestation in time for Tucson, only the first four stories properly proofread and the "garnet" photographs not yet up. But although not negligeable, these are details. What is important is that this initial "LapidaryWorld" offers stories and pictures, stories and pictures: it is a living, breathing, magazine. It will get better; it will grow. This is for the long term. Already, in this first issue, it's full of gem and lapidary lore and information and adventure stories from Pailin Cambodia to Lightning Ridge Australia to Cape Breton in Nova Scotia. So welcome to Lapidary World. All the rest is explained in the first page or two. You'll enjoy it I'm sure. And if you are in Tucson - as I hope to be so be I can escape this crazy chaos of Boston - why not come chat and say hello at the Alpha Supply booth in the Electric Park show. Cheers Hans Durstling www.virtualfundy.com From geenet2 at mchsi.com Mon Jan 24 20:03:39 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Mon Jan 24 20:05:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] "Lapidary World" References: <20050125032802.QPFV1597.simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@smtp8.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <002d01c50292$da842020$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> I looked at the first issure of Lapidary World and enjoyed it immensely. As soon as you get PayPal up, I hope before April, I'll be subscribing. Count me in! Jeanette > love-of-stone magazine "Lapidary World". As some of you may know, > I've written for a number of lapidary and gem publications and for > TV productions; after a number of false starts it came time, I > thought, to bring out my own. > > You'll find it at www.virtualfundy.com From CrescentStoneINC at aol.com Tue Jan 25 05:38:19 2005 From: CrescentStoneINC at aol.com (CrescentStoneINC@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 25 05:38:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] "Lapidary World" Message-ID: Where can we find Lapidary World magazine, hoe do we contact and subscribe? Tried internet search , nothing. Sincerely: Crescent Stone --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny at lrream.com Tue Jan 25 13:39:36 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Tue Jan 25 13:37:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9BB8C648-6F19-11D9-8B32-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Axel, you are testing my sanity. They are quartz pseudomorphs after apophyllite. I'm not sure how I picked up the habit of using "of" instead of "after," but would have sworn that it was common usage. Out of curiosity, I did some checking, and in all the writings I found in the books and periodicals, I appear to be the only person using "of." Too bad no editor or friend ever corrected me all these umpteenth years! The pseudomorph location (and the heulandite location too) is really a rather nasty site. After the snow leaves, it is usually dry and hot, except for last year when we did that work. The area seems to go from winter to summer with only about a week of spring and a week of fall separating those two seasons. The first year we put the trackhoe on the Rat's Nest, it was fairly nice when I was there in May (2002), John Cornish arrived at the end of that week and in two days he had to leave because the 6 inches of new snow was too much to drive around the hills. He went back in two weeks, but left in about 4 days because he couldn't take the 100 degree weather. The drought conditions down there are getting bad. Last year, when we did the trackhoe work, we were walking around on a nasty wet clay, but just 4 inches down, to as deep as we dug, the ground was completely dry and dusty. That was the worst I'd seen in digging there since 1999, usually we have moist ground until mid to late June. Unless you want to hear more nasty comments, don't ask John about the wind, especially up on the Rat's Nest! Regards, Lanny On Jan 24, 2005, at 11:11 AM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Hi lanny, > > maybe this is nitpicking but does "Quartz pseudomorph of apophyllite" > mean > quartz AFTER apophyllite or apophyllite AFTER quartz? From the looks > of it > I'd say the first ... > > BTW: cool site (despite the lack of shade on the hill ;-))) > > Cheers > > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Lanny > Verzonden: maandag 24 januari 2005 1:50 > Aan: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com"@telenet-ops.be :A mailing list for rock > and gem collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page > > > Hi all, > > John Cornish recently posted his writings on the fluorescence of the > heulandite and minerals of the Rat's Nest claim and the fluorescence of > the quartz pseudomorphs of apophyllite and other minerals of the Summer > Storm claim. This got me to thinking that I should write up a > description of that deposit and its discovery to accompany the write up > on the discovery of the Rat's Nest heulandite. > > I've completed that project, three pages. Go to www.LRReam.com and > click on the Summer Storm link. > > Regards, > > Lanny > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Jan 25 16:04:53 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Jan 25 15:58:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Petrified Wood Made In A Lab Message-ID: <41F6DD39.16A8@Tomaszewski.net> The BBC is carrying a story that petrified wood has been made in a lab http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4206387.stm From geenet2 at mchsi.com Tue Jan 25 16:07:40 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Tue Jan 25 16:09:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] "Lapidary World" References: Message-ID: <001e01c5033b$213b10c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> It's at www.virtualfundy.com Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 7:38 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] "Lapidary World" > Where can we find Lapidary World magazine, hoe do we contact and subscribe? > Tried internet search , nothing. > > Sincerely: Crescent Stone > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From CrescentStoneINC at aol.com Tue Jan 25 16:24:11 2005 From: CrescentStoneINC at aol.com (CrescentStoneINC@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 25 16:24:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] "Lapidary World" Message-ID: From: Crescent Stone Company Thanks a lot Jeanette --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From CrescentStoneINC at aol.com Tue Jan 25 16:28:53 2005 From: CrescentStoneINC at aol.com (CrescentStoneINC@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 25 16:29:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Petrified Wood Made In A Lab Message-ID: From: Crescent Stone Company It is not nature, it is not the Earth's evolution. It is like fabricated diamonds it pales to yellow. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jemstone at amug.org Tue Jan 25 16:46:15 2005 From: jemstone at amug.org (John McLaughlin) Date: Tue Jan 25 16:46:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Petrified Wood Made In A Lab References: Message-ID: <001e01c50340$71a2c490$f25a2741@MCWIDOM> You did not look at the article and made a bad assumption about why the process is being developed. From the website: "The process could provide new ways of filtering pollutants, soaking up contaminants and separating chemicals." A very sound idea - using filters that can be grown. John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona > From: Crescent Stone Company > > > It is not nature, it is not the Earth's evolution. It is like fabricated > diamonds it pales to yellow. > > From CrescentStoneINC at aol.com Tue Jan 25 16:52:57 2005 From: CrescentStoneINC at aol.com (CrescentStoneINC@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 25 16:53:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Petrified Wood Made In A Lab Message-ID: <29.6b56a412.2f2843e9@aol.com> From: Crescent Stone My assumption was based on the info, seems that everyone is trying to find a new process for manufacturing stone. We deal with those that grind stone that is not worthy of consumption and produce a cheap marketable product. These are the things we deal with, our products are from the beginning of nature. I apologize for not reading the full story. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Tue Jan 25 19:23:34 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Jan 25 19:23:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Petrified Wood Made In A Lab In-Reply-To: <001e01c50340$71a2c490$f25a2741@MCWIDOM> References: <001e01c50340$71a2c490$f25a2741@MCWIDOM> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20050125192121.02e0c728@mail.spiritone.com> Battelle PNL (who developed the process) is located near and heavily involved in the Hanford nuclear reactor cleanup north of Pasco-Richland-Kennewick, WA. Dollars to donuts they are looking for a way to filter the contaminated groundwater/sludge tanks at the site. At 04:46 PM 1/25/2005, you wrote: >You did not look at the article and made a bad assumption about why the >process is being developed. From the website: "The process could provide >new ways of filtering pollutants, soaking up contaminants and separating >chemicals." A very sound idea - using filters that can be grown. > >John McLaughlin >Glendale, Arizona Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Tue Jan 25 19:38:58 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Tue Jan 25 19:38:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Troost database finished Message-ID: <007901c50358$9236d6c0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Over the past 11 years I have been entering records from the Troost catalog into a Filemaker Pro database I created. After entering 12,840 records, I am done!!! (Well... except for a little editing.) A small problem (not with the database, but with the catalog) is that Gerard Troost didn't always provide detail to the locality. He wasn't consistent with his spelling. As a result, the catalog has over 150 records where I have no idea where the locality is - i.e. Styermark, Wurzberg, Orowitz, etc. In addition, a few mineral names I have not been able to track down to a modern equivalent. Of course, the collection dates between 1810 and 1849 and a lot has changed both in geographic place-names and mineral names in the past 156 years. Now why do all this you might ask? The collection was messed up during the 1937 Ohio River flood. Thousands of specimens lost their ID numbers. It is my hope that with the collection information (crystal form, mineral associations, etc.) many of the specimens can be matched with their proper catalog number. I tried to do it as curator more than a decade ago using index cards. Talk about time consuming; now it will be much easier! The Troost collection probably has the most diverse early American minerals around today. Want to know what near-surface Franklin - Sterling Hill minerals looked like? Troostite (Manganoan-Willemite) was named after him for a reason! He has hundreds of specimens in his catalog, and many are still around in his collection, collected in the 18-teens and 20's. Pre-Elmwood fluorite? How about Smith Co., Tennessee specimens from the 1830's? How about 1826 minerals from Missouri's Viburnum trend? Earliest Magnet Cove minerals? Pre-1830 Maryland chromite deposits? His catalog is a gold mine of early American localities. And European minerals? Well, don't get me started. One can accrue a diverse locality listing from 12,840 mineral specimens! I'm going to give a copy of the database to the owners of the collection - the Louisville Science Center. It can be used as a tool to help preserve and conserve the collection which is the 2nd oldest mineral collection in the U.S. and about 12x larger than the oldest collection. Eventually, I hope to provide a copy to anyone who wants one. It won't happen immediately, but soon enough. Alan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Tue Jan 25 20:50:42 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Tue Jan 25 20:41:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Petrified Wood Made In A Lab References: <001e01c50340$71a2c490$f25a2741@MCWIDOM> <6.2.0.14.2.20050125192121.02e0c728@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <000b01c50362$9fdd83a0$27a5490c@pete> I just looked at the BBC petrified wood story, which is quite short. I see it says they use "a silica solution", which probably means some type of colloidal silica, related perhaps to sodium silicate (water glass). (Perhaps they didn't use sodium.) I think it's fairly easy to impregnate a lot of materials with silica, by soaking them in sodium silicate solution. An unusual wrinkle to what they did was then heating the silicified wood to 1400 C in a furnace, to form silicon carbide (= carborundum)--presumably for some purpose of theirs. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 8:23 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Petrified Wood Made In A Lab > Battelle PNL (who developed the process) is located near and heavily > involved in the Hanford nuclear reactor cleanup north of > Pasco-Richland-Kennewick, WA. Dollars to donuts they are looking for a way > to filter the contaminated groundwater/sludge tanks at the site. > > At 04:46 PM 1/25/2005, you wrote: > > >You did not look at the article and made a bad assumption about why the > >process is being developed. From the website: "The process could provide > >new ways of filtering pollutants, soaking up contaminants and separating > >chemicals." A very sound idea - using filters that can be grown. > > > >John McLaughlin > >Glendale, Arizona > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From morningstar at att.net Tue Jan 25 20:50:17 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Tue Jan 25 20:47:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Troost database finished In-Reply-To: <007901c50358$9236d6c0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> References: <007901c50358$9236d6c0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <41F72189.2080108@att.net> Alan Goldstein wrote: > Over the past 11 years I have been entering records from the Troost catalog into a Filemaker Pro database I created. After entering 12,840 records, I am done!!! (Well... except for a little editing.) Congratulations on finishing the type of task that often goes unsung when finished, but is among the most important we can accomplish in the collecting realm. I find this especially timely because I have some nice specimens of willemite var. troostite on the bathroom floor (don't ask) waiting to ship to Australia as a trade. As a museum volunteer, I appreciate what you have done for the history of this collection. Best regards, Don J. Halterman, Jr. From rgangue at yahoo.com Tue Jan 25 20:49:43 2005 From: rgangue at yahoo.com (Stan Perry) Date: Tue Jan 25 20:49:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Troost database finished In-Reply-To: <007901c50358$9236d6c0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <20050126044943.74543.qmail@web54203.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Alan, The collection sounds fabulous not just for the specimens but the History. If you are interested in ID help I bet I could talk Kevin Conroy into taking a trip to see you with me and we could lend whatever help we could. Between the two of us we have quite a bit of experience with minerals. It would be fun to see such historical specimens. I want to point out that your statement "How about 1826 > minerals from Missouri's Viburnum trend? " can't be. The Viburnum Trend wasn't discovered until the 20th century. He would have had minerals from the Old Lead Belt of Bonne Terre, St. Genvieve, Mine LaMotte and others. These were the first lead mines west of the Mississippi discovered by the French. Geologists found the Viburnum Trend by studying these deposits and their relationship to the Pre-Cambrian granite peaks of the St. Francis Mountains. The galena and other sulfides were deposited in reef-like structures on the flanks of the mountains. They hypothesized there should have been reefs on both sides of the ancient mountains when the shallow Ordovician seas were depositing the carbonates that would later host mineralization. Their suspicions were confirmed when sulfides were found while drilling on the other side of the mountains. These deposits are were all too far below the surface to be discovered in the early 1800's so Troost's specimen must come from the Older workings on the East side of the Mountains. By the way I have only seen samples from these mines at a show a handful of times in the 20 plus years I have been collecting. They are so rare most people don't know they were considered a separate district. Thanks for the story Alan. Cheers, Stan --- Alan Goldstein wrote: > Over the past 11 years I have been entering records > from the Troost catalog into a Filemaker Pro > database I created. After entering 12,840 records, I > am done!!! (Well... except for a little editing.) > > A small problem (not with the database, but with the > catalog) is that Gerard Troost didn't always provide > detail to the locality. He wasn't consistent with > his spelling. As a result, the catalog has over 150 > records where I have no idea where the locality is - > i.e. Styermark, Wurzberg, Orowitz, etc. In addition, > a few mineral names I have not been able to track > down to a modern equivalent. Of course, the > collection dates between 1810 and 1849 and a lot has > changed both in geographic place-names and mineral > names in the past 156 years. > > Now why do all this you might ask? The collection > was messed up during the 1937 Ohio River flood. > Thousands of specimens lost their ID numbers. It is > my hope that with the collection information > (crystal form, mineral associations, etc.) many of > the specimens can be matched with their proper > catalog number. I tried to do it as curator more > than a decade ago using index cards. Talk about time > consuming; now it will be much easier! > > The Troost collection probably has the most diverse > early American minerals around today. Want to know > what near-surface Franklin - Sterling Hill minerals > looked like? Troostite (Manganoan-Willemite) was > named after him for a reason! He has hundreds of > specimens in his catalog, and many are still around > in his collection, collected in the 18-teens and > 20's. Pre-Elmwood fluorite? How about Smith Co., > Tennessee specimens from the 1830's? How about 1826 > minerals from Missouri's Viburnum trend? Earliest > Magnet Cove minerals? Pre-1830 Maryland chromite > deposits? His catalog is a gold mine of early > American localities. And European minerals? Well, > don't get me started. One can accrue a diverse > locality listing from 12,840 mineral specimens! > > I'm going to give a copy of the database to the > owners of the collection - the Louisville Science > Center. It can be used as a tool to help preserve > and conserve the collection which is the 2nd oldest > mineral collection in the U.S. and about 12x larger > than the oldest collection. Eventually, I hope to > provide a copy to anyone who wants one. It won't > happen immediately, but soon enough. > > Alan > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/fox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > ===== Stan Perry Our Gangue Minerals www.emineralshow.com Ebay seller ID rgangue e-mail at rgangue@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com From morningstar at att.net Tue Jan 25 21:00:46 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Tue Jan 25 20:57:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Petrified Wood Made In A Lab In-Reply-To: <000b01c50362$9fdd83a0$27a5490c@pete> References: <001e01c50340$71a2c490$f25a2741@MCWIDOM> <6.2.0.14.2.20050125192121.02e0c728@mail.spiritone.com> <000b01c50362$9fdd83a0$27a5490c@pete> Message-ID: <41F723FE.1020903@att.net> Peter J. Modreski wrote: > I just looked at the BBC petrified wood story, which is quite short. ... An > unusual wrinkle to what they did was then heating the silicified wood to > 1400 C in a furnace, to form silicon carbide (= carborundum)--presumably for > some purpose of theirs. Indeed I was also puzzled by the dramatic title, until I read what they actually did. It's a great article and I'm glad it was posted, but that's not the petrified wood we know and love as collectors/geologists/mineralogists/lapidaries. I'm thinking they can seal a lot of impurities and dangerous contaminants into that mix. They didn't state the crystal structure of the SiC; there appear to be over 240 polytypes of SiC if I am reading the literature correctly, which I may not be, but if the structure is one of the more open ones, it could hold goodies like uranium and plutonium interstitially or as substituents in the structure. Maybe. In any case, this material would likely be more stable than glass. This is all conjecture on my part, spurred by what Tim said. Don From bobl at peaktopeak.com Tue Jan 25 22:25:24 2005 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Tue Jan 25 22:24:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: fluorite In-Reply-To: <505332941@web.de> Message-ID: Hi all, I got the following e-mail from a gentleman in Germany almost a month ago and I've been very forgetful in trying to get him some of the info he is looking for. He is looking for geological and historical info regarding a few mines and districts in the TN-IL-KY area of the U.S. If anyone can help him, please contact him directly. His e-mail address is below. Thanks and regards, Bob Loeffler -----Original Message----- From: Philip Bl?mner [mailto:slugslayer@web.de] Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 3:50 PM To: Bob Loeffler Subject: RE: fluorite Hi Bob! It would be wonderful if you could ask some people you know. I'd need informations about these mines: Elmwood Mine (TN), Annabel Lee Mine (IL), Minerva Mine (IL), and informations about the Illinois-Kentucky Fluorspar District, especially the Kentucky part. I'd be pleased if I could use some pictures (of course with an indication of owner and link). I hope I can ask you furthermore to US mines and fluorites. I don't need informations about which minerals can be found in the mines, more the geologic stuff and history if possible. Regards Philip From hptdesigns at charter.net Wed Jan 26 06:32:43 2005 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Wed Jan 26 06:25:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Troost database finished In-Reply-To: <007901c50358$9236d6c0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <3khdbt$gt9ae0@mxip05a.cluster1.charter.net> Congratulations--a wonderful resource for the museum. Don has really got me into the mineral database thing--in the writing of the application--not the inputting of the data. Once I get mine completed I might just have to hire someone to actually input the data. In fact if he would hurry up and get together with me to write the manual (hehe) I too could say "I am done!!! (Well... except for a > little editing.) " Broadband internet rules, Don. (insert smiley face) Is this wealth of data going to be available to the public at large (for a fee or not)? This kind of thing is what databases should be used for instead of whether or not you buy Charmin or Cottonelle at the local Food Lion. Tommy Armstrong tfa@brickengraver.com "Science is extraordinarily stupid about people as people and the consequence of this stupidity is going to do us all in if we don't do something about it" Walker Percy > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Alan Goldstein > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 10:39 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Troost database finished > > Over the past 11 years I have been entering records from the > Troost catalog into a Filemaker Pro database I created. After > entering 12,840 records, I am done!!! (Well... except for a > little editing.) > > A small problem (not with the database, but with the catalog) > is that Gerard Troost didn't always provide detail to the > locality. He wasn't consistent with his spelling. As a > result, the catalog has over 150 records where I have no idea > where the locality is - i.e. Styermark, Wurzberg, Orowitz, > etc. In addition, a few mineral names I have not been able to > track down to a modern equivalent. Of course, the collection > dates between 1810 and 1849 and a lot has changed both in > geographic place-names and mineral names in the past 156 years. > > Now why do all this you might ask? The collection was messed > up during the 1937 Ohio River flood. Thousands of specimens > lost their ID numbers. It is my hope that with the collection > information (crystal form, mineral associations, etc.) many > of the specimens can be matched with their proper catalog > number. I tried to do it as curator more than a decade ago > using index cards. Talk about time consuming; now it will be > much easier! > > The Troost collection probably has the most diverse early > American minerals around today. Want to know what > near-surface Franklin - Sterling Hill minerals looked like? > Troostite (Manganoan-Willemite) was named after him for a > reason! He has hundreds of specimens in his catalog, and many > are still around in his collection, collected in the 18-teens > and 20's. Pre-Elmwood fluorite? How about Smith Co., > Tennessee specimens from the 1830's? How about 1826 minerals > from Missouri's Viburnum trend? Earliest Magnet Cove > minerals? Pre-1830 Maryland chromite deposits? His catalog is > a gold mine of early American localities. And European > minerals? Well, don't get me started. One can accrue a > diverse locality listing from 12,840 mineral specimens! > > I'm going to give a copy of the database to the owners of the > collection - the Louisville Science Center. It can be used as > a tool to help preserve and conserve the collection which is > the 2nd oldest mineral collection in the U.S. and about 12x > larger than the oldest collection. Eventually, I hope to > provide a copy to anyone who wants one. It won't happen > immediately, but soon enough. > > Alan > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From hptdesigns at charter.net Wed Jan 26 06:42:02 2005 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Wed Jan 26 06:35:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Petrified Wood Made In A Lab In-Reply-To: <41F6DD39.16A8@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <3khj62$lp2s9c@mxip13a.cluster1.charter.net> I can really see a real use for this in the water and wastewater treatment process for today most micro-filtration systems use some sort of spun or woven fabric. If the pore size could be maintained and the product could be made from relatively inexpensive raw materials, it would enable the creation of a ceramic filter, which would be much more permanent and able to be reused almost indefinitely with periodic cleaning. Very kewl. You could create filters for faucets that would filter out the contaminants, and once a week or month, just soak in a cleaning and dininfecting bath. Tommy Armstrong N 35* 23' 52'' W 78* 49' 9'' > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Kreigh Tomaszewski > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 7:05 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: [Rockhounds] Petrified Wood Made In A Lab > > The BBC is carrying a story that petrified wood has been made in a lab > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4206387.stm > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From hptdesigns at charter.net Wed Jan 26 06:51:18 2005 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Wed Jan 26 06:44:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Petrified Wood Made In A Lab In-Reply-To: <3khj62$lp2s9c@mxip13a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <3k786n$m1kso7@mxip14a.cluster1.charter.net> I missed the post by Tim, and it makes perfect sense. Of course they would not want to backwash the filter, just dispose of it encased in a ceramic matrix. The US still does have people who can respond creatively to difficult problems. I hope it works out because I am a firm believer that nuclear power is the only viable alternative --if we can simply figure out how to create a wasteplant to process the waste and a safe place to store it. The rest of the process is incredibly environmentally friendly. And there is no shortage of uranium deposits out there. Not to start another thread on merits and demerits of NP. Tommy Armstrong tfa@brickengraver.com "Science is extraordinarily stupid about people as people and the consequence of this stupidity is going to do us all in if we don't do something about it" Walker Percy > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Tommy Armstrong > Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 9:42 AM > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Petrified Wood Made In A Lab > > I can really see a real use for this in the water and > wastewater treatment process for today most micro-filtration > systems use some sort of spun or woven fabric. If the pore > size could be maintained and the product could be made from > relatively inexpensive raw materials, it would enable the > creation of a ceramic filter, which would be much more > permanent and able to be reused almost indefinitely with > periodic cleaning. Very kewl. You could create filters for > faucets that would filter out the contaminants, and once a > week or month, just soak in a cleaning and dininfecting bath. > > Tommy Armstrong > N 35* 23' 52'' W 78* 49' 9'' > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kreigh > > Tomaszewski > > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 7:05 PM > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Petrified Wood Made In A Lab > > > > The BBC is carrying a story that petrified wood has been > made in a lab > > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4206387.stm > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From buff1 at ptd.net Wed Jan 26 08:23:34 2005 From: buff1 at ptd.net (Dennis Buffenmyer) Date: Wed Jan 26 08:23:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Petrified Wood Made In A Lab In-Reply-To: <3khj62$lp2s9c@mxip13a.cluster1.charter.net> References: <3khj62$lp2s9c@mxip13a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <41F7C406.4040508@ptd.net> I really dont want to start an off topic flame war over this... but what to do with all the saturated filters?? I thought the 'solution to pollution is dilution......' or something like that... just something to think about, not trying to impede alternate solutions... Tommy Armstrong wrote: >I can really see a real use for this in the water and wastewater treatment >process for today most micro-filtration systems use some sort of spun or >woven fabric. If the pore size could be maintained and the product could be >made from relatively inexpensive raw materials, it would enable the creation >of a ceramic filter, which would be much more permanent and able to be >reused almost indefinitely with periodic cleaning. Very kewl. You could >create filters for faucets that would filter out the contaminants, and once >a week or month, just soak in a cleaning and dininfecting bath. > >Tommy Armstrong >N 35* 23' 52'' W 78* 49' 9'' > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >>[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of >>Kreigh Tomaszewski >>Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 7:05 PM >>To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >>Subject: [Rockhounds] Petrified Wood Made In A Lab >> >>The BBC is carrying a story that petrified wood has been made in a lab >> >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4206387.stm >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Edsouz at aol.com Mon Jan 24 15:10:01 2005 From: Edsouz at aol.com (Edsouz@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 26 08:28:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel Emmermann for RecoveringPricelessMoonRocks Message-ID: <148.3cca5a25.2f26da49@aol.com> Dear MR. Axel Emmermann: I think I have found a piece of moon rock that was laying on the side of the road on San Pablo Ave. It looks like moon rock. If so I would like to find out for sure. Could you please help. Thank You E F Souza --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From SMKELL45 at aol.com Wed Jan 26 08:32:12 2005 From: SMKELL45 at aol.com (SMKELL45@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 26 08:32:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Petrified Wood Made In A Lab Message-ID: <9a.1ebd49c9.2f29200c@aol.com> Reminds me of the problem about controlling pore space in filters needed to separate uranium hexafluoride, for the Manhattan Project, in the '40s. they were successful and they had to separate material with almost no difference in mass. smkell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From DicksWi at northville.k12.mi.us Wed Jan 26 08:38:06 2005 From: DicksWi at northville.k12.mi.us (William Dicks) Date: Wed Jan 26 08:38:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hydnoceras (Sponge) Message-ID: An appeal to the list please. I am in search of some fossil samples for use in a school science lab. I have been unsuccessful using catalogs from resource companies. I need 2 dozen Hydnoceras (Sponge) of the not very expensive variety as the school budget is pretty non-existent. (I'll be paying personally). They should be and about half to 1 inch in size. If anyone has a donation or an inexpensive source, please contact me.....off list is fine. Thank you all Bill Dicks MESTA Board Member From JWachsmuth at gmx.de Wed Jan 26 09:56:54 2005 From: JWachsmuth at gmx.de (Juergen Wachsmuth) Date: Wed Jan 26 10:01:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Troost database finished References: <007901c50358$9236d6c0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <41F7D9E6.D54D829@gmx.de> Hello, "Styermark" could be Steiermark, a part of Austria. "Wurzberg" reminds me of W?rzburg, a town in Bavaria. Just an idea. Regards, J?rgen Wachsmuth Alan Goldstein schrieb: > Over the past 11 years I have been entering records from the Troost catalog into a Filemaker Pro database I created. After entering 12,840 records, I am done!!! (Well... except for a little editing.) > > A small problem (not with the database, but with the catalog) is that Gerard Troost didn't always provide detail to the locality. He wasn't consistent with his spelling. As a result, the catalog has over 150 records where I have no idea where the locality is - i.e. Styermark, Wurzberg, Orowitz, etc. In addition, a few mineral names I have not been able to track down to a modern equivalent. Of course, the collection dates between 1810 and 1849 and a lot has changed both in geographic place-names and mineral names in the past 156 years. > > Now why do all this you might ask? The collection was messed up during the 1937 Ohio River flood. Thousands of specimens lost their ID numbers. It is my hope that with the collection information (crystal form, mineral associations, etc.) many of the specimens can be matched with their proper catalog number. I tried to do it as curator more than a decade ago using index cards. Talk about time consuming; now it will be much easier! > > The Troost collection probably has the most diverse early American minerals around today. Want to know what near-surface Franklin - Sterling Hill minerals looked like? Troostite (Manganoan-Willemite) was named after him for a reason! He has hundreds of specimens in his catalog, and many are still around in his collection, collected in the 18-teens and 20's. Pre-Elmwood fluorite? How about Smith Co., Tennessee specimens from the 1830's? How about 1826 minerals from Missouri's Viburnum trend? Earliest Magnet Cove minerals? Pre-1830 Maryland chromite deposits? His catalog is a gold mine of early American localities. And European minerals? Well, don't get me started. One can accrue a diverse locality listing from 12,840 mineral specimens! > > I'm going to give a copy of the database to the owners of the collection - the Louisville Science Center. It can be used as a tool to help preserve and conserve the collection which is the 2nd oldest mineral collection in the U.S. and about 12x larger than the oldest collection. Eventually, I hope to provide a copy to anyone who wants one. It won't happen immediately, but soon enough. > > Alan > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Wed Jan 26 10:21:42 2005 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 26 10:21:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Petrified Wood Made In A Lab Message-ID: <028593AD.2CD0B893.02180873@aol.com> If you soak wood in acid for 2 days and then in a silicate for another 2, the acid will react with the silicate to form silica, or more likely silica gel, since water is present. silica gel is a great medium for adsorbing and holding onto ions of all sorts, including radioactive ones. Unfortunately silica gels formed in this manner can dry out and become brittle, friable and dusty. Heating it to drive off water, fuse the silica and react it with carbon from the pyrolysis of the cellulose, will form silicon carbide, and presumably the ions could still be there. Furthermore you might be able to dope the surfaces of the structure with active ions turning it into a catalyst... interesting. From hkrocke at sprint.ca Wed Jan 26 10:58:25 2005 From: hkrocke at sprint.ca (HilmarKrocke) Date: Wed Jan 26 11:02:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Troost database finished In-Reply-To: <007901c50358$9236d6c0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: Over the past 11 years I have been entering records from the Troost catalog into a Filemaker Pro database I created. After entering 12,840 records, I am done!!! (Well... except for a little editing.) A small problem (not with the database, but with the catalog) is that Gerard Troost didn't always provide detail to the locality. He wasn't consistent with his spelling. As a result, the catalog has over 150 records where I have no idea where the locality is - i.e. Styermark, Wurzberg, Orowitz, etc. _____________________________________________________ Steiermark = a Province of "?sterreich" ( Austria as you english speaking people have to call it ???). see infopage at: //www.steiermark.at/ By the way, the picture on the bottom left is the "Erzberg". Type locality for Corralloid Aragonite (also known as Eisenbl?te or Flos ferri) Wurzberg = Town in "Deutchland" ( Germany as you english speaking people have to call it ???). Land Hessen. see map at: www.fallingrain.com/world/GM/5/Wurzberg.html Orowitz = sorry, no idea Hope this helps a little Hilmar --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 26 11:46:34 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Wed Jan 26 11:46:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Troost database finished In-Reply-To: <007901c50358$9236d6c0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <20050126194635.23816.qmail@web51010.mail.yahoo.com> --- Alan Goldstein wrote: > As a result, the catalog has over 150 > records where I have no idea where the locality is - > i.e. Styermark, Wurzberg, Orowitz, etc. In addition, > a few mineral names I have not been able to track > down to a modern equivalent. Of course, the > collection dates between 1810 and 1849 and a lot has > changed both in geographic place-names and mineral > names in the past 156 years. > If you could post a list of the questionable localities where the list members could access it, quite a few might be identified- you got answers on 2 out of the 3 your mentioned already. Jim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From geenet2 at mchsi.com Wed Jan 26 16:02:19 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Wed Jan 26 16:03:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel Emmermann forRecoveringPricelessMoonRocks References: <148.3cca5a25.2f26da49@aol.com> Message-ID: <000801c50403$78524e00$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> My first response........ROTFL!! Yeah, right....are moon rocks falling from space or out of people's pockets? Are any "missing"? Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 5:10 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel Emmermann forRecoveringPricelessMoonRocks > > > Dear MR. Axel Emmermann: > > I think I have found a piece of moon rock that was laying on the side of the > road on San Pablo Ave. > > It looks like moon rock. > > If so I would like to find out for sure. > > Could you please help. > > Thank You > E F Souza > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From corundogs at charter.net Wed Jan 26 17:01:15 2005 From: corundogs at charter.net (CorunDogs) Date: Wed Jan 26 17:01:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel EmmermannforRecoveringPricelessMoonRocks References: <148.3cca5a25.2f26da49@aol.com> <000801c50403$78524e00$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <006701c5040b$b42f0960$d48ea842@dit03r92qai5fx> THAT WAS FUNNY, Jeanette :-) But I just have to add a little 'off-topic/on-topic' comment to this... My partner (and I, I guess...hehe!!) are working with another gentleman who is opening a private museum on July 4th this coming year near Houston, Texas. I have been invited to go with him to NASA to pick up a moon rock to display at the museum....HOW COOL IS THAT???? If anyone is in the area, you are invited to the opening of the museum...it is a 20th Century Technology Museum. I don't know much more information than what I just told you, but if anyone is interested, I can share more with you as it gets closer. All I know is that when Will asked if I wanted to go with him to pick it up....I couldn't believe it - and of course, I am JUMPING AT THE CHANCE :-) Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, Nebraska Dedicated to helping abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a person.....to a Rescue Dog, you are the World!!! www.nationwidebostonrescue.org www.corunduminium.com - Ask me about The Corundum Project ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanette Wimpee" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 6:02 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel EmmermannforRecoveringPricelessMoonRocks My first response........ROTFL!! Yeah, right....are moon rocks falling from space or out of people's pockets? Are any "missing"? Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 5:10 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel Emmermann forRecoveringPricelessMoonRocks > > > Dear MR. Axel Emmermann: > > I think I have found a piece of moon rock that was laying on the side of the > road on San Pablo Ave. > > It looks like moon rock. > > If so I would like to find out for sure. > > Could you please help. > > Thank You > E F Souza > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kqhayes at chartermi.net Wed Jan 26 17:23:54 2005 From: kqhayes at chartermi.net (kqhayes@chartermi.net) Date: Wed Jan 26 17:23:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] petrified wood technology as filter / off-topic Message-ID: <3khdfd$hthnfb@mxip04a.cluster1.charter.net> Tommy, I hate to dampen your enthusiasm but regenerating or cleaning a filter ain't that simple. Now creating a silicified network on an inexpensive substrate might be interesting, but there are a lot of economic issues. Filtration/chemical engineering is what I do for a living so, I would be happy to discuss off list if people have questions. Regards, Keith Hayes > > From: "Tommy Armstrong" > Date: 2005/01/26 Wed PM 02:42:02 GMT > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Petrified Wood Made In A Lab > > I can really see a real use for this in the water and wastewater treatment > process for today most micro-filtration systems use some sort of spun or > woven fabric. If the pore size could be maintained and the product could be > made from relatively inexpensive raw materials, it would enable the creation > of a ceramic filter, which would be much more permanent and able to be > reused almost indefinitely with periodic cleaning. Very kewl. You could > create filters for faucets that would filter out the contaminants, and once > a week or month, just soak in a cleaning and dininfecting bath. > > Tommy Armstrong > N 35* 23' 52'' W 78* 49' 9'' > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > > Kreigh Tomaszewski > > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 7:05 PM > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Petrified Wood Made In A Lab > > > > The BBC is carrying a story that petrified wood has been made in a lab > > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4206387.stm > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From kqhayes at chartermi.net Wed Jan 26 17:36:08 2005 From: kqhayes at chartermi.net (kqhayes@chartermi.net) Date: Wed Jan 26 17:36:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Waste or Product Recovery for mines Message-ID: <3khdin$h062a6@mxip02a.cluster1.charter.net> The on-topic version of this discussion might be how mineral products are recovered or how mineral wastes are treated. I'm curious, how many people know how something like copper ore gets refined after mining? Or maybe I should say, how many people know some of the ways that the copper is extracted and refined? With any of the mineral materials, once it is mined a serious of processing steps must be used to turn it into something that can be used. Initially, the material might be crushed (dang, there go all those nice crystals), then flotation might be used to separate some part from the other, then... it goes on. Each mine or processing area will need to develop an economic solution that takes into consideration the mineral concentration, the associated material, and a host of other factors. Some deposits that might be economic to mine, might be too expensive to recover. If anyone here works at an operating mine, it might be interesting to tell everyone a little about! the processing steps. Regards, Keith > > From: Dennis Buffenmyer > Date: 2005/01/26 Wed PM 04:23:34 GMT > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Petrified Wood Made In A Lab > > I really dont want to start an off topic flame war over this... but what > to do with all the saturated filters?? > I thought the 'solution to pollution is dilution......' or something > like that... > just something to think about, not trying to impede alternate solutions... > > Tommy Armstrong wrote: > > >I can really see a real use for this in the water and wastewater treatment > >process for today most micro-filtration systems use some sort of spun or > >woven fabric. If the pore size could be maintained and the product could be > >made from relatively inexpensive raw materials, it would enable the creation > >of a ceramic filter, which would be much more permanent and able to be > >reused almost indefinitely with periodic cleaning. Very kewl. You could > >create filters for faucets that would filter out the contaminants, and once > >a week or month, just soak in a cleaning and dininfecting bath. > > > >Tommy Armstrong > >N 35* 23' 52'' W 78* 49' 9'' > > > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > >>[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > >>Kreigh Tomaszewski > >>Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 7:05 PM > >>To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > >>Subject: [Rockhounds] Petrified Wood Made In A Lab > >> > >>The BBC is carrying a story that petrified wood has been made in a lab > >> > >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4206387.stm > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >>Subscription Services: > >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> > >> > >> > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Wed Jan 26 17:51:49 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Wed Jan 26 17:51:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Troost database finished References: <20050126044943.74543.qmail@web54203.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001401c50412$c4484440$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Stan, I sit corrected. (I'm in a chair, otherwise I'd stand corrected.) Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stan Perry" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 11:49 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Troost database finished >> minerals from Missouri's Viburnum trend? " can't be. > The Viburnum Trend wasn't discovered until the 20th > century. He would have had minerals from the Old Lead > Belt of Bonne Terre, St. Genvieve, Mine LaMotte and > others. These were the first lead mines west of the > Mississippi discovered by the French. From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jan 26 18:15:53 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jan 26 18:15:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel EmmermannforRecoveringPricelessMoonRocks References: <148.3cca5a25.2f26da49@aol.com> <000801c50403$78524e00$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> <006701c5040b$b42f0960$d48ea842@dit03r92qai5fx> Message-ID: <41F84EC1.491@Tomaszewski.net> You too can request a moonrock for research or public display http://www-curator.jsc.nasa.gov/curator/lunar/samreq/reqinfo.htm CorunDogs wrote: > > THAT WAS FUNNY, Jeanette :-) > > But I just have to add a little 'off-topic/on-topic' comment to this... > > My partner (and I, I guess...hehe!!) are working with another gentleman who is opening a private museum on July 4th this coming year > near Houston, Texas. > > I have been invited to go with him to NASA to pick up a moon rock to display at the museum....HOW COOL IS THAT???? > > If anyone is in the area, you are invited to the opening of the museum...it is a 20th Century Technology Museum. > > I don't know much more information than what I just told you, but if anyone is interested, I can share more with you as it gets > closer. All I know is that when Will asked if I wanted to go with him to pick it up....I couldn't believe it - and of course, I am > JUMPING AT THE CHANCE :-) > Brenda > > Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan > Assisting Boston Terriers > Kearney, Nebraska > Dedicated to helping abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers > To the World, you are just a person.....to a Rescue Dog, you are the World!!! www.nationwidebostonrescue.org www.corunduminium.com - > Ask me about The Corundum Project > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeanette Wimpee" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 6:02 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel EmmermannforRecoveringPricelessMoonRocks > > My first response........ROTFL!! > Yeah, right....are moon rocks falling from space or out of people's pockets? > Are any "missing"? > Jeanette > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 5:10 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel Emmermann > forRecoveringPricelessMoonRocks > > > > > > > Dear MR. Axel Emmermann: > > > > I think I have found a piece of moon rock that was laying on the side of > the > > road on San Pablo Ave. > > > > It looks like moon rock. > > > > If so I would like to find out for sure. > > > > Could you please help. > > > > Thank You > > E F Souza > > From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Wed Jan 26 18:36:45 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Wed Jan 26 18:36:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Troost database - "unknown" localities References: <007901c50358$9236d6c0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> <41F7D9E6.D54D829@gmx.de> Message-ID: <005e01c50419$0b55c0f0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Troost had a LOT of minerals from Germany. His collection represented every early 19th century (and late 18th century) location in Europe. With 12,840 specimens, one can cover a lot of territory. He purchased a collection from a Baron von Turk of Pottsdam in the 1830's, had an on-going arrangement with Henry Heuland and eventually purchased a fair number of specimens from A. Krantz in Berlin. He also got a collection from Karl von Leonard and one or two from Abbe Hauy. I will list the unknown localities with the mineral (or rock) and hopefully someone can determine whether his Wurzburg was in fact in Bavaria! Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juergen Wachsmuth" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Troost database finished > Hello, > > "Styermark" could be Steiermark, a part of Austria. "Wurzberg" reminds me > of W?rzburg, a town in Bavaria. Just an idea. > > Regards, > > J?rgen Wachsmuth > > > Alan Goldstein schrieb: > >> Over the past 11 years I have been entering records from the Troost >> catalog into a Filemaker Pro database I created. After entering 12,840 >> records, I am done!!! (Well... except for a little editing.) >> >> A small problem (not with the database, but with the catalog) is that >> Gerard Troost didn't always provide detail to the locality. He wasn't >> consistent with his spelling. As a result, the catalog has over 150 >> records where I have no idea where the locality is - i.e. Styermark, >> Wurzberg, Orowitz, etc. In addition, a few mineral names I have not been >> able to track down to a modern equivalent. Of course, the collection >> dates between 1810 and 1849 and a lot has changed both in geographic >> place-names and mineral names in the past 156 years. >> >> Now why do all this you might ask? The collection was messed up during >> the 1937 Ohio River flood. Thousands of specimens lost their ID numbers. >> It is my hope that with the collection information (crystal form, mineral >> associations, etc.) many of the specimens can be matched with their >> proper catalog number. I tried to do it as curator more than a decade ago >> using index cards. Talk about time consuming; now it will be much easier! >> >> The Troost collection probably has the most diverse early American >> minerals around today. Want to know what near-surface Franklin - Sterling >> Hill minerals looked like? Troostite (Manganoan-Willemite) was named >> after him for a reason! He has hundreds of specimens in his catalog, and >> many are still around in his collection, collected in the 18-teens and >> 20's. Pre-Elmwood fluorite? How about Smith Co., Tennessee specimens from >> the 1830's? How about 1826 minerals from Missouri's Viburnum trend? >> Earliest Magnet Cove minerals? Pre-1830 Maryland chromite deposits? His >> catalog is a gold mine of early American localities. And European >> minerals? Well, don't get me started. One can accrue a diverse locality >> listing from 12,840 mineral specimens! >> >> I'm going to give a copy of the database to the owners of the >> collection - the Louisville Science Center. It can be used as a tool to >> help preserve and conserve the collection which is the 2nd oldest mineral >> collection in the U.S. and about 12x larger than the oldest collection. >> Eventually, I hope to provide a copy to anyone who wants one. It won't >> happen immediately, but soon enough. >> >> Alan >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jan 26 19:28:21 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jan 26 19:27:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Show Announcement -- The Indian Mounds Rock and Mineral Club Message-ID: <41F85FB4.6027@Tomaszewski.net> The Indian Mounds Rock and Mineral Club is proud to announce that its 30th Annual Gem and Mineral Show will be held on April 7, 8, and 9, 2005, at Rogers Plaza Town Center Mall in Wyoming, Michigan. The doors will be open from 9:30 am to 9:00 pm. Mark your calendar so you can join us for this event. Rogers Plaza is located on 28th St., 1/4 mile west of US 131. Easy freeway access. Free parking. Free admission. Wyoming is part of the Greater Grand Rapids Metropolitan Area in West Michigan. The Club will be providing Exhibits and Demonstrations all three days. We will have a Children's Table with Minerals and Grab Bags. About a dozen Dealers will be present with their offerings of Rock and Mineral specimens, Fossils, supplies, and finished lapidary works. I hope you can join us for this fun event. I would love to meet some of the folks on the lists I participate in. =========== DEALERS: The last word I heard from our Show Chairs (last week) was that they had one table still open. If you are interested in doing this show please contact me OFF LIST and I will give you phone numbers of the Show Chairs. From tangojuli at yahoo.com Thu Jan 27 07:08:39 2005 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Thu Jan 27 07:08:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Alan G's milestone Message-ID: <20050127150839.50596.qmail@web60805.mail.yahoo.com> Alan- congratulations on your accomplishment! Your at Falls of the Ohio in Indiana, arn't you? tina t --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jr50wv at yahoo.com Thu Jan 27 10:57:31 2005 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Thu Jan 27 10:57:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral collection data base structure, keys and rules Message-ID: <20050127185731.11894.qmail@web41011.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Alan: I'm very interested in your work with the collection database - not necessarily in the data (well, that's interesting too, of course, but not what I'm writing about) but in the data structure you built to hold the collection data. I have been thinking about the various tables and foreign key relationships needed to contain minerological collection data, and usually wind up going roung and tound. So if you would share the tables and keys and data elements you settled on, it would be a big help to me in my personal quest to build and load a collection db for myself. Others in the rockhounds at drizzle list might also be interested in the technical data base aspects of your project. JR --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at verizon.net Thu Jan 27 11:54:04 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Jan 27 11:54:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] lava update Message-ID: <20050127195404.DTKZ17379.out008.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> Regulars on this list may be tired of my reminders, but the following pictures are really neat, in my opinion. http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/archive/2005/Jan/20050126-3699_CCH_large.jpg http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/archive/2005/Jan/20050126-3703_CCH_large.jpg For newbies, here's the site I'm in the habit of checking, if not daily, than weekly. The whole site is fun to explore, including Image Archives. http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/main.html Aloha, Kitty From tam2819 at cox.net Thu Jan 27 14:39:11 2005 From: tam2819 at cox.net (T.A.Masters) Date: Thu Jan 27 14:39:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] lava update References: <20050127195404.DTKZ17379.out008.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> Message-ID: <41F96D8F.2010101@cox.net> Kitty, Again thanks, these are incredible photos. Terrie From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Jan 27 15:30:48 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Jan 27 15:31:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] lava update watcher too References: <20050127195404.DTKZ17379.out008.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> Message-ID: <00a401c504c8$3b97c6a0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> We keep an eye on the volcano, too Kitty. Glenn has the link to it on his desktop and he has filled up his harddrive with all the pictures too interesting not to download and keep. When we went to Hawaii, seeing the volcano and real lava was the top thing on our list. We were disappointed that Pu`u O`o was sleeping when we were there. ONE week after we left, it woke up and has been producing ever since, almost three years now. I wonder if we went back would it quit again. Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 1:54 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] lava update > Regulars on this list may be tired of my reminders, but the following pictures are really neat, in my opinion. > > http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/archive/2005/Jan/20050126-3699_CCH_large.jpg > > http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/archive/2005/Jan/20050126-3703_CCH_large.jpg From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Thu Jan 27 16:34:36 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Thu Jan 27 16:34:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral collection data base structure, keys and rules References: <20050127185731.11894.qmail@web41011.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006701c504d1$258bebd0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> JR, I made the database to fit the information available in a 150 year old collection catalog. It is simple. A record can be printed out on a single piece of paper. Fields include: New Mineral Name & Old Mineral Name (i.e. Albite = Albin) Crystal habit (Troost was a bit of a crystallographer using Abbe' Hauy's system) Matrix or Associated minerals Location with 4 fields: Mine, City or Area, State or Province, Country Purchased from, and the cost Specimen location (cabinet, shelf at the museum, where known) Labels preserved (There are 5 generations of labels from "L1" = label in Troost's handwriting to L5 = last display label before the museum moved to its current location, this labels in-between.) Description (quoted directly from the catalog) In retrospect, I probably should have put in a field for commentary. That includes things like keywords, references to books in his library or papers he published, unusual Troost comments, etc. that I want to point out. For example, one page of the catalog has Troost's finger print in ink on a page. One specimen has an original Hauy label glued to it by Troost. I'm not sure my own catalog (if I had one in database form) would have this few of fields, but it might. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. R. Hodel" To: Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 1:57 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral collection data base structure, keys and rules > Hi Alan: > > I'm very interested in your work with the collection database - not > necessarily in the data (well, that's interesting too, of course, but not > what I'm writing about) but in the data structure you built to hold the > collection data. > > I have been thinking about the various tables and foreign key > relationships needed to contain minerological collection data, and usually > wind up going roung and tound. > > So if you would share the tables and keys and data elements you settled > on, it would be a big help to me in my personal quest to build and load a > collection db for myself. > > Others in the rockhounds at drizzle list might also be interested in the > technical data base aspects of your project. > > JR > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From hptdesigns at charter.net Thu Jan 27 17:07:03 2005 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Thu Jan 27 16:59:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral collection data base structure, keys and rules In-Reply-To: <006701c504d1$258bebd0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <3k01ib$l2tb29@mxip19a.cluster1.charter.net> Alan, Just wanted to let you know that as of Sunday at 1400 hours Don's database for mineral collecting will be finished and will include every conceivable field that can almost be thought of. At 1401 I am going to start drinking. And since I am off Monday, I might just continue through that day also. Tommy Armstrong tfa@brickengraver.com "Science is extraordinarily stupid about people as people and the consequence of this stupidity is going to do us all in if we don't do something about it" Walker Percy > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Alan Goldstein > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 7:35 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mineral collection data base > structure,keys and rules > > JR, > > I made the database to fit the information available in a 150 > year old collection catalog. It is simple. A record can be > printed out on a single piece of paper. Fields include: > > New Mineral Name & Old Mineral Name (i.e. Albite = Albin) > Crystal habit (Troost was a bit of a crystallographer using > Abbe' Hauy's > system) > Matrix or Associated minerals > Location with 4 fields: Mine, City or Area, State or > Province, Country Purchased from, and the cost Specimen > location (cabinet, shelf at the museum, where known) Labels > preserved (There are 5 generations of labels from "L1" = > label in Troost's handwriting to L5 = last display label > before the museum moved to its current location, this labels > in-between.) Description (quoted directly from the catalog) > > In retrospect, I probably should have put in a field for > commentary. That includes things like keywords, references to > books in his library or papers he published, unusual Troost > comments, etc. that I want to point out. For example, one > page of the catalog has Troost's finger print in ink on a page. > One specimen has an original Hauy label glued to it by Troost. > > I'm not sure my own catalog (if I had one in database form) > would have this few of fields, but it might. > > Alan > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "J. R. Hodel" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 1:57 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral collection data base structure, > keys and rules > > > > Hi Alan: > > > > I'm very interested in your work with the collection database - not > > necessarily in the data (well, that's interesting too, of > course, but not > > what I'm writing about) but in the data structure you built > to hold the > > collection data. > > > > I have been thinking about the various tables and foreign key > > relationships needed to contain minerological collection > data, and usually > > wind up going roung and tound. > > > > So if you would share the tables and keys and data elements > you settled > > on, it would be a big help to me in my personal quest to > build and load a > > collection db for myself. > > > > Others in the rockhounds at drizzle list might also be > interested in the > > technical data base aspects of your project. > > > > JR > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Jan 27 19:38:02 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Jan 27 19:34:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral collection data base structure, keys and rules References: <3k01ib$l2tb29@mxip19a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <41F9B2AF.12DB@Tomaszewski.net> Hi Tommy, Will your database have an import feature that could suck in Alan's database to populate it? That would save re-entry (key it once) while giving access to many more fields to capture the other details Alan has found. If not, maybe you could squeeze it in by Sunday... Kreigh Tommy Armstrong wrote: > > Alan, > > Just wanted to let you know that as of Sunday at 1400 hours Don's database > for mineral collecting will be finished and will include every conceivable > field that can almost be thought of. At 1401 I am going to start drinking. > And since I am off Monday, I might just continue through that day also. > > Tommy Armstrong > tfa@brickengraver.com > > "Science is extraordinarily stupid about people as people and the > consequence of this stupidity is going to do us all in if we don't do > something about it" > Walker Percy > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > > Alan Goldstein > > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 7:35 PM > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mineral collection data base > > structure,keys and rules > > > > JR, > > > > I made the database to fit the information available in a 150 > > year old collection catalog. It is simple. A record can be > > printed out on a single piece of paper. Fields include: > > > > New Mineral Name & Old Mineral Name (i.e. Albite = Albin) > > Crystal habit (Troost was a bit of a crystallographer using > > Abbe' Hauy's > > system) > > Matrix or Associated minerals > > Location with 4 fields: Mine, City or Area, State or > > Province, Country Purchased from, and the cost Specimen > > location (cabinet, shelf at the museum, where known) Labels > > preserved (There are 5 generations of labels from "L1" = > > label in Troost's handwriting to L5 = last display label > > before the museum moved to its current location, this labels > > in-between.) Description (quoted directly from the catalog) > > > > In retrospect, I probably should have put in a field for > > commentary. That includes things like keywords, references to > > books in his library or papers he published, unusual Troost > > comments, etc. that I want to point out. For example, one > > page of the catalog has Troost's finger print in ink on a page. > > One specimen has an original Hauy label glued to it by Troost. > > > > I'm not sure my own catalog (if I had one in database form) > > would have this few of fields, but it might. > > > > Alan > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "J. R. Hodel" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 1:57 PM > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral collection data base structure, > > keys and rules > > > > > > > Hi Alan: > > > > > > I'm very interested in your work with the collection database - not > > > necessarily in the data (well, that's interesting too, of > > course, but not > > > what I'm writing about) but in the data structure you built > > to hold the > > > collection data. > > > > > > I have been thinking about the various tables and foreign key > > > relationships needed to contain minerological collection > > data, and usually > > > wind up going roung and tound. > > > > > > So if you would share the tables and keys and data elements > > you settled > > > on, it would be a big help to me in my personal quest to > > build and load a > > > collection db for myself. > > > > > > Others in the rockhounds at drizzle list might also be > > interested in the > > > technical data base aspects of your project. > > > > > > JR From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Jan 27 20:05:11 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Jan 27 20:01:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Where Were Minerals Discovered Message-ID: <41F9B909.4967@Tomaszewski.net> I stumbled across an interesting study that looked at where the 4,000 or so accepted minerals were first discovered, by continent, and by country... http://www.smmp.net/IMA-CM/ctms_report2002.pdf I love it when Google gives me a wild-card response among less than 10 hits (and yes, one of the other hits had the unrelated info I was looking for). Enjoy! Kreigh From jpjunk at mc.net Thu Jan 27 20:03:30 2005 From: jpjunk at mc.net (jjunkroski) Date: Thu Jan 27 20:02:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] lava update In-Reply-To: <20050127195404.DTKZ17379.out008.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> Message-ID: Kitty: I love your reminders. Rock on. Junk on 1/27/05 1:54 PM, Kitty & Bill Heacox at kahako@verizon.net wrote: > Regulars on this list may be tired of my reminders, but the following pictures > are really neat, in my opinion. > > http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/archive/2005/Jan/20050126-3699_CCH_large > .jpg > > http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/archive/2005/Jan/20050126-3703_CCH_large > .jpg > > For newbies, here's the site I'm in the habit of checking, if not daily, than > weekly. The whole site is fun to explore, including Image Archives. > > http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/main.html > > Aloha, Kitty > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From hptdesigns at charter.net Thu Jan 27 21:08:34 2005 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Thu Jan 27 21:01:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral collection data base structure, keys and rules In-Reply-To: <41F9B2AF.12DB@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <3k70j8$ljvjv0@mxip17a.cluster1.charter.net> Actually, Kreigh--It could probably be done --If Alan wants to send me a copy I would be glad to give it a try. It appears he has a pretty limited number of fields and although might not directly import, could probably write a vb script to get it into the proper field. And might have to create a few special ones, but yes the answer is probably yes. Access has some pretty sophisticated import routines built it and if can be saved as tab delimited, comma delimited, excel, dbase, sql server, etc. I am not familiar with filemaker, but if can create a text file, comma delimited, or if can export to excel x--which I understand filemaker pro can do--should be able to dump it in. But not before Sunday Tommy Armstrong tfa@brickengraver.com "Science is extraordinarily stupid about people as people and the consequence of this stupidity is going to do us all in if we don't do something about it" Walker Percy > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Kreigh Tomaszewski > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 10:38 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mineral collection data base > structure,keys and rules > > Hi Tommy, > > Will your database have an import feature that could suck in > Alan's database to populate it? That would save re-entry (key > it once) while giving access to many more fields to capture > the other details Alan has found. If not, maybe you could > squeeze it in by Sunday... spec changer> > > Kreigh > > > > > Tommy Armstrong wrote: > > > > Alan, > > > > Just wanted to let you know that as of Sunday at 1400 hours Don's > > database for mineral collecting will be finished and will include > > every conceivable field that can almost be thought of. At > 1401 I am going to start drinking. > > And since I am off Monday, I might just continue through > that day also. > > > > Tommy Armstrong > > tfa@brickengraver.com > > > > "Science is extraordinarily stupid about people as people and the > > consequence of this stupidity is going to do us all in if > we don't do > > something about it" > > Walker Percy > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Alan > > > Goldstein > > > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 7:35 PM > > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > > collectors > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mineral collection data base > > > structure,keys and rules > > > > > > JR, > > > > > > I made the database to fit the information available in a > 150 year > > > old collection catalog. It is simple. A record can be > printed out on > > > a single piece of paper. Fields include: > > > > > > New Mineral Name & Old Mineral Name (i.e. Albite = Albin) Crystal > > > habit (Troost was a bit of a crystallographer using Abbe' Hauy's > > > system) > > > Matrix or Associated minerals > > > Location with 4 fields: Mine, City or Area, State or Province, > > > Country Purchased from, and the cost Specimen location (cabinet, > > > shelf at the museum, where known) Labels preserved (There are 5 > > > generations of labels from "L1" = label in Troost's > handwriting to > > > L5 = last display label before the museum moved to its current > > > location, this labels > > > in-between.) Description (quoted directly from the catalog) > > > > > > In retrospect, I probably should have put in a field for > commentary. > > > That includes things like keywords, references to books in his > > > library or papers he published, unusual Troost comments, > etc. that I > > > want to point out. For example, one page of the catalog > has Troost's > > > finger print in ink on a page. > > > One specimen has an original Hauy label glued to it by Troost. > > > > > > I'm not sure my own catalog (if I had one in database form) would > > > have this few of fields, but it might. > > > > > > Alan > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "J. R. Hodel" > > > To: > > > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 1:57 PM > > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral collection data base > structure, keys > > > and rules > > > > > > > > > > Hi Alan: > > > > > > > > I'm very interested in your work with the collection database - > > > > not necessarily in the data (well, that's interesting too, of > > > course, but not > > > > what I'm writing about) but in the data structure you built > > > to hold the > > > > collection data. > > > > > > > > I have been thinking about the various tables and foreign key > > > > relationships needed to contain minerological collection > > > data, and usually > > > > wind up going roung and tound. > > > > > > > > So if you would share the tables and keys and data elements > > > you settled > > > > on, it would be a big help to me in my personal quest to > > > build and load a > > > > collection db for myself. > > > > > > > > Others in the rockhounds at drizzle list might also be > > > interested in the > > > > technical data base aspects of your project. > > > > > > > > JR > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From Lapadary at aol.com Thu Jan 27 22:11:56 2005 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Thu Jan 27 22:12:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] radio shack microscope Message-ID: <78.6b67e934.2f2b31ac@aol.com> I was in Radio Shack yesterday and bought three @ $9.99 for Christmas Presents for my grand kids. Last night we put batteries in one and checked out a few item. The box said 60 X to 1 00 X and if you have it firmly pressed against the item you want to view the focus is very good with a sharp, crisp image. The focal length is very short. You can press it against something and get it focused, then tip it a few degrees and see the focus vanish. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 28 06:35:26 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Fri Jan 28 06:35:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] lava update watcher too In-Reply-To: <00a401c504c8$3b97c6a0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <20050128143526.39466.qmail@web51007.mail.yahoo.com> When we went > to Hawaii, seeing the > volcano and real lava was the top thing on our list. > We were disappointed > that Pu`u O`o was sleeping when we were there. ONE > week after we left, it > woke up and has been producing ever since, almost > three years now. I wonder > if we went back would it quit again. > Jeanette > In that case, please don't go back there in May. That's when we're going, and I'd hate to be disappointed. ::-) Jim Daly __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Jan 28 06:57:46 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Jan 28 06:57:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page In-Reply-To: <9BB8C648-6F19-11D9-8B32-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: >>Axel, you are testing my sanity. Oh, don't worry... You'll get a B+ easy ;-)))) >>They are quartz pseudomorphs after apophyllite. They looked that way but you can never be sure. >>I'm not sure how I picked up the habit of using "of" instead of >>"after," but would have sworn that it was common usage. Out of >>curiosity, I did some checking, and in all the writings I found in the >>books and periodicals, I appear to be the only person using "of." Too >>bad no editor or friend ever corrected me all these umpteenth years! Silly, butI didn't intend to correct you. I thought it was a language thing like the Brits say "taxi" when they need a cab. Same thing happened to me... been there, done that ;-))))) In my young years I was shooting my mouth off about the fluorescence of adamite once... nobody said anything, probably because nobody really knew (LOL). Anyway, the general trend seems to be: the more you learn, the quieter you become. >>The pseudomorph location (and the heulandite location too) is really a >>rather nasty site. After the snow leaves, it is usually dry and hot, ---------- snip ----------------- >>until mid to late June. Unless you want to hear more nasty comments, >>don't ask John about the wind, especially up on the Rat's Nest! Looking at the photos, I got a dry feeling in my mouth ;-))) Then again, that is quite natural for us Belgians. Cheers Axel From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Jan 28 08:12:19 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Jan 28 08:12:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel Emmermann forRecoveringPricelessMoonRocks In-Reply-To: <148.3cca5a25.2f26da49@aol.com> Message-ID: Dear Mr. Souza Please call me Axel. Let's keep the internet informal ;-)))) Sorry to be so late with my response but I was out for a few days. The chances that a moonrock was laying on the side of the road on San Pablo Ave are rather slim... Unless, of course, it was laying inside a building that has "NASA" on a plaque or sign, somewhere close to the entrance ;-))) I'd be glad to help you if I can. A good description of the rock would go a long way... as would the reason why you think it looks like a moon rock. Have you seen many moon rocks before? Best regards Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Edsouz@aol.com Verzonden: dinsdag 25 januari 2005 0:10 Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel Emmermann forRecoveringPricelessMoonRocks Dear MR. Axel Emmermann: I think I have found a piece of moon rock that was laying on the side of the road on San Pablo Ave. It looks like moon rock. If so I would like to find out for sure. Could you please help. Thank You E F Souza --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From geenet2 at mchsi.com Fri Jan 28 08:20:56 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Fri Jan 28 08:22:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] lava update watcher too References: <20050128143526.39466.qmail@web51007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001101c50555$594859c0$6501a8c0@mchsi.com> (VBEG)... Don't worry, we won't be able to make it back for a few more years. That was a once in a lifetime 3 week vacation! If you don't already have accommodations, check out Kate's Volcano Village in Volcano just outside Volcano National Park. Private cabins in the woods, that are so neat! Kate provides you with home made pastries, fruit and such for breakfast. LESS than $100 a night! About three miles from your nearest neigborhood volcano.. Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Daly" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] lava update watcher too > When we went > > to Hawaii, seeing the > > volcano and real lava was the top thing on our list. > > We were disappointed > > that Pu`u O`o was sleeping when we were there. ONE > > week after we left, it > > woke up and has been producing ever since, almost > > three years now. I wonder > > if we went back would it quit again. > > Jeanette > > > > In that case, please don't go back there in May. > That's when we're going, and I'd hate to be > disappointed. ::-) > Jim Daly > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Jan 28 08:33:03 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Jan 28 08:32:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors AxelEmmermannforRecoveringPricelessMoonRocks In-Reply-To: <006701c5040b$b42f0960$d48ea842@dit03r92qai5fx> Message-ID: Hi Jeanette & Brenda, In 1970 we (the MKA or "Antwerp Mineralogical Society") had the incredible luck of having a moonrock on loan for our annual mineral show "Minerant". We circumvented the security issues that were involved because one of our members made the vault of his company available for storing he rock overnight. Of course, we jumped at the chance ;-))))) Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens CorunDogs Verzonden: donderdag 27 januari 2005 2:01 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors AxelEmmermannforRecoveringPricelessMoonRocks THAT WAS FUNNY, Jeanette :-) But I just have to add a little 'off-topic/on-topic' comment to this... My partner (and I, I guess...hehe!!) are working with another gentleman who is opening a private museum on July 4th this coming year near Houston, Texas. I have been invited to go with him to NASA to pick up a moon rock to display at the museum....HOW COOL IS THAT???? If anyone is in the area, you are invited to the opening of the museum...it is a 20th Century Technology Museum. I don't know much more information than what I just told you, but if anyone is interested, I can share more with you as it gets closer. All I know is that when Will asked if I wanted to go with him to pick it up....I couldn't believe it - and of course, I am JUMPING AT THE CHANCE :-) Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, Nebraska Dedicated to helping abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a person.....to a Rescue Dog, you are the World!!! www.nationwidebostonrescue.org www.corunduminium.com - Ask me about The Corundum Project ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanette Wimpee" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 6:02 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel EmmermannforRecoveringPricelessMoonRocks My first response........ROTFL!! Yeah, right....are moon rocks falling from space or out of people's pockets? Are any "missing"? Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 5:10 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel Emmermann forRecoveringPricelessMoonRocks > > > Dear MR. Axel Emmermann: > > I think I have found a piece of moon rock that was laying on the side of the > road on San Pablo Ave. > > It looks like moon rock. > > If so I would like to find out for sure. > > Could you please help. > > Thank You > E F Souza > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at att.net Fri Jan 28 09:03:22 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Fri Jan 28 09:03:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page Message-ID: <012820051703.28828.41FA7059000C3F310000709C216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Hi, Axel & Lanny & all the folks online, I'm puzzling over some of your reply, Axel! <<<<>>>>I'm not sure how I picked up the habit of using "of" instead of >>"after," but would have sworn that it was common usage. Lanny, glad you got straightened out! Though probably everyone always knew what you meant, it is true that saying "quartz pseudomorph of apophyllite" could equally well mean "after apophyllite" or, that the thing is now composed of apophyllite. Pete --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Jan 28 09:52:36 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Jan 28 09:52:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page In-Reply-To: <012820051703.28828.41FA7059000C3F310000709C216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: Hi Pete, >>I'm puzzling over some of your reply, Axel! Well, it's that some things get lost in translation ... For example: there seems to be no correct word for "set of minerals that arise from the conditions that exist in a certain place". We would call that a "paragnese" in Dutch and translate it to "paragenesis". I couldn't find "paragenesis " in any dictionnary, not even in the specialized "mineral terms" of the Photo Atlas. It might confuse you if I used that term or similar bad translations. (I'm still puzzled... is paragenesis a correct term?) <<<<Taxi? Cab? Are Americans classed with the "Brit's", too? Taxi is what we (or at least I) call them; or cab, that works >too. To me, "taxi" is the standard word--maybe it's a NY-NJ thing, and the west coast says cab, or something?? OK... lift and elevator then? <<<I can't figure out what you mean by that, Axel. What's wrong with talking about the fluorescence of adamite? I kept re->> >>reading your sentence, thinking I was missing something. Adamite is, indeed, fluorescent; what's the problem with saying that? It was about 30 years ago that there was some discussion about the activator of the green fluorescence in adamite. Some thought it was uranyl and others thought it was manganese... I don't remember which camp I belonged to but al my arguments were seriously ridiculous... >>>>>I'm not sure how I picked up the habit of using "of" instead of >>"after," but would have sworn that it was common usage. >Lanny, glad you got straightened out! Though probably everyone always knew what you meant, it is true that saying "quartz >pseudomorph of apophyllite" could equally well mean "after apophyllite" or, that the thing is now composed of apophyllite. Yes, you see... then it WAS a language thing after all. I didn't understand it. If I would have thought Lanny needed correcting I would have sent him a private e-mail. It's not because my English is good enough for some conversation that I claim it is perfect... cut me some slack, will you? Axel From Lapadary at aol.com Fri Jan 28 11:23:21 2005 From: Lapadary at aol.com (Lapadary@aol.com) Date: Fri Jan 28 11:23:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page Message-ID: In a message dated 1/28/2005 9:52:51 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, axel.emmermann@pandora.be writes: Hi Pete, >>I'm puzzling over some of your reply, Axel! Well, it's that some things get lost in translation ... Even between American English and British English some things get lost in translation. In America we say, "I felt like I had be hit by a truck." That statement has impact in the U. S. but it will get you a blank stare in some English speaking countries. Saying, "I felt like I had be hit by a lorry" doesn't have the same impact. Grant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rik.dillen at skynet.be Fri Jan 28 11:24:45 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Fri Jan 28 11:25:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] NASA HonorsAxelEmmermannforRecoveringPricelessMoonRocks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200501281925.j0SJOiaW021360@outmx019.isp.belgacom.be> -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 5:33 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] NASA HonorsAxelEmmermannforRecoveringPricelessMoonRocks Hi Jeanette & Brenda, In 1970 we (the MKA or "Antwerp Mineralogical Society") had the incredible luck of having a moonrock on loan for our annual mineral show "Minerant". We circumvented the security issues that were involved because one of our members made the vault of his company available for storing he rock overnight. Of course, we jumped at the chance ;-))))) >>>>> Actually, it was in 1978... anyway, in the past century ;>) Greetings, Rik Dillen -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens CorunDogs Verzonden: donderdag 27 januari 2005 2:01 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors AxelEmmermannforRecoveringPricelessMoonRocks THAT WAS FUNNY, Jeanette :-) But I just have to add a little 'off-topic/on-topic' comment to this... My partner (and I, I guess...hehe!!) are working with another gentleman who is opening a private museum on July 4th this coming year near Houston, Texas. I have been invited to go with him to NASA to pick up a moon rock to display at the museum....HOW COOL IS THAT???? If anyone is in the area, you are invited to the opening of the museum...it is a 20th Century Technology Museum. I don't know much more information than what I just told you, but if anyone is interested, I can share more with you as it gets closer. All I know is that when Will asked if I wanted to go with him to pick it up....I couldn't believe it - and of course, I am JUMPING AT THE CHANCE :-) Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, Nebraska Dedicated to helping abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a person.....to a Rescue Dog, you are the World!!! www.nationwidebostonrescue.org www.corunduminium.com - Ask me about The Corundum Project [Rik Dillen] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanette Wimpee" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 6:02 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel EmmermannforRecoveringPricelessMoonRocks My first response........ROTFL!! Yeah, right....are moon rocks falling from space or out of people's pockets? Are any "missing"? Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 5:10 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] NASA Honors Axel Emmermann forRecoveringPricelessMoonRocks > Dear MR. Axel Emmermann: > > I think I have found a piece of moon rock that was laying on the side of the > road on San Pablo Ave. > > It looks like moon rock. > > If so I would like to find out for sure. > > Could you please help. > > Thank You > E F Souza From pawpawtiger at mchsi.com Fri Jan 28 12:06:33 2005 From: pawpawtiger at mchsi.com (Glenn's Mail) Date: Fri Jan 28 12:06:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page References: <012820051703.28828.41FA7059000C3F310000709C216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <002a01c50574$dd62c4b0$6401a8c0@GlennWimpee> If I need a "taxi" because I have collected too many rocks to ride the group bus back to the motel, I call a "cab". (No relation to a polished semiprecious stone.) ROTFL Glenn from the DEEP SOUTH U.S. ----- Original Message ----- From: > Hi, Axel & Lanny & all the folks online, > > I'm puzzling over some of your reply, Axel! > > > > <<<< thing > like the Brits say "taxi" when they need a cab. > > Taxi? Cab? Are Americans classed with the "Brit's", too? Taxi is what > we (or at least I) call them; or cab, that works too. To me, "taxi" is > the standard word--maybe it's a NY-NJ thing, and the west coast says cab, > or something?? > > <<< of > adamite once... nobody said anything, probably because nobody really knew > (LOL). Anyway, the general trend seems to be: the more you learn, the > quieter you become. AMEN! & this is true in almost all fields. (Glenn)> Lanny, glad you got straightened out! Though probably everyone always knew what you meant, it is true that saying "quartz pseudomorph of apophyllite" could equally well mean "after apophyllite" or, that the thing is now composed of apophyllite. > > Pete > From danielz at acmenet.net Fri Jan 28 14:49:55 2005 From: danielz at acmenet.net (Dan Z) Date: Fri Jan 28 14:49:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [AD] Dealer Special - Betafite: rare, ugly, radioactive Message-ID: <000501c5058b$b097ab50$6401a8c0@M1Garand> The bargain of a lifetime - a group of individual betafite crystals and several small clusters. This is a very rare mineral, radioactive (uranium and niobium are two of its elements), and superbly ugly. As further indication of its scarcity, it also contains titanium and tantulum. And it's worth a lot! The 1983 "Standard Mineralogical Catalog" gave a price range of $4.20 to $29.50 EACH for average specimens of the sizes under 1/2-inch and under two inches. The price for higher quality was $8 and $50 each. And that was 1983! I have posted a 550K picture at http://www.manyfacets/com/betafite.jpg . I can email you the 2 megabyte picture if desired. As you can see, there are about 35 crystals and crystal groups. The largest individual crystal is about 1-3/4 inch (lower left), the 1983 $30-$50 size. The tray they are in is 11 inch by 6 inch. Price for all: $100, much less than the 1983 price for that number of just average, smallest pieces! Shipping/handling (Priority One mail), $6.50. Formula: (Ca,Na,U)(Ti,Nb,Ta)2O6(OH) The two and the six are subscripts. -dan z- Many Facets From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Fri Jan 28 22:06:44 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Fri Jan 28 21:56:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page References: Message-ID: <002d01c505c8$b68206e0$d1a4490c@pete> Hi Axel, Paragenesis is a totally proper term in English, that's the term we use, for a mineral assemblage. I'm surprised it's not in regular dictionaries, but it is a technical term, and only literature from ore deposits and mineralogy would likely have it--not necessarily things written for the amateur collector. And no one's knocking your English, Axel (not me, for sure), just making any comments about things we don't understand! And now I understand about what you were debating about adamite (and yes, it is uranyl ion that causes the fluorescence in it). Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 10:52 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page > Hi Pete, > > >>I'm puzzling over some of your reply, Axel! > > Well, it's that some things get lost in translation ... For example: there > seems to be no correct word for "set of minerals that arise from the > conditions that exist in a certain place". We would call that a "paragnese" > in Dutch and translate it to "paragenesis". I couldn't find "paragenesis " > in any dictionnary, not even in the specialized "mineral terms" of the Photo > Atlas. It might confuse you if I used that term or similar bad translations. > (I'm still puzzled... is paragenesis a correct term?) > > > <<<< thing > like the Brits say "taxi" when they need a cab. > > >Taxi? Cab? Are Americans classed with the "Brit's", too? Taxi is what > we (or at least I) call them; or cab, that works >too. To me, "taxi" is the > standard word--maybe it's a NY-NJ thing, and the west coast says cab, or > something?? > > OK... lift and elevator then? > > <<< adamite once... nobody said anything, probably because nobody really knew > > >I can't figure out what you mean by that, Axel. What's wrong with talking > about the fluorescence of adamite? I kept re->> > >>reading your sentence, thinking I was missing something. Adamite is, > indeed, fluorescent; what's the problem with saying that? > > It was about 30 years ago that there was some discussion about the activator > of the green fluorescence in adamite. Some thought it was uranyl and others > thought it was manganese... I don't remember which camp I belonged to but al > my arguments were seriously ridiculous... > > >>>>>I'm not sure how I picked up the habit of using "of" instead of > >>"after," but would have sworn that it was common usage. > > >Lanny, glad you got straightened out! Though probably everyone always knew > what you meant, it is true that saying "quartz >pseudomorph of apophyllite" > could equally well mean "after apophyllite" or, that the thing is now > composed of apophyllite. > > Yes, you see... then it WAS a language thing after all. I didn't understand > it. > If I would have thought Lanny needed correcting I would have sent him a > private e-mail. It's not because my English is good enough for some > conversation that I claim it is perfect... cut me some slack, will you? > > Axel > > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jan 28 22:13:07 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jan 28 22:05:37 2005 Subject: Hydnoceras {was:Re: [Rockhounds] [AD] Dealer Special - Betafite: rare, ugly, radioactive} References: <000501c5058b$b097ab50$6401a8c0@M1Garand> Message-ID: <41FB27AA.3430@Tomaszewski.net> Hi again Dan, New subject; Hydnoceras. Uncommon fossil sponge found only in New York to Pennsylvania in North America. Bill Dicks is looking for one for a High School he teaches at (per a List posting). I owe a debt to a teacher I once had; Bill looks like a good recipient for repayment, so I am starting to look around for a Hydnoceras. Your website indicates you have have Fossils in your Rock Shop, but they are not online. I would take great joy in suprising an outstanding teacher by granting his plea. Any chance you have a Hydnoceras? Kreigh Dan Z wrote: > > The bargain of a lifetime - a group of individual betafite crystals and > several small clusters. This is a very rare mineral, radioactive (uranium > and niobium are two of its elements), and superbly ugly. As further > indication of its scarcity, it also contains titanium and tantulum. And it's > worth a lot! The 1983 "Standard Mineralogical Catalog" gave a price range of > $4.20 to $29.50 EACH for average specimens of the sizes under 1/2-inch and > under two inches. The price for higher quality was $8 and $50 each. And that > was 1983! > > I have posted a 550K picture at http://www.manyfacets/com/betafite.jpg . I > can email you the 2 megabyte picture if desired. As you can see, there are > about 35 crystals and crystal groups. The largest individual crystal is > about 1-3/4 inch (lower left), the 1983 $30-$50 size. The tray they are in > is 11 inch by 6 inch. > > Price for all: $100, much less than the 1983 price for that number of just > average, smallest pieces! > > Shipping/handling (Priority One mail), $6.50. > > Formula: (Ca,Na,U)(Ti,Nb,Ta)2O6(OH) The two and the six are subscripts. > > -dan z- > Many Facets From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Jan 29 02:30:28 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Jan 29 02:30:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page In-Reply-To: <002d01c505c8$b68206e0$d1a4490c@pete> Message-ID: Hi Pete, >Paragenesis is a totally proper term in English, that's the term we use, for >a mineral assemblage. Now that's a relief... ;-))))) "Assemblage" is another term I should try to remember. >I'm surprised it's not in regular dictionaries, but >it is a technical term, and only literature from ore deposits and mineralogy >would likely have it--not necessarily things written for the amateur >collector. You'd be surprised what huge "technical gaps" there are in most dictionaries of most languages. In many cases we just make up a new word while we go ;-))) I use the Concise Oxford Dictionary CD that was bundled with my L&H translation software. Usually it distinguishes clearly between British English and NA English. A must-have for me! >And no one's knocking your English, Axel (not me, for sure), just making any >comments about things we don't understand! Didn't think so for a minute ;-)))) >And now I understand about what >you were debating about adamite (and yes, it is uranyl ion that causes the >fluorescence in it). Well, I knew that. But now I heard rumors about yellow fluorescing adamite. The daylight color is supposed to be white to water clear. It's just a rumor but an interesting one (don't remember where it came from). Axel From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sat Jan 29 07:58:13 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sat Jan 29 07:48:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page References: Message-ID: <001301c5061b$573fa680$aea4490c@pete> "Paragenesis" has always tended to be used most in the study of mineral assemblages in ore deposits, whereas "mineral assemblage" is more commonly used in descriptive mineralogy and even in metamorphic petrology. I'd say that in general descriptive mineralogy, people tend to use the simpler term, "association", more. "Associated minerals" simply mean that they occur together, which may mean that one mineral was deposited earlier, and others at a later stage. "Mineral assemblage" properly means that all the minerals grew together, simultaneous or perhaps sequentially (as when one replaces another), but usually implies that the minerals formed at something approximating equilibrium chemical conditions. Mineral assemblage thus used, equates in meaning to "paragenesis". I think I've stated this meanings correctly here! Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 3:30 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page > Hi Pete, > > >Paragenesis is a totally proper term in English, that's the term we use, > for > >a mineral assemblage. > > Now that's a relief... ;-))))) > "Assemblage" is another term I should try to remember. > > >I'm surprised it's not in regular dictionaries, but > >it is a technical term, and only literature from ore deposits and > mineralogy > >would likely have it--not necessarily things written for the amateur > >collector. > > You'd be surprised what huge "technical gaps" there are in most dictionaries > of most languages. > In many cases we just make up a new word while we go ;-))) > I use the Concise Oxford Dictionary CD that was bundled with my L&H > translation software. Usually it distinguishes clearly between British > English and NA English. A must-have for me! > > >And no one's knocking your English, Axel (not me, for sure), just making > any > >comments about things we don't understand! > > Didn't think so for a minute ;-)))) > > >And now I understand about what > >you were debating about adamite (and yes, it is uranyl ion that causes the > >fluorescence in it). > > Well, I knew that. But now I heard rumors about yellow fluorescing adamite. > The daylight color is supposed to be white to water clear. It's just a rumor > but an interesting one (don't remember where it came from). > > Axel > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jbryankramer at msn.com Sat Jan 29 08:40:04 2005 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Jan 29 08:40:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Virus on the list! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Someone on the list has the new BAGEL-AZ virus, I just got a copy using Axel's address. That doesn't mean that Axel is the one however, just that Axel is in the infected computer's address list. Bryan -------Original Message----- --From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com --[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of --Axel Emmermann --Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 05:30 --To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors --Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page -- -- --Hi Pete, -- -->Paragenesis is a totally proper term in English, that's the term we -->use, --for -->a mineral assemblage. -- --Now that's a relief... ;-))))) --"Assemblage" is another term I should try to remember. -- -->I'm surprised it's not in regular dictionaries, but -->it is a technical term, and only literature from ore deposits and --mineralogy -->would likely have it--not necessarily things written for the amateur -->collector. -- --You'd be surprised what huge "technical gaps" there are in --most dictionaries of most languages. In many cases we just --make up a new word while we go ;-))) I use the Concise Oxford --Dictionary CD that was bundled with my L&H translation --software. Usually it distinguishes clearly between British --English and NA English. A must-have for me! -- -->And no one's knocking your English, Axel (not me, for sure), just -->making --any -->comments about things we don't understand! -- --Didn't think so for a minute ;-)))) -- -->And now I understand about what -->you were debating about adamite (and yes, it is uranyl ion --that causes -->the fluorescence in it). -- --Well, I knew that. But now I heard rumors about yellow --fluorescing adamite. The daylight color is supposed to be --white to water clear. It's just a rumor but an interesting --one (don't remember where it came from). -- --Axel -- -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Jan 29 09:20:05 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Jan 29 09:20:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Virus on the list! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Brian, must be a new bug since my NAV doesn't know it. I just saw my PC do a "live update" of the virus definitions so that end is covered. I couldn't find this BAGEL-AZ virus in the virus encyclopedia on the net. It must be really brand new then? Still, it has a name already so help must be underway ;-))) I don't think I have it but I'll do a full system scan right away. Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens J Bryan Kramer Verzonden: zaterdag 29 januari 2005 17:40 Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Virus on the list! Someone on the list has the new BAGEL-AZ virus, I just got a copy using Axel's address. That doesn't mean that Axel is the one however, just that Axel is in the infected computer's address list. Bryan -------Original Message----- --From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com --[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of --Axel Emmermann --Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 05:30 --To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors --Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page -- -- --Hi Pete, -- -->Paragenesis is a totally proper term in English, that's the term we -->use, --for -->a mineral assemblage. -- --Now that's a relief... ;-))))) --"Assemblage" is another term I should try to remember. -- -->I'm surprised it's not in regular dictionaries, but -->it is a technical term, and only literature from ore deposits and --mineralogy -->would likely have it--not necessarily things written for the amateur -->collector. -- --You'd be surprised what huge "technical gaps" there are in --most dictionaries of most languages. In many cases we just --make up a new word while we go ;-))) I use the Concise Oxford --Dictionary CD that was bundled with my L&H translation --software. Usually it distinguishes clearly between British --English and NA English. A must-have for me! -- -->And no one's knocking your English, Axel (not me, for sure), just -->making --any -->comments about things we don't understand! -- --Didn't think so for a minute ;-)))) -- -->And now I understand about what -->you were debating about adamite (and yes, it is uranyl ion --that causes -->the fluorescence in it). -- --Well, I knew that. But now I heard rumors about yellow --fluorescing adamite. The daylight color is supposed to be --white to water clear. It's just a rumor but an interesting --one (don't remember where it came from). -- --Axel -- -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Jan 29 09:42:36 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Jan 29 09:42:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page In-Reply-To: <001301c5061b$573fa680$aea4490c@pete> Message-ID: Hi Pete >"Mineral assemblage" properly means that all the minerals grew together, >simultaneous or perhaps sequentially (as when one replaces another), but >usually implies that the minerals formed at something approximating >equilibrium chemical conditions. Mineral assemblage thus used, equates in >meaning to "paragenesis". I think I've stated this meanings correctly here! I think so too! Thanks Axel From jbryankramer at msn.com Sat Jan 29 09:45:02 2005 From: jbryankramer at msn.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Jan 29 09:45:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Virus on the list! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Axel, Just because it used your address doesn't mean your system originated the worm. It just means that the infected system had both of our addresses in it's address list. Since the on contact we have is the list it has to be someone on the list. The worm: http://www.trendmicro.com/vinfo/virusencyclo/default5.asp?VName=WORM_BAGLE.A Z Is new and apparently spreading rapidly. Trend AV (which I am now using after giving up on Norton (curse you NAV #@!$)) sent out an email warning a couple of days ago. But list members probably should do a scan, its most likely from someone who doesn't keep their AV definitions up to date. Bryan -------Original Message----- --From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com --[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of --Axel Emmermann --Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 12:20 --To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors --Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Virus on the list! -- -- --Hi Brian, -- --must be a new bug since my NAV doesn't know it. I just saw --my PC do a "live update" of the virus definitions so that end --is covered. I couldn't find this BAGEL-AZ virus in the virus --encyclopedia on the net. It must be really brand new then? --Still, it has a name already so help must be underway ;-))) -- --I don't think I have it but I'll do a full system scan right away. -- --Axel -- -------Oorspronkelijk bericht----- --Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com --[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens J Bryan Kramer --Verzonden: zaterdag 29 januari 2005 17:40 --Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem --collectors' --Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Virus on the list! -- -- --Someone on the list has the new BAGEL-AZ virus, I just got a --copy using Axel's address. That doesn't mean that Axel is the --one however, just that Axel is in the infected computer's --address list. -- --Bryan -- ---------Original Message----- ----From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com ----[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of ----Axel Emmermann ----Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 05:30 ----To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem --collectors ----Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page ---- ---- ----Hi Pete, ---- ---->Paragenesis is a totally proper term in English, that's --the term we ---->use, ----for ---->a mineral assemblage. ---- ----Now that's a relief... ;-))))) ----"Assemblage" is another term I should try to remember. ---- ---->I'm surprised it's not in regular dictionaries, but ---->it is a technical term, and only literature from ore deposits and ----mineralogy ---->would likely have it--not necessarily things written for --the amateur ---->collector. ---- ----You'd be surprised what huge "technical gaps" there are in ----most dictionaries of most languages. In many cases we just ----make up a new word while we go ;-))) I use the Concise --Oxford --Dictionary CD that was bundled with my L&H --translation --software. Usually it distinguishes clearly --between British --English and NA English. A must-have for me! ---- ---->And no one's knocking your English, Axel (not me, for sure), just ---->making ----any ---->comments about things we don't understand! ---- ----Didn't think so for a minute ;-)))) ---- ---->And now I understand about what ---->you were debating about adamite (and yes, it is uranyl ion ----that causes ---->the fluorescence in it). ---- ----Well, I knew that. But now I heard rumors about yellow ----fluorescing adamite. The daylight color is supposed to be ----white to water clear. It's just a rumor but an interesting ----one (don't remember where it came from). ---- ----Axel ---- ---- ----_______________________________________________ ----Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List ----WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds ----Subscription Services: ----http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ---- -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- -- -- -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- From lanny at lrream.com Sat Jan 29 10:00:39 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sat Jan 29 09:58:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page In-Reply-To: <012820051703.28828.41FA7059000C3F310000709C216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <012820051703.28828.41FA7059000C3F310000709C216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: Now that you've brought it up again Pete, I'm going to go ahead and state that I don't see where there would be any confusion. If I was to say it was a "quartz copy of apophyllite" wouldn't you clearly understand what I meant? Isn't one mineral forming a pseudomorph of another just another way of saying it is making a copy of it? Aren't they using the word "of" in the same way/same meaning? As I write this though a thought comes to mind; in referring to a quartz pseudomorph after calcite, some people say it is a "calcite pseudomorph." If they do that, then I can see where using "of" would be confusing. Although I do believe calling such a pseudomorph a calcite pseudomorph is wrong because it is not clear weather it is calcite doing the replacing or calcite that is replaced, but that's another matter. When Axel noted the confusion, I did a lot of looking and discovered that after all these years I had somehow not noticed that nobody else stated it that way. I had noticed that most used "after" not "of," but hadn't realized that nobody else used of. Which surprised me. So much for my powers of observation. Yet, after using "of" all these years, this is the first time anyone ever told me my use was confusing. Thanks to Axel, and you Pete, I am now in harmony with the world on this matter. Although still confused on why it was confusing or which pseudomorph Art Smith means when he writes about the brookite pseudomorphs at Magnet Cove.... And by the way I am more or less on the West Coast (as compared to most of the USA) and around here we say taxi or cab, whichever pops out, but probably say taxi more than cab. Of course we also say celestite instead of celestine, and definitely "say" barite and not baryte! Regards, Lanny On Jan 28, 2005, at 9:03 AM, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > > > > <<<< language thing > like the Brits say "taxi" when they need a cab. > > Taxi? Cab? Are Americans classed with the "Brit's", too? Taxi is > what we (or at least I) call them; or cab, that works too. To me, > "taxi" is the standard word--maybe it's a NY-NJ thing, and the west > coast says c > > Lanny, glad you got straightened out! Though probably everyone always > knew what you meant, it is true that saying "quartz pseudomorph of > apophyllite" could equally well mean "after apophyllite" or, that the > thing is now composed of apophyllite. > > Pete > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From cabrageo at cksonline.net Sat Jan 29 09:56:15 2005 From: cabrageo at cksonline.net (David J. Smith) Date: Sat Jan 29 10:01:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Virus on the list! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41FBCE3F.9000607@cksonline.net> These things make me thankful I run Thunderbird on Linux. No more email viruses. Also offtopic, I noticed a spam e-mail in my junkbox (I always do a quick scan for false positives) from a certain "Arron Fox" Someone seems to be trying (unsuccessfully-note the bad spelling) to get around my spam filters :) On topic, a local fazendeira is trying to raise a little money on the side mining a small copper deposit on her land, it's turning out some nice bornite/chalcopyrite specimens. From lanny at lrream.com Sat Jan 29 10:11:54 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sat Jan 29 10:09:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page In-Reply-To: <001301c5061b$573fa680$aea4490c@pete> References: <001301c5061b$573fa680$aea4490c@pete> Message-ID: <4193D1BE-7221-11D9-8B32-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi Pete, I think you confused the main point of paragenesis in how you stated it, especially the last paragraph. Paragenesis is not just the assemblage of minerals or associated minerals, it is the order in which they are formed, thus it would not equate to "mineral assemblage" as you state that in the last paragraph. That was one of the main points of using paragenesis in ore deposits. As I recall, in the mineral periodicals, that is also how it is most often used, generally with a little diagram showing the time line. Regards, Lanny On Jan 29, 2005, at 7:58 AM, Peter J. Modreski wrote: > "Paragenesis" has always tended to be used most in the study of mineral > assemblages in ore deposits, whereas "mineral assemblage" is more > commonly > used in descriptive mineralogy and even in metamorphic petrology. > > I'd say that in general descriptive mineralogy, people tend to use the > simpler term, "association", more. "Associated minerals" simply mean > that > they occur together, which may mean that one mineral was deposited > earlier, > and others at a later stage. > > "Mineral assemblage" properly means that all the minerals grew > together, > simultaneous or perhaps sequentially (as when one replaces another), > but > usually implies that the minerals formed at something approximating > equilibrium chemical conditions. Mineral assemblage thus used, > equates in > meaning to "paragenesis". I think I've stated this meanings correctly > here! > > Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Axel Emmermann" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > > Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 3:30 AM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page > > >> Hi Pete, >> >>> Paragenesis is a totally proper term in English, that's the term we >>> use, >> for >>> a mineral assemblage. >> >> Now that's a relief... ;-))))) >> "Assemblage" is another term I should try to remember. >> >>> I'm surprised it's not in regular dictionaries, but >>> it is a technical term, and only literature from ore deposits and >> mineralogy >>> would likely have it--not necessarily things written for the amateur >>> collector. >> >> You'd be surprised what huge "technical gaps" there are in most > dictionaries >> of most languages. >> In many cases we just make up a new word while we go ;-))) >> I use the Concise Oxford Dictionary CD that was bundled with my L&H >> translation software. Usually it distinguishes clearly between British >> English and NA English. A must-have for me! >> >>> And no one's knocking your English, Axel (not me, for sure), just >>> making >> any >>> comments about things we don't understand! >> >> Didn't think so for a minute ;-)))) >> >>> And now I understand about what >>> you were debating about adamite (and yes, it is uranyl ion that >>> causes > the >>> fluorescence in it). >> >> Well, I knew that. But now I heard rumors about yellow fluorescing > adamite. >> The daylight color is supposed to be white to water clear. It's just a > rumor >> but an interesting one (don't remember where it came from). >> >> Axel >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sat Jan 29 10:42:25 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sat Jan 29 10:42:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Virus on the list! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200501291842.j0TIgPJa032168@outmx014.isp.belgacom.be> It is in Symantec's list since thursday already. W32.Beagle.AY@mm Discovered on: January 26, 2005 Last Updated on: January 27, 2005 10:27:59 AM Also Known As: Win32.Bagle.AT [Computer Associates], Bagle.AX [F-Secure], Email-Worm.Win32.Bagle.ax [Kaspersky Lab], W32/Bagle.bj@MM [McAfee], WORM_BAGLE.AY [Trend Micro] Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2005 - 23 and 24 April 2005 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 6:45 PM To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Virus on the list! Axel, Just because it used your address doesn't mean your system originated the worm. It just means that the infected system had both of our addresses in it's address list. Since the on contact we have is the list it has to be someone on the list. The worm: http://www.trendmicro.com/vinfo/virusencyclo/default5.asp?VName=WORM_BAGLE.A Z Is new and apparently spreading rapidly. Trend AV (which I am now using after giving up on Norton (curse you NAV #@!$)) sent out an email warning a couple of days ago. But list members probably should do a scan, its most likely from someone who doesn't keep their AV definitions up to date. Bryan -------Original Message----- --From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com --[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of --Axel Emmermann --Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 12:20 --To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors --Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Virus on the list! -- -- --Hi Brian, -- --must be a new bug since my NAV doesn't know it. I just saw --my PC do a "live update" of the virus definitions so that end --is covered. I couldn't find this BAGEL-AZ virus in the virus --encyclopedia on the net. It must be really brand new then? --Still, it has a name already so help must be underway ;-))) -- --I don't think I have it but I'll do a full system scan right away. -- --Axel -- -------Oorspronkelijk bericht----- --Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com --[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens J Bryan Kramer --Verzonden: zaterdag 29 januari 2005 17:40 --Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem --collectors' --Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Virus on the list! -- -- --Someone on the list has the new BAGEL-AZ virus, I just got a --copy using Axel's address. That doesn't mean that Axel is the --one however, just that Axel is in the infected computer's --address list. -- --Bryan -- ---------Original Message----- ----From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com ----[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of ----Axel Emmermann ----Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 05:30 ----To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem --collectors ----Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page ---- ---- ----Hi Pete, ---- ---->Paragenesis is a totally proper term in English, that's --the term we ---->use, ----for ---->a mineral assemblage. ---- ----Now that's a relief... ;-))))) ----"Assemblage" is another term I should try to remember. ---- ---->I'm surprised it's not in regular dictionaries, but ---->it is a technical term, and only literature from ore deposits and ----mineralogy ---->would likely have it--not necessarily things written for --the amateur ---->collector. ---- ----You'd be surprised what huge "technical gaps" there are in ----most dictionaries of most languages. In many cases we just ----make up a new word while we go ;-))) I use the Concise --Oxford --Dictionary CD that was bundled with my L&H --translation --software. Usually it distinguishes clearly --between British --English and NA English. A must-have for me! ---- ---->And no one's knocking your English, Axel (not me, for sure), just ---->making ----any ---->comments about things we don't understand! ---- ----Didn't think so for a minute ;-)))) ---- ---->And now I understand about what ---->you were debating about adamite (and yes, it is uranyl ion ----that causes ---->the fluorescence in it). ---- ----Well, I knew that. But now I heard rumors about yellow ----fluorescing adamite. The daylight color is supposed to be ----white to water clear. It's just a rumor but an interesting ----one (don't remember where it came from). ---- ----Axel ---- ---- ----_______________________________________________ ----Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List ----WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds ----Subscription Services: ----http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ---- -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- -- -- -- --_______________________________________________ --Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List --WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds --Subscription Services: --http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sat Jan 29 10:54:08 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sat Jan 29 10:54:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page References: <012820051703.28828.41FA7059000C3F310000709C216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <004601c50633$e9c49340$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I learned about pseudomorphs under the tutilage of Betty Gilford, 4-H geology leader in my area (who set up a rockshop in Quartzite, AZ a few years later). I was in the 5th grade (+ / -) in 1969. I had found a geode with calcite that she called "calcite psuedomorph after dolomite." It was used in my first state fair mineral display which won a blue ribbon. Needless to say, it was pretty well hammered into my geo-lingo before I entered junior high school. One a related matter, going through the Troost catalog, he was aware of one mineral replacing the form of a pre-existing one early on (probably no later than 1828). I found one entry where he uses "psuedomorphic" in his description ( in the 1840's). I found another entry (also 1840's) where he is clearly describing a paragenetic sequence of minerals on one Derbishire specimen. Of course, he didn't use the word "paragenesis," because that word had not been invented! Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 1:00 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page > Now that you've brought it up again Pete, I'm going to go ahead and state > that I don't see where there would be any confusion. If I was to say it > was a "quartz copy of apophyllite" wouldn't you clearly understand what I > meant? Isn't one mineral forming a pseudomorph of another just another way > of saying it is making a copy of it? Aren't they using the word "of" in > the same way/same meaning? > > As I write this though a thought comes to mind; in referring to a quartz > pseudomorph after calcite, some people say it is a "calcite pseudomorph." > If they do that, then I can see where using "of" would be confusing. > Although I do believe calling such a pseudomorph a calcite pseudomorph is > wrong because it is not clear weather it is calcite doing the replacing or > calcite that is replaced, but that's another matter. > > When Axel noted the confusion, I did a lot of looking and discovered that > after all these years I had somehow not noticed that nobody else stated it > that way. I had noticed that most used "after" not "of," but hadn't > realized that nobody else used of. Which surprised me. So much for my > powers of observation. Yet, after using "of" all these years, this is the > first time anyone ever told me my use was confusing. Thanks to Axel, and > you Pete, I am now in harmony with the world on this matter. Although > still confused on why it was confusing or which pseudomorph Art Smith > means when he writes about the brookite pseudomorphs at Magnet Cove.... > > And by the way I am more or less on the West Coast (as compared to most of > the USA) and around here we say taxi or cab, whichever pops out, but > probably say taxi more than cab. Of course we also say celestite instead > of celestine, and definitely "say" barite and not baryte! > > Regards, > > Lanny > > > > On Jan 28, 2005, at 9:03 AM, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: >> >> >> >> >> <<<<> language thing >> like the Brits say "taxi" when they need a cab. >> >> Taxi? Cab? Are Americans classed with the "Brit's", too? Taxi is what >> we (or at least I) call them; or cab, that works too. To me, "taxi" is >> the standard word--maybe it's a NY-NJ thing, and the west coast says c >> >> Lanny, glad you got straightened out! Though probably everyone always >> knew what you meant, it is true that saying "quartz pseudomorph of >> apophyllite" could equally well mean "after apophyllite" or, that the >> thing is now composed of apophyllite. >> >> Pete >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Jan 29 11:15:56 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Jan 29 11:06:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Virus on the list! References: Message-ID: <41FBDEB3.2498@Tomaszewski.net> This one appears to always forge addresses Axel, so you are probably the only one that doesn't need to check for an infection. Axel Emmermann wrote: > > Hi Brian, > > must be a new bug since my NAV doesn't know it. I just saw my PC do a "live > update" of the virus definitions so that end is covered. I couldn't find > this BAGEL-AZ virus in the virus encyclopedia on the net. It must be really > brand new then? Still, it has a name already so help must be underway ;-))) > > I don't think I have it but I'll do a full system scan right away. > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens J Bryan Kramer > Verzonden: zaterdag 29 januari 2005 17:40 > Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Virus on the list! > > Someone on the list has the new BAGEL-AZ virus, I just got a copy using > Axel's address. That doesn't mean that Axel is the one however, just that > Axel is in the infected computer's address list. > > Bryan > > -------Original Message----- > --From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > --[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > --Axel Emmermann > --Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 05:30 > --To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > --Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page > -- > -- > --Hi Pete, > -- > -->Paragenesis is a totally proper term in English, that's the term we > -->use, > --for > -->a mineral assemblage. > -- > --Now that's a relief... ;-))))) > --"Assemblage" is another term I should try to remember. > -- > -->I'm surprised it's not in regular dictionaries, but > -->it is a technical term, and only literature from ore deposits and > --mineralogy > -->would likely have it--not necessarily things written for the amateur > -->collector. > -- > --You'd be surprised what huge "technical gaps" there are in > --most dictionaries of most languages. In many cases we just > --make up a new word while we go ;-))) I use the Concise Oxford > --Dictionary CD that was bundled with my L&H translation > --software. Usually it distinguishes clearly between British > --English and NA English. A must-have for me! > -- > -->And no one's knocking your English, Axel (not me, for sure), just > -->making > --any > -->comments about things we don't understand! > -- > --Didn't think so for a minute ;-)))) > -- > -->And now I understand about what > -->you were debating about adamite (and yes, it is uranyl ion > --that causes > -->the fluorescence in it). > -- > --Well, I knew that. But now I heard rumors about yellow > --fluorescing adamite. The daylight color is supposed to be > --white to water clear. It's just a rumor but an interesting > --one (don't remember where it came from). > -- > --Axel From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sat Jan 29 11:25:43 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sat Jan 29 11:16:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page References: <012820051703.28828.41FA7059000C3F310000709C216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <003c01c50638$5568e480$aea4490c@pete> Hi, Lanny, Well, aside from that "everyone normally says", "quartz pseudomorph after apophyllite", and so on, as you suggest, if one said "pseudomorph of apophyllite", it could mean, a pseudomorph now composed of apophyllite, which was a pseudomorph after an original quartz crystal; or, it could mean the reverse; so, it's ambiguous. Ditto of simply saying a "calcite pseudomorph"; I think that's poor usage and very ambiguous, because it could likewise mean either thing; a pseudomorph that is now calcite, or a pseudomorph after calcite. The only time I'd endorse using the shorthand of "calcite pseuodomorph" would be in a discussion or an article had already clearly described the pseudomorphs as being of "mineral X after calcite", and everyone totally would know that this was the only pseuodomorph pair being discussed, and then it would be OK to thereafter casually refer to them as "calcite pseudomorphs". But I don't think this would be considered acceptable writing, say, for an article in either Rocks & Minerals or Mineralogical Record; I'm sure they'd both want to always stick to the formal and unambiguous way of writing it, quartz pseudomorph after calcite. That must be quite enough about that, I might guess! Cheers, Pete But, P.S., Lanny & the List, I'll just add one more comment anyway, on re-reading the rest of your original email, where you said, >> Although still confused on why it was confusing or which pseudomorph Art Smith means when he writes about the brookite pseudomorphs at Magnet Cove.... well, I can explain why it could be confusing, and would always be better to write it out the full way! Because even someone like me, who has not only seen but has been there (once) and collected those little, dark gray, irregular-etched, c-face flattened, bipyramidal or pseudo-bipyramidal crystals, and who thinks "brookite" when I see them, really cannot remember whether they are brookite crystals, or pseudo's of rutile after brookite, or pseudo's of brookite after rutile! [because (a) I don't look at or think about them every day, or every month or even every year necessarily, and (b) my memory just ain't the best!] So, if I read about "brookite pseudomorphs at Magnet Cove", that would just reinforce my confusion, because I truly wouldn't remember whether what Art was talking about, were pseudomorphs composed of, or after, brookite! ...and in fact, I'm still not totally sure. Looking up Brookite in Mike Howard's 1987 Mineral Species of Arkansas (A.G.C. Bulletin 23) as I'm writing this, never mentions anything about pseudomorphs under the Brookite heading (for completeness it would be nice if it did, but it doesn't), and under Rutile it simply mentions rutile being "pseudomorphous after brookite". From this I presume that the little crystals are rutile pseudomorphs after brookite, but I'm still not absolutely certain. Of course, I'm sure I could (and will) find out quickly on the web, via Mindat or just by general searching. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page > Now that you've brought it up again Pete, I'm going to go ahead and > state that I don't see where there would be any confusion. If I was to > say it was a "quartz copy of apophyllite" wouldn't you clearly > understand what I meant? Isn't one mineral forming a pseudomorph of > another just another way of saying it is making a copy of it? Aren't > they using the word "of" in the same way/same meaning? > > As I write this though a thought comes to mind; in referring to a > quartz pseudomorph after calcite, some people say it is a "calcite > pseudomorph." If they do that, then I can see where using "of" would be > confusing. Although I do believe calling such a pseudomorph a calcite > pseudomorph is wrong because it is not clear weather it is calcite > doing the replacing or calcite that is replaced, but that's another > matter. > > From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sat Jan 29 11:37:29 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sat Jan 29 11:27:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page References: <001301c5061b$573fa680$aea4490c@pete> <4193D1BE-7221-11D9-8B32-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <004d01c50639$f92cea20$aea4490c@pete> AHA! Lanny, I'm sorry to point out, you've fallen into another word usage common trap, or so I've always been taught. When we at the USGS took a course on Ore Microscopy given by the (now retired) Dr. Ben Leonard back some years ago, he made a great point of emphasizing the common mis-usage of this term. Paragenetic Sequence is the term for a sequence of minerals in order in which they formed. Paragenesis means the assemblage of minerals found at a given place and time. As mineral growth or alteration takes place, one paragenesis is in turn replaced by another. The whole sequence of changing assemblages is the the "Paragenetic Sequence". These two terms are mis-used all the time; when people draw one of those diagrams with the lines and one axis representing time, that's a paragenetic sequence diagram. You could title it "Paragenetic Sequence Diagram", or "Paragenetic Diagram"--because it shows the sequence of parageneses (plural), or "Mineral Parageneses [plural] at Locality X". But one paragenesis = one association of minerals; several parageneses = a sequence. That are the way they learned it to me! [Axel, please don't emulate that particular sentence of American English usage, in most parts of the county it ain't considered real good grammer.] Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page > Hi Pete, > > I think you confused the main point of paragenesis in how you stated > it, especially the last paragraph. > > Paragenesis is not just the assemblage of minerals or associated > minerals, it is the order in which they are formed, thus it would not > equate to "mineral assemblage" as you state that in the last paragraph. > That was one of the main points of using paragenesis in ore deposits. > As I recall, in the mineral periodicals, that is also how it is most > often used, generally with a little diagram showing the time line. > > Regards, > > Lanny > > > > On Jan 29, 2005, at 7:58 AM, Peter J. Modreski wrote: > > > "Paragenesis" has always tended to be used most in the study of mineral > > assemblages in ore deposits, whereas "mineral assemblage" is more > > commonly > > used in descriptive mineralogy and even in metamorphic petrology. > > > > I'd say that in general descriptive mineralogy, people tend to use the > > simpler term, "association", more. "Associated minerals" simply mean > > that > > they occur together, which may mean that one mineral was deposited > > earlier, > > and others at a later stage. > > > > "Mineral assemblage" properly means that all the minerals grew > > together, > > simultaneous or perhaps sequentially (as when one replaces another), > > but > > usually implies that the minerals formed at something approximating > > equilibrium chemical conditions. Mineral assemblage thus used, > > equates in > > meaning to "paragenesis". I think I've stated this meanings correctly > > here! > > > > Pete > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Axel Emmermann" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors" > > > > Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 3:30 AM > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page > > > > > >> Hi Pete, > >> > >>> Paragenesis is a totally proper term in English, that's the term we > >>> use, > >> for > >>> a mineral assemblage. > >> > >> Now that's a relief... ;-))))) > >> "Assemblage" is another term I should try to remember. > >> > >>> I'm surprised it's not in regular dictionaries, but > >>> it is a technical term, and only literature from ore deposits and > >> mineralogy > >>> would likely have it--not necessarily things written for the amateur > >>> collector. > >> > >> You'd be surprised what huge "technical gaps" there are in most > > dictionaries > >> of most languages. > >> In many cases we just make up a new word while we go ;-))) > >> I use the Concise Oxford Dictionary CD that was bundled with my L&H > >> translation software. Usually it distinguishes clearly between British > >> English and NA English. A must-have for me! > >> > >>> And no one's knocking your English, Axel (not me, for sure), just > >>> making > >> any > >>> comments about things we don't understand! > >> > >> Didn't think so for a minute ;-)))) > >> > >>> And now I understand about what > >>> you were debating about adamite (and yes, it is uranyl ion that > >>> causes > > the > >>> fluorescence in it). > >> > >> Well, I knew that. But now I heard rumors about yellow fluorescing > > adamite. > >> The daylight color is supposed to be white to water clear. It's just a > > rumor > >> but an interesting one (don't remember where it came from). > >> > >> Axel > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sat Jan 29 13:18:55 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sat Jan 29 13:18:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] cyanotrichite vs chalcoalumite Message-ID: <009101c50648$23c80450$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I've been going through my collection photographing specimens. One was a trade and the label indicates its chalcoalumite on malachite from the Sacramento Pit, Bisbee, Arizona. When I look at this mineral on mindat, photos show it has a crystal habit like cyanotrichite, but with a greenish tinge. This is a bright, light blue. Does anyone have similar specimens from this locality that I can compare photos with? It looks more like cyanotrichite. Alan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From danielz at acmenet.net Sat Jan 29 14:12:27 2005 From: danielz at acmenet.net (Dan Z) Date: Sat Jan 29 14:12:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] cyanotrichite vs chalcoalumite References: <009101c50648$23c80450$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <000301c5064f$9e51ef40$6401a8c0@M1Garand> Hi Alan, 460K picture at http://www.manyfacets.com/chalcoal.jpg. This is a 4 inch specimen labeled "Grand Reef Mine, Grand Canyon, AZ." Definitely light blue, looks almost botryoidal. Reminds me of the pale blue crusts of hemimorphite from Mexico, but not as glossy. -dan z- - - Protect your civil rights! Let the politicians know how you feel. Join or donate to the NRA today! http://membership.nrahq.org/default.asp?campaignid=XR014887 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Goldstein" To: Sent: 01/29/2005 4:18 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] cyanotrichite vs chalcoalumite I've been going through my collection photographing specimens. One was a trade and the label indicates its chalcoalumite on malachite from the Sacramento Pit, Bisbee, Arizona. When I look at this mineral on mindat, photos show it has a crystal habit like cyanotrichite, but with a greenish tinge. This is a bright, light blue. Does anyone have similar specimens from this locality that I can compare photos with? It looks more like cyanotrichite. Alan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Sat Jan 29 14:45:05 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Sat Jan 29 14:35:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] cyanotrichite vs chalcoalumite References: <009101c50648$23c80450$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <006501c50654$2e1b7ca0$aea4490c@pete> And my experience is that chalcoalumite tends to be in clusters that are rounded, as Dan Z says, almost botryoidal, and pale blue; whereas cyanotrichite is very acicular clusters and deeper blue. I looked at the chalcoalumite picture (from Bisbee) in the original Encyclopedia of Minerals, and it fits my expectation, bluish-white, slightly spikey "globs". Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Goldstein" To: Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 2:18 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] cyanotrichite vs chalcoalumite I've been going through my collection photographing specimens. One was a trade and the label indicates its chalcoalumite on malachite from the Sacramento Pit, Bisbee, Arizona. When I look at this mineral on mindat, photos show it has a crystal habit like cyanotrichite, but with a greenish tinge. This is a bright, light blue. Does anyone have similar specimens from this locality that I can compare photos with? It looks more like cyanotrichite. Alan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sat Jan 29 14:36:24 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sat Jan 29 14:36:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] cyanotrichite vs chalcoalumite References: <009101c50648$23c80450$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> <000301c5064f$9e51ef40$6401a8c0@M1Garand> Message-ID: <009e01c50652$f6e75d90$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> It doesn't look anything like that. The sprays look like velvet from a distance, but show distinct xls in the scope. They are also much brighter blue. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Z" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 5:12 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] cyanotrichite vs chalcoalumite > Hi Alan, > > 460K picture at http://www.manyfacets.com/chalcoal.jpg. This is a 4 inch > specimen labeled "Grand Reef Mine, Grand Canyon, AZ." Definitely light > blue, > looks almost botryoidal. Reminds me of the pale blue crusts of > hemimorphite > from Mexico, but not as glossy. > > -dan z- > > - - > Protect your civil rights! > Let the politicians know how you feel. > Join or donate to the NRA today! > http://membership.nrahq.org/default.asp?campaignid=XR014887 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alan Goldstein" > To: > Sent: 01/29/2005 4:18 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] cyanotrichite vs chalcoalumite > > > I've been going through my collection photographing specimens. One was a > trade and the label indicates its chalcoalumite on malachite from the > Sacramento Pit, Bisbee, Arizona. When I look at this mineral on mindat, > photos show it has a crystal habit like cyanotrichite, but with a greenish > tinge. This is a bright, light blue. Does anyone have similar specimens > from > this locality that I can compare photos with? It looks more like > cyanotrichite. > > Alan > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From lanny at lrream.com Sat Jan 29 14:38:56 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sat Jan 29 14:36:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page In-Reply-To: <004d01c50639$f92cea20$aea4490c@pete> References: <001301c5061b$573fa680$aea4490c@pete> <4193D1BE-7221-11D9-8B32-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <004d01c50639$f92cea20$aea4490c@pete> Message-ID: <8F5FDD36-7246-11D9-8B32-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Aha! Pete you are right. I can't believe that after so many years of not actually using those terms much has let my brain turn to mush on the subject. But that is correct, paragenetic sequence is what I was taught in all those mineral exploration classes so many centuries ago (ok maybe not that long ago, but it has been more than a couple decades, and quite a while since I left mineral exploration and mining too). "Paragenetic sequence" just sort of found a hiding place in all those synapses and wouldn't come forward. Out of curiosity, I searched a bunch of dictionaries online, and and came up with the following definition most often for paragenesis, so apparently much of the English language world is also wrong: "The order in which a formation of associated minerals is generated" This or something similar was also in the geologic dictionaries at various university and other web sites, which I've noticed in the past are often too generalized or wrong. Further searching showed that it was also commonly misused in the Min. Rec. Fabulous, a vocabularly lesson for the day! I just don't get to associate with geologists and mineralogists often enough any more! Regards, Lanny On Jan 29, 2005, at 11:37 AM, Peter J. Modreski wrote: > AHA! Lanny, I'm sorry to point out, you've fallen into another word > usage > common trap, or so I've always been taught. > > When we at the USGS took a course on Ore Microscopy given by the (now > retired) Dr. Ben Leonard back some years ago, he made a great point of > emphasizing the common mis-usage of this term. > > Paragenetic Sequence is the term for a sequence of minerals in order in > which they formed. > > Paragenesis means the assemblage of minerals found at a given place and > time. > > As mineral growth or alteration takes place, one paragenesis is in turn > replaced by another. The whole sequence of changing assemblages is > the the > "Paragenetic Sequence". > > These two terms are mis-used all the time; when people draw one of > those > diagrams with the lines and one axis representing time, that's a > paragenetic > sequence diagram. You could title it "Paragenetic Sequence Diagram", > or > "Paragenetic Diagram"--because it shows the sequence of parageneses > (plural), or "Mineral Parageneses [plural] at Locality X". But one > paragenesis = one association of minerals; several parageneses = a > sequence. > > That are the way they learned it to me! > > [Axel, please don't emulate that particular sentence of American > English > usage, in most parts of the county it ain't considered real good > grammer.] > > Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lanny" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > > Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 11:11 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page > > >> Hi Pete, >> >> I think you confused the main point of paragenesis in how you stated >> it, especially the last paragraph. >> >> Paragenesis is not just the assemblage of minerals or associated >> minerals, it is the order in which they are formed, thus it would not >> equate to "mineral assemblage" as you state that in the last >> paragraph. >> That was one of the main points of using paragenesis in ore deposits. >> As I recall, in the mineral periodicals, that is also how it is most >> often used, generally with a little diagram showing the time line. >> >> Regards, >> >> Lanny >> >> >> >> On Jan 29, 2005, at 7:58 AM, Peter J. Modreski wrote: >> >>> "Paragenesis" has always tended to be used most in the study of >>> mineral >>> assemblages in ore deposits, whereas "mineral assemblage" is more >>> commonly >>> used in descriptive mineralogy and even in metamorphic petrology. >>> >>> I'd say that in general descriptive mineralogy, people tend to use >>> the >>> simpler term, "association", more. "Associated minerals" simply mean >>> that >>> they occur together, which may mean that one mineral was deposited >>> earlier, >>> and others at a later stage. >>> >>> "Mineral assemblage" properly means that all the minerals grew >>> together, >>> simultaneous or perhaps sequentially (as when one replaces another), >>> but >>> usually implies that the minerals formed at something approximating >>> equilibrium chemical conditions. Mineral assemblage thus used, >>> equates in >>> meaning to "paragenesis". I think I've stated this meanings >>> correctly >>> here! >>> >>> Pete >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Axel Emmermann" >>> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>> collectors" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 3:30 AM >>> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page >>> >>> >>>> Hi Pete, >>>> >>>>> Paragenesis is a totally proper term in English, that's the term we >>>>> use, >>>> for >>>>> a mineral assemblage. >>>> >>>> Now that's a relief... ;-))))) >>>> "Assemblage" is another term I should try to remember. >>>> >>>>> I'm surprised it's not in regular dictionaries, but >>>>> it is a technical term, and only literature from ore deposits and >>>> mineralogy >>>>> would likely have it--not necessarily things written for the >>>>> amateur >>>>> collector. >>>> >>>> You'd be surprised what huge "technical gaps" there are in most >>> dictionaries >>>> of most languages. >>>> In many cases we just make up a new word while we go ;-))) >>>> I use the Concise Oxford Dictionary CD that was bundled with my L&H >>>> translation software. Usually it distinguishes clearly between >>>> British >>>> English and NA English. A must-have for me! >>>> >>>>> And no one's knocking your English, Axel (not me, for sure), just >>>>> making >>>> any >>>>> comments about things we don't understand! >>>> >>>> Didn't think so for a minute ;-)))) >>>> >>>>> And now I understand about what >>>>> you were debating about adamite (and yes, it is uranyl ion that >>>>> causes >>> the >>>>> fluorescence in it). >>>> >>>> Well, I knew that. But now I heard rumors about yellow fluorescing >>> adamite. >>>> The daylight color is supposed to be white to water clear. It's >>>> just a >>> rumor >>>> but an interesting one (don't remember where it came from). >>>> >>>> Axel >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>>> Subscription Services: >>>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- From silverado at frontiernet.net Sat Jan 29 13:18:19 2005 From: silverado at frontiernet.net (Gail) Date: Sat Jan 29 14:48:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) Message-ID: <001d01c50648$0fce08a0$23fa8b43@gail7diqufk9xy> Can anyone help me find a 4 x 12 bullwheel, expanding drum sander. It was manufactured by Rocks. Thanks. C.A.Kling --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From k.conroy at worldnet.att.net Sat Jan 29 15:35:16 2005 From: k.conroy at worldnet.att.net (Kevin Conroy) Date: Sat Jan 29 15:33:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] cyanotrichite vs chalcoalumite - plus AD (sort of) References: <009101c50648$23c80450$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose><000301c5064f$9e51ef40$6401a8c0@M1Garand> <009e01c50652$f6e75d90$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <006d01c5065b$30cda020$71904a0c@kcmins> Hi Alan! As it turns out I just completed a new webpage featuring Arizona minerals. A cyanotrichite and a chalcoalumite are both pictured, but these are from the Grand View Mine. I've had chalcoalumite specimens from Bisbee, and they've all looked like the one from Grand View Mine. You can see my specimens at: http://www.kcminerals.com/arizona.htm I suspect what you have is "bisbeeite". It's a discredited species, reportedly being a mix of chrysocolla and plancheite. It's found in several of the mines around Bisbee. All the best, Kevin www.kcminerals.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Goldstein" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 4:36 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] cyanotrichite vs chalcoalumite > It doesn't look anything like that. The sprays look like velvet from a > distance, but show distinct xls in the scope. They are also much brighter > blue. > > Alan From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Jan 30 07:33:23 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Jan 30 07:33:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Virus on the list! In-Reply-To: <41FBDEB3.2498@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Not even when my own e-address is in my addressbook.wab? Otherwise I'm an hygienic guy... I had lots of soapstone lying around ;-))) Cheers Aaron Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski Verzonden: zaterdag 29 januari 2005 20:16 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Virus on the list! This one appears to always forge addresses Axel, so you are probably the only one that doesn't need to check for an infection. Axel Emmermann wrote: > > Hi Brian, > > must be a new bug since my NAV doesn't know it. I just saw my PC do a "live > update" of the virus definitions so that end is covered. I couldn't find > this BAGEL-AZ virus in the virus encyclopedia on the net. It must be really > brand new then? Still, it has a name already so help must be underway ;-))) > > I don't think I have it but I'll do a full system scan right away. > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens J Bryan Kramer > Verzonden: zaterdag 29 januari 2005 17:40 > Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Virus on the list! > > Someone on the list has the new BAGEL-AZ virus, I just got a copy using > Axel's address. That doesn't mean that Axel is the one however, just that > Axel is in the infected computer's address list. > > Bryan > > -------Original Message----- > --From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > --[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > --Axel Emmermann > --Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 05:30 > --To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > --Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page > -- > -- > --Hi Pete, > -- > -->Paragenesis is a totally proper term in English, that's the term we > -->use, > --for > -->a mineral assemblage. > -- > --Now that's a relief... ;-))))) > --"Assemblage" is another term I should try to remember. > -- > -->I'm surprised it's not in regular dictionaries, but > -->it is a technical term, and only literature from ore deposits and > --mineralogy > -->would likely have it--not necessarily things written for the amateur > -->collector. > -- > --You'd be surprised what huge "technical gaps" there are in > --most dictionaries of most languages. In many cases we just > --make up a new word while we go ;-))) I use the Concise Oxford > --Dictionary CD that was bundled with my L&H translation > --software. Usually it distinguishes clearly between British > --English and NA English. A must-have for me! > -- > -->And no one's knocking your English, Axel (not me, for sure), just > -->making > --any > -->comments about things we don't understand! > -- > --Didn't think so for a minute ;-)))) > -- > -->And now I understand about what > -->you were debating about adamite (and yes, it is uranyl ion > --that causes > -->the fluorescence in it). > -- > --Well, I knew that. But now I heard rumors about yellow > --fluorescing adamite. The daylight color is supposed to be > --white to water clear. It's just a rumor but an interesting > --one (don't remember where it came from). > -- > --Axel _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Jan 30 07:48:56 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Jan 30 07:48:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Virus on the list! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>Otherwise I'm an hygienic guy... Just to say: "I'm clean" ;-)))) Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Axel Emmermann Verzonden: zondag 30 januari 2005 16:33 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Virus on the list! Not even when my own e-address is in my addressbook.wab? Otherwise I'm an hygienic guy... I had lots of soapstone lying around ;-))) Cheers Aaron Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski Verzonden: zaterdag 29 januari 2005 20:16 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Virus on the list! This one appears to always forge addresses Axel, so you are probably the only one that doesn't need to check for an infection. Axel Emmermann wrote: > > Hi Brian, > > must be a new bug since my NAV doesn't know it. I just saw my PC do a "live > update" of the virus definitions so that end is covered. I couldn't find > this BAGEL-AZ virus in the virus encyclopedia on the net. It must be really > brand new then? Still, it has a name already so help must be underway ;-))) > > I don't think I have it but I'll do a full system scan right away. > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens J Bryan Kramer > Verzonden: zaterdag 29 januari 2005 17:40 > Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Virus on the list! > > Someone on the list has the new BAGEL-AZ virus, I just got a copy using > Axel's address. That doesn't mean that Axel is the one however, just that > Axel is in the infected computer's address list. > > Bryan > > -------Original Message----- > --From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > --[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > --Axel Emmermann > --Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 05:30 > --To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > --Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page > -- > -- > --Hi Pete, > -- > -->Paragenesis is a totally proper term in English, that's the term we > -->use, > --for > -->a mineral assemblage. > -- > --Now that's a relief... ;-))))) > --"Assemblage" is another term I should try to remember. > -- > -->I'm surprised it's not in regular dictionaries, but > -->it is a technical term, and only literature from ore deposits and > --mineralogy > -->would likely have it--not necessarily things written for the amateur > -->collector. > -- > --You'd be surprised what huge "technical gaps" there are in > --most dictionaries of most languages. In many cases we just > --make up a new word while we go ;-))) I use the Concise Oxford > --Dictionary CD that was bundled with my L&H translation > --software. Usually it distinguishes clearly between British > --English and NA English. A must-have for me! > -- > -->And no one's knocking your English, Axel (not me, for sure), just > -->making > --any > -->comments about things we don't understand! > -- > --Didn't think so for a minute ;-)))) > -- > -->And now I understand about what > -->you were debating about adamite (and yes, it is uranyl ion > --that causes > -->the fluorescence in it). > -- > --Well, I knew that. But now I heard rumors about yellow > --fluorescing adamite. The daylight color is supposed to be > --white to water clear. It's just a rumor but an interesting > --one (don't remember where it came from). > -- > --Axel _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pnielsen at keene.edu Sun Jan 30 14:05:25 2005 From: pnielsen at keene.edu (Nielsen, Peter) Date: Sun Jan 30 14:07:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [AD] Dealer Special - Betafite: rare, ugly, radioactive Message-ID: RGFuIC0gSSBoYXZlIHRyaWVkIHNldmVyYWwgdGltZXMgdG8gYWNjZXNzIHRoZSBwaWNzLCBidXQg a2VlcCBiZWluZyB0b2xkIHRoZSBzaXRlIGRvZXMgbm90IGV4aXN0LiAgSSB0ZWFjaCBtaW5lcmFs b2d5IChhbmQgc2V2ZXJhbCBvdGhlIGNvdXJzZXMgYXQgS2VlbmUgU3RhdGUgQ29sbGVnZSBpbiBL ZWVuZSwgTkgsIGFuZCBhbSBpbnRlcmVzdGVkLCBidXQgd291bGQgbGlrZSB0byBzZWUgdGhlIHBp Y3MuDQogDQpQZXRlIE5pZWxzZW4NClByb2YuIGFuZCBDaGFpcg0KRGVwYXJ0bWVudCBvZiBHZW9s b2d5DQpLZWVuZSBTdGF0ZSBDb2xsZWdlDQpLZWVuZSwgTkggMDM0MzUtMjAwMQ0KDQoJLS0tLS1P cmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0gDQoJRnJvbTogRGFuIFogW21haWx0bzpkYW5pZWx6QGFjbWVu ZXQubmV0XSANCglTZW50OiBGcmkgMS8yOC8yMDA1IDU6NDkgUE0gDQoJVG86IFJvY2tob3VuZCBs aXN0IGRhbmllbHogZnJtOyBSb2Nrcy1Gb3NzaWxzIGxpc3QgKHRvcGljYSkgDQoJQ2M6IA0KCVN1 YmplY3Q6IFtSb2NraG91bmRzXSBbQURdIERlYWxlciBTcGVjaWFsIC0gQmV0YWZpdGU6IHJhcmUs IHVnbHksIHJhZGlvYWN0aXZlDQoJDQoJDQoNCglUaGUgYmFyZ2FpbiBvZiBhIGxpZmV0aW1lIC0g YSBncm91cCBvZiBpbmRpdmlkdWFsIGJldGFmaXRlIGNyeXN0YWxzIGFuZA0KCXNldmVyYWwgc21h bGwgY2x1c3RlcnMuIFRoaXMgaXMgYSB2ZXJ5IHJhcmUgbWluZXJhbCwgcmFkaW9hY3RpdmUgKHVy YW5pdW0NCglhbmQgbmlvYml1bSBhcmUgdHdvIG9mIGl0cyBlbGVtZW50cyksIGFuZCBzdXBlcmJs eSB1Z2x5LiBBcyBmdXJ0aGVyDQoJaW5kaWNhdGlvbiBvZiBpdHMgc2NhcmNpdHksIGl0IGFsc28g Y29udGFpbnMgdGl0YW5pdW0gYW5kIHRhbnR1bHVtLiBBbmQgaXQncw0KCXdvcnRoIGEgbG90ISBU aGUgMTk4MyAiU3RhbmRhcmQgTWluZXJhbG9naWNhbCBDYXRhbG9nIiBnYXZlIGEgcHJpY2UgcmFu Z2Ugb2YNCgkkNC4yMCB0byAkMjkuNTAgRUFDSCBmb3IgYXZlcmFnZSBzcGVjaW1lbnMgb2YgdGhl IHNpemVzIHVuZGVyIDEvMi1pbmNoIGFuZA0KCXVuZGVyIHR3byBpbmNoZXMuIFRoZSBwcmljZSBm b3IgaGlnaGVyIHF1YWxpdHkgd2FzICQ4IGFuZCAkNTAgZWFjaC4gQW5kIHRoYXQNCgl3YXMgMTk4 MyENCgkNCglJIGhhdmUgcG9zdGVkIGEgNTUwSyBwaWN0dXJlIGF0IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWFueWZh Y2V0cy9jb20vYmV0YWZpdGUuanBnIC4gSQ0KCWNhbiBlbWFpbCB5b3UgdGhlIDIgbWVnYWJ5dGUg cGljdHVyZSBpZiBkZXNpcmVkLiBBcyB5b3UgY2FuIHNlZSwgdGhlcmUgYXJlDQoJYWJvdXQgMzUg Y3J5c3RhbHMgYW5kIGNyeXN0YWwgZ3JvdXBzLiBUaGUgbGFyZ2VzdCBpbmRpdmlkdWFsIGNyeXN0 YWwgaXMNCglhYm91dCAxLTMvNCBpbmNoIChsb3dlciBsZWZ0KSwgdGhlIDE5ODMgJDMwLSQ1MCBz aXplLiBUaGUgdHJheSB0aGV5IGFyZSBpbg0KCWlzIDExIGluY2ggYnkgNiBpbmNoLg0KCQ0KCVBy aWNlIGZvciBhbGw6ICQxMDAsIG11Y2ggbGVzcyB0aGFuIHRoZSAxOTgzIHByaWNlIGZvciB0aGF0 IG51bWJlciBvZiBqdXN0DQoJYXZlcmFnZSwgc21hbGxlc3QgcGllY2VzIQ0KCQ0KCVNoaXBwaW5n L2hhbmRsaW5nIChQcmlvcml0eSBPbmUgbWFpbCksICQ2LjUwLg0KCQ0KCUZvcm11bGE6IChDYSxO YSxVKShUaSxOYixUYSkyTzYoT0gpICBUaGUgdHdvIGFuZCB0aGUgc2l4IGFyZSBzdWJzY3JpcHRz Lg0KCQ0KCS1kYW4gei0NCglNYW55IEZhY2V0cw0KCQ0KCV9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQoJUm9ja2hvdW5kc0Bkcml6emxlIE1haWxpbmcgTGlz dA0KCVdXVzogaHR0cDovL3d3dy5kcml6emxlLmNvbS9+YWZveC9yb2NraG91bmRzDQoJU3Vic2Ny aXB0aW9uIFNlcnZpY2VzOg0KCWh0dHA6Ly9saXN0cy5kcml6emxlLmNvbS9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3Rp bmZvL3JvY2tob3VuZHMNCgkNCg0K --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) application/ms-tnef --- From bobl at peaktopeak.com Sun Jan 30 22:20:03 2005 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Sun Jan 30 22:18:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [AD] Dealer Special - Betafite: rare, ugly, radioactive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Peter, There was a typo in the address. It should be http://www.manyfacets.com/betafite.jpg Regards, Bob Loeffler Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) http://www.peaktopeak.com/njeffco/index.php Dealer Chairman and Webmaster Denver Gem and Mineral Show http://www.denvermineralshow.com Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: http://www.peaktopeak.com/colorado/index.php -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Nielsen, Peter Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 3:05 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] [AD] Dealer Special - Betafite: rare, ugly,radioactive Dan - I have tried several times to access the pics, but keep being told the site does not exist. I teach mineralogy (and several othe courses at Keene State College in Keene, NH, and am interested, but would like to see the pics. Pete Nielsen Prof. and Chair Department of Geology Keene State College Keene, NH 03435-2001 -----Original Message----- From: Dan Z [mailto:danielz@acmenet.net] Sent: Fri 1/28/2005 5:49 PM To: Rockhound list danielz frm; Rocks-Fossils list (topica) Cc: Subject: [Rockhounds] [AD] Dealer Special - Betafite: rare, ugly, radioactive The bargain of a lifetime - a group of individual betafite crystals and several small clusters. This is a very rare mineral, radioactive (uranium and niobium are two of its elements), and superbly ugly. As further indication of its scarcity, it also contains titanium and tantulum. And it's worth a lot! The 1983 "Standard Mineralogical Catalog" gave a price range of $4.20 to $29.50 EACH for average specimens of the sizes under 1/2-inch and under two inches. The price for higher quality was $8 and $50 each. And that was 1983! I have posted a 550K picture at http://www.manyfacets/com/betafite.jpg . I can email you the 2 megabyte picture if desired. As you can see, there are about 35 crystals and crystal groups. The largest individual crystal is about 1-3/4 inch (lower left), the 1983 $30-$50 size. The tray they are in is 11 inch by 6 inch. Price for all: $100, much less than the 1983 price for that number of just average, smallest pieces! Shipping/handling (Priority One mail), $6.50. Formula: (Ca,Na,U)(Ti,Nb,Ta)2O6(OH) The two and the six are subscripts. -dan z- Many Facets _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds J ?yi ?0k?*Z m Z{^ w) Xj?w From dhawk at EcologyFund.net Sun Jan 30 23:07:31 2005 From: dhawk at EcologyFund.net (the other angus) Date: Sun Jan 30 23:07:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] hey anyone know the site for? Message-ID: <20050131070732.454E63968@sitemail.everyone.net> I am looking for the site of the tuscan rock and gem show anyone know what it is? Email me back please at kilted_swede@yahoo.ca Thanks DArren   ------------------------------------------ Conserve wilderness with a click (free!) and get your own EcologyFund.net email (free!) at http://www.ecologyfund.com. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jan 31 02:53:44 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jan 31 02:53:39 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph drifting towards fluorescence In-Reply-To: <004d01c50639$f92cea20$aea4490c@pete> Message-ID: >>[Axel, please don't emulate that particular sentence of American English >>usage, in most parts of the county it ain't considered real good grammer.] Dawn't worry Pete! Ain't no hair on my bawld head contemplating no bad use of your beejutiful language! Belgians from my generation... you have no idea how much "slang" we picked up from American series that followed in the wake of the Marshall plan. ;-)))) Ripcord, The Dick Powell Show, The Invaders, Payton Place, Bonanza, Rawhide, Dennis the Menace, Margie, Batman, Lucille Ball, the Monkeys.... you name it, I saw it. We even have a word to describe the people who feel that the American and West-European cultures are the same and that our fates are eternally linked together: "Atlantists". Former Belgian UN Secretary General, Willy Claes, is one of their greatest advocates. (Yes Kitty, Hawaii five-O too and Jake and The Fat man and Magnum but that doesn't make us "Pacifists" ;-))) The first car in our street was the Chevrolet Impala of our local butcher (followed by: Buick, Studebaker, Buick and suddenly it was all European cars like Volkswagen, Citro?n, Peugeot and Opel. No really, you have no idea how deeply your culture affected ours. Anyway, I spoke a decent mouthful of English (with a Bronx-Texan-West Coast kind of cross-bread accent) before I got my first English lesson. Finally and on topic about pseudomorphs: I recently acquired a specimen that was labeled: Dolomite pseudomorph after halite, Fortuna Murcia, Spain. It's a single crystal of a few centimeters. Since halite forms cubic crystals, one would expect a mineral that's replacing it would retain this habit. The crystal is however rhombohedral just like dolomite. Is that possible? I would almost suspect it to be halite after dolomite rather than vice versa. Easily tested of course, but it is such a rare fluorescent specimen that I hesitate to take a sample from it. Also funny about this specimen: the crystal fluoresces (LW & SW) yellow-orange only at the edges. So basically you see only 6 parallelograms when you view the crystal under a well filtered UV-lamp. Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Peter J. Modreski Verzonden: zaterdag 29 januari 2005 20:37 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page AHA! Lanny, I'm sorry to point out, you've fallen into another word usage common trap, or so I've always been taught. When we at the USGS took a course on Ore Microscopy given by the (now retired) Dr. Ben Leonard back some years ago, he made a great point of emphasizing the common mis-usage of this term. Paragenetic Sequence is the term for a sequence of minerals in order in which they formed. Paragenesis means the assemblage of minerals found at a given place and time. As mineral growth or alteration takes place, one paragenesis is in turn replaced by another. The whole sequence of changing assemblages is the the "Paragenetic Sequence". These two terms are mis-used all the time; when people draw one of those diagrams with the lines and one axis representing time, that's a paragenetic sequence diagram. You could title it "Paragenetic Sequence Diagram", or "Paragenetic Diagram"--because it shows the sequence of parageneses (plural), or "Mineral Parageneses [plural] at Locality X". But one paragenesis = one association of minerals; several parageneses = a sequence. That are the way they learned it to me! [Axel, please don't emulate that particular sentence of American English usage, in most parts of the county it ain't considered real good grammer.] Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page > Hi Pete, > > I think you confused the main point of paragenesis in how you stated > it, especially the last paragraph. > > Paragenesis is not just the assemblage of minerals or associated > minerals, it is the order in which they are formed, thus it would not > equate to "mineral assemblage" as you state that in the last paragraph. > That was one of the main points of using paragenesis in ore deposits. > As I recall, in the mineral periodicals, that is also how it is most > often used, generally with a little diagram showing the time line. > > Regards, > > Lanny > > > > On Jan 29, 2005, at 7:58 AM, Peter J. Modreski wrote: > > > "Paragenesis" has always tended to be used most in the study of mineral > > assemblages in ore deposits, whereas "mineral assemblage" is more > > commonly > > used in descriptive mineralogy and even in metamorphic petrology. > > > > I'd say that in general descriptive mineralogy, people tend to use the > > simpler term, "association", more. "Associated minerals" simply mean > > that > > they occur together, which may mean that one mineral was deposited > > earlier, > > and others at a later stage. > > > > "Mineral assemblage" properly means that all the minerals grew > > together, > > simultaneous or perhaps sequentially (as when one replaces another), > > but > > usually implies that the minerals formed at something approximating > > equilibrium chemical conditions. Mineral assemblage thus used, > > equates in > > meaning to "paragenesis". I think I've stated this meanings correctly > > here! > > > > Pete > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Axel Emmermann" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors" > > > > Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 3:30 AM > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph page > > > > > >> Hi Pete, > >> > >>> Paragenesis is a totally proper term in English, that's the term we > >>> use, > >> for > >>> a mineral assemblage. > >> > >> Now that's a relief... ;-))))) > >> "Assemblage" is another term I should try to remember. > >> > >>> I'm surprised it's not in regular dictionaries, but > >>> it is a technical term, and only literature from ore deposits and > >> mineralogy > >>> would likely have it--not necessarily things written for the amateur > >>> collector. > >> > >> You'd be surprised what huge "technical gaps" there are in most > > dictionaries > >> of most languages. > >> In many cases we just make up a new word while we go ;-))) > >> I use the Concise Oxford Dictionary CD that was bundled with my L&H > >> translation software. Usually it distinguishes clearly between British > >> English and NA English. A must-have for me! > >> > >>> And no one's knocking your English, Axel (not me, for sure), just > >>> making > >> any > >>> comments about things we don't understand! > >> > >> Didn't think so for a minute ;-)))) > >> > >>> And now I understand about what > >>> you were debating about adamite (and yes, it is uranyl ion that > >>> causes > > the > >>> fluorescence in it). > >> > >> Well, I knew that. But now I heard rumors about yellow fluorescing > > adamite. > >> The daylight color is supposed to be white to water clear. It's just a > > rumor > >> but an interesting one (don't remember where it came from). > >> > >> Axel > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From CECorrigan at aol.com Mon Jan 31 07:04:36 2005 From: CECorrigan at aol.com (CECorrigan@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 31 07:04:47 2005 Subject: Hydnoceras {was:Re: [Rockhounds] [AD] Dealer Special - Betafite: rare, ug... Message-ID: Hi..Imight be able to find that sponge..i think i have seen that in a New York Quarry..i could find out for you..i think it was in the Walworth Quarry...Christopher --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov Mon Jan 31 07:44:14 2005 From: rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov (Richard Trapp) Date: Mon Jan 31 07:44:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] hey anyone know the site for? In-Reply-To: <20050131070732.454E63968@sitemail.everyone.net> References: <20050131070732.454E63968@sitemail.everyone.net> Message-ID: <41FE524E.9050507@azgs.az.gov> for Tucson (you didn't really mean Tuscany in Italy, right?) rock and gem shows http://www.tucsonshowguide.com/tsg/ If you are looking for the Tucson Gem and Mineral Show, presented in its 51st consecutive year by the Tucson Gem and Mineral Society February 10-13, 2005, that would be http://www.tgms.org/ the other angus wrote: >I am looking for the site of the tuscan rock and gem show anyone know what it is? > >Email me back please at kilted_swede@yahoo.ca > > >Thanks > > >DArren > >  > >------------------------------------------ >Conserve wilderness with a click (free!) and get your own EcologyFund.net email (free!) at http://www.ecologyfund.com. > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >text/html (html body -- converted) >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > -- Rick Trapp Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Mon Jan 31 07:57:24 2005 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 31 07:57:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] hey anyone know the site for? Message-ID: <1AF6CB38.0B1040C2.02180873@aol.com> This is the best one I have found http://www.tucsonshowguide.com/tsg/ Gene Hartstein Newark, DE In a message dated 1/31/2005 2:07:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, the other angus writes: >I am looking for the site of the tuscan rock and gem show anyone know what it is? > >Email me back please at kilted_swede@yahoo.ca > > >Thanks > > >DArren > > > >------------------------------------------ >Conserve wilderness with a click (free!) and get your own EcologyFund.net email (free!) at http://www.ecologyfund.com. > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >text/html (html body -- converted) >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From corundogs at charter.net Mon Jan 31 08:23:59 2005 From: corundogs at charter.net (CorunDogs) Date: Mon Jan 31 08:23:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] How do you catalogue your stuff???? Message-ID: <009801c507b1$46e81d70$ea8da842@dit03r92qai5fx> OK, I have a very important question for you :-) We have over 3,000 corundum specimens (and adding daily it seems!!) that we would like to catalogue into a spreadsheet that can be sorted by the various columns - locality, dealer received from, cost, value, where it is currently, description, etc. We would like to put it together with a column that includes a picture of each specimen as well. Will would like it to be able to be printed out in 5x8 size to keep in a box. >From what I have seen, Microsoft Office is our best bet - it has Excel and some of the other programs that are included that I think would be useful in putting this together. However, I could be very wrong. Maybe there is a much better program that would be more useful in what we are trying to accomplish. I hope that there is someone (or two or three or.....hehe!) who has some experience with this and can steer me in the right direction. I have promised Will I can figure it out....and have spoken with a couple of accounting people (that was my previous job before I got sick!) and they have told me that Excel is still the best program for what I am trying to do. However, I used Excel over a decade ago, and I just don't know if that is still the best out there - or at least for what we are wanting. If you don't want to respond on list - is this off-topic for the list?? - you can email me privately at corundogs@charter.net THANK YOU IN ADVANCE for any help or directions you can give me!!!! Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, Nebraska Dedicated to helping abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a person.....to a Rescue Dog, you are the World!!! www.nationwidebostonrescue.org www.corunduminium.com - Ask me about The Corundum Project --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Mon Jan 31 09:09:22 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Jan 31 09:09:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] How do you catalogue your stuff???? In-Reply-To: <009801c507b1$46e81d70$ea8da842@dit03r92qai5fx> References: <009801c507b1$46e81d70$ea8da842@dit03r92qai5fx> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20050131084841.02ed40f8@mail.spiritone.com> You can only do this in MS Access or similar database software; there is no way that I know of to link a picture to a record in Excel except through hyperlinks and that is messy, to say the least. You will eventually want one-to-many relationships in your database anyway (unless you enjoy want to copy-and-pasting a locality name, mineral name, etc. an infinite number of times) so you might as well start it off the right way instead of trying to convert it later. Many people on this list have mineral databases already set up in Access; I would suggest that you purchase MS Office Pro (with Access; the home edition does NOT have Access) if you really want to go this route. Then ask the list for a sample database that includes pictures; that is much, much easier than trying to set up your own database in Access. There is probably freebie or shareware database software out there that will also do what you want; try tucows.com for a reasonably complete list of cheap database packages. I personally wouldn't mess with the above and would use software already set up for mineral collections; for an example of pre-configured database software for mineral collectors, take a look at http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/gaim/drc.htm At 08:23 AM 1/31/2005, you wrote: >OK, I have a very important question for you :-) > >We have over 3,000 corundum specimens (and adding daily it seems!!) that >we would like to catalogue into a spreadsheet that can be sorted by the >various columns - locality, dealer received from, cost, value, where it is >currently, description, etc. We would like to put it together with a >column that includes a picture of each specimen as well. Will would like >it to be able to be printed out in 5x8 size to keep in a box. > > >From what I have seen, Microsoft Office is our best bet - it has Excel > and some of the other programs that are included that I think would be > useful in putting this together. > >However, I could be very wrong. Maybe there is a much better program that >would be more useful in what we are trying to accomplish. > >I hope that there is someone (or two or three or.....hehe!) who has some >experience with this and can steer me in the right direction. I have >promised Will I can figure it out....and have spoken with a couple of >accounting people (that was my previous job before I got sick!) and they >have told me that Excel is still the best program for what I am trying to >do. However, I used Excel over a decade ago, and I just don't know if >that is still the best out there - or at least for what we are wanting. > >If you don't want to respond on list - is this off-topic for the list?? - >you can email me privately at corundogs@charter.net > >THANK YOU IN ADVANCE for any help or directions you can give me!!!! >Brenda >Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan >Assisting Boston Terriers >Kearney, Nebraska >Dedicated to helping abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers >To the World, you are just a person.....to a Rescue Dog, you are the World!!! >www.nationwidebostonrescue.org www.corunduminium.com - Ask me about The >Corundum Project > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From lanny at lrream.com Mon Jan 31 09:27:59 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Mon Jan 31 09:25:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph drifting towards fluorescence In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <73AD6BB3-73AD-11D9-8B32-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi Axel, To be a pseudomorph, it has to retain the form of the replaced mineral. If it didn't retain the form, where is there any evidence or even a suggestion that it is a pseudomorph? You are most likely correct in your assumption that it is a halite pseudomroph after dolomite. Or, maybe it is simply an original dolomite, not a copy at all. How about a simple touch of the tongue...? Regards, Lanny On Jan 31, 2005, at 2:53 AM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > Finally and on topic about pseudomorphs: I recently acquired a > specimen that > was labeled: Dolomite pseudomorph after halite, Fortuna Murcia, Spain. > It's > a single crystal of a few centimeters. > Since halite forms cubic crystals, one would expect a mineral that's > replacing it would retain this habit. The crystal is however > rhombohedral > just like dolomite. Is that possible? I would almost suspect it to be > halite > after dolomite rather than vice versa. Easily tested of course, but it > is > such a rare fluorescent specimen that I hesitate to take a sample from > it. > > Also funny about this specimen: the crystal fluoresces (LW & SW) > yellow-orange only at the edges. So basically you see only 6 > parallelograms > when you view the crystal under a well filtered UV-lamp. > > Cheers > > Axel From SMKELL45 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 09:31:01 2005 From: SMKELL45 at aol.com (SMKELL45@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 31 09:31:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Howieite Message-ID: <40ECBA06.62B275AF.0079B709@aol.com> Bought a sample of Howieite on " blueschist", from the Laytonville California quarry site. In the matrix were several metallic crystal parts. They are coppery but more orange than regular copper and about 1/16 to 1/8 inch in size. Anybody out there know anything about any of the minor minerals in that quarry site. smkell From DicksWi at northville.k12.mi.us Mon Jan 31 09:17:52 2005 From: DicksWi at northville.k12.mi.us (William Dicks) Date: Mon Jan 31 10:11:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] How do you catalogue your stuff???? Message-ID: Hi Art: Interesting question. Didn't know if you wanted to share your system or not. It's up to you. Thanks for FWD the msg to Jay. I saw his response....tried AGAIN to answer him,.....bounced back. Oh well ) : Bill Dicks MESTA Board Member >>> corundogs@charter.net 01/31/05 11:23AM >>> OK, I have a very important question for you :-) We have over 3,000 corundum specimens (and adding daily it seems!!) that we would like to catalogue into a spreadsheet that can be sorted by the various columns - locality, dealer received from, cost, value, where it is currently, description, etc. We would like to put it together with a column that includes a picture of each specimen as well. Will would like it to be able to be printed out in 5x8 size to keep in a box. >From what I have seen, Microsoft Office is our best bet - it has Excel and some of the other programs that are included that I think would be useful in putting this together. However, I could be very wrong. Maybe there is a much better program that would be more useful in what we are trying to accomplish. I hope that there is someone (or two or three or.....hehe!) who has some experience with this and can steer me in the right direction. I have promised Will I can figure it out....and have spoken with a couple of accounting people (that was my previous job before I got sick!) and they have told me that Excel is still the best program for what I am trying to do. However, I used Excel over a decade ago, and I just don't know if that is still the best out there - or at least for what we are wanting. If you don't want to respond on list - is this off-topic for the list?? - you can email me privately at corundogs@charter.net THANK YOU IN ADVANCE for any help or directions you can give me!!!! Brenda Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, Nebraska Dedicated to helping abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a person.....to a Rescue Dog, you are the World!!! www.nationwidebostonrescue.org www.corunduminium.com - Ask me about The Corundum Project --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 31 11:27:00 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Mon Jan 31 11:27:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph drifting towards fluorescence In-Reply-To: <73AD6BB3-73AD-11D9-8B32-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <20050131192700.41084.qmail@web51003.mail.yahoo.com> If it is in fact halite, then it could be just halite on the surface-- an epimorph of halite over dolomite. The fluorescence on the edges only seems to suggest that possibility. Jim --- Lanny wrote: > Hi Axel, > > To be a pseudomorph, it has to retain the form of > the replaced mineral. > If it didn't retain the form, where is there any > evidence or even a > suggestion that it is a pseudomorph? You are most > likely correct in > your assumption that it is a halite pseudomroph > after dolomite. Or, > maybe it is simply an original dolomite, not a copy > at all. How about a > simple touch of the tongue...? > > Regards, > > Lanny > > > > > On Jan 31, 2005, at 2:53 AM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > > > Finally and on topic about pseudomorphs: I > recently acquired a > > specimen that > > was labeled: Dolomite pseudomorph after halite, > Fortuna Murcia, Spain. > > It's > > a single crystal of a few centimeters. > > Since halite forms cubic crystals, one would > expect a mineral that's > > replacing it would retain this habit. The crystal > is however > > rhombohedral > > just like dolomite. Is that possible? I would > almost suspect it to be > > halite > > after dolomite rather than vice versa. Easily > tested of course, but it > > is > > such a rare fluorescent specimen that I hesitate > to take a sample from > > it. > > > > Also funny about this specimen: the crystal > fluoresces (LW & SW) > > yellow-orange only at the edges. So basically you > see only 6 > > parallelograms > > when you view the crystal under a well filtered > UV-lamp. > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 From SMKELL45 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 12:04:22 2005 From: SMKELL45 at aol.com (SMKELL45@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 31 12:04:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] zussmanite Message-ID: <612FA3D5.5A9D899B.0079B709@aol.com> Anyone have a descriptionussmanite, from the Laytonville Quarry, Mendocino Co., California smkell From hptdesigns at charter.net Mon Jan 31 13:34:49 2005 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Mon Jan 31 13:35:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] How do you catalogue your stuff???? In-Reply-To: <009801c507b1$46e81d70$ea8da842@dit03r92qai5fx> Message-ID: <3khdfd$i5ut6l@mxip04a.cluster1.charter.net> Do not even think of excel as the residency for you data, though you can use excel very easily to analyze it. You really do need a database application--and for me, I think Access is probably your best solution. Excel is a great spreadsheet program, and Mr. Gates has made sure it interfaces with all the other Office products as does Access. Email me off list and will let you try Don and my new version. It has some nice touches, I think, and for sure has enough fields for a mineral collectiona as it was designed with a museum in mind. I have it in two versions--one that does not require Access--what is called a runtime version, and one that requires Officd 2002 or 2003. Its very easy for example with two or three clicks to get all the corundum variety ruby that came from a certain mine, country, state, etc. If you have Access installed then you get a relatively easy query builder that really allows you to slice and dice up to your hearts content. Aso a very powerful filter by form and filter by selection wizard that allows all kinds of ways to mine your data. The way I dealt with pictures was by making links to them and saving the links in the database application--but instead of simply creating link, actually copies it from on location, stores them all in one folder, and renames them in a consistant way so that when you open the folder all the picture files are there and in alpha by mineral name, mine name, city, state, and country. Pretty good way of keeping up with all your pictures. Tommy Armstrong N 35* 23' 52'' W 78* 49' 9'' > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of CorunDogs > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 11:24 AM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] How do you catalogue your stuff???? > > OK, I have a very important question for you :-) > > We have over 3,000 corundum specimens (and adding daily it > seems!!) that we would like to catalogue into a spreadsheet > that can be sorted by the various columns - locality, dealer > received from, cost, value, where it is currently, > description, etc. We would like to put it together with a > column that includes a picture of each specimen as well. > Will would like it to be able to be printed out in 5x8 size > to keep in a box. > > >From what I have seen, Microsoft Office is our best bet - it > has Excel and some of the other programs that are included > that I think would be useful in putting this together. > > However, I could be very wrong. Maybe there is a much better > program that would be more useful in what we are trying to > accomplish. > > I hope that there is someone (or two or three or.....hehe!) > who has some experience with this and can steer me in the > right direction. I have promised Will I can figure it > out....and have spoken with a couple of accounting people > (that was my previous job before I got sick!) and they have > told me that Excel is still the best program for what I am > trying to do. However, I used Excel over a decade ago, and I > just don't know if that is still the best out there - or at > least for what we are wanting. > > If you don't want to respond on list - is this off-topic for > the list?? - you can email me privately at corundogs@charter.net > > THANK YOU IN ADVANCE for any help or directions you can give me!!!! > Brenda > Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan > Assisting Boston Terriers > Kearney, Nebraska > Dedicated to helping abused, neglected and abandoned Boston > Terriers To the World, you are just a person.....to a Rescue > Dog, you are the World!!! > www.nationwidebostonrescue.org www.corunduminium.com - Ask me > about The Corundum Project > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From hptdesigns at charter.net Mon Jan 31 13:39:25 2005 From: hptdesigns at charter.net (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Mon Jan 31 13:39:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] hey anyone know the site for? In-Reply-To: <41FE524E.9050507@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: <3khdfd$i5v56l@mxip04a.cluster1.charter.net> John Veevaert of Trinity Minerals always has good write ups about shows and whats new in the way of minerals. http://www.mineralshows.com/tucson2005/specials.shtml Usually posts reports everyday along with some mighty fine rocks. Tommy Armstrong N 35* 23' 52'' W 78* 49' 9'' > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Richard Trapp > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 10:44 AM > To: dhawk@ecologyfund.net; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing > list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] hey anyone know the site for? > > > for Tucson (you didn't really mean Tuscany in Italy, right?) > rock and gem shows > > http://www.tucsonshowguide.com/tsg/ > > > If you are looking for the Tucson Gem and Mineral Show, > presented in its 51st consecutive year by the Tucson Gem and > Mineral Society February 10-13, 2005, that would be > > http://www.tgms.org/ > > > > > the other angus wrote: > > >I am looking for the site of the tuscan rock and gem show > anyone know what it is? > > > >Email me back please at kilted_swede@yahoo.ca > > > > > >Thanks > > > > > >DArren > > > >  > > > >------------------------------------------ > >Conserve wilderness with a click (free!) and get your own > EcologyFund.net email (free!) at http://www.ecologyfund.com. > > > > > > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html > (html body > >-- converted) > >--- > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Rick Trapp > Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From SMKELL45 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 14:11:05 2005 From: SMKELL45 at aol.com (SMKELL45@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 31 14:11:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] zussmanite Message-ID: Let's try that again. Does anyone have any information on Zussmanite from the Laytonville Quarry, Mendocino Co. California. I bought a specimen of Howieite from that locale and found a few orangy-red crystal portions. The color looks similar to spessartine garnet but there are a few other minerals in that quarry of which I have little information. smkell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jan 31 14:59:33 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jan 31 14:59:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph drifting towards fluorescence In-Reply-To: <73AD6BB3-73AD-11D9-8B32-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: My idea too! But I'm not a prof mineralogist so I wasn't sure... I'll photograph it first to preserve the good looks and then drill a small hole in the bottom of the crystal. I have a variable speed micro drill that can hold drills as small as 0.2 mm. I could test the dust from the drillhole for taste and fizzle in HCl. Thanks Lanny Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Lanny Verzonden: maandag 31 januari 2005 18:28 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph drifting towards fluorescence Hi Axel, To be a pseudomorph, it has to retain the form of the replaced mineral. If it didn't retain the form, where is there any evidence or even a suggestion that it is a pseudomorph? You are most likely correct in your assumption that it is a halite pseudomroph after dolomite. Or, maybe it is simply an original dolomite, not a copy at all. How about a simple touch of the tongue...? Regards, Lanny On Jan 31, 2005, at 2:53 AM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > Finally and on topic about pseudomorphs: I recently acquired a > specimen that > was labeled: Dolomite pseudomorph after halite, Fortuna Murcia, Spain. > It's > a single crystal of a few centimeters. > Since halite forms cubic crystals, one would expect a mineral that's > replacing it would retain this habit. The crystal is however > rhombohedral > just like dolomite. Is that possible? I would almost suspect it to be > halite > after dolomite rather than vice versa. Easily tested of course, but it > is > such a rare fluorescent specimen that I hesitate to take a sample from > it. > > Also funny about this specimen: the crystal fluoresces (LW & SW) > yellow-orange only at the edges. So basically you see only 6 > parallelograms > when you view the crystal under a well filtered UV-lamp. > > Cheers > > Axel _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From lanny at lrream.com Mon Jan 31 16:04:56 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Mon Jan 31 16:02:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph drifting towards fluorescence In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Axel, It seems clear to me on this question. If you consider that the term "pseudomorph" comes from pseudo - meaning "false," and morph - meaning "form," then it can't be a pseudomorph if a mineral doesn't have a "false form" (the form that belongs to another mineral). Thinking about that, makes me wonder how often we actually have one mineral replacing another, but the replacing mineral actually crystallizes in its own form. If that happens, how would we know there was a replacement if none of the original mineral remains? Good luck with the testing. Regards, Lanny On Jan 31, 2005, at 2:59 PM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > My idea too! But I'm not a prof mineralogist so I wasn't sure... > > I'll photograph it first to preserve the good looks and then drill a > small > hole in the bottom of the crystal. > I have a variable speed micro drill that can hold drills as small as > 0.2 mm. > I could test the dust from the drillhole for taste and fizzle in HCl. > > Thanks Lanny > > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Lanny > Verzonden: maandag 31 januari 2005 18:28 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph drifting towards > fluorescence > > > Hi Axel, > > To be a pseudomorph, it has to retain the form of the replaced mineral. > If it didn't retain the form, where is there any evidence or even a > suggestion that it is a pseudomorph? You are most likely correct in > your assumption that it is a halite pseudomroph after dolomite. Or, > maybe it is simply an original dolomite, not a copy at all. How about a > simple touch of the tongue...? > > Regards, > > Lanny > > > > > On Jan 31, 2005, at 2:53 AM, Axel Emmermann wrote: >> >> >> Finally and on topic about pseudomorphs: I recently acquired a >> specimen that >> was labeled: Dolomite pseudomorph after halite, Fortuna Murcia, Spain. >> It's >> a single crystal of a few centimeters. >> Since halite forms cubic crystals, one would expect a mineral that's >> replacing it would retain this habit. The crystal is however >> rhombohedral >> just like dolomite. Is that possible? I would almost suspect it to be >> halite >> after dolomite rather than vice versa. Easily tested of course, but it >> is >> such a rare fluorescent specimen that I hesitate to take a sample from >> it. >> >> Also funny about this specimen: the crystal fluoresces (LW & SW) >> yellow-orange only at the edges. So basically you see only 6 >> parallelograms >> when you view the crystal under a well filtered UV-lamp. >> >> Cheers >> >> Axel > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From corundogs at charter.net Mon Jan 31 16:05:15 2005 From: corundogs at charter.net (CorunDogs) Date: Mon Jan 31 16:05:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Catologuing responses - THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! Message-ID: <004b01c507f1$b5bf40d0$e6b27144@dit03r92qai5fx> HI THERE!! I want to personally thank everyone who responded to my question....THANK YOU SO MUCH!! I am just thrilled with the responses I received - on and off line!! However, I fell last week when we had some nice weather - 60 degrees - for the first time in over a month. The snow all melted that previous non-frozen night and that morning and it left nothing but 4 inches of mushy mud. And I slipped and fell :-( I am having alot of problems with my hip and shoulder still (yes I fell on my butt...LOL!!) Thank goodness for some padding at least :-) And I am just not 'with it' enough to really digest these messages. I will get back to each of you hopefully in the morning!!! In the meantime - this was Will's response to the first two messages I sent him - before I went to bed for 5 hours this afternoon ;-) Jeurgen - wanna share with us what he wrote?!?!?! hehehe!! 1: Thank you. It sounds as if MS Access may be the way to go. 2: Vielen dank, mein volksche Korundverschnapftemensch. Du hast vergeben mir eine gute Idee, die Ich muss beipassen zu meine Freundin und unser Araknoschpinnmeister Again, THANKS and I am also really glad this wasn't an offtopic question....that is always my fear of posting...LOL!! I am so NOT the type to ruffle feathers and try my darndest not to do it :-) Bren Brenda, Duke, Jack, Hannah and Meghan Assisting Boston Terriers Kearney, Nebraska Dedicated to helping abused, neglected and abandoned Boston Terriers To the World, you are just a person.....to a Rescue Dog, you are the World!!! www.nationwidebostonrescue.org www.corunduminium.com - Ask me about The Corundum Project --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jemstone at amug.org Mon Jan 31 16:22:49 2005 From: jemstone at amug.org (John McLaughlin) Date: Mon Jan 31 16:22:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph drifting towards fluorescence References: Message-ID: <001101c507f4$29bf6170$f25a2741@MCWIDOM> This appears to be an accurate description of a wolf in sheep's clothing - a frequently described biological pseudomorph. John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona and already about broke from spending too much time in Tucson. > It seems clear to me on this question. If you consider that the term > "pseudomorph" comes from pseudo - meaning "false," and morph - meaning > "form," then it can't be a pseudomorph if a mineral doesn't have a "false > form" (the form that belongs to another mineral). . . . > > Lanny > From ljwill at directcon.net Mon Jan 31 19:34:45 2005 From: ljwill at directcon.net (Williams) Date: Mon Jan 31 19:34:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] zussmanite References: Message-ID: <003901c5080e$f9f2cb10$3c48d7cf@Williams> For starters, there is spessertine(orange), Howeite(brownish), Deerite(blue Needles),Reibeckite(blueish)Zussmanite(lt green). There are others as well. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 2:11 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] zussmanite > Let's try that again. Does anyone have any information on Zussmanite from > the Laytonville Quarry, Mendocino Co. California. I bought a specimen of > Howieite from that locale and found a few orangy-red crystal portions. The color > looks similar to spessartine garnet but there are a few other minerals in that > quarry of which I have little information. smkell > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net Mon Jan 31 21:00:06 2005 From: pjmodreski at worldnet.att.net (Peter J. Modreski) Date: Mon Jan 31 20:50:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph drifting towards fluorescence References: Message-ID: <006701c5081a$e9b74080$0fa5490c@pete> Yes, Axel, as did Lanny, I was also going to suggest... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" < The crystal is however rhombohedral just like dolomite. Is that possible? I would almost suspect it to be halite after dolomite rather than vice versa. Easily tAsted of course... And then where Lanny said... < ...makes me wonder how often we actually have one mineral replacing another, but the replacing mineral actually crystallizes in its own form. If that happens, how would we know there was a replacement if none of the original mineral remains? Well, a true pseudomorph--true replacement--is where the new mineral replaces the crystal of the old one, "bit by bit", altering its chemistry to the new mineral. But the other situation is where the old mineral is simply completely dissolved away, leaving a hollow cavity (preserving the crystal form), and then that hollow crystal cavity is filled in by what may be a completely unrelated mineral; some would consider this to be just a cast of the hollow mold, and not a "true" pseudomorph. And if the mold were filled in completely, it would in fact preserve the shape of the old crystal; or, it could just be filled in partly, forming crystals or groups or clusters or druses lining the cavity, that don't really preserve the original shape; and the new mineral could just as well be filling in some other, non-crystal-related cavity; a vesicle in lava, a cavity in karst or in a fault zone, the interior of a fossil, etc. This same thing applies to petrified wood; there's fossil wood that is "truly replaced", and this can preserve the grain structure of the wood; and there's wood that was dissolved away first and then the hollow was filled in--i.e., the "limb casts". I (and most people?) actually get a little confused sometimes, by the exact difference (if there always is a difference?) between these two different kinds of replacements, and how to always tell them apart. Pete From lanny at lrream.com Mon Jan 31 22:14:27 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Mon Jan 31 22:12:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz pseudomorph drifting towards fluorescence In-Reply-To: <006701c5081a$e9b74080$0fa5490c@pete> References: <006701c5081a$e9b74080$0fa5490c@pete> Message-ID: <87224C49-7418-11D9-8B32-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi Pete, When I wrote that, I wasn't thinking of filling in a mold. Maybe some of those "odd looking" specimens in our collections are really pseudomorphs formed this way. Think of your specimen that you are sure is a certain mineral because of the crystal shape, yet the color is different than it usually is, or it otherwise looks odd. Something like that could send a beginner back a couple years if he tested it and the hardness, luster, streak just didn't work out at all for what it looks like and he knows the form is wrong for what the tests suggests. Maybe that's how we end up drooling and babbling incoherently as we get older... Linus was wrong, we should have been given an X-ray and microprobe along with the banjo when we were born. (I got none of them.) Regards, Lanny On Jan 31, 2005, at 9:00 PM, Peter J. Modreski wrote: > Yes, Axel, as did Lanny, I was also going to suggest... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Axel Emmermann" > < The crystal is however rhombohedral just like dolomite. Is that > possible? > I would almost suspect it to be halite after dolomite rather than vice > versa. Easily tAsted of course... > > And then where Lanny said... > > < ...makes me wonder how often we actually have one > mineral replacing another, but the replacing mineral actually > crystallizes > in its own form. If that happens, how would we know there was a > replacement > if none of the original mineral remains? > > Well, a true pseudomorph--true replacement--is where the new mineral > replaces the crystal of the old one, "bit by bit", altering its > chemistry to > the new mineral. But the other situation is where the old mineral is > simply > completely dissolved away, leaving a hollow cavity (preserving the > crystal > form), and then that hollow crystal cavity is filled in by what may be > a > completely unrelated mineral; some would consider this to be just a > cast of > the hollow mold, and not a "true" pseudomorph. And if the mold were > filled > in completely, it would in fact preserve the shape of the old crystal; > or, > it could just be filled in partly, forming crystals or groups or > clusters or > druses lining the cavity, that don't really preserve the original > shape; and > the new mineral could just as well be filling in some other, > non-crystal-related cavity; a vesicle in lava, a cavity in karst or in > a > fault zone, the interior of a fossil, etc. This same thing applies to > petrified wood; there's fossil wood that is "truly replaced", and this > can > preserve the grain structure of the wood; and there's wood that was > dissolved away first and then the hollow was filled in--i.e., the "limb > casts". I (and most people?) actually get a little confused > sometimes, by > the exact difference (if there always is a difference?) between these > two > different kinds of replacements, and how to always tell them apart. > > Pete > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >