From MCGINNISG at aol.com Fri Jul 1 00:18:07 2005 From: MCGINNISG at aol.com (MCGINNISG@aol.com) Date: Fri Jul 1 00:18:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] SPECTRUM SUNSTONE MINE FREE DIG Message-ID: <6a.5878be5d.2ff6482f@aol.com> Any truth to the rumor that the skeeter's down there are so large that they can carry off small children. My eldest son is planning a visit in mid-July and was wondering what caliber was needed to fend of the beasts. Any other surprises there? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Fri Jul 1 04:24:30 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Jul 1 04:24:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] SPECTRUM SUNSTONE MINE FREE DIG In-Reply-To: <6a.5878be5d.2ff6482f@aol.com> References: <6a.5878be5d.2ff6482f@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050701042401.02776740@mail.spiritone.com> There are no mosquitos at the sunstone area. They are all closer to the lakes. At 12:18 AM 7/1/2005, you wrote: > >Any truth to the rumor that the skeeter's down there are so large that they >can carry off small children. My eldest son is planning a visit in mid-July >and was wondering what caliber was needed to fend of the beasts. Any other >surprises there? > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Sat Jul 2 09:26:14 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Sat Jul 2 09:26:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Back home... Message-ID: <42C6C026.90809@tenforward.com> Hi Everyone, I'm back from my mining in Idaho and just wanted to thank those of you who wrote off list, thank you. I really enjoyed Scott's report and absolutely loved that first photo with the rainbow, surprisingly (at least to me), no one else on list really commented. Ah well, perhaps everyone is busy doing their own collecting, in which case perhaps we'll all be blessed with upcoming trip reports in spades! I'll be sticking close to home between now and Denver (in September) preparing things out. It's a bit overwhelming, but it's always a blast to be hip deep in crystals so I suppose everything is good. I hope everyone is doing well and that everyone has a great weekend. All the very best, John From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Sat Jul 2 09:26:33 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Sat Jul 2 09:26:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Perfect 10 cm Herks Message-ID: <42C6C039.7040602@tenforward.com> Hi Rock and Everyone, It took me a bit to find the link, but regarding big Herks, here ya go. Enjoy! All the very best, John http://www.geologicdesires.com/diggingforherksarticle.htm --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 2 09:48:14 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sat Jul 2 09:48:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent out of the Woods In-Reply-To: <20050629233739.28958.qmail@web54206.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050702164814.76665.qmail@web51001.mail.yahoo.com> > > >>??? Cerussite? Where does the lead come from? I > > differ with that > > identification. > > > I doubt that ID also having seen hundreds of > specimens > from the quarry. > > Stan > For whatever it's worth (not implying that their list is complete or definitive), Mindat does list galena from that quarry (but not cerussite!) Cerussite would then be possible, with the presence of lead, in a carbonate environment. Jim Daly ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com From BNMJEFF at aol.com Sat Jul 2 10:28:33 2005 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Sat Jul 2 10:28:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] rockhound survey Message-ID: <1de.3ebd148f.2ff828c1@aol.com> Did I miss the final results from the rockhound survey? If I did can someone point me to them? jeff --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From roughrock at gmail.com Sat Jul 2 16:37:11 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Sat Jul 2 16:37:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Spectrum Mine In-Reply-To: References: <128.5b839e44.2f9c935b@aol.com> Message-ID: Has any one been to the Spectrum Mine lately, or heard from Chris? I want to go up next week but would hate to find a locked gate. Grant On 6/26/05, Grant Johnston wrote: > from the website. > > SPECTRUM SUNSTONE MINE FREE DIG Dig for free all day, keep what you > find (even the nice ones) from fresh unprocessed ore (mine personnel > must be present) . Guaranteed to find reds, greens, dichroic, > schiller, clubs and families welcome. Bring screens and hand tools. > Spectrum Sunstone Mine is open May 15 through November 1st. Camping > is available on our property. We also have a water well. We are in > the process of putting up fully accommodated housing which will be > available for guests (no more pit toilets..... yeah!!). For a map > please click location. > > > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Jul 2 18:41:54 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Jul 2 18:38:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] rockhound survey References: <1de.3ebd148f.2ff828c1@aol.com> Message-ID: <42C741A3.2D24@Tomaszewski.net> Jeff, You didn't miss the Survey results because we're not quite done with the analysis yet. We're short a few graphs, and a couple of the open ended questions are still being analyized in depth. However, this big project is being done on hobby time, and life keeps getting in the way. But the first, almost complete, draft of the paper has been finished, and reviewed, and what we hope is the final draft, with enhancements and corrections incorporated, has been started. Tina and I expect to publish it in a few weeks. Thanks for asking. Kreigh BNMJEFF@aol.com wrote: > > Did I miss the final results from the rockhound survey? If I did can someone > point me to them? > > jeff From dpowell13 at Rochester.rr.com Sat Jul 2 19:31:36 2005 From: dpowell13 at Rochester.rr.com (Darryl Powell) Date: Sat Jul 2 19:32:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Autographs Message-ID: <002801c57f77$5702e350$2c8da918@6663r01> Happy 4th o' July, Rockhounds. Hope you have a wonderful and safe holiday. A new interest of mine is collecting autographs of folks connected to the mineral collecting hobby. Does anyone share this interest? Either I'm the only loon interested in such an obscure topic, or there are far more of us than might be expected. It might be fun to explore the topic a bit. This interest all started when I picked up two autographed books: "The Making of a Hardrock Miner" by Steve Voynick and an old, privately published book by Benjamin Shaub, "The Book of Mineral Photographs." In addition, my grandmother bequethed to me a large watercolor painting by Gunnar Bjareby (a well-known collector in the Boston area until the mid 1960's or so) which is signed and dated. The rest of my autographs are on business cards. I look forward to hearing from anyone about the subject. By the way, if you're interested, I'd be tickled to trade autographed business cards with any of you out there. Please feel free to contact me off list (diamonddan@rochester.rr.com) or through the rockhounds mailing list. Darryl Powell Manchester, New York --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From morningstar at att.net Sat Jul 2 20:02:05 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Sat Jul 2 19:55:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Autographs In-Reply-To: <002801c57f77$5702e350$2c8da918@6663r01> References: <002801c57f77$5702e350$2c8da918@6663r01> Message-ID: <42C7552D.9000005@att.net> > A new interest of mine is collecting autographs of folks connected to the mineral collecting hobby. Does anyone share this interest? Either I'm the only loon interested in such an obscure topic, or there are far more of us than might be expected. It might be fun to explore the topic a bit. It's not as uncommon as you think, at least if you consider the variations on the topic. Former Rockhounds list member, now Dr., Marcus Origlieri, has an edition of Fleischer's Guide to Mineral Species with autographs next to many of the eponymous minerals. Noted micromounter John Ebner has a collection of micromounts mounted by the people after whom they are named; a few of these have signed labels, signed photos, or other signed collateral materials. I have about 30 specimen labels signed by the people after whom the mineral is named, which includes two signed photographs, a signed letter or two, and a signed copy of Sinkankas's Mineralogy with a personal note in it. I also have a few signed books, and I have seen people at shows and symposia getting books autographed so I suppose it would be relatively common to find signed copies of books out there. Don From BNMJEFF at aol.com Sat Jul 2 20:48:33 2005 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Sat Jul 2 20:48:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] rockhound survey Message-ID: Thanks kreigh... --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Jul 2 21:46:57 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Jul 2 21:46:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Autographs References: <002801c57f77$5702e350$2c8da918@6663r01> Message-ID: <42C76DBA.783@Tomaszewski.net> Hi Darryl, A Happy and Safe 4th to you also. I'm hosting our 22nd (mostly annual) 4th party, to also celebrate my oldest daughter's college graduation (with a job!); turkeys on the barbie, side dishes, libations, over a dozen flavors of homemade ice cream, and many friends. Noon to dusk; you, or anyone on the List, are welcome to stop by unannounced -- if I can have your autograph. The collecting of significant autographs, or specimens with labels (especially hand labeled) from prominent collectors, is actually quite common. I have many such specimens (one going back to the 1700s), a few autographed labels, and some autographed field guides/books. Many of us collectors have acquired specimens that have a pedigree, and we are just the current consevator. The documentation of the pedigree only improves the value of the specimen, and signed documentation is always preferred. Old specimens typically preserve the heritage of locations long lost to current collectors, and they need to be cherished. Museums and Academic Institutions can't do it all -- as usual, the amateurs need to fill in. Kreigh Darryl Powell wrote: > > Happy 4th o' July, Rockhounds. Hope you have a wonderful and safe holiday. > > A new interest of mine is collecting autographs of folks connected to the mineral collecting hobby. Does anyone share this interest? Either I'm the only loon interested in such an obscure topic, or there are far more of us than might be expected. It might be fun to explore the topic a bit. > > This interest all started when I picked up two autographed books: "The Making of a Hardrock Miner" by Steve Voynick and an old, privately published book by Benjamin Shaub, "The Book of Mineral Photographs." In addition, my grandmother bequethed to me a large watercolor painting by Gunnar Bjareby (a well-known collector in the Boston area until the mid 1960's or so) which is signed and dated. The rest of my autographs are on business cards. > > I look forward to hearing from anyone about the subject. By the way, if you're interested, I'd be tickled to trade autographed business cards with any of you out there. > > Please feel free to contact me off list (diamonddan@rochester.rr.com) or through the rockhounds mailing list. > > Darryl Powell > Manchester, New York From a.m.robbemond at hccnet.nl Sun Jul 3 03:31:35 2005 From: a.m.robbemond at hccnet.nl (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Robbemond?=) Date: Sun Jul 3 03:31:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for ..... References: <002801c57f77$5702e350$2c8da918@6663r01> <42C76DBA.783@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <001001c57fba$64b9a5e0$0200a8c0@Andre2> Hi there! I'm looking for: - Peter Andresen from Norway. I used to contact him at e-mail-address andresen_p@hotmail.com, but he doesn't respond at this address anymore. - Nelson Valenzuela from Argentina geologist at the university of C?rdoba (maybe removed to Chili) I should be pleased if someone can provide me any information. Best regards, Andr? Robbemond From diederik.visser at dvminerals.com Sun Jul 3 08:31:14 2005 From: diederik.visser at dvminerals.com (Diederik Visser Minerals) Date: Sun Jul 3 08:31:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for ..... References: <002801c57f77$5702e350$2c8da918@6663r01> <42C76DBA.783@Tomaszewski.net> <001001c57fba$64b9a5e0$0200a8c0@Andre2> Message-ID: <001d01c57fe4$3fc71590$10523591@dgdfgyoz4v47zc> Dear Andr?, Just today (after a long silence) I received an email from Peter using the address you mentioned. He wrote that he was very busy with work during the last few months and was moving to Southern Norway. Just try again. cheers, Diederik Visser ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andr? Robbemond" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2005 12:31 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for ..... > Hi there! > > I'm looking for: > - Peter Andresen from Norway. I used to contact him at e-mail-address > andresen_p@hotmail.com, but he doesn't respond at this address anymore. > - Nelson Valenzuela from Argentina geologist at the university of C?rdoba > (maybe removed to Chili) > > I should be pleased if someone can provide me any information. > > Best regards, > > Andr? Robbemond > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.5/32 - Release Date: 27-6-2005 > > From albalmer at att.net Sun Jul 3 08:33:21 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Sun Jul 3 08:33:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Spectrum Mine In-Reply-To: References: <128.5b839e44.2f9c935b@aol.com> Message-ID: <42C80541.6080808@att.net> Grant Johnston wrote: > Has any one been to the Spectrum Mine lately, or heard from Chris? I > want to go up next week but would hate to find a locked gate. > Don't worry about it. There's no gate :-) Chris doesn't stay on site (too many other mines to take care of), he has some help. > Grant > > On 6/26/05, Grant Johnston wrote: > >>from the website. >> >>SPECTRUM SUNSTONE MINE FREE DIG Dig for free all day, keep what you >>find (even the nice ones) from fresh unprocessed ore (mine personnel >>must be present) . Guaranteed to find reds, greens, dichroic, >>schiller, clubs and families welcome. Bring screens and hand tools. >>Spectrum Sunstone Mine is open May 15 through November 1st. Camping >>is available on our property. We also have a water well. We are in >>the process of putting up fully accommodated housing which will be >>available for guests (no more pit toilets..... yeah!!). For a map >>please click location. >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From s.l.haas at att.net Sun Jul 3 09:51:34 2005 From: s.l.haas at att.net (s.l.haas@att.net) Date: Sun Jul 3 09:51:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Herkimer info please Message-ID: <070320051651.1325.42C81796000966F90000052D21603760219C0E0E08D204D29C@att.net> I am planning a trip to collect Herkimer's in August. There will be 3 ladies - a tolally new (20 year old)collector, a "senior" lady and myself. Any suggestions on the best place to collect, not too hard but good to get decent specimans? And can anyone suggest any hotels (preferably close to the collecting sites so we can walk back and forth?) Any other suggestions or hints are appreciated. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sun Jul 3 18:41:03 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun Jul 3 18:41:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Autographs References: <002801c57f77$5702e350$2c8da918@6663r01> Message-ID: <004a01c58039$70b9e790$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I know autographs are popular, but that has never been my forte (although I have a couple of famous astronomer signatures of books). I get requests to autograph my Illinois-Kentucky fluorspar district Min Rec article from time to time, which I oblige, but have not sought autographs of other articles by authors. I bought a bunch of astronomy journals years ago for $20 at a antiquarian astronomy book store in Massachusetts. When I got home I found that the collection belonged to Harlow Shapley, one of the giants of 20th century astronomy! (He was theastronomer that determined the sun was not in the center of the Milky Way, but about 30K light years out.) The annotated volumes will be donated to the University of Louisville rare book collections. I haven't figured out what to do with the others. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darryl Powell" To: "Rockhounds List" Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2005 10:31 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Autographs Happy 4th o' July, Rockhounds. Hope you have a wonderful and safe holiday. A new interest of mine is collecting autographs of folks connected to the mineral collecting hobby. Does anyone share this interest? Either I'm the only loon interested in such an obscure topic, or there are far more of us than might be expected. It might be fun to explore the topic a bit. This interest all started when I picked up two autographed books: "The Making of a Hardrock Miner" by Steve Voynick and an old, privately published book by Benjamin Shaub, "The Book of Mineral Photographs." In addition, my grandmother bequethed to me a large watercolor painting by Gunnar Bjareby (a well-known collector in the Boston area until the mid 1960's or so) which is signed and dated. The rest of my autographs are on business cards. I look forward to hearing from anyone about the subject. By the way, if you're interested, I'd be tickled to trade autographed business cards with any of you out there. Please feel free to contact me off list (diamonddan@rochester.rr.com) or through the rockhounds mailing list. Darryl Powell Manchester, New York --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockcurrier at cs.com Sun Jul 3 22:14:45 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Sun Jul 3 22:08:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Autographs References: <200507040100.j6410XHV008952@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <004501c58057$4e61a7a0$2eeaa5d8@rock5> Darryl says: A new interest of mine is collecting autographs of folks connected to the mineral collecting hobby. Does anyone share this interest? ... I think your interest in autogrphs will provide you with many interesting hours of mineralogical fun and interaction. I whoud think however, that of greater gerneral interest would be to collect short biographical sketches of various individuals involved in various mineralogical and geological endeavors with their autographs appended. Why don't you do a whose who of mineralogy and related fields? The autographs don't mean much without the knowlege of who the people are and what they have done. Rock From LarryRush at worldnet.att.net Mon Jul 4 07:03:22 2005 From: LarryRush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Mon Jul 4 07:00:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Herkimer info please References: <070320051651.1325.42C81796000966F90000052D21603760219C0E0E08D204D29C@att.net> Message-ID: <002d01c580a1$24e1e080$13864c0c@fekib> As older people, you probably don't want to go up to Middleville, where the fee sites, such as the Ace of Diamonds are. That's hard work, where heavy sledges, prybars, and chisels are needed, and much overburden of dolomite has to be removed before you can get down to the pocket layer. However, crystals are often found by breaking up the smaller pieces of rock left behind by the pocket hunters. In Little Falls, the commercial site known as Treasure Mountain is closed. Hickory Run is not open until Labor day, I believe. That leaves Margaret Hasting's place near Fonda, (Diamond Acres) where most holes are reserved for the season as "leases", but where you can dig in an unopened spot, if you want to put the effort into getting down through the overburden in a new, undug spot in the woods. That can be fruitful, but you have to invest the time needed. The last choice that I know of as a fee site would be Crystal Grove Campground (see their web site) North of St. Johnsville. Here, the digging is a bit easier. You have to break down through several feet of rock on an open ledge, and find small pockets in the cracks, crevices, and fracture zones in the solid rock. Large pockets are very rare, but the crystals are brilliant, small, clear, and well formed, often occurring on matrix of drusy quartz. The word-of-mouth this year is that findings have been more rare and sporadic recently. Be prepared not to find much unless you spend a full day or more digging. The site is pleasant, wooded in spots, and there is water and rest room facilities. There is a hotel in Middleville, and in Little Falls, and a couple in Palatine Bridge. There are restaurants in St. Johnsville, and scattered about Route 5. Good collecting...........Larry Rush ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2005 12:51 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Herkimer info please > I am planning a trip to collect Herkimer's in August. There will be 3 ladies - a tolally new (20 year old)collector, a "senior" lady and myself. Any suggestions on the best place to collect, not too hard but good to get decent specimans? And can anyone suggest any hotels (preferably close to the collecting sites so we can walk back and forth?) Any other suggestions or hints are appreciated. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.3 - Release Date: 12/21/04 > > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.3 - Release Date: 12/21/04 From JWachsmuth at gmx.de Mon Jul 4 06:23:02 2005 From: JWachsmuth at gmx.de (Juergen Wachsmuth) Date: Mon Jul 4 07:09:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Autographs References: <002801c57f77$5702e350$2c8da918@6663r01> Message-ID: <42C93836.4B195823@gmx.de> Hello, cannot say I am really collecting autographs. But whenever I bought a mineral book at a show and one of the authors was present I got it signed. So I may have about 20 of these signed books now. For me it is an addition, a personal touch to my library. Regards, J?rgen Wachsmuth Ulm - Germany Darryl Powell schrieb: > Happy 4th o' July, Rockhounds. Hope you have a wonderful and safe holiday. > > A new interest of mine is collecting autographs of folks connected to the mineral collecting hobby. Does anyone share this interest? Either I'm the only loon interested in such an obscure topic, or there are far more of us than might be expected. It might be fun to explore the topic a bit. > > This interest all started when I picked up two autographed books: "The Making of a Hardrock Miner" by Steve Voynick and an old, privately published book by Benjamin Shaub, "The Book of Mineral Photographs." In addition, my grandmother bequethed to me a large watercolor painting by Gunnar Bjareby (a well-known collector in the Boston area until the mid 1960's or so) which is signed and dated. The rest of my autographs are on business cards. > > I look forward to hearing from anyone about the subject. By the way, if you're interested, I'd be tickled to trade autographed business cards with any of you out there. > > Please feel free to contact me off list (diamonddan@rochester.rr.com) or through the rockhounds mailing list. > > Darryl Powell > Manchester, New York > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From mhammill at mindspring.com Mon Jul 4 07:57:38 2005 From: mhammill at mindspring.com (michael hammill) Date: Mon Jul 4 07:57:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tennessee collecting Message-ID: <410-22005714145738600@mindspring.com> Happy fouth of July to all. I was just wondering if anyone had any suggestions on places to collect in Tennessee? I am going to be around the Carthage Tennessee area, and I know the popular mines in the area are all closed. Any suggestions on where to go? Thanks, michael hammill mhammill@mindspring.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Mon Jul 4 19:19:07 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Mon Jul 4 19:19:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tennessee collecting References: <410-22005714145738600@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <004701c58107$ec7daaa0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> In 1989, when they were putting in the new road from the interstate highway to Carthage (Hwy 80 and US70N), I found vugs containing calcite, celestine & pyrite. There may still be some in the road cut or in riprap around guard rails. See my entry at: http://www.mindat.org/loc-66411.html. Orginially I had photos of specimens posted, but when mindat crashed in March they were lost, along 250 other photos I had posted. Come next winter I will try to re-post those images. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael hammill" To: ; ; Sent: Monday, July 04, 2005 10:57 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Tennessee collecting > > > > Happy fouth of July to all. > I was just wondering if anyone had any suggestions on places to collect in > Tennessee? I am going to be around the Carthage Tennessee area, and I know > the popular mines in the area are all closed. Any suggestions on where to > go? > > Thanks, > michael hammill > mhammill@mindspring.com > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be Mon Jul 4 23:14:03 2005 From: herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be (herwig pelckmans) Date: Mon Jul 4 23:19:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] visit to Oregon Message-ID: <00d001c58128$bdfd5ba0$bfbfe0d5@telenet.be> Hi all, I hope you all had/still have a great 4th of July. In a few weeks, we (= our family of 5) will be visiting Oregon. After doing some homework, we noticed there is sooo much to see in OR that we decided to limit ourselves to the southern part (roughly south of Eugene, Bend, Ontario). We have about 4 weeks to cover that area. We love the desert, geology, camping, hiking, hot springs, etc... but also would like to meet & see the collections of local rockhounds. Talking rocks is always fun, and who knows, maybe someone is willing to go out collecting minerals with us. We also plan on doing some gold panning... Anyone willing to contribute to the success of our trip, please send an email to: herwig.pelckmans@pandora.be Even a tip regarding a good restaurant, rock shop or camping spot will be highly appreciated. Thanks! Cheers, Herwig & Christine & kids (from Belgium) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From MCGINNISG at aol.com Tue Jul 5 01:41:48 2005 From: MCGINNISG at aol.com (MCGINNISG@aol.com) Date: Tue Jul 5 01:42:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Visit to Oregon Message-ID: <1e6.3f08c36c.2ffba1cc@aol.com> Here are a few websites about Oregon _www.ohwy.com_ (http://www.ohwy.com) _http://www.traveloregon.com/index.cfm_ (http://www.traveloregon.com/index.cfm) _http://www.sova.org_ (http://www.sova.org) _www.oregon.com_ (http://www.oregon.com) _www.travel-to-oregon-tips.com_ (http://www.travel-to-oregon-tips.com) _http://www.oregonlive.com/travel_ (http://www.oregonlive.com/travel) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Tue Jul 5 07:43:10 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Tue Jul 5 07:43:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] visit to Oregon In-Reply-To: <00d001c58128$bdfd5ba0$bfbfe0d5@telenet.be> References: <00d001c58128$bdfd5ba0$bfbfe0d5@telenet.be> Message-ID: <42CA9C7E.2020503@tenforward.com> Hi Herwig, I sure wish I could make it this year, but being buried in specimens, my travels are from one end of the yard to the other currently. I've included a link for your consideration, I hope it helps! All the very best, John http://www.nwsource.com/travel/scr/tf_detail.cfm?dt=3890&cid=2&pageid=OR&cityid=70 herwig pelckmans wrote: >Hi all, > >I hope you all had/still have a great 4th of July. >In a few weeks, we (= our family of 5) will be visiting Oregon. >After doing some homework, we noticed there is sooo much to see in OR that we decided to limit ourselves to the southern part (roughly south of Eugene, Bend, Ontario). We have about 4 weeks to cover that area. >We love the desert, geology, camping, hiking, hot springs, etc... but also would like to meet & see the collections of local rockhounds. Talking rocks is always fun, and who knows, maybe someone is willing to go out collecting minerals with us. We also plan on doing some gold panning... >Anyone willing to contribute to the success of our trip, please send an email to: >herwig.pelckmans@pandora.be >Even a tip regarding a good restaurant, rock shop or camping spot will be highly appreciated. >Thanks! > >Cheers, Herwig & Christine & kids (from Belgium) > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From roughrock at gmail.com Tue Jul 5 11:48:20 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Tue Jul 5 11:48:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fwd: visit to Oregon In-Reply-To: References: <128.5b839e44.2f9c935b@aol.com> Message-ID: I think this offer is worth your time. Grant ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Tourmalineminer@aol.com Date: Apr 23, 2005 11:14 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Free Sunstone Dig a Spectrum Mine To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com There is an alternative for fee digging sunstone and having to pay high prices for what you find. We are offering free digging at no charge at the Spectrum Sunstone Mine. You keep whatever you find at no charge regardless of value. We guarantee that everyone finds reds, greens and schiller stones. We will give everyone that comes up to the mine and mentions this posting......a 15 carat facet grade Red Labradorite (sunstone) and one faceted sunstone free of charge. We are doing this to promote Spectrum Sunstone Mines and show that there are OTHER sources of high gem quality sunstone being produced and to promote the stone and increase the sunstone market. We currently own more colored sunstone producing claims than any other company and it is easier to find colored and schiller sunstones at Spectrum than at any other sunstone fee dig that I know of. On average, we find some color or schiller almost every screen full of dirt. Some of the stones found exceed 300 carats in weight. We also plan to have our commercial gem screening plant and conveyer picking belt running this summer. When it is running (it was damaged due to vandalism) we will allow all that come to the mine to pick sunstones off the belt and keep all they find without all the work of digging and screening it. We also have a rock shop with gems and minerals for sale from all of our mines including the Himalaya Tourmaline Mine as well as around the world. We are also in the process of putting up manufactured housing at the mine which will be available for our guests to stay in. (no more pit toilets!!) We expect this to be ready by June. There is also camping available on the property. We also have an abundant supply of fresh water from our well for the public to use as well as a swimming pool, badminton, volleyball and a desert golf course (balls not included) We officially open to the public on May 15 and close October 31 Our website is www.highdesertgemsand minerals.com Our map was temporarily down but is once again working. Hope to see you all up there. P.S. My inspiration to let the public dig for free on Spectrum came from Tim Fisher and some friends of his. Hope to see you up here Tim. Chris Rose Tourmalineminer@aol.com 775)772-7724 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Tue Jul 5 12:05:59 2005 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Wayne Rasmussen) Date: Tue Jul 5 12:06:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fwd: visit to Oregon References: <128.5b839e44.2f9c935b@aol.com> Message-ID: <000901c58194$9576a210$675fe842@Titans> Dan, That certainly took long enough to deliever, sooy for all the waisted time, let me know how you like the rock. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Johnston" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 12:48 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Fwd: visit to Oregon >I think this offer is worth your time. Grant > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Tourmalineminer@aol.com > Date: Apr 23, 2005 11:14 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Free Sunstone Dig a Spectrum Mine > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > > There is an alternative for fee digging sunstone and having to pay high > prices for what you find. We are offering free digging at no charge at > the > Spectrum Sunstone Mine. You keep whatever you find at no charge > regardless of value. > We guarantee that everyone finds reds, greens and schiller stones. We > will > give everyone that comes up to the mine and mentions this posting......a > 15 > carat facet grade Red Labradorite (sunstone) and one faceted sunstone free > of > charge. We are doing this to promote Spectrum Sunstone Mines and show > that > there are OTHER sources of high gem quality sunstone being produced > and to promote > the stone and increase the sunstone market. We currently own more colored > sunstone producing claims than any other company and it is easier to find > colored and schiller sunstones at Spectrum than at any other sunstone > fee dig that I > know of. On average, we find some color or schiller almost every screen > full > of dirt. Some of the stones found exceed 300 carats in weight. We also > plan > to have our commercial gem screening plant and conveyer picking belt > running > this summer. When it is running (it was damaged due to vandalism) we will > allow all that come to the mine to pick sunstones off the belt and keep > all they > find without all the work of digging and screening it. We also have a > rock > shop with gems and minerals for sale from all of our mines including the > Himalaya Tourmaline Mine as well as around the world. We are also in > the process of > putting up manufactured housing at the mine which will be available for > our > guests to stay in. (no more pit toilets!!) We expect this to be ready by > June. > There is also camping available on the property. We also have an abundant > supply of fresh water from our well for the public to use as well as a > swimming > pool, badminton, volleyball and a desert golf course (balls not included) > We officially open to the public on May 15 and close October 31 > Our website is www.highdesertgemsand minerals.com Our map was > temporarily > down but is once again working. Hope to see you all up there. > > P.S. My inspiration to let the public dig for free on Spectrum came from > Tim > Fisher and some friends of his. Hope to see you up here Tim. > > Chris Rose Tourmalineminer@aol.com 775)772-7724 > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Jul 5 16:10:39 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Jul 5 16:07:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] visit to Oregon References: <00d001c58128$bdfd5ba0$bfbfe0d5@telenet.be> Message-ID: <42CB12BE.14F2@Tomaszewski.net> Herweg, Have you found a copy of "Idaho Minerals" by Lanny Ream to help with your planning? If not, please let me know (off-list), with your mailing address, and I'll loan you my copy (that I got from Horst in South Africa). Kreigh herwig pelckmans wrote: > > Hi all, > > I hope you all had/still have a great 4th of July. > In a few weeks, we (= our family of 5) will be visiting Oregon. > After doing some homework, we noticed there is sooo much to see in OR that we decided to limit ourselves to the southern part (roughly south of Eugene, Bend, Ontario). We have about 4 weeks to cover that area. > We love the desert, geology, camping, hiking, hot springs, etc... but also would like to meet & see the collections of local rockhounds. Talking rocks is always fun, and who knows, maybe someone is willing to go out collecting minerals with us. We also plan on doing some gold panning... > Anyone willing to contribute to the success of our trip, please send an email to: > herwig.pelckmans@pandora.be > Even a tip regarding a good restaurant, rock shop or camping spot will be highly appreciated. > Thanks! > > Cheers, Herwig & Christine & kids (from Belgium) From batsondebelfry at yahoo.com Tue Jul 5 21:58:15 2005 From: batsondebelfry at yahoo.com (Neal Hazen) Date: Tue Jul 5 21:58:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Field Trip report and Kentucky mineral Question Message-ID: <20050706045815.63224.qmail@web30906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi, Rockhounds. Last week, my friend John Hendrix took me to the Tombigbee River adjacent to Old Lock No. One. The Corps had straightened and enlarged a section of the river so as to bypass the river bend and the old lock. The flood gauge read only 4.5 feet, and the streamflow was only 2% of flood flow. All in all, the current was about 3-4 knots, and the water was low enough to expose the spoil pile where the Corp's dragline had piled up rock and sand from the river bottom. Sadly, John had to do almost all the digging. We had spent the early morning hours collecting fossils below the Coffeeville Lock and Dam. By the time we arrived at the spoil pile it was early afternoon and very hot. It wasn't too long after arrival that I discovered the new medication I was on was playing around with my blood pressure. I'd clamber around on the rocks for a few minutes and would soon get weak. I was sweating rivers. After a little rest, I stood up, only to get instantly very dizzy. I've heard of 'natural highs', but this wasn't one I ever want to repeat. Also, my eyes became extra sensitive to the light, and everything began to "white out". I couldn't stay standing, so I sat down again. After cooling off a bit I attempted to resume looking for agate, but as soon as I took two or three steps the vertigo and white out resumed. I had plenty of water, so I laid up in what shade there was for the next couple of hours. By about 4 o'clock I finally decided to throw in the towel and headed back to the canoe. John so far had amassed two or three hundred pounds of Alabama Agate. Some of this material was knappable - which is what John was after - and the rest was good cabbing material. One piece weighed about 50 pounds and was 4 inches thick. There were several other nice slabs, as well. Most of this material is root beer in color, with a nice translucency. There was a small bit of blue, and some honey with red, too. Since that day I've cut my medication dosage in half. I visit the doctor tomorrow for a long discussion. The tropical storms promise to severely limit rockhounding for the rest of the summer. I don't want to miss what windows of opportunity there will be for fear of dying from heat stroke. I am going on a church mission trip to Helton, KY at the end of this month. Helton is about 70 miles or so southwest of Hazard. During my free time I plan to search the local streambed for any interesting minerals. The town is at an elevation of about 250 feet above sea level. It is surrounded by mountains with elevations of 1800'+. I figure whatever minerals there are will be in that creek. Anyone have any ideas one what I might expect to find, in particular? Anyone have info on nearby mineral collecting? TIA. Neal Neal Hazen "Some people learn through reading. A few others learn by observation. Most of us have to pee on the electric fence for ourselves." Will Rogers --------------------------------- Sell on Yahoo! Auctions - No fees. Bid on great items. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From getclyde at verizon.net Wed Jul 6 03:52:28 2005 From: getclyde at verizon.net (CLYDE PHILLIPS) Date: Wed Jul 6 03:52:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Herkimer info please References: <070320051651.1325.42C81796000966F90000052D21603760219C0E0E08D204D29C@att.net> Message-ID: <000f01c58218$cdc96100$6401a8c0@xp> My wife and I have gone a few times over the past couple years. The closest place to the Ace of Diamonds mine is the KOA campground. You could rent a cabin about a half-mile from there, if you reserve one in time. It is spartan-ish with community showers & restrooms, but they can handle three people no problem. We stayed at the only motel in Herkimer, about 1-2 stars, and at least 6 miles away. The KOA is across the street from a poor collecting spot as well as a museum and store which are cool to see. I've collected at most of the places within 30miles and feel the Ace has the best to offer. Yes there are commercial collectors there, but there are loose crystals as well as loose crystal containing rocks everywhere. I think the best collecting was after a rain shower - they show up quicker with no dust. Take a 3-4 lb hammer and chisel if you want to trim any of them. If you decide to pound, you better have goggles. The dolomite rock is very hard and the shrapnel is sharp. Take gloves, water, and bandades. Clyde ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2005 12:51 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Herkimer info please >I am planning a trip to collect Herkimer's in August. There will be 3 >ladies - a tolally new (20 year old)collector, a "senior" lady and myself. >Any suggestions on the best place to collect, not too hard but good to get >decent specimans? And can anyone suggest any hotels (preferably close to >the collecting sites so we can walk back and forth?) Any other suggestions >or hints are appreciated. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From morningstar at att.net Wed Jul 6 11:59:57 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Wed Jul 6 11:52:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] Message-ID: <42CC2A2D.3040202@att.net> Howdy, While reading the latest issue of Rocks & Minerals with a mixture of emotions, I came across a term in the introduction to the article on Propsect Park that inspired me to write a message to the editor. In the interest of sharing my pedantic nature, I offer it below. Don -------- Original Message -------- Subject: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 14:51:46 -0400 From: Don H To: Marie Huizing Greetings, I would like to point out an abomination that often appears in the literature, and is not unique to this case, but given the circumstances is as good a time as any to point out. This concerns the use of the term "self-collected" specimens. As far as I know and believe, no specimen ever collected itself; and if I saw that happen, I would check my medications or check myself into a mental institution. Please inform the author that the proper use of the English language compels us to say "personally collected," or "collected by author," or in this particular case, he could have avoided any redundancy by saying "specimens collected by so-and-so." All specimens are collected by *someone*, so even if the term "self-collected" weren't an atrocity of the English language in its own right, that term isn't always clear as to the actual collector, depending on context. I'm suprised John White hasn't jumped on that one already--or perhaps he has, but I missed it. Thank you for your kind attention. Very truly yours, Don J. Halterman, Jr. From Gslrocks at aol.com Wed Jul 6 12:07:04 2005 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Wed Jul 6 12:07:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] Message-ID: <92.2a42b6cb.2ffd85d8@aol.com> danged rocks just fell off the wall they were attached to and bounced either into the back of my truck or the buckets i was putting specimens i was " personally digging" into ... HMMM so maybe they can be self collected.... ROFL Greg AKA bigfoot or mine monster... or just plain monster....lol Greg Lesinski GSLROCKS 4726 Porter Center Rd. Lewiston NY 14092 Fluorescent minerals, ultraviolet lamps and reference books authorized distributor and reseller for Way Too Cool lamps website www.gslrocks.com GSLROCKS@AOL.COM 716-754-9729 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Gslrocks at aol.com Wed Jul 6 12:24:57 2005 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Wed Jul 6 12:25:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Herkimer info please Message-ID: at Crystal grove there are campsites, RV hookups with pullthroughs and cabins available. The people who run it Evan and Cecily are very cordial, friendly and accomodating. There are some nice rocks to work on. We are there every memorial day weekend to runite with old friends and make new ones. We generally find a decent amount of material. There are wall pockets to discover unlike the 30 feet of overburden at Herkimer diamond development, which makes it workable. Thay also do not limit the size of the hammers you use! If you can use a 16-20 lb sledgehammer bring it! Along with some steel and prybars to move the rock. Last year our group found the largest pocket to date there with xtls 4-5 inches in them and many clusters and pockets in the rest of the rock. You can also dig there from 8 AM untill 8-8:30 pm if you are up to it for a mere $7.00 for adults and $5 for kids...the other mines let you in at nine and toss you out at 4 pm Greg Greg Lesinski GSLROCKS 4726 Porter Center Rd. Lewiston NY 14092 Fluorescent minerals, ultraviolet lamps and reference books authorized distributor and reseller for Way Too Cool lamps website www.gslrocks.com GSLROCKS@AOL.COM 716-754-9729 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From scottkleine at greatbasinminerals.com Wed Jul 6 12:28:50 2005 From: scottkleine at greatbasinminerals.com (Scott Kleine, Great Basin Minerals) Date: Wed Jul 6 12:25:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] The term "Self-Collected" explained- References: <42C6C026.90809@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <068901c58260$f669b040$df124ed1@gbm> Hello All, I thought I would pitch in and explain the definition of this term- 'Self-collected' is a slang abbreviation for the whole phrase: "I collected this specimen myself", shortened down to two words. Of course it's not a proper term. But if the rock-head(s) you are talking to understand your use of this term, then no further grammatical defining is needed. All the best! Scott Kleine- Great Basin Minerals www.greatbasinminerals.com scottkleine@greatbasinminerals.com From herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be Wed Jul 6 12:25:09 2005 From: herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be (herwig pelckmans) Date: Wed Jul 6 12:30:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fwd: visit to Oregon References: <128.5b839e44.2f9c935b@aol.com> Message-ID: <007201c58260$6c597340$bfbfe0d5@telenet.be> Hi Grant & others, Yes, I agree, that offer was already part of my trip planning. But thanks anyway for bringing it up again. Reminded me I still had to check their map versus Topozone. Turns out their map is not as detailed/complete as it looks like...(well, certainly not as detailed as I would like it to be). For example, no distances are mentioned towards the end of the drive ... But I do think I will be able to find it with a 1/25000 topomap as a backup. Anyway, Grant, did you go there yourself already? As I remember, you had planned on going there... Interested in going there together? I could help you with your weelchair etc. ... Just let me know! Cheers, Herwig Herwig Pelckmans Worldwide Mineral Collector Cardijnstraat 12 B-3530 Helchteren Belgium Europe http://www.xlizd.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Johnston" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 8:48 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Fwd: visit to Oregon > I think this offer is worth your time. Grant > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Tourmalineminer@aol.com > Date: Apr 23, 2005 11:14 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Free Sunstone Dig a Spectrum Mine > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > > There is an alternative for fee digging sunstone and having to pay high > prices for what you find. We are offering free digging at no charge at the > Spectrum Sunstone Mine. You keep whatever you find at no charge > regardless of value. > We guarantee that everyone finds reds, greens and schiller stones. We will > give everyone that comes up to the mine and mentions this posting......a 15 > carat facet grade Red Labradorite (sunstone) and one faceted sunstone free of > charge. We are doing this to promote Spectrum Sunstone Mines and show that > there are OTHER sources of high gem quality sunstone being produced > and to promote > the stone and increase the sunstone market. We currently own more colored > sunstone producing claims than any other company and it is easier to find > colored and schiller sunstones at Spectrum than at any other sunstone > fee dig that I > know of. On average, we find some color or schiller almost every screen full > of dirt. Some of the stones found exceed 300 carats in weight. We also plan > to have our commercial gem screening plant and conveyer picking belt running > this summer. When it is running (it was damaged due to vandalism) we will > allow all that come to the mine to pick sunstones off the belt and keep all they > find without all the work of digging and screening it. We also have a rock > shop with gems and minerals for sale from all of our mines including the > Himalaya Tourmaline Mine as well as around the world. We are also in > the process of > putting up manufactured housing at the mine which will be available for our > guests to stay in. (no more pit toilets!!) We expect this to be ready by June. > There is also camping available on the property. We also have an abundant > supply of fresh water from our well for the public to use as well as a swimming > pool, badminton, volleyball and a desert golf course (balls not included) > We officially open to the public on May 15 and close October 31 > Our website is www.highdesertgemsand minerals.com Our map was temporarily > down but is once again working. Hope to see you all up there. > > P.S. My inspiration to let the public dig for free on Spectrum came from Tim > Fisher and some friends of his. Hope to see you up here Tim. > > Chris Rose Tourmalineminer@aol.com 775)772-7724 > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From everbeek at nac.net Wed Jul 6 12:44:07 2005 From: everbeek at nac.net (earl verbeek) Date: Wed Jul 6 12:44:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] In-Reply-To: <42CC2A2D.3040202@att.net> Message-ID: <000001c58263$139cbf20$abe4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Yay, Don. Thanks for jumping on that one. While we're riding this particular horse, another common abomination concerns crystal sizes, as in "occurs in crystals to 4 cm." What in the world does "crystals TO 4 cm" mean? Does it stand in opposition to "crystals from 4 cm"? Crystals on 4 cm? Crystals at 4 cm? I dunno. I suppose this is editorial shorthand for "occurs in crystals as much as 4 cm long", but it's nonsense, no matter often repeated. Earl the Curmudgeon -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Don H Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 3:00 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] Howdy, While reading the latest issue of Rocks & Minerals with a mixture of emotions, I came across a term in the introduction to the article on Propsect Park that inspired me to write a message to the editor. In the interest of sharing my pedantic nature, I offer it below. Don -------- Original Message -------- Subject: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 14:51:46 -0400 From: Don H To: Marie Huizing Greetings, I would like to point out an abomination that often appears in the literature, and is not unique to this case, but given the circumstances is as good a time as any to point out. This concerns the use of the term "self-collected" specimens. As far as I know and believe, no specimen ever collected itself; and if I saw that happen, I would check my medications or check myself into a mental institution. Please inform the author that the proper use of the English language compels us to say "personally collected," or "collected by author," or in this particular case, he could have avoided any redundancy by saying "specimens collected by so-and-so." All specimens are collected by *someone*, so even if the term "self-collected" weren't an atrocity of the English language in its own right, that term isn't always clear as to the actual collector, depending on context. I'm suprised John White hasn't jumped on that one already--or perhaps he has, but I missed it. Thank you for your kind attention. Very truly yours, Don J. Halterman, Jr. _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 6 12:49:17 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Wed Jul 6 12:49:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] References: <42CC2A2D.3040202@att.net> Message-ID: <001c01c58263$cbebd250$78f1edc1@mpc1> Ah yes, well said. Someone once told me of a specimen that he had self-collected it himself. I was on the verge of personally throttling him myself, but I managed to self-control my rage and stalked off mumbling... Mick From jaybates at rcn.com Wed Jul 6 13:20:22 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Wed Jul 6 13:19:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] References: <42CC2A2D.3040202@att.net> Message-ID: <000f01c58268$239b09e0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Self in "self-collected", is a pronoun which is understood to refer to the person making the statement, not the rock. I don't see a grammatical problem with its usage. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don H" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 11:59 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] > > Howdy, > > While reading the latest issue of Rocks & Minerals with a mixture of > emotions, I came across a term in the introduction to the article on > Propsect Park that inspired me to write a message to the editor. In the > interest of sharing my pedantic nature, I offer it below. > > Don > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M > Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 14:51:46 -0400 > From: Don H > To: Marie Huizing > > > Greetings, > > > I would like to point out an abomination that often appears in the > literature, and is not unique to this case, but given the circumstances > is as good a time as any to point out. This concerns the use of the > term "self-collected" specimens. As far as I know and believe, no > specimen ever collected itself; and if I saw that happen, I would check > my medications or check myself into a mental institution. Please inform > the author that the proper use of the English language compels us to say > "personally collected," or "collected by author," or in this particular > case, he could have avoided any redundancy by saying "specimens > collected by so-and-so." All specimens are collected by *someone*, so > even if the term "self-collected" weren't an atrocity of the English > language in its own right, that term isn't always clear as to the actual > collector, depending on context. > > I'm suprised John White hasn't jumped on that one already--or perhaps he > has, but I missed it. > > Thank you for your kind attention. > > > Very truly yours, > > Don J. Halterman, Jr. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From newryqs at rochester.rr.com Wed Jul 6 13:26:23 2005 From: newryqs at rochester.rr.com (Van) Date: Wed Jul 6 13:26:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] References: <000001c58263$139cbf20$abe4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <005301c58268$fa883f90$6401a8c0@nathanqa8gl7gx> I came across an interesting website which may, or may not, alleviate your fears. A often used grammatical construction, particularly if it has a flaw, becomes an idiom. So a search revealed an excellent review. http://www.answers.com/topic/figure-of-speech It might also help to understand what "naturally occurring" really means and the distinction from "synthetic", although a synthesist uses natural laws to create something "artificial" from natural materials. Many of the above words can be reduced to absurdity, as well. I particularly like metonymy. Van From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Wed Jul 6 13:32:58 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Wed Jul 6 13:32:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grammatics Message-ID: Not to over-grammatize, but we could name self collected specimens "gramartite"!!!! Or "founthissuckermuhselfite" ROTFLtite Glenn Wimpee ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Find just what you're after with the new, more precise MSN Search - try it now! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From rik.dillen at skynet.be Wed Jul 6 13:50:34 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Wed Jul 6 13:50:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Back from Malaysia In-Reply-To: <000f01c58268$239b09e0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <200507062050.j66KoZbs023259@outmx015.isp.belgacom.be> Hi all, Back from a 4-weeks journey to Malaysia. So I owe you my report on the mineralogical aspects of our holidays, which will be very short since we visited only peninsular Malaysia (not the Borneo part), where interesting minerals seem to lack almost completely. Malaysia is a world producer of tin, but the cassiterite is almost completely mined in alluvial deposits as fine grains. We visited the "Muzium Geologi" at the "Jabatan Mineral dan Geosains Malaysia", which is interesting for its geological and ore specimens and exhibits and posters on tin mining. The number of visitors to this museum is very limited : they had to call in the conservator, and in the guestbook I counted 12 visitors during the first 3 weeks of june... when we arrived they had no visitors for over a week. If you plan to visit it : take into account that any city maps of IPOH are very confusing, that various travel guides and websites mention a wrong adress etc. But with some persistance you should be able to get there eventually... For the rest : Malaysia is a heaven for the photographer (I shot over 5000 high resolution photos on a NIKON D70). People are extremely friendly and hospitable. Traffic is very chaotic (but not impossible if you are an experienced defensive driver), road maps are not correct or consistent (we had to compare continuously 2 different maps, and many times they were different and both wrong...). It's a charming and colourful mix of ethnic groups, cultures, religions, languages etc. all living together in a very friendly atmosphere. You will find Malay (= Western), Arab, Chinese, Indian characters. Expecially at the east coast and in the north it is most of the time difficult to find any people who understand some English, but when you are hungry they can read it from your face, when you have a flat tyre you can point to it :>) The rain forest and nature in general is phantastic (if you can handle the climate : 32 to 43?C at a moisture level up to 85%). The only drawbacks for us were 1) the food (but that's our "fault", not liking sharply spiced stuff), 2) no toilet paper available (to be "shoplifted" from the hotel :>), 3) leeches and mosquitos (various precautions needed !). Anyway, Malaysia is a SPLENDID country to visit. Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ From tfa at brickengraver.com Wed Jul 6 14:48:26 2005 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Wed Jul 6 14:48:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] In-Reply-To: <000f01c58268$239b09e0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <20050706214758.SOXT14901.imta01a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> I agree, since it is pretty obvious that self does not refer to a rock, as the definition of "self" absolutely indicates a human being. A rock cannot be the antecedent for the pronoun "self". "Self collected" is simply saying "Collected by myself". When Don writes: "As far as I know and believe, no specimen ever collected itself"; he is of course absolutely correct, but the term "self" can never have an antecedent of a rock, so, Don, I think your argument is fallacious. BTW--have fun out in the West. "If you're a big enough fool to climb a tree and like a cat refuse to come down, then someone who loves you has to make as big a fool of himself to rescue you." W Percy -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of jaybates Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 4:20 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] Self in "self-collected", is a pronoun which is understood to refer to the person making the statement, not the rock. I don't see a grammatical problem with its usage. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don H" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 11:59 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] > > Howdy, > > While reading the latest issue of Rocks & Minerals with a mixture of > emotions, I came across a term in the introduction to the article on > Propsect Park that inspired me to write a message to the editor. In > the interest of sharing my pedantic nature, I offer it below. > > Don > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M > Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 14:51:46 -0400 > From: Don H > To: Marie Huizing > > > Greetings, > > > I would like to point out an abomination that often appears in the > literature, and is not unique to this case, but given the > circumstances is as good a time as any to point out. This concerns > the use of the term "self-collected" specimens. As far as I know and > believe, no specimen ever collected itself; and if I saw that happen, > I would check my medications or check myself into a mental > institution. Please inform the author that the proper use of the > English language compels us to say "personally collected," or > "collected by author," or in this particular case, he could have > avoided any redundancy by saying "specimens collected by so-and-so." > All specimens are collected by *someone*, so even if the term > "self-collected" weren't an atrocity of the English language in its > own right, that term isn't always clear as to the actual collector, depending on context. > > I'm suprised John White hasn't jumped on that one already--or perhaps > he has, but I missed it. > > Thank you for your kind attention. > > > Very truly yours, > > Don J. Halterman, Jr. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From MCGINNISG at aol.com Wed Jul 6 16:36:48 2005 From: MCGINNISG at aol.com (MCGINNISG@aol.com) Date: Wed Jul 6 16:36:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Andradite-Grossular Garnets Message-ID: <8d.2a76d367.2ffdc510@aol.com> The Andradite-Grossular garnets found near the Bishop California Tungsten area: SiO2=38.4%, CaO=32.4%, Fe2O3=8.5%, Al2O3=16.4%, and MnO=4.3%. This would give a formula of (Ca, Mn)3(Al, Fe)2(SiO4)3 Mindat.org lists Grandite (An intermediate between Grossular and Andradite garnet) with a formula of Ca3(Al,Fe)2(SiO4)3 Are the Bishop Garnets chemically close enough to be called Grandites? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From newryqs at rochester.rr.com Wed Jul 6 17:55:50 2005 From: newryqs at rochester.rr.com (Van) Date: Wed Jul 6 17:56:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Andradite-Grossular Garnets References: <8d.2a76d367.2ffdc510@aol.com> Message-ID: <008c01c5828e$9f8f4220$6401a8c0@nathanqa8gl7gx> As I understand Winchell's classification of the subgroups in the garnet group, any chemical composition from pure grossular through pure andradite would be a grandite, when the composition included calcium dominant in the first formula position. The Winchell subgroups were not anything more than a usefull generalization and are not to be taken as having any modern formality. These subgroups do call attention to the normally limited substitution between the pyralspites [pyrope - almandine - spessartine] and the ugrandites [uvarovite - grossular - andradite]: transitional metals vs. calcium in the first formula position. Van From jr50wv at yahoo.com Wed Jul 6 19:00:20 2005 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Wed Jul 6 19:00:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Neal, a tip on southern Kentucky Message-ID: <20050707020020.18409.qmail@web41013.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, Neal: Glad you did OK on your HOT trip to collect Alabama agate, I hope you don't see white flashes again this summer. I wanted to go collect this 4th of July weekend, but just didn't feel up to it, so I stayed home and rested. I've collected several times in So KY, but probably a little west of where you will be. There are a lot of geodes in Kentucky, and the creek beds are a good place to start. If there are any, and where I've been there are a ton, anywhere from walnut sized on up to a couple of feet across, then open a few to see what's inside. Then, if you care to, look for the formation they're eriding out of, because the ones you cut from bedrock are usually a lot nicer inside than the ones eroded out. Often lined with Quartz crystals or chalcedony or other crypto-crystalline silicon-dioxide, with other minerals an unusual bonus. We've also found silicified fossils in creek beds, and on ridge tops. OFten lined with crystals. Sometimes there will be small sulfides on the qz, and sometimes there are dolomite xtals, in curving sheaves up to maybe 8 or 10 mm. Let us know what you see, JR in WV ____________________________________________________ Sell on Yahoo! Auctions ? no fees. Bid on great items. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jul 6 20:04:53 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jul 6 19:58:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Andradite-Grossular Garnets References: <8d.2a76d367.2ffdc510@aol.com> Message-ID: <42CC9A3E.6F6@Tomaszewski.net> MCGINNISG@aol.com wrote: > > The Andradite-Grossular garnets found near the Bishop California Tungsten > area: SiO2=38.4%, CaO=32.4%, Fe2O3=8.5%, Al2O3=16.4%, and MnO=4.3%. This would > give a formula of (Ca, Mn)3(Al, Fe)2(SiO4)3 > > Mindat.org lists Grandite (An intermediate between Grossular and Andradite > garnet) with a formula of Ca3(Al,Fe)2(SiO4)3 > > Are the Bishop Garnets chemically close enough to be called Grandites? > I might lump them into the Andradite-Grossular Series, which seems generally preferred over use of an unaccepted mineral name; Ca3Fe2Si3O12 -- Ca3Al2(SiO4)3 But the Mn bothered me, so I did some homework. You got some spessartine mixed in? If not (as I suspect), you might want to review the IMA Checklist for new mineral submissions and see what is needed beyond Bateman's (and Margerum's) analysis. I suspect this is a candidate for a new garnet, and possibly an endpoint for a new series or three, and someone is going to end up naming it. BTW, the Mn, especially if it is on the lower end, suggests a Gold Skarn (based on research by Canada's Ministry of Energy, Mines, and Petroleum Resources). Kreigh From MCGINNISG at aol.com Wed Jul 6 22:54:30 2005 From: MCGINNISG at aol.com (MCGINNISG@aol.com) Date: Wed Jul 6 22:54:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garnet question answered??? Message-ID: <1e4.3ef7a173.2ffe1d96@aol.com> Re: Andradite-Grossular Garnets Hi Tim You've gotten tangled up in a common misconception about Garnet Group nomenclature - which isn't helped any by the rather ambiguous listing at Mindat... "Grandite" is a sort of a series name for calcium garnets in the grossular-andradite series - it is not the name of a mineral species, or even variety, in the series. It is a shorthand way of saying you have a specimen that has both Fe and Al in it, but you don't know which side of the 50% point it is on - since you don't know if it is grossular or andradite, you simply call it "grandite", which is a combinitation of the "gr" from grossular and the "and" from andradite. The Mindat listing is trying - badly... :~} - to convey they idea that if you don't know which side of the 50% mark the composition falls then the best you can do is call it by the less precise name "grandite." Alas, this gives the impression - erroneously - that there is an accepted intermediate species name, when there really isn't. Since the specimens you are referring to are Ca and Al dominant, they are grossular. Regards Alan >From Alan Plante Thanks Alan Tim --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be Thu Jul 7 01:14:03 2005 From: herwig.pelckmans at pandora.be (herwig pelckmans) Date: Thu Jul 7 01:19:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] visit to Oregon References: <00d001c58128$bdfd5ba0$bfbfe0d5@telenet.be> <42CA9C7E.2020503@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <00b701c582cb$d63b2720$bfbfe0d5@telenet.be> Hi John & Gloria, Thanks for the link. I did ran into a guy last Tucson (or the year before) that was carrying flyers for this museum. Maybe it was Delmar himself, don't remember. Anyway, we have that museum on our planning. Who knows, maybe we can do something together on our next trip to northern OR or so ... In any case, thanks again for your warm hospitality and the unforgetable week we spend together when we visited WA. We all had a great time exploring the Olympic Penninsula, talking rocks, admiring your collection or just playing with your dogs (especially the kids, they still remember their names!). Thanks also for all the expert advise you gave us while we were preparing our trip. As you know, you have a standing invitation for Belgium. Maybe our nature is not that unique, but our chocolate & beer & other goodies are! ;-) Hope to be your host one day... Take good care, Cheers, Herwig ----- Original Message ----- From: "John and Gloria Cornish" To: "herwig pelckmans" ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 4:43 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] visit to Oregon > Hi Herwig, > > I sure wish I could make it this year, but being buried in specimens, my > travels are from one end of the yard to the other currently. I've > included a link for your consideration, I hope it helps! All the very best, > > John > > http://www.nwsource.com/travel/scr/tf_detail.cfm?dt=3890&cid=2&pageid=OR&cit yid=70 > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Jul 7 01:26:46 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Jul 7 01:26:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grammatics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Trippedoverite? Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Glenn Wimpee Verzonden: woensdag 6 juli 2005 22:33 Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Grammatics Not to over-grammatize, but we could name self collected specimens "gramartite"!!!! Or "founthissuckermuhselfite" ROTFLtite Glenn Wimpee ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Find just what you're after with the new, more precise MSN Search - try it now! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Jul 7 06:28:17 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Jul 7 06:28:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grammatics References: Message-ID: <001c01c582f7$bdd73da0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Toestumperite... Jeanette > Trippedoverite? > > Axel > >> "gramartite"!!!! > Or "founthissuckermuhselfite" > > > ROTFLtite > > Glenn Wimpee > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > Find just what you're after with the new, more precise MSN Search - try it > now! > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > text/html (html body -- converted) > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Ted at crystalgems.com Thu Jul 7 07:45:20 2005 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted) Date: Thu Jul 7 07:45:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Herkimer info please In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <007101c58302$78945f10$0200a8c0@gametime> I'll add a quick additional note to Greg's. Crystal Grove also rents out cabins (Last time I was there were two available). Crystal Grove usually maintains at least one and sometimes several bulldozed piles of dirt. There are definitely crystals worth sieving in this pile. Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Gslrocks@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 3:25 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Herkimer info please at Crystal grove there are campsites, RV hookups with pullthroughs and cabins available. The people who run it Evan and Cecily are very cordial, friendly and accomodating. There are some nice rocks to work on. We are there every memorial day weekend to runite with old friends and make new ones. We generally find a decent amount of material. There are wall pockets to discover unlike the 30 feet of overburden at Herkimer diamond development, which makes it workable. Thay also do not limit the size of the hammers you use! If you can use a 16-20 lb sledgehammer bring it! Along with some steel and prybars to move the rock. Last year our group found the largest pocket to date there with xtls 4-5 inches in them and many clusters and pockets in the rest of the rock. You can also dig there from 8 AM untill 8-8:30 pm if you are up to it for a mere $7.00 for adults and $5 for kids...the other mines let you in at nine and toss you out at 4 pm Greg Greg Lesinski GSLROCKS 4726 Porter Center Rd. Lewiston NY 14092 Fluorescent minerals, ultraviolet lamps and reference books authorized distributor and reseller for Way Too Cool lamps website www.gslrocks.com GSLROCKS@AOL.COM 716-754-9729 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Thu Jul 7 13:18:35 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Thu Jul 7 13:18:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] References: <000001c58263$139cbf20$abe4a5ce@D3JM7W21> <005301c58268$fa883f90$6401a8c0@nathanqa8gl7gx> Message-ID: <006101c58331$0d9657c0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Yeah, how about "synthetic oil?" I think it is still ultimately made from hydrocarbons that occur naturally in the earth. Of course, they could be made from landfill crud I suppose, but I don't think landfills produce more than methane. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Van" To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 4:26 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] >I came across an interesting website which may, or may not, alleviate your >fears. A often used grammatical construction, particularly if it has a >flaw, becomes an idiom. So a search revealed an excellent review. > > http://www.answers.com/topic/figure-of-speech > > It might also help to understand what "naturally occurring" really means > and the distinction from "synthetic", although a synthesist uses natural > laws to create something "artificial" from natural materials. Many of the > above words can be reduced to absurdity, as well. I particularly like > metonymy. > > Van > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Thu Jul 7 13:29:58 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Thu Jul 7 13:30:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Field Trip report and Kentucky mineral Question References: <20050706045815.63224.qmail@web30906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007601c58332$a4eb61a0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I am not sure where Helton, KY is, but there is nothing in KY that is 250' above sea level that I am aware of... The lowest elevations in the state are in the Purchase region of extreme western KY at the Mississippi River where the elevation is a 257'. There is a quarry below sea level near the Land-Between-the-Lakes, but that's not natural! Anyway, eastern KY is coal country and not known for minerals. There are limestone quarries in the Middle Mississippian Newman Limestone that occasionally have calcite, red chert, and the like. When you get closer to Lake Cumberland, you can start getting more vugs and geodes. Alan > I am going on a church mission trip to Helton, KY at the end of this > month. Helton is about 70 miles or so southwest of Hazard. During my free > time I plan to search the local streambed for any interesting minerals. > The town is at an elevation of about 250 feet above sea level. It is > surrounded by mountains with elevations of 1800'+. I figure whatever > minerals there are will be in that creek. Anyone have any ideas one what I > might expect to find, in particular? Anyone have info on nearby mineral > collecting? TIA. > > Neal From rec at piaskowy-cooper.com Thu Jul 7 18:01:26 2005 From: rec at piaskowy-cooper.com (Ralph Cooper) Date: Thu Jul 7 18:01:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: [Spam] Rockhounds Digest, Vol 14, Issue 7 Message-ID: <854042669@mail.shconsulting.com> I will be out of the office until July 18, 2005. I will respond to any emails or voice mail upon my return. Thank you, Ralph Cooper From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Thu Jul 7 18:28:26 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Thu Jul 7 18:28:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] cave photography Message-ID: <002301c5835c$56d385e0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I have mentioned the friend of mine who is one of the best cave photographers in the country. Here is an article in today's local paper. http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050707/COLUMNISTS13/507070371 If anyone is associated with a museum that can use a temporary exhibit related to nature and geology, let me know. The cave photography exhibit will be available for other venues and it is very inexpensive to rent! Alan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at verizon.net Fri Jul 8 11:15:02 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Jul 8 11:15:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Condolences for London Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050708080050.02597c70@incoming.verizon.net> Our hearts go out to all affected by the bombings in London. This brings back not only the horrible memories of 9-11 in New York, but also recollections of what Londoners endured during the Blitz, and their indomitable spirit. Aloha, Kitty & Bill From carroll4 at mindspring.com Fri Jul 8 13:38:05 2005 From: carroll4 at mindspring.com (Claudia Carroll) Date: Fri Jul 8 13:38:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Rockhound looking for info Message-ID: <410-2200575820385375@mindspring.com> Hello all, newbie rockhound here living in north Alabama. Have been collecting rocks and minerals for a while now but have never really been rockhounding. What I would like to ask is anyone know of any good rockhounding spots near me? Most books and such that I have seen aren't all that helpful, so I decided to come to the experts. I really appreciate any help you can provide. James Carroll --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dawnmfredricks at msn.com Fri Jul 8 16:24:30 2005 From: dawnmfredricks at msn.com (Dawn M. Fredricks) Date: Fri Jul 8 16:24:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] cave photography In-Reply-To: <002301c5835c$56d385e0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: Wow! That due take some very cool photos! Dawn Fredricks Portland Oregon   >From: "Alan Goldstein" <deepskyspy@insightbb.com> >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors"<rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> >To: <rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> >Subject: [Rockhounds] cave photography >Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 21:28:26 -0400 > >I have mentioned the friend of mine who is one of the best cave photographers in the country. Here is an article in today's local paper. >http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050707/COLUMNISTS13/507070371 >If anyone is associated with a museum that can use a temporary exhibit related to nature and geology, let me know. The cave photography exhibit will be available for other venues and it is very inexpensive to rent! > >Alan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From rec at piaskowy-cooper.com Fri Jul 8 18:26:55 2005 From: rec at piaskowy-cooper.com (Ralph Cooper) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:26:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: [Spam] Rockhounds Digest, Vol 14, Issue 8 Message-ID: <854109019@mail.shconsulting.com> ***AUTO RESPONSE*** I will be out of the office until July 18, 2005. I will respond to any emails or voice mail upon my return unless of course you are offering to… 1. Give me a free iPod, digital camera, or travel luggage. 2. Read my horoscope. 3. Improve my golf game. 4. Sell me prescriptions drugs without a doctor’s approval. 5. Approve my $550K loan in 24 hours 6. Refill my ink cartridges. 7. Mail me a college diploma. 8. Sell me land in Costa Rica. 9. Enlarge or shrink a body part. 10. Give me 20% of $42,000,000 if I help you transfer it from Nigeria. Thank you, Ralph Cooper From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Fri Jul 8 20:53:54 2005 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Wayne Rasmussen) Date: Fri Jul 8 20:54:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: [Spam] Rockhounds Digest, Vol 14, Issue 8 References: <854109019@mail.shconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001201c58439$d40e0ca0$675fe842@Titans> Ralph, ( Still laughing ), that is so true. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ralph Cooper" To: Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 7:26 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: [Spam] Rockhounds Digest, Vol 14, Issue 8 > ***AUTO RESPONSE*** > > I will be out of the office until July 18, 2005. I will respond to any > emails or voice mail upon my return unless of course you are offering to. > > 1. Give me a free iPod, digital camera, or travel luggage. > 2. Read my horoscope. > 3. Improve my golf game. > 4. Sell me prescriptions drugs without a doctor's approval. > 5. Approve my $550K loan in 24 hours > 6. Refill my ink cartridges. > 7. Mail me a college diploma. > 8. Sell me land in Costa Rica. > 9. Enlarge or shrink a body part. > 10. Give me 20% of $42,000,000 if I help you transfer it from Nigeria. > > Thank you, > > Ralph Cooper > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From kahako at verizon.net Fri Jul 8 21:02:27 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Jul 8 21:02:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Changing title (was Rockhounds Digest, Vol 14, Issue 80 In-Reply-To: <001201c58439$d40e0ca0$675fe842@Titans> References: <854109019@mail.shconsulting.com> <001201c58439$d40e0ca0$675fe842@Titans> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050708175931.025fdc60@incoming.verizon.net> Hi Wayne & Ralph, Yes, laughing too, but please change the title in the subject line---especially when you're on Digest. Aloha, Kitty At 05:53 PM 7/8/2005, you wrote: >Ralph, > >( Still laughing ), that is so true. >Wayne From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jul 8 22:14:03 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:25 2005 Subject: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: [Spam] Rockhounds Digest, Vol 14, Issue 8 References: <854109019@mail.shconsulting.com> <001201c58439$d40e0ca0$675fe842@Titans> Message-ID: <42CF59E1.3743@Tomaszewski.net> Wayne (and Ralph {and the List}), There are two big problems with autoresponders that reply to Internet email (instead of just to internal/personal/business/specific messages/addresses), and do not exempt subscribed Lists... The first is that they inappropriately respond to forged FROM addresses on spam, and virus/spyware infested messages, and autorespond to spam innocent folks. BTW, the internet spam stats for June showed between 85 and 95% of all email was spam or virus generated -- details varied depending on which expert you preferred. Second, and worse, they cause (slow) loops with any List subscriptions -- the reply to the list generates a posting, that creates another reply, that... Be thankful this is a daily Digest subscriber, and we only get one reply a day (instead of being mailbombed from every posting -- and waking up a List Admin {or - gasp! - a network Admin} to suspend {or block/terminate!} the subscriber). spam issues affect us all. Kreigh Wayne Rasmussen wrote: > > Ralph, > > ( Still laughing ), that is so true. > Wayne > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ralph Cooper" > To: > Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 7:26 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: [Spam] Rockhounds Digest, Vol 14, Issue 8 > > > ***AUTO RESPONSE*** > > > > I will be out of the office until July 18, 2005. I will respond to any > > emails or voice mail upon my return unless of course you are offering to. > > > > 1. Give me a free iPod, digital camera, or travel luggage. > > 2. Read my horoscope. > > 3. Improve my golf game. > > 4. Sell me prescriptions drugs without a doctor's approval. > > 5. Approve my $550K loan in 24 hours > > 6. Refill my ink cartridges. > > 7. Mail me a college diploma. > > 8. Sell me land in Costa Rica. > > 9. Enlarge or shrink a body part. > > 10. Give me 20% of $42,000,000 if I help you transfer it from Nigeria. > > > > Thank you, > > > > Ralph Cooper > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pchil at botsnet.bw Sat Jul 9 04:09:39 2005 From: pchil at botsnet.bw (P.C. Hulley) Date: Sat Jul 9 04:09:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Condolences for London References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050708080050.02597c70@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <002a01bf1dbe$7a374ee0$1a48a7a8@hulley> Our 8 months pregnant daughter lives near Kingscross, and uses that line every day. She left ten minutes early and just missed the blast. We couldn't reach her all day because the lines were busy, but one of our other family members in London managed to get hold of her and passed the message on. It only reached us about 12 hours later. Quite a worrying time. It never ceases to horrify me what people do in the name of religion! I would like to join Kitty in expressing my sympathy to all those affected by this mindless deed of violence. Hildagarde Hulley Botswana ----- Original Message ----- From: Kitty & Bill Heacox To: Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 8:15 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Condolences for London > Our hearts go out to all affected by the bombings in London. This brings > back not only the horrible memories of 9-11 in New York, but also > recollections of what Londoners endured during the Blitz, and their > indomitable spirit. > > Aloha, Kitty & Bill > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From batsondebelfry at yahoo.com Sat Jul 9 05:13:43 2005 From: batsondebelfry at yahoo.com (Neal Hazen) Date: Sat Jul 9 05:13:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Helton, KY Elevation Message-ID: <20050709121343.1217.qmail@web30908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This is for Alan Goldstein, Alan, you are correct. I had downloaded a section of topo map from Topozone. The printout quality was not 100%. Upon re-examination, I saw the elevation of the town was 1212' I should have realized this from the number of elevation lines between the valley and the hill peaks. However, it's been numerous years since I last looked at a topo map, and I'm re-educating myself. Thanks for pointing things out. Also, yes there are numerous coal mines in the vicinity. I wonder if there might be some good carboniferous age fossils to be collected, and if so what would one look for? Would you try splitting chunks of coal? Or would it be best to look for some shale? Neal Hazen "Some people learn through reading. A few others learn by observation. Most of us have to pee on the electric fence for ourselves." Will Rogers --------------------------------- Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny at lrream.com Sat Jul 9 11:33:01 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sat Jul 9 11:32:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] In-Reply-To: <42CC2A2D.3040202@att.net> References: <42CC2A2D.3040202@att.net> Message-ID: Hi Don, Sorry, don't agree. Self-collected is a perfectly acceptable use of the word "self" in this context, and it is not the only such use in the English language. How about "self-addressed envelope." I don't think any explanation is needed here for this very popular use of the word "self"; I expect just as many envelopes have addressed themselves as mineral specimens have collected themselves, yet no one seems to be having problems understanding the meaning. My old Websters International Dictionary unabridged lists "self-acquired" with a definition of "acquired for oneself." That looks like exactly the same usage as what we mean with a "self-collected" specimen (collected for oneself, or collected by oneself). That dictionary has "self-collected" in a long list of "self-" words, but does not define most of them. John White probably hasn't tackled this supposed grammatical problem because it is not a grammatical problem. If there is a problem with who collected the "self-collected" specimens in the Prospect Park article (which I haven't read yet), it probably isn't with the use of "self-collected," it is with the context of its use (not being near the name of the person). Regards, Lanny On Jul 6, 2005, at 11:59 AM, Don H wrote: > > Howdy, > > While reading the latest issue of Rocks & Minerals with a mixture of > emotions, I came across a term in the introduction to the article on > Propsect Park that inspired me to write a message to the editor. In > the interest of sharing my pedantic nature, I offer it below. > > Don > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M > Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 14:51:46 -0400 > From: Don H > To: Marie Huizing > > > Greetings, > > > I would like to point out an abomination that often appears in the > literature, and is not unique to this case, but given the circumstances > is as good a time as any to point out. This concerns the use of the > term "self-collected" specimens. As far as I know and believe, no > specimen ever collected itself; and if I saw that happen, I would check > my medications or check myself into a mental institution. Please > inform > the author that the proper use of the English language compels us to > say > "personally collected," or "collected by author," or in this particular > case, he could have avoided any redundancy by saying "specimens > collected by so-and-so." All specimens are collected by *someone*, so > even if the term "self-collected" weren't an atrocity of the English > language in its own right, that term isn't always clear as to the > actual > collector, depending on context. > > I'm suprised John White hasn't jumped on that one already--or perhaps > he > has, but I missed it. > > Thank you for your kind attention. > > > Very truly yours, > > Don J. Halterman, Jr. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From lanny at lrream.com Sat Jul 9 11:39:56 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sat Jul 9 11:39:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] In-Reply-To: <000001c58263$139cbf20$abe4a5ce@D3JM7W21> References: <000001c58263$139cbf20$abe4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: Hi Earl, I would say that "to 4 cm" does stand in opposition to "from 4 cm." Like people writing in English so often do, one or more words are left out. What the writer most likely meant is "occurs in crystals UP to 4 cm." (or "up to 4 cm in length") Whereas, "from 4 cm" would mean "from 4 cm up to xxx cm in length." I often have problems with the way "we" (as in our society) tends to leave out words or shorten so many things to acronyms, but "occurs to 4 cm" seems perfectly fine to me, I just hope I personally do put the "up" in there too. Regards, Lanny On Jul 6, 2005, at 12:44 PM, earl verbeek wrote: > > Yay, Don. Thanks for jumping on that one. While we're riding this > particular horse, another common abomination concerns crystal sizes, > as in > "occurs in crystals to 4 cm." What in the world does "crystals TO 4 > cm" > mean? Does it stand in opposition to "crystals from 4 cm"? Crystals > on 4 > cm? Crystals at 4 cm? I dunno. > > I suppose this is editorial shorthand for "occurs in crystals as much > as 4 > cm long", but it's nonsense, no matter often repeated. > > Earl the Curmudgeon > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Don H > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 3:00 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] > > > Howdy, > > While reading the latest issue of Rocks & Minerals with a mixture of > emotions, I came across a term in the introduction to the article on > Propsect Park that inspired me to write a message to the editor. In > the > interest of sharing my pedantic nature, I offer it below. > > Don > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M > Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 14:51:46 -0400 > From: Don H > To: Marie Huizing > > > Greetings, > > > I would like to point out an abomination that often appears in the > literature, and is not unique to this case, but given the circumstances > is as good a time as any to point out. This concerns the use of the > term "self-collected" specimens. As far as I know and believe, no > specimen ever collected itself; and if I saw that happen, I would check > my medications or check myself into a mental institution. Please > inform > the author that the proper use of the English language compels us to > say > "personally collected," or "collected by author," or in this particular > case, he could have avoided any redundancy by saying "specimens > collected by so-and-so." All specimens are collected by *someone*, so > even if the term "self-collected" weren't an atrocity of the English > language in its own right, that term isn't always clear as to the > actual > collector, depending on context. > > I'm suprised John White hasn't jumped on that one already--or perhaps > he > has, but I missed it. > > Thank you for your kind attention. > > > Very truly yours, > > Don J. Halterman, Jr. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sat Jul 9 11:48:22 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sat Jul 9 11:48:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Helton, KY Elevation References: <20050709121343.1217.qmail@web30908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003e01c584b6$c8500990$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I have not collected much in the coal areas. I hear about the best plants coming out of the roof shales, that is the shales above coal seams. Of course, access to coal mines is difficult at best. Road cuts are good places for sandstone cast plant material (Lepidodendron, Sigillaria, Stigmaria, Calamites) but not for carbonized plants in shale. If you find a rockfall associated with a coal seam in a road cut, that might offer possibilities. Remember to look in the shale, not the coal. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neal Hazen" To: Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 8:13 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Helton, KY Elevation > This is for Alan Goldstein, > > Alan, you are correct. I had downloaded a section of topo map from > Topozone. The printout quality was not 100%. Upon re-examination, I saw > the elevation of the town was 1212' I should have realized this from the > number of elevation lines between the valley and the hill peaks. However, > it's been numerous years since I last looked at a topo map, and I'm > re-educating myself. Thanks for pointing things out. Also, yes there are > numerous coal mines in the vicinity. I wonder if there might be some good > carboniferous age fossils to be collected, and if so what would one look > for? Would you try splitting chunks of coal? Or would it be best to look > for some shale? > > > > > Neal Hazen > > "Some people learn through reading. A few others learn by observation. > Most of us have to pee on the electric fence for ourselves." > Will Rogers > > --------------------------------- > Discover Yahoo! > Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out! > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From morningstar at att.net Sat Jul 9 12:07:24 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Sat Jul 9 12:00:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] In-Reply-To: References: <42CC2A2D.3040202@att.net> Message-ID: <42D0206C.1040204@att.net> Lanny wrote: > John White probably hasn't tackled this supposed grammatical problem > because it is not a grammatical problem. I must say I've been disappointed by the responses to this. For those unsure, I do know what it is supposed to mean! Also it IS a grammatical mistake, but obviously one that collectors have come to accept so readily that, as Van pointed out, it has become an idiom and no one even questions it any longer. However I was hoping a publication like R&M would want to hold out a higher standard. I was actually advised to avoid this term early on by a popular dealer and by serveral mineralogists and museum professionals. I was just going along with that advice. In any case Lanny, in a few weeks I'll be close enough that we can actually have a beer and do some self-collecting or personal collecting or collecting or whatever. Best, Don From lanny at lrream.com Sat Jul 9 13:57:45 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sat Jul 9 13:57:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] In-Reply-To: <42D0206C.1040204@att.net> References: <42CC2A2D.3040202@att.net> <42D0206C.1040204@att.net> Message-ID: <1922C058-F0BC-11D9-A615-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Hi Don, I didn't make a note from your "traveling to Moscow" message as to when you would be over this way, apparently it's coming right up. See you in a couple weeks, or whenever we can get together after you get settled. We need a grammatatician (or is it grammatician?), because I don't understand why you are saying that "self-collected" is incorrect, when "self-addressed," "self-acquired," and "self-induction" are in the dictionary, and all three of those involve something being done by other than the actual object it is being done to or by. (hope that makes sense) Regards, Lanny On Jul 9, 2005, at 12:07 PM, Don H wrote: > Lanny wrote: > >> John White probably hasn't tackled this supposed grammatical problem >> because it is not a grammatical problem. > > > I must say I've been disappointed by the responses to this. For those > unsure, I do know what it is supposed to mean! Also it IS a > grammatical mistake, but obviously one that collectors have come to > accept so readily that, as Van pointed out, it has become an idiom and > no one even questions it any longer. However I was hoping a > publication like R&M would want to hold out a higher standard. I was > actually advised to avoid this term early on by a popular dealer and > by serveral mineralogists and museum professionals. I was just going > along with that advice. > > In any case Lanny, in a few weeks I'll be close enough that we can > actually have a beer and do some self-collecting or personal > collecting or collecting or whatever. > > > Best, > Don > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From everbeek at nac.net Sat Jul 9 14:28:30 2005 From: everbeek at nac.net (earl verbeek) Date: Sat Jul 9 14:28:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] In-Reply-To: <42D0206C.1040204@att.net> Message-ID: <000001c584cd$2853f480$9fe4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Lanny wrote: > John White probably hasn't tackled this supposed grammatical problem > because it is not a grammatical problem. I must say I've been disappointed by the responses to this. For those unsure, I do know what it is supposed to mean! Also it IS a grammatical mistake, but obviously one that collectors have come to accept so readily that, as Van pointed out, it has become an idiom and no one even questions it any longer. However I was hoping a publication like R&M would want to hold out a higher standard. I was actually advised to avoid this term early on by a popular dealer and by serveral mineralogists and museum professionals. I was just going along with that advice. In any case Lanny, in a few weeks I'll be close enough that we can actually have a beer and do some self-collecting or personal collecting or collecting or whatever. Best, Don -------------------------- A few related comments on this subject (Sorry for their length!): In speaking or writing about minerals, whether as hobby or profession, we are not, in fact, free to adopt any style we choose. In everyday speech (and many e-mail messages) I employ some of the common idioms, and intentionally repeat some of the common mistakes, because people are more comfortable conversing in that style. Moreover, I don't wish always to appear as a "stuffy professional" (as perhaps I am right now). In formal publications such as R&M, however, attention to proper grammar is a responsibility, not a personal option -- yet many people seem to think mistakes are just fine as long as it's patently obvious what the author meant. They're not. Our language evolves through three principal means. First, the creation of new words is driven by the need to describe new devices, technologies, and concepts that didn't exist before. Second, an existing word can be employed in a new context, which can be fine if the new way is related to the old ones and there is no confusion in the definitions. The third process, though, is driven by cumulative ignorance and leads to use of words in contradiction of their definitions. Eventually the mistakes become so often repeated that dictionary authors just give up and put in the new meaning. In the words of one editor of a well-known dictionary, they strive to be "descriptive, not proscriptive". The evolution of a language through repeated misuse is not something to fill us with pride, or so I dearly hope. Here's an example, admittedly an extreme one: heretofore. Pick up a dictionary from the first half of the 20th century and it will give a definition something like "up to this time". But so many people mistakenly think that heretofore means "from this time forward" that at least one dictionary includes that meaning as well -- so now we have the ridiculous situation of a word being its own antonym. Our current horror is "healthy", and we are in risk of losing the word "healthful" altogether. There is no such thing as a healthy diet, or healthy food, or a healthy lifestyle; the correct word for all these things is "healthful". By definition "healthy" means possessing good health, whereas "healthful" means PROMOTING good health. If it's not alive it can't be healthy. Here's a word that is misused more than 95% of the time, both in formal and informal discourse, and we're supposed to think that's OK? Here's another one, from a book on grammar. The sentence "I only hit him in the eye yesterday" can have seven different meanings depending on where the word "only" is placed. Think about it. Yet again, in more than nine out of ten cases you'll find the word "only" misplaced in print, and the sentence does not mean what the author intended. Most often the intended meaning is obvious, but that doesn't make it right. A mistake repeated ten thousand times is still a mistake. Stepping off the soapbox now . . . Cheers- Earl From everbeek at nac.net Sat Jul 9 14:41:28 2005 From: everbeek at nac.net (earl verbeek) Date: Sat Jul 9 14:41:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] In-Reply-To: <1922C058-F0BC-11D9-A615-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <000501c584ce$f72873c0$9fe4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Lanny wrote: We need a grammatatician (or is it grammatician?), because I don't understand why you are saying that "self-collected" is incorrect, when "self-addressed," "self-acquired," and "self-induction" are in the dictionary, and all three of those involve something being done by other than the actual object it is being done to or by. (hope that makes sense) Lanny -- As I wrote in a previous post (which I was preparing as you were sending yours), dictionaries tend to be "descriptive, not proscriptive". That means that they'll include ALL common definitions of a word, both the ones that have long been regarded as correct and the more recent ones that are nothing more than monuments to cumulative ignorance. Please tattoo this on your forearm: Being in the dictionary doesn't make it right. To find the rules, what's right and what's wrong, you'll have to consult a text on grammar and/or technical writing: Strunk and White, GPO Style Manual, etc. Cheers- Earl From jaybates at rcn.com Sat Jul 9 14:58:32 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sat Jul 9 14:56:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] References: <000501c584ce$f72873c0$9fe4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <000701c584d1$59c8f2a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Self-collected is grammatically correct. However, it is not in common useage and is not in the dictionary. So its usage should be avoided as some have suggested. ----- Original Message ----- From: "earl verbeek" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 2:41 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] > > Lanny wrote: > > We need a grammatatician (or is it grammatician?), because I don't > understand why you are saying that "self-collected" is incorrect, when > "self-addressed," "self-acquired," and "self-induction" are in the > dictionary, and all three of those involve something being done by > other than the actual object it is being done to or by. (hope that > makes sense) > > Lanny -- > > As I wrote in a previous post (which I was preparing as you were sending > yours), dictionaries tend to be "descriptive, not proscriptive". That means > that they'll include ALL common definitions of a word, both the ones that > have long been regarded as correct and the more recent ones that are nothing > more than monuments to cumulative ignorance. Please tattoo this on your > forearm: Being in the dictionary doesn't make it right. > > To find the rules, what's right and what's wrong, you'll have to consult a > text on grammar and/or technical writing: Strunk and White, GPO Style > Manual, etc. > > Cheers- Earl > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jaybates at rcn.com Sat Jul 9 15:08:23 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sat Jul 9 15:06:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] References: <000501c584ce$f72873c0$9fe4a5ce@D3JM7W21> <000701c584d1$59c8f2a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <000501c584d2$b9e1aaa0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> By the way, I am going to continue to use "self-collected" because I cannot think of a better replacement wording. It reiminds me of the use of the term Mariposite which is frowned on by mineral collectors, but which I am going to continue to use because there is no better replacement name that people who are familiar with Mariposite would recognize. ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] > > Self-collected is grammatically correct. However, it is not in common useage > and is not in the dictionary. So its usage should be avoided as some have > suggested. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "earl verbeek" > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > > Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 2:41 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] > > > > > > Lanny wrote: > > > > We need a grammatatician (or is it grammatician?), because I don't > > understand why you are saying that "self-collected" is incorrect, when > > "self-addressed," "self-acquired," and "self-induction" are in the > > dictionary, and all three of those involve something being done by > > other than the actual object it is being done to or by. (hope that > > makes sense) > > > > Lanny -- > > > > As I wrote in a previous post (which I was preparing as you were sending > > yours), dictionaries tend to be "descriptive, not proscriptive". That > means > > that they'll include ALL common definitions of a word, both the ones that > > have long been regarded as correct and the more recent ones that are > nothing > > more than monuments to cumulative ignorance. Please tattoo this on your > > forearm: Being in the dictionary doesn't make it right. > > > > To find the rules, what's right and what's wrong, you'll have to consult a > > text on grammar and/or technical writing: Strunk and White, GPO Style > > Manual, etc. > > > > Cheers- Earl > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Gslrocks at aol.com Sat Jul 9 15:09:16 2005 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Sat Jul 9 15:09:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] Message-ID: <1ab.3b2a17f3.3001a50c@aol.com> i have some "reposeite" here....plenty of rock reposing in the yard! lol Greg Lesinski GSLROCKS 4726 Porter Center Rd. Lewiston NY 14092 Fluorescent minerals, ultraviolet lamps and reference books authorized distributor and reseller for Way Too Cool lamps website www.gslrocks.com GSLROCKS@AOL.COM 716-754-9729 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From morningstar at att.net Sat Jul 9 15:23:42 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Sat Jul 9 15:16:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] In-Reply-To: <1922C058-F0BC-11D9-A615-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> References: <42CC2A2D.3040202@att.net> <42D0206C.1040204@att.net> <1922C058-F0BC-11D9-A615-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> Message-ID: <42D04E6E.2000300@att.net> Lanny wrote: > Hi Don, > > I didn't make a note from your "traveling to Moscow" message as to when > you would be over this way, apparently it's coming right up. See you in > a couple weeks, or whenever we can get together after you get settled. I should be there by 2 August. Class starts on the 22nd. Since my education will be primarily funded by the State of Idaho, part of my four-year mission is to explore strange new sites, seek out new minerals and new formations, and go where no collector has gone before. As I noted previously, I will be sharing this information and will try to let people know about field trips. My advisor took me on a whirlwind tour and I collected some neat material from a number of nearby sites, just about all of it micro. Thanks to the friendship of local micromounters here--whose wisdom is neither to be overlooked nor underestimated--I immediately open my loupe when I pick up a rock, any rock, but especially for those that exhibit the least amount of texture where tiny species can hide. Thanks to others of great experience and knowledge, I also look at copper secondaries not as potential azurite or malachite, but as any one of a number of potential copper hydrates, hydroxides, or hydrated hydroxides. There may be more to discover. This is a whole new life and there are a lot of people in the collecting community who are directly or indirectly responsible for the inspiration to make this change. Don From morningstar at att.net Sat Jul 9 15:37:05 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (Don H) Date: Sat Jul 9 15:30:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] In-Reply-To: <000501c584d2$b9e1aaa0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> References: <000501c584ce$f72873c0$9fe4a5ce@D3JM7W21> <000701c584d1$59c8f2a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <000501c584d2$b9e1aaa0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <42D05191.9080007@att.net> jaybates wrote: > By the way, I am going to continue to use "self-collected" because I cannot > think of a better replacement wording. How about what I suggested--"personally collected"? Collected by author? Or collected by [name of person]? I suppose I really underestimated how near and dear this term is to some folks. A bit if trivia--my first degree was in English, so I pay attention to some things that many people don't even know are potential issues. It reiminds me of the use of the term > Mariposite which is frowned on by mineral collectors, but which I am going > to continue to use because there is no better replacement name that people > who are familiar with Mariposite would recognize. That's a different story for sure--as I understand it, mariposite is a rock, which is a mixture of minerals, not a mineral species; yet the suffix "-ite" is reserved for official mineral species. Therefore we have this as well as campbellite, youngite, and other "ites" that are either rocks or minor varieties but not true species. However, you are correct in saying that mariposite is an established term, and at this point it would be far more difficult to change it than to continue to accept its use and deal with the minor confusion caused by the suffix "ite." Thank goodness for the Internet, because a quick search can help reveal the nature of any mineral, rock, or varietal name. I tend to be an idealist but I realize, as many do, that we need to accept established terms that have a wide precedent in publication and cannot be easily disregarded. Don From jaybates at rcn.com Sat Jul 9 15:34:23 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sat Jul 9 15:32:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] References: <1ab.3b2a17f3.3001a50c@aol.com> Message-ID: <000701c584d6$5bb54000$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Sometimes it is better to leave reposing dogs lie. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] > i have some "reposeite" here....plenty of rock reposing in the yard! > lol > > > Greg Lesinski > GSLROCKS > 4726 Porter Center Rd. > Lewiston NY > 14092 > Fluorescent minerals, ultraviolet lamps and reference books > authorized distributor and reseller for Way Too Cool lamps > website www.gslrocks.com > GSLROCKS@AOL.COM > 716-754-9729 > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tjokela at execulink.com Sat Jul 9 14:41:20 2005 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Sat Jul 9 15:33:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] References: <000001c584cd$2853f480$9fe4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <000001c584d6$35eeaff0$6400a8c0@Junior> > In formal > publications such as R&M, however, attention to proper grammar is a > responsibility, not a personal option -- yet many people seem to think > mistakes are just fine as long as it's patently obvious what the author > meant. They're not. Er, we're talking about Rocks & Minerals here. The last issue discusses heliodor, when there's no such mineral, and puts a photo on the cover that's out of focus. Not a mag that's really famous for accuracy or thoroughness... I've always assumed the editor of R&M doesn't actually do much editing. I don't expect perfection, but the mag really needs some work; the term "self-collected" is really the least of the problems in R&M. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com From jaybates at rcn.com Sat Jul 9 16:24:20 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sat Jul 9 16:22:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] References: <000501c584ce$f72873c0$9fe4a5ce@D3JM7W21> <000701c584d1$59c8f2a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com><000501c584d2$b9e1aaa0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <42D05191.9080007@att.net> Message-ID: <000f01c584dd$564309c0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> When I am creating labels for a display case, brevity takes precedent over correctness. Admitedly I am probably trying to put too much information on one label. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don H" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] > jaybates wrote: > > By the way, I am going to continue to use "self-collected" because I cannot > > think of a better replacement wording. > > How about what I suggested--"personally collected"? Collected by > author? Or collected by [name of person]? I suppose I really > underestimated how near and dear this term is to some folks. A bit if > trivia--my first degree was in English, so I pay attention to some > things that many people don't even know are potential issues. > > It reiminds me of the use of the term > > Mariposite which is frowned on by mineral collectors, but which I am going > > to continue to use because there is no better replacement name that people > > who are familiar with Mariposite would recognize. > > That's a different story for sure--as I understand it, mariposite is a > rock, which is a mixture of minerals, not a mineral species; yet the > suffix "-ite" is reserved for official mineral species. Therefore we > have this as well as campbellite, youngite, and other "ites" that are > either rocks or minor varieties but not true species. However, you are > correct in saying that mariposite is an established term, and at this > point it would be far more difficult to change it than to continue to > accept its use and deal with the minor confusion caused by the suffix > "ite." Thank goodness for the Internet, because a quick search can help > reveal the nature of any mineral, rock, or varietal name. I tend to be > an idealist but I realize, as many do, that we need to accept > established terms that have a wide precedent in publication and cannot > be easily disregarded. > > Don > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at verizon.net Sat Jul 9 17:26:16 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Jul 9 17:26:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] In-Reply-To: <000501c584ce$f72873c0$9fe4a5ce@D3JM7W21> References: <1922C058-F0BC-11D9-A615-000393AC22E6@lrream.com> <000501c584ce$f72873c0$9fe4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050709140511.025eb108@incoming.verizon.net> At 11:41 AM 7/9/2005, Earl Verbeek wrote: > Being in the dictionary doesn't make it right. >Cheers- Earl I recall a scene in a Nero Wolff mystery where Archie enters the office and finds Wolff tearing every page out of a new dictionary in order to burn the entire book because it allowed "infer" and "imply" to be used interchangeably. However, after looking at The New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary and seeing 4 full pages of "self-" words and an explanation that self-(whatever) can mean "for" or "to" as well as "by" it seems to me that self-collected means "collected for oneself" just as "self-addressed" means "addressed to oneself." Can we get back to rocks now? Aloha, Kitty From rainforest1950 at lycos.com Sat Jul 9 18:14:15 2005 From: rainforest1950 at lycos.com (rain forest) Date: Sat Jul 9 18:14:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Topozone??? Message-ID: <20050710011415.0E878C6119@ws7-5.us4.outblaze.com> That is so wrong. Use Terraserver.com. Better yet go thru USAATlas; a free service of the USGS. It allows you to search by locale name with the option of viewing aerial photos. You can scroll east/west, nort/south, zoom in and out with both the maps and photos. It's just about the only tax supported site that is worthwhile. David Bese The Rainforest Hippie Pt. Orchard, Wa. "There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some reason in madness." "Turbulence is life force. It is opportunity. Let's love turbulence and use it for change." "Every time you don't follow your inner guidance, you feel a loss of energy, loss of power, a sense of spiritual deadness." -- _______________________________________________ NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com From rainforest1950 at lycos.com Sat Jul 9 18:20:30 2005 From: rainforest1950 at lycos.com (rain forest) Date: Sat Jul 9 18:20:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grammar Message-ID: <20050710012030.C5B1FC6119@ws7-5.us4.outblaze.com> Two points. The English language is one of the most confusing of all languages. Get over it! Second; much ado about nothing. David Bese The Rainforest Hippie Pt. Orchard, Wa. "There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some reason in madness." "Turbulence is life force. It is opportunity. Let's love turbulence and use it for change." "Every time you don't follow your inner guidance, you feel a loss of energy, loss of power, a sense of spiritual deadness." -- _______________________________________________ NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Sat Jul 9 18:31:09 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sat Jul 9 18:31:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Condolences for London In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050708080050.02597c70@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: Our hearts and prayers also. Glenn Wimpee >From: Kitty & Bill Heacox <kahako@verizon.net> > >Our hearts go out to all affected by the bombings in London. This >brings back not only the horrible memories of 9-11 in New York, but >also recollections of what Londoners endured during the Blitz, and >their indomitable spirit. > >Aloha, Kitty & Bill > ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Get MSN Messenger with Video Conversation - FREE. The next best thing to being there. ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From Cycadwood at aol.com Sat Jul 9 18:36:28 2005 From: Cycadwood at aol.com (Cycadwood@aol.com) Date: Sat Jul 9 18:36:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Topozone??? Message-ID: In a message dated 7/9/2005 7:14:36 PM Mountain Standard Time, rainforest1950@lycos.com writes: Better yet go thru USAATlas *****What is the website? Frank J. Daniels, publisher Western Colorado Publishing Company 2024 Freedom Court Grand Junction, Colorado 81503-9522 westerncolopub@aol.com 970.242.5255 Publisher of Petrified Wood: The World of Fossilized Wood, Ferns, Cones, and Cycads and the soon to be released Fossil Wood: A Closer Look at Ancient Forests. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Sat Jul 9 18:46:17 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sat Jul 9 18:46:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Rockhound looking for info In-Reply-To: <410-2200575820385375@mindspring.com> Message-ID: James, What kind of collecting are you interested in pursuing? Fossils are abundant, contact the Alabama Museum of natural history. Rocks and minerals also abound. Your best bet is to find your local rock and gem club and get the advice, experience, and knowledge of the group. You'll be able to go on field trips with them if you join. Lots of good advice will also come from this list, so you've already come to the right place! Good luck and please post often. Jeanette and I hope to get to that end of the state after school starts this fall. Glenn Wimpee >From: "Claudia Carroll" <carroll4@mindspring.com> > >Hello all, newbie rockhound here living in north Alabama. Have been collecting rocks and minerals for a while now but have never really been rockhounding. What I would like to ask is anyone know of any good rockhounding spots near me? Most books and such that I have seen aren't all that helpful, so I decided to come to the experts. > >I really appreciate any help you can provide. > >James Carroll > ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Download today's top songs at MSN Music from artists like U2, Eminem, & Kelly Clarkson ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From davisj at earthlink.net Sat Jul 9 19:00:17 2005 From: davisj at earthlink.net (Joe Davis) Date: Sat Jul 9 19:00:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grammar In-Reply-To: <20050710012030.C5B1FC6119@ws7-5.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: Right on David From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Sat Jul 9 19:06:20 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sat Jul 9 19:06:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] In-Reply-To: <000501c584d2$b9e1aaa0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: 2 questions please: What term should be used in place of self-collected? What is Mariposite? (I'll look on MINDAT) Glenn Wimpee >From: "jaybates" jaybates@rcn.com >By the way, I am going to continue to use "self-collected" because I cannot >think of a better replacement wording. It reiminds me of the use of the term >Mariposite which is frowned on by mineral collectors, but which I am going >to continue to use because there is no better replacement name that people >who are familiar with Mariposite would recognize. ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Find e-mail and documents on your PC instantly with the new MSN Search Toolbar–FREE! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From Ted at crystalgems.com Sat Jul 9 19:35:29 2005 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted) Date: Sat Jul 9 19:35:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point "What is self?"] In-Reply-To: <42D05191.9080007@att.net> Message-ID: <003501c584f7$e3bc8aa0$0200a8c0@gametime> Don and all: I am at a loss here. Perhaps my understanding of English is lacking... But, I've never known a rock, gem, or mineral to have a concept of "self" They have always been "it" to me. Self is a noun that refers to oneself; an individual, I the person! Rocks and other physical manifestations can not and are not "selves". The prefix use of self, "self-" refers to the actions of an individual person, so envelopes can be "self-addressed". If one seriously desired an envelope to write it's own address I would expect the term to be "it-addressed". A concept and wording that are doubtful in our current reality. Yes, perhaps the term "self-collected" is limiting. Particularly many years down the road when the self originally involved has moved on in existence leaving some other collector (also a self) trying to clarify who collected what where and when. In lingual amusement, Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Don H Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 6:37 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] jaybates wrote: > By the way, I am going to continue to use "self-collected" because I > cannot think of a better replacement wording. How about what I suggested--"personally collected"? Collected by author? Or collected by [name of person]? I suppose I really underestimated how near and dear this term is to some folks. A bit if trivia--my first degree was in English, so I pay attention to some things that many people don't even know are potential issues. From jaybates at rcn.com Sat Jul 9 21:03:54 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sat Jul 9 21:01:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point "What is self?"] References: <003501c584f7$e3bc8aa0$0200a8c0@gametime> Message-ID: <001301c58504$64322b20$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Self can also refer to inanimate objects such as a "self-loading rifle". In "self-collected" it is self-evident and that "self" refers to a person not a rock. "To thy own self be true. Though this be madness, yet there is method in 't." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 7:35 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point "What is self?"] > Don and all: > I am at a loss here. Perhaps my understanding of English is lacking... But, > > I've never known a rock, gem, or mineral to have a concept of "self" They > have always been "it" to me. > > Self is a noun that refers to oneself; an individual, I the person! Rocks > and other physical manifestations can not and are not "selves". The prefix > use of self, "self-" refers to the actions of an individual person, so > envelopes can be "self-addressed". If one seriously desired an envelope to > write it's own address I would expect the term to be "it-addressed". A > concept and wording that are doubtful in our current reality. > > Yes, perhaps the term "self-collected" is limiting. Particularly many years > down the road when the self originally involved has moved on in existence > leaving some other collector (also a self) trying to clarify who collected > what where and when. > > In lingual amusement, > Ted Kowalski > Fredericksburg, VA USA > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Don H > Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 6:37 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] > > > jaybates wrote: > > By the way, I am going to continue to use "self-collected" because I > > cannot think of a better replacement wording. > > How about what I suggested--"personally collected"? Collected by > author? Or collected by [name of person]? I suppose I really > underestimated how near and dear this term is to some folks. A bit if > trivia--my first degree was in English, so I pay attention to some > things that many people don't even know are potential issues. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Bobg532 at netscape.net Sat Jul 9 21:21:17 2005 From: Bobg532 at netscape.net (Bob G) Date: Sat Jul 9 21:21:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Topozone??? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42D0A23D.8070905@netscape.net> http://www.nationalatlas.gov/ and clicking on MAP MAKER will go to http://www.nationalatlas.gov/natlas/Natlasstart.asp The find feature will lead to Terraserver. Bob G. Cycadwood@aol.com wrote: > > >In a message dated 7/9/2005 7:14:36 PM Mountain Standard Time, >rainforest1950@lycos.com writes: > >Better yet go thru USAATlas > > >*****What is the website? > >Frank J. Daniels, publisher >Western Colorado Publishing Company >2024 Freedom Court >Grand Junction, Colorado 81503-9522 >westerncolopub@aol.com >970.242.5255 >Publisher of Petrified Wood: The World of Fossilized Wood, Ferns, Cones, and >Cycads and the soon to be released Fossil Wood: A Closer Look at Ancient >Forests. > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From jabac at hal-pc.org Sat Jul 9 23:05:58 2005 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Sat Jul 9 23:04:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Condolences for London In-Reply-To: <002a01bf1dbe$7a374ee0$1a48a7a8@hulley> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050708080050.02597c70@incoming.verizon.net> <002a01bf1dbe$7a374ee0$1a48a7a8@hulley> Message-ID: <1120975558.4861.46.camel@localhost> On Sun, 1999-10-24 at 03:24 +0200, P.C. Hulley wrote: > Our 8 months pregnant daughter lives near Kingscross, and uses that line > every day. She left ten minutes early and just missed the blast. We > couldn't reach her all day because the lines were busy, but one of our other > family members in London managed to get hold of her and passed the message > on. It only reached us about 12 hours later. Quite a worrying time. > It never ceases to horrify me what people do in the name of religion! I > would like to join Kitty in expressing my sympathy to all those affected by > this mindless deed of violence. > > Hildagarde Hulley > Botswana > Amen to that, except I do not believe it was really done in the name of any religion. That is a barbarian's excuse, no matter what organization he or she may profess. john From jabac at hal-pc.org Sat Jul 9 23:06:06 2005 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Sat Jul 9 23:04:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grammatics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1120975566.4861.47.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2005-07-07 at 10:26 +0200, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Trippedoverite? > > Axel What about the old favorite Leaverite, the opposite of Takealongite? All of which is "self-something-or-other". Anyway, language allows for both the absolutely correct rendition and the somewhat more colorful idiom. Scientific precision is needed only in the cause of serious non-ambiguity. To each his own. john From kahako at verizon.net Sat Jul 9 23:04:35 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Jul 9 23:04:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Condolences for London In-Reply-To: <002a01bf1dbe$7a374ee0$1a48a7a8@hulley> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050708080050.02597c70@incoming.verizon.net> <002a01bf1dbe$7a374ee0$1a48a7a8@hulley> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050709195802.03c151a0@incoming.verizon.net> Hildagarde, indeed what a worrying time you had! Thanks for joining in expressing horror and sympathy. (BTW, you need to change the date on your computer, as it indicates your message was sent in October, 1999.) Aloha, Kitty At 03:24 PM 10/23/1999, you wrote: >Our 8 months pregnant daughter lives near Kingscross, and uses that line >every day. She left ten minutes early and just missed the blast. We >couldn't reach her all day because the lines were busy, but one of our other >family members in London managed to get hold of her and passed the message >on. It only reached us about 12 hours later. Quite a worrying time. >It never ceases to horrify me what people do in the name of religion! I >would like to join Kitty in expressing my sympathy to all those affected by >this mindless deed of violence. > >Hildagarde Hulley >Botswana From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 9 23:00:41 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Sat Jul 9 23:06:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] References: <000501c584ce$f72873c0$9fe4a5ce@D3JM7W21> <000701c584d1$59c8f2a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <002101c58515$8ded3e30$78f1edc1@mpc1> > Self-collected is grammatically correct. However, it is not in common > useage > and is not in the dictionary. So its usage should be avoided as some have > suggested. For me, the main problem with "self-collected" is nothing to do with whether rocks have self or any other grammatical nicety, but it's the use of it as a substitute for "collected." Surely if I say "I collected it" the implication is that I collected it myself. I don't need to say - as, to my amazement, some people do - that "I self-collected it." I am happy enough that someone can boast that their collection is "entirely self-collected" as the implication is clearly that they personally collected them all in the field, i.e. they're not acquired by gift or purchase, they actually went out there in the cold and wet (we're talking British collectors here) and got their hands dirty and their backs sore. But, when this concept becomes a method of collecting ("to self-collect") I have a problem. It smacks of redundancy and sloppy thinking. Mick From jabac at hal-pc.org Sat Jul 9 23:09:01 2005 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Sat Jul 9 23:07:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] In-Reply-To: <000001c584cd$2853f480$9fe4a5ce@D3JM7W21> References: <000001c584cd$2853f480$9fe4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <1120975741.4861.51.camel@localhost> On Sat, 2005-07-09 at 17:28 -0400, earl verbeek wrote: > A few related comments on this subject (Sorry for their length!): > > In speaking or writing about minerals, whether as hobby or profession, we > are not, in fact, free to adopt any style we choose. In everyday speech > (and many e-mail messages) I employ some of the common idioms, and > intentionally repeat some of the common mistakes, because people are more > comfortable conversing in that style. Moreover, I don't wish always to > appear as a "stuffy professional" (as perhaps I am right now). In formal > publications such as R&M, however, attention to proper grammar is a > responsibility, not a personal option -- yet many people seem to think > mistakes are just fine as long as it's patently obvious what the author > meant. They're not. > Certainly true in description and context of the mineral itself, but not necessarily, even rarely, true for all the ancillaries. > Here's an example, admittedly an extreme one: heretofore. Pick up a > dictionary from the first half of the 20th century and it will give a > definition something like "up to this time". But so many people mistakenly > think that heretofore means "from this time forward" that at least one > dictionary includes that meaning as well -- so now we have the ridiculous > situation of a word being its own antonym. > Considerable time has elapsed between the definitions. Time promotes change in language, especially powerful language (v. political terms) whether we like it or not. we cannot fault the language of today just because our grandfathers spoke and wrote differently, even radically differently. Today we need Bullfinch for stories and their meanings to understand classical allusions, and annotated Shakespeare not to mention Chaucer. Shortly, we may need something like them for Victorian prose as well. Grammar follows usage, not vice versa. The problem may be that the rate of change is so great now-a-days that the grammar cannot keep up, even if it were being widely and effectively taught, which unfortunately it is not. Further, I perceive that you are falling back on something you learned as a young man, which may have been sound advice, but which is not in Strunk & White. The editor is responsible for published style, not the author. You rightly take the editor to task; but you must also allow him to defend himself. Which I think is the point and the end of this discourse. john From tam2819 at cox.net Sat Jul 9 23:37:54 2005 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Sat Jul 9 23:37:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Condolences for London In-Reply-To: <1120975558.4861.46.camel@localhost> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050708080050.02597c70@incoming.verizon.net> <002a01bf1dbe$7a374ee0$1a48a7a8@hulley> <1120975558.4861.46.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <32d212520f1b55c947b94426d22738f8@cox.net> Hildegarde, My heart is with you and yours. There is no wordly or outerwordly justification for this insane madness. The innocent family and/or friends of missing Londoners, holding photos in hopes of a word to relieve their fears is sad beyond all sad. This madness must stop. My deep felt sorrow to the British peoples and their government in this horrendous display of men gone mad. Terrie From rockhound at btinternet.com Sun Jul 10 02:47:36 2005 From: rockhound at btinternet.com (Neil A) Date: Sun Jul 10 02:47:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] - American English In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Self collected is a term I have no problem understanding, and I am English. I am not American English, which is a term I could really get my teeth into. Petrol is not Gas, gas is a state of existance. American English is not a language, it is a dialect. If you understand what the speaker meant you to understand, don't righteously correct them, just nod politely and get on with the hobby... Self (ego) = id therefore think of it as "this is a rock id collected" All it has is a missing apostrophe to be self collected. Regards Neil A From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sun Jul 10 04:59:05 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sun Jul 10 04:59:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] -American English In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200507101159.j6ABx73Q014453@outmx017.isp.belgacom.be> Dear friends, I have the impression that during my one-month absence the target of this list has changed. Since my return last week-end 95 % of what was posted had nothing to do with mineralogy. Please let's return to our selfs... euh shelfs loaded with minerals. Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ From kadok at infowest.com Sun Jul 10 08:45:06 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sun Jul 10 08:45:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M]-American English In-Reply-To: <200507101159.j6ABx73Q014453@outmx017.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: <20050710154501.7A419A1060@marbella.infowest.com> Right on, Rik! Back to rocks! Margaret Dear friends, I have the impression that during my one-month absence the target of this list has changed. Since my return last week-end 95 % of what was posted had nothing to do with mineralogy. Please let's return to our selfs... euh shelfs loaded with minerals. Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 10 08:50:21 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sun Jul 10 08:50:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point "What is self?"] In-Reply-To: <003501c584f7$e3bc8aa0$0200a8c0@gametime> Message-ID: <20050710155021.82481.qmail@web51001.mail.yahoo.com> Sometimes a deviation from correct grammar can avoid an awkward circumlocution, such as "personally collected by oneself" in this case. I'm reminded of Winston Churchill's example of what you might have to go through to avoid ending a sentence with a preposition:"This is a situation up with which I will not put". Jim Daly --- Ted wrote: > Don and all: > I am at a loss here. Perhaps my understanding of > English is lacking... But, > > I've never known a rock, gem, or mineral to have a > concept of "self" They > have always been "it" to me. > > Self is a noun that refers to oneself; an > individual, I the person! Rocks > and other physical manifestations can not and are > not "selves". The prefix > use of self, "self-" refers to the actions of an > individual person, so > envelopes can be "self-addressed". If one seriously > desired an envelope to > write it's own address I would expect the term to be > "it-addressed". A > concept and wording that are doubtful in our current > reality. > > Yes, perhaps the term "self-collected" is limiting. > Particularly many years > down the road when the self originally involved has > moved on in existence > leaving some other collector (also a self) trying to > clarify who collected > what where and when. > > In lingual amusement, > Ted Kowalski > Fredericksburg, VA USA > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On > Behalf Of Don H > Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 6:37 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock > and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in > latest issue of R&M] > > > jaybates wrote: > > By the way, I am going to continue to use > "self-collected" because I > > cannot think of a better replacement wording. > > How about what I suggested--"personally collected"? > Collected by > author? Or collected by [name of person]? I > suppose I really > underestimated how near and dear this term is to > some folks. A bit if > trivia--my first degree was in English, so I pay > attention to some > things that many people don't even know are > potential issues. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Sun Jul 10 10:17:56 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sun Jul 10 10:17:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:Barbarian rockheads Message-ID: Believe it. This extremeist group has enough faith in its religion to sacrifice lives of its own youth to commit these insane acts of terrorism on innocents. And in the name of religious "jihad". These are decendants of the Moors and Barbary Pirates and have historicly demanded all to live by their religious laws or die or be enslaved to them. We can defend ourselves or surrender to them. They live amongst rocks (OT) and we must not have our heads in the sand (again OT). Glenn Wimpee >Amen to that, except I do not believe it was really done in the name of >any religion. That is a barbarian's excuse, no matter what organization >he or she may profess. > > >john > ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Ready for kickoff? Sign up for Fox Fantasy Football powered by MSN. FREE to play! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From afox at drizzle.com Sun Jul 10 10:29:39 2005 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Sun Jul 10 10:29:41 2005 Subject: ADMIN [Rockhounds] Re:Barbarian rockheads In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Okay, we're getting close to the line here. Let's please move the discussion back to rocks. Aaron Fox Rockhounds Admin > Believe it. > > > > This extremeist group has enough faith in its religion to sacrifice lives of its own youth to commit these insane acts of terrorism on innocents. > > And in the name of religious "jihad". > > These are decendants of the Moors and Barbary Pirates and have historicly demanded all to live by their religious laws or die or be enslaved to them. > > We can defend ourselves or surrender to them. > > They live amongst rocks (OT) and we must not have our heads in the sand (again OT). > Glenn Wimpee > > > >Amen to that, except I do not believe it was really done in the name of > >any religion. That is a barbarian's excuse, no matter what organization > >he or she may profess. > > > > > >john > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > Ready for kickoff? Sign up for Fox Fantasy Football powered by MSN. FREE to play! > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > text/html (html body -- converted) > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From dmschmidt at sprint.ca Sun Jul 10 10:46:27 2005 From: dmschmidt at sprint.ca (michael schmidt) Date: Sun Jul 10 10:46:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:Barbarian rockheads References: Message-ID: <005701c58577$4c7f9800$6d5d5318@johnny> is there any moderation on this list? what does this have ANYTHING to do with Geology??? just becuase you throw the word "rock" into the post, doesn't mean it is rock related. this is NOT a list to be discussing topics such as this. I thought it was the rockhounds list, and not a list for discussing jihads. or did i miss something? enough off topic crap. get back to geology. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Wimpee" To: Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 10:17 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:Barbarian rockheads > Believe it. > > > > This extremeist group has enough faith in its religion to sacrifice lives of its own youth to commit these insane acts of terrorism on innocents. > > And in the name of religious "jihad". > > These are decendants of the Moors and Barbary Pirates and have historicly demanded all to live by their religious laws or die or be enslaved to them. > > We can defend ourselves or surrender to them. > > They live amongst rocks (OT) and we must not have our heads in the sand (again OT). > Glenn Wimpee > > > >Amen to that, except I do not believe it was really done in the name of > >any religion. That is a barbarian's excuse, no matter what organization > >he or she may profess. > > > > > >john > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > Ready for kickoff? Sign up for Fox Fantasy Football powered by MSN. FREE to play! > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > text/html (html body -- converted) > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockcurrier at cs.com Sun Jul 10 11:54:50 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Sun Jul 10 11:49:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Self Collected, crystals to 4 cm etc. References: <200507100101.j6A11JNg005906@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <001201c58580$ec0a6720$2eeaa5d8@rock5> In the article on Prospect Park, was there anyone on the list that did not understand the meaning of those terms as the author used them? It is an amateur magazine after all. If the amateur magazines used the same rigorous terminology as the professional journals I suspect that the amateur readership would desert in droves and the magazine would fold. Rocks & Minerals is certainly not as rigorous as the American Mineralogist, but to many in the "metaphysical world" to whom Melody's "Love in the Earth" type books are the bible, it is the equivalent of the American Mineralogist. Love is in the Earth and its companion volumes, depressingly, outsell John Sinkankas's, Mineralogy by over 100 to one. Probably several hundred to one. In some respects we are already way out there on the ragged edge of radical correctness and I am beginning to feel that we should probably not push it any further, at least if we want to be able to interact with normal people. Rock From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sun Jul 10 12:28:37 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun Jul 10 12:28:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] fossil pix Message-ID: <007a01c58585$921f3330$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Since the last week has been devoid of almost anything related to geology, I thought I would provide a link with photos and information on fossils I collected last month for your perusal. See the entry "Results of Recent Fossil Collecting..." at this web address: http://www.lakeneosho.org/Paleolist.html I collected a 100 pounds of sub-soil from rock weathering in the zone where the Devonian corals come out and have spread them out in some planting trays to let "Dennis" wash them out as he works through the Ohio Valley this week. Alan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From BNMJEFF at aol.com Sun Jul 10 12:39:00 2005 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Sun Jul 10 12:39:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Self Collected, crystals to 4 cm etc. Message-ID: <92.2a8a685c.3002d354@aol.com> self-collected, self-addressed and any other "self" combination, are accepted forms of contractions in this day and age. If one would oppose the use of them, then they should also oppose the use of can't, don't, wouldn't, etc. There is enough to be said with the written word about mineralogy, why make it more cumbersome? Jeff PS. Melody's book is not my bible, but it can be fun :) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pbhewitt at comcast.net Sun Jul 10 18:03:25 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Sun Jul 10 18:03:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] molecular weight? References: <20050528183127.36770.qmail@web81409.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003401c585b4$582c6880$6701a8c0@delllaptop> At www.webmineral.com they have a comprehensive a-z list of minerals with more info than I will ever need. I am curious about the composition of a mineral where they say " Molecular Weight = 162.05 gm" for andalusite, kyanite, and sillimanite which is not surprising since they are a polymorph. I would like to know what the number 162.05 gm means in plain english. When I added up the atomic weights of the 8 atoms in the molecule I came up with 80. Why the discrepancy? Are they 2 entirely different things? Paul in Marietta From Lapidry at aol.com Sun Jul 10 18:46:33 2005 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Sun Jul 10 18:46:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] molecular weight? Message-ID: <102.64b0d424.30032979@aol.com> In a message dated 7/10/2005 9:04:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, pbhewitt@comcast.net writes: At www.webmineral.com they have a comprehensive a-z list of minerals with more info than I will ever need. I am curious about the composition of a mineral where they say " Molecular Weight = 162.05 gm" for andalusite, kyanite, and sillimanite which is not surprising since they are a polymorph. I would like to know what the number 162.05 gm means in plain english. When I added up the atomic weights of the 8 atoms in the molecule I came up with 80. Why the discrepancy? Are they 2 entirely different things? Paul in Marietta Paul: The molecular weight is the combination of protons, neutrons and electrons. Not just protons, as the atomic number represents. Andalusite is Al2SiO5 = (26.98154(Al) x 2) + (28.0855(Si) x 1) + (15.9994(O) x 5) = 162.04558, if expressed in atomic mass, as opposed to atomic number, representing only protons, which would equal 80. This represents one mole of the material, which is roughly 6.02 x 10 to the 23rd molecules, Avegradro's number. Hope this helps... Dan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From t.kloprogge at qut.edu.au Sun Jul 10 18:57:05 2005 From: t.kloprogge at qut.edu.au (Theo Kloprogge) Date: Sun Jul 10 18:57:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] molecular weight? In-Reply-To: <003401c585b4$582c6880$6701a8c0@delllaptop> References: <20050528183127.36770.qmail@web81409.mail.yahoo.com> <003401c585b4$582c6880$6701a8c0@delllaptop> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050711115300.02b6b8e8@pop.qut.edu.au> Hi Paul, The calculation is based on rounded weights for the elements. Al = 26.982, Si = 28.086, O = 15.999. So molecular weight is 2 x 26.982 + 28.0086 + 5 x 15.999 = 162.045 grams/mol Al2SiO5. Cheers Theo At 11:03 AM 11/07/2005, you wrote: At www.webmineral.com they have a comprehensive a-z list of minerals with more info than I will ever need. I am curious about the composition of a mineral where they say {quot} Molecular Weight = 162.05 gm{quot} for andalusite, kyanite, and sillimanite which is not surprising since they are a polymorph. I would like to know what the number 162.05 gm means in plain english. When I added up the atomic weights of the 8 atoms in the molecule I came up with 80. Why the discrepancy?  Are they 2 entirely different things? Paul in Marietta _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ {quot}Each atom of that stone, each mineral flake of that night-filled mountain, in itself form a world. The struggle itself towards the heights is enough to fill a man`s heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy{quot} (from The myth of Sisyphus, Camus) Dr. J.T. Kloprogge Inorganic Materials Research Group School of Physical and Chemical Sciences Room E508, Gardens Point Campus, Queensland University of Technology CRICOS No: 00213J 2 George Street GPO Box 2434 Brisbane Q4001 Australia tel: +61 7 3864 2184 fax: +61 7 3864 1804 email: t.kloprogge@qut.edu.au (private theoloes@bigpond.net.au) http://src.sci.qut.edu.au/programs/inorganic_materials Adjunct Professor, Dept. Geosciences, Texas Tech University, Lubbock, Texas, U.S. Secretary General Assocation Internationale pour l'Etude d'Argile (International Association for the study of clays) Check out my mineralogy website at: http://labs.sci.qut.edu.au/minerals/general%20introduction/introduction.htm For copies of manuscripts Please go to QUT eprint http://eprints.qut.edu.au/view/person/Kloprogge,_Theo.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From pbhewitt at comcast.net Sun Jul 10 19:14:26 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Sun Jul 10 19:14:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] molecular weight? References: <102.64b0d424.30032979@aol.com> Message-ID: <004e01c585be$4386df00$6701a8c0@delllaptop> You guys rock! I knew someone (pl) would have the answer! Paul in Marietta ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 9:46 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] molecular weight? > > In a message dated 7/10/2005 9:04:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, > pbhewitt@comcast.net writes: > > At www.webmineral.com they have a comprehensive a-z list of minerals with > more info than I will ever need. I am curious about the composition of a > mineral where they say " Molecular Weight = 162.05 gm" for andalusite, > kyanite, and sillimanite which is not surprising since they are a > polymorph. > I would like to know what the number 162.05 gm means in plain english. > When > I added up the atomic weights of the 8 atoms in the molecule I came up > with > 80. Why the discrepancy? Are they 2 entirely different things? > > Paul in Marietta > > > Paul: > > The molecular weight is the combination of protons, neutrons and > electrons. > Not just protons, as the atomic number represents. Andalusite is Al2SiO5 = > (26.98154(Al) x 2) + (28.0855(Si) x 1) + (15.9994(O) x 5) = 162.04558, if > expressed in atomic mass, as opposed to atomic number, representing only > protons, > which would equal 80. This represents one mole of the material, which is > roughly 6.02 x 10 to the 23rd molecules, Avegradro's number. > > Hope this helps... > > Dan > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From xossfs at yahoo.com Mon Jul 11 06:50:44 2005 From: xossfs at yahoo.com (Stephen Stover) Date: Mon Jul 11 06:50:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Spruce Pine / hiddenite N.C. In-Reply-To: <92.2a8a685c.3002d354@aol.com> Message-ID: <20050711135044.41282.qmail@web33403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I am on a trip inot western north Carolina and am looking for some good Beryl hunting locals. Possibilites of Aqua, Emerald, and helidor if possible. Are there any fee locations for real rockhounds, not buckets of salted dirt. Was very dissappointed at Spruce Pine two days ago. Got into emerald village and the museum and mine tour were great but just salted buckets. I want real hunting not canned hunts. Any idea would be nice. i am heading for the Colburn (sp?) collection in Asevile today. Sincerely, Stepehn Stover Stephen F. Stover PH (281) 829-1102 xossfs@yahoo.com Wanting to hunt rocks and play games every day! __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail for Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail From betdav97 at aol.com Mon Jul 11 07:00:36 2005 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Mon Jul 11 07:00:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Spruce Pine / hiddenite N.C. In-Reply-To: <20050711135044.41282.qmail@web33403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8C754380C044D06-630-9D75@mblk-d32.sysops.aol.com> Hi Steve, Try the Ray Mine, since you are in that area anyway. They had a good deal of rain earlier this year and new areas may be revealed. Instead of digging, look for the feldspar boulders, there is usually beryl in them. Local rockhound maps can direct you to the mine, good hunting, Dave -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Stover To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 06:50:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Rockhounds] Spruce Pine / hiddenite N.C. I am on a trip inot western north Carolina and am looking for some good Beryl hunting locals. Possibilites of Aqua, Emerald, and helidor if possible. Are there any fee locations for real rockhounds, not buckets of salted dirt. Was very dissappointed at Spruce Pine two days ago. Got into emerald village and the museum and mine tour were great but just salted buckets. I want real hunting not canned hunts. Any idea would be nice. i am heading for the Colburn (sp?) collection in Asevile today. Sincerely, Stepehn Stover Stephen F. Stover PH (281) 829-1102 xossfs@yahoo.com Wanting to hunt rocks and play games every day! __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail for Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From balarson63 at cableone.net Mon Jul 11 09:24:52 2005 From: balarson63 at cableone.net (Brad Larson) Date: Mon Jul 11 09:10:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Wamsutter, WY area and look for turritella agate Message-ID: <1121099092_3956@S3.cableone.net> Hello All, My son and I are planning on going to the Wamsutter, WY area to hunt the special turritella agate, but need directions from Wamsutter on how to get to the location. We will be staying in Rawlins in the evenings and back to Wamsutter during the days. What are the directions or if anyone has a map that they drew and could email me at balarson63@cableone.net that would be great. Thanks all for your help in advanced. We are leaving the 25th of July this year 2005. Thanks again, Brad Larson Nampa, Idaho. From tim at orerockon.com Mon Jul 11 09:37:27 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Jul 11 09:37:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Wamsutter, WY area and look for turritella agate In-Reply-To: <1121099092_3956@S3.cableone.net> References: <1121099092_3956@S3.cableone.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050711093409.0262c2b8@mail.spiritone.com> Any new drill pad in the area will be better collecting than the area in the Wyoming Falcon guide. I got a bucket in 15 minutes at a new one south of the exit west of Little America last year, but I am sure that is all gone (it was piled up by the road and was half gone by the time I got there in mid-June). I suggest inquiring at the rock shop in Rock Springs (don't recall the name anymore). I was told that new drill pads are springing up at the rate of several a summer in that general area. At 09:24 AM 7/11/2005, you wrote: >Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary >Content-Disposition: inline > > >Hello All, > >My son and I are planning on going to the Wamsutter, WY area to hunt the >special >turritella agate, but need directions from Wamsutter on how to get to the >location. We will be staying in Rawlins in the evenings and back to Wamsutter >during the days. > >What are the directions or if anyone has a map that they drew and could >email me >at balarson63@cableone.net that would be great. > >Thanks all for your help in advanced. We are leaving the 25th of July >this year >2005. > >Thanks again, > >Brad Larson >Nampa, Idaho. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From balarson63 at cableone.net Mon Jul 11 09:52:46 2005 From: balarson63 at cableone.net (Brad Larson) Date: Mon Jul 11 09:52:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Wamsutter, WY area and look for turritella Message-ID: <1121100766_461@S1.cableone.net> Tim, Thanks for the heads up. I would like to go out to the main site, but you say it is all over the area. Thanks again, Brad Larson Nampa, ID P.S. Your OREROCKON CD is GREAT!!! >Any new drill pad in the area will be better collecting than the area in >the Wyoming Falcon guide. I got a bucket in 15 minutes at a new one south >of the exit west of Little America last year, but I am sure that is all >gone (it was piled up by the road and was half gone by the time I got there >in mid-June). I suggest inquiring at the rock shop in Rock Springs (don't >recall the name anymore). I was told that new drill pads are springing up >at the rate of several a summer in that general area. > >At 09:24 AM 7/11/2005, you wrote: >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary >>Content-Disposition: inline >> >> >>Hello All, >> >>My son and I are planning on going to the Wamsutter, WY area to hunt the >>special >>turritella agate, but need directions from Wamsutter on how to get to the >>location. We will be staying in Rawlins in the evenings and back to Wamsutter >>during the days. >> >>What are the directions or if anyone has a map that they drew and could >>email me >>at balarson63@cableone.net that would be great. >> >>Thanks all for your help in advanced. We are leaving the 25th of July >>this year >>2005. >> >>Thanks again, >> >>Brad Larson >>Nampa, Idaho. > >Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com >Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From albalmer at att.net Mon Jul 11 10:52:15 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Mon Jul 11 10:52:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Wamsutter, WY area and look for turritella agate In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050711093409.0262c2b8@mail.spiritone.com> References: <1121099092_3956@S3.cableone.net> <6.2.1.2.2.20050711093409.0262c2b8@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <42D2B1CF.8040403@att.net> Tim Fisher wrote: > Any new drill pad in the area will be better collecting than the area in > the Wyoming Falcon guide. I got a bucket in 15 minutes at a new one > south of the exit west of Little America last year, but I am sure that > is all gone (it was piled up by the road and was half gone by the time I > got there in mid-June). I suggest inquiring at the rock shop in Rock > Springs (don't recall the name anymore). I was told that new drill pads > are springing up at the rate of several a summer in that general area. OK, I'll bite. What's a drill pad? > > At 09:24 AM 7/11/2005, you wrote: > >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary >> Content-Disposition: inline >> >> >> Hello All, >> >> My son and I are planning on going to the Wamsutter, WY area to hunt >> the special >> turritella agate, but need directions from Wamsutter on how to get to the >> location. We will be staying in Rawlins in the evenings and back to >> Wamsutter >> during the days. >> >> What are the directions or if anyone has a map that they drew and >> could email me >> at balarson63@cableone.net that would be great. >> >> Thanks all for your help in advanced. We are leaving the 25th of >> July this year >> 2005. >> >> Thanks again, >> >> Brad Larson >> Nampa, Idaho. > > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Mon Jul 11 14:16:07 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Mon Jul 11 14:18:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] fossil pix In-Reply-To: <007a01c58585$921f3330$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> References: <007a01c58585$921f3330$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <42D2E197.5080306@tenforward.com> Hi Alan, Lots of good reading here, thank you! John Alan Goldstein wrote: >Since the last week has been devoid of almost anything related to geology, I thought I would provide a link with photos and information on fossils I collected last month for your perusal. See the entry "Results of Recent Fossil Collecting..." at this web address: http://www.lakeneosho.org/Paleolist.html > >I collected a 100 pounds of sub-soil from rock weathering in the zone where the Devonian corals come out and have spread them out in some planting trays to let "Dennis" wash them out as he works through the Ohio Valley this week. > >Alan > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From bj9709 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 11 14:56:16 2005 From: bj9709 at yahoo.com (Brett Allen Johnson) Date: Mon Jul 11 14:57:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for some Construction Plans... Message-ID: <20050711215617.85472.qmail@web41009.mail.yahoo.com> I have started a Nice Collection of Radioactive Minerals and Products. I need to construct a Display Case for uses at the many Gem & Mineral shows I attend. Would any one have Building Plans, Instructions on the Dimensions, and/or the Construction of a Standard Display Case? Thank you for your time, Brett FTC-OGMS ____________________________________________________ Sell on Yahoo! Auctions ? no fees. Bid on great items. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From jr50wv at yahoo.com Mon Jul 11 18:29:49 2005 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Mon Jul 11 18:29:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collecting in Western NC Message-ID: <20050712012950.13456.qmail@web41007.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Steve: Here's a link to Mike Streeter's McRocks site, there's a message board and directions to and discussions of many collecting locales in western NC. http://www.mcrocks.com/ JR in VE ____________________________________________________ Sell on Yahoo! Auctions ? no fees. Bid on great items. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Jul 11 21:05:41 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Jul 11 21:01:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for some Construction Plans... References: <20050711215617.85472.qmail@web41009.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42D340B1.173A@Tomaszewski.net> Brett Allen Johnson wrote: > > I have started a Nice Collection of Radioactive > Minerals and Products. > I need to construct a Display Case for uses at the > many Gem & Mineral shows I attend. > > Would any one have Building Plans, Instructions on the > Dimensions, and/or the Construction of a Standard > Display Case? > > Thank you for your time, Brett FTC-OGMS Brett, Talk to the dealers at shows. See what they like or dislike about their different types of cases. You will probably find one or two that have an extra case, or few, they would like to sell, and you can use it for a model. Some of the better cases I have seen are large enough to hold two standard flats on top, under a glass cover hinged at the customer end, above a drawer that holds another two flats. When you find a good one, see if the dealer will let you take a few measurements. If not, make estimates, a drawing (take a picture), and work out the details when you get home. The nice thing about standards is that there are so many. First you need to figure out which standard display case you like. Kreigh From wdeanwelder at yahoo.com Tue Jul 12 08:10:22 2005 From: wdeanwelder at yahoo.com (Dean Welder) Date: Tue Jul 12 08:10:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Big Sur Jade Festival Message-ID: <20050712151022.25470.qmail@web51101.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, Does anybody know if there are any planned collecting trips that coincide with the Big Sur Jade Festival in October? Thanks, Dean __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html From rockcurrier at cs.com Tue Jul 12 19:46:06 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Tue Jul 12 19:40:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Display Cases References: <200507130102.j6D12ptY007089@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <010001c58755$04e343e0$2eeaa5d8@rock5> Bret, I don't know where you are, but the Mineralogical Society of Southern California is offering its excess Pony Cases for sale for $100 each. Even if you have the plans for a display case the cost of the materials would more than likely cost you more than that. The bad news is that they probably would not ship the case to you, you would have to pick it up or arrange to pick it up. Are you thinking perhaps of building a case that takes into consideration the nature of the radioactive material you wish to display? Leaded glass and lead lined interior or something like that? Rock ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 6:02 PM Subject: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 14, Issue 12 Send Rockhounds mailing list submissions to rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com You can reach the person managing the list at rockhounds-owner@lists.drizzle.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Rockhounds digest..." [Rockhounds-Digest] Today's Topics: 1. Collecting in Western NC (J. R. Hodel) 2. Re: Looking for some Construction Plans... (Kreigh Tomaszewski) 3. Big Sur Jade Festival (Dean Welder) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 18:29:49 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. R. Hodel" Subject: [Rockhounds] Collecting in Western NC To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Message-ID: <20050712012950.13456.qmail@web41007.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hi Steve: Here's a link to Mike Streeter's McRocks site, there's a message board and directions to and discussions of many collecting locales in western NC. http://www.mcrocks.com/ JR in VE ____________________________________________________ Sell on Yahoo! Auctions - no fees. Bid on great items. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 00:05:41 -0400 From: Kreigh Tomaszewski Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Looking for some Construction Plans... To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <42D340B1.173A@Tomaszewski.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Brett Allen Johnson wrote: > > I have started a Nice Collection of Radioactive > Minerals and Products. > I need to construct a Display Case for uses at the > many Gem & Mineral shows I attend. > > Would any one have Building Plans, Instructions on the > Dimensions, and/or the Construction of a Standard > Display Case? > > Thank you for your time, Brett FTC-OGMS Brett, Talk to the dealers at shows. See what they like or dislike about their different types of cases. You will probably find one or two that have an extra case, or few, they would like to sell, and you can use it for a model. Some of the better cases I have seen are large enough to hold two standard flats on top, under a glass cover hinged at the customer end, above a drawer that holds another two flats. When you find a good one, see if the dealer will let you take a few measurements. If not, make estimates, a drawing (take a picture), and work out the details when you get home. The nice thing about standards is that there are so many. First you need to figure out which standard display case you like. Kreigh ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 08:10:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Dean Welder Subject: [Rockhounds] Big Sur Jade Festival To: PetWood-YG , Rockhound-YG , Rockhounds-YG , rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com, RockhoundsList-YG , RockhoundsRocks-YG , LaRocks-YG Message-ID: <20050712151022.25470.qmail@web51101.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hi, Does anybody know if there are any planned collecting trips that coincide with the Big Sur Jade Festival in October? Thanks, Dean __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Rockhounds mailing list Rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds End of Rockhounds Digest, Vol 14, Issue 12 ****************************************** From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 12 22:26:27 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Tue Jul 12 22:26:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Display Cases References: <200507130102.j6D12ptY007089@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <010001c58755$04e343e0$2eeaa5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <000b01c5876b$6be11250$78f1edc1@mpc1> > consideration the nature of the radioactive material you wish to display? > Leaded glass and lead lined interior or something like that? I believe the main problem with radioactives isn't the direct radiation from the specimen - it's the radon gas. Ventilation is more important that a lead lining. Mick From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Jul 13 11:15:50 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Jul 13 11:15:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Display Cases In-Reply-To: <000b01c5876b$6be11250$78f1edc1@mpc1> Message-ID: and I'd wash my hands thoroughly after handling them ;-))) Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Mick Cooper Verzonden: woensdag 13 juli 2005 7:26 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Display Cases > consideration the nature of the radioactive material you wish to display? > Leaded glass and lead lined interior or something like that? I believe the main problem with radioactives isn't the direct radiation from the specimen - it's the radon gas. Ventilation is more important that a lead lining. Mick _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 13 11:36:16 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Wed Jul 13 11:36:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcano story Message-ID: <20050713183616.59753.qmail@web51009.mail.yahoo.com> A little incident that shows how much kids retain about rocks, etc.... My great-grandson Cody has been interested in rocks since he was old enough to walk. When we returned from Hawaii in May I gave him a piece of iridescent lava that I had collected there. This, of course, stimulated a barrage of questions, which I answered, and I showed pictures in a book I had brought home, and some I had taken. Last week was Cody's 7th birthday. His aunt supplied the birthday cake, which had a volcano on it, with red lava erupting and flowing into the sea. When Cody saw it, he said "It's a beutiful cake, Aunt Bonnie, but there's a technical error- when lava hits the ocean it cools down and turns black- you have it red even in the water!" Jim Daly ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From jaybates at rcn.com Wed Jul 13 13:05:16 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Wed Jul 13 13:03:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire References: <003501c584f7$e3bc8aa0$0200a8c0@gametime> <001301c58504$64322b20$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <000701c587e6$308b71c0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> OK, all you smart people. You want to talk about rocks! Explain what is happening at this "hot spot" found last summer by a crew putting out a forest fire near Santa Barbara. Jay http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/mcrocks/vpost?id=535224 ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 9:03 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point "What is self?"] > Self can also refer to inanimate objects such as a "self-loading rifle". In > "self-collected" it is self-evident and that "self" refers to a person not a > rock. "To thy own self be true. Though this be madness, yet there is method > in 't." > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ted" > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > > Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 7:35 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point "What is self?"] > > > > Don and all: > > I am at a loss here. Perhaps my understanding of English is lacking... > But, > > > > I've never known a rock, gem, or mineral to have a concept of "self" They > > have always been "it" to me. > > > > Self is a noun that refers to oneself; an individual, I the person! Rocks > > and other physical manifestations can not and are not "selves". The prefix > > use of self, "self-" refers to the actions of an individual person, so > > envelopes can be "self-addressed". If one seriously desired an envelope to > > write it's own address I would expect the term to be "it-addressed". A > > concept and wording that are doubtful in our current reality. > > > > Yes, perhaps the term "self-collected" is limiting. Particularly many > years > > down the road when the self originally involved has moved on in existence > > leaving some other collector (also a self) trying to clarify who collected > > what where and when. > > > > In lingual amusement, > > Ted Kowalski > > Fredericksburg, VA USA > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Don H > > Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 6:37 PM > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] > > > > > > jaybates wrote: > > > By the way, I am going to continue to use "self-collected" because I > > > cannot think of a better replacement wording. > > > > How about what I suggested--"personally collected"? Collected by > > author? Or collected by [name of person]? I suppose I really > > underestimated how near and dear this term is to some folks. A bit if > > trivia--my first degree was in English, so I pay attention to some > > things that many people don't even know are potential issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From morningstar at att.net Wed Jul 13 13:16:10 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Wed Jul 13 13:16:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire Message-ID: <071320052016.20978.42D57689000D0F3C000051F221604666489D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "jaybates" > Explain what is > happening at this "hot spot" found last summer by a crew putting out a > forest fire near Santa Barbara. Jay > > http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/mcrocks/vpost?id=535224 Hi, How could even the wisest person explain this without access to the site or access to any specific data captured from the site? There could be any number of reasons; but the earth is an active and volatile place, so such as thing as this shouldn't be surprising. Don From albalmer at att.net Wed Jul 13 13:34:11 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Jul 13 13:34:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire In-Reply-To: <000701c587e6$308b71c0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> References: <003501c584f7$e3bc8aa0$0200a8c0@gametime> <001301c58504$64322b20$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <000701c587e6$308b71c0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <42D57AC3.8000709@att.net> jaybates wrote: > OK, all you smart people. You want to talk about rocks! Explain what is > happening at this "hot spot" found last summer by a crew putting out a > forest fire near Santa Barbara. Jay Here's a reference to a news piece about this.: http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/news/12112572.htm From jaybates at rcn.com Wed Jul 13 13:49:30 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Wed Jul 13 13:47:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire References: <003501c584f7$e3bc8aa0$0200a8c0@gametime> <001301c58504$64322b20$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com><000701c587e6$308b71c0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <42D57AC3.8000709@att.net> Message-ID: <000501c587ec$5e7cdc80$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Here is a better reference that rules out volcanic activity, burning coal or petroleum: http://cbs5.com/local/local_story_192210803.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Balmer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 1:34 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire > jaybates wrote: > > OK, all you smart people. You want to talk about rocks! Explain what is > > happening at this "hot spot" found last summer by a crew putting out a > > forest fire near Santa Barbara. Jay > > Here's a reference to a news piece about this.: > http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/news/12112572.htm > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From dawnmfredricks at msn.com Wed Jul 13 18:38:41 2005 From: dawnmfredricks at msn.com (Dawn M. Fredricks) Date: Wed Jul 13 18:38:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire In-Reply-To: <000501c587ec$5e7cdc80$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: I must admit, I do the the Portal to Hell theory! Dawn   >From: "jaybates" <jaybates@rcn.com> > >Here is a better reference that rules out volcanic activity, burning coal or >petroleum: > >http://cbs5.com/local/local_story_192210803.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From tome61 at aol.com Wed Jul 13 19:45:07 2005 From: tome61 at aol.com (tome61@aol.com) Date: Wed Jul 13 19:45:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Condolences for My British Brothers and Sisters In-Reply-To: <200507100101.j6A11JNg005906@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200507100101.j6A11JNg005906@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <8C756352DFA8FD0-C50-195CB@mblk-r41.sysops.aol.com> I have been back and forth to London more than five (5) times in the last two years and feel a strong connection with that city, its people and all that it has to offer. I was horrified to hear what happened earlier this week, especially in light of the fact that London, more than most other cities, has really got its act together when its comes to security and surveillance, etc. My deepest sympathies to any and all who were affected, even remotely, by those tragic events. Of course, I was 3 blocks from WTC on 9/11 and also there when the blast happened three years earlier, so I'm becoming quite used to seeing or hearing about terrorist-inspired tragedies. Needless to say, I'm not proud of that fact. Warmest Regards, my prayers and sympathies, Tom Russell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From webmaster at opalvalley.com Wed Jul 13 22:53:25 2005 From: webmaster at opalvalley.com (webmaster@opalvalley.com) Date: Wed Jul 13 22:53:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] GEOLOGY AND MINING HISTORY FIELD TRIP- JOHNSONDALE AREA Message-ID: <006a01c58838$59f80620$751c7b43@OPALVALLEY> GEOLOGY AND MINING HISTORY - JOHNSONDALE AREA July 23, 2005 Sponsored by Buena Vista Museum of Natural History and the U.S. Bureau of Land Management This program examines the history of the western face of the Sierra Nevada and the roof pendants in the Johnsondale Area and the North Branch of the Kern River and the Kern River Fault. We return to Bakersfield by way of California Hot Springs. This program starts at the Dam Corner Restaurant in Lake Isabella at 8:00 AM. There will be an optional swimming opportunity at California Hot Springs Itinerary 8:00 AM Dam Corner Restaurant 8:30 AM Keyes Mine 9:30 AM Keysville Hydraulic Pit 10:00 AM Kernville 10:30 AM Trout Hatchery 12:30 AM Johnsondale Bridge 1:00 PM Johnsondale 2:00 PM Parker Pass 2:30 PM California Hot Springs 4:00 PM Fountain Springs 5:00 PM Bakersfield end of field trip Registration fees are $10 per person per day, or $25 per vehicle per day, which ever is less. Make your check payable to "Buena Vista Museum of Natural History" and mail to BVMNH, 2018 Chester Ave., Bakersfield, CA 93301. Charge card payments may be made by calling 661-324-6350. If you have any questions about these field trip programs call Dr. Gregg Wilkerson at (661) 391 6081 or contact the Museum directly at 661-324-6350. You will be asked to sign a "Hold Harmless" agreement before the field trip begins. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Jul 14 08:52:54 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Jul 14 08:52:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire In-Reply-To: <000701c587e6$308b71c0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: OK, I'll pretend to belong to the smart people goup ;-))) The story mentiones that the crew who reported the incident was or had been putting out a forest fire. Sometimes forest fires burn their way under ground and flare up hundreds of meters or even miles away from where a smoldering piece of wood was not quite thoroughly drenched with water. Plant remains often form a spongy layer that can burn or smolder for days. I'll admit that 11 feet is rather deep but it would explain the high temperature. 2 cents worth from Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens jaybates Verzonden: woensdag 13 juli 2005 22:05 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire OK, all you smart people. You want to talk about rocks! Explain what is happening at this "hot spot" found last summer by a crew putting out a forest fire near Santa Barbara. Jay http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/mcrocks/vpost?id=535224 ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 9:03 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point "What is self?"] > Self can also refer to inanimate objects such as a "self-loading rifle". In > "self-collected" it is self-evident and that "self" refers to a person not a > rock. "To thy own self be true. Though this be madness, yet there is method > in 't." > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ted" > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > > Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 7:35 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point "What is self?"] > > > > Don and all: > > I am at a loss here. Perhaps my understanding of English is lacking... > But, > > > > I've never known a rock, gem, or mineral to have a concept of "self" They > > have always been "it" to me. > > > > Self is a noun that refers to oneself; an individual, I the person! Rocks > > and other physical manifestations can not and are not "selves". The prefix > > use of self, "self-" refers to the actions of an individual person, so > > envelopes can be "self-addressed". If one seriously desired an envelope to > > write it's own address I would expect the term to be "it-addressed". A > > concept and wording that are doubtful in our current reality. > > > > Yes, perhaps the term "self-collected" is limiting. Particularly many > years > > down the road when the self originally involved has moved on in existence > > leaving some other collector (also a self) trying to clarify who collected > > what where and when. > > > > In lingual amusement, > > Ted Kowalski > > Fredericksburg, VA USA > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Don H > > Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 6:37 PM > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] > > > > > > jaybates wrote: > > > By the way, I am going to continue to use "self-collected" because I > > > cannot think of a better replacement wording. > > > > How about what I suggested--"personally collected"? Collected by > > author? Or collected by [name of person]? I suppose I really > > underestimated how near and dear this term is to some folks. A bit if > > trivia--my first degree was in English, so I pay attention to some > > things that many people don't even know are potential issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Jul 14 09:02:49 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Jul 14 09:02:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Self Collected... Message-ID: <071420051602.23592.42D68CA900006ED800005C28215876672007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Dear Rockhounds, my two cents worth... (I've been busy these last couple weeks, and I've been slow to read all the posts on this thread. Thought I'd catch up and make a comment; since as an editor of Rocks & Minerals, I thought I should offer a thought or two on the "self-collected" matter.) Seems to me that there's an indefinite line between using correct English, and allowing new expressions to creep into (or sometimes, I guess they explode into) the language. If the phrase doesn't cause ambiguity and confusion, who's to say we shouldn't use it? After all, this is what makes a language "alive" and dynamic; as is often said, only a language not used any more will reamain totally static and "dead". If we didn't allow such changes (as if we have any control over this; they happen anyway, and who's going to stop them once they get into common use by news media, etc., or even just "on the street"), and we kept our language invariant, we'd all be talking exactly the way Shakespeare wrote, and that has not exactly happened. [I studied Latin as my high school language; anyone remember the old rhyme, Latin is a language as dead as it can be. First it killed the Romans and now it's killing me. I like _____'s post, pointing out what idioms are and how they become part of our languages. [Darn, I must have gone and accidently deleted that email, I can't find it to say who posted it.] But a P.S., that Answer.com item definition of Figures of Speech, wow, heavy stuff, in that two-line definition, it manages to use at least 3 words that I have TOTALLY never heard of or would at least certainly have no clue how to use them or exactly what they mean. [synecdoche, anaphora, and chiasmus--which I guess must refer respecitively to a feminine hygiene product, jars the ancient Greeks and Phonecians kept wine in and... heaven knows about chiasmus. I won't even try to touch "assonance", though it must related to some domesticated equine and/or some part of its anatomy.] So, getting back to the specific phrase in question "self-collected", I think this term has become part of our mineral collectors' vocabulary, and I really don't see any problem in using it, even in print in a formal article. I can't imagine that it would ever really cause anyone confusion as to what it means; no one is REALLY going to think that the minerals collected themselves. Though I will certainly agree with Mick that saying someone self-collected it himself, is definitely going over the line. So, to Don and to my favorite curmudgeon friend Earl, I certainly appreciate your valient efforts to safeguard the purity of the language, but I think you are fighting an uphill battle. If you find your comments unappreciated around here, you might of course consider going to France, where they do take preservation of the true and uncontaminated language very seriously. Myself, one of the phrases I used to rail against was, describing mineral specimens as being "very aesthetic", since very few specimens are thoughtful enough to have those kinds of feelings; but I've pretty much given up on that one. As a more universal example, I've always tried to keep hammering that "data" are plural and correcting it wherever I see it; but I'm starting to get weary of fighting the good fight there, too. And, oh heck, even "up to" ( X cm), everybody really knows what that means too, why fuss about it? Cheers to all, and remember, buy and use a good dictionary, it will help you to reed and right good. Pete -------------- Original message from "Rock Currier" : -------------- > In the article on Prospect Park, was there anyone on the list that did not > understand the meaning of those terms as the author used them? It is an > amateur magazine after all. If the amateur magazines used the same rigorous > terminology as the professional journals I suspect that the amateur > readership would desert in droves and the magazine would fold. Rocks & > Minerals is certainly not as rigorous as the American Mineralogist, but to > many in the "metaphysical world" to whom Melody's "Love in the Earth" type > books are the bible, it is the equivalent of the American Mineralogist. Love > is in the Earth and its companion volumes, depressingly, outsell John > Sinkankas's, Mineralogy by over 100 to one. Probably several hundred to one. > In some respects we are already way out there on the ragged edge of radical > correctness and I am beginning to feel that we should probably not push it > any further, at least if we want to be able to interact with normal people. > Rock > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jaybates at rcn.com Thu Jul 14 09:37:59 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Thu Jul 14 09:36:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire References: Message-ID: <000901c58892$66217a80$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Axel, good 2 cents worth. However I don't think that is the answer for a number of reasons. One, the firefighters and scientists involved in the hot spot are aware of such possibilites as roots burning underground. Many years ago I spent a number of summers as a fire fighter in the western states. We were aware of burning roots and did our best to put them out. Sometimes in a very few instances, they would continue to burn underground through the winter, but in all cases of which I am aware they only burned in an isolated spot, not over an area of two football fields. What you say may be correct in forests with a thick mat of duff (vegatative mat on the ground) but the forest as seen in the photos does not have a thick mat of duff. Actually the ground looks more like the Arizona desert than a temperate forest. The forests north of Santa Barbara are very hot and dry places in the summer and the trees do not produce much ground litter. I live in California and I am familiar with the California forests. I am beginning to wonder whether the site may be a hot spot that was unusually near the surface and that are usually associated with hot springs and the hot spot was exposed by a landslide. I have a very difficult time believing it is a chemical reaction caused by various minerals in the rocks exposed by a landslide. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 8:52 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire > OK, I'll pretend to belong to the smart people goup ;-))) > > The story mentiones that the crew who reported the incident was or had been > putting out a forest fire. > Sometimes forest fires burn their way under ground and flare up hundreds of > meters or even miles away from where a smoldering piece of wood was not > quite thoroughly drenched with water. > > Plant remains often form a spongy layer that can burn or smolder for days. > I'll admit that 11 feet is rather deep but it would explain the high > temperature. > > 2 cents worth from > > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens jaybates > Verzonden: woensdag 13 juli 2005 22:05 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire > > > OK, all you smart people. You want to talk about rocks! Explain what is > happening at this "hot spot" found last summer by a crew putting out a > forest fire near Santa Barbara. Jay > > http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/mcrocks/vpost?id=535224 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jaybates" > To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock > and gem collectors" > Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 9:03 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point "What is self?"] > > > > Self can also refer to inanimate objects such as a "self-loading rifle". > In > > "self-collected" it is self-evident and that "self" refers to a person not > a > > rock. "To thy own self be true. Though this be madness, yet there is > method > > in 't." > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ted" > > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 7:35 PM > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point "What is self?"] > > > > > > > Don and all: > > > I am at a loss here. Perhaps my understanding of English is lacking... > > But, > > > > > > I've never known a rock, gem, or mineral to have a concept of "self" > They > > > have always been "it" to me. > > > > > > Self is a noun that refers to oneself; an individual, I the person! > Rocks > > > and other physical manifestations can not and are not "selves". The > prefix > > > use of self, "self-" refers to the actions of an individual person, so > > > envelopes can be "self-addressed". If one seriously desired an envelope > to > > > write it's own address I would expect the term to be "it-addressed". A > > > concept and wording that are doubtful in our current reality. > > > > > > Yes, perhaps the term "self-collected" is limiting. Particularly many > > years > > > down the road when the self originally involved has moved on in > existence > > > leaving some other collector (also a self) trying to clarify who > collected > > > what where and when. > > > > > > In lingual amusement, > > > Ted Kowalski > > > Fredericksburg, VA USA > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Don H > > > Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 6:37 PM > > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of > R&M] > > > > > > > > > jaybates wrote: > > > > By the way, I am going to continue to use "self-collected" because I > > > > cannot think of a better replacement wording. > > > > > > How about what I suggested--"personally collected"? Collected by > > > author? Or collected by [name of person]? I suppose I really > > > underestimated how near and dear this term is to some folks. A bit if > > > trivia--my first degree was in English, so I pay attention to some > > > things that many people don't even know are potential issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Jul 14 09:41:00 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Jul 14 09:41:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grammer/ Self Collected/... Message-ID: <071420051641.1600.42D6959C0004274E00000640215876672007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Dear Rockhounds, P.S. (and shifting this to a slightly new vein), some of the comments in Rock's post about language reminded me of some observations when I took a group of teachers on a tour of the (very excellent, by the way) Colorado School of Mines Geology Museum just the day before yesterday. Relating to communicating clearly with the general public and not "using the same rigorous terminology as the professional journals", the group I took to the museum was a group of K-12 science teachers for whom I was giving a basic two-day course in "rocks and minerals". Some had a moderately good background in geology and minerals, and some were quite new to it and were seeing and reading about many of these minerals for the first time. I was amused at how a number of the teachers, puzzled, asked me about the several specimens of beautiful, pink or green crystals on display in the museum, labelled "elbaite". They thought they looked a lot like tourmaline. When we got back to the classroom this did lead to a very useful (I think) discussion about mineral groups, species, and varieties, but the bottom line is, I think this is an example of where our technically precise terminology is overused, and museums and other mineral exhibitions do a disservice to their visitors by using exclusively the names like "elbaite", whereas the average visitor, if they relate to the mineral names at all, is much more likely to recognize and make connections with "tourmaline" than "elbaite" or "liddicoatite". I say this will all due respect and apologies to John White and his columns about the redundancy of "spessartine garnet", but I think the value to the average viewer much outweighs the theoretical technical correctness, and it would be much better to, in some form, include the words "tourmaline" or "garnet" in the labelling of any such specimens on public display. I guess I think that this emphasis (should I say, obsession) with "mineral species" names has been carried too far. As far as I am concerned, if one really needs to deal with the specific matters of the exact chemical composition of a mineral--such as in calculating thermochemical properties or phase relationships--then one should of course be precise in specifying the exact names of the end-member compositions one is dealing with; but for more general situations, such as of displaying specimens in a museum or at a show, the general name is more more useful, pertinent, and understandable, and I really think we should just label specimens as apophyllite, hornblende, scapolite, and stilbite, etc. and NOT plague the viewer with "fluorapophyllite", "magnesiohornblende", "meionite", and "stilbite-Ca". Sincerely, Pete Modreski "Friends don't let friends use words that nobody knows what the heck they mean." -------------- Original message from "Rock Currier" : -------------- > ...and I am beginning to feel that we should probably not push it > any further, at least if we want to be able to interact with normal people. > Rock > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From morningstar at att.net Thu Jul 14 10:42:41 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Thu Jul 14 10:42:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grammer/ Self Collected/... Message-ID: <071420051742.19839.42D6A4100001688500004D7F21602807419D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> > but for more general > situations, such as of displaying specimens in a museum or at a show, the > general name is more more useful, pertinent, and understandable, and I really > think we should just label specimens as apophyllite, hornblende, scapolite, and > stilbite, etc. and NOT plague the viewer with "fluorapophyllite", > "magnesiohornblende", "meionite", and "stilbite-Ca". I would generally agree, with two caveats. First, of course, is that the true name, if known, should be included in the catalog entry for such specimens. Second, if possible, there can be explanatory text with more correct information in it, in smaller print and beneath the main header. It has taken me some time to overcome the lack of precise information, and in some cases misinformation, attendant upon mineral specimens. Personally, I felt cheated that I wasn't getting exact information. You can always discard or ignore information you don't want; but you can't deal with information that isn't there. I don't believe in dumbing down, that's the bottom line. I do believe in adaptive information, that is, you can present information in layers so that it appeals to all levels of recipient--this was the success of Shakespeare. By making people aware of the more detailed levels of information available to them, you inspire them to grow and learn and transcend themselves. In reaching for the stars, we might just touch the sky. Don From albalmer at att.net Thu Jul 14 10:46:44 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Jul 14 10:46:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire In-Reply-To: <000901c58892$66217a80$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> References: <000901c58892$66217a80$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <42D6A504.8000201@att.net> jaybates wrote: > Axel, good 2 cents worth. > > However I don't think that is the answer for a number of reasons. One, the > firefighters and scientists involved in the hot spot are aware of such > possibilites as roots burning underground. Many years ago I spent a number > of summers as a fire fighter in the western states. We were aware of burning > roots and did our best to put them out. Sometimes in a very few instances, > they would continue to burn underground through the winter, but in all cases > of which I am aware they only burned in an isolated spot, not over an area > of two football fields. What you say may be correct in forests with a thick > mat of duff (vegatative mat on the ground) but the forest as seen in the > photos does not have a thick mat of duff. Actually the ground looks more > like the Arizona desert than a temperate forest. The forests north of Santa > Barbara are very hot and dry places in the summer and the trees do not > produce much ground litter. I live in California and I am familiar with the > California forests. > > I am beginning to wonder whether the site may be a hot spot that was > unusually near the surface and that are usually associated with hot springs > and the hot spot was exposed by a landslide. I have a very difficult time > believing it is a chemical reaction caused by various minerals in the rocks > exposed by a landslide. > My understanding is that hot spots of that type are usually much cooler. This phenomenon makes me think of the underground coal mines that sometimes burn for decades. From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Jul 14 11:31:47 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Jul 14 11:31:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grammer/ Self Collected/... In-Reply-To: <071420051742.19839.42D6A4100001688500004D7F21602807419D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: >By making people aware of the more detailed levels of information available to them, you inspire them to grow and learn >and transcend themselves. In reaching for the stars, we might just touch the sky. So true, so well said... Respect! Otoh: we should remember to pan our gaze from the stars to the people downstairs every now and then... they tend to give up sooner than we care to believe if we get to serious ;-))) But in general: yes... if we respect the thin line between dumbing down and simplifying. Cheers Don Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens morningstar@att.net Verzonden: donderdag 14 juli 2005 19:43 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Grammer/ Self Collected/... > but for more general > situations, such as of displaying specimens in a museum or at a show, the > general name is more more useful, pertinent, and understandable, and I really > think we should just label specimens as apophyllite, hornblende, scapolite, and > stilbite, etc. and NOT plague the viewer with "fluorapophyllite", > "magnesiohornblende", "meionite", and "stilbite-Ca". I would generally agree, with two caveats. First, of course, is that the true name, if known, should be included in the catalog entry for such specimens. Second, if possible, there can be explanatory text with more correct information in it, in smaller print and beneath the main header. It has taken me some time to overcome the lack of precise information, and in some cases misinformation, attendant upon mineral specimens. Personally, I felt cheated that I wasn't getting exact information. You can always discard or ignore information you don't want; but you can't deal with information that isn't there. I don't believe in dumbing down, that's the bottom line. I do believe in adaptive information, that is, you can present information in layers so that it appeals to all levels of recipient--this was the success of Shakespeare. By making people aware of the more detailed levels of information available to them, you inspire them to grow and learn and transcend themselves. In reaching for the stars, we might just touch the sky. Don _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Jul 14 12:16:09 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Jul 14 12:16:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grammer/ Self Collected/... Message-ID: <071420051916.9831.42D6B9F900049EBD00002667216028074807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Don, Axel, etc., Yes, I also would heartily endorse the approach of "adaptive information in layers". By the way, another comment my teacher-students had about specimens in the CSM museum (which I noticed myself, and agreed with), is that a number of specimens on display only had the one "salient" mineral identified on the label, whereas there were one or more other distinctive-looking minerals also visible on the specimen, but not identified. Several of the teachers thus asked me, "what's that other mineral with it?", which in some cases I could identify and answer, in others, not. This also could be well handled by providing "information in layers", for the more curious observers. Pete -------------- Original message from morningstar@att.net: -------------- > > > but for more general > > situations, such as of displaying specimens in a museum or at a show, the > > general name is more more useful, pertinent, and understandable, and I really > > think we should just label specimens as apophyllite, hornblende, scapolite, > and > > stilbite, etc. and NOT plague the viewer with "fluorapophyllite", > > "magnesiohornblende", "meionite", and "stilbite-Ca". > > > I would generally agree, with two caveats. First, of course, is that the true > name, if known, should be included in the catalog entry for such specimens. > Second, if possible, there can be explanatory text with more correct information > in it, in smaller print and beneath the main header. It has taken me some time > to overcome the lack of precise information, and in some cases misinformation, > attendant upon mineral specimens. Personally, I felt cheated that I wasn't > getting exact information. You can always discard or ignore information you > don't want; but you can't deal with information that isn't there. > > I don't believe in dumbing down, that's the bottom line. I do believe in > adaptive information, that is, you can present information in layers so that it > appeals to all levels of recipient--this was the success of Shakespeare. By > making people aware of the more detailed levels of information available to > them, you inspire them to grow and learn and transcend themselves. In reaching > for the stars, we might just touch the sky. > > > Don > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dpowell13 at Rochester.rr.com Thu Jul 14 12:49:26 2005 From: dpowell13 at Rochester.rr.com (Darryl Powell) Date: Thu Jul 14 12:49:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Major Collections Message-ID: <00eb01c588ad$24be05c0$2c8da918@6663r01> Dear Rockhounds, In the recent Min Record I see that Collector's Edge has acquired Marty Zinn's collection and is now beginning to sell the specimens. It made me think that all the major collections are built by men (Clarence Bement, F. John Barlow, Dave Wilbur, Joseph Freilich, etc.) Could anyone on the list point out a significant collection put together by a woman mineral collector? June Culp Zeitner's collection is housed somewhere in South Dakota, I believe, but beyond this, I am stumped. It would be interesting to see profiles of women mineral collectors in Min Record, Rocks & Minerals, etc. Any thoughts out there?? Best wishes to all. Darryl Powell Manchester, New York --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tam2819 at cox.net Thu Jul 14 13:00:15 2005 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Thu Jul 14 13:00:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grammer/ Self Collected/... In-Reply-To: <071420051641.1600.42D6959C0004274E00000640215876672007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <071420051641.1600.42D6959C0004274E00000640215876672007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: Pete, I so totally agree with you. I think mineral purists in their attempts to be "Mineralogically Correct," manage to put off far more persons than they attract. I believe Mr. Liddicoat certainly deserves his honor, but that is a perfect example of "huh?" Excessive verbiage does not a genius make. thanks Terrie From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 14 13:49:56 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Thu Jul 14 13:49:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Major Collections References: <00eb01c588ad$24be05c0$2c8da918@6663r01> Message-ID: <000f01c588b5$98253300$78f1edc1@mpc1> >South Dakota, I believe, but beyond this, I am stumped. It would be >interesting to see profiles of women mineral collectors in Min Record, >Rocks & Minerals, etc. Any thoughts out there?? Seen the article on the Duchess of Devonshire in the latest MR? There's a Swiss lady these days has a serious collection. And there was the Baroness Burdett-Coutts in the 19th C. Sarah Mawe (a mineral dealer) had an interesting collection in the early 19th C, but it disappeared after her death. A few specimens illustrated in one of Sowerby's Mineralogies. Mick From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 14 13:52:37 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Thu Jul 14 13:52:39 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Self Collected... References: <071420051602.23592.42D68CA900006ED800005C28215876672007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <001901c588b5$f85c3de0$78f1edc1@mpc1> >And, oh heck, even "up to" ( X cm), everybody really knows what that means >too, why fuss about it? I cannot, after days of trying, figure out what is wrong with that expression. Does exactly what it says on the tin. Mick From tjokela at execulink.com Thu Jul 14 16:59:24 2005 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Thu Jul 14 16:59:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Advert - micromounts.com domain available References: Message-ID: <001701c588d0$0f7fb550$6400a8c0@Junior> If anybody's interested in acquiring http://www.micromounts.com, I'm currently accepting offers. Domain name comes with all the content on the site (excluding linked sites like the MineCam, ontariominerals.com, etc., obviously). I don't have the time or the interest to do the site justice, and am tired of paying for its upkeep. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Jul 14 19:55:15 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Jul 14 19:59:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Self Collected geologists hold convention where they collect themselves... References: <071420051602.23592.42D68CA900006ED800005C28215876672007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <004301c588e8$a13b85b0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Hey Pete! I've known what chiasmus is for about 30 years.....and LOL, it's NOT anyway related to any part of the female anatomy ;-) Chiasmus is a literary device. Technically the official definition from chiasmus.com is: "chiasmus [ky-AZ-mus] (plural -mi), a figure of speech by which the order of the terms in the first of two parallel clauses is reversed in the second. This may involve a repetition of the same words ("Pleasure's a sin, and sometimes sin's a pleasure" --Byron) or just a reversed parallel between two corresponding pairs of ideas . . . . The figure is especially common in 18th century English poetry, but is also found in prose of all periods. It is named after the Greek letter chi (x), indicating a "criss-cross" arrangement of terms. Some very complicated chiastic verses can be found in the Bible and in the Book of Mormon. Jeanette > Figures of Speech, wow, heavy stuff, in that two-line definition, it manages to use at least 3 words that I have TOTALLY never heard of or would at least certainly have no clue how to use them or exactly what they mean. [synecdoche, anaphora, and chiasmus--which I guess must refer respecitively to a feminine hygiene product, jars the ancient Greeks and Phonecians kept wine in and... heaven knows about chiasmus. I won't even try to touch "assonance", though it must related to some domesticated equine and/or some part of its anatomy.] > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From cliffjackson9 at earthlink.net Thu Jul 14 20:20:49 2005 From: cliffjackson9 at earthlink.net (Cliff Jackson) Date: Thu Jul 14 20:20:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Septarian slabes Message-ID: <24985406.1121397650069.JavaMail.root@wamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> List I Have Some Septarian slabs for sale or trade. Please contact off list if you are interested. Cliff Jackson Las Vegas From bobl at peaktopeak.com Thu Jul 14 21:44:40 2005 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Thu Jul 14 21:44:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire In-Reply-To: <000901c58892$66217a80$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <200507150444.j6F4idWl016616@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Maybe some magnesium (metal) got stirred up during the landslide and was exposed to water. I heard that it can get very hot and burn even in water (or maybe it's another element that I'm thinking of). Just an idea... I'm not a chemist... Please don't kill me... :-) Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of jaybates Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 10:38 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire Axel, good 2 cents worth. However I don't think that is the answer for a number of reasons. One, the firefighters and scientists involved in the hot spot are aware of such possibilites as roots burning underground. Many years ago I spent a number of summers as a fire fighter in the western states. We were aware of burning roots and did our best to put them out. Sometimes in a very few instances, they would continue to burn underground through the winter, but in all cases of which I am aware they only burned in an isolated spot, not over an area of two football fields. What you say may be correct in forests with a thick mat of duff (vegatative mat on the ground) but the forest as seen in the photos does not have a thick mat of duff. Actually the ground looks more like the Arizona desert than a temperate forest. The forests north of Santa Barbara are very hot and dry places in the summer and the trees do not produce much ground litter. I live in California and I am familiar with the California forests. I am beginning to wonder whether the site may be a hot spot that was unusually near the surface and that are usually associated with hot springs and the hot spot was exposed by a landslide. I have a very difficult time believing it is a chemical reaction caused by various minerals in the rocks exposed by a landslide. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 8:52 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire > OK, I'll pretend to belong to the smart people goup ;-))) > > The story mentiones that the crew who reported the incident was or had been > putting out a forest fire. > Sometimes forest fires burn their way under ground and flare up hundreds of > meters or even miles away from where a smoldering piece of wood was not > quite thoroughly drenched with water. > > Plant remains often form a spongy layer that can burn or smolder for days. > I'll admit that 11 feet is rather deep but it would explain the high > temperature. > > 2 cents worth from > > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens jaybates > Verzonden: woensdag 13 juli 2005 22:05 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire > > > OK, all you smart people. You want to talk about rocks! Explain what is > happening at this "hot spot" found last summer by a crew putting out a > forest fire near Santa Barbara. Jay > > http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/mcrocks/vpost?id=535224 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jaybates" > To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock > and gem collectors" > Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 9:03 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point "What is self?"] > > > > Self can also refer to inanimate objects such as a "self-loading rifle". > In > > "self-collected" it is self-evident and that "self" refers to a person not > a > > rock. "To thy own self be true. Though this be madness, yet there is > method > > in 't." > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ted" > > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 7:35 PM > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point "What is self?"] > > > > > > > Don and all: > > > I am at a loss here. Perhaps my understanding of English is lacking... > > But, > > > > > > I've never known a rock, gem, or mineral to have a concept of "self" > They > > > have always been "it" to me. > > > > > > Self is a noun that refers to oneself; an individual, I the person! > Rocks > > > and other physical manifestations can not and are not "selves". The > prefix > > > use of self, "self-" refers to the actions of an individual person, so > > > envelopes can be "self-addressed". If one seriously desired an envelope > to > > > write it's own address I would expect the term to be "it-addressed". A > > > concept and wording that are doubtful in our current reality. > > > > > > Yes, perhaps the term "self-collected" is limiting. Particularly many > > years > > > down the road when the self originally involved has moved on in > existence > > > leaving some other collector (also a self) trying to clarify who > collected > > > what where and when. > > > > > > In lingual amusement, > > > Ted Kowalski > > > Fredericksburg, VA USA > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Don H > > > Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 6:37 PM > > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of > R&M] > > > > > > > > > jaybates wrote: > > > > By the way, I am going to continue to use "self-collected" because I > > > > cannot think of a better replacement wording. > > > > > > How about what I suggested--"personally collected"? Collected by > > > author? Or collected by [name of person]? I suppose I really > > > underestimated how near and dear this term is to some folks. A bit if > > > trivia--my first degree was in English, so I pay attention to some > > > things that many people don't even know are potential issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockcurrier at cs.com Thu Jul 14 22:59:20 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Thu Jul 14 22:53:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dumbing down, dumbing up, lady mineral collectors, etc References: <200507150100.j6F10aQC004534@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <01f601c58902$57f103c0$2eeaa5d8@rock5> Some years ago Gene Foord of the USGS thought he would clear up some of the inconsistencies relating to what is turquoise and what is not. He started with the assumption that turquoise is a copper phosphate and since the crystals from Lynch Station, Virginia were the best know that these could be used as sort of a bench mark against which to measure other "turquoise". He found that a lot of turquoise was not really turquoise at all but often other minerals and mixtures of minerals. Sometime after the dust had cleared a bit I asked him if he had analyzed the turquoise from near Mashhad, Iran. He said he thought he had analyzed that material and found that it was not really turquoise. I then pointed out that the turquoise from this locality (Persia) was the standard of what fine turquoise was and had been for well over a thousand years. We are fortunate to have had Gene Foord and all the fine work he did and he was not the one that named the little blue crystals from Virginia to be Turquoise. So now we have the situatuon where the standard for turquoise for the last thousand years is no longer turquoise? Well in this case, the world does not care what a few mineralogical honchos call it. Everyone will just look at them like they are a little touched and keep on calling it turquoise. Is this a case of dumbing up or dumbing down? We can have a tourmaline crystal that consists of two or three members of the tourmaline group in its composition. What mineral name do we give that crystal? Certainly tourmaline is the correct name. What name will the Federation judges accept? Well I stopped worrying about that years ago. Certainly providing all the information that is know about a specimen is desirable for the small number of people who would be interested, but we still have a very limited space on a printed label and must decide what is best to put on it. Computers should make such concerns a thing of the past. There is the label! Want to know more? Click on it and get the full story and or some links about where you can learn more about it and related specimens. What are we really talking about here? A display case of minerals in a museum or at a gem and mineral show. Next to the display is a picture (thin screen monitor) of the contents of the display case. Want to know what they are, touch the one in the picture you are interest in and get a larger picture with a more complete label. Want to know more tap the picture again. This will happen, although thin screen monitors will have to get a lot cheaper and someone will have to come up with the software to run all those little monitors next to the display cases. Lady mineral collectors? Let me count the ways and I am sure that this short list is only a small start. Betty Lewellen (Marty Zinn's mom), here in LA we had Marion Godshaw whose collection was formidable. Cal Graber sold it for the family. We still have with us Kay Robertson whose catalogued collection is approaching 20,000 pieces which is rich in old German rarities. Marion Stuart of the Carnation milk fortune. She and her husband Hadley were responsible for building the wing on the Los Angeles County museum where the museum currently displays its collection gem vault, and offices. Her collection was outstanding and she had her own museum built with their home in Idaho. Perhaps the current champ is Frau Dr, Pohl of Wella cosmetics (I hope I got that right). She lives in Switzerland and has a huge collection that she is still adding to and has been for the last 50+ years. Probably as large or larger than the Bosh collection (60,000) pieces that Paul Desautels got for the Smithsonian Institute many hears ago. Also we should add Juanita Curtis, the micromounters, lived in the Los Angeles area and had a mineral named after her. Is there not some micromounting orginization that would be interested in taking over micromounts.com? Failing that some dealer who specalizes in micros should probably be interested. I don't want it, I can't even do my own website justice and I,m suposed to be in business with the thing. From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Fri Jul 15 02:14:54 2005 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Fri Jul 15 03:34:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Major Collections References: <00eb01c588ad$24be05c0$2c8da918@6663r01> Message-ID: <000901c58928$c90592d0$954127c4@privatehome> Hi list, The late Ruth Cole Wertz, Jesse Hardman (California), Juanita Curtis (California) and the late Marcelle Weber all built up major micromount collections in the past. (Sorry if I have missed out other woman collectors of note). Horst ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darryl Powell" To: "Rockhounds List" Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 9:49 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Major Collections Dear Rockhounds, In the recent Min Record I see that Collector's Edge has acquired Marty Zinn's collection and is now beginning to sell the specimens. It made me think that all the major collections are built by men (Clarence Bement, F. John Barlow, Dave Wilbur, Joseph Freilich, etc.) Could anyone on the list point out a significant collection put together by a woman mineral collector? June Culp Zeitner's collection is housed somewhere in South Dakota, I believe, but beyond this, I am stumped. It would be interesting to see profiles of women mineral collectors in Min Record, Rocks & Minerals, etc. Any thoughts out there?? Best wishes to all. Darryl Powell Manchester, New York --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From dpowell13 at Rochester.rr.com Fri Jul 15 05:21:57 2005 From: dpowell13 at Rochester.rr.com (Darryl Powell) Date: Fri Jul 15 05:22:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lady Mineral Collectors Follow-Up Message-ID: <003a01c58937$cb6eccd0$2c8da918@6663r01> Just a brief note to all who responded to my inquiry about women who are or have built significant mineral collections. Thank you to all who responded. Especially to Rock Currier who, once again, proves himself to be a well of great information. I hope I speak on behalf of the entire rockhounds list to thank Rock for his consistently thoughtful, informative and detailed responses. I'm so glad you have the time - or make the time - to share your knowledge and experience. This leads me to the next thought, one which I might pass on to Wendell Wilson and Marie Huizing: with so many women building substantial mineral collections in recent history, it would be fascinating to see an article or a few on these people in Min Record and/or Rocks & Minerals. Any writers out there??? Thanks to everyone. Best wishes to all. Darryl Powell Manchester, New York --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Fri Jul 15 05:58:10 2005 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Fri Jul 15 06:00:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Major Collections References: <00eb01c588ad$24be05c0$2c8da918@6663r01> Message-ID: <002501c5893d$1e232fc0$b23f27c4@privatehome> Hi List, I know of quite a few woman micromounters who have built up sizeable and significant collections:- The late Ruth Cole Wertz The late Marcelle Weber Juanita Curtis Please forgive me if I have left out some. Regards, Horst ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darryl Powell" To: "Rockhounds List" Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 9:49 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Major Collections Dear Rockhounds, In the recent Min Record I see that Collector's Edge has acquired Marty Zinn's collection and is now beginning to sell the specimens. It made me think that all the major collections are built by men (Clarence Bement, F. John Barlow, Dave Wilbur, Joseph Freilich, etc.) Could anyone on the list point out a significant collection put together by a woman mineral collector? June Culp Zeitner's collection is housed somewhere in South Dakota, I believe, but beyond this, I am stumped. It would be interesting to see profiles of women mineral collectors in Min Record, Rocks & Minerals, etc. Any thoughts out there?? Best wishes to all. Darryl Powell Manchester, New York --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Jul 15 06:32:41 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Jul 15 06:32:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Major Collections In-Reply-To: <00eb01c588ad$24be05c0$2c8da918@6663r01> Message-ID: Wouldn't Maria Sklodowska (Mme Curie) be among the famous female rockhounds? Just a thought... I read tat she must have received tons of minerals for her research. Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Darryl Powell Verzonden: donderdag 14 juli 2005 21:49 Aan: Rockhounds List Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Major Collections Dear Rockhounds, In the recent Min Record I see that Collector's Edge has acquired Marty Zinn's collection and is now beginning to sell the specimens. It made me think that all the major collections are built by men (Clarence Bement, F. John Barlow, Dave Wilbur, Joseph Freilich, etc.) Could anyone on the list point out a significant collection put together by a woman mineral collector? June Culp Zeitner's collection is housed somewhere in South Dakota, I believe, but beyond this, I am stumped. It would be interesting to see profiles of women mineral collectors in Min Record, Rocks & Minerals, etc. Any thoughts out there?? Best wishes to all. Darryl Powell Manchester, New York --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From cweinber at bcpl.net Fri Jul 15 06:37:26 2005 From: cweinber at bcpl.net (Steve & Carolyn Weinberger) Date: Fri Jul 15 06:40:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Major Collections In-Reply-To: <002501c5893d$1e232fc0$b23f27c4@privatehome> Message-ID: <94B779A6-F535-11D9-B53D-0005025E4230@bcpl.net> And let's not forget the late Vi Frazier Jocelyn Thornton Sugar White Janet Cares Marge Matula Carolyn On Friday, July 15, 2005, at 08:58 AM, Horst Windisch wrote: > Hi List, > > I know of quite a few woman micromounters who have built up sizeable > and significant collections:- > > The late Ruth Cole Wertz > The late Marcelle Weber > Juanita Curtis > > Please forgive me if I have left out some. > > Regards, > Horst > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darryl Powell" > > To: "Rockhounds List" > Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 9:49 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Major Collections > > > Dear Rockhounds, > In the recent Min Record I see that Collector's Edge has acquired > Marty Zinn's collection and is now beginning to sell the specimens. > It made me think that all the major collections are built by men > (Clarence Bement, F. John Barlow, Dave Wilbur, Joseph Freilich, etc.) > Could anyone on the list point out a significant collection put > together by a woman mineral collector? June Culp Zeitner's collection > is housed somewhere in South Dakota, I believe, but beyond this, I am > stumped. It would be interesting to see profiles of women mineral > collectors in Min Record, Rocks & Minerals, etc. Any thoughts out > there?? > > Best wishes to all. > Darryl Powell > Manchester, New York > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From morningstar at att.net Fri Jul 15 08:28:51 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Fri Jul 15 08:29:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Major Collections Message-ID: <071520051528.15524.42D7D6330006572100003CA421612436469D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Wasn't there a late Violet Anderson? Or did I miss that in a post? I think we might also want to define what a "major" or "significant" collection would be. Don -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Steve & Carolyn Weinberger > And let's not forget > > the late Vi Frazier > Jocelyn Thornton > Sugar White > Janet Cares > Marge Matula > From morningstar at att.net Fri Jul 15 08:36:01 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Fri Jul 15 08:36:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Major Collections Message-ID: <071520051536.22761.42D7D7DE00000A8A000058E921612436469D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> On a related note, there was a discussion on the Mineralogical Society of America list about females who have been honored with mineral names. There are far more than one would think. A special issue might be broadened to "women in mineralogy." I don't know how many females have built siginficant collections--again, depending on what one defines as significant--but if you look at how many women have contributed to the science and named minerals, or had minerals named after them, or built collections, or curated, or edited major magazines, or wrote many articles, or were great lapidaries, then you have quite an assemblage of worthy women. And don't forget people like M. Darby Dyar, who studies minerals and has co-described a few, teaches at a women's college, is an active advocate of women in the sciences, and contributed to the Mars rover project (look her up in a search engine, she is quite an impressive woman). Don (a man who likes women) -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Axel Emmermann" > Wouldn't Maria Sklodowska (Mme Curie) be among the famous female rockhounds? > Just a thought... I read tat she must have received tons of minerals for her > research. > From kadok at infowest.com Fri Jul 15 09:05:08 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Fri Jul 15 09:05:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050715160504.DEAF2A1442@marbella.infowest.com> Sounds good, Axel. I seem to recall some years ago reading about a small town the was having problems because of underground fires in a local coal deposit, that had been smoldering for many years. (Think it actually started underground, in a coal mine, in this case, but I'm not sure on that.) And I think I've heard that peat bog fires in England also act in similar ways. Margaret >OK, I'll pretend to belong to the smart people goup ;-))) >The story mentiones that the crew who reported the incident was or had been >putting out a forest fire. >Sometimes forest fires burn their way under ground and flare up hundreds of >meters or even miles away from where a smoldering piece of wood was not >quite thoroughly drenched with water. >Plant remains often form a spongy layer that can burn or smolder for days. >I'll admit that 11 feet is rather deep but it would explain the high >temperature. 2 cents worth from Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens jaybates Verzonden: woensdag 13 juli 2005 22:05 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire OK, all you smart people. You want to talk about rocks! Explain what is happening at this "hot spot" found last summer by a crew putting out a forest fire near Santa Barbara. Jay http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/mcrocks/vpost?id=535224 ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 9:03 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point "What is self?"] > Self can also refer to inanimate objects such as a "self-loading rifle". In > "self-collected" it is self-evident and that "self" refers to a person not a > rock. "To thy own self be true. Though this be madness, yet there is method > in 't." > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ted" > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > > Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 7:35 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point "What is self?"] > > > > Don and all: > > I am at a loss here. Perhaps my understanding of English is lacking... > But, > > > > I've never known a rock, gem, or mineral to have a concept of "self" They > > have always been "it" to me. > > > > Self is a noun that refers to oneself; an individual, I the person! Rocks > > and other physical manifestations can not and are not "selves". The prefix > > use of self, "self-" refers to the actions of an individual person, so > > envelopes can be "self-addressed". If one seriously desired an envelope to > > write it's own address I would expect the term to be "it-addressed". A > > concept and wording that are doubtful in our current reality. > > > > Yes, perhaps the term "self-collected" is limiting. Particularly many > years > > down the road when the self originally involved has moved on in existence > > leaving some other collector (also a self) trying to clarify who collected > > what where and when. > > > > In lingual amusement, > > Ted Kowalski > > Fredericksburg, VA USA > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Don H > > Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 6:37 PM > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] > > > > > > jaybates wrote: > > > By the way, I am going to continue to use "self-collected" because I > > > cannot think of a better replacement wording. > > > > How about what I suggested--"personally collected"? Collected by > > author? Or collected by [name of person]? I suppose I really > > underestimated how near and dear this term is to some folks. A bit if > > trivia--my first degree was in English, so I pay attention to some > > things that many people don't even know are potential issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Fri Jul 15 09:48:44 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Jul 15 09:48:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The fire sometimes smolders in subsurface peat. This phenomenon also occurs in the Florida Everglades and makes firefighting there very dangerous in dry conditions. (Yes, it does get dry in the 'Glades.) Sometimes the peat can burn an unseen subsurface cavity and a firefighter can fall in... Glenn Wimpee >From: "Axel Emmermann" <axel.emmermann@pandora.be> > >OK, I'll pretend to belong to the smart people goup ;-))) > >The story mentiones that the crew who reported the incident was or had been >putting out a forest fire. >Sometimes forest fires burn their way under ground and flare up hundreds of >meters or even miles away from where a smoldering piece of wood was not >quite thoroughly drenched with water. > >Plant remains often form a spongy layer that can burn or smolder for days. >I'll admit that 11 feet is rather deep but it would explain the high >temperature. > >2 cents worth from > >Axel > > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens jaybates >Verzonden: woensdag 13 juli 2005 22:05 >Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire > > >OK, all you smart people. You want to talk about rocks! Explain what is >happening at this "hot spot" found last summer by a crew putting out a >forest fire near Santa Barbara. Jay > ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Find just what you're after with the new, more precise MSN Search - try it now! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From JWachsmuth at gmx.de Fri Jul 15 09:51:07 2005 From: JWachsmuth at gmx.de (Juergen Wachsmuth) Date: Fri Jul 15 09:51:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Major Collections References: <00eb01c588ad$24be05c0$2c8da918@6663r01> <000901c58928$c90592d0$954127c4@privatehome> Message-ID: <42D7E97B.711FADD3@gmx.de> Hello, besides those already mentioned I would like to add a German name, Alice Rondorf. Together with her husband Eugen she is keeping one of the better collections of minerals from the Eifel mountains. And you may know there are many rarities in that area. Do not forget Jocelyn Thornton from New Zealand. She is a member of the micromounters` hall of fame. A few years ago I was allowed to visit her collection which impressed me by the variety of New Zealand specimens. And she is doing a great job running the NZL Micromounters group and their newsletter. >From Russia I know of many authors of mineralogical publications whose names are ending with "-ova", and as far as I know these are women. They contributed a lot to our knowledge. Regards, J?rgen Wachsmuth Ulm - Germany > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Darryl Powell" > To: "Rockhounds List" > Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 9:49 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Major Collections > > Dear Rockhounds, > In the recent Min Record I see that Collector's Edge has acquired Marty > Zinn's collection and is now beginning to sell the specimens. It made me > think that all the major collections are built by men (Clarence Bement, F. > John Barlow, Dave Wilbur, Joseph Freilich, etc.) Could anyone on the list > point out a significant collection put together by a woman mineral > collector? June Culp Zeitner's collection is housed somewhere in South > Dakota, I believe, but beyond this, I am stumped. It would be interesting > to see profiles of women mineral collectors in Min Record, Rocks & Minerals, > etc. Any thoughts out there?? > > Best wishes to all. > Darryl Powell > Manchester, New York > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Fri Jul 15 09:58:15 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Jul 15 09:58:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grammer/ Self Collected/... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: DITTOS!!!! Glenn Wimpee >From: "Axel Emmermann" <axel.emmermann@pandora.be> > > >By making people aware of the more detailed levels of information available >to them, you inspire them to grow and learn > >and transcend themselves. In reaching for the stars, we might just touch >the sky. > >So true, so well said... Respect! >Otoh: we should remember to pan our gaze from the stars to the people >downstairs every now and then... they tend to give up sooner than we care to >believe if we get to serious ;-))) >But in general: yes... if we respect the thin line between dumbing down and >simplifying. > >Cheers Don > >Axel > ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Ready for kickoff? Sign up for Fox Fantasy Football powered by MSN. FREE to play! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From jaybates at rcn.com Fri Jul 15 10:10:22 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Fri Jul 15 10:08:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire References: Message-ID: <000501c58960$1695a9e0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> There is no peat in the location of the fire. Coal maybe, but not peat. The news article also says there it is not coal burning. There is also no forest litter on the surface to burn. Look at the pictures. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Wimpee" To: Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 9:48 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire > The fire sometimes smolders in subsurface peat. > > This phenomenon also occurs in the Florida Everglades and makes firefighting there very dangerous in dry conditions. (Yes, it does get dry in the 'Glades.) > > Sometimes the peat can burn an unseen subsurface cavity and a firefighter can fall in... > > > > > Glenn Wimpee > > > > > > > >From: "Axel Emmermann" <axel.emmermann@pandora.be> > > > >OK, I'll pretend to belong to the smart people goup ;-))) > > > >The story mentiones that the crew who reported the incident was or had been > >putting out a forest fire. > >Sometimes forest fires burn their way under ground and flare up hundreds of > >meters or even miles away from where a smoldering piece of wood was not > >quite thoroughly drenched with water. > > > >Plant remains often form a spongy layer that can burn or smolder for days. > >I'll admit that 11 feet is rather deep but it would explain the high > >temperature. > > > >2 cents > worth from > > > >Axel > > > > > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > >Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens jaybates > >Verzonden: woensdag 13 juli 2005 22:05 > >Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > >Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire > > > > > >OK, all you smart people. You want to talk about rocks! Explain what is > >happening at this "hot spot" found last summer by a crew putting out a > >forest fire near Santa Barbara. Jay > > > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > Find just what you're after with the new, more precise MSN Search - try it now! > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > text/html (html body -- converted) > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Fri Jul 15 10:15:25 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Jul 15 10:15:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Self Collected geologists hold levity convention In-Reply-To: <004301c588e8$a13b85b0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: Chiasmus...hmmm...muss be a big wide valley like area....ROTFL Synedoche....cleaning method for billboards? Anaphora....comes right after: a one a...a two a...a three a...(HEE HAW!) Assonance...this gotta be a big word for repeating "and so on"! Glenn >From: "Jeanette Wimpee" <geenet2@mchsi.com> > >Hey Pete! >I've known what chiasmus is for about 30 years.....and LOL, it's NOT anyway related to any part of the female anatomy ;-) >Chiasmus is a literary device. Technically the official definition from chiasmus.com is: > "chiasmus [ky-AZ-mus] (plural -mi), a figure of speech by which the order of the terms in the first of two parallel clauses is reversed in the second. This may involve a repetition of the same words ("Pleasure's a sin, and sometimes sin's a pleasure" --Byron) or just a reversed parallel between two corresponding pairs of ideas . . . . The figure is especially common in 18th century English poetry, but is also found in prose of all periods. It is named after the Greek letter chi (x), indicating a "criss-cross" arrangement of terms. >Some very complicated chiastic verses can be found in the Bible and in the Book of Mormon. > >Jeanette > > > > Figures of Speech, wow, heavy stuff, in that two-line definition, it manages to use at least 3 words that I have TOTALLY never heard of or would at least certainly have no clue how to use them or exactly what they mean. [synecdoche, anaphora, and chiasmus--which I guess must refer respecitively to a feminine hygiene product, jars the ancient Greeks and Phonecians kept wine in and... heaven knows about chiasmus. I won't even try to touch "assonance", though it must related to some domesticated equine and/or some part of its anatomy.] > > > ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Get the NEW version of MSN Messenger with Video Conversation - it's FREE! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Jul 15 10:19:45 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Jul 15 10:19:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire In-Reply-To: <20050715160504.DEAF2A1442@marbella.infowest.com> Message-ID: Yes, but the absence of peat makes a pat bog fire slightly unlikely... What then is it, for peat sake? (LOL) A case of spontaneous combustion of an enigmatite layer? An outbreak of fire opal? Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm Verzonden: vrijdag 15 juli 2005 18:05 Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire Sounds good, Axel. I seem to recall some years ago reading about a small town the was having problems because of underground fires in a local coal deposit, that had been smoldering for many years. (Think it actually started underground, in a coal mine, in this case, but I'm not sure on that.) And I think I've heard that peat bog fires in England also act in similar ways. Margaret >OK, I'll pretend to belong to the smart people goup ;-))) >The story mentiones that the crew who reported the incident was or had been >putting out a forest fire. >Sometimes forest fires burn their way under ground and flare up hundreds of >meters or even miles away from where a smoldering piece of wood was not >quite thoroughly drenched with water. >Plant remains often form a spongy layer that can burn or smolder for days. >I'll admit that 11 feet is rather deep but it would explain the high >temperature. 2 cents worth from Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens jaybates Verzonden: woensdag 13 juli 2005 22:05 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire OK, all you smart people. You want to talk about rocks! Explain what is happening at this "hot spot" found last summer by a crew putting out a forest fire near Santa Barbara. Jay http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/mcrocks/vpost?id=535224 ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 9:03 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point "What is self?"] > Self can also refer to inanimate objects such as a "self-loading rifle". In > "self-collected" it is self-evident and that "self" refers to a person not a > rock. "To thy own self be true. Though this be madness, yet there is method > in 't." > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ted" > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > > Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 7:35 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point "What is self?"] > > > > Don and all: > > I am at a loss here. Perhaps my understanding of English is lacking... > But, > > > > I've never known a rock, gem, or mineral to have a concept of "self" They > > have always been "it" to me. > > > > Self is a noun that refers to oneself; an individual, I the person! Rocks > > and other physical manifestations can not and are not "selves". The prefix > > use of self, "self-" refers to the actions of an individual person, so > > envelopes can be "self-addressed". If one seriously desired an envelope to > > write it's own address I would expect the term to be "it-addressed". A > > concept and wording that are doubtful in our current reality. > > > > Yes, perhaps the term "self-collected" is limiting. Particularly many > years > > down the road when the self originally involved has moved on in existence > > leaving some other collector (also a self) trying to clarify who collected > > what where and when. > > > > In lingual amusement, > > Ted Kowalski > > Fredericksburg, VA USA > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Don H > > Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 6:37 PM > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] > > > > > > jaybates wrote: > > > By the way, I am going to continue to use "self-collected" because I > > > cannot think of a better replacement wording. > > > > How about what I suggested--"personally collected"? Collected by > > author? Or collected by [name of person]? I suppose I really > > underestimated how near and dear this term is to some folks. A bit if > > trivia--my first degree was in English, so I pay attention to some > > things that many people don't even know are potential issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jaybates at rcn.com Fri Jul 15 10:30:20 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Fri Jul 15 10:28:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire References: Message-ID: <000701c58962$e068ebe0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> There is a good chance of serpentine and magnesite being in the area. The USGS Hydrologist in the video seems to think it is minerals on fire. I have a hard time believing that. Maybe spontaneous combustion of rotten puns. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 10:19 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire > Yes, but the absence of peat makes a pat bog fire slightly unlikely... What > then is it, for peat sake? (LOL) > A case of spontaneous combustion of an enigmatite layer? An outbreak of fire > opal? > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm > Verzonden: vrijdag 15 juli 2005 18:05 > Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire > > > > Sounds good, Axel. > > I seem to recall some years ago reading about a small town the was having > problems because of underground fires in a local coal deposit, that had > been smoldering for many years. (Think it actually started underground, in a > coal mine, in this case, but I'm not sure on that.) > > And I think I've heard that peat bog fires in England also act in similar > ways. > > Margaret > > > >OK, I'll pretend to belong to the smart people goup ;-))) > > >The story mentiones that the crew who reported the incident was or had been > >putting out a forest fire. > >Sometimes forest fires burn their way under ground and flare up hundreds of > >meters or even miles away from where a smoldering piece of wood was not > >quite thoroughly drenched with water. > > >Plant remains often form a spongy layer that can burn or smolder for days. > >I'll admit that 11 feet is rather deep but it would explain the high > >temperature. > > 2 cents worth from > > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens jaybates > Verzonden: woensdag 13 juli 2005 22:05 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire > > > OK, all you smart people. You want to talk about rocks! Explain what is > happening at this "hot spot" found last summer by a crew putting out a > forest fire near Santa Barbara. Jay > > http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/mcrocks/vpost?id=535224 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jaybates" > To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock > and gem collectors" > Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 9:03 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point "What is self?"] > > > > Self can also refer to inanimate objects such as a "self-loading rifle". > In > > "self-collected" it is self-evident and that "self" refers to a person not > a > > rock. "To thy own self be true. Though this be madness, yet there is > method > > in 't." > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ted" > > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 7:35 PM > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point "What is self?"] > > > > > > > Don and all: > > > I am at a loss here. Perhaps my understanding of English is lacking... > > But, > > > > > > I've never known a rock, gem, or mineral to have a concept of "self" > They > > > have always been "it" to me. > > > > > > Self is a noun that refers to oneself; an individual, I the person! > Rocks > > > and other physical manifestations can not and are not "selves". The > prefix > > > use of self, "self-" refers to the actions of an individual person, so > > > envelopes can be "self-addressed". If one seriously desired an envelope > to > > > write it's own address I would expect the term to be "it-addressed". A > > > concept and wording that are doubtful in our current reality. > > > > > > Yes, perhaps the term "self-collected" is limiting. Particularly many > > years > > > down the road when the self originally involved has moved on in > existence > > > leaving some other collector (also a self) trying to clarify who > collected > > > what where and when. > > > > > > In lingual amusement, > > > Ted Kowalski > > > Fredericksburg, VA USA > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Don H > > > Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 6:37 PM > > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of > R&M] > > > > > > > > > jaybates wrote: > > > > By the way, I am going to continue to use "self-collected" because I > > > > cannot think of a better replacement wording. > > > > > > How about what I suggested--"personally collected"? Collected by > > > author? Or collected by [name of person]? I suppose I really > > > underestimated how near and dear this term is to some folks. A bit if > > > trivia--my first degree was in English, so I pay attention to some > > > things that many people don't even know are potential issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Fri Jul 15 10:32:37 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Jul 15 10:32:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Maybe we are on the verge of finding a good energy alternative to fossil fuel! Glenn Wimpee >From: "Axel Emmermann" <axel.emmermann@pandora.be> > >Yes, but the absence of peat makes a pat bog fire slightly unlikely... What >then is it, for peat sake? (LOL) >A case of spontaneous combustion of an enigmatite layer? An outbreak of fire >opal? > >Axel > ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Get the NEW version of MSN Messenger with Video Conversation - it's FREE! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From jaybates at rcn.com Fri Jul 15 10:42:00 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Fri Jul 15 10:40:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire References: Message-ID: <000501c58964$81ca9780$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Do you mean the the puns or the magnesite? Sandia labs is working on combining coal, water and magnesite to form hydrogen for fuel. Coal could be utilized without producing greenhouse gases. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Wimpee" To: Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 10:32 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire > Maybe we are on the verge of finding a good energy alternative to fossil fuel! > > > > > Glenn Wimpee > > > > > > > >From: "Axel Emmermann" <axel.emmermann@pandora.be> > > > >Yes, but the absence of peat makes a pat bog fire slightly unlikely... What > >then is it, for peat sake? (LOL) > >A case of spontaneous combustion of an enigmatite layer? An outbreak of fire > >opal? > > > >Axel > > > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > Get the NEW version of MSN Messenger with Video Conversation - it's FREE! > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > text/html (html body -- converted) > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From murowchickj at umkc.edu Fri Jul 15 10:56:47 2005 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (James Murowchick) Date: Fri Jul 15 10:56:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire In-Reply-To: <000501c58964$81ca9780$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: Are there fine-grained sulfides (e.g., pyrite) in any appreciable concentration in the rocks? They can generate quite a bit of heat once they start oxidizing, especially if there's a little moisture. I had a synthetic very fine-grained FeS (mackinawite, troilite and a metastable cubic FeS) mixture spontaneously ignite on exposure to humid air while weighing the powder. I first noticed the weight steadily increasing, then when I looked at the sample, I saw a tracery of red lines and a wisp of smoke. I spilled the sample when I pulled it out of the balance, resulting in a nifty little sulfurous mushroom cloud in the lab. Another batch ignited in my hand while carrying it to the microscopy lab, and I had to drench the sample in the nearest drinking fountain. In De Re Metallica, Agricola reported using dew-free areas as indicators of mineralization--the heat from oxidizing sulfides warmed the ground just enough to hinder dew condensation. I really don't know what to make of the spot described in this thread. Jim Dr. James B. Murowchick Associate Professor, Geology Department of Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall 5110 Rockhill Rd., Kansas City, MO 64110 816 235-2979 Fax: 816 235-5535 murowchickj@umkc.edu From jaybates at rcn.com Fri Jul 15 11:09:45 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Fri Jul 15 11:08:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire References: Message-ID: <000701c58968$61e30840$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> It is certainly possible. The Coast Range is very much a melange of various minerals and formations. It is very dry in the summer but gets quite a bit of rain in the winter. I suppose a landslide could expose a sulfide that was protected from the rains in the winter. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Murowchick" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire > > Are there fine-grained sulfides (e.g., pyrite) in any appreciable > concentration in the rocks? They can generate quite a bit of heat once they > start oxidizing, especially if there's a little moisture. > > I had a synthetic very fine-grained FeS (mackinawite, troilite and a > metastable cubic FeS) mixture spontaneously ignite on exposure to humid air > while weighing the powder. I first noticed the weight steadily increasing, > then when I looked at the sample, I saw a tracery of red lines and a wisp of > smoke. I spilled the sample when I pulled it out of the balance, resulting > in a nifty little sulfurous mushroom cloud in the lab. Another batch > ignited in my hand while carrying it to the microscopy lab, and I had to > drench the sample in the nearest drinking fountain. > > In De Re Metallica, Agricola reported using dew-free areas as indicators of > mineralization--the heat from oxidizing sulfides warmed the ground just > enough to hinder dew condensation. > > I really don't know what to make of the spot described in this thread. > > Jim > > Dr. James B. Murowchick > Associate Professor, Geology > Department of Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall > 5110 Rockhill Rd., Kansas City, MO 64110 > 816 235-2979 Fax: 816 235-5535 > murowchickj@umkc.edu > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kenny.Gay at ncmail.net Fri Jul 15 11:40:22 2005 From: Kenny.Gay at ncmail.net (Kenny Gay) Date: Fri Jul 15 11:40:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] total number of collectors Message-ID: <42D80316.5020301@ncmail.net> I like the thread about feminine collections. It got me thinking, does anyone have any idea how many mineral collectors, male and female, there are worldwide? Kenny From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Jul 15 11:43:43 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Jul 15 11:43:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >in a nifty little sulfurous mushroom cloud in the lab. Another batch >ignited in my hand while carrying it to the microscopy lab, and I had to >drench the sample in the nearest drinking fountain. Masses of fine hair like millerite may even flash-burn in a split second like magnesium sponge. Wouldn't the sulfur dioxide be a dead give-away? Axel From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 15 11:47:37 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Fri Jul 15 11:47:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Major Collections References: <071520051528.15524.42D7D6330006572100003CA421612436469D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Message-ID: <002b01c5896d$ac646b70$78f1edc1@mpc1> > Wasn't there a late Violet Anderson? Or did I miss that in a post? She was a stalwart of the British Micromount soc. and a talented mineral photographer too. > I think we might also want to define what a "major" or "significant" > collection would be. That's a hard one.. Mick From danielz at acmenet.net Fri Jul 15 11:48:55 2005 From: danielz at acmenet.net (Dan Z) Date: Fri Jul 15 11:48:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] total number of collectors References: <42D80316.5020301@ncmail.net> Message-ID: <000301c5896d$da7d1c00$6401a8c0@M1Garand> Well, we've sold 5700 copies of our book on collecting in Eastern NY State and nearby New England. Can you extrapolate from there? -dan z- __ Today the world is the victim of propaganda because people are not intellectually competent. More than anything the United States needs effective thinkers competent to do their own thinking. -William Mather Lewis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenny Gay" To: Sent: 07/15/2005 2:40 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] total number of collectors > I like the thread about feminine collections. It got me thinking, does > anyone have any idea how many mineral collectors, male and female, there > are worldwide? > Kenny > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 15 11:57:11 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Fri Jul 15 11:57:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire In-Reply-To: <20050715160504.DEAF2A1442@marbella.infowest.com> Message-ID: <20050715185711.73894.qmail@web51003.mail.yahoo.com> Yes, it was a fire in a coal mine. The location was Nesquehoning, Pennsylvania. It may still be burning today. Incidentally, the mineral nesuehonite was first observed there. It formed as a result of that fire, around fumaroles where the fire vented to the surface. Jim Daly --- Margaret Malm wrote: > > Sounds good, Axel. > > I seem to recall some years ago reading about a > small town the was having > problems because of underground fires in a local > coal deposit, that had > been smoldering for many years. (Think it actually > started underground, in a > coal mine, in this case, but I'm not sure on that.) > > And I think I've heard that peat bog fires in > England also act in similar > ways. > > Margaret __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Fri Jul 15 12:00:57 2005 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Fri Jul 15 12:00:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42D807E9.1080903@xs4all.nl> I think fine grained is the key here. Your spontaneous combustion remembers me of the first year of my chemistry study. In one of the experiments we had to make pyrophoric iron. I do not remember the exact way we did it. But at the end of the process we had to heat an iron compound with some reducing agent at high temp in a quartz tube of about 30cm in a flow of nitrogen. I remember carefully disconnecting the tube, holding it high and let the powder flow out. It produced a neat fountain of sparks :-) Pyrite oxidation is indeed a big problem on coal dumps, where the heat can cause the remaining coal particles at the dump to cause fire. Such fires get extremely hot (often rocks melt to form so called paralavas) and they are virtually impossible to extinguish. In this case however the oxidation is helped by bacteria. I forgot the name of the creatures. But the coal fires produce an intersting array of minerals (ehh 'phases') and it is a comfortably warm collecting site for the cold winter day's :-) Cheers, Maurice James Murowchick wrote: >Are there fine-grained sulfides (e.g., pyrite) in any appreciable >concentration in the rocks? They can generate quite a bit of heat once they >start oxidizing, especially if there's a little moisture. > >I had a synthetic very fine-grained FeS (mackinawite, troilite and a >metastable cubic FeS) mixture spontaneously ignite on exposure to humid air >while weighing the powder. I first noticed the weight steadily increasing, >then when I looked at the sample, I saw a tracery of red lines and a wisp of >smoke. I spilled the sample when I pulled it out of the balance, resulting >in a nifty little sulfurous mushroom cloud in the lab. Another batch >ignited in my hand while carrying it to the microscopy lab, and I had to >drench the sample in the nearest drinking fountain. > >In De Re Metallica, Agricola reported using dew-free areas as indicators of >mineralization--the heat from oxidizing sulfides warmed the ground just >enough to hinder dew condensation. > >I really don't know what to make of the spot described in this thread. > >Jim > >Dr. James B. Murowchick >Associate Professor, Geology >Department of Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall >5110 Rockhill Rd., Kansas City, MO 64110 >816 235-2979 Fax: 816 235-5535 >murowchickj@umkc.edu > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 15 12:11:28 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Fri Jul 15 12:11:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] total number of collectors In-Reply-To: <42D80316.5020301@ncmail.net> Message-ID: <20050715191128.84933.qmail@web51007.mail.yahoo.com> That would be really tough to estimate. Perhaps if you could get the memberships of every mineral club in the world and add them up... Of course, there are quite a few collectors that belong to more than one club, but then there are some that do not belong to any club, so they may cancel out. You would have to add every club, not just national federations. There are large clubs that aren't affiliated with any federation. Jim Daly --- Kenny Gay wrote: > I like the thread about feminine collections. It got > me thinking, does > anyone have any idea how many mineral collectors, > male and female, there > are worldwide? > Kenny > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jul 15 16:39:22 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jul 15 16:36:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] total number of collectors References: <42D80316.5020301@ncmail.net> Message-ID: <42D8487E.26D5@Tomaszewski.net> Kenny Gay wrote: > > I like the thread about feminine collections. It got me thinking, does > anyone have any idea how many mineral collectors, male and female, there > are worldwide? > Kenny There are about 51,000 collectors affiliated with AFMS. I got the number as part of my research on the Rockhounds Survey (yes, we hope to have results out soon). I believe this is a membership based number that includes both individual and family membership categories, so the real number of collectors is probably closer to 75,000 individuals. Another way to estimate would be to check circulation figures for publications like 'Rock and Gem'. If someone has a few recent issues handy, and time to look thru them for the required, annual (but some magazines do it monthly), publishers statement of circulation, you should be able to find how many copies they publish for each issue. Can anyone help and provide this number? Projecting an estimate of national scope to the world always works better if you can start with several differnt measures. It cuts down the number of things you must assume. Kreigh From teyancey at mail.tca.net Fri Jul 15 16:52:17 2005 From: teyancey at mail.tca.net (Thomas Yancey) Date: Fri Jul 15 16:51:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Back from Malaysia In-Reply-To: <200507062050.j66KoZbs023259@outmx015.isp.belgacom.be> References: <200507062050.j66KoZbs023259@outmx015.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: Rik, Your comment on food is very surprising. When I lived there, the most readily available food was Chinese food, in restaurants and in food stalls on the street, and Chinese food is scarcely spiced. The beauty of the food situation when I was there was that the food was sanitary and safe in even the small stalls and shops and we did not have to worry about food problems. Perhaps these days the Indians have taken over food preparation in small restaurants. When I travelled there, we rarely ate at large restaurants. Tom Yancey >The only drawbacks for us were 1) the food (but that's our "fault", >not liking sharply spiced stuff), 2) no toilet paper >available (to be "shoplifted" from the hotel :>), 3) leeches and >mosquitos (various precautions needed !). > >Anyway, Malaysia is a SPLENDID country to visit. > >Rik DILLEN -- Thomas Yancey From jr50wv at yahoo.com Fri Jul 15 18:36:28 2005 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Fri Jul 15 18:36:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A mine fire, a female collector (maybe, kinda) and why is it hot anyway Message-ID: <20050716013628.40416.qmail@web41010.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all: The mine fire some have mentioned waas / is in Centralia PA, where a mie fire has burned beneath the town for decades now. Eventually they had to condemn the houses and make people move away, because the Carbon Monoxide was seeping up and out into basements and killing people. It's still burning. I grew up in southern WV coal fields, and when I was young (No, not THAT long ago!) in the 60s and 70s we would drive around and see in the evenings blue fire along the sides of the ridges where they dumped the slate from the tipples. There was a LOT of sulphur aroma in those days. You knew if a hollow was prosperous if you could smell a burning dump, it meant there was a working mine and jobs. There are still some underground coal seam fires, but all the burning dumps have been reclaimed, the fire dug out and killed, and the slate distributed in thin layers in soil, so it can't heat up and spontaneously combust again. In the winter you can see puffs of steamy smoke in the cold from underground fires. We bought a multi-band sensor that takes digital pictures, 2 bands in near-infrared and infrared, and we hope that we will be able to find oxygen sources for these fires and extinguish them by choking off their air. I don't have a clue about that place out in CA tho, how strange. I thought the Yellowstone guyser basins were strange, with heat from the magma right there in the topsoil. I think it's a little magma action right there, that's making it hot down there. Regarding female collectors, wasn't there a female heir to the LA newspaper fortune that collected rocks? Name escapes me, tho. Oh, well, keep on rockin' all, JR in EB oh, er WV __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html From kadok at infowest.com Fri Jul 15 20:11:21 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Fri Jul 15 20:11:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050716031116.DC31D1E306D@alora.infowest.com> Hi, Axel RIGHT ON!! ;>]] mARGARET Yes, but the absence of peat makes a pat bog fire slightly unlikely... What then is it, for peat sake? (LOL) A case of spontaneous combustion of an enigmatite layer? An outbreak of fire opal? Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm Verzonden: vrijdag 15 juli 2005 18:05 Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire Sounds good, Axel. I seem to recall some years ago reading about a small town the was having problems because of underground fires in a local coal deposit, that had been smoldering for many years. (Think it actually started underground, in a coal mine, in this case, but I'm not sure on that.) And I think I've heard that peat bog fires in England also act in similar ways. Margaret >OK, I'll pretend to belong to the smart people goup ;-))) >The story mentiones that the crew who reported the incident was or had been >putting out a forest fire. >Sometimes forest fires burn their way under ground and flare up hundreds of >meters or even miles away from where a smoldering piece of wood was not >quite thoroughly drenched with water. >Plant remains often form a spongy layer that can burn or smolder for days. >I'll admit that 11 feet is rather deep but it would explain the high >temperature. 2 cents worth from Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens jaybates Verzonden: woensdag 13 juli 2005 22:05 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire OK, all you smart people. You want to talk about rocks! Explain what is happening at this "hot spot" found last summer by a crew putting out a forest fire near Santa Barbara. Jay http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/mcrocks/vpost?id=535224 ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 9:03 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point "What is self?"] > Self can also refer to inanimate objects such as a "self-loading rifle". In > "self-collected" it is self-evident and that "self" refers to a person not a > rock. "To thy own self be true. Though this be madness, yet there is method > in 't." > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ted" > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > > Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 7:35 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point "What is self?"] > > > > Don and all: > > I am at a loss here. Perhaps my understanding of English is lacking... > But, > > > > I've never known a rock, gem, or mineral to have a concept of "self" They > > have always been "it" to me. > > > > Self is a noun that refers to oneself; an individual, I the person! Rocks > > and other physical manifestations can not and are not "selves". The prefix > > use of self, "self-" refers to the actions of an individual person, so > > envelopes can be "self-addressed". If one seriously desired an envelope to > > write it's own address I would expect the term to be "it-addressed". A > > concept and wording that are doubtful in our current reality. > > > > Yes, perhaps the term "self-collected" is limiting. Particularly many > years > > down the road when the self originally involved has moved on in existence > > leaving some other collector (also a self) trying to clarify who collected > > what where and when. > > > > In lingual amusement, > > Ted Kowalski > > Fredericksburg, VA USA > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Don H > > Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 6:37 PM > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of R&M] > > > > > > jaybates wrote: > > > By the way, I am going to continue to use "self-collected" because I > > > cannot think of a better replacement wording. > > > > How about what I suggested--"personally collected"? Collected by > > author? Or collected by [name of person]? I suppose I really > > underestimated how near and dear this term is to some folks. A bit if > > trivia--my first degree was in English, so I pay attention to some > > things that many people don't even know are potential issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jul 15 21:46:53 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jul 15 21:46:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A mine fire, a female collector (maybe, kinda) and why is it hot anyway References: <20050716013628.40416.qmail@web41010.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42D89128.3AE3@Tomaszewski.net> Cheers! I have a specimen of Native Selenium, precipitated from a lightning initiated fire of a 'coal culm bank'; collected in 1972 at Glenn Lyon, Newport Township, Luzerne County, Pennsylvania, by Bryon Brookmyer (I'm the fourth owner). Coal fires can produce some interesting and unusual minerals. My rockhounding mentor as a pebble pup was geologist, and naturalist, Dr. Mary Jane Dockeray (who I still have the great pleasure of seeing occasionally, after almost 50 years). I grew up with Aleta's Rock Shop (which has sadly closed, after several owners). I'm more interested reasons why female collectors wouldn't be as common, or expected, as male collectors. Statistics, and my experience, show that roughly two out of three rockhounds are male; the sexes are also appear equal in ability. My wife typically finds better, and/or more unusual, specimens on a mine dump than I do. She may also enjoy collecting more than me; she has little interest in the process that puts an identified specimen into the collection. What are the differences, and similarities, between male and female rockhounds? And why? [flames off-list please] Kreigh J. R. Hodel wrote: > > Hi all: > > The mine fire some have mentioned waas / is in > Centralia PA, where a mie fire has burned beneath the > town for decades now. Eventually they had to condemn > the houses and make people move away, because the > Carbon Monoxide was seeping up and out into basements > and killing people. > > It's still burning. > > I grew up in southern WV coal fields, and when I was > young (No, not THAT long ago!) in the 60s and 70s we > would drive around and see in the evenings blue fire > along the sides of the ridges where they dumped the > slate from the tipples. > > There was a LOT of sulphur aroma in those days. You > knew if a hollow was prosperous if you could smell a > burning dump, it meant there was a working mine and > jobs. > > There are still some underground coal seam fires, but > all the burning dumps have been reclaimed, the fire > dug out and killed, and the slate distributed in thin > layers in soil, so it can't heat up and spontaneously > combust again. In the winter you can see puffs of > steamy smoke in the cold from underground fires. > > We bought a multi-band sensor that takes digital > pictures, 2 bands in near-infrared and infrared, and > we hope that we will be able to find oxygen sources > for these fires and extinguish them by choking off > their air. > > I don't have a clue about that place out in CA tho, > how strange. I thought the Yellowstone guyser basins > were strange, with heat from the magma right there in > the topsoil. I think it's a little magma action right > there, that's making it hot down there. > > Regarding female collectors, wasn't there a female > heir to the LA newspaper fortune that collected rocks? > Name escapes me, tho. > > Oh, well, keep on rockin' all, > > JR in EB oh, er WV From tam2819 at cox.net Fri Jul 15 22:32:16 2005 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Fri Jul 15 22:32:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: a female collector In-Reply-To: <42D89128.3AE3@Tomaszewski.net> References: <20050716013628.40416.qmail@web41010.mail.yahoo.com> <42D89128.3AE3@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Kreigh, Speaking for myself, there should be no difference. I get as much pleasure as the next person out on a field trip, and cherish the moments of discovery. I find the line is drawn as to the probable end of found piece. I look at my finds from the potential of being a focal point in a piece of jewelry I fabricate. Many men feel I am defiling the "specimen." Yes I know this thread began about female mineral collectors, I too collect for display, just not in a showcase or Museum. There does not seem to be any love lost between the two arenas. It may be a bit different where faceting is involved, I am not sure. Heavy digging is a problem for me, I just do not have the upper body strength to swing a heavy tool, nor the ability to carry a heavy rock down a hill. I have been known to roll one down. I can cut and polish, usually prefer natural shape to calibrated rounds or ovals. I build my metal to match the stone, not the other way around. I do like natural shapes and design for them. I have no quarrel with other opinions. From tam2819 at cox.net Fri Jul 15 22:50:20 2005 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Fri Jul 15 22:50:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] a female collector In-Reply-To: <20050716013628.40416.qmail@web41010.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050716013628.40416.qmail@web41010.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7057459494ac5461b0505d275236bb0f@cox.net> JR, Josie Scripps is the lady you mention. She was very well known to San Diego area Rock and Mineral Clubs. Terrie From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Fri Jul 15 20:57:59 2005 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Fri Jul 15 22:58:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A mine fire, a female collector (maybe, kinda) and why is it hot anyway References: <20050716013628.40416.qmail@web41010.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002c01c589ba$930f4120$6400a8c0@mshome.net> There's an article in the May, 2005 Smithsonian magazine about this. They say that the Centralia, PA coal fire has been burning for 43 years and opine that it may burn for another 250 years before it runs out of fuel. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. R. Hodel" > The mine fire some have mentioned waas / is in > Centralia PA, where a mie fire has burned beneath the > town for decades now. From JWachsmuth at gmx.de Sat Jul 16 00:07:43 2005 From: JWachsmuth at gmx.de (Juergen Wachsmuth) Date: Sat Jul 16 01:14:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounding cartoons ? References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050626091458.0252e550@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <42D8B23F.312B98B4@gmx.de> Hello, for illustrating posters I am trying to find any cartoons, drawings or graphics that have to do with rockhounding or mineral collecting. Does anyone have any ideas or links? Regards, J?rgen Wachsmuth Ulm - Germany From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 16 04:44:46 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Sat Jul 16 04:45:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A mine fire, a female collector (maybe, kinda) and why is it hot anyway References: <20050716013628.40416.qmail@web41010.mail.yahoo.com> <42D89128.3AE3@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <002901c589fb$d86fcf50$78f1edc1@mpc1> > What are the differences, and similarities, between male and female > rockhounds? And why? [flames off-list please] Research in Europe shows that the collecting instinct has a gender bias: men tend to collect for systematics (science if you like) and women tend to collect for souvenirs (art) - "the tears of things." Of course, museums *should* collect for both. Could explain why Kreigh's wife is good at spotting things, but isn't so interested in the systematics of the collection. However, it doesn't explain why women staff dominate in museums (here in England anyway) and on heritage and museum courses. Nor, when the contrary might therefore be expected, why natural history museums are yet to get a proper grip (with a few notable exceptions) on the cultural (non-scientific) aspects of the subject. It's possible the former may be just be because museums don't pay much and most men want money for their efforts rather than job satisfaction...? Mick From dpowell13 at Rochester.rr.com Sat Jul 16 06:56:08 2005 From: dpowell13 at Rochester.rr.com (Darryl Powell) Date: Sat Jul 16 06:56:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounding cartoons ? References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050626091458.0252e550@incoming.verizon.net> <42D8B23F.312B98B4@gmx.de> Message-ID: <00f801c58a0e$1f143380$2c8da918@6663r01> Dear Jurgen, I have a collection of mineral and crystal drawings, character drawings and mineral cartoons (some of which have been published in Rocks & Minerals magazine). Most are in black and white, about 1/3 are in color. Total of about 450 images. They are in TIFF and JPG format. Email me off list (diamonddan@rochester.rr.com) and we can figure out the details of making them available for your use. I look forward to hearing from you. Sincerely, Darryl Powell Manchester, New York ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juergen Wachsmuth" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 3:07 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounding cartoons ? > Hello, > > for illustrating posters I am trying to find any cartoons, drawings or > graphics > that have to do with rockhounding or mineral collecting. Does anyone have > any > ideas or links? > > Regards, > > J?rgen Wachsmuth > Ulm - Germany > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 16 07:11:31 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sat Jul 16 07:11:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounding cartoons ? In-Reply-To: <42D8B23F.312B98B4@gmx.de> Message-ID: <20050716141131.21698.qmail@web51005.mail.yahoo.com> Rocks & Minerals has published many cartoons over the years, mostly by Marcel Vanek. They are copyrighted by the artist, who is Czech, I believe. Rocks & Minerals could probably put you in contact with him for permission to use his work, and a larger body of material. Jim Daly --- Juergen Wachsmuth wrote: > Hello, > > for illustrating posters I am trying to find any > cartoons, drawings or graphics > that have to do with rockhounding or mineral > collecting. Does anyone have any > ideas or links? > > Regards, > > J?rgen Wachsmuth > Ulm - Germany > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From bg at his.com Sat Jul 16 07:43:21 2005 From: bg at his.com (Catherine Gaber) Date: Sat Jul 16 07:43:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A mine fire, a female collector (maybe, kinda) and why is it hot anyway In-Reply-To: <002901c589fb$d86fcf50$78f1edc1@mpc1> References: <20050716013628.40416.qmail@web41010.mail.yahoo.com> <42D89128.3AE3@Tomaszewski.net> <002901c589fb$d86fcf50$78f1edc1@mpc1> Message-ID: <10f82bcfdb1b69e932038c6ba4b85233@his.com> On Jul 16, 2005, at 7:44 AM, Mick Cooper wrote: > However, it doesn't explain why women staff dominate in museums (here > in England anyway) and on heritage and museum courses. I can not speak for other museums, but at the Smithsonian, all the mineral people are men and the petrologists are women. Cathy From spocksrocks at hotmail.com Sat Jul 16 07:57:41 2005 From: spocksrocks at hotmail.com (Scott Blair) Date: Sat Jul 16 07:58:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Trip to Bahia, Brazil, and sunstones in Oregon References: Message-ID: Dear list: I'm going to Salvador, in Bahia, in a couple months and thought I would ask our venerable list if anyone has been there and would like to share some info. I picked Bahia out of the hat so to speak, because that's where I've been told the rutile quartz comes from. Also, does anyone have a suggestion as to where I could order a good, detailed city map of Salvador? If you'd like to reply offlist, it's spocksrocks@hotmail.com. Thanks in advance for any help here. Sunstone digging was OK at the Spectrum Mine, near Plush, Oregon. We screened for a few hours, before it got to be siesta time, and came up with a pretty good handful of copper schiller stones, (I'd actually never found a schiller stone before, so it was nice to find a few) and of course, the usual compliment of clear stones, which I'm not sure what anyone does with those. The signage at the mine is cute - everything has a little sign - painstakingly hand lettered in the depths of desert boredom - from yonder dirt pile, to the rusting hulk of mining equipment, to the barren sage patch, which doesn't really seem to require a sign, but has a sign anyway. Signs warn of everything from washing your hands, to keeping greed out of your heart. Which is a reasonable notion, I reckon. Hats off to Chris Rose for keeping this place open, despite vandalism, running the power shovel from time to time, and keeping it free to the public as an alternative to digging at the overgrazed public area. My only request ( and I submit this request with much respect) would be to refresh the screening piles at the edge of the pits more periodically during the months of higher visitation, since one is not allowed to dig in the actual pits, due to liability. On the way back home to Ashland, Oregon, I found an interesting, bright red mineral at the old quartz mine, at Quartz Mountain pass, on Highway 140, between Lakeview and Klamath Falls. It occurs as a red stain, in along side of a clear gray agate seam in highly fractured cobbled quartz. The sun has apparently bleached any trace of red color from the surface, because one doesn't see anything until you start peeling the wall. Then, all of a sudden there is this blood red color. A local mineralogical honcho (Thanks for that one, Rock:) hazarded a guess that it might be metastibnite, but beyond that, I don't have a clue. Surprising color though. Happy Hounding - Scott Blair From pjmodreski at att.net Sat Jul 16 08:01:17 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Sat Jul 16 08:01:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Major Collections Message-ID: <071620051501.29418.42D9213B000D5249000072EA216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Another woman who has a significant mineral collection is Barbara Muntyan (earlier of Denver, now of Ouray and Tucson, and formerly the curator of the Ouray Museum) who specializes in Colorado minerals and has written a number of articles about Colorado minerals (Colorado fluorite, calcite, rhodochrosite, sphalerite, etc.) that have appeared in Rocks & Minerals over the past decade. It has always occurred to me that, although many women (whether spouses or not of another rockhound) belong to local clubs and go on field trips, it is I think the exception to find a female collector who systematizes her collection to the point of entering information in a written catalog of specimens. That (trying to be careful not be sexist or make unwarranted stereotypic assumptions) seems to be kind of a "male" thing to do, for the most part. Although, I have noted from the posts here (and from people I know too) that a lot of micromount collectors are female, and I'm sure they maintain a catalog. Another well known female collector is Kay Robertson, of CA, who specializes in eastern European minerals and often exhibits in Tucson; and also the late Becky Bird. Pete -------------- Original message from "Horst Windisch" : -------------- > Hi List, > > I know of quite a few woman micromounters who have built up sizeable and > significant collections:- > > The late Ruth Cole Wertz > The late Marcelle Weber > Juanita Curtis > > Please forgive me if I have left out some. > > Regards, > Horst > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Darryl Powell" > To: "Rockhounds List" > Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 9:49 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Major Collections > > > Dear Rockhounds, > In the recent Min Record I see that Collector's Edge has acquired Marty > Zinn's collection and is now beginning to sell the specimens. It made me > think that all the major collections are built by men (Clarence Bement, F. > John Barlow, Dave Wilbur, Joseph Freilich, etc.) Could anyone on the list > point out a significant collection put together by a woman mineral > collector? June Culp Zeitner's collection is housed somewhere in South > Dakota, I believe, but beyond this, I am stumped. It would be interesting > to see profiles of women mineral collectors in Min Record, Rocks & Minerals, > etc. Any thoughts out there?? > > Best wishes to all. > Darryl Powell > Manchester, New York > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From agesilaus at gmail.com Sat Jul 16 08:27:39 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Jul 16 08:28:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire In-Reply-To: <200507150444.j6F4idWl016616@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <000901c58892$66217a80$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <200507150444.j6F4idWl016616@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: I don't believe magnesium or any Group I or II metals ( sodium, potassium, calcium ect) exist in the elemental state because they are so unstable. They only exist in a combined form like Magnesium Carbonate. Bryan On 7/15/05, Bob Loeffler wrote: > Maybe some magnesium (metal) got stirred up during the landslide and was > exposed to water. I heard that it can get very hot and burn even in water > (or maybe it's another element that I'm thinking of). > > Just an idea... I'm not a chemist... Please don't kill me... :-) > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of jaybates > Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 10:38 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire > > Axel, good 2 cents worth. > > However I don't think that is the answer for a number of reasons. One, the > firefighters and scientists involved in the hot spot are aware of such > possibilites as roots burning underground. Many years ago I spent a number > of summers as a fire fighter in the western states. We were aware of burning > roots and did our best to put them out. Sometimes in a very few instances, > they would continue to burn underground through the winter, but in all cases > of which I am aware they only burned in an isolated spot, not over an area > of two football fields. What you say may be correct in forests with a thick > mat of duff (vegatative mat on the ground) but the forest as seen in the > photos does not have a thick mat of duff. Actually the ground looks more > like the Arizona desert than a temperate forest. The forests north of Santa > Barbara are very hot and dry places in the summer and the trees do not > produce much ground litter. I live in California and I am familiar with the > California forests. > > I am beginning to wonder whether the site may be a hot spot that was > unusually near the surface and that are usually associated with hot springs > and the hot spot was exposed by a landslide. I have a very difficult time > believing it is a chemical reaction caused by various minerals in the rocks > exposed by a landslide. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Axel Emmermann" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 8:52 AM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire > > > > OK, I'll pretend to belong to the smart people goup ;-))) > > > > The story mentiones that the crew who reported the incident was or had > been > > putting out a forest fire. > > Sometimes forest fires burn their way under ground and flare up hundreds > of > > meters or even miles away from where a smoldering piece of wood was not > > quite thoroughly drenched with water. > > > > Plant remains often form a spongy layer that can burn or smolder for days. > > I'll admit that 11 feet is rather deep but it would explain the high > > temperature. > > > > 2 cents worth from > > > > Axel > > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens jaybates > > Verzonden: woensdag 13 juli 2005 22:05 > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire > > > > > > OK, all you smart people. You want to talk about rocks! Explain what is > > happening at this "hot spot" found last summer by a crew putting out a > > forest fire near Santa Barbara. Jay > > > > http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/mcrocks/vpost?id=535224 > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "jaybates" > > To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for > rock > > and gem collectors" > > Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 9:03 PM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point "What is self?"] > > > > > > > Self can also refer to inanimate objects such as a "self-loading rifle". > > In > > > "self-collected" it is self-evident and that "self" refers to a person > not > > a > > > rock. "To thy own self be true. Though this be madness, yet there is > > method > > > in 't." > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Ted" > > > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors'" > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 7:35 PM > > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point "What is self?"] > > > > > > > > > > Don and all: > > > > I am at a loss here. Perhaps my understanding of English is lacking... > > > But, > > > > > > > > I've never known a rock, gem, or mineral to have a concept of "self" > > They > > > > have always been "it" to me. > > > > > > > > Self is a noun that refers to oneself; an individual, I the person! > > Rocks > > > > and other physical manifestations can not and are not "selves". The > > prefix > > > > use of self, "self-" refers to the actions of an individual person, so > > > > envelopes can be "self-addressed". If one seriously desired an > envelope > > to > > > > write it's own address I would expect the term to be "it-addressed". A > > > > concept and wording that are doubtful in our current reality. > > > > > > > > Yes, perhaps the term "self-collected" is limiting. Particularly many > > > years > > > > down the road when the self originally involved has moved on in > > existence > > > > leaving some other collector (also a self) trying to clarify who > > collected > > > > what where and when. > > > > > > > > In lingual amusement, > > > > Ted Kowalski > > > > Fredericksburg, VA USA > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Don H > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 6:37 PM > > > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: grammatical point in latest issue of > > R&M] > > > > > > > > > > > > jaybates wrote: > > > > > By the way, I am going to continue to use "self-collected" because I > > > > > cannot think of a better replacement wording. > > > > > > > > How about what I suggested--"personally collected"? Collected by > > > > author? Or collected by [name of person]? I suppose I really > > > > underestimated how near and dear this term is to some folks. A bit if > > > > trivia--my first degree was in English, so I pay attention to some > > > > things that many people don't even know are potential issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > > Subscription Services: > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 16 09:43:06 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Sat Jul 16 09:43:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A mine fire, a female collector (maybe, kinda) and why is it hot anyway References: <20050716013628.40416.qmail@web41010.mail.yahoo.com><42D89128.3AE3@Tomaszewski.net><002901c589fb$d86fcf50$78f1edc1@mpc1> <10f82bcfdb1b69e932038c6ba4b85233@his.com> Message-ID: <000301c58a25$71c66e60$78f1edc1@mpc1> I was speaking of the generality of museum disciplines. At the Nottingham museum (where I work) The geologist (we don't have a big enough collection to subdivide!) is a man and the zoologist is a woman. And the botanist's post is currently vacant... Mick ----- Original Message ----- >> However, it doesn't explain why women staff dominate in museums (here in >> England anyway) and on heritage and museum courses. > > I can not speak for other museums, but at the Smithsonian, all the mineral > people are men and the petrologists are women. Go figure that one out! From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 16 09:45:44 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Sat Jul 16 09:45:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A mine fire, a female collector (maybe, kinda) and why is it hot anyway References: <20050716013628.40416.qmail@web41010.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000901c58a25$cff10770$78f1edc1@mpc1> Wasn't there a big pyrite fire in the US decades ago? I think they pumped water into it to damp it down and it formed all sorts of bizarre minerals. Was it at Jerome? Mick From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 16 09:49:05 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Sat Jul 16 09:49:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] total number of collectors References: <42D80316.5020301@ncmail.net> <42D8487E.26D5@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000d01c58a26$47c3ece0$78f1edc1@mpc1> > Another way to estimate would be to check circulation figures for > publications like 'Rock and Gem'. If someone has a few recent issues > handy, and time to look thru them for the required, annual (but some > magazines do it monthly), publishers statement of circulation, you > should be able to find how many copies they publish for each issue. Can > anyone help and provide this number? Some years ago I compared a few magazines. It was something like the UK Journal of mines and Minerals came out twice a year (or less) and went to about 500 subscribers. Min Rec. came out 6 times and year and went to 8,000. And Lapis (in German) came out once a month and went to 15,000. Lead me to believe that national variations can be rather large. Mick From lanny at lrream.com Sat Jul 16 10:11:44 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sat Jul 16 10:11:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] total number of collectors In-Reply-To: <20050715191128.84933.qmail@web51007.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050715191128.84933.qmail@web51007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3f8f50dae9fbc2a615f90e55d16e70d9@lrream.com> This won't work, and neither would looking at the numbers of subscribers to the magazines. Over the years I've developed the feeling that most collectors do not belong to clubs and do not subscribe to magazines. I subscribe to five mineral magazines, so any counting through subscriptions will count me five times. That might be looked on as canceling out five non-subcribers, but any such "deduction" is of course completely inaccurate and misleading. Similarly, I belong to three organizations, four if you count AMS. This question of how many mineral/gem/lapidary/rock collectors there are pops up in various forums off and on and won't be answered without some money and a scientific approach to produce a "created" "guesstimate" like the government and watch dog bodies love to do. Any method it is done, because of the duplications of memberships, subscriptions, show attendance, etc., the resultant number will always be suspect, it can only be a "best guess" type of answer. The latest publication statement in The Min. Rec. has 5,383 paid subscriptions. Does that mean there are only 5,383 mineral collectors? Oops, can't be, many of those subscriptions go to libraries and universities. Rocks & Minerals show 5,590 copies distributed each month. These numbers mean nothing useful (except that subscription rates are way down from a few years ago for the MR-in 1995 MR had 6,504 subscribers; and up for R&M- 4,230 in 1995 (7,268 in 1971)). Any reasonable guess is that there are a lot more mineral collectors in the USA than the current subscriber numbers added together. Regards, Lanny On Jul 15, 2005, at 12:11 PM, Jim Daly wrote: > That would be really tough to estimate. Perhaps if you > could get the memberships of every mineral club in the > world and add them up... > Of course, there are quite a few collectors that > belong to more than one club, but then there are some > that do not belong to any club, so they may cancel > out. > You would have to add every club, not just national > federations. There are large clubs that aren't > affiliated with any federation. > Jim Daly > > > --- Kenny Gay wrote: > >> I like the thread about feminine collections. It got >> me thinking, does >> anyone have any idea how many mineral collectors, >> male and female, there >> are worldwide? >> Kenny >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > > > > ____________________________________________________ > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From jaybates at rcn.com Sat Jul 16 10:23:57 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sat Jul 16 10:22:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A mine fire, a female collector (maybe, kinda) and why is it hot anyway References: <20050716013628.40416.qmail@web41010.mail.yahoo.com> <000901c58a25$cff10770$78f1edc1@mpc1> Message-ID: <000701c58a2b$26e69680$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Right your are. http://www.mindat.org/loc-3346.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mick Cooper" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] A mine fire, a female collector (maybe,kinda) and why is it hot anyway > Wasn't there a big pyrite fire in the US decades ago? I think they pumped > water into it to damp it down and it formed all sorts of bizarre minerals. > Was it at Jerome? > > Mick > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From morningstar at att.net Sat Jul 16 10:56:47 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Sat Jul 16 10:56:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] total number of collectors Message-ID: <071620051756.19757.42D94A5F0006F3B700004D2D21602806519D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Lanny > This won't work, and neither would looking at the numbers of > subscribers to the magazines. ... And again, what constitutes a "collector"? I have met people who have a few unlabeled pieces of yard rock on a shelf and call themselves collectors; at the other end of the spectrum are people whose collections rival museums. The count of attendees at major shows like Tuscon or the number of regular customers counted by major international mineral dealers might also help, but as Lanny and others pointed out, you would need to be a real demographic statistician to make any real sense of such data since the raw numbers themselves can lead to false conclusions. I'm not sure of the purpose of this query, but like the others I would find it difficult to come up with a very accurate number. Don From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 16 11:48:14 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sat Jul 16 11:48:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A mine fire, a female collector (maybe, kinda) and why is it hot anyway In-Reply-To: <000901c58a25$cff10770$78f1edc1@mpc1> Message-ID: <20050716184814.26561.qmail@web51009.mail.yahoo.com> All kinds of bizarre chemical compounds. They aren't minerals, since they were formed, at least in part, by human intervention. Jim Daly --- Mick Cooper wrote: > Wasn't there a big pyrite fire in the US decades > ago? I think they pumped > water into it to damp it down and it formed all > sorts of bizarre minerals. > Was it at Jerome? > > Mick > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sat Jul 16 12:28:12 2005 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sat Jul 16 12:28:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: mine fires In-Reply-To: <20050716184814.26561.qmail@web51009.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050716184814.26561.qmail@web51009.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42D95FCC.80305@xs4all.nl> SOME kinds of minerals and SOME kinds of chemicals. Most compounds formed in these processes are normal IMA approved species. Only somewhere in the 1990s IMA decided that these paragenese had a anthropogenic component, so it stopped approving newly discovered minerals, but failed to discredit the ones already approved... For instance Hoelite, discovered in1921 at the burning coalseams at Spitzbergen, after a Swedish engineer decided he wanted to check if the coal seams were economical worth while. He set the seams on fire and they burnt for several years...... This shows some of disrepancies of the IMA rules. The only human action in coal dump fires is that the coal and rock was dug up and thrown on the dump. The fires started naturally in all cases I studied, except for the Spitzbergen fires in the 1920's. If we extrapolate this IMA rule, ALL secondary minerals found (and most likely formed) on dumps are no mineral either. The same is of course true for the many slag minerals like the ancient ones from Lavrion. Cheers, Maurice Jim Daly wrote: >All kinds of bizarre chemical compounds. They aren't >minerals, since they were formed, at least in part, by >human intervention. >Jim Daly > >--- Mick Cooper wrote: > > > >>Wasn't there a big pyrite fire in the US decades >>ago? I think they pumped >>water into it to damp it down and it formed all >>sorts of bizarre minerals. >>Was it at Jerome? >> >>Mick >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From tim at orerockon.com Sat Jul 16 12:51:12 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sat Jul 16 12:51:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Trip to Bahia, Brazil, and sunstones in Oregon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050716115707.0265dd10@mail.spiritone.com> My guess is realgar, cinnabar, or other mercuric mineral. There are several inactive mercury mines on Quartz Mtn. & Quartz Butte. At 07:57 AM 7/16/2005, you wrote: >Dear list: > > >On the way back home to Ashland, Oregon, I found an interesting, bright red >mineral at the old quartz mine, at Quartz Mountain pass, on Highway 140, >between Lakeview and Klamath Falls. It occurs as a red stain, in along side >of a clear gray agate seam in highly fractured cobbled quartz. The sun has >apparently bleached any trace of red color from the surface, because one >doesn't see anything until you start peeling the wall. Then, all of a sudden >there is this blood red color. A local mineralogical honcho (Thanks for that >one, Rock:) hazarded a guess that it might be metastibnite, but beyond that, >I don't have a clue. Surprising color though. > >Happy Hounding - Scott Blair Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From morningstar at att.net Sat Jul 16 13:46:58 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Sat Jul 16 13:47:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: mine fires Message-ID: <071620052046.25600.42D97241000BCBE80000640021603760219D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Maurice de Graaf > SOME kinds of minerals and SOME kinds of chemicals. Most compounds > formed in these processes are normal IMA approved species. . . . Hi all, The full text of the IMA CNMMN nomenclature guidelines can be found here: http://www.mineralogicalassociation.ca/images/ima98(01).pdf You need Acrobat Reader to view the page. Use the search tool in Acrobat to find the term "anthropogenic", and you will be taken to the relevant section (Substances formed by human intervention). It is also interesting to read the next section, "Biogenic substances." As the introduction says, these are guidelines, but each case must be judged on its own merits. The members of the Commission on New Minerals and Mineral Names approve new minerals based on the case presented for each one and in light of current guidelines. To render the discussion into its absurdest form, one could try to draw a distinction between the act of my throwing a plate of yucky spinach out my window on to a rock of naturally-occurring calcite in my backyard (I acutally like spinach), where whewellite eventually forms, versus my mixing oxalic acid and calcite in a test tube to grow whewellite crystals. The first act would be considered anthropogenic but some would argue that the whewellite occured naturally because my discarding the spinach there was accidental (BTW, spinach is rich in oxalic acid); the second act would definitely be considered a synthesis and the resulting crystals would, technically speaking, be called "calcium oxalate, the synthetic analogue of whewellite." How's that for causing a headache. (disclaimer: I am not at all certain that whewellite crystals can form this simply, but the comparison is valid). In any case, the reader is encouraged to make their own decision on this issue after reading the section above and, if motivated, the entire article. Best, Don From kadok at infowest.com Sat Jul 16 13:59:49 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sat Jul 16 13:59:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A mine fire, a female collector (maybe, kinda) and why is it hot anyway In-Reply-To: <42D89128.3AE3@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <20050716205943.216ACA1076@marbella.infowest.com> Hi, Kreigh (and this is certainly not meant as a "flame -- just pointing our some of the facts of life ;>}} My theory as to why female collectors are less common, is sort of like this -- Women have typically (and especially up until fairly recently) been classed as the brainless, ambitionless, "weaker sex", dainty people who are supposed to be content to stay at home and keep house, cook, wash, have kids, raise the kids, be the servant of the male, etc. etc. etc. while men "did the "work"" --!!! Rockhounding requires one to get out and use ones muscles (and minds) to find and collect (and identify) the rocks. It is only fairly recently that women started standing up for their rights and were finaly recognized to be real people who are capable of doing all sorts of things just as well as men are. (Or better! ;>}} We just haven't had a chance to catch up yet! Margaret Kreigh wrote: >...I'm more interested reasons why female collectors wouldn't be as common, or expected, as male collectors. Statistics, and my experience, show that roughly two out of three rockhounds are male; the sexes are also appear equal in ability. My wife typically finds better, and/or more unusual, specimens on a mine dump than I do. She may also enjoy collecting more than me; she has little interest in the process that puts an identified specimen into the collection. What are the differences, and similarities, between male and female rockhounds? And why? [flames off-list please] Kreigh From kadok at infowest.com Sat Jul 16 14:00:04 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sat Jul 16 14:00:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A mine fire, a female collector (maybe, kinda) and why is it hot anyway In-Reply-To: <42D89128.3AE3@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <20050716205957.D33A2A1076@marbella.infowest.com> -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kreigh Tomaszewski Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 9:47 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] A mine fire, a female collector (maybe,kinda) and why is it hot anyway Cheers! I have a specimen of Native Selenium, precipitated from a lightning initiated fire of a 'coal culm bank'; collected in 1972 at Glenn Lyon, Newport Township, Luzerne County, Pennsylvania, by Bryon Brookmyer (I'm the fourth owner). Coal fires can produce some interesting and unusual minerals. My rockhounding mentor as a pebble pup was geologist, and naturalist, Dr. Mary Jane Dockeray (who I still have the great pleasure of seeing occasionally, after almost 50 years). I grew up with Aleta's Rock Shop (which has sadly closed, after several owners). I'm more interested reasons why female collectors wouldn't be as common, or expected, as male collectors. Statistics, and my experience, show that roughly two out of three rockhounds are male; the sexes are also appear equal in ability. My wife typically finds better, and/or more unusual, specimens on a mine dump than I do. She may also enjoy collecting more than me; she has little interest in the process that puts an identified specimen into the collection. What are the differences, and similarities, between male and female rockhounds? And why? [flames off-list please] Kreigh J. R. Hodel wrote: > > Hi all: > > The mine fire some have mentioned waas / is in > Centralia PA, where a mie fire has burned beneath the > town for decades now. Eventually they had to condemn > the houses and make people move away, because the > Carbon Monoxide was seeping up and out into basements > and killing people. > > It's still burning. > > I grew up in southern WV coal fields, and when I was > young (No, not THAT long ago!) in the 60s and 70s we > would drive around and see in the evenings blue fire > along the sides of the ridges where they dumped the > slate from the tipples. > > There was a LOT of sulphur aroma in those days. You > knew if a hollow was prosperous if you could smell a > burning dump, it meant there was a working mine and > jobs. > > There are still some underground coal seam fires, but > all the burning dumps have been reclaimed, the fire > dug out and killed, and the slate distributed in thin > layers in soil, so it can't heat up and spontaneously > combust again. In the winter you can see puffs of > steamy smoke in the cold from underground fires. > > We bought a multi-band sensor that takes digital > pictures, 2 bands in near-infrared and infrared, and > we hope that we will be able to find oxygen sources > for these fires and extinguish them by choking off > their air. > > I don't have a clue about that place out in CA tho, > how strange. I thought the Yellowstone guyser basins > were strange, with heat from the magma right there in > the topsoil. I think it's a little magma action right > there, that's making it hot down there. > > Regarding female collectors, wasn't there a female > heir to the LA newspaper fortune that collected rocks? > Name escapes me, tho. > > Oh, well, keep on rockin' all, > > JR in EB oh, er WV _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at verizon.net Sat Jul 16 16:34:48 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Jul 16 16:34:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grammer/ Self Collected/... Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050716132924.025fc0e8@incoming.verizon.net> At 07:42 AM 7/14/2005, morningstar wrote: >You can always discard or ignore information you don't want; but you >can't deal with information that isn't there. >I don't believe in dumbing down, that's the bottom line. I do believe in >adaptive information, that is, you can present information in layers so >that it appeals to all levels of recipient--this was the success of >Shakespeare. By making people aware of the more detailed levels of >information available to them, you inspire them to grow and learn and >transcend themselves. In reaching for the stars, we might just touch the sky. >Don BRAVO!!! I agree. Very well put. Thanks, Don. Aloha, Kitty (who has only now gotten back on-line after DSL was out in our neighborhood for 3 days). From teyancey at mail.tca.net Sat Jul 16 17:12:29 2005 From: teyancey at mail.tca.net (Thomas Yancey) Date: Sat Jul 16 17:11:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Laytonville Longvale quarry, California query In-Reply-To: <1121099092_3956@S3.cableone.net> References: <1121099092_3956@S3.cableone.net> Message-ID: Over the past year or so, a couple people have asked questions about the minerals present in the Longvale quarry at Laytonville, California, which is the type locality for deerite, howieite and zussmanite. Samples of rock from this quarry are available from dealers. Although there are detailed mineralogical reports on the three newly named minerals, the new minerals occur in a matrix with other common minerals which are not described in those reports. The mineralogical reports focus on the new minerals, not on the mineral assemblage of the rock. In the absence of petrographic examination, some of the matrix minerals can be confused with the newly named minerals, especially the howieite. If I can get some help in visual determination of the common minerals in the rock samples, it would save from having to get an analysis done. I am most uncertain about the distinction between deerite, howieite, aegirine and reibeckite in these samples. Although there is some variation in the rocks containing these new minerals, the commonly offered mineral assemblage is a rock composed of common black bladed crystals of moderate size (few mm to cm), arranged in a preferred orientation and sometimes arranged in radial clusters co-occurring with a smaller amount of tiny (<1-2 mm, very small diameter) bluish needles arranged in thin layers (the layers of tiny bluish needles are soft enough to be bent); these occur with varied anhedral clear minerals, presumably including quartz. I am curious about the identity of both the black bladed crystals and the tiny bluish needles. Since aegirine and reibeckite are common rock-forming minerals in the metamorphosed rock containing the deerite, howieite and zussmannite assemblage, am I correct in thinking that the two prismatic minerals are aegirine and reibeckite respectively? If so, how does deerite - which was originally described as occurring in radiating clusters embedded in aegirine - differ visually from aegirine? If anyone is familiar with this the minerals in this rock type, I would appreciate hearing about the minerals that can be identified visually. Tom Yancey -- Thomas Yancey From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sat Jul 16 19:43:47 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sat Jul 16 19:43:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] total number of collectors References: <20050715191128.84933.qmail@web51007.mail.yahoo.com> <3f8f50dae9fbc2a615f90e55d16e70d9@lrream.com> Message-ID: <005801c58a79$5b729900$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I agree that determining the number of rockhounds is difficult to ascertain without help from either a national marketing effort (incredibly expensive) or a national census survey question. I attended a museum conference last month and the guest speaker was a demographic statistician. He was very good at converting mindboggling complex data into interesting facts. Relating to the topic at hand, there is a general discussion among virtually all geology clubs lamenting the lack of youth. This connects with the lamentation of state governments concerning the "brain-drain" -- young people leaving the state after college and getting jobs elsewhere. The problem is that almost all states have the same situation! How can this be so? Simple actually... after the "baby boom" [1946-64] came the "baby bust [1965 - ~1980]." Fewer babies mean fewer rockhounds, engineers, scientists, etc. This means equivalent vast number of youth of the 50's & 60's were NEVER BORN in the 80's and 90's! Someone who was never born can not join a rock club. You want to hear something really crazy? China is going to be hurting big time in about 25 years. Four grandparents, two parents, one child... how would you like an economy that one worker is supporting up to six retired adults? Better get you Chinese minerals now, because in 25 years, they won't have enough miners! On a positive note, we may be able to reopen the Illinois - Kentucky fluorspar district because the U.S. (and any immigrant nation) will be in pretty good shape economically -- according to the demogaphic statistician! Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 1:11 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] total number of collectors > This won't work, and neither would looking at the numbers of subscribers > to the magazines. Over the years I've developed the feeling that most > collectors do not belong to clubs and do not subscribe to magazines. I > subscribe to five mineral magazines, so any counting through subscriptions > will count me five times. That might be looked on as canceling out five > non-subcribers, but any such "deduction" is of course completely > inaccurate and misleading. > > Similarly, I belong to three organizations, four if you count AMS. > > This question of how many mineral/gem/lapidary/rock collectors there are > pops up in various forums off and on and won't be answered without some > money and a scientific approach to produce a "created" "guesstimate" like > the government and watch dog bodies love to do. Any method it is done, > because of the duplications of memberships, subscriptions, show > attendance, etc., the resultant number will always be suspect, it can only > be a "best guess" type of answer. > > The latest publication statement in The Min. Rec. has 5,383 paid > subscriptions. Does that mean there are only 5,383 mineral collectors? > Oops, can't be, many of those subscriptions go to libraries and > universities. Rocks & Minerals show 5,590 copies distributed each month. > > These numbers mean nothing useful (except that subscription rates are way > down from a few years ago for the MR-in 1995 MR had 6,504 subscribers; and > up for R&M- 4,230 in 1995 (7,268 in 1971)). Any reasonable guess is that > there are a lot more mineral collectors in the USA than the current > subscriber numbers added together. > > Regards, > > Lanny > > > On Jul 15, 2005, at 12:11 PM, Jim Daly wrote: > >> That would be really tough to estimate. Perhaps if you >> could get the memberships of every mineral club in the >> world and add them up... >> Of course, there are quite a few collectors that >> belong to more than one club, but then there are some >> that do not belong to any club, so they may cancel >> out. >> You would have to add every club, not just national >> federations. There are large clubs that aren't >> affiliated with any federation. >> Jim Daly >> >> >> --- Kenny Gay wrote: >> >>> I like the thread about feminine collections. It got >>> me thinking, does >>> anyone have any idea how many mineral collectors, >>> male and female, there >>> are worldwide? >>> Kenny >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________ >> Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page >> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tangojuli at yahoo.com Sat Jul 16 19:55:33 2005 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Sat Jul 16 19:55:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] women and geoscience-musing Message-ID: <20050717025533.5821.qmail@web60811.mail.yahoo.com> > Well, > I couldn't resist taking a second away from a boring > book on statistics (zzzzzz) to chime in on this > topic of women in geo science and museums, etc. > > Kreigh was right in quoting the forthcoming > rockhounds survey results--women are 30% of the > respondents and we can infer that to mean perhaps > 30% of those in rockhounding. (Rockhound Survey report no#1 is done and will be available as soon as Kreigh can load it to the website.) > > Women historically, both in England, America and > beyond were strongly discouraged from studying the > sciences until recently. Books are written about the > lone women scientists in the first 2/3rds of the > 20th Cent at the Ivies who went the path alone. > > Mineral collecting has traditionally been a male > pursuit for a number of social and cultural reasons. > This was also really the domain for the elites. As I > think Kreigh or Alan Goldstein pointed out to me in > my research recently, you weren't likely to have other than "gentlemen" pursuing mineral collecting in the 19thC-early 20thC. This may contribute to lower > numbers of females in sciences and being involved in > more male-dominated hobbies like the geo-hobbies. > Historically, women were discouraged from "unseemly" > pursuits, and this included the early days (19thC)of > public lectures on sciences, which were more heavily > attended by men (this is before colleges became the > sole province of "scientific" knowledge) or were > held in men's only facilities, which would have locked women out of this knowledge transfer unless they had a > father, uncle or brother to introduce them. > > Further, philosophy of science and historians of > science might tell you that that empiricism > (scientific method)has been characterized as a more > "masculine" way of knowing for various reasons I > won't go into here, and you won't find the alternative in the geo hobby unless it is the new age stuff. Perhaps the cartesian duality (stemming from the "I think, therefore I am") is a particularly male thought > process? Or maybe there is something about empiricism > that is a reflection of male thought patterns? (the > If-Then logic) > > Why are women more common in museum professions? You > hit it on the head. In many fields, such as education, when women were allowed into these fields > (19thC-20thC), their growing numbers served as a > deterent to men, and the salary levels dropped. > Salary levels are often higher in male-dominated fields (this > doesn't hold true everywhere, obviously). When a > field opens to women, and the gender balance shifts, its termed the "feminization" of the field. This almost > always leads to two unfortunate outcomes: devaluing > of the field societally (think education), and loss of pay equity relative to importance. I wonder if > museum curation/interpretation has suffered a similar fate? > > People choose their professions often based on what > they've been exposed to. So, historically, women > were more sheltered, didn't have a "take your daughter to work day" until the 1980s, and so, for example, teachers, nurses and doctors were the professions most visible to women and in the 1960s and 1970s women flocked to the first two fields (aided by government aid programs). There are exceptions to everything, obviously, these are broad trends. > > Sorry mick--I know you were quoting that european > research > "Research in Europe shows that the collecting > instinct > has a gender bias: men tend to collect for > systematics > (science if you like) and women tend to > collect for souvenirs (art) - "the tears of things." > --but I probably have to take issue with the clear value judgements embedded in those statements:). On > the surface they may seem to gel with our observation, and we certainly know exceptions to both gendered observations, don't we? I know I get completel > unglued sometimes when I can't figure out the difference in two formulas (sillimanite and andalusite, or borax and tincalconite)and trying to organize my collection by Dana this week, and color the next, while my best friend, a highly respected leader in her geological speciality, is only interested in the "pretty" rocks I give her and couldn't give a hoot for my painstakingly thorough "scientific" mineral labels. What that statement above can be decoded into saying is that women are sentimental and emotional (collecting for soveigners) > and men's interst is more "scientific", therefore > rational. Some of our everyday observations might > enforce some of those beliefs, but I think it is > more > nuanced than that. > > As modern as we'd like to think ourselves and 21st > century society, there are still signals to the > genders about what fields they should pursue, what > is > proper for them (how many dress their male toddler > in > pink or encourage him to cry or let it out?), and > for > a few more decades probably, we will continue to see > gender disparity in many fields. > > Given the fact that our hobby is aging (average age > of > the survey respondants was in the early 50s, despite > the fact that it was delivered in a medium more > commonly used by youth), it is no wonder that it is > so > male dominated, as this is a historical legacy. As > you'll see in the survey report, we point out the > lack > of replentishment of hobbyists, and (with tongue in > cheek) ;) Maybe this is because there are fewer > females in the hobby who traditionally are the > nurturers and are more usually involved with the > youth > development activities? ;) > > But to get back to Mick's other observations, women > do > seem to be less motivated by money, and more by job > satisfaction. Men have been socialized to be the > providers of the family and may feel less free to > pursue their passion , whereas perhaps women have > less > of that pressure on them by this social expectation, > even if they are the breadwinners, may be socialized > to different values affecting choice. Additionally, > because women are the breeders, they have to take > time > away from the workforce to do so, and lose their > place > in line (seniority, currency & experience)for > promotion. Its pretty exhausting to be in a high > stress or highly competitive field if you want to > raise children, and expect to get back in after time > for child-rearing. There might be something > pragmatic > and appealing in choosing an environment that > doesn't > so stress competition (comparing say, museum > curation > or interpretation, with say, sports marketing, or > software engineering) and favors working with people > and sharing knowledge? > Finally, women are more cooperative (oddles of > scientific research to support that claim) in the > work > environment, and this might extend to hobbies as > well. > Research science and engineering are fields that are > more solitary and not exactly cooperative fields, so > maybe this also helps explain less women in the > geosciences. > > My speculation on rockhounds: > Not only is rockhounding hard physical work (think > Teresa Masters mentioned this point) and slinging a > sledge requires a certain amount of upper body > strength (and target acquisition!), but there is a > certain goal-setting, acquisitive aspect to it. It > can be a solitary pursuit, but I guess there is a > strong component of sharing and comparing and > cooperation to split a boulder on group outings. I > think the acquisitive element, or what is it that > keeps you going after the next ledge, the next > geode, > the next boulder...it's similar to a gambling type > gene (just one more...the next one will be more > beautiful...ok, just one more...) might this be more > a > male trait than a female trait? > When you get finally get access to a quarry--who the > heck leaves early unless you're fatally wounded? > (LOL!) > > There's a certain single-mindedness... > I don't have the answer to why women aren't as into > it > as men. Maybe there are hints to the puzzle in how > people get intersted in the hobby, and how they come > back to it as adults? If girls aren't introduced to > it > as children ("little girls don't play with rocks > honey, put that down") they likely won't be > interseted > as they grow up. I just know that all my female > friends and family look at my hobby and my display > cases with bewilderment, amusement or disinterest, > maybe sparking an interst in a big crystal while > some > guy friends might show some interst, but lose it if > I > don't have gold and silver (do you have gold, > silver, > diamonds?) > > my musings from bloomington > tina > > Mick wrote: > > > What are the differences, and similarities, > between > male and female > > rockhounds? And why? [flames off-list please] > > Research in Europe shows that the collecting > instinct > has a gender > bias: men > tend to collect for systematics (science if you > like) > and women tend to > collect for souvenirs (art) - "the tears of things." > Of course, museums > *should* collect for both. Could explain why > Kreigh's > wife is good at > spotting things, but isn't so interested in the > systematics of the > collection. However, it doesn't explain why women > staff dominate in > museums > (here in England anyway) and on heritage and museum > courses. Nor, when > the > contrary might therefore be expected, why natural > history museums are > yet to > get a proper grip (with a few notable exceptions) on > the cultural > (non-scientific) aspects of the subject. It's > possible > the former may > be > just be because museums don't pay much and most men > want money for > their > efforts rather than job satisfaction...? > > Mick > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From tam2819 at cox.net Sat Jul 16 20:14:21 2005 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Sat Jul 16 20:14:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] women and geoscience-musing In-Reply-To: <20050717025533.5821.qmail@web60811.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050717025533.5821.qmail@web60811.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <346201d9bd99c58b22ade7f641b7632e@cox.net> Tina, Yes to many of your points. Many in the rock and mineral clubs think it is wasted time to encourage youth. The argument being, they will discover "girls" and stop seeking rocks. Notice there was little encouragement for girls to enter this hobby/field. Others will say the young men will remember the pleasure of the field trips, the open air and mineral discovery, and after marriage will remember this as a healthy outing for their own families, then they return to the fold. I long awaited the end of the rigidity of attitude towards youth. I want to see a resurgence of rock and mineral clubs youth activities, both for girls and boys. My last comment is on the absence of minorities in the same clubs. For the most part, they have not been welcomed with open arms, males or females. Terrie From magnet at crocoite.com Sun Jul 17 01:50:42 2005 From: magnet at crocoite.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?magnet?=) Date: Sun Jul 17 01:51:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounding cartoons ? Message-ID: <20050717085042.18068.qmail@webmachine101.com> Hi J?rgen Check out the Faultline on my site - http://www.crocoite.com Regards Steve -------Original Message------- > From: Juergen Wachsmuth > Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounding cartoons ? > Sent: 15 Jul '05 21:07 > > Hello, > > for illustrating posters I am trying to find any cartoons, drawings or graphics > that have to do with rockhounding or mineral collecting. Does anyone have any > ideas or links? > > Regards, > > J?rgen Wachsmuth > Ulm - Germany From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 17 04:46:19 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Sun Jul 17 04:48:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] women and geoscience-musing References: <20050717025533.5821.qmail@web60811.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001101c58ac5$605fab00$78f1edc1@mpc1> That was a fascinating and thoughtful muse! Here's another thought: women did and were encouraged to take an active interest in natural history in the 18th and early 19th centuries. Collecting flowers, shells, minerals, etc. One - among many factors - for the decline in women in these fields was Linnaeus - he who invented the binomial system for naming animals and plants. Unfortunately he noticed that the sexual parts of flowers and some animals (especially insects I believe) were key to differentiating species. Oops. Women were not expected to go around talking of insects' genitalia and the stamens and pistils of flowers. Far too disgusting and un-ladylike. I stand by the results of research that showed the gender bias towards systematics and souvenirs among men and women, if for not other reason than to point out that neither is better than the other. I find some women object to this because they think that science is "better" than art and that therefore the above observation deingrates them and degrades their stance. Not so. We cannot survive without both. Mick From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Jul 17 05:56:25 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Jul 17 05:56:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A mine fire, a female collector (maybe, kinda) and why is it hot anyway In-Reply-To: <20050716205943.216ACA1076@marbella.infowest.com> Message-ID: Margaret, this is entrapment and consequently I cannot be prosecuted for asking: How many blonde female rock collectors would there be? Admit it, you knew that I couldn't resist... Hm, this is called fighting fire with fire, I guess (ROFL) No flame intended either. Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm Verzonden: zaterdag 16 juli 2005 23:00 Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] A mine fire, a female collector (maybe,kinda) and why is it hot anyway Hi, Kreigh (and this is certainly not meant as a "flame -- just pointing our some of the facts of life ;>}} My theory as to why female collectors are less common, is sort of like this -- Women have typically (and especially up until fairly recently) been classed as the brainless, ambitionless, "weaker sex", dainty people who are supposed to be content to stay at home and keep house, cook, wash, have kids, raise the kids, be the servant of the male, etc. etc. etc. while men "did the "work"" --!!! Rockhounding requires one to get out and use ones muscles (and minds) to find and collect (and identify) the rocks. It is only fairly recently that women started standing up for their rights and were finaly recognized to be real people who are capable of doing all sorts of things just as well as men are. (Or better! ;>}} We just haven't had a chance to catch up yet! Margaret Kreigh wrote: >...I'm more interested reasons why female collectors wouldn't be as common, or expected, as male collectors. Statistics, and my experience, show that roughly two out of three rockhounds are male; the sexes are also appear equal in ability. My wife typically finds better, and/or more unusual, specimens on a mine dump than I do. She may also enjoy collecting more than me; she has little interest in the process that puts an identified specimen into the collection. What are the differences, and similarities, between male and female rockhounds? And why? [flames off-list please] Kreigh _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Sun Jul 17 08:43:37 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Sun Jul 17 08:43:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] total number of collectors In-Reply-To: <005801c58a79$5b729900$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> References: <20050715191128.84933.qmail@web51007.mail.yahoo.com> <3f8f50dae9fbc2a615f90e55d16e70d9@lrream.com> <005801c58a79$5b729900$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <42DA7CA9.2040807@tenforward.com> Hi Alan, Thanks for your post. It makes sense and darn it, I'm frustrated I didn't see the obvious before. All the very best, John Alan Goldstein wrote: > I agree that determining the number of rockhounds is difficult to > ascertain without help from either a national marketing effort > (incredibly expensive) or a national census survey question. > > I attended a museum conference last month and the guest speaker was a > demographic statistician. He was very good at converting mindboggling > complex data into interesting facts. Relating to the topic at hand, > there is a general discussion among virtually all geology clubs > lamenting the lack of youth. This connects with the lamentation of > state governments concerning the "brain-drain" -- young people leaving > the state after college and getting jobs elsewhere. The problem is > that almost all states have the same situation! How can this be so? > Simple actually... after the "baby boom" [1946-64] came the "baby bust > [1965 - ~1980]." Fewer babies mean fewer rockhounds, engineers, > scientists, etc. This means equivalent vast number of youth of the > 50's & 60's were NEVER BORN in the 80's and 90's! Someone who was > never born can not join a rock club. > > You want to hear something really crazy? China is going to be hurting > big time in about 25 years. Four grandparents, two parents, one > child... how would you like an economy that one worker is supporting > up to six retired adults? Better get you Chinese minerals now, because > in 25 years, they won't have enough miners! On a positive note, we may > be able to reopen the Illinois - Kentucky fluorspar district because > the U.S. (and any immigrant nation) will be in pretty good shape > economically -- according to the demogaphic statistician! > > Alan > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 1:11 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] total number of collectors > > >> This won't work, and neither would looking at the numbers of >> subscribers to the magazines. Over the years I've developed the >> feeling that most collectors do not belong to clubs and do not >> subscribe to magazines. I subscribe to five mineral magazines, so any >> counting through subscriptions will count me five times. That might >> be looked on as canceling out five non-subcribers, but any such >> "deduction" is of course completely inaccurate and misleading. >> >> Similarly, I belong to three organizations, four if you count AMS. >> >> This question of how many mineral/gem/lapidary/rock collectors there >> are pops up in various forums off and on and won't be answered >> without some money and a scientific approach to produce a "created" >> "guesstimate" like the government and watch dog bodies love to do. >> Any method it is done, because of the duplications of memberships, >> subscriptions, show attendance, etc., the resultant number will >> always be suspect, it can only be a "best guess" type of answer. >> >> The latest publication statement in The Min. Rec. has 5,383 paid >> subscriptions. Does that mean there are only 5,383 mineral >> collectors? Oops, can't be, many of those subscriptions go to >> libraries and universities. Rocks & Minerals show 5,590 copies >> distributed each month. >> >> These numbers mean nothing useful (except that subscription rates are >> way down from a few years ago for the MR-in 1995 MR had 6,504 >> subscribers; and up for R&M- 4,230 in 1995 (7,268 in 1971)). Any >> reasonable guess is that there are a lot more mineral collectors in >> the USA than the current subscriber numbers added together. >> >> Regards, >> >> Lanny >> >> >> On Jul 15, 2005, at 12:11 PM, Jim Daly wrote: >> >>> That would be really tough to estimate. Perhaps if you >>> could get the memberships of every mineral club in the >>> world and add them up... >>> Of course, there are quite a few collectors that >>> belong to more than one club, but then there are some >>> that do not belong to any club, so they may cancel >>> out. >>> You would have to add every club, not just national >>> federations. There are large clubs that aren't >>> affiliated with any federation. >>> Jim Daly >>> >>> >>> --- Kenny Gay wrote: >>> >>>> I like the thread about feminine collections. It got >>>> me thinking, does >>>> anyone have any idea how many mineral collectors, >>>> male and female, there >>>> are worldwide? >>>> Kenny >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>>> Subscription Services: >>>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________ >>> Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page >>> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From kadok at infowest.com Sun Jul 17 11:15:49 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sun Jul 17 11:16:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A mine fire, a female collector (maybe, kinda) and why is it hot anyway In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050717181540.0059FA106C@marbella.infowest.com> I'm not sure I quite understand your point, (are you thinking of the "dumb blonde jokes??) but my answer would be -- As many blond females who are interested in rock collecting and who are able to get out there to do it! Since I have lived in Utah the last 10 years, and for part of the year for the last 30 years, I have become quite familiar with the Mormon religious philosophy which considers women as simply chattels. I realize it isn't this way everywhere, certainly wasn't so in Califormia, where they are much more enlightened! (while Utah is still back in the 19th century). So I guess you could say I am sort of sensitized to the subject. Margaret Margaret, this is entrapment and consequently I cannot be prosecuted for asking: How many blonde female rock collectors would there be? Admit it, you knew that I couldn't resist... Hm, this is called fighting fire with fire, I guess (ROFL) No flame intended either. Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm Verzonden: zaterdag 16 juli 2005 23:00 Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] A mine fire, a female collector (maybe,kinda) and why is it hot anyway Hi, Kreigh (and this is certainly not meant as a "flame -- just pointing our some of the facts of life ;>}} My theory as to why female collectors are less common, is sort of like this -- Women have typically (and especially up until fairly recently) been classed as the brainless, ambitionless, "weaker sex", dainty people who are supposed to be content to stay at home and keep house, cook, wash, have kids, raise the kids, be the servant of the male, etc. etc. etc. while men "did the "work"" --!!! Rockhounding requires one to get out and use ones muscles (and minds) to find and collect (and identify) the rocks. It is only fairly recently that women started standing up for their rights and were finaly recognized to be real people who are capable of doing all sorts of things just as well as men are. (Or better! ;>}} We just haven't had a chance to catch up yet! Margaret Kreigh wrote: >...I'm more interested reasons why female collectors wouldn't be as common, or expected, as male collectors. Statistics, and my experience, show that roughly two out of three rockhounds are male; the sexes are also appear equal in ability. My wife typically finds better, and/or more unusual, specimens on a mine dump than I do. She may also enjoy collecting more than me; she has little interest in the process that puts an identified specimen into the collection. What are the differences, and similarities, between male and female rockhounds? And why? [flames off-list please] Kreigh _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jaybates at rcn.com Sun Jul 17 11:33:26 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sun Jul 17 11:31:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire References: Message-ID: <000701c58afe$061b35e0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Maybe the "hot spot" is not so mysterious after all? http://www.independent.com/living/history927.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 11:43 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire > >in a nifty little sulfurous mushroom cloud in the lab. Another batch > >ignited in my hand while carrying it to the microscopy lab, and I had to > >drench the sample in the nearest drinking fountain. > > Masses of fine hair like millerite may even flash-burn in a split second > like magnesium sponge. Wouldn't the sulfur dioxide be a dead give-away? > > Axel > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Jul 17 11:45:25 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Jul 17 11:45:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds -- Who Are We? Survey Results Message-ID: <42DAA73D.4020@Tomaszewski.net> This survey began as a project to discover more about who Rockhounds are, and it has attracted the interest of club officials and members worldwide who are worried about declining membership and the future of our hobby. It is our hope that by learning more about current Rockhounds we will be better able to reach out to the next generation(s) to keep the hobby alive. The Survey Results are in. Tina and I are sorry it took so long, but this was done as a hobby project. You may download or view the results as a 459K PDF file at http://www.Tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Minerals/RockhoundsReport.v.3.pdf depending on how your browser is configured. Kreigh P.S., If you belong to a Club please share this information with your Club's Newsletter Editor (or announce it at your next meeting) so that everyone in your Club will have an opportunity to learn of the results. Thanks! From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sun Jul 17 12:07:14 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sun Jul 17 12:07:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds -- Who Are We? Survey Results In-Reply-To: <42DAA73D.4020@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <200507171907.j6HJ7FA1012693@outmx005.isp.belgacom.be> Dear Tina and Kreigh, I just had quick look at your document, and I must say that you did a more than splendid job ! Although I ran through it only very diagonally yet, I saw that you have shaded and relativated the data in the way it should, with the necessary precautions to avoid any biased interpretation. And even the presentation is just splendid ! I congratulate you very sincerely with the quality of this document, and I am grateful for the effort you both have put into it. I will ask our webmaster to link to the document as a hot topic. Best regards, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kreigh Tomaszewski Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 8:45 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Cc: MineralCollecting@yahoogroups.com; Lapidary Arts and Faceters Digest; rocksandfossils@yahoogroups.com; rockhounds@yahoogroups.com; LapidaryList@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds -- Who Are We? Survey Results This survey began as a project to discover more about who Rockhounds are, and it has attracted the interest of club officials and members worldwide who are worried about declining membership and the future of our hobby. It is our hope that by learning more about current Rockhounds we will be better able to reach out to the next generation(s) to keep the hobby alive. The Survey Results are in. Tina and I are sorry it took so long, but this was done as a hobby project. You may download or view the results as a 459K PDF file at http://www.Tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Minerals/RockhoundsReport.v.3.pdf depending on how your browser is configured. Kreigh P.S., If you belong to a Club please share this information with your Club's Newsletter Editor (or announce it at your next meeting) so that everyone in your Club will have an opportunity to learn of the results. Thanks! _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From dguin at earthlink.net Sun Jul 17 12:56:06 2005 From: dguin at earthlink.net (Dave Guin) Date: Sun Jul 17 12:56:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds -- Who Are We? Survey Results In-Reply-To: <42DAA73D.4020@Tomaszewski.net> References: <42DAA73D.4020@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <42DAB7D6.70603@earthlink.net> Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >This survey began as a project to discover more about who Rockhounds >are, > Nicely done. Thanks and congratulations to both Tina and yourself. Peace, dave From kahako at verizon.net Sun Jul 17 13:19:39 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Jul 17 13:19:39 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds -- Who Are We? Survey Results In-Reply-To: <42DAA73D.4020@Tomaszewski.net> References: <42DAA73D.4020@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050717101820.03e52240@incoming.verizon.net> Absolutely wonderful job, Tina and Kreigh. Very professional. Superb! Thank you! Kitty From bova at mindspring.com Sun Jul 17 13:54:41 2005 From: bova at mindspring.com (Carol J. Bova) Date: Sun Jul 17 13:54:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds -- Who Are We? Survey Results In-Reply-To: <42DAA73D.4020@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Tina and Kreigh, Congratulations! Beautiful job!! Carol On Sunday, July 17, 2005, at 02:45 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > This survey began as a project to discover more about who Rockhounds > are, and it has attracted the interest of club officials and members > worldwide who are worried about declining membership and the future of > our hobby. It is our hope that by learning more about current > Rockhounds > we will be better able to reach out to the next generation(s) to keep > the hobby alive. From tam2819 at cox.net Sun Jul 17 14:05:28 2005 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Sun Jul 17 14:05:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds -- Who Are We? Survey Results In-Reply-To: <42DAA73D.4020@Tomaszewski.net> References: <42DAA73D.4020@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <4e0701f95fcd71420e25472f006544de@cox.net> Oh my goodness, Tina and Kreigh, what a wonderful effort on your part. Thank you so very much for sharing this all with the list. I am forwarding it to CFMS, perhaps someone can do that to AFMS and all the regional Federations. Don't stop there, LJ, Rock and Gem, University and College Earth Sciences Studies. This is a wonderful basis for expansion of Earth Sciences and adjunct studies. Magnet and Middle Schools also. My deepest thanks for all your efforts. Terrie From althea at alfalfapress.com Sun Jul 17 14:46:56 2005 From: althea at alfalfapress.com (Althea Turner) Date: Sun Jul 17 14:42:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free digging areas in central Oregon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4B8B7E6D-F70C-11D9-BC7D-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Hello, I am new to your group and a return to the hobby after *mumble*mumble* years. I am taking my two kids to central Oregon on their first rockhounding trip. I'd very much appreciate any information on free/ public digging areas as I'm a grad student on a grad student budget. :D Also any tips for someone camping/ traveling in that area with 9&11 year olds. I think I was the same age the last time I was in that area. Thank you very much!! Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com Reunite Pangaea! It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people. - Giordano Bruno Oh, good. Symbols on the floor. That always goes well. - Gunn From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Sun Jul 17 14:49:58 2005 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Wayne Rasmussen) Date: Sun Jul 17 14:50:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds -- Who Are We? Survey Results References: <42DAA73D.4020@Tomaszewski.net> <4e0701f95fcd71420e25472f006544de@cox.net> Message-ID: <007201c58b19$7bda6240$645fe842@Titans> What a complete fantastic professional job you two have done, your names and works are going down in History, thank you for all your work and brilliant thoughts that went into this. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teresa Masters" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 3:05 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds -- Who Are We? Survey Results > Oh my goodness, Tina and Kreigh, what a wonderful effort on your part. > Thank you so very much for sharing this all with the list. > > I am forwarding it to CFMS, perhaps someone can do that to AFMS and all > the regional Federations. > > Don't stop there, LJ, Rock and Gem, University and College Earth Sciences > Studies. This is a wonderful basis for expansion of Earth Sciences and > adjunct studies. > > Magnet and Middle Schools also. > > My deepest thanks for all your efforts. > Terrie > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From CRAZYDOVE at aol.com Sun Jul 17 15:00:37 2005 From: CRAZYDOVE at aol.com (CRAZYDOVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Jul 17 15:00:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds -- Who Are We? Survey Results Message-ID: <75.495b158d.300c2f05@aol.com> Bravo for a really professional, attractive to the eye, job! This definately should be published in a mineral journal/magazine! Excellant, thank you for your time and wonderful effort!! Jackie --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 17 15:03:01 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Sun Jul 17 15:03:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds -- Who Are We? Survey Results References: <42DAA73D.4020@Tomaszewski.net> <42DAB7D6.70603@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <001101c58b1b$4d83ac60$78f1edc1@mpc1> > Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > >>This survey began as a project to discover more about who Rockhounds >>are, An excellent piece of work. Congratulations. I'll pass it around. I suppose there's no problem quoting from it? Well done. Mick From jaybates at rcn.com Sun Jul 17 17:00:49 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sun Jul 17 16:58:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free digging areas in central Oregon References: <4B8B7E6D-F70C-11D9-BC7D-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Message-ID: <000501c58b2b$c20529a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> You can get some free maps at the rockshop in Prineville if you are only making one trip. You might also consider going to the Pow Wow in Madras. If you are likely to make other trips I would highly recommend buying Tim Fisher's CD for $35 at http://orerockon.com/ore_rock.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Althea Turner" To: Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 2:46 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Free digging areas in central Oregon > Hello, > > I am new to your group and a return to the hobby after *mumble*mumble* > years. I am taking my two kids to central Oregon on their first > rockhounding trip. I'd very much appreciate any information on free/ > public digging areas as I'm a grad student on a grad student budget. > :D Also any tips for someone camping/ traveling in that area with 9&11 > year olds. I think I was the same age the last time I was in that > area. Thank you very much!! > > Althea Turner > *** althea@alfalfapress.com > *** http://www.alfalfapress.com > > Reunite Pangaea! > > It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the > masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth > does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the > people. > - Giordano Bruno > > Oh, good. Symbols on the floor. That always goes well. > - Gunn > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From MCGINNISG at aol.com Sun Jul 17 18:37:41 2005 From: MCGINNISG at aol.com (MCGINNISG@aol.com) Date: Sun Jul 17 18:37:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Terminology Question??? Message-ID: <1ed.3ff9d340.300c61e5@aol.com> Is there a special name for elbaite crystals with schorl centers? Timm --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Jul 17 20:04:29 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Jul 17 20:03:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds -- Who Are We? Survey Results References: <42DAA73D.4020@Tomaszewski.net> <42DAB7D6.70603@earthlink.net> <001101c58b1b$4d83ac60$78f1edc1@mpc1> Message-ID: <42DB1BF4.4266@Tomaszewski.net> Mick Cooper wrote: > > > Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > >>This survey began as a project to discover more about who Rockhounds > >>are, > > An excellent piece of work. Congratulations. I'll pass it around. I suppose > there's no problem quoting from it? > > Well done. > > Mick Mick, Tina and I expect proper attribution for fair use (see the footnote on the last page), but our hope was that the information would be widely shared to support our shared hobby. Quote away... Kreigh From Pjmodreski at att.net Sun Jul 17 22:31:17 2005 From: Pjmodreski at att.net (Pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Sun Jul 17 22:31:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Terminology Question??? Message-ID: <071820050531.9989.42DB3EA500003F1A00002705216038311607059C0A9D0B010306AF@att.net> No special name for this that I ever heard of. There's a lot of zoning in all kinds of tourmaline, and I wouldn't be surprised to see something like this. Pete -------------- Original message from MCGINNISG@aol.com: -------------- > Is there a special name for elbaite crystals with schorl centers? > Timm > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Sun Jul 17 11:23:57 2005 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Sun Jul 17 23:36:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] women and geoscience-musing References: <20050717025533.5821.qmail@web60811.mail.yahoo.com> <001101c58ac5$605fab00$78f1edc1@mpc1> Message-ID: <000001c58b62$faaee930$074227c4@privatehome> Hi List, Latching on to a complete different type of reasoning in this discussion. Some years ago, two Russian (male) geologists visited South Africa. During their period over here, they also delivered a talk on "Geology in Russia" at the auditorium of the Council of Geoscience here in Pretoria. One interesting fact they mentioned was that appartently Russia has the highest number of feamale geologists (per capita) in the world and the main reason given for this situation was as follows:- These female Ruissian geologists would tend to marry their male geologist friends for the simple reason of getting out into the countryside during the time they do field work instead of having to live in standardised, cramped living quarters in the large cities. (This may of course be an oversimplification). Regards, Horst ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mick Cooper" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 1:46 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] women and geoscience-musing > That was a fascinating and thoughtful muse! Here's another thought: women > did and were encouraged to take an active interest in natural history in > the 18th and early 19th centuries. Collecting flowers, shells, minerals, > etc. One - among many factors - for the decline in women in these fields > was Linnaeus - he who invented the binomial system for naming animals and > plants. Unfortunately he noticed that the sexual parts of flowers and some > animals (especially insects I believe) were key to differentiating > species. Oops. Women were not expected to go around talking of insects' > genitalia and the stamens and pistils of flowers. Far too disgusting and > un-ladylike. > > I stand by the results of research that showed the gender bias towards > systematics and souvenirs among men and women, if for not other reason > than to point out that neither is better than the other. I find some women > object to this because they think that science is "better" than art and > that therefore the above observation deingrates them and degrades their > stance. Not so. We cannot survive without both. > > Mick > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockcurrier at cs.com Mon Jul 18 00:37:23 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Mon Jul 18 00:31:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bahia Suggestions References: <200507170012.j6H0CPPI030396@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <00c901c58b6b$8a110560$2eeaa5d8@rock5> Some suggestions on Bahia for Scot: You can most likely find a decent map of Salvador when you get to Salvador. There will probably be a simple tourist map available right in your hotel and if you want a better one you could visit a book store and certainly they would have all the maps you might desire. If you want to visit some of the areas of mineralogical interest, you should also get a road map of Bahia state. The place where much of the rutile quartz, especially the good rutile in quartz is Ibitiara and near the little village of Remedios sp? which is quite near. To find the guys selling the quartz, you just have to start asking around town (Ibitiara and Remedos) to find some people with material. It is about 200 miles west of Salvador. A good two day trip might be to rent a car and leisurely drive toward Ibitiara and spend the night in Lensois (bed sheets) an old mining camp whose tents were often made from bed sheets, and now tourist destination with a petty stream (river) running over granite with many beautiful little waterfalls and granite pools to swim in. From there it is a short drive to Ibitiara. There are other towns where you can buy quartz with rutile and other inclusions, but a lot depends on the amount of time you have to spend running around and how much you want to buy. You can also head somewhat southwest from Salvador and visit Brumado which is home of a large magnesite mine that produces occasionally fine specimens of magnesite, uvite tourmaline, as well as a range of other interesting specimens. However unless you have special permission from the mine itself, it is not likely that you will be able to collect there, and the mine really doesn't like the miners to collect and sell specimens, but of course they do. If you do there you will need to keep a low profile and ask around discretely to find the people selling the specimens. You should have someone with you who speaks Portuguese, it will certainly make your trip more worthwhile. There used to be a road south from Ibitiara to Brumado but it was a terrible road and though we did manage it in a regular car, it was touch and go if we would make it or not. Perhaps, the road is much better today than in the 1980s. I hope this may be of some help to you. Rock From magnet at crocoite.com Mon Jul 18 02:27:52 2005 From: magnet at crocoite.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?magnet?=) Date: Mon Jul 18 02:28:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Micro Problems... Message-ID: <20050718092752.9198.qmail@webmachine101.com> Hi all I've been experiencing some problems with my microscope in recent times. It's nearly 15 years old and never been touched. The view through the right eye piece has been a bit blurry. I started off my troubleshooting with cleaning the right eye piece. No change! Thinking it might be my eyes, I looked through the right hand eye piece with my left eye. No change!! So I swapped the eye pieces over. No change!!! The problem must be in the object. So I removed the head from the base and turned it over. Sure enough, there was what appeared to be crazing in the glass, and it was inside! As a last resort, I took my scope into our local optics place (Walch Optics in Hobart) for cleaning and repair. I rang today to see if it was ready to be picked up. The answer was yes. The girl on the phone started to tell me what had been done, disassemble, clean, adjust...then she cracked up laughing. Apparently, the cleaning had included the removal of oil (which was causing the "crazing") and a dead spider. Somehow the spider had got into my microscope, and walked the oil all over the glass! It's costing me around $200 for the work, but when I pick it up tomorrow, it will be like having a new microscope all over again! Regards Steve From tangojuli at yahoo.com Mon Jul 18 05:45:26 2005 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Mon Jul 18 05:45:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Survey notes In-Reply-To: <200507180102.j6I10eBf025391@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20050718124526.31857.qmail@web60823.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks everyone for the encouraging feedback on the survey. As you will note on the last page in the footnotes, the Rockhounds list was instrumental in refining the instrument and I feel it was a community project. (also--apparently, the last line of text got cut off and I will fix it tonite and make the clean version available.) There is a lot of data that was collected that will shed more light on questions you have asked (who is more willing to travel to collect, go to shows or go to symposiums; how did the women get into the hobby vs the men), but it takes a long time to analyze the data accurately. Because of the survey engine I used to conduct the survey, there were a few problems with recoding the data; this took a while to fix. If anyone decides to do a survey like this, online, in the future, please don't hesitate to contact me for pointers. It is my hope to work on an article for publication from the data, and put out another report with just the raw descriptive stats. There are at least 20 questions I haven't even begun to process yet (how many clubs do you belong to? What should clubs do to promote themselves? etc) Thanks again & Keep the feedback and ideas coming! tina __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From tim at orerockon.com Mon Jul 18 05:46:22 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Jul 18 05:46:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free digging areas in central Oregon In-Reply-To: <000501c58b2b$c20529a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> References: <4B8B7E6D-F70C-11D9-BC7D-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> <000501c58b2b$c20529a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050718054404.024f92f8@mail.spiritone.com> No, I don't kick anything back to Jay! :)) Seriously though, of all the rockhounding "Meccas", central OR is #1 in my book, and is also the least documented, in terms of published, accurate information. For small children, I would recommend Richardson's; at 75 cents/lb., the blue bed is the best bargain in town... At 05:00 PM 7/17/2005, you wrote: >You can get some free maps at the rockshop in Prineville if you are only >making one trip. You might also consider going to the Pow Wow in Madras. If >you are likely to make other trips I would highly recommend buying Tim >Fisher's CD for $35 at http://orerockon.com/ore_rock.htm Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jul 18 05:47:28 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jul 18 05:47:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds -- Who Are We? Survey Results In-Reply-To: <42DAA73D.4020@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: In one word: WOW!!! Very professional, congratulations. Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski Verzonden: zondag 17 juli 2005 20:45 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors CC: MineralCollecting@yahoogroups.com; Lapidary Arts and Faceters Digest; rocksandfossils@yahoogroups.com; rockhounds@yahoogroups.com; LapidaryList@yahoogroups.com Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds -- Who Are We? Survey Results This survey began as a project to discover more about who Rockhounds are, and it has attracted the interest of club officials and members worldwide who are worried about declining membership and the future of our hobby. It is our hope that by learning more about current Rockhounds we will be better able to reach out to the next generation(s) to keep the hobby alive. The Survey Results are in. Tina and I are sorry it took so long, but this was done as a hobby project. You may download or view the results as a 459K PDF file at http://www.Tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Minerals/RockhoundsReport.v.3.pdf depending on how your browser is configured. Kreigh P.S., If you belong to a Club please share this information with your Club's Newsletter Editor (or announce it at your next meeting) so that everyone in your Club will have an opportunity to learn of the results. Thanks! _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tangojuli at yahoo.com Mon Jul 18 05:49:12 2005 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Mon Jul 18 05:49:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] tina's essay In-Reply-To: <200507180102.j6I10eBf025391@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20050718124912.32285.qmail@web60823.mail.yahoo.com> Me Bad. I apologize to all for not being more concise in my essay yesterday on women and the hobby/science/field/universe, etc. That verbosity is likely a product of being locked up with statistics for 3 days and it was overkill! Thanks for not flaming me! tina __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jul 18 05:56:51 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jul 18 05:56:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A mine fire, a female collector (maybe, kinda) and why is it hot anyway In-Reply-To: <20050717181540.0059FA106C@marbella.infowest.com> Message-ID: >I'm not sure I quite understand your point, (are you thinking of the "dumb >blonde jokes??) Yeusss! >Since I have lived in Utah the last 10 years, and for part of the year for >the last 30 years, I have become quite familiar with the Mormon religious >philosophy which considers women as simply chattels. Most religious philosophies make that mistake. Religion is by men for men, always has been... >I realize it isn't this way everywhere, certainly wasn't so in Califormia, >where they are much more enlightened! (while Utah is still back in the 19th >century). So I guess you could say I am sort of sensitized to the subject. Apparently ;-))) Don't worry, I have some female colleagues and I appreciate them more than some of my male colleagues. Axel From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Mon Jul 18 05:57:34 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Mon Jul 18 05:57:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A mine fire, a female collector (maybe, kinda) and why is it hot anyway In-Reply-To: <20050717181540.0059FA106C@marbella.infowest.com> Message-ID: Margaret, I am surprised at your display of ignorance of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. If you feel this hatred for the "Mormons" you should do one of 2 things: learn more about the actual teachings and depend less on hearsay, or move back to the California and the Govenator. Please refrain from flaming any religion on this list. Axel's post was obviouslt in jest only. BTW, are you blonde? Glenn Wimpee >From: "Margaret Malm" <kadok@infowest.com> > > >I'm not sure I quite understand your point, (are you thinking of the "dumb >blonde jokes??) but my answer would be -- >As many blond females who are interested in rock collecting and who are able >to get out there to do it! > >Since I have lived in Utah the last 10 years, and for part of the year for >the last 30 years, I have become quite familiar with the Mormon religious >philosophy which considers women as simply chattels. >I realize it isn't this way everywhere, certainly wasn't so in Califormia, >where they are much more enlightened! (while Utah is still back in the 19th >century). So I guess you could say I am sort of sensitized to the subject. > >Margaret > >Margaret, this is entrapment and consequently I cannot be prosecuted for >asking: How many blonde female rock collectors would there be? > >Admit it, you knew that I couldn't resist... > >Hm, this is called fighting fire with fire, I guess (ROFL) >No flame intended either. > >Axel ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Ready for kickoff? Sign up for Fox Fantasy Football powered by MSN. FREE to play! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From libawc at emory.edu Mon Jul 18 06:50:01 2005 From: libawc at emory.edu (Anita Westlake) Date: Mon Jul 18 06:48:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Absence of Minorities? In-Reply-To: <346201d9bd99c58b22ade7f641b7632e@cox.net> Message-ID: <004501c58b9f$9af055f0$14bf8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> I'd like to chime in on the minority issue. We've had only 1 or 2 African American visitors to our club meetings in the past (and we are a huge club: 600 members). I've often wondered why this hobby seems to be populated by white people for the most part. I don't think it's because we haven't welcomed others with open arms. We've gone out of our way to be welcoming (in fact, more so). So what's the problem? Is a cultural thing? Is the collecting urge limited to affluent whites with time and money on their hands? I don't know. But I don't think it's because we're not welcoming. Not enough African-Americans come to the meetings to be welcomed in the first place! Plus, you don't see African-Americans at gem shows either. What's up with that? Anita -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Teresa Masters Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 10:14 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] women and geoscience-musing Tina, Yes to many of your points. Many in the rock and mineral clubs think it is wasted time to encourage youth. The argument being, they will discover "girls" and stop seeking rocks. Notice there was little encouragement for girls to enter this hobby/field. Others will say the young men will remember the pleasure of the field trips, the open air and mineral discovery, and after marriage will remember this as a healthy outing for their own families, then they return to the fold. I long awaited the end of the rigidity of attitude towards youth. I want to see a resurgence of rock and mineral clubs youth activities, both for girls and boys. My last comment is on the absence of minorities in the same clubs. For the most part, they have not been welcomed with open arms, males or females. Terrie _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kpduties8 at aol.com Mon Jul 18 08:07:48 2005 From: Kpduties8 at aol.com (Kpduties8@aol.com) Date: Mon Jul 18 08:07:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A mine fire, a female collector (maybe, kinda) and why is i Message-ID: <1ee.3fd14164.300d1fc4@aol.com> Interesting comment about Utah. I have lived here for 50+ years and Experience Utah and the Mormons in a very positive manner, including their respect for families. Can't quite get the correlation between dumb blondes and Mormons. I would say you are not enlightened, and not well traveled. Utah is a great place to collect rocks, wouldn't ya say? No matter what your hair color! Too hot right now. Wait until fall. Kathy In a message dated 7/17/2005 7:02:42 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com writes: I'm not sure I quite understand your point, (are you thinking of the "dumb blonde jokes??) but my answer would be -- As many blond females who are interested in rock collecting and who are able to get out there to do it! Since I have lived in Utah the last 10 years, and for part of the year for the last 30 years, I have become quite familiar with the Mormon religious philosophy which considers women as simply chattels. I realize it isn't this way everywhere, certainly wasn't so in Califormia, where they are much more enlightened! (while Utah is still back in the 19th century). So I guess you could say I am sort of sensitized to the subject. Margaret --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com Mon Jul 18 08:28:41 2005 From: mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com (mp44sturm-rocks@yahoo.com) Date: Mon Jul 18 08:28:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A mine fire, a female collector (maybe, kinda) and why is i In-Reply-To: <1ee.3fd14164.300d1fc4@aol.com> Message-ID: <20050718152841.86499.qmail@web34202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Please, no flame wars! Sandra Gee, Houston, TX --- Kpduties8@aol.com wrote: > > Interesting comment about Utah. I have lived here > for 50+ years and > Experience Utah and the Mormons in a very positive > manner, including their respect > for families. Can't quite get the correlation > between dumb blondes and > Mormons. > > I would say you are not enlightened, and not well > traveled. > > Utah is a great place to collect rocks, wouldn't ya > say? No matter what > your hair color! Too hot right now. Wait until > fall. > > Kathy > > In a message dated 7/17/2005 7:02:42 P.M. Mountain > Standard Time, > rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com writes: > > > I'm not sure I quite understand your point, (are > you thinking of the "dumb > blonde jokes??) but my answer would be -- > As many blond females who are interested in rock > collecting and who are able > to get out there to do it! > > Since I have lived in Utah the last 10 years, and > for part of the year for > the last 30 years, I have become quite familiar with > the Mormon religious > philosophy which considers women as simply chattels. > > I realize it isn't this way everywhere, certainly > wasn't so in Califormia, > where they are much more enlightened! (while Utah > is still back in the 19th > century). So I guess you could say I am sort of > sensitized to the subject. > > Margaret > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com Mon Jul 18 08:36:23 2005 From: mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com (mp44sturm-rocks@yahoo.com) Date: Mon Jul 18 08:36:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhound Survey-Problems with Download In-Reply-To: <20050717025533.5821.qmail@web60811.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050718153623.94248.qmail@web34205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I've tried downloading the survey report three times, once from the list and twice from http://www.Tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Minerals/RockhoundsReport.v.3.pdf I end up with 7 pages. The last sentence of the page 7 that I have reads: "An informational club website is equivalent to an ad in the telephone directory for the" and just stops there. Am I missin a page 8? Sandra Gee, Houston, TX From afox at drizzle.com Mon Jul 18 08:27:33 2005 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Mon Jul 18 08:46:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] A mine fire, a female collector (maybe, kinda) and why is i In-Reply-To: <1ee.3fd14164.300d1fc4@aol.com> Message-ID: Just trying to stay ahead here, but this thread has the potential to start a flame war (no pun intended). Can we tone it down a bit? Aaron -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com Mon Jul 18 09:30:58 2005 From: mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com (mp44sturm-rocks@yahoo.com) Date: Mon Jul 18 09:31:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Introduction In-Reply-To: <20050718153623.94248.qmail@web34205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050718163058.65496.qmail@web34207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello Everyone, I've been lurking around on this list for a while and I guess that it's time to introduce myself. I guess that I am one of the one third rockhounds that are female. I got interested in rocks somehow in the 5th grade to the point that I ordered a paperback book on rocks and minerals from the paperback book order forms I'd get in class. In the 6th-8th grade (1973-76) , a junior high school teacher, Mrs. Franklin, was the faculty sponsor for the school's lapidary club. I was quite active in the club and would come with some other students before school to learn how to cut shapes from the cut slabs of rock, make cabachons to put in settings. The only school field trips that we made were to local Houston area rock and lapidary shops. (I wouldn't blame her for wanting to tote 20 hammer and chisel wielding preadolescents to an outdoor site!) There was not such a group in senior high school. I had interests in music, art and life sciences I pursued in high school and eventually became a physician. I am now a part time solo private practice psychiatrist in Houston, TX and a full time mother of one precocious 8 year old daughter. I got back into rocks Fall 2004 after helping the 6th grade teacher at my daughter's private school put together some mineral identification kits for a unit on geoscience. The trip to the local Jeannie's Rock Shop reignited my interest again. As a result, I've joined a local mineral society (HAMS) and have gone to a couple of meetings. I find that often, I am one of the youngest members at meetings and one of the few women at the meetings. Almost all of the other women are there because the spouse is there. I do miss having spousal support for my interest in rocks and minerals. He gave me a somewhat bewildered stare when he handed me the copy of an old Sinkankas mineralogy textbook that he had found in a box of books that he had ordered. Though it is with money I earn myself to buy specimens, I still get these stares from the husband when he sees a box in the mail addressed to me. As my daughter has watched my collection grow, she has a little interest in rocks too. I've taken her with me to a few local shows. I have yet to go out and actually hunt around for rocks and minerals. I've gotten to know the mother (and "retired" research biochemist") of one of my daughter's friends who likes collecting some shells and fossils and some rocks. My upper body strength weakness and autoimmune arthritis keep me from being really eager about going into "the field". However we moms have talked about maybe putting together a small trip in the fall, "just us girls", to look for fossils along the Colorado River just west of Houston. I collect mineral specimens mostly for the aesthetic quality of the minerals. Color, crystal shapes, claritiy and unusual color combinations are what I am mainly attracted to. I have tried very hard to limit my acquisition of minerals to ones that I have already read about to keep my "start up" expenses at bay. I am starting to develop an appreciation for specimen locality in the course of my self studying. I "dote" over my specimens by making Sculpey Clay bases for them, buying black marble flooring tiles and smashing the tiles into smaller pieces to make display shelves for the specimens. I've got minerals displayed under the glass of collection end tables and in a few free standing display cases. After reading a number of the articles on John Betts' website, I have dutifully labelled all my specimens, used business card organizer pages to keep all of the labels and use a spread sheet program to keep track of information on each specimen that I have. I've even kept all of the receipts too. I look forward to reading on the boards and learning as much as I can from the other members here. Regards, Sandra Gee, Houston, TX From Kenny.Gay at ncmail.net Mon Jul 18 10:20:41 2005 From: Kenny.Gay at ncmail.net (Kenny Gay) Date: Mon Jul 18 10:20:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Spruce Pine Show Message-ID: <42DBE4E9.3070803@ncmail.net> Thanks for the comments regarding the number of mineral collectors. I realize that an accurate count is almost impossible. Now: Are there any list members attending the Spruce Pine Show in western North Carolina? The show is as always the first weekend in August, 5th, 6th & 7th. It would be nice to meet some list members if anyone is going. I'll be there for the weekend, so just let me know. Kenny NCGS Raleigh, NC From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jul 18 10:42:46 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jul 18 10:42:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A mine fire, a female collector (maybe, kinda) and why is i In-Reply-To: <1ee.3fd14164.300d1fc4@aol.com> Message-ID: >Utah is a great place to collect rocks, wouldn't ya say? No matter what >your hair color! Would flesh-color be acceptable? I'm as good as bald ;-)))) And yes... quite some specimens from my fluorescent collection have Utah on the label. Axel From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jul 18 10:52:15 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jul 18 10:51:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A mine fire, a female collector (maybe, kinda) and why is i In-Reply-To: <1ee.3fd14164.300d1fc4@aol.com> Message-ID: >Can't quite get the correlation between dumb blondes and >Mormons. Probably a spelling error, Kathy. Guys who make jokes about dumb blondes are morons, not Mormons. My message was indeed intended as "in jest". Axel From silverado at frontiernet.net Mon Jul 18 10:07:49 2005 From: silverado at frontiernet.net (Gail) Date: Mon Jul 18 11:07:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A mine fire, a female collector (maybe, kinda) and why is i References: Message-ID: <001301c58bbb$3bc21ed0$3fcb3243@gail7diqufk9xy> Thank you! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 1:52 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] A mine fire, a female collector (maybe,kinda) and why is i > >Can't quite get the correlation between dumb blondes and >>Mormons. > > Probably a spelling error, Kathy. > > Guys who make jokes about dumb blondes are morons, not Mormons. > > My message was indeed intended as "in jest". > > Axel > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From kahako at verizon.net Mon Jul 18 12:04:45 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Jul 18 12:04:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Spruce Pine Show In-Reply-To: <42DBE4E9.3070803@ncmail.net> References: <42DBE4E9.3070803@ncmail.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050718085357.03e40160@incoming.verizon.net> Bill and I went to the Spruce Pine Show at Grassy Creek a few years ago. It was great. Be sure to look up Charlie Ward for his fluorescent mineral booth. Just ask anyone where the fluorescent booth is, and they'll point it out. Charlie lives nearby in Bakersville, NC, and if you're lucky, he may invite you to his place for a great party on the last day of the show. Have fun, and send a show report to the list afterwards. Aloha, Kitty At 07:20 AM 7/18/2005, you wrote: >Are there any list members attending the Spruce Pine Show in western North >Carolina? >The show is as always the first weekend in August, 5th, 6th & 7th. >It would be nice to meet some list members if anyone is going. >I'll be there for the weekend, so just let me know. >Kenny >NCGS >Raleigh, NC From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Mon Jul 18 12:19:29 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Mon Jul 18 12:19:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Introduction In-Reply-To: <20050718163058.65496.qmail@web34207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Welcome Sandra! Sounds like you are on firm ground in this hobby. Sometimes it may be better, or at least less expensive, not to have too much spousal support. Jeanette and I both are into the hobby since early childhood and have become more "active" since our children are grown. We spend too much. We are in Mobile and the club here has about an equal number of women active, even on the field trips I've been able to make. We also have a Junior Branch, and I have 4 grandchildren involved by their own choice and interest. (2 grandgirls & 2 grandboys) Again, welcome to the group! Glenn Wimpee >From: <mp44sturm-rocks@yahoo.com> , 18 Jul 2005 09:30:58 -0700 (PDT) > >Hello Everyone, > > >Regards, >Sandra Gee, >Houston, TX > ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Find just what you're after with the new, more precise MSN Search - try it now! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Mon Jul 18 12:45:07 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Mon Jul 18 12:45:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds -- Who Are We? Survey Results In-Reply-To: <42DAA73D.4020@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Kreigh and all involved: An absolutely outstanding report! Thankk you for sharing the info with all of us! BTW, I wanted to wait til I had an opportunity to review your work prior to responding. Glad I did and thank you all again! Glenn Wimpee >From: Kreigh Tomaszewski <Kreigh@tomaszewski.net> >Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds -- Who Are We? Survey Results > >This survey began as a project to discover more about who Rockhounds >are, and it has attracted the interest of club officials and members >worldwide who are worried about declining membership and the future of >our hobby. It is our hope that by learning more about current Rockhounds >we will be better able to reach out to the next generation(s) to keep >the hobby alive. > >The Survey Results are in. Tina and I are sorry it took so long, but >this was done as a hobby project. You may download or view the results >as a 459K PDF file at > http://www.Tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Minerals/RockhoundsReport.v.3.pdf > >depending on how your browser is configured. > >Kreigh > >P.S., If you belong to a Club please share this information with your >Club's Newsletter Editor (or announce it at your next meeting) so that >everyone in your Club will have an opportunity to learn of the results. >Thanks! >_______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Find e-mail and documents on your PC instantly with the new MSN Search Toolbar–FREE! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Mon Jul 18 13:22:44 2005 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Mon Jul 18 13:12:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire References: <000701c58afe$061b35e0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <001501c58bd6$749cea30$2e79a118@feldsparflash> This article you refer us to reguarding the hot spot in Santa Barbara County seems to offer an good explanation for this strange event. Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 2:33 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire > Maybe the "hot spot" is not so mysterious after all? > > http://www.independent.com/living/history927.htm > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Axel Emmermann" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 11:43 AM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Hot Spot Starts Forest Fire > > > > >in a nifty little sulfurous mushroom cloud in the lab. Another batch > > >ignited in my hand while carrying it to the microscopy lab, and I had to > > >drench the sample in the nearest drinking fountain. > > > > Masses of fine hair like millerite may even flash-burn in a split second > > like magnesium sponge. Wouldn't the sulfur dioxide be a dead give-away? > > > > Axel > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 18 13:23:45 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Mon Jul 18 13:23:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A mine fire, a female collector (maybe, kinda) and why is it hot anyway References: <20050716184814.26561.qmail@web51009.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006401c58bd6$9abda830$78f1edc1@mpc1> > All kinds of bizarre chemical compounds. They aren't > minerals, since they were formed, at least in part, by > human intervention. Ah yes. Just like Laurium "minerals" then? From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 18 14:10:58 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Mon Jul 18 14:11:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A mine fire, a female collector (maybe, kinda) and why is it hot anyway In-Reply-To: <006401c58bd6$9abda830$78f1edc1@mpc1> Message-ID: <20050718211058.13489.qmail@web51004.mail.yahoo.com> That would be generally correct, except that the Laurium/Lauriom/Lavrion minerals were "grandfathered", and as Don pointed out, each case is handled individually by the IMA. No one ever accused them of consistency! Jim --- Mick Cooper wrote: > > All kinds of bizarre chemical compounds. They > aren't > > minerals, since they were formed, at least in > part, by > > human intervention. > > Ah yes. Just like Laurium "minerals" then? > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From kadok at infowest.com Mon Jul 18 14:22:07 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Mon Jul 18 14:21:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A mine fire, a female collector (maybe, kinda) and why is i In-Reply-To: <1ee.3fd14164.300d1fc4@aol.com> Message-ID: <20050718212155.DA918A10B5@marbella.infowest.com> Hi, Kathy -- Yes, it is! But, as you say, not during the summer! It's 110 degrees out there now (in the shade -- and no shade in rock collecting areas!) And the sun is incredibly hot, even at (or probably because of!) the relatively high altitude. Margaret Utah is a great place to collect rocks, wouldn't ya say? No matter what your hair color! Too hot right now. Wait until fall. Kathy In a message dated 7/17/2005 7:02:42 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com writes: I'm not sure I quite understand your point, (are you thinking of the "dumb blonde jokes??) but my answer would be -- As many blond females who are interested in rock collecting and who are able to get out there to do it! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Mon Jul 18 15:40:22 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Mon Jul 18 15:40:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sun, Snakes and Storms; We Must Be Back In Challis! Message-ID: <42DC2FD6.7060405@tenforward.com> Hi Everyone, I've just completed my big Challis report for this year and I'd like to invite all of you to share in the adventure. I've posted it online, as this is the first year I've been able to create a report accompanied by photographs, at my friend Mike Streeter's website, McRocks. Just click the link below to read this years story, one I call... http://mcrocks.com/ftr/JohnCornishJune05.html Sun, Snakes and Storms; We Must Be Back In Challis! All the very best everyone. Take care, John From dawnmfredricks at msn.com Mon Jul 18 16:18:38 2005 From: dawnmfredricks at msn.com (Dawn M. Fredricks) Date: Mon Jul 18 16:18:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free digging areas in central Oregon In-Reply-To: <4B8B7E6D-F70C-11D9-BC7D-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Message-ID: The Forest Service & BLM have a new map available that shows all the free digs.  It's available in shops in the area, I got mine from Elkins Rock shop in Prineville for $2.50.  http://www.redmondcommunity.com/elkins.html Judy also have free maps and will direct you to any number of places to go over there. You can also order Tim Fisher's CD. He has the entire state and some Washington sites too. It has maps, photos and written instructions. Here's the link for Tim's site http://orerockon.com/ore_rock.htm Here's a Forest Service site that has info on public areas also, http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/centraloregon/recreation/rockhounding/where.shtml Many of these area will have camping since they are on BLM land. You can also look around the Forest Service site for more camping info. It was beautiful when we were there over 4th of July!  Also, very hot.  Take lots of water with you.  Also watch for snakes, we didn't see any, but have in previous years. Dawn Fredricks Portland Oregon >From: Althea Turner <althea@alfalfapress.com> >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors"<rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Subject: [Rockhounds] Free digging areas in central Oregon >Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 14:46:56 -0700 > >Hello, > >I am new to your group and a return to the hobby after >*mumble*mumble* years. I am taking my two kids to central Oregon on >their first rockhounding trip. I'd very much appreciate any >information on free/ public digging areas as I'm a grad student on a >grad student budget. :D Also any tips for someone camping/ >traveling in that area with 9&11 year olds. I think I was the same >age the last time I was in that area. Thank you very much!! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From kahako at verizon.net Mon Jul 18 16:25:24 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Jul 18 16:25:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sun, Snakes and Storms; We Must Be Back In Challis! In-Reply-To: <42DC2FD6.7060405@tenforward.com> References: <42DC2FD6.7060405@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050718132405.026134e0@incoming.verizon.net> Excellent report, as usual, John. The addition of pictures is great, though you do a very good job of creating scenes with words. Thanks! Aloha, Kitty At 12:40 PM 7/18/2005, you wrote: >Hi Everyone, > >I've just completed my big Challis report for this year and I'd like to >invite all of you to share in the adventure. I've posted it online, as >this is the first year I've been able to create a report accompanied by >photographs, at my friend Mike Streeter's website, McRocks. Just click the >link below to read this years story, one I call... > >http://mcrocks.com/ftr/JohnCornishJune05.html > >Sun, Snakes and Storms; We Must Be Back In Challis! > >All the very best everyone. Take care, > >John From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Mon Jul 18 16:34:43 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Mon Jul 18 16:34:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds -- Who Are We? Survey Results In-Reply-To: <42DAA73D.4020@Tomaszewski.net> References: <42DAA73D.4020@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <42DC3C93.7050906@tenforward.com> Dear Kreigh and Tina, What an accomplished body of work. Impressive and so very informative. I very much enjoyed reading the Report and how sad that I did not participate. Perhaps for the next installment... Congratulations on a fine job and thank you. Sincerely, John Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >This survey began as a project to discover more about who Rockhounds >are, and it has attracted the interest of club officials and members >worldwide who are worried about declining membership and the future of >our hobby. It is our hope that by learning more about current Rockhounds >we will be better able to reach out to the next generation(s) to keep >the hobby alive. > >The Survey Results are in. Tina and I are sorry it took so long, but >this was done as a hobby project. You may download or view the results >as a 459K PDF file at > >http://www.Tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Minerals/RockhoundsReport.v.3.pdf > >depending on how your browser is configured. > >Kreigh > >P.S., If you belong to a Club please share this information with your >Club's Newsletter Editor (or announce it at your next meeting) so that >everyone in your Club will have an opportunity to learn of the results. >Thanks! >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From dawnmfredricks at msn.com Mon Jul 18 16:57:33 2005 From: dawnmfredricks at msn.com (Dawn M. Fredricks) Date: Mon Jul 18 16:57:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sun, Snakes and Storms; We Must Be Back In Challis! In-Reply-To: <42DC2FD6.7060405@tenforward.com> Message-ID: John, What a great report, it was just like being there only drier, warmer and cooler! Dawn Fredricks Portland Oregon >From: John and Gloria Cornish <j&gcornish@tenforward.com> >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors"<rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors"<rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> >Subject: [Rockhounds] Sun, Snakes and Storms; We Must Be Back In Challis! >Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 15:40:22 -0700 > >Hi Everyone, > >I've just completed my big Challis report for this year and I'd like >to invite all of you to share in the adventure. I've posted it >online, as this is the first year I've been able to create a report >accompanied by photographs, at my friend Mike Streeter's website, >McRocks. Just click the link below to read this years story, one I >call... > >http://mcrocks.com/ftr/JohnCornishJune05.html > >Sun, Snakes and Storms; We Must Be Back In Challis! > >All the very best everyone. Take care, > >John --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From kahako at verizon.net Mon Jul 18 17:13:28 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Jul 18 17:13:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oregon, snakes & women rockhounds Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050718132709.02613770@incoming.verizon.net> Three threads have come together in my mind: hunting rocks in Oregon, rattlesnakes (esp. John Cornish's report), and women rockhounds. My mother was remarkable for her time. She was born in 1904 and was expected to be a mother and housewife (they didn't use "homemaker" back then). She never went to college; she was a wonderful mother. She loved bird watching and collecting rocks. Of her two children, one became a birder (my brother has an excellent life list and gives birding tours to elder hostel groups), and the other is a rockhound (among other things). I've mentioned before on this list that it was my mother in the late 1940's and early 1950's who encouraged my dad to build an inverter for her SW UV lamp so it could run on a car battery, and then he would lug the battery into the dumps at Franklin at night and my brother and I would tag along, finding glowing treasures. Sometime in the late 1950's after our family had moved from New Jersey to Seattle, we went on a trip to Oregon to look for thunder eggs. I remember that we went to a farm that had been recommended to us, and asked for permission to collect. The farmer agreed and sent his teen-age son to escort us to a promising area. He and my dad went on ahead while my mom and brother and I stayed fairly near our car. Suddenly we heard the distinctive sound of a rattle snake issuing from the base of a bush. My mother ordered my brother and me to move very slowly away from the bush and behind her, while she slowly removed a little deranger pistol from her purse (I have no idea why she had it with her; she didn't particularly like guns, though she knew how to use them). Now remember, this was back before it was considered bad form (and in some places against the law) to kill rattle snakes. My mother carefully loaded the tiny gun and held it at arms length with both hands---looking for all the world like a modern policewoman ready to shout "Freeze! Police!"---and she carefully aimed and slowly squeezed the trigger. The gun went off and we saw that she had hit the snake right in the head, fairly blowing it off. My brother delightedly examined the body and used his pen knife to remove the rattle as a trophy. My father came running back and demanded an explanation for the sound of the gunshot. I said, "Mom shot a rattle snake, right in the head!" My dad said, "Nonsense! The barrel of that little gun is much too short to be accurate. She couldn't have done that." "Well, nevertheless, I did!" said my mother. My brother and I looked upon Mom as even more of a hero after that. We went on and collected many thunder eggs. I have inherited them, and one day will find someone who can cut them in half for me. There is one that is actually three, stuck together in a row. For a while my mom had a diamond saw and she cut several of those thunder eggs and polished them. A few have the classic appearance of a scene. My favorite looks like a lake at night with the moon and clouds above, and the white parts fluoresce. My mother never thought of herself as a pioneer or as being "liberated." But she didn't let the fact that she was female and had no higher education stop her from doing what she wanted to do. If she wanted to learn about birds or fluorescent minerals, she went to the library (and incidentally, took my brother and me along). Aloha, Kitty From bassmeister_2000 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 18 17:21:53 2005 From: bassmeister_2000 at yahoo.com (Joe Mulvey) Date: Mon Jul 18 17:21:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sun, Snakes and Storms Message-ID: <20050719002153.52886.qmail@web33405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi John, As usual another awesome story backed with wonderful pictures! Thank you for sharing! Regards, Joe Joe Mulvey Nashua, NH -- USA http://www.lostandfoundproject.com http://home.comcast.net/~mgag1 ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From bassmeister_2000 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 18 17:26:03 2005 From: bassmeister_2000 at yahoo.com (Joe Mulvey) Date: Mon Jul 18 17:26:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] How do you Stake A Claim? Message-ID: <20050719002603.55063.qmail@web33405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Does anyone know the process for a person to stake a claim? Reading John's Rat's Nest report makes me wonder if this is something worth looking into up here in New Hampshire. Regards, Joe ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From jr50wv at yahoo.com Mon Jul 18 17:33:49 2005 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Mon Jul 18 17:33:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] rockhounding near Houston, Gee etc Message-ID: <20050719003349.64526.qmail@web41011.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Sandra Gee: I've visited Houston TX (more than) several times to be with my Dad and brother and his family. Once a cousin came down from College Station to visit. They had been boating/canoeing on the Brazos River, and had picked up several clear crystals on the banks. They gave me one, and I showed it around until someone told me what it was. Gypsum, var. Selenite. The river was very low at the time, so rocks not usually visible were there for the picking up. I've also read that there is a bridge near College Station called Whiskey Bridge (because it's along a county line that marked the end of dry territory back when, so it was the closest place for college students to get liquor) and that along the banks of the stream it crosses is a prolific fossil collecting locale. No heavy lifting or rock-breaking tools required at either site. I also know that there is a lot of petrified wood (the best is palm heart wood) in TX. There are ranches in the hill country where you can collect topaz by screening rocky dirt, but you have to pay to dig there...shouldn't be a problem for anyone with a job to take a collecting weekend. There's a couple of Houston-area folks who comment at the McRocks message board, too, at http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/mb/mcrocks which is another good place to learn about rock hounding. So ask around there for directions or an invite to go into the country some time. Take a folding chair, plenty of water, sensible shoes, a wide brimmed hat, and rest between looking for treasures in the sand, dirt and mud. By the way, I have some acquaintances from Greenbrier county, WV named Gee, do you have any relatives in WV? There seem to be a lot of folks from here in TX and other places where people live for a job of some sort. Keep on Rockin' everyone, JR... ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From morningstar at att.net Mon Jul 18 17:52:40 2005 From: morningstar at att.net (morningstar@att.net) Date: Mon Jul 18 17:52:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] How do you Stake A Claim? Message-ID: <071920050052.14701.42DC4ED800051DB40000396D21612436469D0E9B9C090207029D0103@att.net> Hi, I'm not sure if you can stake a claim in NH, but I'm familiar with staking BLM land, and here is the BLM page: http://www.blm.gov/nhp/index.htm Sorry my time is extremely limited right now, or else I'd do some more searching for you. Since NH, as far as I know, has no BLM land, any mining must be carried out differently than the methods listed above. There is probably a state geological survey or natural resources office you can contact. Fortunately, Idaho is one of the remaining states where you can stake a claim on BLM land (presuming you have done your research and are not jumping someone else's claim and getting yourself shot and so forth). It's actually very easy to stake a claim on open BLM land; my friend Bill Gardner, of the Purple Passion Claim fame (known for multi-colored multi-wavelength fluorescent minerals) has several in Arizona. I really hope someone else from the list can help with your particular situation, but if not, I think I've given you some clues to get started in NH. Back to packing, Don -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Joe Mulvey > Does anyone know the process for a person to stake a claim? > Reading John's Rat's Nest report makes me wonder if this is > something worth looking into up here in New Hampshire. > Regards, > Joe > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________ > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rainforest1950 at lycos.com Mon Jul 18 18:25:50 2005 From: rainforest1950 at lycos.com (rain forest) Date: Mon Jul 18 18:25:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Goodbye and have fun Message-ID: <20050719012550.3C027E5BC7@ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com> I can no longer participate at a site where certain people are lionized. I was chastised by a member for trying to share some collecting fun. I will not name names, but in my heart, I'm saddened by the actions of this supposed rockhound. I thought I had a friend but he was more interested in his own personal gratification. He went over the edge withouth knowing the facts. I will say I have enjoyed most of the banter and fun here; that is what rockhounding is supposed to be about. To one and all; Enjoy the pleasures that this hobby offers and don't become so self centered that to forget that the earth gives up what in the end she will take. David Bese The Rainforest Hippie Pt. Orchard, Wa. "There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some reason in madness." "Turbulence is life force. It is opportunity. Let's love turbulence and use it for change." "Every time you don't follow your inner guidance, you feel a loss of energy, loss of power, a sense of spiritual deadness." -- _______________________________________________ NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com From jaybates at rcn.com Mon Jul 18 18:50:44 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Mon Jul 18 18:49:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Goodbye and have fun References: <20050719012550.3C027E5BC7@ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <000501c58c04$47dc39a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Did I miss something? Keep reading, and when your inner guidance tells you, please return and reciprocate. "Turbulance is life force. It is opportunity". This is a board of many individuals, not of one. ----- Original Message ----- From: "rain forest" To: Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 6:25 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Goodbye and have fun > I can no longer participate at a site where certain people are lionized. I was chastised by a member for trying to share some collecting fun. I will not name names, but in my heart, I'm saddened by the actions of this supposed rockhound. I thought I had a friend but he was more interested in his own personal gratification. He went over the edge withouth knowing the facts. > > I will say I have enjoyed most of the banter and fun here; that is what rockhounding is supposed to be about. To one and all; Enjoy the pleasures that this hobby offers and don't become so self centered that to forget that the earth gives up what in the end she will take. > > David Bese > The Rainforest Hippie > Pt. Orchard, Wa. > > "There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some reason in madness." > "Turbulence is life force. It is opportunity. Let's love turbulence and use it for change." > "Every time you don't follow your inner guidance, you feel a loss of energy, loss of power, a sense of spiritual deadness." > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. > http://datingsearch.lycos.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com Mon Jul 18 19:36:12 2005 From: mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com (mp44sturm-rocks@yahoo.com) Date: Mon Jul 18 19:36:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] rockhounding near Houston, Gee etc In-Reply-To: <20050719003349.64526.qmail@web41011.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050719023612.31464.qmail@web34209.mail.mud.yahoo.com> J.R., Nope, I don't have any relatives in West Virginia. My father emigrated from China in 1948 shortly after the Communists came into power--Dad was on the "wrong side". This sounds like good information to follow up on. The Whiskey Bridge site near College Station sounds like it's worth going to with young ones. Thanks! Sandra. --- "J. R. Hodel" wrote: > Hi Sandra Gee: > > I've visited Houston TX (more than) several times to > be with my Dad and brother and his family. Once a > cousin came down from College Station to visit. > They > had been boating/canoeing on the Brazos River, and > had > picked up several clear crystals on the banks. They > gave me one, and I showed it around until someone > told > me what it was. > > Gypsum, var. Selenite. The river was very low at > the > time, so rocks not usually visible were there for > the > picking up. > > I've also read that there is a bridge near College > Station called Whiskey Bridge (because it's along a > county line that marked the end of dry territory > back > when, so it was the closest place for college > students > to get liquor) and that along the banks of the > stream > it crosses is a prolific fossil collecting locale. > No > heavy lifting or rock-breaking tools required at > either site. > > I also know that there is a lot of petrified wood > (the > best is palm heart wood) in TX. There are ranches > in > the hill country where you can collect topaz by > screening rocky dirt, but you have to pay to dig > there...shouldn't be a problem for anyone with a job > to take a collecting weekend. > > There's a couple of Houston-area folks who comment > at > the McRocks message board, too, at > http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/mb/mcrocks which > is another good place to learn about rock hounding. > > So ask around there for directions or an invite to > go > into the country some time. Take a folding chair, > plenty of water, sensible shoes, a wide brimmed hat, > and rest between looking for treasures in the sand, > dirt and mud. > > By the way, I have some acquaintances from > Greenbrier > county, WV named Gee, do you have any relatives in > WV? > > There seem to be a lot of folks from here in TX and > other places where people live for a job of some > sort. > > Keep on Rockin' everyone, > > JR... > > > > > > ____________________________________________________ > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From jemstone at amug.org Mon Jul 18 22:53:10 2005 From: jemstone at amug.org (John McLaughlin) Date: Mon Jul 18 22:52:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Absence of Minorities? References: <004501c58b9f$9af055f0$14bf8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> Message-ID: <001101c58c26$255aca00$4c592741@MCWIDOM> I missed the earlier discussion on minority members of our hobby, but it's a good topic. I don't think it is so much an affluence issue, as many of the folks in the clubs I belong to are by no means wealthy. We do have a number of Mexican Americans (I use that term rather than Hispanics as the folks involved in the clubs I'm in have Mexican roots) in some clubs, mostly because their families came from a mining background. I must disagree with Terrie, though I have no doubt that she is speaking from her experience with clubs in her area. I'm president of one of the larger clubs in the Phoenix area and I can assure you that all people who are interested in the hobby are greeted warmly and have been for many years. The economic, educational and occupational diversity of rockhounders is always amazing to me. I also know many women who are just as nutty about rocks and minerals as the guys. I think the issue goes beyond rockhounding, and has to do with earlier life experiences. Folks who grow up in a city and have no childhood exposure to collecting rocks/minerals/fossils are not as likely to take up the hobby as people who have childhood memories of collecting and enjoying the outdoors. In my case I had a father who was a rockhound and I accompanied him on many collecting trips to the Mojave Desert and even cut a few stones. There was a long lapse in my rockhounding, starting in adolescence and lasting till I was about 40, but I eventually returned to the hobby. I have inflicted rockhounding on my own boys and I know they will eventually wander back to the hobby - after their careers and families are farther along. I spend a lot of time outdoors collecting and hiking. I see relatively few African Americans when I'm out, though I do see lots of Hispanic folks enjoying the outdoors. In Arizona we have a large number of people of Mexican heritage who grew up in our small towns. They enjoy being out and can be found everywhere in Arizona fishing, camping, hiking and rockhounding. Glendale is a family oriented community that has agricultural roots. Our housing is much more affordable than Scottsdale and other better known areas and consequently we have a highly diverse community. My wife and I know and work with many African Americans, all sharing the same basic incomes and values we do. Virtually none of these folks spend much time out of doors. Camping is done in Holiday Inns. They are involved in hobbies, but not rockhounding. If we want African Americans in our hobby I believe we need to take the long view and start reaching out to the kids. We can steal a page from our librarians. You think story time is a nice way to promote literacy? It may be that, but it also instills pleasant memories of going to the library and makes life long library advocates of those story time kids. I would be interested in hearing of successful outreach programs aimed at African Americans and Asians. From my point of view, they are missing a great time. John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona (Still shaking off jet lag from a rockhounding trip to Western Australia) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anita Westlake" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 6:50 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Absence of Minorities? > I'd like to chime in on the minority issue. We've had only 1 or 2 African > American visitors to our club meetings in the past (and we are a huge > club: > 600 members). > > I've often wondered why this hobby seems to be populated by white people > for > the most part. I don't think it's because we haven't welcomed others with > open arms. We've gone out of our way to be welcoming (in fact, more so). > So > what's the problem? > > Is a cultural thing? Is the collecting urge limited to affluent whites > with > time and money on their hands? I don't know. But I don't think it's > because > we're not welcoming. Not enough African-Americans come to the meetings to > be > welcomed in the first place! Plus, you don't see African-Americans at gem > shows either. What's up with that? > > Anita > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Teresa Masters > Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 10:14 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] women and geoscience-musing > > Tina, > Yes to many of your points. Many in the rock and mineral clubs think > it is wasted time to encourage youth. The argument being, they will > discover "girls" and stop seeking rocks. Notice there was little > encouragement for girls to enter this hobby/field. > > Others will say the young men will remember the pleasure of the field > trips, the open air and mineral discovery, and after marriage will > remember this as a healthy outing for their own families, then they > return to the fold. > > I long awaited the end of the rigidity of attitude towards youth. I > want to see a resurgence of rock and mineral clubs youth activities, > both for girls and boys. > > My last comment is on the absence of minorities in the same clubs. For > the most part, they have not been welcomed with open arms, males or > females. > > Terrie > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Tue Jul 19 06:18:21 2005 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Tue Jul 19 06:18:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] rockhounding near Houston, Gee etc Message-ID: <1135365A.26B2DD73.02180873@aol.com> Of course my recommendation to anyone who is looking to collect on a visit is to consult the AFMS web site and find a local club. Chances are you will be able to hook up with someone who would love to take you collecting. Barring that, I lived in Houston for a few years... about 20 years ago. Depending on where you plan to be here are a few ideas. High Island beaches produce nice fossils at low tide. I found horse, mammoth, Sloth and shark fossils there. The Brazos River is crossed by I-10 west of town, a little west of Katy. Cross over the bridge going west and take the first exit. Work back to the west bank of the river under I-10. There are ... or at least used to be gravel bars that have lots of petrified wood and some fossils. Collecting is easy if the river is low. Much of the petrified wood is heavily tumbled, and stained brown, but it is pretty cool nonetheless. Of course the areas around Colege Station are certainly worth visiting as mentioned in a previous note. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Jul 19 09:22:54 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Jul 19 09:22:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Survey notes Message-ID: <071920051622.14494.42DD28DE000477030000389E216037631607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Dear Tina, I just wanted to add one more note to congratulate you and Kreigh for a very well and professionally done report on the Rockhound survey! Pete -------------- Original message from tango juli : -------------- > Thanks everyone for the encouraging feedback on the > survey. As you will note on the last page in the > footnotes, the Rockhounds list was instrumental in > refining the instrument and I feel it was a community > project. > (also--apparently, the last line of text got cut off > and I will fix it tonite and make the clean version > available.) > > There is a lot of data that was collected that will > shed more light on questions you have asked (who is > more willing to travel to collect, go to shows or go > to symposiums; how did the women get into the hobby vs > the men), but it takes a long time to analyze the data > accurately. > > Because of the survey engine I used to conduct the > survey, there were a few problems with recoding the > data; this took a while to fix. If anyone decides to > do a survey like this, online, in the future, please > don't hesitate to contact me for pointers. > > It is my hope to work on an article for publication > from the data, and put out another report with just > the raw descriptive stats. There are at least 20 > questions I haven't even begun to process yet (how > many clubs do you belong to? What should clubs do to > promote themselves? etc) > > Thanks again & Keep the feedback and ideas coming! > tina > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Paintricks at aol.com Tue Jul 19 10:25:12 2005 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Tue Jul 19 10:25:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] rockhounding near Houston, Gee etc Message-ID: <217.50c0b6c.300e9178@aol.com> In Bacliff, There are some mice pieces of dog toothed calcite that line the bank for erosion. I wouldn't recommend that you take large pieces but there are many crystals that are loose that are easily attained. These rocks were brought in from the Llano area near Austin. Go to the Bacliff road access off Hiway 646 toward Texas City if coming from Houston and turn left at the light. Go down till you hit the water and go right over the water outlet to the park on the left. Good luck, Kevin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From libawc at emory.edu Tue Jul 19 11:16:16 2005 From: libawc at emory.edu (Anita Westlake) Date: Tue Jul 19 11:14:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Absence of Minorities? In-Reply-To: <001101c58c26$255aca00$4c592741@MCWIDOM> Message-ID: <002201c58c8d$f5096c40$14bf8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> Excellent post John! I think you have said in relatively few words what I was trying to figure out in my own mind, and articulate. You are right on the money when you say we need to involve all people of color at an early age. If we can just get a tiny spark going, it's okay if the embers cool off a bit. In the rockhounding survey that was just completed, I believe it was found that the preponderance of rockhounds were interested at a young age, got distracted by other things in their teens, and came back to the hobby later in life. But they did come back. The absence of role models seems to be another consideration. There's a wonderful African-American host on some of the more astronomical "Nova" programs (sorry: I don't remember his name.) He's well-spoken, humorous, and has his doctorate degree in one of the earth science fields. The only other role model I can think of is Colin Powell. He majored in Geology in college but got "off-track" when he went into politics! Anita -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of John McLaughlin Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 12:53 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Absence of Minorities? I missed the earlier discussion on minority members of our hobby, but it's a good topic. I don't think it is so much an affluence issue, as many of the folks in the clubs I belong to are by no means wealthy. We do have a number of Mexican Americans (I use that term rather than Hispanics as the folks involved in the clubs I'm in have Mexican roots) in some clubs, mostly because their families came from a mining background. I must disagree with Terrie, though I have no doubt that she is speaking from her experience with clubs in her area. I'm president of one of the larger clubs in the Phoenix area and I can assure you that all people who are interested in the hobby are greeted warmly and have been for many years. The economic, educational and occupational diversity of rockhounders is always amazing to me. I also know many women who are just as nutty about rocks and minerals as the guys. I think the issue goes beyond rockhounding, and has to do with earlier life experiences. Folks who grow up in a city and have no childhood exposure to collecting rocks/minerals/fossils are not as likely to take up the hobby as people who have childhood memories of collecting and enjoying the outdoors. In my case I had a father who was a rockhound and I accompanied him on many collecting trips to the Mojave Desert and even cut a few stones. There was a long lapse in my rockhounding, starting in adolescence and lasting till I was about 40, but I eventually returned to the hobby. I have inflicted rockhounding on my own boys and I know they will eventually wander back to the hobby - after their careers and families are farther along. I spend a lot of time outdoors collecting and hiking. I see relatively few African Americans when I'm out, though I do see lots of Hispanic folks enjoying the outdoors. In Arizona we have a large number of people of Mexican heritage who grew up in our small towns. They enjoy being out and can be found everywhere in Arizona fishing, camping, hiking and rockhounding. Glendale is a family oriented community that has agricultural roots. Our housing is much more affordable than Scottsdale and other better known areas and consequently we have a highly diverse community. My wife and I know and work with many African Americans, all sharing the same basic incomes and values we do. Virtually none of these folks spend much time out of doors. Camping is done in Holiday Inns. They are involved in hobbies, but not rockhounding. If we want African Americans in our hobby I believe we need to take the long view and start reaching out to the kids. We can steal a page from our librarians. You think story time is a nice way to promote literacy? It may be that, but it also instills pleasant memories of going to the library and makes life long library advocates of those story time kids. I would be interested in hearing of successful outreach programs aimed at African Americans and Asians. From my point of view, they are missing a great time. John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona (Still shaking off jet lag from a rockhounding trip to Western Australia) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anita Westlake" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 6:50 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Absence of Minorities? > I'd like to chime in on the minority issue. We've had only 1 or 2 African > American visitors to our club meetings in the past (and we are a huge > club: > 600 members). > > I've often wondered why this hobby seems to be populated by white people > for > the most part. I don't think it's because we haven't welcomed others with > open arms. We've gone out of our way to be welcoming (in fact, more so). > So > what's the problem? > > Is a cultural thing? Is the collecting urge limited to affluent whites > with > time and money on their hands? I don't know. But I don't think it's > because > we're not welcoming. Not enough African-Americans come to the meetings to > be > welcomed in the first place! Plus, you don't see African-Americans at gem > shows either. What's up with that? > > Anita > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Teresa Masters > Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 10:14 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] women and geoscience-musing > > Tina, > Yes to many of your points. Many in the rock and mineral clubs think > it is wasted time to encourage youth. The argument being, they will > discover "girls" and stop seeking rocks. Notice there was little > encouragement for girls to enter this hobby/field. > > Others will say the young men will remember the pleasure of the field > trips, the open air and mineral discovery, and after marriage will > remember this as a healthy outing for their own families, then they > return to the fold. > > I long awaited the end of the rigidity of attitude towards youth. I > want to see a resurgence of rock and mineral clubs youth activities, > both for girls and boys. > > My last comment is on the absence of minorities in the same clubs. For > the most part, they have not been welcomed with open arms, males or > females. > > Terrie > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at verizon.net Tue Jul 19 11:25:01 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Jul 19 11:25:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Goodbye and have fun In-Reply-To: <20050719012550.3C027E5BC7@ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20050719012550.3C027E5BC7@ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050719081055.02608950@incoming.verizon.net> Dave, are you sure this problem didn't occur on a different list? I've looked back at your posts and can't see anything that could be described as "trying to share some collecting fun." I'm also not aware of anyone on this list being "lionized." If something occurred off-list that upset you, that is unfortunate. But please don't blame the entire Rockhounds list for one unhappy incident. I think I can speak for us all in saying that we wish you would stay. Aloha, Kitty At 03:25 PM 7/18/2005, David Bese wrote: >I can no longer participate at a site where certain people are lionized. I >was chastised by a member for trying to share some collecting fun. I will >not name names, but in my heart, I'm saddened by the actions of this >supposed rockhound. I thought I had a friend but he was more interested in >his own personal gratification. He went over the edge withouth knowing the >facts. > >I will say I have enjoyed most of the banter and fun here; that is what >rockhounding is supposed to be about. To one and all; Enjoy the pleasures >that this hobby offers and don't become so self centered that to forget >that the earth gives up what in the end she will take. > >David Bese >The Rainforest Hippie >Pt. Orchard, Wa. From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Tue Jul 19 11:52:02 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Tue Jul 19 11:52:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sun, Snakes and Storms; We Must Be Back In Challis! In-Reply-To: <42DC2FD6.7060405@tenforward.com> Message-ID: John, Terrific trip, great report! Thanks! Glenn >From: John and Gloria Cornish <j&gcornish@tenforward.com> > >Hi Everyone, > >I've just completed my big Challis report for this year and I'd like >to invite all of you to share in the adventure. I've posted it >online, as this is the first year I've been able to create a report >accompanied by photographs, at my friend Mike Streeter's website, >McRocks. Just click the link below to read this years story, one I >call... > >http://mcrocks.com/ftr/JohnCornishJune05.html > >Sun, Snakes and Storms; We Must Be Back In Challis! > >All the very best everyone. Take care, > >John > ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Download today's top songs at MSN Music from artists like U2, Eminem, & Kelly Clarkson --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From tjokela at execulink.com Tue Jul 19 11:55:11 2005 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Tue Jul 19 11:55:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Goodbye and have fun References: <20050719012550.3C027E5BC7@ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050719081055.02608950@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <003201c58c93$6451c9d0$6400a8c0@Junior> I was lionized once at the zoo. Very, very painful. T ----- Original Message ----- >I'm also not aware of anyone on > this list being "lionized." > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Jul 19 17:31:44 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Jul 19 17:24:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhound Survey-Problems with Download References: <20050718153623.94248.qmail@web34205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42DD99AE.6145@Tomaszewski.net> mp44sturm-rocks@yahoo.com wrote: > > I've tried downloading the survey report three times, > once from the list and twice from > > http://www.Tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Minerals/RockhoundsReport.v.3.pdf > > I end up with 7 pages. The last sentence of the page > 7 that I have reads: > "An informational club website is equivalent to an ad > in the telephone directory for the" > and just stops there. > > Am I missin a page 8? > > Sandra Gee, > Houston, TX Sandra, We did discover the last sentence of the report had been accidently truncated and have reposted the corrected report at http://www.Tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Minerals/RockhoundsReport.v.4.pdf and updated the link on the website. My apology for any inconvenience this has caused. Kreigh From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Jul 19 17:39:01 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Jul 19 17:31:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: Rockhounds -- Who Are We? Survey Results] Message-ID: <42DD9B63.A60@Tomaszewski.net> We discovered the last sentence of the report had been accidently truncated and have reposted the corrected report at http://www.Tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Minerals/RockhoundsReport.v.4.pdf and updated the link on the website. My apology for any inconvenience this has caused. Kreigh --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) message/rfc822 --- From pbhewitt at comcast.net Tue Jul 19 18:28:03 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Tue Jul 19 18:28:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Curtis Arboretum References: <20050718153623.94248.qmail@web34205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <42DD99AE.6145@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000c01c58cca$46642da0$6501a8c0@maingear> I have heard that garnets can be found at the Curtis Arboretum in Cheltenham Township, Pa. The person that told me had never been there so he did not know where to look. Has anyone on the list ever been there or heard more about it? Paul in Marietta From mike at colellaphoto.com Tue Jul 19 18:29:12 2005 From: mike at colellaphoto.com (Michael J. Colella) Date: Tue Jul 19 18:29:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: Rockhounds -- Who Are We? Survey Results] In-Reply-To: <42DD9B63.A60@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <200507192129980.SM01412@mjce4712fb7466> I'm having trouble linking to the survey, can you help? Mike C http://www.Tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Minerals/RockhoundsReport.v.4.pdf and updated the link on the website. My apology for any inconvenience this has caused. Kreigh --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) message/rfc822 --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tangojuli at yahoo.com Tue Jul 19 18:59:01 2005 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Tue Jul 19 18:59:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nova Astronomer In-Reply-To: <200507200102.j6K12jlk017513@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20050720015901.32110.qmail@web60815.mail.yahoo.com> In response to Anita's post earlier: The astronomer on the NOVA series ORIGINS was Neil deGrasse Tyson, director of the American Museum of Natural History's Hayden Planetarium. I agree with you, he was excellent. --Tina from Anita---snip--- "There's a wonderful African-American host on some of the more astronomical "Nova" programs (sorry: I don't remember his name.) He's well-spoken, humorous, and has his doctorate degree in one of the earth science fields. The only other role model I can think of is Colin Powell. He majored in Geology in college but got "off-track" when he went into politics!" Anita ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From ronwinter at comcast.net Tue Jul 19 19:05:10 2005 From: ronwinter at comcast.net (Ron Winter) Date: Tue Jul 19 19:01:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Goodbye and have fun In-Reply-To: <20050719012550.3C027E5BC7@ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20050719012550.3C027E5BC7@ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <42DDB156.8050105@comcast.net> Illegitimus Non Carborundum. People always express their opinions as correct. People always think they are right. We are all unique, all of us right, all of us wrong. If you really enjoy the list, don't loose out because of one persons opinion, even if they are an @$$#0(#! That, by the way, is my professional opinion. Which happens to be correct. :~) Look at the world. Heck, we're all absent the facts. Sorry we didn't get a chance to go collecting Bro. rain forest wrote: >I can no longer participate at a site where certain people are lionized. I was chastised by a member for trying to share some collecting fun. I will not name names, but in my heart, I'm saddened by the actions of this supposed rockhound. I thought I had a friend but he was more interested in his own personal gratification. He went over the edge withouth knowing the facts. > >I will say I have enjoyed most of the banter and fun here; that is what rockhounding is supposed to be about. To one and all; Enjoy the pleasures that this hobby offers and don't become so self centered that to forget that the earth gives up what in the end she will take. > >David Bese >The Rainforest Hippie >Pt. Orchard, Wa. > >"There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some reason in madness." >"Turbulence is life force. It is opportunity. Let's love turbulence and use it for change." >"Every time you don't follow your inner guidance, you feel a loss of energy, loss of power, a sense of spiritual deadness." > > > > -- Regards, Ron Winter Auburn, Washington From kahako at verizon.net Tue Jul 19 21:44:52 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Jul 19 21:45:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nova Astronomer In-Reply-To: <20050720015901.32110.qmail@web60815.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200507200102.j6K12jlk017513@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <20050720015901.32110.qmail@web60815.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050719183729.02614018@incoming.verizon.net> Bill (my husband, the astronomer) says he has met and talked with Neil deGrasse Tyson on several occasions and he is every bit as impressive in person as on TV. He's an excellent advocate for science education. Aloha, Kitty >The astronomer on the NOVA series ORIGINS was Neil >deGrasse Tyson, director of the American Museum of >Natural History's Hayden Planetarium. I agree with >you, he was excellent. >--Tina > >from Anita---snip--- >"There's a wonderful African-American host on some of >the more astronomical "Nova" programs (sorry: I don't >remember his name.) >Anita From tam2819 at cox.net Tue Jul 19 23:09:18 2005 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Tue Jul 19 23:09:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Absence of Minorities? In-Reply-To: <001101c58c26$255aca00$4c592741@MCWIDOM> References: <004501c58b9f$9af055f0$14bf8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> <001101c58c26$255aca00$4c592741@MCWIDOM> Message-ID: <3f6b02a8e6e25ccdedfae63b0aab1215@cox.net> Hello John, Welcome back. I am not only speaking of local clubs, I am speaking of an entire Federation. My first Rock and Mineral Club had an African-American Federation Director. He was to be the only one I saw in the Federation for the next 30 years. I was truly saddened when he passed. A true gentleman. Curtis Miller. I saw very few Hispanic-Americans until I spent time around the Bakersfield Club. There was far less prejudice there than I experienced in my own area. Asian-Americans also were among the missing until one group formed their own club. I agree that there are some cultural differences, I also know I rarely see a child who does not love "rocks." Some clubs reach out to youth, all youth, others are not so inclined. Something has been missing, Communication is and can be a very large part of the problem. We must reach out via areas which are known to attract youth, libraries, Boys & Girls Clubs. Just think if JK Rowlings genre were rocks rather than magic. Terrie From kahako at verizon.net Wed Jul 20 00:42:02 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Jul 20 00:42:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Absence of Minorities? In-Reply-To: <3f6b02a8e6e25ccdedfae63b0aab1215@cox.net> References: <004501c58b9f$9af055f0$14bf8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> <001101c58c26$255aca00$4c592741@MCWIDOM> <3f6b02a8e6e25ccdedfae63b0aab1215@cox.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050719213618.026139b0@incoming.verizon.net> Rocks ARE magic. Fluorescence, triboluminescence, iridescence, magnetism, etc....All we have to do is convince kids that they are magic. Anyone want to write a fabulous book? Aloha, Kitty >Just think if JK Rowlings genre were rocks rather than magic. > >Terrie From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Wed Jul 20 08:18:52 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Wed Jul 20 08:18:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sun, Snakes and Storms; We Must Be Back In Challis! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42DE6B5C.1050508@tenforward.com> Hi Glenn, Joe, Dawn and Kitty, Thank you so much for taking the time. I really appreciate it. It's not always the easiest thing to create a paper and I get fairly nervous when their completed and I finally present them, comments like yours make it all worthwhile; thank you. All the very best, John PS Kitty... Thank you for your own story, your Mom, what a wonderful lady! Glenn Wimpee wrote: >John, > >Terrific trip, great report! > >Thanks! > > > > >Glenn > > > > > >>From: John and Gloria Cornish <j&gcornish@tenforward.com> >> >>Hi Everyone, >> >>I've just completed my big Challis report for this year and I'd like >>to invite all of you to share in the adventure. I've posted it >>online, as this is the first year I've been able to create a report >>accompanied by photographs, at my friend Mike Streeter's website, >>McRocks. Just click the link below to read this years story, one I >>call... >> >>http://mcrocks.com/ftr/JohnCornishJune05.html >> >>Sun, Snakes and Storms; We Must Be Back In Challis! >> >>All the very best everyone. Take care, >> >>John >> > > > > >------------------------------------------ > >------------------------------------------ > >Download today's top songs at MSN Music from artists like U2, Eminem, & Kelly Clarkson > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >text/html (html body -- converted) >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From tam2819 at cox.net Wed Jul 20 10:57:31 2005 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Wed Jul 20 10:57:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Absence of Minorities? In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050719213618.026139b0@incoming.verizon.net> References: <004501c58b9f$9af055f0$14bf8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> <001101c58c26$255aca00$4c592741@MCWIDOM> <3f6b02a8e6e25ccdedfae63b0aab1215@cox.net> <6.2.1.2.0.20050719213618.026139b0@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <4f03de97470fa3d889e843a824e91272@cox.net> Kitty, When my grandchildren were living with me, reading to them on a daily basis was a firm part of our routine. I came across an author named Piers Anthony. His books were great and his imagination boundless. One book had his characters named Opal, Topaz, etc, and gemstones were a central portion of that plot line. My grandsons were active members of our local Rock and Mineral Club and had been very active in field trips. They got great pleasure in recognizing rock and mineral names and the interesting way they developed within that plot. I totally agree, rocks are magic. Terrie From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 20 11:55:23 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Wed Jul 20 11:55:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Laytonville Longvale quarry, California query In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050720185524.86928.qmail@web51002.mail.yahoo.com> Tom, Do you have the paper by Chesterman that was part of Geology of Northern California- Field Guide Bull. 190, Mineral Information Services, California Div. of Mines & Geology? It may shed some light on the problem. If you don't have it, I can send you a copy. Regards, Jim Daly Sauktown Sales --- Thomas Yancey wrote: > Over the past year or so, a couple people have asked > questions about > the minerals present in the Longvale quarry at > Laytonville, > California, which is the type locality for deerite, > howieite and > zussmanite. Samples of rock from this quarry are > available from > dealers. Although there are detailed mineralogical > reports on the > three newly named minerals, the new minerals occur > in a matrix with > other common minerals which are not described in > those reports. The > mineralogical reports focus on the new minerals, not > on the mineral > assemblage of the rock. In the absence of > petrographic examination, > some of the matrix minerals can be confused with the > newly named > minerals, especially the howieite. If I can get > some help in visual > determination of the common minerals in the rock > samples, it would > save from having to get an analysis done. I am most > uncertain about > the distinction between deerite, howieite, aegirine > and reibeckite in > these samples. > > Although there is some variation in the rocks > containing these new > minerals, the commonly offered mineral assemblage is > a rock composed > of common black bladed crystals of moderate size > (few mm to cm), > arranged in a preferred orientation and sometimes > arranged in radial > clusters co-occurring with a smaller amount of tiny > (<1-2 mm, very > small diameter) bluish needles arranged in thin > layers (the layers of > tiny bluish needles are soft enough to be bent); > these occur with > varied anhedral clear minerals, presumably including > quartz. I am > curious about the identity of both the black bladed > crystals and the > tiny bluish needles. Since aegirine and reibeckite > are common > rock-forming minerals in the metamorphosed rock > containing the > deerite, howieite and zussmannite assemblage, am I > correct in > thinking that the two prismatic minerals are > aegirine and reibeckite > respectively? If so, how does deerite - which was > originally > described as occurring in radiating clusters > embedded in aegirine - > differ visually from aegirine? > > If anyone is familiar with this the minerals in this > rock type, I > would appreciate hearing about the minerals that can > be identified > visually. > > Tom Yancey > -- > Thomas Yancey > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From geenet2 at mchsi.com Wed Jul 20 20:05:07 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Wed Jul 20 20:05:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Absence of Minorities? References: <004501c58b9f$9af055f0$14bf8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu><001101c58c26$255aca00$4c592741@MCWIDOM><3f6b02a8e6e25ccdedfae63b0aab1215@cox.net><6.2.1.2.0.20050719213618.026139b0@incoming.verizon.net> <4f03de97470fa3d889e843a824e91272@cox.net> Message-ID: <003e01c58da1$004a7d60$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Which Piers Anthony book is that? I'm a Xanth fan myself, and I can't think of a Zanth book with those characters. His books are so punny! Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teresa Masters" Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Absence of Minorities? > I came across an author named Piers Anthony. His books were great and his > imagination boundless. One book had his characters named Opal, Topaz, etc, > and gemstones were a central portion of that plot line. > s From batsondebelfry at yahoo.com Wed Jul 20 20:44:32 2005 From: batsondebelfry at yahoo.com (Neal Hazen) Date: Wed Jul 20 20:44:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Minorities, and growth of the hobby Message-ID: <20050721034432.10572.qmail@web30907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I found the questions of minorities in rock-hounding, and concern over declining interest in the hobby interesting. I am a retired science teacher, and for many years I dealt with at-risk, inner city kids. Living on the Gulf Coast, it's a long trip to anywhere there is decent rock-hounding. At least that's what I thought until recently. Until I joined the Mobile Rock and Gem Society I had no idea that some nice agate could be collected less than 70 miles from town. Had I known that back when... Well, anyway, that's one of the things it takes to get minorities and new members, period, interested in the hobby. Someone who is interested in rocks and fossils, with knowledge of the area, has to let kids ans well as adults know what's out there. Next, you have to show them what uses their finds can be put to. Now, many minority kids are not going to be interested for too long in having a bunch of rocks cluttering up the shelves of their bedroom, or piled up in boxes in the closet. If they are taught to make attractive displays of those rocks - and given access to the equipment with which to do this, that gets better results. If those kids (and let's not forget the adults) can learn how to turn their finds into jewelry they can wear, sell, or give to others, so much the better. The Mobile Gem and Mineral Club has a Junior Rockhound club. They have some of their own equipment, and have special days where they get exclusive use of the club's equipment. They have their own field trips, too. So, the natural question is: "Do we have minority members as a result?" The answer is, "No". But this is due to the fact that our junior rock-hound are children of the adult members, or friends of those children. To be fair, we do have some Asian members. Well, this is getting lengthy, and maybe I'm rambling too much. Lot of things on my mind, sorry. I'll try to be more concise. Point 2: I grew up in a small town just outside of Mobile. I was in the Science Club, etc. Yet I never knew until last year that the Mobile Rock and Gem Club existed back then. Why, do you imagine, was that? It's because we don't go out into the schools. We don't do demos in the Malls. We aren't really geared to recruit, and we are not set up for rapid growth. I think we are afraid of it. Point 3: Lapidary equipment and field trips get expensive, fast. Yes, a lot can be done with a little, and there are ways of minimizing expenses. But there is no emphasis within the clubs to point this out, or to promote it. Point 4: Most grade schools spend next to zero (time or money) on the science of geology. How else is a person going to find out that rocks are fascinating? How many of you were introduced to a fine micromount collection; witnessed a first-class gem and mineral collection; got to see minerals fluoresce up close and personal; had someone take you outside and use photos and the natural surroundings to reveal the geologic history of your home town or state? Point 5: Following up on Point 3, until quite recently most minorities didn't have the wealth to get involved in our hobby, even when their imaginations became fired up. While the wealth situation is changing, it is being spent primarily in those areas promoted by TV advertisement. There's a lot more I could say, but maybe that's enough for starters. I do have a number of suggestions on how folks might encourage membersip to grow. Neal Hazen Neal Hazen "Some people learn through reading. A few others learn by observation. Most of us have to pee on the electric fence for ourselves." Will Rogers --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From bova at mindspring.com Wed Jul 20 20:52:45 2005 From: bova at mindspring.com (Carol J. Bova) Date: Wed Jul 20 20:52:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: (Announcement) Eclectic Lapidary offline for a few days Message-ID: Hi Folks, Just to let anyone who can't reach us at bovagems.com or eclecticlapidary.com that we are in the middle of moving our California location and our servers, and our plans to overlap service and only be out a day at the most... fell through. The current DSL providers missed the change order and shut down the service today instead of next Monday, and the new provider isn't sure whether they can move up their start date. So.. our apologies to anyone who is inconvenienced in not being able to access the sites, and our apologies to anyone who isn't interested in this message. *smiles to all* Carol Carol J. Bova The Eclectic Lapidary From geenet2 at mchsi.com Wed Jul 20 20:57:10 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Wed Jul 20 20:57:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Minorities, and growth of the hobby References: <20050721034432.10572.qmail@web30907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008201c58da8$45adb000$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Absolutely great points Neal! Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neal Hazen" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 10:44 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Minorities, and growth of the hobby >I found the questions of minorities in rock-hounding, and concern over >declining interest in the hobby interesting. From jabac at hal-pc.org Thu Jul 21 10:58:49 2005 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Thu Jul 21 10:57:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Goodbye and have fun In-Reply-To: <20050719012550.3C027E5BC7@ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20050719012550.3C027E5BC7@ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <1121968729.4880.3.camel@localhost> On Tue, 2005-07-19 at 01:25 +0000, rain forest wrote: > I can no longer participate at a site where certain people are lionized. I was chastised by a member for trying to share some collecting fun. I will not name names, but in my heart, I'm saddened by the actions of this supposed rockhound. I thought I had a friend but he was more interested in his own personal gratification. He went over the edge withouth knowing the facts. > > I will say I have enjoyed most of the banter and fun here; that is what rockhounding is supposed to be about. To one and all; Enjoy the pleasures that this hobby offers and don't become so self centered that to forget that the earth gives up what in the end she will take. > > David Bese > The Rainforest Hippie > Pt. Orchard, Wa. Hey, Dave. Don't give up because a few of us are total boors. There is a gentleman here in Houston who had a radio talk show, and he always ended it with some very sage advice: "Don't let ANYONE steal you joy!" Think about it; we need you. john From jabac at hal-pc.org Thu Jul 21 11:01:14 2005 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Thu Jul 21 10:59:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] rockhounding near Houston, Gee etc In-Reply-To: <20050719023612.31464.qmail@web34209.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050719023612.31464.qmail@web34209.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1121968874.4880.5.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2005-07-18 at 19:36 -0700, mp44sturm-rocks@yahoo.com wrote: > J.R., > > Nope, I don't have any relatives in West Virginia. My > father emigrated from China in 1948 shortly after the > Communists came into power--Dad was on the "wrong > side". This sounds like good information to follow up > on. The Whiskey Bridge site near College Station > sounds like it's worth going to with young ones. > Thanks! > > Sandra. The Houston Gem & Mineral Society has periodic field trips to this site. Look on their website for a guide to the fossils found there, and more information. john From tecrump at tgeresources.com Thu Jul 21 12:26:31 2005 From: tecrump at tgeresources.com (Tim Crump) Date: Thu Jul 21 12:22:39 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] rockhounding near Houston, Gee etc In-Reply-To: <1121968874.4880.5.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <000001c58e2a$195be2b0$2200000a@TGE05> The Houston Geologic Society (www.hgs.org) has some nice information available on collecting fossils at the Whiskey Bridge location. Look at their previous trips page. I've been once and easily collected a fair number of nice specimens. However, the fossils are weathering out of a shale layer on the river bank and it can be quite slippery. Also, if the water level is up, it'll be inaccessible. Good luck! Timothy E. Crump, C.P.G. Project Manager TGE Resources, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of john Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 12:01 PM To: mp44sturm-rocks@yahoo.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] rockhounding near Houston, Gee etc On Mon, 2005-07-18 at 19:36 -0700, mp44sturm-rocks@yahoo.com wrote: > J.R., > > Nope, I don't have any relatives in West Virginia. My > father emigrated from China in 1948 shortly after the Communists came > into power--Dad was on the "wrong side". This sounds like good > information to follow up on. The Whiskey Bridge site near College > Station sounds like it's worth going to with young ones. > Thanks! > > Sandra. The Houston Gem & Mineral Society has periodic field trips to this site. Look on their website for a guide to the fossils found there, and more information. john _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From JScully216 at aol.com Thu Jul 21 13:44:24 2005 From: JScully216 at aol.com (JScully216@aol.com) Date: Thu Jul 21 13:44:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] How do you Stake A Claim? Message-ID: You can stake claims in national forest land that is not set aside for wilderness areas. BLM handles all claims for public lands, including the forest service. (-: In a message dated 7/18/2005 6:53:02 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, morningstar@att.net writes: Hi, I'm not sure if you can stake a claim in NH, but I'm familiar with staking BLM land, and here is the BLM page: http://www.blm.gov/nhp/index.htm Sorry my time is extremely limited right now, or else I'd do some more searching for you. Since NH, as far as I know, has no BLM land, any mining must be carried out differently than the methods listed above. There is probably a state geological survey or natural resources office you can contact. Fortunately, Idaho is one of the remaining states where you can stake a claim on BLM land (presuming you have done your research and are not jumping someone else's claim and getting yourself shot and so forth). It's actually very easy to stake a claim on open BLM land; my friend Bill Gardner, of the Purple Passion Claim fame (known for multi-colored multi-wavelength fluorescent minerals) has several in Arizona. I really hope someone else from the list can help with your particular situation, but if not, I think I've given you some clues to get started in NH. Back to packing, Don -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Joe Mulvey > Does anyone know the process for a person to stake a claim? > Reading John's Rat's Nest report makes me wonder if this is > something worth looking into up here in New Hampshire. > Regards, > Joe > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________ > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Jul 21 15:45:36 2005 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Thu Jul 21 15:47:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Montana Trip References: Message-ID: <001d01c58e45$ee440550$12b4010a@warren> John and I are going to Montana on the 29th of July for about ten days. His sister lives on a very large ranch near Grassrange, Montana, and we've found good sites very near there during previous visits. On the way back to Santa, Idaho, though, we're dropping down from Bozeman to Butte to Crystal Park (we think...lol), then eventually, back to the Santa, Idaho area, which is 75 miles or so south of Coeur d'Alene, Idaho. Does anyone know of any interesting areas for that Grassrange-(which is near Lewiston)-Bozeman-Butte-Idaho route? (Besides Crystal Park, that is...the last time we were there was in our first months of rockhounding, we had NO tools, NO idea what we were doing, and were utterly delighted with the coating of adequate crystals on the ground glittering in the sun...lol) Thanks! Julie From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Jul 21 15:57:53 2005 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Thu Jul 21 15:59:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Montana Trip - P.S. References: <001d01c58e45$ee440550$12b4010a@warren> Message-ID: <002201c58e47$a78439d0$12b4010a@warren> We have the original versino of Feldman's book, The Rockhound's Guide to Montana, but I see there is a more recent version available now. Does anyone know if the new version has a base map? The version that we have is sort of difficult to use without it. Thanks, Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie Siebel" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 3:45 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Montana Trip > John and I are going to Montana on the 29th of July for about ten days. > His sister lives on a very large ranch near Grassrange, Montana, and we've > found good sites very near there during previous visits. On the way back > to Santa, Idaho, though, we're dropping down from Bozeman to Butte to > Crystal Park (we think...lol), then eventually, back to the Santa, Idaho > area, which is 75 miles or so south of Coeur d'Alene, Idaho. Does anyone > know of any interesting areas for that Grassrange-(which is near > Lewiston)-Bozeman-Butte-Idaho route? (Besides Crystal Park, that is...the > last time we were there was in our first months of rockhounding, we had NO > tools, NO idea what we were doing, and were utterly delighted with the > coating of adequate crystals on the ground glittering in the sun...lol) > > Thanks! > > Julie > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jaybates at rcn.com Thu Jul 21 16:13:59 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Thu Jul 21 16:12:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Montana Trip - P.S. References: <001d01c58e45$ee440550$12b4010a@warren> <002201c58e47$a78439d0$12b4010a@warren> Message-ID: <000c01c58e49$e0b14d40$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> I have one published in 1985 and the maps are primative line drawings. I doubt the later version has changed. It seems once these things are published, there are very little changes. Places to go: Gem Mountain for sapphires, garnets pay for screening near Nevada City. Should be fossils and pet wood in coulees near Grassrange. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie Siebel" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 3:57 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Montana Trip - P.S. > We have the original versino of Feldman's book, The Rockhound's Guide to > Montana, but I see there is a more recent version available now. Does anyone > know if the new version has a base map? The version that we have is sort of > difficult to use without it. > > Thanks, > > Julie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Julie Siebel" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 3:45 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Montana Trip > > > > John and I are going to Montana on the 29th of July for about ten days. > > His sister lives on a very large ranch near Grassrange, Montana, and we've > > found good sites very near there during previous visits. On the way back > > to Santa, Idaho, though, we're dropping down from Bozeman to Butte to > > Crystal Park (we think...lol), then eventually, back to the Santa, Idaho > > area, which is 75 miles or so south of Coeur d'Alene, Idaho. Does anyone > > know of any interesting areas for that Grassrange-(which is near > > Lewiston)-Bozeman-Butte-Idaho route? (Besides Crystal Park, that is...the > > last time we were there was in our first months of rockhounding, we had NO > > tools, NO idea what we were doing, and were utterly delighted with the > > coating of adequate crystals on the ground glittering in the sun...lol) > > > > Thanks! > > > > Julie > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.9.2/54 - Release Date: 7/21/05 > > From jaybates at rcn.com Thu Jul 21 16:17:41 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Thu Jul 21 16:15:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Montana Trip - P.S. References: <001d01c58e45$ee440550$12b4010a@warren><002201c58e47$a78439d0$12b4010a@warren> <000c01c58e49$e0b14d40$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <000701c58e4a$652e89c0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Here is copy of my trip report for the Montana trip I just finished: http://mcrocks.com/ftr/BatesJune05.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Montana Trip - P.S. > I have one published in 1985 and the maps are primative line drawings. I > doubt the later version has changed. It seems once these things are > published, there are very little changes. Places to go: Gem Mountain for > sapphires, garnets pay for screening near Nevada City. Should be fossils and > pet wood in coulees near Grassrange. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Julie Siebel" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 3:57 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Montana Trip - P.S. > > > > We have the original versino of Feldman's book, The Rockhound's Guide to > > Montana, but I see there is a more recent version available now. Does > anyone > > know if the new version has a base map? The version that we have is sort > of > > difficult to use without it. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Julie > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Julie Siebel" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 3:45 PM > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Montana Trip > > > > > > > John and I are going to Montana on the 29th of July for about ten days. > > > His sister lives on a very large ranch near Grassrange, Montana, and > we've > > > found good sites very near there during previous visits. On the way back > > > to Santa, Idaho, though, we're dropping down from Bozeman to Butte to > > > Crystal Park (we think...lol), then eventually, back to the Santa, Idaho > > > area, which is 75 miles or so south of Coeur d'Alene, Idaho. Does anyone > > > know of any interesting areas for that Grassrange-(which is near > > > Lewiston)-Bozeman-Butte-Idaho route? (Besides Crystal Park, that > is...the > > > last time we were there was in our first months of rockhounding, we had > NO > > > tools, NO idea what we were doing, and were utterly delighted with the > > > coating of adequate crystals on the ground glittering in the sun...lol) > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > Julie > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.9.2/54 - Release Date: 7/21/05 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.9.2/54 - Release Date: 7/21/05 > > From teyancey at mail.tca.net Thu Jul 21 16:24:36 2005 From: teyancey at mail.tca.net (Thomas Yancey) Date: Thu Jul 21 16:24:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Laytonville Longvale quarry, California query In-Reply-To: <20050720185524.86928.qmail@web51002.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050720185524.86928.qmail@web51002.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jim, Thanks for the suggestion. I do have access to Bull. 190, but I did not see anything specific to the Laytonville Longvale quarry. The site exposes large blocks of sediment that were subducted and incompletely metamorphosed, hence the odd mineral assemblage in rocks of the quarry. The assemblage with deerite, howieite and zussmanite and their associates are not the typical blueschist facies suite. Tom Y >Tom, >Do you have the paper by Chesterman that was part of >Geology of Northern California- Field Guide Bull. 190, >Mineral Information Services, California Div. of Mines >& Geology? It may shed some light on the problem. If >you don't have it, I can send you a copy. >Regards, >Jim Daly >Sauktown Sales > >--- Thomas Yancey wrote: > >> Over the past year or so, a couple people have asked >> questions about >> the minerals present in the Longvale quarry at >> Laytonville, >> California, which is the type locality for deerite, >> howieite and >> zussmanite. Samples of rock from this quarry are > > available from snip -- Thomas Yancey From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Thu Jul 21 18:34:31 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Thu Jul 21 18:34:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Minorities, and growth of the hobby References: <20050721034432.10572.qmail@web30907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007901c58e5d$8255a200$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Our geology group has had African American members off and on over the years, typically a single person or couple. Currently we have an "on" year and the couple is pretty active. We've had the occasional Asian, but not Hispanics that I recall. We have a variety of minorities at our show, not large numbers, but they are around. Our show is at a hotel near the airport and state fair grounds which has the North American Livestock Show at the same time. So we get some out-of-town rancher/farmers and their families who happen to be staying at the hotel or see the show on the motel marquee. Are they interested? Probably. We get a lot of minorities at our park, which showcases 400 million years of history. They go down and walk the fossil beds. They spend money in our gift shop, although that may be a post card more than a specimen. Demographically, the minorities as a group will become the majority by 2030 across the country. If the geology clubs don't actively recruit minority members, they will eventually atrophy and become as extinct as the fossils we collect. There aren't a lot of groups that actively seek out minority members. And some don't go after ANY new members. Does the American Federation have a committee on address this issue? Our club recruits new members during the club show and the Falls Fossil Festival at the Falls of the Ohio State Park. I don't know if they have tried putting an ad in the Louisville Defender newspaper, but the club's promotional budget is small and they usually shoot for a small ad in the Courier Journal - by far the largest newspaper circulating in the region. Naturally recruiting is only part of the battle. Keeping new members is another real challenge. Sometimes engaging programs are hard to scrounge up. With the show in November, meetings are before Thanksgiving and Christmas, which means its hard to get these folks to the meetings until January. Of course the weather is not so great, so it may be March before you can get them to come back (or participate in field trips). That's 25% of the year shot... New members? If they are REALLY interested, we might see them occasionally from November - February. If we can get them excited with good programs and field trips from March through the summer, they are going to be history. It is literally up to us - current members - to keep clubs growing. We can't sit around and moan about it. We have to do something ourselves. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neal Hazen" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 11:44 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Minorities, and growth of the hobby >I found the questions of minorities in rock-hounding, and concern over >declining interest in the hobby interesting. I am a retired science >teacher, and for many years I dealt with at-risk, inner city kids. Living >on the Gulf Coast, it's a long trip to anywhere there is decent >rock-hounding. At least that's what I thought until recently. Until I >joined the Mobile Rock and Gem Society I had no idea that some nice agate >could be collected less than 70 miles from town. Had I known that back >when... Well, anyway, that's one of the things it takes to get minorities >and new members, period, interested in the hobby. Someone who is interested >in rocks and fossils, with knowledge of the area, has to let kids ans well >as adults know what's out there. > Next, you have to show them what uses their finds can be put to. Now, many > minority kids are not going to be interested for too long in having a > bunch of rocks cluttering up the shelves of their bedroom, or piled up in > boxes in the closet. If they are taught to make attractive displays of > those rocks - and given access to the equipment with which to do this, > that gets better results. If those kids (and let's not forget the adults) > can learn how to turn their finds into jewelry they can wear, sell, or > give to others, so much the better. The Mobile Gem and Mineral Club has a > Junior Rockhound club. They have some of their own equipment, and have > special days where they get exclusive use of the club's equipment. They > have their own field trips, too. > So, the natural question is: "Do we have minority members as a result?" > The answer is, "No". But this is due to the fact that our junior > rock-hound are children of the adult members, or friends of those > children. To be fair, we do have some Asian members. > Well, this is getting lengthy, and maybe I'm rambling too much. Lot of > things on my mind, sorry. I'll try to be more concise. > Point 2: I grew up in a small town just outside of Mobile. I was in the > Science Club, etc. Yet I never knew until last year that the Mobile Rock > and Gem Club existed back then. Why, do you imagine, was that? It's > because we don't go out into the schools. We don't do demos in the Malls. > We aren't really geared to recruit, and we are not set up for rapid > growth. I think we are afraid of it. > Point 3: Lapidary equipment and field trips get expensive, fast. Yes, a > lot can be done with a little, and there are ways of minimizing expenses. > But there is no emphasis within the clubs to point this out, or to promote > it. > Point 4: Most grade schools spend next to zero (time or money) on the > science of geology. How else is a person going to find out that rocks are > fascinating? How many of you were introduced to a fine micromount > collection; witnessed a first-class gem and mineral collection; got to see > minerals fluoresce up close and personal; had someone take you outside and > use photos and the natural surroundings to reveal the geologic history of > your home town or state? > Point 5: Following up on Point 3, until quite recently most minorities > didn't have the wealth to get involved in our hobby, even when their > imaginations became fired up. While the wealth situation is changing, it > is being spent primarily in those areas promoted by TV advertisement. > There's a lot more I could say, but maybe that's enough for starters. I do > have a number of suggestions on how folks might encourage membersip to > grow. > > Neal Hazen > > > > Neal Hazen > > "Some people learn through reading. A few others learn by observation. > Most of us have to pee on the electric fence for ourselves." > Will Rogers > > --------------------------------- > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From ljwill at directcon.net Thu Jul 21 19:02:40 2005 From: ljwill at directcon.net (Williams) Date: Thu Jul 21 19:02:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Laytonville Longvale quarry, California query References: <20050720185524.86928.qmail@web51002.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003001c58e61$74321ba0$76d04fd1@Williams> Tom, Sorry it took me so long to get back to you--I have been on a 2 week field trip of my own. Laytonville Quarry is different then most others that have these minerals. The Mendocino coast has what is called a Fransican formation that is made up---in this quarry- of Glaucophane that becones the base of Schist. Glaucophane is a blueish brown here. I have not seen Aegrine here and have my doubts that it is there. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Yancey" To: Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 4:24 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Laytonville Longvale quarry, California query > Jim, > Thanks for the suggestion. I do have access to Bull. 190, but I did not > see anything specific to the Laytonville Longvale quarry. The site exposes > large blocks of sediment that were subducted and incompletely > metamorphosed, hence the odd mineral assemblage in rocks of the quarry. > The assemblage with deerite, howieite and zussmanite and their associates > are not the typical blueschist facies suite. > > Tom Y > > >>Tom, >>Do you have the paper by Chesterman that was part of >>Geology of Northern California- Field Guide Bull. 190, >>Mineral Information Services, California Div. of Mines >>& Geology? It may shed some light on the problem. If >>you don't have it, I can send you a copy. >>Regards, >>Jim Daly >>Sauktown Sales >> >>--- Thomas Yancey wrote: >> >>> Over the past year or so, a couple people have asked >>> questions about >>> the minerals present in the Longvale quarry at >>> Laytonville, >>> California, which is the type locality for deerite, >>> howieite and >>> zussmanite. Samples of rock from this quarry are >> > available from > > snip > > > -- > Thomas Yancey > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From roughrock at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 19:31:56 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Thu Jul 21 19:32:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Minorities, and growth of the hobby In-Reply-To: <007901c58e5d$8255a200$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> References: <20050721034432.10572.qmail@web30907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <007901c58e5d$8255a200$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: On 7/21/05, Alan Goldstein wrote: > I don't know if they have > tried putting an ad in the Louisville Defender newspaper, but the club's > promotional budget is small and they usually shoot for a small ad in the > Courier Journal - by far the largest newspaper circulating in the region. > > Alan, A well-written press release goes into the paper for free. (and you write well) My experience is with concerts and amateur and Citizen Band radio groups, but if it's interesting, newspapers are glad to have it. Find an interesting photo to go with it and you can almost guarantee they will print it. They use it to fill in around news and ads so it is good to be brief and send it in early. Grant Johnston, KG6JJZ From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Thu Jul 21 20:03:47 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Thu Jul 21 20:03:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Minorities, and growth of the hobby References: <20050721034432.10572.qmail@web30907.mail.mud.yahoo.com><007901c58e5d$8255a200$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <008601c58e69$fad572d0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> We are quite adept at media releases. But our club also buys ad space. Just because you submit a release doesn't mean they will use it or place it in a prominent place. With ads, you are guarenteed to get what you pay for. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Johnston" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 10:31 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Minorities, and growth of the hobby > On 7/21/05, Alan Goldstein wrote: >> I don't know if they have >> tried putting an ad in the Louisville Defender newspaper, but the club's >> promotional budget is small and they usually shoot for a small ad in the >> Courier Journal - by far the largest newspaper circulating in the region. >> >> > Alan, > > A well-written press release goes into the paper for free. (and you > write well) My experience is with concerts and amateur and Citizen > Band radio groups, but if it's interesting, newspapers are glad to > have it. Find an interesting photo to go with it and you can almost > guarantee they will print it. They use it to fill in around news and > ads so it is good to be brief and send it in early. > > Grant Johnston, KG6JJZ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Tourmalineminer at aol.com Thu Jul 21 20:22:58 2005 From: Tourmalineminer at aol.com (Tourmalineminer@aol.com) Date: Thu Jul 21 20:23:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, How to stake a claim Message-ID: <155.54f2f016.3011c092@aol.com> Hi, the 1872 mining laws only apply to lands in the Western States where the minerals are owned by the United States and not privately owned and also where the land has not been withdrawn from mining location by some act of congress such as military bases, wilderness areas, public collecting set aside areas etc etc. For some reason, these laws also apply to Arkansas. Each state has different rules governing the staking and locating of mining claims but they basically require you to post the claim on the ground and have a location monument describing the claim and also filing a notice of location with the county recorder as well as the State office of the BLM depending on which state you are in. A mining claim is not considered valid until an actually discovery of minerals is found that can be mined at a profit....(this is called the prudent man rule). Once a valid discovery has been made and of course assuming that the land was open to location and not already claimed....(some people dont seem to care about that part which can lead to nasty lawsuits) then the claimant owns the mineral rights to that land for as long as he maintains the claim. Hope that helps. Chris Rose --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dawnmfredricks at msn.com Thu Jul 21 20:50:21 2005 From: dawnmfredricks at msn.com (Dawn M. Fredricks) Date: Thu Jul 21 20:50:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Minorities, and growth of the hobby Message-ID: Our club , Northwest Mineral Prospectors Club, was mainly gold miners for many years. Guys who dredge, sluice, panned and highbanked. When I joined 7 or 8 years ago, I was the minority, as I was the woman who joined and her hubby was the one that sat up in camp talking to all the women! We discovered that many of us had other interests besides the cold water here in Oregon and started to diverse! Mineral Prospectors means just that and we started to include rockhounding, metal detecting, meteor hunting and other interests to our list. Up until last year our club had very few new members joining. Our current club president started a "special" at the Sportsman show here in Portland last year and we were thrilled with about 15 new members. It took us 5 years to get that many members prior to that show. We really pushed this year at the show and have added about 100 members this year. We have a gold panning booth at this show (yes we make sure all the kids walk away with real gold), we also sell panning kits, books, panning supplies and pretty rocks. If they live outside Portland, we refer them to another club that might be closer to them. All the kids that visit our booth leave with a free coloring book we get free from a Canadian mining compay. Our big show is the Pacific Northwest Sportsman Show but we also do several smaller events, local "your town here" Days, smaller county fairs without the rides types of shows, and 2 years ago we went to AgFest in Salem Oregon (a farm/agriculture show), we've done a Boy Scout camp, jr. high science class panning demo, and any other venue that is relatively inexpensive for us to get into. We let everyone know that we are a family oriented club and we camp as a group 3 times a year on one of our 6 club claims. We potluck, karaoke, have a metal detecting contestand rubber duckie race at each of these outings and sometimes partake in adult beverages . We try to make it fun for everyone. We even invite people out before they join to try us out! We've gone from about 25 to 30 at out camping outing to 60 to 75 at Memorial Day this year. We see alot of Hispanic folks at the Sportsman show, they seem to enjoy hunting, fishing, camping and outdoors in general. We don't see many African Americans, the few we've seen seem to be into hunting. We have a very large Russian population in Portland but don't see any of these folks out at the shows or out camping. We rarely see Asian folks We even have a few single women as members now!. We haven't specifically reached out to minorities to join, but when we do have the chance to talk with them we do encourage everyone to join, no matter what gender, race, etc. they are.  I can't tell you what a difference it has made to have new members join our club, our "core group" that makes everything happen was getting burned out.  Dawn Fredricks Portland Oregon >From: "Alan Goldstein" <deepskyspy@insightbb.com> >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors"<rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > >Our geology group has had African American members off and on over >the years, typically a single person or couple. Currently we have an >"on" year and the couple is pretty active. We've had the occasional >Asian, but not Hispanics that I recall. We have a variety of >minorities at our show, not large numbers, but they are around. Our --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Jul 21 21:08:16 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Jul 21 21:08:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Terminology Question??? References: <071820050531.9989.42DB3EA500003F1A00002705216038311607059C0A9D0B010306AF@att.net> Message-ID: <42E0712D.34DC@Tomaszewski.net> Timm, I've got a specimen like that too. Elbaite over Rubellite makes 'watermelon tourmaline'. But I've never heard of a name for Elbaite over Schorl. We could call Elbaite over Schorl 'watermelon seed tourmaline'. Kreigh Pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > No special name for this that I ever heard of. There's a lot of zoning in all kinds of tourmaline, and I wouldn't be surprised to see something like this. > > Pete > > -------------- Original message from MCGINNISG@aol.com: -------------- > > > Is there a special name for elbaite crystals with schorl centers? > > Timm From kahako at verizon.net Fri Jul 22 00:17:00 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Jul 22 00:17:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Minorities, and growth of the hobby In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050721211317.03e22e40@incoming.verizon.net> Dawn, what a wonderful report on your club and activities! I started to try to trim your message down to the essentials to respond to, but it all was so useful, I gave up.. Great ideas. Thanks. Aloha, Kitty At 05:50 PM 7/21/2005, Dawn Fredricks wrote: >Our club , Northwest Mineral Prospectors Club, was mainly gold miners for >many years. Guys who dredge, sluice, panned and highbanked. When I >joined 7 or 8 years ago, I was the minority, as I was the woman who joined >and her hubby was the one that sat up in camp talking to all the >women! We discovered that many of us had other interests besides the cold >water here in Oregon and started to diverse! Mineral Prospectors means >just that and we started to include rockhounding, metal detecting, meteor >hunting and other interests to our list. >Up until last year our club had very few new members joining. Our current >club president started a "special" at the Sportsman show here in Portland >last year and we were thrilled with about 15 new members. It took us 5 >years to get that many members prior to that show. We really pushed this >year at the show and have added about 100 members this year. We have a >gold panning booth at this show (yes we make sure all the kids walk away >with real gold), we also sell panning kits, books, panning supplies and >pretty rocks. If they live outside Portland, we refer them to another >club that might be closer to them. All the kids that visit our booth >leave with a free coloring book we get free from a Canadian mining compay. >Our big show is the Pacific Northwest Sportsman Show but we also do >several smaller events, local "your town here" Days, smaller county fairs >without the rides types of shows, and 2 years ago we went to AgFest in >Salem Oregon (a farm/agriculture show), we've done a Boy Scout camp, jr. >high science class panning demo, and any other venue that is relatively >inexpensive for us to get into. >We let everyone know that we are a family oriented club and we camp as a >group 3 times a year on one of our 6 club claims. We potluck, karaoke, >have a metal detecting contestand rubber duckie race at each of these >outings and sometimes partake in adult beverages . We try to make it fun >for everyone. We even invite people out before they join to try us out! >We've gone from about 25 to 30 at out camping outing to 60 to 75 at >Memorial Day this year. >We see alot of Hispanic folks at the Sportsman show, they seem to enjoy >hunting, fishing, camping and outdoors in general. We don't see many >African Americans, the few we've seen seem to be into hunting. We have a >very large Russian population in Portland but don't see any of these folks >out at the shows or out camping. We rarely see Asian folks We even have a >few single women as members now!. >We haven't specifically reached out to minorities to join, but when we do >have the chance to talk with them we do encourage everyone to join, no >matter what gender, race, etc. they are.  >I can't tell you what a difference it has made to have new members join >our club, our "core group" that makes everything happen was getting burned out. From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Jul 22 08:39:00 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Jul 22 08:38:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Terminology Question??? In-Reply-To: <42E0712D.34DC@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Hi Kreigh (and everybody else ;-))) Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that rubellite is not a mineral name but rather an undetermined pink or red tourmaline, probably elbaite. So is verdelite, the green variety. I may be wrong but aren't watermelon tourmalines elbaite through and through? I had to deal with this nomenclature issue a lot when photographing and labeling specimens from Brazil and Afghanistan. On some of those Afghan specimens you'll find the pink and the green elbaite together. The pink stuff fluoresces nearly always, the green stuff (to my knowledge) never. The fluorescent color under my TripleBright SW looks a lot like that of benitoite or dumortierite... I should sacrifice a specimen to see if there's any Ti4+ present. Maybe this fall... Cheers Axel (on topic for a change! Somebody wave a flag and sing hallelujah, hurry!) -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski Verzonden: vrijdag 22 juli 2005 6:08 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Terminology Question??? Timm, I've got a specimen like that too. Elbaite over Rubellite makes 'watermelon tourmaline'. But I've never heard of a name for Elbaite over Schorl. We could call Elbaite over Schorl 'watermelon seed tourmaline'. Kreigh Pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > No special name for this that I ever heard of. There's a lot of zoning in all kinds of tourmaline, and I wouldn't be surprised to see something like this. > > Pete > > -------------- Original message from MCGINNISG@aol.com: -------------- > > > Is there a special name for elbaite crystals with schorl centers? > > Timm _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Fri Jul 22 08:40:29 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Fri Jul 22 08:40:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Montana Trip In-Reply-To: <001d01c58e45$ee440550$12b4010a@warren> References: <001d01c58e45$ee440550$12b4010a@warren> Message-ID: <42E1136D.4030807@tenforward.com> Hi Julie, As additional literature, I have The Gem, Mineral & Fossil Collector's Guide to Montana Vol. 1 by Lanny Ream, when available, the price was $4.95. Twenty one localities and maps. And, Rockin' Around Montana by Phil Walsh and Bob Liffring, when available, the price was $9.95. A site not listed in any book can be found on the road into Wise River from Hwy. 15. At MM 68, right along side the road we been found some very beautiful, delicate yellow aragonite sprays to 4 inches which are highly fluorescent. We worked cavities right on the road from about 6 to 14 feet in height (scuzzy junk) and did our best on the west side of the limestone outcrop. Here a large 5 foot cavity exposed these awesome crystals. According to my field trip journal, I did my best collecting there on 7/18/96 and gave the majority of the 40 specimens I collected away to our group and to a bunch of kids camping (when you could) at Crystal Park. I still have one specimen here in our collection and it is quite attractive to my eye. We did not prospect the area as perhaps we should have and I suspect that other crystal occurrences could be discovered with a bit of effort. Should you go to the Park, don't forget to make time to go to Elk Horn Hot springs, the cold hard ice cream there is just the absolute best! Good luck on your trip, John Julie Siebel wrote: > John and I are going to Montana on the 29th of July for about ten > days. His sister lives on a very large ranch near Grassrange, Montana, > and we've found good sites very near there during previous visits. On > the way back to Santa, Idaho, though, we're dropping down from Bozeman > to Butte to Crystal Park (we think...lol), then eventually, back to > the Santa, Idaho area, which is 75 miles or so south of Coeur d'Alene, > Idaho. Does anyone know of any interesting areas for that > Grassrange-(which is near Lewiston)-Bozeman-Butte-Idaho route? > (Besides Crystal Park, that is...the last time we were there was in > our first months of rockhounding, we had NO tools, NO idea what we > were doing, and were utterly delighted with the coating of adequate > crystals on the ground glittering in the sun...lol) > > Thanks! > > Julie > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From Paintricks at aol.com Fri Jul 22 11:31:56 2005 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Fri Jul 22 11:32:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] North east texas arrowhead locals? Know of any? Jacksonville gold locations? Message-ID: <20e.56994e4.3012959c@aol.com> Hello everyone, I live in Northeast Texas around wood county and was wondering if anyone knows of arrowhead locations along the rivers and stream beds and could direct me to some of them. Also,.. I was reading that a man found gold dust just North above the Jacksonville Tx. We are predominantly iron ore based here and I know that "gold" is scarce but it may have some occurrences in this type of area. This is just a rumor to me so far but you never know. Would love to hear of information of this area on anything about it's geology if anyone can help me. Thanks in advance, Kevin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From darold593 at hotmail.com Fri Jul 22 17:16:16 2005 From: darold593 at hotmail.com (dg martin) Date: Fri Jul 22 17:16:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Highway 93 trip Message-ID: Greetings all: I've been a lunker for some time now and I've finally gotten around to introducing myself. I've recently retired from the Army/ Forest Service/private industry/etc. I've re-awakened my long dormant interest in rocks and minerals. I grew up in Colorado during the 50's and 60's and spent a lot of time collecting in the Devil's Head area (topaz, quartz crystals, amazonite), as well as collecting the stream beds around Denver and south and east(mostly petrafied wood and agate). Now I'm in south central Arizona where collecting out on the desert is rather foolhardy this time of year. (It's been 105 to 115 everyday for the last 4 to 6 weeks with no break in sight.) We've desided to take a trip that we last took in 1973. We are going to drive the full length of US 93 from it's begining in Wickenburg Arizona to its end on the Canadian line in Eureka, Montana (my wife's home town). I would like to do some collecting on this trip if possible. The only reference I have for outside Arizona is "Roadside Geology for the Northern Rockies" 1972 edition. There are a few possible locations listed for Idaho but the information is really too general for the amount of time we'll have to spent there looking. Does anyone have any suggestions as to collecting locations in Nevada, Idaho and Montana along or near US 93? We would greatly appreciate any help anyone can give. Thanks in advance, Darold _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Fri Jul 22 15:49:44 2005 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Fri Jul 22 17:50:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Montana Trip - P.S. References: <001d01c58e45$ee440550$12b4010a@warren><002201c58e47$a78439d0$12b4010a@warren><000c01c58e49$e0b14d40$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <000701c58e4a$652e89c0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <002e01c58f0f$acc1f180$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Jay, Thanks for the info. We really enjoyed your trip report although I gotta ask. You say that, "The Missouri Breaks...has been a refuge for outlaws, hermits and other social misfits." Including rockhounds? Thanks again! John & Julie Siebel ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" > Here is copy of my trip report for the Montana trip I just finished: > http://mcrocks.com/ftr/BatesJune05.html From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Fri Jul 22 15:56:00 2005 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Fri Jul 22 17:56:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Montana Trip References: <001d01c58e45$ee440550$12b4010a@warren> <42E1136D.4030807@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <003901c58f10$8cc9a0c0$6400a8c0@mshome.net> John, Thank for your always valuable input. We expect to hit Crystal Park so we'll schedule some prospecting time along Wise River. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John and Gloria Cornish" > A site not listed in any book can be found on the road into Wise River From kward at themineralgallery.com Fri Jul 22 18:07:06 2005 From: kward at themineralgallery.com (kward) Date: Fri Jul 22 18:07:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Montana Trip In-Reply-To: <003901c58f10$8cc9a0c0$6400a8c0@mshome.net> References: <001d01c58e45$ee440550$12b4010a@warren> <42E1136D.4030807@tenforward.com> <003901c58f10$8cc9a0c0$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20050722200435.02bf5268@themineralgallery.com> If you go to Crystal Park, don't forget the bug repellent. The horse flies are really bad there in the summer time. A sifting screen is also good. Kevin At 05:56 PM 7/22/2005, you wrote: >John, > >Thank for your always valuable input. We expect to hit Crystal Park so we'll >schedule some prospecting time along Wise River. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John and Gloria Cornish" > > A site not listed in any book can be found on the road into Wise River > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds The Mineral Gallery and Auction http://www.themineralgallery.com http://www.exceptionalminerals.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Fri Jul 22 18:18:33 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Jul 22 18:18:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Highway 93 trip In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050722180356.02488f80@mail.spiritone.com> I suggest the Nevada falcon guide. There is a lot to dig around Jackpot (i.e. Rabbit Spring, Texas Spring), Elko, and areas along 93 N of Elko. There is a restricted-access leaf quarry at Elko that you can dig with permission of the local museum (I did so with the local club about 7 years ago). There really isn't anything worth stopping for in Idaho on 93 (sorry Lanny), unless you want to detour along 75 (prettier, by far!) and try to find the thundereggs along Herd Creek (E Fk Salmon R) that I found cores from at the mouth of the creek a few years ago. There is *some* material along 93 N of Craters of the Moon on Arco Peak, but I was there about 15 years ago and was not impressed. Google for it; there is a site out there (Dixie's Rocks?) with info on the area. There are zeolites along Warm Spring Cr. but they are either claimed or so-so. At 05:16 PM 7/22/2005, you wrote: >Greetings all: > >I've been a lunker for some time now and I've finally gotten around to >introducing myself. I've recently retired from the Army/ Forest >Service/private industry/etc. I've re-awakened my long dormant interest >in rocks and minerals. I grew up in Colorado during the 50's and 60's and >spent a lot of time collecting in the Devil's Head area (topaz, quartz >crystals, amazonite), as well as collecting the stream beds around Denver >and south and east(mostly petrafied wood and agate). Now I'm in south >central Arizona where collecting out on the desert is rather foolhardy >this time of year. (It's been 105 to 115 everyday for the last 4 to 6 >weeks with no break in sight.) > >We've desided to take a trip that we last took in 1973. We are going to >drive the full length of US 93 from it's begining in Wickenburg Arizona to >its end on the Canadian line in Eureka, Montana (my wife's home town). I >would like to do some collecting on this trip if possible. The only >reference I have for outside Arizona is "Roadside Geology for the Northern >Rockies" 1972 edition. There are a few possible locations listed for >Idaho but the information is really too general for the amount of time >we'll have to spent there looking. Does anyone have any suggestions as to >collecting locations in Nevada, Idaho and Montana along or near US 93? We >would greatly appreciate any help anyone can give. Thanks in advance, > >Darold > >_________________________________________________________________ >On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to >get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From beebeebarr at aol.com Fri Jul 22 22:43:01 2005 From: beebeebarr at aol.com (beebeebarr@aol.com) Date: Fri Jul 22 22:43:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Terminology Question??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8C75D6086478171-2C0-2769A@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> Hey, Axel & all, Right you are -- rubellite (red/pink), verdelite (green), indicolite (blue), and achroite (colorless) are old names from before mineralogists figured out the cation substitutions to divide up the tourmaline group into species. Nowadays, gemmologists and the gem trade still use these names because they don't necessarily care what species a stone is, just what color and whether it's a tourmaline. Most gem tourmalines are elbaite, and probably most watermelon crystals, but other species can be gemmy and colorful, notably dravite and liddicoatite. The classic color-zoned tourmaline slices from Madagascar are/were, I believe, often liddicoatite over elbaite, but some show black zones, too, so that could be schorl or maybe foitite. As for fluorescence, besides the Afghan pinks, dravite is often fluorescent in a buttery yellow; this occurs in material from the great Brumada magnesite deposit in Bahia, Brazil, as well as in crystals from Madagascar, somewhere in the Himalayas, and probably elsewhere. Incidentally, gemmologists must not be all bad, because liddicoatite was named by the esteemed mineralogist Pete Dunn after the noted gemmologist Richard Liddicoat. There are some monster liddicoatites coming out of Vietnam now, by the way! Tourmalines -- can't afford 'em, but gotta love 'em! Bill Barr Ann Arbor, Michigan Will Work For Minerals -----Original Message----- From: Axel Emmermann To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 17:39:00 +0200 Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Terminology Question??? Hi Kreigh (and everybody else ;-))) Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that rubellite is not a mineral name but rather an undetermined pink or red tourmaline, probably elbaite. So is verdelite, the green variety. I may be wrong but aren't watermelon tourmalines elbaite through and through? I had to deal with this nomenclature issue a lot when photographing and labeling specimens from Brazil and Afghanistan. On some of those Afghan specimens you'll find the pink and the green elbaite together. The pink stuff fluoresces nearly always, the green stuff (to my knowledge) never. The fluorescent color under my TripleBright SW looks a lot like that of benitoite or dumortierite... I should sacrifice a specimen to see if there's any Ti4+ present. Maybe this fall... Cheers Axel (on topic for a change! Somebody wave a flag and sing hallelujah, hurry!) -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski Verzonden: vrijdag 22 juli 2005 6:08 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Terminology Question??? Timm, I've got a specimen like that too. Elbaite over Rubellite makes 'watermelon tourmaline'. But I've never heard of a name for Elbaite over Schorl. We could call Elbaite over Schorl 'watermelon seed tourmaline'. Kreigh Pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > No special name for this that I ever heard of. There's a lot of zoning in all kinds of tourmaline, and I wouldn't be surprised to see something like this. > > Pete > > -------------- Original message from MCGINNISG@aol.com: -------------- > > > Is there a special name for elbaite crystals with schorl centers? > > Timm _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jaybates at rcn.com Fri Jul 22 22:46:53 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Fri Jul 22 22:45:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Montana Trip - P.S. References: <001d01c58e45$ee440550$12b4010a@warren><002201c58e47$a78439d0$12b4010a@warren><000c01c58e49$e0b14d40$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com><000701c58e4a$652e89c0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <002e01c58f0f$acc1f180$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <000d01c58f49$ee47e1c0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> I sure feel like an outlaw sometimes when as a rockhound you cannot pick up arrowheads or vertebrate fossils. I love the out of way places like the Missouri Breaks or the Steins in Oregon. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Siebel" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Montana Trip - P.S. > Jay, > > Thanks for the info. We really enjoyed your trip report although I gotta > ask. You say that, "The Missouri Breaks...has been a refuge for outlaws, > hermits and other social misfits." > > Including rockhounds? > > Thanks again! > > John & Julie Siebel > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jaybates" > > Here is copy of my trip report for the Montana trip I just finished: > > http://mcrocks.com/ftr/BatesJune05.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.2/55 - Release Date: 7/21/05 > > From darold593 at hotmail.com Sat Jul 23 06:45:01 2005 From: darold593 at hotmail.com (dg martin) Date: Sat Jul 23 06:45:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Highway 93 trip In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050722180356.02488f80@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: >From: Tim Fisher >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Highway 93 trip >Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 18:18:33 -0700 > >I suggest the Nevada falcon guide. There is a lot to dig around Jackpot >(i.e. Rabbit Spring, Texas Spring), Elko, and areas along 93 N of Elko. >There is a restricted-access leaf quarry at Elko that you can dig with >permission of the local museum (I did so with the local club about 7 years >ago). There really isn't anything worth stopping for in Idaho on 93 (sorry >Lanny), unless you want to detour along 75 (prettier, by far!) and try to >find the thundereggs along Herd Creek (E Fk Salmon R) that I found cores >from at the mouth of the creek a few years ago. There is *some* material >along 93 N of Craters of the Moon on Arco Peak, but I was there about 15 >years ago and was not impressed. Google for it; there is a site out there >(Dixie's Rocks?) with info on the area. There are zeolites along Warm >Spring Cr. but they are either claimed or so-so. > Tim, Thanks for the help. I'll check the internet and see what I come up with. We plan on spending a night in the Elko/Jackpot area and maybe around Challis, too. US 75 is the old 93 and 93 from Shoshone to Challis is the old Alt93. (shows you how long it's been since I was up there.) >> >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com >Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Jul 23 09:00:23 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Jul 23 09:00:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Terminology Question??? In-Reply-To: <8C75D6086478171-2C0-2769A@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Bill, >gemmologists must not be all bad Right on, I know a few and I must admit that they have some merits (LOL, borderline ROFL) You don't see many dravite specimens on the market these days. From what I have seen the majority of dravites are the non-fluorescing kind. Probably iron that sneaks in? BTW: are you the same Bill Barr that sent me a package with small mineral samples a few years ago? If so: did you finally get those magazines I sent? I lost your coordinates in a dramatic Dolby surround computer crash (think of it in terms of "Death Star " exploding in Star Wars 1 & 3) Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens beebeebarr@aol.com Verzonden: zaterdag 23 juli 2005 7:43 Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Terminology Question??? Hey, Axel & all, Right you are -- rubellite (red/pink), verdelite (green), indicolite (blue), and achroite (colorless) are old names from before mineralogists figured out the cation substitutions to divide up the tourmaline group into species. Nowadays, gemmologists and the gem trade still use these names because they don't necessarily care what species a stone is, just what color and whether it's a tourmaline. Most gem tourmalines are elbaite, and probably most watermelon crystals, but other species can be gemmy and colorful, notably dravite and liddicoatite. The classic color-zoned tourmaline slices from Madagascar are/were, I believe, often liddicoatite over elbaite, but some show black zones, too, so that could be schorl or maybe foitite. As for fluorescence, besides the Afghan pinks, dravite is often fluorescent in a buttery yellow; this occurs in material from the great Brumada magnesite deposit in Bahia, Brazil, as well as in crystals from Madagascar, somewhere in the Himalayas, and probably elsewhere. Incidentally, gemmologists must not be all bad, because liddicoatite was named by the esteemed mineralogist Pete Dunn after the noted gemmologist Richard Liddicoat. There are some monster liddicoatites coming out of Vietnam now, by the way! Tourmalines -- can't afford 'em, but gotta love 'em! Bill Barr Ann Arbor, Michigan Will Work For Minerals -----Original Message----- From: Axel Emmermann To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 17:39:00 +0200 Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Terminology Question??? Hi Kreigh (and everybody else ;-))) Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that rubellite is not a mineral name but rather an undetermined pink or red tourmaline, probably elbaite. So is verdelite, the green variety. I may be wrong but aren't watermelon tourmalines elbaite through and through? I had to deal with this nomenclature issue a lot when photographing and labeling specimens from Brazil and Afghanistan. On some of those Afghan specimens you'll find the pink and the green elbaite together. The pink stuff fluoresces nearly always, the green stuff (to my knowledge) never. The fluorescent color under my TripleBright SW looks a lot like that of benitoite or dumortierite... I should sacrifice a specimen to see if there's any Ti4+ present. Maybe this fall... Cheers Axel (on topic for a change! Somebody wave a flag and sing hallelujah, hurry!) -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski Verzonden: vrijdag 22 juli 2005 6:08 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Terminology Question??? Timm, I've got a specimen like that too. Elbaite over Rubellite makes 'watermelon tourmaline'. But I've never heard of a name for Elbaite over Schorl. We could call Elbaite over Schorl 'watermelon seed tourmaline'. Kreigh Pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > No special name for this that I ever heard of. There's a lot of zoning in all kinds of tourmaline, and I wouldn't be surprised to see something like this. > > Pete > > -------------- Original message from MCGINNISG@aol.com: -------------- > > > Is there a special name for elbaite crystals with schorl centers? > > Timm _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From LarryRush at worldnet.att.net Sat Jul 23 13:18:42 2005 From: LarryRush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sat Jul 23 13:18:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] MR's References: Message-ID: <003201c58fc3$b956df00$9d8e4c0c@fekib> I have several MR's left for anyone interested. These are all of the "special" variety; i.e.,Tsumeb, Katanga, Gold, Sweet Home, etc. Please contact me off-line for a list. Larry -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.3 - Release Date: 12/21/04 From kahako at verizon.net Sat Jul 23 17:43:18 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Jul 23 17:43:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Only Kayak Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050723142358.02627f00@incoming.verizon.net> Hi List, For those of you who like Alaska, wilderness, and good writing, I've got to point out the newest book by Bill's brother, Kim Heacox. "The Last Kayak" is a memoir of Kim's 25 years living near Glacier Bay. Some reviewers are comparing his writing to Edward Abbey and John McPhee. He was primarily inspired by a geology and earth sciences teacher, and is also a professional photographer with several "coffee table books" and calendars and National Geographic items to his credit. About 20 books---mostly on Alaska---can be found on amazon.com. The following URL is an interview with a reporter for the Anchorage Daily News and contains some neat pictures, as well as a brief mention of Bill (astronomy professor in Hilo) and a brother who had been a smokejumper for the Forest Service (that was Bill). http://www.adn.com/life/v-printer/story/6673354p-6559999c.html This is not a plug to buy the book...maybe borrow it from the library! Aloha, Kitty --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tam2819 at cox.net Sat Jul 23 19:42:43 2005 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Sat Jul 23 19:42:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Only Kayak In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050723142358.02627f00@incoming.verizon.net> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050723142358.02627f00@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <39ca375e797ddbc6ebc25573c6659537@cox.net> Kitty, What a wonderful relative. The article was enjoyable reading, I'm sure the book as well.So nice to have good in laws. I think it is wonderful to live out one's dream. It so rarely happens. We are too fearful. How are you two? Somewhat quiet here. Yes hot, but not as bad as elsewhere. The coastal influences keep us temperate. Sort of lazy today. Take care, Hugs Terrie From Rocknlight at aol.com Sat Jul 23 21:15:20 2005 From: Rocknlight at aol.com (Rocknlight@aol.com) Date: Sat Jul 23 21:15:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fwd: AD: VIKING TUMBLER > S a l e < Vibrasonic / GEO-SONIC Message-ID: <53.2c288292.30146fd8@aol.com> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) message/rfc822 --- From Rocknlight at aol.com Sat Jul 23 21:29:44 2005 From: Rocknlight at aol.com (Rocknlight@aol.com) Date: Sat Jul 23 21:29:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD- VIBRASONIC / VIKING Tumblers 4 sale Message-ID: <1ea.4142e441.30147338@aol.com> Hello I am selling 2 new Viking Tumblers... These tumblers have the large 50 pound hoppers and this machine not only vibrates the load but it also rotates the load.. One of the tumblers also has 6 hoppers at 4 pounds each.. An adapter mounts all loads on the top of the machine.. Diamond Pacific Lapidary manufactures these Viking Tumblers... The machines are also known as the Vibrasonic and Geo-Sonic line of tumblers.. Please e mail me for all info and pricing... They are priced well below Diamond Pacific retail prices.... Thank you for your time and interest.. Steve --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at verizon.net Sat Jul 23 22:27:09 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Jul 23 22:27:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Only Kayak In-Reply-To: <39ca375e797ddbc6ebc25573c6659537@cox.net> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050723142358.02627f00@incoming.verizon.net> <39ca375e797ddbc6ebc25573c6659537@cox.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050723192054.0260f150@incoming.verizon.net> I've just discovered that the URL I posted for this book has changed and now requires a log-in. I have copied (legally---with the site's permission) the article so if you're interested you can contact me off-line and I will email it to you. Otherwise, you can just google the book or author. Aloha, Kitty From Kpduties8 at aol.com Sat Jul 23 22:38:24 2005 From: Kpduties8 at aol.com (Kpduties8@aol.com) Date: Sat Jul 23 22:38:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] About Mars Message-ID: <1e1.410e9ad4.30148350@aol.com> Get out your cameras...This should be pretty cool! :) The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next, Earth is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The next time Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter's gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only be certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last 5,000 years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens again. The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to within 34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the brightest object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and will appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification By August 27, Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars will be easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east at 10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m. By the end of August when the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach its highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That's pretty convenient to see something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So, mark your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow progressively brighter and brighter throughout the month. Share this with your children and grandchildren. NO ONE ALIVE TODAY WILL EVER SEE THIS AGAIN --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at verizon.net Sat Jul 23 23:56:03 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Jul 23 23:56:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] About Mars--HOAX In-Reply-To: <1e1.410e9ad4.30148350@aol.com> References: <1e1.410e9ad4.30148350@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050723204817.03f7aae0@incoming.verizon.net> Only the first sentence below is true. The Red Planet is about to be spectacular. The rest is a hoax. Here are the facts: Earth and Mars are converging for a close encounter this year on October 30th at 0319 Universal Time. Distance: 69 million kilometers. To the unaided eye, Mars will look like a bright red star, a pinprick of light, certainly not as wide as the full Moon. Please look at the following NASA site for the REAL story on Mars. http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/07jul_marshoax.htm?list762633 Aloha, Kitty At 07:38 PM 7/23/2005, Kpduties wrote: > >Get out your cameras...This should be pretty cool! :) > >The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next, >Earth is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the >closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The next time >Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter's gravity >tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only be certain that >Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last 5,000 years, but it >may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens again. > >The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to >within 34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the >brightest object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and >will appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification > >By August 27, Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked >eye. Mars will be easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise >in the east at 10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m. > >By the end of August when the two planets are closest, Mars will >rise at nightfall and reach its highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. >That's pretty convenient to see something that no human being has seen in >recorded history. > >So, mark your calendar at the beginning of August to see >Mars grow progressively brighter and brighter throughout the month. > >Share this with your children and grandchildren. > >NO ONE ALIVE TODAY WILL EVER SEE THIS AGAIN --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Jul 24 04:51:30 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Jul 24 04:51:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] About Mars In-Reply-To: <1e1.410e9ad4.30148350@aol.com> Message-ID: >By August 27, Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked >eye. But that is because the moon will have shrunk and shriveled, due to a cosmic drought ;-))) Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kpduties8@aol.com Verzonden: zondag 24 juli 2005 7:38 Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] About Mars Get out your cameras...This should be pretty cool! :) The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next, Earth is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The next time Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter's gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only be certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last 5,000 years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens again. The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to within 34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the brightest object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and will appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification By August 27, Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars will be easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east at 10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m. By the end of August when the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach its highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That's pretty convenient to see something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So, mark your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow progressively brighter and brighter throughout the month. Share this with your children and grandchildren. NO ONE ALIVE TODAY WILL EVER SEE THIS AGAIN --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From dmschmidt at sprint.ca Sun Jul 24 06:03:44 2005 From: dmschmidt at sprint.ca (michael schmidt) Date: Sun Jul 24 06:01:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] About Mars References: <1e1.410e9ad4.30148350@aol.com> Message-ID: <013301c59050$1f292220$6d5d5318@johnny> don't share this with anyone, as this information is 2 years out of date..... this is an old email be re-circulated over and over again...... check out http://www.snopes.com/science/mars.asp or, call your local planetarium....they'll tell you it's from 2 years ago...it's simply another email chain letter (albeit truthful 2 years ago) Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 10:38 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] About Mars > > Get out your cameras...This should be pretty cool! :) > > The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next, > Earth is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the > closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The next time > Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter's gravity > tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only be certain that > Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last 5,000 years, but it > may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens again. > > The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to > within 34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the > brightest object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and > will appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification > > By August 27, Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked > eye. Mars will be easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise > in the east at 10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m. > > By the end of August when the two planets are closest, Mars will > rise at nightfall and reach its highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. > That's pretty convenient to see something that no human being has seen in > recorded history. > > So, mark your calendar at the beginning of August to see > Mars grow progressively brighter and brighter throughout the month. > > Share this with your children and grandchildren. > > NO ONE ALIVE TODAY WILL EVER SEE THIS AGAIN > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From xossfs at yahoo.com Sun Jul 24 07:58:25 2005 From: xossfs at yahoo.com (Stephen Stover) Date: Sun Jul 24 07:58:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] North east texas arrowhead locals? Know of any? Jacksonville gold locations? In-Reply-To: <20e.56994e4.3012959c@aol.com> Message-ID: <20050724145825.19539.qmail@web33401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> only gold I know of is in the llano area in texas. May be some way out west. However I am in the Dallas area and I know of a few locations for fossils and Minerals. the cement quarries of midellothain (sp?) have some good marcasite pryamids. Fossils of the sulpher river including dino bone. and fossle teeth here there and yoonder. --- Paintricks@aol.com wrote: > Hello everyone, > I live in Northeast Texas around wood county and > was wondering if anyone > knows of arrowhead locations along the rivers and > stream beds and could direct > me to some of them. > Also,.. I was reading that a man found gold dust > just North above the > Jacksonville Tx. > We are predominantly iron ore based here and I > know that "gold" is scarce > but it may have some occurrences in this type of > area. This is just a rumor > to me so far but you never know. Would love to hear > of information of this > area on anything about it's geology if anyone can > help me. > Thanks in advance, > Kevin > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > Stephen F. Stover PH (281) 829-1102 xossfs@yahoo.com Wanting to hunt rocks and play games every day! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From kadok at infowest.com Sun Jul 24 08:27:35 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sun Jul 24 08:27:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Only Kayak In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050723142358.02627f00@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <20050724152728.0D60C1E3076@alora.infowest.com> Thank you for telling us about him, Kitty! Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill Heacox Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 5:43 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] The Only Kayak Hi List, For those of you who like Alaska, wilderness, and good writing, I've got to point out the newest book by Bill's brother, Kim Heacox. "The Last Kayak" is a memoir of Kim's 25 years living near Glacier Bay. Some reviewers are comparing his writing to Edward Abbey and John McPhee. He was primarily inspired by a geology and earth sciences teacher, and is also a professional photographer with several "coffee table books" and calendars and National Geographic items to his credit. About 20 books---mostly on Alaska---can be found on amazon.com. The following URL is an interview with a reporter for the Anchorage Daily News and contains some neat pictures, as well as a brief mention of Bill (astronomy professor in Hilo) and a brother who had been a smokejumper for the Forest Service (that was Bill). http://www.a dn.com/life/v-printer/story/6673354p-6559999c.html This is not a plug to buy the book...maybe borrow it from the library! Aloha, Kitty --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From bobl at peaktopeak.com Sun Jul 24 09:11:21 2005 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Sun Jul 24 09:11:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] About Mars In-Reply-To: <013301c59050$1f292220$6d5d5318@johnny> Message-ID: <200507241611.j6OGBMZQ011070@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Michael, It wasn't even truthful 2 years ago. Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of michael schmidt Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 7:04 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] About Mars don't share this with anyone, as this information is 2 years out of date..... this is an old email be re-circulated over and over again...... check out http://www.snopes.com/science/mars.asp or, call your local planetarium....they'll tell you it's from 2 years ago...it's simply another email chain letter (albeit truthful 2 years ago) Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 10:38 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] About Mars > > Get out your cameras...This should be pretty cool! :) > > The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next, > Earth is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the > closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The next time > Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter's gravity > tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only be certain that > Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last 5,000 years, but it > may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens again. > > The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to > within 34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the > brightest object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and > will appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification > > By August 27, Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked > eye. Mars will be easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise > in the east at 10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m. > > By the end of August when the two planets are closest, Mars will > rise at nightfall and reach its highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. > That's pretty convenient to see something that no human being has seen in > recorded history. > > So, mark your calendar at the beginning of August to see > Mars grow progressively brighter and brighter throughout the month. > > Share this with your children and grandchildren. > > NO ONE ALIVE TODAY WILL EVER SEE THIS AGAIN > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From teyancey at mail.tca.net Sun Jul 24 09:24:04 2005 From: teyancey at mail.tca.net (Thomas Yancey) Date: Sun Jul 24 09:23:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] North east texas arrowhead locals? Know of any? Jacksonville gold locations? In-Reply-To: <20050724145825.19539.qmail@web33401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050724145825.19539.qmail@web33401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Correction: the Sulphur River fossils are marine, mostly mosasaur bones and teeth - and fish. It might be possible to find some hadrosaur teeth, although I have not heard it reported from there. T. Yancey > >The cement quarries of Midlothian have some >good marcasite pryamids. Fossils of the Sulphur river >including dino bone and fossil teeth here, there and >yonder. > -- Thomas Yancey From dmschmidt at sprint.ca Sun Jul 24 09:26:16 2005 From: dmschmidt at sprint.ca (michael schmidt) Date: Sun Jul 24 09:24:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] About Mars References: <200507241611.j6OGBMZQ011070@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <012701c5906c$6a967480$6d5d5318@johnny> I had asked a local astronomer about that particular email, and he told me that two years ago mars actually came to its closest distance to earth in 60,000 years..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Loeffler" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 9:11 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] About Mars > Michael, > > It wasn't even truthful 2 years ago. > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of michael schmidt > Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 7:04 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] About Mars > > don't share this with anyone, as this information is 2 years out of > date..... > this is an old email be re-circulated over and over again...... > > check out http://www.snopes.com/science/mars.asp > > or, call your local planetarium....they'll tell you it's from 2 years > ago...it's simply another email chain letter (albeit truthful 2 years ago) > > Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 10:38 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] About Mars > > > > > > Get out your cameras...This should be pretty cool! :) > > > > The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next, > > Earth is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the > > closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The next > time > > Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter's gravity > > tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only be certain that > > Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last 5,000 years, but it > > may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens again. > > > > The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to > > within 34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the > > brightest object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and > > will appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification > > > > By August 27, Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked > > eye. Mars will be easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise > > in the east at 10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m. > > > > By the end of August when the two planets are closest, Mars will > > rise at nightfall and reach its highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. > > That's pretty convenient to see something that no human being has seen in > > recorded history. > > > > So, mark your calendar at the beginning of August to see > > Mars grow progressively brighter and brighter throughout the month. > > > > Share this with your children and grandchildren. > > > > NO ONE ALIVE TODAY WILL EVER SEE THIS AGAIN > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From jaybates at rcn.com Sun Jul 24 09:27:13 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sun Jul 24 09:25:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Only Kayak References: <20050724152728.0D60C1E3076@alora.infowest.com> Message-ID: <002401c5906c$8cfebe60$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Margaret Interesting that Bill was a smokejumper for the Forest Service. My brother Scott Bates was a smokejumper for the Forest Service out of McCall Idaho and mostly in Alaska for the BLM for about ten years. Does Bill know him? Scott just got back from Alaska where he , Murry Taylor, and another friend helped Don Bell build a wilderness cabin on his homesteaded land near Mount Denali and the Savage River. Murry Taylor wrote the book "Jumping Fire" which is being made into a movie and is a great read. Jay Bates ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margaret Malm" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 8:27 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] The Only Kayak > Thank you for telling us about him, Kitty! > > Margaret > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill > Heacox > Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 5:43 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] The Only Kayak > > Hi List, > > For those of you who like Alaska, wilderness, and good writing, I've got to > point out the newest book by Bill's brother, Kim Heacox. "The Last Kayak" > is a memoir of Kim's 25 years living near Glacier Bay. Some reviewers are > comparing his writing to Edward Abbey and John McPhee. He was primarily > inspired by a geology and earth sciences teacher, and is also a > professional photographer with several "coffee table books" and calendars > and National Geographic items to his credit. About 20 books---mostly on > Alaska---can be found on amazon.com. > > The following URL is an interview with a reporter for the Anchorage Daily > News and contains some neat pictures, as well as a brief mention of Bill > (astronomy professor in Hilo) and a brother who had been a smokejumper for > the Forest Service (that was Bill). > > http://www.a > dn.com/life/v-printer/story/6673354p-6559999c.html > > > This is not a plug to buy the book...maybe borrow it from the library! > > Aloha, Kitty > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.4/57 - Release Date: 7/22/05 > > From kahako at verizon.net Sun Jul 24 09:58:48 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Jul 24 09:58:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] About Mars In-Reply-To: <012701c5906c$6a967480$6d5d5318@johnny> References: <200507241611.j6OGBMZQ011070@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <012701c5906c$6a967480$6d5d5318@johnny> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050724065647.025b6970@incoming.verizon.net> As I said, check out the NASA site. The only part that's true is that Mars will be closer. The rest is bunk. It will not appear to be as big as as the moon, etc. Aloha, Kitty At 06:26 AM 7/24/2005, you wrote: >I had asked a local astronomer about that particular email, and he told me >that two years ago mars actually came to its closest distance to earth in >60,000 years..... From bobl at peaktopeak.com Sun Jul 24 10:12:51 2005 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Sun Jul 24 10:12:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] About Mars In-Reply-To: <012701c5906c$6a967480$6d5d5318@johnny> Message-ID: <200507241712.j6OHCqi3021847@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Some parts of it were true (or at least close to being true), but others weren't even close (like Mars appearing to be the size of the moon). I'm glad that wasn't true because the Earth's orbit would've changed, at least a little, from the gravitational pull of Mars. And the Moon's orbit would definitely change. Even though the Earth is more massive than Mars, Mars would have to be about twice the distance from the Earth as the Moon in order for it to be perceived as the same size (because the Moon is half the diameter of Mars and their masses are similar). So the orbits of both planets and the Moon would be changed and that could spell disaster for all plants, animals and humans on Earth. A different orbital distance would cause a higher or lower average temperature on the Earth, and we all know what a few degrees change over a long period of time could do, at least in theory. Ice Age. And the ocean tides would, as someone else mentioned, be much different than they are now. Disclaimer: I'm not an astronomer, so I could have some flaws in my data/theory, but I have been interested in it since I was a kid, took some classes in college, and I try to keep up with it a little bit. :-) Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of michael schmidt Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 10:26 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] About Mars I had asked a local astronomer about that particular email, and he told me that two years ago mars actually came to its closest distance to earth in 60,000 years..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Loeffler" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 9:11 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] About Mars > Michael, > > It wasn't even truthful 2 years ago. > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of michael schmidt > Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 7:04 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] About Mars > > don't share this with anyone, as this information is 2 years out of > date..... > this is an old email be re-circulated over and over again...... > > check out http://www.snopes.com/science/mars.asp > > or, call your local planetarium....they'll tell you it's from 2 years > ago...it's simply another email chain letter (albeit truthful 2 years ago) > > Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 10:38 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] About Mars > > > > > > Get out your cameras...This should be pretty cool! :) > > > > The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next, > > Earth is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the > > closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The next > time > > Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter's gravity > > tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only be certain that > > Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last 5,000 years, but it > > may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens again. > > > > The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to > > within 34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the > > brightest object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and > > will appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification > > > > By August 27, Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked > > eye. Mars will be easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise > > in the east at 10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m. > > > > By the end of August when the two planets are closest, Mars will > > rise at nightfall and reach its highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. > > That's pretty convenient to see something that no human being has seen in > > recorded history. > > > > So, mark your calendar at the beginning of August to see > > Mars grow progressively brighter and brighter throughout the month. > > > > Share this with your children and grandchildren. > > > > NO ONE ALIVE TODAY WILL EVER SEE THIS AGAIN > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at verizon.net Sun Jul 24 10:13:46 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Jul 24 10:13:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Only Kayak In-Reply-To: <002401c5906c$8cfebe60$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> References: <20050724152728.0D60C1E3076@alora.infowest.com> <002401c5906c$8cfebe60$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050724065907.03d767d8@incoming.verizon.net> Jay, Margaret wouldn't know. She was responding to me. Bill Heacox was the smokejumper out of Missoula, Montana, back in the early 1960's. He's heard of the "Jumping Fire" book but hasn't read it yet. I guess it's not surprising that rockhounds would often have background in the Forest Service and other outdoor vocations. Aloha, Kitty At 06:27 AM 7/24/2005, Jay Bates wrote: >Margaret > >Interesting that Bill was a smokejumper for the Forest Service. My brother >Scott Bates was a smokejumper for the Forest Service out of McCall Idaho and >mostly in Alaska for the BLM for about ten years. Does Bill know him? Scott >just got back from Alaska where he , Murry Taylor, and another friend helped >Don Bell build a wilderness cabin on his homesteaded land near Mount Denali >and the Savage River. Murry Taylor wrote the book "Jumping Fire" which is >being made into a movie and is a great read. Jay Bates >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Margaret Malm" > > > Thank you for telling us about him, Kitty! > > > > Margaret > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill > > Heacox > > Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 5:43 PM > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Subject: [Rockhounds] The Only Kayak > > > > Hi List, > > > > For those of you who like Alaska, wilderness, and good writing, I've got >to > > point out the newest book by Bill's brother, Kim Heacox. "The Last Kayak" > > is a memoir of Kim's 25 years living near Glacier Bay. Some reviewers are > > comparing his writing to Edward Abbey and John McPhee. He was primarily > > inspired by a geology and earth sciences teacher, and is also a > > professional photographer with several "coffee table books" and calendars > > and National Geographic items to his credit. About 20 books---mostly on > > Alaska---can be found on amazon.com. > > > > The following URL is an interview with a reporter for the Anchorage Daily > > News and contains some neat pictures, as well as a brief mention of Bill > > (astronomy professor in Hilo) and a brother who had been a smokejumper for > > the Forest Service (that was Bill). > > > > >http://www.a > > dn.com/life/v-printer/story/6673354p-6559999c.html > > > > > > This is not a plug to buy the book...maybe borrow it from the library! > > > > Aloha, Kitty > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.4/57 - Release Date: 7/22/05 > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 24 11:40:57 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sun Jul 24 11:41:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] About Mars In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050724065647.025b6970@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <20050724184058.43797.qmail@web51007.mail.yahoo.com> I didn't save the original post, but I believe it said "at 75X magnification". I presumed it meant that mars would appear that large with magnification, compared to the moon without magnification. The way it was worded (intenionally?), it could easily be misunderstood. Jim --- Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > As I said, check out the NASA site. The only part > that's true is that Mars > will be closer. The rest is bunk. It will not > appear to be as big as as > the moon, etc. > > Aloha, Kitty > > > At 06:26 AM 7/24/2005, you wrote: > >I had asked a local astronomer about that > particular email, and he told me > >that two years ago mars actually came to its > closest distance to earth in > >60,000 years..... > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From agesilaus at gmail.com Sun Jul 24 13:30:13 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Jul 24 13:30:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] About Mars In-Reply-To: <20050724184058.43797.qmail@web51007.mail.yahoo.com> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050724065647.025b6970@incoming.verizon.net> <20050724184058.43797.qmail@web51007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: That's my recollection too, I did think the whole thing was silly. To the naked eye observer what difference does it make that Mars is a few hundred thousand miles closer than usual? Bryan On 7/24/05, Jim Daly wrote: > I didn't save the original post, but I believe it said > "at 75X magnification". I presumed it meant that mars > would appear that large with magnification, compared > to the moon without magnification. The way it was > worded (intenionally?), it could easily be > misunderstood. > Jim > > --- Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > > As I said, check out the NASA site. The only part > > that's true is that Mars > > will be closer. The rest is bunk. It will not > > appear to be as big as as > > the moon, etc. > > > > Aloha, Kitty > > > > > > At 06:26 AM 7/24/2005, you wrote: > > >I had asked a local astronomer about that > > particular email, and he told me > > >that two years ago mars actually came to its > > closest distance to earth in > > >60,000 years..... > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Sun Jul 24 16:39:55 2005 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Wayne Rasmussen) Date: Sun Jul 24 16:40:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Idaho Crystals Message-ID: <002201c590a8$ff728d50$645fe842@Titans> As I recall being told some years back there are Crystals to be found just to the North on Cascade Idaho on the ridge that runs along the hiway, wondering also if that is to be private lands therein anyone with this information....thanks lots Wayne --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sun Jul 24 17:34:18 2005 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Sun Jul 24 17:36:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhound's Guide to Montana, Base Coordinates... Message-ID: <001601c590b0$9f54dd30$12b4010a@warren> Hey guys... We've found it really difficult to locate site in the Rockhound's Guide to Montana, due to the lack of a basemap in the book. To anyone who cares, John and I just found coordinates for the "base" sites listed in Rockhound's guide to Montana. These are NOT the actual sites; each coordinate set is simply a location that is on the map shown for the site, or if a map isn't shown, a location mentioned in the text. Consequently, things like "Great Falls" area are simply marked on Great Falls, Montana. What it *does* let you do when planning a Montana trip, is load the coordinates into your mapping software so you can see the general area you might want to go without trying to figure out where the heck "Three Forks" is and if it is on your route. If anyone wants a copy to create a basemap from, let me know, and I will send it along. Julie --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jaybates at rcn.com Sun Jul 24 18:31:01 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sun Jul 24 18:29:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhound's Guide to Montana, Base Coordinates... References: <001601c590b0$9f54dd30$12b4010a@warren> Message-ID: <000501c590b8$877b15a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> I have had difficulty with that book, but not with finding towns like Three Forks. My problems was with the lack of mileage to various sites. We started into Hecla Mining District on a four wheel drive road and after about four miles of big rocks and washouts we turned back not knowing how close or far we were away from Hecla. You really need Forest Service or BLM maps to go along with the Guide Book or you can not plan very well how far or long you have to travel. Fourteen miles of rough four wheel travel is not what I anticipated for a site in a rockhounding guide book. We were able to find the right roads usually since the Forest Service and county signs were pretty good. On another note, you find that it is difficult to find locations to dump garbage in Montana. Always ask the locals for the location of the nearest garbage dumpster sites at every opportunity. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie Siebel" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 5:34 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhound's Guide to Montana, Base Coordinates... Hey guys... We've found it really difficult to locate site in the Rockhound's Guide to Montana, due to the lack of a basemap in the book. To anyone who cares, John and I just found coordinates for the "base" sites listed in Rockhound's guide to Montana. These are NOT the actual sites; each coordinate set is simply a location that is on the map shown for the site, or if a map isn't shown, a location mentioned in the text. Consequently, things like "Great Falls" area are simply marked on Great Falls, Montana. What it *does* let you do when planning a Montana trip, is load the coordinates into your mapping software so you can see the general area you might want to go without trying to figure out where the heck "Three Forks" is and if it is on your route. If anyone wants a copy to create a basemap from, let me know, and I will send it along. Julie --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.4/57 - Release Date: 7/22/05 From lanny at lrream.com Sun Jul 24 19:39:04 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sun Jul 24 19:38:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Montana Trip In-Reply-To: <001d01c58e45$ee440550$12b4010a@warren> References: <001d01c58e45$ee440550$12b4010a@warren> Message-ID: <56bfcfd139bcce7064944c9b70b348d2@lrream.com> Hi Julie, The Calvert Hill tungsten mine is not far from Crystal Park. Access is fairly easy. If you are going to Crystal Park from the north, then instead of turning south at Wise River to Crystal Park, continue west about 8 miles to Dickey Bridge (the first bridge that crosses the river) and turn left. Follow this road along the river for about 2 miles and take the left fork (right fork is private). Continue southwesterly for about 2.5 miles and take a right. It is about 2 miles up this road to the mine (distances are just my approximations from the forest map). The mine is a fair size open pit with a small pit beside it. There is a large dump, and the road takes you onto the large flat top of the dump at the mouth of the two pits. The large pit is full of water, but the smaller pit is accessible. The rock is a skarn, dominantly massive garnet, epidote and quartz. There are large cavities with epidote crystals, except they are usually filled with quartz, making rather difficult to get the large epidote crystals. Nice epidote crystals can be found, garnets can be found (probably andradite-grossular) as well as quartz and smoky quartz. The really odd thing here is the aquamarine which occurs as long thin crystals up to nice fat crystals up to more than an inch in length (longest reported about 6 inches long). The aqua is scarce, and occurs frozen in calcite, epidote or quartz. The scheelite is massive. Collecting is not easy, there are tons of massive minerals, but not many cavities with crystals, but I have collected some very nice crystals epidote, smoky quartz, aquamarine and garnet. When you are at Crystal Park, look east at Comet Mountain and you will see mine dumps that go up the west side of the mountain. These are dumps of the Gar mine group. The dumps have wulfenite, cerussite, hemimorphite, caledonite and a few unknowns, all micro. We've investigated only about half these dumps, and haven't had everything identified yet. North of Butte is the Indian Head rock barite locality. Take I-15 north for about 22 miles to the Bernice exit. From here, you can go left over the mountains to Deer Lodge if you would like a nice drive through the forest. To collect barite, go right the short distance to the frontage road and turn left past the highway department building and take the gravel road to the right and follow it northeasterly alongside the creek and interstate to the cliff and talus slope where the interstate enters the canyon. Indian Head Rock is the outcrop on the north side of the highway, it's the same volcanic rock as the cliffs on the south side. It's about a mile and a half or a little more from the exit to the outcrops. There is a pit there where the talus has been mined, the good barite is in the cliffs above this small pit in the talus. One can also find small yellow barite crystals in the talus here and to the east. The best stuff is up in the cliff in two veins that have been mined. There is a trail that goes south a short distance then up a gulch then north along the cliff and into the two small workings. The yellow to brown, blocky barite crystals are up to more than an inch across. It's hard rock mining here, so take the hammer, chisel and bar. Regards, Lanny On Jul 21, 2005, at 3:45 PM, Julie Siebel wrote: > John and I are going to Montana on the 29th of July for about ten > days. His sister lives on a very large ranch near Grassrange, Montana, > and we've found good sites very near there during previous visits. On > the way back to Santa, Idaho, though, we're dropping down from Bozeman > to Butte to Crystal Park (we think...lol), then eventually, back to > the Santa, Idaho area, which is 75 miles or so south of Coeur d'Alene, > Idaho. Does anyone know of any interesting areas for that > Grassrange-(which is near Lewiston)-Bozeman-Butte-Idaho route? > (Besides Crystal Park, that is...the last time we were there was in > our first months of rockhounding, we had NO tools, NO idea what we > were doing, and were utterly delighted with the coating of adequate > crystals on the ground glittering in the sun...lol) > > Thanks! > > Julie > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From Kpduties8 at aol.com Sun Jul 24 21:28:41 2005 From: Kpduties8 at aol.com (Kpduties8@aol.com) Date: Sun Jul 24 21:28:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Mars Message-ID: <85.2c3f4540.3015c479@aol.com> Sorry about the hoax, I should have done a double take. First time I have passed one on, so live and learn. Kathy --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From stu at arcrystalmine.com Mon Jul 25 08:18:54 2005 From: stu at arcrystalmine.com (stu@arcrystalmine.com) Date: Mon Jul 25 08:19:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Need Info on Muriatic Acid References: Message-ID: <000801c5912c$3493b0d0$6400a8c0@STUART> I'm looking for info on Muriatic Acid. I have been using TRANSCHEM Acid that indicates "Solution 20 Baume (31.45% HCL, 68.55% Inert)". I have been buying it at True Value for $2.49 a gallon and use about 20 gallon a month to clean crystals that are covered in heavy limonite. The acid looses its effectiveness after about 3 uses. I've seen other Muriatic Acid with 20% HCL and it was more expensive. Can anyone explain what the Baume means and if a higher % HCL would last longer. Also looking for a source to buy the Acid in 5 gallon containers. Any recommendations? You can see my "Crystal Still" cleaning operation on this web page: http://www.arcrystalmine.com/still.html With appreciation & gratitude, Stuart Schmitt Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine www.arcrystalmine.com 60 Mary's Eagle Trail Mount Ida, AR 71957 (870) 867-2443 From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Mon Jul 25 08:34:41 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Mon Jul 25 08:34:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Need Info on Muriatic Acid In-Reply-To: <000801c5912c$3493b0d0$6400a8c0@STUART> References: <000801c5912c$3493b0d0$6400a8c0@STUART> Message-ID: <42E50691.3050906@tenforward.com> Hi Stuart, More will likely respond. I've been getting my Muriatic in 5 gallon containers from my local landscape supplier. I just called... $3.15 per gallon. I hope this helps, John stu@arcrystalmine.com wrote: > I'm looking for info on Muriatic Acid. I have been using TRANSCHEM > Acid that indicates "Solution 20 Baume (31.45% HCL, 68.55% Inert)". I > have been buying it at True Value for $2.49 a gallon and use about 20 > gallon a month to clean crystals that are covered in heavy limonite. > The acid looses its effectiveness after about 3 uses. I've seen other > Muriatic Acid with 20% HCL and it was more expensive. Can anyone > explain what the Baume means and if a higher % HCL would last longer. > Also looking for a source to buy the Acid in 5 gallon containers. Any > recommendations? You can see my "Crystal Still" cleaning operation on > this web page: http://www.arcrystalmine.com/still.html > > With appreciation & gratitude, > Stuart Schmitt > Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine > www.arcrystalmine.com > 60 Mary's Eagle Trail > Mount Ida, AR 71957 > (870) 867-2443 > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Jul 25 09:14:27 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Jul 25 09:14:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Need Info on Muriatic Acid Message-ID: <072520051614.6303.42E50FE2000E8E3F0000189F216046664807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Hi Stuart, The pictures of your "still" and the uncleaned and cleaned crystals, are all pretty neat. "Baume" is a somewhat archaic (but still used) scale of density. It's often used to express the density and sugar content of wine and grape juice. I would just think that your best buy is whatever source of HCl gives you the most %HCl for the least money. I don't think higher or lower % HCl would last longer, except based on the amount of acid that's in it; i.e., 1 gallon of 30% HCl should do the same work as 2 gallons of 15%. I don't have any suggestions for cheaper sources of acid, although I'm sure that some must be available through wholesalers at a cheaper price for larger quantities. Good luck, Pete -------------- Original message from : -------------- > I'm looking for info on Muriatic Acid. I have been using TRANSCHEM Acid > that indicates "Solution 20 Baume (31.45% HCL, 68.55% Inert)". I have been > buying it at True Value for $2.49 a gallon and use about 20 gallon a month > to clean crystals that are covered in heavy limonite. The acid looses its > effectiveness after about 3 uses. I've seen other Muriatic Acid with 20% > HCL and it was more expensive. Can anyone explain what the Baume means and > if a higher % HCL would last longer. Also looking for a source to buy the > Acid in 5 gallon containers. Any recommendations? You can see my "Crystal > Still" cleaning operation on this web page: > http://www.arcrystalmine.com/still.html > > With appreciation & gratitude, > Stuart Schmitt > Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine > www.arcrystalmine.com > 60 Mary's Eagle Trail > Mount Ida, AR 71957 > (870) 867-2443 > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Bobg532 at netscape.net Mon Jul 25 09:22:17 2005 From: Bobg532 at netscape.net (Bob G) Date: Mon Jul 25 09:22:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Need Info on Muriatic Acid In-Reply-To: <000801c5912c$3493b0d0$6400a8c0@STUART> References: <000801c5912c$3493b0d0$6400a8c0@STUART> Message-ID: <42E511B9.3090609@netscape.net> My chemistry books aren't handy so as an old recollection the Baume scale is a density scale. It is usaually measured with a hydrometer and is a quick way of measuriing how much stuff is in the liquid just as a car antifreeze tester measures the antifreeze concentration in the coolant. A 20 Baume converts to 145/(145-20) or a gravity 1.16 times water. In Baume high numbers are light and low numbers are heavy. On firmer recollection. hydrochloric can exist as a liquid at up to 37%. You're probably using the acid down to about 5%. The TV hardware muriatic would have 51% more acid per gallon than the 20% and be used up a lot quicker. The shipping charges could eat up any savings on bulk unless you order a lot but look under both muriatic and hydrochloric acid at industrial chemical supply houses. Bob G PS. Don't get caught with a lot of antihistamine with the acid or you will be suspected of running a meth lab. :-) stu@arcrystalmine.com wrote: > I'm looking for info on Muriatic Acid. I have been using TRANSCHEM > Acid that indicates "Solution 20 Baume (31.45% HCL, 68.55% Inert)". I > have been buying it at True Value for $2.49 a gallon and use about 20 > gallon a month to clean crystals that are covered in heavy limonite. > The acid looses its effectiveness after about 3 uses. I've seen other > Muriatic Acid with 20% HCL and it was more expensive. Can anyone > explain what the Baume means and if a higher % HCL would last longer. > Also looking for a source to buy the Acid in 5 gallon containers. Any > recommendations? You can see my "Crystal Still" cleaning operation on > this web page: http://www.arcrystalmine.com/still.html > > With appreciation & gratitude, > Stuart Schmitt > Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine > www.arcrystalmine.com > 60 Mary's Eagle Trail > Mount Ida, AR 71957 > (870) 867-2443 > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Jul 25 09:24:40 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Jul 25 09:24:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds]Muriatic Acid, P.S. Message-ID: <072520051624.20651.42E51248000AEDA1000050AB216046664807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Hi again Stuart, Here's an email exchange & definition I found on the internet for the Baume scale, specifically re. HCl. (And of course, the word is French, so it should have an accent mark over the "e".) Pete http://yarchive.net/chem/baume.html From: glhurst@onr.com (Gerald L. Hurst) Newsgroups: sci.chem Subject: Re: What is Baume? Date: 3 Mar 1996 06:13:31 GMT In article <4hb7s0$taq@news.netam.net>, pletcgm@netam.net (G. Michael Pletcher) says: > >I have muratic acid that contains 20% HCL and 32% Baume. What is >Baume? Degrees Baume is a measure of specific gravity originally based on assigning 10% NaCl solution a value of 10. In the USA the relationship at 60/60 degF is usually expressed: sp.gr. = 145/(145-Baume) In the present case there is something wrong because 20% HCl is nowhere near 32 Baume. What you probably have is 32% HCl, which corresponds to about 20 degrees Baume. Be aware that there are a bunch of other methods for reaching values for Baume so your milage may vary a little in Washington DC, Amsterdam and Germany. -------------- Original message from : -------------- > I'm looking for info on Muriatic Acid. I have been using TRANSCHEM Acid > that indicates "Solution 20 Baume (31.45% HCL, 68.55% Inert)". I have been > buying it at True Value for $2.49 a gallon and use about 20 gallon a month > to clean crystals that are covered in heavy limonite. The acid looses its > effectiveness after about 3 uses. I've seen other Muriatic Acid with 20% > HCL and it was more expensive. Can anyone explain what the Baume means and > if a higher % HCL would last longer. Also looking for a source to buy the > Acid in 5 gallon containers. Any recommendations? You can see my "Crystal > Still" cleaning operation on this web page: > http://www.arcrystalmine.com/still.html > > With appreciation & gratitude, > Stuart Schmitt > Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine > www.arcrystalmine.com > 60 Mary's Eagle Trail > Mount Ida, AR 71957 > (870) 867-2443 > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Mon Jul 25 10:15:45 2005 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Mon Jul 25 10:13:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds]Muriatic Acid In-Reply-To: <072520051624.20651.42E51248000AEDA1000050AB216046664807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: Hi Stuart, Just a quick addition to what other list members have said already and that is that muriatic acid is commercial grade HCL not refined to high purity (by chemical standards anyway). The more chemically pure you get the higher the price. This may account for the conundrum of the lower HCl content hydrochloric acid costing more than the higher HCl content muriatic. Cheers Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada From kahako at verizon.net Mon Jul 25 10:36:14 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Jul 25 10:36:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pele's hair Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050725073131.025bcc28@incoming.verizon.net> Hi all, The USGS website has a cool picture of Pele's hair draped across an antenna on the rim of Pu'u O'o. It's definitely worth clicking on "large" to get a close look. All that stuff that looks like string or grass---or hair!---is really thin strands of glass. Here, again, is the website: http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/main.html Aloha, Kitty From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Mon Jul 25 11:10:40 2005 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Mon Jul 25 11:10:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Need Info on Muriatic Acid Message-ID: <06C6BFBE.67D3C1D0.02180873@aol.com> Baume' is an old way of measuring the density. Acids are often sold with this notation, but if you have the % HCl you need nothing more since more % means proportionally more HCl. About 31% is the strongest you can get in a commercial solution. I would check hardware supply and construction supply houses as a big use for small quantities of Muriatic is in etching concrete to improve bonding. Some masonry contractors use lots of the stuff. You may be able to get better prices, even in gallons from such an opteration. A 5 gallon carbouy of the material is too heavy and cumbersome for most home and construction uses, but you may be able to get price by buying several 1-gallon jugs at a time. Try running more than one batch and use the exhausted acid... after 3 uses, on a fresh batch of crystals to partially remove the coating. Chances are you still have a lot of free HCl when you dispose of a batch of acid but it has become partially spent and does not seem to remove the limonite. It may help you to stretch the use of the acid just a bit. You might also try a chemical distributor, but they may or may not be willing to sell it to you due to concerns with its safe use. You can probably get the material in drums but this is going to be a problem unless you have a means of moving and using the drums. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE In a message dated 7/25/2005 11:34:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, John and Gloria Cornish writes: >Hi Stuart, > >More will likely respond. I've been getting my Muriatic in 5 gallon >containers from my local landscape supplier. I just called... $3.15 per >gallon. I hope this helps, > >John > >stu@arcrystalmine.com wrote: > >> I'm looking for info on Muriatic Acid. ?I have been using TRANSCHEM >> Acid that indicates "Solution 20 Baume (31.45% HCL, 68.55% Inert)". ?I >> have been buying it at True Value for $2.49 a gallon and use about 20 >> gallon a month to clean crystals that are covered in heavy limonite. ? >> The acid looses its effectiveness after about 3 uses. ?I've seen other >> Muriatic Acid with 20% HCL and it was more expensive. ?Can anyone >> explain what the Baume means and if a higher % HCL would last longer. ? >> Also looking for a source to buy the Acid in 5 gallon containers. ?Any >> recommendations? ?You can see my "Crystal Still" cleaning operation on >> this web page: http://www.arcrystalmine.com/still.html >> >> With appreciation & gratitude, >> Stuart Schmitt >> Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine >> www.arcrystalmine.com >> 60 Mary's Eagle Trail >> Mount Ida, AR 71957 >> (870) 867-2443 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Mon Jul 25 12:09:50 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Mon Jul 25 12:09:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pele's hair In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050725073131.025bcc28@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: Aloha Kitty & All! This really is a great picture and example of "Pele's Hair". I saw it and saved it earlier today. The new crack near the south wall is also very interesting. The pictures on the site have been sparse and less exciting than a few months ago, but I still cannot resist looking each day at them and at the web cam. These today are the best in a while. You can see more on the archives at the website. Mahalo Kitty! ALOOOOHA! Everybody! Glenn >From: Kitty & Bill Heacox <kahako@verizon.net> >Hi all, > >The USGS website has a cool picture of Pele's hair draped across an >antenna on the rim of Pu'u O'o. It's definitely worth clicking on >"large" to get a close look. All that stuff that looks like string >or grass---or hair!---is really thin strands of glass. Here, again, >is the website: > >http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/main.html > >Aloha, Kitty ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Find e-mail and documents on your PC instantly with the new MSN Search Toolbar–FREE! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From kadok at infowest.com Mon Jul 25 12:10:50 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Mon Jul 25 12:10:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Need Info on Muriatic Acid In-Reply-To: <000801c5912c$3493b0d0$6400a8c0@STUART> Message-ID: <20050725191042.2ADF21E306F@alora.infowest.com> Hi, Stuart Baume' is a measure similar to specific gravity (which may be much more familiar to you?). Specific gravity is based on the density of water, while Baume' uses the density of a salt solution. They measure sort of the same thing, but in a bit different manner. In this case is an indication of its "purity", or "strength". Hydrochloric (Muriatic) acid is made by passing hydrogen chloride (which is normally a gas) into water, where it sort of dissolves. (Water would be the "inert" on the label). I should think that yours, which at 31.45% HCl has more of the gas in it that the 20%, should last a bit longer. However, since it (the active part) IS a gas, and it tends to want to remove itself from the water, particularly if it is in a fairly saturated solution, (hope you are doing this outside, as the gas is quite poisonous!!) it may not last appreciably longer, at least in an open container. You might have trouble finding it in 5 gallon containers, as people usually use acids in gallon (or smaller) containers; or else by the tank car load. Too much problem with breakage in a 5-gallon container, I should think. Very unhandy, as it would almost have to be glass or some sort of specially acid-resistant coated metal. You might try contacting Transchem (or True Value) to see what they say. Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of stu@arcrystalmine.com Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 8:19 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Need Info on Muriatic Acid I'm looking for info on Muriatic Acid. I have been using TRANSCHEM Acid that indicates "Solution 20 Baume (31.45% HCL, 68.55% Inert)". I have been buying it at True Value for $2.49 a gallon and use about 20 gallon a month to clean crystals that are covered in heavy limonite. The acid looses its effectiveness after about 3 uses. I've seen other Muriatic Acid with 20% HCL and it was more expensive. Can anyone explain what the Baume means and if a higher % HCL would last longer. Also looking for a source to buy the Acid in 5 gallon containers. Any recommendations? You can see my "Crystal Still" cleaning operation on this web page: http://www.arcrystalmine.com/still.html With appreciation & gratitude, Stuart Schmitt Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine www.arcrystalmine.com 60 Mary's Eagle Trail Mount Ida, AR 71957 (870) 867-2443 _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From agesilaus at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 12:27:33 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Jul 25 12:28:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Need Info on Muriatic Acid In-Reply-To: <20050725191042.2ADF21E306F@alora.infowest.com> References: <000801c5912c$3493b0d0$6400a8c0@STUART> <20050725191042.2ADF21E306F@alora.infowest.com> Message-ID: Strength but not 'purity' which is expressed by the grade of the acid, what we are talking about here is Technical Grade HCl, which is the common industrial grade. Technical grade has higher levels of impurities than the better grades. Dissolved metals and such. Laboratories use ACS grade and up which is generally 37% HCl. The better the grade the more it costs, we use some ultra-pure grade acid that is over $200 for 500 mL (a pint) bottle. You can easily get larger quantities of acid from chemical supply houses, 15 gallon plastic drums are easy to get ( often called del-drums) as are 30 and 55 gallon drums. I doubt there would be any difficulty buying those either as HCl is not controlled, you'd get the 37% material too which is a bit stronger than the material you are getting. Industrial chemical suppliers usually deliver to your location too, they generally have truck routes which go thru areas on a certain day of the week, outside of major cities. Apperson, Ashland and McKesson are some that we deal with. Bryan On 7/25/05, Margaret Malm wrote: > Hi, Stuart > > Baume' is a measure similar to specific gravity (which may be much more > familiar to you?). Specific gravity is based on the density of water, while > Baume' uses the density of a salt solution. They measure sort of the same > thing, but in a bit different manner. In this case is an indication of its > "purity", or "strength". > > Hydrochloric (Muriatic) acid is made by passing hydrogen chloride (which is > normally a gas) into water, where it sort of dissolves. (Water would be the > "inert" on the label). > > I should think that yours, which at 31.45% HCl has more of the gas in it > that the 20%, should last a bit longer. However, since it (the active part) > IS a gas, and it tends to want to remove itself from the water, particularly > if it is in a fairly saturated solution, (hope you are doing this outside, > as the gas is quite poisonous!!) it may not last appreciably longer, at > least in an open container. > > You might have trouble finding it in 5 gallon containers, as people usually > use acids in gallon (or smaller) containers; or else by the tank car load. > Too much problem with breakage in a 5-gallon container, I should think. Very > unhandy, as it would almost have to be glass or some sort of specially > acid-resistant coated metal. > You might try contacting Transchem (or True Value) to see what they say. > > Margaret > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > stu@arcrystalmine.com > Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 8:19 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: [Rockhounds] Need Info on Muriatic Acid > > I'm looking for info on Muriatic Acid. I have been using TRANSCHEM Acid > that indicates "Solution 20 Baume (31.45% HCL, 68.55% Inert)". I have been > buying it at True Value for $2.49 a gallon and use about 20 gallon a month > to clean crystals that are covered in heavy limonite. The acid looses its > effectiveness after about 3 uses. I've seen other Muriatic Acid with 20% > HCL and it was more expensive. Can anyone explain what the Baume means and > if a higher % HCL would last longer. Also looking for a source to buy the > Acid in 5 gallon containers. Any recommendations? You can see my "Crystal > Still" cleaning operation on this web page: > http://www.arcrystalmine.com/still.html > > With appreciation & gratitude, > Stuart Schmitt > Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine > www.arcrystalmine.com > 60 Mary's Eagle Trail > Mount Ida, AR 71957 > (870) 867-2443 > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From JScully216 at aol.com Mon Jul 25 14:57:52 2005 From: JScully216 at aol.com (JScully216@aol.com) Date: Mon Jul 25 14:58:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ad: New Phantom Blue Bingham Fluorites on website Message-ID: <19c.37ff46eb.3016ba60@aol.com> Hi, I've Just added several nice specimens of phantom blue fluorite dug last week at our Queen Ann Claim in Bingham, NM. Also a couple of pieces of green fluorite and a galena crystal encrusted with sugar quartz from the Queen Ann. Also, another specimen of goethite from the 60 mine outside of Socorro, and a new enhydro (China). Thanks. _http://www.feraloldguy.com/general.htm_ (http://www.feraloldguy.com/general.htm) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Mon Jul 25 18:09:43 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Jul 25 18:09:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Need Info on Muriatic Acid In-Reply-To: <06C6BFBE.67D3C1D0.02180873@aol.com> References: <06C6BFBE.67D3C1D0.02180873@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050725180336.026370a8@mail.spiritone.com> I used to purchase 5 gallon carboys of muriatic from the local masonry supply business. All they carried were 5 gallon or 30(?) gallon quantities and as I recall they were less than half the price of 5 1-gallon jugs at Home Base at the time. Seems to me that a 30 gallon drum would be the most cost-effective solution for Stuart. You can even buy a plastic pump for those drums that won't corrode. Contractors are switching to the salt based "Safe-T-Etch" product around here anywhere they are near water. The use of muriatic acid for construction close to streams & lakes is prohibited in Oregon and likely in many other states as well. At 11:10 AM 7/25/2005, you wrote: >Baume' is an old way of measuring the density. Acids are often sold with >this notation, but if you have the % HCl you need nothing more since more >% means proportionally more HCl. About 31% is the strongest you can get in >a commercial solution. > >I would check hardware supply and construction supply houses as a big use >for small quantities of Muriatic is in etching concrete to improve >bonding. Some masonry contractors use lots of the stuff. You may be able >to get better prices, even in gallons from such an opteration. A 5 gallon >carbouy of the material is too heavy and cumbersome for most home and >construction uses, but you may be able to get price by buying several >1-gallon jugs at a time. > >Try running more than one batch and use the exhausted acid... after 3 >uses, on a fresh batch of crystals to partially remove the coating. >Chances are you still have a lot of free HCl when you dispose of a batch >of acid but it has become partially spent and does not seem to remove the >limonite. It may help you to stretch the use of the acid just a bit. > >You might also try a chemical distributor, but they may or may not be >willing to sell it to you due to concerns with its safe use. You can >probably get the material in drums but this is going to be a problem >unless you have a means of moving and using the drums. > > >Gene Hartstein >Newark, DE Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From edben at prodigy.net Mon Jul 25 19:51:48 2005 From: edben at prodigy.net (edben) Date: Mon Jul 25 19:51:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Need Info on Muriatic Acid References: <20050725191042.2ADF21E306F@alora.infowest.com> Message-ID: <000501c5918c$f8cab3d0$13059f04@benjamin> Hello, Stuart and the rest - Having spent almost 25 years in the Laboratory supply industry (31 and more years ago!) I guess I'd better "get in the act". The pricing of acids is determined largely by it's purity, much more than by its strength. The Laboratory (or "Reagent") grades are much more expensive, and not a bit better for our use as rockhounds. The so-called "technical grade" is a lower grade often used for non critical laboratory purposes. A "Commercial grade" is still further down the purity grade. Understand that it's "strength", not "purity" that you want for dissolving rock (limestone, for example). As limestone (or other carbonates -- or hydroxides) dissolve (and that's what you're trying to do), the acid is neutralized in direct proportion to the amount of stuff it has dissolved for you. You want the strongest, cheapest acid you can get -- but once you get it to your workplace, it will always be diluted for end use. Hopefully you are already well experience with that. In my day, larger users bought acid by the "Carboy." Carboys were glass, but they were permanently encased in wood for protection. Those glass carboys, I'm sure, are now "history", but I'm sure they have been replaced by today's tough plastics. Don't forget for a minute that concentrated acids can be extremely hazardous, and would never be used "straight" to clean up any rock. But, NEVER add water to acid (When water and acid mix intense heat is released, instantly creating steam -- and blowing acid all over the place -- probably in the face of the pourer! Always slowly and carefully add the acid to the water. The water will heat up, but under control. Use your "Yellow Pages" for "Industrial Chemicals." Then compare their prices with your local "Big Box" Hardware and Lumber Outlets. You may find "Carboys" (Or whatever they may call the larger sizes today) anywhere that supplies Contractors needs (Like brick cleaning!). Ed Benjamin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margaret Malm" To: ; "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 3:10 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Need Info on Muriatic Acid From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Jul 25 20:34:40 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Jul 25 20:34:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Need Info on Muriatic Acid References: <06C6BFBE.67D3C1D0.02180873@aol.com> Message-ID: <42E5AF46.2179@Tomaszewski.net> Stu, You can buy HCl in railroad tankcar units if you have an OSHA compliant facility to ship it to. Check some economic stats and see what industries are using HCl -- it is a big volume commodity and there should be several industries you can tap for the low volumes you need. It gets lots more expensive as the purity goes up, but you don't care as much for purity as you do for concentration. You might want to try using your 'spent' cleaning solution as a pre-cleaner. If it has any HCl left it should do some work, and save you a bit of money you would have otherwise tossed out. Even if it won't clean a full load, you want to use up the last of any HCl you paid for. Maybe a presoak for a few days would do it. Kreigh FOSSILNUT@aol.com wrote: > > Baume' is an old way of measuring the density. Acids are often sold with this notation, but if you have the % HCl you need nothing more since more % means proportionally more HCl. About 31% is the strongest you can get in a commercial solution. > > I would check hardware supply and construction supply houses as a big use for small quantities of Muriatic is in etching concrete to improve bonding. Some masonry contractors use lots of the stuff. You may be able to get better prices, even in gallons from such an opteration. A 5 gallon carbouy of the material is too heavy and cumbersome for most home and construction uses, but you may be able to get price by buying several 1-gallon jugs at a time. > > Try running more than one batch and use the exhausted acid... after 3 uses, on a fresh batch of crystals to partially remove the coating. Chances are you still have a lot of free HCl when you dispose of a batch of acid but it has become partially spent and does not seem to remove the limonite. It may help you to stretch the use of the acid just a bit. > > You might also try a chemical distributor, but they may or may not be willing to sell it to you due to concerns with its safe use. You can probably get the material in drums but this is going to be a problem unless you have a means of moving and using the drums. > > Gene Hartstein > Newark, DE > > In a message dated 7/25/2005 11:34:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, John and Gloria Cornish writes: > > >Hi Stuart, > > > >More will likely respond. I've been getting my Muriatic in 5 gallon > >containers from my local landscape supplier. I just called... $3.15 per > >gallon. I hope this helps, > > > >John > > > >stu@arcrystalmine.com wrote: > > > >> I'm looking for info on Muriatic Acid. ?I have been using TRANSCHEM > >> Acid that indicates "Solution 20 Baume (31.45% HCL, 68.55% Inert)". ?I > >> have been buying it at True Value for $2.49 a gallon and use about 20 > >> gallon a month to clean crystals that are covered in heavy limonite. ? > >> The acid looses its effectiveness after about 3 uses. ?I've seen other > >> Muriatic Acid with 20% HCL and it was more expensive. ?Can anyone > >> explain what the Baume means and if a higher % HCL would last longer. ? > >> Also looking for a source to buy the Acid in 5 gallon containers. ?Any > >> recommendations? ?You can see my "Crystal Still" cleaning operation on > >> this web page: http://www.arcrystalmine.com/still.html > >> > >> With appreciation & gratitude, > >> Stuart Schmitt > >> Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine > >> www.arcrystalmine.com > >> 60 Mary's Eagle Trail > >> Mount Ida, AR 71957 > >> (870) 867-2443 From albalmer at att.net Mon Jul 25 21:11:51 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Mon Jul 25 21:12:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Need Info on Muriatic Acid In-Reply-To: <000501c5918c$f8cab3d0$13059f04@benjamin> References: <20050725191042.2ADF21E306F@alora.infowest.com> <000501c5918c$f8cab3d0$13059f04@benjamin> Message-ID: <42E5B807.2050800@att.net> edben wrote: > > Use your "Yellow Pages" for "Industrial Chemicals." Then compare their > prices with your local "Big Box" Hardware and Lumber Outlets. You may > find "Carboys" (Or whatever they may call the larger sizes today) > anywhere that supplies Contractors needs (Like brick cleaning!). > I had to smile as I read this. I'm familiar with Stuart's neighborhood. Unless things have changed, there aren't any local Big Box stores :-) Maybe in Hot Springs. Stuart, I may get to Mt Ida this year, around Thanksgiving. I'll check to see if the Sweet Surrender is open for digging. From hkrocke at netscape.ca Mon Jul 25 21:51:16 2005 From: hkrocke at netscape.ca (hkrocke) Date: Mon Jul 25 21:53:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhound's Guide to Montana, Base Coordinates... In-Reply-To: <000501c590b8$877b15a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: > If anyone wants a copy to create a basemap from, let me know, and I > will > send it along. > Julie Yes, please send it to me. Thank you. Hilmar --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- From kadok at infowest.com Tue Jul 26 08:14:46 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Tue Jul 26 08:14:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Need Info on Muriatic Acid In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050726151435.8C1E31E3048@alora.infowest.com> Yes, you Re right, Bryan, about the "purity" bit. And I had really forgotten about the possibility of plastic containers. (You can see how long I've been away from my lab!!) Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 12:28 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Need Info on Muriatic Acid Strength but not 'purity' which is expressed by the grade of the acid, what we are talking about here is Technical Grade HCl, which is the common industrial grade. Technical grade has higher levels of impurities than the better grades. Dissolved metals and such. Laboratories use ACS grade and up which is generally 37% HCl. The better the grade the more it costs, we use some ultra-pure grade acid that is over $200 for 500 mL (a pint) bottle. You can easily get larger quantities of acid from chemical supply houses, 15 gallon plastic drums are easy to get ( often called del-drums) as are 30 and 55 gallon drums. I doubt there would be any difficulty buying those either as HCl is not controlled, you'd get the 37% material too which is a bit stronger than the material you are getting. Industrial chemical suppliers usually deliver to your location too, they generally have truck routes which go thru areas on a certain day of the week, outside of major cities. Apperson, Ashland and McKesson are some that we deal with. Bryan On 7/25/05, Margaret Malm wrote: > Hi, Stuart > > Baume' is a measure similar to specific gravity (which may be much more > familiar to you?). Specific gravity is based on the density of water, while > Baume' uses the density of a salt solution. They measure sort of the same > thing, but in a bit different manner. In this case is an indication of its > "purity", or "strength". > > Hydrochloric (Muriatic) acid is made by passing hydrogen chloride (which is > normally a gas) into water, where it sort of dissolves. (Water would be the > "inert" on the label). > > I should think that yours, which at 31.45% HCl has more of the gas in it > that the 20%, should last a bit longer. However, since it (the active part) > IS a gas, and it tends to want to remove itself from the water, particularly > if it is in a fairly saturated solution, (hope you are doing this outside, > as the gas is quite poisonous!!) it may not last appreciably longer, at > least in an open container. > > You might have trouble finding it in 5 gallon containers, as people usually > use acids in gallon (or smaller) containers; or else by the tank car load. > Too much problem with breakage in a 5-gallon container, I should think. Very > unhandy, as it would almost have to be glass or some sort of specially > acid-resistant coated metal. > You might try contacting Transchem (or True Value) to see what they say. > > Margaret > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > stu@arcrystalmine.com > Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 8:19 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: [Rockhounds] Need Info on Muriatic Acid > > I'm looking for info on Muriatic Acid. I have been using TRANSCHEM Acid > that indicates "Solution 20 Baume (31.45% HCL, 68.55% Inert)". I have been > buying it at True Value for $2.49 a gallon and use about 20 gallon a month > to clean crystals that are covered in heavy limonite. The acid looses its > effectiveness after about 3 uses. I've seen other Muriatic Acid with 20% > HCL and it was more expensive. Can anyone explain what the Baume means and > if a higher % HCL would last longer. Also looking for a source to buy the > Acid in 5 gallon containers. Any recommendations? You can see my "Crystal > Still" cleaning operation on this web page: > http://www.arcrystalmine.com/still.html > > With appreciation & gratitude, > Stuart Schmitt > Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine > www.arcrystalmine.com > 60 Mary's Eagle Trail > Mount Ida, AR 71957 > (870) 867-2443 > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jsmall47 at earthlink.net Tue Jul 26 13:34:19 2005 From: jsmall47 at earthlink.net (Jim Small) Date: Tue Jul 26 13:27:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] introduction Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20050726162747.024df4d0@mail.earthlink.net> What a great thing to find a new (to me) list! My wife and I have a lapidary business in the mountains of northeastern Tennessee. We are also members of the local gem and mineral society. Our business falls into three general sections - custom cutting for jewelers, metalsmiths, and antique dealers; the sale of cabbing rough to other cutters; and I teach metalsmithing and gemcutting in our studios. The custom cutting which we do includes pretty much everything except faceting. We have been in our TN mountain home for 3 years now, and have succeeded in building and stocking our new workshops, and are close to completing the renovation of our rough rock barn (a 25' by 50' building which formerly housed a four-stall stable). When it is done we will finish uncrating our 22+ tons of cutting rough, and be open for business selling cabbing rough. After we complete the physical plant, we also intend to move back into the virtual world with a new web site, replacing the one which I formerly had from 1997 through the Spring of 2002. I started my first gemstone collection in the very early 1950s - it consisted of water-tumbled Lake Superior eye agates which I collected in the drainage ditches on our family farm in northwestern Indiana. I got my first real "aggie" shortly after that time. I really caught the rock bug when I was introduced to lapidary in 1960 by my junior high school earth science teacher. My wife was inoculated with the bug by the same teacher, but the "disease" remained latent until she and I re-connected in 2001. With the exception of my five years at college I have always cut stones, and started my first home-based gem and jewelry business in 1977. I started my second one in 1988, and went full-time in 1993. Since then I have slowly added to my cutting stock and my equipment. In May of this year we succeeded in obtaining a bead mill, which completes our "dream shop". I'm really looking forward to exchanging information with the other folks on this list! KOR, Jim Small Small Wonders Lapidary Church Hill, TN --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Bobslgn at aol.com Tue Jul 26 13:45:19 2005 From: Bobslgn at aol.com (Bobslgn@aol.com) Date: Tue Jul 26 13:45:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 14, Issue 27 Message-ID: <1f1.405d18f0.3017fadf@aol.com> In a message dated 7/25/2005 6:03:03 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com writes: http://www.arcrystalmine.com/still.html Re: Crystal cleaning with Muriatic Acid The crystals and their transformation after cleaning is amazing. One concern is what is happening to the spent acid. It is likely that the spent acid has a variety of metal chloride salts and is still very corrosive. If the salt was all iron, ferric chloride, it might be used to etch steel, such as knife blades etc. In any case think carefully about disposal. Bob --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at verizon.net Tue Jul 26 14:30:49 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Jul 26 14:30:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Subject change: was Rockhounds Digest, Vol 14, Issue 27 In-Reply-To: <1f1.405d18f0.3017fadf@aol.com> References: <1f1.405d18f0.3017fadf@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050726112730.036d6080@incoming.verizon.net> Hi Bob, Please change the title in the subject line, especially when you're on digest. "Digest, Vol 14, Issue 27" means nothing to the rest of us. Thanks for your comments on acid disposal. Aloha, Kitty At 10:45 AM 7/26/2005, you wrote: >Re: Crystal cleaning with Muriatic Acid > >The crystals and their transformation after cleaning is amazing. >One concern is what is happening to the spent acid. >It is likely that the spent acid has a variety of metal chloride salts and >is still very corrosive. If the salt was all iron, ferric chloride, >it might >be used to etch steel, such as knife blades etc. In any case think >carefully >about disposal. > >Bob From rutile1 at shelby.net Tue Jul 26 14:42:26 2005 From: rutile1 at shelby.net (Todd Hamrick) Date: Tue Jul 26 14:42:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Spruce Pine Show In-Reply-To: <42DBE4E9.3070803@ncmail.net> References: <42DBE4E9.3070803@ncmail.net> Message-ID: <42E6AE42.6060105@shelby.net> Kenny Gay wrote: > Thanks for the comments regarding the number of mineral collectors. I > realize that an accurate count is almost impossible. > Now: > Are there any list members attending the Spruce Pine Show in western > North Carolina? > The show is as always the first weekend in August, 5th, 6th & 7th. > It would be nice to meet some list members if anyone is going. > I'll be there for the weekend, so just let me know. > Kenny > NCGS > Raleigh, NC > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > I will be there. Todd From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 26 15:46:40 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Tue Jul 26 15:46:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] introduction In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20050726162747.024df4d0@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20050726224640.79546.qmail@web51002.mail.yahoo.com> Jim, Welcome to the list! Where in NW Indiana are you from? I'm in LaPorte County, and there are quite a few Smalls in the area- even a Small Road. Jim Daly Mill Creek, IN > Superior eye agates which I collected in the > drainage ditches on our family > farm in northwestern Indiana. > Jim Small > Small Wonders Lapidary > Church Hill, TN __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Tue Jul 26 17:07:38 2005 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Tue Jul 26 17:07:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] introduction Message-ID: Dang,. I worked in East Chicago, IN for 7 years and never heard of local agates. Now I'M curious too. Gene Hartstein Newark, Delaware In a message dated 7/26/2005 6:47:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, sauktown1@yahoo.com writes: Jim, Welcome to the list! Where in NW Indiana are you from? I'm in LaPorte County, and there are quite a few Smalls in the area- even a Small Road. Jim Daly Mill Creek, IN > Superior eye agates which I collected in the > drainage ditches on our family > farm in northwestern Indiana. > Jim Small > Small Wonders Lapidary > Church Hill, TN --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jayhawkmn at yahoo.com Tue Jul 26 17:20:40 2005 From: jayhawkmn at yahoo.com (June Young) Date: Tue Jul 26 17:20:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhound's Guide to Montana, Base Coordinates... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050727002040.74571.qmail@web30505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thank you, I will take a copy. June --- hkrocke wrote: > > If anyone wants a copy to create a basemap from, > let me know, and I > > will > > send it along. > > Julie > > Yes, please send it to me. Thank you. > > Hilmar > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/enriched > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From rainforest1950 at lycos.com Tue Jul 26 18:43:43 2005 From: rainforest1950 at lycos.com (rain forest) Date: Tue Jul 26 18:43:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Acids Message-ID: <20050727014343.70F05CA07F@ws7-4.us4.outblaze.com> Be care where you place the acid while cleaning. Had a friend who placed the bucket outside and the fumes attacked a pedestal mounted vise. Ate away a third of the cast iron before she realized it David Bese The Rainforest Hippie Pt. Orchard, Wa. "There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some reason in madness." "Turbulence is life force. It is opportunity. Let's love turbulence and use it for change." "Every time you don't follow your inner guidance, you feel a loss of energy, loss of power, a sense of spiritual deadness." -- _______________________________________________ NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com From dwest122 at comcast.net Tue Jul 26 20:43:57 2005 From: dwest122 at comcast.net (Dave West) Date: Tue Jul 26 20:41:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Acids References: <20050727014343.70F05CA07F@ws7-4.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <004d01c5925d$6b640ce0$6600a8c0@davehxbu4rrruh> Good advice. Even better, don't repeat my goof the first time I used Muriatic Acid. Realizing it should not be left out where anybody or anything could get into it, I put an open top, five gallon bucket of rocks and acid in a storage room off my garage and closed the door. You guessed it. A few days later every tool in the room was covered with rust and several were ruined. Don't even ask about the olfactory impact when I opened the door! When I write my memoirs, that will be in the very thick chapter titled, Stupid Things I Have Done. Living and learning, DaveW ----- Original Message ----- From: "rain forest" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 9:43 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Acids > Be care where you place the acid while cleaning. Had a friend who placed the bucket outside and the fumes attacked a pedestal mounted vise. Ate away a third of the cast iron before she realized it > > David Bese > The Rainforest Hippie > Pt. Orchard, Wa. > > "There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some reason in madness." > "Turbulence is life force. It is opportunity. Let's love turbulence and use it for change." > "Every time you don't follow your inner guidance, you feel a loss of energy, loss of power, a sense of spiritual deadness." From jsmall47 at earthlink.net Wed Jul 27 09:02:04 2005 From: jsmall47 at earthlink.net (Jim Small) Date: Wed Jul 27 08:56:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Spruce Pine show; northwestern Indiana; far flung Lakers In-Reply-To: <200507270102.j6R12UFa004689@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200507270102.j6R12UFa004689@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20050727113923.024e4478@mail.earthlink.net> Kenny - We visit the Grassy Creek show in Firemen's Field these years, but have stopped going into Spruce Pine proper. It stopped being a rewarding show for us several years ago. We cannot say enough good things about Grassy Creek though. If you are looking for finished goods and jewelry, Spruce Pine is excellent. Cutting rough is big at Grassy Creek; you can find good specimens both places. Jim - "Hi" to another Hoosier! Actually, I'm technically not, as I was born in San Diego right after WWII, but my entire family on both sides is from Indiana, and we moved back to the family farm outside Otterbein (west of West Lafayette) in 1949. Between my father's Quaker kin and my mother's Mennonite family I have relatives in a huge swath across northern Indiana, with the highest concentration from Peru over to Marion, and then up to North Manchester. If the Smalls in LaPorte County are Quaker extraction we could be cousins, but not closer than third cousins because I know all of my cousins closer than that. Gene - All of the deep soils of northwestern Indian have agates in them, but you have to look in deep ditches or streams to find them. Otherwise, they are buried in gumbo soil. As a three or four year old I used to hang out in the low side of our front field after heavy rains, and when no one was looking I would go under water to search out the pretty pebbles. In two or three years of searching sporadically I accumulated around a dozen eye agates - those were the only ones I kept, and I had no adult advice on what else to look for. I had them lined up on a board nailed to the wall in our machinery barn; they may still be there for all I know. I have since collected similar agates in Iowa and Arkansas, and gotten some nice large ones (one pound and over) from Arkansas. KOR all! Jim Small Small Wonders Lapidary Church Hill, TN From Ted at crystalgems.com Wed Jul 27 10:39:25 2005 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted) Date: Wed Jul 27 10:39:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Need Info on Muriatic Acid In-Reply-To: <000801c5912c$3493b0d0$6400a8c0@STUART> Message-ID: <003201c592d2$0ef1eb10$0200a8c0@gametime> Stu: I'll try to add to the general discussion here, hopefully without muddling the topic. It has been many years since I worked in a lab and I couldn't locate my Chemistry handbook so I'm working with ancient memories and notes from the web. Others on this forum have covered the basics on acid strength, purity and supply fairly well. I believe your particular need is strength of the acid. Purity is less of an issue when you use HCL for cleaning purposes. HCL and other acids are described in terms of percentages or molar concentration. The maximum concentration of Hydrogen Chloride in water is roughly 36.5 molar or 37% solution. Sadly, this confuses many people because it appears that the highest percentage is what is needed. To optimize chemical reactions, acids need to be diluted. Ratios of dilution are dependent on your initial reactives and final products. Important in this discussion; what are the saturation levels of the reactives and products so that you achieve maximum conversion of your reactives to products? This is basically a chemical reaction; simply described as one that converts limonite to solubles to be carried away by the water. Further simplified as: Fe2O3 + Fe + 6HCl ? 3FeCl2 + 3H2O. To me, a driving concern here is when does a water solution of Ferrous Chloride reach saturation level? It does not matter how much HCL is still available in solution for your purposes if you have reached saturation level of the final products. The goal is to derive the "optimal" HCL concentration for your purposes along with sufficient solution room for the final waste products. There are two ways to test this: The first is easiest. After you have wrung your three cleanings out of a batch of acid; add 1/4 of the acid volume in water. PLEASE NOTE: this is described opposite to the actual process. ALWAYS slowly add acid to water and never the other way! Then try another cleaning cycle. Since the HCL is both weaker and more diluted, this cleaning cycle will not be as fast as the first three. Figure on 30-50% more time. Second test: Dilute the HCL prior to using it. Since you will need to try different dilution levels this does take more time but you will reach a surer cleaning concentration. Since Limonite is a complex of oxides and hydroxides; the above chemical formula is way oversimplified. Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists. drizzle.com] On Behalf Of stu@arcrystalmine.com Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 11:19 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Need Info on Muriatic Acid I'm looking for info on Muriatic Acid. I have been using TRANSCHEM Acid that indicates "Solution 20 Baume (31.45% HCL, 68.55% Inert)". I have been buying it at True Value for $2.49 a gallon and use about 20 gallon a month to clean crystals that are covered in heavy limonite. The acid looses its effectiveness after about 3 uses. I've seen other Muriatic Acid with 20% HCL and it was more expensive. Can anyone explain what the Baume means and if a higher % HCL would last longer. Also looking for a source to buy the Acid in 5 gallon containers. Any recommendations? You can see my "Crystal Still" cleaning operation on this web page: http://www.arcrystalmine.com/still.html With appreciation & gratitude, Stuart Schmitt Sweet Surrender Crystal Mine www.arcrystalmine.com 60 Mary's Eagle Trail Mount Ida, AR 71957 (870) 867-2443 _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 27 12:04:30 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Wed Jul 27 12:04:39 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Acids In-Reply-To: <20050727014343.70F05CA07F@ws7-4.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <20050727190430.5021.qmail@web51013.mail.yahoo.com> Absolutely! Any large-scale acid work I do is 50 yards from my house and any shed. It's therefore strictly a warm-weather occupation. Jim Daly --- rain forest wrote: > Be care where you place the acid while cleaning. Had > a friend who placed the bucket outside and the fumes > attacked a pedestal mounted vise. Ate away a third > of the cast iron before she realized it > > David Bese > The Rainforest Hippie > Pt. Orchard, Wa. > > "There is always some madness in love. But there is > also always some reason in madness." > "Turbulence is life force. It is opportunity. Let's > love turbulence and use it for change." > "Every time you don't follow your inner guidance, > you feel a loss of energy, loss of power, a sense of > spiritual deadness." > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search > multiple dating sites at once. > http://datingsearch.lycos.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From rocknate at gmail.com Wed Jul 27 13:35:30 2005 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Wed Jul 27 13:35:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Date for 2005 Open House @ Walworth (NY) Quarry ? Message-ID: Does anyone know if the Dolomite Products group is planning to have an open house this year at their Walworth, NY quarry? They used to have one in early November. Nate Martin From albalmer at att.net Wed Jul 27 14:38:06 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Jul 27 14:38:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Date for 2005 Open House @ Walworth (NY) Quarry ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42E7FEBE.2070408@att.net> Nathan Martin wrote: > Does anyone know if the Dolomite Products group is planning to have an > open house this year at their Walworth, NY quarry? They used to have > one in early November. The RAS Mineral Section used to arrange and conduct Walworth (and Penfield Quarry) trips when I lived there. I don't think they meet during the summer, but you probably can contact somebody. While you're at it, ask them if Vandall King is still there. Rochester Academy of Science - Mineral Section Club Address: 1097 Willis Hill Rd; Victor, NY 14564 Club webpage: VICE PRES: Bob Hiler (585) 787-1585 SECRETARY: Betty Fetter (585) 225-6443 TREASURER: Robert Morgan (716) 654-9153 LIAISON: Chuck Heiler EDITOR: Paul Dudley (585) 385-2368 BULLETIN: The Rockester News MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesday of month at 7:30 P.M. Brighton Town Hall, 2300 Elmwood Av; Brighton, NY SHOW/SWAP: October 22-23, 2005, Minett Hall, Monroe Co Fairgrounds, 3695 E Henrietta Rd; Henrietta, NY From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Jul 27 15:42:07 2005 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Wed Jul 27 15:43:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhound's Guide to Montana, Base Coordinates... References: <001601c590b0$9f54dd30$12b4010a@warren> <000501c590b8$877b15a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <057e01c592fc$73c8a3b0$12b4010a@warren> Thanks for the "dumpster" tip - lol - the county in Idaho where we live is the same way: no garbage pickup, garbage cost is included in taxes, and there are various dumpster sites throughout the county. I use a combination of TopoUSA, Forest Service park maps, Quad maps and Gazeteers to figure out where we are going. (I don't drive, so I'm the navigator - scary, since I have virtually no sense of direction ;-) As always with John and I, prospecting is half the fun, so I'm not TOO worried. Heck, we did Central Oregon in an Acura...I'm sure that someday John will write about the lost-oil-plug-and-oil-replaced-with-a-stick-and-transmission-fluid-50-miles-from-Prineville story. lol Thanks, Jay! Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 6:31 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rockhound's Guide to Montana, Base Coordinates... >I have had difficulty with that book, but not with finding towns like Three > Forks. My problems was with the lack of mileage to various sites. We > started > into Hecla Mining District on a four wheel drive road and after about four > miles of big rocks and washouts we turned back not knowing how close or > far > we were away from Hecla. You really need Forest Service or BLM maps to go > along with the Guide Book or you can not plan very well how far or long > you > have to travel. Fourteen miles of rough four wheel travel is not what I > anticipated for a site in a rockhounding guide book. We were able to find > the right roads usually since the Forest Service and county signs were > pretty good. On another note, you find that it is difficult to find > locations to dump garbage in Montana. Always ask the locals for the > location > of the nearest garbage dumpster sites at every opportunity. From 15430 at ornet.ru Wed Jul 27 11:32:19 2005 From: 15430 at ornet.ru (?????? ??????) Date: Wed Jul 27 15:50:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Drawings, new books. Message-ID: <000b01c592d9$85f37290$8b03010a@max7ljotmm9esc> Dear Mr. Peter J. Mjdreski! Dear colleagues! We invite everyone who is interested in minerals, mineralogy and... the fine arts to visit a new unique Site of the Project "Mineral Drawings". http://mindraw.narod.ru/ Some pictures and information about ouor books you can see in english also on http://www.mineralogist.ru/science/drawing/index.shtml Yours faithfully Victor Slyotov and Vladimir Makarenko (the authors) From tim at orerockon.com Mon Jul 18 05:43:46 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Jul 27 15:50:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free digging areas in central Oregon In-Reply-To: <4B8B7E6D-F70C-11D9-BC7D-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> References: <4B8B7E6D-F70C-11D9-BC7D-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050718054238.0251be18@mail.spiritone.com> You need to spend a whole $35 on my CD :) Seriously, central OR is my hangout. At 02:46 PM 7/17/2005, you wrote: >Hello, > >I am new to your group and a return to the hobby after *mumble*mumble* >years. I am taking my two kids to central Oregon on their first >rockhounding trip. I'd very much appreciate any information on free/ >public digging areas as I'm a grad student on a grad student budget. >:D Also any tips for someone camping/ traveling in that area with 9&11 >year olds. I think I was the same age the last time I was in that >area. Thank you very much!! Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of OR, WA, & ID rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From jaybates at rcn.com Wed Jul 27 16:31:58 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Wed Jul 27 16:30:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhound's Guide to Montana, Base Coordinates... References: <001601c590b0$9f54dd30$12b4010a@warren><000501c590b8$877b15a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <057e01c592fc$73c8a3b0$12b4010a@warren> Message-ID: <000501c59303$624681a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Scary and frustrating. I know. Sometimes my better half navigates and misses the turns. I guess it is too boring to sit there and keep track on the map as you go along. "After all, look at all the pretty scenery." grumble, grumble. Don't they make those little auto compasses for the directionally challanged? I have just about given up using TopoUSA and download from Terraserver. I once hit a rock in a mudhole and got stuck. After I got out of the mudhole I found a hole in my gas tank and hammered a stick into the hole and drove home. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie Siebel" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rockhound's Guide to Montana, Base Coordinates... > Thanks for the "dumpster" tip - lol - the county in Idaho where we live is > the same way: no garbage pickup, garbage cost is included in taxes, and > there are various dumpster sites throughout the county. > > I use a combination of TopoUSA, Forest Service park maps, Quad maps and > Gazeteers to figure out where we are going. (I don't drive, so I'm the > navigator - scary, since I have virtually no sense of direction ;-) > > As always with John and I, prospecting is half the fun, so I'm not TOO > worried. Heck, we did Central Oregon in an Acura...I'm sure that someday > John will write about the > lost-oil-plug-and-oil-replaced-with-a-stick-and-transmission-fluid-50-miles- from-Prineville > story. lol > > Thanks, Jay! > > Julie > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jaybates" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 6:31 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rockhound's Guide to Montana, Base Coordinates... > > > >I have had difficulty with that book, but not with finding towns like Three > > Forks. My problems was with the lack of mileage to various sites. We > > started > > into Hecla Mining District on a four wheel drive road and after about four > > miles of big rocks and washouts we turned back not knowing how close or > > far > > we were away from Hecla. You really need Forest Service or BLM maps to go > > along with the Guide Book or you can not plan very well how far or long > > you > > have to travel. Fourteen miles of rough four wheel travel is not what I > > anticipated for a site in a rockhounding guide book. We were able to find > > the right roads usually since the Forest Service and county signs were > > pretty good. On another note, you find that it is difficult to find > > locations to dump garbage in Montana. Always ask the locals for the > > location > > of the nearest garbage dumpster sites at every opportunity. > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.5/58 - Release Date: 7/25/05 > > From jayhawkmn at yahoo.com Wed Jul 27 18:31:17 2005 From: jayhawkmn at yahoo.com (June Young) Date: Wed Jul 27 18:31:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] email Message-ID: <20050728013118.44385.qmail@web30505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> >From time to time, I receive a large batch of email. I do not receive digest form. Some of these are 2 weeks old. I am just curious as to where they have been for 2 weeks. It is only for this list that occurs. Thanks for some input. June ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jul 27 19:38:59 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jul 27 19:39:01 2005 Subject: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] email References: <20050728013118.44385.qmail@web30505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42E8453C.4D72@Tomaszewski.net> June Young wrote: > > >From time to time, I receive a large batch of email. > I do not receive digest form. Some of these are 2 > weeks old. I am just curious as to where they have > been for 2 weeks. It is only for this list that > occurs. > Thanks for some input. > June June, The only way to confidently answer your question is to look at the hidden email headers on some of the messages you received that were delayed. Each email server that handles a message during delivery adds a hidden 'Received' header, with a timestamp, to the front of the (hidden) header lines. By reviewing the chain of Received headers you can determine which server delayed the message, or if there is a header forgery (and therefor the message is spam), and determine where it actually originated. BTW, email was designed as a 'store and forward' technology that anticipated/expected server and network failures. Most servers will attempt delivery of a message every half hour for three to five days (defaults vary) before giving up. Delayed messages are much less common than they used to be, and most people now expect almost instant delivery. But I can take an educated guess at the cause without additional details. The Rockhounds@Drizzle.com List's Management is in transition. Aaron, the current/past administrator, has been pretty busy recently (I'm trying to be polite -- I wouldn't want the schedule he is reported as having). The combined result is that routine list management functions, such as checking posts held for various administrative and spam rules, is happening at less than the normal frequency, and the list transition is taking too long. The result is batches of released mail, some that may be a week or two old. This should improve once the new team of administrators finish their training, and the transition; a few irregularities are better than no list at all. Kreigh From rainforest1950 at lycos.com Wed Jul 27 19:57:48 2005 From: rainforest1950 at lycos.com (rain forest) Date: Wed Jul 27 19:57:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Leaks Message-ID: <20050728025748.56AE0C6119@ws7-5.us4.outblaze.com> You do know that chewing gum will turn rock hard in the presence of gasoline. Always carry a pack when off road. David Bese The Rainforest Hippie Pt. Orchard, Wa. "There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some reason in madness." "Turbulence is life force. It is opportunity. Let's love turbulence and use it for change." "Every time you don't follow your inner guidance, you feel a loss of energy, loss of power, a sense of spiritual deadness." -- _______________________________________________ NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com From rockcurrier at cs.com Wed Jul 27 22:12:30 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Wed Jul 27 22:06:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cleaning with hydrochloric acid References: <200507280104.j6S14Tqt028543@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <00a201c59332$f7f0f9e0$2eeaa5d8@rock5> I debated a long time with myself if I should chip in my two bits worth on the acid cleaning thread that has been going on. For about ten years of my youth I used to manufacture chemical reagents for hospital laboratories. These were mostly water based solutions that often had one or more of the common acids as their main ingredients. Everything from very week, but exactly calibrated acid solutions to very concentrated solutions like aqua regia which would eat up more than you would imagine if you spill it on things. Often the solutions were in batches up to about 500 gallons and as you can imagine, no matter how careful you are, some of the chemicals get where you don't want them, like on you or your clothing. Often you would not know about the accidental spill till you put your cloths in the laundry and after taking the clothing from the dryer you would notice nice little round holes that had been eaten in the cloth by the chemicals (usually acids or alkalis). That was just something you got used to and was not particularly notable except when you got the same undershirt matched up with the same shirt and then there would be a nice ventilation hole right through to your skin. All this was before the advent of OSHA and careful disposal of reagents has created a sea change in the chemical industry, the shipping of chemicals, their disposal, handling and even the way chemistry is taught in schools. When using acid of any kind you should use at the very least rubber gloves and some sort of eye protection. If you are using concentrated hydrochloric acid, I would recommend that you work in an area where there is a constant breeze away from where you are using the acid and away from other people. You should never open a bottle of any chemical reagent and stick your nose in the opening and take a sniff. With acids like hydrochloric acid, I can guarantee, you will only do it once. This is an experience you should definitely spare yourself. Probably right up there with peeing on an electric fence although I have never done that particular trick. Concentrated hydrochloric acid will generate choking fumes when being poured from one container to the other, but just what volume of fumes depends on the concentration of the acid, its temperature and even the humidity. If possible keep a garden hose, with the water running from it handy in case you need to grab it quickly to flush spilled acid from your skin or clothing. If you are using rubber gloves, before you put them on, blow them up and carefully examine them to make sure they are air tight. When rubber gloves get a little old, it is common for the rubber to crack, often between the fingers where you won't notice it very much. This can be especially dangerous if you are working with hydrofluoric acid which I consider to be a very dangerous and nasty acid that I only work with if nothing else will do. If you spill acid on yourself you should immediately flush the area with LOTS of water and repeat it several times. Acid has a way of lodging itself in your skin and clothing that a quick rinse will not completely remove. Hydrochloric acid (muriatic acid) is the same acid that your stomach uses to digest your food, so dilute hydrochloric acid is not something to be scared of particularly. If you spill acid on yourself, and don't know it, often the first signs are that you will start to itch and after you scratch yourself, it will itch some more and eventually start to burn. If you are using acid and start to itch, make careful note of where you are scratching and if it continues, flush the area with a lot of water. When I spill hydrochloric acid on my hands, I will wash them carefully with water and then "taste" the skin. If there is the least bit of sour taste I know that I have not yet managed to get all the acid off my skin and rinse with more water. You should pay particular attention to the skin just under your fingernails. If you leave even a weak acid solution on your clothing, the solution will dry out and the acid will concentrate itself when the water evaporated and it will often succeed in eating up the fabric enough so that you next wash it, a hole will appear. When you are cleaning minerals with hydrochloric acid or other reagents you should at first clean the specimens with soap and water as well as you can. A pressure blaster of some kind is highly recommended. If you have access to one, you should also consider using a "sand blaster" of some kind to remove "dirt" that may not be easily cleaned off with water. Often times, local metal working shops or auto repair shops will have "sand" blasting units that you may be able to borrow. You don't want to use real sand in a sand blaster as sand is generally made from tiny angular fragments to quartz, which will damage most specimens you will want to clean. You will need to use tiny glass beads which are good for cleaning things like quartz, tourmaline, beryl, amazonite, pyrite etc. Glass has a hardness of about five and a half and glass beads are less aggressive than crushed glass which is made up of angular fragments. For minerals softer than five and a half you will need to use powders that are softer so you won't damage the specimens you want to clean. Bicarbonate of soda is a nice general purpose cleaner that can be used to clean softer material, but if you have no experience in cleaning a particular mineral, always look up its hardness so you can estimate what kind of powder "sand" to use. Always experiment on a poor specimen of the material before you put the better ones under the gun. Cleaning specimens with soap and water, a pressure gun and "sand" blasting will go a long way toward allowing you to use less acid. After thorough cleaning, when you do put them in acid, they will clean more quickly and thoroughly than uncleaned specimens. If you have ever had to clean large amounts of amazonite you will know what I mean. For some reason there is a tendency to think that you really don't need to clean your specimens carefully if you are going to clean them with acid. Save yourself a lot of grief and clean them as well as you can before putting them in acid. After you have cleaned your specimens you need to deal with what you are going to do with the partially spent or completely spent acid. Other people on the board have already commented about being careful about where you store your acid solution and the rusty results of storing it in places with metal in its vicinity. For centuries the classical way of getting rid of chemicals has been to dump it into a hole in the ground or any convenient lake, pond or river. This is no longer an acceptable option. Fortunately, hydrochloric acid is easy to neutralize with limestone or marble chips (calcite). Add these to the spent acid and when it stops bubbling it will be fairly well neutralized. Just to be sure, you can check the PH with a little bit of PH testing paper. It should have a PH of between 6 and 8. But remember, clean your specimens as well as you possibly can before you use acid. Rock From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Thu Jul 28 07:16:40 2005 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Thu Jul 28 07:16:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cleaning with hydrochloric acid Message-ID: <79351802.1ACC6EC4.02180873@aol.com> Excellent summary Rock. I might also add that if the specimen can tolerate water and scrubbing, consider using a good surfactant for soaking and scrubbing the specimen. Clays and shales especially can often be lifted off specimens, even when other methods, including acid, fail. If you can get a good quality industrial or mineral grade non-ionic surfactant by all means do so. As a fossil collector I have a good supply of these, though I can no longer recall where I purchased all of them> In a pinch use a good, shampoo without conditioners (It should be transparent not milky) or a good dishwashing liquid. Stay away from household cleaning products and especially from laundry detergents as the latter usually contain fluoprescent dyes that will affect how the specimen looks. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE In a message dated 7/28/2005 1:12:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "Rock Currier" writes: > > ? ?I debated a long time with myself if I should chip in my two bits worth >on the acid cleaning thread that has been going on. For about ten years of >my youth I used to manufacture chemical reagents for hospital laboratories. >These were mostly water based solutions that often had one or more of the >common acids as their main ingredients. Everything from very week, but >exactly calibrated acid solutions to very concentrated solutions like aqua >regia which would eat up more than you would imagine if you spill it on >things. Often the solutions were in batches up to about 500 gallons and as >you can imagine, no matter how careful you are, some of the chemicals get >where you don't want them, like on you or your clothing. Often you would not >know about the accidental spill till you put your cloths in the laundry and >after taking the clothing from the dryer you would notice nice little round >holes that had been eaten in the cloth by the chemicals (usually acids or >alkalis). That was just something you got used to and was not particularly >notable except when you got the same undershirt matched up with the same >shirt and then there would be a nice ventilation hole right through to your >skin. > > ? ?All this was before the advent of OSHA and careful disposal of reagents >has created a sea change in the chemical industry, the shipping of >chemicals, their disposal, handling and even the way chemistry is taught in >schools. When using acid of any kind you should use at the very least rubber >gloves and some sort of eye protection. If you are using concentrated >hydrochloric acid, I would recommend that you work in an area where there is >a constant breeze away from where you are using the acid and away from other >people. You should never open a bottle of any chemical reagent and stick >your nose in the opening and take a sniff. With acids like hydrochloric >acid, I can guarantee, you will only do it once. This is an experience you >should definitely spare yourself. Probably right up there with peeing on an >electric fence although I have never done that particular trick. >Concentrated hydrochloric acid will generate choking fumes when being poured >from one container to the other, but just what volume of fumes depends on >the concentration of the acid, its temperature and even the humidity. If >possible keep a garden hose, with the water running from it handy in case >you need to grab it quickly to flush spilled acid from your skin or >clothing. If you are using rubber gloves, before you put them on, blow them >up and carefully examine them to make sure they are air tight. When rubber >gloves get a little old, it is common for the rubber to crack, often between >the fingers where you won't notice it very much. This can be especially >dangerous if you are working with hydrofluoric acid which I consider to be a >very dangerous and nasty acid that I only work with if nothing else will do. >If you spill acid on yourself you should immediately flush the area with >LOTS of water and repeat it several times. Acid has a way of lodging itself >in your skin and clothing that a quick rinse will not completely remove. >Hydrochloric acid (muriatic ?acid) is the same acid that your stomach uses >to digest your food, so dilute hydrochloric acid is not something to be >scared of particularly. If you spill acid on yourself, and don't know it, >often the first signs are that you will start to itch and after you scratch >yourself, it will itch some more and eventually start to burn. If you are >using acid and start to itch, make careful note of where you are scratching >and if it continues, flush the area with a lot of water. When I spill >hydrochloric acid on my hands, I will wash them carefully with water and >then "taste" the skin. If there is the least bit of sour taste I know that I >have not yet managed to get all the acid off my skin and rinse with more >water. You should pay particular attention to the skin just under your >fingernails. If you leave even a weak acid solution on your clothing, the >solution will dry out and the acid will concentrate itself when the water >evaporated and it will often succeed in eating up the fabric enough so that >you next wash it, a hole will appear. > > ? ?When you are cleaning minerals with hydrochloric acid or other reagents >you should at first clean the specimens with soap and water as well as you >can. A pressure blaster of some kind is highly recommended. If you have >access to one, you should also consider using a "sand blaster" of some kind >to remove "dirt" that may not be easily cleaned off with water. Often times, >local metal working shops or auto repair shops will have "sand" blasting >units that you may be able to borrow. You don't want to use real sand in a >sand blaster as sand is generally made from tiny angular fragments to >quartz, which will damage most specimens you will want to clean. You will >need to use tiny glass beads which are good for cleaning things like quartz, >tourmaline, beryl, amazonite, pyrite etc. Glass has a hardness of about five >and a half and glass beads are less aggressive than crushed glass which is >made up of angular fragments. For minerals softer than five and a half you >will need to use powders that are softer so you won't damage the specimens >you want to clean. Bicarbonate of soda is a nice general purpose cleaner >that can be used to clean softer material, but if you have no experience in >cleaning a particular mineral, always look up its hardness so you can >estimate what kind of powder "sand" to use. Always experiment on a poor >specimen of the material before you put the better ones under the gun. > > ? ?Cleaning specimens with soap and water, a pressure gun and "sand" >blasting will go a long way toward allowing you to use less acid. After >thorough cleaning, when you do put them in acid, they will clean more >quickly and thoroughly than uncleaned specimens. If you have ever had to >clean large amounts of amazonite you will know what I mean. For some reason >there is a tendency to think that you really don't need to clean your >specimens carefully if you are going to clean them with acid. Save yourself >a lot of grief and clean them as well as you can before putting them in >acid. > > ? ?After you have cleaned your specimens you need to deal with what you are >going to do with the partially spent or completely spent acid. Other people >on the board have already commented about being careful about where you >store your acid solution and the rusty results of storing it in places with >metal in its vicinity. For centuries the classical way of getting rid of >chemicals has been to dump it into a hole in the ground or any convenient >lake, pond or river. This is no longer an acceptable option. Fortunately, >hydrochloric acid is easy to neutralize with limestone or marble chips >(calcite). Add these to the spent acid and when it stops bubbling it will be >fairly well neutralized. Just to be sure, you can check the PH with a little >bit of PH testing paper. It should have a PH of between 6 and 8. But >remember, clean your specimens as well as you possibly can before you use >acid. > >Rock > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From albalmer at att.net Thu Jul 28 07:59:02 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Jul 28 07:59:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhound's Guide to Montana, Base Coordinates... In-Reply-To: <000501c59303$624681a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> References: <001601c590b0$9f54dd30$12b4010a@warren><000501c590b8$877b15a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <057e01c592fc$73c8a3b0$12b4010a@warren> <000501c59303$624681a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <42E8F2B6.6060803@att.net> jaybates wrote: > Scary and frustrating. I know. Sometimes my better half navigates and misses > the turns. I guess it is too boring to sit there and keep track on the map > as you go along. "After all, look at all the pretty scenery." grumble, > grumble. Don't they make those little auto compasses for the directionally > challanged? > Even better, they make GPS units for auto travel. I've been using one for years, and can't imagine traveling without it. From agesilaus at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 08:21:42 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Jul 28 08:21:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhound's Guide to Montana, Base Coordinates... In-Reply-To: <42E8F2B6.6060803@att.net> References: <001601c590b0$9f54dd30$12b4010a@warren> <000501c590b8$877b15a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <057e01c592fc$73c8a3b0$12b4010a@warren> <000501c59303$624681a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <42E8F2B6.6060803@att.net> Message-ID: Or you can get a gps add on for your notebook computer like the Earthmate, a much better solution IMHO. BK On 7/28/05, Al Balmer wrote: > jaybates wrote: > > Scary and frustrating. I know. Sometimes my better half navigates and misses > > the turns. I guess it is too boring to sit there and keep track on the map > > as you go along. "After all, look at all the pretty scenery." grumble, > > grumble. Don't they make those little auto compasses for the directionally > > challanged? > > > Even better, they make GPS units for auto travel. I've been using one > for years, and can't imagine traveling without it. > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From albalmer at att.net Thu Jul 28 08:55:36 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Jul 28 08:55:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhound's Guide to Montana, Base Coordinates... In-Reply-To: References: <001601c590b0$9f54dd30$12b4010a@warren> <000501c590b8$877b15a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <057e01c592fc$73c8a3b0$12b4010a@warren> <000501c59303$624681a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <42E8F2B6.6060803@att.net> Message-ID: <42E8FFF8.4010300@att.net> J Bryan Kramer wrote: > Or you can get a gps add on for your notebook computer like the > Earthmate, a much better solution IMHO. I have to disagree, at least for my purposes. The Earthmate is cheap, and fairly good, but requires the laptop. My StreetPilot has it's own screen and can be carried in the field, operating off batteries, but can also be used with the laptop. Also, when collecting in the Arizona mountains, I drive a small 4-wheel drive vehicle (Chevy Tracker) and there's simply no room for a laptop. OTOH, when traveling with the RV, I do use a laptop with the StreetPilot and Delorme's Street Atlas and Topo software. > > BK > > On 7/28/05, Al Balmer wrote: > >>jaybates wrote: >> >>>Scary and frustrating. I know. Sometimes my better half navigates and misses >>>the turns. I guess it is too boring to sit there and keep track on the map >>>as you go along. "After all, look at all the pretty scenery." grumble, >>>grumble. Don't they make those little auto compasses for the directionally >>>challanged? >>> >> >>Even better, they make GPS units for auto travel. I've been using one >>for years, and can't imagine traveling without it. From kadok at infowest.com Thu Jul 28 08:57:50 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Thu Jul 28 08:57:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cleaning with hydrochloric acid In-Reply-To: <00a201c59332$f7f0f9e0$2eeaa5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <20050728155750.10B06A1028@marbella.infowest.com> Thanks, Rock. An excellent treatise that everyone who works with acids (and alkalis, too) should read and heed! Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Rock Currier Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 10:13 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Cleaning with hydrochloric acid I debated a long time with myself if I should chip in my two bits worth on the acid cleaning thread that has been going on. For about ten years of my youth I used to manufacture chemical reagents for hospital laboratories. These were mostly water based solutions that often had one or more of the common acids as their main ingredients. Everything from very week, but exactly calibrated acid solutions to very concentrated solutions like aqua regia which would eat up more than you would imagine if you spill it on things. Often the solutions were in batches up to about 500 gallons and as you can imagine, no matter how careful you are, some of the chemicals get where you don't want them, like on you or your clothing. Often you would not know about the accidental spill till you put your cloths in the laundry and after taking the clothing from the dryer you would notice nice little round holes that had been eaten in the cloth by the chemicals (usually acids or alkalis). That was just something you got used to and was not particularly notable except when you got the same undershirt matched up with the same shirt and then there would be a nice ventilation hole right through to your skin. All this was before the advent of OSHA and careful disposal of reagents has created a sea change in the chemical industry, the shipping of chemicals, their disposal, handling and even the way chemistry is taught in schools. When using acid of any kind you should use at the very least rubber gloves and some sort of eye protection. If you are using concentrated hydrochloric acid, I would recommend that you work in an area where there is a constant breeze away from where you are using the acid and away from other people. You should never open a bottle of any chemical reagent and stick your nose in the opening and take a sniff. With acids like hydrochloric acid, I can guarantee, you will only do it once. This is an experience you should definitely spare yourself. Probably right up there with peeing on an electric fence although I have never done that particular trick. Concentrated hydrochloric acid will generate choking fumes when being poured from one container to the other, but just what volume of fumes depends on the concentration of the acid, its temperature and even the humidity. If possible keep a garden hose, with the water running from it handy in case you need to grab it quickly to flush spilled acid from your skin or clothing. If you are using rubber gloves, before you put them on, blow them up and carefully examine them to make sure they are air tight. When rubber gloves get a little old, it is common for the rubber to crack, often between the fingers where you won't notice it very much. This can be especially dangerous if you are working with hydrofluoric acid which I consider to be a very dangerous and nasty acid that I only work with if nothing else will do. If you spill acid on yourself you should immediately flush the area with LOTS of water and repeat it several times. Acid has a way of lodging itself in your skin and clothing that a quick rinse will not completely remove. Hydrochloric acid (muriatic acid) is the same acid that your stomach uses to digest your food, so dilute hydrochloric acid is not something to be scared of particularly. If you spill acid on yourself, and don't know it, often the first signs are that you will start to itch and after you scratch yourself, it will itch some more and eventually start to burn. If you are using acid and start to itch, make careful note of where you are scratching and if it continues, flush the area with a lot of water. When I spill hydrochloric acid on my hands, I will wash them carefully with water and then "taste" the skin. If there is the least bit of sour taste I know that I have not yet managed to get all the acid off my skin and rinse with more water. You should pay particular attention to the skin just under your fingernails. If you leave even a weak acid solution on your clothing, the solution will dry out and the acid will concentrate itself when the water evaporated and it will often succeed in eating up the fabric enough so that you next wash it, a hole will appear. When you are cleaning minerals with hydrochloric acid or other reagents you should at first clean the specimens with soap and water as well as you can. A pressure blaster of some kind is highly recommended. If you have access to one, you should also consider using a "sand blaster" of some kind to remove "dirt" that may not be easily cleaned off with water. Often times, local metal working shops or auto repair shops will have "sand" blasting units that you may be able to borrow. You don't want to use real sand in a sand blaster as sand is generally made from tiny angular fragments to quartz, which will damage most specimens you will want to clean. You will need to use tiny glass beads which are good for cleaning things like quartz, tourmaline, beryl, amazonite, pyrite etc. Glass has a hardness of about five and a half and glass beads are less aggressive than crushed glass which is made up of angular fragments. For minerals softer than five and a half you will need to use powders that are softer so you won't damage the specimens you want to clean. Bicarbonate of soda is a nice general purpose cleaner that can be used to clean softer material, but if you have no experience in cleaning a particular mineral, always look up its hardness so you can estimate what kind of powder "sand" to use. Always experiment on a poor specimen of the material before you put the better ones under the gun. Cleaning specimens with soap and water, a pressure gun and "sand" blasting will go a long way toward allowing you to use less acid. After thorough cleaning, when you do put them in acid, they will clean more quickly and thoroughly than uncleaned specimens. If you have ever had to clean large amounts of amazonite you will know what I mean. For some reason there is a tendency to think that you really don't need to clean your specimens carefully if you are going to clean them with acid. Save yourself a lot of grief and clean them as well as you can before putting them in acid. After you have cleaned your specimens you need to deal with what you are going to do with the partially spent or completely spent acid. Other people on the board have already commented about being careful about where you store your acid solution and the rusty results of storing it in places with metal in its vicinity. For centuries the classical way of getting rid of chemicals has been to dump it into a hole in the ground or any convenient lake, pond or river. This is no longer an acceptable option. Fortunately, hydrochloric acid is easy to neutralize with limestone or marble chips (calcite). Add these to the spent acid and when it stops bubbling it will be fairly well neutralized. Just to be sure, you can check the PH with a little bit of PH testing paper. It should have a PH of between 6 and 8. But remember, clean your specimens as well as you possibly can before you use acid. Rock _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 28 10:45:37 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Thu Jul 28 10:45:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cleaning with hydrochloric acid References: <79351802.1ACC6EC4.02180873@aol.com> Message-ID: <000901c5939c$2a61a230$78f1edc1@mpc1> >Clays and shales especially can often be lifted off specimens, even when >other methods, including acid, fail. Nappy cleanser can work too. Oh, that's diapers isn't it? If any one uses them anymore,,, From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 28 10:46:38 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Thu Jul 28 10:46:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] email References: <20050728013118.44385.qmail@web30505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000f01c5939c$4efb7210$78f1edc1@mpc1> Some of them I don't get at all, just the replies. Odd that. Mick From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Thu Jul 28 01:39:43 2005 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Thu Jul 28 11:10:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhound's Guide to Montana, Base Coordinates... References: <001601c590b0$9f54dd30$12b4010a@warren><000501c590b8$877b15a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <057e01c592fc$73c8a3b0$12b4010a@warren> Message-ID: <000201c5939f$ab6281d0$423e27c4@privatehome> Hi there, We used to plug a leak in the gas tank with "Sunlight" soap.. Works like a dream. Regards, Horst from sunny South Africa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie Siebel" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:42 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rockhound's Guide to Montana, Base Coordinates... > Thanks for the "dumpster" tip - lol - the county in Idaho where we live is > the same way: no garbage pickup, garbage cost is included in taxes, and > there are various dumpster sites throughout the county. > > I use a combination of TopoUSA, Forest Service park maps, Quad maps and > Gazeteers to figure out where we are going. (I don't drive, so I'm the > navigator - scary, since I have virtually no sense of direction ;-) > > As always with John and I, prospecting is half the fun, so I'm not TOO > worried. Heck, we did Central Oregon in an Acura...I'm sure that someday > John will write about the > lost-oil-plug-and-oil-replaced-with-a-stick-and-transmission-fluid-50-miles-from-Prineville > story. lol > > Thanks, Jay! > > Julie > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jaybates" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 6:31 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rockhound's Guide to Montana, Base > Coordinates... > > >>I have had difficulty with that book, but not with finding towns like >>Three >> Forks. My problems was with the lack of mileage to various sites. We >> started >> into Hecla Mining District on a four wheel drive road and after about >> four >> miles of big rocks and washouts we turned back not knowing how close or >> far >> we were away from Hecla. You really need Forest Service or BLM maps to go >> along with the Guide Book or you can not plan very well how far or long >> you >> have to travel. Fourteen miles of rough four wheel travel is not what I >> anticipated for a site in a rockhounding guide book. We were able to find >> the right roads usually since the Forest Service and county signs were >> pretty good. On another note, you find that it is difficult to find >> locations to dump garbage in Montana. Always ask the locals for the >> location >> of the nearest garbage dumpster sites at every opportunity. > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From roughrock at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 11:44:10 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Thu Jul 28 11:44:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free digging at the Spectrum Mine Message-ID: Hello, A couple weeks ago we stopped at the free dig at the Spectrum Mine, 27 miles north of Plush, OR. I was using the map from their website (http://www.highdesertgemsandminerals.com/) and I thought it was a very good map. The only thing that might cause confusion was the 9.1 mile drive from Plush. I was not certain if 9.1 miles meant from Plush or from the end of pavement. At about 9.1 miles from Plush there is an official sign pointing right with the words "Sunstone Area." After that just follow the signs. The biggest thing to be seen out there is the Dust Devil Mine. About 100 yards past their entrance is a road to the right that goes to the public bathrooms, in the public area open for sunstone collecting. About half way from the main road to the bathroom there's a fork to the left. That goes to the Spectrum. There are two or three trailers, a conveyor belt, and other equipment visible so just follow the road. By the time we got there it was late afternoon. When we parked my 12 year old grandson, Jesse, jumped out and immediately started picking up clear sunstones. If you have ever been to Topaz Mountain on a sunny day you already know how little things can sparkle in the sun. Imagine all those clear topaz crystals scattered in a sage brush desert and you have a good picture of the Spectrum. It is easy to see them as they sparkle and shine -- but keeping them in sight until you bend over and grab them is a little tricky. When the sun is right one sunstone glitters so much it looks like a golf ball but when you get it between your fingers it's a little smaller. Actually it's a whole lot smaller. By the time Jessica, the mine manager, got to our motor home to say hello, Jesse had 10 or 15 small sunstones. She looked through his small stash and pointed out one that had a drop of red in one end and a little green in another spot. He proudly pointed out a larger one with a pink tint. She wiped off the dust (and rust) and it became another clear sunstone. Jesse and I were both learning. Unfortunately, Chris Rose was mining variscite in Nevada so I didn't get to meet him. The following day was cloudy, great weather for shoveling dirt. There were huge white clouds in an azure sky. Jesse got an early start. He shoveled buckets of dirt through the screen and found sunstones almost every time. Most were clear but some had a small dot of color. One was pretty large and pink, probably as large as a large olive. Another person who was in one of the pits came out with a very large schiller. I didn't ever hear any weight for it, but it looked about the size of a cork from a wine bottle. By the end of the day Jesse had filled a 16 ounce plastic water bottle with sunstones, and he put some others into a baggie. He thought it was a worthwhile return for the amount of digging he had done. Darla and I did most of our digging in my wallet, buying one faceted sunstone (a marquise cut.) We also bought some other shiny things Jessica had for sale. There was some nice green apitite from Durango, Mexico, almost the color of key lime pie. We left the next morning but stopped at the Dust Devil to meet the people and order some bracelets made with sunstone beads. Last year I bought 3 or 4 bracelets made by the Dust Devil -- but sold by the jewelry store in Lakeview. They were very popular Christmas presents with several teenage girls. I wanted to get a few more. Terry told they were sold out and waiting for the beads to come back from China. He said the rough he sent over this year was better quality and he had ordered several different styles of beads. I'll have to wait and see if the price is still right for Christmas presents for teenagers. I bought some cutting rough, variscite and chrysocolla. I also stopped at the Lakeview Rockshop. I bought a specimen of tracinite there, just to have a piece. She has very good prices and many different types of rock. There is even one table of scraps that sell for ten cents per pound. I found a lot of small pieces that I can give my grandchildren. If you go to the Spectrum it can be very hot but hard work will be rewarded. There are abundant large, colorful sunstones there -- but you have to work to get them. And Jessica is a very nice person and a charming hostess. Just don't try to keep up with her unless you are in real good shape and able to work hard in the heat. She is in constant motion, greeting guest, selling things at the store, or down in a pit digging. And after a long, hot, dusty day she still has her smile. That's another of the treasures from the Spectrum Mine. I was paying about $2.50 per gallon for the gas on this trip -- but the free dig at the Spectrum turned my grandson into a rockhound. It was worth every penny. Thanks to Chris and Jessica for letting us dig. Grant Johnston, Chico, CA From kahako at verizon.net Thu Jul 28 12:32:40 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Jul 28 12:32:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free digging at the Spectrum Mine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050728093116.034e0530@incoming.verizon.net> Grant, thanks for the great trip report. Makes us wish we could go. Maybe someday... Aloha, Kitty At 08:44 AM 7/28/2005, you wrote: >Hello, > >A couple weeks ago we stopped at the free dig at the Spectrum Mine, 27 >miles north of Plush, OR. I was using the map from their website >(http://www.highdesertgemsandminerals.com/) and I thought it was a >very good map. The only thing that might cause confusion was the 9.1 >mile drive from Plush. I was not certain if 9.1 miles meant from >Plush or from the end of pavement. At about 9.1 miles from Plush >there is an official sign pointing right with the words "Sunstone >Area." After that just follow the signs. From kahako at verizon.net Thu Jul 28 13:20:59 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Jul 28 13:21:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050728100014.034f6e50@incoming.verizon.net> Hi all, Here's a bit that recently appeared in our local newspaper, the Hawaii Tribute-Herald, under a daily column "This day in history." It is of interest in several ways. First, it speaks of "rainbow lava," and I've been finding iridescent lava at lava flows from 1969 and 1990, so this was obviously from much earlier, probably explosive activity in Halema'uma'u crater which began in 1924. Second, the Hawaii Tourist Bureau, with the assistance of the Park Superintendent was sending pieces of lava to the mainland...which verifies our opinion that the "Pele's Curse" had not been created yet at that time. And third, it's neat to think of these organizations encouraging school children back then to become interested in geology. Enjoy! Aloha, Kitty "This day in history: July 26, 1930: "The popularity on the mainland of Pele, Hawaiian fire goddess, has been indicated by the numerous requests for samples of the volcano, which have followed the Hawaii Tourist Bureau's plan of sending pieces of rainbow lava to a limited number of school children and travel prospects outside of the territory. A small one-page pamphlet describing the volcano and the Big Island section of the national park is sent with the volcanic specimens which are being sent out by the tourist bureau through an arrangement with Park Superintendent Thomas Allen who is furnishing the pieces of rainbow lava." From MCGINNISG at aol.com Thu Jul 28 17:46:55 2005 From: MCGINNISG at aol.com (MCGINNISG@aol.com) Date: Thu Jul 28 17:47:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Field Trip Reports Message-ID: <214.5b1c493.301ad67f@aol.com> I would like to encourage everyone to make more field trip reports. Please try to be specific, especially about mileage and where the mileage begins. As with Grant Johnston?s report, there was a question was to just where the mileage began. Reports, such as Grant Johnston?s, are wonderful for he also included local information including rock shops and what the rock shops offer. Opinions like: Was it worth it? Would I go again? Warnings and suggestion! These are all very valuable and welcome. Personally, I share all collecting information about any location with any responsible rockhound. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Thu Jul 28 18:10:00 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Jul 28 18:10:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhound's Guide to Montana, Base Coordinates... In-Reply-To: References: <001601c590b0$9f54dd30$12b4010a@warren> <000501c590b8$877b15a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <057e01c592fc$73c8a3b0$12b4010a@warren> <000501c59303$624681a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <42E8F2B6.6060803@att.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050728180818.0258d620@mail.spiritone.com> Warning! Those "USB GPSs" are notoriously inaccurate compared to the better units out there like the Garmin GPS V. If you care about accuracy, i.e., finding a waypoint a couple years later, you will avoid those like the plague.. At 08:21 AM 7/28/2005, you wrote: >Or you can get a gps add on for your notebook computer like the >Earthmate, a much better solution IMHO. > >BK Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From bobl at peaktopeak.com Thu Jul 28 18:20:06 2005 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Thu Jul 28 18:20:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Field Trip Reports In-Reply-To: <214.5b1c493.301ad67f@aol.com> Message-ID: <200507290120.j6T1K6Ri011025@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Also, as others have mentioned before on this list, please tell us which state or province or region of the country... and please put it somewhere near the TOP of the report. It is annoying to read through a trip report and finally see down at the bottom "It was a fun trip to xxxxx, Arizona and I'll do it again." while the whole time I was wondering where it was. Thanks, Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of MCGINNISG@aol.com Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:47 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Field Trip Reports I would like to encourage everyone to make more field trip reports. Please try to be specific, especially about mileage and where the mileage begins. As with Grant Johnston's report, there was a question was to just where the mileage began. Reports, such as Grant Johnston's, are wonderful for he also included local information including rock shops and what the rock shops offer. Opinions like: Was it worth it? Would I go again? Warnings and suggestion! These are all very valuable and welcome. Personally, I share all collecting information about any location with any responsible rockhound. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From nate.gullimer at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 19:38:37 2005 From: nate.gullimer at gmail.com (Nate Gullimer) Date: Thu Jul 28 19:39:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Madagascar Message-ID: <2f16ceba0507281938407f91d3@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, If any of you have access to The Economist, they have an interesting article about the gemstone industry in Madagascar. www.economist.com (registration is required for some stories) Nate From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Fri Jul 29 05:49:42 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Jul 29 05:50:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free digging at the Spectrum Mine In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050728093116.034e0530@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: Us too. And we have a junior rockhound grandson, Jessie, who is 11. Glenn & Jeanette Wimpee >From: Kitty & Bill Heacox <kahako@verizon.net> >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >Grant, thanks for the great trip report. Makes us wish we could go. > Maybe someday... > >Aloha, Kitty > > >At 08:44 AM 7/28/2005, you wrote: >>Hello, >> >>A couple weeks ago we stopped at the free dig at the Spectrum Mine, >>27 >>miles north of Plush, OR. I was using the map from their website >>(http://www.highdesertgemsandminerals.com/) and I thought it was a >>very good map. The only thing that might cause confusion was the >>9.1 >>mile drive from Plush. I was not certain if 9.1 miles meant from >>Plush or from the end of pavement. At about 9.1 miles from Plush >>there is an official sign pointing right with the words "Sunstone >>Area." After that just follow the signs. > ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Get the NEW version of MSN Messenger with Video Conversation - it's FREE! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Fri Jul 29 07:57:35 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Fri Jul 29 07:57:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free digging at the Spectrum Mine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42EA43DF.7090105@tenforward.com> Hi Grant, Thank you very much for your trip report, I really very much enjoyed reading it. And, thanks to Chris Rose for allowing this to happen! All the very best, John Grant Johnston wrote: >Hello, > >A couple weeks ago we stopped at the free dig at the Spectrum Mine, 27 >miles north of Plush, OR. I was using the map from their website >(http://www.highdesertgemsandminerals.com/) and I thought it was a >very good map. The only thing that might cause confusion was the 9.1 >mile drive from Plush. I was not certain if 9.1 miles meant from >Plush or from the end of pavement. At about 9.1 miles from Plush >there is an official sign pointing right with the words "Sunstone >Area." After that just follow the signs. > >The biggest thing to be seen out there is the Dust Devil Mine. About >100 yards past their entrance is a road to the right that goes to the >public bathrooms, in the public area open for sunstone collecting. > >About half way from the main road to the bathroom there's a fork to >the left. That goes to the Spectrum. There are two or three trailers, >a conveyor belt, and other equipment visible so just follow the road. > >By the time we got there it was late afternoon. When we parked my 12 >year old grandson, Jesse, jumped out and immediately started picking >up clear sunstones. If you have ever been to Topaz Mountain on a sunny >day you already know how little things can sparkle in the sun. Imagine >all those clear topaz crystals scattered in a sage brush desert and >you have a good picture of the Spectrum. > >It is easy to see them as they sparkle and shine -- but keeping them >in sight until you bend over and grab them is a little tricky. When >the sun is right one sunstone glitters so much it looks like a golf >ball but when you get it between your fingers it's a little smaller. >Actually it's a whole lot smaller. > >By the time Jessica, the mine manager, got to our motor home to say >hello, Jesse had 10 or 15 small sunstones. She looked through his >small stash and pointed out one that had a drop of red in one end and >a little >green in another spot. He proudly pointed out a larger one with a pink >tint. She wiped off the dust (and rust) and it became another clear >sunstone. Jesse and I were both learning. > >Unfortunately, Chris Rose was mining variscite in Nevada so I didn't >get to meet him. > >The following day was cloudy, great weather for shoveling dirt. There >were huge white clouds in an azure sky. Jesse got an early start. He >shoveled buckets of dirt through the screen and found sunstones almost >every time. Most were clear but some had a small dot of color. One was >pretty large and pink, probably as large as a large olive. > >Another person who was in one of the pits came out with a very large >schiller. I didn't ever hear any weight for it, but it looked about >the size of a cork from a wine bottle. By the end of the day Jesse had >filled a 16 ounce plastic water bottle with sunstones, and he put some >others into a baggie. He thought it was a worthwhile return for the >amount of digging he had done. > >Darla and I did most of our digging in my wallet, buying one faceted >sunstone (a marquise cut.) We also bought some other shiny things >Jessica had for sale. There was some nice green apitite from Durango, >Mexico, almost the color of key lime pie. > >We left the next morning but stopped at the Dust Devil to meet the >people and order some bracelets made with sunstone beads. Last year I >bought 3 or 4 bracelets made by the Dust Devil -- but sold by the >jewelry store in Lakeview. They were very popular Christmas presents >with several teenage girls. I wanted to get a few more. > >Terry told they were sold out and waiting for the beads to come back >from China. He said the rough he sent over this year was better >quality and he had ordered several different styles of beads. I'll >have to wait and see if the price is still right for Christmas >presents for teenagers. I bought some cutting rough, variscite and >chrysocolla. > >I also stopped at the Lakeview Rockshop. I bought a specimen of >tracinite there, just to have a piece. She has very good prices and >many different types of rock. There is even one table of scraps that >sell for ten cents per pound. I found a lot of small pieces that I >can give my grandchildren. > >If you go to the Spectrum it can be very hot but hard work will be >rewarded. There are abundant large, colorful sunstones there -- but >you have to work to get them. > >And Jessica is a very nice person and a charming hostess. Just don't >try to keep up with her unless you are in real good shape and able to >work hard in the heat. >She is in constant motion, greeting guest, selling things at the >store, or down in a pit digging. And after a long, hot, dusty day she >still has her smile. That's another of the treasures from the Spectrum >Mine. > >I was paying about $2.50 per gallon for the gas on this trip -- but >the free dig at the Spectrum turned my grandson into a rockhound. It >was worth every penny. Thanks to Chris and Jessica for letting us dig. > >Grant Johnston, Chico, CA > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Fri Jul 29 08:40:14 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Jul 29 08:40:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Free digging at the Spectrum Mine In-Reply-To: <42EA43DF.7090105@tenforward.com> Message-ID: Grant, Thanks for another great trip report. Jeanette and I have a junior rockhound grandson named Jessie. He is 11 and a half. (That half is really important in that time in life.) I'll share your story with him. Glenn Grant Johnston wrote: > >>Hello, >> >>A couple weeks ago we stopped at the free dig at the Spectrum Mine, >>27 >>miles north of Plush, OR. By the time we got there it was late afternoon. When we parked my >>12 >>year old grandson, Jesse, jumped out and immediately started >>picking up clear sunstones. >> >>Grant Johnston, Chico, CA >> ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Download today's top songs at MSN Music from artists like U2, Eminem, & Kelly Clarkson ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From kadok at infowest.com Fri Jul 29 09:47:04 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Fri Jul 29 09:47:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050728100014.034f6e50@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <20050729164703.3699AA106F@marbella.infowest.com> Hi, Kitty; Re the irridescent lava -- I have a couple of small pieces circa about 1990 (the year of the big eclipse), with blue and gold (like Pele's hair) irridescence. (Our class walked out to where the lva was fallling into the see, & I found them along the way.) Obviously fairly fresh. What can you tell us about what causes the irridescence? I/we had assumed that it might be a very thin (one wavelength thick) layer of a metal?? Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill Heacox Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 1:21 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava Hi all, Here's a bit that recently appeared in our local newspaper, the Hawaii Tribute-Herald, under a daily column "This day in history." It is of interest in several ways. First, it speaks of "rainbow lava," and I've been finding iridescent lava at lava flows from 1969 and 1990, so this was obviously from much earlier, probably explosive activity in Halema'uma'u crater which began in 1924. Second, the Hawaii Tourist Bureau, with the assistance of the Park Superintendent was sending pieces of lava to the mainland...which verifies our opinion that the "Pele's Curse" had not been created yet at that time. And third, it's neat to think of these organizations encouraging school children back then to become interested in geology. Enjoy! Aloha, Kitty "This day in history: July 26, 1930: "The popularity on the mainland of Pele, Hawaiian fire goddess, has been indicated by the numerous requests for samples of the volcano, which have followed the Hawaii Tourist Bureau's plan of sending pieces of rainbow lava to a limited number of school children and travel prospects outside of the territory. A small one-page pamphlet describing the volcano and the Big Island section of the national park is sent with the volcanic specimens which are being sent out by the tourist bureau through an arrangement with Park Superintendent Thomas Allen who is furnishing the pieces of rainbow lava." _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at verizon.net Fri Jul 29 11:04:28 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Jul 29 11:04:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava In-Reply-To: <20050729164703.3699AA106F@marbella.infowest.com> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050728100014.034f6e50@incoming.verizon.net> <20050729164703.3699AA106F@marbella.infowest.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050729075806.02614268@incoming.verizon.net> All I can tell you about the iridescence is to describe the various forms it takes and in what kind of situations it's found. I sent several pieces to Axel and he was going to have it analyzed and get back to us. Are you there Axel? Any results yet? Aloha, Kitty At 06:47 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote: >Hi, Kitty; > >Re the irridescent lava -- I have a couple of small pieces circa about 1990 >(the year of the big eclipse), with blue and gold (like Pele's hair) >irridescence. (Our class walked out to where the lva was fallling into the >see, & I found them along the way.) Obviously fairly fresh. >What can you tell us about what causes the irridescence? I/we had assumed >that it might be a very thin (one wavelength thick) layer of a metal?? > >Margaret From MCGINNISG at aol.com Fri Jul 29 11:10:01 2005 From: MCGINNISG at aol.com (MCGINNISG@aol.com) Date: Fri Jul 29 11:10:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ultra Sonic Cleaners Message-ID: <219.5c69566.301bcaf9@aol.com> I am thinking about purchasing an Ultra Sonic unit for clean minerals. Harbor Freight has a small one for about $25.00. Has anyone had any experience using one of these things? What is the best solution to use in the unit? Thank you Timm --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From r.elske at verizon.net Fri Jul 29 11:19:52 2005 From: r.elske at verizon.net (Robynne) Date: Fri Jul 29 11:20:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lazy, unthoughtful people Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 14, Issue 30 References: <200507290104.j6T141i3005916@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <013501c5946a$1df7caf0$6501a8c0@Robynne> I would like to know why it is so difficult for people to delete the message to which they reply? All it takes is highlighting the "Re:" section of the message-you all should know this, the part with the ">" before it and pushing either the space bar, the delete key or the backs space. For short posts it's not too bad, but for long posts as in the one in this digest about "chemical hazards" and such, having to wade through to the next post in the digest is very tedious. In case you are contemplating a "smart-alek" reply to this post, please follow both internet protocol and etiquette, and erase this message before you send your reply. RRE From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 29 11:23:41 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Fri Jul 29 11:23:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ultra Sonic Cleaners In-Reply-To: <219.5c69566.301bcaf9@aol.com> Message-ID: <20050729182341.13119.qmail@web51013.mail.yahoo.com> I use one quite a bit, primarily for micromounts. The largest size piece I put in it is about the size of a marble. Larger pieces could cause the unit to work too hard, causing damage to it. There are larger units, of course, and larger prices. I don't know anything about the unit you have in mind, but wonder if it has enough power, at that price. I use a solution called Micro in my unit. It's sold by lab supply houses for cleaning labrotory glassware. Jim Daly --- MCGINNISG@aol.com wrote: > > I am thinking about purchasing an Ultra Sonic unit > for clean minerals. > Harbor Freight has a small one for about $25.00. > Has anyone had any experience > using one of these things? > What is the best solution to use in the unit? Thank > you > Timm > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 29 11:36:17 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Fri Jul 29 11:36:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050729075806.02614268@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <20050729183617.81989.qmail@web51011.mail.yahoo.com> I've studied the iridescence under the microscope, and done some reading, and I think I have an explanation. It appears to be an interference effect, much like an oil slick on water, or a soap bubble. In oter words, it's an optical effect, not chemical. The outermost surface of a pahoehoe flow can cool quickly enough to form a glass. While this glass is still hot, it is viscoelastic. Pressure from inside the flow stretches the glassy layer to a very thin skin. When light hits this thin skin, part is reflected off the surface, and part off the underside of the transparent skin. The light reflected off the underside has travelled a greater distance at a different velocity than the light reflected off the top surface. Depending on the thickness of the transparent skin, some wavelengths of light will be a half wavelength, or some odd multiple of that amount, out of phase with each other. This results in the subtraction of the color represented by that wavelength from the white light. Since the transparent skin isn't uniform in thickness, a variety of colors results. I'll be interested in hearing what Axel has come up with, and if he agrees. Jim Daly --- Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > All I can tell you about the iridescence is to > describe the various forms > it takes and in what kind of situations it's found. > I sent several pieces > to Axel and he was going to have it analyzed and get > back to us. Are you > there Axel? Any results yet? > > Aloha, Kitty > > > At 06:47 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote: > >Hi, Kitty; > > > >Re the irridescent lava -- I have a couple of small > pieces circa about 1990 > >(the year of the big eclipse), with blue and gold > (like Pele's hair) > >irridescence. (Our class walked out to where the > lva was fallling into the > >see, & I found them along the way.) Obviously > fairly fresh. > >What can you tell us about what causes the > irridescence? I/we had assumed > >that it might be a very thin (one wavelength thick) > layer of a metal?? > > > >Margaret > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From albalmer at att.net Fri Jul 29 11:45:18 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Fri Jul 29 11:45:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lazy, unthoughtful people Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 14, Issue 30 In-Reply-To: <013501c5946a$1df7caf0$6501a8c0@Robynne> References: <200507290104.j6T141i3005916@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <013501c5946a$1df7caf0$6501a8c0@Robynne> Message-ID: <42EA793E.9080401@att.net> Robynne wrote: > I would like to know why it is so difficult for people to delete the > message to which they reply? All it takes is highlighting the "Re:" > section of the message-you all should know this, the part with the ">" > before it and pushing either the space bar, the delete key or the backs > space. For short posts it's not too bad, but for long posts as in the > one in this digest about "chemical hazards" and such, having to wade > through to the next post in the digest is very tedious. In case you are > contemplating a "smart-alek" reply to this post, please follow both > internet protocol and etiquette, and erase this message before you send > your reply. > RRE > Sorry, but you're wrong. Too many people delete the entire post, leaving no clue as to what they are responding to. (Perhaps you didn't know that not everyone chooses to receive the digest version.) Replies should be inserted after the item being replied to, and material that's no longer relevant should be snipped. As for your directions, not everyone uses Microsoft Outlook Express, hard as it may be to believe. I *would* encourage everyone to take the trouble to delete the footer that is attached by the mailing list software. We don't really need that repeated a half-dozen times in a message. I have previously suggested that the standard sig separator line be included in the footer, so that conforming mail readers would strip it on replies. From jaybates at rcn.com Fri Jul 29 12:09:15 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Fri Jul 29 12:07:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava References: <20050729183617.81989.qmail@web51011.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000a01c59471$04349f60$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Sound very similar to rainbow or other sheen obsidian. Sheen obsidian is usually layered with the sheen showing perpendicular to the layering. If I remember correctly the sheen is produced by layers of tiny bubbles. "Tiny Bubbles, Tiny Bubbles" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Daly" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 11:36 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava > I've studied the iridescence under the microscope, and > done some reading, and I think I have an explanation. > It appears to be an interference effect, much like an > oil slick on water, or a soap bubble. In oter words, > it's an optical effect, not chemical. > The outermost surface of a pahoehoe flow can cool > quickly enough to form a glass. While this glass is > still hot, it is viscoelastic. Pressure from inside > the flow stretches the glassy layer to a very thin > skin. When light hits this thin skin, part is > reflected off the surface, and part off the underside > of the transparent skin. The light reflected off the > underside has travelled a greater distance at a > different velocity than the light reflected off the > top surface. Depending on the thickness of the > transparent skin, some wavelengths of light will be a > half wavelength, or some odd multiple of that amount, > out of phase with each other. This results in the > subtraction of the color represented by that > wavelength from the white light. Since the transparent > skin isn't uniform in thickness, a variety of colors > results. > I'll be interested in hearing what Axel has come up > with, and if he agrees. > Jim Daly > > --- Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > > All I can tell you about the iridescence is to > > describe the various forms > > it takes and in what kind of situations it's found. > > I sent several pieces > > to Axel and he was going to have it analyzed and get > > back to us. Are you > > there Axel? Any results yet? > > > > Aloha, Kitty > > > > > > At 06:47 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote: > > >Hi, Kitty; > > > > > >Re the irridescent lava -- I have a couple of small > > pieces circa about 1990 > > >(the year of the big eclipse), with blue and gold > > (like Pele's hair) > > >irridescence. (Our class walked out to where the > > lva was fallling into the > > >see, & I found them along the way.) Obviously > > fairly fresh. > > >What can you tell us about what causes the > > irridescence? I/we had assumed > > >that it might be a very thin (one wavelength thick) > > layer of a metal?? > > > > > >Margaret > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________ > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.7/60 - Release Date: 7/28/05 > > From afox at drizzle.com Fri Jul 29 12:09:38 2005 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Fri Jul 29 12:09:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lazy, unthoughtful people Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 14, Issue 30 In-Reply-To: <42EA793E.9080401@att.net> Message-ID: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/laup.html Nobody ever reads it or follows it, but I still try. See Item #5. Aaron Rockhounds 'Admin'? -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox FATAL ERROR: Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot From agesilaus at gmail.com Fri Jul 29 12:19:10 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Jul 29 12:19:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ultra Sonic Cleaners In-Reply-To: <219.5c69566.301bcaf9@aol.com> References: <219.5c69566.301bcaf9@aol.com> Message-ID: Various lab detergents will work, we use Neutrad I think. Some of these can get mighty expensive, I think Neutrad is about $40/liter. Bransonic makes various cleaning solutions for their ultrasonic cleaners as well. We have a unit right now that has a 4 liter or so capacity, I don't think the size of the object being cleaned has any feedback effect on the transducer which generates the ultrasound. BUT, you should never run the unit with the solution level below the fill line. That will burn up the transducer. A $25 unit sounds... ah shall we say surprisingly inexpensive, unless it is a very small unit designed to clean rings and other small pieces of jewelry. I used to have one that was sold to clean drafting pen tips, it had a volume of a 100 mL or so. You are not supposed to put corrosive or flamable solvents directly in ultrasonic cleaner tub, but you can place such material (1+1 nitric acid for example) in a beaker or somesuch in the tub and fill the tub up with water. The water will transmit the ultrasound to the solution in the beaker. No container should rest on the bottom of the tub either, it should hang suspended in the tub. Direct contact is also supposed to be bad for the transducer. Bryan On 7/29/05, MCGINNISG@aol.com wrote: > > I am thinking about purchasing an Ultra Sonic unit for clean minerals. > Harbor Freight has a small one for about $25.00. Has anyone had any experience > using one of these things? > What is the best solution to use in the unit? Thank you > Timm > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From r.elske at verizon.net Fri Jul 29 12:25:32 2005 From: r.elske at verizon.net (Robynne) Date: Fri Jul 29 12:25:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockin' Around Montana Book; Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 14, Issue 24 References: <200507230103.j6N137bL016776@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <014301c59473$49c45280$6501a8c0@Robynne> In case anyone's interested in it I found the book "Rockin' Around Montana" here for $14.95 plus S&H $7.00 : http://www.modernprospector.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=68 RRE From rik.dillen at skynet.be Fri Jul 29 12:35:34 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Fri Jul 29 12:35:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava In-Reply-To: <20050729183617.81989.qmail@web51011.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200507291935.j6TJZZYM023655@outmx010.isp.belgacom.be> (sorry for the presence of some scientific terms - if not interested just hit the del key, not me...) I agree completely with your hypothesis. Analysing such things will not reveal anything, as the composition of the ultra-thin layer will be very near to the composition of the bulk. It is just more glassy and transparent, and indeed has a thickness of the order of magnitude of the wavelength of the light in question (or a multiple of low order, meaning 2, 3, perhaps maximum 4). In practice the layer should be something of the order of magnitude of 0.5 - 2 ?m. Because the layer is thinner than a few ?m (the excitation volume in e.g. a scanning electron microscope which yields X-rays for detection with an energy-dispersive (or wavelength dispersive) X-ray analyser a much more sophisticated method would have to be used for a chemical elemental analysis, such as X-ray photo-electron spectroscopy. To see whether the outermost layer is indeed glassy, versus crystalline in the bulk, the only method I would think of is X-ray diffractometry with grazing incidence on a very flat sample (penetration depth a few 100 nm), which in the case of a glassy surface would show in the diffraction pattern only a broad band, no sharp peaks, whereas the bulk should show peaks. It will not be easy anyway ! Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Jim Daly Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 8:36 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava I've studied the iridescence under the microscope, and done some reading, and I think I have an explanation. It appears to be an interference effect, much like an oil slick on water, or a soap bubble. In oter words, it's an optical effect, not chemical. The outermost surface of a pahoehoe flow can cool quickly enough to form a glass. While this glass is still hot, it is viscoelastic. Pressure from inside the flow stretches the glassy layer to a very thin skin. When light hits this thin skin, part is reflected off the surface, and part off the underside of the transparent skin. The light reflected off the underside has travelled a greater distance at a different velocity than the light reflected off the top surface. Depending on the thickness of the transparent skin, some wavelengths of light will be a half wavelength, or some odd multiple of that amount, out of phase with each other. This results in the subtraction of the color represented by that wavelength from the white light. Since the transparent skin isn't uniform in thickness, a variety of colors results. I'll be interested in hearing what Axel has come up with, and if he agrees. Jim Daly --- Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > All I can tell you about the iridescence is to > describe the various forms > it takes and in what kind of situations it's found. > I sent several pieces > to Axel and he was going to have it analyzed and get > back to us. Are you > there Axel? Any results yet? > > Aloha, Kitty > > > At 06:47 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote: > >Hi, Kitty; > > > >Re the irridescent lava -- I have a couple of small > pieces circa about 1990 > >(the year of the big eclipse), with blue and gold > (like Pele's hair) > >irridescence. (Our class walked out to where the > lva was fallling into the > >see, & I found them along the way.) Obviously > fairly fresh. > >What can you tell us about what causes the > irridescence? I/we had assumed > >that it might be a very thin (one wavelength thick) > layer of a metal?? > > > >Margaret > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at verizon.net Fri Jul 29 14:58:53 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Jul 29 14:59:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava In-Reply-To: <20050729183617.81989.qmail@web51011.mail.yahoo.com> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050729075806.02614268@incoming.verizon.net> <20050729183617.81989.qmail@web51011.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050729113059.0262b190@incoming.verizon.net> Keep in mind I'm an artist, not a scientist, so I appreciate the gorgeous colors and know almost nothing of the process that produced them. But I assume that when you guys speak of "thin skin" and "ultra thin layer" you do not mean the outer surface of the rock but rather surfaces of cells or molecules (or whatever small bit), is that correct? Because much---maybe even most---of the iridescence we encounter here appears to be inside or underneath lava chunks or slivers or layers. In many cases if you pick up a piece of plain brown or black lava and break it in two (usually this can be done with hands, no tools needed), the iridescence is revealed on the inside. In other cases there are layers of lava, and if you pry off several of the ugly brown outer layers you reach little plates of iridescent stuff, some of it iridescent on both sides, and usually when you break one of these in two, it appears that the color goes throughout the entire piece. Aloha, Kitty Jim Daly wrote: >It appears to be an interference effect, much like an >oil slick on water, or a soap bubble. In other words, >it's an optical effect, not chemical. >When light hits this thin skin, part is >reflected off the surface, and part off the underside >of the transparent skin. >Rik Dillen wrote: >Analysing such things will not reveal anything, as the composition of the >ultra-thin layer will be very near to the composition of the bulk. From Rocknlight at aol.com Fri Jul 29 15:05:41 2005 From: Rocknlight at aol.com (Rocknlight@aol.com) Date: Fri Jul 29 15:05:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lazy, unthoughtful people.. Computer novices Message-ID: WOW !! I read the post twice and am too confused to offer any factual opinion.. I really have ZERO idea of what this thread is about at all.... And, therein lies the entire problem.. CONFUSION, BRED BY COMPUTER COMPLEXITY.. Coupled with either limited abilities or little desire to invest time, because time is all too short in most peoples busy lives ! The precious commodity of time is invested in different areas for different people... Personally I am NOT very computer savvy .. I only want to read simple, to the point e mail post on lapidary subjects..Then if I want to participate, I'll click on reply and be DONE ! End of story... I suspect many rockhounds want to do the same... I applaud anyone like MR. Fox, who is computer literate and can create websites and web-groups, such as this one...However, NOT everyone is able to comprehend computer lingo and procedures... For many, just purchasing a computer and going online and joining any cyber group is almost asking too much.. And for those of us who are computer novices, we too deserve to be applauded for just being able to turn a computer on... RnL From jaybates at rcn.com Fri Jul 29 15:36:19 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Fri Jul 29 15:34:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050729075806.02614268@incoming.verizon.net><20050729183617.81989.qmail@web51011.mail.yahoo.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050729113059.0262b190@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <000701c5948d$f0ca0c40$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> I think they are talking about a thin arranged layer of tiny air bubbles similar to what happens in sheen obsidian. Looking through some of literature on the internet it seems the NPS thinks the irridescent effect is caused by metallic substances in the lava such as titanium oxide. Because of the similarity of a glass surface on the lava to sheen obsidian I am inclined to agree with thoses who think it is caused by an optical effect of tiny air bubbles in the "glass". ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 2:58 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava > Keep in mind I'm an artist, not a scientist, so I appreciate the gorgeous > colors and know almost nothing of the process that produced them. > > But I assume that when you guys speak of "thin skin" and "ultra thin layer" > you do not mean the outer surface of the rock but rather surfaces of cells > or molecules (or whatever small bit), is that correct? Because > much---maybe even most---of the iridescence we encounter here appears to be > inside or underneath lava chunks or slivers or layers. In many cases if > you pick up a piece of plain brown or black lava and break it in two > (usually this can be done with hands, no tools needed), the iridescence is > revealed on the inside. In other cases there are layers of lava, and if > you pry off several of the ugly brown outer layers you reach little plates > of iridescent stuff, some of it iridescent on both sides, and usually when > you break one of these in two, it appears that the color goes throughout > the entire piece. > > Aloha, Kitty > > Jim Daly wrote: > >It appears to be an interference effect, much like an > >oil slick on water, or a soap bubble. In other words, > >it's an optical effect, not chemical. > >When light hits this thin skin, part is > >reflected off the surface, and part off the underside > >of the transparent skin. > > > >Rik Dillen wrote: > > >Analysing such things will not reveal anything, as the composition of the > >ultra-thin layer will be very near to the composition of the bulk. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.7/60 - Release Date: 7/28/05 > > From agesilaus at gmail.com Fri Jul 29 16:06:39 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Jul 29 16:06:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava In-Reply-To: <000701c5948d$f0ca0c40$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050729075806.02614268@incoming.verizon.net> <20050729183617.81989.qmail@web51011.mail.yahoo.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050729113059.0262b190@incoming.verizon.net> <000701c5948d$f0ca0c40$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: I assumed that they were talking about an interference fringe phenomena. That is caused by a thin film of glassy material on the surface of the item showing the 'rainbow' effect. The film would be a thin molecular layer several molecules thick. It seems to me that very very tiny bubbles would disrupt the effect. The references to a metallic layer are just saying that a thin layer of some metallic compound was 'flashed' onto the surface producing the optical effect. This effect is often seen as the rainbow sheen that a thin layer of oil on water produces. It is the thiness of the layer that produces the effect not the material composition of the layer. BK On 7/29/05, jaybates wrote: > I think they are talking about a thin arranged layer of tiny air bubbles > similar to what happens in sheen obsidian. Looking through some of > literature on the internet it seems the NPS thinks the irridescent effect is > caused by metallic substances in the lava such as titanium oxide. Because of > the similarity of a glass surface on the lava to sheen obsidian I am > inclined to agree with thoses who think it is caused by an optical effect of > tiny air bubbles in the "glass". From kahako at verizon.net Fri Jul 29 16:26:35 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Jul 29 16:26:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050729075806.02614268@incoming.verizon.net> <20050729183617.81989.qmail@web51011.mail.yahoo.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050729113059.0262b190@incoming.verizon.net> <000701c5948d$f0ca0c40$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050729132351.0262a6c8@incoming.verizon.net> Any of you folks who would like to see a bit of this stuff up close and personal, I can send you a piece. Contact me off list. Aloha, Kitty At 01:06 PM 7/29/2005, you wrote: >I assumed that they were talking about an interference fringe >phenomena. That is caused by a thin film of glassy material on the >surface of the item showing the 'rainbow' effect. The film would be a >thin molecular layer several molecules thick. It seems to me that >very very tiny bubbles would disrupt the effect. > >The references to a metallic layer are just saying that a thin layer >of some metallic compound was 'flashed' onto the surface producing the >optical effect. This effect is often seen as the rainbow sheen that a >thin layer of oil on water produces. It is the thiness of the layer >that produces the effect not the material composition of the layer. > >BK > > >On 7/29/05, jaybates wrote: > > I think they are talking about a thin arranged layer of tiny air bubbles > > similar to what happens in sheen obsidian. Looking through some of > > literature on the internet it seems the NPS thinks the irridescent > effect is > > caused by metallic substances in the lava such as titanium oxide. > Because of > > the similarity of a glass surface on the lava to sheen obsidian I am > > inclined to agree with thoses who think it is caused by an optical > effect of > > tiny air bubbles in the "glass". > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jaybates at rcn.com Fri Jul 29 16:29:12 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Fri Jul 29 16:27:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050729075806.02614268@incoming.verizon.net><20050729183617.81989.qmail@web51011.mail.yahoo.com><6.2.1.2.0.20050729113059.0262b190@incoming.verizon.net><000701c5948d$f0ca0c40$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <001001c59495$54a89720$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> You may be right as to what they are talkiing about. I would think a surface effect as opposed to an internal structure effect could be determined by observation of the depth of the flash and whether you can easily grind through the flash. . I am familiar with sheen obsidian, but I have not seen the Rainbow lava Kitty is talking about. ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 4:06 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava > I assumed that they were talking about an interference fringe > phenomena. That is caused by a thin film of glassy material on the > surface of the item showing the 'rainbow' effect. The film would be a > thin molecular layer several molecules thick. It seems to me that > very very tiny bubbles would disrupt the effect. > > The references to a metallic layer are just saying that a thin layer > of some metallic compound was 'flashed' onto the surface producing the > optical effect. This effect is often seen as the rainbow sheen that a > thin layer of oil on water produces. It is the thiness of the layer > that produces the effect not the material composition of the layer. > > BK > > > On 7/29/05, jaybates wrote: > > I think they are talking about a thin arranged layer of tiny air bubbles > > similar to what happens in sheen obsidian. Looking through some of > > literature on the internet it seems the NPS thinks the irridescent effect is > > caused by metallic substances in the lava such as titanium oxide. Because of > > the similarity of a glass surface on the lava to sheen obsidian I am > > inclined to agree with thoses who think it is caused by an optical effect of > > tiny air bubbles in the "glass". > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.7/60 - Release Date: 7/28/05 > > From teyancey at mail.tca.net Fri Jul 29 16:31:14 2005 From: teyancey at mail.tca.net (Thomas Yancey) Date: Fri Jul 29 16:30:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Wamsutter, WY area and look for turritella agate In-Reply-To: <1121099092_3956@S3.cableone.net> References: <1121099092_3956@S3.cableone.net> Message-ID: Folks, Earlier this month the following message (see below) was sent to the group and it showed how commonly the name Turritella applied to the fossils in the agate. This causes a bit of confusion, because the snails preserved in the agate are fresh water snails, not Turritella, which is a marine snail. The Wyoming agate layer contains snails of the genus Elimia, a typical large high spired snail of fresh waters. The Wyomin agate layer formed in the sediments of a very large lake that existed in Wyoming and adjacent parts of north Utah about 50 million years ago, where the deposits now called the Green River Formation accumulated. Since the common name/lapidary name of the agae is not likely to change, take a moment to remember that the snails are of a fresh water genus and unrelated to Turritella. The use of a marine name for the fossils has led some people to think that ocean waters covered Wyoming when the these shells accumulated, but that is not true. There was a very large inland lake, but no ocean environment. Tom Yancey snip >My son and I are planning on going to the Wamsutter, WY area to hunt >the special >turritella agate, but need directions from Wamsutter on how to get to the >location. We will be staying in Rawlins in the evenings and back to Wamsutter >during the days. snip -- Thomas Yancey From drtanuki at yahoo.com Fri Jul 29 16:31:02 2005 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Fri Jul 29 16:31:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Introduction and AD: Kimberlite/ Lamproite wanted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050729233102.58845.qmail@web53205.mail.yahoo.com> Dear List Members, Thank you for the opportunity to join your list. I am a meteorite/impact researcher living in Tokyo, Japan. My research is focused on tektite formation and impact craters in SE Asia. I also study impactites. If anyone on this list requires help from Asia please let me know. I often travel to Taiwan, Thailand, Laos, Burma, Cambodia, China and the Philippines. Currently, one of my students is studying relationships between kimberlites and lamproites and impact diamond formation. If any member has specimens from known locations for sale/trade or knows of commercial sources please contact me. Thank you in advance. Sincerely, Dirk Ross...Tokyo __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From agesilaus at gmail.com Fri Jul 29 16:34:42 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Jul 29 16:34:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava In-Reply-To: <001001c59495$54a89720$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050729075806.02614268@incoming.verizon.net> <20050729183617.81989.qmail@web51011.mail.yahoo.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050729113059.0262b190@incoming.verizon.net> <000701c5948d$f0ca0c40$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <001001c59495$54a89720$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: OK a techical description of what may be happening can be found here: http://physics.bu.edu/~duffy/PY106/Diffraction.html Warning: physics is involved...heh. The layer thickness and refractive index are important. BK On 7/29/05, jaybates wrote: > You may be right as to what they are talkiing about. I would think a surface > effect as opposed to an internal structure effect could be determined by > observation of the depth of the flash and whether you can easily grind > through the flash. . I am familiar with sheen obsidian, but I have not seen > the Rainbow lava Kitty is talking about. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "J Bryan Kramer" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 4:06 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava > > > > I assumed that they were talking about an interference fringe > > phenomena. That is caused by a thin film of glassy material on the > > surface of the item showing the 'rainbow' effect. The film would be a > > thin molecular layer several molecules thick. It seems to me that > > very very tiny bubbles would disrupt the effect. > > > > The references to a metallic layer are just saying that a thin layer > > of some metallic compound was 'flashed' onto the surface producing the > > optical effect. This effect is often seen as the rainbow sheen that a > > thin layer of oil on water produces. It is the thiness of the layer > > that produces the effect not the material composition of the layer. > > > > BK > > > > > > On 7/29/05, jaybates wrote: > > > I think they are talking about a thin arranged layer of tiny air bubbles > > > similar to what happens in sheen obsidian. Looking through some of > > > literature on the internet it seems the NPS thinks the irridescent > effect is > > > caused by metallic substances in the lava such as titanium oxide. > Because of > > > the similarity of a glass surface on the lava to sheen obsidian I am > > > inclined to agree with thoses who think it is caused by an optical > effect of > > > tiny air bubbles in the "glass". > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.7/60 - Release Date: 7/28/05 > > > > > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jul 29 17:03:25 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jul 29 17:01:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava References: <20050729164703.3699AA106F@marbella.infowest.com> Message-ID: <42EAC33B.3F73@Tomaszewski.net> Margaret Malm wrote: > What can you tell us about what causes the irridescence? I/we had assumed > that it might be a very thin (one wavelength thick) layer of a metal?? > > Margaret Margaret (and List), The iridescence appears to be due to surface alteration to a depth up to about a visible wavelength of light (390-780 nanometers -- 10 to the negative nine power meter is a nanometer), probably from adsorption of gas while it was still very hot. A very thin layer of some optically different mineral/rock than the bulk lava rock it coats. 1/4 to 1/2 wavelength of light thick layers give the best rainbow effects. I suspect the composition of the gas is less important than the quantity since the depth of the layer is critical to the effect. Stretching of the thin (to us) layers of lava that have altered surfaces would make an aleration layer thinner (and might align larger molecules or microcrystals). Stretched lava layers themselves are too thick, by orders of magnitude, to produce iridescence. Stretching might be necessary, and could come from the stresses of cooling as well as flow. Yes, this is much like an oil slick in thinness, and it produces the rainbow effect from light interference in much the same way. But the cause is due to surface alteration (instead of a coating), more like the anti-glare coating on camera lenses, where the surface is chemically modified. Kreigh From jaybates at rcn.com Fri Jul 29 17:22:01 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Fri Jul 29 17:20:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava References: <20050729164703.3699AA106F@marbella.infowest.com> <42EAC33B.3F73@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <001301c5949c$b539cbc0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Has anyone tested for the depth of the effect? Is it a surface phenomenon? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 5:03 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava > Margaret Malm wrote: > > > What can you tell us about what causes the irridescence? I/we had assumed > > that it might be a very thin (one wavelength thick) layer of a metal?? > > > > Margaret > > Margaret (and List), > > The iridescence appears to be due to surface alteration to a depth up to > about a visible wavelength of light (390-780 nanometers -- 10 to the > negative nine power meter is a nanometer), probably from adsorption of > gas while it was still very hot. A very thin layer of some optically > different mineral/rock than the bulk lava rock it coats. > > 1/4 to 1/2 wavelength of light thick layers give the best rainbow > effects. I suspect the composition of the gas is less important than the > quantity since the depth of the layer is critical to the effect. > > Stretching of the thin (to us) layers of lava that have altered > surfaces would make an aleration layer thinner (and might align larger > molecules or microcrystals). Stretched lava layers themselves are too > thick, by orders of magnitude, to produce iridescence. Stretching might > be necessary, and could come from the stresses of cooling as well as > flow. > > Yes, this is much like an oil slick in thinness, and it produces the > rainbow effect from light interference in much the same way. But the > cause is due to surface alteration (instead of a coating), more like the > anti-glare coating on camera lenses, where the surface is chemically > modified. > > Kreigh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.7/60 - Release Date: 7/28/05 > > From jaybates at rcn.com Fri Jul 29 18:02:30 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Fri Jul 29 18:00:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050729075806.02614268@incoming.verizon.net><20050729183617.81989.qmail@web51011.mail.yahoo.com><6.2.1.2.0.20050729113059.0262b190@incoming.verizon.net><000701c5948d$f0ca0c40$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <000901c594a2$5d199e60$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> A thin layer of bubbles does produce the optic effect in sheen obsidian. It is called Adventureescence. The thin film effect is a different type of phenomena than what is occurring in sheen obsidian and other gem material. ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 4:06 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava > I assumed that they were talking about an interference fringe > phenomena. That is caused by a thin film of glassy material on the > surface of the item showing the 'rainbow' effect. The film would be a > thin molecular layer several molecules thick. It seems to me that > very very tiny bubbles would disrupt the effect. > > The references to a metallic layer are just saying that a thin layer > of some metallic compound was 'flashed' onto the surface producing the > optical effect. This effect is often seen as the rainbow sheen that a > thin layer of oil on water produces. It is the thiness of the layer > that produces the effect not the material composition of the layer. > > BK > > > On 7/29/05, jaybates wrote: > > I think they are talking about a thin arranged layer of tiny air bubbles > > similar to what happens in sheen obsidian. Looking through some of > > literature on the internet it seems the NPS thinks the irridescent effect is > > caused by metallic substances in the lava such as titanium oxide. Because of > > the similarity of a glass surface on the lava to sheen obsidian I am > > inclined to agree with thoses who think it is caused by an optical effect of > > tiny air bubbles in the "glass". > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.7/60 - Release Date: 7/28/05 > > From jayhawkmn at yahoo.com Fri Jul 29 18:05:33 2005 From: jayhawkmn at yahoo.com (June Young) Date: Fri Jul 29 18:05:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ultra Sonic Cleaners, Harbor Freight In-Reply-To: <219.5c69566.301bcaf9@aol.com> Message-ID: <20050730010533.80904.qmail@web30507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have had an unpleasent experience with Harbor Freight. It appears there products are rejects or returns. They may not work properly or have parts missing. June --- MCGINNISG@aol.com wrote: > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From agesilaus at gmail.com Fri Jul 29 18:16:04 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Jul 29 18:16:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava In-Reply-To: <42EAC33B.3F73@Tomaszewski.net> References: <20050729164703.3699AA106F@marbella.infowest.com> <42EAC33B.3F73@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Just curious, has this effect been demonstrated in a lab? I'm trying to imagine what gas would react with a hot surface of mostly silica to give you a higher refractive index layer. Of course, it wouldn't have to be a room temp gas I suppose. Bryan On 7/29/05, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > Margaret Malm wrote: > > > What can you tell us about what causes the irridescence? I/we had assumed > > that it might be a very thin (one wavelength thick) layer of a metal?? > > > > Margaret > > Margaret (and List), > > The iridescence appears to be due to surface alteration to a depth up to > about a visible wavelength of light (390-780 nanometers -- 10 to the > negative nine power meter is a nanometer), probably from adsorption of > gas while it was still very hot. A very thin layer of some optically > different mineral/rock than the bulk lava rock it coats. > > 1/4 to 1/2 wavelength of light thick layers give the best rainbow > effects. I suspect the composition of the gas is less important than the > quantity since the depth of the layer is critical to the effect. > > Stretching of the thin (to us) layers of lava that have altered > surfaces would make an aleration layer thinner (and might align larger > molecules or microcrystals). Stretched lava layers themselves are too > thick, by orders of magnitude, to produce iridescence. Stretching might > be necessary, and could come from the stresses of cooling as well as > flow. > > Yes, this is much like an oil slick in thinness, and it produces the > rainbow effect from light interference in much the same way. But the > cause is due to surface alteration (instead of a coating), more like the > anti-glare coating on camera lenses, where the surface is chemically > modified. > > Kreigh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From volgems at icx.net Fri Jul 29 18:31:06 2005 From: volgems at icx.net (John Teague) Date: Fri Jul 29 18:31:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ultra Sonic Cleaners, Harbor Freight Message-ID: <7793748.1122687066675.JavaMail.root@wamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I've never had such an experience with Harbor Freight. I've purchased from them for years .... everything from major electical tools/equipment to inexpensive hand tools. I have NEVER had to take anything back for any reason. They have had a retail outlet here in Knoxville for the last few years. Before that, I did everything by mail order. Never a problem with shipping before the store opened. Sorry that you had a bad experience. Details? John Teague Knoxville, Tennessee -----Original Message----- From: June Young Sent: Jul 29, 2005 9:05 PM To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Ultra Sonic Cleaners, Harbor Freight I have had an unpleasent experience with Harbor Freight. It appears there products are rejects or returns. They may not work properly or have parts missing. June --- MCGINNISG@aol.com wrote: > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jul 29 20:35:55 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jul 29 20:36:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava References: <20050729164703.3699AA106F@marbella.infowest.com> <42EAC33B.3F73@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <42EAF594.25AC@Tomaszewski.net> Bryan, The literature I have been able to find has been pretty barren of explanations for iridescent lavas. Kitty first got me interested before our visit to her island, and I've been doing research. I've got specimens, and I've been connecting a lot of tidbits of information. But it is just my theory, and I know it can be proved wrong. I don't think the research has been done yet, but what I've found fits. You have to remember, we are talking about viscous, molten rock, full of bubbles under pressure, exposed to the atmosphere, and crossing across land that may have just about anything, organic or mineral; iradescence is a micro-environment phenomena. You can feel the heat 20 yards away. What do you want in the gas? I assure you it won't be at room temperature. BTW, fresh, hot, pahoehoe will be silver in appearance. The rainbow colors only appear after after it cools, from my (limited) experience. I also note that surface iradescence is more likely around cracks and folds. Kreigh J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > Just curious, has this effect been demonstrated in a lab? I'm trying > to imagine what gas would react with a hot surface of mostly silica to > give you a higher refractive index layer. Of course, it wouldn't have > to be a room temp gas I suppose. > > Bryan > > On 7/29/05, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > Margaret Malm wrote: > > > > > What can you tell us about what causes the irridescence? I/we had assumed > > > that it might be a very thin (one wavelength thick) layer of a metal?? > > > > > > Margaret > > > > Margaret (and List), > > > > The iridescence appears to be due to surface alteration to a depth up to > > about a visible wavelength of light (390-780 nanometers -- 10 to the > > negative nine power meter is a nanometer), probably from adsorption of > > gas while it was still very hot. A very thin layer of some optically > > different mineral/rock than the bulk lava rock it coats. > > > > 1/4 to 1/2 wavelength of light thick layers give the best rainbow > > effects. I suspect the composition of the gas is less important than the > > quantity since the depth of the layer is critical to the effect. > > > > Stretching of the thin (to us) layers of lava that have altered > > surfaces would make an aleration layer thinner (and might align larger > > molecules or microcrystals). Stretched lava layers themselves are too > > thick, by orders of magnitude, to produce iridescence. Stretching might > > be necessary, and could come from the stresses of cooling as well as > > flow. > > > > Yes, this is much like an oil slick in thinness, and it produces the > > rainbow effect from light interference in much the same way. But the > > cause is due to surface alteration (instead of a coating), more like the > > anti-glare coating on camera lenses, where the surface is chemically > > modified. > > > > Kreigh From kahako at verizon.net Fri Jul 29 20:39:57 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Jul 29 20:40:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ultra Sonic Cleaners, Harbor Freight Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050729173401.026286f8@incoming.verizon.net> I've ordered from Harbor Freight for many years and never had a problem. They do sell some cheap stuff, but the prices fit the product. You get what you pay for, and nothing was misrepresented. Bill At 03:31 PM 7/29/2005, you wrote: >I've never had such an experience with Harbor Freight. I've >purchased from them for years .... everything from major >electical tools/equipment to inexpensive hand tools. I have >NEVER had to take anything back for any reason. They have >had a retail outlet here in Knoxville for the last few years. >Before that, I did everything by mail order. Never a problem >with shipping before the store opened. > >Sorry that you had a bad experience. Details? > >John Teague >Knoxville, Tennessee From MCGINNISG at aol.com Fri Jul 29 22:26:25 2005 From: MCGINNISG at aol.com (MCGINNISG@aol.com) Date: Fri Jul 29 22:26:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Disposing of Muriatic Acid Message-ID: <8e.2c4d1f20.301c6981@aol.com> I have been read the very interesting post about Muriatic Acid but nothing about the disposing of it. If you goggle the disposing of Muriatic Acid, you'll get a million ways if neutralizing the acid. Some wrong, some very wrong. Some are strange and perhaps very dangerous! Some are as follows: You can use Sodium Hydroxide (Caustic Soda) to neutralize it and Litmus paper to determine when the pH is 7 (neutral). You can use baking soda. Try using milk. Antacid tablets. A piece of sheetrock as the lime will nuke it. Alka Seltzer works best. Simply flood it out by diluting with 10 times the water. It?s the same stuff as drain cleaner just flush it down the toilet! Now that you read them; which are correct and which are dangerous??? PLEASE BEFORE YOU USE MURIATIC ACID; KNOW HOW TO SAFELY DISPOSE OF IT!!! Timm --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jaybates at rcn.com Fri Jul 29 23:02:45 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Fri Jul 29 23:01:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava References: <20050729164703.3699AA106F@marbella.infowest.com><42EAC33B.3F73@Tomaszewski.net> <42EAF594.25AC@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000901c594cc$4eeb2640$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Why don't you answer my question if you have a sample and have examined it? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "J Bryan Kramer" ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 8:35 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava > Bryan, > > The literature I have been able to find has been pretty barren of > explanations for iridescent lavas. Kitty first got me interested before > our visit to her island, and I've been doing research. > > I've got specimens, and I've been connecting a lot of tidbits of > information. But it is just my theory, and I know it can be proved > wrong. I don't think the research has been done yet, but what I've > found fits. > > You have to remember, we are talking about viscous, molten rock, full of > bubbles under pressure, exposed to the atmosphere, and crossing across > land that may have just about anything, organic or mineral; iradescence > is a micro-environment phenomena. You can feel the heat 20 yards away. > What do you want in the gas? I assure you it won't be at room > temperature. > > BTW, fresh, hot, pahoehoe will be silver in appearance. The rainbow > colors only appear after after it cools, from my (limited) experience. I > also note that surface iradescence is more likely around cracks and > folds. > > Kreigh > > > > > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > > Just curious, has this effect been demonstrated in a lab? I'm trying > > to imagine what gas would react with a hot surface of mostly silica to > > give you a higher refractive index layer. Of course, it wouldn't have > > to be a room temp gas I suppose. > > > > Bryan > > > > On 7/29/05, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > Margaret Malm wrote: > > > > > > > What can you tell us about what causes the irridescence? I/we had assumed > > > > that it might be a very thin (one wavelength thick) layer of a metal?? > > > > > > > > Margaret > > > > > > Margaret (and List), > > > > > > The iridescence appears to be due to surface alteration to a depth up to > > > about a visible wavelength of light (390-780 nanometers -- 10 to the > > > negative nine power meter is a nanometer), probably from adsorption of > > > gas while it was still very hot. A very thin layer of some optically > > > different mineral/rock than the bulk lava rock it coats. > > > > > > 1/4 to 1/2 wavelength of light thick layers give the best rainbow > > > effects. I suspect the composition of the gas is less important than the > > > quantity since the depth of the layer is critical to the effect. > > > > > > Stretching of the thin (to us) layers of lava that have altered > > > surfaces would make an aleration layer thinner (and might align larger > > > molecules or microcrystals). Stretched lava layers themselves are too > > > thick, by orders of magnitude, to produce iridescence. Stretching might > > > be necessary, and could come from the stresses of cooling as well as > > > flow. > > > > > > Yes, this is much like an oil slick in thinness, and it produces the > > > rainbow effect from light interference in much the same way. But the > > > cause is due to surface alteration (instead of a coating), more like the > > > anti-glare coating on camera lenses, where the surface is chemically > > > modified. > > > > > > Kreigh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.7/60 - Release Date: 7/28/05 > > From dri.anna at verizon.net Fri Jul 29 23:16:21 2005 From: dri.anna at verizon.net (Dri-Anna) Date: Fri Jul 29 23:13:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lazy, unthoughtful people.. Computer novices References: Message-ID: <009401c594ce$354e60b0$6401a8c0@Dri> RNL: I applaud you for having the courage to learn how to turn a computer on, send and receive messages. Unfortunately, just because a person is a Newbie/Novice when it comes to using a computer is not any excuse for them to NOT want to learn the basics and follow the rules of email etiquette or Netiquette with regard to messaging. Yes, not everyone uses Internet Explorer or Outlook Express. However, all Browsers and email clients are similar in their controls, etc. So that is NOT an excuse for not using email setsquare or extending email courtesy. I belong to several African Violet Collectors Lists and Forums. I spend a great deal of time, for those who are that list that wish to learn the basics in using their email client by working with them via private email.. With regard to those who do not wish to learn, I share the opinion with many computer users that this person should not be on line. Be clear in understanding that very few people are Computer Guru's or Geek's. However, Basic Task work, such as emailing does have some rules of courtesy that should be followed. 1. If the person receives their email messages in Digest Form, it is VERY desired that when they reply to a specific email message in that Digest that they make sure to ensure that the Subject indicates the topic and not the Digest Number. If I just see a Digest Number in the Subject, I do not even waste my time in reading that email message. 2. If you will note I have included all of your email message below my Signature and URL's. However, if there was a specific sentence or point that I was going to address in my reply to that message, It is plain ole' courtesy for one to begin their message by saying, "Such and Such said Such and Such". 3. Some folks in their replies have the complete text of the massage they are replying to repeated before their reply begins. That is not email etiquette/Netiquette. I do not waste my time working my down through the original message to get to that persons reply. 4. The only things that should be in an email message your are replying to is make sure the Subject information is in the Subject Block, Except in the instance where you wish to specifically address a portion of the message you received where you type, "Such and Such Said" should be the only portion of that message that is listed above your sign off Signature. And the only messages that should be after your signature is the specific message your are replying to and not several replies that take up band width used by your email. The advice to Newbie/Novice computer users is best put by saying, if you are going to use a computer, learn the basic things you need in order to perform the function you are going use. My gosh, Ask for help! There are special Email Newsletters out there for Newbie's to help learn the Basics. One is the Newbie Club and the other is Infopackets. They do not talk in computerze' but in plain ole' English. One is never to old to learn how to use a computer. Shoot! I created my first website a bit more than a year ago at the age of 63. I strive on a daily basis to become more literate with relation to Computers, Rockhounding, Amateur Geology (at 64) and Propagating & Hybridizing African Violets (I just started the African Violet thing three years ago. You evidently work very hard to be literate/knowledgeable in your Lapidary Work. Well, if you are going to use a computer to become even more literate in Lapidary, you are going to need to become literate in basic computer use too. While in the Aerospace Industry, I spent hours helping the assemblers on the Production Line to master basic computer use skills. Many of them had, as the best, a GID for Education and many of them were struggling with the English Language. However, my company was changing over to paperless documentation during the production process. That meant that all assemblers had to learn some computer basic's so they could bring up the screens on the computer dealing with the step they were performing. And... Be able to type in notations concerning their actions while doing that assembly step. I end this by saying that very few people, regardless of age, are incapable of becoming basic task computer literate. To put it more bluntly: Learn or Log Off! Oh, I wish to offer my condolences that you use AOL. Respectfully: Dri-Anna Davis WA - USA http://www.twospirit.net/ http://www.twospirit.net/MyHobbyAfricanVioletCollectionP1.htm http://www.twospirit.net/DriAnnasAVExtrasAndWishLists.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 15:05 Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Lazy, unthoughtful people.. Computer novices > WOW !! > > I read the post twice and am too confused to offer any factual opinion.. > > I really have ZERO idea of what this thread is about at all.... > > And, therein lies the entire problem.. CONFUSION, BRED BY COMPUTER > COMPLEXITY.. Coupled with either limited abilities or little desire to > invest time, > because time is all too short in most peoples busy lives ! The precious > commodity > of time is invested in different areas for different people... > > Personally I am NOT very computer savvy .. I only want to read simple, to > the point e mail post on lapidary subjects..Then if I want to participate, > I'll > click on reply and be DONE ! End of story... I suspect many rockhounds > want > to do the same... > > I applaud anyone like MR. Fox, who is computer literate and can create > websites and web-groups, such as this one...However, NOT everyone is able > to > comprehend computer lingo and procedures... > > For many, just purchasing a computer and going online and joining any > cyber > group is almost asking too much.. > > And for those of us who are computer novices, we too deserve to be > applauded > for just being able to turn a computer on... > > RnL > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at verizon.net Sat Jul 30 00:40:41 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Jul 30 00:40:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava In-Reply-To: <42EAF594.25AC@Tomaszewski.net> References: <20050729164703.3699AA106F@marbella.infowest.com> <42EAC33B.3F73@Tomaszewski.net> <42EAF594.25AC@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050729174136.02628150@incoming.verizon.net> Three "rainbow" items: 1) a re-stated question: Please pardon my ignorance, but I don't think I've gotten an answer (that I can understand) to my question about what all you extremely intelligent and educated science types (whom I greatly respect) refer to as "surface." Are we talking about the surface of the lava that I can look at in a specimen, or the surfaces of cells or molecules (or whatever small bit) that the lava is made of? ...this to explain why I see iridescence that appears to be throughout and inside of samples, not just on the outside surface. 2) I think (again, excuse my ignorance) that some of us are talking about different kinds of rainbows? I know there are lots of different names for the effects seen in labradorite, microcline, feldspar, etc. I seem to recall that interference is a term Bill has used (he's not around to help me at the moment), and that there is a difference between diffraction interference and thin film interference? Thin film type involves 1 or 2 reflecting elements? diffraction is like what's seen on the back of beetles and can be in lots of things that reflect light, like parallel lines of little stuff or involve spherules like in opals? 3) a field observation (here I know what I'm talking about because I'm describing what I've seen!): Most of the spectacular rainbow effects occur near fissures or where explosive activity has taken place. Some iridescence---usually only one or two colors, most commonly blue---can be seen in many places, and I even see it in cinder that has been delivered to our home for our driveway. Kreigh and Monica and I saw it near where new hot lava was flowing slowly to the sea. But the really gorgeous rainbow stuff occurs where Pele's hair and reticulite are also found---in other words, where lava has exploded or fountained into the air....a long time ago---like 30 years ago. So I don't think time is a factor where rainbow is concerned---the stuff doesn't fade over the years. But maybe being close to the eruption is a factor---maybe it cools faster because it flies up into the air instead of rolling across the ground? Aloha, Kitty At 05:35 PM 7/29/2005, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > ...from my (limited) experience. I >also note that surface iradescence is more likely around cracks and >folds. From JWachsmuth at gmx.de Sat Jul 30 05:20:40 2005 From: JWachsmuth at gmx.de (Juergen Wachsmuth) Date: Sat Jul 30 05:21:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Waldens Gem Mine - where is it? References: <003601c57446$a12bc460$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> <00c601c57a6f$147ef3f0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <42EB7098.839E7C45@gmx.de> Hello, does anyone know about any locality like "Waldens Gem Mine" in California? I read this locality on a label of a pollucite specimen. In MINDAT I found "Connecticutt, Portland, Walden gem mine", and it is a pollucite locality. Now I am in doubt about the label. Thank you for any help J?rgen Wachsmuth Ulm - Germany From LarryRush at worldnet.att.net Sat Jul 30 06:34:40 2005 From: LarryRush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sat Jul 30 06:34:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Waldens Gem Mine - where is it? References: <003601c57446$a12bc460$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose><00c601c57a6f$147ef3f0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> <42EB7098.839E7C45@gmx.de> Message-ID: <001001c5950b$70902180$608d4c0c@fekib> There was a Walden Gem Mine in Portland, Connecticut back in the 60's. It was a small surface cut pegmatite which produced rubellite, gem beryl, and pollucite among other species. It closed sometime in the late 60's or early 70's and is no longer available. I visited several times, collected a small amount of pollucite, and a nice rubellite in lepidolite specimen, which is still in my collection. I don't know of any Walden mine in California. Larry Rush ================================================================= ----- Original Message ----- From: Juergen Wachsmuth To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 8:20 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Waldens Gem Mine - where is it? > Hello, > > does anyone know about any locality like "Waldens Gem Mine" in California? I > read this locality on a label of a pollucite specimen. > > In MINDAT I found "Connecticutt, Portland, Walden gem mine", and it is a > pollucite locality. Now I am in doubt about the label. > > Thank you for any help > > J?rgen Wachsmuth > Ulm - Germany > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.3 - Release Date: 12/21/04 > > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.3 - Release Date: 12/21/04 From agesilaus at gmail.com Sat Jul 30 06:59:11 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Jul 30 06:59:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Disposing of Muriatic Acid In-Reply-To: <8e.2c4d1f20.301c6981@aol.com> References: <8e.2c4d1f20.301c6981@aol.com> Message-ID: On 7/30/05, MCGINNISG@aol.com wrote: > > I have been read the very interesting post about Muriatic Acid but nothing > about the disposing of it. > If you goggle the disposing of Muriatic Acid, you'll get a million ways if > neutralizing the acid. Some wrong, some very wrong. > Some are strange and perhaps very dangerous! > Some are as follows: > You can use Sodium Hydroxide (Caustic Soda) to neutralize it and Litmus > paper to determine when the pH is 7 (neutral). Yeah if you have a death wish, forget about aiming for pH 7 either anywhere between 3-10 is good. > You can use baking soda. You can but it will take a lot of it. > Try using milk. Huh?! > Antacid tablets. LOL! > A piece of sheetrock as the lime will nuke it. Nope, sheet rock is CaSO4 no lime in it. > Alka Seltzer works best. See antacids above > Simply flood it out by diluting with 10 times the water. The will just raise the pH by 1 unit or less. > It's the same stuff as drain cleaner just flush it down the toilet! Nope > Now that you read them; which are correct and which are dangerous??? > PLEASE BEFORE YOU USE MURIATIC ACID; KNOW HOW TO SAFELY DISPOSE OF IT!!! > Timm You could have at least mentioned the correct way...use lime rock aka CaCO3 From jbf at jbfminerals.com Sat Jul 30 08:48:41 2005 From: jbf at jbfminerals.com (Jeff Fast) Date: Sat Jul 30 08:48:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Waldens Gem Mine - where is it? References: <003601c57446$a12bc460$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose><00c601c57a6f$147ef3f0$092cca0c@yourb79wz4rose> <42EB7098.839E7C45@gmx.de> Message-ID: <001201c5951e$2b84fb20$b757a545@Dell2004> Jurgen, Larry gave youthe correct information. I am sure at some point the CT abbreviation for Connecticut was mistakenly changed to CA for California. I have collected there, too, and it does have some pollucite, even some facetable pollucite. Jeff Fast www.jbfminerals.com (860) 985 - 6321 (USA) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juergen Wachsmuth" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 8:20 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Waldens Gem Mine - where is it? > Hello, > > does anyone know about any locality like "Waldens Gem Mine" in California? > I > read this locality on a label of a pollucite specimen. > > In MINDAT I found "Connecticutt, Portland, Walden gem mine", and it is a > pollucite locality. Now I am in doubt about the label. > > Thank you for any help > > J?rgen Wachsmuth > Ulm - Germany > From hammerron at yahoo.com Sat Jul 30 08:50:36 2005 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Sat Jul 30 08:50:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Waldens Gem Mine - where is it? In-Reply-To: <42EB7098.839E7C45@gmx.de> Message-ID: <20050730155036.24587.qmail@web81404.mail.yahoo.com> J?rgen: I, also being from Connecticut can confim that the Connecticut address is most likely accurate. Believe it was also called the Gotta-Walden Mine. -Ron http://www.hammerron.com/minerals Juergen Wachsmuth wrote: Hello, does anyone know about any locality like "Waldens Gem Mine" in California? I read this locality on a label of a pollucite specimen. In MINDAT I found "Connecticutt, Portland, Walden gem mine", and it is a pollucite locality. Now I am in doubt about the label. Thank you for any help J?rgen Wachsmuth Ulm - Germany _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at verizon.net Sat Jul 30 10:58:53 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Jul 30 10:59:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava In-Reply-To: <200507291935.j6TJZZYM023655@outmx010.isp.belgacom.be> References: <20050729183617.81989.qmail@web51011.mail.yahoo.com> <200507291935.j6TJZZYM023655@outmx010.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050730074429.025d0298@incoming.verizon.net> Another question: in some of your explanations (Rik, Jim, Kreigh, etc) you use the terms glassy and transparent. Most of the rainbow lava I've seen is shiny, even metallic in appearance. But some is not the least bit shiny. It has no sheen at all and resembles flat opaque acrylic paint, and reminds me of some "turgite" goethite. Does this kind of rainbow involve a different process? Aloha, Kitty From roughrock at gmail.com Sat Jul 30 11:25:24 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Sat Jul 30 11:25:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lazy, unthoughtful people.. Computer novices In-Reply-To: <009401c594ce$354e60b0$6401a8c0@Dri> References: <009401c594ce$354e60b0$6401a8c0@Dri> Message-ID: > Oh, I wish to offer my condolences that you use AOL. > > Respectfully: > Dri-Anna Davis I use Comcast to get online, Gmail for email, and I pay AOL $14.99 each month for access to the content they provide. It is to bad the critics of AOL don't understand what AOL users get for their money. However, it seems to be true. I earn a large part of my income from investing and AOL offers a lot more stock market and finance information (and research tools) than any other server. If they offered cable access in my area I would cancel Comcast -- but for now I pay Comcast for speed and AOL BYOB for content. If you don't understand AOL BYOB you lack the knowledge to criticize the service. Grant W. Johnston, Chico, CA From dwest122 at comcast.net Sat Jul 30 11:28:23 2005 From: dwest122 at comcast.net (Dave West) Date: Sat Jul 30 11:26:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lazy, unthoughtful people.. Computer novices References: <009401c594ce$354e60b0$6401a8c0@Dri> Message-ID: <006601c59534$7887c950$6600a8c0@davehxbu4rrruh> I have no desire in any way to offend or enrage anyone, but in the spirit of computer and list etiquette, shouldn't these lengthy, off subject posts go private? DaveW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dri-Anna" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 2:16 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Lazy, unthoughtful people.. Computer novices >...................................learn the basics and follow the rules of email etiquette or > Netiquette with regard to messaging...................................................... From DOMMELEN at DAL.CA Sat Jul 30 11:30:46 2005 From: DOMMELEN at DAL.CA (Ronnie Van Dommelen) Date: Sat Jul 30 11:30:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Triangular Prismatic Calcite/Aragonite Message-ID: <20050730153046.bmlolhiak8gsowks@my2.dal.ca> Hi All, A friend of mine recently found an unknown mineral from the Bay of Fundy basalts. The crystals are in small jackstraw clusters, small (< 1 mm), and translucent white. They fizz in acid. The likely candidates are calcite and aragonite. The problem for us is that they are thin triangular prisms (with pinacoidal terminations). We don't have a lot of material for the purpose of testing. Has anyone seen either calcite or aragonite in what appears to be a triangular prism? Thanks in advance. Happy Collecting, Ronnie Van Dommelen From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 30 11:31:42 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sat Jul 30 11:31:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050730074429.025d0298@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <20050730183143.72563.qmail@web51007.mail.yahoo.com> The glassy transparent skin is very, very thin. I can just barely make it out with my microscope. You couldn't see it with the naked eye, or even a hand lens. I haven't seen any that was dull and still iridescent. I'd like to examine some under the microscope. As for the other hypotheses that have been advanced, I'm still thinking. More later. Jim --- Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > Another question: in some of your explanations > (Rik, Jim, Kreigh, etc) you > use the terms glassy and transparent. Most of the > rainbow lava I've seen > is shiny, even metallic in appearance. But some is > not the least bit > shiny. It has no sheen at all and resembles flat > opaque acrylic paint, and > reminds me of some "turgite" goethite. Does this > kind of rainbow involve a > different process? > > Aloha, Kitty > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 30 14:56:17 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sat Jul 30 14:56:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Microminerals from Sauktown Sales Message-ID: <20050730215617.96606.qmail@web51012.mail.yahoo.com> I've updated the price list at www.sauktown.com This month's update is mainly from the Palermo #1 Mine in New Hampshire. There are many items that I had run out of earlier, so now there's a second chance if you missed out! I've also updated the mailing list. If you are included, and do not want to be, please let me know. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales www.sauktown.com orders@sauktown.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From kadok at infowest.com Sat Jul 30 15:00:29 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sat Jul 30 15:00:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lazy, unthoughtful people Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 14, Issue 30 In-Reply-To: <013501c5946a$1df7caf0$6501a8c0@Robynne> Message-ID: <20050730220023.3F2DCA1071@marbella.infowest.com> RRE: I think the main reason people do not erase the message is that, when you are answering a question, people really do need to know what the question was that you are replying to! MM _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Paintricks at aol.com Sat Jul 30 15:39:47 2005 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Sat Jul 30 15:40:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] valuing geodes question? Message-ID: <1d8.41e5b9cc.301d5bb3@aol.com> Hi all, I recently came across some geodes and was wondering how I could value them. I know it varies from size and location, mineral content and so forth. The ones I have are dog toothed calcite and another kind of calcite not sure what kind yet. I still need to study it further. They are the size of a softball up to basketball size and have cretaceous fossil shells imbedded in them. They are very unique so I'm a little unsure of what they may be worth. I usually like to trade minerals before I sell them. You know it's hard to let go of rocks when you enjoy them so much. Plus I know exactly when and where I found all of them so each has a story. Who I was with, nearly having heat stroke hauling them out, smashed fingers, bug attacks, and mud in the car. What a great hobby. Can't wait to go get more. Your buddy in rocks, Kevin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Jul 30 16:07:22 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Jul 30 16:04:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava References: <20050729164703.3699AA106F@marbella.infowest.com><42EAC33B.3F73@Tomaszewski.net> <42EAF594.25AC@Tomaszewski.net> <000901c594cc$4eeb2640$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <42EC0780.1C5B@Tomaszewski.net> jaybates wrote: > > Why don't you answer my question if you have a sample and have examined it? I must have missed a post, or erased it with the spam accidently, because I don't know what your question was. Could you please ask it again? Thanks! Kreigh From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 30 16:46:01 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sat Jul 30 16:46:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oops! Message-ID: <20050730234602.67108.qmail@web51009.mail.yahoo.com> Just noticed that I forgot to put "AD:" in the subject line of my recent post. My apologies, and I hope I don't do it again. Jim Daly __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From Rocknlight at aol.com Sat Jul 30 18:27:03 2005 From: Rocknlight at aol.com (Rocknlight@aol.com) Date: Sat Jul 30 18:27:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] DRI-ANNA Lazy, unthoughtful people.. Computer novices Message-ID: Dri-Anna / I am happy for you that you have the time, the future retirement money ! and the intellect to learn new things.. Yet, not everyone is like you, or has the money peace of mind and time to spare like you do... If they did, everyone overall would have graduated college and be earning 60 + % pay in their retirement and have the cognitive ability to be a Mensa member.. I know several people in the aerospace industry and although they are ALL highly intelligent, well educated and disciplined to a fault people, they really need to relax and not expect that everyone can live up to the way they think and the way your words demand.. ( I now quote your words ) " Unfortunately - just because - not any excuse - Follow the Rules - NOT an Excuse - wish to learn the basics - This person SHOULD NOT be on line - Be clear in understanding - RULES that SHOULD be FOLLOWED - make sure - I do not ever waste my time - e mail etiquette - I do not waste my time - Should Be -make sure - Should Be and Should Be -' " 'You then end by stating "LEARN OR LOG OFF !" I hope you can see the intolerant, furore-like attitude in those words and further hope that smart, well educated, retired financially secure people overall, can learn to be more tolerant and less, ( Do it my way, the RIGHT way, or log off and leave ! ) PS I am not the person this e mail thread was about in the first place, but I am the person who represents the majority and not the Mensas... RESPECTFULLY RnL From jlkelly1066 at iglide.net Sat Jul 30 18:34:40 2005 From: jlkelly1066 at iglide.net (JL Kelly) Date: Sat Jul 30 18:33:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) Message-ID: <002101c59570$0667d130$2f0cbed8@karolzg5f1uiqk> Rainbow lava, AOL and the stockmarket, No, I was going to go on and on and on, as so much of the drivel has for the past few weeks with this list. For crying out loud, I thought this was a "rockhound" list. I won't go into details but all of you "must" realize how this is getting out of hand. I just, quite laboriously went through every message in the list. easily 90% of that written was pure, shall we say, less than quality and extremely time wasting. What is wrong with refering to any message with just the subject line instead of copying the same (*^*(&)(*&*() message again with all of the other information??? There was one message in the list today that had been forwarded or replied to three (3) times. Come on! Kreigh, Kitty, I don't think I am alone in this plea. What about some guidelines or basic rules that are enforced. What is all of this nit-picking, name calling and of subject garbage and when, if ever, is it going to stop. I love the idea but I honestly really hate to have to wade through all of the "merde" to find something of quality. Help! Kelly --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at verizon.net Sat Jul 30 18:45:39 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Jul 30 18:45:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] PLEASE STOP Lazy, unthoughtful people.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050730154009.025dba70@incoming.verizon.net> Can we please stop this thread. Aaron and Dave are right. Let's stick to rocks and follow the rules as much as possible. Aloha, Kitty >http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/laup.html >Nobody ever reads it or follows it, but I still try. See Item #5. >Aaron >shouldn't these lengthy, off subject posts go >private? >DaveW At 03:27 PM 7/30/2005, RnL wrote: >Dri-Anna / >I am happy for you that you have the time, the future retirement money ! and >the intellect to learn new things.. Yet, not everyone is like you, or has >the >money peace of mind and time to spare like you do... If they did, everyone >overall would have graduated college and be earning 60 + % pay in their >retirement and have the cognitive ability to be a Mensa member.. From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Jul 30 18:49:15 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Jul 30 18:49:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] valuing geodes question? References: <1d8.41e5b9cc.301d5bb3@aol.com> Message-ID: <42EC2E16.2619@Tomaszewski.net> Kevin, Write a trip report about each of your specimens that has a story. Share the story with others privately, in your Club Newsletter, or with this List. Put a copy in your catalog, or with the label, so it can go with the specimen should it ever (eventually) acquire a new owner. Newsletter Editors love good collecting stories (or just about any other submission on anything related to Rockhounding). This list likes good Field Trip reports. And with better documentation your specimens should become more valuable. Please start with the geodes that have fossils in them. I would enjoy hearing more about them as it might tell us something about geode formation. Do you have pictures available (the List could get them posted)? These sound pretty unusual, where are they from? Kreigh Paintricks@aol.com wrote: > > Hi all, > I recently came across some geodes and was wondering how I could value > them. I know it varies from size and location, mineral content and so forth. > The ones I have are dog toothed calcite and another kind of calcite not > sure what kind yet. I still need to study it further. They are the size of a > softball up to basketball size and have cretaceous fossil shells imbedded in > them. They are very unique so I'm a little unsure of what they may be worth. > I usually like to trade minerals before I sell them. You know it's hard to > let go of rocks when you enjoy them so much. Plus I know exactly when and > where I found all of them so each has a story. Who I was with, nearly having > heat stroke hauling them out, smashed fingers, bug attacks, and mud in the > car. > What a great hobby. Can't wait to go get more. > Your buddy in rocks, > Kevin From jaybates at rcn.com Sat Jul 30 18:55:52 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sat Jul 30 18:54:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava References: <20050729164703.3699AA106F@marbella.infowest.com><42EAC33B.3F73@Tomaszewski.net><42EAF594.25AC@Tomaszewski.net><000901c594cc$4eeb2640$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <42EC0780.1C5B@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000f01c59572$fb7e5ca0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Kreigh, I asked if anyone had tried to check the depth of the irridescence of the samples of the Rainbow lava. I saw in a later post of yours that it is very thin. Since that is the case, it is going to be very difficult to determine what causes the irridescence and I am going to stay out of any further discussion. I was thinking along the lines of a similar phenomenon of sheen in obsidian. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 4:07 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava > jaybates wrote: > > > > Why don't you answer my question if you have a sample and have examined it? > > I must have missed a post, or erased it with the spam accidently, > because I don't know what your question was. Could you please ask it > again? Thanks! > > Kreigh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release Date: 12/26/04 > > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release Date: 12/26/04 From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Jul 30 19:47:36 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Jul 30 19:47:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava References: <20050729164703.3699AA106F@marbella.infowest.com><42EAC33B.3F73@Tomaszewski.net><42EAF594.25AC@Tomaszewski.net><000901c594cc$4eeb2640$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <42EC0780.1C5B@Tomaszewski.net> <000f01c59572$fb7e5ca0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <42EC3BBB.764E@Tomaszewski.net> I've gone to 30X (my next step was 120, and I could not get a good view, but it still appeared to be a surface effect), and can only say it is surface. I have just a few of the dull specimens Kitty referenced, and again can only say it appears to be surface. To answer Kitty's question, I consider the surface to be both the outside surface, and anything visible on exposed interior faces; I consider surface to be the rock/gas interface, even to the inside of included bubbles. Kreigh jaybates wrote: > > Kreigh, I asked if anyone had tried to check the depth of the irridescence > of the samples of the Rainbow lava. I saw in a later post of yours that it > is very thin. Since that is the case, it is going to be very difficult to > determine what causes the irridescence and I am going to stay out of any > further discussion. I was thinking along the lines of a similar phenomenon > of sheen in obsidian. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > > jaybates wrote: > > > > > > Why don't you answer my question if you have a sample and have examined > it? > > > > I must have missed a post, or erased it with the spam accidently, > > because I don't know what your question was. Could you please ask it > > again? Thanks! > > > > Kreigh > > _______________________________________________ From Paintricks at aol.com Sat Jul 30 19:51:40 2005 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Sat Jul 30 19:51:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] valuing geodes question? Message-ID: <1df.40fe7a21.301d96bc@aol.com> I found them in North East Texas at a place called the North Sulfer river. I wanted to keep the location pretty quiet so that they aren't picked over. I will be getting more pretty soon though. I want to keep the location North East Texas to the list because I know once it get's out It'll be a frenzy. Many on this list know of this location. Kinda like that favorite fishin' hole. I'll get you all the info you need for just you and a select few. When I send you a picture of them I'll Give you the report. Where are you from? I'll get started on the pix now for you. Heads up. Later man. Kevin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Sat Jul 30 20:47:48 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sat Jul 30 20:47:56 2005 Subject: FW: Re: [Rockhounds] Rockhound's Guide to Montana, Base Coordinates... Message-ID: > > > > I was very impressed on our trip with JL & Carol Kelly's laptop/GPS system > > on our trip in western Utah a couple of months ago. > > > > I also get to do a bit of fishing in the Gulf of Mexico near Mobile, and GPS > > is the only way to go. Beats the Loran by miles. > > > > Glenn > > > > > > >From: J Bryan Kramer <agesilaus@gmail.com> > > > > > >Or you can get a gps add on for your notebook computer like the > > >Earthmate, a much better solution IMHO. > > > > > >BK > > > > > >On 7/28/05, Al Balmer <albalmer@att.net> wrote: > > > > jaybates wrote: > > > > > Scary and frustrating. I know. Sometimes my better half navigates and > > misses > > > > > the turns. I guess it is too boring to sit there and keep track on the > > map > > > > > as you go along. "After all, look at all the pretty scenery." grumble, > > > > > grumble. Don't they make those little auto compasses for the > > directionally > > > > > challanged? > > > > > > > > > Even better, they make GPS units for auto travel. I've been using one > > > > for years, and can't imagine traveling without it. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Find e-mail and documents on your PC instantly with the new MSN Search Toolbar–FREE! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From dmschmidt at sprint.ca Sat Jul 30 20:55:41 2005 From: dmschmidt at sprint.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Sat Jul 30 20:55:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhound's Guide to Montana, Base Coordinates... References: Message-ID: <0dd701c59583$be261b70$6602a8c0@remains> what's with the >'s??? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Wimpee" To: Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 9:47 PM Subject: FW: Re: [Rockhounds] Rockhound's Guide to Montana, Base Coordinates... > > > > > > I was very impressed on our trip with JL & Carol Kelly's > laptop/GPS system > > > on our trip in western Utah a couple of months ago. > > > > > > I also get to do a bit of fishing in the Gulf of Mexico near > Mobile, and GPS > > > is the only way to go. Beats the Loran by miles. > > > > > > Glenn > > > > > > > > > >From: J Bryan Kramer <agesilaus@gmail.com> > > > > > > > >Or you can get a gps add on for your notebook computer like > the > > > >Earthmate, a much better solution IMHO. > > > > > > > >BK > > > > > > > >On 7/28/05, Al Balmer <albalmer@att.net> wrote: > > > > > jaybates wrote: > > > > > > Scary and frustrating. I know. Sometimes my > better half > navigates and > > > misses > > > > > > the turns. I guess it is too boring to sit there > and keep track on the > > > map > > > > > > as you go along. "After all, look at all the > pretty scenery." grumble, > > > > > > grumble. Don't they make those little auto > compasses for the > > > directionally > > > > > > challanged? > > > > > > > > > > > Even better, they make GPS units for auto travel. I've > been using one > > > > > for years, and can't imagine traveling without it. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > Find e-mail and documents on your PC instantly with the new MSN Search > Toolbar-FREE! > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > text/html (html body -- converted) > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pchil at botsnet.bw Sat Jul 30 22:58:48 2005 From: pchil at botsnet.bw (P.C. Hulley) Date: Sat Jul 30 22:58:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhound's Guide to Montana, Base Coordinates... References: <001601c590b0$9f54dd30$12b4010a@warren><000501c590b8$877b15a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com><057e01c592fc$73c8a3b0$12b4010a@warren> <000201c5939f$ab6281d0$423e27c4@privatehome> Message-ID: <000201bf1baa$7200ab60$e348a7a8@hulley> Try adding a little sugar to "Sunlight" ( hard green all purpose laundry soap) sets like rock! I drove for a good six months with a wad on my fuel tank when living in Henties Bay. Eventually sold the "bakkie" with the soap firmly in place and still doing its job! >From Hildagarde Hulley in an even sunnier Botswana! ----- Original Message ----- From: Horst Windisch To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rockhound's Guide to Montana, Base Coordinates... > Hi there, > > We used to plug a leak in the gas tank with "Sunlight" soap.. Works like a > dream. > > > > John will write about the > > lost-oil-plug-and-oil-replaced-with-a-stick-and-transmission-fluid-50-miles- from-Prineville > > story. lol > > > > Thanks, Jay! > > > > Julie From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Jul 31 04:01:59 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Jul 31 04:02:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050729075806.02614268@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: Hi Kitty Axel is alive and kicking and also on summer... eh... what's the opposite of hibernation? Unfortunately most of our MKA members are oversummering too ;-))) Summer recess is three months: second Sunday of June until second Friday of September. In principle me skip only two meetings but the actual recess is three months. >From talking to people who should know about his stuff: Interference is the key word. What Rik says makes much sense, as usual. A summary of what everybody else says covers the subject too, except for some minor details. I don't see how a metallic film can be deposited on thin layers of lava, for example. If that were the case, the layers would act as dielectric filters more than iridescent reflectors, wouldn't they? Anyway Kitty: As a response to your "3 rainbow items": >1) a re-stated question: Are we talking about the surface of the >lava that I can look at in a specimen, or the surfaces of cells or >molecules (or whatever small bit) that the lava is made of? ...this to >explain why I see iridescence that appears to be throughout and inside of >samples, not just on the outside surface. We see the light traveling in part through the wall of a cell/layer. It bounces back off the INSIDE surface of that thin layer and travels back to us again through the glassy substance. Another part of the light bounces off the surface on our side of the layer. The light waves going through the layer have traveled a slightly longer path than the light that reflected without penetrating inside the layer. If the layer has a thickness (in the direction that you view it) that makes the path of light that travels through it exactly n.5 wavelengths longer than the light that reflects off the outer surface, that wavelength will disappear. n.5 means 1.5 , 2.5, 3.5... probably n < 5 or 6. This effect causes interference and extinction of some wavelengths. The remaining wavelengths of light are the colors that we see. Technically: the color in not inside the layer (like colored glass) or ON the layer (like gold or bismuth or copper) but it sprouts from a dynamic process of extinction of certain colors from the white light that falls on the specimen. You will not see iridescence if you light the specimens with blue light or red light or whatever monochromatic light. >2)I know there are lots of different names for >the effects seen in labradorite, microcline, feldspar, etc. With the exception of moonstone, star ruby/sapphire, most iridescence has the same origin... Pyrite, opal, a peacock's tail... >I seem to >recall that interference is a term Bill has used (he's not around to help >me at the moment), and that there is a difference between diffraction >interference and thin film interference? Yes but both are caused by differences in path length of photons that are n times half a wavelength of the light color that is extinguished. >Thin film type involves 1 or 2 >reflecting elements? Yes, the inner surface of the glassy bubble and the outside surface. In fact, I believe that iridescence in lava is exactly the same as in a soap bubble. ______B________ inside surface (IS) /\ d __B'/__\B"_____ /\ /\ outside surface (OS) / \A' \ A C C' If the scheme comes through in the intended format, consider this: Light is partially reflected from IS (ABC') as well as OS (AB'C) Light that travels A'B"C' is on the path of light that travels ABC' but is shifted over the distance B'BB". If B'BB" is 900 nm long, the light beam ABC'is 300 nm longer than light beam A'B"C'. Any photons of 300 nm in both light beam ABC'AND light beam A'B"C' will be shifted by half their wavelength and they will extinguish each other. I hope this clarifies some of the mystery? >diffraction is like what's seen on the back of >beetles and can be in lots of things that reflect light, like parallel >lines of little stuff or involve spherules like in opals? I'm not sure of the beetles but yes, basically. Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kitty & Bill Heacox Verzonden: vrijdag 29 juli 2005 20:04 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava All I can tell you about the iridescence is to describe the various forms it takes and in what kind of situations it's found. I sent several pieces to Axel and he was going to have it analyzed and get back to us. Are you there Axel? Any results yet? Aloha, Kitty At 06:47 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote: >Hi, Kitty; > >Re the irridescent lava -- I have a couple of small pieces circa about 1990 >(the year of the big eclipse), with blue and gold (like Pele's hair) >irridescence. (Our class walked out to where the lva was fallling into the >see, & I found them along the way.) Obviously fairly fresh. >What can you tell us about what causes the irridescence? I/we had assumed >that it might be a very thin (one wavelength thick) layer of a metal?? > >Margaret _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pbhewitt at comcast.net Sun Jul 31 05:35:07 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Sun Jul 31 04:35:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] valuing geodes question? References: <1d8.41e5b9cc.301d5bb3@aol.com> Message-ID: <000901c595cc$4903cce0$6501a8c0@maingear> Sounds like septarian nodules to me. Are those things found in the US? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 6:39 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] valuing geodes question? > Hi all, > I recently came across some geodes and was wondering how I could value > them. I know it varies from size and location, mineral content and so > forth. > The ones I have are dog toothed calcite and another kind of calcite not > sure what kind yet. I still need to study it further. They are the size > of a > softball up to basketball size and have cretaceous fossil shells imbedded > in > them. They are very unique so I'm a little unsure of what they may be > worth. > I usually like to trade minerals before I sell them. You know it's hard > to > let go of rocks when you enjoy them so much. Plus I know exactly when > and > where I found all of them so each has a story. Who I was with, nearly > having > heat stroke hauling them out, smashed fingers, bug attacks, and mud in > the > car. > What a great hobby. Can't wait to go get more. > Your buddy in rocks, > Kevin > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rpr at heidelberg.edu Sun Jul 31 06:00:49 2005 From: rpr at heidelberg.edu (R. Peter Richards) Date: Sun Jul 31 06:01:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Triangular Prismatic Calcite/Aragonite In-Reply-To: <20050730153046.bmlolhiak8gsowks@my2.dal.ca> References: <20050730153046.bmlolhiak8gsowks@my2.dal.ca> Message-ID: Ronnie (et al), Unfortunately, I have seen both calcite and aragonite with triangular "prisms" (or in the case of calcite, very steep rhombohedra). Also you can add strontianite to the possibilities. Aragonite/strontianite might seem improbable candidates for a triangular cross-section, but this happens due to twinning on crystals from Jackson County, Michigan that I have studied. Look for cleavage on broken crystals or cleavage traces on intact ones. This should distinguish calcite from the other two. If it's one of the other two, a flame test should distinguish between the calcium in aragonite and the strontium in strontianite. Good luck! Pete >Hi All, > >A friend of mine recently found an unknown mineral from the Bay of Fundy >basalts. The crystals are in small jackstraw clusters, small (< 1 mm), and >translucent white. They fizz in acid. The likely candidates are calcite and >aragonite. > >The problem for us is that they are thin triangular prisms (with pinacoidal >terminations). We don't have a lot of material for the purpose of testing. >Has anyone seen either calcite or aragonite in what appears to be a triangular >prism? > >Thanks in advance. > >Happy Collecting, >Ronnie Van Dommelen >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Jul 31 06:27:31 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Jul 31 06:27:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oops, I wrote: Any photons of 300 nm in both light beam ABC'AND light beam A'B"C' will be shifted by half their wavelength and they will extinguish each other. Naturally everybody figured out that I meant 600 nm. Thanks for not shooting me right away ;-))))) And why are the photons extinguishing each other when shifted 1/2 wavelength? \/\/\/\/\/ imagine a sine wave /\/\/\/\/\ another sine wave shifted 1/2 WL Imagine the crests having a value of +1 and the valleys a value of -1. Move the shifted wave up so that it overlaps the first wave but don't move laterally, just up! Now you see the overlapping waves as XXXXX Now draw a line through the crossings of the X's. That line is the zero energy line. Each sine represents the energy a photon has at a certain point in time. The sum of the energy of the two photons (original + the on that is shifted by 1/2 WL) is the mean of the energy of the two waves: i.o.w. the sum of the graph above and graph below the zero energy line. You'll see that this sum amoubnts to zero all the way along the time line. That is why thin layers (of bubble walls) of lava extinct certain colors of light and let others pass. That's what iridescence is about. Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Axel Emmermann Verzonden: zondag 31 juli 2005 13:02 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava Hi Kitty Axel is alive and kicking and also on summer... eh... what's the opposite of hibernation? Unfortunately most of our MKA members are oversummering too ;-))) Summer recess is three months: second Sunday of June until second Friday of September. In principle me skip only two meetings but the actual recess is three months. >From talking to people who should know about his stuff: Interference is the key word. What Rik says makes much sense, as usual. A summary of what everybody else says covers the subject too, except for some minor details. I don't see how a metallic film can be deposited on thin layers of lava, for example. If that were the case, the layers would act as dielectric filters more than iridescent reflectors, wouldn't they? Anyway Kitty: As a response to your "3 rainbow items": >1) a re-stated question: Are we talking about the surface of the >lava that I can look at in a specimen, or the surfaces of cells or >molecules (or whatever small bit) that the lava is made of? ...this to >explain why I see iridescence that appears to be throughout and inside of >samples, not just on the outside surface. We see the light traveling in part through the wall of a cell/layer. It bounces back off the INSIDE surface of that thin layer and travels back to us again through the glassy substance. Another part of the light bounces off the surface on our side of the layer. The light waves going through the layer have traveled a slightly longer path than the light that reflected without penetrating inside the layer. If the layer has a thickness (in the direction that you view it) that makes the path of light that travels through it exactly n.5 wavelengths longer than the light that reflects off the outer surface, that wavelength will disappear. n.5 means 1.5 , 2.5, 3.5... probably n < 5 or 6. This effect causes interference and extinction of some wavelengths. The remaining wavelengths of light are the colors that we see. Technically: the color in not inside the layer (like colored glass) or ON the layer (like gold or bismuth or copper) but it sprouts from a dynamic process of extinction of certain colors from the white light that falls on the specimen. You will not see iridescence if you light the specimens with blue light or red light or whatever monochromatic light. >2)I know there are lots of different names for >the effects seen in labradorite, microcline, feldspar, etc. With the exception of moonstone, star ruby/sapphire, most iridescence has the same origin... Pyrite, opal, a peacock's tail... >I seem to >recall that interference is a term Bill has used (he's not around to help >me at the moment), and that there is a difference between diffraction >interference and thin film interference? Yes but both are caused by differences in path length of photons that are n times half a wavelength of the light color that is extinguished. >Thin film type involves 1 or 2 >reflecting elements? Yes, the inner surface of the glassy bubble and the outside surface. In fact, I believe that iridescence in lava is exactly the same as in a soap bubble. ______B________ inside surface (IS) /\ d __B'/__\B"_____ /\ /\ outside surface (OS) / \A' \ A C C' If the scheme comes through in the intended format, consider this: Light is partially reflected from IS (ABC') as well as OS (AB'C) Light that travels A'B"C' is on the path of light that travels ABC' but is shifted over the distance B'BB". If B'BB" is 900 nm long, the light beam ABC'is 300 nm longer than light beam A'B"C'. Any photons of 300 nm in both light beam ABC'AND light beam A'B"C' will be shifted by half their wavelength and they will extinguish each other. I hope this clarifies some of the mystery? >diffraction is like what's seen on the back of >beetles and can be in lots of things that reflect light, like parallel >lines of little stuff or involve spherules like in opals? I'm not sure of the beetles but yes, basically. Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kitty & Bill Heacox Verzonden: vrijdag 29 juli 2005 20:04 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava All I can tell you about the iridescence is to describe the various forms it takes and in what kind of situations it's found. I sent several pieces to Axel and he was going to have it analyzed and get back to us. Are you there Axel? Any results yet? Aloha, Kitty At 06:47 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote: >Hi, Kitty; > >Re the irridescent lava -- I have a couple of small pieces circa about 1990 >(the year of the big eclipse), with blue and gold (like Pele's hair) >irridescence. (Our class walked out to where the lva was fallling into the >see, & I found them along the way.) Obviously fairly fresh. >What can you tell us about what causes the irridescence? I/we had assumed >that it might be a very thin (one wavelength thick) layer of a metal?? > >Margaret _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Paintricks at aol.com Sun Jul 31 08:36:45 2005 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Sun Jul 31 08:37:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] valuing geodes question? Message-ID: <65.4a5ae072.301e4a0d@aol.com> In a message dated 7/31/2005 6:35:47 A.M. Central Standard Time, pbhewitt@comcast.net writes: Sounds like septarian nodules to me. Are those things found in the US? They are from North East Texas. In the cretaceous layer 30 feet down. Please Explain the "septarian" nodules. Thanks, Kevin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From scottkleine at greatbasinminerals.com Sun Jul 31 10:23:55 2005 From: scottkleine at greatbasinminerals.com (Scott Kleine, Great Basin Minerals) Date: Sun Jul 31 10:20:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meikle Mine (Nevada) MILLERITE update- References: <20050706214758.SOXT14901.imta01a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> Message-ID: <013f01c595f4$a4238fc0$4e07a940@gbm> Hello All, I have just updated my web site with 16 new Meikle millerite thumbnails ($15-$100 each) and will be posting larger specimens in a few days- http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Meikle%20Millerite%20TN%27s%20Page%201.htm All the best! Scott Kleine- Great Basin Minerals www.greatbasinminerals.com scottkleine@greatbasinminerals.com From Ted at crystalgems.com Sun Jul 31 11:23:58 2005 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted) Date: Sun Jul 31 11:24:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Introduction : Kimberlite/ Lamproite wanted In-Reply-To: <20050729233102.58845.qmail@web53205.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005101c595fc$fb79ae00$0200a8c0@gametime> Dirk: Welcome to the forum! Impact research huh? Sounds like a great addition to our little forum. One comment and two questions for you. Comment: Rockhounds does have an advertisement policy. Ads are allowed, but many members, (including myself) delete AD emails without much more than glancing at them. It's easiest not to spend scarce cash if I don't tempt myself. Your introduction might be overlooked because AD was in your subject line (as it should be when advertising something). Which brings me to my first question... I didn't see an advertisement in your introduction. What are you advertising? My second question is multiple and relates to your kimberlite request. Are you looking for kimberlite/Lamproite samples, or impact diamonds? If Kimberlite/Lamproite; do you want rock or weathered material, or both. Or are you looking for anything relating to kimberlite/lamproite pipes? Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of drtanuki Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 7:31 PM To: mailing list for rock and gem collectors; dirk ross Subject: [Rockhounds] Introduction and AD: Kimberlite/ Lamproite wanted Dear List Members, Thank you for the opportunity to join your list. I am a meteorite/impact researcher living in Tokyo, Japan. My research is focused on tektite formation and impact craters in SE Asia. I also study impactites. If anyone on this list requires help from Asia please let me know. I often travel to Taiwan, Thailand, Laos, Burma, Cambodia, China and the Philippines. Currently, one of my students is studying relationships between kimberlites and lamproites and impact diamond formation. If any member has specimens from known locations for sale/trade or knows of commercial sources please contact me. Thank you in advance. Sincerely, Dirk Ross...Tokyo ___ From Ted at crystalgems.com Sun Jul 31 11:51:57 2005 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted) Date: Sun Jul 31 11:52:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] valuing geodes question? In-Reply-To: <65.4a5ae072.301e4a0d@aol.com> Message-ID: <005601c59600$e4bfd230$0200a8c0@gametime> Kevin: Some links to septarian nodules. Yes, they are found in the US. http://www.westdesertcollectors.com/pages/septarian_price_page.htm http://www.stoneageindustries.com/septarian_nodules.html And of course in the round at "sphere's to you" site. http://www.stoneageindustries.com/septarian_nodules.html Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Paintricks@aol.com Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 11:37 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] valuing geodes question? In a message dated 7/31/2005 6:35:47 A.M. Central Standard Time, pbhewitt@comcast.net writes: Sounds like septarian nodules to me. Are those things found in the US? They are from North East Texas. In the cretaceous layer 30 feet down. Please Explain the "septarian" nodules. Thanks, Kevin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From drtanuki at yahoo.com Sun Jul 31 12:23:27 2005 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Sun Jul 31 12:23:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Introduction : Kimberlite/ Lamproite wanted/ Rainbow Obsidian In-Reply-To: <005101c595fc$fb79ae00$0200a8c0@gametime> Message-ID: <20050731192328.69466.qmail@web53204.mail.yahoo.com> Dear Ted and List, Thank you for the welcome. To answer your first question, I placed AD in the title because I was offering my services if anyone needed anything from Asia, rocks, minerals, etc. I am searching for Kimberlite or Lamproite to do comparisons with impactite bearing diamonds. We are trying to compare as many Kimberlites and Lamproites from as many known localities as possible with known impactites bearing diamonds. There are several cases were impactites have been initially confused with Kimberlites because of their diamond content. So, if anyone on this list has access to Kimberlites or Lamproites please contact me off list. Currently we have specimens from about 10 localities. Thanks. To answer about a prior question concerning Rainbow obsidian, the pastel iridescence is caused by micro-crystals frozen along different planes of flow within the obsidian. Silver sheen and gold sheen obsidians have larger micro-crystals resembling mica. Since I missed most of these postings I hope this helps answer some of your questions. Thank you again. Sincerely, Dirk Ross...Tokyo --- Ted wrote: > > Dirk: > Welcome to the forum! Impact research huh? Sounds > like a great addition to > our little forum. > > One comment and two questions for you. > > Comment: Rockhounds does have an advertisement > policy. Ads are allowed, but > many members, (including myself) delete AD emails > without much more than > glancing at them. It's easiest not to spend scarce > cash if I don't tempt > myself. Your introduction might be overlooked > because AD was in your subject > line (as it should be when advertising something). > > Which brings me to my first question... I didn't see > an advertisement in > your introduction. What are you advertising? > > My second question is multiple and relates to your > kimberlite request. Are > you looking for kimberlite/Lamproite samples, or > impact diamonds? If > Kimberlite/Lamproite; do you want rock or weathered > material, or both. Or > are you looking for anything relating to > kimberlite/lamproite pipes? > > Ted Kowalski > Fredericksburg, VA USA > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On > Behalf Of drtanuki > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 7:31 PM > To: mailing list for rock and gem collectors; dirk > ross > Subject: [Rockhounds] Introduction and AD: > Kimberlite/ Lamproite wanted > > > Dear List Members, > > Thank you for the opportunity to join your list. > I > am a meteorite/impact researcher living in Tokyo, > Japan. > > My research is focused on tektite formation and > impact craters in SE Asia. I also study impactites. > > If anyone on this list requires help from Asia > please let me know. I often travel to Taiwan, > Thailand, Laos, Burma, Cambodia, China and the > Philippines. > > Currently, one of my students is studying > relationships between kimberlites and lamproites and > impact diamond formation. If any member has > specimens > from known locations for sale/trade or knows of > commercial sources please contact me. Thank you in > advance. > Sincerely, Dirk Ross...Tokyo > > > > ___ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From kahako at verizon.net Sun Jul 31 12:55:12 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Jul 31 12:55:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] valuing geodes question? In-Reply-To: <005601c59600$e4bfd230$0200a8c0@gametime> References: <65.4a5ae072.301e4a0d@aol.com> <005601c59600$e4bfd230$0200a8c0@gametime> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050731094948.025cf3d8@incoming.verizon.net> Ted, you repeated the stone industries site for Sphere's To You. Here's the right one: http://www.spherestoyou.com/Sshoppe/septarian.htm Also, FWIW, all my septarian nodule specimens fluoresce: dim creamy white under SW, brighter under LW. Aloha, Kitty At 08:51 AM 7/31/2005, you wrote: >Kevin: >Some links to septarian nodules. Yes, they are found in the US. > >http://www.westdesertcollectors.com/pages/septarian_price_page.htm >http://www.stoneageindustries.com/septarian_nodules.html > >And of course in the round at "sphere's to you" site. >http://www.stoneageindustries.com/septarian_nodules.html > >Ted Kowalski >Fredericksburg, VA USA From Ted at crystalgems.com Sun Jul 31 13:07:59 2005 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted) Date: Sun Jul 31 13:08:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] valuing geodes question? In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050731094948.025cf3d8@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <000601c5960b$8b586580$0200a8c0@gametime> My bad and apologies to all! - Ted, you repeated the stone industries site for Sphere's To You. Here's the right one: http://www.spherestoyou.com/Sshoppe/septarian.htm Also, FWIW, all my septarian nodule specimens fluoresce: dim creamy white under SW, brighter under LW. Aloha, Kitty From kadok at infowest.com Sun Jul 31 14:01:23 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sun Jul 31 14:01:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] valuing geodes question? In-Reply-To: <65.4a5ae072.301e4a0d@aol.com> Message-ID: <20050731210115.5E2AE1E3028@alora.infowest.com> >In a message dated 7/31/2005 6:35:47 A.M. Central Standard Time, pbhewitt@comcast.net writes: >>Sounds like septarian nodules to me. Are those things found in the US? >They are from North East Texas. In the cretaceous layer 30 feet down. Please Explain the "septarian" nodules. Thanks, Kevin Yes, we definitely do have septarian nodules in the U. S. Some really neat ones in Utah not far from here. They are sort of like geodes, but have calcite (often dogtooth) xls in them. Margaret --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhoundsmovie at hotmail.com Sun Jul 31 15:25:23 2005 From: rockhoundsmovie at hotmail.com (RockHounds: The Movie) Date: Sun Jul 31 15:25:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] PRESS RELEASE: RockHounds: The Movie Premieres at Australian Film Festival Message-ID: See press release below. Thanks, Todd Kent Director/Producer "RockHounds: The Movie" http://www.rockhoundsmovie.com “RockHounds: The Movie” Film Festival Premiere in the Land Down Under For Immediate Release (hi res pictures available) Crikey! “RockHounds: The Movie” will make its film festival debut as an official selection of “SCINEMA ‘05 - Festival of Science Film.” The screening will take place at the Discovery Centre in Canberra, Australia on August 20th at 11:00 AM as a part of a multi-week scientific themed film festival occurring during “National Science Week.” Rock hounding or “fossicking,” as it’s called in Australia, is the hobby of gem, mineral and fossil collecting. The hunt is on in this feature length educational documentary as rock hounds from several states dig up crystals, fossils and lots of fun and adventure. Produced by Explorer Multimedia Inc., the film has been screening at gem & mineral shows across the United States and made its African Continental Premiere in June at the University of Johannesburg in South Africa. The film will continue to tour the film festival circuit as well as the gem & mineral show circuit throughout the year as plans are made for a weekly “RockHounds” TV series. “We have received a lot of interest from rock hounds in Australia,” said producer and geologist Devin Dennie, who also appears in the film, “and we’re glad they have the chance to see it in a great venue alongside other intriguing educational films.” “We are definitely in good company at ‘SCINEMA,’” said the film’s director Todd Kent, “and it’s a great opportunity for further earth science outreach to the general public.” Other Explorer Multimedia Inc. outreach projects include the upcoming the “GeoAmerica” TV series as well as other documentary projects. Explorer Multimedia Inc. is a non-profit 501 (c)(3) corporation responsible for the TV series "North Texas Explorer" and the upcoming "GeoAmerica." For more information consult their websites: http://www.rockhoundsmovie.com and http://wwww.explorermultimedia.org For more information on “SCINEMA ‘05 - Festival of Science Film” please consult their website: http://www.csiro.au/scinema/ _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From geenet2 at mchsi.com Sun Jul 31 16:02:47 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Sun Jul 31 16:02:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] > > etc etc References: <0dd701c59583$be261b70$6602a8c0@remains> Message-ID: <004201c59623$f8351fa0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> That's a Hotmail glitch when you forward a webbased html post to a non html list like us.......I think. Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Schmidt" > what's with the >'s??? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Glenn Wimpee" > To: > Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 9:47 PM > Subject: FW: Re: [Rockhounds] Rockhound's Guide to Montana, Base > Coordinates... > > >> > > >> > > I was very impressed on our trip with JL & Carol Kelly's >> laptop/GPS system >> > > on our trip in western Utah a couple of months ago. From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 31 16:22:11 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sun Jul 31 16:22:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] > > etc etc In-Reply-To: <004201c59623$f8351fa0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <20050731232211.84443.qmail@web51006.mail.yahoo.com> Correct. > is the html code for the > symbol. Jim Daly --- Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > That's a Hotmail glitch when you forward a webbased > html post to a non html > list like us.......I think. > Jeanette > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Schmidt" > > > what's with the >'s??? > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Glenn Wimpee" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 9:47 PM > > Subject: FW: Re: [Rockhounds] Rockhound's Guide to > Montana, Base > > Coordinates... > > > > > >> > > > >> > > I was very impressed on our trip with > JL & Carol Kelly's > >> laptop/GPS system > >> > > on our trip in western Utah a couple of > months ago. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail for Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 31 16:35:53 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sun Jul 31 16:36:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050731233553.87117.qmail@web51006.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks, Axel! You've said what I tried to say, but much more clearly. Jim Daly --- Axel Emmermann wrote: > Oops, I wrote: Any photons of 300 nm in both light > beam ABC'AND light beam > A'B"C' will be > shifted by half their wavelength and they will > extinguish each other. > > Naturally everybody figured out that I meant 600 nm. > Thanks for not shooting > me right away ;-))))) > > And why are the photons extinguishing each other > when shifted 1/2 > wavelength? > > \/\/\/\/\/ imagine a sine wave > > /\/\/\/\/\ another sine wave shifted 1/2 WL > > Imagine the crests having a value of +1 and the > valleys a value of -1. > Move the shifted wave up so that it overlaps the > first wave but don't move > laterally, just up! > > Now you see the overlapping waves as > > XXXXX > > Now draw a line through the crossings of the X's. > That line is the zero energy line. > Each sine represents the energy a photon has at a > certain point in time. > The sum of the energy of the two photons (original + > the on that is shifted > by 1/2 WL) is the mean of the energy of the two > waves: i.o.w. the sum of the > graph above and graph below the zero energy line. > You'll see that this sum > amoubnts to zero all the way along the time line. > > That is why thin layers (of bubble walls) of lava > extinct certain colors of > light and let others pass. > That's what iridescence is about. > > Cheers > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens > Axel Emmermann > Verzonden: zondag 31 juli 2005 13:02 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock > and gem collectors > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava > > > Hi Kitty > > Axel is alive and kicking and also on summer... > eh... what's the opposite of > hibernation? > > Unfortunately most of our MKA members are > oversummering too ;-))) > Summer recess is three months: second Sunday of June > until second Friday of > September. In principle me skip only two meetings > but the actual recess is > three months. > > >From talking to people who should know about his > stuff: > > Interference is the key word. > What Rik says makes much sense, as usual. A summary > of what everybody else > says covers the subject too, except for some minor > details. > I don't see how a metallic film can be deposited on > thin layers of lava, for > example. If that were the case, the layers would act > as dielectric filters > more than iridescent reflectors, wouldn't they? > > Anyway Kitty: > > As a response to your "3 rainbow items": > > >1) a re-stated question: Are we talking about the > surface of the > >lava that I can look at in a specimen, or the > surfaces of cells or > >molecules (or whatever small bit) that the lava is > made of? ...this to > >explain why I see iridescence that appears to be > throughout and inside of > >samples, not just on the outside surface. > > We see the light traveling in part through the wall > of a cell/layer. It > bounces back off the INSIDE surface of that thin > layer and travels back to > us again through the glassy substance. Another part > of the light bounces off > the surface on our side of the layer. The light > waves going through the > layer have traveled a slightly longer path than the > light that reflected > without penetrating inside the layer. > If the layer has a thickness (in the direction that > you view it) that makes > the path of light that travels through it exactly > n.5 wavelengths longer > than the light that reflects off the outer surface, > that wavelength will > disappear. > > n.5 means 1.5 , 2.5, 3.5... probably n < 5 or 6. > > This effect causes interference and extinction of > some wavelengths. The > remaining wavelengths of light are the colors that > we see. Technically: the > color in not inside the layer (like colored glass) > or ON the layer (like > gold or bismuth or copper) but it sprouts from a > dynamic process of > extinction of certain colors from the white light > that falls on the > specimen. You will not see iridescence if you light > the specimens with blue > light or red light or whatever monochromatic light. > > >2)I know there are lots of different names for > >the effects seen in labradorite, microcline, > feldspar, etc. > > With the exception of moonstone, star ruby/sapphire, > most iridescence has > the same origin... > Pyrite, opal, a peacock's tail... > > >I seem to > >recall that interference is a term Bill has used > (he's not around to help > >me at the moment), and that there is a difference > between diffraction > >interference and thin film interference? > > Yes but both are caused by differences in path > length of photons that are n > times half a wavelength of the light color that is > extinguished. > > >Thin film type involves 1 or 2 > >reflecting elements? > > Yes, the inner surface of the glassy bubble and the > outside surface. In > fact, I believe that iridescence in lava is exactly > the same as in a soap > bubble. > > > ______B________ inside surface (IS) > /\ d > __B'/__\B"_____ > /\ /\ outside surface (OS) > / \A' \ > A C C' > > > If the scheme comes through in the intended format, > consider this: > > Light is partially reflected from IS (ABC') as well > as OS (AB'C) > Light that travels A'B"C' is on the path of light > that travels ABC' but is > shifted over the distance B'BB". > If B'BB" is 900 nm long, the light beam ABC'is 300 > nm longer than light beam > A'B"C'. > Any photons of 300 nm in both light beam ABC'AND > light beam A'B"C' will be > shifted by half their wavelength and they will > extinguish each other. > > I hope this clarifies some of the mystery? > > >diffraction is like what's seen on the back of > >beetles and can be in lots of things that reflect > light, like parallel > >lines of little stuff or involve spherules like in > opals? > > I'm not sure of the beetles but yes, basically. > > === message truncated === ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Sun Jul 31 17:49:08 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sun Jul 31 17:49:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Very good, as aways, Axel! And the refraction diagram is a big help in visualizing what is going on. We see similar effects in fiber optic communications waveguides in light outside the visible range. I would add that different wavelengths of light travel through the mediums at different speeds resulting in the prism-like rainbow we see. Keep cool while you antihibernate. :{D And bugs do it too. :{O Glenn Wimpee >From: "Axel Emmermann" axel.emmermann@pandora.be ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Find just what you're after with the new, more precise MSN Search - try it now! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Jul 31 19:49:44 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Jul 31 19:49:53 2005 Subject: OT: anithibernate Re: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava References: Message-ID: <42ED8DC2.77D8@Tomaszewski.net> Glenn Wimpee wrote: > Keep cool while you antihibernate. :{D I suggest the word you want is estivation. From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Sun Jul 31 20:41:31 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sun Jul 31 20:41:38 2005 Subject: OT: anithibernate Re: [Rockhounds] 1930 Rainbow Lava In-Reply-To: <42ED8DC2.77D8@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: That works for me! :{) Glenn >From: Kreigh Tomaszewski <Kreigh@tomaszewski.net> > >Glenn Wimpee wrote: > > Keep cool while you antihibernate. :{D > >I suggest the word you want is estivation. ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Download today's top songs at MSN Music from artists like U2, Eminem, & Kelly Clarkson ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From kahako at verizon.net Sun Jul 31 21:31:42 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Jul 31 21:31:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: OT: anithibernate In-Reply-To: <42ED8DC2.77D8@Tomaszewski.net> References: <42ED8DC2.77D8@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050731182645.02622760@incoming.verizon.net> >I suggest the word you want is estivation. Where did you get that word? Did you make it up? I can't find it in a dictionary. Sounds good, but am I missing something? Aloha, Kitty From bobl at peaktopeak.com Sun Jul 31 21:43:21 2005 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Sun Jul 31 21:43:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] PRESS RELEASE: RockHounds: The Movie Premieres atAustralian Film Festival In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200508010443.j714hLDj011165@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Hey Todd, Can you tell us more about the upcoming "RockHounds" and "GeoAmerica" TV series? Thanks, Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of RockHounds: The Movie Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 4:25 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] PRESS RELEASE: RockHounds: The Movie Premieres atAustralian Film Festival See press release below. Thanks, Todd Kent Director/Producer "RockHounds: The Movie" http://www.rockhoundsmovie.com "RockHounds: The Movie" Film Festival Premiere in the Land Down Under For Immediate Release (hi res pictures available) Crikey! "RockHounds: The Movie" will make its film festival debut as an official selection of "SCINEMA '05 - Festival of Science Film." The screening will take place at the Discovery Centre in Canberra, Australia on August 20th at 11:00 AM as a part of a multi-week scientific themed film festival occurring during "National Science Week." Rock hounding or "fossicking," as it's called in Australia, is the hobby of gem, mineral and fossil collecting. The hunt is on in this feature length educational documentary as rock hounds from several states dig up crystals, fossils and lots of fun and adventure. Produced by Explorer Multimedia Inc., the film has been screening at gem & mineral shows across the United States and made its African Continental Premiere in June at the University of Johannesburg in South Africa. The film will continue to tour the film festival circuit as well as the gem & mineral show circuit throughout the year as plans are made for a weekly "RockHounds" TV series. "We have received a lot of interest from rock hounds in Australia," said producer and geologist Devin Dennie, who also appears in the film, "and we're glad they have the chance to see it in a great venue alongside other intriguing educational films." "We are definitely in good company at 'SCINEMA,'" said the film's director Todd Kent, "and it's a great opportunity for further earth science outreach to the general public." Other Explorer Multimedia Inc. outreach projects include the upcoming the "GeoAmerica" TV series as well as other documentary projects. Explorer Multimedia Inc. is a non-profit 501 (c)(3) corporation responsible for the TV series "North Texas Explorer" and the upcoming "GeoAmerica." For more information consult their websites: http://www.rockhoundsmovie.com and http://wwww.explorermultimedia.org For more information on "SCINEMA '05 - Festival of Science Film" please consult their website: http://www.csiro.au/scinema/ _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfeeR Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jaybates at rcn.com Sun Jul 31 22:07:41 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sun Jul 31 22:05:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: OT: anithibernate References: <42ED8DC2.77D8@Tomaszewski.net> <6.2.1.2.0.20050731182645.02622760@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <000801c59656$f1dbe0c0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> It's in my dictionary, but it doesn't mean antihibernate. In zoological terms it means to spend the summer in a torpid condition. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 9:31 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: OT: anithibernate > > >I suggest the word you want is estivation. > > Where did you get that word? Did you make it up? I can't find it in a > dictionary. Sounds good, but am I missing something? > > Aloha, Kitty > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release Date: 12/26/04 > > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release Date: 12/26/04 From Paintricks at aol.com Sun Jul 31 22:18:42 2005 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Sun Jul 31 22:18:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] valuing geodes question? Message-ID: <1a6.3c34516a.301f0ab2@aol.com> In a message dated 7/31/2005 4:03:37 PM Central Standard Time, kadok@infowest.com writes: Sounds like septarian nodules to me. Are those things found in the US? >They are from North East Texas. In the cretaceous layer 30 feet down. Please Explain the "septarian" nodules. Thanks, Kevin Yes, we definitely do have septarian nodules in the U. S. Some really neat ones in Utah not far from here. They are sort of like geodes, but have calcite (often dogtooth) xls in them. Yep, That's what these are. Thanks for the info on them. Kevin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From obsidianarts at charter.net Wed Jul 27 18:14:44 2005 From: obsidianarts at charter.net (Tony Stanfield) Date: Mon Aug 1 17:43:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] davis creek obsidian Message-ID: <42E83184.9060502@charter.net> I have seen a post where you mention directions and maps of davis creek on your site. I could not find the site with the directions. Any help you could provide would be appreciated. I have only been there once, a few years back, and I had a detailed map, but I can not find it anywhere. Thank you, Tony From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sat Jul 30 03:50:31 2005 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Tue Aug 9 15:52:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Who are you Peter Nielson? References: <20050807110329.n3u0yz60sk8wcsk4@my4.dal.ca><000401c59ca5$26f11d80$8db523d0@eoni.com> <42F931B1.3094@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <004601c594f4$8db297f0$12b4010a@warren> Actually, Kreigh, weirdly enough, Pete's messages show an attachment paperclip in my Outlook Express as well. Very strange, because it doesn't allow you to open or save the attachment, just shows the paperclip. And if you look at the source of the message, there is indeed some binary there. I think it is just an artifact of the mime stripping routine for the list. Julie > Ann, > > If the message came from the list it did not have any attachments > because the list server software removes all attachments. The List has > never allowed attachments. > > It is much more likely someone on the list is virus infected and the > list address was spoofed. > > Kreigh >